# AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread Part IV



## Platt

*Part I
Part II*
*Part III*​*Keep this on topic. Any off topic posts directed at posters will result in you being removed from the thread.*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

I can’t remember if I commented on it, but this week’s number wasn’t good. I’ll maybe chalk it up to a weak anniversary show lowering interest for this week, but next week will be interesting. This week’s show was good, but there are already spoilers out for next week (if those in other thread were accurate). That may have a slight negative impact. Not sure tbh. I’ll predict a little better next week, and if the show is quality stuff then I think they’ll be back over 800k the week after.


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> The thread that keeps on giving
> 
> lets all make a ‘no concern trolling‘ pact?


And the first post is spam. Get out of here, Cattle. 



#BadNewsSanta said:


> I can’t remember if I commented on it, but this week’s number wasn’t good. I’ll maybe chalk it up to a weak anniversary show lowering interest for this week, but next week will be interesting. This week’s show was good, but there are already spoilers out for next week (if those in other thread were accurate). That may have a slight negative impact. Not sure tbh. I’ll predict a little better next week, and if the show is quality stuff then I think they’ll be back over 800k the week after.


I’m fascinated by next week’s rating. They’re not going to be happy if it goes down (obviously), but they took some chances on some “attention grabbing” shit.

I’m not sure if being taped is going to hurt them, to be honest. The base is too loyal right now. And the way modern wrestling works, being live doesn’t seem to be as important for them. I think this has proven true for WWE too, where their taped shows don’t now drop-off like they used to.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Yeah, to touch on the loyalty thing I think it'll be at least another 12 months of bad shows before significant drop off occurs.


----------



## omaroo

If shows continue to be poor over the next couple of years you can expect them to go below 500k easy.


----------



## The Wood

That measure of time is one of the hardest things to call. And so many factors can effect it. Like, say Jericho blows up and JR leaves, a scandal comes out about a top talent or the EVPs go sideways. When the “pristine” image of the company goes, the extreme loyalty could die off REALLY quickly. But if things keep chugging along as are, when does this thing start to feel like “Okay, this is not going to get better” and start turning people off?


----------



## Bubbly

Do we know which segments drew what yet? I'm curious after this week.


----------



## KingofKings1524

The Wood said:


> That measure of time is one of the hardest things to call. And so many factors can effect it. Like, say Jericho blows up and JR leaves, a scandal comes out about a top talent or the EVPs go sideways. When the “pristine” image of the company goes, the extreme loyalty could die off REALLY quickly. But if things keep chugging along as are, when does this thing start to feel like “Okay, this is not going to get better” and start turning people off?


It hasn’t turned you or any of the other usual suspects off yet. And let’s face it, if AEW died, what would you hate post about 8-900 times a month?


----------



## The Wood

KingofKings1524 said:


> It hasn’t turned you or any of the other usual suspects off yet. And let’s face it, if AEW died, what would you hate post about 8-900 times a month?


Oh no, they’ve completely lost me. I don’t give that promotion a cent. The whole “See you next week!” thing was really cute when people said that about the WWE a few years ago too.

I’d probably turn most of my attention back to WWE or try and find an outlet to really explore classic wrestling.


----------



## Kentucky34

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah, to touch on the loyalty thing I think it'll be at least another 12 months of bad shows before significant drop off occurs.


I agree. 

I think 500-600k viewers will be the new normal for AEW viewership in a few months time.


----------



## 3venflow

Bubbly said:


> Do we know which segments drew what yet? I'm curious after this week.


It's in the old thread somewhere. Pentagon vs. Fenix did the best numbers if I remember correctly.


----------



## Klitschko

From what I remember the Jericho/MJF segment drew the least amount of viewers Bubbly. Like 630k or something close to that.


----------



## The Wood

Then Jericho went on Twitter and lied about the minute-to-minutes being higher, completely shitting on everyone else.

(Yeah, it’s his “gimmick” and he can say he doesn’t “mean” it. But it’s still shitty and embarrassing for your top heel to do.)


----------



## fabi1982

The Wood said:


> Then Jericho went on Twitter and lied about the minute-to-minutes being higher, completely shitting on everyone else.
> 
> (Yeah, it’s his “gimmick” and he can say he doesn’t “mean” it. But it’s still shitty and embarrassing for your top heel to do.)


I thought I would never have to see that Jericho has to defend himself on Twitter. Why do this? Whats the point? People reading this watched it anyways, sad state of affairs:


----------



## The Wood

I seriously think some people just reach an age where what they’ve done and who they are doesn’t match up with who they want to be.

Jericho obviously cares about what people think of him. And that’s fine. Some people do and some people don’t. He obviously does, because he drunk tweets people who don’t like his work offering them jobs.

He wants people to like him. The wrestling fans, Dave Meltzer, the wrestling world. That’s why his feathers get so ruffled when someone doesn’t.

That and he never made it in show business. Fozzy has always been seen as a bit of a joke (sorry to people who like them), and all his other forays have kind of stopped really short.

It’s a mid-life crisis, basically. Vanity and self-consciousness colliding.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Anyways.

I'm here for more AEW success!


----------



## La Parka

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Anyways.
> 
> I'm here for more AEW success!


im here for the singin


----------



## imthegame19

So as I been saying for weeks it's very tough for shows to do big viewership numbers on cable networks. That don't have big consistent viewership numbers or aren't use to watching that programming channel for many years. 


Well Smackdown on FS1 this week did 881,000 and .25 in 18 to 49 not going head to head with another wrestling show. You take away the bump WWE gets from being on USA for so many years. With those same casual fans who been watching wrestling for so many years. Or take them off major network that everything in prime time does near 2 million people. Well AEW numbers don't look so bad lol.


I didn't make this post to get this thread haywire again. Just posting some facts on the ratings and why they are the way they are. You put Smackdown on FS1 weekly the numbers are very close to AEW and they lose in demos. For all the reasons I mentioned above. End of discussion.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

imthegame19 said:


> So as I been saying for weeks it's very tough for shows to do big viewership numbers on cable networks. That don't have big consistent viewership numbers or aren't use to watching that programming channel for many years.
> 
> 
> Well Smackdown on FS1 this week did 881,000 and .25 in 18 to 49 not going head to head with another wrestling show. You take away the bump WWE gets from being on USA for so many years. With those same casual fans who been watching wrestling for so many years. Or take them off major network that everything in prime time does near 2 million people. Well AEW numbers don't look so bad lol.
> 
> 
> I didn't make this post to get this thread haywire again. Just posting some facts on the ratings and why they are the way they are. You put Smackdown on FS1 weekly the numbers are very close to AEW and they lose in demos. For all the reasons I mentioned above. End of discussion.


Stop being so sensible pal, it's frowned upon here. 

I think Dynamite's numbers have been consistently good (not great but far from bad) if you ignore the peak of the first few weeks and trough of the early pandemic era. It would be good to see some growth, getting to a million regularly would be an impressive start, but I can't see that without audiences and with competition. Hopefully 2021 gives them a better opportunity to do so.


----------



## The Wood

imthegame19 said:


> So as I been saying for weeks it's very tough for shows to do big viewership numbers on cable networks. That don't have big consistent viewership numbers or aren't use to watching that programming channel for many years.
> 
> 
> Well Smackdown on FS1 this week did 881,000 and .25 in 18 to 49 not going head to head with another wrestling show. You take away the bump WWE gets from being on USA for so many years. With those same casual fans who been watching wrestling for so many years. Or take them off major network that everything in prime time does near 2 million people. Well AEW numbers don't look so bad lol.
> 
> 
> I didn't make this post to get this thread haywire again. Just posting some facts on the ratings and why they are the way they are. You put Smackdown on FS1 weekly the numbers are very close to AEW and they lose in demos. For all the reasons I mentioned above. End of discussion.


These aren’t really “facts.” You don’t get to end the discussion. It’s frustrating that people go into tirades about how I (and possibly some others perceived to think like me) allegedly act like our opinions are facts. Here you have someone _flat-out_ saying that what they think is a fact.

The average show on FS1 does 319k viewers. SmackDown did ALMOST TRIPLE that. On a channel it isn’t usually on, from a network whose viewers don’t necessarily have cable.

Those are “facts.” What’s wrong with those facts? When presented, they don’t make your opinion look so good, do they?

I don’t get why people think that longevity on television breeds success. Is there any evidence to support this suggestion at all? Raw has fun off MILLIONS of viewers. No one is obligated to watch it. It also had millions of viewers to run off, something AEW doesn’t have. It’s not necessarily going to get the chance to get so stale even if you want to argue that people are going to be robots programmed to stick with it in 27 years



Pentagon Senior said:


> Stop being so sensible pal, it's frowned upon here.
> 
> I think Dynamite's numbers have been consistently good (not great but far from bad) if you ignore the peak of the first few weeks and trough of the early pandemic era. It would be good to see some growth, getting to a million regularly would be an impressive start, but I can't see that without audiences and with competition. Hopefully 2021 gives them a better opportunity to do so.


The thing is, WWE are not going to let them go unopposed. Raw is too valuable to USA and WWE makes too much money to not be able to afford keeping that slot. They can afford to give NXT away for nothing (hypothetically) which makes them better value for the slot than Dynamite is to TNT.

If TNT decides to move Dynamite, the WWE can just move NXT or put another show opposite it. The WWE will know who attracts the best “demos” on their roster. You’ll have your Matt Riddle and Angel Garza on there. As well as likely some big stars that appeal to the hardcore fan — Daniel Bryan, Rey Mysterio, Kevin Owens, Sami Zayn. They’ll pop Roman on a few shows and get Brock and Ronda if they can.

Dynamite is toast in that situation. I know people want to compare 881k on FS1 and think it has a chance, but if they do just double USA’s average, they’ll be getting 2.5 million against Dynamite those first weeks. It seems to have a similar demo rating to Dynamite. It could probably get a 0.7 or something against Dynamite and it’s usual 750k/0.3. It won’t be a pretty story.

I don’t really see a clear path up for AEW. This is why they needed to be big and good out the gate. Their best advantage was going to be providing content that the WWE were just not going to, and galvanising the exhausted wrestling fan. Many fans seem exhausted _by_ them now (whether or not you agree with them or not, it’s hard to deny that there are lots of valid criticisms going around), and the content is getting similar to the point Mike Semperveve is going on Observer Radio and basically saying “This wrestling probably isn’t for everyone, it isn’t going to change, so please stop criticising it because it makes people sad.”


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> These aren’t really “facts.” You don’t get to end the discussion. It’s frustrating that people go into tirades about how I (and possibly some others perceived to think like me) allegedly act like our opinions are facts. Here you have someone _flat-out_ saying that what they think is a fact.
> 
> The average show on FS1 does 319k viewers. SmackDown did ALMOST TRIPLE that. On a channel it isn’t usually on, from a network whose viewers don’t necessarily have cable.
> 
> Those are “facts.” What’s wrong with those facts? When presented, they don’t make your opinion look so good, do they?
> 
> I don’t get why people think that longevity on television breeds success. Is there any evidence to support this suggestion at all? Raw has fun off MILLIONS of viewers. No one is obligated to watch it. It also had millions of viewers to run off, something AEW doesn’t have. It’s not necessarily going to get the chance to get so stale even if you want to argue that people are going to be robots programmed to stick with it in 27 years
> 
> 
> 
> The thing is, WWE are not going to let them go unopposed. Raw is too valuable to USA and WWE makes too much money to not be able to afford keeping that slot. They can afford to give NXT away for nothing (hypothetically) which makes them better value for the slot than Dynamite is to TNT.
> 
> If TNT decides to move Dynamite, the WWE can just move NXT or put another show opposite it. The WWE will know who attracts the best “demos” on their roster. You’ll have your Matt Riddle and Angel Garza on there. As well as likely some big stars that appeal to the hardcore fan — Daniel Bryan, Rey Mysterio, Kevin Owens, Sami Zayn. They’ll pop Roman on a few shows and get Brock and Ronda if they can.
> 
> Dynamite is toast in that situation. I know people want to compare 881k on FS1 and think it has a chance, but if they do just double USA’s average, they’ll be getting 2.5 million against Dynamite those first weeks. It seems to have a similar demo rating to Dynamite. It could probably get a 0.7 or something against Dynamite and it’s usual 750k/0.3. It won’t be a pretty story.
> 
> I don’t really see a clear path up for AEW. This is why they needed to be big and good out the gate. Their best advantage was going to be providing content that the WWE were just not going to, and galvanising the exhausted wrestling fan. Many fans seem exhausted _by_ them now (whether or not you agree with them or not, it’s hard to deny that there are lots of valid criticisms going around), and the content is getting similar to the point Mike Semperveve is going on Observer Radio and basically saying “This wrestling probably isn’t for everyone, it isn’t going to change, so please stop criticising it because it makes people sad.”


I have no idea if they'll ever be unopposed but getting crowds back could be a nice little boost. The numbers are already good though in my view and have improved since the slump at the beginning of the no crowd era, which is a good sign. 

No offence but I don't put much credence in your stance that AEW would 'be toast'. I've been reading the forum for a while and seen you and others repeatedly make such claims without merit. NXT has already tried many tricks without long lasting success. I'm not claiming the opposite either, just don't buy into your predictably negative prognosis. Let's wait and see.


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> I have no idea if they'll ever be unopposed but getting crowds back could be a nice little boost. The numbers are already good though in my view and have improved since the slump at the beginning of the no crowd era, which is a good sign.
> 
> No offence but I don't put much credence in your stance that AEW would 'be toast'. I've been reading the forum for a while and seen you and others repeatedly make such claims without merit. NXT has already tried many tricks without long lasting success. I'm not claiming the opposite either, just don't buy into your predictably negative prognosis. Let's wait and see.


It’s only negative if you are rooting for this version of AEW to succeed. Keep telling people, not a negative person. Hell, I don’t even value positivity that much, and wish I wasn’t so optimistic sometimes (it’s the hope that kills ya).

I just cannot see why this audience would grow with even stiffer competition. I think their best chance for growth is for an industry-wide boom. Something else to come along, actually make WWE proper sweat and bring more foot traffic in for all. AEW would benefit like an indy show on WrestleMania weekend.


----------



## Kentucky34

AEW has no mega stars and no real direction. That is why their viewership figures are tumbling. 

They need a FOTC but who could that be? Moxley? Not good enough in the ring and the audience lose interest in him. Jericho? Too old. Omega? Overrated. Orange Cassidy? Oh please.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> It’s only negative if you are rooting for this version of AEW to succeed. Keep telling people, not a negative person. Hell, I don’t even value positivity that much, and wish I wasn’t so optimistic sometimes (it’s the hope that kills ya).
> 
> I just cannot see why this audience would grow with even stiffer competition. I think their best chance for growth is for an industry-wide boom. Something else to come along, actually make WWE proper sweat and bring more foot traffic in for all. AEW would benefit like an indy show on WrestleMania weekend.


That's fair enough, I'm just not that hung up about it to be honest. AEW is watchable for me whereas I'm not interested in any other promotion. There's plenty I would change, including less goofiness, but there's also plenty I like about it. I hope it improves but whilst I enjoy it I'll keep watching, otherwise I'll tune out.

AEW ain't taking over the industry anytime soon but I think they're doing just fine for the moment. I have no inclination to make future predictions I'm just happy to watch it play out.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Kentucky34 said:


> AEW has no mega stars and no real direction. That is why their viewership figures are tumbling.
> 
> They need a FOTC but who could that be? Moxley? Not good enough in the ring and the audience lose interest in him. Jericho? Too old. Omega? Overrated. Orange Cassidy? Oh please.


They could have done a better job of building main event talent outside of Mox to be fair...but 'That is why their viewership figures are tumbling' is more than a stretch.


----------



## 3venflow

Kentucky34 said:


> AEW has no mega stars and no real direction. That is why their viewership figures are tumbling.
> 
> They need a FOTC but who could that be? Moxley? Not good enough in the ring and the audience lose interest in him. Jericho? Too old. Omega? Overrated. Orange Cassidy? Oh please.


They are not tumbling, they are consistent. They are currently better than they were earlier in the year and similar to what they were a year ago. The first three episodes hit a million, then it dropped to a range of ratings that are not dissimilar to now on average.

The 10/30/19 edition of Dynamite, which I guess is the closest to an anniversary of tomorrow's show, drew 759,000 with a 0.33 demo.

You can definitely argue that the fan base isn't growing, but it's not really shrinking either. Some weeks it does 750k, then it does 850k. As recently as September, they hit 1 million for the first time since the third episode, due to NXT not being on I think.

There was always going to be a spike for the 'pilot' and follow ups, very few shows except GOAT tier ones can hold their first episode viewership.

The best way to describe AEW is stable and fine, but unspectacular in the ratings field. If they want to grow, they need to think about how. But if they want to stay how they are, it seems to be perfectly sustainable. Too much hyperbole on this forum sometimes.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Kentucky34 said:


> AEW has no mega stars and no real direction. That is why their viewership figures are tumbling.
> 
> They need a FOTC but who could that be? Moxley? Not good enough in the ring and the audience lose interest in him. Jericho? Too old. Omega? Overrated. Orange Cassidy? Oh please.












Could've been this bloke.


----------



## The Wood

Raw’s ratings were considered stable for the longest time.

I feel like I’ve been saying this a lot lately, but it bears repeating: The actual number isn’t important as the revenue they take in for TNT. That’s the bottom-line.

Being TV-14 and splitting ad revenue means they are going to be less valuable than a PG show with the same rating that splits the ad revenue.

We don’t really know what 800k/0.3 means to TNT. No matter what anyone tells us, or how Showbuzz ranks it. If they’re disappointing in the ad sales, then the number takes on a new context.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Kentucky34 said:


> AEW has no mega stars and no real direction. That is why their viewership figures are tumbling.
> 
> They need a FOTC but who could that be? Moxley? Not good enough in the ring and the audience lose interest in him. Jericho? Too old. Omega? Overrated. Orange Cassidy? Oh please.


Except they aren't tumbling. They aren't growing but they aren't decreasing rapidly like Raw & Smackdown are either. 

Raw 10/29/2018: 2,471,000 viewers - .88 demo
Raw 10/28/2019: 2,133,000 viewers - .72 demo
Raw 10/26/2020: 1,732,000 viewers - .50 demo

AEW 10/30/2019: 759,000 viewers - .33 demo
AEW 10/28/2020: 

SDN 11/1/2019: 2,605,000 viewers - .8 demo
SDN 10/30/2020:

We will see what Dynamite and Smackdown draw this week but Raw was down 18.8% in viewership and 30.6% in the demo compared to this week in 2019. AEW would need to run 616,308 viewers - .23 demo tonight in order to match Raw's tumble, highly unlikely.

If you go back two years and compared 10/29/2018 to 10/26/2020, Raw is down 739,000 viewers (30%) and down a staggering 43% in the demo, from .88 to .50. 

So, no, AEW is not the one with tumbling ratings. And two more years of losses equal to the last two years and Dynamite v Raw could actually become a real contest by the end of 2022/start of 2023.

Crazy.


----------



## The Wood

TKO Wrestling said:


> Except they aren't tumbling. They aren't growing but they aren't decreasing rapidly like Raw & Smackdown are either.
> 
> Raw 10/29/2018: 2,471,000 viewers - .88 demo
> Raw 10/28/2019: 2,133,000 viewers - .72 demo
> Raw 10/26/2020: 1,732,000 viewers - .50 demo
> 
> AEW 10/30/2019: 759,000 viewers - .33 demo
> AEW 10/28/2020:
> 
> SDN 11/1/2019: 2,605,000 viewers - .8 demo
> SDN 10/30/2020:
> 
> We will see what Dynamite and Smackdown draw this week but Raw was down 18.8% in viewership and 30.6% in the demo compared to this week in 2019. AEW would need to run 616,308 viewers - .23 demo tonight in order to match Raw's tumble, highly unlikely.
> 
> If you go back two years and compared 10/29/2018 to 10/26/2020, Raw is down 739,000 viewers (30%) and down a staggering 43% in the demo, from .88 to .50.
> 
> So, no, AEW is not the one with tumbling ratings. And two more years of losses equal to the last two years and Dynamite v Raw could actually become a real contest by the end of 2022/start of 2023.
> 
> Crazy.


616k with 0.23 demo looks like the low end of normal for AEW to me. I’m sure they’ve done ratings similar to that.

Hasn’t SmackDown been up since Roman Reigns has been back too? I think this idea that AEW is the sustainable wrestling is a bit of a reach.


----------



## Klitschko

The Wood said:


> 616k with 0.23 demo looks like the low end of normal for AEW to me. I’m sure they’ve done ratings similar to that.
> 
> Hasn’t SmackDown been up since Roman Reigns has been back too? I think this idea that AEW is the sustainable wrestling is a bit of a reach.


I think Smackdown was getting 1.7-1.9 for a few weeks and then after Roman came back they have been over 2.0 each week. Went up as high as 2.3 I think.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Klitschko said:


> I think Smackdown was getting 1.7-1.9 for a few weeks and then after Roman came back they have been over 2.0 each week. Went up as high as 2.3 I think.


They bumped some but then came back down. They are comfortably between 2-2.2 right now, 2,124,000 the last one that counts. Only idiots compare the FS1 rating to anything. It is like the one time when AEW was on Tru last year, silly to compare to TNT.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The Wood said:


> 616k with 0.23 demo looks like the low end of normal for AEW to me. I’m sure they’ve done ratings similar to that.
> 
> Hasn’t SmackDown been up since Roman Reigns has been back too? I think this idea that AEW is the sustainable wrestling is a bit of a reach.


Both would be record lows for Dynamite, not counting the Late Night "Ben Carter" Tuesday Dynamite that did 584/.25. It is close to impossible for AEW to dip that low this week.


----------



## The Wood

Klitschko said:


> I think Smackdown was getting 1.7-1.9 for a few weeks and then after Roman came back they have been over 2.0 each week. Went up as high as 2.3 I think.


That’s what I thought too. So SmackDown is doing well. Kind of dismisses the idea that it is only AEW that can keep things up.

Raw would probably do a lot better if it weren’t 3 hours (which is their design), but you can’t sell the idea that AEW is somehow better because it isn’t dropping if SmackDown isn’t dropping either.


----------



## Klitschko

Yea with RAW usually their hour 1 and 2 are pretty consistent with each other. Every week its the third hour that drops them down by 100-200k viewers from what I have noticed. 3 hours is just too long.


----------



## omaroo

Smackdown is doing pretty good ratings wise and cant see them dropping below 2 mil either

Raw on the other may drop close to 1.5 mil over time with how long the show as and being weaker than smackdown.

AEW though can honestly dropping to around 500k in 6 months or so.


----------



## DaSlacker

The Wood said:


> Raw’s ratings were considered stable for the longest time.
> 
> I feel like I’ve been saying this a lot lately, but it bears repeating: The actual number isn’t important as the revenue they take in for TNT. That’s the bottom-line.
> 
> Being TV-14 and splitting ad revenue means they are going to be less valuable than a PG show with the same rating that splits the ad revenue.
> 
> We don’t really know what 800k/0.3 means to TNT. No matter what anyone tells us, or how Showbuzz ranks it. If they’re disappointing in the ad sales, then the number takes on a new context.


AEW Dynamite could switch to PG and nobody would notice because like most modern wrestling it's very tame and politically correct. Only difference would be either less blading or the camera not lingering on the blood.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Halloween Havoc trending higher than NXT has trended in months. I could see AEW getting a loss tonight, maybe even their first demo loss since December.


----------



## The Wood

Another thing to keep in mind when it comes to NXT and their potential drawing power as is (without stars and third tier programming), is that they have access to their WWE Network numbers even though we don’t. And international numbers.

When someone like Bryan Alvarez tries to swindle you into thinking that the board or TV networks aren’t going to have faith in Triple H if Vince McMahon dies because of those demos (he actually did this), keep in mind that he is deliberately only giving you a piece of the puzzle. The WWE have plenty of other metrics with which to sell NXT and the restrained job Triple H has done with it.

For example, I do wonder what taking it off the Network would do for their numbers. Probably not a massive difference, but if you don’t think there are a bunch of people in that 18-49 demo that use NXT, the Takeovers and the classic wrestling to justify their $9.99 a month, then I don’t know what to tell you.

Marathon not a sprint.


----------



## DaSlacker

TKO Wrestling said:


> Halloween Havoc trending higher than NXT has trended in months. I could see AEW getting a loss tonight, maybe even their first demo loss since December.


Tony Khan probably kicking himself for not getting there first and anouncing a big Halloween Madness special before HHH brought back HH. They'd already revived Great American Bash so he should have realized.


----------



## NathanMayberry

TKO Wrestling said:


> Except they aren't tumbling. They aren't growing but they aren't decreasing rapidly like Raw & Smackdown are either.
> 
> Raw 10/29/2018: 2,471,000 viewers - .88 demo
> Raw 10/28/2019: 2,133,000 viewers - .72 demo
> Raw 10/26/2020: 1,732,000 viewers - .50 demo
> 
> AEW 10/30/2019: 759,000 viewers - .33 demo
> AEW 10/28/2020:
> 
> SDN 11/1/2019: 2,605,000 viewers - .8 demo
> SDN 10/30/2020:
> 
> We will see what Dynamite and Smackdown draw this week but Raw was down 18.8% in viewership and 30.6% in the demo compared to this week in 2019. AEW would need to run 616,308 viewers - .23 demo tonight in order to match Raw's tumble, highly unlikely.
> 
> If you go back two years and compared 10/29/2018 to 10/26/2020, Raw is down 739,000 viewers (30%) and down a staggering 43% in the demo, from .88 to .50.
> 
> So, no, AEW is not the one with tumbling ratings. And two more years of losses equal to the last two years and Dynamite v Raw could actually become a real contest by the end of 2022/start of 2023.
> 
> Crazy.


This is intellectual prostitution at its finest.

Why did you choose this week? And not 10/2? Or 10/14? What exactly is notable about this week to make it be the week to decide to use Y-O-Y, other than it being the first week that AEW can use Y-O-Y that doesn't show Dynamite losing hundreds of thousands of viewers?


----------



## TKO Wrestling

NathanMayberry said:


> This is intellectual prostitution at its finest.
> 
> Why did you choose this week? And not 10/2? Or 10/14? What exactly is notable about this week to make it be the week to decide to use Y-O-Y, other than it being the first week that AEW can use Y-O-Y that doesn't show Dynamite losing hundreds of thousands of viewers?


Because it is this week? He just made the post yesterday.


----------



## bdon

If this is the end of AEW’s dominance, then they can blame Jericho and Cody. The prior 3-5 weeks had been cringe-worthy stupid shit from both guys.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Aew : 781k

Nxt: 876k.


----------



## One Shed

RainmakerV2 said:


> Aew : 781k
> 
> Nxt: 876k.


Oh wow


----------



## fabi1982

Yauiiii Wauiii


----------



## RainmakerV2

Halloween Havoc was awesome and NXT had an overrun, so not surprising.


----------



## Erik.

People have been wanting Halloween Havoc back for 2 decades. I am not surprised it done well.

Good number for both.

That's the most people have watched wrestling on a Wednesday combined since the 5th August, nearly 6 months ago.


----------



## Prosper

Congrats to NXT, I heard the Halloween TV special was pretty good and they also had that 10 minute overrun.

Hopefully Dynamites numbers are back up for both the Full Gear go home and fall out shows.

AEW demo .32 and NXT .25, glad to see that they improved there even though their overall was lower this week.


----------



## The Wood

WWE knows how to step on it when they want to. Good for them.

NXT actually drew viewers, 1.65 between the two shows. AEW didn’t crash and burn like they deserved to after that crap last week. But they lost pretty handedly.


----------



## Joe Gill

what a horrible number... but can you blame people? every episode of dynamite is predictable as hell... we all knew omega, page, kingston, cody were going to win. there are never any major swerves.. just very slow builds that fizzle out over time because people lose interest. must see tv is not about having solid 15 minutes matches... its drama filled action with brawls and backstabbing. khan and company are clueless on how to book tv... they are booking like an indy show.


----------



## The Wood

Just waiting for Jericho to talk about how one second of whatever segment he was on was actually watched by the Queen.


----------



## qntntgood

RainmakerV2 said:


> Aew : 781k
> 
> Nxt: 876k.


No surprise here,this is what happens when share the same audience and refuse to grow.and they deserve every bit, of this ass kicking.


----------



## qntntgood

Joe Gill said:


> what a horrible number... but can you blame people? every episode of dynamite is predictable as hell... we all knew omega, page, kingston, cody were going to win. there are never any major swerves.. just very slow builds that fizzle out over time because people lose interest. must see tv is not about having solid 15 minutes matches... its drama filled action with brawls and backstabbing. khan and company are clueless on how to book tv... they are booking like an indy show.


Preach,but they keep listen to Dave meltzer.


----------



## The Wood

It’s going to get harder and harder for AEW to swing the numbers back around, as they’re losing freshness and sympathy. It’ll be interesting to see what happens next week.


----------



## P Thriller

I'm very interested to see the number in the main events. Last time Omega went head to head against Io Shirai, NXT won pretty handily. Granted, that was Io Shirai vs. Sasha Banks. If Io beat Omega again this week with Omega facing Pentagon it would be an interesting talking point. I've always questioned how much a of a draw Omega really is personally, not that I don't think he is great or anything. I also love seeing the women continue to draw very good numbers in main events.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Well deserved for shitting the bed for 2 months.


----------



## Kentucky34

NXT was the much better show.


----------



## Hephaesteus

To be fair, AEW was a taped show going up against a special edition of NXT. That being said, they still shouldnt be losing to them at this point


----------



## RainmakerV2

Joe Gill said:


> what a horrible number... but can you blame people? every episode of dynamite is predictable as hell... we all knew omega, page, kingston, cody were going to win. there are never any major swerves.. just very slow builds that fizzle out over time because people lose interest. must see tv is not about having solid 15 minutes matches... its drama filled action with brawls and backstabbing. khan and company are clueless on how to book tv... they are booking like an indy show.


Yup. Theres really no reason to watch live unless you wanna rate wrestling matches. Nothing ever happens. Plus, they could stand to change up the staging and set every now and then. I guarantee a lot of people tuned into Halloween Havoc just to see the atmosphere and the set and the PUMPKIN!! Dalys place is feeling very samey and stale.


----------



## Alright_Mate

NXT had their best show in months, apart from the Lumis vs Grimes bizarre cinematic mess, they absolutely nailed Halloween Havoc.

AEW have hit a lull and with Full Gear round the corner, they should be doing better but the build to it has been bang average.


----------



## rbl85

Hephaesteus said:


> To be fair, AEW was a taped show going up against a special edition of NXT. That being said, they still shouldnt be losing to them at this point


Of course they can "lose" against NXT in certain conditions (special shows, etc)

Also it's not a bad number for AEW they did better than last week.

Now maybe AEW could have done an halloween type show but at the end of the day it was a regular AEW show against a NXT PPV worthy show both on paper and in. action.

Also some of you need to stop with the overreaction XD

If AEW did a special episode like NXT did and blew NXT away you would have said "look they need to make special episode to win"....come on your not that dumb.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

0.32 - higher than last week

will be smelling 0.36 again soon enough


----------



## rbl85

When AEW does more than 800K next week and NXT goes back to low 700K the same people trolling today will find every excuses to explain why it's bad from AEW XD


----------



## The Wood

P Thriller said:


> I'm very interested to see the number in the main events. Last time Omega went head to head against Io Shirai, NXT won pretty handily. Granted, that was Io Shirai vs. Sasha Banks. If Io beat Omega again this week with Omega facing Pentagon it would be an interesting talking point. I've always questioned how much a of a draw Omega really is personally, not that I don't think he is great or anything. I also love seeing the women continue to draw very good numbers in main events.


I personally don’t think he’s a draw at all. Not as many people have seen the Omega/Okada matches as some would think. Outside that, his work has got major holes in it. Joe Average is going to flip over, think “Fake!” and then flip onto something else.


----------



## ShadowCounter

rbl85 said:


> Of course they can "lose" against NXT in certain conditions (special shows, etc)
> 
> Also it's not a bad number for AEW they did better than last week.
> 
> Now maybe AEW could have done an halloween type show but at the end of the day it was a regular AEW show against a NXT PPV worthy show both on paper and in. action.
> 
> Also some of you need to stop with the overreaction XD
> 
> If AEW did a special episode like NXT did and blew NXT away you would have said "look they need to make special episode to win"....come on your not that dumb.



Right? This was basically a NXT PPV type show against a taped AEW show. The crowing from the AEW haters is hilarious. Just cue the circus music cause the clowns are out in full. Now watch them disappear when AEW comfortably wins again next week.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> When AEW does more than 800K next week and NXT goes back to low 700K the same people trolling today will find every excuses to explain why it's bad from AEW XD





ShadowCounter said:


> Right? This was basically a NXT PPV type show against a taped AEW show. The crowing from the AEW haters is hilarious. Just cue the circus music cause the clowns are out in full. Now watch them disappear when AEW comfortably wins again next week.


Y'all don't seem to be taking NXT getting more viewers well


----------



## The Wood

NXT sounds HORRIBLE by the way. A bunch of stupid gimmicks, a cinematic embarrassment and headlined by women’s matches. A bunch of WCW’s worst bullshit (spin the wheel, make the deal).The best thing on the show sounds like the angle with The Undisputed Era.

All this talk about it being a “PPV.” Cut that shit out. This was a glorified Raw Roulette. Who was really going to tune in for Dexter Lumis vs. Cameron Grimes? AEW should be ashamed to lose to something like that.

NXT won because it was promoted and AEW sucked last week so it wasn’t going to win the floaters. NXT put on a more kinetic show than usual, which is good, but they’ve got to be careful not to hot-shot too long. I don’t know if they advertised anything for next week, but if they were wise they would have.


----------



## Joe Gill

rbl85 said:


> When AEW does more than 800K next week and NXT goes back to low 700K the same people trolling today will find every excuses to explain why it's bad from AEW XD


why does everyone have such a low bar? personally i dont care what nxt does... its a 3rd rate show for a company that has lost its magic. WWE is trash... but why does AEW have to be trash too when it was marketed as an alternative to WWE? even if they get 800k next week is that some sort of victory? Dynamite is on a major cable network...not the sci-fi channel. The fact that they cant grow their audience after only 1 year is a red flag. are they already out of ideas and storylines? why is it the same predictable crap every week? why is a tv show being booked as an indy show? does tony khan not understand the difference between a japanese audience and an american audience? do they not have any writers who can create compelling storylines that get people buzzing? ftr vs young bucks and page vs omega are 2 of the most anticipated matches in aew history... and the build for the matches over the past month have been horrendous. is this the best they could come up with? they have been building page vs omega all freaking year long...and they havent even had an in ring confrontation? you dont think fans want to see that? how about creating some drama? how about an occasional dq finish? how about a few swerves here and there? nope... all we get are 15 minute 50/50 matches every week that no one other than a handful of meltzer geeks care about. 

its sad how low the bar is for wrestling these days. dynamite isnt a televised house show... its a weekly episodic tv show that needs to tell compelling dramatic stories like wwe and wcw used to back in the day.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW did better in both departments (overall and demo) than last week. That is AEW's best demo in the four shows during October.

781k is better than last year's equivalent, but to match last year's equivalent next week they'll need to hit 822k.

Sounds like NXT put on a nice show (according to Twitter) with the older demo turning out in force. I wonder if that's the Halloween Havoc name attracting old WCW fans? AEW should really have put on a Halloween themed show of their own, especially with Penta in the main event (albeit on short notice).

If AEW are serious about bumping ratings then they need to put guys like Miro (his debut did very well) closer to the top and have Mox on-screen regularly. Focus on what sells and move the rest to the new second show. I'd also quicken the pace, split the opening 15 minutes in half (it's always a 10+ minute match) with a match and promo. IIRC, Darby Allin has popped some good ratings too, he seems the type to be popular with the young demo.

Anyway, as someone who lived through the Monday Night Wars enjoying both shows, competition = good. Even though in this case it'd probably benefit both shows to be on different days.


----------



## The Wood

Halloween is the same date every year. It’s not short notice. Are they going to need notice for Thanksgiving and Christmas too?


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> Y'all don't seem to be taking NXT getting more viewers well


No i'm actually quite happy for NXT because that episode deserved a really good rating, i really liked it.


----------



## patpat

rbl85 said:


> Of course they can "lose" against NXT in certain conditions (special shows, etc)
> 
> Also it's not a bad number for AEW they did better than last week.
> 
> Now maybe AEW could have done an halloween type show but at the end of the day it was a regular AEW show against a NXT PPV worthy show both on paper and in. action.
> 
> Also some of you need to stop with the overreaction XD
> 
> If AEW did a special episode like NXT did and blew NXT away you would have said "look they need to make special episode to win"....come on your not that dumb.


But NOOOO aew is dead. Lmao 
This is getting to the point of ridiculousness. They literally did better in demo and total viewership, the doom and gloom around everything aew related is just getting preposterous


----------



## rbl85

Joe Gill said:


> why does everyone have such a low bar? personally i dont care what nxt does... its a 3rd rate show for a company that has lost its magic. WWE is trash... but why does AEW have to be trash too when it was marketed as an alternative to WWE? even if they get 800k next week is that some sort of victory? Dynamite is on a major cable network...not the sci-fi channel. The fact that they cant grow their audience after only 1 year is a red flag. are they already out of ideas and storylines? why is it the same predictable crap every week? why is a tv show being booked as an indy show? does tony khan not understand the difference between a japanese audience and an american audience? do they not have any writers who can create compelling storylines that get people buzzing? ftr vs young bucks and page vs omega are 2 of the most anticipated matches in aew history... and the build for the matches over the past month have been horrendous. is this the best they could come up with? they have been building page vs omega all freaking year long...and they havent even had an in ring confrontation? you dont think fans want to see that? how about creating some drama? how about an occasional dq finish? how about a few swerves here and there? nope... all we get are 15 minute 50/50 matches every week that no one other than a handful of meltzer geeks care about.
> 
> its sad how low the bar is for wrestling these days. dynamite isnt a televised house show... its a weekly episodic tv show that needs to tell compelling dramatic stories like wwe and wcw used to back in the day.


I don't know if you realised it but when AEW does a really good ratings and destroy NXT i don't brag about it and most of the time i don't even react.

I only post in this topic when in my opinion people are overreacting, you'll never see me write that NXT suck or try to start an argument about NXT.


----------



## Outlaw91

Erik. said:


> since the 5th August, nearly 6 months ago.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

My brother and stepdad watch both NXT and AEW. My brother said both shows were good but that Lumis match was "dumb as fuck".


----------



## patpat

RapShepard said:


> Y'all don't seem to be taking NXT getting more viewers well


No nobody is "not taking It well" and it has nothing to do with even nxt. What is getting old and tired is the same old fucking doom and gloom "OmG AeW Is DeAd SoOn" for no reason you will see around here. 
They have a bad show? They are dead, nxt beats them in rating ? They are dead, bad ppv? Dead, bad botch? Dead.
Some people have no sense of measure and reason and its rightfully do pointed out because it's stupid


----------



## omaroo

When show has been average for some months now ratings arent gona be going up that much for them.

Fair play to NXT this week, best show they did for weeks and well deserved beating AEW this week.


----------



## RapShepard

patpat said:


> No nobody is "not taking It well" and it has nothing to do with even nxt. What is getting old and tired is the same old fucking doom and gloom "OmG AeW Is DeAd SoOn" for no reason you will see around here.
> They have a bad show? They are dead, nxt beats them in rating ? They are dead, bad ppv? Dead, bad botch? Dead.
> Some people have no sense of measure and reason and its rightfully do pointed out because it's stupid


And if you know that why pay them any mind


----------



## Erik.

Outlaw91 said:


> View attachment 92728


Yeah - no idea why I said 6 months. Ha.

Still, 3 months is pretty good.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> WWE knows how to step on it when they want to. Good for them.
> 
> NXT actually drew viewers, 1.65 between the two shows. AEW didn’t crash and burn like they deserved to after that crap last week. But they lost pretty handedly.


This is what happens when you put together THREE weeks, likely 5 weeks starting with Cassidy vs Brodie Lee and Cody’s sudden return to glory hog after previously having 3 weeks of their best television with him and his ego nowhere in sight, and Jericho doing constant dumb shit to just entertain himself.

Those two have seriously put a stain on the show, even for me. If it weren’t for Omega, Page, and wanting the product to be great, I’d have probably turned off by now.

Here’s a great idea!!! LET’S LEAVE OMEGA AND PAGE OFF THE ANNIVERSARY EPISODE!!!


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> And if you know that why pay them any mind


You know how that works, you keep reading or hearing someone saying something that you find stupid over and over again. You try your best to say nothing but at one point you can't do it anymore and you react.
Now that i did it i will probably go into my hibernation mode until i run out of patience XD


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> You know how that works, you keep reading or hearing someone saying something that you find stupid over and over again. You try your best to say nothing but at one point you can't do it anymore and you react.
> Now that i did it i will probably go into my hibernation mode until i run out of patience XD


Yeah some folk are stuck in the past on ratings. Like Dynamite is consistently a top 10 show most nights. What more do you really want from them ratings wise lol.


----------



## Kentucky34

AEW is being beaten by WWE's feeder league. Let that sink in.


----------



## fabi1982

I dont get why so many AEW diehards are getting mad about NXT beating AEW? All I see is excuses and delusion

„But overrun“
„But higher than last week“
„But special“
„But taped“

I remember when NXT was taped (or was it RAW) that people said it doesnt make a difference if live or not.
As some wrote, next week it will probably will be reversed again, so why be the frustrated baby instead of just ignore „our win“.
Oh and year over year, they what? Gained 30k viewers? This should be the topic of discussion, not some girlfight about why it is totally expected for AEW to lose to NXT.


----------



## The Wood

patpat said:


> No nobody is "not taking It well" and it has nothing to do with even nxt. What is getting old and tired is the same old fucking doom and gloom "OmG AeW Is DeAd SoOn" for no reason you will see around here.
> They have a bad show? They are dead, nxt beats them in rating ? They are dead, bad ppv? Dead, bad botch? Dead.
> Some people have no sense of measure and reason and its rightfully do pointed out because it's stupid


Has anybody even said that? It sounds like you are projecting hard. It’s pretty weird if you don’t want to hear it, but hear it even if people aren’t saying it.

All I’m seeing is “Welp, NXT was gonna beat them eventually because they were doing shit shows.” No one is saying that they’re “dead.” Slipping in terms of quality and where their average rating sits? Sure. You can see the benchmark getting lower and lower (“This is better than last week,” “third best number since the pandemic opposed,” and all that shit). But no one is claiming that they are dead.

And, by the way, this sooking because AEW didn’t win a week is why those not completely enamoured with the product kind of relish it. Those memes with AEW beating up NXT and Alvarez’s smug tone don’t help.


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> Yeah some folk are stuck in the past on ratings. Like Dynamite is consistently a top 10 show most nights. What more do you really want from them ratings wise lol.


Everybody here wants AEW to do way more than what they are currently doing but there's a difference between that and shitting on the company because they don't reach your expectations.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> Everybody here wants AEW to do way more than what they are currently doing but there's a difference between that and shitting on the company because they don't reach your expectations.


People don’t like the content they put out AND the ratings reflect that.


----------



## 304418

NXT did really well last night. Since the weekly war began on October 2nd of last year, this was their third highest rating ever. Only the Oct. 2, 2019 & Nov. 20, 2019 episodes drew higher total viewers.

AEW, in contrast, only drew in an extra 28 000 in total viewers. That’s all they drew one week after Le Dinner Debonair, a segment Russo claimed he would do to draw in casuals. AEW has pulled in two dozen higher total viewers with past shows since the war began than last night's show.

Hope that singing segment last week was worth it.


----------



## rbl85

Verbatim17 said:


> NXT did really well last night. Since the weekly war began on October 2nd of last year, this was their third highest rating ever. Only the Oct. 2, 2019 & Nov. 20, 2019 episodes drew higher total viewers.
> 
> AEW, in contrast, only drew in an extra 28 000 in total viewers. That’s all they drew one week after Le Dinner Debonair, a segment Russo claimed he would do to draw in casuals. AEW has pulled in two dozen higher total viewers with past shows since the war began than last night's show.
> 
> Hope that singing segment last week was worth it.


Except this week show was a regular one, nothing special was announced and nothing special happened.

NXT did basically a takeover last night, it had this can't miss feeling.

But in a way for me (i don't know if some of you have the same feeling about it) those show hurt the real takeovers a little because before AEW was a thing, you nearly never saw the NXT titles defended so often on the weekly episodes and that made the takeover matches really special but now they're not that special anymore.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

RainmakerV2 said:


> Aew : 781k
> 
> Nxt: 876k.


Wamp wamppp

AEW has been putting lots of shit out for many months now. NXT now wins every time they do a special. How long until Dynamite starts getting beat regularly?

Also the most troubling part is Tony Khan doesn't have the education to turn things around so it'll get worse.



ShadowCounter said:


> Right? This was basically a NXT PPV type show against a taped AEW show. The crowing from the AEW haters is hilarious. Just cue the circus music cause the clowns are out in full. Now watch them disappear when AEW comfortably wins again next week.


AEW SHOULD comfortably win every week. They've got a talent pool worth close to ten million dollars and just got beat by the kids in development.



rbl85 said:


> I don't know if you realised it but when AEW does a really good ratings and destroy NXT i don't brag about it and most of the time i don't even react.
> 
> I only post in this topic when in my opinion people are overreacting, you'll never see me write that NXT suck or try to start an argument about NXT.


AEW has never destroyed NXT and it's looking like they never will


----------



## The Wood

Just need to reiterate: that segment last week was _cringe_. It wasn’t fucking funny. Why did they change their steak orders? It made _no_ sense from a comedy perspective. The singing sounded fake, even if it wasn’t, it was a lazy reference and lazy content. They changed a few lines of a pre-existing song.

Fucking talk shows put more effort into their comedy five nights a week. It was try-hard for little pay-off, because they’re egomaniacs who think people give a shit about Fozzy or seeing MJF trying to become the next Michael Buble. Stay in your lane.

Believe it or not, people watch wrestling for wrestling. Talk shit, do shit. It’s that fucking simple and all these companies have to try and get cute about it.

Between AEW and NXT, you could splice them together and get one good pro-wrestling show. Get everyone that gets it on one roster and get all the frills on the other and watch it tank.

And anyone who suggests singing and dancing is the way forward should not have their opinions listened to by anyone with any real authority (if there is any).


----------



## Hephaesteus

Let this sink in, nxt's ratings were so bad that alot of internet reviewers stopped bothering with that show cuz they said that youtube interest isnt enough to be worth it. So even with the conditions in place, tk should be quite perturbed and getting in someones ass about losing to such a show.


----------



## La Parka

Who knew that a show that featured its second debate like segment of the year wouldn't beat NXT?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Hephaesteus said:


> Let this sink in, nxt's ratings were so bad that alot of internet reviewers stopped bothering with that show cuz they said that youtube interest isnt enough to be worth it. So even with the conditions in place, tk should be quite perturbed and getting in someones ass about losing to such a show.


Tony Khan too busy dancing to Judas to make any real changes. He'll probably book some random gimmick match for TV in response


----------



## The Wood

La Parka said:


> Who knew that a show that featured its second debate like segment of the year wouldn't beat NXT?


They’ve certainly got their tropes, don’t they? Just couldn’t wait to bring back Bischoff like this was a 2005 Raw.


----------



## Alright_Mate

I can remember some on here a few weeks ago saying, when AEW posted in the middle 700k’s, not to worry they’ll go back to posting 900k next week, well that is yet to happen.

People can blow ratings out of proportion however they want, defending AEW, shitting all over them, we see it every week...

The fact of the matter is, that this is a company who have a PPV in two weeks and they’ve consistently hit numbers in the 700k region for weeks now, that is not a good sign, that is the sign of a company that has hit a lull, all because the quality of their shows have dipped.

The build to All Out posted some decent numbers, they hit over a million at one point, building towards a PPV you’d expect more effort from them, but the build up to Full Gear has been bang average, and unsurprisingly that’s seen AEW get bang average ratings for weeks now.


----------



## Seafort

Joe Gill said:


> why does everyone have such a low bar? personally i dont care what nxt does... its a 3rd rate show for a company that has lost its magic. WWE is trash... but why does AEW have to be trash too when it was marketed as an alternative to WWE? even if they get 800k next week is that some sort of victory? Dynamite is on a major cable network...not the sci-fi channel. The fact that they cant grow their audience after only 1 year is a red flag. are they already out of ideas and storylines? why is it the same predictable crap every week? why is a tv show being booked as an indy show? does tony khan not understand the difference between a japanese audience and an american audience? do they not have any writers who can create compelling storylines that get people buzzing? ftr vs young bucks and page vs omega are 2 of the most anticipated matches in aew history... and the build for the matches over the past month have been horrendous. is this the best they could come up with? they have been building page vs omega all freaking year long...and they havent even had an in ring confrontation? you dont think fans want to see that? how about creating some drama? how about an occasional dq finish? how about a few swerves here and there? nope... all we get are 15 minute 50/50 matches every week that no one other than a handful of meltzer geeks care about.
> 
> its sad how low the bar is for wrestling these days. dynamite isnt a televised house show... its a weekly episodic tv show that needs to tell compelling dramatic stories like wwe and wcw used to back in the day.


AEW is in maintenance mode right now. Lacking arenas really robs the company and makes it little more than ROH or Impact with better values.


----------



## Cult03

rbl85 said:


> Of course they can "lose" against NXT in certain conditions (special shows, etc)
> 
> Also it's not a bad number for AEW they did better than last week.
> 
> Now maybe AEW could have done an halloween type show but at the end of the day it was a regular AEW show against a NXT PPV worthy show both on paper and in. action.
> 
> Also some of you need to stop with the overreaction XD
> 
> If AEW did a special episode like NXT did and blew NXT away you would have said "look they need to make special episode to win"....come on your not that dumb.


A tv show with NXT's 3 biggest stars sitting out. Cole, Balor and Kross weren't there and they beat AEW. It was a themed show, not even close to a PPV. AEW fans do this every time NXT wins.


----------



## RiverFenix

Moxley vs Kingston is not a PPV feud. I like Mad King, but he's not nearly established enough. And he already just lost to Moxley. Nobody believes he's going to win, nor should he. And Bucks vs FTR is flat, and Omega vs Hangman is way past it's due date to the point it lost any heat. Jericho loses a feud to Orange Cassidy, who is now in a buy-in match vs John Silver, while Jericho is fighting MJF for the opportunity for MJF to join the IC. The same IC which has to have a losing record the last 6 months. 

Jericho should have beat Cassidy in their feud. Archer vs Moxley should be happening now rather than given away, Brodie vs Cody Dog Collar match should only be happening now as well. 

The go-home show will be the night after the Presidential election - hopefully there isn't any civil unrest over the results. Full Gear is going to do terrible buy rate and unfortunately it will be well deserved.


----------



## rbl85

Alright_Mate said:


> I can remember some on here a few weeks ago saying, when AEW posted in the middle 700k’s, not to worry they’ll go back to posting 900k next week, well that is yet to happen.
> 
> People can blow ratings out of proportion however they want, defending AEW, shitting all over them, we see it every week...
> 
> *The fact of the matter is, that this is a company who have a PPV in two weeks and they’ve consistently hit numbers in the 700k region for weeks now, that is not a good sign, that is the sign of a company that has hit a lull, all because the quality of their shows have dipped.*
> 
> The build to All Out posted some decent numbers, they hit over a million at one point, building towards a PPV you’d expect more effort from them, but the build up to Full Gear has been bang average, and unsurprisingly that’s seen AEW get bang average ratings for weeks now.


That's what they do most of the time before the PPV

30 of october 2019 (2 weeks before Full gear) : 759K
6 of november 2019 (go home show of full gear) : 822K

12 of february 2020 (2 weeks before Revolution) : 817K
19 of february 2020 (go home show) : 893K

13 of may 2020 (2 weeks before DON 2) : 654K
20 of may 2020 (go home show) : 701K

Annnnnd i can't get access to showbuzz anymore....


----------



## rbl85

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Moxley vs Kingston is not a PPV feud. I like Mad King, but he's not nearly established enough. And he already just lost to Moxley. Nobody believes he's going to win, nor should he. And Bucks vs FTR is flat, and Omega vs Hangman is way past it's due date to the point it lost any heat. Jericho loses a feud to Orange Cassidy, who is now in a buy-in match vs John Silver, while Jericho is fighting MJF for the opportunity for MJF to join the IC. The same IC which has to have a losing record the last 6 months.
> 
> Jericho should have beat Cassidy in their feud. Archer vs Moxley should be happening now rather than given away, Brodie vs Cody Dog Collar match should only be happening now as well.
> 
> The go-home show will be the night after the Presidential election - hopefully there isn't any civil unrest over the results. *Full Gear is going to do terrible buy rate and unfortunately it will be well deserved.*


I think i already read that multiple times.


----------



## Alright_Mate

rbl85 said:


> That's what they do most of the time before the PPV
> 
> 30 of october 2019 (2 weeks before Full gear) : 759K
> 6 of november 2019 (go home show of full gear) : 822K
> 
> 12 of february 2020 (2 weeks before Revolution) : 817K
> 19 of february 2020 (go home show) : 893K
> 
> 13 of may 2020 (2 weeks before DON 2) : 654K
> 20 of may 2020 (go home show) : 701K
> 
> Annnnnd i can't get access to showbuzz anymore....


But you’re going back to last year mate.

Some of those numbers especially back in February were of good standard.

But you look at the build up to All Out though, in July/August they were gaining good momentum and posted over 1 million at one point.

Now another PPV is on the horizon and they’ve gone back to posting 700k, AEW isn’t like WWE where we have PPV’s every month, AEW should put more effort into building towards PPV’s and make them feel like a big deal.

AEW are so bad when it comes to having momentum, they can go from brilliant to shit within the space of a few weeks.


----------



## Prosper

After watching Halloween Havoc, NXT deserved this win for sure. Loved the entire show. Shotzi Blackheart was great and the zombies were awesome. Just all around fun top to bottom. Great Halloween presentation. As a fan of both shows, I am happy that NXT won the overall this week.


----------



## rbl85

Alright_Mate said:


> *But you’re going back to last year mate.*


Well like you said there's not a lot of AEW ppv.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Aew still topping the demos ..that's all that matters


----------



## omaroo

If NXT puts great shows as they did this week no doubt they will get more wins over AEW.

AEW can really boast can they.


----------



## rbl85

Also i wonder how some of you can say that fans don"t care or don't care anymore about a feud ?

Not saying that some of you are wrong but for it's impossible to say if feuds works or not without a crowd in the arena.


----------



## Klitschko

As a fan of AEW, this fucking sucks. I was hoping they would get below 700k if I'm being honest, especially when I heard NXT were doing a big special. 

Now you might be wondering WTF, but even with this big special from NXT, they still managed to get their average weekly rating. The reason why that sucks to me is because it tells AEW that what they are doing right now isn't going to impact their ratings and will keep telling them to continue doing these shitty shows(in my opinion) that they have been doing the last few weeks. I know AEW can put on an amazing show because they did it when they first came out up to the Revolution ppv. Thats the AEW that I want back.


----------



## Geeee

Joe Gill said:


> what a horrible number... but can you blame people? every episode of dynamite is predictable as hell... we all knew omega, page, kingston, cody were going to win. there are never any major swerves.. just very slow builds that fizzle out over time because people lose interest. must see tv is not about having solid 15 minutes matches... its drama filled action with brawls and backstabbing. khan and company are clueless on how to book tv... they are booking like an indy show.


It's a pretty good number for both shows. I'd say 781k total viewers is above average for Dynamite and NXT's 876k total viewers must be one of their highest.


----------



## The Wood

Botchy SinCara said:


> Aew still topping the demos ..that's all that matters


No it’s not. This is a Meltzer myth used to justify ranking AEW above its station.


----------



## qntntgood

Joe Gill said:


> why does everyone have such a low bar? personally i dont care what nxt does... its a 3rd rate show for a company that has lost its magic. WWE is trash... but why does AEW have to be trash too when it was marketed as an alternative to WWE? even if they get 800k next week is that some sort of victory? Dynamite is on a major cable network...not the sci-fi channel. The fact that they cant grow their audience after only 1 year is a red flag. are they already out of ideas and storylines? why is it the same predictable crap every week? why is a tv show being booked as an indy show? does tony khan not understand the difference between a japanese audience and an american audience? do they not have any writers who can create compelling storylines that get people buzzing? ftr vs young bucks and page vs omega are 2 of the most anticipated matches in aew history... and the build for the matches over the past month have been horrendous. is this the best they could come up with? they have been building page vs omega all freaking year long...and they havent even had an in ring confrontation? you dont think fans want to see that? how about creating some drama? how about an occasional dq finish? how about a few swerves here and there? nope... all we get are 15 minute 50/50 matches every week that no one other than a handful of meltzer geeks care about.
> 
> its sad how low the bar is for wrestling these days. dynamite isnt a televised house show... its a weekly episodic tv show that needs to tell compelling dramatic stories like wwe and wcw used to back in the day.


Joe gill thank you,you have taken the words right out of my mouth.becuase instead of defending a shit product,it needs to be said to tony khan and aew management.because they are heading for self destruction,begging a fan means demanding more from the product you are supporting.


----------



## thorn123

I just don't get ratings. Here I go again # whitesnake. Just because something is not popular doesn't make it bad...but popularity does matter for survival


----------



## Botchy SinCara

The Wood said:


> No it’s not. This is a Meltzer myth used to justify ranking AEW above its station.


Demos matter that's why it's ranked higher ..demos get you more advertisement money


----------



## Cult03

Botchy SinCara said:


> Demos matter that's why it's ranked higher ..demos get you more advertisement money


Then wouldn't it all depend on how much the advertisers are paying too? Seems redundant if there's this many variables


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Cult03 said:


> Then wouldn't it all depend on how much the advertisers are paying too? Seems redundant if there's this many variables


Nobody has talked about demos for months until the AEW ratings started falling.

Some will use any excuse to justify AEW and it's bad shows


----------



## Kentucky34

Botchy SinCara said:


> Demos matter that's why it's ranked higher ..demos get you more advertisement money


The younger demo will lose interest eventually and move onto something else.

AEW are not doing anything to maintain viewers.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

omaroo said:


> If NXT puts great shows as they did this week no doubt they will get more wins over AEW.
> 
> AEW can really boast can they.


If the dog wouldn't have stopped to take a shit he would have caught the rabbit. 

IF. IF. IF. IF.


----------



## The Wood

DaveRA said:


> I just don't get ratings. Here I go again # whitesnake. Just because something is not popular doesn't make it bad...but popularity does matter for survival


That’s basically it. You actually understand the ratings more than some people here who treat them like fixed power levels.

Another thing to keep in mind is that just because people watch something it doesn’t mean they actually like it. It’s better to make a good impression on 1 million people than 600k, but it’s worse to make a bad impression in front of 1 million people than 600k and leave 400k without those thoughts.



Botchy SinCara said:


> Demos matter that's why it's ranked higher ..demos get you more advertisement money


Demos can get you more advertisement money, that’s right. But that depends on all sorts of factors. Does your audience earn above or below the national average? What sort of products are they interested in? Do they live alone? Do they have dependents? Are they considered “trendy?” How likely is this person to influence? Follow influencers?

If advertising were as simple as opening Showbuzz Daily and buying up all the space on whichever shows are in the top 5, a fucking monkey could be trained to do that job.

Wrestling fans have a bad rep. Someone linked a survey from a Reddit page that kind of confirmed a lot of the negative stereotypes. Advertisers aren’t _obligated_ to spend money buying up time on All Elite Wrestling: Dynamite just because it appeals to people they perceive as white, single basement dwellers with an interest in pizza and wrestling.


----------



## imthegame19

Kentucky34 said:


> The younger demo will lose interest eventually and move onto something else.
> 
> AEW are not doing anything to maintain viewers.


They've had same 700 to 900 viewer range for over a year now. They had bad December 2019 and April-June and have rebounded just fine. But go ahead and continue making up theories.


----------



## The Wood

imthegame19 said:


> They've had same 700 to 900 viewer range for over a year now. They had bad December 2019 and April-June and have rebounded just fine. But go ahead and continue making up theories.


People used to think Raw was stable too.


----------



## imthegame19

Geeee said:


> It's a pretty good number for both shows. I'd say 781k total viewers is above average for Dynamite and NXT's 876k total viewers must be one of their highest.


Yes let's put it this way. AEW viewership and demo increased compared to last week yet the end is near? Why because NXT had special Halloween Havoc throwback concept and over run(which I'm sure gave them viewership spike). 

While AEW had a tape show that spoilers leaked all over the internet. If NXT couldn't do more viewers this week. Well then USA should just cancel them right now. Overall AEW still won where it matters in demo (2nd best non news show for the night) and viewership was solid 


Next week with all crazy election stuff going on. They will probably drop to 730-750 range and NXT will be back in the 600s. But then AEW will get post ppv bump and easily do 850 to 900 viewers on the next show. After that things should settle back in the 800 range with NBA/MLB and Election stuff all done.


----------



## The Wood

imthegame19 said:


> Yes let's put it this way. AEW viewership and demo increased compared to last week yet the end is near? Why because NXT had special Halloween Havoc throwback concept and over run(which I'm sure gave them viewership spike).
> 
> While AEW had a tape show that spoilers leaked all over the internet. If NXT couldn't do more viewers this week. Well then USA should just cancel them right now. Overall AEW still won where it matters in demo (2nd best non news show for the night) and viewership was solid
> 
> 
> Next week with all crazy election stuff going on. They will probably drop to 730-750 range and NXT will be back in the 600s. But then AEW will get post ppv bump and easily do 850 to 900 viewers on the next show. After that things should settle back in the 800 range with NBA/MLB and Election stuff all done.


*Who is saying the end is near?* Find me one person.

Demo is overrated. USA is not canceling a show it gets so cheap. If the rumours are true and the WWE gets nothing for it, plus USA keeps all the returns, then it’s a steal for USA. If both AEW and NXT get $100 million in ad revenue, then USA keeps $100 million while TNT only gets $27.5 million. Who comes out ahead in that scenario?

Next week’s rating will probably be down a lot more than that. The world is going to be actually different after the election. There will be lots of civil unrest either way it goes. Wrestling will actually have an excuse then. NXT has actually got a better chance at retaining its audience, in my opinion. Could be two straight weeks for NXT. And then Full Gear will fall into a hole. And we’ll see after that.


----------



## ClintDagger

Botchy SinCara said:


> Demos matter that's why it's ranked higher ..demos get you more advertisement money


Demos for wrestling are horrendous. The education and income demos for wrestling are ugly as sin. Nobody cares about your age demo if the education and / or income levels are bottom of the barrel.


----------



## imthegame19

Alright_Mate said:


> But you’re going back to last year mate.
> 
> Some of those numbers especially back in February were of good standard.
> 
> But you look at the build up to All Out though, in July/August they were gaining good momentum and posted over 1 million at one point.
> 
> Now another PPV is on the horizon and they’ve gone back to posting 700k, AEW isn’t like WWE where we have PPV’s every month, AEW should put more effort into building towards PPV’s and make them feel like a big deal.
> 
> AEW are so bad when it comes to having momentum, they can go from brilliant to shit within the space of a few weeks.



Here are viewership averages last four months. 

774 July 
810 August
906 September 
778 October

Now September is very inflated due to two weeks of 928 and 1 million viewers not going head to head with NXT. Still they would have averaged above 860 to 880 range. 


If you pay attention to AEW ratings the past year though. You would know that it's younger audience will watch other important things live going on in the world first(while NXT older audience isn't as effected). So keep in mind October AEW was going up against NBA Eastern/Western Conference and NBA finals. Along with MLB playoffs and World Series. 


Not to mention major election with country more divided then it's been in a while. So if you left wrestling bubble and realized competition AEW is going up against. Yet they are still averaging more viewers then July and DVR plus 7 day numbers are still strong. It will tell you that they are doing great. If AEW faced this type of competition in April or May. Things would have been much worse. But there's increase interest in the company so the numbers are still staying strong.


----------



## imthegame19

ClintDagger said:


> Demos for wrestling are horrendous. The education and income demos for wrestling are ugly as sin. Nobody cares about your age demo if the education and / or income levels are bottom of the barrel.


USA and FOX care to pay WWE 500 million a year for there demos. TNT cared enough about AEW demos to give them two year 175 million dollar extension. That's awful lot of money(and more money anyone EVER paid for wrestling)for nobody to care lol.


----------



## imthegame19

Kentucky34 said:


> AEW has no mega stars and no real direction. That is why their viewership figures are tumbling.
> 
> They need a FOTC but who could that be? Moxley? Not good enough in the ring and the audience lose interest in him. Jericho? Too old. Omega? Overrated. Orange Cassidy? Oh please.


Moxley not good enough in the ring and people lose interest you say. Yet he's only guy who main event head to head against NXT and do highest rated quarter and demo for the right. Only time anyone else came close was Adam Cole vs Keith Lee. Lol why does it feel like you are trolling us all. Just writing wrong things on purpose lol


----------



## The Wood

There’s some absolute voodoo going on with your deductions there, chum. A lot of suppositions passed off as facts.

- Not confirmed that USA and FOX are paying for the demos, or which demos they are paying for.

- $175 million over a few years is NOTHING in TV terms.

- Live TV has jumped in value because it’s keeping people from cutting cable.

- Not sure how you get 860k as an average when it didn’t happen.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

imthegame19 said:


> Moxley not good enough in the ring and people lose interest you say. Yet he's only guy who main event head to head against NXT and do highest rated quarter and demo for the right. Only time anyone else came close was Adam Cole vs Keith Lee. Lol why does it feel like you are trolling us all. Just writing wrong things on purpose lol


Is anyone genuinely interested in Kingston Vs Mox?


----------



## The Wood

Chip Chipperson said:


> Is anyone genuinely interested in Kingston Vs Mox?


I have this weird feeling that AEW might actually switch the belt just to prove they can and that you can’t miss a PPV or write-off any outcome. Virtually no one is giving this to Kingston.

Renee Paquette to be held at “gunpoint” (so to speak) by Kingston’s heels?

I dunno, I can just feel something weird like that coming.


----------



## Kentucky34

Chip Chipperson said:


> Is anyone genuinely interested in Kingston Vs Mox?


No.


----------



## imthegame19

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Moxley vs Kingston is not a PPV feud. I like Mad King, but he's not nearly established enough. And he already just lost to Moxley. Nobody believes he's going to win, nor should he. And Bucks vs FTR is flat, and Omega vs Hangman is way past it's due date to the point it lost any heat. Jericho loses a feud to Orange Cassidy, who is now in a buy-in match vs John Silver, while Jericho is fighting MJF for the opportunity for MJF to join the IC. The same IC which has to have a losing record the last 6 months.
> 
> Jericho should have beat Cassidy in their feud. Archer vs Moxley should be happening now rather than given away, Brodie vs Cody Dog Collar match should only be happening now as well.
> 
> The go-home show will be the night after the Presidential election - hopefully there isn't any civil unrest over the results. Full Gear is going to do terrible buy rate and unfortunately it will be well deserved.



Ehh dude you really don't know AEW fan base do you? First of all Mox/Kingston is happening for a reason. The title match they did in September did very good rating. Which was much better then the number Mox/Archer match did.


Archer talented guy and I like him a lot too. But there's a reason why he keeps getting pushed aside. While guy like Eddie Kingston is connecting much more with the audience. People are way more excited for that feud then they would be Archer. That said I get what you mean about it being fast for Kingston. But let's not act like Archer is the Undertaker or Brock Lesnar here. He doesn't have much longer track record then Kingston. While the gimmick makes the match fresh.


Moxley/Kingston feud is much stronger and fresher story. Then big man monster going after underdog Moxley stuff. Mox/Kingston actually have a fresh story that audience is invested it. Ideally yes it would have been great to build up Kingston more for this spot. 


But it's not like Hager, Brodie, Cage, Archer or even MJF beat anyone recently going into the title matches. Hager and Archer(who lost to Cody like Kingston)biggest win was Dustin, Brodie was Christopher Daniels and MJF since March biggest win was Jungle Boy. While Cage won Casino Ladder match. But biggest singles win before Moxley match was Brian Pillman jr. Eddie Kingston beat Sydal and Pillman. While gimmick favors him with no rules I Quit Match and fact he has back up too.



As for the rest of the card. You got Omega/Page match that people been waiting to see all year. You got dream matches in FTR/Bucks and MJF/Jericho. While continuing Cody/Darby feud and people think Darby going to get his big win here.


If you think this show is going to do terrible buy. Yet Double or Nothing did well with 10 man unknown match taking place in Football Stadium. Along with Dean Ambrose vs Luke Harper 2015 Extreme Rules rematch(that open the show) and Cody vs Archer. 


Or All Out that did solid number and had good main event of Mox/MJF, but Jericho/Cassidy 3, FTR/Omega&Page and no Cody on the card. Well this show with Mox/Kingston I Quit, Page/Omega, MJF/Jericho, Bucks/FTR and Cody/Darby. This card sells itself with AEW fan base and I'll be surprised if it doesn't do better then All Out.


As for Jericho. Can we stop acting like his loses to Orange Cassidy hurt him. He beat Orange clean. Then he lost by fluke roll up pin and falling off top rope into a pool. It's not like he ever knocked Jericho out cold for 3 count pin or submitted him.


----------



## The Wood

TV ratings and PPV buys are different metrics. I’ll give something a try if it’s on TV for free, but ask me to spend $50 on it? Game changes.


----------



## Hephaesteus

The Wood said:


> I have this weird feeling that AEW might actually switch the belt just to prove they can and that you can’t miss a PPV or write-off any outcome. Virtually no one is giving this to Kingston.
> 
> Renee Paquette to be held at “gunpoint” (so to speak) by Kingston’s heels?
> 
> I dunno, I can just feel something weird like that coming.


Not even AEW is silly enough to give up a moxley omega match for shits and giggles. Until Omega takes it, Moxley shall hold the belt.


----------



## The Wood

They can have Omega win the belt off Moxley or just have Moxley win it back.

My brain tells me it’s unlikely, but I my gut isn’t sure if I should trust my brain with this company.


----------



## fabi1982

The Wood said:


> I have this weird feeling that AEW might actually switch the belt just to prove they can and that you can’t miss a PPV or write-off any outcome. Virtually no one is giving this to Kingston.
> 
> Renee Paquette to be held at “gunpoint” (so to speak) by Kingston’s heels?
> 
> I dunno, I can just feel something weird like that coming.


Thats actually what I was thinking yesterday, while watching. The only interesting thing they can do is bring in Renee and have Mix say „i quit“ because they threaten to hurt her. But this again would feel very WEEish.


----------



## The Wood

fabi1982 said:


> Thats actually what I was thinking yesterday, while watching. The only interesting thing they can do is bring in Renee and have Mix say „i quit“ because they threaten to hurt her. But this again would feel very WEEish.


They’re really trying to stumble into that territory though.


----------



## fabi1982

The Wood said:


> They’re really trying to stumble into that territory though.


Honestly, they are already there for like half a year. At least Kenny/Penta showed a little bit of this "sports oriented" wrestling they wrote themselves on the flag around a year ago.

But the longer I think about, I really think that Mox is losing to chubby drug dealer, because they wont have Mox lose to someone important.


----------



## BigCy

Chip Chipperson said:


> Is anyone genuinely interested in Kingston Vs Mox?


I'm a Kingston guy so yeah kind of, Mox brings this down more than Kingston imo. I think he'll be fodder but as @The Wood pointed out what if AEW pulls a swerve just to swerve? I wouldn't mind Kingston with the strap but I admit it would devalue the belt as Kingston is seen as a midcard act.


----------



## fabi1982

I only see Mox lose, when they want to put the belt on Hangman/Omega imo. If this isnt the next title match with one of them, Mox will win. But I like the fact that it is probably the least predictable Mox match ever in AEW.


----------



## Pippen94

AEW Dynamite Beat WWE SmackDown In The Ratings Last Week


The World Series caused SmackDown to make a move to FS1 for an episode last Friday. They drew 881,000 viewers in total, and the ratings were not great




www.google.com


----------



## The Wood

I can see them getting the idea that their booking is “too predictable.” And as far up their own asses as they might be, they have to know that this PPV has got the least amount of interest heading in. That’s why I think something on this show is going to go completely the other way.

They book like smarks for smarks. And what is it that smarks whinge about all the time? Predictability.

I like Kingston more than I do Mox, by the way. I’m just not sure that is the way to book. But you just know the idea has been floated.


----------



## Pippen94

Good win again by aew includes increasing demo.
Taped show with spoilers out for a week against ppv level one makes it even more impressive


----------



## The Wood

No they didn’t. They got 753k viewers to SmackDown’s 881k, with SmackDown airing on a Friday night on a different channel with far less exposure. SmackDown got almost three times the station average.

You’re spreading disinformation. Stop.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Good win again by aew includes increasing demo.
> Taped show with spoilers out for a week against ppv level one makes it even more impressive


So even when they lose they win because you grade on a curve? Do you wank off Tony Khan’s dogs for him or just dress like a clown to distract the football experts?


----------



## bdon

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Moxley vs Kingston is not a PPV feud. I like Mad King, but he's not nearly established enough. And he already just lost to Moxley. Nobody believes he's going to win, nor should he. And Bucks vs FTR is flat, and Omega vs Hangman is way past it's due date to the point it lost any heat. Jericho loses a feud to Orange Cassidy, who is now in a buy-in match vs John Silver, while Jericho is fighting MJF for the opportunity for MJF to join the IC. The same IC which has to have a losing record the last 6 months.
> 
> Jericho should have beat Cassidy in their feud. Archer vs Moxley should be happening now rather than given away, Brodie vs Cody Dog Collar match should only be happening now as well.
> 
> The go-home show will be the night after the Presidential election - hopefully there isn't any civil unrest over the results. Full Gear is going to do terrible buy rate and unfortunately it will be well deserved.


Like I keep fucking saying and not a single goddamn soul has yet to admit: the receipt for the show revolving around Jericho and Cody is coming due, and it is fucking hefty.

Congrats on the L.


----------



## Peerless

AEW is not going to make their biggest draw lose and say "I Quit" to fucking Eddie Kingston lmfao. Even if Eddie's a great talent, it makes no sense from a business perspective. Especially not in a dopey WWE fashion involving Renee.

I've been telling you guys this since Jericho won the belt. Mox isn't dropping the title until he's up against Omega. Kingston's just a filler feud until Revolution. Meltzer who gets first-hand info from the AEW executives talked about this from the first episode. Jericho and Mox were supposed to be the first two champions who get the company going, and then Omega and Hangman will take charge in the second year. Omega, Jericho, and The Bucks have all said as much.

The reason Moxley is Super Mox right now is so that when Omega beats him, it looks like a big deal. The rub diminishes if he loses before then. Obviously, without the crowd, the rub will not be as big, so it wouldn't surprise me if they wanted to do the title change when they have a crowd, but tbh how much longer are you going to stall Omega? Right now the focus will be all about building up Omega, as much as some people might refuse to believe it because they don't like him. AEW's top title booking is going to be so predictable for these first few years. They want to book the top title like it's NJPW, so only a select few are going to win it, and that doesn't involve the likes of Eddie Kingston, Brodie Lee, Archer, Cage, and everyone else this forum thought Mox was going to drop the title against.

The world championship will only be held by one of Jericho, Moxley, Omega, Hangman, MJF, and Cody from 2019-2022. I know Cody can't fight for the title, but when he turns heel he'll ignore that stipulation. That's their championship bracket. That's the glass ceiling. The likes of Darby and everyone else won't enter it for years. The only one who might break into that group is if a big WWE/NJPW star signs with AEW, if not, expect those guys to be part of the top title scene for years to come.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Like I keep fucking saying and not a single goddamn soul has yet to admit: the receipt for the show revolving around Jericho and Cody is coming due, and it is fucking hefty.
> 
> Congrats on the L.


Hang on, I’ll fucking admit it. I’ll fucking admit it all day long. 



Peerless said:


> AEW is not going to make their biggest draw lose and say "I Quit" to fucking Eddie Kingston lmfao. Even if Eddie's a great talent, it makes no sense from a business perspective. Especially not in a dopey WWE fashion involving Renee.
> 
> I've been telling you guys this since Jericho won the belt. Mox isn't dropping the title until he's up against Omega. Kingston's just a filler feud until Revolution. Meltzer who gets first-hand info from the AEW executives talked about this from the first episode. Jericho and Mox were supposed to be the first two champions who get the company going, and then Omega and Hangman will take charge in the second year. Omega, Jericho, and The Bucks have all said as much.
> 
> The reason Moxley is Super Mox right now is so that when Omega beats him, it looks like a big deal. The rub diminishes if he loses before then. Obviously, without the crowd, the rub will not be as big, so it wouldn't surprise me if they wanted to do the title change when they have a crowd, but tbh how much longer are you going to stall Omega? Right now the focus will be all about building up Omega, as much as some people might refuse to believe it because they don't like him. AEW's top title booking is going to be so predictable for these first few years. They want to book the top title like it's NJPW, so only a select few are going to win it, and that doesn't involve the likes of Eddie Kingston, Brodie Lee, Archer, Cage, and everyone else this forum thought Mox was going to drop the title against.
> 
> The world championship will only be held by one of Jericho, Moxley, Omega, Hangman, MJF, and Cody from 2019-2022. I know Cody can't fight for the title, but when he turns heel he'll ignore that stipulation. That's their championship bracket. That's the glass ceiling. The likes of Darby and everyone else won't enter it for years. The only one who might break into that group is if a big WWE/NJPW star signs with AEW, if not, expect those guys to be part of the top title scene for years to come.


Hahaha, now I hope it does happen just to hear you afterwards.

I used to listen to Dave before he became insufferable. I’ve never heard this from him. And why is the talent giving away their major booking plans. This feels like you’ve taken reading between the lines and applied your own reason and attributed it to the company.

This company lies to Dave all the time. Or he lies for them. They say they have plans for months, but then things are obviously thought of on the fly. We also know they don’t like losing in the ratings at all and are not above hitting a red button if that does happen.

I’m just saying that it wouldn’t surprise me to see them get cute because they out-clever themselves.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> *Who is saying the end is near?* Find me one person.
> 
> Demo is overrated. USA is not canceling a show it gets so cheap. If the rumours are true and the WWE gets nothing for it, plus USA keeps all the returns, then it’s a steal for USA. If both AEW and NXT get $100 million in ad revenue, then USA keeps $100 million while TNT only gets $27.5 million. Who comes out ahead in that scenario?
> 
> Next week’s rating will probably be down a lot more than that. The world is going to be actually different after the election. There will be lots of civil unrest either way it goes. Wrestling will actually have an excuse then. NXT has actually got a better chance at retaining its audience, in my opinion. Could be two straight weeks for NXT. And then Full Gear will fall into a hole. And we’ll see after that.


And if/when NXT goes back to lowly second rate Wednesday show, will you simply admit that they’re getting their teeth kicked in on the regular? You know that I AM willing to admit when AEW fucking sucks, but I am trying real fucking hard to see any semblance that you will ever be fucking honest about NXT. 


The Wood said:


> I have this weird feeling that AEW might actually switch the belt just to prove they can and that you can’t miss a PPV or write-off any outcome. Virtually no one is giving this to Kingston.
> 
> Renee Paquette to be held at “gunpoint” (so to speak) by Kingston’s heels?
> 
> I dunno, I can just feel something weird like that coming.


Goddamn, they better not do some stupid goddamn “sports entretainment” bullshit like this. I fucking hate WWE, and now I’ve grown to hate goddamn Jericho, MJF, Cody (ok, I hated his bullshit from Day 1), etc and really I hope I don’t have to start hating Moxley for agreeing to some goddamn bullshit “sports entertainment” angle.

You’ve got me feeling that WCW 99-ish vibe where they try to out sports entertain Vince. I’m now fucking angry.


----------



## Peerless

The Wood said:


> Hang on, I’ll fucking admit it. I’ll fucking admit it all day long.
> 
> 
> 
> Hahaha, now I hope it does happen just to hear you afterwards.
> 
> I used to listen to Dave before he became insufferable. I’ve never heard this from him. And why is the talent giving away their major booking plans. This feels like you’ve taken reading between the lines and applied your own reason and attributed it to the company.
> 
> This company lies to Dave all the time. Or he lies for them. They say they have plans for months, but then things are obviously thought of on the fly. We also know they don’t like losing in the ratings at all and are not above hitting a red button if that does happen.
> 
> I’m just saying that it wouldn’t surprise me to see them get cute because they out-clever themselves.


If I eat crow, I eat crow, haha. But no, man, I'm not just reading this from Meltzer's perspective (he wrote it in the observer), The Bucks, Omega, Jericho, and Cody have all more or less said the same thing in their interviews too. You ask me why they reveal their top title booking plans? Because they're bush league. That's why. I'm surprised an AEW critic like yourself can't see how predictable their top title booking is. Yes, they book on the fly when it comes to the weekly TV, and what not, but having a supposed title succession process isn't really that hard to stay true to as long as there are no injuries. The writing has been on the wall that it would be Jericho -> Mox -> Omega -> Hangman, and it was always reported that they had their title succession for their first two years planned (the destinations, not the journey - which anyone can do).

Yeah, they'll want the cheap rating pop, but that's what the TNT title will be used for. I really don't expect a TV title change or a top star dropping it to a midcarder happen anytime soon.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Hang on, I’ll fucking admit it. I’ll fucking admit it all day long.
> 
> 
> 
> Hahaha, now I hope it does happen just to hear you afterwards.
> 
> I used to listen to Dave before he became insufferable. I’ve never heard this from him. And why is the talent giving away their major booking plans. This feels like you’ve taken reading between the lines and applied your own reason and attributed it to the company.
> 
> This company lies to Dave all the time. Or he lies for them. They say they have plans for months, but then things are obviously thought of on the fly. We also know they don’t like losing in the ratings at all and are not above hitting a red button if that does happen.
> 
> I’m just saying that it wouldn’t surprise me to see them get cute because they out-clever themselves.


Cody...fucking...sucks.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> And if/when NXT goes back to lowly second rate Wednesday show, will you simply admit that they’re getting their teeth kicked in on the regular? You know that I AM willing to admit when AEW fucking sucks, but I am trying real fucking hard to see any semblance that you will ever be fucking honest about NXT.
> 
> Goddamn, they better not do some stupid goddamn “sports entretainment” bullshit like this. I fucking hate WWE, and now I’ve grown to hate goddamn Jericho, MJF, Cody (ok, I hated his bullshit from Day 1), etc and really I hope I don’t have to start hating Moxley for agreeing to some goddamn bullshit “sports entertainment” angle.
> 
> You’ve got me feeling that WCW 99-ish vibe where they try to out sports entertain Vince. I’m now fucking angry.


AEW has been beating them, I’m just not that impressed by that. I’m also not a fan of the narrative that NXT has been trying their little heart out and AEW just effortlessly swats them away and Triple H drinks his tears every Thursday when the ratings come in.

I thought NXT would have found a way to sex themselves up by this point in time, and I admit I was wrong about that, but eh. They know what they’re doing and they’ve helped AEW cap themselves and now there isn’t really a massive place for AEW to go.

And trying to be more WWE than WWE is what promotions chasing WWE do. TNA used to do it. WCW did it. AEW has started doing it. You see A LOT of the same tropes on both shows.



Peerless said:


> If I eat crow, I eat crow, haha. But no, man, I'm not just reading this from Meltzer's perspective (he wrote it in the observer), The Bucks, Omega, Jericho, and Cody have all more or less said the same thing in their interviews too. You ask me why they reveal their top title booking plans? Because they're bush league. That's why. I'm surprised an AEW critic like yourself can't see how predictable their top title booking is. Yes, they book on the fly when it comes to the weekly TV, and what not, but having a designated title succession isn't really that hard, even Tony Khan can do that much.
> 
> Yeah, they'll want the cheap rating pop, but that's what the TNT title will be used for. I really don't expect a TV title change or a top star dropping it to a midcarder happen anytime soon.


Them being bush league is why I think they might do something for shock value. I’m on the fence about it because I’ve got no faith in them, haha.

Cody is the TNT Champion. Don’t think that he won’t float the idea of the World Title being used as a publicity stunt to make his position more stable.

Oh, every man and his dog can see the predictable route of Omega winning the tournament and then beating Moxley. That’s another reason I can see them changing it. The macro ideas won’t change, they’ll just make it more complicated for themselves.


----------



## thisissting

Can't remember the last time I watched smackdown does anyone still watch it and raw without fast forward? Even cornette and his stooge don't bother to watch them based on their latest podcast. I will sometimes watch the first and last half hour of raw everything in between is dross.


----------



## The Wood

thisissting said:


> Can't remember the last time I watched smackdown does anyone still watch it and raw without fast forward? Even cornette and his stooge don't bother to watch them based on their latest podcast. I will sometimes watch the first and last half hour of raw everything in between is dross.


Why say “even.” They fucking hate WWE. And why do you listen to their podcast?

And yeah, usually about 2 million people or so watch SmackDown live. Several times the audience of AEW.


----------



## thisissting

You would think if they provide weekly topical news and reviews about wrestling they might bother to watch the weekly product from the so called main brand. You can't have a valid opinion if you don't watch the product. The stooge hates wwe even more than cornette seemingly. In some ways thought they are right raw and smackdown are rotten shows god knows who watches them.


----------



## The Wood

thisissting said:


> You would think if they provide weekly topical news and reviews about wrestling they might bother to watch the weekly product from the so called main brand. You can't have a valid opinion if you don't watch the product. The stooge hates wwe even more than cornette seemingly. In some ways thought they are right raw and smackdown are rotten shows god knows who watches them.


That’s just not true at all. You don’t need to watch something to know you don’t want to watch it. And they cover whatever they want to cover. They don’t talk about the content of the shows if they don’t know what the content on the shows is, lol.

And Brian Last has been very open about Raw and SmackDown being where the traffic is. If they wanted to do things for listens, they would cover WWE more, but Brian Last, especially, finds it painful.


----------



## Hephaesteus

Hold on a minute, so now they're basing that no. off of % who watched that had the channel available to them? Why is the observer like this? Its one thing for us as fans to make such excuses, it's quite another for paid journalists to purposely mislead the public in such a way.


----------



## Pippen94

Hephaesteus said:


> Hold on a minute, so now they're basing that no. off of % who watched that had the channel available to them? Why is the observer like this? Its one thing for us as fans to make such excuses, it's quite another for paid journalists to purposely mislead the public in such a way.


T
TNT 89 million households
fs1 83 million
USA 91 million


----------



## The Wood

Hahaha, are they really going that route? Oh man, that’s getting sad. Just change the game if you don’t like the rules. Wow.

I can’t wait for the Observer to break the news that AEW has a higher percentage of viewers with dogs, which is a huge boon for them because the dog food people might be interested.


----------



## Hephaesteus

Pippen94 said:


> T
> TNT 89 million households
> fs1 83 million
> USA 91 million


Im missing something. More people watched in less homes? How did he even come to that rating?


----------



## fabi1982

Even for the Observer this is low, but see there are trolls around who take it for gold


----------



## Pippen94

Hephaesteus said:


> Im missing something. More people watched in less homes? How did he even come to that rating?


Potential audience 93% of TNT. Even with would do 0.29 - still less than aew


----------



## Hephaesteus

Pippen94 said:


> Potential audience 93% of TNT. Even with would do 0.29 - still less than aew


But more people watched smackdown. What factor am I missing in these calculations?


----------



## La Parka

Meltzer clearly has no plan of ever being taken seriously again.


----------



## The Wood

Hephaesteus said:


> But more people watched smackdown. What factor am I missing in these calculations?


He only counts people 18-49. And when that fails, he only counts people 18-34.


----------



## Hephaesteus

The Wood said:


> He only counts people 18-49. And when that fails, he only counts people 18-34.


Ok gotcha thanks. What kinda complicated mental gymnastics... 

Thats paid journalists acting like one of us.


----------



## The Wood

I always used to think he was just fanboying/going to bat for the Observer (since that’s Khan’s education), but I’m starting to think he is on the payroll.

But if that’s the case, he’s making it REALLY obvious.


----------



## Pippen94

Hephaesteus said:


> But more people watched smackdown. What factor am I missing in these calculations?











Key demo and total audience: What are they and how much do they matter? - Wrestlenomics


The metrics we’ve followed throughout the last few decades of wrestling television history have changed. In the “Monday Night War” era, amid the competition ultimately won by WWF …




www.google.com


----------



## WWFNoMercyExpert

Who is watching SD, seriously? it’s just a RAW recap


----------



## The Wood

WWFNoMercyExpert said:


> Who is watching SD, seriously? it’s just a RAW recap


Lol, is this post from 2015? If so, I love that gimmick.


----------



## Hephaesteus

WWFNoMercyExpert said:


> Who is watching SD, seriously? it’s just a RAW recap


Raw wishes that smackdown was a raw recap. Raw is easily the worst of all 4 shows


----------



## NathanMayberry

This thread is big cope; 

Why can't AEW just take an L and hope to do better next time?


----------



## CM Buck

Since I don't care about competition, and? We as fans should be hoping both succeed and do well. Smackdown has actually been consistent lately which is good.

If wrestling fans care about numbers, they're no longer fans but tv executives


----------



## thisissting

WWFNoMercyExpert said:


> Who is watching SD, seriously? it’s just a RAW recap


Exactly anyone who watches that and raw every week are either under 14 years old or need a labotomy.


----------



## TheGreatBanana

Pippin how much does AEW pay you to post these nonsense. Smh


----------



## La Parka

NathanMayberry said:


> This thread is big cope;
> 
> Why can't AEW just take an L and hope to do better next time?


It's like watching a sports fan attempt to tell anyone who will listen that the team would've won if it wasn't for that blown call!


----------



## The Wood

Firefromthegods said:


> Since I don't care about competition, and? We as fans should be hoping both succeed and do well. Smackdown has actually been consistent lately which is good.
> 
> If wrestling fans care about numbers, they're no longer fans but tv executives


People can be interested in the business side if they want.


----------



## CM Buck

The Wood said:


> People can be interested in the business side if they want.


Didn't say you couldn't be a number-maniac brother. I just don't see the value in it fandom wise if you smell what I'm calculating.


----------



## DaSlacker

Back in 2014, when SmackDown was on cable, on a Friday, it did a little above 2/3 the viewers of Raw. When AEW ran unopposed post PPV it did 1 million. So for what it's worth, by my calculations under the same conditions the numbers would be:

Raw - 1.7 million
FN SmackDown - 1.2 million
AEW - 900,000
NXT - 800,000


----------



## validreasoning

Pippen94 said:


> T
> TNT 89 million households
> fs1 83 million
> USA 91 million


Lol that's not how it works

2019 TNT averaged 1 million viewers in prime time, fs1 just 300,000 115 Cable Channels Ranked by 2019 Viewership - Yes, Comedy.TV Is Still Dead Last

SD basically tripled fs1s normal primetime average


----------



## Prosper

Meh I don’t give a shit if they were on FS1. Doesn’t count.


----------



## Klitschko

I have never shit on your opinion before Pippen, because at the end of the day it was your opinion and I respected that, but that was an embarrassing post in order to make AEW look good and that entire link is just a giant clickbait.


----------



## The Wood

validreasoning said:


> Lol that's not how it works
> 
> 2019 TNT averaged 1 million viewers in prime time, fs1 just 300,000 115 Cable Channels Ranked by 2019 Viewership - Yes, Comedy.TV Is Still Dead Last
> 
> SD basically tripled fs1s normal primetime average


Yeah, that’s the first thing I thought of too. This would be like Dynamite doing 3 million viewers.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

FS1 lol, come on guys. Those of you dishing it out better not cry when one day AEW has to do an episode on TruTV and draws 1/3rd of their normal.


----------



## ClintDagger

imthegame19 said:


> USA and FOX care to pay WWE 500 million a year for there demos. TNT cared enough about AEW demos to give them two year 175 million dollar extension. That's awful lot of money(and more money anyone EVER paid for wrestling)for nobody to care lol.


You are wrong. Those networks are not paying for the demos. They are paying for the raw viewership totals. It helps them with their rights fees. The demos are worthless to them.


----------



## NathanMayberry

La Parka said:


> Meltzer clearly has no plan of ever being taken seriously again.


Nope Dog Wanker has him believing those cheques from Shahid will last forever...


----------



## Ozell Gray

Ratings Breakdown For NXT Halloween Havoc and AEW Dynamite

As we previously reported, NXT Halloween Havoc split the numbers with AEW Dynamite this week, earning a viewership win (876,000 to AEW’s 781,000) but losing in the key 18-49 ratings demographic (0.25 to AEW’s 0.31). Dynamite was #2 for the night and NXT was #21. Since the latter was back in the top 50, full demo numbers are available. The Wrestling Observer Newsletter has a full breakdown of the ratings including a look at the quarter-by-quarter numbers.

Dynamite was #12 in the 18-49 demo, but overall it was only just behind a Lifetime movie Married at First Sight, which had an 0.32. It was #8 with males 18-49 and #1 among non-news shows. It was #12 in males 12-34 and #2 in non-news shows (NXT was #1 in this measure). AEW beat NXT in males 18-34 but NXT had the edge in male teenagers. Dynamite was up 3.7% from last week and up 5.7% in the key demo.

In an interesting note, NXT did well enough that it almost beat Smackdown’s most recent rating, and Smackdown had no wrestling competition. Both shows beat Smackdown in 18-49. It was #11 in males 18-49 (second to AEW in non-news shows), #11 in 18-34 (fourth among non-news), #19 in women 12-34 (8th among non-news shows) and #6 in males 12-34 (#1 in non-news). NXT’s themed episode had it up 34.6% from last week and 53.2% in 18-49.

Dynamite had 66,000 viewers in men 18-34 (up 37.5%), 71,000 in women 18-34 (up 24.6%), 178,000 in men 35-49 (down 12.3%) and 116,000 in women 35-49 (up 43.2%). NXT had 62,000 viewers in men 18-34 (up 158.3%), 40,000 in women 18-34 (up 33.3%), 148,000 in men 35-49 (up 51%) and 76,000 in women 35-49 (up 43.4%).

Here’s a detailed quarter-by-quarter breakdown:

Q1: Wardlow vs. Hangman Page – 818,000 viewers, 413,000 in 18-49
Q2: Jon Moxley promo/Eddie Kingston promo/Kingston vs. Matt Sydal – 726,000 viewers (down 92,000), 374,000 in 18-49 (down 39,000)
Q3: Young Bucks & FTR interview/Inner Circle Town Hall – 753,000 viewers (up 27,000), 420,000 in 18-49 (up 46,000)
Q4: Inner Circle Town Hall – 867,000 viewers (up 114,000), 466,000 in 18-49 (up 46,000)
Q5: Cody vs. Orange Cassidy – 830,000 viewers (down 37,000), 337,000 in 18-49 (down 29,000)
Q6: Miro & Kip Sabian beat up Best Friends/Serena Deeb vs. Leyla Hirsch – 744,000 viewers (down 86,000), 378,000 in 18-49 (up 41,000)
Q7: Shawn Spears vs. VSK/Kenny Omega vs. Penta El Zero M – 766,000 viewers (up 22,000), 393,000 in 18-49 (up 15,000)
Q8: End of Omega vs. Penta – 748,000 viewers (down 18,000), 411,000 in 18-49 (up 18,000)

And here’s the breakdown of NXT by quarters:

Q1: Johnny Gargano vs. Damian Priest – 922,000 viewers, 337,000 in 18-49
Q2: End of Gargano vs. Priest – 957,000 viewers (up 35,000), 340,000 in 18-49 (up 3,000)
Q3: William Regal & Cameron Grimes segment/Pat McAffee segment/Pete Dunne returns – 892,000 viewers (down 65,000), 334,000 in 18-49 (down 6,000)
Q4: Santos Escobar vs. Jake Atlas – 780,000 viewers (down 112,000), 290,000 in 18-49 (down 44,000)
Q5: Dexter Lumis vs. Cameron Grimes/Rhea Ripley vs. Raquel Gonzalez – 850,000 viewers (up 70,000), 324,000 in 18-49 (up 34,000)
Q6: End of Ripley vs. Gonzalez – 901,000 viewers (up 51,000), 337,000 in 18-49 (up 13,000)
Q7: Cameron Grimes vs. Dexter Lumis Part 2/Tommaso Ciampa promo – 812,000 viewers (down 89,000), 310,000 in 18-49 (down 27,000)
Q8: Io Shirai vs. Candice LeRae – 844,000 viewers (up 32,000), 321,000 in 18-49 (up 11,000)
Overrun: Io Shirai vs. Candice LeRae – 967,000 (up 123,000), 349,000 in 18-49 (up 28,000)

AEW had a 0.10 in 12-17 (same as last week), 0.20 in 18-34 (up 30.5%), 0.44 in 35-49 (up 3.5%) and 0.29 in 50+ (up 3.6%). The audience was 59.4% male in 18-49 and 45.5% male in 12-17. NXT had a 0.16 in 12-17, 0.15 in 18-34 (up 88.9%), 0.35 in 35-49 (up 48.3%) and 0.43 in 50+. The audience was 64.4% male in 18-49 and 67.8% male in 12-17.











411MANIA | Ratings Breakdown For NXT Halloween Havoc and AEW Dynamite


An extended ratings breakdown of the numbers between NXT Halloween Havoc and AEW Dynamite, with the companies splitting the results...




411mania.com







Ambrose's segment in quarter 2 tanked in the viewership and NXT opened with 922,000 viewers.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Ozell Gray said:


> Q5: Cody vs. Orange Cassidy –337,000 in 18-49


Ouch


----------



## One Shed

Trashidy getting last place again. Get this half trick pony off to the glue factory.


----------



## DammitChrist

^ Who? :kobe

Anyway, Cody Rhodes and Orange Cassidy having their match/segment get the 2nd most views on this recent Dynamite episode :banderas

That's unsurprising considering the fact that both men are among the most over talents on AEW 

By the way, it's funny how Chris Jericho ended up being involved in the segment that got the most views on Dynamite considering how some folks pretended that he was "killing" the company. Just take a look at the delusional dude who went "ouch" at Cody vs Cassidy when their match was one of the peaks in the viewership 

You'd love to see those guys continue to succeed on Dynamite :drose


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Hopefully this is it for the OC experiment. Fans don't seem to have grown to Hangman at all, I can never remember his segments doing big numbers. Hate to see that, the new pants aren't helping matters.


----------



## One Shed

The demo is the only thing that matters until it suddenly does not right?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Looks like the Inner Circle segment won the night. Cody/Cassidy drops off from it tho in a prime quarter. Main event also dropping isn’t good.

Seems like NXT’s show took a good chunk of AEW’s audience, and the only thing advertised interesting enough on AEW was the Inner Circle one.
Also I am a bit fed up with what been done with Miro, and good that numbers reflect that.


----------



## imthegame19

ClintDagger said:


> You are wrong. Those networks are not paying for the demos. They are paying for the raw viewership totals. It helps them with their rights fees. The demos are worthless to them.



Lol so then why would Fox network tv want Smackdown? When original programming in that time slot did more viewers? Demo is only thing that gives them value over other Friday night programming. Anyways I know you are wrong and trolling. But it's fun to try to get you to explain yourself hahaha.


----------



## rbl85

Two Sheds said:


> Trashidy getting last place again. Get this half trick pony off to the glue factory.


Last place ?

You need glasses or new ones.


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> Last place ?
> 
> You need glasses or new ones.


As we are always told on here, ONLY the demo matters.


----------



## ClintDagger

imthegame19 said:


> Lol so then why would Fox network tv want Smackdown? When original programming in that time slot did more viewers? Demo is only thing that gives them value over other Friday night programming. Anyways I know you are wrong and trolling. But it's fun to try to get you to explain yourself hahaha.


Did you read anything that Nallen said about the deal at the time? He flat out said they did it so that they would have one full night of the week with good viewership numbers and no repeats throughout the year. It essentially allowed them to only worry about 6 nights of programming and they could move a show like LMS to a better tv night. By the way, the demos they were doing on Friday were much better before SD came along.

In a nutshell, nobody puts wrestling on the air if their goal is attractive demographics. If you think that, you are severely misinformed or ignorant. You can call me a troll all you want, but you are just further embarrassing yourself by discussing a topic in which you obviously are not well-versed in.


----------



## rbl85

Two Sheds said:


> As we are always told on here, ONLY the demo matters.


Oh ok i thought you were talking overall, no problem.


----------



## 3venflow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol - take a week off and come read this thread
> 
> you guys are funny


The WWE Universe never sleeps.



> Q2: Jon Moxley promo/Eddie Kingston promo/Kingston vs. Matt Sydal – 726,000 viewers (down 92,000), 374,000 in 18-49 (down 39,000)


How do you read a segment like this? At what point did the viewers tune out? Moxley usually does good ratings so did they tune out during his promo or during the Kingston match?

I love Eddie but I don't see him as someone who is gonna get new eyes on the product as a top guy. He's brilliant as a mouthpiece though.


----------



## Kentucky34

Smackdown and NXT had more viewers than AEW. 

Stop with the spin.


----------



## Kentucky34

Ozell Gray said:


> Ratings Breakdown For NXT Halloween Havoc and AEW Dynamite
> 
> As we previously reported, NXT Halloween Havoc split the numbers with AEW Dynamite this week, earning a viewership win (876,000 to AEW’s 781,000) but losing in the key 18-49 ratings demographic (0.25 to AEW’s 0.31). Dynamite was #2 for the night and NXT was #21. Since the latter was back in the top 50, full demo numbers are available. The Wrestling Observer Newsletter has a full breakdown of the ratings including a look at the quarter-by-quarter numbers.
> 
> Dynamite was #12 in the 18-49 demo, but overall it was only just behind a Lifetime movie Married at First Sight, which had an 0.32. It was #8 with males 18-49 and #1 among non-news shows. It was #12 in males 12-34 and #2 in non-news shows (NXT was #1 in this measure). AEW beat NXT in males 18-34 but NXT had the edge in male teenagers. Dynamite was up 3.7% from last week and up 5.7% in the key demo.
> 
> In an interesting note, NXT did well enough that it almost beat Smackdown’s most recent rating, and Smackdown had no wrestling competition. Both shows beat Smackdown in 18-49. It was #11 in males 18-49 (second to AEW in non-news shows), #11 in 18-34 (fourth among non-news), #19 in women 12-34 (8th among non-news shows) and #6 in males 12-34 (#1 in non-news). NXT’s themed episode had it up 34.6% from last week and 53.2% in 18-49.
> 
> Dynamite had 66,000 viewers in men 18-34 (up 37.5%), 71,000 in women 18-34 (up 24.6%), 178,000 in men 35-49 (down 12.3%) and 116,000 in women 35-49 (up 43.2%). NXT had 62,000 viewers in men 18-34 (up 158.3%), 40,000 in women 18-34 (up 33.3%), 148,000 in men 35-49 (up 51%) and 76,000 in women 35-49 (up 43.4%).
> 
> Here’s a detailed quarter-by-quarter breakdown:
> 
> Q1: Wardlow vs. Hangman Page – 818,000 viewers, 413,000 in 18-49
> Q2: Jon Moxley promo/Eddie Kingston promo/Kingston vs. Matt Sydal – 726,000 viewers (down 92,000), 374,000 in 18-49 (down 39,000)
> Q3: Young Bucks & FTR interview/Inner Circle Town Hall – 753,000 viewers (up 27,000), 420,000 in 18-49 (up 46,000)
> Q4: Inner Circle Town Hall – 867,000 viewers (up 114,000), 466,000 in 18-49 (up 46,000)
> Q5: Cody vs. Orange Cassidy – 830,000 viewers (down 37,000), 337,000 in 18-49 (down 29,000)
> Q6: Miro & Kip Sabian beat up Best Friends/Serena Deeb vs. Leyla Hirsch – 744,000 viewers (down 86,000), 378,000 in 18-49 (up 41,000)
> Q7: Shawn Spears vs. VSK/Kenny Omega vs. Penta El Zero M – 766,000 viewers (up 22,000), 393,000 in 18-49 (up 15,000)
> Q8: End of Omega vs. Penta – 748,000 viewers (down 18,000), 411,000 in 18-49 (up 18,000)
> 
> And here’s the breakdown of NXT by quarters:
> 
> Q1: Johnny Gargano vs. Damian Priest – 922,000 viewers, 337,000 in 18-49
> Q2: End of Gargano vs. Priest – 957,000 viewers (up 35,000), 340,000 in 18-49 (up 3,000)
> Q3: William Regal & Cameron Grimes segment/Pat McAffee segment/Pete Dunne returns – 892,000 viewers (down 65,000), 334,000 in 18-49 (down 6,000)
> Q4: Santos Escobar vs. Jake Atlas – 780,000 viewers (down 112,000), 290,000 in 18-49 (down 44,000)
> Q5: Dexter Lumis vs. Cameron Grimes/Rhea Ripley vs. Raquel Gonzalez – 850,000 viewers (up 70,000), 324,000 in 18-49 (up 34,000)
> Q6: End of Ripley vs. Gonzalez – 901,000 viewers (up 51,000), 337,000 in 18-49 (up 13,000)
> Q7: Cameron Grimes vs. Dexter Lumis Part 2/Tommaso Ciampa promo – 812,000 viewers (down 89,000), 310,000 in 18-49 (down 27,000)
> Q8: Io Shirai vs. Candice LeRae – 844,000 viewers (up 32,000), 321,000 in 18-49 (up 11,000)
> Overrun: Io Shirai vs. Candice LeRae – 967,000 (up 123,000), 349,000 in 18-49 (up 28,000)
> 
> AEW had a 0.10 in 12-17 (same as last week), 0.20 in 18-34 (up 30.5%), 0.44 in 35-49 (up 3.5%) and 0.29 in 50+ (up 3.6%). The audience was 59.4% male in 18-49 and 45.5% male in 12-17. NXT had a 0.16 in 12-17, 0.15 in 18-34 (up 88.9%), 0.35 in 35-49 (up 48.3%) and 0.43 in 50+. The audience was 64.4% male in 18-49 and 67.8% male in 12-17.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 411MANIA | Ratings Breakdown For NXT Halloween Havoc and AEW Dynamite
> 
> 
> An extended ratings breakdown of the numbers between NXT Halloween Havoc and AEW Dynamite, with the companies splitting the results...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 411mania.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ambrose's segment in quarter 2 tanked in the viewership and NXT opened with 922,000 viewers.


Gargano is on fire!

Give that man a push on the main roster, quick!


----------



## Chip Chipperson

NathanMayberry said:


> This thread is big cope;
> 
> Why can't AEW just take an L and hope to do better next time?


I received an explanation on here once that made a lot of sense. It's like a sporting team for a lot of the fans and they root for that team every week. Meltzer is kind of like a former player or someone working in the teams office that will make excuses and say stuff is better than it is all in the name of passion and love.

What I don't understand though is that sports fans will shit on their team for a bad performance and talk about signing new players, getting new coaching staff etc in. AEW fans don't really do that.



El Hammerstone said:


> Ouch


He's a big draw.


----------



## omaroo

AEW lost this week and no doubt will lost for more weeks to come as NXT overall imo is better atm. 

But diehards of AEW will say anything to say its not a loss for AEW. No shame losing to a third brand of WWE.


----------



## imthegame19

3venflow said:


> The WWE Universe never sleeps.
> 
> 
> 
> How do you read a segment like this? At what point did the viewers tune out? Moxley usually does good ratings so did they tune out during his promo or during the Kingston match?
> 
> I love Eddie but I don't see him as someone who is gonna get new eyes on the product as a top guy. He's brilliant as a mouthpiece though.


It's simple Moxley was in 1 minute promo. You can't have good quarter off 1 minute promo alone. While Kingston/Sydal was random match with no build up. When that goes up against the end Gargano/Priest gimmick title match. Well of course it's not going to do well. Especially with this being a taped show and results online.


----------



## imthegame19

ClintDagger said:


> Did you read anything that Nallen said about the deal at the time? He flat out said they did it so that they would have one full night of the week with good viewership numbers and no repeats throughout the year. It essentially allowed them to only worry about 6 nights of programming and they could move a show like LMS to a better tv night. By the way, the demos they were doing on Friday were much better before SD came along.
> 
> In a nutshell, nobody puts wrestling on the air if their goal is attractive demographics. If you think that, you are severely misinformed or ignorant. You can call me a troll all you want, but you are just further embarrassing yourself by discussing a topic in which you obviously are not well-versed in.


I never said only demos mattered and viewership didn't. Put it this way if AEW did 900,000 viewers and .08 demo in 18 to 49. TNT wouldn't have given them 175 million two year extension. Viewership AND who's viewing the show is very important to these networks. Thanks for embarrassing yourself and continuing to reply with nothing but opinions. End of conversation


----------



## imthegame19

Pippen94 said:


> Key demo and total audience: What are they and how much do they matter? - Wrestlenomics
> 
> 
> The metrics we’ve followed throughout the last few decades of wrestling television history have changed. In the “Monday Night War” era, amid the competition ultimately won by WWF …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com


It's time for everyone to read this article.


----------



## omaroo

Ok so if total audience drops and nxt beats them it's still a win for AEW lol.


----------



## Klitschko

Next week's news from that website: AEW beats RAW, Smackdown and NXT combined in viewership ratings.

AEW will get their usual 700-850k (on TNT) while RAW/SD/NXT got 0.00 combined (on TNT).


----------



## Cult03

The Wood said:


> AEW has been beating them, I’m just not that impressed by that.


This. AEW should be flogging WWE's developmental brand every single week. AEW has legit WWE main eventers/upper midcarders on every week, their roster should be far better at this point but it isn't. AEW should be doing better


----------



## Ozell Gray

imthegame19 said:


> It's time for everyone to read this article.


Ok so let me school you on this "demo" being important to networks since you keep harping on this.

"The key demo" doesn't matter to network executives when it comes to Wrestling, because networks don't make money from wrestling that way because advertisers hate wrestling hence why most networks want nothing to with wrestling. 

"On last night's Observer Radio, Dave mentioned that he recently got eyes on WWE's ad rates, and he mentioned that despite their viewership, and market share (numbers most other cable shows would love), the ad rates they get are still fairly terrible.

He didn't give any specifics on prices, but put forth that the rates are significantly less than that of the UFC, which already gets lower rates than regular cable shows because of the violence factor that comes along with it. This is even more significant because the WWE does a million more viewers each week on average than the UFC, and even more than that for most cable shows which get those higher ad rates.

Dave posits that the WWE gets 1/10th the ad rates than that of a regular cable show, which is down significantly from the past when the WWE would get about half the cost in ad rates than the standard show.

Following this through to TNA, he speaks about ad rates being one of the big factors in Destination America dumping the promotion last year, and may be souring Pop TV on TNA right now. According to PWInsider, the ad rates for Impact are about $350 per 30 second spot, which is very, very low. And because of the revenue share aspect of the TV deal, Pop only sees half of that.

So, long story short: Wrestling fans still have a reputation for being cheap and advertisers aren't willing to spend any real money because of that. Vince's 30 year plan to calling pro wrestling "sports entertainment" has done nothing except bother his actual fans."










WOR: Raw go-home show, Extreme Rules, Steph's book and more!


Wrestling Observer Radio with Bryan Alvarez and Dave Meltzer returns tonight with tons of news! Raw from Monday, the go-home show for Extreme Rules, a look at




www.f4wonline.com







I thought "the key demo" is all that mattered! WWE are usually number 1 in that category easily most weeks and yet still advertisers paid less for ads for WWE than they did for other shows. Why? Because advertisers consider wrestling fans as the lowest common denominator (low income basement dwellers who enjoy this low brow sport). 

WWE got the Fox deal because it's tv-pg and Fox can get better ad rates because it's family friendly (tv-pg).

We could not sell UFC," a source described as "a former staffer" at Fox told The Hollywood Reporter's Marisa Guthrie in May 2018. "And wrestling is family friendly. If you have wrestling you can find cash. I think it's a big win for Fox; it's a great trade-off." A little over a month later, in a Sports Business Journal feature that went in-depth on WWE and the UFC's negotiations for 2019 contracts, John Ourand wrote that "[h]istorically, WWE’s rights fees had been depressed as ad buyers shied away from the series. In the current media environment prioritizing live sports, however, advertisers now covet WWE’s large and engaged fan base."










Report Casts WWE TV Deals As Loss Leaders, Misses Additional Value They Bring


The conventional wisdom on pro wrestling has always been that, generally speaking, pro wrestling on television generates significantly less advertising revenue than other programming with a similarly sized audience.




www.forbes.com






So in essence Raw, SmackDown, and NXT are making USA Network and Fox more money than Dynamite could ever dream of making TNT and thats with NXT doing lower ratings ("key demo") than Dynamite. Thats why I laugh at AEW fans thinking USA Network are "worried about NXT" because NXT does lower demos than Dynamite. Not realizing USA Network makes more off NXT than TNT does Dynamite because it's tv-pg. Dynamite being tv-14 works AGAINST TNT, because not only is wrestling looked down upon by advertisers but it's gets even worse when you add on the fact that the show is tv-14. 

So "the demos" only matters with OTHER sports and shows NOT wrestling. TNT aren't making any money off Dynamite while USA Network and Fox executives are going home happy because Raw, SmackDown, and NXT are making them bank because it's family friendly (tv-pg). TNT meanwhile are losing money off of Dynamite because sponsors want nothing to do with Dynamite or be associated with AEW period.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I've said before demo is irrelevant for AEW because you take into account a few things that have been posted on this very forum

1. The quite frankly shocking information that came from Reddit that revealed something like 70% (I don't have it in front of me) of wrestling fans over there made 0-35,000 dollars a year with a large percentage (Maybe 20-25%?) made between 0-12,000. Advertisers looking to sell a 35,000 dollar car are going to go and cater to people who have that money instead of weird wrestling fans who make next to nothing.

Pretty much unless you're wrestling related, a snack company or deal with cheap goods you're not going to want to advertise on AEW. Most of the ads that play on TNT during AEW are most likely package deals where companies pay X to get X amount of ads.

2. No advertiser in their right mind looks at an AEW audience and thinks "Ooooh look at these people". AEW audience generally is physically unappealing, hipster and obsessed with memes and meme wrestling. They value an Orange Cassidy T-Shirt over a new car.

3. This is all some plan conjured up by Uncle Dave to ensure AEW always wins. Nobody gave a fuck about demos in wrestling until AEW came along and nobody cares when AEW beats NXT but when AEW loses it suddenly becomes a demographic argument.

AEW could lose the demographic and then it'd quickly become "Well AEW won the top of the hour!" or "AEW WON THE MAIN EVENT!"

No matter what, AEW cannot lose.


----------



## Cult03

Can we start comparing who the advertisers are for each show? I'm in Australia so I don't get to see them (or care about American viewing habits) but if someone could find a list I'd love to see.


----------



## BigCy

Man I don't know if I'm getting drugs piped into my ventilation or what but you guys have me rolling over here tonight! Lmao at the last few pages. I usually don't visit this thread but I'm glad I did tonight! Keep it up fellas, love you all.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Cult03 said:


> This. AEW should be flogging WWE's developmental brand every single week. AEW has legit WWE main eventers/upper midcarders on every week, their roster should be far better at this point but it isn't. AEW should be doing better


I was thinking about this the other day but even on the low end AEW would have at least twenty or thirty million dollars wrapped up in it's talent. Jericho allegedly on 3 million, Mox allegedly on 3 million, Cody would be on around 2 as would the rest of EVP's. That's 10 million just there in your most expensive talent then you have Miro who isn't coming cheap and a heap of ex WWE talent and talents like JR who gave up whatever they were doing before to join this company full time.

Compare it to NXT how much realistically could their active roster be making? Finn Balor is probably the most expensive on the roster and I could see him making 600-700k a year from NXT. Roster for NXT maybe walking with 5-10 million a year between them all?

That has to be taken into account as well ratings wise, if a company is spending 30 million on wages to barely squeak out a win against the brand spending 5 million is it really worth celebrating? If it was just Mox and the AEW midcard crew how well would AEW be doing ratings wise?


----------



## MoxAsylum

Haha AEW is chasing away all their viewers with all these geeks


----------



## fabi1982

Cody/OC not having the biggest rating in Q5 says alot. And it was up against Lumis/Grimes and Reah/Gonzales. No for the ACE of the compny no excuses here...And sad for Kenny, it really seems that US wrestling fans dont like good wrestling matches, or they just like NXTs womens wrestling more.

Seems like Hangman winning then.


----------



## Klitschko

> There are still approximately 80 tickets available for the _AEW Full Gear_ pay-per-view, which takes place on Saturday, November 7, at Daily's Place in Jacksonville, Florida.
> 
> AEW began selling up to 925 tickets [out of 5,500 capacity] on Thursday night. According to Dave Meltzer on the latest Wrestling Observer Radio, it is "shocking" that up to 84 tickets were still available for the show as of Saturday night.
> 
> Meltzer noted that in a normal situation, with a stacked card featuring matches such as MJF vs. Chris Jericho, Kenny Omega vs. "Hangman" Adam Page, and FTR vs. The Young Bucks, AEW would have comfortably sold out at least 12,000 tickets. He said that wrestling fans from other states wouldn't have hesitated to either drive in or fly into Jacksonville. However, many fans are still hesitant to travel in the wake of COVID-19.
> 
> The Observer mentioned how slow ticket sales could be because the Jacksonville market is "completely burned out" by running shows on a weekly basis. Meltzer also noted that fans might be reluctant to go to the show due to the strict restrictions. Fans can purchase either 2, 4, or 6 tickets each family/group and be restricted to their respective pods in order to maintain social distancing.
> 
> Daily's Place recommends that pods consist of only "immediate family members" among whom social distancing is impossible or others with whom fans are comfortable not maintaining a social distance. Furthermore, it is a really complex process to invite anyone from outside your immediate family into the pod.
> 
> According to the Ticketmaster website, the ringside tickets are sold out but there are still over 80 tickets available in the terrace / concourse overhang area.











Note On Disappointing Ticket Sales For AEW Full Gear - Wrestling Inc.


There are still approximately 80 tickets available for the AEW Full Gear pay-per-view, which takes place on Saturday, November 7, at Daily’s Place in Jacksonville, Florida. AEW began selling up to 925 tickets [out of 5,500 capacity] on Thursday night. According to Dave Meltzer on the latest...




www.google.com





Thats kind of surprising. I thought it would sell out faster then that.


----------



## One Shed

Sure, blame the virus, not the horrible build. Jacksonville is the largest city in the third largest state in the US by population. But sure, they will be selling out Wembley Stadium soon.


----------



## The Wood

Man, that’s not good for this once hot company.


----------



## sim8

Give OC vs John Silver the build it deserves and watch those tickets sell like hot cakes


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Hmm.

- Ratings dropping (News, presidential debate, sports are blamed)

- Forums such as this one talking about AEW less (Me and my buddies get the blame)

- More criticisms for AEW (Multiple accounts and haters blamed)

- Slow ticket sales (COVID is blamed)


Reality? A mixture of AEW's freshness slowly wearing off and it's bad shows are resulting in a lack of interest. Not good at all.


----------



## La Parka

sim8 said:


> Give OC vs John Silver the build it deserves and watch those tickets sell like hot cakes


AEW could give away the tickets and hot cakes and they'd still have no one showing up to that match.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

La Parka said:


> AEW could give away the tickets and hot cakes and they'd still have no one showing up to that match.


Would you stop? Orange Cassidy is a draw and the next Daniel Bryan.


----------



## La Parka

Chip Chipperson said:


> Would you stop? Orange Cassidy is a draw and the next Daniel Bryan.


its john silver.

hes holding OC back. 

AEW would overtake WWE if they gave OC the title.


----------



## .christopher.

People actually thought they'd sell out Wembley, lmao. They'd struggle selling out Craven Cottage (Fulham's much smaller stadium).


----------



## The Wood

Covid or not, this is what happens when you appeal to the niche. You depend on the same people to fill up your buildings. Covid probably is affecting the travelling audience, but this is what the reality is — a group of hardcore fans, who, between them, can make the effort to fill up some decent-sized arenas. But they aren’t going to be able to justify so many shows, and you’re not drawing people from the actual local area.

When you actually appeal to wrestling fans who aren’t as “hardcore” in their mentality, you can draw families (sometimes four tickets for just one fan), older people (with more income) and women. You can even get local attention and have a much larger pool of people to sell to, which means you aren’t burning out your most passionate fans.

They could potentially run Jacksonville and Chicago even more if they had casuals coming in, because you’d possibly get twice as many people, which means half your hardcores are buying tickets, which means they can justify it sooner. Also, the shows would probably be better so you’d get more return business. 

They could have done this with CM Punk, Randy Orton and an approach that didn’t mock people for watching it. Instead they’ve got memes and bad musical comedy.


----------



## .747925

I'd watch at home instead of getting the virus off some cunt


----------



## WWFNoMercyExpert

The Wood said:


> When you actually appeal to wrestling fans who aren’t as “hardcore” in their mentality, you can draw families (sometimes four tickets for just one fan), older people (with more income) *and women*. You can even get local attention and have a much larger pool of people to sell to, which means you aren’t burning out your most passionate fans.


Yeah and I think the women's division being an afterthought is part of what's hurting it. In other promotions, it seems like half the audience is women. 
It has issues with creative, too, but that's for another day.
Sad to see.


----------



## rbl85

WWFNoMercyExpert said:


> Yeah and I think the women's division being an afterthought is part of what's hurting it. In other promotions, it seems like half the audience is women.
> It has issues with creative, too, but that's for another day.
> Sad to see.


Most of the women don't come to shows to see the women division.


----------



## The Wood

They don’t really have men to see either.


----------



## PushCrymeTyme

80 tickets bruh 80 tickets out of 5000 u haters make it seem like its a wwe show struggling to sell out a full side of the arena for a major ppv

u people hate aew just to hate at this point 

nfl teams r even having trouble selling tickets & thats the most popular sport in america

there is this little thing called election week happening during full gear idk maybe you have heard of it u know its only just one of the biggest stay at home & watch the news moments of the entire year oh & not to mention there is a thing called covid 19 pandemic still out there


----------



## reyfan

To be fair alot of people adjusted to being at home and not going to things, will take a while for things to go back to how they were 12 months ago.


----------



## karebear

AEW obviously aren't pushing cassidy enough. time for him to main event every dynamite show going into full gear.


----------



## WWFNoMercyExpert

PushCrymeTyme said:


> u people hate just to hate at this point go get some pussy in ur life


You ask a lot from the IWC.
Also, you're acting like Full Gear is on the third.

aside from the pandemic, Jacksonville apparently has been exhausted.


----------



## La Parka

PushCrymeTyme said:


> there is this little thing called election week happening during full gear idk maybe you have heard of it u know its only just one of the biggest stay at home & watch the news moments of the entire year


Everyone knows you stay in and watch the news for 3 days straight after an election!


----------



## kyledriver

Well that's it they're going out of business 

Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk


----------



## The Wood

PushCrymeTyme said:


> 80 tickets bruh 80 tickets out of 5000 u haters make it seem like its a wwe show struggling to sell out a full side of the arena for a major ppv
> 
> u people hate aew just to hate at this point
> 
> nfl teams r even having trouble selling tickets & thats the most popular sport in america
> 
> there is this little thing called election week happening during full gear idk maybe you have heard of it u know its only just one of the biggest stay at home & watch the news moments of the entire year oh & not to mention there is a thing called covid 19 pandemic still out there


Aren’t they only selling 900 or so? I don’t know how you can call people “haters” and then take a shot at WWE like that would be completely justified if they were in the same situation. Why does AEW have excuses WWE doesn’t?

AEW chose to have this PPV in November. And the election is not going to be on when this PPV is on. That’s insane reasoning. Wrestling used to be popular when it was good too.

The pandemic hurts with travel — I’ll give it that. And yeah, some people might just want to stay home (that’s always the case anyway). But that they can’t get that many fans in their home base to come out and support them for a PPV highlights that the criticisms aren’t without merit.


----------



## fabi1982

PushCrymeTyme said:


> 80 tickets bruh 80 tickets out of 5000 u haters make it seem like its a wwe show struggling to sell out a full side of the arena for a major ppv


Next time read before you rant. They want to sell 925 tickets (5500 is the capacity of dailys place). So with your 5000, there would be 4150 left, bruh.


----------



## Garty

PushCrymeTyme said:


> 80 tickets bruh 80 tickets out of 5000 u haters make it seem like its a wwe show struggling to sell out a full side of the arena for a major ppv
> 
> u people hate just to hate at this point go get some pussy in ur life
> 
> nfl teams r even having trouble selling tickets & thats the most popular sport in america
> 
> there is this little thing called election week happening during full gear idk maybe you have heard of it u know its only just one of the biggest stay at home & watch the news moments of the entire year oh & not to mention there is a thing called covid 19 pandemic still out there


Well, before they jump down your throat about "5000 seats", (*EDIT too late) *as has been the case since they started to allow fans into Daily's Place, only 1000 tickets are available for all shows. The number initially was between 800-1200, so they're in the safe-zone still and unless something drastically changes, that could be the new-norm for fans going forward. As usual, it's an overreaction, to a minimal issue. 80 tickets remain out of 1000? The math is pretty easy there, but for arguments sake, it's 8%. The PPV will be a "sell-out", in the way that a sell-out is now classified as. See above.

And yes, the company is imploding and will close immediately after Full Gear. Take it from the same four or five people, when they say it's "all doom and gloom"... something that's been said for over a year now?! 

Has AEW made a few bad decisions the past 2 weeks... to some yes, to others no. They "lost" viewers and fell to NXT in TV ratings this past week because NXT promoted another gimmick show (which by all accounts, was well received), but 95% of the time, a regular 2-hour show, doesn't hold up against AEW. When the TV ratings have come out for this coming week (Thursday), no doubt, you'll see AEW back on top again. The only thing that may hurt both shows this week, is the Presidential Election. If there's no winner, it's too close to call, some type of emergency decree is needed, or if the extreme chaos ramps-up in the streets over said results, there's not going to be anything TV ratings related, to talk about.


----------



## sim8

La Parka said:


> AEW could give away the tickets and hot cakes and they'd still have no one showing up to that match.





Chip Chipperson said:


> Would you stop? Orange Cassidy is a draw and the next Daniel Bryan.


Chip gets it. Orange is the biggest star in wrestling today, and John Silver is now mainstream thanks to one tweet from Wendys. All the casuals and hardcore fans are gonna tune in for that one. The new boom period begins 7th November


----------



## CM Buck

The Wood said:


> They don’t really have men to see either.


You been doing penis checks?


----------



## Wolf Mark

The build up has been trash but I would never go to a wrestling show at this point in time. Not even prime Austin vs prime Flair.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

oh no! ded again!


----------



## Garty

LifeInCattleClass said:


> oh no! ded again!


Yeah, so dead, they can't even spell dead correctly!


----------



## 3venflow

Garty said:


> Well, before they jump down your throat about "5000 seats", (*EDIT too late) *as has been the case since they started to allow fans into Daily's Place, only 1000 tickets are available for all shows. The number initially was between 800-1200, so they're in the safe-zone still and unless something drastically changes, that could be the new-norm for fans going forward. As usual, it's an overreaction, to a minimal issue. 80 tickets remain out of 1000? The math is pretty easy there, but for arguments sake, it's 8%. The PPV will be a "sell-out", in the way that a sell-out is now classified as. See above.


They can deny it, but some people here are _willing_ AEW to fail and die. My only theory is that they are young-ish and have grown up in a world where only WWE has mattered. Therefore, any little hint of failure and they are all over it with their doomsday prophecies.

Like you said, 80 tickets... wow, big deal! In the current world environment, we should focus more on what _has_ been sold than that _hasn't_. Those 80 tickets will most likely be gone before showtime but even if they're not, AEW are selling tickets while many wrestling/sports promotions are not, so are still making some money.



> And yes, the company is imploding and will close immediately after Full Gear. Take it from the same four or five people, when they say it's "all doom and gloom"... something that's been said for over a year now?!


The reality is, viewed objectively, AEW has longevity and is going nowhere for at least five years. It may fall apart eventually, but they have an infrastructure in place now and a roster that appears to make it sustainable. All the evidence/reports we have is that AEW became quickly profitable, even after the pandemic hit. If AEW was in any sort of limbo, they would be cutting unessential talent, but on the contrary they have _grown_ their roster. They are also very conscious of budgeting and not making the same mistake WCW did - this has been confirmed in interviews and is why they set limits on how much they'd pay to try and entice the likes of Punk to join.

People should be celebrating new promotions. Even if they do think the product is shit, it is allowing MORE wrestlers to make a living and ply their trade on a much bigger scale than the usual indie event.



> Has AEW made a few bad decisions the past 2 weeks... to some yes, to others no. They "lost" viewers and fell to NXT in TV ratings this past week because NXT promoted another gimmick show (which by all accounts, was well received), but 95% of the time, a regular 2-hour show, doesn't hold up against AEW.


As someone who likes to study the data, AEW's ratings are comparative to what they were a year ago. After the first shows, they ranged from 663,000 to 957,000 in the weeks that followed.

Dynamite has in fact not dropped below 700k in its Wednesday night slot since 6/24, whereas the 11/19/19 and 12/18/19 editions both did under 700k.

The time to potentially worry might have been in April when four of the five episodes drew under 700k. They are much more consistent now, as is the demo (which dropped as low as 0.22 in June but is now on a 13-week run of doing 0.30 or higher).


----------



## Garty

3venflow said:


> They can deny it, but some people here are _willing_ AEW to fail and die. My only theory is that they are young-ish and have grown up in a world where only WWE has mattered. Therefore, any little hint of failure and they are all over it with their doomsday prophecies.
> 
> Like you said, 80 tickets... wow, big deal! In the current world environment, we should focus more on what _has_ been sold than that _hasn't_. Those 80 tickets will most likely be gone before showtime but even if they're not, AEW are selling tickets while many wrestling/sports promotions are not, so are still making some money.
> 
> 
> 
> The reality is, viewed objectively, AEW has longevity and is going nowhere for at least five years. It may fall apart eventually, but they have an infrastructure in place now and a roster that appears to make it sustainable. All the evidence/reports we have is that AEW became quickly profitable, even after the pandemic hit. If AEW was in any sort of limbo, they would be cutting unessential talent, but on the contrary they have _grown_ their roster. They are also very conscious of budgeting and not making the same mistake WCW did - this has been confirmed in interviews and is why they set limits on how much they'd pay to try and entice the likes of Punk to join.
> 
> People should be celebrating new promotions. Even if they do think the product is shit, it is allowing MORE wrestlers to make a living and ply their trade on a much bigger scale than the usual indie event.
> 
> 
> 
> As someone who likes to study the data, AEW's ratings are comparative to what they were a year ago. After the first shows, they ranged from 663,000 to 957,000 in the weeks that followed.
> 
> Dynamite has in fact not dropped below 700k in its Wednesday night slot since 6/24, whereas the 11/19/19 and 12/18/19 editions both did under 700k.
> 
> The time to potentially worry might have been in April when four of the five episodes drew under 700k. They are much more consistent now, as is the demo (which dropped as low as 0.22 in June but is now on a 13-week run of doing 0.30 or higher).


As much as I agree with you on most every point, there is NOTHING that AEW can (or will), do right, that's going to appease any of the naysayers and ditch-diggers, that have "predicted" their demise since the very 1st show.


----------



## Geeee

Good. People should be staying home unless they need groceries


----------



## RapShepard

PushCrymeTyme said:


> 80 tickets bruh 80 tickets out of 5000 u haters make it seem like its a wwe show struggling to sell out a full side of the arena for a major ppv
> 
> u people hate aew just to hate at this point
> 
> nfl teams r even having trouble selling tickets & thats the most popular sport in america
> 
> there is this little thing called election week happening during full gear idk maybe you have heard of it u know its only just one of the biggest stay at home & watch the news moments of the entire year oh & not to mention there is a thing called covid 19 pandemic still out there


80 tickets isn't a big deal, but it was made a point to gloat about sellouts so now struggles will be pointed out.


----------



## Klitschko

I dont think any of the "haterz" in this thread said the company was about to die. I dont know where that overreaction came from, but ALL OUT was just a few months ago and that was also during a pandemic and it sold out a lot faster Full Gear. So I think its an interesting thread to see how current AEW during a ppv compares to AEW from few months ago during a ppv


----------



## ireekofawesumnes

PushCrymeTyme said:


> *80 tickets bruh 80 tickets out of 5000* u haters make it seem like its a wwe show struggling to sell out a full side of the arena for a major ppv
> 
> u people hate aew just to hate at this point
> 
> nfl teams r even having trouble selling tickets & thats the most popular sport in america
> 
> there is this little thing called election week happening during full gear idk maybe you have heard of it u know its only just one of the biggest stay at home & watch the news moments of the entire year oh & not to mention there is a thing called covid 19 pandemic still out there


uh...no...
dalys place holds 5,000 at NORMAL max capacity
less than 1,000 tickets were put on sale for this PPV and 80+ remain
thats around 10% remaining for a PPV show thats gonna have less than 1,000 there, for a company that only runs 4 ppv's per year
if you think thats not a problem, well...


----------



## yeahright2

Two Sheds said:


> Sure, blame the virus, not the horrible build. Jacksonville is the largest city in the third largest state in the US by population. But sure, they will be selling out Wembley Stadium soon.


It´s Meltzer, what did you expect?


----------



## One Shed

Garty said:


> As much as I agree with you on most every point, there is NOTHING that AEW can (or will), do right, that's going to appease any of the naysayers and ditch-diggers, that have "predicted" their demise since the very 1st show.


Another strawman argument from you. Why do you insist on arguing against these phantom posters that do not exist? Wanting a company to do better and pointing out the dumb things they do does not suddenly equal predicting their demise. You skipped about 500 steps there. Struggling to sellout sub 1000 seats in the largest city in the third largest state is telling of the horrid buildup of this event. We KNOW they can do better, they just have not this time. That is why many of us are annoyed.


----------



## One Shed

yeahright2 said:


> It´s Meltzer, what did you expect?


"It was the second least best amount of tickets they have sold!" -Meltzer


----------



## Geeee

If AEW had a show nextdoor to me and I knew it would be the best PPV ever, I would still be staying home and watching it away from the plague


----------



## Jokerface17

Two Sheds said:


> Another strawman argument from you. Why do you insist on arguing against these phantom posters that do not exist? Wanting a company to do better and pointing out the dumb things they do does not suddenly equal predicting their demise. You skipped about 500 steps there. Struggling to sellout sub 1000 seats in the largest city in the third largest state is telling of the horrid buildup of this event. We KNOW they can do better, they just have not this time. That is why many of us are annoyed.


Jacksonville isn’t even in the top 10 of the largest cities in America and even if it were, what difference would it make? They’ve been holding shows there since covid started, I’m sure the people in and around Jacksonville are burnt out on going to live shows. The show isn’t “selling out” as fast as ALL OUT because it’s not their “wrestlemania show” but I’d bet just about anything those ~80 tickets will sell by the time the ppv starts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*If you looked at the names on this card 6 months ago, there's no way they wouldn't sell 925 tickets in a matter of hours. The build has been horrible and the shows in their entirety have been worse.*


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Yeh it's all over, lads, AEW going under again 😂


----------



## One Shed

Jokerface17 said:


> Jacksonville isn’t even in the top 10 of the largest cities in America and even if it were, what difference would it make? They’ve been holding shows there since covid started, I’m sure the people in and around Jacksonville are burnt out on going to live shows. The show isn’t “selling out” as fast as ALL OUT because it’s not their “wrestlemania show” but I’d bet just about anything those ~80 tickets will sell by the time the ppv starts.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Because there is no long history of wrestling companies drawing in MUCH smaller cities on a weekly basis for decades? Oh wait, there is. Imagine arguing that people are BURNT OUT of going to live events in a year where there are almost no live events to go to. Are we seriously arguing that we hope that 80 tickets 'might' sell out? This is quite an insane conversation we are having here.

Wait, are you suggesting AEW DOES in fact have a WrestleMania? We were told quite emphatically that AEW not only does not have a WrestleMania equivalent, but does not need one because they are not like WWE AT ALL. So, you are suggesting All Out is their main show? Sources please.


----------



## One Shed

Pentagon Senior said:


> Yeh it's all over, lads, AEW going under again 😂


Hey look, a strawman!


----------



## WWFNoMercyExpert

The tv ticket is also too damn expensive for this day and age! The PPV is more than some of my bills


----------



## shandcraig

La Parka said:


> its john silver.
> 
> hes holding OC back.
> 
> AEW would overtake WWE if they gave OC the title.


Lol you just triggering people. Sits back and eats popcorn


----------



## shandcraig

La Parka said:


> Everyone knows you stay in and watch the news for 3 days straight after an election!



Only an idiot watches news because its no longer news. Just people that get to bitch and cry about people that they dislike on National Television


----------



## TKO Wrestling

WWFNoMercyExpert said:


> The tv ticket is also too damn expensive for this day and age! The PPV is more than some of my bills


I want your bills!!! My lowest is water and it's a $110 minimum.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Cult03 said:


> This. AEW should be flogging WWE's developmental brand every single week. AEW has legit WWE main eventers/upper midcarders on every week, their roster should be far better at this point but it isn't. AEW should be doing better


Only problem is AEW doesn't have that nifty little WWE logo on the screen. That hurts them, and will hurt them for atleast a decade, more than people realize.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

80 out of 5k in a world where many stay home ..ok then ...it's more fans than wwe had for wm


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Lol @ the amount of people with no reading comprehension thinking it's 80/5000 tickets.*


----------



## Chip Chipperson

PushCrymeTyme said:


> 80 tickets bruh 80 tickets out of 5000 u haters make it seem like its a wwe show struggling to sell out a full side of the arena for a major ppv
> 
> u people hate aew just to hate at this point
> 
> nfl teams r even having trouble selling tickets & thats the most popular sport in america
> 
> there is this little thing called election week happening during full gear idk maybe you have heard of it u know its only just one of the biggest stay at home & watch the news moments of the entire year oh & not to mention there is a thing called covid 19 pandemic still out there





LifeInCattleClass said:


> oh no! ded again!





Garty said:


> As much as I agree with you on most every point, there is NOTHING that AEW can (or will), do right, that's going to appease any of the naysayers and ditch-diggers, that have "predicted" their demise since the very 1st show.


Oooof.



Jokerface17 said:


> Jacksonville isn’t even in the top 10 of the largest cities in America and even if it were, what difference would it make? They’ve been holding shows there since covid started, I’m sure the people in and around Jacksonville are burnt out on going to live shows. The show isn’t “selling out” as fast as ALL OUT because it’s not their “wrestlemania show” but I’d bet just about anything those ~80 tickets will sell by the time the ppv starts.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Burn out going to live events doesn't really exist my guy. Territories used to run the same buildings and towns every week and draw because they were good and events were must see.

ECW and TNA did the same. Every two weeks they'd pack their respective buildings and never suffer any burn out.

Stop excusing poor AEW shows



Pentagon Senior said:


> Yeh it's all over, lads, AEW going under again 😂


Nobody said that but it's certainly not good that it's seemingly losing a lot of interest.



Botchy SinCara said:


> 80 out of 5k in a world where many stay home ..ok then ...it's more fans than wwe had for wm


Because that's a fair comparison...


----------



## TheDraw

Chip Chipperson said:


> Hmm.
> 
> - Ratings dropping (News, presidential debate, sports are blamed)
> 
> - Forums such as this one talking about AEW less (Me and my buddies get the blame)
> 
> - More criticisms for AEW (Multiple accounts and haters blamed)
> 
> - Slow ticket sales (COVID is blamed)
> 
> 
> Reality? A mixture of AEW's freshness slowly wearing off and it's bad shows are resulting in a lack of interest. Not good at all.


Let's be real.

A lot of people are just clinging to AEW because of the Monday Night Wars type hype it generated.

The first year was a given that they would do ok. My real question is when all of that wears off, will those same fans still tune in for the long hall when the horrible booking is all they have left to cling on.

To me the product just feels like a glorified ROH which is not good. Better than the WWE if that makes people happy, but not a good show.

All you have to look at how much disarray the WWE is in with their booking and compare it to AEW and you realize that they aren't much better if at all. 

I'm not gonna praise one over the other. They both suck.


----------



## Erik.

Is it shocking that some people are hesitant about going to a wrestling show during a pandemic?


----------



## Chan Hung

I mean they have been in the same area weekly right? After a while it loses appeal i would think. If they were in my area each week it would definitely lose some appeal.


----------



## P Thriller

Maybe the pandemic is playing stole in this, who knows. I will say though that this build hasn't gotten me very excited for the event and honestly AEW doesn't always deliver on their PPVs. I find their weekly tv to be their strong suit. The complete opposite from NXT honestly. It was only a matter of time though before this product got tested. It is always more fun when all the characters and matchups are fresh, this is where the hard work come in now to keep people engaged.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

TheDraw said:


> Let's be real.
> 
> A lot of people are just clinging to AEW because of the Monday Night Wars type hype it generated.
> 
> The first year was a given that they would do ok. My real question is when all of that wears off, will those same fans still tune in for the long hall when the horrible booking is all they have left to cling on.
> 
> To me the product just feels like a glorified ROH which is not good. Better than the WWE if that makes people happy, but not a good show.
> 
> All you have to look at how much disarray the WWE is in with their booking and compare it to AEW and you realize that they aren't much better if at all.
> 
> I'm not gonna praise one over the other. They both suck.


*Smackdown has had consistently better booking than AEW since Roman Reigns came back. The only shit show they're running right now is RAW. NXT is just meh. There's nothing must see about it outside of the women.*


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Chan Hung said:


> I mean they have been in the same area weekly right? After a while it loses appeal i would think. If they were in my area each week it would definitely lose some appeal.


*If WWE was filming in your neighborhood every week, would you not still go to the Royal Rumble?*


----------



## Joe Gill

this ppv has a great overall card when compared to previous ppvs but the build is the worst I have ever seen. AEW should b embarrassed for the lead up to the ppv.... I honestly cant think of a poorer job.... they had 3 freaking months since the last ppv to build this... and its been a train wreck. Tony Khan should resign as the main writer of the show... he clearly doesnt understand the american tv audience or how to build proper feuds. 

Its only going to get worse moving forward... when you look at the top stars they have now already used up most of the major feud combinations (moxley vs jericho, moxley vs omega, moxley vs mjf, moxley vs archer, moxley vs cage) (omega vs jericho, omega vs page) (jericho vs mjf, jericho vs cody, cody vs mjf)

soon they will be rehashing old feuds and its going to get even more stale. they will be desperate and guys like OC and Allen will be getting more world title shots and AEW will officialy jump the shark.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Hot damn, I never thought when Dynamite was doing 1 million viewers that they would ever lose to NXT ever again. That is quite a shift. This is why doing wrestling shows is tricky and you cannot afford to lose your audience. And when you have a success, you better capitalizes on it and not drop the ball. This is when the WWF was doing great ratings of 5 in the late 90s, they kept their audience and grew them to 8 million viewers(the This is your life segment). 

Also: Lumis > OC


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Joe Gill said:


> this ppv has a great overall card when compared to previous ppvs but the build is the worst I have ever seen. AEW should b embarrassed for the lead up to the ppv.... I honestly cant think of a poorer job.... they had 3 freaking months since the last ppv to build this... and its been a train wreck. Tony Khan should resign as the main writer of the show... he clearly doesnt understand the american tv audience or how to build proper feuds.
> 
> Its only going to get worse moving forward... when you look at the top stars they have now already used up most of the major feud combinations (moxley vs jericho, moxley vs omega, moxley vs mjf, moxley vs archer, moxley vs cage) (omega vs jericho, omega vs page) (jericho vs mjf, jericho vs cody, cody vs mjf)
> 
> soon they will be rehashing old feuds and its going to get even more stale. they will be desperate and guys like OC and Allen will be getting more world title shots and AEW will officialy jump the shark.


*This is exactly how I feel about the most disappointing part of the pay-per-view. The card itself is hella stacked, but the build has literally been the worst I've seen with talents of this caliber. Imagine someone telling you a year ago that you wouldn't give a shit about the Young Bucks vs FTR or Chris Jericho vs MJF. You'd probably call them stupid and ask "who wouldn't be hype about the two best tag teams and two best heels outside of WWE going at it?"*


----------



## Shock Street

I saw an ad for a small, one-off, family-run fish and chips restaraunt in I think... Maryland? on AEW once so its gotta be cheap. Not trying to stir shit but it was genuinely an old lady and her adult sons selling fish and chips. I don't watch WWE period so I don't have any examples for them unfortunately. I really hope someone can verify that this happened because it felt like a local access ad, about a month or so ago.

I know I have the Canadian flag but this was on American TV on TNT (gotta get that pic-in-pic)


----------



## Chip Chipperson

TheDraw said:


> Let's be real.
> 
> A lot of people are just clinging to AEW because of the Monday Night Wars type hype it generated.
> 
> The first year was a given that they would do ok. My real question is when all of that wears off, will those same fans still tune in for the long hall when the horrible booking is all they have left to cling on.
> 
> To me the product just feels like a glorified ROH which is not good. Better than the WWE if that makes people happy, but not a good show.
> 
> All you have to look at how much disarray the WWE is in with their booking and compare it to AEW and you realize that they aren't much better if at all.
> 
> I'm not gonna praise one over the other. They both suck.


Glorified ROH is harsh to ROH. At least ROH has generally respected wrestling and been a logical spots style approach wrestling product.

And yes, you're right, I think it's a mixture of people desperately wanting another wrestling war, hating the WWE and loving these guys for whatever reason.



Chan Hung said:


> I mean they have been in the same area weekly right? After a while it loses appeal i would think. If they were in my area each week it would definitely lose some appeal.


Again, as I just said many wrestling companies have done this and are still doing this to great success. Jim Cornette gets shit on all the time here but he had people being turned away from his venues at times t get into his TV tapings.

Territories did it every week selling thousands of tickets to the same arenas, ECW and TNA are two great examples also. TNA was actually so hot that you had to book tickets in advance for it.

Speaking of which, TV shows with live studio audiences never suffer from burnout either despite being in the same city every taping.



Joe Gill said:


> this ppv has a great overall card when compared to previous ppvs but the build is the worst I have ever seen. AEW should b embarrassed for the lead up to the ppv.... I honestly cant think of a poorer job.... they had 3 freaking months since the last ppv to build this... and its been a train wreck. Tony Khan should resign as the main writer of the show... he clearly doesnt understand the american tv audience or how to build proper feuds.
> 
> Its only going to get worse moving forward... when you look at the top stars they have now already used up most of the major feud combinations (moxley vs jericho, moxley vs omega, moxley vs mjf, moxley vs archer, moxley vs cage) (omega vs jericho, omega vs page) (jericho vs mjf, jericho vs cody, cody vs mjf)
> 
> soon they will be rehashing old feuds and its going to get even more stale. they will be desperate and guys like OC and Allen will be getting more world title shots and AEW will officialy jump the shark.


I pointed this out (Them not knowing what they're doing) 6 months ago









AEW Has No Idea...


I know they have their fans here but after the abomination of a show we got this week I genuinely need to point out how much of a clue this company doesn't have. I understand writing 2 hours of TV each week is hard work and that we're in the midst of a pandemic right now but when the same old...




www.wrestlingforum.com





First response was someone telling me I'm wrong. I have now been proven right.


----------



## The Wood

Garty said:


> Well, before they jump down your throat about "5000 seats", (*EDIT too late) *as has been the case since they started to allow fans into Daily's Place, only 1000 tickets are available for all shows. The number initially was between 800-1200, so they're in the safe-zone still and unless something drastically changes, that could be the new-norm for fans going forward. As usual, it's an overreaction, to a minimal issue. 80 tickets remain out of 1000? The math is pretty easy there, but for arguments sake, it's 8%. The PPV will be a "sell-out", in the way that a sell-out is now classified as. See above.
> 
> And yes, the company is imploding and will close immediately after Full Gear. Take it from the same four or five people, when they say it's "all doom and gloom"... something that's been said for over a year now?!
> 
> Has AEW made a few bad decisions the past 2 weeks... to some yes, to others no. They "lost" viewers and fell to NXT in TV ratings this past week because NXT promoted another gimmick show (which by all accounts, was well received), but 95% of the time, a regular 2-hour show, doesn't hold up against AEW. When the TV ratings have come out for this coming week (Thursday), no doubt, you'll see AEW back on top again. The only thing that may hurt both shows this week, is the Presidential Election. If there's no winner, it's too close to call, some type of emergency decree is needed, or if the extreme chaos ramps-up in the streets over said results, there's not going to be anything TV ratings related, to talk about.


What are people supposed to do? _Not_ call out bullshit? And why is it totally fine for you to criticise AEW, but everyone else deserves an eye-roll? You are acting self-important.

No one is predicting the imminent demise of the company. Stop lying. 



Firefromthegods said:


> You been doing penis checks?


The Young Bucks certainly have. Check out the cover of their book.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> oh no! ded again!


No one said that.



3venflow said:


> They can deny it, but some people here are _willing_ AEW to fail and die. My only theory is that they are young-ish and have grown up in a world where only WWE has mattered. Therefore, any little hint of failure and they are all over it with their doomsday prophecies.
> 
> Like you said, 80 tickets... wow, big deal! In the current world environment, we should focus more on what _has_ been sold than that _hasn't_. Those 80 tickets will most likely be gone before showtime but even if they're not, AEW are selling tickets while many wrestling/sports promotions are not, so are still making some money.
> 
> 
> 
> The reality is, viewed objectively, AEW has longevity and is going nowhere for at least five years. It may fall apart eventually, but they have an infrastructure in place now and a roster that appears to make it sustainable. All the evidence/reports we have is that AEW became quickly profitable, even after the pandemic hit. If AEW was in any sort of limbo, they would be cutting unessential talent, but on the contrary they have _grown_ their roster. They are also very conscious of budgeting and not making the same mistake WCW did - this has been confirmed in interviews and is why they set limits on how much they'd pay to try and entice the likes of Punk to join.
> 
> People should be celebrating new promotions. Even if they do think the product is shit, it is allowing MORE wrestlers to make a living and ply their trade on a much bigger scale than the usual indie event.
> 
> 
> 
> As someone who likes to study the data, AEW's ratings are comparative to what they were a year ago. After the first shows, they ranged from 663,000 to 957,000 in the weeks that followed.
> 
> Dynamite has in fact not dropped below 700k in its Wednesday night slot since 6/24, whereas the 11/19/19 and 12/18/19 editions both did under 700k.
> 
> The time to potentially worry might have been in April when four of the five episodes drew under 700k. They are much more consistent now, as is the demo (which dropped as low as 0.22 in June but is now on a 13-week run of doing 0.30 or higher).


*Just because you don’t like AEW it doesn’t mean you love WWE.*



RapShepard said:


> 80 tickets isn't a big deal, but it was made a point to gloat about sellouts so now struggles will be pointed out.


Ding, ding, ding. 



Jokerface17 said:


> Jacksonville isn’t even in the top 10 of the largest cities in America and even if it were, what difference would it make? They’ve been holding shows there since covid started, I’m sure the people in and around Jacksonville are burnt out on going to live shows. The show isn’t “selling out” as fast as ALL OUT because it’s not their “wrestlemania show” but I’d bet just about anything those ~80 tickets will sell by the time the ppv starts.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Remember when wrestling used to draw in towns every week?



Pentagon Senior said:


> Yeh it's all over, lads, AEW going under again 😂


No. One. Said. That. 



Botchy SinCara said:


> 80 out of 5k in a world where many stay home ..ok then ...it's more fans than wwe had for wm


Uhhhh, who’s going to tell this guy? 



TheDraw said:


> Let's be real.
> 
> A lot of people are just clinging to AEW because of the Monday Night Wars type hype it generated.
> 
> The first year was a given that they would do ok. My real question is when all of that wears off, will those same fans still tune in for the long hall when the horrible booking is all they have left to cling on.
> 
> To me the product just feels like a glorified ROH which is not good. Better than the WWE if that makes people happy, but not a good show.
> 
> All you have to look at how much disarray the WWE is in with their booking and compare it to AEW and you realize that they aren't much better if at all.
> 
> I'm not gonna praise one over the other. They both suck.


Bingo. This is why I don’t get the people who act like AEW being fresh somehow works against them. That is when they had all their goodwill. They haven’t built off that.


----------



## Dickhead1990

Who would be stupid enough to buy tickets to a show during a pandemic though? It's not surprising at all. I don't care if it's The Rolling Stones playing, ticket sales will struggle now.


----------



## Garty

Two Sheds said:


> Hey look, a strawman!


Can't you come up with more redundant "go-to" opinions?! Jesus Christ... it's either this one, or "echo chamber", or "if that's the hill you want to die on", or, "show me where I said that", or "I need proof", etc.

What happened to Lheurch? You used to be half decent to talk with, but over the past few months, you've become just another one of "them". Of course, you'll say that's not true, blah, blah, blah, but it is. You no longer post... you just shit on it now. You were never like that and you know it.


----------



## The Wood

Garty said:


> Can't you come up with more redundant "go-to" opinions?! Jesus Christ... it's either this one, or "echo chamber", or "if that's the hill you want to die on", or, "show me where I said that", or "I need proof", etc.
> 
> What happened to Lheurch? You used to be half decent to talk with, but over the past few months, you've become just another one of "them". Of course, you'll say that's not true, blah, blah, blah, but it is. You no longer post... you just shit on it now. You were never like that and you know it.


Hahaha, those pesky people pointing out when you misquote them. And how dare they ask for evidence.



Dickhead1990 said:


> Who would be stupid enough to buy tickets to a show during a pandemic though? It's not surprising at all. I don't care if it's The Rolling Stones playing, ticket sales will struggle now.


Didn’t they sell out All Out?


----------



## Dickhead1990

The Wood said:


> Didn’t they sell out All Out?


I believe they did, but they had less than 800 available. Either way, to sell 800 tickets in a pandemic is miraculous! I say this in a country which is locking down again on Thursday!


----------



## Garty

_What are people supposed to do? Not call out bullshit? And why is it totally fine for you to criticise AEW, but everyone else deserves an eye-roll? You are acting self-important.

No one is predicting the imminent demise of the company. Stop lying._

Are you for real Wood?! *No one* *has predicted* the demise of AEW?! Cornette had his hand up your ass since last year, talking about how they'll be off the air, moving timeslots, being cancelled... *you don't* *remember* *any of that?!*

How long can you continue to criticize? I'll tell you... much too long! I'm self-important?!  Listen to your own words, go back and read through your thousands of posts and I think you'll find that you're the person who claims to know what's good and what's bad and if they don't know, you'll let them know it.


----------



## The Wood

Garty said:


> _What are people supposed to do? Not call out bullshit? And why is it totally fine for you to criticise AEW, but everyone else deserves an eye-roll? You are acting self-important.
> 
> No one is predicting the imminent demise of the company. Stop lying._
> 
> Are you for real Wood?! *No one* *has predicted* the demise of AEW?! Cornette had his hand up your ass since last year, talking about how they'll be off the air, moving timeslots, being cancelled... *you don't* *remember* *any of that?!*
> 
> How long can you continue to criticize? I'll tell you... much too long! I'm self-important?!  Listen to your own words, go back and read through your thousands of posts and I think you'll find that you're the person who claims to know what's good and what's bad and if they don't know, you'll let them know it.


Find me one post of someone predicting the demise of AEW in this thread. Not on Cornette’s podcast in 2019, I mean in this thread where you are whinging about “doom and gloom.” Don’t change the subject and either back up what you’re saying or admit you just lied about it.

I don’t even know why I am responding to this, but while Cornette may have exaggerated them being pulled off TNT, my opinion has *always* been that the Khans have the money to play, and they can keep AEW alive for as long as they want, and can even buy their own cable station to air it if they want to. Yes, I have predicted that TNT are more likely to move Dynamite than USA is to move NXT, and I stand by that prediction. What of it?

Yeah, I believe in my opinions and ability to reason. Yes, you’re self-important. Usually every post from you is an eye-roll at people not conforming to your opinion—not an argument or discussion, an eye-roll—and you crying because the mods won’t ban people for not sharing your views, because you want the boards to be exactly the way you want them. That you have the audacity to act like anyone who criticises AEW is a piece of crap that needs to be banned, then go “Does AEW make mistakes? _I_ think so,” just backs that up.

Also, why did you quote me in italics? Wouldn’t it have just been easier to use the quote function. Someone got weirdly mad at me because I couldn’t find their post once and responded to it generally, but you’ve actually gone out of your way to find my post, copy it, italicise it, and then post it in a way that wouldn’t notify me.

You’re fucking sneaky too.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Find me one post of someone predicting the demise of AEW in this thread. Not on Cornette’s podcast in 2019, I mean in this thread where you are whinging about “doom and gloom.” Don’t change the subject and either back up what you’re saying or admit you just lied about it.
> 
> I don’t even know why I am responding to this, but while Cornette may have exaggerated them being pulled off TNT, my opinion has *always* been that the Khans have the money to play, and they can keep AEW alive for as long as they want, and can even buy their own cable station to air it if they want to. Yes, I have predicted that TNT are more likely to move Dynamite than USA is to move NXT, and I stand by that prediction. What of it?
> 
> Yeah, I believe in my opinions and ability to reason. Yes, you’re self-important. Usually every post from you is an eye-roll at people not conforming to your opinion—not an argument or discussion, an eye-roll—and you crying because the mods won’t ban people for not sharing your views, because you want the boards to be exactly the way you want them. That you have the audacity to act like anyone who criticises AEW is a piece of crap that needs to be banned, then go “Does AEW make mistakes? _I_ think so,” just backs that up.
> 
> Also, why did you quote me in italics? Wouldn’t it have just been easier to use the quote function. Someone got weirdly mad at me because I couldn’t find their post once and responded to it generally, but you’ve actually gone out of your way to find my post, copy it, italicise it, and then post it in a way that wouldn’t notify me.
> 
> You’re fucking sneaky too.


I’d venture to guess he didn’t quote you, because he is either avoiding being banned for baiting (which I weirdly got banned for doing once when I was literally only quoting you and bullshitting like always) or he genuinely has you on ignore but uses a secondary way to keep up to date with you, which is fucking creepy.


----------



## One Shed

It is also funny that Melzer apparently said t


Garty said:


> Can't you come up with more redundant "go-to" opinions?! Jesus Christ... it's either this one, or "echo chamber", or "if that's the hill you want to die on", or, "show me where I said that", or "I need proof", etc.
> 
> What happened to Lheurch? You used to be half decent to talk with, but over the past few months, you've become just another one of "them". Of course, you'll say that's not true, blah, blah, blah, but it is. You no longer post... you just shit on it now. You were never like that and you know it.


I post in almost all the live threads. When the product becomes worse, I tend to view it more negatively, sadly. I do not enjoy seeing that happen.

For this specifically, I was responding to another black and white post. If anyone says ANYTHING negative about AEW, a lot of people respond with "oh it must be closing up tomorrow then" like anyone actually said that. When the product has gotten worse over the past two months (and you can see the overall opinions on here reflecting that) then things like this will happen. I HOPE they notice this and make an effort to shift gears. If they do that, then you will see more positive posts from a lot of us. It is not like I suddenly just randomly got in a bad mood or something. Cause and effect.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> I’d venture to guess he didn’t quote you, because he is either avoiding being banned for baiting (which I weirdly got banned for doing once when I was literally only quoting you and bullshitting like always) or he genuinely has you on ignore but uses a secondary way to keep up to date with you, which is fucking creepy.


Haha, you got banned for baiting me? Sorry man. I understand why there are those rules, but if it were up to me you could bait me all you wanted. It works both ways. See you in the Omega thread. ;-)


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Haha, you got banned for baiting me? Sorry man. I understand why there are those rules, but if it were up to me you could bait me all you wanted. It works both ways. See you in the Omega thread. ;-)


I didn’t realize I was even baiting you. I think it was a post where I was genuinely talking to you, but it got lumped in with a mass of posts that were being reported between a couple of guys.

I felt like Ricky in Boyz in the Hood, just minding my own business and getting caught in some BS gang wars. Lmao


----------



## Pablo Escobar

Doesn't help the fans that they run all their weekly shows at the same venue. I gotta imagine the weekly shows add up; especially if you make it to all of them.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> I didn’t realize I was even baiting you. I think it was a post where I was genuinely talking to you, but it got lumped in with a mass of posts that were being reported between a couple of guys.
> 
> I felt like Ricky in Boyz in the Hood, just minding my own business and getting caught in some BS gang wars. Lmao


Oh, I use the term in jest. I’ve been caught in similar things on here. I didn’t even make a stink about it, but I had a ban on here overturned, because I think someone must have reviewed it and thought “Hang on.”

Eh, the mods are only human, and at least you’re still around. I’m glad they don’t go ban-happy because blind praisers of the company call for it.


----------



## bdon

Your Omega hate don’t bother me. I know you love the BDon. Lol


----------



## 3venflow

Ticketmaster are trying to sell some tickets for $200-$300, no wonder people aren't snapping up the last batch. However, more than All Out have already been sold due to the slight increase in capacity.

BTW, AEW/Ticketmaster are selling tickets for shows in New Orleans (Dec 2nd), Albuquerque, Newark, Philly, Boston, Rochester and other places. Are they going back on the road? Seems strange to be selling tickets for shows as soon as four weeks from now.


----------



## The Wood

What’s the excuse going to be if they don’t sell out there? Surely those audiences aren’t burnt out.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Wood said:


> What’s the excuse going to be if they don’t sell out there? Surely those audiences aren’t burnt out.


The pandemic followed by people not having a lot of money due to the pandemic


----------



## Pippen94

Wait there is something going in world which is ramping up in northern hemisphere, what is it again??.... Oh yeah, COVID!!!!!


----------



## qntntgood

The Wood said:


> What’s the excuse going to be if they don’t sell out there? Surely those audiences aren’t burnt out.


The thrill is gone and so is the new toy feel,aew has to do something fast because they are losing momentum.


----------



## TheDraw

So many ratings experts in this thread. You'd think some big company would have hired some of you to do their ratings analysis by now


----------



## Garty

The Wood said:


> Find me one post of someone predicting the demise of AEW in this thread. Not on Cornette’s podcast in 2019, I mean in this thread where you are whinging about “doom and gloom.” Don’t change the subject and either back up what you’re saying or admit you just lied about it.
> 
> I don’t even know why I am responding to this, but while Cornette may have exaggerated them being pulled off TNT, my opinion has *always* been that the Khans have the money to play, and they can keep AEW alive for as long as they want, and can even buy their own cable station to air it if they want to. Yes, I have predicted that TNT are more likely to move Dynamite than USA is to move NXT, and I stand by that prediction. What of it?
> 
> Yeah, I believe in my opinions and ability to reason. Yes, you’re self-important. Usually every post from you is an eye-roll at people not conforming to your opinion—not an argument or discussion, an eye-roll—and you crying because the mods won’t ban people for not sharing your views, because you want the boards to be exactly the way you want them. That you have the audacity to act like anyone who criticises AEW is a piece of crap that needs to be banned, then go “Does AEW make mistakes? _I_ think so,” just backs that up.
> 
> Also, why did you quote me in italics? Wouldn’t it have just been easier to use the quote function. Someone got weirdly mad at me because I couldn’t find their post once and responded to it generally, but you’ve actually gone out of your way to find my post, copy it, italicise it, and then post it in a way that wouldn’t notify me.
> 
> You’re fucking sneaky too.


Is that better Wood? Are you that egotistical that you need people to see everything you wrote a second time? These pages are already long enough. No one wants to scroll down the page for a mile, just to get to the next one. And I think we all know that you'd have no problem whatsoever, finding someone talking about you, any time of day or night.

I have lifted the block on all of those I had on ignore because I really don't care what the consequences are now. This forum, AEW in particular, is an overflowing cesspool of constant repeated narratives and all-out negativity. The negative far outweighs the positive and it's become completely useless to exhibit any sort of support towards AEW, without five or six guys pouncing on every word you've written. No user "must explain" to you or anyone else here, why they like something that you may not, no matter how many times you ask a user to "back up your opinions" of what they have said. It's already been said what that user thinks, so why do you continue on with more questions?

This is my post... taken from your "appreciation thread" in the rants section and explains everything you need to know about yourself and how you project your "perception of reality", onto most users of this forum. I'm not going to respond to any reply you may write. We've both said the same shit to each other a thousand times now, so, to use the old cliche, we agree to disagree.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Garty said:


> Is that better Wood? Are you that egotistical that you need people to see everything you wrote a second time? These pages are already long enough. No one wants to scroll down the page for a mile, just to get to the next one. And I think we all know that you'd have no problem whatsoever, finding someone talking about you, any time of day or night.
> 
> I have lifted the block on all of those I had on ignore because I really don't care what the consequences are now. This forum, AEW in particular, is an overflowing cesspool of constant repeated narratives and all-out negativity. The negative far outweighs the positive and it's become completely useless to exhibit any sort of support towards AEW, without five or six guys pouncing on every word you've written. No user "must explain" to you or anyone else here, why they like something that you may not, no matter how many times you ask a user to "back up your opinions" of what they have said. It's already been said what that user thinks, so why do you continue on with more questions?
> 
> This is my post... taken from your "appreciation thread" in the rants section and explains everything you need to know about yourself and how you project your "perception of reality", onto most users of this forum. I'm not going to respond to any reply you may write. We've both said the same shit to each other a thousand times now, so, to use the old cliche, we agree to disagree.


You're not allowed to attack people in this thread anymore.

AEW has more negative towards it because it's bad bro. Wake up. Do you honestly think we're so influential that we can convince people to change their minds? You're seeing more negative everywhere because it's bad.

Ratings reflect that, attendance reflects that and eventually buyrate and general lack of interest will reflect that


----------



## Kentucky34

Look, AEW isn't living up to the hype, both critically and commercially. 

Its fans and Dave Meltzer need to accept that and stop spinning things to make themselves feel better about themselves. Maybe then the company will also accept that they are failing hard and work harder to improve their shows.


----------



## Kentucky34

Chip Chipperson said:


> You're not allowed to attack people in this thread anymore.
> 
> AEW has more negative towards it because it's bad bro. Wake up. Do you honestly think we're so influential that we can convince people to change their minds? You're seeing more negative everywhere because it's bad.
> 
> Ratings reflect that, attendance reflects that and eventually buyrate and general lack of interest will reflect that


This x100


----------



## Garty

Chip Chipperson said:


> You're not allowed to attack people in this thread anymore.


Yeah, thanks for pointing that out Captain Obvious. Although that hasn't stopped you guys from clogging this new thread with the same bullshit you've said in all the other threads. Go back to the first page, re-read the "new rules" and then re-read some of the posts made after that post. It gets pretty shitty, pretty quick.


----------



## omaroo

The longer the elite and TK think AEW and product their putting out is perfect the more worst shit will get.

AEW has hit its ceiling they arent growing simple. Only way is down for them imo.


----------



## Kentucky34

omaroo said:


> The longer the elite and TK think AEW and product their putting out is perfect the more worst shit will get.
> 
> AEW has hit its ceiling they arent growing simple. Only way is down for them imo.


100%


----------



## Lurcher

Kentucky34 said:


> Look, AEW isn't living up to the hype, both critically and commercially.
> 
> Its fans and Dave Meltzer need to accept that and stop spinning things to make themselves feel better about themselves. Maybe then the company will also accept that they are failing hard and work harder to improve their shows.


AEW was finished the second they let abominations like Marko Stunt be competitive with anybody over the height of 5'7. It is only a matter of time until the ratings drop below 600k regularly.


----------



## Lurcher

Garty said:


> Yeah, thanks for pointing that out Captain Obvious. Although that hasn't stopped you guys from clogging this new thread with the same bullshit you've said in all the other threads. Go back to the first page, re-read the "new rules" and then re-read some of the posts made after that post. It gets pretty shitty, pretty quick.


It would be nice if you could refrain from insulting people for having a different opinion, Garty.


----------



## Cult03

Garty said:


> As much as I agree with you on most every point, there is NOTHING that AEW can (or will), do right, that's going to appease any of the naysayers and ditch-diggers, that have "predicted" their demise since the very 1st show.


Do you ever argue points that are actually made? You guys can duck and weave legitimate arguments but somehow reply with sarcastic "AEW is dying" bullshit that nobody is saying. It's not lost on me that you often don't respond to anyone in particular and avoid legitimate discussions to post bullshit like this, but I just don't understand how anyone thinks you're on the right side here. 

Likewise, how could we make you happy Garty? You want us to listen to Rusev and just take whatever AEW throws at us with no criticism, like you and your mates do?


----------



## Pippen94

Garty said:


> Is that better Wood? Are you that egotistical that you need people to see everything you wrote a second time? These pages are already long enough. No one wants to scroll down the page for a mile, just to get to the next one. And I think we all know that you'd have no problem whatsoever, finding someone talking about you, any time of day or night.
> 
> I have lifted the block on all of those I had on ignore because I really don't care what the consequences are now. This forum, AEW in particular, is an overflowing cesspool of constant repeated narratives and all-out negativity. The negative far outweighs the positive and it's become completely useless to exhibit any sort of support towards AEW, without five or six guys pouncing on every word you've written. No user "must explain" to you or anyone else here, why they like something that you may not, no matter how many times you ask a user to "back up your opinions" of what they have said. It's already been said what that user thinks, so why do you continue on with more questions?
> 
> This is my post... taken from your "appreciation thread" in the rants section and explains everything you need to know about yourself and how you project your "perception of reality", onto most users of this forum. I'm not going to respond to any reply you may write. We've both said the same shit to each other a thousand times now, so, to use the old cliche, we agree to disagree.


Don't get pulled into his neurosis - guy wastes days on here talking nonsense - don't waste your time


----------



## Lurcher

Pippen94 said:


> Don't get pulled into his neurosis - guy wastes days on here talking nonsense - don't waste your time


Could you please refrain from attacking other posters, directly or indirectly? Thank you.


----------



## Klitschko

Pippen94 said:


> Don't get pulled into his neurosis - guy wastes days on here talking nonsense - don't waste your time


Why do you guys always insult other members? He might post a lot and he doesn't like current AEW but him, Chip and some of the other people have never gone after people personally and attacked them like that? Yes he doesn't like AEW and thinks they suck, so what? He's allowed to say his opinion in every single thread if he wants too.


----------



## Wolf Mark

All the excuses that other site are giving of AEW losing the ratings over NXT goes into science-fiction territory at this point.


----------



## Lurcher

Klitschko said:


> Why do you guys always insult other members? He might post a lot and he doesn't like current AEW but him, Chip and some of the other people have never gone after people personally and attacked them like that? Yes he doesn't like AEW and thinks they suck, so what? He's allowed to say his opinion in every single thread if he wants too.


If in doubt, attack the poster when you are unable to attack the point being discussed, instead.


----------



## TheDraw

Garty said:


> Is that better Wood? Are you that egotistical that you need people to see everything you wrote a second time? These pages are already long enough. No one wants to scroll down the page for a mile, just to get to the next one. And I think we all know that you'd have no problem whatsoever, finding someone talking about you, any time of day or night.
> 
> I have lifted the block on all of those I had on ignore because I really don't care what the consequences are now. This forum, AEW in particular, is an overflowing cesspool of constant repeated narratives and all-out negativity. The negative far outweighs the positive and it's become completely useless to exhibit *any sort of support towards AEW*, without five or six guys pouncing on every word you've written. No user "must explain" to you or anyone else here, why they like something that you may not, no matter how many times you ask a user to "back up your opinions" of what they have said. It's already been said what that user thinks, so why do you continue on with more questions?
> 
> This is my post... taken from your "appreciation thread" in the rants section and explains everything you need to know about yourself and how you project your "perception of reality", onto most users of this forum. I'm not going to respond to any reply you may write. We've both said the same shit to each other a thousand times now, so, to use the old cliche, we agree to disagree.


I think you are the one with a "perception of reality" problem my friend. It's clear that some of us view professional wrestling as a TV show and some of us view it as something entirely different. Why does AEW have to have our "support" as you say? And why are you blocking those that talk negatively about the show? I mean, it ain't all roses and sunshine. I guess if you want to close yourself off in your own little world or bubble where you are surrounded by only posters who love everything about AEW then I guess go for it.

Some of you AEW fan's need to seriously get thicker skin. The backlash that AEW is receiving now isn't anything compared to the storm of hate that the TNA section has received in the past. Even the mods themselves baited posters and shit on TNA  every chance they got and it still continues today even when the section has been reduced to baron wasteland. I used to love TNA and it seemed like everyone else found a reason to hate it but not once did I think that the negative criticism wasn't valid in most cases even though they didn't personally stop me from enjoying the show. 

If there are no problems with AEW then those with negative opinions wouldn't have so much ammo when pointing out negative aspects of the show. Negative criticism isn't exclusive to AEW and most people don't have a grudge against AEW at all. There is no target on the company, the company just isn't very good right now.

Notice when a wrestling company does something correct and genuinely entertaining, you see almost no negative criticism and the reviews are usually positive across the board. That positivity usually drowns out the haters to the point where they're voice isn't heard. These companies OWE us for investing OUR time to watch their products not the other way around. They aren't paying me or anybody else besides maybe Meltzer to be their own personal cheerleader.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Bring in Eric Bischoff.

A wrestling tv show needs a story for the show/company itself.


----------



## bdon

The show has taken a massive fucking nosedive since the pandemic hit, but it saw an uptick just prior to and post All Out.

When the show is under heavy Jericho and Cody influences, it tends to fucking suck. When it isn’t, it tends to suck less.

Send Jericho for a vacation to recharge his batteries. Remind Cody that he isn’t and hasn’t ever been a massive star and doesn’t need to be taking tv time from those that got him back on the map. Tell him he’s our favorite midcard wrestler.

Do whatever it takes to get those two to stop whatever pissing contest they have going on that has derailed Moxley’s reign, the tag team division, Omega vs Page, Miro’s debut, etc.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> The show has taken a massive fucking nosedive since the pandemic hit, but it saw an uptick just prior to and post All Out.
> 
> When the show is under heavy Jericho and Cody influences, it tends to fucking suck. When it isn’t, it tends to suck less.
> 
> Send Jericho for a vacation to recharge his batteries. Remind Cody that he isn’t and hasn’t ever been a massive star and doesn’t need to be taking tv time from those that got him back on the map. Tell him he’s our favorite midcard wrestler.
> 
> Do whatever it takes to get those two to stop whatever pissing contest they have going on that has derailed Moxley’s reign, the tag team division, Omega vs Page, Miro’s debut, etc.


The Bucks influence sucks too no? The tag match so many people have apparently called for in some circles for a long period of time is pathetic. I have tried to take myself out of it, and the build it still one of the worst in memory.


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> The Bucks influence sucks too no? The tag match so many people have apparently called for in some circles for a long period of time is pathetic. I have tried to take myself out of it, and the build it still one of the worst in memory.


Give me the Bucks over whatever the fuck Cody has been doing since his return.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> Give me the Bucks over whatever the fuck Cody has been doing since his return.


Can I choose neither?


----------



## La Parka

Two Sheds said:


> Can I choose neither?


then you get 24 hours of Miro.


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> Can I choose neither?


Unfortunately we don’t get to choose shit, because Cody is going to Cody regardless.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> Unfortunately we don’t get to choose shit, because Cody is going to Cody regardless.


I dunno. Last I checked we had a majorly schizophrenic product produced by four people and their mark. I have resisted mostly posting anything against Kenny or Cody, though the Bucks booking is clearly trash. I guess we are finally at the point now that we find out whose philosophy wins out, no? What do you think is the end game?


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> I dunno. Last I checked we had a majorly schizophrenic product produced by four people and their mark. I have resisted mostly posting anything against Kenny or Cody, though the Bucks booking is clearly trash. I guess we are finally at the point now that we find out whose philosophy wins out, no? What do you think is the end game?


I honestly have no clue who is writing what anymore. The Hnagman/Omega story was the best thing the company has put together. Just as it is about to get set loose, they move away from that story. Kenny has even taken to BTE and Twitter to subtly bitch about not having time on TV.

I mean, they made sure to leave Hangman and Omega off the goddamn Anniversary episode. I’d say Jericho and Cody’s bullshit is here to stay.

Or well...as long as Tony can continue talking daddy into letting him pal around with them.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> I honestly have no clue who is writing what anymore. The Hnagman/Omega story was the best thing the company has put together. Just as it is about to get set loose, they move away from that story. Kenny has even taken to BTE and Twitter to subtly bitch about not having time on TV.
> 
> I mean, they made sure to leave Hangman and Omega off the goddamn Anniversary episode. I’d say Jericho and Cody’s bullshit is here to stay.
> 
> Or well...as long as Tony can continue talking daddy into letting him pal around with them.


I have cut the company a lot of slack with COVID. The Kenny/Hangman story back then was top notch and I was ready and very willing to give them time to suspend it and start it again. And honestly, I still am. If they blow it out of the water at Full Gear, count me as one of the praisers. We can be sure of one thing though, the Bucks have no idea what they are doing. This is the worst tag team feud I can remember.

But sorry, no I am NEVER going to watch BTE or anything featuring middle school kids putting on a play. If what you say is true and Kenny has been cut off at the knees then it really is alternate WWE. They go full blast for about 20% and then second guess themselves.

The anniversary show was beyond embarrassing and they got the rating they deserved from it.

Going forward, someone needs to stop the monkeys from typing their imitation Shakespeare. I hope someone has been keeping meeting minutes on who has suggested what. I do not care who it is. There are PLENTY of people I have loved as wrestlers who suck behind the scenes so this is not some attempt to stop anyone competent in front of the camera. Someone soon needs to have the balls to stop the creative influence from one or several others though.


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> I have cut the company a lot of slack with COVID. The Kenny/Hangman story back then was top notch and I was ready and very willing to give them time to suspend it and start it again. And honestly, I still am. If they blow it out of the water at Full Gear, count me as one of the praisers. We can be sure of one thing though, the Bucks have no idea what they are doing. This is the worst tag team feud I can remember.
> 
> But sorry, no I am NEVER going to watch BTE or anything featuring middle school kids putting on a play. If what you say is true and Kenny has been cut off at the knees then it really is alternate WWE. They go full blast for about 20% and then second guess themselves.
> 
> The anniversary show was beyond embarrassing and they got the rating they deserved from it.
> 
> Going forward, someone needs to stop the monkeys from typing their imitation Shakespeare. I hope someone has been keeping meeting minutes on who has suggested what. I do not care who it is. There are PLENTY of people I have loved as wrestlers who suck behind the scenes so this is not some attempt to stop anyone competent in front of the camera. Someone soon needs to have the balls to stop the creative influence from one or several others though.


Here’s what anecdotal evidence we have to know there are issues amongst The Elite:

A) show constantly feels like one good hour, one shitty hour,

B) the show had continuity and was actually good with less “mouths to feed” so to speak and Cody on hiatus from the show (I am pretty sure we all enjoyed the show those last 2 weeks or so on the build to All Out, but maybe that was just me),

C) Cody returned, and the show seems to have had the wheels flying off the fucking wagon in every goddamn direction, and the show doesn’t seem to have moved ONE goddamn bit,

D) on BTE you have Kenny flat out mocking the fact that for some reason he wasn’t on the Anniversary show, and on Twitter, he makes a point to says “ _takes out a magnifying glass_ oh, yup! I’m on the card today. barely! Oh, I’m in the Main Event. Funny how things work around here.”

Maybe this is just Weirdo Kenny shit, but the timing seems to clearly be suspicious.

E) Cody hasn’t been on BTE hardly at all since Dynamite began, and he is suddenly popping into Sammy’s YouTube channel, talking to El Fuego and complaining about the Bucks not listening to his ideas for BTE and bitching that there is some “Cody fatigue going on around here, lot of pyro, lot of segment time”

These fuckers hate working together. Khan needs to cut all their fucking power, let them be wrestlers, put someone in power who can tell each where they stand on the fucking totem pole, and be done with it.

By the way, that person does not need to be Dustin Rhodes; I want to make sure the people lining these guys out don’t overthink Cody’s place as Midcard King!


----------



## Cult03

TheDraw said:


> Notice when a wrestling company does something correct and genuinely entertaining, you see almost no negative criticism and the reviews are usually positive across the board. *That positivity usually drowns out the haters to the point where they're voice isn't heard*. These companies OWE us for investing OUR time to watch their products not the other way around. They aren't paying me or anybody else besides maybe Meltzer to be their own personal cheerleader.


That's because when the company does something genuinely entertaining "the haters" are praising the show. This is something that is often looked past by the AEW super fans who need to be the victims, why would we ever say nice things when we apparently hate 100% of the show?


----------



## CM Buck

The Wood said:


> What are people supposed to do? _Not_ call out bullshit? And why is it totally fine for you to criticise AEW, but everyone else deserves an eye-roll? You are acting self-important.
> 
> No one is predicting the imminent demise of the company. Stop lying.
> 
> 
> 
> The Young Bucks certainly have. Check out the cover of their book.
> 
> 
> 
> No one said that.
> 
> 
> 
> *Just because you don’t like AEW it doesn’t mean you love WWE.*
> 
> 
> 
> Ding, ding, ding.
> 
> 
> 
> Remember when wrestling used to draw in towns every week?
> 
> 
> 
> No. One. Said. That.
> 
> 
> 
> Uhhhh, who’s going to tell this guy?
> 
> 
> 
> Bingo. This is why I don’t get the people who act like AEW being fresh somehow works against them. That is when they had all their goodwill. They haven’t built off that.


Glad you recognised the humour


----------



## Aedubya

Absolute garbage posted in here
May as well delete the thread


----------



## bdon

bdon said:


> Here’s what anecdotal evidence we have to know there are issues amongst The Elite:
> 
> A) show constantly feels like one good hour, one shitty hour,
> 
> B) the show had continuity and was actually good with less “mouths to feed” so to speak and Cody on hiatus from the show (I am pretty sure we all enjoyed the show those last 2 weeks or so on the build to All Out, but maybe that was just me),
> 
> C) Cody returned, and the show seems to have had the wheels flying off the fucking wagon in every goddamn direction, and the show doesn’t seem to have moved ONE goddamn bit,
> 
> D) on BTE you have Kenny flat out mocking the fact that for some reason he wasn’t on the Anniversary show, and on Twitter, he makes a point to says “ _takes out a magnifying glass_ oh, yup! I’m on the card today. barely! Oh, I’m in the Main Event. Funny how things work around here.”
> 
> Maybe this is just Weirdo Kenny shit, but the timing seems to clearly be suspicious.
> 
> E) Cody hasn’t been on BTE hardly at all since Dynamite began, and he is suddenly popping into Sammy’s YouTube channel, talking to El Fuego and complaining about the Bucks not listening to his ideas for BTE and bitching that there is some “Cody fatigue going on around here, lot of pyro, lot of segment time”
> 
> These fuckers hate working together. Khan needs to cut all their fucking power, let them be wrestlers, put someone in power who can tell each where they stand on the fucking totem pole, and be done with it.
> 
> By the way, that person does not need to be Dustin Rhodes; I want to make sure the people lining these guys out don’t overthink Cody’s place as Midcard King!


Not to mention the moment Cody was off filming his television show, they stopped with the QT and Allie shit as if it never happened, adding to the evidence that these fuckers do not enjoy working together.


----------



## 3venflow

Recent Dynamite ratings on ITV4 in the UK.

October 21 (aired October 23) – 155,000 <--- *second highest rating of 2020*
October 14 (aired October 16) – 118,000
October 7 (aired October 9) – 143,000
September 30 (aired October 2) – 149,000
September 23 (aired September 25) – 117,000
September 16 (aired September 18) – 151,000
September 9 (aired September 11) – 159,000 <--- *highest rating of 2020*
September 2 (aired September 4) – 132,000
August 27 (aired August 30) – 151,000

I've been trying to find some info on AEW's subscription numbers on FITE TV, which people like myself prefer since it's live. I could only find this quote from their COO in April though:

_"We offer a subscription called AEW Plus that’s not available in the US, Canada, Germany or France but is available in the rest of the world. It’s been bought in over 100 countries and initially the interest was very encouraging and it’s had a steady climb.

"What gets me is that I get the numbers of people watching it live and it’s quite staggering how many people are watching it live from Europe which is early in the morning. They have a strong and loyal following."_


----------



## DammitChrist

Hopefully, they continue to push guys like Cody Rhodes and Orange Cassidy considering the fact that they're popular acts from the company.

They just need to focus more on Kenny Omega and Adam Page too since they have several months worth of hot history/story going between both those men.



Lurcher said:


> Could you please refrain from attacking other posters, directly or indirectly? Thank you.


He's completely correct about the nonsense-talk tbf, so your response here was definitely unwarranted. Let him post his truthful thoughts in peace. Thank you.



Aedubya said:


> *Absolute garbage posted in here*
> May as well delete the thread


Yep, it's nothing new from the AEW critics at this point.


----------



## rbl85

Both show are going to get murdered tonight XD


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> Both show are going to get murdered tonight XD


for sure 

would be shocked if either did over 550


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> for sure
> 
> would be shocked if either did over 550


It's the show to try something that could easily go wrong because nobody will see it XD


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> Both show are going to get murdered tonight XD


This is a true statement, unfortunately.


----------



## Prosper

I'm going with 550K for AEW and 400K for NXT. Looks like the election won't be decided until tonight at the earliest and that's pushing it with Pennsylvania being so far behind.


----------



## omaroo

Should be bad rating all things considering.

450k I would say AEW.


----------



## NathanMayberry

3venflow said:


> Recent Dynamite ratings on ITV4 in the UK.
> 
> October 21 (aired October 23) – 155,000 <--- *second highest rating of 2020*
> October 14 (aired October 16) – 118,000
> October 7 (aired October 9) – 143,000
> September 30 (aired October 2) – 149,000
> September 23 (aired September 25) – 117,000
> September 16 (aired September 18) – 151,000
> September 9 (aired September 11) – 159,000 <--- *highest rating of 2020*
> September 2 (aired September 4) – 132,000
> August 27 (aired August 30) – 151,000
> 
> I've been trying to find some info on AEW's subscription numbers on FITE TV, which people like myself prefer since it's live. I could only find this quote from their COO in April though:
> 
> _"We offer a subscription called AEW Plus that’s not available in the US, Canada, Germany or France but is available in the rest of the world. It’s been bought in over 100 countries and initially the interest was very encouraging and it’s had a steady climb.
> 
> "What gets me is that I get the numbers of people watching it live and it’s quite staggering how many people are watching it live from Europe which is early in the morning. They have a strong and loyal following."_


Why do you use live + on demand in your ratings?


----------



## DammitChrist

I don't know about some of you folks, but I think this Dynamite episode deserves a good rating considering how good the go-home show was tonight. 

This actually felt like a pre-pandemic Dynamite episode that you'd see from AEW with how well the show was paced overall.

Anyway, the ratings may take a dip due to the Election results this week


----------



## 3venflow

NathanMayberry said:


> Why do you use live + on demand in your ratings?


Because that is the data from this link, which also includes WWE and IMPACT ratings:









UK TV Ratings


In the UK, WWE currently broadcasts on BT Sport – having moved there after spending decades with Sky Sports. Raw, SmackDown and NXT usually air live (that is, the same time as in the US) on B…




backbodydrop.com


----------



## NathanMayberry

3venflow said:


> Because that is the data from this link, which also includes WWE and IMPACT ratings:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UK TV Ratings
> 
> 
> In the UK, WWE currently broadcasts on BT Sport – having moved there after spending decades with Sky Sports. Raw, SmackDown and NXT usually air live (that is, the same time as in the US) on B…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> backbodydrop.com


Proper research would find you this: Top programmes report

Which shows the composition of those "ratings". It had 75,000 during its initial broadcast, with the rest being Time shifted. So it didn't have 155,000 "live" viewers.

Compare apples to apples.


----------



## 3venflow

NathanMayberry said:


> Proper research would find you this: Top programmes report
> 
> Which shows the composition of those "ratings". It had 75,000 during its initial broadcast, with the rest being Time shifted. So it didn't have 155,000 "live" viewers.
> 
> Compare apples to apples.


I was comparing the AEW ratings to _each other_ within the same parameters, so I have no idea what you're getting at. All ratings on that page follow the same criteria.

Nowhere within my post, which was just to update people on ITV4 numbers, did I mention that it was 'live' viewers only.



> These numbers come from BARB and Thinkbox, who typically update on Monday afternoons. I’m only looking at the _first airings_ of each show – so the live airings of Raw, SmackDown and NXT, and the first run of AEW Dynamite. Any additional details are added as and when I come across them…


----------



## Frass Assdaasd

ShadowCounter said:


> Right? This was basically a NXT PPV type show against a taped AEW show. The crowing from the AEW haters is hilarious. Just cue the circus music cause the clowns are out in full. Now watch them disappear when AEW comfortably wins again next week.


NXT PPV type show !!!!
show without the most important 3 stars
Trying to bring excuses to the White Knight

Natural wins aew against C Show
Presumably crush and not just beat
AEW FANS Herd mentality Dave Melzer


----------



## Erik.

Top 50 consisted entirely of news shows.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1324456828810526721


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1324458341679050752

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Not surprised. I mean I personally watched AEW because the show for the most part looked intriguing. However the election has been a giant clusterfuck and it’s even drawing me in to stay up to date with it.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

"damn AEW is a flop, how long before they close shop" - losers not from America

to be honest even our tv has been glad to the news past few days lol. and i live in england.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

717 AEW .30

That's not bad, higher demo rating than the anniversary show.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Wow, I was thinking we were going to see like 500k-ish. I think that’s a good number all things considered. Wonder how much it’d been without election stuff.


----------



## Erik.

Damn, both NXT and AEW both have loyal fanbases.

Considering what dominated yesterday, both did decent numbers.


----------



## fabi1982

Seems like it wasnt very much affected by the election. Honestly expected this, as people needed a break from watching news the 12h before. Demo especially shows that the impact was minimal. Maybe lost around 150k totals.

EDIT: but I would like to see a gif of trump-wrestler killing both NXT and AEW. Maybe the move from one of the PP against both Bucks from the ropes would be a good gif.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Still a 0.30?!!

will they ever stop winning at life?!!

i’m astounded - loyal fans are loyal


----------



## Prosper

Elections dominated like we all expected, surprised AEW still did 717K with .30 that's really damn impressive

We don't even have a clear winner yet so I feel bad for tonight's NFL game which will also get massacred


----------



## Ozell Gray

I knew they weren't going to get "record low viewership numbers." The election had very little affect on the show's numbers.


----------



## fabi1982

It will be impressive if in 3 weeks time they have .36-.39. if they still hover around the .3 this rating just shows that loyal fans are loyal. Not saying the rating is bad.


----------



## Pippen94

Big ratings drop - time to bring in Billy Corgan & run show like nwa power


----------



## 3venflow

14 weeks in a row now that the demo has been 0.30+, I thought it might drop below this week but the fanbase is loyal af.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

optikk sucks said:


> yeah
> 
> bring back steroids too


Imagine Wardlows career if he would just do a few cycles.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

3venflow said:


> 14 weeks in a row now that the demo has been 0.30+, I thought it might drop below this week but the fanbase is loyal af.


Because the product is loyal to us. It is really that simple.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

TKO Wrestling said:


> Because the product is loyal to us. It is really that simple.


they

GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT


----------



## omaroo

This is their average so ye.

Wont ever do 1 mil consistently though.


----------



## Prosper

TKO Wrestling said:


> Because the product is loyal to us. It is really that simple.


Straight up. I was all about done with wrestling last year. Now I feel like a kid again back in 2005 watching RAW during the height of Ruthless Aggression.


----------



## 3venflow

omaroo said:


> This is their average so ye.
> 
> Wont ever do 1 mil consistently though.


Quite frankly, we don't know that. None of us know where it'll be in two, three, four years. It could be doing 1m, it could be doing 100,000. Nitro was doing as low as 2.0 when it started, was up to 5.1 in March '98 and by the end was back to where it started. Everything is changeable in wrestling.


----------



## rbl85

Really good number from AEW (and also NXT).

What did i say last week ?

NXT can only beat AEW if they do special episodes (mini takeovers)


----------



## omaroo

3venflow said:


> Quite frankly, we don't know that. None of us know where it'll be in two, three, four years. It could be doing 1m, it could be doing 100,000. Nitro was doing as low as 2.0 when it started, was up to 5.1 in March '98 and by the end was back to where it started. Everything is changeable in wrestling.


Different times then, too many option to watch what you want nowadays.

Hence why their ratings wont ever really increase by much.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Still a 0.30?!!
> 
> will they ever stop winning at life?!!
> 
> i’m astounded - loyal fans are loyal


They're not winning at life they're still the same struggling wrestling product they were a year ago.



Ozell Gray said:


> I knew they weren't going to get "record low viewership numbers." The election had very little affect on the show's numbers.


Yup, I've said it before and I'll say it again. For the types who are loyally watching AEW every week wrestling is their entire life. Election doesn't matter when Cody is on



Pippen94 said:


> Big ratings drop - time to bring in Billy Corgan & run show like nwa power


You're not allowed to use this thread to take shots at people anymore.



TKO Wrestling said:


> Because the product is loyal to us. It is really that simple.


Cringe.


----------



## RainmakerV2

prosperwithdeen said:


> Straight up. I was all about done with wrestling last year. Now I feel like a kid again back in 2005 watching RAW during the height of Ruthless Aggression.



Lol jeebus


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> Really good number from AEW (and also NXT).
> 
> What did i say last week ?
> 
> NXT can only beat AEW if they do special episodes (mini takeovers)


it's a good number, but i hope we can now start seeing numbers rise in 2021. This year has been a write-off, but no excuses from next year IMO.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

optikk sucks said:


> it's a good number, but i hope we can now start seeing numbers rise in 2021. This year has been a write-off, but no excuses from next year IMO.


Won't happen. They don't have anything that appeals to a bigger audience


----------



## Prosper

RainmakerV2 said:


> Lol jeebus


Lol hey man if you’re a fan then you’re a fan I wouldn’t lie to y’all


----------



## 3venflow

omaroo said:


> Different times then, too many option to watch what you want nowadays.
> 
> Hence why their ratings wont ever really increase by much.


Once again, you cannot say this. AEW did over 1 million when unopposed by NXT with this card:


Jurassic Express vs. Lucha Bros
Cassidy vs. Angelico
Jericho/Hager vs. Janela/Kiss
Nyla Rose vs. Tay Conti
Dustin Rhodes vs. Brodie Lee

So you simply can't accurately say AEW ratings won't go up. Nor can you say they'll go down. We just don't know. Look at TNA's ratings over the years.

There are all kind of variables to consider. For example, what if NXT isn't on the same night two years from now and AEW is suddenly unopposed? If the above card can draw over 1m viewers, what could a better card with a more mature, built-up roster do in a couple of years?

Just like no one in 1996 predicted what 1999 would be like, I doubt anyone can say what AEW or WWE will be drawing in 2023. For all we know, the industry might recover a little with more people tuning in.


----------



## Kentucky34

They barely beat NXT with their PPV go-home show. 

Let's steady on a bit with the praise.


----------



## omaroo

Wrestling is dead.

Ratings are not going up but actually dropping.

AEW Would be lucky to draw 500k in 5 years.

With who is in charge and all issues with AEW they won't actually grow.


----------



## TripleG

Look at all those news shows at top of the ratings, lol. 

This election is a shitshow.


----------



## Christopher Near

rbl85 said:


> Really good number from AEW (and also NXT).
> 
> What did i say last week ?
> 
> NXT can only beat AEW if they do special episodes (mini takeovers)


Really good? Neither one of them charted in the top 50


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Christopher Near said:


> Really good? Neither one of them charted in the top 50


but they were both in the top 100

and if you were in the top 100 in a marathon with 5000 people, wouldn't you be happy?

how about being in the top 100 smartest people on earth, where there is 7 billion people - not so bad now, right?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

3venflow said:


> Once again, you cannot say this. AEW did over 1 million when unopposed by NXT with this card:
> 
> 
> Jurassic Express vs. Lucha Bros
> Cassidy vs. Angelico
> Jericho/Hager vs. Janela/Kiss
> Nyla Rose vs. Tay Conti
> Dustin Rhodes vs. Brodie Lee
> 
> So you simply can't accurately say AEW ratings won't go up. Nor can you say they'll go down. We just don't know. Look at TNA's ratings over the years.
> 
> There are all kind of variables to consider. For example, what if NXT isn't on the same night two years from now and AEW is suddenly unopposed? If the above card can draw over 1m viewers, what could a better card with a more mature, built-up roster do in a couple of years?
> 
> Just like no one in 1996 predicted what 1999 would be like, I doubt anyone can say what AEW or WWE will be drawing in 2023. For all we know, the industry might recover a little with more people tuning in.


Except in 1996 the WWF had the greatest wrestling mind and most successful promoter of all time steering the ship.

AEW has Khan and The Bucks


----------



## Klitschko

Solid rating.


----------



## rich110991

It was a good show, shame the rating wasn’t higher.


----------



## omaroo

Chip Chipperson said:


> Except in 1996 the WWF had the greatest wrestling mind and most successful promoter of all time steering the ship.
> 
> AEW has Khan and The Bucks


Yep and same people that will likely ruin AEW.

AEW had so much potential to be something other than another WWE.

Thats the last thing the wrestling business needs.


----------



## imthegame19

Christopher Near said:


> Really good? Neither one of them charted in the top 50


They were 2nd ranked non news/electrion content in 18 to 49 for the night.


----------



## thorn123

that rating doesn't match the quality of this weeks show


----------



## rbl85

DaveRA said:


> that rating doesn't match the quality of this weeks show


Doing 700+K with the elections = to 800+K in a normal situation.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

0.30 is not bad for AEW I expected them to be 0.22-0.25 and viewers still over 700k I figured series low.

0.14 NXT getting less than half of AEW's demo which considering this election clusterfuck isn't far off their regular 0.16-0.20 

Not every week can be Halloween Havoc which even my brother said he really liked it "other than the Lumis shit" and he favors AEW big time.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Chip Chipperson said:


> Except in 1996 the WWF had the greatest wrestling mind and most successful promoter of all time steering the ship.
> 
> AEW has Khan and The Bucks


I’m pretty damn optimistic knowing Tony Khan is running the show. People were laughing even harder at Vince in 1996 than they are now and he turned out pretty good lol.


----------



## .christopher.

prosperwithdeen said:


> Straight up. I was all about done with wrestling last year. Now I feel like a kid again back in 2005 watching RAW during the height of Ruthless Aggression.


This explains a lot if most are like you. Your nostalgia is based off a horrible wrestling product, so, really, you've never known good wrestling because WWE post 2003 has not been good. No wonder you don't mind today's era of wrestling.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

.christopher. said:


> This explains a lot if most are like you. Your nostalgia is based off a horrible wrestling product, so, really, you've never known good wrestling because WWE post 2003 has not been good. No wonder you don't mind today's era of wrestling.


Yeah, 2005 was an acceptable year. Had a lot of good stuff but a lot of bad also. It's not a year I personally really look fondly back at I like 02-03 more from that time but obviously 80's and 90's is my jam.

Maybe one of the mods can allow a thread in here one day where we all share our favourite moments from the past and discuss.


----------



## 3venflow

Chip Chipperson said:


> Except in 1996 the WWF had the greatest wrestling mind and most successful promoter of all time steering the ship.
> 
> AEW has Khan and The Bucks


It was a comment about the industry in general, not just WWE which the 'greatest mind' struggled to get out of a slump until he 'borrowed' ideas from Paul Heyman's ECW. For example, with the nWo red hot few would have imagined WCW would be spiralling towards its death a few years later. The point being we don't KNOW where anyone will be in a few years. AEW could continue to do well or flounder, they could have a new booker, they could have the same booker. They could still be opposed by NXT, they could not still be opposed by NXT.


----------



## Erik.

.christopher. said:


> This explains a lot if most are like you. Your nostalgia is based off a horrible wrestling product, so, really, you've never known good wrestling because WWE post 2003 has not been good. No wonder you don't mind today's era of wrestling.


I mean, his enjoyment is based off something he enjoyed growing up.

Whereas your 'enjoyment' is compared to something you loved as a kid, which can never compare. Because of nostalgia.

I know who I'd rather be.


----------



## Ozell Gray

As we reported yesterday, both AEW Dynamite and NXT were hit hard by news coverage of the Presidential election, with both shows getting knocked out of the top 50. Dynamite managed to prevail over NXT with 717,000 viewers and a 0.30 rating compared to NXT’s 610,000 viewers and a 0.14 rating.

The Wrestling Observer Newsletter has a breakdown of the numbers, although it’s somewhat limited as neither show made the top fifty this week. Dynamite was #55 and NXT was #68. Among non-news shows, Dynamite was #2 (behind Real Housewives of Orange County) while NXT was #13.

NXT had 28,000 viewers in 18-34, a huge drop of 102,000 last week. Overall, it was down 30.4% in viewership and 44.5% in the key 18-49 demographic. Dynamite again had more female viewers than male viewers in 18-34.

AEW had 56,000 viewers in males 18-34 (down 15.2%), 64,000 in women 18-34 (down 15.8%), 184,000 (up 3.4) in men 35-49) and 79,000 in women 35-49 (down 23.3%). NXT had 13,000 in men 18-34 (down 79%), 15,000 in women 18-34 (down 62.5%), 92,000 in men 35-49 (down 37.8%) and 61,000 in women 35-49 (down 19.7%).

Here’s a detailed quarter-by-quarter breakdown:

Q1: MJF & Wardlow vs. Sammy Guevara & Ortiz – 707,000 viewers, 335,000 in 18-49
Q2: Kenny Omega interview/Miro vs. Trent – 656,000 viewers (down 51,000), 321,000 in 18-49 (down 14,000)
Q3: End of Trent vs. Miro – 707,000 viewers (up 51,000), 366,000 in 18-49 (up 45,000)
Q4: FTR & Young Bucks video/Team Taz promo/Young Bucks vs. Private Party – 739,000 viewers (up 27,000), 424,000 in 18-49 (up 58,000)
Q5: End of Young Bucks vs. Private Party – 762,000 viewers (up 23,000), 428,000 in 18-49 (up 4,000)
Q6: Eddie Kingston & Jon Moxley promo/PAC video – 711,000 viewers (down 51,000), 399,000 in 18-49 (down 29,000)
Q7: Nyla Rose vs. Red Velvet/Omega & Hangman Page video – 752,000 viewers (up 41,000), 401,000 in 18-49 (up 2,000)
Q8: The Dark Order vs. Cody & The Gunn Club – 700,000 viewers (down 52,000), 392,000 in 18-49 (down 9,000)

And here’s the breakdown of NXT by quarters:

Q1: Ember Moon vs. Dakota Kai – 723,000 viewers, 226,000 in 18-49
Q2: End of Moon vs. Kai/KUSHIDA vs. Cameron Grimes – 672,000 viewers (down 51,000), 199,000 in 18-49 (down 27,000)
Q3: End of KUSHIDA vs. Grimes – 600,000 viewers (down 72,000), 182,000 in 18-49 (down 17,000)
Q4: Killian Dain & Drake Maverick vs. Ever-Rize/Pat McAfee promo – 632,000 viewers (up 32,000), 180,000 in 18-49 (down 2,000)
Q5: End of McAfee promo/Johnny Gargano video/Shotzi Blackheart vs. Toni Storm – 610,000 viewers (down 22,000), 187,000 in 18-49 (up 7,000)
Q6: End of Storm vs. Blackheart – 570,000 viewers (down 40,000), 173,000 in 18-49 (down 14,000)
Q7: Timothy Thatcher segment/Xia Li promo/Rhea Ripley promo – 522,000 viewers (down 48,000), 140,000 in 18-49 (down 33,000)
Q8: Velveteen Dream vs. Tommaso Ciampa – 551,000 viewers (up 29,000), 149,000 in 18-49 (up 9,000)










411MANIA | Ratings Breakdown For This Week’s AEW Dynamite and NXT


A breakdown of the numbers for this week's AEW Dynamite and NXT, although it's somewhat limited as neither show made the top fifty this week...




411mania.com


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah, 2005 was an acceptable year. Had a lot of good stuff but a lot of bad also. It's not a year I personally really look fondly back at I like 02-03 more from that time but obviously 80's and 90's is my jam.
> 
> Maybe one of the mods can allow a thread in here one day where we all share our favourite moments from the past and discuss.


General WWE section, classic wrestling.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

So they did decent despite what's going on. Cool.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I bet the PPV does between 100 and 110k buys


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> I bet the PPV does between 100 and 110k buys


Hahahah


----------



## 3venflow

100,000 is a logical prediction in line with their average. Not sure if Biden's speech will have any impact on the last minute buys, but the card should be enough to do 100,000 or thereabouts.

Double or Nothing 2019: 109,000-113,000
All Out 2019: 101,000
Full Gear 2019: 90,000-100,000
Revolution 2020: 100,000-105,000
Double or Nothing 2020: 115,000-120,000
All Out 2020: 100,000-110,000


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

3venflow said:


> 100,000 is a logical prediction in line with their average. Not sure if Biden's speech will have any impact on the last minute buys, but the card should be enough to do 100,000 or thereabouts.
> 
> Double or Nothing 2019: 109,000-113,000
> All Out 2019: 101,000
> Full Gear 2019: 90,000-100,000
> Revolution 2020: 100,000-105,000
> Double or Nothing 2020: 115,000-120,000
> All Out 2020: 100,000-110,000


I suspect Biden speech will have minimal impact on buys. AEW may even try and time their least important match on the card to coincide with the speech.


----------



## The Wood

It's not really surprising that ratings were relatively unaffected by the election. More people watching news =/= less people watching wrestling.


----------



## 3venflow

A quote by Tony further confirming the new show is coming and Dark will continue so AEW will pretty much have three shows.

_“I love our big four shows, I think having Revolution, Double or Nothing, All Out and Full Gear as the big shows spaced out for the year, ‘The Big Four’ really provides anticipation. Then, Dynamite, we have huge episodes of Dynamite, special events within Dynamite but a lot of the episodes and cards we have are huge draws and have been huge successes. So I think we have got a great lineup,” _Tony said. _“We're going to add a third hour of television in addition to trying to develop and utilize a lot of our great talent on Dark. I think we could definitely expand our programming. I don't think we'll have shows like these, you know, these particular ‘Big Four’ pay-per-views. But there are other platforms and other shows will develop for sure.”_


----------



## The Wood

This seems borrowed very much from the WWE’s template of creating more and more content. A big part of the appeal of AEW was that it would require less obligation from audiences. This could potentially affect ratings across the board. People are going to need to prioritise.

Some people are going to see Dynamite as the primary programming and will only watch it. But there are going to be some people who will see an hour long show and prefer that because it shouldn’t have nearly as much filler, which could hurt Dynamite.


----------



## Shock Street

The Wood said:


> This seems borrowed very much from the WWE’s template of creating more and more content. A big part of the appeal of AEW was that it would require less obligation from audiences. This could potentially affect ratings across the board. People are going to need to prioritise.
> 
> Some people are going to see Dynamite as the primary programming and will only watch it. But there are going to be some people who will see an hour long show and prefer that because it shouldn’t have nearly as much filler, which could hurt Dynamite.


If they make you have to watch both to make any sense, they're fucked. One of the most standout bad moments of Dynamite was because they thought everyone watching kept up with BTE (Dark Order celebration with the lawnmowers).

I'm not saying brand split, that would be restrictive and dumb, but if an angle starts on Dynamite it should entirely live and die on Dynamite. If it starts on Kablooey or whatever their second show is called it should stay exclusive to it as well.


----------



## Ozell Gray

ShowBuzzDaily has the ratings for the Countdown to AEW Full Gear special from last Friday in the build to the pay-per-view at Daily’s Place in Jacksonville.

The Countdown to AEW Full Gear special, which aired at 11 PM EST, brought in 245,000 viewers on TNT. The show earned a 0.09 rating in the key 18-49 demographic, and that ranked 83rd on the night on cable.

As previously reported, the Countdown to AEW All Out special in September, which aired on a Saturday at 5:30 PM ET, notched 357,000 viewers and a 0.14 rating in the 18-49 demo.

Election Night in America on CNN led the way in total viewership and earned 18 of the top 20 spots in the key demo during Friday’s coverage of the U.S. presidential election.










411MANIA | Countdown To AEW Full Gear Viewership Released For TNT Special


ShowBuzzDaily has the ratings for the Countdown to AEW Full Gear special from last Friday in the build to the pay-per-view at Daily's Place in Jacksonville.




411mania.com


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Damn. A 100k drop...


----------



## The Wood

It’s genuinely hard to get a gauge in AEW’s ratings, just because it’s such a hardcore and mobilised audience that they will this thing back whenever it starts to get cold. I honestly think there is a concerted effort to prop this thing up.

For example, if this news gets out, the next time they do a “Countdown” special, AEW fans are going to go out of their way to watch it, even if they don’t care. They’ll get it back up and the company won’t have an accurate read on how their product is tracking.

That’s why you get all these metrics suggesting disinterest, but the TV ratings for Dynamite stay in that same range.


----------



## NathanMayberry

PSA: The Prosperous One who supposedly works in TV predicted that AEW would be at 1.4 million in the post Full Gear episode. Ensure he remembers this, the next time he tries to Appeal to Authority here.


----------



## RiverFenix

It could have been a great card, but they absolutely blew the build. 

Jericho should have won the Mimosa Match at All Out if they wanted this program with Max to mean anything. Especially considering OC goes from winning that feud to wrestling John Silver in a total nothing match. Max goes from fighting for the World Championship to singing and dancing in a comedic storyline that Jericho is becoming sadly infamous for in a desperate attempt to hide his plummeting legitimacy and workrate. 

Brodie vs Cody dog collar match should have happened here. Cody winning and then losing to Darby could have happened at Revolution. Allin vs Team Taz doesn't need the TNT Title over the next few months. 

Bucks vs FTR build was atrocious. Mox vs King was a great build, but no drama to the outcome. Hangman vs Omega was stretched out too long and lost it's attention.


----------



## fabi1982

NathanMayberry said:


> PSA: The Prosperous One who supposedly works in TV predicted that AEW would be at 1.4 million in the post Full Gear episode. Ensure he remembers this, the next time he tries to Appeal to Authority here.


I love this post so much


----------



## One Shed

NathanMayberry said:


> PSA: The Prosperous One who supposedly works in TV predicted that AEW would be at 1.4 million in the post Full Gear episode. Ensure he remembers this, the next time he tries to Appeal to Authority here.


Whoa, epic heel turn using "light mode." My eyes!

Kind of funny especially considering how much of a shit show the anniversary show turned out to be too.


----------



## DammitChrist

NathanMayberry said:


> PSA: The Prosperous One who supposedly works in TV predicted that AEW would be at 1.4 million in the post Full Gear episode. Ensure he remembers this, the next time he tries to Appeal to Authority here.


It's quite an understandable prediction, and he's still worth taking seriously as a poster.

However, it's important to note that he didn't keep in mind at the time back then of the current fallout from the Election results


----------



## Klitschko

Two Sheds said:


> Whoa, epic heel turn using "light mode." My eyes!
> 
> Kind of funny especially considering how much of a shit show the anniversary show turned out to be too.


I read your post and said no fucking way and started looking around. Found the dark mode, and its so much better haha.


----------



## One Shed

Klitschko said:


> I read your post and said no fucking way and started looking around. Found the dark mode, and its so much better haha.


It changes lives


----------



## The Wood

AEW is really hard to predict, because it’s got this pack of obsessed fans who will prop it up. I can kind of understand how someone would think that represents growth or something.

But yes, be very careful of arguments from authority. Never be afraid to ask someone to explain their reasoning.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Klitschko said:


> I read your post and said no fucking way and started looking around. Found the dark mode, and its so much better haha.


I'm now Dark also and am enjoying it.


----------



## .christopher.

Erik. said:


> I mean, his enjoyment is based off something he enjoyed growing up.
> 
> Whereas your 'enjoyment' is compared to something you loved as a kid, which can never compare. Because of nostalgia.
> 
> I know who I'd rather be.


Yeah, well, you both like AEW so I'd rather neither of you be me.

Also, there was good wrestling in 2005 and it wasn't the WWE.


----------



## .christopher.

NathanMayberry said:


> PSA: The Prosperous One who supposedly works in TV predicted that AEW would be at 1.4 million in the post Full Gear episode. Ensure he remembers this, the next time he tries to Appeal to Authority here.


You don't know even need hindsight to laugh at this as it was absurd at the time, too.

Like how you can you laugh at the kids saying AEW would sell out Wembley right now.


----------



## Not Lying

NathanMayberry said:


> PSA: The Prosperous One who supposedly works in TV predicted that AEW would be at 1.4 million in the post Full Gear episode. Ensure he remembers this, the next time he tries to Appeal to Authority here.


Imagine being so pathetic to be so triggered by this. Have you been sitting on this screenshot for a while? "12h ago", lmao, I feel sorry for you.

Worst thing is, This is clearly taken out of context as it was assumed at the time AEW was going to be without competition as NXT was rumoured to be going to Tuesdays and hadn't competed with AEW in a couple of weeks, and them having upward swing at the time.

@fabi1982 already embarrassed himself doing the same thing you're doing.
Another day, another hate anything positive circle-jerk.



.christopher. said:


> Yeah, well, you both like AEW so I'd rather neither of you be me.
> 
> Also, there was good wrestling in 2005 and it wasn't the WWE.


At least this guy can admit he's a hater. 😂


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> Imagine being so pathetic to be so triggered by this. Have you been sitting on this screenshot for a while? "12h ago", lmao, I feel sorry for you.
> 
> Worst thing is, This is clearly taken out of context as it was assumed at the time AEW was going to be without competition as NXT was rumoured to be going to Tuesdays and hadn't competed with AEW in a couple of weeks, and them having upward swing at the time.
> 
> @fabi1982 already embarrassed himself doing the same thing you're doing.
> Another day, another hate anything positive circle-jerk.


Hang on, people try and do this to me all the time. They don’t even use screenshots or quotes when it comes to me. I will often have words and ideas put into my mouth by people trying to discredit me. This is an actual prediction by someone who does claim to have expertise in the field.

Hang on, when was it ever thought that NXT would be changing nights? Let alone why would anyone with TV industry knowledge expect this? There are a billion reasons NXT would not change nights. It’d be a grave misunderstanding of television to think that they would be.

I want to make it clear that I’m not taking this as “hating” on the poster or anything. But that’s a legitimate prediction that is obviously just off the money. And if the poster does try an argument from authority, it’s good to remember that whether or not they do have expertise, it doesn’t mean they are going to be able to make predictions based on it.


----------



## Not Lying

The Wood said:


> Hang on, people try and do this to me all the time. They don’t even use screenshots or quotes when it comes to me. I will often have words and ideas put into my mouth by people trying to discredit me. This is an actual prediction by someone who does claim to have expertise in the field.
> 
> Hang on, when was it ever thought that NXT would be changing nights? Let alone why would anyone with TV industry knowledge expect this? There are a billion reasons NXT would not change nights. It’d be a grave misunderstanding of television to think that they would be.
> 
> I want to make it clear that I’m not taking this as “hating” on the poster or anything. But that’s a legitimate prediction that is obviously just off the money. And if the poster does try an argument from authority, it’s good to remember that whether or not they do have expertise, it doesn’t mean they are going to be able to make predictions based on it.


You're mad people are calling you on your shit?
It doesn't take much for someone to remember vaguely what you were shitting on or said, or to search something up quickly on this forum. It is however quite pathetic to be sitting on a screenshot for 2+months to prove a user was wrong about a TV number prediction.

lmao and now you're trying to refute this? selective memory much? there was a whole discussion about this and about NXT moving to tuesdays. I didn't think it was possible cause WWE is a petty business, but there was huge rumors about it to increase NXT's viewership by 200K.

And Prosper has said he knows the field once and explained it to you people why the numbers on TV *ARE NOT* full representatives of the "everyone watching". He explained well how things are counted and that it looks ridiculous to say they have only "800K" watching when there are in the many many watching via other means. That's his expertise and that's what he was trying to convey.

CEOs of billion dollar companies make guidelines and predictions the entire time for their earning, and they miss the mark many times, do these CEOs also have no idea what's going on?
Brokers spends hours/days modeling possible earnings outcome and they get it wrong, by huge margins. So please, sit down, and stfu thinking this some legit criticism when Propser was making an on the fly comment with different inputs at the time.


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> You're mad people are calling you on your shit?
> It doesn't take much for someone to remember vaguely what you were shitting on or said, or to search something up quickly on this forum. It is however quite pathetic to be sitting on a screenshot for 2+months to prove a user was wrong about a TV number prediction.
> 
> lmao and now you're trying to refute this? selective memory much? there was a whole discussion about this and about NXT moving to tuesdays. I didn't think it was possible cause WWE is a petty business, but there was huge rumors about it to increase NXT's viewership by 200K.
> 
> And Prosper has said he knows the field once and explained it to you people why the numbers on TV *ARE NOT* full representatives of the "everyone watching". He explained well how things are counted and that it looks ridiculous to say they have only "800K" watching when there are in the many many watching via other means. That's his expertise and that's what he was trying to convey.
> 
> CEOs of billion dollar companies make guidelines and predictions the entire time for their earning, and they miss the mark many times, do these CEOs also have no idea what's going on?
> Brokers spends hours/days modeling possible earnings outcome and they get it wrong, by huge margins. So please, sit down, and stfu thinking this some legit criticism when Propser was making an on the fly comment with different inputs at the time.


Oh god, this is going to get messy and tangential, but I’ll do my best to keep it on track:

No, I’m not mad, because it’s relatively easy to smack down someone who, for example, flat-out lies and says I said AEW would be out of business by April. It actually makes me look good, because it’s clear how desperate people are to get ANYTHING in on me. I just find it funny that people will go out of my way to lie and misrepresent my opinions, but when it comes to an actual quote from a poster that, meaning well or not, has made arguments from authority, it’s “pathetic.”

Totally fine to lie about Woodsy, but quote prosperwithdeen? Monsters! Animals! Reprobates!

I do not remember this “discussion.” Was it in its own thread, because I would have LOVED to have participated in that and shut it down very quickly, haha. If you’re talking about posters saying things like “NXT is shameful! It needs to move nights before it dies!” (honestly, I think this is pretty close to verbatim), then I don’t really consider that a “discussion” or a “rumour.” I would think someone like prosper would see through that, and anyone even remotely connected to television would have to.

I’d already explained that thing about the audiences to people, as many others had, with the big ol’ caveat of “So what?” In that discussion, and this is not me “flaming” him or trying to insult him, there were definitely tones of “I actually know what I am talking about,” so I can understand why people have taken his position as an argument from authority.

It just means that people need to not just listen to someone who claims to understand how TV and media advertising works and assume that they are going to be able to predict the trajectory of AEW on the face value of it, because they can get it flat-out wrong. I thought NXT would have been winning in the ratings by now. Give people the agency to be wrong. It’s how we learn.


----------



## fabi1982

The Definition of Technician said:


> Imagine being so pathetic to be so triggered by this. Have you been sitting on this screenshot for a while? "12h ago", lmao, I feel sorry for you.
> 
> Worst thing is, This is clearly taken out of context as it was assumed at the time AEW was going to be without competition as NXT was rumoured to be going to Tuesdays and hadn't competed with AEW in a couple of weeks, and them having upward swing at the time.
> 
> @fabi1982 already embarrassed himself doing the same thing you're doing.
> Another day, another hate anything positive circle-jerk.
> 
> 
> 
> At least this guy can admit he's a hater. 😂


Did I put you on the "blind fans" list in the other post? If not, you should be there. Saying "I embarrased myself" with mentioning the blind excessive love is just embarrasing for you. And even with the idea of AEW going without competition would have meant that from that show in 2 month they would grow by 40%. Do you really think it is "just competition" that holds the numbers back? The 1.4m viewers would mean that basically all people of Wednesday night would watch AEW, who watch wrestling. That is blind love and embarrasing  But hey good that you have people you can mention to make fun of, so please dont be sad/frustrated/angry if people do this to you


----------



## Not Lying

The Wood said:


> Oh god, this is going to get messy and tangential, but I’ll do my best to keep it on track:
> 
> No, I’m not mad, because it’s relatively easy to smack down someone who, for example, flat-out lies and says I said AEW would be out of business by April. It actually makes me look good, because it’s clear how desperate people are to get ANYTHING in on me. I just find it funny that people will go out of my way to lie and misrepresent my opinions, but when it comes to an actual quote from a poster that, meaning well or not, has made arguments from authority, it’s “pathetic.”
> 
> Totally fine to lie about Woodsy, but quote prosperwithdeen? Monsters! Animals! Reprobates!
> 
> I do not remember this “discussion.” Was it in its own thread, because I would have LOVED to have participated in that and shut it down very quickly, haha. If you’re talking about posters saying things like “NXT is shameful! It needs to move nights before it dies!” (honestly, I think this is pretty close to verbatim), then I don’t really consider that a “discussion” or a “rumour.” I would think someone like prosper would see through that, and anyone even remotely connected to television would have to.
> 
> I’d already explained that thing about the audiences to people, as many others had, with the big ol’ caveat of “So what?” In that discussion, and this is not me “flaming” him or trying to insult him, there were definitely tones of “I actually know what I am talking about,” so I can understand why people have taken his position as an argument from authority.
> 
> *It just means that people need to not just listen to someone who claims to understand how TV and media advertising works and assume that they are going to be able to predict the trajectory of AEW on the face value of it, because they can get it flat-out wrong. I thought NXT would have been winning in the ratings by now. Give people the agency to be wrong. It’s how we learn.*


Lies? you just said you've been quoted too and not just "mis-represented". 
The April thing is more probably of a shot at the Cornette-cult that believe 100% of what he says, he was wrong on this too. I guess we also don't need to listen to him for TV ratings advice too then?

And there you go 








AEW May Be Airing Unopposed Soon With NXT Moving Nights


1301212403380690944 1301196914386513920




www.wrestlingforum.com





I told you it's easy to search for stuff here 

Well yes I do remember you saying stuff like "NXT would win" "They are playing the long game" ( when in fact they were the ones who hot-shotted everything when Vince got his hands on NXT in June/July, and they had a huge fall after now and are back in rebuilding phase now). It's good you can at least admit that 

And the last paragraph is a given? How many sports analyst get it wrong predicting who is gona win in a game? 
Something that is EASIER to predict than sthg as "TV ratings" which has many variables (TV competition, previous-week follow-up, huge news..).
I think it's just funny and telling about many of you who were rooting for him to be wrong because you thought he was being arrogant when in fact he was just explaining to you why "TV Viewers =/= All viewers".


----------



## Not Lying

fabi1982 said:


> Did I put you on the "blind fans" list in the other post? If not, you should be there. Saying "I embarrased myself" with mentioning the blind excessive love is just embarrasing for you. And even with the idea of AEW going without competition would have meant that from that show in 2 month they would grow by 40%. Do you really think it is "just competition" that holds the numbers back? The 1.4m viewers would mean that basically all people of Wednesday night would watch AEW, who watch wrestling. That is blind love and embarrasing  But hey good that you have people you can mention to make fun of, so please dont be sad/frustrated/angry if people do this to you


Well when you put comments like



fabi1982 said:


> Werent you the one expecting „for sure“ 1.1 to 1.2 m viewers for AEW this week? So it seems your opinion is irrelevant on the whole scale of wrestling?! *(And telling people now you meant it without competition, doesnt matter)*
> 
> And again, even if it was said a million times, NXT is still developemental for WWE and I guess they are happy with cutting 150-200k viewers out of Dynamite, so why should they move? What happens when they get 850k on a Tuesday? What does it change despite Dynamite getting more viewers? USA is keeping NXT on for how long WWE want because they cant affors to lose RAW. So they do whatever Vince wants and he obviously wants to hurt AEW, which seems to work afaik.


Available on the latest page in the NXT ratings thread cause it's dead there 
it DOES make it embarassing for you.

Imagine thinking someone making a prediction based on if he thought it was "with or without" competition DOESN'T matter?
And you were arrogant enough to say because he was off, based on that only, that his opinion is irrelevant *ON THE WHOLE SCALE* OF WRESTLING?

It's like me predicting the Lakers will win, but then Lebron gets injured and they don't, and suddenly I'm wrong and no other opinion I can have matters. What a joke.


----------



## Erik.

.christopher. said:


> Yeah, well, you both like AEW so I'd rather neither of you be me.
> 
> Also, there was good wrestling in 2005 and it wasn't the WWE.


Dont worry buddy, neither of us want to be you.


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> Lies? you just said you've been quoted too and not just "mis-represented".
> The April thing is more probably of a shot at the Cornette-cult that believe 100% of what he says, he was wrong on this too. I guess we also don't need to listen to him for TV ratings advice too then?
> 
> And there you go
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW May Be Airing Unopposed Soon With NXT Moving Nights
> 
> 
> 1301212403380690944 1301196914386513920
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I told you it's easy to search for stuff here
> 
> Well yes I do remember you saying stuff like "NXT would win" "They are playing the long game" ( when in fact they were the ones who hot-shotted everything when Vince got his hands on NXT in June/July, and they had a huge fall after now and are back in rebuilding phase now). It's good you can at least admit that
> 
> And the last paragraph is a given? How many sports analyst get it wrong predicting who is gona win in a game?
> Something that is EASIER to predict than sthg as "TV ratings" which has many variables (TV competition, previous-week follow-up, huge news..).
> I think it's just funny and telling about many of you who were rooting for him to be wrong because you thought he was being arrogant when in fact he was just explaining to you why "TV Viewers =/= All viewers".


I’m very frequently quoted out of context. Or I have something attributed to me that I flat-out didn’t say. Like the April thing, which was a downright lie. But never mind that, hey? You’ve just got to take up for someone that is actually being quoted.

Genuinely don’t remember that thread. Don’t know why you’re being smug about it. I’m not even going to click on it, but I doubt it contains any credible source. How do I know? Because the WWE is not going to let AEW go unopposed. It’s as simple as that. Any operating under that “information” isn’t on the inside track.

And yeah, I said all those things about NXT, and I completely stand by them. NXT is playing the long-game. Wait for AEW to burn out their welcome and wait for the tables to turn. It’s just interesting we see an audience that will switch back on if they get a whiff of AEW defeat. Besides Balor, they haven’t even called a star down to NXT full-time. They seem pretty determined to win this as naturally as possible.


----------



## Not Lying

The Wood said:


> I’m very frequently quoted out of context. Or I have something attributed to me that I flat-out didn’t say. Like the April thing, which was a downright lie. But never mind that, hey? You’ve just got to take up for someone that is actually being quoted.
> 
> Genuinely don’t remember that thread. Don’t know why you’re being smug about it. I’m not even going to click on it, but I doubt it contains any credible source. How do I know? Because the WWE is not going to let AEW go unopposed. It’s as simple as that. Any operating under that “information” isn’t on the inside track.
> 
> And yeah, I said all those things about NXT, and I completely stand by them. NXT is playing the long-game. Wait for AEW to burn out their welcome and wait for the tables to turn. It’s just interesting we see an audience that will switch back on if they get a whiff of AEW defeat. Besides Balor, they haven’t even called a star down to NXT full-time. They seem pretty determined to win this as naturally as possible.


And you don't think he's being quoted out of context? Did you also think he meant it with competition as opposed to without?
All of you need some reading comprehension lessons if so 😂

And lol. What an excuse. It was talked about on the forum and in the ratings threads, but sure you missed it and you aren't taking things out of context to shit on someone for having a positive opinion 😂. They let them operate for like 2-3 weeks unopposed and their numbers improved heavily (NXT), that's why the rumours started. As I said, I didn't believe it, but there was ground to these rumours that had thousands of people discussing it.

Lol. How long is that long game for you Woods? Are you seriously going to deny NXT hot-shotting Sasha/Io and Cole/Lee in July (and then Kross/Lee) and ruining what could have been at least a 2 months story/built?

It's more telling when someone makes a prediction and gets some right, some wrong, then the pathetic critics who do nothing but try to mock the ones who get it wrong sometimes.


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> And you don't think he's being quoted out of context? Did you also think he meant it with competition as opposed to without?
> All of you need some reading comprehension lessons if so 😂
> 
> And lol. What an excuse. It was talked about on the forum and in the ratings threads, but sure you missed it and you aren't taking things out of context to shit on someone for having a positive opinion 😂. They let them operate for like 2-3 weeks and their numbers improved heavily, that's why the rumours started. As I said, I didn't believe it, but there was ground to these rumours that had thousands of people discussing it.
> 
> Lol. How long is that long game for you Woods? Are you seriously going to deny NXT hot-shotting Sasha/Io and Cole/Lee in July (and then Kross/Lee) and ruining what could have been at least a 2 months story/built?
> 
> It's more telling when someone makes a prediction and gets some right, some wrong, then the pathetic critics who do nothing but try to mock the ones who get it wrong sometimes.


AEW was going to have competition though. So yes, yes I do think he was talking about AEW with competition. Someone around television should have known that.

You are way overblowing the word “rumours.” It sounds like a bunch of AEW marks pipe-dreaming. I’ve never even heard On-the-Take Meltzer suggest NXT was going to move, and you know he would fan those flames if he could.

You could maybe argue Lee and Kross was rushed. Hardly a fucking play for ratings though — Lee is the bigger star and basically lost to get called up. It’s not really hot-shotting though. Doesn’t sit right with Sasha/Io either. It was a _match_. Big whoop? Promoting a match isn’t really in hot-shot territory. Cole was NXT Champion forever and a day. It was an appropriate time for him to lose. Not hot-shotting.


----------



## DaSlacker

Maybe a bold prediction but NXT will never regularly beat AEW head to head. Simply because AEW has a hook that NXT doesn't have - it's not owned by the McMahons. Against Raw or SmackDown and that wouldn't be enough. But the third tier, despite being a strong brand, isn't enough to overcome that need for an alternative.


----------



## The Wood

DaSlacker said:


> Maybe a bold prediction but NXT will never regularly beat AEW head to head. Simply because AEW has a hook that NXT doesn't have - it's not owned by the McMahons. Against Raw or SmackDown and that wouldn't be enough. But the third tier, despite being a strong brand, isn't enough to overcome that need for an alternative.


Fair reasoning, and that has been to their advantage early on, but I just can’t see that lasting _forever_. At some point, something is going to click somewhere. Even if it’s just Scarlett wearing less clothing and them getting that hot act that connects like a Daniel Bryan.

I don’t think AEW is good enough to combat that intentionally. They have a lot of fan goodwill, but they are eroding a lot of it, and they’re only going to get cockier and do weirder and weirder things. At some point things will flip.

Especially if you factor in that at some point you are probably going to see a talent exodus from AEW. The star exposure is in WWE. MJF, Sammy Guevara, Wardlow, Jungle Boy, Britt Baker. At some point they’re all likely to entertain WWE deals. That’s going to alter the perception of AEW.


----------



## DaSlacker

The Wood said:


> Fair reasoning, and that has been to their advantage early on, but I just can’t see that lasting _forever_. At some point, something is going to click somewhere. Even if it’s just Scarlett wearing less clothing and them getting that hot act that connects like a Daniel Bryan.
> 
> I don’t think AEW is good enough to combat that intentionally. They have a lot of fan goodwill, but they are eroding a lot of it, and they’re only going to get cockier and do weirder and weirder things. At some point things will flip.
> 
> Especially if you factor in that at some point you are probably going to see a talent exodus from AEW. The star exposure is in WWE. MJF, Sammy Guevara, Wardlow, Jungle Boy, Britt Baker. At some point they’re all likely to entertain WWE deals. That’s going to alter the perception of AEW.


Ratings will drop eventually (head to head). But that might be a problem for NXT too, so it could even itself out as Dynamite maintains that small lead. Or work the other way - NXT retains its momentum and keeps a wrestlecrap AEW higher than it would be due back and forth channel switching. 

Plus never underestimate the lure of batshit crazy wrestling lol. It doesn't sell tickets or PPV or merchandise. But it can get people watching your show. I remember both Nitro and then Impact numbers dropping after Russo left. The old car crash TV thing. 

I'm not sure NXT is geared to find that super hot talent. Partly because of being the C brand, but mainly because they're not on the road even in normal times. I think there's a ceiling to studio wrestling. Either way, if the talent gets that over, you can bet Vince is bringing him or her to the main roster. I bet he's already drawing up plans for Kross, Ripley, Walter and McAfee for 2021.

No question, unless they are signed to very long term contracts. I'd add Starks and Page to those names. They'd all beef up NXT massively. But it works the other way. You have Impact, NWA and ROH acting as feeder system to AEW. Poteyou have talent jumping from WWE, cutting wannabe edgy 'fuck you Vince' promos. Guys like Tommy End, Uhaa Nation, Ricochet, El Generico. Does that give them a bit of a retirement home image? Probably. But it keeps things moving.


----------



## The Wood

DaSlacker said:


> Ratings will drop eventually (head to head). But that might be a problem for NXT too, so it could even itself out as Dynamite maintains that small lead. Or work the other way - NXT retains its momentum and keeps a wrestlecrap AEW higher than it would be due back and forth channel switching.
> 
> Plus never underestimate the lure of batshit crazy wrestling lol. It doesn't sell tickets or PPV or merchandise. But it can get people watching your show. I remember both Nitro and then Impact numbers dropping after Russo left. The old car crash TV thing.
> 
> I'm not sure NXT is geared to find that super hot talent. Partly because of being the C brand, but mainly because they're not on the road even in normal times. I think there's a ceiling to studio wrestling. Either way, if the talent gets that over, you can bet Vince is bringing him or her to the main roster. I bet he's already drawing up plans for Kross, Ripley, Walter and McAfee for 2021.
> 
> No question, unless they are signed to very long term contracts. I'd add Starks and Page to those names. They'd all beef up NXT massively. But it works the other way. You have Impact, NWA and ROH acting as feeder system to AEW. Poteyou have talent jumping from WWE, cutting wannabe edgy 'fuck you Vince' promos. Guys like Tommy End, Uhaa Nation, Ricochet, El Generico. Does that give them a bit of a retirement home image? Probably. But it keeps things moving.


Excellent post. I don’t really disagree with anything. I think NXT was always intending to travel, but it was just too early in the war to. I can’t see them running big arenas, but I can see them doing smaller ones.


----------



## fabi1982

The Definition of Technician said:


> Well when you put comments like
> 
> 
> 
> Available on the latest page in the NXT ratings thread cause it's dead there
> it DOES make it embarassing for you.
> 
> Imagine thinking someone making a prediction based on if he thought it was "with or without" competition DOESN'T matter?
> And you were arrogant enough to say because he was off, based on that only, that his opinion is irrelevant *ON THE WHOLE SCALE* OF WRESTLING?
> 
> It's like me predicting the Lakers will win, but then Lebron gets injured and they don't, and suddenly I'm wrong and no other opinion I can have matters. What a joke.


Then again, even with this meant to be 1.4m without competition, it would have meant to get 40% more viewers than on that date...in two month...this has nothing to do with „lebron getting injured“, this is pure delusion and even you know that. But of course you wouldn’t say he was wrong even concidering this for a non competition time, because „hey when we fans do something wrong its fine, but if the haters do...fuck the haters“


----------



## Not Lying

The Wood said:


> AEW was going to have competition though. So yes, yes I do think he was talking about AEW with competition. Someone around television should have known that.
> 
> You are way overblowing the word “rumours.” It sounds like a bunch of AEW marks pipe-dreaming. I’ve never even heard On-the-Take Meltzer suggest NXT was going to move, and you know he would fan those flames if he could.
> 
> You could maybe argue Lee and Kross was rushed. Hardly a fucking play for ratings though — Lee is the bigger star and basically lost to get called up. It’s not really hot-shotting though. Doesn’t sit right with Sasha/Io either. It was a _match_. Big whoop? Promoting a match isn’t really in hot-shot territory. Cole was NXT Champion forever and a day. It was an appropriate time for him to lose. Not hot-shotting.


Well then you clearly need reading comprehension and context lessons, nothing else I can say to that lol

No, you are the one downplaying the events at the time.

lol sure man. They announced Sasha/Io (arguably the biggest dream match in the company for the women) 3 days before on twitter with no build to combat AEW's TV special, but sure, it wasn't hot shotted 😂



fabi1982 said:


> Then again, even with this meant to be 1.4m without competition, it would have meant to get 40% more viewers than on that date...in two month...this has nothing to do with „lebron getting injured“, this is pure delusion and even you know that. But of course you wouldn’t say he was wrong even concidering this for a non competition time, because „hey when we fans do something wrong its fine, but if the haters do...fuck the haters“


"Then again", so you can admit that first part I was saying is true ^^

What do you want here exactly? Yeah 1.4m was very optimistic, I had it at around 1.2m with no competition considering some segments were peaking at 1.2m already, so no, I wouldn't call 1.4m "pure delusion", but hard reach.

It's around a 35% increase in 2 month to be more exact, and they did themselves grow 30% between June and September. So they can grow considerably promoting the show right and building it around their biggest stars.
I'm more wary of my predictions now with AEW because I see that they don't plan to use Moxley to his full drawing capacity considering almost twice a months he would be in very short segments.

Now, I'm more entertained by you deflecting from your ridiculous claim that it shouldn't matter if someone made a prediction based on if he was considering a number to be vs competition or not, and then add spice to claim saying "no wrestling opinion is relevant after that" lol. You do realize how terrible that post was yeah?
But, I'll give you this, Not as pathetic as the guy who kept a screenshot of a prediction on his computer to use it 2 months later with little context 😂


----------



## fabi1982

The Definition of Technician said:


> Well then you clearly need reading comprehension and context lessons, nothing else I can say to that lol
> 
> No, you are the one downplaying the events at the time.
> 
> lol sure man. They announced Sasha/Io (arguably the biggest dream match in the company for the women) 3 days before on twitter with no build to combat AEW's TV special, but sure, it wasn't hot shotted 😂
> 
> 
> 
> "Then again", so you can admit that first part I was saying is true ^^
> 
> What do you want here exactly? Yeah 1.4m was very optimistic, I had it at around 1.2m with no competition considering some segments were peaking at 1.2m already, so no, I wouldn't call 1.4m "pure delusion", but hard reach.
> 
> It's around a 35% increase in 2 month to be more exact, and they did themselves grow 30% between June and September. So they can grow considerably promoting the show right and building it around their biggest stars.
> I'm more wary of my predictions now with AEW because I see that they don't plan to use Moxley to his full drawing capacity considering almost twice a months he would be in very short segments.
> 
> Now, I'm more entertained by you deflecting from your ridiculous claim that it shouldn't matter if someone made a prediction based on if he was considering a number to be vs competition or not, and then add spice to claim saying "no wrestling opinion is relevant after that" lol. You do realize how terrible that post was yeah?
> But, I'll give you this, Not as pathetic as the guy who kept a screenshot of a prediction on his computer to use it 2 months later with little context 😂


Yeah of course your said the truth, but that doesnt make it less laughable with the screenshot 

Oh and excibit A on why "you AEW fans" are delusional is what you wrote about the increase between June/September. You actually think this is new viewers? Not just the old viewers coming back after the corona scares. And 30% of 650k is a lot less than 30% of 1m, but then again this is also something you know, but yeah, it still means the same, if it fits your narrative, right?

So going from your lowest rating ever to some less bad number, is similar to going from your 3rd highest rating to 1.4m? At least this is what you wrote there. You see, it goes both directions.


----------



## Not Lying

fabi1982 said:


> Yeah of course your said the truth, but that doesnt make it less laughable with the screenshot
> 
> Oh and excibit A on why "you AEW fans" are delusional is what you wrote about the increase between June/September. You actually think this is new viewers? Not just the old viewers coming back after the corona scares. And 30% of 650k is a lot less than 30% of 1m, but then again this is also something you know, but yeah, it still means the same, if it fits your narrative, right?
> 
> So going from your lowest rating ever to some less bad number, is similar to going from your 3rd highest rating to 1.4m? At least this is what you wrote there. You see, it goes both directions.


No, it's not similar, because it's just not "delusional". Delusional means it's not in the realm of possibility.
if a show is peaking in viewership at 1.2m, and fans were expecting them to continue booking steady good shows (which they didn't, at least not as good the previous month) + didn't take into account Elections/News and Competition, it's not delusional.

Second, How do you know it's not new viewers? See, you have *literally* no proof. You just assume and think you're 100% right.
do you have data to back it up? The ratings from July-Sep are significantly higher than March-June period, that's a long period of time where fans had their "covid scare", ass you like to put it. I think there is a obviously a cross over, but they probably did gain new viewers and it wasn't just old fans.
Plus you are the one who started with a "%" increase and how "ridiculous" it is, not by using "full numbers", so I continued with the apples to apples comparison. Next time, you use a full number if you want to accentuate your point.


----------



## fabi1982

The Definition of Technician said:


> No, it's not similar, because it's just not "delusional". Delusional means it's not in the realm of possibility.
> if a show is peaking in viewership at 1.2m, and fans were expecting them to continue booking steady good shows (which they didn't, at least not as good the previous month) + didn't take into account Elections/News and Competition, it's not delusional.
> 
> Second, How do you know it's not new viewers? See, you have *literally* no proof. You just assume and think you're 100% right.
> do you have data to back it up? The ratings from July-Sep are significantly higher than March-June period, that's a long period of time where fans had their "covid scare", ass you like to put it. I think there is a obviously a cross over, but they probably did gain new viewers and it wasn't just old fans.
> Plus you are the one who started with a "%" increase and how "ridiculous" it is, not by using "full numbers", so I continued with the apples to apples comparison. Next time, you use a full number if you want to accentuate your point.


So you say that NXT and Smackdown got all these new viewers as well? So basically 800k new viewers came to wrestling? Anyways, it still is delusional to not at least know that an Election will have an impact. But hey you dont have your numbers with proof and so do I, so I call it even.


----------



## 3venflow

I don't have the metrics, but from spending a lot of time on social media I can safely say AEW has brought back a _lot_ of viewers of the Attitude/Monday Night Wars era (including myself).


----------



## Erik.

3venflow said:


> I don't have the metrics, but from spending a lot of time on social media I can safely say AEW has brought back a _lot_ of viewers of the Attitude/Monday Night Wars era (including myself).


And two members of my family.


----------



## Prosper

NathanMayberry said:


> PSA: The Prosperous One who supposedly works in TV predicted that AEW would be at 1.4 million in the post Full Gear episode. Ensure he remembers this, the next time he tries to Appeal to Authority here.


LMAO I don't know if I should waste my time responding to this or not. 

1.) Who's the Authority? 

2.) Are we just gonna ignore the context of why and when I said this? 

3.) Why didn't you quote or tag me? 

4.) How long have you had this saved to your computer? 

5.) Do you know what a prediction is? 

6.) How many times have you thought about me when posting in this section?


----------



## Aedubya

3venflow said:


> I don't have the metrics, but from spending a lot of time on social media I can safely say AEW has brought back a _lot_ of viewers of the Attitude/Monday Night Wars era (including myself).


Me too


----------



## Chip Chipperson

3venflow said:


> I don't have the metrics, but from spending a lot of time on social media I can safely say AEW has brought back a _lot_ of viewers of the Attitude/Monday Night Wars era (including myself).


I don't understand this point. AEW doesn't offer anything that even kind of resembles the Attitude Era and I feel like the majority of the people who tuned in who watched back then to give it a chance are now gone also (1.4 to 700k)

I know Bdon was a former WCW fan who returned because it was a new wrestling show on TNT and there are a few here who have similar stories but "A lot of viewers of the Attitude Era"? I just don't buy it. I don't see the appeal.

AEW is meme wrestling that has hooked the modern independent wrestling fans.


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> Well then you clearly need reading comprehension and context lessons, nothing else I can say to that lol
> 
> No, you are the one downplaying the events at the time.
> 
> lol sure man. They announced Sasha/Io (arguably the biggest dream match in the company for the women) 3 days before on twitter with no build to combat AEW's TV special, but sure, it wasn't hot shotted


Downplaying what events? Shows scheduled to change their dates for a few basketball games or whatever? That was never going to be a permanent thing, and no one serious thought it was.

Sasha/Io is not a dream match, lol. If you think it is, then you must be a bigger fan of NXT than I am. If Sasha/Io gets your blood going, I can’t imagine what Steve Austin vs. Hulk Hogan would do to you.

It was a match. Sasha Banks and Io Shirai were both on NXT and they had a match. By your definition, every match in AEW that is even slightly anticipated has been hot-shotted. 



3venflow said:


> I don't have the metrics, but from spending a lot of time on social media I can safely say AEW has brought back a _lot_ of viewers of the Attitude/Monday Night Wars era (including myself).


Nope, sorry. You can speak for yourself, but when you’re in an echo chamber on social media (by the mere reality of how it works), you can’t present that as anything more than anecdote.

I know plenty of people that have stopped watching in the last year. How’s that? We also know the ratings of the show and know that it’s not that impressice



Erik. said:


> And two members of my family.


We’re up to three.



prosperwithdeen said:


> LMAO I don't know if I should waste my time responding to this or not.
> 
> 1.) Who's the Authority?
> 
> 2.) Are we just gonna ignore the context of why and when I said this?
> 
> 3.) Why didn't you quote or tag me?
> 
> 4.) How long have you had this saved to your computer?
> 
> 5.) Do you know what a prediction is?
> 
> 6.) How many times have you thought about me when posting in this section?


Seriously, not taking digs at you, can I play?

1) In this scenario, you are purporting to be.

2) What was the context? I am quoted out of context, so it would only be fair to let you explain yours.

3) Irrelevant.

4) Irrelevant.

5) I don’t understand this point.

6) Irrelevant.

Sounds to me like Nathan just made a prediction that your post wasn’t going to age well. And again, at least from where I sit, it’s not to attack you or anything —it’s just a reminder that people don’t know. 



Chip Chipperson said:


> I don't understand this point. AEW doesn't offer anything that even kind of resembles the Attitude Era and I feel like the majority of the people who tuned in who watched back then to give it a chance are now gone also (1.4 to 700k)
> 
> I know Bdon was a former WCW fan who returned because it was a new wrestling show on TNT and there are a few here who have similar stories but "A lot of viewers of the Attitude Era"? I just don't buy it. I don't see the appeal.
> 
> AEW is meme wrestling that has hooked the modern independent wrestling fans.


100% this.


----------



## Not Lying

The Wood said:


> Downplaying what events? Shows scheduled to change their dates for a few basketball games or whatever? That was never going to be a permanent thing, and no one serious thought it was.
> 
> Sasha/Io is not a dream match, lol. If you think it is, then you must be a bigger fan of NXT than I am. If Sasha/Io gets your blood going, I can’t imagine what Steve Austin vs. Hulk Hogan would do to you.
> 
> It was a match. Sasha Banks and Io Shirai were both on NXT and they had a match. By your definition, every match in AEW that is even slightly anticipated has been hot-shotted.


lol the match was trending for days on twitter with everyone calling it a dream match. There's different layers of dream matches smart-ass.


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> lol the match was trending for days on twitter with everyone calling it a dream match. There's different layers of dream matches smart-ass.


A dream match is a match you can only dream of happening. If anyone is dreaming of Sasha and Io then it’s a wet dream.


----------



## DammitChrist

Sasha Banks vs Io Shirai is definitely considered to be dream-match worthy (at least before they finally faced each other earlier this summer).


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> Sasha Banks vs Io Shirai is definitely considered to be dream-match worthy (at least before they finally faced each other earlier this summer).


You’re dreaming.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

What do you guys think? 800k


----------



## 3venflow

760k I'll go for. I just think matches like Spears vs. Scorpio and Tay vs. Velvet are big risks of losing viewers. I hope the main event popped the rating it deserved though. Great match.


----------



## The Wood

791,567


----------



## Klitschko

Optikk is All Elite said:


> What do you guys think? 800k


Around 800k. The surprise thing kept some people probably.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I have been pessimistic lately but I feel good about last night. 922k/.34 demo


----------



## Prosper

Gonna go with 850K this week, last week was a good show so I would think it should trickle into this week, and last nights show was very entertaining


----------



## omaroo

What an awful show tbh.

Apart from Pacs return and main event everything else was pure trash.

They really deserve a low rating for such crap.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

prosperwithdeen said:


> Gonna go with 850K this week, last week was a good show so I would think it should trickle into this week, and last nights show was very entertaining


As good as last nights show was, it was great timing with the fallout coming from Full Gear.

Trick is to do it again next week. Last night was a rare show where there were no wasted segments, all of them were focused and really good to great.


----------



## Erik.

What did they get last week, 717k or so?

I reckon about 780k?


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Last year the show after Full Gear saw a 22% rating increase & 16% viewership increase. 

If they follow that, they would be at .36 rating - 832k viewers. We shall see.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1326994402447863808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1326994704072847365
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Shock Street

Now we wait a week to see which way SHAQPAC turns the dial. As it stands it looks like 750ish is our number unless something significant happens.


----------



## Klitschko

Well that underperformed. I was expecting over 800k for some reason. I think The Wood came the closest actually to predicting the rating.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Not good they couldn’t get 800k for last night. It really underperformed here.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Yeah, I expected .35/900 so I am very disappointed.


----------



## 3venflow

Klitschko said:


> Well that underperformed. I was expecting over 800k for some reason. I think The Wood came the closest actually to predicting the rating.


I said 760k, think I win the prize. Too many non-draws on this week's show.


----------



## Alright_Mate

Well that is underwhelming.

They’ve been on an average streak for a month or so now, thought the good PPV on Saturday would rise more interest, unfortunately it clearly hasn’t.

Episodes desperately need to become more consistent in terms of quality, these average underwhelming ratings are starting to become a consistent trend.


----------



## Erik.

Yeah - didn't think it'd get 800k or above.

Don't think they'll see that until at least Omega/Moxley.


----------



## Klitschko

Ozell Gray said:


> Not good they couldn’t get 800k for last night. It really underperformed here.


Especially with everyone expecting some big surprise and its was the fallout show from a very good Full Gear.


----------



## The XL 2

At some point, the novelty of AEW not being the WWE is going to wear off and they'll lose even more people. It's a decent product but it's not professional wrestling and its not mainstream.


----------



## RainmakerV2

TKO Wrestling said:


> Yeah, I expected .35/900 so I am very disappointed.



Lol why the fuck would you expect that?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Not the best rating at all for where we are. No OC, I guess.


----------



## CtrlAltDel

RainmakerV2 said:


> Lol why the fuck would you expect that?


Coming out of pay per view and the announcement of a surprise that will change professional wrestling?


----------



## Prosper

Hmm looks like that stretch of bad Jericho centered episodes did turn some cable viewers away. Last week and this week was good quality wise IMO so continue stringing together good shows consistently and they’ll be back where they wanna be. You never know with the cable audience, it’s way up one week then way down 2 weeks later, then back up again.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Klitschko said:


> Especially with everyone expecting some big surprise and its was the fallout show from a very good Full Gear.


Yep and the “big surprise” ended up being a washed up Shaquille O Neal and the return of Pac. They’re shooting themselves in the foot with this booking.


----------



## omaroo

Well deserved for a crap show.

700k is their average and over time I dont think it will increase but actually drop.


----------



## Prosper

The XL 2 said:


> At some point, the novelty of AEW not being the WWE is going to wear off and they'll lose even more people. It's a decent product but it's not professional wrestling and its not mainstream.


I don’t understand posts like this lol. WWE is barely mainstream. How is it not professional wrestling? What is?


----------



## rbl85

Alright_Mate said:


> Well that is underwhelming.
> 
> They’ve been on an average streak for a month or so now, thought the good PPV on Saturday would rise more interest, unfortunately it clearly hasn’t.
> 
> Episodes desperately need to become more consistent in terms of quality, these average underwhelming ratings are starting to become a consistent trend.


Before the covid the shows were doing more than 800K in average


----------



## rbl85

Ozell Gray said:


> Yep and the “big surprise” ended up being a washed up Shaquille O Neal and the return of Pac. They’re shooting themselves in the foot with this booking.


The majority of people watching AEW didn't even know about the surprise.


----------



## RainmakerV2

CtrlAltDel said:


> Coming out of pay per view and the announcement of a surprise that will change professional wrestling?



So? What really happened on the PPV? Two secondary titles changed hands and Omega became #1 contender. No one outside the wrestling bubble knows who Omega is and everyone knew the Bucks were winning anyway. And Pac, while I like him, has never drawn any numbers. They have guys like Miro and Brodie who people do know, but they seem to be on milk cartons. So you get the same 700k that watch every week.


----------



## rbl85

prosperwithdeen said:


> Hmm looks like that stretch of bad Jericho centered episodes did turn some cable viewers away. Last week and this week was good quality wise IMO so continue stringing together good shows consistently and they’ll be back where they wanna be. You never know with the cable audience, it’s way up one week then way down 2 weeks later, then back up again.


The amount of viewers of a wrestling show in 2020 is not about the quality of the show itself but more about what's on the other channels at the same moment.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> So? What really happened on the PPV? Two secondary titles changed hands and Omega became #1 contender. No one outside the wrestling bubble knows who Omega is and everyone knew the Bucks were winning anyway. And Pac, while I like him, has never drawn any numbers. They have guys like Miro and Brodie who people do know, but they seem to be on milk cartons. So you get the same 700k that watch every week.


Miro or Brodie lee segments are far behind the ones of the Bucks or Omega in terms of ratings.


----------



## Klitschko

rbl85 said:


> The amount of viewers of a wrestling show in 2020 is not about the quality of the show itself but more about what's on the other channels at the same moment.


I would definitely say that quality helps. Thats why Smackdown ratings got a big increase when Roman returned, turned heel and started this story with USO that a lot of people love.


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> Miro or Brodie lee segments are far behind the ones of the Bucks or Omega in terms of ratings.


Miro has been advertised for what, 1 show? And Brodie hasn't been there for 5 weeks.


----------



## Ozell Gray

rbl85 said:


> The majority of people watching AEW didn't even know about the surprise.


Not true. There’s no casuals watching Dynamite. They just have hardcore wrestling fans watching and those are the guys who come on the internet and read dirtsheets so they did know about the “surprise.”


----------



## CtrlAltDel

What’s going on with Brodie? Is he pulling Sting late 1996


----------



## Erik.

Whats clear is NXT probably need to move to a different day.

End the Wednesday Night Pillowfight.


----------



## Prosper

rbl85 said:


> The amount of viewers of a wrestling show in 2020 is not about the quality of the show itself but more about what's on the other channels at the same moment.


Oh I know there are a huge number of factors, quality being one, and I know this isn’t the whole audience, I’m more so analyzing and talking about people with cable boxes. I comment on these things just for the sake of keeping up with the TV deal side of wrestling.

We don’t know what these people are doing when they’re in front of their TV’s, they could be entertaining guests at the time who want to watch a movie or they could have to leave the house for a variety of reasons. I don’t put too much stock into it, I’m just a digital marketer so I like to see all the numbers lol


----------



## 3venflow

Spears vs. Scorpio Sky (a Dark-based feud, both rarely on Dynamite in recent months)
B&B vs. Dustin & QT (mostly Dark-based feud, neither team has had any sort of push recently)
The women's match (very little reason for it)
Cage vs. Sydal (nice match but kind've out of nowhere)

I don't know why anyone is surprised by the rating not being higher than 800k. Besides the main event, it was basically an upgraded Dark lineup.

TK seems content with the ratings as he continues this rotation thing where undercarders get their special moment (like QT on Dynamite). If he focused on the big dogs and undercarders who seem to have most appeal then ratings would probably go up.


----------



## rbl85

Klitschko said:


> I would definitely say that quality helps. Thats why Smackdown ratings got a big increase when Roman returned, turned heel and started this story with USO that a lot of people love.


Quality help of course but AEW always does the best rating when the opposition is weak or weaker than the other weeks.


----------



## Prosper

Ozell Gray said:


> Not true. There’s no casuals watching Dynamite. They just have hardcore wrestling fans watching and those are the guys who come on the internet and read dirtsheets so they did know about the “surprise.”


It’s the same with all of wrestling man.


----------



## rbl85

3venflow said:


> Spears vs. Scorpio Sky (a Dark-based feud, both rarely on Dynamite in recent months)
> B&B vs. Dustin & QT (mostly Dark-based feud, neither team has had any sort of push recently)
> *The women's match (very little reason for it)*
> Cage vs. Sydal (nice match but kind've out of nowhere)
> 
> I don't know why anyone is surprised by the rating not being higher than 800k. Besides the main event, it was basically an upgraded Dark lineup.
> 
> TK seems content with the ratings as he continues this rotation thing where undercarders get their special moment (like QT on Dynamite). If he focused on the big dogs and undercarders who seem to have most appeal then ratings would probably go up.


You don't see the number of people bitching about the lack of women on the show ?


----------



## RainmakerV2

Erik. said:


> Whats clear is NXT probably need to move to a different day.
> 
> End the Wednesday Night Pillowfight.


They dont have Balor, Cole or Kross and have to main event guys like Oney lorcan and Breezango and they still come within 100k of them most weeks and beat them every now and then lol.


----------



## rbl85

Erik. said:


> Whats clear is NXT probably need to move to a different day.
> 
> End the Wednesday Night Pillowfight.


NXT might even do better than AEW


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> *They dont have Balor, Cole or Kross* and have to main event guys like Oney lorcan and Breezango and they still come within 100k of them most weeks and beat them every now and then lol.


It was the same thing when those 3 were there.


----------



## 3venflow

rbl85 said:


> You don't see the number of people bitching about the lack of women on the show ?


Oh I do and I'm not a big fan of women's wrestling, but this match was quite pointless. Coming off the PPV, they could have had something involving Shida, Serena, Nyla, Britt and Thunder Rosa. They have two champions and neither appeared.


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> It was the same thing when those 3 were there.


The point is they beat Oney Lorcan and Breezango by 100k and have orgasms about it. Its hilarious.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> The point is they beat Oney Lorcan and Breezango by 100k and *have orgasms about it*. Its hilarious.


Who have orgasm about it ?


----------



## Ozell Gray

prosperwithdeen said:


> It’s the same with all of wrestling man.


Raw and SmackDown still have casuals watching, hence the 1.7 million viewership for Raw and 2.1 million viewership for SmackDown. Casuals are the reason those two shows are still the biggest wrestling shows today.

The opposite is true for Dynamite and NXT whom just have the hardcore fans watching. That’s why neither show can and haven’t grown.


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> Who have orgasm about it ?


Mr. 'End the Wednesday night pillowfight." If Vince gave a shit he'd have both survivor series teams invade NXT with Roman and put a number just to laugh. He doesnt care so he doesnt. This is only a "war" to AEW superfans deseprately stroking their ego because at over a year in they're still in the 700ks, even coming off hyped PPVs.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> Mr. 'End the Wednesday night pillowfight." *If Vince gave a shit he'd have both survivor series teams invade NXT with Roman* and put a number just to laugh. He doesnt care so he doesnt. This is only a "war" to AEW superfans deseprately stroking their ego because at over a year in they're still in the 700ks, even coming off hyped PPVs.


Well he did it last year with Becky Lynch and they did put a number but it was back to the original numbers pretty quick.


----------



## Alright_Mate

rbl85 said:


> Before the covid the shows were doing more than 800K in average


The covid era has seen them post 1 million at one point, they didn’t have competition from NXT on some weeks; however the shows deservingly posted high numbers because the quality throughout the episodes was consistent.

Past month or so they’ve gone to being bang average, bang average shows = bang average 700k rating.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> They dont have Balor, Cole or Kross and have to main event guys like Oney lorcan and Breezango and they still come within 100k of them most weeks and beat them every now and then lol.


There are people who watch NXT regardless of what or who is on. There are people who will not watch AEW regardless of what or who is on purely because of their loyalty towards WWE.

It's the same way round. The comparison is silly.


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> Well he did it last year with Becky Lynch and they did put a number but it was back to the original numbers pretty quick.



Yeah and if he gave a shit he would do it every week through Survivor Series and beat AEW for a month just because he could. He doesnt care lol. NXT is there to give USA cheap programming and keep Hunter happy and chip away at AEWs viewership. Thats it. Theres no war lol. If Vince McMahon was fighting a WAR do you think he would have Breezango main eventing NXT when he has an out to bring in his big guns with Survivor Series? Get fuckin real.


----------



## omaroo

AEW aint dying are some like to say.

BUT they are not really that popular either nor are they growing.

Its not out of the realms of possibility their ratings could be around 500k in 12-18 months time.


----------



## rbl85

Alright_Mate said:


> The covid era has seen them post 1 million at one point, they didn’t have competition from NXT on some weeks; however the shows deservingly posted high numbers because the quality throughout the episodes was consistent.
> 
> Past month or so they’ve gone to being bang average, bang average shows = bang average 700k rating.


By the way i forgot "not" before "doing" XD


----------



## Prosper

Ozell Gray said:


> Raw and SmackDown still have casuals watching, hence the 1.7 million viewership for Raw and 2.1 million viewership for SmackDown. Casuals are the reason those two shows are still the biggest wrestling shows today.
> 
> The opposite is true for Dynamite and NXT whom just have the hardcore fans watching. That’s why neither show can and haven’t grown.


No it’s just that RAW and SD have a bigger hardcore cable audience because they have been around longer and you have people that look at both shows as synonymous with wrestling.

WWE is not attracting new casual viewers, it’s the same hardcore WWE people who have always been watching. There is nothing main roster WWE is doing that is so astronomically better than what AEW or NXT is doing that will attract new casuals. Their main roster product is ten times worse than anything else in wrestling. NXT is WWE’s A show so if that isn’t bringing in new casuals then the main roster certainly isn’t.


----------



## Erik.

rbl85 said:


> NXT might even do better than AEW


Then good for them?

That's what we ultimately want right? New eyes on a variety of wrestling products?


----------



## The XL 2

prosperwithdeen said:


> I don’t understand posts like this lol. WWE is barely mainstream. How is it not professional wrestling? What is?


It's glorified gymnastics with a touch of extreme sports entertainment


----------



## The XL 2

omaroo said:


> AEW aint dying are some like to say.
> 
> BUT they are not really that popular either nor are they growing.
> 
> Its not out of the realms of possibility their ratings could be around 500k in 12-18 months time.


I've watched every week since they debuted because I wanted a non WWE company to succeed, but frankly the company isn't very good. At some point people like me will bail.


----------



## Dark Emperor

prosperwithdeen said:


> No it’s just that RAW and SD have a bigger hardcore cable audience because they have been around longer and you have people that look at both shows as synonymous with wrestling.
> 
> WWE is not attracting new casual viewers, it’s the same hardcore WWE people who have always been watching. There is nothing main roster WWE is doing that is so astronomically better than what AEW or NXT is doing that will attract new casuals. Their main roster product is ten times worse than anything else in wrestling. NXT is WWE’s A show so if that isn’t bringing in new casuals then the main roster certainly isn’t.


I disagree. Smackdown is by far the best show on all 4 wrestling brands and has been that way for some months now. They actually have two amazing storylines with Roman/Jey & Sasha/Bayley which beat everything else on all the other shows. Now they added Rollins to the roster, the viewership is seeing consistent increase on a weekly basis.

It's the only show trending upwards last few months. AEW did for a while but have headed back down last couple of months.


----------



## Prosper

The XL 2 said:


> It's glorified gymnastics with a touch of extreme sports entertainment


So you’re saying no promotion in your mind gets it right then, because from what I see, a lot of AEW consists of heavyweight, classic wrestling that we grew up on. Especially in the main event and mid card scene. There is a gymnastic feel from half of the tag division but you still have teams like FTR and Butcher and the Blade that don’t flip and balance it out. 

What is pro wrestling to you? Real question I’m not trying to bury your opinion.


----------



## Ozell Gray

prosperwithdeen said:


> No it’s just that RAW and SD have a bigger hardcore cable audience because they have been around longer and you have people that look at both shows as synonymous with wrestling.
> 
> WWE is not attracting new casual viewers, it’s the same hardcore WWE people who have always been watching. There is nothing main roster WWE is doing that is so astronomically better than what AEW or NXT is doing that will attract new casuals. Their main roster product is ten times worse than anything else in wrestling. NXT is WWE’s A show so if that isn’t bringing in new casuals then the main roster certainly isn’t.


Casuals still watch Raw and SmackDown which is why they’re still the biggest wrestling shows today, and longetivity isn’t really an argument because if longetivity was the reason then they should be drawing 12 million viewers because of how long they’ve been around but they aren’t. They’re synonymous with wrestling because they’re the two biggest shows in the sport so of course when people talk about wrestling shows they’re going to talk about Raw and SmackDown.

You’re right WWE aren’t attracting new casuals but they still have casuals watching, hence the bigger viewership they do over every other company. They don’t have to “attract” new casuals when the point was Raw and SmackDown are mostly watched by casuals, meanwhile Dynamite and NXT are only watched smarks hence why Raw and SmackDown get more viewers. Lol dude just because you like NXT more than Raw and SmackDown doesn’t make it WWE’s “A show.” WWE’s A show is and has always been Raw because that’s the flagship show and that’s the show that’s making them the most money today. NXT is insignificant in the grand scheme of things and its just an added bonus with the $30 million a year contract. Raw and SmackDown are WWE A and B shows because those shows are their bread and butter since those two shows makes them over $500 million in revenue a year.


----------



## Prosper

Dark Emperor said:


> I disagree. Smackdown is by far the best show on all 4 wrestling brands and has been that way for some months now. They actually have two amazing storylines with Roman/Jey & Sasha/Bayley which beat everything else on all the other shows. Now they added Rollins to the roster, the viewership is seeing consistent increase on a weekly basis.
> 
> It's the only show trending upwards last few months. AEW did for a while but have headed back down last couple of months.


I wouldn't go that far. SD has had a great Roman/Jey Uso storyline that I would put on the same level as Kingston/Moxley. Sasha/Bayley was botched but I agree it's better than anything the women are doing in AEW. But if you look at the rest of the show, there is no tag division scene, there are no storylines or angles playing out outside of the stuff with Roman and Sasha, and the IC title scene is screwed up. 

Yeah the Roman stuff is awesome and I have been enjoying it, but if you're looking at the show from top to bottom, I objectively can't put SD over AEW. Not until they actually start building some talent, forming some actual tag teams, and putting together angles we can invest in outside of the main event. The SSeries thing for example has no stakes or reasoning behind the brand warfare. 

SD is trending upwards, but I can't say it's the better show right now. People are just interested in this new heel turn. Just my opinion.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

0.30 - as expected.

well... was thinking 0.32 - but news was still strong

should get better from here leading to 2 Dec


----------



## rbl85

Ozell Gray said:


> Casuals still watch Raw and SmackDown which is why they’re still the biggest wrestling shows today, and longetivity isn’t really an argument because if longetivity was the reason then they should be drawing 12 million viewers because of how long they’ve been around but they aren’t. They’re synonymous with wrestling because they’re the two biggest shows in the sport so of course when people talk about wrestling shows they’re going to talk about Raw and SmackDown.
> 
> You’re right WWE aren’t attracting new casuals but they still have casuals watching, hence the bigger viewership they do over every other company. They don’t have to “attract” new casuals when the point was Raw and SmackDown are mostly watched by casuals, meanwhile Dynamite and NXT are only watched smarks hence why Raw and SmackDown get more viewers. Lol dude just because you like NXT more than Raw and SmackDown doesn’t make it WWE’s “A show.” WWE’s A show is and has always been Raw because that’s the flagship show and that’s the show that’s making them the most money today. NXT is insignificant in the grand scheme of things and its just an added bonus with the $30 million a year contract. Raw and SmackDown are WWE A and B shows because those shows are their bread and butter since those two shows makes them over $500 million in revenue a year.


If WWE was bringing casuals then the average age of their viewers wouldn't get older and older plus they wouldn't lost millions and millions of viewers in the last 15 years.


----------



## Prosper

Ozell Gray said:


> Casuals still watch Raw and SmackDown which is why they’re still the biggest wrestling shows today, and longetivity isn’t really an argument because if longetivity was the reason then they should be drawing 12 million viewers because of how long they’ve been around but they aren’t. They’re synonymous with wrestling because they’re the two biggest shows in the sport so of course when people talk about wrestling shows they’re going to talk about Raw and SmackDown.
> 
> You’re right WWE aren’t attracting new casuals but they still have casuals watching, hence the bigger viewership they do over every other company. They don’t have to “attract” new casuals when the point was Raw and SmackDown are mostly watched by casuals, meanwhile Dynamite and NXT are only watched smarks hence why Raw and SmackDown get more viewers. Lol dude just because you like NXT more than Raw and SmackDown doesn’t make it WWE’s “A show.” WWE’s A show is and has always been Raw because that’s the flagship show and that’s the show that’s making them the most money today. NXT is insignificant in the grand scheme of things and its just an added bonus with the $30 million a year contract. Raw and SmackDown are WWE A and B shows because those shows are their bread and butter since those two shows makes them over $500 million in revenue a year.


1.) RAW, SD, NXT, and AEW have significantly more viewers than the cable numbers show. Longevity plays a huge part in that on the main roster side. RAW and SD combined across the U.S. are probably doing that 12 million number that you suggested when every medium is taken into account. NXT and AEW are probably doing 3 - 5 million each. I'm assuming that you don't watch wrestling through a cable box? Because the majority don't.

2.) These people that you're labeling as casuals are the same overall pool of hardcore wrestling fans that we are both talking about. RAW and SD's hardcore audience is bigger because they have been around longer. Casuals to you are actually hardcores that are part of an audience you can't see. If we have 12 million people watching RAW/SD, and you have 3 million people that have cable boxes from that 12 million viewer pool, then that 3 million viewer number that goes up and down every week when we read about ratings is still a part of that overall 12 million viewer audience that is already there. Some weeks those people will watch through their cable box, some weeks they won't.

3.) When I say A show I'm talking about quality. If a potential new fan watched NXT then watched RAW, why would they decide to become a new fan because of what they see on RAW compared to NXT, when RAW is 10 times worse?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

People trying to downplay this but:

- Heavily hyped big surprise that many thought could be Sting.

- Heavily anticipated rematch between the Lucha Bros

- Hyped up gimmick match

- First appearance of Darby since winning the TNT Title

- First appearance of The Bucks since winning the tag team titles

- Appearances from Cody, Kenny, Mox, Miro, Pac, Jericho and pretty much every other big star AEW has.

763,000 for that coming off a PPV and only beating the much weaker NXT by 130,000 or so? It'd be panic stations for me especially since AEW was doing mid 800's and occasional 900's just a few months ago.


----------



## Whoanma

Chip Chipperson said:


> People trying to downplay this but:
> 
> - Heavily hyped big surprise that many thought could be Sting.
> 
> - Heavily anticipated rematch between the Lucha Bros
> 
> - Hyped up gimmick match
> 
> - First appearance of Darby since winning the TNT Title
> 
> - First appearance of The Bucks since winning the tag team titles
> 
> - Appearances from Cody, Kenny, Mox, Miro, Pac, Jericho and pretty much every other big star AEW has.
> 
> 763,000 for that coming off a PPV and only beating the much weaker NXT by 130,000 or so? It'd be panic stations for me especially since AEW was doing mid 800's and occasional 900's just a few months ago.


Nobody believes







‘s
hyperbolic statements on Twitter anymore. He’s cried wolf too many times...


----------



## Ozell Gray

rbl85 said:


> If WWE was bringing casuals then the average age of their viewers wouldn't get older and older plus they wouldn't lost millions and millions of viewers in the last 15 years.


The 2.1 million viewers says they still have casuals watching especially since SmackDown just got 2.3 million viewers last week which shows and tells you casuals are still watching WWE. Average age has nothing to do with casuals watching or not. Average age just tells which age group are watching the shows more.



prosperwithdeen said:


> 1.) RAW, SD, NXT, and AEW have significantly more viewers than the cable numbers show. Longevity plays a huge part in that on the main roster side. RAW and SD combined across the U.S. are probably doing that 12 million number that you suggested when every medium is taken into account. NXT and AEW are probably doing 3 - 5 million each. I'm assuming that you don't watch wrestling through a cable box? Because the majority don't.
> 
> 2.) These people that you're labeling as casuals are the same overall pool of hardcore wrestling fans that we are both talking about. RAW and SD's hardcore audience is bigger because they have been around longer. Casuals to you are actually hardcores that are part of an audience you can't see. If we have 12 million people watching RAW/SD, and you have 3 million people that have cable boxes from that 12 million viewer pool, then that 3 million viewer number that goes up and down every week when we read about ratings is still a part of that overall 12 million viewer audience that is already there. Some weeks those people will watch through their cable box, some weeks they won't.
> 
> 3.) When I say A show I'm talking about quality. If a potential new fan watched NXT then watched RAW, why would they decide to become a new fan because of what they see on RAW compared to NXT, when RAW is 10 times worse?


I mostly watch things like movies and tv shows on tv still. Longetivity plays apart if you're talking about the Raw and SmackDown being the known shows then yes I totally 100% agree with that but I don't agree that they get more viewers because they've been around longer.

Not really because if they were all the same hardcore Wrestling fans then they'd be watching Dynamite and NXT like they do Raw and SmackDown but they aren't because those are casuals and they don't know that Dynamite exist and they simply just don't care about NXT. A casual is someone who doesn't look at dirtsheets and don't post comments on message boards like this, WrestingInc, or 411Mania. Casuals just watch the shows if they're on but they don't seem the shows out. Those are the type of viewers Raw and SmackDown have while Dynamite and NXT have hardcore Wrestling fans who reads dirtsheets, comments on message boards like wrestling forum, and does actively seeks out the shows. If your anylasis is that Raw and SmackDown does say 12 million and only 3 million watches Dynamite and NXT then thats literally 9 million casuals watching strictly Raw and SmackDown and not Dynamite or NXT. Think about that for a second, that means 75% of Wrestling fans are into Raw and SmackDown only and aren't willing to watch NXT and don't know that Dynamite exists. Thats A staggering number and sample size when you really dig deep into it.

Because NXT barely has any characters and as bad as Raw is it still has characters that a casual can care about while NXT is about Wrestling and not characters. Casuals don't care about matches with very little storytelling behind it. You're looking at it through a hardcore Fan's lens when you have to look at it through a casual's lens. If they watched NXT most if not all of them would never watch it again because it's mostly just matches while they can sit through a terrible Raw and SmackDown because they have storylines and characters despite if you think they're good or bad which is another thing for another day.


----------



## rbl85

Ozell Gray said:


> The 2.1 million viewers says they still have casuals watching especially since SmackDown just got 2.3 million viewers last week which shows and tells you casuals are still watching WWE. Average age has nothing to do with casuals watching or not. Average age just tells which age group are watchingt he shows more.


How many viewers were watching Raw before SDL moved to FOX ?


----------



## Ozell Gray

rbl85 said:


> How many viewers were watching Raw before SDL moved to FOX ?


2.3 million.


----------



## DaSlacker

I still ascribe that and last week's number to the election circus. If NXT doesn't put on a Takeover esque show and the world title match doesn't draw 850k it has to be blamed on the booking, wrestlers and storylines.

They've plateaued at between 700,000 and 800,000 (rounded). They have the potential to hit 900,000 on rare occasions. TNA had a similar problem when struggled to progress from the 1.4 to 1.7 million range, with the ability to hit 1.8 million sometimes.

Only hope of movement is:
1) Open chequebook for Punk, Lesnar, Edge (had he been available)
2) Unopposed
3) Big arenas


----------



## rbl85

Ozell Gray said:


> 2.3 million.


There you have it, the people who used to watch only RAW decided to watch SDL.

Some now only watch SDL (that's why raw is down) while others watch both shows


----------



## Ozell Gray

rbl85 said:


> There you have it, the people who used to watch only RAW decided to watch SDL.
> 
> Some now only watch SDL (that's why raw is down) while others watch both shows


Which my point is that most of those viewers are casuals watching Raw and SmackDown while Dynamite and NXT has the hardcore audience. 

Raw is down because it's terrible while SmackDown's numbers has been climbing because it's the better show to the viewers.


----------



## rbl85

Ozell Gray said:


> Which my point is that most of those viewers are casuals watching Raw and SmackDown while Dynamite and NXT has the hardcore audience.
> 
> Raw is down because it's terrible while SmackDown's numbers has been climbing because it's the better show to the viewers.


SD have the advantage over Raw of being a 2 hours show


----------



## La Parka

The past few months of having long segments dedicated to a boring, unfunny and over the hill Jericho has to have driven away a decent number of fans. Jericho turned MJF from a must see heel to a guy everyone is hoping gets away from Jericho or a guy who would just leave the TV screen WITH Jericho.


----------



## Bubbly

I'm not really surprised. I can only go off my opinion but as good as the PPV was, ultimately I no longer want to see Jericho or Matt Hardy on any wrestling for a while, MJF has lost several steps, the tag team title program has been one of the biggest let downs of the year and I can't say I'm caring too much for Moxley either. Omega has been a disappointment since day 1 so I'm not really excited for him either.



omaroo said:


> AEW aint dying are some like to say.
> 
> BUT they are not really that popular either nor are they growing.
> 
> Its not out of the realms of possibility their ratings could be around 500k in 12-18 months time.


I don't think it will go down tbh. The core audience of people who like this type will still be there and will spend a lot of money on the company. I can't see them expanding though. It's very much a 'wrestling mark' type product. I don't mean that as an insult but it's the only way I can really explain it. AEW will do fine financially because they will milk that audience who love that kind of thing.


----------



## omaroo

Any hope they may have had of being close to WWEs level is long gone.

Being the second big company should be enough for them.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

omaroo said:


> Any hope they may have had of being close to WWEs level is long gone.
> 
> Being the second big company should be enough for them.


Yeah but it's unlikely they'll pass NJPW either.

Third is still a medal in the Olympics so AEW should be pleased. Silver is going to the Japanese though


----------



## thorn123

I hate being a pessimist ... I like me some AEW a lot ... imagine if it gets lower though? It likely will. Would love to be wrong.


----------



## 10gizzle

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah but it's unlikely they'll pass NJPW either.
> 
> Third is still a medal in the Olympics so AEW should be pleased. Silver is going to the Japanese though


WWE - Founded 1980

NJPW - Founded 1972

AEW - Founded 2019

Bit too early to be making such assertions don't you think?


----------



## .christopher.

omaroo said:


> Any hope they may have had of being close to WWEs level is long gone.
> 
> Being the second big company should be enough for them.


Said hope evaporated after the very first show, nevermind now.

it was clear from the beginning this was going to be a circus, and that's exactly how it's panning out.


----------



## 10gizzle

.christopher. said:


> Said hope evaporated after the very first show, nevermind now.
> 
> it was clear from the beginning this was going to be a circus, and that's exactly how it's panning out.


Any wrestling promotion in history would gladly trade their worst, if not even most of their average and better calendar years for the year AEW just had.

Half of their existence has taken place with no fans and they're still being talked about pretty much everywhere, constantly trending #1 in various outlets.

The simple fact that hating AEW is as enjoyable and loving it is a testament to what its actually accomplished IMO.

A quote that comes to mind...

"That's like a 40-degree day. Ain't nobody got nothing to say about a 40-degree day. Fifty. Bring a smile to your face. Sixty, shit, n**** is damn near barbecuing on that motherfucker. Go down to 20, n**** get their bitch on. Get their blood complaining. But forty? Nobody give a f*** about 40. Nobody remember 40"

- Stringer Bell (The Wire)


----------



## The Wood

Klitschko said:


> Well that underperformed. I was expecting over 800k for some reason. I think The Wood came the closest actually to predicting the rating.


I think someone actually predicted 760k to be fair.

That viewership is pretty atrocious for a “Top 50” show. And yes that does matter.


----------



## justin waynes

Haha they couldn't make it to 800k ,wow aew will take over Vince company soon


----------



## Pippen94

Fallout show highlighted non star talent which saw ratings lower than expected but long-term may be a positive


----------



## Pippen94

DaveRA said:


> I hate being a pessimist ... I like me some AEW a lot ... imagine if it gets lower though? It likely will. Would love to be wrong.


That's what negative ppl want you to think. Just enjoy show. Look at TNA which is still going...


----------



## fabi1982

Pippen94 said:


> Fallout show highlighted non star talent which saw ratings lower than expected but long-term may be a positive


Ok so you call Cody, Brandi, Bucks, Jericho, MJF, Mox, Kenny "non star talent"?


----------



## Pippen94

fabi1982 said:


> Ok so you call Cody, Brandi, Bucks, Jericho, MJF, Mox, Kenny "non star talent"?


How many matches did those guys have??


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> How many matches did those guys have??


Ah so now they have to wrestle to draw ratings. If they need to wrestle to draw you ratings I'm afraid I've got some bad news...


----------



## Not Lying

.christopher. said:


> Said hope evaporated after the very first show, nevermind now.
> 
> it was clear from the beginning this was going to be a circus, and that's exactly how it's panning out.


and so who forced you to continue watching for a year+? 
😂 😂


----------



## fabi1982

Pippen94 said:


> How many matches did those guys have??


@Chip Chipperson already said it, but why do they have to wrestle? Cody had a 10min segment, so did the IC. Even Taz had several minutes. Storylines draw and what these guys did (or at least tried) is storyline progression and it seems it wasn‘t a hit...


----------



## Pippen94

fabi1982 said:


> @Chip Chipperson already said it, but why do they have to wrestle? Cody had a 10min segment, so did the IC. Even Taz had several minutes. Storylines draw and what these guys did (or at least tried) is storyline progression and it seems it wasn‘t a hit...


Because big stars wrestling matches get higher ratings. We've all been following ratings for over past year... Cmon


----------



## fabi1982

Pippen94 said:


> Because big stars wrestling matches get higher ratings. We've all been following ratings for over past year... Cmon


If their wrestling would draw, coming out of a PPV based around wrestling, wouldnt it draw higher? And of course title matches will bring in more viewers, but just looo at Kenny/Penta, which was a great match, but it didnt bring in much viewers (just an example).


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> Because big stars wrestling matches get higher ratings. We've all been following ratings for over past year... Cmon


If this is true could you explain why back in 2010 Hulk Hogan talking resulted in the highest rated segment in Impact history but the match he had a couple months later had a poor rating despite having the addition of Ric Flair?

People are into both but they certainly aren't going to say "Oh my favourite wrestler is on Dynamite tonight but they're not wrestling so I'll give it a miss".

AEW lost this one, it's okay to accept it, jump back up on the horse and hope it does better next week...


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> If this is true could you explain why back in 2010 Hulk Hogan talking resulted in the highest rated segment in Impact history but the match he had a couple months later had a poor rating despite having the addition of Ric Flair?
> 
> People are into both but they certainly aren't going to say "Oh my favourite wrestler is on Dynamite tonight but they're not wrestling so I'll give it a miss".
> 
> AEW lost this one, it's okay to accept it, jump back up on the horse and hope it does better next week...


You've been present in this topic every time ratings have been released since war began - what have you learnt?? Wood says aew needs competition but ratings shows it does better without. Now you saying talking segments should rate like matches. I don't think you follow closely at all


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> You've been present in this topic every time ratings have been released since war began - what have you learnt?? Wood says aew needs competition but ratings shows it does better without. Now you saying talking segments should rate like matches. I don't think you follow closely at all


I'm saying people like to see their favourites in matches and people like to see their favourites in angles. I don't see a huge difference between Kenny Omega turning up for a 6 minute match with Joey Janela and Kenny Omega talking for a few minutes backstage.

People like to see their favourites full stop. If you have evidence proving me wrong I will gladly admit it and say you're right.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'm saying people like to see their favourites in matches and people like to see their favourites in angles. I don't see a huge difference between Kenny Omega turning up for a 6 minute match with Joey Janela and Kenny Omega talking for a few minutes backstage.
> 
> People like to see their favourites full stop. If you have evidence proving me wrong I will gladly admit it and say you're right.


Week after week highest rating segments are matches


----------



## La Parka

10gizzle said:


> WWE - Founded 1980
> 
> NJPW - Founded 1972
> 
> AEW - Founded 2019
> 
> Bit too early to be making such assertions don't you think?


By this logic, shouldn't TNA be ahead of AEW? shouldn't The Simpsons have destroyed Breaking Bad?

A year in is not too early to make predictions on how popular AEW will be. AEW is doing nothing to bring in the casual fan or even keep the hardcore wrestling fans that aren't into all the goofy shit. 

Obviously AEW can turn things around but I don't see it happening anytime soon and if it does happen it may be too late.


----------



## Erik.

Casual fan this. Casual fan that. 

I have two family members, who are under the term casual fan in the dictionary, who watch AEW regularly. 

Now they're either a rarity on this planet and are the only two casual fans they've enticed. Or no one on this forum actually knows who they're attracting.


----------



## Hitman1987

I think the low ratings are a result of a few things:

1. Poor build going into Full Gear. What’s the point watching weekly if they don’t put the effort in to build towards PPVs. The PPVs then just seem like a series of matches without heat/stakes.

2. Lack of clear Heel/Face dynamics and conflicting characters/storylines meaning people struggle to get invested in characters or storylines as they bounce back and forth. Buck got pillmanised but I didn’t care as he deserved it as he’d been super kicking old people for weeks prior.

3. Bad comedy segments which might seem funny at first but make it hard to take those involved seriously after it. Jericho and MJF dancing 1 week and arguing the next.

4. TK not delivering on promises and fans losing faith in him because of it. Hager vs Mox, FTW title, change the power in wrestling etc

5. Poor booking decisions and lack of ability to make people look good coming out of feuds. Hardy going over Sammy, Natural nightmares going over BBB. Brodie/Archer losing and disappearing. Miro debut, Cage after Mox defeat and the FTW title.

6. Not building the show around your biggest stars every week and instead giving time to people like QT Marshall, dark order jobbers, Janela, Kiss etc just to keep everybody happy.

The main issue I see though is that the show looks like it’s booked by different people with different ideas (Comedy, sports based, flip flop, hardcore) and just feels all over the place at times.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

the overall viewer figure is calculated as a % of the universe of total eyeballs on a night

what am I saying?

0.30 is 750 this wed, but on another wednesday it is 850 or even 900 (they've had 0.30s that was 900) - it is all about the total number of people watching on the night

therefore, they have been very consistent on 0.30 - and when news calms down they'll be up in to top 5 again and 0.30 to 0.32 will be = to 900


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Fallout show highlighted non star talent which saw ratings lower than expected but long-term may be a positive


People don’t always know what is going to happen on a show. If they do, they were led to believe there was a surprise and they’d obviously be hardcore enough to get a kick out of Pentagon and Fenix.



Pippen94 said:


> You've been present in this topic every time ratings have been released since war began - what have you learnt?? **Wood says aew needs competition but ratings shows it does better without. Now you saying talking segments should rate like matches. I don't think you follow closely at all


This is complete bullshit and a blatant misrepresentation of what my point was. You are being slimy on purpose.

The point was that AEW needs to stay on the same night as NXT, because if they move to a Tuesday, for example, they are going to get smashed by that inevitable counter-programming. They need to stay on the same night as NXT to survive.

Of course they do better when they’re unopposed. The expression “no shit” comes to mind. They’re not gojng



La Parka said:


> By this logic, shouldn't TNA be ahead of AEW? shouldn't The Simpsons have destroyed Breaking Bad?
> 
> A year in is not too early to make predictions on how popular AEW will be. AEW is doing nothing to bring in the casual fan or even keep the hardcore wrestling fans that aren't into all the goofy shit.
> 
> Obviously AEW can turn things around but I don't see it happening anytime soon and if it does happen it may be too late.


Yes, but it’s more fun to pretend that 1 year isn’t a LONG-ASS time in TV terms. 



Erik. said:


> Casual fan this. Casual fan that.
> 
> I have two family members, who are under the term casual fan in the dictionary, who watch AEW regularly.
> 
> Now they're either a rarity on this planet and are the only two casual fans they've enticed. Or no one on this forum actually knows who they're attracting.


Rarity on the planet.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Definition of Technician said:


> and so who forced you to continue watching for a year+?
> 😂 😂


Masochistic tendancies?


----------



## Pentagon Senior

This week's rating is very...standard, average, typical. Not great but not horrendous.

The fact it was a fall out show does paint it in a slightly darker light though, to be fair. 

Considering the pandemic I think they've done pretty well to be in this position consistently. However, moving forward into next year, it really would be good to see some growth towards the 1m ball park (and maybe 0.35-0.40 demo).


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Erik. said:


> Casual fan this. Casual fan that.
> 
> I have two family members, who are under the term casual fan in the dictionary, who watch AEW regularly.
> 
> Now they're either a rarity on this planet and are the only two casual fans they've enticed. Or no one on this forum actually knows who they're attracting.


I fall firmly into this category - not watched wrestling regularly for donkeys (got sick of WWE) and AEW is the only thing that got me back. I have a handful of friends in the same boat and I've seen many others on this forum confirm the same.

It's getting less rare by the second....


----------



## DammitChrist

La Parka said:


> The past few months of having long segments dedicated to a boring, unfunny and over the hill Jericho has to have driven away a decent number of fans. Jericho turned MJF from a must see heel to a guy everyone is hoping gets away from Jericho or a guy who would just leave the TV screen WITH Jericho.


I'd say that Chris Jericho has consistently been entertaining in this current angle. MJF becoming more of a goofy loud-mouthed character is most likely HIS own doing.

Anyway, it's looking like Jericho will inevitably turn face soon once MJF gets some of the Inner Circle members to successfully turn on him.

I'm personally looking forward to how they transition Jericho into a fan favorite (officially). He's one of the most entertaining acts on AEW atm


----------



## fabi1982

Pippen94 said:


> Week after week highest rating segments are matches


Ok as far as I remember, it is either the first quarter, which usually does good and it goes downhill and Cody defending each week, or a Mox match. But as I said, just look at Kenny/Penta, two stars, or any other match that doesnt involve either a title on the line or a title holder, or any match involving the tournament, show me the match which had the highest rating of the show?

But in your view you really think a Dynamite with just matches involving Cody, Jericho, Omega, Pac, FTR against anyone who has no title, would draw more than a usual Dynamite, consiser that none of these matches have any kind of storyline.


----------



## 3venflow

DammitChrist said:


> I'm personally looking forward to how they transition Jericho into a fan favorite (officially). He's one of the most entertaining acts on AEW atm


Jericho is pretty much acting 90% babyface now. He's smiling a lot, saying nicer stuff, and showing affinity to MJF. He's coming across as someone who has lost his edge and this should lead to the Inner Circle jumping him like a pack of dogs at some point. Keep him off commentary though, because he's bipolar on there just like Taz (one minute a babyface, one minute a heel).


----------



## Prosper

Early estimates for Full Gear buy rate are around 100K, surprised it didn't do more with the stacked card but this is in line with where they have always been. Seems like this is the center. For year one at least.

Early estimate for AEW Full Gear PPV buys | Wrestling News


----------



## TKO Wrestling

RainmakerV2 said:


> They dont have Balor, Cole or Kross and have to main event guys like Oney lorcan and Breezango and they still come within 100k of them most weeks and beat them every now and then lol.


Imagine Dynamites ratings if they had that WWE logo in the corner. Will take 20 years to neutralize the power of that damn thing.


----------



## rbl85

prosperwithdeen said:


> Early estimates for Full Gear buy rate are around 100K, surprised it didn't do more with the stacked card but this is in line with where they have always been. Seems like this is the center. For year one at least.
> 
> Early estimate for AEW Full Gear PPV buys | Wrestling News


The card was good but except for 2 matches there wasn't any urgency to see the matches.

Only Omega vs Page and the Bucks vs FTR really that big feel and had some suspense.


----------



## 3venflow

ca. 100k is what a lot of us predicted. It's about their average number in the U.S.

Double or Nothing 2019: 109,000-113,000
All Out 2019: 101,000
Full Gear 2019: 90,000-100,000
Revolution 2020: 100,000-105,000
Double or Nothing 2020: 115,000-120,000
All Out 2020: 100,000-110,000


----------



## Ozell Gray

rbl85 said:


> ca. 100k is what a lot of us predicted. It's about their average number in the U.S.
> 
> Double or Nothing 2019: 109,000-113,000
> All Out 2019: 101,000
> Full Gear 2019: 90,000-100,000
> Revolution 2020: 100,000-105,000
> Double or Nothing 2020: 115,000-120,000
> All Out 2020: 100,000-110,000


Thats Not what Meltzer is claiming. He's claiming a 100,000 worldwide. He even says it in the article.

Meltzer wrote, “Domestic buys were lower than those shows but overseas buys were higher, and it should be around 100,000 when all is said and done.“










Early estimate for AEW Full Gear PPV buys


The first details on the buy rate for the latest pay-per-view event presented by AEW, Full Gear, are in. Dave Meltzer reported in the latest edition of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter that the early numbers indicate the show looks to have done about the same as All Out in September and...




wrestlingnews.co






Meltzer has never claimed a 100,000 buys in the U.S. He's always counted overseas buys to inflate the numbers.


----------



## Ozell Gray

As we reported yesterday, the numbers for both AEW Dynamite and NXT went up slightly this week. Dynamite was still ahead with 764,000 viewers and a .30 rating in the key 18-49 demographic, compared to NXT’s 632,000 viewers and .16 rating. The Wrestling Observer Newsletter has a more detailed breakdown of the numbers, although some of the NXT statistics are missing due to it placing outside the Top 50.

Dynamite was #17 for the night and third in non-news shows (news dominated all of the top 15 spots), while NXT placed #56 (#18 among non-news). Among entertainment, Dynamite was only behind two episodes of Real Housewives. It was #7 in Men 18-49 and #1 among non-news, since Real Housewives is female-skewed. It was #20 in 18-34 (#6 among non-news) and #22 in males 12-34. The only sports competition for both was college football on ESPN, which had 722,000 viewers and a 0.18 rating.

Compared to last week, Dynamite was up 6.6% in viewers and 1.6% in the demo, while NXT was up 3.6% and 16%, respectively. Dynamite doubled NXT in women 18-34 and men 35-49. Going by each demo, AEW had 43,000 viewers in men 18-34 (down 23.2%), 56,000 in women 18-34 (down 12.5%), 202,000 in men 35-49 (up 9.8%) and 88,000 in women 35-49 (up 11.4%). NXt had 28,000 in men 18-34 (up 115.4%), 23,000 in women 18-34 (up 53.3%), 95,000 in men 35-49 (up 3.3%) and 64,000 in women 35-49 (up 4.9%).

Here’s a detailed quarter-by-quarter breakdown:

Q1: Taz promo/Brian Cage vs. Matt Sydal – 773,000 viewers, 385,000 in 18-49
Q2: Cody & Brandi Rhodes/Jade Cargill segment – 764,000 viewers (down 9,000), 387,000 in 18-49 (up 2,000)
Q3: The Natural Nightmares vs. The Butcher & The Blade – 816,000 viewers (up 52,000), 398,000 in 18-49 (up 12,000)
Q4: End of Bunkhouse match/Miro & Kip Sabian promo/Start of Inner Circle induction – 870,000 viewers (up 54,000), 430,000 in 18-49 (up 32,000)
Q5: Inner Circle Induction/Young Bucks promo/Scorpio Sky vs. Shawn Spears – 747,000 viewers (down 123,000), 383,000 in 18-49 (down 47,000)
Q6: End of Sky vs. Spears/Kenny Omega promo/Tay Conti vs. Red Velvet – 716,000 viewers (down 31,000), 374,000 in 18-49 (down 9,000)
Q7: End of Conti vs. Velvet/Inner Circle promo/Eddie Kingston promo – 696,000 viewers (down 20,000), 364,000 in 18-49 (down 10,000)
Q8: Penta El Zero M vs. Rey Fenix/PAC return – 732,000 viewers (up 36,000), 389,000 in 18-49 (up 25,000)

And here’s the breakdown of NXT by quarters:

Q1: Johnny Gargano vs. Leon Ruff – 717,000 viewers, 247,000 in 18-49
Q2: Santos Escobar vs. Jake Atlas – 666,000 viewers (down 51,000), 227,000 in 18-49 (down 20,000)
Q3: End of Escobar vs. Atlas/Shotzi Blackheart promo/Raquel Gonzalez & Boa segment – 680,000 viewers (up 14,000), 239,000 in 18-49 (up 12,000)
Q4: Timothy Thatcher & August Gray & Dexter Lumis segment/Candice LeRae vs. Toni Storm – 609,000 viewers (down 71,000), 199,000 in 18-49 (down 40,000)
Q5: End of LeRae vs. Storm/Dexter Lumis vs. Timothy Thatcher – 641,000 viewers (up 32,000), 213,000 in 18-49 (up 14,000)
Q6: End of Thatcher vs. Lumis/Johnny Gargano & William Regal segment – 617,000 viewers (down 24,000), 197,000 in 18-49 (down 16,000)
Q7: Tommaso Ciampa promo/Rhea Ripley & Io Shirai video/Pat McAfee promo – 571,000 viewers (down 46,000), 183,000 in 18-49 (down 14,000)
Q8: Oney Lorcan & Danny Burch vs. Breezango – 555,000 viewers (down 16,000), 173,000 in 18-49 (down 10,000)

AEW had a 0.11 in 12-17, 0.14 in 18-34 (down 17.5%), 0.46 in 35-49 (up 10.3%) and 0.27 in 50+ (down 6.9%). The audience was 63% male in 18-49 and 53.2% male in 12-34. NXT was up 82.1% in 18-34 and 3.9% in 35-49. NXT did 58.6% men in 18-49.










411MANIA | Ratings Breakdown For This Week’s AEW Dynamite and NXT


A detailed ratings breakdown for this brand new week's episodes of AEW Dynamite on TNT and WWE NXT on the USA Network....




411mania.com


----------



## 3venflow

Ozell Gray said:


> Thats Not what Meltzer is claiming. He's claiming a 100,000 worldwide. He even says it in the article.
> 
> Meltzer wrote, “Domestic buys were lower than those shows but overseas buys were higher, and it should be around 100,000 when all is said and done.“
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Early estimate for AEW Full Gear PPV buys
> 
> 
> The first details on the buy rate for the latest pay-per-view event presented by AEW, Full Gear, are in. Dave Meltzer reported in the latest edition of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter that the early numbers indicate the show looks to have done about the same as All Out in September and...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wrestlingnews.co
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meltzer has never claimed a 100,000 buys in the U.S. He's always counted overseas buys to inflate the numbers.


I just took my figures from Wikipedia and assumed they are U.S. only, but they could be worldwide too. It just says 'Buy rate' without specifying.


----------



## ProjectGargano

QT draws, that is the prove 😂


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The Butcher is a legitimate draw among the AEW fanbase.


----------



## Alright_Mate

You can easily say this person draws, blah, blah, blah.

However I think it’s pretty clear there’s a particularly trend happening here, anytime we see a type of hardcore match it usually produces good numbers.

Young Bucks vs Butcher & Blade
Santana & Ortiz vs Best Friends
Natural Nightmares vs Butcher & Blade

Viewers seem to crave these types of matches, probably because it’s very Attitude Era ish.


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> I fall firmly into this category - not watched wrestling regularly for donkeys (got sick of WWE) and AEW is the only thing that got me back. I have a handful of friends in the same boat and I've seen many others on this forum confirm the same.
> 
> It's getting less rare by the second....


What possibly draws you to this product that didn’t repel you from 2005 WWE? 



3venflow said:


> I just took my figures from Wikipedia and assumed they are U.S. only, but they could be worldwide too. It just says 'Buy rate' without specifying.


This is why Dave’s PPV numbers are toxic.


----------



## 10gizzle

La Parka said:


> By this logic, shouldn't TNA be ahead of AEW? shouldn't The Simpsons have destroyed Breaking Bad?
> 
> A year in is not too early to make predictions on how popular AEW will be. AEW is doing nothing to bring in the casual fan or even keep the hardcore wrestling fans that aren't into all the goofy shit.
> 
> Obviously AEW can turn things around but I don't see it happening anytime soon and if it does happen it may be too late.


I absolutely would say it is too early to make a prediction like "they'll never rise above their current station" or they won't surpass NJPW. Can you predict the future?

How can you or anyone else make a prediction that actually has any factual merit? What evidence do you have? Historical examples?

What metrics are we using to base it on? How much you like the show? Booking decisions? Ratings? 

I hate to even sound like a staunch defender of AEW because I really don't care enough to be a mindless supporter of anything but we also gotta be able to assess things based on measurable elements rather than just generalized statements with no backing.


----------



## Shock Street

La Parka said:


> Obviously AEW can turn things around but I don't see it happening anytime soon and if it does happen it may be too late.


Man I even like most (fuck the Young Bucks) of the show and the goofy shit and I agree, they're clearly averaging out at about 750k and that isn't going to change unless they actually do something *significant* about the content. It's inconsistent, people get dropped for weeks at a time, and story is often told through implication and social media (or the worst offender, references). Full Gear SHOULD HAVE made a difference, they had two new champions and a surprise for the next episode was announced... but no, it was just the usual suspects watching TV by appointment.

At this point if they're bringing Sting in, they should just change the name of the program. I'm not even close to fucking around. "New wrestling show starring Sting" would at least be a chance at grabbing another bundle of people who don't pay enough attention.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> What possibly draws you to this product that didn’t repel you from 2005 WWE?


Jeez Wood I can't remember what I was doing in 2005 let alone what WWE was up to... 

What turned me off WWE includes - but is not constrained to - scripted promo's, seeing the same wrestlers do the same matches into infinity, repetetive long winded talking segments e.g. The New Day doing the same 15 minute 'comedy' routines each week...I could go on. The brand split that they kept shitting on by changing the rules randomly was a mind fk too. 

I don't get bored of seeing the same long winded stuff every week with AEW. I like the variety of styles and am more invested in the characters - partly because I haven't seen them do the exact same thing for months on end. 

The people I speak to who have come back to wrestling because of AEW have similar views. 

But...if you like WWE just as much, or more, that is fine too. Each to their own I guess?


----------



## 10gizzle

Pentagon Senior said:


> Jeez Wood I can't remember what I was doing in 2005 let alone what WWE was up to...
> 
> What turned me off WWE includes - but is not constrained to - scripted promo's, seeing the same wrestlers do the same matches into infinity, repetetive long winded talking segments e.g. The New Day doing the same 15 minute 'comedy' routines each week...I could go on. The brand split that they kept shitting on by changing the rules randomly was a mind fk too.
> 
> I don't get bored of seeing the same long winded stuff every week with AEW. I like the variety of styles and am more invested in the characters - partly because I haven't seen them do the exact same thing for months on end.
> 
> The people I speak to who have come back to wrestling because of AEW have similar views.
> 
> But...if you like WWE just as much, or more, that is fine too. Each to their own I guess?


That's an easy answer. 

Me in high school gave two shits about wrestling as there were a lot of other, far more engaging things going on in life. 

On top of that, older me has an appreciation for startups that achieve some initial success and have an opportunity to disrupt their industry. Especially in industries that have complete monopolies.

The funniest part - is that Monday Night Raw was literally conceived to be a very rough around the edges, gritty show with a different type of presentation. Bruce Pritchard goes Ito some detail about it on his podcast with Conrad.

That's the vibe I'm getting. Even in the shitty moments, I have an appreciation for the fact that they're doing this pretty much on the fly and learning as they go. I loved this when starting the businesses I have in life or working on startups, as I am right now.

People who expect greatness from a roster of people who have basically never been on TV or any major media stage just suck at setting expectations in life and that leads to an entire swath of the internet being predictably reactionary and either shouting the same opinion over and over again or questioning how its possible for someone to think otherwise.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Ozell Gray said:


> Thats Not what Meltzer is claiming. He's claiming a 100,000 worldwide. He even says it in the article.
> 
> Meltzer wrote, “Domestic buys were lower than those shows but overseas buys were higher, and it should be around 100,000 when all is said and done.“
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Early estimate for AEW Full Gear PPV buys
> 
> 
> The first details on the buy rate for the latest pay-per-view event presented by AEW, Full Gear, are in. Dave Meltzer reported in the latest edition of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter that the early numbers indicate the show looks to have done about the same as All Out in September and...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wrestlingnews.co
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meltzer has never claimed a 100,000 buys in the U.S. He's always counted overseas buys to inflate the numbers.



Yeah, there is no way AEW is doing over 100k PPV's in USA with the current pricing and a dying model. Boxing PPV's usually do less than that now unless its a big fight. I'd be surprised if its over 50K.

When it comes to AEW, Meltzer only talks about worldwide which includes the much cheaper option to buy and therefore puts them in 100k. But the revenue from event would be much less than if it was 100K in USA paying $50 a pop.


----------



## Prosper

The PPV buys Meltzer talks about are from PPV, BR Live and FITE TV, so it’s both U.S and wherever FITE is available in Europe. I’m guessing 70K is probably U.S and the rest in the UK. Everyone else just streams illegally, downloads after, or watches the replays that are broken up and posted online through sites like Dailymotion and M4Upload.

Sucks for wrestling promoters and Hollywood execs because no one can control it.


----------



## rbl85

prosperwithdeen said:


> The PPV buys Meltzer talks about are from PPV, BR Live and FITE TV, so it’s both U.S and wherever FITE is available in Europe. I’m guessing 70K is probably U.S and the rest in the UK. Everyone else just streams illegally, downloads after, or watches the replays that are broken up and posted online through sites like Dailymotion and M4Upload.
> 
> Sucks for wrestling promoters and Hollywood execs because no one can control it.


I wonder how Meltzer have the numbers for Fite TV when Fite Tv clearly said that they never give their PPV buys.

I think Meltzer was just told "down in the US and up in the rest of the world".


----------



## Ozell Gray

Dark Emperor said:


> Yeah, there is no way AEW is doing over 100k PPV's in USA with the current pricing and a dying model. Boxing PPV's usually do less than that now unless its a big fight. I'd be surprised if its over 50K.
> 
> When it comes to AEW, Meltzer only talks about worldwide which includes the much cheaper option to buy and therefore puts them in 100k. But the revenue from event would be much less than if it was 100K in USA paying $50 a pop.


Yeah he counts worldwide numbers not just the U.S to so he can claim they got 100,000 buys for their PPVs. If you take out the worldwide numbers then AEW would be doing 20,000 buys per PPV especially since Meltzer has already admitted before that most of AEW's PPV buys is from worldwide not the U.S.




prosperwithdeen said:


> The PPV buys Meltzer talks about are from PPV, BR Live and FITE TV, so it’s both U.S and wherever FITE is available in Europe. I’m guessing 70K is probably U.S and the rest in the UK. Everyone else just streams illegally, downloads after, or watches the replays that are broken up and posted online through sites like Dailymotion and M4Upload.
> 
> Sucks for wrestling promoters and Hollywood execs because no one can control it.


There's no way they got anywhere close to 70k U.S PPV buys, especially since Meltzer has said in the past that most of the buys come from overseas meaning worldwide not the U.S. He's counting the worldwide numbers to inflate the buys when he used to only count domestic buys for WWE, WCW, and TNA but now he's counting worldwide numbers for AEW to prop them up.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

No way Dave has Fite’s numbers


----------



## .christopher.

10gizzle said:


> Any wrestling promotion in history would gladly trade their worst, if not even most of their average and better calendar years for the year AEW just had.
> 
> Half of their existence has taken place with no fans and they're still being talked about pretty much everywhere, constantly trending #1 in various outlets.
> 
> The simple fact that hating AEW is as enjoyable and loving it is a testament to what its actually accomplished IMO.
> 
> A quote that comes to mind...
> 
> "That's like a 40-degree day. Ain't nobody got nothing to say about a 40-degree day. Fifty. Bring a smile to your face. Sixty, shit, n**** is damn near barbecuing on that motherfucker. Go down to 20, n* get their bitch on. Get their blood complaining. But forty? Nobody give a f** about 40. Nobody remember 40"
> 
> - Stringer Bell (The Wire)


Spoken like a true mark.

When you grow up, or take the blinkers off, come back to me.


The Definition of Technician said:


> and so who forced you to continue watching for a year+?
> 😂 😂


I don't watch AEW. I stopped after the 1st show because it was apparent what this company was, and it wasn't wrestling. In fact I don't watch any wrestling promotion right now.


----------



## 10gizzle

.christopher. said:


> Spoken like a true mark.
> 
> When you grow up, or take the blinkers off, come back to me.
> 
> I don't watch AEW. I stopped after the 1st show because it was apparent what this company was, and it wasn't wrestling. In fact I don't watch any wrestling promotion right now.


Care to elaborate?

Can you even define what mark means because it seems to be thrown around by everyone when they can't flesh out coherent thoughts like a sensible person.

I've been away from wrestling for the last 18 year actually growing up and building a life for myself.

If you're to tell me that my lack of your shared perspective on the professional wrestling world means I need to grow up - you should rearrange your priorities in life kid.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pentagon Senior said:


> I fall firmly into this category - not watched wrestling regularly for donkeys (got sick of WWE) and AEW is the only thing that got me back. I have a handful of friends in the same boat and I've seen many others on this forum confirm the same.
> 
> It's getting less rare by the second....


Hmm so let me get this straight. All these casual fans love AEW despite it being filled with inside references, an expectation you watch their mark out show and is aimed at the hardcore fan?

And instead of ratings going up which is what traditionally occurs they're going down?

Interesting


----------



## 10gizzle

Chip Chipperson said:


> Hmm so let me get this straight. All these casual fans love AEW despite it being filled with inside references, an expectation you watch their mark out show and is aimed at the hardcore fan?
> 
> And instead of ratings going up which is what traditionally occurs they're going down?
> 
> Interesting


I haven't watched a single episode on "tv". 

How many more could there be like me?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

10gizzle said:


> I haven't watched a single episode on "tv".
> 
> How many more could there be like me?


So the casual fans are magically coming across AEW and signing up to Fite TV or finding another stream for it.

They certainly are dedicated for casuals


----------



## 10gizzle

Chip Chipperson said:


> So the casual fans are magically coming across AEW and signing up to Fite TV or finding another stream for it.
> 
> They certainly are dedicated for casuals


I don't pretend to know things I can't prove. You may be right, but just an example myself, I don't fall into a single one of your stereotypes for these AEW fans.

Like you, I also really dug NWA. Big fan of Cornette's podcast. Not a hardcore fan by any stretch of the imagination. But the last time I watched wrestling was in 2002 getting stoned and watching ROH matches before checking out for 2 decades.

Also - tell me, do these statistics about ratings you bring up also bake in the millions and millions cutting the cord every year? Does it include everyone who streams it illegally? 

Let me ask you, just for shits and giggle, if tomorrow you found out 700,000 people in the USA stream Dynamite illegally, what becomes of the ratings argument?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

10gizzle said:


> I don't pretend to know things I can't prove. You may be right, but just an example myself, I don't fall into a single one of your stereotypes for these AEW fans.
> 
> Like you, I also really dug NWA. Big fan of Cornette's podcast. Not a hardcore fan by any stretch of the imagination. But the last time I watched wrestling was in 2002 getting stoned and watching ROH matches before checking out for 2 decades.
> 
> Also - tell me, do these statistics about ratings you bring up also bake in the millions and millions cutting the cord every year? Does it include everyone who streams it illegally?
> 
> Let me ask you, just for shits and giggle, if tomorrow you found out 700,000 people in the USA stream Dynamite illegally, what becomes of the ratings argument?


Legitimate data proving 700k more? I'd call it 1.4 million for AEW. Duh.

I'm one of the first who told people here not to invest too much into either promotion's ratings because of streaming


----------



## 10gizzle

Chip Chipperson said:


> Legitimate data proving 700k more? I'd call it 1.4 million for AEW. Duh.
> 
> I'm one of the first who told people here not to invest too much into either promotion's ratings because of streaming


I know that. You're a smart dude.

I just don't get why you keep bringing up the same points over and over again when you clearly have way more to offer to these discussions. Your stances are well known and acknowledged.

Do you like getting a reaction out of the die hards? Is it just cause you're so passionate about wrestling that some of the shit AEW does triggers you as someone who's bee in the business?

I'm not trying to be snide I'm genuinely curious.

For someone who is so capable of sharing his thoughts eloquently, you keep coming back to the same things (hardcore marks, TK is incompetent, lost half their viewers).


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Chip Chipperson said:


> Hmm so let me get this straight. All these casual fans love AEW despite it being filled with inside references, an expectation you watch their mark out show and is aimed at the hardcore fan?
> 
> And instead of ratings going up which is what traditionally occurs they're going down?
> 
> Interesting


Eh? All I said was I'm a lapsed/casual fan who's now watching wrestling again purely because of AEW, as are other people I'm aware of. I like a lot of the inside references, in the age of communication and the Internet you pick up what's going on via osmosis (I don't even watch BTE although I like the concept). And it can be fun that way, compared with WWE's constant spamming of same matches and segments into infinity.

Why does it bother you so bad that other people like AEW? Must everyone see things the way you do?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

10gizzle said:


> I know that. You're a smart dude.
> 
> I just don't get why you keep bringing up the same points over and over again when you clearly have way more to offer to these discussions. Your stances are well known and acknowledged.
> 
> Do you like getting a reaction out of the die hards? Is it just cause you're so passionate about wrestling that some of the shit AEW does triggers you as someone who's bee in the business?
> 
> I'm not trying to be snide I'm genuinely curious.
> 
> For someone who is so capable of sharing his thoughts eloquently, you keep coming back to the same things (hardcore marks, TK is incompetent, lost half their viewers).


Bring up the same points because that's what I dislike about AEW. People incorrectly label me a hater or whatever but I actually like AEW (At times) and want it to succeed (Always)

I don't say or do anything for a reaction from the diehards as a matter of fact the diehards annoy me hence why I debate with them. I've mentioned before on here that I am very very passionate about the wrestling industry so yeah, AEW does trigger me a lot especially when they could offer the kick ass perfect show considering the budget they have.

I appreciate the eloquent comment, it's a nice compliment. I've made efforts in the past to be much more constructive and use my real life experience as a booker and 9 times out of 10 it gets shit on so I've stopped that and just bluntly give my views now.



Pentagon Senior said:


> Why does it bother you so bad that other people like AEW? Must everyone see things the way you do?


Brother, with all due respect you're on a forum where people love AEW so much that they block and call for people to be banned who see things differently to them. I'm far from the one who can't handle a different opinion, lol


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Chip Chipperson said:


> Brother, with all due respect you're on a forum where people love AEW so much that they block and call for people to be banned who see things differently to them. I'm far from the one who can't handle a different opinion, lol


Your post count dwarfs that of any of those folks - the people you like to refer to as 'super fans' (think about that for a moment). For some reason you feel the need to repeat your opinion into oblivion as if it's worth more than others. It seems to pain you that there are lapsed fans who came back for AEW and like the show - essentially that people like a TV show that you don't like - which is bizarre.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Imagine what the ratings would be if over the next eight weeks, every week featured all of the stars and it was clear who the show was about: Mox, PAC, Omega, Jericho, Miro, Cody, Shida, Baker, Allin, Fenix, Penta, Cage and Starks (he is the best young signing they have made). Imagine if they pulled back on the length of matches and got a match or segment for everyone in, and imagine if they made some more main event signings. They have the talent for better ratings, but they are not featuring them every week.

They have this FTW title and it still doesn't make sense what is different about it. The show is much greater need of a welterweight or flightweight (original branding) world title for guys like Allin, Starks and OC to have matches every week. Part of the thrill of Nitro was that you were always guaranteed a cruiserweight match with guys like Eddie, Jericho, Benoit, Dean, Rey, Kidman and Ultimo Dragon.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pentagon Senior said:


> Your post count dwarfs that of any of those folks - the people you like to refer to as 'super fans' (think about that for a moment). For some reason you feel the need to repeat your opinion into oblivion as if it's worth more than others. It seems to pain you that there are lapsed fans who came back for AEW and like the show - essentially that people like a TV show that you don't like - which is bizarre.


I'm not interested in going further off topic brutha.


----------



## MoxAsylum

prosperwithdeen said:


> Hmm looks like that stretch of bad Jericho centered episodes did turn some cable viewers away. Last week and this week was good quality wise IMO so continue stringing together good shows consistently and they’ll be back where they wanna be. You never know with the cable audience, it’s way up one week then way down 2 weeks later, then back up again.


It's more than just that, all the geeks they push like Sonny, Nyla, OC. All the geeks they put on TV like Marko. There are really no storylines in AEW and it's hard to tell who's face and who's heel


----------



## Prosper

MoxAsylum said:


> It's more than just that, all the geeks they push like Sonny, Nyla, OC. All the geeks they put on TV like Marko. There are really no storylines in AEW and it's hard to tell who's face and who's heel


I don't know about that man.

Marko - Not being pushed, barely on TV, his 10 seconds of TV time every 5 weeks won't make a difference 

Nyla - Nothing wrong with Nyla Rose, she's a good competitor just booked terribly 

Sonny - Not being pushed, he/she is on TV once a month, if that, and he/she just comes in to lose 

OC - You and I are not fans of OC but hundreds of thousands of people are. The guy is loved whether you want to admit it or not and his segments have gotten some of the highest ratings on Dynamite, so no it's not his fault either 

Heel/Face dynamic - I half agree with this. You know who's heel and face. The only ones that are all over the place are the Young Bucks, everyone else is clear as day. AEW do have way too many heels though and they need to balance it out. Again, I don't think this really makes a difference in whether people watch or not, but can be confusing for some people, I don't know why that would make them tune out though that would just be sad

Jericho on the other hand has had 10-20 minutes of TV time almost every week and in the last couple months has had multiple episodes dedicated to him and his comedy, so I would say at least 75% of the reason why cable viewers have skipped some shows is because they don't find his stuff as funny as AEW wants them to find it.


----------



## fabi1982

prosperwithdeen said:


> OC - You and I are not fans of OC but *hundreds of thousands of people are*. The guy is loved whether you want to admit it or not and his segments have gotten some of the highest ratings on Dynamite, so no it's not his fault either


It is so easy to make your not so wrong opinion really overhyped. He has barely 200k Instagram follower and just above 100k Twitter follower. Of course the bare minimum for 100s of 1000s is 200k, but c‘mon. Even you know this was a little too much


----------



## Buhalovski

LOL, the only people who know about the existing of pockets are the hardcore wrestling fans.


----------



## DammitChrist

It’s pretty obvious that Orange Cassidy is still really over and popular with the AEW crowds/audience tbh.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

DammitChrist said:


> It’s pretty obvious that Orange Cassidy is still really over and popular with the AEW crowds/audience tbh.


800k next week as oc been advertised IMO


----------



## rbl85

prosperwithdeen said:


> I don't know about that man.
> 
> Marko - Not being pushed, barely on TV, his 10 seconds of TV time every 5 weeks won't make a difference
> 
> Nyla - Nothing wrong with Nyla Rose, she's a good competitor just booked terribly
> 
> Sonny - Not being pushed, he/she is on TV once a month, if that, and he/she just comes in to lose
> 
> OC - You and I are not fans of OC but hundreds of thousands of people are. The guy is loved whether you want to admit it or not and his segments have gotten some of the highest ratings on Dynamite, so no it's not his fault either
> 
> Heel/Face dynamic - I half agree with this. You know who's heel and face. The only ones that are all over the place are the Young Bucks, everyone else is clear as day. AEW do have way too many heels though and they need to balance it out. Again, I don't think this really makes a difference in whether people watch or not, but can be confusing for some people, I don't know why that would make them tune out though that would just be sad
> 
> Jericho on the other hand has had 10-20 minutes of TV time almost every week and in the last couple months has had multiple episodes dedicated to him and his comedy, so I would say at least 75% of the reason why cable viewers have skipped some shows is because *they don't find his stuff as funny as AEW wants them to find it*.


I don't think they don't find it funny but i think they want something else from Jericho


----------



## Prosper

fabi1982 said:


> It is so easy to make your not so wrong opinion really overhyped. He has barely 200k Instagram follower and just above 100k Twitter follower. Of course the bare minimum for 100s of 1000s is 200k, but c‘mon. Even you know this was a little too much





Tsvetoslava said:


> LOL, the only people who know about the existing of pockets are the hardcore wrestling fans.


I don't know guys these videos say otherwise. I wouldn't go as far as saying he has millions of fans, but it's very safe to say he's in the hundreds of thousands going into the low millions. Everyone doesn't use IG or follow everyone but Youtube is used by damn near everyone. 22 million views for the video with the OC kid and 11 million for the PAC video. 7 million for the Anniversary one. There are also others. Thats a fuckton of views and is more than most of the top stars in WWE so I'm pretty sure he's not the reason for the lower cable ratings the last couple months.



















rbl85 said:


> I don't think they don't find it funny but i think they want something else from Jericho


I want the guy to take a break and just turn babyface already.


----------



## 10gizzle

Chip Chipperson said:


> Bring up the same points because that's what I dislike about AEW. People incorrectly label me a hater or whatever but I actually like AEW (At times) and want it to succeed (Always)
> 
> I don't say or do anything for a reaction from the diehards as a matter of fact the diehards annoy me hence why I debate with them. I've mentioned before on here that I am very very passionate about the wrestling industry so yeah, AEW does trigger me a lot especially when they could offer the kick ass perfect show considering the budget they have.
> 
> I appreciate the eloquent comment, it's a nice compliment. I've made efforts in the past to be much more constructive and use my real life experience as a booker and 9 times out of 10 it gets shit on so I've stopped that and just bluntly give my views now.
> 
> Brother, with all due respect you're on a forum where people love AEW so much that they block and call for people to be banned who see things differently to them. I'm far from the one who can't handle a different opinion, lol


I appreciate you taking the time to write this out.

I've been on forums for 20 years so I know the type of trash that exists. I've learned to ignore it completely and focus on having discussions with people who actually care to engage.

I guess I just don't get all the petty nonsense. 

90% of the arguments people use on the board could get destroyed by anyone who cares enough to take the time. Some of yours included.

I just wish this place could get good enough to the point where someone at AEW might actually read it and take it to mind without seeing it occupied by a bunch of lowlives engaging in flame wars without end.


----------



## The Wood

What people don't realise about YouTube and Twitter as metrics is that people consuming that don't necessarily _like_ what they're seeing. It can be people sharing it saying "Can you believe we used to like this shit?" It's the same with TV ratings, really. Too many people look at the number and don't contextualise what that number means. It's better to have a bad show exposed to far less people. High viewership is not synonymous with making a good impression.


----------



## thorn123

I am not a fan of OC, but if he brings in viewers, I am happy him being on the show. Give me more of Wardlow, Cage, Hager, Archer, Lee and Luchasauras. Let the big boys loose.


----------



## The Wood

The thing is he's not actually making fans of AEW. If they're just tuning in for his segments (doubtful) then it's not like it's converting to PPV buys or long-term fans. You're also trading off those 100k people or whatever (again, doubtful) for the wrestling fans who aren't going to go for the challenge to the genre.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Pentagon Senior said:


> I fall firmly into this category - not watched wrestling regularly for donkeys (got sick of WWE) and AEW is the only thing that got me back. I have a handful of friends in the same boat and I've seen many others on this forum confirm the same.
> 
> It's getting less rare by the second....


People who post on internet forums to discuss wrestling are not casual fans. Its so ridiculous seeing people post this repeatedly.

No one here is a casual. Casuals are people you actually have to put an effort in getting to watch, not a bunch of folks who watch every week and defend everything they watch on the internet.


----------



## NathanMayberry

prosperwithdeen said:


> I don't know about that man.
> 
> Marko - Not being pushed, barely on TV, his 10 seconds of TV time every 5 weeks won't make a difference
> 
> Nyla - Nothing wrong with Nyla Rose, she's a good competitor just booked terribly
> 
> Sonny - Not being pushed, he/she is on TV once a month, if that, and he/she just comes in to lose
> 
> OC - You and I are not fans of OC but hundreds of thousands of people are. The guy is loved whether you want to admit it or not and his segments have gotten some of the highest ratings on Dynamite, so no it's not his fault either
> 
> Heel/Face dynamic - I half agree with this. You know who's heel and face. The only ones that are all over the place are the Young Bucks, everyone else is clear as day. AEW do have way too many heels though and they need to balance it out. Again, I don't think this really makes a difference in whether people watch or not, but can be confusing for some people, I don't know why that would make them tune out though that would just be sad
> 
> Jericho on the other hand has had 10-20 minutes of TV time almost every week and in the last couple months has had multiple episodes dedicated to him and his comedy, so I would say at least 75% of the reason why cable viewers have skipped some shows is because they don't find his stuff as funny as AEW wants them to find it.


Only Tony Khan can so vehemently defend the decision to put thee clowns on TV repeatedly. They all suck and area huge part of the reason AEW's viewership is so sad...


----------



## Chip Chipperson

NathanMayberry said:


> People who post on internet forums to discuss wrestling are not casual fans. Its so ridiculous seeing people post this repeatedly.
> 
> No one here is a casual. Casuals are people you actually have to put an effort in getting to watch, not a bunch of folks who watch every week and defend everything they watch on the internet.


I met a casual fan "in the wild" last year. The gardener at my work who I never really had any deep conversations with happened to ask me what I was doing that weekend, I had a show that weekend and mentioned it to him and he's like "Ohhh like WWE or olympic wrestling?"

Anyway, his story was that for 25 years (Since 1995) he had been watching just the WWE because his grandson liked it, his grandson moved on from wrestling but he enjoyed it and his favourite thing to do every Friday was go home early from work, make some food, watch RAW and Smackdown for a few hours and then that would be it until next week. He was from England so he was much more passionate about Football (Soccer) and was a mad Everton fan but something else that he just liked was wrestling.

He was a total casual, he once mentioned The Shield and said "Don't know what happened to Ambrose though" and I said to him "He wrestles for AEW now. They're a new league" and he gave me a nod but didn't seem to care about AEW very much. Just loved RAW and Smackdown and openly told me that. He knew every WWE wrestler over the past 25 years 

Anyway, the reason I bring old mate up is that he's who I view as a casual. He's happy to watch every week but he doesn't go online looking up news or care about backstage politics. Just likes it for what it is and enjoys it, he never even really asked how it all works despite me being involved in it because he didn't care.

AEW need to find ways to attract guys like him but admittedly it is very hard. He didn't even seem open to talking about AEW let alone possibly tuning in.


----------



## KingofKings1524

Did the mods actually get rid of the “AEW bad” guy? His trolling wasn't anywhere near as nuanced as a few posters around here, but he was fun at least. Way to get rid of one of the only remaining entertaining things about this section, guys.


----------



## The Wood

The backstage stuff can get so dense and it's quite off-putting and demanding. You're going to draw people to baseball well before you draw them to inside baseball.


----------



## 10gizzle

Chip Chipperson said:


> I met a casual fan "in the wild" last year. The gardener at my work who I never really had any deep conversations with happened to ask me what I was doing that weekend, I had a show that weekend and mentioned it to him and he's like "Ohhh like WWE or olympic wrestling?"
> 
> Anyway, his story was that for 25 years (Since 1995) he had been watching just the WWE because his grandson liked it, his grandson moved on from wrestling but he enjoyed it and his favourite thing to do every Friday was go home early from work, make some food, watch RAW and Smackdown for a few hours and then that would be it until next week. He was from England so he was much more passionate about Football (Soccer) and was a mad Everton fan but something else that he just liked was wrestling.
> 
> He was a total casual, he once mentioned The Shield and said "Don't know what happened to Ambrose though" and I said to him "He wrestles for AEW now. They're a new league" and he gave me a nod but didn't seem to care about AEW very much. Just loved RAW and Smackdown and openly told me that. He knew every WWE wrestler over the past 25 years
> 
> Anyway, the reason I bring old mate up is that he's who I view as a casual. He's happy to watch every week but he doesn't go online looking up news or care about backstage politics. Just likes it for what it is and enjoys it, he never even really asked how it all works despite me being involved in it because he didn't care.
> 
> AEW need to find ways to attract guys like him but admittedly it is very hard. He didn't even seem open to talking about AEW let alone possibly tuning in.


I almost wish you made this up because its some beautiful shit.

People have a hard time relating to something new - especially if what they know may be tied to nostalgia, or in this case, love. (his connection to his grandson through WWE). AEW could never replace that for him. Even if AEW was better in every single way.

There is absolutely no replacement for the nostalgia that exists with WWE. Never will be.


----------



## The Wood

I wonder how much the average fan actually separates the idea of "wrestling" in their minds? When Mike Tyson appeared on AEW, I think some outlets even reported it as being in the WWE, because they're the wrestling, right? I only bring that up because I think hardcore fans sometimes project a partisanship onto the general audience, where we will assume they are "WWE fans" or "AEW fans." A lot of them probably don't put up those arbitrary blocks on themselves.

I caught myself doing it when it came to AEW and WrestleMania week. I found myself thinking that NXT might get a boost because it's Mania week, but then I realised that _all_ wrestling is likely to benefit from WrestleMania. 

When it comes to monetising nostalgia, I don't think the company with the history has exclusive rights on that. A BIG part of AEW's early appeal was that it was going to be authentic pro-wrestling. You know -- promos, feuds, blood, good booking. And on TNT. So much of the early wave was WCW nostalgia. Yeah, the WWE have the trademarks and the actual technical history and the tape libraries, but wrestling history and the hearts of fans doesn't belong exclusively to them.

I feel like AEW have been ineffective at really connecting those lingering desires of fans and lapsed fans, and really delivering that experience that feels like the thing people fell in love with, at least for a while.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

NathanMayberry said:


> People who post on internet forums to discuss wrestling are not casual fans. Its so ridiculous seeing people post this repeatedly.
> 
> No one here is a casual. Casuals are people you actually have to put an effort in getting to watch, not a bunch of folks who watch every week and defend everything they watch on the internet.


I've made 50 posts since AEW's inception - I'm mainly here to keep abreast of what's going on from each episode because I miss content sometimes. I don't even watch Dynamite religiously (see most but often miss an episode), I've never watched live, and missed a couple ppv's. Never watch BTE. Before AEW I hadn't watched wrestling for many years and I don't watch any promotion outside AEW. 

Yeah I'm such a hardcore fan lol

It's 2020 - the Internet is quite popular these days by the way! It's ridiculous to think that type of casual fan, who has never even bothered to google the wrestling show they enjoyed watching, even exists in today's culture.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Chip Chipperson said:


> I met a casual fan "in the wild" last year. The gardener at my work who I never really had any deep conversations with happened to ask me what I was doing that weekend, I had a show that weekend and mentioned it to him and he's like "Ohhh like WWE or olympic wrestling?"
> 
> Anyway, his story was that for 25 years (Since 1995) he had been watching just the WWE because his grandson liked it, his grandson moved on from wrestling but he enjoyed it and his favourite thing to do every Friday was go home early from work, make some food, watch RAW and Smackdown for a few hours and then that would be it until next week. He was from England so he was much more passionate about Football (Soccer) and was a mad Everton fan but something else that he just liked was wrestling.
> 
> He was a total casual, he once mentioned The Shield and said "Don't know what happened to Ambrose though" and I said to him "He wrestles for AEW now. They're a new league" and he gave me a nod but didn't seem to care about AEW very much. Just loved RAW and Smackdown and openly told me that. He knew every WWE wrestler over the past 25 years
> 
> Anyway, the reason I bring old mate up is that he's who I view as a casual. He's happy to watch every week but he doesn't go online looking up news or care about backstage politics. Just likes it for what it is and enjoys it, he never even really asked how it all works despite me being involved in it because he didn't care.
> 
> AEW need to find ways to attract guys like him but admittedly it is very hard. He didn't even seem open to talking about AEW let alone possibly tuning in.


How specific are the attributes of this mythical casual fan? And how many of them are there in 2020 that would NEVER go on the internet or maybe enter a wrestling forum?

A casual fan today will not look like a casual fan from the past. I think you're dreaming to think there's a load of people out there to be encouraged to watch Dynamite but will never venture deeper if they enjoyed the product.

If the guy in your example knows every WWE wrestler of the last 25 years he's more clued up than I am. People will be 'casual' in different ways.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

10gizzle said:


> I almost wish you made this up because its some beautiful shit.
> 
> People have a hard time relating to something new - especially if what they know may be tied to nostalgia, or in this case, love. (his connection to his grandson through WWE). AEW could never replace that for him. Even if AEW was better in every single way.
> 
> There is absolutely no replacement for the nostalgia that exists with WWE. Never will be.


Never thought about it that way actually but it makes total sense. WWE is his thing and has a lot of nostalgia for him so of course he never misses it. Plus, even without his grandson (Who would be twenties or thirties) he's got that routine of going home early on a Friday and watching it.



Pentagon Senior said:


> How specific are the attributes of this mythical casual fan? And how many of them are there in 2020 that would NEVER go on the internet or maybe enter a wrestling forum?
> 
> A casual fan today will not look like a casual fan from the past. I think you're dreaming to think there's a load of people out there to be encouraged to watch Dynamite but will never venture deeper if they enjoyed the product.
> 
> If the guy in your example knows every WWE wrestler of the last 25 years he's more clued up than I am. People will be 'casual' in different ways.


I'm not sure, that's a good point also. Personally I love Rugby League here in Australia but apart from a couple of social media groups I'm in I don't really check forums about it. I get all my news from social media and the pre game shows and that's it.

As a matter of fact the only forums I read apart from this one is Reddit where I don't post only read to kill time at work. I love movies, music, video games etc but have never really visited a forum about them.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'm not sure, that's a good point also. Personally I love Rugby League here in Australia but apart from a couple of social media groups I'm in I don't really check forums about it. I get all my news from social media and the pre game shows and that's it.
> 
> As a matter of fact the only forums I read apart from this one is Reddit where I don't post only read to kill time at work. I love movies, music, video games etc but have never really visited a forum about them.


Yeah the way I see it fans come in all sorts of variations so I don't think we can fit them neatly into either 'hardcore' or 'casual' boxes based solely on any particular factor. I don't think you become a hardcore wrestling fan in 2020 by searching 'AEW wrestling forum' on google and pressing the first link.


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> I've made 50 posts since AEW's inception - I'm mainly here to keep abreast of what's going on from each episode because I miss content sometimes. I don't even watch Dynamite religiously (see most but often miss an episode), I've never watched live, and missed a couple ppv's. Never watch BTE. Before AEW I hadn't watched wrestling for many years and I don't watch any promotion outside AEW.
> 
> Yeah I'm such a hardcore fan lol
> 
> It's 2020 - the Internet is quite popular these days by the way! It's ridiculous to think that type of casual fan, who has never even bothered to google the wrestling show they enjoyed watching, even exists in today's culture.


I used to think this way, but then I took stock of what I actually participate in when it comes to online dialogue. I’ve trialed forums on other subjects, not going to lie, but it’s really just wrestling now. It’s not as common as you’d think to really dive into the lore on something.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> I used to think this way, but then I took stock of what I actually participate in when it comes to online dialogue. I’ve trialed forums on other subjects, not going to lie, but it’s really just wrestling now. It’s not as common as you’d think to really dive into the lore on something.


Different fans will enjoy different elements of their fandom, in different ways. Some will enjoy online discussion moreso than watching the entertainment itself. Others the opposite. There is no exact science or specific attributes to labelling someone a 'hardcore' or 'casual' fan but clearly from my description above I couldn't be more casual regardless of the fact that one day I googled 'AEW wrestling forum, clicked the first link and proceeded to post 50 times in 12 months. I don't know a lot of the lore, for instance, because I don't watch BTE.

I'm a casual wrestling fan who was totally lapsed for years until AEW and there are others like me.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Double post


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> Different fans will enjoy different elements of their fandom, in different ways. Some will enjoy online discussion moreso than watching the entertainment itself. Others the opposite. There is no exact science or specific attributes to labelling someone a 'hardcore' or 'casual' fan but clearly from my description above I couldn't be more casual regardless of the fact that one day I googled 'AEW wrestling forum, clicked the first link and proceeded to post 50 times in 12 months. I don't know a lot of the lore, for instance, because I don't watch BTE.
> 
> I'm a casual wrestling fan who was totally lapsed for years until AEW and there are others like me.


You might count yourself as casual, but you’re not what most people would consider casual.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

D


The Wood said:


> You might count yourself as casual, but you’re not what most people would consider casual.


What else would you call someone who doesn't watch BTE or Dark, sometimes misses Dynamite and has missed ppv's? I watch no wrestling content outside AEW either. 

I'm intruiged to know what this very specific model of a 'casual' wrestling fan looks like and how many of them there are just waiting to be tapped into.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Pentagon Senior said:


> D
> 
> What else would you call someone who doesn't watch BTE or Dark, sometimes misses Dynamite and has missed ppv's? I watch no wrestling content outside AEW either.
> 
> I'm intruiged to know what this very specific model of a 'casual' wrestling fan looks like and how many of them there are just waiting to be tapped into.


This is ChipnWoods forum, check out their ridiculous post counts from this month (and past). Nothing you say, no matter how sensible it is, will be approved by the two. You are a casual fan by every definition except one that really bothers the WWE marks: you don't watch WWE. Because of that, you are deemed useless to them.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

TKO Wrestling said:


> This is ChipnWoods forum, check out their ridiculous post counts from this month (and past). Nothing you say, no matter how sensible it is, will be approved by the two. You are a casual fan by every definition except one that really bothers the WWE marks: you don't watch WWE. Because of that, you are deemed useless to them.


Hmmmm yes I suspected as much. This mythical casual fan archetype they speak of is rarer than bigfoot.


----------



## RapShepard

Pentagon Senior said:


> D
> 
> What else would you call someone who doesn't watch BTE or Dark, sometimes misses Dynamite and has missed ppv's? I watch no wrestling content outside AEW either.
> 
> I'm intruiged to know what this very specific model of a 'casual' wrestling fan looks like and how many of them there are just waiting to be tapped into.


Realistically you can't be all that casual of a wrestling fan if you bother to post on a wrestling forum. You might not be I watch Indy promotions in Norway hardcore, but certainly not really casual. For me I'd say a casual would be somebody who occasionally or frequently watches a show, but isn't necessarily a full on dedicated fan. Like I watch MMA every weekend and discuss it on message boards. I'd say I'm a hardcore MMA fan. But my friend and family group will link for the bigger PPVs and fight night cards. I'd consider them to be casual fans. As they aren't just watching every card. But they will watch if it's big enough and they know a decent amount about the bigger name fighters.


----------



## RiverFenix

I know I beat this like a dead horse, but the major reason why pro-wrestling has a limited fan base is it's a HUGE time "ask". Folks are right that it's nostalgia that keeps the current WWE fan around - it's why it's main demo is 45+, these folks were kids during Hulkamania and late teens-mid 20's during the Attitude Era. WWE saw the demographic writing on the wall and switched to kiddie programming with the idea these fans would be new parents at the time and would watch it with their kids to try and hook the next generation. 

I mean if you've never watched growing up do you really want to commit to 7 hours of television a week for 52 weeks?

Comic books were nerd shit when I was growing up, now everybody and their auntie claim to be big fans. A very small fraction of the GoT viewership read the books. 

When you have one 2.5 hour movie every couple of years or 18 hours of show per "season" it's much easier to catch on and land the non-fan/casual fan. 

I think AEW is making a mistake going down the WWE route with quantity over quality. 2 hours of Dynamite, BTE being somewhat canon, DARK and now another TNT show coming next year. 

One 2 hour weekly show, with an off-season, should be the "ask" to establish the new company. All Out each Labor Day as the "Season Premiere" and have "All In" in late May as the Season Finale. Schedule it like traditional television (in the US).

Given folks a starting and ending point - it's easier than asking them to have to make a lifelong commitment with never ending stories.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

RapShepard said:


> Realistically you can't be all that casual of a wrestling fan if you bother to post on a wrestling forum. You might not be I watch Indy promotions in Norway hardcore, but certainly not really casual. For me I'd say a casual would be somebody who occasionally or frequently watches a show, but isn't necessarily a full on dedicated fan. Like I watch MMA every weekend and discuss it on message boards. I'd say I'm a hardcore MMA fan. But my friend and family group will link for the bigger PPVs and fight night cards. I'd consider them to be casual fans. As they aren't just watching every card. But they will watch if it's big enough and they know a decent amount about the bigger name fighters.


But your description of the casual MMA fan is where I'm at with wrestling - so you confirm my point there. I've missed ppv's and missed a number of Dynamite's. There's often stuff on Dynamite that I don't quite get, because I don't watch Dark and BTE. I mainly come to this forum for that precise reason - as a casual fan I can pick up on missed content here much quicker than watching all those shows. 

Pinning the whole definition around whether someone goes onto a forum seems overly simplistic (especially in an age of such accessibility to these places). There are plenty of things I'm into over and above wrestling - and would more likely be considered a hardcore fan - but have never gone onto a message board, because I didn't need to catch up on missed content. 

The variation in how each fan connects with a product is vast. It seems arbitrary to say that someone who fits the description you laid out above in the MMA example has crossed over the line from casual because they posted 50 times (60 now lol) on a message board over 12 months. 

Also, this whole discussion is about attracting casual fans to wrestling. At some point you want that fan to become dedicated to your product otherwise what's the point? The whole discussion is around whether AEW have done that or ar capable of doing so. In my case and many others who had given up on wrestling, they have. Though I'm not pretending to know what those numbers of people are like, to be clear. My initial post was in response to others saying that AEW definitely don't attract that type of fan so I gave myself (and friends) up as an example.


----------



## RapShepard

Pentagon Senior said:


> But your description of the casual MMA fan is where I'm at with wrestling - so you confirm my point there. I've missed ppv's and missed a number of Dynamite's. There's often stuff on Dynamite that I don't quite get, because I don't watch Dark and BTE. I mainly come to this forum for that precise reason - as a casual fan I can pick up on missed content here much quicker than watching all those shows.
> 
> Pinning the whole definition around whether someone goes onto a forum seems overly simplistic (especially in an age of such accessibility to these places). There are plenty of things I'm into over and above wrestling - and would more likely be considered a hardcore fan - but have never gone onto a message board, because I didn't need to catch up on missed content.
> 
> The variation in how each fan connects with a product is vast. It seems arbitrary to say that someone who fits the description you laid out above in the MMA description has crossed over the line from casual because they posted 50 times (60 now lol) on a message board over 12 months.
> 
> Also, this whole discussion is about attracting casual fans to wrestling. At some point you want that fan to become dedicated to your product otherwise what's the point? The whole discussion is around whether AEW have done that or ar capable of doing so. In my case and many others who had given up on wrestling, they have. Though I'm not pretending to know what those numbers of people are like, to be clear. My initial post was in response to others saying that AEW definitely don't attract that type of fan so I gave myself (and friends) up as an example.


For me I think it's just a certain level of fandom you have to have to go join a forum specifically dedicated to a subject. 

As far as what it would take to bring in casuals I think all promotions with a feasible TV deal are just one truly engrossing storyline away from being able to attract a large amount of casuals. I think AEW has allegedly done a good job of getting people who weren't watching WWE shows, but still in the wrestling bubble back to watching wrestling. But I don't think they've created a tier of fans that people would typically call a casual fan.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

RapShepard said:


> For me I think it's just a certain level of fandom you have to have to go join a forum specifically dedicated to a subject.
> 
> As far as what it would take to bring in casuals I think all promotions with a feasible TV deal are just one truly engrossing storyline away from being able to attract a large amount of casuals. I think AEW has allegedly done a good job of getting people who weren't watching WWE shows, but still in the wrestling bubble back to watching wrestling. But I don't think they've created a tier of fans that people would typically call a casual fan.


I agree and disagree with you here in parts. Before AEW I hadn't watched barely any wrestling for years, and hadn't watched regularly since circa 2002. There are others like me in that respect and AEW should be praised for getting those people interested again imo. Call us lapsed, casual or whatever label...it's a good first step. 

I see what you mean about that level of casual fan. I think the discussion got confused a little by getting fixated on the terms. 

With regards bringing entirely new eyes on the product, as happened during the attitude era, that is the million dollar question and a discussion in and of itself. I would love to think you are correct - that a gripping storyline involving compelling characters could do so - but I'm far from convinced. It's a very different time now - kayfabe is dead, reality tv is popular, social media etc. Fake fighting doesn't necessarily sit with sociey in the same way now and might never connect with a mainstream audience again. The attitude era may have been the perfect storm of good timing and big stars. I don't think we can know for sure and I do hope I'm wrong to be pessimistic on that front.


----------



## RapShepard

Pentagon Senior said:


> I agree and disagree with you here in parts. Before AEW I hadn't watched barely any wrestling for years, and hadn't watched regularly since circa 2002. There are others like me in that respect and AEW should be praised for getting those people interested again imo. Call us lapsed, casual or whatever label...it's a good first step.
> 
> I see what you mean about that level of casual fan. I think the discussion got confused a little by getting fixated on the terms.
> 
> With regards bringing entirely new eyes on the product, as happened during the attitude era, that is the million dollar question and a discussion in and of itself. I would love to think you are correct - that a gripping storyline involving compelling characters could do so - but I'm far from convinced. It's a very different time now - kayfabe is dead, reality tv is popular, social media etc. Fake fighting doesn't necessarily sit with sociey in the same way now and might never connect with a mainstream audience again. The attitude era may have been the perfect storm of good timing and big stars. I don't think we can know for sure and I do hope I'm wrong to be pessimistic on that front.


Yeah it's certainly not a simple answer. I think it will take something with a drastically different presentation like LU. Hell maybe the whole show being cinematic from the matches to the backstage is what it would take. I really don't know though. Whoever figures it out will make a ton of money though lol


----------



## Pentagon Senior

RapShepard said:


> Yeah it's certainly not a simple answer. I think it will take something with a drastically different presentation like LU. Hell maybe the whole show being cinematic from the matches to the backstage is what it would take. I really don't know though. Whoever figures it out will make a ton of money though lol


Yeh perhaps something totally unrealistic but where you can lose yourself in the fantasy, like a live version of Game of Thrones (not that I've ever seen it but it's popular) but with wrestling lol. Or alternatively, paying a large sum to an already famous actor/sportsman in their prime to come and be the star of a new wrestling show - who that would be though is anyone's guess.

I'm just not convinced that by taking OC and Mark Stunt off screen, improving storylines and having more realism in the matches (which seems to be what some folk suggest here) would magically bring in millions of casual fans.


----------



## 3venflow

The Lucha Underground idea is one I've posted about... the only risk is, the whole cinematic feel could get tiresome after a while. But they could certainly steal some of the techniques from LU.

I often wonder what a high-end writer could do with pro wrestling. Not these bog standard guys that WWE has brought in. But someone like Vince Gilligan (Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, X-Files) or Sam Esmail (Mr. Robot). There may be better examples. Imagine a writer of that quality who _gets_ how pro wrestling works (or is taught) and the storylines he could produce. A top top writer would create a road map of several years. I know if I was a writer, I'd have everything tentatively planned out for at least a year, including the card for every weekly TV show (subject to change, new arrivals, etc.). Too much in pro wrestling, including AEW, seems thrown together at the last minute.

Like him or not, Russo is probably the guy who has been closest to creating TV that compares with popular mainstream shows, as proven in the Attitude Era when it was must-see TV.


----------



## RapShepard

Pentagon Senior said:


> Yeh perhaps something totally unrealistic but where you can lose yourself in the fantasy, like a live version of Game of Thrones (not that I've ever seen it but it's popular) but with wrestling lol. Or alternatively, paying a large sum to an already famous actor/sportsman in their prime to come and be the star of a new wrestling show - who that would be though is anyone's guess.
> 
> I'm just not convinced that by taking OC and Mark Stunt off screen, improving storylines and having more realism in the matches (which seems to be what some folk suggest here) would magically bring in millions of casual fans.


Agree with the last part so much, whatever the solution is, certainly isn't as simple as taking wrestler X, Y, or Z off and less flipping. That's just scapegoating people and things for whatever the real problem is. 



3venflow said:


> The Lucha Underground idea is one I've posted about... the only risk is, the whole cinematic feel could get tiresome after a while. But they could certainly steal some of the techniques from LU.
> 
> I often wonder what a high-end writer could do with pro wrestling. Not these bog standard guys that WWE has brought in. But someone like Vince Gilligan (Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, X-Files) or Sam Esmail (Mr. Robot). There may be better examples. Imagine a writer of that quality who _gets_ how pro wrestling works (or is taught) and the storylines he could produce. A top top writer would create a road map of several years. I know if I was a writer, I'd have everything tentatively planned out for at least a year, including the card for every weekly TV show (subject to change, new arrivals, etc.). Too much in pro wrestling, including AEW, seems thrown together at the last minute.
> 
> Like him or not, Russo is probably the guy who has been closest to creating TV that compares with popular mainstream shows, as proven in the Attitude Era when it was must-see TV.


A truly great writer that understands wrestling surely would be interesting at the very least someone like a good comic book writer that's used to keeping an ensemble cast in check and interesting.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

TKO Wrestling said:


> This is ChipnWoods forum, check out their ridiculous post counts from this month (and past). Nothing you say, no matter how sensible it is, will be approved by the two. You are a casual fan by every definition except one that really bothers the WWE marks: you don't watch WWE. Because of that, you are deemed useless to them.


That's not true at all though? I agreed that he brought up a good point and a perspective I hadn't seen before? 

Also, I haven't watched WWE regularly since 2006? Do I consider myself useless also? Jog on.



Pentagon Senior said:


> Hmmmm yes I suspected as much. This mythical casual fan archetype they speak of is rarer than bigfoot.


Don't know why you're being rude, we were having a pleasant discussion and now you're bashing me? Come on bro, don't fall into the "LOLZ CHIP AND WOOD BAD US GOOD!" war.


----------



## The Wood

RapShepard said:


> *Realistically you can't be all that casual of a wrestling fan if you bother to post on a wrestling forum.*You might not be I watch Indy promotions in Norway hardcore, but certainly not really casual. For me I'd say a casual would be somebody who occasionally or frequently watches a show, but isn't necessarily a full on dedicated fan. Like I watch MMA every weekend and discuss it on message boards. I'd say I'm a hardcore MMA fan. But my friend and family group will link for the bigger PPVs and fight night cards. I'd consider them to be casual fans. As they aren't just watching every card. But they will watch if it's big enough and they know a decent amount about the bigger name fighters.


Yep. Not buying a PPV doesn’t mean you don’t qualify as a hardcore fan. I think I’ve been able to stomach one episode of Dynamite start-to-finish and haven’t been able to watch ANY entire wrestling show in 2020 without breaking it into parts, yet I’m definitely a hardcore fan.

I meant to quote another post here, but I completely agree with the sentiment that wrestling just asks too much of its audience, and that more content hurts, not helps. AEW had a big advantage only asking 2 hours of its audience’s time.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Chip Chipperson said:


> That's not true at all though? I agreed that he brought up a good point and a perspective I hadn't seen before?
> 
> Also, I haven't watched WWE regularly since 2006? Do I consider myself useless also? Jog on.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't know why you're being rude, we were having a pleasant discussion and now you're bashing me? Come on bro, don't fall into the "LOLZ CHIP AND WOOD BAD US GOOD!" war.


Haha, I can't help being suspicious it's just the impression I get from reading your posts. But you're right I don't want to fall into that war.

On topic, if we're talking about attracting large numbers of new eyes to the product - if that's what you mean by casual fans - I suspect it would take more than the changes people bang on about here. I'm not convinced pro wrestling can get back to that mainstream position in this day and age.


----------



## The Wood

Of course wrestling can get back there. Why couldn’t it? It just shoots itself in the foot constantly by ignoring what has worked historically, and ignoring the very fundamentals of what it is and supposed to be. It’s become self-conscious and ashamed of actually being wrestling, and the people actually industry have that mentality. It’s so keen to “evolve” into something else that isn’t wrestling.

No one fucking tries. That is the issue.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pentagon Senior said:


> Haha, I can't help being suspicious it's just the impression I get from reading your posts. But you're right I don't want to fall into that war.
> 
> On topic, if we're talking about attracting large numbers of new eyes to the product - if that's what you mean by casual fans - I suspect it would take more than the changes people bang on about here. I'm not convinced pro wrestling can get back to that mainstream position in this day and age.


My feeling all along that was later backed up by a study is that wrestling fans left in droves in the early 2000's because wrestling started to suck. Characters not as interesting, matches not as good, stories lacking.

I think there are millions of people out there who might be open to giving the right wrestling show a chance but AEW is instead falling into just being an alternate WWE with different wrestling matches.

A show with compelling characters, hard-hitting and realistic style wrestling, stories that matter, characters that are easy to emotionally invest in etc would be an improvement on the ratings they do now at least. Be a compelling and fun product for 2-3 years maybe word starts to spread that there is this awesome wrestling show on TNT and more people come back.

AEW has not one character I am genuinely emotionally invested in. They have guys that I like but ultimately I don't really care if Hangman beats Kenny or if The Bucks beat FTR and nobody else does either. Give me a story and make me fall in love (From a TV viewer perspective, nothing creepy) with the characters and then suddenly AEW starts becoming much more compelling.

I think The Elite are meant to be relatable but who can honestly relate to a group of goofy millionaires?


----------



## The Wood

I just actually engaged with the numbers between Raw and AEW this week. I think I’ve seen people suggesting that AEW is supposed to be beating Raw in some demos or something? Or have I completely misinterpreted some of the spin lines around the numbers?
The smallest gaps I could find is the “key demo” and in boys and men under 35, of which AEW gets about 57% on its respective night (which I think is an overall weaker night for television). That’s with Raw producing 33.3% more content.

When it comes to adults under 35, AEW only got 45% of what Raw did this week. I was pretty sure that was supposed to be a demo AEW apparently wins?

Genuine question, not being snarky. I’m sure I’ve seen people talking about AEW beating Raw in a demo or two.


----------



## fabi1982

The Wood said:


> I just actually engaged with the numbers between Raw and AEW this week. I think I’ve seen people suggesting that AEW is supposed to be beating Raw in some demos or something? Or have I completely misinterpreted some of the spin lines around the numbers?
> The smallest gaps I could find is the “key demo” and in boys and men under 35, of which AEW gets about 57% on its respective night (which I think is an overall weaker night for television). That’s with Raw producing 33.3% more content.
> 
> When it comes to adults under 35, AEW only got 45% of what Raw did this week. I was pretty sure that was supposed to be a demo AEW apparently wins?
> 
> Genuine question, not being snarky. I’m sure I’ve seen people talking about AEW beating Raw in a demo or two.


It happend and people thought it was the beginning of the AEWkingdom, but like Sting, it never happend and now there are other things important, like most viewers with more than one dog, or whatever Meltzer throws at them


----------



## The Wood

fabi1982 said:


> It happend and people thought it was the beginning of the AEWkingdom, but like Sting, it never happend and now there are other things important, like most viewers with more than one dog, or whatever Meltzer throws at them


I try not to listen to Meltzer and Alvarez anymore, because it boils up the blood, but I was bored and heard Alvarez talking about AEW this past week. Besides completely sweeping Tony Khan’s promise of a big surprise under the rug by comparing it to blatant false advertising, he called AEW’s viewership “Attitude era numbers.”

Context: He was talking about heads per home or some shit, and not just the bulk number of people, but come the fuck on. That’s designed to be a loaded sentiment. And that’s how people get confused and actually think AEW is a hot property as opposed to being smashed by Raw in 40-60% in all categories. A three-hour show, mind you.


----------



## fabi1982

The Wood said:


> I try not to listen to Meltzer and Alvarez anymore, because it boils up the blood, but I was bored and heard Alvarez talking about AEW this past week. Besides completely sweeping Tony Khan’s promise of a big surprise under the rug by comparing it to blatant false advertising, he called AEW’s viewership “Attitude era numbers.”
> 
> Context: He was talking about heads per home or some shit, and not just the bulk number of people, but come the fuck on. That’s designed to be a loaded sentiment. And that’s how people get confused and actually think AEW is a hot property as opposed to being smashed by Raw in 40-60% in all categories. A three-hour show, mind you.


I even didnt watch Dynamite of the mediocricy what was Full Gear (first time ever not watching). Khans tweet just was the nail in the coffin to not watch and like I said, they will digg very deep to find whatever metric is out their which justifies that AEW is great and loved by millions. And you can read it here how people eat it up. Like in everyday life, not thinking with their own brains, just repeat what someone is saying just because it sounds good. Like last weeks rating, or PPV buys. It is just sad to see how those „fans“ will drive away actual fans, because AEW builds the show more and more to please those „fans“.


----------



## One Shed

The Wood said:


> I try not to listen to Meltzer and Alvarez anymore, because it boils up the blood, but I was bored and heard Alvarez talking about AEW this past week. Besides completely sweeping Tony Khan’s promise of a big surprise under the rug by comparing it to blatant false advertising, he called AEW’s viewership “Attitude era numbers.”
> 
> Context: He was talking about heads per home or some shit, and not just the bulk number of people, but come the fuck on. That’s designed to be a loaded sentiment. And that’s how people get confused and actually think AEW is a hot property as opposed to being smashed by Raw in 40-60% in all categories. A three-hour show, mind you.


Wait, he said AEW was getting Attitude Era numbers?!? What does that make Smackdown? Three times BETTER than the Attitude Era? I had no idea WWE was doing so well!


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> Wait, he said AEW was getting Attitude Era numbers?!? What does that make Smackdown? Three times BETTER than the Attitude Era? I had no idea WWE was doing so well!


No, his argument is that for the first time since the Attitude Era, more FAMILIES (cue Eddie Kingston) are watching wrestling together. As if to say SD does 2 million some viewers, but there is only 1.4 people watching per home vs AEW having 3.7 whatever people watching per home. I don’t have the exact numbers, that was just an explanation.

Now the real question I keep asking every time I hear that posed is this, “How the fuck do they know how many people are watching together in a single home?” Hah


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> No, his argument is that for the first time since the Attitude Era, more FAMILIES (cue Eddie Kingston) are watching wrestling together. As if to say SD does 2 million some viewers, but there is only 1.4 people watching per home vs AEW having 3.7 whatever people watching per home. I don’t have the exact numbers, that was just an explanation.
> 
> Now the real question I keep asking every time I hear that posed is this, “How the fuck do they know how many people are watching together in a single home?” Hah


Well that is some fuzzy math.

Yes, exactly how would they know the Nielsen Family average? Gotta show your work in math there, pal!


----------



## The Wood

Yeah, bdon’s right. Sorry, I may not have explained it properly. I think Alvarez said 1.7 people are watching per home. So that’s Marko Stunt’s family.


----------



## Cult03

The Wood said:


> Yeah, bdon’s right. Sorry, I may not have explained it properly. I think Alvarez said 1.7 people are watching per home. So that’s Marko Stunt’s family.


All 5 of them?


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Chip Chipperson said:


> My feeling all along that was later backed up by a study is that wrestling fans left in droves in the early 2000's because wrestling started to suck. Characters not as interesting, matches not as good, stories lacking.
> 
> I think there are millions of people out there who might be open to giving the right wrestling show a chance but AEW is instead falling into just being an alternate WWE with different wrestling matches.
> 
> A show with compelling characters, hard-hitting and realistic style wrestling, stories that matter, characters that are easy to emotionally invest in etc would be an improvement on the ratings they do now at least. Be a compelling and fun product for 2-3 years maybe word starts to spread that there is this awesome wrestling show on TNT and more people come back.
> 
> AEW has not one character I am genuinely emotionally invested in. They have guys that I like but ultimately I don't really care if Hangman beats Kenny or if The Bucks beat FTR and nobody else does either. Give me a story and make me fall in love (From a TV viewer perspective, nothing creepy) with the characters and then suddenly AEW starts becoming much more compelling.
> 
> I think The Elite are meant to be relatable but who can honestly relate to a group of goofy millionaires?


I don't necessarily dislike your ideas but: 
a) I don't think all those AE viewers are just waiting to get back into wrestling (regardless of why they left 20 yrs ago) - most people have moved onto other interests, and
b) it's been a year now and it's clear AEW isn't going to go down a route you are happy with - so getting miffed by that weekly seems pointless.

The Bucks style is more for the younger folks and I guess the idea is to keep making new, young fans rather than bringing back the oldies. That strategy makes sense ling term. The AE was great when I was a teenager but watching it back now there's lots of cringiness and dated material. 

Funnily enough, I love Hangman Page and feel he could be a big star in the future. I'm enjoying the long, nuanced journey he is on and feel that there will be lots to get invested in by the time he's finally at the top.


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> I don't necessarily dislike your ideas but:
> a) I don't think all those AE viewers are just waiting to get back into wrestling (regardless of why they left 20 yrs ago) - most people have moved onto other interests, and
> b) it's been a year now and it's clear AEW isn't going to go down a route you are happy with - so getting miffed by that weekly seems pointless.
> 
> The Bucks style is more for the younger folks and I guess the idea is to keep making new, young fans rather than bringing back the oldies. That strategy makes sense ling term. The AE was great when I was a teenager but watching it back now there's lots of cringiness and dated material.
> 
> Funnily enough, I love Hangman Page and feel he could be a big star in the future. I'm enjoying the long, nuanced journey he is on and feel that there will be lots to get invested in by the time he's finally at the top.


Those lapsed fans can find an interest in wrestling though. They might not be champing at the bit to get back into it, but if they saw a bus with some good looking and possibly recogniseable stars, advertising it as being a new promotion on TNT, they might give it a chance. Hell, 1.4 million people gave them that chance at the start.

It’s not pointless to want wrestling to be better and to suggest directions they could go down to make wrestling less embarrassing and niche. Especially if that’s what your interest is. I don’t get why people constantly try and heap shame onto that and try and get people to give up.

Are The Bucks making young fans though? I just did the comparison between AEW and Raw — the “dinosaur.” Raw is basically doubling them in most areas, and tripling them in some. Interest within the online bubble doesn’t translate to what is actually happening. More young fans care way more about Drew McIntyre becoming WWE Champion than they do The Bucks getting a 6-star match. They just do.

And there’s nothing wrong with Adam Page, except he’s no better off than when he started, and possibly even worse. His gimmick has gotten sillier and sillier and it won’t matter as much as it could when he wins the AEW Title.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> Those lapsed fans can find an interest in wrestling though. They might not be champing at the bit to get back into it, but if they saw a bus with some good looking and possibly recogniseable stars, advertising it as being a new promotion on TNT, they might give it a chance. Hell, 1.4 million people gave them that chance at the start.
> 
> It’s not pointless to want wrestling to be better and to suggest directions they could go down to make wrestling less embarrassing and niche. Especially if that’s what your interest is. I don’t get why people constantly try and heap shame onto that and try and get people to give up.
> 
> Are The Bucks making young fans though? I just did the comparison between AEW and Raw — the “dinosaur.” Raw is basically doubling them in most areas, and tripling them in some. Interest within the online bubble doesn’t translate to what is actually happening. More young fans care way more about Drew McIntyre becoming WWE Champion than they do The Bucks getting a 6-star match. They just do.
> 
> And there’s nothing wrong with Adam Page, except he’s no better off than when he started, and possibly even worse. His gimmick has gotten sillier and sillier and it won’t matter as much as it could when he wins the AEW Title.


There's nothing wrong with discussing how to make wrestling better (in general) and to be fair you and Chip have some interesting thoughts on the matter. But this is the AEW section and it's quite clear by now that they aren't going down the route you guys would like - so what's the point in continually grasping for something that clearly won't happen? I guess you need aother new promotion to come along or hope that a more traditional promotion gets major investment. That's all irrelevant in this section though. 

There are plenty of people who like the promotion as it is. Perhaps there would be an extra few hundred thousand people watching if they followed your ideas (we can't know for sure) but who's to say that is what they (or the current fans) want?

Comparing the long established household brand of WWE to AEW in that way is flawed, for obvious reasons. If the young fans do like it, it will still take years to overcome the power of that brand. 

I disagree on Adam Page. If he was on WWE they would already have saturated him with the same old matches etc - which is a big part of the reason I turned off. Nothing felt special anymore. I love the way his rise is being teased, his character is garnering layers of emotion and the pay off will benefit imo. The match v Kenny was a masterclass in giving us something great whilst holding off for the major pay off down the line. I like how I don't see the same faces and matches from week to week. And there are other people to keep me entertained whilst the slow build goes on.

It's fair enough if you don't like it but not reasonable to assume everyone else should agree with you or that AEW should change to how you want wrestling to be portrayed.


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> There's nothing wrong with discussing how to make wrestling better (in general) and to be fair you and Chip have some interesting thoughts on the matter. But this is the AEW section and it's quite clear by now that they aren't going down the route you guys would like - so what's the point in continually grasping for something that clearly won't happen? I guess you need aother new promotion to come along or hope that a more traditional promotion gets major investment. That's all irrelevant in this section though.
> 
> There are plenty of people who like the promotion as it is. Perhaps there would be an extra few hundred thousand people watching if they followed your ideas (we can't know for sure) but who's to say that is what they (or the current fans) want?
> 
> Comparing the long established household brand of WWE to AEW in that way is flawed, for obvious reasons. If the young fans do like it, it will still take years to overcome the power of that brand.
> 
> I disagree on Adam Page. If he was on WWE they would already have saturated him with the same old matches etc - which is a big part of the reason I turned off. Nothing felt special anymore. I love the way his rise is being teased, his character is garnering layers of emotion and the pay off will benefit imo. The match v Kenny was a masterclass in giving us something great whilst holding off for the major pay off down the line. I like how I don't see the same faces and matches from week to week. And there are other people to keep me entertained whilst the slow build goes on.
> 
> It's fair enough if you don't like it but not reasonable to assume everyone else should agree with you or that AEW should change to how you want wrestling to be portrayed.


There’s nothing wrong with discussing what they could do if you think it is what they should do. I guess we’ll just never agree on that point. I care too much to just give up.

I am very hopeful that a new promotion comes along. I think it is relevant in here as this is what AEW had the potential to be and AEW is kind of the catch-all for potential outside WWE. It is spawned from that whole movement.

As to how this directly impacts ratings: There’s an issue if you’re only attracting a certain number of fans. They might like it, but when the majority don’t, you’re leaving money on the table. It’s as simple as that.

I think the stuff that is generally considered good by people who want a more logical and classic booking style for AEW is also accepted by the AEW fans too. Early Jericho, MJF, Jungle Boy, Adam Page, Ricky Starks — the stuff that is good by our books doesn’t actually alienate the hardcore AEW fan. Because there is an art to this stuff.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> There’s nothing wrong with discussing what they could do if you think it is what they should do. I guess we’ll just never agree on that point. I care too much to just give up.
> 
> I am very hopeful that a new promotion comes along. I think it is relevant in here as this is what AEW had the potential to be and AEW is kind of the catch-all for potential outside WWE. It is spawned from that whole movement.
> 
> As to how this directly impacts ratings: There’s an issue if you’re only attracting a certain number of fans. They might like it, but when the majority don’t, you’re leaving money on the table. It’s as simple as that.
> 
> I think the stuff that is generally considered good by people who want a more logical and classic booking style for AEW is also accepted by the AEW fans too. Early Jericho, MJF, Jungle Boy, Adam Page, Ricky Starks — the stuff that is good by our books doesn’t actually alienate the hardcore AEW fan. Because there is an art to this stuff.


I see where you're coming from but it seems like a battle you've already lost - TK, The Bucks etc aren't into what you're into. I just hope for your sanity that you're not still here in another 5 years hoping for less flips and less Orange Cassidy from AEW🤞

I guess I'm lucky in that I enjoy the product. Whilst I see a number of valuable discussion points here it seems illogical to keep repeating them indefinitely, hoping for some magical change that never comes. I don't like any of the other wrestling promotions that Ive tried but I don't go onto their message boards and feel the need to put my opinion over and hoping they change to suit me. 

Hopefully another rich person (or someone with investment) with a more traditional approach comes along to throw you guys a bone!


----------



## Pippen94

Pentagon Senior said:


> I see where you're coming from but it seems like a battle you've already lost - TK, The Bucks etc aren't into what you're into. I just hope for your sanity that you're not still here in another 5 years hoping for less flips and less Orange Cassidy from AEW🤞
> 
> I guess I'm lucky in that I enjoy the product. Whilst I see a number of valuable discussion points here it seems illogical to keep repeating them indefinitely, hoping for some magical change that never comes. I don't like any of the other wrestling promotions that Ive tried but I don't go onto their message boards and feel the need to put my opinion over and hoping they change to suit me.
> 
> Hopefully another rich person (or someone with investment) with a more traditional approach comes along to throw you guys a bone!


Roh, nwa, mlw, new japan... There is more choice now & they're more accessible then it's ever been. Hard to imagine why somebody would spend time fixated on product they don't like. But that's what ignore option is for


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Pippen94 said:


> Roh, nwa, mlw, new japan... There is more choice now & they're more accessible then it's ever been. Hard to imagine why somebody would spend time fixated on product they don't like. But that's what ignore option is for


Yeah that's what surprises me too. Ah yes, I've read a lot about the ignore function it's a good option to keep in my back pocket lol


----------



## El Hammerstone

Pippen94 said:


> Roh, nwa, mlw, new japan... There is more choice now & they're more accessible then it's ever been. Hard to imagine why somebody would spend time fixated on product they don't like. But that's what ignore option is for


Because AEW is a mainstream promotion with a weekly show on TNT; the only viable option when it comes to making a real dent in the American wrestling landscape. It's really quite obvious.


----------



## Shock Street

This forum would be boring if @The Wood didn't criticize AEW and that's coming from a Dark Order mark... tbh I haven't had any conversations with him that weren't respectful. I find a lot of the arguments start when people who are really on side with AEW start to go "why are u here then" and "times have changed!!" instead of actually saying WHY they disagree. Not always, but it happens.

There's a subreddit called AEWofficial that's literally all positive if that's what you want. I go there sometimes myself, it's a chill space but it's also an echo chamber.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Shock Street said:


> This forum would be boring if @The Wood didn't criticize AEW and that's coming from a Dark Order mark... !tbh I haven't had any conversations with him that weren't respectful. I find a lot of the arguments start when people who are really on side with AEW start to go "why are u here then" and "times have changed!!" instead of actually saying WHY they disagree. Not always, but it happens.
> 
> There's a subreddit called AEWofficial that's literally all positive if that's what you want. I go there sometimes myself, it's a chill space but it's also an echo chamber.


To be fair I've seen negative points brought up by a number of the 'super fans' recently including Optikk and LICC. I've also said that the women's division is poor and agree with someone (might have been you?) who posted about a lack of heat in building feuds. Not sure anyone thinks AEW is perfect nor that an echo chamber would be a good thing. I suspect that we would see more of that if it wasn't for the wall of negativity that's already in each thread when you arrive. 

Wood and Chip do make good points but, for me, they get lost in a sea of reaching for anything that can be seen as negative and repeating the same thing for months on end as though their subjective opinions are fact. It makes people less likely to discuss the valuable points constructively because it feels like a smear campaign - so people naturally get defensive and don't want to add to the moaning. It also doesn't help that their comments often come when they've not even watched the show lol.


----------



## Shock Street

Pentagon Senior said:


> To be fair I've seen negative points brought up by a number of the 'super fans' recently including Optikk and LICC. I've also said that the women's division is poor and agree with someone (might have been you?) who posted about a lack of heat in building feuds. Not sure anyone thinks AEW is perfect nor that an echo chamber would be a good thing. I suspect that we would see more of that if it wasn't for the wall of negativity that's already in each thread when you arrive.
> 
> Wood and Chip do make good points but, for me, they get lost in a sea of reaching for anything that can be seen as negative and repeating the same thing for months on end as though their subjective opinions are fact. It makes people less likely to discuss the valuable points constructively because it feels like a smear campaign - so people naturally get defensive and don't want to add to the moaning. It also doesn't help that their comments often come when they've not even watched the show lol.


Just to clarify, I wasn't specifically saying *you *think AEW can do no wrong, I apologize if it came off that way. Was more of a general statement


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Shock Street said:


> Just to clarify, I wasn't specifically saying *you *think AEW can do no wrong, I apologize if it came off that way. Was more of a general statement


No, no, not at all. And I appreciate I'm not the boss of what is right or wrong here - I just feel personally that debates would be a lot more constructive if the people at both extremes tried to be a little less entrenched in their views (and repetitive). Same goes for society as a whole in 2020 lol. 

Have a good one 🙌


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329530339622961153

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329530543470362625


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329531512828661768
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

That's the biggest 18-49 number from AEW in a long time while being opposed, I think since 1/8


----------



## PushCrymeTyme

aew did a humongous .37 in 18-49
tnt is going to be salivating at the advertisers opportunities


----------



## Pippen94

Demo gods!!!!


----------



## Erik.

Highest viewership in nearly 2 months.
Nearly a 100k increase on last week.
Biggest 18-49 demographic since 15th January.

I'd say they did pretty well this week.


----------



## Prosper

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329530339622961153
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329530543470362625
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wow .37 in the demo and a big overall viewer jump back into the mid-800's. Good shit.


----------



## rbl85

Not bad for the worst episode of Dynamite.....XD


----------



## Pippen94

Aew #7 for night - did wwe even make top 50??


----------



## rbl85

Pippen94 said:


> Aew #7 for night - did wwe even make top 50??


NXT was 56 with 0.14 in the 18-49 demo


----------



## Erik.

AEW finally won the war between them and Real Housewives.

Good going TEAM TAZ.


----------



## Pippen94

rbl85 said:


> NXT was 56 with 0.14 in the 18-49 demo


That is such an ass kicking!!!


----------



## El Hammerstone

Good number, now let's see some consistency moving forward.


----------



## rbl85

Erik. said:


> AEW finally won the war between them and Real Housewives.
> 
> Good going TEAM TAZ.


They've won a battle after weeks and weeks of ass whooping.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Well that is a surprise. It was probably the contract signing. For some reason, fans love that stuff as something usually goes down.


----------



## 3venflow

Wow, better rise than I expected. It was a good show and perhaps running ads during RAW, Sunday Night Football + the documentary brought in some viewers.

This was AEW's best rating since the September 30th show and their joint best number in the key demo since January!

Looking forward to the quarter hour breakdown to see what made the show and how the women's segments fared.


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## omaroo

For an average show they are lucky this week.

Will be around 700k-750k next week.


----------



## 3venflow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329537464818487296


----------



## Shock Street

Almost 100k more people watching wrestling this Wednesday. Weird.

Last weeks total was 1396000, this week is 1488000.


----------



## Ozell Gray

it’s a good boost from what they did last week but watch it go down next week like it always does.


----------



## RiverFenix

More NXT fans of NBA? NBA had it's draft last night as well...


----------



## rbl85

Ozell Gray said:


> it’s a good boost from what they did last week but watch it go down next week like it always does.


And it will go up in 2 weeks.


----------



## Erik.

Shock Street said:


> Almost 100k more people watching wrestling this Wednesday. Weird.
> 
> Last weeks total was 1396000, this week is 1488000.


Seems to fluctuate depending on what's on, really.

What's surprising is 100k more people watched on a night there was an NBA draft.


----------



## Ozell Gray

rbl85 said:


> And it will go up in 2 weeks.


And then it’ll fall afterwards.


----------



## Shock Street

Erik. said:


> Seems to fluctuate depending on what's on, really.
> 
> What's surprising is 100k more people watched on a night there was an NBA draft.


Oh yeah, I'm past trying to understand it, I thought the NBA draft would have wrecked it


----------



## bdon

omaroo said:


> For an average show they are lucky this week.
> 
> Will be around 700k-750k next week.


This was goodwill for last week’s awesome episode (Cody’s cringe segment notwithstanding). Fans tuned in and got a bad show this week.

You HAVE to capitalize on this shit.


----------



## rich110991

Great rating and it still deserves more. Dynamite is so much more enjoyable than RAW, Smackdown or NXT and it’s not even close.


----------



## Dark Emperor

3venflow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329537464818487296


Lmao, Meltzer creaming his pants , at least pretend to be impartial lol. I love how he desperately studies the whole rating breakdown looking for one little demo that AEW may have won and put it out there like a the biggest thing ever.


----------



## Erik.

Ozell Gray said:


> And then it’ll fall afterwards.


What's interesting is this is the 2nd week in a row that Dynamites viewership increased. Because like you say, it's usually up one week, down the next, up the next etc. which is always a bit odd.

That's only happened twice in their history - July 2020 and November 2019.

If it DOES have a slight increase next week - that'd be pretty big for them heading into Mox/Omega II which is likely to do 900k+


----------



## PushCrymeTyme

bdon said:


> This was goodwill for last week’s awesome episode (Cody’s cringe segment notwithstanding). Fans tuned in and got a bad show this week.
> 
> You HAVE to capitalize on this shit.


a bad show this week? bruh if that is what you consider a bad show i dont think this show is for you. you should try that other 3 hour repetitive sports entertainment boring show it may fit your style better


----------



## Pippen94

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> More NXT fans of NBA? NBA had it's draft last night as well...


NBA & aew share similar demo. Draft meant more watchers in that group last night to switch between two


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Magic f’kn demo number

when the night’s overall viewership drops, and they maintain 0.37 - that is gonna be a cool million


----------



## La Parka

PushCrymeTyme said:


> a bad show this week? bruh if that is what you consider a bad show i dont think this show is for you. you should try that other 3 hour repetitive sports entertainment boring show it may fit your style better


"go watch WWE!"

a bold strategy to take for a fan of AEW.


----------



## bdon

PushCrymeTyme said:


> a bad show this week? bruh if that is what you consider a bad show i dont think this show is for you. you should try that other 3 hour repetitive sports entertainment boring show it may fit your style better


I’ve thought about this since it seems most enjoyed at least one hour of the show, and all I can conclude is that last night felt way too much like an episode of Vince Russo’s Monday Night Raw. I don’t like that shit. I didn’t like it when Austin was king of it, and I damn sure don’t like it in 2020 being portrayed by Cody rHHHodes.


----------



## DammitChrist

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329530543470362625
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329531512828661768
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wow, that's weird.

I could've sworn that AEW was 'dying.'


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> Wow, that's weird.
> 
> I could've sworn that AEW was 'dying.'


I'm cringing. Nobody with any legitimacy has ever said that. Interest dying? Sure. Company itself dying? Naw.

Also, an 850k rating wouldn't prove AEW isn't dying anyway even if someone did say it. It's not an amazing rating and it's dying days of TNA numbers.

It is good they've seen an increase of 100k though but after what I've heard about this past show can they capitalise? Hornswoggle in a diaper wouldn't be enough to get me back tbh...


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'm cringing. Nobody with any legitimacy has ever said that. Interest dying? Sure. Company itself dying? Naw.
> 
> Also, an 850k rating wouldn't prove AEW isn't dying anyway even if someone did say it. It's not an amazing rating and it's dying days of TNA numbers.
> 
> It is good they've seen an increase of 100k though but after what I've heard about this past show can they capitalise? Hornswoggle in a diaper wouldn't be enough to get me back tbh...


I’m not sure why we continue comparing numbers from a decade ago. If the best wrestling show ever was created and booked perfectly tomorrow, do we believe it would be drawing 10 million like Monday nights of the past?


----------



## Kentucky34

850k is a pretty average number to be honest. 

It only looks good because last week's number was so low. 

AEW fans can start bragging once they hit 1 million again.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> I’m not sure why we continue comparing numbers from a decade ago. If the best wrestling show ever was created and booked perfectly tomorrow, do we believe it would be drawing 10 million like Monday nights of the past?


Nah, I reckon the peak now would be 3-4 million for TV. AEW with their thirty million dollar roster should be easily doing over a million a week though and should probably be a few hundred thousand behind whatever brand is currently coming second from WWE.


----------



## CovidFan

Pac bringing in them ratings.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'm cringing. Nobody with any legitimacy has ever said that. Interest dying? Sure. Company itself dying? Naw.
> 
> Also, an 850k rating wouldn't prove AEW isn't dying anyway even if someone did say it. It's not an amazing rating and it's dying days of TNA numbers.
> 
> It is good they've seen an increase of 100k though but after what I've heard about this past show can they capitalise? Hornswoggle in a diaper wouldn't be enough to get me back tbh...


Ppl who compare today's ratings to that of decade ago automatically lose argument


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Do you guys not see? When OC is advertised look at the rating. I swear it’s not just a coincidence


----------



## bdon

Optikk is All Elite said:


> Do you guys not see? When OC is advertised look at the rating. I swear it’s not just a coincidence


Put the title on him that way he’s a big part of the show then and always has a reason to be heavily featured on the show. Stand by your claims. Say it with your chest.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Optikk is All Elite said:


> Do you guys not see? When OC is advertised look at the rating. I swear it’s not just a coincidence


confirmed science


----------



## The XL 2

The ping pong around 750-850k, but rarely do they do better. They haven't been able to grow their audience.


----------



## MoxAsylum

I've given up on AEW. Have zero interest in watching


----------



## rbl85

MoxAsylum said:


> I've given up on AEW. Have zero interest in watching


Then why are you here ?


----------



## DammitChrist

MoxAsylum said:


> I've given up on AEW. Have zero interest in watching


Oh, thank God.

Surely, this means that you no longer have any interest in making future (horrid) posts/threads around the site for the forseeable future.

You’ll be ‘missed.’


----------



## One Shed

I have decided never to watch a show with a Kardashian in it. I think I will go find some Kardashian message boards, create an account, and tell them this information. That is how this works right?


----------



## thorn123

It is quite energy sapping worrying about tv ratings - never did before Dynamite ... good work this week, though it should be higher and comparable with Raw


----------



## Prosper

MoxAsylum said:


> I've given up on AEW. Have zero interest in watching


And I’m sure they have given up on trying to please people like you too. Vince gave up on you 15 years ago. I dont blame either company.


----------



## bdon

MoxAsylum said:


> I've given up on AEW. Have zero interest in watching


Now allowing a build for your World Heavyweight Champ leaves your feeling like, “Why even bother investing in these characters? If you aren’t into Cody or Jericho, you have no reason to think your guy can climb the rankings or ever be featured prominently enough to matter.”


----------



## sideon

DaveRA said:


> It is quite energy sapping worrying about tv ratings - never did before Dynamite ... good work this week, though it should be higher and comparable with Raw


Why should it be higher?


----------



## DammitChrist

sideon said:


> Why should it be higher?


The product is good overall, so they deserve higher numbers due to quality.


----------



## Khrushchev's Shoe

AEW is goofy but entertaining. I get a kick out of JR too.


----------



## thorn123

sideon said:


> Why should it be higher?


I think it is a better product than Raw (admittedly I haven't watched RAW in 18 months), and it should have a bigger audience IMO


----------



## MoxAsylum

bdon said:


> Now allowing a build for your World Heavyweight Champ leaves your feeling like, “Why even bother investing in these characters? If you aren’t into Cody or Jericho, you have no reason to think your guy can climb the rankings or ever be featured prominently enough to matter.”


Exactly, they treat Mox like second fiddle even as the world champion, also they push way too many geeks


----------



## Klitschko

Decent rating, but are we really going to pretend its amazing they got 850k again? They were supposed to get out of this 750-850 range after All Out happened. This company isn't growing at all. 

Feel free to quote me on this like prosperwithdeen got his prediction brought up and made fun of. For the rest of this year they will get 750-850k. The December 2nd show with Omega and Moxley will get 750-850k. I really think they burned through their good will with fans and won't be hitting 900's any time this year.


----------



## DaSlacker

Klitschko said:


> Decent rating, but are we really going to pretend its amazing they got 850k again? They were supposed to get out of this 750-850 range after All Out happened. This company isn't growing at all.
> 
> Feel free to quote me on this like prosperwithdeen got his prediction brought up and made fun of. For the rest of this year they will get 750-850k. The December 2nd show with Omega and Moxley will get 750-850k. I really think they burned through their good will with fans and won't be hitting 900's any time this year.


I'd be very surprised if Moxley vs Omega doesn't do 880,000, unless NXT counters with another WCW themed special. Though with War Games days later it would be difficult to run a special like GAB or Havoc.


----------



## Pippen94

Dynamite ranked #7 for night compared to #56.
More than double demo with 0.37 compared to 0.14
Further, beat all 3 hours of raw in 18-34 









AEW smokes NXT in the ratings







www.cagesideseats.com


----------



## Chip Chipperson

First of all, there is a ratings thread and you've been around long enough to know this.

Second of all, nobody cares about demographic when the people who watch your show make between 0-34 thousand a year and the majority live at home or with housemates.

Third of all, overall ratings mean more and AEW only won that slightly

Fourth, AEW SHOULD be smoking NXT every week with the amount of money they've invested. You should know this Pippen.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Klitschko said:


> Decent rating, but are we really going to pretend its amazing they got 850k again?


Someone just made a thread bragging about the ratings win. We're definitely going down that route.


----------



## Klitschko

Chip Chipperson said:


> Someone just made a thread bragging about the ratings win. We're definitely going down that route.


I read your post and right away predicted who made it. I just checked and yep, I wasn't wrong. 

Unleash it Chip. Unleash it all in there.


----------



## La Parka

lmao


----------



## kamaro011

It will be impressive if they beat the ratings when they debuted, now that will be worthy of the title name.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Klitschko said:


> I read your post and right away predicted who made it. I just checked and yep, I wasn't wrong.
> 
> Unleash it Chip. Unleash it all in there.


You just knew he was going to post it like he does everytime Dynamite reaches 800k viewers. I noticed he didn't post it when they got 700k viewers but is posting a thread about 800k 🤔.


----------



## Pippen94

Right, demos don't count & overall only matter - I'll contact ratings sites & ask them to stop ranking shows by by 18-49??

Aew has smoked wwe every Wednesday this year!!


----------



## Klitschko

Ozell Gray said:


> You just knew he was going to post it like he does everytime Dynamite reaches 800k viewers. I noticed he didn't post it when they got 700k viewers but is posting a thread about 800k 🤔.


I just don't see the point in bragging about getting back to 850k again. They should have been getting this as a constant rating two months ago. Thats how you know this company is fucked. People went from making threads and being happy about a million, to 900k, and now people are celebrating 850.


----------



## Pippen94

kamaro011 said:


> It will be impressive if they beat the ratings when they debuted, now that will be worthy of the title name.


No, this was biggest beat down yet - deserves it's own topic


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> Right, demos don't count & overall only matter - I'll contact ratings sites & ask them to stop ranking shows by by 18-49??
> 
> Aew has smoked wwe every Wednesday this year!!


If most AEW/hardcore wrestling fans weren't broke and living at their parents house it'd become a much more attractive demographic.

Nobody wants to advertise to a bunch of nerdy AEW fans unfortunately. WWE still offers the much more appealing fan base.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

1 million consistently is something they could brag about.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> If most AEW/hardcore wrestling fans weren't broke and living at their parents house it'd become a much more attractive demographic.
> 
> Nobody wants to advertise to a bunch of nerdy AEW fans unfortunately. WWE still offers the much more appealing fan base.


No one wants to market to boomers!!


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> 1 million consistently is something they could brag about.


Not going to happen when you continue to shove Jericho and Cody down the viewers’ throats. It’s kind of amazing that Moxley draws big numbers and can’t get more TV time.


----------



## kamaro011

Pippen94 said:


> No, this was biggest beat down yet - deserves it's own topic


I will be impressed if not me being reminded that NXT is still C-Show Brand of WWE, despite what Triple H and majority member of IWC thinks of NXT. For me it's still developmental brand and not in the same vein of Raw and Smackdown regardless of quality.

So yeah "biggest beatdown" to WWE C-Show, Vince McMahon must be shaken with fear from AEW when he saw that ratings.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Klitschko said:


> I just don't see the point in bragging about getting back to 850k again. They should have been getting this as a constant rating two months ago. Thats how you know this company is fucked. People went from making threads and being happy about a million, to 900k, and now people are celebrating 850.


I remember getting hate for saying that a couple of months ago that they're in trouble long term for not growing their audience. The thing I don't get is why people here keep setting the bar so low that when the ratings come out they always go "oh thats good considering what else was on tv" when there's always going to be something else on tv. They don't want to admit AEW's inability to grow. 

Any network executive or tv insider will tell you when a show is stagnant they decline long term and most never recover to what they once had. I see Dynamite going down that same road. It won't grow and the viewership will drop. They'll probably end up on Pursuit because TNT are already losing money on Dynamite and only made a profit ad revenue wise was when the NBA when it returned. So this talk of the "demos" is nonsensical because Advertisers hate wrestling thus Dynamite gets low ad rates.


----------



## justin waynes

Vince and HHH are happy for the ratings as long as aew doesn't get all the 1.3-1.4 million viewers who tune in to watch wrestling every Wednesday night. So sharing is okay for them.GOT IT?


----------



## La Parka

Pippen94 said:


> Right, demos don't count & overall only matter - I'll contact ratings sites & ask them to stop ranking shows by by 18-49??
> 
> Aew has smoked wwe every Wednesday this year!!


They lost to WWE's third brand on Halloween. A show that did not feature Keith Lee, Adam Cole, Finn Balor, Ciampa or Kross. 

AEW is doing okay but this is the equivalent of a TNA fan celebrating a ratings victory of ECW in 2007. 

WWE spreads it's talent out over 5 brands (Raw,Smackdown,NXT,NXT UK and 205 Live). They are not in any way competing with AEW and celebrating a victory over a brand that Vince McMahon probably couldn't even name 5 wrestlers on just makes AEW look bush league.


----------



## Pippen94

justin waynes said:


> Vince and HHH are happy for the ratings as long as aew doesn't get all the 1.3-1.4 million viewers who tune in to watch wrestling every Wednesday night. So sharing is okay for them.GOT IT?


Aew already beating raw in key demos - they are not happy about this


----------



## Pippen94

kamaro011 said:


> I will be impressed if not me being reminded that NXT is still C-Show Brand of WWE, despite what Triple H and majority member of IWC thinks of NXT. For me it's still developmental brand and not in the same vein of Raw and Smackdown regardless of quality.
> 
> So yeah "biggest beatdown" to WWE C-Show, Vince McMahon must be shaken with fear from AEW when he saw that ratings.


Cares enough to counter program. If they weren't worried would never had done that. Chief officer advised against it cause it would impact network sub's. Now aew catching flagship - shit getting real


----------



## Klitschko

Chip Chipperson said:


> If most AEW/hardcore wrestling fans weren't broke and living at their parents house it'd become a much more attractive demographic.
> 
> Nobody wants to advertise to a bunch of nerdy AEW fans unfortunately. WWE still offers the much more appealing fan base.


Where's the gif of the yellow shirt Orange Cassidy fan when you need it haha.

This thread will be fused with the ratings thread in a bit probably.


----------



## Pippen94

La Parka said:


> They lost to WWE's third brand on Halloween. A show that did not feature Keith Lee, Adam Cole, Finn Balor, Ciampa or Kross.
> 
> AEW is doing okay but this is the equivalent of a TNA fan celebrating a ratings victory of ECW in 2007.
> 
> WWE spreads it's talent out over 5 brands (Raw,Smackdown,NXT,NXT UK and 205 Live). They are not in any way competing with AEW and celebrating a victory over a brand that Vince McMahon probably couldn't even name 5 wrestlers on just makes AEW look bush league.


Well Vince is 77 so there's a lot happening in today's wrestling he has no clue about - that's problem
Aew's Halloween show outranked rival in ratings by some way - #11 to #25 I think but don't quote me. You guys reaching to claim any type if victory


----------



## kamaro011

Pippen94 said:


> Cares enough to counter program. If they weren't worried would never had done that. Chief officer advised against it cause it would impact network sub's. Now aew catching flagship - shit getting real


Can you share your source regarding these, because Triple H once said he is not worried from AEW and he is playing a long term game.

Triple H Is Not Worried About WWE NXT Losing To AEW Dynamite Every Week

Triple H Not Worried About Competition From AEW

Triple H Says WWE NXT Is Playing 'Long-Term Game' in Rivalry vs. AEW Dynamite

Unless you likes cherry picking and insert it in whatever that suits your naratives to make it seem WWE even consider AEW as a threat. From the beginning maybe, but as right now? Nah it's not a big threat as before.


----------



## The One

People so triggered in this thread.


----------



## Pippen94

kamaro011 said:


> Can you share your source regarding these, because Triple H once said he is not worried from AEW and he is playing a long term game.
> 
> Triple H Is Not Worried About WWE NXT Losing To AEW Dynamite Every Week
> 
> Triple H Not Worried About Competition From AEW
> 
> Triple H Says WWE NXT Is Playing 'Long-Term Game' in Rivalry vs. AEW Dynamite
> 
> Unless you likes cherry picking and insert it in your naratives to make it seem WWE even consider AEW as a threat. From the beginning maybe, but as right now? Nah it's not a big threat as before.


Actions speak - countered dynamite then overspent retaining past it wrestlers like Orton & Edge.


----------



## DJ Punk

Chip Chipperson said:


> First of all, there is a ratings thread and you've been around long enough to know this.
> 
> Second of all, nobody cares about demographic when the people who watch your show make between 0-34 thousand a year and the majority live at home or with housemates.
> 
> Third of all, overall ratings mean more and AEW only won that slightly
> 
> Fourth, AEW SHOULD be smoking NXT every week with the amount of money they've invested. You should know this Pippen.


I'm convinced Tony Khan could create the vaccine for Corona Virus and this dude^ would be already typing up an essay why it isn't that impressive and how AEW still sucks either way and going on and on about how bad of a promoter Tony is.


----------



## kamaro011

Pippen94 said:


> Actions speak - countered dynamite then overspent retaining past it wrestlers like Orton & Edge.


What the hell do you mean by this, countered by what? Bringing as much as star power to NXT to beat AEW just to prove point. Why they doing pointless thing like that to prove smark like yourself?

Like i said before NXT is a fucking C-Show and developmental brand, so is not worth as much as the main Brand like Raw and Smackdown. If they can beat AEW once in while the it's cool, if they not well is not worth anything to praise for but it makes you think that a friggen C-Show beat AEW even once on their main Flagship show does not bode well for the future of the show.


----------



## DammitChrist

DJ Punk said:


> I'm convinced Tony Khan could create the vaccine for Corona Virus and this dude^ would be already typing up an essay why it isn't that impressive and how AEW still sucks either way and going on and on about how bad of a promoter Tony is.


Man, imagine if Cody Rhodes helped him create the vaccine for COVID too


----------



## Pippen94

DJ Punk said:


> I'm convinced Tony Khan could create the vaccine for Corona Virus and this dude^ would be already typing up an essay why it isn't that impressive and how AEW still sucks either way and going on and on about how bad of a promoter Tony is.


Demo for vaccine is over 50s


kamaro011 said:


> What the hell do you mean by this, countered by what? Bringing as much as star power to NXT to beat AEW just to prove point. Why they doing pointless thing like that to prove smark like yourself?
> 
> Like i said before NXT is a fucking C-Show and developmental brand, so is not worth as much as the main Brand like Raw and Smackdown. If they can beat AEW once in while the it's cool, if they not well is not worth anything to praise for but it makes you think that a friggen C-Show beat AEW even once on their main Flagship show does not bode well for the future of the show.


Aew beat raw in key demo this week!!
It did so with wrestling competition which if you've been following trends accounts for about 25% of what you'd get otherwise.
Forget the c show - that war was won long time ago. Dynamite coming for flagship


----------



## zkorejo

Pippen94 said:


> Aew beat raw in key demo this week!!
> It did so with wrestling competition which if you've been following trends accounts for about 25% of what you'd get otherwise.
> Forget the c show - that war was won long time ago. Dynamite coming for flagship


I dont get too caught up in the ratings talks but it actually is very impressive for a year old company to do that to a 40 year old giant company.


----------



## La Parka

DJ Punk said:


> I'm convinced Tony Khan could create the vaccine for Corona Virus and this dude^ would be already typing up an essay why it isn't that impressive and how AEW still sucks either way and going on and on about how bad of a promoter Tony is.


Based on his booking and management of sports teams that vaccine would likely come with a side effect that would have a foot growing out of your forehead.


----------



## the_hound

anybody remember when demos didn't mater?


----------



## The Wood

Chip Chipperson said:


> If most AEW/hardcore wrestling fans weren't broke and living at their parents house it'd become a much more attractive demographic.
> 
> Nobody wants to advertise to a bunch of nerdy AEW fans unfortunately. WWE still offers the much more appealing fan base.


This is really important. The demo needs to be appealing. It also seems REALLY trivial to market to people based solely on age. Market research probably goes into ethnic backgrounds, sexual orientation and lots of other important factors when marketing a product.

For example, there’s a reason they’re pushing Xia Li and Boa in NXT. They obviously want a presence in China. Which Chinese wrestlers does AEW have? South American wrestlers? Even Europe is underrepresented.



Pippen94 said:


> No one wants to market to boomers!!


Don’t they? It would seem to me like they’d have a fair bit of money.



Pippen94 said:


> Aew already beating raw in key demos - they are not happy about this


I knew I saw someone sharing this shit. Last week Raw just about doubled or tripled AEW in these “key demos.” It wouldn’t surprise me if this is a complete lie.

I checked it out, and it turns out that AEW did get a 0.27 to Raw’s 0.24. They barely won in one category against a three hour show.

Raw won in real “key demo,” 0.51 to 0.37. 



Pippen94 said:


> Well Vince is 77 so there's a lot happening in today's wrestling he has no clue about - that's problem
> Aew's Halloween show outranked rival in ratings by some way - #11 to #25 I think but don't quote me. *You guys reaching to claim any type if victory*


Ah, the irony...



Pippen94 said:


> Actions speak - countered dynamite then overspent retaining past it wrestlers like Orton & Edge.


Two guys who were offered $3 million apiece.


----------



## kamaro011

My poorly rated wrestling show is better than your poorly rated wrestling show, it's quite embarrassing really. There is no "WAR". Only in the most AEW superfans that think like that.

I mean what war?
They are up against the developmental show.
They are acting like it's a goddamn Monday Night Wars about beating an developmental show. 
They are blowing millions on wages and talent on competing with a brand that was a game show only a ten year ago, you know with "Pro-Rookie" thing in case your forgot.
They are not competing with RAW or Smackdown.
If AEW start pulling in the figures that start to beat RAW, Smackdown, then Vince May notice. He will make sure the main brand will emulate of what AEW been doing and yet he's not doing that because even at this moment AEW is not a bigger threat as what they debuted before.


----------



## Not Lying

AEW beating RAW for he 18-34 ages is awesome.
It's my age tranch and I'm happy to see most wrestling fans my age can see what a shit-show RAW is and how much better AEW is. I hope this becomes a more common thing.


----------



## kingfrass44

The One said:


> People so triggered in this thread.


you aew faboys


----------



## The Wood

DJ Punk said:


> I'm convinced Tony Khan could create the vaccine for Corona Virus and this dude^ would be already typing up an essay why it isn't that impressive and how AEW still sucks either way and going on and on about how bad of a promoter Tony is.


Tony Khan hasn’t created a vaccine though, has he? Although many AEW super fans act as if he has. 



Pippen94 said:


> Demo for vaccine is over 50s
> 
> Aew beat raw in key demo this week!!
> It did so with wrestling competition which if you've been following trends accounts for about 25% of what you'd get otherwise.
> Forget the c show - that war was won long time ago. Dynamite coming for flagship


AEW did not beat Raw in the “key demo” this week. They allegedly beat them in 18-34. This is how it all becomes disinformation. 



The Definition of Technician said:


> AEW beating RAW for he 18-34 ages is awesome.
> It's my age tranch and I'm happy to see most wrestling fans my age can see what a shit-show RAW is and how much better AEW is. I hope this becomes a more common thing.


Dude, it was like 0.27 to 0.24.


----------



## SPCDRI

Well, you can say its a small stakes war all you want, but the fact of the matter is (did you read that in Triple H's voice?), AEW has smoked NXT on every metric on a pretty consistent basis. The shows should move to different days so both shows can get a boost of about 200,000 viewers and just do what they want to make the shows the best without concern for a silly war or harming this company or that company or any of that. 

NXT should be on Tuesday to replace the Tuesday Night Smackdown slot that WWE used to have, I really do believe that. 

There's no sense in cannibalizing each other anymore. Its just bad for both shows and bad for the fans because they don't book organically and in the most entertaining way, I feel, they are booking to try to "beat" the other show.


----------



## Aedubya

The ignore button is fantastic


----------



## kamaro011

SPCDRI said:


> Well, you can say its a small stakes war all you want, but the fact of the matter is (did you read that in Triple H's voice?), AEW has smoked NXT on every metric on a pretty consistent basis. The shows should move to different days so both shows can get a boost of about 200,000 viewers and just do what they want to make the shows the best without concern for a silly war or harming this company or that company or any of that.
> 
> NXT should be on Tuesday to replace the Tuesday Night Smackdown slot that WWE used to have, I really do believe that.
> 
> There's no sense in cannibalizing each other anymore. Its just bad for both shows and bad for the fans because they don't book organically and in the most entertaining way, I feel, they are booking to try to "beat" the other show.


Um, NXT is already have Wednesday Slot before AEW Dynamite also taking that slot you know that right?

If anything it should be AEW Dynamite that move their show to Tuesday so they will be able to grow without competing against WWE, but it seems they want to chose particular slot for a chance beating WWE Brand Show even that said show is just C-Show Developmental brand. They must be feel really proud for that.


----------



## Qudhufo

"B-bbbut mUh kEy dEmO REEEEEE” 

Who gives a shit about demo? A show getting 700k viewers on average each week is nothing to brag about.


----------



## 304418

kamaro011 said:


> Um, NXT is already have Wednesday Slot before AEW Dynamite also taking that slot you know that right?
> 
> If anything it should be AEW Dynamite that move their show to Tuesday so they will be able to grow without competing against WWE, but it seems they want to chose particular slot for a chance beating WWE Brand Show even that said show is just C-Show Developmental brand. They must be feel really proud for that.


So, NBA moves to Wednesdays then too? Since that’s why AEW is not airing on Tuesdays. Otherwise, they would be preempted a lot during the NBA season.


----------



## Cult03

the_hound said:


> anybody remember when demos didn't mater?


Ah 2019. What a year that was.


----------



## kamaro011

Verbatim17 said:


> So, NBA moves to Wednesdays then too? Since that’s why AEW is not airing on Tuesdays. Otherwise, they would be preempted a lot during the NBA season.


Well i'm not from US so i don't knowledgeable enough for Major Sport League such as NBA have their time slot in that day. It's still AEW fault, they know NXT have already that day slot as their spot. They can chose any other day that is not direct competion to WWE or Major Sport League US such as NBA. Instead they chose direct opposition into the so called "Wednesday Night War" to NXT, where everytime they beat NXT in term rating. They start to act it's the biggest thing ever exits since the days of Monday Night War, it's embarrasing really.


----------



## The Wood

PushCrymeTyme said:


> aew did a humongous .37 in 18-49
> tnt is going to be salivating at the advertisers opportunities


I’m willing to bet it will all be eyeglasses and heart medication still.


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> Not going to happen when you continue to shove Jericho and Cody down the viewers’ throats. It’s kind of amazing that Moxley draws big numbers and can’t get more TV time.


To be fair, without Jericho this company would be doing 500k views from the get go. Hinting at Punk and having Jericho were the only draws at the beginning, without them they'd be getting ROH views because that's all they'd be.


----------



## The Wood

SPCDRI said:


> Well, you can say its a small stakes war all you want, but the fact of the matter is (did you read that in Triple H's voice?), AEW has smoked NXT on every metric on a pretty consistent basis. The shows should move to different days so both shows can get a boost of about 200,000 viewers and just do what they want to make the shows the best without concern for a silly war or harming this company or that company or any of that.
> 
> NXT should be on Tuesday to replace the Tuesday Night Smackdown slot that WWE used to have, I really do believe that.
> 
> There's no sense in cannibalizing each other anymore. Its just bad for both shows and bad for the fans because they don't book organically and in the most entertaining way, I feel, they are booking to try to "beat" the other show.


The WWE aren’t going to move NXT because they don’t want AEW to get those 200k viewers. This keeps them capped. If anyone moves, it’s far more likely it will be AEW to go after those 200k since TNT is splitting the ad revenues and doesn’t have a Monday Night Raw.

When AEW moves, WWE will just fill that slot too. They’ve got the resources to be able to afford putting these shows on for free, which is all the networks _really_ care about at the end of the day — their bottom line.

That show will be more heavyweight than NXT, so it will almost definitely crush AEW. They’d be getting 600k-700k on a good week versus something that should easily crack 1 million. Then NXT will be unopposed and get about 800k every week.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

AEW is killing it. Every indicator shows AEW on the up. Their social following is increasing. More people are watching compared to earlier this year.
Let’s go AEW.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

the_hound said:


> anybody remember when demos didn't mater?


You must be old, because now you are talking about the 80s and 90s Key demo and total audience: What are they and how much do they matter? - Wrestlenomics


----------



## Not Lying

The Wood said:


> Dude, it was like 0.27 to 0.24.


LOL. i know it's hard for you to understand because you are an absolutist who has no idea how things work, but AEW already beating RAW, the dominant wrestling show, in any demo/age group is already impressive. That's a fact, they don't have the star-power, reputation, decades of fans of loyalty that WWE/RAW does. The fact that they are close to RAW and beat them with younger people, is already highly impressive. If these fans AEW is getting now stick around to when they're 50+, that's how ratings go up, by building a loyal fan-base and continuing to appeal to younger people, the fact they're lready doing this 1 year is impressive.


----------



## Cult03

I've asked this before and never really got a response. Why do we care so much about an arbitrary and inaccurate American number of viewers in a specific age range in 2020? Surely there's better ways to judge which show wins, if we have to at all? Half of the people bragging about a win every week aren't even from the US. I have stated from the beginning that these ratings don't make any sense, even pointing out that NXT is shown live in more countries therefore getting more viewers. It's a shit system that should only matter to the networks and advertisers. We are neither of those and therefore it does not matter to us. 

I'm not congratulating AEW on winning viewership in a country that I regularly laugh at for being ridiculous.


----------



## thorn123

Keep up the good work AEW. Let’s crack a million regularly then worry about competing with Raws overall viewership


----------



## 304418

@kamaro011 AEW will have competition regardless as to what night they pick.

Monday – Raw & NFL Monday Night Football

Tuesday – NBA & Impact Wrestling

Wednesday – NXT

Thursday – NFL Thursday Night Football

Friday – Smackdown

Saturday – UFC Fight Nights/PPVs & hockey

Sunday – monthly WWE PPVs

AEW competing with NXT on Wednesdays makes that night must see tv for wrestling. Which indirectly means that attention isn’t drawn to Raw or Smackdown. Or Impact for that matter.

Unless your saying AEW should have a Tuesday Night War with Impact instead, and make that night the must see tv night for wrestling.


----------



## Pippen94

Optikk is All Elite said:


> You must be old, because now you are talking about the 80s and 90s Key demo and total audience: What are they and how much do they matter? - Wrestlenomics




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291492502847942656


----------



## Pippen94

Cult03 said:


> I've asked this before and never really got a response. Why do we care so much about an arbitrary and inaccurate American number of viewers in a specific age range in 2020? Surely there's better ways to judge which show wins, if we have to at all? Half of the people bragging about a win every week aren't even from the US. I have stated from the beginning that these ratings don't make any sense, even pointing out that NXT is shown live in more countries therefore getting more viewers. It's a shit system that should only matter to the networks and advertisers. We are neither of those and therefore it does not matter to us.
> 
> I'm not congratulating AEW on winning viewership in a country that I regularly laugh at for being ridiculous.


Sounding like trump now


----------



## Cult03

Pippen94 said:


> Sounding like trump now


Oh fuck off, I said this on day one. I don't care what other people like because I think for myself. Large viewership doesn't make it better. Out of curiosity, how are you getting TNT in Australia? Also @The Definition of Technician how are you getting TNT in France? Of course you won't respond to the actual content of my response but will respond trying to be insulting because you simply don't have the answers and you never have.


----------



## kamaro011

Pippen94 said:


> Sounding like trump now


Are we really doing this, any kind of opposition view must be judged as us political scene?


----------



## Cult03

kamaro011 said:


> Are we really doing this, any kind of opposition view must be judged as us political scene?


Have you not had the pleasure of meeting Pippen yet? He either insults people or disappears for a few days when asked a difficult question. He doesn't do discussions. Most of his 1500 posts are yelling "trolllll" at anyone that disagrees or questions him.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Pippen94 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291492502847942656


whoop there it is.

people are skewing the facts to suit their agenda. demos have _always_ been important. why they are still trying to argue that it's not is similar to the trump supporters or anti-vaxxers arguing their cause when their causes are conspiracies and are proven false


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> To be fair, without Jericho this company would be doing 500k views from the get go. Hinting at Punk and having Jericho were the only draws at the beginning, without them they'd be getting ROH views because that's all they'd be.


I totally agree and still love Jericho. He’s pissed me off with the ego-stroking and comedy shit, absolutely dragging the show down, but I don’t hate him.

But he needs to take a break from the show.


----------



## The Wood

Optikk is All Elite said:


> You must be old, because now you are talking about the 80s and 90s Key demo and total audience: What are they and how much do they matter? - Wrestlenomics


Didn’t one of the guys who ran that website actually end up working for AEW? Yeah, no thanks.

Can you find me a contemporary source outside the wrestling world that still places this much emphasis on Nielsen ratings in general, let alone the demographicAn actual source, not just “Well, duh.” 



The Definition of Technician said:


> LOL. i know it's hard for you to understand because you are an absolutist who has no idea how things work, but AEW already beating RAW, the dominant wrestling show, in any demo/age group is already impressive. That's a fact, they don't have the star-power, reputation, decades of fans of loyalty that WWE/RAW does. The fact that they are close to RAW and beat them with younger people, is already highly impressive. If these fans AEW is getting now stick around to when they're 50+, that's how ratings go up, by building a loyal fan-base and continuing to appeal to younger people, the fact they're lready doing this 1 year is impressive.


Raw is a terrible show that has turned off most of its fans too. They have Jericho, JR and Mox. Which show can you name enjoys widespread success in terms of viewership now because they have built up a loyal base over decades? That’s a ridiculous proposition. Most shows don’t even make it to a decade. 



Pippen94 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291492502847942656


Yeah, they cancel them because they only attract hardcore wrestling fans.


----------



## Cult03

Optikk is All Elite said:


> whoop there it is.
> 
> people are skewing the facts to suit their agenda. demos have _always_ been important. why they are still trying to argue that it's not is similar to the trump supporters or anti-vaxxers arguing their cause when their causes are conspiracies and are proven false


Important to who though? Don't try and spin this into a conspiracy thing because that's bullshit. The demographic stuff is more akin to Trump saying he won with less viewers which is exactly what AEW does when NXT had more viewers. That's your side. 

You guys and your attempted spin on everything.. Can't have an honest chat with you hey. I'd say the same if NXT (which I haven't watched in weeks) won by a landslide too. Celebrating ratings, especially ratings you don't add to from Australia makes no sense.


----------



## Cult03

bdon said:


> I totally agree and still love Jericho. He’s pissed me off with the ego-stroking and comedy shit, absolutely dragging the show down, but I don’t hate him.
> 
> But he needs to take a break from the show.


100% agree. As you know he was my absolute favourite wrestler ever and even I am sick of him. I imagine if Covid didn't hit his tour would have gone longer and it would have been a nice break for us all.


----------



## Pippen94

Cult03 said:


> Have you not had the pleasure of meeting Pippen yet? He either insults people or disappears for a few days when asked a difficult question. He doesn't do discussions. Most of his 1500 posts are yelling "trolllll" at anyone that disagrees or questions him.


Happy to debate but if ppl keep mentioning ratings from years ago or how demos don't matter or wonder if ratings system even accurate then I got better things to do


----------



## kamaro011

Cult03 said:


> Have you not had the pleasure of meeting Pippen yet? He either insults people or disappears for a few days when asked a difficult question. He doesn't do discussions. Most of his 1500 posts are yelling "trolllll" at anyone that disagrees or questions him.


Well i'm hasn't visiting this forum for more than four years, only just past few weeks i'm recently active again. Such disappointment if a general AEW fans is just like that, no different than WWE fans that refuse to see company failling because as longs it's not WWE they will take anything even a bad one as good product regardless the quality.


----------



## Cult03

Pippen94 said:


> Happy to debate but if ppl keep mentioning ratings from years ago or how demos don't matter or wonder if ratings system even accurate then I got better things to do


When have you ever been happy to debate? That's not at all what you do here, Pippen. Demos don't matter and the ratings system is inaccurate, outdated and only matters to networks and sponsors. If it matters to us at all you'd be able to explain how, right? And you'd also be able to brag about it if your viewing habits were connected to Dynamite's number, which it isn't. So again, Pippen. Why do we care so much about an arbitrary and inaccurate American number of viewers in a specific age range in 2020?


----------



## WWFNoMercyExpert

Are you guys really splitting hairs like this for an obvious fan war thread? There is a ratings thread but this is obviously to mock & antagonize WWE fans.
And the reason non-American fans like high ratings is because it acts as a barometer for attendance and other support in its own backyard, people enjoy seeing a product they enjoy do well financially.


----------



## Not Lying

Cult03 said:


> Oh fuck off, I said this on day one. I don't care what other people like because I think for myself. Large viewership doesn't make it better. Out of curiosity, how are you getting TNT in Australia? Also @The Definition of Technician how are you getting TNT in France? Of course you won't respond to the actual content of my response but will respond trying to be insulting because you simply don't have the answers and you never have.


this your lastest attempt at turning AEWs good stuff and spining it into bad? 😂 
"Why do we care"
Why do you care to post so much about a company you think is 
1- terrible product
2- Small and not growing 

Quite the dilemma, we'll never know. 

Now that i've shown again what little hypocrite you are.

I don't get AEW live. It's a 5 day delay. If I shouldn't be commenting on the ratings then neither should the 3 little angry aussis.


----------



## WWFNoMercyExpert

"Why do you care about ratings?" takes me back to the punk mark days.


----------



## Cult03

The Definition of Technician said:


> this your lastest attempt at turning AEWs good stuff and spining it into bad? 😂
> "Why do we care"
> Why do you care to post so much about a company you think is
> 1- terrible product
> 2- Small and not growing
> 
> Quite the dilemma, we'll never know.
> 
> Now that i've shown again what little hypocrite you are.
> 
> I don't get AEW live. It's a 5 day delay. If I shouldn't be commenting on the ratings then neither should the 3 little angry aussis.


Would be a wonderful rebuttal if I hadn't asked similar questions a year ago, genius.

1. It is often a terrible product and needs to improve
2. Never said that

Shown again? Haha you're delusional, the only time you've shown anyone to be anything was when you had a hissy fit and insulted a bunch of people, proving what a child you could be.

Also fuck I wish I could avoid answering questions the way AEW fans do when they get asked something difficult. Never a straight answer and it always has to be "you have an agenda" instead of just answering. Now are we done discussing me and why I asked the question. Can we move onto the actual fucking question?


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Happy to debate but if ppl keep mentioning ratings from years ago or how demos don't matter or wonder if ratings system even accurate then I got better things to do


There are definitely questions to be asked about the ratings. CBS was thinking about dropping their subscription to Nielsen a few years back. Cult03 has also asked the question about how you can actually tell who is watching on what TV? What if a young person watches it at their grandparents’ house? That counts as a 50+.

Nielsen themselves say to allow for a 10% margin of error with their ratings. That means when you get the numbers back, the ones that Alvarez and Meltzer treat as power levels, you can basically say it’s in a range between two numbers. 850k could realistically be between 765k and 935k. 630k would put NXT in the 567-693k range. This isn’t an exact science, Pip.


Cult03 said:


> Important to who though? Don't try and spin this into a conspiracy thing because that's bullshit. The demographic stuff is more akin to Trump saying he won with less viewers which is exactly what AEW does when NXT had more viewers. That's your side.
> 
> You guys and your attempted spin on everything.. Can't have an honest chat with you hey. I'd say the same if NXT (which I haven't watched in weeks) won by a landslide too. Celebrating ratings, especially ratings you don't add to from Australia makes no sense.


You’re absolutely right about the ratings being very US-centric and about thinking about what we really take from them. I do understand people caring about the business side, and these numbers are still weirdly our best metric for discussing those sorts of things. You’d honestly think they’d have something more accurate these days.

Worldwide popularity is something that is not reflected in these discussions. Nor are what would be, in my opinion, more relevant demographics (race, marital status, financial, cultural). Ratings also don’t mean a show is good or bad, and it doesn’t tell you what impression it gave people. You may have just insulted 850k people and now a fraction of them will never buy a PPV again.

They also don’t guarantee that you ARE getting that advertising revenue either. Other factors go into that.

They’re a tool, but they’re only part of a puzzle and interpreted way too stringently and with incomplete data.


----------



## Not Lying

Cult03 said:


> Would be a wonderful rebuttal if I hadn't asked similar questions a year ago, genius.
> 
> 1. It is often a terrible product and needs to improve
> 2. Never said that
> 
> Shown again? Haha you're delusional, the only time you've shown anyone to be anything was when you had a hissy fit and insulted a bunch of people, proving what a child you could be.
> 
> Also fuck I wish I could avoid answering questions the way AEW fans do when they get asked something difficult. Never a straight answer and it always has to be "you have an agenda" instead of just answering. Now are we done discussing me and why I asked the question. Can we move onto the actual fucking question?


Nah, I've proven you and your little squad have nothing better to do than shit on a new company and make up excuses in your head, present them as fact based on "what if" scenarios.
I've already block Chip for an inexcusable stupid post.
Once you say something as near as stupid as him, you're out as well, cause once you're proven you don't know how to think, you have no credibility to stand on. This latest response of yours is the most pathetic.

What is your question? Why do we care?
Ask Woods then why he cares to talk so much about ratings and ones from 20-30 years ago for american TV to compare now 😂


----------



## WWFNoMercyExpert

I'm curious, what is a good metric for popularity then? I have seen facebook likes used, other social media stuff like geotagging tweets about it, even youtube views. But that doesn’t work because only a fraction of the population use most of those services.
In the anime community, people used BD pre-orders from amazon as a barometer for popularity.
Similar to nielsen ratings that was.


----------



## Cult03

The Definition of Technician said:


> Nah, I've proven you and your little squad have nothing better to do than shit on a new company and make up excuses in your head, present them as fact based on "what if" scenarios.
> I've already block Chip for an inexcusable stupid post.
> Once you say something as near as stupid as him, you're out as well, cause once you're proven you don't know how to think, you have no credibility to stand on. This latest response of yours is the most pathetic.
> 
> What is your question? Why do we care?
> Ask Woods then why he cares to talk so much about ratings and ones from 20-30 years ago for american TV to compare now 😂


What's with the victim complex AEW fans have? Nobody was wishing AEW would fail. We wanted them to be great, they're average at best and we aren't excited about average so we get called haters? Fuck you, AEW should be better and should be getting more viewers in your bullshit ratings war. 

@The Wood why do you care to talk about ratings from 20-30 years ago? Is it because you had higher expectations for AEW and want wrestling to be somewhat cool, like it used to be? Instead you get dorks doing flips and cunts on the internet who don't actually want to have an honest discussion about what this company is doing? Because same, mate. 

We should settle for average, because when you live in your parents basement and have nothing better going on in your life (not aimed at anyone specific, but AEW fans based on that Reddit demographic thread), average is fucking great.


----------



## bdon

Cult03 said:


> 100% agree. As you know he was my absolute favourite wrestler ever and even I am sick of him. I imagine if Covid didn't hit his tour would have gone longer and it would have been a nice break for us all.


Yep. He’s clearly bored and needing to get away from the business for a bit.


----------



## Cult03

WWFNoMercyExpert said:


> I'm curious, what is a good metric for popularity then? I have seen facebook likes used, other social media stuff like geotagging tweets about it, even youtube views. But that doesn’t work because only a fraction of the population use most of those services.
> In the anime community, people used BD pre-orders from amazon as a barometer for popularity.
> Similar to nielsen ratings that was.


Money made, overall viewers worldwide, how much you enjoy the show specifically, social media. There's lot's of pieces to the puzzle. But taking one very specific part of them such as an arbitrary and inaccurate American number of viewers in a specific age range doesn't tell a full story. It's dishonest and easily spun by people like Meltzer who have actual agendas.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

WWFNoMercyExpert said:


> I'm curious, what is a good metric for popularity then? I have seen facebook likes used, other social media stuff like geotagging tweets about it, even youtube views. But that doesn’t work because only a fraction of the population use most of those services.
> In the anime community, people used BD pre-orders from amazon as a barometer for popularity.
> Similar to nielsen ratings that was.


im curious where you understand that “only a fraction of the population” use services, like Youtube. Are you able to point me to something concrete?

websites like Statista suggest YouTube is used by the majority of the US population. I’ve seen statistics, suggesting 70% of the male US population access YouTube.

in the current day era, there’s not one service that accounts for popularity. The number of cable subscribers is decreasing every year and that’s a proven fact.
An accumulation of cable, on demand services, streams, social media following, merchandise sales. That’s how to truly measure anything’s popularity in 2020 and for the foreseeable future.


----------



## alex0816

imagine getting so mad at someone talking about AEW ratings.

"AEW fans live in basements, don't have jobs, are stupid, fuck them"

yet all these people who don't like AEW, continue to watch most of the time only to complain, spend most of their day responding to this forum......seems like they're the ones with no jobs, no hobbies, and are, in fact, the dorks


----------



## WWFNoMercyExpert

Optikk is All Elite said:


> im curious where you understand that “only a fraction of the population” use services, like Youtube. Are you able to point me to something concrete?
> 
> websites like Statista suggest YouTube is used by the majority of the US population. I’ve seen statistics, suggesting 70% of the male US population access YouTube.


That was more aimed at the geotagging tweets thing, and I don’t know if youtube can really be considered a social platform anymore considering it's not a more robust version of MySpace and apparently few viewers actually leave comments. Youtube rarely has full events either, the NBA highlights trend on youtube but they apparently struggle financially. Im not really a ball sports guy but you get what I mean.
Facebook is fair, but only 45% of people use it.


----------



## WWFNoMercyExpert

alex0816 said:


> imagine getting so mad at someone talking about AEW ratings.
> 
> "AEW fans live in basements, don't have jobs, are stupid, fuck them"
> 
> yet all these people who don't like AEW, continue to watch most of the time only to complain, spend most of their day responding to this forum......seems like they're the ones with no jobs, no hobbies, and are, in fact, the dorks


The thing that gets me is that it's always a Reddit thread they point to, as if Redditors aren't considered dorks in every community.


----------



## fabi1982

Its funny how an 11+m NFL game is „no competition“, but a 640k NXT is...

Honestly these threads are the reason why the „hateful 5“ (more turning into double digits as of late) are arguing these things, because its stupid and it is trolling at its finest levels. And I dont get what guys like OP are getting out of these threads besides sitting in moms basement and laughing while having their pants down?! And you can see when OP is trolling, as I see perfectly written content, when he is not trolling, but „AEW god, NXT trash“ sentences, when he is trolling. 

But hey, dont think about what others write, just say the „haters“ are a sad group, because you finished 7th when the „competition“ finishes 56th. An lets wait and see next weeks ratings and dont hate if someone posts a thread that AEW lost 100k and is doomed, when you highfive these stupid threads...


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DJ Punk said:


> I'm convinced Tony Khan could create the vaccine for Corona Virus and this dude^ would be already typing up an essay why it isn't that impressive and how AEW still sucks either way and going on and on about how bad of a promoter Tony is.


You can use my name, don't pretend you don't know it lol.

IF Tony got a coronavirus vaccine done I'd say "Thank you Tony" and praise him as a medical professional. I have nothing against the guy personally I just hate what he's done to professional wrestling.

How would him finding a cure for coronavirus make AEW better anyway? I'm not biased like that. Tony could cure cancer and gift me 10 million dollars and I'd say "Tony is a top bloke but he's shit at this wrestling stuff"



the_hound said:


> anybody remember when demos didn't mater?


Demos always mattered but nobody ever competed with demos until AEW came along and it's embarrassing.



kamaro011 said:


> They are blowing millions on wages and talent on competing with a brand that was a game show only a ten year ago, you know with "Pro-Rookie" thing in case your forgot.


This is a point I like to bring up in these threads always. NXT roster might be getting 5 million a year between them all whilst AEW is spending 20-30 million on wages. If I was running big time wrestling shows I'd be much happier spending 5 million dollars and losing by 100-200 thousand a week as opposed to being the guys winning by 100-200 thousand but spending at least quadruple to win.



Cult03 said:


> I've asked this before and never really got a response. Why do we care so much about an arbitrary and inaccurate American number of viewers in a specific age range in 2020? Surely there's better ways to judge which show wins, if we have to at all? Half of the people bragging about a win every week aren't even from the US. I have stated from the beginning that these ratings don't make any sense, even pointing out that NXT is shown live in more countries therefore getting more viewers. It's a shit system that should only matter to the networks and advertisers. We are neither of those and therefore it does not matter to us.


I always recall the time I went to the sports bar at a local RSL club here in somewhat regional NSW and saw NXT on the screen behind the bar right next to Boxing and English Premier League football. I didn't ask but I bet they never air AEW there and I doubt they even know what it is.

Little things like that show that NXT is on a much bigger level than AEW.



The Definition of Technician said:


> I've already block Chip for an inexcusable stupid post.


For those wondering I asked Mr. Technician why he was upset at my "agenda" of looking for good wrestling. He got upset and placed me on ignore because he couldn't answer.



alex0816 said:


> yet all these people who don't like AEW, continue to watch most of the time only to complain, spend most of their day responding to this forum......seems like they're the ones with no jobs, no hobbies, and are, in fact, the dorks


Bro, keep up to date. None of us really watch anymore, out of all of the Angry Aussies I think Cult03 watches highlights, I'm on another break because of just how bad it is and The Wood hasn't watched in months. Two Sheds and Hammerstone are our only two mates who watch and they tell us whether to bother or not which is awesome because I trust those guys and can just watch what they say is good.

It's also been revealed on this forum that Cult03 works as a teacher, I have a full time job and run an independent promotion here in Sydney whilst The Wood is employed also.

We're allowed to be critical and hope for better.


----------



## Aedubya

Thats a paddlin'


----------



## Not Lying

Cult03 said:


> What's with the victim complex AEW fans have? *Nobody was wishing AEW would fail.* We wanted them to be great, they're average at best and we aren't excited about average so we get called haters? Fuck you, AEW should be better and should be getting more viewers in your bullshit ratings war.
> 
> @The Wood why do you care to talk about ratings from 20-30 years ago? Is it because you had higher expectations for AEW and want wrestling to be somewhat cool, like it used to be? Instead you get dorks doing flips and cunts on the internet who don't actually want to have an honest discussion about what this company is doing? Because same, mate.
> 
> We should settle for average, because when you live in your parents basement and have nothing better going on in your life (not aimed at anyone specific, but AEW fans based on that Reddit demographic thread), average is fucking great.


incredibly sad 😂 Some stuff are just obvious to people no matter how much you hide it.

Nobody's settling, we all have our complaints, it's just obvious who here says smart things for improvement and who says things in a bitter non-intelligent way.



fabi1982 said:


> Its funny how an 11+m NFL game is „no competition“, but a 640k NXT is...
> 
> Honestly these threads are the reason why the „hateful 5“ (more turning into double digits as of late) are arguing these things, because its stupid and it is trolling at its finest levels. And I dont get what guys like OP are getting out of these threads besides sitting in moms basement and laughing while having their pants down?! And you can see when OP is trolling, as I see perfectly written content, when he is not trolling, but „AEW god, NXT trash“ sentences, when he is trolling.
> 
> But hey, dont think about what others write, just say the „haters“ are a sad group, because you finished 7th when the „competition“ finishes 56th. An lets wait and see next weeks ratings and dont hate if someone posts a thread that AEW lost 100k *and is doomed*, when you highfive these stupid threads...



That's why we laugh. Fans get to celebrate the big wins like beating RAW in 18-34 demo and destroying NXT, while haters rejoice at a decline for a couple of weeks thinking it's the end of AEW (when there's no need to rejoice, just stop watching, because when ratings go back up, and they will, we don't even have full fans back, you will look even worse).
Any more embarassing takes Fabi?


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> Nah, I've proven you and your little squad have nothing better to do than shit on a new company and make up excuses in your head, present them as fact based on "what if" scenarios.
> I've already block Chip for an inexcusable stupid post.
> Once you say something as near as stupid as him, you're out as well, cause once you're proven you don't know how to think, you have no credibility to stand on. This latest response of yours is the most pathetic.
> 
> What is your question? Why do we care?
> Ask Woods then why he cares to talk so much about ratings and ones from 20-30 years ago for american TV to compare now 😂


You sling a lot of mud and make a lot of false statements about people for someone who professes to have such clarity of thought. Very disingenuous about me talking about ratings from years ago. What I’ve said on the subject is that a lot of lapsed fans still have cable and can technically watch, which is why numbers like 3 million wouldn’t be impossible if the content was gripping. 



WWFNoMercyExpert said:


> I'm curious, what is a good metric for popularity then? I have seen facebook likes used, other social media stuff like geotagging tweets about it, even youtube views. But that doesn’t work because only a fraction of the population use most of those services.
> In the anime community, people used BD pre-orders from amazon as a barometer for popularity.
> Similar to nielsen ratings that was.


It’s probably an amalgamation if things. Viewership is no doubt part of it, but so is a generally positive vibe and people out there in the world talking about it, really engaging with the product, etc.


----------



## WWFNoMercyExpert

Chip Chipperson said:


> I always recall the time I went to the sports bar at a local RSL club here in somewhat regional NSW and saw NXT on the screen behind the bar right next to Boxing and English Premier League football. I didn't ask but I bet they never air AEW there and I doubt they even know what it is.
> 
> Little things like that show that NXT is on a much bigger level than AEW.


It's bizarre to see that there are places that still consider pro wrestling a sport. I don't think I have ever seen it at a sports bar, and I live in a place where wrestling is historically popular (and actually still is considering the recency of some of the events, plus a backyard promo) and even more interesting than it's not RAW or SD. I have seen some positive buzz about NXT but I thought it was mostly in the wrestling bubble.
Also, must be brutal avoiding spoilers for the big European leagues down there, with how much those kinds of sports fans pop on social media.


----------



## JeSeGaN

They beat a developmental, 3rd rate wrestling show...

Congratulations!


----------



## Carter84

Chip Chipperson said:


> First of all, there is a ratings thread and you've been around long enough to know this.
> 
> Second of all, nobody cares about demographic when the people who watch your show make between 0-34 thousand a year and the majority live at home or with housemates.
> 
> Third of all, overall ratings mean more and AEW only won that slightly
> 
> Fourth, AEW SHOULD be smoking NXT every week with the amount of money they've invested. You should know this Pippen.


Chip stop it man, you to pip. If u two don't get on fine, tried to get u and him, to see the bigger picture, stop spoiling it for others, getting fecking pathetic now.


----------



## Carter84

The One said:


> People so triggered in this thread.


Just a fecking bit, it's sad.


----------



## Carter84

Chip Chipperson said:


> If most AEW/hardcore wrestling fans weren't broke and living at their parents house it'd become a much more attractive demographic.
> 
> Nobody wants to advertise to a bunch of nerdy AEW fans unfortunately. WWE still offers the much more appealing fan base.


I don't live at home, stop generalizing all AEW fans as one and the same.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Carter84 said:


> I don't live at home, stop generalizing all AEW fans as one and the same.


I'm going off the Squared Circle Reddit (The biggest wrestling forum in the world). I think most of us on this forum are doing better than those guys because we're generally a bit older.


----------



## Schwartzxz

10 years ago when ratings were already bad RAW got as many viewers as AEW, NXT, RAW and SD! combined get now. its pathetic. and you guys still argue about ratings of either show.


----------



## Geeee

AEW's rating is not really that impressive. The bigger story is how low these NXT ratings are. We're definitely never getting a main roster WWE product that's more like NXT


----------



## fabi1982

The Definition of Technician said:


> That's why we laugh. Fans get to celebrate the big wins like beating RAW in 18-34 demo and destroying NXT, while haters rejoice at a decline for a couple of weeks thinking it's the end of AEW (when there's no need to rejoice, just stop watching, because when ratings go back up, and they will, we don't even have full fans back, you will look even worse).
> Any more embarassing takes Fabi?


See, comments like that I mean. Where is my comment embarassing? What is your take on that? Do you guys are just here because you want to see someone beating some part of WWE, or do you want a good product out of AEW? Because you know like 9month ago a 850 wouldnt bring up such threads and also a 0.37 demo would be expected, not paraded. So does that mean „AEW fans“ just lost hope and party every little thing Dave mentions? Seems like you really lowered your own bar. Because the way I read OPs and your comments is more like „haha NXT“ and not like „good AEW“, because you know these numbers are nothing to write home about. 

And what does a 18-34 demo win every time there are more than 10m people watching NFL matter to AEW? The number is still tiny and nothing advertisers will throw money at TNT. What do a couple 1000 of these fans actually bring to AEW, besides you guys can parade it around the times WWE has to much of a competition on Mondays. And dont get me started about the report about the wrestling fans earning wise.

It is totally fine and right to party these things in the ratings thread, but doing threads like this and commenting like you do really paint you in a very sad picture. But hey, if you like being seen as such, then go for it.


----------



## The Wood

Geeee said:


> AEW's rating is not really that impressive. The bigger story is how low these NXT ratings are. We're definitely never getting a main roster WWE product that's more like NXT


I think NXT has become more like the main roster. It’s the third leg, it isn’t going to attract the same number of people without emphasis pushing it above the other two. It is presented as small-time and the general WWE audience doesn’t care about it.

I don’t think it means Triple H can’t book or that the NXT approach is doomed. It’s a product of circumstances.


----------



## LongPig666

Not surprising really, for me AEW are improving on already very consistent shows; story lines are following logic and sense with new angles appearing every week, we're getting good twists and turns, good variety, women's wrestling is improving, new wrestlers are being introduced and the promo's AEW are banging out are second to none. Yes, we had that musical but that seems forgotten. Generally speaking Dynamite is good to watch from start to finish.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Wow, they beat WWE's C Show, what an achievement. They'll never crack 1 million regularly, so they'll forever have their little hard-core fan base, that's it.


----------



## WWFNoMercyExpert

WWE needs to get Paul Bearer to swim in orange juice to get the AEW audience


----------



## Fearless Viper

Correct me if I'm wrong. But Monday Nights tend to have a stiff competition and Raw still ends up on top 10 compare to Wednesday nights.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Also Jesus Christ you really realize what a bunch of soft cunts you lot are sometimes, must be a Non Australian thing, most non Australians are fucking soft these days though. Not everyone likes AEW, I want them to do well, I like quite a few guys on the roster, but the show still fucking sucks plain and simple, NXT sucks, AEW sucks, RAW sucks, the only watchable show right now is SmackDown. People will do anything to say that there's a legitimate war, shut the fuck up, it's more like a pillow fight than anything.


----------



## The Wood

It’s stiffer competition and Raw is three hours. This stretches it out further, but also makes it way more valuable when it does hit. When you take the first two hours of Raw, you usually see a pretty notable increase in terms of viewership. I think last week’s show got 1.6 million viewers or something. But when you didn’t count that anchoring third hour, they were at 1.75 million viewers. Not groundbreaking by wrestling standards, but quite a bit more. Raw gets handicapped by its reality.


----------



## WWFNoMercyExpert

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Also Jesus Christ you really realize what a bunch of soft cunts you lot are sometimes, must be a Non Australian thing, most non Australians are fucking soft these days though. Not everyone likes AEW, I want them to do well, I like quite a few guys on the roster, but the show still fucking sucks plain and simple, NXT sucks, AEW sucks, RAW sucks, the only watchable show right now is SmackDown. People will do anything to say that there's a legitimate war, shut the fuck up, it's more like a pillow fight than anything.


Its not even framed as a war for the most part, it's just internet tribalism at this point.


----------



## 3venflow

LongPig666 said:


> Not surprising really, for me AEW are improving on already very consistent shows; story lines are following logic and sense with new angles appearing every week, we're getting good twists and turns, good variety, women's wrestling is improving, new wrestlers are being introduced and the promo's AEW are banging out are second to none. Yes, we had that musical but that seems forgotten. Generally speaking Dynamite is good to watch from start to finish.


Agreed. I still look forward to Dynamite every week, which is the longest run of this happening since RAW around the turn of the millenium. It's a very imperfect product, but still the best weekly TV from an American wrestling company I've seen in some years.

Judging from the quote messages, the ratings thread - like the last one - has been hijacked again because we're not allowed to say nice things.

It's their best rating since September and considering every show is 'awful' in the eyes of the aforementioned people, surely they have been doing something right in recent weeks.

It's still a better rating than 5 of the 12 Dynamites in 2019, including the opening three shows which had the 'new show' bump (1m+). So while they may not have grown their audience much, they have retained much of it and have a sustainable fan base which is a good thing, especially given the unforeseen obstacles (pandemic, travel restrictions) that has affected the industry as a whole. The industry leader, WWE, has continued to lose TV viewers and RAW was down 37% from 2019 a couple of months ago.

As for demos not being important... the industry websites ranks ratings by the 'key demo' rather than total numbers and it is the first metric in their rundowns. That says it all and it is really an invented argument that they are irrelevant.





__





UPDATED: SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Top 150 Wednesday Cable Originals & Network Finals: 11.18.2020 | Showbuzz Daily







www.showbuzzdaily.com


----------



## TKO Wrestling

kamaro011 said:


> Um, NXT is already have Wednesday Slot before AEW Dynamite also taking that slot you know that right?
> 
> If anything it should be AEW Dynamite that move their show to Tuesday so they will be able to grow without competing against WWE, but it seems they want to chose particular slot for a chance beating WWE Brand Show even that said show is just C-Show Developmental brand. They must be feel really proud for that.


Lol or they can’t have Tue/Thurs cause the networks biggest cash cow has its games on that night half the year.


----------



## RapShepard

AEW has dominated NXT ratings wise for sure. But it is humorous to see what we all consider a beat down now when you put it in context against the last wrestling ratings war and what was considered a beat down. But shit talk is funny so have at it.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

3venflow said:


> Agreed. I still look forward to Dynamite every week, which is the longest run of this happening since RAW around the turn of the millenium. It's a very imperfect product, but still the best weekly TV from an American wrestling company I've seen in some years.
> 
> Judging from the quote messages, the ratings thread - like the last one - has been hijacked again because we're not allowed to say nice things.
> 
> It's their best rating since September and considering every show is 'awful' in the eyes of the aforementioned people, surely they have been doing something right in recent weeks.
> 
> It's still a better rating than 5 of the 12 Dynamites in 2019, including the opening three shows which had the 'new show' bump (1m+). So while they may not have grown their audience much, they have retained much of it and have a sustainable fan base which is a good thing, especially given the unforeseen obstacles (pandemic, travel restrictions) that has affected the industry as a whole. The industry leader, WWE, has continued to lose TV viewers and RAW was down 37% from 2019 a couple of months ago.
> 
> As for demos not being important... the industry websites ranks ratings by the 'key demo' rather than total numbers and it is the first metric in their rundowns. That says it all and it is really an invented argument that they are irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATED: SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Top 150 Wednesday Cable Originals & Network Finals: 11.18.2020 | Showbuzz Daily
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.showbuzzdaily.com


Top post imo. Not factoring in an unprecedented global pandemic during your first year of programming is a telling move by many of the detractors. Maintaining those early levels despite this has been impressive, certainly not a sign of doom and gloom as some like to portray. 

And yes the ratings are ranked by the key demo by those in the industry for a reason, you would think lol. But regardless some folks outside the industry seem to know better. 

AEW has flaws but it's the only wrestling show that's kept me watching regularly for 20 years and there are plenty of others in the same boat, inside and outside of this forum. If we can't be happy about reinstating our fandom after such a long period - because certain people want to convince us we are wrong to do so - that's a pretty sad state of affairs really.


----------



## Alright_Mate

Oh here we go again... The Overly Positive vs The Overly Negative  

For the majority of the past 10 weeks, everybody knows AEW was on an underwhelming average streak.

To finally hit 850k again is a positive step; however it’s nothing to shout about...yet. How many times have we all come on here and said “Wow, well done AEW, that’s a great number”, then a week or so later it’s followed by, “Wow, that’s an underwhelming average rating for AEW”.

AEW are massively inconsistent, when they finally start showing consistency, which could be soon, could be next year, could be never, then fans have the right to rejoice at consistent positive numbers.

This weeks rating was finally a shining light, which broke a very average streak for AEW.

If they can match it next week, the week after that, then the week after that, potentially breaking the 900k barrier in the process, then they deserve to be applauded.

Right now though, everyone should calm the fuck down, and wait and see if consistency finally starts happening when it comes to AEW‘s ratings, if it doesn’t this thread for example will end up looking like a major embarrassment.


----------



## RapShepard

Raw vs Dynamite 
Raw had Monday Night Football
Dynamite had NXT and the NBA Draft


----------



## Carter84

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'm going off the Squared Circle Reddit (The biggest wrestling forum in the world). I think most of us on this forum are doing better than those guys because we're generally a bit older.


Ah right, no problem, thought you were on about her chipster. ✌✌✌


----------



## Carter84

fabi1982 said:


> See, comments like that I mean. Where is my comment embarassing? What is your take on that? Do you guys are just here because you want to see someone beating some part of WWE, or do you want a good product out of AEW? Because you know like 9month ago a 850 wouldnt bring up such threads and also a 0.37 demo would be expected, not paraded. So does that mean „AEW fans“ just lost hope and party every little thing Dave mentions? Seems like you really lowered your own bar. Because the way I read OPs and your comments is more like „haha NXT“ and not like „good AEW“, because you know these numbers are nothing to write home about.
> 
> And what does a 18-34 demo win every time there are more than 10m people watching NFL matter to AEW? The number is still tiny and nothing advertisers will throw money at TNT. What do a couple 1000 of these fans actually bring to AEW, besides you guys can parade it around the times WWE has to much of a competition on Mondays. And dont get me started about the report about the wrestling fans earning wise.
> 
> It is totally fine and right to party these things in the ratings thread, but doing threads like this and commenting like you do really paint you in a very sad picture. But hey, if you like being seen as such, then go for it.


Fabi you ever gonna reply , hope u win the predictions for procs wwe game as you ain't winning mine breh, nah seriously good post .


----------



## Seafort

La Parka said:


> They lost to WWE's third brand on Halloween. A show that did not feature Keith Lee, Adam Cole, Finn Balor, Ciampa or Kross.
> 
> AEW is doing okay but this is the equivalent of a TNA fan celebrating a ratings victory of ECW in 2007.
> 
> WWE spreads it's talent out over 5 brands (Raw,Smackdown,NXT,NXT UK and 205 Live). They are not in any way competing with AEW and celebrating a victory over a brand that Vince McMahon probably couldn't even name 5 wrestlers on just makes AEW look bush league.


Let AEW celebrate it. The NXT move was designed to disrupt any AEW momentum, and it largely worked. AEW would probably have been consistently in the 1.1M viewer range if not for the split audience from Week 1....something that TNA never had to worry about. If I were them I’d be as miffed as WWE was when Nitro went against Raw.


----------



## Not Lying

fabi1982 said:


> See, comments like that I mean. Where is my comment embarassing? What is your take on that? Do you guys are just here because you want to see someone beating some part of WWE, or do you want a good product out of AEW? Because you know like 9month ago a 850 wouldnt bring up such threads and also a 0.37 demo would be expected, not paraded. So does that mean „AEW fans“ just lost hope and party every little thing Dave mentions? Seems like you really lowered your own bar. Because the way I read OPs and your comments is more like „haha NXT“ and not like „good AEW“, because you know these numbers are nothing to write home about.
> 
> And what does a 18-34 demo win every time there are more than 10m people watching NFL matter to AEW? The number is still tiny and nothing advertisers will throw money at TNT. *What do a couple 1000 of these fans actually bring to AEW, besides you guys can parade it around the times WWE has to much of a competition on Mondays. *And dont get me started about the report about the wrestling fans earning wise.
> 
> It is totally fine and right to party these things in the ratings thread, but doing threads like this and commenting like you do really paint you in a very sad picture. But hey, if you like being seen as such, then go for it.


Man just keep exposing yourself as WWE chill and let the rest know 😂

That's why it's embarassing and that's why haters should be laughed at, you want the whole cake and eat it too, you can't celebrate wins, you don't know it's graded on scale.

AEW is a new company that is building itself and they run their business very differently than WWE. They are faced with competition from a show that's been in existence for 10 years, and is backed by the biggest wrestling company in the world. Yet AEW is crushing them in terms of demo and gets 20-30% more in Total viewership. 

AEW has provided many fans with an alternative to WWE, brought back many fans that stopped watching, and appealing to a younger demographic based on % of watchers than WWE. None expects AEW to just come in and stomp RAW in ratings or even be competitive, in any category. Any. Yet because of RAW's decline over the past year along with AEW producing content more appealing to younger audience, they've already closed the gap and beat them sometimes, this is highly impressive to anyone who isn't a hater/WWE chill like yourself. *It is a win whether you want to admit or not to beat them for 18-34 age group.*
You are the ones who are out of touch and think AEW should be matching RAW numbers, you are the ones who are delusional about where AEW is and where it could be because you have an "all or nothing" mentality.
Ya'll need to grow up and take a chill pill.

9 months ago we had fans in. AEW went to a decline of ratings for 3 months before rebounding strong like this. Yes gaining traction and growth like that should be celebrated because it's a win.


----------



## the_hound

Geeee said:


> AEW's rating is not really that impressive. The bigger story is how low these NXT ratings are. We're definitely never getting a main roster WWE product that's more like NXT


yup, ones on free tv while the other is on a paid service


----------



## fabi1982

The Definition of Technician said:


> Man just keep exposing yourself as WWE chill and let the rest know 😂
> 
> That's why it's embarassing and that's why haters should be laughed at, you want the whole cake and eat it too, you can't celebrate wins, you don't know it's graded on scale.
> 
> AEW is a new company that is building itself and they run their business very differently than WWE. They are faced with competition from a show that's been in existence for 10 years, and is backed by the biggest wrestling company in the world. Yet AEW is crushing them in terms of demo and gets 20-30% more in Total viewership.
> 
> AEW has provided many fans with an alternative to WWE, brought back many fans that stopped watching, and appealing to a younger demographic based on % of watchers than WWE. None expects AEW to just come in and stomp RAW in ratings or even be competitive, in any category. Any. Yet because of RAW's decline over the past year along with AEW producing content more appealing to younger audience, they've already closed the gap and beat them sometimes, this is highly impressive to anyone who isn't a hater/WWE chill like yourself. *It is a win whether you want to admit or not to beat them for 18-34 age group.*
> You are the ones who are out of touch and think AEW should be matching RAW numbers, you are the ones who are delusional about where AEW is and where it could be because you have an "all or nothing" mentality.
> Ya'll need to grow up and take a chill pill.
> 
> 9 months ago we had fans in. AEW went to a decline of ratings for 3 months before rebounding strong like this. Yes gaining traction and growth like that should be celebrated because it's a win.


Again, where did I expose myself that I am a WWE chill? What is that exaclty in your mind? Because I dont parade things like this? You said "A win is a win", *but hey stop here*, when NXT beat AEW in viewers but still lost in "the demo" you guys said AEW still won, because "the demo". *Looking at @RapShepard post above you, I still see RAW being better in the demo (by up to 50%), so where is that win for you? When usually the demo is where a win or loss is happening?* (fancy I can go bold and underlined, too). Do you see people in a decathlon go parade their win in the pole vault, when they end up losing the whole thing (the demo)? I never saw that happening. So I can do that too, you are an AEW chill and defend everything and try to pick things out of perspective to have your way. So what now? We both chills? Hmm doesnt feel so good, right?

And I am interested how long this "AEW is still new" will work for guys like you. 2 more years? 10? And then you go and say things like "out of touch", "take a chill pill", so where are your arguments? And yes they rebound from the low at the beginning of the COVID era, but what defines "strong" here? Your own opinion defines that and you guess what? That is fine with me. So at the end "we haters" should except your opinion, but you dare to except ours? Thats a foul right here. But hey, same same but different, right? You go girl!!


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Cult03 said:


> What's with the victim complex AEW fans have?


WE ARE TIRED OF LOGGING ON AND 75% OF THE POSTS ARE NEGATIVE


----------



## El Hammerstone

TKO Wrestling said:


> WE ARE TIRED OF LOGGING ON AND 75% OF THE POSTS ARE NEGATIVE


Then may I suggest Freakin' Awesome Network forum, where any "negative" talk and actual discussion regarding the product is strictly banned. You'll find your safe space there.


----------



## AthleticGirth

Well done AEW. Easily my favourite North American wrestling show right now.

During the Monday Night wars there was a big piece of pie to compete for, the stakes were high and it created a buzz. Now with a shrinking wrestling audience to stick NXT against AEW is just petty and dumb.

Trying to hold down AEW isn't going to change how stale WWE is, and it isn't going to win back the millions who've stopped watching Raw and Smackdown.


----------



## Prosper

LOL what a joke this thread is. The redundancy in this place makes me think I'm talking to a bunch of lunatics. 



El Hammerstone said:


> Then may I suggest Freakin' Awesome Network forum, where any "negative" talk and actual discussion regarding the product is strictly banned. You'll find your safe space there.


There is a lot of negativity there. They shit on FTR and the women's division more than this board.


----------



## Klitschko

I swear, I really don't remember demo ever being spoken about when it came to TNA vs WWE or WCW vs WWE. Nobody says what the demo was during the attitude era. All anyone talks about is the millions of fans that were there. Why did demo become important all of a sudden in the last year that AEW was created? Legit question.


----------



## Not Lying

fabi1982 said:


> Again, where did I expose myself that I am a WWE chill? What is that exaclty in your mind? Because I dont parade things like this? You said "A win is a win", *but hey stop here*, when NXT beat AEW in viewers but still lost in "the demo" you guys said AEW still won, because "the demo". *Looking at @RapShepard post above you, I still see RAW being better in the demo (by up to 50%), so where is that win for you? When usually the demo is where a win or loss is happening?* (fancy I can go bold and underlined, too). Do you see people in a decathlon go parade their win in the pole vault, when they end up losing the whole thing (the demo)? I never saw that happening. So I can do that too, you are an AEW chill and defend everything and try to pick things out of perspective to have your way. So what now? We both chills? Hmm doesnt feel so good, right?
> 
> And I am interested how long this "AEW is still new" will work for guys like you. 2 more years? 10? And then you go and say things like "out of touch", "take a chill pill", so where are your arguments? And yes they rebound from the low at the beginning of the COVID era, but what defines "strong" here? Your own opinion defines that and you guess what? That is fine with me. So at the end "we haters" should except your opinion, but you dare to except ours? Thats a foul right here. But hey, same same but different, right? You go girl!!


No, I am an AEW Fan. You are a WWE chill because you find a way to shit on AEW's product when it's not relevant and shit on whatever success they have because you can't seem to fathom the idea of a new company coming and challenging your precious little WWE.

We're talking the demo18-34 now, not 18-49. But I guess I should start expecting more people on this forum to have bad reading comprehension skills or maybe use deflecting as tactic to stray away from the argument. Go read my posts from above to understand why 18-34 is a win.

Out of touch? yeah you are out of touch if you think AEW was supposed to beat RAW in 1 year's time or even come close to it, so when you go brag about RAW beating them and we're like "yeah, so?" and you pretend its something worth talking about, you become a WWE chill and laughing stock for us fans who never claimed AEW is going to be beating RAW anytime soon in key demo or total viewership.

The strong growth I'm talking about is a 25-30% rise, it's not an opinion, it's a fact that such a % rise is looked at very favorably, aka strong.

you not thinking it's significant makes you look even less credible and more delusional with your ridiculous standards of what a new company should be drawing in 1 year, in a niche market, vs a competition backed by a company that have dominated the market for 40 years.

This is the list of a typical someone i look down on and think he's nothing but a troll/WWE Chill/complete moron


Anyone who thinks ratings from 10 years ago are comparable to now, for example, anyone who brings what numbers TNA did thinking he has some sort of talking point
Anyone who thinks their debut 1.4m was their base, and still brings this argument up now a year later
Anyone who thinks competition shouldn't have an effect on viewership



Klitschko said:


> I swear, I really don't remember demo ever being spoken about when it came to TNA vs WWE or WCW vs WWE. Nobody says what the demo was during the attitude era. All anyone talks about is the millions of fans that were there. Why did demo become important all of a sudden in the last year that AEW was created? Legit question.


Strictly demo talk? It's always been talked about. You can see for yourself probably hundreds of posts talking about demo in RAW/SD ratings threads before AEW. Of course, it wasn't talked about as pre-AEW, but it was still discussed.

I don't know the demos for AttitudeEra, but I'm willing to assume that no one is going to bring up demo if it's relatively similar to the competitor. Example: WWE beats WCW 20% more in total viewership, and 20% more in demo. Not really important to discuss.
If they're beating with 20% more viewership and 50% more in demo, then it could have been a talking point for how much better WWE is doing, if WCW had been beating them in demo while losing in total viewership you'd have definitely seen it.

What we're seeing now is AEW beating NXT in total viewers, and absolutely crushing them in demo, even when they lose vs NXT they still beat them in demo. It's important when we look at rankings and see AEW up by more than 30 spots on NXT due to it.


----------



## WWFNoMercyExpert

El Hammerstone said:


> Then may I suggest Freakin' Awesome Network forum, where any "negative" talk and actual discussion regarding the product is strictly banned. You'll find your safe space there.


Lol, after you mentioned that place I got ads to donate to the fight against racism


----------



## RapShepard

Klitschko said:


> I swear, I really don't remember demo ever being spoken about when it came to TNA vs WWE or WCW vs WWE. Nobody says what the demo was during the attitude era. All anyone talks about is the millions of fans that were there. Why did demo become important all of a sudden in the last year that AEW was created? Legit question.


Demos really are important in TV. But they became a big talking about the last year because of Meltzer and Alvarez. Now they've always mentioned demos. But when comparing how good AEW was doing against NXT and WWE in general the demo talk gives a more in-depth breakdown on how much better they're doing than NXT or how close they're getting to competing with Raw and SmackDown. It's actually brilliant because it's factually important, but allows for more precise shit talk lol.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

El Hammerstone said:


> Then may I suggest Freakin' Awesome Network forum, where any "negative" talk and actual discussion regarding the product is strictly banned. You'll find your safe space there.


Clearly that isn't what we want, we all realize that it has flaws. But if you were a non fan coming to this forum for the first time to learn about AEW and you saw this shit you'd think it was Ring of Honor or something. 

All we want is a balance, not a bunch of Cornette clones dominating the post count.


----------



## One Shed

TKO Wrestling said:


> Clearly that isn't what we want, we all realize that it has flaws. But if you were a non fan coming to this forum for the first time to learn about AEW and you saw this shit you'd think it was Ring of Honor or something.
> 
> All we want is a balance, not a bunch of Cornette clones dominating the post count.


Present a better product, get less criticism. Amazing how that works.


----------



## El Hammerstone

TKO Wrestling said:


> Clearly that isn't what we want, we all realize that it has flaws. But if you were a non fan coming to this forum for the first time to learn about AEW and you saw this shit you'd think it was Ring of Honor or something.
> 
> All we want is a balance, not a bunch of Cornette clones dominating the post count.


Then perhaps AEW should present more of the things that have been more or less universally praised in this section in the past; as hard as it may be to believe, I do in fact want the company to succeed, if I didn't, then me getting as frustrated as I do over many of their decisions wouldn't make sense; the same can be said for the vast majority of supposed "Cornette clones."


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

fabi1982 said:


> Again, where did I expose myself that I am a WWE chill? What is that exaclty in your mind? Because I dont parade things like this? You said "A win is a win", *but hey stop here*, when NXT beat AEW in viewers but still lost in "the demo" you guys said AEW still won, because "the demo". *Looking at @RapShepard post above you, I still see RAW being better in the demo (by up to 50%), so where is that win for you? When usually the demo is where a win or loss is happening?* (fancy I can go bold and underlined, too). Do you see people in a decathlon go parade their win in the pole vault, when they end up losing the whole thing (the demo)? I never saw that happening. So I can do that too, you are an AEW chill and defend everything and try to pick things out of perspective to have your way. So what now? We both chills? Hmm doesnt feel so good, right?
> 
> And I am interested how long this "AEW is still new" will work for guys like you. 2 more years? 10? And then you go and say things like "out of touch", "take a chill pill", so where are your arguments? And yes they rebound from the low at the beginning of the COVID era, but what defines "strong" here? Your own opinion defines that and you guess what? That is fine with me. So at the end "we haters" should except your opinion, but you dare to except ours? Thats a foul right here. But hey, same same but different, right? You go girl!!


They're calling you a WWE shill because you were mean to the poor M'Dub. Can't be saying negative things about it even though the show largely sucks.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

TKO Wrestling said:


> WE ARE TIRED OF LOGGING ON AND 75% OF THE POSTS ARE NEGATIVE


Maybe harden up a bit then mate, not everyone is gonna like the show. If you can't handle people not liking the show you like then you probably shouldn't be on the internet buddy. Stop being soft


----------



## kamaro011

TKO Wrestling said:


> WE ARE TIRED OF LOGGING ON AND 75% OF THE POSTS ARE NEGATIVE


Just like real life


----------



## 10gizzle

Chip Chipperson said:


> If most AEW/hardcore wrestling fans weren't broke and living at their parents house it'd become a much more attractive demographic.
> 
> Nobody wants to advertise to a bunch of nerdy AEW fans unfortunately. WWE still offers the much more appealing fan base.


Do live at your parents house? I sure as hell don't. I'd venture to bet advertisers would love to advertise to people like us (I believe we're same gen, few years older than you - sounds like you have stable work by how much you commute too)

If we flip the narrative to the above, then AEW's demo becomes very valuable and attractive. 

Are we talking about people who are 25 and under living with their parents?

Are we talking about 25-35 years olds living with their parents? I mean, if that is who we're alluding to and they represent most AEW/hardcore wresting fans, I'd venture to guess they have some disposable income living rent free at home.

That being said - I don't disagree with you that there is definitely a segment of wrestling population that is very not attractive to advertisers but I truly believe that represents more of a stereotype than the actual, majority figures. AEW is going to smash with regards to toys, games, they're about to partner up for trading cards as well with Topps or Upper Deck I believe?

If all of these brands are willing to get in business with AEW, there's reason for it. 

Like I said in another thread - AEW isn't trying to become WWE. They're trying to become Fortnite.


----------



## Kentucky34

The demo talk is just AEW fans spinning the facts. 

The facts are that a customer is a customer. It does not matter what age they are. 

AEW has fewer customers than WWE and it is not even close.


----------



## WWFNoMercyExpert

To be faaaaiiiiirrr with how up and down the economy has been since 2008 living at home (for under 25s, at least) isn't seen as as much of a negative thing.


----------



## One Shed

TKO Wrestling said:


> WE ARE TIRED OF LOGGING ON AND 75% OF THE POSTS ARE NEGATIVE


We are tired of tuning in and 75% of the show being bad.


----------



## the_hound

Klitschko said:


> I swear, I really don't remember demo ever being spoken about when it came to TNA vs WWE or WCW vs WWE. Nobody says what the demo was during the attitude era. All anyone talks about is the millions of fans that were there. Why did demo become important all of a sudden in the last year that AEW was created? Legit question.


the aew fans or i should call them njpw elitists decided one day after beating nxt for the umpteenth time woke up to find out that nxt beat them in the ratings, so they decided you know what we're noting having that we never got beat, so then these njpw elitists created the demo talk "we never got beat we won the demos" "its always been about the demos" so then the following week aew wins and then you had jericho, meltzer and bryan talk about demos and how it now all of a sudden matters thus jericho proclaimed himself as a "demo god".


----------



## omaroo

You are looking at possibly full crowds back especially in the states for such shows sometime in 2022 most likely.

So they will stagnate or drop off through 2021.

Cant see them ever consistently to 1 million plus viewers every week.

Their brand is not as strong or recognised globally like WWE.


----------



## omaroo

Two Sheds said:


> We are tired of tuning in and 75% of the show being bad.


I guess those who are objective have to support AEW no matter what and to make these AEW marks who cant see no wrong.

Show is average most weeks. Too bush league imo alot of the time.

Doesnt help show feels disjointed alot of the time.

WWE sucks big time and you would have hoped AEW would have given fans something new and fresh but they have miserably failed there.


----------



## 10gizzle

omaroo said:


> You are looking at possibly full crowds back especially in the states for such shows sometime in 2022 most likely.
> 
> So they will stagnate or drop off through 2021.
> 
> Cant see them ever consistently to 1 million plus viewers every week.
> 
> Their brand is not as strong or recognised globally like WWE.


That's definitely true.

On the other hand, they may also have the fastest growing wrestling brand of all time.


----------



## Shock Street

omaroo said:


> Doesnt help show feels disjointed alot of the time.


That's an understatement, it feels like each segment takes place in its own separate universe sometimes


----------



## omaroo

10gizzle said:


> That's definitely true.
> 
> On the other hand, they may also have the fastest growing wrestling brand of all time.


With whos running things sadly I cant seem them growing rapidly to ever really challenge WWE.


----------



## omaroo

Jumping from one thing to another and just feeling things are random doesnt mean its a good thing imo.


----------



## One Shed

omaroo said:


> I guess those who are objective have to support AEW no matter what and to make these AEW marks who cant see no wrong.
> 
> Show is average most weeks. Too bush league imo alot of the time.
> 
> Doesnt help show feels disjointed alot of the time.
> 
> WWE sucks big time and you would have hoped AEW would have given fans something new and fresh but they have miserably failed there.


I have started calling it schizophrenic booking because I think it really helps get the point across. The show is very disjointed. I would love to have a consultant really be able to analyze them seeing who does what behind the scenes to eliminate the nonsense. The problem they would likely run into is the source of that is likely too high up to do anything about.

AEW does feel more and more like WWE the longer they continue. We literally had Hornswoggle in a diaper this week.


----------



## fabi1982

The Definition of Technician said:


> No, I am an AEW Fan. You are a WWE chill because you find a way to shit on AEW's product when it's not relevant and shit on whatever success they have because you can't seem to fathom the idea of a new company coming and challenging your precious little WWE.
> 
> We're talking the demo18-34 now, not 18-49. But I guess I should start expecting more people on this forum to have bad reading comprehension skills or maybe use deflecting as tactic to stray away from the argument. Go read my posts from above to understand why 18-34 is a win.
> 
> Out of touch? yeah you are out of touch if you think AEW was supposed to beat RAW in 1 year's time or even come close to it, so when you go brag about RAW beating them and we're like "yeah, so?" and you pretend its something worth talking about, you become a WWE chill and laughing stock for us fans who never claimed AEW is going to be beating RAW anytime soon in key demo or total viewership.
> 
> The strong growth I'm talking about is a 25-30% rise, it's not an opinion, it's a fact that such a % rise is looked at very favorably, aka strong.
> 
> you not thinking it's significant makes you look even less credible and more delusional with your ridiculous standards of what a new company should be drawing in 1 year, in a niche market, vs a competition backed by a company that have dominated the market for 40 years.
> 
> This is the list of a typical someone i look down on and think he's nothing but a troll/WWE Chill/complete moron
> 
> 
> Anyone who thinks ratings from 10 years ago are comparable to now, for example, anyone who brings what numbers TNA did thinking he has some sort of talking point
> Anyone who thinks their debut 1.4m was their base, and still brings this argument up now a year later
> Anyone who thinks competition shouldn't have an effect on viewership


Ok:


where did I shit on the product with my initial post?
where is it „my“ WWE? And why does my comments on AEW reflect to likinh WWE? I like NXT, yes, but where do you read I defend bad booking and so on for WWE?
yeah youre talking the demo now, because it fits your narrative, like I said, when other bring up other demos or general viewers it doesnt matter, so why does it matter now?
where did I say they should beat RAW in a years time? Show me.
oh and „you fans“ after the 1m viewership a couple weeks ago claimed it will beat RAW soon, so what is it now (not saying you said it)
30% rise from 3 is 4, is that great? With lower numbers differences in % is large, but would an 850 get a thread like this 9 month ago? It is a great percentage gain, but ending at 850 isnt anything to write home about, EVEN FOR AEW STANDARDS.
where did I say AEW should get AE ratings or compare them to TNA?
I never said they should be bacl to 1.4m or they are bad
of course competition has an impact, but it seems just for AEW. Like I said in my initial post that OP claimed RAW was unopposed, when there was an NFL game with 11+m people watching, when AEW had NXT and a draft watched by 2.5m, thats all I claimed

So please answer my points or just go back in your basement. Honestly you just make things up about me/the haters, just so you dont see yourself „losing“ in any kind of discussion board, and that at the end is the most sad and pathetic thing I saw all day.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

omaroo said:


> I guess those who are objective have to support AEW no matter what and to make these AEW marks who cant see no wrong.
> 
> Show is average most weeks. Too bush league imo alot of the time.
> 
> Doesnt help show feels disjointed alot of the time.
> 
> WWE sucks big time and you would have hoped AEW would have given fans something new and fresh but they have miserably failed there.


No one says that it shouldn't be objective but you have people on here literally hating every single segment of every show. Which is fine, don't watch. But when the general public hasn't quit watching it, something is making someone happy. It just gets fucking old. The highest post counts here are the ones constantly talking shit.


----------



## 10gizzle

omaroo said:


> With whos running things sadly I cant seem them growing rapidly to ever really challenge WWE.


They don't need to. They just need to challenge themselves.

They're already cross promoting with the NBA through TNT.

They're already affiliated with the NFL through TK's ownership of the Jags.

They're already working with other promotions and even UFC fighters.

They have roots in place.

They just need to grow slowly and surely.


----------



## omaroo

Two Sheds said:


> I have started calling it schizophrenic booking because I think it really helps get the point across. The show is very disjointed. I would love to have a consultant really be able to analyze them seeing who does what behind the scenes to eliminate the nonsense. The problem they would likely run into is the source of that is likely too high up to do anything about.
> 
> AEW does feel more and more like WWE the longer they continue. We literally had Hornswoggle in a diaper this week.


I am sure TK found the Hornswoggle part hilarious. That was so awful and even the las vegas segment of the inner circle just seemed a bit too forced and over the top.

But we TK finds no faults he believes his show is perfect so ye AEW long term dont look good.


----------



## omaroo

TKO Wrestling said:


> No one says that it shouldn't be objective but you have people on here literally hating every single segment of every show. Which is fine, don't watch. But when the general public hasn't quit watching it, something is making someone happy. It just gets fucking old. The highest post counts here are the ones constantly talking shit.


I dont hate AEW nor do I want them to fail as I have said numerous times.

Talking "shit" as you put it is me giving my opinion on the show and saying what I believe is wrong with the show which is no doubt the management first and foremost. I dont have some side to choose between them or WWE. I will say what ever I think is right imo. If you or others start calling it as negativity then so be it.

I could care less about post counts lol. People here who have 10s of thousands of post might give a shit about that but I dont and never have since being on this place since 2006.


----------



## DammitChrist

Cult03 said:


> Oh fuck off, I said this on day one. I don't care what other people like because I think for myself. Large viewership doesn't make it better. Out of curiosity, how are you getting TNT in Australia? Also @The Definition of Technician how are you getting TNT in France? Of course you won't respond to the actual content of my response but will respond trying to be insulting because you simply don't have the answers and you never have.


Yikes, you’re giving off Donald Trump vibes here atm. You might want to dial back the ridiculousness please for our sake here.


----------



## omaroo

Thats all well and good but this pandemic for such a new company will prove to be more harmful to them as time goes on compared to the 50+ year old brand that is WWE.

I said it before but they will never reach prime WCW level or WWEs level today.

That is not a bad thing but being 2nd or 3rd in the industry is something anyway.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Two Sheds said:


> Present a better product, get less criticism. Amazing how that works.


You know what else works? Not fucking watching and doing something else.


----------



## One Shed

omaroo said:


> I am sure TK found the Hornswoggle part hilarious. That was so awful and even the las vegas segment of the inner circle just seemed a bit too forced and over the top.
> 
> But we TK finds no faults he believes his show is perfect so ye AEW long term dont look good.


I honestly think a lot of the poor comedy is coming from Jericho. A lot of people who are very, very good in one specific area are horrible in others. Ric Flair is a self-admittedly poor trainer. He is awesome at doing, but poor at teaching. I am the same way. I am very good at doing my job, but I hate having to explain how to do the things I do to people. A lot of really good wrestlers are very poor at creative.


----------



## One Shed

The Raw Smackdown said:


> You know what else works? Not fucking watching and doing something else.


Yup, that works too! More and more people have been doing exactly that for fifteen years now!

"PLEASE stop watching this show!" is a really weird strategy to build a company whose major revenue source is TV contracts though.


----------



## The XL 2

Beating NXT means absolutely nothing, they're a mediocre development brand that has a fourth of the audience that WWECW did. The fact is, AEWs audience has shown no growth whatsoever in a year. And it isn't because of a lack of fans, there are over 2 million people who watch Smackdown and there are millions upon millions of lapsed ex WWE fans who stopped watching their product over the last few years. The problem is, AEWs product doesn't cater to much more than extreme niche.


----------



## Not Lying

fabi1982 said:


> Ok:
> 
> 
> where did I shit on the product with my initial post?
> where is it „my“ WWE? And why does my comments on AEW reflect to likinh WWE? I like NXT, yes, but where do you read I defend bad booking and so on for WWE?
> yeah youre talking the demo now, because it fits your narrative, like I said, when other bring up other demos or general viewers it doesnt matter, so why does it matter now?
> where did I say they should beat RAW in a years time? Show me.
> oh and „you fans“ after the 1m viewership a couple weeks ago claimed it will beat RAW soon, so what is it now (not saying you said it)
> 30% rise from 3 is 4, is that great? With lower numbers differences in % is large, but would an 850 get a thread like this 9 month ago? It is a great percentage gain, but ending at 850 isnt anything to write home about, EVEN FOR AEW STANDARDS.
> where did I say AEW should get AE ratings or compare them to TNA?
> I never said they should be bacl to 1.4m or they are bad
> of course competition has an impact, but it seems just for AEW. Like I said in my initial post that OP claimed RAW was unopposed, when there was an NFL ga
> me with 11+m people watching, when AEW had NXT and a draft watched by 2.5m, thats all I claimed
> 
> So please answer my points or just go back in your basement. Honestly you just make things up about me/the haters, just so you dont see yourself „losing“ in any kind of discussion board, and that at the end is the most sad and pathetic thing I saw all day.


You are taking this wayy too personally (of course, you're insecure and I just exposed you) as If i'm targetting you only you, you are asked "what is a WWE chill", I answered the question in general, and you know damn well. And just to be clear, I wasn't talking about you when I brought up the TNA/1.4m crap that gets brought a lot, I put this in the end of my post to make it clear who comes off as so desperate with zero credibility.

Your original post with the NFL numbers and downplaying the win exposed you as a WWE chill.

So why are you bragging about RAW beating AEW?
Yes it doesn't go both ways, because RAW should be beating AEW, but AEW shouldn't be beating RAW at all, and yet, they have in an age group that is relevant to advertisers (hence its existence) and it shows that for that specific age group, more people watched AEW this week RAW.

I was talking about that specific demo from the beginning, no problem you can't read, and you're doubling down on this because I already explained why it matters. Double fail.

Each fan-base has extremes, yes like the ones who claimed AEW will be beating RAW soon, but it's so typical, that haters like you will focus on these and set them as the standard for the rest of the fan-base.

😂 😂 I love how you're so bothered by people celebrating the biggest beatdown AEW gave NXT. It doesn't matter if it's not that important to brag about or have it's own thread, it's still something, and it's a big bump, you being so bothered by this positive thread is hilarious. It's an easy thread to see the fanboys so bothered by a company's success.

Good. So at least you can admit now that having a competition impacts ratings 

I love how you all dorks have the same excuse when backed into a corner.
I don't keep track of your every movement Fabi, I just browse the forum and see the typical haters, dominating this message board with hate and post messages of lenght and amount tenfolds more than fans, getting the applauds and likes from their typical fans. You being a little background cheerleader is funny.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

TKO Wrestling said:


> WE ARE TIRED OF LOGGING ON AND 75% OF THE POSTS ARE NEGATIVE


Show becomes better negativity goes away.



El Hammerstone said:


> Then may I suggest Freakin' Awesome Network forum, where any "negative" talk and actual discussion regarding the product is strictly banned. You'll find your safe space there.


Yup. Can't even mention Cornette over there lol.



prosperwithdeen said:


> There is a lot of negativity there. They shit on FTR and the women's division more than this board.


They rate Dynamite an 8 or 9 out of 10 every week and genuinely want an OC Title run. They also ban those that don't praise AEW.



Klitschko said:


> I swear, I really don't remember demo ever being spoken about when it came to TNA vs WWE or WCW vs WWE. Nobody says what the demo was during the attitude era. All anyone talks about is the millions of fans that were there. Why did demo become important all of a sudden in the last year that AEW was created? Legit question.


That's because it didn't become a thing until last year. Dave and AEW fans wanted a way for AEW to kill NXT each week which is where demo came in. 




Two Sheds said:


> Yup, that works too! More and more people have been doing exactly that for fifteen years now!
> 
> "PLEASE stop watching this show!" is a really weird strategy to build a company whose major revenue source is TV contracts though.


I remember Impact fans back in the day begging for this until one day people stopped.

True AEW fans will at least hear "da haters!1" out. AEW's goal should be to hook us and retain existing fans


----------



## One Shed

Chip Chipperson said:


> I remember Impact fans back in the day begging for this until one day people stopped.
> 
> True AEW fans will at least hear "da haters!1" out. AEW's goal should be to hook us and retain existing fans


Blind religious zealots: "PLEASE stop watching this show"

Us eventually: "OK. Oh look, MLW is back. Let me check that out."

Blind religious zealots: "Wait, why are the ratings falling? Vince must be paying them not to watch!"


----------



## DammitChrist

El Hammerstone said:


> Then may I suggest Freakin' Awesome Network forum, where any "negative" talk and actual discussion regarding the product is strictly banned. You'll find your safe space there.


Oh, I get it.

You critics just want to have your own echo chamber so that the majority of the posts here on the AEW section can be negative, and where you get to obnoxiously criticize the product without getting called out. That’s why you’re suggesting the passionate fans to go post elsewhere if they feel like praising the product.

I’d love to break it to you (and the other critics), but that’s not going to happen at all as long as AEW *continues* to deliver an entertaining product on a weekly basis.

Edit:

The last couple of previous posts up above gets a big yikes from me. This is why AEW shouldn’t listen to some of you bitter critics. It’s always the same pessimistic song from you people.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Oh, I get it.
> 
> You critics just want to have your own echo chamber so that the majority of the posts here on the AEW section can be negative, and where you get to obnoxiously criticize the product without getting called out. That’s why you’re suggesting the passionate fans to go post elsewhere if they feel like praising the product.
> 
> I’d love to break it to you (and the other critics), but that’s not going to happen at all as long as AEW *continues* to deliver an entertaining product on a weekly basis.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> The last couple of previous posts up above gets a big yikes from me. This is why AEW shouldn’t listen to some of you bitter critics. It’s always the same pessimistic song from you people.


It is to their benefit and credit that they have partially been listening though. They have realized that OC belongs in the undercard at best and have put him back there. I am happy to give Tony all the credit for listening to and responding to the overwhelming evidence there.

Glad that debate is over at least


----------



## Chip Chipperson

10gizzle said:


> They don't need to. They just need to challenge themselves.
> 
> They're already cross promoting with the NBA through TNT.
> 
> They're already affiliated with the NFL through TK's ownership of the Jags.
> 
> They're already working with other promotions and even UFC fighters.
> 
> They have roots in place.
> 
> They just need to grow slowly and surely.


Both good things but let's say Jericho rocks up on a big NBA game, a million people go "Aw shit, Jericho? True? I'm checking this out" and tune in.

What does AEW have to hook them? Long often boring matches, cringe segments like Cody/Brandi/Jade and Hornswoggle in a diaper. They've got stories that are often dull and sometimes just bad, the match quality is good meaning you'll get a match a week that's good but how much value does that have?

Your product needs to be firing before celebrities and crossovers but the AEW product isn't and with Omega about to become champion and a Cody story line with a retired fifty year old NBA player I'm not seeing what's going to attract a casual to stick around long term


----------



## DammitChrist

Two Sheds said:


> It is to their benefit and credit that they have partially been listening though. They have realized that OC belongs in the undercard at best and have put him back there. I am happy to give Tony all the credit for listening to and responding to the overwhelming evidence there.
> 
> Glad that debate is over at least


Considering the fact that Orange Cassidy got approximately 15 minutes of TV time wrestling in the ring, the fact that he didn’t “tank” ratings at all (despite his clueless critics claiming that nobody wants to see him perform on TV), and the fact that he wins more matches than he loses; Cassidy is still hovering around the upper card since the company (thankfully) likes him.

Plus, Cassidy is still one of the most over/popular acts on AEW too; so now we can *finally* close the debate with the critics being completely wrong about him


----------



## fabi1982

The Definition of Technician said:


> You are taking this wayy too personally (of course, you're insecure and I just exposed you) as If i'm targetting you only you, you are asked "what is a WWE chill", I answered the question in general, and you know damn well. And just to be clear, I wasn't talking about you when I brought up the TNA/1.4m crap that gets brought a lot, I put this in the end of my post to make it clear who comes off as so desperate with zero credibility.
> 
> Your original post with the NFL numbers and downplaying the win exposed you as a WWE chill.
> 
> So why are you bragging about RAW beating AEW?
> Yes it doesn't go both ways, because RAW should be beating AEW, but AEW shouldn't be beating RAW at all, and yet, they have in an age group that is relevant to advertisers (hence its existence) and it shows that for that specific age group, more people watched AEW this week RAW.
> 
> I was talking about that specific demo from the beginning, no problem you can't read, and you're doubling down on this because I already explained why it matters. Double fail.
> 
> Each fan-base has extremes, yes like the ones who claimed AEW will be beating RAW soon, but it's so typical, that haters like you will focus on these and set them as the standard for the rest of the fan-base.
> 
> 😂 😂 I love how you're so bothered by people celebrating the biggest beatdown AEW gave NXT. It doesn't matter if it's not that important to brag about or have it's own thread, it's still something, and it's a big bump, you being so bothered by this positive thread is hilarious. It's an easy thread to see the fanboys so bothered by a company's success.
> 
> Good. So at least you can admit now that having a competition impacts ratings
> 
> I love how you all dorks have the same excuse when backed into a corner.
> I don't keep track of your every movement Fabi, I just browse the forum and see the typical haters, dominating this message board with hate and post messages of lenght and amount tenfolds more than fans, getting the applauds and likes from their typical fans. You being a little background cheerleader is funny.


See, you really need to win this, even if this means you go back and say it wasnt directed at me. Know what? Dont reply to my post if it wasnt meant to be like that. 

But hey as you seem to really need the win in this discussion here, I am the bigger man and say you win, whatever that is, but it seems you need that with all your insulting. And hey think of me when you wank later


----------



## Not Lying

fabi1982 said:


> See, you really need to win this, even if this means you go back and say it wasnt directed at me. Know what? Dont reply to my post if it wasnt meant to be like that.
> 
> But hey as you seem to really need the win in this discussion here, I am the bigger man and say you win, whatever that is, but it seems you need that with all your insulting. And hey think of me when you wank later


😂 😂

I did direct many things at you, and I mentioned a lot of stuff that are common with AEW haters, that won't necessarily apply to you. Why is that so hard for you to understand?


----------



## El Hammerstone

DammitChrist said:


> Oh, I get it.
> 
> You critics just want to have your own echo chamber so that the majority of the posts here on the AEW section can be negative, and where you get to obnoxiously criticize the product without getting called out. That’s why you’re suggesting the passionate fans to go post elsewhere if they feel like praising the product.
> 
> I’d love to break it to you (and the other critics), but that’s not going to happen at all as long as AEW *continues* to deliver an entertaining product on a weekly basis.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> The last couple of previous posts up above gets a big yikes from me. This is why AEW shouldn’t listen to some of you bitter critics. It’s always the same pessimistic song from you people.


Doesn't seem you get it at all; I couldn't possibly care less whether you stay or leave. I'd love to break it to you as well, that I and the others don't plan to leave anytime soon either; we will continue to give our honest assessments on what we see, and if you have an issue with that, then I suggest you notify someone who cares.


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> Show becomes better negativity goes away.
> 
> 
> 
> Yup. Can't even mention Cornette over there lol.
> 
> 
> 
> They rate Dynamite an 8 or 9 out of 10 every week and genuinely want an OC Title run. They also ban those that don't praise AEW.
> 
> 
> 
> That's because it didn't become a thing until last year. Dave and AEW fans wanted a way for AEW to kill NXT each week which is where demo came in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I remember Impact fans back in the day begging for this until one day people stopped.
> 
> True AEW fans will at least hear "da haters!1" out. AEW's goal should be to hook us and retain existing fans


-That's not true, just last week most of them rated Dynamite 6's and 7's, they hated the Jade Cargill stuff and thought this week's show was better, which I disagree with. 

-Cornette threads being banned is a good thing. They just lead to the same "post wars" that they lead to here. They should be banned on WF as well. Who gives a shit what he or Meltzer think they're not active posters. We know Cornette unauthentically does it on purpose because he's asked to by AEW detractors and we know Meltzer is most likely on the payroll. I only care to read opinions from people who I can engage with. 

-Let them rate based off of their opinions on the show. At least 50% of this board loves the show every week too. If they are extreme about rating highly, you are also extreme with your 2/10 rating you give Dynamite every week. They don't ban anyone that doesn't praise AEW. I've seen plenty of shit talk. You're being hyperbolic. 

-You are correct that there are a lot of OC fans there though. Half of them are probably the reason OC/Silver was moved to the main card at Full Gear.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Considering the fact that Orange Cassidy got approximately 15 minutes of TV time wrestling in the ring, the fact that he didn’t “tank” ratings at all (despite his clueless critics claiming that nobody wants to see him perform on TV), and the fact that he wins more matches than he loses; Cassidy is still hovering around the upper card since the company (thankfully) likes him.
> 
> Plus, Cassidy is still one of the most over/popular acts on AEW too; so now we can *finally* close the debate with you critics being completely wrong about him


Many people who like him on here have been vocal in him getting tiresome/not belonging in the upper card. The tide has definitely shifted on here and you have to have noticed it. I will continue with what I saw as obvious: he is a one dimensional wooden character and bit part player. There is no way to evolve or grow his character. Someone like him can work in front of a live crowd in a middle school gym "packed" with 187 people, but on national TV every week it wears out and quickly. We have seen that happen in front of our eyes over the summer and as I said, most of his defenders are saying things like "I like him, but he should be in the mid card" or "OK he had his moment with Jericho, but enough now."

For ratings, I have already posted them before. Most of his segments over the summer were middle of the road to poor except for the one that Bischoff appeared on for the first time in 20 years on TNT and his appearance was leaked a full weak before it happened.

OC had a match with Brodie Lee's small child on the PPV and then with the second best known person on the show with the name of Kip this week. Hardly compelling. The experiment failed. Luckily Tony Khan seems to have realized that and has enough business sense to stop it now. Like I said, I give him credit for that and praise the company for acting on evidence. Thankfully the debate seems to have closed now with him dropping down the card because most fans who did like him have soured on him. I saw through him on day one, but I know it took a lot of people some time to see what was obvious to me.


----------



## alex0816

Chip Chipperson said:


> Bro, keep up to date. None of us really watch anymore, out of all of the Angry Aussies I think Cult03 watches highlights, I'm on another break because of just how bad it is and The Wood hasn't watched in months. Two Sheds and Hammerstone are our only two mates who watch and they tell us whether to bother or not which is awesome because I trust those guys and can just watch what they say is good.
> 
> It's also been revealed on this forum that Cult03 works as a teacher, I have a full time job and run an independent promotion here in Sydney whilst The Wood is employed also.
> 
> We're allowed to be critical and hope for better.


so you guys don't even watch yet still bitch and moan everyday because of what you hear from your fellow AEW disliker?.........that's even weirder then watching something you don't like every week and bitching, wtf lmaoooo

ok and? i work a full time job, i know plenty of other people who work full time jobs, have hobbies, girlfriends, ect. who watch and like AEW every week. your little jobless, basement comment was some dumb shit. 

y'all seem to have too much time on your hands posting 100s of messages a day on a forum about a wrestling show you dislike when you supposedly work full time jobs. just saying. criticize if you want, but doing so when you don't even watch and ony go by someone who doesn't like AEW is rediculous, but nothing surprises me with some of strange cats


----------



## One Shed

prosperwithdeen said:


> -Cornette threads being banned is a good thing. They just lead to the same "post wars" that they lead to here. They should be banned on WF as well. Who gives a shit what he or Meltzer think they're not active posters. We know Cornette unauthentically does it on purpose because he's asked to by AEW detractors and we know Meltzer is most likely on the payroll. I only care to read opinions from people who I can engage with.


I am annoyed by the Cornette threads and I am a fan of Cornette. Not every thought or word he speaks should be getting a thread on here. It is hilarious how much space he occupies in AEW hardcore apologists minds though. You can see references to things he says and does many times on AEW's TV though. They may hate him, but EVERYONE there is listening to every word he says. I hope it helps them improve.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Oh, I get it.
> 
> You critics just want to have your own echo chamber so that the majority of the posts here on the AEW section can be negative, and where you get to obnoxiously criticize the product without getting called out. That’s why you’re suggesting the passionate fans to go post elsewhere if they feel like praising the product.
> 
> I’d love to break it to you (and the other critics), but that’s not going to happen at all as long as AEW *continues* to deliver an entertaining product on a weekly basis.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> The last couple of previous posts up above gets a big yikes from me. This is why AEW shouldn’t listen to some of you bitter critics. It’s always the same pessimistic song from you people.


Here is my ignore list. Who is wanting an echo chamber again?


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

El Hammerstone said:


> Doesn't seem you get it at all; I couldn't possibly care less whether you stay or leave. * I'd love to break it to you as well, that I and the others don't plan to leave anytime soon either;* we will continue to give our honest assessments on what we see, and if you have an issue with that, then I suggest you notify someone who cares.


Oh but of course..


----------



## El Hammerstone

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Oh but of course..


If you're implying I watch the show on a weekly basis, you'd be mistaken.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Two Sheds said:


> Here is my ignore list. Who is wanting an echo chamber again?
> 
> View attachment 94029


Hell, I may as well chime in too:


----------



## DaSlacker

the_hound said:


> anybody remember when demos didn't mater?


I'll raise you. Anybody remember when ratings didn't really matter?

I'm old enough to remember when Dave only mentioned them briefly and WWF and their alternative(s) just did their thing every week. Some watched, many didn't but would take the piss out of those who did. This is prior to like, 1994.


----------



## Prosper

Two Sheds said:


> I am annoyed by the Cornette threads and I am a fan of Cornette. Not every thought or word he speaks should be getting a thread on here. It is hilarious how much space he occupies in AEW hardcore apologists minds though. You can see references to things he says and does many times on AEW's TV though. They may hate him, but EVERYONE there is listening to every word he says. I hope it helps them improve.


It's annoying. Every now and then I will listen to 1-2 minute clips of Cornette and I quickly realized that a lot of the stuff I see posted here are just echoes of his exact words. Some are just playing follow the leader and jumping on the bandwagon instead of watching the show and coming up with their own opinions on why something is good or bad to them. They need Cornette to form their thoughts and opinions for them, then they come here to regurgitate them, holding on to his every word as some kind of biblical truth. I am convinced that there are people here and in other places who have their own thoughts, then they listen to Cornette, have him convince them that they are wrong about said thoughts, then they just go with it. "I enjoyed this but Cornette didn't so I guess I'm wrong! Let's shit on what I thought was OK at first!" Lol its comical.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

El Hammerstone said:


> If you're implying I watch the show on a weekly basis, you'd be mistaken.


Nah.


----------



## One Shed

prosperwithdeen said:


> It's annoying. Every now and then I will listen to 1-2 minute clips of Cornette and I quickly realized that a lot of the stuff I see posted here are just echoes of his exact words. Some are just playing follow the leader and jumping on the bandwagon instead of watching the show and coming up with their own opinions on why something is good or bad to them. They need Cornette to form their thoughts and opinions for them, then they come here to regurgitate them, holding on to his every word as some kind of biblical truth. I am convinced that there are people here and in other places who have their own thoughts, then they listen to Cornette, have him convince them that they are wrong about said thoughts, then they just go with it. "I enjoyed this but Cornette didn't so I guess I'm wrong! Let's shit on what I thought was OK at first!" Lol its comical.


Yeah, there definitely is a lot of that. Not just with Cornette but life in general. See Trump, Donald.

I listen to Cornette because he entertains me, even though I do disagree with him on many things. I have listed those things out before for those interested. The big things being he likes John Cena and I hate him. He also immediately considers someone dead to him who does something insulting to the business. He hates Kenny Omega because he wrestled a doll and a twelve year old. Now, I hate that he did that, but he did not do it in AEW, so I am OK with him in AEW. I can separate those universes, but apparently Jim cannot. I still find him entertaining though. I do often see phrases Jim uses in people's posts, and I have done that too but mostly because I think he is very good at phrasing things in a way that gets a point across in a succinct manner, although he certainly can be VERY verbose too. Recently I very much enjoyed the phrase "if you come out of the clown car, you're one of the clowns."


----------



## DammitChrist

El Hammerstone said:


> Doesn't seem you get it at all; I couldn't possibly care less whether you stay or leave. I'd love to break it to you as well, that I and the others don't plan to leave anytime soon either; we will continue to give our honest assessments on what we see, and if you have an issue with that, then I suggest you notify someone who cares.


You're already notifying me, 'm8;' so I guess you do care after all.

Anyway, our side (who are actually honest btw) will gladly continue proving you hacks wrong with your nonstop pessimism.


----------



## Dickhead1990

Chip Chipperson said:


> If most AEW/hardcore wrestling fans weren't broke and living at their parents house it'd become a much more attractive demographic.
> 
> Nobody wants to advertise to a bunch of nerdy AEW fans unfortunately. WWE still offers the much more appealing fan base.


In that age group, I can safely say I earn a fair bit above that wage and own my home (two if you count my partner's, which we let) - I'm 30 by the way.

With that said, this demographic has a tendency to impulsively spend money. Go to most gigs and you will see people in their twenties - people from their thirties onwards are too tired to do this (I am now here sadly - though not such a loss this year!). They're very impressionable too and will buy the merch and share their hauls and fandom on social media. For this reason I would call them the most important demographic - so would many analysts no doubt. 

The one advantage of the older demographic is that they may take their kids to shows and buy them merch, but which of the two scenarios seems more likely in reality?


----------



## El Hammerstone

DammitChrist said:


> You're already notifying me, 'm8;' so I guess you do care after all.
> 
> Anyway, our side (who are actually honest btw) will gladly continue proving you hacks wrong with your nonstop pessimism.


Nah man, just wanted to save you the time and effort out of the kindness of my heart, you're welcome btw


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

This section really is full of immature humans.


----------



## DammitChrist

Two Sheds said:


> Many people who like him on here have been vocal in him getting tiresome/not belonging in the upper card. The tide has definitely shifted on here and you have to have noticed it. I will continue with what I saw as obvious: he is a one dimensional wooden character and bit part player. There is no way to evolve or grow his character. Someone like him can work in front of a live crowd in a middle school gym "packed" with 187 people, but on national TV every week it wears out and quickly. We have seen that happen in front of our eyes over the summer and as I said, most of his defenders are saying things like "I like him, but he should be in the mid card" or "OK he had his moment with Jericho, but enough now."
> 
> For ratings, I have already posted them before. Most of his segments over the summer were middle of the road to poor except for the one that Bischoff appeared on for the first time in 20 years on TNT and his appearance was leaked a full weak before it happened.
> 
> OC had a match with Brodie Lee's small child on the PPV and then with the second best known person on the show with the name of Kip this week. Hardly compelling. The experiment failed. Luckily Tony Khan seems to have realized that and has enough business sense to stop it now. Like I said, I give him credit for that and praise the company for acting on evidence. Thankfully the debate seems to have closed now with him dropping down the card because most fans who did like him have soured on him. I saw through him on day one, but I know it took a lot of people some time to see what was obvious to me.


Except the experiment hasn't "failed" at all considering the fact that Cassidy is still over as hell with the wrestling audience, and he's still continuing to get TV time with plenty of victories as well. He still gets plenty of fan support in spite of the vocal minority who frequently whines about his existence on AEW, and he'll inevitably get pushed more in the future in 2021. 

That debate (thankfully) won't close at all until Cassidy decides to retire; which won't be happening for a long time to our benefit


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> You're already notifying me, 'm8;' so I guess you do care after all.
> 
> Anyway, our side (who are actually honest btw) will gladly continue proving you hacks wrong with your nonstop pessimism.


Not sure why there is a need to personally insult people.

I have had many conversations with @The Wood @Chip Chipperson @Cult03 @El Hammerstone @bdon and also yourself, @The Definition of Technician @prosperwithdeen @Optikk is All Elite etc etc, and find all of you to be ultimately honest people, just disagreeing on what you like. There are some bad actors on here, but not a ton.


----------



## DammitChrist

Two Sheds said:


> Here is my ignore list. Who is wanting an echo chamber again?
> 
> View attachment 94029


Come on, man. That's a pointless response.

I have nobody on my ignore list either, and I'm not pleading for an echo chamber like some of the other critics here.


----------



## Dickhead1990

Two Sheds said:


> I am annoyed by the Cornette threads and I am a fan of Cornette. Not every thought or word he speaks should be getting a thread on here. It is hilarious how much space he occupies in AEW hardcore apologists minds though. You can see references to things he says and does many times on AEW's TV though. They may hate him, but EVERYONE there is listening to every word he says. I hope it helps them improve.


Am I the only one that finds Cornette himself a despicably annoying old bag, regardless of any opinions that he has? He is just the most agonising person in the world to listen to. I don't even care if he's right, I just don't want hear his voice or see his stroke-inducing face.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Except the experiment hasn't "failed" at all considering the fact that Cassidy is still over as hell with the wrestling audience, and he's still continuing to get TV time with plenty of victories as well. He still gets plenty of fan support in spite of the vocal minority who frequently whines about his existence on AEW, and he'll inevitably get pushed more in the future in 2021.
> 
> That debate (thankfully) won't close at all until Cassidy decides to retire; which won't be happening for a long time to our benefit


Taking whether we like him or not out of the equation, you have to admit he has dropped objectively on the card, no? Going from beating Chris Jericho to wrestling John Silver and Kip Sabian is solid undercard usage, yes?


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Come on, man. That's a pointless response.
> 
> I have nobody on my ignore list either, and I'm not pleading for an echo chamber like some of the other critics here.


As I just said in my other reply, I find you to be an honest person, though we obviously disagree on many topics, so I did not mean to imply that you specifically want an echo chamber. I do find that several of the hardcore defenders of everything AEW does who frequently make posts begging people who have criticisms to stop watching the show do want that echo chamber though. I do not see the critics calling for people to stop posting or putting people on ignore.


----------



## DaSlacker

Two Sheds said:


> Yeah, there definitely is a lot of that. Not just with Cornette but life in general. See Trump, Donald.
> 
> I listen to Cornette because he entertains me, even though I do disagree with him on many things. I have listed those things out before for those interested. The big things being he likes John Cena and I hate him. He also immediately considers someone dead to him who does something insulting to the business. He hates Kenny Omega because he wrestled a doll and a twelve year old. Now, I hate that he did that, but he did not do it in AEW, so I am OK with him in AEW. I can separate those universes, but apparently Jim cannot. I still find him entertaining though. I do often see phrases Jim uses in people's posts, and I have done that too but mostly because I think he is very good at phrasing things in a way that gets a point across in a succinct manner, although he certainly can be VERY verbose too. Recently I very much enjoyed the phrase "if you come out of the clown car, you're one of the clowns."


He's very dismissive of 'girls wrestling', which he seems to pigeonhole as strictly a subset part of a show. Like a light heavyweight or hardcore division. He also seems to believe foreign born, non English speaking wrestlers (especially female ones) should be kept to an absolute minimum. He'll not often watch an Asuka match - if he did he'd certainly fast forward through a Shirai match.


----------



## One Shed

Dickhead1990 said:


> Am I the only one that finds Cornette himself a despicably annoying old bag, regardless of any opinions that he has? He is just the most agonising person in the world to listen to. I don't even care if he's right, I just don't want hear his voice or see his stroke-inducing face.


Like I said, I do find him very entertaining even if I disagree with him. I am not sure I would get along with him in real life as I cannot ever see myself grabbing a baseball bat and breaking my own car or threatening another human being with bodily harm over just some opposing viewpoint. I have said many times I think Jim is legit nuts and he at least admits he has anger issues that he cannot help, but tries to keep himself out of situations where he might lose control nowadays. At least he seems to be a bit self aware of that.


----------



## One Shed

DaSlacker said:


> He's very dismissive of 'girls wrestling', which he seems to pigeonhole as strictly a subset part of a show. Like a light heavyweight or hardcore division. He also seems to believe foreign born, non English speaking wrestlers (especially female ones) should be kept to an absolute minimum. He'll not often watch an Asuka match - if he did he'd certainly fast forward through a Shirai match.


Yeah, I know. He often times lets a bad experience cloud his view of a group of people, which does not make sense to me at all. I try (but sometimes fail) at looking at everyone as an individual and not as a member of a group. That is why I am a big fan of Asuka and Shida, but not so much of Riho. That they happen to all be Japanese does not matter to me at all.

For women's wrestling overall, I know he is not a huge fan, but he should not be required to like something he does not like. I think he believes because women's sports overall are not the draw that men's sports are (an objective fact), that women's wrestling does not draw as much. Now we can debate what those reasons are, but I think the overall drawing aspect is not disputable.


----------



## LongPig666

omaroo said:


> Their brand is not as strong or recognised globally like WWE.


That is changing rapidly. In the UK for example - a significant wrestling market - is destroying WWE in ratings. Even Impact is getting rated over NXT. NXT UK is pretty much dead (apart from in Wales) and its main feeder promotion, 'Progress', is rudderless and not doing much.

The last wrestling show I went to last year, people were actually joking that Royal Quest at the Copper Box got more live attendance than NXT viewers in Cardiff.


----------



## Metalhead1

This is good, it shows WWE that they need to step up their product. Although I do feel bad; I like NXT a million times better than Raw or Smackdown.


----------



## The Wood

3venflow said:


> Agreed. I still look forward to Dynamite every week, which is the longest run of this happening since RAW around the turn of the millenium. It's a very imperfect product, but still the best weekly TV from an American wrestling company I've seen in some years.
> 
> Judging from the quote messages, the ratings thread - like the last one - has been hijacked again because we're not allowed to say nice things.
> 
> It's their best rating since September and considering every show is 'awful' in the eyes of the aforementioned people, surely they have been doing something right in recent weeks.
> 
> It's still a better rating than 5 of the 12 Dynamites in 2019, including the opening three shows which had the 'new show' bump (1m+). So while they may not have grown their audience much, they have retained much of it and have a sustainable fan base which is a good thing, especially given the unforeseen obstacles (pandemic, travel restrictions) that has affected the industry as a whole. The industry leader, WWE, has continued to lose TV viewers and RAW was down 37% from 2019 a couple of months ago.
> 
> As for demos not being important... the industry websites ranks ratings by the 'key demo' rather than total numbers and it is the first metric in their rundowns. That says it all and it is really an invented argument that they are irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATED: SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Top 150 Wednesday Cable Originals & Network Finals: 11.18.2020 | Showbuzz Daily
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.showbuzzdaily.com


Stop being dramatic. Just because people discuss opposition viewpoints, it doesn’t mean they are “hijacking” a thread. It’d be great if people could back up the “nice things” they are saying without slinging mud and breaking down, which you have tried to do, so let’s actually discuss.

I’m glad you enjoy it, but it is far from the most enjoyable product from North America since the dawn of the century. I think SmackDown is better now (What in AEW is as good as the Reigns/Usos story? Who can talk as good as Heyman? Who can wrestle as good as D-Bry?). NXT has been better (especially when it was one hour and really firing) and some would argue TNA, ROH and the NWA, at certain points, have been more enjoyable. But that’s just preference.

What does having their highest rating since September really mean? That was two months ago. There was still a pandemic, still election hoopla, still news on TV — do you understand why people think it is silly that people get so bent out of shape about their highest rating in eight weeks?

Raw might be down, but it is also their second-most important show with a three-hour format that is, frankly, inherently exhausting. How has SmackDown been doing with shirtless Roman Reigns? If that product isn’t for you, that’s fine, but if you’re going to say nice things about AEW _because_ they haven’t dropped, then surely that should be an industry standard, right?

People misrepresent the “demo is not important argument.” It’s really a “demo is not as important as people make it out to be argument. You literally have people saying “Only the demo matters.” Tony Khan has said that. That is just not true, and if you want to use your own argument, why report on anything else if just one segment is important? Why get so bent out of shape when AEW barely edges out Raw in a sub-category if they don’t matter? It’s very selective.

How important do you think Showbuzz is? What do you actually think they are and what do you think they provide? When you go to the Nielsen website, which I admittedly haven’t done in a while, you see articles about convincing Asian-Americans to start watching television, and how the LGBT+ viewers churn out. Breaking things down by 18-49 individuals and that’s it — forget their ethnic background, gender, financial status, religious beliefs, cultural background, marital status and political beliefs — we just want to know their age — is fucking childish if you think about it for just one minute. *No one* has refuted that since I’ve been bringing it up. Because it makes too much sense and everyone knows it.

Companies *do* need to market to 50+. Especially if Gen-X and the boomers still have all the money. Life insurance, medical appliances, lifestyle products, etc. These are also the sponsors AEW and NXT seem to attract, by the way (last time I checked). If these people have children, or grandchildren, there is value in advertising to them. To pretend that they just “don’t matter” while at the same time pretending that 18-49 year olds have endless flows of disposable income in 2020 is a completely reductionist take.

And let’s been honest: the key demo is being touted because it’s an area that makes AEW look better. Back prior to Dynamite’s launch, how often did it come up? With Meltzer and Alvarez it was all about viewership. Viewership, viewership, viewership. Why? Because when it comes to “key demo,” Raw was consistently in the top five slots, keeping in mind that all three hours are ranked separately.

Now we get stories about the 18-34 and the percentage of people in a household that are allegedly huddled around the TV marking out. Come on.

The demos obviously have some value. They’re data. Often unreliable data, and data that the value of can be questioned, but data nonetheless. But how people use and interpret that data is open to discussion. It’s not some objective measure of power in the industry or even enjoyment of the product.



LongPig666 said:


> That is changing rapidly. In the UK for example - a significant wrestling market - is destroying WWE in ratings. Even Impact is getting rated over NXT. NXT UK is pretty much dead (apart from in Wales) and its main feeder promotion, 'Progress', is rudderless and not doing much.
> 
> The last wrestling show I went to last year, people were actually joking that Royal Quest at the Copper Box got more live attendance than NXT viewers in Cardiff.


Everybody knows that AEW is on a far more accessible channel than WWE, who chose a premium one because they got paid more for it. This argument is disingenuous.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Stop being dramatic. Just because people discuss opposition viewpoints, it doesn’t mean they are “hijacking” a thread. It’d be great if people could back up the “nice things” they are saying without slinging mud and breaking down, which you have tried to do, so let’s actually discuss.
> 
> I’m glad you enjoy it, but it is far from the most enjoyable product from North America since the dawn of the century. I think SmackDown is better now (What in AEW is as good as the Reigns/Usos story? Who can talk as good as Heyman? Who can wrestle as good as D-Bry?). NXT has been better (especially when it was one hour and really firing) and some would argue TNA, ROH and the NWA, at certain points, have been more enjoyable. But that’s just preference.
> 
> What does having their highest rating since September really mean? That was two months ago. There was still a pandemic, still election hoopla, still news on TV — do you understand why people think it is silly that people get so bent out of shape about their highest rating in eight weeks?
> 
> Raw might be down, but it is also their second-most important show with a three-hour format that is, frankly, inherently exhausting. How has SmackDown been doing with shirtless Roman Reigns? If that product isn’t for you, that’s fine, but if you’re going to say nice things about AEW _because_ they haven’t dropped, then surely that should be an industry standard, right?
> 
> People misrepresent the “demo is not important argument.” It’s really a “demo is not as important as people make it out to be argument. You literally have people saying “Only the demo matters.” Tony Khan has said that. That is just not true, and if you want to use your own argument, why report on anything else if just one segment is important? Why get so bent out of shape when AEW barely edges out Raw in a sub-category if they don’t matter? It’s very selective.
> 
> How important do you think Showbuzz is? What do you actually think they are and what do you think they provide? When you go to the Nielsen website, which I admittedly haven’t done in a while, you see articles about convincing Asian-Americans to start watching television, and how the LGBT+ viewers churn out. Breaking things down by 18-49 individuals and that’s it — forget their ethnic background, gender, financial status, religious beliefs, cultural background, marital status and political beliefs — we just want to know their age — is fucking childish if you think about it for just one minute. *No one* has refuted that since I’ve been bringing it up. Because it makes too much sense and everyone knows it.
> 
> Companies *do* need to market to 50+. Especially if Gen-X and the boomers still have all the money. Life insurance, medical appliances, lifestyle products, etc. These are also the sponsors AEW and NXT seem to attract, by the way (last time I checked). If these people have children, or grandchildren, there is value in advertising to them. To pretend that they just “don’t matter” while at the same time pretending that 18-49 year olds have endless flows of disposable income in 2020 is a completely reductionist take.
> 
> And let’s been honest: the key demo is being touted because it’s an area that makes AEW look better. Back prior to Dynamite’s launch, how often did it come up? With Meltzer and Alvarez it was all about viewership. Viewership, viewership, viewership. Why? Because when it comes to “key demo,” Raw was consistently in the top five slots, keeping in mind that all three hours are ranked separately.
> 
> Now we get stories about the 18-34 and the percentage of people in a household that are allegedly huddled around the TV marking out. Come on.
> 
> The demos obviously have some value. They’re data. Often unreliable data, and data that the value of can be questioned, but data nonetheless. But how people use and interpret that data is open to discussion. It’s not some objective measure of power in the industry or even enjoyment of the product.
> 
> 
> 
> Everybody knows that AEW is on a far more accessible channel than WWE, who chose a premium one because they got paid more for it. This argument is disingenuous.


It breaks your heart to hear any positive AEW news. Lol


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Dickhead1990 said:


> Am I the only one that finds Cornette himself a despicably annoying old bag, regardless of any opinions that he has? He is just the most agonising person in the world to listen to. I don't even care if he's right, I just don't want hear his voice or see his stroke-inducing face.


I was convinced he was a Southpark character when I first heard him, sounds like a lunatic man-child on the verge of heart attack


----------



## La Parka

Dickhead1990 said:


> Am I the only one that finds Cornette himself a despicably annoying old bag, regardless of any opinions that he has? He is just the most agonising person in the world to listen to. I don't even care if he's right, I just don't want hear his voice or see his stroke-inducing face.


Yes, you are the first to have this opinion. 

No one has ever been of the opinion that Jim Cornette is old and annoying. 

Thank you for sharing this.


----------



## The Wood

RapShepard said:


> Raw vs Dynamite
> Raw had Monday Night Football
> Dynamite had NXT and the NBA Draft


So AEW are behind in roughly 0.2 if you want to do cross-night comparisons (which actually probably favour AEW most weeks), except for people 18-34 and girls and women. Get Roman Reigns shirtless on Raw and thats



fabi1982 said:


> Again, where did I expose myself that I am a WWE chill? What is that exaclty in your mind? Because I dont parade things like this? You said "A win is a win", *but hey stop here*, when NXT beat AEW in viewers but still lost in "the demo" you guys said AEW still won, because "the demo". *Looking at @RapShepard post above you, I still see RAW being better in the demo (by up to 50%), so where is that win for you? When usually the demo is where a win or loss is happening?* (fancy I can go bold and underlined, too). Do you see people in a decathlon go parade their win in the pole vault, when they end up losing the whole thing (the demo)? I never saw that happening. So I can do that too, you are an AEW chill and defend everything and try to pick things out of perspective to have your way. So what now? We both chills? Hmm doesnt feel so good, right?
> 
> And I am interested how long this "AEW is still new" will work for guys like you. 2 more years? 10? And then you go and say things like "out of touch", "take a chill pill", so where are your arguments? And yes they rebound from the low at the beginning of the COVID era, but what defines "strong" here? Your own opinion defines that and you guess what? That is fine with me. So at the end "we haters" should except your opinion, but you dare to except ours? Thats a foul right here. But hey, same same but different, right? You go girl!!






TKO Wrestling said:


> WE ARE TIRED OF LOGGING ON AND 75% OF THE POSTS ARE NEGATIVE


Then maybe the product shouldn’t be bad? 



Klitschko said:


> I swear, I really don't remember demo ever being spoken about when it came to TNA vs WWE or WCW vs WWE. Nobody says what the demo was during the attitude era. All anyone talks about is the millions of fans that were there. Why did demo become important all of a sudden in the last year that AEW was created? Legit question.


They would come up sometimes, but then got ignored because they still placed Raw and SmackDown quite highly, and there’s no story there for Meltzer and Alvarez to blast WWE with. They’ve come back with AEW vs. NXT, because with NXT on the Network, it’s an area AEW will win most of the tome



The Definition of Technician said:


> No, I am an AEW Fan. You are a WWE chill because you find a way to shit on AEW's product when it's not relevant and shit on whatever success they have because you can't seem to fathom the idea of a new company coming and challenging your precious little WWE.
> 
> We're talking the demo18-34 now, not 18-49. But I guess I should start expecting more people on this forum to have bad reading comprehension skills or maybe use deflecting as tactic to stray away from the argument. Go read my posts from above to understand why 18-34 is a win.
> 
> Out of touch? yeah you are out of touch if you think AEW was supposed to beat RAW in 1 year's time or even come close to it, so when you go brag about RAW beating them and we're like "yeah, so?" and you pretend its something worth talking about, you become a WWE chill and laughing stock for us fans who never claimed AEW is going to be beating RAW anytime soon in key demo or total viewership.
> 
> The strong growth I'm talking about is a 25-30% rise, it's not an opinion, it's a fact that such a % rise is looked at very favorably, aka strong.
> 
> you not thinking it's significant makes you look even less credible and more delusional with your ridiculous standards of what a new company should be drawing in 1 year, in a niche market, vs a competition backed by a company that have dominated the market for 40 years.
> 
> This is the list of a typical someone i look down on and think he's nothing but a troll/WWE Chill/complete moron
> 
> 
> Anyone who thinks ratings from 10 years ago are comparable to now, for example, anyone who brings what numbers TNA did thinking he has some sort of talking point
> Anyone who thinks their debut 1.4m was their base, and still brings this argument up now a year later
> Anyone who thinks competition shouldn't have an effect on viewership
> 
> 
> Strictly demo talk? It's always been talked about. You can see for yourself probably hundreds of posts talking about demo in RAW/SD ratings threads before AEW. Of course, it wasn't talked about as pre-AEW, but it was still discussed.
> 
> I don't know the demos for AttitudeEra, but I'm willing to assume that no one is going to bring up demo if it's relatively similar to the competitor. Example: WWE beats WCW 20% more in total viewership, and 20% more in demo. Not really important to discuss.
> If they're beating with 20% more viewership and 50% more in demo, then it could have been a talking point for how much better WWE is doing, if WCW had been beating them in demo while losing in total viewership you'd have definitely seen it.
> 
> What we're seeing now is AEW beating NXT in total viewers, and absolutely crushing them in demo, even when they lose vs NXT they still beat them in demo. It's important when we look at rankings and see AEW up by more than 30 spots on NXT due to it.


Normally I would bite my tongue, but since you brag about your own intelligence and did so in this post: you do know it’s “WWE shill” right? Not “WWE chill.”



Two Sheds said:


> I have started calling it schizophrenic booking because I think it really helps get the point across. The show is very disjointed. I would love to have a consultant really be able to analyze them seeing who does what behind the scenes to eliminate the nonsense. The problem they would likely run into is the source of that is likely too high up to do anything about.
> 
> AEW does feel more and more like WWE the longer they continue. We literally had Hornswoggle in a diaper this week.


Did they really have Hornswoggle in a diaper? Holy shit. How can people defend this shit? 



The Raw Smackdown said:


> You know what else works? Not fucking watching and doing something else.


Okay, you go do that. Don’t police others. 



DammitChrist said:


> Oh, I get it.
> 
> You critics just want to have your own echo chamber so that the majority of the posts here on the AEW section can be negative, and where you get to obnoxiously criticize the product without getting called out. That’s why you’re suggesting the passionate fans to go post elsewhere if they feel like praising the product.
> 
> I’d love to break it to you (and the other critics), but that’s not going to happen at all as long as AEW *continues* to deliver an entertaining product on a weekly basis.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> The last couple of previous posts up above gets a big yikes from me. This is why AEW shouldn’t listen to some of you bitter critics. It’s always the same pessimistic song from you people.


How did you get that from anyone’s post. It’s your side asking us to leave all the time. No one tries to force you out. 



DaSlacker said:


> He's very dismissive of 'girls wrestling', which he seems to pigeonhole as strictly a subset part of a show. Like a light heavyweight or hardcore division. He also seems to believe foreign born, non English speaking wrestlers (especially female ones) should be kept to an absolute minimum. He'll not often watch an Asuka match - if he did he'd certainly fast forward through a Shirai match.


When it comes to women’s wrestling, I think Cornette is actually making a very valid point in a rarely non-direct way for him.

Keep in mind that this is the guy who worked for the LPWA and has trained quite a few female workers, and speaks VERY highly of some. Charlotte Flair, Tessa Blanchard, Gail Kim, Awesome Kong, Rhea Ripley, Toni Storm, Ronda Rousey, Bayley, Sasha Banks, Victoria, Jillian Hall, etc. He likes women’s workers, he just doesn’t grade them on a curve or pretend that they should all be presented as world-class ass-kickers just because they’re there.

Cornette likes women workers wrestling, but he’s not too big on Divas doing dives. Now, does he draw the line where a lot of fans do? I think a lot of people on the internet would disagree, but I think Corny is kind of doing a “voice of the Everyman” kind of thing here. When he talks about skipping ahead during their matches, he is doing his impression of the impression someone gets from this stuff.

It’s arguable that Cornette is right in how women should be used. Like anything they need to be emphasised the right way. When they’re a main event attraction, let them be a main event attraction. When they’re special, let them be special. But when you do a men’s version of a match and then a women’s version of a match, it rings hollow. It doesn’t even feel progressive to me.

When it comes to foreign talent, I can get how it feels problematic and/or archaic, but how many Japanese pop-stars can you name? How many Japanese actors? I can name Beat Kitano. That’s about it. You need to be able to connect. That doesn’t necessarily require English promos, but it does require something that is going to break down barriers that are still (unfortunately) there.


----------



## One Shed

The Wood said:


> Did they really have Hornswoggle in a diaper? Holy shit. How can people defend this shit?


Oh, they did. I would post evidence but I just never want to see it again and would not wish that image to be forced upon you or anyone else.


----------



## DammitChrist

Two Sheds said:


> Taking whether we like him or not out of the equation, you have to admit he has dropped objectively on the card, no? Going from beating Chris Jericho to wrestling John Silver and Kip Sabian is solid undercard usage, yes?


Alright, yea, he's currently booked to be on the sidelines atm. I still think that Orange Cassidy is going to win the TNT title at some point eventually when the opportunity arises for him.


----------



## Cult03

DammitChrist said:


> Yikes, you’re giving off Donald Trump vibes here atm. You might want to dial back the ridiculousness please for our sake here.


Like I said earlier, skewing numbers when getting less overall viewers sounds more like a Trump thing doesn't it? Isn't this exactly what the AEW super fans did on Halloween? Anyway I'm done with this conversation. Ratings aren't the be all, end all, I'm not a troll and never have been, AEW super fans are impossible to have a discussion with, AEW should be flogging NXT weekly, I'm not a WWE shill and rarely even watch any of their shows anymore and AEW could be better. I'm not wrong about any of this. Enjoy your hollow wins, I'd rather just enjoy the show.


----------



## Klitschko

Two Sheds said:


> Oh, they did. I would post evidence but I just never want to see it again and would not wish that image to be forced upon you or anyone else.


You know what really made me laugh. Didn't Cody say just few days ago that AEW would not pretend there was an imaginary camera following people around and then then they do that segment.


----------



## Cult03

TKO Wrestling said:


> No one says that it shouldn't be objective but you have people on here literally hating every single segment of every show. Which is fine, don't watch. But when the general public hasn't quit watching it, something is making someone happy. It just gets fucking old. The highest post counts here are the ones constantly talking shit.


That's not true. The people that are constantly getting into arguments about themselves aren't the people hating on every single segment. It's just not true and the more you guys say it the more this myth is perpetuated because AEW super fans need to be the victims, the underdogs. It's not lost on me that the highest post counts are those that justify their opinions. Maybe if AEW super fans didn't just come in, say "I loved that" and not have an actual discussion then they too, would be top posters..


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Cult03 said:


> That's not true. The people that are constantly getting into arguments about themselves aren't the people hating on every single segment. It's just not true and the more you guys say it the more this myth is perpetuated because AEW super fans need to be the victims, the underdogs. It's not lost on me that the highest post counts are those that justify their opinions. Maybe if AEW super fans didn't just come in, say "I loved that" and not have an actual discussion then they too, would be top posters..


Why the hell should anyone have to go in depth as to why they like something? If they want to just say "I like that" Then let them say it. You want people do discuss things so you and your little friends can shit on them. That's all this is.


----------



## Cult03

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Why the hell should anyone have to go in depth as to why they like something? If they want to just say "I like that" Then let them say it. You want people do discuss things so you and your little friends can shit on them. That's all this is.


Nah, this is why reading comprehension is a good skill to have. You see, that one line you attempted to spin was completely reliant on becoming "top posters", which was in response to TKO complaining about who the top posters were. 

By the way, forums are discussion boards. That's why people should go in depth about what they like. To create discussion. That makes sense right?


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Cult03 said:


> Nah, this is why reading comprehension is a good skill to have. You see, that one line you attempted to spin was completely reliant on becoming "top posters", which was in response to TKO complaining about who the top posters were.
> 
> By the way, forums are discussion boards. That's why people should go in depth about what they like. To create discussion. That makes sense right?


It really doesn't matter what the fuck it was in response to. My point still stands. Maybe @ the person you're addressing next time. You're aware you can do that right? 

And secondly. This is a discussion board but anyone can post in any fucking manner they want you don't get to tell anyone how to post.


----------



## Cult03

The Raw Smackdown said:


> It really doesn't matter what the fuck it was in response to. My point still stands. Maybe @ the person you're addressing next time. You're aware you can do that right?
> 
> And secondly. This is a discussion board but anyone can post in any fucking manner they want you don't get to tell anyone how to post.


Context does matter and your point is shit. I 100% did @ the person I was addressing. Are you sure you even meant to respond to me? This entire interaction is embarrassing for you.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Cult03 said:


> Context does matter and your point is shit. I 100% did @ the person I was addressing. Are you sure you even meant to respond to me? This entire interaction is embarrassing for you.


----------



## Cult03

The Raw Smackdown said:


> View attachment 94041


This would have been where a normal person would have said "my mistake, I was wrong" but instead I get a weird gif implying you're leaving the conversation after being proven incorrect? I understand the kind of people I am talking to more and more every day.


----------



## kyledriver

Omg so many entitled douchebags [emoji23]

Always a good read 

Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Cult03 said:


> This would have been where a normal person would have said "my mistake, I was wrong" but instead I get a weird gif implying you're leaving the conversation after being proven incorrect? I understand the kind of people I am talking to more and more every day.


I wasn't proven wrong because you didn't do what you say you did. At least not in that post I quoted. Just check yourself and move the hell along. 

And don't talk to me about being Normal baby because someone normal wouldn't do what you and your little friends do all the fucking time. Shit on something they don't like/don't even watch. They would've left a LONG time ago but here you are baby. Here you are. 

Now I'm OFFICIALLY done wasting my time with you. You can say whatever the hell you want. It will fall on deaf ears.


----------



## LongPig666

The Wood said:


> Everybody knows that AEW is on a far more accessible channel than WWE, who chose a premium one because they got paid more for it. This argument is disingenuous.


What a fucking ridiculous defence this is. 

WWE is getting a lot of money for doing much worse than AEW in the UK. 

/slowgolfclap for WWE plc.


----------



## CM Buck

Chip Chipperson said:


> First of all, there is a ratings thread and you've been around long enough to know this.
> 
> Second of all, nobody cares about demographic when the people who watch your show make between 0-34 thousand a year and the majority live at home or with housemates.
> 
> Third of all, overall ratings mean more and AEW only won that slightly
> 
> Fourth, AEW SHOULD be smoking NXT every week with the amount of money they've invested. You should know this Pippen.


Fifth beating raw isn't an accomplishment nowadays.

Sixth does anyone know mlws numbers for this week? If we are calling this a war we need to add modern ecw as well


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> It breaks your heart to hear any positive AEW news. Lol


He's just being real, Bdon. I agree wholeheartedly with his post.


----------



## WWFNoMercyExpert

Two Sheds said:


> Yup, that works too! More and more people have been doing exactly that for fifteen years now!
> 
> "PLEASE stop watching this show!" is a really weird strategy to build a company whose major revenue source is TV contracts though.


I am hoping that the 2020s will have a renaissance, there's already a lot more promos on actual TV than there were at the beginning of the decade and casuals seem to be engaged again with heel Reigns, the HIAC thing got mainstream attention, there are some promising acts in lower brands, all it needs is an actual megastar or two to really draw again I think.
As much as I shit-talk AEW, the competition is good.


----------



## One Shed

WWFNoMercyExpert said:


> I am hoping that the 2020s will have a renaissance, there's already a lot more promos on actual TV than there were at the beginning of the decade and casuals seem to be engaged again with heel Reigns, the HIAC thing got mainstream attention, there are some promising acts in lower brands, all it needs is an actual megastar or two to really draw again I think.
> As much as I shit-talk AEW, the competition is good.


I am 100% for competition too. Vince does his best work when he is forced to try. There are definitely a lot of feds out there now between WWE, AEW, Impact, MLW, NWA, NJPW, etc. The ground is fertile for someone to catch fire and start a new big era. I am hopeful it will happen and multiple companies can grow as a result and provide us with some quality programming.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> He's just being real, Bdon. I agree wholeheartedly with his post.


I don’t doubt that he is being honest, but I am being honest in my belief that AEW could create 5 million fans overnight, running on 166 weeks straight of dominance, and he’d still be sitting here discussing how none of it matters because x, y, and z.

I ain’t mad about it. I know he simply doesn’t like the product, but you and I both know they will receive no goodwill from our boy. Lol


----------



## Ozell Gray

NXT is a developmental so Dynamite should be getting better ratings than it because of all of the bigger names they have on there, plus those guys combined are getting a salary of about $30 million while the guys in NXT make significantly less combined so this isn't impressive. NXT is WWE's C show while Dynamite is the flagship show of AEW.


----------



## Pippen94

Firefromthegods said:


> Fifth beating raw isn't an accomplishment nowadays.
> 
> Sixth does anyone know mlws numbers for this week? If we are calling this a war we need to add modern ecw as well


Mlw a mere speck in the wrestling universe


----------



## Chip Chipperson

El Hammerstone said:


> Hell, I may as well chime in too:
> 
> View attachment 94031


Oooh my turn










Such an echo chamber.



prosperwithdeen said:


> It's annoying. Every now and then I will listen to 1-2 minute clips of Cornette


Stopped reading here. Cornette's short clips are usually 3-5 mins. Either you're being dishonest about listening or dishonest about how long.



DammitChrist said:


> Anyway, our side (who are actually honest btw) will gladly continue proving you hacks wrong with your nonstop pessimism.


You, Pippen, Prosper, Alex and Technician. What a unit!



Dickhead1990 said:


> In that age group, I can safely say I earn a fair bit above that wage and own my home (two if you count my partner's, which we let) - I'm 30 by the way.


You are in England therefore do not count just like I don't count because Aussie.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Chip Chipperson said:


> Oooh my turn
> 
> View attachment 94064
> 
> 
> Such an echo chamber.
> 
> 
> 
> Stopped reading here. Cornette's short clips are usually 3-5 mins. Either you're being dishonest about listening or dishonest about how long.
> 
> 
> 
> You, Pippen, Prosper, Alex and Technician. What a unit!
> 
> 
> 
> You are in England therefore do not count just like I don't count because Aussie.


Gotta love these AEW fanboys, so easy to piss off, so easy to annoy, they do it to themselves, doesn't make it any less fun 😂


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Gotta love these AEW fanboys, so easy to piss off, so easy to annoy, they do it to themselves, doesn't make it any less fun 😂


The passionate fans aren't nearly as whiny as the critics though. Just take a look around the AEW section with their 800+ negative posts this month alone.


----------



## WWFNoMercyExpert

Unrelated but blocking/ignoring is for thin skin weaklings, one of the things I dislike about cornette


----------



## DammitChrist

Cult03 said:


> What's with the victim complex AEW fans have *(oh the irony)*? Nobody was wishing AEW would fail. We wanted them to be great, they're average at best and we aren't excited about average so *we get called haters? Fuck you,* AEW should be better and should be getting more viewers *in your bullshit ratings war.*
> 
> @The Wood why do you care to talk about ratings from 20-30 years ago? Is it because you had higher expectations for AEW and want wrestling to be somewhat cool, like it used to be? *Instead you get dorks doing flips and cunts on the internet* who *don't actually want to have an honest discussion* about what this company is doing? Because same, mate.
> 
> We should settle for average, because *when you live in your parents basement and have nothing better going on in your life* (not aimed at anyone specific, but *AEW fans based on that Reddit demographic thread*), average is *fucking* great.


Aw, look who's throwing a petty temper tantrum.

You totally sound like a "reasonable/rational" poster who's 'definitely' worth taking seriously.


----------



## CM Buck

Pippen94 said:


> Mlw a mere speck in the wrestling universe


For now my friend. Give it time


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Also Jesus Christ you really realize what a bunch of soft cunts you lot are sometimes, must be a Non Australian thing, most non Australians are fucking soft these days though. Not everyone likes AEW, I want them to do well, I like quite a few guys on the roster, but the show still fucking sucks plain and simple, NXT sucks, AEW sucks, RAW sucks, the only watchable show right now is SmackDown. People will do anything to say that there's a legitimate war, *shut the fuck up*, it's more like a pillow fight than anything.


Except the AEW product has actually been consistently entertaining lately, especially since the go-home episode for Full Gear. The same goes with NXT being a good wrestling show over the past month.

How about you actually go take your own advice with the bolded instead of making stupid generalizations about how other people are like in cultures different from yours, instead of pretending the wrestling shows you dislike are somehow "terrible," and instead of silencing passionate fans who genuinely enjoy the product? 

Quit being a soft goof.


----------



## Kentucky34

DammitChrist said:


> Except the AEW product has actually been consistently entertaining lately, especially since the go-home episode for Full Gear. The same goes with NXT being a good wrestling show over the past month.
> 
> How about you actually go take your own advice with the bolded instead of making stupid generalizations about how other people are like in cultures different from yours, instead of pretending the wrestling shows you dislike are somehow "terrible," and instead of silencing passionate fans who genuinely enjoy the product?
> 
> Quit being a soft goof.


It is only your opinion that AEW has been entertaining lately.

I and others think it has been very poor. NXT has been much better in my opinion.


----------



## DammitChrist

Kentucky34 said:


> It is only your opinion that AEW has been entertaining lately.
> 
> I and others think it has been very poor. NXT has been much better in my opinion.


It is only your opinion that AEW hasn't been entertaining lately.

I (along with the others) think it has been very good. Dynamite has been just as good as NXT (if not, then even better).

See, it's pretty easy just going with the lazy 'opinions' route too : punk2


----------



## Kentucky34

DammitChrist said:


> It is only your opinion that AEW hasn't been entertaining lately.
> 
> I (along with the others) think it has been very good. Dynamite has been just as good as NXT (if not, then even better).
> 
> See, it's pretty easy just going with the lazy 'opinions' route too : punk2


Many others think that Dynamite has been mostly poor since its debut. 

The fact that its audience is half what it was for its debut episode proves that.


----------



## WWFNoMercyExpert

What I don’t understand about Dynamite and AEW is why they save the wrestlecrap for the PPVs, Dynamite can be watchable but some of the PPVs post-pandemic have been rough


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lol, this thread has turned into the drizzling shits

fans vs critics who don‘t watch - who will ignore who? who will stop watching? who will actually start? Echo chamberrr!

honest truth is 90% of you (us) hate-read this forum just like we hate-watched RAW in the olden days

in a lot of ways its an addiction - if your first thought when watching something, or listening to a podcast is to go post about it to have either people validate your opinion or fight with you so that you can have the satisfaction of smacking them down —— then I think we can agree as a collective there is something fundamentally wrong with all of us

over and above being fucking wrestling fans of all things 

     

geeez


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> Aw, look who's throwing a petty temper tantrum.
> 
> You totally sound like a "reasonable/rational" poster who's 'definitely' worth taking seriously.


You're not supposed to make personal attacks in this thread anymore.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Two Sheds said:


> I am 100% for competition too. Vince does his best work when he is forced to try. There are definitely a lot of feds out there now between WWE, AEW, Impact, MLW, NWA, NJPW, etc. The ground is fertile for someone to catch fire and start a new big era. I am hopeful it will happen and multiple companies can grow as a result and provide us with some quality programming.


This is all we want here. Some people want AEW and the other promotions to fail and they are the ones who are not supporting the industry.

I mean everyone here is definitely very passionate. You can’t deny that. Free Pippen.

Vaccine soon. People hopefully back soon. Let’s see blood and guts summer 21.


----------



## sideon

So does the main event rating finally prove that Cody isn't the draw that he thinks he is? The cheapest way to get a ratings increase for a certain wrestler is to put them at the start of the show since that's when most people tune in, but putting them in the middle or hoping they stick around until the main event is a bigger challenge.


----------



## rbl85

sideon said:


> So does the main event rating finally prove that Cody isn't the draw that he thinks he is? The cheapest way to get a ratings increase for a certain wrestler is to put them at the start of the show since that's when most people tune in, but putting them in the middle or hoping they stick around until the main event is a bigger challenge.


I love Cody but even i had to watch Io vs Rhea.

There was no stake in the main event of AEW.


----------



## 3venflow

Are the quarter hour ratings out and did I miss them in this constant arguing? Please post/link if so.


----------



## Not Lying

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329645113669279746

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329800115910025216


sideon said:


> So does the main event rating finally prove that Cody isn't the draw that he thinks he is? The cheapest way to get a ratings increase for a certain wrestler is to put them at the start of the show since that's when most people tune in, but putting them in the middle or hoping they stick around until the main event is a bigger challenge.



It was a large drop, but everytime Cody defended his TNT title in the main event the ratings saw a bump so I don't think that's fair, he's still one of the the top draws for AEW along with Mox and Jericho. The Tag match had no stakes really, they could have teased and built Hobbs' turn for more intrigue.


----------



## fabi1982

Seems like people tuned in to see Shaq, no Shaq in sight and they leave, came back top of the hour, still no Shaq and they leave again and didnt bother to hope for Shaq in Q8.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

One day TNT will give AEW an overrun of 10min

i live in hope


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> One day TNT will give AEW an overrun of 10min
> 
> i live in hope


I really hope so. The overrun needs to make a comeback. It really helps that "anything can happen" feel and makes the show feel a lot less scripted.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Strong start, drops, rises back (for contract signing? Can’t remember when it took place) and back down to sink for the main event. I’d say they should’ve put the contract signing on last, but that wouldn’t work as it actually happened.

Overall though it was a pretty good number for the week.


----------



## bdon

The Definition of Technician said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329645113669279746
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329800115910025216
> 
> 
> 
> It was a large drop, but everytime Cody defended his TNT title in the main event the ratings saw a bump so I don't think that's fair, he's still one of the the top draws for AEW along with Mox and Jericho. The Tag match had no stakes really, they could have teased and built Hobbs' turn for more intrigue.


As always Moxley draws well.

Hmm...might be a good idea to put his feuds on TV for longer than a 2 minute backstage promo, eh?

Cody is just “working”.


----------



## Dickhead1990

Pentagon Senior said:


> I was convinced he was a Southpark character when I first heard him, sounds like a lunatic man-child on the verge of heart attack


I never thought of him as a Southpark character, but you're bang on there! He's like one of the ******** that claims "dey tookarr jawbs!"


----------



## Dickhead1990

Chip Chipperson said:


> You are in England therefore do not count just like I don't count because Aussie.


I don't know, do you know what the house prices are like in England? lol.

In all fairness though, we apparently have it on free TV here. Not that I own a TV in the first place...


----------



## The Wood

Klitschko said:


> You know what really made me laugh. Didn't Cody say just few days ago that AEW would not pretend there was an imaginary camera following people around and then then they do that segment.


“No invisible wall.”
“The Ellis Island of professional wrestling.”
“You won’t be seeing that from our referees anymore.”

Broken promises matter.



LongPig666 said:


> What a fucking ridiculous defence this is.
> 
> WWE is getting a lot of money for doing much worse than AEW in the UK.
> 
> /slowgolfclap for WWE plc.


Yes, that’s why they left Sky. BT or whatever they are called was going to pay more for them. They’re a premium access channel, no? You are comparing a station that not many people get with one that is in a lot more homes. But you know this. 



Pippen94 said:


> Mlw a mere speck in the wrestling universe


It’s so weird how AEW super fans are so happy to spit on other underdog promotions. AEW could be called a speck in regards to WWE. All MLW needs is the money to get a star or two and the network to get their product more eyeballs.


----------



## El Hammerstone

The Wood said:


> It’s so weird how AEW super fans are so happy to spit on other underdog promotions. AEW could be called a speck in regards to WWE. All MLW needs is the money to get a star or two and the network to get their product more eyeballs.


If MLW had a real network and money behind it, along with the ability to secure a big name or two, become a more attractive option for top prospects, and keep their talent from leaving for greater exposure elsewhere (the names that have come through there is impressive, imagine if they hung on to just half those talents); they'd be legit with the presentation they have going.


----------



## bdon

El Hammerstone said:


> If MLW had a real network and money behind it, along with the ability to secure a big name or two, become a more attractive option for top prospects, and keep their talent from leaving for greater exposure elsewhere (the names that have come through there is impressive); they'd be legit with the presentation they have going.


Can you point me to the best MLW show? I am genuinely curious to see what the fuss is about. I tried to watch an episode once and was lost after just a couple of minutes due to the lack of production quality, felt small time, so I’m hoping you or @The Wood can point me in the direction of an episode that is so good I can look past the production values.


----------



## El Hammerstone

bdon said:


> Can you point me to the best MLW show? I am genuinely curious to see what the fuss is about. I tried to watch an episode once and was lost after just a couple of minutes due to the lack of production quality, felt small time, so I’m hoping you or @The Wood can point me in the direction of an episode that is so good I can look past the production values.


I mean, off the top of my head it's hard to say, but I would certainly check out the latest episode; they've just come back from an 8 month hiatus and it opens with a video package highlighting the main happenings in the company right now. When it comes right down to it, it is an indie promotion, so it's going to seem very small time by contrast to AEW/WWE no matter the case, but the presentation with the fight style match graphics, match clock, etc. helps a lot in that respect to give it more of a sports feel.


----------



## bdon

El Hammerstone said:


> I mean, off the top of my head it's hard to say, but I would certainly check out the latest episode; they've just come back from an 8 month hiatus and it opens with a video package highlighting the main happenings in the company right now. When it comes right down to it, it is an indie promotion, so it's going to seem very small time by contrast to AEW/WWE no matter the case, but the presentation with the fight style match graphics, match clock, etc. helps a lot in that respect to give it more of a sports feel.


Well, that’s what I’m saying. I understand it is an indie promotion, but if it’s good, perhaps I can look past it and just enjoy the product/performance.


----------



## El Hammerstone

bdon said:


> Well, that’s what I’m saying. I understand it is an indie promotion, but if it’s good, perhaps I can look past it and just enjoy the product/performance.


Well friend, you'll never know until you try


----------



## omaroo

MLW might be indie promotion but its damn entertaining when watched it.

Hammerstone, fatu are great.

Even filthy tom is good.


----------



## rbl85

El Hammerstone said:


> If MLW had a real network and money behind it, along with the ability to secure a big name or two, become a more attractive option for top prospects, and keep their talent from leaving for greater exposure elsewhere (the names that have come through there is impressive, imagine if they hung on to just half those talents); they'd be legit with the presentation they have going.


That's a lot of "if"


----------



## sideon

The Definition of Technician said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329645113669279746
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329800115910025216
> 
> 
> 
> It was a large drop, *but everytime Cody defended his TNT title in the main event the ratings saw a bump so I don't think that's fair*, he's still one of the the top draws for AEW along with Mox and Jericho. The Tag match had no stakes really, they could have teased and built Hobbs' turn for more intrigue.


That kinda makes my point. If Cody isn't defending the title then he's not drawing ratings, which speaks more for the title than it does Cody. A true draw gets numbers whenever they're on screen and the fact that a main event featuring 2 wrestlers who are said to be big draws only got 722k says a lot. Moxley is the only guy who gets the numbers whenever he's on screen.


----------



## rbl85

sideon said:


> That kinda makes my point. If Cody isn't defending the title then he's not drawing ratings, which speaks more for the title than it does Cody. A true draw gets numbers whenever they're on screen and the fact that a main event featuring 2 wrestlers who are said to be big draws only got 722k says a lot. Moxley is the only guy who gets the numbers whenever he's on screen.


I'm quite confident that a one on one Cody vs Cage would have done better than the tag match.


----------



## El Hammerstone

rbl85 said:


> That's a lot of "if"


Yes, I'm aware. But if the money and network happened, the other things would fall into place.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> That's a lot of "if"


It’s a smaller “if” than if AEW gets its shit together at this point. It could work like a chain reaction. MLW gets the funds to sign Brock Lesnar, CM Punk, Ronda Rousey and Tessa Blanchard. They put on some DAZN specials that get attention. They have enough to get a deal with a TV network — the quality would have them beating AEW in ratings almost instantly.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> It’s a smaller “if” than if AEW gets its shit together at this point. It could work like a chain reaction. MLW gets the funds to sign Brock Lesnar, CM Punk, Ronda Rousey and Tessa Blanchard. They put on some DAZN specials that get attention. They have enough to get a deal with a TV network — the quality would have them beating AEW in ratings almost instantly.


Why would Brock, Punk, Rousey, and Blanchard all go to a promotion so far out of the mainstream eye BEFORE it secures a TV deal..?


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> Why would Brock, Punk, Rousey, and Blanchard all go to a promotion so far out of the mainstream eye BEFORE it secures a TV deal..?


Not being on TV is one of Brock's favorite activities. Sorry, could not help myself.


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> Not being on TV is one of Brock's favorite activities. Sorry, could not help myself.


Haha fair play!


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Why would Brock, Punk, Rousey, and Blanchard all go to a promotion so far out of the mainstream eye BEFORE it secures a TV deal..?


Money. With MLW, it would be DAZN fronting it, most likely. They’re in a bit of trouble, but you need to spend to expand. If they pop the purse for those names, they create a packet for MLW to help sell themselves to networks.

It’s not impossible MLW secure a deal before they sign anyone though, and that money is used to acquire some stars.


----------



## La Parka

Pentagon Senior said:


> AEW has flaws but it's the only wrestling show that's kept me watching regularly for 20 years and there are plenty of others in the same boat, inside and outside of this forum. If we can't be happy about reinstating our fandom after such a long period - because certain people want to convince us we are wrong to do so - that's a pretty sad state of affairs really.


Its not that people are trying to convince you its wrong to enjoy AEW, its that AEW super fans make claims that are usually looking for a reaction. 

So far we've had someone make a thread bragging about AEW killing NXT, posts from AEW fans claiming that QT Marshall formats a show better than Vince McMahon, AEW being better than TNA ever was, AEW being so much better than WWE. 

If you're going to make the above posts, you're going to have people respond.


----------



## 3venflow

Wouldn't surprise me if last night's good show does a low rating, such is the randomness of these things. Next week, they'll be disappointed if that card doesn't hit 1m. Is NXT planning anything big to oppose Winter is Coming?


----------



## rbl85

3venflow said:


> Wouldn't surprise me if last night's good show does a low rating, such is the randomness of these things. Next week, they'll be disappointed if that card doesn't hit 1m. Is NXT planning anything big to oppose Winter is Coming?


NXT have War games this weekend but they announced nothing for next week.


----------



## Erik.

If they increased this week, I'd be surprised (such is the way AEWs ratings tend to go). But if they did, then they'd HAVE to think next week is almost a guaranteed 1,000,000.

Last week, they increased for the second week running. That was the 3rd time in the companies history that it's happened. Increasing for a third time would be unheard of for AEW - but last nights show was good, definitely deserved a bigger viewership than last week.

But I will probably go with 780k.


----------



## fabi1982

rbl85 said:


> NXT have War games this weekend but they announced nothing for next week.


Wargames is a week from Sunday so next week is the gohome show basically.


----------



## Prosper

Last week was 850K with a 0.37 right? Holiday week so I'm gonna say it goes down.

800K with a 0.32 demo is my guess. We probably won't find out today with it being Thanksgiving though.


----------



## Aedubya

It'll be down from last week but still a strong demo


----------



## rbl85

prosperwithdeen said:


> Last week was 850K with a 0.37 right? Holiday week so I'm gonna say it goes down.
> 
> 800K with a 0.32 demo is my guess. *We probably won't find out today with it being Thanksgiving though.*


Next monday


----------



## Aedubya

rbl85 said:


> Next monday


What about next Monday?


----------



## rbl85

Aedubya said:


> What about next Monday?


The rating for last night


----------



## The Wood

808k. People will act like it is 2.5 million.


----------



## One Shed

With so many people still apparently traveling for Thanksgiving this week, I would say the rating goes down just because of that.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

I predict 825k


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

I think it is delayed because of Thanksgiving


----------



## The Wood

If AEW gets 808k, that leaves 592k for NXT. To deflect from AEW slipping again, people will talk about NXT being under 600k and not charting. Thanksgiving will also be used as an excuse.


----------



## Hephaesteus

I assume itll be down cuz its a taped show. But It'll fall within the range


----------



## Ozell Gray

Dynamite will get 700,000 viewers.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Wood said:


> If AEW gets 808k, that leaves 592k for NXT. To deflect from AEW slipping again, people will talk about NXT being under 600k and not charting. Thanksgiving will also be used as an excuse.


Don't forget "Spoilers were posted so people didn't feel the need to tune in"


----------



## Klitschko

I predict 700k-850k


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> If AEW gets 808k, that leaves 592k for NXT. To deflect from AEW slipping again, people will talk about NXT being under 600k and not charting. Thanksgiving will also be used as an excuse.


Why are you so upset ?


----------



## The Wood

Danielallen1410 said:


> Why are you so upset ?


Huh? I’m not upset, and you’re not supposed to make snarky remarks aimed at people in here. You’ll get yourself excluded from the thread if you’re not careful.

The ratings go up and down, always falling between a predictable range that doesn’t indicate any growth (or major decline since their big one). Having an emotional response to these ratings, one way or another, seems trivial.

The bottom doesn’t seem likely to drop off any more than it has, but it also isn’t likely that they’ll be seeing over 1 million viewers regularly anytime soon.


----------



## thorn123

It was a brilliant episode so viewership will probably drop ... Murphy’s law


----------



## La Parka

DaveRA said:


> It was a brilliant episode so viewership will probably drop ... Murphy’s law


Isn't every AEW epsiode a brilliant episode?


----------



## thorn123

La Parka said:


> Isn't every AEW epsiode a brilliant episode?


I give them an average of 7/10 with this week about 8 or 8.5


----------



## The Wood

DaveRA said:


> I give them an average of 7/10 with this week about 8 or 8.5


Then last week could have been a 5.5, so it goes to follow that people would have been turned off. How is that Murphy’s law?


----------



## thorn123

The Wood said:


> Then last week could have been a 5.5, so it goes to follow that people would have been turned off. How is that Murphy’s law?


No last week was pretty good. About 7 to 7.5


----------



## 10gizzle

The Wood said:


> Huh? I’m not upset, and you’re not supposed to make snarky remarks aimed at people in here. You’ll get yourself excluded from the thread if you’re not careful.
> 
> The ratings go up and down, always falling between a predictable range that doesn’t indicate any growth (or major decline since their big one). Having an emotional response to these ratings, one way or another, seems trivial.
> 
> The bottom doesn’t seem likely to drop off any more than it has, but it also isn’t likely that they’ll be seeing over 1 million viewers regularly anytime soon.


I know a lot of people have been clinging to ratings and demo's, but there are many other ways to see if a business is growing.

Do you really look at the last 13 months and see a company that hasn't had notable growth?


----------



## The Wood

10gizzle said:


> I know a lot of people have been clinging to ratings and demo's, but there are many other ways to see if a business is growing.
> 
> Do you really look at the last 13 months and see a company that hasn't had notable growth?


Where am I supposed to see the growth? Pandemic aside, crowds were tapering off. TV isn’t up. PPV isn’t up. Revenue doesn’t seem to be noticably up. They aren’t more popular. They were hot as a concept, but now they’re here and kind of underwhelming. No more mention of “Change the World” and they certainly haven’t provided a Vinceless world for people.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

From wreslinginc.com, "This week's _NXT_ and AEW _Dynamite_ ratings are delayed due to the Thanksgiving holiday. The numbers will be released some time on Monday morning. "









WWE & AEW Ratings Delayed, Liv Morgan Trains With Aliyah (Video), Kevin Owens On His NXT Appearance


- Above is an extra scene from the new "Liv Forever" documentary on the WWE Network, featuring a behind-the-scenes look at Liv Morgan.The clip shows…




www.wrestlinginc.com


----------



## rbl85

I said it 2 times on the previous page


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

They did 660k with a .26 in 18-49 last year on Thanksgiving eve for reference. This was also a loaded episode with Chris Jericho Vs. Scorpio Sky for the title, Omega Vs. PAC II and MJF Vs. Hangman for the Dynamite ring.

The week prior to that was 891k with a .39 in 18-49 IIRC, so 33% drop for Thanksgiving eve.

Week after thanksgiving eve did 851k with a .34 in 18-49 IIRC.

You would hope it's not as steep of a decline this year.


----------



## RiverFenix

Do we know the live/taping schedule thought the new year? Live on the 2nd, I assume will tape the next day for the 9th. So back on the 16th for a live show and then taping the following night? Do they air a new show on the 23rd or would the taping from the 17th be in the can until January 30th? 

This way the wrestlers would be off from Dec 17th until January 6th. I can't imagine they're brought in for Dec 30th live show because they're not going to tape a show on NYE the next night so they'd then have to tape air live again on January 6th. 

Dec 2 - Live
Dec 9- Taped
Dec 16- Live
Dec 23 - Recap/Highlight
Dec 30 - Taped
Jan 6 - Live


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Like someone else said, I expect a large drop off due to Thanksgiving travel. 632k, .23 demo. Shame, was a great show coming off a great show last week.


----------



## La Parka

AEW should easily get 1 million for Mox / Omega episode. 

NXT has nothing special going this upcoming week.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

They aren't going to do 1 million, at least I don't think, it seems like right now the number of households watching their show is set in place, and what really increases/decreases the number is viewers per home.

Last week they did a high viewers per home number, thus creating the increase in viewers and the 18-49 number, however actual households watching was identical.

I think they'll do 900k at most, I hope I'm wrong, but the anniversary show doing a disappointing number should tell you something.


----------



## 10gizzle

Can I ask everyone a serious question. Does hitting a million really fucking matter?

For all we know they've been hitting a million for months when taking illegal streams and downloads into consideration. 

How is it that everyone is looking at the fucking ratings thinking "this is everyones who watches AEW".

It's not. I have not watched a single episode on live TV. Nobody I know who watches AEW, watches it on live TV.


----------



## The Wood

10gizzle said:


> Can I ask everyone a serious question. Does hitting a million really fucking matter?
> 
> For all we know they've been hitting a million for months when taking illegal streams and downloads into consideration.
> 
> How is it that everyone is looking at the fucking ratings thinking "this is everyones who watches AEW".
> 
> It's not. I have not watched a single episode on live TV. Nobody I know who watches AEW, watches it on live TV.


No one thinks that is the entire audience. It’s the only audience we can measure and it’s the only audience monetised by TNT.

1 million is just a satisfying number to discuss. The difference between 1 million and 1.1 mil and 900k is the same, but psychologically that drop to 900k seems a lot worse.


----------



## Erik.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1332834337205620737


----------



## 10gizzle

To think, what kind of shit head you have to be to get mad at someone for liking something you don't.


----------



## Whoanma

Erik. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1332834337205620737


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

10gizzle said:


> Can I ask everyone a serious question. Does hitting a million really fucking matter?


It's just another benchmark to hit, this companies survivability is entirely reliant on them pulling strong ratings.

Really, the goal should be to try to hit a .40 in the 18-49 demo, since that would actually be the record for the entire year, they did a .37 and cracked a million viewers(unopposed) on 9/9, but they also just did a .37 a few weeks ago, albeit viewership was lower at 850k.

I think the show will do well, but part of me thinks even 900k/.38 is a stretch, I'd love to be wrong, but the 850k/.37 number seemed more like an anomaly rather than what's going to be a usual trend.


----------



## 10gizzle

RelivingTheShadow said:


> It's just another benchmark to hit, this companies survivability is entirely reliant on them pulling strong ratings.
> 
> Really, the goal should be to try to hit a .40 in the 18-49 demo, since that would actually be the record for the entire year, they did a .37 and cracked a million viewers(unopposed) on 9/9, but they also just did a .37 a few weeks ago, albeit viewership was lower at 850k.
> 
> I think the show will do well, but part of me thinks even 900k/.38 is a stretch, I'd love to be wrong, but the 850k/.37 number seemed more like an anomaly rather than what's going to be a usual trend.


That's where I'm questioning it. Exactly how much is reliant on strong ratings?

Cool nugget I just read on Reddit:

AEW is averaging around 150K viewers in Brazil on a 1 week delay, airing at 11PM-1AM.

I'd actually venture to say their survivability will come down to pushing the brand as much as possible globally so as to not be entirely reliant on ratings.

I mean GoT was the most pirated thing of all time and the HBO boss said that was even better than winning an Emmy.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

10gizzle said:


> That's where I'm questioning it. Exactly how much is reliant on strong ratings?


There biggest revenue driver right now is their Television deal, which they got because of their relatively strong number in 18-49(same reason WWE got their much stronger TV deals).

That TV deal lasts until 2024, with renegotiations opening up in 2022, so they have to pull strong ratings until then. Now looking into the far distant future, who knows where we will be at, it's hard to predict the Television industry, but WWE has been getting their rights increased for a while now, and some point the bubble is going to burst and the money is going to be somewhere else, but who knows when that will be so for now, TV ratings are still the most important.


----------



## 3venflow

One of The Acclaimed said they had been signed by TK partly to appeal to the younger demo (one of them is a diss rapper), so it's clear AEW values that demographic highly - probably as the TV network does.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

I'm curious if WWE will keep NXT on Wednesday nights if they fall to like a .11 in 18-49, that .14 number for Io Shirai vs Rhea Ripley, which is probably the biggest match NXT could put on outside of taking people from RAW/Smackdown had to be pretty alarming.

I would actually be pretty interested in the brand split ending and NXT having access to everyone, would Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins, Sash Banks and Becky Lynch on NXT push them above in 18-49 against AEW? Would be an interesting test, but obviously would be horrible for AEW because that will most certainly take a significant bite from them.


----------



## One Shed

RelivingTheShadow said:


> They aren't going to do 1 million, at least I don't think, it seems like right now the number of households watching their show is set in place, and what really increases/decreases the number is viewers per home.
> 
> Last week they did a high viewers per home number, thus creating the increase in viewers and the 18-49 number, however actual households watching was identical.
> 
> I think they'll do 900k at most, I hope I'm wrong, but the anniversary show doing a disappointing number should tell you something.


The anniversary show was really bad though and so were most of the episodes leading up to it so they deserved it. Hopefully with last week's episode being great, and this week not being a holiday or containing any other sports or news events in competition, and the lineup looking pretty good (despite a fairly poor build), they can do it this time.


----------



## One Shed

Erik. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1332834337205620737


True, but in that same vein of thinking, you can only put so many things on a pizza before it starts to no longer be a pizza.


----------



## The Wood

No, it is not people getting mad at people for liking something. Have your pizza with pineapple or without pineapple. We are upset that a giant consensus has been made to either include or exclude pineapple from every pizza ever from now on. There’s a MASSIVE difference.

It’s an argument against criticism. It’s also spitting on people’s passion to want to see something be better and SURVIVE. Even AEW superfans tell me “wrestling is dying.” Yeah, so stop giving people who are allergic to pineapple pineapple, you cunts.

HOW DARE PEOPLE WANT SOMETHING TO BE GOOD AND DO WELL?!?

P.S. No one is mad at you for enjoying AEW. I think that we think you’re lying a lot of the time. There’s no way you can enjoy Swoggle in a diaper. But there is definitely an argument to be had in regards to qualifying the success of this shit. Enjoy what you like. *But you can’t force others to enjoy it too, which is the irony of the situation.*


----------



## kamaro011

The Wood said:


> No, it is not people getting mad at people for liking something. Have your pizza with pineapple or without pineapple. We are upset that a giant consensus has been made to either include or exclude pineapple from every pizza ever from now on. There’s a MASSIVE difference.
> 
> It’s an argument against criticism. It’s also spitting on people’s passion to want to see something be better and SURVIVE. Even AEW superfans tell me “wrestling is dying.” Yeah, so stop giving people who are allergic to pineapple pineapple, you cunts.
> 
> HOW DARE PEOPLE WANT SOMETHING TO BE GOOD AND DO WELL?!?
> 
> P.S. No one is mad at you for enjoying AEW. I think that we think you’re lying a lot of the time. There’s no way you can enjoy Swoggle in a diaper. But there is definitely an argument to be had in regards to qualifying the success of this shit. Enjoy what you like. *But you can’t force others to enjoy it too, which is the irony of the situation.*


AEW "Hater" drove away people that enjoyed AEW product because those "Hater" is being too negative for their criticism.

AEW "superfans" is also drove people away to even people who like some aspect that AEW provide but put off by their overly praising what AEW has done eventhough it's a mediocre at best.

Both sides of spectrum is responsible in some way for people to avoid discussion in this forum.


----------



## DammitChrist

Hopefully, there aren't many obstacles that'll prevent Dynamite from getting a nice bump for this upcoming week.



kamaro011 said:


> AEW "Hater" drove away people that enjoyed AEW product because those "Hater" is being too negative for their criticism.
> 
> AEW "superfans" is also drove people away to even people who like some aspect that AEW provide but put off by their overly praising what AEW has done eventhough it's a *mediocre at best*.
> 
> Both sides of spectrum is responsible in some way for people to avoid discussion in this forum.


Except that the product isn't "mediocre" at all since their shows have consistently been good/entertaining to watch (especially since around Full Gear), so that automatically invalidates that bolded part 

Anyway, the first paragraph of your comment here is pretty much the only accurate part of your post tbh.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> Hopefully, there aren't many obstacles that'll prevent Dynamite from getting a nice bump for this upcoming week.
> 
> 
> 
> Except that the product isn't "mediocre" at all since their shows have consistently been good/entertaining to watch (especially since around Full Gear), so that automatically invalidates that bolded part
> 
> Anyway, the first paragraph of your comment here is pretty much the only accurate part of your post tbh.


Product is pretty bad bro unless you like good matches and meme segments. I need a little more though


----------



## fabi1982

AEW 710k demo 0.26
NXT 712k demo 0.20

Ouch

Edit: at least so they can have a big increase for the special on Wednesday and everyone can be like „ooooh they crushed the competition with a 250k increase“


----------



## The Wood

fabi1982 said:


> AEW 710k demo 0.26
> NXT 712k demo 0.20
> 
> Ouch


Wow! I predicted 808k. A loss to NXT out of nowhere (trivial at those numbers) — no “PPV level show.” AEW going to start panicking like they always do, trivial or not. If you didn’t expect a title change next week, expect the big “event” now.

The demo is an overrated metric, but that demo for AEW is quite a considerable slip.


----------



## Christopher Near

kamaro011 said:


> AEW "Hater" drove away people that enjoyed AEW product because those "Hater" is being too negative for their criticism.
> 
> AEW "superfans" is also drove people away to even people who like some aspect that AEW provide but put off by their overly praising what AEW has done eventhough it's a mediocre at best.
> 
> Both sides of spectrum is responsible in some way for people to avoid discussion in this forum.



Exactly. I'm an aew fan but the super fans can really be annoying and they do the same to wwe fans


----------



## RainmakerV2

The show has Too. Much. Pointless. Wrestling. You cant tell me people arent tuning out during a 15 minute TH2 match.


----------



## The Wood

RainmakerV2 said:


> The show has Too. Much. Pointless. Wrestling. You cant tell me people arent tuning out during a 15 minute TH2 match.


That is true, but it’s also got to be the yo-yo nature of everything too. They get told to care about people for a week then told to care about someone else.

PAC came in, big deal, lost. Top Flight, newest tag team, lost. SCU are back. They’ll lose. FTR. Lost. Miro will lose. Everyone will eventually catch on that nothing matters.


----------



## Erik.

Bloody thanksgiving.


----------



## RainmakerV2

The Wood said:


> That is true, but it’s also got to be the yo-yo nature of everything too. They get told to care about people for a week then told to care about someone else.
> 
> PAC came in, big deal, lost. Top Flight, newest tag team, lost. SCU are back. They’ll lose. FTR. Lost. Miro will lose. Everyone will eventually catch on that nothing matters.



Not to mention any casual still left tuning in gets promised Tyson and Shaq and nothing comes from it.


----------



## 3venflow

This happened last year on an even worse scale for AEW. They did 663k vs. NXT's 830k with a 0.27 demo for their Thanksgiving show. That show had Jericho vs. Sky for the title, MJF vs. Page and Omega vs. PAC!

A disappointing rating for such a fantastic two hours, but not too surprising for me.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Erik. said:


> Bloody thanksgiving.


Except NXT's viewership and demo actually went up.


----------



## Shock Street

The Wood said:


> That is true, but it’s also got to be the yo-yo nature of everything too. They get told to care about people for a week then told to care about someone else.
> 
> PAC came in, big deal, lost. Top Flight, newest tag team, lost. SCU are back. They’ll lose. FTR. Lost. Miro will lose. Everyone will eventually catch on that nothing matters.


Something I've noticed is that in nearly every match with 3 or more people involved, the wrong person takes the pin. Latest was Darby taking the pin against Team Tazz instead of Cody, but there are many examples.


----------



## fabi1982

All this rating shows me is that the week before a lot of people tuned in to see Shaq, no Shaq appeared and they didnt tune in last week.


----------



## The Wood

Erik. said:


> Bloody thanksgiving.


Lol, why isn’t NXT effected by Thanksgiving. They’ve won both Thanksgiving week



RainmakerV2 said:


> Not to mention any casual still left tuning in gets promised Tyson and Shaq and nothing comes from it.


Oh yeah, that too. It’s not “long-term storytelling” like some claim — you actually get led to believe something is going to happen then nothing does.

It’s the same as false advertising, no matter what Bryan Alvarez tells you. Promoters that cry wolf end up losing their bargaining power with fans.



3venflow said:


> This happened last year on an even worse scale for AEW. They did 663k vs. NXT's 830k with a 0.27 demo for their Thanksgiving show. That show had Jericho vs. Sky for the title, MJF vs. Page and Omega vs. PAC!
> 
> A disappointing rating for such a fantastic two hours, but not too surprising for me.


NXT posting quite a good rating on Thanksgiving last year. But it’s the same number of people watching. I don’t want to hear this argument about AEW building an audience or growing when it is clearly about 500k for each show and then an extra 400-500k that will go where the action is.

It’s going to get smaller before it gets bigger, folks.


----------



## DaSlacker

Shock Street said:


> Something I've noticed is that in nearly every match with 3 or more people involved, the wrong person takes the pin. Latest was Darby taking the pin against Team Tazz instead of Cody, but there are many examples.


They boxed themselves in with the NJPW inspired 'every match must end in pinfall or submission' idea. It's perfect for PPV or supercards, but it's counterproductive when it comes to weekly television.


----------



## The Wood

DaSlacker said:


> They boxed themselves in with the NJPW inspired 'every match must end in pinfall or submission' idea. It's perfect for PPV or supercards, but it's counterproductive when it comes to weekly television.


I don’t know where this idea that DQs or countouts are bad comes from. Is that a Meltzer thing? It’s weird.

Long matches aren’t inherently bad, but when every match is long you don’t have any long matches. You don’t have drama from the length of the match. And it’s not always the most effective story.

Wrestlers need to be booked to have the most effective matches. Sometimes that means someone going in there and killing a fool.


----------



## Shock Street

The Wood said:


> I don’t know where this idea that DQs or countouts are bad comes from. Is that a Meltzer thing? It’s weird.


I barely watch WWE but from what I've read it's that WWE abuses them and does them too much... But IMO that shouldn't mean they never happen! They're extremely useful storytelling tools, ESPECIALLY if every single person on the roster is in a stable or has a tag team partner with few exceptions.


----------



## The Wood

Shock Street said:


> I barely watch WWE but from what I've read it's that WWE abuses them and does them too much... But IMO that shouldn't mean they never happen! They're extremely useful storytelling tools, ESPECIALLY if every single person on the roster is in a stable or has a tag team partner with few exceptions.


When it is the right finish it’s the right finish. Taking away from a match because it doesn’t end “clean” is just insane to me. It should be based on the emotion it makes you feel, not whether it ticks a box.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Up from last years Thanksgiving Eve, hard to be mad at that or #7 overall for the night. Good for NXT getting a good week under them.


----------



## Alright_Mate

So NXT fans don’t celebrate thanksgiving, but AEW fans do, is that right?

Last weeks card was yet again overrated by many on here, majority of matches were Dark worthy, not Dynamite worthy.

Segments were better than matches last week, as I’ve said so many times when it comes to matches, they need to showcase their best week in week out, not their lower carders who have zero business being on TV.


----------



## The Wood

I wonder what this means for next week? How long have they been advertising Omega vs. Mox? It’s been a couple of weeks, right? Because they were going to sign the contract when Mox was attacked.

For AEW to crack 1 million with the title match, like many were hoping, they will need to see an increase of about 45% next week.


----------



## 3venflow

The ratings increased by 188,000 (663k to 851k) from the Thanksgiving edition to the next show last year and the demo jumped from 0.26 to 0.32.

#1 in the key demo on cable last Wednesday was only 0.31, which is lower than AEW's demo from the week prior (0.37) so it seems that AEW having a younger audience impacts their Thanksgiving ratings.

Based on recent ratings, last week's was definitely an anomaly when you look at the data and what we know. It was the same last year (the final show before Xmas also dropped, so expect it to again this year).


----------



## Shock Street

The Wood said:


> When it is the right finish it’s the right finish. Taking away from a match because it doesn’t end “clean” is just insane to me. It should be based on the emotion it makes you feel, not whether it ticks a box.


I think TK genuinely believes AEW is fulfilling its sports based promises. He just thinks sports based means no DQ's, keeping visible track of wins and losses, and cold booking.


----------



## The Wood

Does NXT have anything advertised for next week? Like, at all? It’s the go-home for Takeover, so you’ll probably just see functional shit for War Games, War Games, Lumis/Grimes and Triple Threat. AEW should be able to beat them pretty handedly, but they’re pretty cold right now. I don’t know how anyone can argue with that.


----------



## RainmakerV2

The Wood said:


> Does NXT have anything advertised for next week? Like, at all? It’s the go-home for Takeover, so you’ll probably just see functional shit for War Games, War Games, Lumis/Grimes and Triple Threat. AEW should be able to beat them pretty handedly, but they’re pretty cold right now. I don’t know how anyone can argue with that.



Im hoping Kross comes back for Balor Wednesday but I think theyre holding that off.


----------



## Ozell Gray

That’s embarrassing for NXT to get more viewers than Dynamite especially since they’re doing Moxley vs Omega 2 which is them running out of ideas because of the one and done feuds they were doing. By doing that they’re now blowing their load and theirs no “big matchups” left.


----------



## Erik.

El Hammerstone said:


> Except NXT's viewership and demo actually went up.


What's that got to do with AEW?

Last years Thanksgiving show also got low ratings for AEW and was the most DVR'd in their history.

It's clear we're dealing with two different fanbases here.

I am sure AEW will be happy with being 7th in the demo and #1 in M18-49.

If this is the same rating this week - then they should probably worry. 

I'll give you a hint though. It won't be/


----------



## DaSlacker

The Wood said:


> I don’t know where this idea that DQs or countouts are bad comes from. Is that a Meltzer thing? It’s weird.
> 
> Long matches aren’t inherently bad, but when every match is long you don’t have any long matches. You don’t have drama from the length of the match. And it’s not always the most effective story.
> 
> Wrestlers need to be booked to have the most effective matches. Sometimes that means someone going in there and killing a fool.


Not 100% certain. If a big match ended in DQ or count out the fans would always hate it. As they became smarter it went from hating the heel or ref to reacting negatively to the company. Because they knew the company was either protecting their chosen one or kicking the can down the road. Japan mark Meltzer loved the workrate and supercard aspect so would rate matches higher if more 'complete'. Like a finished painting as opposed to a series of minor works. 

Khan's tried to give something different and emulate what he thinks Dave will approve of. But it's all mishmash imo. Even worse, if the idea of moving away from the non finish was due to crowd displeasure, what's the point of jobbing your guys in the empty arena era?


----------



## Mister Sinister

Putting on a PPV style show this week is not going to make ratings. They aren't delivering weekly matches with their top guys. Imagine WCW not having Goldberg wrestle every week at the height of his streak. Miro and Mox should both have matches every week.


----------



## Pippen94

7th for night & no. 1 with m 18 - 49


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1333367888984629248
AEW meme in the wild. Have seen it all over IG


----------



## The Wood

Optikk is All Elite said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1333367888984629248
> AEW meme in the wild. Have seen it all over IG


Average person: “Oh look, silly WWE wrestling. Yes, I like champers.”

Let’s not try to distract from the ratings now.


----------



## Erik.

Mister Sinister said:


> Imagine WCW not having Goldberg wrestle every week at the height of his streak.


Well, he didn't wrestle every week.

Why must every wrestling company be compared to past companies, from different eras during completely different times?


----------



## The Wood

Erik. said:


> Well, he didn't wrestle every week.
> 
> Why must every wrestling company be compared to past companies, from different eras during completely different times?


Because the mistakes of the past are repeated.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

NXT wins. Wamppp wampppp wamppp wammmmmp



El Hammerstone said:


> Except NXT's viewership and demo actually went up.


Simple reasoning here. AEW fans are more patriotic and better than NXT fans so AEW fans celebrated and NXT fans stayed home.



The Wood said:


> I wonder what this means for next week? How long have they been advertising Omega vs. Mox? It’s been a couple of weeks, right? Because they were going to sign the contract when Mox was attacked.
> 
> For AEW to crack 1 million with the title match, like many were hoping, they will need to see an increase of about 45% next week.


They won't crack a million. If they do an overall rating of a million or more I'll give them huge kudos.

Tony, it's not too late, I'm available to turn things around for you...


----------



## VIP86

i feel kinda frustrated that AEW is just content with number of audience they have
AEW needs to move away from wednesday nights if they want to grow their audience
as much as i hate Vince McMahon guts, but he was smart in putting NXT against AEW
Tony Khan needs to have some balls and demand that dynamite be moved to a different unopposed night


----------



## rbl85

Ravens vs Steelers will happen wednesday.....


----------



## qntntgood

RainmakerV2 said:


> The show has Too. Much. Pointless. Wrestling. You cant tell me people arent tuning out during a 15 minute TH2 match.


It needs to be said,and these have not been good they have been declining.they have to find a way to get people to watch,and stop listening to meltzer tell them what will draw an audience.


----------



## Klitschko

Damn thats a shit rating.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> Ravens vs Steelers will happen wednesday.....


Oh they get to experience the NFL, this will be funny on both sides


----------



## rbl85

qntntgood said:


> It needs to be said,and these have not been good they have been declining.they have to find a way to get people to watch,and stop listening to meltzer tell them what will draw an audience.


The thing is nobody on this forum knows what draw and what don't draw.


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> Oh they get to experience the NFL, this will be funny on both sides


maybe not because the game will start at 3:40 pm


----------



## qntntgood

rbl85 said:


> The thing is nobody on this forum knows what draw and what don't draw.


I would agree you, but there was a poll from fans who stop watching wrestling general,and it was from 10 years ago. Meltzer likes to tell people it was three,what hurt him the most was fans saying they didn't care for long drawn out matches and the in ring action did look realistic. 








New Data On Why Adults Are No Longer Watching Pro Wrestling - Wrestling Inc.


The Variety Intelligence Platform has a new article looking at four main issues facing WWE that are threatening the company’s bottom line. It was noted that the stock may continue to fall over the next few months based on four issues the company is facing – the decline in TV ratings, the decline...




www.google.com


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> maybe not because the game will start at 3:40 pm


Lol welp that sucks. I was ready for folk being surprised that NFL did good


----------



## rbl85

qntntgood said:


> I would agree you, but there was a poll from fans who stop watching wrestling general,and it was from 10 years ago. Meltzer likes to tell people it was three,what hurt him the most was fans saying they didn't care for long drawn out matches and the in ring action did look realistic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Data On Why Adults Are No Longer Watching Pro Wrestling - Wrestling Inc.
> 
> 
> The Variety Intelligence Platform has a new article looking at four main issues facing WWE that are threatening the company’s bottom line. It was noted that the stock may continue to fall over the next few months based on four issues the company is facing – the decline in TV ratings, the decline...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com


I wasn't watching wrestling 15-20 years ago but after hearing the famous "it was better before" (you hear that shit for everything XD) i watched w few regular wrestling episodes of 15-20 years ago and for me thoses shows were even less serious than right now.


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> Lol welp that sucks. I was ready for folk being surprised that NFL did good


Being surprised ?

I would have been surprised if AEW and NXT did good XD


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> Being surprised ?
> 
> I would have been surprised if AEW and NXT did good XD


Nah I mean in people mocking them for the obvious obliteration, then Meltzer overly explaining the obvious of no shit the NFL killed Wednesday


----------



## qntntgood

rbl85 said:


> I wasn't watching wrestling 15-20 years ago but after hearing the famous "it was better before" (you hear that shit for everything XD) i watched w few regular wrestling episodes of 15-20 years ago and for me thoses shows were even less serious than right now.


Then my friend you have missed out, because a match containing 50 flip flop moves is not necessarily ring psychology.


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> I wasn't watching wrestling 15-20 years ago but after hearing the famous "it was better before" (you hear that shit for everything XD) i watched w few regular wrestling episodes of 15-20 years ago and for me thoses shows were even less serious than right now.


Nostalgia is a real thing, but it really was great back then heh. Randomly watching a few episodes does not do it justice. If you really want to experience it, start in maybe May 1996 and watch episodes of Nitro and eventually start RAW too (RAW in 96 was not great so maybe hold off until 97). I thought it might be fun to do a watch along live thread for old episodes sometimes. It might be hard to get into since so much time has passed and that LIVE feeling back then really was a thing. I was just a young teenager back then, but Monday nights were cannot miss with me and some friends. I had to tape both but we constantly flipped back and forth between the shows.


----------



## rbl85

Two Sheds said:


> Nostalgia is a real thing, but it really was great back then heh. Randomly watching a few episodes does not do it justice. If you really want to experience it, start in maybe May 1996 and watch episodes of Nitro and eventually start RAW too (RAW in 96 was not great so maybe hold off until 97). I thought it might be fun to do a watch along live thread for old episodes sometimes. It might be hard to get into since so much time has passed and that LIVE feeling back then really was a thing. I was just a young teenager back then, but Monday nights were cannot miss with me and some friends. I had to tape both but we constantly flipped back and forth between the shows.


Maybe it's just a generational thing no ?


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> Maybe it's just a generational thing no ?


It could be. Could be a cultural thing too. All three companies then really played into a lot of what was happening in the world (to be fair, the US) at the time so some of it could come across as anachronistic if you watch it for the first time today. In the same way, I cannot totally go back and watch a lot of the WWF 80's stuff. Yes, a lot of it is great, but watching full episodes of that can be a bit cartoony to me.

Maybe try watching something like WrestleMania XV. That would kind of give a good overview of what that era was all about without having to watch a ton of episodes to get the stories. All you need to know is Austin and Rock kayfabe hate each other heh.


----------



## rbl85

Two Sheds said:


> It could be. Could be a cultural thing too. All three companies then really played into a lot of what was happening in the world (to be fair, the US) at the time so some of it could come across as anachronistic if you watch it for the first time today. In the same way, I cannot totally go back and watch a lot of the WWF 80's stuff. Yes, a lot of it is great, but watching full episodes of that can be a bit cartoony to me.
> 
> Maybe try watching something like WrestleMania XV. That would kind of give a good overview of what that era was all about without having to watch a ton of episodes to get the stories. All you need to know is Austin and Rock kayfabe hate each other heh.


Careful i didn't say that i hated everything i saw from this era, there is a lot of matches that really love but overall i don't like the shows.

I think it's the same thing than you but in reverse, you like a lot of todays era matches but overall you don't like the shows


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> Careful i didn't say that i hated everything i saw from this era, there is a lot of matches that really love but overall i don't like the shows.
> 
> I think it's the same thing than you but in reverse, you like a lot of todays era matches but overall you don't like the shows


The shows today go through peaks and valleys for me. When AEW hits the mark for me, I love it. Just with COVID, I think they have gone way downhill from where they started. I hope with crowds partially coming back and with a cure right on the horizon now, they can start building up again. WWE drove me away with LOLCENAWINS and now that he is gone, I hope they can start to build up again too. I think they might have finally bottomed out and are actually improving a tiny bit now.

And there was plenty of stuff I found silly back in the Attitude Era too, there was just more good than bad on the shows and importantly the top of the cards were almost always superb so I could just shake my head at the dumb stuff and keep going. You can go back on some forums that were online then and see people calling out the dumb stuff then too. I am sure if you and I were chatting in 1999 or 2000 I would be posting about how dumb it is for Perry Saturn to be wearing a dress or talking to a mop. I hated the dumb goofy stuff then, and I hate it now.


----------



## RiverFenix

Ravens vs Steelers moved to Wednesday Night. There goes any hopes and dreams for 1M.


----------



## 3venflow

There will be no major ratings spikes again until companies find wrestlers with larger than life charisma. Every successful era of pro wrestling as a mainstream success has had these guys at the top.

When fans got bored of Hulkamania and he jumped to WCW, the industry declined until the nWo and Hogan's reinvention. After Austin and Rock went away, WWE lost its footing in the mainstream bit by bit. The new generation made the company money, but could not hold that widespread interest of their predecessors.

Today, I don't see a single guy in the industry who is close to what Austin, Rock, Hollywood Hogan and even Goldberg had in terms of sheer presence. Find some guys like this, who kids can look at and say "WOW!", and then I think you'd start to see it.

There are some good, charismatic wrestlers in the biz today like Moxley and Reigns, but no one YET who is going to make pro wrestling a phenomenon again.

Perhaps they should find young, stage trained actors with athletic ability and train them to be pro wrestlers.



Two Sheds said:


> And there was plenty of stuff I found silly back in the Attitude Era too, there was just more good than bad on the shows and importantly the top of the cards were almost always superb so I could just shake my head at the dumb stuff and keep going. You can go back on some forums that were online then and see people calling out the dumb stuff then too. I am sure if you and I were chatting in 1999 or 2000 I would be posting about how dumb it is for Perry Saturn to be wearing a dress or talking to a mop. I hated the dumb goofy stuff then, and I hate it now.


The Attitude Era had way more goofy stuff than today's product does. It was Crash TV with blink-and-you'll-miss-them short matches, shock value and bizarre storylines. There was almost never a good match on RAW, but it didn't matter because you couldn't take your eyes off tthe product, and it all built to the PPV where the longer matches happened. And the main eventers were so compelling, they could always sell the product.

Kurt Angle was a bigger comedy act than any top star today, but was mega-over and no one questioned him, even when holding 'Yes I do suck' signs up without realising.


----------



## One Shed

3venflow said:


> The Attitude Era had way more goofy stuff than today's product does. It was Crash TV with blink-and-you'll-miss-them short matches, shock value and bizarre storylines. There was almost never a good match on RAW, but it didn't matter because you couldn't take your eyes off tthe product, and it all built to the PPV where the longer matches happened. Kurt Angle was a bigger comedy wrestler than any top star today, but was mega-over and no one questioned him, even when holding 'Yes I do suck' signs up without realising.


Kurt was comedy gold from the milk stuff to th3e tiny cowboy hat. He had an amazing ability to pull it off, and I would argue a lot of that had to do with the fact that he was a legit guy and everyone knew he could back up every word he said when the bell rang.

There was definitely a lot of goofy stuff, but much more in the WWF than WCW.


----------



## RiverFenix

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Ravens vs Steelers moved to Wednesday Night. There goes any hopes and dreams for 1M.


No longer an issue as the game was bumped by NBC airing Rockefeller Center Tree Lighting Ceremony until 3:40pm. Tree lighting will air live in prime time that night.


----------



## One Shed

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> No longer an issue as the game was bumped by NBC airing Rockefeller Center Tree Lighting Ceremony until 3:40pm. Tree lighting will air live in prime time that night.


The NFL was bumped by a tree. That is a lot funnier than it sounded at first.


----------



## The Wood

The tree lighting is going to kill them.



VIP86 said:


> i feel kinda frustrated that AEW is just content with number of audience they have
> AEW needs to move away from wednesday nights if they want to grow their audience
> as much as i hate Vince McMahon guts, but he was smart in putting NXT against AEW
> Tony Khan needs to have some balls and demand that dynamite be moved to a different unopposed night


If they move, WWE will actually counter-program them now that they know what they’ve got and they’re pretty cold. They could go right for the jugular and put them down and under really quickly. 



rbl85 said:


> The thing is nobody on this forum knows what draw and what don't draw.


Yes they do. It isn’t a mystery. 



RapShepard said:


> Lol welp that sucks. I was ready for folk being surprised that NFL did good


Will people want to watch a 3-hour game and 2-hour wrestling show (or maybe 4 hours of wrestling) in the same day?


----------



## MoxAsylum

RainmakerV2 said:


> The show has Too. Much. Pointless. Wrestling. You cant tell me people arent tuning out during a 15 minute TH2 match.


Agreed, AEW lost themselves. When they first started it felt like a different product entirely. Now it feels just as bad as RAW, if not worse


----------



## .christopher.

Erik. said:


> Bloody thanksgiving.





El Hammerstone said:


> Except NXT's viewership and demo actually went up.


Lol.


rbl85 said:


> The thing is nobody on this forum knows what draw and what don't draw.


No, it's obvious what draws. A wrestling product that takes itself seriously. Meme wrestling doesn't sell, and will be the death of them.

This past decade, the only wrestlers to make a lick of difference - or got WWE some more attention - are Rock, Lesnar, Punk, Bryan and Rousey. Why? Because the fans bought into their storylines and/or characters. Anyone outside of AEW's circus audience have nothing to invest into because no on treats it seriously. Your top heel faction sings songs and breaks kayfabe more often than a Big Show face/heel turn, and your top babyfaces don't even try to hide the fact that this is all a game to them.

It's not rocket science.


----------



## bdon

MoxAsylum said:


> Agreed, AEW lost themselves. When they first started it felt like a different product entirely. Now it feels just as bad as RAW, if not worse


You can thank Jericho and Cody. The minute the show began to focus solely on them, it fell apart.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> You can thank Jericho and Cody. The minute the show began to focus solely on them, it fell apart.


Tell em Bdon.

I'm surprised Cody isn't maining this week. Blonde headed asshole


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Tell em Bdon.
> 
> I'm surprised Cody isn't maining this week. Blonde headed asshole


It was like the minute everything focused solely on them, the rest of the show and characters let out a collective “fuck it” and stopped trying.


----------



## thorn123

Its just ridiculous ... this week, and the last few weeks have been great, on the back of a great ppv. I actually watched Raw and Smackdown this week (first time in 18 months), and Dynamite was far superior IMO. Quality of programming definitely does not correlate with viewership. Some rubbish shows (not wrestling) are out there drawing in the millions.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

0.37 down to 0.26 is no bueno

luckily we all know it’ll be back up again this week


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 0.37 down to 0.26 is no bueno
> 
> luckily we all know it’ll be back up again this week


Yup but how much? Anything under a million is a failure to be honest although I'm not confident they'll hit it...


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yup but how much? Anything under a million is a failure to be honest although I'm not confident they'll hit it...


anything over 700 is a success and i’m sure they’ll hit it


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> anything over 700 is a success and i’m sure they’ll hit it


They're throwing a massive card out there mate. If they hit 801k with this heavily hyped card you'd be happy?


----------



## La Parka

Not surprised at that rating. 

The match card was horrendous. 

Hangman vs Silver? Yet another comedy jobber having a competitive match with a possible star.

TH2 vs Top Flight? two teams that are basically clones of each other? pass. 

SCU and Innercircle. We rarely see SCU on dynamite anymore and everyone has seen enough of the clown show that is Jericho and crew. 

Anna Jay vs Shida - Obvious winner and the whole division is meh to the most hardcore of AEW fans. 

Pac and Fenix vs Butcher and Blade as your main event? Butcher and Blade are known for losing to everyone on the planet. No one is tuning into a show that has a team that lost to QT Marshall and a 51 year Golddust, especially in your main event. 

Another contract signing between Omega and Mox? Something that easily can be watched on youtube the day after. There was nothing "can't miss" about this segment. 

Most people were probably like me and seen the match card and didn't bother with this program. No matter how much this may pain the AEW superfans but people simply are not going to watch a show in hopes to seeing a "banger" of a match. This card pretty much catered to the most hardcore of AEW fans and no one else. 

Omega and Mox should be a good match this week and NXT has really nothing planned so I still think AEW SHOULD get a million. But I may be greatly overestimating interest in AEW at this point.


----------



## The Wood

DaveRA said:


> Its just ridiculous ... this week, and the last few weeks have been great, on the back of a great ppv. I actually watched Raw and Smackdown this week (first time in 18 months), and Dynamite was far superior IMO. Quality of programming definitely does not correlate with viewership. Some rubbish shows (not wrestling) are out there drawing in the millions.


That’s purely subjective though. SmackDown has seemingly been the People’s Choice wrestling since Roman and Paul Heyman came back. But it’s true that crappy shows can get viewers too

Honestly, I don’t think AEW has its finger on any pulse, which is why you see growing dissatisfaction with it and more regular dips. Then the fans spend energy to will it back. Then it sits there for a while and drops again.


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 0.37 down to 0.26 is no bueno
> 
> luckily we all know it’ll be back up again this week


Thanksgiving holiday = lower ratings. Hence being 7# for night despite drop. 
Was number no. 1 show for m18-49


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Thanksgiving holiday = lower ratings. Hence being 7# for night despite drop.
> Was number no. 1 show for m18-49


Unless you’re NXT.


----------



## thorn123

The Wood said:


> That’s purely subjective though. SmackDown has seemingly been the People’s Choice wrestling since Roman and Paul Heyman came back. But it’s true that crappy shows can get viewers too
> 
> Honestly, I don’t think AEW has its finger on any pulse, which is why you see growing dissatisfaction with it and more regular dips. Then the fans spend energy to will it back. Then it sits there for a while and drops again.


I just think some wwe viewers and old wrestling fans tuned in to the first show ... saw it wasn’t 10/10 and didnt relive their beloved attitude or golden era or whatever and stopped watching. It was, and has been a solid 7 IMO. And better than a lot of other rubbish that gets viewers. It seems it has to be perfect or bust. Other viewers are too stubborn to give it a go. It’s actually pretty good entertainment.


----------



## The Wood

DaveRA said:


> I just think some wwe viewers and old wrestling fans tuned in to the first show ... saw it wasn’t 10/10 and didnt relive their beloved attitude or golden era or whatever and stopped watching. It was, and has been a solid 7 IMO. And better than a lot of other rubbish that gets viewers. It seems it has to be perfect or bust. Other viewers are too stubborn to give it a go. It’s actually pretty good entertainment.


Well, that depends on you. You say this other stuff is bad, but it’s fans probably give it between a 7 and a 10 too.

I think you’re right in that wrestling fans didn’t get tickled by it, but I don’t think it’s their fault. People miss pro-wrestling. They aren’t going to give a million chances to a sports entertainment show when they’re fed up with WWE already, and have already been through TNA.


----------



## Erik.

Pippen94 said:


> Thanksgiving holiday = lower ratings. Hence being 7# for night despite drop.
> Was number no. 1 show for m18-49


Yep.

Last year :

Week before thanksgiving : 893k
Thanksgiving: 663k
Week after thanksgiving: 851k

Funnily enough, NXT battered them last Thanksgiving too. One of those rare occasions. Two completely different fanbases.

Nothing to see here.


----------



## 3venflow

And as a reminder, last year's Thanksgiving show, which rated lower than this year's by 47k, had a world title match (Jericho vs. Sky), MJF vs. Hangman and Kenny vs. PAC. A much stronger card than this year's.

The data points to the holidays affecting younger demographics, something perhaps our American friends can confirm or deny. AEW's pre-Christmas show had a similar drop last year before reverting to type the week after. So don't be surprised if the 12/23 edition coming up does around 660-700k.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

3venflow said:


> And as a reminder, last year's Thanksgiving show, which rated lower than this year's by 47k, had a world title match (Jericho vs. Sky), MJF vs. Hangman and Kenny vs. PAC. A much stronger card than this year's.
> 
> The data points to the holidays affecting younger demographics, something perhaps our American friends can confirm or deny. AEW's pre-Christmas show had a similar drop last year before reverting to type the week after. So don't be surprised if the 12/23 edition coming up does around 660-700k.


Yeh I doesn't seem surprising at all - mirroring the same trend as last year (but less of a hit if anything).


----------



## MoxAsylum

bdon said:


> You can thank Jericho and Cody. The minute the show began to focus solely on them, it fell apart.


Agreed. Although Jericho was better when he was champion. Mox is the only reason i remotely have any interest still


----------



## Chip Chipperson

If AEW is this amazing product that is must see every week why it is that the ratings drop whenever something comes up? Election coverage you guys used the excuse, NBA games, Football games, any moderate to major news event, any holiday and even now Thanksgiving Eve.

Seems like if the product was so good people would be giving these things up to watch them. I know I've stopped watching the news or sports to change the channel and watch something that I was really keen on seeing. 

And I still don't understand how the NXT fans allegedly don't celebrate Thanksgiving but the AEW fans do. Don't all Americans celebrate Thanksgiving? Can we get an American to chime in on how this could be possible?


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> If AEW is this amazing product that is must see every week why it is that the ratings drop whenever something comes up? Election coverage you guys used the excuse, NBA games, Football games, any moderate to major news event, any holiday and even now Thanksgiving Eve.
> 
> Seems like if the product was so good people would be giving these things up to watch them. I know I've stopped watching the news or sports to change the channel and watch something that I was really keen on seeing.
> 
> And I still don't understand how the NXT fans allegedly don't celebrate Thanksgiving but the AEW fans do. Don't all Americans celebrate Thanksgiving? Can we get an American to chime in on how this could be possible?


The real answer is that everyone is different and we have no idea what is really happening on a person by person basis. All of us here are just making generalizations whether the numbers go up or down. Maybe AEW fans travel more than NXT fans and were out on Thanksgiving? Maybe real life issues like the election are more important to the cable watching audience? Maybe some of these people have other commitments? Maybe someone’s kid or GF wanted to watch something else that night?

Maybe the demo is down because people between 18-34 were drinking and having fun on 11/25, which here in America is considered the biggest drinking night of the year due to friends and family coming back to town for the holidays? We don’t know. Not making excuses but there are thousands of reasons why someone can’t watch live.

At the end of the day it’s still a wrestling show that you can watch later. 95% of wrestling fans don’t talk about the show online so it’s always a live watch for them seeing as they are most likely not reading results. Even I can’t watch live every week due to real life commitments and if I had a cable box that wouldn’t change.

AEW is an awesome product but I don’t think we can really use a cable box in judging the quality of the show (whether the numbers are high or low) when all other metrics are up. Especially when worse shows have gotten higher numbers quarter to quarter.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

prosperwithdeen said:


> AEW is an awesome product but I don’t think we can really use a cable box in judging the quality of the show (whether the numbers are high or low) when all other metrics are up. Especially when worse shows have gotten higher numbers quarter to quarter.


Which metrics proving AEW's popularity are up? Wouldn't they all be down due to COVID?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> They're throwing a massive card out there mate. If they hit 801k with this heavily hyped card you'd be happy?


well, i mean i don’t judge my happiness With the product by the ratings - but i’ll let you know when i’ll be ‘unhappy‘ purely based on rating - not story


if they are consistently outside the top 20 shows
if their demo is 0.20 or lower
if nxt consistently beats them in the key demo

basically if NXT and AEWs positions were reversed for some time - like 1month +

but ‘800k overall’ does nothing for me - because it is too dependent on outside factors - like ‘how many people are watching on the night’ etc etc

if they did 800k on wed and they were number 1 in the list, what is there possibly to feel mad about?


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> Which metrics proving AEW's popularity are up? Wouldn't they all be down due to COVID?


Growing International popularity, PPV buys staying consistent, streaming traffic growing, demos being high most weeks, social media engagement, 2nd show still being in development, YouTube views, etc. Even with no live crowds they have both gained more of an audience overseas and have retained their PPV numbers.

I imagine that if they are stabilized to pre pandemic times at this point, then without the presence of COVID and with live crowds to guide Tony’s decision making, things would be even better.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

prosperwithdeen said:


> Growing International popularity, PPV buys staying consistent, streaming traffic growing, demos being high most weeks, social media engagement, 2nd show still being in development, YouTube views, etc. Even with no live crowds they have both gained more of an audience overseas and have retained their PPV numbers.
> 
> I imagine that if they are stabilized to pre pandemic times at this point, then without the presence of COVID and with live crowds to guide Tony’s decision making, things would be even better.


International popularity I won't touch on because I've not seen it unless you're counting the UK stuff which is simply because they're on free TV I believe.

PPV buys have remained consistent but haven't improved or gone up since last year. Seems like they're stagnant.

Streaming traffic growing, do we have any evidence? 

Demos have always been high so that seems like they're remaining stagnant also.

Social media engagement I'll take your word on.

Second show doesn't show they have this great audience it could be for any reason. Wrestling is cheap to produce so they might know that a second AEW show will net them 400,000 viewers and cost them zero to produce. There are too many factors at play to count this for your argument.

YouTube? The hype package for their biggest TV match ever has under 100k hits bruh...

I will give kudos to them for being able to maintain an audience throughout COVID though which is something that even the WWE seemingly has struggled with.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Chip Chipperson said:


> If AEW is this amazing product that is must see every week why it is that the ratings drop whenever something comes up? Election coverage you guys used the excuse, NBA games, Football games, any moderate to major news event, any holiday and even now Thanksgiving Eve.
> 
> Seems like if the product was so good people would be giving these things up to watch them. I know I've stopped watching the news or sports to change the channel and watch something that I was really keen on seeing.
> 
> And I still don't understand how the NXT fans allegedly don't celebrate Thanksgiving but the AEW fans do. Don't all Americans celebrate Thanksgiving? Can we get an American to chime in on how this could be possible?


Well other wrestling shows (and TV shows in general) are similarly affected so it's not that hard to understand. Smackdown recently tanked when it switched channels, Raw ratings drop when there is a major football game on. 

That's life, and to expect otherwise would seem to miss out on reality or, day I say it, to be a disengenuous perspective. 

AEW has built a dedicated fanbase of 700-800k US cable viewers which has remained constant. That's a good start for this era and beyond what was initially anticipated.

The thanksgiving factor seems to be down to a different demographic - again looking at the trend from last year that seems clear and not surprising at all. 

The issue of growth remains, I will give you that to some extent. But considering the majority of their first full year has bee disrupted by a global pandemic and no crowds - is that not a relevant factor to be considered? If the crowds return in 2021 and the year ends at the same level then I think the argument over growth becomes more compelling.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW rating in the key 18-49 demo the week before was 0.37 (7th on the list).

Thanksgiving week, the #1 rating of any show in that demo was 0.31 (AEW's was 0.26, again 7th on the list).

Incidentally, AEW was #1 on cable for males in the 18-49 but fared poorly with females in the same group.

AEW actually did better in the 50+ than 18-49 last week, which probably says a lot about where the younger demo's priorities were.










Here is the table from the week before. Note the key demo (which it is default sorted by). #10 would have been the #1 ranked show a week later.


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> International popularity I won't touch on because I've not seen it unless you're counting the UK stuff which is simply because they're on free TV I believe.
> 
> PPV buys have remained consistent but haven't improved or gone up since last year. Seems like they're stagnant.
> 
> Streaming traffic growing, do we have any evidence?
> 
> Demos have always been high so that seems like they're remaining stagnant also.
> 
> Social media engagement I'll take your word on.
> 
> Second show doesn't show they have this great audience it could be for any reason. Wrestling is cheap to produce so they might know that a second AEW show will net them 400,000 viewers and cost them zero to produce. There are too many factors at play to count this for your argument.
> 
> YouTube? The hype package for their biggest TV match ever has under 100k hits bruh...
> 
> I will give kudos to them for being able to maintain an audience throughout COVID though which is something that even the WWE seemingly has struggled with.


I more so mean that they have been able to regain their audience when I say numbers are up. Should have said "back up" in my original post, but it isn't a wild thought to think that popularity is continuing to grow.

-UK, Italy, India, etc. are all reported to be markets where AEW is hitting their stride. Most of them are streamers seeing as they are outside of the U.S. The momentum is not just going to stop within the wrestling audience that stayed. Heaps of new fans won't be made in 2020 though. These are most likely all people who are coming back to wrestling or leaving WWE.

-I posted screenshots before showing streaming traffic for AEW pages on websites like "w***hw*****ing". Traffic dipped like crazy for all wrestling shows back in March/April for COVID and have consistently increased back up since then. Not just for AEW though, WWE is streamed like crazy. 

-Your comments on 2nd show are fair.

-Youtube videos consistently get higher and higher views with a lot of their videos having more views than the most popular talent in WWE. DARK views over the course of the week are getting higher. They don't have a WWE size audience where a video gets more than 100K views in the first day. That won't happen in the first year.


----------



## Erik.

Looks like some of the EXPERTS on here are making BIG MOVES.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1333683383923134464


----------



## bdon

I can only answer for myself, but I did not watch the show until days later, even if I did fast forward and see the Omega/Mox, Hangman, and Cody/Taz stuff that I felt needed viewing.

I don’t miss an episode, but my best friend, his girlfriend/whatever she is, and other mutual friends showed up at the house to watch the Supernatural series finale. I’d missed it the previous week, and we all agreed to watch together once my best friend made it home for the holidays. After watching the series finale, we all drank some beers, discussed the home he’s building in NORRRRTH CAROLINAAAAA, and even played cards while the ladies gossiped.

I’m not sure how life is in the rest of the US (the WEEK of Thanksgiving is hectic), but the day before Thanksgiving is typically a night of catching up with old classmates and friends for drinks. As was the situation in my case.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> I don’t miss an episode, but my best friend, his girlfriend/whatever she is, and other mutual friends showed up at the house to watch the Supernatural series finale. I’d missed it the previous week, and we all agreed to watch together once my best friend made it home for the holidays. After watching the series finale, we all drank some beers, discussed the home he’s building in NORRRRTH CAROLINAAAAA, and even played cards while the ladies gossiped.


Damn, I would've been so in for cards with Bdon and the crew if I was even somewhat local.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Damn, I would've been so in for cards with Bdon and the crew if I was even somewhat local.


It would have been fun, man. You’d like the crew.


----------



## Prosper

bdon said:


> I can only answer for myself, but I did not watch the show until days later, even if I did fast forward and see the Omega/Mox, Hangman, and Cody/Taz stuff that I felt needed viewing.
> 
> I don’t miss an episode, but my best friend, his girlfriend/whatever she is, and other mutual friends showed up at the house to watch the Supernatural series finale. I’d missed it the previous week, and we all agreed to watch together once my best friend made it home for the holidays. After watching the series finale, we all drank some beers, discussed the home he’s building in NORRRRTH CAROLINAAAAA, and even played cards while the ladies gossiped.
> *
> I’m not sure how life is in the rest of the US (the WEEK of Thanksgiving is hectic), but the day before Thanksgiving is typically a night of catching up with old classmates and friends for drinks. As was the situation in my case.*


Yeah I blacked out, I need to stop drinking


----------



## Aedubya

Erik. said:


> Looks like some of the EXPERTS on here are making BIG MOVES.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1333683383923134464


DAFUQ!?


----------



## The Wood

Aedubya said:


> DAFUQ!?


That’s not real, lol.


----------



## Aedubya

Do NWA not do Powerrr anymore?
I see they have started a new show called Shockwave on YT


----------



## The Wood

I haven’t really followed the NWA in some time. I wish them the best, but eh. I can see TK buying them off Corgan and having Cody head up a traditional brand while Omega heads up an “Elite” one.


----------



## 3venflow

Aedubya said:


> Do NWA not do Powerrr anymore?
> I see they have started a new show called Shockwave on YT


Shockwave is not new content, it's matches that happened some months ago. They're calling it a 'limited series' but no one is sure if or when Powerrr will return. Shockwave got pretty bad reviews and people were hoping it'd be original content.

NWA's director of operations, Maureen Tracy, has just left and was an important part of the promotion.

Covid seems to have hit them hard but I don't think they are at death's door yet. If they are in trouble, it could be a fairly cheap acquisition for TK (Vince owns the tape libraries) and having the NWA belts would be interesting. I think they have five active titles. But would he want to keep NWA running when AEW is a new brand with a second national show starting soon?

They could do an NWA invasion angle for a few months before assimilating their best talents.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Let me get this straight, for the week of Thanksgiving 2020, only ONE of the FOUR major NATIONAL TV brands actually gained viewership from the year before but that promotion is apparently no good if you read here.

Ratings for Thanksgiving Week 2019 v Thanksgiving Week 2020:

Raw -16% viewers, -19% rating
NXT -12% viewers, -17% rating
SDown -8% vieweres, -14% rating

Dynamite +7% viewers, E on the rating, no gain or loss.

I am not even trying to knock WWE I am just sick and tired of people acting like AEW is losing its ass.


----------



## NathanMayberry

They're really hyping tonight's show.. It's AEW's biggest possible match, being given away for free and there's even gonna be an overrun. 


If it doesn't hit a million, that would be quite sad and indicative of AEW's ceiling going forward.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

NathanMayberry said:


> They're really hyping tonight's show.. It's AEW's biggest possible match, being given away for free and there's even gonna be an overrun.
> 
> 
> If it doesn't hit a million, that would be quite sad and indicative of AEW's ceiling going forward.


I can't see them hitting a million opposed personally but also don't see why that arbitrary number matters other than it looks/sounds good. If they hit 950k with a strong demo, for instance, that would be a great result imo. I'm expecting somewhere between 900-950k.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

TKO Wrestling said:


> Let me get this straight, for the week of Thanksgiving 2020, only ONE of the FOUR major NATIONAL TV brands actually gained viewership from the year before but that promotion is apparently no good if you read here.
> 
> Ratings for Thanksgiving Week 2019 v Thanksgiving Week 2020:
> 
> Raw -16% viewers, -19% rating
> NXT -12% viewers, -17% rating
> SDown -8% vieweres, -14% rating
> 
> Dynamite +7% viewers, E on the rating, no gain or loss.
> 
> I am not even trying to knock WWE I am just sick and tired of people acting like AEW is losing its ass.


Stop. Being. So. Rational. Damnit!


----------



## omaroo

It will be quite disappointing if they dont get over 900k with how they have hyped the show and main event over the last week.


----------



## taker1986

Honestly ITV in the UK are a joke. I just so happened to have ITV1 on last night while watching Dark on laotop and it was the Dynamite episode from 2 weeks ago that was being shown, the one with the IC in Vegas lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

It'll be a strong 0.35

910k this week

if there is an overrun, it'll break 1m


----------



## rbl85

Nielsen updated the rating for last week show and AEW in fact did 712K.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> Nielsen updated the rating for last week show and AEW in fact did 712K.


TK has everybody in the pocket

good guy TK coming in clutch with the extra 2k peeps


----------



## The Wood

Ratings aren’t an exact science. You can smudge the numbers 10% either way. It’s all a crapshoot.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> Ratings aren’t an exact science. You can smudge the numbers 10% either way. It’s all a crapshoot.


Yes, that's true for all companies. Still the best yardstick we have so we make do


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> Yes, that's true for all companies. Still the best yardstick we have so we make do


I didn’t say it wasn’t true for all companies. It’s barely a yardstick is the point.

710k or 712k for either AEW or NXT is really irrelevant. At the end of the day, what matters is which show is making the most revenue for its network. That’s why ratings are even tabulated.

Common sense implies that NXT is much more valuable to USA than AEW to TNT. NXT is a PG show (this actually matters). It’s got the WWE branding and international reach. It also doesn’t split ad revenue with USA. If it also doesn’t cost much as far as rights fees goes, it’s possible that NXT could bring in up to four times the revenue of AEW with the current viewership.

To clarify: Let’s say both AEW and NXT bring in $100 million in ad revenue each year. AEW has bigger numbers, but NXT has better branding, so let’s say they cancel out. AEW costs $45 million in rights fees, then you’ve got to split it. That’s $27.5 million for TNT.

NXT doesn’t split, which means they can claim up to $72.5 million in rights until they start becoming less valuable to USA.

Who is really laughing?


----------



## validreasoning

Advertisers these days pay keen interest too in Nielsen's social media rankings Weekly Top Ten - Nielsen Social


----------



## Pippen94

rbl85 said:


> Nielsen updated the rating for last week show and AEW in fact did 712K.


Ha


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> I didn’t say it wasn’t true for all companies. It’s barely a yardstick is the point.
> 
> 710k or 712k for either AEW or NXT is really irrelevant. At the end of the day, what matters is which show is making the most revenue for its network. That’s why ratings are even tabulated.
> 
> Common sense implies that NXT is much more valuable to USA than AEW to TNT. NXT is a PG show (this actually matters). It’s got the WWE branding and international reach. It also doesn’t split ad revenue with USA. If it also doesn’t cost much as far as rights fees goes, it’s possible that NXT could bring in up to four times the revenue of AEW with the current viewership.
> 
> To clarify: Let’s say both AEW and NXT bring in $100 million in ad revenue each year. AEW has bigger numbers, but NXT has better branding, so let’s say they cancel out. AEW costs $45 million in rights fees, then you’ve got to split it. That’s $27.5 million for TNT.
> 
> NXT doesn’t split, which means they can claim up to $72.5 million in rights until they start becoming less valuable to USA.
> 
> Who is really laughing?


I understand your gripe around accuracy but we're in a thread titled 'AEW TV ratings...' so it's going to get discussed here of all places. And it's the best yardstick, I'm aware of at least, to discuss that topic.

I can't accept nor deny the rest of your post as I don't have the knowledge of those deals nor figures to back it up. You may well be dead right but it does look like a whole lot of assumption and hypotheticals.

For me to answer your question would be meaningless considering my lack of knowledge and the highly hypothetical nature of the scenario.


----------



## Pippen94

validreasoning said:


> Advertisers these days pay keen interest too in Nielsen's social media rankings Weekly Top Ten - Nielsen Social


Weird - dynamite always trends much higher on Twitter than wwe Wednesday show


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

validreasoning said:


> Advertisers these days pay keen interest too in Nielsen's social media rankings Weekly Top Ten - Nielsen Social


Finally joining the 21st century.


----------



## The Wood

validreasoning said:


> Advertisers these days pay keen interest too in Nielsen's social media rankings Weekly Top Ten - Nielsen Social


True. Very interesting to see how those shows are ranked. Mainly that Raw is still more talked about than SmackDown.

Nielsen also seem a lot more interested in completely different demographics to the ones reported by Showbuzz.



Pentagon Senior said:


> I understand your gripe around accuracy but we're in a thread titled 'AEW TV ratings...' so it's going to get discussed here of all places. And it's the best yardstick, I'm aware of at least, to discuss that topic.
> 
> I can't accept nor deny the rest of your post as I don't have the knowledge of those deals nor figures to back it up. You may well be dead right but it does look like a whole lot of assumption and hypotheticals.
> 
> For me to answer your question would be meaningless considering my lack of knowledge and the highly hypothetical nature of the scenario.


I’m not saying don’t discuss it. I’m in here all the time. I’m just saying that people’s interpretations of these abstract numbers are a little too rigid. They’re not power levels. Meltzer and Alvarez will make it sound like 712k beats 710k and that’s that (unless it’s a week where the demo is the power level). They are tools for advertisers. One of many tools.

And it is well reported that AEW splits its ad revenue and that their rights fees are $45 million. Thst



Optikk is All Elite said:


> Finally joining the 21st century.


Huh? I’ve never seen validreasoning say anything to the contrary. In fact, a lot of people on the “opposite side of the fence” to you (if you want to look at it so adversarially) have been far more open to modern interpretations of ratings than people on your side.

I know I’ve said that I believe the 18-49 demo to be largely archaic given how society changes and we have learned more culturally about people. I know Cult03 has questioned them too.

Just because AEW wrestlers throw out the rulebook and claim to be “hip” and “young” doesn’t mean that the apologists are actually the ones up on the latest trends.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pippen94 said:


> Weird - dynamite always trends much higher on Twitter than wwe Wednesday show


Twitter is AEWs domain

NXT seems to benefit greatly from WWEs insta accs on that poll

it is the largest wrestling company in the world afterall - combined socials they will always dust AEW.... for now


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

lols - the arguments echo over all the socials

funny to see - it really is like supporting sports teams, isn't it?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334077898958008320

edit> also, does this count as a 'rating' ?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334234477795610624


----------



## fabi1982

With the overrun I expect 1.1m with a 0.39 demo. Eveything below 900 should be seen as a disappointment.


----------



## Prosper

Its funny how there are people out there on Twitter or where ever looking at ratings to tell them whether they should enjoy or not lol. People will literally let a non-1 million rating take away and tarnish whatever enjoyment they have watching live tonight as they look back. Sad.


----------



## Klitschko

prosperwithdeen said:


> Its funny how there are people out there on Twitter or where ever looking at ratings to tell them whether they should enjoy or not lol. People will literally let a non-1 million rating take away and tarnish whatever enjoyment they have watching live tonight as they look back. Sad.


More time has been spent talking about the ratings this match will bring or won't bring, instead of how great it will be and who will win it.


----------



## Shock Street

My bet is placed. 875k. Same as the episode before Full Gear.


----------



## NathanMayberry

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lols - the arguments echo over all the socials
> 
> funny to see - it really is like supporting sports teams, isn't it?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334077898958008320


Sidgwick is literally the definition of small dick energy... what a massive fucking loser


----------



## Prosper

Klitschko said:


> More time has been spent talking about the ratings this match will bring or won't bring, instead of how great it will be and who will win it.


It’s just sad man. People don’t know how to just enjoy themselves anymore. Everyone is so over-analytical now and they miss the entire point of all this: enjoyment and entertainment from a wrestling product. It’s equivalent to talking about the Avengers box office more than the movie itself and its awesome moments. I wish ratings altogether weren’t even reported, most people have no idea what they are even talking about anyway.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

prosperwithdeen said:


> It’s just sad man. People don’t know how to just enjoy themselves anymore. Everyone is so over-analytical now and they miss the entire point of all this: enjoyment and entertainment from a wrestling product. It’s equivalent to talking about the Avengers box office more than the movie itself and its awesome moments. I wish ratings altogether weren’t even reported, most people have no idea what they are even talking about anyway.


the problem is that people are stuck in the 90s and early 00s and dont consider literally all the other streams in views and income. you've said many times, I've said it. cable subscription numbers peaked in 09 and have been free falling. people watch in other ways. ratings are still important, but not at the level some weirdos are expecting them to be.


----------



## USAUSA1

People dont watch full wrestling shows anymore or at least more than one hour.

And frankly, there's nothing must see in wrestling.


----------



## validreasoning

Klitschko said:


> More time has been spent talking about the ratings this match will bring or won't bring, instead of how great it will be and who will win it.


When you give away your biggest possible match on free tv you should expect people to talk about tv ratings. Same if WWE had Lynch beat Rousey on Raw or Cena vs Rock happened on SD.

It's why people still to this day reference WCW giving Goldberg vs Hogan away on free tv.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Wood said:


> I haven’t really followed the NWA in some time. I wish them the best, but eh. I can see TK buying them off Corgan and having Cody head up a traditional brand while Omega heads up an “Elite” one.


The meltdown I would have if I read the headline "Tony Khan buys the National Wrestling Alliance" would make Bdon's Cody rants look like a small childs.

If Tony Khan ever bought the NWA I feel like I'd be physically sick.


----------



## Erik.

The television deal is their biggest source of revenue. 

Making Dynamite must-see TV benefits them way more than a spike in PPV buys.


----------



## DaSlacker

Erik. said:


> The television deal is their biggest source of revenue.
> 
> Making Dynamite must-see TV benefits them way more than a spike in PPV buys.


Plus Omega, unlike Rousey and Rock, is only a huge star to a certain audience. To the casual viewer he's an upper midcarder with a good reputation. In kayfabe AEW he's on the same level as Cody, Page and probably Hardy.


----------



## NathanMayberry

validreasoning said:


> When you give away your biggest possible match on free tv you should expect people to talk about tv ratings. Same if WWE had Lynch beat Rousey on Raw or Cena vs Rock happened on SD.
> 
> It's why people still to this day reference WCW giving Goldberg vs Hogan away on free tv.


Its crazy...


Sting alone could have gotten 1 million on any night if booked properly. Sting + their biggest possible match is overkill.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

This show should definitely hit a million with the main event and Sting getting them some mainstream attention.


----------



## Chan Hung

Chip Chipperson said:


> This show should definitely hit a million with the main event and Sting getting them some mainstream attention.


Yep. Sting next week should be a good number during his segment.


----------



## thorn123

I hope it hits a million ... it should ... dont think it will though ... hope i am wrong ... what a show!


----------



## Erik.

I don't know what the overall ranking will be. But I would be AMAZED if at some point during the show, they didn't have a million viewers. Probably from Stings appearance leading into the Mox/Omega match. 

But good luck to them - it was an excellent second hour which has created a fair bit of buzz amongst a section of wreslting fans.


----------



## Pippen94

DaveRA said:


> I hope it hits a million ... it should ... dont think it will though ... hope i am wrong ... what a show!


C'mon, get some confidence


----------



## Pippen94

#aew no. 1 in usa
Biggest trending show in a while + plus sting also up there;





United States | Twitter trending hashtag and topics today | trends24.in


Hannity, William, Quavo, Boebert, Zach Thomas - Today's top Twitter trends and hashtags at United States. Find what's trending now in your city, country or worldwide.




trends24.in


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> The meltdown I would have if I read the headline "Tony Khan buys the National Wrestling Alliance" would make Bdon's Cody rants look like a small childs.
> 
> If Tony Khan ever bought the NWA I feel like I'd be physically sick.


lol... mate, i wish you no ill

but the meltdown that will result will be an epic week of reading

for your mental health’s sake, i hope it doesn’t happen..... for my entertainment though.....


----------



## kamaro011

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol... mate, i wish you no ill
> 
> but the meltdown that will result will be an epic week of reading
> 
> for your mental health’s sake, i hope it doesn’t happen..... for my entertainment though.....


No one should buy NWA whether it be Vince, Tony or other.

It's like hijacking a wrestling history and prestige like NWA and make it on their own.


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lols - the arguments echo over all the socials
> 
> funny to see - it really is like supporting sports teams, isn't it?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334077898958008320
> 
> edit> also, does this count as a 'rating' ?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334234477795610624


Those are certainly all words...



prosperwithdeen said:


> It’s just sad man. People don’t know how to just enjoy themselves anymore. Everyone is so over-analytical now and they miss the entire point of all this: enjoyment and entertainment from a wrestling product. It’s equivalent to talking about the Avengers box office more than the movie itself and its awesome moments. I wish ratings altogether weren’t even reported, most people have no idea what they are even talking about anyway.


If things were more enjoyable, people might enjoy them more. The onus isn’t on people to shut their minds off. 



Optikk is All Elite said:


> the problem is that people are stuck in the 90s and early 00s and dont consider literally all the other streams in views and income. you've said many times, I've said it. cable subscription numbers peaked in 09 and have been free falling. people watch in other ways. ratings are still important, but not at the level some weirdos are expecting them to be.


It’s funny, because it seems like the AEW apologists are the one hooked on things like the demo in 2020, when that clearly isn’t the best way to reach that audience. 



validreasoning said:


> When you give away your biggest possible match on free tv you should expect people to talk about tv ratings. Same if WWE had Lynch beat Rousey on Raw or Cena vs Rock happened on SD.
> 
> It's why people still to this day reference WCW giving Goldberg vs Hogan away on free tv.


Absolutely true. 



Erik. said:


> The television deal is their biggest source of revenue.
> 
> Making Dynamite must-see TV benefits them way more than a spike in PPV buys.


The same is true for WWE. The argument could have been made for WCW too. But when NXT does anything on their TV, they get called out for hot-shotting.

TV benefits when it is builds compelling stories. You don’t necessarily need the Big Bang on free TV.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

kamaro011 said:


> No one should buy NWA whether it be Vince, Tony or other.
> 
> It's like hijacking a wrestling history and prestige like NWA and make it on their own.


i definitely don’t want it to happen - for my own reasons - i’m not into the NWA style and presentation at all

not even a little bit

.... but it would be funny


----------



## kamaro011

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i definitely don’t want it to happen - for my own reasons - i’m not into the NWA style and presentation at all
> 
> not even a little bit
> 
> .... but it would be funny


It will be funny for you because you have personal enjoyment watching other suffer (Like Chip for example) to see NWA being purchased by billionare.

For me, at this point it's not a surprise anymore. Billionare buying the property for it's history/prestige and running it down to the ground on how they treated horribly is just as expected.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i definitely don’t want it to happen - for my own reasons - i’m not into the NWA style and presentation at all
> 
> not even a little bit
> 
> .... but it would be funny


It wouldn't. I think that'd be enough to get me to quit wrestling.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> It wouldn't. I think that'd be enough to get me to quit wrestling.


well geez, now i’m torn


----------



## NathanMayberry

The Wood said:


> If things were more enjoyable, people might enjoy them more. The onus isn’t on people to shut their minds off.


That's heresy!! 

Clearly the problem is with us for not liking the garbage Tony Khan books. How dare you imply that it isn't the greatest thing ever !


----------



## Whoanma

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i definitely don’t want it to happen - for my own reasons - i’m not into the NWA style and presentation at all
> 
> not even a little bit
> 
> .... but *it would be funny*


----------



## Pentagon Senior

NathanMayberry said:


> That's heresy!!
> 
> Clearly the problem is with us for not liking the garbage Tony Khan books. How dare you imply that it isn't the greatest thing ever !


Well no offence but that kind of is your problem - it's certainly not a problem for those of us who enjoy the product (shrug). 

It's not the greatest thing ever though - that's hyperbole.


----------



## omaroo

With competition dont think they will get 1 mil.

But 900k-950k would be great for what I thought was a good show, with epic moments and shocks.


----------



## One Shed

Chip Chipperson said:


> It wouldn't. I think that'd be enough to get me to quit wrestling.


People actively WANT you to stop watching though. Just so they can get their clown show. That is the weirdest thing about all this. It really puzzles me.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

They probably won't hit a million, and it doesn't even matter if they do, it's like the Smackdown premiere, or RAW 25, a hyped up show to this extent will always do an abnormally high number.

It's about sustaining interest, and a partnership with fucking TNA ain't it for me.


----------



## RiverFenix

Next week is live or taped? Given usual live/taped schedule it should be taped but that means they tape it tonight before Omega appears at Impact. Also spoilers getting out would be the worst time for that to happen.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Two Sheds said:


> People actively WANT you to stop watching though. Just so they can get their clown show. That is the weirdest thing about all this. It really puzzles me.


Must you rile the beast? Lol

It's been pleasant on here (largely) for a change 🙏


----------



## RapShepard

I'm predicting 855k-935k .28 demo


----------



## One Shed

Pentagon Senior said:


> Must you rile the beast? Lol
> 
> It's been pleasant on here (largely) for a change 🙏


@Chip Chipperson is going to speak his mind whether I rile him up or not


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Two Sheds said:


> @Chip Chipperson is going to speak his mind whether I rile him up or not


Shiiiiiit you speaketh the truth sir!

Can't speak for others but I personally don't wish for Chipper to stop watching wrestling though I wouldn't mind seeing less of his 'reaching for negativity' posts repeated here ad nauseam. I would hazard a guess it's that prospect that excites folks rather than imagining Chipper staring at a blank TV with a tear running down his cheek 😢

But then I could be wrong - there are some pretty sick mofos in this world 😊

Back on topic, I predict 950k and 0.36 (slightly higher than I thought before Sting's entrance)


----------



## Prosper

Going big with 1.1 mil overall and a 0.36 demo.


----------



## One Shed

Pentagon Senior said:


> Shiiiiiit you speaketh the truth sir!
> 
> Can't speak for others but I personally don't wish for Chipper to stop watching wrestling though I wouldn't mind seeing less of his 'reaching for negativity' posts repeated here ad nauseam. I would hazard a guess it's that prospect that excites folks rather than imagining Chipper staring at a blank TV with a tear running down his cheek 😢
> 
> But then I could be wrong - there are some pretty sick mofos in this world 😊
> 
> Back on topic, I predict 950k and 0.36 (slightly higher than I thought before Sting's entrance)


There are a handful of people on here who actively hope AEW does the dumbest things possible JUST to make a few of us annoyed. That is really weird.

I think 900k for last night is likely. Sting was not advertised so I think NEXT week will be a larger number with that Sting speaking segment with Tony. That nostalgia is going to feel good.


----------



## NathanMayberry

prosperwithdeen said:


> Going big with 1.1 mil overall and a 0.36 demo.


Oooo a big brave prediction by our resident TV expert. 


I'm saving this for later.


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> There are a handful of people on here who actively hope AEW does the dumbest things possible JUST to make a few of us annoyed. That is really weird.
> 
> I think 900k for last night is likely. Sting was not advertised so I think NEXT week will be a larger number with that Sting speaking segment with Tony. That nostalgia is going to feel good.


They don’t hit a million this week, but that show next week very well might hit well above 1 million viewers.

The key is capitalizing on the lapsed viewers that showed up. My mom, sister, childhood best friend, and about a half dozen others messaged me last night after seeing a single social media post about Sting. They’re tuning in next week for that reason alone.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Two Sheds said:


> There are a handful of people on here who actively hope AEW does the dumbest things possible JUST to make a few of us annoyed. That is really weird.
> 
> I think 900k for last night is likely. Sting was not advertised so I think NEXT week will be a larger number with that Sting speaking segment with Tony. That nostalgia is going to feel good.


That's one side of it yeh. I would say there are literally 2-3 folks at either extreme but most others are capable of having at least some balance. It's just that the 2-3 neggies are magnified by their large post counts imo. I have to say I really enjoy reading posts by those who call it as they see it (without an agenda) including you, RapShepard, Bdon, Klitchko, FFTG and others. But I'll leave it there - I'm ready to move on like you with 'the microphone' 🎤

Next week's rating will be very interesting I agree! Also, how long will any bump last? Guess it depends on the quality of storylines eminating from last night - so Tony and the crew have work to do in order to capitalize.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> They don’t hit a million this week, but that show next week very well might hit well above 1 million viewers.
> 
> The key is capitalizing on the lapsed viewers that showed up. My mom, sister, childhood best friend, and about a half dozen others messaged me last night after seeing a single social media post about Sting. They’re tuning in next week for that reason alone.


Yup, I think next week will hit over a million on Sting alone. They bought themselves another chance. Problem is they are going to have Trashidy vs MJF in something other than MJF squashing him. That is going to hurt their chances to keep casuals around. Hopefully they make the rest of the show good.


----------



## Prosper

NathanMayberry said:


> Oooo a big brave prediction by our resident TV expert.
> 
> 
> I'm saving this for later.


You don't know what a prediction is do you? I'm guessing like everyone else here is. Get off my cock.


----------



## One Shed

Pentagon Senior said:


> That's one side of it yeh. I would say there are literally 2-3 folks at either extreme but most others are capable of having at least some balance. It's just that the 2-3 neggies are magnified by their large post counts imo. I have to say I really enjoy reading posts by those who call it as they see it (without an agenda) including you, RapShepard, Bdon, Klitchko, FFTG and others. But I'll leave it there - I'm ready to move on like you with 'the microphone' 🎤
> 
> Next week's rating will be very interesting I agree! Also, how long will any bump last? Guess it depends on the quality of storylines eminating from last night - so Tony and the crew have work to do in order to capitalize.


It completely depends on what they do on the show next week. Having MJF in a competitive match and likely losing to a goof is not going to help keep the potential new viewers tuning in. We could have had Sammy vs MJF or Wardlow vs MJF but they blew it.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Two Sheds said:


> It completely depends on what they do on the show next week. Having MJF in a competitive match and likely losing to a goof is not going to help keep the potential new viewers tuning in. We could have had Sammy vs MJF or Wardlow vs MJF but they blew it.


Yeh I agree and that's the only blemish for me from last night going forwards - any of those other options would be preferable. OC is great imo but not in that position. We shall see how it plays out...


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> It completely depends on what they do on the show next week. Having MJF in a competitive match and likely losing to a goof is not going to help keep the potential new viewers tuning in. We could have had Sammy vs MJF or Wardlow vs MJF but they blew it.


Yep. Anyone can tune in and see that MJF carries himself like a star, Dinner BS aside, and next week could have been another building block moment where they made Sammy or Wardlow meet their potential in front of a million+ sized audience with MJF working his ass off to get heat and in turn giving them automatic sympathy.

But no...goddamn Orange Cassidy has to be featured.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> Yep. Anyone can tune in and see that MJF carries himself like a star, Dinner BS aside, and next week could have been another building block moment where they made Sammy or Wardlow meet their potential in front of a million+ sized audience with MJF working his ass off to get heat and in turn giving them automatic sympathy.
> 
> But no...goddamn Orange Cassidy has to be featured.


How they managed to not do MJF vs Sammy after they have spent the entire MJF joining the IC angle as having a problem with Sammy is quite amazing to me.


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> How they managed to not do MJF vs Sammy after they have spent the entire MJF joining the IC angle as having a problem with Sammy is quite amazing to me.


I love slow burns, but last night was the perfect moment to have that pay off. We’ll see how next week goes with the Inner Circle “come to Jericho” meeting.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

LifeInCattleClass said:


> It'll be a strong 0.35
> 
> 910k this week
> 
> if there is an overrun, it'll break 1m


I’m sticking with this

since there was no overrun - 0.35 / 910k


----------



## llj

Really need a great rating for this episode...anything less than 900k would be disappointing imo. I do hope they get it though


----------



## Dark Emperor

RapShepard said:


> I'm predicting 855k-935k .28 demo


I think the demo is too low. You've got a hyped World Title Match & PPV type show. 

If they got 0.36m demo two weeks ago, then I'd expect something similar. 

I think 980k, 0.36 demo. Demo is personally irrelevant though and it's just a Meltzer thing people have taken up. Total viewers is all we should be looking at.


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> They don’t hit a million this week, but that show next week very well might hit well above 1 million viewers.
> 
> The key is capitalizing on the lapsed viewers that showed up. My mom, sister, childhood best friend, and about a half dozen others messaged me last night after seeing a single social media post about Sting. They’re tuning in next week for that reason alone.


Yep thats what I think as well. And I hope AEW doesnt pull a Shaq or Tyson here and just dont have him show up. This is AEWs chance to actually get some lapsed fans, they need to deliver here!!


----------



## 3venflow

HBO Max must be looking more and more appealing to AEW and possibly WarnerMedia after the news today that Warner Bros. will be airing all of its movies this year on HBO Max. Subscriptions will rise again.

Would it be beneficial for AEW to replace PPVs with HBO Max specials (at least in the U.S.)?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334573206242529286


----------



## rbl85

Dark Emperor said:


> I think the demo is too low. You've got a hyped World Title Match & PPV type show.
> 
> If they got 0.36m demo two weeks ago, then I'd expect something similar.
> 
> I think 980k, 0.36 demo. Demo is personally irrelevant though and it's just a Meltzer thing people have taken up.* Total viewers is all we should be looking at.*


Not at all XD


----------



## RapShepard

Dark Emperor said:


> I think the demo is too low. You've got a hyped World Title Match & PPV type show.
> 
> If they got 0.36m demo two weeks ago, then I'd expect something similar.
> 
> I think 980k, 0.36 demo. Demo is personally irrelevant though and it's just a Meltzer thing people have taken up. Total viewers is all we should be looking at.


I thought they normally hovered just under a .3. but fair enough I get your point then.


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> HBO Max must be looking more and more appealing to AEW and possibly WarnerMedia after the news today that Warner Bros. will be airing all of its movies this year on HBO Max. Subscriptions will rise again.
> 
> Would it be beneficial for AEW to replace PPVs with HBO Max specials (at least in the U.S.)?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334573206242529286


If they can get Warner to pay them for the right to exclusively air all PPVs on HBO Max similar to how the UFC gets paid by ESPN for their PPVs then that'd be a big win. But Warner might then expect them to do a monthly special which I'm for, but it seems like AEW and most fans of AEW seem to like that there isn't a bunch of PPVs.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

851k/.32


----------



## Joe Gill

900k... but the last hour will average 1 million


----------



## RiverFenix

Joe Gill said:


> 900k... but the last hour will average 1 million


So does that mean the first hour averaged 800K?

Sting though ME getting 1M is good. First hour undercard was lacking with BR virtually meaningless (that damn ring nobody cares about), Britt/Hirsch and Jericho/Kazarian.


----------



## Joe Gill

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> So does that mean the first hour averaged 800K?
> 
> Sting though ME getting 1M is good. First hour undercard was lacking with BR virtually meaningless (that damn ring nobody cares about), Britt/Hirsch and Jericho/Kazarian.


first hour was trash.. just more of the same.. rating should be similar to previous weeks...
but 2nd hour was hyped with a 40 minute main event and when Sting made his debut NO ONE was switching over to NXT.

the 2nd hour of dynamite was easily the most memorable in the shows history... epic debut of sting, omega heel turn and world title change all in the same hour. If that doesnt get a million viewers nothing will.


----------



## Klitschko

Are they out yet?


----------



## VIP86

viewers = 11300000
demo = 3.40

30 minutes later: Vince McMahon declared dead at the age of 75
cause of death: AEW TV Ratings


----------



## Klitschko

Holy shit, great rating.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Klitschko said:


> Holy shit, great rating.



Do what lol


----------



## RapShepard

VIP86 said:


> viewers = 11300000
> demo = 3.40
> 
> 30 minutes later: Vince McMahon declared dead at the age of 75
> cause of death: AEW TV Ratings


The whole damn family going to have a heart attack over shit like that lol


----------



## bdon

RainmakerV2 said:


> Do what lol


Hahahah


----------



## Klitschko

bdon said:


> Hahahah


I dont get it 😕 lol


----------



## RainmakerV2

It is a little weird they havent come out yet.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Was there a holiday or something yesterday?


----------



## bdon

Klitschko said:


> I dont get it 😕 lol


The number he posted was a fabrication: 11,300,000. You seemed to take his number seriously, as if you hadn’t caught the joke lol


----------



## La Parka

11 million!? 

and people said 1 million would be unreachable!


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Imagine if AEW did somehow hit like a 2.5 million and beat both RAW and Smackdown? This board would crash due to traffic and celebrations.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Imagine if Impact gets a higher rating than Dynamite next week


----------



## 3venflow

Delayed by 90 minutes apparently as the rating service is doing extra quality checks. So I think they're due 50 minutes from now?

I'll predict 920k with a .31 demo.


----------



## Klitschko

bdon said:


> The number he posted was a fabrication: 11,300,000. You seemed to take his number seriously, as if you hadn’t caught the joke lol


I.......wasn't paying attention lol.


----------



## NathanMayberry

If Moxley vs Omega in a title match that had been promoted for weeks on a special show that had Sting appear can't do a million then AEW is never going to average that moving forward..


----------



## Pippen94

NathanMayberry said:


> If Moxley vs Omega in a title match that had been promoted for weeks on a special show that had Sting appear can't do a million then AEW is never going to average that moving forward..


No


----------



## RapShepard

NathanMayberry said:


> If Moxley vs Omega in a title match that had been promoted for weeks on a special show that had Sting appear can't do a million then AEW is never going to average that moving forward..


Well you can't include Sting as nobody was expecting him this week


----------



## Klitschko

I'm going to go with what I said weeks ago. They will get 700-850k for the rest of this year. Hoping I'm wrong though.


----------



## 3venflow

Dunno if this is a sign of things to come, but this is above average in Canada apparently.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334604069802024961


----------



## RainmakerV2

RapShepard said:


> Well you can't include Sting as nobody was expecting him this week


But it blew up on social media quick and undoubtedly people turned the channel there. If they didnt stuck around for a probable world title change thats not good.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

RapShepard said:


> Well you can't include Sting as nobody was expecting him this week


To be fair though Khan hinted at a big surprise...


----------



## bdon

Klitschko said:


> I.......wasn't paying attention lol.


I know. That is what made it even more hilarious, bro. Lol


----------



## bdon

NathanMayberry said:


> If Moxley vs Omega in a title match that had been promoted for weeks on a special show that had Sting appear can't do a million then AEW is never going to average that moving forward..


Actually, next week is THE week that they hit a million. Now that fans know to show up for the Stinger.


----------



## Klitschko

bdon said:


> I know. That is what made it even more hilarious, bro. Lol


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

3venflow said:


> Dunno if this is a sign of things to come, but this is above average in Canada apparently.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334604069802024961


nice! well done canada


----------



## VIP86

2 commercial breaks during the main event was a retarded idea and i'm afraid it will hurt them, but by how much? i don't know
it should have been commercial free


----------



## Alright_Mate

AEW ratings...


----------



## NathanMayberry

Pippen94 said:


> No


So you come to the AEW TV ratings thread to tell people ratings don't matter because it hurts your feelings?


----------



## Whoanma

AEW ratings, can you hear us? Can you find us in the night?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

VIP86 said:


> 2 commercial breaks during the main event was a retarded idea and i'm afraid it will hurt them, but by how much? i don't know
> it should have been commercial free


AEW wouldn't have that pull bro, TNT is about making money and in general don't really care if the wrestling show has a big match on.

Now, when WCW was big time I'm sure they had overrun or a no commercial main a fair few times and it was no issue but AEW don't have that pull yet.


----------



## bdon

NathanMayberry said:


> So you come to the AEW TV ratings thread to tell people ratings don't matter because it hurts your feelings?


No, last night was NOT the night to say they’ll never do a million. Next week with an advertised Sting segment after he randomly pops up is when the million views MUST happen.

If not next week, there really isn’t much else wrestling history can offer to grab viewers.


----------



## Shock Street

Chip Chipperson said:


> AEW wouldn't have that pull bro, TNT is about making money and in general don't really care if the wrestling show has a big match on.
> 
> Now, when WCW was big time I'm sure they had overrun a fair few times and it was no issue but AEW don't have that pull yet.


I presume that will continue to be the case as long as TNT's originals are beating AEW (Snowpiercer, Animal Kingdom and Alienist are still doing over a million on the reg)


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> No, last night was NOT the night to say they’ll never do a million. Next week with an advertised Sting segment after he randomly pops up is when the million views MUST happen.
> 
> If not next week, there really isn’t much else wrestling history can offer to grab viewers.


Tell em


----------



## NathanMayberry

bdon said:


> No, last night was NOT the night to say they’ll never do a million. Next week with an advertised Sting segment after he randomly pops up is when the million views MUST happen.
> 
> If not next week, there really isn’t much else wrestling history can offer to grab viewers.


Why not last night?

Moxley vs Omega in a World Title match can sell a PPV, yet was given away on free TV on a show that was advertised for weeks and had special promos and everything.


They gave away their biggest possible match, but we shouldn't expect big ratings? Hasn't the AEW fans boys here for the past year been telling me that Moxley and Omega are stars?


----------



## 3venflow

They'd do a million most weeks if not for Vince's c*ck-blocker NXT. That was proven on 9/9 when a show with Brodie vs. Dustin, Janela & Kiss vs. Inner Circle and Cassidy vs. Angelico did over a million unopposed.

So as long as they're opposed by NXT, it'll be a challenge to top a million unless they can somehow grow the fan base a little more.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

NathanMayberry said:


> Why not last night?
> 
> Moxley vs Omega in a World Title match can sell a PPV, yet was given away on free TV on a show that was advertised for weeks and had special promos and everything.
> 
> 
> They gave away their biggest possible match, but we shouldn't expect big ratings? Hasn't the AEW fans boys here for the past year been telling me that Moxley and Omega are stars?


Yup. AEW should hit a million from Mox/Omega alone. It was the biggest match they could offer.


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> They'd do a million most weeks if not for Vince's c*ck-blocker NXT. That was proven on 9/9 when a show with Brodie vs. Dustin, Janela & Kiss vs. Inner Circle and Cassidy vs. Angelico did over a million unopposed.
> 
> So as long as they're opposed by NXT, it'll be a challenge to top a million unless they can somehow grow the fan base a little more.


Can't blame competition for their failure to consistently hit a million. That said they're still killing it.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

3venflow said:


> They'd do a million most weeks if not for Vince's c*ck-blocker NXT. That was proven on 9/9 when a show with Brodie vs. Dustin, Janela & Kiss vs. Inner Circle and Cassidy vs. Angelico did over a million unopposed.
> 
> So as long as they're opposed by NXT, it'll be a challenge to top a million unless they can somehow grow the fan base a little more.


to be honest, those extra 200-300k people will be DVRing it anyway. It really makes no difference IMO except for dick swinging contests. In the eyes of AEW and TNT, they would be happy even if people watch it that way.


----------



## VIP86

Chip Chipperson said:


> AEW wouldn't have that pull bro, TNT is about making money and in general don't really care if the wrestling show has a big match on.
> 
> Now, when WCW was big time I'm sure they had overrun or a no commercial main a fair few times and it was no issue but AEW don't have that pull yet.


i guess Jim Cornette was right when he said that TV executives are not wrestling fans and generally don't give a shit about wrestling

but i was hoping because AEW probably exceeded TNT expectations, they would allow them few commercial free matches every now and then


----------



## Prosper

Nothing yet?


----------



## RainmakerV2

prosperwithdeen said:


> Nothing yet?


10 min.


----------



## 3venflow

RapShepard said:


> Can't blame competition for their failure to consistently hit a million. That said they're still killing it.


Feels like there is a very finite audience of around 1.5 million split between Dynamite and NXT. When you consider that Raw only does 1.7 to 1.8 nowadays and Smackdown in the 2.0 to 2.2 region, I think AEW's numbers are fine. If they were not opposed by NXT, we'd probably be seeing regular ratings of 850k to 1.1m for AEW, maybe even higher for bigger shows judging by the 9/9/20 rating. NXT could also do much better if it ran on a separate day, but Vince seems more interested in slowing AEW's growth than growing his off-shoot brand.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

VIP86 said:


> i guess Jim Cornette was right when he said that TV executives are not wrestling fans and generally don't give a shit about wrestling
> 
> but i was hoping because AEW probably exceeded TNT expectations, they would allow them few commercial free matches every now and then


I think TV executives generally only care about dollars. That's the business they're in, you can't let the shows you're a fan of cloud your judgement.

Lets say a TNT ad break is worth 30k each time it runs, you give up 2 of them that's 60k gone just to make the wrestling people happy.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yup. AEW should hit a million from Mox/Omega alone. It was the biggest match they could offer.


What it _should _do and would likely do are very different things. Fans have been conditioned by these motherfuckers to expect Cody rHHHodes for 25 minutes, Jericho in stupid comedy bullshit, Orange Cassidy in nothing segments that go nowhere for his opponent or his character, etc. 

Moxley and Omega are weighed down by the sheer fucking amounts of stupid that have occurred over the last 8 months, mainly Jericho’s Lamest Stand-Up Comedy Tour and the Midgard Cody rHHHodes Journey of Mediocrity.


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> Feels like there is a very finite audience of around 1.5 million split between Dynamite and NXT. When you consider that Raw only does 1.7 to 1.8 nowadays and Smackdown in the 2.0 to 2.2 region, I think AEW's numbers are fine. If they were not opposed by NXT, we'd probably be seeing regular ratings of 850k to 1.1m for AEW, maybe even higher for bigger shows judging by the 9/9/20 rating. NXT could also do much better if it ran on a separate day, but Vince seems more interested in slowing AEW's growth than growing his off-shoot brand.


For sure it's a finite audience to draw from right now. But if they can find a killer story they'll draw those fans away from NXT just like WCW did with the nWo storyline. Maybe this is the storyline that has folk leaving NXT for Dynamite. Especially since NXT gets replayed on the network. WWE's side being a thorn makes sense, mean but keep them as low as possible.


----------



## Dark Emperor

RapShepard said:


> For sure it's a finite audience to draw from right now. But if they can find a killer story they'll draw those fans away from NXT just like WCW did with the nWo storyline. Maybe this is the storyline that has folk leaving NXT for Dynamite. Especially since NXT gets replayed on the network. WWE's side being a thorn makes sense, mean but keep them as low as possible.


Yep, I don't know why AEW fans are salty about the NXT thing. It makes sense. As Conor would say 'Its just business' lol.


----------



## Prosper

Dark Emperor said:


> Yep, I don't know why AEW fans are salty about the NXT thing. It makes sense. As Conor would say 'Its just business' lol.


It is just business. We're not salty, its just that we can't see AEW's actual numbers unopposed, which tells the real story as far as cable viewership/growth.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Orrr maybe not 10 min lol


----------



## Kentucky34

I love Sting but he's not a huge draw imo. 

Austin, HBK and Rollins would be real difference makers if AEW could somehow sign one of them.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Kentucky34 said:


> I love Sting but he's not a huge draw imo.
> 
> Austin, HBK and Rollins would be real difference makers if AEW could somehow sign one of them.


Austin, HBK and...Rollins lol


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Maybe the ratings announcement for today is that there is no ratings announcement...


----------



## VIP86

since AEW started NXT never got more than 300000 viewers, but Vince McMahon bribed the Nielsen ratings people to fabricate the NXT numbers all this time

i have no evidence of this but i dreamt about it after a heavy dinner one day, so it must be true


----------



## Derek30

Chip Chipperson said:


> Maybe the ratings announcement for today is that there is no ratings announcement...


The ratings guy knows how to work a crowd. “I’LL GIVE YOU THE RATINGS!!!!”

_Crowd goes wild_

”BUT NOT TONIGHT!!!!!!”


----------



## RapShepard

Derek30 said:


> The ratings guy knows how to work a crowd. “I’LL GIVE YOU THE RATINGS!!!!”
> 
> _Crowd goes wild_
> 
> ”BUT NOT TONIGHT!!!!!!”


Boooo


----------



## JasmineAEW

PW Torch already announced the ratings.


----------



## spiderguy252000

AEW: 913 
NXT: 658

Demo: .42 to .16


----------



## bdon

Derek30 said:


> The ratings guy knows how to work a crowd. “I’LL GIVE YOU THE RATINGS!!!!”
> 
> _Crowd goes wild_
> 
> ”BUT NOT TONIGHT!!!!!!”


Sting in a surprise debut, Omega running off to IMPACT!, and the Ratings Guy going full heel and not giving the ratings in a timely fashion.

And y’all get mad at @Chip Chipperson and the like for suggesting protecting Kayfabe! Haha


----------



## RapShepard

JasmineAEW said:


> PW Torch already announced the ratings.


And they were?


----------



## 3venflow

AEW 913k P2+/543k P18-49

NXT 658k P2+/210k P18-49 

Best demo of 2020.


----------



## Klitschko

913k for AEW. Can't wait for the breakdown of this.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

3venflow said:


> AEW 913k P2+/543k P18-49
> 
> NXT 658k P2+/210k P18-49
> 
> Best demo of 2020.


God bloody damn. The youngsters love AEW


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

That long of a wait and not even close to 1 million.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Anything under 900 would have been disappointing, i think this is the low side of acceptable.


----------



## omaroo

Excellent rating. Wow!!!. Excellent demo. Fair play to them for a very good show.

With NXT I dont think they will get to 1 mil next week but hope I am proven wrong.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Damn, it must be panic stations for AEW right now. 913k with the biggest match you can offer plus Sting, Jericho and a rumble...


----------



## Pentagon Senior

spiderguy252000 said:


> AEW: 913
> NXT: 658
> 
> Demo: .42 to .16


As expected really. A slightly improved total Weds viewers which is nice to see

Edit - missed the demo WOW


----------



## Joe Gill

913k is not good considering this was the biggest dynamite of all time... they will never hit a million again... and looking at next weeks dynamite they got dustin rhodes vs dork order, th2 and brian pillman jr. Maybe a few new people will tune in but after watching an hour they will say to themsleves "what is this indy flip fest nonsense?" and stop watching.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Joe Gill said:


> 913k is not good considering this was the biggest dynamite of all time... they will never hit a million again... and looking at next weeks dynamite they got dustin rhodes vs dork order, th2 and brian pillman jr. Maybe a few new people will tune in but after watching an hour they will say to themsleves "what is this indy flip fest nonsense?" and stop watching.


I am hopeful that they can hit a million next week. Sting speaking for the first time on a wrestling show in quite a number of years.


----------



## bdon

RainmakerV2 said:


> Anything under 900 would have been disappointing, i think this is the low side of acceptable.


Nah. This is about what I expected.

If they don’t do a million next week, then it is a disappointment. Anything less than 950k, and they simply will never grow the audience.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> I am hopeful that they can hit a million next week. Sting speaking for the first time on a wrestling show in quite a number of years.


This is what I’m thinking, and it is clearly what TK is hanging his hat on.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Viewership not great for such a massive show. 

But the younger crowd tuned in to watch Live which is a positive. 

All in all, I'd say this is acceptable and it's more about sustaining this and improving rather than if they had got 1m then straight back down to under 800k next week.


----------



## Kentucky34

Bad number nowhere near 1 million.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

.42 is the highest rating since the post Full Gear 2019 Fallout show, unopposed shows included.

Regardless, this rating is irrelevant, who gives a shit about 1 potential outlier rating, key is next week and early 2021, if they can build from this, great, if not, it's meaningless.

I don't think TNA of all fucking things is going to help them sustain. People excited for this partnership, have you seen TNA's roster? Like, I'm actually befuddled as far as how people think it's exciting.


----------



## 3venflow

The 0.42 demo is AEW's best since November 13, 2019.

The viewership rating their best since the unopposed 1m show on 9/9. NXT eats into the totals, people have to accept this if they're expecting a million regularly. That is only gonna come if they organically grow their fan base some more.

Sting's second appearance next week will do a big rating itself, but the card as a whole may not be strong enough for a 1m rating while opposed.


----------



## Prosper

913k overall and .42 in the demo is pretty damn good. A million next week I'm assuming.


----------



## RiverFenix

Will be interesting to see the second hour numbers.


----------



## RapShepard

What's the fixation on a million. They're doing good. Usually a top 10 show every Wednesday


----------



## Klitschko

bdon said:


> Nah. This is about what I expected.
> 
> If they don’t do a million next week, then it is a disappointment. Anything less than 950k, and they simply will never grow the audience.


Isn't it a little disappointing to you that Omega/Moxley couldn't get them to 1 mil? Even after all the hype and it being possibly the biggest match they could do. You know what I mean? And they probably had a little boost too before their match even started with Sting showing up.


----------



## Joe Gill

Chip Chipperson said:


> I am hopeful that they can hit a million next week. Sting speaking for the first time on a wrestling show in quite a number of years.


sting/ moxley/omega should dominate next week with multiple segments to start the show and end the show... instead we will get the usual 15 minute match between dustin and dork order. I have a feeling they are going to hold off moxley because they have to find room for freaking th2 and brian pillman jr.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

I wanna see the full chart, AEW has a solid shot of being a top 3 cable show this week.


----------



## VIP86

if this rating is true then i would be disappointed
and as i said before, AEW will not grow until they move to an unopposed night


----------



## Alright_Mate

Great demo; however I honestly thought this show would hit 1 million.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Damn, it must be panic stations for AEW right now. 913k with the biggest match you can offer plus Sting, Jericho and a rumble...


el oh el


----------



## Prosper

Klitschko said:


> Isn't it a little disappointing to you that Omega/Moxley couldn't get them to 1 mil? Even after all the hype and it being possibly the biggest match they could do. You know what I mean? And they probably had a little boost too before their match even started with Sting showing up.


Hour 1 may have been on the lower end. I'm thinking Sting and the main event probably were at a million then it just averaged out overall.

Regardless of a million or not, this is a very healthy number for AEW.



Chip Chipperson said:


> Damn, it must be panic stations for AEW right now. 913k with the biggest match you can offer plus Sting, Jericho and a rumble...


Lol they're probably celebrating


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I’m sticking with this
> 
> since there was no overrun - 0.35 / 910k


not bad - overall was spot-on

demo, seems like far off?


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

I'm confused as to how an unadvertised Sting appearance over halfway through the show was supposed to push them above 1 million???


----------



## bdon

I just looked at next week’s card. Goddamn these people are dumb. Pop the rating and social media awareness with Sting THIS week, promise HIM in a speaking segment next week, and on that same card you have to deliver your best talent: Omega acting a prick, Page at his drunken best, Moxley on a fucking warpath to find Omega, MJF vs Sammy for a diamond ring, etc. 

Two steps forward, one step back.

I am sure they’ll hit a million next week, but that is not the best time to do a million. You have to CAPITALIZE on these moments!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334632627094085639


----------



## Pippen94

Shit - big demo!!!


----------



## Klitschko

RapShepard said:


> What's the fixation on a million. They're doing good. Usually a top 10 show every Wednesday


My personal fixation on them hitting 1 million is that its a big number for them. They have shown they could hit it from time to time. And this was their biggest match they could possibly do with weeks of build up for the whole show. 900k is fine and all, but this show probably would have hit 1 million few months ago. Its a bit worrying that the increase really wasn't that big. But thats just from my point of view. I know I'm probably overreacting.


----------



## izhack111

Only in 5 years or so I can see them doing over 1 mill week after week but right now? Hell no..they just dont have star powers and I dont think that people really care about Mjf Darby and etc


----------



## Pentagon Senior

RelivingTheShadow said:


> .42 is the highest rating since the post Full Gear 2019 Fallout show, unopposed shows included.
> 
> Regardless, this rating is irrelevant, who gives a shit about 1 potential outlier rating, key is next week and early 2021, if they can build from this, great, if not, it's meaningless.
> 
> I don't think TNA of all fucking things is going to help them sustain. People excited for this partnership, have you seen TNA's roster? Like, I'm actually befuddled as far as how people think it's exciting.


Agree with you on ratings - this is a nice bump but consistency and growth are more important 

I don't think its Impact so much as the suspense and unpredictability of the whole situation, that's what makes it a compelling storyline to me. Although they apparently have some talented women which AEW could benefit from as well as a couple tag teams for big matches with FTR or The Bucks. But nobody knows what's happening yet anyway, it's that suspense around Omega that's key imo.


----------



## rbl85

prosperwithdeen said:


> Hour 1 may have been on the lower end. I'm thinking Sting and the main event probably were at a million then it just averaged out overall.
> 
> Regardless of a million or not, this is a very healthy number for AEW.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol they're probably celebrating


I don't think Sting had an impact on last show rating because nobody knew (not even the wrestlers except the EVP) that Sting was going to appear.

If Sting have an impact on the rating it will be next week because this time people know that if they watch AEW they will see Sting.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Still couldn't get 1 million viewers even with their biggest match being given away on free tv. Thats A disappointment for them. They can't grow an audience no matter what they do it looks like. You top that off with next week's numbers will drop and it'll be back to normal with the 800,000 viewers.


----------



## Shock Street

The most important number will come next Thursday, when people tune in as a result of Sting and the champ change. If they don't break a mil then then I don't think they ever do it again without something utterly wild happening like NXT being cancelled


----------



## bdon

Klitschko said:


> Isn't it a little disappointing to you that Omega/Moxley couldn't get them to 1 mil? Even after all the hype and it being possibly the biggest match they could do. You know what I mean? And they probably had a little boost too before their match even started with Sting showing up.


Not at all.

This show has been weighed down for over half a year by Jericho and Cody’s bullshit. 2 weeks of building Omega and Moxley to be important figures isn’t going to erase the bad the last 8 months have done.


----------



## NathanMayberry

LifeInCattleClass said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334632627094085639


Him including NXT in that tells you everything you need to know about that number..


913 for a World title match is an L. They showed their ceiling and its really low.


----------



## Joe Gill

bdon said:


> I just looked at next week’s card. Goddamn these people are dumb. Pop the rating and social media awareness with Sting THIS week, promise HIM in a speaking segment next week, and on that same card you have to deliver your best talent: Omega acting a prick, Page at his drunken best, Moxley on a fucking warpath to find Omega, MJF vs Sammy for a diamond ring, etc.
> 
> Two steps forward, one step back.
> 
> I am sure they’ll hit a million next week, but that is not the best time to do a million. You have to CAPITALIZE on these moments!


exactly... next week should be about showcasing only the top talent in the company to build off potential new viewers.... instead we will get dustin rhodes, dork order, th2, brian pillman jr. they dont know what they fuck they are doing.


----------



## izhack111

bdon said:


> I just looked at next week’s card. Goddamn these people are dumb. Pop the rating and social media awareness with Sting THIS week, promise HIM in a speaking segment next week, and on that same card you have to deliver your best talent: Omega acting a prick, Page at his drunken best, Moxley on a fucking warpath to find Omega, MJF vs Sammy for a diamond ring, etc.
> 
> Two steps forward, one step back.
> 
> I am sure they’ll hit a million next week, but that is not the best time to do a million. You have to CAPITALIZE on these moments!


They always do that..they just dont know how to keep new people to watch the show ffs


----------



## Prosper

rbl85 said:


> I don't think Sting had an impact on last show rating because nobody knew (not even the wrestlers except the EVP) that Sting was going to appear.
> 
> If Sting have an impact on the rating it will be next week because this time people know that if they watch AEW they will see Sting.


I'm thinking old WCW fans and the like probably caught wind of it on social media though and probably tuned in to boost a couple of quarter hours, then they probably stayed for the main event. Just speculating.


----------



## rbl85

Ozell Gray said:


> Still couldn't get 1 million viewers even with their biggest match being given away on free tv. *Thats A disappointment for them*. They can't grow an audience no matter what they do it looks like. You top that off with next week's numbers will drop and it'll be back to normal with the 800,000 viewers.


I don't think they're dissapointed XD

The main event probably did more than 1M, the things is people who are only interested in the main event are not going to watch Baker vs Hirsch.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Pentagon Senior said:


> Agree with you on ratings - this is a nice bump but consistency and growth are more important
> 
> I don't think its Impact so much as the suspense and unpredictability of the whole situation, that's what makes it a compelling storyline to me. Although they apparently have some talented women which AEW could benefit from as well as a couple tag teams for big matches with FTR or The Bucks. But nobody knows what's happening yet anyway, it's that suspense around Omega that's key imo.


I agree to an extent about suspense and unpredictability, but ultimately, that has a shelf life and you have to offer a compelling weekly TV product.

Kenny is going to Impact this Tuesday for a promo, and on that same Impact show, they are literally advertising CURT HAWKINS. It's just a BAD look.

Impact has some good women, particularly Deonna Purrazo, and some decent tag teams, which they absolutely don't need, I'm just lost at how this is supposed to be a hot angle for more than 4 weeks.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

RapShepard said:


> What's the fixation on a million. They're doing good. Usually a top 10 show every Wednesday


Seems just an arbitrary number that sounds nice to fans. Like, if they get 975k next week with a strong demo that's still great, surely. One million does sound nice though I'll admit lol


----------



## Ozell Gray

Chip Chipperson said:


> I am hopeful that they can hit a million next week. Sting speaking for the first time on a wrestling show in quite a number of years.


I doubt they hit 1 million viewers next week as the pattern is their numbers go up one week but decline the next so I'm expecting a big drop off next week. Sting was just a one week ratings pop but interest behond that isn't really there. It'll be the usual 800,000 viewers next week.


----------



## Prosper

Ozell Gray said:


> Still couldn't get 1 million viewers even with their biggest match being given away on free tv. Thats A disappointment for them. They can't grow an audience no matter what they do it looks like. You top that off with next week's numbers will drop and it'll be back to normal with the 800,000 viewers.


Lol forum members are the ones harping on about a million not them, they are not disappointed at all, especially with a demo like that.


----------



## Swan-San

They can't live on surprises and title matches. The TV show needs to be good but there's no filter on the unworthyness of half the roster always featuring on the show with poor storytelling in the ring and outside of it.

It'll never grow no matter who you debut unless you've got a good story to go with it, a movie can have all the top actors but if the writer sucks it's not gonna blow past the initial ppl that check it out and say fuck that. Let alone if half the actors suck


----------



## VIP86

why the fuck is Tony Khan tweeting about NXT?
why the president of a company is mentioning his main competitor on his twitter?
what a fucking dumbass thing to do


----------



## iarwain

Did anyone notice Jim Ross saying something like "I wonder how many of the millions watching Dynamite remember the last time Sting was on TNT?"? It just stuck out to me since Dynamite hasn't hit a million viewers for awhile now.


----------



## La Parka

Not a bad rating, you’d like to see more interest in a match like Omega and mox but the rest of the card wasn’t anything special so maybe mox and Omega did big numbers while the rest of the card held em back.


I doubt they do higher than that next week. Sting is not that big of a draw in 2020 and the match card so far is very weak.


----------



## izhack111

Chip Chipperson said:


> I am hopeful that they can hit a million next week. Sting speaking for the first time on a wrestling show in quite a number of years.


I dont think they will, the card is fucking shit


----------



## Ozell Gray

rbl85 said:


> I don't think they're dissapointed XD


They should if they aren't because they had Sting debut and gave away their biggest match on free tv, Jon Moxley vs Kenny Omega and still couldn't get 1 million viewers. Thats bad because they haven't been able to grow no matter what they've tried.


----------



## Whoanma

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334635044774744067


----------



## bdon

Pentagon Senior said:


> Seems just an arbitrary number that sounds nice to fans. Like, if they get 975k next week with a strong demo that's still great, surely. One million does sound nice though I'll admit lol


Having 1m show up for your restaurant’s grand opening while offering steaks galore is cool and all, but if 1.5m show up the next day looking for this amazing steak and are served a lukewarm hotdog, you will fight tooth and nail to get that 1.5m back into your establishment.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Tbh, 61 year old Sting isn't a draw in 2020 and i think they got no chance of hitting 1m next week. People are setting themselves up for disappointment next week. Both rating and demo will go down.

A world title match between your biggest star and possibly your best wrester is a much bigger draw then Sting showing up. So if this week wasn't 1m, i dont see why more people will tune in next week.


----------



## Prosper

iarwain said:


> Did anyone notice Jim Ross saying something like "I wonder how many of the millions watching Dynamite remember the last time Sting was on TNT?"? It just stuck out to me since Dynamite hasn't hit a million viewers for awhile now.


Lol the cable audience is not the whole audience.


----------



## rbl85

Ozell Gray said:


> I doubt they hit 1 million viewers next week as the pattern is their numbers go up one week but decline the next so I'm expecting a big drop off next week. *Sting was just a one week ratings pop but interest behond that isn't really there*. It'll be the usual 800,000 viewers next week.


Yeah so much people knew he was going to be here.....

People are not going to tune in to see Sting when they don't know that he's going to appear.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

iarwain said:


> Did anyone notice Jim Ross saying something like "I wonder how many of the millions watching Dynamite remember the last time Sting was on TNT?"? It just stuck out to me since Dynamite hasn't hit a million viewers for awhile now.


...... in america..... on cable

overall watchers globally is way over the mil mark


----------



## Kentucky34

They blew their load this week. It's all downhill from here. 

Nice audience retention by NXT btw.


----------



## rbl85

Ozell Gray said:


> They should if they aren't because they had Sting debut and gave away their biggest match on free tv, Jon Moxley vs Kenny Omega and still couldn't get 1 million viewers. Thats bad because they haven't been able to grow no matter what they've tried.


A surprise debut does not give a rating boost.


----------



## VIP86

next week ratings will actually be lower than this week


----------



## Ozell Gray

prosperwithdeen said:


> Lol forum members are the ones harping on about a million not them, they are not disappointed at all, especially with a demo like that.


1 million viewers is better than 800,000 viewers and their goal is to grow their audience because if they can't then WarnerMedia will eventually drop them. Demos don't matter when Dynamite is tv-14 and wrestling has 80% of it's fanbase as low income individuals.


----------



## Ozell Gray

rbl85 said:


> A surprise debut does not give a rating boost.


It was something big that happened and it barely moved the needle.


----------



## rbl85

Ozell Gray said:


> 1 million viewers is better than 800,000 viewers and their goal is to grow their audience because if they can't then WarnerMedia will eventually drop them. Demos don't matter when Dynamite is tv-14 and wrestling has 80% of it's fanbase as low income individuals.


I can assure you that TNT would prefer 913K viewers with a 0.42 in the demo than 1M viewers and 0.36 in the demo.


----------



## Prosper

Ozell Gray said:


> 1 million viewers is better than 800,000 viewers and their goal is to grow their audience because if they can't then WarnerMedia will eventually drop them. Demos don't matter when Dynamite is tv-14 and wrestling has 80% of it's fanbase as low income individuals.


Lol I'm not getting into this with you right now...same arguments, different day


----------



## rbl85

Ozell Gray said:


> It was something big that happened and it barely moved the needle.


Use your brain a bit.

People not knowing that Sting appear on Dynamite.

You understand now ?


----------



## Ozell Gray

rbl85 said:


> Yeah so much people knew he was going to be here.....
> 
> People are not going to tune in to see Sting when they don't know that he's going to appear.


Didn't say anyone knew he was going to be there but I'm betting his segment did big numbers though.


----------



## One Shed

I honestly do think Sting will cause next week to hit a million. They need to deliver to keep the curious potential new viewer or lapsed fan around. An OC match is not a good way to do that. Hopefully it does not open the show.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Swan-San said:


> They can't live on surprises and title matches.


I think this is the most important thing. They really need to act now and build off what's happened with this past episode because odds are they won't get a surprise boost the likes of Sting for a long time now. Nobody in the free agent pool seems interested in going to AEW.

Brock, CM Punk and who else is in that pool? Both Brock and CM Punk have no interest. This is it, capitalise on Sting and throw on an epic show next week or it could be the last time for a long time that they're given a chance.



VIP86 said:


> why the fuck is Tony Khan tweeting about NXT?
> why the president of a company is mentioning his main competitor on his twitter?
> what a fucking dumbass thing to do


Yeah, I thought that was kind of markish of him also. 



izhack111 said:


> I dont think they will, the card is fucking shit


What is the card for next week? Lets discuss that.


----------



## Dark Emperor

LifeInCattleClass said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334632627094085639


Funny how Tony Khan emphasizes the demo and did not talk about viewership. Even they are secretly disappointed.

They shouted loudly from the rooftops the time AEW got 1m viewers unopposed. This demo only became a thing to celebrate since AEW/Meltzer decided to make it so.


----------



## rbl85

Ozell Gray said:


> Didn't say anyone knew he was going to be there but I'm betting his segment did big numbers though.


It's not 2-3 min of Sting who's going to change the ratings of a segment (even more when it's the end of a segment), it will maybe do well in the minute by minute but overall the impact will be minuscule.


----------



## Ozell Gray

prosperwithdeen said:


> Lol I'm not getting into this with you right now...same arguments, different day


I wasn't arguing. I was just saying that 1 million viewers is better than the 800,000 viewers that they're getting now and the demos for wrestling is meaningless since most fans are poor.


----------



## Buhalovski

I dont think they are getting 1m next week, as someone else said 60 years old Sting is not that kind of a draw in 2020. The only way to hit constant 1m is with storylines or if they sign someone like Punk or Brock.

Kinda dissapointed, 900k is not that big of a number for your most ever hyped up match on TV.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

rbl85 said:


> A surprise debut does not give a rating boost.


What?

You don't think the AEW twitter saying "STING IS HERE!" doesn't cause people to turn the channel? Of course it gives a ratings boost, you would've had a significant amount of people turn over hoping to catch a glimpse of Sting, a replay of Sting etc.


----------



## Ozell Gray

rbl85 said:


> Use your brain a bit.
> 
> People not knowing that Sting appear on Dynamite.
> 
> You understand now ?


Again. That has nothing to do with I said. They had Sting appear and had Moxley vs Omega and it drew under 1 million viewers which was their biggest match.


----------



## One Shed

Chip Chipperson said:


> What?
> 
> You don't think the AEW twitter saying "STING IS HERE!" doesn't cause people to turn the channel? Of course it gives a ratings boost, you would've had a significant amount of people turn over hoping to catch a glimpse of Sting, a replay of Sting etc.


ESPN even tweeted it. It definitely got them a boost.


----------



## bdon

Next week’s card is the far bigger disappointment than not hitting a million viewers this week. You have to book accordingly, and you had to save some juice for next week. This is just like every goddamn Fallout Show they have done: good build to PPV, great show happens with good results, and they throw QT Marshall, Joey Janela, and Butcher and Blade in multiple different segments.

You HAVE to capitalize on the moments that you expect to pop the ratings. Otherwise the viewing audience becomes conditioned to just watch the big moments on YouTube, because they show up expecting the steak they heard about and are served bologna.


----------



## Ozell Gray

rbl85 said:


> It's not 2-3 min of Sting who's going to change the ratings of a segment (even more when it's the end of a segment), it will maybe do well in the minute by minute but overall the impact will be minuscule.


I think it's going to do good in the quarterly hour ratings just the from the fact that when people heard Sting was on Dynamite they switched to Dynamite to see him.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

If Impact beats NXT in the ratings next week I am going to shit my pants laughing


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Can someone post the card for next week? Or send me a link to view it? All I've seen is 10 Vs Dustin and Sting will speak which seems more good than bad, lol.




Two Sheds said:


> ESPN even tweeted it. It definitely got them a boost.


Yeah, exactly. Any Sting fan reading that would've been over there.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> Next week’s card is the far bigger disappointment than not hitting a million viewers this week. You have to book accordingly, and you had to save some juice for next week. This is just like every goddamn Fallout Show they have done: good build to PPV, great show happens with good results, and they throw QT Marshall, Joey Janela, and Butcher and Blade in multiple different segments.
> 
> You HAVE to capitalize on the moments that you expect to pop the ratings. Otherwise the viewing audience becomes conditioned to just watch the big moments on YouTube, because they show up expecting the steak they heard about and are served bologna.


As The Simpsons taught us: "You don't win friends with salad."


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lol, this is a good one


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334639434097188864


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> As The Simpsons taught us: "You don't win friends with salad."


I’m dead serious. I was fine with the rating this week. I suspect they’ll hit close to a million next week on Sting’s brand recognition alone.

But if the card is as advertised, then they are fucked after that. None of those new and/or lapsed fans will tune in the following week where the meat and potatoes of the Mox/Omega Fallout will occur.

Pissed away a great opportunity to really grab the audience by the balls and make them stay and watch.


----------



## VIP86

Chip Chipperson said:


> Can someone post the card for next week? Or send me a link to view it? All I've seen is 10 Vs Dustin and Sting will speak which seems more good than bad, lol.


Sting Promo
Orange Cassidy vs. MJF
The Young Bucks vs. The Hybrid 2
The Inner Circle Ultimatum
Abadon vs. TBA
FTR vs. The Varsity Blondes
Lance Archer and The Lucha Bros. vs. Eddie Kingston, The Butcher & The Blade


----------



## Klitschko

Dark Emperor said:


> Tbh, 61 year old Sting isn't a draw in 2020 and i think they got no chance of hitting 1m next week. People are setting themselves up for disappointment next week. Both rating and demo will go down.
> 
> A world title match between your biggest star and possibly your best wrester is a much bigger draw then Sting showing up. So if this week wasn't 1m, i dont see why more people will tune in next week.


When Sting showed up AEW ended up exploding on social media and trending number 1 all of a sudden. It seems kind of crazy to me when you say that Sting isn't a draw in 2020. Maybe not as much as before, but he's still one of the biggest draws In Wrestling.


----------



## bdon

VIP86 said:


> Sting Promo
> Orange Cassidy vs. MJF
> The Young Bucks vs. The Hybrid 2
> The Inner Circle Ultimatum
> Abadon vs. TBA
> FTR vs. The Varsity Blondes
> Lance Archer and The Lucha Bros. vs. Eddie Kingston, The Butcher & The Blade


Exactly. You will have more eyes on your product than ever before with fans dying to see and hear Sting, and they don’t have anything for Cody, Omega, Moxley, or PAC.

How goddamn stupid is that?


----------



## izhack111

VIP86 said:


> Sting Promo
> Orange Cassidy vs. MJF
> The Young Bucks vs. The Hybrid 2
> The Inner Circle Ultimatum
> Abadon vs. TBA
> FTR vs. The Varsity Blondes
> Lance Archer and The Lucha Bros. vs. Eddie Kingston, The Butcher & The Blade


Most of it sounds like a Dark ep


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> If Impact beats NXT in the ratings next week I am going to shit my pants laughing


if this happens it will show how dedicated and mobile the AEW fanbase is. But how many homes even get the channel


----------



## Mister Sinister

Sting gave them a boost.
Next week really needs some more matches and story segments. The show needs a Miro match next week.
I bet they won't even open next week's Dynamite with anything about what happened in the main event or on Impact. They will open cold with OC vs MJF or the tag match. They still don't know how to do continuity.


----------



## Pippen94

Is that biggest demo for year??


----------



## rbl85

Ozell Gray said:


> I think it's going to do good in the quarterly hour ratings just the from the fact that when people heard Sting was on Dynamite they switched to Dynamite to see him.


Sting appear on Q5 (so the start of the second hour) :

First 5min45 of this quarter is the tag match plus the attack.

5min45 - 8min45 = time Sting is on the screen (3min)

Then 8min45 - 11min45 = commercials

11min45 - 13min15 = announce table talking about what happened before the break.

13min15 - 15min (end of Q5) : announcement of next week matches and 90% of Shida backstage interview.

The impact that Sting had (if he had one) was probably nullify by the 3min commercials right after his début (AEW always lose tons of viewers during the commercials)


----------



## izhack111

Pippen94 said:


> Is that biggest demo for year??


Yes


----------



## Chip Chipperson

VIP86 said:


> Sting Promo
> Orange Cassidy vs. MJF
> The Young Bucks vs. The Hybrid 2
> The Inner Circle Ultimatum
> Abadon vs. TBA
> FTR vs. The Varsity Blondes
> Lance Archer and The Lucha Bros. vs. Eddie Kingston, The Butcher & The Blade


Thank you sir, you're a gent.

Yeah, gotta be honest the only thing I'm super interested in is the six man tag and Sting speaking. Omega follow up is interesting also.

I think I would've loaded it up, they'll have interest because of Sting so why not Moxley speaking? Why not Hangman in a match? Another Jericho match?

As soon as these old school wrestling fans see Orange Cassidy in a half serious match they'll be done.


----------



## Klitschko

Are they really not doing anything with Moxley/Omega and Cody/Darby/Team Tazz next week?


----------



## rbl85

VIP86 said:


> Sting Promo
> Orange Cassidy vs. MJF
> The Young Bucks vs. The Hybrid 2
> The Inner Circle Ultimatum
> Abadon vs. TBA
> FTR vs. The Varsity Blondes
> Lance Archer and The Lucha Bros. vs. Eddie Kingston, The Butcher & The Blade


Omega will also have an interview.


----------



## Pippen94

Love if orange got over million again


----------



## izhack111

Klitschko said:


> Are they really not doing anything with Moxley/Omega and Cody/Darby/Team Tazz next week?


Like they said in the past they dont run with the same stories week after week


----------



## Klitschko

izhack111 said:


> Like they said in the past they dont run with the same stories week after week


They must be the dumbest mother fuckers alive if they ignore two of their biggest storylines on a show that has a possibility of new fans tunning in because of Sting.


----------



## 3venflow

Omega will speak next week per Meltzer.

Until AEW gets a second show, we're going to see this rotation of storylines in and out. The Eddie/B&B vs. Death Triangle/Archer angle took a back seat this week for example (except Eddie's weird cameo with about 2 seconds left). I think PAC is back in the UK again, hence Archer's unlikely alliance with the Lucha Bros.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Thank you sir, you're a gent.
> 
> Yeah, gotta be honest the only thing I'm super interested in is the six man tag and Sting speaking. Omega follow up is interesting also.
> 
> I think I would've loaded it up, they'll have interest because of Sting so why not Moxley speaking? Why not Hangman in a match? Another Jericho match?
> 
> As soon as these old school wrestling fans see Orange Cassidy in a half serious match they'll be done.


Exactly man. That card screams for fans to stay away. 


Klitschko said:


> Are they really not doing anything with Moxley/Omega and Cody/Darby/Team Tazz next week?


Yes, they really are this goddamn stupid.


Pippen94 said:


> Love if orange got over million again


Do you want a million and a half people asking for steak at $25 a pop or the occassional million people showing up asking for that $2 bologna sandwich?


----------



## Pippen94

I have feeling these aren't final ratings - no official results from ratings site or alvarez


----------



## bdon

3venflow said:


> Omega will speak next week per Meltzer.
> 
> Until AEW gets a second show, we're going to see this rotation of storylines in and out. The Eddie/B&B vs. Death Triangle/Archer angle took a back seat this week for example (except Eddie's weird cameo with about 2 seconds left). I think PAC is back in the UK again, hence Archer's unlikely alliance with the Lucha Bros.


Eddie, Archer, Lucha Bros, and Butcher and Blade are not fucking good enough to be headlining shows. They are not people you feature if you want to maintain an audience.


----------



## izhack111

3venflow said:


> Omega will speak next week per Meltzer.
> 
> Until AEW gets a second show, we're going to see this rotation of storylines in and out. The Eddie/B&B vs. Death Triangle/Archer angle took a back seat this week for example (except Eddie's weird cameo with about 2 seconds left). I think PAC is back in the UK again, hence Archer's unlikely alliance with the Lucha Bros.


Can't wait for the second show


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> Exactly man. That card screams for fans to stay away.
> Yes, they really are this goddamn stupid.
> 
> Do you want a million and a half people asking for steak at $25 a pop or the occassional million people showing up asking for that $2 bologna sandwich?


A million buying an orange crush (I think that is a soda or something)


----------



## izhack111

The second show will help a lot


----------



## Klitschko

I'm not a booker and I'm not claiming to be an expert, but next week I would have loaded it up with Sting promo, Inner Circle promo, something with Pac, continued the story of Cody/Darby/Team Tazz, big segment with Moxley/Omega, maybe a short brawl with a returning FTR and the Bucks, brought Brodi Lee back if possible for a surprise attack on someone. All this shit instead of these third rate tier storylines they are actually putting on next week.


----------



## Kentucky34

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334643809964191744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334633044167241728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334633637342535680


----------



## bdon

Klitschko said:


> I'm not a booker and I'm not claiming to be an expert, but next week I would have loaded it up with Sting promo, Inner Circle promo, something with Pac, continued the story of Cody/Darby/Team Tazz, big segment with Moxley/Omega, maybe a short brawl with a returning FTR and the Bucks, brought Brodi Lee back if possible for a surprise attack on someone. All this shit instead of these third rate tier storylines they are actually putting on next week.


Now you know the pain I have felt after damn near every PPV. They suck at Fall Out shows.


----------



## 3venflow

bdon said:


> Eddie, Archer, Lucha Bros, and Butcher and Blade are not fucking good enough to be headlining shows. They are not people you feature if you want to maintain an audience.


It's just the way TK does things - shared spotlight. If it was me, I'd focus on the biggest draws/programs in the main event every week, even if it means doing six-man tags to protect the big dogs.

But part of AEW's harmonious atmosphere is because everyone gets their moment, even QT Marshall got his memorable moment in the Bunkhouse Match a few weeks ago. Best Friends vs. PnP got the main event slot (and justified it) even though these are midcard teams.

BTW I think Archer and Death Triangle are talents worthy of being in a main event slot with the right opponents. Kingston is not a main eventer to me (he talks like one, but doesn't look or wrestle like one), nor are B&B.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Klitschko said:


> I'm not a booker and I'm not claiming to be an expert, but next week I would have loaded it up with Sting promo, Inner Circle promo, something with Pac, continued the story of Cody/Darby/Team Tazz, big segment with Moxley/Omega, maybe a short brawl with a returning FTR and the Bucks, brought Brodi Lee back if possible for a surprise attack on someone. All this shit instead of these third rate tier storylines they are actually putting on next week.


You don't need to be a booker or an expert to know this stuff. Kenny is a hot angle so he should be on, you then want to load the card with recognisable stars that people know so that they stick around and tell their friends about this new hot show.

Jericho should be on, Sting, Pac, Cody, Kenny, Brodie, Taz, Billy Gunn (Yes, seriously, I'd have him lose a quick match), Dustin etc.


----------



## bdon

3venflow said:


> It's just the way TK does things - shared spotlight. If it was me, I'd focus on the biggest draws/programs in the main event every week, even if it means doing six-man tags to protect the big dogs.
> 
> But part of AEW's harmonious atmosphere is because everyone gets their moment, even QT Marshall got his memorable moment in the Bunkhouse Match a few weeks ago. Best Friends vs. PnP got the main event slot (and justified it) even though these are midcard teams.
> 
> BTW I think Archer and Death Triangle are talents worthy of being in a main event slot with the right opponents. Kingston is not a main eventer to me (he talks like one, but doesn't look or wrestle like one), nor are B&B.


I understand it is how he does things, but that isn’t how you make money. Crowds aren’t going to tune in in droves to see QT fucking Marshall’s goddamn Rhodes kiss-ass feel-good-story.


----------



## Pippen94

3venflow said:


> It's just the way TK does things - shared spotlight. If it was me, I'd focus on the biggest draws/programs in the main event every week, even if it means doing six-man tags to protect the big dogs.
> 
> But part of AEW's harmonious atmosphere is because everyone gets their moment, even QT Marshall got his memorable moment in the Bunkhouse Match a few weeks ago. Best Friends vs. PnP got the main event slot (and justified it) even though these are midcard teams.
> 
> BTW I think Archer and Death Triangle are talents worthy of being in a main event slot with the right opponents. Kingston is not a main eventer to me (he talks like one, but doesn't look or wrestle like one), nor are B&B.


It's called building new stars. If you feature only top talent once they go so does ratings / company...


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> You don't need to be a booker or an expert to know this stuff. Kenny is a hot angle so he should be on, you then want to load the card with recognisable stars that people know so that they stick around and tell their friends about this new hot show.
> 
> Jericho should be on, Sting, Pac, Cody, Kenny, Brodie, Taz, Billy Gunn (Yes, seriously, I'd have him lose a quick match), Dustin etc.


It is like they genuinely don’t care if they create new fans or not.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> It's called building new stars. If you feature only top talent once they go so does ratings / company...


You don't build new stars on this show, Pippen. This could be a second chance for AEW they don't need to see new guys they need established stars in almost every segment.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Kentucky34 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334643809964191744
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334633044167241728
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334633637342535680


Wow picking random tweets, how bad you are.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> You don't build new stars on this show, Pippen. This could be a second chance for AEW they don't need to see new guys they need established stars in almost every segment.


You build new stars by featuring them which means putting them on bigger dynamites, go home shows etc. Sacrifice ratings for long term good. Or you could yes following TNA method....


----------



## Kentucky34

ProjectGargano said:


> Wow picking random tweets, how bad you are.


Those guys are right.


----------



## bdon

Pippen94 said:


> You build new stars by featuring them which means putting them on bigger dynamites, go home shows etc. Sacrifice ratings for long term good. Or you could yes following TNA method....


You really have no clue.


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> You really have no clue.


No - I am right. TNA rode sting, Nash, hall, hogan... Old stars can bring in old fans & create buzz. New stars will carry company long term


----------



## bdon

Pippen94 said:


> No - I am right. TNA rode sting, Nash, hall, hogan... Old stars can bring in old fans & create buzz. New stars will carry company long term


The point is you have to establish your current stars, man. Sting offers a perfect chance to put eyes on an Omega, Darby, Starks, Cage, etc that haven’t had this kind of light on them prior to this week. Omega has a story surrounding them that is, to my knowledge (I’ll let my version of Brian Last aka @Chip Chipperson correct me if I’m wrong) a storyline that has not really been done on US soil. Darby may not be advertised currently, which is fine, but he HAS to be front and center in some kind of segment opposite Sting to make those former Little Stingers latch onto Darby in an emotional connection they can WANT to share with their children. Next week would be the time I’d have Page front and center with the Dark Order, knocking Dustin out with a Buckshot Lariat and pounding a couple beers in celebration. Matt Hardy would be screaming Truth is the Truth when I’d have Sammy AND MJF running his ass over with an “MTV Pimp My Ride” golf cart edition from MJF’s kayfabe personal garage.

You don’t put guys on television who struggle to keep the attention of the AEW faithful like Butcher, Blade, and Kingston or Brian Pillman Jr or the very polarizing figures like Marko, Cassidy, John Silver, etc.

They have a chance to lift their floor from 700k on a bad night to 850k next week. Their ceiling could go from 900k to 1.1m, but it requires them establishing their current best to the new sets of eyeballs that will be on them.


----------



## Prosper

bdon said:


> Eddie, Archer, Lucha Bros, and Butcher and Blade are not fucking good enough to be headlining shows. They are not people you feature if you want to maintain an audience.


Lol dude it’s fine the AEW audience is here to stay. There’s nothing wrong with rotating storylines in and out. If people weren’t interested in most of the show we would be well below 600K and way lower than .42 in the demo. You guys are freakin out lol. The audience was booing like crazy for Jon Silver being eliminated last night, the fans love the whole show for the most part. If Kenny wasn’t booked for that interview for example I would have no problem waiting until next week to see him. Don’t get me wrong though I do see your point of view and I’m not writing it off as you not making sense.


----------



## Medic

Two Sheds said:


> I honestly do think Sting will cause next week to hit a million. They need to deliver to keep the curious potential new viewer or lapsed fan around. An OC match is not a good way to do that. Hopefully it does not open the show.



That's the problem, people will tune in for Sting and see a 15 minute OC match with 100 near falls and then a dark jobber 15 minute match with another 100 near falls.
Next week is a big show for them to grab some new fans, I hope it works out for them.


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> The point is you have to establish your current stars, man. Sting offers a perfect chance to put eyes on an Omega, Darby, Starks, Cage, etc that haven’t had this kind of light on them prior to this week. Omega has a story surrounding them that is, to my knowledge (I’ll let my version of Brian Last aka @Chip Chipperson correct me if I’m wrong) a storyline that has not really been done on US soil. Darby may not be advertised currently, which is fine, but he HAS to be front and center in some kind of segment opposite Sting to make those former Little Stingers latch onto Darby in an emotional connection they can WANT to share with their children. Next week would be the time I’d have Page front and center with the Dark Order, knocking Dustin out with a Buckshot Lariat and pounding a couple beers in celebration. Matt Hardy would be screaming Truth is the Truth when I’d have Sammy AND MJF running his ass over with an “MTV Pimp My Ride” golf cart edition from MJF’s kayfabe personal garage.
> 
> You don’t put guys on television who struggle to keep the attention of the AEW faithful like Butcher, Blade, and Kingston or Brian Pillman Jr or the very polarizing figures like Marko, Cassidy, John Silver, etc.
> 
> They have a chance to lift their floor from 700k on a bad night to 850k next week. Their ceiling could go from 900k to 1.1m, but it requires them establishing their current best to the new sets of eyeballs that will be on them.


First of all chip thinks there was one Texas promotion so linking him to Brian Last is wrong. 

You've moved away from earlier comments here about established guys being in every segment. New performers need exposure too. TNA went down that route banking on old wcw & wwe guys & then went of business.

I agree Sting should work with Darby but nobody here has questioned that.

Orange is a proven ratings draw. If he attracts younger viewers yet alienates 50+ he will be pushed


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> You build new stars by featuring them which means putting them on bigger dynamites, go home shows etc. Sacrifice ratings for long term good. Or you could yes following TNA method....


If AEW had a number of guys who were good and wouldn't turn people away I'd agree that a spot for someone on TV could be good.

AEW has a lot of undesirable talent that is going to turn Sting fans away though. I would not be putting the likes of Orange Cassidy and The Dark Order on my TV when I'm expecting a significant boost.


----------



## Pippen94

prosperwithdeen said:


> Lol dude it’s fine the AEW audience is here to stay. There’s nothing wrong with rotating storylines in and out. If people weren’t interested in most of the show we would be well below 600K and way lower than .42 in the demo. You guys are freakin out lol. The audience was booing like crazy for Jon Silver being eliminated last night, the fans love the whole show for the most part. If Kenny wasn’t booked for that interview for example I would have no problem waiting until next week to see him. Don’t get me wrong though I do see your point of view and I’m not writing it off as you not making sense.


I know - these guys are drawing young demo but ppl here want to cut them down for ex wwe wcw wrestlers


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> First of all chip thinks there was one Texas promotion so linking him to Brian Last is wrong.


Um sorry, what?

I'm a huge fan of the Funks and the Amarillo territory (As a matter of fact I think I have an old program somewhere of this territory)

I'm also a huge fan of Dallas, The Von Erichs and World Class.

You've been told to stop doing this, stop pretending you know me and that you have insight into what I know because it's super annoying.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> Um sorry, what?
> 
> I'm a huge fan of the Funks and the Amarillo territory (As a matter of fact I think I have an old program somewhere of this territory)
> 
> I'm also a huge fan of Dallas, The Von Erichs and World Class.
> 
> You've been told to stop doing this, stop pretending you know me and that you have insight into what I know because it's super annoying.


I don't care who you are & I don't wanna know.
I judge you only on your comments here & for a self proclaimed wrestling traditionalist there seems to be many gaps in your knowledge.
I know & love wrestling; I need to call you out on these things


----------



## Klitschko

I mean they could still push old established guys and new unknown young guys even if they put on their biggest storylines every single week.


----------



## USAUSA1

Just to be clear, this thread is about tv ratings. If you don't want to talk about ratings, just don't come in here.


----------



## Prosper

Klitschko said:


> I mean they could still push old established guys and new unknown young guys even if they put on their biggest storylines every single week.


With 90 minutes of TV time and a roster as vast as it is? In WWE yeah you can get away with it with their 7 hours of air time, but not AEW. They have to rotate. From what I can see most wrestling fans here just want the best of the best talent on their TV 100% of the time because for them it means maximum enjoyment. Fuck the rest of the roster right? Lol that’s elementary thinking and a subjective mindset that only aligns with personal interests.

But wrestling has never been that way. Tony is all about giving exposure to multiple talents. Older more established guys have to sit out every now and then. To this point, his strategy hasn’t been a problem so unless they start doing 500K overall with NXT type demos, then why not showcase the talent that you signed? Most of them are over in one way or the other. As I said earlier, the crowd was pissed about someone like John Silver getting thrown out of the battle Royal lol so if they’re invested In him then I’m sure it’s the same with the rest of the roster. The AEW audience is here to stay regardless. And they are pretty happy with what they got considering that wrestling is not in some kind of boom period along with the fact they know that probably 3/4 of their audience is streaming.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> I don't care who you are & I don't wanna know.
> I judge you only on your comments here & for a self proclaimed wrestling traditionalist there seems to be many gaps in your knowledge.
> I know & love wrestling; I need to call you out on these things


There are gaps in my knowledge but not knowing about the Amarillo territory would be a major one. I claim to be a traditionalist and despite being called a historian a few times on here I often say I don't class myself as one.

Also, this thread isn't about me and nobody wants to read what I do or don't know so please remain on topic


----------



## Joe Gill

prosperwithdeen said:


> With 90 minutes of TV time and a roster as vast as it is? In WWE yeah you can get away with it with their 7 hours of air time, but not AEW. They have to rotate. From what I can see most wrestling fans here just want the best of the best talent on their TV 100% of the time because for them it means maximum enjoyment. Fuck the rest of the roster right? Lol that’s elementary thinking and a subjective mindset that only aligns with personal interests.
> 
> But wrestling has never been that way. Tony is all about giving exposure to multiple talents. Older more established guys have to sit out every now and then. To this point, his strategy hasn’t been a problem so unless they start doing 500K overall with NXT type demos, then why not showcase the talent that you signed? Most of them are over in one way or the other. As I said earlier, the crowd was pissed about someone like John Silver getting thrown out of the battle Royal lol so if they’re invested In him then I’m sure it’s the same with the rest of the roster. The AEW audience is here to stay regardless.


it depends on what young talent is being showcased. .guys like darby, john silver, orange, mjf, jungle boy.... sure.... but scrubs like qt marshall and random jobbers should never be on dynamite unless it is a squash match. Why the hell is dustin rhodes vs random dork order booked for next week? not a single person on the planet wants to watch that match. 
And top stars should never sit out dynamite... Steve Austn was on RAW every damn week in 1998 and the fans loved it... vince never said you know what Austin...take a week off because we are booking savio vega instead. Why should wrestling fans suffer through pointless garbage matches just because Tony is too nice of a guy to start firing wrestlers and has a bloated roster?


----------



## bdon

prosperwithdeen said:


> Lol dude it’s fine the AEW audience is here to stay. There’s nothing wrong with rotating storylines in and out. If people weren’t interested in most of the show we would be well below 600K and way lower than .42 in the demo. You guys are freakin out lol. The audience was booing like crazy for Jon Silver being eliminated last night, the fans love the whole show for the most part. If Kenny wasn’t booked for that interview for example I would have no problem waiting until next week to see him. Don’t get me wrong though I do see your point of view and I’m not writing it off as you not making sense.


The audience is stuck in the 700-850k range. Yes. We agree on that. Why would you not want to grow that audience by limiting the exposure of those who aren’t likely to snag those fans who are on the fence about your product? You have diehard fans like Chip, Two Sheds, myself and the like who care enough to stay on this site more than we probably should, enjoy the product half the time, and we still mostly watch. How many more people out there are like us who simply refuse to stick through the dumb shit to find the bits we enjoy?

Kingston, Pullman Jr, QT Marshall, and the like can be used in filer episodes. The show following a massive debut of The Icon, The IWC Indy Darling of Indy Darling running to another company with the World Title, etc is NOT the time to produce a single ounce of filler content. Now is the time to sink hooks into those fans who show up looking for Kobe Japanese steak (Sting), and you keep them around with your house sirloin (Cody, Omega, Page, Mox, Jericho, MJF, PAC, Miro).

With those new eyes invested over the next 2-3 weeks, you begin to present your Junior stars like Jungle Boy, Darby, and Sammy. Hell even begin introducing Cassidy and John Silver as the comedy undercard guy that they are.

But you do NOT put those guys who are not ready made stars on a show that is set to bring a LOT of eyes. They did that on the premiere episode with Sammy Guevara and the like, and they lost eyes quickly.


----------



## Pippen94

The 18-34 male demo


AEW - .29
NXT - .04


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> The audience is stuck in the 700-850k range. Yes. We agree on that. Why would you not want to grow that audience by limiting the exposure of those who aren’t likely to snag those fans who are on the fence about your product? You have diehard fans like Chip, Two Sheds, myself and the like who care enough to stay on this site more than we probably should, enjoy the product half the time, and we still mostly watch. How many more people out there are like us who simply refuse to stick through the dumb shit to find the bits we enjoy?
> 
> Kingston, Pullman Jr, QT Marshall, and the like can be used in filer episodes. The show following a massive debut of The Icon, The IWC Indy Darling of Indy Darling running to another company with the World Title, etc is NOT the time to produce a single ounce of filler content. Now is the time to sink hooks into those fans who show up looking for Kobe Japanese steak (Sting), and you keep them around with your house sirloin (Cody, Omega, Page, Mox, Jericho, MJF, PAC, Miro).
> 
> With those new eyes invested over the next 2-3 weeks, you begin to present your Junior stars like Jungle Boy, Darby, and Sammy. Hell even begin introducing Cassidy and John Silver as the comedy undercard guy that they are.
> 
> But you do NOT put those guys who are not ready made stars on a show that is set to bring a LOT of eyes. They did that on the premiere episode with Sammy Guevara and the like, and they lost eyes quickly.


Steve Austin wasn't immediate ratings or ppv draw but luckily most established names had left & wwe persevered. Aew should always look to work in new talent; short term pain long term gain


----------



## Prosper

bdon said:


> The audience is stuck in the 700-850k range. Yes. We agree on that. Why would you not want to grow that audience by limiting the exposure of those who aren’t likely to snag those fans who are on the fence about your product? You have diehard fans like Chip, Two Sheds, myself and the like who care enough to stay on this site more than we probably should, enjoy the product half the time, and we still mostly watch. How many more people out there are like us who simply refuse to stick through the dumb shit to find the bits we enjoy?
> 
> Kingston, Pullman Jr, QT Marshall, and the like can be used in filer episodes. The show following a massive debut of The Icon, The IWC Indy Darling of Indy Darling running to another company with the World Title, etc is NOT the time to produce a single ounce of filler content. Now is the time to sink hooks into those fans who show up looking for Kobe Japanese steak (Sting), and you keep them around with your house sirloin (Cody, Omega, Page, Mox, Jericho, MJF, PAC, Miro).
> 
> With those new eyes invested over the next 2-3 weeks, you begin to present your Junior stars like Jungle Boy, Darby, and Sammy. Hell even begin introducing Cassidy and John Silver as the comedy undercard guy that they are.
> 
> But you do NOT put those guys who are not ready made stars on a show that is set to bring a LOT of eyes. They did that on the premiere episode with Sammy Guevara and the like, and they lost eyes quickly.


You do make a lot of good points that I agree with. Fallout shows are important, especially when you have a legend like Sting appearing. But weaker card shows have proven to be some of the best Dynamites in the past. I’m just more open to different promoters having different mindsets on how to follow up or present their shows. I don't consider Tony perfect but I do appreciate his initiative. He could be comfortable with the success he is having now and can be at a point where he just wants to showcase talent he believes in. You never know who will get over.

I just wouldn’t call it idiotic to put new talent in front of those people and take a chance when you know that you have 800K people with a high demo on cable that will come back regardless and a vaster audience that don’t have cable boxes. People don’t know who they will get invested in at the end of the day. A guy like OC for example who people here hate is very popular.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

prosperwithdeen said:


> A guy like OC for example who people here hate is very popular.


With the same audience that cheers on and supports Marko Stunt. Sting is a signing that is going to attract lapsed wrestling fans, they fucked it up on Dynamite Episode 1, they fucked it up on the Tyson debut episode, they just can't fuck it up a third time.

I'd be putting my absolute best foot forward.


----------



## Klitschko

prosperwithdeen said:


> With 90 minutes of TV time and a roster as vast as it is? In WWE yeah you can get away with it with their 7 hours of air time, but not AEW. They have to rotate. From what I can see most wrestling fans here just want the best of the best talent on their TV 100% of the time because for them it means maximum enjoyment. Fuck the rest of the roster right? Lol that’s elementary thinking and a subjective mindset that only aligns with personal interests.
> 
> But wrestling has never been that way. Tony is all about giving exposure to multiple talents. Older more established guys have to sit out every now and then. To this point, his strategy hasn’t been a problem so unless they start doing 500K overall with NXT type demos, then why not showcase the talent that you signed? Most of them are over in one way or the other. As I said earlier, the crowd was pissed about someone like John Silver getting thrown out of the battle Royal lol so if they’re invested In him then I’m sure it’s the same with the rest of the roster. The AEW audience is here to stay regardless. And they are pretty happy with what they got considering that wrestling is not in some kind of boom period along with the fact they know that probably 3/4 of their audience is streaming.


Good post prosper. Here is my take on it. You don't have to shove every new guy on there. A lot of them are just not top talent worthy. But take a look at this.

If they showcase this Team Tazz/Cody/Darby storyline each week than they are pushing 4 brand new unknown talented guys in Darby/Starks/Hobbs/Cage.

The inner Circle storyline showcases PNP/MJF/Wardlow/Sammy. All new unknown talents that have star potential.

If they showcase Omega/Moxley every week than they are showcasing Kenny Omega who is also kind of an unknown talent to the casual audience.

Than I would push this team Pac vs team Kingston storyline each week. Thats like 7 new wrestlers to showcase if you include Archer with them too.

The rest of the guys can rotate each week and you are still showcasing all of your top talent. At least thats how I see it.


----------



## DammitChrist

THANK GOD that Orange Cassidy will be featured prominently next week :banderas

He’s one of the most popular wrestlers on the AEW roster, and he’ll thankfully keep the viewers engaged throughout the show since he’s an entertaining character (regardless of what the vocal minority thinks about him with their opinions)


----------



## Alright_Mate

@bdon is spot on.

As I’ve said so many times myself, AEW have a core of top guys that need to be featured almost every week.

Featuring your better talent almost every week, could easily see AEW go from an average 700k to breaking 900k on a consistent basis.

As Bdon said, certain wrestlers like Pillman Jr, QT Marshall, I’ll add Best Friends, Hybrid 2, Private Party, Sabian, Janela to that list too, these guys won’t push the needle, these guys won’t get viewers sticking around, showcasing talent like this regularly is why they went on an average rating streak.

Next weeks card is typical AEW though, you get some main highlights here and there; however they spoil it by giving us average looking matches, that could so easily be put on Dark instead of Dynamite.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> THANK GOD that Orange Cassidy will be featured prominently next week :banderas
> 
> He’s one of the most popular wrestlers on the AEW roster, and he’ll thankfully keep the viewers engaged throughout the show since he’s an entertaining character (regardless of what the vocal minority thinks about him with their opinions)


Again, AEW has managed to attract traditional fans that were likely last watching in 2014 when Sting was in TNA or even as far back as 2001 when Sting was with WCW.

They see Orange Cassidy and they're done.


----------



## .christopher.

DammitChrist said:


> THANK GOD that Orange Cassidy will be featured prominently next week :banderas
> 
> He’s one of the most popular wrestlers on the AEW roster, and he’ll thankfully keep the viewers engaged throughout the show since he’s an entertaining character (regardless of what the vocal minority thinks about him with their opinions)


Except AEW have lost half their audience because of stuff like Orange Cassidy.

And why millions of other fans aren't giving AEW a chance.

The minority are the fans that like that stuff and, whilst featured in even the smallest of ways, will prevent AEW from growing their audience.


----------



## USAUSA1

Pippen94 said:


> The 18-34 male demo
> 
> 
> AEW - .29
> NXT - .04


The whole 18-34 male demo has been drill into fans head by Meltzer to justify AEW low ratings. First it was streaming cord cutting, than it was dvr, now its about 18-34 male demos because that what the industry only cares about. Then its other sports,the holidays,pandemic,election. I feel like we are getting too many excuses. 

The real truth is that wrestling is not popular, its not cool and it even losing HARDCORE viewers because the product of American television wrestling been the same format for 23 years. The same people are running wrestling. Look at wwe and aew personnel, same old people.


----------



## One Shed

.christopher. said:


> Except AEW have lost half their audience because of stuff like Orange Cassidy.
> 
> And why millions of other fans aren't giving AEW a chance.
> 
> The minority are the fans that like that stuff and, whilst featured in even the smallest of ways, will prevent AEW from growing their audience.


Exactly. People need to remember the vast majority of wrestling fans are not watching any current product. We have seen the survey and we know the reasons. This is not just a bunch of guess work.


----------



## DammitChrist

.christopher. said:


> Except AEW have lost half their audience because of stuff like Orange Cassidy.
> 
> And why millions of other fans aren't giving AEW a chance.
> 
> The minority are the fans that like that stuff and, whilst featured in even the smallest of ways, will prevent AEW from growing their audience.


Except that it’s completely ridiculous to pretend that one wrestler is “tanking” the ratings due to your laughable bias over the guy.

Cassidy is one of the most over guys on the roster, and there’s been multiple Dynamite episodes where he held up really well with the viewers (even though we were told that a character like him would “lure people away since he ranks ratings”). 

I’m sure that there will be plenty of wrestling fans who’ll enjoy seeing him on Dynamite next week. 

It’ll be an added bonus if he somehow manages to beat MJF too


----------



## Pippen94

USAUSA1 said:


> The whole 18-34 male demo has been drill into fans head by Meltzer to justify AEW low ratings. First it was streaming cord cutting, than it was dvr, now its about 18-34 male demos because that what the industry only cares about. Then its other sports,the holidays,pandemic,election. I feel like we are getting too many excuses.
> 
> The real truth is that wrestling is not popular, its not cool and it even losing HARDCORE viewers because the product of American television wrestling been the same format for 23 years. The same people are running wrestling. Look at wwe and aew personnel, same old people.


Tgr above demos are great for aew.
TV is dying - down 60% over last decade.


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> Exactly. People need to remember the vast majority of wrestling fans are not watching any current product. We have seen the survey and we know the reasons. This is not just a bunch of guess work.


If you're not watching wrestling you're not a wrestling fan


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> It’ll be an added bonus if he somehow manages to beat MJF too


So it'd be good if guy who wrestles with his hands in his pockets beats one of the few possible future stars. Might as well kill MJF as well, I hear Matt Hardy eliminated Hangman Page this week also.


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> If you're not watching wrestling you're not a wrestling fan


Did I cease to become a wrestling fan when I stopped watching because of Cena? If I hate the newer Star Wars movies, does that make me not a fan of Star Wars overall?


----------



## DammitChrist

LifeInCattleClass said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334632627094085639


Yep, thank you Tony Khan for having Kenny Omega win the AEW World title (as a heel now), for bringing back Sting for the passionate wrestling fans, for keeping Chris Jericho involved in an entertaining wrestling program, for featuring Cody Rhodes in the big spotlight to help out the TNT title scene (especially helping out Darby Allin by putting him over), AND for allowing Orange Cassidy to stay relevant for several months now due to his obvious popularity


----------



## Pippen94

Alright_Mate said:


> @bdon is spot on.
> 
> As I’ve said so many times myself, AEW have a core of top guys that need to be featured almost every week.
> 
> Featuring your better talent almost every week, could easily see AEW go from an average 700k to breaking 900k on a consistent basis.
> 
> As Bdon said, certain wrestlers like Pillman Jr, QT Marshall, I’ll add Best Friends, Hybrid 2, Private Party, Sabian, Janela to that list too, these guys won’t push the needle, these guys won’t get viewers sticking around, showcasing talent like this regularly is why they went on an average rating streak.
> 
> Next weeks card is typical AEW though, you get some main highlights here and there; however they spoil it by giving us average looking matches, that could so easily be put on Dark instead of Dynamite.


He is wrong - This is what he wants to do;
Depush act that gets minute to minute 1 million viewers more often than anybody else not to mention no.1 merch seller.
Also wants to limit dynamite to a few established acts - how is anybody else going to get over?? Who knows??
I can see why some here rate Dixie Carter - they suggest following tna


----------



## DammitChrist

Chip Chipperson said:


> So it'd be good if guy who wrestles with his hands in his pockets beats one of the few possible future stars. Might as well kill MJF as well, I hear Matt Hardy eliminated Hangman Page this week also.


Ricky Starks is the better version of MJF anyway


----------



## bdon

Klitschko said:


> Good post prosper. Here is my take on it. You don't have to shove every new guy on there. A lot of them are just not top talent worthy. But take a look at this.
> 
> If they showcase this Team Tazz/Cody/Darby storyline each week than they are pushing 4 brand new unknown talented guys in Darby/Starks/Hobbs/Cage.
> 
> The inner Circle storyline showcases PNP/MJF/Wardlow/Sammy. All new unknown talents that have star potential.
> 
> If they showcase Omega/Moxley every week than they are showcasing Kenny Omega who is also kind of an unknown talent to the casual audience.
> 
> Than I would push this team Pac vs team Kingston storyline each week. Thats like 7 new wrestlers to showcase if you include Archer with them too.
> 
> The rest of the guys can rotate each week and you are still showcasing all of your top talent. At least thats how I see it.


This is my point. Most people who are going to be tuning into next week’s show to see Sting do not know these guys, not even Moxley and Kenny Omega. You have to establish the current crop of stars to those fans, make them invest in Kenny, Mox, Cody, PAC, MJF, Page, and Darby. Get those fans invested enough that on a weekly basis, they will show up to see Kenny, Mox, Cody, PAC, MJF, Page, and Darby but are willing to “sit through” the Sammy Guevara, Jungle Boy, John Silver, Cassidy, Private Party, etc sprinkled in the middle where you are SLOWLY conditioning them to learn those characters while they are gaining emotional investment in those aforementioned characters.

This is common ways for writing stories and television. QT Marshall, Janela, Kiss, etc have their place in wrestling, but it is not on a weekly television show at the current time. They simply lack the depth of character and skill for such high profile moments as we are about to seen this Wednesday coming.


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> Did I cease to become a wrestling fan when I stopped watching because of Cena? If I hate the newer Star Wars movies, does that make me not a fan of Star Wars overall?


If you dont watch wrestling anymore you WERE a wrestling fan


----------



## bdon

Pippen94 said:


> He is wrong - This is what he wants to do;
> Depush act that gets minute to minute 1 million viewers more often than anybody else not to mention no.1 merch seller.
> Also wants to limit dynamite to a few established acts - how is anybody else going to get over?? Who knows??
> I can see why some here rate Dixie Carter - they suggest following tna


It isn’t at all what I want. Read what I wrote.


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> If you dont watch wrestling anymore you WERE a wrestling fan


If no current company is presenting a wrestling product you enjoy, which IS true for most wrestling fans, but they still enjoy watching the stuff they still enjoy, they ARE wrestling fans. They just do not like what is currently being presented as wrestling. Those fans are reachable.


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> It isn’t at all what I want. Read what I wrote.


Exactly what you said; push oc as midcard act. Limit number of performers on dynamite.

Wrestling is simple; if somebody gets over organically & naturally with audience you push them!! Fans love John Silver so run with it & see how far he can go. Cutting legs off talent who get over on own is what wcw & TNA did - it's what Vince does as his business is shrinking.

It's a bad plan to be placing ceiling on performers


----------



## Ozell Gray

rbl85 said:


> Sting appear on Q5 (so the start of the second hour) :
> 
> First 5min45 of this quarter is the tag match plus the attack.
> 
> 5min45 - 8min45 = time Sting is on the screen (3min)
> 
> Then 8min45 - 11min45 = commercials
> 
> 11min45 - 13min15 = announce table talking about what happened before the break.
> 
> 13min15 - 15min (end of Q5) : announcement of next week matches and 90% of Shida backstage interview.
> 
> The impact that Sting had (if he had one) was probably nullify by the 3min commercials right after his début (AEW always lose tons of viewers during the commercials)


Dude Sting is the guy who got them the attention they're getting now and they even got recognition from ESPN when Sting debuted. Anyway you want to look at it Sting got them the spotlight yesterday.


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Exactly what you said; push oc as midcard act. Limit number of performers on dynamite.
> 
> Wrestling is simple; if somebody gets over organically & naturally with audience you push them!! Fans love John Silver so run with it & see how far he can go. Cutting legs off talent who get over on own is what wcw & TNA did - it's what Vince does as his business is shrinking.
> 
> It's a bad plan to be placing ceiling on performers


Midcard is too high for Trashidy. I thought AEW had finally learned that but then they did the nonsense last night.

As far as Silver goes, he looks like his legs got cut off long ago.

People who look like your average audience member or worse are never going to grow the business.


----------



## rbl85

Ozell Gray said:


> Dude Sting is the guy who got them the attention they're getting now and they even got recognition from ESPN when Sting debuted. Anyway you want to look at it *Sting got them the spotlight yesterday.*


Nobody is denying that but since nobody expected is appearance tonight, a lot of people only knew he appeared after his segments was over.

I can assure you that if last week you put some hints that Sting might appear this week the show does more than 1M


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> If no current company is presenting a wrestling product you enjoy, which IS true for most wrestling fans, but they still enjoy watching the stuff they still enjoy, they ARE wrestling fans. They just do not like what is currently being presented as wrestling. Those fans are reachable.


I don't know about - look at nwa & their lack support. Once fans go maybe most don't comeback. Anyway, better to focus on young viewers for economic reasons


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> I don't know about - look at nwa & their lack support. Once fans go maybe most don't comeback. Anyway, better to focus on young viewers for economic reasons


I think we have to take that survey seriously though. The NWA today and honestly for decades has been mostly an underfunded joke. The lapsed fans have given us the reasons they have not come back and some on here have laughed those reasons off because a smaller amount of people like goofy stuff. It is just weird to me. I am curious what universe exists where YOUNG people have more money than older people though. I get it that everyone cares about 18-49 year olds but that is a large swath. I am in the group and I assume you are as well. My purchasing power at 18 was a lot different than today. I think you can get lapsed fans back AND get new, young fans. I really believe that and my evidence is all the boom periods in wrestling history. Give people a reason to care, and they will. Give them a bunch of tiny guys jacking each other off, and people will roll their eyes and move on to something else.


----------



## Pippen94

So close to raw;

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334663027417866240


----------



## Buhalovski

Pippen94 said:


> If you're not watching wrestling you're not a wrestling fan


Lots of funny stuff going on in this section but thats the dumbest thing I've ever heard for sure.


----------



## Shleppy

I hope Sting can bring back some more lapsed wrestling fans and they can start breaking 1 million

If AEW is going to be a real player they will need over 1 million viewers each week on a regular basis


----------



## Klitschko

All rating talk aside for a moment, seeing Sting show up brought me back memories of when he first showed up in TNA and how excited I was and what big hopes I had for the company. It really was a great moment.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Are we all going to pretend that demographic is the most important thing when Reddit's census kind of proves that a majority of wrestling fans are broke, live at home with their parents/family (Or alone) and have very little disposable income?

Also, the argument that you're not a wrestling fan unless you're watching modern wrestling regularly is ridiculous. Do people stop being fans of movies if they prefer the classics?


----------



## Klitschko

Chip Chipperson said:


> Are we all going to pretend that demographic is the most important thing when Reddit's census kind of proves that a majority of wrestling fans are broke, live at home with their parents/family (Or alone) and have very little disposable income?


wasn't it like 15 percent live at home with family? Maybe I'm thinking of a different one.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Klitschko said:


> wasn't it like 15 percent live at home with family? Maybe I'm thinking of a different one.


So, this year they refused to count anyone under the age of 25 I believe but the demo is 18-49 so I'm using the 2019 stats to answer your question.

Percent living at home with parents: 31%

Percent living alone: 16.9%

Percent living with roommates: 16.1%

Whopping 64% living in undesirable living conditions (For an advertiser). 47.1% who aren't able or wanting to fully provide for themselves either.

---

Individual income level:

42.4% made 15,000 a year or less.

26.3% made between 15,001 and 35,000

16.3% made between $35,001 - $55,000

Just 8% made between $55,001 - $75,000

---

The census also shows that these guys don't really pay for wrestling stuff instead choosing to pirate it. Just 23.5% paid for a PPV in 2019.

Here is the link for those interested:


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/bmsrui

---

Pretty much shows that the majority of this 18-49 demographic is broke, can't entirely support themselves and won't even spend money on wrestling let alone other products.

Before anyone gets on me for criticising wrestling fans, I'm not and I'm one of you.


----------



## Klitschko

Wow. The living at home or with family part didn't strike me that hard, but the fact that a lot of people are struggling financially like that. I wasn't expecting that. I know we all butt heads sometimes with each other, but if anyone here is struggling and reading this, i hope your situation gets better.


----------



## One Shed

Klitschko said:


> Wow. The living at home or with family part didn't strike me that hard, but the fact that a lot of people are struggling financially like that. I wasn't expecting that. I know we all butt heads sometimes with each other, but if anyone here is struggling and reading this, i hope your situation gets better.


It is honestly weird to know that people over 18 actually live with their parents. I kind of need them to have a special image next to their name so I know who has never been in the real world.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Chip chipperson trying to make everyone miserable again I see.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Danielallen1410 said:


> Chip chipperson trying to make everyone miserable again I see.


You're not allowed to make these attacks in this thread or even on this forum anymore. I am simply pointing out why the 18-49 demo might not be lucrative to advertisers. My post is pertinent to this thread, yours is not.


----------



## famicommander

Reddit boards are not an accurate representation of the general wrestling fanbase and there's a reason the 18-34 and 18-49 demographics are the ones that everybody caters to. Advertisers know their own business better than a freaking Reddit survey. 

That survey is absurd just looking at it. It has the viewership for NJPW on AXS and Lucha Underground as being higher than ROH and Impact, and we know beyond any doubt Lucha Underground averaged less than 200,000 views. 

You cannot seriously believe that PWG, which only distributed shows on iPPV and DVD at the time, was pulling more viewers than ROH. This was when Bullet Club was regularly appearing on ROH TV.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> So, this year they refused to count anyone under the age of 25 I believe but the demo is 18-49 so I'm using the 2019 stats to answer your question.
> 
> Percent living at home with parents: 31%
> 
> Percent living alone: 16.9%
> 
> Percent living with roommates: 16.1%
> 
> Whopping 64% living in undesirable living conditions (For an advertiser). 47.1% who aren't able or wanting to fully provide for themselves either.
> 
> ---
> 
> Individual income level:
> 
> 42.4% made 15,000 a year or less.
> 
> 26.3% made between 15,001 and 35,000
> 
> 16.3% made between $35,001 - $55,000
> 
> Just 8% made between $55,001 - $75,000
> 
> ---
> 
> The census also shows that these guys don't really pay for wrestling stuff instead choosing to pirate it. Just 23.5% paid for a PPV in 2019.
> 
> Here is the link for those interested:
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/bmsrui
> 
> ---
> 
> Pretty much shows that the majority of this 18-49 demographic is broke, can't entirely support themselves and won't even spend money on wrestling let alone other products.
> 
> Before anyone gets on me for criticising wrestling fans, I'm not and I'm one of you.


wait.... are you trying to say low income people or younger people living at home with their parents after 20 has less or no value to advertisers










lol - not a marketing exec, are you Chipper?

(and no, that is not a personal attack as you’ve gotten so fond of saying currently - merely an observation based on the facts presented)


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> wait.... are you trying to say low income people or younger people living at home with their parents after 20 has less or no value to advertisers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol - not a marketing exec, are you Chipper?
> 
> (and no, that is not a personal attack as you’ve gotten so fond of saying currently - merely an observation based on the facts presented)


Didn't take it as a personal attack, No, I'm not a marketing exec but I have more experience marketing to wrestling fans than anyone else on this forum and I'm still young enough to know many people 25 and under.

Hardcore wrestling fans in my experience are generally quite cheap and are low middle class to broke. They traditionally like to come out to the wrestling shows because it's a pretty cheap night out. For their 15 dollars they get 2 hours of entertainment plus they can meet their favourite local wrestlers, take some photos for social media and be involved in something. Throw in a few beers and petrol to the venue and it's probably under a 40 dollar night.

AEW is known for being smark heaven but I'll give comparison to casual wrestling fans aka families. The families will come in and due to having dual incomes they're happy to spend a little more. They'll buy a mask, they'll potentially spend money on a photo in the wrestling ring, they'll buy a shirt if they're regular fans, they might even pay for the ringside upgrade.

I'll give you an example, there was a show here two years ago aimed at smart marks, the promoter went big and asked for $100.00 a ticket for a card featuring Ryback (Relatively fresh off WWE TV), Christopher Daniels, T-Hawk, CIMA, El Lindaman, Suicide from Impact, Jay Lethal (Didn't end up coming) and some really good local talent. People balked at the hundred dollar ticket saying it was entirely too much money whilst fans of say heavy metal would have no problem dropping a hundred bucks for a couple of major bands and some solid/good international bands. Wrestling fans are cheap, that promoter didn't draw (Legit under 50 most legs of the tour)

So, to put this onto AEW, yes certain products could be marketed towards their audience for example if I had a T-Shirt business where I sold amusing T-Shirts that appealed to that demographic and those shirts were 15-20 bucks a pop I'd be all in, if I had a second hand goods site that could get students cheap electronics I'd advertise on AEW, Fast Food? Yes. Second hand students book website? Yes.

Is any major brand (Which people kind of imply is going to eventually happen with AEW if it keeps this demo high) really going to invest millions into an ad campaign to try and attract a 21 year old smart mark wrestling fan that makes 11,000 dollars a year and lives at home with mum? No.

That's the only point I'm trying to make, happy to have a conversation about it because it's interesting. Maybe I'm wrong.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> wait.... are you trying to say low income people or younger people living at home with their parents after 20 has less or no value to advertisers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol - not a marketing exec, are you Chipper?
> 
> (and no, that is not a personal attack as you’ve gotten so fond of saying currently - merely an observation based on the facts presented)


The whole argument that “ThEy LiVe WiTh ThEir PaReNts” is so fucking stupid to be honest. What it shows is someone who’s going to manipulate the results to fit their view. 

Let’s be honest. There is no strong correlation between someone’s living arrangements and what they are purchasing. Living costs are going up. It’s not the 90s anymore where you can move out comfortably at the age of 18 and buy a house for like 20k. I mean let’s take the most recent console drops. How old do you think these gamers are? I can assure you 95% of them are under 30. And those consoles weren’t exactly cheap. And you could argue that those who are still living with their parents are the ones who are spending their money a little too much on material things. Therefore they are ripe for the picking for advertisers. 

Such a stupid argument that it’s not even worth debating.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Optikk is All Elite said:


> The whole argument that “ThEy LiVe WiTh ThEir PaReNts” is so fucking stupid to be honest. What it shows is someone who’s going to manipulate the results to fit their view.
> 
> Let’s be honest. There is no strong correlation between someone’s living arrangements and what they are purchasing. Living costs are going up. It’s not the 90s anymore where you can move out comfortably at the age of 18 and buy a house for like 20k. I mean let’s take the most recent console drops. How old do you think these gamers are? I can assure you 95% of them are under 30. And those consoles weren’t exactly cheap. And you could argue that those who are still living with their parents are the ones who are spending their money a little too much on material things. Therefore they are ripe for the picking for advertisers.
> 
> Such a stupid argument that it’s not even worth debating.


How am I manipulating anything mate? It's there in black and white, the largest wrestling forum on the planet is saying 47.1% of wrestling fans are reliant on either their parents or a roommate to share living expenses with and that 68.7% make under the United States national average when it comes to their finances.

I've also given you insight into my own customers, these are wrestling fans I know, they don't have a lot of money and don't care to spend a lot of money even on wrestling.

95% of the people who bought the latest console are under 30? Where'd you pull that number from? The people living at home with their parents are likely on social security or if in the United States working a minimum wage job to desperately pay off schooling or other bills. They'd probably love to move but can't afford to. I love this new argument of "Nah man, people stay at home because they care about material things not because they're broke or trying to build savings".

It's a stupid argument not worth debating because it doesn't fit the narrative people (Including Meltzer) want it to. If it said all hardcore wrestling fans are super wealthy and live in penthouses with beautiful women everyone would be like "Aw fuck yeah, census is awesome!"


----------



## Pippen94

18-34 tells you the future, 35-49 tells you the present; 50+ tells you the past


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> 18-34 tells you the future, 35-49 tells you the present; 50+ tells you the past


Now if you want to make this argument that's totally reasonable and makes sense but lets not pretend marketers are just lining up and getting ready to drop tens of millions to attract the ever lucrative AEW fans.


----------



## Randy Lahey

0.42 is an outstanding demo. And that’s with competition from another wrestling show. Raw is averaging 0.52 demo with no competing show. 

Look what TNT is paying for AEW vs what USA pays for Raw.

Biggest winner here is TNT. Biggest loser is Vince McMahon. USA next TV deal is going to compare what TNT is paying for AEW and bid Raw way down. This is why Vince did everything he could do to make AEW fail. He knows if they provide competing content for a far lower price that will drastically lower his own future deals.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Randy Lahey said:


> 0.42 is an outstanding demo. And that’s with competition from another wrestling show. Raw is averaging 0.52 demo with no competing show.
> 
> Look what TNT is paying for AEW vs what USA pays for Raw.
> 
> Biggest winner here is TNT. Biggest loser is Vince McMahon. USA next TV deal is going to compare what TNT is paying for AEW and bid Raw way down. This is why Vince did everything he could do to make AEW fail. He knows if they provide competing content for a far lower price that will drastically lower his own future deals.


WWE is a proven commodity, if you are a television network you are paying for a product that you know will most likely never disappear and has a built in fan base of 2 million and potentially many many more millions. You are getting into bed with a product that can have the biggest movie star in the world turn up on your network if they want to. You are also in bed with a world class staff that knows everything there is to know about the professional wrestling business. They've been beaten just once since Vince McMahon Jr took over the company and it was for only approximately a year and a half.

AEW is new on the scene, unproven, has very little pull in terms of mainstream attention but admittedly does have a built in fan base of about 750,000 people. You are working with an inexperienced staff that doesn't really know what they're doing (But is trying to learn) and they've never beaten anyone at anything yet unless you count barely beating NXT every week despite having 5 times the salary budget. AEW is likely to lose 2 of it's 3 biggest stars (Jericho and Sting) when the Dynamite/TNT contract expires.

USA may try and bid RAW down but you know what Vince will do? Laugh. And then he'll go sell it to another network who is happy to have the biggest wrestling company that the world has ever seen on their network.


----------



## The Wood

What percentage of AEW fans are black? Which are gay? What percentage have money to spend? Which are educated? Hell, what percentage have lost their virginity?

There is _way_ more to advertising than a gentrified age group. Chip is right on the money. AEW fans are actually the ones twisting. Nuance is only desirable when it says something good about AEW.

Have a look at the advertisers AEW actually attracts. The evidence is in there.

18-49 is archaic. It’s how people measured things in the 90’s. Then we realised that other things are valuable too. Also, the older people probably have more disposable income now.

Being too poor to afford a house doesn’t mean you can buy Nike shoes and Armani suits.


----------



## Bubbly

Klitschko said:


> 913k for AEW. Can't wait for the breakdown of this.


when do we get the breakdown?


----------



## CM Buck

keep it general @Optikk is All Elite I agree with the content of your post. Just keep it general


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Didn't take it as a personal attack, No, I'm not a marketing exec but I have more experience marketing to wrestling fans than anyone else on this forum and I'm still young enough to know many people 25 and under.
> 
> Hardcore wrestling fans in my experience are generally quite cheap and are low middle class to broke. They traditionally like to come out to the wrestling shows because it's a pretty cheap night out. For their 15 dollars they get 2 hours of entertainment plus they can meet their favourite local wrestlers, take some photos for social media and be involved in something. Throw in a few beers and petrol to the venue and it's probably under a 40 dollar night.
> 
> AEW is known for being smark heaven but I'll give comparison to casual wrestling fans aka families. The families will come in and due to having dual incomes they're happy to spend a little more. They'll buy a mask, they'll potentially spend money on a photo in the wrestling ring, they'll buy a shirt if they're regular fans, they might even pay for the ringside upgrade.
> 
> I'll give you an example, there was a show here two years ago aimed at smart marks, the promoter went big and asked for $100.00 a ticket for a card featuring Ryback (Relatively fresh off WWE TV), Christopher Daniels, T-Hawk, CIMA, El Lindaman, Suicide from Impact, Jay Lethal (Didn't end up coming) and some really good local talent. People balked at the hundred dollar ticket saying it was entirely too much money whilst fans of say heavy metal would have no problem dropping a hundred bucks for a couple of major bands and some solid/good international bands. Wrestling fans are cheap, that promoter didn't draw (Legit under 50 most legs of the tour)
> 
> So, to put this onto AEW, yes certain products could be marketed towards their audience for example if I had a T-Shirt business where I sold amusing T-Shirts that appealed to that demographic and those shirts were 15-20 bucks a pop I'd be all in, if I had a second hand goods site that could get students cheap electronics I'd advertise on AEW, Fast Food? Yes. Second hand students book website? Yes.
> 
> Is any major brand (Which people kind of imply is going to eventually happen with AEW if it keeps this demo high) really going to invest millions into an ad campaign to try and attract a 21 year old smart mark wrestling fan that makes 11,000 dollars a year and lives at home with mum? No.
> 
> That's the only point I'm trying to make, happy to have a conversation about it because it's interesting. Maybe I'm wrong.


dude, you have never marketed a piece of soap to a wrestling fan, or a homeloan, or a clothing line - or even more relevant, digital services, debt reconciliation, phones

The relevancy of your experience is as a wrestling promoter is non-existent here. You might have experience selling a wrestling ticket and some merch at the gate, but that is where it stops.

low-income to middle-low income households is some of the best markets to target with FMCG and also has a massive sphere of influence - because that is where trends originate. Creativity‘s birthplace in music, fashion and trends almost always starts from a ‘lack of having’

its also the best place for loans, credit cards, insurance etc

yes, you won’t see BMW or Merc ads on AEW - but never make the mistake of thinking those are the biggest budgets. They all pay the same rate card price for the ad space in that spot too - so, it doesn’t matter if its ‘Nike’ or ‘low income insurance’ - the money the ad makes is the same

the demo is literally.... very literally everything - because it is representative of the sphere of influence and can be extrapolated to all media.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Now if you want to make this argument that's totally reasonable and makes sense but lets not pretend marketers are just lining up and getting ready to drop tens of millions to attract the ever lucrative AEW fans.


of course they are - as they are with any spot that draws well in that demo - they don’t care about the program

i used to buy 3000 - 4000 tv ads a month - i would have a big sheet of programs the one side, demo and timeslot in the next two columns, and rate card pricing per slot

then i had my results per ad and my ROI and PNL - to see what worked best

i never cared where the ads landed over and above the key data - if i was making a return or if i was getting a foothold

most big marketers work like that, because the secret is - there is not enough quality spots to do mass ads to, so to get any sort of relevant campaign going, you have to put it as wide as possible

which is why you sometimes see insurance ads during cartoons - it doesn’t fit, but it kinda sorta hit the demo, and the price was right, and enough adults watched with their kids to make the ROI ok-ish

its really a different world mate - you lads have thrown this ‘what is the audience really worth’ thing around a couple of times now - and i’m telling you, you guys are grossly misunderstanding the scenario


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ps> to note, when i was doing tv ads

Smackdown was my best performing slot by far

Raw was more expensive, and yielded less conversions - but was profitable - maybe 5th on my list

and nxt was broadcasted on a saturday and was nice and cheap - great ROI, but low results because of low viewerships

that is just anecdotal for those who care

and also, this was in South Africa, 2007 - 2011 / not sure what the results will be today


----------



## rbl85

Randy Lahey said:


> 0.42 is an outstanding demo. And that’s with competition from another wrestling show. Raw is averaging 0.52 demo with no competing show.
> 
> Look what TNT is paying for AEW vs what USA pays for Raw.
> 
> Biggest winner here is TNT. Biggest loser is Vince McMahon. USA next TV deal is going to compare what TNT is paying for AEW and bid Raw way down. This is why Vince did everything he could do to make AEW fail. He knows if they provide competing content for a far lower price that will drastically lower his own future deals.


Actually i'm quite sure there was report that the nect deal for RAW was going to be higher than the current one


----------



## Wolf Mark

Shleppy said:


> I hope Sting can bring back some more lapsed wrestling fans and they can start breaking 1 million
> 
> If AEW is going to be a real player they will need over 1 million viewers each week on a regular basis


Would be ironic as Sting going to TNA gave them their first 1 Million(it was ratings back then instead of viewers but still).


----------



## The Wood

The AEW apologists get salty when confronted with logic. Stop breaking the rules just because you don’t like what the poster is saying.

If you want to know how advertisers see wrestling fans, watch Ready to Rumble. Check out AEW’s actual advertisements and see for yourselves.


----------



## Jaxon

quick question, if the AEW demo is the younger people, why do people think Sting will get 1m. Surly he was before there time?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Jaxon said:


> quick question, if the AEW demo is the younger people, why do people think Sting will get 1m. Surly he was before there time?


younger people are 34 and under in this case

they would’ve been 5 -12 during Stings’ WCW days

prime nostalgia fuel, and nostalgia sells like nothing else


----------



## Jaxon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> younger people are 34 and under in this case
> 
> they would’ve been 5 -12 during Stings’ WCW days
> 
> prime nostalgia fuel, and nostalgia sells like nothing else


thanks for that, I do not understand the demo ratings and stuff


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Jaxon said:


> thanks for that, I do not understand the demo ratings and stuff


no stress - it is confusing

think about it like this - the overall number is a calculation that they estimate.

in 35,000 peoples homes, they have a box that measures what they watch. These people are as close a ’representation’ of the American populace as they can get. X% white, X% african american, X% middle class, X% single moms and so on and so on.

they then measure what these people watch on any given night and do what they call a ‘universe’ calculation which says - ‘if X amount of people who has our box watched NCIS, and the total viewing of the night in America is ABC, then it stands to reason that the overall figures of people who watched a show is XYZ’ - which is why the overall number ends up being a thumb-suck. Because you cannot prove it

its an educated thumbsuck - but it still is one - you are trying to say the 35k people represents and watches what the whole of the USA is _likely_ to watch on any given night

now, when we get to demo’s though, it gets interesting. They know for a fact in the households with the boxes, there is 25% people under 34 and 25% kids and 25% older than 64 for example

so, they can much more accurately determine “from The 35k confirmed boxes, we know of the total watchers we measure, 0.42 in 18 - 34 watched NCIS”

and with that certainty, a marketer can go - ‘ok, i know i want to reach specifically this audience and therefore i want to market on NCIS, because if 25% of 18-34 watched NCIS for sure in 35k households, the chances are greater that this same program appeals to the same audience in the whole of the usa’ (still a thumbsuck, of course - but a more focused one, trends are a thing) - so, you extrapolate your data / and you even copy that into other avenues - you target the same age in facebook for instance

and then you layer over income potential, conversion potential and what you are trying to market - getting younger people into your brand, or getting newly married people to take a homeloan etc etc - and you market according to the demo you want to reach

9 times out of 10 - the 18 - 50 is the ‘money‘ demo. People in the prime stage of their life to consume products of various degrees and prices

if you were the marketing Manager of a life insurer though, or a multivitamin - you would avoid these expensive slots, and go for a 50+ audience

also important to note, media buyers get a LOT more info on the audiences than we do - we get 5% of the data maybe


pps> this is also why online ads are taking over. I can target exactly who i want - none of this ‘they might be who i want’ BS

ppps> this is why magazine ads are dying, they are worse than tv. They have a ‘pass-on’ rate figure. ‘We print 50k magazines, but 250k people read it because it is ‘passed on’ between family members’

lol - complete and utter BS. Neither tv or magazines can even track what the different eyeballs are doing on 3 tv sets in one home or between 3 family members


----------



## The Wood

Jaxon said:


> quick question, if the AEW demo is the younger people, why do people think Sting will get 1m. Surly he was before there time?


Honestly, they’ll take what they can get. A lot of fans do remember Sting, but that is also a turn-off. A lot of younger fans are too young to know that Sting wasn’t a big draw. Plus, they are probably going after the over 35 crowd too.

But mainly it’s because he became available and they will sign anyone for a stint. Shawn Spears and Dr. Luther have jobs.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Can’t believe they hit a .42. I’m sure it will go back down into the 30s but holy smokes. TNT has to be giddy.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

VIP86 said:


> why the fuck is Tony Khan tweeting about NXT?
> why the president of a company is mentioning his main competitor on his twitter?
> what a fucking dumbass thing to do


probably because the other company ran him over with a tank on tv


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Didn't take it as a personal attack, No, I'm not a marketing exec but I have more experience marketing to wrestling fans than anyone else on this forum and I'm still young enough to know many people 25 and under.
> 
> Hardcore wrestling fans in my experience are generally quite cheap and are low middle class to broke. They traditionally like to come out to the wrestling shows because it's a pretty cheap night out. For their 15 dollars they get 2 hours of entertainment plus they can meet their favourite local wrestlers, take some photos for social media and be involved in something. Throw in a few beers and petrol to the venue and it's probably under a 40 dollar night.
> 
> AEW is known for being smark heaven but I'll give comparison to casual wrestling fans aka families. The families will come in and due to having dual incomes they're happy to spend a little more. They'll buy a mask, they'll potentially spend money on a photo in the wrestling ring, they'll buy a shirt if they're regular fans, they might even pay for the ringside upgrade.
> 
> I'll give you an example, there was a show here two years ago aimed at smart marks, the promoter went big and asked for $100.00 a ticket for a card featuring Ryback (Relatively fresh off WWE TV), Christopher Daniels, T-Hawk, CIMA, El Lindaman, Suicide from Impact, Jay Lethal (Didn't end up coming) and some really good local talent. People balked at the hundred dollar ticket saying it was entirely too much money whilst fans of say heavy metal would have no problem dropping a hundred bucks for a couple of major bands and some solid/good international bands. Wrestling fans are cheap, that promoter didn't draw (Legit under 50 most legs of the tour)
> 
> So, to put this onto AEW, yes certain products could be marketed towards their audience for example if I had a T-Shirt business where I sold amusing T-Shirts that appealed to that demographic and those shirts were 15-20 bucks a pop I'd be all in, if I had a second hand goods site that could get students cheap electronics I'd advertise on AEW, Fast Food? Yes. Second hand students book website? Yes.
> 
> Is any major brand (Which people kind of imply is going to eventually happen with AEW if it keeps this demo high) really going to invest millions into an ad campaign to try and attract a 21 year old smart mark wrestling fan that makes 11,000 dollars a year and lives at home with mum? No.
> 
> That's the only point I'm trying to make, happy to have a conversation about it because it's interesting. Maybe I'm wrong.


Fair points that are only offered as PART of the discussion, but it will absolutely be ignored or scoffed at.


The Wood said:


> Honestly, they’ll take what they can get. A lot of fans do remember Sting, but that is also a turn-off. A lot of younger fans are too young to know that Sting wasn’t a big draw. Plus, they are probably going after the over 35 crowd too.
> 
> But mainly it’s because he became available and they will sign anyone for a stint. Shawn Spears and Dr. Luther have jobs.


Sting’s debut video was trending #5 for all of YouTube.


----------



## 3venflow

Some more details:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334816810059776001

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334813875724664833

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334822640914034691


----------



## LongPig666

LifeInCattleClass said:


> If Impact beats NXT in the ratings next week I am going to shit my pants laughing


I shouldn't laugh as well because I feel bad for NXT regardless of what it does against Impact. NXT deserves better than just existing as a stone in the shoe to new competition on Wednesday's. Both AEW and NXT (I don't watch it now but used to) are great, fresh wrestling shows that I think are making the wrestling world better.


----------



## Ozell Gray

3venflow said:


> Some more details:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334816810059776001
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334813875724664833
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334822640914034691



This is just some random guy on Twitter. Have you looked at that guy’s account? You really should because the stuff this guy is tweeting are outlandish.


----------



## Ozell Gray

The demo in of itself isn’t important when it comes to wrestling, because most fans are pooor and it’s already been established that most advertisers want nothing to do with it so to hang your hat on “demos” is very short sighted thinking. Dynamite even with a better demo numbers still gets lower ads than NXT because its tv-14 on top of its wrestling. NXT has the benefit of being tv-pg which is one of the reasons why Fox wanted it and is one of the reasons Fox got SmackDown because its easier to sale ads for WWE’s shows with them being pg than it is to sale ads for a show that’s tv-14.

This “demo” crap only got spun and talked about because Meltzer is trying to prop up AEW.


----------



## bdon

If demo was everything, then why is the NBA money so much more than wrestling? Why was TNT willing to sell WCW to Vince McMahon for so damn cheap?

Wrestling holds a stigma to companies. Vince has damn near cracked into that mainstream acceptance, but he’s still not making NBA money. Go listen to Konnan discuss how the WCW guys felt shafted by their contracts compared to NBA money, despite beating the NBA in ratings. And this was prior to the NBA TV contracts going crazy with ESPN.


----------



## 3venflow

Ozell Gray said:


> This “demo” crap only got spun and talked about because Meltzer is trying to prop up AEW.


Tony Khan himself has talked about the importance of the key demographics and he is the guy whose opinions of AEW's ratings matter most.

To quote a wrestling business researcher (link below): "It seems the importance of the P18-49 demographic above the total audience is particularly important to AEW’s broadcaster TNT and the network’s parent company WarnerMedia.

It’s not clear WWE NXT and Raw broadcaster USA Network takes the same approach with advertisers and thus values the P18-49 to the degree TNT does. Some USA Network press releases celebrate both P18-49 and P25-54 performance, although it’s not like NXT is beating AEW in the latter demographic either."

Industry sources sort by the 18-49 demo, not total viewership, by default due to its importance.

Dismissing it is folly but not surprising given your firm anti-AEW stance. 🤷‍♂️









Key demo and total audience: What are they and how much do they matter? - Wrestlenomics


The metrics we’ve followed throughout the last few decades of wrestling television history have changed. In the “Monday Night War” era, amid the competition ultimately won by WWF …




wrestlenomics.com


----------



## RapShepard

prosperwithdeen said:


> With 90 minutes of TV time and a roster as vast as it is? In WWE yeah you can get away with it with their 7 hours of air time, but not AEW. They have to rotate. From what I can see most wrestling fans here just want the best of the best talent on their TV 100% of the time because for them it means maximum enjoyment. Fuck the rest of the roster right? Lol that’s elementary thinking and a subjective mindset that only aligns with personal interests.


They wouldn't need to rotate feuds weekly if they just formatted the show properly. WCW and WWE had much bigger rosters during the MNW and still managed to get the biggest stars and undercard feuds on every show.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> They wouldn't need to rotate feuds weekly if they just formatted the show properly. WCW and WWE had much bigger rosters during the MNW and still managed to get the biggest stars and undercard feuds on every show.


Nitro had 3 hours. Wwe roster in 1997 - 98 would've been same size as aew


----------



## Pippen94

Ozell Gray said:


> The demo in of itself isn’t important when it comes to wrestling, because most fans are pooor and it’s already been established that most advertisers want nothing to do with it so to hang your hat on “demos” is very short sighted thinking. Dynamite even with a better demo numbers still gets lower ads than NXT because its tv-14 on top of its wrestling. NXT has the benefit of being tv-pg which is one of the reasons why Fox wanted it and is one of the reasons Fox got SmackDown because its easier to sale ads for WWE’s shows with them being pg than it is to sale ads for a show that’s tv-14.
> 
> This “demo” crap only got spun and talked about because Meltzer is trying to prop up AEW.


So norms & rules of TV don't apply to wrestling but just everything else - sure


----------



## Pippen94

Ozell Gray said:


> This is just some random guy on Twitter. Have you looked at that guy’s account? You really should because the stuff this guy is tweeting are outlandish.


He's just posting actual numbers. Please post numbers you think are "correct" otherwise


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Nitro had 3 hours. Wwe roster in 1997 - 98 would've been same size as aew


Nitro didn't go 3 hours until 98, so both shows showed you can use a big roster weekly and get it over. They need better time management


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> You're not allowed to make these attacks in this thread or even on this forum anymore. I am simply pointing out why the 18-49 demo might not be lucrative to advertisers. My post is pertinent to this thread, yours is not.


Funny TV willing to pay so much for wrestling then??


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

bdon said:


> If demo was everything, then why is the NBA money so much more than wrestling? Why was TNT willing to sell WCW to Vince McMahon for so damn cheap?


NBA and major sports have prestige, networks will always pay more for that than Wrestling, and by a substantial margin.

TNT sold WCW 20 years ago, the Television landscape was way different, back then the most important number was the household rating(a rating in which NXT comfortably beats AEW every week in now mind you), but using that mindset and applying it to 2020 television is dumb.

Use the metrics that matter in 2020 television to judge 2020 television.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> Nitro didn't go 3 hours until 98, so both shows showed you can use a big roster weekly and get it over. They need better time management


Did they?? In wrestling some acts get over others don't. It was true back then. Wcw was booked on fly - I wouldn't think much of their "time management" whatever you mean by that


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> dude, you have never marketed a piece of soap to a wrestling fan, or a homeloan, or a clothing line - or even more relevant, digital services, debt reconciliation, phones
> 
> The relevancy of your experience is as a wrestling promoter is non-existent here. You might have experience selling a wrestling ticket and some merch at the gate, but that is where it stops.
> 
> low-income to middle-low income households is some of the best markets to target with FMCG and also has a massive sphere of influence - because that is where trends originate. Creativity‘s birthplace in music, fashion and trends almost always starts from a ‘lack of having’
> 
> its also the best place for loans, credit cards, insurance etc
> 
> yes, you won’t see BMW or Merc ads on AEW - but never make the mistake of thinking those are the biggest budgets. They all pay the same rate card price for the ad space in that spot too - so, it doesn’t matter if its ‘Nike’ or ‘low income insurance’ - the money the ad makes is the same
> 
> the demo is literally.... very literally everything - because it is representative of the sphere of influence and can be extrapolated to all media.





LifeInCattleClass said:


> of course they are - as they are with any spot that draws well in that demo - they don’t care about the program
> 
> i used to buy 3000 - 4000 tv ads a month - i would have a big sheet of programs the one side, demo and timeslot in the next two columns, and rate card pricing per slot
> 
> then i had my results per ad and my ROI and PNL - to see what worked best
> 
> i never cared where the ads landed over and above the key data - if i was making a return or if i was getting a foothold
> 
> most big marketers work like that, because the secret is - there is not enough quality spots to do mass ads to, so to get any sort of relevant campaign going, you have to put it as wide as possible
> 
> which is why you sometimes see insurance ads during cartoons - it doesn’t fit, but it kinda sorta hit the demo, and the price was right, and enough adults watched with their kids to make the ROI ok-ish
> 
> its really a different world mate - you lads have thrown this ‘what is the audience really worth’ thing around a couple of times now - and i’m telling you, you guys are grossly misunderstanding the scenario


Wow - somebody who actually has worked in TV industry commenting in this section. I bet nobody here challenges your points.


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Did they?? In wrestling some acts get over others don't. It was true back then. Wcw was booked on fly - I wouldn't think much of their "time management" whatever you mean by that


It could be true now if they managed time better. Book the show in a way that every week all the fan favorite characters and angles get time. Imagine not getting the nWo on TV in 97 because Psicosis vs Juventus Guerrera and Harlem Heat vs The Nasty Boys needed more match time


----------



## One Shed

RapShepard said:


> It could be true now if they managed time better. Book the show in a way that every week all the fan favorite characters and angles get time. Imagine not getting the nWo on TV in 97 because Psicosis vs Juventus Guerrera and Harlem Heat vs The Nasty Boys needed more match time


The shorter match times back then for sure helped get more people featured and built a desire to see the real match on the PPV.


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> If demo was everything, then why is the NBA money so much more than wrestling? Why was TNT willing to sell WCW to Vince McMahon for so damn cheap?
> 
> Wrestling holds a stigma to companies. Vince has damn near cracked into that mainstream acceptance, but he’s still not making NBA money. Go listen to Konnan discuss how the WCW guys felt shafted by their contracts compared to NBA money, despite beating the NBA in ratings. And this was prior to the NBA TV contracts going crazy with ESPN.


Wwe making more money at this time than any point in its history. Aew was created on premise it could generate big TV rights deal & already secured contract. Every projection suggests both companies will see rights increase next go around particularly with streaming coming into mix. Talking today's world companies seem to want to spend a lot for wrestling - appears stigma doesn't exist anymore


----------



## Pentagon Senior

RapShepard said:


> It could be true now if they managed time better. Book the show in a way that every week all the fan favorite characters and angles get time. Imagine not getting the nWo on TV in 97 because Psicosis vs Juventus Guerrera and Harlem Heat vs The Nasty Boys needed more match time


Agree to some extent. I like that we don't get the same thing on repeat each week but there is a balance to be found where you can show most of the big guns most if the time. This is most important at go home shows and fall out shows - in order to attract and maintain new audiences. This is the area where AEW tend to fail to capitalise - next week's show should be star studded considering it will likely have more eyes on the product.


----------



## RapShepard

Two Sheds said:


> The shorter match times back then for sure helped get more people featured and built a desire to see the real match on the PPV.


Exactly and fans weren't going "I didn't get enough actual wrestling tonight" they were thinking " man I can't wait to Sting finally fucks Hogan up" and shit like that


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> If demo was everything, then why is the NBA money so much more than wrestling? Why was TNT willing to sell WCW to Vince McMahon for so damn cheap?
> 
> Wrestling holds a stigma to companies. Vince has damn near cracked into that mainstream acceptance, but he’s still not making NBA money. Go listen to Konnan discuss how the WCW guys felt shafted by their contracts compared to NBA money, despite beating the NBA in ratings. And this was prior to the NBA TV contracts going crazy with ESPN.


The NBA produces far more hours of content for TV that all has ads on it. They also generate revenue for countless hours of shows on ESPN and the like talking about and analyzing them. Wrestling has never had anyone on ESPN spend a lot of time analyzing matches heh.


----------



## RapShepard

Pentagon Senior said:


> Agree to some extent. I like that we don't get the same thing on repeat each week but there is a balance to be found where you can show most of the big guns most if the time. This is most important at go home shows and fall out shows - in order to attract and maintain new audiences. This is the area where AEW tend to fail to capitalise - next week's show should be star studded considering it will likely have more eyes on the product.


Now I don't want to see the WWE thing of running the same match 4 weeks in a row lol. But I'm a firm believer of generally speaking fans don't get tired of their favorites, so give them too them in some capacity. Every week fans should know they'll see Jericho, Moxley, Cody, Omega, The Bucks, and Hangman in some capacity be it match, promo, or segment.


----------



## Pippen94

Pentagon Senior said:


> Agree to some extent. I like that we don't get the same thing on repeat each week but there is a balance to be found where you can show most of the big guns most if the time. This is most important at go home shows and fall out shows - in order to attract and maintain new audiences. This is the area where AEW tend to fail to capitalise - next week's show should be star studded considering it will likely have more eyes on the product.


Tk making concerted effort to get over new talent. Fall out & go home shows get biggest audience so you can see him trying to give different wrestlers that exposure. Sacrificing ratings which are going to higher anyway for hopefully long term gain


----------



## Pentagon Senior

RapShepard said:


> Now I don't want to see the WWE thing of running the same match 4 weeks in a row lol. But I'm a firm believer of generally speaking fans don't get tired of their favorites, so give them too them in some capacity. Every week fans should know they'll see Jericho, Moxley, Cody, Omega, The Bucks, and Hangman in some capacity be it match, promo, or segment.


Yeh I'm with you only slight difference I'd say you could get away with having MOST of those characters on each week with a slight shuffle. Yeh that's what turned me off WWE more than anything tbh - seeing Rolins, Reigns, New Day etc do the same shit each week - but there is a balance to be found. 

Be interesting to see how things evolve with the new show. I'm on the fence about it - could be great with more presence from the biggest stars and a better platform for the next generation, or it could be a minefield trying to find an additional hours worth of creative booking each week when there have been inconsistencies with just 2 hours.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> It could be true now if they managed time better. Book the show in a way that every week all the fan favorite characters and angles get time. Imagine not getting the nWo on TV in 97 because Psicosis vs Juventus Guerrera and Harlem Heat vs The Nasty Boys needed more match time


I agree with some of that but when things were getting bad for wcw don't you think they wished they invested in some underneath talent??


----------



## validreasoning

Randy Lahey said:


> 0.42 is an outstanding demo. And that’s with competition from another wrestling show. Raw is averaging 0.52 demo with no competing show.
> 
> Look what TNT is paying for AEW vs what USA pays for Raw.
> 
> Biggest winner here is TNT. Biggest loser is Vince McMahon. USA next TV deal is going to compare what TNT is paying for AEW and bid Raw way down. This is why Vince did everything he could do to make AEW fail. He knows if they provide competing content for a far lower price that will drastically lower his own future deals.


It's one week. First two hours of Raw last week averaged 0.6 and it's competing against Monday night fucking football not a developmental wrestling show.

Also Raw is 3 hours and doesn't share ad revenue and next AEW tv deal will be higher not the same as current. Based on my estimate TNT are paying roughly same *per hour * for AEW right now (take account rights fees, ad sharing and free ads throughout the day) as USA were for Raw and SD circa 2014-19 and you at the time were very vocal that WWE was either getting dropped or huge reduction in TV deal!!!


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Pippen94 said:


> Tk making concerted effort to get over new talent. Fall out & go home shows get biggest audience so you can see him trying to give different wrestlers that exposure. Sacrificing ratings which are going to higher anyway for hopefully long term gain


Yeh I get that and it is necessary I agree - but I still think you make time for segments with the big stars on those shows (to make people stick around) with a few newer faces thrown in. The lesser known wrestlers would benefit from being on the same show as the bigger names. TK has done a decent job of it (I loved the car park brawl being a main event on Dynamite showcasing two lesser known acts) but feel the shows before and after ppv have sometimes let him down.

Next week's show, for instance, should be advertised first and foremost as the follow up to Sting and fallout of Omega/Mox - to draw as many viewers as possible. Then closer to the date add in a few matches of lesser known wrestlers who will benefit from the rub.


----------



## RapShepard

Pentagon Senior said:


> Yeh I'm with you only slight difference I'd say you could get away with having MOST of those characters on each week with a slight shuffle. Yeh that's what turned me off WWE more than anything tbh - seeing Rolins, Reigns, New Day etc do the same shit each week - but there is a balance to be found.
> 
> Be interesting to see how things evolve with the new show. I'm on the fence about it - could be great with more presence from the biggest stars and a better platform for the next generation, or it could be a minefield trying to find an additional hours worth of creative booking each week when there have been inconsistencies with just 2 hours.


I'm assuming the 2nd show will be like early SmackDown where it's just an extension of Dynamite and furthers stories which is a good thing. Can't imagine it will feel too different 




Pippen94 said:


> I agree with some of that but when things were getting bad for wcw don't you think they wished they invested in some underneath talent??


With that format they could still get over young talent. You still saw the young talent in WCW weekly, they just were stagnant in there position.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> It could be true now if they managed time better. Book the show in a way that every week all the fan favorite characters and angles get time. Imagine not getting the nWo on TV in 97 because Psicosis vs Juventus Guerrera and Harlem Heat vs The Nasty Boys needed more match time


i kinda like the rotating angles - except when they step away from a hot angle too long

Hangman should be on every week now for instance, time to build the company around him


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i kinda like the rotating angles - except when they step away from a hot angle too long
> 
> Hangman should be on every week now for instance, time to build the company around him


I can't stand it. Especially given the amount of time wrestling has compared to most shows. If I'm giving you 2 hours of my time the least you can do is follow up on that story thread from last week in some capacity even if it's just a quick "hey Joey Janela is still in critical condition after OC sprayed him with a flame thrower last week"


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pippen94 said:


> He's just posting actual numbers. Please post numbers you think are "correct" otherwise


He's posting numbers and making nonsensical claims.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pippen94 said:


> So norms & rules of TV don't apply to wrestling but just everything else - sure


Again "demos" doesn't matter when it comes to wrestling since most of the fanbase are poor therefore undesirable by advertisers.


----------



## Geeee

Ozell Gray said:


> Again "demos" doesn't matter when it comes to wrestling since most of the fanbase are poor therefore undesirable by advertisers.


By this logic, you could extrapolate that ratings don't really matter at all for wrestling and this whole thread is pointless

It doesn't really matter if you have 2 million people or 600k people not buying stuff


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Ozell Gray said:


> Again "demos" doesn't matter when it comes to wrestling since most of the fanbase are poor therefore undesirable by advertisers.


This is the point we need to drive home every week. Yeah, it's awesome that the youth are paying attention to AEW and hopefully that pays dividends when Vince's audience "dies off" but in terms of it being this huge deal I don't see it that way.

I think most people on here, with all due respect, only care about the demo because Meltzer makes a big deal out of it. Has AEW landed any multi million dollar sponsorships or earned any more dollars because of doing well in this demo? Are wrestlers jumping from WWE to be part of the young hip wrestling show? No. It's just a number that is high and apparently matters because big daddy Meltz says so.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> If demo was everything, then why is the NBA money so much more than wrestling? Why was TNT willing to sell WCW to Vince McMahon for so damn cheap?
> 
> Wrestling holds a stigma to companies. Vince has damn near cracked into that mainstream acceptance, but he’s still not making NBA money. Go listen to Konnan discuss how the WCW guys felt shafted by their contracts compared to NBA money, despite beating the NBA in ratings. And this was prior to the NBA TV contracts going crazy with ESPN.


Bingo. The idea that advertisers don’t choose as slots based on how hot the property is, cultural influence, prestige, how the demos further break down and other factors is childish and reductive.



Pippen94 said:


> So norms & rules of TV don't apply to wrestling but just everything else - sure


What rules? CBS was going to drop Nielsen a few years ago. Listen to others in TV. NO ONE gets stirred up by ratings as much as wrestling seems to, because it had this machismo driven “war” for eyeballs years ago.

Most people scoff at the idea of ratings being this undeniable dictating force. Especially in the age of driving people towards streaming.

Yes, talking about accessibility and popularity is fun. But it’s not what some people make it out to be. And it’s usually the pro-AEW side, I have to say, because they want to treat those ratings as power levels. It doesn’t work that way.

Yes, ratings are still important. They’re as important as advertisers and networks want them to be. Low ratings are a good scapegoat when getting rid of a product. They can be used as measuring stick to aid in determining whether or not something might be hot. Networks have a stakeholder interest at the end of the day. But they also understand that their industry doesn’t operate the same way as it used to when you had a handful of spaces for people to produce content



Pippen94 said:


> Funny TV willing to pay so much for wrestling then??


They actually don’t really. Not when it comes down to it. Check out the rights fees for wrestling versus live entertainment. You also have wrestling going the whole year round, the which means the per show price is driven down.

Wrestling is cheap as chips.



RelivingTheShadow said:


> NBA and major sports have prestige, networks will always pay more for that than Wrestling, and by a substantial margin.
> 
> TNT sold WCW 20 years ago, the Television landscape was way different, back then the most important number was the household rating(a rating in which NXT comfortably beats AEW every week in now mind you), but using that mindset and applying it to 2020 television is dumb.
> 
> Use the metrics that matter in 2020 television to judge 2020 television.


Yes, other things are more prestigious. That’s exactly the point.

If we’re going to use 2020 metrics to judge 2020 television, then I guess we can say that cable TV is dead. And again I ask how many AEW viewers are black, Hispanic, Asian or has disposab



Pippen94 said:


> Wow - somebody who actually has worked in TV industry commenting in this section. I bet nobody here challenges your points.


Already have. How Life runs his business is his business. Doesn’t necessarily apply to anyone else and by his own admission isn’t contemporary.



validreasoning said:


> It's one week. First two hours of Raw last week averaged 0.6 and it's competing against Monday night fucking football not a developmental wrestling show.
> 
> Also Raw is 3 hours and doesn't share ad revenue and next AEW tv deal will be higher not the same as current. Based on my estimate TNT are paying roughly same *per hour * for AEW right now (take account rights fees, ad sharing and free ads throughout the day) as USA were for Raw and SD circa 2014-19 and you at the time were very vocal that WWE was either getting dropped or huge reduction in TV deal!!!


SENSE! Reeee!



Geeee said:


> By this logic, you could extrapolate that ratings don't really matter at all for wrestling and this whole thread is pointless
> 
> It doesn't really matter if you have 2 million people or 600k people not buying stuff


That’s why you’ll find a lot of the WWE’s advertising aimed at an older crowd. Because that viewership does matter.

And keep in mind that if AEW got 580k people 18-49, they had less than 400k in older fans. Younger demos were valued because of their disposable income (variable when it comes to wrestling and modern society) and because they were hard to pin down (flighty). What happens if/when they leave?


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Chip Chipperson said:


> This is the point we need to drive home every week. Yeah, it's awesome that the youth are paying attention to AEW and hopefully that pays dividends when Vince's audience "dies off" but in terms of it being this huge deal I don't see it that way.
> 
> I think most people on here, with all due respect, only care about the demo because Meltzer makes a big deal out of it. Has AEW landed any multi million dollar sponsorships or earned any more dollars because of doing well in this demo? Are wrestlers jumping from WWE to be part of the young hip wrestling show? No. It's just a number that is high and apparently matters because big daddy Meltz says so.


Maybe it's not a huge deal but still a big deal. Like you said it's great if the youth are watching - the youth will get older and be replaced by new youths so it's a growing pool. 

Also, it's fun for fans to cheer these minor victories you know? It's pretty clear at this point that folks on both sides use whatever stats they can as a tool to bash their opponents with lol. It goes both ways but to be fair talking about demo's is probably more valid than 'page numbers on a wrestling forum thread' 😉


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> Maybe it's not a huge deal but still a big deal. Like you said it's great if the youth are watching - the youth will get older and be replaced by new youths so it's a growing pool.
> 
> Also, it's fun for fans to cheer these minor victories you know? It's pretty clear at this point that folks on both sides use whatever stats they can as a tool to bash their opponents with lol. It goes both ways but to be fair talking about demo's is probably more valid than 'page numbers on a wrestling forum thread' 😉


I hear this all the time, but it’s not how anything works. The WWF/E does not have this magic lineage of fandom that is passed down. TV is an immediate industry. No one is marketing their content thinking “We’ll have fans in 40 years.”


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> This is the point we need to drive home every week. Yeah, it's awesome that the youth are paying attention to AEW and hopefully that pays dividends when Vince's audience "dies off" but in terms of it being this huge deal I don't see it that way.
> 
> I think most people on here, with all due respect, only care about the demo because Meltzer makes a big deal out of it. Has AEW landed any multi million dollar sponsorships or earned any more dollars because of doing well in this demo? Are wrestlers jumping from WWE to be part of the young hip wrestling show? No. It's just a number that is high and apparently matters because big daddy Meltz says so.


you’re just gonna ignore my whole thing about demos, aren’t you

well, demo is how a ratecard is constructed as well

so, a point in the demo on average can simply mean a higher rate card figure per spot next quarter - hence more ad money (ratecards are normally adjusted every Q)

it is not difficult to understand - higher key demo in a primetime slot, higher ad revenue

this is for all tv, not just wrestling

maybe its worth 1k USD per spot more - which is maybe 50k more per week - in the greater scheme of things, not massive - but more is more


----------



## bdon

Pippen94 said:


> Tk making concerted effort to get over new talent. Fall out & go home shows get biggest audience so you can see him trying to give different wrestlers that exposure. Sacrificing ratings which are going to higher anyway for hopefully long term gain


You can put the youth on there, but you can NOT fail to deliver the goddamn main selling points of the PPV and the fallout to that PPV that is going to be the main story of your television show for the next few weeks. This isn’t hard, man. Goddamn.


Pentagon Senior said:


> Yeh I get that and it is necessary I agree - but I still think you make time for segments with the big stars on those shows (to make people stick around) with a few newer faces thrown in. The lesser known wrestlers would benefit from being on the same show as the bigger names. TK has done a decent job of it (I loved the car park brawl being a main event on Dynamite showcasing two lesser known acts) but feel the shows before and after ppv have sometimes let him down.
> 
> *Next week's show, for instance, should be advertised first and foremost as the follow up to Sting and fallout of Omega/Mox - to draw as many viewers as possible. Then closer to the date add in a few matches of lesser known wrestlers who will benefit from the rub.*


THANK YOU!!!


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> The AEW apologists get salty when confronted with logic. Stop breaking the rules just because you don’t like what the poster is saying.
> 
> If you want to know how advertisers see wrestling fans, watch Ready to Rumble. Check out AEW’s actual advertisements and see for yourselves.


Hey, there’s no need to be ‘salty’ and mad like the other frustrated critics by only focusing on your negative, twisted “logic” about the company just because Dynamite received a really good rating this week (along with their impressive demographic numbers too). 

Stop generalizing other fans, and just appreciate the fact that AEW is doing really well during a pandemic. Plus, there’s the fact that they realistically COULD work along with other promotions; which can potentially benefit everyone who will be involved there (including the passionate/good wrestling fans like those who actually support this company)


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> Hey, there’s no need to be ‘salty’ and mad like the other frustrated critics by only focusing on your negative, twisted “logic” about the company just because Dynamite received a really good rating this week (along with their impressive demographic numbers too).
> 
> Stop generalizing other fans, and just appreciate the fact that AEW is doing really well during a pandemic. Plus, there’s the fact that they realistically COULD work along with other promotions; which can potentially benefit everyone who will be involved there (including the passionate/good wrestling fans like those who actually support this company)


Good is subjective. I’m not impressed by their rating. Soz. They’re niche as fuck. And I don’t think they help wrestling. I think more bad/mediocre content (that’s being generous) is going to dry things up more and more.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Yet there’s so much bad content on this thread, and its booming


----------



## The Wood

Life, can you explain why other properties yet higher rights fees than WWE if all that matters is the demo?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> Life, can you explain why other properties yet higher rights fees than WWE if all that matters is the demo?


like what properties?

is there anything that gets massively more than wwe, yet has massively less in the key demo?


----------



## fabi1982

With that rating they should do 1.2m easily when Sting is actually the draw we all think he still is. Honestly I think they will reach their initial rating. So hope AEW knows that and does a good show.


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Yet there’s so much bad content on this thread, and its booming


Well aew did huge rating & they've been predicting its demise so...


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Well, i’ll tell you of one scenario i know about - but it is local to ZA, might be different elsewhere

WWE has some of the highest ratings, but there was a show with lower ratings, but higher rate card called Isidingo

reason was it was locally produced, with local celebs and it always had the news cycle spinning - so it had heat every week - with a religious following that you could set your watch by

soaps sometimes fall into that category

but that is one instance i can think of - more expensive to produce, still good ratings, and hot news cycle combined for a More expensive ad slot


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pippen94 said:


> Well aew did huge rating & they've been predicting its demise so...


i wonder if anybody still believe themselves when they predict AEW’s imminent demise these days

they just survived the pandemic in their first year and thrived - one of the hardest litmus tests i think any new wrestling company has even been subjected to

the rest seems easy in comparison

predicting their demise must be a troll at this point


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

TKO Wrestling said:


> Can’t believe they hit a .42. I’m sure it will go back down into the 30s but holy smokes. TNT has to be giddy.


What is shows is that whether people watch every week or not, they are tuned in and keeping an eye on AEW news. It shows that Dynamite is not a must watch show for all. Time to turn that around. The potential is massive.


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> You can put the youth on there, but you can NOT fail to deliver the goddamn main selling points of the PPV and the fallout to that PPV that is going to be the main story of your television show for the next few weeks. This isn’t hard, man. Goddamn.
> THANK YOU!!!


Where did you get that out of my posts?? Did I said they shouldn't do that?? I've argued aew should feature more than a handful of established acts & push performers who get over. They should learn from ratings & data and book accordingly. Nobody here has proved they haven't done that - just banged on about ppl being too small etc.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

fabi1982 said:


> With that rating they should do 1.2m easily when Sting is actually the draw we all think he still is. Honestly I think they will reach their initial rating. So hope AEW knows that and does a good show.


Would love to see it but feels like a stretch considering they've been averaging 750-800k before this week also total Weds night viewers usually tops out at 1.5m. It would take a big leap in number of Weds night viewers or a major grab from the NXT hardcore fanbase (not sure that's likely). Really hope you're right and I'm wrong but I'll predict circa 1m next week then dropping back into the 900's over time.


----------



## RiverFenix

Next weeks show was taped last night? Or will it be live again? I know it sucks if spoilers leak but there is no reason to have talent flying in every week.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Next weeks show was taped last night? Or will it be live again? I know it sucks if spoilers leak but there is no reason to have talent flying in every week.


i think its live

there was a kingston / archer dark match to end the night i hear

hence eddie coming out - by mistake early


----------



## fabi1982

Pentagon Senior said:


> Would love to see it but feels like a stretch considering they've been averaging 750-800k before this week also total Weds night viewers usually tops out at 1.5m. It would take a big leap in number of Weds night viewers or a major grab from the NXT hardcore fanbase (not sure that's likely). Really hope you're right and I'm wrong but I'll predict circa 1m next week then dropping back into the 900's over time.


But just look at the initial Dynamite. NXT did what? 800k? And AEW did 1.4m and this was just with the hopes of Punk, now people know Sting will be there. So I see the same casuals tuning in.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

fabi1982 said:


> But just look at the initial Dynamite. NXT did what? 800k? And AEW did 1.4m and this was just with the hopes of Punk, now people know Sting will be there. So I see the same casuals tuning in.


Man, I hope you're right. Keeping hold of them would be the next challenge


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> Well aew did huge rating & they've been predicting its demise so...


Nobody has ever predicted it's demise. I think we all know the Khan family has enough money to keep it alive until they want to end it.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Well aew did huge rating & they've been predicting its demise so...


Can we report people for lying? Seriously, enough is enough. NO ONE predicted its demise. Pippen knows this. It is getting closer and closer to slander when you deliberately lie about people to discredit them. It should stop.

The Khans have enough money to buy Wembley Stadium. That’s enough money to create a perpetually funded wrestling promotion.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i wonder if anybody still believe themselves when they predict AEW’s imminent demise these days
> 
> they just survived the pandemic in their first year and thrived - one of the hardest litmus tests i think any new wrestling company has even been subjected to
> 
> the rest seems easy in comparison
> 
> predicting their demise must be a troll at this point


No one is predicting its demise. Why do you keep suggesting this? I will only speak for myself, but I don’t trust TV execs. I was around when WCW was kicking ass and watched TV execs get crazy and give up. Shit like that happens all the time. Great ratings are not a guarantee of anything, especially when they’re not growing their audience. 


Optikk is All Elite said:


> What is shows is that whether people watch every week or not, they are tuned in and keeping an eye on AEW news. It shows that Dynamite is not a must watch show for all. Time to turn that around. The potential is massive.


It really is, which is why I get so goddamn angry at their CONSISTENT choice to load up Go Home and FallOut shows with people like QT Marshall, Griff Garrison, Kip Sabian, Sonny Kiss/Joey Janela, etc. Put characters like that on tv between PPVs as part of the filler episodes. You have so many eyes wanting to see what will become of these character they have invested in the last 6 weeks building to a PPV they spent $50 purchasing. PUT THOSE CHARACTERS FRONT AND CENTER!!!

Adam Page and Kenny should not be left off the Anniversary Show. Sting, Kenny, and Jon Moxley should be advertised front and center for the show following Winter is Coming. 

There are so many fans who know Sting’s name and relate him with TNT. You have an opportunity to INTRODUCE new eyes to your top wrestlers and characters...and AEW wants Dustin Rhodes, Griff Garrison, etc. I don’t think you want Brian Pillman Jr on TV at this stage, name recognition or not. 


Chip Chipperson said:


> Chip Chipperson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody has ever predicted it's demise. I think we all know the Khan family has enough money to keep it alive until they want to end it.
> 
> 
> 
> They could still grow their audience, but it doesn’t seem like they ever learn their lesson. Two steps forward, one step back.
Click to expand...


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Wood said:


> Can we report people for lying? Seriously, enough is enough. NO ONE predicted its demise. Pippen knows this. It is getting closer and closer to slander when you deliberately lie about people to discredit them. It should stop.
> 
> The Khans have enough money to buy Wembley Stadium. That’s enough money to create a perpetually funded wrestling promotion.


He knows full well none of us ever said this. It's baiting and interrupting an otherwise interesting discussion.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> Nobody has ever predicted it's demise. I think we all know the Khan family has enough money to keep it alive until they want to end it.


Aew exists because of TV deal - are you saying there's nobody here who has predicted company losing tv deal?? Because that is false


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pippen94 said:


> Aew exists because of TV deal - are you saying there's nobody here who has predicted company losing tv deal?? Because that is false


i definitely remember a lot of ‘losing of tv deal’ predictions


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> Aew exists because of TV deal - are you saying there's nobody here who has predicted company losing tv deal?? Because that is false


They have enough money to keep it afloat forever if they want to.

Lose TV deal means loss of income but not necessarily demise. You're baiting and looking for an argument.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> They have enough money to keep it afloat forever if they want to.
> 
> Lose TV deal means loss of income but not necessarily demise. You're baiting and looking for an argument.


Yeah. You know I’ve argued with you and, especially, @The Wood over the TV contract, but I don’t remember ever feeling like you were flat out saying TNT would kick them off the air. Always took the argument to be about whether the money was enough for AEW to remain profitable vs Shahid funding his son’s dream.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> Yeah. You know I’ve argued with you and, especially, @The Wood over the TV contract, but I don’t remember ever feeling like you were flat out saying TNT would kick them off the air. Always took the argument to be about whether the money was enough for AEW to remain profitable vs Shahid funding his son’s dream.


Yeah that's all it ever was. I think we've been successfully baited by Pippen. Why you! _Shakes fist angrily_


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> They have enough money to keep it afloat forever if they want to.
> 
> Lose TV deal means loss of income but not necessarily demise. You're baiting and looking for an argument.


The fact both wwe & aew ran through pandemic when every other form of entertainment shut down shows how essential TV rights are


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Aew exists because of TV deal - are you saying there's nobody here who has predicted company losing tv deal?? Because that is false


No, AEW exists because of Khan capital. Potential TV deals are why they saw it as a worthy investment. Losing the TV deal and losing the capital are not the same thing.

I’m STILL not sure AEW sees out the whole contract. I guarantee TNT have out clauses and can drop them whenever they want. I’m also not sure the popularity or interest in AEW doesn’t have the bottom fall out. They make big blunders all the time and do a lot of false starts. People expecting this AEW/TNA thing to be interesting might get VERY disappointed when it is a few promos from Kenny on another show and not the big story some fans hope it to be. They seem to be losing a lot of the older, more reliable fans. You drop out with the younger folks and have alienated your older fans, what are you left with?

None of that means Shad Khan isn’t going to keep funding his son



bdon said:


> Yeah. You know I’ve argued with you and, especially, @The Wood over the TV contract, but I don’t remember ever feeling like you were flat out saying TNT would kick them off the air. Always took the argument to be about whether the money was enough for AEW to remain profitable vs Shahid funding his son’s dream.


Bingo.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> No, AEW exists because of Khan capital. Potential TV deals are why they saw it as a worthy investment. Losing the TV deal and losing the capital are not the same thing.
> 
> I’m STILL not sure AEW sees out the whole contract. I guarantee TNT have out clauses and can drop them whenever they want. I’m also not sure the popularity or interest in AEW doesn’t have the bottom fall out. They make big blunders all the time and do a lot of false starts. People expecting this AEW/TNA thing to be interesting might get VERY disappointed when it is a few promos from Kenny on another show and not the big story some fans hope it to be. They seem to be losing a lot of the older, more reliable fans. You drop out with the younger folks and have alienated your older fans, what are you left with?
> 
> None of that means Shad Khan isn’t going to keep funding his son
> 
> 
> 
> Bingo.


if the tv deal was what made it a worthy investment to start off with, why would he keep funding it if its not there?

that train of thought does not arrive at a station


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> if the tv deal was what made it a worthy investment to start off with, why would he keep funding it if its not there?
> 
> that train of thought does not arrive at a station


Might feel confident he can get it on another network, might believe in it still, might want to fund his sons dream (Like Dixie's dad did)

Many possibilities


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> if the tv deal was what made it a worthy investment to start off with, why would he keep funding it if its not there?
> 
> that train of thought does not arrive at a station


Because when it comes to family, some people have a blind-spot. Tony is clearly inept at running sports teams, but he still has two.

There is also hope for another. Don’t think the Khans won’t try Viacom if Warner pull back. Shad has enough money to buy Tony his own too.


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i definitely remember a lot of ‘losing of tv deal’ predictions


Losing TV deal when TNT was doing less than 500K before AEW XD


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> Losing TV deal when TNT was doing less than 500K before AEW XD


It all depends on how valuable those viewers are deemed as and the cost-efficiency of the show.


----------



## 3venflow

Second/level with first on cable in the key demo this week. AEW and TNT will be giddy.

I wonder how the second show will do if it's unopposed. Will they put some of the big names on there?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

3venflow said:


> Second/level with first on cable in the key demo this week. AEW and TNT will be giddy.
> 
> I wonder how the second show will do if it's unopposed. Will they put some of the big names on there?
> 
> View attachment 94561


I'm seeing 33 shows that did better overall (Total viewers)


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Might feel confident he can get it on another network, might believe in it still, might want to fund his sons dream (Like Dixie's dad did)
> 
> Many possibilities


conjecture and speculation

the fact is, its his main source of income for this company

there’s been no indications it will run if there’s no tv deal as some sort of toybox vanity project - in fact, quite the opposite. TK said in many interviews the tv deal was key to the start of AEW and is their major focus.

hell, ‘winter is coming’ was done to emphasise the fact that tv is the most important according to just his latest presser before the event

i wonder sometimes if you lads don’t take this ‘money mark’ thing too far. Rich people who get rich not by generational wealth, but building companies are rarely dumb.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Second/level with first on cable in the key demo this week. AEW and TNT will be giddy.
> 
> I wonder how the second show will do if it's unopposed. Will they put some of the big names on there?
> 
> View attachment 94561


2nd spot is amazing


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'm seeing 33 shows that did better overall (Total viewers)


you keep calling @Pippen94 out for baiting

but this is the first true example of baiting. You know they list it by demo, you know why and you know this is the way its been done since this thread has started and also before (feel free to check Raw thread as far back as 10 yrs ago)

c’mon man


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Because when it comes to family, some people have a blind-spot. Tony is clearly inept at running sports teams, but he still has two.
> 
> There is also hope for another. Don’t think the Khans won’t try Viacom if Warner pull back. Shad has enough money to buy Tony his own too.


I watched my Los Angeles Lakers’ owner, Jerry Buss, choose to hire Mike fucking D’Antoni (who never tries to coach defense) over Phil Jackson who had won 5 titles in LA with Kobe Bryant...all because he felt his dipshit son wouldn’t have a chance to run the team. Ok Doc Buss chose his son over his own legacy of always being the owner who put business first in order to win championships.

6years later, and Jimmy Ballcap (the dipshit son) resigned from his position, handing over the keys to the castle to his sister, Jeanie, and Magic Johnson. Within 3 years of being rid of the dipshit son, we are back as NBA Champions.

Shahid Khan choosing to fund Tony’s dreams, in spite of his own business philosophies is not as crazy as you’d think.


----------



## validreasoning

rbl85 said:


> Losing TV deal when TNT was doing less than 500K before AEW XD


Won't lose tv deal but average primetime viewership on tnt in 2019 was over a million 115 Cable Channels Ranked by 2019 Viewership - Yes, Comedy.TV Is Still Dead Last


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> Because when it comes to family, some people have a blind-spot. Tony is clearly inept at running sports teams, but he still has two.
> 
> There is also hope for another. Don’t think the Khans won’t try Viacom if Warner pull back. Shad has enough money to buy Tony his own too.


are they or are they not profitable ventures? Not winning, making money

conjecture and speculation - you have no idea of the relationship him and his dad have or what will happen if it loses money

so, why even go down this route that you can never prove?


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you keep calling @Pippen94 out for baiting
> 
> but this is the first true example of baiting. You know they list it by demo, you know why and you know this is the way its been done since this thread has started and also before (feel free to check Raw thread as far back as 10 yrs ago)
> 
> c’mon man


Fire is smart guy - won't fall for that


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

validreasoning said:


> Won't lose tv deal but average primetime viewership on tnt in 2019 was over a million 115 Cable Channels Ranked by 2019 Viewership - Yes, Comedy.TV Is Still Dead Last


just go to showbuzzdaily, look at any year like 2019, 2018 and look what they did on Wednesdays

we all did

highest was 650k in the last 2 years before aew

normal average was 500k

and yes.... shocking demos - never in top 20


----------



## rbl85

validreasoning said:


> Won't lose tv deal but average primetime viewership on tnt in 2019 was over a million 115 Cable Channels Ranked by 2019 Viewership - Yes, Comedy.TV Is Still Dead Last


Wednesday was below 500k


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> conjecture and speculation
> 
> the fact is, its his main source of income for this company
> 
> there’s been no indications it will run if there’s no tv deal as some sort of toybox vanity project - in fact, quite the opposite. TK said in many interviews the tv deal was key to the start of AEW and is their major focus.
> 
> hell, ‘winter is coming’ was done to emphasise the fact that tv is the most important according to just his latest presser before the event
> 
> i wonder sometimes if you lads don’t take this ‘money mark’ thing too far. Rich people who get rich not by generational wealth, but building companies are rarely dumb.


I’m not saying it is not the main source of income. Nor am I saying that Shad is stupid. Lots of rich people have blind spots for their kids though. Everyone knows this. bdon gave some examples. There are plenty in wrestling.

The TV drying up doesn’t mean they won’t look for other TV to replace it. Of course it’s conjecture and speculation. We’re talking about hypotheticals here. 

Also, it should be pointed out that Tony IS rich because of generational wealth.




LifeInCattleClass said:


> you keep calling @Pippen94 out for baiting
> 
> but this is the first true example of baiting. You know they list it by demo, you know why and you know this is the way its been done since this thread has started and also before (feel free to check Raw thread as far back as 10 yrs ago)
> 
> c’mon man


Not everybody subscribes to the Showbuzz Daily model, mate. I don’t. I see value in properties with appeal to children and seniors too. People are people. Especially when it comes to gauging something as ridiculous to measure as cable TV viewers via



LifeInCattleClass said:


> are they or are they not profitable ventures? Not winning, making money
> 
> conjecture and speculation - you have no idea of the relationship him and his dad have or what will happen if it loses money
> 
> so, why even go down this route that you can never prove?


Because we’re on an Internet forum? You’re the ones going the other way claiming that TNT dropping them = dead, which is also speculation. What isn’t speculation is that you’re saying that’s what we’re saying, which it’s not.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you keep calling @Pippen94 out for baiting
> 
> but this is the first true example of baiting. You know they list it by demo, you know why and you know this is the way its been done since this thread has started and also before (feel free to check Raw thread as far back as 10 yrs ago)
> 
> c’mon man


I have always maintained that demo means nothing to me and overall rating is all I care about.

For what it's worth, it's a great demo rating but as we discussed yesterday what difference has that really made?

Please don't accuse me of baiting. I don't do that.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> I’m not saying it is not the main source of income. Nor am I saying that Shad is stupid. Lots of rich people have blind spots for their kids though. Everyone knows this. bdon gave some examples. There are plenty in wrestling.
> 
> *and lots of rich people don’t. There 50/50 statements with no end in sight*
> 
> The TV drying up doesn’t mean they won’t look for other TV to replace it. Of course it’s conjecture and speculation. We’re talking about hypotheticals here.
> 
> *we’re talking ratings here. There at least has to be some basis of reality or proof, right? Otherwise rename it ‘the my opinions thread based on my feelings’*
> 
> Also, it should be pointed out that Tony IS rich because of generational wealth.
> 
> *Not generational wealthy enough that he could do this on his own and without a business plan / loan. *
> 
> 
> Not everybody subscribes to the Showbuzz Daily model, mate. I don’t. I see value in properties with appeal to children and seniors too. People are people. Especially when it comes to gauging something as ridiculous to measure as cable TV viewers via
> 
> *It is not the showbuzz model. It is ’the model’. Want proof? Go youtube Raw’s ‘did you know’ - ‘did you know Raw has the most viewers in the demo of blah blah blah.... when overall viewers they got smoked - and this was 2011. But it is what it is - you can disagree with the model, but that doesn’t magically make it work different. Ratings are sorted by key demo - been like that globally for years*
> 
> Because we’re on an Internet forum? You’re the ones going the other way claiming that TNT dropping them = dead, which is also speculation. What isn’t speculation is that you’re saying that’s what we’re saying, which it’s not.
> 
> *the thing started because Pippen claimed people were predicting AEWs demise - and escalated from there. IMO, if tnt drops them, they’ll find another network. IMO also, based on all we’ve seen, TNT is not dropping them any time soon
> 
> not once have i said TNT dropping them = dead. I said the tv deal was central to their inception and continued existence*


i have time today


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> I have always maintained that demo means nothing to me and overall rating is all I care about.
> 
> For what it's worth, it's a great demo rating but as we discussed yesterday what difference has that really made?
> 
> Please don't accuse me of baiting. I don't do that.


i call it like i see it

that to me was baiting - more than the examples you called Pippen out for.

also - overall might mean the world to you, but that is just not how it works - proven, by the actual list that was posted

so, you guys can continue discussing bull fighting during swan lake, or we can chat about the Ballet in front of us

which shows a record high number 2 spot


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i call it like i see it
> 
> that to me was baiting - more than the examples you called Pippen out for


Fair enough, you're more than welcome to cycle through all the pages to see I've never really cared about demo.

Thread isn't about me though so let's stop discussing me, hey?


----------



## KingofKings1524

The Wood said:


> I’m not saying it is not the main source of income. Nor am I saying that Shad is stupid. Lots of rich people have blind spots for their kids though. Everyone knows this. bdon gave some examples. There are plenty in wrestling.
> 
> The TV drying up doesn’t mean they won’t look for other TV to replace it. Of course it’s conjecture and speculation. We’re talking about hypotheticals here.
> 
> Also, it should be pointed out that Tony IS rich because of generational wealth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not everybody subscribes to the Showbuzz Daily model, mate. I don’t. I see value in properties with appeal to children and seniors too. People are people. Especially when it comes to gauging something as ridiculous to measure as cable TV viewers via
> 
> 
> 
> Because we’re on an Internet forum? You’re the ones going the other way claiming that TNT dropping them = dead, which is also speculation. What isn’t speculation is that you’re saying that’s what we’re saying, which it’s not.





The Wood said:


> Wrestling is so far gone I’m genuinely about to give up trying to even care about it at all. They want to be irrelevant. Fuck it, maybe I should just give them what they want?
> 
> I might come back if I hear about something through the grapevine —a new promotion or a changeover in WWE management or something. But this shit is just so fucking awful, and who is it for?
> 
> Blah, AEW fucking sucks.





The Wood said:


> JR: “We’ve just been jobbed.”
> 
> Grrrooooooaaaaannnnn. Sorry, I think I’m fucking done. I just saw that clip. It reeked of WWE mixed with dying WCW. I don’t care about TNA. I don’t care about AEW. Omega is the shits. JR finally succumbing and becoming the new Tony Shiavone.
> 
> Enjoy your shitshow, ladies and gentlemen. This was my final straw.


Apparently not your final straw. And before anyone jumps on me about this being a “personal attack”, it’s not. Just an observation. It seems like you’re just here to get people riled up since you’ve admitted multiple times that you hate AEW.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

KingofKings1524 said:


> Apparently not your final straw. And before anyone jumps on me about this being a “personal attack”, it’s not. Just an observation. It seems like you’re just here to get people riled up since you’ve admitted multiple times that you hate AEW.


Post has nothing to do with ratings. Why is it here? Go call him out in rants


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i call it like i see it
> 
> that to me was baiting - more than the examples you called Pippen out for.
> 
> also - overall might mean the world to you, but that is just not how it works - proven, by the actual list that was posted
> 
> so, you guys can continue discussing bull fighting during swan lake, or we can chat about the Ballet in front of us
> 
> which shows a record high number 2 spot


No, that’s your belief, haha. You just keep saying something is so it is. Look at the commercials AEW actually wins. I saw a list a couple of months ago. They were for things like eyeglasses and ointment. Life insurance, that sort of thing. Has that changed?

I don’t rate media entertainment sites as anything more than gossip. Their business is ranking shows to appear “trendy.” I don’t go for that. And if I did, I wouldn’t take something like overall viewership and older/younger demos out of the equation entirely. We live in a much more nuanced and vibrant world than that.

Check what Nielsen are actually after. Check what TV networks are actually after. Not all of them want white people’s wrestling with white people wrestling mainly other white people. Why do you think WWE makes an effort to diversify its roster? Because that sort of shit is important to TV deals and advertisers too.

Once upon a time, MAYBE you could argue that a high demo versus everything else was the industry’s key indicator of success. But not now. Not when I’m willing to bet that cable is not the most effective way to reach that demo at all.
On its face, I’ve always rejected the idea of contemporary emphasis on the gentrified 18-49 key demo. It just doesn’t provide advertisers enough information



KingofKings1524 said:


> Apparently not your final straw. And before anyone jumps on me about this being a “personal attack”, it’s not. Just an observation. It seems like you’re just here to get people riled up since you’ve admitted multiple times that you hate AEW.


It is an attack. I’ll ask you to stop.

I’m not bound by any contract. I’ve largely stayed out of any threads that aren’t discussing this week or the business of things, which I find interesting. I may or may not take a full break from these boards and giving a shit about AEW at all. I haven’t decided yet.

But thanks for keeping tabs on me. Appreciate your obsession.


----------



## Whoanma

3venflow said:


> Second/level with first on cable in the key demo this week. AEW and TNT will be giddy.
> 
> I wonder how the second show will do if it's unopposed. Will they put some of the big names on there?
> 
> View attachment 94561


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> No, that’s your belief, haha. You just keep saying something is so it is. *Look at the commercials AEW actually wins. I saw a list a couple of months ago. They were for things like eyeglasses and ointment. Life insurance, that sort of thing. Has that changed?*
> 
> I don’t rate media entertainment sites as anything more than gossip. Their business is ranking shows to appear “trendy.” I don’t go for that. And if I did, I wouldn’t take something like overall viewership and older/younger demos out of the equation entirely. We live in a much more nuanced and vibrant world than that.
> 
> Check what Nielsen are actually after. Check what TV networks are actually after. Not all of them want white people’s wrestling with white people wrestling mainly other white people. Why do you think WWE makes an effort to diversify its roster? Because that sort of shit is important to TV deals and advertisers too.
> 
> Once upon a time, MAYBE you could argue that a high demo versus everything else was the industry’s key indicator of success. But not now. Not when I’m willing to bet that cable is not the most effective way to reach that demo at all.
> On its face, I’ve always rejected the idea of contemporary emphasis on the gentrified 18-49 key demo. It just doesn’t provide advertisers enough information
> 
> 
> 
> It is an attack. I’ll ask you to stop.
> 
> I’m not bound by any contract. I’ve largely stayed out of any threads that aren’t discussing this week or the business of things, which I find interesting. I may or may not take a full break from these boards and giving a shit about AEW at all. I haven’t decided yet.
> 
> But thanks for keeping tabs on me. Appreciate your obsession.


wait...... do you think these guys pay LESS than what a BMW would for that spot?

is that what you’re trying to say? There is no big massive brands like Nike and therefore it makes less money?

Do you have any idea how any of this works mate?

edit) also... the rest of your message. When last did you spend 100k marketing budget in anger? I would really love to know if this debate and rabbit hole we’re about to do down into is worth my time and i’m talking to somebody who understands the points

i’ll share you a LinkedIn on DMs if you want, just to check credentials. I’ll obvs require yours as well, just to check


----------



## Ozell Gray

Geeee said:


> By this logic, you could extrapolate that ratings don't really matter at all for wrestling and this whole thread is pointless
> 
> It doesn't really matter if you have 2 million people or 600k people not buying stuff


No the thing that makes sense to drive home is me saying the “demo” doesn’t matter when it comes to wrestling which has already been demonstrated numerous of times over the past 30 years.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> wait...... do you think these guys pay LESS than what a BMW would for that spot?
> 
> is that what you’re trying to say? There is no big massive brands like Nike and therefore it makes less money?
> 
> Do you have any idea how any of this works mate?


I don't think he's saying that at all. He's suggesting that no real exciting brands are advertising with AEW or during AEW.

Eyeglasses, ointments and life insurance are probably companies that buy a shit ton of ads and don't really mind where they're played.

It defeats the narrative that businesses are lining up for a piece of the AEW fanbase pie


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> I don't think he's saying that at all. He's suggesting that no real exciting brands are advertising with AEW or during AEW.
> 
> Eyeglasses, ointments and life insurance are probably companies that buy a shit ton of ads and don't really mind where they're played.
> 
> It defeats the narrative that businesses are lining up for a piece of the AEW fanbase pie


the narrative is and always has been - key demo high = more money

no less, no more

if you buy a primetime, high demo spot and it gives you a good ROI, defacto you have lined up for a piece of the pie. Especially if you buy the next week and the next week and so on...

that is quite literally how it works

all their money is green, and all their goals are different - you and i can’t begin to surmise the PnL and KPIs of each advertiser

but we do know, higher demos = more valuable ads. More valuable ads = more money


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the narrative is and always has been - key demo high = more money
> 
> no less, no more
> 
> if you buy a primetime, high demo spot and it gives you a good ROI, defacto you have lined up for a piece of the pie
> 
> that is quite literally how it works
> 
> all their money is green, and all their goals are different - you and i can’t begin to surmise the PnL and KPIs of each advertiser
> 
> but we do know, higher demos = more valuable ads. More valuable ads = more moneu


So...where are the valuable ads airing on Dynamite? They had a 30 second ad on the last show encouraging people to visit a doctor and get medicine if they have nausea and diaherrea.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Also, just so we’re clear - some of the largest ad budgets in the world are ‘eyeglasses and insurance’ and mundane products like that

way more than the ‘in vogue’ brands


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Also, just so we’re clear - some of the largest ad budgets in the world are ‘eyeglasses and insurance’ and mundane products like that
> 
> way more than the ‘in vogue’ brands


How come all the ads are so boring and cheap looking then?


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> wait...... do you think these guys pay LESS than what a BMW would for that spot?
> 
> is that what you’re trying to say? There is no big massive brands like Nike and therefore it makes less money?
> 
> Do you have any idea how any of this works mate?
> 
> edit) also... the rest of your message. When last did you spend 100k marketing budget in anger? I would really love to know if this debate and rabbit hole we’re about to do down into is worth my time and i’m talking to somebody who understands the points
> 
> i’ll share you a LinkedIn on DMs if you want, just to check credentials. I’ll obvs require yours as well, just to check


While I always find @The Wood annoying in how matter of fact Lynne discusses the demo’s (no matter how much his point makes sense logically), I have to stop you here for a second: do you think everyone is paying the $5m for a 30 second ad during the Super Bowl, even if it’s a local car insurance ad on ANY other channel that isn’t hosting the Super Bowl?

WWE brand recognition means USA MAY be able to charge more for an ad during that NXT time slot than TNT can charge for its time slot.

Prestige goes a long way towards these things, and AEW doesn’t have the brand name recognition yet.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> So...where are the valuable ads airing on Dynamite? They had a 30 second ad on the last show encouraging people to visit a doctor and get medicine if they have nausea and diaherrea.


and do you think they paid less than Tiffany’s would?

do you think the ad will suddenly be more if Tiffany’s bought it?

the price is determined by

1. Network
2. Timeslot
3. Demo
3.1) gender


......




4. Content of the show airing and how it pertains to your product.

You guys have watched too many romcoms with the strappy ad exec trying to land that one big client


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> How come all the ads are so boring and cheap looking then?


you make what converts mate. What brings in money for your business - make whatever that is

*especially if you deal with low or low-middle class income. The ad basically becomes your point of sale. You do the hardest sell you possibly can.

its not pretty, but its super effective


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> and do you think they paid less than Tiffany’s would?
> 
> do you think the ad will suddenly be more of Tiffany’s bought it?
> 
> the price is determined by
> 
> 1. Network
> 2. Timeslot
> 3. Demo
> 3.1) gender
> 
> 
> ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Content of the show airing and how it pertains to your product.
> 
> You guys have watched too many romcoms with the strappy ad exec trying to land that one big client


I'm simply suggesting that very few brands that appeal to 18-49 demographic are advertising on Dynamite. Life insurance, eyeglasses etc are generally older people products.

What product is taking advantage of the AEW key demo?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'm simply suggesting that very few brands that appeal to 18-49 demographic are advertising on Dynamite. Life insurance, eyeglasses etc are generally older people products.
> 
> What product is taking advantage of the AEW key demo?


breakdown the last Dynamites ads for me and I’ll
Tell you what the thought process of each is to the best of my ability

i can’t do much with ‘life insurance and eyeglasses’ - what sort of life insurance, what sort of eyeglasses

what were they marketing, what was the deal? What was the sale? What is the ‘call to action’

how many times was the ‘call to action’ in the ad

otherwise it becomes hypothetical

ps) life insurance is not ‘old people’ products - it is 30-something. Ride the fear wave.

‘you have 3 kids, a mortgage - what happens to them when you die?! Don’t leave them uncared for...’

an old person does not care about life insurance, their life is almost over, house paid and kids out of house - it is prime converting for people with young families and steady jobs


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> breakdown the last Dynamites ads for me and I’ll
> Tell you what the thought process of each is to the best of my ability
> 
> i can’t do much with ‘life insurance and eyeglasses’ - what sort of life insurance, what sort of eyeglasses
> 
> what were they marketing, what was the deal? What was the sale? What is the ‘call to action’
> 
> how many times was the ‘call to action’ in the ad
> 
> otherwise it becomes hypothetical
> 
> ps) life insurance is not ‘old people’ products - it is 30-something. Ride the fear wave.
> 
> ‘you have 3 kids, a mortgage - what happens to them when you die?! Don’t leave them uncared for...’
> 
> an old person does not care about life insurance - it is prime converting for people with young families and steady jobs


You're reaching brother. I'm 29 the youngest person I know with life insurance is 55. 

I actually don't remember a lot of their ads, lots of TNT shows, movies etc, lot's of health related things (like the diaherrea thing), I think perhaps the occasional food product?

Someone else will chime in with more info I'm sure


----------



## Klitschko

I know nothing about ratings, but damn @LifeInCattleClass sure is making a believer out of me with what he is saying.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> You're reaching brother. I'm 29 the youngest person I know with life insurance is 55.
> 
> I actually don't remember a lot of their ads, lots of TNT shows, movies etc, lot's of health related things (like the diaherrea thing), I think perhaps the occasional food product?
> 
> Someone else will chime in with more info I'm sure


so.... because you only know 1 person with life insurance, I’m reaching?

take a knee mate and understand that you definitely don’t understand everything. I won’t take you on with booking indie wrestling shows - but this marketing shit is my world for 20 years now

i’ll predict you’ll have life insurance in the next 7 years - maybe when your 2nd kid goes to school

lol

ps) ask your 55 year old mate when he got his life insurance

i’ll wait

Spoiler - it’ll be his 30’s or mid-40s when he got his 2nd mortgage

lololol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Klitschko said:


> I know nothing about ratings, but damn @LifeInCattleClass sure is making a believer out of me with what he is saying.


..... i’m a marketer mate

.... i lie


----------



## Klitschko

Just wanted to add in that I'm 30, and I have life insurance. Most of my friends that are around my age have life insurance. For most of us its because of fears of Covid, or because we have kids and want to leave them something if something were to ever happen.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> so.... because you only know 1 person with life insurance, I’m reaching?
> 
> take a knee mate and understand that you definitely don’t understand everything. I won’t take you on with booking indie wrestling shows - but this marketing shit is my world for 20 years now
> 
> i’ll predict you’ll have life insurance in the next 7 years - maybe when your 2nd kid goes to school
> 
> lol
> 
> ps) ask your 55 year old mate when he got his life insurance
> 
> i’ll wait
> 
> Spoiler - it’ll be his 30’s or mid-40s when he got his 2nd mortgage
> 
> lololol


I know many people with life insurance. The youngest I know is 55.

He only got life insurance a few years back. He is my girlfriends father.

The others I'm not sure when they got theirs but it definitely wasn't when they were young.

I'm just discussing with you. I can assure you I don't know everything and I'm sure my circumstances aren't the same as everyone else's


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> I know many people with life insurance. The youngest I know is 55.
> 
> He only got life insurance a few years back. He is my girlfriends father.
> 
> The others I'm not sure when they got theirs but it definitely wasn't when they were young.
> 
> I'm just discussing with you. I can assure you I don't know everything and I'm sure my circumstances aren't the same as everyone else's


banks basically force you to get life insurance when you buy a house - double so when you remortgage. Normal ages for that is 30 - 45

and @Klitschko explained it beautifully in his scenario

its a massive big budget industry

its also the drizzling shits - i’ve tried to avoid it as much as possible as a product. Very much a ‘numbers’ game


----------



## Shock Street

I'm 28 and I have it but it wasn't because of an ad


----------



## Shock Street

Fuck it, someone remind me on Wednesday (I'm setting an alarm), I'm going to write down every ad


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Shock Street said:


> Fuck it, someone remind me on Wednesday (I'm setting an alarm), I'm going to write down every ad


lol - record them while you’re at it


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> banks basically force you to get life insurance when you buy a house - double so when you remortgage. Normal ages for that is 30 - 45
> 
> and @Klitschko explained it beautifully in his scenario
> 
> its a massive big budget industry
> 
> its also the drizzling shits - i’ve tried to avoid it as much as possible as a product. Very much a ‘numbers’ game


Things are different in different countries, but no one is making you buy life insurance in the US.

I do not know any single people that have it and most companies I have worked for have it provided as a benefit (usually 1x or 2x your annual salary). I have never bought supplemental life insurance but I would if I had kids.


----------



## Shock Street

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol - record them while you’re at it


I might not be able to, I watch USA TV through an extremely sketchy IPTV app, but I will try. I'm actually really interested to see it broken down.


----------



## rbl85

There will be no AEW on the 23 because there is a NBA game at 7:30pm


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Two Sheds said:


> Things are different in different countries, but no one is making you buy life insurance in the US.
> 
> I do not know any single people that have it and most companies I have worked for have it provided as a benefit (usually 1x or 2x your annual salary). I have never bought supplemental life insurance but I would if I had kids.


Yeah I think that's the same here. It's not common here at all. As a matter of fact I think we all get it from our retirement funds


----------



## rbl85

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah I think that's the same here. It's not common here at all. As a matter of fact I think we all get it from our retirement funds


Well Australia is pretty similar to the US on that aspect.


----------



## One Shed

Well, I took one for the team and documented the commercials for the week. I never watch commercials so this was painful. The only one that did anything for me was Popeye's and now I want that chicken tonight. I am NOT doing RAW though. I refuse to watch that again.

First Break:

Cricket Wireless - 15 seconds
Your Honor (Show on Showtime) - 30 seconds
Hardee's - 15 Seconds
Pure Wick (Helps people sleep without peeing themselves in bed) - 60 seconds
Snowpiercer Season 2 - 30 seconds

Second Break (Picture in Picture):

Go-Big Show (Show Cody is on) - 30 seconds
Half Brothers Movie - 15 seconds
Cheeze-It snack - 15 Seconds
Geico - 30 seconds
Kind chocolate snack - 15 seconds
Blue Moon bitch drink - 15 seconds
Papa John's "pizza" - 15 seconds
Kay Jewelers - 15 seconds
Star Wars movie marathon on TNT - 15 seconds

Third Break (Partial Picture in Picture):

Cypunk game for Xbox - 30 seconds
Wendy's - 30 seconds
Visionworks - 15 seconds
Nutri-grain bar - 15 seconds
(Picture in Picture ends)
Wonder Woman 1984 - 30 seconds
Touch of Modern - 30 seconds
PassItOn.com - 30 seconds

Fourth Break:

Cheeze-It snack - 15 Seconds
Jared (cheap jewelry) - 15 seconds
Hardee's - 15 seconds
US Postal Service - 15 seconds
PassItOn.com - 60 seconds
Verizon Wireless - 30 seconds
Lasor Wulf (some cartoon) - 20 seconds
Snowpiercer Season 2 - 20 seconds
KFC - 15 seconds
Cricket Wireless - 15 seconds
Local commerical (This was local to my state/city) - 30 seconds
American Family Insurance - 30 seconds
State Farm insurance - 15 seconds
M&M candy - 15 seconds
Bounce (laundry product) - 30 seconds

Fifth Break:

Miller Lite "beer" - 15 seconds
Jared (cheap jewelry) - 15 seconds
TNT commercial for themselves - 20 seconds
Touch of Modern - 30 seconds
PassItOn.com - 30 seconds
Cheeze-It snack - 15 Seconds
Hardee's - 15 seconds
Go-Big Show (Show Cody is on) - 30 seconds

Main Event begins

Sixth Break:

Popeye's (Awesome chicken) - 15 seconds (now I want Popeye's)
Half Brothers Movie - 15 seconds
US Postal Service - 15 seconds
Nutri-grain bar - 15 seconds
Consumer Cellular (Cheap wireless provider) - 60 seconds
Progressive Insurance - 30 seconds
Verizon Wireless - 30 seconds
AEW commercial - 10 seconds
HBO Max - 10 seconds

Seventh Break (Picture in Picture:

Snowpiercer Season 2 - 15 seconds
State Farm insurance - 15 seconds
Cheeze-It snack - 15 Seconds
Your Honor (Show on Showtime) - 30 seconds
Keytrude (some drug for lung cancer) - 90 seconds! Geez

Eighth Break (Picture in Picture:

State Farm insurance - 30 seconds
Samsung Galaxy S20 phone - 30 seconds
Go-Big Show (Show Cody is on) - 20 seconds
Kay Jewelers - 15 seconds
Half Brothers movie - 15 seconds
Lego - 30 seconds
Fast and the Furious 6 (movie airing after Dynamite ends) - 20 seconds


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> wait...... do you think these guys pay LESS than what a BMW would for that spot?
> 
> is that what you’re trying to say? There is no big massive brands like Nike and therefore it makes less money?
> 
> Do you have any idea how any of this works mate?
> 
> edit) also... the rest of your message. When last did you spend 100k marketing budget in anger? I would really love to know if this debate and rabbit hole we’re about to do down into is worth my time and i’m talking to somebody who understands the points
> 
> i’ll share you a LinkedIn on DMs if you want, just to check credentials. I’ll obvs require yours as well, just to check


That’s not what I’m saying at all. I don’t know if you’re not comprehending what I’m saying or are deliberately twisting.

I’m saying that I’m willing to bet that TNT are not selling those ad slots at the same rate they would if another property were drawing the exact same numbers. You can only charge what people are willing to pay. Some advertisers just don’t want to be associated with wrestling, full-stop. Hell, some networks don’t want to be associated with wrestling.

Brand image is important to people trying to sell anything. So much more goes into that than the demo. Especially in 2020 for a whole range of cultural and economic reasons. This is why it’s possible for even hot properties to lose sponsorship deals and the like.

This idea that the demo rules all is smoke and mirrors.



bdon said:


> While I always find @The Wood annoying in how matter of fact Lynne discusses the demo’s (no matter how much his point makes sense logically), I have to stop you here for a second: do you think everyone is paying the $5m for a 30 second ad during the Super Bowl, even if it’s a local car insurance ad on ANY other channel that isn’t hosting the Super Bowl?
> 
> WWE brand recognition means USA MAY be able to charge more for an ad during that NXT time slot than TNT can charge for its time slot.
> 
> Prestige goes a long way towards these things, and AEW doesn’t have the brand name recognition yet.


Great post. Honestly have nothing to add to that other than it makes perfect logical sense.[/QUOTE]


----------



## The Wood

Two Sheds said:


> Well, I took one for the team and documented the commercials for the week. I never watch commercials so this was painful. The only one that did anything for me was Popeye's and now I want that chicken tonight. I am NOT doing RAW though. I refuse to watch that again.
> 
> First Break:
> 
> Cricket Wireless - 15 seconds
> Your Honor (Show on Showtime) - 30 seconds
> Hardee's - 15 Seconds
> Pure Wick (Helps people sleep without peeing themselves in bed) - 60 seconds
> Snowpiercer Season 2 - 30 seconds
> 
> Second Break (Picture in Picture):
> 
> Go-Big Show (Show Cody is on) - 30 seconds
> Half Brothers Movie - 15 seconds
> Cheeze-It snack - 15 Seconds
> Geico - 30 seconds
> Kind chocolate snack - 15 seconds
> Blue Moon bitch drink - 15 seconds
> Papa John's "pizza" - 15 seconds
> Kay Jewelers - 15 seconds
> Star Wars movie marathon on TNT - 15 seconds
> 
> Third Break (Partial Picture in Picture):
> 
> Cypunk game for Xbox - 30 seconds
> Wendy's - 30 seconds
> Visionworks - 15 seconds
> Nutri-grain bar - 15 seconds
> (Picture in Picture ends)
> Wonder Woman 1984 - 30 seconds
> Touch of Modern - 30 seconds
> PassItOn.com - 30 seconds
> 
> Fourth Break:
> 
> Cheeze-It snack - 15 Seconds
> Jared (cheap jewelry) - 15 seconds
> Hardee's - 15 seconds
> US Postal Service - 15 seconds
> PassItOn.com - 60 seconds
> Verizon Wireless - 30 seconds
> Lasor Wulf (some cartoon) - 20 seconds
> Snowpiercer Season 2 - 20 seconds
> KFC - 15 seconds
> Cricket Wireless - 15 seconds
> Local commerical (This was local to my state/city) - 30 seconds
> American Family Insurance - 30 seconds
> State Farm insurance - 15 seconds
> M&M candy - 15 seconds
> Bounce (laundry product) - 30 seconds
> 
> Fifth Break:
> 
> Miller Lite "beer" - 15 seconds
> Jared (cheap jewelry) - 15 seconds
> TNT commercial for themselves - 20 seconds
> Touch of Modern - 30 seconds
> PassItOn.com - 30 seconds
> Cheeze-It snack - 15 Seconds
> Hardee's - 15 seconds
> Go-Big Show (Show Cody is on) - 30 seconds
> 
> Main Event begins
> 
> Sixth Break:
> 
> Popeye's (Awesome chicken) - 15 seconds (now I want Popeye's)
> Half Brothers Movie - 15 seconds
> US Postal Service - 15 seconds
> Nutri-grain bar - 15 seconds
> Consumer Cellular (Cheap wireless provider) - 60 seconds
> Progressive Insurance - 30 seconds
> Verizon Wireless - 30 seconds
> AEW commercial - 10 seconds
> HBO Max - 10 seconds
> 
> Seventh Break (Picture in Picture:
> 
> Snowpiercer Season 2 - 15 seconds
> State Farm insurance - 15 seconds
> Cheeze-It snack - 15 Seconds
> Your Honor (Show on Showtime) - 30 seconds
> Keytrude (some drug for lung cancer) - 90 seconds! Geez
> 
> Eighth Break (Picture in Picture:
> 
> State Farm insurance - 30 seconds
> Samsung Galaxy S20 phone - 30 seconds
> Go-Big Show (Show Cody is on) - 20 seconds
> Kay Jewelers - 15 seconds
> Half Brothers movie - 15 seconds
> Lego - 30 seconds
> Fast and the Furious 6 (movie airing after Dynamite ends) - 20 seconds


Bless for taking one for the team. I didn’t expect anyone to put that much effort in. I was just making a general point, haha.

Looks to me like a bunch of TNT shows/movies, products aimed at old people and unhealthy foods/drinks. No one is seeing that demo and thinking “Here’s a chance to market to young people!” Wrestling fans are a bunch of fat, alcoholic bed-wetters, apparently.

Never tried Popeye’s chicken, but if you vouch for it, Two Sheds, it’s on the agenda, my man.


----------



## CM Buck

God I hate this thread. Just putting this out there. 

SPECULATION ON A COMPANY'S DEMISE OR WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO IT IS FINE. WWE HAS IT DISCUSSED, TNA HAS IT DISCUSSED. ROH, PWG, SOME BACKYARD FED IN TIMBUKTU.

If wwe gets that speculation so can aew. Its a pretty argument to refute so refute it without silly baiting alright?


----------



## One Shed

The Wood said:


> Bless for taking one for the team. I didn’t expect anyone to put that much effort in. I was just making a general point, haha.
> 
> Looks to me like a bunch of TNT shows/movies, products aimed at old people and unhealthy foods/drinks. No one is seeing that demo and thinking “Here’s a chance to market to young people!” Wrestling fans are a bunch of fat, alcoholic bed-wetters, apparently.
> 
> Never tried Popeye’s chicken, but if you vouch for it, Two Sheds, it’s on the agenda, my man.


Popeye's is the best. Their new chicken sandwich is like crack.


----------



## The Wood

In Australia it is much more common for people with kids to get health insurance. There was a tiny marketing push for younger people to get it by 30, so you are grandfathered into lower rates, but it’s a bit of a scam to rope younger people in since you statistically won’t end up using what you’re paying until you’re >55.

Life insurance over here is almost always aimed at older people. I most often see it during daytime cable during crime shows, which are a (guilty) pleasure of mine when I look after my parents’ dog when they go up north for holidays.

If they’re tabulating my viewership habits while there, I’m in the 49+ plus demo, apparently.


----------



## rbl85

Firefromthegods said:


> God I hate this thread. Just putting this out there.
> 
> SPECULATION ON A COMPANY'S DEMISE OR WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO IT IS FINE. WWE HAS IT DISCUSSED, TNA HAS IT DISCUSSED. ROH, PWG, SOME BACKYARD FED IN TIMBUKTU.
> 
> If wwe gets that speculation so can aew. Its a pretty argument to refute so refute it without silly baiting alright?


Since when are you a moderator ?


----------



## The Wood

Firefromthegods said:


> God I hate this thread. Just putting this out there.
> 
> SPECULATION ON A COMPANY'S DEMISE OR WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO IT IS FINE. WWE HAS IT DISCUSSED, TNA HAS IT DISCUSSED. ROH, PWG, SOME BACKYARD FED IN TIMBUKTU.
> 
> If wwe gets that speculation so can aew. Its a pretty argument to refute so refute it without silly baiting alright?


It’s kind of the point of this thread, no?

Haha, sounds like being god is starting to take its toll on your mortal frame.


----------



## CM Buck

rbl85 said:


> Since when are you a moderator ?


As of like 3 days ago.

@The Wood I didn't say don't speculate or debate over AEW. Thats what the threads for despite my hatred of number's and Nelson 

Just refute the points of the arguments without fishing


----------



## rbl85

Firefromthegods said:


> As of like 3 days ago.


Ah ok i was like "was he a moderator the whole time and i never saw the sign ?" XD


----------



## Chip Chipperson

After reading those ads almost nothing is there for young people. Help with bed wetting? Jewellers? A movie from 1984? A website for veterans? Laundry products? The fucking US Postal Service?

C'mon fam! Someone save Two Sheds brilliant post for whenever anyone brings up demo again.


----------



## Pippen94

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334974027790577664


----------



## Klitschko

Chip Chipperson said:


> After reading those ads almost nothing is there for young people. Help with bed wetting? Jewellers? A movie from 1984? A website for veterans? Laundry products? The fucking US Postal Service?
> 
> C'mon fam! Someone save Two Sheds brilliant post for whenever anyone brings up demo again.


There is literally a shit ton of stuff on there for folks below 30.


----------



## The Wood

Klitschko said:


> There is literally a shit ton of stuff on there for folks below 30.


I love ya, Klitschko, but like what? Seriously?


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> After reading those ads almost nothing is there for young people. Help with bed wetting? Jewellers? A movie from 1984? A website for veterans? Laundry products? The fucking US Postal Service?
> 
> C'mon fam! Someone save Two Sheds brilliant post for whenever anyone brings up demo again.


Wonder Women 1984 is a movie that is releasing soon. It’s one of the big budget DC universe movies. Hah


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Klitschko said:


> There is literally a shit ton of stuff on there for folks below 30.


Point them out, I'm not American but if you're talking the shit food that's kind of an all ages thing


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> Wonder Women 1984 is a movie that is releasing soon. It’s one of the big budget DC universe movies. Hah


Interesting. Okay, that's one for youth.


----------



## One Shed

Chip Chipperson said:


> After reading those ads almost nothing is there for young people. Help with bed wetting? Jewellers? A movie from 1984? A website for veterans? Laundry products? The fucking US Postal Service?
> 
> C'mon fam! Someone save Two Sheds brilliant post for whenever anyone brings up demo again.


To be fair Wonder Woman 1984 is the NEW Wonder Woman movie that comes out in a few weeks. It just is set in 1984.

I just want my chicken.


----------



## Klitschko

The Wood said:


> I love ya, Klitschko, but like what? Seriously?





Chip Chipperson said:


> Point them out, I'm not American but if you're talking the shit food that's kind of an all ages thing


Yes, for sure guys. These are all the things I saw for people under 30/lower income.

Pizza hut
Cyber punk video game
Cheap jewelry
M&M candy
Cheese it snacks
Popeyes
Half brothers movie
Samsung galaxy phone
Lego
Fast and furious
Go big show - only aew fans will watch
Miller lite beer
Blue moon beer
KFC


----------



## Randy Lahey

validreasoning said:


> It's one week. First two hours of Raw last week averaged 0.6 and it's competing against Monday night fucking football not a developmental wrestling show.
> 
> Also Raw is 3 hours and doesn't share ad revenue and next AEW tv deal will be higher not the same as current. Based on my estimate TNT are paying roughly same *per hour * for AEW right now (take account rights fees, ad sharing and free ads throughout the day) as USA were for Raw and SD circa 2014-19 and you at the time were very vocal that WWE was either getting dropped or huge reduction in TV deal!!!


We’ve already seen what has happened in European markets. At least one outright dropped Raw and picked up AEW in its place because of the cost savings.

AEW doing these demo numbers doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll get a higher deal. It means Raw will get less. More competition drives down the price for everyone especially in a TV market where wrestling isn’t that highly thought of to begin with. Vince did his best to protect his monopoly but he has failed.


----------



## The Wood

Wonder Woman is a Warner property though. I don’t think they’d pay for advertising. At best Dynamite is just being used as a clothesline to air that laundry.


----------



## The Wood

Klitschko said:


> Yes, for sure guys. These are all the things I saw for people under 30/lower income.
> 
> Pizza hut
> Cyber punk video game
> Cheap jewelry
> M&M candy
> Cheese it snacks
> Popeyes
> Half brothers movie
> Samsung galaxy phone
> Lego
> Fast and furious
> Go big show - only aew fans will watch
> Miller lite beer
> Blue moon beer
> KFC


Thanks for replying. Food and drink I’m going to leave. I don’t really categorise them as young people’s stuff. Most booze advertisements I see are catered to older people. But anyway, I’ll give you CyberPunk, because I can’t find any connection between it and Warner Bros.

Everything else has some sort of link, I’m willing to bet. Happy to be wrong about the films (I’m not going to check them out).

I’ll give you Lego too, because that’s got ties everywhere and isn’t owned by Warner. And that skews younger than the demo.


----------



## Klitschko

The Wood said:


> Thanks for replying. Food and drink I’m going to leave. I don’t really categorise them as young people’s stuff. Most booze advertisements I see are catered to older people. But anyway, I’ll give you CyberPunk, because I can’t find any connection between it and Warner Bros.
> 
> Everything else has some sort of link, I’m willing to bet. Happy to be wrong about the films (I’m not going to check them out).
> 
> I’ll give you Lego too, because that’s got ties everywhere and isn’t owned by Warner. And that skews younger than the demo.


I get what ya mean and I wasn't looking at any hidden links between them personally, just what I would have loved as a 20 year old haha. With the booze though, the ones they were advertising are super cheap booze that mostly 20 year olds drink. No offense at anyone older that drinks them.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Klitschko said:


> Yes, for sure guys. These are all the things I saw for people under 30/lower income.
> 
> Pizza hut
> Cyber punk video game
> Cheap jewelry
> M&M candy
> Cheese it snacks
> Popeyes
> Half brothers movie
> Samsung galaxy phone
> Lego
> Fast and furious
> Go big show - only aew fans will watch
> Miller lite beer
> Blue moon beer
> KFC


Also to piggyback off of this even uncle Dave said years ago that the "demo" doesn't matter when it comes to wrestling but he's of course walked that back since AEW has come on the scene.

On last night's Observer Radio, Dave mentioned that he recently got eyes on WWE's ad rates, and he mentioned that despite their viewership, and market share (numbers most other cable shows would love), the ad rates they get are still fairly terrible.
He didn't give any specifics on prices, but put forth that the rates are significantly less than that of the UFC, which already gets lower rates than regular cable shows because of the violence factor that comes along with it. This is even more significant because the WWE does a million more viewers each week on average than the UFC, and even more than that for most cable shows which get those higher ad rates.
Dave posits that the WWE gets 1/10th the ad rates than that of a regular cable show, which is down significantly from the past when the WWE would get about half the cost in ad rates than the standard show.

Following this through to TNA, he speaks about ad rates being one of the big factors in Destination America dumping the promotion last year, and may be souring Pop TV on TNA right now. According to PWInsider, the ad rates for Impact are about $350 per 30 second spot, which is very, very low. And because of the revenue share aspect of the TV deal, Pop only sees half of that.
So, long story short: Wrestling fans still have a reputation for being cheap and advertisers aren't willing to spend any real money because of that. Vince's 30 year plan to calling pro wrestling "sports entertainment" has done nothing except bother his actual fans.



Wrestling Observer Radio



So everyone touting this "demo" need to stop believing that it's the end all be all because it's not. WWE are usually #1 in the demos most weeks of the year but yet they still get way lower ad rates than shows that has a lower demo. What does this mean? It means like I said earlier "demos" for wrestling is meaningless since the fanbase for wrestling is undesirable. If Snowpiercer for example got 830,000 viewers and 0.23 rating while Dynamite got 890,000 viewers with 0.35 rating, advertisers would still pay more to put ads on for Snowpiercer than they ever would for Dynamite because that 0.23 rating for Snowpiercer is more desirable because those people are middle class folks with a ton of disposable income. Dynamite's 0.35 rating wouldn't mean anything to advertisers because most of them are low income people.


----------



## One Shed

So that is 41 companies with ads including advertising for themselves. I would love to compare it to WWE, but I do not hate myself enough to watch RAW again to do it. My guess is they have similar commercials. I definitely remember Burger King and Skittles being sponsors. Smackdown literally has a Domino's Pizza commercial on right now and they suck even worse than Papa John's.

I will try to be really fair and break it down like this:

*Targeting young (defining as 18-34). I am including all the cheap fast food/junk food, the cheep beer, video game, low brow comedy movie, cheap wireless services etc:*

AEW commercial
Blue Moon bitch drink
Cheeze-It snack
Consumer Cellular (Cheap wireless provider)
Cricket Wireless (Cheap wireless provider)
Cypunk game for Xbox
Go-Big Show (Show Cody is on)
Half Brothers Movie (Looks like a typical, dumb American comedy)
Hardee's
HBO Max (cord cutters)
Jared (cheap jewelry)
KFC
Kind chocolate snack
Lasor Wulf (some cartoon)
Lego
M&M candy
Miller Lite "beer"
Papa John's "pizza"
PassItOn.com
Wendy's

*General audiences of all ages. Mainstream stuff that could appeal to everyone. This is your decent food (POPEYE'S), middle of the road jewelry, technology everyone uses, popular live action shows/movies, etc:*

Fast and the Furious 6 (movie airing after Dynamite ends)
Kay Jewelers
Nutri-grain bar
Popeye's (Awesome chicken)
Samsung Galaxy S20 phone
Snowpiercer Season 2
Star Wars movie marathon on TNT
TNT commercial for themselves
Touch of Modern
Verizon Wireless
Wonder Woman 1984
Your Honor

*Mainly for older people. No one under 80 cares about the post office. No one under 50 thinks too much about insurance, at least not other than "I guess I need car insurance, 'hey mom, which one should I get?'" The cancer drug and the bed wetting protector go without saying.*

American Family Insurance
Bounce (laundry product)
Geico Insurance
Keytrude (some drug for lung cancer)
Progressive Insurance
Pure Wick (Helps people sleep without peeing themselves in bed)
State Farm insurance
US Postal Service
Visionworks


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I'm going to throw it out there but wrestling is best as a local TV thing that can get local sponsors and advertiser's on board.

Domino's might not want a national ad campaign on wrestling but Tony the pizza guy who sees that the local wrestling show is popular might buy 20 ads for 2 grand...


----------



## One Shed

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'm going to throw it out there but wrestling is best as a local TV thing that can get local sponsors and advertiser's on board.
> 
> Domino's might not want a national ad campaign on wrestling but Tony the pizza guy who sees that the local wrestling show is popular might buy 20 ads for 2 grand...


Yeah, there was only one slot for a local ad. It was something generic about my state, not anything like Tony's pizza down the street sadly.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Two Sheds said:


> Yeah, there was only one slot for a local ad. It was something generic about my state, not anything like Tony's pizza down the street sadly.


I'm talking indies mainly. It'd be hard to sell wrestling to advertiser's on a national level I think. Local much easier


----------



## One Shed

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'm talking indies mainly. It'd be hard to sell wrestling to advertiser's on a national level I think. Local much easier


Every now and again...but rare. Man do I miss Slim Jim's Halloween Havoc though. Ooooohhhh YEAH!


----------



## The Wood

Ozell Gray said:


> Also to piggyback off of this even uncle Dave said years ago that the "demo" doesn't matter when it comes to wrestling but he's of course walked that back since AEW has come on the scene.
> 
> On last night's Observer Radio, Dave mentioned that he recently got eyes on WWE's ad rates, and he mentioned that despite their viewership, and market share (numbers most other cable shows would love), the ad rates they get are still fairly terrible.
> He didn't give any specifics on prices, but put forth that the rates are significantly less than that of the UFC, which already gets lower rates than regular cable shows because of the violence factor that comes along with it. This is even more significant because the WWE does a million more viewers each week on average than the UFC, and even more than that for most cable shows which get those higher ad rates.
> Dave posits that the WWE gets 1/10th the ad rates than that of a regular cable show, which is down significantly from the past when the WWE would get about half the cost in ad rates than the standard show.
> 
> Following this through to TNA, he speaks about ad rates being one of the big factors in Destination America dumping the promotion last year, and may be souring Pop TV on TNA right now. According to PWInsider, the ad rates for Impact are about $350 per 30 second spot, which is very, very low. And because of the revenue share aspect of the TV deal, Pop only sees half of that.
> So, long story short: Wrestling fans still have a reputation for being cheap and advertisers aren't willing to spend any real money because of that. Vince's 30 year plan to calling pro wrestling "sports entertainment" has done nothing except bother his actual fans.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrestling Observer Radio
> 
> 
> 
> So everyone touting this "demo" need to stop believing that it's the end all be all because it's not. WWE are usually #1 in the demos most weeks of the year but yet they still get way lower ad rates than shows that has a lower demo. What does this mean? It means like I said earlier "demos" for wrestling is meaningless since the fanbase for wrestling is undesirable. If Snowpiercer for example got 830,000 viewers and 0.23 rating while Dynamite got 890,000 viewers with 0.35 rating, advertisers would still pay more to put ads on for Snowpiercer than they ever would for Dynamite because that 0.23 rating for Snowpiercer is more desirable because those people are middle class folks with a ton of disposable income. Dynamite's 0.35 rating wouldn't mean anything to advertisers because most of them are low income people.


Excellent post.


----------



## One Shed

Ozell Gray said:


> Also to piggyback off of this even uncle Dave said years ago that the "demo" doesn't matter when it comes to wrestling but he's of course walked that back since AEW has come on the scene.
> 
> On last night's Observer Radio, Dave mentioned that he recently got eyes on WWE's ad rates, and he mentioned that despite their viewership, and market share (numbers most other cable shows would love), the ad rates they get are still fairly terrible.
> He didn't give any specifics on prices, but put forth that the rates are significantly less than that of the UFC, which already gets lower rates than regular cable shows because of the violence factor that comes along with it. This is even more significant because the WWE does a million more viewers each week on average than the UFC, and even more than that for most cable shows which get those higher ad rates.
> Dave posits that the WWE gets 1/10th the ad rates than that of a regular cable show, which is down significantly from the past when the WWE would get about half the cost in ad rates than the standard show.
> 
> Following this through to TNA, he speaks about ad rates being one of the big factors in Destination America dumping the promotion last year, and may be souring Pop TV on TNA right now. According to PWInsider, the ad rates for Impact are about $350 per 30 second spot, which is very, very low. And because of the revenue share aspect of the TV deal, Pop only sees half of that.
> So, long story short: Wrestling fans still have a reputation for being cheap and advertisers aren't willing to spend any real money because of that. Vince's 30 year plan to calling pro wrestling "sports entertainment" has done nothing except bother his actual fans.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrestling Observer Radio
> 
> 
> 
> So everyone touting this "demo" need to stop believing that it's the end all be all because it's not. WWE are usually #1 in the demos most weeks of the year but yet they still get way lower ad rates than shows that has a lower demo. What does this mean? It means like I said earlier "demos" for wrestling is meaningless since the fanbase for wrestling is undesirable. If Snowpiercer for example got 830,000 viewers and 0.23 rating while Dynamite got 890,000 viewers with 0.35 rating, advertisers would still pay more to put ads on for Snowpiercer than they ever would for Dynamite because that 0.23 rating for Snowpiercer is more desirable because those people are middle class folks with a ton of disposable income. Dynamite's 0.35 rating wouldn't mean anything to advertisers because most of them are low income people.


$350? Now I want to buy an add that just flashes tell 'em @bdon for 30 seconds.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Two Sheds said:


> $350? Now I want to buy an add that just flashes tell 'em @bdon for 30 seconds.


I'll chuck in 20


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> $350? Now I want to buy an add that just flashes tell 'em @bdon for 30 seconds.


TELL EM, @Two Sheds !!!


----------



## Klitschko

Two Sheds said:


> $350? Now I want to buy an add that just flashes tell 'em @bdon for 30 seconds.


I would pitch in money for that. 25 bucks from me.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Klitschko said:


> I would pitch in money for that. 25 bucks from me.


@bdon is wealthy. I'll volunteer him for 150 and add an extra 5 myself. We're at 200 fam


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> @bdon is wealthy. I'll volunteer him for 150 and add an extra 5 myself. We're at 200 fam


If we know how to make this happen, I’ll send the $350 to whoever that can make it happen! Haha


----------



## Klitschko

You better appreciate this @bdon because as wrestling fans, thats like a months worth of salary for us lol.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> If we know how to make this happen, I’ll send the $350 to whoever that can make it happen! Haha


We need to get in touch with whoever the fuck airs Impact


----------



## Pippen94

If demos not important why does ratings site rank shows by 18 - 49??


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> If demos not important why does ratings site rank shows by 18 - 49??


Why do gossip rags have misleading headlines? Are you telling me that Megan isn’t really leaving Harry?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> If demos not important why does ratings site rank shows by 18 - 49??


Demo is important. Wrestling fans aren't though. Nobody wants to promote to us


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> Demo is important. Wrestling fans aren't though. Nobody wants to promote to us


Why does TV pay so much for wrestling then??


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Why does TV pay so much for wrestling then??


It doesn’t.


----------



## tower_

Pippen94 said:


> Why does TV pay so much for wrestling then??


Cable's dying. Live TV is pretty much the only thing keeping it on life support. Wrestling has famously always been worth less to networks because their fans are poor but for now they have a niche where even getting a small number of people to watch is better than anything except sports and political news.

Once it actually dies they better have a plan because their numbers will not stack up when compared to the shows that make bank on the streaming services


----------



## Pippen94

tower_ said:


> Cable's dying. Live TV is pretty much the only thing keeping it on life support. Wrestling has famously always been worth less to networks because their fans are poor but for now they have a niche where even getting a small number of people to watch is better than anything except sports and political news.
> 
> Once it actually dies they better have a plan because their numbers will not stack up when compared to the shows that make bank on the streaming services


Next stage is streaming services competing with each other & vs cable for live TV events


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Next stage is streaming services competing with each other & vs cable for live TV events


I would not be surprised when the NFL TV deals come up for bidding, Netflix and Amazon do not make a big play for a piece.

I have not watched anything other than live sports on Cable/Satellite in well over ten years.


----------



## tower_

I'm actually curious what AEW would look like in that model. There used to be these TV shows that would basically run for half a year - 24 episodes, hour long each - and, as far as I know, theyre been pretty much eliminated by streaming services. The way it goes now is you put more money in per episode for a higher quality product and you only do 8 or 10 eps a season. This stuff isnt supposed to stay in culture long, and it isnt designed to - because by then there's another new show out. I think weekly wrestling appointment viewing would suffer similarly

Vince at least had the right idea with his own Network where he has the archives. AEW doesnt have that, and I think the model would be more suited to stuff like Lucha Underground or the "Cinematic Match" shit.


----------



## The Wood

Eventually everything will be pushed towards streaming services. AEW will end up on B/R Live, SmackDown will end up on the WWE Network/Disney+/ESPN+. Raw will end up on Peacock, etc. Eventually these products will need to come together in some sort of plans and we’ll have a new streaming version of cable, where the apps basically work as channels.

It wouldn’t surprise me if WWE PPV ends up on Netflix at some point, or some sort of Netflix Live. As Two Sheds said, at some point Netflix and Amazon are going to get into the NFL game when the rights come up.


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> I would not be surprised when the NFL TV deals come up for bidding, Netflix and Amazon do not make a big play for a piece.
> 
> I have not watched anything other than live sports on Cable/Satellite in well over ten years.


When aew signed with TNT there was immediate talk of content or 2nd show being on HBO max - that will happen at some point


----------



## Pippen94

tower_ said:


> I'm actually curious what AEW would look like in that model. There used to be these TV shows that would basically run for half a year - 24 episodes, hour long each - and, as far as I know, theyre been pretty much eliminated by streaming services. The way it goes now is you put more money in per episode for a higher quality product and you only do 8 or 10 eps a season. This stuff isnt supposed to stay in culture long, and it isnt designed to - because by then there's another new show out. I think weekly wrestling appointment viewing would suffer similarly
> 
> Vince at least had the right idea with his own Network where he has the archives. AEW doesnt have that, and I think the model would be more suited to stuff like Lucha Underground or the "Cinematic Match" shit.


Aew will look like what fans want. If cinematic matches draw well they will happen. As we saw this week there's still appetite for traditional big match wrestling


----------



## Pippen94

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1335033822946054144


----------



## bdon

Pippen94 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1335033822946054144


This, @Pippen94 , is why you should want AEW to come with ONLY the heavy-hitters next Wednesday. Page, Cody, Omega, Mox, MJF, Jericho not doing comedy, taped vignette from PAC, something hot with the Bucks, Miro doing anything not involved with gaming, etc. 

There are new eyes that are going to be on the product that haven’t even HEARD about AEW until Sting showed up Wednesday, so they had not even had a chance to gain an emotional connection with AEW’s top athletes. Give them your very best to keep them interested enough to come back for another week and another week then you begin sprinkling in more of the Sammy, OC, Sabian, Jungle Boy segments to make those new fans “sit through” the less appealing characters to get to their favorites.

Before long, you have roped them into gaining even an emotional connection with the lesser talents.

But yeah. I’m not at all surprised that their 18-49 demo was higher than NXT’s total. Having the Sting debut/entrance just prior to the moment you’re about to put over Kenny as new champion and running a cross-promotional angle? Couldn’t have played it better, IMO.

But now comes the hard part: keeping even a percentage of the new eyes to raise the floor of your regular audience from 700k to 850k, raising your ceiling from 900k to 1.1m, etc.

They have the ability. Let’s see what they do.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> That’s not what I’m saying at all. I don’t know if you’re not comprehending what I’m saying or are deliberately twisting.
> 
> *I’m saying that I’m willing to bet that TNT are not selling those ad slots at the same rate they would if another property were drawing the exact same numbers.* You can only charge what people are willing to pay. Some advertisers just don’t want to be associated with wrestling, full-stop. Hell, some networks don’t want to be associated with wrestling.
> 
> Brand image is important to people trying to sell anything. So much more goes into that than the demo. Especially in 2020 for a whole range of cultural and economic reasons. This is why it’s possible for even hot properties to lose sponsorship deals and the like.
> 
> This idea that the demo rules all is smoke and mirrors.
> 
> 
> 
> Great post. Honestly have nothing to add to that other than it makes perfect logical sense.


[/QUOTE]

1. you have no proof for your ‘feeling’ - so it is baseless

2. why in the world will they then renew it? Its show business, not show friends

please, for the love of al that is holy, understand the price of the ad is determined by

channel
Timeslot
Demo

nothing else - so it does not matter if it is mom and pop bedwetter diaper ads or Yeezy’s - they pay the same for the spot

the content of the programming has nothing to do with the price of the ratecard

the only time the content enters into it, is when the marketing manager decided ‘this content fits with my brand’

but that does not change the price

Edit) and if they cannot sell 100% of the spots, then that also affects the rate card - but that will also lead to cancellation


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Two Sheds said:


> I would not be surprised when the NFL TV deals come up for bidding, Netflix and Amazon do not make a big play for a piece.
> 
> I have not watched anything other than live sports on Cable/Satellite in well over ten years.


Amazon will imo. They bid on premier league games and have quite a few important matches.


----------



## bdon

I guess the SuperBowl doesn’t matter. These dumbass companies are just paying $5m for 30 second ads out of the kindness of their hearts.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Klitschko said:


> Yes, for sure guys. These are all the things I saw for people under 30/lower income.
> 
> Pizza hut
> Cyber punk video game
> Cheap jewelry
> M&M candy
> Cheese it snacks
> Popeyes
> Half brothers movie
> Samsung galaxy phone
> Lego
> Fast and furious
> Go big show - only aew fans will watch
> Miller lite beer
> Blue moon beer
> KFC


that is a good list of ads

def skews younger


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> Wonder Woman is a Warner property though. I don’t think they’d pay for advertising. At best Dynamite is just being used as a clothesline to air that laundry.


intercompany still pays - its an amazing money washing / tax reclaim method

they dont get that spots for free


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Two Sheds said:


> Things are different in different countries, but no one is making you buy life insurance in the US.
> 
> I do not know any single people that have it and most companies I have worked for have it provided as a benefit (usually 1x or 2x your annual salary). I have never bought supplemental life insurance but I would if I had kids.


have you bought a house?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Two Sheds said:


> Well, I took one for the team and documented the commercials for the week. I never watch commercials so this was painful. The only one that did anything for me was Popeye's and now I want that chicken tonight. I am NOT doing RAW though. I refuse to watch that again.
> 
> First Break:
> 
> Cricket Wireless - 15 seconds
> Your Honor (Show on Showtime) - 30 seconds
> Hardee's - 15 Seconds
> Pure Wick (Helps people sleep without peeing themselves in bed) - 60 seconds
> Snowpiercer Season 2 - 30 seconds
> 
> Second Break (Picture in Picture):
> 
> Go-Big Show (Show Cody is on) - 30 seconds
> Half Brothers Movie - 15 seconds
> Cheeze-It snack - 15 Seconds
> Geico - 30 seconds
> Kind chocolate snack - 15 seconds
> Blue Moon bitch drink - 15 seconds
> Papa John's "pizza" - 15 seconds
> Kay Jewelers - 15 seconds
> Star Wars movie marathon on TNT - 15 seconds
> 
> Third Break (Partial Picture in Picture):
> 
> Cypunk game for Xbox - 30 seconds
> Wendy's - 30 seconds
> Visionworks - 15 seconds
> Nutri-grain bar - 15 seconds
> (Picture in Picture ends)
> Wonder Woman 1984 - 30 seconds
> Touch of Modern - 30 seconds
> PassItOn.com - 30 seconds
> 
> Fourth Break:
> 
> Cheeze-It snack - 15 Seconds
> Jared (cheap jewelry) - 15 seconds
> Hardee's - 15 seconds
> US Postal Service - 15 seconds
> PassItOn.com - 60 seconds
> Verizon Wireless - 30 seconds
> Lasor Wulf (some cartoon) - 20 seconds
> Snowpiercer Season 2 - 20 seconds
> KFC - 15 seconds
> Cricket Wireless - 15 seconds
> Local commerical (This was local to my state/city) - 30 seconds
> American Family Insurance - 30 seconds
> State Farm insurance - 15 seconds
> M&M candy - 15 seconds
> Bounce (laundry product) - 30 seconds
> 
> Fifth Break:
> 
> Miller Lite "beer" - 15 seconds
> Jared (cheap jewelry) - 15 seconds
> TNT commercial for themselves - 20 seconds
> Touch of Modern - 30 seconds
> PassItOn.com - 30 seconds
> Cheeze-It snack - 15 Seconds
> Hardee's - 15 seconds
> Go-Big Show (Show Cody is on) - 30 seconds
> 
> Main Event begins
> 
> Sixth Break:
> 
> Popeye's (Awesome chicken) - 15 seconds (now I want Popeye's)
> Half Brothers Movie - 15 seconds
> US Postal Service - 15 seconds
> Nutri-grain bar - 15 seconds
> Consumer Cellular (Cheap wireless provider) - 60 seconds
> Progressive Insurance - 30 seconds
> Verizon Wireless - 30 seconds
> AEW commercial - 10 seconds
> HBO Max - 10 seconds
> 
> Seventh Break (Picture in Picture:
> 
> Snowpiercer Season 2 - 15 seconds
> State Farm insurance - 15 seconds
> Cheeze-It snack - 15 Seconds
> Your Honor (Show on Showtime) - 30 seconds
> Keytrude (some drug for lung cancer) - 90 seconds! Geez
> 
> Eighth Break (Picture in Picture:
> 
> State Farm insurance - 30 seconds
> Samsung Galaxy S20 phone - 30 seconds
> Go-Big Show (Show Cody is on) - 20 seconds
> Kay Jewelers - 15 seconds
> Half Brothers movie - 15 seconds
> Lego - 30 seconds
> Fast and the Furious 6 (movie airing after Dynamite ends) - 20 seconds


that is a great list

everything at the start and the end of each ad break tells you everything you need to know

it looks like a 75% sold rate and 25% of ‘we’ll give you a discount on unsold’ ads


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> have you bought a house?


Bought two in the last 5 years, along with losing on a 12-unit apartment building shortly.

Life insurance is absolutely not a requirement.


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> This, @Pippen94 , is why you should want AEW to come with ONLY the heavy-hitters next Wednesday. Page, Cody, Omega, Mox, MJF, Jericho not doing comedy, taped vignette from PAC, something hot with the Bucks, Miro doing anything not involved with gaming, etc.
> 
> There are new eyes that are going to be on the product that haven’t even HEARD about AEW until Sting showed up Wednesday, so they had not even had a chance to gain an emotional connection with AEW’s top athletes. Give them your very best to keep them interested enough to come back for another week and another week then you begin sprinkling in more of the Sammy, OC, Sabian, Jungle Boy segments to make those new fans “sit through” the less appealing characters to get to their favorites.
> 
> Before long, you have roped them into gaining even an emotional connection with the lesser talents.
> 
> But yeah. I’m not at all surprised that their 18-49 demo was higher than NXT’s total. Having the Sting debut/entrance just prior to the moment you’re about to put over Kenny as new champion and running a cross-promotional angle? Couldn’t have played it better, IMO.
> 
> But now comes the hard part: keeping even a percentage of the new eyes to raise the floor of your regular audience from 700k to 850k, raising your ceiling from 900k to 1.1m, etc.
> 
> They have the ability. Let’s see what they do.


Admittedly getting 1 million viewers looks nice but it's irrelevant not just because the demo is only thing that matter - it is.
...Because we all know a show with Sting billed for first time plus Moxley, Jericho & Miro will do great number, but popping ratings with big name debuts is not sustainable - you have to keep doing it.

To survive long term aew needs to create own stars that fans will become invested in. That's why aew showcases different talent on bigger shows & will continue to do so.

As far as who gets showcased should be based on crowd reaction & data not preconceived notion what wrestler should be like


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> that is a great list
> 
> everything at the start and the end of each ad break tells you everything you need to know
> 
> it looks like a 75% sold rate and 25% of ‘we’ll give you a discount on unsold’ ads


Great insight


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Two Sheds said:


> $350? Now I want to buy an add that just flashes tell 'em @bdon for 30 seconds.


do you think an ad on TNT in primetime costs 350?

add a zero for a 3rd ad break middle spot of 15 sec most likely

and even then, they won't take your money


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Last Raw live thread 13 pages
Last SmackDown live thread 4 pages
NXT forum seems dead

Dynamite live thread currently 58 pages

Yeeowch! 

Going by the newly devised 'nUmBEr oF pAgeS on A ThrEad' metric WWE may as well go into liquidation and AEW must be the new industry leader

Lolz


----------



## bdon

Pippen94 said:


> Admittedly getting 1 million viewers looks nice but it's irrelevant not just because the demo is only thing that matter - it is.
> ...Because we all know a show with Sting billed for first time plus Moxley, Jericho & Miro will do great number, but popping ratings with big name debuts is not sustainable - you have to keep doing it.
> 
> To survive long term aew needs to create own stars that fans will become invested in. That's why aew showcases different talent on bigger shows & will continue to do so.
> 
> As far as who gets showcased should be based on crowd reaction & data not preconceived notion what wrestler should be like


Goddamn it is like talking to a brick wall with you. Try following along with me, Bub.

You pop the rating cherry with Sting. There is a genius level booking decision for having Sting debut to a surprise entrance just prior to Moxley and Omega:

You now have a lot of new fans who have never seen ANY of these guys, so you have your heavy-hitters ready to showcase what you’re about. This would be your Moxley/Omega story, ie the money feud on your roster: IWCm’s #1 WWE superstar vs IWC’s #1 Indy Darling.

They capitalized on Sting by selling lapsed fans on the Omega/Mox match, effectively showing a lot of lapsed fans the Indy Darling that none of them have ever seen. Someone who moves and wrestles in a way they haven’t seen. And they capitalized on that by going a step further and dropping the hammer on the Impact angle.

Now that you have those viewers invested in two, maybe 3 segments with Sting and Mox/Omega, you do something with Page, Cody, and the like. No, you aren’t going to maintain ALL of those lapsed fans, but you can maintain SOME of them and to do so, you MUST put your best wrestlers out there for THOSE bigger shows. Once the current crop of stars are “stars” in the eyes of those new lapsed fans, you don’t need a Sting to pop the rating and get eyes on an Orange Cassidy or a Kip Sabian or Jungle Boy or whoever, because you have effectively raised the low end viewership total to 850k, which used to be the ceiling.

If you’re lucky, you figure out a way to pop the rating again in a year or two and raise your average range from 850k to 1m to a range in the 1.1m - 1.4m.

No one is saying you stick with only the current stars, but you must use the current stars when you expect an unusual spike in viewrship to keep some of those viewers. With the new set of STEADY eyes, you CONDITION them to see the youth as more than just no-name jobbers.

This shit ain’t hard, man.


----------



## The Wood

Does anyone for one second believe that other factors don’t affect ad rates?


----------



## kamaro011

Pentagon Senior said:


> Last Raw live thread 13 pages
> Last SmackDown live thread 4 pages
> NXT forum seems dead
> 
> Dynamite live thread currently 58 pages
> 
> Yeeowch!
> 
> Going by the newly devised 'nUmBEr oF pAgeS on A ThrEad' metric WWE may as well go into liquidation and AEW must be the new industry leader
> 
> Lolz


AEW is not industry leader.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

kamaro011 said:


> AEW is not industry leader.


Are you telling me number of pages in a thread is NOT a reliable metric for success? 🤔


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Pentagon Senior said:


> Last Raw live thread 13 pages
> Last SmackDown live thread 4 pages
> NXT forum seems dead
> 
> Dynamite live thread currently 58 pages
> 
> Yeeowch!
> 
> Going by the newly devised 'nUmBEr oF pAgeS on A ThrEad' metric WWE may as well go into liquidation and AEW must be the new industry leader
> 
> Lolz


AEW lead on the internet over current dayWWE that’s for sure.


----------



## kamaro011

Pentagon Senior said:


> Are you telling me number of pages in a thread is NOT a reliable metric for success? 🤔


Are you really serious about your post that i quoted before?

I mean really? your basing the entire pro wrestling industry metric of popularity based on obscure and dying wrestling forum (not just this one but wrestling forum on general)?

Your must be joking.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

kamaro011 said:


> Are you really serious about your post that i quoted before?
> 
> I mean really? your basing the entire pro wrestling industry metric of popularity based on obscure and dying wrestling forum (not just this one but wrestling forum on general)?
> 
> Your must be joking.


he was joking

its a callback to some prior posts of last week


----------



## kamaro011

LifeInCattleClass said:


> he was joking
> 
> its a callback to some prior posts of last week


Yeah that's why AEW must not listen and market their product to the general wrestling forum on Internet, most if not all of them is just smarkiest wrestling who voices loudest on Internet but in reality is just a minority that leads to a current stagnation of Audience rating views.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

kamaro011 said:


> Are you really serious about your post that i quoted before?
> 
> I mean really? your basing the entire pro wrestling industry metric of popularity based on obscure and dying wrestling forum (not just this one but wrestling forum on general)?
> 
> Your must be joking.


Actually, now you put it like that I realise how silly it would be to use that as a measure. Thanks and no hard feelings 🙏


----------



## Pentagon Senior

LifeInCattleClass said:


> he was joking
> 
> its a callback to some prior posts of last week


No, I was deadly serious. I had Dynamite down as being 77% more popular than Raw and 93% more popular than Smackdown 🤯

I've since seen the error of my ways and the silliness of the metric I used 😔


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pentagon Senior said:


> No, I was deadly serious. I had Dynamite down as being 77% more popular than Raw and 93% more popular than Smackdown 🤯
> 
> I've since seen the error of my ways and the silliness of the metric I used 😔


ahhh, I am glad you saw the light!


----------



## Klitschko

Pentagon Senior said:


> Last Raw live thread 13 pages
> Last SmackDown live thread 4 pages
> NXT forum seems dead
> 
> Dynamite live thread currently 58 pages
> 
> Yeeowch!
> 
> Going by the newly devised 'nUmBEr oF pAgeS on A ThrEad' metric WWE may as well go into liquidation and AEW must be the new industry leader
> 
> Lolz


Yea but couldn't you also say what people in the weekly Dynamite thread say when Dynamite doesn't get a lot of pages? Raw and Smackdown didnt get a lot of pages because there was nothing to complain about and they were great shows lol? 

Anyways, next week I'm predicting 850k. They won't hit 900k or a million, but I also predicted 850 for this last week and I was wrong so who knows.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Klitschko said:


> Yea but couldn't you also say what people in the weekly Dynamite thread say when Dynamite doesn't get a lot of pages? Raw and Smackdown didnt get a lot of pages because there was nothing to complain about and they were great shows lol?
> 
> Anyways, next week I'm predicting 850k. They won't hit 900k or a million, but I also predicted 850 for this last week and I was wrong so who knows.


Yes mate - see above, I have learnt the error of my ways! 🤣 I should never have listened to our resident experts god damnit. 

For next week, I will predict somewhere close to 1m but just below, say 975k and 0.40 demo. 

But more importantly, how many pages will the live thread get? 😝


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Klitschko said:


> Yea but couldn't you also say what people in the weekly Dynamite thread say when Dynamite doesn't get a lot of pages? Raw and Smackdown didnt get a lot of pages because there was nothing to complain about and they were great shows lol?


This. Simple explanation is that RAW and Smackdown were so good that nobody had anything to complain about therefore the pages were low.

All kidding aside AEW getting a huge amount of pages actually proves me right. My logic is that it gets low pages when interest is low whilst others argue that haters drove people away and rah rah rah.

58 pages on a big exciting show proves I'm right. It's certainly not a gauge of overall interest but certainly a good gauge of forum interest.

Another home run for the Chippah


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> do you think an ad on TNT in primetime costs 350?
> 
> add a zero for a 3rd ad break middle spot of 15 sec most likely
> 
> and even then, they won't take your money


I was responding to the report that it was around $350 for a 15 second spot during Impact on AXS TV. Nothing about TNT.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Two Sheds said:


> I was responding to the report that it was around $350 for a 15 second spot during Impact on AXS TV. Nothing about TNT.


ah, fair play

i misunderstood


----------



## Ozell Gray

Two Sheds said:


> I was responding to the report that it was around $350 for a 15 second spot during Impact on AXS TV. Nothing about TNT.



It was when they were on Pop tv in 2018 that costed $350.


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> This. *Simple explanation is that RAW and Smackdown were so good that nobody had anything to complain about therefore the pages were low.*
> 
> All kidding aside AEW getting a huge amount of pages actually proves me right. My logic is that it gets low pages when interest is low whilst others argue that haters drove people away and rah rah rah.
> 
> 58 pages on a big exciting show proves I'm right. It's certainly not a gauge of overall interest but certainly a good gauge of forum interest.
> 
> Another home run for the Chippah


LOL


----------



## One Shed

Ozell Gray said:


> It was when they were on Pop tv in 2018 that costed $350.


Ah, OK. We missed our opportunity then


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Chip Chipperson said:


> All kidding aside AEW getting a huge amount of pages actually proves me right. My logic is that it gets low pages when interest is low whilst others argue that haters drove people away and rah rah rah.
> 
> 58 pages on a big exciting show proves I'm right. It's certainly not a gauge of overall interest but certainly a good gauge of forum interest.
> 
> Another home run for the Chippah


Hurrah for Chipper 😂

But hang on, it IS a valid metric? 
So my comparison stands after all? 

AEW "industry leader" (*based on page count)


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pentagon Senior said:


> Hurrah for Chipper 😂
> 
> But hang on, it IS a valid metric?
> So my comparison stands after all?
> 
> AEW "industry leader" (*based on page count)


Tell em BigBoiAnalyticsPentagonSenior


----------



## Pentagon Senior

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Tell em *BigBoi*AnalyticsPentagonSenior


You been spying on me? 🤣

I will - I'll flippin tell em!!! 
They can't have it both ways now can they? What's the world coming to??? 

Grrrrr


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pentagon Senior said:


> Hurrah for Chipper 😂
> 
> But hang on, it IS a valid metric?
> So my comparison stands after all?
> 
> AEW "industry leader" (*based on page count)


It's a valid gauge of interest for the forum and forum interest only.

Half right but half right is still technically right my friend.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Chip Chipperson said:


> It's a valid gauge of interest for the forum and forum interest only.
> 
> Half right but half right is still technically right my friend.


The half that supports your argument is correct and the half that supports my argument is incorrect - amirite? 😏


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> It's a valid gauge of interest for the forum and forum interest only.
> 
> *Half right but half right is still technically right my friend.*


lol.... this explains *SO* much


----------



## 3venflow

Have the quarter hours been posted yet?

Image below via Wrestlenomics.

8:30 to 8:45 saw a huge spike to 940k (553k key demo), that was before Sting came out wasn't it? 9:00 to 9:15, which is when I think Sting did appear, rose to 942k. It dropped a little after but Kenny vs. Mox regained a good amount of viewers and the show peaked in the 9:30 to 9:45 quarter hour.


----------



## rbl85

So at one point (Q7) AEW had more 18-49 viewers than NXT total viewers ?


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> So at one point (Q7) AEW had more 18-49 viewers than NXT total viewers ?


Yes. That’s the Sting Effect, and precisely why they MUST knock it out of the park this coming week, which I am growing more hopeful they can do. Don’t advertise Cody, Darby, Team Taz, Moxley, Page, etc, but you better believe I would have them all over this show.

To steal a line from Bischoff, “Under promise, over deliver!”


----------



## Dark Emperor

3venflow said:


> Have the quarter hours been posted yet?
> 
> Image below via Wrestlenomics.
> 
> 8:30 to 8:45 saw a huge spike to 940k (553k key demo), that was before Sting came out wasn't it? 9:00 to 9:15, which is when I think Sting did appear, rose to 942k. It dropped a little after but Kenny vs. Mox regained a good amount of viewers and the show peaked in the 9:30 to 9:45 quarter hour.
> 
> View attachment 94597


Damn, terrible numbers. At no point during the show did they get 1m viewers, peaked at 952k. Even for a world title match between their 2 biggest stars/draw. Which was also boosted by Sting hype on social media.

They must be pretty disappointed, even Mox is no longer drawing. No chance of drawing 1m next week. A few thousands will tune in for Sting then tune straight back out.

Remember this a company when ratings went down the week after Tyson was on their show. The same Tyson just drew 1.2m US PPV buys costing $50 a pop last week for exhibition boxing. AEW is not some hip product and a 61yr old geriatric Sting is not bringing them a wave of fans.


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> Yes. That’s the Sting Effect, and precisely why they MUST knock it out of the park this coming week, which I am growing more hopeful they can do. Don’t advertise Cody, Darby, Team Taz, Moxley, Page, etc, but you better believe I would have them all over this show.
> 
> To steal a line from Bischoff, “Under promise, over deliver!”


Except demo almost greater than wwe for entire show including before sting & after.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Pippen94 said:


> Except demo almost greater than wwe for entire show including before sting & after.


Why do you only care about the demo. Why don't AEW fans admit the rating is disappointing for such a massive show. I remember them getting higher than 912k on several occasion this year alone. Stop focusing on demo to divert attention.

The focus on demo only started when Meltzer realised they is AEW's strongest area. He has never mentioned demo as a good thing when bashing WWE for ever declining ratings.

Smackdown is no1 in demo every single week and no one pays attention to it as we look at overall numbers to see how it's trending. If AEW started doing high viewership but lower demos, the focus will suddenly change back to viewership and how well they are doing.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Dark Emperor said:


> Why do you only care about the demo. Why don't AEW fans admit the rating is disappointing for such a massive show. I remember them getting higher than 912k on several occasion this year alone. Stop focusing on demo to divert attention.
> 
> The focus on demo only started when Meltzer realised they is AEW's strongest area. He has never mentioned demo as a good thing when bashing WWE for ever declining ratings.
> 
> Smackdown is no1 in demo every single week and no one pays attention to it as we look at overall numbers to see how it's trending. If AEW started doing high viewership but lower demos, the focus will suddenly change back to viewership and how well they are doing.


Yeah, when AEW does high overall this board forget about demo


----------



## Pippen94

Dark Emperor said:


> Why do you only care about the demo. Why don't AEW fans admit the rating is disappointing for such a massive show. I remember them getting higher than 912k on several occasion this year alone. Stop focusing on demo to divert attention.
> 
> The focus on demo only started when Meltzer realised they is AEW's strongest area. He has never mentioned demo as a good thing when bashing WWE for ever declining ratings.
> 
> Smackdown is no1 in demo every single week and no one pays attention to it as we look at overall numbers to see how it's trending. If AEW started doing high viewership but lower demos, the focus will suddenly change back to viewership and how well they are doing.


You notice smack down generally lowest in total viewers also?? Wonder why fox keeps it on - anything to do with demo??


----------



## Dark Emperor

Pippen94 said:


> You notice smack down generally lowest in total viewers also?? Wonder why fox keeps it on - anything to do with demo??


Youre just trolling, Smackdown is very high in total viewers also. AEW average viewership is only 35% of what Smackdown gets.

The point is the demo has become a deflection tactic. Without Meltzer telling us suddenly this year how Important the demo was. We’d have all looked at that 912k number for such a massive show and admitted it wasn’t good.


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> Actually, now you put it like that I realise how silly it would be to use that as a measure. Thanks and no hard feelings 🙏


I haven’t gone through the whole thread, but I wanted to thank you for speaking sense.


----------



## Pippen94

Dark Emperor said:


> Youre just trolling, Smackdown is very high in total viewers also. AEW average viewership is only 35% of what Smackdown gets.
> 
> The point is the demo has become a deflection tactic. Without Meltzer telling us suddenly this year how Important the demo was. We’d have all looked at that 912k number for such a massive show and admitted it wasn’t good.


Smack down finished dead last on network tv for total viewers for time slot!!!!!






SHOWBUZZDAILY FRIDAY NETWORK SCORECARD – 12.4.2020 | Showbuzz Daily







www.showbuzzdaily.com


----------



## DammitChrist

kamaro011 said:


> Yeah that's why AEW must not listen and market their product to the general wrestling forum on Internet, most if not all of them is just smarkiest wrestling who voices loudest on Internet but in reality is just a minority that leads to a current stagnation of Audience rating views.


Jeez, I really don’t get your hatred over enthusiastic wrestling fans or ‘smarks.’ 

You do realize that those wrestling fans are a big reason why WWE still maintains their viewership, and why AEW’s ratings continue to hold up well.

AEW should TOTALLY listen to the passionate wrestling/‘smarks.’ They shouldn’t listen to the anti-smarks (like in this case) since they’re the vocal minority. 

The company would risk losing viewers if they start listening to the anti-smarks by pissing off the wrestling fans with questionable booking decisions (such as keeping Orange Cassidy off TV permanently or depushing the heck out of Cody Rhodes or Chris Jericho by jobbing on AEW Dark).


----------



## K4L318

Omega's 18-49 quarter hour outdrew NXT?


----------



## bdon

While I am not one to bang on the demo stuff, @The Wood , is it not somewhat shocking to look at that SnackDown demo and see that despite having more than double the viewers of Dynamite, SD only received .08 more in the demo?

I can agree with you on the brand recognition, the further breakdowns of ethnicity, sex, etc that gives people from all walks of life fair representation on TV and in the wrestling universe. I can agree that WWE YouTube fucking KILLS it.

We know WWE is a staple of American culture. It isn’t going to “lose” anymore than the NFL is going to “lose”.

But can I get you to at least speak on the fact that 18-49 year old’s are choosing to watch both shows at nearly the same rate without further discussing everything else..?


----------



## La Parka

WWE hasn’t been marketed towards 18-49 year olds in 20 years.

Some television shows like AEW may seek that demo but it’s apparent that WWE isn’t after that crowd.


----------



## tower_

Not sure where exactly to discuss this but should we read anything into Sting's debut having twice the views on youtube of the title change?

I'm all for not overreacting to internet shit, but when you sort by their highest view stuff I kind of get the sense that someone in the company does. Lots of OC and Mox in the top views, which explains OC's push. Not going to do any official analysis but just from skimming through it I'd say Jericho, Hangman and Matt Hardy (yeah...) all do better than Kenny. This angle better go somewhere because I still dont think the casuals care about him in the States


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

tower_ said:


> Not sure where exactly to discuss this but should we read anything into Sting's debut having twice the views on youtube of the title change?


not at all

One of pro-wrestling's top draws from the MNW era [which is considered as the PEAK of pro-wrestling] , beating two guys from pro-wrestling's least popular era [also arguably Omega is still fairly unknown to a casual audience]


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pippen94 said:


> Smack down finished dead last on network tv for total viewers for time slot!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SHOWBUZZDAILY FRIDAY NETWORK SCORECARD – 12.4.2020 | Showbuzz Daily
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.showbuzzdaily.com


oopsie poopsie

good thing for them their demo is good and that is all that matters


----------



## rbl85

So here are some of the minute by minute numbers for this week.

Bucks promo : 1.1M (620k 18-49)
Sting Debut : 1.05M (600k 18-49)
Jericho - Kazarian close to 1M (not all the match)
The end of the battle royal got over 1M
Last 5 minutes of Mox - Omega were the highest of the match and the whole match was very steady just under 1M (600K 18-49 the whole match)


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> So here are some of the minute by minute numbers for this week.
> 
> Bucks promo : 1.1M (620k 18-49)
> Sting Debut : 1.05M (600k 18-49)
> Jericho - Kazarian close to 1M (not all the match)
> The end of the battle royal got over 1M
> Last 5 minutes of Mox - Omega were the highest of the match and the whole match was very steady just under 1M (600K 18-49 the whole match)


Big Rating Bucks - love to see it


----------



## Prosper

Dark Emperor said:


> Youre just trolling, Smackdown is very high in total viewers also. AEW average viewership is only 35% of what Smackdown gets.
> 
> The point is the demo has become a deflection tactic. Without Meltzer telling us suddenly this year how Important the demo was. We’d have all looked at that 912k number for such a massive show and admitted it wasn’t good.


No its just that most of you never knew what you were talking about in the first place, especially in the WWE section. The demo has always been important and always will be. It doesn't matter if Meltzer said this or that. You guys arguing for years about overall RAW/SD numbers not knowing what you were even arguing the whole time. Just because you people weren't talking about it the right way doesn't mean that it wasn't always important.

People argue ratings because it supports their opinions/conclusions on how the show should be run for their personal entertainment and which wrestlers should be pushed/not pushed. No one actually gives a shit about the numbers on any of these shows unless you're working in the field and you enjoy looking at data.

A lot of you fail to acknowledge the fact that you are streaming your wrestling content every week. Millions are and none of those people are supporting the numbers that we get from Nielson. So essentially people are arguing based on the notion that every wrestling fan has a cable box. It's silly lol. You're just arguing to argue at that point. 

I would bet money that 96% of this forum watches their wrestling through a method that's not cable. So no 912K with a 0.42 is not a bad number at all given the current wrestling climate. And SD with their 2.0 and their high demo is also good if that's what FOX is looking for. Especially seeing as the SD audience is also a lot bigger than 2 million.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

prosperwithdeen said:


> No its just that most of you never knew what you were talking about in the first place, especially in the WWE section. The demo has always been important and always will be. It doesn't matter if Meltzer said this or that. You guys arguing for years about overall RAW/SD numbers not knowing what you were even arguing the whole time. Just because you people weren't talking about it the right way doesn't mean that it wasn't always important.
> 
> People argue ratings because it supports their opinions/conclusions on how the show should be run for their personal entertainment and which wrestlers should be pushed/not pushed. No one actually gives a shit about the numbers on any of these shows unless you're working in the field and you enjoy looking at data.
> 
> A lot of you fail to acknowledge the fact that you are streaming your wrestling content every week. Millions are and none of those people are supporting the numbers that we get from Nielson. So essentially people are arguing based on the notion that every wrestling fan has a cable box. It's silly lol. You're just arguing to argue at that point.
> 
> I would bet money that 96% of this forum watches their wrestling through a method that's not cable. So no 912K with a 0.42 is not a bad number at all given the current wrestling climate. And SD with their 2.0 and their high demo is also good if that's what FOX is looking for. Especially seeing as the SD audience is also a lot bigger than 2 million.


You explained this coherently and concisely. Too bad it will fall on deaf ears.


----------



## kamaro011

ripcitydisciple said:


> You explained this coherently and concisely. Too bad it will fall on deaf ears.


Or maybe the other side already provided their best argument against those, but too bad it will fall on deaf ears.


----------



## One Shed

prosperwithdeen said:


> No its just that most of you never knew what you were talking about in the first place, especially in the WWE section. The demo has always been important and always will be. It doesn't matter if Meltzer said this or that. You guys arguing for years about overall RAW/SD numbers not knowing what you were even arguing the whole time. Just because you people weren't talking about it the right way doesn't mean that it wasn't always important.
> 
> People argue ratings because it supports their opinions/conclusions on how the show should be run for their personal entertainment and which wrestlers should be pushed/not pushed. No one actually gives a shit about the numbers on any of these shows unless you're working in the field and you enjoy looking at data.
> 
> A lot of you fail to acknowledge the fact that you are streaming your wrestling content every week. Millions are and none of those people are supporting the numbers that we get from Nielson. So essentially people are arguing based on the notion that every wrestling fan has a cable box. It's silly lol. You're just arguing to argue at that point.
> 
> I would bet money that 96% of this forum watches their wrestling through a method that's not cable. So no 912K with a 0.42 is not a bad number at all given the current wrestling climate. And SD with their 2.0 and their high demo is also good if that's what FOX is looking for. Especially seeing as the SD audience is also a lot bigger than 2 million.


I mean, that is true. I never had cable or satellite for about 15 years until last year when I moved into a place that had DirecTV as part of what was provided for living there (which annoyed me) so I actually am watching on that now, but you are right, a ton of people stream the shows including me up until then.

The ratings thread annoys me a lot. I may just avoid it now. My enjoyment of a show does not come from ratings. I am sure I have liked many wrestlers who never popped a big rating and vice versa. Like I said somewhere else on here, OC could sell ten shirts, a million shirts, or a billion shirts, and that would not make me like him more or mean he was even a decent wrestler. Those things are just not correlated. Just like everyone else, I get caught up in the "if you actually want to grow your business, you have to do things that will bring in the lapsed fans" argument. And we know why they left because they told us.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

prosperwithdeen said:


> No its just that most of you never knew what you were talking about in the first place, especially in the WWE section. The demo has always been important and always will be. It doesn't matter if Meltzer said this or that. You guys arguing for years about overall RAW/SD numbers not knowing what you were even arguing the whole time. Just because you people weren't talking about it the right way doesn't mean that it wasn't always important.
> 
> People argue ratings because it supports their opinions/conclusions on how the show should be run for their personal entertainment and which wrestlers should be pushed/not pushed. No one actually gives a shit about the numbers on any of these shows unless you're working in the field and you enjoy looking at data.
> 
> A lot of you fail to acknowledge the fact that you are streaming your wrestling content every week. Millions are and none of those people are supporting the numbers that we get from Nielson. So essentially people are arguing based on the notion that every wrestling fan has a cable box. It's silly lol. You're just arguing to argue at that point.
> 
> I would bet money that 96% of this forum watches their wrestling through a method that's not cable. So no 912K with a 0.42 is not a bad number at all given the current wrestling climate. And SD with their 2.0 and their high demo is also good if that's what FOX is looking for. Especially seeing as the SD audience is also a lot bigger than 2 million.


Prosper as always talking all the sense


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Two Sheds said:


> I mean, that is true. I never had cable or satellite for about 15 years until last year when I moved into a place that had DirecTV as part of what was provided for living there (which annoyed me) so I actually am watching on that now, but you are right, a ton of people stream the shows including me up until then.
> 
> The ratings thread annoys me a lot. I may just avoid it now. My enjoyment of a show does not come from ratings. I am sure I have liked many wrestlers who never popped a big rating and vice versa. Like I said somewhere else on here, OC could sell ten shirts, a million shirts, or a billion shirts, and that would not make me like him more or mean he was even a decent wrestler. Those things are just not correlated. Just like everyone else, I get caught up in the "if you actually want to grow your business, you have to do things that will bring in the lapsed fans" argument. And we know why they left because they told us.


that is a very good stance

ratings does not = enjoyment

Just like star ratings doesn't - when I rate stuff, it is always based on my own personal enjoyment - as there is not other metric that in the end matters as much as that


----------



## Prosper

Two Sheds said:


> I mean, that is true. I never had cable or satellite for about 15 years until last year when I moved into a place that had DirecTV as part of what was provided for living there (which annoyed me) so I actually am watching on that now, but you are right, a ton of people stream the shows including me up until then.
> 
> The ratings thread annoys me a lot. I may just avoid it now. My enjoyment of a show does not come from ratings. I am sure I have liked many wrestlers who never popped a big rating and vice versa. Like I said somewhere else on here, OC could sell ten shirts, a million shirts, or a billion shirts, and that would not make me like him more or mean he was even a decent wrestler. Those things are just not correlated. Just like everyone else, I get caught up in the "if you actually want to grow your business, you have to do things that will bring in the lapsed fans" argument. And we know why they left because they told us.


We need to just go back to being wrestling fans. I consider Shawn Michaels the greatest wrestling star of all time and the guy was never a big money maker or ratings mover. Getting caught up in this ratings stuff does nothing but tarnish your enjoyment of the product. When I talk about ratings, I like to see what talents are getting over in real time with the cable audience because its fun to see. Sting is appearing on Dynamite this Wednesday for example and it blows my mind that people are going to be watching the promo wondering how many people are watching or whether or not Sting is getting a million for his quarter hour over just enjoying the promo itself. It's crazy how people will also look at title reigns in hindsight as "failures" because they didn't "draw", when they actually enjoyed it in real time.


----------



## One Shed

prosperwithdeen said:


> We need to just go back to being wrestling fans. I consider Shawn Michaels the greatest wrestling star of all time and the guy was never a big money maker or ratings mover. Getting caught up in this ratings stuff does nothing but tarnish your enjoyment of the product. When I talk about ratings, I like to see what talents are getting over in real time with the cable audience because its fun to see. Sting is appearing on Dynamite this Wednesday for example and it blows my mind that people are going to be watching the promo wondering how many people are watching or whether or not Sting is getting a million for his quarter hour over just enjoying the promo itself.


I think another reason I get caught up a bit in ratings is I actually want a competitor to WWE which will force Vince to try and up his game again. Complacency breeds mediocrity and that has been WWE for a long time. If we have multiple products doing well in ratings, forcing each other to present better content to grab eyeballs, we all should win as fans.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Two Sheds said:


> I think another reason I get caught up a bit in ratings is I actually want a competitor to WWE which will force Vince to try and up his game again. Complacency breeds mediocrity and that has been WWE for a long time. If we have multiple products doing well in ratings, forcing each other to present better content to grab eyeballs, we all should win as fans.


i doubt ratings will achieve lighting a fire under Vince's ass

even if AEWs ratings remain 3rd - things like signing Sting might actually do it. Vince hates rejection (read 'Under the Black hat by JR) - and people leaving him for other places will light the fire

in fact, I think he's already spoiling for a fight - which is good for all of the wrestling world - a strong WWE helps everybody


----------



## Prosper

Two Sheds said:


> I think another reason I get caught up a bit in ratings is I actually want a competitor to WWE which will force Vince to try and up his game again. Complacency breeds mediocrity and that has been WWE for a long time. If we have multiple products doing well in ratings, forcing each other to present better content to grab eyeballs, we all should win as fans.


At this point I don't even think Vince cares about improving the ratings. He seems to be content. Demos are always on the high end too, especially for SD. With the demos remaining high, he doesn't really have much motivation to improve his product from the ratings standpoint. I think it's gonna take AEW just continuing to make larger and larger waves in the industry that will get him to change. AEW aligning with other promotions in a 5 vs 1 situation is probably what will do it. Because then all of the real conversations being had in the industry will be about AEW/NJPW/NWA/Impact and Vince can't have that. Once perceptions start to change as far as who is top dog, then he'll start to sweat. But I don't think AEW winning the ratings will do much seeing as Vince knows his audience is 4 or 5 times the size of the overall Neilson numbers.


----------



## Thomazbr

All wrestling I have ever consumed was acquired illegally, including through this very forum.
I imagine I'm not the only one.


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i doubt ratings will achieve lighting a fire under Vince's ass
> 
> even if AEWs ratings remain 3rd - things like signing Sting might actually do it. Vince hates rejection (read 'Under the Black hat by JR) - and people leaving him for other places will light the fire
> 
> in fact, I think he's already spoiling for a fight - which is good for all of the wrestling world - a strong WWE helps everybody


Ratings in a vacuum might not, but Sting is one of just the latest guys to reject his offers so it may be a cumulative effect eventually. It was the combination of Nash and Hall leaving PLUS WCW all of a sudden making him look like the #2 brand that really caused him to change. I do not see Vince ever wanting to be perceived as #2 again. 

I hope he does up his game which would be great for the industry.


----------



## One Shed

prosperwithdeen said:


> At this point I don't even think Vince cares about improving the ratings. He seems to be content. Demos are always on the high end too, especially for SD. With the demos remaining high, he doesn't really have much motivation to improve his product from the ratings standpoint. I think it's gonna take AEW just continuing to make larger and larger waves in the industry that will get him to change. AEW aligning with other promotions in a 5 vs 1 situation is probably what will do it. Because then all of the real conversations being had in the industry will be about AEW/NJPW/NWA/Impact and Vince can't have that. Once perceptions start to change as far as who is top dog, then he'll start to sweat. But I don't think AEW winning the ratings will do much seeing as Vince knows his audience is 4 or 5 times the size of the overall Neilson numbers.


Exactly, the perception or reality that another company or federation of companies is making him look like #2 seems like something he will actually wake up and respond to.


----------



## Pippen94

rbl85 said:


> So here are some of the minute by minute numbers for this week.
> 
> Bucks promo : 1.1M (620k 18-49)
> Sting Debut : 1.05M (600k 18-49)
> Jericho - Kazarian close to 1M (not all the match)
> The end of the battle royal got over 1M
> Last 5 minutes of Mox - Omega were the highest of the match and the whole match was very steady just under 1M (600K 18-49 the whole match)


Orange Cassidy!!!


----------



## Prosper

Two Sheds said:


> Exactly, the perception or reality that another company or federation of companies is making him look like #2 seems like something he will actually wake up and respond to.


And I'm honestly looking forward to it. I still love a lot of the talent they have over there in WWE. They can truly put on some great TV if they try. And them putting on great TV will also get Tony to step up as well, especially when it comes to stuff like holding back on storylines or the women's division in general. Competition is great for everyone, the promoters and the fans.


----------



## One Shed

prosperwithdeen said:


> And I'm honestly looking forward to it. I still love a lot of the talent they have over there in WWE. They can truly put on some great TV if they try. And them putting on great TV will also get Tony to step up as well, especially when it comes to stuff like holding back on storylines or the women's division in general. Competition is great for everyone, the promoters and the fans.


Yeah and it is great for the talent too, actually getting paid more especially considering the TV contracts. The WWE does have a legit great roster. Imagine what those guys could do with the scripted promos gone and the reigns taken off a bit, no pun intended.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

kamaro011 said:


> Or maybe the other side already provided their best argument against those, but too bad it will fall on deaf ears.


People used to believe the Sun revolved around the Earth too even after it was proven not to be the case. Just because one thinks something is right, even after being told it is most of their life doesn't make it accurate.

Unless one believes the Sun _does_ revolve around the Earth which to that, then I say, do your research.


----------



## One Shed

ripcitydisciple said:


> People used to believe the Sun revolved around the earth too even after it was proven not to be the case. Just because one thinks something is right, even after being told it is most of their life doesn't make it accurate.
> 
> Unless one believes the Sun _does_ revolve around the earth which to that, then I say, do your research.


Most of this is personal preference, not scientific theory.

We should always be open to new evidence, but Nielsen ratings are not exactly scientific. Someone with a box has a bad stomachache during a lead in show and all of a sudden the next show looks more popular one week.

And besides, the Earth does not revolve around the sun either. The Earth and the sun both revolve around their common center of mass. So there is always room for some nuance.


----------



## kamaro011

ripcitydisciple said:


> People used to believe the Sun revolved around the earth too even after it was proven not to be the case. Just because one thinks something is right, even after being told it is most of their life doesn't make it accurate.
> 
> Unless one believes the Sun _does_ revolve around the earth which to that, then I say, do your research.


This very same argument can also be used against you ironically.

I shouldn't be baited by your own word "Too bad it will falls on deaf ears", my bad.


----------



## Pippen94

kamaro011 said:


> This very same argument can also be used against you ironically.
> 
> I shouldn't be baited by your own word "Too bad it will falls on deaf ears", my bad.


Smack down is lowest rated show in time slot on network TV for over a year - why hasn't it been canceled??


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Two Sheds said:


> Most of this is personal preference, not scientific theory.
> 
> We should always be open to new evidence, but Nielsen ratings are not exactly scientific. Someone with a box has a bad stomachache during a lead in show and all of a sudden the next show looks more popular one week.
> 
> And besides, the Earth does not revolve around the sun either. The Earth and the sun both revolve around their common center of mass. So there is always room for some nuance.


Casually dropping Scientific bombs on a Sunday 🤯

Respect


----------



## kamaro011

Pippen94 said:


> Smack down is lowest rated show in time slot on network TV for over a year - why hasn't it been canceled??


AEW is still behind those number, why hasn't it been canceled??

Sorry i don't give a fuck about WWE as whole and even then it's even relevant to the thread?


----------



## Swindle

There's plenty of reasons for Fox to want to keep Smackdown around. One, its original content they don't have to deal with coming up with themselves, no reruns and friday is not exactly the hot night for network tv anyway.


----------



## Pippen94

kamaro011 said:


> AEW is still behind those number, why hasn't it been canceled??
> 
> Sorry i don't give a fuck about WWE as whole and even then it's even relevant to the thread?


Because one is on network tv.

Shows how important demos are


----------



## Pippen94

Swindle said:


> There's plenty of reasons for Fox to want to keep Smackdown around. One, its original content they don't have to deal with coming up with themselves, no reruns and friday is not exactly the hot night for network tv anyway.


Because it's number 1 show most weeks. 
Network don't keep low rating shows for long


----------



## ripcitydisciple

kamaro011 said:


> This very same argument can also be used against you ironically.
> 
> I shouldn't be baited by your own word "Too bad it will falls on deaf ears", my bad.


Sure, you could do that, if you want to continue to contribute the spreading of false information. The demo of 18 to 49 has been the most important statistic for nearly the last 2 decades. Don't matter what it was before that is how it is now. You can continue following an outdated method if you want but you would be doing so erroneously.

If total viewers is the most important then what does it mean when in one quarter, AEW had more viewers in the 18-49 demo alone than NXT had Total Viewers in ALL categories? Including the 18-49 demo.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Again guys, nobody is saying the demographic isn't important we are saying it's not important within a wrestling context. Two Sheds did the research, he wrote all the advertisements up I think we determined that maybe like 3 or 4 were actually entirely aimed at young people mixed in with fast food ads (Which children and people over 50 are interested in also) and strictly old people (Help with stop pissing yourself, old person insurance etc)

AEW to my knowledge doesn't have any major young person sponsors, they don't have any major young person celebrity acts trying to get on their TV show because of the demo, they don't have young person brands knocking the door down to get the AEW audience so how can we rightly argue that the demo is this amazing thing?

The only thing that it means is that the younger audience is attracted to AEW which is great but unless it results in dollars it's nowhere near as important as all of you are trying to make it out to be.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Again guys, nobody is saying the demographic isn't important we are saying it's not important within a wrestling context. *Two Sheds did the research, he wrote all the advertisements up I think we determined that maybe like 3 or 4 were actually entirely aimed at young people mixed in with fast food ads *(Which children and people over 50 are interested in also) and strictly old people (Help with stop pissing yourself, old person insurance etc)
> 
> AEW to my knowledge doesn't have any major young person sponsors, they don't have any major young person celebrity acts trying to get on their TV show because of the demo, they don't have young person brands knocking the door down to get the AEW audience so how can we rightly argue that the demo is this amazing thing?
> 
> The only thing that it means is that the younger audience is attracted to AEW which is great but unless it results in dollars it's nowhere near as important as all of you are trying to make it out to be.


i recommend you look at that list of ads again


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i recommend you look at that list of ads again


Can someone repost the list if ads, thread is long lol


----------



## One Shed

RapShepard said:


> Can someone repost the list if ads, thread is long lol











AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread Part IV


You're reaching brother. I'm 29 the youngest person I know with life insurance is 55. I actually don't remember a lot of their ads, lots of TNT shows, movies etc, lot's of health related things (like the diaherrea thing), I think perhaps the occasional food product? Someone else will chime in...




www.wrestlingforum.com





I also posted a bit later how I personally broke down the ads and who they primarily targeted:









AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread Part IV


God I hate this thread. Just putting this out there. SPECULATION ON A COMPANY'S DEMISE OR WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO IT IS FINE. WWE HAS IT DISCUSSED, TNA HAS IT DISCUSSED. ROH, PWG, SOME BACKYARD FED IN TIMBUKTU. If wwe gets that speculation so can aew. Its a pretty argument to refute so refute it...




www.wrestlingforum.com





I am planning to watch Smackdown later tonight and MIGHT do the same thing, if it is not too painful.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i recommend you look at that list of ads again


No, I'm good? Not sure why you took me off ignore just to be combative with me every day. Chuck me back on there.


----------



## Klitschko

Two Sheds said:


> AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread Part IV
> 
> 
> You're reaching brother. I'm 29 the youngest person I know with life insurance is 55. I actually don't remember a lot of their ads, lots of TNT shows, movies etc, lot's of health related things (like the diaherrea thing), I think perhaps the occasional food product? Someone else will chime in...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also posted a bit later how I personally broke down the ads and who they primarily targeted:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread Part IV
> 
> 
> God I hate this thread. Just putting this out there. SPECULATION ON A COMPANY'S DEMISE OR WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO IT IS FINE. WWE HAS IT DISCUSSED, TNA HAS IT DISCUSSED. ROH, PWG, SOME BACKYARD FED IN TIMBUKTU. If wwe gets that speculation so can aew. Its a pretty argument to refute so refute it...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am planning to watch Smackdown later tonight and MIGHT do the same thing, if it is not too painful.


RAW is dreadful, but Smackdown is probably the best of the wrestling shows actually. It should fly by pretty easily for you if you end up watching it. In my opinion of course.


----------



## kamaro011

Klitschko said:


> RAW is dreadful, but Smackdown is probably the best of the wrestling shows actually. It should fly by pretty easily for you if you end up watching it. In my opinion of course.


All wrestling show is different state of shit honestly, you can only enjoy few part of them that doesn't look like a shit and can safely remove the rest that you don't care.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> No, I'm good? Not sure why you took me off ignore just to be combative with me every day. Chuck me back on there.


you’re not my mom


----------



## One Shed

OK...I did it. I watched the Smackdown commercials, and I hate myself for it. Not because it was a horrible show. I usually do watch it @Klitschko, just not live.

HOW do people watch this stuff live. There were so many more commercials than cable. And commercials these days are 98% unoriginal and trash. Marketing people are so damn lazy (no offense to marketing people on here). Cheesy dumb comedy, horrible products for your health...wait maybe now I know why they market this stuff towards modern wrestling fans. Eureka?

I tried to note if a commercial was literally the exact same one that aired during Dynamite but I am not vouching 100% accuracy since I want to forget them all.

I will make these first reaction notes: MOST of them were either for the same companies or very similar companies. Notable exception was Mercedes which is clearly not for poor people or kids. Other than that there were a few that I could consider your Olympic level sponsors (as in they pay a ton of money for ads a year, sponsor big things like the Olympics) like Coca-cola, McDonald's, Walmart, Amazon.

Overall I have learned that commercials today are almost all trash and it is pretty clear why we Americans are mostly dumb and overweight. Jesus.

Anyway, to the facts:

First Break:

Progressive Insurance - 30 seconds
Pizza Hut - 15 seconds
Fox Sports Boxing PPV - 15 seconds
Local News commercial - 20 seconds
Local Business commercial (Pull-N-Save Auto Parts) - 30 seconds
Bob's Discount furniture - 30 seconds
Geico Insurance - 30 seconds
Mercedes Benz - 30 seconds

Second Break:

Coca-cola - 60 seconds
Extra Gum - 15 seconds
Cricket Wireless (same commercial as AEW) - 15 seconds
Kay Jewelers (same commercial as AEW) - 15 seconds
McDonald's - 30 seconds
Ferrero Rocher (Chocolates) - 15 seconds
Oculus - 15 seconds
Fox Sports App - 5 seconds
NXT Takeover - 35 seconds

Third Break:

Progressive Insurance - 30 seconds
Taco Bell - 15 seconds
M&M Candy (same commercial as AEW) - 15 seconds
Hardee's (same commercial as AEW) - 15 seconds
Call me Kat (some show on Fox) - 15 seconds
Arby's - 30 seconds
Floor & Decor (Home improvement store) - 30 seconds
Mercedes Benz - 30 seconds
Bob's Discount furniture - 30 seconds

Fourth Break:

WWE Tribute to the Troops - 45 seconds
Duracell Batteries - 30 seconds
Dunkin' - 15 seconds
Nestle Crunch (chocolate) - 15 seconds
Amazon - 30 seconds
Gillette razors - 15 seconds
Verizon (same commercial as AEW) - 15 seconds
Geico Insurance (same commercial as AEW) - 30 seconds
Pizza Hut - 15 seconds
NFL on Fox - 15 seconds

Fifth Break:

Zales jewelry - 30 seconds
Taco Bell - 15 seconds
Nicorette - 15 seconds
Samsung Galaxy S20 (I think the same commercial as AEW) - 30 seconds
DieHard Car Batteries - 15 seconds
Reese's Pieces (chocolate) - 15 seconds
Oculus - 30 seconds
Hardee's - 15 seconds
Tubi (streaming service) - 5 seconds

Sixth Break:

WWE Best Of on Peacock network (WEIRD to advertise THAT on Fox!) - 30 seconds
Progressive Insurance - 30 seconds
Walmart - 15 seconds
Cricket Wireless (same commercial as AEW) - 15 seconds
Discount Tire - 15 seconds
Ferrero Rocher (Chocolates) - 15 seconds
Nyquil Pure Zzzs (In case this show fails at putting you to sleep) - 15 seconds
Hyundai - 15 seconds
Domino's "Pizza" - 15 seconds
Walmart - 15 seconds
Fox Nation (Fox streaming service?) - 10 seconds
Fox Sports Boxing PPV - 20 seconds

Seventh Break:

NXT Takeover - 40 seconds
FDA commercial about not to steal your parents' money to buy vaping pens (not joking) - 30 seconds
Little Caesar's Pizza (cheap pizza, but this one I love) - 15 seconds
Advance Auto Parts - 15 seconds
Nestle Crunch (chocolate) - 15 seconds
Coca-cola - 30 seconds
Kay Jewelers (same commercial as AEW) - 15 seconds
Extra Gum - 15 seconds
Gillette razors - 15 seconds
Hardee's (same commercial as AEW) - 15 seconds
NFL on Fox - 15 seconds

Eighth Break:

Amazon - 30 seconds
Pizza Hut - 15 seconds
Ferrero Rocher (Chocolates) - 15 seconds
Taco Bell - 15 seconds
9-1-1 (show on Fox) - 15 seconds
Local commercial (This one was for a local college's basketball channel...) - 20 seconds
Arby's - 15 seconds
Geico Insurance - 30 seconds
Chrysler Pacifica - 30 seconds
Schitt's Creek (Show on Fox) - 10 seconds
Fox Sports App - 5 seconds

Ninth Break:

WWE Tribute to the Troops - 45 seconds
Progressive Insurance - 30 seconds
McDonald's - 15 seconds
Hershey Kiss (chocolate) - 15 seconds
Cricket Wireless (same commercial as AEW) - 15 seconds
Kay Jewelers (same commercial as AEW) - 15 seconds
Swiffer (Cleaning broom) - 30 seconds
Oculus - 15 seconds
Dunkin' - 15 seconds
Duracell Batteries - 15 seconds
Hell's Kitchen (show on Fox) - 5 seconds

TENTH Break:

CyperPunk video game (same commercial as AEW) - 30 seconds
Pizza Hut - 15 seconds
M&M Candy (same commercial as AEW) - 15 seconds
Geico Insurance - 30 seconds
Advil - 15 seconds
DieHard Car Batteries - 15 seconds
Nestle Crunch choclate - 15 seconds
Taco Bell - 15 seconds
Fox Betting App?/Fox Boxing PPV - 20 seconds


----------



## bdon

It certainly reads like it is the same fucking commercials. Hahah


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> It certainly reads like it is the same fucking commercials. Hahah


Other than Mercedes, I would put them all in the same class or level of business. To be really fair we might need to compare them to an NFL or NBA game, but I am tapping out. Someone else can do it heh.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Two Sheds said:


> Other than Mercedes, I would put them all in the same class or level of business. To be really fair we might need to compare them to an NFL or NBA game, but I am tapping out. Someone else can do it heh.


You're a good man Two Sheds.

This proves my point. Advertisers just aren't interested in ANY wrestling fans. Now we can stop all this chat about demo. Someone get Meltz on the line, our main man Two Sheds has cracked the puzzle.

Someone get this man a beer or a beverage of his choice.


----------



## One Shed

Chip Chipperson said:


> You're a good man Two Sheds.
> 
> This proves my point. Advertisers just aren't interested in ANY wrestling fans. Now we can stop all this chat about demo. Someone get Meltz on the line, our main man Two Sheds has cracked the puzzle.
> 
> Someone get this man a beer or a beverage of his choice.


Not any beverage advertised on these shows please heh.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Also, I just want to throw it out there that Taco Bell is amazing and should be on all of the wrestling shows. What an amazing restaurant.


----------



## One Shed

Chip Chipperson said:


> Also, I just want to throw it out there that Taco Bell is amazing and should be on all of the wrestling shows. What an amazing restaurant.


That unexpected heel turn!


----------



## Klitschko

Chip Chipperson said:


> Also, I just want to throw it out there that Taco Bell is amazing and should be on all of the wrestling shows. What an amazing restaurant.


I ate taco bell once. Damn near had to take an entire box of Alka Seltzer after.


----------



## One Shed

Klitschko said:


> I ate taco bell once. Damn near had to take an entire box of Alka Seltzer after.


We call it Taco Hell for a reason. Worse than cheap dog food.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Two Sheds said:


> That unexpected heel turn!


I think maybe the Australian and United States versions must be different because you told me it was god awful but me and my girlfriend went to a one kinda local (Like 8 towns away) and it was really really good. Got two really nice filling tacos and a Pepsi for like 7 dollars?

No pooping or vomiting afterwards. Would go again/10


----------



## Klitschko

Two Sheds said:


> We call it Taco Hell for a reason. Worse than cheap dog food.


Man my first and only time with Taco Bell was in high school. Ended up buying some cheap dollar menu burrito, and holy shit. It was so bad that I'm considering reporting Chip for saying Taco Bell is good food hahaha. 

@Chip Chipperson, you guys happen to have Cafe Rio over there by any chance? Now those are some legit good burritos in my opinion.


----------



## One Shed

Chip Chipperson said:


> I think maybe the Australian and United States versions must be different because you told me it was god awful but me and my girlfriend went to a one kinda local (Like 8 towns away) and it was really really good. Got two really nice filling tacos and a Pepsi for like 7 dollars?
> 
> No pooping or vomiting afterwards. Would go again/10


All that here would be about 99 cents and you would be glued to the toilet for a few hours. Cheap weight loss program but that is about it.


----------



## One Shed

Klitschko said:


> Man my first and only time with Taco Bell was in high school. Ended up buying some cheap dollar menu burrito, and holy shit. It was so bad that I'm considering reporting Chip for saying Taco Bell is good food hahaha.
> 
> @Chip Chipperson, you guys happen to have Cafe Rio over there by any chance? Now those are some legit good burritos in my opinion.


My only experience with Taco Bell was when I told my first college girlfriend I had never had it before, because it smelled like ass. She made it her personal mission to make me take a bite and I finally did at a party. So nasty.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Klitschko said:


> Man my first and only time with Taco Bell was in high school. Ended up buying some cheap dollar menu burrito, and holy shit. It was so bad that I'm considering reporting Chip for saying Taco Bell is good food hahaha.
> 
> @Chip Chipperson, you guys happen to have Cafe Rio over there by any chance? Now those are some legit good burritos in my opinion.


Yeah see, I don't think this Taco Bell had a dollar menu. It must be entirely different.

Never heard of Cafe Rio. We had another taco place called Mad Mex but it was pretty overpriced. It had luchadores on the inside though which was pretty cool.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Two Sheds said:


> OK...I did it. I watched the Smackdown commercials, and I hate myself for it. Not because it was a horrible show. I usually do watch it @Klitschko, just not live.
> 
> HOW do people watch this stuff live. There were so many more commercials than cable. And commercials these days are 98% unoriginal and trash. Marketing people are so damn lazy (no offense to marketing people on here). Cheesy dumb comedy, horrible products for your health...wait maybe now I know why they market this stuff towards modern wrestling fans. Eureka?
> 
> I tried to note if a commercial was literally the exact same one that aired during Dynamite but I am not vouching 100% accuracy since I want to forget them all.
> 
> I will make these first reaction notes: MOST of them were either for the same companies or very similar companies. Notable exception was Mercedes which is clearly not for poor people or kids. Other than that there were a few that I could consider your Olympic level sponsors (as in they pay a ton of money for ads a year, sponsor big things like the Olympics) like Coca-cola, McDonald's, Walmart, Amazon.
> 
> Overall I have learned that commercials today are almost all trash and it is pretty clear why we Americans are mostly dumb and overweight. Jesus.
> 
> Anyway, to the facts:
> 
> First Break:
> 
> Progressive Insurance - 30 seconds
> Pizza Hut - 15 seconds
> Fox Sports Boxing PPV - 15 seconds
> Local News commercial - 20 seconds
> Local Business commercial (Pull-N-Save Auto Parts) - 30 seconds
> Bob's Discount furniture - 30 seconds
> Geico Insurance - 30 seconds
> Mercedes Benz - 30 seconds
> 
> Second Break:
> 
> Coca-cola - 60 seconds
> Extra Gum - 15 seconds
> Cricket Wireless (same commercial as AEW) - 15 seconds
> Kay Jewelers (same commercial as AEW) - 15 seconds
> McDonald's - 30 seconds
> Ferrero Rocher (Chocolates) - 15 seconds
> Oculus - 15 seconds
> Fox Sports App - 5 seconds
> NXT Takeover - 35 seconds
> 
> Third Break:
> 
> Progressive Insurance - 30 seconds
> Taco Bell - 15 seconds
> M&M Candy (same commercial as AEW) - 15 seconds
> Hardee's (same commercial as AEW) - 15 seconds
> Call me Kat (some show on Fox) - 15 seconds
> Arby's - 30 seconds
> Floor & Decor (Home improvement store) - 30 seconds
> Mercedes Benz - 30 seconds
> Bob's Discount furniture - 30 seconds
> 
> Fourth Break:
> 
> WWE Tribute to the Troops - 45 seconds
> Duracell Batteries - 30 seconds
> Dunkin' - 15 seconds
> Nestle Crunch (chocolate) - 15 seconds
> Amazon - 30 seconds
> Gillette razors - 15 seconds
> Verizon (same commercial as AEW) - 15 seconds
> Geico Insurance (same commercial as AEW) - 30 seconds
> Pizza Hut - 15 seconds
> NFL on Fox - 15 seconds
> 
> Fifth Break:
> 
> Zales jewelry - 30 seconds
> Taco Bell - 15 seconds
> Nicorette - 15 seconds
> Samsung Galaxy S20 (I think the same commercial as AEW) - 30 seconds
> DieHard Car Batteries - 15 seconds
> Reese's Pieces (chocolate) - 15 seconds
> Oculus - 30 seconds
> Hardee's - 15 seconds
> Tubi (streaming service) - 5 seconds
> 
> Sixth Break:
> 
> WWE Best Of on Peacock network (WEIRD to advertise THAT on Fox!) - 30 seconds
> Progressive Insurance - 30 seconds
> Walmart - 15 seconds
> Cricket Wireless (same commercial as AEW) - 15 seconds
> Discount Tire - 15 seconds
> Ferrero Rocher (Chocolates) - 15 seconds
> Nyquil Pure Zzzs (In case this show fails at putting you to sleep) - 15 seconds
> Hyundai - 15 seconds
> Domino's "Pizza" - 15 seconds
> Walmart - 15 seconds
> Fox Nation (Fox streaming service?) - 10 seconds
> Fox Sports Boxing PPV - 20 seconds
> 
> Seventh Break:
> 
> NXT Takeover - 40 seconds
> FDA commercial about not to steal your parents' money to buy vaping pens (not joking) - 30 seconds
> Little Caesar's Pizza (cheap pizza, but this one I love) - 15 seconds
> Advance Auto Parts - 15 seconds
> Nestle Crunch (chocolate) - 15 seconds
> Coca-cola - 30 seconds
> Kay Jewelers (same commercial as AEW) - 15 seconds
> Extra Gum - 15 seconds
> Gillette razors - 15 seconds
> Hardee's (same commercial as AEW) - 15 seconds
> NFL on Fox - 15 seconds
> 
> Eighth Break:
> 
> Amazon - 30 seconds
> Pizza Hut - 15 seconds
> Ferrero Rocher (Chocolates) - 15 seconds
> Taco Bell - 15 seconds
> 9-1-1 (show on Fox) - 15 seconds
> Local commercial (This one was for a local college's basketball channel...) - 20 seconds
> Arby's - 15 seconds
> Geico Insurance - 30 seconds
> Chrysler Pacifica - 30 seconds
> Schitt's Creek (Show on Fox) - 10 seconds
> Fox Sports App - 5 seconds
> 
> Ninth Break:
> 
> WWE Tribute to the Troops - 45 seconds
> Progressive Insurance - 30 seconds
> McDonald's - 15 seconds
> Hershey Kiss (chocolate) - 15 seconds
> Cricket Wireless (same commercial as AEW) - 15 seconds
> Kay Jewelers (same commercial as AEW) - 15 seconds
> Swiffer (Cleaning broom) - 30 seconds
> Oculus - 15 seconds
> Dunkin' - 15 seconds
> Duracell Batteries - 15 seconds
> Hell's Kitchen (show on Fox) - 5 seconds
> 
> TENTH Break:
> 
> CyperPunk video game (same commercial as AEW) - 30 seconds
> Pizza Hut - 15 seconds
> M&M Candy (same commercial as AEW) - 15 seconds
> Geico Insurance - 30 seconds
> Advil - 15 seconds
> DieHard Car Batteries - 15 seconds
> Nestle Crunch choclate - 15 seconds
> Taco Bell - 15 seconds
> Fox Betting App?/Fox Boxing PPV - 20 seconds


wow - A+ effort

thanks for the hard work mate

good list of ads - i would say very similar. 75% sold, some unsold at discounted rates creeping in

some marketers doing their job and targeting same timeslots

kinda the same for me between the two


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> You're a good man Two Sheds.
> 
> This proves my point. Advertisers just aren't interested in ANY wrestling fans. Now we can stop all this chat about demo. Someone get Meltz on the line, our main man Two Sheds has cracked the puzzle.
> 
> Someone get this man a beer or a beverage of his choice.


lol - what are you talking about

75% of both programs ads were good, strong ads

you are acting like it was 75% adult diapers from your local pharmacy

it also seems you have a low opinion of wrestling fans - like we don’t ‘deserve’ to be advertised to


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> That unexpected heel turn!


He’s clearly been drinking. The only time anyone our ages is raving about Taco Bell is after a night of drinking.

He’ll be reminded of why we call it Taco Hell in the morning. Hah


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> We call it Taco Hell for a reason. Worse than cheap dog food.


Haha. I had not got to the post yet, so it is nice to see WV isn’t too different lol


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> wow - A+ effort
> 
> thanks for the hard work mate
> 
> good list of ads - i would say very similar. 75% sold, some unsold at discounted rates creeping in
> 
> some marketers doing their job and targeting same timeslots
> 
> kinda the same for me between the two


Yeah, like I said the only one that really stood out to me was Mercedes. The rest were either literally the same or in the same ballpark. I think the real comparison would be to RAW on USA since Fox has that network reach. I just really do not want to watch three hours of RAW with commercials. I am only one man! Maybe 8-10pm hours of RAW could be a good comparison or I might do NXT to get that direct comparison though. Either way, the ads are almost entirely consistent so far.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> He’s clearly been drinking. The only time anyone our ages is raving about Taco Bell is after a night of drinking.
> 
> He’ll be reminded of why we call it Taco Hell in the morning. Hah


I am convinced they do 90% of their business between 12-4am.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Two Sheds said:


> Yeah, like I said the only one that really stood out to me was Mercedes. The rest were either literally the same or in the same ballpark. I think the real comparison would be to RAW on USA since Fox has that network reach. I just really do not want to watch three hours of RAW with commercials. I am only one man! Maybe 8-10pm hours of RAW could be a good comparison or I might do NXT to get that direct comparison though. Either way, the ads are almost entirely consistent so far.


you know what would be good? Not to give you more homework

is for the board to select 4 mainstream programs they think will be getting ‘better’ ads - and we see if they have the same sort of breakup of ads

i recon it will be consistent.

Except for NFL and NBA - those will be above the rest for sure - less frequent ad breaks in prime slots

but some of the smaller games should compare

but they’ll stack up favourably to NCIS for example


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you know what would be good? Not to give you more homework
> 
> is for the board to select 4 mainstream programs they think will be getting ‘better’ ads - and we see if they have the same sort of breakup of ads
> 
> i recon it will be consistent.
> 
> Except for NFL and NBA - those will be above the rest for sure - less frequent ad breaks in prime slots
> 
> but some of the smaller games should compare
> 
> but they’ll stack up favourably to NCIS for example


Yeah, we might do nominations for a few shows if we want to take it that far. I am biased for wrestling but not for commercials. I have seen almost none over the past 15 years which is why I was so horrified with what I saw. The only live shows I watch with commercials are sports and before COVID almost all that was out with friends in a bar or something and if a commercial came on we would just chat amongst ourselves so I never saw them. With RAW and AEW, if a commercial comes on I post here on the live threads or do something else online. Nothing worse than watching commercials.

I agree with you that especially the NFL and to a bit of a lesser degree NBA would be higher level. It would be interesting to see how much though. I will automatically disqualify playoffs or Super Bowl etc. I think that would universally agreed to be a much higher level.

I would assume we are talking US commercials only and only during the first run broadcast, no reruns or rebroadcasts. Not to discriminate against any other countries, but that is where the primary money TV contracts are.

We could take the top 5 non-sports shows in the US on cable and maybe an NBA game and NFL game for comparison. I am open to suggestions as well. I just hope we have other volunteers heh.


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> I am convinced they do 90% of their business between 12-4am.


If not, I’d guarantee they KILL “in the demo” during those hours. Haha


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> If not, I’d guarantee they KILL “in the demo” during those hours. Haha


Haha that is pretty funny. No doubt Taco Bell's key demo is 12-4am, 14-30 years old, and highly intoxicated on some substance.


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> Haha that is pretty funny. No doubt Taco Bell's key demo is 12-4am, 14-30 years old, and highly intoxicated on some substance.


Can’t lie: it was so goddamn good at 3am leaving the strip club. Haha


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Two Sheds said:


> Yeah, we might do nominations for a few shows if we want to take it that far. I am biased for wrestling but not for commercials. I have seen almost none over the past 15 years which is why I was so horrified with what I saw. The only live shows I watch with commercials are sports and before COVID almost all that was out with friends in a bar or something and if a commercial came on we would just chat amongst ourselves so I never saw them. With RAW and AEW, if a commercial comes on I post here on the live threads or do something else online. Nothing worse than watching commercials.
> 
> I agree with you that especially the NFL and to a bit of a lesser degree NBA would be higher level. It would be interesting to see how much though. I will automatically disqualify playoffs or Super Bowl etc. I think that would universally agreed to be a much higher level.
> 
> I would assume we are talking US commercials only and only during the first run broadcast, no reruns or rebroadcasts. Not to discriminate against any other countries, but that is where the primary money TV contracts are.
> 
> We could take the top 5 non-sports shows in the US on cable and maybe an NBA game and NFL game for comparison. I am open to suggestions as well. I just hope we have other volunteers heh.


i think you’re spot on with everything

maybe a bouquet?

Snowpiercer, Walking Dead (that still on)?, NCIS, some afternoon talk shows

shit like that - we can even consult showbuzzdaily to find cable programs with the same demo?


----------



## Pentagon Senior

I've seen some reaching in this thread but calling Taco Bell a good restaurant has to be up there lol



Chip Chipperson said:


> You're a good man Two Sheds.
> 
> This proves my point. Advertisers just aren't interested in ANY wrestling fans. Now we can stop all this chat about demo. Someone get Meltz on the line, our main man Two Sheds has cracked the puzzle.
> 
> Someone get this man a beer or a beverage of his choice.


I thought the argument was that WWE would have better adds because of the older demo and a more valuable brand? But now this proves your point somehow 🤔


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pentagon Senior said:


> I've seen some reaching in this thread but calling Taco Bell a good restaurant has to be up there lol
> 
> 
> 
> I thought the argument was that WWE would have better adds because of the older demo and a more valuable brand? But now this proves your point somehow 🤔


lol.... never forget


----------



## Cult03

Chip Chipperson said:


> I think maybe the Australian and United States versions must be different because you told me it was god awful but me and my girlfriend went to a one kinda local (Like 8 towns away) and it was really really good. Got two really nice filling tacos and a Pepsi for like 7 dollars?
> 
> No pooping or vomiting afterwards. Would go again/10


Off topic but I've eaten it in Australia and America and I wasted an entire day after the American version sitting at home worried about needing to find a toilet. The Aussie version didn't affect me at all. I have to say though, that fake liquid cheese the Americans put on everything can get fucked. Absolutely disgusting and another reason why I don't trust anything Americans see as "popular", including television ratings.


----------



## The Wood

Cult03 said:


> Off topic but I've eaten it in Australia and America and I wasted an entire day after the American version sitting at home worried about needing to find a toilet. The Aussie version didn't affect me at all. I have to say though, that fake liquid cheese the Americans put on everything can get fucked. Absolutely disgusting and another reason why I don't trust anything Americans see as "popular", including television ratings.


Haven’t had American Taco Bell, but I’m right with you on the fake cheese.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it also seems you have a low opinion of wrestling fans - like we don’t ‘deserve’ to be advertised to


It depends on the fans, to be honest I've gone to shows in the past and seen the ultra smarks and just been cringing the whole time but I'm also friends with a lot of smart fans/smarks and they're great.

I think everyone deserves to be advertised to but lets be real, we aren't the most attractive, rich or in the best situations. For what it's worth I'm only at 52,000 USD a year whilst the average for wrestling fans is 47,000.

Out of all the wrestling people I know including fans I don't really know any that pull six figures either. One of my regulars is a lawyer...maybe him?



Pentagon Senior said:


> I've seen some reaching in this thread but calling Taco Bell a good restaurant has to be up there lol
> 
> 
> 
> I thought the argument was that WWE would have better adds because of the older demo and a more valuable brand? But now this proves your point somehow 🤔


My argument all along has been that demo doesn't matter because marketers don't want to promote to wrestling fans. That includes WWE, AEW, Impact, ROH etc. Cornette spoke in depth about how much face to face work he had to do when in charge of ROH just to get local sponsors for big events and how difficult it was and that's for a company that can offer local TV advertising, drawing relatively big houses (Couple thousand) with names on the show.

People view us as low class, that's just how it is. I'm in the business, I deal with people often (Before COVID at least) who you have to try and sell on wrestling shows. It doesn't help when other promoters burn venues or put on stupid shit like deathmatches (Without permission) or intergender matches that kill crowds.

WWE is slightly in a better position because it's the "biggest" but I reckon an advertiser would want to market to the 18-49 male demographic during the MLB, NBA or NFL before they give WWE a run.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Chip Chipperson said:


> It depends on the fans, to be honest I've gone to shows in the past and seen the ultra smarks and just been cringing the whole time but I'm also friends with a lot of smart fans/smarks and they're great.
> 
> I think everyone deserves to be advertised to but lets be real, we aren't the most attractive, rich or in the best situations. For what it's worth I'm only at 52,000 USD a year whilst the average for wrestling fans is 47,000.
> 
> Out of all the wrestling people I know including fans I don't really know any that pull six figures either. One of my regulars is a lawyer...maybe him?
> 
> 
> 
> My argument all along has been that demo doesn't matter because marketers don't want to promote to wrestling fans. That includes WWE, AEW, Impact, ROH etc. Cornette spoke in depth about how much face to face work he had to do when in charge of ROH just to get local sponsors for big events and how difficult it was and that's for a company that can offer local TV advertising, drawing relatively big houses (Couple thousand) with names on the show.
> 
> People view us as low class, that's just how it is. I'm in the business, I deal with people often (Before COVID at least) who you have to try and sell on wrestling shows. It doesn't help when other promoters burn venues or put on stupid shit like deathmatches (Without permission) or intergender matches that kill crowds.
> 
> WWE is slightly in a better position because it's the "biggest" but I reckon an advertiser would want to market to the 18-49 male demographic during the MLB, NBA or NFL before they give WWE a run.


Oh I thought you were insinuating that AEW's demo means little and that WWE's product would have a higher class of advertising because of other factors, more important than demo. 

Ironically the type of fans you like to look down upon usually eat at Taco Bell 🌮


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pentagon Senior said:


> Oh I thought you were insinuating that AEW's demo means little and that WWE's product would have a higher class of advertising because of other factors, more important than demo.
> 
> Ironically the type of fans you like to look down upon usually eat at Taco Bell 🌮


Nah, simply saying wrestling fans aren't attractive to advertisers at all. That's inclusive of everyone including the lovely people that come to my shows.

I have no issue with the Bell and I don't look down on anyone really. I find some wrestling fans annoying but I've hung out with fans after shows as well and always had a good time. Please don't try and paint me as some bad guy that hates wrestling fans, I'm right here with all of you loving the same things you do.


----------



## The Wood

Talking about the reality of how advertisers see wrestling fans is not synonymous with looking down on them yourself.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Talking about the reality of how advertisers see wrestling fans is not synonymous with looking down on them yourself.


It’s a fact of life. There exists a stigma for enjoying wrestling, and you perfectly stated it that current say wrestling fans hate wrestling. They tend to enjoy the heightened drama aspects the most, then they feign to enjoy the comedy bullshit as a means to try and wash off the stigma of admitting the serious stuff had worked them.

Do we emote during films and television? Do we allow ourselves to become immersed? Then why must they feel so ashamed for allowing wrestling to work them? Because “the in-crowd” left? Fuck em. They ruined wrestling for me with the Attitude Era bullshit.

But yeah. Wrestling will never receive a plethora of high end advertising. Not even the MNW did.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Chip Chipperson said:


> I don't look down on anyone really...
> 
> Please don't try and paint me as some bad guy that hates wrestling fans


I'm so sorry bro, I must have the wrong Chip. The guy I was thinking of has been doing both of those things constantly for months and masquerading as you. If I catch him again I'll be sure to report him 😅


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pentagon Senior said:


> I'm so sorry bro, I must have the wrong Chip. The guy I was thinking of has been doing both of those things constantly for months and masquerading as you. If I catch him again I'll be sure to report him 😅


Well now you're just being dishonest. The only time I've brought up wrestling fans and even been somewhat negative is with demo talk which has only occurred over the past few weeks. Now that I'm right it's suddenly "Chip is an asshole who hates wrestling fans!" when I am one myself and most people I know are one.

Again, this thread isn't about me. If you don't like me put me on ignore bro.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Chip Chipperson said:


> Well now you're just being dishonest. The only time I've brought up wrestling fans and even been somewhat negative is with demo talk which has only occurred over the past few weeks. Now that I'm right it's suddenly "Chip is an asshole who hates wrestling fans!" when I am one myself and most people I know are one.
> 
> Again, this thread isn't about me. If you don't like me put me on ignore bro.


Yeh I don't need to add anything more to be honest, folks can read and see what's been said. 

We should get back on topic though you're right - I'm sticking with 975k and 0.40 this week although I think it's the toughest week to call in a long time


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> It depends on the fans, to be honest I've gone to shows in the past and seen the ultra smarks and just been cringing the whole time but I'm also friends with a lot of smart fans/smarks and they're great.
> 
> I think everyone deserves to be advertised to but lets be real, we aren't the most attractive, rich or in the best situations. For what it's worth I'm only at 52,000 USD a year whilst the average for wrestling fans is 47,000.
> 
> Out of all the wrestling people I know including fans I don't really know any that pull six figures either. One of my regulars is a lawyer...maybe him?
> 
> 
> 
> My argument all along has been that demo doesn't matter because marketers don't want to promote to wrestling fans. That includes WWE, AEW, Impact, ROH etc. Cornette spoke in depth about how much face to face work he had to do when in charge of ROH just to get local sponsors for big events and how difficult it was and that's for a company that can offer local TV advertising, drawing relatively big houses (Couple thousand) with names on the show.
> 
> People view us as low class, that's just how it is. I'm in the business, I deal with people often (Before COVID at least) who you have to try and sell on wrestling shows. It doesn't help when other promoters burn venues or put on stupid shit like deathmatches (Without permission) or intergender matches that kill crowds.
> 
> WWE is slightly in a better position because it's the "biggest" but I reckon an advertiser would want to market to the 18-49 male demographic during the MLB, NBA or NFL before they give WWE a run.


I do 6 figs and more - as I’m sure many others do. I doubt I am a unicorn - just from this board I bet @prosperwithdeen does very well and I recon @DetroitRiverPhx and @RapShepard too

one thing I know is ‘nothing is as it seems’ - people who look uncouth, sometimes are the biggest earners, spenders of all

the main one is you have Khan - that is a typical wrestling fan and he can buy and sell all of us 20x over / Trump is one too. if there’s two, there must be more

BUT - none of that matters - those fastfood guys, and Cricket wireless and the like - that is the big marketing money anyway - they love wrestling fans obvs


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> Talking about the reality of how advertisers see wrestling fans is not synonymous with looking down on them yourself.


it is if you have no basis for your hypothesis - and therefore attach your own opinion to arrive at a value


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I do 6 figs and more - as I’m sure many others do. I doubt I am a unicorn - just from this board I bet @prosperwithdeen does very well and I recon @DetroitRiverPhx and @RapShepard too
> 
> but the main one is you have Khan - that is a typical wrestling fan and he can buy and sell all of us 20x over / Trump is one too. if there’s two, there must be more
> 
> BUT - none of that matters - those fastfood guys, and Cricket wireless and the like - that is the big marketing money anyway - they love wrestling fans obvs


I'm not saying none do I'm saying the majority don't. That's backed up by Reddit etc.

Can you count Trump? Is he even a fan? Khan has his money because of his dad.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'm not saying none do I'm saying the majority don't. That's backed up by Reddit etc.
> 
> Can you count Trump? Is he even a fan? Khan has his money because of his dad.


rich is rich, no matter how you come by it


----------



## Jaxon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> no stress - it is confusing
> 
> think about it like this - the overall number is a calculation that they estimate.
> 
> in 35,000 peoples homes, they have a box that measures what they watch. These people are as close a ’representation’ of the American populace as they can get. X% white, X% african american, X% middle class, X% single moms and so on and so on.
> 
> they then measure what these people watch on any given night and do what they call a ‘universe’ calculation which says - ‘if X amount of people who has our box watched NCIS, and the total viewing of the night in America is ABC, then it stands to reason that the overall figures of people who watched a show is XYZ’ - which is why the overall number ends up being a thumb-suck. Because you cannot prove it
> 
> its an educated thumbsuck - but it still is one - you are trying to say the 35k people represents and watches what the whole of the USA is _likely_ to watch on any given night
> 
> now, when we get to demo’s though, it gets interesting. They know for a fact in the households with the boxes, there is 25% people under 34 and 25% kids and 25% older than 64 for example
> 
> so, they can much more accurately determine “from The 35k confirmed boxes, we know of the total watchers we measure, 0.42 in 18 - 34 watched NCIS”
> 
> and with that certainty, a marketer can go - ‘ok, i know i want to reach specifically this audience and therefore i want to market on NCIS, because if 25% of 18-34 watched NCIS for sure in 35k households, the chances are greater that this same program appeals to the same audience in the whole of the usa’ (still a thumbsuck, of course - but a more focused one, trends are a thing) - so, you extrapolate your data / and you even copy that into other avenues - you target the same age in facebook for instance
> 
> and then you layer over income potential, conversion potential and what you are trying to market - getting younger people into your brand, or getting newly married people to take a homeloan etc etc - and you market according to the demo you want to reach
> 
> 9 times out of 10 - the 18 - 50 is the ‘money‘ demo. People in the prime stage of their life to consume products of various degrees and prices
> 
> if you were the marketing Manager of a life insurer though, or a multivitamin - you would avoid these expensive slots, and go for a 50+ audience
> 
> also important to note, media buyers get a LOT more info on the audiences than we do - we get 5% of the data maybe
> 
> 
> pps> this is also why online ads are taking over. I can target exactly who i want - none of this ‘they might be who i want’ BS
> 
> ppps> this is why magazine ads are dying, they are worse than tv. They have a ‘pass-on’ rate figure. ‘We print 50k magazines, but 250k people read it because it is ‘passed on’ between family members’
> 
> lol - complete and utter BS. Neither tv or magazines can even track what the different eyeballs are doing on 3 tv sets in one home or between 3 family members


thank you for this


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I do 6 figs and more - as I’m sure many others do. I doubt I am a unicorn - just from this board I bet @prosperwithdeen does very well and I recon @DetroitRiverPhx and @RapShepard too
> 
> one thing I know is ‘nothing is as it seems’ - people who look uncouth, sometimes are the biggest earners, spenders of all
> 
> the main one is you have Khan - that is a typical wrestling fan and he can buy and sell all of us 20x over / Trump is one too. if there’s two, there must be more
> 
> BUT - none of that matters - those fastfood guys, and Cricket wireless and the like - that is the big marketing money anyway - they love wrestling fans obvs


Maybe Reddit is an anomaly because I know a lot of people here are balling


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i think you’re spot on with everything
> 
> maybe a bouquet?
> 
> Snowpiercer, Walking Dead (that still on)?, NCIS, some afternoon talk shows
> 
> shit like that - we can even consult showbuzzdaily to find cable programs with the same demo?


The Walking Dead would be a good one and yes, amazingly it is still on. Not sure about NCIS though as even though the airings are quite popular on USA, that show airs first on the CBS network. Maybe one network show like that makes sense since Smackdown is a network show. Afternoon talk shows are mostly geared towards women so that would be an interesting contrast as well. I was thinking last night too how MOST of the commercials on both shows were aimed towards men or neutral. All the shaving commercials featured men. Lots of car repair stuff. Even the jewelry commercials were not "hey, buy this shiny thing for yourself" they were "buy some stuff for your girlfriend/wife dumbass." Then pick some ultra popular cable news show like Hannity that all the old people watch. Those commercials are going to be a lot of "buy gold" commercials and endless pharmaceuticals.

Maybe nominate Walking Dead, NCIS (on CBS), Ellen (popular talk show mostly with women), Hannity (right wing news opinion show that old people watch). Could also do something horrible but frequently tops the cable list like a Real Housewives of some city or Jersey Shore, especially in "the demo." Thinking about all this reminds me how the vast, vast majority of everything on television sucks.


----------



## Shock Street

Optikk is All Elite said:


> Maybe Reddit is an anomaly because I know a lot of people here are balling


I would definitely be interested to see the same questions asked in other places. Not because I think its inaccurate, but I think Reddit specifically attracts a certain audience.

I'd also be interested in seeing what pre-covid ads looked like because advertising in general has taken an insane dip this year, across every format, TV, Youtube, etc.


----------



## One Shed

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'm not saying none do I'm saying the majority don't. That's backed up by Reddit etc.
> 
> Can you count Trump? Is he even a fan? Khan has his money because of his dad.


Trump is in the KFC/McDonald's demographic. That is for sure.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Two Sheds said:


> The Walking Dead would be a good one and yes, amazingly it is still on. Not sure about NCIS though as even though the airings are quite popular on USA, that show airs first on the CBS network. Maybe one network show like that makes sense since Smackdown is a network show. Afternoon talk shows are mostly geared towards women so that would be an interesting contrast as well. I was thinking last night too how MOST of the commercials on both shows were aimed towards men or neutral. All the shaving commercials featured men. Lots of car repair stuff. Even the jewelry commercials were not "hey, buy this shiny thing for yourself" they were "buy some stuff for your girlfriend/wife dumbass." Then pick some ultra popular cable news show like Hannity that all the old people watch. Those commercials are going to be a lot of "buy gold" commercials and endless pharmaceuticals.
> 
> Maybe nominate Walking Dead, NCIS (on CBS), Ellen (popular talk show mostly with women), Hannity (right wing news opinion show that old people watch). Could also do something horrible but frequently tops the cable list like a Real Housewives of some city or Jersey Shore, especially in "the demo." Thinking about all this reminds me how the vast, vast majority of everything on television sucks.


lol - real housewives will be enlightening

same overall demo - skews higher female


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Shock Street said:


> I would definitely be interested to see the same questions asked in other places. Not because I think its inaccurate, but I think Reddit specifically attracts a certain audience.
> 
> I'd also be interested in seeing what pre-covid ads looked like because advertising in general has taken an insane dip this year, across every format, TV, Youtube, etc.


well geez, we can ask the questions here?


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> Trump is in the KFC/McDonald's demographic. That is for sure.


Hahah


----------



## The Wood

Everyone knows the reputation of wrestling fans. Come on now. This isn’t a new thing or something Chip pulled from his ass. This has been the story for a long time now.


----------



## Ozell Gray

I can’t believe AEW fans still think “the demos” matter even after I showed proof from Meltzer himself that advertisers pay less for wrestling shows with better demos than they do for other shows with lower demos. They pay less because most wrestling fans are poor and the research is out there for you to google. The reputation of wrestling fans is well documented at this point and to try and act like it isn’t is being ignorant of the situation at hand.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Maybe but clearly something is right or WWE wouldn't have gotten a record TV rights deal in 2018 and AEW wouldn't have gotten a record non WWE TV rights deal after a quarter of a year on TV in 2020.

But, yes, the NBA doing a .5 demo is twice as valuable as WWE doing it and 3-5x's more valuable than AEW doing it, agreed.


----------



## The Wood

TKO Wrestling said:


> Maybe but clearly something is right or WWE wouldn't have gotten a record TV rights deal in 2018 and AEW wouldn't have gotten a record non WWE TV rights deal after a quarter of a year on TV in 2020.
> 
> But, yes, the NBA doing a .5 demo is twice as valuable as WWE doing it and 3-5x's more valuable than AEW doing it, agreed.


Lol, I really sincerely doubt that AEW got a record TV rights deal.

Here is how the TV deal happened: 

* Tony Khan is the son of a rich man. 

* The rich people announced a wrestling promotion that has some star power attached, because they can afford it. 

* With the stars and the capital, there's no way this could be incompetently run, right? 

* Tony Khan has connections. 

* All these factors got them a TNT deal announced before they even started generating content. Live TV is valuable. 

* AEW does pretty poorly for wrestling, but pretty good for general TV. It's cheap as chips. TNT shifts production costs to rights fees and secures multiple hours of content a week at a low rate for years and years. 

It's not necessarily some giant hero's story of merit. It's not like TNT looked at the actual product and said "You know what? We are in love with THAT! Have sacks of money." It's possibly so much more humdrum than that. Pragmatic and convenient. Easy and cheap. That's not even to piss on them. WWE is considered cheap for what it provides to TV too, and they make several times what AEW does. I just wish people would put it into perspective a bit more for accuracy's sake. 

And this is why if AEW gets suddenly dropped by TNT, people are going to be really surprised because they thought everything was great. Everything is fine...right now. WCW got dropped for valid reasons despite having decent numbers compared to most other television too.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Ozell Gray said:


> I can’t believe AEW fans still think “the demos” matter even after I showed proof from Meltzer himself that advertisers pay less for wrestling shows with better demos than they do for other shows with lower demos. They pay less because most wrestling fans are poor and the research is out there for you to google. The reputation of wrestling fans is well documented at this point and to try and act like it isn’t is being ignorant of the situation at hand.


I don't know much about this topic tbf and we seem to have a few experts here.... 

You say "I can’t believe AEW fans still think “the demos” matter" 

So you're saying - a demo of 0.2, 0.4 or 0.6 makes no difference? A high demo for AEW is no better than a low demo for AEW?


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> I don't know much about this topic tbf and we seem to have a few experts here....
> 
> You say "I can’t believe AEW fans still think “the demos” matter"
> 
> So you're saying - a demo of 0.2, 0.4 or 0.6 makes no difference? A high demo for AEW is no better than a low demo for AEW?


That's obviously not what he's saying. It's just that the emphasis wrestling fans and "journalists" put on it is antiquated in 2020/2021. Cable television is not the best way to reach younger viewers today, nor are older and younger demos "irrelevant." You honestly have people in here legitimately saying that they don't matter at all and that the "key demo" is ALL that matters. I think everybody can get a whiff of that bullshit.

Plus, it does only come up as a metric when it is useful in making AEW look good or the WWE look bad. Viewership is deferred to at other times. Other demos become more important if they make AEW look good (18-35). 

I think the argument from those who doubt the demo is that it's great to get them along, but it's not the be-all, end-all like it's 1999 and the young adults are the ones with the money.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> That's obviously not what he's saying. It's just that the emphasis wrestling fans and "journalists" put on it is antiquated in 2020/2021. Cable television is not the best way to reach younger viewers today, nor are older and younger demos "irrelevant." You honestly have people in here legitimately saying that they don't matter at all and that the "key demo" is ALL that matters. I think everybody can get a whiff of that bullshit.
> 
> Plus, it does only come up as a metric when it is useful in making AEW look good or the WWE look bad. Viewership is deferred to at other times. Other demos become more important if they make AEW look good (18-35).
> 
> I think the argument from those who doubt the demo is that it's great to get them along, but it's not the be-all, end-all like it's 1999 and the young adults are the ones with the money.


Fair enough, so it does matter but there is a debate to be had over how much. I'm assuming that getting a higher demo in Q7 than NXT got in total viewership is pretty impressive for though....


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pentagon Senior said:


> I don't know much about this topic tbf and we seem to have a few experts here....
> 
> You say "I can’t believe AEW fans still think “the demos” matter"


I'm saying the "demo" doesn't matter when it comes to wrestling and it's the viewership that matters. Demos does matter but not in the way that some fans and Dave Meltzer would have you to believe. Dave Meltzer and other "journalists" only talk about the demos now so they can prop up AEW and make it look like it's doing better than it actually is.


There's people on here saying it's the only thing that matters when thats not the case. Network executives don't just look at the demos and go "it's a success and we're satisfied with the show" because thats not how it works. There's many different things that goes into it like how many black people, white people, or hispanic people are watching? How much income does the viewers earn ect. It's not black and white where you just go "well it's a top 10 show on Wednesday so TNT must be happy." This is why just taking the numbers at face value without evaluating the context of it is disengenious.

Plus older people are more likely to have more money than the younger people so thats another reason why saying that the demos are only thing that matters is a lie. Advertisers will advertise to older folks too because they know they have more disposable income to spend than lets say a 23 year old would.


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> Fair enough, so it does matter but there is a debate to be had over how much. I'm assuming that getting a higher demo in Q7 than NXT got in total viewership is pretty impressive for though....


It’s trivial unless it translates. It’s quite possible that the NXT viewership is more valuable and diverse. There’s a reason NXT loads itself with talent from all around the world. I haven’t checked in a while, but in the first few weeks, I think I counted wrestlers from every continent except Antarctica. There was something like 38 countries represented (pulling that number out of my ass, but I’m pretty sure it was in that range).

NXT also airs on the WWE Network. It would not surprise me if a sizeable chunk of NXT’s “key demo” watches via that medium. I’m not saying that I’m willing to bet it’s even 300k people or anything, but we do know that the Network has over 1 million subs and that NXT was one of the most popular programs prior to the USA launch. It wouldn’t surprise me if a couple of hundred thousand watch on there.

The “race” between AEW and NXT is kind of a weirdly framed narrative. It’s spun like it’s USA vs. TNT over the key demo, but a large part of NXT’s iceberg is potentially under the water.

Does Dynamite actually air on a streaming service that isn’t included in TNT’s ratings? I think I’ve read about it being on a TNT app or something, but that that actually counts as viewership.


----------



## Pippen94

Ozell Gray said:


> I'm saying the "demo" doesn't matter when it comes to wrestling and it's the viewership that matters. Demos does matter but not in the way that some fans and Dave Meltzer would have you to believe. Dave Meltzer and other "journalists" only talk about the demos now so they can prop up AEW and make it look like it's doing better than it actually is.
> 
> 
> There's people on here saying it's the only thing that matters when thats not the case. Network executives don't just look at the demos and go "it's a success and we're satisfied with the show" because thats not how it works. There's many different things that goes into it like how many black people, white people, or hispanic people are watching? How much income does the viewers earn ect. It's not black and white where you just go "well it's a top 10 show on Wednesday so TNT must be happy." This is why just taking the numbers at face value without evaluating the context of it is disengenious.
> 
> Plus older people are more likely to have more money than the younger people so thats another reason why saying that the demos are only thing that matters is a lie. Advertisers will advertise to older folks too because they know they have more disposable income to spend than lets say a 23 year old would.


When have young ppl ever had more money than old ppl?!


----------



## Pippen94

Fact smack down has lowest total viewership in time slot every week yet is still on air should shut door on any demo denying arguments!!!


----------



## Pippen94

With aew world champ appearing will Impact beat wwe Wednesday in demo this week??


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> It’s trivial unless it translates. It’s quite possible that the NXT viewership is more valuable and diverse. There’s a reason NXT loads itself with talent from all around the world. I haven’t checked in a while, but in the first few weeks, I think I counted wrestlers from every continent except Antarctica. There was something like 38 countries represented (pulling that number out of my ass, but I’m pretty sure it was in that range).
> 
> NXT also airs on the WWE Network. It would not surprise me if a sizeable chunk of NXT’s “key demo” watches via that medium. I’m not saying that I’m willing to bet it’s even 300k people or anything, but we do know that the Network has over 1 million subs and that NXT was one of the most popular programs prior to the USA launch. It wouldn’t surprise me if a couple of hundred thousand watch on there.
> 
> The “race” between AEW and NXT is kind of a weirdly framed narrative. It’s spun like it’s USA vs. TNT over the key demo, but a large part of NXT’s iceberg is potentially under the water.
> 
> Does Dynamite actually air on a streaming service that isn’t included in TNT’s ratings? I think I’ve read about it being on a TNT app or something, but that that actually counts as viewership.


Like I said I don't know too much about it but I can't help but notice that you like to make assumptions and predictions - and they always tend to be paint AEW in a more negative light and/or WWE more positively. Your assumptions here may well be right but I can't bring myself to put stock in them for that reason.

I do appreciate the explanation regarding the different factors though.


----------



## DammitChrist

kamaro011 said:


> Or maybe the other side already provided their best argument against those, but too bad it will fall on deaf ears.


Nah, the poster that you quoted actually had it right the first time about the ratings argument over the demographics.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Pippen94 said:


> When have young ppl ever had more money than old ppl?!


They don't. They just spend more of it. Old folks save their money cause it is all they got. Show me a young person who hasn't blown most of his cash on some bullshit video game, phone, trinket, or whatever thinking he'll make it back and then some with ease. That's why their demo is so important. They spend it, old folks save it.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

Pippen94 said:


> When have young ppl ever had more money than old ppl?!


You ever visited Portland, Oregon? There is a saying; Young Millionaires come here to retire. At least it was pre-Covid.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

ShadowCounter said:


> They don't. They just spend more of it. Old folks save their money cause it is all they got. Show me a young person who hasn't blown most of his cash on some bullshit video game, phone, trinket, or whatever thinking he'll make it back and then some with ease. That's why their demo is so important. They spend it, old folks save it.


Plenty of old people blow their money also. My Mrs' father (He's getting a fair few mentions in this thread) blows his entire pay cheque every week on shit he doesn't need. Has a gaming computer despite not playing games, A PS4 despite not playing games, tools, gadgets, phones etc.

Maybe this is just an Australian thing though. We're kind of a spending culture...


----------



## zaz102

As an AEW fan, they are doing things I hoped they would be doing to grow the brand. Although they need to execute in order to succeed.

1. Big Moments - Stings Debut - I can think of a bunch of iconic moments from WCW & WWE. AEW will need to continue to create these moments. I think this is a lot more difficult without fans. 

2. Cross- Promotion - TNA/NWA - Like how WCW felt different due to more realism/cruiserweight, AEW needs something to differentiate itself from. WWE.

3. Reach Out to External Markets - Having something like a strong video game can lead to new interest.

Clearly AEW thinks they need to think outside the box. Hopefully, they can execute well. We may get an idea starting tomorrow.


----------



## zaz102

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'm almost 100% sure he means clean slate as in all alliances/allegiances etc are forgotten about. Not that prior ban histories are being wiped clean.
> 
> By the way, can someone tell me if the demo is so important and AEW is crushing it with the younger generation why they don't have a major sponsor yet? Surely all the young person products should be banging the door down to advertise the PS5 or new Xbox games on the program?
> 
> AEW Dynamite sponsored by GTA VI? No? Okay.


I'm not sure if I am misunderstanding your point, but I would think you could be doing relatively well in a demo in wrestling without being in GTA VI. Do you have an example of such a sponsor (outside of WWE)? I haven't played games in awhile, but I can't remember too many shows (especially a year old wrestling show) being displayed in a video game. Seems like a strange way to measure success.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## Chip Chipperson

zaz102 said:


> I'm not sure if I am misunderstanding your point, but I would think you could be doing relatively well in a demo in wrestling without being in GTA VI. Do you have an example of such a sponsor (outside of WWE)? I haven't played games in awhile, but I can't remember too many shows (especially a year old wrestling show) being displayed in a video game. Seems like a strange way to measure success.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


Nah, I'm meaning why hasn't a popular 18-49 video game or product got involved with AEW yet as a major sponsor if the demo is so good and important and they can't wait to cater to the AEW fans?

So for example, maybe Dynamite launches and JR says "LADIES AND GENTLEMEN WELCOME TO JACKSONVILLE FLORIDA FOR DYNAMITE SPONSORED BY (INSERT GAME HERE) COMING TO ALL STORES IN 2021!"

Or even just like...one of these insurance places or fast food places. If AEW was this hot commodity surely they'd have a sponsor looking to cash in


----------



## zaz102

Chip Chipperson said:


> Nah, I'm meaning why hasn't a popular 18-49 video game or product got involved with AEW yet as a major sponsor if the demo is so good and important and they can't wait to cater to the AEW fans?
> 
> So for example, maybe Dynamite launches and JR says "LADIES AND GENTLEMEN WELCOME TO JACKSONVILLE FLORIDA FOR DYNAMITE SPONSORED BY (INSERT GAME HERE) COMING TO ALL STORES IN 2021!"
> 
> Or even just like...one of these insurance places or fast food places. If AEW was this hot commodity surely they'd have a sponsor looking to cash in


Gotcha. Yeah, never mind then. I didn't see anyone post that it was a super hot commodity so I didn't know who you were responding to.

IMO, they need to expand their product and sponsors would be very helpful. I remember Bischoff talking how important they were for WCW on 83 Weeks.


Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## Shock Street

Chip Chipperson said:


> Nah, I'm meaning why hasn't a popular 18-49 video game or product got involved with AEW yet as a major sponsor if the demo is so good and important and they can't wait to cater to the AEW fans?


Rick and Morty promoted a new season by dressing Best Friends up like them for a match but thats definitely it. 

Kinda random but they announced Batman as appearing on AEW once for Batman Week on TNT... and then never talked about it again.


----------



## One Shed

Shock Street said:


> Rick and Morty promoted a new season by dressing Best Friends up like them for a match but thats definitely it.
> 
> Kinda random but they announced Batman as appearing on AEW once for Batman Week on TNT... and then never talked about it again.


Now that Sting is there, we know who is next:


----------



## zaz102

Two Sheds said:


> Now that Sting is there, we know who is next:


Bah gawd, that's RoboCop's music!

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## One Shed

zaz102 said:


> Bah gawd, that's RoboCop's music!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


"It's Alex Murphy! Risen from the grave! My god!"


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Shock Street said:


> Kinda random but they announced Batman as appearing on AEW once for Batman Week on TNT... and then never talked about it again.


Batman, Mike Tyson and Shaq walk into a wrestling promotion...


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> Batman, Mike Tyson and Shaq walk into a wrestling promotion...


Muhammad Ali, Cyndi Lauper & Liberace


----------



## El Hammerstone

Chip Chipperson said:


> Batman, Mike Tyson and Shaq walk into a wrestling promotion...


Not like WWE at all 

Edit- Just realized Pippen made my point for me, thank you good sir


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Batman, Mike Tyson and Shaq walk into a wrestling promotion...


I fucking hate celebrities in wrestling.


----------



## Pippen94

El Hammerstone said:


> Not like WWE at all
> 
> Edit- Just realized Pippen made my point for me, thank you good sir


Not just wwe which does that


----------



## kamaro011

bdon said:


> I fucking hate celebrities in wrestling.


Pat McAfee is pretty good on NXT and isn’t out of place in wrestling show. I’m also say he is the best thing going on NXT right now, which is in hindsight how poor the comparison the rest of NXT or even WWE roster really are and i’m not talking about his star power alone that makes him the best part of the show.

If he for some reason is going to AEW rather than NXT for his debut. I have no doubt with the talent he had, he also makes a major impact on AEW the same he does at WWE right now.


----------



## Platt

Pippen94 said:


> No - slate was wiped clean.





Ozell Gray said:


> No it wasn't. You were warned not ok long ago about it. It was just last week sometime when you were told that.





Pippen94 said:


> From new moderator Fire this week;
> As far as I am concerned everyone has a clean slate and the war is over. This section is pure escapism and good vibes going forward.





Chip Chipperson said:


> I'm almost 100% sure he means clean slate as in all alliances/allegiances etc are forgotten about. Not that prior ban histories are being wiped clean.
> 
> By the way, can someone tell me if the demo is so important and AEW is crushing it with the younger generation why they don't have a major sponsor yet? Surely all the young person products should be banging the door down to advertise the PS5 or new Xbox games on the program?
> 
> AEW Dynamite sponsored by GTA VI? No? Okay.





Pippen94 said:


> Also from fire below;
> 
> @Pippen94 I actually asked platt to do both you and cult a solid cause I knew you would accuse me of the same shit you are accusing me of. He couldn't do what I wanted but he still did it cause I wanted to show good faith
> 
> 
> I am not going to post about this again - just ratings talk


I'll address this once before I go back and remove all the off topic chat. No-one has a clean slate ban wise, my agreement with Fire was that everyone on would be given one extra chance that's all.


----------



## bdon

kamaro011 said:


> Pat McAfee is pretty good on NXT and isn’t out of place in wrestling show. I’m also say he is the best thing going on NXT right now, which is in hindsight how poor the comparison the rest of NXT or even WWE roster really are and i’m not talking about his star power alone that makes him the best part of the show.
> 
> If he for some reason is going to AEW rather than NXT for his debut. I have no doubt with the talent he had, he also makes a major impact on AEW the same he does at WWE right now.


I don’t watch WWE, but as someone born and raised in WV who bleeds Blue and Gold and goes to every WVU Mountaineers game when I’m home, I have watched his clips on YouTube. He is a natural character. I’d recommend anyone who is a fan of his, or not, to listen to his standup bits. Dude is a natural crowd worker, so him standing out in wrestling is no surprise. 

He...has...it.


----------



## The Wood

At least the WWE’s celebrities usually show up. The whole abandoned plans with basically everyone AEW has seemingly agreed to work with can’t be good for fan engagement.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW attracting the yoof.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1336409657141645312


----------



## DammitChrist

kamaro011 said:


> Pat McAfee is pretty good on NXT and isn’t out of place in wrestling show. I’m also say he is the best thing going on NXT right now, *which is in hindsight how poor the comparison the rest of NXT or even WWE roster really are and i’m not talking about his star power alone that makes him the best part of the show.*[/B]


No, there are plenty of talented wrestlers on the NXT roster who are involved in plenty of highlights on that show (along with the rest of WWE’s roster too who are talented as well).

Just because Pat McAfee is doing a really good job as a talented rookie doesn’t automatically make the rest of the NXT roster a “sad state” or “untalented.” That’s pretty much the equivalent of saying that the rest of the AEW roster is full of “mediocre professional wrestlers” just because a celebrity like Mike Tyson came in, and is delivering good work consistently too.

Enough with that bad mindset, dude. It’s such an obnoxious and short-sided way of thinking.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Read on twitter, so take validity with a pinch of salt

1.1m for Dynamite after the 3d dvrs came in

not bad


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Read on twitter, so take validity with a pinch of salt
> 
> 1.1m for Dynamite after the 3d dvrs came in
> 
> not bad


That’s probably the case any time they get 850-900k. We don’t count them because, frankly, who cares? People are probably skipping the ads and the value of wrestling is in its live content.


----------



## 3venflow

Relevant?









Nielsen Adapts To Streaming: Cross-Platform Audience Measurement Coming In 2024


To meet the needs of the advertisIng and media industry, Nielsen plans to introduce the long awaited cross platform measurement set to launch in 2024.




www.forbes.com


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> That’s probably the case any time they get 850-900k. We don’t count them because, frankly, who cares? People are probably skipping the ads and the value of wrestling is in its live content.


'who cares' he says, in the ratings thread

which is about caring about ratings


----------



## The Wood

3venflow said:


> Relevant?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nielsen Adapts To Streaming: Cross-Platform Audience Measurement Coming In 2024
> 
> 
> To meet the needs of the advertisIng and media industry, Nielsen plans to introduce the long awaited cross platform measurement set to launch in 2024.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com


Yep. It shows how the game is changing. But I do wonder if Nielsen are going to be able to adapt seamlessly, or if they’re going to be replaced by some other metric. 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> 'who cares' he says, in the ratings thread
> 
> which is about caring about ratings


Stop being obtuse. You know this is about AEW’s ratings, you know that live ratings are what they live on (which is why you evaded the point), and you know I wasn’t saying “who cares?” about ratings.

I bet more people have watched the first episode of Dynamite on YouTube now too. You know what that is? Trivia.

Seriously, stop coming at me with this semantic BS and twisting it to try and start fights.


----------



## zaz102

The Wood said:


> That’s probably the case any time they get 850-900k. We don’t count them because, frankly, who cares? People are probably skipping the ads and the value of wrestling is in its live content.


Not sure what streaming service you use, but using Xfinity, I could not skip the ads. My guess is that streaming services are adapting to modern times.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> Yep. It shows how the game is changing. But I do wonder if Nielsen are going to be able to adapt seamlessly, or if they’re going to be replaced by some other metric.
> 
> 
> 
> Stop being obtuse. You know this is about AEW’s ratings, you know that live ratings are what they live on (which is why you evaded the point), and you know I wasn’t saying “who cares?” about ratings.
> 
> I bet more people have watched the first episode of Dynamite on YouTube now too. You know what that is? Trivia.
> 
> Seriously, stop coming at me with this semantic BS and twisting it to try and start fights.


I never start fights, I engage in civil discourse

good day to you sir, I said good day!


----------



## The Wood

zaz102 said:


> Not sure what streaming service you use, but using Xfinity, I could not skip the ads. My guess is that streaming services are adapting to modern times.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


That was in response to +3. That’s people who record it on TV and then watch it 3 days later because they either got really, really swamped and didn’t have a chance, or they don’t really care. That being said, they are all skipping the ads.


----------



## zaz102

The Wood said:


> That was in response to +3. That’s people who record it on TV and then watch it 3 days later because they either got really, really swamped and didn’t have a chance, or they don’t really care. That being said, they are all skipping the ads.


Gotcha. Just to clarify, what I'm saying is streaming on Xfinity 3 days later though. Not recording, but just watching it on demand. You can't skip the ads then either.

I thought companies moved from DVR to On Demand, which would make sense based on a scenario like this, but never looked into it. 

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## CM Buck

Wood calm down. He was being a smartass yes but you could have easily ignored that one.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Firefromthegods said:


> Wood calm down. He was being a smartass yes but you could have easily ignored that one.


....wait.... am I being a smartass?

i'm feeling a tad personally attacked here


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> Yep. It shows how the game is changing. But I do wonder if Nielsen are going to be able to adapt seamlessly, or if they’re going to be replaced by some other metric.
> 
> 
> 
> Stop being obtuse. You know this is about AEW’s ratings, you know that live ratings are what they live on (which is why you evaded the point), and you know I wasn’t saying “who cares?” about ratings.
> 
> I bet more people have watched the first episode of Dynamite on YouTube now too. You know what that is? Trivia.
> 
> Seriously, stop coming at me with this semantic BS and twisting it to try and start fights.


if you think either of those examples are anecdotal you are simply wrong

1. DVR numbers matter - picture in picture is specifically there to keep people watching through the ads. So DVR will still make them money - not to mention sponsorships like Statefarm that is mentioned during the matches

2. If more people watched the first episode on Youtube, that is more money - views = money on Youtube

so, maybe don't be so combative, looking for fights where there aren't none

we're all friends here


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Firefromthegods said:


> Wood calm down. He was being a smartass yes but you could have easily ignored that one.


He has been baiting us for days, nothing has been done (Except a warning he was given) and it's Wood that's being told to calm down?

I dunno man, I don't speak for Wood but maybe he's sick of people twisting his words to try and create an argument? I know I definitely am.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> He has been baiting us for days, nothing has been done (Except a warning he was given) and it's Wood that's being told to calm down?
> 
> I dunno man, I don't speak for Wood but maybe he's sick of people twisting his words to try and create an argument? I know I definitely am.


uhmmm.... why do you feel the need to chime in?

and where did i bait Woods?

c’mon dude - keep it on topic please. No need for derailment


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Read on twitter, so take validity with a pinch of salt
> 
> 1.1m for Dynamite after the 3d dvrs came in
> 
> not bad


That’s great. That probably explains the high PPV numbers. I’m thinking the numbers translate into merch sales as well.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Optikk is All Elite said:


> That’s great. That probably explains the high PPV numbers. I’m thinking the numbers translate into merch sales as well.


for sure they do - i wonder what it looks like on 7 days DVR

and more importantly - the demos - but i think we’ll never see that data

that is for sales people mostly


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> for sure they do - i wonder what it looks like on 7 days DVR
> 
> and more importantly - the demos - but i think we’ll never see that data
> 
> that is for sales people mostly


AEW should really start getting sponsors like WWE do. “This show is brought to you by” blah blah


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Optikk is All Elite said:


> AEW should really start getting sponsors like WWE do. “This show is brought to you by” blah blah


i think they did that Wed - they had ‘statefarm’ during the battle royale didn’t they?

statefarm seems to buy a lot of wrestling spots - must be a great return for them


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i think they did that Wed - they had ‘statefarm’ during the battle royale didn’t they?
> 
> statefarm seems to buy a lot of wrestling spots - must be a great return for them


ah yes you must be right. it might be because AEW fans need home insurance for the homes they purchased and live in.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Optikk is All Elite said:


> ah yes you must be right. it might be because AEW fans need home insurance for the homes they purchased and live in.


that is normally what happens - as you know

you buy a house, you get life insurance

it is the right thing to do, and AEW fans obviously care about the continued fiscal wellbeing of their families should the unfortunate occur

you love to see it


----------



## Klitschko

I wanted to ask this question in here since it wasn't right for the Dynamite thread so none of us go off topic in there, but when you guys were breaking down the ads and there was 7 of them that were specifically aimed at younger adults and the rest either for older people, or people of all ages. Doesn't the all ages part include young people too? Why does it have to be specifically younger people. Wouldn't it be better to do it for all ages instead of one specific group?


----------



## Pentagon Senior

LifeInCattleClass said:


> that is normally what happens - as you know
> 
> you buy a house, you get life insurance
> 
> it is the right thing to do, and AEW fans obviously care about the continued fiscal wellbeing of their families should the unfortunate occur
> 
> you love to see it


I own a house but don't have life insurance tbf

However, I'm currently single and have no kids so who really cares if I die 😭 lol

All my friends who have kids do have insurance though and many who don't too. Guess I'm a bit of a risk taker 🤣


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Klitschko said:


> I wanted to ask this question in here since it wasn't right for the Dynamite thread so none of us go off topic in there, but when you guys were breaking down the ads and there was 7 of them that were specifically aimed at younger adults and the rest either for older people, or people of all ages. Doesn't the all ages part include young people too? Why does it have to be specifically younger people. Wouldn't it be better to do it for all ages instead of one specific group?


younger is defined as ‘anything below 50+’ in this context - as the demos suggest

18-49


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pentagon Senior said:


> I own a house but don't have life insurance tbf
> 
> However, I'm currently single and have no kids so who really cares if I die 😭 lol
> 
> All my friends who have kids do have insurance though and many who don't too. Guess I'm a bit of a risk taker 🤣


lol - well yeah - your worries are less

but check your bond, the bank most likely sneaked in a customary insurance to protect their loan should you go ka-boom

might be a small amount, hidden in the fine print - but it is often the case


----------



## Klitschko

LifeInCattleClass said:


> younger is defined as ‘anything below 50+’ in this context - as the demos suggest
> 
> 18-49


Well that explains that lol.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Klitschko said:


> I wanted to ask this question in here since it wasn't right for the Dynamite thread so none of us go off topic in there, but when you guys were breaking down the ads and there was 7 of them that were specifically aimed at younger adults and the rest either for older people, or people of all ages. Doesn't the all ages part include young people too? Why does it have to be specifically younger people. Wouldn't it be better to do it for all ages instead of one specific group?


All ages would include older people also. Fast food for example is for everyone.

My major point is if their demo is so strong and advertiser's see their success in the demo as so strong why isn't AEW signing major sponsorship deals or getting young hot celebs on the show to promote to the great demographic?

The reason is because nobody in that world really cares. The only ones who do care about AEW's success in the demo are wrestling people.

Now as just a gauge then yes it's cool and impressive but it won't do anything for AEW's bottom line


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Klitschko said:


> Well that explains that lol.


yup - broad age spectrum

which is why i said 75% fo those ads falls in the ‘money demo’


----------



## Pentagon Senior

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol - well yeah - your worries are less
> 
> but check your bond, the bank most likely sneaked in a customary insurance to protect their loan should you go ka-boom
> 
> might be a small amount, hidden in the fine print - but it is often the case


Oh they tried pal, believe me! I can be quite stubborn about things like that lol

But yeh that aside the vast majority of my similarly aged friends (35) have LI


----------



## Klitschko

Chip Chipperson said:


> All ages would include older people also. Fast food for example is for everyone.
> 
> My major point is if their demo is so strong and advertiser's see their success in the demo as so strong why isn't AEW signing major sponsorship deals or getting young hot celebs on the show to promote to the great demographic?
> 
> The reason is because nobody in that world really cares. The only ones who do care about AEW's success in the demo are wrestling people.
> 
> Now as just a gauge then yes it's cool and impressive but it won't do anything for AEW's bottom line


Ahhhh, I get what you're saying now. Thx for the explanations guys.


----------



## NahFam

Chip Chipperson said:


> He has been baiting us for days, nothing has been done (Except a warning he was given) and it's Wood that's being told to calm down?
> 
> I dunno man, I don't speak for Wood but maybe he's sick of people twisting his words to try and create an argument? I know I definitely am.


Do you think AEW have any chance of breaking 1 million views overall this week Chip?


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> that is normally what happens - as you know
> 
> you buy a house, you get life insurance
> 
> it is the right thing to do, and AEW fans obviously care about the continued fiscal wellbeing of their families should the unfortunate occur
> 
> you love to see it


Buying a house has nothing to do with life insurance though. Maybe in some countries it does? Not here. I mean...homeowner's insurance yeah. But that is not the same thing or even close. And most of the insurance commercials in the States are for auto insurance. I think I documented Geico, Progressive, State Farm...maybe Allstate too? They all sell multiple types of insurance but most of the commercials were mostly pushing car insurance specifically from what I remember,


----------



## One Shed

Pentagon Senior said:


> I own a house but don't have life insurance tbf
> 
> However, I'm currently single and have no kids so who really cares if I die 😭 lol
> 
> All my friends who have kids do have insurance though and many who don't too. Guess I'm a bit of a risk taker 🤣


Exactly. Those things are just not related at all heh. Maybe we are using different words to describe Homeowner's insurance? Maybe the wording is different in different countries?


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> Buying a house has nothing to do with life insurance though. Maybe in some countries it does? Not here. I mean...homeowner's insurance yeah. But that is not the same thing or even close. And most of the insurance commercials in the States are for auto insurance. I think I documented Geico, Progressive, State Farm...maybe Allstate too? They all sell multiple types of insurance but most of the commercials were mostly pushing car insurance specifically from what I remember,


I already pointed this out once before. We are not required to own life insurance.


----------



## CM Buck

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ....wait.... am I being a smartass?
> 
> i'm feeling a tad personally attacked here


The he doesn't care he says in a ratings thread would be my go to response to be a smartass. You're good though.

Just keep it friendly boys. I don't mind banter but don't be asses about it.


----------



## VIP86

12/09 AEW Dynamite
with this kind of content you can't really ask for good ratings with a straight face.
underwhelming effort


----------



## bdon

This week’s IMPACT wrestling beat NXT in 18-34.

Kenny sucks, though.


----------



## rbl85

VIP86 said:


> 12/09 AEW Dynamite
> with this kind of content you can't really ask for good ratings with a straight face.
> underwhelming effort


The good news is since you are shitting on the show the rating is probably going to be great.


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> The good news is since your shitting on the show the rating is probably going to be great.


Who cares if this rating IS great, because they didn’t get the best show AEW could offer in order to maintain that rating.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> Who cares if this rating IS great, because they didn’t get the best show AEW could offer in order to maintain that rating.


I just find funny that when some of you hate the show it does great in the rating but when you guys praise the show it does poorly.

Strange coincidence


----------



## VIP86

rbl85 said:


> The good news is since you are shitting on the show the rating is probably going to be great.


you actually think i would be mad if AEW got a great number ?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

rbl85 said:


> I just find funny that when some of you hate the show it does great in the rating but when you guys praise the show it does poorly.
> 
> Strange coincidence


Not allowed to bait anymore.

From the reviews and feedback I'm reading it'd probably be better for AEW to hit a million for that Snoop Dogg show in January


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> I just find funny that when some of you hate the show it does great in the rating but when you guys praise the show it does poorly.
> 
> Strange coincidence


Weird how when a show is good it impacts the NEXT week's rating because of the buzz and same when a show sucks. How hard is this?


----------



## VIP86

speaking of ratings and on a separate note, even with all the hype
only 221000 people watched impact (60000 increase over last week)
and some people get angry when someone says that AEW will not benefit from this partnership.
can we please admit that the EVPs are taking advantage of Tony Khan in this situation

unless Tony Khan is planning to buy impact, then all this is useless


----------



## 3venflow

VIP86 said:


> speaking of ratings and on a separate note, even with all the hype
> only 221000 people watched impact (60000 increase over last week)
> and some people get angry when someone says that AEW will not benefit from this partnership.
> can we please admit that the EVPs are taking advantage of Tony Khan in this situation
> 
> unless Tony Khan is planning to buy impact, then all this is useless


Well, it was actually over half a million. And these were *huge* numbers by today's IMPACT standards:

221K on AXS
223K on YouTube
60K on Twitch
75K on Facebook

IMPACT also beat NXT in the key demo due to Kenny's appearance.

It's good to have positive relations with companies, because they can have long-term benefits. AEW might need some ideas in future and call on IMPACT talent. IMPACT might unearth a star, giving AEW first dibs on him. There are many positives that can come out of a relationship. Plus, we don't know the endgame of this Kenny thing yet, there are rumours that he could go for Rich Swann's IMPACT title.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

3venflow said:


> Well, it was actually over half a million. And these were *huge* numbers by today's IMPACT standards:
> 
> 221K on AXS
> 223K on YouTube
> 60K on Twitch
> 75K on Facebook
> 
> IMPACT also beat NXT in the key demo due to Kenny's appearance.
> 
> It's good to have positive relations with companies, because they can have long-term benefits. AEW might need some ideas in future and call on IMPACT talent. IMPACT might unearth a star, giving AEW first dibs on him. There are many positives that can come out of a relationship. Plus, we don't know the endgame of this Kenny thing yet, there are rumours that he could go for Rich Swann's IMPACT title.


Since when do we count internet in the TV ratings thread?

Also please move on from demo I cringe every time I see it brought up. It means nothing on a wrestling show


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Since when do we count internet in the TV ratings thread?
> 
> Also please move on from demo I cringe every time I see it brought up. It means nothing on a wrestling show


Advertisers are only going to pay what they want for wrestling, agreed.

But Impact beating NXT in 18-34 is comical.


----------



## VIP86

3venflow said:


> Well, it was actually over half a million. And these were *huge* numbers by today's IMPACT standards:
> 
> 221K on AXS
> 223K on YouTube
> 60K on Twitch
> 75K on Facebook
> 
> IMPACT also beat NXT in the key demo due to Kenny's appearance.
> 
> It's good to have positive relations with companies, because they can have long-term benefits. AEW might need some ideas in future and call on IMPACT talent. IMPACT might unearth a star, giving AEW first dibs on him. There are many positives that can come out of a relationship. Plus, we don't know the endgame of this Kenny thing yet, there are rumours that he could go for Rich Swann's IMPACT title.


advertisers don't care about YouTube, Twitch, Facebook.
you want proof ?
when Tony Khan tweeted about ratings last week
did he include any social media views ?


----------



## 3venflow

VIP86 said:


> advertisers don't care about YouTube, Twitch, Facebook.
> you want proof ?
> when Tony Khan tweeted about ratings last week
> did he include any social media views ?


IMPACT talent and staff have been raving on social media about their numbers this week. The company has been sliding into irrelevance, this gave them a kick they will be very grateful for whether or not they follow up on it. Unlike AEW, the company does not have a great TV deal, so having the show viewed on social media is also good for them, especially if those accounts are monetised with ads. Companies like IMPACT and NWA will take every penny or cent, every view they can get right now. Also, I repeat, this may be part of some bigger angle involving multiple companies and potentially Kenny winning an armful of titles. Perhaps down the line, there will be a multi-promotional super-show with AEW sharing some of the revenues out to partners.


----------



## VIP86

3venflow said:


> IMPACT talent and staff have been raving on social media about their numbers this week. The company has been sliding into irrelevance, this gave them a kick they will be very grateful for whether or not they follow up on it. Unlike AEW, the company does not have a great TV deal, so having the show viewed on social media is also good for them, especially if those accounts are monetised with ads. Companies like IMPACT and NWA will take every penny or cent, every view they can get right now. Also, I repeat, this may be part of some bigger angle involving multiple companies and potentially Kenny winning an armful of titles. Perhaps down the line, there will be a multi-promotional super-show with AEW sharing some of the revenues out to partners.


good for them, they SHOULD be happy, i have nothing against them personally, but this is not the point
the point was that AEW will not benefit from it in terms of ratings
this is a ratings thread for AEW, so what matters is what AEW is getting on TV not what impact is getting on social media


----------



## rbl85

VIP86 said:


> good for them, they SHOULD be happy, i have nothing against them personally, but this is not the point
> the point was that AEW will not benefit from it in terms of ratings
> this is a ratings thread for AEW, so what matters is what AEW is getting on TV not what impact is getting on social media


There is not 1 collaboration who's going to help AEW.

You benefit from a collaboration when you do it with something bigger than you, the only thing bigger is the WWE.


----------



## VIP86

rbl85 said:


> There is not 1 collaboration who's going to help AEW.
> 
> You benefit from a collaboration when you do it with something bigger than you, the only thing bigger is the WWE.


i would say NJPW collaboration would help AEW
mainly in terms of Talent quality, and to a smaller extent ratings if you're getting the top stars


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Firefromthegods said:


> The he doesn't care he says in a ratings thread would be my go to response to be a smartass. You're good though.
> 
> Just keep it friendly boys. I don't mind banter but don't be asses about it.


mate, he was the one being unfriendly calling me obtuse

i very clearly made a post about why the dvr numbers matter right after

i don’t take kindly to being called obtuse and i don’t take kindly being called a smartass by the impartial mod

i’m friendly - not a single post out of place


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Two Sheds said:


> Buying a house has nothing to do with life insurance though. Maybe in some countries it does? Not here. I mean...homeowner's insurance yeah. But that is not the same thing or even close. And most of the insurance commercials in the States are for auto insurance. I think I documented Geico, Progressive, State Farm...maybe Allstate too? They all sell multiple types of insurance but most of the commercials were mostly pushing car insurance specifically from what I remember,


yep, i think you’re right

maybe its called homeowner’s insurance in the US


----------



## Erik.

VIP86 said:


> advertisers don't care about YouTube, Twitch, Facebook.
> you want proof ?
> when Tony Khan tweeted about ratings last week
> did he include any social media views ?


He didn't need to because he already obliterated NXT.

It's worth mentioning the whole scale with Impact because the numbers tended to be low as it is - so seeing huge increases like they have done is pretty useful. Just like them beating NXT in the demographic.


----------



## CM Buck

LifeInCattleClass said:


> mate, he was the one being unfriendly calling me obtuse
> 
> i very clearly made a post about why the dvr numbers matter right after
> 
> i don’t take kindly to being called obtuse and i don’t take kindly being called a smartass by the impartial mod
> 
> i’m friendly - not a single post out of place


I apologise


----------



## fabi1982

3venflow said:


> Well, it was actually over half a million. And these were *huge* numbers by today's IMPACT standards:
> 
> 221K on AXS
> 223K on YouTube
> 60K on Twitch
> 75K on Facebook
> 
> *IMPACT also beat NXT in the key demo due to Kenny's appearance.*
> 
> It's good to have positive relations with companies, because they can have long-term benefits. AEW might need some ideas in future and call on IMPACT talent. IMPACT might unearth a star, giving AEW first dibs on him. There are many positives that can come out of a relationship. Plus, we don't know the endgame of this Kenny thing yet, there are rumours that he could go for Rich Swann's IMPACT title.


How? Impact did a 0.08 as far as I can see, so where does Impact beat NXT in the key demo? Just curious.


----------



## 3venflow

fabi1982 said:


> How? Impact did a 0.08 as far as I can see, so where does Impact beat NXT in the key demo? Just curious.


Sorry, I meant the 18-34 demo. IMPACT did 0.05 compared to NXT's 0.04.


----------



## fabi1982

3venflow said:


> Sorry, I meant the 18-34 demo. IMPACT did 0.05 compared to NXT's 0.04.


And you can share the source where you get this info? And I thought the key demo is 18-49?


----------



## CM Buck

fabi1982 said:


> And you can share the source where you get this info? And I thought the key demo is 18-49?


I too would like the source or does it not reach international yet?


----------



## 3venflow

fabi1982 said:


> And you can share the source where you get this info? And I thought the key demo is 18-49?


It is, I mixed up the demos. But it was still an achievement for IMPACT, who have been doing pretty bad ratings and experienced a bump from Kenny. In the main key demo, they were #96 on cable on Tuesday.









Impact Wrestling, buoyed by Kenny Omega appearance, beats last week's NXT on USA in a key demo, plus detailed viewership and comparative metrics - Pro Wrestling Torch


Impact Wrestling on AXS, buoyed by a heavily-hyped special appearance by AEW World Hvt. Champion Kenny Omega, drew 221,000 total viewers last night (12/8). That is 55,000 more viewers than last week’s 166,000, a 33 [...]




www.pwtorch.com


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Firefromthegods said:


> I apologise


no stress, back to on topic then


----------



## fabi1982

3venflow said:


> It is, I mixed up the demos. But it was still an achievement for IMPACT, who have been doing pretty bad ratings and experienced a bump from Kenny. In the main key demo, they were #96 on cable on Tuesday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Impact Wrestling, buoyed by Kenny Omega appearance, beats last week's NXT on USA in a key demo, plus detailed viewership and comparative metrics - Pro Wrestling Torch
> 
> 
> Impact Wrestling on AXS, buoyed by a heavily-hyped special appearance by AEW World Hvt. Champion Kenny Omega, drew 221,000 total viewers last night (12/8). That is 55,000 more viewers than last week’s 166,000, a 33 [...]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pwtorch.com


But isnt it funny that they compare last week with this weeks Impact? Just looking one week longer ago (basically a normal week comparison) NXT has a 0.07 in that demo. But yeah take the week Dynamite took nearly all demo from NXT, thats a fair comparison. And what this means in total viewers for that demo, I dont want to start that 

Still thanks for sharing the numbers.


----------



## VIP86

Erik. said:


> He didn't need to because he already obliterated NXT.
> 
> It's worth mentioning the whole scale with Impact because the numbers tended to be low as it is - so seeing huge increases like they have done is pretty useful. Just like them beating NXT in the demographic.


and if he included any social media views, he would have opeltrated and humiliated NXT even more
do you think Tony Khan would have missed this chance ?
but he didn't do it because he knows what matters and what doesn't, it's his show after all


----------



## Erik.

VIP86 said:


> and if he included any social media views, he would have opeltrated and humiliated NXT even more
> do you think Tony Khan would have missed this chance ?
> but he didn't do it because he knows what matters and what doesn't, it's his show after all


Well, no. Because ratings and demos are far more important between AEW and NXT. Especially when both are on main network channels.

Impact is on a channel 99% of the world haven't heard of so much so that they give away their show on Twitch.

They got a 70k or so increase on that channel and they got 50k on Twitch when they usually get about 3k. Of course they're going to big up their social media and platform numbers. Impact is a small wrestling company that just got given a huge boost.


----------



## The Wood

Can someone sane please give me the goss on TNA. How many viewers did it get with the Omega appearance? I don’t want to hear the Meltzer spin with how how it was the biggest increase, or had the most single women with the least cats. How did Impact actually do in the ratings?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> Can someone sane please give me the goss on TNA. How many viewers did it get with the Omega appearance? I don’t want to hear the Meltzer spin with how how it was the biggest increase, or had the most single women with the least cats. How did Impact actually do in the ratings?


didn’t do massive spike

key demo

0.05 to 0.08

overall 166 to 221

so, a nice jump - they are normally in the below 100 position and now they were 96

but it is all in all, nothing to write home about


----------



## TKO Wrestling

fabi1982 said:


> And you can share the source where you get this info? And I thought the key demo is 18-49?


Showbuzz daily has all of this info.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Can someone sane please give me the goss on TNA. How many viewers did it get with the Omega appearance? I don’t want to hear the Meltzer spin with how how it was the biggest increase, or had the most single women with the least cats. How did Impact actually do in the ratings?


Roughly 25% ratings increase and a 6500% increase on their twitch channel. They were trending #3 and a top 5 Twitch channel.

More young adults (18-34) watched their show than last week’s NXT, not that demos matter solely so don’t think I’m going there. Just pointing it out..


----------



## 10gizzle

LifeInCattleClass said:


> didn’t do massive spike
> 
> key demo
> 
> 0.05 to 0.08
> 
> overall 166 to 221
> 
> so, a nice jump - they are normally in the below 100 position and now they were 96
> 
> but it is all in all, nothing to write home about


One of my buddies is an exec at the company that owns IMPACT.

They were expecting higher numbers.

Still happy though but they're nowhere near as desperate as anyone thinks (organizationally, at least).


----------



## fabi1982

TKO Wrestling said:


> Showbuzz daily has all of this info.


Yeah I know, but as far as I know only for the top 50. Or it is not shown for the common user not logged in or something


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

10gizzle said:


> One of my buddies is an exec at the company that owns IMPACT.
> 
> They were expecting higher numbers.
> 
> Still happy though but they're nowhere near as desperate as anyone thinks (organizationally, at least).


its not the worst number for an Axs show - but i was hoping it would shoot up to rival NXT


----------



## bdon

I don’t know what the rating will be this week, but I can guarantee next week’s rating will not be anywhere near it. They dropped the ball last night.

In a massive way.


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> didn’t do massive spike
> 
> key demo
> 
> 0.05 to 0.08
> 
> overall 166 to 221
> 
> so, a nice jump - they are normally in the below 100 position and now they were 96
> 
> but it is all in all, nothing to write home about


Thanks for that. 221k is not bad for TNA in 2020 (but how the mighty have fallen). I’m not sure how people are getting that it beat NXT though, lol. This is why the ratings stuff really needs to be discussed, but myths like that take flight.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Thanks for that. 221k is not bad for TNA in 2020 (but how the mighty have fallen). I’m not sure how people are getting that it beat NXT though, lol. This is why the ratings stuff really needs to be discussed, but myths like that take flight.


So, you just ignore where I explain it won the 18-34 demo, not the 18-49 year old demo?


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> I don’t know what the rating will be this week, but I can guarantee next week’s rating will not be anywhere near it. They dropped the ball last night.
> 
> In a massive way.


Seems like they didnt even wanted the ball. How can they hype a show so much and then play it like that, honestly if they are at 7xx next week there is no one to blame than AEW itself.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> Thanks for that. 221k is not bad for TNA in 2020 (but how the mighty have fallen). I’m not sure how people are getting that it beat NXT though, lol. This is why the ratings stuff really needs to be discussed, but myths like that take flight.


it was nowhere close to NXT

anybody saying that is delusional


----------



## RiverFenix

I'll predict 850K for AEW, with ME losing 100K+ when the q-hours released tomorrow.


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it was nowhere close to NXT
> 
> anybody saying that is delusional


You just said a page ago that you thought it would be closer, or something along the line?!

anyways, I think this week will do 1.1m and a 0.44 demo.


----------



## holy

I'm predicting somewhere around 900k.


----------



## The Wood

I think I predicted 875k. I’ll go with that anyway.


----------



## zaz102

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it was nowhere close to NXT
> 
> anybody saying that is delusional


Maybe he's talking about winning in a certain demo. But I don't think that was anything more than a minor talking point.

I can't imagine anybody thinks Impact is competition to NXT.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## The Wood

bdon might just be taking the piss, but I’ve seen people report it like TNA beat NXT in 18-49. That’s because these shitty wrestling “journalists” start saying things like “a key demo” and twisting things. Which is probably the point.


----------



## Erik.

995,000 with 0.45 demo.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> bdon might just be taking the piss, but I’ve seen people report it like TNA beat NXT in 18-49. That’s because these shitty wrestling “journalists” start saying things like “a key demo” and twisting things. Which is probably the point.


I told you a page back that Impact won the 18-34 year old demo. That doesn’t mean shit financially, but it does mean that what Omega is doing alone got more eyes amongst young adults than NXT.


----------



## izhack111

Next week it will be under 800K


----------



## bdon

izhack111 said:


> Next week it will be under 800K


Definitely below 850k. They dropped the ball.


----------



## Mr316

Next week is the real test. We’ll truly see if last night’s show was a success which I don’t believe it was.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW #2 on all of cable and #1 on all of cable in males 18-49 (0.57), and an 0.45 in persons 18-49.

AEW: 995,000 viewers/0.45 rating (Dec. 2 did 913,000 viewers/0.42)

NXT: 659,000 viewers/0.17 rating (Dec. 2 did 658,000 viewers/0.16)

AEW:
Dec. 11, 2019: 778,000 viewers/0.28
Dec. 9, 2020: 995,000 viewers/0.45

NXT:
Dec. 11, 2019: 778,000 viewers/0.24
Dec. 9, 2020: 659,000 viewers/0.17

(via Carlos Toro)


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> I told you a page back that Impact won the 18-34 year old demo. That doesn’t mean shit financially, but it does mean that what Omega is doing alone got more eyes amongst young adults than NXT.


That’s trivial. LICC was actually much more straight-forward with his answer, which is why I engaged with him. I appreciate you taking the time, but I’m not a fan of the whole spin thing.

NXT has people that watch on the Network. I’m telling you, the audiences for these shows are not that different. They’re hardcore wrestling fans.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> bdon might just be taking the piss, but I’ve seen people report it like TNA beat NXT in 18-49. That’s because these shitty wrestling “journalists” start saying things like “a key demo” and twisting things. Which is probably the point.


And taking the piss would be me claiming AEW might have done 1.1m and NXT done 620k when counting that 10% margin of error.

Sorry. I haven’t seen you mention the margin of error in a while, and we’ve not argued lately lol


----------



## Ozell Gray

995,000 viewers is nice even though it's not 1 million viewers but they were expecting 1 million so I know they're disappointed with this number. Next week will be down to 800,000 viewers.


----------



## 3venflow

Here's the full list from Showbuzz.


----------



## zaz102

The Wood said:


> bdon might just be taking the piss, but I’ve seen people report it like TNA beat NXT in 18-49. That’s because these shitty wrestling “journalists” start saying things like “a key demo” and twisting things. Which is probably the point.


Gotcha. Yeah, I'm not sure the importance. Hell, I have a hard time evaluating the importance of any ratings.

Like WWE ratings I believe have been shrinking/maintaining, but they are making more money than ever. A ratings pop isn't what gets you there, its expanding the business.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## Prosper

3venflow said:


> AEW #2 on all of cable and #1 on all of cable in males 18-49 (0.57), and an 0.45 in persons 18-49.
> 
> AEW: 995,000 viewers/0.45 rating (Dec. 2 did 913,000 viewers/0.42)
> 
> NXT: 659,000 viewers/0.17 rating (Dec. 2 did 658,000 viewers/0.16)
> 
> AEW:
> Dec. 11, 2019: 778,000 viewers/0.28
> Dec. 9, 2020: 995,000 viewers/0.45
> 
> NXT:
> Dec. 11, 2019: 778,000 viewers/0.24
> Dec. 9, 2020: 659,000 viewers/0.17
> 
> (via Carlos Toro)


I like it. #2 on cable with a 0.42. 995K is close enough to a million for the live cable viewing.

The rest of the cable people will probably DVR to make up for the 5K.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> That’s trivial. LICC was actually much more straight-forward with his answer, which is why I engaged with him. I appreciate you taking the time, but I’m not a fan of the whole spin thing.
> 
> NXT has people that watch on the Network. I’m telling you, the audiences for these shows are not that different. They’re hardcore wrestling fans.


Oh, I don’t doubt for a second that there is overlap. You don’t count DVR numbers, so why you arguing Network? More young people chose to actively go out of their way and watch IMPACT live than NXT. I don’t argue your points about demos, DVR, etc. Those are all facts.

Now you can play disingenuous, but it makes all of your other arguments meaningless.


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> I told you a page back that Impact won the 18-34 year old demo. That doesn’t mean shit financially, but it does mean that what Omega is doing alone got more eyes amongst young adults than NXT.


But to be completely honest thats AEWs young adults who wont watch next week


----------



## The Wood

Didn’t crack a million. Placing #1 in anything is a good thing for them, but will advertisers just look at it as there being a lot of dumb-ass wrestling fans?

As I’ve said in the past too, sometimes it’s better to fall on your ass when no one is watching than on your wedding day. This might be a bigger audience, but how many liked what they saw? bdon is right that this was a show they needed to hit out of the park.

For the record: I don’t even know what happened on it. NO ONE has spoken to me about it outside the forums.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Hot damn! great news.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

995k would have to be a disappointment. I'd say more but can be misconstrued as baiting or gloating


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Oh, I don’t doubt for a second that there is overlap. You don’t count DVR numbers, so why you arguing Network? More young people chose to actively go out of their way and watch IMPACT live than NXT. I don’t argue your points about demos, DVR, etc. Those are all facts.
> 
> Now you can play disingenuous, but it makes all of your other arguments meaningless.


Because one is an argument about popularity and the other is an argument about their business success.

People discount the Network to downplay NXT’s popularity — “it’s for boomers.” That’s a different thing to when someone tries to suggest that AEW is doing better than we think because it’s got illegal streams.

AEW is dependent on its TV deal. That’s why their ratings are important and things like their popularity on DVR and in shadow lounges isn’t really relevant. NXT doesn’t have that pressure. It survives based on WWE’s success.

Both AEW and NXT are obviously watched way more than by a couple of hundred thousand people live. No shit. But that means different things for both of them.


----------



## Pippen94

Aew growing every week 0.37, 0.42 & now 0.45.
Projections to catch raw have speed up - so close now.
At this rate will become no.1 wrestling show on cable sometime in first half of next year


----------



## fabi1982

And looking back at the 1m unopposed and people where like „now it goes up“. And even a heavy advertised show with actually NO competition besides NXT cant do 1m? Shaq, Sting, Kenny, and the allmighty OC in the main against MJF cant do this with the leadin from last week?

I know the demo is good, but what if next week it is 800k and a 0.36 demo again?

What does this say about the show and their fans?


----------



## 3venflow

AEW's best total viewership while opposed by NXT since Dynamite #3 (10/16/19 - 1,014,000).

AEW's best viewership in the 18-49 demographic since Dynamite #4 (10/23/19 - joint on 0.45).

Good read from an expert in these matters:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1337143831972679681


----------



## fabi1982

Pippen94 said:


> Aew growing every week 0.37, 0.42 & now 0.45.
> Projections to catch raw have speed up - so close now.
> At this rate will become no.1 wrestling show on cable sometime in first half of next year


And this is no bait?


----------



## The Wood

This is the most people that have watched on Wednesday in a while. More than the usual 1.4-1.5 million fans. The test will be in if these people stay.

But lol, their combined numbers don’t even equal Raw. They got 1.74 million or something. That’s a whole 100k above two shows put together.


----------



## Pippen94

fabi1982 said:


> And this is no bait?


Completely factual - aew growing while raw declining. Ppl who follow trends have been predicting an intersection but it's speeding up every week


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Didn’t crack a million. Placing #1 in anything is a good thing for them, but will advertisers just look at it as there being a lot of dumb-ass wrestling fans?
> 
> As I’ve said in the past too, sometimes it’s better to fall on your ass when no one is watching than on your wedding day. This might be a bigger audience, but how many liked what they saw? bdon is right that this was a show they needed to hit out of the park.
> 
> For the record: I don’t even know what happened on it. NO ONE has spoken to me about it outside the forums.


It was fucking bad for THAT night specifically. Any other night, and that is a mostly normal Dynamite show: some good things and some bad things.

Last night was not the night to have filler bullshit, and it felt like most every other COVID-era show: Cody and his cohorts in multiple segments eating time, Bucks in their most egregious spotfest (and I don’t even hate the), meaningless Jericho shit, a women’s match, a sting segment that fell flat due to the Cody focus, a very good Kenny segment, and a good finish with Miro demolishing dweebs.

Two Steps forward, one step back. Those who showed up from the past to see Sting back on TNT saw a wrestling show nothing like the Monday Night Wars-inspired episode we got last week.


----------



## fabi1982

Pippen94 said:


> Completely factual - aew growing while raw declining. Ppl who follow trends have been predicting an intersection but it's speeding up every week


So you say the title match week and the sting/shaq week will not just keep on coming but they will actually increase even more?

Just wait until next week with a 8xx and a 0.3x. What will you say then? Please save this and get back to me next week.


----------



## Erik.

3venflow said:


> AEW's best total viewership while opposed by NXT since Dynamite #3 (10/16/19 - 1,014,000).
> 
> AEW's best viewership in the 18-49 demographic since Dynamite #4 (10/23/19 - joint on 0.45).
> 
> Good read from an expert in these matters:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1337143831972679681


Clearly fans are very interested in the company's current direction and Omega as Champion.

Last night was the test.

Hope they can continue to do well. Brilliant demo and viewership for them.


----------



## bdon

fabi1982 said:


> So you say the title match week and the sting/shaq week will not just keep on coming but they will actually increase even more?
> 
> Just wait until next week with a 8xx and a 0.3x. What will you say then? Please save this and get back to me next week.


Actually, you better watch bringing up old points, bro. I caught a7 day ban for such a thing.


----------



## DammitChrist

That's a great rating for Dynamite!

They pretty much got approximately 1 million viewers this week, and that's even with Orange Cassidy being heavily featured in the main-event. Not only is it good to see that Cassidy (unsurprisingly) is still holding up well with the viewership since he's one of the most popular wrestlers in the company, but it's also good to see that AEW 'isn't' dying after all; especially with Kenny Omega also being the new AEW World Champion. Hopefully, Dynamite continues to grow their audience going forward in the long-term in spite of the ongoing pandemic.

It won't happen overnight (or even within a span of a few weeks), but I have no doubt that AEW will eventually grow as a company if they continue to deliver entertaining/solid shows like last night. This has honestly been a good week for them and their wrestling fans 

For the record, their demographic numbers for this week is pretty damn impressive :bjpenn



fabi1982 said:


> And this is no bait?


There's honestly nothing wrong with what he posted there tbh.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

fabi1982 said:


> And this is no bait?


I got a warning for much less yesterday. FFTG told me gloating is now not allowed. I told him he'd be having a busy day

@Firefromthegods 

Also, AEW won't be number one they haven't even cracked a million overall yet. Chill


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> Actually, you better watch bringing up old points, bro. I caught a7 day ban for such a thing.


Damn how will my life continue without wrestling forum? Oh right I will be actually sad about not communication with my fellow „hateful5“


----------



## TKO Wrestling

TNT got a steal with AEW. I can't get over it.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Chip Chipperson said:


> 995k would have to be a disappointment. I'd say more but can be misconstrued as baiting or gloating


They are because they were expecting 1 million according to the report. 











Sting will wrestle in AEW and AEW are expecting 1...


AEW reportedly has plans for Sting to wrestle in the ring. Sting has signed a multi-year deal to work as a full-time talent in AEW, however it was believed that he would not be taking any physical bumps due to his history of neck issues. In an update, Justin Barrasso of Sports Illustrated...




www.wrestlingforum.com


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> 995k would have to be a disappointment. I'd say more but can be misconstrued as baiting or gloating


It was actually 1.1m. 10% margin of error. Hah


----------



## The XL 2

That's a solid number. Can they keep it or even grow it? That's the question.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Completely factual - aew growing while raw declining. Ppl who follow trends have been predicting an intersection but it's speeding up every week


Predicting anything is inherently not factual. That’s all speculating. The people you follow who follow trends are not necessarily people who do it sincerely.

Raw got the same rating this week as it did last week. The idea that it is in some sortof free fall is Meltzer nonsense designed to sell newsletters and possibly push an agenda. SmackDown has also gone up.

AEW’s popularity remains roughly the same, although they are able to drive a spike in viewership with a loaded show. They then yo-yo back down to 750k. As bdon said, it’s steps forward and steps back. The number of steps is debatable depending on how much you like this shit.


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> It was fucking bad for THAT night specifically. Any other night, and that is a mostly normal Dynamite show: some good things and some bad things.
> 
> Last night was not the night to have filler bullshit, and it felt like most every other COVID-era show: Cody and his cohorts in multiple segments eating time, Bucks in their most egregious spotfest (and I don’t even hate the), meaningless Jericho shit, a women’s match, a sting segment that fell flat due to the Cody focus, a very good Kenny segment, and a good finish with Miro demolishing dweebs.
> 
> Two Steps forward, one step back. Those who showed up from the past to see Sting back on TNT saw a wrestling show nothing like the Monday Night Wars-inspired episode we got last week.


Perfect show - can't every stack show with surprises as they run out then what you got??

Look at raw ran with underground, retribution & thunderdome to pop viewers but didn't hold them long term.

Better to build storylines


----------



## rbl85

Funny that the first 2 shows in the ranking are the ones with the worst 50+ demos.

On a serious note i think they would have done 1M with a different order in the segments and by announcing in advance that Sting segment was coming "right after the break Sting" (or something like that)
Because it seems like some of us missed Sting appearance.


----------



## fabi1982

DammitChrist said:


> There's honestly nothing wrong with what he posted there tbh.


Really? Out of context bait isnt wrong? Just tell me you dont know that last week and this weeks ratings/demos are not normal. What will all of you do next week? Hating the „hateful5“ because they were right once again?


----------



## zaz102

fabi1982 said:


> So you say the title match week and the sting/shaq week will not just keep on coming but they will actually increase even more?
> 
> Just wait until next week with a 8xx and a 0.3x. What will you say then? Please save this and get back to me next week.


Yeah, If true, I think it highlights how insignificant ratings are (not completely though). Isn't WWE doing better financially than ever.

Question for you though (or anybody), what does long term success look like? Like I doubt any show goes instantly from 800k to 1M viewers permanently. I assume that would be very impressive.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## TKO Wrestling

3 weeks in a row this has happened, but AEW once again beat their year priors:

12/11/2019 778k - .28 rating
12/10/2020 995k - .45 rating


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> Funny that the first 2 shows in the ranking are the ones with the worst 50+ demos.


It’s an entertainment rag that ranks based on 18-49...why would it be weird that the metric they aren’t ranking on is lower?

If it were a 50+ list then they would be lower and something else would be higher. Because that’s what they’d be ranking.


----------



## fabi1982

zaz102 said:


> Yeah, If true, I think it highlights how insignificant ratings are (not completely though). Isn't WWE doing better financially than ever.
> 
> Question for you though (or anybody), what does long term success look like? Like I doubt any show goes instantly from 800k to 1M viewers permanently. I assume that would be very impressive.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


Long term success would be a constant 1m with spikes to 1.4m, now they average what? Like 850?
And all you see with the ratings the last two weeks is that even the precious AEW cant do shit without surprises/old guys/non-wrestling people. Just look at the shows before that and their ratings. AEW is in the same position WWE is, they just have the plus that they can take in WWE guys/oldtimersand have something fresh. WWE did it all already and also for AEW it will get stale


----------



## Chip Chipperson

AEW have stacked the last two weeks. They need to stop hotshotting and just build stories.

Do a 5 year plan instead of trying to compete now.


----------



## The Wood

This has been a stacked couple of weeks against an NXT that hasn’t been up to much. Yeah, they had War Games, but go-homes and post-shows mean so little these days (and this is the fault of wrestling and it deserves to wear it). NXT was especially weak last week. It was as much an experiment on their end letting them go unopposed as it was anything on AEW’s side.

Sting, Shaq — big stuff advertised. They can’t keep this pace up, so to call it the new normal would be short-sighted.


----------



## RapShepard

Great number for them got a solid boost of, almost 100k for Sting and Omega win. Now they need to keep momentum. You'd have to be a real stickler to knock 995k


----------



## 3venflow

TKO Wrestling said:


> TNT got a steal with AEW. I can't get over it.


Yep, I imagine they will be announcing the second show soon.

And if it's unopposed by wrestling, AEW should be looking to feature some big names on it and see what sort of ratings it can do. They have enough of a roster now to have guys like Brodie, Cage, Hangman on a second show. Not a brand split, but an intelligent usage of talent across three hours of TV.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Very good rating - I predicted 975k and 0.40 I think, so slightly better than I accepted. Next week will be interesting, they will drop imo but the main aim should be to bring the 750-800k average up consistently. If they can hover around the 850-900k mark regularly that'd be a good start.


----------



## rbl85

zaz102 said:


> Yeah, If true, I think it highlights how insignificant ratings are (not completely though). Isn't WWE doing better financially than ever.
> 
> Question for you though (or anybody), what does long term success look like? Like I doubt any show goes instantly from 800k to 1M viewers permanently. I assume that would be very impressive.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


People always compare today's ratings with the ratings of 20 years ago but it's 2 complete different world.

20 years ago if you wanted to watch a TV show the only way was to watch it live on the TV but now you can watch shows on so many platforms.


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Aew growing every week 0.37, 0.42 & now 0.45.
> *Projections to catch raw have speed up - so close now.
> At this rate will become no.1 wrestling show on cable sometime in first half of next year*


Lmao they're killing it, but you don't believe this


----------



## Chip Chipperson

rbl85 said:


> People always compare today's ratings with the ratings of 20 years ago but it's 2 complete different world.
> 
> 20 years ago if you wanted to watch a TV show the only way was to watch it live on the TV but now you can watch shows on so many platforms.


We can't see those numbers though therefore we can't discuss them.

If we go down that route NXT probably wins every week btw


----------



## Bubbly

Chip Chipperson said:


> 995k would have to be a disappointment. I'd say more but can be misconstrued as baiting or gloating


Nah if you expect a million, and this is literally 5k below that, then it's about 'par' I would say. Next week is interesting.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> Lmao they're killing it, but you don't believe this


Aew 0.45 to Raw 0.51 this week. Smallest gap yet


----------



## Ozell Gray

AEW are hotshotting way too much trying to beat NXT which will run thin soon like it did for WCW when they were doing it. They gave away their biggest match on Dynamite, Omega vs Moxley which is their Goldberg vs Hogan. This isn't sustainable long term. 

NXT didn't try to compete with these shows either and are just doing their own thing. They know this type of booking works in the short term but gets burned out in the long run. So they're letting AEW blow their load now and then they'll have nothing left to offer the viewers and will suffer the same date that WCW and TNA did.


----------



## RapShepard

Chip Chipperson said:


> AEW have stacked the last two weeks. They need to stop hotshotting and just build stories.
> 
> Do a 5 year plan instead of trying to compete now.


I mean they can do both if they do it right. I mean the wrestling people long for in the MNW wasn't exactly throwing out shit shows in the name of long term build.


----------



## RiverFenix

AEW will air after NBA on the 23rd, so roughly a 10:30 start time that night. It would make sense to have Shaq wrestle (assuming that is what this is all leading up to) BUT Shaq might be a NBA in-studio analyst that night andunable to appear.


----------



## zaz102

fabi1982 said:


> Long term success would be a constant 1m with spikes to 1.4m, now they average what? Like 850?
> And all you see with the ratings the last two weeks is that even the precious AEW cant do shit without surprises/old guys/non-wrestling people. Just look at the shows before that and their ratings. AEW is in the same position WWE is, they just have the plus that they can take in WWE guys/oldtimersand have something fresh. WWE did it all already and also for AEW it will get stale


I think you underestimate WWE. I think they are much better off than AEW.

Is there like a monthly average of ratings. It would be interesting to see if AEW is making true progress.

Also, whats with the "precious AEW" talk? You're on an AEW forum, you should probably expect AEW fans.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## Bubbly

Chip Chipperson said:


> AEW have stacked the last two weeks. They need to stop hotshotting and just* build stories.*
> 
> Do a 5 year plan instead of trying to compete now.


But the Sting + Omega storylines are only just starting? They are building there. To what standard is obviously up for debate.


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> Lmao they're killing it, but you don't believe this


In the demo it's not impossible but in number of viewers it's close to impossible.


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Aew 0.45 to Raw 0.51 this week. Smallest gap yet


And they still lost significantly in the demo and viewer numbers despite having the aftermath of Sting debut and Kenny winning as a reason to watch this week. AEW is certainly killing it, but You're not making a logical prediction on such limited data.


----------



## fabi1982

zaz102 said:


> I think you underestimate WWE. I think they are much better off than AEW.
> 
> Is there like a monthly average of ratings. It would be interesting to see if AEW is making true progress.
> 
> Also, whats with the "precious AEW" talk? You're on an AEW forum, you should probably expect AEW fans.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


That was an exaggeration to show that the so different AEW has to do WWE tricks to spike a rating. But just look how their „fans“ compare yoy without any context, so maybe all these words are useless, because you cant argue delusional thinking.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

RapShepard said:


> I mean they can do both if they do it right. I mean the wrestling people long for in the MNW wasn't exactly throwing out shit shows in the name of long term build.


Hotshotting never works long term. With the wars you had kick ass shows but they only hotshotted when desperate.

Back in the day when territory business was down a promoter would hotshot the territory, bring big crowds, sell it off then the territory would drop leaving the new owner grasping at anything to save his investment.

With Snoop Dogg and three TV specials coming in the next month it seems like the hotshot will continue but how long is it sustainable for?


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> And they still lost significantly in the demo and viewer numbers despite having the aftermath of Sting debut and Kenny winning as a reason to watch this week. AEW is certainly killing it, but You're not making a logical prediction on such limited data.


You're need to know about the long term trends which show raw quickly declining & aew steadily climbing. Certainly possible that aew could be top ranked show at some stage in next 6 months or earlier - raw's lowest demo is about 0.47 this year


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Ozell Gray said:


> AEW are hotshotting way too much trying to beat NXT which will run thin soon like it did for WCW when they were doing it. They gave away their biggest match on Dynamite, Omega vs Moxley which is their Goldberg vs Hogan. This isn't sustainable long term.
> 
> NXT didn't try to compete with these shows either and are just doing their own thing. They know this type of booking works in the short term but gets burned out in the long run. So they're letting AEW blow their load now and then they'll have nothing left to offer the viewers and will suffer the same date that WCW and TNA did.


I don't see it as hotshotting by AEW. Other folks complain that stories are too long term, you can't win lol. I think they do a good mix of both personally. Mox v Omega was a big match for TV but that's not a bad thing! Just enjoy it ha. They only do 4 ppv's per year and if they do Mox/Omega 3 at the next one that's an even bigger match and you get the best of both worlds. 

No need to bring NXT into this convo, they're a long way off.


----------



## Erik.

Pentagon Senior said:


> I don't see it as hotshotting by AEW. Other folks complain that stories are too long term, you can't win lol. I think they do a good mix of both personally. Mox v Omega was a big match for TV but that's not a bad thing! Just enjoy it ha. They only do 4 ppv's per year and if they do Mox/Omega 3 at the next one that's an even bigger match and you get the best of both worlds.
> 
> No need to bring NXT into this convo, they're a long way off.


Wouldn't even bother mate.

He's the residential troll that spends more time in the AEW section than any other.


----------



## RapShepard

Chip Chipperson said:


> Hotshotting never works long term. With the wars you had kick ass shows but they only hotshotted when desperate.
> 
> Back in the day when territory business was down a promoter would hotshot the territory, bring big crowds, sell it off then the territory would drop leaving the new owner grasping at anything to save his investment.
> 
> With Snoop Dogg and three TV specials coming in the next month it seems like the hotshot will continue but how long is it sustainable for?


It depends on what they do with the shows, specials, and appearances. 

Can they give satisfying ends to a couple current storylines? 

Can they use the specials to further expand some current stories?

Can they use the time to start off new stories that will culminate come Revolution?

If they can do C+ or better type work in all 3 of those categories I'd have to say that it's probably worth it.


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> You're need to know about the long term trends which show raw quickly declining & aew steadily climbing. Certainly possible that aew could be top ranked show at some stage in next 6 months or earlier - raw's lowest demo is about 0.47 this year


Which mean at their lowest they're still higher than the number AEW just got that you're saying is the catalyst for them possibly taking the top spot. As of right now what you're talking is wishful thinking and not really a credible prediction.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

RapShepard said:


> It depends on what they do with the shows, specials, and appearances.
> 
> Can they give satisfying ends to a couple current storylines?
> 
> Can they use the specials to further expand some current stories?
> 
> Can they use the time to start off new stories that will culminate come Revolution?
> 
> If they can do C+ or better type work in all 3 of those categories I'd have to say that it's probably worth it.


Too many specials and it's too busy. Great for the fans no doubt and they'll do good stuff along the way but I think Tony should stop hotshotting now.


----------



## zaz102

RapShepard said:


> It depends on what they do with the shows, specials, and appearances.
> 
> Can they give satisfying ends to a couple current storylines?
> 
> Can they use the specials to further expand some current stories?
> 
> Can they use the time to start off new stories that will culminate come Revolution?
> 
> If they can do C+ or better type work in all 3 of those categories I'd have to say that it's probably worth it.


I don't know what works or doesn't, but I do know WCW, WWF/WWE, and TNA "hotshotted" throughout large chunks of their existences.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## Pentagon Senior

RapShepard said:


> It depends on what they do with the shows, specials, and appearances.
> 
> Can they give satisfying ends to a couple current storylines?
> 
> Can they use the specials to further expand some current stories?
> 
> Can they use the time to start off new stories that will culminate come Revolution?
> 
> If they can do C+ or better type work in all 3 of those categories I'd have to say that it's probably worth it.


Agreed. With only 4 ppv's per year and most of your income coming from TV it makes sense to put good stuff on there occasionally too. It's not hotshotting - you just need to find the right balance.


----------



## bdon

Hotshotting is fine when you have something planned to capitalize on the hotshotting.

AEW doesn’t know how to do a single fall out show, so they dropped the ball and wasted the signing of Sting.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> Which mean at they're lowest they're still higher than the number AEW just got that you're saying is the catalyst for them possibly taking the top spot. As of right now what you're talking is wishful thinking and not really a credible prediction.


That's exactly what I am saying!!
Aew highest this year 0.45
Raw lowest 0.47

Aew steadily increasing
Raw trending down all year

If the chances of aew out pointing raw some time in next six months in realms of your mind are impossible then I don't know what to tell you.

Numbers show it's very much possible. Trends suggest it's almost a certainty


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pentagon Senior said:


> Agreed. With only 4 ppv's per year and most of your income coming from TV it makes sense to put good stuff on there occasionally too. It's not hotshotting - you just need to find the right balance.


It is hotshotting. TNA went with this method and it killed their business.

First people stopped buying PPV because they would get fun gimmick matches on TV and PPV was no longer worth the money

Second, they offered so much on TV that people eventually got worn out and stopped tuning in.

Admittedly this took about a year or two but they're the most recent example of hotshotting killing a promotion.


----------



## The Wood

zaz102 said:


> I don't know what works or doesn't, but I do know WCW, WWF/WWE, and TNA "hotshotted" throughout large chunks of their existences.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


And how has that worked out for them



bdon said:


> Hotshotting is fine when you have something planned to capitalize on the hotshotting.
> 
> AEW doesn’t know how to do a single fall out show, so they dropped the ball and wasted the signing of Sting.


This. Hot-shotting is great for getting eyes onto your product. But then you need to pull back, because if you do it all the time then how do you expect it to work as a stunt?


----------



## omaroo

For what was an ok show, great rating as you would have thought.

Cant seem them being above 950k next week if I am being honest.

As we know rating go up and down weekly for them and expect them around the 750k-800k mark next week.


----------



## tower_

Pippen94 said:


> When have young ppl ever had more money than old ppl?!


It's not that they have more money or even spend more of it, it's that they can be advertised to. Old folks are set in their ways more or less. How much new music do your parents consume? Now what about a 20 year old?


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pentagon Senior said:


> I don't see it as hotshotting by AEW. Other folks complain that stories are too long term, you can't win lol. I think they do a good mix of both personally. Mox v Omega was a big match for TV but that's not a bad thing! Just enjoy it ha. They only do 4 ppv's per year and if they do Mox/Omega 3 at the next one that's an even bigger match and you get the best of both worlds.
> 
> No need to bring NXT into this convo, they're a long way off.


Long term storylines are better than hotshotting though. Omega vs Moxley and the title change is something you save for the PPV not give away on Dynamite. 

NXT are only 200,000 viewers away from Dynamite so they're not that far off from each other as you'd think.


----------



## RapShepard

Chip Chipperson said:


> Too many specials and it's too busy. Great for the fans no doubt and they'll do good stuff along the way but I think Tony should stop hotshotting now.


I agree it's a damn lot of specials and if everything is a special then nothing's special lol. But as much as I don't like Sting him and Kenny winning the title clearly has some momentum. If they can maintain it and book good things alongside it who knows what affect it has on how people feel about them.


zaz102 said:


> I don't know what works or doesn't, but I do know WCW, WWF/WWE, and TNA "hotshotted" throughout large chunks of their existences.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


They definitely did


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Ozell Gray said:


> Long term storylines are better than hotshotting though. Omega vs Moxley and the title change is something you save for the PPV not give away on Dynamite.


Yep. Mox Vs Omega was huge and a PPV main event given away for free.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Chip Chipperson said:


> It is hotshotting. TNA went with this method and it killed their business.
> 
> First people stopped buying PPV because they would get fun gimmick matches on TV and PPV was no longer worth the money
> 
> Second, they offered so much on TV that people eventually got worn out and stopped tuning in.
> 
> Admittedly this took about a year or two but they're the most recent example of hotshotting killing a promotion.


Nah it's not hotshotting bro

Ppv buys have remained constant, TV ratings have either remained constant or grown since they settled around week 5. No sign of burnout from the fans yet, beyond hypothetical predictions 

We still have Mox/Omega 3, Page/Omega 2 and Sting to come next year. Miro will get his push as will others. Lots of young talent to bring through too. And then who knows who else they sign etc

And only 4 ppv's so give me some of it on free TV please


----------



## zaz102

The Wood said:


> And how has that worked out for them
> 
> 
> 
> This. Hot-shotting is great for getting eyes onto your product. But then you need to pull back, because if you do it all the time then how do you expect it to work as a stunt?


How did hotshotting work for the biggest wrestling companies of all time? I would say as well as possible, since no wrestling company has done better than them.



Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Ozell Gray said:


> *Long term storylines are better than hotshotting though.* Omega vs Moxley and the title change is something you save for the PPV not give away on Dynamite.
> 
> NXT are *only 200,000* viewers away from Dynamite so they're not that far off from each other as you'd think.


You must love the Omega/Page long term storyline then

If my gran *only* had 2 balls she'd be my grandad


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pentagon Senior said:


> Nah it's not hotshotting bro
> 
> Ppv buys have remained constant, TV ratings have either remained constant or grown since they settled around week 5. No sign of burnout from the fans yet, beyond hypothetical predictions
> 
> We still have Mox/Omega 3, Page/Omega 2 and Sting to come next year. Miro will get his push as will others. Lots of young talent to bring through too. And then who knows who else they sign etc
> 
> And only 4 ppv's so give me some of it on free TV please


Yeah it hasn't hurt anything yet because it's only been a month or two of hotshotting. I'd say six months is when you'll start to notice a little drop if they continue to hotshot.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah it hasn't hurt anything yet because it's only been a month or two of hotshotting. I'd say six months is when you'll start to notice a little drop if they continue to hotshot.


Let's finish this convo in 6 months then and enjoy the moment for now 🙌


----------



## DaSlacker

Pentagon Senior said:


> I don't see it as hotshotting by AEW. Other folks complain that stories are too long term, you can't win lol. I think they do a good mix of both personally. Mox v Omega was a big match for TV but that's not a bad thing! Just enjoy it ha. They only do 4 ppv's per year and if they do Mox/Omega 3 at the next one that's an even bigger match and you get the best of both worlds.
> 
> No need to bring NXT into this convo, they're a long way off.


Yep. Running a rematch that has been building for a year and debuting a legend and having a celeb show up isn't hotshotting. They've been fairly refrained. It's natural storytelling - peaks and troughs. The Omega heel turn and tie in with Impact raises more questions than it answers. Plus, they also have the option of moving Page, Miro, Rhodes, Pac, Hardy etc up into the title scene. All have been protected enough.

It's not like WWF suffered in the 80's when they ran Hogan/Andre #2 and Hogan/Savage #2 on television. Or other big matches like Hogan/Piper, Warrior/Andre, Savage/Andre etc. Because the deals with MTV and NBC were more lucrative than PPV and home video.


----------



## tower_

I'm curious what the quarters are. I'd bet hour 1 did better than hour 2 but we'll see


----------



## 3venflow

I wouldn't consider Moxley vs. Kenny hotshotted because there was simply too much time between Full Gear and the next PPV to wait that long (close to four months). And Dynamite is their main source of income, so it made sense to promote a major episode of it and show that big things can happen.

With 900k+ eyes on the product (vs. 100k on PPV), they had the unbeaten Mox finally lose his belt to Omega, creating a new main event star and heel in the process. And setting the tone for 2021 by creating some storyline intrigue. Kenny's momentum would have stalled if he had to wait until February 27 for his shot and Mox was running out of challengers.

Promotions have always done big title changes on TV. Remember the huge number Mankind/Rock pulled? As long as it's not a regular thing.

If anything, I think AEW is quite frugal with their big matches compared to WWE where they run so many named/big shows that they exhaust every possible combo over and over. Dynamite this week had a bunch of undercarders in the matches, with the biggest being MJF vs. Orange in the main event. Underneath, we had staples of Dark, TH2 and the Varsity Blondes, plus Abadon beating a nobody.

There are still a ton of fresh matches AEW could do or even ones from the past that could be renewed (ie. MJF/Cody) given how long it will have been. They're in no danger of running out of combinations... and if they do, well they're forging working relationships with other companies right now and could find options there.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

DaSlacker said:


> Yep. Running a rematch that has been building for a year and debuting a legend and having a celeb show up isn't hotshotting. They've been fairly refrained. It's natural storytelling - peaks and troughs. The Omega heel turn and tie in with Impact raises more questions than it answers. Plus, they also have the option of moving Page, Miro, Rhodes, Pac, Hardy etc up into the title scene. All have been protected enough.
> 
> It's not like WWF suffered in the 80's when they ran Hogan/Andre #2 and Hogan/Savage #2 on television. Or other big matches like Hogan/Piper, Warrior/Andre, Savage/Andre etc. Because the deals with MTV and NBC were more lucrative than PPV and home video.


You need to find a balance between both. The matches booked this week weren't so remarkable, for instance.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DaSlacker said:


> Yep. Running a rematch that has been building for a year and debuting a legend and having a celeb show up isn't hotshotting. They've been fairly refrained. It's natural storytelling - peaks and troughs. The Omega heel turn and tie in with Impact raises more questions than it answers. Plus, they also have the option of moving Page, Miro, Rhodes, Pac, Hardy etc up into the title scene. All have been protected enough.
> 
> It's not like WWF suffered in the 80's when they ran Hogan/Andre #2 and Hogan/Savage #2 on television. Or other big matches like Hogan/Piper, Warrior/Andre, Savage/Andre etc. Because the deals with MTV and NBC were more lucrative than PPV and home video.


It's not just big matches. They're doing lots of gimmick matches, big debuts, celebrities, tv specials on TV.

I'm happy to discuss again in six months but they're "hotshotting the territory" for sure bro


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> That's exactly what I am saying!!
> Aew highest this year 0.45
> Raw lowest 0.47
> 
> Aew steadily increasing
> Raw trending down all year
> 
> If the chances of aew out pointing raw some time in next six months in realms of your mind are impossible then I don't know what to tell you.
> 
> Numbers show it's very much possible. Trends suggest it's almost a certainty


you're taking a month of ratings and making a ludicrous predicament. In the last month the lowest demo AEW got is a . 3, the lowest Raw got was a .47 for an hour .5 for the whole show. AEWs low is significantly lower and their high is still lower. 

You'd be a bad financial advisor to tell folk to buy into this, At least at this point.


----------



## Pippen94

tower_ said:


> I'm curious what the quarters are. I'd bet hour 1 did better than hour 2 but we'll see


Another minute to minute million to orange cassidy I bet


----------



## Ozell Gray

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yep. Mox Vs Omega was huge and a PPV main event given away for free.


Yeah the title change should've been on the PPV not given away for free. This is Tony Khan thinking short term not long term. 



Pentagon Senior said:


> You must love the Omega/Page long term storyline then
> 
> If my gran *only* had 2 balls she'd be my grandad


Hogan vs The Rock had a long term storyline, Hogan vs Andre had a long term storyline, Hogan vs Savage had a long term storyline, Savage vs Flair ha d a long term storyline, and Cena vs The Rock had a long term storyline. Omega vs Moxley should've been saved for the PPV because the title change would've made the PPV worth buying because of the title change but they instead gave it away for free. Thats the very definition of hotshotting.

It's not hurting them now but in do time like in 6 months or a year they'll be hurting big time for their short term thinking. WCW and TNA did the samething and it hurt both and WWE are doing the samething and they're hurting. AEW will be no different.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> you're taking a month of ratings and making a ludicrous predicament. In the last month the lowest demo AEW got is a . 3, the lowest Raw got was a .47 for an hour .5 for the whole show. AEWs low is significantly lower and their high is still lower.
> 
> You'd be a bad financial advisor to tell folk to buy into this, At least at this point.


0.45 is not significantly lower than 0.50 or 0.47 - it's neck & neck!!!!!!

You think it's impossible ratings can't shift a few points either side - it's even in woods margin or error!!!!

That's not even taking into account trends. Pick any week in January or even middle of year & look at gap in demo.


----------



## Dark Emperor

I think that's a really good rating, especially the viewership. I was expecting less so a washed up Sting really did bring in decent numbers.

It'll be almost impossible to sustain it but this week was great.


----------



## Joe Gill

Dark Emperor said:


> I think that's a really good rating, especially the viewership. I was expecting less so a washed up Sting really did bring in decent numbers.
> 
> *It'll be almost impossible to sustain it but this week was great.*


maybe if they followed up last week with a great card it would have been possible... instead it was dustin rhodes vs dark order and indy tag matches. No Moxley, OC in the main event... it was a blown opportunity to continue the momentum... just look at next weeks card its trash.


----------



## bdon

Dark Emperor said:


> I think that's a really good rating, especially the viewership. I was expecting less so a washed up Sting really did bring in decent numbers.
> 
> It'll be almost impossible to sustain it but this week was great.


It wouldn’t haven been impossible to sustain if they put a good show on last night and repeated that.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Ozell Gray said:


> Yeah the title change should've been on the PPV not given away for free. This is Tony Khan thinking short term not long term.
> 
> 
> 
> Hogan vs The Rock had a long term storyline, Hogan vs Andre had a long term storyline, Hogan vs Savage had a long term storyline, Savage vs Flair ha d a long term storyline, and Cena vs The Rock had a long term storyline. Omega vs Moxley should've been saved for the PPV because the title change would've made the PPV worth buying because of the title change but they instead gave it away for free. Thats the very definition of hotshotting.
> 
> It's not hurting them now but in do time like in 6 months or a year they'll be hurting big time for their short term thinking. WCW and TNA did the samething and it hurt both and WWE are doing the samething and they're hurting. AEW will be no different.



I don't watch WWE bro

You keep missing the point they only do 4 ppv's - to not do big matches outside of that would be ludicrous lol. They could do Mox/Omega 3 at next ppv and it'd be even bigger because 1) the history 2) they left a lot behind in the ring

Another wild prediction about AEW in danger in the future - original - but forgive me if I don't put too much stock in that because I've heard it before


----------



## bdon

Joe Gill said:


> maybe if they followed up last week with a great card it would have been possible... instead it was dustin rhodes vs dark order and indy tag matches. No Moxley, OC in the main event... it was a blown opportunity to continue the momentum... just look at next weeks card its trash.


You beat me to it.


----------



## Dark Emperor

bdon said:


> It wouldn’t haven been impossible to sustain if they put a good show on last night and repeated that.


I'm not sure, wrestling never really sustain bumps in ratings these days. Only one that did recently was Smackdown but i guess they did have a few engaging stories. 2 of those stories are over and rating is going down slightly again. So it's hard to keep peoples attention

I never watch wrestling live and that's the same for most people. So unless big things are advertised, most of these people won't tune in again live but may watch later.


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> 0.45 is not significantly lower than 0.50 or 0.47 - it's neck & neck!!!!!!
> 
> You think it's impossible ratings can't shift a few points either side - it's even in woods margin or error!!!!
> 
> That's not even taking into account trends. Pick any week in January or even middle of year & look at gap in demo.


You misread I said AEWs lowest of the last month of a . 3 demo is significantly lower than WWE's lowest of .47(hour) or .5 (whole show). By your own words AEWs best is lower than WWE's worst. 

You keep saying trend, but nobody sane would make this assumption off of 1 month with major things going on. It's just not realistic to predict get. It's wishful thinking.


----------



## Lenny Leonard

So they had to bring in a part timer and a celebrity. Doesn't that prove their guys can't draw?


----------



## omaroo

With how the card looks next week. Not many big names, I would be surprised if they get over 900k next week.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> You misread I said AEWs lowest of the last month of a . 3 demo is significantly lower than WWE's lowest of .47(hour) or .5 (whole show). By your own words AEWs best is lower than WWE's worst.
> 
> You keep saying trend, but nobody sane would make this assumption off of 1 month with major things going on. It's just not realistic to predict get. It's wishful thinking.


It's based off long term trend of demo gap closing


----------



## Ace

Fantastic rating.

Hunter and WWE are getting humiliated here big time, TK showing that he's a far better booker than him.

They can't afford to move NXT either because AEW will only grow closer to Raw and SD.

So they're getting fucked each week in the ratings and they can't do anything to try grow NXT. The reality is its counter programming, they do not give a fuck about NXT doing well, it's about ensuring AEW doesn't grow into a real threat.


----------



## zaz102

Lenny Leonard said:


> So they had to bring in a part timer and a celebrity. Doesn't that prove their guys can't draw?


WWE does this all the time and I think you'd have to be ignorant to think they dont draw.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Dark Emperor said:


> *I'm not sure, wrestling never really sustain bumps in ratings these days.* Only one that did recently was Smackdown but i guess they did have a few engaging stories. 2 of those stories are over and rating is going down slightly again. So it's hard to keep peoples attention
> 
> I never watch wrestling live and that's the same for most people. So unless big things are advertised, most of these people won't tune in again live but may watch later.


Agreed. Don't think there's much hope of sustaining 1m short term but the aim for AEW should be to grow the 750-800k average over time, plus the demo

I do think they dropped the ball this week but I don't think they'd be likely to retain 1m either way. Steady growth is needed though


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> It's based off long term trend of demo gap closing


Except its not a long term trend when you're only basing this off a month of shows. You're acting as if AEW hasn't gone up and down in the ratings all year just because the last month they've done solid in going up. History shows that they go up sometimes, then they go down for a bit, then they go down.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> Except its not a long term trend when you're only basing this off a month of shows. You're acting as if AEW hasn't gone up and down in the ratings all year just because the last month they've done solid in going up. History shows that they go up sometimes, then they go down for a bit, then they go down.


Ratings fluctuate week to week is phrase you're looking for. Also month to month, but long term i.e. this year; raw demo has dropped significantly while aew has risen. 

Are you going to deny raw's huge drop?!

If you want to double down on bad argument & pretend 0.05 is some impregnable barrier that can't be crossed I don't wanna hear it


----------



## bdon

Pentagon Senior said:


> Agreed. Don't think there's much hope of sustaining 1m short term but the aim for AEW should be to grow the 750-800k average over time, plus the demo
> 
> I do think they dropped the ball this week but I don't think they'd be likely to retain 1m either way. Steady growth is needed though


No, the point was to put on a goddamn card worthy of raising the floor of their rating from 750k to 850k and raising their ceiling from 950k to 1.1m viewers.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

bdon said:


> No, the point was to put on a goddamn card worthy of raising the floor of their rating from 750k to 850k and raising their ceiling from 950k to 1.1m viewers.


Yeh I think we agree 👍

Next week will be very interesting but as ever consistency and average ratings over time are key


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Ratings fluctuate week to week is phrase you're looking for. Also month to month, but long term i.e. this year; raw demo has dropped significantly while aew has risen.
> 
> Are you going to deny raw's huge drop?!
> 
> If you want to double down on bad argument & pretend 0.05 is some impregnable barrier that can't be crossed I don't wanna hear it


Think of what you're saying here.

Raw dropped huge this year, yet their worst rating out did AEWs best. You're predicting in 6 months they can catch them. Do you think they can realistically keep the same momentum of leading into Moxley vs Omega and Sting debuting for 6 months without going back to their normal. 

Can they maybe catch them one day if they continue to grow and get people to tune in sure. But them permanently toppling Raw in the next 6 months is an absurd prediction. Your best hope is that maybe come college Football championships Raw is really low and AEW puts on a special show the same week.


----------



## Bubbly

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yep. Mox Vs Omega was huge and a PPV main event given away for free.


It's true but at the same time, ratings are now more important than PPV. If that match could help give them a boost and they ride that momentum, then they will be able to get huge money for the next contract.

It actually makes more sense today than ever before to give away matches "for free" on the weekly show.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Bubbly said:


> It's true but at the same time, ratings are now more important than PPV. If that match could help give them a boost and they ride that momentum, then they will be able to get huge money for the next contract.
> 
> It actually makes more sense today than ever before to give away matches "for free" on the weekly show.


Yeh and they tend to get consistent ppv rates anyway whilst the TV ratings fluctuate more. Makes sense to put effort into TV esp with only 4 annual ppv's


----------



## Mr316

The Wood said:


> This has been a stacked couple of weeks against an NXT that hasn’t been up to much. Yeah, they had War Games, but go-homes and post-shows mean so little these days (and this is the fault of wrestling and it deserves to wear it). NXT was especially weak last week. It was as much an experiment on their end letting them go unopposed as it was anything on AEW’s side.
> 
> Sting, Shaq — big stuff advertised. They can’t keep this pace up, so to call it the new normal would be short-sighted.


Dude, I often agree with you but putting NXT in the same conversation as AEW has now become ridiculous. Look at the numbers. NXT’s numbers are embarrassing. We’re talking about a show in primetime on the USA network. Their numbers are sad.


----------



## Whoanma

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1337141355097821189


----------



## Prosper

Lenny Leonard said:


> So they had to bring in a part timer and a celebrity. Doesn't that prove their guys can't draw?


No one is a real draw anymore my guy, not even the likes of Brock Lesnar and Ronda Rousey. If they can’t draw no one is in the current wrestling climate.


----------



## Bubbly

prosperwithdeen said:


> No one is a real draw anymore my guy, not even the likes of Brock Lesnar and Ronda Rousey. If they can’t draw no one is in the current wrestling climate.


Supposedly Brock was a _huge _reason why WWE got that huge tv deal with Fox, if that counts as being a draw. It's all about tv money now, rather than drawing at the gate.


----------



## One Shed

It was a great rating and I expected it to break a million (you can go back and look) based on the great show last week. It is a damn shame they decided to have a mostly horrible show last night. Blows my mind actually. I expect next week to dip again and many on here to be confused as to why.


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> It was a great rating and I expected it to break a million (you can go back and look) based on the great show last week. It is a damn shame they decided to have a mostly horrible show last night. Blows my mind actually. I expect next week to dip again and many on here to be confused as to why.


Many will claim it’s just the up and down nature of AEW without asking themselves what may be going on further...


----------



## Shleppy

A very good rating and close enough to 1 million

It's thrilling that there is another American wrestling promotion in 2020 doing numbers that are not too far off from WWE Raw, which is a disaster right now and ratings are falling off a cliff


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pentagon Senior said:


> I don't watch WWE bro
> 
> You keep missing the point they only do 4 ppv's - to not do big matches outside of that would be ludicrous lol. They could do Mox/Omega 3 at next ppv and it'd be even bigger because 1) the history 2) they left a lot behind in the ring
> 
> Another wild prediction about AEW in danger in the future - original - but forgive me if I don't put too much stock in that because I've heard it before



4 PPVs a year doesn’t excuse the hotshot booking which you ignored. The next Omega vs Moxley match won’t mean anything because it was already seen 2 times before. Title changes and a big match like that should only be on PPVs not free tv. 

It doesn’t look like their in danger now because their numbers are consistently in the 800,000 viewership range but long term is where the damage is which is what I’m talking about.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> Think of what you're saying here.
> 
> Raw dropped huge this year, yet their worst rating out did AEWs best. You're predicting in 6 months they can catch them. Do you think they can realistically keep the same momentum of leading into Moxley vs Omega and Sting debuting for 6 months without going back to their normal.
> 
> Can they maybe catch them one day if they continue to grow and get people to tune in sure. But them permanently toppling Raw in the next 6 months is an absurd prediction. Your best hope is that maybe come college Football championships Raw is really low and AEW puts on a special show the same week.


Well you've conceded my point by moving to can't win "permanently"

Don't see how anybody can argue against trends which are an actual thing but there you go

Of course projections no guarantee of outcome but if ppl not basing predictions on data what are ppl basing it on?!


----------



## bdon

Shleppy said:


> A very good rating and close enough to 1 million
> 
> It's thrilling that there is another American wrestling promotion in 2020 doing numbers that are not too far off from WWE Raw, which is a disaster right now and ratings are falling off a cliff


What would have been really awesome would have been if they planned accordingly and had another fire episode after last week’s surprise filled spectacle.

If someone like my boy, @Chip Chipperson , who is obviously a little more critical of the product than others watched last week and pops when he sees Sting, what do you think a lot lapsed fans thought? You had a chance to display the very best of AEW with a Kenny promo, Moxley discussing his revenge, Cody and Team Taz together, Page in action being his best drunken self, etc.

And they chose, with the world’s eye on them, to showcase a 51 year old Dustin (Nightmare Family) vs a rarely used 10 (Nightmare School), who lost to said 51 year old for no reason... you had Page in a segment that he was laughing about with the two biggest goofballs in AEW sans Orange Cassidy... your biggest goof in Orange Cassidy main eventing and nearly winning...

In time, lapsed fans can learn to care for these characters, but when you’ve not watched “since back in the day when wrestling was good”, ie late 90s/early 00s, you are not going to fall in love instantly with that show they placed on last night. That was a show for those diehards who will tune into whether it is Wednesday or Tuesday or even a random late night Saturday showing.

You only get so many opportunities to excite new fans.


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> *Well you've conceded my point by moving to can't win "permanently"
> 
> Don't see how anybody can argue against trends which are an actual thing but there you go
> 
> Of course projections no guarantee of outcome but if ppl not basing predictions on data what are ppl basing it on?!*


*

I'm saying usually people make these sort of predictions with more data at hand. If this was like month 3 of rising demo ratings I'd see where you're going. But this seems premature at the moment.

And no I conceded nothing, you said that AEW would become the number 1 wrestling show on cable in the first half of 2021. That means you think they permanently replace Raw at the top by the end of June not just get a random one off win. That's a crazy prediction. 



Pippen94 said:



Aew growing every week 0.37, 0.42 & now 0.45.
Projections to catch raw have speed up - so close now.
At this rate will become no.1 wrestling show on cable sometime in first half of next year

Click to expand...



That's the argument we're discussing. It's crazy.*


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> What would have been really awesome would have been if they planned accordingly and had another fire episode after last week’s surprise filled spectacle.
> 
> 
> 
> You only get so many opportunities to excite new fans.


Yeah they certainly didn't seem to put the best out there as far as matches go. Segment wise I get it. Match choices were weird.


----------



## Not Lying

bdon said:


> Many will claim it’s just the up and down nature of AEW without asking themselves *what may be going on further...*


What do you think is going on further?

It was an alright show, and yeah that's been the nature of AEW.

They build for a show, and then take a step back. It's like 3 steps forward, 2 steps backwards. But that's why I say the company is moving forward, hopefully they learn from their mistakes, but they are moving forward and I take into consideration that their ratings would definitely be better and the show would feel better with a full house. 

I didn't think anything was not "Dynamite" worthy yesterday except Dustin/10/Uno promo and FTR/VB could have been done on Dark. The Inner Circle stuff was also alright it got some shine for Wardlow, Ortiz and Sammy, but they've been teasing for so long without doing anything it's become redundant. I'm pretty sure Bucks/TH2 is going to do good numbers, Sting/Omega/MJF-OC were good pillars.


----------



## bdon

The Definition of Technician said:


> What do you think is going on further?
> 
> It was an alright show, and yeah that's been the nature of AEW.
> 
> They build for a show, and then take a step back. It's like 3 steps forward, 2 steps backwards. But that's why I say the company is moving forward, hopefully they learn from their mistakes, but they are moving forward and I take into consideration that their ratings would definitely be better and the show would feel better with a full house.
> 
> I didn't think anything was not "Dynamite" worthy yesterday except Dustin/10/Uno promo and FTR/VB could have been done on Dark. The Inner Circle stuff was also alright it got some shine for Wardlow, Ortiz and Sammy, but they've been teasing for so long without doing anything it's become redundant. I'm pretty sure Bucks/TH2 is going to do good numbers, Sting/Omega/MJF-OC were good pillars.


“Further” meaning bad booking in general.


----------



## VIP86

it was predictable that they won't get a million or more
the show was average, they should have put more effort than what they did
and i'm afraid it may hurt them in the ratings next week

that being said, they maintained their position as number 2 on cable for the second week in a row and gained 82000 viewers more than last week
i can't in good conscience put a negative spin on that

also it's normal that HHH is getting fucked hard for three weeks in a row now, both in the overall viewers and in the demo
NXT is just a wrestling school after all that WWE desperately wants to present as something bigger

that's why i wish AEW personnel stop mentioning NXT, don't put yourself in competition with an inferior side


----------



## CM Buck

Chip Chipperson said:


> I got a warning for much less yesterday. FFTG told me gloating is now not allowed. I told him he'd be having a busy day
> 
> @Firefromthegods
> 
> Also, AEW won't be number one they haven't even cracked a million overall yet. Chill


I sent you a message already. I screwed up on that. If you want a public apology I can do that too.

I apologise chip Chipperson for being too overzealous. I've been told I may have been a bit too harsh on some instances of baiting.

As long as its friendly you won't get punished. If its nasty you will.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Firefromthegods said:


> I sent you a message already. I screwed up on that. If you want a public apology I can do that too.
> 
> I apologise chip Chipperson for being too overzealous. I've been told I may have been a bit too harsh on some instances of baiting.
> 
> As long as its friendly you won't get punished. If its nasty you will.


No need for an apology. Still my buddy big dog 😎


----------



## CM Buck

Wait aew got close to one million viewers with this episode? Well it's official I just don't understand ratings. Does that mean the dark order are draws and TH2? Dustin and brandi?


----------



## bdon

Firefromthegods said:


> Wait aew got close to one million viewers with this episode? Well it's official I just don't understand ratings. Does that mean the dark order are draws and TH2? Dustin and brandi?


It means they’re going to fight tooth and nail to hit 850k next week, and they lost any goodwill that having Sting on air has done them.

They blew it last night. Choked.


----------



## CM Buck

bdon said:


> It means they’re going to fight tooth and nail to hit 850k next week, and they lost any goodwill that having Sting on air has done them.
> 
> They blew it last night. Choked.


I meant more they beat nxt this week. I thought of the 3 (the third being MLW) nxt was the better episode this week


----------



## sideon

VIP86 said:


> it was predictable that they won't get a million or more
> the show was average, they should have put more effort than what they did
> and i'm afraid it may hurt them in the ratings next week
> 
> that being said, they maintained their position as number 2 on cable for the second week in a row and gained 82000 viewers more than last week
> i can't in good conscience put a negative spin on that
> 
> also it's normal that HHH is getting fucked hard for three weeks in a row now, both in the overall viewers and in the demo
> *NXT is just a wrestling school after all that WWE desperately wants to present as something bigger*
> 
> that's why i wish AEW personnel stop mentioning NXT, don't put yourself in competition with an inferior side


If they were desperate they would send in the big guns to battle AEW, so far they've done Charlotte and Kevin Owens. That rating is a letdown because we all know that they felt like all the hype from last week and the inclusion of Shaq would get them pat the million mark, yet they still couldn't reach it and the hype will be gone completely by next week. Now all the AEW stans will act like the demo is still the most important when it really isn't when it comes to wrestling.


----------



## famicommander

Firefromthegods said:


> I meant more they beat nxt this week. I thought of the 3 (the third being MLW) nxt was the better episode this week


They had the aftermath of a title change, the Impact sheninigans buzz, Sting, and Shaq on the card. There was no way NXT was beating them this week.


----------



## DammitChrist

Firefromthegods said:


> Wait aew got close to one million viewers with this episode? Well it's official I just don't understand ratings. Does that mean the dark order are draws and TH2? Dustin and brandi?


Well, the show also had Orange Cassidy too in the main-event 

I kid though. I don’t ACTUALLY believe that someone on the show is a big TV draw. I think it’s really a collective effort from multiple (popular) AEW talents and the recent quality of Dynamite too that’s maintaining the ratings atm. 

It also helps that a big legend like Sting is around now in AEW.


----------



## One Shed

Firefromthegods said:


> Wait aew got close to one million viewers with this episode? Well it's official I just don't understand ratings. Does that mean the dark order are draws and TH2? Dustin and brandi?


The ratings generally lag by a week. A bottom episode like last night will likely bring them down a bit next week. Just like last night's rating is solidly because of the hype and delivery of last week's.


----------



## VIP86

sideon said:


> If they were desperate they would send in the big guns to battle AEW, so far they've done Charlotte and Kevin Owens. That rating is a letdown because we all know that they felt like all the hype from last week and the inclusion of Shaq would get them pat the million mark, yet they still couldn't reach it and the hype will be gone completely by next week. Now all the AEW stans will act like the demo is still the most important when it really isn't when it comes to wrestling.


WWE IS desperate, and if they could send in the big guns they would do it in a heartbeat
but they literally can't do it because it will affect the ratings of the main shows A LOT
Vince McMahon and HHH absolutely know that if the 600000 fans who watch NXT found out that they can see roman reigns, randy orton, aj styles, seth rollins, drew mcintyre on NXT, they won't even bother to stop and piss on RAW and Smackdown

do you think USA network and FOX would be happy losing 600000 viewers


----------



## DaSlacker

Chip Chipperson said:


> It's not just big matches. They're doing lots of gimmick matches, big debuts, celebrities, tv specials on TV.
> 
> I'm happy to discuss again in six months but they're "hotshotting the territory" for sure bro


A lot of gimmick matches? 

1 dog collar match
1 tables
1 cage
1 parking lot brawl
1 falls count anywhere
A handful of no dq matches in a kayfabe world which doesn't strictly enforce traditional rules

Understandable considering they've had to operate from a mall with barely any audience against another wrestling show. Plus there are no houseshows and only 4 PPVs. So everything is condensed onto one weekly show. 

20 years ago WWF and WCW would have booked all of those gimmick matches in one night. 

Big debuts? Miro, Archer, Cage, FTR, Sting, Lee, Hardy. So 7 widely recognisable names coming in. No diffent to times gone by. For example, in the early 90's, when I first started watching wrestling, I remember Vince bringing in Slaughter, Flair, LOD, Von Erich, Sid, Atlas, Shiek, Steamboat, Rotunda, Keirn, Callous, Destruction Crew and Nasty Boys in the space of a year. 

I'll criticise AEW for a lot of stuff but this kind of booking is run of the mill.


----------



## The Wood

VIP86 said:


> WWE IS desperate, and if they could send in the big guns they would do it in a heartbeat
> but they literally can't do it because it will affect the ratings of the main shows A LOT
> Vince McMahon and HHH absolutely know that if the 600000 fans who watch NXT found out that they can see roman reigns, randy orton, aj styles, seth rollins, drew mcintyre on NXT, they won't even bother to stop and piss on RAW and Smackdown
> 
> do you think USA network and FOX would be happy losing 600000 viewers


I’m sorry, but this is just not true. There’s absolutely nothing stopping WWE from using whoever they want on SmackDown and cross-pollinating. They wouldn’t lose many viewers at all. They also aren’t threatened by AEW at all. Over the course of a week, WWE gets 4.5 million viewers over 7 hours of programming in the US alone. They also send condensed programming and things like Main Event overseas.

A show that is still getting less than 1 million viewers and is probably about to decrease given they are adding an extra show on the cheap isn’t showing up in their rear view mirror.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> 995,000 with 0.45 demo.


that is so close to Dynamite 1’s demo of 0.46

pretty amazing

quite unfortunate there will be the normal focus on the ‘1 mil’


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> that is so close to Dynamite 1’s demo of 0.46
> 
> pretty amazing
> 
> quite unfortunate there will be the normal focus on the ‘1 mil’


The way it should be. Advertisers aren’t interested in 500k virgins. Cable isn’t the best way to reach cool kids. Nor is wrestling perceived to be.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> 995k would have to be a disappointment. I'd say more but can be misconstrued as baiting or gloating


its not


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> The way it should be. Advertisers aren’t interested in 500k virgins. Cable isn’t the best way to reach cool kids. Nor is wrestling perceived to be.


are you in advertising?


----------



## zaz102

The Wood said:


> The way it should be. Advertisers aren’t interested in 500k virgins. Cable isn’t the best way to reach cool kids. Nor is wrestling perceived to be.


I was checking the Wikipedia page to learn about Nielsen ratings and came across this...

In general, the number of viewers within the 18–49 age range is more important than the total number of viewers....

...Because of its strength in young "demos" (demographic groups), NBC was able to charge almost three times as much for a commercial during Friends as CBS charged for Murder, She Wrote, even though the two series had a similar amount of total viewership during the two seasons they were on the air concurrently.

Not sure how this factors in virgins and cool kids though.

I digress, I generated some basic trends for the ratings/demos. Didn't have time to clean it up, but I'll do try to do so and post tomorrow. Gives a little more insight on using the actual numbers.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## .christopher.

Two Sheds said:


> The ratings generally lag by a week. A bottom episode like last night will likely bring them down a bit next week. Just like last night's rating is solidly because of the hype and delivery of last week's.


Simple as.


----------



## DJ Punk

Damn so close to hitting that million mark..


----------



## Chip Chipperson

zaz102 said:


> I was checking the Wikipedia page to learn about Nielsen ratings and came across this...
> 
> In general, the number of viewers within the 18–49 age range is more important than the total number of viewers....
> 
> ...Because of its strength in young "demos" (demographic groups), NBC was able to charge almost three times as much for a commercial during Friends as CBS charged for Murder, She Wrote, even though the two series had a similar amount of total viewership during the two seasons they were on the air concurrently.
> 
> Not sure how this factors in virgins and cool kids though.
> 
> I digress, I generated some basic trends for the ratings/demos. Didn't have time to clean it up, but I'll do try to do so and post tomorrow. Gives a little more insight on using the actual numbers.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


So we're not really arguing that 18-49 doesn't matter just in this context.

Nobody wants to aim at wrestling fans unless it's fast food, piss mats or reality shows


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> So we're not really arguing that 18-49 doesn't matter just in this context.
> 
> Nobody wants to aim at wrestling fans unless it's fast food, piss mats or reality shows


that is some real ‘absolute’ statements there without backing it up

if you look at @Two Sheds amazing work on the ads list, you’ll see a shit-ton of value

besides - fast foods is one of the biggest industries

i’m guessing you also think ‘companies don’t want to target nerd virgin basement dwelling gamers’

which was a line of thought doing the rounds some time back


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

As an aside, if you lads are arguing the 18-49 doesn’t matter _in this context_

Because wrestling fans are low value to advertise to

well fuck me, then the overall number doesn’t matter for the same reason

and the number 2 spot on the list doesn’t matter for the same reason

in fact, if that is all true, and the wrestling fan is worth.... what... 50% less than a normal human (lol)

then they would have to double on all numbers just to be considered a small success and not cancelled

fuck meeeee! They’re getting cancelled lads!!!


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> As an aside, if you lads are arguing the 18-49 doesn’t matter _in this context_
> 
> Because wrestling fans are low value to advertise to
> 
> well fuck me, then the overall number doesn’t matter for the same reason
> 
> and the number 2 spot on the list doesn’t matter for the same reason
> 
> in fact, if that is all true, and the wrestling fan is worth.... what... 50% less than a normal human (lol)
> 
> then they would have to double on all numbers just to be considered a small success and not cancelled
> 
> fuck meeeee! They’re getting cancelled lads!!!


True - we wrestling fans are a poor form of life. Wonder anybody accepts our money!?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pippen94 said:


> True - we wrestling fans are a poor form of life. Wonder anybody accepts our money!?


i have zero dollars to spend Pippen, zero

how about you? Also much lower than the average human?


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i have zero dollars to spend Pippen, zero
> 
> how about you? Also much lower than the average human?


Relative to every human on earth... not too bad.

Fox & USA spending millions for wrestling so must be of some worth


----------



## Joe Gill

lol...if wrestling fans arent worth a damn USA network and Fox wouldnt be spending billions for TV rights for Raw and Smackdown.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

You guys aren't allowed to bait. It's proven via the Reddit census that their younger members have no money even for wrestling let alone other things.

As I've been saying for a week now it's a tough sell to get wrestling fans to part with major money because they don't have a lot of it.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Joe Gill said:


> lol...if wrestling fans arent worth a damn USA network and Fox wouldnt be spending billions for TV rights for Raw and Smackdown.


WWE attracts the entire family though. AEW is only aimed at 18-49


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> You guys aren't allowed to bait. It's proven via the Reddit census that their younger members have no money even for wrestling let alone other things.
> 
> As I've been saying for a week now it's a tough sell to get wrestling fans to part with major money because they don't have a lot of it.


what is the world about our posts are baiting? 🤦‍♂️

in fact, i would argue you’re baiting continuously citing a reddit article / survey as some gospel that proves your point

You have zero basis that a wrestling fan is worth less than any other fandom - to get that proof, you would have to take your reddit survey, then apply that to a ton more fandoms in the same manner and see how it stacks up

there is no other way - you have to compare to the ‘normal populace’

yet, here you are again - posting absolutes like ‘advertisers don’t care’ which is baseless / and a reddit article argument, which is massively flawed because it hasn’t been tested against other fandoms

now that.... that is baiting


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> WWE attracts the entire family though. AEW is only aimed at 18-49


..... huh?

mate - they also have viewers outside the key demo


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> what is the world about our posts are baiting? 🤦‍♂️
> 
> in fact, i would argue you’re baiting continuously citing a reddit article / survey as some gospel that proves your point
> 
> You have zero basis that a wrestling fan is worth less than any other fandom - to get that proof, you would have to take your reddit survey, then apply that to a ton more fandoms in the same manner and see how it stacks up
> 
> there is no other way - you have to compare to the ‘normal populace’
> 
> yet, here you are again - posting absolutes like ‘advertisers don’t care’ which is baseless / and a reddit article argument, which is massively flawed
> 
> now that.... that is baiting


It's not a Reddit article it's the annual Reddit census and as the biggest forum for wrestling out there we've definitely got to give it consideration.

I'm not going as far as others by saying they're all basement dweller virgins just that an audience that pirates PPV's (presumably because they can't afford) and has a high percentage living with parents or roommates aren't really going to be targeted or celebrated.

I also know it's not all fans. For example I'm in the demo and love wrestling but I make more than 47,000 USD a year. You've said you do also but going off the census we're minorities.

Also, if this demo was so important and such a big deal could you answer the following?

1. Why hasn't AEW landed a major sponsorship deal with a company targetting 18-49?

2. Why are the only celebs that AEW can get on are guys in their fifties? Why aren't Ariana Grande and Miley Cyrus turning up on Dynamite for a duet? Why isn't Hemsworth on promoting his next movie? Why isn't Bieber doing a run in on Cody?

If the demo is so important AEW would have both of those things.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> ..... huh?
> 
> mate - they also have viewers outside the key demo


Aware. The target audience for AEW is the 18-49 smart mark though. They threw a reference to a 21 year old Dustin Rhodes character in yesterday. This isn't a show trying to hook multiple demos


----------



## DaSlacker

If anything, the modern wrestling fan is in the same crossover bracket as devoted gamers, movie franchise fanatics, cartoons, comic book readers, anime fans etc. Arguably less into sport. And they spend on their hobbies - Mattel aren't exactly releasing all those Elite toys for the <13s. It's the 18-49s.

Basketball brings in one subsection of a demo. Having a brand that attracts over 1 million people everyweek (DVR included), many from the so called 'geek' demo, isn't an unattractive thing for the owners of a lot of brands and focusing heavily on HBOMax. .


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> It's not a Reddit article it's the annual Reddit census and as the biggest forum for wrestling out there we've definitely got to give it consideration.
> 
> I'm not going as far as others by saying they're all basement dweller virgins just that an audience that pirates PPV's (presumably because they can't afford) and has a high percentage living with parents or roommates aren't really going to be targeted or celebrated.
> 
> I also know it's not all fans. For example I'm in the demo and love wrestling but I make more than 47,000 USD a year. You've said you do also but going off the census we're minorities.
> 
> Also, if this demo was so important and such a big deal could you answer the following?
> 
> 1. Why hasn't AEW landed a major sponsorship deal with a company targetting 18-49?
> 
> 2. Why are the only celebs that AEW can get on are guys in their fifties? Why aren't Ariana Grande and Miley Cyrus turning up on Dynamite for a duet? Why isn't Hemsworth on promoting his next movie? Why isn't Bieber doing a run in on Cody?
> 
> If the demo is so important AEW would have both of those things.
> 
> 
> 
> Aware. The target audience for AEW though is the 18-49 smart mark though. They threw a reference to a 21 year old Dustin Rhodes character in yesterday. This isn't a show trying to hook multiple demos


1. they’ve had cracker barrel and statefarm / both who is under 50. I don’t know their business model around sponsorships - but i think its hardly a ‘gotcha’ moment that proves something. If 80% of the ads were ‘adult diaper’ or ‘bob’s 2nd hand car emporium’ - there would be a case.

but they weren’t

2. that is a very weird take. We want celebs now? Well Shaq was just on. Does that count? It seems to me AEWs stance is to involve celebs who can do something actually physical

they also has the Ric & Morty thing - and you can’t get trendier than that. The cracker barrel 3-way

the Kevin Smith thing

but these are all just extra money.

also.... Covid. I don’t think Beebs is doing a run-in at Daily’s place anytime soon


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Aware. The target audience for AEW is the 18-49 smart mark though. They threw a reference to a 21 year old Dustin Rhodes character in yesterday. This isn't a show trying to hook multiple demos


huh? Callbacks is fanservice

happens in all forms of geek entertainment. Can’t tell you how many times in a Marvel movie i ‘got’ something that the general viewer didn’t

doesn’t mean Marvel just wanted to only attract me because i’m a comic geek


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Just keep in mind....

if the demo doesn’t matter.... then the overall number doesn’t matter - cause all who is added in is kids and people over 50

so, it really becomes an either / or

and if ‘wrestling fans’ don’t matter..... well, why are we then even caring

all wrestling will be cancelled then soon anyway


----------



## CM Buck

@The Wood how do you know that 500 thousand viewers are virgin's? Or is this something you found out in your TV experience? Like do Nielsen actually go around checking who has sex now? If there's actual facts and figures to this i would be delighted to see.

Not being inflammatory just trying to corroborate your claim


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> huh? Callbacks is fanservice
> 
> happens in all forms of geek entertainment. Can’t tell you how many times in a Marvel movie i ‘got’ something that the general viewer didn’t
> 
> doesn’t mean Marvel just wanted to only attract me because i’m a comic geek


Okay brutha I think we'll leave it there. If you genuinely think AEW is legitimately trying to appeal to casuals then I can't really help you lol.

It's modern Indy style wrestling with a budget. Casuals aren't the target here


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Okay brutha I think we'll leave it there. If you genuinely think AEW is legitimately trying to appeal to casuals then I can't really help you lol.
> 
> It's modern Indy style wrestling with a budget. Casuals aren't the target here


wait.... i never said casuals were the target

i don’t believe ‘casuals’ in any genre exists anymore. In today’s world people have so many avenues to get exactly what they want - they don’t need to ‘casually’ watch anything anymore

i think wrestling fans are the target. Lapsed hardcore fans, or taking some from WWEs pie

nothing more, nothing less

the top end AEW can ever reach is getting to around 1.4 i recon


----------



## Randy Lahey

995 and 0.45 is fantastic. 2nd in Cable on the night. TNT has to be ecstatic.

I really hope AEW puts this show directly against Raw and their b show can be on Wed. AEW way up in ratings from a year ago while Raw is losing 20% of their audience every year. Stick the dagger into them Tony.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Randy Lahey said:


> 995 and 0.45 is fantastic. 2nd in Cable on the night. TNT has to be ecstatic.
> 
> I really hope AEW puts this show directly against Raw and their b show can be on Wed. AEW way up in ratings from a year ago while Raw is losing 20% of their audience every year. Stick the dagger into them Tony.


will never happen. TK is on record that he never wants to compete with the NFL because of his connections

Friday for the 2nd show is a possibility


----------



## bdon

Supernatural is the greatest television show of my lifetime. It leaned heavily on geek culture, knowing and listening to what their diehard fans wanted.

But it remained very niche. It also had a green light to air as many new episodes for as long as Jensen Ackles and Jared Padalecki were willing to continue.

There is something to be said for giving your audience the deserved Easter Eggs for their loyalty. There is also something to be said for trying to grow your audience when you’re in an already very niche market. The Supernatural crew joke about how they expected to be cancelled every year and somehow kept getting renewed.

AEW could find similar fate. Just as they could see a similar fate to WCW, dropped like a bad habit while still doing very well in the ratings department. TV execs are weird. Supernatural can last 15 seasons, but Black Donnelly’s can’t last one.

I don’t doubt AEW has certain levels of protection right now, but as a wrestling company on a major network in the US, you can’t rely solely on the Execs giving two shits about the loyalty of the existing fan base. They need to be looking to hit dinger after dinger, keeping guys on base and running up the score each inning.


----------



## bdon

How the fuck is Cracker Barrel targeted at 18-49 year olds!? I only eat there when dragged to family dinners when our out of state brethren visit.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> How the fuck is Cracker Barrel targeted at 18-49 year olds!? I only eat there when dragged to family dinners when our out of state brethren visit.


Isn't cracker barrel regularly used as old person joke in movies?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Isn't cracker barrel regularly used as old person joke in movies?


i dunno 🤷‍♂️


----------



## VIP86

every week after the ratings comes out, this thread turns into (he said & you said) cold war
can't people analyze the ratings without judging each other opinions ?
the most important thing i learned from using forums all my life is: self moderation
criticize the subject, not people opinions about said subject

now i feel like a preacher 😄


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i dunno 🤷‍♂️


Someone who claims Cracker Barrel is aimed at young people doesn’t know that it is a running joke as being for old people.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Isn't cracker barrel regularly used as old person joke in movies?


I’m not sure, but it is definitely not a place where the cool kids go.

I spent a wild night at a strip club with the boys back in the day (too many details not suitable for virgin ears, remind me to share it some time), didn’t go to sleep until 5am, and at 7am, we’re leaving our hotel room drunk and hungry.

So, we get our things together, go across the road to Cracker Barrel as it is the only thing open at that time on a Sunday morning (only old people and church goers are awake at that time on that day), and here we are tired, disheveled, and smelling of sex and booze. Should have seen the “your mother should be ashaaaaamed” look on every single one of those old codgers’ faces.

So nah, I don’t buy Cracker Barrel being targeted at young folk. Not for a second.


----------



## Pippen94

Firefromthegods said:


> @The Wood how do you know that 500 thousand viewers are virgin's? Or is this something you found out in your TV experience? Like do Nielsen actually go around checking who has sex now? If there's actual facts and figures to this i would be delighted to see.
> 
> Not being inflammatory just trying to corroborate your claim


One of the boxes you tick when Nielsen sign you up; sex y/n


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> will never happen. TK is on record that he never wants to compete with the NFL because of his connections
> 
> Friday for the 2nd show is a possibility


never heard friday - thats up against smackdown.
Tuesday after NBA is the favorite from what I hear


----------



## Pippen94

VIP86 said:


> every week after the ratings comes out, this thread turns into (he said & you said) cold war
> can't people analyze the ratings without judging each other opinions ?
> the most important thing i learned from using forums all my life is: self moderation
> criticize the subject, not people opinions about said subject
> 
> now i feel like a preacher 😄


Come here excited when aew does a good rating - invariably I go away depressed. Can see why oppitk fell on his sword


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Ozell Gray said:


> 4 PPVs a year doesn’t excuse the hotshot booking which you ignored. *The next Omega vs Moxley match won’t mean anything because it was already seen 2 times before*. Title changes and a big match like that should only be on PPVs not free tv.
> 
> It doesn’t look like their in danger now because their numbers are consistently in the 800,000 viewership range but long term is where the damage is which is what I’m talking about.


Strongly disagree with the bolded part - it's set up perfectly to mean a lot. 

Yeh yeh future damage I get it - I'll stay away from the hypothetical doom and gloom thanks


----------



## Pentagon Senior

LifeInCattleClass said:


> As an aside, if you lads are arguing the 18-49 doesn’t matter _in this context_
> 
> Because wrestling fans are low value to advertise to
> 
> well fuck me, then the overall number doesn’t matter for the same reason
> 
> and the number 2 spot on the list doesn’t matter for the same reason
> 
> in fact, if that is all true, and the wrestling fan is worth.... what... 50% less than a normal human (lol)
> 
> then they would have to double on all numbers just to be considered a small success and not cancelled
> 
> fuck meeeee! They’re getting cancelled lads!!!


This. Some folks make it sound like any numbers are meaningless bro yet they'll still make posts like 'AEW in danger' if they get a bad rating. Can't have it both ways lol


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> As an aside, if you lads are arguing the 18-49 doesn’t matter _in this context_
> 
> Because wrestling fans are low value to advertise to
> 
> well fuck me, then the overall number doesn’t matter for the same reason
> 
> and the number 2 spot on the list doesn’t matter for the same reason
> 
> in fact, if that is all true, and the wrestling fan is worth.... what... 50% less than a normal human (lol)
> 
> then they would have to double on all numbers just to be considered a small success and not cancelled
> 
> fuck meeeee! They’re getting cancelled lads!!!


Yeah, wrestling’s viewership is less prestigious than other viewerships in the eyes of a lot of people. You’re getting closer to the point.

Also, don’t lol at people being worth less in one context when you’ve deliberately said that 18-49 are the only people who matter. 



Pippen94 said:


> Relative to every human on earth... not too bad.
> 
> Fox & USA spending millions for wrestling so must be of some worth


They’re paying cheap for year-round content that takes up 2, 3, 5 hours of programming. Vince has done his best to make WWE accessible for advertisers and sponsors. It’s not all the way there yet, but that was John Cena’s great success.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Wood said:


> Yeah, wrestling’s viewership is less prestigious than other viewerships in the eyes of a lot of people. You’re getting closer to the point.
> 
> Also, don’t lol at people being worth less in one context when you’ve deliberately said that 18-49 are the only people who matter.
> 
> 
> 
> They’re paying cheap for year-round content that takes up 2, 3, 5 hours of programming. Vince has done his best to make WWE accessible for advertisers and sponsors. It’s not all the way there yet, but that was John Cena’s great success.


Also WWE is very consistent and they know it's THE wrestling show and isn't losing anything audience wise.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> Yeah, wrestling’s viewership is less prestigious than other viewerships in the eyes of a lot of people. You’re getting closer to the point.
> 
> Also, don’t lol at people being worth less in one context when you’ve deliberately said that 18-49 are the only people who matter.
> 
> 
> 
> They’re paying cheap for year-round content that takes up 2, 3, 5 hours of programming. Vince has done his best to make WWE accessible for advertisers and sponsors. It’s not all the way there yet, but that was John Cena’s great success.


i think there’s a marked difference between the two statements

i think 18-49 is worth more than 50+

vs

i think wrestling fans of all ages are worth less than the fans of Real Housewives


----------



## VIP86

Chip Chipperson said:


> Also WWE is very consistent and they know it's THE wrestling show and isn't losing anything audience wise.


wait what ?
the only thing consistent about WWE is their declining ratings
WWE Raw literally lost more than 20% of their audience from last year
a quick search will show you that Raw was regularly getting 2200000 viewers like this time last year
now they are in the 1700000 area


----------



## Chip Chipperson

VIP86 said:


> wait what ?
> the only thing consistent about WWE is their declining ratings
> WWE Raw literally lost more than 20% of their audience from last year
> a quick search will show you that Raw was regularly getting 2200000 viewers like this time last year
> now they are in the 1700000 area


Yup. Watch it all go back up in about 2-3 months from now when the excitement of WrestleMania hits and WWE starts getting relatively big crowds back.


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i think there’s a marked difference between the two statements
> 
> i think 18-49 is worth more than 50+
> 
> vs
> 
> i think wrestling fans of all ages are worth less than the fans of Real Housewives


Yeah, advertisers believe the second one.



Firefromthegods said:


> @The Wood how do you know that 500 thousand viewers are virgin's? Or is this something you found out in your TV experience? Like do Nielsen actually go around checking who has sex now? If there's actual facts and figures to this i would be delighted to see.
> 
> Not being inflammatory just trying to corroborate your claim


The view of wrestling fans is that they are fat, white losers. I'm not saying I agree with that, but that's the view. That's why the WWE has had trouble in the past, and why ad spots for wrestling make less than ad spots with lower viewership and demos. No matter what LICC tries to feed people, you need to be able to get advertisers to buy the time on your show. If they don't want to be associated with wrestling -- like the U.S. Army, Coca-Cola (or was it Pepsi?) and even TNT decided in the Attitude era, when wrestling was arguably at its hottest, culturally -- they are not going to try and market to the audience you attract for any insane amount of money. This is common sense, has been well-known and generally accepted outside this AEW forum.

A higher viewership and, once upon a time, a higher demo rating did mean that you could _theoretically_ charge a lot of an ad spot. Because people wanted to advertise there and that competitive element drives up the price. But because wrestling has the image it has -- not helped by the WWF's scandals and PR mishaps in the 90's, or Vince Russo, or their general content approach in the Attitude era -- there are some companies and advertisers who are just don't want to be associated with wrestling. 

And as Chip has reminded people, surveys have been done and a lot of the stereotypes of wrestling fans are, sadly, not entirely mythic. It's bad television most of the time, to put it nicely. If you're someone trying to get your product over, you're not exactly going to want to appeal to wrestling fans. You want to appeal to people who are going to help your image. 

Something having a giant nerd following is not the same as something having legitimate mainstream acceptance. Advertisers and marketers do care about that.


----------



## The Wood

VIP86 said:


> wait what ?
> the only thing consistent about WWE is their declining ratings
> WWE Raw literally lost more than 20% of their audience from last year
> a quick search will show you that Raw was regularly getting 2200000 viewers like this time last year
> now they are in the 1700000 area


Smackers is up. They were dropping below the 2 million mark and now seem to get 2.1 every week.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> Yeah, advertisers believe the second one.
> 
> 
> 
> The view of wrestling fans is that they are fat, white losers. I'm not saying I agree with that, but that's the view. That's why the WWE has had trouble in the past, and why ad spots for wrestling make less than ad spots with lower viewership and demos. No matter what LICC tries to feed people, you need to be able to get advertisers to buy the time on your show. If they don't want to be associated with wrestling -- like the U.S. Army, Coca-Cola (or was it Pepsi?) and even TNT decided in the Attitude era, when wrestling was arguably at its hottest, culturally -- they are not going to try and market to the audience you attract for any insane amount of money. This is common sense, has been well-known and generally accepted outside this AEW forum.
> 
> A higher viewership and, once upon a time, a higher demo rating did mean that you could _theoretically_ charge a lot of an ad spot. Because people wanted to advertise there and that competitive element drives up the price. But because wrestling has the image it has -- not helped by the WWF's scandals and PR mishaps in the 90's, or Vince Russo, or their general content approach in the Attitude era -- there are some companies and advertisers who are just don't want to be associated with wrestling.
> 
> And as Chip has reminded people, surveys have been done and a lot of the stereotypes of wrestling fans are, sadly, not entirely mythic. It's bad television most of the time, to put it nicely. If you're someone trying to get your product over, you're not exactly going to want to appeal to wrestling fans. You want to appeal to people who are going to help your image.
> 
> Something having a giant nerd following is not the same as something having legitimate mainstream acceptance. Advertisers and marketers do care about that.


are you in advertising?

(i keep asking this question, hoping for a reply that will make sense of the absolutes you speak in)


----------



## CM Buck

The Wood said:


> Yeah, advertisers believe the second one.
> 
> 
> 
> The view of wrestling fans is that they are fat, white losers. I'm not saying I agree with that, but that's the view. That's why the WWE has had trouble in the past, and why ad spots for wrestling make less than ad spots with lower viewership and demos. No matter what LICC tries to feed people, you need to be able to get advertisers to buy the time on your show. If they don't want to be associated with wrestling -- like the U.S. Army, Coca-Cola (or was it Pepsi?) and even TNT decided in the Attitude era, when wrestling was arguably at its hottest, culturally -- they are not going to try and market to the audience you attract for any insane amount of money. This is common sense, has been well-known and generally accepted outside this AEW forum.
> 
> A higher viewership and, once upon a time, a higher demo rating did mean that you could _theoretically_ charge a lot of an ad spot. Because people wanted to advertise there and that competitive element drives up the price. But because wrestling has the image it has -- not helped by the WWF's scandals and PR mishaps in the 90's, or Vince Russo, or their general content approach in the Attitude era -- there are some companies and advertisers who are just don't want to be associated with wrestling.
> 
> And as Chip has reminded people, surveys have been done and a lot of the stereotypes of wrestling fans are, sadly, not entirely mythic. It's bad television most of the time, to put it nicely. If you're someone trying to get your product over, you're not exactly going to want to appeal to wrestling fans. You want to appeal to people who are going to help your image.
> 
> Something having a giant nerd following is not the same as something having legitimate mainstream acceptance. Advertisers and marketers do care about that.


Fair enough. But isn't geek chic now? Like marvels spewing out alot ofgeek stuff. Shows like west world and thrones being widely popular.

So isn't the geek market a great well to mine right now?

@LifeInCattleClass Woods had tv experience IRL. I dunno how extensive but yeah.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

@The Wood / @Chip Chipperson 

indulge me my guys. What cable show is a prime one that advertisers will cream their pants over. They can’t wait to throw their grubby little marketing dollars at it

just 4 cable shows / weekdays

let’s walk down this road together lads


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Firefromthegods said:


> Fair enough. But isn't geek chic now? Like marvels spewing out alot ofgeek stuff. Shows like west world and thrones being widely popular.
> 
> So isn't the geek market a great well to mine right now?


it is the best market

geeks spend money / geeks who REALLY love their hobby spend twice as much

if you can get ‘in’ there - you’re golden


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> are you in advertising?
> 
> (i keep asking this question, hoping for a reply that will make sense of the absolutes you speak in)


Are you? You literally just tried suggesting Cracker Barrel was aimed at a young audience.


----------



## CM Buck

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it is the best market
> 
> geeks spend money / geeks who REALLY love their hobby spend twice as much
> 
> if you can get ‘in’ there - you’re golden


That's what I thought. Geek is alot different from nerd too apparently ill see if I can find a source its actually pretty fascinating









Are You a Geek or a Nerd? The Difference Really Is in the Data


The words "nerd" and "geek" are often used interchangeably, as if they mean the same thing. They actually don't.




bigthink.com


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Are you? You literally just tried suggesting Cracker Barrel was aimed at a young audience.


yes i am

isn’t cracker barrel a family restaurant? Are families comprised of 2 adults below 50 and some rugrats running around?

if ‘yes’ please see the demo marked as 18-49


----------



## Pippen94

Wtf

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1337140670952316934


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> @The Wood / @Chip Chipperson
> 
> indulge me my guys. What cable show is a prime one that advertisers will cream their pants over. They can’t wait to throw their grubby little marketing dollars at it
> 
> just 4 cable shows / weekdays
> 
> let’s walk down this road together lads


What's being argued here that advertisers don't like wrestling??!
Seems to be a lot of it on TV... always has too


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pippen94 said:


> Wtf
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1337140670952316934


that was + their twitch + youtube views

they’re taking the piss a bit🤣


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pippen94 said:


> What's being argued here that advertisers don't like wrestling??!
> Seems to be a lot of it on TV... always has too


yeah, i dunno mate

we are now ‘worth less’ than other programming

vs Sports I can buy

vs. Real Housewives? ..... yeah, not so much


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> that was + their twitch + youtube views
> 
> they’re taking the piss a bit🤣


Their channel not available to all - boast was always going to be outside of that.
Heard they usually have digital numbers of 200k


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yeah, i dunno mate
> 
> we are now ‘worth less’ than other programming
> 
> vs Sports I can buy
> 
> vs. Real Housewives? ..... yeah, not so much


Someone memo Vince & TK; it's not worth it


----------



## VIP86

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yup. Watch it all go back up in about 2-3 months from now when the excitement of WrestleMania hits and WWE starts getting relatively big crowds back.


and right after WrestleMania they will go back down to the 1700000 area
WWE will NOT retrieve any lost popularity
once fans are gone, they are gone for good
especially because WWE doesn't have BIG stars anymore, the kind of stars who bring the fans running
the only one who actually makes a big difference in WWE ratings is the rock
nobody else moves the needle

you want proof?
the rock was in smackdown debut on FOX, and they got 4 million viewers
fast forward few weeks later, they are down to 2 million
isn't that proof that WWE has no drawing power in the roster ?


The Wood said:


> Smackers is up. They were dropping below the 2 million mark and now seem to get 2.1 every week.


Smackdown also lost exactly 20% of their viewers from 2018 until now
in 2018 they were getting 2600000, and now they are getting 2100000, so my point stands
WWE is dropping FAST in popularity
they were lucky with the timing when they made these TV deals

source: this picture from f4wonline


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yes i am
> 
> isn’t cracker barrel a family restaurant? Are families comprised of 2 adults below 50 and some rugrats running around?
> 
> if ‘yes’ please see the demo marked as 18-49


No, Cracker Barrel is not somewhere you see young adults, man. Cracker Barrel is a predominantly elderly focused restaurant. You should know this, man.


----------



## The Wood

Firefromthegods said:


> Fair enough. But isn't geek chic now? Like marvels spewing out alot ofgeek stuff. Shows like west world and thrones being widely popular.
> 
> So isn't the geek market a great well to mine right now?


It can be. It depends what it is. Comic books are cool. Some fantasy is cool, but other fantasy is still pretty lame. What you’re saying is generally pretty true. Generally even the nerdiest video games have a level of acceptance where people will at least not mercilessly mock you for playing them. Being a wrestling fan is just a step too geeky though. 

It’s not just collecting stamps, it’s needing to lick them.


----------



## DaSlacker

VIP86 said:


> and right after WrestleMania they will go back down to the 1700000 area
> WWE will NOT retrieve any lost popularity
> once fans are gone, they are gone for good
> especially because WWE doesn't have BIG stars anymore, the kind of stars who bring the fans running
> the only one who actually makes a big difference in WWE ratings is the rock
> nobody else moves the needle
> 
> you want proof?
> the rock was in smackdown debut on FOX, and they got 4 million viewers
> fast forward few weeks later, they are down to 2 million
> isn't that proof that WWE has no drawing power in the roster ?
> 
> Smackdown also lost exactly 20% of their viewers from 2018 until now
> in 2018 they were getting 2600000, and now they are getting 2100000, so my point stands
> WWE is dropping FAST in popularity
> they were lucky with the timing when they made these TV deals
> 
> source: this picture from f4wonline
> View attachment 94789


Yep

Raw was destined to fall below 2 million viewers in 2020. It was being talked about in the ratings thread this time last year and is due to a combination of factors. 

It's also more than likely Smackdown would be sitting at 1.5 million viewers right now had they remained on cable.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> @The Wood / @Chip Chipperson
> 
> indulge me my guys. What cable show is a prime one that advertisers will cream their pants over. They can’t wait to throw their grubby little marketing dollars at it
> 
> just 4 cable shows / weekdays
> 
> let’s walk down this road together lads


Here in Australia the three hottest things on television are reality type shows (The Block, Bachelor, Bachelorette), Soap Operas (Neighbours and Home and Away mainly) and Sports. I don't watch much reality TV and I haven't watched Neighbours regularly for about 10 years so I'll go with sports.

I love the National Rugby League, it's a big sports code here on the eastern side of Australia (New Zealand loves it also) but remains unpopular in Central, South and West (However is trying to grow)

They'd be absolutely nailing the 18-49 demographic so it's fair plus the ratings for games are kind of low with games between lower teams often drawing under 100,000 viewers. A whole round of games might be competitive with AEW's 2 hours every Wednesday night.

In the NRL games air Thursday night (Generally considered the worst night), Friday and Saturday nights plus two games on Sunday Afternoon.

Sponsoring the entire competition is as follows:

Major Sponsors: Kentucky Fried Chicken (Food, obviously), Shick (Razors for men), Steeden (Sports Equipment Manufacturer), Telstra (One of the major phone network providers)

Minor Sponsors: Harvey Norman (Department Store), Rebel Sports (Sportswear Store), Youi (Insurance)

Specific Night/Competition Sponsors: Hisense (Thursday) (White Goods Sales), Victoria Bitter (Friday) (Beer), Bundaberg Rum (Saturday) and Chemist Warehouse (Sunday) (Chain Pharmacy)

State Of Origin is one of our biggest exhibition series of the year, the major sponsor for that was Holden (Car company) but they've lost it to Caltex Australia (Petrol Stations)

---

So that's a pretty good mix of things, you've got some fast food, some sports retailers, some good retail outlets, some high end goods, some beers and some essential goods.

Lets dive further:

Each team is allowed a major sponsor on their jersey, I know you'd be familiar with this Mr. Cattle because you are a rugby fan.

Brisbane Broncos (Major team in a major market) - Kia Motors (Vehicles)

Canberra Raiders (A good team in a small market) - Huawei (Telecommunications)

Canterbury Bulldogs (One of the worst teams in a saturated Sydney market) - Laundy Hotels (Motel/Pub group)

Cronulla Sharks (An average team in a saturated Sydney market) - Ace Gutters & Roofing (Home Services)

Gold Coast Titans (A bad team in a relatively major market) - Neds (Betting Agency)

Manly Sea Eagles (Bad team in a small market) - URM Waste Management (Waste Management)

Melbourne Storm (Very strong team in a major market) - RedZed (Mortgages)

Newcastle Knights (Decent team in a pretty strong regional market) - NIB Health Fund (Insurance)

North Queensland Cowboys (Not so great team in a strong regional market) - Toyota (Cars)

Parramatta Eels (Decent team in Sydney market) - Aland Developments (Construction)

Penrith Panthers (Strong team in strong city/regional market) - Oak (Milk)

St George Illawarra Dragons (Bad team in dual market) - St George Bank (Bank)

South Sydney Rabbitohs (Good team in major market, very popular) - Aqualand (Real Estate Developer) and Alcatel (Mobile Phones)

Sydney Roosters (Great team in the biggest market in the country) - Steggles (Poultry Products)

Warriors (Not so good team but has the entire New Zealand market) - Vodafone NZ (Phone Service Provider)

West Tigers (Average team in a semi decent regiona market) - Brydens Lawyers (Law Firm)

---

Again, pretty good mixture here. Got some high end products (Lawyers, Real Estate, Cars etc)

Also, some businesses have actually paid to sponsor these teams stadiums. Banks, insurance companies, builders, a major media network and even a large security services company.

AEW is hitting this same demo, of course they're not expected to land all of these since the NRL is 112 years old and AEW is only a year old but are you telling me that if their demo wasn't so amazing that they couldn't land a major sponsorship from at least SOMETHING like one of these companies? I guarantee you none of those teams play to a million people consistently.




Pippen94 said:


> Someone memo Vince & TK; it's not worth it


We never said this.

Don't you find it odd that Vince has tried to distance himself from calling himself wrestling for like 15 years though?


----------



## CM Buck

Chip Chipperson said:


> Here in Australia the three hottest things on television are reality type shows (The Block, Bachelor, Bachelorette), Soap Operas (Neighbours and Home and Away mainly) and Sports. I don't watch much reality TV and I haven't watched Neighbours regularly for about 10 years so I'll go with sports.
> 
> I love the National Rugby League, it's a big sports code here on the eastern side of Australia (New Zealand loves it also) but remains unpopular in Central, South and West (However is trying to grow)
> 
> They'd be absolutely nailing the 18-49 demographic so it's fair plus the ratings for games are kind of low with games between lower teams often drawing under 100,000 viewers. A whole round of games might be competitive with AEW's 2 hours every Wednesday night.
> 
> In the NRL games air Thursday night (Generally considered the worst night), Friday and Saturday nights plus two games on Sunday Afternoon.
> 
> Sponsoring the entire competition is as follows:
> 
> Major Sponsors: Kentucky Fried Chicken (Food, obviously), Shick (Razors for men), Steeden (Sports Equipment Manufacturer), Telstra (One of the major phone network providers)
> 
> Minor Sponsors: Harvey Norman (Department Store), Rebel Sports (Sportswear Store), Youi (Insurance)
> 
> Specific Night/Competition Sponsors: Hisense (Thursday) (White Goods Sales), Victoria Bitter (Friday) (Beer), Bundaberg Rum (Saturday) and Chemist Warehouse (Sunday) (Chain Pharmacy)
> 
> State Of Origin is one of our biggest exhibition series of the year, the major sponsor for that was Holden (Car company) but they've lost it to Caltex Australia (Petrol Stations)
> 
> ---
> 
> So that's a pretty good mix of things, you've got some fast food, some sports retailers, some good retail outlets, some high end goods, some beers and some essential goods.
> 
> Lets dive further:
> 
> Each team is allowed a major sponsor on their jersey, I know you'd be familiar with this Mr. Cattle because you are a rugby fan.
> 
> Brisbane Broncos (Major team in a major market) - Kia Motors (Vehicles)
> 
> Canberra Raiders (A good team in a small market) - Huawei (Telecommunications)
> 
> Canterbury Bulldogs (One of the worst teams in a saturated Sydney market) - Laundy Hotels (Motel/Pub group)
> 
> Cronulla Sharks (An average team in a saturated Sydney market) - Ace Gutters & Roofing (Home Services)
> 
> Gold Coast Titans (A bad team in a relatively major market) - Neds (Betting Agency)
> 
> Manly Sea Eagles (Bad team in a small market) - URM Waste Management (Waste Management)
> 
> Melbourne Storm (Very strong team in a major market) - RedZed (Mortgages)
> 
> Newcastle Knights (Decent team in a pretty strong regional market) - NIB Health Fund (Insurance)
> 
> North Queensland Cowboys (Not so great team in a strong regional market) - Toyota (Cars)
> 
> Parramatta Eels (Decent team in Sydney market) - Aland Developments (Construction)
> 
> Penrith Panthers (Strong team in strong city/regional market) - Oak (Milk)
> 
> St George Illawarra Dragons (Bad team in dual market) - St George Bank (Bank)
> 
> South Sydney Rabbitohs (Good team in major market, very popular) - Aqualand (Real Estate Developer) and Alcatel (Mobile Phones)
> 
> Sydney Roosters (Great team in the biggest market in the country) - Steggles (Poultry Products)
> 
> Warriors (Not so good team but has the entire New Zealand market) - Vodafone NZ (Phone Service Provider)
> 
> West Tigers (Average team in a semi decent regiona market) - Brydens Lawyers (Law Firm)
> 
> ---
> 
> Again, pretty good mixture here. Got some high end products (Lawyers, Real Estate, Cars etc)
> 
> Also, some businesses have actually paid to sponsor these teams stadiums. Banks, insurance companies, builders, a major media network and even a large security services company.
> 
> AEW is hitting this same demo, of course they're not expected to land all of these since the NRL is 112 years old and AEW is only a year old but are you telling me that if their demo wasn't so amazing that they couldn't land a major sponsorship from at least SOMETHING like one of these companies? I guarantee you none of those teams play to a million people consistently.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We never said this.
> 
> Don't you find it odd that Vince has tried to distance himself from calling himself wrestling for like 15 years though?


Vince hating professional wrestling pisses me off. Its what bought him to the dance. He reminds me of Samuel L Jacksons character from django unchained.

Life if you are interested i can tell you what sponsors AFL teams


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Here in Australia the three hottest things on television are reality type shows (The Block, Bachelor, Bachelorette), Soap Operas (Neighbours and Home and Away mainly) and Sports. I don't watch much reality TV and I haven't watched Neighbours regularly for about 10 years so I'll go with sports.
> 
> I love the National Rugby League, it's a big sports code here on the eastern side of Australia (New Zealand loves it also) but remains unpopular in Central, South and West (However is trying to grow)
> 
> They'd be absolutely nailing the 18-49 demographic so it's fair plus the ratings for games are kind of low with games between lower teams often drawing under 100,000 viewers. A whole round of games might be competitive with AEW's 2 hours every Wednesday night.
> 
> In the NRL games air Thursday night (Generally considered the worst night), Friday and Saturday nights plus two games on Sunday Afternoon.
> 
> Sponsoring the entire competition is as follows:
> 
> Major Sponsors: Kentucky Fried Chicken (Food, obviously), Shick (Razors for men), Steeden (Sports Equipment Manufacturer), Telstra (One of the major phone network providers)
> 
> Minor Sponsors: Harvey Norman (Department Store), Rebel Sports (Sportswear Store), Youi (Insurance)
> 
> Specific Night/Competition Sponsors: Hisense (Thursday) (White Goods Sales), Victoria Bitter (Friday) (Beer), Bundaberg Rum (Saturday) and Chemist Warehouse (Sunday) (Chain Pharmacy)
> 
> State Of Origin is one of our biggest exhibition series of the year, the major sponsor for that was Holden (Car company) but they've lost it to Caltex Australia (Petrol Stations)
> 
> ---
> 
> So that's a pretty good mix of things, you've got some fast food, some sports retailers, some good retail outlets, some high end goods, some beers and some essential goods.
> 
> Lets dive further:
> 
> Each team is allowed a major sponsor on their jersey, I know you'd be familiar with this Mr. Cattle because you are a rugby fan.
> 
> Brisbane Broncos (Major team in a major market) - Kia Motors (Vehicles)
> 
> Canberra Raiders (A good team in a small market) - Huawei (Telecommunications)
> 
> Canterbury Bulldogs (One of the worst teams in a saturated Sydney market) - Laundy Hotels (Motel/Pub group)
> 
> Cronulla Sharks (An average team in a saturated Sydney market) - Ace Gutters & Roofing (Home Services)
> 
> Gold Coast Titans (A bad team in a relatively major market) - Neds (Betting Agency)
> 
> Manly Sea Eagles (Bad team in a small market) - URM Waste Management (Waste Management)
> 
> Melbourne Storm (Very strong team in a major market) - RedZed (Mortgages)
> 
> Newcastle Knights (Decent team in a pretty strong regional market) - NIB Health Fund (Insurance)
> 
> North Queensland Cowboys (Not so great team in a strong regional market) - Toyota (Cars)
> 
> Parramatta Eels (Decent team in Sydney market) - Aland Developments (Construction)
> 
> Penrith Panthers (Strong team in strong city/regional market) - Oak (Milk)
> 
> St George Illawarra Dragons (Bad team in dual market) - St George Bank (Bank)
> 
> South Sydney Rabbitohs (Good team in major market, very popular) - Aqualand (Real Estate Developer) and Alcatel (Mobile Phones)
> 
> Sydney Roosters (Great team in the biggest market in the country) - Steggles (Poultry Products)
> 
> Warriors (Not so good team but has the entire New Zealand market) - Vodafone NZ (Phone Service Provider)
> 
> West Tigers (Average team in a semi decent regiona market) - Brydens Lawyers (Law Firm)
> 
> ---
> 
> Again, pretty good mixture here. Got some high end products (Lawyers, Real Estate, Cars etc)
> 
> Also, some businesses have actually paid to sponsor these teams stadiums. Banks, insurance companies, builders, a major media network and even a large security services company.
> 
> AEW is hitting this same demo, of course they're not expected to land all of these since the NRL is 112 years old and AEW is only a year old but are you telling me that if their demo wasn't so amazing that they couldn't land a major sponsorship from at least SOMETHING like one of these companies? I guarantee you none of those teams play to a million people consistently.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We never said this.
> 
> Don't you find it odd that Vince has tried to distance himself from calling himself wrestling for like 15 years though?


...... american cable shows brah, on american television - so we can have an actual comparison

all that you just typed means something to only 3% of this forum - besides, Union smokes league and spits out the remains

which USA cable shows (not sport, mind - shows) gets the ad dollars flowing in your opinion

CABLE SHOWS. USA


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Firefromthegods said:


> Vince hating professional wrestling pisses me off. Its what bought him to the dance. He reminds me of Samuel L Jacksons character from django unchained.
> 
> Life if you are interested i can tell you what sponsors AFL teams


Yeah, that'd be great. I don't know anything about the AFL so didn't want to talk out of turn.

And yes, Vince's hatred of wrestling bothers me also but it's kind of necessary to push heavily on it being entertainment and not wrestling to attract the limited sponsors he has.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ...... american cable shows brah, on american television - so we can have an actual comparison
> 
> all that you just typed means something to only 3% of this forum - besides, Union smokes league and spits out the remains
> 
> which USA cable shows (not sport, mind - shows) gets the ad dollars flowing in your opinion
> 
> CABLE SHOWS. USA


I can't answer that, I don't live in the United States.

I've given you a fair comparison though. NRL would only hit about a million a week just like AEW yet is doing a shit ton in sponsors. AEW can't get the same.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Firefromthegods said:


> Life if you are interested i can tell you what sponsors AFL teams


I would rather sing ‘advance Australia fair’ backwards while Shane Warne murdered Koalas in my backyard mate

if League is 2nd class rugby, then I can’t wait to share my opinions on the fecking AFL


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> *I can't answer that, I don't live in the United States.*
> 
> I've given you a fair comparison though. NRL would only hit about a million a week just like AEW yet is doing a shit ton in sponsors. AEW can't get the same.


then by all that is holy....... how can you be so adamant and immovable that the ads in AEW is worth less for something like 2 weeks now???????

is this candid camera or something? Twilight zone? Who am I? Where are we? What is going on?


----------



## CM Buck

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I would rather sing ‘advance Australia fair’ backwards while Shane Warne murdered Koalas in my backyard mate
> 
> if League is 2nd class rugby, then I can’t wait to share my opinions on the fecking AFL


Fair opinion he says through gritted teeth


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Firefromthegods said:


> Fair opinion he says through gritted teeth


lololol

sorry mate, i know AFL is like religion there..... but.... i just can’t

i’m rugby union through and through - no other egg shaped ball sports exists 🤣

like..... you can kick anywhere and get a point?! Like in between 4 poles?!

c’moooooonnnn


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> then by all that is holy....... how can you be so adamant and immovable that the ads in AEW is worth less for something like 2 weeks now???????
> 
> is this candid camera or something? Twilight zone? Who am I? Where are we? What is going on?


Because I've seen what they're airing and I know what the products are? I know shitty fast food is shitty fast food plus Two Sheds very generously went through it all anyway.

I gave you NRL sponsorships which is way more valid. Bulldogs for example aren't playing in front of a million people no matter what yet they still have a major sponsor. AEW can't get one, why? Could it be because nobody wants the wrestling fans?


----------



## zaz102

Chip Chipperson said:


> So we're not really arguing that 18-49 doesn't matter just in this context.
> 
> Nobody wants to aim at wrestling fans unless it's fast food, piss mats or reality shows


Interesting. Can you post the link please?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lololol
> 
> sorry mate, i know AFL is like religion there..... but.... i just can’t
> 
> i’m rugby union through and through - no other egg shaped ball sports exists 🤣
> 
> like..... you can kick anywhere and get a point?! Like in between 4 poles?!
> 
> c’moooooonnnn


AFL only popular in SA, Vic, WA and Tasmania (Kinda)

NRL>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>AFL

6 points for a goal, 1 for trying.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

zaz102 said:


> Interesting. Can you post the link please?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


Go back about 10 pages to Two Sheds, I think the discussion was this past weekend.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Because I've seen what they're airing and I know what the products are? I know shitty fast food is shitty fast food plus Two Sheds very generously went through it all anyway.
> 
> I gave you NRL sponsorships which is way more valid. Bulldogs for example aren't playing in front of a million people no matter what yet they still have a major sponsor. AEW can't get one, why? Could it be because nobody wants the wrestling fans?


they. Do. Not. Make. Their. Money. From. Sponsorships.

its not a fecking kickball team mate

they make it from ads. Sponsorships is just extra cash

if we compare their ads, with the ads from a show you lads deem (attractive to advertisers) - we can easily see how they are viewed

but i fear the gist of the concept is lost and we can just move on.... forever circling this black hole of insanity


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> AFL only popular in SA, Vic, WA and Tasmania (Kinda)
> 
> NRL>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>AFL
> 
> 6 points for a goal, 1 for trying.


right?!! Like participation points!

does my head in!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Fuck me - just to throw a turd in the punch bowl

AEW is sponsored by Statefarm - an insurance company conglomerate and 36th on the fortune 500

with over 50k employees

so, they are literally a more massive and prestigious sponsor than 90% of the NRL teams 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️

with mmmmaybe KFC beating them?

edit) and kia and huwaaeiieie (sp)


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> they. Do. Not. Make. Their. Money. From. Sponsorships.
> 
> its not a fecking kickball team mate
> 
> they make it from ads. Sponsorships is just extra cash
> 
> if we compare their ads, with the ads from a show you lads deem (attractive to advertisers) - we can easily see how they are viewed
> 
> but i fear the gist of the concept is lost and we can just move on.... forever circling this black hole of insanity


Nah but they'd definitely take a sponsorship if it was offered. Gaming company comes along and says "Hey, we'll give you a million bucks to advertise our new game every week" they probably wouldn't turn it down, would they? They haven't got one because nobody wants the wrestling fans.

In regards to commercials, it's a bunch of fast food, a few products catered to old people and a few catered to young. 

I stand by my initial point, demo doesn't matter as much as anyone here really thinks. We may just have to agree to disagree on the topic though.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Nah but they'd definitely take a sponsorship if it was offered. Gaming company comes along and says "Hey, we'll give you a million bucks to advertise our new game every week" they probably wouldn't turn it down, would they? They haven't got one because nobody wants the wrestling fans.
> 
> In regards to commercials, it's a bunch of fast food, a few products catered to old people and a few catered to young.
> 
> I stand by my initial point, demo doesn't matter as much as anyone here really thinks. We may just have to agree to disagree on the topic though.


nope, we can agree that you don’t adequately want to explore the reality of the topic on the off-chance that you’re wrong


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Fuck me - just to throw a turd in the punch bowl
> 
> AEW is sponsored by Statefarm - an insurance company conglomerate and 36th on the fortune 500
> 
> with over 50k employees
> 
> so, they are literally a more massive and prestigious sponsor than 99% of the NRL teams 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️
> 
> with mmmmaybe KFC beating them?


How new is this? I've never noticed before. Is it a one week thing or ongoing? If ongoing then GREAT for them although it's not really an 18-49 product, is it?

Just shows they've got an acceptable overall viewership number.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> How new is this? I've never noticed before. Is it a one week thing or ongoing? If ongoing then GREAT for them although it's not really an 18-49 product, is it?
> 
> Just shows they've got an acceptable overall viewership number.


3rd week i think

and yes - insurance covers 18-49 but also 50+
It covers all ages


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 3rd week i think
> 
> and yes - insurance covers 18-49 but also 50+
> It covers all ages


That's good, I'll give credit to their solid to good overall rating rather than the demo though.


----------



## zaz102

Chip Chipperson said:


> Go back about 10 pages to Two Sheds, I think the discussion was this past weekend.


I did a search and found nothing. Can someone re-post it?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> How new is this? I've never noticed before. Is it a one week thing or ongoing? If ongoing then GREAT for them although it's not really an 18-49 product, is it?
> 
> Just shows they've got an acceptable overall viewership number.


Couple things, here: 

1) State Farm is an everyone thing. Do you have license to drive in the US? You need insurance. Simple as that. It is against the law to operate a vehicle without being covered on insurance.

2) Video game companies definitely are not avoiding wrestling like the Black Plague. Geek cultures tend to stand together, and gaming industry KNOWS that wrestling fans love playing video games and eating ho-ho’s in their momma’s basement more than they do watch wrestling. Heh


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> That's good, I'll give credit to their solid to good overall rating rather than the demo though.


🤷‍♂️ Ok


----------



## Cult03

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lololol
> 
> sorry mate, i know AFL is like religion there..... but.... i just can’t
> 
> i’m rugby union through and through - no other egg shaped ball sports exists 🤣
> 
> like..... you can kick anywhere and get a point?! Like in between 4 poles?!
> 
> c’moooooonnnn


Better to just play for a penalty and kick a goal from 50 out, right?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Cult03 said:


> Better to just play for a penalty and kick a goal from 50 out, right?


please don’t give away South Africa’s gameplan like that


----------



## VIP86

wait wait wait 
there is a sport out there in the world that gives you 1 point for TRYING ?
smh at the Snowflake world we're living in🤦‍♂️
i guess whoever came up with this rule was the same person who invented the participation trophies 🏆


----------



## CM Buck

Must. Resist. Sports. Bait.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Firefromthegods said:


> Must. Resist. Sports. Bait.


not bait if true broksi 

don’t worry though

AFL >>>> soccer


----------



## omaroo

Bigger than football(soccer) lol.

Now thats trolling right there lol.

Football is arguably the biggest sport in the world with billions of fans.


----------



## CM Buck

Okay I've derailed enough. Bad mod. Get back to numbers and tv


----------



## VIP86

i can't, i just can't physically let this go sorry
my body won't allow it
numbers don't lie










now back to topic


----------



## Not Lying

> *AEW DYNAMITE BREAKS 1 MILLION VIEWERS IN TWO SEGMENTS THIS WEEK*
> 
> AEW Dynamite brought a big episode of Dynamite to follow-up Winter Is Coming. They scored 995,000 viewers and an 0.45 in the 18-49 demographic. The company has a lot to be happy about, and they also broke 1 million viewers a couple of times to get that 995,000 average.
> 
> 
> 
> The viewership breakdown from Dynamite this week shows that AEW broke 1 million viewers in two separate segments. It is no surprise what those two segments were.
> 
> Sting’s appearance garnered 1,069,000 viewers, which was the highest point of the night. 645,000 of those viewers were in the key demographic.
> 
> 
> Shaq’s interview segment which ended with the NBA Hall of Famer getting water thrown in his face pulled in 1,063,000 viewers. 618,000 of those viewers were in the 18-49 demographic.











AEW Dynamite Breaks 1 Million Viewers In Two Segments This Week


AEW Dynamite brought a big episode of Dynamite to follow-up Winter Is Coming. They scored 995,000 viewers and an 0.45 in the 18-49 demographic. The




www.ringsidenews.com





This was expected I suppose. I'm waiting for the complete breakdown to see the transitions.


----------



## imthegame19

Q1: Bucks vs TH2: 934K, 531K demo
Q2: Darby vid, Cody/Sting segment: 1,069m, 645K
Q3: FTR vs Varsity Blondes, Page/Silver&Reynolds backstage skit: 1,022m, 593k
Q4: Dustin vs 10, Shaq interview: 1,063m, 618K
Q5: Inner Circle ultimatum, FTR interview, beginning of 6 men tag match: 1,010m, 593K
Q6: Rest of 6 men tag match, Abadon vs Tesha, post match with Shida attacking Abadon: 926k, 547k
Q7: Callis/Omega promo, preview of next weeks show: 963k, 581K
Q8: OC vs MJF: 971K, 563k


----------



## 10gizzle

I see we have the usual, people dissecting advertising, marketing, sponsorships without knowing anything about it.

Saying that Shaq and Snoop are over the hill celebrities whereas Ariana Grande and Miley Cyrus are what would help?

This hot shotting shit is ridiculous. One big match and they're giving shit away left right and centre?

It will never end with the criticism. Never. 

I can assure you, ACTUAL people who work in pro wrestling are impressed with AEW and consider their run so far to be a success. 

995K - ohhhh they missed a million what a failure. Please....


----------



## 3venflow

It's nice to see OC/MJF did a nice main event rating since they are two kinda/sorta homegrown talents (as in, they had no major exposure before AEW). I'm not a big OC fan, but thought the match was actually really good.

I see a few significant drops, but they were able to retain 1m after the 'celeb' (Sting, Shaq) segments which is nice. The women continue to be iffy in ratings... a ruthless promoter might bin the women's division completely, or at least until they get some 'stars', but that won't be happening.


----------



## Not Lying

imthegame19 said:


> Q1: Bucks vs TH2: 934K, 531K demo
> Q2: Darby vid, Cody/Sting segment: 1,069m, 645K
> Q3: FTR vs Varsity Blondes, Page/Silver&Reynolds backstage skit: 1,022m, 593k
> Q4: Dustin vs 10, Shaq interview: 1,063m, 618K
> Q5: Inner Circle ultimatum, FTR interview, beginning of 6 men tag match: 1,010m, 593K
> Q6: Rest of 6 men tag match, Abadon vs Tesha, post match with Shida attacking Abadon: 926k, 547k
> Q7: Callis/Omega promo, preview of next weeks show: 963k, 581K
> Q8: OC vs MJF: 971K, 563k


damn 150K+ shift for Sting (110K+ demo).

I wonder if Dustin was included on this show because they thought many of the lapsed fans would enjoy watching "Goldust"? His Quarter did well and Shaq was only on for like 3min (20%) of it.

The Women's segment lost viewers, but it's not that big of a drop, weird how the lowest demo was actually for the Bucks' match.



3venflow said:


> It's nice to see OC/MJF did a nice main event rating since they are two kinda/sorta homegrown talents (as in, they had no major exposure before AEW). I'm not a big OC fan, but thought the match was actually really good.
> 
> I see a few significant drops, but they were able to retain 1m after the 'celeb' (Sting, Shaq) segments which is nice. The women continue to be iffy in ratings... a ruthless promoter might bin the women's division completely, or at least until they get some 'stars', but that won't be happening.


Yeah, this wasn't the show to feature someone new like Abadon. Should have done something with DMD and Thunder Rosa.


----------



## VIP86

is sting going to be in the show again next week ?
it would be a mistake not to have him do something interesting
i don't care what it is, but they should reap the benefits now before the fans interest fades


----------



## 3venflow

The Definition of Technician said:


> I wonder if Dustin was included on this show because they thought many of the lapsed fans would enjoy watching "Goldust"? His Quarter did well and Shaq was only on for like 3min (20%) of it.


Dustin vs. Brodie did over 1m on the 9/11 Dynamite and was the second most watched segment. Of course, Dynamite was unopposed on that day and that show, which had a _really_ weak card, showed that AEW would probably be hitting 1m most weeks if not opposed by NXT.



VIP86 said:


> is sting going to be in the show again next week ?
> it would be a mistake not to have him do something interesting


Yeah, he is advertised as speaking again. They will probably drip-feed us Sting since he's not going to be wrestling much.


----------



## rbl85

The Definition of Technician said:


> damn 150K+ shift for Sting (110K+ demo).
> 
> I wonder if Dustin was included on this show because they thought many of the lapsed fans would enjoy watching "Goldust"? His Quarter did well and Shaq was only on for like 3min (20%) of it.
> 
> The Women's segment lost viewers, but it's not that big of a drop, weird how the lowest demo was actually for the Bucks' match.


Well it's probably not a 150k shift (might be more or less) because the quarters ratings is the average of viewers who watched the 15min.

So it's highly possible that at the end of the match there was more than 934K people watching but that also mean that during the Sting appearance there was more than 1.069M watching Sting.


----------



## ECFuckinW

Lmao where are all those idiots saying how bad AEW messed up sting and they bet they barely would average 700k viewers?

Suck it AEW doing great.


----------



## ECFuckinW

@RT1981 

Come eat crow bud.


----------



## 10gizzle

ECFuckinW said:


> Lmao where are all those idiots saying how bad AEW messed up sting and they bet they barely would average 700k viewers?
> 
> Suck it AEW doing great.


From a few recent conversations I have, many in the business think without COVID, AEW would be doing much, much better than even what they have now.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I think this shows they maaaaaybe didn’t advertise the main event enough?

could’ve held that 1m


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pentagon Senior said:


> Strongly disagree with the bolded part - it's set up perfectly to mean a lot.
> 
> Yeh yeh future damage I get it - I'll stay away from the hypothetical doom and gloom thanks


After 2 matches the matchup isn't as big of a deal as it once was. 

You'll see when they run out of things to do (they've run out now to be honest but their saving grace now is gimmick matches).


----------



## 10gizzle

Someone called me an idiot for bringing this up a few weeks ago but I think its a cool stat.

AEW is averaging between 150-200K viewers in Brazil. Very bad market for wrestling. These are apparently great, great numbers.

To boot, AEW airs 11PM - 1AM.

Yes, yes...I know it isn't a needle mover for the pessimists, I just thought it was a cool fucking tidbit that AEW is finding nooks in markets worldwide slowly.


----------



## Erik.

10gizzle said:


> Someone called me an idiot for bringing this up a few weeks ago but I think its a cool stat.
> 
> AEW is averaging between 150-200K viewers in Brazil. Very bad market for wrestling. These are apparently great, great numbers.
> 
> To boot, AEW airs 11PM - 1AM.
> 
> Yes, yes...I know it isn't a needle mover for the pessimists, I just thought it was a cool fucking tidbit that AEW is finding nooks in markets worldwide slowly.


Interesting.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329252730993479684
Cyborg has been clamouring for a wresting career and she's huge in Brazil for obvious reasons. I do wonder if they'd end up reaching out to her for a potential future in the womens division - especially as she apparently watches the show enough to tweet out as recent as last month.


----------



## 10gizzle

Erik. said:


> Interesting.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329252730993479684
> Cyborg has been clamouring for a wresting career and she's huge in Brazil for obvious reasons. I do wonder if they'd end up reaching out to her for a potential future in the womens division - especially as she apparently watches the show enough to tweet out as recent as last month.


Now this is something I could get behind.

Cyborg is a killer. She could probably decimate most of the roster IRL.

AEW should just make their women's division former fighters, just in they did/still do in Japan. Would lend the division way more credibility.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

10gizzle said:


> Someone called me an idiot for bringing this up a few weeks ago but I think its a cool stat.
> 
> AEW is averaging between 150-200K viewers in Brazil. Very bad market for wrestling. These are apparently great, great numbers.
> 
> To boot, AEW airs 11PM - 1AM.
> 
> Yes, yes...I know it isn't a needle mover for the pessimists, I just thought it was a cool fucking tidbit that AEW is finding nooks in markets worldwide slowly.


very cool stats

keep posting them please


----------



## 10gizzle

LifeInCattleClass said:


> very cool stats
> 
> keep posting them please


Hey I just saw it on reddit.

I mentioned it to my buddy in the industry and he was very impressed apparently since pro wrestling is very rough market in Brazil.

Can see them wanting to plant a flag there with more Brazilian talent. Cyborg. Wanderlei? Anderson Silva?

Can build an entire pancrase style division just with Brazliian talent alone.


----------



## Not Lying

10gizzle said:


> From a few recent conversations I have, many in the business think without COVID, AEW would be doing much, much better than even what they have now.


This is obvious.
The fact is the pandemic happened and they didn't find their footing right away, they struggled booking a show without fans at first, but also the news were taking precedents to anything else. I maintain an easy prediction that their ratings would be 100K-200K higher with full-house fans. Especially AEW where the crowd is hot and adds to the show.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Ozell Gray said:


> After 2 matches the matchup isn't as big of a deal as it once was.
> 
> You'll see when they run out of things to do (they've run out now to be honest but their saving grace now is gimmick matches).


Agree to disagree on first point. As a fan I'd be very hyped for Mox/Omega 3

I'll wait and see second point 👍


----------



## bdon

The Definition of Technician said:


> damn 150K+ shift for Sting (110K+ demo).
> 
> *I wonder if Dustin was included on this show because they thought many of the lapsed fans would enjoy watching "Goldust"?* His Quarter did well and Shaq was only on for like 3min (20%) of it.
> 
> The Women's segment lost viewers, but it's not that big of a drop, weird how the lowest demo was actually for the Bucks' match.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, this wasn't the show to feature someone new like Abadon. Should have done something with DMD and Thunder Rosa.


I said as much before the show started. It’s also why I believe Pillman Jr was used on such a b


ECFuckinW said:


> Lmao where are all those idiots saying how bad AEW messed up sting and they bet they barely would average 700k viewers?
> 
> Suck it AEW doing great.


People come out to see Sting a week after the surprise debut. These numbers are not a shock.

You and others can remember this a week from now when the ratings are back to the 850k range, because that is when the receipt will be due for them providing such a weak fucking show on a night when AEW THEMSELVES PREDICTED A MILLION VIEWERS!!

You’d always rather shit on yourself in front of your family than in front of the whole class.


----------



## 10gizzle

The Definition of Technician said:


> This is obvious.
> The fact is the pandemic happened and they didn't find their footing right away, they struggled booking a show without fans at first, but also the news were taking precedents to anything else. I maintain an easy prediction that their ratings would be 100K-200K higher with full-house fans. Especially AEW where the crowd is hot and adds to the show.


Yeah, definitely obvious.

I guess I moreso just meant that people within the industry are far more bullshit on AEW than one would think visiting the forums. Not that that's surpassing given the amount of petty, toxicity you can find here.

Then again, having a lot of haters is fantastic for business.

Especially if the haters will continue hating regardless.

AEW is literally thriving on their flaws because it creates so much conversation amongst the wrestling media world. Jim Cornette's show is literally an example. I'm sure he's not complaing AEW has been great for business for him.

I'm sure they don't care though, they're an infant of a company. Mistakes (constantly) are to be expected. Embraced even.

From what I've gathered, they're likely operating at a significant loss right now but the Khans can afford it, for a long time. The work is being done now hopefully to lay the roots for the company to be a healthy, profitable and internet friendly organization with reach all over the globe.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

bdon said:


> I said as much before the show started. It’s also why I believe Pillman Jr was used on such a b
> 
> 
> People come out to see Sting a week after the surprise debut. These numbers are not a shock.
> 
> You and others can remember this a week from now when the ratings are back to the 850k range, because that is when the receipt will be due for them providing such a weak fucking show on a night when AEW THEMSELVES PREDICTED A MILLION VIEWERS!!
> 
> You’d always rather shit on yourself in front of your family than in front of the whole class.


They get 995,000 viewers the biggest ratings of 2020,score great in the demo,come in 2nd in cable viewers for 2nd week in a row......and all you can muster up is they came 5000 viewers short of their goals.....LMFAO MOVE ALONG BRUH.


----------



## Erik.

$Dolladrew$ said:


> They get 995,000 viewers the biggest ratings of 2020,score great in the demo,come in 2nd in cable viewers for 2nd week in a row......and all you can muster up is they came 5000 viewers short of their goals.....LMFAO MOVE ALONG BRUH.


Plus, they did get a million viewers anyway. For pretty much half the show.


----------



## Not Lying

10gizzle said:


> Yeah, definitely obvious.
> 
> I guess I moreso just meant that people within the industry are far more bullshit on AEW than one would think visiting the forums. Not that that's surpassing given the amount of petty, toxicity you can find here.
> 
> Then again, having a lot of haters is fantastic for business.
> 
> Especially if the haters will continue hating regardless.
> 
> AEW is literally thriving on their flaws because it creates so much conversation amongst the wrestling media world. Jim Cornette's show is literally an example. I'm sure he's not complaing AEW has been great for business for him.
> 
> I'm sure they don't care though, they're an infant of a company. Mistakes (constantly) are to be expected. Embraced even.
> 
> From what I've gathered, they're likely operating at a significant loss right now but the Khans can afford it, for a long time. The work is being done now hopefully to lay the roots for the company to be a healthy, profitable and internet friendly organization with reach all over the globe.


I agree for sure. You've always got critics who will turn every positive into "not good enough". It is a start-up wrestling company, but at least they can adapt, take feedback and improve.

Personally, I can be complaining about the lack of Moxley, it's a fact he's their biggest draw, and the scored last night's ratings without him! I'm sure he would have gotten them over 1m easily. He's always done well too whenever he defended his gold on TV. That's why it's crazy to me he's not more exposed. But it is a testament to AEW that without doing this, and without over-exposing Moxley, they're doing well, and maintaining his attraction level.



$Dolladrew$ said:


> They get 995,000 viewers the biggest ratings of 2020,score great in the demo,come in 2nd in cable viewers for 2nd week in a row......and all you can muster up is they came 5000 viewers short of their goals.....LMFAO MOVE ALONG BRUH.


I don't think Bdon is knocking them for not getting 1m, but more that "they expected to be viewed by 1m people, so they should have a more engaging show to hook fans for next week".
I thought the show was mostly good but it lack that story that would hook the new fans for next week.


----------



## 10gizzle

The Definition of Technician said:


> I agree for sure. You've always got critics who will turn every positive into "not good enough". It is a start-up wrestling company, but at least they can adapt, take feedback and improve.
> 
> Personally, I can be complaining about the lack of Moxley, it's a fact he's their biggest draw, and the scored last night's ratings without him! I'm sure he would have gotten them over 1m easily. He's always done well too whenever he defended his gold on TV. That's why it's crazy to me he's not more exposed. But it is a testament to AEW that without doing this, and without over-exposing Moxley, they're doing well, and maintaining his attraction level.


What do I know, but I feel they're holding back hardcore on what they could be doing.

I know some believe AEW is "hot shotting" but I think they've done the opposite. They[ve slownburned a lot. They've created mostly forgettable feuds and hopefully that will kind of allow them to try things again without it feeling stale.

It was right around that time in July where they finally started having episodes with most of their top talent and it just already felt like a completely different show.

Once crowds are back, I think they'll turn up a notch.

They have no reason to do more because they already have their 800-900K even with a, mostly, tepid product. There is cast improvements to be made across the board and I think TK knows it.


----------



## DaSlacker

10gizzle said:


> From a few recent conversations I have, many in the business think without COVID, AEW would be doing much, much better than even what they have now.


Without head to head competition they'd have 100,000 additional viewers on an average week. When, apart from the Monday Night Wars, has their been two prime time wrestling shows on air at the same time? 

For a start up they've had to face a WWE brand, cord cutting, the Trump show and a pandemic that basically killed live entertainment. Yet have finished their first full year relatively strongly. 

I refuse to believe network executives aren't looking at that and its 45 million dollar price tag. Then looking at WWE and its 250 million dollar price tag/losing key demo to a start up head to head/losing 1.5 million regular viewers in 2 years. And thinking, wait a minute...


----------



## TKO Wrestling

10gizzle said:


> From a few recent conversations I have, many in the business think without COVID, AEW would be doing much, much better than even what they have now.


You could really feel that happening back in February and early March. But atleast they rebounded and are back to/above their pre pandemic numbers.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

DaSlacker said:


> Without head to head competition they'd have 100,000 additional viewers on an average week. When, apart from the Monday Night Wars, has their been two prime time wrestling shows on air at the same time?
> 
> For a start up they've had to face a WWE brand, cord cutting, the Trump show and a pandemic that basically killed live entertainment. Yet have finished their first full year relatively strongly.
> 
> I refuse to believe network executives aren't looking at that and its 45 million dollar price tag. Then looking at WWE and its 250 million dollar price tag/losing key demo to a start up head to head/losing 1.5 million regular viewers in 2 years. And thinking, wait a minute...


I think WWE is priced right, AEW is just cheap. TNT took the risk and, so far, it has paid off nicely for them. Will be very interesting to see what 2023 TV negotiations bring WWE & AEW. I think both go up in $$$.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

TKO Wrestling said:


> I think WWE is priced right, AEW is just cheap. TNT took the risk and, so far, it has paid off nicely for them. Will be very interesting to see what 2023 TV negotiations bring WWE & AEW. I think both go up in $$$.


it was a mutually beneficial thing though - AEW got the certainty of 4 stable years, maning they know they have time

and TNT got a great deal

next round is gonna be harder for TNT


----------



## bdon

$Dolladrew$ said:


> They get 995,000 viewers the biggest ratings of 2020,score great in the demo,come in 2nd in cable viewers for 2nd week in a row......and all you can muster up is they came 5000 viewers short of their goals.....LMFAO MOVE ALONG BRUH.


Why are you so quick to get defensive? I don’t give a fuck about missing the projected goal by “5,000 viewers”. They did well, which we the fans and those in charge were expecting, so why would you NOT come with the best show you could put together? That is not hotshotting, it is capitalizing on your hotshot booking from last week. Hotshotting is not inherently bad if you capitalize and dial it back. They ONLY dialed it back. 


The Definition of Technician said:


> I don't think Bdon is knocking them for not getting 1m, but more that "they expected to be viewed by 1m people, so they should have a more engaging show to hook fans for next week".
> I thought the show was mostly good but it lack that story that would hook the new fans for next week.


Exactly. We can all agree that was not their best show, right? Then we can all agree that is a missed opportunity to fully capitalize on Sting’s debut, and since they didn’t, I don’t expect next week’s numbers to be all too different than their normal 800-850k range when striking with a great fallout show to Sting’s arrival and Omega’s victory would have raised the ceiling to a potential new norm in the 900-950k range.


----------



## RT1981

ECFuckinW said:


> @RT1981
> 
> Come eat crow bud.


lets see what they do next week before we get all high and mighty cause I knew they would draw a big number this week after the big show last week but after that crap they put on I doubt those new viewers will stick around.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Solid rating, the important thing is judging on the quarters is they maintained the majority of the audience throughout the show.

Ultimately, this is another rating that really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, it matters where they land in January when thing wear off and we are back to what the show is.

If in January, they are pulling .36-.40 ratings consistently, Winter is Coming was a success, if they are back down to a .30-.32, it's just staying steady.


----------



## 10gizzle

DaSlacker said:


> Without head to head competition they'd have 100,000 additional viewers on an average week. When, apart from the Monday Night Wars, has their been two prime time wrestling shows on air at the same time?
> 
> For a start up they've had to face a WWE brand, cord cutting, the Trump show and a pandemic that basically killed live entertainment. Yet have finished their first full year relatively strongly.
> 
> I refuse to believe network executives aren't looking at that and its 45 million dollar price tag. Then looking at WWE and its 250 million dollar price tag/losing key demo to a start up head to head/losing 1.5 million regular viewers in 2 years. And thinking, wait a minute...


What I'd really love to know is - how many illegal streams and downloads are taking place. This is a key number IMO.


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> Why are you so quick to get defensive? I don’t give a fuck about missing the projected goal by “5,000 viewers”. They did well, which we the fans and those in charge were expecting, so why would you NOT come with the best show you could put together? That is not hotshotting, it is capitalizing on your hotshot booking from last week. Hotshotting is not inherently bad if you capitalize and dial it back. They ONLY dialed it back.
> 
> Exactly. We can all agree that was not their best show, right? Then we can all agree that is a missed opportunity to fully capitalize on Sting’s debut, and since they didn’t, I don’t expect next week’s numbers to be all too different than their normal 800-850k range when striking with a great fallout show to Sting’s arrival and Omega’s victory would have raised the ceiling to a potential new norm in the 900-950k range.


Ratings fluctuate. Fallout from big events like ppv or a big debut get larger audiences. Predicting ratings going up this week & dropping after isn't hard too make - won't prove whatever point you're trying to make


----------



## Shock Street

10gizzle said:


> What I'd really love to know is - how many illegal streams and downloads are taking place. This is a key number IMO.


I had a whole post written out asking you to explain how illegal streamers are helping... And then I suddenly realize that *I *pirate Dynamite but buy the PPVS (and have a couple shirts) so nevermind


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it was a mutually beneficial thing though - AEW got the certainty of 4 stable years, maning they know they have time
> 
> and TNT got a great deal
> 
> next round is gonna be harder for TNT


Warner will buy aew before end of contract to prevent other parties increasing price. Eventually dynamite will make way to HBO max


----------



## DammitChrist

10gizzle said:


> What I'd really love to know is - how many illegal streams and downloads are taking place. This is a key number IMO.


Yea, I pretty much rely on the illegal streams/downloads when I watch NXT as soon as Dynamite finishes airing on TV because I don’t want to wait 22-24 hours to watch the other show. I’ve pretty much been doing this for 14 months now (since Dynamite first aired on TV).

I also did use those illegal streams/downloads to watch all the NJPW events this past summer. I’ve mostly stopped doing that in early-September since I subscribed/paid for NJPW World to use as a network for those events. 

I only use those streams/downloads nowadays to watch NJPW Strong for that promotion.

I’m also curious to see how many wrestling fans use the same tactic as me for WWE, AEW, and even NJPW too.


----------



## bdon

Pippen94 said:


> Ratings fluctuate. Fallout from big events like ppv or a big debut get larger audiences. Predicting ratings going up this week & dropping after isn't hard too make - won't prove whatever point you're trying to make


Actually, them not growing their audience on a consistent basis proves my point.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pippen94 said:


> Warner will buy aew before end of contract to prevent other parties increasing price. Eventually dynamite will make way to HBO max


gotta have a willing seller.

doubt TK is ready to sell just yet


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> Actually, them not growing their audience on a consistent basis proves my point.


Pretty sure product has been growing steadily since middle of year - recorded best demo 3 out 4 of last weeks


----------



## 10gizzle

Piracy is good for business. Kinda.

Piracy was behind the most successful TV show of all time.

What if we suddenly found out, 500K people a week either downloaded it or streamed it - how would everyones opinion of AEW change?

Because I know HBO loved the fact that GoT would get downloaded illegally 100M times. The CEO said that he believed that eventually, those pirates would eventually see the value once they get more disposable income and become paying customers.


----------



## 10gizzle

Pippen94 said:


> Pretty sure product has been growing steadily since middle of year - recorded best demo 3 out 4 of last weeks


This argument isn't worth response anymore. No wrestling promotion period is growing their audience right now. 

I could just say, well Dynamite has hit back to back 900K+ for the first time since September, that's growth! Right?

They did 600-700 for months and now do more, isn't that growth too?

That number has only to do with ad sales and nothing else. If you're charting the growth of a company by looking at only one variable, what's the point.

In case we haven't noticed, a lot of the business world globally has stalled, struggled, leaned out or died off. (obviously others continuing to make even more money)


----------



## imthegame19

TKO Wrestling said:


> I think WWE is priced right, AEW is just cheap. TNT took the risk and, so far, it has paid off nicely for them. Will be very interesting to see what 2023 TV negotiations bring WWE & AEW. I think both go up in $$$.



The thing is TNT already had AEW under contract through October 2021 at just the ad revenue split. The only reason TNT gave them 175 million was have them under contract for year three and four. So it's really two year extension at 87.5 million per year. With TNT having option for 5th year rumored to be at 100 million. 


So there's nothing AEW could do about first two years of the deal. That's original deal he had to take to get them on tv. TNT wasn't going to pay them anymore for 19-21 when they had them under contract. Having it be four year deal just allowed AEW money in 2020. Which they due to the pandemic they ended up desperately needed to grow and add more talent. The fact AEW still makes money from ad revenue split which was part of original deal. Shows this was more of extension then new four year deal.


You could maybe have argued that if they waited longer. They could have got more money from TNT in extension. Maybe in normal year that would have been possible. But after Pandemic very few things are getting big money deals right now like that. So Tony Khan made very smart move taking the money when he did. Which was whole reason he started the company. Since he saw new way to make money in wrestling business was all tv money. When 10 to 20 years ago things where very different. 



That's why place like TNA could never get anywhere. Since at their peak Spike only paid them rumored to be 7.8 million a year. But Spike did pay for Sting, Angle, Hogan and Bischoff contracts for TNA I guess. But that company didn't draw attendance or ppv buys and merchandise sales weren't big. While tv money was much much smaller at the time. Nowadays ticket sales, ppvs and merchandise is all bonus. AEW does well at that but also limits shows and ppvs. Not to overdue and start losing money on shows.


----------



## Erik.

10gizzle said:


> This argument isn't worth response anymore. No wrestling promotion period is growing their audience right now.
> 
> I could just say, well Dynamite has hit back to back 900K+ for the first time since September, that's growth! Right?
> 
> They did 600-700 for months and now do more, isn't that growth too?
> 
> That number has only to do with ad sales and nothing else. If you're charting the growth of a company by looking at only one variable, what's the point.
> 
> In case we haven't noticed, a lot of the business world globally has stalled, struggled, leaned out or died off. (obviously others continuing to make even more money)


No, because they'll get <900k next week and be on their way to dying again!!


----------



## imthegame19

10gizzle said:


> What I'd really love to know is - how many illegal streams and downloads are taking place. This is a key number IMO.


Yeah that's one of many reasons why you can't compare wrestling ratings from 10 to 20 years ago. Even if you don't do illegal streams or downloads. You can go on YouTube on WWE or AEW official page and see highlights of best stuff on the shows as soon as it ends. 


I remember I use to work nights 4 years ago and get home at 1030 and wanna watch Raw. I didn't have DVR or want to download or stream it illegally from some site. But went on YouTube app on my tv and bunch of people where putting Raw illegally on there. So I could watch the show that night before YouTube would pull the stream.


IMO wrestling hasn't lost nearly as many fans as people think based off ratings. If people really think 1.7 to 1.9 million people are only watching Raw and 800 to 1 million are watching AEW. Well I think you are very wrong. I would saw both shows have at least double the audience the ratings show in US alone. They are just watching it different ways. That don't track on traditional ratings way.


----------



## 10gizzle

imthegame19 said:


> Yeah that's one of many reasons why you can't compare wrestling ratings from 10 to 20 years ago. Even if you don't do illegal streams or downloads. You can go on YouTube on WWE or AEW official page and see highlights of best stuff on the shows as soon as it ends.
> 
> 
> I remember I use to work nights 4 years ago and get home at 1030 and wanna watch Raw. I didn't have DVR or want to download or stream it illegally from some site. But went on YouTube app on my tv and bunch of people where putting Raw illegally on there. So I could watch the show that night before YouTube would pull the stream.
> 
> 
> IMO wrestling hasn't lost nearly as many fans as people think based off ratings. If people really think 1.7 to 1.9 million people are only watching Raw and 800 to 1 million are watching AEW. Well I think you are very wrong. I would saw both shows have at least double the audience the ratings show in US alone. They are just watching it different ways. That don't track on traditional ratings way.


On top of this, casual fans who may be ashamed to watch it live around family, friends, spouses whatever, can now easily watch it anytime anyplace safely and happily without hearing "is this for kids?", "do people actually watch this?".

I've watched every episode or close to it - not a single one live or on TV at all.

Hopefully they can buy up some quality content and present a nice streaming service.

Their capital and TNT's backing and infrastructure would probably be more advantageous to companies like IMPACT, ROH and others simply to get paid in licensing fees rather than run it themselves.

WORLDWIDE WRESTLING NETWORK

AEW + IMPACT + ROH + MLW + NJPW

How much do you think a wrestling fan would pay monthly for access to all those shows and libraries together?


----------



## patpat

imthegame19 said:


> Q1: Bucks vs TH2: 934K, 531K demo
> Q2: Darby vid, Cody/Sting segment: 1,069m, 645K
> Q3: FTR vs Varsity Blondes, Page/Silver&Reynolds backstage skit: 1,022m, 593k
> Q4: Dustin vs 10, Shaq interview: 1,063m, 618K
> Q5: Inner Circle ultimatum, FTR interview, beginning of 6 men tag match: 1,010m, 593K
> Q6: Rest of 6 men tag match, Abadon vs Tesha, post match with Shida attacking Abadon: 926k, 547k
> Q7: Callis/Omega promo, preview of next weeks show: 963k, 581K
> Q8: OC vs MJF: 971K, 563k


So literally only 4 segments grew viewers/gained viewers 
Sting/ shaq segment/ omega don callis/ the main event 
Everything else lost viewers the most worrying being christ Jericho bleeding 50k viewers. Not good for him


----------



## patpat

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I think this shows they maaaaaybe didn’t advertise the main event enough?
> 
> could’ve held that 1m


No, they put the women match in Q6 again which of course is a deadly combo. Q6 is the death quarter and they put nothing interesting there. They only patched it by putting omega in Q7 which brought 40k people in and stopped the bleeding, the main event also maintained that viewership and added 10k to it. The problem is the first hour, the fact that it was at 1m doesnt mean shit because appart from sting shaq/dustin? Everything else lost a lot of viewers so they were way weaker heading into their 6th quarter. 
My analysis might be wrong thk


----------



## Joe Gill

Just about every entertainment product that has a live audience has seen a huge decline in ratings. Look at the NBA, NHL and WWE as examples. Also remember that every year more people cut the cord and tv audiences are declining by about 10% a year on average. The fact that AEWs ratings are similar to where they were a year ago is actually pretty impressive. 
AEW is setting themselves up nicely for a big payday when their contract is up... TNT and other networks will be willing to pay huge dollars for a 52 episode a year program that draws around 1 million viewers per episode that does well in the key demo.


----------



## Bubbly

imthegame19 said:


> Q1: Bucks vs TH2: 934K, 531K demo
> Q2: Darby vid, Cody/Sting segment: 1,069m, 645K
> Q3: FTR vs Varsity Blondes, Page/Silver&Reynolds backstage skit: 1,022m, 593k
> Q4: Dustin vs 10, Shaq interview: 1,063m, 618K
> Q5: Inner Circle ultimatum, FTR interview, beginning of 6 men tag match: 1,010m, 593K
> Q6: Rest of 6 men tag match, Abadon vs Tesha, post match with Shida attacking Abadon: 926k, 547k
> Q7: Callis/Omega promo, preview of next weeks show: 963k, 581K
> Q8: OC vs MJF: 971K, 563k


Thanks for posting this.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

10gizzle said:


> Piracy is good for business. Kinda.
> 
> Piracy was behind the most successful TV show of all time.
> 
> What if we suddenly found out, 500K people a week either downloaded it or streamed it - how would everyones opinion of AEW change?
> 
> Because I know HBO loved the fact that GoT would get downloaded illegally 100M times. The CEO said that he believed that eventually, those pirates would eventually see the value once they get more disposable income and become paying customers.


i think piracy helps wrestling more in times when there is live tickets to buy - you can’t pirate the gate

it should still help merch sales though - but personally i am an adamant anti-piracy...... IF you can afford it

as soon as i got the cash, i only thought it fair to legally support what i like


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

patpat said:


> No, they put the women match in Q6 again which of course is a deadly combo. Q6 is the death quarter and they put nothing interesting there. They only patched it by putting omega in Q7 which brought 40k people in and stopped the bleeding, the main event also maintained that viewership and added 10k to it. The problem is the first hour, the fact that it was at 1m doesnt mean shit because appart from sting shaq/dustin? Everything else lost a lot of viewers so they were way weaker heading into their 6th quarter.
> My analysis might be wrong thk


nope Patty, think you’re right


----------



## bdon

Erik. said:


> No, because they'll get <900k next week and be on their way to dying again!!


Doing the Sting and Mox/Omega angles all at once isn’t just to pop the rating once. It is about bringing brand awareness and new/lapsed eyes to the product.

If they’re right back at 800-850k next week, then they just wasted their rabbit in the hat trick to wow the audience.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

There is no reason for them to dip below 900 and 0.40 for the rest of the year

another big show coming 30 Dec

Jan can be slow again - but Dec should be red hot


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> There is no reason for them to dip below 900 and 0.40 for the rest of the year
> 
> another big show coming 30 Dec
> 
> Jan can be slow again - but Dec should be red hot


Agreed. It shouldn’t, but with that weaker show when you know you’re very likely getting more eyes than at any other time since the debut episode, then you have to knock that one out of the park.

Unfortunately, we all mostly agree that it did not live up to expectations.


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> gotta have a willing seller.
> 
> doubt TK is ready to sell just yet


You're right - not like he needs money


bdon said:


> Agreed. It shouldn’t, but with that weaker show when you know you’re very likely getting more eyes than at any other time since the debut episode, then you have to knock that one out of the park.
> 
> Unfortunately, we all mostly agree that it did not live up to expectations.


Looking at ratings breakdown not many ppl switched out during course of show - pretty good indication what was presented held attention


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> There is no reason for them to dip below 900 and 0.40 for the rest of the year
> 
> another big show coming 30 Dec
> 
> Jan can be slow again - but Dec should be red hot


Ratings ebb & flow. What I've noticed is that bigger shows are doing bigger ratings. I think special eps will do higher demos going forward


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ...... american cable shows brah, on american television - so we can have an actual comparison
> 
> all that you just typed means something to only 3% of this forum - besides, Union smokes league and spits out the remains
> 
> which USA cable shows (not sport, mind - shows) gets the ad dollars flowing in your opinion
> 
> CABLE SHOWS. USA


Don’t you live in South Africa?

Also, given the Cracker Barrel thing, I think we know you’re going to twist anything to being 18-49. It’s well known that they’re for old white peo



LifeInCattleClass said:


> then by all that is holy....... how can you be so adamant and immovable that the ads in AEW is worth less for something like 2 weeks now???????
> 
> is this candid camera or something? Twilight zone? Who am I? Where are we? What is going on?


This is common knowledge at this point. Wrestling being bad for advertising is not an insane assertion at all. 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> nope, we can agree that you don’t adequately want to explore the reality of the topic on the off-chance that you’re wrong


Labour for me! No, not that kind of labour! It has to be within my exact parameters! 



bdon said:


> Couple things, here:
> 
> 1) State Farm is an everyone thing. Do you have license to drive in the US? You need insurance. Simple as that. It is against the law to operate a vehicle without being covered on insurance.
> 
> 2) Video game companies definitely are not avoiding wrestling like the Black Plague. Geek cultures tend to stand together, and gaming industry KNOWS that wrestling fans love playing video games and eating ho-ho’s in their momma’s basement more than they do watch wrestling. Heh


In Australia we have compulsory third party. Obviously that doesn’t matter to your whack country, but even insurance being compulsory doesn’t really make SF an 18-49 thing. It’s probably more an everyone thing, with main advertisements being towards older people to shift their policies, as opposed to targeting young people who HAVE to get it to live life.

Hear your point about the video games, haha. But which games are in bed with AEW? Not saying that to be contentious, but are there any? It’s possible that wrestlinf



Erik. said:


> No, because they'll get <900k next week and be on their way to dying again!!


No. One. Says. They’re. Dying. 



imthegame19 said:


> Yeah that's one of many reasons why you can't compare wrestling ratings from 10 to 20 years ago. Even if you don't do illegal streams or downloads. You can go on YouTube on WWE or AEW official page and see highlights of best stuff on the shows as soon as it ends.
> 
> 
> I remember I use to work nights 4 years ago and get home at 1030 and wanna watch Raw. I didn't have DVR or want to download or stream it illegally from some site. But went on YouTube app on my tv and bunch of people where putting Raw illegally on there. So I could watch the show that night before YouTube would pull the stream.
> 
> 
> IMO wrestling hasn't lost nearly as many fans as people think based off ratings. If people really think 1.7 to 1.9 million people are only watching Raw and 800 to 1 million are watching AEW. Well I think you are very wrong. I would saw both shows have at least double the audience the ratings show in US alone. They are just watching it different ways. That don't track on traditional ratings way.


No one thinks the TV ratings are all there literally are. The numbers aren’t literal, but avatars to a larger nymber



bdon said:


> Agreed. It shouldn’t, but with that weaker show when you know you’re very likely getting more eyes than at any other time since the debut episode, then you have to knock that one out of the park.
> 
> Unfortunately, we all mostly agree that it did not live up to expectations.


People have bad taste. I’m not going to be surprised if “Bad AEW” hits more marks than “Good AEW.” It won’t affect my opinion that pro-wrestling would be better.


----------



## imthegame19

LifeInCattleClass said:


> There is no reason for them to dip below 900 and 0.40 for the rest of the year
> 
> another big show coming 30 Dec
> 
> Jan can be slow again - but Dec should be red hot


Well December 23rd show isn't airing to later at night. NBA back on TNT Wednesday 23rd. So AEW won't be on to after the game. So You gotta give that show a pass. Since not everyone will be staying up late to watch it and will watch it the next day instead.


----------



## patpat

bdon said:


> Agreed. It shouldn’t, but with that weaker show when you know you’re very likely getting more eyes than at any other time since the debut episode, then you have to knock that one out of the park.
> 
> Unfortunately, we all mostly agree that it did not live up to expectations.


I agree with all your criticism, but what I can give them credit for is that compared to last year at the same time. Its night and day. Last year at this time they were doing 700k and nothing was going on, this year they are giving birth to what might become their biggest star and brought back sting


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> *Don’t you live in South Africa?*


Yes?

and it is splendidly easy for anybody around the world to look at the showbuzzdaily report of USA tv and giving an opinion on what programs draw the big bucks

if their opinion is valid on wrestling, why should it be any less on other programs?



i’ll even do you a solid. This Wed, same night that Dynamite was on - IMO Challenge (MTV) - higher rating / and Real Housewives of OC (lower rating) actually had more valuable ads than Dynamite
The rest of the top 150 will have similar or lower value ads than Dynamite - hence, making the wrestling market NOT less valuable than normal programming

super easy to confirm - we ask @Two Sheds to check it out and list the ads and compare

you can’t have all these absolute statements about the ‘worth of a market’ without somebody at some point litmus testing it


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> There is no reason for them to dip below 900 and 0.40 for the rest of the year
> 
> another big show coming 30 Dec
> 
> Jan can be slow again - but Dec should be red hot


The show in 2 weeks is going to air after 10 pm so i don't see a show that late do 900K.


----------



## Aedubya

10gizzle said:


> Hey I just saw it on reddit.
> 
> I mentioned it to my buddy in the industry and he was very impressed apparently since pro wrestling is very rough market in Brazil.
> 
> Can see them wanting to plant a flag there with more Brazilian talent. Cyborg. Wanderlei? Anderson Silva?
> 
> Can build an entire pancrase style division just with Brazliian talent alone.


Team Taynara Conti


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> In Australia we have compulsory third party. *Obviously that doesn’t matter to your whack country,* but even insurance being compulsory doesn’t really make SF an 18-49 thing. It’s probably more an everyone thing, with main advertisements being towards older people to shift their policies, as opposed to targeting young people who HAVE to get it to live life.
> 
> Hear your point about the video games, haha. But which games are in bed with AEW? Not saying that to be contentious, but are there any? It’s possible that


Rude

on the games bit.... did you not see they chose to market the hottest game of the year - Cyberpunk 2077 on a Dynamite ad break according to the list?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> The show in 2 weeks is going to air after 10 pm so i don't see a show that late do 900K.


oh, didn’t know that

yeah, that won’t do above 900 - fair play


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> This is common knowledge at this point. Wrestling being bad for advertising is not an insane assertion at all


but, it is.

it is unproved and untested. Yet you speak it as fact with confidence

i’m contesting it - but you guys don’t want to prove it.

so, your opinion about the matter then in turn has to come into question - what other possible outcome is there?


----------



## zaz102

Hey, I found that Reddit Census, but am a little confused. First, it was a small sample size (8k total reddit users) Wouldn't you have to at least compare the data to another reddit sub (i.e. television) to get a feel that the wrestling key demo is worth less (and how much less) than a typical TV key demo?

It could be true, but let's be honest thats a pretty small sample size and I know broke people that buy a lot of stuff too. And there's nothing to compare to.

I'm not in marketing though, anybody have an idea how this leap was made?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

@The Wood 

quick google of cracker barrel’s 2020 ads

old people ad? Or family focused? (Hence 18-49)


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

zaz102 said:


> Hey, I found that Reddit Census, but am a little confused. First, it was a small sample size (8k total reddit users) Wouldn't you have to at least compare the data to another reddit sub (i.e. television) to get a feel that the wrestling key demo is worth less (and how much less) than a typical TV key demo?
> 
> It could be true, but let's be honest thats a pretty small sample size and I know broke people that buy a lot of stuff too. And there's nothing to compare to.
> 
> I'm not in marketing though, anybody have an idea how this leap was made?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


no, you’re correct

the survey cannot be used to determine the value of the market if it isn’t compared with similar surveys with other markets

ie) find the same survey for comic books, gamers, furries or whatever - and only then can you determine the relative value


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> @The Wood
> 
> quick google of cracker barrel’s 2020 ads
> 
> old people ad? Or family focused? (Hence 18-49)


Dude, Cracker Barrel is for old fucks. Trust me. @Two Sheds or any other US citizen can and will confirm.

@The Wood , they did apparently run some ads for Cyber Punk 2077, which is a game I’ve been looking forward to for a year or two. It’s high anticipated.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Dude, Cracker Barrel is for old fucks. Trust me. @Two Sheds or any other US citizen can and will confirm.
> 
> @The Wood , they did apparently run some ads for Cyber Punk 2077, which is a game I’ve been looking forward to for a year or two. It’s high anticipated.


is it a family restaurant or not mate?

when you go in on a wednesday evening - who is sitting there?

now.... this is a trick question.... an ‘old peoples’ restaurant will not be open on a wednesday evening - so, think carefully

edit) and just to be completely open about where this is going - it doesn’t even matter. The AD skews to family friendly - ie) even if they are for old fucks..... and stick with me here.... they are trying to advertise to A YOUNGER DEMO TO GET YOUNGER CUSTOMERS - HENCE THE WHOLE POINT OF ADVERTISING TO A FUCKING DEMO

_ahem_

you advertise to attract the customers you want to gain


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Dude, Cracker Barrel is for old fucks. Trust me. @Two Sheds or any other US citizen can and will confirm.
> 
> @The Wood , they did apparently run some ads for Cyber Punk 2077, which is a game I’ve been looking forward to for a year or two. It’s high anticipated.


Ah yes, I did see CyberPunk. That is one, I’ll give you that. With that said, that’s such a big release it wouldn’t surprise me if they’re advertising on coffee foam.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> Dude, Cracker Barrel is for old fucks. Trust me. @Two Sheds or any other US citizen can and will confirm.
> 
> @The Wood , they did apparently run some ads for Cyber Punk 2077, which is a game I’ve been looking forward to for a year or two. It’s high anticipated.


Cracker Barrel has definitely been known as old person central for decades. It has had that reputation for a long time. Other than an ex-boss who had a weird obsession with it, no one under 70 wants to go there. It literally has an old guy on the logo sitting down in an old wooden chair to remind you of a "simpler time."

Their website's loading icon is an old animated rocking chair.










One confused foreigner asks here:


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/oldpeoplefacebook/comments/24htgs

Now they may WANT to revamp their image by attracting younger people. I do not blame them for that. But no one is wrong for calling it an old people's restaurant. Like Shoney's haha.


----------



## 3venflow

H2H quarter hours.


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> Cracker Barrel has definitely been known as old person central for decades. It has had that reputation for a long time. Other than an ex-boss who had a weird obsession with it, no one under 70 wants to go there. It literally has an old guy on the logo sitting down in an old wooden chair to remind you of a "simpler time."
> 
> Their website's loading icon is an old animated rocking chair.
> 
> View attachment 94805
> 
> 
> One confused foreigner asks here:
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/oldpeoplefacebook/comments/24htgs
> 
> Now they may WANT to revamp their image by attracting younger people. I do not blame them for that. But no one is wrong for calling it an old people's restaurant. Like Shoney's haha.


Do Shoney’s still exist..?


----------



## Shock Street

LifeInCattleClass said:


> no, you’re correct
> 
> the survey cannot be used to determine the value of the market if it isn’t compared with similar surveys with other markets
> 
> ie) find the same survey for comic books, gamers, furries or whatever - and only then can you determine the relative value


There's also no way to account for the fact that Reddit (forums in general) attracts a specific type of person when you're doing a census like that. Nobody casual is answering surveys on a niche reddit.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> Do Shoney’s still exist..?


Apparently


----------



## The Wood

I’ve seen memes of people posting Cracker Barrel and saying “I know what restaurant this is just by the clientele.”

Completely agree that they might want to change that image, but there are more pressing ways to do that than advertising to a bunch of predominantly white nerds watching Dynamite.


----------



## Shock Street

3venflow said:


> H2H quarter hours.
> 
> View attachment 94806


Yeah I can see how that Shaq and Brandi segment started to make people swim off unfortunately


----------



## The Wood

Shock Street said:


> There's also no way to account for the fact that Reddit (forums in general) attracts a specific type of person when you're doing a census like that. Nobody casual is answering surveys on a niche reddit.


Agreed, but those are the types of fans this type of wrestling attracts. It’s just not cool. I’m sorry, and I know there are people who love it with all their hearts, but if we’re going to be realistic, it’s just not cool.

WWE isn’t cool either, but _at least_ WWE can pull the “look at our athletes” line. They’ve got some very pretty people working for them, and they provide a gentrified style of entertainment for whoever does want to take their family to that sort of thing. They’re very much a circus.

AEW is like some niche anime that wants to be DBZ but doesn’t understand that anime was just the medium to deliver the action to western audiences. They think they’re cool _because_ they’re anime.


----------



## zaz102

The Wood said:


> Agreed, but those are the types of fans this type of wrestling attracts. It’s just not cool. I’m sorry, and I know there are people who love it with all their hearts, but if we’re going to be realistic, it’s just not cool.
> 
> WWE isn’t cool either, but _at least_ WWE can pull the “look at our athletes” line. They’ve got some very pretty people working for them, and they provide a gentrified style of entertainment for whoever does want to take their family to that sort of thing. They’re very much a circus.
> 
> AEW is like some niche anime that wants to be DBZ but doesn’t understand that anime was just the medium to deliver the action to western audiences. They think they’re cool _because_ they’re anime.


All I'm pointing out i think someone acted like it was a fact that wrestling audience is worth very little. And key demo doesn't matter, only total numbers matter.

I'm learning about this stuff, but there is no evidence how much a wrestling audience is worth less to an advertiser except for the reported deals cut (SD $1B, NXT $50M per year, AEW $175M).

Why are the wrestling companies getting big deals if their audience can't spend money? Why does the demo not matter for wrestling when it matters for all other TV shows?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## kingfrass44

Joe Gill said:


> Just about every entertainment product that has a live audience has seen a huge decline in ratings. Look at the NBA, NHL and WWE as examples. Also remember that every year more people cut the cord and tv audiences are declining by about 10% a year on average. The fact that AEWs ratings are similar to where they were a year ago is actually pretty impressive.
> AEW is setting themselves up nicely for a big payday when their contract is up... TNT and other networks will be willing to pay huge dollars for a 52 episode a year program that draws around 1 million viewers per episode that does well in the key demo.


Stop making excuses


----------



## 3venflow

Something big happening next week?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1337555216464556032


----------



## Shock Street

The Wood said:


> Agreed, but those are the types of fans this type of wrestling attracts. It’s just not cool. I’m sorry, and I know there are people who love it with all their hearts, but if we’re going to be realistic, it’s just not cool.
> 
> WWE isn’t cool either, but _at least_ WWE can pull the “look at our athletes” line. They’ve got some very pretty people working for them, and they provide a gentrified style of entertainment for whoever does want to take their family to that sort of thing. They’re very much a circus.
> 
> AEW is like some niche anime that wants to be DBZ but doesn’t understand that anime was just the medium to deliver the action to western audiences. They think they’re cool _because_ they’re anime.


Oh I'll always be the first to call this shit niche. I love it, but I dont blame others for not loving it by any means.

Also I would mark out if Hercule was All Elite and thats a shoot brother HH


----------



## Erik.

3venflow said:


> Something big happening next week?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1337555216464556032


Sting vs.Shaq is my guess.

Battle of the millions.


----------



## 3venflow

It's Kenny vs. Janela in a hardcore match.


----------



## One Shed

Erik. said:


> Sting vs.Shaq is my guess.
> 
> Battle of the millions.


Oh, I really hope not.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

10gizzle said:


> I see we have the usual, people dissecting advertising, marketing, sponsorships without knowing anything about it.
> 
> Saying that Shaq and Snoop are over the hill celebrities whereas Ariana Grande and Miley Cyrus are what would help?
> 
> This hot shotting shit is ridiculous. One big match and they're giving shit away left right and centre?
> 
> I can assure you, ACTUAL people who work in pro wrestling are impressed with AEW and consider their run so far to be a success.


Thought this would be fun to comment on. What's a good gauge of a celebs popularity these days? Most people here use Twitter so lets use Twitter:

Ariana Grande followers on Twitter: 79.7 million

Miley Cyrus followers on Twitter: 46.5 million

Shaq followers on Twitter: 15.5 million

Snoop Dogg followers on Twitter: 19.1 million

---

Not saying Shaq and Snoop aren't impressive because they are but Ariana Grande and Miley Cyrus singing a duet on Dynamite promoted by the two would reach just over 125 million people on Twitter alone. Shaq and Snoop would reach 34 million people which is a great effort but not worth even one of the people I suggested (Bieber by himself has 113 million followers by the way)

They give a lot away for free. Sting could've debuted on PPV instead we got Gangrel and Hurricane (Lol). We get all sorts of gimmick matches, celebrities etc on TV and PPV is pretty neglected tbh (Unless you love LONGGGG DRAWNNNN OUTTTT MATCHESSSS)

I'm an actual person who works in pro wrestling (Hello!) and most of my friends are also. I don't know anyone who likes it except one friend who wrestled in America and I'm confident he only likes it because he's mates with Marko Stunt and got to meet a few of the boys working there before they got signed because he's a traditionalist like me.



ECFuckinW said:


> Lmao where are all those idiots saying how bad AEW messed up sting and they bet they barely would average 700k viewers?
> 
> Suck it AEW doing great.


Nobody said this. People either predicted over a million or under. Nobody said 700k.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> There is no reason for them to dip below 900 and 0.40 for the rest of the year
> 
> another big show coming 30 Dec
> 
> Jan can be slow again - but Dec should be red hot


I saw something on Reddit that AEW had done more big shows than every brand of WWE combined. 16 total or something like that.

If you regularly do big special shows they stop being big and special.



bdon said:


> Dude, Cracker Barrel is for old fucks. Trust me. @Two Sheds or any other US citizen can and will confirm.
> 
> @The Wood , they did apparently run some ads for Cyber Punk 2077, which is a game I’ve been looking forward to for a year or two. It’s high anticipated.


It's actually ludicrous that a man from South Africa is arguing with a man from the United States about how a restaurant in the United States is viewed by United States citizens.

It'd be like CattleClass trying to argue with me about Bunnings Warehouse.



zaz102 said:


> All I'm pointing out i think someone acted like it was a fact that wrestling audience is worth very little. And key demo doesn't matter, only total numbers matter.
> 
> I'm learning about this stuff, but there is no evidence how much a wrestling audience is worth less to an advertiser except for the reported deals cut (SD $1B, NXT $50M per year, AEW $175M).
> 
> Why are the wrestling companies getting big deals if their audience can't spend money? Why does the demo not matter for wrestling when it matters for all other TV shows?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


WWE is a very hot product and has been for decades now. It gets the big numbers because it has a built in audience (That is quite large), has plenty of contacts (They can get guys like Rock, Brock etc) and it's the best staff for professional wrestling on the planet.

The ads are fine for cheap products, wrestling fans have money just not a lot of it.


----------



## zaz102

So as I mentioned before I am working on some trends, but here's a sample of some analysis I'm doing. If anybody has any ideas on what type of data analysis makes sense, I'm all ears.

Notes:

I used NXT as a reference point. I could care less if AEW beats NXT in ratings, but it's the closest product (including similar cable service and premiere date).
I eyeballed the trendlines, but they're pretty accurate.
I took out the first month (OCT) of the shows since there was the high initial pop before it came down to earth.

AEW

Pre-COVID (NOV 2019 – MAR 2020) Trend: 810K – 890K / 0.34 – 0.33
Post-COVID (APR 2020 – DEC 2020) Trend: 700K – 900K / 0.27 – 0.25
NXT

Pre-COVID (NOV 2019 – MAR 2020) Trend: 810K – 690K / 0.25 – 0.38
Post-COVID (APR 2020 – DEC 2020) Trend: 690K – 700K / 0.17 – 0.16

My takeaways:

* Pre-COVID: AEW was growing it's audience while demo was static. NXT audience shrank while demo grew.

* COVID: Huge impact on AEW ratings and demo and almost no impact on NXT rating, but hurt their demo.

* Post-COVID: AEW recovered and is growing its audience to where it was before COVID and demo is better than before. NXT has remained almost completely static.

* My analysis is that AEW is on the right path. Again, I'm not in marketing or a statistician, but I'm trying to use logic as to what make sense to analyze. And again I'm all ears if anyone has any input on what to look at.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

zaz102 said:


> So as I mentioned before I am working on some trends, but here's a sample of some analysis I'm doing. If anybody has any ideas on what type of data analysis makes sense, I'm all ears.
> 
> Notes:
> 
> I used NXT as a reference point. I could care less if AEW beats NXT in ratings, but it's the closest product (including similar cable service and premiere date).
> I eyeballed the trendlines, but they're pretty accurate.
> I took out the first month (OCT) of the shows since there was the high initial pop before it came down to earth.
> 
> AEW
> 
> Pre-COVID (NOV 2019 – MAR 2020) Trend: 810K – 890K / 0.34 – 0.33
> Post-COVID (APR 2020 – DEC 2020) Trend: 700K – 900K / 0.27 – 0.25
> NXT
> 
> Pre-COVID (NOV 2019 – MAR 2020) Trend: 810K – 690K / 0.25 – 0.38
> Post-COVID (APR 2020 – DEC 2020) Trend: 690K – 700K / 0.17 – 0.16
> 
> My takeaways:
> 
> * Pre-COVID: AEW was growing it's audience while demo was static. NXT audience shrank while demo grew.
> 
> * COVID: Huge impact on AEW ratings and demo and almost no impact on NXT rating, but hurt their demo.
> 
> * Post-COVID: AEW recovered and is growing its audience to where it was before COVID and demo is better than before. NXT has remained almost completely static.
> 
> * My analysis is that AEW is on the right path. Again, I'm not in marketing or a statistician, but I'm trying to use logic as to what make sense to analyze. And again I'm all ears if anyone has any input on what to look at.


Rt1981 did lmao and got called out for it.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

3venflow said:


> Something big happening next week?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1337555216464556032


#hotshot


----------



## 10gizzle

Chip Chipperson said:


> Thought this would be fun to comment on. What's a good gauge of a celebs popularity these days? Most people here use Twitter so lets use Twitter:
> 
> Ariana Grande followers on Twitter: 79.7 million
> 
> Miley Cyrus followers on Twitter: 46.5 million
> 
> Shaq followers on Twitter: 15.5 million
> 
> Snoop Dogg followers on Twitter: 19.1 million
> 
> ---
> 
> Not saying Shaq and Snoop aren't impressive because they are but Ariana Grande and Miley Cyrus singing a duet on Dynamite promoted by the two would reach just over 125 million people on Twitter alone. Shaq and Snoop would reach 34 million people which is a great effort but not worth even one of the people I suggested (Bieber by himself has 113 million followers by the way)
> 
> They give a lot away for free. Sting could've debuted on PPV instead we got Gangrel and Hurricane (Lol). We get all sorts of gimmick matches, celebrities etc on TV and PPV is pretty neglected tbh (Unless you love LONGGGG DRAWNNNN OUTTTT MATCHESSSS)
> 
> I'm an actual person who works in pro wrestling (Hello!) and most of my friends are also. I don't know anyone who likes it except one friend who wrestled in America and I'm confident he only likes it because he's mates with Marko Stunt and got to meet a few of the boys working there before they got signed because he's a traditionalist like me.


First of all, do you know how much these celebs get paid to advertise a single thing on their 50M+ following? I'm sure smarter people than us know what kind of ROI they can get on stuff like this. I know you worked in wrestling before but have you ever worked something with a scope of over 1M? 5M? 10M? 

Second, just because they sing a song on dynamite, does not mean their fans will become wrestling watchers lol. My woman still doesn't like Football even though she loves the Super Bowl half-time performances every year.

Third - how about all the other NBA players, TNT, etc that might retweet Shaqs involvement? I'd rather Shaq who can give a potential in on NBA superstars than artists who just dont really fit and wouldn't have any kind of lasting effect.

You yourself were mentioning hot shotting and how thats what they're doing with Shaq and Snoop. Wouldnt using even more followed celebrities hot shot even more? So you do agree doing things and investing money to try and increases visibility strategically isn't a fools errand. Let's wait until it plays out to judge. 

Lastly - giving away free shit early on is literally a strategy endless businesses use to generate good faith with their consumers hoping it pays off down the line. AEW doesn't have the luxury of taking their sweet as time too right, they gotta balance it out. With more talent from other promotions too, allows them to stretch out their talent and bide their time.


----------



## 3venflow

Snoop has 55m followers on Instagram. Let's hope he, unlike Shaq and Tyson (I'm not sure they even run their own accounts), advertises his appearance. I was disappointed neither did, because even if they got 50,000 new eyes on AEW, there could be some viewer retention.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

10gizzle said:


> First of all, do you know how much these celebs get paid to advertise a single thing on their 50M+ following? I'm sure smarter people than us know what kind of ROI they can get on stuff like this. I know you worked in wrestling before but have you ever worked something with a scope of over 1M? 5M? 10M?
> 
> Second, just because they sing a song on dynamite, does not mean their fans will become wrestling watchers lol. My woman still doesn't like Football even though she loves the Super Bowl half-time performances every year.
> 
> Third - how about all the other NBA players, TNT, etc that might retweet Shaqs involvement? I'd rather Shaq who can give a potential in on NBA superstars than artists who just dont really fit and wouldn't have any kind of lasting effect.
> 
> You yourself were mentioning hot shotting and how thats what they're doing with Shaq and Snoop. Wouldnt using even more followed celebrities hot shot even more? So you do agree doing things and investing money to try and increases visibility strategically isn't a fools errand. Let's wait until it plays out to judge.
> 
> Lastly - giving away free shit early on is literally a strategy endless businesses use to generate good faith with their consumers hoping it pays off down the line. AEW doesn't have the luxury of taking their sweet as time too right, they gotta balance it out. With more talent from other promotions too, allows them to stretch out their talent and bide their time.


1. I do actually, I have a friend that sponsored athletes for fitness supplements. He had a relatively well known (Not in the 50 million range) MMA fighter and it was 30-40 thousand for a 6 month period for one post a week from the guy plus free merch etc. I'd say a post from Miley or Ariana if they did do it though would be a lot of money but if AEW's demo is so spectacular Miley or Ariana should want in on it just to attract new people to what they've got going on (Promoting music etc)

2. It doesn't mean that but it's an attraction. Out of the combined 100 million people maybe 50 million see it and maybe 10% tune in to see a live concert. That's still 5 million people and would pump AEW's highest rating (And wrestling's really) in a decade plus. Maybe 10% of that 5 million tune in next week because the wrestling was really cool and they dig it, that's 500,000 extra fans.

Again though, my point isn't that they should be using these celebrities but it's that these celebrities publicits should be keen to get on the AEW show to advertise what they've going on to such an attractive audience. That is if AEW's demo is as important and sexy as some claim it is.

3. Shaq appeared on Dynamite and nobody but wrestling fans cared bro. Go to the NBA Reddit and search "Shaq AEW". Nothing popped up for me which means nobody talked about it.

A thread was made 30 days ago talking about Shaq possibly returning to wrestling for a match with Cody Rhodes. It got just 52 comments and these were some of the highest rated:

"He should have a tag team match against Dwight and Javale"

"Ahh yes, my favorite midcarder." (Referring to Cody)

"We need Ernie vs Kenny Omega."

"Cody has only lost 3 times since AEW started. He’s absolutely going over Shaq. He’s been booking himself in these fantasy matches with dream Indy/ex wwe opponents non stop."

They're already fans or are taking the piss.

4. Hotshotting refers to how these people are used not how popular they ar. If you have a gimmick match every week it loses it's value, if you have a celebrity on every week it loses it's value, if you have a big signing every week it loses it's value.

5. Most companies don't give out the biggest items they have for free.


----------



## DaSlacker

They already did the first ever Omega/Moxley match on PPV and have saved the rubber match for 2021. The second one having a screwy ending. 

There's only been 8 special episodes this year + 4 PPVs. What's the difference between that and the old 5 editions of Saturday Night Main Event or Clash of Champions + 4 or 5 PPVs?


----------



## 10gizzle

Chip Chipperson said:


> 1. I do actually, I have a friend that sponsored athletes for fitness supplements. He had a relatively well known (Not in the 50 million range) MMA fighter and it was 30-40 thousand for a 6 month period for one post a week from the guy plus free merch etc. I'd say a post from Miley or Ariana if they did do it though would be a lot of money but if AEW's demo is so spectacular Miley or Ariana should want in on it just to attract new people to what they've got going on (Promoting music etc)
> 
> 2. It doesn't mean that but it's an attraction. Out of the combined 100 million people maybe 50 million see it and maybe 10% tune in to see a live concert. That's still 5 million people and would pump AEW's highest rating (And wrestling's really) in a decade plus. Maybe 10% of that 5 million tune in next week because the wrestling was really cool and they dig it, that's 500,000 extra fans.
> 
> Again though, my point isn't that they should be using these celebrities but it's that these celebrities publicits should be keen to get on the AEW show to advertise what they've going on to such an attractive audience. That is if AEW's demo is as important and sexy as some claim it is.
> 
> 3. Shaq appeared on Dynamite and nobody but wrestling fans cared bro. Go to the NBA Reddit and search "Shaq AEW". Nothing popped up for me which means nobody talked about it.
> 
> A thread was made 30 days ago talking about Shaq possibly returning to wrestling for a match with Cody Rhodes. It got just 52 comments and these were some of the highest rated:
> 
> "He should have a tag team match against Dwight and Javale"
> 
> "Ahh yes, my favorite midcarder." (Referring to Cody)
> 
> "We need Ernie vs Kenny Omega."
> 
> "Cody has only lost 3 times since AEW started. He’s absolutely going over Shaq. He’s been booking himself in these fantasy matches with dream Indy/ex wwe opponents non stop."
> 
> They're already fans or are taking the piss.
> 
> 4. Hotshotting refers to how these people are used not how popular they ar. If you have a gimmick match every week it loses it's value, if you have a celebrity on every week it loses it's value, if you have a big signing every week it loses it's value.
> 
> 5. Most companies don't give out the biggest items they have for free.


This is solid - thanks for taking the time.

1 - I can't even touch on this as I have never dealt with sponsorships with any celebrities in any of my professional career. I am curious to find out. Gonna ask around about this. But hey, why not wait until the pandemic is over right before launching some big rockets in terms of celebs and marketing. 

2 - In terms of sheer number - nobody can argue that. But there's a lot that goes into that man. I'd rather AEW show themselves to 100M people once they have a consistently good product. Not while Tony Schiavone is yawning with the camera on him. Patience. They're already operating at a big loss so I can't see them aiming for the moon just yet.

3 - Everything Shaq has sucked. I could write something better. But TNT isn't going anywhere so hopefully Shaq pops in more in the future with something better setup for him to succeed. Honestly I can't relate to those people as I try not to be reactionary. I prefer to let things breathe. If they suck, so be it. 

4 - Gotcha. Definitely too many gimmick matches. Again - this is mostly filler IMO and is simply being done for the sake of being extra. Don't believe it'll have any long term negative impact on the product so soon. 

5 - We can't compare it like that. These guys are already signed to guaranteed deals. What notable feuds have they burned through? 

One match between Mox and Omega - sure, but that was also done to setup the next 6 months of stories and Mox has to go. 

As a consumer, should I really be mad that I get matches every now and then that I'd usually have to pay money for?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

10gizzle said:


> This is solid - thanks for taking the time.
> 
> 1 - I can't even touch on this as I have never dealt with sponsorships with any celebrities in any of my professional career. I am curious to find out. Gonna ask around about this. But hey, why not wait until the pandemic is over right before launching some big rockets in terms of celebs and marketing.
> 
> 2 - In terms of sheer number - nobody can argue that. But there's a lot that goes into that man. I'd rather AEW show themselves to 100M people once they have a consistently good product. Not while Tony Schiavone is yawning with the camera on him. Patience. They're already operating at a big loss so I can't see them aiming for the moon just yet.
> 
> 3 - Everything Shaq has sucked. I could write something better. But TNT isn't going anywhere so hopefully Shaq pops in more in the future with something better setup for him to succeed. Honestly I can't relate to those people as I try not to be reactionary. I prefer to let things breathe. If they suck, so be it.
> 
> 4 - Gotcha. Definitely too many gimmick matches. Again - this is mostly filler IMO and is simply being done for the sake of being extra. Don't believe it'll have any long term negative impact on the product so soon.
> 
> 5 - We can't compare it like that. These guys are already signed to guaranteed deals. What notable feuds have they burned through?
> 
> One match between Mox and Omega - sure, but that was also done to setup the next 6 months of stories and Mox has to go.
> 
> As a consumer, should I really be mad that I get matches every now and then that I'd usually have to pay money for?


Just going to answer questions:

They've burned through a fair bit on TV. Moxley had a half dozen hardcore matches on free TV that people might have been willing to pay for on PPV, Jericho Vs OC is something I don't think is PPV quality but they do and they gave it away for free twice on TV, Sting turning up should've happened on PPV (Where they promised something big would happen and it didn't), Mox Vs Omega (And the title change) should've been PPV. There are others as well.

As a consumer you should be stoked, it's great for you to be able to see all of this stuff happen for free live on TV. I don't often see wrestling as a fan anymore so maybe it's just a different viewpoint. I know before I got into the business and learned this stuff I'd have probably been stoked also.


----------



## 10gizzle

Chip Chipperson said:


> Just going to answer questions:
> 
> They've burned through a fair bit on TV. Moxley had a half dozen hardcore matches on free TV that people might have been willing to pay for on PPV, Jericho Vs OC is something I don't think is PPV quality but they do and they gave it away for free twice on TV, Sting turning up should've happened on PPV (Where they promised something big would happen and it didn't), Mox Vs Omega (And the title change) should've been PPV. There are others as well.
> 
> As a consumer you should be stoked, it's great for you to be able to see all of this stuff happen for free live on TV. I don't often see wrestling as a fan anymore so maybe it's just a different viewpoint. I know before I got into the business and learned this stuff I'd have probably been stoked also.


100% understand. You can't see it like I do because you've been in it. I feel that.

You gotta remember though, you're in a very, very small group of people who have that perspective. Nobody here knows what the biz is really like. It's like seeing a kid doing the same dumb mistakes over and over.

I'm just of the opinion that most of what's happened won't really be remembered much next year. I think they're playing with house money and even though they SHOULDN'T do dumb shit, they can afford to.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> Just going to answer questions:
> 
> They've burned through a fair bit on TV. Moxley had a half dozen hardcore matches on free TV that people might have been willing to pay for on PPV, Jericho Vs OC is something I don't think is PPV quality but they do and they gave it away for free twice on TV, Sting turning up should've happened on PPV (Where they promised something big would happen and it didn't), Mox Vs Omega (And the title change) should've been PPV. There are others as well.
> 
> As a consumer you should be stoked, it's great for you to be able to see all of this stuff happen for free live on TV. I don't often see wrestling as a fan anymore so maybe it's just a different viewpoint. I know before I got into the business and learned this stuff I'd have probably been stoked also.


TV is more important than ppv - it's reverse of Monday night wars. TV is biggest source of income & reason why company exists. Company had to run through pandemic!!

I think all big matches should be on special episodes of dynamite.

I'm starting to tgink that shoild only do interpromotional matches for ppv


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Just going to answer questions:
> 
> They've burned through a fair bit on TV. Moxley had a half dozen hardcore matches on free TV that people might have been willing to pay for on PPV, Jericho Vs OC is something I don't think is PPV quality but they do and they gave it away for free twice on TV, Sting turning up should've happened on PPV (Where they promised something big would happen and it didn't), Mox Vs Omega (And the title change) should've been PPV. There are others as well.
> 
> As a consumer you should be stoked, it's great for you to be able to see all of this stuff happen for free live on TV. I don't often see wrestling as a fan anymore so maybe it's just a different viewpoint. I know before I got into the business and learned this stuff I'd have probably been stoked also.


You know I don’t disagree with you in principle, but on the Sting and Mox/Omega 2 being given away on free tv, I’ll say this: there is something to be said for HOW they gave it away on free TV.

PPV was basically WCW’s entire bankroll. Dynamite is AEW’s. More importantly, when WCW went with its first massive storyline, Hogan was, what, 13 years removed from selling out the Silverdome, so him turning had EYES that were already going to demand attention. They (again this is just the way I seen it) used Sting’s debut to put a million+ eyes on the product at that very moment with the intent being to have those same eyes on the product when they went with their Hogan leg dropping Savage (and WCW) into oblivion moment.

I’m actually impressed they had the humility to see that the moment wouldn’t have the impact, no pun intended, if it were still only the Dynamite faithful watching, and I’m actually surprised you don’t see it this way.

Now we can totally agree and discuss how badly we think they dropped the ball on the fallout show to these happening, but the one night they stole the attention of the lapsed wrestling fan, said fan came back to see Sting and got to see the most rare of moments in wrestling: two American promotions working together in an angle.


----------



## DaSlacker

According to Meltzer, Full Gear 2019 was one of, if not the, lowest buy rate of all their PPVs. So Omega vs Moxley isn't the draw some think it is. The other issue is if you hold off the match and Sting debut until February, what do you do in the meantime to maintain interest. They could add another PPV but that could flood the market. There is money there, but how much is the question. The PPVs are $50 in North America, yet half of the buys are international. A shoehorned in December PPV might do 80,000 buys, therefore 2.8 million gross (AEW doesn't get all that of course). But Revolution then underperforms with a similar number. So there is an increase in revenue (1.4 million) and increase in expenditure due to running another PPV. Meanwhile Dynamite, hasn't had the nice little boost that it desperately needed.


----------



## 10gizzle

Chip Chipperson said:


> #hotshot


Yeah I hate his little updates and announcements.

I'd call that corny and forced more than hotshot though.

More unbearable.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> I’ve seen memes of people posting Cracker Barrel and saying “I know what restaurant this is just by the clientele.”
> 
> Completely agree that they might want to change that image, but there are more pressing ways to do that than advertising to a bunch of predominantly white nerds watching Dynamite.


like? Advertise on which show on a wednesday night on cable?

who has less ‘whiter nerds’ and more ‘rainbow coloured cool kids’ that Cracker Barrel so desperately wants

lets see how the program you choose stacks up against Dynamite’s ad range

also - everybody gets done in for the olde ‘ad hominem’ - but you really have just been reduced To cliche group insults, haven’t you? ‘white nerds’ 🤦‍♂️


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> It's actually ludicrous that a man from South Africa is arguing with a man from the United States about how a restaurant in the United States is viewed by United States citizens.
> 
> It'd be like CattleClass trying to argue with me about Bunnings Warehouse.


Lord give me strength to deal with these people

i am not debating what the restaurant is...... i am debating what it is advertising its perception to be - as that is relevant to the conversation 🤦‍♂️

if CB is full of old fucks, which i completely trust @Two Sheds and @bdon that they are - well, they are obviously trying to appeal to a younger audience by advertising to......what Chip? Complete the sentence...... THE KEY DEMO!

they are sure as shit not marketing on Dynamite for that sweet +50, because that is low. And not for the overall number, because that is way low compared to other programs. SO WHY THEN?

..... say it with me..... the key demo / they want to attract a younger audience, like a lot of companies do - it is the goal of marketing, to attract new customers you want to attract

you know what, people normally pay me a lot of money for f’kn marketing lessons, i’m gonna have to start to charge on here.


----------



## 10gizzle

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Lord give me strength to deal with these people
> 
> i am not debating what the restaurant is...... i am debating what it is advertising its perception to be - as that is relevant to the conversation 🤦‍♂️
> 
> if CB is full of old fucks, which i completely trust @Two Sheds and @bdon that they are - well, they are obviously trying to appeal to a younger audience by advertising to......what Chip? Complete the sentence...... THE KEY DEMO!
> 
> they are sure as shit not marketing on Dynamite for that sweet +50, because that is low. And not for the overall number, because that is way low compared to other programs. SO WHY THEN?
> 
> ..... say it with me..... the key demo / they want to attract a younger audience, like a lot of companies do - it is the goal of marketing, to attract new customers you want to attract
> 
> you know what, people normally pay me a lot of money for f’kn marketing lessons, i’m gonna have to start to charge on here.


I'm pretty sure you mentioned it previously, what's your background if you don't mind my asking.

I know you said you were in advertising, specifically TV right?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

10gizzle said:


> I'm pretty sure you mentioned it previously, what's your background if you don't mind my asking.
> 
> I know you said you were in advertising, specifically TV right?


don’t mind you asking, nope 

marketing in general, 17 yrs total

4 years in print And outdoor (billboards), then 6 years tv, and since then almost all google and facebook

but i keep in touch with the other methods, to see if its viable - as i am currently mostly marketing stock trading platforms like eTORO and Plus 500 (well, my team is)

but that works better online than on tv

i also ran an online ad network in the UK for about 6 yrs - so i’ve seen client side and service provider side


----------



## 10gizzle

LifeInCattleClass said:


> don’t mind you asking, nope
> 
> marketing in general, 17 yrs total
> 
> 4 years in print And outdoor (billboards), then 6 years tv, and since then almost all google and facebook
> 
> but i keep in touch with the other methods, to see if its viable - as i am currently mostly marketing stock trading platforms like eTORO and Plus 500 (well, my team is)
> 
> but that works better online than on tv
> 
> i also ran an online ad network in the UK for about 6 yrs - so i’ve seen client side and service provider side


That's awesome man. Cool background.

I think we could definitely use some actual factual information (not necessarily from you, but in general) just so we can all kind of move past certain recurring themes.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

10gizzle said:


> That's awesome man. Cool background.
> 
> I think we could definitely use some actual factual information (not necessarily from you, but in general) just so we can all kind of move past certain recurring themes.


well, TBH - the only thing i have an issue with on this thread is this idea that the wrestling market is ‘worth less’ somehow

it is a ludicrous notion with no basis for fact. And it is only being used to devalue the achievements of Dynamite

’ who cares if their demo is high, nobody is buying wrestling program ads ‘

that is 100% untrue. And not just untrue - it is easy to prove it is untrue. Yet, here we are - the same argument drops every now and again to undermine achievements

and i find it dishonest.

in fact, it is funny that i am basically saying ‘we as fans, we’re worth something’ / and that argument is saying ‘we’re worth less than any other fandom’

it does my head in.

any fandom is hot property. A fandom has patterns you can exploit and spending habits over and above ‘casuals. If you can ingrain yourself into the spending habits of the fandom, you‘re happy as larry - you have a captive clientele suddenly who feels they are expanding on their fandom by buying your product

but i digress..... we’ll get the same “points” which is really bait, next week


----------



## 10gizzle

LifeInCattleClass said:


> well, TBH - the only thing i have an issue with on this thread is this idea that the wrestling market is ‘worth less’ somehow
> 
> it is a ludicrous notion with no basis for fact. And it is only being used to devalue the achievements of Dynamite
> 
> ’ who cares if their demo is high, nobody is buying wrestling program ads ‘
> 
> that is 100% untrue. And not just untrue - it is easy to prove it is untrue. Yet, here we are - the same argument drops every now and again to undermine achievements
> 
> and i find it dishonest.
> 
> in fact, it is funny that i am basically saying ‘we as fans, we’re worth something’ / and that argument is saying ‘we’re worth less than any other fandom’
> 
> it does my head in.
> 
> any fandom is hot property. A fandom has patterns you can exploit and spending habits over and above ‘casuals. If you can ingrain yourself into the spending habits of the fandom, you‘re happy as larry.
> 
> but i digress..... we’ll get the same “points” which is really bait, next week


An wise person arguing with an idiot simply looks like two idiots arguing rom afar.

Always loved that quote, or however it goes.

Sometimes it's frustrating when knowledge gets so easily brushed aside but if people aren't willing to listen or, at the very least, consider some new information, then it's your fault for indulging them. That's a fools errand. 

The goal is to get to the point where we can all be willing to hear the other out.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

10gizzle said:


> An wise person arguing with an idiot simply looks like two idiots arguing rom afar.
> 
> Always loved that quote, or however it goes.
> 
> Sometimes it's frustrating when knowledge gets so easily brushed aside but if people aren't willing to listen or, at the very least, consider some new information, then it's your fault for indulging them. That's a fools errand.
> 
> The goal is to get to the point where we can all be willing to hear the other out.


lol, very good point

to be fair - i’m on holiday and i’m bored - so i took some people i normally have on ignore off 

you’ll see me ‘fighting the good fight’ a lot less next week when the real world calls again 

there’s enough fools to keep me busy at work


----------



## 10gizzle

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol, very good point
> 
> to be fair - i’m on holiday and i’m bored - so i took some people i normally have on ignore off
> 
> you’ll see me ‘fighting the good fight’ a lot less next week when the real world calls again


Hey man - I've been able to bring aa far more dysfunctional group of people together on a much greater scale in a professional setting, no less.

This place can get fixed up in no time if people just act together.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

10gizzle said:


> Hey man - I've been able to bring aa far more dysfunctional group of people together on a much greater scale in a professional setting, no less.
> 
> This place can get fixed up in no time if people just act together.


now i have to return the favour, as your demeanour belies your field 

counsellor of some sort? Conflict resolution? Maybe finance planning though

only if you want to answer


----------



## 10gizzle

LifeInCattleClass said:


> now i have to return the favour, as your demeanour belies your field
> 
> counsellor of some sort? Conflict resolution? Maybe finance planning though
> 
> only if you want to answer


Nah. I went to school for professional writing and linguistics. 

Didn't do much studying as I was working full time selling windows and doors, started my sales career.

Now I'm in the cloud infrastructure space.

I'm just big on communication and have seen first hand how it can change things in incredible ways. It's a core principle that I believe in. The way everyone communicates says a lot about them so I just pick up on little cues that speak volumes about them.


----------



## tower_

imthegame19 said:


> Q1: Bucks vs TH2: 934K, 531K demo
> Q2: Darby vid, Cody/Sting segment: 1,069m, 645K
> Q3: FTR vs Varsity Blondes, Page/Silver&Reynolds backstage skit: 1,022m, 593k
> Q4: Dustin vs 10, Shaq interview: 1,063m, 618K
> Q5: Inner Circle ultimatum, FTR interview, beginning of 6 men tag match: 1,010m, 593K
> Q6: Rest of 6 men tag match, Abadon vs Tesha, post match with Shida attacking Abadon: 926k, 547k
> Q7: Callis/Omega promo, preview of next weeks show: 963k, 581K
> Q8: OC vs MJF: 971K, 563k


Suck it Meltzer, 61 year old Sting is a bigger draw than any of the meme wrestlers you jack off to


----------



## tower_

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I think this shows they maaaaaybe didn’t advertise the main event enough?
> 
> could’ve held that 1m


Nah they put on a bad show and people tuned out once they saw how bad it was


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

10gizzle said:


> Nah. I went to school for professional writing and linguistics.
> 
> Didn't do much studying as I was working full time selling windows and doors, started my sales career.
> 
> Now I'm in the cloud infrastructure space.
> 
> I'm just big on communication and have seen first hand how it can change things in incredible ways. It's a core principle that I believe in. The way everyone communicates says a lot about them so I just pick up on little cues that speak volumes about them.


ahh, fair play mate

well, cloud infrastructure is a hot field, and all about connecting things anyway  - well done getting into that. On the flip side, people will always need doors and windows - so not like you left a shrinking field either 

so, are you tech side? Ops or sales? (if you don’t mind my prying)


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

tower_ said:


> Nah they put on a bad show and people tuned out once they saw how bad it was


ahh, ok - i was wondering what the reason was

thanks for the clarity


----------



## 10gizzle

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ahh, fair play mate
> 
> well, cloud infrastructure is a hot field, and all about connecting things anyway  - well done getting into that. On the flip side, people will always need doors and windows - so not like you left a shrinking field either
> 
> so, are you tech side? Ops or sales? (if you don’t mind my prying)


Haha I've been out of windows and doors for a decade. 

I'm on the sales/ops side. I'm helping build out the business. It is great how literally every business small and enterprise level is now a viable client. 

First time I've had the chance to work on a truly international level. Love it. We have DC's all over the world so I can literally work with anyone!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

10gizzle said:


> Haha I've been out of windows and doors for a decade.
> 
> I'm on the sales/ops side. I'm helping build out the business. It is great how literally every business small and enterprise level is now a viable client.
> 
> First time I've had the chance to work on a truly international level. Love it. We have DC's all over the world so I can literally work with anyone!


working international is the best / its when you really see how small your experiences and opinions are. Expanding on that is a goldmine.

and very true what you say, everybody from small 5 man companies and up need a cloud solution these days, so it must be exciting dealing with clients at different stages of their development

exciting stuff mate, well done


----------



## 10gizzle

LifeInCattleClass said:


> working international is the best / its when you really see how small your experiences and opinions are. Expanding on that is a goldmine.
> 
> and very true what you say, everybody from small 5 man companies and up need a cloud solution these days, so it must be exciting dealing with clients at different stages of their development
> 
> exciting stuff mate, well done


I'm still new to the industry but I fucking love it. I've never had an easier time connecting to people professionally in my life. 

I've been pestering AEWs VP to try and get a meeting lol. It's fun to fuck around and try and engage different companies I'm a fan of just to see what may happen.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

10gizzle said:


> I'm still new to the industry but I fucking love it. I've never had an easier time connecting to people professionally in my life.
> 
> I've been pestering AEWs VP to try and get a meeting lol. It's fun to fuck around and try and engage different companies I'm a fan of just to see what may happen.


lol, and why not - that is half the fun 

the thing is, with covid ‘work-from-home’ era you guys are going to be in more demand than ever. The infrastructure to make companies run on a global scale in that environment when half you staff is in India, the other half in Albania and HQ is in London - you cannot run that without a good cloud infrastructure

exciting times. Same boom period i am seeing in stock trading. Since covid hit, people have been spreading their money to a large amount of different avenues. We’re dealing with a lot of people doing bitcoin, ripple or even smaller cryptos

our business doubled in 2020 basically - its so weird - there’s always someone doing ok, when all else falls apart. Makes you think the world will be just fine


----------



## 10gizzle

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol, and why not - that is half the fun
> 
> the thing is, with covid ‘work-from-home’ era you guys are going to be in more demand than ever. The infrastructure to make companies run on a global scale in that environment when half you staff is in India, the other half in Albania and HQ is in London - you cannot run that without a good cloud infrastructure
> 
> exciting times. Same boom period i am seeing in stock trading. Since covid hit, people have been spreading their money to a large amount of different avenues. We’re dealing with a lot of people doing bitcoin, ripple or even smaller cryptos
> 
> our business doubled in 2020 basically - its so weird - there’s always someone doing ok, when all else falls apart. Makes you think the world will be just fine


You nailed it.

It helps when you can beat anybodies prices while offering high level performance too.

Chaos is a ladder. Lots of opportunity to be had in trying times.

If you or anyone you may know ever have a need, let me know would gladly show you our stuff!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

10gizzle said:


> You nailed it.
> 
> It helps when you can beat anybodies prices while offering high level performance too.
> 
> Chaos is a ladder. Lots of opportunity to be had in trying times.
> 
> If you or anyone you may know ever have a need, let me know would gladly show you our stuff!


lol, good lad 

will do


----------



## zaz102

zaz102 said:


> So as I mentioned before I am working on some trends, but here's a sample of some analysis I'm doing. If anybody has any ideas on what type of data analysis makes sense, I'm all ears.
> 
> Notes:
> 
> I used NXT as a reference point. I could care less if AEW beats NXT in ratings, but it's the closest product (including similar cable service and premiere date).
> I eyeballed the trendlines, but they're pretty accurate.
> I took out the first month (OCT) of the shows since there was the high initial pop before it came down to earth.
> 
> AEW
> 
> Pre-COVID (NOV 2019 – MAR 2020) Trend: 810K – 890K / 0.34 – 0.33
> Post-COVID (APR 2020 – DEC 2020) Trend: 700K – 900K / 0.27 – 0.25
> NXT
> 
> Pre-COVID (NOV 2019 – MAR 2020) Trend: 810K – 690K / 0.25 – 0.38
> Post-COVID (APR 2020 – DEC 2020) Trend: 690K – 700K / 0.17 – 0.16
> 
> My takeaways:
> 
> * Pre-COVID: AEW was growing it's audience while demo was static. NXT audience shrank while demo grew.
> 
> * COVID: Huge impact on AEW ratings and demo and almost no impact on NXT rating, but hurt their demo.
> 
> * Post-COVID: AEW recovered and is growing its audience to where it was before COVID and demo is better than before. NXT has remained almost completely static.
> 
> * My analysis is that AEW is on the right path. Again, I'm not in marketing or a statistician, but I'm trying to use logic as to what make sense to analyze. And again I'm all ears if anyone has any input on what to look at.


Here are the trends I created using monthly averages. If you look at the overall viewership, AEW and NXT had similar trends, but had vastly different paths. AEW had a super strong initial viewership, then sharp decline, began to recover, sharp decline due to COVID, and then recovered. NXT started less hot and has slowly declined into a pretty steady state.

*Viewership*

Dynamite vs NXT Viewership
Dynamite-vs-NXT-Viewership

Dynamite vs NXT Viewership Pre-COVID
Dynamite-vs-NXT-Viewership-Pre-COVID

Dynamite vs NXT Viewership Post-COVID
Dynamite-vs-NXT-Viewership-Post-COVID

Dynamite vs NXT Viewership YoY
Dynamite-vs-NXT-Viewership-YoY

*Demo*

Dynamite vs NXT Demo
Dynamite-vs-NXT-Demo

Dynamite vs NXT Demo Pre-COVID
Dynamite-vs-NXT-Demo-Pre-COVID

Dynamite vs NXT Demo Post-COVID
Dynamite-vs-NXT-Demo-Post-COVID

Dynamite vs NXT Demo YoY
Dynamite-vs-NXT-Demo-YoY

I also did a Year-to-Year comparison. In my opinion, this is pretty useless and will probably not be super helpful until another year and a half. This is due to two factors, the initial premiere pop needs should probably be ignored. Second is that COVID had a huge impact on Dynamite, so it its hard to compare since there hasn't really been a period of steady state for Dynamite.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

zaz102 said:


> Here are the trends I created using monthly averages. If you look at the overall viewership, AEW and NXT had similar trends, but had vastly different paths. AEW had a super strong initial viewership, then sharp decline, began to recover, sharp decline due to COVID, and then recovered. NXT started less hot and has slowly declined into a pretty steady state.
> 
> *Viewership*
> 
> Dynamite vs NXT Viewership
> Dynamite-vs-NXT-Viewership
> 
> Dynamite vs NXT Viewership Pre-COVID
> Dynamite-vs-NXT-Viewership-Pre-COVID
> 
> Dynamite vs NXT Viewership Post-COVID
> Dynamite-vs-NXT-Viewership-Post-COVID
> 
> Dynamite vs NXT Viewership YoY
> Dynamite-vs-NXT-Viewership-YoY
> 
> *Demo*
> 
> Dynamite vs NXT Demo
> Dynamite-vs-NXT-Demo
> 
> Dynamite vs NXT Demo Pre-COVID
> Dynamite-vs-NXT-Demo-Pre-COVID
> 
> Dynamite vs NXT Demo Post-COVID
> Dynamite-vs-NXT-Demo-Post-COVID
> 
> Dynamite vs NXT Demo YoY
> Dynamite-vs-NXT-Demo-YoY
> 
> I also did a Year-to-Year comparison. In my opinion, this is pretty useless and will probably not be super helpful until another year and a half. This is due to two factors, the initial premiere pop needs should probably be ignored. Second is that COVID had a huge impact on Dynamite, so it its hard to compare since there hasn't really been a period of steady state for Dynamite.


hey mate - quick question - Dynamite - how can pre and post covid both have upward trends, but the combined a downward average? (on the linear average)

or was the drop-off at some point massive and it drags it down?

great graphs by the way

edit> that YOY really shows how Dynamite recovered - nicely done


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> hey mate - quick question - Dynamite - how can pre and post covid both have upward trends, but the combined a downward average? (on the linear average)
> 
> or was the drop-off at some point massive and it drags it down?
> 
> great graphs by the way
> 
> edit> that YOY really shows how Dynamite recovered - nicely done


Because their ratings floor is not raising, nor is their ceiling...?


----------



## zaz102

LifeInCattleClass said:


> hey mate - quick question - Dynamite - how can pre and post covid both have upward trends, but the combined a downward average? (on the linear average)
> 
> or was the drop-off at some point massive and it drags it down?
> 
> great graphs by the way
> 
> edit> that YOY really shows how Dynamite recovered - nicely done


Sorry it wasn't explicit, but there was a huge drop off from March to April (first COVID episode was in March. 

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

zaz102 said:


> Sorry it wasn't explicit, but there was a huge drop off from March to April (first COVID episode was in March.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


ah, ok - that explains it

thx


----------



## DammitChrist

tower_ said:


> Suck it Meltzer, 61 year old Sting is a bigger draw than any of the meme wrestlers you jack off to


You couldn’t have just praised Sting for being a big, legendary name for AEW instead of bringing up the anti-workrate nonsense?


----------



## Kentucky34

AEW blew their load and still couldn't get their weekly viewership over 1 million. 

Once the Sting novelty wear off they will be back to drawing 700k viewers per week and losing to NXT.


----------



## rbl85

Kentucky34 said:


> AEW blew their load and still couldn't get their weekly viewership over 1 million.
> 
> Once the Sting novelty wear off they will be back to drawing 700k viewers per week and losing to NXT.


This post smell "hater" from very far.


----------



## DammitChrist

rbl85 said:


> This post smell "hater" from very far.


Not only that (about the tired gimmick), but that post isn't even accurate either.

This week's Dynamite episode managed to get their ratings over 1 million viewers for pretty much half of the show.

How else could they really average out 995 K viewers at all then?


----------



## zaz102

DammitChrist said:


> Not only that (about the tired gimmick), but that post isn't even accurate either.
> 
> This week's Dynamite episode managed to get their ratings over 1 million viewers for pretty much half of the show.
> 
> How else could they really average out 995 K viewers at all then? [emoji38]


I recommend looking at the trends i posted a few posts back as well. Its a good indicator thats pretty unlikely for the foreseeable future.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## The Wood

zaz102 said:


> All I'm pointing out i think someone acted like it was a fact that wrestling audience is worth very little. And key demo doesn't matter, only total numbers matter.
> 
> I'm learning about this stuff, but there is no evidence how much a wrestling audience is worth less to an advertiser except for the reported deals cut (SD $1B, NXT $50M per year, AEW $175M).
> 
> Why are the wrestling companies getting big deals if their audience can't spend money? Why does the demo not matter for wrestling when it matters for all other TV shows?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


The evidence is out there. It’s common knowledge at this point. I’m sorry, but I’m not going to go back through decades of news to go and find specific pieces written about it right now, but it’s not some baseless claim. This is just assumed knowledge at this point.

Loosely, I will point to TV rights, shows being dropped, sponsors bailing during even hot periods and there not being more wrestling on prominent television. Lots has been said and written on it — I just don’t have the time right now to go back and dig it all up for you.

TV rights for wrestling is relatively really low. $265 million might sound like a lot of money, until you factor in that you are getting 2 million or so people for 52 weeks a year and don’t have to pay for 3 hour-long dramas or 6 sitcoms to fill it. Then program off-season on top of that.



DaSlacker said:


> They already did the first ever Omega/Moxley match on PPV and have saved the rubber match for 2021. The second one having a screwy ending.
> 
> There's only been 8 special episodes this year + 4 PPVs. What's the difference between that and the old 5 editions of Saturday Night Main Event or Clash of Champions + 4 or 5 PPVs?


It’s not an insane point you’re making or anything, but I’d argue there is a difference just in terms of how television penetrates now versus then. Way more beneficial to do something big on NBC when you were going to get 20 million people watching than doing it now with 1 million, max. It’s just different in terms of scope

[QUOTE="10gizzle, post: 78480111, member: 738818"
As a consumer, should I really be mad that I get matches every now and then that I'd usually have to pay money for?
[/QUOTE]

Sorry to not go through your whole post. I’m kind of strapped for time. But just on this point: No, I don’t think you should be upset as a consumer, but as a consumer are you going to be more likely to pay for said content when you get so much for free? And are you going to be as easily impressed by future content?


----------



## zaz102

The Wood said:


> The evidence is out there. It’s common knowledge at this point. I’m sorry, but I’m not going to go back through decades of news to go and find specific pieces written about it right now, but it’s not some baseless claim. This is just assumed knowledge at this point.
> 
> Loosely, I will point to TV rights, shows being dropped, sponsors bailing during even hot periods and there not being more wrestling on prominent television. Lots has been said and written on it — I just don’t have the time right now to go back and dig it all up for you.
> 
> TV rights for wrestling is relatively really low. $265 million might sound like a lot of money, until you factor in that you are getting 2 million or so people for 52 weeks a year and don’t have to pay for 3 hour-long dramas or 6 sitcoms to fill it. Then program off-season on top of that.
> 
> 
> 
> It’s not an insane point you’re making or anything, but I’d argue there is a difference just in terms of how television penetrates now versus then. Way more beneficial to do something big on NBC when you were going to get 20 million people watching than doing it now with 1 million, max. It’s just different in terms of scope
> 
> [QUOTE="10gizzle, post: 78480111, member: 738818"
> As a consumer, should I really be mad that I get matches every now and then that I'd usually have to pay money for?


Sorry to not go through your whole post. I’m kind of strapped for time. But just on this point: No, I don’t think you should be upset as a consumer, but as a consumer are you going to be more likely to pay for said content when you get so much for free? And are you going to be as easily impressed by future content?[/QUOTE]Fair enough, I'm just trying to understand. As you said, you seen the proof, I just haven't yet. I certainly am interested in reading stuff people have.

Also, let's say its less, my question is how much less. For example, here's an example. I know it's not accurate, but just as a basis for what I'm trying to figure out.

Per the Friends/Murder She Wrote info:

Regular Demo = $1
Key Demo = $3

Wrestling Regular Demo = $? (Let's say $0.75)
Wrestling Key Demo = $? (Let's say $2.25)

I know it doesn't work like that, but I'm just trying to get an idea. And besides opinions, I haven't really seen any numbers.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## patpat

Minute to minute ratings came out and the Kenny omega segment did in fact 1million+ viewers but the rest of the quarter dragged it down. Good news for aew I guess 
He came after a shit ton of commercial and matches that lost 80k viewers


----------



## Peerless




----------



## Erik.

*Key notes from Wrestlenomic's stream with AEW Vice President Chris Harrington about AEW Dynamite's past week ratings*









The high point of AEW Dynamite was the end of the Sting segment with 1.201 mil viewers followed by the Shaq segment with 1.177 mil viewers from a minute standpoint.
NXT had bad timing and went into a commercial break right as the Sting segment started.
AEW & NXT often go to commercial breaks at the same time.
AEW & NXT share around the same total time for commercial breaks including picture in picture (~30 mins).
AEW does way more picture in picture than NXT.
AEW full commercial breaks: 16 mins, AEW PiP: 14 mins
NXT full commercial breaks: 28 mins, AEW PiP: 4 mins
Sometimes both shows go to commercials at the same time and you see far less drop in viewership in such cases.
AEW has control over when they go to commercial breaks, but it's also a collaborative effort together with TNT and the advertisers and make changes, if necessary.
AEW Dynamite would've done an average of 1.029 mil viewers without commercial breaks (18-49: 601k)
The Inner Circle promo held very steady and even grew viewers, which is not normal for a long talking segment. *Timothy Thatcher has not been put into a lot of drawing segments. He has been getting the short end of the stick according to Chris Harrington, because he insinuated that he's also been put up against the stronger segments of AEW Dynamite, which was The Inner Circle promo segment this week.
There is not a single metric that can determine, if someone is a draw or not.
The best way to track, if someone is a draw is to see how they do in their individual segment without commercial breaks, week to week trends, etc.
The Abadon match & Shida angle maintained over 1 mil viewers the whole time.
NXT had a 1 min overrun where 30.000 viewers overall and about 7.000 in 18-49 switched over.
Random notes:

Sting is resonating with the younger viewers (18-49), since this demo constantly rose for his talking segment.
Sting created a buzz last week where people around the globe, business partners, etc. contacted people in AEW.
AEW was surprised that this weeks ratings were better than last week's, but especially with how consistent the audience stuck with the show.
The tail is often times larger than the dinosaur meaning that AEW does a great show with so-so ratings, but the next week ratings reflect what they did the week prior.
AEW DVR viewership is close to 30% of total viewership of a week's show, which is the highest of all wrestling shows on TV, because of the competition head to head.
This means AEW has an opportunity to lure these people into watching live, if they create urgency to make people watch the show live meaning they can greatly increase their viewership.
Chris Harrington mentioned that NXT does really well with their women's division when it comes to viewership, especially Io Shirai.
Chris Harrington tells a story about a young girl, whose mother works at Daily's Place, that became an AEW fan because of Sammy Guevara's vLogs on Youtube.
Jon Moxley does great on YouTube when it comes to numbers.
The most viewed YouTube clip of AEW, where Cody wrestles a little kid dressed as Orange Cassidy, still generates the most new views of any video on their YouTube channel on some weeks.
AEW is very proud that their homegrown stars in MJF & Orange Cassidy did so well in the main event on the same show Sting and Shaq showed up.
Quarter hours can be misleading, because almost no segment on a show goes a full 15 minutes because of commercial breaks, PiP's, competition, etc.
Taped shows do almost the same as live shows and sometimes even better viewership-wise.


----------



## michel faundes

ingles in no me first lenguaje so sorry 

I am watching dinamite in chile in space in cable tv is this week episode this is nothing spesial wwe 

it is transmitted for year here but this is the first time a tnt wreling show is.

again I apologize for the broken ingles


----------



## famicommander

Between Facebook and Youtube Triplemania has already had nearly 2 million views and that doesn't include TV viewers on Canal Space or TV Azteca.


----------



## Prosper

10gizzle said:


> You nailed it.
> 
> It helps when you can beat anybodies prices while offering high level performance too.
> 
> *Chaos is a ladder. *Lots of opportunity to be had in trying times.
> 
> If you or anyone you may know ever have a need, let me know would gladly show you our stuff!


I love that line. Chaos is most certainly a ladder. A lot of people came out of the Great Depression for example more successful than they were before it happened. 

The chaos of COVID turned out to be a major blessing in disguise for me, which I am very grateful for given that others have not lucked out as much.


----------



## Klitschko

prosperwithdeen said:


> I love that line. Chaos is most certainly a ladder. A lot of people came out of the Great Depression for example more successful than they were before it happened.
> 
> The chaos of COVID turned out to be a major blessing in disguise for me, which I am very grateful for given that others have not lucked out as much.


Same here with the whole covid stuff. Ended up working from home starting march, and my daughter was born in January so the whole experience with seeing her grow up in front of me has truly been a blessing to me.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> *Key notes from Wrestlenomic's stream with AEW Vice President Chris Harrington about AEW Dynamite's past week ratings*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The high point of AEW Dynamite was the end of the Sting segment with 1.201 mil viewers followed by the Shaq segment with 1.177 mil viewers from a minute standpoint.
> NXT had bad timing and went into a commercial break right as the Sting segment started.
> AEW & NXT often go to commercial breaks at the same time.
> AEW & NXT share around the same total time for commercial breaks including picture in picture (~30 mins).
> AEW does way more picture in picture than NXT.
> AEW full commercial breaks: 16 mins, AEW PiP: 14 mins
> NXT full commercial breaks: 28 mins, AEW PiP: 4 mins
> Sometimes both shows go to commercials at the same time and you see far less drop in viewership in such cases.
> AEW has control over when they go to commercial breaks, but it's also a collaborative effort together with TNT and the advertisers and make changes, if necessary.
> AEW Dynamite would've done an average of 1.029 mil viewers without commercial breaks (18-49: 601k)
> The Inner Circle promo held very steady and even grew viewers, which is not normal for a long talking segment. *Timothy Thatcher has not been put into a lot of drawing segments. He has been getting the short end of the stick according to Chris Harrington, because he insinuated that he's also been put up against the stronger segments of AEW Dynamite, which was The Inner Circle promo segment this week.
> There is not a single metric that can determine, if someone is a draw or not.
> The best way to track, if someone is a draw is to see how they do in their individual segment without commercial breaks, week to week trends, etc.
> The Abadon match & Shida angle maintained over 1 mil viewers the whole time.
> NXT had a 1 min overrun where 30.000 viewers overall and about 7.000 in 18-49 switched over.
> Random notes:
> 
> Sting is resonating with the younger viewers (18-49), since this demo constantly rose for his talking segment.
> Sting created a buzz last week where people around the globe, business partners, etc. contacted people in AEW.
> AEW was surprised that this weeks ratings were better than last week's, but especially with how consistent the audience stuck with the show.
> The tail is often times larger than the dinosaur meaning that AEW does a great show with so-so ratings, but the next week ratings reflect what they did the week prior.
> AEW DVR viewership is close to 30% of total viewership of a week's show, which is the highest of all wrestling shows on TV, because of the competition head to head.
> This means AEW has an opportunity to lure these people into watching live, if they create urgency to make people watch the show live meaning they can greatly increase their viewership.
> Chris Harrington mentioned that NXT does really well with their women's division when it comes to viewership, especially Io Shirai.
> Chris Harrington tells a story about a young girl, whose mother works at Daily's Place, that became an AEW fan because of Sammy Guevara's vLogs on Youtube.
> Jon Moxley does great on YouTube when it comes to numbers.
> The most viewed YouTube clip of AEW, where Cody wrestles a little kid dressed as Orange Cassidy, still generates the most new views of any video on their YouTube channel on some weeks.
> AEW is very proud that their homegrown stars in MJF & Orange Cassidy did so well in the main event on the same show Sting and Shaq showed up.
> Quarter hours can be misleading, because almost no segment on a show goes a full 15 minutes because of commercial breaks, PiP's, competition, etc.
> Taped shows do almost the same as live shows and sometimes even better viewership-wise.


this is gold, thanks Erik


----------



## Prosper

Klitschko said:


> Same here with the whole covid stuff. Ended up working from home starting march, and my daughter was born in January so the whole experience with seeing her grow up in front of me has truly been a blessing to me.


Congrats on your newborn my guy! Yeah I have been working at home too since February, and now I'm in a place where I will be actually making triple what I was making before as a digital marketer. No way I would have been in this position before with my commute and the requirements that came with being in an actual office/work location.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Klitschko said:


> Same here with the whole covid stuff. Ended up working from home starting march, and my daughter was born in January so the whole experience with seeing her grow up in front of me has truly been a blessing to me.


mate, congrats on the birth of your daughter!

👨‍👧❤


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

prosperwithdeen said:


> Congrats on your newborn my guy! Yeah I have been working at home too since February, and now I'm in a place where I will be actually making triple what I was making before as a digital marketer. No way I would have been in this position before with my commute and the requirements that came with being in an actual office/work location.


@10gizzle - FYI, Prosper here is also a legit marketer and has a wealth of knowledge on facts and figures

dude’s been around the block - easy to pick up from his quality posts on here

just FYI


----------



## One Shed

Erik. said:


> AEW was surprised that this weeks ratings were better than last week's, but especially with how consistent the audience stuck with the show.
> The tail is often times larger than the dinosaur meaning that AEW does a great show with so-so ratings, but the next week ratings reflect what they did the week prior.


They cannot really be surprised the show after they had Sting debut unannounced would get a higher rating. They even say exactly what I and many others say all the time in the second point I quote here. A great show equals an increase in ratings the week after. So they should not be surprised when this coming week's is down again.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Two Sheds said:


> They cannot really be surprised the show after they had Sting debut unannounced would get a higher rating. They even say exactly what I and many others say all the time in the second point I quote here. A great show equals an increase in ratings the week after. So they should not be surprised when this coming week's is down again.


coming week’ll be fine - above 900, above 0.4

this weeks show was good enough, if not spectacular


----------



## Klitschko

prosperwithdeen said:


> Congrats on your newborn my guy! Yeah I have been working at home too since February, and now I'm in a place where I will be actually making triple what I was making before as a digital marketer. No way I would have been in this position before with my commute and the requirements that came with being in an actual office/work location.





LifeInCattleClass said:


> mate, congrats on the birth of your daughter!
> 
> 👨‍👧❤



Thank you to both of you guys. I really mean it. 

@prosperwithdeen thats crazy man, congrats to you. And its same here. Some of us are really lucky with how it turned out. In my job I deal with lawyers and people filing bankruptcies a lot and we get so many people being impacted by covid. Its crazy how hard this thing has impacted some people and how it turned out like you mentioned to be a blessing in disguise for others.


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> coming week’ll be fine - above 900, above 0.4
> 
> this weeks show was good enough, if not spectacular


I did not say the rating would plummet, only that it would be down again. I thought other than the Kenny segment the show was piss poor this past week and I think the rating will suffer for it. Plus what they have announced is not exactly even decent on paper this week. But their worst sounding shows on paper sometimes turn out to be very good, so we will see.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> coming week’ll be fine - above 900, above 0.4
> 
> this weeks show was good enough, if not spectacular


Quoting for when show goes under 900k and CattleClass tries to say it's fine and he expected it.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Quoting for when show goes under 900k and CattleClass tries to say it's fine and he expected it.


Because we both know he will...


----------



## zaz102

bdon said:


> Because we both know he will...


Yeah, if you look at the trends it seems unlikely that they will do over 900k especially after a less exciting show. It would be very impressive if they went over 900k.

That being said, they can hold a 900k average for the month which is definitely possible, they would be continuing the steady growth post-COVID.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## DammitChrist

Chip Chipperson said:


> Quoting for when show goes under 900k and CattleClass tries to say it's fine and he expected it.


AEW is gradually growing out their audience. They’ll be just fine no matter what happens next week


----------



## Pippen94

big shows last two weeks - we all knew ratings would be up. This week's show isn't as big. 
Of course if life's predictions are correct it knocks out a lot of theories floating around


----------



## bdon

Last show sucked, so it stands to reason that this week’s rating will take a dive, @Pippen94 . The fucking Vice President even said as much.


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> Last show sucked, so it stands to reason that this week’s rating will take a dive, @Pippen94 . The fucking Vice President even said as much.


Which one was that??


----------



## NathanMayberry

AEW is doing massive viewership numbers when actual stars appear and not clowns like Orange Cassidy and Marko Stunt or losers like Darby Allin?



I am shocked! This totally hasn't been what has been suggested for months...


----------



## Pippen94

NathanMayberry said:


> AEW is doing massive viewership numbers when actual stars appear and not clowns like Orange Cassidy and Marko Stunt or losers like Darby Allin?
> 
> 
> 
> I am shocked! This totally hasn't been what has been suggested for months...


Orange Cassidy is involved in more minute to minute million viewer segments than anybody else


----------



## NathanMayberry

Pippen94 said:


> Orange Cassidy is involved in more minute to minute million viewer segments than anybody else


Sure he has


----------



## DammitChrist

It's funny how Dynamite managed to still get a pretty good rating with Orange Cassidy in the main-event even though folks were told that he'd 'lure away' the audience with his shtick.

Cassidy should continue to be a prominent part of the show going forward, especially with the crowds gradually getting bigger as time goes on.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> It's funny how Dynamite managed to still get a pretty good rating with Orange Cassidy in the main-event even though folks were told that he'd 'lure away' the audience with his shtick.
> 
> Cassidy should continue to be a prominent part of the show going forward, especially with the crowds gradually getting bigger as time goes on.


He got the third lowest of the night in the demo (or as Meltzer would say, the third least bad). The Bucks and their spotfest got the worst rated segment of the night (which is rare for Q1, but it was the Bucks) and managed to score higher than Q6 which I believe was mostly commercials.

I have done the analysis of his quarters all summer a few times on here. They are mediocre to bad. The only time during his Jericho feud his segment scored #1 was when Bischoff was on TNT for the first time in 20 years and it was leaked a week beforehand.

Even the hardcores are tiring of him. For a person who values workrate as much as you do, it surprises me you like him since he is below average in the ring.


----------



## DammitChrist

Two Sheds said:


> He got the third lowest of the night in the demo (or as Meltzer would say, the third least bad). The Bucks and their spotfest got the worst rated segment of the night (which is rare for Q1, but it was the Bucks) and managed to score higher than Q6 which I believe was mostly commercials.
> 
> I have done the analysis of his quarters all summer a few times on here. They are mediocre to bad. The only time during his Jericho feud his segment scored #1 was when Bischoff was on TNT for the first time in 20 years and it was leaked a week beforehand.
> 
> Even the hardcores are tiring of him. *For a person who values workrate as much as you do, it surprises me you like him since he is below average in the ring.*


What? 

I strongly consider Cassidy to be pretty good in the ring :lol

Hell, that match against MJF this past Wednesday was a really good main-event, and it's not surprising at all since it had Orange Cassidy in it. His workrate is pretty much on point.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> What?
> 
> I strongly consider Cassidy to be pretty good in the ring :lol
> 
> Hell, that match against MJF this past Wednesday was a really good main-event, and it's not surprising at all since it had Orange Cassidy in it. His workrate is pretty much on point.


We must be watching two different products, which is fine. I perfectly understand I am going to like people others do not and vice versa, ratings be damned. For me he does not know even the basics on how to work and has even bragged to the point in interviews of being hired to give a middle finger to wrestling so I feel I am not off base.

I just find it funny that people who want this goof to be pushed try to bring in demo ratings when more often than not, his segment is middle to bad for the show as was the case this week. I do not really care about the quarter rating for people I like. I am going to like who I like and vice versa despite a rating. But using ratings as a defense which are easily shown to be incorrect is weird to me. We have the quarter hours that are publicly released that we all see vs the "minute by minute ratings" that are not publicly released but "reported on" without any verification and t-shirt numbers which are also not publicly released. Again, I have been a huge fan of people who probably sold 10 t-shirts but hated guys who sold a million times more than OC like Ultimate Warrior. I do not care about those numbers. But pointing to them as a defense when the public numbers are easily shot down is weird to me.

I would have infinite more respect for OC fans who said they just liked him and did not point to numbers than can be spun, especially ones we will never see a public record of.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> It's funny how Dynamite managed to still get a pretty good rating with Orange Cassidy in the main-event even though folks were told that he'd 'lure away' the audience with his shtick.
> 
> Cassidy should continue to be a prominent part of the show going forward, especially with the crowds gradually getting bigger as time goes on.


Show has <1 million viewers. That’s not impressive for wrestling with basic cable accessibility. 



DammitChrist said:


> What?
> 
> I strongly consider Cassidy to be pretty good in the ring :lol
> 
> Hell, that match against MJF this past Wednesday was a really good main-event, and it's not surprising at all since it had Orange Cassidy in it. His workrate is pretty much on point.


He telegraphs spots and his shit looks soft as hell. There’s so much daylight in everything he does, plus you can see him cooperating like anything. Go back and watch the Jericho brawl. There’s a spot where Jericho goes to suplex Cassidy. I can’t remember at all whether Jericho hit the move or not, but I definitely remember Cassidy blatantly getting into position for it.

That’s part of working. Cassidy sucks at it. It wouldn’t surprise me if he had no formal training at all.


----------



## Pippen94

DammitChrist said:


> It's funny how Dynamite managed to still get a pretty good rating with Orange Cassidy in the main-event even though folks were told that he'd 'lure away' the audience with his shtick.
> 
> Cassidy should continue to be a prominent part of the show going forward, especially with the crowds gradually getting bigger as time goes on.


Match was over million mostly if you saw graph Chris Harrington used on wrestlenomics video


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Match was over million mostly if you saw graph Chris Harrington used on wrestlenomics video


Not from actual publicly released (also known as verifiable) numbers. The main event managed to beat the Q6 commercial filled segment (if I remember right) and the Bucks' spotfest in Q1.

Bottom line: Sting and Kenny were the stars here.


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> Not from actual publicly released (also known as verifiable) numbers. The main event managed to beat the Q6 commercial filled segment (if I remember right) and the Bucks' spotfest in Q1.
> 
> Bottom line: Sting and Kenny were the stars here.


He had minute by minute up for every segment which showed match over million for most part & peaking towards the end. Wouldn't go on record & say which stars do best - reckons too many factors at play but said Orange Cassidy was a success


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> He had minute by minute up for every segment which showed match over million for most part & peaking towards the end. Wouldn't go on record & say which stars do best - reckons too many factors at play but said Orange Cassidy was a success


Oh yeah? Show me the public release and third party verification of said data.


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> Oh yeah? Show me the public release and third party verification of said data.





Two Sheds said:


> Oh yeah? Show me the public release and third party verification of said data.


What??
Just go watch video


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> What??
> Just go watch video


Wait? You mean someone released a video saying things? I was not aware.

Sarcasm over. Show me the data. We both know the minute by minute ratings are not something that have ever been publicly released. I have based all my breakdowns on here on things that have been officially released and verified. I expect the same from others.


----------



## DammitChrist

Two Sheds said:


> We must be watching two different products, which is fine. I perfectly understand I am going to like people others do not and vice versa, ratings be damned. For me he does not know even the basics on how to work and has even bragged to the point in interviews of being hired to give a middle finger to wrestling so I feel I am not off base.
> 
> I just find it funny that people who want this goof to be pushed try to bring in demo ratings when more often than not, his segment is middle to bad for the show as was the case this week. I do not really care about the quarter rating for people I like. I am going to like who I like and vice versa despite a rating. But using ratings as a defense which are easily shown to be incorrect is weird to me. We have the quarter hours that are publicly released that we all see vs the "minute by minute ratings" that are not publicly released but "reported on" without any verification and t-shirt numbers which are also not publicly released. Again, I have been a huge fan of people who probably sold 10 t-shirts but hated guys who sold a million times more than OC like Ultimate Warrior. I do not care about those numbers. But pointing to them as a defense when the public numbers are easily shot down is weird to me.
> 
> I would have infinite more respect *for OC fans who said they just liked him and did not point to numbers* than can be spun, especially ones we will never see a public record of.


You're kidding me, right? :lol

I like Cassidy with OR without those good numbers. 

Hell, I even loved his entertaining shtick MONTHS before Dynamite even existed on TNT; so clearly I'm not 'hopping on his train' just because he happens to hold up really with the viewers.

His naysayers just happen to be (hilariously) wrong about Cassidy being prominently featured or being pushed "killing" the ratings for AEW


----------



## NathanMayberry

Pippen94 said:


> What??
> Just go watch video


You tell him Pippen! 


How dare you not believe the buddy of the Vice President of AEW?! The guy who has a blog that doesn't have a single piece of content that could portray AEW in a negative light, even when AEW does this things he criticized WWE for. He's as legit a source as David Starr is a feminist.


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> Wait? You mean someone released a video saying things? I was not aware.
> 
> Sarcasm over. Show me the data. We both know the minute by minute ratings are not something that have ever been publicly released. I have based all my breakdowns on here on things that have been officially released and verified. I expect the same from others.


Harrington is employee of aew & was guest of wrestlenomics to show how he reviews ratings for them - that's what they pay him to. I think his data is OK - ha


----------



## The Wood

Isn’t he literally on the AEW payroll?


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> You're kidding me, right? :lol
> 
> I like Cassidy with OR without those good numbers.
> 
> Hell, I even loved his entertaining shtick MONTHS before Dynamite even existed on TNT; so clearly I'm not 'hopping on his train' just because he happens to hold up really with the viewers.
> 
> His naysayers just happen to be (hilariously) wrong about Cassidy being prominently featured or being pushed "killing" the ratings for AEW


Like I said, it is cool for you to like him despite numbers. But when you use numbers to try to justify him, you fall short. I pointed out why for this week specifically and for the entire summer program with Jericho several times on here. Please just stop pretending it is about the numbers and is more just your like for the guy. At least that would be believable.

I have never accused you of bandwagon hopping with OC.

And the ratings speak for themselves, OC is not a boon. But even if his segments gained a million more viewers than every other one, that alone would not make me like him. Should I like Twilight movies because they sold tickets?

I simply think his long term prospects are poor for the company and more and more hardcores on here are telling me they see through him now, vs liking him more. We both talk to a lot of people on here, so we both likely have many examples.


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Harrington is employee of aew & was guest of wrestlenomics to show how he reviews ratings for them - that's what they pay him to. I think his data is OK - ha


Oh wow, this is the guy? How many people did he survey? I am going to need a number in the tens of thousands. Please link me to the published data for us both to review.


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> Oh wow, this is the guy? How many people did he survey? I am going to need a number in the tens of thousands. Please link me to the published data for us both to review.


How bout just listen to him - he reviews ratings for living.


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> How bout just listen to him - he reviews ratings for living.


Why is this such a hard concept to get across? I have ZERO interest in hearing people talk. I want to see the actual data. I could counter you to just "listen to Cornette" but you could easily see why that would be a silly argument. Please understand yours is the same.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I feel like when people say "Orange Cassidy is a good worker" they don't really know what working is.

Working is a mixture of everything in the ring, it includes how crisp your moves are, how great your psychology is, how into the matches the crowd is, safety, basics etc etc

Orange Cassidy offers very little in any of these departments yet a self proclaimed "workrate mark" is saying he's great.


----------



## DammitChrist

Chip Chipperson said:


> I feel like when people say "Orange Cassidy is a good worker" they don't really know what working is.
> 
> *Working is a mixture of everything in the ring, it includes how crisp your moves are, how great your psychology is, how into the matches the crowd is, safety, basics etc etc*
> 
> Orange Cassidy offers very little in any of these departments yet a self proclaimed "workrate mark" is saying he's great.


Most of these characteristics accurately describes Cassidy though, ESPECIALLY the part where he's able to keep various crowds engaged into his wrestling matches; but yet I'm supposed to be convinced by you that he's "bad" in the ring?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Quoting for when show goes under 900k and CattleClass tries to say it's fine and he expected it.


i’ve never gone against my predictions

just quote the other post too where me and Prosper discussed one episode airing after 10PM and me adjusting the prediction for that day

just to keep it honest


----------



## The Wood

Chip Chipperson said:


> I feel like when people say "Orange Cassidy is a good worker" they don't really know what working is.
> 
> Working is a mixture of everything in the ring, it includes how crisp your moves are, how great your psychology is, how into the matches the crowd is, safety, basics etc etc
> 
> Orange Cassidy offers very little in any of these departments yet a self proclaimed "workrate mark" is saying he's great.


Thank you for posting this. I hope some people take it in.



DammitChrist said:


> Most of these characteristics accurately describes Cassidy though, ESPECIALLY the part where he's able to keep various crowds engaged into his wrestling matches; but yet I'm supposed to be convinced by you that he's "bad" in the ring?


His gimmick is pissing on psychology. His execution isn’t crisp. You can see him actively taking steps to get himself into position for things. His facial expressions are poor. His striking is weak. His dives look soft.

Performances people can see through drives viewers away. They immediately go “Looks fake” and switch it off. I’ve seen it happen.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Thank you for posting this. I hope some people take it in.
> 
> 
> 
> His gimmick is pissing on psychology. His execution isn’t crisp. You can see him actively taking steps to get himself into position for things. His facial expressions are poor. His striking is weak. His dives look soft.
> 
> Performances people can see through drives viewers away. They immediately go “Looks fake” and switch it off. I’ve seen it happen.


Slightly changing gears for a second...

Cody rHHHodes is god awful for telegraphing moves. I asked this once before, maybe you didn’t see it, but do you not find Cody’s stuff “fake” as well? Forget the story-telling for a second: does the physical action not take you out of the moment..? He constantly looks like he is thinking about the next sequence of events vs just “feeling” them and “working” with his opponent to make great music.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> Most of these characteristics accurately describes Cassidy though, ESPECIALLY the part where he's able to keep various crowds engaged into his wrestling matches; but yet I'm supposed to be convinced by you that he's "bad" in the ring?


Even if you want to argue that he keeps the AEW audience engaged, he's not strong in the ring or crisp. Everything Wood says above is 100% right.

Watch this from the biggest match of his career in a TV main event:






0:03 - Botches a dragon screw legwhip

0:08 - Poor psychology as they attempt the exact same move again which Cassidy once again botches.

0:16 - Awkward movement and seemingly sells a lifted leg.

0:23 - Very weak kick in the corner.

1:18 - Botches a third dragon screw legwhip

4:32 - Very very weak looking forearms

4:36 - Doesn't get Jericho in the right position to set up next spot leading to a very fake looking spot.

4:42 - Forgets to sell the low blow that he had literally received a few seconds beforehand

4:45 - Botches the mousetrap

---

This is against Jericho who despite being 49 is still a pretty good worker. That's 9 things that I'd mark an X on in a 5:06 clip. That's almost 2 a minute.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> Even if you want to argue that he keeps the AEW audience engaged, he's not strong in the ring or crisp. Everything Wood says above is 100% right.
> 
> Watch this from the biggest match of his career in a TV main event:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 0:03 - Botches a dragon screw legwhip
> 
> 0:08 - Poor psychology as they attempt the exact same move again which Cassidy once again botches.
> 
> 0:16 - Awkward movement and seemingly sells a lifted leg.
> 
> 0:23 - Very weak kick in the corner.
> 
> 1:18 - Botches a third dragon screw legwhip
> 
> 4:32 - Very very weak looking forearms
> 
> 4:36 - Doesn't get Jericho in the right position to set up next spot leading to a very fake looking spot.
> 
> 4:42 - Forgets to sell the low blow that he had literally received a few seconds beforehand
> 
> 4:45 - Botches the mousetrap
> 
> ---
> 
> This is against Jericho who despite being 49 is still a pretty good worker. That's 9 things that I'd mark an X on in a 5:06 clip. That's almost 2 a minute.


Um.. Jericho botched selling of dragon screw - probably can't sell it anymore.

Jericho botched mouse trap because his girth got in way.

Cassidy needed to no sell low blow because match was live & they got cue to go home (he then sold it after match as well as delay when most wouldn't have bothered)!!!!!!! C'mon, even watching months later that should be apparent to anybody who knows wrestling!!!


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> Um.. Jericho botched selling of dragon screw - probably can't sell it anymore.
> 
> Jericho botched mouse trap because his girth got in way.
> 
> Cassidy needed to no sell low blow because match was live & they got cue to go home (he then sold it after match as well as delay when most wouldn't have bothered)!!!!!!! C'mon, even watching months later that should be apparent to anybody who knows wrestling!!!


Okay bro, Orange is awesome and the second coming of Chris Benoit, happy?


----------



## The Wood

Chip Chipperson said:


> Even if you want to argue that he keeps the AEW audience engaged, he's not strong in the ring or crisp. Everything Wood says above is 100% right.
> 
> Watch this from the biggest match of his career in a TV main event:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 0:03 - Botches a dragon screw legwhip
> 
> 0:08 - Poor psychology as they attempt the exact same move again which Cassidy once again botches.
> 
> 0:16 - Awkward movement and seemingly sells a lifted leg.
> 
> 0:23 - Very weak kick in the corner.
> 
> 1:18 - Botches a third dragon screw legwhip
> 
> 4:32 - Very very weak looking forearms
> 
> 4:36 - Doesn't get Jericho in the right position to set up next spot leading to a very fake looking spot.
> 
> 4:42 - Forgets to sell the low blow that he had literally received a few seconds beforehand
> 
> 4:45 - Botches the mousetrap
> 
> ---
> 
> This is against Jericho who despite being 49 is still a pretty good worker. That's 9 things that I'd mark an X on in a 5:06 clip. That's almost 2 a minute.


That was the longest 5 minutes of my life. Thanks for sharing and taking the time though.

I would add that his selling isn’t very good there. He looks more like he’s constipated than in a Boston Crab. Is this the match Meltzer gave 4.5 stars or whatever?

I tend to block out commentary these days, but just from that clip it really jumped out at me how much the commentators step on each other. Shiavone didn’t know how to call the Codebreaker. JR called the Michinoku Driver the Falcon’s Arrow, which Taz found the need to correct even though it doesn’t really matter. Call it properly next time. It was a random telegraphed move in a bad match. Just let it go, Taz. A layperson would have gotten two completely contrary pieces of information. This stuff all adds up.




bdon said:


> Slightly changing gears for a second...
> 
> Cody rHHHodes is god awful for telegraphing moves. I asked this once before, maybe you didn’t see it, but do you not find Cody’s stuff “fake” as well? Forget the story-telling for a second: does the physical action not take you out of the moment..? He constantly looks like he is thinking about the next sequence of events vs just “feeling” them and “working” with his opponent to make great music.


I genuinely don’t think I saw it. I do think that’s a fair criticism of Cody. A lot of his stuff is way too blocked out. That springboard cutter...yikes. I used to like his comebacks off the hot rag from Dustin in 2013. He seemed a lot more “pointed” with what he was doing. His springboard kick (was called Beautiful Disaster at one point, but then became Disaster Kick for some stupid reason...now it could be anything) is shit though. It always looks way too restrained.

Cody isn’t the greatest in the ring. I think the stuff he does get a little right corrects for a lot of stuff he does a little wrong though. He’s a mid-card guy trying to work like a main eventer, haha. But at least he tries.

I dunno, not defending Cody. As I said, fair criticism. He doesn’t piss me off anywhere near as much as OC in the ring though. As an entity that has some measure of power and uses it for totally vain reasons? Yep.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The OC threads are that way lads


----------



## NathanMayberry

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i’ve never gone against my predictions
> 
> just quote the other post too where me and Prosper discussed one episode airing after 10PM and me adjusting the prediction for that day
> 
> just to keep it honest


Prosper's predictions are the worst here. 

I even called him out for it once and he reported me to the mods.


----------



## Prosper

NathanMayberry said:


> Prosper's predictions are the worst here.
> 
> I even called him out for it once and he reported me to the mods.


My guy I have NEVER once reported anyone on this forum or any forum for that matter. I'm not sitting on the Internet crying and bitching to mods because some kid can't get off my dick about predictions that I make. Don't put me on your level.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> I dunno, not defending Cody. As I said, fair criticism. He doesn’t piss me off anywhere near as much as OC in the ring though. As an entity that has some measure of power and uses it for totally vain reasons? Yep.


Oh, Cody doesn’t piss me off in-ring. I can overlook it for the most part...until someone starts telling me he’s the best in the business. Heh.


----------



## NathanMayberry

prosperwithdeen said:


> My guy I have NEVER once reported anyone on this forum or any forum for that matter. I'm not sitting on the Internet crying and bitching to mods because some kid can't get off my dick about predictions that I make. Don't put me on your level.


Okay bud, I believe you as much as I did when you used your super "I work in marketing" knowledge and said AEW would get 1.4 million for its Anniversary


----------



## DammitChrist

prosperwithdeen said:


> My guy I have NEVER once reported anyone on this forum or any forum for that matter. I'm not sitting on the Internet crying and bitching to mods because some kid can't get off my dick about predictions that I make. Don't put me on your level.


Your predictions tend to be fairly accurate and really understandable too. I’m not sure what that poster is talking about, but you actually tend to be right.


----------



## Prosper

NathanMayberry said:


> Okay bud, I believe you as much as I did when you used your super "I work in marketing" knowledge and said AEW would get 1.4 million for its Anniversary


If you believe I’m sitting on WF reporting people then I got a large plot of land in Ethiopia to sell you.

Define the word “prediction” Mayberry. You can Google it I won’t hold it against you.




DammitChrist said:


> Your predictions tend to be fairly accurate and really understandable too. I’m not sure what that poster is talking about, but you actually tend to be right.


Im sure he will post screenshots he saved to his desktop or tablet of past predictions that I have gotten wrong shortly. He may have an entire folder. I’m not sure he understands the concept of what a prediction is or the different factors that go into why I and others make the predictions we make.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> Your predictions tend to be fairly accurate and really understandable too. I’m not sure what that poster is talking about, but you actually tend to be right.


Out of curiosity, what predictions has prosper gotten right? This seems like another thing you’re just saying



bdon said:


> Oh, Cody doesn’t piss me off in-ring. I can overlook it for the most part...until someone starts telling me he’s the best in the business. Heh.


Yeah, that is absolute bullshit. And I definitely think he doesn’t want to be overshadowed, hence why better/more exciting workers aren’t really pursued, or when they come in they are given ridiculous gimmicks.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

One that comes to mind is Prosper predicting over a million for some show and massively back pedalling when called on it.


----------



## K4L318

Chip Chipperson said:


> I feel like when people say "Orange Cassidy is a good worker" they don't really know what working is.
> 
> Working is a mixture of everything in the ring, it includes how crisp your moves are, how great your psychology is, how into the matches the crowd is, safety, basics etc etc
> 
> Orange Cassidy offers very little in any of these departments yet a self proclaimed "workrate mark" is saying he's great.


Nah working is how good ya make da peeps at home believe ya. 

Orange gets the max of what he gets. Peeps feel sorry for him, kids like him and his segments usually do good to great.


----------



## .christopher.

K4L318 said:


> Nah working is how good ya make da peeps at home believe ya.
> 
> Orange gets the max of what he gets. Peeps feel sorry for him, kids like him and his segments usually do good to great.


This is so contradictory. Your first point is spot on, but it's also why OC isn't a good one because no one believes in what he's doing. He's liked because he openly makes it fake and people find it funny. There's no believability in there.


----------



## K4L318

.christopher. said:


> This is so contradictory. Your first point is spot on, but it's also why OC isn't a good one because no one believes in what he's doing. He's liked because he openly makes it fake and people find it funny. There's no believability in there.


nah bruh he's ahead of da curve. He knows how to get dat most peak reaction over anyone. His character never breaks. He's dat slacker. There's a lot of believability there, he wouldn't be getting top ratings and merchandise sales wit out it. 😂


----------



## Not Lying

Two Sheds said:


> Wait? You mean someone released a video saying things? I was not aware.
> 
> Sarcasm over. Show me the data. We both know the minute by minute ratings are not something that have ever been publicly released. I have based all my breakdowns on here on things that have been officially released and verified. I expect the same from others.


Are you questioning this?






it's quite obvious it's legit lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Definition of Technician said:


> Are you questioning this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it's quite obvious it's legit lol


Chris works for AEW - he would be the best possible source for data


----------



## One Shed

The Definition of Technician said:


> Are you questioning this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it's quite obvious it's legit lol


I mean, who am I to question an Excel spreadsheet?

And now @Pippen94 has called for me to be banned for daring to question a paid employee of a company pushing an agenda heh.


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Chris works for AEW - he would be the best possible source for data


No, he would be a biased source.


----------



## Not Lying

Two Sheds said:


> I mean, who am I to question an Excel spreadsheet?
> 
> And now @Pippen94 has called for me to be banned for daring to question a paid employee of a company pushing an agenda heh.


If you do question that, do you also question the quarterly ratings?
do you question whenever TK mentions peak viewership on twitter?


----------



## One Shed

The Definition of Technician said:


> If you do question that, do you also question the quarterly ratings?
> do you question whenever TK mentions peak viewership on twitter?


No, anything like the quarter hours that are consistently released to multiple entities are fine.

I do not question the absolute validity of the peak viewership posts, just anyone saying those things are objective, because those things CAN be spun (not saying they always ARE spun). Like Meltzer saying something was the second least bad thing, etc. If someone says something as fact based on data no one else can obtain and check, I will at least asterisk it.


----------



## Not Lying

Two Sheds said:


> No, anything like the quarter hours that are consistently released to multiple entities are fine.
> 
> I do not question the absolute validity of the peak viewership posts, just anyone saying those things are objective, because those things CAN be spun (not saying they always ARE spun). Like Meltzer saying something was the second least bad thing, etc. If someone says something as fact based on data no one else can obtain and check, I will at least asterisk it.


You're allowed your opinion, but I just don't think the guy is going to manipulate his data just for shits and giggles.
I saw the first 20-25min and skimmed of the rest of the talk, The guy talks about Jericho, Moxley being their biggest draws, how there's several factors (commercials, what NXT has on, what 1min before/after segments..), the guy tracks literally every min of commercial and when.. so I don't see why he'll just change the numbers now.

Plus, Wrestlenomics has been doing a great job breakding down all the data in an objective manner.


----------



## One Shed

The Definition of Technician said:


> You're allowed your opinion, but I just don't think the guy is going to manipulate his data just for shits and giggles.
> I saw the first 20-25min and skimmed of the rest of the talk, The guy talks about Jericho, Moxley being their biggest draws, how there's several factors (commercials, what NXT has on, what 1min before/after segments..), the guy tracks literally every min of commercial and when.. so I don't see why he'll just change the numbers now.
> 
> Plus, Wrestlenomics has been doing a great job breakding down all the data in an objective manner.


To be clear, I am not accusing the guy of changing numbers of just making things up. But people like him in those positions are going to be able to spin things in a way to make some things sound more important or less important based on their agenda. It is what they do. I am not saying he is some nefarious or bad person, but his job is to make AEW look good. So I have no interest in listening to spin doctors like that. I want to see the actual data for myself. That is all I am saying. People (not you) linking to someone like that and saying things like "SEE, this proves blah blah blah" make me laugh. None of that proves anything. They release the internal numbers they want to when they help their cause. Nothing more.


----------



## K4L318

Two Sheds said:


> To be clear, I am not accusing the guy of changing numbers of just making things up. But people like him in those positions are going to be able to spin things in a way to make some things sound more important or less important based on their agenda. It is what they do. I am not saying he is some nefarious or bad person, but his job is to make AEW look good. So I have no interest in listening to spin doctors like that. I want to see the actual data for myself. That is all I am saying. People (not you) linking to someone like that and saying things like "SEE, this proves blah blah blah" make me laugh. None of that proves anything. They release the internal numbers they want to when they help their cause. Nothing more.


bruh Harrington's numbers are official from Nielsen. Pick a real lane. 😂


----------



## One Shed

K4L318 said:


> bruh Harrington's numbers are official from Nielsen. Pick a real lane. 😂


I assure you, my lane is quite real. Again, this is someone who is paid to interpret/spin data so of course I am going to be skeptical. The actual numbers released speak for themselves.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Two Sheds said:


> No, he would be a biased source.


Fair - as discussed in rants, i understand this stance

lies lies and statistics - an analyst can make numbers dance

in the end, the only thing that matters is

1. are they in the top 10
2. Are they still on the air
3. Are they beating nxt

if we can go yes, yes, yes - there is not much more to really discuss in this thread


----------



## 3venflow

RAW go home show to the next PPV did a 1.52 with a 0.41 demo - an all-time record low. This is the industry leader today and why AEW's ratings are just fine whether they're 700k or 1m, as long as there's consistency on a certain level.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1338953487783055362


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

AEW just beat RAW in 18-49, holy fuck, we all knew it was going to happen, but faster than I thought.


----------



## bdon

Sting brings down Raw...AGAIN.

FUCK YOU, VINCE!!! HAHAHAHAH


----------



## Klitschko

3venflow said:


> RAW go home show to the next PPV did a 1.52 with a 0.41 demo - an all-time record low. This is the industry leader today and why AEW's ratings are just fine whether they're 700k or 1m, as long as there's consistency on a certain level.


Damn, it was that low? I wonder if they are nervous with such a low rating leading into a ppv.

And beating RAW's all 3 hours is a big deal, no matter which way you look at it in my opinion.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Well geez

that’s not bad


----------



## 3venflow

Klitschko said:


> And beating RAW's all 3 hours is a big deal, no matter which way you look at it in my opinion.


Oh, give it a few hours and _they_ will be here to play it down. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1338955620066578432


----------



## One Shed

Last night's RAW was HORRIBLE. It made me want to stop watching until around the rumble, if even then. They deserve to lose after that horror show.


----------



## Shock Street

Its by no means equal to beating RAW... but its still pretty cool for them. Good job fellas.


----------



## bdon

22 years of dominance as #1 company in the industry.

Sting returns to TNT and reassumes his position of thwarting the evil doers. And Vince had nothing for this man.

So, I will repeat...FUCK YOU, VINCE!!!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Shock Street said:


> Its by no means equal to beating RAW... but its still pretty cool for them. Good job fellas.


well, if they were appearing on the same showbuzzdaily sheet with these numbers, they would be ranked above Raw

but it is anecdotal / can’t really compare different nights

but still, feels nice


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> well, if they were appearing on the same showbuzzdaily sheet with these numbers, they would be ranked above Raw
> 
> but it is anecdotal / can’t really compare different nights
> 
> but still, feels nice


But what is important to me...

@The Wood, get ya ass in here, bro, because more people just chose to watch on Wednesday night than a Monday.





Even if it is likely only for one night. Lol


----------



## Shock Street

LifeInCattleClass said:


> well, if they were appearing on the same showbuzzdaily sheet with these numbers, they would be ranked above Raw
> 
> but it is anecdotal / can’t really compare different nights
> 
> but still, feels nice


That's true, the Nielsen ratings are ranked by demo. I'm just strictly speaking for myself here, but RAW isn't truly beaten in my eyes until AEW has knocked them in both categories, and for more than a single week. And even then, I'm okay with both of them waxing and waning who's on top, as long as it means they both improve.

but yes, feels nice




bdon said:


> But what is important to me...
> 
> @The Wood, get ya ass in here, bro, because more people just chose to watch on Wednesday night than a Monday.
> 
> Even if it is likely only for one night. Lol


Okay, NXT and AEW having a bigger total is pretty cool. They have a long way to go with it being 2 on 1, but I hope that trend continues. I tried to watch RAW a few times over the last months (hadn't seen it since Kane was throwing fireballs in the late 90s) and besides Drew and Sheamus having the craic, it's been painful to sit through.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

bdon said:


> 22 years of dominance as #1 company in the industry.
> 
> Sting returns to TNT and reassumes his position of thwarting the evil doers. And Vince had nothing for this man.
> 
> So, I will repeat...FUCK YOU, VINCE!!!


True. But Sting has clearly benefitted from the Cody rub, amirite? 😏

Beating Raw's demo is pretty cool in honesty. Another notch for the bedpost


----------



## fabi1982

Funny that competition doesnt count in the other direction. The football game drew a 3.57 demo and 12+m overall, but hey lets forget that


----------



## bdon

Shock Street said:


> Okay, NXT and AEW having a bigger total is pretty cool. They have a long way to go with it being 2 on 1, but I hope that trend continues. I tried to watch RAW a few times over the last months (hadn't seen it since Kane was throwing fireballs in the late 90s) and besides Drew and Sheamus having the craic, it's been painful to sit through.


I don’t watch WWE programming, because I hug my “Fuck Vince McMahon” tightly. So, more fans choosing to watch a tshirt wrestling company and a developmental brand over Vince’s product gives me hope for fans’ taste.


----------



## bdon

fabi1982 said:


> Funny that competition doesnt count in the other direction. The football game drew a 3.57 demo and 12+m overall, but hey lets forget that


Don’t do a heel turn now, @fabi1982 , not today. Let me bask in the glory that is “FUCK YOU, VINCE!!” day lol


----------



## Shock Street

bdon said:


> I don’t watch WWE programming, because I hug my “Fuck Vince McMahon” tightly. So, more fans choosing to watch a tshirt wrestling company and a developmental brand over Vince’s product gives me hope for fans’ taste.


Stick with it bruv


----------



## bdon

Shock Street said:


> Stick with it bruv


I waited 19 years for this day. I am soaking this one up.


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> Don’t do a heel turn now, @fabi1982 , not today. Let me bask in the glory that is “FUCK YOU, VINCE!!” day lol


Haha you can have your day, lets sing it from the rooftops  I just wanted to point out that neither this nor comparing weeks doesnt make sense, where was this post last week, when there was a real weeks comparison?

But whatever...TELL VINCE, @bdon


----------



## bdon

fabi1982 said:


> Haha you can have your day, lets sing it from the rooftops  I just wanted to point out that neither this nor comparing weeks doesnt make sense, where was this post last week, when there was a real weeks comparison?
> 
> But whatever...TELL VINCE, @bdon


I TOLD HIS ASS FOR 19 YEARS BY REFUSING TO WATCH WRESTLING AGAIN.

I know my Cody hatred is hilarious and all, but it pales in comparison to my hatred of Vince. He is scum.


----------



## Klitschko

What happens when you involve Cody in 3 different storylines at the same time? You beat RAW in demo for all 3 hours lol. I'm expecting a telepathic fuck you from Bdon, and its well earned.


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> I TOLD HIS ASS FOR 19 YEARS BY REFUSING TO WATCH WRESTLING AGAIN.
> 
> I know my Cody hatred is hilarious and all, but it pales in comparison to my hatred of Vince. He is scum.


I know I know and you have every right to hate and to party today, go for it


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> I TOLD HIS ASS FOR 19 YEARS BY REFUSING TO WATCH WRESTLING AGAIN.
> 
> I know my Cody hatred is hilarious and all, but it pales in comparison to my hatred of Vince. He is scum.


#BDONSCREWEDVINCE


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> #BDONSCREWEDVINCE


Beat them into submission. Lol


----------



## bdon

Klitschko said:


> What happens when you involve Cody in 3 different storylines at the same time? You beat RAW in demo for all 3 hours lol. I'm expecting a telepathic fuck you from Bdon, and its well earned.


No, doing that will lead to over a 100k lost viewers this week.

This rating was all on the Stinger.


----------



## Shock Street

bdon said:


> No, doing that will lead to over a 100k lost viewers this week.
> 
> This rating was all on the Stinger.


nah brah it was all people waiting for Dustin and 10

Afterwards, they found the Dustin and 10 match made them so happy and fulfilled, they felt they owed it to AEW to watch the rest of the show.










Look into your heart bdon


----------



## Klitschko

They probably could have gotten to a 1.6 mill viewership this past week if Kenny had worn a tie and a suit.


----------



## Erik.

It is beginning to look to me like the younger fans are simply giving up on the WWE product and instead deciding to watch the newer, fresher product that's on easily accessible television.

Can't say that I blame them. This is exactly what happened with ECW in the 1990s until the nWo and WCW got hot, then the eventual shift once the Attitude Era took off.

If AEW continues to lock down the younger audience, they'll keep climbing. The older audience does migrate, but it takes longer. WWE is clinging to their older audience and losing their younger audience.

This is good for wrestling.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Hold on, are we all celebrating that a company that aims it's product solely towards 18-49 beat a product that aims it products to all ages in the 18-49 demo?

You guys are carrying on like AEW just hit a 2.0 million rating and beat RAW clean in the overall...settle down lol


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Hold on, are we all celebrating that a company that aims it's product solely towards 18-49 beat a product that aims it products to all ages in the 18-49 demo?
> 
> You guys are carrying on like AEW just hit a 2.0 million rating and beat RAW clean in the overall...settle down lol


Shut up. Don’t ruin my fun, Chip. I celebrate any Vince L’s no matter how minuscule. Lmao


----------



## DammitChrist

3venflow said:


> RAW go home show to the next PPV did a 1.52 with a 0.41 demo - an all-time record low. This is the industry leader today and why AEW's ratings are just fine whether they're 700k or 1m, as long as there's consistency on a certain level.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1338953487783055362



Wow, big congrats to them for holding up really well with the demographic numbers!

I'd say that this cool highlight is worth celebrating on here


----------



## Klitschko

Didn't someone say few days ago that RAW would go back up to 2 mill around Wrestlemania season. Doesn't look like it with the way they are going.


----------



## RapShepard

So people are declaring victory over a show that aired a different day and week?


----------



## Machismo88

Never thought I'd see the day where fan's are bragging about a show's demo like it's some impressive number lol. They have barely been able to get a million eyes on the product in total, the hate for Vince is so cringe & tiring. What if i told you the biggest star in pro wrestling from the past 15 years wasn't marketed towards 18-49 but made more money than anyone .


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Machismo88 said:


> Never thought I'd see the day where fan's are bragging about a show's demo like it's some impressive number lol.


As we have discussed many times the number is only impressive if it's attracting advertisers and sponsors.

5 years ago nobody cared about demo.


----------



## RapShepard

Chip Chipperson said:


> As we have discussed many times the number is only impressive if it's attracting advertisers and sponsors.
> 
> 5 years ago nobody cared about demo.


No they do impressive numbers for a wrestling show in 2020. But declaring victory over a show that aired a different day and week is... Desperate. At least if it's this week's episode it'd make more sense.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

RapShepard said:


> No they do impressive numbers for a wrestling show in 2020. But declaring victory over a show that aired a different day and week is... Desperate. At least if it's this week's episode it'd make more sense.


Yeah sure, 18-49 is great, it shows that they're attracting the youths which is their aim but it hasn't resulted in any more money or anything positive for them just yet.

Until it does we can happily say 18-49 means nothing (To AEW)


----------



## RapShepard

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah sure, 18-49 is great, it shows that they're attracting the youths which is their aim but it hasn't resulted in any more money or anything positive for them just yet.
> 
> Until it does we can happily say 18-49 means nothing (To AEW)


That's not fair to say. Them doing so well is why they got the early extension. The strong demo is probably why Cody was asked to host on a new game show Turner media has. If they didn't think the face of AEW was beneficial they'd have gave it somebody else.


----------



## thenglishpatriot

Chip Chipperson said:


> Hold on, are we all celebrating that a company that aims it's product solely towards 18-49 beat a product that aims it products to all ages in the 18-49 demo?
> 
> You guys are carrying on like AEW just hit a 2.0 million rating and beat RAW clean in the overall...settle down lol


imagine going out your way to defend wwe in 2020. ITS FUCKING GARBAGE


----------



## Machismo88

Chip Chipperson said:


> As we have discussed many times the number is only impressive if it's attracting advertisers and sponsors.
> 
> 5 years ago nobody cared about demo.


No fans cared about the demo in the hottest era of wrestling either, which swayed both ways, not just one. It's just another reason for fans to bash Vince over anything they can.


----------



## bdon

Machismo88 said:


> No fans cared about the demo in the hottest era of wrestling either, which swayed both ways, not just one. It's just another reason for fans to bash Vince over anything they can.


No, my “Fuck Vince McMahon” has been hugged for 25 or more years for him being a massive piece of shit, scumbag, weirdo and no telling what other things that we can’t prove.

18-49 is low, LOWWWWWWW, on my reasoning.


----------



## bdon

I hope my posts aren’t being misconstrued as a massive win for AEW. It’s moreso the fact that if I can’t watch someone rise to overthrow Vince, then I’ll glad settle for watching his empire crumble.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> I hope my posts aren’t being misconstrued as a massive win for AEW. It’s moreso the fact that if I can’t watch someone rise to overthrow Vince, then I’ll glad settle for watching his empire crumble.


No one should want WWE to go out of business though. We need multiple, healthy companies. This "should" be the catalyst for WWE to change. It worked once before.


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> No one should want WWE to go out of business though. We need multiple, healthy companies. This "should" be the catalyst for WWE to change. It worked once before.


WWE doesn’t want multiple, healthy companies. They’ve proven that for 40 fucking years. Their end game is to just buy up any and all talent, kill their aura, and coast. You really want WWE to grow again, get better, and put out any hope of any kind of competition?

Given the choice of a strong WWE and nothing, I’ll take nothing. Easy choice for me. One I made for 19 straight years.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> WWE doesn’t want multiple, healthy companies. They’ve proven that for 40 fucking years. Their end game is to just buy up any and all talent, kill their aura, and coast. You really want WWE to grow again, get better, and put out any hope of any kind of competition?
> 
> Given the choice of a strong WWE and nothing, I’ll take nothing. Easy choice for me. One I made for 19 straight years.


I never said that is what WWE wants, but that is what I want. Vince has proven he can change when forced. I know you did not care for the AE, but the war in the 90's helped create a ton of new fans and got people in the business paid a lot more than before. I do want WWE to get better, of course. It is hard to imagine it getting worse, but they manage to surprise me. It is not like WWE is losing money, they are making more than ever, so they might as well produce a good product, right?

Vince cannot live forever, but he might make it awhile longer. His mom is still alive afterall heh.


----------



## La Parka

thenglishpatriot said:


> imagine going out your way to defend wwe in 2020. ITS FUCKING GARBAGE


Pointing out facts is not defending WWE.

WWE hasn't marketed towards the 18+ demo in more than a decade. Its silly to celebrate beating them in a demographic that hasn't been a priority since 2007.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

La Parka said:


> Pointing out facts is not defending WWE.
> 
> WWE hasn't marketed towards the 18+ demo in more than a decade. Its silly to celebrate beating them in a demographic that hasn't been a priority since 2007.


WWE is geared towards everyone which is ideally where you want to hit.


----------



## Machismo88

Imagine thinking the biggest pro wrestling company in the world, that is viewed in hundreds of countries & has their own damn network is going out of business because a show on a Wednesday has a higher demo rating in 18-49... see how crazy that sounds?


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> I never said that is what WWE wants, but that is what I want. Vince has proven he can change when forced. I know you did not care for the AE, but the war in the 90's helped create a ton of new fans and got people in the business paid a lot more than before. I do want WWE to get better, of course. It is hard to imagine it getting worse, but they manage to surprise me. It is not like WWE is losing money, they are making more than ever, so they might as well produce a good product, right?
> 
> Vince cannot live forever, but he might make it awhile longer. His mom is still alive afterall heh.


And what came of all that? A WWE monopoly.

Fuck that.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> And what came of all that? A WWE monopoly.
> 
> Fuck that.


Well, I do not want that either.


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> Well, I do not want that either.


Guess what happens when WWE is doing well?

In the 80s, they killed off the territories.
In the 90s, they killed off national companies.
In the last 20 years, HHH has made it his mission to kill off the indies.

You think their MO is just going to change?


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> Guess what happens when WWE is doing well?
> 
> In the 80s, they killed off the territories.
> In the 90s, they killed off national companies.
> In the last 20 years, HHH has made it his mission to kill off the indies.
> 
> You think their MO is just going to change?


They never killed WCW though. The AOL/Time Warner merger did that along with their own hilarious ability to mismanage themselves.

Every company in every industry wants to beat their competition. You think Coke wants Pepsi to do well? Tony can say he does not want to compete all he wants, but he is by default. His dad has more money than Vince so he can keep going as long as he wants.


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> They never killed WCW though. The AOL/Time Warner merger did that along with their own hilarious ability to mismanage themselves.
> 
> Every company in every industry wants to beat their competition. You think Coke wants Pepsi to do well? Tony can say he does not want to compete all he wants, but he is by default. His dad has more money than Vince so he can keep going as long as he wants.


He bought them and just disbanded them. Just like he did the territories. Just like he did the indies. Just like he’ll likely do AEW when Tony gets bored with it.

A strong WWE is not good for the long term health of the business.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> He bought them and just disbanded them. Just like he did the territories. Just like he did the indies. Just like he’ll likely do AEW when Tony gets bored with it.
> 
> A strong WWE is not good for the long term health of the business.


I am not defending what Vince did with them. I still get hot over how that HHH and Booker T feud went heh.

I think multiple strong companies are healthy for the business, not one giant one and a bunch of small ones so I am all for the others growing. WWE is going to be around for the long term no matter what, so I would rather them produce good content than bad. That way I am entertained more heh.


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> I am not defending what Vince did with them. I still get hot over how that HHH and Booker T feud went heh.
> 
> I think multiple strong companies are healthy for the business, not one giant one and a bunch of small ones so I am all for the others growing. WWE is going to be around for the long term no matter what, so I would rather them produce good content than bad. That way I am entertained more heh.


WWE doing well only means one thing historically. I’ll continue rooting for their demise.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> WWE doing well only means one thing historically. I’ll continue rooting for their demise.


I think I am just being realistic. WWE is producing horrible content (at least on RAW) but is making more money than ever before so they will be around.

I think the future possibilities are (say in the next 10-25 years):

1. WWE is bought by Disney (10%)
2. WWE goes out of business (<1%)
3. Vince lives to be 100 and we will all be served the "good shit" until at least 2045 (89.9%)


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> I think I am just being realistic. WWE is producing horrible content (at least on RAW) but is making more money than ever before so they will be around.
> 
> I think the future possibilities are (say in the next 10-25 years):
> 
> 1. WWE is bought by Disney (10%)
> 2. WWE goes out of business (<1%)
> 3. Vince lives to be 100 and we will all be served the "good shit" until at least 2045 (89.9%)


Unfortunately your percentages are exactly how it is likely to go down.

Doesn’t mean I won’t continue to root for his ass to fail horribly..


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Two Sheds said:


> I think I am just being realistic. WWE is producing horrible content (at least on RAW) but is making more money than ever before so they will be around.
> 
> I think the future possibilities are (say in the next 10-25 years):
> 
> 1. WWE is bought by Disney (10%)
> 2. WWE goes out of business (<1%)
> 3. Vince lives to be 100 and we will all be served the "good shit" until at least 2045 (89.9%)


disney won’t buy wwe - too carny

amazon might


----------



## kamaro011

Two Sheds said:


> I think I am just being realistic. WWE is producing horrible content (at least on RAW) but is making more money than ever before so they will be around.
> 
> I think the future possibilities are (say in the next 10-25 years):
> 
> 1. WWE is bought by Disney (10%)
> 2. WWE goes out of business (<1%)
> 3. Vince lives to be 100 and we will all be served the "good shit" until at least 2045 (89.9%)


Number 3 will be even more likely and beyond, i hear thar Vince's Mom is still live well on the age of 100. Her son more likely carry her gene, Vince will outlives all of us at this point.


----------



## One Shed

kamaro011 said:


> Number 3 will be even more likely and beyond, i hear thar Vince's Mom is still live well on the age of 100. Her son more likely carry her gene, Vince will outlives all of us at this point.


Yup, Vince's mom is still alive at 100, and I have no doubt Vince will find a way to be close to that, if not more.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Two Sheds said:


> Yup, Vince's mom is still alive at 100, and I have no doubt Vince will find a way to be close to that, if not more.


Vince may live another 50 years through the power of sheer spite alone.


----------



## kamaro011

Two Sheds said:


> Yup, Vince's mom is still alive at 100, and I have no doubt Vince will find a way to be close to that, if not more.


It makes me feel angry and sad, people like him will continue live well and healthy to a very old age by today standards. Even if he passed away, he will never get comeuppance and retribution for all his past sin and mistake he gotten over the course of his years as living.

He is one of proof that there's no fair and justice on this world.


----------



## One Shed

kamaro011 said:


> It makes me feel angry and sad, people like him will continue live well and healthy to a very old age by today standards. Even if he passed away, he will never get comeuppance and retribution for all his past sin and mistake he gotten over the course of his years as living.
> 
> He is one of proof that there's no fair and justice on this world.


I do not mean this to be complete list, but yeah. There is no justice.


----------



## bdon

El Hammerstone said:


> Vince may live another 50 years through the power of sheer spite alone.


Goddamn. Can I report Vince for baiting through sheer existence!? Haha


----------



## Pippen94

Where is @RapShepard - aew already top wrestling show on cable


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Fair - as discussed in rants, i understand this stance
> 
> lies lies and statistics - an analyst can make numbers dance
> 
> in the end, the only thing that matters is
> 
> 1. are they in the top 10
> 2. Are they still on the air
> 3. Are they beating nxt
> 
> if we can go yes, yes, yes - there is not much more to really discuss in this thread


If you saw video - guy just showed minute by minute rating for both shows - later he went in & removed ads etc to show how he looks at data. To say numbers were false is big stretch for unknown poster on message board


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Where is @RapShepard - aew already top wrestling show on cable


Well they lost last week so idk how that works


----------



## Not Lying

3venflow said:


> RAW go home show to the next PPV did a 1.52 with a 0.41 demo - an all-time record low. This is the industry leader today and why AEW's ratings are just fine whether they're 700k or 1m, as long as there's consistency on a certain level.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1338953487783055362


but but but.. Why are you comparing last week's AEW with this week's RAW? You should wait till this week for a fair comparison!!11



RapShepard said:


> Well they lost last week so idk how that works


Dude just because this is true doesn't take away from what AEW just did. It's quite significant.



Pippen94 said:


> If you saw video - guy just showed minute by minute rating for both shows - later he went in & removed ads etc to show how he looks at data. To say numbers were false is big stretch for unknown poster on message board


Yeah the numbers are real. I mean he did show the data just not share his work with everyone, seems like a weird hill to die on discrediting the guy. He can spin numbers all he wants but at the end of the day all we need is "from this min to this min the ratings were XX" and then we can spin however we want.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> Where is @RapShepard - aew already top wrestling show on cable


Don't complain tomorrow when AEW doesn't crack a million again and people mock people like you.



Pippen94 said:


> If you saw video - guy just showed minute by minute rating for both shows - later he went in & removed ads etc to show how he looks at data. To say numbers were false is big stretch for unknown poster on message board


Unknown poster? Bite your tongue! That's Two Sheds man!


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> Dude just because this is true doesn't take away from what AEW just did. It's quite significant.


I'd get it if they did it this week, since it's the same week of shows. But when its not the same week of shows it's grasping at straws. It's only significant if you take a lot of context out. The first being that's it's a different week.


----------



## Not Lying

RapShepard said:


> I'd get it if they did it this week, since it's the same week of shows. But when its not the same week of shows it's grasping at straws. It's only significant if you take a lot of context out. The first being that's it's a different week.


I didn't think AEW would be close to RAW numbers, especially so soon after they started. If they could have these ratings within the same time-frame (a couple of months), I'd say it's impressive and significant.

This isn't like TNA topping at 2.2m and RAW doing this "low number" a bunch years later, it was just 1 week after.

Why should "it's a different week" thing matter that much, it's just semantics, it's a 5 day difference.


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> I didn't think AEW would be close to RAW numbers, especially so soon after they started. If they could have these ratings within the same time-frame (a couple of months), I'd say it's impressive and significant.
> 
> This isn't like TNA topping at 2.2m and RAW doing this "low number" a bunch years later, it was just 1 week after.


AEW has certainly been killing it, that's for sure. But its lame on Dave and Bryan's end as they went from comparing things that don't even air against each other, to now comparing things from different weeks. All in order to prop up something that's doing well without the no context spinn.


----------



## Not Lying

RapShepard said:


> AEW has certainly been killing it, that's for sure. But its lame on Dave and Bryan's end as they went from comparing things that don't even air against each other, to now comparing things from different weeks. *All in order to prop up something that's doing well without the no context spinn.*


🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️ I don't see it much of a spin. Coming from journalists, sure, but for us fans, seeing the most recent AEW numbers do well compared to RAW, is quite astonishing.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> AEW has certainly been killing it, that's for sure. But its lame on Dave and Bryan's end as they went from comparing things that don't even air against each other, to now comparing things from different weeks. All in order to prop up something that's doing well without the no context spinn.


I don’t think it is about AEW so much as it is a statement on WWE. Alvarez said on Twitter, WHILE WATCHING THE SHOW, that it was “like WWE just wants to give the 18-49 to AEW”.

It’s a subtle thing, but he didn’t say AEW had taken it from them. Vince gave it away. 5 days time, even if a different calendar week, is semantics. The point rings true: Vince and WWE are slipping so badly that AEW taking over that demographic is approaching quicker and quicker. That is a bargaining chip for him.

For the record, I don’t think for a second it means AEW’s business finances will raise, but I do believe this gives the networks leverage to lower their costs with Vince when the time arises.


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> [emoji2369][emoji2369] I don't see it much of a spin. Coming from journalists, sure, but for us fans, seeing the most recent AEW numbers do well compared to RAW, is quite astonishing.


I mean you're comparing numbers from different weeks with little context. 



bdon said:


> I don’t think it is about AEW so much as it is a statement on WWE. Alvarez said on Twitter, WHILE WATCHING THE SHOW, that it was “like WWE just wants to give the 18-49 to AEW”.
> 
> It’s a subtle thing, but he didn’t say AEW had taken it from them. Vince gave it away. 5 days time, even if a different calendar week, is semantics. The point rings true: Vince and WWE are slipping so badly that AEW taking over that demographic is approaching quicker and quicker. That is a bargaining chip for him.
> 
> For the record, I don’t think for a second it means AEW’s business finances will raise, but I do believe this gives the networks leverage to lower their costs with Vince when the time arises.


It's not really semantics though when you consider the context left out. Now they certainly might catch them given Raw's free fall and AEW pleasing it's core. But it's clear on Alvarez on Meltzer's end they're looking for any victory for talking points. Remember a few months ago they did better than Raw in the female 12-34 one week and it was a big deal. Then female 18-34 wasn't important anymore after. 

As far as driving down the price, who knows networks are weird and random. UFC got more money than WWE despite doing worse demo numbers and providing less hours of live content.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> I mean you're comparing numbers from different weeks with little context.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not really semantics though when you consider the context left out. Now they certainly might catch them given Raw's free fall and AEW pleasing it's core. But it's clear on Alvarez on Meltzer's end they're looking for any victory for talking points. Remember a few months ago they did better than Raw in the female 12-34 one week and it was a big deal. Then female 18-34 wasn't important anymore after.
> 
> As far as driving down the price, who knows networks are weird and random. UFC got more money than WWE despite doing worse demo numbers and providing less hours of live content.


Maybe it is in how we hear their analysis, because I never listen to them and think, “Oh yeah! AEW killing it”. Even when they mentioned the 18-34 female demo, I always take it as a shot at Raw, not a propping of AEW.

But again, that’s just me.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> Maybe it is in how we hear their analysis, because I never listen to them and think, “Oh yeah! AEW killing it”. Even when they mentioned the 18-34 female demo, I always take it as a shot at Raw, not a propping of AEW.
> 
> But again, that’s just me.


For me I hear it as both thus the reaching comparison.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> For me I hear it as both thus the reaching comparison.


If you paid attention you may have seen this day coming


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pippen94 said:


> If you saw video - guy just showed minute by minute rating for both shows - later he went in & removed ads etc to show how he looks at data. To say numbers were false is big stretch for unknown poster on message board


no, i get it

but i also have experience in making numbers dance to only show what i want to show and not highlight what i want to hide

now me, i trust the source to give a clear picture

Shed is saying he doesn’t because of his AEW employ - and personally i can understand that


----------



## thenglishpatriot

La Parka said:


> Pointing out facts is not defending WWE.
> 
> WWE hasn't marketed towards the 18+ demo in more than a decade. Its silly to celebrate beating them in a demographic that hasn't been a priority since 2007.


and you know this how?


----------



## La Parka

thenglishpatriot said:


> and you know this how?


I’ve watched Raw since 2007?


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> no, i get it
> 
> but i also have experience in making numbers dance to only show what i want to show and not highlight what i want to hide
> 
> now me, i trust the source to give a clear picture
> 
> Shed is saying he doesn’t because of his AEW employ - and personally i can understand that


I am glad you can easily see how anyone competent at marketing/advertising can make real numbers (I have never said this guy or anyone else is just making up numbers) support just about any point of view.

It does not matter if this guy works for AEW/WWE/any other third party company. I am automatically putting an asterisk next to any human who feels the need to interpret numbers for me. Anything other than just the data is manipulated to one degree or another.

But @Pippen94 called for me to be banned from this site for calling an AEW employee biased towards AEW. I am still laughing pretty hard at all this.


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> If you paid attention you may have seen this day coming


Mhmm yeah so they won't lose again by July is your prediction still right? That better hold out ol great predictor lol


----------



## fabi1982

Everyone parading this around (except @bdon because he is a good guy) should take every „look this weeks comparison is 0.44 RAW to 0.3x AEW“ comment on Thursday without any outrage.
Yeah it is a good thing, that AEW did good. They also beat this weeks RAW with the first ever Dynamite...and the one after that...

I would actually like to see a demo number, when Dynamite has competition doing 3.57 in demo (what was last weeks no.1? 0.47?). Oh well we can do this, just check the demo for the presidential debates. What was it? I dont remember a 0.41 back then.

So again it is a good rating and RAW did a bad rating, but thats it.
There is no paradigm shift or anything. Next week (when there is a normal NFL game going) RAW will be at 0.5x and AEW without all the hype will be in its normal 0.3x range.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

fabi1982 said:


> Everyone parading this around (except @bdon because he is a good guy) should take every „look this weeks comparison is 0.44 RAW to 0.3x AEW“ comment on Thursday without any outrage.
> Yeah it is a good thing, that AEW did good. They also beat this weeks RAW with the first ever Dynamite...and the one after that...
> 
> I would actually like to see a demo number, when Dynamite has competition doing 3.57 in demo (what was last weeks no.1? 0.47?). Oh well we can do this, just check the demo for the presidential debates. What was it? I dont remember a 0.41 back then.
> 
> So again it is a good rating and RAW did a bad rating, but thats it.
> There is no paradigm shift or anything. Next week (when there is a normal NFL game going) RAW will be at 0.5x and AEW without all the hype will be in its normal 0.3x range.


I think most people agree pal. It's no major victory (they're not even in direct competition) but it is a nice milestone. Consistency and growth are most important for AEW, not beating Raw.


----------



## Not Lying

fabi1982 said:


> Everyone parading this around (except @bdon because he is a good guy) should take every „*look this weeks comparison is 0.44 RAW to 0.3x AEW“ comment on Thursday without any outrage.*
> Yeah it is a good thing, that AEW did good. They also beat this weeks RAW with the first ever Dynamite...and the one after that...
> 
> I would actually like to see a demo number, when Dynamite has competition doing 3.57 in demo (what was last weeks no.1? 0.47?). Oh well we can do this, just check the demo for the presidential debates. What was it? I dont remember a 0.41 back then.
> 
> So again it is a good rating and RAW did a bad rating, but thats it.
> There is no paradigm shift or anything. Next week (when there is a normal NFL game going) RAW will be at 0.5x and AEW without all the hype will be in its normal 0.3x range.


Nobody cares. RAW should be beating AEW, AEW shouldn't be close to RAW that is much bigger, which is on a Monday night (historically better night for wrestling) and has no direct competition. Nobody takes it with outrage, we just laugh because you feel the need to point to the obvious that everyone knows. Stay mad while we celebrate small wins.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Eric Bischoff spoke in his most recent podcast about the 18-49 demographic before going off on a tangent.

- He says Dave Meltzer doesn't know shit about ratings and copies what he hears from media magazines or people he hears.

- Says whilst the 18-49 demographic is important the overall package is truly important. He says the kids are perhaps just as important as 18-49 because those are the people who become fans and presumably spend more throughout their lifetime on a product.

- Proclaims that 18-49 is only a thing now because people need something new to talk about and analyse.

- He also mentioned Russo booking solely for the 18-49 demographic and how it was detrimental because it alienates other demos.

Was brief but pretty insightful. inb4 Eric is wrong and 18-49 is the only thing that matters.


----------



## fabi1982

The Definition of Technician said:


> Nobody cares. RAW should be beating AEW, AEW shouldn't be close to RAW that is much bigger, which is on a Monday night (historically better night for wrestling) and has no direct competition. Nobody takes it with outrage, we just laugh because you feel the need to point to the obvious that everyone knows. Stay mad while we celebrate small wins.


I celebrate this too, just in different circumstances and without false comparison from the Meltzers. Like I said this is very good for AEW to attract young viewers, like @Pentagon Senior said, doesnt matter what the competition does.

I am just annoyed by the comments hinting into the direction that this will be the norm and with „this“ I mean the demo for AEW. They take small steps in the right direction, but no one (and some in here do) should think they will stay above 0.4

Edit: and to go by your comment, RAW beat AEW last week and they will do this week, so they do and they will in the future


----------



## Pentagon Senior

I don't expect them to maintain all of the numbers gained for the last two shows over the next month or so but hopefully they retain SOME. There is likely to be a natural dip with such a gap to the next ppv and when the Sting bounce wears off. The key is to see a consistent growth when we look at averages for month to month, or ideally year on year, to give the best picture. They're already at a pretty successful level imo, especially considering the pandemic, but they can't rest on their laurels. 

The only promotion they should see themselves in direct competition with at present is themselves.


----------



## Pippen94

[/QUOTE]


RapShepard said:


> Mhmm yeah so they won't lose again by July is your prediction still right? That better hold out ol great predictor lol


First of all; man up & admit you were wrong.
Just days ago you said aew beating raw was fanciful - how does that look now??

Secondly, don't put words into my mouth - never said they would win every week

Last of all is that ppl who have been tracking ratings realized there was trend ratings would meet. Started with certain demos; that was initial stage - the bit you call reaching


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> I am glad you can easily see how anyone competent at marketing/advertising can make real numbers (I have never said this guy or anyone else is just making up numbers) support just about any point of view.
> 
> It does not matter if this guy works for AEW/WWE/any other third party company. I am automatically putting an asterisk next to any human who feels the need to interpret numbers for me. Anything other than just the data is manipulated to one degree or another.
> 
> But @Pippen94 called for me to be banned from this site for calling an AEW employee biased towards AEW. I am still laughing pretty hard at all this.


Your point is irrelevant; guy just displayed raw numbers for both shows for most of video.


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Your point is irrelevant; guy just displayed raw numbers for both shows for most of video.


This is just not true. Just take the L on this one. The numbers speak for themselves. Someone making a video to discuss the numbers gives them a slant by definition.


----------



## RapShepard

First of all; man up & admit you were wrong.
Just days ago you said aew beating raw was fanciful - how does that look now??

Secondly, don't put words into my mouth - never said they would win every week

Last of all is that ppl who have been tracking ratings realized there was trend ratings would meet. Started with certain demos; that was initial stage - the bit you call reaching[/QUOTE]
This is what you claimed last week

If you're claiming they're going to be the #1 on cable surely you mean consistently and not one time n

Now you're trying to claim victory for a shows that didn't even air in the same week. Just remember last week, they lost in the key demo to the same weeks Raw.


Pippen94 said:


> Aew growing every week 0.37, 0.42 & now 0.45.
> Projections to catch raw have speed up - so close now.
> *At this rate will become no.1 wrestling show on cable sometime in first half of next year*


Just remember last week they lost Raw that aired the same week


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> This is what you argued last week.
> 
> 
> 
> *If you're claiming they're going to be the #1 on cable surely you mean consistently and not one time n
> 
> Now you're trying to claim victory for a shows that didn't even air in the same week. Just remember last week, they lost in the key demo to the same weeks Raw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Man - keep putting words in my mouth.

You said aew beating raw in next 6 months was big leap - now it's happened.

Most reasonable ppl would admit they got it wrong - not you huh??


----------



## kamaro011

Pippen94 said:


> Man - keep putting words in my mouth.
> 
> You said aew beating raw in next 6 months was big leap - now it's happened.
> 
> Most reasonable ppl would admit they got it wrong - not you huh??


Dynamite didn't air on the same night on Raw or Smackdown, how could it become a fair to be observed?


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Man - keep putting words in my mouth.
> 
> You said aew beating raw in next 6 months was big leap - now it's happened.
> 
> Most reasonable ppl would admit they got it wrong - not you huh??


How do you claim victory over a show that you didn't even air in the same week as Pip? How does that work out? 

This is what you argued last week.



Pippen94 said:


> Aew growing every week 0.37, 0.42 & now 0.45.
> Projections to catch raw have speed up - so close now.
> *At this rate will become no.1 wrestling show on cable sometime in first half of next year*


*

Please explain to me where I'm putting words in your mouth. You said by the latest July of next year. That's your words not mine.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Two Sheds said:


> I am glad you can easily see how anyone competent at marketing/advertising can make real numbers (I have never said this guy or anyone else is just making up numbers) support just about any point of view.
> 
> It does not matter if this guy works for AEW/WWE/any other third party company. I am automatically putting an asterisk next to any human who feels the need to interpret numbers for me. Anything other than just the data is manipulated to one degree or another.
> 
> But @Pippen94 called for me to be banned from this site for calling an AEW employee biased towards AEW. I am still laughing pretty hard at all this.


mate... making numbers dance to be what you want them to be is a marketer's first job

you don't lie - but you just omit what you don't want to show

so I understand your stance fully - on the flip side, the only data we'll ever get is Showbuzzdaily (unless we get our grubby hands on the raw data or a rate card)

so, we'll have to be content with that as the 'purest' data

but like I said, personally I had no issue with his analysis - but I will also not treat it like gospel


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> How do you claim victory over a show that you didn't even air in the same week as Pip? How does that work out?
> 
> This is what you argued last week.
> 
> 
> 
> *Please explain to me where I'm putting words in your mouth. You said by the latest July of next year. That's your words not mine.*


We all say shit on forum & sometimes we get it wrong.

Thewood said wwe Wednesday would be winning by Wrestlemania & to his credit he's owned those comments & admitted he got it wrong

Just a few days ago you said aew trumping raw is wishful thinking

By not admitting you got it wrong hurts your credibility more than denying it.


----------



## bdon

Pippen94 said:


> We all say shit on forum & sometimes we get it wrong.
> 
> Thewood said wwe Wednesday would be winning by Wrestlemania & to his credit he's owned those comments & admitted he got it wrong
> 
> Just a few days ago you said aew trumping raw is wishful thinking
> 
> By not admitting you got it wrong hurts your credibility more than denying it.


But he isn’t wrong. If you want to argue demo numbers based on Showbuzz, then you have to also argue weekly numbers based on Showbuzz’s weekly calendar schedule.

By that metric, they didn’t win.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

The argument of "Is this a win for AEW or not" is entirely irrelevant. Who gives a shit.

The story is one company is falling, and the other is rising, it'll be interesting to see if AEW's rise these past 4 weeks will be sustainable, you'd have to think they are going to be down significantly this week, but anything above a .38 is pretty good, and if they consistently can stay at that level, they have grown their base live audience off Winter is Coming.

They were consistently around a .32, so if they maintain .35-.37 that's decent, .38+ is good, and over a .40 should be seen as excellent.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

the demo win is anecdotal

it is not the first time either - just a 'feelsgood'

personally I won't be satisfied and crowing on here like no tomorrow until they stuff Raw's shit in on the hallowed overall number - and then I won't care if it is a 'wrong week' - it'll be dancing in the streets with my fat ass

edit> and on that day (screenshot this MFers) I reserve the right to be hypocritical and say 'THE OVERALL NUMBERS MATTER THE MOST!'    

Edit edit> this will be happening in 2021


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the demo win is anecdotal
> 
> it is not the first time either - just a 'feelsgood'
> 
> personally I won't be satisfied and crowing on here like no tomorrow until they stuff Raw's shit in on the hallowed overall number - and then I won't care if it is a 'wrong week' - it'll be dancing in the streets with my fat ass


They will only beat Raw by Raw falling to their level.

So, unless you’re dancing for similar reasons (have you hugged your “Fuck Vince McMahon” today?), then I don’t know how you’d celebrate AEW winning by default.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Really, it's just sad how far RAW and WWE as a whole has fallen given their talent roster, but the closer WWE and AEW get to one another is hopefully beneficial to the industry and the talent can negotiate better deals when the time comes. 

AEW just needs to focus on maintaining as much of that new audience as they can, it's all for nothing if they just fall back down to a .32, the rating last week was an aberration, it's highly unlikely it'll be the norm, at least not for the time being.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

bdon said:


> They will only beat Raw by Raw falling to their level.


If AEW consistently can do a .45(highly unlikely at this stage of the game), it's a combination of one side falling and another side rising and an intersection happening.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> They will only beat Raw by Raw falling to their level.
> 
> So, unless you’re dancing for similar reasons (have you hugged your “Fuck Vince McMahon” today?), then I don’t know how you’d celebrate AEW winning by default.


i'll take any victory

i reserve the right to be biased


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> We all say shit on forum & sometimes we get it wrong.
> 
> Thewood said wwe Wednesday would be winning by Wrestlemania & to his credit he's owned those comments & admitted he got it wrong
> 
> Just a few days ago you said aew trumping raw is wishful thinking
> 
> By not admitting you got it wrong hurts your credibility more than denying it.


You're comparing shows that didn't air in the same week, looking for a victory. If AEW ratings tomorrow beat Raw's, that's a victory for the week sure. Claiming a victory based on ratings in different weeks isn't a victory.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> You're comparing shows that didn't air in the same week, looking for a victory. If AEW ratings tomorrow beat Raw's, that's a victory for the week sure. Claiming a victory based on ratings in different weeks isn't a victory.


You said aew beating raw was wishful thinking

Most recent editions of both shows did a 0.45 & 0.41 respectively

Is it still wishful thinking??!


----------



## bdon

Pippen94 said:


> You said aew beating raw was wishful thinking
> 
> Most recent editions of both shows did a 0.45 & 0.41 respectively
> 
> Is it still wishful thinking??!


It hasn’t occurred yet, so yes, it is wishful thinking that seems likely to occur at some point. 


RelivingTheShadow said:


> If AEW consistently can do a .45(highly unlikely at this stage of the game), it's a combination of one side falling and another side rising and an intersection happening.


Agreed, but I am expecting .35 or less. Last week’s show was a massive letdown.


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> It hasn’t occurred yet, so yes, it is wishful thinking that seems likely to occur at some point.


Nice contradiction in terms


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> You said aew beating raw was wishful thinking
> 
> Most recent editions of both shows did a 0.45 & 0.41 respectively
> 
> Is it still wishful thinking??!


For what you argued which is 



Pippen94 said:


> Aew growing every week 0.37, 0.42 & now 0.45.
> Projections to catch raw have speed up - so close now.
> *At this rate will become no.1 wrestling show on cable sometime in first half of next year*


Yes it's still wishful thinking. As said last week you're taking a short set of data for AEW and making a huge leap. AEW has had times were it climbed, then times when it went down. What happens if this week AEW drops back down and it's below Raw this week? Then what.


----------



## bdon

Pippen94 said:


> Nice contradiction in terms


You are the one who champions Showbuzz’s demo numbers vs overall numbers. Likewise, Showbuzz does not compare numbers outside of calendar weeks.

Be fucking consistent...


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

bdon said:


> It hasn’t occurred yet, so yes, it is wishful thinking that seems likely to occur at some point.
> 
> Agreed, but I am expecting .35 or less. Last week’s show was a massive letdown.


.35 would be a bit disappointing, but not the end of the world. 

There was a stretch in November they were doing .30/.31 every week, you hope at the very least they've climbed up from that rut.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

RapShepard said:


> Yes it's still wishful thinking. As said last week you're taking a short set of data for AEW and making a huge leap. AEW has had times were it climbed, then times when it went down. What happens if this week AEW drops back down and it's below Raw this week? Then what.


Not wishful thinking at all given the trajectory of both shows, RAW has consistently been declining in 18-49 all year outside of the minor initial bump the Thunderdome gave them, while AEW fell when the pandemic hit and risen up since then.

It's really a formality that AEW will eventually beat RAW in 18-49, that is unless RAW makes a seismic shift in how they present their show.


----------



## RapShepard

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Not wishful thinking at all given the trajectory of both shows, RAW has consistently been declining in 18-49 all year outside of the minor initial bump the Thunderdome gave them, while AEW fell when the pandemic hit and risen up since then.
> 
> It's really a formality that AEW will eventually beat RAW in 18-49, that is unless RAW makes a seismic shift in how they present their show.


But given the trajectory AEW has bounced up and down all year. They've had a nice rise the last few weeks. But that trajectory is back down if say the demo goes down this week. Until they raise the overall a decent amount, them consistently being the number 1 wrestling show in the demo weekly like @Pippen94 is predicting is wishful thinking.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

RapShepard said:


> But given the trajectory AEW has bounced up and down all year. They've had a nice rise the last few weeks. But that trajectory is back down if say the demo goes down this week. Until they raise the overall a decent amount, them consistently being the number 1 wrestling show in the demo weekly like @Pippen94 is predicting is wishful thinking.


AEW bounces up and down but they consistently have risen their floor where as WWE breaks their floor lower and lower.

Majority of this board probably considered the .30-.32 numbers they were getting in October and November to be bad, given they were down from the August/September numbers, but .30-.32 was a rating everyone would be celebrating in April/May/June.

WWE on the other hand continues to go lower and lower, and even if AEW goes up/down, ultimately, their floor will be higher than WWE.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> But given the trajectory AEW has bounced up and down all year. They've had a nice rise the last few weeks. But that trajectory is back down if say the demo goes down this week. Until they raise the overall a decent amount, them consistently being the number 1 wrestling show in the demo weekly like @Pippen94 is predicting is wishful thinking.


You can't see the forest for the trees; ratings fluctuate week to week but long term aew steadily climbing while raw is dramatically declining.

"Wishful thinking likely to happen" is funny in itself but may be the biggest copout in history of forum to avoid admitting you got it wrong


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> You are the one who champions Showbuzz’s demo numbers vs overall numbers. Likewise, Showbuzz does not compare numbers outside of calendar weeks.
> 
> Be fucking consistent...


Not wishful thinking if it's likely to happen.

Not wishful thinking if it already HAPPENED!!


----------



## RapShepard

RelivingTheShadow said:


> AEW bounces up and down but they consistently have risen their floor where as WWE breaks their floor lower and lower.
> 
> Majority of this board probably considered the .30-.32 numbers they were getting in October and November to be bad, given they were down from the August/September numbers, but .30-.32 was a rating everyone would be celebrating in April/May/June.
> 
> WWE on the other hand continues to go lower and lower, and even if AEW goes up/down, ultimately, their floor will be higher than WWE.


But this is also a trend for WWE every year. At some point they have a huge drop one week. Then they build back up to a new standard level, rinse repeat. AEW is going to have to only rise to catch them permanently.



Pippen94 said:


> You can't see the forest for the trees; ratings fluctuate week to week but long term aew steadily climbing while raw is dramatically declining.
> 
> "Wishful thinking likely to happen" is funny in itself but may be the biggest copout in history of forum to avoid admitting you got it wrong


Again remember last week the Raw that aired in the same week as Dynamite best them in demo. You're trying to get a point by using different week of demos.



















Pippen94 said:


> Not wishful thinking if it's likely to happen.
> 
> Not wishful thinking if it already HAPPENED!!


But it didn't happen yet. No matter how much you want to say it did. Remember one show happened last week. The other this week. Just hope tonight's show kills it so you have an actual victory


----------



## bdon

Pippen94 said:


> Not wishful thinking if it's likely to happen.
> 
> Not wishful thinking if it already HAPPENED!!


Ask Showbuzz which wrestling show was ranked higher last week.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> But this is also a trend for WWE every year. At some point they have a huge drop one week.


That's some bull jive. Show us this statistical occurrence of one show tanking per year - should be easy as would stand out on every yearly graph. 
Wwe been breaking record for lowest rated episode throughout year. This no one off - it's how you say; a trend


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> That's some bull jive. Show us this statistical occurrence of one show tanking per year - should be easy as would stand out on every yearly graph.
> Wwe been breaking record for lowest rated episode throughout year. This no one off - it's how you say; a trend











WWE RAW Draws New All-Time Low In Total Viewers And Key Demo


Monday's live WWE TLC go-home edition of RAW, featuring the final build for Sunday's pay-per-view, drew an average of 1.527 million viewers on the USA…




www.wrestlinginc.com





Look at how that chart goes up and down then levels out.


----------



## fabi1982

Seems like the Kenny/AEW effect already fades out for Impact.


----------



## RapShepard

fabi1982 said:


> Seems like the Kenny/AEW effect already fades out for Impact.


I blame Impact more so, that show last week wasn't good for first time or returning viewers


----------



## fabi1982

Especially seeing the demo going from 0.08 to 0.04 seems like you are right. None of the new eyes stayed.


----------



## Mr316

Impact is a dead product. Everything about it sucks. It blows my mind that Tony would agree to partner with them.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Is anyone going to make the argument that WWE RAW went up against something much more popular because that's the go to argument for most AEW fans when The Dub underperforms.

"B-B-But the news!'


----------



## Klitschko

Chip with them truth bombs.


----------



## Cult03

The Definition of Technician said:


> Nobody cares. RAW should be beating AEW, AEW shouldn't be close to RAW that is much bigger, which is on a Monday night (historically better night for wrestling) and has no direct competition. Nobody takes it with outrage, we just laugh because you feel the need to point to the obvious that everyone knows. Stay mad while we celebrate small wins.


Wasn't Raw going up against football? What was AEW going against? Real Housewives? I feel like if we are making claims like this we have to be honest. AEW's roster is closer to Raw's than it is to NXT. This is what we have meant when we say AEW should be doing better, I know you won't like that though.


----------



## Not Lying

Cult03 said:


> Wasn't Raw going up against football? What was AEW going against? Real Housewives? I feel like if we are making claims like this we have to be honest. AEW's roster is closer to Raw's than it is to NXT. *This is what we have meant when we say AEW should be doing better*, I know you won't like that though.


I'm not the one setting unrealistic expectations so I can shit on the company at every turn whenever they don't meet some ridiculously high standard. No, AEW shouldn't be close to RAW. 
While almost everyone, whether they watch it or not, would know what RAW (WWE) is, most wouldn't know of AEW, and yet, here are the numbers.


----------



## Shleppy

This will be draw around 750k


----------



## .christopher.

Mr316 said:


> Impact is a dead product. Everything about it sucks. It blows my mind that Tony would agree to partner with them.


Why does it blow your mind? Tony's a money mark with no brains for the profession.


----------



## Mr316

Wrong thread.


----------



## Mr316

Wrong thread.


----------



## Pippen94

Cult03 said:


> Wasn't Raw going up against football? What was AEW going against? Real Housewives? I feel like if we are making claims like this we have to be honest. AEW's roster is closer to Raw's than it is to NXT. This is what we have meant when we say AEW should be doing better, I know you won't like that though.


Except NFL ratings went down this week so didn't take any wwe fans


----------



## La Parka

Pippen94 said:


> Except NFL ratings went down this week so didn't take any wwe fans


The best game of the nfl season didn’t take any fans away from raw?


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Except NFL ratings went down this week so didn't take any wwe fans


What a nonsensical argument. A quick Google search tells me this game (during COVID) was UP 9% vs the MNF game in the same week last year with a full crowd. It was the ONLY game of the week that was up compared to the same week in 2019.

Meanwhile, RAW this week was one of the worst content-wise of the year. Should be interesting to see it compare to one of the worst Dynamites of the year, that aired tonight.


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> What a nonsensical argument. A quick Google search tells me this game (during COVID) was UP 9% vs the MNF game in the same week last year with a full crowd. It was the ONLY game of the week that was up compared to the same week in 2019.
> 
> Meanwhile, RAW this week was one of the worst content-wise of the year. Should be interesting to see it compare to one of the worst Dynamites of the year, that aired tonight.


Now who's spinning?? last Monday got 14.2 million & this week 12.4


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Now who's spinning?? last Monday got 14.2 million & this week 12.4


Not spinning anything. Comparing week to week 2019 to 2020.

And I am not defending RAW. It was horrible this week. I watched it live and posted in the live thread. Did you? Oh. Did you watch Dynamite this week live and discuss with us in the live thread? Oh. They both sucked.


----------



## Pippen94

La Parka said:


> The best game of the nfl season didn’t take any fans away from raw?


Well, NFL went down from last week too so hard to say they stole wwe fans


----------



## Chip Chipperson

NXT deserves the win this week. Ripley Vs Storm, two women in their twenties going out there and putting Kenny and Joey to shame.


----------



## Cult03

Pippen94 said:


> Except NFL ratings went down this week so didn't take any wwe fans


Except it's not always possible for the same fans to watch the same shows every week. It might be easier for less than 2 million wrestling fans to watch AEW than it is for 14 million to watch football every monday. They're not always the exact same fans viewing, which is another variable that makes the ratings an outdated process.


----------



## Cult03

The Definition of Technician said:


> I'm not the one setting unrealistic expectations so I can shit on the company at every turn whenever they don't meet some ridiculously high standard. No, AEW shouldn't be close to RAW.
> While almost everyone, whether they watch it or not, would know what RAW (WWE) is, most wouldn't know of AEW, and yet, here are the numbers.


I am not setting any expectations other than making me enjoy the show and not piss in my pocket and tell me it's raining. They should be smashing WWE's third (developmental) brand as AEW has numerous ex-WWE main eventers, more similar to Raw's roster. Also when you say "here are the numbers" you mean "here are the distorted numbers created to suit an agenda" because the numbers would simply be the overall number of viewers, preferably worldwide by the way.

Does anyone know which countries AEW Dynamite is played live in? Not streaming


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Except NFL ratings went down this week so didn't take any wwe fans


Monday Night Football was up this week

Last week Monday December 7th Monday Night Football did 2.45 in the demo and 7.7 million viewers

This week Monday December 14th Monday Night Football did 3.57 in the demo and 12.4 million viewers.


----------



## RapShepard

It's unfair to still call NXT developmental. It's the 3rd brand, but they're hardly showing green as grass need polishing talent like they did when they first were getting popular.


----------



## Cult03

RapShepard said:


> It's unfair to still call NXT developmental. It's the 3rd brand, but they're hardly showing green as grass need polishing talent like they did when they first were getting popular.


There was a time when this could be argued but it's a mixture of both. The show is 100% getting most of their roster ready for Raw and Smackdown whilst throwing in a few veterans to help give the roster some experience.


----------



## RapShepard

Cult03 said:


> There was a time when this could be argued but it's a mixture of both. The show is 100% getting most of their roster ready for Raw and Smackdown whilst throwing in a few veterans to help give the roster some experience.


Yeah but these are still experienced vets on TV they may get sent up. But it's not like it's say Booker T's Reality of Wrestling with rookies and little experience wrestlers.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> Monday Night Football was up this week
> 
> Last week Monday December 7th Monday Night Football did 2.45 in the demo and 7.7 million viewers
> 
> This week Monday December 14th Monday Night Football did 3.57 in the demo and 12.4 million viewers.


The ABC-ESPN simulcast of the Dec. 7 “Monday Night Football” game averaged a combined 14.174 million viewers, second for the week. Buffalo’s 34-24 victory over the San Francisco 49ers averaged 7.763 million viewers on ESPN, the most among the week’s cable programs, and 6.411 million on ABC, the network’s most-watched program.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> NXT deserves the win this week. Ripley Vs Storm, two women in their twenties going out there and putting Kenny and Joey to shame.


Fans choose who deserves to rate well


----------



## Cult03

Pippen94 said:


> Fans choose who deserves to rate well


American fans..

What does the rest of the world think?


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> The ABC-ESPN simulcast of the Dec. 7 “Monday Night Football” game averaged a combined 14.174 million viewers, second for the week. Buffalo’s 34-24 victory over the San Francisco 49ers averaged 7.763 million viewers on ESPN, the most among the week’s cable programs, and 6.411 million on ABC, the network’s most-watched program.


So now you've gone from cable ratings to network simulcast (which are separate charts)... Is it fair to bring in SmackDown now or no?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I can't wait to see what spin Pippen comes up with tomorrow when AEW drops.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> So now you've gone from cable ratings to network simulcast (which are separate charts)... Is it fair to bring in SmackDown now or no?


Oh, God!!! Just own it when you're wrong


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Oh, God!!! Just own it when you're wrong


Pippen in this thread you've combined ratings from different weeks. Now different charts. And I'm the one who needs to own something.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> I can't wait to see what spin Pippen comes up with tomorrow when AEW drops.


He’s already started his argument by saying ratings go up and down.


----------



## The Wood

Lol, comparing across weeks is just weak. Let’s take this week’s AEW’s rating and compare it to this week’s Raw, yeah? As Raw goes, so tends to AEW, so I’m thinking AEW is down this week too.

Another lol is completely ignoring a football game which seemed to draw MASSIVE numbers. And look, I’m the first person to criticise the “people would rather watch something else” excuse. But this seems anomalous. A giant AEW compared to an obviously handicapped Raw across weeks.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Lol, comparing across weeks is just weak. Let’s take this week’s AEW’s rating and compare it to this week’s Raw, yeah? As Raw goes, so tends to AEW, so I’m thinking AEW is down this week too.
> 
> Another lol is completely ignoring a football game which seemed to draw MASSIVE numbers. And look, I’m the first person to criticise the “people would rather watch something else” excuse. But this seems anomalous. A giant AEW compared to an obviously handicapped Raw across weeks.


If it was good, people would watch. Don’t try that shit now, haha


----------



## fabi1982

I totally expect a RAW win this week, as they won last week. If AEW gets anything above 0.37 they should be fucking celebrate, because THIS WAS A BAD SHOW.


----------



## kamaro011

fabi1982 said:


> I totally expect a RAW win this week, as they won last week. If AEW gets anything above 0.37 they should be fucking celebrate, because THIS WAS A BAD SHOW.


Both Show is Terrible this week.


----------



## Not Lying

Cult03 said:


> I am not setting any expectations other than making me enjoy the show and not piss in my pocket and tell me it's raining. They should be smashing WWE's third (developmental) brand as AEW has numerous ex-WWE main eventers, more similar to Raw's roster. Also when you say "here are the numbers" you mean "here are the distorted numbers created to suit an agenda" because the numbers would simply be the overall number of viewers, preferably worldwide by the way.


lol, Then if they've been pissing in your pocket for a year and you're still watching and complaining 24/7, you're someone who likes the smell of piss but refuse to admit it.

AEW "shouldn't" be doing anything YOU SAY, can you stop being so damn entitled. Even if they were losing to a brand that has a 9 years headstart and backed by the biggest promotion in the world.
The only reason the ratings are kind of close is because AEW is not for the 50+ year old boring fuckers , they are targeting a specific demo. NXT/WWE appeal more to the 50+ year olds. Define "smashing" NXT? by how much should they be beating them?

We don't have the full numbers, and we won't have it anytime soon. We know they've been doing well in UK and Brazil for example.

What is this distorted shit. You care about overall viewers, I'll take 1 person from the 12-34 age group over 3 people 50+. Maybe AEW does too.



Two Sheds said:


> To be clear, I am not accusing the guy of changing numbers of just making things up. But people like him in those positions are going to be able to spin things in a way to make some things sound more important or less important based on their agenda. It is what they do. I am not saying he is some nefarious or bad person, but his job is to make AEW look good. So I have no interest in listening to spin doctors like that. I want to see the actual data for myself. That is all I am saying. People (not you) linking to someone like that and saying things like "SEE, this proves blah blah blah" make me laugh. None of that proves anything. They release the internal numbers they want to when they help their cause. Nothing more.


To follow up on this with you because I continued watching.






He discussed MJF/OC at 48:10, he shows us the graph for that 15min stretch, and he takes out the time of commercials and shows us how purely the match evolved (continuously gaining viewers with a significant rise in the last 5min). We can see the data in the video, but I doubt AEW is going to start releasing their minute by minute breakdowns anytime soon (nor should they, many talents would have too much negotiation power and manyy could get their feeling hurt and get demotivated).

They chose the past week because it was a good week for them. My point here being, that for a video with Wrestlenomics (so far credible site for data), and the VP of business strategy of AEW, it was nice of them to show us how they analyze and breakdown the ratings.

I agree with you that the part "this would prove that XX", because ratings don't prove shit unless it's recurrent and we get the exact data each-time to compare, but for this video in particular and the results here, i'm inclined to believe them and appreciate the gesture from the VP.
You don't like OC and that's fine, but you shouldn't be surprised if the people that enjoy him bring up the argument "he sells the most shirts" and "He's doing good numbers", considering that's what AEW tells us, considering we see him being utilised, and the quarterly numbers (which aren't accurate), have been mostly hit with him, Especially after the 2nd part of his feud with Jericho.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Should be 0.40 

should be 900+


----------



## 3venflow

NXT had a four minute overrun which could make it closer than expected this week.

My prediction for this week is around 800k with 0.38 demo.


----------



## Erik.

I'll go with 810k with a 0.37 demo.


----------



## Not Lying

845K 0.36


----------



## La Parka

750


----------



## Klitschko

850k for me. I know its high, but its usually the following week after a bad show that suffers. This week they might still get a decent rating, but next will be in the 700's for sure.


----------



## Erik.

Klitschko said:


> 850k for me. I know its high, but its usually the following week after a bad show that suffers. This week they might still get a decent rating, but next will be in the 700's for sure.


Of course it will. It starts at 10pm.


----------



## Prosper

835K, 0.38


----------



## Klitschko

Erik. said:


> Of course it will. It starts at 10pm.


Really, why so late?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Klitschko said:


> Really, why so late?


only after the NBA game is finished


----------



## Erik.

Klitschko said:


> Really, why so late?


Its on after the NBA


----------



## TKO Wrestling

.37 is my prediction. We shall see.


----------



## RapShepard

909k .39


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

845k at a .36 is what I'm going to go with.



The Wood said:


> Another lol is completely ignoring a football game which seemed to draw MASSIVE numbers. And look, I’m the first person to criticise the “people would rather watch something else” excuse. But this seems anomalous. A giant AEW compared to an obviously handicapped Raw across weeks.


Football drew more viewers the week prior.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

In Raws defense, they have a lot going on as far as missing Lesnar. I don't think they ever imagined that he would be gone this long. Brock Lesnar is Raw's Roman Reigns, huge loss not having him.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> 909k .39


mmmm - think this‘ll be correct

close to my own as well


----------



## fabi1982

RelivingTheShadow said:


> 845k at a .36 is what I'm going to go with.
> 
> 
> 
> Football drew more viewers the week prior.


But not a 3.57 demo


----------



## Mr316

Anything under 900k with Sting being advertised on the show should be considered a complete disappointment. With that being said, they only have themselves to blame. Last week’s show wasn’t good and last night has to be the worst two hours of wrestling I’ve ever seen.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

fabi1982 said:


> But not a 3.57 demo


It was a simulcast, the combined number was close to a 4.0 I believe.


----------



## fabi1982

RelivingTheShadow said:


> It was a simulcast, the combined number was close to a 4.0 I believe.


Ok didnt know that, then the 05x the week prior is even more impressive from WWE


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> If it was good, people would watch. Don’t try that shit now, haha


Look, I don’t have a major disagreement here. As I said, I do hate that excuse, but, BUT the NFL being huge is more compelling to me than the politics stuff. Politics being huge meant more people watched television. The NFL being huge meant, possibly, that more people switched over.

Taking Raw in that week and comparing it to an AEW from the previous week that didn’t even have strong NXT competition (they basically have let them go unopposed as an experiment) is just not honest, in my opinion.

By all means compare this week to this week. AEW apparently started later? That’s going to be a built-in excuse. It’s just weird to me that shitty, shitty Raw gets judged as this complete and focused effort without any consideration to circumstance, whereas AEW’s bottom is covered and its top-loaded efforts aren’t recognised as such.

If AEW gets a good number this week, good for them. It will be what it is. But let’s wait for that number to drop, because usually a bad week for WWE means a bad week for AEW.


----------



## Ozell Gray

The Wood said:


> Look, I don’t have a major disagreement here. As I said, I do hate that excuse, but, BUT the NFL being huge is more compelling to me than the politics stuff. Politics being huge meant more people watched television. The NFL being huge meant, possibly, that more people switched over.
> 
> Taking Raw in that week and comparing it to an AEW from the previous week that didn’t even have strong NXT competition (they basically have let them go unopposed as an experiment) is just not honest, in my opinion.
> 
> By all means compare this week to this week. AEW apparently started later? That’s going to be a built-in excuse. It’s just weird to me that shitty, shitty Raw gets judged as this complete and focused effort without any consideration to circumstance, whereas AEW’s bottom is covered and its top-loaded efforts aren’t recognised as such.
> 
> If AEW gets a good number this week, good for them. It will be what it is. But let’s wait for that number to drop, because usually a bad week for WWE means a bad week for AEW.


Spot on Wood. Good post. They're comparing this week's Raw numbers to a previous week's Dynamite to push a false narrative. I've never seen this sort of desperation before. Since when can a show "beat" another show that aired two different weeks? The lengths that some go to for AEW are beyond comprehension. This week's Dynamite numbers will be down but I know already that you're going to have those in here claiming "it's still good and you can't compare Dynamite to Raw because longetivity."


----------



## RiverFenix

Why doesn't AEW use the jumbotron over the entrance to show advertisements on during matches. I think it's a sneaky smart way to raise revenue and could be a way to have less commercials during shows. Given the hardcam faces the stage in the era of no fans in the stands it could be a decent income generator.


----------



## The Wood

Ozell Gray said:


> Spot on Wood. Good post. They're comparing this week's Raw numbers to a previous week's Dynamite to push a false narrative. I've never seen this sort of desperation before. Since when can a show "beat" another show that aired two different weeks? The lengths that some go to for AEW are beyond comprehension. This week's Dynamite numbers will be down but I know already that you're going to have those in here claiming "it's still good and you can't compare Dynamite to Raw because longetivity."


Absolutely. Meltzer and Alvarez are disgusting shills. They’ll take any number they can spin to make AEW look good instead of actually focusing on the health of the industry. They’ve never compared a Nitro to a previous week’s Raw. At least not as far as I know.

If Dynamite does bad this week, I don’t expect it to be compared to Raw. I don’t expect it to be put into context. It will be “well they didn’t have their usual start time” and the story pumped will still be AEW “beating” Raw through time.

I hate wrestling reporting so much.


----------



## Ozell Gray

I've heard Dave Meltzer and Bryan Alvarez are getting paid by AEW to make them look good. I believe it too because they'll spoil anything for WWE but they won't do it for AEW even when they know the spoilers.


----------



## holy

My prediction for the rating this week: 800k range.


----------



## The Wood

Ozell Gray said:


> I've heard Dave Meltzer and Bryan Alvarez are getting paid by AEW to make them look good. I believe it too because they'll spoil anything for WWE but they won't do it for AEW even when they know the spoilers.


I’m on the fence. I would have dismissed it and chalked it up to optimism and them pushing a narrative for their own enjoyment and to their base. But it’s become SO prevalent. They won’t say anything bad and will go out of their way to spin. It’s almost too obvious for them to be paid. But I’m probably overthinking it.


----------



## Ozell Gray

The Wood said:


> I’m on the fence. I would have dismissed it and chalked it up to optimism and them pushing a narrative for their own enjoyment and to their base. But it’s become SO prevalent. They won’t say anything bad and will go out of their way to spin. It’s almost too obvious for them to be paid. But I’m probably overthinking it.


I don't think you're overthinking it at all. You're where I was at first where I thought they were just doing it to rule people up or just to troll WWE fans but I've come to this conclusion that they're getting paid in the last 6 months. The overly positive attitude is the main reason why.


----------



## Klitschko

I dont think they are getting paid by AEW. If they were you can bet your ass that Meltzer would have rated the latest Omega/Moxley match at least 5 stars, just to make Omega look even better and to get his own name mentioned even more on Dynamite. But are they biased as hell? Yes they are.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1339677590265708544

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1339677590265708544
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm getting good at predicting these things, although the demo is lower than I guessed! I also said NXT's overrun could make it closer than expected.


----------



## Mr316

Significant drop. No one should be surprised.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Horrendous number, NXT beat AEW in M12-34

Was expecting a drop, didn't expect it to be this big.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Kross da draw.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Booooooo! Lower than what it should be!


----------



## Shock Street

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1339677590265708544
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


oh dear


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Horrendous number, NXT beat AEW in M12-34
> 
> Was expecting a drop, didn't expect it to be this big.


that’s a first - not great


----------



## bdon

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1339677590265708544
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hahahahahahahahahah 

hahahahahahahahaha


----------



## Mr316

More shows like last night and it will keep going down.


----------



## RapShepard

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Why doesn't AEW use the jumbotron over the entrance to show advertisements on during matches. I think it's a sneaky smart way to raise revenue and could be a way to have less commercials during shows. Given the hardcam faces the stage in the era of no fans in the stands it could be a decent income generator.


Because as advertiser you wouldn't pay for that. There's no sound to it and little focus on the Jumbotron


----------



## RainmakerV2

Its called mo men tum Khan. How does the most badass pro wrestler in the world (according to AEW) lose his belt in the biggest screwjob ever (according to AEW commentators), and just go into hiding for weeks and let other people get title shots? Lol


----------



## bdon

This rating is what happens when you put on last week’s show. Wait til next week’s number!

hahaha

900k and .37 predictions after watching last week. Hahahahahah

Goddamn this is fucking hilarious. More Nightmare Family, Cody, and Dustin please!!! Yes!! Yes!!!


----------



## Erik.

Erik. said:


> I'll go with 810k with a 0.37 demo.


Damn, so close 

3rd in the demo. Deeeeeeeeeeeecent, considering.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*They lost 200,000 viewers because they got complacent and thought Sting would be enough to carry this bullshit card full of meaningless tag team matches. You can't have a blockbuster show one week and then announce complete trash the next week and expect to maintain viewership. 

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1339677618816208896*


----------



## Ozell Gray

Viewership is way down from last week. They still can't retain an audience and thats a big problem they have. They spike for a week or 2 then it goes back down.


----------



## RapShepard

The NXT mole needs to return to NXT and figure out the sauce to getting a better young demo lol


----------



## Mr316

I see partnering with a pretty much dead company did wonders for them! Such a smart move also to bring in Sting and then pull off two of your most boring shows ever.


----------



## Ozell Gray

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *They lost 200,000 viewers because they got complacent and thought Sting would be enough to carry this bullshit card full of meaningless tag team matches. You can't have a blockbuster show one week and then announce complete trash the next week and expect to maintain viewership.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1339677618816208896*


They lost 189,000 viewers actually.


----------



## 3venflow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Booooooo! Lower than what it should be!


I'd disagree and you probably know I enjoy AEW. Far too many undercard level talent and young boy tag teams thrown on to the same card. Not one 'marquee' match on the show after Kenny vs. Mox and MJF vs. OC the weeks before.

If they want to be ruthless with the ratings, then the big players should be on TV every week in compelling segments or matches. Moxley, Omega, Cody, Jericho, Brodie, Miro, MJF, Sting, Hangman, Archer and the better tag teams (Top Flight, Acclaimed, Varsity Blondes, Private Party may all have potential but are not national TV level yet - it should be FTR, Bucks, PnP, Lucha Bros who dominate screen time).

Last night's card was weaker than some shows that have done much worse ratings in 2020, that's a carry-over from recent good shows I think though. Momentum is important and next week could drop below 800k because it's again a fairly featureless card except the tag title match (predictable outcome though).


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> This rating is what happens when you put on last week’s show. Wait til next week’s number!
> 
> hahaha
> 
> 900k and .37 predictions after watching last week. Hahahahahah
> 
> Goddamn this is fucking hilarious. More Nightmare Family, Cody, and Dustin please!!! Yes!! Yes!!!


Yeah I predicted a slow trickle down as I assumed folk would still tune in to see where the Kenny and hate to say it Sting stuff would go.


----------



## fabi1982

Hey @Pippen94 anything you want to say about your rant the last three pages? So its 0.41 to 0.32, so RAW even on its lowest ever did 30% more.

Overall an expected rating. They did this to themselfes and there is no one to blame than AEW. And getting close to NXT when they have basically a random show is also not good.

What I learn here is AEW can get a good rating with some packed shows, but seeing the „sting effect“ already worn off is sad.


----------



## bdon

Day 1: “Come have some Wagyu steak at our GRAND OPENING!!!”

Day 2: “Come have some 2 week old bologna! _pause_ Why did everyone choose Taco Bell across the street?”


----------



## RapShepard

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *They lost 200,000 viewers because they got complacent and thought Sting would be enough to carry this bullshit card full of meaningless tag team matches. You can't have a blockbuster show one week and then announce complete trash the next week and expect to maintain viewership.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1339677618816208896*


Telling Alvarez isn't discussing demos in that lol. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1339678848779075584
Dude is hilarious in the trollery


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> Day 1: “Come have some Wagyu steak at our GRAND OPENING!!!”
> 
> Day 2: “Come have some 2 week old bologna! _pause_ Why did everyone choose Taco Bell across the street?”


Side note is Wagyu really that amazing? Not a big steak guy, but curios


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Yeah I predicted a slow trickle down as I assumed folk would still tune in to see where the Kenny and hate to say it Sting stuff would go.


*The January 6th show should spike back to a million, but this format is unsustainable because the shows are on both extremes of the spectrum in terms of excellence and trash with no balance. They need to learn how to hold a couple of things back for the next show instead of blowing their load one week and having nothing for us the next.*


----------



## bdon

I’m fucking rolling at this shit. Pay fucking big bucks to steal eyes for your product by hiring Sting, and you purposely fucking choose to shit yourself in hopes of playing to the fans of Jackass vs the fans of Titanic.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Side note is Wagyu really that amazing? Not a big steak guy, but curios


Pretty fucking phenomenal, bro. There’s a bar and grill by the house - best friend’s parents own it - that offers a Wagyu burger. That taste just hits differently.

Definitely give it a try.


----------



## fabi1982

RapShepard said:


> Side note is Wagyu really that amazing? Not a big steak guy, but curios


Only real wagyu you can eat in japan, because the most stuff you get outside japan is not „real“ wagyu


----------



## RapShepard

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *The January 6th show should spike back to a million, but this format is unsustainable because the shows are on both extremes of the spectrum in terms of excellence and trash with no balance. They need to learn how to hold a couple of things back for the next show instead of blowing their load one week and having nothing for us the next.*


You know as someone who really hated late Spring and Summer when things were dragging I appreciate blowing the load more. But you're right they need more balance. They'd probably just be better served by not overusing the very special episode. But by conditioning everybody into knowing that story movement will happen weekly. Their story telling is too hectic.

Like Kenny is doing stuff with Impact, but that's not on Dynamite. Instead there's a big title match against Fenix in 2 weeks. Who also happens to be in the middle of his own feud with his brother and Pac vs Eddie and Butcher & Blade with Archer randomly in the mix. As I'm typing it surely that will be a 4 way soon lol


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> Pretty fucking phenomenal, bro. There’s a bar and grill by the house - best friend’s parents own it - that offers a Wagyu burger. That taste just hits differently.
> 
> Definitely give it a try.


Will have to look for some


fabi1982 said:


> Only real wagyu you can eat in japan, because the most stuff you get outside japan is not „real“ wagyu


Yeah I heard it's like a special cow and only some places get Wagyu outside Japan. Props to whoever is breeding the golden cow lol


----------



## fabi1982

RapShepard said:


> Will have to look for someYeah I heard it's like a special cow and only some places get Wagyu outside Japan. Props to whoever is breeding the golden cow lol


Its a little different, kobe is the breed, wagyu is the way of raising the cow (or something like that). Thats why most people think they eat kobe and „only“ eat wagye. But as @bdon said, it is a different taste. But dont get me started on kobe beef, thats like eating a piece of heaven


----------



## Klitschko

RapShepard said:


> Telling Alvarez isn't discussing demos in that lol.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1339678848779075584
> Dude is hilarious in the trollery


I was wrong. Hes on their payroll hahahaha. Jesus christ.


----------



## RapShepard

fabi1982 said:


> Its a little different, kobe is the breed, wagyu is the way of raising the cow (or something like that). Thats why most people think they eat kobe and „only“ eat wagye. But as @bdon said, it is a different taste. But dont get me started on kobe beef, thats like eating a piece of heaven


About to youtube this and get myself hungry lol


----------



## Shock Street

Y'all have me reading an article about japanese cows now


----------



## Alright_Mate

Let’s face it, they were bloody lucky to even get 806k after the shit they dished out last night.

One of the worst shows they’ve ever produced.

I sound like a broken record mentioning this word - Consistency.

AEW don't know the meaning of the word.


----------



## bdon

800k fans

2 weeks after Sting and Kenny’s big win

WOOOOOO!!!!


----------



## Shock Street

Alright_Mate said:


> Let’s face it, they were bloody lucky to even get 806k after the shit they dished out last night.
> 
> One of the worst shows they’ve ever produced.
> 
> I sound like a broken record mentioning this word - Consistency.
> 
> AEW don't know the meaning of the word.


I don't know about that. Cody and the Young Bucks *consistently* piss in the faces of the other talent after all.


----------



## Not Lying

I wonder how many fans tuned out in the 2nd hour tired from the many pointless tag matches..


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> I’m fucking rolling at this shit. Pay fucking big bucks to steal eyes for your product by hiring Sting, and you purposely fucking choose to shit yourself in hopes of playing to the fans of Jackass vs the fans of Titanic.


Exactly what we said was going to happen, happened. Weird.


----------



## RiverFenix

RapShepard said:


> Because as advertiser you wouldn't pay for that. There's no sound to it and little focus on the Jumbotron


Advertisers pay for sideline ads in sporting events - on ice and board ads in hockey, baseball has ads behind home plate that rotate through, and those hologram like ads in soccer. In-game ads are becoming more prevalent as fans skip commercial breaks.


----------



## RiverFenix

No Moxley. Omega being more interesting on Impact. Darby has been a bad TNT champ - no mic time, little ring time. Bucks fighting TH2 and The Acclaimed. Shida wrestling on DARK. Now Brandi is preggers and out of any Jade Cargill payoff. Sting being over-exposed already.

Rating was well earned.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Side note is Wagyu really that amazing? Not a big steak guy, but curios


yes - but not all

A5 is the real deal

edit) this is the marbling you want


----------



## RapShepard

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Advertisers pay for sideline ads in sporting events - on ice and board ads in hockey, baseball has ads behind home plate that rotate through, and those hologram like ads in soccer. In-game ads are becoming more prevalent as fans skip commercial breaks.


Yeah, but those can't be anywhere near as much as what you'd pay for a commercial as the commercial gets more focused eyes on it.


----------



## RapShepard

Y'all know a lot about steak, I respect that lol


----------



## Dark Emperor

No surprise. They were never gonna sustain that almost 1m viewership and highest demo of year. 

Like I said, these days when you get a big spike in wrestling because of a specific reason, it generally goes back down to where it was within two or three weeks. 

It is more impressive when there is no major reason for the increase and the show just stays consistently at a decent rating through the fans actually being interested. 

That's why Smackdown is the only successful show rating wise this year imo.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

fabi1982 said:


> Hey @Pippen94 anything you want to say about your rant the last three pages? So its 0.41 to 0.32, so RAW even on its lowest ever did 30% more.
> 
> Overall an expected rating. They did this to themselfes and there is no one to blame than AEW. And getting close to NXT when they have basically a random show is also not good.
> 
> What I learn here is AEW can get a good rating with some packed shows, but seeing the „sting effect“ already worn off is sad.


What is you're goal here? Why do you get high and mighty whenever AEW does what in your mind is poor or 'fails'?

I mean is there something I am not aware of that is having people like you and the others do this shit every day?

Does you're dick grow 3 sizes bigger every time AEW 'fucks up'? Does $1000 magically appear in your bank account?
What is it? Help me out here. Help me with the reasoning you come on here everyday to shit on a product you don't like.

It's maddening.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Officially four weeks in a row where AEW beats its year prior weeks #s. Up 28% in the demo, up 18% in viewership. AEW is rolling.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yes - but not all
> 
> A5 is the real deal
> 
> edit) this is the marbling you want
> 
> View attachment 94933


That looks amazing. Definitely never seen a cut like that in Kroger lol


----------



## Mr316

You bring in Sting and decide to showcase tag teams like Top Flight, Private Party, The Acclaimed, SCU. I’m not blaming the talents but none of them are draws. Moxley should of been all over the last two shows, raising hell after that loss. It could of hold maybe new viewers. Instead... 😂😂😂


----------



## qntntgood

RapShepard said:


> You know as someone who really hated late Spring and Summer when things were dragging I appreciate blowing the load more. But you're right they need more balance. They'd probably just be better served by not overusing the very special episode. But by conditioning everybody into knowing that story movement will happen weekly. Their story telling is too hectic.
> 
> Like Kenny is doing stuff with Impact, but that's not on Dynamite. Instead there's a big title match against Fenix in 2 weeks. Who also happens to be in the middle of his own feud with his brother and Pac vs Eddie and Butcher & Blade with Archer randomly in the mix. As I'm typing it surely that will be a 4 way soon lol


This week's show had no storytelling what so ever but repeated,matches and that's only going to go so far.and right mlw wrestling,is putting on a better show with much less.


----------



## RapShepard

Klitschko said:


> I was wrong. Hes on their payroll hahahaha. Jesus christ.


I need him vs Cornette in a complain off lol


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> Exactly what we said was going to happen, happened. Weird.


Amazing!! After two weeks of big shows a less stacked program does smaller number


----------



## bdon

Mr316 said:


> You bring in Sting and decide to showcase tag teams like Top Flight, Private Party, The Acclaimed, SCU. I’m not blaming the talents but none of them are draws. Moxley should of been all over the last two shows, raising hell after that loss. It could of hold maybe new viewers. Instead... 😂😂😂


Some stupid motherfuckers in AEW production meetings thought these were good ideas.

Hahahahahahah

hahahahahahah


----------



## Pippen94

RelivingTheShadow said:


> Horrendous number, NXT beat AEW in M12-34
> 
> Was expecting a drop, didn't expect it to be this big.


3# overall for night
1# males 18-49


----------



## fabi1982

ripcitydisciple said:


> What is you're goal here? Why do you get high and mighty whenever AEW does what in your mind is poor or 'fails'?
> 
> I mean is there something I am not aware of that is having people like you and the others do this shit every day?
> 
> Does you're dick grow 3 sizes bigger every time AEW 'fucks up'? Does $1000 magically appear in your bank account?
> What is it? Help me out here. Help me with the reasoning you come on here everyday to shit on a product you don't like.
> 
> It's maddening.


I dont do that „every day“ but pippen is a troll and was raging over three pages and fighting against any conclusive comments from me, red and some others saying „you dont compare weeks“, everyone else agreed, even the biggest AEW fans in here, but he couldnt stop trolling.

So maybe just give me that moment and see where he runs with it. Because it was embarrasing and he knew that. Even making fun of red because „he wouldnt say he was wrong“.

Easy as that.

Oh and according to my wife my dick is fine.
And my bank account doesnt need another 1000€. So you can breathe again. Oh and its your not you‘re, but I guess this is part of your gimmick?!


----------



## Pippen94

Mr316 said:


> You bring in Sting and decide to showcase tag teams like Top Flight, Private Party, The Acclaimed, SCU. I’m not blaming the talents but none of them are draws. Moxley should of been all over the last two shows, raising hell after that loss. It could of hold maybe new viewers. Instead... 😂😂😂


If you've watched program over past year that is strategy company has taken; giving young talent exposure & building to bigger episodes which have done increasingly large numbers


----------



## Chan Hung

And....it's not a surprise the number was low 800's. I said this in the AEW thread recently that this number would be lower, the show was absolutely one of the worst AEW show's ive ever seen. They are lucky to stay at 800.


----------



## RapShepard

qntntgood said:


> This week's show had no storytelling what so ever but repeated,matches and that's only going to go so far.and right mlw wrestling,is putting on a better show with much less.


Haven't caught MLW before. With me watching WWE and AEW I'm pretty wrestled out, heard good things about them though. But yeah some storylines really could've had better progress last night.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Shocked at the number of folks on here that thought last night was terrible. I have seen way worse Dynamites.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Pippen94 said:


> 3# overall for night
> 1# males 18-49


NXT won Males 12-34. I can cherry pick age groups too Mr. Meltzer.


----------



## Shock Street

Chan Hung said:


> And....it's not a surprise the number was low 800's. I said this in the AEW thread recently that this number would be lower, the show was absolutely one of the worst AEW show's ive ever seen. They are lucky to stay at 800.


Oh yeah, next weeks gonna be something like 700k I bet. Usually the bad show affects the next week more.


----------



## 3venflow

It's one of TK's faults... he's a nice guy who wants to give everyone some spotlight, their moment. But it eats into ratings and also consistency. Wrestlers come and go all the time. The Dustin/QT vs B&B match is a good example. So QT was given his 'Wrestlemania' moment by jumping off the ladder in the Bunkhouse Match to pin The Blade. End of feud. Yet where is QT now? Nowhere. Where is Blade now? In a featured Dynamite feud. So was it worth it? Was it worth giving Austin Gunn his moment in the sun weeks ago in a Dynamite main event only for him to take up his cheerleading role at ringside again after?

If TK is happy with this stability - and TNT are happy, it's clear - then ok. But if TK wants AEW to grow, then he needs to be more efficient and ruthless. Miro should not be a 'cameo' appearance on Dynamite, he should be one of the building blocks. Champions should not disappear after losing their belts. The Dynamite cast should be high-level. Putting a world renowned wrestler like Kenny against a bingo hall out of shape scrub like Janela in a Dynamite main event is like pairing a fine steak with a coat of tomato ketchup.


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Amazing!! After two weeks of big shows a less stacked program does smaller number


The week after they put on a bad show, the rating tanks. Not rocket science.


----------



## 10gizzle

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yes - but not all
> 
> A5 is the real deal
> 
> edit) this is the marbling you want
> 
> View attachment 94933


This is essentially the best of the best.

@RapShepard If you want a cool look into A5 wagyu and how it looks, check out Guga Foods on YouTube.

Just some dude who's obsessed with meat/A5 wagyu and cooks it in every conceivable way.


----------



## Pippen94

RainmakerV2 said:


> NXT won Males 12-34. I can cherry pick age groups too Mr. Meltzer.


That demo was pretty much a wash; overall 12-34 was clear victory for aew. Interesting how old wwe Wednesday audience is - 100k gain but only slight increase in demo. Average age must be exceedingly high


----------



## 3venflow

Da list!

Isn't 0.30 very high for AEW in the 50+?


----------



## RiverFenix

Shock Street said:


> Oh yeah, next weeks gonna be something like 700k I bet. Usually the bad show affects the next week more.


Next weeks show will air at around 10:30 pm after the NBA game.


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> 3# overall for night
> 1# males 18-49


So who won this week?


















Pippen94 said:


> Amazing!! After two weeks of big shows a less stacked program does smaller number


Excuses they had Omega in a match, Sting appearance, Inner Circle all together, and Cody on.


----------



## Klitschko

Two Sheds said:


> The week after they put on a bad show, the rating tanks. Not rocket science.


Can you imagine next week? I think NXT might actually win it.


----------



## CtrlAltDel

Janella should never main event a TV show ever again.


----------



## RapShepard

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Next weeks show will air at around 10:30 pm after the NBA game.


That should do decent all things considered since it's Christmas and most people will be home


----------



## RapShepard

Klitschko said:


> Can you imagine next week? I think NXT might actually win it.


Hell no NXT is their bitch for real lol


----------



## Aedubya

Wrestling Inc website headlines are very anti AEW, why is that?


----------



## fabi1982

RapShepard said:


> That should do decent all things considered since it's Christmas and most people will be home


And I remember last „after NBA“ Dynamite did quite well also for the time slot.


----------



## 3venflow

From Canada:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1339676236524756992


----------



## RapShepard

Aedubya said:


> Wrestling Inc website headlines are very anti AEW, why is that?


Saying they had a big drop and that Jim Ross comments caused controversy is anti-AEW?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ripcitydisciple said:


> What is you're goal here? Why do you get high and mighty whenever AEW does what in your mind is poor or 'fails'?
> 
> I mean is there something I am not aware of that is having people like you and the others do this shit every day?
> 
> Does you're dick grow 3 sizes bigger every time AEW 'fucks up'? Does $1000 magically appear in your bank account?
> What is it? Help me out here. Help me with the reasoning you come on here everyday to shit on a product you don't like.
> 
> It's maddening.


there is a legend that for every neg AEW gets, somewhere somebodies balls finally drop

i read it in a science journal


----------



## One Shed

Klitschko said:


> Can you imagine next week? I think NXT might actually win it.


They will but because AEW will not air until around two hours late so next week does not count.


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> From Canada:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1339676236524756992


Rulers of Canada!


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> The week after they put on a bad show, the rating tanks. Not rocket science.


So just by coincidence ppv fallout shows & episodes with heavily promoted debuts do bigger numbers?? Some episodes more stacked than others. Last night wasn't stacked


----------



## RapShepard

fabi1982 said:


> And I remember last „after NBA“ Dynamite did quite well also for the time slot.


NBA is a good lead in plus folk will be relaxed after a day of gifts food and shit. They probably stay around their normal average. Don't see no crazy shit like 600k or below


----------



## RT1981

lmao told you aew fucked up last week by putting on a shit show after that huge show the week before.those new fans they picked up 2 weeks ago are not sticking around after that garbage last night expect it to drop more next week aew shit the bed and they deserve to lose fans for it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

10gizzle said:


> This is essentially the best of the best.
> 
> @RapShepard If you want a cool look into A5 wagyu and how it looks, check out Guga Foods on YouTube.
> 
> Just some dude who's obsessed with meat/A5 wagyu and cooks it in every conceivable way.


ahhh! You dig Guga? 

That dude got me into Sous Vide (his sous vide everything channel)

boy,


----------



## RainmakerV2

Pippen94 said:


> That demo was pretty much a wash; overall 12-34 was clear victory for aew. Interesting how old wwe Wednesday audience is - 100k gain but only slight increase in demo. Average age must be exceedingly high



Of course its a wash and doesn't matter when AEW does poorly. Like, of course. Lol


----------



## RapShepard

10gizzle said:


> This is essentially the best of the best.
> 
> @RapShepard If you want a cool look into A5 wagyu and how it looks, check out Guga Foods on YouTube.
> 
> Just some dude who's obsessed with meat/A5 wagyu and cooks it in every conceivable way.


Funny enough was watching a how to make Wal-Mart steaks edible when I seen this [emoji23]. The YouTube rabbit hole is nuts lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Hell no NXT is their bitch for real lol


nxt should win next week / aew is on only after 10


----------



## izhack111

Next week it will drop again..the show is fucking boring lazy booking with tag team matches and just 0 good storylines


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Funny enough was watching a how to make Wal-Mart steaks edible when I seen this [emoji23]. The YouTube rabbit hole is nuts lol


sous vide brother

it will change your life


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> Da list!
> 
> Isn't 0.30 very high for AEW in the 50+?
> 
> View attachment 94934


They're coming for NXTs bread and butter


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> nxt should win next week / aew is on only after 10


Aew may still take demo tho


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> So just by coincidence ppv fallout shows & episodes with heavily promoted debuts do bigger numbers?? Some episodes more stacked than others. Last night wasn't stacked


The rating reflects the quality of the previous show a lot. That is why LAST week did a much better ratings than the week before with the heavily promoted "Winter is Coming" and the big title match. THAT episode delivered great quality with Sting debuting and Kenny winning so the week after which did not have a title match did better based on the hype created there. That is why it was very easy to predict this week would be way down due to last week really sucking. They managed to get a ton of eyeballs for last week and they delivered some Tofurkey. I really do not understand how difficult this is to see.


----------



## 10gizzle

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ahhh! You dig Guga?
> 
> That dude got me into Sous Vide (his sous vide everything channel)
> 
> boy,


Anytime the wifey asks if I wanna make some interesting new dish, my response:

LET'S DO ITTTTTT (in a very, very Brazilian accent lol)



RapShepard said:


> Funny enough was watching a how to make Wal-Mart steaks edible when I seen this [emoji23]. The YouTube rabbit hole is nuts lol


It is - but as long as you don't waste your time watching things that literally upset you, make you mad, or creative negative thoughts - I find that rabbit hole to be a beautiful thing.


----------



## validreasoning

The whole Sting stuff is lame as fuck. I mean why is he there? Whats the end goal? It's almost as bad as that last Steve Austin appearance on Raw with the cue-cards.

Omega angle was never going to work. Wrestling fans see right through it that's it's just a pro wrestling angle and cannot suspend disbelief. Would be equivalent if HHH won NXT title and fucked off to MLW.

Biggest angles last 25 years people actually "believed" at least part of it was real. You could buy that Nash and Hall were sent by Vince or that Vince was a maniacal power hungry owner that wanted to fuck over his employees or that Punk was really leaving WWE when his contract expired or that Bryan was really being held down by management and they would do everything in their power to stop his push.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> nxt should win next week / aew is on only after 10


They'll be going up against Lakers vs Mavs though, so I could see them still losing. I know I'll be watching the Lakers game. Them being on the network makes it so easy to miss. Unless it's a Dunne or Priest.


----------



## 10gizzle

Shock Street said:


> Y'all have me reading an article about japanese cows now


You keep talking like that, we might need a food thread....


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

10gizzle said:


> Anytime the wifey asks if I wanna make some interesting new dish, my response:
> 
> LET'S DO ITTTTTT (in a very, very Brazilian accent lol)
> 
> 
> 
> It is - but as long as you don't waste your time watching things that literally upset you, make you mad, or creative negative thoughts - I find that rabbit hole to be a beautiful thing.


lllllet’s dooo ittttt

‘i know they don’t loom that good right now, but watch this’

dude is classic


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> They'll be going up against Lakers vs Mavs though, so I could see them still losing. I know I'll be watching the Lakers game. Them being on the network makes it so easy to miss. Unless it's a Dunne or Priest.


ah, nxt against a hot nba game

fair play, they might still lose it then

regardless, aew should win the demo no matter what

and should not go below 700k i think


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> The rating reflects the quality of the previous show a lot. That is why LAST week did a much better ratings than the week before with the heavily promoted "Winter is Coming" and the big title match. THAT episode delivered great quality with Sting debuting and Kenny winning so the week after which did not have a title match did better based on the hype created there. That is why it was very easy to predict this week would be way down due to last week really sucking. They managed to get a ton of eyeballs for last week and they delivered some Tofurkey. I really do not understand how difficult this is to see.


That's simply not true; IMO the best episodes are the ones featuring lesser known talent who get to showcase their wrestling & have promo time. Yet, the most watched shows are the ones with promoted high profile matches like Omega & Mox. Draw trumps quality


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

10gizzle said:


> You keep talking like that, we might need a food thread....


i’ll second that


----------



## RainmakerV2

Pippen94 said:


> That's simply not true; IMO the best episodes are the ones featuring lesser known talent who get to showcase their wrestling & have promo time. Yet, the most watched shows are the ones with promoted high profile matches like Omega & Mox. Draw trumps quality


You think last night was one of their better episodes? Sweet Jesus.


----------



## Pippen94

RainmakerV2 said:


> Of course its a wash and doesn't matter when AEW does poorly. Like, of course. Lol


No, ppl overreacting to ratings - trying to make out 3# show for night is poor & 34# a success


----------



## RainmakerV2

Pippen94 said:


> No, ppl overreacting to ratings - trying to make out 3# show for night is poor & 34# a success



Is losing 200k supposed to be good?


----------



## Prosper

Damn, big drop. Disappointing. The wrestling last night wasn't bad but it was a show full of lower tier talent that no one cares about. Kind of dragged on and I never say that about an AEW show. Felt like filler. Tony wants to give guys exposure and let people shine but he also has to realize that most people want to see the more established acts. It's cool to showcase new talent but you have to do it gradually, not all at once like he did last night. If TNT and Tony are happy with the numbers though, then it's all good. This drop doesn't affect my perception or enjoyment of AEW in the least, I know that we have banger after banger to come and I can trust them to give me good shit at least 85% of the time, which is more than I can ask for as a wrestling fan.


----------



## Mike E

Great to see AEW finish #3 in the top 150! Sucks to see the viewership fall but they did way better this year compared to last year.


----------



## validreasoning

Mike E said:


> Great to see AEW finish #3 in the top 150! Sucks to see the viewership fall but they did way better this year compared to last year.


Last year they were not coming off biggest hotshotted episode of pro wrestling since TNA impact January 4th 2010..


----------



## Mike E

validreasoning said:


> Last year they were not coming off biggest hotshotted episode of pro wrestling since TNA impact January 4th 2010..


I don't expect them to constantly hit numbers like last week, at least for a while. They're a promotion that's been around less than two years. Its promising that they finished in the top 5 again though. The last two episodes of Dynamite have admittedly not been there strongest, but the next three episodes look to be headed in the right direction.


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> That's simply not true; IMO the best episodes are the ones featuring lesser known talent who get to showcase their wrestling & have promo time. Yet, the most watched shows are the ones with promoted high profile matches like Omega & Mox. Draw trumps quality


It seems to be true though. I am not saying it is 100% what contributes to the rating trend, but it seems to be a big piece, and it makes complete sense logically that a highly reviewed show that generates buzz will get more eyeballs for the next episode right?

The hyped up show with Kenny and Mox good a good rating, but the much BETTER rating was the week after which did not have a hyped lineup or special theme. Make sense?


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> The hyped up show with Kenny and Mox good a good rating, but the much BETTER rating was the week after which did not have a hyped lineup or special theme. Make sense?


You know it don’t make sense to him.


----------



## chronoxiong

800k viewers for this time of the year on a Wed night is still fine. The show wasn't good but I think they should take this number. Can't go hard every week.


----------



## bdon

chronoxiong said:


> 800k viewers for this time of the year on a Wed night is still fine. The show wasn't good but I think they should take this number. Can't go hard every week.


It’s terrible, because you sign Sting to get new eyes on the product, to sell yourself to a new audience.

And they fucking shit the bed two weeks in a row. What reason do those fans just discovering AEW have to come back? You think they will sit through that stupid shit again in hopes that it is actually better than they saw?

These motherfuckers don’t know shit about how to capitalize.


----------



## thenglishpatriot

*Year-over-Year mathematics:*

AEW +123K (+0.07 demo)
NXT -29K (-0.08 demo)


----------



## Seafort

thenglishpatriot said:


> *Year-over-Year mathematics:*
> 
> AEW +123K (+0.07 demo)
> NXT -29K (-0.08 demo)


Compare those numbers to RAW Year over Year.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> You know as someone who really hated late Spring and Summer when things were dragging I appreciate blowing the load more. But you're right they need more balance. They'd probably just be better served by not overusing the very special episode. But by conditioning everybody into knowing that story movement will happen weekly. Their story telling is too hectic.
> 
> Like Kenny is doing stuff with Impact, but that's not on Dynamite. Instead there's a big title match against Fenix in 2 weeks. Who also happens to be in the middle of his own feud with his brother and Pac vs Eddie and Butcher & Blade with Archer randomly in the mix. As I'm typing it surely that will be a 4 way soon lol


*Exactly. You're giving away a match between your champion and one of the best workers in AEW a week before a megacard. That's without even mentioning he's involved in a feud already. Why not save that for around Royal Rumble time so people have a reason to care about your show?*


----------



## Shleppy

I just don't know how this company will ever grow their audience

We'll see how long TNT is happy with these up and down ratings


----------



## Mike E

Shleppy said:


> I just don't know how this company will ever grow their audience
> 
> We'll see how long TNT is happy with these up and down ratings


I'm sure TNT is perfectly fine with there primetime show coming in #3 in the top 150. Its a top 10 show on Wednesday nights, some people talk about Dynamite like its not even charting.


----------



## Shleppy

Mike E said:


> I'm sure TNT is perfectly fine with there primetime show coming in #3 in the top 150. Its a top 10 show on Wednesday nights, some people talk about Dynamite like its not even charting.


I totally agree that TNT is happy with the 18-49 demo rating, but they could eventually think that pro wrestling is a joke (like they've done in the past) if they don't ever raise their P2 rating and not renew AEW so they can start some new dumb reality show (like real housewives) that can get the same demo rating but a higher P2 rating

There are definitely suits who are embarrassed to be even associated with professional wrestling and I hope history doesn't repeat itself

AEW has to be given time as the pandemic has hurt the product, pro wrestling works much better with a packed arena

I still enjoy AEW more than WWE right now, despite their flaws


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> It’s terrible, because you sign Sting to get new eyes on the product, to sell yourself to a new audience.
> 
> And they fucking shit the bed two weeks in a row. What reason do those fans just discovering AEW have to come back? You think they will sit through that stupid shit again in hopes that it is actually better than they saw?
> 
> These motherfuckers don’t know shit about how to capitalize.


Ratings were always going to go down because last two weeks were stacked.

Ratings for debuting or returning superstars peak in the first advertised week & drop off quickly after - look at Kenny in impact.

Further, aew book to build to special episodes of dynamite so the line up for this show was never going to be great.

You're using predictable numbers for factors I listed to support an irrelevant argument


----------



## Tell it like it is

I'm not really surprised. Show was not that great. Nothing really stood out for me other than Omega.


----------



## bdon

Pippen94 said:


> Ratings were always going to go down because last two weeks were stacked.
> 
> Ratings for debuting or returning superstars peak in the first advertised week & drop off quickly after - look at Kenny in impact.
> 
> Further, aew book to build to special episodes of dynamite so the line up for this show was never going to be great.
> 
> You're using predictable numbers for factors I listed to support an irrelevant argument


That is natural, but losing 20% of that bump is not natural and could be lessened by not putting SO MANY unknowns on TV at once, man. Goddamn this shit isn’t hard.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

There has been some very limited chatter on what has caused this so I wanted to comment on that before replying to some people.

Sting - With the Stinger, yes they've signed a legend but you need a plan for that legend and even sometimes you might have a plan for a legend but it's not the right plan (Hogan/TNA in 2010 springs to mind). They've signed Sting most likely spur of the moment without a true plan in place and now they're wondering why they've dropped their lollies just two weeks later. It's because he's no longer someone that's "must see" to tune in for. In AEW's defence, getting it right is very difficult but it's doable with a strong creative team. With the people in place they're never going to be able to do it.

Apart from that it's creative and just pushing the wrong guys. Omega is cool for us guys on the internet but nobody who tuned in for Sting last week is going to see him and be like "Oh shit, we need to stick around for him" and he wasn't really hyped as a big deal also. Nobody cares about Cody apart from a midcard/upper midcard standpoint yet he is literally treated like a god of wrestling which would be amusing to most people.

The main event between Kenny and Joey, if you are just someone tuning in or even a guy like me who watches but doesn't follow social media it was a random hardcore match for you between a 5'8 fat Chris Jericho look-a-like and a very feminine man wrestling for the World Heavyweight Title against Kenny Omega. It was a pretty shitty match also.




DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Why doesn't AEW use the jumbotron over the entrance to show advertisements on during matches. I think it's a sneaky smart way to raise revenue and could be a way to have less commercials during shows. Given the hardcam faces the stage in the era of no fans in the stands it could be a decent income generator.


I actually had this idea regionally. I wanted to buy guardrails and sell local sponsorships for each side of guardrails and then on the tron the ads would change randomly every 20-30 seconds. 

On TV it wouldn't lead to less commercials but it would indeed be something they could add to a sponsorship package to help sell things. Good idea.



ripcitydisciple said:


> What is you're goal here? Why do you get high and mighty whenever AEW does what in your mind is poor or 'fails'?
> 
> I mean is there something I am not aware of that is having people like you and the others do this shit every day?
> 
> Does you're dick grow 3 sizes bigger every time AEW 'fucks up'? Does $1000 magically appear in your bank account?
> What is it? Help me out here. Help me with the reasoning you come on here everyday to shit on a product you don't like.
> 
> It's maddening.


Well sir, look at the behaviour of the guys like Pippen, CattleClass, DammitChrist (Thankfully has backed off in recent weeks) and plenty of others when AEW does a high rating. Plenty of "Fuck you! Where's the haters now?!" talk. For many I'm sure it's because they want to rub things in the face of a guy like Pippen who is just so combative and arrogant when it comes to AEW's numbers.

For me, it's a relief every week AEW does bad because it shows to me that my vision of professional wrestling is still out there. When people reject this comedy meme style of wrestling it makes me think that there is hope for my own wrestling promotion and what I'm trying to achieve.

If AEW ever got it together and started killing it every week and the ratings were bad I'd feel sad so please don't think it's biasedness.



Pippen94 said:


> So just by coincidence ppv fallout shows & episodes with heavily promoted debuts do bigger numbers?? Some episodes more stacked than others. Last night wasn't stacked


Ugh.


----------



## kyledriver

RapShepard said:


> Side note is Wagyu really that amazing? Not a big steak guy, but curios


It literally melts in your mouth, try it if you get the chance, and have some extra money cause it ain't cheap lol

Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk


----------



## Chip Chipperson

My Mrs is a chef I just asked her about Wagyu Steak and she says she'll look into it and we'll try it.

Wish me luck, friends.


----------



## Mister Sinister

They just can't keep their dick up. They put no effort into that card last night. And they should have stepped back and spent the next week working on next week's card instead of throwing out another list of matches like they always do.

They should have put Sting in a tag match against Omega and other heels like I suggested. So simple, it's fn stupid. All they had to do was open the show with Janela layed out by a busted jar of Nutella in the back to reset the main event.

Every week should be, 'tune in because you don't know what is going to happen.'


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> There has been some very limited chatter on what has caused this so I wanted to comment on that before replying to some people.
> 
> Sting - With the Stinger, yes they've signed a legend but you need a plan for that legend and even sometimes you might have a plan for a legend but it's not the right plan (Hogan/TNA in 2010 springs to mind). They've signed Sting most likely spur of the moment without a true plan in place and now they're wondering why they've dropped their lollies just two weeks later. It's because he's no longer someone that's "must see" to tune in for. In AEW's defence, getting it right is very difficult but it's doable with a strong creative team. With the people in place they're never going to be able to do it.
> 
> Apart from that it's creative and just pushing the wrong guys. Omega is cool for us guys on the internet but nobody who tuned in for Sting last week is going to see him and be like "Oh shit, we need to stick around for him" and he wasn't really hyped as a big deal also. Nobody cares about Cody apart from a midcard/upper midcard standpoint yet he is literally treated like a god of wrestling which would be amusing to most people.
> 
> The main event between Kenny and Joey, if you are just someone tuning in or even a guy like me who watches but doesn't follow social media it was a random hardcore match for you between a 5'8 fat Chris Jericho look-a-like and a very feminine man wrestling for the World Heavyweight Title against Kenny Omega. It was a pretty shitty match also.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I actually had this idea regionally. I wanted to buy guardrails and sell local sponsorships for each side of guardrails and then on the tron the ads would change randomly every 20-30 seconds.
> 
> On TV it wouldn't lead to less commercials but it would indeed be something they could add to a sponsorship package to help sell things. Good idea.
> 
> 
> 
> Well sir, look at the behaviour of the guys like Pippen, CattleClass, DammitChrist (Thankfully has backed off in recent weeks) and plenty of others when AEW does a high rating. Plenty of "Fuck you! Where's the haters now?!" talk. For many I'm sure it's because they want to rub things in the face of a guy like Pippen who is just so combative and arrogant when it comes to AEW's numbers.
> 
> For me, it's a relief every week AEW does bad because it shows to me that my vision of professional wrestling is still out there. When people reject this comedy meme style of wrestling it makes me think that there is hope for my own wrestling promotion and what I'm trying to achieve.
> 
> If AEW ever got it together and started killing it every week and the ratings were bad I'd feel sad so please don't think it's biasedness.
> 
> 
> 
> Ugh.


You know aew was 3# show for night & 1# in males 18-49??


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> You know aew was 3# show for night & 1# in males 18-49??


Nobody cares about demo for a wrestling show.

#3 with talent worth 30 million dollars.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> My Mrs is a chef I just asked her about Wagyu Steak and she says she'll look into it and we'll try it.
> 
> Wish me luck, friends.


There is no luck. It’s putting it into your mouth and voila. Success! Lol


----------



## .christopher.

RainmakerV2 said:


> Its called mo men tum Khan. How does the most badass pro wrestler in the world (according to AEW) lose his belt in the biggest screwjob ever (according to AEW commentators), and just go into hiding for weeks and let other people get title shots? Lol


This simple fucking stuff, too. Like, amateur level knowledge.

EVERYONE knew the ratings would sink because, after gaining new eyes from Sting, they follow it up with their outlaw mudshow approach because they're dumb motherfuckers. You're killing off potential fans by showing that shit just because your current fanbase will accept anything you put out because they're sheep.


validreasoning said:


> The whole Sting stuff is lame as fuck. I mean why is he there? Whats the end goal? It's almost as bad as that last Steve Austin appearance on Raw with the cue-cards.
> 
> Omega angle was never going to work. Wrestling fans see right through it that's it's just a pro wrestling angle and cannot suspend disbelief. Would be equivalent if HHH won NXT title and fucked off to MLW.
> 
> Biggest angles last 25 years people actually "believed" at least part of it was real. You could buy that Nash and Hall were sent by Vince or that Vince was a maniacal power hungry owner that wanted to fuck over his employees or that Punk was really leaving WWE when his contract expired or that Bryan was really being held down by management and they would do everything in their power to stop his push.


Exactly.

Getting your fans invested into a BELIEVABLE character or story still draws, yet these arse-backwards goofs have built their entire show on making a mockery of the profession by openly saying, yeah, this shits fake and we're just playing with our friends. Morons.


----------



## The Wood

So AEW didn’t beat Raw? Consider me shocked.

This product is not going to make new fans.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> Nobody cares about demo for a wrestling show.
> 
> #3 with talent worth 30 million dollars.


That's why fox gives wwe $1 billion to finish last in total viewers & top in demo


----------



## La Parka

This is the second time AEW has lost thousands of viewers over just a few week span.

During the premier, millions were tuned in and interested in this new product. Over the next few weeks they drove those fans away.

Now they had some buzz because of Sting for two weeks and those same people were driven away again. The card was just filled with people that nobody knew or wanted to see. If you did tune in, you'd be even more disappointed because none of the matches were all that interesting and Sting did the same shit he did the last two weeks.

No one is tuning into a card that is main evented by Joey Janella. Joey could be facing Jesus Christ himself and Christians would still catch the youtube clip the day after.

AEW desperately needs to hire a booker with experience in the industry because putting on a card like that after getting all that buzz is something an efed booker would even know not to do.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> That's why fox gives wwe $1 billion to finish last in total viewers & top in demo


FOX pays WWE $200 million a year for two hours of weekly year-round content on a dead night.


----------



## thorn123

Disappointing that’s for sure. Dynamite may be far from perfect, and I agree they need to improve, buts it’s still better than 800k.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DaveRA said:


> Disappointing that’s for sure. Dynamite may be far from perfect, and I agree they need to improve, buts it’s still better than 800k.


Spoiler: It's not.

Willingness to accept anything that isn't WWE and to lie about how good it is because "It's not Vince" is what killed TNA and it's what could kill AEW.

Demand better.


----------



## Mr316

What’s crazy is that you would think that people like JR, Jericho, Dustin Rhodes, Malenko, Billy Gunn, people in the company with a huge amount of experience in the business would tell Khan that it’s important to pull off GREAT shows following the Sting debut. So either they don’t care about the brand or there’s someone who’s not listening to what they have to say or...now we understand why a wrestling company needs writers.


----------



## RapShepard

Think it's time for a Wagyu in the Bank Ladder match. The winner can cash in to their local dealer for 20lbs(9kgs) of the good shit.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Mr316 said:


> What’s crazy is that you would think that people like JR, Jericho, Dustin Rhodes, Malenko, Billy Gunn, people in the company with a huge amount of experience in the business would tell Khan that it’s important to pull off GREAT shows following the Sting debut. So either they don’t care about the brand or there’s someone who’s not listening to what they have to say.


None of those guys are in creative spots except Jericho. I don't think TK and crew are interested in listening to older vets.


----------



## .christopher.

Mr316 said:


> What’s crazy is that you would think that people like JR, Jericho, Dustin Rhodes, Malenko, Billy Gunn, people in the company with a huge amount of experience in the business would tell Khan that it’s important to pull off GREAT shows following the Sting debut. So either they don’t care about the brand or there’s someone who’s not listening to what they have to say or...now we understand why a wrestling company needs writers.


From the outside, it's clear that they don't want to do anything that's not their way. The experienced lot will have offered their opinion and been ignored.

Just look at JR. He's offered these goofs advice on how to properly work and have shit make sense and is mocked for it by some jabroni. Then, the following week, AEW air trainwreck after trainwreck.



La Parka said:


> This is the second time AEW has lost thousands of viewers over just a few week span.
> 
> During the premier, millions were tuned in and interested in this new product. Over the next few weeks they drove those fans away.
> 
> Now they had some buzz because of Sting for two weeks and those same people were driven away again. The card was just filled with people that nobody knew or wanted to see. If you did tune in, you'd be even more disappointed because none of the matches were all that interesting and Sting did the same shit he did the last two weeks.
> 
> No one is tuning into a card that is main evented by Joey Janella. Joey could be facing Jesus Christ himself and Christians would still catch the youtube clip the day after.
> 
> AEW desperately needs to hire a booker with experience in the industry because putting on a card like that after getting all that buzz is something an efed booker would even know not to do.


Imagine after Mankind won the WWF championship, thus beating WCW in the ratings, they started the RAW after with Crash Holly vs Gangrel and a Mean Street Posse promo, and Head Cheese vs Too Cool main evented.


----------



## thorn123

Chip Chipperson said:


> Spoiler: It's not.
> 
> Willingness to accept anything that isn't WWE and to lie about how good it is because "It's not Vince" is what killed TNA and it's what could kill AEW.
> 
> Demand better.


Agree to disagree


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Chan Hung said:


> And....it's not a surprise the number was low 800's. I said this in the AEW thread recently that this number would be lower, the show was absolutely one of the worst AEW show's ive ever seen. They are lucky to stay at 800.


*We knew this last week when we saw the preview lol.*


----------



## CM Buck

LifeInCattleClass said:


> there is a legend that for every neg AEW gets, somewhere somebodies balls finally drop
> 
> i read it in a science journal


Let's stop talking about balls. Wrestling is homoerotic enough as it is


----------



## thenglishpatriot

Seafort said:


> Compare those numbers to RAW Year over Year.


why?


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> None of those guys are in creative spots except Jericho. I don't think TK and crew are interested in listening to older vets.


There is no motivation to care when they don’t respect the money mark. Don’t misinterpret this ye AEW Faithful: they like the hell out of Tony Khan, but they do not respect him. They have no reason to believe he will hold anyone accountable for bad shows. He has given no one any reason to believe he’ll lay down the law for how HE wants his company ran. He isn’t respected, because HE has not demanded himself.

That can all change, but it has not occurred yet. That sort of thing will occur when he lets him know their relationships will be of equal give and take: you provide your best, and I will provide the best dollar for your services.

These guys expect the well to run forever.



.christopher. said:


> .
> 
> 
> Imagine after Mankind won the WWF championship, thus beating WCW in the ratings, they started the RAW after with Crash Holly vs Gangrel and a Mean Street Posse promo, and Head Cheese vs Too Cool main evented.


I pointed out this issue the very next Dynamite after Full Gear 2019 when they had nothing for Omega. Now a year later, and they don’t have anything for Moxley.

Fallout shows, IMO, are nearly the most important show in the cycle. Everyone knows the PPV or “specials” will draw more eyes than normal by nature of being a more heavily stacked card. The Fallout Show is vital in telling the audience, “This is where we were, this is what occurred, and this...*this is where we are going.”*

You build the characters and their hero/villain story arc to a crescendo with the payoff for following and investing into our characters culminating at the PPV or Special Dynamite. Now that you’ve given the payoff, you must provide a hook at the Fallout Show to make the audience believe their is still story to be told. Constant character and audience engagement and reinvestment.

It’s actually embarrassing that these guys still haven’t discovered this in 14+ months of weekly, episodic television.


----------



## The Wood

Mr316 said:


> What’s crazy is that you would think that people like JR, Jericho, Dustin Rhodes, Malenko, Billy Gunn, people in the company with a huge amount of experience in the business would tell Khan that it’s important to pull off GREAT shows following the Sting debut. So either they don’t care about the brand or there’s someone who’s not listening to what they have to say or...now we understand why a wrestling company needs writers.


They ignore wisdom. JR has to go on Twitter and use his podcast for his ideas to gain any traction. They hired the best pro-wrestling announcer in the world to call PWG and are baffled that he can’t add meat to those bare bones.

And this is not a knock on Billy Gunn, but he’s there as an agent. What matches is Billy Gunn putting together? Which tag team in AEW is looking at the New Age Outlaws and Billy & Chuck for their in-ring inspiration? Yet they’re paying him to...just be there, i



bdon said:


> There is no motivation to care when they don’t respect the money mark. Don’t misinterpret this ye AEW Faithful: they like the hell out of Tony Khan, but they do not respect him. They have no reason to believe he will hold anyone accountable for bad shows. He has given no one any reason to believe he’ll lay down the law for how HE wants his company ran. He isn’t respected, because HE has not demanded himself.
> 
> That can all change, but it has not occurred yet. That sort of thing will occur when he lets him know their relationships will be of equal give and take: you provide your best, and I will provide the best dollar for your services.
> 
> These guys expect the well to run forever.
> 
> 
> 
> I pointed out this issue the very next Dynamite after Full Gear 2019 when they had nothing for Omega. Now a year later, and they don’t have anything for Moxley.
> 
> Fallout shows, IMO, are nearly the most important show in the cycle. Everyone knows the PPV or “specials” will draw more eyes than normal by nature of being a more heavily stacked card. The Fallout Show is vital in telling the audience, “This is where we were, this is what occurred, and this...*this is where we are going.”*
> 
> You build the characters and their hero/villain story arc to a crescendo with the payoff for following and investing into our characters culminating at the PPV or Special Dynamite. Now that you’ve given the payoff, you must provide a hook at the Fallout Show to make the audience believe their is still story to be told. Constant character and audience engagement and reinvestment.
> 
> It’s actually embarrassing that these guys still haven’t discovered this in 14+ months of weekly, episodic television.


This is an excellent post.


----------



## Hitman1987

I don’t venture into this thread very often as not sure where to find ratings so would somebody be kind enough to save me some time and tell me the total viewers figures for each week since Sting has arrived so I can see the drop off? Not interested in the demo. 

Cheers


----------



## The Wood

Hitman1987 said:


> I don’t venture into this thread very often as not sure where to find ratings so would somebody be kind enough to save me some time and tell me the total viewers figures for each week since Sting has arrived so I can see the drop off? Not interested in the demo.
> 
> Cheers


913k for Winter is Coming and the announcement of Sting. 995k for Sting. 806k for after they’ve seen what they’re going to do with Sting. The last time they cracked 900k opposed was August.


----------



## Hitman1987

The Wood said:


> 913k for Winter is Coming and the announcement of Sting. 995k for Sting. 806k for after they’ve seen what they’re going to do with Sting. The last time they cracked 900k opposed was August.


Thank you. 

So it looks like they managed to draw in 100-150k casuals but have lost them again and are back to the usual 800-850k.


----------



## fabi1982

RapShepard said:


> Think it's time for a Wagyu in the Bank Ladder match. The winner can cash in to their local dealer for 20lbs(9kgs) of the good shit.


You know that 9kg of the good shit will cost you at least 4500 dollars


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Guys, Wagyu is fucking expensive whats the go?


----------



## fabi1982

Chip Chipperson said:


> Guys, Wagyu is fucking expensive whats the go?


Its basically like eating a piece of heaven, or like a stick of butter, but very delicious butter  

I guess if you are no "meat lover" it is not worth it. The price comes from the rareness, like I said the real wagyu (kobe beef) is just produced in Japan (Kobe) and just by a small amount of farmers. So its basic capitalism, someone thought this is great and with not much of product the price exploded.


----------



## Pippen94

Why isn't anybody talking about 8 minute overrun wwe Wednesday got?? That means it ran unopposed all that time & would have inflated ratings. Overrun can get highest rating of either show for night


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> Why isn't anybody talking about 8 minute overrun wwe Wednesday got?? That means it ran unopposed all that time & would have inflated ratings. Overrun can get highest rating of either show for night


Give it a rest Pippen. You lost brother.


----------



## VIP86

almost 200000 drop in viewers from last week, Why Am I Not Surprised?
you do a shit show with shit booking, you suffer the consequences
dynamite has become a tag team wrestling show with some singles matches sprinkled on the side
it almost looks like they are trying to hide that they don't have enough quality TRUE singles pro wrestlers
every match ends with a Clusterfuck to the point it doesn't even have a minor impact anymore
Sting appearance on the show was underwhelming, it screams inexperienced booking
this show feels like watching 10 years old Tony Khan in his room booking his G.I. Joe wrestling federation


----------



## The Wood

Chip Chipperson said:


> Guys, Wagyu is fucking expensive whats the go?


You’ll get better answers and I know nothing about meat, but my thoughts are “Japanese cow = money”. It’s an idea thing. Apparently it’s thinner and tastes better? Sure, whatever. You get wagyu to feel wag better about yuself.



Pippen94 said:


> Why isn't anybody talking about 8 minute overrun wwe Wednesday got?? That means it ran unopposed all that time & would have inflated ratings. Overrun can get highest rating of either show for night


It’s done. It’s over. The spin is spin.


----------



## Hitman1987

The Wood said:


> 913k for Winter is Coming and the announcement of Sting. 995k for Sting. 806k for after they’ve seen what they’re going to do with Sting. The last time they cracked 900k opposed was August.


Did NXT also beat AEW this week in total viewers?


----------



## K4L318

Shleppy said:


> I totally agree that TNT is happy with the 18-49 demo rating, but they could eventually think that pro wrestling is a joke (like they've done in the past) if they don't ever raise their P2 rating and not renew AEW so they can start some new dumb reality show (like real housewives) that can get the same demo rating but a higher P2 rating
> 
> There are definitely suits who are embarrassed to be even associated with professional wrestling and I hope history doesn't repeat itself
> 
> AEW has to be given time as the pandemic has hurt the product, pro wrestling works much better with a packed arena
> 
> I still enjoy AEW more than WWE right now, despite their flaws


find me a show doin better on the Wednesday slot for TNT? 

answer, none. Yall too drama queens on this thread. Numbers gonna fluctuate and most fans are trained to not think winter = big shows, so dem kats wait till Rumble season or DVR. 

its just how it is.


----------



## K4L318

Hitman1987 said:


> Did NXT also beat AEW this week in total viewers?


nah


----------



## Pippen94

Hitman1987 said:


> Did NXT also beat AEW this week in total viewers?


No - aew won that again. Overall aew has won total viewers 48 times to just 9.
Aew also won demo again which has for last 52+ weeks.


----------



## Hitman1987

Pippen94 said:


> No - aew won that again. Overall aew has won total viewers 48 times to just 9.
> Aew also won demo again which has for last 52+ weeks.


What was total viewership for NXT this week?


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> Give it a rest Pippen. You lost brother.


Ignoring that you seem to be allowed to make glib nonsense posts - wwe Wednesday benefits from overruns every week. 
Fans switching between shows is a real thing with placement of ads affecting ratings. Wrestlers can be declared a draw but on closer inspection any spike is result of commercial on other show. 
8 minutes is a very long overrun.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Hitman1987 said:


> What was total viewership for NXT this week?


AEW: 806,000

NXT: 766,000

Pippen's excited over a win of 40,000 people despite the Dub having 11 former WWE main roster stars on yesterday's show and one of WCW's biggest stars.

For those interested I don't believe NXT had any former main roster stars on their episode yesterday.


----------



## .christopher.

bdon said:


> I pointed out this issue the very next Dynamite after Full Gear 2019 when they had nothing for Omega. Now a year later, and they don’t have anything for Moxley.
> 
> Fallout shows, IMO, are nearly the most important show in the cycle. Everyone knows the PPV or “specials” will draw more eyes than normal by nature of being a more heavily stacked card. The Fallout Show is vital in telling the audience, “This is where we were, this is what occurred, and this...*this is where we are going.”*
> 
> You build the characters and their hero/villain story arc to a crescendo with the payoff for following and investing into our characters culminating at the PPV or Special Dynamite. Now that you’ve given the payoff, you must provide a hook at the Fallout Show to make the audience believe their is still story to be told. Constant character and audience engagement and reinvestment.
> 
> It’s actually embarrassing that these guys still haven’t discovered this in 14+ months of weekly, episodic television.


You're spot on.

Thing is, though, you say "It’s actually embarrassing that these guys still haven’t discovered this in 14+ months of weekly, episodic television." but it's embarrassing that they didn't know this prior to their first episode. They should have known this as soon as they came up with the idea to start a wrestling company.

After 14 months it's shameful.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> AEW: 806,000
> 
> NXT: 766,000
> 
> Pippen's excited over a win of 40,000 people despite the Dub having 11 former WWE main roster stars on yesterday's show and one of WCW's biggest stars.
> 
> For those interested I don't believe NXT had any former main roster stars on their episode yesterday.


Aew beating wwe Wednesday happens every week - Dynamite being 3# for night was impressive 

Stars don't equal ratings; TNA had Hogan, Flair, Foley & a younger Sting yet was never top ten.

This year wwe Wednesday has featured Charlotte Flair, Sasha Banks & Shawn Michaels among others & couldn't crack top ten either


----------



## K4L318

.christopher. said:


> You're spot on.
> 
> Thing is, though, you say "It’s actually embarrassing that these guys still haven’t discovered this in 14+ months of weekly, episodic television." but it's embarrassing that they didn't know this prior to their first episode. They should have known this as soon as they came up with the idea to start a wrestling company.
> 
> After 14 months it's shameful.


nah he just being a mark.

Mox's chick is pregnant. And they giving MJF his time.


----------



## fabi1982

Pippen94 said:


> Why isn't anybody talking about 8 minute overrun wwe Wednesday got?? That means it ran unopposed all that time & would have inflated ratings. Overrun can get highest rating of either show for night


What does this have to do with the AEW rating?


----------



## K4L318

Pippen94 said:


> Aew beating wwe Wednesday happens every week - Dynamite being 3# for night was impressive
> 
> Stars don't equal ratings; TNA had Hogan, Flair, Foley & a younger Sting yet was never top ten.
> 
> This year wwe Wednesday has featured Charlotte Flair, Sasha Banks & Shawn Michaels among others & couldn't crack top ten either


its concerning how Sasha is on Disney, watched by 65Million peeps and none of dat matters to WWE's demo one bit.

Flair, Hogan, Rock, dem kats would get seen by 60M in an app peeps are going to check listings to watch dem, none of da new kats are translating to real views.


----------



## NathanMayberry

3venflow said:


> From Canada:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1339676236524756992


There were literally no sports happening on Wednesday, except for College Basketball and pre-season NBA neither of which is not popular in Canada at all, unless it involves the Raptors. who didn't play.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> Aew beating wwe Wednesday happens every week - Dynamite being 3# for night was impressive
> 
> Stars don't equal ratings; TNA had Hogan, Flair, Foley & a younger Sting yet was never top ten.
> 
> This year wwe Wednesday has featured Charlotte Flair, Sasha Banks & Shawn Michaels among others & couldn't crack top ten either


If stars don't equal ratings then how come every entertainment company on planet earth is always in the market for stars to either interview or hire?

You're reaching Pippen.


----------



## K4L318

Chip Chipperson said:


> If stars don't equal ratings then how come every entertainment company on planet earth is always in the market for stars to either interview or hire?
> 
> You're reaching Pippen.


nah he making sense.

if stars equal ratings, why are SmackDown number alltime low? why Roman only in the 2s on FOX bruh wit NFL promos. Why Sasha who on StarWars not bringin it dem new fans? where is it? where it at homie? I got work in a few, catch ya on my break.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

K4L318 said:


> nah he making sense.
> 
> if stars equal ratings, why are SmackDown number alltime low? why Roman only in the 2s on FOX bruh wit NFL promos. Why Sasha who on StarWars not bringin it dem new fans? where is it?


I can't believe I'm having this argument.

Now stars don't matter? Lol.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> I can't believe I'm having this argument.
> 
> Now stars don't matter? Lol.


TV shows don't interview same stars every week - shine wears off. Story & action sustains ratings


----------



## Hitman1987

Chip Chipperson said:


> AEW: 806,000
> 
> NXT: 766,000
> 
> Pippen's excited over a win of 40,000 people despite the Dub having 11 former WWE main roster stars on yesterday's show and one of WCW's biggest stars.
> 
> For those interested I don't believe NXT had any former main roster stars on their episode yesterday.


Let’s be honest, AEW should be smashing NXT. AEW has recently proved that there are 1 million people willing to watch wrestling on a Wednesday but they just can’t hold on to them.

AEW has recently started an inter-promotion storyline with one of their top stars and brought back the biggest legend they can and they’ve still lost 100-150k viewers in 2 weeks. It’s hard to ignore that things have happened on the last 2 shows that have turned people off.

The above storylines are equivalent to somebody like randy Orton winning the universal title and taking it to NXT and somebody like Rock/SCSA/Hogan also turning up on NXT and involving themselves in the NXT championship feud. If NXT did this they would also get a ratings pop.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Hitman1987 said:


> Let’s be honest, AEW should be smashing NXT. AEW has recently proved that there are 1 million people willing to watch wrestling on a Wednesday but they just can’t hold on to them.
> 
> AEW has recently started an inter-promotion storyline with one of their top stars and brought back the biggest legend they can and they’ve still lost 100-150k viewers in 2 weeks. It’s hard to ignore that things have happened on the last 2 shows that have turned people off.
> 
> The above storylines are equivalent to somebody like randy Orton winning the universal title and taking it to NXT and somebody like Rock/SCSA/Hogan also turning up on NXT and involving themselves in the NXT championship feud. If NXT did this they would also get a ratings pop.


Finally someone making sense


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

That's not a good number for AEW, you can parrot on about them keeping a high demo all that you like, they've still lost 150k viewers, during a time when they seriously should be hitting the millions with the storylines they have. Their top guy is going an a quest to capture all the gold across numerous companies, and they can't retain viewership consistently. With some of the guys AEW have, they should have absolutely no problem hitting the 1 millions mark, yet they continue to fuck around by putting no name talents like Joey Janela in the main event of a TV show because Tony Khan doesn't know what the fuck he's doing.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

K4L318 said:


> nah he making sense.
> 
> if stars equal ratings, why are SmackDown number alltime low? why Roman only in the 2s on FOX bruh wit NFL promos. Why Sasha who on StarWars not bringin it dem new fans? where is it? where it at homie? I got work in a few, catch ya on my break.


Star Wars didn't even bring on Sasha because of WWE in the first place, they saw her on Hot Ones, so I seriously doubt anyone who's seeing her for the first time know she's on WWE.


----------



## 3venflow

So, AEW _did_ retain the viewership... but lost them. This should be a learning experience.

Hangman & Dark Order vs. Matt & Private Party did 1,010,000 viewers and 512,000 in 18-49. People obviously tuned out at some point (waiting for the full QHs).


----------



## Seafort

thenglishpatriot said:


> why?


RAW’s ratings are in utter collapse. The fact that AEW is up YoY is a huge victory against the overall trend of declining viewership


----------



## Mr316

3venflow said:


> So, AEW _did_ retain the viewership... but lost them. This should be a learning experience.
> 
> Hangman & Dark Order vs. Matt & Private Party did 1,010,000 viewers and 512,000 in 18-49. People obviously tuned out at some point (waiting for the full QHs).


Crazy. Tells you how bad the show was.


----------



## 3venflow

Kenny vs. Janela did only 718,000 viewers with 419,000 in 18-49. Why they'd put Janela in the main event is beyond me, but that seems to be the result.

I still don't have the full data (anyone here have a WON sub? It's in that), but apparently AEW slumped in the second hour and NXT had more viewers (but far less in the 18-49).


----------



## Geeee

3venflow said:


> From Canada:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1339676236524756992


For reference, Canada has about 1/10th as many people as the US, so this is pretty much like getting a million views.


----------



## Mr316

Geeee said:


> For reference, Canada has about 1/10th as many people as the US, so this is pretty much like getting a million views.


Numbers are down in Canada significantly. They used to have much better numbers in Canada just a few months ago.

“From the Observer - "AEW on 10/23, which didn’t battle the Maple Leafs, but still faced the World Series that did near Maple Leaf numbers, was up to 150,700. "


----------



## RapShepard

fabi1982 said:


> You know that 9kg of the good shit will cost you at least 4500 dollars


And that's why there's the briefcase lol


----------



## 3venflow

Mr316 said:


> Numbers are down in Canada significantly. They used to have much better numbers in Canada just a few months ago.
> 
> “From the Observer - "AEW on 10/23, which didn’t battle the Maple Leafs, but still faced the World Series that did near Maple Leaf numbers, was up to 150,700. "


I can only find three ratings in recent months from Canada. The one you referenced (150k), this week's (120k), and Winter is Coming (108k).

Is there a comprehensive list anywhere? I keep an eye on the UK ratings, where AEW is doing well.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Firefromthegods said:


> Let's stop talking about balls. Wrestling is homoerotic enough as it is


lol, fair play


----------



## 3venflow

Here are the QHs. HUGE drop at the end of the 12-man/women's segment. Also a more common drop-off from the start, with the opener clearly not enticing enough to keep 180k+ tuned in.

Q1: Hangman Page & The Dark Order vs. Matt Hardy & Private Party – 1,010,000 viewers, 512,000 in 18-49

Q2: Inner circle interview/Cody & Brando video/Cody Rhodes vs. Angelico – 826,000 viewers (down 184,000), 410,000 in 18-49 (down 102,000)

Q3: End of Cody vs. Angelico/Sting & Team Taz segment/Miro interview/Eddie Kingston promo & brawl – 843,000 viewers (up 17,000), 405,000 in 18-49 (down 5,000)

Q4: Dustin Rhodes interview/Inner Circle vs. Best Friends, Top Flight & Varsity Blondes – 835,000 viewers (down 8,000), 413,000 in 18-49 (up 8,000)

Q5: End of 12-man tag match/Thunder Rosa & Britt Baker segment – 726,000 viewers (down 109,000), 400,000 in 18-49 (down 13,000)

Q6: SCU vs. The Acclaimed/Top Flight promo – 746,000 viewers (up 20,000), 399,000 in 18-49 (down 1,000)

Q7: Ivelisse & Diamante vs. Big Swole & Serena Deeb – 741,000 viewers (down 5,000), 406,000 in 18-49 (up 7,000)

Q8: Kenny Omega vs. Joey Janela – 718,000 viewers (down 23,000), 419,000 in 18-49 (up 13,000)


----------



## 304418

Q1: Hangman Page & The Dark Order vs. Matt Hardy & Private Party – 1,010,000 viewers, 512,000 in 18-49
Q2: Inner circle interview/Cody & Brando video/Cody Rhodes vs. Angelico – 826,000 viewers (down 184,000), 410,000 in 18-49 (down 102,000)
Q3: End of Cody vs. Angelico/Sting & Team Taz segment/Miro interview/Eddie Kingston promo & brawl – 843,000 viewers (up 17,000), 405,000 in 18-49 (down 5,000)
Q4: Dustin Rhodes interview/Inner Circle vs. Best Friends, Top Flight & Varisty Blondes – 835,000 viewers (down 8,000), 413,000 in 18-49 (up 8,000)
Q5: End of 12-man tag match/Thunder Rosa & Britt Baker segment – 726,000 viewers (down 109,000), 400,000 in 18-49 (down 13,000)
Q6: SCU vs. The Acclaimed/Top Flight promo – 746,000 viewers (up 20,000), 399,000 in 18-49 (down 1,000)
Q7: Ivelisse & Diamante vs. Big Swole & Serena Deeb – 741,000 viewers (down 5,000), 406,000 in 18-49 (up 7,000)
Q8: Kenny Omega vs. Joey Janela – 718,000 viewers (down 23,000), 419,000 in 18-49 (up 13,000) 


That the women’s tag match outdrew the main event in total viewers, and Q3 (featuring Cody and Sting, Team Taz, Miro, & Eddie Kingston), Q5 (featuring Thunder Rosa and Baker), and Q6 (Acclaimed vs SCU) in the 18-49 is amazing.

But AEW really declined in viewers all night.


----------



## The Wood

Hitman1987 said:


> Did NXT also beat AEW this week in total viewers?


No, but it was close this week. Without effort too. If NXT got a hot-shot, it’d probably win pretty comfortably.



K4L318 said:


> nah he making sense.
> 
> if stars equal ratings, why are SmackDown number alltime low? why Roman only in the 2s on FOX bruh wit NFL promos. Why Sasha who on StarWars not bringin it dem new fans? where is it? where it at homie? I got work in a few, catch ya on my break.


Which stars? You’re defining stars by WWE standards, which is circular.



Pippen94 said:


> TV shows don't interview same stars every week - shine wears off. Story & action sustains ratings


That explains why AEW is slipping.



3venflow said:


> Kenny vs. Janela did only 718,000 viewers with 419,000 in 18-49. Why they'd put Janela in the main event is beyond me, but that seems to be the result.
> 
> I still don't have the full data (anyone here have a WON sub? It's in that), but apparently AEW slumped in the second hour and NXT had more viewers (but far less in the 18-49).


Cue Meltzer: Cornette is getting Janela over.


----------



## THANOS

Well this is definitely a learning lesson that I hope AEW embraces. Need to give something interesting in every segment to keep viewers, and no Janella in the main event.


----------



## The Wood

It’s not something they should be learning. It should be common sense. It’s not surprising in the slightest.

As Raw goes, so goes AEW. They’re followers that have chained themselves to that by being no better.


----------



## Joe Gill

this company doesnt understand killer instinct or building off momentum. Whenever they have a huge show like a ppv or winter is coming they follow it up with slowing everything down to a grinding halt and ruining momentum... which is literally the opposite if what you should be doing. The night after wrestlemania was usually the most anticipated raw of the year.. you couldnt wait to see how austin, rock, hhh etc were going to respond. They expect fans to get emotionally invested in wrestlers and storylines and then just drop them cold turkey with no explanation or follow through. They spent the last 8 months building up moxley like hes the next steve austin... he gets screwed out of the belt and now he just disappears? you dont think that the fans would be interested in seeing a moxley omega confrontation of some sort? you dont think that would help boost the ratings and keep them near 1 million? its just common sense... but nope... gotta have pointless SCU tag matches and dork order jobbers vs goldust instead... and joey freaking janella who looks like garbage on tv in your main event.


----------



## Mr316

Here’s breaking news to the hopefuls: it’s never gonna get much better than what they have right now. It can only go down. Tony Khan can believe in his own mind that he created an alternative but the truth is...he didn’t reinvent anything. It’s the same thing WWE has been doing for years.


----------



## bdon

For those 200k extra fans that showed up to watch Sting, everyone in AEW is basically new talent to be showcased. Show them your best.

Fuck this company will never grow more than 800-850k consistently.


----------



## Mr316

bdon said:


> For those 200k extra fans that showed up to watch Sting, everyone in AEW is basically new talent to be showcased. Show them your best.
> 
> Fuck this company will never grow more than 800-850k consistently.


Here’s the problem, Tony Khan probably thinks that Private Party and The Acclaimed are amazing fresh new tag teams that are gonna hook new viewers. 😂


----------



## Ozell Gray

Here’s a breakdown of the quarters for Dynamite:
Q1: Hangman Page & The Dark Order vs. Matt Hardy & Private Party – 1,010,000 viewers, 512,000 in 18-49
Q2: Inner circle interview/Cody & Brando video/Cody Rhodes vs. Angelico – 826,000 viewers (down 184,000), 410,000 in 18-49 (down 102,000)
Q3: End of Cody vs. Angelico/Sting & Team Taz segment/Miro interview/Eddie Kingston promo & brawl – 843,000 viewers (up 17,000), 405,000 in 18-49 (down 5,000)
Q4: Dustin Rhodes interview/Inner Circle vs. Best Friends, Top Flight & Varisty Blondes – 835,000 viewers (down 8,000), 413,000 in 18-49 (up 8,000)
Q5: End of 12-man tag match/Thunder Rosa & Britt Baker segment – 726,000 viewers (down 109,000), 400,000 in 18-49 (down 13,000)
Q6: SCU vs. The Acclaimed/Top Flight promo – 746,000 viewers (up 20,000), 399,000 in 18-49 (down 1,000)
Q7: Ivelisse & Diamante vs. Big Swole & Serena Deeb – 741,000 viewers (down 5,000), 406,000 in 18-49 (up 7,000)
Q8: Kenny Omega vs. Joey Janela – 718,000 viewers (down 23,000), 419,000 in 18-49 (up 13,000)


----------



## The Wood

It just dawned on me how ridiculous it is they pushed Joey Janela into a main event role. I’m numb to stupidity in wrestling, really. But they had a week off Sting and they thought “People also bought...” with _him_. Idiots.

They’re obsessed with Cornette. Never mind that Corny is right. That was all about Omega and Janela being “outlaw” and delivering a big number. But they pissed blood into their own mouths, because of course they did. Not like they gave him more ammo by being completely right, lol.

Bad content is bad, folks.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Almost 300,000 people tuned out from "the biggest star in Wrestling" .. Its clear that Sting and Shaq were the draws.... and Kenny Omega is vastly overrated.


----------



## RainmakerV2

So basically they still had momentum from the last two weeks and started out over 1 million, then pissed it all away with a bunch of jobber tags and Janela in the main event. All you can do is hope they learn from their mistakes, but I doubt it.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

$Dolladrew$ said:


> More often then not I'd rather watch a tag match then a womans title match then again men's wrestling is just better then womans though.


*That's funny considering your world champion in a gimmick match just got cooked by a regular women's main event*.
*







*


----------



## bdon

What do you expect when you put on meaningless tag matches and Joey Janela as Kenny’s first “big” match since his world title win?

These motherfuckers are ignorant. Who decides to put together these goddamn shows?


----------



## 3venflow

A big chunk of the audience had already gone by the time the main event came around. So even subtracting backyard Janela being in the main event, it's disingenuous to blame Kenny (who has been doing good ratings lately in the right context). If it had been the opening match it would've drawn a million. The problem was, the undercarder-filled show lost viewers consistently, especially in the second half.

If you're going to put undercarders on Dynamite, then team them with recognisable stars who are facing each other. ie. Miro/Kip vs. Cody/Sydal, Jericho/Hager/Sammy vs. Moxley/Top Flight, Death Triangle vs. MJF/Ortiz/Santana, Shida/Serena/Rosa vs. Britt/Ivellise/Diamante, Sting/Darby/Jungle Boy vs. Team Taz and so on. Those are just quick examples not related to storylines. That way, each segment has a better chance of retaining viewers because you have two big names opposite each other in most matches.


----------



## 304418

3venflow said:


> Miro/Kip vs. Cody/Sydal, Jericho/Hager/Sammy vs. Moxley/Top Flight, Death Triangle vs. MJF/Ortiz/Santana, Shida/Serena/Rosa vs. Britt/Ivellise/Diamante, Sting/Darby/Jungle Boy vs. Team Taz


Funny thing is that would have been a more appealing card than what aired on Wednesday.


----------



## Tell it like it is

bdon said:


> What do you expect when you put on meaningless tag matches and Joey Janela as Kenny’s first “big” match since his world title win?
> 
> These motherfuckers are ignorant. Who decides to put together these goddamn shows?


I'm with you bdon. Imagine seeing a guy in pigtails and a not so good physique in the main event against your world champion. Janela's a so called hardcore guy but he would be jobbing in ecw back in the day as well.


----------



## The Wood

3venflow said:


> A big chunk of the audience had already gone by the time the main event came around. So even subtracting backyard Janela being in the main event, it's disingenuous to blame Kenny (who has been doing good ratings lately in the right context). If it had been the opening match it would've drawn a million. The problem was, the undercarder-filled show lost viewers consistently, especially in the second half.
> 
> If you're going to put undercarders on Dynamite, then team them with recognisable stars who are facing each other. ie. Miro/Kip vs. Cody/Sydal, Jericho/Hager/Sammy vs. Moxley/Top Flight, Death Triangle vs. MJF/Ortiz/Santana, Shida/Serena/Rosa vs. Britt/Ivellise/Diamante, Sting/Darby/Jungle Boy vs. Team Taz and so on. Those are just quick examples not related to storylines. That way, each segment has a better chance of retaining viewers because you have two big names opposite each other in most matches.


Yeah, but they still would have tuned out. What people did get didn’t hold either. It’s all a series of impressions.

But Omega and Janela is just stupid.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Good rating this week. Great.


----------



## holy

It's funny, everytime Raw reaches record-low viewership (or near record-lows), everyone, including me, starts to think "man, it's only a matter of time before AEW Dynamite starts catching up with them in viewership."

EVERY time, in the SAME week, Dynamite seems to try to one-up Raw: "you think your show sucks? Wait till you see how bad ours is!" The result? Dynamite itself draws poor viewership, making you think "Nah, they ain't even catching up to Raw's viewership anytime soon..."


----------



## Shock Street

The Wood said:


> No, but it was close this week. Without effort too. If NXT got a hot-shot, it’d probably win pretty comfortably.


One has to to wonder what would happen if they just said fuck it and found an excuse for Orton to be on NXT for a couple weeks


----------



## .christopher.

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *That's funny considering your world champion in a gimmick match just got cooked by a regular women's main event*.
> *
> View attachment 94946
> *


I'll take Rhea Ripley over Kenny Olivier any day of the week, and twice on Sunday's.


holy said:


> It's funny, everytime Raw reaches record-low viewership (or near record-lows), everyone, including me, starts to think "man, it's only a matter of time before AEW Dynamite starts catching up with them in viewership."
> 
> EVERY time, in the SAME week, Dynamite seems to try to one-up Raw: "you think your show sucks? Wait till you see how bad ours is!" The result? Dynamite itself draws poor viewership, making you think "Nah, they ain't even catching up to Raw's viewership anytime soon..."


AEW isn't going to catch them, WWE is going to sink to their level.

Wrestling is dying. AEW had a chance to fix that but fucked it up with their amateurish shenanigans.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Geeee said:


> For reference, Canada has about 1/10th as many people as the US, so this is pretty much like getting a million views.


C'mon man..



Mr316 said:


> Here’s the problem, Tony Khan probably thinks that Private Party and The Acclaimed are amazing fresh new tag teams that are gonna hook new viewers. 😂


Yeah and there is the issue

"Oh he raps it worked for Cena so we'll do it also!"



The Wood said:


> It just dawned on me how ridiculous it is they pushed Joey Janela into a main event role. I’m numb to stupidity in wrestling, really. But they had a week off Sting and they thought “People also bought...” with _him_. Idiots.
> 
> They’re obsessed with Cornette. Never mind that Corny is right. That was all about Omega and Janela being “outlaw” and delivering a big number. But they pissed blood into their own mouths, because of course they did. Not like they gave him more ammo by being completely right, lol.
> 
> Bad content is bad, folks.


Not sure why Kenny couldn't have just smashed Matt Hardy. Hardy isn't great but at least it's a bit more interesting than Kenny Vs Nutella.



NathanMayberry said:


> Almost 300,000 people tuned out from "the biggest star in Wrestling" .. Its clear that Sting and Shaq were the draws.... and Kenny Omega is vastly overrated.


I think Kenny is fine they just needed to build him up better.

Imagine his evolution for the non smart mark. It'd be confusing.



BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *That's funny considering your world champion in a gimmick match just got cooked by a regular women's main event*.
> *
> View attachment 94946
> *


Two women aged 25 or under mind you. What a future these two have.


----------



## Pippen94

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *That's funny considering your world champion in a gimmick match just got cooked by a regular women's main event*.
> *
> View attachment 94946
> *


Like I said wwe Wednesday ratings inflated by extra long overrun


----------



## holy

.christopher. said:


> I'll take Rhea Ripley over Kenny Olivier any day of the week, and twice on Sunday's.
> 
> AEW isn't going to catch them, WWE is going to sink to their level.
> 
> Wrestling is dying. AEW had a chance to fix that but fucked it up with their amateurish shenanigans.


It's quite depressing, really. Wrestling does feel dead.


----------



## Pippen94

3venflow said:


> A big chunk of the audience had already gone by the time the main event came around. So even subtracting backyard Janela being in the main event, it's disingenuous to blame Kenny (who has been doing good ratings lately in the right context). If it had been the opening match it would've drawn a million. The problem was, the undercarder-filled show lost viewers consistently, especially in the second half.
> 
> If you're going to put undercarders on Dynamite, then team them with recognisable stars who are facing each other. ie. Miro/Kip vs. Cody/Sydal, Jericho/Hager/Sammy vs. Moxley/Top Flight, Death Triangle vs. MJF/Ortiz/Santana, Shida/Serena/Rosa vs. Britt/Ivellise/Diamante, Sting/Darby/Jungle Boy vs. Team Taz and so on. Those are just quick examples not related to storylines. That way, each segment has a better chance of retaining viewers because you have two big names opposite each other in most matches.


Strong start was probably lead in from show attracting non wrestling fans who were never going to stick around.


----------



## Pippen94

Ratings normalized this week but funny ppl attacking performance of show which finished #3 overall & no.1 in its main target demo - The bar has been raised


----------



## Tell it like it is

holy said:


> It's quite depressing, really. Wrestling does feel dead.


Some of you of think that wwe and aew are the only pro wrestling that exist. Pro Wrestling is thriving in Japan. Noah is having great wrestling.Go Shiozaki vs Takashi Sugiura had the best match of the year. But I bet most don't know who they are because 
they are to scared to get out the wwe bubble.


----------



## The Wood

This thing becoming a strain to wrestling is exactly what I feared, and people like Haphazard were threatened with bans from Alvarez for even raising. 



Tell it like it is said:


> Some of you of think that wwe and aew are the only pro wrestling that exist. Pro Wrestling is thriving in Japan. Noah is having great wrestling.Go Shiozaki vs Takashi Sugiura had the best match of the year. But I bet most don't know who they are because
> they are to scared to get out the wwe bubble.


I’ve got nothing against NOAH, but their image has been damaged by themselves, and that’s their responsibility. It’s up to wrestling to appeal to people, not up to people to find wrestling.


----------



## holy

The Wood said:


> This thing becoming
> 
> 
> I’ve got nothing against NOAH, but their image has been damaged by themselves, and that’s their responsibility. It’s up to wrestling to appeal to people, not up to people to find wrestling.


THIS! We shouldn't be having to go out of our way to find good wrestling programming: it should be appealing enough to catch our attention and make us want to watch.


----------



## Tell it like it is

The Wood said:


> This thing becoming
> 
> 
> I’ve got nothing against NOAH, but their image has been damaged by themselves, and that’s their responsibility. It’s up to wrestling to appeal to people, not up to people to find wrestling.


Well I think NOAH had a better year than NJPW. I've honestly been pretty underwhelmed by NJPW this year, the main events (outside of the Tokyo Dome) haven't really been clicking with me


----------



## The Wood

Tell it like it is said:


> Well I think NOAH had a better year than NJPW. I've honestly been pretty underwhelmed by NJPW this year, the main events (outside of the Tokyo Dome) haven't really been clicking with me


That’s cool. You’re allowed to like NOAH.


----------



## Tell it like it is

The Wood said:


> That’s cool. You’re allowed to like NOAH.


Like I said man, if wwe or aew ain't working for me I got other companies. But I don't know how anyone could say pro wrestling is dying. Maybe western but not in other countries.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Not sure why Kenny couldn't have just smashed Matt Hardy. Hardy isn't great but at least it's a bit more interesting than Kenny Vs Nutella.


Matt Hardy has yet to do the job for anyone.


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Ratings normalized this week but funny ppl attacking performance of show which finished #3 overall & no.1 in its main target demo - The bar has been raised


Because despite still doing good ratings wise they had a huge drop off. Which implies that their big moves aren't getting more fans to stick yet. People are looking at the last 2 episodes and wondering if that's why people aren't sticking.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The guy who mentioned Japan thriving is right. Territory style promotion's still exist and the fans are happy to at least pretend to believe it's all real


----------



## DammitChrist

.christopher. said:


> I'll take Rhea Ripley over* Kenny Olivier* any day of the week, and twice on Sunday's.


Who?

Why are you talking about a 'wrestler' who doesn't even exist?



> AEW isn't going to catch them, WWE is going to sink to their level.
> 
> *Wrestling is dying. *AEW had a chance to fix that but fucked it up with their amateurish shenanigans.


Except that wrestling isn't dying. Cut it out.


----------



## The Wood

Tell it like it is said:


> Like I said man, if wwe or aew ain't working for me I got other companies. But I don't know how anyone could say pro wrestling is dying. Maybe western but not in other countries.


Well you answered your own question there. If it maybe is from a western perspective, that’s what people in the west are going to think. If Hollywood went belly-up Bollywood isn’t necessarily going to fill that void for them.

Japan seems to be doing fine, within scale. New Japan has recovered from Inokism, but not to the point it once was. But that is only the answer to some.

People are hungry for the wrestling they know and love on a platform they can readily access and can share with other people without being completely embarrassed. THAT doesn’t exist. And it won’t come back until October 2021 when The Rock’s new wrestling show launches on NBC and immediately puts AEW and WWE to shame in terms of its sheer popularity out the gate. And that will actually generate some new wrestling fans to help boost New Japan and NOAH’s market too.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Pippen94 said:


> Like I said wwe Wednesday ratings inflated by extra long overrun


*Because less than 5 minutes is "extra long." Lol no*


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

.christopher. said:


> I'll take Rhea Ripley over Kenny Olivier any day of the week, and twice on Sunday's.
> 
> AEW isn't going to catch them, WWE is going to sink to their level.
> 
> Wrestling is dying. AEW had a chance to fix that but fucked it up with their amateurish shenanigans.


*Agreed, British Cornette 😂*


----------



## 3venflow

NXT's overrun gained them 115k. I wonder when AEW's first overrun will be. Excalibur said the Kenny/Mox match would be shown till the end even if it went overtime and yet they seemed to rush to wrap it up in time?

Q1: KUSHIDA & Leon Ruff vs. Johnny Gargano & Austin Theory – 743,000 viewers, 230,000 in 18-49
Q2: Legado del Fantasma promo/Shotzi Blackheart promo/Tyler Rust vs. Tommaso Ciampa – 734,000 viewers (down 9,000), 247,000 in 18-49 (up 17,000)
Q3: End of Rust vs. Ciampa/Grizzled Young Veterans promo – 695,000 viewers (down 39,000), 223,000 in 18-49 (down 24,000)
Q4: Pete Dunne vs. Kyle O’Reilly – 742,000 viewers (up 47,000), 246,000 in 18-49 (up 23,000)
Q5: End of Dunne vs. O’Reilly – 843,000 viewers (up 101,000), 293,000 in 18-49 (up 47,000)
Q6: Rhea Ripley interview/Xia Li & Boa segment/Shotzi Blackheart vs. Indi Hartwell – 801,000 viewers (down 42,000), 271,000 in 18-49 (down 22,000)
Q7: Karrion Kross vs. Desmond Troy/Ever-Rise interview/Isaiah Scott interview – 764,000 viewers (down 37,000), 251,000 in 18-49 (down 20,000)
Q8: Rhea Ripley vs. Toni Storm – 772,000 viewers (up 8,000), 241,000 in 18-49 (down 10,000)
Overrun: End of Ripley vs. Storm – 887,000 viewers (up 115,000)


----------



## The Wood

Whose ass would you rather watch? Toni Storm’s or Joey Janela’s?


----------



## Shock Street

The Wood said:


> People are hungry for the wrestling they know and love on a platform they can readily access and can share with other people without being completely embarrassed.


I would love to share AEW with other people but I know they're gonna just see this:










And then the question becomes "why the fuck do you like this" and it's going to be extremely tough to explain I spend two hours a week hoping a depressed cowboy and Team Taz show up.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *That's funny considering your world champion in a gimmick match just got cooked by a regular women's main event*.
> *
> View attachment 94946
> *


Which means jack shit to me lol.How does that change my opinion?

Womans wrestling is an afterthought as it should be.


----------



## The Wood

Shock Street said:


> I would love to share AEW with other people but I know they're gonna just see this:
> 
> View attachment 94952
> 
> 
> And then the question becomes "why the fuck do you like this" and it's going to be extremely tough to explain I spend two hours a week hoping a depressed cowboy and Team Taz show up.


This post cracked me up, and holy shit is that gif so bad. I bet you Meltzer praised that match too.


----------



## Shock Street

The Wood said:


> This post cracked me up, and holy shit is that gif so bad. I bet you Meltzer praised that match too.


4.25 stars. Whos to say why .25.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

holy said:


> THIS! We shouldn't be having to go out of our way to find good wrestling programming: it should be appealing enough to catch our attention and make us want to watch.


Except you're not going out of your way to find it. Any type of wrestling out there is readily available and is only a few clicks/presses away. It's not that hard. Noone has to spoon feed you anything.


----------



## The Wood

Shock Street said:


> 4.25 stars. Whos to say why .25.


That is incredible. 



The Raw Smackdown said:


> Except you're not going out of your way to find it. Any type of wrestling out there is readily available and is only a few clicks/presses away. It's not that hard. Noone has to spoon feed you anything.


It is literally the responsibility of a content provider to make their content as easily accessible as possible. It’s certainly in their best interest to. If people don’t give a shit about your product enough to go out and look for it, then that is on you.

And some content creators are happy with that. Too much demand can be its own problem. But the idea that the onus is on the wrestling fan to entertain themselves and put in hard work for these promotions is...well, let’s see how well that goes for ya, hey?


----------



## Klitschko

They lost 1/5th of their audience in a week. Damn.


----------



## One Shed

Hi Ho Silver: (Audience) AWAY!


----------



## La Parka

holy said:


> It's funny, everytime Raw reaches record-low viewership (or near record-lows), everyone, including me, starts to think "man, it's only a matter of time before AEW Dynamite starts catching up with them in viewership."
> 
> EVERY time, in the SAME week, Dynamite seems to try to one-up Raw: "you think your show sucks? Wait till you see how bad ours is!" The result? Dynamite itself draws poor viewership, making you think "Nah, they ain't even catching up to Raw's viewership anytime soon..."


AEWs ability to snatch defeat in the jaws of victory is unmatched.


----------



## bdon

La Parka said:


> AEWs ability to snatch defeat in the jaws of victory is unmatched.


WWE is begging them to steal their thunder, and Tony is too nice and insisting Vince keep it.


----------



## Klitschko

bdon said:


> WWE is begging them to steal their thunder, and Tony is too nice and insisting Vince keep it.


That got a laugh out of me. So accurate.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Which means jack shit to me lol.How does that change my opinion?
> 
> Womans wrestling is an afterthought as it should be.


*Then Kenny Omega is a complete nobody since he routinely gets outdrawn by good women's wrestling.*


----------



## The Wood

Women’s wrestling is fine if emphasised in the right way. It’s all about emphasis. If you have 100 girls that are all presented like stars then you have no stars. When you’ve got a Rhea Ripley or a Toni Storm though, you’ve got a reason to watch.

Women get the advantage of hooking the pervy men too. It’s also a good idea to make female fans. That doesn’t necessarily need women to be the focus (women like watching men) but it’s great to have female stars who are going to appeal to them, he role models and be figures that are worth supporting.

Little girls who idolise Rhea Ripley or Sasha Banks or Becky Lynch are going to grow up and be great normalisers for your content when they reach adulthood.


----------



## THANOS

NathanMayberry said:


> Almost 300,000 people tuned out from "the biggest star in Wrestling" .. Its clear that Sting and Shaq were the draws.... and Kenny Omega is vastly overrated.


Except last week in the minute breakdown, he drew the 2nd highest to Sting, so try harder...

This can be chalked up fully to Janela.


----------



## imthegame19

bdon said:


> Matt Hardy has yet to do the job for anyone.


He lost to Sammy in one of their four matches.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Then Kenny Omega is a complete nobody since he routinely gets outdrawn by good women's wrestling.*


Again you're completely whiffing .....none of this changes my opinion.Womans wrestling is not on the level of men's wrestling much like many professional sports.

It's gotten better since the bra n panties matches but I've still yet to see a womans match that got me invested even half as much as the big men's stars......that's including WWE.


----------



## The Wood

THANOS said:


> Except last week in the minute breakdown, he drew the 2nd highest to Sting, so try harder...
> 
> This can be chalked up fully to Janella.


Even if it weren’t Omega, they’re clearly not living and dying with him. They’d rather not watch him and Janela because of Janela than for him.

It‘a also possible that a lot of people heard the hype about him, checked him out, realised he’s overrated, and tuned back out.

People make the mistake of thinking the number of people watching your product is the number of people liking it. Vince Russo loves to gloat about This Is Your Life, but where did those people go? It’s better to fall on your ass in private than on your wedding day.

950k people may have watched Omega working with Moxley and a good chunk of them may have said “This guy’s the World Champion? Yeah, not for me.”

Some things are also just the straw that breaks the camel’s back. Did 1 million people tune in for The Young Bucks, or did The Young Bucks trigger the first groan that led to 200k people tuning out?


----------



## imthegame19

DammitChrist said:


> Except that wrestling isn't dying. Cut it out.


It's the opposite of dying lol. Again people freak out and react to these ratings. Yet wrestling is more valuable to tv then ever before and companies are making more money then ever before. 


WWE is going to make over 2 billion dollars from tv from 2019 to 2024. AEW can potentially make 275 million plus(with ad revenue split) if their 5th year 100 million option gets picked up. With that kind of money from USA tv alone. Wrestling is long ways from dying. 


The fact AEW lost 190,000 viewers and a lot of them younger viewers this week. Yet were still top 3 ranked show this Wednesday night. Or Raw had all time low rating and still were top 10 rated show. Tells you wrestling doing just fine by today's tv standards.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Again you're completely whiffing .....none of this changes my opinion.Womans wrestling is not on the level of men's wrestling much like many professional sports.
> 
> It's gotten better since the bra n panties matches but I've still yet to see a womans match that got me invested even half as much as the big men's stars......that's including WWE.


*







*


----------



## The Wood

The bubble is great for Vince and fine for the Khans right now, but bubbles pop. Wrestling benefitting from the death rattle of another dying industry doesn’t mean that people are going to be willing to watch enough to justify this shit forever.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

The Wood said:


> That is incredible.
> 
> 
> 
> It is literally the responsibility of a content provider to make their content as easily accessible as possible. It’s certainly in their best interest to. If people don’t give a shit about your product enough to go out and look for it, then that is on you.
> 
> And some content creators are happy with that. Too much demand can be its own problem. But the idea that the onus is on the wrestling fan to entertain themselves and put in hard work for these promotions is...well, let’s see how well that goes for ya, hey?


I don't see how your laziness and entitlement is the content creators problem but okay.


----------



## The Wood

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I don't see how your laziness and entitlement is the content creators problem but okay.


Because you want people to watch your content. If you have a choice between TNT and AXS, which one are you going to choose?

If something becomes a chore, less people are going to want to do it. That is absolutely a content creator’s problem.


----------



## DammitChrist

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Again you're completely whiffing .....none of this changes my opinion.Womans wrestling is not on the level of men's wrestling much like many professional sports.
> 
> It's gotten better since the bra n panties matches *but I've still yet to see a womans match that got me invested even half as much as the big men's stars......that's including WWE.*


You weren't fond of the Io Shirai vs Rhea Ripley match (from WWE) nor the Hikaru Shida vs Thunder Rosa match (from AEW)?

I thought both of those contests were the best women's (singles) wrestling matches this year from their respective promotions


----------



## .christopher.

imthegame19 said:


> It's the opposite of dying lol. Again people freak out and react to these ratings. Yet wrestling is more valuable to tv then ever before and companies are making more money then ever before.
> 
> 
> WWE is going to make over 2 billion dollars from tv from 2019 to 2024. AEW can potentially make 275 million plus(with ad revenue split) if their 5th year 100 million option gets picked up. With that kind of money from USA tv alone. Wrestling is long ways from dying.
> 
> 
> The fact AEW lost 190,000 viewers and a lot of them younger viewers this week. Yet were still top 3 ranked show this Wednesday night. Or Raw had all time low rating and still were top 10 rated show. Tells you wrestling doing just fine by today's tv standards.


We'll come back to this post in a few years. After millions of more fans give up, which is inevitable when you look at the decline post 2001, I'll hit you up.


----------



## bdon

imthegame19 said:


> He lost to Sammy in one of their four matches.


Read what you just said again.

One...of the FOUR.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Because you want people to watch your content. If you have a choice between TNT and AXS, which one are you going to choose?
> 
> If something becomes a chore, less people are going to want to do it. That is absolutely a content creator’s problem.


I STILL don’t watch MLW or ROH, despite @The Wood and a few others suggesting I do so, BECAUSE it is too much of a hassle. Most audiences do not want to watch shitty production values on a wrestling program that feels like they have to go to the basement of some back alley bar where you knock on the door and ask for Fast Tony.

If it isn’t easily accessible for most, then it isn’t worth the time.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Shock Street said:


> One has to to wonder what would happen if they just said fuck it and found an excuse for Orton to be on NXT for a couple weeks


If WWE were interested in actually fighting Dynamite, they could pay a whole bunch of stars and celebrities to come on NXT every week. 

There is a massive chasm between how much AEW spends and NXT spends and the ratings reflected it. Shaq isn't cheap, neither is Sting.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Hot damn what a drop. Seems to me fans were not that interested by heel Champ Omega. Or at least that storyline. It is not particularly nWo-invasion level if you catch my drift. Look TK appearing like a moron on Impact didn't help. It kills any seriousness the storyline might have had.



Joe Gill said:


> this company doesnt understand killer instinct or building off momentum. Whenever they have a huge show like a ppv or winter is coming they follow it up with slowing everything down to a grinding halt and ruining momentum... which is literally the opposite if what you should be doing. The night after wrestlemania was usually the most anticipated raw of the year.. you couldnt wait to see how austin, rock, hhh etc were going to respond. They expect fans to get emotionally invested in wrestlers and storylines and then just drop them cold turkey with no explanation or follow through. They spent the last 8 months building up moxley like hes the next steve austin... he gets screwed out of the belt and now he just disappears? you dont think that the fans would be interested in seeing a moxley omega confrontation of some sort? you dont think that would help boost the ratings and keep them near 1 million? its just common sense... but nope... gotta have pointless SCU tag matches and dork order jobbers vs goldust instead... and joey freaking janella who looks like garbage on tv in your main event.


They are like anti-Attitude Era, basically. Every Raw were uber hot and they kept it hot. What AEW does is anti-heat. Cause TK has no testosterone in his body, he doesn't feel the desire to go for the jugular. That is why AEW is all over the place, cause the wrestlers thinks they can do what they want cause they don't have a real boss holding them accountable. He's the anti-Tom Cruise. lol


----------



## NathanMayberry

Pippen94 said:


> Like I said wwe Wednesday ratings inflated by extra long overrun


I wonder what artificially inflates a rating more, an overrun or Sting and Shaq?


----------



## tower_

3venflow said:


> Kenny vs. Janela did only 718,000 viewers with 419,000 in 18-49. Why they'd put Janela in the main event is beyond me, but that seems to be the result.
> 
> I still don't have the full data (anyone here have a WON sub? It's in that), but apparently AEW slumped in the second hour and NXT had more viewers (but far less in the 18-49).


They really bungled things by sticking to their original plan of drawing storylines out forever and letting Omega get the title first instead of Hangman. Hangman was hot and becoming the most over face in the company - the type of guy who needs the title (Omega's "star" if it ever existed has fallen and he needs the title to get over too, but imagine if the 'screw job' they pulled was early in Hangman's reign when he was super over) to really reach the top but this company has no concept of how wrestling works. When Daniel Bryan got over they would have put him in a story with Cody and buried him


----------



## tower_

Chip Chipperson said:


> The guy who mentioned Japan thriving is right. Territory style promotion's still exist and the fans are happy to at least pretend to believe it's all real


Main difference you notice between wrestling in Japan and Mexico vs the States is you see hot women in the crowds at the former and fat dudes in the crowds of the latter


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

bdon said:


> I STILL don’t watch MLW or ROH, despite @The Wood and a few others suggesting I do so, BECAUSE it is too much of a hassle. Most audiences do not want to watch shitty production values on a wrestling program that feels like they have to go to the basement of some back alley bar where you knock on the door and ask for Fast Tony.
> 
> If it isn’t easily accessible for most, then it isn’t worth the time.


So you can take the time to come on here and complain endlessly about Cody yet Going on YouTube, Typing MLW, going to their page and start watching is a hassle? Or just going to fite network, typing in ROH and watching it FOR FREE is a hassle?

Just say you don't wanna do it and go.


----------



## RapShepard

The Raw Smackdown said:


> So you can take the time to come on here and complain endlessly about Cody yet Going on YouTube, Typing MLW, going to their page and start watching is a hassle? Or just going to fite network, typing in ROH and watching it FOR FREE is a hassle?
> 
> Just say you don't wanna do it and go.


The more things you ask somebody to do who isn't already sold on you, the more likely they are to just say fuck it. Why else do you think Dark does only a 1/3 of Dynamite views despite being available globally on a free platform like YouTube? Most wrestling fans are used to watching their wrestling shows on TV. When you deviate from that you're making an extra step that some clearly aren't going to bother with.


----------



## validreasoning

Omega should have beaten Moxley clean. We didn't need this over the top sports entertainment storyline that nobody is buying. Like I said few days ago if you go that route the audience has to buy into it like Punk running down his contract or Vince/HHH/Stephanie really holding Bryan down and not wanting him to be WWE champion..those were storylines you could suspend disbelief with not this.

What you have now is essentially a weak AEW champion and former champion that looks weak after losing to microphone hit. They really fucked up what should have been simple enough.



tower_ said:


> They really bungled things by sticking to their original plan of drawing storylines out forever and letting Omega get the title first instead of Hangman. Hangman was hot and becoming the most over face in the company - the type of guy who needs the title (Omega's "star" if it ever existed has fallen and he needs the title to get over too, but imagine if the 'screw job' they pulled was early in Hangman's reign when he was super over) to really reach the top but this company has no concept of how wrestling works. When Daniel Bryan got over they would have put him in a story with Cody and buried him


Page will get run with title but I don't see him as ever been over enough during that run to be champion. Omegas a much bigger name and should have been the inaugural AEW champion not Jericho.

As for Page he needs to drop the whole Cowboy James Storm tribute act if he is to be taken seriously as a top guy. Screams midcard to me under current gimmick.


----------



## tower_

He was becoming the top face in the company at the end of the Bucks feud while tag champs with Omega. Omega is not really a name in the West, sure the IWC has either watched his Japan stuff or heard of it but the wider audience needs a reason to care about him. That's why you see him subject to wide ratings swings - put him in a match with Mox, it does hotcakes. Put him in a match with Janela? Well you can look back a few pages at the results. Even on the internet if you sort AEW's youtube page by views he's not on any of the top videos. He's not a star yet. Hangman isn't either, but you had the heat to make him one. Honestly COVID got in the way with the timing so I'm not going to blame them too much but they do seem very rigid in their planning and I think this is a big reason why none of the post-launch additions have been big splashes yet. If you bring in Lance Archer but he can't do anything but job to the stars because you have a plan for the stars, what good is he?


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

RapShepard said:


> The more things you ask somebody to do who isn't already sold on you, the more likely they are to just say fuck it. Why else do you think Dark does only a 1/3 of Dynamite views despite being available globally on a free platform like YouTube? Most wrestling fans are used to watching their wrestling shows on TV. When you deviate from that you're making an extra step that some clearly aren't going to bother with.


But let's not sit here and act like it's a big chore and a hassle though. If you don't wanna watch wrestling thats not on TV fine but like I said before just say that shit and go. Period. Going online to watch wrestling is not hard at all.

My point still stands.


----------



## RapShepard

The Raw Smackdown said:


> But let's not sit here and act like it's a big chore and a hassle though. If you don't wanna watch wrestling thats not on TV fine but like I said before just say that shit and go. Period. Going online to watch wrestling is not hard at all.
> 
> My point still stands.


Your point is just ignoring real life though because you want to make it black and white ordeal. Think of it like this, have you ever had a taste for a certain restaurant but ended up not getting it because it was a smidge further than where you felt like driving? Doesn't mean you didn't want it or wasn't interested. Just was a little step extra you weren't feeling


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

RapShepard said:


> Your point is just ignoring real life though because you want to make it black and white ordeal. Think of it like this, have you ever had a taste for a certain restaurant but ended up not getting it because it was a smidge further than where you felt like driving? Doesn't mean you didn't want it or wasn't interested. Just was a little step extra you weren't feeling


YOU are the one that's ignoring real life because these days you don't have to drive to a damn restaurant. Just order the shit on Doordash if you can't be bothered to drive. It's not hard..which is my point.

You're also ignoring my point just to argue. If you don't want to do was necessary to watch something then that's fine but don't act like it's so hard when it's readily available. Tv is not the only accessable way to watch something. It's cut and dry. Black and white. 

Once again. My point Still stands.


----------



## RapShepard

The Raw Smackdown said:


> YOU are the one that's ignoring real life because these days you don't have to drive to a damn restaurant. Just order the shit on Doordash if you can't be bothered to drive. It's not hard..which is my point.
> 
> You're also ignoring my point just to argue. If you don't want to do was necessary to watch something then that's fine but don't act like it's so hard when it's readily available. Tv is not the only accessable way to watch something. It's cut and dry. Black and white.
> 
> Once again. My point Still stands.


Not everything is on door dash and especially going to specific areas, this is like common sense if you actually use the app. Your point ignores a lot because you want to make something black and white that isn't. 

Put it like this, there's a reason Tony made sure to get Dynamite on cable and not YouTube or FiteTv and I'm sure you can guess why. YouTube despite being a huge platform with billions of user isn't a place most people go for long form serial content at the moment. And FiteTv is a small app that hardly anyone knows about. 

Those are not optimal place to run a professional wrestling promotion.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

@validreasoning *Jericho was the perfect choice for the inaugural Champion for multiple reasons.

*He had the most name recognition by far
*He was riding the strongest wave of momentum at the time
*He's at the twilight of his career while Kenny Omega is at his peak
*Kenny did the right thing by mid-carding for a year and letting others get an opportunity in the main event

I also have no problem with the way Kenny won the championship because it was a good way to turn him heel and get him a manager so he can talk less and not expose his biggest weakness on national television.

*


----------



## bdon

The Raw Smackdown said:


> YOU are the one that's ignoring real life because these days you don't have to drive to a damn restaurant. Just order the shit on Doordash if you can't be bothered to drive. It's not hard..which is my point.
> 
> You're also ignoring my point just to argue. If you don't want to do was necessary to watch something then that's fine but don't act like it's so hard when it's readily available. Tv is not the only accessable way to watch something. It's cut and dry. Black and white.
> 
> Once again. My point Still stands.


Except we’re proven right by the fact so many, like myself, refuse to take that extra step. lol


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

RapShepard said:


> Not everything is on door dash and especially going to specific areas, this is like common sense if you actually use the app. Your point ignores a lot because you want to make something black and white that isn't.
> 
> Put it like this, there's a reason Tony made sure to get Dynamite on cable and not YouTube or FiteTv and I'm sure you can guess why. YouTube despite being a huge platform with billions of user isn't a place most people go for long form serial content at the moment. And FiteTv is a small app that hardly anyone knows about.
> 
> Those are not optimal place to run a professional wrestling promotion.


Obviously not everything is on doordash so of you can't find it oh well. Just say that you don't want to drive to the restaurant and that's it. That's my point and I can understand it too. Driving can be a bitch sometimes but that's not the same thing as pressing a few buttons on phone or a computer.

Did I say that any wrestling company is good to run on YouTube or Fite? No. what I said was is that it's not hard to go on there and watch wrestling if you really wanted to. Key word here is want. Don't wanna do it? Fine. Just don't call it a hassle because it isn't. I'm not ignoring anything. If people really want to watch something they can. Especially if it's readily available to them.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

bdon said:


> Except we’re proven right by the fact so many, like myself, refuse to take that extra step. lol


Except I'm proven right by how easy it is to watch wrestling online if you really wanted to. Just like it's easy to come here and endlessly complain about AEW.


----------



## RapShepard

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Obviously not everything is on doordash so of you can't find it oh well. Just say that you don't want to drive to the restaurant and that's it. That's my point and I can understand it too. Driving can be a bitch sometimes but that's not the same thing as pressing a few buttons on phone or a computer.
> 
> Did I say that any wrestling company is good to run on YouTube or Fite? No. what I said was is that it's not hard to go on there and watch wrestling if you really wanted to. Key word here is want. Don't wanna do it? Fine. Just don't call it a hassle because it isn't. I'm not ignoring anything. If people really want to watch something they can. Especially if it's readily available to them.


But it being inconvenient for some by definition it would be a hassle. If somebody says "yeah I don't feel like download Fite and then setting up an account" that means watching ROH is a hassle. Just like driving can be a bitch so can having to download extra apps and set up accounts. Hell I got YouTube premium just because the ads got to be overbearing and making watching shit become a hassle.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

RapShepard said:


> But it being inconvenient for some by definition it would be a hassle. If somebody says "yeah I don't feel like download Fite and then setting up an account" that means watching ROH is a hassle. Just like driving can be a bitch so can having to download extra apps and set up accounts. Hell I got YouTube premium just because the ads got to be overbearing and making watching shit become a hassle.


But it's not a hassle. They just don't want to do it. Just because you don't want to do something that takes a few minutes doesn't automatically make it a hassle. That's just being lazy and that's okay... I can be lazy as fuck but let's not sit here and bullshit.


----------



## bdon

The Raw Smackdown said:


> But it's not a hassle. They just don't want to do it. Just because you don't want to do something that takes a few minutes doesn't automatically make it a hassle. That's just being lazy and that's okay... I can be lazy as fuck but let's not sit here and bullshit.


What is a hassle for you, may not be to us and vice versa. More people side with me on this. We’d rather not go out of our way to go to YouTube, take the time to figure out chronological order of the shows, etc. We want the wrestling to be simple to access and simple to follow. It currently isn’t.

Hopefully Omega’s dream of making a larger, connected universe comes to fruition raising awareness of the entire industry and making it easier to follow.


----------



## 3venflow

MLW is easy enough to watch, to be honest. There's a playlist of all their shows in chronological order.



https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLz-1tQr6WGHUdH-CgtnDYPX08iCO0AkT4


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

3venflow said:


> MLW is easy enough to watch, to be honest. There's a playlist of all their shows in chronological order.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLz-1tQr6WGHUdH-CgtnDYPX08iCO0AkT4


I bet that didn't even take a minute for you to do.
But it's soo hard to go online and watch wrestling lol.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

bdon said:


> What is a hassle for you, may not be to us and vice versa. More people side with me on this. We’d rather not go out of our way to go to YouTube, take the time to figure out chronological order of the shows, etc. We want the wrestling to be simple to access and simple to follow. It currently isn’t.
> 
> Hopefully Omega’s dream of making a larger, connected universe comes to fruition raising awareness of the entire industry and making it easier to follow.


Okay cool. You wanna be lazy about it that's on you and everyone that agrees with you. No skin off my ass. I'm not saying you have to do anything but I'm calling it what it is.


----------



## RapShepard

The Raw Smackdown said:


> But it's not a hassle. They just don't want to do it. Just because you don't want to do something that takes a few minutes doesn't automatically make it a hassle. That's just being lazy and that's okay... I can be lazy as fuck but let's not sit here and bullshit.


It's not bull shitting it's just how it is. A hassle doesn't have to be this complex effort heavy ordeal to be a hassle. If you're comfy and relaxing, but you have to get up to open the door because your kid forget their key, that can be a hassle.


----------



## One Shed

RapShepard said:


> It's not bull shitting it's just how it is. A hassle doesn't have to be this complex effort heavy ordeal to be a hassle. If you're comfy and relaxing, but you have to get up to open the door because your kid forget their key, that can be a hassle.


Getting my parents to even use Blu ray vs DVD was a hassle. I cannot imagine actually telling my dad to stream some YouTube show on his TV. Sure, it is technically quite easy and accessible, but you still need to know how to do it. Older people and people not good with tech are not going to do it. They hate change.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

RapShepard said:


> It's not bull shitting it's just how it is. A hassle doesn't have to be this complex effort heavy ordeal to be a hassle. If you're comfy and relaxing, but you have to get up to open the door because your kid forget their key, that can be a hassle.


No. That's being lazy and I'm not budging on it.


----------



## RapShepard

Two Sheds said:


> Getting my parents to even use Blu ray vs DVD was a hassle. I cannot imagine actually telling my dad to stream some YouTube show on his TV. Sure, it is technically quite easy and accessible, but you still need to know how to do it. Older people and people not good with tech are not going to do it. They hate change.


Old people and technology are the fucking worst lol. My grandfather has had a pad since 2013 and somehow is no smarter on how to use one than when he first got it [emoji849][emoji23]. Can play and download the fuck out of games and watch YouTube. But figuring out volume and how to cut WiFi on, too much.


----------



## RapShepard

The Raw Smackdown said:


> No. That's being lazy and I'm not budging on it.


Aye it be like that


----------



## One Shed

The Raw Smackdown said:


> No. That's being lazy and I'm not budging on it.


A lot of it is a generational thing. I assure you that ordering something on Doordash is a much larger hassle for older people and people who suck at tech (which is a lot of people) than just driving a few miles.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Two Sheds said:


> A lot of it is a generational thing. I assure you that ordering something on Doordash is a much larger hassle for older people and people who suck at tech (which is a lot of people) than just driving a few miles.


I don't remember saying anything about older people but okay. Plus you just said they hate change so they're not going to do it which is fine. But let's not make excuses. And as far as people who aren't good at tech... well they can easily get better at it. Technology is apart of our daily lives. You should at least know how to use a damn smartphone.


----------



## One Shed

RapShepard said:


> Old people and technology are the fucking worst lol. My grandfather has had a pad since 2013 and somehow is no smarter on how to use one than when he first got it [emoji849][emoji23]. Can play and download the fuck out of games and watch YouTube. But figuring out volume and how to cut WiFi on, too much.


When my grandmother was alive, I bought her just an email station. Literally a box with a screen and a button to click send. I added my mom and her other daughter as recipients. No emails were ever sent.

Likewise, she could easily repair something like clothes being ripped very quickly. Something that I would find tedious and avoid. Not everyone is good with tech.


----------



## One Shed

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I don't remember saying anything about older people but okay.


You said not watching things online when they are free is being lazy. In most cases it is a lack of knowledge and the level of effort for them to learn it is large. So not lazy. Older people are just one example.


----------



## validreasoning

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> @validreasoning *Jericho was the perfect choice for the inaugural Champion for multiple reasons.
> 
> *He had the most name recognition by far
> *He was riding the strongest wave of momentum at the time
> *He's at the twilight of his career while Kenny Omega is at his peak
> *Kenny did the right thing by mid-carding for a year and letting others get an opportunity in the main event
> 
> I also have no problem with the way Kenny won the championship because it was a good way to turn him heel and get him a manager so he can talk less and not expose his biggest weakness on national television.
> 
> *


Disagree. In NJPW Jericho lost to Omega and business improved dramatically especially from North America. Omega was the guy coming off two Tokyo Dome mainevents and long run as IWGP champion not Jericho. Omega was the most sought after free agent in pro wrestling since the end of the Monday night war not Jericho. 

Plus the whole thing was trying to show you are show how different from WWE you supposedly are then put the belt on a WWE guy out the gate made no sense.

Also Omega mainevented the first ever show AEW so him falling down on a year long midcard run was mind boggling.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Two Sheds said:


> You said not watching things online when they are free is being lazy. In most cases it is a lack of knowledge and the level of effort for them to learn it is large. So not lazy. Older people are just one example.


Google is Free.

So yeah lazy.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

validreasoning said:


> Disagree. In NJPW Jericho lost to Omega and business improved dramatically especially from North America. Omega was the guy coming off two Tokyo Dome mainevents and long run as IWGP champion not Jericho. Omega was the most sought after free agent in pro wrestling since the end of the Monday night war not Jericho.
> 
> Plus the whole thing was trying to show you are show how different from WWE then put the belt on a WWE guy made no sense.
> 
> Also Omega mainevented the first ever show AEW so him falling down a year long midcard run was mind boggling.


*The result of that feud doesn't matter because Jericho made the feud. Jericho going to New Japan in and of itself was a really big deal because nobody thought Vince would allow it, so for Jericho to cross brands like that and show everyone what he looks like without handcuffs really raised his stock in wrestling since he was viewed as a washed-up comedy jobber prior to that.*


----------



## DammitChrist

Nah, he’s right about Chris Jericho being a great choice to be the inaugural world champion of AEW when the company initially started. 

Jericho was the biggest star that they had in the company last year, so it was smart of them to give a big established name to hold the AEW World title for several months.

I’d rather have Kenny Omega get his 1st (lengthy) world title reign as a top heel.


----------



## One Shed

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Google is Free.
> 
> So yeah lazy.


Your continued black and white thinking on this is pretty ridiculous. A lot of people are not good at using technology. Why my "lazy" parents do not just buy smart TVs, learn how to connect them to WiFi (that would require them to know what that password is to begin with), install and configure the apps needed to play YouTube (including signing up for an account, creating a password for that account, checking their email to confirm that account, typing that password into the app on the TV using a TV remote), etc. Man, why do all these old people and technophobes just stop being so LAZY?

Ridiculous argument. Assuming all people have the same technical knowledge and skills is the lazy argument here.


----------



## bdon

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Google is Free.
> 
> So yeah lazy.


People won’t tune into TNT long enough to gain a vested interest in even the GOOD parts of AEW, but you expect them to sift through fucking YouTube shows, not knowing where the weekly show begins or chronological order, and all of these hoops for a product and roster that they have no clue they’ll even enjoy?

That simply isn’t how this shit works. If that were the case, mom and pop restaurants would see similar sales as the big chain restaurants.

Tony Khan, is that you!?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Your point is just ignoring real life though because you want to make it black and white ordeal. Think of it like this, have you ever had a taste for a certain restaurant but ended up not getting it because it was a smidge further than where you felt like driving? Doesn't mean you didn't want it or wasn't interested. Just was a little step extra you weren't feeling


*Cosigned as someone who just came back from Popeye's because Wendy's was too far.*


----------



## One Shed

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Cosigned as someone who just came back from Popeye's because Wendy's was too far.*


Well Popeye's is the infinitely superior choice there too


----------



## RapShepard

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Cosigned as someone who just came back from Popeye's because Wendy's was too far.*


The wicked shrimp box is my thing right now


----------



## 3venflow

Since Dynamite is now over a year old, I've put the ratings for each equivalent show side-by-side.

*10/2/19: 1,409,000 (Episode #1)*
9/30/20: 866,000

*10/9/19: 1,140,000*
10/7/20: 753,000

*10/16/19: 1,014,000*
10/14/20: 826,000

*10/23/19: 963,000*
10/21/20: 753,000

10/30/19: 759,000
*10/28/20: 781,000

11/6/19: 822,000*
11/4/20: 717,000

*11/13/19: 957,000*
11/11/20: 764,000

*11/20/19: 893,000*
11/18/20: 850,000

11/27/19: 663,000
*11/25/20: 712,000*

12/4/19: 851,000
*12/2/20: 913,000*

12/11/19: 778,000
*12/9/20: 995,000*

12/18/19: 683,000
*12/16/20: 806,000*

So 2019 had seven winners while 2020 has five winners. However, as you can see, 2020 has beaten 2019's equivalent ratings in the last four weeks, including the two shows before Winter is Coming, so there's a positive to take from that.

Summary: AEW lost viewers at the start, then again earlier this year (7 out of 13 episodes from April to July did under 700k - NO episodes have gone below 700k since) but has won back or gained new viewers since then.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> The wicked shrimp box is my thing right now


*The spicy chicken sandwich is my shit, but so we don't get yelled at for off-topic discussion again, the analogy was perfect. As someone who uses phone apps and YouTube constantly, it is not my desired place to watch a multi hour wrestling program. I like sitting comfortably in front of my big screen TV instead of looking down on my phone or swapping tabs on the computer screen.*


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

bdon said:


> People won’t tune into TNT long enough to gain a vested interest in even the GOOD parts of AEW, but you expect them to sift through fucking YouTube shows, not knowing where the weekly show begins or chronological order, and all of these hoops for a product and roster that they have no clue they’ll even enjoy?
> 
> That simply isn’t how this shit works. If that were the case, mom and pop restaurants would see similar sales as the big chain restaurants.
> 
> Tony Khan, is that you!?


I don't expect anybody to do anything. I've said that multiple times. I just said it's not hard to do. Its up to you to decide its worth it or not.


----------



## Shock Street

Man I watch Youtube almost every day, but if I didn't have a ps4 or firestick to watch it on my TV that would not be happening. Big recommend if you see a firestick or chromecast on sale.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Two Sheds said:


> Your continued black and white thinking on this is pretty ridiculous. A lot of people are not good at using technology. Why my "lazy" parents do not just buy smart TVs, learn how to connect them to WiFi (that would require them to know what that password is to begin with), install and configure the apps needed to play YouTube (including signing up for an account, creating a password for that account, checking their email to confirm that account, typing that password into the app on the TV using a TV remote), etc. Man, why do all these old people and technophobes just stop being so LAZY?
> 
> Ridiculous argument. Assuming all people have the same technical knowledge and skills is the lazy argument here.


I'm not assuming anything. You however are making excuses.


----------



## One Shed

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I'm not assuming anything. You however are making excuses.


You are ironically the one being lazy by making a vast generalization and oversimplifying a complex topic that has a multitude of variables, many of which I laid out. But sure, just call all people lazy. That is easier and does not require you to think, thus you are the lazy one here.


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> Since Dynamite is now over a year old, I've put the ratings for each equivalent show side-by-side.
> 
> *10/2/19: 1,409,000 (Episode #1)*
> 9/30/20: 866,000
> 
> *10/9/19: 1,140,000*
> 10/7/20: 753,000
> 
> *10/16/19: 1,014,000*
> 10/14/20: 826,000
> 
> *10/23/19: 963,000*
> 10/21/20: 753,000
> 
> 10/30/19: 759,000
> *10/28/20: 781,000
> 
> 11/6/19: 822,000*
> 11/4/20: 717,000
> 
> *11/13/19: 957,000*
> 11/11/20: 764,000
> 
> *11/20/19: 893,000*
> 11/18/20: 850,000
> 
> 11/27/19: 663,000
> *11/25/20: 712,000*
> 
> 12/4/19: 851,000
> *12/2/20: 913,000*
> 
> 12/11/19: 778,000
> *12/9/20: 995,000*
> 
> 12/18/19: 683,000
> *12/16/20: 806,000*
> 
> So 2019 had seven winners while 2020 has five winners. However, as you can see, 2020 has beaten 2019's equivalent ratings in the last four weeks, including the two shows before Winter is Coming, so there's a positive to take from that.
> 
> Summary: AEW lost viewers at the start, then again earlier this year (7 out of 13 episodes from April to July did under 700k - NO episodes have gone below 700k since) but has won back or gained new viewers since then.


Definitely a better December this year. Kenny vs Mox for the belt certainly better than Dark Order shenanigans lol


----------



## RapShepard

Shock Street said:


> Man I watch Youtube almost every day, but if I didn't have a ps4 or firestick to watch it on my TV that would not be happening. Big recommend if you see a firestick or chromecast on sale.


Same thankfully it's on the Xbox for me.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

RapShepard said:


> But it being inconvenient for some by definition it would be a hassle. If somebody says "yeah I don't feel like download Fite and then setting up an account" that means watching ROH is a hassle. Just like driving can be a bitch so can having to download extra apps and set up accounts. Hell I got YouTube premium just because the ads got to be overbearing and making watching shit become a hassle.


I'll give an example using Fite TV. There is this absolutely awful Aussie Wrestling show on there which is like the worst show you can imagine in your head times ten.

Bad commentary, nonsensical story lines, bad wrestling (bar one or two guys) and it's made especially funny because the woman running things thinks it's awesome and a premier wrestling organisation.

Anyway me and a couple of buddies stay up to date to laugh at it. They won't watch on Fite TV because it's "YouTube with extra steps". You've only got to sign up and download the app but these guys generally don't want to launch the app and do that because it's not worth it.

If anyone wants a link to the lulsy wrestling show PM me. You won't be disappointed


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Two Sheds said:


> You are ironically the one being lazy by making a vast generalization and oversimplifying a complex topic that has a multitude of variables, many of which I laid out. But sure, just call all people lazy. That is easier and does not require you to think, thus you are the lazy one here.


I'm not the one being lazy. My point was made and that's all I needed to do. Don't bullshit and try to spin this bacl on me.

Now I'm done talking about this. Say whatever the hell you want and and have fun being Lazy!


----------



## Ozell Gray

MLW gets low viewership on Bein Sports and gets low views on YouTube. It’s a small promotion with a small following so you can’t necessarily blame anyone for not going out of their way to find it and watch it. ROH is Harder to find as well since its a syndicated company that you may not get in your area so seeking them out isn’t an option to most people hence why it doesn’t get a lot of viewers. ROH is just filler content for Sinclair to air until the things that people actually watch comes on.

Most people still watch tv not streaming or YouTube so it makes no sense to tell someone to go to YouTube to see the clips of the company when it’s much easier to watch it on tv like most people do with most things they watch.


----------



## One Shed

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I'm not the one being lazy. My point was made and that's all I needed to do. Don't bullshit and try to spin this bacl on me.
> 
> Now I'm done talking about this. Say whatever the hell you want and and have fun being Lazy!


Your point was easily refuted because it was lazy.


----------



## The Wood

People have been very kind to you, Raw Smackdown. It’s not convenient or interesting enough for people to go searching on the net for shit. Your argument about whether it is technically easy or not is irrelevant. Sometimes people just don’t want to put that extra step in.

Click on the TV, find the channel you want. That’s what people want. And there’s a prestige to that position. Sometimes people want to watch something they know is something, as opposed to something obscure.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

DammitChrist said:


> You weren't fond of the Io Shirai vs Rhea Ripley match (from WWE) nor the Hikaru Shida vs Thunder Rosa match (from AEW)?
> 
> I thought both of those contests were the best women's (singles) wrestling matches this year from their respective promotions


Don't waste my time with WWE,and yes I thought Shida vs Rosa was good.I don't despise women's wrestling I just don't think generally it's as good as their Male counterparts. 

I mean imo it's no different then comparing the NBA vs WNBA .......theres just a skill leap between the two.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


For me it's like watching the NBA then watching WNBA.....while most of the gameplay is the same,the skill level is higher for men and while a womans game can be entertaining it just doesn't get me invested.

Same can be said for MMA,aside from a handful of the very best female fighters most don't get me even half as excited as a ranked men's fight. 

Wwe may have pit on a smoke show about womans revolution blah blah blah but at the end of the day they still just aren't as good.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

The Wood said:


> People have been very kind to you, Raw Smackdown. It’s not convenient or interesting enough for people to go searching on the net for shit. Your argument about whether it is technically easy or not is irrelevant. Sometimes people just don’t want to put that extra step in.
> 
> Click on the TV, find the channel you want. That’s what people want. And there’s a prestige to that position. Sometimes people want to watch something they know is something, as opposed to something obscure.


My point was relevant. Yours isn't. Because I was never refuting anything you said. All I said was was that people have options. Now wether they want to take those options is up to them. That's it. Nobody has to do anything they want to do. You wanna watch it on Tv go right on ahead. I won't begrudge you or anyone else.

I don't know why that's hard to understand.


----------



## Klitschko

If any if you have the extra time feel free to check out the original ratings thread around 20 pages in. Thats when they did their 1.4 million rating and you guys want to know the really hilarious thing? Not a single person in that topic or in almost none of the reports were talking about the demos. All that was mentioned was the viewership and thats all that the forum members were talking about. The 1.4 rating. So what changed between then and now?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Klitschko said:


> If any if you have the extra time feel free to check out the original ratings thread around 20 pages in. Thats when they did their 1.4 million rating and you guys want to know the really hilarious thing? Not a single person in that topic or in almost none of the reports were talking about the demos. All that was mentioned was the viewership and thats all that the forum members were talking about. The 1.4 rating. So what changed between then and now?


context


----------



## Ozell Gray

Klitschko said:


> If any if you have the extra time feel free to check out the original ratings thread around 20 pages in. Thats when they did their 1.4 million rating and you guys want to know the really hilarious thing? Not a single person in that topic or in almost none of the reports were talking about the demos. All that was mentioned was the viewership and thats all that the forum members were talking about. The 1.4 rating. So what changed between then and now?


When the Viewership plummeted uncle Dave and Alvarez changed the narrative to about the "demos" instead of the viewership to make it look like they're "successful."


----------



## Klitschko

LifeInCattleClass said:


> context


I'm not a numbers guy. I never claimed to be, thats more your department, but it doesn't make sense to me why the viewership was the only thing talked about when the last few months we have constantly been told that demo is more important then viewership. Now I only went a few pages back there but I'm sure it was more then just the first week where it was only the viewership that was talked about and the demo wasn't even mentioned.


----------



## .christopher.

Ozell Gray said:


> When the Viewership plummeted uncle Dave and Alvarez changed the narrative to about the "demos" instead of the viewership to make it look like they're "successful."


As simple as that. Had AEW not run off half their audience in a matter of weeks, this demo talk would, rightfully, not have popped up.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Ozell Gray said:


> When the Viewership plummeted uncle Dave and Alvarez changed the narrative to about the "demos" instead of the viewership to make it look like they're "successful."


This.

Eric Bischoff spoke about this in a recent podcast. Said it's a good demo to have and important but highly overrated now and hyped up simply for Dave to talk about something new.



.christopher. said:


> As simple as that. Had AEW not run off half their audience in a matter of weeks, this demo talk would, rightfully, not have popped up.


Because it doesn't matter for a wrestling show


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> context


Bullshit.


----------



## DammitChrist

LifeInCattleClass said:


> context


I agree with you, man. That's a reasonable explanation tbh :bjpenn


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> I agree with you, man. That's a reasonable explanation tbh :bjpenn


No it's not. Please explain why demo started to matter when The Dub lost half their audience and has never been spoken about before


----------



## rexmundi

Klitschko said:


> If any if you have the extra time feel free to check out the original ratings thread around 20 pages in. Thats when they did their 1.4 million rating and you guys want to know the really hilarious thing? *Not a single person in that topic or in almost none of the reports were talking about the demos. All that was mentioned was the viewership and thats all that the forum members were talking about. *The 1.4 rating. So what changed between then and now?


I posted in that thread at the very time you are mentioning. The bolded section isn't true. Not sure why you asserted something as fact that is easily refutable. The very first post that reported the ratings mentioned both total viewers and the 18-49 demo. AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread...

Seven posts later the demo numbers are posted again: AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread...

As you'll note as you read subsequent posts, people did mention the opening 1.4M number a lot but many posters also mentioned the demo. And the demo was mentioned every single week the ratings report came out. "Not a single person" is an outright fabrication on your part.

This misinformation that I see posted here about the demo only mattering once AEW started losing total viewer numbers is also untrue. The demo has been used as a ratings metric for a relatively long time now.

I can remember going back from around 2000 until now,and seeing networks advertise that they were #1 and they based it upon the demo. In the last 20 years there are so many instances where Fox or NBC would say they were number one while CBS would say they were #1 because they led in total viewers but had an aging audience. Point being that the demo isn't some stat conjured by Meltzer to put AEW over. Oh, by the way Meltzer was talking about AEW'S demos beginning from week 1: AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread... Yet another falsehood debunked.

Demos do matter. It is an undeniable fact that AEW was ranked #3 this week and #2 the prior two weeks. You just don't get to dismiss a legitimate television rating just because you don't like it. Their ad rates are set by their demo number and TNT would definitely prefer they keep a higher demo. They do get sponsors. One can scoff that they don't get "the premium" advertisers, but this isn't golf. They do get good advertisers and money is money after all.

PS It was refreshing to look back at October 2019 and remember just how positive this section used to be before it metastasized and became scjerk-lite.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

^ If the demo is so important why did NXT have an 18-49 sponsor on last week's show and AEW never has for a long period of time?


----------



## .christopher.

rexmundi said:


> I posted in that thread at the very time you are mentioning. The bolded section isn't true. Not sure why you asserted something as fact that is easily refutable. The very first post that reported the ratings mentioned both total viewers and the 18-49 demo. AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread...
> 
> Seven posts later the demo numbers are posted again: AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread...
> 
> As you'll note as you read subsequent posts, people did mention the opening 1.4M number a lot but many posters also mentioned the demo. And the demo was mentioned every single week the ratings report came out. "Not a single person" is an outright fabrication on your part.
> 
> This misinformation that I see posted here about the demo only mattering once AEW started losing total viewer numbers is also untrue. The demo has been used as a ratings metric for a relatively long time now.
> 
> I can remember going back from around 2000 until now,and seeing networks advertise that they were #1 and they based it upon the demo. In the last 20 years there are so many instances where Fox or NBC would say they were number one while CBS would say they were #1 because they led in total viewers but had an aging audience. Point being that the demo isn't some stat conjured by Meltzer to put AEW over. Oh, by the way Meltzer was talking about AEW'S demos beginning from week 1: AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread... Yet another falsehood debunked.
> 
> Demos do matter. It is an undeniable fact that AEW was ranked #3 this week and #2 the prior two weeks. You just don't get to dismiss a legitimate television rating just because you don't like it. Their ad rates are set by their demo number and TNT would definitely prefer they keep a higher demo. They do get sponsors. One can scoff that they don't get "the premium" advertisers, but this isn't golf. They do get good advertisers and money is money after all.
> 
> PS It was refreshing to look back at October 2019 and remember just how positive this section used to be before it metastasized and became scjerk-lite.


You can spin it however you want. There's a reason this demo talk has only popped up this past year despite wrestling rating talk being discussed for decades.


----------



## 10gizzle

Klitschko said:


> If any if you have the extra time feel free to check out the original ratings thread around 20 pages in. Thats when they did their 1.4 million rating and you guys want to know the really hilarious thing? Not a single person in that topic or in almost none of the reports were talking about the demos. All that was mentioned was the viewership and thats all that the forum members were talking about. The 1.4 rating. So what changed between then and now?


Wrestling ratings have literally not been a compelling conversation point in over a generation so its just natural for people with not much else to do to keep arguing about it senselessly.

Nobody knows anything specific enough internally so all of this is speculation. This should all really be shrugged off. Those that want to die on a hill are just nothing more than people who like digging their heels in and arguing the other side.

It's a talking point for most which drives threads like these - where people senselessly comment, argue, and dissect absolutely everything because that's just what happens. When you think about all of the debate and conversation about ratings, outside of a choice few providing some industry information, nothing useful has been ascertained, no inroads into agreement from both sides has been made. The only thing we've really learned is that its very unpredictable and its without a concrete set of benchmarks to judge success. 

Some people say viewership, some say demo, some think AEW being a top 5-10 show on TV matters a lot. Others put value in their international distribution. Others literally mark the commercials being shown to try and prove a point. Lol. It's hilarious. People can get away with talking out of their ass when there isn't someone with actual knowledge around to put them in check. Problem is anybody who knows enough about any subject in any industry is not going to bother spending their self-valued time and effort engaging those without any industry expertise or insight at all.

There have been plenty of people within the industry mention that the key demo is essential. Yet people still complain about others caring about the key demo. A TNT executive could issue a public decree saying "NOTHING MATTERS BUT A TOP 10 KEY DEMO" and people would still find a way to argue both sides.

I'd say it's my only and biggest gripe with this forum. So repetitive. I'm surprised people don't get bored of the redundancy. It's like that poster, forgot his name, every other post he makes uses the word "fanboy". Many of his gripes with fanboys are perfectly valid. But when you keep using words like fanboy, people will take that the wrong way which literally perpetuates the behaviour that he doesn't approve of to begin with. 

I was told that the only thing that matters is the demo, not from a benchmark point of view, but simply because its a number that gets plugged into an equation that get to determine advertising rates. That's it. This is all minutia for people to obsess over.

This is advanced stats. Come over to my basketball forum, or fantasy football forum and you'll see people arguing just the same] with just as much zeal.


----------



## VIP86

i heard that AEW Dynamite Beats WWE Raw & Smackdown in Key Demos
i don't really care about the whole Demo argument
but anything that can piss off Vince McMahon and especially HHH, brings a smile to my face
i think i hate HHH much much more than @bdon hates Cody
although i like Cody


----------



## Not Lying

.christopher. said:


> You can spin it however you want. *There's a reason this demo talk has only popped up this past year despite wrestling rating talk being discussed for decades.*


  Love it when haters double down on stupid even after links and posts proving this shit wrong.

Just because it wasn't heavily discussed before doesn't mean it wasn't relevant. It just means people got educated and now understand ratings and rankings better.

Hey @The Wood Would you mind telling everyone why you made a post discussing demos in mid 2019 for Smackdown?









All Raw TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here -...


What characters? They're both just "good wrestlers " who win a lot. Neither even has a character. They looked like they were gonna give AJ one when he dropped Vince but he went back to being just a good rassler that wins a lot. Lol The point clearly went over your head, so I won't bother.




www.wrestlingforum.com





Demos have mattered. They became a bigger talking point because it's impressive how much AEW has outdone its competitor with younger audience member.


----------



## The Wood

The Raw Smackdown said:


> My point was relevant. Yours isn't. Because I was never refuting anything you said. All I said was was that people have options. Now wether they want to take those options is up to them. That's it. Nobody has to do anything they want to do. You wanna watch it on Tv go right on ahead. I won't begrudge you or anyone else.
> 
> I don't know why that's hard to understand.


Because you went around insulting people and changing your position because you got called on it. Content needs to appeal to you, not vice versa. Stop being a masochist and trying to force bad shit on good people. Everyone dunked on ya. Don’t be a baby about it and move on. 



Klitschko said:


> If any if you have the extra time feel free to check out the original ratings thread around 20 pages in. Thats when they did their 1.4 million rating and you guys want to know the really hilarious thing? Not a single person in that topic or in almost none of the reports were talking about the demos. All that was mentioned was the viewership and thats all that the forum members were talking about. The 1.4 rating. So what changed between then and now?


Meltzer and Alvarez changed the script when AEW wasn’t that impressive out the gate. It is as simple as that. The demos haven’t mattered with Raw for years.


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> Love it when haters double down on stupid even after links and posts proving this shit wrong.
> 
> Just because it wasn't heavily discussed before doesn't mean it wasn't relevant. It just means people got educated and now understand ratings and rankings better.
> 
> Hey @The Wood Would you mind telling everyone why you made a post discussing demos in mid 2019 for Smackdown?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All Raw TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here -...
> 
> 
> What characters? They're both just "good wrestlers " who win a lot. Neither even has a character. They looked like they were gonna give AJ one when he dropped Vince but he went back to being just a good rassler that wins a lot. Lol The point clearly went over your head, so I won't bother.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Demos have mattered. They became a bigger talking point because it's impressive how much AEW has outdone its competitor with younger audience member.


Did you read that post? I don’t think it makes the point I think you think it makes.


----------



## Not Lying

Was the breakdown posted?



> Q1: Hangman Page & The Dark Order vs. Matt Hardy & Private Party – 1,010,000 viewers, 512,000 in 18-49
> Q2: Inner circle interview/Cody & Brando video/Cody Rhodes vs. Angelico – 826,000 viewers (down 184,000), 410,000 in 18-49 (down 102,000)
> Q3: End of Cody vs. Angelico/Sting & Team Taz segment/Miro interview/Eddie Kingston promo & brawl – 843,000 viewers (up 17,000), 405,000 in 18-49 (down 5,000)
> Q4: Dustin Rhodes interview/Inner Circle vs. Best Friends, Top Flight & Varisty Blondes – 835,000 viewers (down 8,000), 413,000 in 18-49 (up 8,000)
> Q5: End of 12-man tag match/Thunder Rosa & Britt Baker segment – 726,000 viewers (down 109,000), 400,000 in 18-49 (down 13,000)
> Q6: SCU vs. The Acclaimed/Top Flight promo – 746,000 viewers (up 20,000), 399,000 in 18-49 (down 1,000)
> Q7: Ivelisse & Diamante vs. Big Swole & Serena Deeb – 741,000 viewers (down 5,000), 406,000 in 18-49 (up 7,000)
> Q8: Kenny Omega vs. Joey Janela – 718,000 viewers (down 23,000), 419,000 in 18-49 (up 13,000)


What a fall after the first Q! What a shame.

Can't blame the fans for tuning out when Cody was facing someone they barely built in Angelico.

Q5 is usually up, so it being down means quite a lot, and that fans just aren't into the IC crap anymore.

Main event losing viewers is also not a good sign.




The Wood said:


> Did you read that post? I don’t think it makes the point I think you think it makes.


"The demos *have been worrying for a long time*. WWE appeals to old white men. That should say something. They have real trouble engaging younger and more varied demos. "Cool people."

lol. your first sentence highlights that demos are important. Stop burying yourself.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

The Raw Smackdown said:


> My point was relevant. Yours isn't. Because I was never refuting anything you said. All I said was was that people have options. Now wether they want to take those options is up to them. That's it. Nobody has to do anything they want to do. You wanna watch it on Tv go right on ahead. I won't begrudge you or anyone else.
> 
> I don't know why that's hard to understand.





The Wood said:


> Because you went around insulting people and changing your position because you got called on it. Content needs to appeal to you, not vice versa. Stop being a masochist and trying to force bad shit on good people. Everyone dunked on ya. Don’t be a baby about it and move on.


Wait a minute who did I insult? And a the end of the day I'm right and had a point. You and everyone else were the ones that made a simple ass point into something it wasn't and that's YOU'RE problem. Don't come at me with lies and bullshit because you don't agree with me. YOU move the hell on.


----------



## K4L318

drinking my ciroc, aint no one here made sense about no damn draw. I asked ya a simple question.
WWE got a wrestler who is on a show dat 65 Million peeps watch on an app. And she aint led to no demo boom.
Roman was on movie wit his cuz, endless time, in theatres on a high level network and he aint led to no boom.
ya overplay this star thang. And ya dont want to admit dat they aint no damn star.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Just loud and wrong lmao.

But anyways back to ratings such.


----------



## RapShepard

In context of today's TV landscape what's the ideal demo and viewership AEW should be doing? This is question towards everybody b


----------



## VIP86

RapShepard said:


> In context of today's TV landscape what's the ideal demo and viewership AEW should be doing? This is question towards everybody b


more than any WWE show
but only if they cut all the midgets and wannabe PRO wrestlers


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Definition of Technician said:


> Was the breakdown posted?
> 
> 
> 
> What a fall after the first Q! What a shame.
> 
> Can't blame the fans for tuning out when Cody was facing someone they barely built in Angelico.
> 
> Q5 is usually up, so it being down means quite a lot, and that fans just aren't into the IC crap anymore.
> 
> Main event losing viewers is also not a good sign.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The demos *have been worrying for a long time*. WWE appeals to old white men. That should say something. They have real trouble engaging younger and more varied demos. "Cool people."
> 
> lol. your first sentence highlights that demos are important. Stop burying yourself.


I can't tell you if Wood has ulterior motives or whatever you're suggesting but I think he's always agreed with me that whilst yes the demo is important it's not more important than the overall rating. His post is simply talking about the demo he isn't at all saying the demo is more important than overall rating or anything you're trying to call him on.

The demo AEW gets in 18-49 is awesome, it shows they have a young supportive audience that will hopefully support them for the next 20-30 years (If they're around that long). What causes argument is when people try to state that it's the most important thing.


----------



## kamaro011

VIP86 said:


> more than any WWE show
> but only if they cut all the midgets and wannabe PRO wrestlers


There always place for "midget" size pro wrestler, but it's must be a small amount and not be a majority. They also must have a charisma, wrestling skill and psychology to make up their lack of imposing size which these days is getting rare.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Klitschko said:


> I'm not a numbers guy. I never claimed to be, thats more your department, but it doesn't make sense to me why the viewership was the only thing talked about when the last few months we have constantly been told that demo is more important then viewership. Now I only went a few pages back there but I'm sure it was more then just the first week where it was only the viewership that was talked about and the demo wasn't even mentioned.


by the 3rd week when the numbers went to 900, and all the doomsayers said they will be cancelled, and then they weren’t - it naturally shifted to demo

because that is where the networks saw the value and why they stayed on air to this day

its just a natural evolution about the ratings discussion, and the more info became available on it, the more people started talking about it


----------



## Mr316

Chip Chipperson said:


> ^ If the demo is so important why did NXT have an 18-49 sponsor on last week's show and AEW never has for a long period of time?


Because AEW has a very weak marketing team. I mean...Brandi is their chief brand officer.


----------



## DammitChrist

RapShepard said:


> In context of today's TV landscape what's the ideal demo and viewership AEW should be doing? This is question towards everybody b


I'd say that Dynamite getting at least a 0.35 with the demo and a viewership of 800 K is ideal.


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> I'd say that Dynamite getting at least a 0.35 with the demo and a viewership of 800 K is ideal.


So what they're doing now. I can get that.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> by the 3rd week when the numbers went to 900, and all the doomsayers said they will be cancelled, and then they weren’t - it naturally shifted to demo
> 
> because that is where the networks saw the value and why they stayed on air to this day
> 
> its just a natural evolution about the ratings discussion, and the more info became available on it, the more people started talking about it


One would think you’d have corrected all of us pee-ons with your vast experience and intellect in advertising, right?


----------



## The Wood

10gizzle said:


> Wrestling ratings have literally not been a compelling conversation point in over a generation so its just natural for people with not much else to do to keep arguing about it senselessly.
> 
> Nobody knows anything specific enough internally so all of this is speculation. This should all really be shrugged off. Those that want to die on a hill are just nothing more than people who like digging their heels in and arguing the other side.
> 
> It's a talking point for most which drives threads like these - where people senselessly comment, argue, and dissect absolutely everything because that's just what happens. When you think about all of the debate and conversation about ratings, outside of a choice few providing some industry information, nothing useful has been ascertained, no inroads into agreement from both sides has been made. The only thing we've really learned is that its very unpredictable and its without a concrete set of benchmarks to judge success.
> 
> Some people say viewership, some say demo, some think AEW being a top 5-10 show on TV matters a lot. Others put value in their international distribution. Others literally mark the commercials being shown to try and prove a point. Lol. It's hilarious. People can get away with talking out of their ass when there isn't someone with actual knowledge around to put them in check. Problem is anybody who knows enough about any subject in any industry is not going to bother spending their self-valued time and effort engaging those without any industry expertise or insight at all.
> 
> There have been plenty of people within the industry mention that the key demo is essential. Yet people still complain about others caring about the key demo. A TNT executive could issue a public decree saying "NOTHING MATTERS BUT A TOP 10 KEY DEMO" and people would still find a way to argue both sides.
> 
> I'd say it's my only and biggest gripe with this forum. So repetitive. I'm surprised people don't get bored of the redundancy. It's like that poster, forgot his name, every other post he makes uses the word "fanboy". Many of his gripes with fanboys are perfectly valid. But when you keep using words like fanboy, people will take that the wrong way which literally perpetuates the behaviour that he doesn't approve of to begin with.
> 
> I was told that the only thing that matters is the demo, not from a benchmark point of view, but simply because its a number that gets plugged into an equation that get to determine advertising rates. That's it. This is all minutia for people to obsess over.
> 
> This is advanced stats. Come over to my basketball forum, or fantasy football forum and you'll see people arguing just the same] with just as much zeal.


This is your opinion dressed up to be authoritative. The “experts” that have come in have had their shit questioned and made points for the “haters” you are trying to dismiss.



The Definition of Technician said:


> Was the breakdown posted?
> 
> 
> 
> What a fall after the first Q! What a shame.
> 
> Can't blame the fans for tuning out when Cody was facing someone they barely built in Angelico.
> 
> Q5 is usually up, so it being down means quite a lot, and that fans just aren't into the IC crap anymore.
> 
> Main event losing viewers is also not a good sign.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The demos *have been worrying for a long time*. WWE appeals to old white men. That should say something. They have real trouble engaging younger and more varied demos. "Cool people."
> 
> lol. your first sentence highlights that demos are important. Stop burying yourself.


And it then ties them into viewership. My overall point is about the type of fan WWE attracts. That has been my criticism of AEW too. There’s nothing inconsistent here. Stop lying. It should be a bannable offence.



The Raw Smackdown said:


> Wait a minute who did I insult? And a the end of the day I'm right and had a point. You and everyone else were the ones that made a simple ass point into something it wasn't and that's YOU'RE problem. Don't come at me with lies and bullshit because you don't agree with me. YOU move the hell on.


No, you’re not right. You’re flat-out wrong and were called on it by not only me but like four other people. It is a content creator’s responsibility to make their product accessible. It is not on the consumer to go out of their way to find your shit. That doesn’t make them entitled.



Chip Chipperson said:


> I can't tell you if Wood has ulterior motives or whatever you're suggesting but I think he's always agreed with me that whilst yes the demo is important it's not more important than the overall rating. His post is simply talking about the demo he isn't at all saying the demo is more important than overall rating or anything you're trying to call him on.
> 
> The demo AEW gets in 18-49 is awesome, it shows they have a young supportive audience that will hopefully support them for the next 20-30 years (If they're around that long). What causes argument is when people try to state that it's the most important thing.


Yep, I’ve never said that demos are entirely unimportant. The only people that have argued that are the “18-49 only” crowd. I have always said that it’s good to get all sorts of fans, and my demographic focus has always been on people from diverse backgrounds, which is the point I’m making in that post. 

I’m so sick of being lied about, honestly.


----------



## K4L318

The Wood said:


> This is your opinion dressed up to be authoritative. The “experts” that have come in have had their shit questioned and made points for the “haters” you are trying to dismiss.
> 
> 
> 
> And it then ties them into viewership. My overall point is about the type of fan WWE attracts. That has been my criticism of AEW too. There’s nothing inconsistent here. Stop lying. It should be a bannable offence.
> 
> 
> 
> No, you’re not right. You’re flat-out wrong and were called on it by not only me but like four other people. It is a content creator’s responsibility to make their product accessible. It is not on the consumer to go out of their way to find your shit. That doesn’t make them entitled.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, I’ve never said that demos are entirely unimportant. The only people that have argued that are the “18-49 only” crowd. I have always said that it’s good to get all sorts of fans, and my demographic focus has always been on people from diverse backgrounds, which is the point I’m making in that post.
> 
> I’m so sick of being lied about, honestly.


bruh 18-49 is not a gimmick, its a top market age group, its how shows live or die.


----------



## The Wood

K4L318 said:


> bruh 18-49 is not a gimmick, its a top market age group, its how shows live or die.


Nielsen was almost dropped by CBS years ago. Find anyone in television who lives and dies by ratings the way that wrestling seems to. It’s ironic, because the 18-49 wrestling audience is one of the least valuable in that bracket out there.

You can sell things to old people, you can sell things to kids. You can sell things to black or Hispanic people. You can target gay audiences.

18-49 was valuable in 2000 when it was the best measurement we had and 18-49 year olds had the most disposable income. It wasn’t the only valuable audience nor is it certain they still are or that cable is the best way to reach them.


----------



## Not Lying

The Wood said:


> This is your opinion dressed up to be authoritative. The “experts” that have come in have had their shit questioned and made points for the “haters” you are trying to dismiss.
> 
> 
> 
> And it then ties them into viewership. My overall point is about the type of fan WWE attracts. That has been my criticism of AEW too. There’s nothing inconsistent here. Stop lying. It should be a bannable offence.
> 
> 
> 
> No, you’re not right. You’re flat-out wrong and were called on it by not only me but like four other people. It is a content creator’s responsibility to make their product accessible. It is not on the consumer to go out of their way to find your shit. That doesn’t make them entitled.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, I’ve never said that demos are entirely unimportant. The only people that have argued that are the “18-49 only” crowd. I have always said that it’s good to get all sorts of fans, and my demographic focus has always been on people from diverse backgrounds, which is the point I’m making in that post.
> 
> I’m so sick of being lied about, honestly.


Lying.

Lmao.

I'll spell it out for you.

1- All the talk is "none of this demo talk existed before Meltzer focused on it for AEW's favor".

2- I showed a quote from you, from mid-2019, talking about the demo. Thus, proving that demo talk, did indeed exist before Meltzer.

Who's lying now?


----------



## bdon

It is possible that they only started talking demo to protect AEW.

And for @The Wood (and I’m sure he’d agree), it is entirely possible TNT is over the fucking noon happy with the results AEW has given them.


----------



## Not Lying

bdon said:


> *It is possible that they only started talking demo to protect AEW*.
> 
> And for @The Wood (and I’m sure he’d agree), it is entirely possible TNT is over the fucking noon happy with the results AEW has given them.


They were saying this talk didn't even exist on forums before which is a lie.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

You're taking a literal view on something.

Of course demo was talked about but it wasn't talked about as being this important or this groundbreaking until it was the sole thing that AEW was doing very well in. Before this it was simply used as a gauge in who was watching what.

Now it's suddenly the only thing that matters and the difference between living and dying yet nobody can tell me why NXT got a specifically 18-49 sponsorship and AEW did not.

Also, can I mention that 18-49 probably aren't the demo that are wealthiest anymore in the United States? Aren't most 18-35 in horrible debt due to college and those who don't go to college are making like 10 bucks an hour generally? It's not like Australia where you can drop out of high school and go work an average full time job with no real qualifications and make 1000+ a week (After tax)


----------



## The Wood

Yeah, you’re being way too literal. The word “demo” existed before 2019. No one is saying Meltzer invented the word. The importance placed on it is what has only become important as a metric that makes AEW look good.




bdon said:


> It is possible that they only started talking demo to protect AEW.
> 
> And for @The Wood (and I’m sure he’d agree), it is entirely possible TNT is over the fucking noon happy with the results AEW has given them.


It’s possible they’re over the moon happy. Especially with what they pay for it. But it’s also possible they wanted a Raw numbers too — because there’s no reason a 2-hour wrestling show in as many homes can’t.

We just don’t know. And I think anyone who trusts Meltzer on this going forward is foolish.


----------



## The Wood

Chip Chipperson said:


> You're taking a literal view on something.
> 
> Of course demo was talked about but it wasn't talked about as being this important or this groundbreaking until it was the sole thing that AEW was doing very well in. Before this it was simply used as a gauge in who was watching what.
> 
> Now it's suddenly the only thing that matters and the difference between living and dying yet nobody can tell me why NXT got a specifically 18-49 sponsorship and AEW did not.
> 
> Also, can I mention that 18-49 probably aren't the demo that are wealthiest anymore in the United States? Aren't most 18-35 in horrible debt due to college and those who don't go to college are making like 10 bucks an hour generally? It's not like Australia where you can drop out of high school and go work an average full time job with no real qualifications and make 1000+ a week (After tax)


Exactly. I’ve been making the point about culture and society changing a lot economically over this century, and I’m glad someone else has put their common sense into that.

I’m not sure who the wealthiest demographic in the US is now, but I’m willing to bet it is Baby Boomers and/or Gen X. And that is why the demographic was seen as valuable, right? Because they spent more. I don’t know if that is the case in 2021 and I haven’t seen any evidence from anyone that isn’t Dave Meltzer lying for his buddies.

Also, given that fewer and fewer young people have cable, advertisers are going to be less and less interested in advertising to them via cable. That’s something I’ve been saying but people would only here from prosperwithdeen who basically confirmed it.

You couple that with the perception of wrestling and wrestling fans and the idea of that particular demo mattering that damn much is strained even further.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Yeah, you’re being way too literal. The word “demo” existed before 2019. No one is saying Meltzer invented the word. The importance placed on it is what has only become important as a metric that makes AEW look good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It’s possible they’re over the moon happy. Especially with what they pay for it. But it’s also possible they wanted a Raw numbers too — because there’s no reason a 2-hour wrestling show in as many homes can’t.
> 
> We just don’t know. And I think anyone who trusts Meltzer on this going forward is foolish.


Basically it is the same story as a year ago: push back on either side forces the other to dig their heels deeper in the sand to the point it sounds their is no room for areas of grey.

I just happen to like ya old Grinch ass enough to know and remember the times you add things that could be gleaned POSITIVELY.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Basically it is the same story as a year ago: push back on either side forces the other to dig their heels deeper in the sand to the point it sounds their is no room for areas of grey.
> 
> I just happen to like ya old Grinch ass enough to know and remember the times you add things that could be gleaned POSITIVELY.


That’s when I had hope for this thing to be anything other than more sports entertainment haha. I’m still positive about the likelihood of another billionaire backer coming along and seeing value in starting a pro-wrestling promotion with the intention of actually filling the market.

As of May, Brock Lesnar, CM Punk, Ronda Rousey and Tessa Blanchard will tentatively be free agents. The stars are out there. You also have access to anyone not in WWE, because they can all presumably get released from their current arrangements.

That promotion actually has a chance of working with New Japan. That gives you even more things.


----------



## Cult03

The ease of watching elsewhere is exactly why ratings are worthless and something like social media numbers tell you more than how many Americans watch live. It's an outdated process that simply does not matter to anyone except advertisers in 2020. But just for fun, will some of you defend WWE the same way now that their ratings suck too? NXT is played around the world and then on the Network the next day. Ratings do not matter anymore.


----------



## The Wood

Cult03 said:


> The ease of watching elsewhere is exactly why ratings are worthless and something like social media numbers tell you more than how many Americans watch live. It's an outdated process that simply does not matter to anyone except advertisers in 2020. But just for fun, will some of you defend WWE the same way now that their ratings suck too? NXT is played around the world and then on the Network the next day. Ratings do not matter anymore.


Other people in entertainment will generally scoff at the ratings. They know media is consumed differently, and usually on demand. Especially by younger people.

Just for fun, NXT is broadcast in Argentina, Austria, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Bolivia, Brazil, Cambodia, France, Germany, India, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Malaysia, Nepal, New Zealand, Pakistan, Peru, Portugal, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Switzerland and the United Kingdom. It is live in some of these countries. WWE gets money for those deals. And why do you think they are suddenly pushing some Chinese acts? But yes, they are really sweating a difference of 100k in a market where they continue to split their audience with the WWE Network.

It’s not the same world as when Vince McMahon picked a fight with Ted Turner. That was the best way we had of measuring the damage of that war. Now the WWE have their fingers in so many pies and content is distributed and consumed very differently.


----------



## K4L318

The Wood said:


> Nielsen was almost dropped by CBS years ago. Find anyone in television who lives and dies by ratings the way that wrestling seems to. It’s ironic, because the 18-49 wrestling audience is one of the least valuable in that bracket out there.
> 
> You can sell things to old people, you can sell things to kids. You can sell things to black or Hispanic people. You can target gay audiences.
> 
> 18-49 was valuable in 2000 when it was the best measurement we had and 18-49 year olds had the most disposable income. It wasn’t the only valuable audience nor is it certain they still are or that cable is the best way to reach them.


bro ya cant sell much to old peeps they have less chance of having kids and buying for other than themselves. Check social security status in America.


----------



## Not Lying

The Wood said:


> Yeah, *you’re being way too literal*. The word “demo” existed before 2019. No one is saying Meltzer invented the word. The importance placed on it is what has only become important as a metric that makes AEW look good.


nice cop out


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> nice cop out


It’s not a cop-out at all. Read what I actually said. It all ties back into viewership and a wider perspective of demographics (ethnicity) that I have been more than consistent with on here. You are being difficult on purpose. Stop.


----------



## K4L318

The Wood said:


> It’s not a cop-out at all. Read what I actually said. It all ties back into viewership and a wider perspective of demographics (ethnicity) that I have been more than consistent with on here. You are being difficult on purpose. Stop.


nah homie its a cop-out. Ya know I keep it real. Demo is easy to explain, grandma and grandpa aint making babies, and yo pops or moms wont either. Ya kids do, dats why da key demo is da money in wrestling.


----------



## The Wood

K4L318 said:


> nah homie its a cop-out. Ya know I keep it real. Demo is easy to explain, grandma and grandpa aint making babies, and yo pops or moms wont either. Ya kids do, dats why da key demo is da money in wrestling.


No, what DoT dug up (weird and creepy by the way) doesn’t say what he said it says. Go back and read it. The emphasis is clearly on viewership.


----------



## Not Lying

The Wood said:


> No, what DoT dug up (weird and creepy by the way) doesn’t say what he said it says. Go back and read it. The emphasis is clearly on viewership.


another cop out lol, searching "demo" with a date range of 2019 before AEW started and having you be the first post that showed up was weird, but I had to take advantage of the opportunity to show everyone what a hypocrite you've been everytime you said "dEmOs weRE NevER TalKed ABouT beFoRE AEW"


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> another cop out lol, searching "demo" with a date range of 2019 before AEW started and having you be the first post that showed up was weird, but I had to take advantage of the opportunity to show everyone what a hypocrite you've been everytime you said "dEmOs weRE NevER TalKed ABouT beFoRE AEW"


*Viewership is clearly what is important in that post. Viewership. VIEWERSHIP. It is in the fucking post. Everyone KNOWS that demos existed. That doesn’t mean they were given the emphasis you claim they were. Read. The. Fucking. Post.*

“Hey, those demos are worrying.” Is not the same thing as saying “demos are more important than anything else.” I trust anyone with a brain reading that will gleam that.

Do you realise how toadish it is for you to literally latch onto the word “demo” as if someone saying it at all is the same as giving emphasis and significance? The point is that the demos only became *important* when Dave wanted them to be for AEW. Not that literally nobody had ever said the word “demos.” Fuck’s sake.


----------



## CM Buck

Everyone table this argument. Or explain what the drama is?


----------



## The Wood

Don’t for one second anyone try to 


Firefromthegods said:


> Everyone table this argument. Or explain what the drama is?


It stems from a discussion about “key demos” only beginning to matter when it benefit AEW to have them emphasised since they do do relatively well in that area.

DoT has taken a quote like “no one talked about the demos before AEW” hyper-literally and found a post where I’ve used the word “demo” but the point is still about viewership. He’s now calling me a hypocrite even though he actually kind of proved my point, because it’s perfectly consistent with what I’ve been saying all along, lol.

I just hate people putting words into my mouth and this obsessive attitude they’ve got about me where they go through my post history to try and get a “gotcha” on me. They end up burning themselves, but it’s just annoying and inappropriate.

DoT would have taken a post from me that said “demos don’t matter that much, why are you talking about them?” and be like “SEE! SEE! You said demos!” Fucking hell.


----------



## CM Buck

The Wood said:


> Don’t for one second anyone try to
> 
> 
> It stems from a discussion about “key demos” only beginning to matter when it benefit AEW to have them emphasised since they do do relatively well in that area.
> 
> DoT has taken a quote like “no one talked about the demos before AEW” hyper-literally and found a post where I’ve used the word “demo” but the point is still about viewership. He’s now calling me a hypocrite even though he actually kind of proved my point, because it’s perfectly consistent with what I’ve been saying all along, lol.
> 
> I just hate people putting words into my mouth and this obsessive attitude they’ve got about me where they go through my post history to try and get a “gotcha” on me. They end up burning themselves, but it’s just annoying and inappropriate.
> 
> DoT would have taken a post from me that said “demos don’t matter that much, why are you talking about them?” and be like “SEE! SEE! You said demos!” Fucking hell.


@The Definition of Technician don't go post hunting. Just argue what wood presents you. And if lads can't agree then just agree to disagree.


----------



## Not Lying

Firefromthegods said:


> @The Definition of Technician don't go post hunting. Just argue what wood presents you. And if lads can't agree then just agree to disagree.


Is there anything against rules about post hunting? you have a bunch of liars saying demo was never talked about and that is something so easy to dispute i did it in seconds.

Did you see his post?
It was viewership and demos, but he put the focus on demos.



> T*he demos have been worrying for a long time*. WWE appeals to old white men. That should say something. They *have real trouble engaging younger and more varied demos*. "Cool people." *WWE doesn't appeal to cool people*. That is why it *should be worrying* to brass in management that there's a hip, new, young wrestling promotion coming around the corner. *Well, hipper, newer and younger. But WWE are going to run into trouble when their current fan-base starts dying of*f.





> And that is where those demos become a worrying sign, because *you can see how limited WWE's demographic appeal is. People watch out of habit and they have trouble creating new fans and keeping young people*, even on a Monday (let alone a Friday).


How about they just admit that demo were always important and were already talked bout but because AEW is doing so well it's become a thing for fans to be happy and talk about, because of its importance. But haters be bitter.


----------



## CM Buck

The Definition of Technician said:


> Is there anything against rules about post hunting? you have a bunch of liars saying demo was never talked about and that is something so easy to dispute i did it in seconds.
> 
> Did you see his post?
> It was viewership and demos, but he put the focus on demos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about they just admit that demo were always important and were already talked bout but because AEW is doing so well it's become a thing for fans to be happy about, because of its importance. But haters be bitter.


No. Not unless you went back like years. Or months. Then its a tad obsessive. I'm assuming this posts a week or 2 old

I don't understand tv ratings, I don't understand tv demographics. I understand ratings in general and understand what demographics are. But when they pertain to wrestling im like Alicia Silverstone clueless.

@The Wood it looks like you were saying that demos matter. Did you mean they aren't the be all end all of success for a tv product?


----------



## Not Lying

Firefromthegods said:


> No. Not unless you went back like years. Or months. Then its a tad obsessive. I'm assuming this posts a week or 2 old
> 
> I don't understand tv ratings, I don't understand tv demographics. I understand ratings in general and understand what demographics are. But when they pertain to wrestling im like Alicia Silverstone clueless.
> 
> @The Wood it looks like you were saying that demos matter. Did you mean they aren't the be all end all of success for a tv product?


No this was a post from mid 2019 where he was talking for WWE ratings.

There is advanced search function on the forum where you can filter by time so i searched for demo and put the range from jan-aug 2019 so its before AEW started (what they were arguing). Of course, there were demo discussions, and Wood's post was on the top searches, and since he's one of the ones who talk about "demo were never talked about", I tagged him.

here's the post









All Raw TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here -...


What characters? They're both just "good wrestlers " who win a lot. Neither even has a character. They looked like they were gonna give AJ one when he dropped Vince but he went back to being just a good rassler that wins a lot. Lol The point clearly went over your head, so I won't bother.




www.wrestlingforum.com





Like seriously, how ridiculous is it the people that are saying "demos never mattered before"? when it's easily provably that's a lie...


----------



## The Wood

Firefromthegods said:


> No. Not unless you went back like years. Or months. Then its a tad obsessive. I'm assuming this posts a week or 2 old
> 
> I don't understand tv ratings, I don't understand tv demographics. I understand ratings in general and understand what demographics are. But when they pertain to wrestling im like Alicia Silverstone clueless.
> 
> @The Wood it looks like you were saying that demos matter. Did you mean they aren't the be all end all of success for a tv product?


I was talking about all sorts of demos in there. Ethnic, youth, “cool” and many other things. I’ve never said that demos, in any sense of the word, don’t matter at all. But you won’t find me obsessing over the 18-49 demo or Showbuzz charts.

Demos aren’t important in the way that Dave Meltzer and blind apologists pretend they are in 2020. It doesn’t mean they aren’t interesting, that getting young fans is bad or that it was the key focus of anyone discussing this stuff. That’s what DoT is twisting.

Yes, I’ve said the word “demographic” before. And yes, Meltzer sometimes looked at the demographics of the audience during the MNW. But that doesn’t mean that’s where the focus was or what was truly important, and that’s the point DoT is completely ignoring to try and stretch himself to calling me a hypocrite.

It was viewership, viewership, viewership in ratings discussions and everybody knows it. That the WWE has had problems generating new fans and has a very gentrified audience is another issue. In those posts you can even see that I say “when their current audience” dries up.



The Definition of Technician said:


> Like seriously, how ridiculous is it the people that are saying "demos never mattered before"? when it's easily provably that's a lie...


They didn’t though, lol. The MNW was all about the share. Raw and SmackDown has all been about viewership.


----------



## CM Buck

Okay chaps I'll take your word for it. I'm sure you two can sort this out amicably


----------



## Ozell Gray

If you actually read that post that @The Wood posted about the "demos" you'd see he also said that Fox would cancel SmackDown because they'll want 3 million viewers so his post wasn't about "demos" but viewership. People on here love twisting people's posts to fit a false narrative. If his post was about "the demos" then why did he mention Fox won't be happy about SmackDown doing under 3 million viewers? It's disingenuous to claim he was strictly talking about the demos when he brought up "the demos" to illustrate that WWE aren't getting enough of that 18-49 bracket to tune into Raw and SmackDown.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> I was talking about all sorts of demos in there. Ethnic, youth, “cool” and many other things. I’ve never said that demos, in any sense of the word, don’t matter at all. But you won’t find me obsessing over the 18-49 demo or Showbuzz charts.
> 
> Demos aren’t important in the way that Dave Meltzer and blind apologists pretend they are in 2020. It doesn’t mean they aren’t interesting, that getting young fans is bad or that it was the key focus of anyone discussing this stuff. That’s what DoT is twisting.
> 
> Yes, I’ve said the word “demographic” before. And yes, Meltzer sometimes looked at the demographics of the audience during the MNW. But that doesn’t mean that’s where the focus was or what was truly important, and that’s the point DoT is completely ignoring to try and stretch himself to calling me a hypocrite.
> 
> It was viewership, viewership, viewership in ratings discussions and everybody knows it. That the WWE has had problems generating new fans and has a very gentrified audience is another issue. In those posts you can even see that I say “when their current audience” dries up.
> 
> 
> 
> They didn’t though, lol. The MNW was all about the share. Raw and SmackDown has all been about viewership.


I will agree that you spoke of demos AND viewership, I do have one question I wanted to ask yesterday when this was first brought up: is SmackDown in danger of being cancelled? They’re doing roughly 33% less than many would have imagined given they are on the most basic of cable television..?

If we’re being fair here, of course...


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> I will agree that you spoke of demos AND viewership, I do have one question I wanted to ask yesterday when this was first brought up: is SmackDown in danger of being cancelled? They’re doing roughly 33% less than many would have imagined given they are on the most basic of cable television..?
> 
> If we’re being fair here, of course...


Nah, probably not. I was pretty down on WWE at the time and saw them on a downward trajectory. Didn’t really put things into context.

I think there are issues that need to be addressed there for sure. I do think they are going to need to work out ways to replenish their fan-base. But AEW has seriously made me appreciate the WWE more. Yuck. I hate saying that. But there is no substitute available right now.

I give all credit to that to Daniel Bryan joining creative and Roman Reigns coming back. Not Vince and Kevin Dunn, haha.


----------



## VIP86

interesting observation after a quick look at the first Ratings thread in september last year
a lot of the people who were posting very enthusiastically about AEW back then
are not posting here AT ALL now
isn't this an indication that the product failed to live up to a lot of people's expectations ?

another interesting observation is that people who are criticizing AEW now, were very optimistic and used to almost beg AEW to succeed back then.
isn't this a proof that the people who are defending blindly, are the ones holding the product back from achieving much larger success

because AEW proved that they are listening to their fan base (especially the fanboys)
but unfortunately fanboys didn't demand improvement, because they are still watching with the same indie mentality as before

if only fanboys would realise that criticisms come from a place of love and hope not of hate and anger


----------



## The Wood

VIP86 said:


> interesting observation after a quick look at the first Ratings thread in september last year
> a lot of the people who were posting very enthusiastically about AEW back then
> are not posting here AT ALL now
> isn't this an indication that the product failed to live up to a lot of people's expectations ?
> 
> another interesting observation is that people who are criticizing AEW now, were very optimistic and used to almost beg AEW to succeed back then.
> isn't this a proof that the people who are defending blindly, are the ones holding the product back from achieving much larger success
> 
> because AEW proved that they are listening to their fan base (especially the fanboys)
> but unfortunately fanboys didn't demand improvement, because they are still watching with the same indie mentality as before
> 
> if only fanboys would realise that criticisms come from a place of love and hope not of hate and anger


I’d say that’s fair. 1.4 million people checked them out and almost half have left. You’re bound to find some of them on the internet. And AEW certainly is not what was promised. That is just objective reality. You don’t have to be mad about that if you’ve got bad taste, but it’s objectively not what was promised.


----------



## Ozell Gray

VIP86 said:


> interesting observation after a quick look at the first Ratings thread in september last year
> a lot of the people who were posting very enthusiastically about AEW back then
> are not posting here AT ALL now
> isn't this an indication that the product failed to live up to a lot of people's expectations ?
> 
> another interesting observation is that people who are criticizing AEW now, were very optimistic and used to almost beg AEW to succeed back then.
> isn't this a proof that the people who are defending blindly, are the ones holding the product back from achieving much larger success
> 
> because AEW proved that they are listening to their fan base (especially the fanboys)
> but unfortunately fanboys didn't demand improvement, because they are still watching with the same indie mentality as before
> 
> if only fanboys would realise that criticisms come from a place of love and hope not of hate and anger


They started with 1.4 million viewers and lost 30% of their audience so you're correct the fanboys are holding back the company and the company itself is holding itself back from succeeding.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Wwe buying the ‘aew’ keyword in prep for their upcoming mobile game










its in stuff like this the real ‘wars’ will be fought


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Wwe buying the ‘aew’ keyword in prep for their upcoming mobile game
> 
> View attachment 95019
> 
> 
> its in stuff like this the real ‘wars’ will be fought


Begun the Keyword Wars have.


----------



## VIP86

not likely
AEW is a wrestling company
so the search engine is probably showing all the results related to wrestling currently


----------



## Mike E

The main demo's have always mattered, its how they've been rating the top shows of the night for as long as I can remember. Its never been about total viewership in the top 150, its always been about key demo. Thats why AEW is always one of the top rated shows every Wednesday night, typically a top 15 show in the top 150.


----------



## VIP86

the demo is important but can also be misleading
how do we know that the people outside the demo don't spend money ?
and where does the teenagers who are inside the demo get the money they spend from ?
from the parents who are outside the demo
so the overall viewership matters just as much


----------



## Not Lying

Ozell Gray said:


> If you actually read that post that @The Wood posted about the "demos" you'd see he also said that Fox would cancel SmackDown because they'll want 3 million viewers so his post wasn't about "demos" but viewership. *People on here love twisting people's posts to fit a false narrative.* If his post was about "the demos" then why did he mention Fox won't be happy about SmackDown doing under 3 million viewers? It's disingenuous* to claim he was strictly talking about the demos* when he brought up "the demos" to illustrate that WWE aren't getting enough of that 18-49 bracket to tune into Raw and SmackDown.


Look who's talking  
Another hypocrite. 



bdon said:


> I will agree that you *spoke of demos AND viewership*, I do have one question I wanted to ask yesterday when this was first brought up: is SmackDown in danger of being cancelled? They’re doing roughly 33% less than many would have imagined given they are on the most basic of cable television..?
> 
> If we’re being fair here, of course...


you get it


----------



## bdon

The Definition of Technician said:


> Look who's talking
> Another hypocrite.
> 
> 
> 
> you get it


He mentioned the demos, but not anything specific to 18-49. It was more about the growing issue of AEW’s older audience.


----------



## Ozell Gray

The Definition of Technician said:


> Look who's talking
> Another hypocrite.


Name calling because you got called out for taking something out of context and twisting what people say. You never change.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

VIP86 said:


> the demo is important but can also be misleading
> how do we know that the people outside the demo don't spend money ?
> and where does the teenagers who are inside the demo get the money they spend from ?
> from the parents who are outside the demo
> so the overall viewership matters just as much


18-49 for AEW is mainly occupied by 18-35 if you look at their crowds pre COVID. Would I be correct in saying that 30 is generally where your average American person starts making real money and is debt free or would that be incorrect? (Not asking you specifically VIP, Americans in general)

Also, going by the Reddit census (Reddit is the largest gathering of AEW fans on the internet) your average 18-49 wrestling fan generally lives at home or in shared accommodation and makes very little money.

This is why myself and a fair few others have always argued that the demo isn't that important in wrestling.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Chip Chipperson said:


> 18-49 for AEW is mainly occupied by 18-35 if you look at their crowds pre COVID. Would I be correct in saying that 30 is generally where your average American person starts making real money and is debt free or would that be incorrect? (Not asking you specifically VIP, Americans in general)
> 
> Also, going by the Reddit census (Reddit is the largest gathering of AEW fans on the internet) your average 18-49 wrestling fan generally lives at home or in shared accommodation and makes very little money.
> 
> This is why myself and a fair few others have always argued that the demo isn't that important in wrestling.


AEW fans are mainly in their late 40s.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1250183328419975171


Thats why claiming their audience is "so much younger than WWE's" is misleading because AEW fans are only 6 or 7 years younger than WWE fans on average. So essentially AEW's audience isn't "young" either but old just like WWE's.


----------



## The Wood

Mike E said:


> The main demo's have always mattered, its how they've been rating the top shows of the night for as long as I can remember. Its never been about total viewership in the top 150, its always been about key demo. Thats why AEW is always one of the top rated shows every Wednesday night, typically a top 15 show in the top 150.


You’re using that bias to justify that bias though. I don’t put much stock into the Showbuzz Top 150. Nielsen themselves don’t even rank like that. They have a social media list.

Demos ARE important, but not in the reductive way wrestling fans make them out to. And the measurement in wrestling — through the Monday Night Wars and throughout discussions of Raw and SmackDown declining — has always been viewership.



bdon said:


> He mentioned the demos, but not anything specific to 18-49. It was more about the growing issue of AEW’s older audience.


Yep. Well, SmackDown, but it’s pretty clear I’m not talking about the 18-49 demo like it’s a power level. Thanks for catching that.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Ozell Gray said:


> AEW fans are mainly in their late 40s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1250183328419975171
> 
> 
> Thats why claiming their audience is "so much younger than WWE's" is misleading because AEW fans are only 6 or 7 years younger than WWE fans on average. So essentially AEW's audience isn't "young" either but old just like WWE's.


Interesting, I didn't know this. Thanks!


----------



## The Wood

All wrestling is having trouble hitting younger viewers.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> You’re using that bias to justify that bias though. I don’t put much stock into the Showbuzz Top 150. Nielsen themselves don’t even rank like that. They have a social media list.
> 
> Demos ARE important, but not in the reductive way wrestling fans make them out to. And the measurement in wrestling — through the Monday Night Wars and throughout discussions of Raw and SmackDown declining — has always been viewership.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep. Well, SmackDown, but it’s pretty clear I’m not talking about the 18-49 demo like it’s a power level. Thanks for catching that.


I meant SmackDown. Was working and typing while listening to the deck crew complain lol


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> I meant SmackDown. Was working and typing while listening to the deck crew complain lol


You tell ‘em, bdon.


----------



## VIP86

Ozell Gray said:


> AEW fans are mainly in their late 40s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1250183328419975171
> 
> 
> Thats why claiming their audience is "so much younger than WWE's" is misleading because AEW fans are only 6 or 7 years younger than WWE fans on average. So essentially AEW's audience isn't "young" either but old just like WWE's.


wait wait wait
wait a fucking minute
so you're telling me that the AEW super fanboys who keep insulting everyone
are actually people in their late 40s ????

if this is true
that's just....sad


----------



## Ozell Gray

VIP86 said:


> wait wait wait
> wait a fucking minute
> so you're telling me that the AEW super fanboys who keep insulting everyone
> are actually people in their late 40s ????
> 
> if this is true
> that's just....sad


Yep it's true bro. 

The Wrestling Observer Newsletter reports that the AEW audience has aged since April 1, in the second quarter of the year. The demographic numbers measured include live and same day through DVR. While AEW still has the youngest average audience in wrestling, that median age is 48 (69% male). RAW is the second youngest (51, 64% male), followed by Smackdown (54, 60% male) and NXT (56, 64% male).










411MANIA | Notes On Changing Demographic Numbers for AEW Dynamite


Some updated demographic numbers for AEW Dynamite in the second quarter of 2020, as the average audience has aged older...




411mania.com


----------



## bdon

Lack of crowd killed most shows in regards to the youthful audiences. My son watches highlights and a full episode of Dynamite once a month. My nephew is a lifelong WWE fan, and when the crowds weren’t available, he quit watching altogether and told my sister she could cancel the Network.


----------



## VIP86

when it comes to TV Ratings
this pandemic truly fucked over Vince McMahon
and really accelerated their decline


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Someone should be able to tell me but the rankings above of AEW's audience, RAW etc are JUST for TV right? Because damn, if the youngest age for wrestling fans if 48 we all in some trouble in about 12 years.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Chip Chipperson said:


> Someone should be able to tell me but the rankings above of AEW's audience, RAW etc are JUST for TV right? Because damn, if the youngest age for wrestling fans if 48 we all in some trouble in about 12 years.


Here's the breakdown most AEW fans are 48 years old (not a young audience like some like to claim) with most (69%) of them being male, Raw's audience is 51 years old with 64% being male, SmackDown's audience is 54 years old with 60% being male, and NXT's audience being is 56 years old with 64% being male. 

So WWE has a more diverse audience than AEW which is why despite NXT's lower demos they have better sponsors because NXT reaches a more diverse audience in terms of males, females, whites, blacks, and Hispanics. 

AEW's fanbase isn't diverse at all and is filled with mostly men and most of them are white males which doesn't appeal to majority of advertisers. Overall AEW's fanbase is mostly white guys and lacks diversity while WWE has tons of diversity among it's audience.


----------



## VIP86

Chip Chipperson said:


> Someone should be able to tell me but the rankings above of AEW's audience, RAW etc are JUST for TV right? Because damn, if the youngest age for wrestling fans if 48 we all in some trouble in about 12 years.


trouble ?
if things continue like this
12 years from now WWE will be lucky to get 500,000 viewers
wrestling is slowly dying, the internet killed it
people now have the entire world at their fingertips
wrestling can't compete with this kind of infinite source of entertainment
before the internet, PRO wrestling was that special thing on TV
now it's not so special anymore
Kayfabe was truly what made wrestling interesting


----------



## redban

I legit didn’t know that wrestling fans are so old


----------



## Cult03

I don't know if any of us fit into that age bracket. I'm 29, turning 21 next month. I'd say younger viewers are the ones watching online streams. But those viewers still exist. This is another problem with taking ratings so seriously. Hopefully wrestling can work out a way to find those fans. Maybe Netflix or a similar streaming Network?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

It is kind of telling that apart from Pippen the youngest person I've come across on this forum was 23 years old. I think most of us around here are between 30-40.

When I first signed up to a forum I was 14 and there were plenty of other kids.


----------



## Klitschko

I think that thisisit? poster guy is somewhere in his teens. Maybe in wrong but pretty sure he said once that he was pretty young.


----------



## redban

Cult03 said:


> I don't know if any of us fit into that age bracket. *I'm 29, turning 21 next month.* I'd say younger viewers are the ones watching online streams. But those viewers still exist. This is another problem with taking ratings so seriously. Hopefully wrestling can work out a way to find those fans. Maybe Netflix or a similar streaming Network?


----------



## Cult03

redban said:


>


I don't want to be 30.. haha


----------



## Ozell Gray

Klitschko said:


> I think that thisisit? poster guy is somewhere in his teens. Maybe in wrong but pretty sure he said once that he was pretty young.


Are you for real bro? He admitted he's a teenager? No wonder he leaves posts where he goes on tangents like a child if true.


----------



## Ozell Gray

By the way I'm 24 so I'm in that 18-49 bracket demo.


----------



## VIP86

Cult03 said:


> I'm 29, turning 21 next month.


huh ? 🤯


----------



## Klitschko

Cult03 said:


> I don't want to be 30.. haha


I turned 30 earlier this year. Get ready for everything to go downhill like AEW's ratings post first show. 



Ozell Gray said:


> Are you for real bro? He admitted he's a teenager? No wonder he leaves posts where he goes on tangents like a child if true.


Yea he was talking to someone once and said that he's probably one of the youngest members here or something like that. I figured he was anywhere from 14 to 20 personally.


----------



## VIP86

Aug 22, 1986 (Age: 34)
but i recently decided to wait a few years before moving to 35
i don't like to rush things


----------



## VIP86

Klitschko said:


> I turned 30 earlier this year. Get ready for everything to go downhill like AEW's ratings post first show.


i can confirm
34 and i feel like a senior citizen
i hate time
i need a one way DeLorean trip to the 90s


----------



## Not Lying

Ozell Gray said:


> Name calling because you got called out for taking something out of context and twisting what people say. You never change.


You are the geek who everyone here has figured out you have terrible reading comprehension and you're calling me out on twisting things?

and then in your very same post YOU TELL ME this "*strictly* talking about the demos".

Please go back to my discussion with Wood and tell me where I said he was talking "strictly" about demos.

All I was saying demos were important and talked about even before AEW, by none other than the biggest hater himself Wood. I didn't say he didn't talk about viewership in his post, I conveniently ignored it because it's *irrelevant to my point. I wanted to show demos were discussed, just like he did*. Do you get how that works? (Of course you don't )

I am 100% right here and you're all just too bitter and HATERS to just admit "demos always mattered and were already discussedm but became a bigger talking point with AEW who is doing well in them".

. Let me re-quote myself so everyone of you geeks can understand basics.



> Step 1: All the talk is "none of this demo talk existed before Meltzer focused on it for AEW's favor".
> 
> Step 2: I showed a quote from you, from mid-2019, talking about the demo. Thus, proving that demo talk, did indeed exist before Meltzer.





bdon said:


> He mentioned the demos, but not anything specific to 18-49. It was more about the growing issue of AEW’s older audience.


He mentioned it in response to someone to someone saying the ratings for 25-39 were a huge decline and that most people watching *were over 50*.
It doesn't change the CONCEPT of what demos are, key demo = younger audience.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Definition of Technician said:


> You are the geek who everyone here has figured out you have terrible reading comprehension and you're calling me out on twisting things?
> 
> and then in your very same post YOU TELL ME this "*strictly* talking about the demos".
> 
> Please go back to my discussion with Wood and tell me where I said he was talking "strictly" about demos.
> 
> All I was saying demos were important and talked about even before AEW, by none other than the biggest hater himself Wood. I didn't say he didn't talk about viewership in his post, I conveniently ignored it because it's *irrelevant to my point. I wanted to show demos were discussed, just like he did*. Do you get how that works? (Of course you don't )
> 
> I am 100% right here and you're all just too bitter and HATERS to just admit "demos always mattered and were already discussedm but became a bigger talking point with AEW who is doing well in them".
> 
> . Let me re-quote myself so everyone of you geeks can understand basics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He mentioned it in response to someone to someone saying the ratings for 25-39 were a huge decline and that most people watching *were over 50*.
> It doesn't change the CONCEPT of what demos are, key demo = younger audience.


Insert
stop stop! They’re already dead!
Meme


----------



## Ozell Gray

I said it’s disingenuous to say he was strictly talking about “the demos.”




Ozell Gray said:


> It's disingenuous to claim he was strictly talking about the demos when he brought up "the demos" to illustrate that WWE aren't getting enough of that 18-49 bracket to tune into Raw and SmackDown.



You clearly have a reading comprehension problem and twisting my words like a troll.


The Definition of Technician said:


> You are the geek who everyone here has figured out you have terrible reading comprehension and you're calling me out on twisting things?
> 
> and then in your very same post YOU TELL ME this "*strictly* talking about the demos".
> 
> Please go back to my discussion with Wood and tell me where I said he was talking "strictly" about demos.
> 
> All I was saying demos were important and talked about even before AEW, by none other than the biggest hater himself Wood. I didn't say he didn't talk about viewership in his post, I conveniently ignored it because it's *irrelevant to my point. I wanted to show demos were discussed, just like he did*. Do you get how that works? (Of course you don't )
> 
> I am 100% right here and you're all just too bitter and HATERS to just admit "demos always mattered and were already discussedm but became a bigger talking point with AEW who is doing well in them".
> 
> . Let me re-quote myself so everyone of you geeks can understand basics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have reading comprehension problem obviously because I said it’s disingenuous to say he was strictly talking about “the demo.”





Ozell Gray said:


> If you actually read that post that @The Wood posted about the "demos" you'd see he also said that Fox would cancel SmackDown because they'll want 3 million viewers so his post wasn't about "demos" but viewership. People on here love twisting people's posts to fit a false narrative. If his post was about "the demos" then why did he mention Fox won't be happy about SmackDown doing under 3 million viewers? It's disingenuous to claim he was strictly talking about the demos when he brought up "the demos" to illustrate that WWE aren't getting enough of that 18-49 bracket to tune into Raw and SmackDown.



See how easy that was for me to show you’re twisting my words? But that’s what you do because you’re a troll.


These are your posts that you posted



The Definition of Technician said:


> Love it when haters double down on stupid even after links and posts proving this shit wrong.
> 
> Just because it wasn't heavily discussed before doesn't mean it wasn't relevant. It just means people got educated and now understand ratings and rankings better.
> 
> Hey @The Wood Would you mind telling everyone why you made a post discussing demos in mid 2019 for Smackdown?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All Raw TV Ratings, Buys, Attendance, Draw Talk Here -...
> 
> 
> What characters? They're both just "good wrestlers " who win a lot. Neither even has a character. They looked like they were gonna give AJ one when he dropped Vince but he went back to being just a good rassler that wins a lot. Lol The point clearly went over your head, so I won't bother.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Demos have mattered. They became a bigger talking point because it's impressive how much AEW has outdone its competitor with younger audience member.





The Definition of Technician said:


> Was the breakdown posted?
> 
> 
> 
> What a fall after the first Q! What a shame.
> 
> Can't blame the fans for tuning out when Cody was facing someone they barely built in Angelico.
> 
> Q5 is usually up, so it being down means quite a lot, and that fans just aren't into the IC crap anymore.
> 
> Main event losing viewers is also not a good sign.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The demos *have been worrying for a long time*. WWE appeals to old white men. That should say something. They have real trouble engaging younger and more varied demos. "Cool people."
> 
> lol. your first sentence highlights that demos are important. Stop burying yourself.





The Definition of Technician said:


> Lying.
> 
> Lmao.
> 
> I'll spell it out for you.
> 
> 1- All the talk is "none of this demo talk existed before Meltzer focused on it for AEW's favor".
> 
> 2- I showed a quote from you, from mid-2019, talking about the demo. Thus, proving that demo talk, did indeed exist before Meltzer.
> 
> Who's lying now?



You obviously forgot what you posted yesterday. What people found most important was the viewership. Demos were RARELY brought up but became “the only thing that matters” when it comes to AEW.

You fanboys are the biggest problem here. You come with the weakest insults which doesn’t prove anything other than you have no argument so you have to resort to acting like a kindergartner.


----------



## VIP86

something interesting i noticed
when i read or watch wrestling news about WWE's declining Ratings (my favorite news)
they mainly talk about the overall viewership
they mention the 18-49 demo as a secondary stats
they still discuss the Demo, but not as much as the overall viewership

so i think we must not rule out the posepilty of double standards here


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Of course there is a double standard, when AEW kills NXT in the overall the demo gets mentioned secondary or not at all.


----------



## Not Lying

@Ozell Gray you still get a big F  . Because all those quotes never explicitly say that I was accusing Wood of talking "*strictly* about demos", I accused him of *talking about demos. 

But we all know by now what you are to understand that. *


----------



## The Wood

Cult03 said:


> I don't know if any of us fit into that age bracket. I'm 29, turning 21 next month. I'd say younger viewers are the ones watching online streams. But those viewers still exist. This is another problem with taking ratings so seriously. Hopefully wrestling can work out a way to find those fans. Maybe Netflix or a similar streaming Network?


Streaming is no doubt the future. You can still draw a massive audience to cable and network television, but adults that live out of home just wouldn't be getting it. I thought wrestling on TNT would carry some prestige, but it needs to be coupled with a more modern approach. Still, millions upon millions of US homes still have cable. Everyone could be doing a lot better across the board. 



VIP86 said:


> something interesting i noticed
> when i read or watch wrestling news about WWE's declining Ratings (my favorite news)
> they mainly talk about the overall viewership
> they mention the 18-49 demo as a secondary stats
> they still discuss the Demo, but not as much as the overall viewership
> 
> so i think we must not rule out the posepilty of double standards here


That's exactly it. It's viewership with Raw and SmackDown. AEW looks more impressive when you compare the demo to AEW (probably because a large segment of that demo watches on the WWE Network).


----------



## DaSlacker

The Wood said:


> All wrestling is having trouble hitting younger viewers.


In my experience the kids and teens don't really watch linear television these days. Unless it's the latter stages of big, really popular reality show or major sporting contest they're watching with a parent. Apart from that it's just background noise. Fortnite, Roblox and Tiktok > Pro Wrestling lol. 

On a positive note WWE have at least had some success transferring their viewers from live television to online video clips. For example, the Raw and Smackdown highlights on YouTube reach 1 million views a lot quicker than they did 5 years ago. On a negative note they have lower peaks than 3 years ago. AEW has only had moderate success there too, with many clips drawing similar numbers to the NXT highlights. Sting and Moxley are definitely online draws. 

My theory is that years and years of silly WWE and TNA sunk the industry and that's partly why AEW's premiere episode had such a low starting number. It's bad for longtime fans because it's a vicious circle where wrestling loses fans for good and in response wrestling goes more niche with all the cinematic matches, spot fests and ridiculous angles. Both McMahon and Khan are guilty of it.


----------



## Ozell Gray

The Definition of Technician said:


> @Ozell Gray you still get a big F  . Because all those quotes never explicitly say that I was accusing Wood of talking "*strictly* about demos", I accused him of *talking about demos.
> 
> But we all know by now what you are to understand that. *


Backtracking as usual when that isn’t what you said and when confronted with your own posts you lie about it. Nice job 😂


----------



## Not Lying

Ozell Gray said:


> Backtracking as usual when that isn’t what you said and when confronted with your own posts you lie about it. Nice job 😂


No. Show me where I accused him of talking strictly about demos. Show me where I said he didn't talk about viewership. Don't do your usual shtick and put all my quotes without directly putting the phrase I accused Wood talking "strictly" about Demos. Do you know what strictly even means?

The English language is clearly very hard for you to understand so I'll try to make it as simple as possible.

1- People were saying demos, in general, weren't discussed.
2- Wood did discuss it.

I don't give a shit if he talked about viewership also. That is irrelevant. You are twisting my words because that's all you're good for, you little try-hard.


----------



## Ozell Gray

The Definition of Technician said:


> No. Show me where I accused him of talking strictly about demos. Show me where I said he didn't talk about viewership. Don't do your usual shtick and put all my quotes without directly putting the phrase I accused Wood talking "strictly" about Demos. Do you know what strictly even means?
> 
> The English language is clearly very hard for you to understand so I'll try to make it as simple as possible.
> 
> 1- People were saying demos, in general, weren't discussed.
> 2- Wood did discuss it.
> 
> I don't give a shit if he talked about viewership also. That is irrelevant. You are twisting my words because that's all you're good for, you little try-hard.



I already you the posts where you were talking about his post about “the demos.” His post was about viewership and you made it seem like it was about demos when it wasn’t. Your reading comprehension skills aren’t up to par clearly. You love to lie and twist things when you’re backed into a corner but it’s not working.


----------



## The Wood

DaSlacker said:


> In my experience the kids and teens don't really watch linear television these days. Unless it's the latter stages of big, really popular reality show or major sporting contest they're watching with a parent. Apart from that it's just background noise. Fortnite, Roblox and Tiktok > Pro Wrestling lol.
> 
> On a positive note WWE have at least had some success transferring their viewers from live television to online video clips. For example, the Raw and Smackdown highlights on YouTube reach 1 million views a lot quicker than they did 5 years ago. On a negative note they have lower peaks than 3 years ago. AEW has only had moderate success there too, with many clips drawing similar numbers to the NXT highlights. Sting and Moxley are definitely online draws.
> 
> My theory is that years and years of silly WWE and TNA sunk the industry and that's partly why AEW's premiere episode had such a low starting number. It's bad for longtime fans because it's a vicious circle where wrestling loses fans for good and in response wrestling goes more niche with all the cinematic matches, spot fests and ridiculous angles. Both McMahon and Khan are guilty of it.


Excellent post. I don’t have much to add.

It surprised me to see a while back that there is a one hour version of both Raw and SmackDown that air in Australia. Someone has to edit that program down. It’s probably sold. Vince has worked out how to monetise the fatigue on his own program. It’s incredible. It’s like WWE programming is YouTube with the ads and then you can get a premium service that just gives you a bit.

How wrestling is delivered, both the medium and the content itself, is probably going to have to innovate. And wrestling is usually at the front of every media innovation.

I think we will get programs like Raw and SmackDown delivered concurrently through different mediums with different sizeable outputs for different audiences at some point. Raw and SmackDown as giant supershows on USA and FOX, for whatever that is worth, with a one or two hour version, for even just “Match of the Week” being produced for Peacock, Disney+, ESPN+, Netflix or even a live content off-shoot of that.

My guess is that the WWE plans to expand into succinctness, which seems odd, but makes perfect sense if you think about it. And is way more lucrative than scaling back to maximise less content for arguably more per minute.

WWE is in the volume business now. It’s not a wrestling program. 



The Definition of Technician said:


> No. Show me where I accused him of talking strictly about demos. Show me where I said he didn't talk about viewership. Don't do your usual shtick and put all my quotes without directly putting the phrase I accused Wood talking "strictly" about Demos. Do you know what strictly even means?
> 
> The English language is clearly very hard for you to understand so I'll try to make it as simple as possible.
> 
> 1- People were saying demos, in general, weren't discussed.
> 2- Wood did discuss it.
> 
> I don't give a shit if he talked about viewership also. That is irrelevant. You are twisting my words because that's all you're good for, you little try-hard.


Argh, would you stop? Everyone knows the demos existed. No one meant they have literally never come up. Unless your point _is_ that they were the focus of my argument, then you have no reason to be bringing it up. At all.

If I’m saying viewership is the most important factor, then you’ve got no “gotcha” moment.

The “fact” is, and many others have been smart enough to see through you on this because they know it’s true: Viewership has always been the focus when it comes to Raw and SmackDown being programs in decline. From the Observer and places like that. Stop being obtuse and pretending you don’t know what we mean. It’s dishonest and a bad look for the AEW demographic. Oops, I used the word again.


----------



## DammitChrist

VIP86 said:


> interesting observation after a quick look at the first Ratings thread in september last year
> a lot of the people who were posting very enthusiastically about AEW back then
> are not posting here AT ALL now
> isn't this an indication that the product failed to live up to a lot of people's expectations ?


Gee, maybe a BIG reason why this is the case is because of the fact that the mediocre December 2019 update killed A LOT of the activity on this forum (along with the pandemic later on preventing AEW from having live crowds and from having access to SEVERAL talents who were stranded in other countries), and that it really has nothing to do with the entertaining product "failing to live to everyone's expectations."

That's such a ridiculous observation, and you know it.



> another interesting observation is that people who are criticizing AEW now, were very optimistic and used to almost beg AEW to succeed back then.
> *isn't this a proof that the people who are defending blindly, are the ones holding the product back from achieving much larger success*
> 
> because AEW proved that they are listening to their fan base (especially the fanboys)
> but unfortunately fanboys didn't demand improvement, because they are still watching with the same indie mentality as before


Once again, you are wrong (as usual) :lol

The passionate fans are actually a big reason why the company continues to hold up really well with the viewership due to their support for the product. It's baffling to blame them for "holding the product back from achieving more" when those fans are the ones who are helping the company stay as successful as they are (during a PANDEMIC too within their FIRST year).

If anything, the whiny critics are holding the company back for (blindly) moaning and whining about whatever AEW does on their weekly shows to the point where they could possibly lure away potentially new viewers with their pessimism/cynicism before they even get the chance to get entertained by what they see in a future Dynamite episode. 

It's best for the company to not listen to the majority of the bitter critics since most of their criticism isn't even constructive too, and they'll just moan about the shows no matter how entertaining they are to many wrestling fans on a weekly basis. Instead, they should continue focusing on the optimistic/passionate fans by delivering more good shows every week, and they should listen to the FEW constructive criticisms that we rarely see (on here especially). This will eventually help out AEW in the long-term.



> if only fanboys would realise that criticisms come from a place of love and hope not of hate and anger



Except the bitter critics don't really do any of that. They don't complain from a place of "love." They don't complain from a place of "hope" (just check out that recent thread that had to get RE-TITLED because a critic assumed that "everybody" lost hope in AEW and that everyone hates the shows). Oh, believe me, most of the criticisms come from a place of hate and anger; which explains why it's becoming more accepted to be a pessimist by the community lately.

Honestly, a *minority* of those criticisms do come from a place of love and hope though. They just happen to be drowned out by the hyperbolic, destructive criticisms that get spammed on here every day.


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> Gee, maybe a BIG reason why this is the case is because of the fact that the mediocre December 2019 update killed A LOT of the activity on this forum (along with the pandemic later on preventing AEW from having live crowds and from having access to SEVERAL talents who were stranded in other countries), and that it really has nothing to do with the entertaining product "failing to live to everyone's expectations."
> 
> That's such a ridiculous observation, and you know it.


well, there is another observation i didn't mention at first since i didn't want to trigger the fanboys.
but since you asked for it

all the fanboys who used to defend blindly back then, are still posting and defending blindly now
so by your logic, the December 2019 update killed the activity of the normal fans but didn't affect the Fanboys ?

isn't this a "ridiculous" argument


----------



## The Wood

Raw got a slight bounce back. PPV doesn't mean what it used to. You could probably expect a slight increase for AEW too, under normal circumstances. Given that they are in a different slot, are taped and the show sounds awful, it might not get much back, but as Raw goes, so does the business.


----------



## Not Lying

Ozell Gray said:


> I already you the posts where you were talking about his post about “the demos.” His post was about viewership and you made it seem like it was about demos when it wasn’t. Your reading comprehension skills aren’t up to par clearly. You love to lie and twist things when you’re backed into a corner but it’s not working.


So you can't do what I asked?
Thanks for confirming to everyone what they already know about you Mr. little try-hard parrot



The Wood said:


> Argh, would you stop? Everyone knows the demos existed. No one meant they have literally never come up. Unless your point _is_ that they were the focus of my argument, then you have no reason to be bringing it up. At all.
> 
> If I’m saying viewership is the most important factor, then you’ve got no “gotcha” moment.
> 
> The “fact” is, and many others have been smart enough to see through you on this because they know it’s true: Viewership has always been the focus when it comes to Raw and SmackDown being programmed in decline. From the Observer and places like that. Stop being obtuse and pretending you don’t know what we mean. It’s dishonest and a bad look for the AEW demographic. Oops, I used the word again.



What both of you nerds are doing is called deflecting. Stop changing the subject. Changing your stance when backed into a corner to "No one meant they have literally never come up" is disingenuous because that's exactly what many of you haters have claimed.

I can also play your little game now "You were saying that *only *viewership matters and that it was the only thing discussed before AEW". All I did was prove to you that demo was discussed before and that it mattered .. using your own words against you xD

Merry Christmas you little hypocrites.


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> So you can't do what I asked?
> Thanks for confirming to everyone what they already know about you Mr. little try-hard parrot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What both of you nerds are doing is called deflecting. Stop changing the subject. Changing your stance when backed into a corner to "No one meant they have literally never come up" is disingenuous because that's exactly what many of you haters have claimed.
> 
> I can also play your little game now "You were saying that *only *viewership matters and that it was the only thing discussed before AEW". All I did was prove to you that demo was discussed before and that it mattered .. using your own words against you xD
> 
> Merry Christmas you little hypocrites.


No, you are taking that point way too literally. Demographics are a thing that have existed forever. That isn’t shocking. The point was always that they have never been the chief metric for measuring the success of a wrestling program. Go back and look at Raw vs. Nitro. Go back and look at the decline of Raw and SmackDown.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Wood said:


> No, you are taking that point way too literally. Demographics are a thing that have existed forever. That isn’t shocking. The point was always that they have never been the chief metric for measuring the success of a wrestling program. Go back and look at Raw vs. Nitro. Go back and look at the decline of Raw and SmackDown.


Go watch a WWE documentary and when they show the ratings it's never the demo. It's always 3.4 Vs 2.8 or 4.6 Vs 2.5


----------



## The Wood

Chip Chipperson said:


> Go watch a WWE documentary and when they show the ratings it's never the demo. It's always 3.4 Vs 2.8 or 4.6 Vs 2.5


Same as in the Observer. Same as when Bischoff counts his 83 weeks. Same as what the WWF was trying to win.


----------



## DaSlacker

The Wood said:


> Excellent post. I don’t have much to add.
> 
> It surprised me to see a while back that there is a one hour version of both Raw and SmackDown that air in Australia. Someone has to edit that program down. It’s probably sold. Vince has worked out how to monetise the fatigue on his own program. It’s incredible. It’s like WWE programming is YouTube with the ads and then you can get a premium service that just gives you a bit.
> 
> How wrestling is delivered, both the medium and the content itself, is probably going to have to innovate. And wrestling is usually at the front of every media innovation.
> 
> I think we will get programs like Raw and SmackDown delivered concurrently through different mediums with different sizeable outputs for different audiences at some point. Raw and SmackDown as giant supershows on USA and FOX, for whatever that is worth, with a one or two hour version, for even just “Match of the Week” being produced for Peacock, Disney+, ESPN+, Netflix or even a live content off-shoot of that.
> 
> My guess is that the WWE plans to expand into succinctness, which seems odd, but makes perfect sense if you think about it. And is way more lucrative than scaling back to maximise less content for arguably more per minute.
> 
> WWE is in the volume business now. It’s not a wrestling program.


There are edited versions of Raw and SmackDown here in the UK. Weekend mornings at 11am to lure in the kids. Usually a lot of ads for Mattel action figures and their kids magazine. From what I've seen they cut out a lot of the inane BS and you're left with a couple of decent shows, albeit a bit too edited, that remind me of what wrestling was like before it went totally nuts. Maybe that's the way to view it these days as opposed to longing for another golden age of attitude era. i.e find a version that meets your needs. Even if the promoter isn't offering one, due to modern software it's easy to find a fan edited version. 

I also find AEW a better watch if you view it via YouTube highlights and only watch the full length matches that hold interest. Simply because it trims down the long 50/50 matches and you get something that wouldn't be too out of place 30 years ago. 

You're spot on about WWE being in the volume business and it does make sense. Especially with entertainment consumption being so diverse and lucrative. I suppose the long term worry is driving away so many people that the bridge between monetization and worthlessness starts to collide. Then it becomes a tricky game of winning them back.


----------



## The Wood

DaSlacker said:


> There are edited versions of Raw and SmackDown here in the UK. Weekend mornings at 11am to lure in the kids. Usually a lot of ads for Mattel action figures and their kids magazine. From what I've seen they cut out a lot of the inane BS and you're left with a couple of decent shows, albeit a bit too edited, that remind me of what wrestling was like before it went totally nuts. Maybe that's the way to view it these days as opposed to longing for another golden age of attitude era. i.e find a version that meets your needs. Even if the promoter isn't offering one, due to modern software it's easy to find a fan edited version.
> 
> I also find AEW a better watch if you view it via YouTube highlights and only watch the full length matches that hold interest. Simply because it trims down the long 50/50 matches and you get something that wouldn't be too out of place 30 years ago.
> 
> You're spot on about WWE being in the volume business and it does make sense. Especially with entertainment consumption being so diverse and lucrative. I suppose the long term worry is driving away so many people that the bridge between monetization and worthlessness starts to collide. Then it becomes a tricky game of winning them back.


Another fantastic post.

I’m sure WWE gets paid a pretty penny for those programs too. And they seem to have no trouble marketing them to children.

The risk is what you say. I wonder if Raw and SmackDown, in full-form, are eventually abandoned to the most hardcore of hardcore fans, and that streaming services become home to more streamlined content.

Eg. Raw is 3 hours on Monday night, but 2 hours are also used for Peacock, which becomes the more “focused on” stuff. Maybe even 1 hour at first. A top-loaded opening segment and then a full show for the people there and the USA audience.


----------



## Not Lying

The Wood said:


> Demographics are a thing that have existed forever. That isn’t shocking.


That's all I needed to hear


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> That's all I needed to hear


No it’s not. You needed to hear they mattered like Meltzer, Alvarez and apologists say they do, which just isn’t the case. And I’ve explained why. You’re being a troll at this point.

Is this what AEW fanboys are reduced to?


----------



## Not Lying

The Wood said:


> No it’s not. You needed to hear they mattered like Meltzer, Alvarez and apologists say they do, which just isn’t the case. And I’ve explained why. You’re being a troll at this point.
> 
> Is this what AEW fanboys are reduced to?


Lol. is this you being a sore loser now?


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> Lol. is this you being a sore loser now?


You’re the one lying, hombre. You’re just lying to yourself at this point. And I’m pretty sure everyone sees it.


----------



## Ozell Gray

The Definition of Technician said:


> So you can't do what I asked?
> Thanks for confirming to everyone what they already know about you Mr. little try-hard parrot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What both of you nerds are doing is called deflecting. Stop changing the subject. Changing your stance when backed into a corner to "No one meant they have literally never come up" is disingenuous because that's exactly what many of you haters have claimed.
> 
> I can also play your little game now "You were saying that *only *viewership matters and that it was the only thing discussed before AEW". All I did was prove to you that demo was discussed before and that it mattered .. using your own words against you xD
> 
> Merry Christmas you little hypocrites.



You just keep lying and anyone reading can see that but carry on trolling.


----------



## fabi1982

So Impact didnt even made the 150 with the „heavy“ AEW involvement and another „paid ad by AEW with Tony/Tony“? Damn, that „impact“...


----------



## DammitChrist

I did not watch Impact last night because I didn’t really hear much advertising of Kenny Omega (with Don Callis) this time. 

I honestly assumed that Omega was going to be absent on this week’s Impact episode.



Ozell Gray said:


> You just keep lying and anyone reading can see that but carry on trolling.


I don’t see anything that @The Definition of Technician has posted on here lately as “lies” tbh.


----------



## The Wood

fabi1982 said:


> So Impact didnt even made the 150 with the „heavy“ AEW involvement and another „paid ad by AEW with Tony/Tony“? Damn, that „impact“...


Oof. I’ll cut them some slack because it’s Christmas time. But this isn’t exactly a hot angle. 



DammitChrist said:


> I did not watch Impact last night because I didn’t really hear much advertising of Kenny Omega (with Don Callis) this time.
> 
> I honestly assumed that Omega was going to be absent on this week’s Impact episode.
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t see anything that @The Definition of Technician has posted on here lately as “lies” tbh.


Of course you wouldn’t. That’s a pretty good indicator that they are.


----------



## Ozell Gray

DammitChrist said:


> I don’t see anything that @The Definition of Technician has posted on here lately as “lies” tbh.


The posts about the wood talking about “the demos” when that post was talking about the viewership and he only bring up “the demos” when he was saying it’s worrying WWE aren’t getting a big enough audience out of that 18-49 demographic. The point of the post was him talking about Fox expectations of SmackDown getting 3 million viewers and anything under that they won’t accept.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> . Of course you wouldn’t. That’s a pretty good indicator that they are.


To be fair, I haven’t been highly active on the AEW section lately (due to work shifts, recent NJPW shows, and finishing up my thread-series for this year); so of course I wouldn’t be that aware if Omega was advertised on Impact this week 

I’ve already seen the Omega and Callis backstage promo on YouTube last night though, so everything worked up just fine for me in the end


----------



## Garty

The Wood said:


> No, you are taking that point way too literally. Demographics are a thing that have existed forever. That isn’t shocking. The point was always that they have never been the chief metric for measuring the success of a wrestling program. Go back and look at Raw vs. Nitro. Go back and look at the decline of Raw and SmackDown.





Ozell Gray said:


> You just keep lying and anyone reading can see that but carry on trolling.





Ozell Gray said:


> The posts about the wood talking about “the demos” when that post was talking about the viewership and he only bring up “the demos” when he was saying it’s worrying WWE aren’t getting a big enough audience out of that 18-49 demographic. The point of the post was him talking about Fox expectations of SmackDown getting 3 million viewers and anything under that they won’t accept.


COVETED DEMO FOR ADVERTISERS <---- 6 years ago @ 1:33 to 1:47 the "what demo matters most" is explained.

EVERYONE MUST WATCH <---- 1.5 years ago, the most detailed, comprehensive explanation of "how ratings work".

So argue all the points you haters want to, but these are both a thorough, easy-to-understand teaching/learning of the "why and how" of TV ratings. Especially the second video, specifically using WWE as the prime example.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Garty is All Elite said:


> COVETED DEMO FOR ADVERTISERS <---- 6 years ago @ 1:33 to 1:47 the "what demo matters most" is explained.
> 
> EVERYONE MUST WATCH <---- 1.5 years ago, the most detailed, comprehensive explanation of "how ratings work".
> 
> So argue all the points you haters want to, but these are both a thorough, easy-to-understand teaching/learning of the "why and how" of TV ratings. Especially the second video, specifically using WWE as the prime example.


Thats for other shows and sports not wrestling. Eric Bischoff already covered this on his podcast where he said himself even when Nitro was at its apex in ratings terms it still got lower ad rates than other shows on TNT that did way less in the "key demos." 

You fanboys don't seem to get that though and just love parroting Dave Meltzer's fantasy.


----------



## Garty

Ozell Gray said:


> Thats for other shows and sports not wrestling. Eric Bischoff already covered this on his podcast where he said himself even when Nitro was at its apex in ratings terms it still got lower ad rates than other shows on TNT that did way less in the "key demos."
> 
> You fanboys don't seem to get that though and just love parroting Dave Meltzer's fantasy.


You really are a fucking slow, daft and blind "Little Mark-o" aren't you?! It's obvious you DIDN'T watch the second video, otherwise, as I said, WWE is used as the example.

One more thing, try and come up with your own talking points because every rumored "X said AEW sucks"... and here's the proof (or as you like to call them, "facts") is truly  Also, try not to plagiarize your hater-buddies talking points verbatim either. You really are their hand-puppet. "Yeah, like he said, blah, blah, blah"  Get over, over, yourself.


----------



## One Shed

Garty is All Elite said:


> You really are a fucking slow, daft and blind "Little Mark-o" aren't you?! It's obvious you DIDN'T watch the second video, otherwise, as I said, WWE is used as the example.
> 
> One more thing, try and come up with your own talking points because every rumored "X said AEW sucks"... and here's the proof (or as you like to call them, "facts") is truly  Also, try not to plagiarize your hater-buddies talking points verbatim either. You really are their hand-puppet. "Yeah, like he said, blah, blah, blah"  Get over, over, yourself.


Oh look, back again and personally insulting people within eight seconds. Cannot argue a point? Personally attack the poster!


----------



## Klitschko

When Garty gets banned for insulting posters in a day or two, I can't wait for everyone to blame the haters for making him throw out insults like that lol.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Garty is All Elite said:


> You really are a fucking slow, daft and blind "Little Mark-o" aren't you?! It's obvious you DIDN'T watch the second video, otherwise, as I said, WWE is used as the example.
> 
> One more thing, try and come up with your own talking points because every rumored "X said AEW sucks"... and here's the proof (or as you like to call them, "facts") is truly  Also, try not to plagiarize your hater-buddies talking points verbatim either. You really are their hand-puppet. "Yeah, like he said, blah, blah, blah"  Get over, over, yourself.


You’re showing age with your personal attacks. Since you couldn’t argue my point you go straight to personal shots.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Garty is All Elite said:


> COVETED DEMO FOR ADVERTISERS <---- 6 years ago @ 1:33 to 1:47 the "what demo matters most" is explained.
> 
> EVERYONE MUST WATCH <---- 1.5 years ago, the most detailed, comprehensive explanation of "how ratings work".
> 
> So argue all the points you haters want to, but these are both a thorough, easy-to-understand teaching/learning of the "why and how" of TV ratings. Especially the second video, specifically using WWE as the prime example.


good vids Garty

especially the first one - completely independent


----------



## CM Buck

stop making me view this thread please. Just be well behaved nerds please


----------



## The Wood

So AEW got an NBA lead-in. That will probably go well for them at the start before they drop. 1 million down to about 750k I reckon. Probably about 875k, which will be spun as an AMAZING number. Expect articles about how they beat Raw somehow, and SmackDown through time, but nothing about how they dropped the ball when it comes to retaining them.


----------



## K4L318

The Wood said:


> So AEW got an NBA lead-in. That will probably go well for them at the start before they drop. 1 million down to about 750k I reckon. Probably about 875k, which will be spun as an AMAZING number. Expect articles about how they beat Raw somehow, and SmackDown through time, but nothing about how they dropped the ball when it comes to retaining them.


bruh that's like 3 threads. We get it, ya want AEW to fail cuz ya da Ruthless Aggression era fan dat miss the Rock doing pee pee jokes and 15 minute speeches dat this era of fans have no attention span for. 😂


----------



## The Wood

K4L318 said:


> bruh that's like 3 threads. We get it, ya want AEW to fail cuz ya da Ruthless Aggression era fan dat miss the Rock doing pee pee jokes and 15 minute speeches dat this era of fans have no attention span for. 😂


You’re hurt about something. My post was relevant, yours was some made-up weird personal assessment of me. Which isn’t even accurate, by the way.

Sort out your issues before you get banned.


----------



## K4L318

The Wood said:


> You’re hurt about something. My post was relevant, yours was some made-up weird personal assessment of me. Which isn’t even accurate, by the way.
> 
> Sort out your issues before you get banned.


Nah. I'm just saying, dats what ya doing.

why would I get banned? I aint disrespect ya one bit.


----------



## DammitChrist

Two Sheds said:


> Oh look, back again and personally insulting people within eight seconds. Cannot argue a point? Personally attack the poster!


To be fair, it's not like he's exactly wrong.



Klitschko said:


> When Garty gets banned for insulting posters in a day or two, I can't wait for everyone to blame the haters for making him throw out insults like that lol.


It's best if you critics just quit tempting him then with the cynicism so that you won't receive his bold replies in return :cudi


----------



## fabi1982

The Wood said:


> So AEW got an NBA lead-in. That will probably go well for them at the start before they drop. 1 million down to about 750k I reckon. Probably about 875k, which will be spun as an AMAZING number. Expect articles about how they beat Raw somehow, and SmackDown through time, but nothing about how they dropped the ball when it comes to retaining them.


Exactly how the ratings will go. It was the same last time they had NBA leadin, that they popped a massive first Q and then declined hard. Makes for a decent average which will paraded around, like you said


----------



## Not Lying

The Wood said:


> You’re the one lying, hombre. You’re just lying to yourself at this point. And I’m pretty sure everyone sees it.


The only people that see it is you and ..



Ozell Gray said:


> You just keep lying and anyone reading can see that but carry on trolling.


And this geek ^ who can't tell fact from fiction is your biggest cheerleader it says a lot 

I've tried simplifying it for your brains could understand, but alas, to no avail to low-life haters



Garty is All Elite said:


> You really are a fucking slow, daft and blind "Little Mark-o" aren't you?! It's obvious you DIDN'T watch the second video, otherwise, as I said, WWE is used as the example.
> 
> One more thing, try and come up with your own talking points because every rumored "X said AEW sucks"... and here's the proof (or as you like to call them, "facts") is truly  Also, try not to plagiarize your hater-buddies talking points verbatim either. You really are their hand-puppet. "Yeah, like he said, blah, blah, blah"  Get over, over, yourself.


It's a bit perplexing at this point. I'm sure his "friends" even laugh at his expense, he's like a little puppy that wants their approval, he's just too slow to understand anything. Just look at how he always deflects 

Look at them even ignoring your videos and @*LifeInCattleClass 's comment about context. *They can't admit they are ignorant and haters when called for saying stupid crap "demos were never discussed before AEW"


----------



## Ozell Gray

The Definition of Technician said:


> And this geek ^ who can't tell fact from fiction is your biggest cheerleader it says a lot
> 
> I've tried simplifying it for your brains could understand, but alas, to no avail to low-life haters
> 
> 
> 
> It's a bit perplexing at this point. I'm sure his "friends" even laugh at his expense, he's like a little puppy that wants their approval, he's just too slow to understand anything. Just look at how he always deflects
> 
> Look at them even ignoring your videos and @*LifeInCattleClass 's comment about context. *They can't admit they are ignorant and haters when called for saying stupid crap "demos were never discussed before AEW"


Talk about being a desperate troll 🤣. You’re the biggest geek on here and I love how you suck up to the other fanboys seeking approval from them because you’re a lost puppy. You can’t even debate the points without taking the comments out of context. Talk about irony.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Hang on a minute, last time I was in this thread the narrative was 'demo's didn't matter before AEW'

And now I find out that wasn't the case? 

Well I'll be blown


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pentagon Senior said:


> Hang on a minute, last time I was in this thread the narrative was 'demo's didn't matter before AEW'
> 
> And now I find out that wasn't the case?
> 
> Well I'll be blown


We never said demos don't matter. I hate this game where you guys twist things to suit your own "haters bad!" agenda.

Our argument has always been that from strictly an advertiser's perspective the demo doesn't matter FOR WRESTLING.

Why? Because wrestling fans don't have a whole lot of money and censuses from their own communities show that they have undesirable living conditions and pirate wrestling. People without enough money to buy a quarterly wrestling PPV aren't really worth marketing much to.

In terms of who is watching, insight for AEW, TNT being happy etc the demo very well might be important.

Stop fighting against fabricated arguments and stop personally attacking us for our views. We've got a grown man calling another grown man a geek unprovoked over ratings for a niche wrestling show. It's embarassing

Also Ozell isn't our puppet he's our mate.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I say 625k/.21 demo. The lead in probably gave them a 900k QH1 but they took a few minutes to figure out Luka was on another channel and left, so, they will have multiple sub 600k QHs.  

Last time they were late they drew 584/.24. It was later, and didn't have Inner Circle/Young Bucks/Omega/Sting on it, but it also wasn't going against Luka Doncic, the NBA's top 1st round playoff TV draw from the playoffs a few months ago. I am saying that as a die hard Mavs fan!!! Not to make excuses for AEW. Reality is reality.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Chip Chipperson said:


> We never said demos don't matter. I hate this game where you guys twist things to suit your own "haters bad!" agenda.
> 
> Our argument has always been that from strictly an advertiser's perspective the demo doesn't matter FOR WRESTLING.
> 
> Why? Because wrestling fans don't have a whole lot of money and censuses from their own communities show that they have undesirable living conditions and pirate wrestling. People without enough money to buy a quarterly wrestling PPV aren't really worth marketing much to.
> 
> In terms of who is watching, insight for AEW, TNT being happy etc the demo very well might be important.
> 
> Stop fighting against fabricated arguments and stop personally attacking us for our views. We've got a grown man calling another grown man a geek unprovoked over ratings for a niche wrestling show. It's embarassing
> 
> Also Ozell isn't our puppet he's our mate.


So why was Wood talking about demo in respect of WWE which is WRESTLING? Weird 🤔

@Chip Chipperson think you missed by response bro



TKO Wrestling said:


> I say 625k/.21 demo. The lead in probably gave them a 900k QH1 but they took a few minutes to figure out Luka was on another channel and left, so, they will have multiple sub 600k QHs.
> 
> Last time they were late they drew 584/.24. It was later, and didn't have Inner Circle/Young Bucks/Omega/Sting on it, but it also wasn't going against Luka Doncic, the NBA's top 1st round playoff TV draw from the playoffs a few months ago. I am saying that as a die hard Mavs fan!!! Not to make excuses for AEW. Reality is reality.


Low number as expected with timeslot


----------



## 3venflow

AEW: 775,000 / 0.32

NXT: 698,000 / 0.19


----------



## Mr316

3venflow said:


> AEW: 775,000
> 
> NXT: 698,000


Both numbers suck.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Mr316 said:


> Both numbers suck.


Yup although the Dub has invested a whole lot more money into their brand as opposed to NXT


----------



## Mr316

AEW had a lead in of 2 million viewers and only did 700k. 😂


----------



## NathanMayberry

Mr316 said:


> Both numbers suck.


One had a lead in of 2 million people and many of them were clowning on Jericho... So I don't think they're coming back..


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

5th position on a delay - 0.32 in the demo - still beat NXT in the overall

roll on next week


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1342214107324440577


----------



## Ozell Gray

Low numbers for both AEW's salary per year is 30 or $40 million a year and NXT's is barely like $3 million so it's embarrassing for AEW to get these types of numbers.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The 800k and 0.32 are very loyal. Predictable result 👍


----------



## 3venflow

Pentagon Senior said:


> The 800k and 0.32 are very loyal. Predictable result 👍


Yup. And the show finished after midnight. I thought NXT might win it this week given they went unopposed in prime timeslot, so a good outcome for AEW, especially given it was taped, didn't have a strong card, and was following up on a cold show last week.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

3venflow said:


> Yup. And the show finished after midnight. I thought NXT might win it this week given they went unopposed in prime timeslot, so a good outcome for AEW, especially given it was taped, didn't have a strong card, and was following up on a cold show last week.


NXT should win with AEW on a 2 hour delay (they got a good rating unopposed a few months back) - not sure what happened there but they'll be disappointed


----------



## RainmakerV2

Pentagon Senior said:


> NXT should win with AEW on a 2 hour delay (they got a good rating unopposed a few months back) - not sure what happened there but they'll be disappointed


The show had no Kross, Balor, Cole wrestled but it was unadvertised and he went against the now anti draw Dream. They didnt really try, which is their fault.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

RainmakerV2 said:


> The show had no Kross, Balor, Cole wrestled but it was unadvertised and he went against the now anti draw Dream. They didnt really try, which is their fault.


AEW has had two shows in a row without most of the top stars. These things happen


----------



## Oracle

For a throwaway show on at a random timeslot that is a insane number.

kind of stunned tbh


----------



## rexmundi

Shows weren't head-to-head so they won't be added to that ledger.

That being said, what an absolutely brutal unopposed rating for nxt. Down 133K in viewers and .03 in the demo from last year. They needed to put their best foot forward and they didn't. Clearly nxt is the little show that couldn't.

I expected worse for AEW given the show ending after midnight. Obviously they were buoyed by the NBA lead in and bled out a bit over the course of the two hours, similar to how nxt squanders their lead in each and every week.

Forgot to note that AEW was against an NBA show too for 94 minutes. Nice testament to their fans to turn out for the late night timeslot. I'm sure TNT was thrilled to have two shows in the top 5.

Ultimately neither of these shows mattered this week, as both were throwaways.


----------



## The XL 2

Fighting for table scraps. WWF Jakked/Metal did better than both of these shows combined on near midnight timeslot and on syndication.


----------



## Lenny Leonard

So they lost 1.3 million then?


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

That number is awful for both Jesus Christ


----------



## One Shed

Considering the time change I would call this a win. Quarter hours should be interesting. I would imagine a high Q1, then a large drop-off.


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> Hang on a minute, last time I was in this thread the narrative was 'demo's didn't matter before AEW'
> 
> And now I find out that wasn't the case?
> 
> Well I'll be blown


No, they really didn’t. And they weren’t the story. 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> 5th position on a delay - 0.32 in the demo - still beat NXT in the overall
> 
> roll on next week
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1342214107324440577


This is why a lot of people hate AEW. Gloating with numbers like this?

Pretty fucking awful numbers.


----------



## Lenny Leonard

The Wood said:


> No, they really didn’t. And they weren’t the story.
> 
> 
> 
> This is why a lot of people hate AEW. Gloating with numbers like this?
> 
> Pretty fucking awful numbers.


They are bragging about beating NXT that was in direct competition with the basketball game that they had as a leadin that lost over a million after roasting jerichunk


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> No, they really didn’t. And they weren’t the story.


They don't matter again, man we're going around in circles. Just make your mind up and stick with it please



Lenny Leonard said:


> They are bragging about beating NXT that was in direct competition with the basketball game that they had as a leadin that lost over a million after roasting jerichunk


You're right - beating NXT is nothing to brag about



Two Sheds said:


> Considering the time change I would call this a win. Quarter hours should be interesting. I would imagine a high Q1, then a large drop-off.


Yeh decent enough result considering, seems there is a loyal 800k/0.32 ish but anything above that need to be enticed to watch


----------



## tower_

Is their payroll really 30-40 million? Even if youre giving Jericho, Mox, JR etc 1m+ I dont see how that adds up


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> They don't matter again, man we're going around in circles. Just make your mind up and stick with it please
> 
> 
> 
> You're right - beating NXT is nothing to brag about
> 
> 
> 
> Yeh decent enough result considering, seems there is a loyal 800k/0.32 ish but anything above that need to be enticed to watch


No, you clearly don’t. Point to a time the demo has ever been of key importance outside AEW discussion?


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> No, you clearly don’t. Point to a time the demo has ever been of key importance outside AEW discussion?


That would involve searching for old posts which is frowned upon apparently. I'm sure everyone who's been involved in the discussion remembers though so no need


----------



## Klitschko

Not a bad rating. Literally just their average. Probably would have been around 800k if it was in their regular spot. The Sting debut fizzled out like an open soda left out in the sun.


----------



## llj

Klitschko said:


> Not a bad rating. Literally just their average. Probably would have been around 800k if it was in their regular spot. The Sting debut fizzled out like an open soda left out in the sun.


Nobody can permanently bump ratings anymore. These old guys WWE or AEW roll out are only good for a 1-2 week bump before the novelty wears off. We saw the same thing happen with Edge earlier this year. He didn't do jack.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

tower_ said:


> Is their payroll really 30-40 million? Even if youre giving Jericho, Mox, JR etc 1m+ I dont see how that adds up


Estimates but hard to argue:

"Jericho Money":

Chris Jericho - 3 million a year

Jon Moxley - 2 million a year

Sting - 2 million a year

That's 7 million already which easily topples NXT

Cody and Brandi - 3 million a year

The Bucks - 3 million a year

Kenny Omega - 1.5 million a year

Jim Ross - 1 million a year

Miro - 1 million a year

16.5 million

Then there's guys in the high hundreds of thousands

Brodie Lee - 750k

Matt Hardy - 500-600k

Pac - 750k

I'm sure Taz and Tony Schiavone would command at least 500k each also. Let's call it 19.5 million for those 13

You've then got 70-80 others who are all on 100k a year or more according to Cornette. Let's be generous and say the average for the 70 others is 250k

That's an additional 17.5 million dollars. 19.5 million plus 17.5 million equals 37 million dollars.


----------



## Klitschko

^ don't they pay most of their womens pretty poorly though? I dont think a lot of them are making 100k to be honest. Probably closer to 50. Just speculations on my part, but I could have sworn I saw somewhere once that they dont really get paid a ton. The women at least.


----------



## qntntgood

Two Sheds said:


> Considering the time change I would call this a win. Quarter hours should be interesting. I would imagine a high Q1, then a large drop-off.


At this point it's time to cut dead weight,and it's time for a hard reboot because number like this is terrible for a company going into it's third year.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Klitschko said:


> ^ don't they pay most of their womens pretty poorly though? I dont think a lot of them are making 100k to be honest. Probably closer to 50. Just speculations on my part, but I could have sworn I saw somewhere once that they dont really get paid a ton. The women at least.


I'm averaging so a guy like Arn Anderson probably makes 400-500k whilst Marko takes 75-100k

Corny says he knows for a fact very few in the Dub are making under 100k a year


----------



## Klitschko

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'm averaging so a guy like Arn Anderson probably makes 400-500k whilst Marko takes 75-100k
> 
> Corny says he knows for a fact very few in the Dub are making under 100k a year


Fuck, man. Legit question for ya. Any of your guys talk about trying to hit up AEW? Seems like AEW is signing anybody with any talent that isn't known and if true, 100k is a lot of money for most people.


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> That would involve searching for old posts which is frowned upon apparently. I'm sure everyone who's been involved in the discussion remembers though so no need


Sounds like you’re lying too.

Ratings can be bumped if a show is good.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Klitschko said:


> Fuck, man. Legit question for ya. Any of your guys talk about trying to hit up AEW? Seems like AEW is signing anybody with any talent that isn't known and if true, 100k is a lot of money for most people.


I actually have a mate who toured the States and met a few of the AEW guys just before they got signed.

He says Jungle Boy is super cool, quiet, humble and chill

He smoked up with Marko Stunt. Says he's hilarious and a blast to be around.

With it being All Friends Wrestling if he'd stuck around he might be there but nah for most guys WWE is the dream.


----------



## qntntgood

Klitschko said:


> Fuck, man. Legit question for ya. Any of your guys talk about trying to hit up AEW? Seems like AEW is signing anybody with any talent that isn't known and if true, 100k is a lot of money for most people.


Khan is a money mark,and these guys are going to take him for as much as can get.eventaully he's going to figure it out,but by then it may to late.


----------



## Tell it like it is

aew is not always perfect but they sure do have a loyal fanbase


----------



## Ozell Gray

Klitschko said:


> ^ don't they pay most of their womens pretty poorly though? I dont think a lot of them are making 100k to be honest. Probably closer to 50. Just speculations on my part, but I could have sworn I saw somewhere once that they dont really get paid a ton. The women at least.



Yep the women are getting paid around 40 or $50,000 a year. I know someone who’s close to people in AEW and they’ve told me the women are getting paid peanuts.

Now as for the men 

Chris Jericho $8 million a year (I had this confirmed to me personally so I know for a fact Jericho is getting paid this amount

Jon Moxley $6 million a year

Jim Ross $1 million a year

PAC $2 million a year

Sting 1 or $3 million a year

Cody Rhodes $3 million a year

The Young Bucks $2 million a year

Adam Page $2 million a year

Christopher Daniels $1.5 million a year

Brandi Rhodes $2 million a year

Mark Stunt $100,000 a year

That’s $30.5 million a year alone right there in terms of salaries for AEW and that’s not accounting for the $26 million in production costs also which means they’re spending over $50 million a year. Even Eric Bischoff confirmed they’re paying guys more than what WCW were paying guys.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

If Jericho on 8 million is ever confirmed to be true we need to revisit my "Is Tony Khan the worst promoter ever" thread


----------



## One Shed

Chip Chipperson said:


> If Jericho on 8 million is ever confirmed to be true we need to revisit my "Is Tony Khan the worst promoter ever" thread


Jericho was worth it up until 2/29/20. After that he was worth about the all you can eat price at the Golden Corral he has been eating at. I am thinking that price is about $12.99.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

qntntgood said:


> At this point it's time to cut dead weight,and it's time for a hard reboot because number like this is terrible for a company going into it's third year.


They just had their one year anniversary in October so how are they going into their third year?


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Average Number. Cool.


----------



## qntntgood

ripcitydisciple said:


> They just had their one year anniversary in October so how are they going into their third year?


Seem that way,point is they are not growing instead they have become joke.


----------



## The Wood

Chip Chipperson said:


> If Jericho on 8 million is ever confirmed to be true we need to revisit my "Is Tony Khan the worst promoter ever" thread


I don’t think I believe it, but I would believe $4 million. Randy Orton was reportedly on $2.5 million with the WWE before he got an AEW that helped up that. $3 million from AEW? Then Vince goes up to $3.5 million. Orton goes back and asks for more. Dave Meltzer calls it Chris Jericho money.



ripcitydisciple said:


> They just had their one year anniversary in October so how are they going into their third year?


They started in January 2019.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Looks like AEW owes people money and didn't pay them all the money they were promised.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1342307999092781057


----------



## The Wood

Ozell Gray said:


> Looks like AEW owes people money and didn't pay them all the money they were promised.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1342307999092781057


Major TNA vibes.


----------



## La Parka

It took TNA years before people started publicly shaming them for not paying for their services.

Not a great look for AEW


----------



## Ozell Gray

The Wood said:


> I don’t think I believe it, but I would believe $4 million. Randy Orton was reportedly on $2.5 million with the WWE before he got an AEW that helped up that. $3 million from AEW? Then Vince goes up to $3.5 million. Orton goes back and asks for more. Dave Meltzer calls it Chris Jericho money.


It's certainly true Chris Jericho's making $8 million. He said last year himself he's making Brock Lesnar type of money and Brick Lesnar was making $10 million, plus I know someone personally who's close to AEW backstage personnel who told me Chris Jericho is on $8 million a year deal.


----------



## Ozell Gray

The Wood said:


> Major TNA vibes.


Yep and it's been almost 2 years into AEW's existence and they're already having pay issues. It took TNA 11 years before people started talking about it with them. Not a good look for AEW.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Ozell Gray said:


> Looks like AEW owes people money and didn't pay them all the money they were promised.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1342307999092781057


I'm more surprised at the Indy esque pay rate. 80 bucks for TV? Even I pay a few of my guys more...


----------



## The Wood

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'm more surprised at the Indy esque pay rate. 80 bucks for TV? Even I pay a few of my guys more...


I took it to mean they were paid, but the pay was $80 short. Knowing TK they we’re probably bought them new cars and paid $15k for the night.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'm more surprised at the Indy esque pay rate. 80 bucks for TV? Even I pay a few of my guys more...


Yeah it's a bad look for them to pay them but to leave out the rest of the $80 they're owed.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Wood said:


> I took it to mean they were paid, but the pay was $80 short. Knowing TK they we’re probably bought them new cars and paid $15k for the night.


I think that's even worse but we're going off topic. Perhaps a thread could be made? Tony being short 160 bucks seems very odd


----------



## 10gizzle

Chip Chipperson said:


> I think that's even worse but we're going off topic. Perhaps a thread could be made? Tony being short 160 bucks seems very odd


How about that skeptics corner...


----------



## Pentagon Senior

So TK throws 8 mil at Jericho but underpays someone else 80 bucks?

Yeh, I'm guna need these fact checked 💯


----------



## 10gizzle

Pentagon Senior said:


> So TK throws 8 mil at Jericho but underpays someone else 80 bucks?
> 
> Yeh, I'm guna need these fact checked 💯


Even still, outliers happen. Anybody jumping on it is just showing their raison d'être.

My company shorted me 160 bucks that took me 1.5 months to get back. A global, multi billion dollar company.

Shit happens.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

10gizzle said:


> Even still, outliers happen. Anybody jumping on it is just showing their raison d'être.
> 
> My company shorted me 160 bucks that took me 1.5 months to get back. A global, multi billion dollar company.
> 
> Shit happens.


Oh yeh I appreciate that, the raison d'etre of some here is clear. Even more reason for fact checking 

Shit does happen though and I'm sure TK isn't short 80 bucks


----------



## The Wood

10gizzle said:


> Even still, outliers happen. Anybody jumping on it is just showing their raison d'être.
> 
> My company shorted me 160 bucks that took me 1.5 months to get back. A global, multi billion dollar company.
> 
> Shit happens.


If there’s legitimacy to it, my best guess is that it would have been a communication error or mismanagement somewhere. #SloppyShop


----------



## 10gizzle

The Wood said:


> If there’s legitimacy to it, my best guess is that it would have been a communication error or mismanagement somewhere. #SloppyShop


At least it seems we can agree, TNA vibes was a little bit of a stretch. Lol.


----------



## The Wood

10gizzle said:


> At least it seems we can agree, TNA vibes was a little bit of a stretch. Lol.


TNA underpaid its talent too. It’s just another on the list of things.


----------



## 10gizzle

The Wood said:


> TNA underpaid its talent too. It’s just another on the list of things.


Has anyone complained about being underpaid? Seems like AEW overpays if anything.

Aren't these guys freelancers anyways? Don't they accept terms prior to taking the job?


----------



## The Wood

10gizzle said:


> Has anyone complained about being underpaid? Seems like AEW overpays if anything.
> 
> Aren't these guys freelancers anyways? Don't they accept terms prior to taking the job?


I imagine those terms were for $80 more.


----------



## 10gizzle

The Wood said:


> I imagine those terms were for $80 more.


#makewrestlingbetter


----------



## VIP86

a little more than 1 million people watched (The Real Housewives of Orange fucking County)
more than 1.3 million watch HOUSE HUNTERS which aired at the same time as AEW

i have no idea why people are still interested in this fake ratings war between AEW and NXT
this fake war is only inside the heads of Dave Meltzer & Bryan Alvarez and AEW management
and the journalists and youtube podcasters who are desperate for any content and clicks

wrestling is dying, soon RAW and Smackdown will go down to AEW and NXT levels
also there is no way in hell WWE will get the same TV deal they have now


----------



## Chip Chipperson

VIP86 said:


> a little more than 1 million people watched (The Real Housewives of Orange fucking County)
> more than 1.3 million watch HOUSE HUNTERS which aired at the same time as AEW
> 
> i have no idea why people are still interested in this fake ratings war between AEW and NXT
> this fake war is only inside the heads of Dave Meltzer & Bryan Alvarez and AEW management
> and the journalists and youtube podcasters who are desperate for any content and clicks
> 
> wrestling is dying, soon RAW and Smackdown will go down to AEW and NXT levels
> also there is no way in hell WWE will get the same TV deal they have now


I'd trust WWE to turn it around before putting any trust in AEW to make it


----------



## The Wood

VIP86 said:


> a little more than 1 million people watched (The Real Housewives of Orange fucking County)
> more than 1.3 million watch HOUSE HUNTERS which aired at the same time as AEW
> 
> i have no idea why people are still interested in this fake ratings war between AEW and NXT
> this fake war is only inside the heads of Dave Meltzer & Bryan Alvarez and AEW management
> and the journalists and youtube podcasters who are desperate for any content and clicks
> 
> wrestling is dying, soon RAW and Smackdown will go down to AEW and NXT levels
> also there is no way in hell WWE will get the same TV deal they have now


I agree with everything except the WWE point. I don’t think their ratings are going to keep going down like people think. Well, Raw is a hard turnaround. But SmackDown is doing fine, all things considered.

WWE will work out a way to market sharper content to Peacock, Disney+, ESPN+, etc. You can already see it in their international deals.

And no, I am not a WWE stan. You don’t have to _like_ WWE to see the moves they can make. 



Chip Chipperson said:


> I'd trust WWE to turn it around before putting any trust in AEW to make it


I’m at this point also. They do things in a cheesy way and their presentation could improve, as could their creative ideas. But they are capable of that change, no matter what people say. They have done it before.

With them now having more resources than ever, they can lock talent into lucrative long-term deals that allow them to build around said talent. They _tried_ with Drew McIntyre. The timing of the pandemic aside, he’s obviously a bigger name than Jon Moxley right now. That’s just the mathematics of it.

Next year, it will probably be Sasha Banks, the return of Becky Lynch and maybe even Rhea Ripley and, as a wild card, Toni Storm for the women.

The men? Look — that’s anybody’s guess. They obviously like Keith Lee and Matt Riddle. We’ll see. But they can do it and you’ve still got Roman Reigns, Drew McIntyre, Seth Rollins, Bray Wyatt and Randy Orton as top talent between the shows. No matter what you think of them, plugged in, they are stars.

They can invest in these guys. If the WWE gets good, and that’s a big if, then they could start cooking relatively easily.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

qntntgood said:


> Seem that way,point is they are not growing instead they have become joke.


You should like do research before you say dumb shit. They are up 5 weeks in a row compared to their numbers a year ago. +18% viewership, +28% demo last week. No other company is doing this...


----------



## The Wood

TKO Wrestling said:


> You should like do research before you say dumb shit. They are up 5 weeks in a row compared to their numbers a year ago. +18% viewership, +28% demo last week. No other company is doing this...


No other company is in the position to.


----------



## qntntgood

TKO Wrestling said:


> You should like do research before you say dumb shit. They are up 5 weeks in a row compared to their numbers a year ago. +18% viewership, +28% demo last week. No other company is doing this...


 How is it being up,when there is no growth and it's the same audience every week that tunes.both nxt and aew share that same audience,so were is the increase.and that the same shit they every week,when the number are the same.


----------



## rbl85

qntntgood said:


> How is it being up,when there is no growth and it's the same audience every week that tunes.both nxt and aew share that same audience,so were is the increase.and that the same shit they every week,when the number are the same.


Go look the numbers of the last 2-3 shows of 2019


----------



## qntntgood

rbl85 said:


> Go look the numbers of the last 2-3 shows of 2019


Aew debut in October of with 1.4 millions and began to lose that audience then,and have stayed in 900 thousand to 600 thousand range ever since.so how is that growth,when they can hardly move the number pass a million.


----------



## Klitschko

qntntgood said:


> Aew debut in October of with 1.4 millions and began to lose that audience then,and have stayed in 900 thousand to 600 thousand range ever since.so how is that growth,when they can hardly move the number pass a million.


I think he means their overall for the year increased.


----------



## rbl85

December 18 of 2019 
AEW : 683K

December 23 of 2020
AEW : 775K with a show starting at more than 10pm


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> December 18 of 2019
> AEW : 683K
> 
> December 23 of 2020
> AEW : 775K with a show starting at more than 10pm


Is they got 92k viewers in a year the hill people want to die on. Especially if they don't want people pointing out the 1.2 million from the second show it the fact they've dropped about 300k the last few weeks?


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> Is they got 92k viewers in a year the hill people want to die on. Especially if they don't want people pointing out the 1.2 million from the second show it the fact they've dropped about 300k the last few weeks?


92k with a show starting after 10pm.

If the 2019 show had started after 10pm, AEW wouldn't have even charted in the top 50.


----------



## Chan Hung

rbl85 said:


> December 18 of 2019
> AEW : 683K
> 
> December 23 of 2020
> AEW : 775K with a show starting at more than 10pm


Damn NXT couldnt do better than 700,000 unopposed? Ouch.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Chan Hung said:


> Damn NXT couldnt do better than 700,000 unopposed? Ouch.


They went up against the NBA...AEW's lead in?


----------



## qntntgood

rbl85 said:


> December 18 of 2019
> AEW : 683K
> 
> December 23 of 2020
> AEW : 775K with a show starting at more than 10pm


This is joke right,considering they opened with a lot and proceeded to drop as we have Twitter as a reference for that drop.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Imagine bragging about just under 100k's worth of "growth" in a year. I guess the loyalists really will grab onto anything but I think most were hoping AEW to be well above 1.5 million by this point...


----------



## DammitChrist

AEW is still doing well during a pandemic, and they’re holding up well with the viewership atm; but hey, I suppose that it’s more appropriate if the fans just listened to the critics (really shouldn’t happen at all btw) by low-key rooting for the company to go bankrupt instead.


----------



## rbl85

qntntgood said:


> This is joke right,considering they opened with a lot and proceeded to drop as* we have Twitter as a reference for that drop.*


Twitter means shit dude, we already have a lot of exemple in the past showing that tweets does not equal viewers.


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> Imagine bragging about just under 100k's worth of "growth" in a year. I guess the loyalists really will grab onto anything but I think most were hoping AEW to be well above 1.5 million by this point...


The only thing the loyalists care about is AEW staying on the air. A million would be awesome every week but ask any loyalist and I’m sure they will tell you they don’t care that much, especially when they are opposed by NXT most weeks and we can’t see the true numbers anyway. Given that TNT is OK with 700K means that loyalists are happy and that all this ratings talk is trivial. Especially seeing that it’s not an indicator of the entire audience meaning that live gates and PPV buy rates will remain steady.


----------



## The Wood

qntntgood said:


> Aew debut in October of with 1.4 millions and began to lose that audience then,and have stayed in 900 thousand to 600 thousand range ever since.so how is that growth,when they can hardly move the number pass a million.


The trick is to take a heavily promoted portion of the year from this year and compare it to the dead zone of Christmas last year.

Remember when Sting came in last year and they did the massive free TV special and moved their World Title around?

Hot-shot and then use the couple of thousand of fans you get along with sevidence of growth.



DammitChrist said:


> AEW is still doing well during a pandemic, and they’re holding up well with the viewership atm; but hey, I suppose that it’s more appropriate if the fans just listened to the critics (really shouldn’t happen at all btw) by low-key rooting for the company to go bankrupt instead.


iyo

Well is definitely relative. And it appears so is who wants wrestling in the gutter.



rbl85 said:


> Twitter means shit dude, we already have a lot of exemple in the past showing that tweets does not equal viewers.


Nielsen makes a bigger deal out of Twitter than they do the 18-49 demo.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Twitter is such a big deal that many people get employed in media related fields based on just how big their social media following is.

"Twitter means shit" is so far off base that I feel bad for chuckling.


----------



## The Wood

Here is the official Nielsen site. They talk about Top 10’s in there. Notice what they focus on? Total viewership. Then it’s about black demos, Hispanic demos and same-sex spousal demos.

I can’t find mention of the 18-49 demo in there, although I haven’t gone through every article. But that’s not what they’re interested in measuring anymore. I almost wish they would stop so this archaic nonsense can stop.


----------



## Not Lying

Ozell Gray said:


> Talk about being a desperate troll 🤣. You’re the biggest geek on here and I love how you suck up to the other fanboys seeking approval from them because you’re a lost puppy. You can’t even debate the points without taking the comments out of context. Talk about irony.


And you just repeat everything I said bout you.  
Parrot. Go back to posting tweets as facts


----------



## Ozell Gray

The Definition of Technician said:


> And you just repeat everything I said bout you.
> Parrot. Go back to posting tweets as facts


Ok and go back to your kindergarten "insults" 😆.


----------



## K4L318

Chip Chipperson said:


> They went up against the NBA...AEW's lead in?


nah ya using dat? 

da better game was Book and Luka. AEW went on like 10 at night, peeps got to work and put dem kids to bed. For dem to hit dat number is good. Not great, good.


----------



## K4L318

The Wood said:


> I agree with everything except the WWE point. I don’t think their ratings are going to keep going down like people think. Well, Raw is a hard turnaround. But SmackDown is doing fine, all things considered.
> 
> WWE will work out a way to market sharper content to Peacock, Disney+, ESPN+, etc. You can already see it in their international deals.
> 
> And no, I am not a WWE stan. You don’t have to _like_ WWE to see the moves they can make.
> 
> 
> 
> I’m at this point also. They do things in a cheesy way and their presentation could improve, as could their creative ideas. But they are capable of that change, no matter what people say. They have done it before.
> 
> With them now having more resources than ever, they can lock talent into lucrative long-term deals that allow them to build around said talent. They _tried_ with Drew McIntyre. The timing of the pandemic aside, he’s obviously a bigger name than Jon Moxley right now. That’s just the mathematics of it.
> 
> Next year, it will probably be Sasha Banks, the return of Becky Lynch and maybe even Rhea Ripley and, as a wild card, Toni Storm for the women.
> 
> The men? Look — that’s anybody’s guess. They obviously like Keith Lee and Matt Riddle. We’ll see. But they can do it and you’ve still got Roman Reigns, Drew McIntyre, Seth Rollins, Bray Wyatt and Randy Orton as top talent between the shows. No matter what you think of them, plugged in, they are stars.
> 
> They can invest in these guys. If the WWE gets good, and that’s a big if, then they could start cooking relatively easily.


WWE gon die too.

If ya think Bruce saving it good luck.

how ya see a company wit over 70 Million subscribers on youtube channels and can barely get stars over dat milli just on clickin a thumbnail? And think yo dem kats gon be good.

ya first mistake is ya think Drew a star. Ya second is thinking dem kats have a chick who can even get as popular as a Mickie James in her prime.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

K4L318 said:


> nah ya using dat?
> 
> da better game was Book and Luka. AEW went on like 10 at night, peeps got to work and put dem kids to bed. For dem to hit dat number is good. Not great, good.


Yeah I'm using that. AEW fans used "It was the night before Thanksgiving" to excuse a bad Thanksgiving rating so I think NXT going up against NBA is perfectly valid.


----------



## K4L318

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah I'm using that. AEW fans used "It was the night before Thanksgiving" to excuse a bad Thanksgiving rating so I think NXT going up against NBA is perfectly valid.


bruh my cuzzo watches wrestling. He watches AEW, not even joking. Ya know how old he is? 19, ya know why he aint see it? cuz he went to visit his moms in Chicago for Thanksgiving who he aint seen since January. 

da excuse here dat ya talking bout is NXT at 8 wit no other wrestling show to take audience away had a low rating cuz NBA was on. Yet AEW at tougher hour wit bigger stars cuz Luka >>>>>>>>> Giannis and Booker is like new Harden to bballers, AEW had better rating at hour peeps had bigger star and others usually fucking go to sleep or play PS5 or stream anime. 

homie dem kats didnt want to watch NXT this week.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

K4L318 said:


> bruh my cuzzo watches wrestling. He watches AEW, not even joking. Ya know how old he is? 19, ya know why he aint see it? cuz he went to visit his moms in Chicago for Thanksgiving who he aint seen since January.
> 
> da excuse here dat ya talking bout is NXT at 8 wit no other wrestling show to take audience away had a low rating cuz NBA was on. Yet AEW at tougher hour wit bigger stars cuz Luka >>>>>>>>> Giannis and Booker is like new Harden to bballers, AEW had better rating at hour peeps had bigger star and others usually fucking go to sleep or play PS5 or stream anime.
> 
> homie dem kats didnt want to watch NXT this week.
> View attachment 95227


No denying it's a bad result for NXT this week. Chip is just making excuses as he's upset they went unopposed at the ususal time and still flopped


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pentagon Senior said:


> No denying it's a bad result for NXT this week. Chip is just making excuses as he's upset they went unopposed at the ususal time and still flopped


Don't tell me what I am or am not upset about. I don't care how NXT does, I don't watch their show either.

If NXT against NBA doesn't count then anything against AEW doesn't count from this day on.


----------



## Cult03

K4L318 said:


> WWE gon die too.
> 
> If ya think Bruce saving it good luck.
> 
> how ya see a company wit over 70 Million subscribers on youtube channels and can barely get stars over dat milli just on clickin a thumbnail? And think yo dem kats gon be good.
> 
> ya first mistake is ya think Drew a star. Ya second is thinking dem kats have a chick who can even get as popular as a Mickie James in her prime.


That's because Youtube is available worldwide and these ratings only include American viewers. Ratings do not matter in 2020.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Don't tell me what I am or am not upset about. I don't care how NXT does, I don't watch their show either.
> 
> If NXT against NBA doesn't count then anything against AEW doesn't count from this day on.


Sound logic, but NBA basketball is a weekly occurrence. Only time I find the excuses valid is when there is breaking news, playoff action, etc. 

Otherwise, you just getting ya teeth kicked in on the regular, which is what NXT does.


----------



## K4L318

Cult03 said:


> That's because Youtube is available worldwide and these ratings only include American viewers. Ratings do not matter in 2020.


nah ya dont say


----------



## Mr316

I think it’s hilarious that the AEW marks are happy with these numbers. Back to reality now, Khan has probably spent around 100 million $ for a show that draws 700k. Remember that AEW marks. If I spent that much money I would hope that my show would be watched by 1 million viewers every week at the very least.


----------



## K4L318

Mr316 said:


> I think it’s hilarious that the *AEW marks *are happy with these numbers. Back to reality now, Khan has probably spent around 100 million $ for a show that draws 700k. Remember that AEW marks. If I spent that much money I would hope that my show would be watched by 1 million viewers every week at the very least.


bruh ya SN is Mr316, they drew 700K at 10PM time where peeps go to bed or stream video games.


----------



## Ozell Gray

SmackDown just drew 3.336 million viewers (these are overnight numbers but we’ll see if they hold up when the actual numbers come out on Monday) on Christmas so no one can use that “tv dying” excuse anymore or “it’s the holidays.” Dynamite just can’t keep viewers interested.


----------



## K4L318

Ozell Gray said:


> SmackDown just drew 3.336 million viewers (these are overnight numbers but we’ll see if they hold up when the actual numbers come out on Monday) on Christmas so no one can use that “tv dying” excuse anymore or “it’s the holidays.” Dynamite just can’t keep viewers interested.


ya know they aint holding. 

Nah, Dynamite dont got da best sport on television as they lead in. Good try homie.


----------



## Ozell Gray

K4L318 said:


> ya know they aint holding.
> 
> Nah, Dynamite dont got da best sport on television as they lead in. Good try homie.


It had the NBA which drew over 3 million viewers but nice try. Dynamite can’t hold viewers’ interest, hence why it gets the same 800,000 viewers most weeks.


----------



## K4L318

Ozell Gray said:


> It had the NBA which drew over 3 million viewers but nice try. Dynamite can’t hold viewers’ interest, hence why it gets the same 800,000 viewers most weeks.


NBA didnt draw that stop lying


----------



## Ozell Gray

K4L318 said:


> NBA didnt draw that stop lying
> 
> View attachment 95231


It drew 2 million viewers and Dynamite dropped all of them and got 775,000 viewers.


----------



## K4L318

Ozell Gray said:


> It drew 2 million viewers and Dynamite dropped all of them and got 775,000 viewers.


at 10PM


----------



## RapShepard

The bigger talking point is that WWE got a lead in and didn't get absolutely clowned on Twitter to the point it trended by the fans who stuck over for a bit. For people that say AEW is the less embarrassing more adult feeling wrestling show that's a blow. Both Dynamite and SmackDown had great lead ins, SmackDown just seemed to benefit more relatively speaking.


----------



## Ozell Gray

K4L318 said:


> at 10PM


Doesn’t matter. It lost all of the NBA viewers and went down to 775,000.


----------



## Ozell Gray

RapShepard said:


> The bigger talking point is that WWE got a lead in and didn't get absolutely clowned on Twitter to the point it trended by the fans who stuck over for a bit. For people that say AEW is the less embarrassing more adult feeling wrestling show that's a blow. Both Dynamite and SmackDown had great lead ins, SmackDown just seemed to benefit more relatively speaking.


Because the marks take narratives that they like and tries to apply to the general population and fails miserably every time they do so. Saying Dynamite is “less embarrassing “ than Raw and SmackDown is laughable to the masses who don’t watch wrestling at all.


----------



## RapShepard

Ozell Gray said:


> Because the marks take narratives that they like and tries to apply to the general population and fails miserably every time they do so. Saying Dynamite is “less embarrassing “ than Raw and SmackDown is laughable to the masses who don’t watch wrestling at all.


Minus the marks ( I don't like to insult lol) you're not wrong. A lot of people get caught up in our hardcore bubble and lose sight of what the general population would care about. People get caught up on what's popular in our bubble that they forget the real reality is that nothing anybody in the wrestling business is doing interests the general population right now. So while AEW is the current golden child (and I typically enjoy their shows) they still haven't found a formula that has an appeal outside of fans in the bubble.


----------



## Mr316

AEW WAS suppose to be the “new and badass” wrestling show. Not badass at all when you have people like Marko Stunt, Dark Order, Luchasaurus, Janela, Kip Sabian.


----------



## K4L318

Ozell Gray said:


> Doesn’t matter. It lost all of the NBA viewers and went down to 775,000.


cuz peeps go to sleep at dat time, some of us work bruh. 😂


----------



## Chip Chipperson

K4L318 said:


> cuz peeps go to sleep at dat time, some of us work bruh. 😂


Two things here.

1. You're basically admitting the majority of the AEW core audience do not work or do not have anything going on which kind of sells my demo argument even more. They didn't suffer that major of a drop despite being heavily delayed.

2. Many of those casuals might not work or might have had the following day off also. They weren't interested. Why are people struggling to just accept this? They were not interested, majority probably tuned out, minority poked fun on social media.


----------



## K4L318

Chip Chipperson said:


> Two things here.
> 
> 1. You're basically admitting the majority of the AEW core audience do not work or do not have anything going on which kind of sells my demo even more. They didn't suffer that major of a drop despite being heavily delayed.
> 
> 2. Many of those casuals might not work or might have had the following day off also. They weren't interested. Why are people struggling to just accept this? They were not interested, majority probably tuned out, minority poked fun on social media.


1. the majority AEW audience work or is teen. How ya make up for dem at 10PM callin it a night?

2. nah, ya got 2M watching from 7 to 10 and clocked out. Not hard to see dat homie.


no offense but bruh ya on this board 24/7, how ya speaking for casual? 

what life ya relate to in casual or even The Wood?


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> No denying it's a bad result for NXT this week. Chip is just making excuses as he's upset they went unopposed at the ususal time and still flopped


You’re crossing a line. NXT had bigger competition than AEW that week. You’re pissing all over AEW’s future excuses. 



RapShepard said:


> The bigger talking point is that WWE got a lead in and didn't get absolutely clowned on Twitter to the point it trended by the fans who stuck over for a bit. For people that say AEW is the less embarrassing more adult feeling wrestling show that's a blow. Both Dynamite and SmackDown had great lead ins, SmackDown just seemed to benefit more relatively speaking.


Holy shit at the SmackDown rating. They fucking OWNED AEW. More viewers on Christmas than AEW got in December. You won’t hear Meltzer reporting that. 



RapShepard said:


> Minus the marks ( I don't like to insult lol) you're not wrong. A lot of people get caught up in our hardcore bubble and lose sight of what the general population would care about. People get caught up on what's popular in our bubble that they forget the real reality is that nothing anybody in the wrestling business is doing interests the general population right now. So while AEW is the current golden child (and I typically enjoy their shows) they still haven't found a formula that has an appeal outside of fans in the bubble.


Marks isn’t really an insult. Dave tries to spin it as one.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

K4L318 said:


> 1. the majority AEW audience work or is teen. How ya make up for dem at 10PM callin it a night?
> 
> 2. nah, ya got 2M watching from 7 to 10 and clocked out. Not hard to see dat homie.
> 
> 
> no offense but bruh ya on this board 24/7, how ya speaking for casual?
> 
> what life ya relate to in casual or even The Wood?


1. The majority of the AEW audience make between 0 - 47,000 a year with 47% either living at home with their family/parents or in shared accommodation. 85% are either low income earners or average in terms of wage. The largest is 15,000 USD a year or less with a whopping 42.4% not even hitting 15k.

2. Again, we have evidence that thousands of NBA fans gave AEW a shot and said "No, I'm not interested in this WWE lite show".

As for how do I know what the casual wants, that's simple. I come across casual wrestling fans all the time as a professional wrestling promoter who MARKETS to them. My entire schtick is you get a cheap night out, the kids get to see some local live wrestling and there might be a thing or two in there for mum and dad also.

I also come across a lot of people who ask me what I do as a hobby and I say "Promote wrestling shows" as one of them and they want to chat wrestling. 90% of the time the response is "Oh I used to like that but it all got too silly" or some other general reason as to why they stopped.

I have insight into what the casual attendee wants and it's not what AEW is dishing up let me tell you that.


----------



## K4L318

The Wood said:


> You’re crossing a line. NXT had bigger competition than AEW that week. You’re pissing all over AEW’s future wxcuses


nah they aint.




The Wood said:


> Holy shit at the SmackDown rating. They fucking OWNED AEW. More viewers on Christmas than AEW got in December. You won’t hear Meltzer reporting thst


they did what any show leading wit a 20M audience would do a massively lost it.





The Wood said:


> Marks isn’t really an insult. Dave tries to spin it as one.


it is


----------



## Prosper

You people do realize that the SD number will drop back down to 1.9 - 2.0 next week right? I don't understand why supposed "AEW fans" are in here celebrating SD when the SD ratings thread is dead AF.

That anomaly is equivalent to Dynamite putting on the same shows consistently and all of a sudden pulling a 3.2 overall. There were no dramatic changes on SD to warrant people showing such huge interest. It's the same show with the same talent. It was an NFL lead-in equaling 35 million people which then resulted in a sharp drop after the first 30 minutes. The NBA gets nowhere near that many viewers.

Great for SD this week, for the sake of wrestling in general I am happy for them but let's be real. Those NFL fans were no more interested than the NBA fans.


----------



## The Wood

You’re just wrong, mate. I don’t know any other way to tell ya. You can say “It ain’t” all you want, but you’ve got no gas to start that fire.


----------



## K4L318

Chip Chipperson said:


> 1. The majority of the AEW audience make between 0 - 47,000 a year with 47% either living at home with their family/parents or in shared accommodation. 85% are either low income earners or average in terms of wage.
> 
> 2. Again, we have evidence that thousands of NBA fans gave AEW a shot and said "No, I'm not interested in this WWE lite show".
> 
> As for how do I know what the casual wants, that's simple. I come across casual wrestling fans all the time as a professional wrestling promoter who MARKETS to them. My entire schtick is you get a cheap night out, the kids get to see some local live wrestling and there might be a thing or two in there for mum and dad also.
> 
> I also come across a lot of people who ask me what I do as a hobby and I say "Promote wrestling shows" as one of them and they want to chat wrestling. 90% of the time the response is "Oh I used to like that but it all got too silly" or some other general reason as to why they stopped.
> 
> I have insight into what the casual attendee wants and it's not what AEW is dishing up let me tell you that.


1. dat aint true, provide evidence. 

2. Saturday Night Dynamite audience consumed it's lead in, it was a decent hour. Wednesday night was an hour Americans usually prepare for sleep or other things but ya rewriting da rules to suit ya. 

Nah ya dont. Ya wouldnt be on this board if ya did. 

Nah ya dont have any insight, ya play it like ya do but ya got hard headed opinion.


----------



## K4L318

prosperwithdeen said:


> You people do realize that the SD number will drop back down to 1.9 - 2.0 next week right? I don't understand why supposed "AEW fans" are in here celebrating SD when the SD ratings thread is dead AF.
> 
> That anomaly is equivalent to Dynamite putting on the same shows consistently and all of a sudden pulling a 3.2 overall. There were no dramatic changes on SD to warrant people showing such huge interest. It's the same show with the same talent. It was an NFL lead-in equaling 35 million people which then resulted in a sharp drop after the first 30 minutes. The NBA gets nowhere near that many viewers.
> 
> Great for SD this week, for the sake of wrestling in general I am happy for them but let's be real.


Wood and Chipper just dont like AEW and its dat easy. But dem kats do it 24/7 and act like some fact backs what they say and it aint happening.


----------



## The Wood

prosperwithdeen said:


> You people do realize that the SD number will drop back down to 1.9 - 2.0 next week right? I don't understand why supposed "AEW fans" are in here celebrating SD when the SD ratings thread is dead AF.
> 
> That anomaly is equivalent to Dynamite putting on the same shows consistently and all of a sudden pulling a 3.2 overall. There were no dramatic changes on SD to warrant people showing such huge interest. It was an NFL lead-in that resulted in a sharp drop after the first 30 minutes.
> 
> Great for SD this week, for the sake of wrestling in general I am happy for them but let's be real.


Card was hot-fire. You don’t need dramatic changes sometimes. You just need to put in a show people want to see.

The SD thread being dead AF is good evidence that wrestling works better when the internet folk aren’t calling the shots. When something is working, people sometimes just shut up and enjoy.

People are excited because it’a a MASSIVE rating for wrestling. It can be done.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

K4L318 said:


> 1. dat aint true, provide evidence.
> 
> 2. Saturday Night Dynamite audience consumed it's lead in, it was a decent hour. Wednesday night was an hour Americans usually prepare for sleep or other things but ya rewriting da rules to suit ya.
> 
> Nah ya dont. Ya wouldnt be on this board if ya did.
> 
> Nah ya dont have any insight, ya play it like ya do but ya got hard headed opinion.


1. Reddit Census, a census with statistics from wrestling fans on the largest wrestling forum on the planet. Here's a link:


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/bmsrui

2. I have no idea what you're talking about here.

I'm on this board because I love chatting wrestling and it gives insight into what people want from wrestling. I think at this point a half dozen people have confirmed that I legit do own my indy.

I have insight bro, not into any Americans but I get a ton of casual wrestling fans that see a poster in a bakery or in a venue foyer and turn up. I talk to them, my Mrs who sells tickets talk to them and I'm always curious to know what they're into, why they're coming, what they thought etc. As a matter of fact at one point we were having them fill out forms voluntarily letting us know what they like, what they dislike etc. If I can find some of those sheets I may share them on the forum because it was pretty surprising even for me.


----------



## K4L318

The Wood said:


> Card was hot-fire. You don’t need dramatic changes sometimes. You just need to put in a show people want to see.
> 
> The SD thread being dead AF is good evidence that wrestling works better when the internet folk aren’t calling the shots. When something is working, people sometimes just shut up and enjoy.
> 
> People are excited because it’a a MASSIVE rating for wrestling. It can be done.


CUZ NFL HAD RECORD RATING

Ya favorite show droppin next week and da weeks where aint no NFL there to back ya.


----------



## K4L318

Chip Chipperson said:


> 1. Reddit Census, a census with statistics from wrestling fans on the largest wrestling forum on the planet. Here's a link:
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/bmsrui
> 
> 2. I have no idea what you're talking about here.
> 
> I'm on this board because I love chatting wrestling and it gives insight into what people want from wrestling. I think at this point a half dozen people have confirmed that I legit do own my indy.
> 
> I have insight bro, not into any Americans but I get a ton of casual wrestling fans that see a poster in a bakery or in a venue foyer and turn up. I talk to them, my Mrs who sells tickets talk to them and I'm always curious to know what they're into, why they're coming, what they thought etc. As a matter of fact at one point we were having them fill out forms voluntarily letting us know what they like, what they dislike etc. If I can find some of those sheets I may share them on the forum because it was pretty surprising even for me.


this 2019 for another brand.

do ya understand how polls work or nah ?

bruh ya on this board 24/7, to do ground work ya actually have to spend time researching patterns. Ya not doing dat. Whatever promotion ya run is probably not doing great. But ya opinion posts is plentiful and only points out ya opinion. No facts.


----------



## Prosper

K4L318 said:


> Wood and Chipper just dont like AEW and its dat easy. But dem kats do it 24/7 and act like some fact backs what they say and it aint happening.


Wood is still here? LOL unbelievable. 

Oh I know they hate the show, but it's entertaining engaging sometimes.


----------



## Klitschko

K4L318 said:


> this 2019 for another brand.
> 
> do ya understand how polls work or nah ?


Ya tell him brother. Dat fur another brand 2019. He no understand how work polls. Take dat @Chip Chipperson. Ya need to undestand dat for 2019.


----------



## The Wood

K4L318 said:


> CUZ NFL HAD RECORD RATING
> 
> Ya favorite show droppin next week and da weeks where aint no NFL there to back ya.


SmackDown isn’t my favourite show. Stop being a child just because things aren’t going your way. And AEW had a massive lead-in and didn’t do shit with it. That’s the point.


----------



## K4L318

The Wood said:


> SmackDown isn’t my favourite show. Stop being a child just because things aren’t going your way. And AEW had a massive lead-in and didn’t do shit with it. That’s the point.


yeh ya randomly talk bout it cuz ya making a point. Who being a child, say ya not here 24/7 being negative.. go ahead and say it. Like Eddie Murphy wit a ice cream cone. AEW had no massive nothing. 2M aint massive bruh, no one keeps 100% of dat audience. Not even SmackDown did.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> Card was hot-fire. You don’t need dramatic changes sometimes. You just need to put in a show people want to see.
> 
> The SD thread being dead AF is good evidence that wrestling works better when the internet folk aren’t calling the shots. When something is working, people sometimes just shut up and enjoy.
> 
> *People are excited because it’a a MASSIVE rating for wrestling. It can be done.*


Oh, so it IS possible that AEW could eventually get 3 million viewers at least several years from now. It's good to know that even you can admit that it can be done 

For the record, wrestling actually works better when the anti-smarks and the online critics don't call the shots tbh.

Plus, I'll also point out that plenty of wrestling fans are excited about the current angle with Kenny Omega; which is further demonstrated by his active thread on the AEW section :jericho2


----------



## Chip Chipperson

K4L318 said:


> this 2019 for another brand.
> 
> do ya understand how polls work or nah ?


Yeah, I go with 2019 because the 2020 Census cut out those aged 18-25 because of how embarrassing the statistics were. If you know anything about Reddit they are in love with AEW, these are the same people.

If you want to go off the 2020 Reddit Census results you have the following:

- 34% aged 25 or over living at home, with roommates or with family members

- $49,850 was the average income 

- Only 12% of the wrestling section on Reddit didn't follow AEW.

- 43.4% pirate AEW's PPV's presumably because they can't afford to buy it

- 64.8% hadn't attended a wrestling show presumably because they can't afford to.


Thank you.


----------



## Prosper

Quarterlies are not out yet but if we are talking overall numbers AEW had a lead-in of 2.9 million. SD had a lead-in of 35 million.

What's worse? lol


----------



## K4L318

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah, I go with 2019 because the 2020 Census cut out those aged 18-25 because of how embarrassing the statistics were. If you know anything about Reddit they are in love with AEW, these are the same people.
> 
> If you want to go off the 2020 Reddit Census results you have the following:
> 
> - 34% aged 25 or over living at home, with roommates or with family members
> 
> - $49,850 was the average income
> 
> - Only 12% of the wrestling section on Reddit didn't follow AEW.
> 
> - 43.4% pirate AEW's PPV's presumably because they can't afford to buy it
> 
> - 64.8% hadn't attended a wrestling show presumably because they can't afford to.
> 
> 
> Thank you.


again ya dont understand how polls are. And reddit is ya source? this embarrassing bruh.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

K4L318 said:


> bruh ya on this board 24/7, to do ground work ya actually have to spend time researching patterns. Ya not doing dat. Whatever promotion ya run is probably not doing great. But ya opinion posts is plentiful and only points out ya opinion. No facts.


Yeah, I'm on the board a lot because I have a job that at times has downtime. Sometimes I'll have a super busy day at work and not be around, other times I have a real quiet day and have plenty of time to ost.

Depends how you define great for an independent here in Aus, we ran two shows this year and both drew over the average (But not by much). I'm not claiming I'm super successful or anything like that just that I do have some insight into what a casual attendee wants.

I'd be happy to share if ya stupped talkin like dis nd actully want3d to hav a conv about it ya bruh


----------



## Chip Chipperson

K4L318 said:


> again ya dont understand how polls are. And reddit is ya source? this embarrassing bruh.


Reddit is the only place that has stats on wrestling fans to my knowledge, if you have another source on wrestling fans I'd be happy to see it.


----------



## Klitschko

K4L318 said:


> yeh ya randomly talk bout it cuz ya making a point. Who being a child, say ya not here 24/7 being negative.. go ahead and say it. Like Eddie Murphy wit a ice cream cone. AEW had no massive nothing. 2M aint massive bruh, no one keeps 100% of dat audience. Not even SmackDown did.


Wait, what? Can anyone translate this? 




prosperwithdeen said:


> Quarterlies are not out yet but if we are talking overall numbers AEW had a lead-in of 2.9 million. SD had a lead-in of 35 million.
> 
> What's worse? lol


Smackdown got about 1 million of that 35 million to stay though and increased their rating through the whole night. AEW got 0 out of the 2.9 million. AEW's is still worse in my opinion.


----------



## K4L318

Chip Chipperson said:


> *Yeah, I'm on the board a lot because I have a job that at times has downtime. *Sometimes I'll have a super busy day at work and not be around, other times I have a real quiet day and have plenty of time to ost.
> 
> Depends how you define great for an independent here in Aus, we ran two shows this year and both drew over the average (But not by much). I'm not claiming I'm super successful or anything like that just that I do have some insight into what a casual attendee wants.
> 
> I'd be happy to share if ya stupped talkin like dis nd actully want3d to hav a conv about it ya bruh


ya here cuz ya like it. Ya get off digging at AEW every day, its a fetish bro. 

first true thing ya said. 

being real and not caring bout perception on boards is my goal since I returned to this board.


----------



## K4L318

Chip Chipperson said:


> Reddit is the only place that has stats on wrestling fans to my knowledge, if you have another source on wrestling fans I'd be happy to see it.


Quarters


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Klitschko said:


> Wait, what? Can anyone translate this?


"Yeah! You're randomly talking about it because you're making a point! Whose being a child? Say you're not here 24/7 being negative! Go ahead and say it!

You're like Eddie Murphy with an ice cream cone (Editors note: Da fuck?)

AEW didn't have a massive rating, 2 million is not massive, brother. Nobody keeps 100% of the audience! Not even Smackdown did!"


----------



## Klitschko

Thanks Chip. You speak many languages.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

@K4L318 

What does Eddie Murphy eating an ice cream cone actually mean?


----------



## K4L318

Chip Chipperson said:


> @K4L318
> 
> What does Eddie Murphy eating an ice cream cone actually mean?


----------



## Prosper

Klitschko said:


> Smackdown got about 1 million of that 35 million to stay though and increased their rating through the whole night. AEW got 0 out of the 2.9 million. AEW's is still worse in my opinion.


They better have retained some people with that big of a pool lol. AEW gets a lead-in of 35 million I'm sure they would have retained some too. They lost 34 million viewers and those 1 million are more than likely not coming back next week. It was X-Mas night so how many TV's do you think could have just had it on in the background after the NFL game ended? If they can pull the same number or something close next week then I will gladly say that I am wrong, but we all know that's not gonna happen. I do see your POV though @Klitschko

Just for the record, I honestly don't even give a shit because I know that the mainstream audience is not interested in wrestling for the most part anyway lol but it's funny talking about it.


----------



## K4L318

I see ya kats later I got to pick someone up from the hospital. They dont got covid and dats great news.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

K4L318 said:


> I see ya kats later I got to pick someone up from the hospital. They dont got covid and dats great news.


Perhaps you can share an ice cream cone with them.


----------



## Prosper

K4L318 said:


>


LOL I fuc**in love Eddie Murphy, I would rock that red jumpsuit real quick if the occasion called for it


----------



## Klitschko

prosperwithdeen said:


> They better have retained some people with that big of a pool lol. AEW gets a lead-in of 35 million I'm sure they would have retained some too. They lost 34 million viewers and those 1 million are more than likely not coming back next week. It was X-Mas night so how many TV's do you think could have just had it on in the background after the NFL game ended? If they can pull the same number or something close next week then I will gladly say that I am wrong, but we all know that's not gonna happen. I do see your POV though @Klitschko
> 
> Just for the record, I honestly don't even give a shit because I know that the mainstream audience is not interested in wrestling for the most part anyway lol but it's funny talking about it.


I get your point, but even if 1/10th of that million decides that Smackdown is worth it and decides to stay as fans, it's a big win for WWE in my opinion. Of course their ratings will drop next week though, but instead of the usual 2.1, or 2.2 they get, it might be 2.3 or 2.4. Anything helps. And yea, its funny to talk about it and discuss with other fans, but I totally agree. Good point.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Klitschko said:


> I get your point, but even if 1/10th of that million decides that Smackdown is worth it and decides to stay as fans, it's a big win for WWE in my opinion. Of course their ratings will drop next week though, but instead of the usual 2.1, or 2.2 they get, it might be 2.3 or 2.4. Anything helps. And yea, its funny to talk about it and discuss with other fans, but I totally agree. Good point brother.


Yeah, nobody genuinely thinks a wrestling show is going to retain 100% but if you can get even an extra 50-100 thousand people to check it out next week that's a great boost.


----------



## Ozell Gray

K4L318 said:


> cuz peeps go to sleep at dat time, some of us work bruh. 😂


Excuses. If people wanted to watch it they would’ve watched it plain and simple.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> Oh, so it IS possible that AEW could eventually get 3 million viewers at least several years from now. It's good to know that even you can admit that it can be done
> 
> For the record, wrestling actually works better when the anti-smarks and the online critics don't call the shots tbh.
> 
> Plus, I'll also point out that plenty of wrestling fans are excited about the current angle with Kenny Omega; which is further demonstrated by his active thread on the AEW section :jericho2


I’ve never said that it couldn’t be done. That AEW doesn’t or can’t is why I’m disappointed in them.

No one cares about the Omega storyline. That’s why no one watches.

Wtf is an anti-smark? Do you just make up language to support your own position?



prosperwithdeen said:


> Quarterlies are not out yet but if we are talking overall numbers AEW had a lead-in of 2.9 million. SD had a lead-in of 35 million.
> 
> What's worse? lol


AEW.



prosperwithdeen said:


> They better have retained some people with that big of a pool lol. AEW gets a lead-in of 35 million I'm sure they would have retained some too. They lost 34 million viewers and those 1 million are more than likely not coming back next week. It was X-Mas night so how many TV's do you think could have just had it on in the background after the NFL game ended? If they can pull the same number or something close next week then I will gladly say that I am wrong, but we all know that's not gonna happen. I do see your POV though @Klitschko
> 
> Just for the record, I honestly don't even give a shit because I know that the mainstream audience is not interested in wrestling for the most part anyway lol but it's funny talking about it.


Haha, now the excuses come rolling. Why don’t you ever say that when AEW achieves something?


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> I’ve never said that it couldn’t be done. That AEW doesn’t or can’t is why I’m disappointed in them.
> 
> No one cares about the Omega storyline. That’s why no one watches.
> 
> *Wtf is an anti-smark? Do you just make up language to support your own position?*


What are you even talking about?

I didn't 'make up' that language. That term has been around in existence for over a decade now.

Edit:

I first heard about that term in (summer of) 2014 on this forum.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> What are you even talking about?
> 
> I didn't 'make up' that language. That term has been around in existence for over a decade now.


I've been in the wrestling business since I was 16 and I've only ever heard you using the term.

Not saying others don't but it's certainly not well known.


----------



## DammitChrist

Chip Chipperson said:


> I've been in the wrestling business since I was 16 and I've only ever heard you using the term.
> 
> Not saying others don't but it's certainly not well known.


Alright, MAYBE it's not as well-known as I originally thought. However, that term still existed for over a decade now.

Admittedly, I didn't even know what a "thot" actually was until earlier this year back in late-spring or early-summer, but yet that term has apparently been around since December 2012.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> Alright, MAYBE it's not as well-known as I originally thought. However, that term still existed for over a decade now.
> 
> Admittedly, I didn't even know what a "thot" actually was until earlier this year back in late-spring or early-summer, but yet that term has apparently been around since December 2012.


Only ever seen anti-smark used by people who have no clue what they’re talking about.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> Only ever seen anti-smark used by people who have no clue what they’re talking about.


Okay, now that's just you generalizing and disregarding my points just because I used ONE term that you dislike for some reason.


----------



## rbl85

Ozell Gray said:


> Excuses. If people wanted to watch it they would’ve watched it plain and simple.


You know there is something magical called "recording".

When a show is too late for you you can watch it the day after, i know it's hard to believe but some people don't want to go to bed after midnight when they have to get up at 6am.


----------



## Ozell Gray

rbl85 said:


> You know there is something magical called "recording".
> 
> When a show is too late for you you can watch it the day after, i know it's hard to believe but some people don't want to go to bed after midnight when they have to get up at 6am.



Networks don’t care about dvr because the live number is the only one that matters because of the ads they sell.


----------



## rbl85

Ozell Gray said:


> Networks don’t care about dvr because the live number is the only one that matters because of the ads they sell.


You were not talking about that in the post that i quoted.


----------



## Ozell Gray

rbl85 said:


> You were not talking about that in the post that i quoted.


Exactly because it’s irrelevant so why bring up?


----------



## rbl85

Ozell Gray said:


> Exactly because it’s irrelevant so why bring up?


You said that if people wanted to watch it they would have watched it.

All i'm saying is that in that now people can record a show if the show start too late.


----------



## Ozell Gray

rbl85 said:


> You said that if people wanted to watch it they would have watched it.
> 
> All i'm saying is that in that now people can record a show if the show start too late.



The point is they didn’t watch it and dvr numbers could be the same people who watched it live and I know because I used to do it all the time with Raw.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Is this just the ‘all wrestling’ ratings thread now since the others are so dead?

AEW, changing the universe once again


----------



## Klitschko

Pretty much @LifeInCattleClass lol.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> Okay, now that's just you generalizing and disregarding my points just because I used ONE term that you dislike for some reason.


I don’t like it because it’s a bullshit term that doesn’t make any sense. And it’s not me generalising, it’s true. No one with any clue about wrestling ever uses this term. It’s a bullshit smark term. 



rbl85 said:


> You were not talking about that in the post that i quoted.


It’s the ratings thread...


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> I don’t like it because it’s a bullshit term that doesn’t make any sense. And it’s not me generalising, it’s true. *No one with any clue about wrestling ever uses this term.* It’s a bullshit smark term.


It's too bad that I exist then since I do have a clue, and I use that term 

For the record, you know what's *truly* "bullshit" on here?

Anybody on here who resorts to calling any of the wrestlers, "geeks." It's laughable considering the fact it's usually ironic whenever someone uses that term. We're the actual geeks on here (including me). It's not the wrestlers at all.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> It's too bad that I exist then since I do have a clue, and I use that term
> 
> For the record, you know what's *truly* "bullshit" on here?
> 
> Anybody on here who resorts to calling any of the wrestlers, "geeks." It's laughable considering the fact it's usually ironic whenever someone uses that term. We're the actual geeks on here (including me). It's not the wrestlers at all.


You really don’t have a clue. Sorry, but it’s best you know.

A lot of the wrestlers today are geeks. There’s no manly prestige in wrestling anymore. It’s something the sick kid down the street can do now. That is what it is, but you can’t deny it.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Here’s one of the guys’ statement on being underpaid by AEW.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1343271725505654787


----------



## The Wood

Not a good look for the company. At all.


----------



## Ozell Gray

What’s more interesting is he’s adding more validity to Louie Benson’s (who’s a creep himself for his tweets about Cody Rhodes) allegations against the producers bullying him. He was bullied just like Louie was by the producers. Those AEW producers bullying guys are douchebags.


----------



## The Wood

Bet you Meltzer doesn’t cover this.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Oh you know he won’t cover it and he’ll act like he didn’t know or hear anything about it but he somehow knows everything else about the company that’s positive.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Wood said:


> Not a good look for the company. At all.


Neither are the first two replies











He's getting piled by fans also


----------



## One Shed

Chip Chipperson said:


> Neither are the first two replies
> 
> View attachment 95268
> 
> 
> 
> He's getting piled by fans also


Jelly taking a shot at someone is already the lowest this could go.


----------



## The Wood

Chip Chipperson said:


> Neither are the first two replies
> 
> View attachment 95268
> 
> 
> 
> He's getting piled by fans also


What the actual fucking fuck?

Yeah, how dare a guy who gets fucked around on pay stands up for himself? Fuck Joey Janela and fuck Ricky Starks. They can both go to hell.


----------



## The Wood

Fuck AEW and fuck Dave Meltzer if he doesn’t call them on this shit. I bet they use the death of Brodie Lee as an excuse to sweep this under the rug.

Fuuuuck that.


----------



## La Parka

Ozell Gray said:


> Here’s one of the guys’ statement on being underpaid by AEW.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1343271725505654787


The replies to this....

twitter is an AEW loyalist heaven, I’m not surprised that when people critique AEW on this forum it’s considered shocking when everywhere else will defend the indefensible.


----------



## Cult03

People on the internet would blow up if Vince undercut someone by $2 but they'll back AEW every single time. Weird fucking times


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I've made a thread about this so this thread doesn't go off topic


----------



## Ozell Gray

La Parka said:


> The replies to this....
> 
> twitter is an AEW loyalist heaven, I’m not surprised that when people critique AEW on this forum it’s considered shocking when everywhere else will defend the indefensible.


And you have Sean Ross Sapp telling him to keep his mouth shut because of Luke Harper’s death even though.
Telling the man not to complain about the money he’s owed is stupid because the man’s livlihood is on the line and he needs to feed his family.


----------



## The Wood

People using Brodie’s death to drag this guy. Un-fucking-believable. They’re two entirely different situations. Companies don’t get to stop paying people because someone dies. If it weren’t this, it would be another excuse.

And the irony of using the man’s death and having the gall to talk about “respect.” Fuck those people and fuck that company.


----------



## kamaro011

The timing is terrible, not that i disagree and condemn that tweet.

But because Brodie Lee death will overshadow those news and AEW sadly can get away with it.


----------



## The Wood

kamaro011 said:


> The timing is terrible, not that i disagree and condemn that tweet.
> 
> Because Brodie Lee death will overshadow those news and AEW sadly can get away with it.


You’ve got Sean Ross Sapp already trying to get rid of it. Cornette will hopefully talk about it on his podcast. I hope people don’t let this company forget. I’m certainly going to do my best to make sure I don’t let people forget.

And I’ll never let anyone forget what cunts Joey Janela and Ricky Starks are. Starks had potential, but now he’s got to go in the trash too. Consider any show he’s on blackballed.

I’m just one person, but hopefully more and more people wake up to what a disaster this company is.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> What the actual fucking fuck?
> 
> Yeah, how dare a guy who gets fucked around on pay stands up for himself? Fuck Joey Janela and fuck Ricky Starks. They can both go to hell.





The Wood said:


> Fuck AEW and fuck Dave Meltzer if he doesn’t call them on this shit. I bet they use the death of Brodie Lee as an excuse to sweep this under the rug.
> 
> Fuuuuck that.


Would you CALM THE FUCK DOWN, ALREADY!??? 

Holy shit, that’s enough drama for 1 day.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> Would you CALM THE FUCK DOWN, ALREADY!???
> 
> Holy shit, that’s enough drama for 1 day.


No. I want to be upset about this sort of stuff. I hate people getting dicked around on pay?


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> No. I want to be upset about this sort of stuff. I hate people getting dicked around on pay?


*_faux outrage_

You're such a noble guy. I recommend a few hours of ranting on an anonymous internet forum - that'll bring about justice for these guys you care so dearly about. 

Then repeat each day. 

Change the world Woody!


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> *_faux outrage_
> 
> You're such a noble guy. I recommend a few hours of ranting on an anonymous internet forum - that'll bring about justice for these guys you care so dearly about.
> 
> Then repeat each day.
> 
> Change the world Woody!


That was AEW’s slogan, mate, not mine. And believe me, it’s not faux outrage. Nice try though.


----------



## CM Buck

You two alright in here?


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> That was AEW’s slogan, mate, not mine. And believe me, it’s not faux outrage. Nice try though.


You're soooo passionate about these moral issues you're guna spend a few more hours on WF ranting. Right


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> You're soooo passionate about these moral issues you're guna spend a few more hours on WF ranting. Right


Yeah, sure. Why not? Does it bother you when people give a shit? Maybe you shouldn’t be so insecure with your own morals if you get so jealous of people caring about an issue. And you should definitely mind your own business here.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> Yeah, sure. Why not? Does it bother you when people give a shit? Maybe you shouldn’t be so insecure with your own morals if you get so jealous of people caring about an issue. And you should definitely mind your own business here.


People who actually give a shit aren't usually the ones putting on an image of giving a shit on the internet whilst not actually doing anything about shit. It is your right to continue with the sharade though so I'll leave you to it


----------



## CM Buck

@Pentagon Senior and @The Wood i got an idea let's talk about numbers instead of morals


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> People who actually give a shit aren't usually the ones putting on an image of giving a shit on the internet whilst not actually doing anything about shit. It is your right to continue with the sharade though so I'll leave you to it


Bro, you don’t know what I do or do not do with my time. I’m discussing it on WF, yes, so what? Your reaction is completely inane and, frankly, out of line.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Firefromthegods said:


> @Pentagon Senior and @The Wood i got an idea let's talk about numbers instead of morals


Great idea 🙏😁

This thread could have done with that pep talk a page or two ago


----------



## CM Buck

Pentagon Senior said:


> Great idea 🙏😁
> 
> This thread could have done with that pep talk a page or two ago


I'm sorry I tend to avoid this thread like the plague


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Firefromthegods said:


> I'm sorry I tend to avoid this thread like the plague


There's only so much one super hero can achieve! 

No worries at all


----------



## K4L318

Ozell Gray said:


> Excuses. If people wanted to watch it they would’ve watched it plain and simple.


not if I gots to wake up early. Why ya think DVR numbers are high?


----------



## K4L318

Bostic has a douche reputation in wrestling. Ya desperate to use him in a ratings thread.


----------



## Ozell Gray

K4L318 said:


> not if I gots to wake up early. Why ya think DVR numbers are high?


It's an excuse and dvr numbers are low plus networks don't care about dvr numbers.


----------



## K4L318

Ozell Gray said:


> It's an excuse and dvr numbers are low plus networks don't care about dvr numbers.


dvr is for peeps dat work. Idk anyone dat thinks over a million will watch cable wrestling at a 10 PM hour wit a new company. 

WWE literally only averages like 500 thousand more in dat time slot wit a much more TV veteran roster.


----------



## Ozell Gray

K4L318 said:


> dvr is for peeps dat work. Idk anyone dat thinks over a million will watch cable wrestling at a 10 PM hour wit a new company.
> 
> WWE literally only averages like 500 thousand more in dat time slot wit a much more TV veteran roster.


Except Dynamite isn't getting 1 million viewers. It's only getting 800,000 on average.


----------



## K4L318

Ozell Gray said:


> Except Dynamite isn't getting 1 million viewers. It's only getting 800,000 on average.


so how ya expect dem to get more on an hour all of wrestling dont?


----------



## The Wood

That’s kind of the reality of the situation they find themselves in.


----------



## Ozell Gray

K4L318 said:


> so how ya expect dem to get more on an hour all of wrestling dont?


Who's fault is that? It's theirs because they can't grow their audience.


----------



## K4L318

Ozell Gray said:


> Who's fault is that? It's theirs because they can't grow their audience.


We talking bout 10PM to 12AM 

bruh 😂


----------



## Ozell Gray

K4L318 said:


> We talking bout 10PM to 12AM
> 
> bruh 😂


It doesn’t matter. They can’t grow.


----------



## omaroo

Wrestling is dead let's be honest. WWE ain't growing any longer so AEW have no chance.


----------



## Claro De Luna

Only a few tickets remaining for tonight's show. Good result.


----------



## Aedubya

Over a million tonight


----------



## DammitChrist

Man, tonight is going to be an emotional rollercoaster :mj2


----------



## 10gizzle

The Wood said:


> No. I want to be upset about this sort of stuff. I hate people getting dicked around on pay?


Not sure if this guy is still around, and frankly, I don't want to speak poorly of someone who isn't around to defend themselves.

But this guy is one of the biggest internet cowards I've ever seen in my life. It's almost impressive.

Anyways - can someone fill me in on why these guys all got banned?


----------



## Dark Emperor

10gizzle said:


> Anyways - can someone fill me in on why these guys all got banned?


I was just thinking the AEW section is quiet compared to usual. Now I’ve realised the main AEW critics got banned simultaneously.

No idea why they go banned and it doesn’t seem fair. But it’s probably for the best in short term. This week should be for Brodie Lee and we should stop having pointless arguments which goes 20+ pages on non meaningful topics.


----------



## 3venflow

I think this week's ratings are delayed until Monday due to the holidays. Predictions? I think it may top a million.


----------



## Prized Fighter

Not that ratings matter this week, but #AEWDynamite was the #1 twitter trend in the USA for 8 straight hours. #RIPBrodieLee was #2 for 6 of those hours. 

It really is amazing how much of the wrestling world was connected to Brodie.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> I think this week's ratings are delayed until Monday due to the holidays. Predictions? I think it may top a million.


its hard to care about ratings as people will use it in a weird way

either ‘they didn’t pop a rating even with...’ or ‘they can only pop a rating when....’

and people will use it to validate or invalidate a show that is about way more than ratings

all that said - will be over a mil i think, over 0.4 in demo

number 1 show on the night? Maybe - definitely top 3


----------



## Pentagon Senior

I expect a strong rating but it's not important this week - other than for the fact that a good number of people will have had their chance to pay respects to Brodie, which is the main thing.


----------



## Pippen94

Dynamite averages 30k tweets at close of show. Sting & Shaq show was about 40k. Tonight's show finished with 74k & obviously grew to 115k which is double any number I've seen


----------



## bdon

Pentagon Senior said:


> I expect a strong rating but it's not important this week - other than for the fact that a good number of people will have had their chance to pay respects to Brodie, which is the main thing.


Only thing that matters when popping a big number is the follow-up shows.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

bdon said:


> Only thing that matters when popping a big number is the follow-up shows.


True and this is an area they've struggled with several times. The next two shows look stacked though and matches already announced - so hopefully they can retain some good numbers for a few weeks at least.


----------



## zaz102

Pentagon Senior said:


> True and this is an area they've struggled with several times. The next two shows look stacked though and matches already announced - so hopefully they can retain some good numbers for a few weeks at least.


If you look at trends for the last year, AEW has been trending up (minus their initial pop and COVID impact), while RAW, Smackdown, and NXT have become pretty static.

However, it has also been more inconsistent than those other shows. It seems that people are interested and slowly are giving it a chance based on what they promote.

Although it seems to be on the right track, it does seem if they are able to string a bunch of big shows in a row that a lot of these fans would stick around.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## Pentagon Senior

zaz102 said:


> If you look at trends for the last year, AEW has been trending up (minus their initial pop and COVID impact), while RAW, Smackdown, and NXT have become pretty static.
> 
> However, it has also been more inconsistent than those other shows. It seems that people are interested and slowly are giving it a chance based on what they promote.
> 
> Although it seems to be on the right track, it does seem if they are able to string a bunch of big shows in a row that a lot of these fans would stick around.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


Yup, agree on all counts. I think their numbers are impressive personally considering they've had a global pandemic and no crowds in their first full year. To me, that's a huge factor that's not given enough credit. 

But yes there's also the feeling that if they could have put on a string of high quality episodes following a ppv or the recent Sting buzz - that they may have convinced a few extra folks to stick around. 

Any growth is likely to be very gradual but it'll be interesting to see what happens if/when we get crowds back for a period of time. That'll tell us more than where we're at now.


----------



## rich110991

I hope they did pull in over 1 mil due to the tribute show. I hope they gained new viewers due to it too. Brodie would have wanted AEW to succeed.


----------



## Shock Street

I figure over a mil this and next week and then back to business as usual after.


----------



## Dizzie

I would like to think this will not be a week where fans either for or against aew get wrapped up in another round of ratings war bs


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1344744183538585601

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Aedubya

What does he mean "commit to the bit"?


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1344763625291079684


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1344763625291079684


not sure where they would’ve gotten that

but sounds correct


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> not sure where they would’ve gotten that
> 
> but sounds correct


Wade is pretty reputable source


----------



## qntntgood

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1344763625291079684


Damn shame,this show deserved more.aew did a hell of job,celebrating the life of brodie lee.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

The numbers don’t matter


----------



## Pippen94

Good numbers, but yes not important this week


----------



## Erik.

Only number that matters this week is -1.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

DammitChrist said:


> Man, tonight is going to be an emotional rollercoaster :mj2


And it was exactly that. When I first saw the news, my jaw literally dropped. And then reading all the memories from his friends and watching last night, I’m not ashamed to say I was watery-eyed through the whole show. Between grown adults getting all welled up, the shots of -1 and the rest of the family, and the tributes themselves, I couldn’t hold it together. You just don’t realize what some of these people are and mean to each other outside of the ring. As many of them said, the one thing that helps is seeing what a positive impact he had on so many people. I’ve seen plenty of tributes over the many years I’ve been a fan, but I’ve never seen such an outpouring as this.

Anyway, it was an awesome tribute show to who we’re only now learning was an awesome person. Thoughts and prayers are with his beautiful family and friends.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pippen94 said:


> Wade is pretty reputable source


ahead of all the execs of the world?

ooook.... i mean, i’ll take it

but lets confirm Monday with showbuzz


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Reggie Dunlop said:


> And it was exactly that. When I first saw the news, my jaw literally dropped. And then reading all the memories from his friends and watching last night, I’m not ashamed to say I was watery-eyed through the whole show. Between grown adults getting all welled up, the shots of -1 and the rest of the family, and the tributes themselves, I couldn’t hold it together. You just don’t realize what some of these people are and mean to each other outside of the ring. As many of them said, the one thing that helps is seeing what a positive impact he had on so many people. I’ve seen plenty of tributes over the many years I’ve been a fan, but I’ve never seen such an outpouring as this.
> 
> Anyway, it was an awesome tribute show to who we’re only now learning was an awesome person. Thoughts and prayers are with his beautiful family and friends.


a wild Reg appears!

happy new year brother


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ahead of all the execs of the world?
> 
> ooook.... i mean, i’ll take it
> 
> but lets confirm Monday with showbuzz


Wade & Dave are the two pillars of dirt sheets - been covering sport since 1980's. Plus, the torch gets ratings breakdowns before everyone else... But yeah, Monday might have adjustments


----------



## VIP86

Erik. said:


> Only number that matters this week is -1.


exactly this


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

LifeInCattleClass said:


> a wild Reg appears!
> 
> happy new year brother


Happy New Year to you too, sir, and may 2021 be better than 2020. God knows it will be hard to be worse.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Happy New Year to you too, sir, and may 2021 be better than 2020. God knows it will be hard to be worse.


lol, you said it


----------



## Aedubya

Still think it'll be just over a mill by Mondays count


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Wade & Dave are the two pillars of dirt sheets - been covering sport since 1980's. Plus, the torch gets ratings breakdowns before everyone else... But yeah, Monday might have adjustments


Yeah I am sure the Torch gets ratings before companies whose business it is to get and report on ratings.

In before the number is a bit different Monday and Cousin Wade says "looks like they adjusted the number because of blah blah"


----------



## Klitschko

Predicting 920k for the Brodi show.


----------



## Ozell Gray

900k is more realistic than 1 million.


----------



## Klitschko

Ozell Gray said:


> 900k is more realistic than 1 million.


Good to have you back @Ozell Gray


----------



## Ozell Gray

Klitschko said:


> Good to have you back @Ozell Gray


Glad to be back friend.


----------



## Klitschko

Ozell Gray said:


> 900k is more realistic than 1 million.


I dont think they will hit 1 million in a while. They had their few chances and blew it. 900's is their max for now at least.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Klitschko said:


> I dont think they will hit 1 million in a while. They had their few chances and blew it. 900's is their max for now at least.


I think if they bring in someone like CM Punk they’ll get 1 million or if this Impact partnership leads to inter promotional matches and storylines then I think they can get there. As it stands now 900k is the limit with 800k being the average in a normal week.


----------



## The Wood

AEW’s gotten as high as it can get on its merits. Wrestling will see a surge in popularity around the second half of the year when The Rock’s promotion launches on NBC. He’ll be getting 3-4 million people, and that will just be good for wrestling. I think Raw and SmackDown goes up to 2.7 million on the regular, while Raw probably goes up to 2.2 million or so. AEW and NXT will both see increases of about 250k or so. So consistently over 1 million for AEW, but it won’t be because the show has figured out some magic recipe or anything.


----------



## 3venflow

The Wood said:


> AEW’s gotten as high as it can get on its merits. Wrestling will see a surge in popularity around the second half of the year when The Rock’s promotion launches on NBC.


What makes you think he's gonna do that? He's the producer for ten upcoming movies, is producing one right now, and has plenty of acting gigs coming up. He's also hinted at getting into politics. I think a wrestling promotion will be far from his mind in 2021. The only Rock we'll see on NBC in 2021 will be Young Rock the comedy series.


----------



## The Wood

3venflow said:


> What makes you think he's gonna do that? He's the producer for ten upcoming movies, is producing one right now, and has plenty of acting gigs coming up. He's also hinted at getting into politics. I think a wrestling promotion will be far from his mind in 2021. The only Rock we'll see on NBC in 2021 will be Young Rock the comedy series.


We’ll see.

Yes, The Rock is a very busy man. I’m not saying he will be around every week taking bumps or anything. But the guy just bought the zombie corpse of a defunct football league. Why would it be so strange to hear that he’s going to get into the business side of the genre that brought him to the dance?

I think it’s just jarring to think about because it might actually be big and good, and it’s weird to think about wrestling in that sort of positive light.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Wood said:


> AEW’s gotten as high as it can get on its merits. Wrestling will see a surge in popularity around the second half of the year when The Rock’s promotion launches on NBC. He’ll be getting 3-4 million people, and that will just be good for wrestling. I think Raw and SmackDown goes up to 2.7 million on the regular, while Raw probably goes up to 2.2 million or so. AEW and NXT will both see increases of about 250k or so. So consistently over 1 million for AEW, but it won’t be because the show has figured out some magic recipe or anything.


Welcome back, friend.


----------



## The Wood

Chip Chipperson said:


> Welcome back, friend.


Likewise. I hope you had some good time away, haha.


----------



## TheDraw

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *They lost 200,000 viewers because they got complacent and thought Sting would be enough to carry this bullshit card full of meaningless tag team matches. You can't have a blockbuster show one week and then announce complete trash the next week and expect to maintain viewership.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1339677618816208896*


Sammy Guevara's haircut alone by itself is responsible for - 50,000 of those viewers you listed.


----------



## Pippen94

@RapShepard below are ratings for smack down - didn't retain anything from last weeks NFL lead-in enhanced numbers in fact dropped;
*1.915M | 3.336M [ - 1.421M | - 42.60% ]
0.500D | 0.950D [ - 0.450D | - 47.37% ]*


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> @RapShepard below are ratings for smack down - didn't retain anything from last weeks NFL lead-in enhanced numbers in fact dropped;
> *1.915M | 3.336M [ - 1.421M | - 42.60% ]
> 0.500D | 0.950D [ - 0.450D | - 47.37% ]*


Yup they evidently didn't convince folk to come back.


----------



## Pippen94

Aedubya said:


> Still think it'll be just over a mill by Mondays count


Wwe Wednesday show much lower than usual suggests to me numbers will adjusted up


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> Yup they evidently didn't convince folk to come back.


Maybe growth is incremental & expecting show to retain large number from previous big week is unrealistic?! Across the board with wwe, aew & impact...


----------



## Pippen94

3venflow said:


> What makes you think he's gonna do that? He's the producer for ten upcoming movies, is producing one right now, and has plenty of acting gigs coming up. He's also hinted at getting into politics. I think a wrestling promotion will be far from his mind in 2021. The only Rock we'll see on NBC in 2021 will be Young Rock the comedy series.


Pure fantasy to derail topic - there's no indication of this happening


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Maybe growth is incremental & expecting show to retain large number from previous big week is unrealistic?! Across the board with wwe, aew & impact...


In these threads I've consistently said AEW are doing more than fine given where they typically rank and what most shows do demo and viewership wise. 

You don't like that I called you on your BS of trying to mix and match weeks to declare a win. Or the fact that your small sample size of growth ultimately didn't hold up.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> In these threads I've consistently said AEW are doing more than fine given where they typically rank and what most shows do demo and viewership wise.
> 
> You don't like that I called you on your BS of trying to mix and match weeks to declare a win. Or the fact that your small sample size of growth ultimately didn't hold up.


What I don't like is when ppl use inevitable drop after big show to make false points when trend is same across all wrestling companies & maybe every single TV show. 

As far as growth of aew; look at dip when covid stared & steady climb since then - maybe that's what you should look for rather than big leap one week


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> What I don't like is when ppl use inevitable drop after big show to make false points when trend is same across all wrestling companies & maybe every single TV show.
> 
> As far as growth of aew; look at dip when covid stared & steady climb since then - maybe that's what you should look for rather than big leap one week


Stop the bull shit. You used the episodes around the build to Omega vs Moxley, Sting debut, and Omega title win to paint a narrative of growth to the point Dynamite would be the number 1 wrestling show on cable come the end of June. Then got salty when the inevitable fall back happened and it got pointed out to you.

Just remember these 2 things. 

1. You can't use different weeks to try and fish out a win

2. They need to stop being stagnant and actually grow before your prediction comes true, if it ever does


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> Stop the bull shit. You used the episodes around the build to Omega vs Moxley, Sting debut, and Omega title win to paint a narrative of growth to the point Dynamite would be the number 1 wrestling show on cable come the end of June. Then got salty when the inevitable fall back happened and it got pointed out to you.
> 
> Just remember these 2 things.
> 
> 1. You can't use different weeks to try and fish out a win
> 
> 2. They need to stop being stagnant and actually grow before your prediction comes true, if it ever does


You're changed topic & you're wrong on that topic too. 

First, you've placed unrealistic expectations for retaining large number of viewers from big rating. Looking at other companies this doesn't happen - probably doesn't for any show on TV. Growth is more incremental

On second matter, aew caught wwe because the later is declining dramatically over course of year & aew is steady & slightly climbing. On this trend this will happen again in new year & again & again...


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> You're changed topic & you're wrong on that topic too.
> 
> First, you've placed unrealistic expectations for retaining large number of viewers from big rating. Looking at other companies this doesn't happen - probably doesn't for any show on TV. Growth is more incremental
> 
> On second matter, aew caught wwe because the later is declining dramatically over course of year & aew is steady & slightly climbing. On this trend this will happen again in new year & again & again...


I've placed no expectations on them. You're the one who said they'll be number 1 in 6 months, when they have yet to have a higher demo than Raw in the same calendar week let alone viewers. Let's face it you're salty that I used them falling back to earth after a few better than usual weeks to disprove your ridiculous prediction as ridiculous. As I told you from the jump your sample size was too small to credibily make that prediction.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pippen94 said:


> @RapShepard below are ratings for smack down - didn't retain anything from last weeks NFL lead-in enhanced numbers in fact dropped;
> *1.915M | 3.336M [ - 1.421M | - 42.60% ]
> 0.500D | 0.950D [ - 0.450D | - 47.37% ]*


that‘S still Very good though

didn’t they move up from 2m or something?

unless i am reading wrong? They did 3.3m right?


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> that‘S still Very good though
> 
> didn’t they move up from 2m or something?
> 
> unless i am reading wrong? They did 3.3m right?


Thanks for Dorothy Dix question; last week smack down had lead-in from Xmas NFL game which did 20 million (don't quote me). That week was 3.3 million. This week didn't retain any of those viewers & in fact lost others.
The never wrong rapshepard has a go at aew for not retaining viewers after big shows but looks like it's true of wwe as well - maybe all TV shows


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> that‘S still Very good though
> 
> didn’t they move up from 2m or something?
> 
> unless i am reading wrong? They did 3.3m right?


No, they went down, @Pippen94 is just upset I mocked his ridiculous prediction that AEW would be number 1 on cable by July. A prediction mind you that was based on 4 weeks of big shows. And that weird AEW did a better demo number than Raw the following week (Pip ignored Raw beat the Dynamite episodes that aired the same week both weeks).


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> No, they went down, @Pippen94 is just upset I mocked his ridiculous prediction that AEW would be number 1 on cable by July. A prediction mind you that was based on 4 weeks of big shows. And that weird AEW did a better demo number than Raw the following week (Pip ignored Raw beat the Dynamite episodes that aired the same week both weeks).


smackdown isn’t on cable though, right? 

....mmmm..... if AEW does some big things they can rival RAW by July

but i recon not without crowds

anyway - long way away  - but i also see i stepped in the middle of something, so you lads have fun


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> smackdown isn’t on cable though, right?
> 
> ....mmmm..... if AEW does some big things they can rival RAW by July
> 
> but i recon not without crowds
> 
> anyway - long way away  - but i also see i stepped in the middle of something, so you lads have fun


Sure but that's the key they have to do big things. You don't just make that prediction on a few good shows.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Sure but that's the key they have to do big things. You don't just make that prediction on a few good shows.


true true

if they just stay the course it will be 750 - 900 the whole of 2021

guaranteed


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> true true
> 
> if they just stay the course it will be 750 - 900 the whole of 2021
> 
> guaranteed


Already happened - Rap predicted it wouldn't happen just 3 days before. Boy, he was embarrassed








WWE Raw Loses to AEW Dynamite in Ratings, Draws All-Time Low Audience


The ratings for this week's Monday Night Raw (Dec. 14) have arrived, and they're historically bad. [...]




www.google.com


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pippen94 said:


> Already happened - Rap predicted it wouldn't happen just 3 days before. Boy, he was embarrassed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WWE Raw Loses to AEW Dynamite in Ratings, Draws All-Time Low Audience
> 
> 
> The ratings for this week's Monday Night Raw (Dec. 14) have arrived, and they're historically bad. [...]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com


consistently brother

at the moment then only way they'll meet every week is if RAW falls more - and their Demos might be a lot closer.... which we all know is the only thing that matters 

but I'm only interested if they consistently beat them


----------



## Seafort

Putting this here as well as I thought it's more applicable to the ratings thread:

In one sense AEW can win by just holding firm in what they are doing for the next three years. And what I mean by that is quite simple - if AEW is at the same place viewer-wise in 2023 as they are presently, or has even grown slightly, they could end up with more viewers than RAW which has continued its collapse in viewership unabated. If these trends continue, at some point in the next two years RAW and AEW viewership will intersect.

People will cite - and correctly so - that AEW's viewership is smaller than TNA's at it's peak. And they're right. But you also have to compare that to RAW's viewership.

7/16/12 RAW: 4.9M viewers
7/26/12 Impact!: 1.5M viewers (highest viewer total ever for TNA)

This episode of Impact! had the highest viewer total ever for TNA, and it was *30%* of WWE's RAW. And yes, I'm excluding RAW's reunion show from 7/23/12 that drew 6M viewers - that's an anomaly from that time period.

So let's compare RAW now to Dynamite.

12/14/20 RAW: 1.53M viewers
12/16/20 Dynamite: 0.806M viewers

AEW's Dynamite had *52%* of RAW's viewership that week. And the 12/14 episode was not the highest viewer total ever for AEW. The previous week did .995M viewers (one of the highest for AEW).

And finally, let's compare RAW and Dynamite to where they were a year ago.

12/16/19 RAW: 2.05M viewers (cited at the time as the lowest non-holiday RAW viewership ever)
12/18/19 Dynamite: 0.683M viewers (this represented a low-water mark for AEW at the time)

*Bottom Line*: A year ago we had AEW with 33% of RAW's viewership. AEW has held steady with numbers and actually has seen some growth in 2020. WWE is down 25% year over year, and now we have Dynamite equaling 52% of RAW viewership. If the trend continues, the two companies will meet up. And if nothing changes, All Elite Wrestling's Dynamite show will potentially have a higher viewer total than RAW when it comes time for WWE to renew its deal with the USA Network.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> smackdown isn’t on cable though, right?
> 
> ....mmmm..... if AEW does some big things they can rival RAW by July
> 
> but i recon not without crowds
> 
> anyway - long way away  - but i also see i stepped in the middle of something, so you lads have fun


They did big things already, and they fucking proceeded to shit on the customers who came to see Sting and give them a chance.

But I don’t expect you to see or understand that.


----------



## One Shed

You guys do realize the 1/1 Smackdown went up against the NCAA football semi-finals right? And next week's RAW (1/11) will be up against the national championship game? So considering that, I would say being just a bit under what you had been pulling for the past few months is pretty decent.


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Already happened - Rap predicted it wouldn't happen just 3 days before. Boy, he was embarrassed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WWE Raw Loses to AEW Dynamite in Ratings, Draws All-Time Low Audience
> 
> 
> The ratings for this week's Monday Night Raw (Dec. 14) have arrived, and they're historically bad. [...]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com


Imagine trying to claim a ratings win over a show that aired in a different week. This is how desperate you are lol.


----------



## DaSlacker

What's with all the talk of Dwayne Johnson starting a wrestling promotion? 

He's producing a show for HBO about backyard wrestling. But I really can't see him committing all that time needed (full time and then some) to run a wrestling promotion. Plus where are the wrestlers/agents coming from considering 100s are contractually obliged to WWE, AEW, Anthem, Sinclair. NJPW etc? Who's booking it? Why would he risk a sizeable amount of his net worth on a niche industry he conquered 20 years ago? 

Apart from his own name value, why do people think he can do better than what McMahon and Khan are doing? He's never booked and came up through a pure sports entertainment perspective - Russo and Gerwirtz were his closest associates. There's a big difference in producing The Titan Games and producing a successful wrestling company.


----------



## RapShepard

Seafort said:


> Putting this here as well as I thought it's more applicable to the ratings thread:
> 
> In one sense AEW can win by just holding firm in what they are doing for the next three years. And what I mean by that is quite simple - if AEW is at the same place viewer-wise in 2023 as they are presently, or has even grown slightly, they could end up with more viewers than RAW which has continued its collapse in viewership unabated. If these trends continue, at some point in the next two years RAW and AEW viewership will intersect.
> 
> People will cite - and correctly so - that AEW's viewership is smaller than TNA's at it's peak. And they're right. But you also have to compare that to RAW's viewership.
> 
> 7/16/12 RAW: 4.9M viewers
> 7/26/12 Impact!: 1.5M viewers (highest viewer total ever for TNA)
> 
> This episode of Impact! had the highest viewer total ever for TNA, and it was *30%* of WWE's RAW. And yes, I'm excluding RAW's reunion show from 7/23/12 that drew 6M viewers - that's an anomaly from that time period.
> 
> So let's compare RAW now to Dynamite.
> 
> 12/14/20 RAW: 1.53M viewers
> 12/16/20 Dynamite: 0.806M viewers
> 
> AEW's Dynamite had *52%* of RAW's viewership that week. And the 12/14 episode was not the highest viewer total ever for AEW. The previous week did .995M viewers (one of the highest for AEW).
> 
> And finally, let's compare RAW and Dynamite to where they were a year ago.
> 
> 12/16/19 RAW: 2.05M viewers (cited at the time as the lowest non-holiday RAW viewership ever)
> 12/18/19 Dynamite: 0.683M viewers (this represented a low-water mark for AEW at the time)
> 
> *Bottom Line*: A year ago we had AEW with 33% of RAW's viewership. AEW has held steady with numbers and actually has seen some growth in 2020. WWE is down 25% year over year, and now we have Dynamite equaling 52% of RAW viewership. If the trend continues, the two companies will meet up. And if nothing changes, All Elite Wrestling's Dynamite show will potentially have a higher viewer total than RAW when it comes time for WWE to renew its deal with the USA Network.


The only thing about this is what does it say about the perception of AEW's product if folk are predicting not that AEW will genuinely grow to catch them. But Raw will eventually stoop to their level. A show like that is probably more likely to slowly decline than stay steady. They're going to need to actually get a must see storyline or more so get fans back invested in Kenny's program and Sting. Both shows have found a pandemic norm that stays the same unless a big show happens or stiff sports competition. 

Dynamite ratings tracker








AEW Dynamite Sees Big Drop In Viewership From Last Week, WWE NXT Viewership Rises


Week 62 of the Wednesday Night War saw AEW Dynamite defeat WWE NXT in viewership and ratings.Wednesday's live episode of Dynamite drew 806,000 viewers on…




www.wrestlinginc.com






Raw ratings tracker








WWE RAW Viewership Up For Final Episode Of The Year, Total And Average For 2020


Monday's live edition of RAW, the final show of the year with Randy Orton and Alexa Bliss in the main event segment, drew an average…




www.wrestlinginc.com


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DaSlacker said:


> Apart from his own name value, why do people think he can do better than what McMahon and Khan are doing? He's never booked and came up through a pure sports entertainment perspective - Russo and Gerwirtz were his closest associates. There's a big difference in producing The Titan Games and producing a successful wrestling company.


I don't think he could do better than Vince but Tony Khan I'd say yes. At the very least Rock has an eye for talent and an understanding on how wrestling should be.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Two Sheds said:


> You guys do realize the 1/1 Smackdown went up against the NCAA football semi-finals right? And next week's RAW (1/11) will be up against the national championship game? So considering that, I would say being just a bit under what you had been pulling for the past few months is pretty decent.


Yep. Smackdown still #1 in the demo even at .5. Everything was down


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> The only thing about this is what does it say about the perception of AEW's product if folk are predicting not that AEW will genuinely grow to catch them. But Raw will eventually stoop to their level. A show like that is probably more likely to slowly decline than stay steady. They're going to need to actually get a must see storyline or more so get fans back invested in Kenny's program and Sting. Both shows have found a pandemic norm that stays the same unless a big show happens or stiff sports competition.
> 
> Dynamite ratings tracker
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW Dynamite Sees Big Drop In Viewership From Last Week, WWE NXT Viewership Rises
> 
> 
> Week 62 of the Wednesday Night War saw AEW Dynamite defeat WWE NXT in viewership and ratings.Wednesday's live episode of Dynamite drew 806,000 viewers on…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlinginc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Raw ratings tracker
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WWE RAW Viewership Up For Final Episode Of The Year, Total And Average For 2020
> 
> 
> Monday's live edition of RAW, the final show of the year with Randy Orton and Alexa Bliss in the main event segment, drew an average…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlinginc.com


Raw hasn't normalized - it just did it's lowest ratings in the history of show a few weeks ago. This was after breaking that record numerous times throughout year. Following this trend allowed me to correctly predict aew dynamite surpassing raw total. You focus too much on individual weeks which fluctuate - step back & look at long term trend


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Raw hasn't normalized - it just did it's lowest ratings in the history of show a few weeks ago. This was after breaking that record numerous times throughout year. Following this trend allowed me to correctly predict aew dynamite surpassing raw total. You focus too much on individual weeks which fluctuate - step back & look at long term trend


When has Dynamite beat Raw in the demo and viewership in the same week?

You're not looking at long time trends. Which is why you bust a nut over a few better than normal rating shows, then immediately changed you're tune when shit went back to reality.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> I don't think he could do better than Vince but Tony Khan I'd say yes. At the very least Rock has an eye for talent and an understanding on how wrestling should be.


Background in wrestling is overrated. Tony Khan dominates HHH every week. Outsiders can offer new approach which can catch hold. You hear very little original ideas these days from ppl involved in industry at all levels.


----------



## Pippen94

DaSlacker said:


> What's with all the talk of Dwayne Johnson starting a wrestling promotion?
> 
> He's producing a show for HBO about backyard wrestling. But I really can't see him committing all that time needed (full time and then some) to run a wrestling promotion. Plus where are the wrestlers/agents coming from considering 100s are contractually obliged to WWE, AEW, Anthem, Sinclair. NJPW etc? Who's booking it? Why would he risk a sizeable amount of his net worth on a niche industry he conquered 20 years ago?
> 
> Apart from his own name value, why do people think he can do better than what McMahon and Khan are doing? He's never booked and came up through a pure sports entertainment perspective - Russo and Gerwirtz were his closest associates. There's a big difference in producing The Titan Games and producing a successful wrestling company.


Wwe fans are preconditioned to see attitude era stars coming back & popping business. When asked to make long term predictions this narrative seeps in


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> You guys do realize the 1/1 Smackdown went up against the NCAA football semi-finals right? And next week's RAW (1/11) will be up against the national championship game? So considering that, I would say being just a bit under what you had been pulling for the past few months is pretty decent.


Raw went up against first round of NFL last year & saw minimal drop. Hard to imagine college game being greater competition


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> When has Dynamite beat Raw in the demo and viewership in the same week?
> 
> You're not looking at long time trends. Which is why you bust a nut over a few better than normal rating shows, then immediately changed you're tune when shit went back to reality.


Tell me what raw did at start of last year & then at end?? Do same for year before. Which way numbers going??


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Tell me what raw did at start of last year & then at end?? Do same for year before. Which way numbers going??


Answer the question you were provided, when has AEW Dynamite got a higher rating and viewership than an episode of Raw that aired in the same week?


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> consistently brother
> 
> at the moment then only way they'll meet every week is if RAW falls more - and their Demos might be a lot closer.... which we all know is the only thing that matters
> 
> but I'm only interested if they consistently beat them


That's how it is tho & why dynamite will catch raw - raw dropping is overriding factor


RapShepard said:


> Answer the question you were provided, when has AEW Dynamite got a higher rating and viewership than an episode of Raw that aired in the same week?


It didn't; Dynamite beat following week's raw in demo


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> It didn't; Dynamite beat following week's raw in demo


So they've yet to beat them making your prediction of AEW becoming the number 1 cable wrestling show by July ridiculous. Glad you could send back that.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> So they've yet to beat them making your prediction of AEW becoming the number 1 cable wrestling show by July ridiculous. Glad you could send back that.


Not in calendar week but you applied that parameter to spare your own blushes. 

Dynamite has surpassed raw's lowest total multiple times in recent months - brave person predicting it'll never ellipse raw in same week going forward


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Not in calendar week but you applied that parameter to spare your own blushes.
> 
> Dynamite has surpassed raw's lowest total multiple times in recent months - brave person predicting it'll never ellipse raw in same week going forward


But the ridiculousness of your statement is they've never actually passed Raw's lowest in the same week demo wise, and certainly aren't even close viewership wise. Which means Raw can absolutely tank and AEW doesn't come close.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> But the ridiculousness of your statement is they've never actually passed Raw's lowest in the same week demo wise, and certainly aren't even close viewership wise. Which means Raw can absolutely tank and AEW doesn't come close.


A good week for dynamite just needs to line up with bad week for raw - on trend will happen.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pippen94 said:


> That's how it is tho & why dynamite will catch raw - raw dropping is overriding factor
> 
> 
> It didn't; Dynamite beat following week's raw in demo


I can tell you now though - when Dynamite consistently beats Raw in the Key Demo - the 'key demo doesn't matter' crowd will be more virulent than ever before


but when you think about it, the most damaging narrative ever, is 'WWE is for old people, AEW is for young' - that will have some long lasting effects over the years


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> A good week for dynamite just needs to line up with bad week for raw - on trend will happen.


But that was never your argument that they could pass them once



Pippen94 said:


> Aew growing every week 0.37, 0.42 & now 0.45.
> Projections to catch raw have speed up - so close now.
> At this rate will become no.1 wrestling show on cable sometime in first half of next year


That's you 12/10 you predicted they'd be number 1 period by July. No current evidence points to them doing this. They've loss to record low Raw's for fucks sake. You have no legs to stand on.


----------



## The Wood

DaSlacker said:


> What's with all the talk of Dwayne Johnson starting a wrestling promotion?
> 
> He's producing a show for HBO about backyard wrestling. But I really can't see him committing all that time needed (full time and then some) to run a wrestling promotion. Plus where are the wrestlers/agents coming from considering 100s are contractually obliged to WWE, AEW, Anthem, Sinclair. NJPW etc? Who's booking it? Why would he risk a sizeable amount of his net worth on a niche industry he conquered 20 years ago?
> 
> Apart from his own name value, why do people think he can do better than what McMahon and Khan are doing? He's never booked and came up through a pure sports entertainment perspective - Russo and Gerwirtz were his closest associates. There's a big difference in producing The Titan Games and producing a successful wrestling company.


Talent is easy. He can poach from basically anywhere that’s not WWE. Talent would be lining up around the corner to work for him. TV rights are why he would do this. Why would he buy a twice defunct football league?

As Raw goes up, AEW goes up. As Raw goes down, AEW goes down. The wrestling audience is largely the same. If the bottom falls out for the WWE, it falls out for AEW too.


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Raw went up against first round of NFL last year & saw minimal drop. Hard to imagine college game being greater competition


You are being disingenuous. RAW has gone up against the NFL (Monday Night Football) for decades, and does see a drop. But, there is quite a bit of difference between a regular season game (I will forgive your verbiage since you are not in the US. The first round? That makes no sense. Do you mean preseason?) of the NFL and here I was not even talking about the NFL but NCAA New Years bowl games, which have been a staple for a long time, and have been for many years now the semifinal games leading up to the national championship game. You cannot compare that to just the weekly games.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

I thought for sure they'd hit a million or more for the Brodie tribute episode. Kinda disappointing they didn't.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Showstopper said:


> I thought for sure they'd hit a million or more for the Brodie tribute episode. Kinda disappointing they didn't.


it really doesn’t matter


----------



## The Wood

The thing about tribute shows is that they can be perceived as very disruptive. They aren’t mind-numbing entertainment. Some people don’t want to think about death; don’t want to explain it to their kids, etc. It’s also heaps awkward if the kid enjoys being a mark and doesn’t understand why people are mourning this evil cult leader.

And there are people who think everything on wrestling is bullshit. I guarantee you that there were _some_ people who thought this was some weird angle and half-expected Brodie Lee to show up at the end and attack someone. People used to swear the blood was fake in wrestling and that “they are all friends” (way before fraternisation across face/heel lines was okay).

The Owen Hart tribute back in the day for mixed responses as well. Even some people in the loop can’t shake this feeling of exploitation.

You would get some people who would go out of their way to watch a tribute episode to a wrestler, and you’ll get others who purposely give that show a miss.


----------



## The Wood

By the way, the 977k number for AEW was correct. 586k for NXT. It’s the same 1.5 million or so fans watching.

When you get people telling you about AEW’s growth, keep in mind that they are just swishing the same fans around.


----------



## Ozell Gray

I said it a couple of days ago that 900k is their max while 800k is their average so expecting them to get 1 million viewers was unrealistic. 900k is more realistic than anything.


----------



## The Wood

Ozell Gray said:


> I said it a couple of days ago that 900k is their max while 800k is their average so expecting them to get 1 million viewers was unrealistic. 900k is more realistic than anything.


People keep aiming for this, but it is pretty unrealistic to expect them to do more than 1 million consistently and has been off the table for a long time.

For AEW to do 1 million, NXT would need to sink to about 500k regularly. The shows are not that far apart in terms of quality, and the WWE can always do _something_ to spice up NXT.

It’s more likely that more of those <1.6 million fans start to generally tune out and the number drops to, say, 1.4 million and both shows are doing 700k or 600k and 800k than NXT is doing half of what AEW is doing.


----------



## RapShepard

The Wood said:


> People keep aiming for this, but it is pretty unrealistic to expect them to do more than 1 million consistently and has been off the table for a long time.
> 
> For AEW to do 1 million, NXT would need to sink to about 500k regularly. The shows are not that far apart in terms of quality, and the WWE can always do _something_ to spice up NXT.
> 
> It’s more likely that more of those


The WWE would have to take NXT off the network and give it a better looking aesthetic. It frankly looks minor league compares to Dynamite, despite it having more access to money than Dynamite


----------



## 3venflow




----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> Yeah I am sure the Torch gets ratings before companies whose business it is to get and report on ratings.
> 
> In before the number is a bit different Monday and Cousin Wade says "looks like they adjusted the number because of blah blah"


Looks like Cousin Wade either correctly guessed numbers right down to final digit or he gets ratings before companies whose business it is to get and report on ratings (actually get it from same source but showbuzz was on break). 
At least you learnt something


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Looks like Cousin Wade either correctly guessed numbers right down to final digit or he gets ratings before companies whose business it is to get and report on ratings (actually get it from same source but showbuzz was on break).
> At least you learnt something


I am the first to give credit when someone reports something that turns out to be accurate, so congrats to him. It would be nice if they would start cutting out all the stuff that turns out not to be true. Might improve their reputation.


----------



## Aedubya

NXT not get in top 50?


----------



## 3venflow

Aedubya said:


> NXT not get in top 50?


NXT finished 58th (586k, record low 0.12 18-49 demo).


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> You are being disingenuous. RAW has gone up against the NFL (Monday Night Football) for decades, and does see a drop. But, there is quite a bit of difference between a regular season game (I will forgive your verbiage since you are not in the US. The first round? That makes no sense. Do you mean preseason?) of the NFL and here I was not even talking about the NFL but NCAA New Years bowl games, which have been a staple for a long time, and have been for many years now the semifinal games leading up to the national championship game. You cannot compare that to just the weekly games.


This is a condescending post with no substance. Opening game of NFL draws large audience but had little impact on raw this season despite raw being down all year. Elsewhere, somebody blamed a low raw rating one week on a competing NFL game yet on closer inspection NFL also dropped numbers.
There appears to be very little crossover with football fans this year, unless you want to credit dynamite which came up against a 5.7 million viewer college game this week - albeit not on level of Fridays.


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> I am the first to give credit when someone reports something that turns out to be accurate, so congrats to him. It would be nice if they would start cutting out all the stuff that turns out not to be true. Might improve their reputation.


Funny somebody who makes a big deal about ratings sources can't tell difference between a reputable one & a bad one


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Funny somebody who makes a big deal about ratings sources can't tell difference between a reputable one & a bad one


Do we really need to go into PW Torch credibility issues? I gave him credit for being right this time.


----------



## La Parka

Dynamite competing against the “Dukes mayo” bowl is definitely comparable to Raw competing with MNF


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> This is a condescending post with no substance. Opening game of NFL draws large audience but had little impact on raw this season despite raw being down all year. Elsewhere, somebody blamed a low raw rating one week on a competing NFL game yet on closer inspection NFL also dropped numbers.
> There appears to be very little crossover with football fans this year, unless you want to credit dynamite which came up against a 5.7 million viewer college game this week - albeit not on level of Fridays.


There is no comparing regular season games to the Rose Bowl and Sugar Bowl games. The college bowl games on New Year's day have been a tradition for a long time. Dynamite also did very well last week. I do not believe I have criticized that episode at all.


----------



## Prized Fighter

La Parka said:


> Dynamite competing against the “Dukes mayo” bowl is definitely comparable to Raw competing with MNF


Dynamite went up against the Cotton Bowl at 8 pm (EST). The Mayo bowl was at noon. Cotton Bowl had 5.7 million viewers. Much closer to the 7 million viewers that MNF had. Both the Cotton Bowl and MNF were blow outs.

Granted even in times when football isn't on, Raw still hovers around their same 1.6 to 1.9 million viewers. So I don't know that it makes as much difference as some would think. This week AEW went up by 200,000 viewers going up directly against a big bowl game. It's not grown breaking, but it does show some consistency when a big sporting event is on.


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> There is no comparing regular season games to the Rose Bowl and Sugar Bowl games. The college bowl games on New Year's day have been a tradition for a long time. Dynamite also did very well last week. I do not believe I have criticized that episode at all.


Let's compare anyway; Last year Rose Bowl did 16 million while Sugar Bowl did 10 million. Big regular season NFL games have gotten over 15 million this season. Numerous times MNF has exceeded 10 million.









NFL TV Ratings page


NFL TV ratings for the 2020 season. Will be updated as the season progresses. Previous NFL TV ratings: 2019, 2018,




www.sportsmediawatch.com


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> Do we really need to go into PW Torch credibility issues? I gave him credit for being right this time.


Your act of being somebody who follows ratings closely to point of keeping your own spreadsheets has come unstuck quickly.

Showbuzz don't conduct surveys but merely subscribe to Nielsen to receive numbers - so does Wade. Showbuzz was on break so there was nobody to put out report - Wade tweeted numbers himself.

We all get our information from Showbuzz or Wade (the later particularly for quarters) & if not then through Bryan Alvarez or a news site who source those two anyway.

That's why your demands of a survey of 10's of thousands (?!) was ridiculous unless you also subscribe to Nielsen - which you don't.

If this board scrutinized properly you wouldn't be here, but instead you remain & have made a fool of yourself.


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Your act of being somebody who follows ratings closely to point of keeping your own spreadsheets has come unstuck quickly.
> 
> Showbuzz don't conduct surveys but merely subscribe to Nielsen to receive numbers - so does Wade. Showbuzz was on break so there was nobody to put out report - Wade tweeted numbers himself.
> 
> We all get our information from Showbuzz or Wade (the later particularly for quarters) & if not then through Bryan Alvarez or a news site who source those two anyway.
> 
> That's why your demands of a survey of 10's of thousands (?!) was ridiculous unless you also subscribe to Nielsen - which you don't.
> 
> If this board scrutinized properly you wouldn't be here, but instead you remain & have made a fool of yourself.


You are moving the goal posts. I said it was questionable to believe dirt sheets without evidence. This time Wade was right. How many times do the dirt sheets get it wrong? All the time. So i am not just going to take one person's word on something and neither should anyone.

So now people who question dirt sheets or have different opinions than you should be banned? What kind of site are you trying to create here?

Any by the way, nothing has become unstuck, the ratings I posted during the summer were accurate. Point out where they were not.


----------



## Randy Lahey

977,000 is a great number. Very strong demo as well. AEW has to be thrilled with that


----------



## Seafort

RapShepard said:


> Answer the question you were provided, when has AEW Dynamite got a higher rating and viewership than an episode of Raw that aired in the same week?


The bigger point is what RAW started 2020 at, and where they finished. Then compare that to AEW. Where did they start, and where did they finish. RAW shed 25% of its audience in 12 months. Dynamite stayed flat. That’s a win in an eroding cable television market.


----------



## Ozell Gray

The bigger point is that Dynamite started off with an average of 911k viewers in 2019 and and it dropped down to 800k in 2020 so how much will Dynamite lose this year?


----------



## RapShepard

Seafort said:


> The bigger point is what RAW started 2020 at, and where they finished. Then compare that to AEW. Where did they start, and where did they finish. RAW shed 25% of its audience in 12 months. Dynamite stayed flat. That’s a win in an eroding cable television market.


They did well during the pandemic, but with the stagnation eventually its going to go one way or the other. Unless they find a few good stories that way is unfortunately likely to be down. Though they got some potential with the Kenny story if they do it right.


----------



## zaz102

Ozell Gray said:


> The bigger point is that Dynamite started off with an average of 911k viewers in 2019 and and it dropped down to 800k in 2020 so how much will Dynamite lose this year?


If you look at the trends it actually looks like-


Big pop for first month (I don't think this is unusual in TV) and then drops
Rises until pandemic restrictions then huge drop
Steadily rising and back to pre-COVID rating and actually doing better in demo.

Clearly, the numbers have been volatile, but I would be more surprised if it went down rather than steady or up based on the trends.


----------



## Ozell Gray

zaz102 said:


> If you look at the trends it actually looks like-
> 
> 
> Big pop for first month (I don't think this is unusual in TV) and then drops
> Rises until pandemic restrictions then huge drop
> Steadily rising and back to pre-COVID rating and actually doing better in demo.
> 
> Clearly, the numbers have been volatile, but I would be more surprised if it went down rather than steady or up based on the trends.




Dynamite's average viewership and ratings for 2019 is 911k viewers with 0.38 rating

Dynamite's average viewership and ratings for 2020 is 810k viewers with 0.31 rating. 


So Dynamite has lost over 101k viewers and 0.07 in the ratings in a year. How much will it lose this year? Based on "trends" going off of your logic then the logical thing to expect is for Dynamite to continue to lose viewers. Dynamite hasn't "held steady" in anything but losing viewers so Im expecting the viewership and ratings to drop more this year.


----------



## zaz102

Ozell Gray said:


> Dynamite's average viewership and ratings for 2019 is 911k viewers with 0.38 rating
> 
> Dynamite's average viewership and ratings for 2020 is 810k viewers with 0.31 rating.
> 
> 
> So Dynamite has lost over 101k viewers and 0.07 in the ratings in a year. How much will it lose this year? Based on "trends" going off of your logic then the logical thing to expect is for Dynamite to continue to lose viewers. Dynamite hasn't "held steady" in anything but losing viewers so Im expecting the viewership and ratings to drop more this year.


Yeah, but that's not really a fair comparison.

For 2019, you're counting the initial pop and you're only talking about three months.

For 2020, you also need to take COVID into account. That had a huge impact on Dynamite.

In fact, if you do a year over year comparison, you can see how they're doing better in the 2/3 months if you want to a more direct comparison which again I don't think is that useful right now.


----------



## Ozell Gray

zaz102 said:


> Yeah, but that's not really a fair comparison.
> 
> For 2019, you're counting the initial pop and you're only talking about three months.


That’s not how numbers work. You don’t get to exclude the numbers and include the numbers to fit your agenda. You include ALL numbers to get the accurate numbers which I did and it shows that Dynamite dropped.



> Yeah, but that's not really a fair comparison.
> 
> For 2019, you're counting the initial pop and you're only talking about three months.
> 
> For 2020, you also need to take COVID into account. That had a huge impact on Dynamite.
> 
> In fact, if you do a year over year comparison, you can see how they're doing better in the 2/3 months if you want to a more direct comparison which again I don't think is that useful right now.


Except Dynamite had already lost viewers before COVID-19 happened. Pre-pandemic Dynamite’s average viewership from January to March 11 was 884k viewers which is a drop from the 911k viewers it did in 2019 so any which way you look at it Dynamite lost viewers even before the pandemic started.

As a matter of fact if you want comparison then here’s the breakdown:

2019 911k viewers

Pre-pandemic 884k viewers

All of 2020 810k viewers

So Dynamite based off of what has happened to it since it’s been on the air will decline more this year. Year over AEW went from 911k viewers to 810k viewers and if you want to use COVID-19 as an excuse then then they still dropped pre-pandemic from 911k to 884k. Dynamite isn’t growing however you decide to look at the numbers and no amount of spinning the numbers will change the actual numbers from showing the show is on the decline.


----------



## bdon

Ozell Gray said:


> That’s not how numbers work. You don’t get to exclude the numbers and include the numbers to fit your agenda. You include ALL numbers to get the accurate numbers which I did and it shows that Dynamite dropped.
> 
> 
> 
> Except Dynamite had already lost viewers before COVID-19 happened. Pre-pandemic Dynamite’s average viewership from January to March 11 was 884k viewers which is a drop from the 911k viewers it did in 2019 so any which way you look at it Dynamite lost viewers even before the pandemic started.
> 
> As a matter of fact if you want comparison then here’s the breakdown:
> 
> 2019 911k viewers
> 
> Pre-pandemic 884k viewers
> 
> All of 2020 810k viewers
> 
> So Dynamite based off of what has happened to it since it’s been on the air will decline more this year. Year over AEW went from 911k viewers to 810k viewers and if you want to use COVID-19 as an excuse then then they still dropped pre-pandemic from 911k to 884k. Dynamite isn’t growing however you decide to look at the numbers and no amount of spinning the numbers will change the actual numbers from showing the show is on the decline.


The numbers in 2020 have been much better in the non-summer months that focused so heavily on Cody and Jericho.

You know...because those guys fucking suck and are the epitome of WWE bullshit.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

3venflow said:


> What makes you think he's gonna do that? He's the producer for ten upcoming movies, is producing one right now, and has plenty of acting gigs coming up. He's also hinted at getting into politics. I think a wrestling promotion will be far from his mind in 2021. The only Rock we'll see on NBC in 2021 will be Young Rock the comedy series.


Dont forget hes relaunching the xfl too

I doubt Rock launches his own promotion that's just wishing lol .


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I don't want to go too far off topic but I've said in the past that if another major promotion is launched it will likely be away from the United States.

I recently learned that a million people here in Australia have or currently engage with wrestling related stuff on Facebook alone, if you could find a network to back wrestling on free to air television with significant budget that could very well be your alternative. Get Rove McManus to host it (Popular talk show host and gigantic wrestling fan) and have a few shitty B-List celebrities on mixed in with Rob Van Dam and a few American guys that AEW and WWE don't want and you could have something pretty exciting.

Lots of territory here in Australia alone but also have many fans in New Zealand and you're relatively close to South Asia and the island nations.

A man can dream.


----------



## zaz102

Ozell Gray said:


> That’s not how numbers work. You don’t get to exclude the numbers and include the numbers to fit your agenda. You include ALL numbers to get the accurate numbers which I did and it shows that Dynamite dropped.
> 
> 
> 
> Except Dynamite had already lost viewers before COVID-19 happened. Pre-pandemic Dynamite’s average viewership from January to March 11 was 884k viewers which is a drop from the 911k viewers it did in 2019 so any which way you look at it Dynamite lost viewers even before the pandemic started.
> 
> As a matter of fact if you want comparison then here’s the breakdown:
> 
> 2019 911k viewers
> 
> Pre-pandemic 884k viewers
> 
> All of 2020 810k viewers
> 
> So Dynamite based off of what has happened to it since it’s been on the air will decline more this year. Year over AEW went from 911k viewers to 810k viewers and if you want to use COVID-19 as an excuse then then they still dropped pre-pandemic from 911k to 884k. Dynamite isn’t growing however you decide to look at the numbers and no amount of spinning the numbers will change the actual numbers from showing the show is on the decline.


If you're trying to make a point that 2021 will have less viewers than 2020, then context is important to guess where they're going.

Its not like I know how 2020 would go, but if you're down I'm down to make a gentleman's bet.

I'll bet JAN - JUN 2021 rating average will be higher than JAN - JUN 2020. You can pick the stipulation (change profile pictureto winners choice for a time period, change user name to winners choice, etc.)

Deal?


----------



## DaSlacker

Ozell Gray said:


> That’s not how numbers work. You don’t get to exclude the numbers and include the numbers to fit your agenda. You include ALL numbers to get the accurate numbers which I did and it shows that Dynamite dropped.
> 
> 
> 
> Except Dynamite had already lost viewers before COVID-19 happened. Pre-pandemic Dynamite’s average viewership from January to March 11 was 884k viewers which is a drop from the 911k viewers it did in 2019 so any which way you look at it Dynamite lost viewers even before the pandemic started.
> 
> As a matter of fact if you want comparison then here’s the breakdown:
> 
> 2019 911k viewers
> 
> Pre-pandemic 884k viewers
> 
> All of 2020 810k viewers
> 
> So Dynamite based off of what has happened to it since it’s been on the air will decline more this year. Year over AEW went from 911k viewers to 810k viewers and if you want to use COVID-19 as an excuse then then they still dropped pre-pandemic from 911k to 884k. Dynamite isn’t growing however you decide to look at the numbers and no amount of spinning the numbers will change the actual numbers from showing the show is on the decline.


Not so much an agenda as looking at it from every angle. Wrestling or sports entertainment, particularly on cable, has been hurtling towards the niche for years. The premiere episode was likely to have an artificial boost in the same that the Smackdown premiere and Christmas Day episodes had. WWE NXT on Syfy started with 1.7 milllion viewers before settling at 1.3 million. WWE NXT on USA dropped from its initial 1.1 million viewers. Even things like Titan Games and American Gladiators 2008 started with relatively high ratings. 

Always good to see data with and without potential outliers. Then you can get a more accurate reading of the audience size.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

This marks the 6th consecutive week that Dynamite beat their viewership and demo from the year before. Hats off to the crew. Astonishing work.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

TKO Wrestling said:


> This marks the 6th consecutive week that Dynamite beat their viewership and demo from the year before. Hats off to the crew. Astonishing work.


Which is surely the most accurate metric to quantify growth (although the numbers at the start of lockdown in 2020 will be less of a yardstick and should be comfortably improved upon). Well done AEW.


----------



## wrasslin_casual

Why are PPV buy rates so low?


----------



## 10gizzle

Ah shit. Here we go again.

It was nice not hearing the same god damned thing over and over again for a minute.


----------



## Klitschko

wrasslin_casual said:


> Why are PPV buy rates so low?


Mmmm, they are not?


----------



## 10gizzle

The Wood said:


> When you get people telling you about AEW’s growth, keep in mind that they are just swishing the same fans around.


You're doing the exact same shit those people are doing.

Talk about growth, how about the 200K AEW gets in Brazil, a notoriously poor wrestling market, literally airing at midnight. Is that not growth?

How about the fact that they've been consistently beating all 3 of WWE's shows combined in the UK while being on a 2 day delay?

But, but, but - those don't matter right? It's all about the ratings in the USA that can be measured. Right?

I dont think you're qualified to opine on what a companies growth entails as clearly, all you're doing is looking at the big number go up and down so you can come in and say I told you so every week like clockwork.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

wrasslin_casual said:


> Why are PPV buy rates so low?


They are drawing the highest non WWE buyrates since WCW early 2000.


----------



## 10gizzle

TKO Wrestling said:


> They are drawing the highest non WWE buyrates since WCW early 2000.


No. This 15 month old wrestling promotion being run by rookies should be perfect. No mistakes allowed.


----------



## .christopher.

10gizzle said:


> Ah shit. Here we go again.
> 
> It was nice not hearing the same god damned thing over and over again for a minute.


No, your circle jerking wasn't nice.

Sensible posters speaking sense is nice.


----------



## 10gizzle

.christopher. said:


> No, your circle jerking wasn't nice.
> 
> Sensible posters speaking sense is nice.


Oh I agree. Sensibility is crucial.

Not sure what circle jerk you're referring to though?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

10gizzle said:


> No. This 15 month old wrestling promotion being run by rookies should be perfect. No mistakes allowed.


not just perfect - they have no excuse NOT to beat WWE 🤦‍♂️


----------



## 10gizzle

LifeInCattleClass said:


> not just perfect - they have no excuse NOT to beat WWE 🤦‍♂️


I really couldn't imagine spending every day, week after week, making negative comments about anything without getting paid for it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

10gizzle said:


> I really couldn't imagine spending every day, week after week, making negative comments about anything without getting paid for it.


it must be like having a call centre job.... as a hobby


----------



## Ozell Gray

DaSlacker said:


> Not so much an agenda as looking at it from every angle. Wrestling or sports entertainment, particularly on cable, has been hurtling towards the niche for years. The premiere episode was likely to have an artificial boost in the same that the Smackdown premiere and Christmas Day episodes had. WWE NXT on Syfy started with 1.7 milllion viewers before settling at 1.3 million. WWE NXT on USA dropped from its initial 1.1 million viewers. Even things like Titan Games and American Gladiators 2008 started with relatively high ratings.
> 
> Always good to see data with and without potential outliers. Then you can get a more accurate reading of the audience size.


I'm talking about the average viewership which you take into account all the numbers even the debut and they show Dynamite was dropping viewers before and after the pandemic so the pandemic can't be used as an excuse for why the show's numbers have dropped.


----------



## Ozell Gray

zaz102 said:


> If you're trying to make a point that 2021 will have less viewers than 2020, then context is important to guess where they're going.
> 
> Its not like I know how 2020 would go, but if you're down I'm down to make a gentleman's bet.
> 
> I'll bet JAN - JUN 2021 rating average will be higher than JAN - JUN 2020. You can pick the stipulation (change profile pictureto winners choice for a time period, change user name to winners choice, etc.)
> 
> Deal?


No let's bet that the average numbers throughout the entire year for 2921 is lower than 2020. Thats a deal I'll take. 

Do we have a deal?


----------



## zaz102

Ozell Gray said:


> No let's bet that the average numbers throughout the entire year for 2921 is lower than 2020. Thats a deal I'll take.
> 
> Do we have a deal?


What's wrong with the initial deal? You seem very confident numbers have been going down originally.


----------



## Ozell Gray

zaz102 said:


> What's wrong with the initial deal? You seem very confident numbers have been going down originally.


Your deal isn't ideal because it's disingenuous. I want a deal about year over year meaning 2021 vs 2020 numbers not 2021 months vs 2020 months.

The numbers were going down and showed the average numbers throughout the timeframes and all of them showed drops. 

Let's do the deal where we compare all of 2021 vs 2020.

Do we have a deal?


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Ozell Gray said:


> Your deal isn't ideal because it's disingenuous. I want a deal about year over year meaning 2021 vs 2020 numbers not 2021 months vs 2020 months.
> 
> The numbers were going down and showed the average numbers throughout the timeframes and all of them showed drops.
> 
> Let's do the deal where we compare all of 2021 vs 2020.
> 
> Do we have a deal?


Haven't you been comparing a few months of 2019 (including initial bump) with the whole of 2020 (mostly during pandemic)?


----------



## zaz102

Ozell Gray said:


> Your deal isn't ideal because it's disingenuous. I want a deal about year over year meaning 2021 vs 2020 numbers not 2021 months vs 2020 months.
> 
> The numbers were going down and showed the average numbers throughout the timeframes and all of them showed drops.
> 
> Let's do the deal where we compare all of 2021 vs 2020.
> 
> Do we have a deal?


My bad, I meant the 6 month average. Not month by month average. If that was a misunderstanding, I'd rather ro 6 months because its quicker.

I'd still do the deal for a year, but not sure why you wouldn't do the 6 month deal if you think the pandemic is an excuse and numbers have been trending down.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pentagon Senior said:


> Haven't you been comparing a few months of 2019 (including initial bump) with the whole of 2020 (mostly during pandemic)?


No I compared all of 2019 to all of 2020 to give an accurate representation of the numbers.



zaz102 said:


> My bad, I meant the 6 month average. Not month by month average. If that was a misunderstanding, I'd rather ro 6 months because its quicker.
> 
> I'd still do the deal for a year, but not sure why you wouldn't do the 6 month deal if you think the pandemic is an excuse and numbers have been trending down.


The whole year is more ideal because you get better comparisons compared to doing 6 months or so comparisons. 6 months or so comparisons are misleading because those are cherry-picked timeframes. 

The numbers were going down before the pandemic and the pandemic has been used as an excuse for the more dramatic fall the show has taken.

2019 911k

Pre-pandemic (January to March 11) 884k

All of 2020 810k

As you can see the numbers dropped from January to March 11 (Pre-pandemic) and continued to snowball throughout the entire year which brought the average to 810k viewers for the entire year.

Do we have a deal where we’re going to compare the year 2021 to 2020?


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Ozell Gray said:


> No I compared all of 2019 to all of 2020 to give an accurate representation of the numbers.


All of 2019?


----------



## zaz102

Ozell Gray said:


> No I compared all of 2019 to all of 2020 to give an accurate representation of the numbers.
> 
> 
> 
> The whole year is more ideal because you get better comparisons compared to doing 6 months or so comparisons. 6 months or so comparisons are misleading because those are cherry-picked timeframes.
> 
> The numbers were going down before the pandemic and the pandemic has been used as an excuse for the more dramatic fall the show has taken.
> 
> 2019 911k
> 
> Pre-pandemic (January to March 11) 884k
> 
> All of 2020 810k
> 
> As you can see the numbers dropped from January to March 11 (Pre-pandemic) and continued to snowball throughout the entire year which brought the average to 810k viewers for the entire year.
> 
> Do we have a deal where we’re going to compare the year 2021 to 2020?


Yep! Sounds good depending on the stipulations.

Also, I'll post the trends to show you where I'm coming from.


----------



## zaz102

zaz102 said:


> Yep! Sounds good depending on the stipulations.
> 
> Also, I'll post the trends to show you where I'm coming from.


Here are the trends I'm talking about. These trends are based on monthly averages. I highlighted what I believe were outliers (Initial Pop & COVID) in the Dynamite Viewership trend. I believe our arguments are pretty much whether the data circled are outliers or not.

I also have Viewership (Pre-COVID minus Initial Pop) and Viewership (Post-COVID) to show what viewership looks like when I take out what I consider the outliers.

I personally think it would be too coincidental that their highest high is during the first month (OCT ' 19: 105.7M) and their lowest low is right after the pandemic hit (APR '20: 697.8K). Those are also their biggest drops in ratings (OCT to NOV: -223K and MAR to APR: -158K). Otherwise, they have slightly trended positively and hovered in the mid-700Ks to low-900Ks.

Bottom line is that's why I believe that since I view those as outliers, that's why I believe 2021 will be better than 2020. We will see though. Should be fun!

Dynamite Viewership
Dynamite-Viewership-Outliers-Highlighted

Dynamite Viewership Pre-COVID
Dynamite-Viewership-Pre-COVID

Dynamite Post-COVID
Dynamite-Viewership-Post-COVID


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pentagon Senior said:


> All of 2019?


Yeah all the shows of 2019.



zaz102 said:


> Yep! Sounds good depending on the stipulations.
> 
> Also, I'll post the trends to show you where I'm coming from.


Ok.



zaz102 said:


> Here are the trends I'm talking about. These trends are based on monthly averages. I highlighted what I believe were outliers (Initial Pop & COVID) in the Dynamite Viewership trend. I believe our arguments are pretty much whether the data circled are outliers or not.
> 
> I also have Viewership (Pre-COVID minus Initial Pop) and Viewership (Post-COVID) to show what viewership looks like when I take out what I consider the outliers.
> 
> I personally think it would be too coincidental that their highest high is during the first month (OCT ' 19: 105.7M) and their lowest low is right after the pandemic hit (APR '20: 697.8K). Those are also their biggest drops in ratings (OCT to NOV: -223K and MAR to APR: -158K). Otherwise, they have slightly trended positively and hovered in the mid-700Ks to low-900Ks.
> 
> Bottom line is that's why I believe that since I view those as outliers, that's why I believe 2021 will be better than 2020. We will see though. Should be fun!
> 
> Dynamite Viewership
> Dynamite-Viewership-Outliers-Highlighted
> 
> Dynamite Viewership Pre-COVID
> Dynamite-Viewership-Pre-COVID
> 
> Dynamite Post-COVID
> Dynamite-Viewership-Post-COVID


You can't exclude outliers though. Numbers doesn't work that way. You have to include all the numbers to get a better understanding of what you're looking at. If Raw's numbers increased for 6 months but the average was down from the year before then the monthly numbers are meaningless since the average numbers are the numbers that matters. Dynamite's has been dropping and I believe will continue to drop this year.


----------



## zaz102

Ozell Gray said:


> Yeah all the shows of 2019.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok.
> 
> 
> 
> You can't exclude outliers though. Numbers doesn't work that way. You have to include all the numbers to get a better understanding of what you're looking at. If Raw's numbers increased for 6 months but the average was down from the year before then the monthly numbers are meaningless since the average numbers are the numbers that matters. Dynamite's has been dropping and I believe will continue to drop this year.


Yeah, ill agree to disagree.

For example, I think sports had a really bad year last year of ratings due to the pandemic. I think it's more than fair to argue that the pandemic had something to do with it and they can bounce back.

Same with a series premiere. If you start with a high number and then drops off and stays steady for next 3 episodes, I think one could guess it'll stay steady for next few episodes rather than keep trending down.

Either way, I think that's pretty much the crux of the argument/bet. Thoughts on the stipulation?


----------



## The Wood

RapShepard said:


> The WWE would have to take NXT off the network and give it a better looking aesthetic. It frankly looks minor league compares to Dynamite, despite it having more access to money than Dynamite


I think they accepted their hand with the Full Sail shows. The travelling audience was already being eroded by AEW. I don’t think it really bothers them that a show looking like that gets slightly trounced by a show with as much effort in it as Dynamite.

They’re waiting for AEW to fatigue. 



Pippen94 said:


> Looks like Cousin Wade either correctly guessed numbers right down to final digit or he gets ratings before companies whose business it is to get and report on ratings (actually get it from same source but showbuzz was on break).
> At least you learnt something


Ratings only really matter to wrestling reporters these days.



Seafort said:


> The bigger point is what RAW started 2020 at, and where they finished. Then compare that to AEW. Where did they start, and where did they finish. RAW shed 25% of its audience in 12 months. Dynamite stayed flat. That’s a win in an eroding cable television market.


I think that leads you down a false path. WWE has a much larger audience that is dropping out because they’ve got that audience to spare. AEW is mostly hardcore fans that represent the bottom of wrestling fandom (for the moment). AEW is not guaranteed to stay steady.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

10gizzle said:


> Oh I agree. Sensibility is crucial.
> 
> Not sure what circle jerk you're referring to though?


If you don't share their version of the 'facts' you are in a circle jerk.


----------



## Ozell Gray

zaz102 said:


> Yeah, ill agree to disagree.
> 
> For example, I think sports had a really bad year last year of ratings due to the pandemic. I think it's more than fair to argue that the pandemic had something to do with it and they can bounce back.
> 
> Same with a series premiere. If you start with a high number and then drops off and stays steady for next 3 episodes, I think one could guess it'll stay steady for next few episodes rather than keep trending down.
> 
> Either way, I think that's pretty much the crux of the argument/bet. Thoughts on the stipulation?


The pandemic messed up other sports and those sports ratings were much higher but AEW's were already going down so the pandemic can't be used for them. They simply just lost viewers.

Also I don't like the 6 month comparison because I want year over year comparison because that gives a more accurate representation of how AEW's doing at keeping viewers.


----------



## Seafort

The Wood said:


> I think they accepted their hand with the Full Sail shows. The travelling audience was already being eroded by AEW. I don’t think it really bothers them that a show looking like that gets slightly trounced by a show with as much effort in it as Dynamite.
> 
> They’re waiting for AEW to fatigue.
> 
> 
> 
> Ratings only really matter to wrestling reporters these days.
> 
> 
> 
> I think that leads you down a false path. WWE has a much larger audience that is dropping out because they’ve got that audience to spare. AEW is mostly hardcore fans that represent the bottom of wrestling fandom (for the moment). AEW is not guaranteed to stay steady.


Agreed in that there is no guarantee to stay steady. They’ll have to work hard to maintain their audience, let alone grow it. Any slacking off will lead to quick audience erosion, as they have a direct competitor eager to Hoover up their viewers.

AEW’s audience is interesting. It’s made up in large part of former WWE viewers who are fairly strong wrestling fans, and hardcore wrestling fans in general. The former will largely stay with AEW and is their base, the latter provides most of the weekly swings. AEW’s hope is to capture more lapsed fans and some casuals.

RAW is now mostly hardcore WWE brand loyalists. But even these are slowly drifting away. Because they have no direct competition, the company does not try as hard to innovate (even though they work very hard overall) and have to rely on things like Legends Night to try to grow their audience. But it’s always a temporary boost and gradually the viewership decreases.


----------



## bdon

Ozell Gray said:


> The pandemic messed up other sports and those sports ratings were much higher but AEW's were already going down so the pandemic can't be used for them. They simply just lost viewers.
> 
> Also I don't like the 6 month comparison because I want year over year comparison because that gives a more accurate representation of how AEW's doing at keeping viewers.


Then why are you using year over year comparison for a show that only had 3 months last year?

But I do agree. 2021 should tell the tale.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Ozell Gray said:


> Yeah all the shows of 2019.


So comparing 3 month of 2019 v 12 months 2020. The former containing the initial bump, the latter containing 9 months of a global pandemic. Not sure you could get a more skewed analysis or way of judging AEW success. But you know that of course and that's why you do it. 



Ozell Gray said:


> Dynamite's average viewership and ratings for 2019 is 911k viewers with 0.38 rating
> 
> Dynamite's average viewership and ratings for 2020 is 810k viewers with 0.31 rating.
> 
> 
> So Dynamite has lost over 101k viewers and 0.07 in the ratings in a year....


But then... 



Ozell Gray said:


> Your deal isn't ideal because it's disingenuous. I want a deal about year over year meaning 2021 vs 2020 numbers...


It's you whose clearly being disingenuous by comparing two very different samples, ignoring extenuating factors and yet demanding a full years comparison in the next breath (despite your absurd analysis before hand). 



bdon said:


> Then why are you using year over year comparison for a show that only had 3 months last year?


Because it skews results to make AEW look like they're failing 



bdon said:


> But I do agree. 2021 should tell the tale.


Yes 2021 will give us a good idea of where they're heading 



Ozell Gray said:


> The pandemic messed up other sports and those sports ratings were much higher but AEW's were already going down so the pandemic can't be used for them. They simply just lost viewers.


So we factor in the global pandemic for other ratings but don't for AEW. 

Lol sounds legit



The Wood said:


> I think that leads you down a false path. WWE has a much larger audience that is dropping out because they’ve got that audience to spare. AEW is mostly hardcore fans that represent the bottom of wrestling fandom (for the moment). AEW is not guaranteed to stay steady.


Yeah I'm sure WWE don't mind losing a notable chunk of their viewership year on year because 'they have enough to spare'.

The analysis on this page is top level!



ripcitydisciple said:


> If you don't share their version of the 'facts' you are in a circle jerk.


It's hilarious isn't it? And these guys aren't trolls either - that is the official line (scoff)


----------



## The Wood

AEW is not growing its audience. All you need to look at are the spikes for special shows, which takes them to 900k viewers only for them to drop back down.

You don’t need trends, or arguments about how much a pandemic should help or hurt (and yes, there are reasons it could help). You just need some common sense. That number stays in the same range and splits the same audience with NXT, depending on how cold or lukewarm they are.

Calling it a war is projecting excitement into the conflict for the sake of a narrative or news. They’re fighting over table scraps.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> AEW is not growing its audience. All you need to look at are the spikes for special shows, which takes them to 900k viewers only for them to drop back down.
> 
> You don’t need trends, or arguments about how much a pandemic should help or hurt (and yes, there are reasons it could help). You just need some common sense. That number stays in the same range and splits the same audience with NXT, depending on how cold or lukewarm they are.
> 
> Calling it a war is projecting excitement into the conflict for the sake of a narrative or news. They’re fighting over table scraps.


NFL, NBA, etc all are seeing ratings dropping.

Are they fighting for table scraps as well, @The Wood? I am curious if you just think everyone is hurting for business, or if you only cast this death knell upon the wrestling industry.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> AEW is not growing its audience. All you need to look at are the spikes for special shows, which takes them to 900k viewers only for them to drop back down.


I'd agree in respect of US cable viewers. No growth but they've maintained levels during their first full year with a pandemic. Bucking the trend in that respect. 

2021 should paint a clearer picture. 

There has been international growth though. 



The Wood said:


> You don’t need trends, or arguments about how much a pandemic should help or hurt (and yes, there are reasons it could help).


Lol what - have other wrestling promotions been benefitting from the pandemic?


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> NFL, NBA, etc all are seeing ratings dropping.
> 
> Are they fighting for table scraps as well, @The Wood? I am curious if you just think everyone is hurting for business, or if you only cast this death knell upon the wrestling industry.


Are they seeing their popularity dropping? I don’t follow US sports. A lot of Australian sports have been at risk of dying, so it’s not unreasonable to think that US ones are too.

Or are they going to other mediums? Are there apps to watch sports? I know that’s how most people watch over here. What else is AEW on besides TNT? What metric would you use to suggest they are growing?

It’s the same audience almost every week. The wrestling audience has been scared away and it’s only getting more hardcore and more niche.

I actually did watch my first NFL game this year, because wrestling is making me look for other things. And I am the most wrestling obsessed person I know.


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> I'd agree in respect of US cable viewers. No growth but they've maintained levels during their first full year with a pandemic. Bucking the trend in that respect.
> 
> 2021 should paint a clearer picture.
> 
> There has been international growth though.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol what - have other wrestling promotions been benefitting from the pandemic?


Doesn’t matter if others have or haven’t. Just because no one in a room full of idiots can’t figure out a Rubik’s cube doesn’t mean it’s unsolvable.

To be honest, I don’t know. How’s New Japan been doing? They seem way more reliant on their gates than promotions the size of WWE and AEW are (the two companies that could have really used this opportunity to hook a captive audience).

Even if they’re doing poorly, it doesn’t mean it’s inevitable. That’s just the actuality.


----------



## VIP86

The Wood said:


> WWE has a much larger audience that is dropping out because they’ve got that audience to spare. AEW is mostly hardcore fans that represent the bottom of wrestling fandom (for the moment). AEW is not guaranteed to stay steady.


i agree about AEW, with the way the wrestling business going, there is a bigger chance that the ratings will go down rather than up

but your analysis is wayyyyyy off when it comes to WWE
WWE lost almost 50% of their viewers in 2 years
they don't have the audience to spare at all
(their youtube numbers don't matter just like AEW youtube numbers don't matter)
when they go up for only 1 week every few months, they crash hard the next week
there is nothing they can do to bring the lost viewers back, not even after vince dies
because if there is something that can be done for them, vince would have done it already
and HHH's EGO is much bigger than any other mcmahon

the situation now is that WWE is in a much worse shape when it comes to ratings
because they got paid 1 billion by 2 networks, and in return they keep falling and underperforming
AEW on the other hand exceeded the Ratings expectations from them, especially for the low amount of money they're getting paid by TNT compared to WWE


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> Doesn’t matter if others have or haven’t. Just because no one in a room full of idiots can’t figure out a Rubik’s cube doesn’t mean it’s unsolvable.
> 
> To be honest, I don’t know. How’s New Japan been doing? They seem way more reliant on their gates than promotions the size of WWE and AEW are (the two companies that could have really used this opportunity to hook a captive audience).
> 
> Even if they’re doing poorly, it doesn’t mean it’s inevitable. That’s just the actuality.


Those are certainly words! You threw up a nonsensical argument in reaching for something to paint AEW in a bad light. Now you're doubling down with ambiguity. The Rubik's cube analogy is my favourite bit.


----------



## The Wood

VIP86 said:


> i agree about AEW, with the way the wrestling business going, there is a bigger chance that the ratings will go down rather than up
> 
> but your analysis is wayyyyyy off when it comes to WWE
> WWE lost almost 50% of their viewers in 2 years
> they don't have the audience to spare at all
> (their youtube numbers don't matter just like AEW youtube numbers don't matter)
> when they go up for only 1 week every few months, they crash hard the next week
> there is nothing they can do to bring the lost viewers back, not even after vince dies
> because if there is something that can be done for them, vince would have done it already
> and HHH's EGO is much bigger than any other mcmahon
> 
> the situation now is that WWE is in a much worse shape when it comes to ratings
> because they got paid 1 billion by 2 networks, and in return they keep falling and underperforming
> AEW on the other hand exceeded the Ratings expectations from them, especially for the low amount of money they're getting paid by TNT compared to WWE


Their audience is several times larger than AEW’s. They produce so much profitable content. If you want to talk about the “key demo,” they’re the hottest thing on Friday night. They perform way better in their respective slots than AEW does in its.

They don’t need 4 million people. That is a red herring people often throw out to act like they’re in free fall. If they’re still performing significantly better than AEW, then what they still have is vastly more important.

Is their appeal to casuals disastrous? Yep. But _so is AEW’s_ and that is forgotten in these discussions. They’ve never built the audience to lose. But it doesn’t mean they are going to stay locked at 900k while WWE keeps going down at the same rate.

If those 900k are still watching AEW, I think it’s very, very likely you’ll have at least that many people plus some watching Raw and SmackDown.

As Raw goes up, so does AEW. When Raw goes down, so does AEW. Meltzer does some bullshit maths to try and make it look like it’s not the same people propping it up, but it is.

When the Raw rating comes out, we will be able to determine the direction of the AEW rating.


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> Those are certainly words! You threw up a nonsensical argument in reaching for something to paint AEW in a bad light. Now you're doubling down with ambiguity. The Rubik's cube analogy is my favourite bit.


It’s not a nonsensical argument and the analogy works. You’ve got nothing for it.

What have I said is a lie? The wrestling audience is eroding, interest is at an all-time low (except for maybe 1995, don’t follow the data there), it’s the same 1.5 million people watching Wednesdays, and Raw sets the tone for the week.

Point out one lie there, haha. I know tribalist wrestling fans want to act like one is on the rise and the other is dying a quick death, but that’s fantasy.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> It’s not a nonsensical argument and the analogy works. You’ve got nothing for it.
> 
> What have I said is a lie? The wrestling audience is eroding, interest is at an all-time low (except for maybe 1995, don’t follow the data there), it’s the same 1.5 million people watching Wednesdays, and Raw sets the tone for the week.
> 
> Point out one lie there, haha. I know tribalist wrestling fans want to act like one is on the rise and the other is dying a quick death, but that’s fantasy.


I didn't say you lied. I said you make nonsensical points like 'AEW may have benefitted from the pandemic' and 'WWE don't mind losing viewers'.


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> I didn't say you lied. I said you make nonsensical points like 'AEW may have benefitted from the pandemic' and 'WWE don't mind losing viewers'.


AEW could have benefitted from the pandemic. WWE probably aren’t stressing as much about viewers as half the wrestling internet makes out. They’re still #1 by a large, large margin, and AEW remaining in that 600-900k range doesn’t mean Raw will be at that level while AEW is still there.

By the way, I never said WWE doesn’t care about losing viewers. Of course they’d like to have to more. I can parry the point, but I want it registered that it’s made-up bullshit from you.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> AEW could have benefitted from the pandemic. WWE probably aren’t stressing as much about viewers as half the wrestling internet makes out. They’re still #1 by a large, large margin, and AEW remaining in that 600-900k range doesn’t mean Raw will be at that level while AEW is still there.
> 
> By the way, I never said WWE doesn’t care about losing viewers. Of course they’d like to have to more. I can parry the point, but I want it registered that it’s made-up bullshit from you.


Just comes across as acting in bad faith when you continuously reach for (baseless) speculation that paints AEW in a poor light whilst simultaneously defending actual (not speculated) negative trends for WWE. The level of bias devalues the rest of what you say imo.


----------



## zaz102

Ozell Gray said:


> The pandemic messed up other sports and those sports ratings were much higher but AEW's were already going down so the pandemic can't be used for them. They simply just lost viewers.
> 
> Also I don't like the 6 month comparison because I want year over year comparison because that gives a more accurate representation of how AEW's doing at keeping viewers.


I get your argument, I just dont agree. How about we say change user name per winners choice for a year?


And on a side note, if you don't believe in outliers and contextualizing/modeling data in data science, at least Google it if you're interested in learning where I'm coming from. I didn't make those terms up and data science has become a very popular field over past few years.


----------



## VIP86

The Wood said:


> Their audience is several times larger than AEW’s. They produce so much profitable content. If you want to talk about the “key demo,” they’re the hottest thing on Friday night. They perform way better in their respective slots than AEW does in its.
> 
> They don’t need 4 million people. That is a red herring people often throw out to act like they’re in free fall. If they’re still performing significantly better than AEW, then what they still have is vastly more important.
> 
> Is their appeal to casuals disastrous? Yep. But _so is AEW’s_ and that is forgotten in these discussions. They’ve never built the audience to lose. But it doesn’t mean they are going to stay locked at 900k while WWE keeps going down at the same rate.
> 
> If those 900k are still watching AEW, I think it’s very, very likely you’ll have at least that many people plus some watching Raw and SmackDown.
> 
> As Raw goes up, so does AEW. When Raw goes down, so does AEW. Meltzer does some bullshit maths to try and make it look like it’s not the same people propping it up, but it is.
> 
> When the Raw rating comes out, we will be able to determine the direction of the AEW rating.


i'm not arguing your AEW points as much as i'm arguing the WWE points

first, WWE IS in a free fall (50% of the viewers in 2 years) numbers don't lie
i don't care if they are casual or hardcore fans (losses are losses)
second, there's no way in hell RAW will get the same TV deal after losing this much viewers

if you want to compare the two companies
then also compare how much they are getting paid, and how they performed after getting paid
WWE's ratings continue to go down since they got paid, both in overall viewers and the demo
don't even try to put a positive spin on this dying company


----------



## Pentagon Senior

zaz102 said:


> I get your argument, I just dont agree. How about we say change user name per winners choice for a year?
> 
> 
> And on a side note, if you don't believe in outliers and contextualizing/modeling data in data science, at least Google it if you're interested in learning where I'm coming from. I didn't make those terms up and data science has become a very popular field over past few years.


I'd imagine the useful trends to evaluate so far would be 1) from the point the viewership initially settled circa episode 5 til just before the pandemic, and 2) from the point the viewership settled after initial lockdown til present?

That takes account of the initial positive outliers and lockdown related negative outliers, leaving us with a better idea of consistent movement (within parameters that are worthy of comparison). I've no idea what those trends would show but it would be more meaningful, by far, than what's been suggested by Ozell.

2021 will give us an even better understanding.


----------



## zaz102

Pentagon Senior said:


> I'd imagine the useful trends to evaluate so far would be 1) from the point the viewership initially settled circa episode 5 til just before the pandemic, and 2) from the point the viewership settled after initial lockdown til present?
> 
> That takes account of the initial positive outliers and lockdown related negative outliers, leaving us with a better idea of consistent movement (within parameters that are worthy of comparison). I've no idea what those trends would show but it would be more meaningful, by far, than what's been suggested by Ozell.
> 
> 2021 will give us an even better understanding.


Agreed. If you look at those areas on the trend it looks like between 750k+ to 900+. My guess is that it'll settle somewhere between those two numbers in 2021. Just closer to which number.

I will try to create the trend that you were talking about when I get some time. Interested to see what it looks like.


----------



## RapShepard

VIP86 said:


> i'm not arguing your AEW points as much as i'm arguing the WWE points
> 
> first, WWE IS in a free fall (50% of the viewers in 2 years) numbers don't lie
> i don't care if they are casual or hardcore fans (losses are losses)
> second,* there's no way in hell RAW will get the same TV deal after losing this much viewers*
> 
> if you want to compare the two companies
> then also compare how much they are getting paid, and how they performed after getting paid
> WWE's ratings continue to go down since they got paid, both in overall viewers and the demo
> don't even try to put a positive spin on this dying company


This was said before they got the latest deal. It's highly likely both promotions will get a sizeable increase when they go to renegotiate as live content will be even more important as streaming gets stronger. Keep in mind despite the fall Raw still manages to be a top 5-10 show demo wise every week. USA also doesn't have to pay for production of the show nor do they split revenue. AEW will also likely get a sizeable increase as they tend to be a top 5-10 show most Wednesdays. 

I think a lot of folk get so caught up in numbers of the past that they don't recognize that these shows are still performing phenomenally all things considered.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

zaz102 said:


> Agreed. If you look at those areas on the trend it looks like between 750k+ to 900+. My guess is that it'll settle somewhere between those two numbers in 2021. Just closer to which number.
> 
> I will try to create the trend that you were talking about when I get some time. Interested to see what it looks like.


Thanks for restoring my sanity! 

I just noticed the graphs you added earlier - good stuff. Both periods suggest slight growth but it's somewhat negligible and figures have been erratic overall. The post covid trend certainly could be seen as a positive though. 

I feel like 800k is where we're currently at for a 'normal episode' with 'special episodes' in the high 900k's.

Looking forward to see the continued trends you put together for 2021 🙂


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> Just comes across as acting in bad faith when you continuously reach for (baseless) speculation that paints AEW in a poor light whilst simultaneously defending actual (not speculated) negative trends for WWE. The level of bias devalues the rest of what you say imo.


They’re not baseless. We see the same numbers every week. How are they growing? You tell me since all I’m apparently doing is “painting them in a negative light.” Again, what am I saying is a lie?

I’m not “defending” the trends of the WWE either. They should be able to do better than this. But that doesn’t mean that they’re going to drop as low as AEW (which they are far ahead of even though apparently “unbiased” analysts act like they aren’t).

A lot of the people dropping off from Raw aren’t on the internet. A lot of the ones who are loudly the most critical of Raw also watch, as well as also watching AEW. These are the hardcore fans. They don’t drop at the same rate as the casuals do.



VIP86 said:


> i'm not arguing your AEW points as much as i'm arguing the WWE points
> 
> first, WWE IS in a free fall (50% of the viewers in 2 years) numbers don't lie
> i don't care if they are casual or hardcore fans (losses are losses)
> second, there's no way in hell RAW will get the same TV deal after losing this much viewers
> 
> if you want to compare the two companies
> then also compare how much they are getting paid, and how they performed after getting paid
> WWE's ratings continue to go down since they got paid, both in overall viewers and the demo
> don't even try to put a positive spin on this dying company


Lol, AEW lost about half its audience in its first year. It absolutely does matter if they are casual, because they are fans AEW is not going to get. And if the hardcore fans start dropping, AEW is going to go down too. Its fan-base are the same people that are going to float WWE forever and a day. They’re not boats being lifted by different tides.

Raw and SmackDown perform better in their slots than Dynamite does for TNT. That’s just a fact. People thought they would be laughed at the last time they went to make deals. Vince now sells shorter content internationally for more money. They are still one of the most watched shows on cable (way more than AEW). They are #1, flat-out, in the alleged key demo on Friday. If TV is dying, WWE is riding that wave. They are also going to probably shift to proving streaming service content.

Vince McMahon, despite what anyone says about him creatively, has been extremely savvy reading the lay of the land and moving his business in the direction it needs to go to be profitable. That includes changing direction from focusing on the WWE Network to TV. And that will probably change again as journalists like Meltzer talk about how insane he is for firing executives who don’t get that the business changes, and how he needs to step aside despite record profits.

Even so, Raw nor SmackDown can be compared to Dynamite proportionately. People try to work on an equation like Dynamite is costing only this much, and try to divide that into what WWE gets, but it doesn’t work like that. The difference between 900k and 1.7 million is astronomical in TV terms. No network is throwing away 800k viewers to pay $150 million less.


----------



## DaSlacker

They're likely growing their audience if you take into account other platforms, social media and licensing. Whether they are growing their number of paying customers is another thing. But I'd argue they have. TV might be lucrative but it's a false metric due to entertainment consumption being so fragmented. The same can be said for WWE, but that's been to the absolute top of the mountain several times and established something akin to DC or Marvel in terms of back catalogue. So it's more a case of cannibalising and monetizing.


----------



## VIP86

RapShepard said:


> This was said before they got the latest deal. It's highly likely both promotions will get a sizeable increase when they go to renegotiate as live content will be even more important as streaming gets stronger. Keep in mind despite the fall Raw still manages to be a top 5-10 show demo wise every week. USA also doesn't have to pay for production of the show nor do they split revenue. AEW will also likely get a sizeable increase as they tend to be a top 5-10 show most Wednesdays.
> 
> I think a lot of folk get so caught up in numbers of the past that they don't recognize that these shows are still performing phenomenally all things considered.


and this somehow changes the fact that they lost 50% of the viewers in 2 years ?
they've gone from being number 1 every time
to just be in the top 10
and somehow this is still acceptable and deserves the same amount of money ?

i can believe that AEW will get a better deal (since they exceeded expectations in ratings)
before believing that WWE will get a better deal (since they continue to free fall)

people get caught up in numbers because that's how TV networks judge the shows
it's not baseless

what i see when people talk about WWE, is a case of being in denial unfortunately
WWE is slowly and steadily DYING


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> They’re not baseless. We see the same numbers every week. How are they growing? You tell me since all I’m apparently doing is “painting them in a negative light.” Again, what am I saying is a lie?


Again I didn't say you were lying but you do make baseless speculation. A claim like 'AEW may have benefitted from the pandemic' is not only baseless speculation it's also an absurd take. It shows your motivation.

I know you like going round in circles but I've nothing more to add and not going to repeat myself over and again. I think I've made my point clearly enough.


----------



## kamaro011

VIP86 said:


> and this somehow changes the fact that they lost 50% of the viewers in 2 years ?
> they've gone from being number 1 every time
> to just be in the top 10
> and somehow this is still acceptable and deserves the same amount of money ?
> 
> i can believe that AEW will get a better deal (since they exceeded expectations in ratings)
> before believing that WWE will get a better deal (since they continue to free fall)
> 
> people get caught up in numbers because that's how TV networks judge the shows
> it's not baseless
> 
> what i see when people talk about WWE, is a case of being in denial unfortunately
> WWE is slowly and steadily DYING


WWE is halved their viewership compared in their AE days and yet still have record profits in 2020.

How is that considered dying?

People have been saying this kind of stuff for the past ten years and yet WWE still posting a record profit each years.


----------



## VIP86

The Wood said:


> Lol, AEW lost about half its audience in its first year


nope, not since the contracts has been extended in last january
we're talking the last contracts for WWE and AEW


----------



## RapShepard

VIP86 said:


> and this somehow changes the fact that they lost 50% of the viewers in 2 years ?
> they've gone from being number 1 every time
> to just be in the top 10
> and somehow this is still acceptable and deserves the same amount of money ?
> 
> i can believe that AEW will get a better deal (since they exceeded expectations in ratings)
> before believing that WWE will get a better deal (since they continue to free fall)
> 
> people get caught up in numbers because that's how TV networks judge the shows
> it's not baseless
> 
> what i see when people talk about WWE, is a case of being in denial unfortunately
> WWE is slowly and steadily DYING


They were losing viewers by the millions when they got offered more money to the tune of billions thrown at them. It's easy to predict death and lower contracts because that's simple. But how the networks work isn't that simple. Case in point by the time UFC's deal with Fox was coming up they had a massive fall off ratings wise for Fox and FX cards. Yet ESPN gave them a big bag to get them, then later paid extra afterwards for exclusive PPV rights. 

There's a lot more that goes into the networks decision. Not to say they don't want them to get their numbers back up. They low ball them they run the risk of losing them, and if they lose them can they get something that performs just as well in those 3 hours. It's probably a lot cheaper for them to just pay them, than take the hit in ad revenue and then having to produce 3 hours of your own content


----------



## VIP86

kamaro011 said:


> WWE is halved their viewership compared in their AE days and yet still have record profits in 2020.
> 
> How is that considered dying?
> 
> People have been saying this kind of stuff for the past ten years and yet WWE still posting a record profit each years.


so losing MORE than half your live viewers in 2 years
and close to 4 or 5 million live viewers since the AE era
is not considered slowly dying ?
going from number 1 to the top 10, is not declining ?

it's perfectly fine if you enjoy WWE
but it doesn't change the fact that the company will not even be in the top 10 in a few years
unless somehow they can come up with a few million live pro wrestling viewers
and that's not going to happen


----------



## VIP86

RapShepard said:


> They were losing viewers by the millions when they got offered more money to the tune of billions thrown at them. It's easy to predict death and lower contracts because that's simple. But how the networks work isn't that simple. Case in point by the time UFC's deal with Fox was coming up they had a massive fall off ratings wise for Fox and FX cards. Yet ESPN gave them a big bag to get them, then later paid extra afterwards for exclusive PPV rights.
> 
> There's a lot more that goes into the networks decision. Not to say they don't want them to get their numbers back up. They low ball them they run the risk of losing them, and if they lose them can they get something that performs just as well in those 3 hours. It's probably a lot cheaper for them to just pay them, than take the hit in ad revenue and then having to produce 3 hours of your own content


WWE produces hundreds of live tv hours every year
still in the top 10
i don't see the money they are getting is that impressive at all
actually it's a laughable amount if you look at today's numbers


----------



## kamaro011

VIP86 said:


> so losing MORE than half your live viewers in 2 years
> and close to 4 or 5 million live viewers since the AE era
> is not considered slowly dying ?
> going from number 1 to the top 10, is not declining ?
> 
> it's perfectly fine if you enjoy WWE
> but it doesn't change the fact that the company will not even be in the top 10 in a few years
> unless somehow they can come up with a few million live pro wrestling viewers
> and that's not going to happen


What is your definition of dying then as if they slowly going to fold up and bankrupt?

Which is from their annual report they will not dying anytime soon.

You don't have to be a fan of WWE for looking up on actual data and report that WWE is still healthy financially despite the current product is failing on quality stand point and attracting new fan.

Like i said people have been preaching that WWE is dying for decade, logically by 2020 the company should be bankrupt and irrelevant at this point and yet none of them is happening.


----------



## RapShepard

VIP86 said:


> WWE produces hundreds of live tv hours every year
> still in the top 10
> *i don't see the money they are getting is that impressive at all
> actually it's a laughable amount if you look at today's numbers*


Okay so if you think the money is low and unimpressive, how is it hard to imagine them getting more low unimpressive money since it's not breaking USA's pocket?


----------



## VIP86

kamaro011 said:


> What is your definition of dying then as if they slowly going to fold up and bankrupt?
> 
> Which is from their annual report they will not dying anytime soon.
> 
> You don't have to be a fan of WWE for looking up on actual data and report that WWE is still healthy financially despite the current product is failing on quality stand point and attracting new fan.
> 
> Like i said people have been preaching that WWE is dying for decade, logically by 2020 the company should be bankrupt and irrelevant at this point and yet none of them is happening.


no, of course i don't mean dying in this extreme way
i mean the interest in the company is steadily dying
which will inevitably lead to financial losses in the future


----------



## VIP86

RapShepard said:


> Okay so if you think the money is low and unimpressive, how is it hard to imagine them getting more low unimpressive money since it's not breaking USA's pocket?


because they keep dropping more and more
they dropped now from they were when they got paid the last time


----------



## kamaro011

VIP86 said:


> no, of course i don't mean dying in this extreme way
> i mean the interest in the company is steadily dying
> which will inevitably lead to financial losses in the future


The moment Vince see financial loss is the moment WWE will change their show dramatically.

But from the way the current show is still mostly trash and yet still creating a profit. Vince more than likely didn't see anything wrong on how he handling things anytime soon.


----------



## RapShepard

VIP86 said:


> because they keep dropping more and more
> they dropped now from they were when they got paid the last time


But when they got this deal which is their biggest they were still dropping through out the duration of their previous contract. You're seriously under estimating how desperate networks are for live programming right now.

I'm certainly not saying that them dropping viewers is good. I'm just saying that the fact they still perform top 5-10, don't split ad revenue, don't cost USA production money, and more importantly Live TV is at a premium. Makes it more likely they get a nice increase. I do get what you're saying that at some point they need to turn the shit around though.


----------



## VIP86

RapShepard said:


> But when they got this deal which is their biggest they were still dropping through out the duration of their previous contract. You're seriously under estimating how desperate networks are for live programming right now.
> 
> I'm certainly not saying that them dropping viewers is good. I'm just saying that the fact they still perform top 5-10, don't split ad revenue, don't cost USA production money, and more importantly Live TV is at a premium. Makes it more likely they get a nice increase. I do get what you're saying that at some point they need to turn the shit around though.


i 100% agree that networks are desperate for live programming
which will be the only reason for WWE to get an increase in money

but what exactly is the networks red line when it comes to ratings, is a mystery to me


----------



## wrasslin_casual

TKO Wrestling said:


> They are drawing the highest non WWE buyrates since WCW early 2000.


LOL but that's not saying much. If AEW is doing so well then it should have a higher buyrate than c level boxing events in the USA


----------



## 3venflow

wrasslin_casual said:


> LOL but that's not saying much. If AEW is doing so well then it should have a higher buyrate than c level boxing events in the USA


Their buyrates are just fine in today's market and industry. Their average is higher than 2000 WCW PPVs were doing (WCW was on its way down of course, but there were still more eyes on wrestling back then) and better or similar to most of ECW's. There is no comparison to TNA who never did more than 60k worldwide for their PPVs even when they had Angle, Sting, AJ, Joe, Booker T and Christian.


----------



## wrasslin_casual

3venflow said:


> Their buyrates are just fine in today's market and industry. Their average is higher than 2000 WCW PPVs were doing (WCW was on its way down of course, but there were still more eyes on wrestling back then) and better or similar to most of ECW's. There is no comparison to TNA who never did more than 60k worldwide for their PPVs even when they had Angle, Sting, AJ, Joe, Booker T and Christian.


But the PPV market has changed drastically. Most of the buys are in the US, where more people than ever before have access to PPV providers. Do you know how it was throughout the 90s and 00s? Not everyone had access to PPV providers, so trying to compare to those numbers is plain sad.

A better comparison would be other modern sporting events. Let's minus WWE and look at c grade boxers. Those events often do 100k PPV buys, looking at some AEW numbers, that's where they are numbering right now. That's not a good look.


----------



## Erik.

wrasslin_casual said:


> But the PPV market has changed drastically. Most of the buys are in the US, where more people than ever before have access to PPV providers. Do you know how it was throughout the 90s and 00s? Not everyone had access to PPV providers, so trying to compare to those numbers is plain sad.
> 
> A better comparison would be other modern sporting events. Let's minus WWE and look at c grade boxers. Those events often do 100k PPV buys, looking at some AEW numbers, that's where they are numbering right now. That's not a good look.


Do you believe a start up wrestling company with hardly any name recognition in America due to the hold WWE have had on wrestling for 20+ years should actually be getting higher than they have been getting!?

And why?

And I'm not sure comparing a scripted television shows PPVs should really be compared to a real contact sport. Boxing has a bigger and a lot more loyal audience for the sport for a start.

Im not particularly disagreeing with you, I'd just like to know why you think they should be doing better on PPV when most people think those numbers are actually pretty good.


----------



## Ozell Gray

bdon said:


> Then why are you using year over year comparison for a show that only had 3 months last year?
> 
> But I do agree. 2021 should tell the tale.


Because Dynamite began in 2019 and In comparing all of 2019 to all of 2020 to get year over year numbers.



Pentagon Senior said:


> So comparing 3 month of 2019 v 12 months 2020. The former containing the initial bump, the latter containing 9 months of a global pandemic. Not sure you could get a more skewed analysis or way of judging AEW success. But you know that of course and that's why you do it.


It’s me comparing all of the 2019 numbers to 2020’s numbers and you don’t get to exclude the debut anduse the pandemic as an excuse when I already gave the numbers pre-pandemic showing that the numbers had already dropped but you already knew that.



> So comparing 3 month of 2019 v 12 months 2020. The former containing the initial bump, the latter containing 9 months of a global pandemic. Not sure you could get a more skewed analysis or way of judging AEW success. But you know that of course and that's why you do it.
> 
> 
> 
> But then...


“By then” they had already lost a chunk of their audience.



> So comparing 3 month of 2019 v 12 months 2020. The former containing the initial bump, the latter containing 9 months of a global pandemic. Not sure you could get a more skewed analysis or way of judging AEW success. But you know that of course and that's why you do it.
> 
> 
> 
> But then...
> 
> 
> 
> It's you whose clearly being disingenuous by comparing two very different samples, ignoring extenuating factors and yet demanding a full years comparison in the next breath (despite your absurd analysis before hand).


It’s you who’s disingenuous because I showed all of the numbers showing Dynamite isn’t growing no matter what period of time you want to use. 2019? 911k pre-pandemic? 884k. All of 2020? 810k so there’s no growth there period no matter how many excuses you want to throw out there.



> So comparing 3 month of 2019 v 12 months 2020. The former containing the initial bump, the latter containing 9 months of a global pandemic. Not sure you could get a more skewed analysis or way of judging AEW success. But you know that of course and that's why you do it.
> 
> 
> 
> But then...
> 
> 
> 
> It's you whose clearly being disingenuous by comparing two very different samples, ignoring extenuating factors and yet demanding a full years comparison in the next breath (despite your absurd analysis before hand).
> 
> 
> 
> Because it skews results to make AEW look like they're failing
> 
> 
> 
> Yes 2021 will give us a good idea of where they're heading
> 
> 
> 
> So we factor in the global pandemic for other ratings but don't for AEW.
> 
> Lol sounds legit


Yeah because the numbers were already dropping for AEW long before the pandemic but you clearly don’t want to believe data that doesn’t show “AEW is growing” even though I’ve provided many different times on here.


----------



## Klitschko

I dont understand the boxing vs AEW buyrates comparison. Youre comparing all of boxing to a specific brand in the pro wrestling world. A brand of pro wrestling thats only 2 years old. Boxing is a much bigger real sport in the world than pro wrestling ever will be.


----------



## Ozell Gray

zaz102 said:


> I get your argument, I just dont agree. How about we say change user name per winners choice for a year?
> 
> 
> And on a side note, if you don't believe in outliers and contextualizing/modeling data in data science, at least Google it if you're interested in learning where I'm coming from. I didn't make those terms up and data science has become a very popular field over past few years.


Who ever loses has to leave the AEW section. Deal?

Even in science outliers aren’t used to support data because that’s unreliable.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Ozell Gray said:


> Because Dynamite began in 2019 and In comparing all of 2019 to all of 2020 to get year over year numbers.
> 
> Response - It's a skewed comparison for the reasons already stated and for the same reason you demand a full year v full year comparison in your bet with zaz.
> 
> It’s me comparing all of the 2019 numbers to 2020’s numbers and you don’t get to exclude the debut anduse the pandemic as an excuse when I already gave the numbers pre-pandemic showing that the numbers had already dropped but you already knew that.
> 
> Response - You wouldn't necessarily 'exclude' but to analyse data without accounting for clear outliers is poor use of stats. Your conclusion is oversimplistic and flawed as a result. Referring to the pandemic as an excuse is funny - it's had a dramatic effect on live event promotions across the board, no?
> 
> “By then” they had already lost a chunk of their audience.
> 
> Response - To be fair, viewership was dropping very slightly in the months prior to covid but were generally consistent (they were rising end of 2019 before the slight drop off). But I won't argue for growth there. I'm just disagreeing with your fatalistic prognosis that ignores several key issues.
> 
> It’s you who’s disingenuous because I showed all of the numbers showing Dynamite isn’t growing no matter what period of time you want to use. 2019? 911k pre-pandemic? 884k. All of 2020? 810k so there’s no growth there period no matter how many excuses you want to throw out there.
> 
> Response - See above for pre covid. The recovery and growth post covid seem very healthy though. You miss out on a more meaningful understanding by making such broad brush statements as you've made. You should check out zaz's trends for a fuller picture.
> 
> Yeah because the numbers were already dropping for AEW long before the pandemic but you clearly don’t want to believe data that doesn’t show “AEW is growing” even though I’ve provided many different times on here.
> 
> Response - I wouldn't say AEW's US cable figures show growth overall. That would also be an oversimplification. Overall they've remained pretty consistent since the end of 2019 which, considering the pandemic, is an achievement. Since then there has been healthy recovery/growth but 2021 will give a fuller picture. You can continue to pretend the pandemic isn't a factor but that only devalues the credibility of your analysis. There are signs of growth internationally which is a good sign.


See responses above


----------



## zaz102

Ozell Gray said:


> Who ever loses has to leave the AEW section. Deal?
> 
> Even in science outliers aren’t used to support data because that’s unreliable.


Haha ok. Deal!


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Are they seeing their popularity dropping? I don’t follow US sports. A lot of Australian sports have been at risk of dying, so it’s not unreasonable to think that US ones are too.
> 
> Or are they going to other mediums? Are there apps to watch sports? I know that’s how most people watch over here. What else is AEW on besides TNT? What metric would you use to suggest they are growing?
> 
> It’s the same audience almost every week. The wrestling audience has been scared away and it’s only getting more hardcore and more niche.
> 
> I actually did watch my first NFL game this year, because wrestling is making me look for other things. And I am the most wrestling obsessed person I know.


Yes. It is slowly dying like ALL entertainment industries. Movie theaters don’t do the business they once did, even if the MCU is routinely breaking records.

Fact is the internet is killing EVERYTHING. Most importantly, it is killing people’s attention spans. I love the Amazon Prime show, The Boys, but I either binge watch it or watch half an episode or fuck off on my phone.

That last part is the bigger problem these industries all face: the ability to watch everything in highlights on your phone, at your convenience, while having the ability to stop and start as necessary between your social media posts, text messages, phone calls, etc makes it a CHORE to sit down and watch live television.

I was on my way to the airport Monday, and my wife had the radio on low while we sat and talked the last few minutes we had. I stopped her mid-sentence when I heard an alarming stat: Americans spend, on average, close to 14 hours in front of a digital device. I nearly put my window down and chucked my phone when I heard this.

Whoever figures out a way to capture a licensing deal with YouTube or Netflix is the wrestling company that will save the industry. Vince was on the right path with the Network, but he was too greedy in wanting to avoid sharing profits, because the casual fan isn’t paying a Hulu/Vudu/Netflix subscription to watch content only based around the world of wrestling.


----------



## bdon

Ozell Gray said:


> Because Dynamite began in 2019 and In comparing all of 2019 to all of 2020 to get year over year numbers.


The 3 months is not a large enough sample size to get an accurate read, though. October 2019 to October 2020 is a much more sound argument, then you can use October 2020 to October 2021 to see real gains and losses.


----------



## The Wood

VIP86 said:


> and this somehow changes the fact that they lost 50% of the viewers in 2 years ?
> they've gone from being number 1 every time
> to just be in the top 10
> and somehow this is still acceptable and deserves the same amount of money ?
> 
> i can believe that AEW will get a better deal (since they exceeded expectations in ratings)
> before believing that WWE will get a better deal (since they continue to free fall)
> 
> people get caught up in numbers because that's how TV networks judge the shows
> it's not baseless
> 
> what i see when people talk about WWE, is a case of being in denial unfortunately
> WWE is slowly and steadily DYING


TV networks care about different metrics now. Social media, other demos, how much they squeak off advertisers, brand familiarity, etc. Only wrestling focuses on ratings like power levels.

WWE is going to do one step forward, two steps back until it gets to a certain point where it is still infinitely more valuable than AEW. That’s my point. They’re not going to hit 0 viewers while AEW sits at a pretty 800k. AEW is at the base.

The WWE provides hours and hours of live entertainment on the cheap for a dying medium. They are going to milk what they



Pentagon Senior said:


> Again I didn't say you were lying but you do make baseless speculation. A claim like 'AEW may have benefitted from the pandemic' is not only baseless speculation it's also an absurd take. It shows your motivation.
> 
> I know you like going round in circles but I've nothing more to add and not going to repeat myself over and again. I think I've made my point clearly enough.


AEW may have benefitted from the pandemic. You have millions and millions of people stuck at home with their routines interrupted. How does that not give you a potential audience for the taking? It’s not baseless. It just didn’t happen because modern wrestling cannot compete with other entertainment. There is more wrestling in the news shows that kick their ass.

And guess what? It was an opportunity for WWE too. It’s not an anti-AEW point, so stop trying to project that at your convenience. You’re the one being baseless in order to dismiss me.



kamaro011 said:


> WWE is halved their viewership compared in their AE days and yet still have record profits in 2020.
> 
> How is that considered dying?
> 
> People have been saying this kind of stuff for the past ten years and yet WWE still posting a record profit each years.


Because pundits on the internet and the “journalists” who cater to them really don’t know what they’re talking about.

They are more concerned with their fandom, as opposed to the big business moves. They see AEW getting a few thousand more viewers than NXT as them dropping the leg, as opposed to recognising that it’s capped WWE’s closest competition and protected their stake in TV rights negotiations.



VIP86 said:


> nope, not since the contracts has been extended in last january
> we're talking the last contracts for WWE and AEW


The AEW contract was very unimpressive.

If the USA Network is so concerned, why do they still keep Raw’s third hour?



VIP86 said:


> so losing MORE than half your live viewers in 2 years
> and close to 4 or 5 million live viewers since the AE era
> is not considered slowly dying ?
> going from number 1 to the top 10, is not declining ?
> 
> it's perfectly fine if you enjoy WWE
> but it doesn't change the fact that the company will not even be in the top 10 in a few years
> unless somehow they can come up with a few million live pro wrestling viewers
> and that's not going to happen


I don’t enjoy WWE. But the point is that if they are not in the “Top 10” (I think you’re using the wrong chart for this, by the way), then AEW is definitely not going to be either.

They’re not going to keep falling while AEW remains static, lol. There are a certain number of hardcore wrestling fans keeping AEW propped up that are going to be there for Raw and SmackDown too. More so for those shows. They’ll _always_ likely be doing better than Dynamite.

If Raw and SmackDown are dying (very questionable about SmackDown too, since SmackDown holds real fucking steady on FOX), then AEW is already dead.

When the TV deals are up, did it occur to anybody that WWE might move Raw in a two-hour format to FOX? SmackDown has been doing very well for them, moving Raw might be the most logical move for both parties. That will probably see them get to about 2.5 million viewers again. Or they could take it someone for more money but less exposure. WWE has done that with Raw in the past (TNN move) and internationally (recently).



kamaro011 said:


> The moment Vince see financial loss is the moment WWE will change their show dramatically.
> 
> But from the way the current show is still mostly trash and yet still creating a profit. Vince more than likely didn't see anything wrong on how he handling things anytime soon.


You and Rap have been making some great posts in here, but I wanted to shout this one out: This is 100% spot-on. This isn’t the sexy story, but it’s the true one — Vince cares about the WWE’s bottom-line



3venflow said:


> Their buyrates are just fine in today's market and industry. Their average is higher than 2000 WCW PPVs were doing (WCW was on its way down of course, but there were still more eyes on wrestling back then) and better or similar to most of ECW's. There is no comparison to TNA who never did more than 60k worldwide for their PPVs even when they had Angle, Sting, AJ, Joe, Booker T and Christian.


casual already took this post down pretty succinctly, but I just wanted to point out that ECW did better on domestic PPV than AEW. Meltzer conflates AEW’s international buys with its domestic buys and compares this worldwide number to what ECW used to do on domestic, terrestrial PPV.

You know, in a time when not everyone had a smart device in their pocket that could order it. You used to have to have an enabled TV and secure primacy on that unit and call up to order.

The number of times I couldn’t order a PPV because I couldn’t get the TV away from my dad, mum or siblings, lol. Also, the PPV was linked to my parents’ account, and they didn’t want to spend money on wrestling when it was on TV for free and I was going to find out who won anyway.

Younger people have way more agency over their time and accounts these days. And ECW STILL whoopAEW in domestic PPV buys.



Erik. said:


> Do you believe a start up wrestling company with hardly any name recognition in America due to the hold WWE have had on wrestling for 20+ years should actually be getting higher than they have been getting!?
> 
> And why?
> 
> And I'm not sure comparing a scripted television shows PPVs should really be compared to a real contact sport. Boxing has a bigger and a lot more loyal audience for the sport for a start.
> 
> Im not particularly disagreeing with you, I'd just like to know why you think they should be doing better on PPV when most people think those numbers are actually pretty good.


Yes, I do believe a fresh wrestling company has got the ability to launch a hot new hit TV show that captures minds and imaginations. Because in television, being new and exciting is an advantage.

How the hell could anything ever hope to get a footing over Law & Order and The Simpsons? Oh wait, by capturing a TV audience.

You absolutely can compare boxing to wrestling. They’re both simulated contact sports. They’re both on PPV. If you’re taking a “wrestling is fake so it’s going to do worse than...” _what is the point to any of this?_ Why be on PPV in the first place? Why even exist?

Meltzer says the AEW numbers are good, but he also said that the WWE doing 360k US buys was bad, even though it’s literally six tkmes



Klitschko said:


> I dont understand the boxing vs AEW buyrates comparison. Youre comparing all of boxing to a specific brand in the pro wrestling world. A brand of pro wrestling thats only 2 years old. Boxing is a much bigger real sport in the world than pro wrestling ever will be.


Wrestling has been bigger than boxing. Boxing has just protected its business better.



bdon said:


> Yes. It is slowly dying like ALL entertainment industries. Movie theaters don’t do the business they once did, even if the MCU is routinely breaking records.
> 
> Fact is the internet is killing EVERYTHING. Most importantly, it is killing people’s attention spans. I love the Amazon Prime show, The Boys, but I either binge watch it or watch half an episode or fuck off on my phone.
> 
> That last part is the bigger problem these industries all face: the ability to watch everything in highlights on your phone, at your convenience, while having the ability to stop and start as necessary between your social media posts, text messages, phone calls, etc makes it a CHORE to sit down and watch live television.
> 
> I was on my way to the airport Monday, and my wife had the radio on low while we sat and talked the last few minutes we had. I stopped her mid-sentence when I heard an alarming stat: Americans spend, on average, close to 14 hours in front of a digital device. I nearly put my window down and chucked my phone when I heard this.
> 
> Whoever figures out a way to capture a licensing deal with YouTube or Netflix is the wrestling company that will save the industry. Vince was on the right path with the Network, but he was too greedy in wanting to avoid sharing profits, because the casual fan isn’t paying a Hulu/Vudu/Netflix subscription to watch content only based around the world of wrestling.


The attention span thing is bullshit. People will watch something if it is good. They just don’t have to put up with crap anymore.

But yes, the internet hurts in many ways. It helps in others (exposure, connectivity, etc.). Other mediums have struggled to adapt. It would be nice if wrestling had an MCU.

Vince is in bed with Netflix to do that documentary on himself. It’s very possible that will segue into some sort of relationship. Otherwise, it might be up to someone else.


----------



## Shock Street

The Wood said:


> But yes, the internet hurts in many ways. It helps in others (exposure, connectivity, etc.). Other mediums have struggled to adapt. It would be nice if wrestling had an MCU.


Please god no, don't let them think somebody wants a Luchasaurus origin movie


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> AEW may have benefitted from the pandemic. You have millions and millions of people stuck at home with their routines interrupted. How does that not give you a potential audience for the taking? It’s not baseless. It just didn’t happen because modern wrestling cannot compete with other entertainment. There is more wrestling in the news shows that kick their ass.
> 
> And guess what? It was an opportunity for WWE too. It’s not an anti-AEW point, so stop trying to project that at your convenience. You’re the one being baseless in order to dismiss me.


I'm not sure what point you're making now really because generally all promotions struggled, that's the reality. Just saying 'but they could have benefitted if they did a better job' is neither here nor there. The bit I agree with and the important bit when analysing stats is "it just didn't happen". Just like it didn't happen elsewhere that's comparable.


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> I'm not sure what point you're making now really because generally all promotions struggled, that's the reality. Just saying 'but they could have benefitted if they did a better job' is neither here nor there. The bit I agree with and the important bit when analysing stats is "it just didn't happen". Just like it didn't happen elsewhere that's comparable.


No, it’s not here nor there, lol. That’s the whole point. And just because no one did it doesn’t mean it isn’t possible. Just like it isn’t impossible to have a wrestling show that appeals to wrestling fans en masse in 2021.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> No, it’s not here nor there, lol. That’s the whole point. And just because no one did it doesn’t mean it isn’t possible. Just like it isn’t impossible to have a wrestling show that appeals to wrestling fans en masse in 2021.


It may be a point of interest for a discussion in itelf... 'why didn't the wrestling industry perform better in the pandemic'? 

But.. 

It's irrelevant to the discussion of AEW's ratings we've been analysing here - because they didn't benefit from it and neither did the competition (so there's no yardstick to say they should have). They were negatively affected, just like the others. In fact they coped better than most if I remember correctly? So they outperformed the yardstick, if anything. Any talk otherwise is superfluous as it's not grounded in reality.

The saying "if my aunt had bollocks she'd be my uncle" springs to mind.


----------



## Aedubya

Well that's the ratings getting a hammering tonight lol 
Maybe one of the lowest yet


Cheers Trump


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Aedubya said:


> Well that's the ratings getting a hammering tonight lol
> Maybe one of the lowest yet
> 
> 
> Cheers Trump


yup - news news news

the biggest competitor these days 🤦‍♂️


----------



## VIP86

The Wood said:


> If the USA Network is so concerned, why do they still keep Raw’s third hour?


you already answered yourself by previously saying this


The Wood said:


> The WWE provides hours and hours of live entertainment on the cheap for a dying medium.





The Wood said:


> The AEW contract was very unimpressive.


i agree, but so does the WWE contracts, seeing how much content they produce


finally
i agree about your AEW points
but not about your WWE points
the problem with your WWE points, is that it's all speculations of what's WWE going to do in the future
but i argue the situation now and what already happened so far


----------



## kamaro011

VIP86 said:


> you already answered yourself by previously saying this
> 
> 
> i agree, but so does the WWE contracts, seeing how much content they produce
> 
> 
> finally
> i agree about your AEW points
> but not about your WWE points
> the problem with your WWE points, is that it's all speculations of what's WWE going to do in the future
> but i argue the situation now and what already happened so far


Raw being third hour isn't recent phenomenom, it has been close near ten year as far as i am remember. Back then Raw is double of what they have right now in term of ratings (still poor by AE Era standards), in those years USA network can plug revoke Raw third hour anytime when it hasnt been working to improve rating. Yet they still keep it and extended the contract (even raising the price of contract), despite the failing of ratings.

It is either people on the network is a fool or people on internet discussing it don't know what they are talking about.


----------



## VIP86

kamaro011 said:


> Raw being third hour isn't recent phenomenom, it has been close near ten year as far as i am remember. Back then Raw is double of what they have right now in term of ratings (still poor by AE Era standards), in those years USA network can plug revoke Raw third hour anytime when it hasnt been working to improve rating. Yet they still keep it and extended the contract (even raising the price of contract), despite the failing of ratings.
> 
> It is either people on the network is a fool or people on internet discussing it don't know what they are talking about.


we already established that networks are desperate for live programming


----------



## kamaro011

VIP86 said:


> we already established that networks are desperate for live programming


It will be interesting when the cable is completely died off some times in the near future, what will these wrestling company is going to do when that happen.

WWE still have the biggest chance surviving all of these when time comes compared the other.


----------



## VIP86

kamaro011 said:


> It will be interesting when the cable is completely died off some times in the near future, what will these wrestling company is going to do when that happen.
> 
> WWE still have the biggest chance surviving all of these when time comes compared the other.


imagine people are watching RAW live for free on the WWE network, and suddenly the site gets ddos attacked
the internet is convenient, but it's the high seas


----------



## wrasslin_casual

Erik. said:


> Do you believe a start up wrestling company with hardly any name recognition in America due to the hold WWE have had on wrestling for 20+ years should actually be getting higher than they have been getting!?
> 
> And why?
> 
> And I'm not sure comparing a scripted television shows PPVs should really be compared to a real contact sport. Boxing has a bigger and a lot more loyal audience for the sport for a start.
> 
> Im not particularly disagreeing with you, I'd just like to know why you think they should be doing better on PPV when most people think those numbers are actually pretty good.


I think, if AEW fans are claiming the company is doing well then YES, it should be getting far higher PPV buys than it actually is. However, if we look at this realistically and dial back all the fanboy nonsense then as a growing company, it's probably on the lower end of growth and it should be doing better, but it has opportunities to improve. But you know what the problem is? The diehard fans, the niche in this industry who keep harping on about how well AEW is doing will end up and have hurt the company. Everyone knows, many of us have posted on here, the recent Jericho twitter debacle also proved it, that the company has to give up so many of its bad habits: comedy skits, out of shape ex WWE guys, overall presentation looking like "WWE-lite", legit intimidating looking wrestlers rather than guys called the Bucks who look like something from a 1970s B movie etc etc etc

Problem is, AEW caters to a tiny audience and this is the trash they want....and if you as a fan are ok with that then fine. But there shouldn't be threads and posts about how well they are doing. In over a year they have not even begun to make a splash. 

And yes, comparing a wrestling PPV to a minor level boxing PPV is acceptable. I'm not sure if you follow the sport but if you do, like I have for 30 years, then you know that boxing outside of a few big names, is a niche sport in the US. It has been for decades now, since the end of the Tyson era. For AEW, supposedly this company on the rise which claimed they were "bringing a sports based presentation" to not compete with the lowest of the low PPVs out there is a big issue. 

That's just my point and like many lapsed wrestling fans, I tuned into the first few weeks of AEW hoping for it to be something more...it isn't and it can't be as long as they stick to their toxic fanbase.


----------



## RapShepard

VIP86 said:


> i 100% agree that networks are desperate for live programming
> which will be the only reason for WWE to get an increase in money
> 
> but what exactly is the networks red line when it comes to ratings, is a mystery to me


I imagine it's something crazy lower than they're doing. Imagine it'd have to be a deal where they're basically doing the same ratings as USA original programing. 

But we shall see, let's table this discussion for a few years [emoji23]


----------



## Erik.

wrasslin_casual said:


> I think, if AEW fans are claiming the company is doing well then YES, it should be getting far higher PPV buys than it actually is. However, if we look at this realistically and dial back all the fanboy nonsense then as a growing company, it's probably on the lower end of growth and it should be doing better, but it has opportunities to improve. But you know what the problem is? The diehard fans, the niche in this industry who keep harping on about how well AEW is doing will end up and have hurt the company. Everyone knows, many of us have posted on here, the recent Jericho twitter debacle also proved it, that the company has to give up so many of its bad habits: comedy skits, out of shape ex WWE guys, overall presentation looking like "WWE-lite", legit intimidating looking wrestlers rather than guys called the Bucks who look like something from a 1970s B movie etc etc etc


Why should they be getting far higher PPV buys than they actually are?

Based off what?

What other wrestling company out there get better PPV buys? If any?

Are the company disappointed with their PPV buys?

If so, can you provide a link?




wrasslin_casual said:


> And yes, comparing a wrestling PPV to a minor level boxing PPV is acceptable. I'm not sure if you follow the sport but if you do, like I have for 30 years, then you know that boxing outside of a few big names, is a niche sport in the US. It has been for decades now, since the end of the Tyson era. For AEW, supposedly this company on the rise which claimed they were "bringing a sports based presentation" to not compete with the lowest of the low PPVs out there is a big issue.
> 
> That's just my point and like many lapsed wrestling fans, I tuned into the first few weeks of AEW hoping for it to be something more...it isn't and it can't be as long as they stick to their toxic fanbase.


Why should one promotion of wrestling be compared to a whole sport of boxing?

Don't worry, I've been following sports for near on 35 years now. And for as long as I remember, wrestling has never matched up to boxing at comparable levels. And it never will.

To even compare a promotion a year and a half old, amongst a business that's only ever been known as WWE for 2 decades, to any sort of boxing PPV buy rate is laughable. Boxing may be a niche sport in America but it's still about 10 times more relevant than wrestling has ever been and ever will be and I am willing to bet you there are more die hard boxing fans in America than there are die hard wrestling fans. 

I also don't think there's this sad deep rooted tribalism when it comes to boxing either, certainly not when it comes to purchasing or watching a certain boxing event like there is in wrestling.


----------



## RapShepard

Dynamite will probably be in the 20s tonight and NXT won't be charting at all.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

this is height of covid era or election night stuff

top 40 will be news

..... ps> all the Americans on this board ok? Seems like a right catastrophe


----------



## Klitschko

@LifeInCattleClass yea its pretty bad here. few coworkers have said that there is multiple states that have planned to do similar things and will start in a few hours. Tonight should be interesting. 

Also it won't impact Dynamite at all though. They will get their usual 750-850k fans. A meteor could hit earth and somehow that show will still get its usual rating.


----------



## Ozell Gray

bdon said:


> The 3 months is not a large enough sample size to get an accurate read, though. October 2019 to October 2020 is a much more sound argument, then you can use October 2020 to October 2021 to see real gains and losses.


It certainly is big enough since you have to start at when the show started airing and compare that year to the following year to get accurate numbers of how the show's doing. I'll be fair and use all of 2020 to 2021 then to give a comparison of the two to see how Dynamite's average is whether it's increased or decreased. 



zaz102 said:


> Haha ok. Deal!


Ok deal.



Pentagon Senior said:


> See responses above


The response isn't saying anything but you using "oversimplistic" which isn't a good comeback or reply to the data provided by me.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Klitschko said:


> Also it won't impact Dynamite at all though. They will get their usual 750-850k fans. A meteor could hit earth and somehow that show will still get its usual rating.


The samething happened the last time and it didn't affect Dynamite's viewership so I don't know why people keep bringing that up every time something happens on the news and say "AEW's numbers are going to go down" and then turn around and say "it's great numbers for them because the news was on and I thought the numbers were going to go down."


----------



## DammitChrist

.christopher. said:


> No, your circle jerking wasn't nice.
> 
> Sensible posters speaking sense is nice.


The individual that you quoted here made arguably the most sensible post of the day on here. It’s best if you (and company) take notes, especially since he just demonstrated how AEW is also growing in Brazil plus the United Kingdom too.


----------



## Klitschko

Ozell Gray said:


> The samething happened the last time and it didn't affect Dynamite's viewership so I don't know why people keep bringing that up every time something happens on the news and say "AEW's numbers are going to go down" and then turn around and say "it's great numbers for them because the news was on and I thought the numbers were going to go down."


I think you're spot on. During the debates for the president of the US, I thought it would impact it as well, and then every single time nothing. News or no news. Nothing will change.


----------



## VIP86

Trump is doing this on purpose against AEW today
he's friends with Vince McMahon
this is all a big conspiracy


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> The attention span thing is bullshit. People will watch something if it is good. They just don’t have to put up with crap anymore.


And yet Game of Thrones had 25% more people watching via DVR. You act as if people will find a way to watch Live no matter what when clearly that isn’t the goddamn case ACROSS all media platforms.


----------



## PushCrymeTyme

if the bullet club storyline can recreate the magic of the og bullet club for first time american viewers who didnt watch njpw we could be seeing a boom


----------



## Chip Chipperson

PushCrymeTyme said:


> if the bullet club storyline can recreate the magic of the og bullet club for first time american viewers who didnt watch njpw we could be seeing a boom


Let's be real, Bullet Club is an nWo parody that worked in Japan because it was unique and different.

Nobody knows Bullet Club except NJPW fans and any casual that tunes in will simply assume it's an nWo knockoff.


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> It may be a point of interest for a discussion in itelf... 'why didn't the wrestling industry perform better in the pandemic'?
> 
> But..
> 
> It's irrelevant to the discussion of AEW's ratings we've been analysing here - because they didn't benefit from it and neither did the competition (so there's no yardstick to say they should have). They were negatively affected, just like the others. In fact they coped better than most if I remember correctly? So they outperformed the yardstick, if anything. Any talk otherwise is superfluous as it's not grounded in reality.
> 
> The saying "if my aunt had bollocks she'd be my uncle" springs to mind.


I don’t think you really grasp what I’m saying. I’m not saying they did better, or what if they did better. I’m saying they could have done better. 



Aedubya said:


> Well that's the ratings getting a hammering tonight lol
> Maybe one of the lowest yet
> 
> 
> Cheers Trump


Eh, big/horrifying news, but it won’t likely affect Dynamite. More people watch the news when stuff happens — they don’t cancel their usual habits. Yes, news will do way better, but Dynamite will do its usual expected rating. 



VIP86 said:


> you already answered yourself by previously saying this
> 
> 
> i agree, but so does the WWE contracts, seeing how much content they produce
> 
> 
> finally
> i agree about your AEW points
> but not about your WWE points
> the problem with your WWE points, is that it's all speculations of what's WWE going to do in the future
> but i argue the situation now and what already happened so far


I’m not even saying the contracts are that impressive. WWE is cheap too. I think I even explicitly stated that. But it makes then ENORMOUSLY profitable. AEW’s doesn’t do that. Nor is their rating a threat to WWE’s, no matter what Meltzer or those peddling bad maths try to tell you.

Raw, SmackDown and probably NXT (truthfully) are all going to be more valuable than AEW going into the future. The idea that they are a leaky ship whereas AEW isn’t is just a falsehood. If anything, AEW never started to float. Raw’s numbers aren’t going to eeoo



wrasslin_casual said:


> I think, if AEW fans are claiming the company is doing well then YES, it should be getting far higher PPV buys than it actually is. However, if we look at this realistically and dial back all the fanboy nonsense then as a growing company, it's probably on the lower end of growth and it should be doing better, but it has opportunities to improve. But you know what the problem is? The diehard fans, the niche in this industry who keep harping on about how well AEW is doing will end up and have hurt the company. Everyone knows, many of us have posted on here, the recent Jericho twitter debacle also proved it, that the company has to give up so many of its bad habits: comedy skits, out of shape ex WWE guys, overall presentation looking like "WWE-lite", legit intimidating looking wrestlers rather than guys called the Bucks who look like something from a 1970s B movie etc etc etc
> 
> Problem is, AEW caters to a tiny audience and this is the trash they want....and if you as a fan are ok with that then fine. But there shouldn't be threads and posts about how well they are doing. In over a year they have not even begun to make a splash.
> 
> And yes, comparing a wrestling PPV to a minor level boxing PPV is acceptable. I'm not sure if you follow the sport but if you do, like I have for 30 years, then you know that boxing outside of a few big names, is a niche sport in the US. It has been for decades now, since the end of the Tyson era. For AEW, supposedly this company on the rise which claimed they were "bringing a sports based presentation" to not compete with the lowest of the low PPVs out there is a big issue.
> 
> That's just my point and like many lapsed wrestling fans, I tuned into the first few weeks of AEW hoping for it to be something more...it isn't and it can't be as long as they stick to their toxic fanbase.


This is possibly the best post I’ve seen in here in some time. 



DammitChrist said:


> The individual that you quoted here made arguably the most sensible post of the day on here. It’s best if you (and company) take notes, especially since he just demonstrated how AEW is also growing in Brazil plus the United Kingdom too.


And this is not. How does this guy get away with speaking like he’s an authority on the subject of reason, especially when it’s obvious he’s not. Can someone please have a chat to him? 



bdon said:


> And yet Game of Thrones had 25% more people watching via DVR. You act as if people will find a way to watch Live no matter what when clearly that isn’t the goddamn case ACROSS all media platforms.


I didn’t say that they would always watch things love. GoT was not supposed to be live entertainment, was it? 



PushCrymeTyme said:


> if the bullet club storyline can recreate the magic of the og bullet club for first time american viewers who didnt watch njpw we could be seeing a boom


Bullet Club’s success in Japan is overstated by internet people. It didn’t actually do that well at the time. 



Chip Chipperson said:


> Let's be real, Bullet Club is an nWo parody that worked in Japan because it was unique and different.
> 
> Nobody knows Bullet Club except NJPW fans and any casual that tunes in will simply assume it's an nWo knockoff.


I’m sure fans have probably fostered it in by now, but I remember New Japan fans at the time telling me that they are convinced the people who mark out for The Bullet Club don’t actually watch New Japan.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> I don’t think you really grasp what I’m saying. I’m not saying they did better, or what if they did better. I’m saying they could have done better.


Sure, but it's totally baseless unless you can show another wrestling promotion that did benefit from it, by comparison. Having no live crowds at a live entertainments event - Yeh I think the more logical outcome would be that it's a detriment lol. Like all the other promotions. You keep hypothesising though if it makes you happy.


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> Sure, but it's totally baseless unless you can show another wrestling promotion that did benefit from it, by comparison. Having no live crowds at a live entertainments event - Yeh I think the more logical outcome would be that it's a detriment lol. Like all the other promotions. You keep hypothesising though if it makes you happy.


It’s not baseless. Having no crowds can be a detriment. Having no annoying crowds can also help. It can allow content to stand stronger. This has been demonstrably true, historically. You just don’t like hearing it. That’s not “baseless.” I don’t think that word means what you think it means.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> It’s not baseless. Having no crowds can be a detriment. Having no annoying crowds can also help. It can allow content to stand stronger. This has been demonstrably true, historically. You just don’t like hearing it. That’s not “baseless.” I don’t think that word means what you think it means.


Keep doubling down if you like it makes no difference to the reality of the situation that AEW and other wrestling promotions suffered from having no crowds, as would be logically expected. I'm sure if the Rock had a wrestling promotion it would have bucked the trend 🙄

I'll stick with reality though


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> Keep doubling down if you like it makes no difference to the reality of the situation that AEW and other wrestling promotions suffered from having no crowds, as would be logically expected. I'm sure if the Rock had a wrestling promotion it would have bucked the trend 🙄
> 
> I'll stick with reality though


Having no crowds affected AEW about as much as the news. When crowds come back, watch AEW get a limited boost, because they will hype shows...only for them to go right back down to where they are now.

It’s where they’ve always been since losing those who expressed initial interest. It’s where they stayed after Sting. It’s where they’ll stay after crowds return. If they return.

That’s the reality.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> That’s the reality.


No, reality is what is actually happening here and now lol. Not what the hypothetical future looks like in your head. You really struggle with that at times.

I don't disagree that the bump won't be massive or anything, I've never said that. Just that it's ridiculous to suggest that the pandemic has had anything but a negative effect on AEW as well as other promotions.

Let's move on.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> I didn’t say that they would always watch things love. GoT was not supposed to be live entertainment, was it?


If you’re going to claim my point is bullshit, don’t put caveats on my larger point. Hah

I was saying that media in general, from live television to movies to TV shows are just viewed differently than they ever have. It is the ADD nation.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Klitschko said:


> @LifeInCattleClass yea its pretty bad here. few coworkers have said that there is multiple states that have planned to do similar things and will start in a few hours. Tonight should be interesting.
> 
> Also it won't impact Dynamite at all though. They will get their usual 750-850k fans. A meteor could hit earth and somehow that show will still get its usual rating.


they have hit lower during the height of covid and election - they dropped to 650 twice i think

on the politics - its a fuckup - I saw the militant trump supported yesterday being mad that there was no coup plan in place from the president. they came to support him and he wasn't there to take over

I think pandora's box have been opened - scary for you guys - hope all stays safe


----------



## Pentagon Senior

I would have estimated 850k and maybe 0.36/0.37 demo for last night's stacked episode under normal circumstances. Whilst I agree that Dynamite doesn't tend to get massively affected by the news I can't imagine there would be no effect whatsoever. Especially considering the shock nature of yesterday's events. I'll guess it'll be sub 800k now, which is what you'd expect for a normal episode but not a special.

Not that any of that matters much this week. Hope our American brothers and sisters are staying strong in these unprecedented times.


----------



## fabi1982

Good to see Trump already "giving up" and things will be back to normal hopefully by end of the week. These people should all be put in jail so the other idiots realise that such things will have a reaction!!

So ratings will be useless this week. At the end it will be good for AEW as the show sucked most of the two hours and they can hide behind the idiots rioting for a low rating and they made a great move with the final sequence so people will watch anyways next week, even with a bad show


----------



## Pentagon Senior

fabi1982 said:


> Good to see Trump already "giving up" and things will be back to normal hopefully by end of the week. These people should all be put in jail so the other idiots realise that such things will have a reaction!!
> 
> So ratings will be useless this week. At the end it will be good for AEW as the show sucked most of the two hours and they can hide behind the idiots rioting for a low rating and they made a great move with the final sequence so people will watch anyways next week, even with a bad show


Fingers crossed you're right on the first part! What a mess

Genuine question, if this show sucked in your opinion (which is fair enough) can you point me in the direction of a weekly wrestling episode that you thought was very good? Nobody can argue with your opinion but I'm intruiged to know what current examples, if any, people would rate as a good show?


----------



## fabi1982

Pentagon Senior said:


> Fingers crossed you're right on the first part! What a mess
> 
> Genuine question, if this show sucked in your opinion (which is fair enough) can you point me in the direction of a weekly wrestling episode that you thought was very good? Nobody can argue with your opinion but I'm intruiged to know what current examples, if any, people would rate as a good show?


Yeah I really hope I am right, this shit needs to end and it seems at least that even Gump has realized this.

In regards to your other question, just watch this weeks NXT. Even though the main event of AEW was great and some other parts were fine to good, the NXT episode was great through and through. And basically every Smackdown the last couple month.

EDIT: and my "sucked" was probably a little bit exaggerated, it was more meant to what was expected through the advertisements, show itself was fine, just not good enough when you have one of your rare specials.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

fabi1982 said:


> Yeah I really hope I am right, this shit needs to end and it seems at least that even Gump has realized this.
> 
> In regards to your other question, just watch this weeks NXT. Even though the main event of AEW was great and some other parts were fine to good, the NXT episode was great through and through. And basically every Smackdown the last couple month.
> 
> EDIT: and my "sucked" was probably a little bit exaggerated, it was more meant to what was expected through the advertisements, show itself was fine, just not good enough when you have one of your rare specials.


OK cool. When I get the chance I'll check out this week's NXT or a recent Smackdown (which I had heard was improved). I enjoyed Dynamite lots, especially the last 30 mins, would probably score it 8/10 overall. I'm intruiged to see if I'm missing out on something better or if it's just a matter of taste 👍


----------



## fabi1982

Pentagon Senior said:


> OK cool. When I get the chance I'll check out this week's NXT or a recent Smackdown (which I had heard was improved). I enjoyed Dynamite lots, especially the last 30 mins, would probably score it 8/10 overall. I'm intruiged to see if I'm missing out on something better or if it's just a matter of taste 👍


Its always a matter of taste, especially with RAW, Smackdown and Dynamite are basically all sports entertainement and NXT is too niche and now hated by the AEW fans even though NXT is what Dynamite should have been  

I honestly think if you have someone who never watched any wrestling and is basically objective would watch RAW, Smackdown and Dynamite, she/he would actually rate them pretty similar. Because, hey, it is


----------



## Pentagon Senior

fabi1982 said:


> Its always a matter of taste, especially with RAW, Smackdown and Dynamite are basically all sports entertainement and NXT is too niche and now hated by the AEW fans even though NXT is what Dynamite should have been
> 
> I honestly think if you have someone who never watched any wrestling and is basically objective would watch RAW, Smackdown and Dynamite, she/he would actually rate them pretty similar. Because, hey, it is


Interesting. I used to enjoy the old format of NXT but only mainly the Takeovers and build up to them. I've not watched the new format much. 

I struggle with WWE main roster just because it's so stale imo. How many times can I get excited about seeing the same wrestler pushed then dropped then pushed again? I struggle to get invested. AEW has the benefit of being newer and I like that someone like Mox hasn't been overly exposed, the likes of Page, Darby, MJF have been held back somewhat so I'm still excited in their futures etc.

I'm surprised by your comment about Raw and Smackdown being similar, going off people's remarks on that forum and the shit Raw gets especially. Seems to be a bit of 'war' between them even though they're the same promotion 😅

But I'll check out Smackdown and NXT when I get the chance. I'd better stop taking this thread off topic now though 🙄


----------



## wrasslin_casual

Erik. said:


> Why should one promotion of wrestling be compared to a whole sport of boxing?


Huh, who did that? I'm comparing AEW to low level, singular boxing PPVs, not the entire sport.

But your entire defensive post proves my point - if the fans were realistic, they could help the company grow and provide a better entertainment product. Sadly you do not want to do that.


----------



## Erik.

wrasslin_casual said:


> Huh, who did that? I'm comparing AEW to low level, singular boxing PPVs, not the entire sport.
> 
> But your entire defensive post proves my point - if the fans were realistic, they could help the company grow and provide a better entertainment product. Sadly you do not want to do that.


But boxing is boxing.. Its one entity unlike AEW which is part of an umbrella of wrestling. Its not comparable at all.

What have I defended? All I did was pull apart your argument. I asked you what made you believe they were low PPV numbers and asked if you could compare them to other modern wrestling buy rates and a link or some evidence showing the company weren't happy with them and so far you haven't.

From that, you've sort of made up your mind that it means I don't want to see the company grow. 

I buy every PPV they put out. That by definition means I want to see the company grow.


----------



## wrasslin_casual

Erik. said:


> But boxing is boxing.. Its one entity unlike AEW which is part of an umbrella of wrestling. Its not comparable at all.


LOL ... you clearly know nothing about boxing. It is not one entity, which has actually been the driving force behind its downfall, particularly in the face of UFC, which is one entity. You know, if you didn't get so emotional you could actually research before you posted.


----------



## Erik.

wrasslin_casual said:


> LOL ... you clearly know nothing about boxing. It is not one entity, which has actually been the driving force behind its downfall, particularly in the face of UFC, which is one entity. You know, if you didn't get so emotional you could actually research before you posted.


No, UFC is an umbrella of MMA, much like Bellator, Pride, Strike Force. But to most, MMA equals UFC. But like Wrestling equals WWE. 

Boxing is boxing. It has different boxing promotions inside of it such as Matchroom, Queensbury, Golden Boy. But these promote fights and boxers WITHIN boxing. 

A C level boxing event is still a boxing event usually watched by those who love boxing. It's a bigger fanbase and will always be more relevant than an even nicher product about fake fighting. 

I'm not emotional pal. Just wondered why you couldn't find me any evidence or proof as to why the AEW PPV number is low in the context of current wrestling PPV buys and who within the company is disappointed with the numbers.

Feel free to let me know.

Also feel free to give me some buy rates to what's considered C level boxing events too. I'll let you know if I bought it.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

My understanding was that the buy rate % for ppv was seen as one of the most impressive metrics for AEW (compared with their weekly TV ratings)? Seems strange to pick that out as a negative point - if anything the weekly TV figures could be arguably better but the buy rate is good. The boxing comparison is definitely strange though. If we're going to assess the performance of an apple let's compare it with another apple rather than an orange.


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> No, reality is what is actually happening here and now lol. Not what the hypothetical future looks like in your head. You really struggle with that at times.
> 
> I don't disagree that the bump won't be massive or anything, I've never said that. Just that it's ridiculous to suggest that the pandemic has had anything but a negative effect on AEW as well as other promotions.
> 
> Let's move on.


No, you don’t get to just talk shit and then walk off. Is it reality that just because a company hasn’t had a good CEO in forever that it’s impossible they get one? Is it reality that if a good movie hasn’t been released in nine months that it is impossible to make a good movie?

Reality is that millions upon millions of people were stuck at home and that neither wrestling company did much of anything to be hook them. 



bdon said:


> If you’re going to claim my point is bullshit, don’t put caveats on my larger point. Hah
> 
> I was saying that media in general, from live television to movies to TV shows are just viewed differently than they ever have. It is the ADD nation.


How is AEW viewed differently? Doesn’t viewing it on a TNT app get factored into ratings?

No, it’s not the ADD Nation. That’s a cop-out boomers use and youre



Pentagon Senior said:


> My understanding was that the buy rate % for ppv was seen as one of the most impressive metrics for AEW (compared with their weekly TV ratings)? Seems strange to pick that out as a negative point - if anything the weekly TV figures could be arguably better but the buy rate is good. The boxing comparison is definitely strange though. If we're going to assess the performance of an apple let's compare it with another apple rather than an orange.


PPV was inflated by Meltzer to make AEW look good. He compares worldwide guys through smart technology in 2019/2020 with archaic domestic PPV delivery metrics of whenever it suits him.

AEW has a good TV viewer to PPV buyer conversation rate, but that just speaks to hardcore the viewer is. There’s a downside to that, because you’re not attracting casuals.

60k domestic buys in the US is not that impressive.


----------



## The Wood

By the way, Raw’s rating was way up. This would imply that AEW’s rating goes up too. Don’t confuse that with growth.

Only thing that would throw a spanner in the works is that some of the extra viewers that tuned in to Raw might actually be fans that don’t prioritise wrestling, so the news might actually affect them.


----------



## zaz102

The Wood said:


> By the way, Raw’s rating was way up. This would imply that AEW’s rating goes up too. Don’t confuse that with growth.
> 
> Only thing that would throw a spanner in the works is that some of the extra viewers that tuned in to Raw might actually be fans that don’t prioritise wrestling, so the news might actually affect them.


FYI, there's virtually no correlation between trend of AEW with Raw, Smackdown, or NXT. I created a trend for 2019/2020 to see if there was going to be and there's really not. I can post if anyone's interested.


----------



## bdon

zaz102 said:


> FYI, there's virtually no correlation between trend of AEW with Raw, Smackdown, or NXT. I created a trend for 2019/2020 to see if there was going to be and there's really not. I can post if anyone's interested.


He’s not haha


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The Wood said:


> By the way, Raw’s rating was way up. This would imply that AEW’s rating goes up too. Don’t confuse that with growth.
> 
> Only thing that would throw a spanner in the works is that some of the extra viewers that tuned in to Raw might actually be fans that don’t prioritise wrestling, so the news might actually affect them.


Not this week, ratings will be in a toilet thanks to Trumps stuff.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

uhmmmm - 750, but still a good demo - 0.32


----------



## The Wood

zaz102 said:


> FYI, there's virtually no correlation between trend of AEW with Raw, Smackdown, or NXT. I created a trend for 2019/2020 to see if there was going to be and there's really not. I can post if anyone's interested.


You’re getting lost in the weeds, son.

Can you find me a week where Raw has had a record low where AEW has also not been down from its previous week? That’s when the dirt sheet writers compare the current week to the previous week, and use a better week for Raw to justify a better week for AEW beating a terrible week for Raw in the 18-22 pet owner demo.


----------



## Aedubya

Not as bad as I was expecting due to Trump

Did it beat NXT ?


----------



## The Wood

TKO Wrestling said:


> Not this week, ratings will be in a toilet thanks to Trumps stuff.


News will be up. AEW will be entirely within its normal range.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

LifeInCattleClass said:


> uhmmmm - 750, but still a good demo - 0.32


ps> this was just my prediction


----------



## The Wood

People who watch wrestling religiously aren’t sitting around thinking “Man, my wrestling’s on, but I can’t take my eyes off this Trump news.” They will watch the news before, after, or on their phone. People who don’t usually watch wrestling might watch the news at that time.

The news will dominate the Showbuzz charts, but the actual numbers for AEW and NXT will be virtually what people expect.


----------



## zaz102

The Wood said:


> You’re getting lost in the weeds, son.
> 
> Can you find me a week where Raw has had a record low where AEW has also not been down from its previous week? That’s when the dirt sheet writers compare the current week to the previous week, and use a better week for Raw to justify a better week for AEW beating a terrible week for Raw in the 18-22 pet owner demo.


Not really sure what you're talking about with previous week or demo and who beat who.

What im saying is the trends show at if viewership goes up for Raw over the same weeks, they dont necessarily go up for AEW and vice versa.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Dynamite will get what it Normal gets which is its 800k viewers. The news doesn’t affect its viewership and never has going by all the trends that happened. No one’s going to stop watching Dynamite to watch the news and they didn’t even do that for Raw or SmackDown (especially with SmackDown being on the worst night of television).


----------



## rbl85

Ozell Gray said:


> Dynamite will get what it Normal gets which is its 800k viewers. The news doesn’t affect its viewership and never has going by all the trends that happened. No one’s going to stop watching Dynamite to watch the news and they didn’t even do that for Raw or SmackDown (especially with SmackDown being on the worst night of television).


It's not everyday that some people storm inside the Capitol


----------



## The Wood

zaz102 said:


> Not really sure what you're talking about with previous week or demo and who beat who.
> 
> What im saying is the trends show at if viewership goes up for Raw over the same weeks, they dont necessarily go up for AEW and vice versa.


Cool. 👍

It’s how you apply “data.” Ratings fluctuate by 10% either way. You’re getting lost in the weeds because you’re actually charting these things on crude apps and measuring gradients without applying common sense.

Raw has a great week, it boosts all of wrestling. Can you find a week where Raw has done really well but AEW has been in the toilet?

When Raw does really, really shit, AEW is down from the previous weeks, what? 9/10 times? I think Raw went down and AEW went up for Winter is Coming? Yay? Big whoop. Generally speaking, Raw sets the tone, because the wrestling audience is the wrestling audience.

We all know this to be true, but will go to all this insane work to try and turn this into a war, when it’s really not. 



rbl85 said:


> It's not everyday that some people storm inside the Capitol


Just like it’s not every day there’s a Presidential debate, or the Queen gets coronavirus, or Marlon Brando comes back from the dead to eat children.

The news is on a 24/7, easier to access than ever cycle. The number of people watching it at the time Dynamite is on might absolutely smoke Dynamite, but they aren’t the people who would normally watch Dynamite.


----------



## zaz102

rbl85 said:


> It's not everyday that some people storm inside the Capitol


Nor is it even true. They've drawn 800K to 850k 2x since September. And one was literally 850k


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> No, you don’t get to just talk shit and then walk off. Is it reality that just because a company hasn’t had a good CEO in forever that it’s impossible they get one? Is it reality that if a good movie hasn’t been released in nine months that it is impossible to make a good movie?
> 
> Reality is that millions upon millions of people were stuck at home and that neither wrestling company did much of anything to be hook them.


He's back again 😉

I get what you're saying and yes it's good to aim for improvements along those lines. I think we're crossing wires now to be honest as my only initial point was relating to analysing the ratings data and that the huge drop off at the start of lockdown was a result of that, just like it was across the board. I'm not for one second saying people shouldn't try to deal with situations better and it's noble of you to think that way. Personally, I'm not at all surprised that a new company dealing in live events with crowds, whilst trying to find their feet, were affected negatively by the unprecedented events of last year. In fact, I'd be totally shocked if that didn't happen.

Anyway, I can barely remember the start of this conversation which was probably a couple days ago now lol. Will it help if I concede and say you win? 🙂


----------



## zaz102

The Wood said:


> Cool.
> 
> It’s how you apply “data.” Ratings fluctuate by 10% either way. You’re getting lost in the weeds because you’re actually charting these things on crude apps and measuring gradients without applying common sense.
> 
> Raw has a great week, it boosts all of wrestling. Can you find a week where Raw has done really well but AEW has been in the toilet?
> 
> When Raw does really, really shit, AEW is down from the previous weeks, what? 9/10 times? I think Raw went down and AEW went up for Winter is Coming? Yay? Big whoop. Generally speaking, Raw sets the tone, because the wrestling audience is the wrestling audience.
> 
> We all know this to be true, but will go to all this insane work to try and turn this into a war, when it’s really not.
> 
> 
> 
> Just like it’s not every day there’s a Presidential debate, or the Queen gets coronavirus, or Marlon Brando comes back from the dead to eat children.
> 
> The news is on a 24/7, easier to access than ever cycle. The number of people watching it at the time Dynamite is on might absolutely smoke Dynamite, but they aren’t the people who would normally watch Dynamite.


Yeah, I've never done that specific analysis, buts its just as easy to do a calculation week to week and see the numbers. When I get some time ill check it out and post it.


----------



## RainmakerV2

So do ratings not come out at 4 pm anymore?


----------



## 3venflow

I think there's still a New Year delay, although to what extent I'm unsure.


----------



## VIP86

i'm going to make a realistic prediction here

AEW Dynamite 18,500,000 viewers / 4.93 Demo
WWE NXT 2 viewers (HHH & HBK watched the show together) 0.00 Demo


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> He's back again 😉
> 
> I get what you're saying and yes it's good to aim for improvements along those lines. I think we're crossing wires now to be honest as my only initial point was relating to analysing the ratings data and that the huge drop off at the start of lockdown was a result of that, just like it was across the board. I'm not for one second saying people shouldn't try to deal with situations better and it's noble of you to think that way. Personally, I'm not at all surprised that a new company dealing in live events with crowds, whilst trying to find their feet, were affected negatively by the unprecedented events of last year. In fact, I'd be totally shocked if that didn't happen.
> 
> Anyway, I can barely remember the start of this conversation which was probably a couple days ago now lol. Will it help if I concede and say you win? 🙂


No, it won’t help. You’re constantly trying to jab at people and get away with it (look he’s back again). Winning is just a byproduct of what I do, haha. Ratings may have stumbled _because the shows sucked._ That doesn’t mean the shows had to suck.

Some folks want to blame the pandemic for the shows sucking as opposed to the promotion. Just like they want to blame the news, the weather, frogs mating on another channel, etc.


----------



## Ozell Gray

rbl85 said:


> It's not everyday that some people storm inside the Capitol


Doesn't matter. It's not everyday that big news events happens either like the debate and Dynamite still got it's average 800k viewers.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> He’s not haha


Post it


----------



## BPG

at NXT they break their jaws and still have 600 ...


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Post it


Try asking the person who has it...


----------



## 3venflow

BPG said:


> at NXT they break their jaws and still have 600 ...


NXT had a 6+ minute overrun again so it could be closer than expected. Despite Excalibur again teasing it (like he did during Kenny/Mox), AEW still hasn't gone past the two hours.


----------



## BPG

on RAW they put people to sleep and have 2 plus .... where logic


----------



## zaz102

The Wood said:


> No, it won’t help. You’re constantly trying to jab at people and get away with it (look he’s back again). Winning is just a byproduct of what I do, haha. Ratings may have stumbled _because the shows sucked._ That doesn’t mean the shows had to suck.
> 
> Some folks want to blame the pandemic for the shows sucking as opposed to the promotion. Just like they want to blame the news, the weather, frogs mating on another channel, etc.


There is definitely an argument to be made about the pandemic having an effect. The major US Sports finals going on at the time (NBA, NHL, MLB) all had their lowest rating ever. By a significant amount too.

AEW was new, started to get somewhat steady ratings, had its second biggest drop after initial pop coinciding with the pandemic, and rose back to where it was before.

Is that all a coincidence? Even if you think so, how can you ignore the argument.


----------



## Klitschko

I


3venflow said:


> NXT had a 6+ minute overrun again so it could be closer than expected. Despite Excalibur again teasing it (like he did during Kenny/Mox), AEW still hasn't gone past the two hours.


I really don't think they are allowed overruns and are just pretending like it could go on to fool the fans.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> No, it won’t help. You’re constantly trying to jab at people and get away with it (look he’s back again). Winning is just a byproduct of what I do, haha. Ratings may have stumbled _because the shows sucked._ That doesn’t mean the shows had to suck.
> 
> Some folks want to blame the pandemic for the shows sucking as opposed to the promotion. Just like they want to blame the news, the weather, frogs mating on another channel, etc.


The 'look he's back again' was referring to the fact we've been debating for several days. Probably not as funny as it sounded in my head - sorry if it caused offence.

On the rest, what can I say, I strongly disagree with your perspective on the effects of the pandemic and how it could/should have been turned into a positive. There's no point in us repeating ourselves and we're allowed different opinions - so let's agree to disagree.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW: 662,000 (0.25)

NXT: 641,000 (0.16)

News channels pulled away a lot of viewers, according to PW Torch (who got the ratings first like last week).


----------



## RainmakerV2

3venflow said:


> AEW: 662,000 (0.25)
> 
> NXT: 641,000 (0.16)
> 
> News channels pulled away a lot of viewers, according to PW Torch (who got the ratings first like last week).


Ouch.


----------



## The XL 2

Yikes


----------



## VIP86

3venflow said:


> AEW: 662,000 (0.25)
> 
> NXT: 641,000 (0.16)
> 
> News channels pulled away a lot of viewers, according to PW Torch (who got the ratings first like last week).


Goddamnit, my prediction was really close 🤦‍♂️


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> AEW: 662,000 (0.25)
> 
> NXT: 641,000 (0.16)
> 
> News channels pulled away a lot of viewers, according to PW Torch (who got the ratings first like last week).


woof, hard sink


----------



## A PG Attitude

Its not that surprising. It was a once in a lifetime news story and car crash TV at that. I had an evening of TV I wanted to watch last night and I wound up watching the news for 5 hours 😂


----------



## Klitschko

Well I was wrong. I kept saying it wouldn't impact them.


----------



## fabi1982

Most impressive thing with the ratings is NXT grew audience and demo although news was everywhere. And Dynamite actually got hit for the first time by such „non- normal happenings“. But will be back to 850 next week for sure.


----------



## DammitChrist

Let's just say that yesterday was a DARK day over here.


----------



## bdon

A PG Attitude said:


> Its not that surprising. It was a once in a lifetime news story and car crash TV at that. I had an evening of TV I wanted to watch last night and I wound up watching the news for 5 hours 😂


It was unprecedented stuff that you see ONCE in a lifetime.


----------



## rbl85

Told you that the news were going to destroyed everything because what happened was unprecedented


----------



## bdon

fabi1982 said:


> Most impressive thing with the ratings is NXT grew audience and demo although news was everywhere. And Dynamite actually got hit for the first time by such „non- normal happenings“. But will be back to 850 next week for sure.


They have their very, very loyal fanbase.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> They have their very, very loyal fanbase.


Older viewers tend to be more "loyal" to a show.
Since the start of aew, Dynamite have Always been hit hard when a sport event was on or when something Big happened in the news


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Wowzers - took a hit!


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> Try asking the person who has it...


Totally wasn't paying attention lol


zaz102 said:


> FYI, there's virtually no correlation between trend of AEW with Raw, Smackdown, or NXT. I created a trend for 2019/2020 to see if there was going to be and there's really not. I can post if anyone's interested.


Post it


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Big drop, but the stuff on news yesterday was crazy. I suppose though going based off NXT though, AEW's number still wasn't good.


----------



## K4L318

we all cant wait for dat Orange turd to leave office


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1347301952498130952
I'm not going to shit on AEW for this because it was an overall good show and you all should know what's happening at the state capitol right now. Domestic terrorism is a much bigger deal than Wednesday night wrestling.*


----------



## K4L318

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Big drop, but the stuff on news yesterday was crazy. I suppose though going based off NXT though, AEW's number still wasn't good.


bruh LMAO, last night was historic.


----------



## Seafort

bdon said:


> They have their very, very loyal fanbase.


AEW has more casuals. That’s evident


----------



## TeamFlareZakk

AEW's ratings are posative ratings, unlike WWE's ratings in which are pretty much people sleeping and disappointed viewers its not posative ratings for WWE.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

K4L318 said:


> bruh LMAO, last night was historic.


Oh I agree. NXT didn't go down like AEW did though (and actually went up). I'm not saying hold this number against them or that it's indicative of the product (because obviously there were extraordinary circumstances yesterday)... only that it's not a good number.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Can’t blame people for not watching. I didn’t want to watch. USA was under attack yesterday


----------



## rexmundi

As expected and documented before, AEW takes a big hit with major news events. NXT actually went up from their rating a week ago. And they want to tell you that AEW'S fans are a cult. lol


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Omg here we go. “AEW is going out of business” come on trolls, get it out of your system. Yesterday was historic and a big moment in history so it’s understandable nobody watched live. Miss me with the AEW bashing.


----------



## Mister Sinister

It's fair to say that they are lucky they didn't get a lower rating than that with Vince Russo writing the news yesterday. Nobody expected an invasion angle in the middle of joint session of Congress. Next week there will be a mud wrestling match on the White House lawn between the first lady and Kim Kardashian.


----------



## bdon

Mister Sinister said:


> It's fair to say that they are lucky they didn't get a lower rating than that with Vince Russo writing the news yesterday. Nobody expected an invasion angle in the middle of joint session of Congress. Next week there will be a mud wrestling match on the White House lawn between the first lady and Kim Kardashian.


Hahah


----------



## Dizzie

Forget the nba/NFL hurting the wrestling biz, it's the news this past year with covid, blm protests, presidential race and general trump associated madness that is making wrestling audience switch channels


----------



## Chip Chipperson

3venflow said:


> AEW: 662,000 (0.25)
> 
> NXT: 641,000 (0.16)
> 
> News channels pulled away a lot of viewers, according to PW Torch (who got the ratings first like last week).





A PG Attitude said:


> Its not that surprising. It was a once in a lifetime news story and car crash TV at that. I had an evening of TV I wanted to watch last night and I wound up watching the news for 5 hours 😂





rbl85 said:


> Told you that the news were going to destroyed everything because what happened was unprecedented





BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1347301952498130952
> I'm not going to shit on AEW for this because it was an overall good show and you all should know what's happening at the state capitol right now. Domestic terrorism is a much bigger deal than Wednesday night wrestling.*


In response to all of these why did AEW struggle and NXT do well? News was on while NXT aired also.



RubberbandGoat said:


> Omg here we go. “AEW is going out of business” come on trolls, get it out of your system. Yesterday was historic and a big moment in history so it’s understandable nobody watched live. Miss me with the AEW bashing.


Sir, nobody said your beloved Dub is dying.


----------



## zaz102

In case people are wondering how AEW ratings viewership changes week-to-week correlates to NXT, Raw, and Smackdown viewership changes week-to-week, I created some trends.

The graphs were created % change from the previous week for the shows. A week start in Monday and end is Friday. I then calculated the difference between Dynamite and each of the other shows to determine the difference.

A perfect correlation is 0%.When AEW does better than the other show are the positive values and if the other show did better, it is negative.

Below the links, I counted how many many time there was a difference at >5% and >10%. The most correlated is NXT at 82.1% time <10% difference. The least correlated is Smackdown at 74.5% time <10% difference. Although, Raw is pretty close to Smackdown.

Note that the total of number of weeks are adjusted based on the weeks that when there was a show was pre-empted and could not be compared.

Dynamite vs NXT Correlation
Dynamite-vs-NXT-Viewership
Difference > 5%: 16/56 = 28.6%
Difference > 10%: 10/56 = 17.9%


Dynamite vs Raw Correlation
Dynamite-vs-Raw-Correlation
Difference > 5%: 21/57 = 36.8%
Difference > 10%: 14/57 = 24.6%


Dynamite vs Smackdown Correlation
Dynamite-vs-Smackdown-Correlation
Difference > 5%: 22/55 = 40.0%
Difference > 10%: 14/55 = 25.5%


----------



## validreasoning

Seafort said:


> AEW has more casuals. That’s evident


This forum traffic and iwc in general suggests otherwise

Wrestling fans these days are just more likely to tune into what they consider "special events" compared to normal weekly shows

While last night AEW show was a special event they did poor job relying that to people overall.


----------



## Ozell Gray

NXT went up while Dynamite dropped but Dynamite will get back the 800k next week.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Chip Chipperson said:


> In response to all of these why did AEW struggle and NXT do well? News was on while NXT aired also.
> 
> 
> 
> Sir, nobody said your beloved Dub is dying.


*Below 700k isn't "well." It's just slightly better than last week's shit show because it was presented like a Psuedo Takeover.*


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> In response to all of these why did AEW struggle and NXT do well? News was on while NXT aired also.
> 
> 
> 
> Sir, nobody said your beloved Dub is dying.


Do I get to use @The Wood story? “They have more fans to lose.” Haha

I know I am kidding, but your excuse for why WWE continues losing fans makes sense, no matter how funny it does sound. It seems there is a baseline of about 1.2 million fans who will watch cable television wrestling each week. SmackDown being on Fox offers free, over-the-air broadcast television in the states. Have a TV with bunny ear antenna? You can pick up SmackDown.

But there definitely seems to be a baseline of 1.2 million fans who will be watching wrestling when Jesus Christ decides to split the Eastern sky. Lol


----------



## NathanMayberry

Big yikes on the ratings... 


Were you guys too busy storming the capital to watch Dynamite yesterday?


----------



## DammitChrist

NathanMayberry said:


> Big yikes on the ratings...
> 
> 
> Were *you guys too busy storming the capital* to watch Dynamite yesterday?


I know that you're kidding here; but God, I really hope that none of the (regular) Dynamite viewers were actually a part of that debacle yesterday.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Vice President Bison Man is a certified ratings draw. I can't wait for his first promo.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> I know that you're kidding here; but God, I really hope that none of the (regular) Dynamite viewers were actually a part of that debacle yesterday.


I saw a guy who looked an awful lot like Chris Jericho making his charge at the guards tbh.


----------



## chronoxiong

NBA is back too guys. That will take away a lot of viewers. Sad to hear AEW's great show only drew over 600k viewers this week.


----------



## La Parka

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1347301952498130952
> I'm not going to shit on AEW for this because it was an overall good show and you all should know what's happening at the state capitol right now. Domestic terrorism is a much bigger deal than Wednesday night wrestling.*


Everything’s a bigger deal than Wednesday night wrestling.


----------



## Sidloo

The excuses of AEW dropping 300,000 people is the saddest thing I've seen


----------



## DammitChrist

Sidloo said:


> The excuses of AEW dropping 300,000 people is the saddest thing I've seen


How is what happened yesterday somehow supposed to be an "excuse?"

It's a perfectly valid reason.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> How is what happened yesterday somehow supposed to be an "excuse?"
> 
> It's a perfectly valid reason.


It's funny because when NXT rated badly going against the NBA the AEW fans shouted from the rooftops that it wasn't an excuse and if a fanbase is loyal they will watch anyway.

3-4 weeks later and it's now "There was a major news event occurring that's why the number is down"


----------



## The Wood

NXT actually went up, guys. Blaming the news is reactionary. There were about 1.3 million people watching. That’s the hardcore audience of each show. The floating 200k may have gone to the news, but that impacts both shows.

This was just a tighter week than usual for whatever reason (don’t know what NXT had going on — was it the Balor/O’Reilly match and an overrun?).

It’s probably a better argument to blame Raw for giving people their wrestling fix that early in the week.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> NXT actually went up, guys. Blaming the news is reactionary. There were about 1.3 million people watching. That’s the hardcore audience of each show. The floating 200k may have gone to the news, but that impacts both shows.
> 
> This was just a tighter week than usual for whatever reason (don’t know what NXT had going on — was it the Balor/O’Reilly match and an overrun?).


AEW lost the 200k “floaters” as you call them that seem to watch AEW far more regularly than NXT, evidenced by the W-L numbers.

You’re right that AEW isn’t creating “new” fans, but you don’t get to bury your head in the sand and pretend that AEW isn’t regularly winning the ratings on Wednesday.

Like you suggested about Raw’s year over year loss of fans (paraphrasing of course), “They have more fans to lose.”


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> AEW lost the 200k “floaters” as you call them that seem to watch AEW far more regularly than NXT, evidenced by the W-L numbers.
> 
> You’re right that AEW isn’t creating “new” fans, but you don’t get to bury your head in the sand and pretend that AEW isn’t regularly winning the ratings on Wednesday.
> 
> Like you suggested about Raw’s year over year loss of fans (paraphrasing of course), “They have more fans to lose.”


Don't tell em' Bdon.

AEW should be winning the ratings much more than they currently do. Keep in mind AEW has a roster worth on a minimum 20-25 million whilst NXT is maybe 5 million max.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> AEW lost the 200k “floaters” as you call them that seem to watch AEW far more regularly than NXT, evidenced by the W-L numbers.
> 
> You’re right that AEW isn’t creating “new” fans, but you don’t get to bury your head in the sand and pretend that AEW isn’t regularly winning the ratings on Wednesday.
> 
> Like you suggested about Raw’s year over year loss of fans (paraphrasing of course), “They have more fans to lose.”


Yeah, of course they get most of them most weeks. AEW hot-shots out the ass while NXT occasionally does a tent-pole show. And when they do, they usually do well. NXT obviously isn’t out there trying to floor it. Marathon, not a sprint, and all that.

Those floaters still haven’t been made proper fans of AEW. They’ll go anywhere else.

You seemed to actually grasp what I meant by “more fans to lose” (if that’s even the wording I used) in an earlier post. Now you seem to have gone backwards on it.

Raw can afford to lose 300k because they’re still 1 million in front of AEW, and when the bottom falls out, it’s going to fall out harder for AEW. They’ve just got hardcores watching now.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Don't tell em' Bdon.
> 
> AEW should be winning the ratings much more than they currently do. Keep in mind AEW has a roster worth on a minimum 20-25 million whilst NXT is maybe 5 million max.


Agreed. That’s a fair assessment.

People on the other side of the aisle being illogical doesn’t mean we have to pretend those 200k fans that choose AEW over NXT damn near weekly are “floaters”.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Agreed. That’s a fair assessment.
> 
> People on the other side of the aisle being illogical doesn’t mean we have to pretend those 200k fans that choose AEW over NXT damn near weekly are “floaters”.


These are the same people who will float over to NXT when they do a special episode. These are the ones who jump when AEW gets boring out of the blue.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Yeah, of course they get most of them most weeks. AEW hot-shots out the ass while NXT occasionally does a tent-pole show. And when they do, they usually do well. NXT obviously isn’t out there trying to floor it. Marathon, not a sprint, and all that.
> 
> Those floaters still haven’t been made proper fans of AEW. They’ll go anywhere else.
> 
> You seemed to actually grasp what I meant by “more fans to lose” (if that’s even the wording I used) in an earlier post. Now you seem to have gone backwards on it.
> 
> Raw can afford to lose 300k because they’re still 1 million in front of AEW, and when the bottom falls out, it’s going to fall out harder for AEW. They’ve just got hardcores watching now.


Your point hasn’t changed. Raw has more fans to lose without it hitting them harder. Guess what? AEW has more fans weekly than NXT, so they had that 30% to spare. Just like Raw has the 25% to spare losing year over year.

I love ya, dude, and you ain’t wrong about this shit. You just aren’t fair when it comes to AEW specifically and will use arguments for everyone else then ignore that argument when it favors AEW. That is the definition of being intellectually dishonest.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Yeah, I get Wood's point here. AEW might attract the floaters most weeks but they're not loyal to either show so it's hard to count them as AEW fans.

AEW has it's 650-750k regular fans and the 200,000 floaters that will go with them when something big is on. That's where they're at currently. Five years from now? Who knows?


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Your point hasn’t changed. Raw has more fans to lose without it hitting them harder. Guess what? AEW has more fans weekly than NXT, so they had that 30% to spare. Just like Raw has the 25% to spare losing year over year.
> 
> I love ya, dude, and you ain’t wrong about this shit. You just aren’t fair when it comes to AEW specifically and will use arguments for everyone else then ignore that argument when it favors AEW. That is the definition of being intellectually dishonest.


I really don’t get what you’re saying, lol. So you understand what I mean when a bunch of casuals might leave Raw (casuals being used liberally here), whereas AEW’s static fan-base are just their hardcores, which Raw isn’t about to lose either.

This is like if AEW started on 1.4 million and dropped to...oh...


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> I really don’t get what you’re saying, lol. So you understand what I mean when a bunch of casuals might leave Raw (casuals being used liberally here), whereas AEW’s static fan-base are just their hardcores, which Raw isn’t about to lose either.
> 
> This is like if AEW started on 1.4 million and dropped to...oh...


Damn near every week AEW is the one with those 200k fans. You don’t get to call them floaters when it is the diehard of diehard fans who show up religiously.

Sure, when massive things are going on in the world, it reverts back to the same 1.2 million as we saw this week, but it does not explain why “when shit isn’t hitting the fan in the world”, those so-called floaters choose AEW over NXT. Can almost set your goddamn watch by AEW beating NXT. As they should.

Just stop trying to spin that shit as if AEW is on equal footing with NXT at 600k fans. It ain’t the case. As we see each and every goddamn week. Intellectual dishonesty pisses me off more than anything.


----------



## thorn123

Just ridiculous, another example of a quality tv episode not finding an audience.


----------



## Buhalovski

So when AEW is losing a massive amount of audience "people just watch the news".

But when NXT is gaining numbers on the same fucking week nothing happens... teehe


----------



## IronMan8

I’m surprised by this week’s rating.

I fast-forwarded Cody’s match and the women’s match, but otherwise this felt like an excellent show.

Next week’s number will hopefully reflect what I think I’m seeing, which is a slow burn AEW surge into attracting that 2nd million.

The past month or so would’ve been AEW’s most palatable for that 2nd million, so I really would expect an increase next week. They’re sitting on a few angles, particularly Sting, but Kenny’s angle has been top notch for any kind of wrestling fan.

The way I’d describe AEW’s ratings situation right now is they have plenty of bullets in the chamber, so to say.


----------



## Mr316

Here’s a simple fact. AEW will never grow much more than where they are now. They will always average around 800k and sonetimes close to 1 million when something big is advertised. Why it won’t grow? Because it’s not a product for casuals and it’s too late now. Casuals gave them a chance on their very first show and they left.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Mr316 said:


> Here’s a simple fact. AEW will never grow much more than where they are now. They will always average around 800k and sonetimes close to 1 million when something big is advertised. Why it won’t grow? Because it’s not a product for casuals and it’s too late now. Casuals gave them a chance on their very first show and they left.


but also, saying 800k average like its a bad thing - they are top 5 most weeks

by all accounts are profitable or near enough / and when the pandemic is over will get a gate revenue again + they have good PPV buys

there's not really much to complain about

the only time things will get interesting again, is contract renewal time


----------



## 3venflow

Mr316 said:


> Here’s a simple fact. AEW will never grow much more than where they are now.


I said this to another poster some weeks ago, but this is an opinion, not a fact. Trying to predict the business in two years isn't easy, nevermind 10 years. 1995-2001 is a good example of a six year span when so much changed.

Example: Tony Khan hires someone who gives the product a different direction. This person either a). grows AEW or b). burns it to the ground.

Example 2: AEW strikes it lucky with someone who turns out to be the next major pro wrestling star. Building around him, the company gains momentum and doubles its audience.

These are generic examples, but show that it's just pointless to state as a 'fact' what will or won't happen. AEW could be dead in 10 years, could be right where it is now in 10 years, or could even be closer to WWE in 10 years.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> I said this to another poster some weeks ago, but this is an opinion, not a fact. Trying to predict the business in two years isn't easy, nevermind 10 years. 1995-2001 is a good example of a six year span when so much changed.
> 
> Example: Tony Khan hires someone who gives the product a different direction. This person either a). grows AEW or b). burns it to the ground.
> 
> Example 2: AEW strikes it lucky with someone who turns out to be the next major pro wrestling star. Building around him, the company gains momentum and doubles its audience.
> 
> These are generic examples, but show that it's just pointless to state as a 'fact' what will or won't happen. AEW could be dead in 10 years, could be right where it is now in 10 years, or could even be closer to WWE in 10 years.


so much sense in one post

can we pin it?


----------



## Pentagon Senior

3venflow said:


> I said this to another poster some weeks ago, but this is an opinion, not a fact. Trying to predict the business in two years isn't easy, nevermind 10 years. 1995-2001 is a good example of a six year span when so much changed.
> 
> Example: Tony Khan hires someone who gives the product a different direction. This person either a). grows AEW or b). burns it to the ground.
> 
> Example 2: AEW strikes it lucky with someone who turns out to be the next major pro wrestling star. Building around him, the company gains momentum and doubles its audience.
> 
> These are generic examples, but show that it's just pointless to state as a 'fact' what will or won't happen. AEW could be dead in 10 years, could be right where it is now in 10 years, or could even be closer to WWE in 10 years.


People on this board seem to struggle with the difference between fact and subjective opinion


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pentagon Senior said:


> People on this board seem to struggle with the difference between fact and subjective opinion


NO WE DON'T! FACT!


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> I know that you're kidding here; but God, I really hope that none of the (regular) Dynamite viewers were actually a part of that debacle yesterday.


That would be such a mundane way to end a night lol. Storm a government building, then just go home and watch TV of any kind. Maybe a pass if you're watching yourself on the news lol


----------



## RapShepard

The Wood said:


> Yeah, of course they get most of them most weeks. AEW hot-shots out the ass while NXT occasionally does a tent-pole show. And when they do, they usually do well. NXT obviously isn’t out there trying to floor it. Marathon, not a sprint, and all that.
> 
> Those floaters still haven’t been made proper fans of AEW. They’ll go anywhere else.
> 
> You seemed to actually grasp what I meant by “more fans to lose” (if that’s even the wording I used) in an earlier post. Now you seem to have gone backwards on it.
> 
> Raw can afford to lose 300k because they’re still 1 million in front of AEW, and when the bottom falls out, it’s going to fall out harder for AEW. They’ve just got hardcores watching now.


NXT hot shots too though, Keith Leet won the NXT title on TV last year. I don't think this is a case of NXT not trying. It's a thing of they just haven't found a way to convince fans that is more important to catch NXT live instead of watching Dynamite live and catching the WWE Network replay.


----------



## 3venflow

An absolute massacre by the news on Wednesday. But look at this: AEW (#48) did _better_ in the 50+ than their usually strong 18-49 demo.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> An absolute massacre by the news on Wednesday. But look at this: AEW (#48) did _better_ in the 50+ than their usually strong 18-49 demo.
> 
> View attachment 95603


fact that they even made top 50 is impressive

election time they were outside the 50


----------



## One Shed

A bunch of crazies breach the Capitol for the first time in over 200 years and we are surprised people watched the news all day? The sad part is something more insane is likely to be happening next Wednesday.


----------



## wrasslin_casual

Pentagon Senior said:


> My understanding was that the buy rate % for ppv was seen as one of the most impressive metrics for AEW (compared with their weekly TV ratings)? Seems strange to pick that out as a negative point - if anything the weekly TV figures could be arguably better but the buy rate is good. The boxing comparison is definitely strange though. If we're going to assess the performance of an apple let's compare it with another apple rather than an orange.


The comparison is simple, I compared it to lower level boxers, who are not known by anyone other than hardcore fans and they pull in better PPV numbers than a wrestling show the fans on here keep claiming is doing really well. My point is simple, if AEW wants to be mainstream, it has a long way to go and the 100k (at best) ppv numbers are not the way to go.


----------



## Prized Fighter

Anyone saying this weeks rating mean anything for AEW or NXT is ridiculous. We had a once in a lifetime event happen in this country. An actual insurrection against our governments highest ranking officials. Wrestling just isn't as important as real world events and that isn't an indictment on the products.

Good shows always tend to show up on the next week's ratings anyway, so it will be more interesting to see what January 13th show does. Assuming no more major events happen in this country.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

LifeInCattleClass said:


> fact that they even made top 50 is impressive
> 
> election time they were outside the 50


Legitimate growth. This is the first week in 7 weeks that they didn't beat their year prior numbers. The big news kills AEW, 1/20 will be even worse.


----------



## One Shed

TKO Wrestling said:


> Legitimate growth. This is the first week in 7 weeks that they didn't beat their year prior numbers. The big news kills AEW, 1/20 will be even worse.


The inauguration being on a Wednesday is certainly not going to help but we can only hope after that the news will return to a certain normalcy. I think we need a few years of boring news here in the US honestly.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Two Sheds said:


> The inauguration being on a Wednesday is certainly not going to help but we can only hope after that the news will return to a certain normalcy. I think we need a few years of boring news here in the US honestly.


I think we have 3 years coming for sure and then in 2024 all hell will break loose again.


----------



## Sidloo

DammitChrist said:


> How is what happened yesterday somehow supposed to be an "excuse?"
> 
> It's a perfectly valid reason.











But please keep on going with this deluded narrative that it was affected by Capitol building, Incident wouldn't want to hurt people fragile ego here


----------



## rbl85

Sidloo said:


> View attachment 95605
> 
> But please keep on going with this deluded narrative that it was affected by Capitol building, Incident wouldn't want to hurt people fragile ego here


I fail to understand what you want to show here.


----------



## zaz102

Edit: Deleted post.


----------



## Not Lying

I can’t believe at this point the rational posters here are still entertaining the trolls. 
You must be completely brain dead to think the news didn’t affect AEW’s rating.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Two Sheds said:


> The inauguration being on a Wednesday is certainly not going to help but we can only hope after that the news will return to a certain normalcy. I think we need a few years of boring news here in the US honestly.


the inauguration is wednesday?!!!

why does big news hate AEW???


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I’ll tell you this much, everybody moaning about a massive drop, better be here with the same energy when they ‘gain 300k new viewerssss!’


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the inauguration is wednesday?!!!
> 
> why does big news hate AEW???


Yeah, it is always January 20th at noon Eastern time unless the 20th falls on a Sunday. It should be over long before 8pm, but we all know there are likely to be shenanigans.


----------



## VIP86

let's be reasonable here
AEW fan base is affected heavily by the news channels since day one.
in other words: the news was the main culprit for the big drop this wednesday


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> NXT hot shots too though, Keith Leet won the NXT title on TV last year. I don't think this is a case of NXT not trying. It's a thing of they just haven't found a way to convince fans that is more important to catch NXT live instead of watching Dynamite live and catching the WWE Network replay.


The notion that people just chose to not watch the company’s best efforts and found it unimportant only applies to AEW. Haven’t you figured this out?


----------



## fabi1982

rbl85 said:


> I fail to understand what you want to show here.


He shows that the overall number and the demo for both NBA games were higher on Wednesday than the week before. Not sure how this is hard to understand?!


----------



## bdon

fabi1982 said:


> He shows that the overall number and the demo for both NBA games were higher on Wednesday than the week before. Not sure how this is hard to understand?!


The prior week kicked off with a game involving the fucking Pelicans. Haha


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> The prior week kicked off with a game involving the fucking Pelicans. Haha


I didnt want to give an opinion with my post, I just wanted to answer rbl‘s question  so off course it could be better games or whatever.


----------



## bdon

fabi1982 said:


> I didnt want to give an opinion with my post, I just wanted to answer rbl‘s question  so off course it could be better games or whatever.


Yeah. New Orleans doesn’t draw worth a shit. They are a team that isn’t mainstream. Bucks and Houston are teams that are “good”, but Milwaukee, despite Giannis’ greatness, is not a team that inspires casuals to show up.

Anyone pretending goddamn Congress being overran by right-wing nut jobs isn’t going to have an impact on television ratings is just looking for their piece of the Confirmation Bias Pie.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

Pentagon Senior said:


> Some folks are actually going there lol 🙈
> 
> We get to see who the classy ones aren't 😉


Well, those who always look at the negative all the time are never accused of being the ones who are classy.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

TKO Wrestling said:


> They are coming from all corners of Australia, it is tough to keep up with.


Their toilets flush in the other direction so it is understandable their viewpoints are opposite of ours when you look at it that way.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> Yeah. New Orleans doesn’t draw worth a shit. They are a team that isn’t mainstream. Bucks and Houston are teams that are “good”, but Milwaukee, despite Giannis’ greatness, is not a team that inspires casuals to show up.
> 
> Anyone pretending goddamn Congress being overran by right-wing nut jobs isn’t going to have an impact on television ratings is just looking for their piece of the Confirmation Bias Pie.


I knew ratings would be down. But holy shit it surprises me how long folk can watch the news with slow updates at that lol.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> I knew ratings would be down. But holy shit it surprises me how long folk can watch the news with slow updates at that lol.


What part of the country are you from?

I only ask, because the Bible Belt/flyover country LOVES them some trainwreck news stories. That scene in the sci-if movie, Signs, is a great depiction when the old man in the library is watching the news of the Aliens and says, “13!! Aha!! 13 soda commercials! This is all a big conspiracy to sell Soda!!!” Paraphrasing of course.

That’s flyover country/backwoods/Bible Belt/rural/whatever you want to call it to a T. If my granny were still alive, she would be sitting in her rocker, reading a book, and one ear on the scanner waiting for some news to be popping “up the road”. Haha


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> What part of the country are you from?
> 
> I only ask, because the Bible Belt/flyover country LOVES them some trainwreck news stories. That scene in the sci-if movie, Signs, is a great depiction when the old man in the library is watching the news of the Aliens and says, “13!! Aha!! 13 soda commercials! This is all a big conspiracy to sell Soda!!!” Paraphrasing of course.
> 
> That’s flyover country/backwoods/Bible Belt/rural/whatever you want to call it to a T. If my granny were still alive, she would be sitting in her rocker, reading a book, and one ear on the scanner waiting for some news to be popping “up the road”. Haha


Ohio specifically Columbus. Like I love a good trainwreck and ratchet shit as much as the next person, but it's the repetitiveness for me lol. Like do I really need pundit #72 to reiterate the same disgust as the previous 71 pundits lol. I know election night a female asked me to come kick it with her because she was scared. After a hour if watching votes not come in I had to just tell her to change and we'd turn back in a few hours


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Ohio specifically Columbus. Like I love a good trainwreck and ratchet shit as much as the next person, but it's the repetitiveness for me lol. Like do I really need pundit #72 to reiterate the same disgust as the previous 71 pundits lol. I know election night a female asked me to come kick it with her because she was scared. After a hour if watching votes not come in I had to just tell her to change and we'd turn back in a few hours


Haha


----------



## bdon

I live in southern WV, but I have family that live in Columbus, which I’m sure you know plenty of “Ohio by way of WV” folk.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> I live in southern WV, but I have family that live in Columbus, which I’m sure you know plenty of “Ohio by way of WV” folk.


Yes my grandparents are from Buffalo and Crites, WV lol


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Yes my grandparents are from Buffalo and Crites, WV lol


Bro! Check ya messages! Lol


----------



## One Shed

RapShepard said:


> Yes my grandparents are from Buffalo and Crites, WV lol





bdon said:


> Bro! Check ya messages! Lol


I really hope you guys end up being related or something haha. That would be fun.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

TKO Wrestling said:


> They are coming from all corners of Australia, it is tough to keep up with.





ripcitydisciple said:


> Their toilets flush in the other direction so it is understandable their viewpoints are opposite of ours when you look at it that way.


You guys must not have passed third grade geography.

The Wood is the only Australian you're debating with. Soooo many Australians!11!!


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Damn near every week AEW is the one with those 200k fans. You don’t get to call them floaters when it is the diehard of diehard fans who show up religiously.
> 
> Sure, when massive things are going on in the world, it reverts back to the same 1.2 million as we saw this week, but it does not explain why “when shit isn’t hitting the fan in the world”, those so-called floaters choose AEW over NXT. Can almost set your goddamn watch by AEW beating NXT. As they should.
> 
> Just stop trying to spin that shit as if AEW is on equal footing with NXT at 600k fans. It ain’t the case. As we see each and every goddamn week. Intellectual dishonesty pisses me off more than anything.


Except when NXT wins. AEW’s “loyal” audience is about the same. Are they getting the floaters most weeks? Sure. But not all the time. Don’t speak to me about dishonesty and then make that out, haha. 



Pentagon Senior said:


> People on this board seem to struggle with the difference between fact and subjective opinion


Yes, you do.



RapShepard said:


> NXT hot shots too though, Keith Leet won the NXT title on TV last year. I don't think this is a case of NXT not trying. It's a thing of they just haven't found a way to convince fans that is more important to catch NXT live instead of watching Dynamite live and catching the WWE Network replay.


They do, but not necessarily in a bad way. They are far more likely to build to big shows instead of just dropping Winter is Coming, Sting is here, New Year’s Smash and Beach Blowjob or whatever it’s called in the same six weeks or whatever.

If you don’t want to give NXT credit, call it mechanical or inorganic, but they seem to understand better, structurally, how to build to jey



3venflow said:


> An absolute massacre by the news on Wednesday. But look at this: AEW (#48) did _better_ in the 50+ than their usually strong 18-49 demo.
> 
> View attachment 95603


How many MORE people were watching TV on that day than just didn’t want to watch AEW?

Just another reminder that NXT grew their audience.


----------



## The Wood

Two Sheds said:


> The inauguration being on a Wednesday is certainly not going to help but we can only hope after that the news will return to a certain normalcy. I think we need a few years of boring news here in the US honestly.


I hope for your sake that’s true, but don’t go planning on it.


----------



## Pippen94

The idea that there's any relationship between dynamite & raw ratings is absolute bullshit.
Graphs in below link show dramatic decline this year for raw not mirrored by dynamite. Also, most peaks for both don't fall on same week.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1347586464977182721
@Firefromthegods @Chrome this is a section for ratings & numbers so it should be easy to back up statements with evidence. 
Too many false arguments being allowed here


----------



## CM Buck

Then debate them? I only care about false arguments if it incites people in this thread. I don't so much allow them as I just don't care about this thread as a whole.

From that tweet it seems like its true what you are saying?


----------



## Pippen94

Firefromthegods said:


> Then debate them? I only care about false arguments if it incites people in this thread. I don't so much allow them as I just don't care about this thread as a whole.
> 
> From that tweet it seems like its true what you are saying?


I would've thought it's part of your remit to stop ppl trolling & derailing topics with nonsense.
Ratings & trends etc quantifiable by numbers easily found online.
Simple solution would be to have ppl who state something as fact in this section to support it with evidence / link


----------



## CM Buck

Pippen94 said:


> I would've thought it's part of your remit to stop ppl trolling & derailing topics with nonsense.
> Ratings & trends etc quantifiable by numbers easily found online.
> Simple solution would be to have ppl who state something as fact in this section to support it with evidence / link


It is. But I'm biased against this thread. I just leave people to their own devices in here and only come up if there's drama.

I think you guys should be able to refute things. I can't delete dodge posts. Just ask people to use reputable sources.

Chrome can delete them though


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Except when NXT wins. AEW’s “loyal” audience is about the same. Are they getting the floaters most weeks? Sure. But not all the time. Don’t speak to me about dishonesty and then make that out, haha.


Yes. Those NINE weeks that NXT won out of 76 possible weeks.

Nine wins. Goddamn AEW really does A LOT of hotshotting, eh hotshot?


----------



## Pippen94

Among top non news show on Wednesday




__





UPDATED: SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Top 150 Wednesday Cable Originals & Network Finals: 1.6.2021 | Showbuzz Daily







www.showbuzzdaily.com


----------



## zaz102

Firefromthegods said:


> It is. But I'm biased against this thread. I just leave people to their own devices in here and only come up if there's drama.
> 
> I think you guys should be able to refute things. I can't delete dodge posts. Just ask people to use reputable sources.
> 
> Chrome can delete them though


Yeah I know how you feel lol. I've created a bunch of trends and analysis based on data to get an idea of numbers and get arguments based on people's "feeling" on the situation.


----------



## Randy Lahey

The only thing the ratings proved this week is that NXT has a very old audience, and these are apparently the only old people that don't flip to the news. So really very little affects NXT. It's a show that nobody but old diehards watch. While AEW, way more mainstream casual audience, and a casual audience will get pulled to other events if the other event is big enough.


----------



## bdon

Randy Lahey said:


> The only thing the ratings proved this week is that NXT has a very old audience, and these are apparently the only old people that don't flip to the news. So really very little affects NXT. It's a show that nobody but old diehards watch. While AEW, way more mainstream casual audience, and a casual audience will get pulled to other events if the other event is big enough.


AEW DOESN’T HAVE CASUALS!!!!!

/sarcasm


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> Yes. Those NINE weeks that NXT won out of 76 possible weeks.
> 
> Nine wins. Goddamn AEW really does A LOT of hotshotting, eh hotshot?


For what it's worth I saw on Reddit that AEW had booked like 20 specials this year.

As we've said in the past AEW should be winning a lot more every week. Jericho, JR and Sting are worth more than the entire NXT roster combined.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> For what it's worth I saw on Reddit that AEW had booked like 20 specials this year.
> 
> As we've said in the past AEW should be winning a lot more every week. Jericho, JR and Sting are worth more than the entire NXT roster combined.


I don’t give a shit about the why’s. I fucking agree with them. AEW SHOULD be winning, but you’ll have to excuse me when I call out bullshit like pretending 200k people don’t pretty regularly choose AEW over NXT.

You know I call out bullshit and stand shoulder to shoulder when the pro-AEW crowd starts chirping bullshit, so I must stand when I hear some of this shit the last couple days.

Just a few days ago it was, “WWE lost roughly 500k plus viewers, because they have more of them to lose.” Why is this same logic fucking ignored when AEW’s 200k plus casual fans choose to watch something else? Those fans tend to return in a week’s time, unlike Vince’s who seem to just be dropping a 100k every 3rd month.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> For what it's worth I saw on Reddit that AEW had booked like 20 specials this year.
> 
> As we've said in the past AEW should be winning a lot more every week. Jericho, JR and Sting are worth more than the entire NXT roster combined.


Last year wwe Wednesday featured; Sasha Banks, HHH, Shawn Michaels, Charlotte Flair.
How many times they out rank aew in nightly ratings??


----------



## fabi1982

Randy Lahey said:


> The only thing the ratings proved this week is that NXT has a very old audience, and these are apparently the only old people that don't flip to the news. So really very little affects NXT. It's a show that nobody but old diehards watch. While AEW, way more mainstream casual audience, and a casual audience will get pulled to other events if the other event is big enough.


Ignoring the growth in „the demo“ then? Ignoring that other non-news shows didnt lose as much demo/viewers?

I dont want to argue that the news had an impact on the rest of television programming, but it gets really old to bring this „only old people watch“, as the old people watching dynamite is not that much less.

So I can understand people bring ther opinion in, when everything AEW „fans“ can do is bring the grandpa argument...


----------



## validreasoning

Pippen94 said:


> Last year wwe Wednesday featured; Sasha Banks, HHH, Shawn Michaels, Charlotte Flair.
> How many times they out rank aew in nightly ratings??


NXT beat Dynamite 748k to 633k the night Sasha Banks wrestled.

When were Shawn Michaels and HHH on NXT and what did they do?



Randy Lahey said:


> The only thing the ratings proved this week is that NXT has a very old audience, and these are apparently the only old people that don't flip to the news. So really very little affects NXT. It's a show that nobody but old diehards watch. *While AEW, way more mainstream casual audience*, and a casual audience will get pulled to other events if the other event is big enough.


What do you base this on though? When AEW aired after NBA it was clear those fans hadn't seen it before..that wouldn't be the case if like you are claiming they had a mainstream casual audience.

I think both shows are hardcore viewers mostly. You see jump for AEW when they announce big event in advance but again I would assume those are more casual wrestling fans watching not mainstream audience.


----------



## 3venflow

Here's what Jericho said about the key demo on his podcast:

“It’s so funny when people don’t understand [the importance of] the demo. That’s specifically why we went from an ad rev share TV show, this is public news I’m not giving anything away, to 175 million for four years. That was only three months after we started AEW Dynamite. And that’s *specifically because of the demo*.”

“To keep an eye on that demo is so important. That’s why I even wanted to work with Orange Cassidy. It’s 100 years ago it seems, because I used to see the kids in the crowd dressed up as Orange Cassidy. I used to see the kids in the crowd dressed as Darby Allin. Jimmy Hart told me years ago, ‘you can’t force somebody to write a sign. You can’t force somebody to dress up as your as their hero.'”


----------



## Pippen94

validreasoning said:


> NXT beat Dynamite 748k to 633k the night Sasha Banks wrestled.
> 
> When were Shawn Michaels and HHH on NXT and what did they do?
> 
> 
> 
> What do you base this on though? When AEW aired after NBA it was clear those fans hadn't seen it before..that wouldn't be the case if like you are claiming they had a mainstream casual audience.
> 
> I think both shows are hardcore viewers mostly. You see jump for AEW when they announce big event in advance but again I would assume those are more casual wrestling fans watching not mainstream audience.


Great, now when did wwe Wednesday outrank aew in 2020??

Shawn heavily promoted for this









WWE NXT: Finn Balor, Kyle O'Reilly meet face-to-face


NXT Champion Finn Balor sat down with his challenger Kyle O'Reilly for a face-to-face interview moderated by living legend Shawn Michaels on WWE NXT.




www.google.com





Hhh inserted himself in Adam Cole / Pat McAfee feud & other stuff









Pat McAfee just punted Adam Cole and got tossed by Triple H







www.google.com













WWE NXT Results - 3/25/20 (Triple H makes an announcement, two qualifying matches) - WWE News, WWE Results, AEW News, AEW Results


WWE NXT Results March 25, 2020 Winter Park, Florida (Full Sail University) Commentary: Tom Phillips and Byron Saxton…




www.google.com













Triple H, Shawn Michaels and Road Dogg announce 'WWE NXT Takeover: In Your House' PPV


In the recent episode of WWE NXT, Triple H & Shawn Michaels announced that the upcoming 'WWE NXT Takeover: In Your House' PPV will air on Sunday, June 7, 2020.




www.google.com


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Go Big Show - largest unscripted debut on TBS in 3 years

'The extreme talent competition, hosted by Bert Kreischer, premiered to 1.0 million total viewers and 384,000 in the advertiser-favorite demographic of adults aged 18-49'


----------



## 3venflow

Cody rHHHodes the mainstream star. Give him a two-year title reign! 😏


----------



## bdon

3venflow said:


> Cody rHHHodes the mainstream star. Give him a two-year title reign! 😏


He should do like all other mainstream stars and leave wrestling now. For good.


----------



## Prosper

bdon said:


> He should do like all other mainstream stars and leave wrestling now. For good.


The guy says he’s retiring at 40 so he’s got about 5 years left.


----------



## bdon

prosperwithdeen said:


> The guy says he’s retiring at 40 so he’s got about 5 years left.


He’d be gone in a heartbeat if Hollywood came calling. He doesn’t give two shits about Tony Khan, the Elite, AEW, or anything else. He is ONLY about Cody rHHHodes.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> He’d be gone in a heartbeat if Hollywood came calling. He doesn’t give two shits about Tony Khan, the Elite, AEW, or anything else. He is ONLY about Cody rHHHodes.


----------



## The Wood

Lol, SmackDown got 2 million viewers. I guess the news stopped.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Well the news cycle of Capitol Hill is still going and SmackDown went up this week so what’s Dynamite’s excuse?


----------



## Pippen94

Ozell Gray said:


> Well the news cycle of Capitol Hill is still going and SmackDown went up this week so what’s Dynamite’s excuse?


Insurrection happened Wednesday, Ted Koppel


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pippen94 said:


> Insurrection happened Wednesday, Ted Koppel


The news is still talking about it today kid.


----------



## DammitChrist

Gee, it’s almost like Wednesday was the day when the Capitol building debacle occurred (which apparently a huge incident like this hasn’t happened to that building in OVER TWO CENTURIES), and Friday was the day where nothing really traumatic happened.

Jesus Christ, some of these takes on here (where you’re low-key rooting for the company to ‘fail’) are beyond awful.


----------



## DaSlacker

+ Smackdown isn't head to head with another hyped up live wrestling show. That will always been an anchor for growth.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Lol, SmackDown got 2 million viewers. I guess the news stopped.


What happened to 4 million viewers?


----------



## Pippen94

Ozell Gray said:


> The news is still talking about it today kid.


@Platt @Firefromthegods Are you going to do something about this bullying!? I was told I wouldn't be subjected to this outside of rants. Ozell Gray is part of group which received warning!!


----------



## CM Buck

@The Wood and @Ozell Gray don't bring up that disgusting capital attack in here. Especially if you are using it to attack aew. That's just gross


----------



## VIP86

The Wood said:


> Lol, SmackDown got 2 million viewers. I guess the news stopped.





Ozell Gray said:


> Well the news cycle of Capitol Hill is still going and SmackDown went up this week so what’s Dynamite’s excuse?


this argument will be valid if Dynamite and Smackdown were on the same day
these days viewers have a very short attention span
what happens in wednesday and is covered by the news
will largely die down by friday
that's why it affected Dynamite and didn't affect Smackdown
plus in wednesday the incident was happening LIVE
by friday it was just something that happened 2 days ago
also the past few months showed that AEW fan base is for some reason affected heavily by what happens in the news, more than WWE

that's just my observation


----------



## bdon

VIP86 said:


> this argument will be valid if Dynamite and Smackdown were on the same day
> these days viewers have a very short attention span
> what happens in wednesday and is covered by the news
> will largely die down by friday
> that's why it affected Dynamite and didn't affect Smackdown
> plus in wednesday the incident was happening LIVE
> by friday it was just something that happened 2 days ago
> also the past few months showed that AEW fan base is for some reason affected heavily by what happens in the news, more than WWE
> 
> that's just my observation


Seriously. Look no further than social media.


----------



## NathanMayberry

VIP86 said:


> this argument will be valid if Dynamite and Smackdown were on the same day


This argument is only being made because Bryan Alvarez saw fit to compare Smackdown to Dynamite even though they were on two different nights, because it meant he score a win for the Dub that week.


Its funny seeing AEW fans who loved the comparison that week, complain about it every single time it is made since.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> Great, now when did wwe Wednesday outrank aew in 2020??
> 
> Shawn heavily promoted for this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WWE NXT: Finn Balor, Kyle O'Reilly meet face-to-face
> 
> 
> NXT Champion Finn Balor sat down with his challenger Kyle O'Reilly for a face-to-face interview moderated by living legend Shawn Michaels on WWE NXT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hhh inserted himself in Adam Cole / Pat McAfee feud & other stuff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pat McAfee just punted Adam Cole and got tossed by Triple H
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WWE NXT Results - 3/25/20 (Triple H makes an announcement, two qualifying matches) - WWE News, WWE Results, AEW News, AEW Results
> 
> 
> WWE NXT Results March 25, 2020 Winter Park, Florida (Full Sail University) Commentary: Tom Phillips and Byron Saxton…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Triple H, Shawn Michaels and Road Dogg announce 'WWE NXT Takeover: In Your House' PPV
> 
> 
> In the recent episode of WWE NXT, Triple H & Shawn Michaels announced that the upcoming 'WWE NXT Takeover: In Your House' PPV will air on Sunday, June 7, 2020.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com


Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't you arguing a week or two ago with me that names didn't mean anything? It was definitely someone on this forum.

Also, I think some of these are dishonest.

- People aren't really tuning in just to see HBK interview someone unless they're huge HBK fans.

- Triple H's spot to my knowledge wouldn't have been promoted it was just a spur of the moment thing.

- The two announcements I'll give you but really they're using the legends the way they should be.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Chip Chipperson said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't you arguing a week or two ago with me that names didn't mean anything? It was definitely someone on this forum.
> 
> Also, I think some of these are dishonest.
> 
> - People aren't really tuning in just to see HBK interview someone unless they're huge HBK fans.
> 
> - Triple H's spot to my knowledge wouldn't have been promoted it was just a spur of the moment thing.
> 
> - The two announcements I'll give you but really they're using the legends the way they should be.


Personally I think the whole hotshotting argument is a bit silly - if you've got tools to hand why wouldn't you use those tools to get a boost occasionally. I don't see an issue with AEW nor NXT doing it too excessively to be honest. But if we're going to be fair and reasonable we have to be consistent in our analysis. You've used this as a stick to bash AEW with (predictably) Chip, now here you are defending NXT for it. You can't have it both ways lol. 

Really, it's a non issue and doesn't affect the fact that AEW have consistently dominated NXT in the ratings - and rightfully so.


----------



## validreasoning

Pippen94 said:


> Great, now when did wwe Wednesday outrank aew in 2020??


Off top my my head I don't know. When they have promoted decently big name they seem to win though. Even Sasha at that time was on TV 3 times per week so really shouldn't have been that much of an attraction.



> Shawn heavily promoted for this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WWE NXT: Finn Balor, Kyle O'Reilly meet face-to-face
> 
> 
> NXT Champion Finn Balor sat down with his challenger Kyle O'Reilly for a face-to-face interview moderated by living legend Shawn Michaels on WWE NXT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com


I don't remember that appearance but what does Shawn offer these days. Like saying Jake Roberts has potential to draw viewers in 2021.



> Hhh inserted himself in Adam Cole / Pat McAfee feud & other stuff


He was on screen for like few seconds, not prompted or anything. I highly doubt people going to flock to see a suited HHH hold back a dude for few seconds.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pentagon Senior said:


> Personally I think the whole hotshotting argument is a bit silly - if you've got tools to hand why wouldn't you use those tools to get a boost occasionally. I don't see an issue with AEW nor NXT doing it too excessively to be honest. But if we're going to be fair and reasonable we have to be consistent in our analysis. You've used this as a stick to bash AEW with (predictably) Chip, now here you are defending NXT for it. You can't have it both ways lol.
> 
> Really, it's a non issue and doesn't affect the fact that AEW have consistently dominated NXT in the ratings - and rightfully so.


I like this post.

So first of all, a hotshot isn't really a bad thing when it's done occasionally. They boost business up and back in the day you could hotshot a gimmick match onto your territory loop and make a considerable amount of money on it and then air the footage on TV and build interest.

When the hotshot becomes a problem is when it's done too frequently. I'll use the dying days of TNA as an example. TNA was losing fan interest, they'd lost Spike and went from a million or whatever it was when they left to like 300-400 thousand if I recall correctly. In an attempt to boost things up they hotshotted gimmick matches and big moments on TV often racing to them without getting the fans emotionally invested and it worked at first but quickly died because every week there was a gimmick match, then they started doing PPV specials on TV so why would you buy a PPV when you can get one on TV for free every 6 weeks? This killed their PPV business.

They gave away huge matches on TV for free, gimmick matches, big moments, always trying to "shock" the audience with a big name signing or a big moment, overhyped minor moments etc etc. Sound familiar? 

Second, and in regards to NXT I've only watched a couple of episodes this year and haven't seen a hotshot episode so I can't really comment on them. None of the examples posted by Pippen were actual hotshots though. A Hall Of Famer making an announcement isn't a hotshot, having a Hall Of Famer conduct an interview on TV isn't a hotshot, Triple H getting involved in a scuffle isn't a hotshot. 

Now if NXT this week had Adam Cole come out on TV and talk some shit to Triple H and Triple H challenged him to a match next week on TV that would be a hotshot. They're desperately throwing something out there that could pop a big buyrate or sell tickets (If we weren't in COVID) just to pop a rating.

AEW does this and maybe NXT does also (You tell me).


----------



## CM Buck

Chip Chipperson said:


> I like this post.
> 
> So first of all, a hotshot isn't really a bad thing when it's done occasionally. They boost business up and back in the day you could hotshot a gimmick match onto your territory loop and make a considerable amount of money on it and then air the footage on TV and build interest.
> 
> When the hotshot becomes a problem is when it's done too frequently. I'll use the dying days of TNA as an example. TNA was losing fan interest, they'd lost Spike and went from a million or whatever it was when they left to like 300-400 thousand if I recall correctly. In an attempt to boost things up they hotshotted gimmick matches and big moments on TV often racing to them without getting the fans emotionally invested and it worked at first but quickly died because every week there was a gimmick match, then they started doing PPV specials on TV so why would you buy a PPV when you can get one on TV for free every 6 weeks? This killed their PPV business.
> 
> They gave away huge matches on TV for free, gimmick matches, big moments, always trying to "shock" the audience with a big name signing or a big moment, overhyped minor moments etc etc. Sound familiar?
> 
> Second, and in regards to NXT I've only watched a couple of episodes this year and haven't seen a hotshot episode so I can't really comment on them. None of the examples posted by Pippen were actual hotshots though. A Hall Of Famer making an announcement isn't a hotshot, having a Hall Of Famer conduct an interview on TV isn't a hotshot, Triple H getting involved in a scuffle isn't a hotshot.
> 
> Now if NXT this week had Adam Cole come out on TV and talk some shit to Triple H and Triple H challenged him to a match next week on TV that would be a hotshot. They're desperately throwing something out there that could pop a big buyrate or sell tickets (If we weren't in COVID) just to pop a rating.
> 
> AEW does this and maybe NXT does also (You tell me).


I guess raquel Gonzalez could be argued as a hotshot and possibly leon ruff becoming north American champ for 2 weeks?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Firefromthegods said:


> I guess raquel Gonzalez could be argued as a hotshot and possibly leon ruff becoming north American champ for 2 weeks?


I can't say because I don't know what you're talking about. A short title reign can sometimes be a hotshot but not necessarily. 

Vince Russo changing the WCW World Title every week was an example of a hotshot though. His theory being if he hotshotted title changes instead of building to them the ratings, gates etc would improve because people wouldn't know if they'd witness a title change.

Wrestling fans generally like longer title reigns though. It's not special to see a title change if the title changed a week earlier in another city.


----------



## CM Buck

Chip Chipperson said:


> I can't say because I don't know what you're talking about. A short title reign can sometimes be a hotshot but not necessarily.
> 
> Vince Russo changing the WCW World Title every week was an example of a hotshot though. His theory being if he hotshotted title changes instead of building to them the ratings, gates etc would improve because people wouldn't know if they'd witness a title change.
> 
> Wrestling fans generally like longer title reigns though. It's not special to see a title change if the title changed a week earlier in another city.


Oh I always thought that term was hot potato or is this the booking term equivalent of To-may-to/To-mah-to?


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Chip Chipperson said:


> I like this post.
> 
> So first of all, a hotshot isn't really a bad thing when it's done occasionally. They boost business up and back in the day you could hotshot a gimmick match onto your territory loop and make a considerable amount of money on it and then air the footage on TV and build interest.
> 
> When the hotshot becomes a problem is when it's done too frequently. I'll use the dying days of TNA as an example. TNA was losing fan interest, they'd lost Spike and went from a million or whatever it was when they left to like 300-400 thousand if I recall correctly. In an attempt to boost things up they hotshotted gimmick matches and big moments on TV often racing to them without getting the fans emotionally invested and it worked at first but quickly died because every week there was a gimmick match, then they started doing PPV specials on TV so why would you buy a PPV when you can get one on TV for free every 6 weeks? This killed their PPV business.
> 
> They gave away huge matches on TV for free, gimmick matches, big moments, always trying to "shock" the audience with a big name signing or a big moment, overhyped minor moments etc etc. Sound familiar?
> 
> Second, and in regards to NXT I've only watched a couple of episodes this year and haven't seen a hotshot episode so I can't really comment on them. None of the examples posted by Pippen were actual hotshots though. A Hall Of Famer making an announcement isn't a hotshot, having a Hall Of Famer conduct an interview on TV isn't a hotshot, Triple H getting involved in a scuffle isn't a hotshot.
> 
> Now if NXT this week had Adam Cole come out on TV and talk some shit to Triple H and Triple H challenged him to a match next week on TV that would be a hotshot. They're desperately throwing something out there that could pop a big buyrate or sell tickets (If we weren't in COVID) just to pop a rating.
> 
> AEW does this and maybe NXT does also (You tell me).


My point is I'm fine with it on both sides and I find the whole concept of hotshotting silly, unless it's done to an extreme level. It's not in either case, as far as I can tell. People more often moan that Dynamite doesn't have enough big matches than the other way around. We also know that the TV deal is the main income so there's actual logic to putting big matches every so often - it's not 'giving it away for free' when it's your main revenue stream.

The whole topic is big nothing-burger from where I'm sitting. Mainly an excuse for people looking for ammunition for their mud slinging.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Firefromthegods said:


> Oh I always thought that term was hot potato or is this the booking term equivalent of To-may-to/To-mah-to?


I've always known and heard it as hotshot. 



Pentagon Senior said:


> My point is I'm fine with it on both sides and I find the whole concept of hotshotting silly, unless it's done to an extreme level. It's not in either case, as far as I can tell. People more often moan that Dynamite doesn't have enough big matches than the other way around. We also know that the TV deal is the main income so there's actual logic to putting big matches every so often - it's not 'giving it away for free' when it's your main revenue stream.
> 
> The whole topic is big nothing-burger from where I'm sitting. Mainly an excuse for people looking for ammunition.


Yeah, fans should be fine with it. It's more free content and big moments for them that they don't have to pay for which is great.

From a business perspective though people probably would've paid to see Omega beat Mox for the championship and it was given to them for nothing. Kenny Vs Fenix as well is probably something that could've been a PPV main event but it was given away for free also.

There is no point in giving the big matches away for free when it doesn't pop a considerable rating. Nitro gave away Goldberg/Hogan for free but got an additional 700,000 viewers for the night so it made sense to an extent to hotshot that because it brought interest but AEW can offer up the biggest card possible and still do under a million.


----------



## CM Buck

Chip Chipperson said:


> I've always known and heard it as hotshot.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, fans should be fine with it. It's more free content and big moments for them that they don't have to pay for which is great.
> 
> From a business perspective though people probably would've paid to see Omega beat Mox for the championship and it was given to them for nothing. Kenny Vs Fenix as well is probably something that could've been a PPV main event but it was given away for free also.
> 
> There is no point in giving the big matches away for free when it doesn't pop a considerable rating. Nitro gave away Goldberg/Hogan for free but got an additional 700,000 viewers for the night so it made sense to an extent to hotshot that because it brought interest but AEW can offer up the biggest card possible and still do under a million.


Isn't it cause of covid that we are getting this stuff free? Or was full gear and all out not free this year and I just didn't notice?

Cause nxt also has been having tv special matches in which case they have been hot shotting


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Chip Chipperson said:


> I've always known and heard it as hotshot.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, fans should be fine with it. It's more free content and big moments for them that they don't have to pay for which is great.
> 
> From a business perspective though people probably would've paid to see Omega beat Mox for the championship and it was given to them for nothing. Kenny Vs Fenix as well is probably something that could've been a PPV main event but it was given away for free also.
> 
> There is no point in giving the big matches away for free when it doesn't pop a considerable rating. Nitro gave away Goldberg/Hogan for free but got an additional 700,000 viewers for the night so it made sense to an extent to hotshot that because it brought interest but AEW can offer up the biggest card possible and still do under a million.


None of that is an issue imo. They've kept plenty of big matches and feuds back, in fact people have been moaning about that too when it suits their argument. 9/10 times their ppv's have been well received. Also, Dynamite is their main revenue stream and they only do 4 ppv's per year - it's not wise to save all your good matches for four annual dates.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

bdon said:


> What happened to 4 million viewers?


Lol. They lost every fan they “gained” from the 20 million lead in two weeks ago.


----------



## Prosper

bdon said:


> What happened to 4 million viewers?


Not a single one was retained on cable. What I said would happen happened. All of wrestling is the same and the mainstream is not interested in any of it. I feel like a broken record. 

The drop off can't be used to discredit AEW anymore so you won't hear about it as prevalently as you heard it on X-Mas day. Just brush it under the rug. Typical.


----------



## bdon

I didn’t like the thought of Omega/Mox on free TV at first, but once Sting was introduced moments prior to that match, I thought it was genius. Casuals don’t know Omega, but they did after that. They saw Sting, defender of WCW, in one instant, and the next instant they see a company EVP skipping town with a rival company, world title in tow.

That was a great example of hotshotting and should have lead to theit average viewership raising by 50-150k people. They fucking ruined that by proceeding to throw out a Who’s Who of Dark matches.


----------



## 10gizzle

bdon said:


> I didn’t like the thought of Omega/Mox on free TV at first, but once Sting was introduced moments prior to that match, I thought it was genius. Casuals don’t know Omega, but they did after that. They saw Sting, defender of WCW, in one instant, and the next instant they see a company EVP skipping town with a rival company, world title in tow.
> 
> That was a great example of hotshotting and should have lead to theit average viewership raising by 50-150k people. *They fucking ruined that by proceeding to throw out a Who’s Who of Dark matches*.


Just curious what you mean by this (agree with your post).

Do you mean the follow up Dynamites were mostly trash?


----------



## Klitschko

prosperwithdeen said:


> Not a single one was retained on cable. What I said would happen happened. All of wrestling is the same and the mainstream is not interested in any of it. I feel like a broken record.
> 
> The drop off can't be used to discredit AEW anymore so you won't hear about it as prevalently as you heard it on X-Mas day. Just brush it under the rug. Typical.


I have to admit. I was wrong. I really thought Smackdown would retain at least 100k or 200k of that extra 2 million fans that tuned in to see that episode. It was a solid episode too. Kind of shocked that they retained nothing at all.


----------



## bdon

10gizzle said:


> Just curious what you mean by this (agree with your post).
> 
> Do you mean the follow up Dynamites were mostly trash?


Yes. They KNEW they had a winning formula to pop the shit out of the rating with Sting’s entrance followed by Omega’s “Changing the World” moment, and instead of giving the fans more info and background on Omega, Moxley, Page, Pac, Darby, MJF, etc, we got goddamn heartless tag match after tag match after tag match.

They just completely shit the bed when they had new eyes on them.

I always liken it to opening a restaurant and advertising the most incredible Wagyu steak for $5 a plate. Your restaurant stays at 1/2 capacity ALL day. Those patrons go home, tell their friends all about the amazing steak they had at such and such. Word of mouth spreads overnight, and the next day you open the doors to a crowd of people DYING for this steak they heard about. Every seat in the house has an ass in it and the waiting list is piling up outside...

And you proceed to offer Bologna sandwiches as your Daily Special.

Those customers are not only unlikely to ever give you restaurant another chance, but they are likely to not trust their friends’ word on “a great new restaurant” going forward, so you have to work twice as hard to come up with a meaningful hook to reel in those burned by you and their friends.


----------



## 10gizzle

bdon said:


> Yes. They KNEW they had a winning formula to pop the shit out of the rating with Sting’s entrance followed by Omega’s “Changing the World” moment, and instead of giving the fans more info and background on Omega, Moxley, Page, Pac, Darby, MJF, etc, we got goddamn heartless tag match after tag match after tag match.
> 
> They just completely shit the bed when they had new eyes on them.
> 
> I always liken it to opening a restaurant and advertising the most incredible Wagyu steak for $5 a plate. Your restaurant stays at 1/2 capacity ALL day. Those patrons go home, tell their friends all about the amazing steak they had at such and such. Word of mouth spreads overnight, and the next day you open the doors to a crowd of people DYING for this steak they heard about. Every seat in the house has an ass in it and the waiting list is piling up outside...
> 
> And you proceed to offer Bologna sandwiches as your Daily Special.
> 
> Those customers are not only unlikely to ever give you restaurant another chance, but they are likely to not trust their friends’ word on “a great new restaurant” going forward, so you have to work twice as hard to come up with a meaningful hook to reel in those burned by you and their friends.


Appreciate the explanation. 

Why do you think this is?

Is it just TK not having the experience/knowledge? If so, I mean you gotta believe the guy will get better and better as time goes on. 

Do you think AEW is purposely holding back to work different talents in so that once crowds are back, there are more established names?


----------



## Ozell Gray

VIP86 said:


> this argument will be valid if Dynamite and Smackdown were on the same day
> these days viewers have a very short attention span
> what happens in wednesday and is covered by the news
> will largely die down by friday
> that's why it affected Dynamite and didn't affect Smackdown
> plus in wednesday the incident was happening LIVE
> by friday it was just something that happened 2 days ago
> also the past few months showed that AEW fan base is for some reason affected heavily by what happens in the news, more than WWE
> 
> that's just my observation


So why doesn't it affect WWE then? You just AEW are more affected by the news then WWE so are they not getting hammered by the news like AEW are? Plus WWE deals with stiffer competition if you want to go down that road because Raw deals with Monday Night Football which gets more viewers combined then the news does. Dynamite went down but NXT went up so I'm not buying that it was the news. The viewers probably decided they didn't want to watch because there was nothing to get them excited to see what was going to happen.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Firefromthegods said:


> @The Wood and @Ozell Gray don't bring up that disgusting capital attack in here. Especially if you are using it to attack aew. That's just gross


I was only talking about SmackDown and Dynamite and why the news affected one show but not the other. I wasn't talking about the capitol attack itself. Only using the news as an example to compare two shows.


----------



## bdon

10gizzle said:


> Appreciate the explanation.
> 
> Why do you think this is?
> 
> Is it just TK not having the experience/knowledge? If so, I mean you gotta believe the guy will get better and better as time goes on.
> 
> Do you think AEW is purposely holding back to work different talents in so that once crowds are back, there are more established names?


I think TK, The Bucks, Omega, and JERICHO are too self-aware of their roles/job titles and are way too determined to not make the mistakes of the past in leaving their midcard scene feeling like there is a glass ceiling.

If you listen to Jericho, Konnan, Disco, etc discussing WCW, then you know the divide they felt. They were tearing down the house weekly only for Hogan and company to main event every week. Who main events will be seen as the star, the main attraction, the bread winner, etc. WCW’s money was that first hour of Nitro when the cruiser weights and midcard were can’t-miss TV and left you stuck to the TV while the quick vignettes and backstage segments built to the evening’s main story: whatever was expected to happen in the main event.

AEW’s problem is they AVOID that running story for the night. You get hot matches to start, lot of dreg for the middle of the show, and whatever for the main event.

In those follow-up to Winter is Coming Dynamite episodes specifically, it seemed TK and crew were determined to simply be nice and give a little kick back and chance to those guys not seen very often.

And that was dumb. Those two follow-up shows needed to be chock full of Omega, Cody, Hangman, Pac, Mox, MJF, Darby (in segments of his own and away from Cody), and the Lucha Bros.

Leadership IS thinking and caring about the lowest man on the totem pole, but it is also knowing when to make sacrifices for the greater good. TH2 or the Acclaimed or MJF/OC or any other bullshit they did could have been done any other week. It did not need to happen in front of your largest crowds.

TK is too nice. A Money Mark through and through.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pippen94 said:


> @Platt @Firefromthegods Are you going to do something about this bullying!? I was told I wouldn't be subjected to this outside of rants. Ozell Gray is part of group which received warning!!


There's no "bullying" here. You decided to pick a fight with me and now that I've replied to you you can't handle it. Don't reply to me if you don't want me to reply back.


----------



## bdon

Ozell Gray said:


> So why doesn't it affect WWE then? You just AEW are more affected by the news then WWE so are they not getting hammered by the news like AEW are? Plus WWE deals with stiffer competition if you want to go down that road because Raw deals with Monday Night Football which gets more viewers combined then the news does. Dynamite went down but NXT went up so I'm not buying that it was the news. The viewers probably decided they didn't want to watch because there was nothing to get them excited to see what was going to happen.


You’re full of shit. NXT had its baseline viewers. AEW had its baseline viewers. The casuals who typically choose AEW nearly 85% of the time didn’t show up on Wednesday. TWO fucking days after the attacks on Congress, and SmackDown saw its baseline viewers.

Again I’ll ask: where are those 4 million viewers you were bragging about a couple weeks ago?


----------



## Ozell Gray

bdon said:


> You’re full of shit. NXT had its baseline viewers. AEW had its baseline viewers. The casuals who typically choose AEW nearly 85% of the time didn’t show up on Wednesday. TWO fucking days after the attacks on Congress, and SmackDown saw its baseline viewers.
> 
> Again I’ll ask: where are those 4 million viewers you were bragging about a couple weeks ago?


I said after SmackDown got the 3.3 million viewers that it's going to drop down to 2.1 million that it averages. You go look through my post history where I said that. Not sure how I'm being dishonest when I literally said that.

As far as Dynamite goes you're proving my point. Those people didn't show up on Wednesday which caused a drop in viewership while NXT increased a little bit from the week before.


----------



## 10gizzle

bdon said:


> I think TK, The Bucks, Omega, and JERICHO are too self-aware of their roles/job titles and are way too determined to not make the mistakes of the past in leaving their midcard scene feeling like there is a glass ceiling.
> 
> If you listen to Jericho, Konnan, Disco, etc discussing WCW, then you know the divide they felt. They were tearing down the house weekly only for Hogan and company to main event every week. Who main events will be seen as the star, the main attraction, the bread winner, etc. WCW’s money was that first hour of Nitro when the cruiser weights and midcard were can’t-miss TV and left you stuck to the TV while the quick vignettes and backstage segments built to the evening’s main story: whatever was expected to happen in the main event.
> 
> AEW’s problem is they AVOID that running story for the night. You get hot matches to start, lot of dreg for the middle of the show, and whatever for the main event.
> 
> In those follow-up to Winter is Coming Dynamite episodes specifically, it seemed TK and crew were determined to simply be nice and give a little kick back and chance to those guys not seen very often.
> 
> And that was dumb. Those two follow-up shows needed to be chock full of Omega, Cody, Hangman, Pac, Mox, MJF, Darby (in segments of his own and away from Cody), and the Lucha Bros.
> 
> Leadership IS thinking and caring about the lowest man on the totem pole, but it is also knowing when to make sacrifices for the greater good. TH2 or the Acclaimed or MJF/OC or any other bullshit they did could have been done any other week. It did not need to happen in front of your largest crowds.
> 
> TK is too nice. A Money Mark through and through.


This is tremendous. Thanks.

Re: The Money Mark term - I have a problem with it.

First of all, wouldn't the only person who could pull off a major wrestling promotion on national TV *HAVE *to be a "money mark"?

I mean, is it bad that he loves wrestling and wants to rub shoulders with them? The guy is probably in some of the most inner of inner circles yet the guy would rather be in the wrestling business. Is that bad? Surely, it will lead to him being too nice, too lenient, too complacent. But he's a businessman. That shit won't last forever. Honeymoons wear off. 

I get the concept of him being "taken for a ride" financially, but frankly I think people who say that have no fucking clue what they're talking about. People forget that his dad owns the company and his dad isn't some idiot. This is a guy whoo made like 1 dollar an hour and is now worth 8B. He will not allow anything that bears his name to shit the bed, especially financially long term. (Just my opinion)

Like, I just see it as the only type of person who could ever potentially put a legitimate competitor to WWE would have to be a money mark. That is the one thing that will make him different. 

The fact that he's rich, and can do whatever the fuck he wats like buy whatever rights to whatever music. I love that about him. He's a dork, true. I think he panders endlessly. I think he's unbearable in interviews.

But in the end of the day, a lover of pro wrestling is investing into pro wrestling more than any other company in history (sans WCW), to me that is commendable. Just trying is respectable in my eyes.

The fuck do I know though...


----------



## bdon

Ozell Gray said:


> I said after SmackDown got the 3.3 million viewers that it's going to drop down to 2.1 million that it averages. You go look through my post history where I said that. Not sure how I'm being dishonest when I literally said that.
> 
> As far as Dynamite goes you're proving my point. Those people didn't show up on Wednesday which caused a drop in viewership while NXT increased a little bit from the week before.


NXT increased from a sub-600k number. Did we really expect them to lose 300k viewers like AEW did from the previous week? You may need to read @The Wood a little more often, because his reasoning behind WWE’s year over year drop makes the most sense: WWE and AEW have the extra casual viewers they can lose to more important programming.

NXT’s weekly average IS the baseline viewership. All this week proved is that when the world is potentially fucking ending, you can count on fans still choosing to watch AEW over NXT.


----------



## Ozell Gray

bdon said:


> NXT increased from a sub-600k number. Did we really expect them to lose 300k viewers like AEW did from the previous week? You may need to read @The Wood a little more often, because his reasoning behind WWE’s year over year drop makes the most sense: WWE and AEW have the extra casual viewers they can lose to more important programming.
> 
> NXT’s weekly average IS the baseline viewership. All this week proved is that when the world is potentially fucking ending, you can count on fans still choosing to watch AEW over NXT.


Well Raw and SmackDown have larger audiences than all other wrestling shows so they alot more people to lose. Just like Dynamite has alot more to lose than NXT. 

To add on to this Dynamite should be blowing NXT out of the water considering the pay scale for guys in AEW compared to NXT.


----------



## bdon

10gizzle said:


> This is tremendous. Thanks.
> 
> Re: The Money Mark term - I have a problem with it.
> 
> First of all, wouldn't the only person who could pull off a major wrestling promotion on national TV *HAVE *to be a "money mark"?
> 
> I mean, is it bad that he loves wrestling and wants to rub shoulders with them? The guy is probably in some of the most inner of inner circles yet the guy would rather be in the wrestling business. Is that bad? Surely, it will lead to him being too nice, too lenient, too complacent. But he's a businessman. That shit won't last forever. Honeymoons wear off.
> 
> I get the concept of him being "taken for a ride" financially, but frankly I think people who say that have no fucking clue what they're talking about. People forget that his dad owns the company and his dad isn't some idiot. This is a guy whoo made like 1 dollar an hour and is now worth 8B. He will not allow anything that bears his name to shit the bed, especially financially long term. (Just my opinion)
> 
> Like, I just see it as the only type of person who could ever potentially put a legitimate competitor to WWE would have to be a money mark. That is the one thing that will make him different.
> 
> The fact that he's rich, and can do whatever the fuck he wats like buy whatever rights to whatever music. I love that about him. He's a dork, true. I think he panders endlessly. I think he's unbearable in interviews.
> 
> But in the end of the day, a lover of pro wrestling is investing into pro wrestling more than any other company in history (sans WCW), to me that is commendable. Just trying is respectable in my eyes.
> 
> The fuck do I know though...


No, no. You’re misunderstanding me. I love that he tried to put his money where his mouth is and save pro-wrestling.

But it takes more than just money as we have seen in the last 15-16 months of Dynamite. This company will only begin to grow when Tony Khan decides to be their leader and not just their friend. This is a business. Being friends with the boys is cool and all, but they NEED one voice to right the ship.

Otherwise we have what we see weekly, everyone trying to just get their own shit in and wrecking the flow of otherwise very good television. Omega is literally doing shit that has not been seen on American television, and yet we still have to placate everyone by not focusing on his story, too busy making sure we see TH2 and the Acclaimed for 15 minutes.

Ditto when Moxley was the champion and an almost guaranteed spike of 200k viewers any time he was on TV in anything meaningful. Instead we have to watch Moxley in a broom closet for 2 minutes, because Cody rHHHodes needs to parade around pretending to be World Champion while “honoring” his stipulation that he can’t be world champion.

Not everyone has to get equal amounts of TV time. Disco Inferno didn’t belong in a main event. Jericho and those guys COULD main event, but it didn’t need to happen weekly. Showcase them but FEATURE your stars as the stars they are.

TK has watched far too much wrestling in his lifetime for me to believe he is just trying to figure out what works. So, he’s a money mark trying to make people happy.

I hope he can grow the balls to be a Money Mark who LEADS.


----------



## 10gizzle

Ozell Gray said:


> Well Raw and SmackDown have larger audiences than all other wrestling shows so they alot more people to lose. Just like Dynamite has alot more to lose than NXT.
> 
> *To add on to this Dynamite should be blowing NXT out of the water considering the pay scale for guys in AEW compared to NXT.*


Bad argument. Incomporable.

New companies always have to spend more. Let alone one creating a live TV show every week. 

AEW has it's entire infrastructure and company revolving around Dynamite. They've been alive for 15 months.

NXT itself has been around for what, 10 years?

WWE has a half century, well oiled machine of a beast of an entertainment company that quite literally allows them to have a 3rd brand like NXT not cost a lot yet still be quality.


----------



## bdon

Ozell Gray said:


> Well Raw and SmackDown have larger audiences than all other wrestling shows so they alot more people to lose. Just like Dynamite has alot more to lose than NXT.


Exactly. So, why are you trying to use Wednesday’s rating as a way to tear down AEW. How dare them for having more casual fans than NXT!



> To add on to this Dynamite should be blowing NXT out of the water considering the pay scale for guys in AEW compared to NXT.


I don’t disagree. Unlike most people on this fucking forum, I can be intellectually honest without feeling like I am compromising my argument against those on the other side of the aisle.


----------



## Ozell Gray

10gizzle said:


> Bad argument. Incomporable.
> 
> New companies always have to spend more. Let alone one creating a live TV show every week.
> 
> AEW has it's entire infrastructure and company revolving around Dynamite. They've been alive for 15 months.
> 
> NXT itself has been around for what, 10 years?
> 
> WWE has a half century, well oiled machine of a beast of an entertainment company that quite literally allows them to have a 3rd brand like NXT not cost a lot yet still be quality.


NXT was a money pit for a long time on the WWE Network and never turned a profit which is why WWE wanted to put on tv to replace SmackDown ON USA Network since NBCUinversal lost SmackDown to Fox. Now they're seeing a return on their investment with NXT.


----------



## 10gizzle

bdon said:


> No, no. You’re misunderstanding me. I love that he tried to put his money where his mouth is and save pro-wrestling.
> 
> But it takes more than just money as we have seen in the last 15-16 months of Dynamite. This company will only begin to grow when Tony Khan decides to be their leader and not just their friend. This is a business. Being friends with the boys is cool and all, but they NEED one voice to right the ship.
> 
> Otherwise we have what we see weekly, everyone trying to just get their own shit in and wrecking the flow of otherwise very good television. Omega is literally doing shit that has not been seen on American television, and yet we still have to placate everyone by not focusing on his story, too busy making sure we see TH2 and the Acclaimed for 15 minutes.
> 
> Ditto when Moxley was the champion and an almost guaranteed spike of 200k viewers any time he was on TV in anything meaningful. Instead we have to watch Moxley in a broom closet for 2 minutes, because Cody rHHHodes needs to parade around pretending to be World Champion while “honoring” his stipulation that he can’t be world champion.
> 
> Not everyone has to get equal amounts of TV time. Disco Inferno didn’t belong in a main event. Jericho and those guys COULD main event, but it didn’t need to happen weekly. Showcase them but FEATURE your stars as the stars they are.
> 
> TK has watched far too much wrestling in his lifetime for me to believe he is just trying to figure out what works. So, he’s a money mark trying to make people happy.
> 
> I hope he can grow the balls to be a Money Mark who LEADS.


I agree with everything here. Thanks again man.

I think eventually he'll take that stand. He's already taken it in the NFL. He gives zero fucks. 

I think his passion for wrestling will always keep him soft hearted though to the business and frankly, I'm OK with it. Wrestling has bee such a toxic, evil, scummy business. If that's the cost for there to actually be a company that actually treats it's staff well, fair trade in my books.


----------



## Ozell Gray

bdon said:


> Exactly. So, why are you trying to use Wednesday’s rating as a way to tear down AEW. How dare them for having more casual fans than NXT!


Because Dynamite dropped while NXT increased despite facing the same news coverage. Makes no sense for one to be affected but not the other. 



> I don’t disagree. Unlike most people on this fucking forum, I can be intellectually honest without feeling like I am compromising my argument against those on the other side of the aisle.


Thats what I like about you. You're a fan but you're honest and neutral at times haha.


----------



## 10gizzle

Ozell Gray said:


> NXT was a money pit for a long time on the WWE Network and never turned a profit which is why WWE wanted to put on tv to replace SmackDown ON USA Network since NBCUinversal lost SmackDown to Fox. Now they're seeing a return on their investment with NXT.


Imagine NXT had to pay for the salaries of HHH, Shawn Michaels, etc...

That's why it can't be compared. 

WWE has everything at their disposal.

AEW is literally making and doing everything from scratch for the first time.


----------



## Ozell Gray

10gizzle said:


> Imagine NXT had to pay for the salaries of HHH, Shawn Michaels, etc...
> 
> That's why it can't be compared.
> 
> WWE has everything at their disposal.
> 
> AEW is literally making and doing everything from scratch for the first time.


Triple H and Shawn Michaels' checks come from the main roster not NXT. NXT pays guys like Adam Cole, Rhea Ripley, and Johnny Gargano ect. Those guys get their checks from NXT. 

Plus HBK has a legends deal which comes from Raw and SmackDown and it's something NXT can't afford to pay cause it doesn't have that type of money.


----------



## bdon

Ozell Gray said:


> Because Dynamite dropped while NXT increased despite facing the same news coverage. Makes no sense for one to be affected but not the other.


It makes perfect sense, because NXT had their worst viewership ever the previous week, no? Or had they had worse? AEW had a higher number than usual the previous week. Jon Huber’s death affected both numbers. NXT simply raised in viewership to their baseline. AEW FELL to their baseline. Just like SmackDown was back at ITS baseline.

That SmackDown and AEW HAD to fall to reach their baseline fan who decides weekly “I WILL be watching this show, and the need better not interrupt it to tell me Jesus Christ himself has ripped open the goddamn Eastern Sky” should not be seen as some sort of positive for NXT or negative for SD and AEW.


----------



## 10gizzle

Ozell Gray said:


> Triple H and Shawn Michaels' checks come from the main roster not NXT. NXT pays guys like Adam Cole, Rhea Ripley, and Johnny Gargano ect. Those guys get their checks from NXT.
> 
> Plus HBK has a legends deal which comes from Raw and SmackDown and it's something NXT can't afford to pay cause it doesn't have that type of money.


Oh thats my point. 

Can't compare costs because WWE being a mega giant is what allows NXT to be NXT. NXT would be a lot more costly if they didn't have one of the best production companies on the planet putting the show on.


----------



## Ozell Gray

bdon said:


> It makes perfect sense, because NXT had their worst viewership ever the previous week, no? Or had they had worse? AEW had a higher number than usual the previous week. Jon Huber’s death affected both numbers. NXT simply raised in viewership to their baseline. AEW FELL to their baseline. Just like SmackDown was back at ITS baseline.
> 
> That SmackDown and AEW HAD to fall to reach their baseline fan who decides weekly “I WILL be watching this show, and the need better not interrupt it to tell me Jesus Christ himself has ripped open the goddamn Eastern Sky” should not be seen as some sort of positive for NXT or negative for SD and AEW.


Ok that makes sense and I agree. 



10gizzle said:


> Oh thats my point.
> 
> Can't compare costs because WWE being a mega giant is what allows NXT to be NXT. NXT would be a lot more costly if they didn't have one of the best production companies on the planet putting the show on.


Thats why I didn't compare it to WWE as a whole. I compared it to NXT which is a much a fairer comparison for AEW since they're both on the same level with AEW having the obvious advantage.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Ozell Gray said:


> Dynamite will get what it Normal gets which is its 800k viewers. The news doesn’t affect its viewership and never has going by all the trends that happened. No one’s going to stop watching Dynamite to watch the news and they didn’t even do that for Raw or SmackDown (especially with SmackDown being on the worst night of television).


You said before hand Dynamite would get 800k...they got 660k



Ozell Gray said:


> NXT went up while Dynamite dropped but Dynamite will get back the 800k next week.


Then after you say Dynamite will be back to 800K next week. Why would that be the case?

And what caused your initial prediction to be wrong?

(Hint - same answer for both)


----------



## 10gizzle

Ozell Gray said:


> Ok that makes sense and I agree.
> 
> Thats why I didn't compare it to WWE as a whole. I compared it to NXT which is a much a fairer comparison for AEW since they're both on the same level with AEW having the obvious advantage.


But they don't though.

AEW is a company. NXT is just a show on WWE. Financially they can't be compared.

The infrastructure, organizational elements, production, scouting, contracts for talent, etc...is all WWE. 

WWE can have multiple million dollar talents show up at NXT at anytime and it wouldn't add a cent to NXTs "cost".

A more apt comparison would be DARK vs NXT. Obviously, they're not comparable - but DARK films after Dynamite which they piggy back off of just like NXT piggy backs off of everything WWE. 

People think AEW just spending much more means they should beat NXT every week. I personally don't see it that way at all. People are looking at this on a week by week basis. That's not how you run a business. They're looking at the viability of the business over 3-5 years.


----------



## Pippen94

Ozell Gray said:


> There's no "bullying" here. You decided to pick a fight with me and now that I've replied to you you can't handle it. Don't reply to me if you don't want me to reply back.


There's a group of 10 of you who've been bullying me in the same manner. I was told it wouldn't happen outside of rants forum - seems moderators aren't true to their word

As far as discussing ratings & wrestling I'm a few levels above you. You can't back what you say with evidence & always end up making a fool of yourself


----------



## Pippen94

Ozell Gray said:


> Well Raw and SmackDown have larger audiences than all other wrestling shows so they alot more people to lose. Just like Dynamite has alot more to lose than NXT.
> 
> To add on to this Dynamite should be blowing NXT out of the water considering the pay scale for guys in AEW compared to NXT.


Wwe is the most profitable promotion in the history of this world but can't stop it's ratings from slipping. Argument that money equals ratings is dumb


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> You’re full of shit. NXT had its baseline viewers. AEW had its baseline viewers. The casuals who typically choose AEW nearly 85% of the time didn’t show up on Wednesday. TWO fucking days after the attacks on Congress, and SmackDown saw its baseline viewers.
> 
> Again I’ll ask: where are those 4 million viewers you were bragging about a couple weeks ago?


No show from any company has kept many viewers from big shows. To expect them to is unrealistic


----------



## Pippen94

validreasoning said:


> Off top my my head I don't know. When they have promoted decently big name they seem to win though. Even Sasha at that time was on TV 3 times per week so really shouldn't have been that much of an attraction.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't remember that appearance but what does Shawn offer these days. Like saying Jake Roberts has potential to draw viewers in 2021.
> 
> 
> 
> He was on screen for like few seconds, not prompted or anything. I highly doubt people going to flock to see a suited HHH hold back a dude for few seconds.


I'll answer the question you're afraid to; aew has been the top ranked wrestling show on Wednesday for over a year. Whatever stars wwe has thrown against them it hasn't made a difference.

When Sasha appeared on June 6 the show did a 0.19 which was down on week after & prior. 






Wednesday Night Wars - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





Shawn Michaels appearance was hyped & while it was a non wrestling one Eric Bischoff & Sting are often sited as draws for aew & they don't see action either. 
IMO Michaels is a bigger star than both yet didn't move needle.

Hhh made a number of appearances on wwe Wednesday last year but you only mentioned the non promoted one because you're being deliberately misleading.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pippen94 said:


> There's a group of 10 of you who've been bullying me in the same manner. I was told it wouldn't happen outside of rants forum - seems moderators aren't true to their word
> 
> As far as discussing ratings & wrestling I'm a few levels above you. You can't back what you say with evidence & always end up making a fool of yourself



🤣 Even though you’ve literally never backed up anything you’ve said here and I guarantee I’m way above you and smarter than you’ll ever be.



Pippen94 said:


> Wwe is the most profitable promotion in the history of this world but can't stop it's ratings from slipping. Argument that money equals ratings is dumb


And AEW are bleeding money and has dropped in ratings from 2019 to now so your argument is stupid and dismissed.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pentagon Senior said:


> You said before hand Dynamite would get 800k...they got 660k
> 
> 
> 
> Then after you say Dynamite will be back to 800K next week. Why would that be the case?
> 
> And what caused your initial prediction to be wrong?
> 
> (Hint - same answer for both)



It’s going to get back to 800k viewers and that was hint hint BEFORE the capitol siege but even still it’ll go back to 800k either this week or the week after.



10gizzle said:


> But they don't though.
> 
> AEW is a company. NXT is just a show on WWE. Financially they can't be compared.
> 
> The infrastructure, organizational elements, production, scouting, contracts for talent, etc...is all WWE.
> 
> WWE can have multiple million dollar talents show up at NXT at anytime and it wouldn't add a cent to NXTs "cost".
> 
> A more apt comparison would be DARK vs NXT. Obviously, they're not comparable - but DARK films after Dynamite which they piggy back off of just like NXT piggy backs off of everything WWE.
> 
> People think AEW just spending much more means they should beat NXT every week. I personally don't see it that way at all. People are looking at this on a week by week basis. That's not how you run a business. They're looking at the viability of the business over 3-5 years.
> [/QUOTE
> 
> Don’t think you’re understanding my point. Dynamite is a show under the AEW umbrella just like NXT is a show under the WWE umbrella and they’re both on the same night so it’s absolutely a fair comparison. Plus NXT has it’s own costs which are different from Raw and SmackDown which is why WWE spends very little on it.
> 
> Plus financially Dynamite crushes NXT in that catergory. No one was comparing AEW to WWE but Dynamite to NXT. No one in NXT are making $8 million like Jericho is on Dynamite or $6 million like Moxley is. I’m looking at it on average not week to week.
> 
> Dark is a YouTube show not a tv show so it doesn’t make sense to compare Dark to anything that’s on tv. If I compared NXT to Dark that’d be an asinine comparison because of course NXT beats Dark in every category because one’s a television show while the other’s an internet show.


----------



## zaz102

Not getting political, but since it can impact ratings I thought it was relevant. There's a lot of potential US historical events brewing (other planned attacks, 25th ammendment, impeachment, arrests, etc.) 

Hold onto your seats.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

zaz102 said:


> Not getting political, but since it can impact ratings I thought it was relevant. There's a lot of potential US historical events brewing (other planned attacks, 25th ammendment, impeachment, arrests, etc.)
> 
> Hold onto your seats.


I'm waiting for the biggest one of them all: The declaration of Civil War.


----------



## validreasoning

Pippen94 said:


> I'll answer the question you're afraid to; aew has been the top ranked wrestling show on Wednesday for over a year. Whatever stars wwe has thrown against them it hasn't made a difference.
> 
> When Sasha appeared on June 6 the show did a 0.19 which was down on week after & prior.


Big names aren't on tv weekly in nxt..that's the difference.

If Omega, bucks, Cody, Neville, rusev, Ambrose, Jericho, Sting were on NXT tv every week you would see a big difference.

JR is a much bigger name than anyone in NXT e.g



> Shawn Michaels appearance was hyped & while it was a non wrestling one Eric Bischoff & Sting are often sited as draws for aew & they don't see action either.
> IMO Michaels is a bigger star than both yet didn't move needle.
> 
> Hhh made a number of appearances on wwe Wednesday last year but you only mentioned the non promoted one because you're being deliberately misleading.


I don't remember Shawn appearance so they must have done terrible job promoting it. 

Bischoff and sting appearing first time on TNT in 20 years were big freaking deals. HHH on NXT not a big deal..


Pentagon Senior said:


> None of that is an issue imo. They've kept plenty of big matches and feuds back, in fact people have been moaning about that too when it suits their argument. 9/10 times their ppv's have been well received. Also, Dynamite is their main revenue stream and they only do 4 ppv's per year - it's not wise to save all your good matches for four annual dates.


Eddie Kingston was in mainevent of last ppv. Everyone and their grandparents knew he had zero chance of winning.

Then few week later Omega and Moxley was on free tv and title change.

That's the kind of stuff that turned off TNA ppv buyers. Why spend $50 or whatever when nothing happens on ppv and title changes take place on free tv


----------



## bdon

validreasoning said:


> have done terrible job promoting it.
> 
> Bischoff and sting appearing first time on TNT in 20 years were big freaking deals. *HHH on NXT not a big deal*


Be...cause...he’s on there...often enough...that it isn’t a big deal..?


validreasoning said:


> Eddie Kingston was in mainevent of last ppv. Everyone and their grandparents knew he had zero chance of winning.
> 
> Then few week later Omega and Moxley was on free tv and title change.
> 
> That's the kind of stuff that turned off TNA ppv buyers. Why spend $50 or whatever when nothing happens on ppv and title changes take place on free tv


Oh ok.

So, you’re just a TNA fan that is offended people aren’t shitting on AEW religiously. Yet.


----------



## Pippen94

validreasoning said:


> Big names aren't on tv weekly in nxt..that's the difference.
> 
> If Omega, bucks, Cody, Neville, rusev, Ambrose, Jericho, Sting were on NXT tv every week you would see a big difference.
> 
> JR is a much bigger name than anyone in NXT e.g
> 
> 
> 
> I don't remember Shawn appearance so they must have done terrible job promoting it.
> 
> Bischoff and sting appearing first time on TNT in 20 years were big freaking deals. HHH on NXT not a big deal..
> 
> Eddie Kingston was in mainevent of last ppv. Everyone and their grandparents knew he had zero chance of winning.
> 
> Then few week later Omega and Moxley was on free tv and title change.
> 
> That's the kind of stuff that turned off TNA ppv buyers. Why spend $50 or whatever when nothing happens on ppv and title changes take place on free tv


This is when it pays to know something about ratings in a ratings thread. Biggest ratings pop for returning or debuting stars is first week. After that is law of diminishing returns. We've seen this recently with Sting, Kenny in impact & Raw's night of legend.

If big names equaled ratings TNA would've been a top rated show which it never was. You argument is just an opinion not supported by any evidence


----------



## Pippen94

Ozell Gray said:


> 🤣 Even though you’ve literally never backed up anything you’ve said here and I guarantee I’m way above you and smarter than you’ll ever be.
> 
> 
> 
> And AEW are bleeding money and has dropped in ratings from 2019 to now so your argument is stupid and dismissed.


I don't think there's any proof of either of those statements


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> Great, now when did wwe Wednesday outrank aew in 2020??
> 
> Shawn heavily promoted for this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WWE NXT: Finn Balor, Kyle O'Reilly meet face-to-face
> 
> 
> NXT Champion Finn Balor sat down with his challenger Kyle O'Reilly for a face-to-face interview moderated by living legend Shawn Michaels on WWE NXT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hhh inserted himself in Adam Cole / Pat McAfee feud & other stuff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pat McAfee just punted Adam Cole and got tossed by Triple H
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WWE NXT Results - 3/25/20 (Triple H makes an announcement, two qualifying matches) - WWE News, WWE Results, AEW News, AEW Results
> 
> 
> WWE NXT Results March 25, 2020 Winter Park, Florida (Full Sail University) Commentary: Tom Phillips and Byron Saxton…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Triple H, Shawn Michaels and Road Dogg announce 'WWE NXT Takeover: In Your House' PPV
> 
> 
> In the recent episode of WWE NXT, Triple H & Shawn Michaels announced that the upcoming 'WWE NXT Takeover: In Your House' PPV will air on Sunday, June 7, 2020.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com





Pippen94 said:


> This is when it pays to know something about ratings in a ratings thread. Biggest ratings pop for returning or debuting stars is first week. After that is law of diminishing returns. We've seen this recently with Sting, Kenny in impact & Raw's night of legend.
> 
> If big names equaled ratings TNA would've been a top rated show which it never was. You argument is just an opinion not supported by any evidence


Isn't your first post arguing that NXT only won because of big names but now a day later you're back to names don't matter argument.

Sooo which one is it? Do they or don't they matter?

Names do matter by the way that's why movie companies throw ridiculous money at actors with massive star power.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pippen94 said:


> I don't think there's any proof of either of those statements


Actually there is and the posts proves that and there’s a difference between “I don’t think” and knowing. You can’t back up anything you say and you’ve yet to do it.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> Isn't your first post arguing that NXT only won because of big names but now a day later you're back to names don't matter argument.
> 
> Sooo which one is it? Do they or don't they matter?
> 
> Names do matter by the way that's why movie companies throw ridiculous money at actors with massive star power.


Would never had said wwe Wednesday won ratings because they haven't since doing it once towards end of 2019.

Big names can pop ratings but if they stick around that impact quickly disappears. Ppl simply watch the better show.

Lots of movies with big stars have flopped.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> Would never had said wwe Wednesday won ratings because they haven't since doing it once towards end of 2019.
> 
> Big names can pop ratings but if they stick around that impact quickly disappears. Ppl simply watch the better show.
> 
> Lots of movies with big stars have flopped.


Errr NXT won kind of recently, Pips...


----------



## Machismo88

Pip'n ain't pip'n ain't easy man. I don't know. 🤪🤷‍♂️


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> Errr NXT won kind of recently, Pips...


Maybe you should check because relying on what's in your head doesn't appear to be working??


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> Maybe you should check because relying on what's in your head doesn't appear to be working??


NXT last won on October 28th, 2020


----------



## Machismo88

Pips, NXT got up for the Halloween Havoc special & all aew fans bought up was winning the demo, so maybe that's why you can't remember?


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> NXT last won on October 28th, 2020


No - aew won night by ranking higher





__





UPDATED: SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Top 150 Wednesday Cable Originals & Network Finals: 10.28.2020 | Showbuzz Daily







www.showbuzzdaily.com





Aew hasn't been topped since towards end of 2019


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pippen94 said:


> No - aew won night by ranking higher
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATED: SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Top 150 Wednesday Cable Originals & Network Finals: 10.28.2020 | Showbuzz Daily
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.showbuzzdaily.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aew hasn't been topped since towards end of 2019


Pippen, you know nobody here really cares about demo or ranking. It's all about overall and NXT won in October.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> Gee, it’s almost like Wednesday was the day when the Capitol building debacle occurred (which apparently a huge incident like this hasn’t happened to that building in OVER TWO CENTURIES), and Friday was the day where nothing really traumatic happened.
> 
> Jesus Christ, some of these takes on here (where you’re low-key rooting for the company to ‘fail’) are beyond awful.


How do you explain NXT going up?



bdon said:


> What happened to 4 million viewers?


They tuned out because they didn’t like the show.



Firefromthegods said:


> @The Wood and @Ozell Gray don't bring up that disgusting capital attack in here. Especially if you are using it to attack aew. That's just gross


Hang on — I never used that bullshit to attack AEW. But when we’re having a discussion about the ratings and how the news affects them, it’s an important aspect. 



Pentagon Senior said:


> Personally I think the whole hotshotting argument is a bit silly - if you've got tools to hand why wouldn't you use those tools to get a boost occasionally. I don't see an issue with AEW nor NXT doing it too excessively to be honest. But if we're going to be fair and reasonable we have to be consistent in our analysis. You've used this as a stick to bash AEW with (predictably) Chip, now here you are defending NXT for it. You can't have it both ways lol.
> 
> Really, it's a non issue and doesn't affect the fact that AEW have consistently dominated NXT in the ratings - and rightfully so.


Hot-shotting too much is just like crying wolf. It loses its power.



TKO Wrestling said:


> Lol. They lost every fan they “gained” from the 20 million lead in two weeks ago.


So did AEW from their massive lead-in.


----------



## CM Buck

The Wood said:


> How do you explain NXT going up?
> 
> 
> 
> They tuned out because they didn’t like the show.
> 
> 
> 
> Hang on — I never used that bullshit to attack AEW. But when we’re having a discussion about the ratings and how the news affects them, it’s an important aspect.
> 
> 
> 
> Hot-shotting too much is just like crying wolf. It loses its power.
> 
> 
> 
> So did AEW from their massive lead-in.


How so? The people who care about the news tend to be those who can't figure out how to use smart phones? Like your out of touch old folk watch the news. Anything below 49 knows to just check the net for news these days


----------



## 10gizzle

Chip Chipperson said:


> Pippen, you know nobody here really cares about demo or ranking. It's all about overall and NXT won in October.


All this shit is, is fuel for discussion and something to argue about and track. Its buzz. It's a score. It's sports.

Ratings are the lowest common denominator that people can choose sides over. That's why ratings have become one of the most popular topics in wrestling media and news. You really think TK and major media executives are discussing the same shit that's brought up in this thread?

I mean no disrespect to anyone who is really into it and likes to track it etc...I'm the same with basketball, fantasy football, etc...But these factors really are just a piece of the puzzle of AEW the business. This isn't a wrestling promotion. It's a media company. I think looking at it through that lens offers a little bit of a different perspective on it.

Business wise - the demo is the only thing that matters financially - at least short/intermediate term.

Nobody that matters is looking at the total viewership right now week by week and making determinations about the business years in the future. AEW is already far ahead of any wrestling promotion in terms of what's been accomplished in its infancy. Its incomparable. Pick any promotion in history, have any of them, product aside, had as much accomplished in year 1? I'm not saying this condescendingly, I'm genuinely curious but frankly I doubt it.

It's the richest wrestling company owner ever, working under the umbrella of the biggest media company (at least, as of right now) to ever feature a wrestling program. They're in a decent spot even if they want to be a backyard, outlaw mud show for 5-10 years.

It has tons and tons that it still needs to improve but the promotion is barely a year and half old and is being watched around the world.

I wouldn't be surprised if AEW is the most pirated wrestling program in the world right now. For an small indy company, that piracy can be absolutely crippling. For a Time-Warner...



> But this hasn’t necessarily been a problem for HBO. In 2013, the boss of Time-Warner (which owns HBO), Jeff Bewkes, declared that piracy was: “Better than an Emmy” because more people watching the show inevitably led to more people deciding to pay for subscriptions. He said:
> 
> 
> 
> We’ve been dealing with this for 20, 30 years – people sharing subs, running wires down the backs of apartment buildings. Our experience is that it leads to more paying subs. I think you’re right that Game of Thrones is the most pirated show in the world and that’s better than an Emmy.
Click to expand...

That's the BIG DIFFERNCE between AEW and whatever other wrestling promotion you want to compare it to. AEW is a business. Not a wrestling promotion. It's an entertainment company.

*AEW, in my opinion, is far more concerned with building out the brand through as many media formats and verticals as they can as well. That and growing the brand internationally. *

Edit -


> On April 25, 2019, Khan revealed the five year plan for AEW where he stated:
> 
> 
> 
> The 5-year plan for AEW is *firstly, to have built up a brand*, secondly to have built up a roster and thirdly, to have established AEW as a top brand in wrestling for an audience who desire fast-paced exciting action and want a product that is more of a sporting based product.[20]
Click to expand...


----------



## The Wood

Firefromthegods said:


> How so? The people who care about the news tend to be those who can't figure out how to use smart phones? Like your out of touch old folk watch the news. Anything below 49 knows to just check the net for news these days


My point exactly. That’s why using the news to justify a drop in ratings is kind of shallow. You’re really only losing maybe 200k people between Dynamite and NXT.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Ozell Gray said:


> It’s going to get back to 800k viewers and that was hint hint BEFORE the capitol siege but even still it’ll go back to 800k either this week or the week after.


That comment of yours was after the show. You've implied it yourself, AEW would've been around 800k if not for the riots and should be back there next week.

So the news is precisely what caused the drop.



validreasoning said:


> Eddie Kingston was in mainevent of last ppv. Everyone and their grandparents knew he had zero chance of winning.
> 
> Then few week later Omega and Moxley was on free tv and title change.
> 
> That's the kind of stuff that turned off TNA ppv buyers. Why spend $50 or whatever when nothing happens on ppv and title changes take place on free tv


It's not hard to pick out one off examples like that and compare them but it's not an overall trend. The AEW ppv buy rate has remained comparatively high and stable, so people do buy it. If that changes you may have a point. Dynamite is also important and with only 4 ppv's per year it makes sense to put some big matches on TV.



The Wood said:


> The news *did not cause the drop.* NXT went up. 1.3 million people watched wrestling on Wednesdays. That’s not too far off from the number other weeks.


It's 200k less than usual which also happens to be the casual viewers who didn't watch AEW because of the news 😂 you're the one who bangs on about it's always 1.5m so you're disproving your own point


----------



## The Wood

The news *did not cause the drop.* NXT went up. 1.3 million people watched wrestling on Wednesdays. That’s not too far off from the number other weeks.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pentagon Senior said:


> That comment of yours was after the show. You've implied it yourself, AEW would've been around 800k if not for the riots and should be back there next week.
> 
> So the news is precisely what caused the drop.


The news couldn't have caused a drop for Dynamite, and not for NXT since they're both on at the same time and NXT has an older audience which are the main ones looking at the news yet NXT went up so I'm not buying that one.


----------



## 10gizzle

Does anybody here actually know what 200K of viewers is worth?

500K? 1M? 4M?


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Ozell Gray said:


> The news couldn't have caused a drop for Dynamite, and not for NXT since they're both on at the same time and NXT has an older audience which are the main ones looking at the news yet NXT went up so I'm not buying that one.


Not only could it have but it clearly did lol. 

So explain to me one last time, if it wasn't the news;

1. Why was your prediction wrong by 140k?
2. And why did you predict after the show that they'd be back to 800k the following week?

I'm all ears


----------



## The Wood

Those 200k could have been from NXT. It’s be 800k to 600k. Or it could have been 750k to 750k. NXT went up despite the news. No one has a good answer for that yet.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pentagon Senior said:


> Not only could it have but it clearly did lol.
> 
> So explain to me one last time, if it wasn't the news;
> 
> 1. Why was your prediction wrong by 140k?
> 2. And why did you predict after the show that they'd be back to 800k the following week?
> 
> I'm all ears


It didn't and it shows with NXT not being affected.

1. My prediction was wrong because viewers chose not to tune in. Nothing to do with anything else.

2. Because thats what happens every week. Dynamite loses viewers one week and gets back to 800k the next week. It's really simple.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Ozell Gray said:


> It didn't and it shows with NXT not being affected.
> 
> 1. My prediction was wrong because viewers chose not to tune in. Nothing to do with anything else.
> 
> 2. Because thats what happens every week. Dynamite loses viewers one week and gets back to 800k the next week. It's really simple.


They certainly chose not to tune in. I wonder what they were up to lol 

When was the last time AEW went sub 700k? If this is a common occurrance


----------



## Chip Chipperson

10gizzle said:


> Does anybody here actually know what 200K of viewers is worth?
> 
> 500K? 1M? 4M?


About 5 years ago TNA was at double that on a smaller network and I believe the network simply covered production costs and split the ads with them.

For AEW doing a million plus on TV every week has value though. They can walk around and saying they consistently get a million viewers and come negotiation time that could mean more dollars. How much we don't know.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Pentagon Senior said:


> They certainly chose not to tune in. I wonder what they were up to lol
> 
> When was the last time AEW went sub 700k? If this is a common occurrance


Yeah and chose not to tune in because there was nothing on the show that gave them reason to tune in lol. Thats Pretty simple.


----------



## The Wood

Who is stopping their lives to watch the news in 2021? It’s. 24/7 cycle. You don’t have to give up what you were already watching to watch it. Just flick it over when you’re done.

The news is big, but it doesn’t mean it’s going to hurt other things. I think you’ll find more people watched television that Wednesday than did the previous week.


----------



## Pippen94

Chip Chipperson said:


> About 5 years ago TNA was at double that on a smaller network and I believe the network simply covered production costs and split the ads with them.
> 
> For AEW doing a million plus on TV every week has value though. They can walk around and saying they consistently get a million viewers and come negotiation time that could mean more dollars. How much we don't know.


What TNA did pre 2015 is completely irrelevant; Viewership across all TV has declined in past decade & conversely broadcasting rights increased.





__





Redirect Notice






www.google.com


----------



## Pippen94

Saying news had no impact on ratings this week may be most ill informed comment ever on here. Top 30 shows for night were news;


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1347586464977182721


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Saying news had no impact on ratings this week may be most ill informed comment ever on here. Top 30 shows for night were news;
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1347586464977182721


More people watching the news doesn’t mean less people were going to be watching wrestling. NXT‘s viewership went up.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Pippen94 said:


> Saying news had no impact on ratings this week may be most ill informed comment ever on here. Top 30 shows for night were news;
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1347586464977182721


@Firefromthegods in light of this evidence that AEW was clearly affected by the news - unprecedented low figures overall and in demo whilst the news filled all the top spots - any chance you could have a word with those spamming the thread, stating as fact that the news had no effect? Which is baiting too considering the clear evidence and context of this thread.


----------



## CM Buck

Pentagon Senior said:


> @Firefromthegods in light of this evidence that AEW was clearly affected by the news - unprecedented low figures overall and in demo whilst the news filled all the top spots - any chance you could have a word with those spamming the thread, stating as fact that the news had no effect? Which is baiting too considering the clear evidence and context of this thread.


Can do. @Ozell Gray and @The Wood @Chip Chipperson whomever else is using the news you got your evidence that the news caused a drop. I'm giving the win to aew


----------



## The Wood

Firefromthegods said:


> Can do. @Ozell Gray and @The Wood @Chip Chipperson whomever else is using the news you got your evidence that the news caused a drop. I'm giving the win to aew


That’s not evidence of shit, dude. Come on, haha. Again, has anyone made any effort AT ALL to explain how NXT saw an increase in its slot?


----------



## Pippen94

Pentagon Senior said:


> @Firefromthegods in light of this evidence that AEW was clearly affected by the news - unprecedented low figures overall and in demo whilst the news filled all the top spots - any chance you could have a word with those spamming the thread, stating as fact that the news had no effect? Which is baiting too considering the clear evidence and context of this thread.


All the non news shows which are usually among the top rated like _NBA, real housewives_ & _aew dynamite_ saw significant drops this week. 
Wwe Wednesday up from record low last week but still a very poor number.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Firefromthegods said:


> Can do. @Ozell Gray and @The Wood @Chip Chipperson whomever else is using the news you got your evidence that the news caused a drop. I'm giving the win to aew


Appreciated and sorry to have to ask 👍


----------



## The Wood

Real Housewives went down 200k. Hmm, it’s almost like only the most casual viewers stopped watching. It basically remained the same in that beloved key demo, by the way.

These narratives are such bullshit.

If NXT was using the news to defend bad ratings and AEW went up, don’t think these arguments wouldn’t be completely flipped.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Firefromthegods said:


> Can do. @Ozell Gray and @The Wood @Chip Chipperson whomever else is using the news you got your evidence that the news caused a drop. I'm giving the win to aew


No one is using the news as an agenda but just pointing out that NXT wasn't affected but increased it's audience so therefore can't be used for why Dynamite dropped.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Firefromthegods said:


> Can do. @Ozell Gray and @The Wood @Chip Chipperson whomever else is using the news you got your evidence that the news caused a drop. I'm giving the win to aew


Yeah no worries can you now warn Pippen for his "I'm smarter than you" attitude and his "Star power doesn't mean anything" which contradicts what he said yesterday?

Appreciated and sorry to have to ask.


----------



## rbl85

Ozell Gray said:


> No one is using the news as an agenda but just pointing out that NXT wasn't affected but increased it's audience so therefore can't be used for why Dynamite dropped.


NXT had 10 more minutes than AEW, what was NXT numbers without those 10 more minutes ?


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> NXT had 10 more minutes than AEW, what was NXT numbers without those 10 more minutes ?


What does that matter? People weren’t switching over for the news.


----------



## Ozell Gray

rbl85 said:


> NXT had 10 more minutes than AEW, what was NXT numbers without those 10 more minutes ?


That doesn't matter since the news was on.


----------



## CM Buck

@Pippen94 @The Wood @Chip Chipperson @Ozell Gray whomever else is dick measuring in this thread.

Enough. Stop always needing to be right. If someone presents facts that refute your argument like Pippen94 did when he provided what i assume is a credible source then just concede. If there's evidence aew won or lost just accept it. If aew does well just accept it. I'm fine with debate. And I recognise there's an aew poster war. But you guys need to learn to let shit go. Stop dick measuring. That's all this fucking thread is. 

This thread is for discussing numbers. Its not another battle ground for the chip coalition and the elite forum edition. If you guys need a place where you can measure units i will simply make a rants thread for all participants who wish to fight.

So, stop fighting. Talk about the numbers.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Firefromthegods said:


> @Pippen94 @The Wood @Chip Chipperson @Ozell Gray whomever else is dick measuring in this thread.
> 
> Enough. Stop always needing to be right. If someone presents facts that refute your argument like Pippen94 did when he provided what i assume is a credible source then just concede. If there's evidence aew won or lost just accept it. If aew does well just accept it. I'm fine with debate. And I recognise there's an aew poster war. But you guys need to learn to let shit go. Stop dick measuring. That's all this fucking thread is.
> 
> This thread is for discussing numbers. Its not another battle ground for the chip coalition and the elite forum edition. If you guys need a place where you can measure units i will simply make a rants thread for all participants who wish to fight.
> 
> So, stop fighting. Talk about the numbers.


He's a guy that is friends with people on the AEW roster, how credible he is I guess is dependent on how you feel but if it was someone known to be mates with WWE guys analysing their ratings I know that'd be thrown right out.

As for forum drama, I don't know why you keep tagging me I don't give a fuck about if people watched the news or not I'm just commenting on Pippen's bait of NXT never beating AEW in the ratings which is a lie. If anyone is lumping people together it's you in this circumstance.


----------



## CM Buck

Chip Chipperson said:


> He's a guy that is friends with people on the AEW roster, how credible he is I guess is dependent on how you feel but if it was someone known to be mates with WWE guys analysing their ratings I know that'd be thrown right out.
> 
> As for forum drama, I don't know why you keep tagging me I don't give a fuck about if people watched the news or not I'm just commenting on Pippen's bait of NXT never beating AEW in the ratings which is a lie. If anyone is lumping people together it's you in this circumstance.


I don't care about ratings at all. The source could be a purple monkey that lives in my butt. If the number is bigger than that's the side who won as far as I'm concerned.

Some idiot hired someone to doxx you. Some moron told you that Pippen was a child to stirr shit up. This aew disagreement is the overarching commonality. The little spot fires are becoming something im very concerned about because of those two incidents


----------



## VIP86

@Firefromthegods i disagree with @Ozell Gray, @Chip Chipperson, @The Wood about the news not affecting the ratings this week

but i don't blame them for being extra stubborn and defensive about their points
you have to understand they still have a bad taste in their mouths from being banned for simply having an opinion


----------



## fabi1982

VIP86 said:


> @Firefromthegods i disagree with @Ozell Gray, @Chip Chipperson, @The Wood about the news not affecting the ratings this week
> 
> but i don't blame them for being extra stubborn and defensive about their points
> you have to understand they still have a bad taste in their mouths from being banned for simply having an opinion


All they want is an answer to why NXT not just grew audience but demo as well compared to last week. I stated that myself on Thursday and no answer was given yet by all these „news brought everything down“ people.


----------



## CM Buck

VIP86 said:


> @Firefromthegods i disagree with @Ozell Gray, @Chip Chipperson, @The Wood about the news not affecting the ratings this week
> 
> but i don't blame them for being extra stubborn and defensive about their points
> you have to understand they still have a bad taste in their mouths from being banned for simply having an opinion


I know. I'm not saying don't have an opinion. This place would be boring if we all agreed. I'm just touchy cause of recent events


----------



## Pentagon Senior

fabi1982 said:


> All they want is an answer to why NXT not just grew audience but demo as well compared to last week. I stated that myself on Thursday and no answer was given yet by all these „news brought everything down“ people.


I'll be honest mate, I'm not 100% sure. 

But...many people have given answers - mainly that they both got their 'core' viewers whilst the 'floaters' watched the news. I think Bdon also pointed out that NXT had an artificially low figure the previous week and AEW artificially high because of the Brodie show. So a slight increase back to core viewership is not unexpected for NXT? That all seems pretty rational to me but we're always guessing, to some extent. 

What is a pisstake though is folks making out that the news didn't have an effect for AEW when no matter how you look at it - it blatantly did. They never get 660k and 0.25 demo let alone on a 'special'. It's so clear that anybody pretending the news was not a factor for AEW must be acting in bad faith.


----------



## The Wood

Firefromthegods said:


> @Pippen94 @The Wood @Chip Chipperson @Ozell Gray whomever else is dick measuring in this thread.
> 
> Enough. Stop always needing to be right. If someone presents facts that refute your argument like Pippen94 did when he provided what i assume is a credible source then just concede. If there's evidence aew won or lost just accept it. If aew does well just accept it. I'm fine with debate. And I recognise there's an aew poster war. But you guys need to learn to let shit go. Stop dick measuring. That's all this fucking thread is.
> 
> This thread is for discussing numbers. Its not another battle ground for the chip coalition and the elite forum edition. If you guys need a place where you can measure units i will simply make a rants thread for all participants who wish to fight.
> 
> So, stop fighting. Talk about the numbers.


Well that’s what I’m honestly trying to do. I’m just being told to get warned because I disagree that whatever is being provided says what it actually said.

We’re not talking about which side “won” this week. AEW fanboys are acting like the number is down solely because of the news. NXT actually had a ratings increase. How does that make any sense if people are choosing to throw away their entire habits to watch the 24/7 news cycle non-stop?

NO ONE has had an answer for that, and I will not stop asking because it’s a good question. 



Pentagon Senior said:


> I'll be honest mate, I'm not 100% sure.
> 
> But...many people have given answers though - mainly that they both got their 'core' viewers whilst the 'floaters' watched the news. I think Bdon also pointed out that NXT has an artificially low figure the previous week and AEW artificially high because of the Brodie show. So a slight increase back to core viewership is not unexpected for NXT? That all seems pretty rational to me but we're always guessing, to some extent.
> 
> What is a pisstake though is folks making out that the news didn't have an effect for AEW when no matter how you look at it - it blatently did. They never get 660k and 0.25 demo let alone on a 'special'. Anybody pretending the news was not a factor is acting in bad faith.


See? This sort of snide behaviour and the sucking up to you is far more egregious. It’s not a fact that the news was going to have a negative effect on AEW. It had a positive one on NXT. That’s the point.

If Pentagon’s got a proper answer, cool. But it’s not really fair he just gets to dismiss everyone who doesn’t see things the way he does as acting in “bad faith.”


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> Well that’s what I’m honestly trying to do. I’m just being told to get warned because I disagree that whatever is being provided says what it actually said.
> 
> We’re not talking about which side “won” this week. AEW fanboys are acting like the number is down solely because of the news. NXT actually had a ratings increase. How does that make any sense if people are choosing to throw away their entire habits to watch the 24/7 news cycle non-stop?
> 
> NO ONE has had an answer for that, and I will not stop asking because it’s a good question.
> 
> 
> 
> See? This sort of snide behaviour and the sucking up to you is far more egregious. It’s not a fact that the news was going to have a negative effect on AEW. It had a positive one on NXT. That’s the point.
> 
> If Pentagon’s got a proper answer, cool. But it’s not really fair he just gets to dismiss everyone who doesn’t see things the way he does as acting in “bad faith.”


A better argument would be more difficult to dismiss. 

I specifically explained why it is clearly a bad faith argument. If you can point me in the direction of a recent episode that drew 660k/0.25 demo, preferably a 'special' and without an unprecedented event happening simultaneously - I will detract my conclusion. Or any example close to that.

Until then I will mainain my position.


----------



## CM Buck

The Wood said:


> Well that’s what I’m honestly trying to do. I’m just being told to get warned because I disagree that whatever is being provided says what it actually said.
> 
> We’re not talking about which side “won” this week. AEW fanboys are acting like the number is down solely because of the news. NXT actually had a ratings increase. How does that make any sense if people are choosing to throw away their entire habits to watch the 24/7 news cycle non-stop?
> 
> NO ONE has had an answer for that, and I will not stop asking because it’s a good question.
> 
> 
> 
> See? This sort of snide behaviour and the sucking up to you is far more egregious. It’s not a fact that the news was going to have a negative effect on AEW. It had a positive one on NXT. That’s the point.
> 
> If Pentagon’s got a proper answer, cool. But it’s not really fair he just gets to dismiss everyone who doesn’t see things the way he does as acting in “bad faith.”


I'm just trying to cool down the fires. I have a question. How do we know people actually watched nxt that day? You are the TV guy. A show can still get good ratings if it's just playing in the background right?

Maybe more people physically changed the channel to watch adults complain while the nxt fans watched adults throw tantrums on their phone?


----------



## rbl85

Firefromthegods said:


> I'm just trying to cool down the fires. I have a question. How do we know people actually watched nxt that day? You are the TV guy. A show can still get good ratings if it's just playing in the background right?
> 
> Maybe more people physically changed the channel to watch adults complain *while the nxt fans watched adults throw tantrums on their phone?*


The NXT viewers are older than the AEW viewers so it would make more sense if it was the opposite.


----------



## CM Buck

rbl85 said:


> The NXT viewers are older than the AEW viewers so it would make more sense if it was the opposite.


Really? I thought that was a myth started by aew fans cause wwe is run by boomers etc


----------



## fabi1982

Pentagon Senior said:


> I'll be honest mate, I'm not 100% sure.
> 
> But...many people have given answers - mainly that they both got their 'core' viewers whilst the 'floaters' watched the news. I think Bdon also pointed out that NXT had an artificially low figure the previous week and AEW artificially high because of the Brodie show. So a slight increase back to core viewership is not unexpected for NXT? That all seems pretty rational to me but we're always guessing, to some extent.
> 
> What is a pisstake though is folks making out that the news didn't have an effect for AEW when no matter how you look at it - it blatantly did. They never get 660k and 0.25 demo let alone on a 'special'. It's so clear that anybody pretending the news was not a factor for AEW must be acting in bad faith.


I totally agree, except for the fact, that all of these said before it may not have an effect, as usually big things (finals, election) didnt have an effect on AEW. But I argree mostly with your point!!


----------



## Pentagon Senior

fabi1982 said:


> I totally agree, except for the fact, that all of these said before it may not have an effect, as usually big things (finals, election) didnt have an effect on AEW. But I argree mostly with your point!!


Yes and I agree with you - some folks were saying it would have no effect. I actually predicted that it would have an effect (maybe by 50k) but nowhere near the amount it did.

But the most obvious conclusion is that it DID have a major effect, for whatever reason. Bearing in mind the unprecedented nature of events I'm not sure it's anything worth losing sleep over. Hopefully the Capitol buildings don't get stormed every week going forwards 🙂


----------



## zaz102

Pentagon Senior said:


> I'll be honest mate, I'm not 100% sure.
> 
> But...many people have given answers - mainly that they both got their 'core' viewers whilst the 'floaters' watched the news. I think Bdon also pointed out that NXT had an artificially low figure the previous week and AEW artificially high because of the Brodie show. So a slight increase back to core viewership is not unexpected for NXT? That all seems pretty rational to me but we're always guessing, to some extent.
> 
> What is a pisstake though is folks making out that the news didn't have an effect for AEW when no matter how you look at it - it blatantly did. They never get 660k and 0.25 demo let alone on a 'special'. It's so clear that anybody pretending the news was not a factor for AEW must be acting in bad faith.


Something to add to this is that Dynamite's numbers have been very volatile compared to NXT (and Raw and Smackdown). NXT ratings have been pretty steady (albeit slight decline) since last year. This can be seen clearly in the trends.

Not sure why this is either, but it seems clear that Dynamite still hasn't solidified their viewership as compared to NXT. I could make a few guesses based on some of the data-

1. External factors cause impact (this coincides with how Dynamite had a huge drop when the pandemic hit vs NXT hardly had a hit).

2. More people that don't watch every week are willing to give it a chance when it has a good show expected or NXT is pre-empted.


----------



## fabi1982

Pentagon Senior said:


> Yes and I agree with you - some folks were saying it would have no effect. I actually predicted that it would have an effect (maybe by 50k) but nowhere near the amount it did.
> 
> But the most obvious conclusion is that it DID have a major effect, for whatever reason. Bearing in mind the unprecedented nature of events I'm not sure it's anything worth losing sleep over. Hopefully the Capitol buildings don't get stormed every week going forwards 🙂


And hopefully nothing happens on the 20th for the sake of the AEW ratings and this thread


----------



## Pentagon Senior

zaz102 said:


> Something to add to this is that Dynamite's numbers have been very volatile compared to NXT (and Raw and Smackdown). NXT ratings have been pretty steady (albeit slight decline) since last year. This can be seen clearly in the trends.
> 
> Not sure why this is either, but it seems clear that Dynamite still hasn't solidified their viewership as compared to NXT. I could make a few guesses based on some of the data-
> 
> 1. External factors cause impact (this coincides with how Dynamite had a huge drop when the pandemic hit vs NXT hardly had a hit).
> 
> 2. More people that don't watch every week are willing to give it a chance when it has a good show expected or NXT is pre-empted.


Yes, interesting. I think someone remarked that they both have a pretty solid core of circa 700k then there seems to be a 'floater' element of around 200k that will choose by the week, but tend to choose AEW nine times out of ten.

Why is that? Anyone's guess but likely several factors. AEW not being an established promotion compared with WWE might be one? Dynamite can be inconsistent in quality too which may affect.



fabi1982 said:


> And hopefully nothing happens on the 20th for the sake of the AEW ratings and this thread


Haha so true


----------



## zaz102

Pentagon Senior said:


> Yes, interesting. I think someone remarked that they both have a pretty solid core of circa 700k then there seems to be a 'floater' element of around 200k that will choose by the week, but tend to choose AEW nine times out of ten.
> 
> Why is that? Anyone's guess but likely several factors. AEW not being an established promotion compared with WWE might be one? Dynamite can be inconsistent in quality too which may affect.


I personally agree with your assessment. I think people think that with WWE, they know what they're getting. AEW is still a relatively unknown.

This is anecdotal, but I've seen comments on here and Reddit where people said something like they just gave AEW a chance or usually they watch another program but checked AEW due to something happening.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

zaz102 said:


> I personally agree with your assessment. I think people think that with WWE, they know what they're getting. AEW is still a relatively unknown.
> 
> This is anecdotal, but I've seen comments on here and Reddit where people said something like they just gave AEW a chance or usually they watch another program but checked AEW due to something happening.


Yeh seems rational to me too. 

2021 figures should give us a fuller picture, as we've previously discussed, it's difficult to read too much into a first full year's trading dominated by a global pandemic.


----------



## rbl85

Firefromthegods said:


> Really? I thought that was a myth started by aew fans cause wwe is run by boomers etc


I don't know about that but for me it would be more logical to see younger people watch something on their phone than older people.


----------



## rbl85

zaz102 said:


> Something to add to this is that Dynamite's numbers have been very volatile compared to NXT (and Raw and Smackdown). NXT ratings have been pretty steady (albeit slight decline) since last year. This can be seen clearly in the trends.
> 
> Not sure why this is either, but it seems clear that Dynamite still hasn't solidified their viewership as compared to NXT. I could make a few guesses based on some of the data-
> 
> 1. External factors cause impact (this coincides with how Dynamite had a huge drop when the pandemic hit vs NXT hardly had a hit).
> 
> 2. More people that don't watch every week are willing to give it a chance when it has a good show expected or NXT is pre-empted.


Don't forget that NXT is not 2 years old like AEW.


----------



## RapShepard

The amount of fucking tattling on both sides is insane.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> The news *did not cause the drop.* NXT went up. 1.3 million people watched wrestling on Wednesdays. That’s not too far off from the number other weeks.


NXT went up to the baseline sharing the 1.2m DIEHARD wrestling fans who will refuse to change the channel off NXT or AEW when Jesus Christ rips open the Eastern Sky. Your point doesn’t mean shit...


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Real Housewives went down 200k. Hmm, it’s almost like only the most casual viewers stopped watching. It basically remained the same in that beloved key demo, by the way.
> 
> These narratives are such bullshit.
> 
> *If NXT was using the news to defend bad ratings and AEW went up, don’t think these arguments wouldn’t be completely flipped.*


And I’d be standing right by your side letting them know how intellectually dishonest they were being.

Like you are right now.


fabi1982 said:


> All they want is an answer to why NXT not just grew audience but demo as well compared to last week. I stated that myself on Thursday and no answer was given yet by all these „news brought everything down“ people.


I have explained the answer: AEW was up the prior week massively due to Brodie Lee’s death. NXT was down massively below 600k the previous week due to everyone watching AEW’s Brodie Lee tribute show. 

Should we really mock AEW for HAVING to go DOWN in order to reach the baseline number? Just like SmackDown HAD to go down 1m + in order to reach their baseline?

Let’s throw a fucking party for NXT for GOING UP TO THEIR BASELINE!!!



The Wood said:


> NO ONE has had an answer for that, and I will not stop asking because it’s a good question.


I stated the answer. You ignored it.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Pentagon Senior said:


> A better argument would be more difficult to dismiss.
> 
> I specifically explained why it is clearly a bad faith argument. If you can point me in the direction of a recent episode that drew 660k/0.25 demo, preferably a 'special' and without an unprecedented event happening simultaneously - I will detract my conclusion. Or any example close to that.
> 
> Until then I will mainain my position.


Dates AEW has been within 50-60k of the 660k rating (From most recent):

25.11.2020 - 712k

04.11.2020 - 717k

08.07.2020 - 715k (Lost to NXT)

24.06.2020 - 633k (Lost to NXT)

15.04.2020 - 683k (Lost to NXT)

08.04.2020 - 692k (Lost to NXT)

---

There were two in 2019 also so it's a total of 8 times that they've managed around that number. If we go with truly recent the only true examples could be 04.11 and 25.11 but that's still two recent examples.

For what it's worth I want to reiterate I'm not getting into the "People were watching news" "No they weren't!" thing. It doesn't seem too crazy though that maybe the majority of the floaters either weren't watching or watched NXT though.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> For what it's worth I want to reiterate I'm not getting into the "People were watching news" "No they weren't!" thing. It doesn't seem too crazy though that maybe the majority of the floaters either weren't watching or watched NXT though.


But NXT came UP to its baseline. They were down the previous week at dangerous levels (I believe their lowest rating ever) due to everyone being over at TNT watching in honor of Brodie Lee. 

How low do we think these shows can genuinely drop? What more could NXT have lost from that paltry number the previous week..? Their soul..?

AEW typically does 800-850k. NXT typically does its 650k. I’ve said this since November 2019: AEW has roughly 200k casual viewers who are willing to choose AEW most weeks over other programming. This further shows that there are roughly 1.2m people who are living and breathing on their weekly fix of Wednesday night wrestling.

Where this should really be of concern to WWE is that they’re in dangerous waters for Raw’s crowd, because that number isn’t much higher than the very baseline audience.

What’s Raw averaging these days? 1.5-1.7m..? They can’t afford another year losing 25% of its audience.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Chip Chipperson said:


> Dates AEW has been within 50-60k of the 660k rating (From most recent):
> 
> 25.11.2020 - 712k
> 
> 04.11.2020 - 717k
> 
> 08.07.2020 - 715k (Lost to NXT)
> 
> 24.06.2020 - 633k (Lost to NXT)
> 
> 15.04.2020 - 683k (Lost to NXT)
> 
> 08.04.2020 - 692k (Lost to NXT)
> 
> ---
> 
> There were two in 2019 also so it's a total of 8 times that they've managed around that number. If we go with truly recent the only true examples could be 04.11 and 25.11 but that's still two recent examples.
> 
> For what it's worth I want to reiterate I'm not getting into the "People were watching news" "No they weren't!" thing. It doesn't seem too crazy though that maybe the majority of the floaters either weren't watching or watched NXT though.


Thanks for doing the research. Not being awkward but demo is obviously important here too - 0.25 is very low for AEW and suggests abnormal conditions.

But even that aside, it's 6 months since the total viewership was as low as 660k and averages have increased a lot since they recovered from the pandemic (which we're all aware of). Which proves my point that this is an abnormal rating at the current state if play. Factor in the 'special' nature of the episode and it's even moreso the case. 

On your last point - I'm glad we're not going there as I don't see any rationale for that debate to continue. It's clear to anyone who's been keeping an eye on trends that somethings abnormal happened last Weds. And it doesn't take a brain surgeon who work out what that would be. The vast majority have accepted that and moved on. 

Furthermore, Bdon has repeatedly pointed out why NXT would naturally have grown from their remarkably low figure the week before too (due to the Brodie effect). 

It all ties up from where I'm sitting.


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> A better argument would be more difficult to dismiss.
> 
> I specifically explained why it is clearly a bad faith argument. If you can point me in the direction of a recent episode that drew 660k/0.25 demo, preferably a 'special' and without an unprecedented event happening simultaneously - I will detract my conclusion. Or any example close to that.
> 
> Until then I will mainain my position.


No, that’s still avoiding it. Chip listed a bunch, and none of that explains how a show would do better last week than the week before despite the news.



Firefromthegods said:


> I'm just trying to cool down the fires. I have a question. How do we know people actually watched nxt that day? You are the TV guy. A show can still get good ratings if it's just playing in the background right?
> 
> Maybe more people physically changed the channel to watch adults complain while the nxt fans watched adults throw tantrums on their phone?


Yeah, we don’t. That could be Dynamite and NXT every week.

What doesn’t make sense is the argument that the news hurt AEW but helped NXT hexayse



Firefromthegods said:


> Really? I thought that was a myth started by aew fans cause wwe is run by boomers etc


It largely is. There’s a difference age median of about 5 years or something. AEW fans try to spin that into having the _much_ cooler and younger skewing show. In reality, they’re watched by largely the same audiences, with a lot of younger fans prioritising AEW either because of deliberate urgency or simply because the use the WWE Network for NXT the next day instead of watching everything Wednesday.

If you go into the thread about other shows, you’ll see quite a few hardcore AEW fans admitting this. Nobody says “I watch NXT right away.” But you’ve got a few that mention DVRing it or something. 



bdon said:


> NXT went up to the baseline sharing the 1.2m DIEHARD wrestling fans who will refuse to change the channel off NXT or AEW when Jesus Christ rips open the Eastern Sky. Your point doesn’t mean shit...


Dude, that actually is my point. The news is not fucking around with wrestling fans. Thanks.


----------



## bdon

Pentagon Senior said:


> Furthermore, Bdon has repeatedly pointed out why NXT would naturally have grown from their remarkably low figure the week before too (due to the Brodie effect).


Tell ‘em, bdon!


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Dude, that actually is my point. The news is not fucking around with wrestling fans. Thanks.


Those 200k casual fans will leave when they find something more interesting to watch. The goddamn Whitehouse Invasion beats the hell out of any AEW Invasion angle.

But go ahead and pretend those 200k fans just chose to watch Blues Clues.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> No, that’s still avoiding it. Chip listed a bunch, and none of that explains how a show would do better last week than the week before despite the news.


Ok dude, you keep running with it, I've said what I need to say and responded to Chip. I'll leave it there. 



bdon said:


> Tell ‘em, bdon!


Haha, I tried! 



bdon said:


> Those 200k casual fans will leave when they find something more interesting to watch. The goddamn Whitehouse Invasion beats the hell out of any AEW Invasion angle.
> 
> But go ahead and pretend those 200k fans just chose to watch Blues Clues.


Perhaps THEY were the ones rioting?


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Those 200k casual fans will leave when they find something more interesting to watch. The goddamn Whitehouse Invasion beats the hell out of any AEW Invasion angle.
> 
> But go ahead and pretend those 200k fans just chose to watch Blues Clues.


Except that’s not what I’m saying, lol. I’m saying that the people who normally watch Blue’s Clues aren’t switching over to watch the news in 2021. They’ll watch Blue’s Clues and THEN watch the news. Or watch the news and THEN watch Blue’s Clues. There’s no actually pressing reason for the news to be cutting into audiences, which is why AEW got about 650k and NXT actually went up and did the same. That is your Wednesday night audience. 1.3 million people with about 200k who are probably as invested in Blue’s Clues as this modern wrestling product.

Just shut the fuck up to me about growth and acting like every single viewer who watches Dynamite, even in the most cursory sense, absolutely loves and adores it and is going to stick by the product until the end.

We know they get hate-watches and boredom watches. We know that they sit at about 600k people actually genuinely with the product. That’s not going up because ALL of wrestling has trouble putting together a successfully logical and engaging product.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Except that’s not what I’m saying, lol. I’m saying that the people who normally watch Blue’s Clues aren’t switching over to watch the news in 2021. They’ll watch Blue’s Clues and THEN watch the news. Or watch the news and THEN watch Blue’s Clues. There’s no actually pressing reason for the news to be cutting into audiences, which is why AEW got about 650k and NXT actually went up and did the same. That is your Wednesday night audience. 1.3 million people with about 200k who are probably as invested in Blue’s Clues as this modern wrestling product.
> 
> Just shut the fuck up to me about growth and acting like every single viewer who watches Dynamite, even in the most cursory sense, absolutely loves and adores it and is going to stick by the product until the end.
> 
> We know they get hate-watches and boredom watches. We know that they sit at about 600k people actually genuinely with the product. That’s not going up because ALL of wrestling has trouble putting together a successfully logical and engaging product.


Except they fucking get those 200k extra viewers damn near every fucking week. Just like I argued your ass November 2019 when you were still championing NXT’s upcoming wins.

They get those 200k viewers most weeks. So YOU shut the fuck up acting like those 200k viewers aren’t genuinely a part of AEW’s average crowd, you intellectually dishonest asshole.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Possibly. I’ll say this: AEW’s confidence and pride in appealing to the niche has irked me enough that I appreciate WWE and their half-assed attempts to do...well, whatever it is they do.
> 
> NEVER thought I would find themselves trying to empathise with those assholes.


Intellectual dishonesty, because AEW hurt your feelings by lying about being a sports-based product.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Bdon has finally turned heel.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Bdon has finally turned heel.


I call it as I see it. If that makes me a heel so fucking be it.


----------



## Shock Street

bdon said:


> I call it as I see it. If that makes me a heel so fucking be it.


If you're rhyming now you're definitely a heel


----------



## bdon

Shock Street said:


> If you're rhyming now you're definitely a heel


Haha


----------



## CM Buck

Fair enough. Maybe its excuses on aew fans part @The Wood like we had when nxt was low key competing with main roster. If someone won't explain just chalk it up as a win for you i guess 

As for the boomer audience or whatever generation we are apart of liking both shows that's what I figured. 

I


----------



## Ozell Gray

Firefromthegods said:


> Fair enough. Maybe its excuses on aew fans part @The Wood like we had when nxt was low key competing with main roster. If someone won't explain just chalk it up as a win for you i guess
> 
> As for the boomer audience or whatever generation we are apart of liking both shows that's what I figured.
> 
> I


AEW fans are 48 years old while WWE fans are 55 years old so AEW doesn't really have this "young audience" like people like to believe. 

👉While AEW still has the youngest average audience in wrestling, that median age is 48 (69% male)👈. RAW is the second youngest (51, 64% male), followed by Smackdown (54, 60% male) and NXT (56, 64% male). AEW also averages more viewers live than the other wrestling shows.










411MANIA | Notes On Changing Demographic Numbers for AEW Dynamite


Some updated demographic numbers for AEW Dynamite in the second quarter of 2020, as the average audience has aged older...




411mania.com




.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Except they fucking get those 200k extra viewers damn near every fucking week. Just like I argued your ass November 2019 when you were still championing NXT’s upcoming wins.
> 
> They get those 200k viewers most weeks. So YOU shut the fuck up acting like those 200k viewers aren’t genuinely a part of AEW’s average crowd, you intellectually dishonest asshole.


Okay. There are 200k people who usually watch AEW who don’t give a fuck about it. Usually we factor them into averages when we talk about the 750k or 800k fans that watch, but maybe we should be more expressly clear that they aren’t that into AEW.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Okay. There are 200k people who usually watch AEW who don’t give a fuck about it. Usually we factor them into averages when we talk about the 750k or 800k fans that watch, but maybe we should be more expressly clear that they aren’t that into AEW.


So, they are casual fans. Every television show has them.

Glad you can bring yourself to admit they have 200k fans who typically choose their product, but are willing to look elsewhere. How hard was that, man? Why you fight the urge to mutter ANYTHING that may be deemed positive about AEW is beyond me. Fuck the zealots who refuse to talk negatively about the product of which there are a plethora of things to discuss.

Just cause they can’t be honest, doesn’t mean we should reciprocate the favor in the other direction.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> So, they are casual fans. Every television show has them.
> 
> Glad you can bring yourself to admit they have 200k fans who typically choose their product, but are willing to look elsewhere. How hard was that, man? Why you fight the urge to mutter ANYTHING that may be deemed positive about AEW is beyond me. Fuck the zealots who refuse to talk negatively about the product of which there are a plethora of things to discuss.
> 
> Just cause they can’t be honest, doesn’t mean we should reciprocate the favor in the other direction.


Lol, not sure how you’re getting that as a positive thing. There’s definitely a good side to having casuals. Not sure if that’s casual enough to actually help out via word of mouth or anything.


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> So, they are casual fans. Every television show has them.
> 
> Glad you can bring yourself to admit they have 200k fans who typically choose their product, but are willing to look elsewhere. How hard was that, man? Why you fight the urge to mutter ANYTHING that may be deemed positive about AEW is beyond me. Fuck the zealots who refuse to talk negatively about the product of which there are a plethora of things to discuss.
> 
> Just cause they can’t be honest, doesn’t mean we should reciprocate the favor in the other direction.


You think maybe younger viewers that accounted for most of drop, choose to watch news because they know how to DVR or watch later on YouTube or is that too logical & conflicts with this casual thing you're pushing with no evidence??


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> You think maybe younger viewers that accounted for most of drop, choose to watch news because they know how to DVR or watch later on YouTube or is that too logical & conflicts with this casual thing you're pushing with no evidence??


Young people can get the news on their phones.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Lol, not sure how you’re getting that as a positive thing. There’s definitely a good side to having casuals. Not sure if that’s casual enough to actually help out via word of mouth or anything.


I didn’t take it as a positive, but we both know the more zealot-y fans would take that as a sign that AEW is creating new fans. They have engaged a subset of 200k fans that they have not made diehards. It isn’t a bad thing, but it isn’t a great thing either. Somewhere in the middle.


----------



## DaSlacker

The actual non casual wrestling audience in North America is relatively small and somewhat fixed. No more than 1.5 million people thesedays. I'm talking about those who are invested enough to spend money on it. Even when WWE was attracting upwards of 6 million viewers in 2009, their total attendance was peaking at 1.7 million tickets sold per year. Last year it was 1.3 million. The number of paid network subscribers is 1.2 million - about 500,000 more than their best PPV buy. That network number rose and plateaued as the DVD sales plummeted. The figures also correlate with the eCommerce orders (800,000 ww) increasing as venue merchandise sales decreased. 

All I'm saying is, even with AEW struggling to attract + 1 million people on cable and having a few more floating viewers than their weekly rival. Those 650,000 younger hardcores are a strong foundation to build a brand in a niche market.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> I didn’t take it as a positive, but we both know the more zealot-y fans would take that as a sign that AEW is creating new fans. They have engaged a subset of 200k fans that they have not made diehards. It isn’t a bad thing, but it isn’t a great thing either. Somewhere in the middle.


Fair enough. But the obvious point to raise is that it’s far fewer fans that were willing to give AEW a chance at a start, and they’re clearly not going growing that audience. They’re always in the same range. The wrestling audience isn’t growing, nor does AEW ever earn a larger slice of 



DaSlacker said:


> The actual non casual wrestling audience in North America is relatively small and somewhat fixed. No more than 1.5 million people thesedays. I'm talking about those who are invested enough to spend money on it. Even when WWE was attracting upwards of 6 million viewers in 2009, their total attendance was peaking at 1.7 million tickets sold per year. Last year it was 1.3 million. The number of paid network subscribers is 1.2 million - about 500,000 more than their best PPV buy. That network number rose and plateaued as the DVD sales plummeted. The figures also correlate with the eCommerce orders (800,000 ww) increasing as venue merchandise sales decreased.
> 
> All I'm saying is, even with AEW struggling to attract + 1 million people on cable and having a few more floating viewers than their weekly rival. Those 650,000 younger hardcores are a strong foundation to build a brand in a niche market.


Reasonable post. But that niche is going to be a sizeable promotion that has national cable no matter what. That’s why them doing arena shows, grabbing JR, getting Jericho (initially) and having TNT was important. That is going to grab you 650k wrestling nerds, right?

The problem is, that audience can become gatekeepy and keep you from attracting wrestling “civilians” and prevent growth. Especially if you cater to them.

AEW, in my opinion, has done a pretty dog-awful job of appealing to the casual fan. The benefits of which are worth of mouth, brand recognition, general buzz and also having a much larger pool of people to draw ticket sales, merchandise sales from, etc.

The problem with a niche audience where 10% pay for PPV is that if/when that loyalty dries up, or that resource otherwise exhausted — you have nothing.

Think of it this way: If you have a business selling t-shirts and you manage to make a pretty penny because all your friends and relatives keep buying them, you might think that a sale is a sale, right? But when grandma loses the pension, Uncle Jeff is out of work and Bob down the street can’t justify ten shirts a year, you’re in trouble.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Fair enough. But the obvious point to raise is that it’s far fewer fans that were willing to give AEW a chance at a start, and they’re clearly not going growing that audience. They’re always in the same range. The wrestling audience isn’t growing, nor does AEW ever earn a larger slice of


They have had multiple opportunities to steal eyes, but they always piss them away by following a great show with a piss poor one that focuses on Dark talent.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> They have had multiple opportunities to steal eyes, but they always piss them away by following a great show with a piss poor one that focuses on Dark talent.


The line between Dark talent and Dynamite talent is blurry and trivial to me, but I see your point.

They don’t know enough about putting on good shows to do one anything other than accidentally.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> The line between Dark talent and Dynamite talent is blurry and trivial to me, but I see your point.
> 
> They don’t know enough about putting on good shows to do one anything other than accidentally.


Lmfao

They spent a summer thinking a show focused on Midcard Cody and 50 year old Jericho with Cassidy was a good idea.

The ratings proved them wrong.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW: 762,000 (0.30)

NXT: 551,000 (0.14)


----------



## Mr316

You could blame it on the news last week. Are you gonna blame it on the news again? Fact is, nothing about AEW is must see TV.

752k viewers for a company that spent 100 million$. Not good.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Close to 800k viewers. 762k is close enough but an increase is an increase.


----------



## fabi1982

I know i knoe impeachment yadiyaa, but damn you guys over there love your news channels...this wasnt must see tv like a week ago and honestly this weeks dynamite deserved a better rating


----------



## 3venflow

Updated my post above with the NXT rating. Someone else can do the week on week trend thing.


----------



## One Shed

Mediocre, schizophrenic episodes deserve mediocre ratings.


----------



## RainmakerV2

NXT is terrible lol.


----------



## 3venflow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1349826562636582912


----------



## rbl85

Why are the news shows that high again this week ?


----------



## 3venflow

rbl85 said:


> Why are the news shows that high again this week ?


Trump impeachment?


----------



## The XL 2

AEW is declining and NXT is on life support. There is nothing that interesting about these shows, nothing is must see, the promos are nothing special. Characters, what characters? Just a bunch of poorly booked midgets being showcased doing their meaningless spotfest match with the occasional vanilla big guy who has no charisma. There is barely any talent left in the business and the booking is somehow even worse than the talent is.


----------



## rbl85

3venflow said:


> Trump impeachment?


I forgot about that, well i live in France and the media here didn't talk that much about it.


----------



## The XL 2

I'd be surprised if USA doesn't cancel NXT soon.


----------



## Mr316

The XL 2 said:


> AEW is declining and NXT is on life support. There is nothing that interesting about these shows, nothing is must see, the promos are nothing special. Characters, what characters? Just a bunch of poorly booked midgets being showcased doing their meaningless spotfest match with the occasional vanilla big guy who has no charisma. There is barely any talent left in the business and the booking is somehow even worse than the talent is.


THIS


----------



## fabi1982

The XL 2 said:


> I'd be surprised if USA doesn't cancel NXT soon.


They will never, they are dependent in the RAW numbers. So as long as RAW is on USA, NXT will


----------



## The XL 2

fabi1982 said:


> They will never, they are dependent in the RAW numbers. So as long as RAW is on USA, NXT will


Raw is basically in freefall as well, at some point Raw is going to be around 1 million and NXT is going to be under 500K.


----------



## izhack111

The show is boring for marks..they will never grow, only indy smarks watch the show


----------



## Aedubya

F#£-+ING NEWS!


----------



## fabi1982

The XL 2 said:


> Raw is basically in freefall as well, at some point Raw is going to be around 1 million and NXT is going to be under 500K.


Raw is still the top show on monday, USA doesnt care as long as they lead.


----------



## VIP86

AEW gaind 100,000 (back to their base viewers)
NXT lost 100,000 (down from their base viewers)
interesting
at this rate soon WWE will probably pay USA network to keep NXT no air


----------



## TKO Wrestling

A .3 generally lands AEW 5th to 15th, somewhere in that range. To be 30th shows you the power of the 2nd Impeachment. I mean it is non stop news. But, this two weeks in a row that AEW did not reach their prior year numbers after a 6 week stretch where they beat them.

And sadly next week looks incredibly weak. Worst show since around All Out, on paper. Wouldn't matter if it was good or bad, next Wednesday is the Inaguration, they won't draw much. 

That gives them a week to promote Beach Break on the 3rd so 1/27 and 2/3 should both be getting back to normal levels/competing/beating their year ago numbers.


----------



## rbl85

TKO Wrestling said:


> A .3 generally lands AEW 5th to 15th, somewhere in that range. To be 30th shows you the power of the 2nd Impeachment. I mean it is non stop news. But, this two weeks in a row that AEW did not reach their prior year numbers after a 6 week stretch where they beat them.
> 
> And sadly next week looks incredibly weak. *Worst show since around All Out, on paper. Wouldn't matter if it was good or bad, next Wednesday is the Inaguration, they won't draw much.*
> 
> That gives them a week to promote Beach Break on the 3rd so 1/27 and 2/3 should both be getting back to normal levels/competing/beating their year ago numbers.


Maybe why the show is weak on paper


----------



## Joe Gill

last weeks seige of the capitol building was definitely an excuse for poor ratings. the impeachment was over before dynamite aired....not an excuse this week.

1. kenny omega is not a draw as champion
2. everyone is sick of sting doing the same thing every week... his initial draw is over
3. inner circle is doing the same teasing crap every week... what makes it even worse is that no one gives a shit about the inner circle any more
4. aew blew it by not capitalizing on stings debut and omega alliance with impact... instead they force fed us goldust matches for two weeks... and next week we get luther. HALF of the show should be centered around omega/moxley/impact alliance/ sting.... all of those were the interesting storylines that got the ratings back near 1 million. bozos that run AEW though herp derp December is a slow month so lets wait until the new year. So they waited 3 weeks and now no one gives a shit about sting or impact alliance anymore. 

AEW is booked by amateurs who are more concerned that their friends get airtime than actually giving the fans the product that they want. they deserve this shit rating.

why even tune in next week? to see another pointless inner circle tease? to see luther? to see sting standing around for 5 minutes with snow confetti? what a joke.


----------



## Klitschko

Shit rating. Less then 800k is the most they could have gotten with a tv special episode?


----------



## Danielallen1410

Wow a lot of people watch the news in America.


----------



## kuja killer

for me personally, i was always watching when moxley was champ, but ever since he lost it a couple weeks ago, i no longer care much anymore.

I "was" excited for sting when it was first announced he was coming to AEW ...but holy cow does he piss me off so freaking damn hard. He's been purely 100% useless every week i just cant stand it. He'll just come out to the ring, say some words or a few sentences

.or just stand in the ring and probably point his bat at the guys, then it'll cut to commericial immediately soon after, and that's it for the week, nothing more. It's extremely annoying 

he should of defintely brought in some ratings but ughhhhh, he's been doing nothing whatsoever, and it really makes me hate him right now.


----------



## RiverFenix

There is no hot feuds right now. What am I supposed to care about? Bucks are terrible tag champs - totally non-entities. Omega is still trying to get his footing after a year of being under-utilized and under-pushed and now trying to get people to accept he's somebody they need to tune in for. Shida is non-existent as women's champ - NWA title is better booked/defended. Moxley is seemingly rarely around, and not announced for shows even when there lately. Moxley is spinning his tires until Revoution is seems when he'll fight Omega again and then take paternity leave soon there after. Sting has been doing the same shit every week since his debut and already over-exposed and played out. 

Where is the excitement?

It's a solid show, but nothing must-see.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

beep boop beep

0.30 is pretty good

next week is gonna be a massacre - we all know they'll be up to 0.36 - 0.42 thereafter

nothing to see, move along, news wins the day


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Klitschko said:


> Shit rating. Less then 800k is the most they could have gotten with a tv special episode?


up from last week / no love for the ratings bump?


----------



## Prized Fighter

Joe Gill said:


> last weeks seige of the capitol building was definitely an excuse for poor ratings. the impeachment was over before dynamite aired....not an excuse this week.


The news accounted for 35 of the top 50 rated shows. Including all of the top 15. AEW tied for the 4th highest non-news rated show. The news very clearly plays a factor. Even though the impeachment vote was over, the discussion on the new stations generated viewers. Not even the NBA games cracked the top 15. 

It is not an excuse to say that wrestling just don't come before two major events in USA history.


----------



## Klitschko

LifeInCattleClass said:


> up from last week / no love for the ratings bump?


I mean yea its up, but you have to admit that these special ppv like episodes used to bring in 850-900k or so of fans, but now they can't even do 800 with a pretty hyped card and people are cheering for it like its a big victory. 760 is not a big number at all. I was hoping this show would be around 850-900 as well.


----------



## Alright_Mate

Wouldn’t be surprised if AEW go on yet another average streak in terms of ratings.

Nothing is really must see atm, you get a good few moments here and there, the rest is just filled out with boring filler, showcasing their shitter talent.

Those who keep on rating the shows at least 8/10 are being far too kind.


----------



## Aedubya

LifeInCattleClass said:


> next week is gonna be a massacre - we all know they'll be up to 0.36 - 0.42 thereafter


New president sworn in isn't he?
AEW should switch night


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Klitschko said:


> I mean yea its up, but you have to admit that these special ppv like episodes used to bring in 850-900k or so of fans, but now they can't even do 800 with a pretty hyped card and people are cheering for it like its a big victory. 760 is not a big number at all. I was hoping this show would be around 850-900 as well.


i don’t have to admit jack shit 

unless you want to admit in 3 weeks when the news have died down and they do 900k again that your post is a bit of hyperbole?

cause c’mon - we all know its coming


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Aedubya said:


> New president sworn in isn't he?
> AEW should switch night


yup - new prez next wed

impeachments today

confirmed, the news hates aew


----------



## RubberbandGoat

You AEW haters are seriously nauseating. Get a life! Who cares about ratings? Go watch crappy WWE


----------



## Mister Sinister

Nothing surprising here about the rating. This booking is unbelievable.


----------



## Ozell Gray

Klitschko said:


> Shit rating. Less then 800k is the most they could have gotten with a tv special episode?


This isn't my MO but I'll defend them here. They got close to 800k with 762k viewers which is an increase from last week. Being under 800k is bad because anything under their average should be worrying for them and this was a special for them as well.


----------



## DaSlacker

I can imagine the numbers for Fox, CNN and MSNBC will drop off big time as the Biden era comes into effect. Generally because politics is generally boring unles it's a close election or a war has started. Joe is more sleep inducing than more; Trump was box office. There's the upcoming impeachment stuff but after that it's back to three years of arguining over funding and economic recovery. Trump will be back to playing golf and more people than normal will go on shooting rampages...

Whether that helps Wednesday Night Wrestling is another thing. Might give AEW a permanent spot in the top 5 demo.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The ratings are down for three reasons in my opinion:

1. It seems like they are doing a TV special or a PPV every single week. This is hotshotting and as we've discussed before in this thread people eventually get sick of hotshotting. Kenny/Fenix is a PPV match, Cage/Darby has had months of build and is a PPV match so if you're getting "big shows" every week they quickly become "Can miss" and people stop viewing them as big. That's where we're at currently.

2. No angles are fresh. We've got what is pretty much an nWo knock off at the top of the card, Abadon running around pretending to be The Undertaker, the stupidly long "Will he turn or won't he?" angle with MJF and the Inner Circle. It's all just shit we've seen before so there's no motivation to tune in UNLESS you like modern wrestling matches but even then how many times can you see a 725 taco splash into a spinning neckbreaker to the floor?

3. No emotional investment in characters. Why do I care that Kenny is holding the company hostage when Tony Khan and the roster doesn't? Why do I care about Shida being attacked by a supernatural being when I've never been given a reason to even like her? Ditto with MJF and Inner Circle who really cares if he will or will not turn on them?



fabi1982 said:


> They will never, they are dependent in the RAW numbers. So as long as RAW is on USA, NXT will


Yeah, NXT is most likely a cheap add on to the USA Network line up. They are probably happy with the 500-700k they bring and WWE is spending very little to achieve those numbers so they'd be happy also.



RubberbandGoat said:


> You AEW haters are seriously nauseating. Get a life! Who cares about ratings? Go watch crappy WWE


Says the fella who has clicked the ratings thread and taken the time to comment.



Klitschko said:


> I mean yea its up, but you have to admit that these special ppv like episodes used to bring in 850-900k or so of fans, but now they can't even do 800 with a pretty hyped card and people are cheering for it like its a big victory. 760 is not a big number at all. I was hoping this show would be around 850-900 as well.


This is spot on. Big shows used to be expected to hit 900k on a minimum and most fans hoped for a million we now have people pleased with 760k for a TV special.


----------



## Seafort

Mr316 said:


> THIS


AEW isn't doing what it could because of NXT. It's a blocker. It's not a legitimate effort by WWE to make a third television brand - otherwise they'd be mixing in people like Randy Orton and Roman Reigns in on a semi regular basis. If NXT gets cancelled in a year or two - that's besides the points. The point is to act as a barrier against AEW growth. And in that, the NXT television on USA is doing exactly what WWE intended. That's all it's there for.


----------



## La Parka

Who knew that teaming up with a dead wrestling company for your biggest angle would draw so poorly?


----------



## kingfrass44

RubberbandGoat said:


> You AEW haters are seriously nauseating. Get a life! Who cares about ratings? Go watch crappy WWE


There is no AEW haters 
There is only aew fanboys Sensitive Like you


----------



## DammitChrist

kingfrass44 said:


> *There is no AEW haters*
> There is only aew fanboys Sensitive Like you


That’s clearly a big lie right here 😂


----------



## Klitschko

Chip Chipperson said:


> The ratings are down for three reasons in my opinion:
> 
> 1. It seems like they are doing a TV special or a PPV every single week. This is hotshotting and as we've discussed before in this thread people eventually get sick of hotshotting. Kenny/Fenix is a PPV match, Cage/Darby has had months of build and is a PPV match so if you're getting "big shows" every week they quickly become "Can miss" and people stop viewing them as big. That's where we're at currently.
> 
> 2. No angles are fresh. We've got what is pretty much an nWo knock off at the top of the card, Abadon running around pretending to be The Undertaker, the stupidly long "Will he turn or won't he?" angle with MJF and the Inner Circle. It's all just shit we've seen before so there's no motivation to tune in UNLESS you like modern wrestling matches but even then how many times can you see a 725 taco splash into a spinning neckbreaker to the floor?
> 
> 3. No emotional investment in characters. Why do I care that Kenny is holding the company hostage when Tony Khan and the roster doesn't? Why do I care about Shida being attacked by a supernatural being when I've never been given a reason to even like her? Ditto with MJF and Inner Circle who really cares if he will or will not turn on them?
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, NXT is most likely a cheap add on to the USA Network line up. They are probably happy with the 500-700k they bring and WWE is spending very little to achieve those numbers so they'd be happy also.
> 
> 
> 
> Says the fella who has clicked the ratings thread and taken the time to comment.
> 
> 
> 
> This is spot on. Big shows used to be expected to hit 900k on a minimum and most fans hoped for a million we now have people pleased with 760k for a TV special.


This is a well thought out post. The 3 points are spot on in my opinion. I mean in just the past month alone we have had 4 specials. The Brodi one is understandable of course, and so is their Winter special. It was built up for a while, but then right after they put on two more back to back specials. They really do lose some meaning.


----------



## 3venflow

I think they have written off next week's show completely, ratings-wise, with the inauguration.

Cody vs. Dark mainstay Peter Avalon has been added. Avalon is quite funny in a quirky way, but there's a reason he's been on Dark.

So next week's card is:


Chris Jericho & MJF vs. Santana & Ortiz vs. Sammy Guevara & Jake Hager
Matt Hardy & Private Party vs. Matt Sydal & Top Flight
Nyla Rose vs. Leyla Hirsch
Jon Moxley vs. TBA
Adam Page & Dark Order vs. The Hybrid 2 & Chaos Project
Cody Rhodes vs. Peter Avalon

One of the weakest Dynamite cards I've seen. Moxley probably won't face anyone of note too. I can only surmise Cody's match will lead to his next angle/feud and they will probably set a few matches up for Beach Break.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Next week's card... a bunch of random matches and the Inner Dead Horse in a program with itself. But let's take a look at Mox vs TBA. Is it really that damn hard to figure out ahead of time that Mox should have a match against one of the Good Brothers? This is the basics of writing wrestling.

January used to be TNA's boom time. This was when new angles were set up and ratings would get a bump. AEW is mucking this up bad to be seeing a decline in viewers in January.


----------



## The Wood

1.3 million people watching. The same 1.3 million people probably.


----------



## The Wood

For those saying that USA cancels NXT:

-USA gets to keep all the ad revenue (versus TNT and half of Dynamite’s).

-USA is dependent on Raw.

-USA probably doesn’t pay much for NXT at all.

If NXT costs them $45 million per year, AEW would still need to make double what NXT does in ad revenue for it to be equal worth to TNT. It doesn’t seem likely it is doing that.


----------



## Punkhead

A pretty good rating for AEW as usual. Up a 100k from last week, obviously the news being the only reason why everything else on TV is doing worse numbers than they normally do.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lol..... understandable


----------



## Cult03

The only reason they beat NXT is star power. If they don't have Jericho and Moxley they lose 200k+ fans easily and are basically PWG/CHIKARA. They aren't beating NXT (In America by the way) because of in ring prowess, story lines and character work. They're beating them because of Jericho and Moxley and only exist because they hyped themselves as not WWE. Also, ratings don't matter anymore. Nobody cares what 800k Americans like to watch on Wednesday nights. Ratings need to update as we move into the future because streaming and international deals have made them redundant. It's time to move on.


----------



## Hitman1987

La Parka said:


> Who knew that teaming up with a dead wrestling company for your biggest angle would draw so poorly?


I think the angle itself is great, 2 lifelong friends who are EVPs of different companies working together to take control of both shows and run an invasion angle and reform a new bullet club which was arguably one of the most popular things outside WWE. I also think Kenny and Callis are playing their parts perfectly.

For me though, like most things with AEW, it’s the execution of a great idea that is lacking. Kenny should be booked as the most important part of every show that he’s on, be it impact or Dynamite. Instead, in his first match he got put through a table by Janela (shouldn’t be on TV), his 2nd match was awesome and main events as it should, then his 3rd match he’s in the middle of the card and opening the match against a guy from Dark and a low card tag team. As far as I’m concerned he should be in the main event of every show where he’s in action, be it singles, tag or title match. He should also wrestle less frequently and against better talent so each match feels more special. How are the viewers going to believe that this angle is the greatest thing happening in the industry if it’s not even treated as the greatest thing happening on a show.


----------



## VIP86

Cult03 said:


> The only reason they beat NXT is star power. If they don't have Jericho and Moxley they lose 200k+ fans easily and are basically PWG/CHIKARA. They aren't beating NXT (In America by the way) because of in ring prowess, story lines and character work. They're beating them because of Jericho and Moxley and only exist because they hyped themselves as not WWE.


you're upset because AEW have more star power than NXT ?
NXT never were intended to have Star power
they're just a wrestling school put on TV to mess with another up and coming company
plus WWE always had star power, but their ratings keep sinking
they lost 50% of their viewers in 3 years, and 20% in the last year alone
star power alone is not enough to maintain ratings
their shows are just plain boring


Cult03 said:


> Also, ratings don't matter anymore. Nobody cares what 800k Americans like to watch on Wednesday nights. Ratings need to update as we move into the future because streaming and international deals have made them redundant. It's time to move on.


try to tell that to the TV networks
they paid 1 billion to WWE based on what ?
they paid 175 million to AEW based on what ?
so clearly Ratings are the defining factor when TV deals are discussed


----------



## thorn123

Well I am in the minority, but for me, Dynamite has re invigorated wrestling. It’s not perfect but its far superior to the competition. Long term average of 7/10. Short term average 8/10.


----------



## fabi1982

DaveRA said:


> Well I am in the minority, but for me, Dynamite has re invigorated wrestling. It’s not perfect but its far superior to the competition. Long term average of 7/10. Short term average 8/10.


What I would like to know, and I dont want to pick on your opinion, what are the objective facts to that opinion. Take away the hatred of Vince not doing what the fans wanted for the last two decades. Just look purely objective on WWE and AEW and tell me what re invigorated wrestling? I often read these opinions and I often dont understand why people say storyline x is good, when the same poeple say storyline x done by WWE is wrong. I just take KO as an example compared to Kingston, both overweight, both good at the mic, KO is ALWAYS buried, when he loses and with Kingston I never read that he is buried because he is losing mostly all important matches. SO why is something like this ok for the one side but not for the other side?

And again I dont actually pick you, just saw your comment and really want to understand.


----------



## MoxAsylum

Oof, that's a bad number. I didn't bother watching either. Card looked awful. AEW really needs to cut out a lot of dead weight and push the actual stars in their roster. Stop with the atrocious comedy too. End the inner circle, stop having a billion factions, stop shoving Cody into everything, stop pushing dweeby allin. Cut trash wrestlers like Nyla, Sonny, Janela, Marko, etc...


----------



## thorn123

fabi1982 said:


> What I would like to know, and I dont want to pick on your opinion, what are the objective facts to that opinion. Take away the hatred of Vince not doing what the fans wanted for the last two decades. Just look purely objective on WWE and AEW and tell me what re invigorated wrestling? I often read these opinions and I often dont understand why people say storyline x is good, when the same poeple say storyline x done by WWE is wrong. I just take KO as an example compared to Kingston, both overweight, both good at the mic, KO is ALWAYS buried, when he loses and with Kingston I never read that he is buried because he is losing mostly all important matches. SO why is something like this ok for the one side but not for the other side?
> 
> And again I dont actually pick you, just saw your comment and really want to understand.


Part of it, was the tired old faces on WWE and WWE just rehashing the same thing. Partly, I believe AEW is superior in ring. IMO the Luchas, the bucks, omega, pac et al are awesome in the ring. And lastly, and probably most importantly, I like the characters on dynamite. Some don’t work for me, like Marko, chuck, OC, but overall I like them - maybe it’s just because they are new. I also feel AEW is less elitist than WWE. It feels like AEW wrestlers are having fun.

It feels good to enjoy wrestling, and I can genuinely say by Friday or Saturday I am hanging out for the next dynamite. I haven’t felt that since TNA prime. Also, I don’t expect perfection. I don’t get my feelings hurt or turn off when there is a poor segment.

I hope that answers your question.


----------



## fabi1982

DaveRA said:


> Part of it, was the tired old faces on WWE and WWE just rehashing the same thing. Partly, I believe AEW is superior in ring. IMO the Luchas, the bucks, omega, pac et al are awesome in the ring. And lastly, and probably most importantly, I like the characters on dynamite. Some don’t work for me, like Marko, chuck, OC, but overall I like them - maybe it’s just because they are new. I also feel AEW is less elitist than WWE. It feels like AEW wrestlers are having fun.
> 
> It feels good to enjoy wrestling, and I can genuinely say by Friday or Saturday I am hanging out for the next dynamite. I haven’t felt that since TNA prime. Also, I don’t expect perfection. I don’t get my feelings hurt or turn off when there is a poor segment.
> 
> I hope that answers your question.


Thanks for the honest answer and actually what I expected and see in the reactions to most. It is good because its new, hope this keeps being the reason in 4 years, because you can only say "for the first time" so much. And I agree on the wrestling part, it is less stricted, subjectively arguable if this is better or not, but again thanks for your answer, this makes much sense.


----------



## Cult03

VIP86 said:


> you're upset because AEW have more star power than NXT ?
> NXT never were intended to have Star power
> they're just a wrestling school put on TV to mess with another up and coming company
> plus WWE always had star power, but their ratings keep sinking
> they lost 50% of their viewers in 3 years, and 20% in the last year alone
> star power alone is not enough to maintain ratings
> their shows are just plain boring
> 
> try to tell that to the TV networks
> they paid 1 billion to WWE based on what ?
> they paid 175 million to AEW based on what ?
> so clearly Ratings are the defining factor when TV deals are discussed


Not upset, just pointing out the obvious. 

And yes, it's literally only important to the networks. That's entirely my point. It makes no difference to us and it's hilarious that anyone could spin it into a win when there's a million other variables to take into account.


----------



## VIP86

Cult03 said:


> Not upset, just pointing out the obvious.
> 
> And yes, it's literally only important to the networks. That's entirely my point. It makes no difference to us and it's hilarious that anyone could spin it into a win when there's a million other variables to take into account.


TV networks are the only reason PRO wrestling is still alive
unfortunately wrestling companies can't survive on just the live attendance anymore like the old days
so TV networks have the final word in everything


----------



## 3venflow

Darby seems good for ratings. A reminder that him vs. Ricky Starks earlier this year did a 1m quarter hour.

Apparently, Kenny's segment did the highest quarter hour.


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Lol..... understandable
> 
> View attachment 95845


That ass draws. No doubt.


----------



## 3venflow

Q1: Eddie Kingston vs. PAC – 733,000 viewers, 375,000 in 18-49
Q2: Miro vs. Chuck Taylor/Matt Hardy & Private Party interview – 717,000 viewers (down 16,000), 363,000 in 18-49 (down 12,000)
Q3: Inner Circle segment/Dark Order interview/Allin vs. Cage hype – 725,000 viewers (up 8,000), 353,000 in 18-49 (down 10,000)
Q4: Kenny Omega & The Good Brothers vs. Danny Limelight & The VarsIty Blondes – 824,000 viewers (up 99,000), 417,000 in 18-49 (up 64,000)
Q5: The Waiting Room segment & brawl ft. Cody, Jade Cargill & Red Velvet/Thunder Rosa promo – 756,000 viewers (down 68,000), 383,000 in 18-49 (down 34,000)
Q6: FTR vs. Jurassic Express – 773,000 viewers (up 17,000), 398,000 in 18-49 (up 15,000)
Q7: Serena Deeb vs. Tay Conti – 752,000 viewers (down 21,000), 385,000 in 18-49 (down 13,000)
Q8: Darby Allin vs. Brian Cage – 811,000 viewers (up 59,000), 425,000 in 18-49 (up 40,000)


----------



## ProjectGargano

3venflow said:


> Q1: Eddie Kingston vs. PAC – 733,000 viewers, 375,000 in 18-49
> Q2: Miro vs. Chuck Taylor/Matt Hardy & Private Party interview – 717,000 viewers (down 16,000), 363,000 in 18-49 (down 12,000)
> Q3: Inner Circle segment/Dark Order interview/Allin vs. Cage hype – 725,000 viewers (up 8,000), 353,000 in 18-49 (down 10,000)
> Q4: Kenny Omega & The Good Brothers vs. Danny Limelight & The VarsIty Blondes – 824,000 viewers (up 99,000), 417,000 in 18-49 (up 64,000)
> Q5: The Waiting Room segment & brawl ft. Cody, Jade Cargill & Red Velvet/Thunder Rosa promo – 756,000 viewers (down 68,000), 383,000 in 18-49 (down 34,000)
> Q6: FTR vs. Jurassic Express – 773,000 viewers (up 17,000), 398,000 in 18-49 (up 15,000)
> Q7: Serena Deeb vs. Tay Conti – 752,000 viewers (down 21,000), 385,000 in 18-49 (down 13,000)
> Q8: Darby Allin vs. Brian Cage – 811,000 viewers (up 59,000), 425,000 in 18-49 (up 40,000)


Griff Garrison is a draw, confirmed.


----------



## Klitschko

Darby and Cage are stars. Second highest rating of the show.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Klitschko said:


> Darby and Cage are stars. Second highest rating of the show.


And biggest 18-49.


----------



## Alright_Mate

But I thought Darby Allin didn’t have a fanbase 

Those “Angry Aussies” really are a bunch of deluded twats aren’t they.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Q1: Eddie Kingston vs. PAC – 733,000 viewers, 375,000 in 18-49
> Q2: Miro vs. Chuck Taylor/Matt Hardy & Private Party interview – 717,000 viewers (down 16,000), 363,000 in 18-49 (down 12,000)
> Q3: Inner Circle segment/Dark Order interview/Allin vs. Cage hype – 725,000 viewers (up 8,000), 353,000 in 18-49 (down 10,000)
> Q4: Kenny Omega & The Good Brothers vs. Danny Limelight & The VarsIty Blondes – 824,000 viewers (up 99,000), 417,000 in 18-49 (up 64,000)
> Q5: The Waiting Room segment & brawl ft. Cody, Jade Cargill & Red Velvet/Thunder Rosa promo – 756,000 viewers (down 68,000), 383,000 in 18-49 (down 34,000)
> Q6: FTR vs. Jurassic Express – 773,000 viewers (up 17,000), 398,000 in 18-49 (up 15,000)
> Q7: Serena Deeb vs. Tay Conti – 752,000 viewers (down 21,000), 385,000 in 18-49 (down 13,000)
> Q8: Darby Allin vs. Brian Cage – 811,000 viewers (up 59,000), 425,000 in 18-49 (up 40,000)


Big draw darby!

great to see - so, the Sting rub for weeks worked - interesting how it wasn't the 'dumbest thing ever' after all


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ProjectGargano said:


> Griff Garrison is a draw, confirmed.


WhoTFisGriffGarrison?!!!


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Glad to see Darby grow. Never expected it, always thought that it would be MJF/Hangman that made the first big jump.


----------



## bdon

3venflow said:


> Darby seems good for ratings. A reminder that him vs. Ricky Starks earlier this year did a 1m quarter hour.
> 
> Apparently, Kenny's segment did the highest quarter hour.
> 
> View attachment 95849


I don’t watch NXT, but that is scary low numbers for them. I don’t like seeing that shit, especially when their former longest reigning champion ever is involved in the main event.

Dangerous times for NXT.


----------



## Prosper

TKO Wrestling said:


> Glad to see Darby grow. Never expected it, always thought that it would be MJF/Hangman that made the first big jump.


Darby is just so damn cool its hard not to be a fan of him unless you just hate little guys.


----------



## Dizzie

The fact that nxt dropped drastically low despite usually having a certain baseline of loyal wwe fans tells ya how much the news took away from both products, without the news both shows would likely both do an extra 100k at the very least.


----------



## Klitschko

prosperwithdeen said:


> Darby is just so damn cool its hard not to be a fan of him unless you just hate little guys.


I hate little guys, and I'm a big fan of his hahaha.


----------



## Mister Sinister

The biggest thing to come out of Dynamite this week was Tai Conti's pussy.


----------



## The Wood

Why does Cult03 get banned? Is there a proper reason or do people just not like him telling the truth? He’s seriously an amazing poster. If there’s a proper reason, fine, but it sometimes seems like people get banned here because they are critical. That’s just silly.

Last week, NXT and AEW were basically at a stalemate. Reacting to one week where AEW wins is a bit dramatic. NXT has helped achieve exactly what the WWE wanted to achieve. AEW helped with that themselves. It’s all about protecting Raw and SmackDown as the golden geese.


----------



## Prosper

Mister Sinister said:


> The biggest thing to come out of Dynamite this week was Tai Conti's pussy.


Her pussy or her phat ass lol


----------



## bdon

Mister Sinister said:


> The biggest thing to come out of Dynamite this week was Tai Conti's pussy.


Photo or it didn’t happen.


----------



## The Wood

I genuinely thought that NXT would start beating AEW in the ratings when Scarlett showed up. Both companies have really dropped the ball when it comes to featuring sexy women.


----------



## Mister Sinister

bdon said:


> Photo or it didn’t happen.


Google it. Them lips came out. I don't want to earn my own ban today 😅


----------



## One Shed

Mister Sinister said:


> Google it. Them lips came out. I don't want to earn my own ban today 😅


If you posted it, I would say you should be promoted, not banned.


----------



## Klitschko

The Wood said:


> Why does Cult03 get banned? Is there a proper reason or do people just not like him telling the truth? He’s seriously an amazing poster. If there’s a proper reason, fine, but it sometimes seems like people get banned here because they are critical. That’s just silly.
> 
> Last week, NXT and AEW were basically at a stalemate. Reacting to one week where AEW wins is a bit dramatic. NXT has helped achieve exactly what the WWE wanted to achieve. AEW helped with that themselves. It’s all about protecting Raw and SmackDown as the golden geese.


He got in a fight with the mods and they are mad so they banned him it seems.



Mister Sinister said:


> Google it. Them lips came out. I don't want to earn my own ban today 😅


I tried. Found nothing.


----------



## The Wood

Two Sheds said:


> If you posted it, I would say you should be promoted, not banned.


Doctor Sinister.


----------



## One Shed

The Wood said:


> Doctor Sinister.


It was always weird to me that he called himself "Mr." in the comics considering he was an actual medical doctor and scientist.


----------



## Pippen94

Good rating - top 5 for non news at quick glance



http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Final-Cable-2021-Jan-13-WED.png



Wwe Wednesday basement dropping. Low key tracking Impact catching nxt demo at some stage. Impact did 0.08 few weeks ago


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Neither show getting decent viewership, just staying around the same mark as usual.


----------



## Brodus Clay

Trump getting the ratings, Vince should make him appear on WWE again xD


----------



## Mister Sinister

I made a mistake. Conti's slip happened in November. I didn't see the date and thought it was this week. It's still new to me, damn it!


----------



## NathanMayberry

“I’m not sure what this means, but for 2020, as far as gaining viewers on Wednesday, the No. 1 person, averaging 47,000 new viewers per segment, was Charlotte Flair, who was almost double Velveteen Dream and Rhea Ripley at No. 2 and No. 3. Ripley was the only wrestler who on Wednesday had every single segment she appeared on during the year do better than the segment prior. Jon Moxley was the lead in AEW with an average gain of 20,000 viewers. This is based on quarter hour total viewership and a lot of people who have been in the highest rated segments still averaged out to negative numbers including Orange Cassidy, The Young Bucks, Kenny Omega, Adam Page, MJF, Darby Allin and Eddie Kingston. That would likely be the same for the top stars on Raw who consistently appear in hour three. The flaw in this is measuring total viewers when 18-49 is the important number and total viewers in heavily influenced by those over the age of 50, particularly with NXT.”


Found this on reddit and surprised there wasn't any discussion on it.
-------
I'm not surprised to see Moxley at the top, even though his matches were predictable and his run was poorly booked. He was my favorite in the shield. I'm also not at all surprised to see Orange Cassidy, The Young Bucks, Kenny Omega and Darby Allin as negative drawers. If I had cable and didn't stream everything, I'd change the channel every time they came on too.


----------



## Pippen94

NathanMayberry said:


> “I’m not sure what this means, but for 2020, as far as gaining viewers on Wednesday, the No. 1 person, averaging 47,000 new viewers per segment, was Charlotte Flair, who was almost double Velveteen Dream and Rhea Ripley at No. 2 and No. 3. Ripley was the only wrestler who on Wednesday had every single segment she appeared on during the year do better than the segment prior. Jon Moxley was the lead in AEW with an average gain of 20,000 viewers. This is based on quarter hour total viewership and a lot of people who have been in the highest rated segments still averaged out to negative numbers including Orange Cassidy, The Young Bucks, Kenny Omega, Adam Page, MJF, Darby Allin and Eddie Kingston. That would likely be the same for the top stars on Raw who consistently appear in hour three. The flaw in this is measuring total viewers when 18-49 is the important number and total viewers in heavily influenced by those over the age of 50, particularly with NXT.”
> 
> 
> Found this on reddit and surprised there wasn't any discussion on it.
> -------
> I'm not surprised to see Moxley at the top, even though his matches were predictable and his run was poorly booked. He was my favorite in the shield. I'm also not at all surprised to see Orange Cassidy, The Young Bucks, Kenny Omega and Darby Allin as negative drawers. If I had cable and didn't stream everything, I'd change the channel every time they came on too.


If she featured in main events then that would include overruns which see a large number of aew viewers switch over. That stat could be a distortion


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1350052989944299521

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

AEW is starting to air in Africa next month under the TNT banner there. Not sure it'll make them any extra money of note, but it will help them gain fans in a new market.

They're also trying to get on TV in India, which would be huge for them as that's a big market that WWE has tapped into well.


----------



## thorn123

fabi1982 said:


> Thanks for the honest answer and actually what I expected and see in the reactions to most. It is good because its new, hope this keeps being the reason in 4 years, because you can only say "for the first time" so much. And I agree on the wrestling part, it is less stricted, subjectively arguable if this is better or not, but again thanks for your answer, this makes much sense.


Agreed the newness will wear off soon ... i guess this was the appeal of the territories back in the day ... new faces would regularly roll in and leave before they get stale


----------



## K4L318

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1350052989944299521
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


shit like dat makes me want to quit watching wrestling


----------



## sideon

Pippen94 said:


> If she featured in main events then that would include overruns which see a large number of aew viewers switch over. That stat could be a distortion


I don't buy that stat at all since NXT did some of their worst numbers when she was featured, never mind the fact that it was Sasha & Bayley that gave NXT their best number since their debut.


----------



## Pippen94

sideon said:


> I don't buy that stat at all since NXT did some of their worst numbers when she was featured, never mind the fact that it was Sasha & Bayley that gave NXT their best number since their debut.


Wwe usually does highest (or close to) peak on Wednesday night because a large number of aew fans switch over when dynamite finishes. 
Wrestlers appearing in main event get this boast attributed to them & if you appear almost exclusively in main event your numbers are going to look good









Record Number Of Fans Switch To WWE NXT After AEW Dynamite For Charlotte Flair Vs. Bianca Belair End - Wrestling Inc.


A large number of fans made the switch after AEW Dynamite on TNT to WWE NXT on the USA Network to catch the end of the Charlotte Flair vs. Bianca Belair main event last Wednesday night. The closing segment of the Revolution go-home edition of Dynamite, which was the Jon Moxley vs. Chris Jericho...




amp.wrestlinginc.com


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> AEW is starting to air in Africa next month under the TNT banner there. Not sure it'll make them any extra money of note, but it will help them gain fans in a new market.
> 
> They're also trying to get on TV in India, which would be huge for them as that's a big market that WWE has tapped into well.


do you have an article? Becuase i hope this doesn’t mess with my fite subscription

btw - ’africa’ is a massive market for wwe

it used to be the most watched shows on tv before it moved to pay cable / and even now, tna is drawing big on free tv, while wwe has a 24/7 channel on paid cable

its big big


----------



## Peerless

NathanMayberry said:


> “I’m not sure what this means, but for 2020, as far as gaining viewers on Wednesday, the No. 1 person, averaging 47,000 new viewers per segment, was Charlotte Flair, who was almost double Velveteen Dream and Rhea Ripley at No. 2 and No. 3. Ripley was the only wrestler who on Wednesday had every single segment she appeared on during the year do better than the segment prior. Jon Moxley was the lead in AEW with an average gain of 20,000 viewers. This is based on quarter hour total viewership and a lot of people who have been in the highest rated segments still averaged out to negative numbers including Orange Cassidy, The Young Bucks, Kenny Omega, Adam Page, MJF, Darby Allin and Eddie Kingston. That would likely be the same for the top stars on Raw who consistently appear in hour three. The flaw in this is measuring total viewers when 18-49 is the important number and total viewers in heavily influenced by those over the age of 50, particularly with NXT.”
> 
> 
> Found this on reddit and surprised there wasn't any discussion on it.
> -------
> I'm not surprised to see Moxley at the top, even though his matches were predictable and his run was poorly booked. He was my favorite in the shield. I'm also not at all surprised to see Orange Cassidy, The Young Bucks, Kenny Omega and Darby Allin as negative drawers. If I had cable and didn't stream everything, I'd change the channel every time they came on too.


Those numbers are kind of amusing because more than half of Moxley's segments in 2020 were 2 minute backstage promos in Q2 or Q7, which are the kind of segments that generally don't do well and naturally don't impact the quarters.

I think the best data would be minute to minute and then broken down into in-ring segments versus backstage segments. I believe that would give a greater representation of who actually moves numbers rather than quarter hours.


----------



## 3venflow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> do you have an article? Becuase i hope this doesn’t mess with my fite subscription
> 
> btw - ’africa’ is a massive market for wwe
> 
> it used to be the most watched shows on tv before it moved to pay cable / and even now, tna is drawing big on free tv, while wwe has a 24/7 channel on paid cable
> 
> its big big


Probably won't. ITV has AEW rights here in the UK, but we can still watch it live on FITE since ITV's coverage is delayed.









February 2021 On WarnerMedia Africa | AEW Dynamite | Straight Up | BGDCMC | M-MATM | New Seasons + More







prsdube16.blogspot.com


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Probably won't. ITV has AEW rights here in the UK, but we can still watch it live on FITE since ITV's coverage is delayed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> February 2021 On WarnerMedia Africa | AEW Dynamite | Straight Up | BGDCMC | M-MATM | New Seasons + More
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> prsdube16.blogspot.com


Nice one!

thanks mate!

Edit> and on DSTV even / broadcast in 50 African countries as the main and only form of cable

this’ll get some eyes on them from over here for sure


----------



## MoxleyMoxx




----------



## bdon

MoxleyMoxx said:


>


Ouch!


----------



## Klitschko

bdon said:


> Ouch!


Double ouch.

Wait a second. I could have sworn that Ozell kept saying that AEW declined in ratings when comparing 2020 to 2019 😮?


----------



## DammitChrist

3venflow said:


> Darby seems good for ratings. A reminder that him vs. Ricky Starks earlier this year did a 1m quarter hour.
> 
> Apparently, Kenny's segment did the highest quarter hour.
> 
> View attachment 95849



Woah, that’s weird.

I could’ve sworn that Kenny Omega was a ‘failure’ who’s incapable of drawing any wrestling fans at all :hmmm



The Wood said:


> Why does Cult03 get banned? Is there a proper reason or do people just not like him telling the truth? He’s seriously an amazing poster.


No, he wasn’t “amazing” at all  

In fact, he was actually an awful poster. I’d say GOOD riddance to him being gone for good :clap


----------



## .christopher.

K4L318 said:


> shit like dat makes me want to quit watching wrestling


You and millions of others.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1352364473206661121

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1352364898278379521

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Klitschko

Holy shit. Thats a great rating for AEW. Good job.


----------



## ProjectGargano

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1352364473206661121
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1352364898278379521
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Bad shows draw always good ratings.


----------



## Kentucky34

NXT closed the gap a bit this week. 

Neither are drawing that well though.


----------



## Prosper

Damn 854K overall with a .49 demo? Is that their best demo ever?

And for a "filler" episode on inauguration night? We really don't know shit after all do we?


----------



## bdon

Klitschko said:


> Holy shit. Thats a great rating for AEW. Good job.


Such a terrible night to have a great rating, and this is EXACTLY why you have to book your goddamn shows to the best of your ability NO MATTER WHAT.

Now they have once again got a few more eyes than normal and proceeded to fucking serve the audience bologna sandwiches for $10 a pop.


----------



## Shock Street

prosperwithdeen said:


> Damn 854K overall with a .49 demo? Is that their best demo ever?
> 
> And for a "filler" episode? We really don't know shit after all do we?


I think it's usually a week delay ratings wise. Bad show doesn't affect its own ratings as significantly as if affects the nexts... We'll see next week I guess


----------



## bdon

prosperwithdeen said:


> Damn 854K overall with a .49 demo? Is that their best demo ever?
> 
> And for a "filler" episode? We really don't know shit after all do we?


We know the rating will fall next week, which will be viewed as “unpredictable” by the AEW diehards, because they refuse to wrap their head around the notion of larger than normal audiences showing out to give it a chance and being served Tony Khan’s shittier version of Dynamite, because he wasn’t expecting a big rating anyways.


----------



## Kentucky34

prosperwithdeen said:


> Damn 854K overall with a .49 demo? Is that their best demo ever?
> 
> And for a "filler" episode? We really don't know shit after all do we?


A customer is a customer. So I ignore demo numbers. 

AEW needs to hit 1 million viewers before we can start talking about proper growth. Obviously this week neither show faced serious competition. That's why both are up. NXT more so than AEW.


----------



## Prosper

Looks like demo was a mistake. It was actually 0.36, which is still good. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1352367406983819265


----------



## 3venflow

I'm absolutely floored byt AEW's rating, I thought it could hit a record low with the card quality and inauguration. It's good news for the company.


----------



## Prosper

bdon said:


> We know the rating will fall next week, which will be viewed as “unpredictable” by the AEW diehards, because they refuse to wrap their head around the notion of larger than normal audiences showing out to give it a chance and being served Tony Khan’s shittier version of Dynamite, because he wasn’t expecting a big rating anyways.


I mean but averaging 854K with a .36 still means that they retained a good amount of viewers all night even through the Luther and Avalon fiasco.


----------



## izhack111

Next week it will drop again..


----------



## Kentucky34

3venflow said:


> I'm absolutely floored byt AEW's rating, I thought it could hit a record low with the card quality and inauguration. It's good news for the company.


It's because they didn't face serious competition. That's why NXT was also up.

We will probably view this as a missed opportunity in a few weeks time. AEW should have put on a good show to convince the extra viewers to stick around. Sadly they didn't deliver.


----------



## RainmakerV2

3venflow said:


> I'm absolutely floored byt AEW's rating, I thought it could hit a record low with the card quality and inauguration. It's good news for the company.


Why do people keep saying this? All the inauguration stuff was done by like 3 pm. Wtf?


----------



## Mr316

Demo was mistake. It was .39.


----------



## Pippen94

Big demo win again


----------



## Prosper

RainmakerV2 said:


> Why do people keep saying this? All the inauguration stuff was done by like 3 pm. Wtf?


Yeah but the fireworks, concerts, and additional planned speeches from celebs and the President were all at night. The swearing in was done at 3pm but it was an all day and most of the night event like it always is when a Prez is elected. The televised "celebration" is at night and that's what people love the most about it.


----------



## bdon

prosperwithdeen said:


> Yeah but the fireworks, concerts, and additional planned speeches from celebs and the President were all at night. The swearing in was done at 3pm but it was an all day and most of the night event like it always is when a Prez is elected. The televised "celebration" is at night and that's what people love the most about it.


People not understanding how big news is a 24 hour spectacle shows how out of touch most people are with the rest of the country.

And might I add anyone that doesn’t understand should we watch the 1976 film, Network.


----------



## 3venflow

RainmakerV2 said:


> Why do people keep saying this? All the inauguration stuff was done by like 3 pm. Wtf?


The celebration thing continued against Dynamite and aired on the main networks and multiple cable networks.


----------



## jordyjames26

Be amazed if they don't lose 100k next week off the back of that show. 

Sent from my SM-J810Y using Tapatalk


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Nice

thought they would be murdered by the inauguration


----------



## Joe Gill

just about every station showed the inauguration and other festivities... which means regular programming was cancelled.... meaning a lot of people who normally dont care about post inaguration activities had less options than normal for their television viewing. That helped Dynamite


----------



## bdon

jordyjames26 said:


> Be amazed if they don't lose 100k next week off the back of that show.
> 
> Sent from my SM-J810Y using Tapatalk


I’d almost guarantee it.


----------



## RainmakerV2

3venflow said:


> The celebration thing continued against Dynamite and aired on the main networks and multiple cable networks.
> 
> View attachment 96074



Well, not turning this into a political thread, but uh, Sleepy Joe aint gonna be half the "draw" Trump was. Trump was must see TV, hate him or love him. So no, im not surprised they werent masccared.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Ha ha it’s funny how whenever this forum hates a show, they end up doing better than expected. Shows this forum is only a small minority


----------



## bdon

RubberbandGoat said:


> Ha ha it’s funny how whenever this forum hates a show, they end up doing better than expected. Shows this forum is only a small minority


Guarantee they struggle to do 800k next week after putting on a shit card in front of a larger than normal audience.


----------



## El Hammerstone

It'll be down again next week, then up the week after that, and we'll still be talking about how these same numbers are great a year from now.


----------



## La Parka

The card was awful so I’m surprised anyone tuned in.

With that said this just proves many posters right. Showcasing a turd of a card should never happen. If the audience is one person, make it a good show. Putting Peter Avalion, Luther and a bunch of job guys because you think people won’t be watching is a good way to make sure people don’t come back.


----------



## Erik.

854k


----------



## Chan Hung

Shocked AEW did as good as they did to be honest.


----------



## bdon

La Parka said:


> The card was awful so I’m surprised anyone tuned in.
> 
> With that said this just proves many posters right. Showcasing a turd of a card should never happen. If the audience is one person, make it a good show. Putting Peter Avalion, Luther and a bunch of job guys because you think people won’t be watching is a good way to make sure people don’t come back.


Yep. You never know when Gordon Ramsay or the like is going to walk into your restaurant and have a chance to give you the best free advertisement you’ll ever receive via the word of mouth.

They mailed it in with this card, even if they did make a little effort to advance some stories. You must provide your best attempt on the daily.

Character is a big thing with me. The definition of that is: who are you when you think no one is looking. Someone is always looking. You want to keep your character squeaky clean, because you should want to know that no matter what, you did right.

They did a morally good thing for Brodie Jr, and that IS commendable. But they started their show off on a highly negative note for anyone just tuning into see “what’s going on that wrestling show I remember seeing commercials”, completely risks showing that one viewer the very worst side of you.

Who is AEW when no one is looking? Apparently it is a show that doesn’t care about entertaining its fans to the best of its abilities on a weekly basis.

Lots of people say AEW has a problem with establishing characterS. Mine is with its CHARACTER.


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> Yep. You never know when Gordon Ramsay or the like is going to walk into your restaurant and have a chance to give you the best free advertisement you’ll ever receive via the word of mouth.
> 
> They mailed it in with this card, even if they did make a little effort to advance some stories. You must provide your best attempt on the daily.
> 
> Character is a big thing with me. The definition of that is: who are you when you think no one is looking. Someone is always looking. You want to keep your character squeaky clean, because you should want to know that no matter what, you did right.
> 
> They did a morally good thing for Brodie Jr, and that IS commendable. But they started their show off on a highly negative note for anyone just tuning into see “what’s going on that wrestling show I remember seeing commercials”, completely risks showing that one viewer the very worst side of you.
> 
> Who is AEW when no one is looking? Apparently it is a show that doesn’t care about entertaining its fans to the best of its abilities on a weekly basis.
> 
> Lots of people say AEW has a problem with establishing characterS. Mine is with its CHARACTER.


Show was going up against new president being sworn in - last night was a down week before bigger shows to come. 
You've been singing the same song for awhile but by looks of ratings they've done a good job of retaining viewers.


----------



## ECFuckinW

So much for the ratings tanking because of a "throwaway show" lmfao looks like all you detractors were wrong again.


----------



## bdon

ECFuckinW said:


> So much for the ratings tanking because of a "throwaway show" lmfao looks like all you detractors were wrong again.


Except next week’s show, which will probably be good, won’t have many viewers, because they won’t be giving it a watch in back-to-back weeks over the stupid shit they saw this week.


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> Except next week’s show, which will probably be good, won’t have many viewers, because they won’t be giving it a watch in back-to-back weeks over the stupid shit they saw this week.


You've been pedaling the same crap for months by judiciously picking shows which follow mini ppv's & aren't stacked and predicting a ratings drop.
Last night's show that was without a feature bout went head to head with new president being sworn in & still got 0.36 in demo. 
Think the ship has sailed on that dumb argument


----------



## bdon

Pippen94 said:


> You've been pedaling the same crap for months by judiciously picking shows which follow mini ppv's & aren't stacked and predicting a ratings drop.
> Last night's show that was without a feature bout went head to head with new president being sworn in & still got 0.36 in demo.
> Think the ship has sailed on that dumb argument


Want to argue they struggle to get 800k next week?


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> Want to argue they struggle to get 800k next week?


Thanks for proving my point; you're predicting a ratings drop for show which isn't heavily promoted & will be followed the week after by beach break.
0.36 this week for nothing show indicates they haven't driven off fans as you say.
Maybe viewers aren't hung up on Cody as much as you?!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Want to argue they struggle to get 800k next week?


they'll get over 800k next week for sure

first time in weeks where there isn't something big happening elsewhere


----------



## A PG Attitude

bdon said:


> Want to argue they struggle to get 800k next week?


I'll take that bet... if they get over 800k viewers next week you cant post on here for 3 days.


----------



## The Wood

Hmm, it’s almost like the news doesn’t affect the ratings at all.


----------



## CRCC

So much time wasted trying to analyze week to week variations in ratings.

People really interested in ratings should be analyzing trends through months of programming, not this shallow weekly discussion.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

A PG Attitude said:


> I'll take that bet... if they get over 800k viewers next week you cant post on here for 3 days.


he won't take the bet mate

i bet him on something and he would've had to change his avatar and signature to Cody stuff - bro doesn't bite


----------



## thorn123

Nice viewership. Pity the show was a bit weaker than previous weeks.


----------



## bdon

DaveRA said:


> Nice viewership. Pity the show was a bit weaker than previous weeks.


Par for the course and why they shouldn’t ever just put together a throwaway card. Never know who is or will be watching.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> he won't take the bet mate
> 
> i bet him on something and he would've had to change his avatar and signature to Cody stuff - bro doesn't bite


Bets are fucking childish.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Unexpectedly high number! Not sure what to make of it other than what people mentioned about there being less non-political competition on this week. Nice to see though 🙌



CRCC said:


> So much time wasted trying to analyze week to week variations in ratings.
> 
> People really interested in ratings should be analyzing trends through months of programming, not this shallow weekly discussion.


👆 This is the truth of the matter. Year on year & month on month trends is what really counts. Each week has a number of variables which make a weekly analysis somewhere meaningless.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> they'll get over 800k next week for sure
> 
> first time in weeks where there isn't something big happening elsewhere


If they do above 800k, let’s hope they actually try and give those people the best show they can according to the stories being told and not just mail it in like they are wont to do.


----------



## Garty

Wow! What?!  I had figured there's no way that the ratings would be up, let alone the actual number that it did. I'm very surprised with this weeks numbers for both shows.

The Joe Biden Inaugural "extravaganza" carried on throughout the day/evening, with the celebration concert being "the thing" to watch that night, other than the Inauguration itself, earlier in the day. I thought, for sure, it would have killed anything else that was on TV. It aired on almost every news channel, national broadcaster, local station, international broadcaster and online web-services. However, if you look at the overall ratings of the main broadcast networks, it's pretty evenly spread, with an average of about 3.0 million for each network, across the 2-3 hour broadcast. Because there were so many viewing options, people just chose one of those options and stuck with it.

As of this writing, the national cable numbers have not been published (other than AEW and NXT's ratings), but it will be interesting to see where these two shows landed amongst the cable viewing audience of the Inauguration. However, if you apply logic to this, looking at the national numbers, the cable numbers should also be widespread. We'll see.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

DaveRA said:


> Nice viewership. Pity the show was a bit weaker than previous weeks.


Bit weaker? It was the worst Dynamite since 12/18/2019


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Bets are fucking childish.


not like there's a whole industry build on them - ironically for over 18s - so not childish at all then


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> not like there's a whole industry build on them - ironically for over 18s - so not childish at all then


Putting your earnings on the line for something you have no control over, literally a spin of the wheel or flip of the dice? Literally hoping something just goes your way? Yeah. That isn’t childish at all. Seems like a perfectly logical way of spending one’s money.

I know this has nothing to do wrestling, but I genuinely despise gambling. People obviously enjoy it, but I do not understand why. Control freaks like myself believe in meticulously covering all angles, dotting all I’d and crossing all T’s to ensure success.

As for the wrestling part, my mindset is also why I can not accept stupidly giving away a week of television or just letting a kid book your television show, because you didn’t expect a good rating anyways.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW ranked #33 in the top 50. I think only the NBA ranked above AEW for shows not covering the election. Look at the top 15+...


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Thats good


----------



## Prosper

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1352365835202011138


----------



## Mister Sinister

Celebrating 800k viewers and that it didn't cave to 600k. Pathetic.

I don't know if Eric Bischoff was talking about WWE or AEW or both on his recent podcast when talking about the Tyson/Austin program, but he was definitely inferring that the industry today is at a low point and needs to pay attention to the fans.


----------



## Garty

Mister Sinister said:


> Celebrating 800k viewers and that it didn't cave to 600k. Pathetic.
> 
> I don't know if Eric Bischoff was talking about WWE or AEW or both on his recent podcast when talking about the Tyson/Austin program, but he was definitely inferring that the industry today is at a low point and needs to pay attention to the fans.


Anyone who believes that there will be another Tyson/Austin genre-defining storyline such as that was, well, I have a spoiler for you... it's never going to happen.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

prosperwithdeen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1352365835202011138


...... i thought all the viewers left?

so what.... dvr is a thing now?!! Who knew????


----------



## Garty

bdon said:


> Except next week’s show, which will probably be good, won’t have many viewers, because they won’t be giving it a watch in back-to-back weeks over the stupid shit they saw this week.


C'mon bdon! Huh, you like it?! Fuck that "tell 'em bdon" shit... use this!

We all have biases towards a specific wrestler, promotion, match-type, promo, or storyline, but what you've considered "stupid shit" going into next weeks show, does evoke a biased view, even though we have no idea of how "good or bad" the show will be. Is there expectations? Of course, but if you set the bar so high for yourself, or ask that of the company, you're only going to be disappointed. Should-have, could-have, would-have is, by it's very definition, hindsight. You cannot change what has already happened.

"This, that and the other", is "stupid shit" to you, but to the next guy, that same, "this, that and the other", may not be the best thing ever, but not as woeful as some of you make it out to be. Not every show can be an A+ and not every show is going to be an D- Overall, AEW, in my opinion, is much more good, than bad. What I mean by that (again in my opinion), is the bad is going to be bad, so it's expected. However, they may surprise you one show and you think, hmm, you know what, it wasn't that bad. The good is always expected to be just that... good. However, having that belief going into the show could set you up for disappointment in the end. I just take things as they are, but that's just my opinion.


----------



## Prosper

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ...... i thought all the viewers left?
> 
> so what.... dvr is a thing now?!! Who knew????


Lol to me it just looks like all cable people can’t watch live every week, which is common sense. I don’t even watch live every week as a die hard. I don’t think they lost much of their audience at all. The 1.2 million they started with is still around. 

But if you have a steak dinner planned with a hottie or some friends on Wednesday night or if your daughter/wife won’t pass you the remote because their watching some bullshit then you’re just gonna DVR and watch later. Or you’re just gonna stream it illegally.


----------



## rbl85

Apparently NXT could move from wednesday because the NHL (and NASCAR) will be on the USA network and usually it's on wednesday's at 8pm.

It's not something that is going to happen real soon because NBC will shut down by the end of 2021.


----------



## Pippen94

rbl85 said:


> Apparently NXT could move from wednesday because the NHL (and NASCAR) will be on the USA network and usually it's on wednesday's at 8pm.
> 
> It's not something that is going to happen real soon because NBC will shut down by the end of 2021.


If there's more sport content maybe it'll return to network. Remember show's contract is up at that time


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Mister Sinister said:


> Celebrating 800k viewers and that it didn't cave to 600k. Pathetic.
> 
> I don't know if Eric Bischoff was talking about WWE or AEW or both on his recent podcast when talking about the Tyson/Austin program, but he was definitely inferring that the industry today is at a low point and needs to pay attention to the fans.


Came here to make an insignificant comment like that?

Did you see that lineup????no one here was expecting 800k for this show,it is in fact a good number I mean come the fuck on.Or are you one of those people comparing today's numbers to the 90s.......those numbers will NEVER return.


----------



## RapShepard

ECFuckinW said:


> So much for the ratings tanking because of a "throwaway show" lmfao looks like all you detractors were wrong again.


Well this is a lie, because it was the pro and neutral AEW fans predicting they'd go down because of the inauguration


----------



## $Dolladrew$

RapShepard said:


> Well this is a lie, because it was the pro and neutral AEW fans predicting they'd go down because of the inauguration


He's referring to the people literally saying this card would tank the ratings, not people saying it would be down due to the inauguration.


----------



## thorn123

TKO Wrestling said:


> Bit weaker? It was the worst Dynamite since 12/18/2019


I Can’t remember that far back ... I gave it 5.5/10 so it wasn’t great IMO.


----------



## bdon

Garty is All Elite said:


> C'mon bdon! Huh, you like it?! Fuck that "tell 'em bdon" shit... use this!
> 
> We all have biases towards a specific wrestler, promotion, match-type, promo, or storyline, but what you've considered "stupid shit" going into next weeks show, does evoke a biased view, even though we have no idea of how "good or bad" the show will be. Is there expectations? Of course, but if you set the bar so high for yourself, or ask that of the company, you're only going to be disappointed. Should-have, could-have, would-have is, by it's very definition, hindsight. You cannot change what has already happened.
> 
> "This, that and the other", is "stupid shit" to you, but to the next guy, that same, "this, that and the other", may not be the best thing ever, but not as woeful as some of you make it out to be. Not every show can be an A+ and not every show is going to be an D- Overall, AEW, in my opinion, is much more good, than bad. What I mean by that (again in my opinion), is the bad is going to be bad, so it's expected. However, they may surprise you one show and you think, hmm, you know what, it wasn't that bad. The good is always expected to be just that... good. However, having that belief going into the show could set you up for disappointment in the end. I just take things as they are, but that's just my opinion.


I have no expectations. My point was that this week’s episode had a rating on the higher side, yet it was a show that even the most ardent AEW fans have said it was just average. 

Ratings tend to be felt the following week. So, let’s pretend next week is when they had planned to put together a GREAT show knowing this week was Inauguration BS. Chances are highly likely that 50-100k of those 850K viewers will not likely be viewing next week due to the “egg on their face” they felt for watching a show that started with a Luther promo this week.

Make sense? I am an AEW fan. I watch every week, but I am not above critiquing, which they whole-heartedly deserve for putting together such a weak show _on the assumption _more people than normal would be watching the Inauguration.


----------



## bdon

$Dolladrew$ said:


> He's referring to the people literally saying this card would tank the ratings, not people saying it would be down due to the inauguration.


Ratings fluctuations tend to be felt the following week.


----------



## fabi1982

prosperwithdeen said:


> Lol to me it just looks like all cable people can’t watch live every week, which is common sense. I don’t even watch live every week as a die hard. I don’t think they lost much of their audience at all. The 1.2 million they started with is still around.
> 
> But if you have a steak dinner planned with a hottie or some friends on Wednesday night or if your daughter/wife won’t pass you the remote because their watching some bullshit then you’re just gonna DVR and watch later. Or you’re just gonna stream it illegally.


What was the +7 for the first two shows? Basically no additional viewers back then, but now around 50% are dvr-ing? Sounds off


----------



## $Dolladrew$

bdon said:


> Ratings fluctuations tend to be felt the following week.


Yeah but you specifically said this card would kill the ratings........you were wrong.Next week you will be wrong again......its normal I guess lol.


----------



## bdon

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Yeah but you specifically said this card would kill the ratings........you were wrong.Next week you will be wrong again......its normal I guess lol.


When we say “kill the ratings”, it means they will be affected...the following week. That’s how this all works. Go back and look at the ratings after Sting’s debut. People tuned into the show expecting something amazing, and what they got was a lot of BS not involving the main event guys. That show still nearly hit a million viewers. Yet the following week, a much more stacked episode, struggled mightily.

What? People didn’t want to watch a stacked show compared to the prior week? No. Irregular viewers showed up to see the follow-up to Sting’s debut and Omega running off with Callis, and they didn’t get much of anything, so they simply chose not to show up the following week for a better card.

I keep using this analogy, and it keeps going ignored: if your friends tell you about a restaurant serving the most tender, juicy cut of steak ever, and you break your routine to go try that restaurant for yourself and find they’re only serving bologna sandwiches that day, you’re going to be far less likely to return to that restaurant. No?

It’s the same in wrestling. When you give a great show, then you must EASE off the throttle the following week. You don’t have to do another banger, but you have to give a solid effort, not fill the card with the cast of characters not seen in a while by even the most diehard, watch-every-week viewers.

This week’s rating was up due to last week. Next week’s rating, while a likely very good show, will very likely see a downtrend. We here it in these threads so often how ratings are hard to predict, because the bad shows tend to do well and the good ones do poorly: that’s because they’re filling the afterburn effect of each show.


----------



## Dark Emperor

fabi1982 said:


> What was the +7 for the first two shows? Basically no additional viewers back then, but now around 50% are dvr-ing? Sounds off


Just Meltzer and AEW diehards manipulating numbers again. Why does he never give Raw or Smackdown DVR numbers.

Just like the demo, no one gave a damn about DVR numbers until Meltzer starts to use it as another way to put a positive spin-on AEW poor viewership numbers.

Averaging 800k is embarrassing for a company with so many big names and such high wage bill.


----------



## bdon

I


Dark Emperor said:


> Just Meltzer and AEW diehards manipulating numbers again. Why does he never give Raw or Smackdown DVR numbers.
> 
> Just like the demo, no one gave a damn about DVR numbers until Meltzer starts to use it as another way to put a positive spin-on AEW poor viewership numbers.
> 
> Averaging 800k is embarrassing for a company with so many big names and such high wage bill.


I suppose TNT has lied about the DVR numbers, I guess.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

bdon said:


> When we say “kill the ratings”, it means they will be affected...the following week. That’s how this all works. Go back and look at the ratings after Sting’s debut. People tuned into the show expecting something amazing, and what they got was a lot of BS not involving the main event guys. That show still nearly hit a million viewers. Yet the following week, a much more stacked episode, struggled mightily.
> 
> What? People didn’t want to watch a stacked show compared to the prior week? No. Irregular viewers showed up to see the follow-up to Sting’s debut and Omega running off with Callis, and they didn’t get much of anything, so they simply chose not to show up the following week for a better card.
> 
> I keep using this analogy, and it keeps going ignored: if your friends tell you about a restaurant serving the most tender, juicy cut of steak ever, and you break your routine to go try that restaurant for yourself and find they’re only serving bologna sandwiches that day, you’re going to be far less likely to return to that restaurant. No?
> 
> It’s the same in wrestling. When you give a great show, then you must EASE off the throttle the following week. You don’t have to do another banger, but you have to give a solid effort, not fill the card with the cast of characters not seen in a while by even the most diehard, watch-every-week viewers.
> 
> This week’s rating was up due to last week. Next week’s rating, while a likely very good show, will very likely see a downtrend. We here it in these threads so often how ratings are hard to predict, because the bad shows tend to do well and the good ones do poorly: that’s because they’re filling the afterburn effect of each show.


What will you come up with when this weeks show does over 800k?


----------



## bdon

$Dolladrew$ said:


> What will you come up with when this weeks show does over 800k?


What will you come up with when it falls..?


----------



## $Dolladrew$

bdon said:


> What will you come up with when it falls..?


I'll analyze the show and give my take on if it was good or not......I'm not the one pretending to know viewership trends,and making predictions about said vieweship.Do you still discord with the aussies.......?


----------



## bdon

$Dolladrew$ said:


> I'll analyze the show and give my take on if it was good or not......I'm not the one pretending to know viewership trends,and making predictions about said vieweship.Do you still discord with the aussies.......?


Yes.

Does that mean I will be banned now..?


----------



## Garty

bdon said:


> Yes.
> 
> Does that mean I will be banned now..?


*C'MON BDON!!!*

To answer your question... of course it does!


----------



## $Dolladrew$

bdon said:


> Yes.
> 
> Does that mean I will be banned now..?


No but definetly looked down upon 🤣


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ...... i thought all the viewers left?
> 
> so what.... dvr is a thing now?!! Who knew????


Irrelevant.



Garty is All Elite said:


> C'mon bdon! Huh, you like it?! Fuck that "tell 'em bdon" shit... use this!
> 
> We all have biases towards a specific wrestler, promotion, match-type, promo, or storyline, but what you've considered "stupid shit" going into next weeks show, does evoke a biased view, even though we have no idea of how "good or bad" the show will be. Is there expectations? Of course, but if you set the bar so high for yourself, or ask that of the company, you're only going to be disappointed. Should-have, could-have, would-have is, by it's very definition, hindsight. You cannot change what has already happened.
> 
> "This, that and the other", is "stupid shit" to you, but to the next guy, that same, "this, that and the other", may not be the best thing ever, but not as woeful as some of you make it out to be. Not every show can be an A+ and not every show is going to be an D- Overall, AEW, in my opinion, is much more good, than bad. What I mean by that (again in my opinion), is the bad is going to be bad, so it's expected. However, they may surprise you one show and you think, hmm, you know what, it wasn't that bad. The good is always expected to be just that... good. However, having that belief going into the show could set you up for disappointment in the end. I just take things as they are, but that's just my opinion.


What?



prosperwithdeen said:


> Lol to me it just looks like all cable people can’t watch live every week, which is common sense. I don’t even watch live every week as a die hard. I don’t think they lost much of their audience at all. The 1.2 million they started with is still around.
> 
> But if you have a steak dinner planned with a hottie or some friends on Wednesday night or if your daughter/wife won’t pass you the remote because their watching some bullshit then you’re just gonna DVR and watch later. Or you’re just gonna stream it illegally.


Irrelevant.

These shows are getting paid for their live content. The people watching in a time capsule matter as much as the alleged key demo.



$Dolladrew$ said:


> Came here to make an insignificant comment like that?
> 
> Did you see that lineup????no one here was expecting 800k for this show,it is in fact a good number I mean come the fuck on.Or are you one of those people comparing today's numbers to the 90s.......those numbers will NEVER return.


There was literally a broadcast watched by 10 million people on cable this week. If you have something worth watching, people will watch.

Why do AEW fanboys hate wrestling so much?



$Dolladrew$ said:


> He's referring to the people literally saying this card would tank the ratings, not people saying it would be down due to the inauguration.


Who said that?



bdon said:


> I have no expectations. My point was that this week’s episode had a rating on the higher side, yet it was a show that even the most ardent AEW fans have said it was just average.
> 
> Ratings tend to be felt the following week. So, let’s pretend next week is when they had planned to put together a GREAT show knowing this week was Inauguration BS. Chances are highly likely that 50-100k of those 850K viewers will not likely be viewing next week due to the “egg on their face” they felt for watching a show that started with a Luther promo this week.
> 
> Make sense? I am an AEW fan. I watch every week, but I am not above critiquing, which they whole-heartedly deserve for putting together such a weak show _on the assumption _more people than normal would be watching the Inauguration.


Excellent post. AEW listens to excuse-makers like Meltzer too much. They actually believe the BS narrative of the news having a giant impact.

_The people who watch cable news are not the same people who would normally be watching Dynamite._

They phoned in a show because they actually believe the Meltzer spin they’ve paid for, when anyone with some common fucking sense would have realised that there would be more foot traffic than usual on cable, and that it would have been smart to try and keep some momentum.



fabi1982 said:


> What was the +7 for the first two shows? Basically no additional viewers back then, but now around 50% are dvr-ing? Sounds off


This is one of those numbers that only comes up when it is useful for making AEW look good. It’s like how the “key demo” never comes up for Raw or SmackDown, because the “Titan is falling” story only works when you look at viewership.



$Dolladrew$ said:


> Yeah but you specifically said this card would kill the ratings........you were wrong.Next week you will be wrong again......its normal I guess lol.


bdon is saying that this show was watched by enough people and sucked in front of them enough that they won’t be back. Ratings aren’t instantaneous, lol.

It’s better to fall on your ass in private than on your wedding day. It’s amazing how many people don’t get this concept.



bdon said:


> When we say “kill the ratings”, it means they will be affected...the following week. That’s how this all works. Go back and look at the ratings after Sting’s debut. People tuned into the show expecting something amazing, and what they got was a lot of BS not involving the main event guys. That show still nearly hit a million viewers. Yet the following week, a much more stacked episode, struggled mightily.
> 
> What? People didn’t want to watch a stacked show compared to the prior week? No. Irregular viewers showed up to see the follow-up to Sting’s debut and Omega running off with Callis, and they didn’t get much of anything, so they simply chose not to show up the following week for a better card.
> 
> I keep using this analogy, and it keeps going ignored: if your friends tell you about a restaurant serving the most tender, juicy cut of steak ever, and you break your routine to go try that restaurant for yourself and find they’re only serving bologna sandwiches that day, you’re going to be far less likely to return to that restaurant. No?
> 
> It’s the same in wrestling. When you give a great show, then you must EASE off the throttle the following week. You don’t have to do another banger, but you have to give a solid effort, not fill the card with the cast of characters not seen in a while by even the most diehard, watch-every-week viewers.
> 
> This week’s rating was up due to last week. Next week’s rating, while a likely very good show, will very likely see a downtrend. We here it in these threads so often how ratings are hard to predict, because the bad shows tend to do well and the good ones do poorly: that’s because they’re filling the afterburn effect of each show.


Another great post.



$Dolladrew$ said:


> I'll analyze the show and give my take on if it was good or not......I'm not the one pretending to know viewership trends,and making predictions about said vieweship.Do you still discord with the aussies.......?


This post is bait and this is the ratings thread. We talk about the ratings in here.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

The Wood said:


> Irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> What?
> 
> 
> 
> Irrelevant.
> 
> These shows are getting paid for their live content. The people watching in a time capsule matter as much as the alleged key demo.
> 
> 
> 
> There was literally a broadcast watched by 10 million people on cable this week. If you have something worth watching, people will watch.
> 
> Why do AEW fanboys hate wrestling so much?
> 
> 
> 
> Who said that?
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent post. AEW listens to excuse-makers like Meltzer too much. They actually believe the BS narrative of the news having a giant impact.
> 
> _The people who watch cable news are not the same people who would normally be watching Dynamite._
> 
> They phoned in a show because they actually believe the Meltzer spin they’ve paid for, when anyone with some common fucking sense would have realised that there would be more foot traffic than usual on cable, and that it would have been smart to try and keep some momentum.
> 
> 
> 
> This is one of those numbers that only comes up when it is useful for making AEW look good. It’s like how the “key demo” never comes up for Raw or SmackDown, because the “Titan is falling” story only works when you look at viewership.
> 
> 
> 
> bdon is saying that this show was watched by enough people and sucked in front of them enough that they won’t be back. Ratings aren’t instantaneous, lol.
> 
> It’s better to fall on your ass in private than on your wedding day. It’s amazing how many people don’t get this concept.
> 
> 
> 
> Another great post.
> 
> 
> 
> This post is bait and this is the ratings thread. We talk about the ratings in here.


10 million non wrestling fans LMFAO.You are delusional when it comes to this topic,its absolutely hilarious.

You love wrestling that's for sure but your fandom has blinded you from reality. Wrestling is extremely niche vast majority of people don't want to watch soap operas with suplexes........frankly put there is better drama on tv and real fighting too.YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY NUTS if you think the 90s numbers will ever even come close again 🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Garty

Dark Emperor said:


> Just Meltzer and AEW diehards manipulating numbers again. Why does he never give Raw or Smackdown DVR numbers.
> 
> Just like the demo, no one gave a damn about DVR numbers until Meltzer starts to use it as another way to put a positive spin-on AEW poor viewership numbers.



Nielsen Data-Collecting Overhaul by 2024

*As a footnote to the Variety report:* _Established in September 2020, Nielsen releases a weekly list of top 10 television shows most watched on streaming platforms, or subscription video on demand (SVOD)._


----------



## The Wood

$Dolladrew$ said:


> 10 million non wrestling fans LMFAO.You are delusional when it comes to this topic,its absolutely hilarious.
> 
> You love wrestling that's for sure but your fandom has blinded you from reality. Wrestling is extremely niche vast majority of people don't want to watch soap operas with suplexes........frankly put there is better drama on tv and real fighting too.YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY NUTS if you think the 90s numbers will ever even come close again 🤣🤣🤣🤣


Of course they’re not wrestling fans (anymore). Wrestling sucks now. That’s why it’s niche. Instead of just saying that it’s niche, how about you put some thought into _why_ people don’t like “soap operas with suplexes”?

My point isn’t that these people were going to watch wrestling that night. My point is that there are still millions upon millions of Americans PAYING for cable television that could potentially watch wrestling if it were engaging. Which it is not. Because the industry itself now has a defeatist attitude and plays to that niche instead of to an actual general audience.


----------



## Garty

Ahh... and again Woody saves the day!? Your "brilliance of facts, numbers, trends, popularity" etc. never ceases to amaze me. You constantly use the same old stats, era vs year, this vs that and whatever else you can extrapolate from those dusty pages of your Wrestling TV History Encyclopedia.

As you've said yourself many times, TV viewing has changed, as will the way in which ratings/demos/advertising dollars/revenue, are calculated by 2024. You can either accept that or deny that, but that's all we've got. If Meltzer has been "inflating" AEW's numbers, where is your proof (something you always ask for), to validate that "fact"? Since he, Keller and Scherer are the only true "insiders" in the business with enough history, knowledge and reputation to report such things... maybe we all should just take it, as it is presented.

We're just a bunch of wrestling nerds on a discussion forum... what the hell do we know?!


----------



## The Wood

Garty is All Elite said:


> Ahh... and again Woody saves the day!? Your "brilliance of facts, numbers, trends, popularity" etc. never ceases to amaze me. You constantly use the same old stats, era vs year, this vs that and whatever else you can extrapolate from those dusty pages of your Wrestling TV History Encyclopedia.
> 
> As you've said yourself many times, TV viewing has changed, as will the way in which ratings/demos/advertising dollars/revenue, are calculated by 2024. You can either accept that or deny that, but that's all we've got. If Meltzer has been "inflating" AEW's numbers, where is your proof (something you always ask for), to validate that "fact"? Since he, Keller and Scherer are the only true "insiders" in the business with enough history, knowledge and reputation to report such things... maybe we all should just take it, as it is presented.
> 
> We're just a bunch of wrestling nerds on a discussion forum... what the hell do we know?!


You put a lot of words into people’s mouths and then have an argument with yourself.

Re: Meltzer: Why does he only emphasise the demo when it comes to AEW? SmackDown is usually #1 or shared #1 on Friday nights. Raw performs better in that field than AEW does in its. The story with Raw is always declining viewership.

When it comes to PPV, Meltzer deliberately conflates international buys with domestic buys and uses that number to compare it to domestic terrestrial PPV buyrates of a bygone era. That’s why you get lines like “AEW does better on PPV than anyone but the WWE since WCW,” which is blatantly false and misleading.

There’s your fucking proof.


----------



## Garty

The Wood said:


> Of course they’re not wrestling fans (anymore). Wrestling sucks now. That’s why it’s niche. Instead of just saying that it’s niche, how about you put some thought into _why_ people don’t like “soap operas with suplexes”?
> 
> My point isn’t that these people were going to watch wrestling that night. My point is that there are still millions upon millions of Americans PAYING for cable television that could potentially watch wrestling if it were engaging. Which it is not. *Because the industry itself now has a defeatist attitude and plays to that niche instead of to an actual general audience.*


Umm, no. That would be WWE. They cater to themselves and only themselves. WWE plays to its fanbase, which is becoming increasingly older, but somehow still interested in the product, given the stagnant ratings. They don't need to change. I'll use the NHL Toronto Maple Leafs, as an example:

They have not won a Stanley Cup since 1968. They are, by far, one of the most lucrative sports franchises in hockey and all of sport. Why? The fanbase will always be there, no matter what they put on the ice. After every season, it's more failed promises. Every year, you'll read the "We promise to do better next season..." and "Thanks for your dedication..." after they've been eliminated from the Playoffs. Fans are always skeptical of any promises the owners act upon, but once the season starts, all is forgiven. Sure, you'll have highs and lows, but it all doesn't matter. The fans will be there, year after year, loss after loss, win after win. Nothing in between matters.

That is why when WWE constantly reiterate in their quarterly earnings reports (printed and live Q&A with investors and media) that "we project that by...", "we're changing the way...", "those issues are being discussed...", "we believe that we have the building blocks in place for..." and then nothing changes, or gets even worse. Yet, they'll still have that core fanbase who will keep watching each and every show, each and every week. Enter AEW.

AEW has, both, every chance to gain and every chance to lose. All bias aside, one has to admit... they're new, they're different, they're younger, they're "cool", they're fresh, they're forward thinking and for right now, they're heading in the direction that they need to survive (growing and/or at least sustaining), resonating with the 18-49 demographic, the most coveted demographic in TV advertising, both male and female. For a start-up, in a business dominated by WWE for over 20 years now, AEW has more than held their own. They've had more success than failure, so it means that they're learning from those missteps/mistakes made and changing the product for the better... again all bias aside.

Have AEW "lost half their audience since it began"? Factually, yes of course, but if you want to play that game, in WWE's heyday, they were averaging 6 million+ viewers per-week. Fast forward to 2020 (2021) and they've retained (give-or-take) less than a quarter of that audience. Some, double-digit, year-over-year declines. So, why then are they still so successful? Name recognition, brand loyalty and big TV contracts. Just like the Toronto Maple Leafs in the NHL.

WWE, for now, can rest on those laurels, but when they get closer to having to renegotiate those big TV contracts, things had better be heading in the other direction, than the direction they're going in currently.


----------



## Garty

The Wood said:


> You put a lot of words into people’s mouths and then have an argument with yourself.
> 
> Re: Meltzer: Why does he only emphasise the demo when it comes to AEW? SmackDown is usually #1 or shared #1 on Friday nights. Raw performs better in that field than AEW does in its. The story with Raw is always declining viewership.
> 
> When it comes to PPV, Meltzer deliberately conflates international buys with domestic buys and uses that number to compare it to domestic terrestrial PPV buyrates of a bygone era. That’s why you get lines like “AEW does better on PPV than anyone but the WWE since WCW,” which is blatantly false and misleading.
> 
> There’s your fucking proof.


 and you know what, UFC outsells any wrestling PPV's combined, usually on a monthly basis (depending on the card). Whether it's international, or domestic, it's still AEW, it's still WWE and it's still UFC. Regardless of where it comes from, revenue is still revenue that affects your bottom-line.

SmackDown may be #1 in the sports category on all of TV (broadcast or cable), but is usually at the bottom of the entire broadcast network primetime programming. As a result, Fox itself, is usually at the bottom of the network statistics on Friday nights.

You and I don't get to cherry-pick what stats are, or are not, relevant to one's argument. WWE should be taken on it's own merits, just as AEW should be taken on their own merits as well. One company's audience has consistently declined for 20 years, while the other company, for now, has sustained and/or grown its audience, in only a year and a half. There is much more upside to AEW, than there is within WWE.


----------



## Pippen94

Garty is All Elite said:


> and you know what, UFC outsells any wrestling PPV's combined, usually on a monthly basis (depending on the card). Whether it's international, or domestic, it's still AEW, it's still WWE and it's still UFC. Regardless of where it comes from, revenue is still revenue that affects your bottom-line.
> 
> SmackDown may be #1 in the sports category on all of TV (broadcast or cable), but is usually at the bottom of the entire broadcast network primetime programming. As a result, Fox itself, is usually at the bottom of the network statistics on Friday nights.
> 
> You and I don't get to cherry-pick what stats are, or are not, relevant to one's argument. WWE should be taken on it's own merits, just as AEW should be taken on their own merits as well. One company's audience has consistently declined for 20 years, while the other company, for now, has sustained and/or grown its audience, in only a year and a half. There is much more upside to AEW, than there is within WWE.


I stopped arguing with that guy a long time ago; never backs his arguments with stats & most of his theories seem to have no basis. Fact he continues to argue stuff like news has no impact on other TV shows despite all evidence pointing otherwise shows he's not here to have intelligent discussion.


----------



## Garty

Pippen94 said:


> I stopped arguing with that guy a long time ago; never backs his arguments with stats & most of his theories seem to have no basis. Fact he continues to argue stuff like news has no impact on other TV shows despite all evidence pointing otherwise shows he's not here to have intelligent discussion.




He's the only hope "they" have left.


----------



## The Wood

Garty is All Elite said:


> Umm, no. That would be WWE. They cater to themselves and only themselves. WWE plays to its fanbase, which is becoming increasingly older, but somehow still interested in the product, given the stagnant ratings. They don't need to change. I'll use the NHL Toronto Maple Leafs, as an example:
> 
> They have not won a Stanley Cup since 1968. They are, by far, one of the most lucrative sports franchises in hockey and all of sport. Why? The fanbase will always be there, no matter what they put on the ice. After every season, it's more failed promises. Every year, you'll read the "We promise to do better next season..." and "Thanks for your dedication..." after they've been eliminated from the Playoffs. Fans are always skeptical of any promises the owners act upon, but once the season starts, all is forgiven. Sure, you'll have highs and lows, but it all doesn't matter. The fans will be there, year after year, loss after loss, win after win. Nothing in between matters.
> 
> That is why when WWE constantly reiterate in their quarterly earnings reports (printed and live Q&A with investors and media) that "we project that by...", "we're changing the way...", "those issues are being discussed...", "we believe that we have the building blocks in place for..." and then nothing changes, or gets even worse. Yet, they'll still have that core fanbase who will keep watching each and every show, each and every week. Enter AEW.
> 
> AEW has, both, every chance to gain and every chance to lose. All bias aside, one has to admit... they're new, they're different, they're younger, they're "cool", they're fresh, they're forward thinking and for right now, they're heading in the direction that they need to survive (growing and/or at least sustaining), resonating with the 18-49 demographic, the most coveted demographic in TV advertising, both male and female. For a start-up, in a business dominated by WWE for over 20 years now, AEW has more than held their own. They've had more success than failure, so it means that they're learning from those missteps/mistakes made and changing the product for the better... again all bias aside.
> 
> Have AEW "lost half their audience since it began"? Factually, yes of course, but if you want to play that game, in WWE's heyday, they were averaging 6 million+ viewers per-week. Fast forward to 2020 (2021) and they've retained (give-or-take) less than a quarter of that audience. Some, double-digit, year-over-year declines. So, why then are they still so successful? Name recognition, brand loyalty and big TV contracts. Just like the Toronto Maple Leafs in the NHL.
> 
> WWE, for now, can rest on those laurels, but when they get closer to having to renegotiate those big TV contracts, things had better be heading in the other direction, than the direction they're going in currently.


What are you even talking about?

It’s not an objective fact that AEW is cool and different. A lot of its criticisms is that it is more of the same. Where is this evidence that it is cool? They have a smaller “key demo” than Raw. That’s just an internet fan myth. 




Garty is All Elite said:


> and you know what, UFC outsells any wrestling PPV's combined, usually on a monthly basis (depending on the card). Whether it's international, or domestic, it's still AEW, it's still WWE and it's still UFC. Regardless of where it comes from, revenue is still revenue that affects your bottom-line.
> 
> SmackDown may be #1 in the sports category on all of TV (broadcast or cable), but is usually at the bottom of the entire broadcast network primetime programming. As a result, Fox itself, is usually at the bottom of the network statistics on Friday nights.
> 
> You and I don't get to cherry-pick what stats are, or are not, relevant to one's argument. WWE should be taken on it's own merits, just as AEW should be taken on their own merits as well. One company's audience has consistently declined for 20 years, while the other company, for now, has sustained and/or grown its audience, in only a year and a half. There is much more upside to AEW, than there is within WWE.


You say we can’t cherry-pick the stats and then proceed to cherry-pick the stats. What stats is SmackDown “down the bottom” of? Viewership. Not that apparent key demo that gets ignored because it makes the WWE look good because they’re #1 in that metric most weeks.

They rate highly on social media too. But let’s ignore how that presence dwarves AEW, because that doesn’t fit the narrative.

I don’t know what your point about PPV even is. Cool? You asked me to “prove” Meltzer lies about the numbers, and I provided two very clear examples. The change in emphasis between viewership and “key demo” when it suits AEW, and conflating international and domestic PPV buys to enhance the image of AEW. 



Pippen94 said:


> I stopped arguing with that guy a long time ago; never backs his arguments with stats & most of his theories seem to have no basis. Fact he continues to argue stuff like news has no impact on other TV shows despite all evidence pointing otherwise shows he's not here to have intelligent discussion.


We live in a 24-hour news cycle and really have for over 20 years now. The idea that people have to stop what they are doing to watch the news at a specific time and abandon their viewing habits is archaic.

Almost no one is sitting at home and thinking “Oh man, I really want to watch wrestling right now but I really have to watch the news RIGHT NOW instead of later or checking my phone during the break.” That’s why you have the same 1.3-1.5 million people watching wrestling every week between AEW and NXT. It’s. Every. Fucking. Week. Rain, sleet or shine.

People just can’t wrap their heads around the idea that the people who use their cable subscription to watch the news when something big happens just weren’t watching wrestling. When you get shows that get 10 million viewers or whatever, that’s a cable audience that wasn’t already there.


----------



## Aedubya

Melter hinting that NXT might have to move nights due to their channel closing.....in October


----------



## DaSlacker

bdon said:


> Putting your earnings on the line for something you have no control over, literally a spin of the wheel or flip of the dice? Literally hoping something just goes your way? Yeah. That isn’t childish at all. Seems like a perfectly logical way of spending one’s money.
> 
> I know this has nothing to do wrestling, but I genuinely despise gambling. People obviously enjoy it, but I do not understand why. Control freaks like myself believe in meticulously covering all angles, dotting all I’d and crossing all T’s to ensure success.
> 
> As for the wrestling part, my mindset is also why I can not accept stupidly giving away a week of television or just letting a kid book your television show, because you didn’t expect a good rating anyways.


Adrenaline rush. Being methodical and planning thoroughly is a great thing. But in life it's never possible to plan properly. There's always that element of chance - good and bad. You change careers or take a job in a start up in an industry that booms within a few years. You take the wrong road and through no fault of your own an idiot drives into you. Being too meticulous can slow you down to the point of being counter productive. 

Video games are great fun but it really doesn't matter in the end because it has no real impact on your life. Sport is a good for excercise but unless you're good (you'd know at a young age) it's just a hobby between a group of friends. Become emotionally invested in a TV show - it's all academic. Gambling can change your life in that you gain more control or can fuck it up completely.


----------



## DaSlacker

The Wood said:


> What are you even talking about?
> 
> It’s not an objective fact that AEW is cool and different. A lot of its criticisms is that it is more of the same. Where is this evidence that it is cool? They have a smaller “key demo” than Raw. That’s just an internet fan myth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You say we can’t cherry-pick the stats and then proceed to cherry-pick the stats. What stats is SmackDown “down the bottom” of? Viewership. Not that apparent key demo that gets ignored because it makes the WWE look good because they’re #1 in that metric most weeks.
> 
> They rate highly on social media too. But let’s ignore how that presence dwarves AEW, because that doesn’t fit the narrative.
> 
> I don’t know what your point about PPV even is. Cool? You asked me to “prove” Meltzer lies about the numbers, and I provided two very clear examples. The change in emphasis between viewership and “key demo” when it suits AEW, and conflating international and domestic PPV buys to enhance the image of AEW.
> 
> 
> 
> We live in a 24-hour news cycle and really have for over 20 years now. The idea that people have to stop what they are doing to watch the news at a specific time and abandon their viewing habits is archaic.
> 
> Almost no one is sitting at home and thinking “Oh man, I really want to watch wrestling right now but I really have to watch the news RIGHT NOW instead of later or checking my phone during the break.” That’s why you have the same 1.3-1.5 million people watching wrestling every week between AEW and NXT. It’s. Every. Fucking. Week. Rain, sleet or shine.
> 
> People just can’t wrap their heads around the idea that the people who use their cable subscription to watch the news when something big happens just weren’t watching wrestling. When you get shows that get 10 million viewers or whatever, that’s a cable audience that wasn’t already there.


Not that I disagree with what your saying for the most part. Apart from the news argument. US news since 2015 has been far from the way it is normally. That's to say, dry. It's kinda been like Attitude Era in its breaking the status quo surrealism! Orchestrated by the maverick, politically incorrect Donald Trump and filled with characters like Hannity, Carlson, Lemmon, Cuomo etc. Politics and current affairs became more entertaining than wrestling and was actually happening, for real.

Trump said something controversial, it's debated by both sides, then something more outlandish happens. Meanwhile there's all the shit with Iran, North Korea, the murky world surrounding the Trump administration, Weinstein and Cosby, Epstein, Qanon, impeachment, the pandemic. Pro wrestling in its current form can't compete with that.


----------



## The Wood

DaSlacker said:


> Not that I disagree with what your saying for the most part. Apart from the news argument. US news since 2015 has been far from the way it is normally. That's to say, dry. It's kinda been like Attitude Era in its breaking the status quo surrealism! Orchestrated by the maverick, politically incorrect Donald Trump and filled with characters like Hannity, Carlson, Lemmon, Cuomo etc. Politics and current affairs became more entertaining than wrestling and was actually happening, for real.
> 
> Trump said something controversial, it's debated by both sides, then something more outlandish happens. Meanwhile there's all the shit with Iran, North Korea, the murky world surrounding the Trump administration, Weinstein and Cosby, Epstein, Qanon, impeachment, the pandemic. Pro wrestling in its current form can't compete with that.


Don’t disagree with this at all. By the way, you’re a great poster. Love your takes. But you’re right. Hell, I’ll go as far as to say that the news is better pro-wrestling than wrestling.

But my point is just that while it can be priority viewing for people now — what with the personalities and such it has — it doesn’t inherently take from the same pool as pro-wrestling. The people who like Hannity will watch Hannity for Hannity. They’re not sitting around saying “Oh shucks, I’ve got to choose right now.” When a major news story happens, people can plug in with flexibility.

I don’t normally bring up Bryan Alvarez, specifically, but I will because he’s ripe for this: He’s a guy who says the news hurts wrestling. And AEW believed that, and this week they did a phoned-in show when they actually had some decent foot traffic, and that could hurt them, because a lot of people saw that phoned-in show. Mainly their usual audience who thought “Man, this week sucked.” They didn’t have to do that. Which is bdon’s point.

Smarks are the new marks, and they totally believed they were going to get low ratings because of the news. And that is evidently silly.


----------



## Garty

The Wood said:


> What are you even talking about?
> 
> It’s not an objective fact that AEW is cool and different. A lot of its criticisms is that it is more of the same. Where is this evidence that it is cool? They have a smaller “key demo” than Raw. That’s just an internet fan myth.


Why is it Woody, that any user who does reply, counter-point, or provide "proof/evidence" to your "facts", they're dismissed right away with the words out of your mouth... "what are you (insert insult here)" Then, it's either a few words in a sentence, or a 5000 word diatribe.

So, let me get this straight... your argument is, that in your opinion, AEW is not cool. My opinion, is that AEW is cool. You can say, no it's not, but I can't say yes it is? I did say to put all bias aside, when looking at the overall picture of AEW's short history. Those examples are a small part of what makes AEW, AEW and not WWE. Of course, you can argue that point the other way, but I said, put your bias aside. Which means, look at the words I used to describe the opinions of AEW fans. Now, compare those with WWE (because it's their only real competition) and then hatch-up your own descriptions.

And why does AEW have a smaller key demo than Raw? Is that bait, or is that serious? Raw has what... an average of 1.6 million viewers a week? AEW does around half that number most weeks? What is the likelihood that with more viewers of all age groups, the bigger all demos are?! About 100%. These myths and fairytales you're always discarding, are no different than how you form your own opinions with said information.



The Wood said:


> You say we can’t cherry-pick the stats and then proceed to cherry-pick the stats. What stats is SmackDown “down the bottom” of? Viewership. Not that apparent key demo that gets ignored because it makes the WWE look good because they’re #1 in that metric most weeks.
> 
> They rate highly on social media too. But let’s ignore how that presence dwarves AEW, because that doesn’t fit the narrative.
> 
> I don’t know what your point about PPV even is. Cool? You asked me to “prove” Meltzer lies about the numbers, and I provided two very clear examples. The change in emphasis between viewership and “key demo” when it suits AEW, and conflating international and domestic PPV buys to enhance the image of AEW.


Still using social-media as a barometer, huh? "NBA fans are lolzing because Chris Jericho is fat... tee-hee rofl rofl". If that's one of the "facts" of your opinion, you're just as petty as they are.

As far as the Meltzer comments go, which one of those three aforementioned writers, present a different set of ratings analysis than the other, based upon the exact same information all three of them receive? Do the numbers seek out a positive or a negative course? Yes, of course they do because that's what the data provides... but we're reading the very same material as they do!? None of us here are analysis experts, so we shouldn't speak as though we are.

 Cherry-pick?! You brought up the "inflating numbers" point earlier in this thread. I chose to respond to that. Below, is an eight week span, of overnight Network ratings, for the 4 main-broadcast entities. Dates are noted in the graphic:

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Fast-Demo-2021-Jan-22-FRI.png

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Final-Bcast-2021-Jan-15-FRI.png

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Final-Bcast-2021-Jan-08-FRI.png

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Final-Bcast-2021-Jan-01-FRI.png

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Final-Bcast-2020-Dec-25-FRI.png

December 18th 2020... SmackDown was pre-empted on Fox, moved to Fox Sports 1, averaged 1 million

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Final-Bcast-2020-Dec-11-FRI-1.png

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Final-Bcast-2020-Dec-04-FRI.png

 *EDIT: I DON'T KNOW WHY THE ABOVE ARE NOT VISIBLE... OOPS!!! *


----------



## Klitschko

Garty is All Elite said:


> Why is it Woody, that any user who does reply, counter-point, or provide "proof/evidence" to your "facts", they're dismissed right away with the words out of your mouth... "what are you (insert insult here)" Then, it's either a few words in a sentence, or a 5000 word diatribe.


I think that i am more on the fanboy side and feel that you make some good points, and actually agree with a lot of what you say, but you shouldn't make fun of @The Wood here. If he makes a 5000 word essay then you make a 10 000 word essay each time you post. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that skips over your posts because they are so fucking long, and its like that every single time. Get to the fucking point already man.

Also, stop baiting people all the time. It feels like since Chip got banned you stopped being scared and started to post again, and every other post you make is you baiting "haters", especially @The Wood.


----------



## DaSlacker

The Wood said:


> Don’t disagree with this at all. By the way, you’re a great poster. Love your takes. But you’re right. Hell, I’ll go as far as to say that the news is better pro-wrestling than wrestling.
> 
> But my point is just that while it can be priority viewing for people now — what with the personalities and such it has — it doesn’t inherently take from the same pool as pro-wrestling. The people who like Hannity will watch Hannity for Hannity. They’re not sitting around saying “Oh shucks, I’ve got to choose right now.” When a major news story happens, people can plug in with flexibility.
> 
> I don’t normally bring up Bryan Alvarez, specifically, but I will because he’s ripe for this: He’s a guy who says the news hurts wrestling. And AEW believed that, and this week they did a phoned-in show when they actually had some decent foot traffic, and that could hurt them, because a lot of people saw that phoned-in show. Mainly their usual audience who thought “Man, this week sucked.” They didn’t have to do that. Which is bdon’s point.
> 
> Smarks are the new marks, and they totally believed they were going to get low ratings because of the news. And that is evidently silly.


Thanks man. You're always a good read too and unfairly criticised on here. AEW certainly needs proper critique because they're a clusterfuck at best. 

Alvarez is talking BS. I'd let them off for any debate clashes and the Storm of the Capitol was Fall of the Berlin Wall level historic in terms of future symbolism. But 99% of the rest of the time those 650,000 hardcores and 250,000 floaters are there for the taking. 

Didn't see much of the show so not primed to talk accurately. But I'm not sure if it was Khan phoning it in out of belief the rating would be bad or simply running with a purposely subdued card as a kind of organic breather - for product and fans - between all these specials. On paper, The Inner Circle 3 way is a big match. The Miro/Taylor segment, long match with Avalon and pulling the trigger on the PP heel turn during a throwaway match could just be Tony being Tony. Namely the cosplay Monday Night Wars/early Nitro booker.


----------



## The Wood

Garty is All Elite said:


> Why is it Woody, that any user who does reply, counter-point, or provide "proof/evidence" to your "facts", they're dismissed right away with the words out of your mouth... "what are you (insert insult here)" Then, it's either a few words in a sentence, or a 5000 word diatribe.
> 
> So, let me get this straight... your argument is, that in your opinion, AEW is not cool. My opinion, is that AEW is cool. You can say, no it's not, but I can't say yes it is? I did say to put all bias aside, when looking at the overall picture of AEW's short history. Those examples are a small part of what makes AEW, AEW and not WWE. Of course, you can argue that point the other way, but I said, put your bias aside. Which means, look at the words I used to describe the opinions of AEW fans. Now, compare those with WWE (because it's their only real competition) and then hatch-up your own descriptions.
> 
> And why does AEW have a smaller key demo than Raw? Is that bait, or is that serious? Raw has what... an average of 1.6 million viewers a week? AEW does around half that number most weeks? What is the likelihood that with more viewers of all age groups, the bigger all demos are?! About 100%. These myths and fairytales you're always discarding, are no different than how you form your own opinions with said information.
> 
> 
> 
> Still using social-media as a barometer, huh? "NBA fans are lolzing because Chris Jericho is fat... tee-hee rofl rofl". If that's one of the "facts" of your opinion, you're just as petty as they are.
> 
> As far as the Meltzer comments go, which one of those three aforementioned writers, present a different set of ratings analysis than the other, based upon the exact same information all three of them receive? Do the numbers seek out a positive or a negative course? Yes, of course they do because that's what the data provides... but we're reading the very same material as they do!? None of us here are analysis experts, so we shouldn't speak as though we are.
> 
> Cherry-pick?! You brought up the "inflating numbers" point earlier in this thread. I chose to respond to that. Below, is an eight week span, of overnight Network ratings, for the 4 main-broadcast entities. Dates are noted in the graphic:
> 
> http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Fast-Demo-2021-Jan-22-FRI.png
> 
> http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Final-Bcast-2021-Jan-15-FRI.png
> 
> http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Final-Bcast-2021-Jan-08-FRI.png
> 
> http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Final-Bcast-2021-Jan-01-FRI.png
> 
> http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Final-Bcast-2020-Dec-25-FRI.png
> 
> December 18th 2020... SmackDown was pre-empted on Fox, moved to Fox Sports 1, averaged 1 million
> 
> http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Final-Bcast-2020-Dec-11-FRI-1.png
> 
> http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Final-Bcast-2020-Dec-04-FRI.png
> 
> *EDIT: I DON'T KNOW WHY THE ABOVE ARE NOT VISIBLE... OOPS!!! *


I’m going to ignore the passive aggressive baiting tone and try to make sense and make this succinct:

If something is “cool” it is popular. The numbers for AEW are what they are. That’s just the way it is. You can’t tell me that AEW is cooler than Raw when it is just less popular. It doesn’t make any sense. You can like it, and that is what it is, but that doesn’t make it “cool.” If it were cool, it would be doing better numbers than something that is uncool, right?

I honestly get lost through the rest of your arguements. I’m just going to go back to my actual point: When the narrative is that the WWE is tanking, it’s a focus on viewership. When it comes down to talking up AEW, the focus is on the demo. That’s cherry-picking writ-large.



DaSlacker said:


> Thanks man. You're always a good read too and unfairly criticised on here. AEW certainly needs proper critique because they're a clusterfuck at best.
> 
> Alvarez is talking BS. I'd let them off for any debate clashes and the Storm of the Capitol was Fall of the Berlin Wall level historic in terms of future symbolism. But 99% of the rest of the time those 650,000 hardcores and 250,000 floaters are there for the taking.
> 
> Didn't see much of the show so not primed to talk accurately. But I'm not sure if it was Khan phoning it in out of belief the rating would be bad or simply running with a purposely subdued card as a kind of organic breather - for product and fans - between all these specials. On paper, The Inner Circle 3 way is a big match. The Miro/Taylor segment, long match with Avalon and pulling the trigger on the PP heel turn during a throwaway match could just be Tony being Tony. Namely the cosplay Monday Night Wars/early Nitro booker.


Your point about an organic breather makes sense. I tend to believe that it was then anticipating a lower rated show, but that could just be my bias.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

The Wood said:


> Of course they’re not wrestling fans (anymore). Wrestling sucks now. That’s why it’s niche. Instead of just saying that it’s niche, how about you put some thought into _why_ people don’t like “soap operas with suplexes”?
> 
> My point isn’t that these people were going to watch wrestling that night. My point is that there are still millions upon millions of Americans PAYING for cable television that could potentially watch wrestling if it were engaging. Which it is not. Because the industry itself now has a defeatist attitude and plays to that niche instead of to an actual general audience.


I've had this discussion with you multiple times but hey let's go again.....

kayfabe is dead meaning casuals thinking it was real dont exist anymore, combat sports like boxing and mma fill the void for real fighting and the multitudes of shows not only on cable but streaming services as well have better acting and drama.

Since the WWF admitted the business was fake to avoid taxes and dealing with commissions it lost not only fans but prominence in the mind of the general audience.Wrestling is not seen as a big deal at all by casual audience as like I've said its soap operas with suplexes or has a very niche audience.


If you think simply putting on a "realistic " style of wrestling would bring back millions of viewers you're just hoping on a prayer.The reality is the perception of wrestling is it's for children and fake fighting.

I don't care what product it is your not getting 10 million people to watch it unless Kim Kardashian and justin bieber are in the main event and the undercard is youtube stars lol.

Again sorry bro but you're delusionsl


DaSlacker said:


> Adrenaline rush. Being methodical and planning thoroughly is a great thing. But in life it's never possible to plan properly. There's always that element of chance - good and bad. You change careers or take a job in a start up in an industry that booms within a few years. You take the wrong road and through no fault of your own an idiot drives into you. Being too meticulous can slow you down to the point of being counter productive.
> 
> Video games are great fun but it really doesn't matter in the end because it has no real impact on your life. Sport is a good for excercise but unless you're good (you'd know at a young age) it's just a hobby between a group of friends. Become emotionally invested in a TV show - it's all academic. Gambling can change your life in that you gain more control or can fuck it up completely.


Also just because you bet doesn't mean your outting your life savings on the line everytime lol,like how dumb would you be?


----------



## Garty

Klitschko said:


> I think that i am more on the fanboy side and feel that you make some good points, and actually agree with a lot of what you say, but you shouldn't make fun of @The Wood here. If he makes a 5000 word essay then you make a 10 000 word essay each time you post. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that skips over your posts because they are so fucking long, and its like that every single time. Get to the fucking point already man.
> 
> Also, stop baiting people all the time. It feels like since Chip got banned you stopped being scared and started to post again, and every other post you make is you baiting "haters", especially @The Wood.


First off  and you do have every right to skip some of my longer posts, just as much as reading them. Trust me, I've been egged by a few users for my overly long replies, but either way, it's 

Woody has been and always will be, King-of-Words. We're "old-pals" at this sort of thing, going back and forth, etc. I used to write when I was much younger and in doing so, a writer always has the mentality of painting a scene, paying attention to every little detail, so that the reader has enough set-up observations to visualize the (yes) long-winded point/scenario. It's a fault you cannot grow out of. That's why there are Editors to go over this stuff. 

Baiting/trolling/disruption/negativity have always been my issues with this forum and of course, the Angry Aussies. Wood is at another level than the others. We usually never agree on anything, but I don't hate the guy. Sure, I may have psycho-analyzed his personality traits a while back, but I've never been forceful on him. He does have an elitist arrogance about him and trust me again, I'm not the only one who has said that either. As for the other two and the adopted son of Australia...

Cult, he and I hate each other. That's not breaking news to anyone. He was one of the pushers of "argue the point, not the poster" call-out. I told him time and time again, once an opinion has been shared, there is nothing further to debate. You like... I don't like... and... I like... You don't like... By that time, we're spinning wheels. No one opinion is neither right nor neither wrong. At times he became very testy and did take his fair-share of bans (as have I over the years). Anger did get the better of him in the end, but what I questioned, was him saying he was a Teacher to younger kids and I thought "what?" In my opinion, the constant grind of everyday life for a Teacher, must weigh on the psyche. I'm sure it's not an easy thing to do, all day, every day. When he'd be on the forums, he'd let all of the days screaming, yelling, chasing, fighting, etc. burst out from holding it all in. You can't yell or scream back to a child, obviously, but you can join here and do that... until it becomes a greater issue.

Ozell, the adopted son of Australia... I'm 100% sure he was no older than 16, so it would seem to be true when any user who didn't lock-step with him and his step-brothers opinions, he'd be the guy to say, "nana nana booboo". He's a hand-puppet, a parrot, Peter Parker-like always chasing down a "scoop" for the front-page of the Daily Bugle (as he did each and every single day, searching for a "Why AEW sucks" opinion, to prove some sort of point he was making because so-and-so says it), but above all else, he's the carbon-copy of the character Newton, on the mid-1960's Canadian-made cartoon, The Mighty Hercules. Newton would always repeat everything he or Hercules said, for example, "Look at this Herc, look at this". Ozell was/is Newton. He stands behind his bigger brothers, spouting the same words as they do, but adding his own word, "yeah" and (quote post)

Chipper, umm... Some loved him, some hated him, some loathed him, some feared him, but I think most would say, it's much more civil now post-Chip. And hey, you can take that any way you want. From "it's no fun here anymore", "this place is dead", "there's nothing to talk about because the only users that remain, are talking in their echo-chamber, giving each other a hand-job", etc. Chip would have the more serious posts now and again, but most of his time (especially the last 3-4 weeks of his tenure) was spent mimicking other users in his own Aussie-humor way. His negativity, drowned out any positivity he did write. He and those who engaged him in conversation about (insert subject here) would completely derail any and all talk, of what those of us who enjoy AEW, wanted to talk about. Anything positive was immediately met with negativity and it only spiraled out-of-control from there. He's a shit-disturber, more than anything he said that was thought of as being funny to all. 1000+ posts a month, of which 900 was shit or negative, is still 900 posts of shit or negative. It's the 100 favorable posts that were always hard to find. If you believe that to be acceptable behavior, for all users of the forum (as stated in the rules), I think you may be over-estimating his popularity.

Just to be clear,  I'm not "scared" of anyone on this forum. I have never claimed to be the strongest, nor the weakest user here, but I will defend myself when pressed. Personal insults of family, friends and users, is completely off-limits and have been dealt with accordingly. I don't consider bitch, shithead, dumbass and other juvenile talk to be anything other than that... school-yard speak.

You may or may not not know this (that's okay, again trust me), but I've been dealing with my Mother's health issues (neurological) for the past few years, however, things had rapidly declined over the past 2-3 months, enough to make her priority number one. But, as these things go, there are periods of ups and downs, that no one has any control over. I took the time I needed and actually "left" the forum, only to be told by a little-birdie that my name had popped up a few times while out. Thankfully, she's doing better and things have slowly stabilized, so now, I have more time to partake in other activities. She's on the internet a lot, playing simple puzzle and word games, so naturally, I'd help/use it with her, or use the internet myself, after she's had enough. I don't spend all day here. I pop in and out when I can.

Anyway, as you may have noticed... this was way too long and if you're still reading, thank you.


----------



## The Wood

$Dolladrew$ said:


> I've had this discussion with you multiple times but hey let's go again.....
> 
> kayfabe is dead meaning casuals thinking it was real dont exist anymore, combat sports like boxing and mma fill the void for real fighting and the multitudes of shows not only on cable but streaming services as well have better acting and drama.
> 
> Since the WWF admitted the business was fake to avoid taxes and dealing with commissions it lost not only fans but prominence in the mind of the general audience.Wrestling is not seen as a big deal at all by casual audience as like I've said its soap operas with suplexes or has a very niche audience.
> 
> 
> If you think simply putting on a "realistic " style of wrestling would bring back millions of viewers you're just hoping on a prayer.The reality is the perception of wrestling is it's for children and fake fighting.
> 
> I don't care what product it is your not getting 10 million people to watch it unless Kim Kardashian and justin bieber are in the main event and the undercard is youtube stars lol.
> 
> Again sorry bro but you're delusionsl
> 
> Also just because you bet doesn't mean your outting your life savings on the line everytime lol,like how dumb would you be?


Of course kayfabe being dead has hurt wrestling. I’ve made that point countless times on these forums and have criticised AEW for not trying. I don’t know why you think this is a point worth making in this context.

I guess the point you’re trying to make is that with kayfabe being dead, there’s no point in trying to be good? That’s not only defeatist, but it’s just wrong (in my opinion — which goes without saying, but you can get in trouble if you don’t make that redundant claim). People can still get worked. A lot are arrogant and don’t think they can, but they’re the easiest ones of all. And the illusion of actually trying is far more engaging than a show without a true emotional core anyway.

Guarantee you that if pro-wrestling were good, it would draw a lot more. That’s not delusional. It’s common sense.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

The Wood said:


> Of course kayfabe being dead has hurt wrestling. I’ve made that point countless times on these forums and have criticised AEW for not trying. I don’t know why you think this is a point worth making in this context.
> 
> I guess the point you’re trying to make is that with kayfabe being dead, there’s no point in trying to be good? That’s not only defeatist, but it’s just wrong (in my opinion — which goes without saying, but you can get in trouble if you don’t make that redundant claim). People can still get worked. A lot are arrogant and don’t think they can, but they’re the easiest ones of all. And the illusion of actually trying is far more engaging than a show without a true emotional core anyway.
> 
> Guarantee you that if pro-wrestling were good, it would draw a lot more. That’s not delusional. It’s common sense.


No not at all I'm saying there is no "good" wrestling in the eyes of casual fans.Its viewed as play fighting and has little respect.Sure I agree(like I've always said) AEW definetly has areas where it can improve as does wrestling period......but again let me put emphasis on this so it might stick this time..............you ready?.........

There is no millions of fans waiting to comeback for the right product.Doesnt matter what promotion we're talking about the numbers in the 90s ain't coming back....EVER.

I dealt with the same fucking topic in the MMA world when viewership started to decline after the boom period.Fact is not that many people want to see people getting punched in the face,no matter how much I loved mma I understood it was a niche sport.


----------



## Pippen94

Klitschko said:


> I think that i am more on the fanboy side and feel that you make some good points, and actually agree with a lot of what you say, but you shouldn't make fun of @The Wood here. If he makes a 5000 word essay then you make a 10 000 word essay each time you post. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that skips over your posts because they are so fucking long, and its like that every single time. Get to the fucking point already man.
> 
> Also, stop baiting people all the time. It feels like since Chip got banned you stopped being scared and started to post again, and every other post you make is you baiting "haters", especially @The Wood.


If you didn't know up until recently this board was infected with trolls. Lots of good posters left & while some are making their way back others may never return.

What's being asked is that posters back up comments with evidence - given this section is dedicated to numbers & stats that shouldn't be hard.

A lot of comments here are just plain false. News does impact other shows. The numbers show when the Capitol was stormed all usual top non news shows dropped.

The same poster arguing against this was also stating for many months that raw ratings could be used as indication of aew number. The data actually showed if there was a relationship it was opposite that.

Seems like unless you call ppl names you won't get banned, but that doesn't automatically make everyone a good poster or worth engaging with.


----------



## The Wood

$Dolladrew$ said:


> No not at all I'm saying there is no "good" wrestling in the eyes of casual fans.Its viewed as play fighting and has little respect.Sure I agree(like I've always said) AEW definetly has areas where it can improve as does wrestling period......but again let me put emphasis on this so it might stick this time..............you ready?.........
> 
> There is no millions of fans waiting to comeback for the right product.Doesnt matter what promotion we're talking about the numbers in the 90s ain't coming back....EVER.
> 
> I dealt with the same fucking topic in the MMA world when viewership started to decline after the boom period.Fact is not that many people want to see people getting punched in the face,no matter how much I loved mma I understood it was a niche sport.


I don’t think it is possible for someone to be more wrong. People being punched in the face for entertainment is probably one of our earliest traditions and will probably be one of our final ones as a species. 



Pippen94 said:


> If you didn't know up until recently this board was infected with trolls. Lots of good posters left & while some are making their way back others may never return.
> 
> What's being asked is that posters back up comments with evidence - given this section is dedicated to numbers & stats that shouldn't be hard.
> 
> A lot of comments here are just plain false. News does impact other shows. The numbers show when the Capitol was stormed all usual top non news shows dropped.
> 
> The same poster arguing against this was also stating for many months that raw ratings could be used as indication of aew number. The data actually showed if there was a relationship it was opposite that.
> 
> Seems like unless you call ppl names you won't get banned, but that doesn't automatically make everyone a good poster or worth engaging with.


Lol, this is just you like the people who would fanboy for AEW that got tired of the product and trying to skewer whatever argument you don’t like.

The news did not have an effect on NXT. The news has _barely_ had an effect on viewership. That is why you get 1.3 million people watching Wednesday night wrestling during an insurrection and 850k people watching AEW during an inauguration. The only people surprised by this are those who perpetuate the myth.


----------



## La Parka

Unfortunately the weather is happening on Wednesday, so AEW is likely to see a decline in ratings this week as everyone will be watching the weather channels.


----------



## 3venflow

Go-Big Show episode 3 ratings finally released.

Go-Big Show episode 1: 1,035,000 (0.39 in the 18-49)
Go-Big Show episode 2: 991,000 (0.29 in the 18-49)
Go-Big Show episode 3: 770,000 (0.20 in the 18-49)

Not AEW, but related due to the crossover promotion and Cody being a judge. Not sure how TBS will view these ratings, the trend is downward but episode three was still #34 in the cable rankings for that night and one of the better rated non-news shows in the key demo. But it shows again how hard it is to retain your start-up audience.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Can the deal of WWE with Peacock change something in AEW´s "world"?


----------



## Prosper

ProjectGargano said:


> Can the deal of WWE with Peacock change something in AEW´s "world"?


Nah I doubt it changes anything seeing as AEW doesn't have a catalogue of content that needs a network anyway. So it's not like they are out there looking for a similar deal or for a streaming service to house their content. Maybe 5-8 years down the line. I don't think this changes how they offer their PPV's either seeing as they only do 4 a year and aren't on the $10/month model. It's just a case of WWE receiving a great offer and going in on it. 

Good deal for WWE though, they just made a billion dollars over 5 years with this. Vince gets richer and the world keeps turning.


----------



## Pippen94

ProjectGargano said:


> Can the deal of WWE with Peacock change something in AEW´s "world"?


Wwe on Wednesday won't happen anymore we know that. There's every chance USA will just cancel the show which usually finishes outside of top 50.

Ppl have boasted about wwe propping up USA but sport moving across changes everything. Wwe losing stroke


----------



## K4L318

Prosper said:


> Nah I doubt it changes anything seeing as AEW doesn't have a catalogue of content that needs a network anyway. So it's not like they are out there looking for a similar deal or for a streaming service to house their content. Maybe 5-8 years down the line. I don't think this changes how they offer their PPV's either seeing as they only do 4 a year and aren't on the $10/month model. It's just a case of WWE receiving a great offer and going in on it.
> 
> Good deal for WWE though, they just made a billion dollars over 5 years with this. Vince gets richer and the world keeps turning.


he leaving wrestling. Ya dont take your network out and sell it to streaming company unless ya prepping to sell. He gonna be richer but walking away.


----------



## The Wood

3venflow said:


> Go-Big Show episode 3 ratings finally released.
> 
> Go-Big Show episode 1: 1,035,000 (0.39 in the 18-49)
> Go-Big Show episode 2: 991,000 (0.29 in the 18-49)
> Go-Big Show episode 3: 770,000 (0.20 in the 18-49)
> 
> Not AEW, but related due to the crossover promotion and Cody being a judge. Not sure how TBS will view these ratings, the trend is downward but episode three was still #34 in the cable rankings for that night and one of the better rated non-news shows in the key demo. But it shows again how hard it is to retain your start-up audience.


It doesn’t say that at all. It says that when you tune-in for silly reality performance show #387, people will tune out _for that_. They don’t owe it to you to keep watching. 



Pippen94 said:


> Wwe on Wednesday won't happen anymore we know that. There's every chance USA will just cancel the show which usually finishes outside of top 50.
> 
> Ppl have boasted about wwe propping up USA but sport moving across changes everything. Wwe losing stroke


This is such a bad take. NBCU pays next to nothing for NXT, which is part of a package that includes one of their most iconic stables. They just paid $1 billion for WWE content to be under their umbrella. Yes, they’re going to cancel NXT because it doesn’t chart on Showbuzz Daily.


----------



## Prosper

K4L318 said:


> he leaving wrestling. Ya dont take your network out and sell it to streaming company unless ya prepping to sell. He gonna be richer but walking away.


Vince selling WWE would be an absolute shit-show. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the McMahon household if that convo is happening. I doubt that happens though he's definitely just gonna pass it down to Triple H or Stephanie.


----------



## The Wood

Vince selling WWE is not out of the question. At all. I think the McMahon family are set up fine.


----------



## K4L318

Prosper said:


> Vince selling WWE would be an absolute shit-show. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the McMahon household if that convo is happening. I doubt that happens though he's definitely just gonna pass it down to Triple H or Stephanie.


nah, he selling it to NBC. His fam know when to get out.


----------



## .christopher.

Pippen94 said:


> If you didn't know up until recently this board was infected with trolls. Lots of good posters left & while some are making their way back others may never return.
> 
> What's being asked is that posters back up comments with evidence - given this section is dedicated to numbers & stats that shouldn't be hard.
> 
> A lot of comments here are just plain false. News does impact other shows. The numbers show when the Capitol was stormed all usual top non news shows dropped.
> 
> The same poster arguing against this was also stating for many months that raw ratings could be used as indication of aew number. The data actually showed if there was a relationship it was opposite that.
> 
> Seems like unless you call ppl names you won't get banned, but that doesn't automatically make everyone a good poster or worth engaging with.


You've barely been here a year and you're talking like this. You're a prime example of why this forum has turned to shit so don't go calling out @The Wood


----------



## The Wood

How many millions do Triple H and Stephanie have (each) in stock? I’m sure they own their mansion and holiday house. They’re fine. Plus, they’ll probably be kept on as executives.


----------



## Prosper

K4L318 said:


> nah, he selling it to NBC. His fam know when to get out.


Why would he sell NOW though seeing as WWE is making more money now than they ever have? I don't think Vince is ready to step away despite his age. He's reportedly been attending RAW/SD via Zoom conferencing, so he can literally run half the business from his house if he wants lol.


----------



## The Wood

I don’t necessarily think he is selling NOW-now, but it could happen a lot more suddenly than people realise.


----------



## 3venflow

The Wood said:


> It doesn’t say that at all. It says that when you tune-in for silly reality performance show #387, people will tune out _for that_. They don’t owe it to you to keep watching.


You will find the majority of TV shows do not maintain their ratings from the first one to three episodes. It's standard now, new shows gain curious viewers and very rarely do all of them stick around. Go-Big Show is following that trend, but will need to level out at something acceptable to get a renewal.

Fear the Walking Dead is a good example. A popular show but it lost viewers almost by the episode, starting at 10m and eventually settling at 4-5m which was deemed good enough for its continuity. WWE shows are also losing viewers by the year - especially RAW (down 19% in total viewership last year and 24% in the 18-49) - but remain locked into big money deals.

AEW Dynamite debuted to 1.4m viewers and like so many shows, that dropped after just one week and then some more before ranging from 650k to 960k for the rest of 2019. Now it typically ranges from 720k to 990k depending on card strength and other circumstances.


----------



## The Wood

3venflow said:


> You will find the majority of TV shows do not maintain their ratings from the first one to three episodes. It's standard now, new shows gain curious viewers and very rarely do all of them stick around. Go-Big Show is following that trend, but will need to level out at something acceptable to get a renewal.
> 
> Fear the Walking Dead is a good example. A popular show but it lost viewers almost by the episode, starting at 10m and eventually settling at 4-5m which was deemed good enough for its continuity. WWE shows are also losing viewers by the year - especially RAW (down 19% in total viewership last year and 24% in the 18-49) - but remain locked into big money deals.
> 
> AEW Dynamite debuted to 1.4m viewers and like so many shows, that dropped after just one week and then some more before ranging from 650k to 960k for the rest of 2019. Now it typically ranges from 720k to 990k depending on card strength and other circumstances.


No, no, no — I’m not saying it doesn’t happen. I’m just saying it isn’t an inevitability. It’s the result of shit television. Maybe the Big Show or whatever the fuck should stop being bad TV?


----------



## K4L318

The Wood said:


> I don’t necessarily think he is selling NOW-now, but it could happen a lot more suddenly than people realise.


bruh his health is shit. Its coming soon. I dont think Paul or Steph have more than 30 million in stock together. This just McMahon's last run and him dippin while his kids can go back to normal life.


----------



## The Wood

Give me $30 million and my dad can sell the family business too.


----------



## K4L318

looking back, Ted Turner was da GOAT. The McMahons wont leave wit anywhere near the net Turner did.


----------



## 3venflow

The Wood said:


> No, no, no — I’m not saying it doesn’t happen. I’m just saying it isn’t an inevitability. It’s the result of shit television. Maybe the Big Show or whatever the fuck should stop being bad TV?


Not everything that loses ratings is 'shit television' as long as they don't plummet to a shockingly low level. Bertter Call Saul is one of the best TV shows in years and has lost ratings, going from a 3.2m average in season 1 to 2.16m in season 2 to 1.64m average in season three.

It's not an 'inevitability', but it is more common than not for shows to lose ratings. Not every show is a phenomenon like Breaking Bad, which did gain ratings by the year, and falling ratings do not represent a bad show.

BTW, Smackdown, which you seem to love, lost 7.7% of its viewers last year (and 16.7% in the 18-49 demo), does that make it shit? No, it just means its in line with falling ratings on TV. Unlike RAW, which dropped far beyond the norm.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

The Wood said:


> I don’t think it is possible for someone to be more wrong. People being punched in the face for entertainment is probably one of our earliest traditions and will probably be one of our final ones as a species.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, this is just you like the people who would fanboy for AEW that got tired of the product and trying to skewer whatever argument you don’t like.
> 
> The news did not have an effect on NXT. The news has _barely_ had an effect on viewership. That is why you get 1.3 million people watching Wednesday night wrestling during an insurrection and 850k people watching AEW during an inauguration. The only people surprised by this are those who perpetuate the myth.


Then that'd be 2 separate sports that numbers completely goes against your statements lol.

Much like wrestling MMAs viewership hit a peak many years ago and has slowly dwindled to the current numbers they've gotten.Much like raws historic low numbers the ufc seen the same historic lows too I believe shortly before the move from fox to ESPN +.

While they can still pop a few million viewers it's not ever going to return to the blockbuster numbers they seen at the height of the sport.......same with wrasslin.


----------



## bdon

3venflow said:


> Go-Big Show episode 3 ratings finally released.
> 
> Go-Big Show episode 1: 1,035,000 (0.39 in the 18-49)
> Go-Big Show episode 2: 991,000 (0.29 in the 18-49)
> Go-Big Show episode 3: 770,000 (0.20 in the 18-49)
> 
> Not AEW, but related due to the crossover promotion and Cody being a judge. Not sure how TBS will view these ratings, the trend is downward but episode three was still #34 in the cable rankings for that night and one of the better rated non-news shows in the key demo. But it shows again how hard it is to retain your start-up audience.


A show headlined by Cody dropping in ratings on its way to struggling to hit 700k..? Is this the AEW COVID shows again?


----------



## K4L318

bdon said:


> A show headlined by Cody dropping in ratings on its way to struggling to hit 700k..? Is this the AEW COVID shows again?


homie talks like a poet. Should just switch dat up cuz he sound fake most da time.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

K4L318 said:


> he leaving wrestling. Ya dont take your network out and sell it to streaming company unless ya prepping to sell. He gonna be richer but walking away.


Agreed. Vince leaves on the very, very top financially and on his own terms. McMahon is honestly the biggest legend in wrestling history.


----------



## K4L318

TKO Wrestling said:


> Agreed. Vince leaves on the very, very top financially and on his own terms. McMahon is honestly the biggest legend in wrestling history.


still Ted Turner


----------



## The Wood

3venflow said:


> Not everything that loses ratings is 'shit television' as long as they don't plummet to a shockingly low level. Bertter Call Saul is one of the best TV shows in years and has lost ratings, going from a 3.2m average in season 1 to 2.16m in season 2 to 1.64m average in season three.
> 
> It's not an 'inevitability', but it is more common than not for shows to lose ratings. Not every show is a phenomenon like Breaking Bad, which did gain ratings by the year, and falling ratings do not represent a bad show.
> 
> BTW, Smackdown, which you seem to love, lost 7.7% of its viewers last year (and 16.7% in the 18-49 demo), does that make it shit? No, it just means its in line with falling ratings on TV. Unlike RAW, which dropped far beyond the norm.


I’m not saying that. People who make these points are always arguing against something that isn’t there. I’ve never accused Americans of having taste. There are great shows that have great ratings. But some shows do, in fact, lose their audience because they are shitty. This is where you see more dramatic drops (like Dynamite losing half its viewers because they were expecting professional wrestling) and this Cody project, which has seemingly failed to capture the imaginations of people.


----------



## 3venflow

The Wood said:


> I’m not saying that. People who make these points are always arguing against something that isn’t there. I’ve never accused Americans of having taste. There are great shows that have great ratings. But some shows do, in fact, lose their audience because they are shitty. This is where you see more dramatic drops (like Dynamite losing half its viewers because they were expecting professional wrestling) and this Cody project, which has seemingly failed to capture the imaginations of people.


Funny you say that because in a show-by-show comparison (19 shows vs. 19 shows, which is a sufficient sample size), AEW was up 10% in 2020 against 2019. Take away the aforementioned hot start that every new show gets (and as I said and is a fact, the majority of shows DO NOT maintain their start-up audience) and AEW has been consistent and steady apart from the drop during the pandemic last year when both total viewership and demo fell from April to June before recovering well.

It's the WWE who are losing viewers at a much faster rate, yet you like to praise or use them as a stick to beat AEW with - so it seems they continue to push away viewers with their exhilarating brand of sports-entertainment?

2020 (vs. 2019):

*RAW* - 1,722,000 average (down 19.2%), 0.51 in the 18-49 (down 23.9%)
*Smackdown* - 2,207,000 average (down 7.7%), 0.60 in the 18-49 (down 16.7%)
*NXT* - 686,000 average (down 17.2%), 0.17 in the 18-49 (down 37%)
*AEW* - 855,000 average (up 10.5%), 0.30 in the 18-49 (up 20%)

Maybe what AEW is doing is keeping their base audience happy without doing much to significantly grow the product, which is a debatable approach but has worked out during the pandemic.


----------



## The Wood

3venflow said:


> Funny you say that because in a show-by-show comparison (19 shows vs. 19 shows, which is a sufficient sample size), AEW was up 10% in 2020 against 2019. Take away the aforementioned hot start that every new show gets (and as I said and is a fact, the majority of shows DO NOT maintain their start-up audience) and AEW has been consistent and steady apart from the drop during the pandemic last year when both total viewership and demo fell from April to June before recovering well.
> 
> It's the WWE who are losing viewers at a much faster rate, yet you like to praise or use them as a stick to beat AEW with - so it seems they continue to push away viewers with their exhilarating brand of sports-entertainment?
> 
> 2020 (vs. 2019):
> 
> *RAW* - 1,722,000 average (down 19.2%), 0.51 in the 18-49 (down 23.9%)
> *Smackdown* - 2,207,000 average (down 7.7%), 0.60 in the 18-49 (down 16.7%)
> *NXT* - 686,000 average (down 17.2%), 0.17 in the 18-49 (down 37%)
> *AEW* - 855,000 average (up 10.5%), 0.30 in the 18-49 (up 20%)
> 
> Maybe what AEW is doing is keeping their base audience happy without doing much to significantly grow the product, which is a debatable approach but has worked out during the pandemic.


It’s handed Vince McMahon the first place statue heading into future TV rights negotiations. I don’t praise WWE, outside of maybe an improvement to SmackDown since Roman Reigns got back and Paul Heyman and Daniel Bryan seemingly got into creative. Raw fucking sucks and I can’t even tell you what happens on that show. And I’d never argue that their audience is growing, nor does it deserve to grow. I don’t know why you’re bringing it up.


----------



## 3venflow

The Wood said:


> It’s handed Vince McMahon the first place statue heading into future TV rights negotiations. I don’t praise WWE, outside of maybe an improvement to SmackDown since Roman Reigns got back and Paul Heyman and Daniel Bryan seemingly got into creative. Raw fucking sucks and I can’t even tell you what happens on that show. And I’d never argue that their audience is growing, nor does it deserve to grow. I don’t know why you’re bringing it up.


Because you said AEW's viewership had halved because fans 'were expecting professional wrestling' while completely ignoring the trend I have hammered home that nearly every show loses viewers after its pilot episode, even after the second or third episode. Compared to many shows, AEW's ratings have held up very well despite a dip last year.

So while some - like you - may not be getting from AEW what you expected, they are actually bucking the trends in the USA where most TV ratings are down. That suggests they are doing something right in a challenging industry and last week's rating for one of the worst Dynamite cards ever shows that they seem to have brand loyalty.


----------



## Pippen94

Airing wwe Wednesday on both network & cable makes no sense. With NHL coming to USA this probably means end of Wednesday night war


----------



## The Wood

3venflow said:


> Because you said AEW's viewership had halved because fans 'were expecting professional wrestling' while completely ignoring the trend I have hammered home that nearly every show loses viewers after its pilot episode, even after the second or third episode. Compared to many shows, AEW's ratings have held up very well despite a dip last year.
> 
> So while some - like you - may not be getting from AEW what you expected, they are actually bucking the trends in the USA where most TV ratings are down. That suggests they are doing something right in a challenging industry and last week's rating for one of the worst Dynamite cards ever shows that they seem to have brand loyalty.


Do most shows lose half their audience in a matter of a few weeks? Wrestling is also serialised differently and behaves differently. If Raw’s ratings halved, it’d be a giant news story. AEW loses half and it’s a TV trend. That’s just a convenient excuse.

AEW’s ratings hold up because there is a rabid wrestling audience that watches religiously. It’s about 1.3-1.5 million people on a Wednesday, and it’s chewing on that audience which may or may not hold up — they get fatigued. You’re seeing that, in some measure, with Raw.

This audience is not growing by any substantial margin. It’s holding up based on the hardcore nature of it, and that can also work against it should TNT decide to move it later or to another night they feel is weaker or that wrestling fans will follow it to because of the reputation of wrestling fans. 



Pippen94 said:


> Airing wwe Wednesday on both network & cable makes no sense. With NHL coming to USA this probably means end of Wednesday night war


NHL probably takes the Wednesday spot, but there’s no reason NXT cannot move to a new network. It depends how badly WWE feels they have to counter-program AEW at this point. They might feel the damage has already been done and they don’t need to worry. We’re already seeing talent contracts decreased significantly because they no longer fret them jumping ship because of how AEW books.


----------



## Pippen94

3venflow said:


> Funny you say that because in a show-by-show comparison (19 shows vs. 19 shows, which is a sufficient sample size), AEW was up 10% in 2020 against 2019. Take away the aforementioned hot start that every new show gets (and as I said and is a fact, the majority of shows DO NOT maintain their start-up audience) and AEW has been consistent and steady apart from the drop during the pandemic last year when both total viewership and demo fell from April to June before recovering well.
> 
> It's the WWE who are losing viewers at a much faster rate, yet you like to praise or use them as a stick to beat AEW with - so it seems they continue to push away viewers with their exhilarating brand of sports-entertainment?
> 
> 2020 (vs. 2019):
> 
> *RAW* - 1,722,000 average (down 19.2%), 0.51 in the 18-49 (down 23.9%)
> *Smackdown* - 2,207,000 average (down 7.7%), 0.60 in the 18-49 (down 16.7%)
> *NXT* - 686,000 average (down 17.2%), 0.17 in the 18-49 (down 37%)
> *AEW* - 855,000 average (up 10.5%), 0.30 in the 18-49 (up 20%)
> 
> Maybe what AEW is doing is keeping their base audience happy without doing much to significantly grow the product, which is a debatable approach but has worked out during the pandemic.


Don't bring facts & stats into this debate, you might disprove the stuff he just makes up.


----------



## Erik.

Pippen94 said:


> Airing wwe Wednesday on both network & cable makes no sense. With NHL coming to USA this probably means end of Wednesday night war


Ending the 'war' is the best thing for both brands.


----------



## Not Lying

3venflow said:


> Go-Big Show episode 3 ratings finally released.
> 
> Go-Big Show episode 1: 1,035,000 (0.39 in the 18-49)
> Go-Big Show episode 2: 991,000 (0.29 in the 18-49)
> Go-Big Show episode 3: 770,000 (0.20 in the 18-49)
> 
> Not AEW, but related due to the crossover promotion and Cody being a judge. Not sure how TBS will view these ratings, the trend is downward but episode three was still #34 in the cable rankings for that night and one of the better rated non-news shows in the key demo. But it shows again how hard it is to retain your start-up audience.


Anyone with a brain knows the initial/debut numbers of a any new show are always the highest.. that’s been the TV trend for the past few years. 

Many “successful” shows have had the same problem, Mr. Robot, Lucifer, Better Caul Saul, Fear of the walking dead.. etc. All reality shows/competitions like The Voice/American Idol peak in their season premier. It’s such an obvious TV trend.


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> Anyone with a brain knows the initial/debut numbers of a any new show are always the highest.. that’s been the TV trend for the past few years.
> 
> Many “successful” shows have had the same problem, Mr. Robot, Lucifer, Better Caul Saul, Fear of the walking dead.. etc. All reality shows/competitions like The Voice/American Idol peak in their season premier. It’s such an obvious TV trend.


This just isn’t true. I just looked at The Masked Singer. All but one of seasons ended with a higher finale than beginning. In fact, the average for the first season was higher than the premiere episode. You only have to go back to 2018 to find a season of The Voice where the season finale did higher than the season premiere. Mr. Robot might have lost ratings as the seasons went on, but nowhere near half their audience.

Not only is the pattern far from certain, people keep using a drop of about 10% or whatever to justify what is almost a 50% turn-off rate to find its audience.

Why is it so hard for people to accept that a couple of hundred thousand people interested in checking out wrestling just said “Nope. Never again?”


----------



## CM Buck

Pippen94 said:


> Don't bring facts & stats into this debate, you might disprove the stuff he just makes up.


Don't be snarky mate


----------



## Not Lying

The Wood said:


> This just isn’t true. I just looked at The Masked Singer. All but one of seasons ended with a higher finale than beginning. In fact, the average for the first season was higher than the premiere episode. You only have to go back to 2018 to find a season of The Voice where the season finale did higher than the season premiere. Mr. Robot might have lost ratings as the seasons went on, but nowhere near half their audience.
> 
> Not only is the pattern far from certain, people keep using a drop of about 10% or whatever to justify what is almost a 50% turn-off rate to find its audience.
> 
> Why is it so hard for people to accept that a couple of hundred thousand people interested in checking out wrestling just said “Nope. Never again?”


lol, so your point is, only "a season finale" of a show that runs 2-3 months a year capable, and not 52 weeks a year, is capable *SOMETIMES of beating the premier. * That doesn't say much chief. Season finales also draw, and should draw, but the fact it *sometimes* beats the premier and much less people watch the episodes between proves my point. The fact wrestling is a 52 weeks a thing is also another point.
You'll see it again with this "The big show show", when the season finale will be the second highest or highest watched episode for the show.

And I love how you went from "half of them decided to stop watching" to "a couple of hundred thousand", a 200K drop is 15% from 1.4m which isn't far from the arbitrary 10% drop you used.


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> lol, so your point is, only "a season finale" of a show that runs 2-3 months a year capable, and not 52 weeks a year, is capable *SOMETIMES of beating the premier. * That doesn't say much chief. Season finales also draw, and should draw, but the fact it *sometimes* beats the premier and much less people watch the episodes between proves my point. The fact wrestling is a 52 weeks a thing is also another point.
> You'll see it again with this "The big show show", when the season finale will be the second highest or highest watched episode for the show.
> 
> And I love how you went from "half of them decided to stop watching" to "a couple of hundred thousand", a 200K drop is 15% from 1.4m which isn't far from the arbitrary 10% drop you used.


I didn’t say that. I just said that what you said is demonstrably not true. I haven’t gone through the weeks to see if there are peaks and valleys, but I did give an example where the average was higher than the premiere, which would imply a growing audience.

If “season finales also draw,” and we’re taking wrestling as an apples to apples comparison, then wouldn’t it be possible for a special episode of Dynamite to do more than 1.4 million? It hasn’t even come close to doing that.

Lol, a couple of hundred thousand is half their audience chief. These shows weren’t that highly watched. 850k from 1.4 million is like a 40% drop in audience. That shows clear dissatisfaction with what was sampled. There’s no two ways about that.


----------



## Shock Street

Lets just look at some other first and 2nd eps. Looking at TNT's own shows:

Animal Kindom: 1.31 to 1.10 (finale 1.51)
Claws: 1.18 to 1.21 (finale 1.57)
The Alienist: 0.88 to 1.93 (finale 1.84)
Snowpiercer: 1.94 to 1.16 (finale 1.18)
(Premieres on TBS but close enough) Go Big Show: 1.0 to .99

Drops CAN happen, *but they dont have to.* Some of you are acting like every show has a %40 percent drop after premiere when some of TNT's own shows did the complete opposite. The Alienist fucking doubled! And that's in a genre that has so much content that nobody who likes it could possibly even attempt to watch it all. Quite the opposite of a monopolized genre that's been waiting for something big to change the game for years.

If Dynamites first episode was as good as even the second episode, I have no doubt in my mind that they would have at least kept the 1.4 million. People wouldn't have been able to wait to see what happened the next week! And it being 2 hours isn't an issue, otherwise you wouldn't have seen that 1.4 mil blindly sit through the first ep either. They gave AEW the chance. Unfortunately, they waited through two full hours of near cold booking, only to find out the big surprise is Jake Hager. AEW literally spent the night and previous PPVs saying WWE BAD only to premiere with Jack Swagger... You can see how people waiting for a WWE replacement saw that and walked away. You only get so many first chances.

I really like AEW, will continue to watch every week for the characters I love (hell I even liked Jake Hager last week when he denied MJF's ring and Jericho's bat, hopefully it leads to them breaking up finally). Despite being a fan, I really don't see how anyone can look at the first episode and think they did a good job. There's 600k people who were willing to watch wrestling and give it a chance and didn't come back, and tbh I don't really know how you get them to try again without a re-branding (Sting didn't retain anybody)


----------



## bdon

Shock Street said:


> Lets just look at some other first and 2nd eps. Looking at TNT's own shows:
> 
> Animal Kindom: 1.31 to 1.10 (finale 1.51)
> Claws: 1.18 to 1.21 (finale 1.57)
> The Alienist: 0.88 to 1.93 (finale 1.84)
> Snowpiercer: 1.94 to 1.16 (finale 1.18)
> (Premieres on TBS but close enough) Go Big Show: 1.0 to .99
> 
> Drops CAN happen, *but they dont have to.* Some of you are acting like every show has a %40 percent drop after premiere when some of TNT's own shows did the complete opposite. The Alienist fucking doubled! And that's in a genre that has so much content that nobody who likes it could possibly even attempt to watch it all. Quite the opposite of a monopolized genre that's been waiting for something big to change the game for years.
> 
> If Dynamites first episode was as good as even the second episode, I have no doubt in my mind that they would have at least kept the 1.4 million. People wouldn't have been able to wait to see what happened the next week! And it being 2 hours isn't an issue, otherwise you wouldn't have seen that 1.4 mil blindly sit through the first ep either. They gave AEW the chance. Unfortunately, they waited through two full hours of near cold booking, only to find out the big surprise is Jake Hager. AEW literally spent the night and previous PPVs saying WWE BAD only to premiere with Jack Swagger... You can see how people waiting for a WWE replacement saw that and walked away. You only get so many first chances.
> 
> I really like AEW, will continue to watch every week for the characters I love (hell I even liked Jake Hager last week when he denied MJF's ring and Jericho's bat, hopefully it leads to them breaking up finally). Despite being a fan, I really don't see how anyone can look at the first episode and think they did a good job. There's 600k people who were willing to watch wrestling and give it a chance and didn't come back, and tbh I don't really know how you get them to try again without a re-branding (Sting didn't retain anybody)


You have to pop the rating like Sting’s debut did, but you HAVE to book the goddamn main event cast like main eventers. You don’t fucking follow up Sting with matches featuring Dustin and 10 with Dustin winning, Orange Cassidy vs MJF in the main event, etc. 

You pop the rating, get the FREE word of mouth advertisement spreading, give the people hot angles featuring the foundation of your roster: Omega, Cody, Moxley, Jericho, Pac, Hangman, MJF, Darby, and even the Bucks. You MUST have them featured in prominent roles, hoping to have the lapsed fan finds SOMETHING that clicks with him/her.

This shit isn’t nearly as hard as AEW makes it. They just love to kill their own momentum.


----------



## 3venflow

Per Meltzer, Hangman turning down the Dark Order was the peak for Dynamite last week at 1,044,000 viewers. Apparently, Dynamite and Smackdown did very good viewers-per-home numbers.


----------



## The Wood

Shock Street said:


> Lets just look at some other first and 2nd eps. Looking at TNT's own shows:
> 
> Animal Kindom: 1.31 to 1.10 (finale 1.51)
> Claws: 1.18 to 1.21 (finale 1.57)
> The Alienist: 0.88 to 1.93 (finale 1.84)
> Snowpiercer: 1.94 to 1.16 (finale 1.18)
> (Premieres on TBS but close enough) Go Big Show: 1.0 to .99
> 
> Drops CAN happen, *but they dont have to.* Some of you are acting like every show has a %40 percent drop after premiere when some of TNT's own shows did the complete opposite. The Alienist fucking doubled! And that's in a genre that has so much content that nobody who likes it could possibly even attempt to watch it all. Quite the opposite of a monopolized genre that's been waiting for something big to change the game for years.
> 
> If Dynamites first episode was as good as even the second episode, I have no doubt in my mind that they would have at least kept the 1.4 million. People wouldn't have been able to wait to see what happened the next week! And it being 2 hours isn't an issue, otherwise you wouldn't have seen that 1.4 mil blindly sit through the first ep either. They gave AEW the chance. Unfortunately, they waited through two full hours of near cold booking, only to find out the big surprise is Jake Hager. AEW literally spent the night and previous PPVs saying WWE BAD only to premiere with Jack Swagger... You can see how people waiting for a WWE replacement saw that and walked away. You only get so many first chances.
> 
> I really like AEW, will continue to watch every week for the characters I love (hell I even liked Jake Hager last week when he denied MJF's ring and Jericho's bat, hopefully it leads to them breaking up finally). Despite being a fan, I really don't see how anyone can look at the first episode and think they did a good job. There's 600k people who were willing to watch wrestling and give it a chance and didn't come back, and tbh I don't really know how you get them to try again without a re-branding (Sting didn't retain anybody)


Excellent post. Thanks for putting the hard work there. Hopefully it doesn’t fall on deaf ears like I imagine it would if it came from me.

Way too many people take the idea that shows drop as gospel, and then take that they drop and take it to the extreme to justify AEW missing the mark as much as it did. Not all shows drop, and certainly not all shows drop that much.


----------



## Shock Street

The Wood said:


> Excellent post. Thanks for putting the hard work there. Hopefully it doesn’t fall on deaf ears like I imagine it would if it came from me.
> 
> Way too many people take the idea that shows drop as gospel, and then take that they drop and take it to the extreme to justify AEW missing the mark as much as it did. Not all shows drop, and certainly not all shows drop that much.


I just don't love people saying shows always drop, when you can do a bit of work and see that it isn't the case. Hell, I even included Snowpiercer and its similar drop to show that AEW isn't alone and that its not just a wrestling/sports thing. The fact is, there is no rules with ratings. You either make something appealing and people watch it, or you don't.

I love AEW and want them to do better, they've been a real rock for my isolated ass this last year and a bit, but it's their fault they're stuck at 800k, not the fault of wrestling fans.



bdon said:


> You have to pop the rating like Sting’s debut did, but you HAVE to book the goddamn main event cast like main eventers. You don’t fucking follow up Sting with matches featuring Dustin and 10 with Dustin winning, Orange Cassidy vs MJF in the main event, etc.
> 
> You pop the rating, get the FREE word of mouth advertisement spreading, give the people hot angles featuring the foundation of your roster: Omega, Cody, Moxley, Jericho, Pac, Hangman, MJF, Darby, and even the Bucks. You MUST have them featured in prominent roles, hoping to have the lapsed fan finds SOMETHING that clicks with him/her.
> 
> This shit isn’t nearly as hard as AEW makes it. They just love to kill their own momentum.


I've said it before, but Tony Khan actively choosing to rotate the angles out every couple weeks just to get different faces on the show actively pisses me off. Let the god damn angles play out from start to finish. The only reason they should be OFF the show, is because they're DONE. AAAHHH


----------



## Prosper

Shock Street said:


> I've said it before, but Tony Khan actively choosing to rotate the angles out every couple weeks just to get different faces on the show actively pisses me off. Let the god damn angles play out from start to finish. The only reason they should be OFF the show, is because they're DONE. AAAHHH


You know they don't have that luxury with all the talent they have signed. WWE has 7 hours to put their talent out there, AEW has 2.


----------



## Shock Street

Prosper said:


> You know they don't have that luxury with all the talent they have signed. WWE has 7 hours to put their talent out there, AEW has 2.


Well, if you're putting someone off the show for a week, wouldn't it make more sense to do all the episodes they won't be on in a row? Rather than have them on one week, then take them off, then bring them back? They'd be missing the same number of episodes either way, no?

I don't mean the people like Hangman and Cody who have their fingers in a bunch of pots, showing up for different angles each week. I was more referencing people like Shida who will appear, then disappear for a couple weeks, then show up again to continue the same angle she was already doing. She's missing the show either way, so if I was booking I'd just have her miss them all in a row, thats all I mean.


----------



## Not Lying

Shock Street said:


> Lets just look at some other first and 2nd eps. Looking at TNT's own shows:
> 
> Animal Kindom: 1.31 to 1.10 (finale 1.51)
> Claws: 1.18 to 1.21 (finale 1.57)
> The Alienist: 0.88 to 1.93 (finale 1.84)
> Snowpiercer: 1.94 to 1.16 (finale 1.18)
> (Premieres on TBS but close enough) Go Big Show: 1.0 to .99
> 
> Drops CAN happen, *but they dont have to.* Some of you are acting like every show has a %40 percent drop after premiere when some of TNT's own shows did the complete opposite. The Alienist fucking doubled! And that's in a genre that has so much content that nobody who likes it could possibly even attempt to watch it all. Quite the opposite of a monopolized genre that's been waiting for something big to change the game for years.
> 
> If Dynamites first episode was as good as even the second episode, I have no doubt in my mind that they would have at least kept the 1.4 million. People wouldn't have been able to wait to see what happened the next week! And it being 2 hours isn't an issue, otherwise you wouldn't have seen that 1.4 mil blindly sit through the first ep either. They gave AEW the chance. Unfortunately, they waited through two full hours of near cold booking, only to find out the big surprise is Jake Hager. AEW literally spent the night and previous PPVs saying WWE BAD only to premiere with Jack Swagger... You can see how people waiting for a WWE replacement saw that and walked away. You only get so many first chances.
> 
> I really like AEW, will continue to watch every week for the characters I love (hell I even liked Jake Hager last week when he denied MJF's ring and Jericho's bat, hopefully it leads to them breaking up finally). Despite being a fan, I really don't see how anyone can look at the first episode and think they did a good job. There's 600k people who were willing to watch wrestling and give it a chance and didn't come back, and tbh I don't really know how you get them to try again without a re-branding (Sting didn't retain anybody)


You did the work, good for you, but you know damn well I can find 10 shows that dropped following the premier for each one that didn’t. It’s the nature of things, when I was giving example I specifically chose popular shows and not a any shows, to show that even the popular ones get a drop after a premier. It’s not a 100% law, but it’s by far the more common one.

I’m not even saying AEW nailed it out of the park in the first episode, and I’ve been criticsl of some hyped shows underdelivering (the anniversary show was quite terrible), the follow-up to Sting’s debut was soo disappointing, they literally filled half the show with no stars and jobbers. But you can’t keep using the premier as the barometer when WE KNOW people are watching via different means and when we KNOW wrestling is different than any other type of show as it runs 52 weeks a year and not just seasonally. 

AEW’s done a great job maintaining their TV audience in a pandemic with no crowds. 

It’s not fair to say they lost 600K, they still peak at 1.2m a bunch of times. I think they “legit” lost around 200-300K viewers, and that’s fine, what they present isn’t for everyone (boomers), and you get 200-300K that DVR or watch via other means.


----------



## fabi1982

The Definition of Technician said:


> You did the work, good for you, but you know damn well I can find 10 shows that dropped following the premier for each one that didn’t. It’s the nature of things, when I was giving example I specifically chose popular shows and not a any shows, to show that even the popular ones get a drop after a premier. It’s not a 100% law, but it’s by far the more common one.
> 
> I’m not even saying AEW nailed it out of the park in the first episode, and I’ve been criticsl of some hyped shows underdelivering (the anniversary show was quite terrible), the follow-up to Sting’s debut was soo disappointing, they literally filled half the show with no stars and jobbers. But you can’t keep using the premier as the barometer when WE KNOW people are watching via different means and when we KNOW wrestling is different than any other type of show as it runs 52 weeks a year and not just seasonally.
> 
> AEW’s done a great job maintaining their TV audience in a pandemic with no crowds.
> 
> It’s not fair to say they lost 600K, they still peak at 1.2m a bunch of times. I think they “legit” lost around 200-300K viewers, and that’s fine, what they present isn’t for everyone (boomers), and you get 200-300K that DVR or watch via other means.


Where do they peak at 1.2m? Thats mixing up data. 1.4m was overnight, your 1.2m is dvr +7 or something. I dont think they didnt grow in the premiere episode after the 1.4m overnight in the dvr numbers. But guess what, no one knows that number, because back then no one cared.


----------



## Shock Street

The Definition of Technician said:


> You did the work, good for you, but you know damn well I can find 10 shows that dropped following the premier for each one that didn’t. It’s the nature of things, when I was giving example I specifically chose popular shows and not a any shows, to show that even the popular ones get a drop after a premier. It’s not a 100% law, but it’s by far the more common one.


I'm not trying to say drops don't happen. I included Snowpiercer which had a bigger drop than AEW did after its first ep. I'm just trying to say that the drop wasn't mandatory, because if AEW nailed that premiere show with angles and stories that hooked viewers, people would have been convincing their friends to come watch the next one. Instead a bunch of them just dipped for good. The 2nd ep was way better, so it's a shame that it happened this way.



The Definition of Technician said:


> I’m not even saying AEW nailed it out of the park in the first episode, and I’ve been criticsl of some hyped shows underdelivering (the anniversary show was quite terrible), the follow-up to Sting’s debut was soo disappointing, they literally filled half the show with no stars and jobbers. But you can’t keep using the premier as the barometer when WE KNOW people are watching via different means and when we KNOW wrestling is different than any other type of show as it runs 52 weeks a year and not just seasonally.
> 
> AEW’s done a great job maintaining their TV audience in a pandemic with no crowds.
> 
> It’s not fair to say they lost 600K, they still peak at 1.2m a bunch of times. I think they “legit” lost around 200-300K viewers, and that’s fine, what they present isn’t for everyone (boomers), and you get 200-300K that DVR or watch via other means.


I agree they've done a good job of retaining since losing the big chunk, and I am sure the numbers would look different if I had access to all that, but unfortunately I do not. I mean, I'm gonna keep watching either way, I just would be happier if they were doing better (because then they could be going *bigger*). I really think that first ep hamstrung them.


----------



## Pippen94

Shock Street said:


> Well, if you're putting someone off the show for a week, wouldn't it make more sense to do all the episodes they won't be on in a row? Rather than have them on one week, then take them off, then bring them back? They'd be missing the same number of episodes either way, no?
> 
> I don't mean the people like Hangman and Cody who have their fingers in a bunch of pots, showing up for different angles each week. I was more referencing people like Shida who will appear, then disappear for a couple weeks, then show up again to continue the same angle she was already doing. She's missing the show either way, so if I was booking I'd just have her miss them all in a row, thats all I mean.


Smack down debut 3.9 million
Last week 2.2 million


----------



## Pippen94

Erik. said:


> Ending the 'war' is the best thing for both brands.


We don't need so many wwe brands. I want to hear from different ppl & voices not just same 75 year old who has had platform since forever


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> You have to pop the rating like Sting’s debut did, but you HAVE to book the goddamn main event cast like main eventers. You don’t fucking follow up Sting with matches featuring Dustin and 10 with Dustin winning, Orange Cassidy vs MJF in the main event, etc.
> 
> You pop the rating, get the FREE word of mouth advertisement spreading, give the people hot angles featuring the foundation of your roster: Omega, Cody, Moxley, Jericho, Pac, Hangman, MJF, Darby, and even the Bucks. You MUST have them featured in prominent roles, hoping to have the lapsed fan finds SOMETHING that clicks with him/her.
> 
> This shit isn’t nearly as hard as AEW makes it. They just love to kill their own momentum.


Well aew only show not to see decline so it's not as easy as you make out. Unless you another of these guys who swear they'd do better?!


----------



## 3venflow

Shock Street said:


> I'm not trying to say drops don't happen. I included Snowpiercer which had a bigger drop than AEW did after its first ep. I'm just trying to say that the drop wasn't mandatory, because if AEW nailed that premiere show with angles and stories that hooked viewers, people would have been convincing their friends to come watch the next one. Instead a bunch of them just dipped for good. The 2nd ep was way better, so it's a shame that it happened this way.


Well as the person who made the argument, I never said all shows drop, just that most do and it is the trend. I don't have the percentages, but put 100 shows on a list and I think far more than not would have lost viewers from the pilot.

And it's not like Dynamite's debut show was a flop. It had Cody vs. Sammy, PAC vs. Hangman, Riho vs. Nyla and Jericho/PnP vs. The Elite w/ the formation of the Inner Circle and Hager's surprise debut. It was a good show that felt like a big league alternative.

AEW was handicapped when it launched Dynamite by the general fall in TV ratings (including sports) and pro wrestling, with WWE's ratings for both main shows on a yearly downfall. People have so much choice nowadays, they could watch Dynamite three days late because they are binge watching The Mandarorian - the sort of thing that wouldn't have been happening in 1998.

So I feel it's quite disingenuous of people to use the whole 'they lost half their viewers!!!' argument as a stick to beat them with, because they were almost definitely going to lose viewers from the first show or two.

Let's remember that industry insiders were expecting 400~500,000 for Dynamite, and these people know more about the TV business than anyone. So not only did AEW massively overachieve vs. the expectations, they are still doing pretty well and have not really lost viewers after the opening shows. They would be doing 1m+ most weeks if not up against NXT I believe, and that show last year headlined by Dustin vs. Brodie showed that - pretty weak card, but unopposed and 1m+.









AEW Officially Announces Weekly Prime-Time Television Show On TNT Beginning October 2


AEW officially announced the premiere of its weekly television series beginning October 2 on TNT from 8:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. EST.




www.forbes.com


----------



## Shock Street

Pippen94 said:


> Smack down debut 3.9 million
> Last week 2.2 million


Bruh... AEW's first and second episode were a week apart. Smackdowns debut episode and last weeks episodes were 7817 days apart. You must see that there's a difference there. That's 1000 times longer between the two episodes for Smackdown. 1000 times.

Regardless, Smackdowns numbers going down is bad for AEW. It's just less people watching wrestling period. Other companies are gonna say "why should we invest in AEW when the WWE is failing, and they're the most popular wrestling around?"


----------



## Pippen94

Shock Street said:


> Bruh... AEW's first and second episode were a week apart. Smackdowns debut episode and last weeks episodes were 7817 days apart. You must see that there's a difference there. That's 1000 times longer between the two episodes for Smackdown. 1000 times.
> 
> Regardless, Smackdowns numbers going down is bad for AEW. It's just less people watching wrestling period. Other companies are gonna say "why should we invest in AEW when the WWE is failing, and they're the most popular wrestling around?"


Stick to topic, your argument is entirely wrong. Premieres draw largest audience. Siting aew's initial number as indication of anything is dumb.


----------



## Shock Street

Pippen94 said:


> Stick to topic, your argument is entirely wrong. Premieres draw largest audience. Siting aew's initial number as indication of anything is dumb.


Beggin ya to stop quoting me


----------



## Pippen94

Shock Street said:


> Beggin ya to stop quoting me


Stop saying dumb stuff


----------



## Klitschko

Saying AEW lost half its audience because of the debut show is as dumb as saying Smackdown lost half its audience when few weeks ago they had like 4 million viewers and lost them all the next week.


----------



## Shock Street

Klitschko said:


> Saying AEW lost half its audience because of the debut show is as dumb as saying Smackdown lost half its audience when few weeks ago they had like 4 million viewers and lost them all the next week.


Thats true, it'd have dropped to this point anyway because of all the other stupid shit they do daily


----------



## Pippen94

Klitschko said:


> Saying AEW lost half its audience because of the debut show is as dumb as saying Smackdown lost half its audience when few weeks ago they had like 4 million viewers and lost them all the next week.


Ha - Super bowl does 45 million but that drops to about 10 million for regular games the following season. NFL losers - can't retain audience


----------



## Shock Street

Pippen94 said:


> Ha - Super bowl does 45 million but that drops to about 10 million for regular games the following season. NFL losers - can't retain audience


Do you sincerely believe the first episode of Dynamite was any good? Because I do not. And if you do think that, I dont think theres any time or place in the universe that we will ever agree. 

And I know you think I just dont like AEW, but this is coming from someone who's watched every Dynamite, 90% of Dark, and every BTE and Sammys blog since I started watching Dynamite. That first ep was boring. Like, bottom 5 of all episodes of Dynamite boring.

Maybe I'm just a dick but if it was my first episode I genuinely would have been one of those 600k people who left. I dont even give 20 or 50 minute shows I dont like multiple chances, 2 hours is a long ass time.


----------



## Pippen94

#aewdark trending





United States | Twitter trending hashtag and topics today | trends24.in


Hannity, William, Quavo, Boebert, Zach Thomas - Today's top Twitter trends and hashtags at United States. Find what's trending now in your city, country or worldwide.




trends24.in


----------



## The Wood

Prosper said:


> You know they don't have that luxury with all the talent they have signed. WWE has 7 hours to put their talent out there, AEW has 2.


...That’s their fault. 



The Definition of Technician said:


> You did the work, good for you, but you know damn well I can find 10 shows that dropped following the premier for each one that didn’t. It’s the nature of things, when I was giving example I specifically chose popular shows and not a any shows, to show that even the popular ones get a drop after a premier. It’s not a 100% law, but it’s by far the more common one.
> 
> I’m not even saying AEW nailed it out of the park in the first episode, and I’ve been criticsl of some hyped shows underdelivering (the anniversary show was quite terrible), the follow-up to Sting’s debut was soo disappointing, they literally filled half the show with no stars and jobbers. But you can’t keep using the premier as the barometer when WE KNOW people are watching via different means and when we KNOW wrestling is different than any other type of show as it runs 52 weeks a year and not just seasonally.
> 
> AEW’s done a great job maintaining their TV audience in a pandemic with no crowds.
> 
> It’s not fair to say they lost 600K, they still peak at 1.2m a bunch of times. I think they “legit” lost around 200-300K viewers, and that’s fine, what they present isn’t for everyone (boomers), and you get 200-300K that DVR or watch via other means.


No, you said that all shows drop and that premiers are always rated the most highly. This is not true.

They’ve also never peaked at 1.2 million viewers. This is also not true.

The product is not for boomers, Gen-X, millennials or zoomers it seems. They get stomped out by WWE in every single field.

These myths are starting to get really frustrating. Just because the ONLY people who will tolerate you skewer younger (by, like, 5 years), it doesn’t mean MORE younger people like youz



Pippen94 said:


> Smack down debut 3.9 million
> Last week 2.2 million


Cool. Relevance? I didn’t see anyone defending WWE or discussing that. Are you suggesting that SmackDown is the superior show? Because that’s the only reason I can see that you’d bring it up, in order to justify a worse oroduct



3venflow said:


> Well as the person who made the argument, I never said all shows drop, just that most do and it is the trend. I don't have the percentages, but put 100 shows on a list and I think far more than not would have lost viewers from the pilot.
> 
> And it's not like Dynamite's debut show was a flop. It had Cody vs. Sammy, PAC vs. Hangman, Riho vs. Nyla and Jericho/PnP vs. The Elite w/ the formation of the Inner Circle and Hager's surprise debut. It was a good show that felt like a big league alternative.
> 
> AEW was handicapped when it launched Dynamite by the general fall in TV ratings (including sports) and pro wrestling, with WWE's ratings for both main shows on a yearly downfall. People have so much choice nowadays, they could watch Dynamite three days late because they are binge watching The Mandarorian - the sort of thing that wouldn't have been happening in 1998.
> 
> So I feel it's quite disingenuous of people to use the whole 'they lost half their viewers!!!' argument as a stick to beat them with, because they were almost definitely going to lose viewers from the first show or two.
> 
> Let's remember that industry insiders were expecting 400~500,000 for Dynamite, and these people know more about the TV business than anyone. So not only did AEW massively overachieve vs. the expectations, they are still doing pretty well and have not really lost viewers after the opening shows. They would be doing 1m+ most weeks if not up against NXT I believe, and that show last year headlined by Dustin vs. Brodie showed that - pretty weak card, but unopposed and 1m+.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW Officially Announces Weekly Prime-Time Television Show On TNT Beginning October 2
> 
> 
> AEW officially announced the premiere of its weekly television series beginning October 2 on TNT from 8:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. EST.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com


No one has ever denied that a show can’t lose viewers. But they can also gain viewers or at least not lose 40% if its audience in the soab



Klitschko said:


> Saying AEW lost half its audience because of the debut show is as dumb as saying Smackdown lost half its audience when few weeks ago they had like 4 million viewers and lost them all the next week.


I didn’t say they lost it strictly because of the debut. The debut didn’t help though. Didn’t hook people. And the rest of the programming has cemented those impressions. I don’t know how people can deny this, haha.

SmackDown DID have a golden opportunity to hook new people. They didn’t. That’s their fault too.


----------



## Aedubya

Some amount of unadulterated s*"'t on this thread


----------



## Not Lying

fabi1982 said:


> Where do they peak at 1.2m? Thats mixing up data. 1.4m was overnight, your 1.2m is dvr +7 or something. I dont think they didnt grow in the premiere episode after the 1.4m overnight in the dvr numbers. But guess what, no one knows that number, because back then no one cared.


I meant particular segments, the Sting and Shaq segment do like 1.1m-1.2m for example.
I'm also pretty sure some Jericho segment and Bucks segment did 1.2m too. 



The Wood said:


> ...That’s their fault.
> 
> 
> 
> No, you said that all shows drop and that premiers are always rated the most highly. This is not true.
> 
> They’ve also never peaked at 1.2 million viewers. This is also not true.
> 
> The product is not for boomers, Gen-X, millennials or zoomers it seems. They get stomped out by WWE in every single field.
> 
> These myths are starting to get really frustrating. Just because the ONLY people who will tolerate you skewer younger (by, like, 5 years), it doesn’t mean MORE younger people like youz


Ok, so 90%, instead of all, lmao.

It's not for boomers, take the demo as a % of the total, instead of just looking at the total number.

As it's been said, this trend is much more common for wrestling as evident by NXT and SD doing the same and losing a big chunk quickly. Even when SD had a golden opportunity a few weeks ago, people just aren't gona continue watching wrestling. "losing 2 million fans in 1 week", nah, they never had these fans to begin with.


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> I meant particular segments, the Sting and Shaq segment do like 1.1m-1.2m for example.
> I'm also pretty sure some Jericho segment and Bucks segment did 1.2m too.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, so 90%, instead of all, lmao.
> 
> It's not for boomers, take the demo as a % of the total, instead of just looking at the total number.
> 
> As it's been said, this trend is much more common for wrestling as evident by NXT and SD doing the same and losing a big chunk quickly. Even when SD had a golden opportunity a few weeks ago, people just aren't gona continue watching wrestling. "losing 2 million fans in 1 week", nah, they never had these fans to begin with.


No, they don’t have them. Because wrestling is so silly now that they cannot stand watching. These people don’t come from nowhere, haha. They’re lapsed fans, or potential fans, who go “Yeah, probably not for me (anymore).”


----------



## Pippen94

Dynamite cracked a million again last week;

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1354142781199945729


----------



## The Wood

They got 856k viewers. When they get 1 million, they’ll crack a million.


----------



## fabi1982

The Wood said:


> They got 856k viewers. When they get 1 million, they’ll crack a million.


I´m really not sure why you still argue with this baiting clown  Leave him to his "opinion", he will always try to bait and troll.


----------



## Erik.

Pippen94 said:


> Dynamite cracked a million again last week;
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1354142781199945729


It's clear people are interested in this storyline.

Hangman is gold and he's going to be a huge star for AEW.


----------



## Klitschko

Pippen94 said:


> Dynamite cracked a million again last week;
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1354142781199945729


This is like a grade A 7 star example of Meltzer spinning the numbers to suit his agenda.

Probably writing up an article already on how AEW got a million while picking apart RAW's lowest rated segment and saying thats what they got.


----------



## The Wood

Klitschko said:


> This is like a grade A 7 star example of Meltzer spinning the numbers to suit his agenda.
> 
> Probably writing up an article already on how AEW got a million while picking apart RAW's lowest rated segment and saying thats what they got.


It’s unbelievable. Imagine the heat someone would get if they only took the first two hours of Raw and called it their rating — you know, making the show look much better overall?

He’s now dropped the show average as a metric for them in lieu of taking AEW’s highest segment as its representative. It’s crazy.


----------



## Klitschko

The Wood said:


> It’s unbelievable. Imagine the heat someone would get if they only took the first two hours of Raw and called it their rating — you know, making the show look much better overall?
> 
> He’s now dropped the show average as a metric for them in lieu of taking AEW’s highest segment as its representative. It’s crazy.


Pretty much. Get ready for this to become a weekly thing now with him and 6 months from now for people to say that the highest rated segment was ALWAYS what counted the most. 

Like, you know I'm an AEW fan, but cmon guys. Be honest. Don't let people like Meltzer do this shit and support it. AEW doesn't need this fucker spinning numbers for them. Let the company stand on its own two legs.


----------



## The Wood

It’s going to be hilarious when it becomes AEW’s best segment being compared against Raw’s worst segment every week. It definitely will be the new 18-34 talking point if they can make it work.


----------



## 3venflow

Klitschko said:


> Like, you know I'm an AEW fan, but cmon guys. Be honest. Don't let people like Meltzer do this shit and support it. AEW doesn't need this fucker spinning numbers for them. Let the company stand on its own two legs.


He does breakdowns of the TV shows in his newsletter. Highs, lows, quarter hours, demos. He's less biased than people think and speaks highly of Smackdown and NXT plenty. Hell, he called Cole vs. Gargano the best match in WWE history and gave it 5 1/2 stars.

I remember in the late 90s and noughties when he'd praise WWF and trash WCW. He also trashed NJPW and praised NOAH, often claiming NJPW was 'like WCW at the end'. Now he lavishes praise on NJPW all the time. So his views are clearly not static.


----------



## The Wood

3venflow said:


> He does breakdowns of the TV shows in his newsletter. Highs, lows, quarter hours, demos. He's less biased than people think and speaks highly of Smackdown and NXT plenty. Hell, he called Cole vs. Gargano the best match in WWE history and gave it 5 1/2 stars.
> 
> I remember in the late 90s and noughties when he'd praise WWF and trash WCW. He also trashed NJPW and praised NOAH, often claiming NJPW was 'like WCW at the end'. Now he lavishes praise on NJPW all the time. So his views are clearly not static.


Absolutely none of that has any relevance as to whether his skewering of facts is appropriate now. I’ve seen people on these forums take his puffy bytes and speak about them like they are fact. He has a responsibility to report the truth, and he doesn’t do that anymore.

Who cares if he liked Cole vs. Gargano? That’s far from the best match in WWE history, by the way (and some could project an anti-WWE strategy in putting tension in their product). It’s still absolute bullshit he smudges things the way he does.


----------



## 3venflow

The Wood said:


> Absolutely none of that has any relevance as to whether his skewering of facts is appropriate now. I’ve seen people on these forums take his puffy bytes and speak about them like they are fact. He has a responsibility to report the truth, and he doesn’t do that anymore.


He's not skewing the facts, he wrote a tweet about one facet of the ratings. Anyone with a brain knows that the peak rating does not equal the total rating. He reports the actual ratings then goes into specifics such as quarterlies, where it peaked, where it fell, and so on. Just because he made a tweet about the peak moment, which he has probably done before for either promotion, is not skewing the facts. Let me say, he's far more objective about both WWE and AEW than you are about AEW, as he's willing to write about positives and negatives quite rationally, rather than just fawn over or outright despise a product. It's in Meltzer's interest for both promotions to be successful, because it's his meal ticket. I don't take his star ratings too seriously, but he's still the top guy for actual news and analysis (his Paul Varelans obit was excellent). Have you actually read the WON and his remarks on Smackdown and NXT?


----------



## The Wood

3venflow said:


> He's not skewing the facts, he wrote a tweet about one facet of the ratings. Anyone with a brain knows that the peak rating does not equal the total rating. He reports the actual ratings then goes into specifics such as quarterlies, where it peaked, where it fell, and so on. Just because he made a tweet about the peak moment, which he has probably done before for either promotion, is not skewing the facts. Let me say, he's far more objective about both WWE and AEW than you are about AEW, as he's willing to write about positives and negatives quite rationally, rather than just fawn over or outright despise a product. It's in Meltzer's interest for both promotions to be successful, because it's his meal ticket. I don't take his star ratings too seriously, but he's still the top guy for actual news and analysis. Have you actually read the WON and his remarks on Smackdown and NXT?


He will emphasise numbers that make AEW look good and make WWE look bad. Writing about one aspect of the ratings is exactly the point.


----------



## 3venflow

The Wood said:


> He will emphasise numbers that make AEW look good and make WWE look bad. Writing about one aspect of the ratings is exactly the point.


Because you hate AEW so much, you're only ever seeing things you want to see. He was telling someone the other day that it's unfair to compare AEW's numbers in the UK (double or better than WWE's) to Smackdown because of the networks they are on (AEW = free-to-air ITV4, WWE = pay TV BT Sport). I guess that makes him anti-AEW!


----------



## The Wood

3venflow said:


> Because you hate AEW so much, you're only ever seeing things you want to see. He was telling someone the other day that it's unfair to compare AEW's numbers in the UK (double or better than WWE's) to Smackdown because of the networks they are on (AEW = free-to-air, WWE = pay TV). I guess that makes him anti-AEW!


I’m surprised he does that. Has he done a complete 180 on conflating international PPV buys with domestic PPV buys, across several different platforms, so he can make them look superior to ECW’s domestic terrestrial PPV buys from two decades ago?

He’s certainly still actively seeking demos he can mislabel “key” to compare across different nights to make AEW look good. And now he’s certainly going after the highest point of AEW so he can report their highest number. Just you wait — high AEW to low Raw will be a thing.

Anyone that cannot see Meltzer is a shill, paid or not, is committing to the kool-aid a little too much.

He literally said “I’m not saying that AEW won, but they won” when they signed a TV rights deal that looks like it could have just been for production costs.

I think anyone reasonable has accept the bias at this point.


----------



## Pippen94

Klitschko said:


> Pretty much. Get ready for this to become a weekly thing now with him and 6 months from now for people to say that the highest rated segment was ALWAYS what counted the most.
> 
> Like, you know I'm an AEW fan, but cmon guys. Be honest. Don't let people like Meltzer do this shit and support it. AEW doesn't need this fucker spinning numbers for them. Let the company stand on its own two legs.


Peak audience is not a new thing - ha. We've been commenting on this since the start of aew. It was basis for Orange Cassidy push because he saw highest peak for many episodes


----------



## Pippen94

I post this here because the aew presence on show

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1354550213483110400


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Peak audience is not a new thing - ha. We've been commenting on this since the start of aew. It was basis for Orange Cassidy push because he saw highest peak for many episodes


It’s not a useful metric for anything. Items being touted like it’s an achievement and a marking point to rank the show, as opposed to the average.

Dynamite got ~856k viewers. That’s how we count. We don’t start up and work down. That’s never going to be how anyone does it for Raw either.


----------



## .christopher.

Klitschko said:


> Pretty much. Get ready for this to become a weekly thing now with him and 6 months from now for people to say that the highest rated segment was ALWAYS what counted the most.
> 
> Like, you know I'm an AEW fan, but cmon guys. Be honest. Don't let people like Meltzer do this shit and support it. AEW doesn't need this fucker spinning numbers for them. Let the company stand on its own two legs.


You, @RapShepard ,@SAMCRO . It's nice to see AEW fans also call bullshit when they see it instead of blindly praising everything they do like sheep.


----------



## Pippen94

.christopher. said:


> You, @RapShepard ,@SAMCRO . It's nice to see AEW fans also call bullshit when they see it instead of blindly praising everything they do like sheep.


Weird hill to die on - peak viewership is always mentioned in relation to ratings





__





Ratings - NFC Championship on FOX Draws Best Viewership Since 2017 with Peak Audience of 53 Million | TheFutonCritic.com







www.thefutoncritic.com













Joe Biden’s Inauguration Drew Almost 33.8 Million Viewers


Nielsen has a more complete picture of the viewership of Joe Biden’s inauguration last week, showing that nearly 33.8 million viewers tuned in to coverage across 17 networks. Trump’s in…




www.google.com













PUBG Mobile: PMGC Finals Peak Viewership crosses 3.7M mark


PUBG Mobile Esports reach new heights as the peak viewership of PMGC Grand Finals crossed over 3.7 Million mark.




www.talkesport.com









__





Redirect Notice






www.google.com





You guys should contact nytimes & tell them minute by minute is not a thing









Who Watched the Debates on Television, Minute By Minute (Published 2020)


Detailed viewership data shows which households tuned out of the debates first.



www.nytimes.com


----------



## DammitChrist

3venflow said:


> He's not skewing the facts, he wrote a tweet about one facet of the ratings. Anyone with a brain knows that the peak rating does not equal the total rating. He reports the actual ratings then goes into specifics such as quarterlies, where it peaked, where it fell, and so on. Just because he made a tweet about the peak moment, which he has probably done before for either promotion, is not skewing the facts. Let me say, he's far more objective about both WWE and AEW than you are about AEW, as he's willing to write about positives and negatives quite rationally, rather than just fawn over or outright despise a product. It's in Meltzer's interest for both promotions to be successful, because it's his meal ticket. I don't take his star ratings too seriously, but he's still the top guy for actual news and analysis (his Paul Varelans obit was excellent). Have you actually read the WON and his remarks on Smackdown and NXT?


Yep, I do know that Dave Meltzer is much more reliable to listen for his viewpoints compared to Jim Cornette's nonsense. Imagine relying on Jim Cornette's (laughable) opinions over someone like Dave Meltzer (or even Bryan Alvarez) :lol



.christopher. said:


> You, @RapShepard ,@SAMCRO . It's nice to see AEW fans also call *bullshit when they see it instead of blindly praising everything they do like sheep.*


That's exactly what you do when you blindly bash AEW for anything they do (like a sheep tbh). They can't seem to do anything right according to you.


----------



## Not Lying

It’s funny seeing rage about the peak viewership.
This tells us which segment the fans were most interested in seeing during the night.


----------



## Pippen94

The Definition of Technician said:


> It’s funny seeing rage about the peak viewership.
> This tells us which segment the fans were most interested in seeing during the night.


I've got certain members on ignore but I getting that vibe.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> Yep, I do know that Dave Meltzer is much more reliable to listen for his viewpoints compared to Jim Cornette's nonsense. Imagine relying on Jim Cornette's (laughable) opinions over someone like Dave Meltzer (or even Bryan Alvarez) :lol
> 
> 
> 
> That's exactly what you do when you blindly bash AEW for anything they do (like a sheep tbh). They can't seem to do anything right according to you.


Yes, a genius that was actually in the business versus two guys who have never been. Meltzer has been exposed as a real hack lately. Alvarez’s rants lack meat. His whole wrestling worldview does. The guy can constantly be outsmarted by the simplest logic. 



The Definition of Technician said:


> It’s funny seeing rage about the peak viewership.
> This tells us which segment the fans were most interested in seeing during the night.


No, it actually doesn’t. It tells us which segment was watched the most. Those aren’t synonymous. Hence, useless as anything but trivia. But you watch Meltzer try to start talking about the highs like that is the number of people watching. It’s not—that is what we have overall viewership for.


----------



## Not Lying

The Wood said:


> No, it actually doesn’t. It tells us which segment was watched the most. Those aren’t synonymous. Hence, useless as anything but trivia. But you watch Meltzer try to start talking about the highs like that is the number of people watching. It’s not—that is what we have overall viewership for.


If a person or angle is consistently *peaking* viewers interest, that means he's raising the average of the show, it means, we'll see more of this.


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> If a person or angle is consistently *peaking* viewers interest, that means he's raising the average of the show, it means, we'll see more of this.


Ratings can fluctuate due to time, placement, chance and even derision. Nice try though.


----------



## Not Lying

The Wood said:


> Ratings can fluctuate due to time, placement, chance and even derision. Nice try though.


It's not an either/or situation nerd. Some segments and angles are always gona draw the most viewers.


----------



## Pippen94

Peak viewwrship is useless. You only learn from overall average & assume every segment on show does exactly same number. That's how the pro's do it


----------



## The Wood

Actually, the pros look at a range of other things. You’re dealing with really archaic stuff. But Meltzer isn’t looking at the things peak viewership trends could actually be looking for. In fact, he’s not even looking for a trend. He’s trying to let people to know that 1 million people watched Dynamite at some point so he doesn’t have to talk about 856k.

I’m telling you — AEW’s highest to WWE’s lowest is going to become a thing.


----------



## Garty

The Wood said:


> Yes, a genius that was actually in the business versus two guys who have never been. Meltzer has been exposed as a real hack lately. Alvarez’s rants lack meat. His whole wrestling worldview does. The guy can constantly be outsmarted by the simplest logic.


You do know that Meltzer worked for WWE?
_Hitting back at accusations of bias from Bruce Prichard, Dave Meltzer was a little more specific about what he actually did, while under Vince McMahon's watch:

So, I mean, I did consulting work, and... so this is the funny thing... Bruce Prichard's acting like it was this "he was on the payroll to say bad things" and it's like nobody would ever suggest that I would say anything, and it had nothing to do with the Observer to begin with. It was all about the Japanese market and it was in 1987 and it was for a very brief period of time. So, that was the story. That's not a secret. I wrote about it in 1991 and people have asked me about many times and that's the deal. I wouldn't do it now, and I probably shouldn't have done it then, but that's 30+ years ago._

You do know he's been working in this profession (sport historian, writer, analyst, wrestling reporter, MMA reporter) for about 45 years now?
_Meltzer earned a journalism degree from San Jose State University and started out as a sportswriter for the Wichita Falls Times Record News and the Turlock Journal. He demonstrated an interest in professional wrestling and a journalistic approach to it early in life. Meltzer wrote several wrestling-related publications that predate WON, dating back to 1971._

You do know that he has, multiple times, mentioned that he has more sources still within WWE, than he does currently in AEW? You do know his reporting, comes by way of said sources? You do know that Dave Scherer, Mike Johnson and Wade Keller, also use their own and/or same sources? This is why you'll see those few legitimate writers who break a story, will give credit, to the first one who had actually reported it.
_Nobody, willfully, would put out any information that is knowingly false, or untrue. That's why most all wrestling websites (probably even this website), are named as being dirt-sheets. If Meltzer can be credited for a story, just as he can credit others for a story, why is his reporting automatically dismissed? The "Oh he changes his story when he needs to because..." is complete BS. Do you know why it's BS? How many times have you read over the years and particularly in the past few months (from multiple sources) that Vince changes his mind on the direction, vision and continuity of WWE on a daily basis, sometimes even minutes before going live? If others have also reported the same (insert subject here) and it too becomes "incorrect/false", do you also call their reporting BS? Yes, Meltzer takes many more shots, but only because he's more social and interactive with wrestlers and wrestling fans, than some of the other writers do._



The Wood said:


> Ratings can fluctuate due to time, placement, chance and even derision. Nice try though.


Essentially what you're saying, is ratings can increase and decrease on a minute-to-minute basis, or is that just in regards to AEW? I say that since you're always pointing out the worst of every aspect in and about AEW. If everyone here had to pay you for your "expertise" of "facts" on what was going to, or should happen with AEW, I think we'd all be broke by now:

_- out of business in six months (2019)
-out of business by summer (2020)_

_date and time change (2020)_
_cancelled by TNT (2019)_
_no renewal of TV deal (2020)_
_no growth in fans and/or ratings (2019, 2020, 2021)_
_ratings have dropped since the debut show with 1.4 million viewers (2019, 2020, 2021)_
_four-year TV renewal deal, not good enough (2020)_
_wait until TNT Executives hear about this... (2019, 2020, 2021) Jimmy Havoc drunk and disorderly at AEW party, Excalibur's racist commentary, Sammy Guevara's rape joke, Jake Hager's sexual assault allegation, Chris Jericho's CV-19 concert, JR's opinions on AEW talent and their work-rate, two OVW independent wrestlers not properly paid, Don Callis' sexual assault allegation... 2021 has just started, what else you got?_
Nice try though.

*EDITED: DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO THE ABOVE*


----------



## Klitschko

So does this mean -1 is a draw? Either Hangman brought those people in, or a lot of people wanted to see -1's birthday party.


----------



## 3venflow

Ratings predictions? Will the TNT blackout in the opener have hurt them given Americans seem to love changing channels?  

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if last night's 8/10 show does a worse rating than last week's 4/10 show. It's very hard to understand ratings, as they've had banger shows do 700,000 and weak shows do 800,000.

I'll be optimistic and go 800,000 but feel the show flowed so smoothly and had good action that it deserves more.


----------



## La Parka

Pippen94 said:


> I post this here because the aew presence on show
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1354550213483110400





DammitChrist said:


> Yep, I do know that Dave Meltzer is much more reliable to listen for his viewpoints compared to Jim Cornette's nonsense. Imagine relying on Jim Cornette's (laughable) opinions over someone like Dave Meltzer (or even Bryan Alvarez) :lol


Uh lets see

Jim Cornette - Has been IN the business for over 30 years.

Meltzer - Has talked about a business that he was never in. 

Saying Meltzer is more credible than Jim would be like saying a fan of football has more credible opinions than Bill Belichick.


----------



## .christopher.

DammitChrist said:


> Yep, I do know that Dave Meltzer is much more reliable to listen for his viewpoints compared to Jim Cornette's nonsense. Imagine relying on Jim Cornette's (laughable) opinions over someone like Dave Meltzer (or even Bryan Alvarez) :lol
> 
> 
> 
> That's exactly what you do when you blindly bash AEW for anything they do (like a sheep tbh). They can't seem to do anything right according to you.


As a WRESTLING fan, I'm not going to praise a show that shits on and makes a mockery of wrestling.


La Parka said:


> Uh lets see
> 
> Jim Cornette - Has been IN the business for over 30 years.
> 
> Meltzer - Has talked about a business that he was never in.
> 
> Saying Meltzer is more credible than Jim would be like saying a fan of football has more credible opinions than Bill Belichick.


It's so unbelievably dumb, but because Meltzer praises AEW they go along with it.

Over here in England, the pundits for footy are all former professionals because they've been in the game, not some fan who's watched since George Best was killing teams every week.


----------



## The Wood

[


Klitschko said:


> So does this mean -1 is a draw? Either Hangman brought those people in, or a lot of people wanted to see -1's birthday party.


Or it could just be that is where the segment is placed or Gary called Bob and said “Look at how weird this shit is” and they both laughed at wrestling.

By the way, if -1 is a draw, that says a lot about how unprofessional the rest of the show is. Imagine being so unqualified at your job that an 8-year-old could do it better.


----------



## Shock Street

Klitschko said:


> So does this mean -1 is a draw? Either Hangman brought those people in, or a lot of people wanted to see -1's birthday party.


My genuine guess is that people saw on Twitter that Luther was getting beat up by an 8 year old and jumped on to see the madness. I truly think that's a draw, *just* *not for the right reasons. *


----------



## Klitschko

I mean what you guys said makes sense. They checked it out and then left the show because if that peaked at over a million at beginning of the night and the whole show got around 850k then they lost something close to 200k of fans through the night. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Shock Street said:


> My genuine guess is that people saw on Twitter that Luther was getting beat up by an 8 year old and jumped on to see the madness. I truly think that's a draw, *just* *not for the right reasons. *


Seeing the drizzling shit people watch on TLC and WE TV that they like to call ‘reality tv’, this wouldn’t surprise me. It’s this kind of shit that makes Russo believe he was ever relevant.


----------



## Prosper

I'm gonna go with 870K and a 0.39 demo this week.


----------



## The Wood

Shock Street said:


> My genuine guess is that people saw on Twitter that Luther was getting beat up by an 8 year old and jumped on to see the madness. I truly think that's a draw, *just* *not for the right reasons. *


This is the sort of thing I would imagine to be true about a lot of what “spikes.” I didn’t study the Orange Cassidy stuff, but it seems like common sense this would be the case there if him having any effect on ratings were true (I’ve seen some people point out that isn’t even true in the first place though).

Just because people are watching something, it doesn’t mean they like it. 



Klitschko said:


> I mean what you guys said makes sense. They checked it out and then left the show because if that peaked at over a million at beginning of the night and the whole show got around 850k then they lost something close to 200k of fans through the night. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.


This is another thing to consider. Where do these people go? If AEW is so good, why do they tune in for freak show segments and not stick around for the rest of the show? It’s probably something to do with them not being interested.


----------



## DammitChrist

La Parka said:


> Uh lets see
> 
> Jim Cornette - Has been IN the business for over 30 years.
> 
> Meltzer - Has talked about a business that he was never in.
> 
> Saying Meltzer is more credible than Jim would be like saying a fan of football has more credible opinions than Bill Belichick.


It's funny how Dave Meltzer is still more reliable compared to someone who's really out of touch in 2021 (even after all those "precious" decades in the business) :lol


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> It's funny how Dave Meltzer is still more reliable compared to someone who's really out of touch in 2021 (even after all those "precious" decades in the business) :lol


Let’s not derail this thread, but in the nothing time between now and when the ratings are released, care to list just one way Jim Cornette is out of touch? Let’s take it into the Cornette review thread. Find one of his criticisms in there and challenge it. You know, instead of just saying that the bee is a walrus and hoping it sticks.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> Let’s not derail this thread, but in the nothing time between now and when the ratings are released, care to list just one way Jim Cornette is out of touch? Let’s take it into the Cornette review thread. Find one of his criticisms in there and challenge it. You know, instead of just saying that the bee is a walrus and hoping it sticks.


What does a bee "being" a walrus have to do with anything? 😂 

Way to derail this thread (yet again)


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

over 800k

mmmm..... gonna say 920k

0.36


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> What does a bee "being" a walrus have to do with anything? 😂
> 
> Way to derail this thread (yet again)


You’re just saying something is true with nothing to back it up.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Don't worry I'm a dipshit but 👍👍👍👍🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## ProjectGargano

$Dolladrew$ said:


> AEW Dynamite Defeats NXT in Ratings as Sting, Darby Allin Challenged by Team Taz
> 
> 
> AEW Dynamite scored a ratings victory over WWE NXT in this week's edition of the Wednesday night wrestling war...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW averaged 854,000 viewers
> 
> @bdon I told you bro(and the people agreeing with him) you were WRONG 2 weeks in a row.......the whole thing you said about the card last week tanking the ratings was just like I said WRONG,WRONG,WRONG.


well, that was from last week.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

ProjectGargano said:


> well, that was from last week.


I'm a dipshit 🤣👌👍


----------



## Pippen94

La Parka said:


> Uh lets see
> 
> Jim Cornette - Has been IN the business for over 30 years.
> 
> Meltzer - Has talked about a business that he was never in.
> 
> Saying Meltzer is more credible than Jim would be like saying a fan of football has more credible opinions than Bill Belichick.


Cornette lost his last real job in wrestling for telling one of his jokes, which is 35 years old & no longer appropriate in today's world. He has no insight or relevancy to today's business


----------



## Pentagon Senior

I reckon less than last week, which seemed anomolously high


----------



## La Parka

Pippen94 said:


> Cornette lost his last real job in wrestling for telling one of his jokes, which is 35 years old & no longer appropriate in today's world. He has no insight or relevancy to today's business


Dave has never had a real wrestling job, so even by your own premise Jim is more credible...




DammitChrist said:


> It's funny how Dave Meltzer is still more reliable compared to someone who's really out of touch in 2021 (even after all those "precious" decades in the business) :lol


How exactly is Jim unreliable? 

He tells stories about his days IN the business and critically reviews wrestling programming. 

on the other hand you have Dave Meltzer pretends to be an unbias reviewer. 






A COMPLETE 180!







Both of these PPV's had embarrassing main events and look at how different Dave reviews the two events. This is your in touch reliable source? 

Now look at how Jim reviews stupid shit: 











Shame energy for two completely different companies that are doing stupid shit.


----------



## La Parka

The Wood said:


> [
> 
> 
> Or it could just be that is where the segment is placed or Gary called Bob and said “Look at how weird this shit is” and they both laughed at wrestling.
> 
> By the way, if -1 is a draw, that says a lot about how unprofessional the rest of the show is. Imagine being so unqualified at your job that an 8-year-old could do it better.


"look how weird this shit is" is AEW's entire fanbase. Gary and Bob may have a chucke the goof with his hands in his pockets but next week they probably aren't tuning into see the same joke that's been told for an entire year. 

The 800k people always laugh at this joke though. Its never not funny.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1354898355776876557

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

AEW: 734,000 (0.29 key demo), #6 on cable

NXT: 720,000 (0.21 key demo), #24 on cable


----------



## La Parka

LifeInCattleClass said:


> over 800k
> 
> mmmm..... gonna say 920k
> 
> 0.36





M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1354898355776876557
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ProjectGargano

Oh, that was not good.


----------



## Not Lying

Really great demo number, but the overall viewership being down was expected after last week's show.


----------



## Mr316

Not surprised. Nobody cares.


----------



## Prosper

734k with a 0.40 demo.

Great demo but lower overall viewers. Fine by me.

And @La Parka give it a rest my guy, if the show is so full of “stupid shit” which you like to tell us in every thread then stop investing your time into it. I don’t know what you’re expecting from a wrestling show this is the same shit we have been watching since the Attitude Era, you can’t die on the OC hill get over it who cares


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Once the pandemic is over. The shows will be must see


----------



## ProjectGargano

Mr316 said:


> Not surprised. Nobody cares.


At least you care.


----------



## Prosper

Mr316 said:


> Not surprised. Nobody cares.


So why are you posting in the thread?


----------



## Aedubya

Horrible rating lol 
Wtf!?


----------



## Shock Street

oof, but an oof that fits the normal AEW pattern.


----------



## Pippen94

Is that demo right??


----------



## 3venflow

Prosper said:


> So why are you posting in the thread?


It also makes no sense as a comment. AEW is a high-ranking cable show, and NXT fared well this week too.

'Nobody cares in comparison to the 90s' would be a more accurate statement.

I wonder how the 10-15 minute TNT blackout at the start affected things. We await the quarterlies, I guess.



Pippen94 said:


> Is that demo right??


Nah, 0.40 is for males only, 0.29 for both genders. AEW didn't have as many females this week, possibly because of the women's tournament NXT is running. It's easy to read the wrong column (I did).


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Boooooooo!!!

worse than i expected

let’s get back -1 for da ratingzzzz!


----------



## fabi1982

Prosper said:


> 734k with a 0.40 demo.
> 
> Great demo but lower overall viewers. Fine by me.
> 
> And @La Parka give it a rest my guy, if the show is so full of “stupid shit” which you like to tell us in every thread then stop investing your time into it. I don’t know what you’re expecting from a wrestling show this is the same shit we have been watching since the Attitude Era, you can’t die on the OC hill get over it who cares


Where do you see a 0.4 demo? Is the male demo now the new chick in town?


----------



## Prosper

Ahhh so it was 0.29 demo not 0.40



fabi1982 said:


> Where do you see a 0.4 demo? Is the male demo now the new chick in town?


Earlier report was edited from .40 to .29


----------



## ProjectGargano

fabi1982 said:


> Where do you see a 0.4 demo? Is the male demo now the new chick in town?


Are you happy now? How was Chip banned and this guys are still here? Chip was constructive at least. The Wood too.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lol, even though its not a beatdown like normal, this is still funny


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1354898449502793729
all things considered, demo should really never drop below 0.3


----------



## Garty

3venflow said:


> AEW: 734,000 (0.29 key demo), #6 on cable
> 
> NXT: 720,000 (0.21 key demo), #24 on cable
> 
> View attachment 96513


----------



## fabi1982

ProjectGargano said:


> Are you happy now? How was Chip banned and this guys are still here? Chip was constructive at least. The Wood too.


Where does that comes from? Had a bad day? I just was wondering why a proper poster like prosper now using the male demo. So calm down and stay safe in Portugal.


----------



## RiverFenix

So AEW lost 120K viewers from last week, NXT added 60K - so 60K people who watched last week didn't bother this week.


----------



## rbl85

The max viewers that the blackout can take is +/- between 10-20K viewers overall because i believe it wasn't a global blackout.

Now it's not really a surprise because usually the rating of an episode is the reflection of past week episode popularity.

Next week will be up because (i'm putting the fact that it's a special episode aside) this week was good.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Im sure theres a capitol storming or inauguration to blame this on.










...


----------



## La Parka

Prosper said:


> 734k with a 0.40 demo.
> 
> Great demo but lower overall viewers. Fine by me.
> 
> And @La Parka give it a rest my guy, if the show is so full of “stupid shit” which you like to tell us in every thread then stop investing your time into it. I don’t know what you’re expecting from a wrestling show this is the same shit we have been watching since the Attitude Era, you can’t die on the OC hill get over it who cares


This isn't anything like the attitude era and the ratings would testify to that. 

I am hardly "investing" time into it. (Apparently not many others are either). I just find it comical that the same people that proclaim every week that the show is really great and everyone who is critical of the show are out of touch old people who are stuck in 1980 are now going to have to find different ways to justify why AEW continues to do poorly in the ratings.


----------



## fabi1982

Oh and btw I think @bdon won the bet with whoever he fought about. I remember someone telling bdon this week wouldnt go below 800k and bdon said it will.
So TELL EM BDON!!


----------



## rbl85

fabi1982 said:


> Oh and btw I think @bdon won the bet with whoever he fought about. I remember someone telling bdon this week wouldnt go below 800k and bdon said it will.
> So TELL EM BDON!!


I think Bdon didn't make the bet.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Well, next week it should be up to +800k. It will be a bad signal if it wont. And then we have the ratings magnet Riho back to give +900k to the good guys lol


----------



## 3venflow

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> So AEW lost 120K viewers from last week, NXT added 60K - so 60K people who watched last week didn't bother this week.


Total viewership was down 3.9% this week from 1,513,000 to 1,454,000. NXT had a big bump in the key demo (up 40%) where they're usually weak, while AEW lost nearly 20% from last week in the key demo.


----------



## fabi1982

rbl85 said:


> I think Bdon didn't make the bet.


Still someone embarrassed himself by trying to convince bdon that he doesnt have a clue.


----------



## rbl85

3venflow said:


> Total viewership was down 3.9% this week from 1,513,000 to 1,454,000. NXT had a big bump in the key demo (up 40%) where they're usually weak, while AEW lost nearly 20% from last week in the key demo.


Possible than some people switched to NXT because of the blackout and never came back to Dynamite but in the end the difference should be 15-30K at most


----------



## Shock Street

rbl85 said:


> Possible than some people switched to NXT because of the blackout and never came back to Dynamite


I saw a lot of people in the live Reddit thread say they were leaving when it still wasn't working after 10 minutes or so. Would not be surprised.


----------



## Prosper

La Parka said:


> This isn't anything like the attitude era and the ratings would testify to that.
> 
> I am hardly "investing" time into it. (Apparently not many others are either). I just find it comical that the same people that proclaim every week that the show is really great and everyone who is critical of the show are out of touch old people who are stuck in 1980 are now going to have to find different ways to justify why AEW continues to do poorly in the ratings.


Let's not ignore the details man. You know well enough that this isn't the entire audience. Same goes for RAW, SD, and NXT. I don't understand how you people can use the same arguments over and over after admitting to knowing better. I don't know you IRL but I would bet money that whenever you watch, its not through a cable box.

Its just like the Attitude Era as far as content and storylines, same with the comedy and goofiness. Only difference is talent were larger than life stars, which wrestling won't get back to given the stigmas that have grown from it over the years.

Yes you are investing time into it. You say it's all "stupid shit" and that all the talent they have signed sucks but you still have a better idea of what's going on in the product then any casual and probably a lot of hard-cores for that matter given that you frequent WF often enough.

I haven't seen anyone say that the only people who hate AEW are "old out of touch people". Just Jim Cornette from what I see. There are plenty of older wrestling fans that enjoy AEW. And there are others that have their criticisms.


----------



## Garty

3venflow said:


> It also makes no sense as a comment. AEW is a high-ranking cable show, and NXT fared well this week too.
> 
> I wonder how the 10-15 minute TNT blackout at the start affected things. We await the quarterlies, I guess.


I'm guessing it had a negative effect on the show overall, due to NXT's rating being 100,000+ higher this week than is usual, with AEW struggling to get back the "we can't see you" crowd by the end of the show. With that said, AEW still won the night, but it would also explain AEW's lower number this week as well.

The quarter breakdowns will tell the entire story this week. Maybe we should all wait for that tomorrow?!


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Alarming in all accounts. This has to be sending shockwaves up and down the company today.


----------



## Pippen94

rbl85 said:


> The max viewers that the blackout can take is +/- between 10-20K viewers overall because i believe it wasn't a global blackout.
> 
> Now it's not really a surprise because usually the rating of an episode is the reflection of past week episode popularity.
> 
> Next week will be up because (i'm putting the fact that it's a special episode aside) this week was good.


More of a reflection they build to bigger special episodes.


----------



## rbl85

TKO Wrestling said:


> *Alarming in all accounts.* This has to be sending shockwaves up and down the company today.


Not at all.

If next week does +/- the same number then yes but nothing alarming for the moment.

Let's not forget that for a good amount of people the first 15min were a black screen.


----------



## Garty

fabi1982 said:


> Where does that comes from? Had a bad day? I just was wondering why a proper poster like prosper now using the male demo. So calm down and stay safe in Portugal.


If prosper posted an improper post, would prospers posts still be posted?! Probably!!!


----------



## Prosper

Garty is All Elite said:


> If prosper posted an improper post, would prospers posts still be posted?! Probably!!!


LOL that was good


----------



## fabi1982

Garty is All Elite said:


> If prosper posted an improper post, would prospers posts still be posted?! Probably!!!


Prospery the first funny post from you, cudos 

Edit: probably


----------



## Garty

fabi1982 said:


> Prospery the first funny post from you, cudos
> 
> Edit: probably


I think you still got it wrong with your edit... I think you mean "possibly" and...


----------



## RainmakerV2

Shock Street said:


> I saw a lot of people in the live Reddit thread say they were leaving when it still wasn't working after 10 minutes or so. Would not be surprised.


If you're an actual FAN, you give up on a show thats 2 hours after 10 minutes? Lol. Bdon was right, people were tired of the politics last week so they actually popped a nice number and then those people saw Peter Avalon in a 15 minute match and that clusterfuck of a fat Jericho tag match and didnt come back.


----------



## Pippen94

La Parka said:


> Dave has never had a real wrestling job, so even by your own premise Jim is more credible...
> 
> 
> 
> How exactly is Jim unreliable?
> 
> He tells stories about his days IN the business and critically reviews wrestling programming.
> 
> on the other hand you have Dave Meltzer pretends to be an unbias reviewer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A COMPLETE 180!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both of these PPV's had embarrassing main events and look at how different Dave reviews the two events. This is your in touch reliable source?
> 
> Now look at how Jim reviews stupid shit:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shame energy for two completely different companies that are doing stupid shit.


Being moved on from nwa because your gimmick no longer works in today's world & you can't identify that is not the best resume when it comes critiquing the current product


----------



## Shock Street

RainmakerV2 said:


> If you're an actual FAN, you give up on a show thats 2 hours after 10 minutes? Lol. Bdon was right, people were tired of the politics last week so they actually popped a nice number and then those people saw Peter Avalon in a 15 minute match and that clusterfuck of a fat Jericho tag match and didnt come back.


I didn't, but I would not be surprised if some did. That said, I WOULD be surprised if all 200k people missing from last week left for that reason. I'd be surprised if even 100k for that reason.


----------



## Pippen94

#6 for night


----------



## RainmakerV2

Shock Street said:


> I didn't, but I would not be surprised if some did. That said, I WOULD be surprised if all 200k people missing from last week left for that reason. I'd be surprised if even 100k for that reason.



There were plenty of times back in the day when RAW was pre empted or my power or cable went out for a few minutes and i didnt just say "fuck this im not watching the rest when it comes back." What nonsense.


----------



## The XL 2

Guys like MJF and Jungle Boy are potential break out stars on a national level. These guys should be the focus and not overrated politicans like Cody, Omega and the Bucks.


----------



## MoxAsylum

What??? You mean people aren't interested in the geek express or a whiny Cody, or interested in a wannabe Jeff Hardy?


----------



## Shock Street

RainmakerV2 said:


> There were plenty of times back in the day when RAW was pre empted or my power or cable went out for a few minutes and i didnt just say "fuck this im not watching the rest when it comes back." What nonsense.


And why wouldn't you. I just don't think all 200k missing from last week were for that reason, I think some were due to last weeks ep just being kinda lame


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> There were plenty of times back in the day when RAW was pre empted or my power or cable went out for a few minutes and i didnt just say "fuck this im not watching the rest when it comes back." What nonsense.


Back in a the day the only way to watch the show was to watch it live.

Also just to be clear i'm not saying AEW did less than last week because of the 15min blackout, all i'm saying is that it probably cost the shows 15-25k viewers.


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> Back in a the day the only way to watch the show was to watch it live.



So why is this fucking thread even here? Everytime they do a poor number you can just say " herp derp DVR and illegal streams no one watches live anymore herp derp". Okay, so why is this thread even a thing? Who gives a fuck then?


----------



## La Parka

Prosper said:


> Let's not ignore the details man. You know well enough that this isn't the entire audience. Same goes for RAW, SD, and NXT. I don't understand how you people can use the same arguments over and over after admitting to knowing better. I don't know you IRL but I would bet money that whenever you watch, its not through a cable box.
> 
> Its just like the Attitude Era as far as content and storylines, same with the comedy and goofiness. Only difference is talent were larger than life stars, which wrestling won't get back to given the stigmas that have grown from it over the years.
> 
> Yes you are investing time into it. You say it's all "stupid shit" and that all the talent they have signed sucks but you still have a better idea of what's going on in the product then any casual and probably a lot of hard-cores for that matter.
> 
> I haven't seen anyone say that the only people who hate AEW are "old out of touch people". Just Jim Cornette from what I see. There are plenty of older wrestling fans that enjoy AEW. And there are others that have their criticisms.


There's plenty of goofiness in the attitude era but it was usually separate from the main event matches. 

OC is winning top billed matches while being goofy. How many times did Austin face and lose to Godfather? Could you imagine Austin losing to Godfather because one of Godfather's ho's lifted up her skirt? because thats the vibe OC gives off when hes in matches with guys like Cody, MJF, Jericho and Pac. Could you imagine if during a ladder match Jeff Hardy "forgot" how to use a ladder? people would think he was a complete idiot and it would ruin the match. But in AEW... You have this hyped up ladder match for a world title shot and OC forgets how to use a ladder? That is when the goofiness crosses the line from fun to harmful to your product. Thats the difference of tone that the attitude era had. They had silly shit but when things got real, the matches had an intense feel to it.


If AEW limited itself to one goofy thing a week the show would be much more palatable for me and probably a handful of others. Sometimes dynamite shows have 4-5 segments of either goofy shit or goofy characters. 

Could AEW ever get attitude era ratings? absolutely not. Could they do Raw / SD ratings of today? I think its obtainable but they won't do that if they don't make some changes.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> So why is this fucking thread even here? Everytime they do a poor number you can just say " herp derp DVR and illegal streams no one watches live anymore herp derp". Okay, so why is this thread even a thing? Who gives a fuck then?


To tell you the truth i don't think the forum need threads like that because at the end of the day the only that this thread bring is drama.


----------



## One Shed

Remember last week when a lot of us (once again) said ratings lag a week and that this week would be down due to the piss poor show presented last week? Well there you go.

No events in the US + piss poor show a week earlier = ratings decline. That is how this works. A ton of extra people tuned in last week and did not like what they saw, hence where it is this week. To argue otherwise is Meltzer levels of gymnastics and juggling at this point.


----------



## rbl85

Two Sheds said:


> Remember last week when a lot of us (once again) said ratings lag a week and that this week would be down due to the piss poor show presented last week? Well there you go.
> 
> No events in the US + piss poor show a week earlier = ratings decline. That is how this works. A ton of extra people tuned in last week and did not like what they saw, hence where it is this week. To argue otherwise is Meltzer levels of gymnastics and juggling at this point.


Nobody is arguing that, the only thing some of us are saying is that the 15min black screen probably took 15-25K viewers.


----------



## 3venflow

rbl85 said:


> To tell you the truth i don't think the forum need threads like that because at the end of the day the only that this thread bring is drama.


Some people (like me) enjoy looking at numbers and trends. Total viewership doesn't mean as much now as it did say during the Monday Night Wars because live TV is on a downward trend (probably explains the importance of the 'key demo' now), but is still important because you don't want your show being cancelled.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure TNT views Dynamite as one of its main assets given they are one of the top non-news shows every Wednesday on cable. And they plan to run their new MMA primetime series ONE on Wednesdays with Dynamite as the lead-in.









ONE Championship to debut live primetime event series on TNT on April 7 following AEW wrestling


ONE Championship will debut a new series called ONE on TNT starting on April 7 following AEW wrestling with former UFC champions Demetrious Johnson and Eddie Alvarez on the first event.




www.mmafighting.com


----------



## Prosper

RainmakerV2 said:


> So why is this fucking thread even here? Everytime they do a poor number you can just say " herp derp DVR and illegal streams no one watches live anymore herp derp". Okay, so why is this thread even a thing? Who gives a fuck then?


Exactly why this ratings argument shit is pointless. For me I like to see what talents are getting over in real time or what cable people think about particular segments as they are going on in the moment. Being a digital marketer in real life also makes me a data junkie. A lot of other people here though I don't know wtf they're doing or even arguing. I think people just like to use ratings to justify their opinion on the product or particular talents, that's all it is. Everyone gets a hard on when they can say "I told you so!" not even realizing what they're arguing in the first place. People here are a little smarter but it makes me laugh reading the WWE section and other forums outside of WF.


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> Remember last week when a lot of us (once again) said ratings lag a week and that this week would be down due to the piss poor show presented last week? Well there you go.
> 
> No events in the US + piss poor show a week earlier = ratings decline. That is how this works. A ton of extra people tuned in last week and did not like what they saw, hence where it is this week. To argue otherwise is Meltzer levels of gymnastics and juggling at this point.


Had nothing to do with that. No high profile matches promoted this week & show in holding pattern till Beach Break.


----------



## rbl85

Pippen94 said:


> Had nothing to do with that. No high profile matches promoted this week & show in holding pattern till Beach Break.


The card was better this week


----------



## justin waynes

Aew has no direction and future ,they are inconsistent and are filled up with egomaniacs and wannabes .I believe it is better pro wrestling in general goes out of business


----------



## Pippen94

rbl85 said:


> The card was better this week


Better than next week that they've been building to for a while??


----------



## Prosper

La Parka said:


> There's plenty of goofiness in the attitude era but it was usually separate from the main event matches.
> 
> OC is winning top billed matches while being goofy. How many times did Austin face and lose to Godfather? Could you imagine Austin losing to Godfather because one of Godfather's ho's lifted up her skirt? because thats the vibe OC gives off when hes in matches with guys like Cody, MJF, Jericho and Pac. Could you imagine if during a ladder match Jeff Hardy "forgot" how to use a ladder? people would think he was a complete idiot and it would ruin the match. But in AEW... You have this hyped up ladder match for a world title shot and OC forgets how to use a ladder? That is when the goofiness crosses the line from fun to harmful to your product. Thats the difference of tone that the attitude era had. They had silly shit but when things got real, the matches had an intense feel to it.
> 
> 
> If AEW limited itself to one goofy thing a week the show would be much more palatable for me and probably a handful of others. Sometimes dynamite shows have 4-5 segments of either goofy shit or goofy characters.
> 
> Could AEW ever get attitude era ratings? absolutely not. Could they do Raw / SD ratings of today? I think its obtainable but they won't do that if they don't make some changes.


You're counting OC as doing main event stuff though when he hasn't. The main event scene has only consisted of Moxley, Omega, Cody, Jericho, Hangman, Kingston, Archer, and PAC thus far. All of it has been serious type content. The only consistent comedy on Dynamite comes from OC. You're taking a few instances of comedy and blowing them up to make it seem like the whole show is the same comedy skit.

Right now we have:

Omega/Mox/Death Triangle/Impact feud
Thunder Rosa vs Britt Baker
Jade Cargill/Red Velvet/Shaq/Cody
Darby/Sting/Team Taz
Womens Tournament
MJF/Jericho/IC
Kingston/Archer
Bucks/Good Brothers
FTR/Jurassic Express 
Miro/Best Friends 

Where's the overbearing comedy on the show outside of Miro/Best Friends? Silver I guess? He barely gets air time and when he does its with other members of DO. Its actually less comedy than the Attitude Era if you're not being biased. A lot of the mid card back then was comedy and you only really got serious when it was main event time. 

Take this card from Backlash 1999 for example. Was the bolded not all comedy acts or feuds? This is more comedy than any AEW PPV card. Take any Attitude Era card in comparison and itll most likely be the same thing. 

*Nicole Bass and Val Venis defeated D'Lo Brown and Ivory * 
*Droz and Prince Albert defeated Too Much (Brian Christopher and Scott Taylor) * 
Kane defeated Big Boss Man (with Test) 
*Viscera defeated Test* (with Big Boss Man) 
The Ministry of Darkness (Bradshaw, Faarooq and Mideon) defeated The Brood (Christian, Edge and Gangrel) 
*Al Snow (with Head) defeated Hardcore Holly 
The Godfather (c) defeated Goldust (with The Blue Meanie) * 
The New Age Outlaws (Billy Gunn and Road Dogg) defeated Jeff Jarrett and Owen Hart (with Debra) 
Mankind defeated Big Show 
Triple H (with Chyna) defeated X-Pac 
The Undertaker (with Paul Bearer) defeated Ken Shamrock 
Stone Cold Steve Austin (c) defeated The Rock

OC had a feud with Jericho which was terrible all around but since then he has been cooled off drastically. This is the perfect scenario for a fan who doesn't like OC but you're still choosing to hold the company at gunpoint for the OC push?


----------



## rich110991

It’s a shame.

Even with their flaws, it’s still miles better than the WWE. The fact that nearly 2 million people watch RAW and over 2 million watch Smackdown is really hard to understand.


----------



## K4L318

Pippen94 said:


> Had nothing to do with that. No high profile matches promoted this week & show in holding pattern till Beach Break.


I couldnt see the first 30 minutes, my cable was blacked out.


----------



## 3venflow

The comedy stuff is exaggerated on here. There's been very few outright comedy segments of late, especially since Cassidy's prominence was reduced.

Last night's show for example was pretty much all serious, in-ring and out of ring. There were a few light hearted moments, but most of the content was mature. Look at Sting/Darby, Moxley, PAC and Arn/Cody/Red Velvet, Team Taz segments. Most of them had a dark setting (Sting/Darby in a warehouse, Mox and Team Taz outdoors, PAC at that place he's been at before) and adult language and presentation.

Kingston vs. Archer was a serious, pretty violent match with a pensioner (Jake) beaten up and dragged on to the rampway.

MJF/Jericho vs. Varsity Blonds was a serious match.

Hangman vs. Nemeth was a serious match and even Hardy, one of the goofiest characters in AEW since his arrival, cut a serious promo to try and recruit Hangman after.

The only segment you might call comedy was Miro, Kip, Penelope and Chuck Taylor discussing the wedding. But it wasn't that bad (although I fear the wedding will be as pro wrestling weddings usually are).

Jungle Boy vs. Harwood was a serious match and had Marko Stunt sent to the back. The wrestlers handcuffed at ringside had no impact until after the match when FTR did a major beatdown, including cutting Luchasaurus' mask.

Britt vs. Shanna was a serious match including Thunder Rosa's run-in after it.

Sammy/MJF confrontation backstage was not in the slightest bit comedic. A far cry from Vegas.

There was a hint of fooling around from the Good Brothers about beating up Moxley, but there was absolutely nothing wrong with it.

And then the main event + its aftermath with Moxley spiking Omega was serious except for the light hearted stuff with Silver and Gallows, which was in-ring entertainment, not shitty comedy.

There wasn't an abundance of goofiness. It was a pretty mature show both in the ring and out of the ring. There have been times that AEW has leant too much towards the absurd, but I've seen less and less of that lately, especially since the IC returned from Vegas and the Elite Deletion match.


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Had nothing to do with that. No high profile matches promoted this week & show in holding pattern till Beach Break.


You have to be trolling at this point. The ratings generally lag a week behind with the possible exception of a special edition episode. Even their anniversary show followed in the lag model. Everyone who saw last week's episode and has a basic understanding of logic knew this week would go down.


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> Nobody is arguing that, the only thing some of us are saying is that the 15min black screen probably took 15-25K viewers.


Who had a black screen for 15 minutes? I honestly do not know the details.


----------



## Prosper

Two Sheds said:


> Who had a black screen for 15 minutes? I honestly do not know the details.


Supposedly most of the East Coast had a black screen for 10-25 minutes at the beginning of the show. AEW uploaded the entire Archer/Kingston match on Youtube for those that missed it.


----------



## La Parka

Prosper said:


> You're counting OC as doing main event stuff though when he hasn't. The main event scene has only consisted of Moxley, Omega, Cody, Jericho, Hangman, Kingston, Archer, and PAC thus far. All of it has been serious type content. The only consistent comedy on Dynamite comes from OC. You're taking a few instances of comedy and blowing them up to make it seem like the whole show is the same comedy skit.
> 
> Right now we have:
> 
> Omega/Mox/Death Triangle/Impact feud
> Thunder Rosa vs Britt Baker
> Jade Cargill/Red Velvet/Shaq/Cody
> Darby/Sting/Team Taz
> Womens Tournament
> MJF/Jericho/IC
> Kingston/Archer
> Bucks/Good Brothers
> FTR/Jurassic Express
> Miro/Best Friends
> 
> Where's the overbearing comedy on the show outside of Miro/Best Friends? Silver I guess? He barely gets air time and when he does its with other members of DO. Its actually less comedy than the Attitude Era if you're not being biased. A lot of the mid card back then was comedy and you only really got serious when it was main event time.
> 
> Take this card from Backlash 1999 for example. Was the bolded not all comedy acts or feuds? This is more comedy than any AEW PPV card. Take any Attitude Era card in comparison and itll most likely be the same thing.
> 
> *Nicole Bass and Val Venis defeated D'Lo Brown and Ivory
> Droz and Prince Albert defeated Too Much (Brian Christopher and Scott Taylor) *
> Kane defeated Big Boss Man (with Test)
> *Viscera defeated Test* (with Big Boss Man)
> The Ministry of Darkness (Bradshaw, Faarooq and Mideon) defeated The Brood (Christian, Edge and Gangrel)
> *Al Snow (with Head) defeated Hardcore Holly
> The Godfather (c) defeated Goldust (with The Blue Meanie) *
> The New Age Outlaws (Billy Gunn and Road Dogg) defeated Jeff Jarrett and Owen Hart (with Debra)
> Mankind defeated Big Show
> Triple H (with Chyna) defeated X-Pac
> The Undertaker (with Paul Bearer) defeated Ken Shamrock
> Stone Cold Steve Austin (c) defeated The Rock
> 
> OC had a feud with Jericho which was terrible all around but since then he has been cooled off drastically. This is the perfect scenario for a fan who doesn't like OC but you're still choosing to hold the company at gunpoint for the OC push?


OC had matches with those in the main event scene and competed in a high stakes ladder match which would go on to determine a main event match and made a complete joke of the whole thing. If Orange Cassidy wasn't in marquee matches, there wouldn't be any issue. All of those example you had of comedy characters were either on heat, facing a lower card guy or went under 5 mins. (also a large amount of the talent listed were significantly more talented and less silly than today's comedy's acts, which made the experience a hell of a lot more enjoyable to the viewer) 

Full gear 2020 vs John Silver went 9 mins (a little long) but would've overall been fine.... if they didn't have Matt Hardy and Sammy go 20 mins in a comedy supernatural bullshit match. 

All out 2020 vs Jericho nothing was saving this. The entire concept of the feud the entire match was a disaster. Having your first world champion fight a comedy act would be the equivalent to having Austin face naked Mideon. This show also featured the tooth and nail match. 

Revolution 2020 - A popular match with Pac but one that didn't really do Pac any favors. Pac was a sadistic heel that should've destroyed everything that moved. Taking 13 mins to beat a guy fuckin around did not help his character. 

OC / Comedy wrestling is only one of AEW's problems. Outside of comedy you have matches that go way too long, way too many gymnastic wrestling style matches, your main storyline s a partnership with a company that has less twitch viewers than a girl doing an ASMR channel and might be the only company that makes both WWE and AEW blush at how ridiculous stories can get.


----------



## .christopher.

La Parka said:


> This isn't anything like the attitude era and the ratings would testify to that.
> 
> I am hardly "investing" time into it. (Apparently not many others are either). I just find it comical that the same people that proclaim every week that the show is really great and everyone who is critical of the show are out of touch old people who are stuck in 1980 are now going to have to find different ways to justify why AEW continues to do poorly in the ratings.


I've noticed two things.

1. The people who thought AEW was the drizzling shits to begin with still do.

2. The people who enjoyed it to begin with - though not on that obsessive level like the hardcores - are now realising that AEW is pretty rubbish.

They're not making any new fans and are already killing off the ones that are giving them chance after chance.


----------



## K4L318

Prosper said:


> *Supposedly most of the East Coast had a black screen for 10-25 minutes at the beginning of the show*. AEW uploaded the entire Archer/Kingston match on Youtube for those that missed it.


so it wasn't just me.
and ya kats complaining bout ratings this week? 
nah Im out. Catch ya later.😂


----------



## 3venflow

.christopher. said:


> They're not making any new fans and are already killing off the ones that are giving them chance after chance.


But they're not (re: the second point). Some weeks are up, some weeks are down, but generally speaking the ratings level out and have done since after the first few shows except for one period. The fan base does not seem to be growing or shrinking to any real degree. You can't just say this stuff to back up your personal dislike of the product without looking at the data.

The only clear sustained drop was last year during the pandemic when from April to June seven of the 13 episodes did below 700,000 and the demo also dropped quite sharply to as low as 0.22. Here you could definitely have made the argument that Dynamite was losing popularity because it was a pretty sustained drop. But after that it recovered and there has been no sustained drop since then. Unless something major is going on in the world, Dynamite is almost guaranteed to be in the 700-900k range every week. It's stable and fares well in the key demo, which will please WarnerMedia who see it rank every week in the cable charts and are adding a second show soon on one of their networks.

Industry insiders expected 400-500,000 from Dynamite which they did and continue to surpass. On the other hand, it's certainly true they aren't gain any momentum, but they are not losing viewers as a trend like WWE RAW has been. Stability is not a bad thing in today's world and with live TV ratings falling.


----------



## Prosper

La Parka said:


> OC had matches with those in the main event scene and competed in a high stakes ladder match which would go on to determine a main event match and made a complete joke of the whole thing. If Orange Cassidy wasn't in marquee matches, there wouldn't be any issue. All of those example you had of comedy characters were either on heat, facing a lower card guy or went under 5 mins. (also a large amount of the talent listed were significantly more talented and less silly than today's comedy's acts, which made the experience a hell of a lot more enjoyable to the viewer)


So Al Snow running around with a fake head is significantly better than a guy with his hands in his pocket? They're both equally as bad. I understand that OC ruined the ladder match for you but I didn't see it as a big deal afterwards. Top stars fight comedy acts in WWF/WWE. Remember The Rock vs Hurricane? Was that not as unbelievable as OC/Jericho?



La Parka said:


> Full gear 2020 vs John Silver went 9 mins (a little long) but would've overall been fine.... if they didn't have Matt Hardy and Sammy go 20 mins in a comedy supernatural bullshit match.


The only reason that match happened was because of Matt and Sammy's bad history. Every other match they have had was serious. All the fighting they did on Dynamite was some of the most brutal stuff during the pandemic era. Meaning that it was a serious feud that had to take a wrong turn because of the circumstances of not wanting them in the ring together again. I don't think you can use that match as an example. Better that then to just drop the feud like it never happened.



La Parka said:


> All out 2020 vs Jericho nothing was saving this. The entire concept of the feud the entire match was a disaster. Having your first world champion fight a comedy act would be the equivalent to having Austin face naked Mideon. This show also featured the tooth and nail match.


Yes this was all terrible. I hated the feud just as much as you did. Up and down the card though featured a lot less comedy than any Attitude Era card.



La Parka said:


> Revolution 2020 - A popular match with Pac but one that didn't really do Pac any favors. Pac was a sadistic heel that should've destroyed everything that moved. Taking 13 mins to beat a guy fuckin around did not help his character.


I'm a huge PAC mark so I agree with this. Loved the shit out of that match though.



La Parka said:


> OC / Comedy wrestling is only one of AEW's problems. Outside of comedy you have matches that go way too long, way too many gymnastic wrestling style matches, your main storyline s a partnership with a company that has less twitch viewers than a girl doing an ASMR channel and might be the only company that makes both WWE and AEW blush at how ridiculous stories can get.


Matches do tend to go long but after last night's show featuring shorter matches and Cody getting legitimately getting yelled at, I think that may be changing shortly.

The gymnastics wrestling is only in the tag division. There is no over-abundance of flipping in the mid-card, the women's division, or the main event scene. Is that not a good ratio of flips to no flips?

The main event story is more than that now. Its about Moxley and Death Triangle, its about the Bullet Club reunion, and its also about Kenny collecting belts. Partnering with Impact as a story point is probably at the bottom of the list as far as what the main event scene is about right now. This will all then lead to a possible Blood and Guts match, Hangman's redemption, or anything else they want to do with it. And Kenny Omega has been doing an awesome job so far.


----------



## Alright_Mate

Inconsistent shows, will make for inconsistent ratings.

When AEW went through their good spell around the summer period last year, the ratings matched the quality of the shows, they thoroughly deserved 900k+.

Now they are building on zero momentum, quality of shows are all over the place, one week they are good, then they are average, then they are bad, hence why they keep fluctuating between 700k-800k mark.

There’s been decent moments recently, but I have to say nothing has really been must see television, that’s why they keep doing pretty average numbers.


----------



## .christopher.

@3venflow , I didn't say they had killed off a lot of fans. You can read posts on this very forum of people starting to get fed up with them, and when you liked AEW to begin with, somehow making said people lose interest is very impressive considering how loyal the fanbase is.

That, coupled with the fact that they haven't made any new fans, shows you that people who are critical of AEW aren't as out of touch as portrayed, which was the initial point.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Much better episode this week and a much lower rating. Too bad.


----------



## Joe Gill

I also had the black screen for 15 minutes... still watched it over NXT


----------



## Mr316

Perhaps AEW fans don’t realize it but Dynamite is a very boring show. They’ll never win new viewers. There’s too much great content out there for someone to become a wrestling fan in 2021. There’s nothing cool about being a pro wrestling fan. There’s nothing cool about watching The Dark Order or Marko Stunt. AEW will never grow.


----------



## RapShepard

They still made top 10 as a company they're doing fine.


RubberbandGoat said:


> Once the pandemic is over. The shows will be must see


It's been a year that shouldn't still be trotted out as an excuse


----------



## Mr316

RapShepard said:


> They still made top 10 as a company they're doing fine. It's been a year that shouldn't still be trotted out as an excuse


They’re top 10 because there’s absolutely nothing anymore on cable except the news and sports. Everyone is on Netflix.


----------



## RapShepard

Mr316 said:


> They’re top 10 because there’s absolutely nothing anymore on cable except the news and sports. Everyone is on Netflix.


You can try and downplay it, but they still average out to being a top 10 show on cable the majority of weeks. They can only compete against what's available.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Inconsistent shows = inconsistent ratings
I think they are going to sign some new wrestlers soon because they are panicking about the ratings. They need to sign some writers and old school minds for booking.


----------



## Klitschko

Mr316 said:


> Perhaps AEW fans don’t realize it but Dynamite is a very boring show. They’ll never win new viewers. There’s too much great content out there for someone to become a wrestling fan in 2021. There’s nothing cool about being a pro wrestling fan. There’s nothing cool about watching The Dark Order or Marko Stunt. AEW will never grow.


Ok. I really hate to be that guy, but I dont get what your point is when 100% of your posts and threads are shitting on the company. We get it, you think they suck. Fuck AEW. But Jesus christ dude, at least other people that talk shit about the company offer constructive criticism and find some things to enjoy. You know that "must defend AEW" phrase that gets tossed at fanboys that pretend they can never do any wrong, well you are the textbook definition of "must attack AEW".


----------



## Wolf Mark

Only 14 thousand of difference with NXT wow.


----------



## Pippen94

Blackout probably had impact

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1354901844422578177


----------



## Garty

Two Sheds said:


> You have to be trolling at this point. The ratings generally lag a week behind with the possible exception of a special edition episode. Even their anniversary show followed in the lag model. Everyone who saw last week's episode and has a basic understanding of logic knew this week would go down.


Yeah, I had to pick your post, huh?! 

I am 100% sure, that when the quarter-hour breakdowns are released, we'll see that the blackout was a contributing factor in their overall number. Being off-air for approximately 20-30 minutes (right from the beginning) will undoubtedly be the reason for the overall drop this week to last week and versus NXT.

In this age of media being at everyone's fingertips, trust me 2S, there is *NOT ONE* person/viewer that is going to sit there and stare at a blank screen for 20-30 minutes, no matter what type of show it is. Can they switch back and forth? Of course, but the longer it goes, the more viewers they lose. Hell, people can't even take their eyes off their phones for a minute without feeling sudden withdrawal symptoms.

As for the numbers themselves, AEW still won the night, but NXT did gain a lot of viewers, if only for one night. That's why it has to be an anomaly, there is no other possible explanation. It's not only going to be 25,000 - 50,000 viewers not watching because of the outage, but more like 100,000 - 125,000+ viewers (East-Coast ONLY), when you average it out for the remainder of the show. AEW is lucky to have the rating they got, it could have been worse. They were in a pretty deep hole they had to dig out of from the start and again, that's indicative to the overall numbers for both shows.


----------



## One Shed

Garty is All Elite said:


> Yeah, I had to pick your post, huh?!
> 
> I am 100% sure, that when the quarter-hour breakdowns are released, we'll see that the blackout was a contributing factor in their overall number. Being off-air for approximately 20-30 minutes (right from the beginning) will undoubtedly be the reason for the overall drop this week to last week and versus NXT.
> 
> In this age of media being at everyone's fingertips, trust me 2S, there is *NOT ONE* person/viewer that is going to sit there and stare at a blank screen for 20-30 minutes, no matter what type of show it is. Can they switch back and forth? Of course, but the longer it goes, the more viewers they lose. Hell, people can't even take their eyes off their phones for a minute without feeling sudden withdrawal symptoms.
> 
> As for the numbers themselves, AEW still won the night, but NXT did gain a lot of viewers, if only for one night. That's why it has to be an anomaly, there is no other possible explanation. It's not only going to be 25,000 - 50,000 viewers not watching because of the outage, but more like 100,000 - 125,000+ viewers (East-Coast ONLY), when you average it out for the remainder of the show. AEW is lucky to have the rating they got, it could have been worse. They were in a pretty deep hole they had to dig out of from the start and again, that's indicative to the overall numbers for both shows.


Time after time after time the week after they put on a piss poor show the rating takes a dive, and every time excuses are made. At some point even the completely blind religious types on here will hopefully actually look at the overall data and trends. We JUST went through this with Sting. He debuted unannounced but on a heavily hyped special episode and did a good rating. Then, the NEXT week popped a huge rating (a NON SPECIAL episode but the one AFTER Sting debuted). However, that episode sucked ass, and consequently the week after that dropped off huge.

This is how the ratings work generally speaking. Get people talking positively about something great and more people tune in. Shit the bed, and the next week people tune out. It really is OK to admit a company can put on a poor show. The mental gymnastics being done on here to excuse poor episodes is beginning to rival the physical gymnastics on the actual show.


----------



## Dr. Middy

That was lower for AEW than I expected, which surprised me given that I thought the show was quite entertaining all the way through, with the lone exception being that Cody segment. 

I think a 10-15 min blackout for a ton of their viewers could have definitely suppressed that, but they were also coming off last week's show which was wasn't very noteworthy although it was solid. 

Beach Break should do well since the entire show is loaded and has been built for weeks now.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Cornette lost his last real job in wrestling for telling one of his jokes, which is 35 years old & no longer appropriate in today's world. He has no insight or relevancy to today's business


Cornette quit that job. The NWA aired the joke. Modern indy wrestling can thank Cornette for keeping it alive with the sale of ROH.

Oof at that rating, by the way. Looks like bdon was right.


----------



## Garty

Two Sheds said:


> Time after time after time the week after they put on a piss poor show the rating takes a dive, and every time excuses are made. At some point even the completely blind religious types on here will hopefully actually look at the overall data and trends. We JUST went through this with Sting. He debuted unannounced but on a heavily hyped special episode and did a good rating. Then, the NEXT week popped a huge rating (a NON SPECIAL episode but the one AFTER Sting debuted). However, that episode sucked ass, and consequently the week after that dropped off huge.
> 
> This is how the ratings work generally speaking. Get people talking positively about something great and more people tune in. Shit the bed, and the next week people tune out. It really is OK to admit a company can put on a poor show. The mental gymnastics being done on here to excuse poor episodes is beginning to rival the physical gymnastics on the actual show.


But what's the barometer for what is considered a "bad show" and a "good show"? In your opinion? In my opinion? Of the majority opinion? Of the minority opinion? Of the AEW fans? Of the non-AEW fans?

No one is creating something out of nothing. If an outside problem, or unforeseen circumstance is the primary cause of said argument, then shouldn't it be argued? If you want to say what you've been saying for months, "numbers go up and down, we all know why..." I'll meet you half-way on that, but in this particular scenario, there are definitely problems that were out of their control this time. As I said earlier, let's leave it until tomorrow's quarterly breakdowns?


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> Time after time after time the week after they put on a piss poor show the rating takes a dive, and every time excuses are made. At some point even the completely blind religious types on here will hopefully actually look at the overall data and trends. We JUST went through this with Sting. He debuted unannounced but on a heavily hyped special episode and did a good rating. Then, the NEXT week popped a huge rating (a NON SPECIAL episode but the one AFTER Sting debuted). However, that episode sucked ass, and consequently the week after that dropped off huge.
> 
> This is how the ratings work generally speaking. Get people talking positively about something great and more people tune in. Shit the bed, and the next week people tune out. It really is OK to admit a company can put on a poor show. The mental gymnastics being done on here to excuse poor episodes is beginning to rival the physical gymnastics on the actual show.


For whatever reason aew build to special episodes of dynamite & given last night was not one of these shows or heavily promoted it was easy to predict numbers wouldn't be as high.
Ppl should stop overreacting to one week & declaring company will go out of business. For weeks prior aew has had triple the demo of wwe Wednesday. Things fluctuate week to week


----------



## The Wood

rich110991 said:


> It’s a shame.
> 
> Even with their flaws, it’s still miles better than the WWE. The fact that nearly 2 million people watch RAW and over 2 million watch Smackdown is really hard to understand.


SmackDown is better than Dynamite. Roman Reigns is the best thing in wrestling and you usually get a Daniel Bryan match. The level of work is FAR superior. The show has some silliness (Otis), but for the most part, it’s actually an inoffensive wrestling program by contemporary standards.

Raw being watched by more people is sad, but it’s what AEW have sowed fkr



3venflow said:


> But they're not (re: the second point). Some weeks are up, some weeks are down, but generally speaking the ratings level out and have done since after the first few shows except for one period. The fan base does not seem to be growing or shrinking to any real degree. You can't just say this stuff to back up your personal dislike of the product without looking at the data.
> 
> The only clear sustained drop was last year during the pandemic when from April to June seven of the 13 episodes did below 700,000 and the demo also dropped quite sharply to as low as 0.22. Here you could definitely have made the argument that Dynamite was losing popularity because it was a pretty sustained drop. But after that it recovered and there has been no sustained drop since then. Unless something major is going on in the world, Dynamite is almost guaranteed to be in the 700-900k range every week. It's stable and fares well in the key demo, which will please WarnerMedia who see it rank every week in the cable charts and are adding a second show soon on one of their networks.
> 
> Industry insiders expected 400-500,000 from Dynamite which they did and continue to surpass. On the other hand, it's certainly true they aren't gain any momentum, but they are not losing viewers as a trend like WWE RAW has been. Stability is not a bad thing in today's world and with live TV ratings falling.


Industry insiders did NOT expect that. Meltzer threw out that number without context, probably based on nothing to make AEW seem more impressive. He justified it with some bullshit maths about B/R Live subscriptions.



Prosper said:


> So Al Snow running around with a fake head is significantly better than a guy with his hands in his pocket? They're both equally as bad. I understand that OC ruined the ladder match for you but I didn't see it as a big deal afterwards. Top stars fight comedy acts in WWF/WWE. Remember The Rock vs Hurricane? Was that not as unbelievable as OC/Jericho?
> 
> 
> 
> The only reason that match happened was because of Matt and Sammy's bad history. Every other match they have had was serious. All the fighting they did on Dynamite was some of the most brutal stuff during the pandemic era. Meaning that it was a serious feud that had to take a wrong turn because of the circumstances of not wanting them in the ring together again. I don't think you can use that match as an example. Better that then to just drop the feud like it never happened.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes this was all terrible. I hated the feud just as much as you did. Up and down the card though featured a lot less comedy than any Attitude Era card.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a huge PAC mark so I agree with this. Loved the shit out of that match though.
> 
> 
> 
> Matches do tend to go long but after last night's show featuring shorter matches and Cody getting legitimately getting yelled at, I think that may be changing shortly.
> 
> The gymnastics wrestling is only in the tag division. There is no over-abundance of flipping in the mid-card, the women's division, or the main event scene. Is that not a good ratio of flips to no flips?
> 
> The main event story is more than that now. Its about Moxley and Death Triangle, its about the Bullet Club reunion, and its also about Kenny collecting belts. Partnering with Impact as a story point is probably at the bottom of the list as far as what the main event scene is about right now. This will all then lead to a possible Blood and Guts match, Hangman's redemption, or anything else they want to do with it. And Kenny Omega has been doing an awesome job so far.


Al Snow was a grown ass man who used a mannequin’s head as a weapon. The Hurricane was also a grown ass man. He didn’t actually freeze The Rock with his breath in that match. That would be AEW’s flavour.



RapShepard said:


> They still made top 10 as a company they're doing fine. It's been a year that shouldn't still be trotted out as an excuse





RapShepard said:


> You can try and downplay it, but they still average out to being a top 10 show on cable the majority of weeks. They can only compete against what's available.


I don’t think anyone really puts any stock into Showbuzz Daily or the 18-39 demo for wrestling. They’re quite shit in actual viewership.


----------



## One Shed

Garty is All Elite said:


> But what's the barometer for what is considered a "bad show" and a "good show"? In your opinion? In my opinion? Of the majority opinion? Of the minority opinion? Of the AEW fans? Of the non-AEW fans?
> 
> No one is creating something out of nothing. If an outside problem, or unforeseen circumstance is the primary cause of said argument, then shouldn't it be argued? If you want to say what you've been saying for months, "numbers go up and down, we all know why..." I'll meet you half-way on that, but in this particular scenario, there are definitely problems that were out of their control this time. As I said earlier, let's leave it until tomorrow's quarterly breakdowns?


Yes, like most things in life, the causes are indeed multivariable. But one consistent thing that seems to always be one of the variables is that episodes generally received to be poor are followed by a decline in ratings the week after. Now, it does not personally matter to me if most people like or do not like something, but it makes complete sense that something a majority of people think is a poor episode would then be followed by less people watching the next episode, yes? The opposite is true too. When word of mouth spreads that something good happened, more people will tune in the following week. It just seems pretty clear to me. In no way did I mean that there is ONE variable in the increase or decrease in ratings, only that it is a fairly consistent one that makes complete logical sense.

Of course a station blackout would affect things, and that would be one of the variables here. Do we know how many users it affected? Did it affect the entire TNT East Coast broadcast? Only some cable providers? Like I said, a poor episode is going to negatively impact the following week's rating. A blackout ALSO happening a week after a poor episode is going to impact the rating even more so.

Edit: OK so I spent a few minutes to research this blackout. It seems it affected Hulu, YouTube TV, and the live stream on the TNT app. It did not appear to affect any cable or satellite systems which are the vast, vast majority of what makes up the ratings (we can argue about how many people actually do stream the program separately, but this is purely about how the rating is calculated).


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> For whatever reason aew build to special episodes of dynamite & given last night was not one of these shows or heavily promoted it was easy to predict numbers wouldn't be as high.
> Ppl should stop overreacting to one week & declaring company will go out of business. For weeks prior aew has had triple the demo of wwe Wednesday. Things fluctuate week to week


No one is overreacting to one episode. For myself, I am pointing out trends that we have been seeing. Poorly received episodes are generally followed the next week by lower ratings regardless of the quality of that episode. The reverse is also true as I pointed out with Sting's debut. The non-special episode after he debuted was higher than the special Winter is Coming episode where he did debut because of the week of lag. Everyone heard about Sting and got excited so they tuned in to see what he would do. They followed that up with a bad episode so the week after that tanked. It is not just some random roller coaster. I have never said they are in danger of going out of business or anything close to that. Things do fluctuate week to week, but my point is the response to that should not be "well, who really knows why? No need to think about it!" One reason is pretty clear. Their quality is inconsistent and schizophrenic and the ratings reflect that. I would hope a company would look at that, learn from that, and improve.


----------



## RapShepard

The Wood said:


> I don’t think anyone really puts any stock into Showbuzz Daily or the 18-39 demo for wrestling. They’re quite shit in actual viewership.


While you're right in the fact wrestling's demo isn't as profitable as most shows demo. But you're wrong in AEW's demo and viewership doesn't matter. Look I get you don't like how AEW is booked, and think it could be done better. Thus possibly leading to renewed interest in wrestling. I get that believe me. The reality is though, as of now they're doing well. Are they doing as good as the "anything besides WWE crowd" likes to pretend, no. But they also are doing better than your "well they're really failing and here's why" crowd cares to admit. Now they'd be smart to start improving sooner rather than later to ensure a long long term future. But you arguing in real time will be ignored because your arguments, while I see the merit, don't hold immediate weight right now. Your arguments make more sense if say they're doing the same a year or 2 from now.


----------



## bdon

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1354898355776876557
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Of course they tuned out after starting last week’s show with a fucking 8 year old and Luther. Anyone could hav predicted that.


fabi1982 said:


> Oh and btw I think @bdon won the bet with whoever he fought about. I remember someone telling bdon this week wouldnt go below 800k and bdon said it will.
> So TELL EM BDON!!


I will continue telling em, but it doesn’t mean anyone will listen or admit defeat.

@LifeInCattleClass still won’t admit I was right.


----------



## The Wood

RapShepard said:


> While you're right in the fact wrestling's demo isn't as profitable as most shows demo. But you're wrong in AEW's demo and viewership doesn't matter. Look I get you don't like how AEW is booked, and think it could be done better. Thus possibly leading to renewed interest in wrestling. I get that believe me. The reality is though, as of now they're doing well. Are they doing as good as the "anything besides WWE crowd" likes to pretend, no. But they also are doing better than your "well they're really failing and here's why" crowd cares to admit. Now they'd be smart to start improving sooner rather than later to ensure a long long term future. But you arguing in real time will be ignored because your arguments, while I see the merit, don't hold immediate weight right now. Your arguments make more sense if say they're doing the same a year or 2 from now.


Perfectly reasonable response. I’ll just clarify that I don’t think it’s that the demo isn’t important at all. I just don’t think it is as important as Meltzer and the like says, and that other metrics (without that demo and outside it) matter more.

But great post, as usual.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

It’s all my fault, because I fell asleep to Forged in Fire and missed the whole show this week. 8 quarters, that’s gotta be at least 80,000 viewers right there, right? I’ll try to stay awake next week, Tony.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> That was lower for AEW than I expected, which surprised me given that I thought the show was quite entertaining all the way through, with the lone exception being that Cody segment.
> 
> I think a 10-15 min blackout for a ton of their viewers could have definitely suppressed that, but they were also coming off last week's show which was wasn't very noteworthy although it was solid.
> 
> Beach Break should do well since the entire show is loaded and has been built for weeks now.


Each week’s ratings are more a reflection of previous week’s shows than the current. More viewers get turned off (or on) by what they’ve already seen. If last week’s show was garbage, I’d say that translates to a lot of people not watching this week’s show, no matter how entertaining this week’s show really was. If they’re already watching this week, they’ll most likely stick around, barring some unusually horrendous segment. Word of mouth gets around that this week’s show was pretty good, curiosity will probably bring a few more of those viewers back next week.

All that being said, this fucking pandemic is wreaking havoc with everybody and everything. I don’t think any real relevant conclusions can be drawn from any ratings analysis since last March, because everybody’s habits have changed and continue to change until this situation eventually settles down to something resembling normal again. JMHFO.


----------



## Klitschko

The Wood said:


> SmackDown is better than Dynamite. Roman Reigns is the best thing in wrestling and you usually get a Daniel Bryan match. The level of work is FAR superior. The show has some silliness (Otis), but for the most part, it’s actually an inoffensive wrestling program by contemporary standards.


Completely agree here. Smackdown is probably the best wrestling show on television right now. Like you said, Roman is the best thing in wrestling and the shows midcard is great as well. Daniel Bryan matches, Big E is a good intercontinental champion and there is some fun stuff with their women's division and tag division currently. AEW is better then NXT and RAW, but Smackdown tops them all in my opinion.

Any thoughts on next weeks rating @bdon?


----------



## P Thriller

Ratings are usually more of a reflection of the previous week's show than the current weeks. AEW has a horrible show last week and paid for it this week (Blackout probably didn't help either). Next week they'll probably have a little better ratings cause this week's show was better.


----------



## Garty

The Wood said:


> I don’t think anyone really puts any stock into Showbuzz Daily or the 18-39 demo for wrestling. They’re quite shit in actual viewership.


Woody, you're constantly here every week, dismissing anything and everything that both Meltzer and/or Showbuzz Daily reports, so other than disagreeing with what they have to say because of... what I don't know... where do you get your "facts" from and why do they seem to be so far slanted against everyone else being wrong and you being right? I've said it dozens of times, you've predicted/projected a lot of things about AEW and *NOTHING* you've said has happened. I'm starting to think you may be Jim Cornette?! 

FYI... Like Meltzer, the guys from Showbuzz Daily, have a long history of working in their respective field, backed up by using the tools they have for many, many years.

This is the bio of the the two former TV/Film Executives who run the website:

*Mitch Metcalf and Mitch Salem bring their combined 40 years of expertise as senior entertainment executives to ShowbuzzDaily.com, a website that features everything you want to know about the movies: up-to-the-minute box office predictions and analysis, along with the latest reviews. ShowbuzzDaily will bring you projections and analysis of every opening weekend and ultimate domestic and international grosses, as well as trends that affect studios, genres and release schedules, all combined with reviews of the newest films in release, titles on home video and classic cinema.*
_
*MITCH METCALF *has been tracking every US film release of over 500 screens (almost 2000 movies and counting) since the storied weekend of May 20, 1994, when Maverick and Beverly Hills Cop 3 inspired countless aficionados to devote their lives to the art of cinema. Prior to that, he studied Politics and Economics at Princeton in order to prepare for his dream of working in television, not yet having discovered that a degree in the Dark Arts would have been more useful. He has been Head of West Coast Research at ABC, then moved to NBC in 2000 and became Head of Scheduling for 11 years.

*MITCH SALEM *has cunningly pretended for some time to be a senior business affairs executive and attorney for such TV companies as NBC, USA/SyFy/Bravo, ABC and BermanBraun Productions (and before that, a student at the NYU School of Law), while actually indulging in a more or less nonstop bacchanal of moviegoing. During this time, he has been a film critic for the Brooklyn Free Press, and also co-wrote an episode of the television series “Felicity.” No, really. He is currently consulting, which he swears is not a euphemism._

Variety, is the only trusted magazine of all things business, both inside and outside the TV and film industry. I even read it on occasion. So let's compare what Variety reports on a nightly basis, with what Showbuzz Daily reports:

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Fast-Demo-2021-Jan-26-TUE.png

TV Ratings: ‘NCIS’ Leads Tuesday Night for the Second Week in a Row

Now, do you see ANY difference in what has been reported by Variety and what has been reported by Showbuzz Daily? Yeah... probably not. There's no bias, no spin, no manufacturing, no manipulation, no skewing and most of all, no bullshit. You can believe what you want to believe and read what you want to read, but this is the be-all end-all of discussing TV ratings. Maybe, just maybe, you can concede that part of your "fact-checking" must be ill-informed?


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

That's unfortunately what ends up happening when last week's show was pretty bad. Hopefully the ratings bounce back next week.


----------



## 3venflow

Cody/Arn/Red Velvet segment was the peak quarter on Dynamite this week (788k) and Red Velvet's promo was the most watched minute.


----------



## rbl85

AEW got a pretty good retention of viewers because the show opened with 760K and ended the lowest quarter was 705K
The Cody segment did the best rating

NXT highest quarter was the Q1 with 832K but the lowest was 625K.

I never really talked about it before but it's not the first time that NXT start strong but is unable to keep the viewers while AEW does a better job to keep the viewers watching the 2 hours.


----------



## Post-Modern Devil

Copypasting the quarter results from the reddit thread:

P2+ / P18-49
*AEW (734k, 0.29)*
Q1: 760k / 366k (Kingston vs. Archer, Moxley's promo)
Q2: 731k / 396k (Sting/Allin's promo, Jericho & MJF vs. Pillman & Garrison)
Q3: 788k / 424k (PAC's promo, Cody's segment)
Q4: 737k / 377k (Page vs. Nemeth)
Q5: 736k / 385k (Jungle Boy vs. Harwood)
Q6: 712k / 359k (ending of JB vs. Harwood, Team Taz's promo, beginning of Britt vs. Shanna)
Q7: 715k / 358k (ending of Britt vs. Shayna, MJF/Guevara's promo, pre-main event's promo)
Q8: 705k / 360k (Young Bucks & Good Brothers vs. Dark Order)
*NXT (720k, 0.21)*
Q1: 832k / 356k (MSK vs. Dain & Maverick)
Q2: 820k / 324k (Stallion's promo, Dakota & Raquel vs. Aliyah & Jessi)
Q3: 785k / 296k (The Way's promo, Scarlett's promo, Rust vs. Rios)
Q4: 717k / 255k (Balor/O'Reilly's promo, GYV vs. Ruff & Kushida)
Q5: 712K / 261k (ending of tag team match, Stallion's injury, Regal/LDF confrontation, Toni's interview)
Q6: 642k / 249k (Toni/Io/Mercedes brawl, Scott's promo and beginning of Scott vs. Reed)
Q7: 625k / 249k (ending of Scott vs. Reed, Ciampa/Thatcher's promo)
Q8: 629k / 222k (Balor & O'Reilly vs. Lorcan & Burch)
Notes :
NXT peaked in every demo and overall viewers in Q1
AEW peaked in 18-49 and overall viewers during Cody's segment and the overall high minute was during Red Velvet's promo
AEW peaked in 18-34 during the main event


----------



## Klitschko

But I thought Cody wasn't a draw?


----------



## Prosper

Red Velvet highest minute to minute haha


----------



## Shock Street

Prosper said:


> Red Velvet highest minute to minute haha


And somehow still not on the roster on the website


----------



## Prosper

Shock Street said:


> And somehow still not on the roster on the website


She's not "All Elite" as of yet, she is on their Tier 1 deal where she is guaranteed a certain amount of dates and pay 

No way they don't sign her full time though after this per appearance deal is over


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Of course they tuned out after starting last week’s show with a fucking 8 year old and Luther. Anyone could hav predicted that.
> 
> I will continue telling em, but it doesn’t mean anyone will listen or admit defeat.
> 
> @LifeInCattleClass still won’t admit I was right.


why you tagging me?

i agreed with you 100%


----------



## Shock Street

Prosper said:


> She's not "All Elite" as of yet, she is on their Tier 1 deal where she is guaranteed a certain amount of dates and pay
> 
> No way they don't sign her full time though after this per appearance deal is over


Ah I thought I saw her get an All Elite post my bad. Honestly surprised Jade got one before her but it is what it is


----------



## Not Lying

Last Q's gotta hurt Bucks' ego


----------



## rbl85

The Definition of Technician said:


> Last Q's gotta hurt Bucks' ego


Not really they had the best 18-34 rating of the night.


----------



## Prosper

Klitschko said:


> Completely agree here. Smackdown is probably the best wrestling show on television right now. Like you said, Roman is the best thing in wrestling and the shows midcard is great as well. Daniel Bryan matches, Big E is a good intercontinental champion and there is some fun stuff with their women's division and tag division currently. AEW is better then NXT and RAW, but Smackdown tops them all in my opinion.
> 
> Any thoughts on next weeks rating @bdon?


I'd really like to debate you and whoever else thinks this on how SD is objectively the better show. Would be fun. May be against the rules though.


----------



## Not Lying

Prosper said:


> I'd really like to debate you and whoever else thinks this on how SD is objectively the better show. Would be fun. May be against the rules though.


SD was better than AEW for a while there with Sasha/Bayley, Rey/Seth/Murphy peaking and Roman/Jey/KO, as well as Sami/DB/Big E mid-card.

But they've fallen back in quality over the last month or so again, a lot of skippable moments.


----------



## Prosper

The Definition of Technician said:


> SD was better than AEW for a while there with Sasha/Bayley, Rey/Seth/Murphy peaking and Roman/Jey/KO, as well as Sami/DB/Big E mid-card.
> 
> But they've fallen back in quality over the last month or so again, a lot of skippable moments.


I did enjoy SD during that time. Roman/Jey was really good. Personally I thought Kingston/Moxley was just as good which went on simultaneously.

As far as overall quality, that's what I am mostly getting at as far as what I would like to debate with people. How is SD in the last year as a whole better than Dynamite in the last year?

If we are talking short stretches of time like the Jey/Roman and Sasha/Bayley feud then I guess I can understand how it was better during that time, but SD being better as a whole up and down the card over the last 14 months? I'd like to get a deeper understanding of what people objectively see there if that's what Klitschko and others who feel the same are getting at.


----------



## The Wood

Garty is All Elite said:


> Woody, you're constantly here every week, dismissing anything and everything that both Meltzer and/or Showbuzz Daily reports, so other than disagreeing with what they have to say because of... what I don't know... where do you get your "facts" from and why do they seem to be so far slanted against everyone else being wrong and you being right? I've said it dozens of times, you've predicted/projected a lot of things about AEW and *NOTHING* you've said has happened. I'm starting to think you may be Jim Cornette?!
> 
> FYI... Like Meltzer, the guys from Showbuzz Daily, have a long history of working in their respective field, backed up by using the tools they have for many, many years.
> 
> This is the bio of the the two former TV/Film Executives who run the website:
> 
> *Mitch Metcalf and Mitch Salem bring their combined 40 years of expertise as senior entertainment executives to ShowbuzzDaily.com, a website that features everything you want to know about the movies: up-to-the-minute box office predictions and analysis, along with the latest reviews. ShowbuzzDaily will bring you projections and analysis of every opening weekend and ultimate domestic and international grosses, as well as trends that affect studios, genres and release schedules, all combined with reviews of the newest films in release, titles on home video and classic cinema.*
> 
> _*MITCH METCALF *has been tracking every US film release of over 500 screens (almost 2000 movies and counting) since the storied weekend of May 20, 1994, when Maverick and Beverly Hills Cop 3 inspired countless aficionados to devote their lives to the art of cinema. Prior to that, he studied Politics and Economics at Princeton in order to prepare for his dream of working in television, not yet having discovered that a degree in the Dark Arts would have been more useful. He has been Head of West Coast Research at ABC, then moved to NBC in 2000 and became Head of Scheduling for 11 years.
> 
> *MITCH SALEM *has cunningly pretended for some time to be a senior business affairs executive and attorney for such TV companies as NBC, USA/SyFy/Bravo, ABC and BermanBraun Productions (and before that, a student at the NYU School of Law), while actually indulging in a more or less nonstop bacchanal of moviegoing. During this time, he has been a film critic for the Brooklyn Free Press, and also co-wrote an episode of the television series “Felicity.” No, really. He is currently consulting, which he swears is not a euphemism._
> 
> Variety, is the only trusted magazine of all things business, both inside and outside the TV and film industry. I even read it on occasion. So let's compare what Variety reports on a nightly basis, with what Showbuzz Daily reports:
> 
> http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Fast-Demo-2021-Jan-26-TUE.png
> 
> TV Ratings: ‘NCIS’ Leads Tuesday Night for the Second Week in a Row
> 
> Now, do you see ANY difference in what has been reported by Variety and what has been reported by Showbuzz Daily? Yeah... probably not. There's no bias, no spin, no manufacturing, no manipulation, no skewing and most of all, no bullshit. You can believe what you want to believe and read what you want to read, but this is the be-all end-all of discussing TV ratings. Maybe, just maybe, you can concede that part of your "fact-checking" must be ill-informed?


I’m not going to answer your question in full, because you honestly concern me. I will just say this: We live in 2021. Advertisers and other stakeholders are much more aware of diversity within the audience that goes beyond age. Ethnicity, education, orientation, social media presence, financial stability. Grab two people who are 18 from anywhere in the United States. You are bound to find a VAST valley of differences between them. Grouping all viewers together in terms of their age bracket is step one, _at best_. On its own, it is limiting and archaic.

This can be discerned with common sense. Nothing I am saying here is unreasonable and will likely ring true with people who give it some half-honest thought.

Hell, go to Nielsen page. Their actual one. Not an entertainment website and glorified gossip page. Go to their actual ones. You will barely find mention of the 18-49 demo. I haven’t been in ages, but I feel pretty confident in saying that. You just don’t see it because they are more interested in things like attracting and retaining Asian-American TV audiences, and things like that.

Even in a general sense, some networks target women, men that skewer younger and people who skewer older because of economic factors that have left them with more money and better access to programming than millennials. What you really want is an audience you can market to. That’s what this is all about. And wrestling fans are notoriously undesirable for that.


----------



## Klitschko

Prosper said:


> I'd really like to debate you and whoever else thinks this on how SD is objectively the better show. Would be fun. May be against the rules though.





The Definition of Technician said:


> SD was better than AEW for a while there with Sasha/Bayley, Rey/Seth/Murphy peaking and Roman/Jey/KO, as well as Sami/DB/Big E mid-card.
> 
> But they've fallen back in quality over the last month or so again, a lot of skippable moments.


I would love to debate as well @Prosper. Its like Definition said, Smackdown has taken a hit in quality the last few weeks, but I still feel that personally it's the best out of the shows. Dynamite is second to me. Then NXT and finally RAW.


----------



## TD Stinger

If we' ranking shows, for 2021 so far I would have SD as the top, NXT & AEW fighting for 2nd place, and Raw just being the dirt worst every week, lol.

I will say that I don't find any show "perfect" or "clicking on all cylinders" necessarily. They all have their flaws. Raw for example is just mostly flaws, while the other 3 bring really good things to the table but also have their issues IMO. But SD for me just has the best thing in wrestling with Roman and his stuff and they book the show around him which elevates the whole show. Have some other fun stuff and for me it's the best. But at the same time, NXT or AEW any given week could have a show that's easily the best.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Tbh I haven’t watched smack down for ages but maybe I will now it’s mania season.

i completely agree on your AEW opinion. Don’t watch NXT or RAW so can’t comment on them.

I really want AEW to do well but they just don’t keep me interested. I’ve always got it on but I lose attention.... for me the stories aren’t compelling enough. Also it’s not their fault but I really find it hard to watch without pops from the crowd. The fact they were the more atmospheric product out of them and WWE is what drew me to them.

The crowds can’t come back quick enough.


----------



## Prosper

Klitschko said:


> I would love to debate as well @Prosper. Its like Definition said, Smackdown has taken a hit in quality the last few weeks, but I still feel that personally it's the best out of the shows. Dynamite is second to me. Then NXT and finally RAW.





TD Stinger said:


> If we' ranking shows, for 2021 so far I would have SD as the top, NXT & AEW fighting for 2nd place, and Raw just being the dirt worst every week, lol.
> 
> I will say that I don't find any show "perfect" or "clicking on all cylinders" necessarily. They all have their flaws. Raw for example is just mostly flaws, while the other 3 bring really good things to the table but also have their issues IMO. *But SD for me just has the best thing in wrestling with Roman and his stuff and they book the show around him which elevates the whole show. *Have some other fun stuff and for me it's the best. But at the same time, NXT or AEW any given week could have a show that's easily the best.


I think this may be where I disconnect with people on why SD is better. Some of you prefer for there to be a central leader on the show and for everything to revolve around that person. (Roman Reigns) It does make for things to flow in a way where each show has a primary goal so that every underlying storyline always leads back to that leader for the most part. It gives the show more focus. For me, I prefer the variety of having 10+ different storylines or angles all going at the same time which all have nothing to do with each other. Some could see it as chaotic but for me it makes for a more entertaining viewing experience. I'm not on board with the idea of having one guy be the only one who truly matters, which is the vibe I get from both SD and from WWE in general.


----------



## The Wood

Danielallen1410 said:


> Tbh I haven’t watched smack down for ages but maybe I will now it’s mania season.
> 
> i completely agree on your AEW opinion. Don’t watch NXT or RAW so can’t comment on them.
> 
> I really want AEW to do well but they just don’t keep me interested. I’ve always got it on but I lose attention.... for me the stories aren’t compelling enough. Also it’s not their fault but I really find it hard to watch without pops from the crowd. The fact they were the more atmospheric product out of them and WWE is what drew me to them.
> 
> The crowds can’t come back quick enough.


Maybe they should have fined or suspended Chris Jericho for spreading Covid? This is an American problem that is not going to go away with how business powers like the WWE and AEW have handled it. Most places around the world are able to have people at live events again, because we don’t go into massive denial and basically serve as the perfect harbingers for a virus.

Don’t want to get too far off topic, but it’s relevant because I don’t know if crowds are coming back anytime soon with how it’s been handled over there. I haven’t checked this out myself, but I’ve heard things about unrestricted US travel not being a possibility until 2022.

Crowds aren’t just magically going to come back.


----------



## TD Stinger

Prosper said:


> I think this may be where I disconnect with people on why SD is better. Some of you prefer for there to be a central leader on the show and for everything to revolve around that person. (Roman Reigns) It does make for things to flow in a way where each show has a primary goal so that every underlying storyline always leads back to that leader for the most part. It gives the show more focus. For me, I prefer the variety of having 10+ different storylines or angles all going at the same time which all have nothing to do with each other. Some could see it as chaotic but for me it makes for a more entertaining viewing experience. I'm not on board with the idea of having one guy be the only one who truly matters, which is the vibe I get from both SD and from WWE in general.


Oh I would agree that AEW has more stories going for it than SD if we compare the 2. But that also comes down to how you view the stories of AEW. And for me, there's a lot to like but also a lot to not like:

*The Cody/Shaq/Jade stuff at this point hardly makes any sense and feels so forced. Mainly I'm happy for Red Velvet getting a shot and hope it doesn't end as a train wreck.
*The Kenny/Mox storyline and all the other things around is usually entertaining but in the middle of it is the Bucks melodrama which I'm just done with.
*The Inner Circle stuff is hit or miss with me most weeks.
*The Kingston feuds are solid.
*I couldn't care less about the Miro & Kip vs. Best Friends stuff.
*I'm interested in the FTR vs. JE feud.

And so on and so forth. I will point out, as if it's not obvious, that this is just my opinion and nothing I'm trying to force as public opinion. AEW does have a lot of things going for them, it's just my interest level for those things combined doesn't match what SD is doing with Roman, their woman, their mid card, etc.

And while I do think AEW has a much better idea of where they are going than the WWE shows, I can't say that I'm as entertained as I should be in the interim.


----------



## Prosper

TD Stinger said:


> Oh I would agree that AEW has more stories going for it than SD if we compare the 2. But that also comes down to how you view the stories of AEW. And for me, there's a lot to like but also a lot to not like:
> 
> *The Cody/Shaq/Jade stuff at this point hardly makes any sense and feels so forced. Mainly I'm happy for Red Velvet getting a shot and hope it doesn't end as a train wreck.
> *The Kenny/Mox storyline and all the other things around is usually entertaining but in the middle of it is the Bucks melodrama which I'm just done with.
> *The Inner Circle stuff is hit or miss with me most weeks.
> *The Kingston feuds are solid.
> *I couldn't care less about the Miro & Kip vs. Best Friends stuff.
> *I'm interested in the FTR vs. JE feud.
> 
> And so on and so forth. I will point out, as if it's not obvious, that this is just my opinion and nothing I'm trying to force as public opinion. AEW does have a lot of things going for them, it's just my interest level for those things combined doesn't match what SD is doing with Roman, their woman, their mid card, etc.
> 
> And while I do think AEW has a much better idea of where they are going than the WWE shows, I can't say that I'm as entertained as I should be in the interim.


I got ya, that's fair @TD Stinger 

I guess its exactly that, what storylines combined give you most enjoyment. I just think that AEW's method of having so much going on during the show at once is the best way to go whether some of it is bad or not. With SD, its like you barely have 3 main storylines/angles and if you don't like one or two of them at any given time it hurts the entire viewing experience for me because that's 33% - 66% of the show. 

On Dynamite, if I don't like 2 storylines, there are another 6 that I enjoy. For me personally, I thought the Roman/Jey feud was incredible but I'm not really feeling the KO feud to follow up. With Sasha Banks I think they have taken a step back in putting her in this feud with Carmella and having her wrestle intergender matches with Reginald who seems to have come out of nowhere. Right now, after Sasha/Bayley, I don't see SD's women's division as any better than having a random women's match on Dynamite every week. Then you have Big E who is feuding with Apollo in the primary mid-card feud? I just wish there was more going on so that I could disregard the bad and focus on the good. But yeah, its all subjective at the end of the day.


----------



## The Wood

That’s the Vince Russo mentality and it’s incredibly flawed. It’s been proven not to work. You need to be able to emphasise to create stars. If you emphasise everything, nothing is.


----------



## Klitschko

Prosper said:


> I did enjoy SD during that time. Roman/Jey was really good. Personally I thought Kingston/Moxley was just as good which went on simultaneously.
> 
> As far as overall quality, that's what I am mostly getting at as far as what I would like to debate with people. How is SD in the last year as a whole better than Dynamite in the last year?
> 
> If we are talking short stretches of time like the Jey/Roman and Sasha/Bayley feud then I guess I can understand how it was better during that time, but SD being better as a whole up and down the card over the last 14 months? I'd like to get a deeper understanding of what people objectively see there if that's what Klitschko and others who feel the same are getting at.


I never mentioned a specific stretch of time personally. Overall for the last year AEW was better than Smackdown, but for me personally since about September probably its been Smackdown. Like you said, the Reigns/Uso feud, the Sasha/Bayley one, and now recently I'm surprisingly enjoying the Reigns/Owens one too. Big E has been a good fighting Intercontinental champion, and I find myself every week kind of interested if they will do anything else with Nakamura after that great showing he had in that gauntlet match. On top of that I'm enjoying these little gems that Daniel Bryan has been putting on tv. Other then that, nothing on the show has been really offensive. The tag division is ok, the Sami Zayn storyline is fine and so it this mini feud that Corbin and Mysterio are having. 

With Dynamite, its a bit different. The highs are really high, but the show also has a lot more lows as well. I am enjoying the Darby/Sting vs Team Tazz storyline, and there is some really good matches on the show, and I also enjoy Moxley.

On the other hand, I hate every single thing that Cody does outside of the wrestling ring. He's a great wrestler, but he's just making things so confusing with all these multiple storylines that he's half way invested in. To be honest with you, other then the first promo they did, I have skipped this whole Cody/Shaq storyline. 

The Kenny Omega belt collector storyline is completely meh to me because they are doing all these references to the Bullet Club and NJPW, but I never watched the bullet club and NJPW so this is all new to me and they are not explaining this well. They just expect you to know it. If you're a casual who only watched WWE and now AEW, you probably have no idea what the fuck is happening here and why the whole Bullet Club thing is such a big deal. 

The tag team division is a mess. Sure they put on great matches every week, but there is hardly any important storylines. No idea what FTR and Jurassic Express are feuding over and Young Bucks as champions are horrible as well. Even now, there is no actual storyline for the tag titles. Instead we get another fucking tournament to decide who will challenge for them. I actually gave them a lot of credit originally because I thought FTR would return and restart their feud and have an even better match at Revolution, but it seems like they just dropped it. 

Their women's division is worthless. There is nothing else that needs to be said about it. 

The whole inner circle storyline is just bad most of the time. It dragged down MJF from being a potential main event prospect to just another guy. It made Jericho and PNP look horrible and as comedy acts. Swagger is completly useless now and not feared and Sammy is OK. 

The Miro/Sabian/Best friends feud is ok to me and I enjoy a few things, but Miro really should have been involved in something bigger. He went from holy shit Miro is a star, to just another guy on the roster so fast. 

And finally, they suck at making feuds and stoylines for 95% of the show. I have no idea what most of the people feuding in the company are even feuding about. Its like they just show up one week with a random brawl and boom its a feud. 

So overall, I know it sounds like damn, this dude hates AEW, but I skip over segments that I don't like at this point and the ones that I do enjoy, I enjoy a lot, and they have some great matches as well and thats why I'm still a fan of AEW. Smackdown on the other hand is usually the only show I can get through in full. There is nothing really there that pisses me off much.


----------



## Garty

The Wood said:


> I’m not going to answer your question in full, because you honestly concern me. I will just say this: We live in 2021. Advertisers and other stakeholders are much more aware of diversity within the audience that goes beyond age. Ethnicity, education, orientation, social media presence, financial stability. Grab two people who are 18 from anywhere in the United States. You are bound to find a VAST valley of differences between them. Grouping all viewers together in terms of their age bracket is step one, _at best_. On its own, it is limiting and archaic.
> 
> This can be discerned with common sense. Nothing I am saying here is unreasonable and will likely ring true with people who give it some half-honest thought.
> 
> Hell, go to Nielsen page. Their actual one. Not an entertainment website and glorified gossip page. Go to their actual ones. You will barely find mention of the 18-49 demo. I haven’t been in ages, but I feel pretty confident in saying that. You just don’t see it because they are more interested in things like attracting and retaining Asian-American TV audiences, and things like that.
> 
> Even in a general sense, some networks target women, men that skewer younger and people who skewer older because of economic factors that have left them with more money and better access to programming than millennials. What you really want is an audience you can market to. That’s what this is all about. And wrestling fans are notoriously undesirable for that.


You take these things so seriously Woody... and you worry about me?! This entire post almost sounds defeatist on your part. Yeah, seriously. And I say that with confidence because I provided you with the actual unbiased TV ratings data, but you still refuse to accept it. Without that, you have no argument and your whole narrative for the past year and a half evaporates... just like that.

Variety and Showbuzz Daily are "gossip pages"?!  My man, Variety was/is a trade-publication that's been around since 1905 and Showbuzz Daily, although the website has only been in existence for 10 years, the guys running it are ex-TV/Film Executives, with 40 years of experience in the business. I don't think you can discard them as just folly. If that's not enough, you wanted me to use the specific Nielsen website as a basis... well, I'll one-up you on that. Did you know that a subsidiary of Nielsen, has been around since 1982, which specifically deals in ratings, demos, trends, etc. So, unless the entire industry is somehow this "conglomerate conspiracy machine", who all collude to skew wrestling metrics and demos to suit some agenda... again, I say, believe what you want to believe.

I cannot say anything further to facilitate this subject to you, any more than I already have.


----------



## The Wood

Garty is All Elite said:


> You take these things so seriously Woody... and you worry about me?! This entire post almost sounds defeatist on your part. Yeah, seriously. And I say that with confidence because I provided you with the actual unbiased TV ratings data, but you still refuse to accept it. Without that, you have no argument and your whole narrative for the past year and a half evaporates... just like that.
> 
> Variety and Showbuzz Daily are "gossip pages"?!  My man, Variety was/is a trade-publication that's been around since 1905 and Showbuzz Daily, although the website has only been in existence for 10 years, the guys running it are ex-TV/Film Executives, with 40 years of experience in the business. I don't think you can discard them as just folly. If that's not enough, you wanted me to use the specific Nielsen website as a basis... well, I'll one-up you on that. Did you know that a subsidiary of Nielsen, has been around since 1982, which specifically deals in ratings, demos, trends, etc. So, unless the entire industry is somehow this "conglomerate conspiracy machine", who all collude to skew wrestling metrics and demos to suit some agenda... again, I say, believe what you want to believe.
> 
> I cannot say anything further to facilitate this subject to you, any more than I already have.


The first part of your post is more fluff designed to insult people instead of addressing the points. Of which you addressed none. Zip. Zero. Zilch.

There’s no such thing as an unbiased source. Everybody knows that. And yes, Showbuzz and Variety are gossip rags. Try citing one of them in an academic article and see how you go.

I don’t understand your point about Nielsen measuring these things at all. That’s a big fat “So?” None of that has any bearing on what I actually said. What do you think you’re arguing? Oh, it’s all in your head again.

Goodbye, Garty.


----------



## Garty

Post-Modern Devil said:


> Copypasting the quarter results from the reddit thread:
> 
> P2+ / P18-49
> *AEW (734k, 0.29)*
> Q1: 760k / 366k (Kingston vs. Archer, Moxley's promo)
> Q2: 731k / 396k (Sting/Allin's promo, Jericho & MJF vs. Pillman & Garrison)
> Q3: 788k / 424k (PAC's promo, Cody's segment)
> Q4: 737k / 377k (Page vs. Nemeth)
> Q5: 736k / 385k (Jungle Boy vs. Harwood)
> Q6: 712k / 359k (ending of JB vs. Harwood, Team Taz's promo, beginning of Britt vs. Shanna)
> Q7: 715k / 358k (ending of Britt vs. Shayna, MJF/Guevara's promo, pre-main event's promo)
> Q8: 705k / 360k (Young Bucks & Good Brothers vs. Dark Order)
> 
> *NXT (720k, 0.21)*
> Q1: 832k / 356k (MSK vs. Dain & Maverick)
> Q2: 820k / 324k (Stallion's promo, Dakota & Raquel vs. Aliyah & Jessi)
> Q3: 785k / 296k (The Way's promo, Scarlett's promo, Rust vs. Rios)
> Q4: 717k / 255k (Balor/O'Reilly's promo, GYV vs. Ruff & Kushida)
> Q5: 712K / 261k (ending of tag team match, Stallion's injury, Regal/LDF confrontation, Toni's interview)
> Q6: 642k / 249k (Toni/Io/Mercedes brawl, Scott's promo and beginning of Scott vs. Reed)
> Q7: 625k / 249k (ending of Scott vs. Reed, Ciampa/Thatcher's promo)
> Q8: 629k / 222k (Balor & O'Reilly vs. Lorcan & Burch)
> 
> Notes :
> NXT peaked in every demo and overall viewers in Q1
> AEW peaked in 18-49 and overall viewers during Cody's segment and the overall high minute was during Red Velvet's promo
> AEW peaked in 18-34 during the main event


Well... there you have it folks?! Case closed for this week.

Although the 100,000+ viewers I expected them to not have in the first 20-30 minutes of the show didn't really affect the overall number, the fact that they regained the "lead" in Q3 and continued to increase overall (in the end) while NXT dropped overall (in the end), pretty much sold the sales-pitch I made earlier today.


----------



## Garty

The Wood said:


> The first part of your post is more fluff designed to insult people instead of addressing the points. Of which you addressed none. Zip. Zero. Zilch.
> 
> There’s no such thing as an unbiased source. Everybody knows that. And yes, Showbuzz and Variety are gossip rags. Try citing one of them in an academic article and see how you go.
> 
> I don’t understand your point about Nielsen measuring these things at all. That’s a big fat “So?” None of that has any bearing on what I actually said. What do you think you’re arguing? Oh, it’s all in your head again.
> 
> Goodbye, Garty.


Not that I expected you to say anything other than this, but yeah... I'm the one that's not arguing "facts" now?  Woody, I laid everything out for you, piece by piece and STILL, YOU REFUSE to budge on your conspiracy theories.


----------



## The Wood

Garty is All Elite said:


> Not that I expected you to say anything other than this, but yeah... I'm the one that's not arguing "facts" now?  Woody, I laid everything out for you, piece by piece and STILL, YOU REFUSE to budge on your conspiracy theories.


You didn’t lay shit out, Garty. Yes, it is a conspiracy theory that advertisers are interested in capturing more diverse audiences on 2021.

Absolutely crazy to think that there is a difference between a 24 year old black dude in Baltimore, an 18 year old gay kid in San Francisco and a 39 year old farmer in Georgia. Fuck’s sake.

But sure, share Variety articles ranking shows by demo because...they need something to sell their magazines? The part some people forget is that these things are a business and trying to sell you something too.

But yes — you “laid it out” with “unbiased sources.” Let’s use Showbuzz and Variety to justify the existence of Showbuzz and Variety.

*EDIT: Lol, I actually bit the bullet and went down Garty’s rabbit-hole, which I previously didn’t engage with because...well, to be honest, you know it’s not likely to be relevant and is probably just there to disorder conversation. I’m just trying to stick to reason and my own talking points But I had this weird feeling he would actually post something that works against him.

One is a link to the actual ratings. Which is nothing. Then he posts a link to a Variety article which talks about NCIS leading a night based on its viewership. It also misspells “NBC” at the end. I kid you not.*


----------



## Prosper

Klitschko said:


> I never mentioned a specific stretch of time personally. Overall for the last year AEW was better than Smackdown, but for me personally since about September probably its been Smackdown. Like you said, the Reigns/Uso feud, the Sasha/Bayley one, and now recently I'm surprisingly enjoying the Reigns/Owens one too. Big E has been a good fighting Intercontinental champion, and I find myself every week kind of interested if they will do anything else with Nakamura after that great showing he had in that gauntlet match. On top of that I'm enjoying these little gems that Daniel Bryan has been putting on tv. Other then that, nothing on the show has been really offensive. The tag division is ok, the Sami Zayn storyline is fine and so it this mini feud that Corbin and Mysterio are having.
> 
> With Dynamite, its a bit different. The highs are really high, but the show also has a lot more lows as well. I am enjoying the Darby/Sting vs Team Tazz storyline, and there is some really good matches on the show, and I also enjoy Moxley.
> 
> On the other hand, I hate every single thing that Cody does outside of the wrestling ring. He's a great wrestler, but he's just making things so confusing with all these multiple storylines that he's half way invested in. To be honest with you, other then the first promo they did, I have skipped this whole Cody/Shaq storyline.
> 
> The Kenny Omega belt collector storyline is completely meh to me because they are doing all these references to the Bullet Club and NJPW, but I never watched the bullet club and NJPW so this is all new to me and they are not explaining this well. They just expect you to know it. If you're a casual who only watched WWE and now AEW, you probably have no idea what the fuck is happening here and why the whole Bullet Club thing is such a big deal.
> 
> The tag team division is a mess. Sure they put on great matches every week, but there is hardly any important storylines. No idea what FTR and Jurassic Express are feuding over and Young Bucks as champions are horrible as well. Even now, there is no actual storyline for the tag titles. Instead we get another fucking tournament to decide who will challenge for them. I actually gave them a lot of credit originally because I thought FTR would return and restart their feud and have an even better match at Revolution, but it seems like they just dropped it.
> 
> Their women's division is worthless. There is nothing else that needs to be said about it.
> 
> The whole inner circle storyline is just bad most of the time. It dragged down MJF from being a potential main event prospect to just another guy. It made Jericho and PNP look horrible and as comedy acts. Swagger is completly useless now and not feared and Sammy is OK.
> 
> The Miro/Sabian/Best friends feud is ok to me and I enjoy a few things, but Miro really should have been involved in something bigger. He went from holy shit Miro is a star, to just another guy on the roster so fast.
> 
> And finally, they suck at making feuds and stoylines for 95% of the show. I have no idea what most of the people feuding in the company are even feuding about. Its like they just show up one week with a random brawl and boom its a feud.
> 
> So overall, I know it sounds like damn, this dude hates AEW, but I skip over segments that I don't like at this point and the ones that I do enjoy, I enjoy a lot, and they have some great matches as well and thats why I'm still a fan of AEW. Smackdown on the other hand is usually the only show I can get through in full. There is nothing really there that pisses me off much.


Thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts @Klitschko 

Knowing that you don't believe that SD has been better as a whole over the 14 months makes it easier to see why you would think SD is better. It's funny because your views on AEW are pretty much how I see SD. And I know you don't hate AEW it's just that at different points in time you find more enjoyment than other points in time it's all good.

The AEW women's division I'm actually starting to grow fond of. They need more storylines and structure for sure and the way Shida is treated is terrible. It almost comes off like Tony Khan doesn't like her lol seeing as Red Velvet for example has felt more important for the last couple of months now. No reason for Shida to miss 5-6 shows at a time when she's your champion. But I am really liking the talent they have and I am finding enjoyment in the random women's matches they have every week. But I know that isn't the popular opinion. Women like Red Velvet, Anna Jay, Tay Conti, Britt Baker, Serena Deeb, Shanna, and Thunder Rosa are all great and for me, watching them get better and put on good matches on Dynamite gives me more enjoyment than Carmella feuding with Sasha at the moment, which is a feud that has no basis. The consistency of good women's matches on Dynamite right now I would say is better than the consistency on the WWE main roster. Tay Conti vs Serena Deeb and Britt Baker vs Shanna for example were both great. Carmella just comes back and boom she gets a multi-month title feud. Is a women's tournament featuring international and domestic talent, Jade vs Velvet, Rosa vs Britt and random good womens matches every week as a whole really that much worse than SD women's programs featuring Sasha/Carmella and Bianca/Bayley? What happens when those 2 feuds are over given the talent level of the SD women? 

I disagree on your point in not knowing what people are feuding about in AEW compared to SD. For example, you have Darby feuding with Team Taz because Cage has been trying to kill him since he debuted and because he disrespected Taz when he offered to train/mentor him. Moxley and Kingston were feuding over blood brother shit and Kingston never tapping. Hardy and Guevara feuded over Guevara denying his mentorship and getting ran over by a golf cart. Best Friends and Santana/Ortiz feuded over their mom being disrespected and P & P being made to look like jokes by Best Friends. PAC and Kingston feuded over the fact that Kingston tried to break up the Death Triangle family. Butcher and Blade feuded with Nightmare Family because Bunny was being a gold-digger and manipulating QT. Kingston and Archer feuding over what happened in the battle royal. Baker is feuding with Rosa because she's not an AEW talent. Red Velvet feuding with Jade for Brandi's honor. MJF and Sammy feuding because Sammy thinks MJF is a snake. Omega feuding with Moxley due to their history and what happened at Winter is Coming. FTR and JE feuding over simple shit talk and FTR calling them a joke to wrestling due to their gimmick. Miro feuding with Best Friends over a broken video game. (terrible lol) So on and so on. I feel like everything has some kind of starting point or foundation. On SD and WWE in general I have no idea why their feuds are happening. Why are Drew and Goldberg feuding? Why are Roman and KO feuding and why does he get 4 title shots in a row? Why are Big E and Apollo feuding? Why are Carmella and Sasha feuding and why does she get multiple title shots all in a row? Corbin has probably lost 20-35 matches this year alone and he's feuding with Mysterio? For what? Why not do a Mysterio/Dominik tag team and bolster the tag division? 

I do agree that right now, the AEW tag division is messy, mostly because the Bucks are in this Bullet Club storyline, but before that we had 2 great back to back tag team storylines between Hangman/Omega vs Bucks and FTR vs Hangman/Omega. FTR vs Bucks wasn't built well at all after that though. Santana and Ortiz vs Best Friends and Butcher and Blade vs Nightmare Family were both story-driven and the end result matches were both incredible with the Bunkhouse and Parking lot brawls. On SD they have literally 2 tag teams in STreet Profits and Ziggler/Roode and they have fought multiple times already over nothing. Before that the tag division centered around Lucha House Party and New Day. AEW in its messy state right now is still far above the state of the tag division on SD IMO. 

Cody is on his Hollywood shit right now lol so outside of the ring it has gotten pretty bad post Full Gear. But his feuds with Brodie and Darby Allin were both awesome so I'm OK with this Shaq thing for now especially since Red Velvet is now involved with the possibility of Jade impressing in the ring. Besides, I think we can all agree that Cody needs to be cooled down for a minute. If he's not going to be putting Miro over clean after Revolution then I'd rather he take a break from being in prominent storylines for a couple months. Then they can heat him back up going into DON3. 

They do need to give the audience a video package or something to explain the Bullet Club thing. I just don't know how much footage from Japan they are allowed to use so they have to tell the announcers to put them over, which I think JR has been doing a decent job at. All people really need to know is that they traveled the world together wrestling in Japan. I'm loving Kenny Omega's title reign thus far though. He is really coming off like a star and the ultimate heel. 

SD is definitely a pretty good show and they are currently putting on very enjoyable matches, but I don't get the same level of enjoyment from it that I do with Dynamite. After the Roman/Jey feud and Sasha/Bayley it's like they just went back to the same traditional tropes and boring content that they usually have. I don't feel excited to watch the show on Friday night because it feels like nothing matters and everything is Roman-centered. So it's like if I watch Roman's segments on Youtube I know I haven't missed anything else. Even then, the Nakamura thing is interesting and I am also pretty intrigued to see what they do with Sonya Deville. I think she's incredible. If Roman feuds with Daniel Bryan going into Mania that would also be a must-see feud for me. 

Sorry to mods for derailing the thread by the way lol


----------



## The Wood

People get too bent out of shape about a thread getting “derailed.” Conversation grows and changes. It’s making for an interesting discussion.


----------



## Klitschko

Prosper said:


> Thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts @Klitschko
> 
> Knowing that you don't believe that SD has been better as a whole over the 14 months makes it easier to see why you would think SD is better. It's funny because your views on AEW are pretty much how I see SD. And I know you don't hate AEW it's just that at different points in time you find more enjoyment than other points in time it's all good.
> 
> The AEW women's division I'm actually starting to grow fond of. They need more storylines and structure for sure and the way Shida is treated is terrible. It almost comes off like Tony Khan doesn't like her lol seeing as Red Velvet for example has felt more important for the last couple of months now. No reason for Shida to miss 5-6 shows at a time when she's your champion. But I am really liking the talent they have and I am finding enjoyment in the random women's matches they have every week. But I know that isn't the popular opinion. Women like Red Velvet, Anna Jay, Tay Conti, Britt Baker, Serena Deeb, Shanna, and Thunder Rosa are all great and for me, watching them get better and put on good matches on Dynamite gives me more enjoyment than Carmella feuding with Sasha at the moment, which is a feud that has no basis. The consistency of good women's matches on Dynamite right now I would say is better than the consistency on the WWE main roster. Tay Conti vs Serena Deeb and Britt Baker vs Shanna for example were both great. Carmella just comes back and boom she gets a multi-month title feud. Is a women's tournament featuring international and domestic talent, Jade vs Velvet, Rosa vs Britt and random good womens matches every week as a whole really that much worse than SD women's programs featuring Sasha/Carmella and Bianca/Bayley? What happens when those 2 feuds are over given the talent level of the SD women?
> 
> I disagree on your point in not knowing what people are feuding about in AEW compared to SD. For example, you have Darby feuding with Team Taz because Cage has been trying to kill him since he debuted and because he disrespected Taz when he offered to train/mentor him. Moxley and Kingston were feuding over blood brother shit and Kingston never tapping. Hardy and Guevara feuded over Guevara denying his mentorship and getting ran over by a golf cart. Best Friends and Santana/Ortiz feuded over their mom being disrespected and P & P being made to look like jokes by Best Friends. PAC and Kingston feuded over the fact that Kingston tried to break up the Death Triangle family. Butcher and Blade feuded with Nightmare Family because Bunny was being a gold-digger and manipulating QT. Kingston and Archer feuding over what happened in the battle royal. Baker is feuding with Rosa because she's not an AEW talent. Red Velvet feuding with Jade for Brandi's honor. MJF and Sammy feuding because Sammy thinks MJF is a snake. Omega feuding with Moxley due to their history and what happened at Winter is Coming. FTR and JE feuding over simple shit talk and FTR calling them a joke to wrestling due to their gimmick. Miro feuding with Best Friends over a broken video game. (terrible lol) So on and so on. I feel like everything has some kind of starting point or foundation. On SD and WWE in general I have no idea why their feuds are happening. Why are Drew and Goldberg feuding? Why are Roman and KO feuding and why does he get 4 title shots in a row? Why are Big E and Apollo feuding? Why are Carmella and Sasha feuding and why does she get multiple title shots all in a row? Corbin has probably lost 20-35 matches this year alone and he's feuding with Mysterio? For what? Why not do a Mysterio/Dominik tag team and bolster the tag division?
> 
> I do agree that right now, the AEW tag division is messy, mostly because the Bucks are in this Bullet Club storyline, but before that we had 2 great back to back tag team storylines between Hangman/Omega vs Bucks and FTR vs Hangman/Omega. FTR vs Bucks wasn't built well at all after that though. Santana and Ortiz vs Best Friends and Butcher and Blade vs Nightmare Family were both story-driven and the end result matches were both incredible with the Bunkhouse and Parking lot brawls. On SD they have literally 2 tag teams in STreet Profits and Ziggler/Roode and they have fought multiple times already over nothing. Before that the tag division centered around Lucha House Party and New Day. AEW in its messy state right now is still far above the state of the tag division on SD IMO.
> 
> Cody is on his Hollywood shit right now lol so outside of the ring it has gotten pretty bad post Full Gear. But his feuds with Brodie and Darby Allin were both awesome so I'm OK with this Shaq thing for now especially since Red Velvet is now involved with the possibility of Jade impressing in the ring. Besides, I think we can all agree that Cody needs to be cooled down for a minute. If he's not going to be putting Miro over clean after Revolution then I'd rather he take a break from being in prominent storylines for a couple months. Then they can heat him back up going into DON3.
> 
> They do need to give the audience a video package or something to explain the Bullet Club thing. I just don't know how much footage from Japan they are allowed to use so they have to tell the announcers to put them over, which I think JR has been doing a decent job at. All people really need to know is that they traveled the world together wrestling in Japan. I'm loving Kenny Omega's title reign thus far though. He is really coming off like a star and the ultimate heel.
> 
> SD is definitely a pretty good show and they are currently putting on very enjoyable matches, but I don't get the same level of enjoyment from it that I do with Dynamite. After the Roman/Jey feud and Sasha/Bayley it's like they just went back to the same traditional tropes and boring content that they usually have. I don't feel excited to watch the show on Friday night because it feels like nothing matters and everything is Roman-centered. So it's like if I watch Roman's segments on Youtube I know I haven't missed anything else. Even then, the Nakamura thing is interesting and I am also pretty intrigued to see what they do with Sonya Deville. I think she's incredible. If Roman feuds with Daniel Bryan going into Mania that would also be a must-see feud for me.
> 
> Sorry to mods for derailing the thread by the way lol


My pleasure @Prosper. I'm loving this conversation as well. Great points too. If I had to put a finger on it, I think it would be like mentioned earlier. Smackdown revolves around the Roman Reigns story and they are doing a great job with it in my opinion and the undercard is just a nice little bonus to me. His feud with Kevin Owens started off meh, with Owens questioning what Roman has become, and then Roman just keeps beating the shit out of him and cheating him out of the title every chance he gets because he let this whole head of the table thing get to his head and felt disrespected. Not the greatest storyline ever but its executed well by everyone involved. Personally, I like that sort of stuff better then just chaos. I like having the show be centered around one main storyline, but thats just me. 

You did make some good points that changed my mind. For example their women's division is solid and has good talent, you are right. And they do give us some good womens matches. WWE usually delivers great womens matches on ppv, but not so much on regular episodes. Its just hard to be invested in any of them when it feels like they don't care about any of them. Personally, I would put Baker as the next champion and then eventually Rosa. 

Also I see your point with their storylines and you're right. They do have a starting point, and a reason for the feud. It's just to me at least that their feuds also just lack a lot of meat, if that even makes sense. They seem so bare bones for most of them. Like there is not a lot of content in there.

But overall, I enjoy AEW for what it is. Yea, I normally don't watch the whole show, but its good enough. Personally I'm really hoping that when the crowds come back they will go back to how they were pre covid. It felt more sports oriented and serious back then. I enjoyed that a lot.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Prosper said:


> I did enjoy SD during that time. Roman/Jey was really good. Personally I thought Kingston/Moxley was just as good which went on simultaneously.
> 
> As far as overall quality, that's what I am mostly getting at as far as what I would like to debate with people. How is SD in the last year as a whole better than Dynamite in the last year?
> 
> If we are talking short stretches of time like the Jey/Roman and Sasha/Bayley feud then I guess I can understand how it was better during that time, but SD being better as a whole up and down the card over the last 14 months? I'd like to get a deeper understanding of what people objectively see there if that's what Klitschko and others who feel the same are getting at.


As far as my view goes I think they've both been pretty neck and neck all year really. That small period there with the Reigns vs Jey stiff SD was pretty easily the best show, but I feel stuff like the Reigns vs KO stuff while decent is a lot lesser in quality. Moxley vs Kingston was fine during that time but it felt pointless because by that point we all knew Jon was dropping it to Omega. 

But right now they're both pretty tight in terms of quality, the better show differs from week to week. I don't think either are particularly good shows in general, but they're miles ahead of RAW and NXT


----------



## Garty

The Wood said:


> You didn’t lay shit out, Garty. Yes, it is a conspiracy theory that advertisers are interested in capturing more diverse audiences on 2021.
> 
> Absolutely crazy to think that there is a difference between a 24 year old black dude in Baltimore, an 18 year old gay kid in San Francisco and a 39 year old farmer in Georgia. Fuck’s sake.
> 
> But sure, share Variety articles ranking shows by demo because...they need something to sell their magazines? The part some people forget is that these things are a business and trying to sell you something too.
> 
> But yes — you “laid it out” with “unbiased sources.” Let’s use Showbuzz and Variety to justify the existence of Showbuzz and Variety.
> 
> *EDIT: Lol, I actually bit the bullet and went down Garty’s rabbit-hole, which I previously didn’t engage with because...well, to be honest, you know it’s not likely to be relevant and is probably just there to disorder conversation. I’m just trying to stick to reason and my own talking points But I had this weird feeling he would actually post something that works against him.
> 
> One is a link to the actual ratings. Which is nothing. Then he posts a link to a Variety article which talks about NCIS leading a night based on its viewership. It also misspells “NBC” at the end. I kid you not.*


 So, you argued with me for over 2 hours and you only NOW read some of what I linked for you?! Many users have called you a "hater" (myself included), but holy-shit Woody, you've exposed yourself to be nothing more than a shill to whatever cause you've been trying to fight since Day One. Your elitist attitude, narcissistic behavior and unflinching bias is showing for all to see now.

Ooh, you got me on the Variety article man... a spelling mistake? You mean like some spelling errors WE ALL have made?! The example given, regardless of it's topic, was to show you what the ratings reported by Variety, were the exact same ratings as reported by Showbuzz Daily. How do you _*not*_ see that?!

You're really harping on the diversity lately, huh? Is that what you're sticking with now? Your other "facts" don't coincide with your arguments any longer? Run out of ways to spin things? Moving the goal-posts? Any of this sound familiar?


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

The rating isn't even bad. Don't get why people are acting like it's so horrible. It's solid and they're at number 6 that week. They're fine.


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> I think this may be where I disconnect with people on why SD is better. Some of you prefer for there to be a central leader on the show and for everything to revolve around that person. (Roman Reigns) *It does make for things to flow in a way where each show has a primary goal so that every underlying storyline always leads back to that leader for the most part.* It gives the show more focus. For me, I prefer the variety of having 10+ different storylines or angles all going at the same time which all have nothing to do with each other. Some could see it as chaotic but for me it makes for a more entertaining viewing experience. I'm not on board with the idea of having one guy be the only one who truly matters, which is the vibe I get from both SD and from WWE in general.


The model just works best. The end of the day we all know what story means the most, so downplaying it to make others seem equally as important does much of nothing. The best presentation of Kenny's story was last week where you had his story arc playing out all through out the episode. He's the main character right now, treat him as such. That doesn't mean others can't get to shine in his shadow, but let the complimentary pieces be complimentary. 

As far as why SmackDown is better it comes down to memorable stories for me. We watch about 300 matches on each brand a year. So matches tend to blend together save a few, regardless of show. 

The Sasha vs Bayley saga and Reigns heel turn and Jey feud are going to be long term memorable for me. They also had fun midcard shit I liked such as Sheamus and Jeff, the finish of the Mysterio angle, the IC title scene after Sami left was also fun with all the mini-feuds AJ was in. 


AEW on the flip only had one story that had that level of top and they botched the end. I think had Kenny and Page's story didn't fall off the cliff and into a stupid tournament arc after they lost the tag titles, it would've been a shoe in for best story given how much it helped Page and how it had great moments like the Bucks stop in February or even the unsteady alliance for Stadium Stampede. If they were going to have Kenny turn heel, it should've been on Page after the loss. 

Ultimately I think their PPV and special structure is what is keeping them from telling great stories. They have glimpses like that promo between Mox and Eddie. Or even the beginning of FTR vs The Bucks. But they always do some weird pivot that loses steam for the stories. Or they don't have enough time to build the story because they have a short build to a special and already have something planned for the PPV.


----------



## The Wood

Garty is All Elite said:


> So, you argued with me for over 2 hours and you only NOW read some of what I linked for you?! Many users have called you a "hater" (myself included), but holy-shit Woody, you've exposed yourself to be nothing more than a shill to whatever cause you've been trying to fight since Day One. Your elitist attitude, narcissistic behavior and unflinching bias is showing for all to see now.
> 
> Ooh, you got me on the Variety article man... a spelling mistake? You mean like some spelling errors WE ALL have made?! The example given, regardless of it's topic, was to show you what the ratings reported by Variety, were the exact same ratings as reported by Showbuzz Daily. How do you _*not*_ see that?!
> 
> You're really harping on the diversity lately, huh? Is that what you're sticking with now? Your other "facts" don't coincide with your arguments any longer? Run out of ways to spin things? Moving the goal-posts? Any of this sound familiar?


Yes, Garty, because usually what you link is irrelevant and there to derail conversation. And again I was right. How is it “holy shit” when it turned out to be spot-on?

No, it wasn’t just a spelling mistake. It was a spelling mistake in an allegedly professional article that obviously wasn’t even proof-read before uploading. Ace stuff there. It was also that the article _specifically states that NCIS won the night with viewership_. You pissed on your own leg, Garty.

What does Variety echoing Showbuzz’s ratings have to do with _anything_? See, this is what I mean: You argue with shit clanging around in your own head. Never have I said that Showbuzz’s ratings aren’t the numbers given by Nielsen. I’ve just said that the emphasis on the key demo is archaic, gimmicky and limiting in scope. You then share an article that...reports their numbers? Okay...so what?

I’ve spoken about diversity and different demographics from the start. Wtf are you talking about? It has always been one of my core arguments against putting so much emphasis on the demo. How is it shifting a goal-post when it has been your A1 argument forever?

Other arguments against the key demo:

-Socio-economic changes means that people in the 18-49 demo don’t necessarily have the disposal income or access to cable that they would have had two decades ago.

-There is value in targeting other demos. Especially on cable.

-Measuring participation of these demos is actually pretty difficult. What if someone in the key demo watches at another location? Or someone’s cable is registered to a person in the demo but it is watched by an older person visiting them?

And you link me to an article saying NCIS won the night with viewership? Okay.


----------



## Prosper

Klitschko said:


> My pleasure @Prosper. I'm loving this conversation as well. Great points too. If I had to put a finger on it, I think it would be like mentioned earlier. Smackdown revolves around the Roman Reigns story and they are doing a great job with it in my opinion and the undercard is just a nice little bonus to me. His feud with Kevin Owens started off meh, with Owens questioning what Roman has become, and then Roman just keeps beating the shit out of him and cheating him out of the title every chance he gets because he let this whole head of the table thing get to his head and felt disrespected. Not the greatest storyline ever but its executed well by everyone involved. Personally, I like that sort of stuff better then just chaos. I like having the show be centered around one main storyline, but thats just me.
> 
> You did make some good points that changed my mind. For example their women's division is solid and has good talent, you are right. And they do give us some good womens matches. WWE usually delivers great womens matches on ppv, but not so much on regular episodes. Its just hard to be invested in any of them when it feels like they don't care about any of them. Personally, I would put Baker as the next champion and then eventually Rosa.
> 
> Also I see your point with their storylines and you're right. They do have a starting point, and a reason for the feud. It's just to me at least that their feuds also just lack a lot of meat, if that even makes sense. They seem so bare bones for most of them. Like there is not a lot of content in there.
> 
> But overall, I enjoy AEW for what it is. Yea, I normally don't watch the whole show, but its good enough. Personally I'm really hoping that when the crowds come back they will go back to how they were pre covid. It felt more sports oriented and serious back then. I enjoyed that a lot.


Feuds in AEW while incredible could use an extra layer or two on top of what they give us I will say. Darby and Sting's storyline for example is great but it could be so much better if they just went deeper into why Sting and Darby are aligned. Or FTR/Bucks could have gone deeper into their history and why they are feuding but they just gave us level 1 and left out level 2, 3 and 4. They weren't holding back as much pre-COVID. The show still gives me the enjoyment and entertainment that I expect and want from wrestling though. I'm not expecting them to be perfect, just entertain me on the level of the Attitude Era or Ruthless Aggression is all I ask I don't really care about the intricacies too much, and they haven't disappointed for me yet.

The Roman Reigns heel turn has been fire though. I don't give WWE a lot of credit these days but I'm loving Roman Reigns alone as much as I'm loving Dynamite. I haven't felt that way about anything in WWE since Shawn Michaels and Triple H fought for 40 minutes in Hell in a Cell. Centering the show around Roman has been working, I won't deny that, and it does give the show an actual focus so it comes off like an actual 2 hour story which is why Hollywood movies for example work so well, I guess for me I just like my wrestling show to be chaotic lol. I want everything happening at once with different storylines intersecting. It's more exciting. For me PAC who is upper mid-card or Darby who is straight-up mid-card feeling as important as Kenny Omega is how I like it. 



RapShepard said:


> The model just works best. The end of the day we all know what story means the most, so downplaying it to make others seem equally as important does much of nothing. The best presentation of Kenny's story was last week where you had his story arc playing out all through out the episode. He's the main character right now, treat him as such. That doesn't mean others can't get to shine in his shadow, but let the complimentary pieces be complimentary.
> 
> As far as why SmackDown is better it comes down to memorable stories for me. We watch about 300 matches on each brand a year. So matches tend to blend together save a few, regardless of show.
> 
> The Sasha vs Bayley saga and Reigns heel turn and Jey feud are going to be long term memorable for me. They also had fun midcard shit I liked such as Sheamus and Jeff, the finish of the Mysterio angle, the IC title scene after Sami left was also fun with all the mini-feuds AJ was in.
> 
> 
> AEW on the flip only had one story that had that level of top and they botched the end. I think had Kenny and Page's story didn't fall off the cliff and into a stupid tournament arc after they lost the tag titles, it would've been a shoe in for best story given how much it helped Page and how it had great moments like the Bucks stop in February or even the unsteady alliance for Stadium Stampede. If they were going to have Kenny turn heel, it should've been on Page after the loss.
> 
> Ultimately I think their PPV and special structure is what is keeping them from telling great stories. They have glimpses like that promo between Mox and Eddie. Or even the beginning of FTR vs The Bucks. But they always do some weird pivot that loses steam for the stories. Or they don't have enough time to build the story because they have a short build to a special and already have something planned for the PPV.


For me I like the opposite model more as said above. I want storylines intersecting and multiple talents interacting with each other at the same time. It comes off as more organic and not as scripted. As more gritty, underground, or real. Kenny Omega's story feels just as important as Death Triangle re-forming and rising in prominence or Darby/Sting feuding with Team Taz. Or even Jade vs Red Velvet. I want to go from storyline to storyline in a single show and feel like everything feels important or worthy of watching. I should be hyped the whole time or at least 85% of the time and that's what I get when I watch Dynamite. Every feud on the card should be giving off a main event feel even if it's not for title gold. That's why you'll see all kinds of matches main eventing Dynamite because everything feels big or talent are being showcased in the right way.

Roman/Jey and Sasha/Bayley will be memorable for me as well. I also look at Darby/Cody, Kingston/Moxley and a lot of the feuds on AEW as memorable too. So I do enjoy both shows. Your Sheamus and Jeff was Santana and Ortiz and Best Friends Parking Lot Brawl for me lol. 

I think with the story thing they just need to continue building to their specials so something good is always happening. Some of their stories do kind of change abruptly though. Like I don't know wtf happened to the FTR/Bucks feud lol. As long as it's not offensive most of the time though then I'm good with it. Hangman for example I would rather wait for his redemption story on his way back to Omega than just having Omega go heel at All Out and they do the whole feud right at Full Gear. I like the longer term build. I like the 4 PPV a year model personally, I haven't been disappointed with any of their PPV's and the shows just feel bigger being that there is so few.


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> For me I like the opposite model more as said above. I want storylines intersecting and multiple talents interacting with each other at the same time. It comes off as more organic and not as scripted. As more gritty, underground, or real. Kenny Omega's story feels just as important as Death Triangle re-forming and rising in prominence or Darby/Sting feuding with Team Taz. Or even Jade vs Red Velvet. I want to go from storyline to storyline in a single show and feel like everything feels important or worthy of watching. I should be hyped the whole time or at least 85% of the time and that's what I get when I watch Dynamite. Every feud on the card should be giving off a main event feel even if it's not for title gold. That's why you'll see all kinds of matches main eventing Dynamite because everything feels big or talent are being showcased in the right way.
> 
> Roman/Jey and Sasha/Bayley will be memorable for me as well. I also look at Darby/Cody, Kingston/Moxley and a lot of the feuds on AEW as memorable too. So I do enjoy both shows. Your Sheamus and Jeff was Santana and Ortiz and Best Friends Parking Lot Brawl for me lol.
> 
> I think with the story thing they just need to continue building to their specials so something good is always happening. Some of their stories do kind of change abruptly though. Like I don't know wtf happened to the FTR/Bucks feud lol. As long as it's not offensive most of the time though then I'm good with it. Hangman for example I would rather wait for his redemption story on his way back to Omega than just having Omega go heel at All Out and they do the whole feud right at Full Gear. I like the longer term build. I like the 4 PPV a year model personally, I haven't been disappointed with any of their PPV's and the shows just feel bigger being that there is so few.


I think you're mixing enjoying with just as important. You like Death Triangle reforming, but it's not as important as Kenny's heel turn and Impact things. 

For me the multi interactions don't feel natural, because they rarely make sense. So while it's nice to see roster interactions it means nothing if it's convoluted. Which Moxley kind of killed the storyline for in his promo. The storyline is ambitious, it just doesn't have the level of writing to handle it properly. Sometimes it's better to keep it simple. Instead of doing 5 things in Kenny invading impact, him reteaming with The Good Brothers, Moxley chasing him, Callis trying to break up the Bucks from him, and Death Triangle reforming all at once. Maybe do 1 or 2 really well. Then build to the others. Because honestly there's enough story there to where this could've been enough programming to make it to All Out 3. 

Maybe first he invades Impact and joins forces with The Good Brothers winning the Impact title at Hard to Kill. 

Moxley finally returns and tries to fight them solo and gets put on the shelf at Revolution 2. At this time your sowing the seeds of The Bucks being worried

The Bucks finally step in because they're worried that he may be too for gone because the beating he put on Moxley is new territory for him and they're scared. They end up getting beat up along with Rich Swann and Moose at DoN 3 losing their titles in a Winner Takes All 6 man tag. 

Next up can be Death Triangle who've been killing it as faces for about 6 months giving people time to really get behind them. Pac motivation can be something like "I may be a bastard, but I'm not a bitch. I've been in companies ruled by tyrants, but I told myself I'd never go through that again". Lucha Bros can win the tag titles returning those home to AEW. Then who knows what you do with Omega vs Pac. Maybe Pac wins, maybe Kenny gets a new recruit from a soon to be conquered promotion. 

I think that works better than throwing everything together at once. They're really good with foreshadowing, so I think they'd be better served doing that, to hint towards new feuds. Versus feuds plenty of folk.


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> Maybe they should have fined or suspended Chris Jericho for spreading Covid? This is an American problem that is not going to go away with how business powers like the WWE and AEW have handled it. Most places around the world are able to have people at live events again, because we don’t go into massive denial and basically serve as the perfect harbingers for a virus.
> 
> Don’t want to get too far off topic, but it’s relevant because I don’t know if crowds are coming back anytime soon with how it’s been handled over there. I haven’t checked this out myself, but I’ve heard things about unrestricted US travel not being a possibility until 2022.
> 
> Crowds aren’t just magically going to come back.





The Wood said:


> Maybe they should have fined or suspended Chris Jericho for spreading Covid? This is an American problem that is not going to go away with how business powers like the WWE and AEW have handled it. Most places around the world are able to have people at live events again, because we don’t go into massive denial and basically serve as the perfect harbingers for a virus.
> 
> Don’t want to get too far off topic, but it’s relevant because I don’t know if crowds are coming back anytime soon with how it’s been handled over there. I haven’t checked this out myself, but I’ve heard things about unrestricted US travel not being a possibility until 2022.
> 
> Crowds aren’t just magically going to come back.


not sure what your point is?


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> I think you're mixing enjoying with just as important. You like Death Triangle reforming, but it's not as important as Kenny's heel turn and Impact things.
> 
> For me the multi interactions don't feel natural, because they rarely make sense. So while it's nice to see roster interactions it means nothing if it's convoluted. Which Moxley kind of killed the storyline for in his promo. The storyline is ambitious, it just doesn't have the level of writing to handle it properly. Sometimes it's better to keep it simple. Instead of doing 5 things in Kenny invading impact, him reteaming with The Good Brothers, Moxley chasing him, Callis trying to break up the Bucks from him, and Death Triangle reforming all at once. Maybe do 1 or 2 really well. Then build to the others. Because honestly there's enough story there to where this could've been enough programming to make it to All Out 3.
> 
> Maybe first he invades Impact and joins forces with The Good Brothers winning the Impact title at Hard to Kill.
> 
> Moxley finally returns and tries to fight them solo and gets put on the shelf at Revolution 2. At this time your sowing the seeds of The Bucks being worried
> 
> The Bucks finally step in because they're worried that he may be too for gone because the beating he put on Moxley is new territory for him and they're scared. They end up getting beat up along with Rich Swann and Moose at DoN 3 losing their titles in a Winner Takes All 6 man tag.
> 
> Next up can be Death Triangle who've been killing it as faces for about 6 months giving people time to really get behind them. Pac motivation can be something like "I may be a bastard, but I'm not a bitch. I've been in companies ruled by tyrants, but I told myself I'd never go through that again". Lucha Bros can win the tag titles returning those home to AEW. Then who knows what you do with Omega vs Pac. Maybe Pac wins, maybe Kenny gets a new recruit from a soon to be conquered promotion.
> 
> I think that works better than throwing everything together at once. They're really good with foreshadowing, so I think they'd be better served doing that, to hint towards new feuds. Versus feuds plenty of folk.


Those are some good ideas on how to build the current feud, but I don't feel like the multi-interactions across are senseless at all, nothing is confusing for me and it feels "realer" more so than just having a set script and having person A only interact with person B then interact with person C only once the feud is over with A and B. PAC being involved with Kingston and Omega at the same time is great to me but I do understand what you mean by doing 2 things to the best of their ability before adding new layers. Makes for deeper storytelling. 

When I say feel as important yes I mean enjoyment level not relevance to the actual main event scene.


----------



## Garty

The Wood said:


> Yes, Garty, because usually what you link is irrelevant and there to derail conversation. And again I was right. How is it “holy shit” when it turned out to be spot-on?
> 
> No, it wasn’t just a spelling mistake. It was a spelling mistake in an allegedly professional article that obviously wasn’t even proof-read before uploading. Ace stuff there. It was also that the article _specifically states that NCIS won the night with viewership_. You pissed on your own leg, Garty.
> 
> What does Variety echoing Showbuzz’s ratings have to do with _anything_? See, this is what I mean: You argue with shit clanging around in your own head. Never have I said that Showbuzz’s ratings aren’t the numbers given by Nielsen. I’ve just said that the emphasis on the key demo is archaic, gimmicky and limiting in scope. You then share an article that...reports their numbers? Okay...so what?
> 
> I’ve spoken about diversity and different demographics from the start. Wtf are you talking about? It has always been one of my core arguments against putting so much emphasis on the demo. How is it shifting a goal-post when it has been your A1 argument forever?
> 
> Other arguments against the key demo:
> 
> -Socio-economic changes means that people in the 18-49 demo don’t necessarily have the disposal income or access to cable that they would have had two decades ago.
> 
> -There is value in targeting other demos. Especially on cable.
> 
> -Measuring participation of these demos is actually pretty difficult. What if someone in the key demo watches at another location? Or someone’s cable is registered to a person in the demo but it is watched by an older person visiting them?
> 
> And you link me to an article saying NCIS won the night with viewership? Okay.


Where's your horse? Did it suddenly recover and run-off? I derail threads?  That's your complete M-O... talk long enough about all kinds of things and people forget what it is you're talking about (self-inflicted wound). There was a reason I called your early AEW posts, essays. Anyone can look it up.

The spelling mistake? Really Woody? You're going to harp on this? Maybe we should all take a scroll down memory lane and check to see if you've made any spelling gaffes because you're a self-proclaimed expert on these things?

You still _*don't*_ see that the ratings that Variety reports _*are the same*_ as what Showbuzz Daily reports?! Again, as I said to you already, don't pay attention to the title/topic of the link I posted... it's a breakdown of ALL TV ratings for that specific night, NCIS or not! Click this link and it will bring you to Variety's TV ratings pages/articles (choose as many as you want), where, just like Showbuzz Daily does, gives you daily viewing numbers and demos. I also linked you to the subsidiary of Nielsen, where you can actually request a demographic report for any date and time you wish. Unlike the previous link, you completely ignored that part of my post.

You've said dozens of times now, even this week, that "if you believe Showbuzz Daily's (or Meltzer's spin) numbers... blah, blah, blah". I've also given you links to articles that say, "the only thing that matters, is the demo". Before you get all cocky, what I'm saying, is that across all platforms, all reports, all break down *BOTH*, TV *AND* demo numbers. They are what they are. There is no "spin", if all those publishers report the same conclusions made. I've also told you that in 2024, Nielsen is changing the way they gather and calculate their information. I can't believe it's so hard for you to understand the point. Well, I know why... it was just a metaphor.

All aspects of demos are important, yes, but unless Nielsen has your Ancestry.com profile to pin-point exactly who/where/what you are (even in 2024?) it may not change. However, they're just a generalization, but it still doesn't make them any less credible. The numbers, are the numbers. I really hate getting into these race-bait topics, but truthfully, looking at a map of the USA, you know already where most live, reside. Good neighborhood or a bad neighborhood. Population density. Etc. The National Census is used for all kinds of things... funding, schooling, zoning, housing, food, maintenance, hospitals, Fire/EMS/Police, etc. etc. Hell, the US Presidential Election was two months ago, where you have a complete breakdown of all aspects of demographics.

I have nothing left to say Woody. I've addressed all angles of your argument. There's enough there already.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Nevermind, I didn't see it was already posted


----------



## The Wood

Danielallen1410 said:


> not sure what your point is?


If AEW can’t wait for crowds to come back because that will somehow magically increase the quality of their creative output, maybe pieces of shit who spread Covid and slow the whole process down should be penalised instead of pampered?



Garty is All Elite said:


> Where's your horse? Did it suddenly recover and run-off? I derail threads?  That's your complete M-O... talk long enough about all kinds of things and people forget what it is you're talking about (self-inflicted wound). There was a reason I called your early AEW posts, essays. Anyone can look it up.
> 
> The spelling mistake? Really Woody? You're going to harp on this? Maybe we should all take a scroll down memory lane and check to see if you've made any spelling gaffes because you're a self-proclaimed expert on these things?
> 
> You still _*don't*_ see that the ratings that Variety reports _*are the same*_ as what Showbuzz Daily reports?! Again, as I said to you already, don't pay attention to the title/topic of the link I posted... it's a breakdown of ALL TV ratings for that specific night, NCIS or not! Click this link and it will bring you to Variety's TV ratings pages/articles (choose as many as you want), where, just like Showbuzz Daily does, gives you daily viewing numbers and demos. I also linked you to the subsidiary of Nielsen, where you can actually request a demographic report for any date and time you wish. Unlike the previous link, you completely ignored that part of my post.
> 
> You've said dozens of times now, even this week, that "if you believe Showbuzz Daily's (or Meltzer's spin) numbers... blah, blah, blah". I've also given you links to articles that say, "the only thing that matters, is the demo". Before you get all cocky, what I'm saying, is that across all platforms, all reports, all break down *BOTH*, TV *AND* demo numbers. They are what they are. There is no "spin", if all those publishers report the same conclusions made. I've also told you that in 2024, Nielsen is changing the way they gather and calculate their information. I can't believe it's so hard for you to understand the point. Well, I know why... it was just a metaphor.
> 
> All aspects of demos are important, yes, but unless Nielsen has your Ancestry.com profile to pin-point exactly who/where/what you are (even in 2024?) it may not change. However, they're just a generalization, but it still doesn't make them any less credible. The numbers, are the numbers. I really hate getting into these race-bait topics, but truthfully, looking at a map of the USA, you know already where most live, reside. Good neighborhood or a bad neighborhood. Population density. Etc. The National Census is used for all kinds of things... funding, schooling, zoning, housing, food, maintenance, hospitals, Fire/EMS/Police, etc. etc. Hell, the US Presidential Election was two months ago, where you have a complete breakdown of all aspects of demographics.
> 
> I have nothing left to say Woody. I've addressed all angles of your argument. There's enough there already.


Jesus Christ, you can’t lobby those criticisms at me with that much lack of awareness, can you? Yeah, I can type a lot, but I think even my biggest detractors on here would admit I at least make good points. I’m a sharp guy. Stop trying to dismiss me based on slander.

Yes, you do derail threads. That’s fucking obvious. I’m not going to read the whole thing, because it no doubt breaks into nonsense (I’m seeing things about EMTs and race...just fuck _off_), but I’ll respond to your first two actual points that respond to something I actually said.

It’s not about a spelling mistake, it’s about a spelling mistake in an allegedly professionally written article. How do you not get that? If a report is called “The Hsitory of Greece” are you going to fucking trust it? No, because it’s poorly written click-bait trash. This is the article you chose to share in regards to Variety’s credibility as a journalistic force in 2021. The author of that literally cannot spell “NBC.” Plus, the article you shared backs up _my_ points. It literally starts by citing viewership as the means by which NCIS won the night, then adding that it just so happened to also win 18-49. Did you not fucking read your own shit?

Yes, I can see that the Variety article uses the same numbers as Showbuzz. Did you miss the part where I said *who gives a fuck? I’ve never doubted that the numbers Showbuzz uses aren’t roughly accurate (within a 10% margin). The point is that the emphasis they place on them is woo.* Why do you think saying “See?! The numbers are the same?! See?! See?! 💩” is a good fucking point? I’m not saying the numbers aren’t the same, and never have. I’m saying you don’t know shit to do with them. Evidently.


----------



## Mister Sinister

The best thing Dynamite has done in 2021 was Moxley vs Super Caveman. Give me Super Caveman every week. Caveman has the 'it factor.' I felt it. He looks like Macho Man and Goldberg had a baby that Medusa carried to term.


----------



## Garty

The Wood said:


> If AEW can’t wait for crowds to come back because that will somehow magically increase the quality of their creative output, maybe pieces of shit who spread Covid and slow the whole process down should be penalised instead of pampered?
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus Christ, you can’t lobby those criticisms at me with that much lack of awareness, can you? Yeah, I can type a lot, but I think even my biggest detractors on here would admit I at least make good points. I’m a sharp guy. Stop trying to dismiss me based on slander.
> 
> Yes, you do derail threads. That’s fucking obvious. I’m not going to read the whole thing, because it no doubt breaks into nonsense (I’m seeing things about EMTs and race...just fuck _off_), but I’ll respond to your first two actual points that respond to something I actually said.
> 
> It’s not about a spelling mistake, it’s about a spelling mistake in an allegedly professionally written article. How do you not get that? If a report is called “The Hsitory of Greece” are you going to fucking trust it? No, because it’s poorly written click-bait trash. This is the article you chose to share in regards to Variety’s credibility as a journalistic force in 2021. The author of that literally cannot spell “NBC.” Plus, the article you shared backs up _my_ points. It literally starts by citing viewership as the means by which NCIS won the night, then adding that it just so happened to also win 18-49. Did you not fucking read your own shit?
> 
> Yes, I can see that the Variety article uses the same numbers as Showbuzz. Did you miss the part where I said *who gives a fuck? I’ve never doubted that the numbers Showbuzz uses aren’t roughly accurate (within a 10% margin). The point is that the emphasis they place on them is woo.* Why do you think saying “See?! The numbers are the same?! See?! See?! 💩” is a good fucking point? I’m not saying the numbers aren’t the same, and never have. I’m saying you don’t know shit to do with them. Evidently.


You're always right about everything aren't you Woody?! Anyone other than those who share your same opinions and "facts", are just always talking hyperbole, nonsense, untruths, uninformed shit, huh? You question my writing, but no one is able to critique yours? You're a total hypocrite. By the way, you post on a wrestling forum. If anyone who has besmirched your "good-name", it's you. You've put yourself out there, coming off as this "better than thou" prick. Nothing positive comes out of that egotistical, elitist mouth of yours. I've obviously rattled you in some way because I've never seen that much vulgarity out of you. Ever. You constantly shit on the product when you don't even watch... right... you belittle any user who enjoys the product... you've always got an answer for something you don't agree with - even a fucking opinion, curating possible scenarios of the product's imminent demise and it just goes on and on with you. Here's a serious question. If AEW closed tomorrow, would that help you in validating all of your theories about how bad the product is for the business?

Tell me where I went wrong Woody. I could have picked ANY of the articles on the page, I scrolled down clicked on it, read it and that was the one I chose. Not because of some agenda. Again with the typo thing?! You really want me to go through your post history, don't your? <----  That's why I've said to you multiple times now, PICK ANY OF THE ARTICLES AND THEY'RE ALL ABOUT THE NUMBERS AND DEMOS. The show doesn't matter, it's used as an example. And since you mentioned that you never said that you don't believe Showbuzz Daily's data, you've said it a few times in this very thread, just in the past two days...

*Your honor:*
_Not an entertainment website and glorified gossip page._ _And yes, Showbuzz and Variety are gossip rags. I’ll just clarify that I don’t think it’s that the demo isn’t important at all, I just don’t think it is as important as Meltzer and the like says, and that other metrics (without that demo and outside it) matter more. Yes, they’re going to cancel NXT because it doesn’t chart on Showbuzz Daily. I don’t think anyone really puts any stock into Showbuzz Daily or the 18-39 demo for wrestling. Let’s use Showbuzz and Variety to justify the existence of Showbuzz and Variety. _*I rest my case.*

Here are some bonus Wood-Words... _AEW’s ratings hold up because there is a rabid wrestling audience that watches religiously._ *So what is it? Nobody watches, or only rabid fans watch?! Pick one.* _Of course they’re not wrestling fans (anymore). Wrestling sucks now. That’s why it’s niche._ *Again, pick one.* _Why do AEW fanboys hate wrestling so much?_ *Choose to clarify?* _Ratings only really matter to wrestling reporters these days._ *Are you really sure about this one?* _And I am the most wrestling obsessed person I know._ I*f a narcissist says this about himself, well then, it must be true, right?! *


----------



## Garty

Mister Sinister said:


> The best thing Dynamite has done in 2021 was Moxley vs Super Caveman. Give me Super Caveman every week. Caveman has the 'it factor.' I felt it. He looks like Macho Man and Goldberg had a baby that Medusa carried to term.


Medusa? I completely agree on the Macho Man/Goldberg cross-over, but besides Medusa being the child-bearer...?


----------



## The Wood

Garty is All Elite said:


> You're always right about everything aren't you Woody?! Anyone other than those who share your same opinions and "facts", are just always talking hyperbole, nonsense, untruths, uninformed shit, huh?


I’m going to cut you off there. This is garbage. I never said that and have many plentiful back and forth discussions with the people on here capable of having them. Instead of responding to my actual points, you go on some sarcastic, sardonic, sideways, tangential tantrum. Not everyone talks shit Garty, but you *always* do. Like you are *right there.*


----------



## Garty

The Wood said:


> I’m going to cut you off there. This is garbage. *I never said that* and have many plentiful back and forth discussions with the people on here capable of having them. Instead of responding to my actual points, you go on some sarcastic, sardonic, sideways, tangential tantrum. Not everyone talks shit Garty, but you *always* do. Like you are *right there.*


 Okay then junior, I'll leave you alone now. I'll give you a Vince McMahon promise and you know when Vince gives you a guarantee, you can take it to the bank. However... there is one more thing before I go, *"I never said that"?! *


----------



## bdon

Klitschko said:


> Completely agree here. Smackdown is probably the best wrestling show on television right now. Like you said, Roman is the best thing in wrestling and the shows midcard is great as well. Daniel Bryan matches, Big E is a good intercontinental champion and there is some fun stuff with their women's division and tag division currently. AEW is better then NXT and RAW, but Smackdown tops them all in my opinion.
> 
> Any thoughts on next weeks rating @bdon?


I’d say it will be a decent rating. 825k or more. That was a great fucking episode this past week without any surprise debuts or shock twists. Just great pro wrestling.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> why you tagging me?
> 
> i agreed with you 100%


No, you did not. You were in love with the idea of them giving a segment to a fucking 8 year old.


----------



## Pippen94

Wait, did @bdon predict blackout which lasted about an hour for some viewers?!
If not then he gets no credit.


----------



## The Wood

Garty is All Elite said:


> Okay then junior, I'll leave you alone now. I'll give you a Vince McMahon promise and you know when Vince gives you a guarantee, you can take it to the bank. However... there is one more thing before I go, *"I never said that"?! *


Wtf even is this post? You need professional help, Garty. Go seek it out.


Pippen94 said:


> Wait, did @bdon predict blackout which lasted about an hour for some viewers?!
> If not then he gets no credit.


Lol, stop with the excuses. There’s always something that stops people watching AEW right?

bdon was right. Ya’ll look silly denying him.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> No, you did not. You were in love with the idea of them giving a segment to a fucking 8 year old.


doesn’t sound like me at all

you might need to quote some of my posts to remind me


----------



## Danielallen1410

So now you’re back to virtue signalling like chip.

let’s face it you couldn’t give a shit about covid, you just want to dig out AEW and make yourself look caring and compassionate in doing so.

As for your comments on the crowd, There are numerous things both wwe and AEW have done over the past 11 months which would have been much more enjoyable with a crowd.

wrestling isn’t the same without proper pops etc, that’s a fact not an opinion.


----------



## Klitschko

I hope the show tomorrow does well, but it seems like Edge is going to be on NXT actually doing the usual royal rumble winner thing where they go to each show and try to make you guess which champion he will chose. So you know what that means? Here is everyone's weekly excuse if AEW doesn't get a great rating tomorow.


----------



## One Shed

Klitschko said:


> I hope the show tomorrow does well, but it seems like Edge is going to be on NXT actually doing the usual royal rumble winner thing where they go to each show and try to make you guess which champion he will chose. So you know what that means? Here is everyone's weekly excuse if AEW doesn't get a great rating tomorow.


No wonder they replaced FTR with the Dark Order geeks and added a Luther match. Gotta bring out the big guns.


----------



## The Wood

The WWE actually trying again with NXT is not a good thing for AEW.


----------



## Dark Emperor

The Wood said:


> The WWE actually trying again with NXT is not a good thing for AEW.


They are not trying. This is a one off. Edge appearing for a 15min segment (at most) should not be enough for NXT to suddenly gain more viewership than AEW. 

AEW should comfortably win but if it doesn't, then it's not a great look for them as they are running a TV special. Although these shows are not special at all as there is one every few weeks.


----------



## Aedubya

Where is the dynamite show thread?
Any link to a page please?


----------



## fabi1982

Aedubya said:


> Where is the dynamite show thread?
> Any link to a page please?


I guess you blocked OP from that thread. Only reason I can image why you dont find the thread


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1357434840488972291

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1357434509805768704

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

NXT did 610k (0.15 demo).

AEW's demo was 0.32

Very good night for AEW.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Good rating and demo


----------



## ProjectGargano

Very good rating. Edge isn't a draw anymore.


----------



## rbl85

What is challenge double agent ?

Women seems to like it a lot.


----------



## BPG

So Edge didn't help ? 😭


----------



## Prosper

Nice rating, next week should be even better with the unsanctioned main event being announced and the NJPW buzz.

Surprised NXT didn't chart with Edge being on the show honestly. I guess 610K is OK for them though.


----------



## Kentucky34

Bad number for both. 

AEW should have been over a million with the hype it had.


----------



## rbl85

Prosper said:


> Nice rating, next week should be even better with the unsanctioned main event being announced and the NJPW buzz.
> 
> Surprised NXT didn't chart with Edge being on the show honestly. I guess 610K is OK for them though.


They didn't really promoted it


----------



## RapShepard

Top 3 solid viewership and demo, good bounce back.


----------



## Alright_Mate

Very decent rating.

They’ll hit 1 million if they get in Suzuki to beat the shit out of Marko Stunt.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> What is challenge double agent ?
> 
> Women seems to like it a lot.


It's a game show that spun off from The Real World and Road Rules reality shows from the 90s and 2000s


----------



## fabi1982

Top3 is always good. But for a special like beach break with your two top guys in the ME is 0.32 and below 850 really a good rating? I remember couple month ago even with news competition they got better demo and they were channeling for the 0.4s.

and to the people laughing about Edge, he wasnt even promoted on RAW to be in NXT, so I dont get that.

anyways top3 is always good, at least for NXT. A constantly top 3 (this week pos.1-3) RAW seems to be doomed for years


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Very solid rating no. 3 is impressive


----------



## Aedubya

Where is the dynamite show thread?
Any link to a page please?


----------



## Mr316

Same old numbers. Won’t go much higher. Whatever.


----------



## Outlaw91

fabi1982 said:


> anyways top3 is always good, at least for NXT. A constantly top 3 (this week pos.1-3)


Do you mean 1.SD, 2.Raw, 3.NXT?


----------



## fabi1982

Outlaw91 said:


> Do you mean 1.SD, 2.Raw, 3.NXT?


I mean hour1-3 from RAW. I made a mistake the sentence before with writing NXT, but meant AEW.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Top 3, good demo, good number, good times, good brothers


----------



## Dark Emperor

Pretty average rating for a special. So we went from among for 1m for specials to now celebrating 844k with no major competition like sports or major news events.

They need another major signing to get over 1m. A younger guy that can actually do something and not a geriatric Sting who people cared about for a week.


----------



## justin waynes

ProjectGargano said:


> Very good rating. Edge isn't a draw anymore.


This has nothing to do with edge and most people didnt know edge will show up


----------



## Outlaw91

justin waynes said:


> This has nothing to do with edge and most people didnt know edge will show up


Of course people didn't know, that's why they were more than 100k shorter than the previous week.


----------



## Mr316

Edge is not a draw. Never was. Great talent no doubt about that but not a draw.


----------



## DammitChrist

I’d pay to see Edge perform tbh.

Anyway, it’s good to see the show being consistent in quality (and quantity) this week :bjpenn


----------



## Klitschko

Same, about Edge. Plus he did pop a good rating a few times back in the day from what I remember. Other then just the live sex celebration segment.


----------



## ProjectGargano

justin waynes said:


> This has nothing to do with edge and most people didnt know edge will show up


I was kidding. Edge is one of my all time favourites.


----------



## zaz102

Loser Leaves AEW Forum Update (2020 vs 2021 Average Viewership)
If 2020 Average Viewership is higher than 2021, I leave the board. Otherwise, Ozell Grey leaves.

JAN 2020 - 910,600
JAN 2021 - 753,000

Overall 2020 - 812,580
Overall 2021 - 771,200

I'll probably post these quarterly.


----------



## rbl85

Comparing january 2020 with january 2021 is kind of stupid.


----------



## ECFuckinW

zaz102 said:


> Loser Leaves AEW Forum Update (2020 vs 2021 Average Viewership)
> If 2020 Average Viewership is higher than 2021, I leave the board. Otherwise, Ozell Grey leaves.
> 
> JAN 2020 - 910,600
> JAN 2021 - 753,000
> 
> Overall 2020 - 812,580
> Overall 2021 - 771,200
> 
> I'll probably post these quarterly.


Ozell been permanently banned so safe to say you win.


----------



## Pippen94

zaz102 said:


> Loser Leaves AEW Forum Update (2020 vs 2021 Average Viewership)
> If 2020 Average Viewership is higher than 2021, I leave the board. Otherwise, Ozell Grey leaves.
> 
> JAN 2020 - 910,600
> JAN 2021 - 753,000
> 
> Overall 2020 - 812,580
> Overall 2021 - 771,200
> 
> I'll probably post these quarterly.


Ozell Grey's gone already chief


----------



## Pippen94

@bdon said bad show saw them drive off large % of 850k rating. 
This week 844k. Guess they came back?!

...Or maybe bigger shows just do better ratings like I've always said.


----------



## bdon

bdon said:


> I’d say it will be a decent rating. 825k or more. That was a great fucking episode this past week without any surprise debuts or shock twists. Just great pro wrestling.


I was on the money.

Given the ending to this week’s show and the advertised tag match next week, I’m going to predict 880k to 930k for next week.

As always, the rating this week has nothing to do with what happened THIS week. The rating that came out today is a reward for the awesome episode last week.


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> I was on the money.
> 
> Given the ending to this week’s show and the advertised tag match next week, I’m going to predict 880k to 930k for next week.
> 
> As always, the rating this week has nothing to do with what happened THIS week. The rating that came out today is a reward for the awesome episode last week.


Give it a rest. 
Anybody who values your opinion or predictions doesn't know ratings.
Show this week did same number as week it apparently drove away fans for good.
Now you're predicting bump because closing angle - no shit!!


----------



## thorn123

It was an event show so expect the higher rating. AEW has been good (not regularly great) and cannot rest on their laurels. I think if they can ever get to a million and hold it, they can be deemed a success.


----------



## Pippen94

DaveRA said:


> It was an event show so expect the higher rating. AEW has been good (not regularly great) and cannot rest on their laurels. I think if they can ever get to a million and hold it, they can be deemed a success.


#3 show for night - company is a success


----------



## Randy Lahey

Solid rating for AEW. Terrible rating for NXT. 844-610 is a blowout. Demos even worse


----------



## Geeee

NXT is lucky that USA and WWE have such a great relationship. I feel bad for HHH because he's definitely never getting the keys to the main roster WWE. It sucks because I personally like his vision for NXT way more than I like Raw. (even though I never watch either anymore)


----------



## Aedubya

Geeee said:


> I feel bad for HHH because he's definitely never getting the keys to the main roster WWE.


Why not?


----------



## Geeee

Aedubya said:


> Why not?


As far as I understand it, Triple H is the Vince McMahon of NXT. I just don't see a future where Raw becomes "more like NXT", since NXT seems to be struggling to find an audience. Especially, since WWE is a publicly traded company.


----------



## Not Lying

*Here are the quarter-by-quarter numbers for AEW:

Q1: Tag Team Battle Royal – 952,000 viewers, 417,000 in 18-49
Q2: Jade Cargill video/Sting & Darby Allin & Team Taz promo – 866,000 viewers (down 86,000), 400,000 in 18-49 (down 17,000)
Q3: Britt Baker vs. Thunder Rosa/Matt Hardy & Hangman Page promo – 868,000 viewers (up 2,000), 401,000 in 18-49 (up 1,000)
Q4: Page & Hardy vs. Chaos Project/Women’s Tournament announcement/Inner Circle segment – 771,000 viewers (down 97,000), 391,000 in 18-49 (down 10,000)
Q5: The Wedding of Kip Sabian and Penelope Ford – 868,000 viewers (up 97,000), 427,000 in 18-49 (up 36,000)
Q6: Eddie Kingston vs. Lance Archer/FTR promo – 855,000 viewers (down 13,000), 436,000 in 18-49 (up 9,000)
Q7: Joey Janela interview/preview for next week/entrances for main event – 770,000 viewers (down 85,000), 384,000 in 18-49 (down 52,000)
Q8: Kenny Omega & The Good Brothers vs. Jon Moxley, PAC & Rey Fenix – 804,000 viewers (up 34,000), 409,000 in 18-49 (up 25,000)

And here’s the breakdown of NXT by quarters:

Q1: Dakota Kai & Raquel Gonzalez vs. Kacy Catanzaro & Kayden Carter – 713,000 viewers, 205,000 in 18-49
Q2: Toni Storm interview/Edge & William Regal segment/Austin Theory vs. Leon Ruff – 652,000 viewers (down 61,000), 199,000 in 18-49 (down 6,000)
Q3: End of Theory vs. Ruff/Legado del Fantasma video/Tian Shan video/Legado del Fantasma vs. Lucha House Party – 612,000 viewers (down 40,000), 191,000 in 18-49 (down 8,000)
Q4: End of Legado del Fantasma vs. Lucha House Party – 594,000 viewers (down 18,000), 190,000 in 18-49 (down 1,000)
Q5: Edge, Finn Balor & Pete Dunne segment/Johnny Gargano & KUSHIDA segment/Toni Storm vs. Jessi Kamea – 618,000 viewers (up 24,000), 202,000 in 18-49 (up 12,000)
Q6: Curt Stallion interview/Stallion vs. Santos Escobar – 577,000 viewers (down 41,000), 173,000 in 18-49 (down down 29,000)
Q7: End of Escobar vs. Stallion/Karrion Kross & Edge segment – 586,000 viewers (up 9,000), 213,000 in 18-49 (up 40,000)
Q8: The Undisputed Era vs. Tommaso Ciampa & Timothy Thatcher – 519,000 viewers (down 67,000), 183,000 in 18-49 (down 30,000)
Overrun: End of Undisputed Era vs. Ciampa & Thatcher – 628,000 viewers (up 109,000), 236,000 in 18-49 (up 53,000)

Source: 411MANIA | Detailed Ratings Breakdown For AEW Beach Break and NXT
Dynamite had a 0.14 in 12-17 (up 75%), 0.14 in 18-34 (up 1%), 0.50 in 35-49 (up 9.6%) and 0.32 in 50+ (up 18.5%). AEW’s audience was 66.2% male in 18-49 and 56.3% male in 12-17. NXT was 61.4% male in 18-49.*


----------



## rbl85

The worst segment ever for some people here was the best rated segment of the night XD

Also the quarters without matches got destroyed, damn.

Also didn't know that there was an NXT overrun, they would have done maybe below 600K without it.


----------



## La Parka

rbl85 said:


> The worst segment ever for some people here was the best rated segment of the night XD
> 
> Also the quarters without matches got destroyed, damn.
> 
> Also didn't know that there was an NXT overrun, they would have done maybe below 600K without it.


The cuck wedding was also highly rated.

Was that a good segment to you?


----------



## Shock Street

YEEESH, I knew people didn't like Chaos Project but a 100k drop is severe


----------



## Not Lying

Q7 lost a lot of viewers and the Q6 was higher than main event. 
Stop putting The Good Brothers in the main event, last weak they had a big drop and the lowest Q too
They’ve done a bad job making people care about them


----------



## rbl85

The Definition of Technician said:


> Q7 lost a lot of viewers and the Q6 was higher than main event.
> Stop putting The Good Brothers in the main event, last weak they had a big drop and the lowest Q too
> They’ve done a bad job making people care about them


The main event was the second highest rating in the 18-49 demo


----------



## 3venflow

The main event had to pull a lot of viewers back after Q7, which was affected by Edge being on NXT by the looks of it.

So the main event rating is okay and look at that wedding... absolutely ruled the key demo and won back a lot of viewers. Makes you wonder if the younger fans would prefer more Attitude Era goofiness.

NXT's rating is seemingly embellished quite often by the overrun. I'm surprised TNT doesn't give AEW any overruns considering it's one of their top original series'.


----------



## Not Lying

rbl85 said:


> The main event was the second highest rating in the 18-49 demo


The Bucks are popular with that crowd, am sure Good Brothers aren’t popular with anyone


----------



## One Shed

Keep Jelly and Luther off TV.


----------



## bdon

La Parka said:


> The cuck wedding was also highly rated.
> 
> Was that a good segment to you?


I deserve to be hogtied and hung out to dry, because I did actually enjoy it. It was my wife’s first taste of seeing what a “wrestling wedding” segment consists of. It was enjoyable watching it through her virgin eyes, able to see the look of confusion, intrigue at where all of this is going, etc. 

An awful, awful wedding segment...and I had fun.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Two Sheds said:


> Keep Jelly and Luther off TV.


Jelly is not that bad, honestly.


----------



## rbl85

3venflow said:


> The main event had to pull a lot of viewers back after Q7, which was affected by Edge being on NXT by the looks of it.
> 
> So the main event rating is okay and look at that wedding... absolutely ruled the key demo and won back a lot of viewers. Makes you wonder if the younger fans would prefer more Attitude Era goofiness.
> 
> NXT's rating is seemingly embellished quite often by the overrun. *I'm surprised TNT doesn't give AEW any overruns considering it's one of their top original series'.*


The day TNT give AEW an overrun that will mean that AEW is really not doing good XD


----------



## rbl85

The Definition of Technician said:


> The Bucks are popular with that crowd, am sure Good Brothers aren’t popular with anyone


I think the youngest viewers like the big moves and seeing guys flying around.


----------



## One Shed

ProjectGargano said:


> Jelly is not that bad, honestly.


Jelly sucks beyond measure. A short, fat, untalented vault of STDs.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Two Sheds said:


> Jelly sucks beyond measure. A short, fat, untalented vault of STDs.


Him versus Darby could be a good match-up. 

He is better than his parter Sonny Kiss btw. 

You can´t affirm that about STD´s. So, Penélope has them now, too? lol


----------



## One Shed

ProjectGargano said:


> Him versus Darby could be a good match-up.
> 
> He is better than his parter Sonny Kiss btw.
> 
> You can´t affirm that about STD´s. So, Penélope has them now, too? lol


She ended up with Kip so...probably?

Saying at least Jelly is better than Sonny is like saying your dog shitting on your linoleum floor at home is better than it shitting on your carpet.


----------



## Prosper

Weddings always do well no matter how much anyone thinks they “suck”. It’s clearly not popular opinion.


----------



## Pippen94

Prosper said:


> Weddings always do well no matter how much anyone thinks they “suck”. It’s clearly not popular opinion.


Underrating Orange Cassidy effect


----------



## Klitschko

The Definition of Technician said:


> *Here are the quarter-by-quarter numbers for AEW:
> 
> Q1: Tag Team Battle Royal – 952,000 viewers, 417,000 in 18-49
> Q2: Jade Cargill video/Sting & Darby Allin & Team Taz promo – 866,000 viewers (down 86,000), 400,000 in 18-49 (down 17,000)
> Q3: Britt Baker vs. Thunder Rosa/Matt Hardy & Hangman Page promo – 868,000 viewers (up 2,000), 401,000 in 18-49 (up 1,000)
> Q4: Page & Hardy vs. Chaos Project/Women’s Tournament announcement/Inner Circle segment – 771,000 viewers (down 97,000), 391,000 in 18-49 (down 10,000)
> Q5: The Wedding of Kip Sabian and Penelope Ford – 868,000 viewers (up 97,000), 427,000 in 18-49 (up 36,000)
> Q6: Eddie Kingston vs. Lance Archer/FTR promo – 855,000 viewers (down 13,000), 436,000 in 18-49 (up 9,000)
> Q7: Joey Janela interview/preview for next week/entrances for main event – 770,000 viewers (down 85,000), 384,000 in 18-49 (down 52,000)
> Q8: Kenny Omega & The Good Brothers vs. Jon Moxley, PAC & Rey Fenix – 804,000 viewers (up 34,000), 409,000 in 18-49 (up 25,000)
> 
> And here’s the breakdown of NXT by quarters:
> 
> Q1: Dakota Kai & Raquel Gonzalez vs. Kacy Catanzaro & Kayden Carter – 713,000 viewers, 205,000 in 18-49
> Q2: Toni Storm interview/Edge & William Regal segment/Austin Theory vs. Leon Ruff – 652,000 viewers (down 61,000), 199,000 in 18-49 (down 6,000)
> Q3: End of Theory vs. Ruff/Legado del Fantasma video/Tian Shan video/Legado del Fantasma vs. Lucha House Party – 612,000 viewers (down 40,000), 191,000 in 18-49 (down 8,000)
> Q4: End of Legado del Fantasma vs. Lucha House Party – 594,000 viewers (down 18,000), 190,000 in 18-49 (down 1,000)
> Q5: Edge, Finn Balor & Pete Dunne segment/Johnny Gargano & KUSHIDA segment/Toni Storm vs. Jessi Kamea – 618,000 viewers (up 24,000), 202,000 in 18-49 (up 12,000)
> Q6: Curt Stallion interview/Stallion vs. Santos Escobar – 577,000 viewers (down 41,000), 173,000 in 18-49 (down down 29,000)
> Q7: End of Escobar vs. Stallion/Karrion Kross & Edge segment – 586,000 viewers (up 9,000), 213,000 in 18-49 (up 40,000)
> Q8: The Undisputed Era vs. Tommaso Ciampa & Timothy Thatcher – 519,000 viewers (down 67,000), 183,000 in 18-49 (down 30,000)
> Overrun: End of Undisputed Era vs. Ciampa & Thatcher – 628,000 viewers (up 109,000), 236,000 in 18-49 (up 53,000)
> 
> Source: 411MANIA | Detailed Ratings Breakdown For AEW Beach Break and NXT
> Dynamite had a 0.14 in 12-17 (up 75%), 0.14 in 18-34 (up 1%), 0.50 in 35-49 (up 9.6%) and 0.32 in 50+ (up 18.5%). AEW’s audience was 66.2% male in 18-49 and 56.3% male in 12-17. NXT was 61.4% male in 18-49.*


Damn, Sting losing that many viewers sucks, but its all on AEW. Same shit week after week after week with him. 

Overall a solid rating.


----------



## Not Lying

Klitschko said:


> Damn, Sting losing that many viewers sucks, but its all on AEW. Same shit week after week after week with him.
> 
> Overall a solid rating.


Q2 also had a good chunk of it in commercials. Commercials can lead to shaving off 200-300K viewers. When Chris Hammerton, AEW’s VP, went on wrestlnomics and showed the graph it was interesting to see this effect. I don’t put much stock in quarter ratings anymore unless it gets consistent for a guy on multiple occasions.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Klitschko said:


> Overall a solid rating.


Really? 

It was a special show that was advertised for weeks.


----------



## Klitschko

NathanMayberry said:


> Really?
> 
> It was a special show that was advertised for weeks.


Honestly. I gave up on AEW ever being solid competition for WWE and increasing their ratings. Its a solid rating for their audience of permanent 700k-950k. But yes, you are correct. 6 months from now we will be geeking out over one of their specials getting 750k and calling it a solid rating.


----------



## .christopher.

Klitschko said:


> Damn, Sting losing that many viewers sucks, but its all on AEW. Same shit week after week after week with him.
> 
> Overall a solid rating.


I remember telling people to not get their hopes up in regards to Sting because this is AEW.

The only big name they haven't fucked is Bret Hart, and that was because he was on screen for literally a minute.


----------



## The Wood

.christopher. said:


> I remember telling people to not get their hopes up in regards to Sting because this is AEW.
> 
> The only big name they haven't fucked is Bret Hart, and that was because he was on screen for literally a minute.


Probably the best moment of MJF’s career too. He kept that momentum for a little while, but did it ever get _better_? To think that if in 2019/2020/2021 and you had a choice of working with one Canadian to help your career in pro-wrestling along, you would choose Bret Hart over Chris Jericho.


----------



## sim8

The Wood said:


> Probably the best moment of MJF’s career too. He kept that momentum for a little while, but did it ever get _better_? To think that if in 2019/2020/2021 and you had a choice of working with one Canadian to help your career in pro-wrestling along, you would choose Bret Hart over Chris Jericho.


You think MJF interrupting Bret was the best moment of his career so far? Not the turn on Cody? Not his campaign speech against Moxley which I remember this forum loving.


----------



## The Wood

sim8 said:


> You think MJF interrupting Bret was the best moment of his career so far? Not the turn on Cody? Not his campaign speech against Moxley which I remember this forum loving.


I’m not this forum, mate. I didn’t give a rats about that overproduced crap. Cody turn was rushed. Well done, but not a highlight. For me, nothing has topped the feeling of “This guy is something” more than night one. A few promos may have had more in them, but didn’t fit as hard for me. And it’s been gradually down tiers since.


----------



## Shock Street

sim8 said:


> You think MJF interrupting Bret was the best moment of his career so far? Not the turn on Cody? Not his campaign speech against Moxley which I remember this forum loving.


TBH I thought the turn on Cody was way too early and he hasn't been as interesting since. My favorite MJF moment is him helping Cody break open the Inner Circles rental box with Dustin and DDP


----------



## The Wood

Shock Street said:


> TBH I thought the turn on Cody was way too early and he hasn't been as interesting since. My favorite MJF moment is him helping Cody break open the Inner Circles rental box with Dustin and DDP


That one was good. Not my highlight, but good.


----------



## sim8

The Wood said:


> I’m not this forum, mate. I didn’t give a rats about that overproduced crap. Cody turn was rushed. Well done, but not a highlight. For me, nothing has topped the feeling of “This guy is something” more than night one. A few promos may have had more in them, but didn’t fit as hard for me. And it’s been gradually down tiers since.


Well it is your opinion so not really much to debate here but it is my opinion that if you think MJF peaked at the very first AEW show then it is obvious the product AEW presents is not really for you. Nothing wrong with that. Doesn't mean you're wrong or AEW is a bad show. Just not for you. I just gotta question why you give AEW so much time? Now I'm not saying if you don't like it then dont watch like some AEW loyalists do because that is stupid. I want AEW to retain and grow an audience but I just don't get how you can commit to something that doesn't suit your tastes. Just like how I bailed on walking dead at some point despite being a fan of the comic book.


----------



## sim8

Shock Street said:


> TBH I thought the turn on Cody was way too early and he hasn't been as interesting since. My favorite MJF moment is him helping Cody break open the Inner Circles rental box with Dustin and DDP





The Wood said:


> That one was good. Not my highlight, but good.


To me, that's not even an MJF moment. The moment was all about Cody and Jericho. Everyone else was just playing sidekick.


----------



## The Wood

sim8 said:


> Well it is your opinion so not really much to debate here but it is my opinion that if you think MJF peaked at the very first AEW show then it is obvious the product AEW presents is not really for you. Nothing wrong with that. Doesn't mean you're wrong or AEW is a bad show. Just not for you. I just gotta question why you give AEW so much time? Now I'm not saying if you don't like it then dont watch like some AEW loyalists do because that is stupid. I want AEW to retain and grow an audience but I just don't get how you can commit to something that doesn't suit your tastes. Just like how I bailed on walking dead at some point despite being a fan of the comic book.


No, AEW is not for me. And that wouldn’t necessarily mean that it’s a bad show. I happen to think I can make the case it is a bad show, but that’s a separate argument. I don’t like plenty of good shows and even like some bad shows, but not everything gets a subjective pass from critique.

And I just can’t think of anything MJF did that was better than that moment with Bret. The match with Jungle Boy, for example, was REALLY good. But it wasn’t as emotionally successful with me as the moment with Bret. He’s done some great promos, but they didn’t have that same impact as that initial one.

I’m not saying everything he’s done since has been progressively worse in these dramatic tiers. But he was a splash of excellence followed by some sustained excellence, ushered into a rushed program with Cody, a shitty title program with Mox and then this AWFUL stuff with Jericho. In my opinion, of course. But I’ll say that there is “Good MJF” and “Poor MJF.” And you can take “Poor MJF” to be a mark of quality or sympathy. And that starts with the Mox stuff for me.

And I give wrestling so much time because I am a devotee to it. A big part of my life and I’m obsessed. Sometimes I wish I could just drop it and never give a shit about how good or bad it is again, but I can’t. I’m _not_ like you and The Walking Dead. And I’m not miserable when talking about wrestling I think is bad. In fact, I _love_ it.


----------



## bdon

Shock Street said:


> TBH I thought the turn on Cody was way too early and he hasn't been as interesting since. My favorite MJF moment is him helping Cody break open the Inner Circles rental box with Dustin and DDP


It happened quickly, because it was a Cody rHHHodes story. It was not a story for MJF. If it was the MJF story, it WOULD have been dragged out further.

You know...kind of the way Jericho has made this current angle ALL about MJF?

Pay attention to the journey, not the destination, kiddies. The journey is where guys are “put over”. Jericho is doing a fabulous job of making MJF feel like an integral piece in the lives of every member of the Inner Circle with Sammy not far behind.

That is “putting him over”. Wins and losses don’t mean shit. The story is where guys get over.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> It happened quickly, because it was a Cody rHHHodes story. It was not a story for MJF. If it was the MJF story, it WOULD have been dragged out further.
> 
> You know...kind of the way Jericho has made this current angle ALL about MJF?
> 
> Pay attention to the journey, not the destination, kiddies. The journey is where guys are “put over”. Jericho is doing a fabulous job of making MJF feel like an integral piece in the lives of every member of the Inner Circle with Sammy not far behind.
> 
> That is “putting him over”. Wins and losses don’t mean shit. The story is where guys get over.


Great first half, lol at the second half. Excellent troll.


----------



## La Parka

bdon said:


> It happened quickly, because it was a Cody rHHHodes story. It was not a story for MJF. If it was the MJF story, it WOULD have been dragged out further.
> 
> You know...kind of the way Jericho has made this current angle ALL about MJF?
> 
> Pay attention to the journey, not the destination, kiddies. The journey is where guys are “put over”. Jericho is doing a fabulous job of making MJF feel like an integral piece in the lives of every member of the Inner Circle with Sammy not far behind.
> 
> That is “putting him over”. Wins and losses don’t mean shit. The story is where guys get over.


Too little too late.

No one gives a fuck about the Innercircle or MJF anymore.

“The Club”, Dork Order (yes that’s how far the intercirrcle has fallen), Team Taz and Death Triangle have already surpassed them in terms of audience interest. How many threads on this site have talked about Innercircle of late? 0. How many can you find on other sites? Probably pretty low as well.

Jericho (and MJF himself) completely killed any hype MJF had. MJF was easily top 5 in most talked about wrestlers last year and now no one would probably bat an eye if he was jobbed out for the rest of his contract.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Great first half, lol at the second half. Excellent troll.


Inner Circle sucks, but this IS the MJF story that ends with Maxwell “setting the group straight”. The comedy ends with Jericho kicked to the curb, IMO.

But the larger point is that MJF, win or lose, actually has something to do. When everyone brags about Cody putting MJF over, they specifically only discuss it in terms of MJF winning. MJF has more to do now while working with Jericho than he ever did after winning a goddamn blood feud with Cody rHHHodes.


----------



## Prosper

Going with 950K this week.


----------



## rich110991

Prosper said:


> Going with 950K this week.


I really hope they get a great rating for a great show.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Prosper said:


> Going with 950K this week.


That’s bold - I like your confidence!

For me, I think similar to last week so around 850k total viewership. Last week was billed as a 'special' whereas this week was a better show. I think they'd do well to retain a similar number tbh.


----------



## ShadowCounter

You guys are nuts. Ratings are gonna go down for both shows with news shows covering impeachment 2 electric boogaloo.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

ShadowCounter said:


> You guys are nuts. Ratings are gonna go down for both shows with news shows covering impeachment 2 electric boogaloo.


Oh really? I stopped keeping tabs on the news several months ago - it's a drag, man


----------



## rbl85

Why an other impeachment when Biden is president ?


----------



## El Hammerstone

rbl85 said:


> Why an other impeachment when Biden is president ?


Trump wouldn't be able to run again if it goes through.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Inner Circle sucks, but this IS the MJF story that ends with Maxwell “setting the group straight”. The comedy ends with Jericho kicked to the curb, IMO.
> 
> But the larger point is that MJF, win or lose, actually has something to do. When everyone brags about Cody putting MJF over, they specifically only discuss it in terms of MJF winning. MJF has more to do now while working with Jericho than he ever did after winning a goddamn blood feud with Cody rHHHodes.


It might become that, but it’s too little too late. I don’t give a shit about Jericho and never will again. MJF is just another guy doing what I expect him to do. Plus, we’ve seen this exact same turnaround with Jez before — the Kevin Owens “Festival of Friendship” (which I also didn’t like).

But good points well made. There is a slight difference between Jericho and Codt



ShadowCounter said:


> You guys are nuts. Ratings are gonna go down for both shows with news shows covering impeachment 2 electric boogaloo.


Impeachment will not impact the ratings. Impeachment will improve the ratings of news programs. Wrestling fans will still watch wrestling.

The ratings will not be dependent on how good this week’s show was or wasn’t. They will be a result of what the audience they had last week thought and how urgent they felt it was to watch the show + a little word of mouth.

I haven’t followed Raw’s ratings. I think they were a little down, so that would imply AEW takes a little dip. But it’s Royal Rumble week, so that could encourage people to check out the wrestling world too.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

900 / 0.36 - my prediction


----------



## 3venflow

AEW: 741,000 (0.29 key demo) (#21 on cable, #2 non-news)

NXT: 558,000 (0.12 key demo) (#62 on cable)


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1359973135827804167


----------



## ProjectGargano

I was expecting more... freaking news


----------



## omaroo

Poor number tbh

700k-800k is their average


----------



## bdon

Beating 2 NBA games!? Damn!


----------



## Erik.

They beat the NBA game last night they were directly against in the demo AND in overall viewership?

I don't deal with American ratings - but isn't that good?


----------



## justin waynes

Hhh loves geeks.too many indie work rate geeks are killing nxt . nxt is dying


----------



## Pippen94

Good rating considering trial - beat NBA games.

My prediction of Impact challenging wwe Wednesday in demo may come true


----------



## Christopher Near

Kenta hype and didnt hit 800k yikes


----------



## rbl85

Christopher Near said:


> Kenta hype and didnt hit 800k yikes


There is no "kenta hype".

It's the meaning behind is appearance that is hype


----------



## Christopher Near

rbl85 said:


> There is no "kenta hype".
> 
> It's the meaning behind is appearance that is hype


Still all the forbidden door talk

They still had moxley and omega in the Main event. Nxt didn't even try so this should've been an easy win for aew


----------



## Brodus Clay

Sucks it was a great Dynamite.


----------



## Kentucky34

Wednesday night wrestling is dying.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Christopher Near said:


> Still all the forbidden door talk
> 
> They still had moxley and omega in the Main event. Nxt didn't even try so this should've been an easy win for aew


And it was an easy win for AEW.


----------



## fabi1982

You americans and your news, I will never understand. But interesting that the usual no.1 demo show basically didnt lose anything. But this weeks rating shouldnt be a discussion at all. Sad thing is that less people watched this good episode.


----------



## rbl85

Christopher Near said:


> Still all the forbidden door talk
> 
> They still had moxley and omega in the Main event. *Nxt didn't even try so this should've been an easy win for aew*


It was an easy win


----------



## Bubbly2

Christopher Near said:


> Kenta hype and didnt hit 800k yikes


Kenta isn't really known by people beyond the core audience that always watch anyway.


----------



## Mr316

I called it. Nobody cares about a partnership with NJPW or Impact Wrestling. Marks will be happy but they totally lost their chance of getting a bigger audience. The product is simply not exciting enough. Many talents they use simply aren’t made for TV. The product is made for the marks and there’s no way their audience is ever gonna grow. Call me negative I don’t care but it is what it is. It’s unfortunate that they didn’t launch the company with a better vision of what they wanted their product to be.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

oof! lower than expected

why is the news so high? what is going on now again America?

geeez


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Mr316 said:


> I called it. Nobody cares about a partnership with NJPW or Impact Wrestling. Marks will be happy but they totally lost their chance of getting a bigger audience. The product is simply not exciting enough. Many talents they use simply aren’t made for TV. The product is made for the marks and there’s no way their audience is ever gonna grow. Call me negative I don’t care but it is what it is. It’s unfortunate that they didn’t launch the company with a better vision of what they wanted their product to be.


yay! you won!

be safe in the knowledge of your victory and go forth, never to return!


----------



## ProjectGargano

LifeInCattleClass said:


> oof! lower than expected
> 
> why is the news so high? what is going on now again America?
> 
> geeez


Another impeachment...America is a case study lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ProjectGargano said:


> Another impeachment...America is a case study lol


really? the Don getting impeached?

geezzz... i'm starting to be glad I am stuck in the arse end of Africa at the moment - world is going crazy

couldn't happen to a nicer guy though


----------



## The XL 2

The business is more or less dead in this country.


----------



## The XL 2

Kenny Omega is not a world champion caliber talent in a national promotion and the Bucks should either be enhancement talent or not on the show. Building their company around those goofs is insanely dumb. No one cares that Kenny Omega was kind of over in Japan, Stan Hansen was way more over in Japan and was a decent deal in the US, but not a massive deal. Scott Norton was over in Japan and no one cared about him in the states. Kenny Omega simply does not have what it takes to be anything higher than a low midcarder in an American national promotion.


----------



## Mike E

It's pretty great that AEW was the number 2 show that wasn't news, also a pretty big deal to beat the NBA.


----------



## Mr316

Look at Tony Khan’s promos that he does, losing his time on Impact Wrestling. Do you people really think this guy has the vision to grow his audience? Not happening.


----------



## Chan Hung

Christopher Near said:


> Kenta hype and didnt hit 800k yikes


Kenta will not nor was ever meant to appeal to a good number of casuals. Just to the base.


----------



## Claro De Luna

The XL 2 said:


> The business is more or less dead in this country.


I'm sorry but your country is a right shit hole, I've mentioned this before. It must be, if the population prefers to watch news programming over real entertainment.


----------



## Christopher Near

ProjectGargano said:


> And it was an easy win for AEW.


Expected 800k especially after the build up from last week


----------



## One Shed

Claro De Luna said:


> I'm sorry but your country is a right shit hole, I've mentioned this before. It must be, if the population prefers to watch news programming over real entertainment.


Imagine thinking a country sucks because its population likes to be informed instead of bread and circuses.


----------



## Prosper

Mr316 said:


> I called it. Nobody cares about a partnership with NJPW or Impact Wrestling. Marks will be happy but they totally lost their chance of getting a bigger audience. The product is simply not exciting enough. Many talents they use simply aren’t made for TV. The product is made for the marks and there’s no way their audience is ever gonna grow. Call me negative I don’t care but it is what it is. It’s unfortunate that they didn’t launch the company with a better vision of what they wanted their product to be.





The XL 2 said:


> Kenny Omega is not a world champion caliber talent in a national promotion and the Bucks should either be enhancement talent or not on the show. Building their company around those goofs is insanely dumb. No one cares that Kenny Omega was kind of over in Japan, Stan Hansen was way more over in Japan and was a decent deal in the US, but not a massive deal. Scott Norton was over in Japan and no one cared about him in the states. Kenny Omega simply does not have what it takes to be anything higher than a low midcarder in an American national promotion.


And like clockwork here we go with people using
cable ratings to try and justify their opinions on Kenny Omega and the product...how miserable and sad some people on here are.

“Ratings dropped? Ooooh Quick!! Let’s tell AEW fans how much we think Kenny sucks!! Fuck the details It’s his fault!! Told you!!”

They drop because of the news and they’re dead? Lol


----------



## Bubbly2

Two Sheds said:


> Imagine thinking a country sucks because its population likes to be informed instead of bread and circuses.


It's not a shithole but it is....weird? I've just read about drama over a team not playing the anthem before a game lol, as if that's an important deal. Do they still make kids take the pledge of allegiance over there and teach that America is so much better than anyone else? It's a spectacularly insular country lol.

Not that I can boast about my own scrapheap of an island.


----------



## One Shed

Bubbly2 said:


> It's not a shithole but it is....weird? I've just read about drama over a team not playing the anthem before a game lol, as if that's an important deal. Do they still make kids take the pledge of allegiance over there and teach that America is so much better than anyone else? It's a spectacularly insular country lol.
> 
> Not that I can boast about my own scrapheap of an island.


Well, they do not MAKE kids say the pledge, but most public schools do announce the pledge over the intercom every day and most kids say it. I never liked that. The anthem stuff is dumb too. But I have seen more and more of the "woke" nonsense bleed into Europe now. Macron was complaining about that nonsense recently.

We have definitely never been more divided as a country right now since the Civil War which is scary. With as many people watching the news as they are, I wish they would learn something from it.


----------



## Bubbly2

Two Sheds said:


> Well, they do not MAKE kids say the pledge, but most public schools do announce the pledge over the intercom every day and most kids say it. I never liked that. The anthem stuff is dumb too. But I have seen more and more of the "woke" nonsense bleed into Europe now. Macron was complaining about that nonsense recently.
> 
> We have definitely never been more divided as a country right now since the Civil War which is scary. With as many people watching the news as they are, I wish they would learn something from it.


I was on a cruise through NY not so long ago and the various US news channels would have totally different spins on the same news story so I'm not sure much will be learned! 

Macron is a bit of a fool but no doubt this extreme woke nonsense is doing as much damage as anything else nowadays. It's here to stay it seems.


----------



## One Shed

Bubbly2 said:


> I was on a cruise through NY not so long ago and the various US news channels would have totally different spins on the same news story so I'm not sure much will be learned!
> 
> Macron is a bit of a fool but no doubt this extreme woke nonsense is doing as much damage as anything else nowadays. It's here to stay it seems.


Yup, most people just want to watch their echo chambers so they just get more convinced THEY are right and everyone else is wrong. I mean after all, the talking heads on TV said it is true!


----------



## RapShepard

Fine number given circumstances, but will this episode interest more viewers for next week?


----------



## Mr316

Prosper said:


> And like clockwork here we go with people using
> cable ratings to try and justify their opinions on Kenny Omega and the product...how miserable and sad some people on here are.
> 
> “Ratings dropped? Ooooh Quick!! Let’s tell AEW fans how much we think Kenny sucks!! Fuck the details It’s his fault!! Told you!!”
> 
> They drop because of the news and they’re dead? Lol


They didn’t drop because of the news. They dropped because no one cares about AEW.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Mr316 said:


> They didn’t drop because of the news. They dropped because no one cares about AEW.


No? Are you sure? Best rating besides the news? Better than the 2 NBA games?


----------



## Mr316

ProjectGargano said:


> No? Are you sure? Best rating besides the news? Better than the 2 NBA games?


Cable TV is dead. The news or special events here and there are the only thing left that people watch on it. Most people are on netflix and other streaming services. NBA, there’s over 2000 games in a season. AEW has 52 shows and only 700k are watching.


----------



## The Wood

The news...barely...affected...anything. 1.3 million on a Wednesday. This is down 100k-200k people. It’s someone with a cold forgetting to turn their TV on. Stop with the news myth.


----------



## The XL 2

Prosper said:


> And like clockwork here we go with people using
> cable ratings to try and justify their opinions on Kenny Omega and the product...how miserable and sad some people on here are.
> 
> “Ratings dropped? Ooooh Quick!! Let’s tell AEW fans how much we think Kenny sucks!! Fuck the details It’s his fault!! Told you!!”
> 
> They drop because of the news and they’re dead? Lol


If AEW can't convince wrestling fans to watch their product for 2 hours a week over the nonsensical bullshit our news puts out 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, then I don't know what to tell you.


----------



## Klitschko

Damn, shit rating.


----------



## La Parka

NXT is losing its audience and AEW is not picking them up.

AEW not being able to attract any of the hardcore fan base that is leaving nxt should be a cause for concern.


----------



## Mr316

La Parka said:


> NXT is losing its audience and AEW is not picking them up.
> 
> AEW not being able to attract any of the hardcore fan base that is leaving nxt should be a cause for concern.


Pro wrestling has become unbelievably lame. Nobody cares about NXT because it takes itself way too seriously. It’s actually sad how lame the characters are. And AEW well, the characters just as lame. Who the hell wants to listen to the Dark Order or Matt Hardy or watch Peter Avalon in a wrestling ring.

The people in charge are completely clueless.


----------



## Pippen94

NHL starts in October - can't see wwe Wednesday lasting till then


----------



## Pippen94

Mr316 said:


> Cable TV is dead. The news or special events here and there are the only thing left that people watch on it. Most people are on netflix and other streaming services. NBA, there’s over 2000 games in a season. AEW has 52 shows and only 700k are watching.


Don't worry about - live your life


----------



## NathanMayberry

Prosper said:


> And like clockwork here we go with people using
> cable ratings to try and justify their opinions on Kenny Omega and the product...how miserable and sad some people on here are.
> 
> “Ratings dropped? Ooooh Quick!! Let’s tell AEW fans how much we think Kenny sucks!! Fuck the details It’s his fault!! Told you!!”
> 
> They drop because of the news and they’re dead? Lol


You knew full well that there was news yet predicted 950K... the fact that you were off by a couple hundred thousand shows that clearly he's not even meeting your own expectations.

Omega is by far AEW's lowest drawing Champion and he's even dragged Moxley down with him.


----------



## Prosper

NathanMayberry said:


> You knew full well that there was news yet predicted 950K... the fact that you were off by a couple hundred thousand shows that clearly he's not even meeting your own expectations.


I forgot about the impeachment and it hadn’t hit me that it was still going on when I made my guess at 950. Haven’t been keeping up with Trump or anything he has done since he left office honestly and I barely even kept up when he was President, I don't give a shit about the guy.


----------



## DammitChrist

NathanMayberry said:


> You knew full well that there was news yet predicted 950K... the fact that you were off by a couple hundred thousand shows that clearly he's not even meeting your own expectations.
> 
> *Omega is by far AEW's lowest drawing Champion and he's even dragged Moxley down with him.*


It's absolutely laughable that we still have naive folks blaming certain wrestlers for the low ratings in 2021 where they act like they're "tanking" the viewership.

Kenny Omega is also one of the best/most over heel acts on the show too.


----------



## The Wood

Chan Hung said:


> Kenta will not nor was ever meant to appeal to a good number of casuals. Just to the base.


Well, that didn’t work, did it? 



Prosper said:


> And like clockwork here we go with people using
> cable ratings to try and justify their opinions on Kenny Omega and the product...how miserable and sad some people on here are.
> 
> “Ratings dropped? Ooooh Quick!! Let’s tell AEW fans how much we think Kenny sucks!! Fuck the details It’s his fault!! Told you!!”
> 
> They drop because of the news and they’re dead? Lol


That’s what people do with WWE? Is it fair to call that a bad product? Who gets blamed there?

And ratings did not drop because of the news. 



The XL 2 said:


> If AEW can't convince wrestling fans to watch their product for 2 hours a week over the nonsensical bullshit our news puts out 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, then I don't know what to tell you.


Amen. 



DammitChrist said:


> It's absolutely laughable that we still have naive folks blaming certain wrestlers for the low ratings in 2021 where they act like they're "tanking" the viewership.
> 
> Kenny Omega is also one of the best/most over heel acts on the show too.


What evidence could you possibly have to support this? What metric?


----------



## Aedubya

Wrestleinc with more AEW-negative-led headlines to clickbait 

Jokers are always to afraid to slate WWE


----------



## thorn123

Ridiculously low rating for a great episode of tv. So many “experts” out there on why ratings do what they do ...

there are many examples of rubbish shows rating through the roof, and quality shows struggling for an audience.

whilst dynamite isn’t struggling for an audience, it boggles my mind how it doesn‘t garner 1.5 million viewers, given what other programs out there manage To draw that number.


----------



## .christopher.

La Parka said:


> NXT is losing its audience and AEW is not picking them up.
> 
> AEW not being able to attract any of the hardcore fan base that is leaving nxt should be a cause for concern.


Great point. AEW is too niche for people who still watched NXT in 2021. How bad is that?


DaveRA said:


> Ridiculously low rating for a great episode of tv. So many “experts” out there on why ratings do what they do ...
> 
> there are many examples of rubbish shows rating through the roof, and quality shows struggling for an audience.
> 
> whilst dynamite isn’t struggling for an audience, it boggles my mind how it doesn‘t garner 1.5 million viewers, given what other programs out there manage To draw that number.


It really shouldn't boggle your mind. As wrestling fans have said, AEW is a disgrace. They're lucky they have the 800k loyal fans they do considering all they do is make a mockery of the business they're in. They've somehow managed to make WWE look like a serious wrestling product by comparison despite them criticising WWEs goofiness from day one.


----------



## thorn123

.christopher. said:


> Great point. AEW is too niche for people who still watched NXT in 2021. How bad is that?
> 
> It really shouldn't boggle your mind. As wrestling fans have said, AEW is a disgrace. They're lucky they have the 800k loyal fans they do considering all they do is make a mockery of the business they're in. They've somehow managed to make WWE look like a serious wrestling product by comparison despite them criticising WWEs goofiness from day one.


Did you watch last week. It was quality. And the main event the last two weeks have been as good as any wrestling I have seen in two decades.


----------



## The Wood

DaveRA said:


> Ridiculously low rating for a great episode of tv. So many “experts” out there on why ratings do what they do ...
> 
> there are many examples of rubbish shows rating through the roof, and quality shows struggling for an audience.
> 
> whilst dynamite isn’t struggling for an audience, it boggles my mind how it doesn‘t garner 1.5 million viewers, given what other programs out there manage To draw that number.


A great episode of TV or not, your ratings aren’t a determination of by the minute quality. They are a rough marker of how many people are watching when that minute ticks onto screen. A great episode of TV is just going to encourage people who saw that episode to come back, and maybe try and convince others to come along.

But more than subjectively looking at what you consider to be “great TV,” maybe think about how great Dynamite is or isn’t at existing within its own genre. I’ve heard a lot of people criticise shows like “Real Housewives” or “The Kardashians”. And that isn’t my jam. But for what those shows are, they are probably executed _extremely_ well. Dynamite is a show that can’t even get wrestling fans — casual, hardcore and even expert critics — to agree upon. It often _doesn’t_ make sense. And that is something you can either happily accept, or it’s something that turns you off.

I’m not surprised that AEW cannot grow and audience. I think that they mock the wrestling genre. I think wrestling has a lot of people who would enjoy it if it were on TV, but a parody of wrestling is going to have a much smaller scope than that. You must be interested in wrestling enough to be familiar with its tropes, hold it in a little contempt, and still invest time in something that somewhat revolves around the same axis it does.


----------



## thorn123

The Wood said:


> A great episode of TV or not, your ratings aren’t a determination of by the minute quality. They are a rough marker of how many people are watching when that minute ticks onto screen. A great episode of TV is just going to encourage people who saw that episode to come back, and maybe try and convince others to come along.
> 
> But more than subjectively looking at what you consider to be “great TV,” maybe think about how great Dynamite is or isn’t at existing within its own genre. I’ve heard a lot of people criticise shows like “Real Housewives” or “The Kardashians”. And that isn’t my jam. But for what those shows are, they are probably executed _extremely_ well. Dynamite is a show that can’t even get wrestling fans — casual, hardcore and even expert critics — to agree upon. It often _doesn’t_ make sense. And that is something you can either happily accept, or it’s something that turns you off.
> 
> I’m not surprised that AEW cannot grow and audience. I think that they mock the wrestling genre. I think wrestling has a lot of people who would enjoy it if it were on TV, but a parody of wrestling is going to have a much smaller scope than that. You must be interested in wrestling enough to be familiar with its tropes, hold it in a little contempt, and still invest time in something that somewhat revolves around the same axis it does.


I don’t know, I thinks it is the far superior program of its genre on tv. I am not saying it’s perfect - far from it.


----------



## The Wood

DaveRA said:


> I don’t know, I thinks it is the far superior program of its genre on tv. I am not saying it’s perfect - far from it.


Okay, and you’re allowed to have that opinion. I don’t agree and everyone knows I will gladly share my reasons why. But I think if the ratings tell you anything, it’s that this show fails to gain any real traction with a general audience.

By the way, I’m not sure a “good” wrestling show exists right now. Not top-to-bottom.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Well I mean not only it got a decent rating it came in 2nd in Non-News Programing. That's pretty damn good if you ask me. AEW still going strong.


----------



## The Wood

It came second in the Showbuzz charts, folks. Not in terms of viewership. My 600lb Life, Sistas, an NBA game and something called “Resident Alien” on SyFy all beat it in viewership (while charting in this bullshit demo).

Just a reminder: Cable is dying. Advertisers don’t use it to reach young people as much as they used to. The AEW audience isn’t also that young. It also doesn’t reflect a more nuanced demo breakdown of education, cultural background, sexuality, likelihood to be influencers, etc. These “numbers” (and more so the numbers you don’t see on Showbuzz) are ONLY important if they make TNT money. TNT aren’t happy with a rating — they’re happy with revenue.

AEW’s 48 year old mainly white audience may not be as desirable on cable as a lot of you make out. Especially since there’s only about 300k of them. Put a catfish on YouTube and get that many.


----------



## MoxAsylum

Kentucky34 said:


> wrestling is dying.


fixed it for you


----------



## MyronGainsBrah

Surprised that advertised main event drew so low. Trumps case slowing it?


----------



## The Wood

MyronGainsBrah said:


> Surprised that advertised main event drew so low. Trumps case slowing it?


More likely an underwhelming show the previous week.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

So despite the onslaught of Trump TV dominating TV, just check the charts, AEW only dipped .01 (.3 v .29) in the rating and 76k viewers (817 v 741) from the year before.

AEW should be extremely proud of their efforts this week.


----------



## Mr316

DaveRA said:


> Ridiculously low rating for a great episode of tv. So many “experts” out there on why ratings do what they do ...
> 
> there are many examples of rubbish shows rating through the roof, and quality shows struggling for an audience.
> 
> whilst dynamite isn’t struggling for an audience, it boggles my mind how it doesn‘t garner 1.5 million viewers, given what other programs out there manage To draw that number.


Are you insane? Do you really think 1.5 million will ever sit down and watch people like Dark Order, Matt Hardy, Marko Stunt, Joey Janella, Peter Avalon and other jobbers that just don’t belong on TV?


----------



## The Wood

TKO Wrestling said:


> So despite the onslaught of Trump TV dominating TV, just check the charts, AEW only dipped .01 (.3 v .29) in the rating and 76k viewers (817 v 741) from the year before.
> 
> AEW should be extremely proud of their efforts this week.


*More people watching the news doesn’t mean fewer people are watching wrestling.*

1.3 million people were watching wrestling on Wednesday night. That’s pretty standard, lol.

Jan 6th: 1.31

Jan 13th: 1.31

Jan 20th: 1.51 

Jan 27th: 1.45

Feb 3rd: 1.45

Feb 10th: 1.3


----------



## 3venflow

Mr316 said:


> Are you insane? Do you really think 1.5 million will ever sit down and watch people like Dark Order, Matt Hardy, Marko Stunt, Joey Janella, Peter Avalon and other jobbers that just don’t belong on TV?


Over one million did watch a show with Orange Cassidy, Angelico, Janela, Sonny Kiss and a main event of Brodie Lee vs. Dustin Rhodes last September, so it is not impossible. A week before, Jon Moxley beating up MJF's lawyer backed up by Jericho beating Janela drew 928,000.

The common denominator was NXT not airing on those nights. And when AEW didn't air on Wednesday nights the two weeks prior, NXT did 853,000 and 824,000.

It pretty much showed, AEW could do over a million pretty much every week under different circumstances even with weaker cards. And NXT could probably push closer to it on a different night. As long as there is a 'Wednesday Night War' (closer to a Wednesday Night Wipeout at this point, but the two shows do still eat into each other), one million will be rare as things stand.

It's a shame tribalism is so prevalant and people ignore the data and trends. Major news does indeed impact both Wednesday night shows to the tune of 200-300,000 taking the total down from 1.5m-ish to 1.3m-ish (give or take).


----------



## La Parka

MyronGainsBrah said:


> Surprised that advertised main event drew so low. Trumps case slowing it?


The advertised main event was a hardcore match. This is why many people advised against having these types of matches every week. The gimmick is completely meaningless. Off the top of my head since covid these have been the hardcore type matches that AEW has had on TV:

Cody Vs Eddie Kingston
This weeks tag main event 
Bunkhouse match
Parking Lot Brawl
Bucks and Butcher and Blade
Dog Collar match
Mox and Archer no DQ match

That’s not counting most of Mox’s matches taking place all around the ring andnot counting the PPV which have been filled with hardcore match types.


----------



## Geeee

Is that the lowest NXT has ever done?


----------



## 3venflow

Geeee said:


> Is that the lowest NXT has ever done?


Second lowest, a mere 10k more than their New Year's Day 2020 show. It's a shame, NXT can be better than the WWE main brand (the Imperium hype package, MSK vs Legado and Cameron Grimes promo were good this week) and on its own night would probably hit 700k at least every week.


----------



## Shock Street

The Wood said:


> More likely an underwhelming show the previous week.



Someone needs to tel Excalibur how to introduce someone. SCREAMING their name and talking about doors and briefcases doesn't do anything but jerk off people who already know what's happening. Same shit as Butcher and the Blade.


----------



## Not Lying

The Wood said:


> *More people watching the news doesn’t mean fewer people are watching wrestling.*
> 
> 1.3 million people were watching wrestling on Wednesday night. That’s pretty standard, lol.
> 
> *Jan 6th: 1.31*
> 
> Jan 13th: 1.31
> 
> Jan 20th: 1.51
> 
> Jan 27th: 1.45
> 
> Feb 3rd: 1.45
> 
> *Feb 10th: 1.3*



This is laughable because it gets close to those numbers when the news dominate, Jan-6 were the riots. 
Thew news do affect the ratings, especially more AEW, that's been evident now.


----------



## Pippen94

Geeee said:


> Is that the lowest NXT has ever done?


Lowest demo for sure


----------



## RapShepard

DaveRA said:


> Ridiculously low rating for a great episode of tv. So many “experts” out there on why ratings do what they do ...
> 
> there are many examples of rubbish shows rating through the roof, and quality shows struggling for an audience.
> 
> whilst dynamite isn’t struggling for an audience, it boggles my mind how it doesn‘t garner 1.5 million viewers, given what other programs out there manage To draw that number.


While they do totally fine ratings wise they're not cracking a million because they and NXT don't know how to appeal to casual wrestling fans. They know how to appeal to the most diehard fans and that's basically it.


----------



## sideon

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Well I mean not only it got a decent rating it came in 2nd in Non-News Programing. That's pretty damn good if you ask me. AEW still going strong.


When NXT gets that rating y'all laugh at them, but when AEW gets the same rating it's good now? Stop it, these ratings for both shows are an embarrassment, and that demo talk is officially dead. If all that mattered was the demo they wouldn't be partnering with other promotions and using retired celebrities, they're doing all of this because they need to get the numbers passed what they average. Jericho really fooled you guys into thinking that ratings didn't matter for a tv show LOL.


RapShepard said:


> While they do totally fine ratings wise they're not cracking a million because they and NXT don't know how to appeal to casual wrestling fans. They know how to appeal to the most diehard fans and that's basically it.


They're not doing fine ratings wise 700-800k was fine in the beginning was fine, but they need to advance beyond that now.


----------



## The Wood

3venflow said:


> Second lowest, a mere 10k more than their New Year's Day 2020 show. It's a shame, NXT can be better than the WWE main brand (the Imperium hype package, MSK vs Legado and Cameron Grimes promo were good this week) and on its own night would probably hit 700k at least every week.


I almost zoned out reading that. Not saying it wasn’t good, but suddenly the reason for their lack of interest is evident. 



Shock Street said:


> Someone needs to tel Excalibur how to introduce someone. SCREAMING their name and talking about doors and briefcases doesn't do anything but jerk off people who already know what's happening. Same shit as Butcher and the Blade.


100%. It is very bush league. 



The Definition of Technician said:


> This is laughable because it gets close to those numbers when the news dominate, Jan-6 were the riots.
> Thew news do affect the ratings, especially more AEW, that's been evident now.


Several things:

-You live in a world. There is going to be news.

-The 1.54 or whatever the fuck was against the inauguration. Literally a new fucking President.

-Is a rehash of the impeachment gimmick really outdrawing the riot and...whatever happened the week after the riot?

-2020 opened with 1.52. The next five weeks saw 1.67, 1.64, 1.61, 1.54 and 1.7. That’s a drop-off of 400k between the highest in that range and the lowest of 2021. The news and the pandemic aren’t the excuses people think they are.


----------



## ProjectGargano

sideon said:


> When NXT gets that rating y'all laugh at them, but when AEW gets the same rating it's good now? Stop it, these ratings for both shows are an embarrassment, and that demo talk is officially dead. If all that mattered was the demo they wouldn't be partnering with other promotions and using retired celebrities, they're doing all of this because they need to get the numbers passed what they average. Jericho really fooled you guys into thinking that ratings didn't matter for a tv show LOL.
> 
> They're not doing fine ratings wise 700-800k was fine in the beginning was fine, but they need to advance beyond that now.


Does it still hurts?


----------



## RapShepard

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1360271469343870982


----------



## The Wood

RapShepard said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1360271469343870982


At least they’re being honest about it now. This is the dude who works for the company, isn’t it?


----------



## RapShepard

The Wood said:


> At least they’re being honest about it now. This is the dude who works for the company, isn’t it?


Nope some dude from wrestlenomics


----------



## The Wood

RapShepard said:


> Nope some dude from wrestlenomics


Ah, I see. But another guy was picked up from there though, wasn’t he? I might be getting confused with that.


----------



## The Wood

I don’t know if this warrants its own thread yet, so I’ll just post this here: 

Apparently there are mumbling about an NBC Universal/WarnerMedia mega-merger. How this would affect WWE and AEW, if at all, is merely speculative. The main driving force behind this sort of arrangement is to increase the prominence of Peacock as a streaming service.

Would this just mean that AEW ends up putting its PPVs on Peacock like WWE? Or would it lead to AEW being dropped by NBC Warner Universal completely? I’m not sure how much “weight” WWE would command, although they would certainly command more than AEW.

It could potentially lead to AEW trying to strike up new content deals with other platforms, some with more penetration than Peacock. Or it could lead to new hats being thrown into the ring.

Interesting times ahead.


----------



## El Hammerstone

The Wood said:


> *new hats being thrown into the ring.*


Fingers crossed.


----------



## thorn123

Mr316 said:


> Are you insane? Do you really think 1.5 million will ever sit down and watch people like Dark Order, Matt Hardy, Marko Stunt, Joey Janella, Peter Avalon and other jobbers that just don’t belong on TV?


 my argument isn’t that dynamite deserves 1.5 million (which it does), it’s that there are plenty of other programs who get that viewership that are far worse, like raw


----------



## The Wood

DaveRA said:


> my argument isn’t that dynamite deserves 1.5 million (which it does), it’s that there are plenty of other programs who get that viewership that are far worse, like raw


Maybe others don’t share the same opinion as you? Maybe Raw is preferred by those people?


----------



## thorn123

The Wood said:


> Maybe others don’t share the same opinion as you? Maybe Raw is preferred by those people?


That’s their opinion, and that is fine. I do, however feel that to get a hardcore fan to change from WWE to AEW is like getting someone to change their favourite sports team to their most hated opponent - very difficult.


----------



## The Wood

DaveRA said:


> That’s their opinion, and that is fine. I do, however feel that to get a hardcore fan to change from WWE to AEW is like getting someone to change their favourite sports team to their most hated opponent - very difficult.


Maybe it should try being different in good ways and not similar in bad ones?


----------



## thorn123

The Wood said:


> Maybe it should try being different in good ways and not similar in bad ones?


I think they would have more luck getting the lapsed fan. I agree that they do some poor things and have some poor wrestlers, which have been previously mentioned, but IMO the good outweighs the bad, and I just feel if lapsed fans were less critical they would have a good time watching dynamite. Like I said, my opinion.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1360271469343870982


Aew did 0.29 this week from 0.32 the previous. Last week was at #3 this week #21 with only one none news show in front, so clearly some news shows got 18-49 bump


----------



## The Wood

DaveRA said:


> I think they would have more luck getting the lapsed fan. I agree that they do some poor things and have some poor wrestlers, which have been previously mentioned, but IMO the good outweighs the bad, and I just feel if lapsed fans were less critical they would have a good time watching dynamite. Like I said, my opinion.


Lapsed fans don’t really go for more of the same shit. A lot of fans tuned out because the WWE got too cartoony for them. AEW plays very similar to that. 



Pippen94 said:


> Aew did 0.29 this week from 0.32 the previous. Last week was at #3 this week #21 with only one none news show in front, so clearly some news shows got 18-49 bump


*More people watching the news does not mean fewer people watching wrestling.*


----------



## Mister Sinister

Why did anyone think a Japanese wrestler with no recognition in America was going to bring the ratings? Also, they failed for the first year to properly establish Omega, so the belt is also on a guy with no name recognition to the mainstream American audience. To make someone, you have to first make your show a hit. No hit show-- no ability to make anyone a name.


----------



## The Wood

Mister Sinister said:


> Why did anyone think a Japanese wrestler with no recognition in America was going to bring the ratings? Also, they failed for the first year to properly establish Omega, so the belt is also on a guy with no name recognition to the mainstream American audience. To make someone, you have to first make your show a hit. No hit show-- no ability to make anyone a name.


To be fair, I don’t think anyone did expect KENTA to bring in ratings. But I think they consider the quality of the show to be high. And that the idea of New Japan is something that is going to bring people in. Which it isn’t in and of itself.


----------



## thorn123

Mister Sinister said:


> Why did anyone think a Japanese wrestler with no recognition in America was going to bring the ratings? Also, they failed for the first year to properly establish Omega, so the belt is also on a guy with no name recognition to the mainstream American audience. To make someone, you have to first make your show a hit. No hit show-- no ability to make anyone a name.


I agree re Kenta - I never heard of him. Re omega, I think they realised their mistake and are feverishly trying to correct it.


----------



## The Wood

DaveRA said:


> I agree re Kenta - I never heard of him. Re omega, I think they realised their mistake and are feverishly trying to correct it.


By accounts they did it on purpose, and while I am not a fan of Omega’s, you don’t make someone a star by side burning them for a year and a bit.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Pippen94 said:


> NHL starts in October - can't see wwe Wednesday lasting till then


When USA moves to all sports format, they’ll definitely either cancel NXT or put it on in a taped delayed format to fill time at an odd hour. 

Their demo would get them cancelled on nearly every network given what USA is paying for the show. It’s unheard of for a non-rerun (new content) show to do that low of demo.


----------



## Randy Lahey

sideon said:


> They're not doing fine ratings wise 700-800k was fine in the beginning was fine, but they need to advance beyond that now.


Raw has been losing 20-30% of their audience every year. All AEW has to do is maintain their numbers because Raw will end up coming down to their level at the pace they are losing viewers. 

In 2-3 years assuming USA moves NXT, Raw will be down to 1 mil viewers and AEW will be up to 1 mil


----------



## validreasoning

Randy Lahey said:


> When USA moves to all sports format, they’ll definitely either cancel NXT or put it on in a taped delayed format to fill time at an odd hour.
> 
> Their demo would get them cancelled on nearly every network given what USA is paying for the show. It’s unheard of for a non-rerun (new content) show to do that low of demo.


Live nhl playoff game on USA doing 0.09 and 215,000 viewers #80... UPDATED: SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Top 150 Tuesday Cable Originals & Network Finals: 8.4.2020 | Showbuzz Daily

What is USA paying. I have heard
1. They aren't
2. $15m per year
3. $30m a year

#2 and #3 are peanuts for a 52 two hour episodes each year considering it would cost NBC minimum $25m a year just to tape tv on the road never mind pay wrestlers etc.

Btw there are hundreds of shows doing lower demo than NXT each day so strange post.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Randy Lahey said:


> Raw has been losing 20-30% of their audience every year. All AEW has to do is maintain their numbers because Raw will end up coming down to their level at the pace they are losing viewers.
> 
> In 2-3 years assuming USA moves NXT, Raw will be down to 1 mil viewers and AEW will be up to 1 mil


What evidence do you have of AEW growing to averaging 1m in 2-3 years? They have hit 1m once in 16 months (Week after Sting's debut). They are averaging around 800k & cable ratings for all shows on TV are generally tumbling down annually. They have showed no signs of growing to that level & this is a ridiculous prediction.

Either way Smackdown is WWE's A show and that averages 2.1-2.3m which is getting close to 3x amount of AEW average viewership.


----------



## Danielallen1410

RapShepard said:


> While they do totally fine ratings wise they're not cracking a million because they and NXT don't know how to appeal to casual wrestling fans. They know how to appeal to the most diehard fans and that's basically it.


there is no longer a way to attract casual fans.

wrestling just isn’t popular and has had its day.

in the uk when I was a kid South Park was the most popular thing to watch , now very few watch it but it’s still on tv.

wrestling is similar, times have changed. AEW do well to get the viewers they do.


----------



## RapShepard

Danielallen1410 said:


> there is no longer a way to attract casual fans.
> 
> wrestling just isn’t popular and has had its day.
> 
> in the uk when I was a kid South Park was the most popular thing to watch , now very few watch it but it’s still on tv.
> 
> wrestling is similar, times have changed. AEW do well to get the viewers they do.


Whether that's true or not, that's still the job of the promotions to attempt to do. Unless they want to stagnate until they meet a slow death.


----------



## K4L318

validreasoning said:


> Live nhl playoff game on USA doing 0.09 and 215,000 viewers #80... UPDATED: SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Top 150 Tuesday Cable Originals & Network Finals: 8.4.2020 | Showbuzz Daily
> 
> What is USA paying. I have heard
> 1. They aren't
> 2. $15m per year
> 3. $30m a year
> 
> #2 and #3 are peanuts for a 52 two hour episodes each year considering it would cost NBC minimum $25m a year just to tape tv on the road never mind pay wrestlers etc.
> 
> Btw there are hundreds of shows doing lower demo than NXT each day so strange post.


USA dropping NXT fam. Contract expires in the summer. They getting NHL and Formula 1.


----------



## DammitChrist

MoxAsylum said:


> fixed it for you


If that’s true (which it’s obviously not), then why is wrestling still alive and why does it still exist? : punk2


----------



## Smark1995

Randy Lahey said:


> Raw has been losing 20-30% of their audience every year. All AEW has to do is maintain their numbers because Raw will end up coming down to their level at the pace they are losing viewers.
> 
> In 2-3 years assuming USA moves NXT, Raw will be down to 1 mil viewers and AEW will be up to 1 mil


AEW haven't raised their audience at all in a year! These are the same 700-800K watching their shows without growing every week !And if they don't sign Lesnar or Punk, they won't raise their audience to 1 million! Why are you aew stans are so delusional?


----------



## Smark1995

AEW is watched only by a niche audience and if they don't change the format of their shows or sign someone big like Punk or Lesnar they will continue to receive their 700-800K every week without growth!


----------



## The Wood

Randy Lahey said:


> Raw has been losing 20-30% of their audience every year. All AEW has to do is maintain their numbers because Raw will end up coming down to their level at the pace they are losing viewers.
> 
> In 2-3 years assuming USA moves NXT, Raw will be down to 1 mil viewers and AEW will be up to 1 mil


Haha, that’s not how it works. 



validreasoning said:


> Live nhl playoff game on USA doing 0.09 and 215,000 viewers #80... UPDATED: SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Top 150 Tuesday Cable Originals & Network Finals: 8.4.2020 | Showbuzz Daily
> 
> What is USA paying. I have heard
> 1. They aren't
> 2. $15m per year
> 3. $30m a year
> 
> #2 and #3 are peanuts for a 52 two hour episodes each year considering it would cost NBC minimum $25m a year just to tape tv on the road never mind pay wrestlers etc.
> 
> Btw there are hundreds of shows doing lower demo than NXT each day so strange post.


If NXT costs so little in rights, plus AEW gets half of TNT’s ad revenue money, then it stands to reason that NXT is actually more profitable in its slot than AEW is.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Smark1995 said:


> AEW haven't raised their audience at all in a year! These are the same 700-800K watching their shows without growing every week !And if they don't sign Lesnar or Punk, they won't raise their audience to 1 million! Why are you aew stans are so delusional?


If AEW wasn’t competing directly against another wrestling show that was doing 600-650k, they’d be around 1 mil now. Raw is declining by 20-30% a year. Inevitably they will meet at some figure. It’s alreasy been happening in the demos


----------



## Randy Lahey

Dark Emperor said:


> What evidence do you have of AEW growing to averaging 1m in 2-3 years? They have hit 1m once in 16 months (Week after Sting's debut). They are averaging around 800k & cable ratings for all shows on TV are generally tumbling down annually. They have showed no signs of growing to that level & this is a ridiculous prediction.
> 
> Either way Smackdown is WWE's A show and that averages 2.1-2.3m which is getting close to 3x amount of AEW average viewership.


Smackdown is on network TV. You can’t even compare a network show to cable.

If you put Smackdown back on USA they’d be doing worse than Raw.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

RapShepard said:


> Whether that's true or not, that's still the job of the promotions to attempt to do. Unless they want to stagnate until they meet a slow death.


It's their job to attract an audience that's doesn't exist?


----------



## RapShepard

The Raw Smackdown said:


> It's their job to attract an audience that's doesn't exist?


Yes, creating new customers is their job, type of silly question is that. Believing wrestling can't have another book is one thing. Not trying to grow the business as much as you can is another thing.


----------



## The Wood

I don’t get why so many AEW fans are so eager to say that the business is dead.


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> I don’t get why so many AEW fans are so eager to say that the business is dead.


It’s not dead to the hardcore.

but it’s never appealing to people who aren’t into wrestling. It’s that simple.

neither wwe or aew will attract new fans in the next five years.


----------



## Danielallen1410

RapShepard said:


> Whether that's true or not, that's still the job of the promotions to attempt to do. Unless they want to stagnate until they meet a slow death.


if they stay with 700-900k viewers they’ll be fine.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

RapShepard said:


> Yes, creating new customers is their job type of silly question is that. Believing wrestling can't have another book is one thing. Not trying to grow the business as much as you can is another thing.


You don't create new customers by going after people that's non-existent. Focusing on people that's either already there or could be there is the way to go. This is wrestling. Not much more room to grow.


----------



## Pippen94

validreasoning said:


> Live nhl playoff game on USA doing 0.09 and 215,000 viewers #80... UPDATED: SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Top 150 Tuesday Cable Originals & Network Finals: 8.4.2020 | Showbuzz Daily
> 
> What is USA paying. I have heard
> 1. They aren't
> 2. $15m per year
> 3. $30m a year
> 
> #2 and #3 are peanuts for a 52 two hour episodes each year considering it would cost NBC minimum $25m a year just to tape tv on the road never mind pay wrestlers etc.
> 
> Btw there are hundreds of shows doing lower demo than NXT each day so strange post.


Ha - that's not how TV sports work. USA will put NHL in prime spot because that's price for playoffs & big games.

Shows doing 0.12 on larger cable networks get canceled.


----------



## Pippen94

Dark Emperor said:


> What evidence do you have of AEW growing to averaging 1m in 2-3 years? They have hit 1m once in 16 months (Week after Sting's debut). They are averaging around 800k & cable ratings for all shows on TV are generally tumbling down annually. They have showed no signs of growing to that level & this is a ridiculous prediction.
> 
> Either way Smackdown is WWE's A show and that averages 2.1-2.3m which is getting close to 3x amount of AEW average viewership.


You might understand smack down is on network TV whereas aew is on cable. Potential audience for fox much greater than cable.
When smack down drops back to cable aew actually beats them.


----------



## RapShepard

The Raw Smackdown said:


> You don't create new customers by going after people that's non-existent. Focusing on people that's either already there or could be there is the way to go. This is wrestling. Not much more room to grow.


You go after casuals by doing things you think would interest the masses. Again as a fan I get the doom and gloom. But a national promotion should never just settle with the idea of they've reached their max audience.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> Whether that's true or not, that's still the job of the promotions to attempt to do. Unless they want to stagnate until they meet a slow death.


Stop fear mongering; as long as show is among too cable shows it will exist. If cable falls show will move to streaming. As long as cable has news & sport it probably won't fall


----------



## RapShepard

Danielallen1410 said:


> if they stay with 700-900k viewers they’ll be fine.


Of course, but is there any good reason to not aim higher?


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Stop fear mongering; as long as show is among too cable shows it will exist. If cable falls show will move to streaming. As long as cable has news & sport it probably won't fall


What the fuck are you babbling about. Are you really about to try arguing they shouldn't be trying to grow their audience?


----------



## yeahright2

The Raw Smackdown said:


> It's their job to attract an audience that's doesn't exist?


That is the job of every tv show ever made. AEW even had a headstart compared to normal tv shows because The Elite had fans already. But how many people watched Supernatural because they saw only the cast list and thought "Oh, Jared Padalecki", I gotta watch this whatever it is"


----------



## Pippen94

Danielallen1410 said:


> It’s not dead to the hardcore.
> 
> but it’s never appealing to people who aren’t into wrestling. It’s that simple.
> 
> neither wwe or aew will attract new fans in the next five years.


Pre pandemic non wwe wrestling was booming. Aew was drawing crowds of 10k - first us company to do so along with wwe since wcw.
Manner in which ppl consume entertainment products has changed in past decade. Streaming has emerged & TV numbers have dropped. Make assessment on today's business based on ratings is wrong.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Stop fear mongering; as long as show is among too cable shows it will exist. If cable falls show will move to streaming. As long as cable has news & sport it probably won't fall


Rap is one of the few in here being optimistic, lol. I can’t believe AEW hardcores are actually suggesting that you shouldn’t try and grow your audience.

Also, more people would enjoy wrestling if it were good. I know this idea scares a lot of people who love to say they’re gone and never coming back, but it’s the truth. People have _reasons_ they’re not watching. 



Pippen94 said:


> Pre pandemic non wwe wrestling was booming. Aew was drawing crowds of 10k - first us company to do so along with wwe since wcw.
> Manner in which ppl consume entertainment products has changed in past decade. Streaming has emerged & TV numbers have dropped. Make assessment on today's business based on ratings is wrong.


That’s the weirdest use of the word “boom” I’ve ever seen. And I’ve got no clue what the rest of your post is about. It’s not only wrong, but are you suggesting ticket sales are a more important metric than TV success?

What have you been getting into, Pip?


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> What the fuck are you babbling about. Are you really about to try arguing they shouldn't be trying to grow their audience?


Don't be rude. When cable is declining along with all it's sport & pretty much every show including main competitor dropping 30% on year it'd be stupid to expect growth in ratings.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Don't be rude. When cable is declining along with all it's sport & pretty much every show including main competitor dropping 30% on year it'd be stupid to expect growth.


They could have a much larger slice of the pie than they do. They’ve lost more than the 17% you can expect due to cable cutting. Using the WWE as justification for their ineffectiveness lacks gumption.


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Don't be rude. When cable is declining along with all it's sport & pretty much every show including main competitor dropping 30% on year it'd be stupid to expect growth in ratings.


Whether they can grow or not is irrelevant to the fact they should still be trying. Bare minimum we know at least 1.6-1.8 million people watch Raw. There's no reason for NXT and AEW to take the approach that they can't possibly reach that many eyes. Again I get why fans who haven't seen wrestling be popular popular in over a decade don't believe it can be big. But the 2 biggest promotions in the US shouldn't have that mindset. They should have the mindset that wrestling has been a big pop culture thing multiple times before, no reason it can't be again.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> Whether they can grow or not is irrelevant to the fact they should still be trying. Bare minimum we know at least 1.6-1.8 million people watch Raw. There's no reason for NXT and AEW to take the approach that they can't possibly reach that many eyes. Again I get why fans who haven't seen wrestling be popular popular in over a decade don't believe it can be big. But the 2 biggest promotions in the US shouldn't have that mindset. They should have the mindset that wrestling has been a big pop culture thing multiple times before, no reason it can't be again.


Yeah, what direction is raw headed?! If you expect to spot growth in declining medium you probably won't find it.
Meanwhile, aew out rated NBA this week so are you telling me that sport isn't mainstream? When crowds are back they'll sell out every game (aew will sellout a few arenas too!! ) & millions will still follow. 
Growth won't be in TV audience


----------



## The Wood

RapShepard said:


> Whether they can grow or not is irrelevant to the fact they should still be trying. Bare minimum we know at least 1.6-1.8 million people watch Raw. There's no reason for NXT and AEW to take the approach that they can't possibly reach that many eyes. Again I get why fans who haven't seen wrestling be popular popular in over a decade don't believe it can be big. But the 2 biggest promotions in the US shouldn't have that mindset. They should have the mindset that wrestling has been a big pop culture thing multiple times before, no reason it can't be again.


Perfect post.

I’ve never heard one compelling reason that AEW should not be able to get as many viewers as Raw. Really, they should be able to get more. Especially if that show is so horrible, and because it goes for three hours.


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> Whether they can grow or not is irrelevant to the fact they should still be trying. Bare minimum we know at least 1.6-1.8 million people watch Raw. There's no reason for NXT and AEW to take the approach that they can't possibly reach that many eyes. Again I get why fans who haven't seen wrestling be popular popular in over a decade don't believe it can be big. But the 2 biggest promotions in the US shouldn't have that mindset. They should have the mindset that wrestling has been a big pop culture thing multiple times before, no reason it can't be again.


How many of those 1.6-1.8 million only watch raw by habit ?


----------



## Pippen94

rbl85 said:


> How many of those 1.6-1.8 million only watch raw by habit ?


Lots of rusted on fans from 28 years of being on air. No wrestling competition on other channel either


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> *Yeah, what direction is raw headed?! If you expect to spot growth in declining medium you probably won't find it.*
> Meanwhile, aew out rated NBA this week so are you telling me that sport isn't mainstream? When crowds are back they'll sell out every game (aew will sellout a few arenas too!! ) & millions will still follow.
> Growth won't be in TV audience


Don't you think the the biggest players in a declining medium should at least attempt to turn things around? Of course that can't happen overnight and it might not even work. Of course how to do that isn't a simple answer or it would've been done already. But the mindset of "well we'll never be popular again so we shouldn't even try" just makes no business sense and is asking for an eventual failure.



The Wood said:


> Perfect post.
> 
> I’ve never heard one compelling reason that AEW should not be able to get as many viewers as Raw. Really, they should be able to get more. Especially if that show is so horrible, and because it goes for three hours.


Because if you never try you can't fail. If you have low expectations and cling to them you can't get disappointed. Like I said they're doing fine by objective measures on TV. Still they should always strive higher.



rbl85 said:


> How many of those 1.6-1.8 million only watch raw by habit ?


This is such a weird argument to make. Let's say it's 100% an audience of habit. Shouldn't AEW try to find a way to pry away or share those loyal viewers?


----------



## RapShepard

Double post


----------



## RapShepard

Double post


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> Don't you think the the biggest players in a declining medium should at least attempt to turn things around? Of course that can't happen overnight and it might not even work. Of course how to do that isn't a simple answer or it would've been done already. But the mindset of "well we'll never be popular again so we shouldn't even try" just makes no business sense and is asking for an eventual failure.


Chances are with live cable numbers; staying steady may be as good as it gets (until NHL starts)

TNA had 1.3 million viewers each week but drew only a third of the live attendance & on average a third of ppv & I'm being generous. 
Aew audience is bigger than ratings numbers.

Segment outside of ratings more likely to grow


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Chances are with live cable numbers; staying steady may be as good as it gets (until NHL starts)
> 
> TNA had 1.3 million viewers each week but drew only a third of the live attendance & on average a third of ppv & I'm being generous.
> Aew audience is bigger than ratings numbers.
> 
> Segment outside of ratings more likely to grow


It may be, I'm just saying no reason they shouldn't try to grow that's all


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> How many of those 1.6-1.8 million only watch raw by habit ?


What does it even mean? Isn’t all serial watching a habit by definition? If people are watching Raw miserably, shouldn’t they be _easier_ to pry away? I legitimately don’t understand what this means.

Why isn’t AEW converting the viewers that tune out of Raw? Why isn’t AEW making Wednesday the new “habit” for wrestling?



RapShepard said:


> It may be, I'm just saying no reason they shouldn't try to grow that's all


It’s amazing how people keep trying to avoid what you’re actually saying by talking about cable sucking, wrestling sucking or other things. At the core of it is the simple truth that they should just fucking try.


----------



## fabi1982

Ive read highpoint of the show was Janella/Darby both in demo and total viewers. So this either means both are draws or the match made people drop out and watch news instead?!


----------



## The Wood

fabi1982 said:


> Ive read highpoint of the show was Janella/Darby both in demo and total viewers. So this either means both are draws or the match made people drop out and watch news instead?!


Maybe not watch the news, but it wouldn’t surprise me if Janela and Darby made people tune out.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Pippen94 said:


> You might understand smack down is on network TV whereas aew is on cable. Potential audience for fox much greater than cable.
> When smack down drops back to cable aew actually beats them.


What are you talking about. Smackdown has been on cable whilst also being treated after as the B Show and viewership was nowhere near as low as AEWs avg of 800k.


----------



## Klitschko

The Wood said:


> Maybe not watch the news, but it wouldn’t surprise me if Janela and Darby made people tune out.


Darby usually does pretty well in his segments and seems to be a little draw, within the AEW universe at least.


----------



## 3venflow

Smackdown did 881,000 last October when it was on FS1, 0.25 in the key demographic.

Not being in America I have no idea how many households have access to FOX (Smackdown's usual home), TNT and FS1.



fabi1982 said:


> Ive read highpoint of the show was Janella/Darby both in demo and total viewers. So this either means both are draws or the match made people drop out and watch news instead?!


I haven't seen the quarterlies yet, but the opening segment usually does well. Darby vs. Starks did over a million.


----------



## Dark Emperor

3venflow said:


> Smackdown did 881,000 last October when it was on FS1, 0.25 in the key demographic.


That is FS1 which is a lot less available than TNT. Plus it was a one off change rather than a regular timeslot.

They always did over 2m when they were on USA Network before the move to Fox. Pippen talking a load of nonsense. A show with Reigns, Rollins, Sasha and the WWE brand aint doing 800k on a weekly basis.


----------



## The Wood

Dark Emperor said:


> What are you talking about. Smackdown has been on cable whilst also being treated after as the B Show and viewership was nowhere near as low as AEWs avg of 800k.


Yeah, it’s a ridiculous point. SmackDown was doing several times the audience of AEW on USA.


----------



## Mr316

The Raw Smackdown said:


> You don't create new customers by going after people that's non-existent. Focusing on people that's either already there or could be there is the way to go. This is wrestling. Not much more room to grow.


Again, you’re all very fast to forget that 1.4 gave them a chance for their first show. Half of that audience disappear in a matter of weeks. Truth is, the audience was there, and AEW created a product for 50% of it that would watch no matter what.


----------



## RapShepard

The Wood said:


> It’s amazing how people keep trying to avoid what you’re actually saying by talking about cable sucking, wrestling sucking or other things. At the core of it is the simple truth that they should just fucking try.


As I said above I think it's purposeful low expectations to avoid disappointment if they never reach expectations.


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> Smackdown did 881,000 last October when it was on FS1, 0.25 in the key demographic.
> 
> Not being in America I have no idea how many households have access to FOX (Smackdown's usual home), TNT and FS1.
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't seen the quarterlies yet, but the opening segment usually does well. Darby vs. Starks did over a million.


For perspective in 2020 out of 149 network and cable channels these were the most watched channels in order

4. Fox(SmackDown airs)

14. TBS (where 2nd AEW show could potentially air)

18. TNT (Dynamite airs)

20. USA (Raw and NXT airs)

67. Fox Sports 1 (SmackDown when moved for real sports airs)

For added hilariousness BBC America which is apparently a thing out ranked Fox Sports 1 landing at 66.










Year in Review: Most-Watched Television Networks — Ranking 2020’s Winners and Losers


Yes, linear TV still exists, and it’s still watched by millions of viewers. But 2020 was another tipping point for traditional television, and it’s not just because of the pandemic. Wha…




variety.com


----------



## The Wood

RapShepard said:


> As I said above I think it's purposeful low expectations to avoid disappointment if they never reach expectations.


I think you’re right. I also think these were aided by things like Meltzer saying TNT was “expecting” 500k viewers. You see that echoed as some sort of magic line now, despite it being based on what? The number was never put into any proper context except for once when Meltzer told Disco Inferno it was because if you add B/R Live subs to TNT viewers you get the old TNT average — which makes NO sense.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Mr316 said:


> Again, you’re all very fast to forget that 1.4 gave them a chance for their first show. *Half of that audience disappear in a matter of weeks.* Truth is, the audience was there, and AEW created a product for 50% of it that would watch no matter what.


Except it didn't? Since that show they've kept going between 900-700 with them falling below that once every blue moon. That's not losing half the audience no matter how much you and so many others like to pretend it is.


----------



## Mr316

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Except it didn't? Since that show they've kept going between 900-700 with them falling below that once every blue moon. That's not losing half the audience no matter how much you and so many others like to pretend it is.


They drew almost 1.5 million on their first show. So yes. If you know how to count, they almost lost half of them.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Mr316 said:


> They drew almost 1.5 million on their first show. So yes. If you know how to count, they almost lost half of them.


No they did not.


----------



## Mr316

The Raw Smackdown said:


> No they did not.


So you don’t know how to count. Good to know.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Mr316 said:


> So you don’t know how to count. Good to know.


YOU don't know how to count. Because going between 900-700 is not losing half of a fucking million. 

And you need to stick to a number. You said 1.4 now 1.5 Which is it?


----------



## 3venflow

Their first show drew 1,409,000.

Their 2019 average was 903,333 viewers per episode (12 episodes).

Their 2020 average was 810,755 viewers per episode (53 episodes).

However, they suffered a sharp dip when the pandemic struck in 2020 and it took a few months to recover. The shows in 2020 that could be compared to the equivalent in 2019 actually saw an increase on the previous year.


----------



## One Shed

Quick math, black and white with no emotional arguments:

Premiere: 1,409,000
Average 2019 with premiere included: 911,000
Average 2019 excluding premiere: 865,727
Average 2020: 811,843
Average 2021 so far: 766,167

Percent drop from premiere number vs average of 10/9/19 (week after premiere) through 2/10/21: 42.05%

Percentage drop of 2019 average (including premiere) to 2020 average: 10.88%
Percentage drop of 2019 average to 2020 average (not including premiere): 6.22%
Percentage drop of average 2020 vs average 2021 so far: 5.63%

Key demo:

Premiere: 0.68
Average 2019 with premiere included: 0.39
Average 2019 excluding premiere: 0.36
Average 2020: 0.31
Average 2021 so far: 0.30


Percent drop from premiere number vs average of 10/9/19 (week after premiere) through 2/10/21: 52.81%

Percentage drop of 2019 average (including premiere) to 2020 average: 19.73%
Percentage drop of 2019 average to 2020 average (not including premiere): 13.94%
Percentage drop of average 2020 vs average 2021 so far: 3.84%

I did all this in Exel in about ten minutes so if I missed something let me know. I obviously excluded the three Wednesdays in 2020 they did not air but included when they aired Dynamite the other days of the week in its place.


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> Quick math, black and white with no emotional arguments:
> 
> Premiere: 1,409,000
> Average 2019 with premiere included: 911,000
> Average 2019 excluding premiere: 865,727
> Average 2020: 811,843
> Average 2021 so far: 766,167
> 
> Percent drop from premiere number vs average of 10/9/19 (week after premiere) through 2/10/21: 42.05%
> 
> Percentage drop of 2019 average (including premiere) to 2020 average: 10.88%
> Percentage drop of 2019 average to 2020 average (not including premiere): 6.22%
> Percentage drop of average 2020 vs average 2021 so far: 5.63%
> 
> Key demo:
> 
> Premiere: 0.68
> Average 2019 with premiere included: 0.39
> Average 2019 excluding premiere: 0.36
> Average 2020: 0.31
> Average 2021 so far: 0.30
> 
> 
> Percent drop from premiere number vs average of 10/9/19 (week after premiere) through 2/10/21: 52.81%
> 
> Percentage drop of 2019 average (including premiere) to 2020 average: 19.73%
> Percentage drop of 2019 average to 2020 average (not including premiere): 13.94%
> Percentage drop of average 2020 vs average 2021 so far: 3.84%
> 
> I did all this in Exel in about ten minutes so if I missed something let me know. I obviously excluded the three Wednesdays in 2020 they did not air but included when they aired Dynamite the other days of the week in its place.


Great, aew is doing same demo as last year despite all the news happening in world since start of 2021!!


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> For perspective in 2020 out of 149 network and cable channels these were the most watched channels in order
> 
> 4. Fox(SmackDown airs)
> 
> 14. TBS (where 2nd AEW show could potentially air)
> 
> 18. TNT (Dynamite airs)
> 
> 20. USA (Raw and NXT airs)
> 
> 67. Fox Sports 1 (SmackDown when moved for real sports airs)
> 
> For added hilariousness BBC America which is apparently a thing out ranked Fox Sports 1 landing at 66.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Year in Review: Most-Watched Television Networks — Ranking 2020’s Winners and Losers
> 
> 
> Yes, linear TV still exists, and it’s still watched by millions of viewers. But 2020 was another tipping point for traditional television, and it’s not just because of the pandemic. Wha…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> variety.com


TNT has reach of 89 million while Fs1 has 83 million.
So smack down would need to do 0.27 to equal aew total this week of 0.29.
Aew still wins


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Great, aew is doing same demo as last year despite all the news happening in world since start of 2021!!


Wait, are you claiming the news is being watched MORE in 2021 so far vs 2020?? What is this claim based on? CNN for example did its best ratings in 40 years in 2020.


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> TNT has reach of 89 million while Fs1 has 83 million.
> So smack down would need to do 0.27 to equal aew total this week of 0.29.
> Aew still wins


No, you would have to move AEW to a completely different network as well to make that comparison.


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> TNT has reach of 89 million while Fs1 has 83 million.
> So smack down would need to do 0.27 to equal aew total this week of 0.29.
> Aew still wins


Let me get this straight you're using one off entire channel moves to Fox Sports 1 appearances to say AEW wins. You're not looking at current SmackDown numbers or past SmackDown USA numbers, but FS1? Okay Pip have fun with that


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> Let me get this straight you're using one off entire channel moves to Fox Sports 1 appearances to say AEW wins. You're not looking at current SmackDown numbers or past SmackDown USA numbers, but FS1? Okay Pip have fun with that


In terms of TNT vs Fs1 it's a lot fairer than TNT vs Fox


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> In terms of TNT vs Fs1 it's a lot fairer than TNT vs Fox


Your point just doesn't make sense though as you're trying to use one off episodes where they aired on a different channel to support your theory that AEW would be bigger than SmackDown. There's nothing to back your prediction other than hope.


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> Wait, are you claiming the news is being watched MORE in 2021 so far vs 2020?? What is this claim based on? CNN for example did its best ratings in 40 years in 2020.


This year aew has gone head to head with insurrection, inauguration & impeachment trial. Each occasion news has dominated the TV rankings. 
Lot of ppl here pay attention to MCU universe but in real universe plenty is happening


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> Your point just doesn't make sense though as you're trying to use one off episodes where they aired on a different channel to support your theory that AEW would be bigger than SmackDown. There's nothing to back your prediction other than hope.


Never my point. Just countered somebody comparing smack down ratings to aew. Every house with a TV has access to fox & now you can throw in phone or tablet or smart watch...

Data with have smack down DID do lower demo than aew on cable tho


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Never my point. Just countered somebody comparing smack down ratings to aew. Every house with a TV has access to fox & now you can throw in phone or tablet or smart watch...
> 
> *Data with have smack down DID do lower demo than aew on cable tho*


But again you're using this with them having one off entire channel changes. Are you really trying to make the argument that if SmackDown had went back to USA they'd be doing lower numbers and demo than AEW


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> This year aew has gone head to head with insurrection, inauguration & impeachment trial. Each occasion news has dominated the TV rankings.
> Lot of ppl here pay attention to MCU universe but in real universe plenty is happening


Just like last year.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> But again you're using this with them having one off entire channel changes. Are you really trying to make the argument that if SmackDown had went back to USA they'd be doing lower numbers and demo than AEW


Don't put words in my mouth. I don't know what numbers it would do exactly.

What we know for certain is;

It's numbers did drop when moved back to cable including lower demo than aew.
Netwotk TV is in far more homes than cable so a drop from fox numbers is almost certain.
Raw & Smackdwon did very similar numbers this week so I'd expect Smackdown to be lower than Raw if all things equal.
Raw did a 0.48 this week & remember unlike aew don't face wrestling competition so aew comparison to unopposed smackdown isn't fair.

Without competition I think aew would do about 0.40 (it's peak last year was 0.45). Not far from what Raw does.
Smackdown ratings most likely lower than Raw so really potential audience on cable may not be as far apart as you think


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> Just like last year.


Which universe had insurrection & inauguration??


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Don't put words in my mouth. I don't know what numbers it would do exactly.


Putting words in your mouth you said this


Pippen94 said:


> *You might understand smack down is on network TV whereas aew is on cable. Potential audience for fox much greater than cable.
> When smack down drops back to cable aew actually beats them.*


Any who for this part



> What we know for certain is;
> 
> It's numbers did drop when moved back to cable including lower demo than aew.
> Netwotk TV is in far more homes than cable so a drop from fox numbers is almost certain.
> Raw & Smackdwon did very similar numbers this week so I'd expect Smackdown to be lower than Raw if all things equal.
> Raw did a 0.48 this week & remember unlike aew don't face wrestling competition so aew comparison to unopposed smackdown isn't fair.
> 
> Without competition I think aew would do about 0.40 (it's peak last year was 0.45). Not far from what Raw does.
> Smackdown ratings most likely lower than Raw so really potential audience on cable may not be as far apart as you think


The issue with this is you're trying to use one off special reasons for them being on a different channel to pretend that's their true audience or max audience they could get on cable. That's just as disingenuous as if somebody pretended the Saturday Dynamites, Midnight Dynamite, and 10pm-12pm Dynamites is their true audience.

You're also conveniently not taking in the whole picture of what's going on, on those days like you do with Dynamite. You talk about how major news and sporting events affect Dynamite ratings. Yet you aren't acknowledging that SmackDown only airs on FS1 when a major real sports event is happening on regular Fox.


----------



## The Wood

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Except it didn't? Since that show they've kept going between 900-700 with them falling below that once every blue moon. That's not losing half the audience no matter how much you and so many others like to pretend it is.


They went from 1.4 million to about 800k. That is almost half their audience. It is really that simple.


----------



## RapShepard

The Wood said:


> They went from 1.4 million to about 800k. That is almost half their audience. It is really that simple.


I mean it's almost half of their max viewership ever, but saying that was their audience isn't necessarily true either. Yes 1.4 million gave them a chance, but the 600k or so that left clearly isn't their audience. At least not yet.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

The Wood said:


> They went from 1.4 million to about 800k. That is almost half their audience. It is really that simple.


Saying something over and over again doesn't make it true. Now THAT is simple to get.

And you said "Almost" Almost isn't half. So you're also full of it as well. 

And also they go back and forth to 900 to 700. They don't stay at 800K. Lets not bullshit here.


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Which universe had insurrection & inauguration??


There was an entire year of Trump saying crazy things, an impeachment trial, and a once a century pandemic. As I already mentioned, CNN had their highest ratings overall in 40 years, which is when they started as a company.

At least you did not try to actually dispute any of the actual numbers


----------



## Klitschko

Two Sheds said:


> There was an entire year of Trump saying crazy things, an impeachment trial, and a once a century pandemic. As I already mentioned, CNN had their highest ratings overall in 40 years, which is when they started as a company.
> 
> At least you did not try to actually dispute any of the actual numbers


Don't forget the June BLM protests/riots that went on for weeks.


----------



## Pippen94

Klitschko said:


> Don't forget the June BLM protests/riots that went on for weeks.


Consolidate that into 6 weeks or so & you have 2021


----------



## ripcitydisciple

RapShepard said:


> As I said above I think it's purposeful low expectations to avoid disappointment if they never reach expectations.


What if that is what they are doing? What is it to you or anybody else? Why must they kneel before you guys and concede? Why do you crave it in the first place? Why are we not allowed to enjoy anything now a days?

I watch Pro Wrestling as a form of entertainment and to pass the time before going to sleep. I don't care if it is low rated, main stream or whether the casuals watch it or not. If it holds my interest and attention that is good enough for me. 

It will be a cold day in hell before I am kissing anyone's feet and bowing down, be it AEW or anything else.


----------



## RapShepard

ripcitydisciple said:


> What if that is what they are doing? What is it to you or anybody else? Why must they kneel before you guys and concede? Why do you crave it in the first place? Why are we not allowed to enjoy anything now a days?
> 
> I watch Pro Wrestling as a form of entertainment and to pass the time before going to sleep. I don't care if it is low rated, main stream or whether the casuals watch it or not. If it holds my interest and attention that is good enough for me.
> 
> It will be a cold day in hell before I am kissing anyone's feet and bowing down, be it AEW or anything else.


What the fuck are you babbling about? I'm literally in this thread saying they're doing fine ratings wise, but they as a business shouldn't give up on trying to grow just because some fans think wrestling can't ever be popular again. Next time get context for the conversation you're jumping in.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

RapShepard said:


> What the fuck are you babbling about? I'm literally in this thread saying they're doing fine ratings wise, but they as a business shouldn't give up on trying to grow just because some fans think wrestling can't ever be popular again. Next time get context for the conversation you're jumping in.


I do have context and have read what you have written about trying to grow and all that but what you and other's fail to grasp whenever you use the 'Attitude Era' as an argument and the Gold Standard in regards to the ratings and Pro Wrestling in general is that not all those people who tuned in were wrestling fans.

They were Jackass fans.
They were Reality TV fans
They were Girls gone Wild fans
They were Maury Povich fans
They were Jerry Springer fans
They were World's Most Amazing Videos fans

So when that all went away and wrestling went back to the first position, no shit, those people left and the ratings fell. Because they were never wrestling fans to begin with. So yes, I have followed the conversation and have context of it. Therefore what I posted that you claim was 'babbling' is relevant to the post I replied to.

Also I forget who said it but the one who said along the lines of 'How do they attract fans that don't exist' was right.

There may be some but not many and not nearly the amount you and others think there are.


----------



## Klitschko

How to attract wrestling fans that don't exist? I dont know. All I know is that there is around 2 million of them watching every Monday and Friday. Actually fuck that. Around 4 million people decided to give Smackdown a shot few months ago, so it clearly shows that there is people out there willing to give pro wrestling a shot.


----------



## RapShepard

ripcitydisciple said:


> I do have context and have read what you have written about trying to grow and all that but what you and other's fail to grasp whenever you use the 'Attitude Era' as an argument and the Gold Standard in regards to the ratings and Pro Wrestling in general is that not all those people who tuned in were wrestling fans.
> 
> They were Jackass fans.
> They were Reality TV fans
> They were Girls gone Wild fans
> They were Maury Povich fans
> They were Jerry Springer fans
> They were World's Most Amazing Videos fans
> 
> So when that all went away and wrestling went back to the first position, no shit, those people left and the ratings fell. Because they were never wrestling fans to begin with. So yes, I have followed the conversation and have context of it. Therefore what I posted that you claim was 'babbling' is relevant to the post I replied too.
> 
> Also I forget who said it but the one who said along the lines of 'How do they attract fans that don't exist' was right.
> 
> There may be some but not many and not nearly the amount you and others think there are.


This argument is so ridiculous and built in fear of failure. "Hey those millions of people that spent watching wrestling for years at a time, multiple times throughout history weren't really fans". Like seriously what type of argument is this. 

The fact that y'all are seriously trying to argue that promotions shouldn't be trying to create fans is absurd. For the umpteenth time, if you as a fan don't think wrestling can ever be popular again fine. Do you really think WWE, AEW, Impact, ROH, MLW, NWA, PWG, and whatever other promotions should be operating under the notion that there's a limit on how big their fan base can be?


----------



## The Wood

RapShepard said:


> I mean it's almost half of their max viewership ever, but saying that was their audience isn't necessarily true either. Yes 1.4 million gave them a chance, but the 600k or so that left clearly isn't their audience. At least not yet.


Yes, you’re right. They gave them a chance and didn’t like what they saw. At least enough to stick around. 



The Raw Smackdown said:


> Saying something over and over again doesn't make it true. Now THAT is simple to get.
> 
> And you said "Almost" Almost isn't half. So you're also full of it as well.
> 
> And also they go back and forth to 900 to 700. They don't stay at 800K. Lets not bullshit here.


Lol, you’re not really going to do the hairsplitting “Actually, they only lost 48.5% of their fans and not a technical 50% so stop lying” bullshit are you? People don’t mind it literally. They mean that roughly half the audience that gave them a chance tapped.



Klitschko said:


> How to attract wrestling fans that don't exist? I dont know. All I know is that there is around 2 million of them watching every Monday and Friday. Actually fuck that. Around 4 million people decided to give Smackdown a shot few months ago, so it clearly shows that there is people put there willing to give pro wrestling a shot.


YES! 



RapShepard said:


> This argument is so ridiculous and built in fear of failure. "Hey those millions of people that spent watching wrestling for years at a time, multiple times throughout history weren't really fans". Like seriously what type of argument is this.
> 
> The fact that y'all are seriously trying to argue that promotions shouldn't be trying to create fans is absurd. For the umpteenth time, if you as a fan don't think wrestling can ever be popular again fine. Do you really think WWE, AEW, Impact, ROH, MLW, NWA, PWG, and whatever other promotions should be operating under the notion that there's a limit on how big their fan base can be?


YES!


----------



## ripcitydisciple

RapShepard said:


> This argument is so ridiculous and built in fear of failure. "Hey those millions of people that spent watching wrestling for years at a time, multiple times throughout history weren't really fans". Like seriously what type of argument is this.
> 
> The fact that y'all are seriously trying to argue that promotions shouldn't be trying to create fans is absurd. For the umpteenth time, if you as a fan don't think wrestling can ever be popular again fine. Do you really think WWE, AEW, Impact, ROH, MLW, NWA, PWG, and whatever other promotions should be operating under the notion that there's a limit on how big their fan base can be?


No what is ridiculous is the fact that because AEW is not growing as fast as YOU want them to that means they are failing and slowly dying. That is the bottom line to all this.

This just another example of a low attention span and wanting things this instant. Instead of being patient and letting things take their natural course.

I don't understand how any of you can even talk about AEW 'failing' at this point in time, seeing how TNT executives were estimating them being in the 500k range when AEW first started and they have been higher then those estimates since day 1. 

How do you even have a leg to stand on?

I'll answer that: You don't

Until the ratings drop to those figures that TNT was expecting any talk about AEW failing or other 'doom and gloom' bullshit you guys what to conjure up in your heads is asinine and worthless in regards to AEW and their progress at this moment.


----------



## The Wood

ripcitydisciple said:


> No what is ridiculous is the fact that because AEW is not growing as fast as YOU want them to that means they are failing and slowly dying. That is the bottom line to all this.
> 
> This just another example of a low attention span and wanting things this instant. Instead of being patient and letting things take their natural course.
> 
> I don't understand how any of you can even talk about AEW 'failing' at this point in time, seeing how TNT executives were estimating them being in the 500k range when AEW first started and they have been higher then those estimates since day 1.
> 
> How do you even have a leg to stand on?
> 
> I'll answer that: You don't
> 
> Until the ratings drop to those figures that TNT was expecting any talk about AEW failing or other 'doom and gloom' bullshit you guys what to conjure up in your heads is asinine and worthless in regards to AEW and their progress at this moment.


We don’t know what TNT wanted from Dynamite. We know what Meltzer said they were “expecting.” I don’t think anyone should trust him on this.


----------



## RapShepard

ripcitydisciple said:


> No what is ridiculous is the fact that because AEW is not growing as fast as YOU want them to that means they are failing and slowly dying. That is the bottom line to all this.
> 
> This just another example of a low attention span and wanting things this instant. Instead of being patient and letting things take their natural course.
> 
> I don't understand how any of you can even talk about AEW 'failing' at this point in time, seeing how TNT executives were estimating them being in the 500k range when AEW first started and they have been higher then those estimates since day 1.
> 
> How do you even have a leg to stand on?
> 
> I'll answer that: You don't
> 
> Until the ratings drop to those figures that TNT was expecting any talk about AEW failing or other 'doom and gloom' bullshit you guys what to conjure up in your heads is asinine and worthless in regards to AEW and their progress at this moment.


Again this is when you need context to conversations you're jumping in on. I didn't say they were dying or failing. I said if they accepted the silly notion that they couldn't grow that the would stagnate and eventually die. Below is the beginning of the conversation you jumped in to with no context or reading comprehension to understand what you're responding to. 

1st is this post



DaveRA said:


> Ridiculously low rating for a great episode of tv. So many “experts” out there on why ratings do what they do ...
> 
> there are many examples of rubbish shows rating through the roof, and quality shows struggling for an audience.
> 
> whilst dynamite isn’t struggling for an audience, it boggles my mind how it doesn‘t garner 1.5 million viewers, given what other programs out there manage To draw that number.


2nd is my reply



RapShepard said:


> While they do totally fine ratings wise they're not cracking a million because they and NXT don't know how to appeal to casual wrestling fans. They know how to appeal to the most diehard fans and that's basically it.


3rd is a response to my reply to post 1



Danielallen1410 said:


> there is no longer a way to attract casual fans.
> 
> wrestling just isn’t popular and has had its day.
> 
> in the uk when I was a kid South Park was the most popular thing to watch , now very few watch it but it’s still on tv.
> 
> wrestling is similar, times have changed. AEW do well to get the viewers they do.


4th is me responding to the reply, to my reply. 



RapShepard said:


> Whether that's true or not, that's still the job of the promotions to attempt to do. Unless they want to stagnate until they meet a slow death.


With good reading comprehension you'd understand the above post means that with the attitude of @Danielallen1410 they will die, not that they in general are dying.


----------



## Hitman1987

Two Sheds said:


> Quick math, black and white with no emotional arguments:
> 
> Premiere: 1,409,000
> Average 2019 with premiere included: 911,000
> Average 2019 excluding premiere: 865,727
> Average 2020: 811,843
> Average 2021 so far: 766,167
> 
> Percent drop from premiere number vs average of 10/9/19 (week after premiere) through 2/10/21: 42.05%
> 
> Percentage drop of 2019 average (including premiere) to 2020 average: 10.88%
> Percentage drop of 2019 average to 2020 average (not including premiere): 6.22%
> Percentage drop of average 2020 vs average 2021 so far: 5.63%
> 
> Key demo:
> 
> Premiere: 0.68
> Average 2019 with premiere included: 0.39
> Average 2019 excluding premiere: 0.36
> Average 2020: 0.31
> Average 2021 so far: 0.30
> 
> 
> Percent drop from premiere number vs average of 10/9/19 (week after premiere) through 2/10/21: 52.81%
> 
> Percentage drop of 2019 average (including premiere) to 2020 average: 19.73%
> Percentage drop of 2019 average to 2020 average (not including premiere): 13.94%
> Percentage drop of average 2020 vs average 2021 so far: 3.84%
> 
> I did all this in Exel in about ten minutes so if I missed something let me know. I obviously excluded the three Wednesdays in 2020 they did not air but included when they aired Dynamite the other days of the week in its place.


As you’ve gone through the trouble of putting the data into excel is there a way you can copy the data to a graph, that will make it visually easier then.

Could possibly update it week on week 👀


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Klitschko said:


> How to attract wrestling fans that don't exist? I dont know. All I know is that there is around 2 million of them watching every Monday and Friday. Actually fuck that. Around 4 million people decided to give Smackdown a shot few months ago, so it clearly shows that there is people out there willing to give pro wrestling a shot.


Right. So because WWE gets those numbers AEW automatically should too?


----------



## RapShepard

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Right. So because WWE gets those numbers AEW automatically should too?


Fucking christ clearly the point was, there's at least X amount of people that watch wrestling weekly they could go after. Then after that there's even more that have shown recent interest.


----------



## Klitschko

Rap nailed it.


----------



## The Wood

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Right. So because WWE gets those numbers AEW automatically should too?


There’s no reason why they shouldn’t be able to get them. Your use of the word “automatically” is weird and combative. Automatic is the 750k or whatever viewers they do get.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW matching WWE's ratings is unrealistic IMO. It was never going to happen in the short-term and they are probably closer than many expected (to RAW anyway), even with NXT eating into their potential viewership, due to RAW's sharp decline.

If it was 1997 and AEW forms, snatching Hulk Hogan and Bret Hart to lead their promotion, then yes they could become a near instant challenger for the big two, because they would've had the incredible star power of Hulk Hogan and one of the WWF's top two stars at the time. And no doubt a national TV deal to go with it.

But AEW entered a business where WWE's ratings were going down on a yearly basis, most of the so-called 'casuals' seemed to have moved on to Netflix or whatever, and pro wrestling had become more niche than at any point since the mid-90s (pre-nWo, WWF New Gen/Hulkamania in WCW era).

So while WWE has decades of brand recognition and nostalgia to lean on, not to mention lots of expertise and more resources (they have signed 24 new wrestlers in the past couple of weeks!), AEW basically formed on the back of the popularity of the Elite/All In, which brought a hardcore audience.

Moxley and Jericho were big signings but neither is a mega-draw to propel AEW to the same ratings level especially as WWE can still draw solely on being such an institution (even as its worst show in years, RAW bottoms out at 1.7m).

AEW's best chance of matching WWE in the medium-term may in fact just to be to hold what they have and see if RAW keeps dropping. They won't be catching Smackdown any time soon. If the NHL does move to USA, with Wednesday night being big for hockey, it could give AEW a chance of running unopposed when they would probably be averaging closer to a million.

I'm also low key hoping the new second show is on TBS and runs unopposed. If they don't fill it with jobbers, it could do a surprisingly big rating if unopposed by wrestling.


----------



## The Wood

3venflow said:


> AEW matching WWE's ratings is unrealistic IMO. It was never going to happen in the short-term and they are probably closer than many expected (to RAW anyway), even with NXT eating into their potential viewership, due to RAW's sharp decline.
> 
> If it was 1997 and AEW forms, snatching Hulk Hogan and Bret Hart to lead their promotion, then yes they could become a near instant challenger for the big two, because they would've had the incredible star power of Hulk Hogan and one of the WWF's top two stars at the time. And no doubt a national TV deal to go with it.
> 
> But AEW entered a business where WWE's ratings were going down on a yearly basis, most of the so-called 'casuals' seemed to have moved on to Netflix or whatever, and pro wrestling had become more niche than at any point since the mid-90s (pre-nWo, WWF New Gen/Hulkamania in WCW era).
> 
> So while WWE has decades of brand recognition and nostalgia to lean on, not to mention lots of expertise and more resources (they have signed 24 new wrestlers in the past couple of weeks!), AEW basically formed on the back of the popularity of the Elite/All In, which brought a hardcore audience.
> 
> Moxley and Jericho were big signings but neither is a mega-draw to propel AEW to the same ratings level especially as WWE can still draw solely on being such an institution (even as its worst show in years, RAW bottoms out at 1.7m).
> 
> AEW's best chance of matching WWE in the medium-term may in fact just to be to hold what they have and see if RAW keeps dropping. They won't be catching Smackdown any time soon. If the NHL does move to USA, with Wednesday night being big for hockey, it could give AEW a chance of running unopposed when they would probably be averaging closer to a million.
> 
> I'm also low key hoping the new second show is on TBS and runs unopposed. If they don't fill it with jobbers, it could do a surprisingly big rating if unopposed by wrestling.


There’s no reason they couldn’t have done ratings comparable to Raw. There’s no reason they couldn’t have gotten a couple of million viewers short-term.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

RapShepard said:


> Fucking christ clearly the point was, there's at least X amount of people that watch wrestling weekly they could go after. Then after that there's even more that have shown recent interest.


But aren't they losing viewers? So clearly there isn't as much interest there as y'all think it is.


----------



## 3venflow

Take NXT off the air and Dynamite probably gets within a half million of RAW some weeks, but WWE knows NXT has a hardcore element like AEW because it's full of ex-indie/internet/Japan darlings with good workrate, so therefore shares an element of the same audience (the proof is there when one doesn't air on Weds, the other show always shoots up - AEW passed a million, NXT passed 800k). NXT is effectively a blockade.

But even if NXT doesn't exist, AEW is up against a juggernaut and doesn't really have a Hogan/Austin/Rock-esque figure to lead the attack (Mox is more of an anti-hero, Jericho is old and a heel... so that leaves Cody as probably their most sellable babyface and he ain't close to the Hogan/Austin/Rock level), so it's not an easy task to match WWE programming ratings. 'WWE' is ingrained in many people's minds from growing up, so they will check back and turn it on just out of habit sometimes.


----------



## RapShepard

The Raw Smackdown said:


> But aren't they losing viewers? So clearly there isn't as much interest there as y'all think it is.


[emoji2367] the point is they should be trying to grow, that it's their job to grow, that their is clearly an audience they can reach.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

The Wood said:


> There’s no reason they couldn’t have done ratings comparable to Raw. There’s no reason they couldn’t have gotten a couple of million viewers short-term.


There's plenty of reasons. You just won't accept them. That's all it is.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

RapShepard said:


> [emoji2367] the point is they should be trying to grow, that it's their job to grow, that their is clearly an audience they can reach.


If they ditched the E then they're not gonna stick with AEW. It's not their job to reach an audience that's not there.


----------



## The Wood

The Raw Smackdown said:


> There's plenty of reasons. You just won't accept them. That's all it is.


What you won’t accept is that there are 2 million people who watch wrestling on Mondays and Fridays, respectively. These are people who watch an allegedly bad product. There’s no reason AEW couldn’t be doing that well, lol.


----------



## One Shed

The Raw Smackdown said:


> There's plenty of reasons. You just won't accept them. That's all it is.


One of the big reasons is AEW is not presenting a consistent product that potential viewers wish to watch.


----------



## The Wood

The Raw Smackdown said:


> If they ditched the E then they're not gonna stick with AEW. It's not their job to reach an audience that's not there.


Why wouldn’t they ditch the WWE for AEW? Oh, because the products are too similar.

I don’t know what WWE’s ratings going down has to do with anything.


----------



## RapShepard

The Raw Smackdown said:


> If they ditched the E then they're not gonna stick with AEW. It's not their job to reach an audience that's not there.


Okay you're right. AEW shouldn't try to get the rest of that 2 million people who watch wrestling week. AEW shouldn't try to create new wrestling fans. They should just quit because this right now is the best they can hope for.


----------



## 3venflow

Wood, the reason is: it's the WWE. Everyone has known about it for decades, a huge number of males now in their 20s, 30s and 40s grew up with it. That kind of brand recognition will always count for something in TV ratings.

Take 'The Simpsons' for example. The first 10 seasons are legendary. Since season 10 the quality has dropped and it barely resembles what it used to be now (season 32). I've found it unwatchable for years... yet even with a yearly viewership decline, it still gets 3.1m viewers per episode. A far cry from the heights of 13-15m, but still a big audience.

AEW is an upstart and when was the last time an upstart truly competed with the top dogs in America? Well, it didn't happen in the 90s (ECW was niche as can be and even when it expanded, couldn't touch WWF and WCW), 00s or 10s, so we'd probably have to delve into the historical archives.


----------



## Prosper

3venflow said:


> AEW matching WWE's ratings is unrealistic IMO. It was never going to happen in the short-term and they are probably closer than many expected (to RAW anyway), even with NXT eating into their potential viewership, due to RAW's sharp decline.
> 
> If it was 1997 and AEW forms, snatching Hulk Hogan and Bret Hart to lead their promotion, then yes they could become a near instant challenger for the big two, because they would've had the incredible star power of Hulk Hogan and one of the WWF's top two stars at the time. And no doubt a national TV deal to go with it.
> 
> But AEW entered a business where WWE's ratings were going down on a yearly basis, most of the so-called 'casuals' seemed to have moved on to Netflix or whatever, and pro wrestling had become more niche than at any point since the mid-90s (pre-nWo, WWF New Gen/Hulkamania in WCW era).
> 
> So while WWE has decades of brand recognition and nostalgia to lean on, not to mention lots of expertise and more resources (they have signed 24 new wrestlers in the past couple of weeks!), AEW basically formed on the back of the popularity of the Elite/All In, which brought a hardcore audience.
> 
> Moxley and Jericho were big signings but neither is a mega-draw to propel AEW to the same ratings level especially as WWE can still draw solely on being such an institution (even as its worst show in years, RAW bottoms out at 1.7m).
> 
> AEW's best chance of matching WWE in the medium-term may in fact just to be to hold what they have and see if RAW keeps dropping. They won't be catching Smackdown any time soon. If the NHL does move to USA, with Wednesday night being big for hockey, it could give AEW a chance of running unopposed when they would probably be averaging closer to a million.
> 
> I'm also low key hoping the new second show is on TBS and runs unopposed. If they don't fill it with jobbers, it could do a surprisingly big rating if unopposed by wrestling.





3venflow said:


> Take NXT off the air and Dynamite probably gets within a half million of RAW some weeks, but WWE knows NXT has a hardcore element like AEW because it's full of ex-indie/internet/Japan darlings with good workrate, so therefore shares an element of the same audience (the proof is there when one doesn't air on Weds, the other show always shoots up - AEW passed a million, NXT passed 800k). NXT is effectively a blockade.
> 
> But even if NXT doesn't exist, AEW is up against a juggernaut and doesn't really have a Hogan/Austin/Rock-esque figure to lead the attack (Mox is more of an anti-hero, Jericho is old and a heel... so that leaves Cody as probably their most sellable babyface and he ain't close to the Hogan/Austin/Rock level), so it's not an easy task to match WWE programming ratings. 'WWE' is ingrained in many people's minds from growing up, so they will check back and turn it on just out of habit sometimes.





3venflow said:


> Wood, the reason is: it's the WWE. Everyone has known about it for decades, a huge number of males now in their 20s, 30s and 40s grew up with it. That kind of brand recognition will always count for something in TV ratings.
> 
> Take 'The Simpsons' for example. The first 10 seasons are legendary. Since season 10 the quality has dropped and it barely resembles what it used to be now (season 32). I've found it unwatchable for years... yet even with a yearly viewership decline, it still gets 3.1m viewers per episode. A far cry from the heights of 13-15m, but still a big audience.
> 
> AEW is an upstart and when was the last time an upstart truly competed with the top dogs in America? Well, it didn't happen in the 90s (ECW was niche as can be and even when it expanded, couldn't touch WWF and WCW), 00s or 10s, so we'd probably have to delve into the historical archives.


Ive been saying all of this since the beginning. You’re honestly wasting your time my guy. One thing I’ve learned about WF is that a lot of people here don’t care or even want to consider the details. You broke it down perfectly but give it a week and the same people will post the same arguments like they don’t know better.


----------



## The Wood

3venflow said:


> Wood, the reason is: it's the WWE. Everyone has known about it for decades, a huge number of males now in their 20s, 30s and 40s grew up with it. That kind of brand recognition will always count for something in TV ratings.
> 
> Take 'The Simpsons' for example. The first 10 seasons are legendary. Since season 10 the quality has dropped and it barely resembles what it used to be now (season 32). I've found it unwatchable for years... yet even with a yearly viewership decline, it still gets 3.1m viewers per episode. A far cry from the heights of 13-15m, but still a big audience.
> 
> AEW is an upstart and when was the last time an upstart truly competed with the top dogs in America? Well, it didn't happen in the 90s (ECW was niche as can be and even when it expanded, couldn't touch WWF and WCW), 00s or 10s, so we'd probably have to delve into the historical archives.


So Rick and Morty flopped, right? I guess Family Guy only gets a few hundred thousand viewers. South Park shouldn’t even try.

Brand recognition might explain why some people still watch. It doesn’t explain why AEW can’t get over itself.

No show should ever dream of getting more viewers than Law & Order: SVU if we are just going to use brand recognition and longevity as a market.

NEW and FRESH can be used to promote yourself.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

The Wood said:


> What you won’t accept is that there are 2 million people who watch wrestling on Mondays and Fridays, respectively. These are people who watch an allegedly bad product. There’s no reason AEW couldn’t be doing that well, lol.


And what YOU won't accept is that it doesn't work like that.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

The Wood said:


> So Rick and Morty flopped, right? I guess Family Guy only gets a few hundred thousand viewers. South Park shouldn’t even try.
> 
> Brand recognition might explain why some people still watch. It doesn’t explain why AEW can’t get over itself.
> 
> No show should ever dream of getting more viewers than Law & Order: SVU if we are just going to use brand recognition and longevity as a market.
> 
> NEW and FRESH can be used to promote yourself.


And just like that you proved my point.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

RapShepard said:


> Okay you're right. AEW shouldn't try to get the rest of that 2 million people who watch wrestling week. AEW shouldn't try to create new wrestling fans. They should just quit because this right now is the best they can hope for.


If there's wrestling fans then yes they should try to get them. 

But these elusive casual fans that don't exist? AEW shouldn't bother. That's my point.


----------



## RapShepard

The Raw Smackdown said:


> If there's wrestling fans then yes they should try to get them.
> 
> *But these elusive casual fans that don't exist? AEW shouldn't bother. That's my point.*


What is a logical business reason for them not to even attempt to draw in casual fans and create new fans?


----------



## La Parka

The Raw Smackdown said:


> If there's wrestling fans then yes they should try to get them.
> 
> But these elusive casual fans that don't exist? AEW shouldn't bother. That's my point.


How elusive are they?

Raw and Smackdown consistently draw millions.

AEW drew a million a handful of times but they keep providing lacklustre content for the people that do tune in.


----------



## Klitschko

RapShepard said:


> What is a logical business reason for them not to even attempt to draw in casual fans and create new fans?


Its too hard. Its much easier to just stay doing what you're comfortable with and hoping that eventually WWE will drop down to your level instead of you trying to be the best possible show you could be.


----------



## RapShepard

Klitschko said:


> Its too hard. Its much easier to just stay doing what you're comfortable with and hoping that eventually WWE will drop down to your level instead of you trying to be the best possible show you could be.


 Obviously there's no easy answer to how to attract new fans. But saying not to try is just baffling lol


----------



## Prosper

La Parka said:


> How elusive are they?
> 
> Raw and Smackdown consistently draw millions.
> 
> AEW drew a million a handful of times but they keep providing lacklustre content for the people that do tune in.


You say this like they're getting 5 million new cable viewers a week. It's the same 1.5 - 1.7 mil loyal cable viewers watching RAW and the same 2.0 mil loyal cable viewers watching SD. AEW also has its baseline cable average of 750 - 800K.

Let's not pretend that there aren't people out there who choose to watch ONLY WWE and not even give other promotions a chance. Look no further than the WWE section. There are WWE fans who watch 7 hours of WWE content every week and don't want to add another 2.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

RapShepard said:


> What is a logical business reason for them not to even attempt to draw in casual fans and create new fans?


Because they don't exist and hasn't since probably The Attitude Era?


----------



## RapShepard

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Because they don't exist and hasn't since probably The Attitude Era?


Y'all really don't believe AEW can do better or be bigger


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> Y'all really don't believe AEW can do better or be bigger


I think it's just that people realize that there is no formula. If there was then Vince would have figured it out. You can't just wave a wand and make wrestling as big as it was in the 90's.

I think AEW is definitely trying though. How are they not? They put on a very entertaining product every week. What should they do differently? You ask most people that question and you know what they will say in a nutshell?

"Push my favorite wrestler and book the show in alignment with my idea of what good booking is and everyone will come back".

"They pushed Omega mehh and I don't like him mehh that's why the numbers dropped" thereby ignoring the fact that everyone is different and there are multiple reasons why audience sizes fluctuate every week as they sit there and stream the show and illegally stream PPV's thereby not contributing to ratings in any way.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

RapShepard said:


> Y'all really don't believe AEW can do better or be bigger


No. It can be.. just not with these "casual wrestling fans". They're better off getting lasped fans imo.


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> I think it's just that people realize that there is no formula. If there was then Vince would have figured it out. You can't just wave a wand and make wrestling as big as it was in the 90's.
> 
> I think AEW is definitely trying though. How are they not? They put on a very entertaining product every week. What should they do differently? You ask most people that question and you know what they will say in a nutshell?
> 
> "Push my favorite wrestler and book the show in alignment with my idea of what good booking is and everyone will come back".
> 
> "They pushed Omega mehh and I don't like him mehh that's why the numbers dropped" thereby ignoring the fact that everyone is different and there are multiple reasons why audience sizes fluctuate every week as they sit there and stream the show and illegally stream PPV's thereby not contributing to ratings in any way.


Of course it's not an easy task, I'm just arguing against the notion that they shouldn't even try to create new fans or get the fans who may watch Raw/SmackDown and not them. If it was simple it definitely would've been done by somebody by now. Though I think the simplest answer is like with the last 2 booms some company is eventually going to figure out how to incorporate the attitude of current society with a good mix of celebrity influence. 




The Raw Smackdown said:


> No. It can be.. just not with these "casual wrestling fans". They're better off getting lasped fans imo.


 they should be going after both is the point. Even if they got every lapsed fan of the past 40 years and we're getting 33 million viewers, they still should go "hey how can we get to 35 million viewers".


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

RapShepard said:


> Of course it's not an easy task, I'm just arguing against the notion that they shouldn't even try to create new fans or get the fans who may watch Raw/SmackDown and not them. If it was simple it definitely would've been done by somebody by now. Though I think the simplest answer is like with the last 2 booms some company is eventually going to figure out how to incorporate the attitude of current society with a good mix of celebrity influence.
> 
> 
> they should be going after both is the point. Even if they got every lapsed fan of the past 40 years and we're getting 33 million viewers, they still should go "hey how can we get to 35 million viewers".


But again. Casual fans don't exist. So what sense does it make to try for an audience that isn't there?


----------



## RapShepard

The Raw Smackdown said:


> But again. Casual fans don't exist. So what sense does it make to try for an audience that isn't there?


Casual fans exist in pretty much every form of entertainment. How to get them is a tough question. But just going "nope, nobody could ever be a casual fan of wrestling, so let's not even try to draw them in" is a silly stance. MMA and Boxing are perfect examples of businesses similar to wrestling where they have a dedicated core that drives the business, but with the right circumstances they can draw in casual viewers and maybe out of those eyes create new long term fans. How many long term fans did the UFC create with The Ultimate Fighter, pushing GSP, pushing Brock, pushing Ronda, or pushing Conor.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

RapShepard said:


> Casual fans exist in pretty much every form of entertainment.


No they don't lol. At least not in wrestling.


----------



## RapShepard

The Raw Smackdown said:


> No they don't lol. At least not in wrestling.


Yes, they do. Do you think everybody that consumes something is a diehard fan?


----------



## Klitschko

The Raw Smackdown said:


> No they don't lol. At least not in wrestling.


Any actual proof of this?


----------



## La Parka

Prosper said:


> You say this like they're getting 5 million new cable viewers a week. It's the same 1.5 - 1.7 mil loyal cable viewers watching RAW and the same 2.0 mil loyal cable viewers watching SD. AEW also has its baseline cable average of 750 - 800K.
> 
> Let's not pretend that there aren't people out there who choose to watch ONLY WWE and not even give other promotions a chance. Look no further than the WWE section. There are WWE fans who watch 7 hours of WWE content every week and don't want to add another 2.


Many people have given AEW a chance.

They’ve likely seen social media clips of AEW or watched the program every now and then.

The reason why WWE fans aren’t adding 2 hours to their weekly wrestling schedule is because AEW has done everything it could to look like WWE.






































These are the things that people would expect to see on a Monday night raw. Most people do not enjoy these types of segments and likely roll their eyes when they happen but they accept it because they still love wrestling and WWE has always been there. With that in mind, why would any WWE fan NEED to watch AEW? All the characters they’ve cared about for years are still in WWE. The majority of talented wrestlers in the world are working for WWE and the championships, ppvs and match concepts that they love are still going strong. AEW is just as goofy (if not goofier) with a less talented roster.

It’s like any television genre. If Rick and Morty had a similar vibe to the Simpson’s, most people would stick with the Simpson’s (despite all the flaws of modern day Simpson’s).


----------



## Prosper

La Parka said:


> Many people have given AEW a chance.
> 
> They’ve likely seen social media clips of AEW or watched the program every now and then.
> 
> The reason why WWE fans aren’t adding 2 hours to their weekly wrestling schedule is because AEW has done everything it could to look like WWE.
> 
> View attachment 97382
> View attachment 97383
> View attachment 97384
> View attachment 97385
> View attachment 97386
> 
> 
> These are the things that people would expect to see on a Monday night raw. Most people do not enjoy these types of segments and likely roll their eyes when they happen but they accept it because they still love wrestling and WWE has always been there. With that in mind, why would any WWE fan NEED to watch AEW? All the characters they’ve cared about for years are still in WWE. The majority of talented wrestlers in the world are working for WWE and the championships, ppvs and match concepts that they love are still going strong. AEW is just as goofy (if not goofier) with a less talented roster.
> 
> It’s like any television genre. If Rick and Morty had a similar vibe to the Simpson’s, most people would stick with the Simpson’s (despite all the flaws of modern day Simpson’s).


So what about the other 85-90% of the show that hasn't included orange juice and lawyers? You telling me a WWE fan who watches a whole AEW show from top to bottom and gets one OC segment with a banger for the main event and everything else serious will decide that is enough to not give them another chance? Or is it an issue of loyalty?


----------



## One Shed

La Parka said:


> Many people have given AEW a chance.
> 
> They’ve likely seen social media clips of AEW or watched the program every now and then.
> 
> The reason why WWE fans aren’t adding 2 hours to their weekly wrestling schedule is because AEW has done everything it could to look like WWE.
> 
> View attachment 97382
> View attachment 97383
> View attachment 97384
> View attachment 97385
> View attachment 97386
> 
> 
> These are the things that people would expect to see on a Monday night raw. Most people do not enjoy these types of segments and likely roll their eyes when they happen but they accept it because they still love wrestling and WWE has always been there. With that in mind, why would any WWE fan NEED to watch AEW? All the characters they’ve cared about for years are still in WWE. The majority of talented wrestlers in the world are working for WWE and the championships, ppvs and match concepts that they love are still going strong. AEW is just as goofy (if not goofier) with a less talented roster.
> 
> It’s like any television genre. If Rick and Morty had a similar vibe to the Simpson’s, most people would stick with the Simpson’s (despite all the flaws of modern day Simpson’s).


Great post.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

RapShepard said:


> Yes, they do. Do you think everybody that consumes something is a diehard fan?


No. But in wrestling the die-hards are the only ones watching.


----------



## RapShepard

The Raw Smackdown said:


> No. But in wrestling the die-hards are the only ones watching.


Sure 2 million die hard fans got it


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

RapShepard said:


> Sure 2 million die hard fans got it


Yep. Sounds about right.


----------



## Klitschko

Prosper said:


> So what about the other 85-90% of the show that hasn't included orange juice and lawyers? You telling me a WWE fan who watches a whole AEW show from top to bottom and gets one OC segment with a banger for the main event and everything else serious will decide that is enough to not give them another chance? Or is it an issue of loyalty?


AEW has some things similar and I have made it clear that I personally prefer Smackdown over it, but thats because Smackdown is usually pretty safe. AEW on the other hand, has some stupid stuff, and some WWE like things, but they also have some great crazy no dq matches that happen all the time. They have some great promos because they have a lot of guys on their roster that can talk. They take a lot more chances like with this new NJPW/Impact storyline and we are seeing new characters all the time. Some of them might be a miss for sure, but sometimes they also really nail it like the Sting surprise for example.


----------



## Klitschko

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Yep. Sounds about right.


Just because AEW can't get some of the casuals, doesn't mean that they don't exist. Stop acting like they are a perfect company and doing everything perfectly and that the only possible explanation out there is that there is no casual fans left, because it couldn't be anything AEW related. Its shit like this that makes some of us AEW fans look bad. Fucking admit once in a blue moon that they are not perfect instead of defending them to death every single time on every single subject. Be more like @Prosper . He loves AEW for example, but I have seen him multiple times call out bullshit and admit when something is bad.


----------



## Pippen94

United States • Now • Twitter Trending Hashtags and Topics


HOT RIGHT NOW: Ian Book, #WWERAW, Dolphins, Saints, #FinsUp... Explore all top Twitter trends and popular hashtags today United States




getdaytrends.com





Women's tournament trending


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Klitschko said:


> Just because AEW can't get some of the casuals, doesn't mean that they don't exist. Stop acting like they are a perfect company and doing everything perfectly and that the only possible explanation out there is that there is no casual fans left, because it couldn't be anything AEW related. Its shit like this that makes some of us AEW fans look bad. Fucking admit once in a blue moon that they are not perfect instead of defending them to death every single time on every single subject. Be more like @Prosper . He loves AEW for example, but I have seen him multiple times call out bullshit and admit when something is bad.


.....What the FUCK are you talking about?


----------



## ripcitydisciple

Klitschko said:


> Just because AEW can't get some of the casuals, doesn't mean that they don't exist. Stop acting like they are a perfect company and doing everything perfectly and that the only possible explanation out there is that there is no casual fans left, because it couldn't be anything AEW related. Its shit like this that makes some of us AEW fans look bad. Fucking admit once in a blue moon that they are not perfect instead of defending them to death every single time on every single subject. Be more like @Prosper . He loves AEW for example, but I have seen him multiple times call out bullshit and admit when something is bad.


I don't know about anyone else so I will just speak for myself; If I came on here and bitched about the stuff on AEW I didn't like, and every movie or tv show etc, just like the miserable people that I imagine they are in their lives do, I myself would get depression to the point that I would consider killing myself. There is already many things to complain about in the day to day actions of life itself and you want me to add complaining about the booking and decisions that happen with a wrestling promotion on a Internet forum? Really?

Well, sorry to disappoint you but the answer is no.

Now you are probably uncomfortable with the real talk that has just taken place but you jumping on someone for the fact some of us choose to see the glass as half full and not empty or having a realist perspective is insulting. Be it because of a positive outlook or personality characteristic, if one decides to not criticize like the rest of the group they should not be mocked or ridiculed for it.

After all it is a form of entertainment at the end of it all.


----------



## The Wood

AEW fans hate wrestling, I’m telling you. They’re literally saying don’t bother trying to grow and that being better is impossible. Mind-boggling.

If there are 2 million diehard wrestling fans (bullshit), how sad is it that AEW gets about a third of them to commit to their show?

Why can’t people understand that modern wrestling turns fans of wrestling away from wrestling. The embarrassing attempts at comedy, irony and basically being ashamed of what you’re supposed to be. THAT chases people away. It insults their intelligence. It wastes their time. They turn it off.

That’s why 1.4 million people who heard about wrestling on TNT went to check it out and now 900K is considering an AMAZING number for their show. A lot of them saw it and said “Fuck no” _because it isn’t what they want._


----------



## Pippen94

La Parka said:


> Many people have given AEW a chance.
> 
> They’ve likely seen social media clips of AEW or watched the program every now and then.
> 
> The reason why WWE fans aren’t adding 2 hours to their weekly wrestling schedule is because AEW has done everything it could to look like WWE.
> 
> View attachment 97382
> View attachment 97383
> View attachment 97384
> View attachment 97385
> View attachment 97386
> 
> 
> These are the things that people would expect to see on a Monday night raw. Most people do not enjoy these types of segments and likely roll their eyes when they happen but they accept it because they still love wrestling and WWE has always been there. With that in mind, why would any WWE fan NEED to watch AEW? All the characters they’ve cared about for years are still in WWE. The majority of talented wrestlers in the world are working for WWE and the championships, ppvs and match concepts that they love are still going strong. AEW is just as goofy (if not goofier) with a less talented roster.
> 
> It’s like any television genre. If Rick and Morty had a similar vibe to the Simpson’s, most people would stick with the Simpson’s (despite all the flaws of modern day Simpson’s).


Peak irony here with die hard fan saying show only appeals to die hard fans yet spent a year here posting about how they dislike show.


----------



## Pippen94

Klitschko said:


> How to attract wrestling fans that don't exist? I dont know. All I know is that there is around 2 million of them watching every Monday and Friday. Actually fuck that. Around 4 million people decided to give Smackdown a shot few months ago, so it clearly shows that there is people out there willing to give pro wrestling a shot.


Seen this before; knocking company for not meeting unrealistic expectation. 4 million was from football game lead in. Week after smack down did under 2 million. Not to mention smack down is network TV.
Cable show not going to do that number & in fact aew is bucking on cable by staying steady.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Peak irony here with die hard fan saying show only appeals to die hard fans yet spent a year here posting about how they dislike show.


Uh, what? Ironic is people saying they are fans of the product and only wanting them to appeal to the people they already appeal to. 



Pippen94 said:


> Seen this before; knocking company for not meeting unrealistic expectation. 4 million was from football game lead in. Week after smack down did under 2 million. Not to mention smack down is network TV.
> Cable show not going to do that number & in fact aew is bucking on cable by staying steady.


WWE is not exactly great television. Is SmackDown getting better? Yeah, sure. But they don’t get off the hook for losing people either. The eyeballs willing to watch you are potential fans. There is no way around that.


----------



## Mr316

Imagine Vince in 95 telling himself: “oh well, there’s nothing I can do to grow my audience. This is the best we can do. Oh well...”

He didn’t say that. He figured out what the audience wanted out there and a few years later 10 million people were watching wrestling on cable TV. 

Like someone mentioned, over 4 million watched the first Smackdown on Fox. There’s an audience out there willing to give wrestling a shot.


----------



## Mr316

The Raw Smackdown said:


> No they don't lol. At least not in wrestling.


You deserve to be banned for stupid post like this. Why do you think the Superbowl or a Mcgregor fight is watched by so many people compared to other football games or other UFC events? That’s what you call casuals.


----------



## The Wood

There are more wrestling fans who don’t currently watch anything that there are diehards that do. You even see them on places like here. Some are going to be hard to get back, but it’s not like all of them as having sworn off wrestling forever.


----------



## One Shed

The Wood said:


> There are more wrestling fans who don’t currently watch anything that there are diehards that do. You even see them on places like here. Some are going to be hard to get back, but it’s not like all of them as having sworn off wrestling forever.


Yup, the majority of wrestling fans currently watch no product at all. That was me for several years during LOLCENAWINS. I just stopped watching entirely with the exception of WrestleMania most years and the Rumble to use the Super Bowl comparison just mentioned. I came back really hoping to see a fresh approach from someone who claimed many times to have loved WCW back in the day and wanted a more sports based presentation vs WWE goofiness. That is why so many of us get frustrated when we see that exact same goofiness way too often. And those lapsed fan TOLD us exactly why they stopped watching too! But so many people on here live in a fantasy world where "there are no casual fans" and "NOTHING can be done to grow the audience" etc, why even try? It is hilariously delusional to me. A bunch of people living in 1995 perpetually.


----------



## Prosper

Two Sheds said:


> Yup, the majority of wrestling fans currently watch no product at all. That was me for several years during LOLCENAWINS. I just stopped watching entirely with the exception of WrestleMania most years and the Rumble to use the Super Bowl comparison just mentioned. I came back really hoping to see a fresh approach from someone who claimed many times to have loved WCW back in the day and wanted a more sports based presentation vs WWE goofiness. That is why so many of us get frustrated when we see that exact same goofiness way too often. And those lapsed fan TOLD us exactly why they stopped watching too! But so many people on here live in a fantasy world where "there are no casual fans" and "NOTHING can be done to grow the audience" etc, why even try? It is hilariously delusional to me. A bunch of people living in 1995 perpetually.


I understand where you’re coming from but you guys are really over-exaggerating the frequency of the goofiness on Dynamite. It’s like some of you just want to hone in on that and forget the rest. What goofiness has there been this year so far outside of the wedding? It’s been good show after good show. WCW wasn’t 100% serious either.


----------



## One Shed

Prosper said:


> I understand where you’re coming from but you guys are really over-exaggerating the frequency of the goofiness on Dynamite. It’s like some of you just want to hone in on that and forget the rest. What goofiness has there been this year so far outside of the wedding? It’s been good show after good show. WCW wasn’t 100% serious either.


It has gotten better. But one issue they seem to consistently have, is they like to follow up a strong show (thereby generating good word of mouth) which generally causes more eyes on the show the following week and do something goofy then. Like after Sting's debut. That show after that was bookended by the Bucks vs the Neon Bucks in a flippy/no selling/no psychology match and by Trashidy vs MJF of all people and after people saw that show they immediately dropped almost 200,000 viewers the following weak. People tuned in, saw they were still doing the goofy stuff, and tuned out.

For this year we saw FTR get banned from the building only to kidnap a small child, have that not to lead to any kind of actual resolution, and they get punished by being booked on the main card? How does any of that make sense?

Last week we had Jelly in the opening match. Any potential new fan is going to see that, roll their eyes, and change the channel.

We have had TWO matches with Cody vs a librarian that were not squashes.

There can really be no argument that the roster is bloated. Getting rid of the ten most embarrassing guys will go along way to making the show better and letting the talented guys shine more. You NEED jobbers and enhancement talent, but the thing that seems to be overlooked too much is that you need guys who are good at making the guy you are trying to get over LOOK good. Not just a guy to eat a pin eventually.


----------



## 3venflow

Two Sheds said:


> Like after Sting's debut. That show after that was bookended by the Bucks vs the Neon Bucks in a flippy/no selling/no psychology match and by Trashidy vs MJF of all people and after people saw that show they immediately dropped almost 200,000 viewers the following weak. People tuned in, saw they were still doing the goofy stuff, and tuned out.
> 
> For this year we saw FTR get banned from the building only to kidnap a small child, have that not to lead to any kind of actual resolution, and they get punished by being booked on the main card? How does any of that make sense?
> 
> Last week we had Jelly in the opening match. Any potential new fan is going to see that, roll their eyes, and change the channel.
> 
> We have had TWO matches with Cody vs a librarian that were not squashes.


I don't see most of these (besides FTR kidnapping Marko which I think Jungle Boy said he'd been let go?) as particularly goofy though. You left out the biggest example of goofiness lately - the wedding - but most of these are just questionable matchmaking.

Cody should never have faced Avalon on Dynamite and the match sucked, but when the bell rang it was still a straight-up wrestling match besides Jade's brief involvement.

I've been no fan of Janela, but his match with Darby was actually a pretty hot opener to Dynamite and his best non-hardcore match with the company. It was a filler defense for Darby and I thought it was better than a fair few TNT title matches (Cody vs. Sonny, vs. Quen, vs. Warhorse, vs. Scorpio Sky, Brodie vs. OC).

I think the ratio of serious to comedy in AEW now is pretty ok. Nearly every feud has an edge to it and there's nothing as annoying as Jericho vs. Cassidy going on. We've been getting a good main event every week and some pretty good undercard stuff like Dax vs. Jungle Boy, Britt vs. Thunder, PAC vs. Eddie and Wardlow vs. Hager, all of them serious in tone. Also, the Inner Circle have gotten a lot more serious since the Vegas stuff.



> You NEED jobbers and enhancement talent, but the thing that seems to be overlooked too much is that you need guys who are good at making the guy you are trying to get over LOOK good. Not just a guy to eat a pin eventually.


Well, this is definitely true but I think the message is starting to get through after complaints about Cody vs. Avalon. PAC squashed Nemeth on Dynamite. It was 4 minutes long and nearly all PAC beating the shit out of him. Hangman and Hardy also made short work of Chaos Project.


----------



## One Shed

3venflow said:


> I don't see most of these (besides FTR kidnapping Marko which I think Jungle Boy said he'd been let go?) as particularly goofy though. You left out the biggest example of goofiness lately - the wedding - but most of these are just questionable matchmaking.
> 
> Cody should never have faced Avalon on Dynamite and the match sucked, but when the bell rang it was still a straight-up wrestling match besides Jade's brief involvement.
> 
> I've been no fan of Janela, but his match with Darby was actually a pretty hot opener to Dynamite and his best non-hardcore match with the company. It was a filler defense for Darby and I thought it was better than a fair few TNT title matches (Cody vs. Sonny, vs. Quen, vs. Warhorse, vs. Scorpio Sky, Brodie vs. OC).
> 
> I think the ratio of serious to comedy in AEW now is pretty ok. Nearly every feud has an edge to it and there's nothing as annoying as Jericho vs. Cassidy going on. We've been getting a good main event every week and some pretty good undercard stuff like Dax vs. Jungle Boy, Britt vs. Thunder, PAC vs. Eddie and Wardlow vs. Hager, all of them serious in tone. Also, the Inner Circle have gotten a lot more serious since the Vegas stuff.


Well, I left out the wedding because @Prosper had already mentioned it, but yes of course that was the worst thing they have done this year by far.

I am including in my definition of goofiness the stuff where tiny librarians are booked as competitive with adults. If everyone can go 10-15 minutes with Cody, how long would it take him to beat a real competitor? Two hours?

Sure, it was the best Jelly match but that is not really high praise. My point was about the perception of people turning on a show and seeing him and turning it off. They would have not made it deep enough in the match to even see it. And you can see the drop off in the quarter hour rating that reflects that.

Like I said, it IS getting better. Insisting on Miro vs Trashidy at a PPV is ridiculous though. They have plenty of great guys and a lot of good prospects. They can get rid of the ten worst offenders very easily.



3venflow said:


> Well, this is definitely true but I think the message is starting to get through after complaints about Cody vs. Avalon. PAC squashed Nemeth on Dynamite. It was 4 minutes long and nearly all PAC beating the shit out of him. Hangman and Hardy also made short work of Chaos Project.


The fact that Chaos Project exists on their main show is an issue in and of itself. And what do we have this week? Hangman Page & Matt Hardy & Private Party vs. Hybrid-2 & Chaos Project. I am so sick of 8, 10, 12 man cluster matches. Get Hangman away from all this.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Mr316 said:


> You deserve to be banned for stupid post like this. Why do you think the Superbowl or a Mcgregor fight is watched by so many people compared to other football games or other UFC events? That’s what you call casuals.


Wrestling does not have casuals. Period.


----------



## Mr316

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Wrestling does not have casuals. Period.


Well, you’re totally clueless. My dad is a casual. He calls me on Wednesdays sometimes and asks me if I think the show is gonna be good and if there’s anything big advertised. If I say no, he won’t watch. If I tell him something big is gonna go down, he watches. That’s a casual. There are many people like him who are looking and waiting for major things to happen on a wrestling program. Not a random NJPW guy showing up on Dynamite. They want explosions, they want drama, they want crazy creative segments. That’s why casuals used to watch wrestling.


----------



## Mr316

.


----------



## Shock Street

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Wrestling does not have casuals. Period.


Can you define a casual fan then? Because for me a casual fan is someone who just watches the main show and doesn't engage otherwise. Going by PPV and Dark numbers, AEW has like 400k regulars that I would define as casual


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Mr316 said:


> Well, you’re totally clueless. My dad is a casual. He calls me on Wednesdays sometimes and asks me if I think the show is gonna be good and if there’s anything big advertised. If I say no, he won’t watch. If I tell him something big is gonna go down, he watches. That’s a casual. There are many people like him who are looking and waiting for major things to happen on a wrestling program. Not a random NJPW guy showing up on Dynamite. They want explosions, they want drama, they want crazy creative segments. That’s why casuals used to watch wrestling.


So then they don't exist.

You're also a liar too. I don't believe that story one bit.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Shock Street said:


> Can you define a casual fan then? Because for me a casual fan is someone who just watches the main show and doesn't engage otherwise. Going by PPV and Dark numbers, AEW has like 400k regulars that I would define as casual


Well from my understanding a casual fan is basically one that wants all the BS from the AE in wrestling and when that wasn't happening anymore they left.

Also love your name.


----------



## Shock Street

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Well from my understanding a casual fan is basically one that wants all the BS from the AE in wrestling and when that wasn't happening anymore they left.
> 
> Also love your name.


Thanks! I stole it from Goosebumps 😬

I see. I usually call those guys lapsed fans as opposed to casual fans.


----------



## Prosper

Two Sheds said:


> It has gotten better. But one issue they seem to consistently have, is they like to follow up a strong show (thereby generating good word of mouth) which generally causes more eyes on the show the following week and do something goofy then. Like after Sting's debut. That show after that was bookended by the Bucks vs the Neon Bucks in a flippy/no selling/no psychology match and by Trashidy vs MJF of all people and after people saw that show they immediately dropped almost 200,000 viewers the following weak. People tuned in, saw they were still doing the goofy stuff, and tuned out.
> 
> For this year we saw FTR get banned from the building only to kidnap a small child, have that not to lead to any kind of actual resolution, and they get punished by being booked on the main card? How does any of that make sense?
> 
> Last week we had Jelly in the opening match. Any potential new fan is going to see that, roll their eyes, and change the channel.
> 
> We have had TWO matches with Cody vs a librarian that were not squashes.
> 
> There can really be no argument that the roster is bloated. Getting rid of the ten most embarrassing guys will go along way to making the show better and letting the talented guys shine more. You NEED jobbers and enhancement talent, but the thing that seems to be overlooked too much is that you need guys who are good at making the guy you are trying to get over LOOK good. Not just a guy to eat a pin eventually.


I won't deny that they have issues with follow ups from time to time but that is hardly an issue related to goofiness. That's just an issue of booking the show in the best way possible, which Tony has been learning on the go. In recent weeks this year alone, match lengths have shortened and goofiness is almost non-existent. So the guy is certainly listening to the fanbase. 

As far as people tuning out due to goofy stuff, OC has been proven to have a million+ viewers to watch his segments, and he has also lost a whole lot of viewers for segments as well, so it's not like we can really gauge these things and say that this or that is the reason why people tune out. The FTR kidnapping thing and the TH2 wrestling on Dynamite I wouldn't consider remotely goofy. The FTR thing was just inconsistent booking which Tony needs to be better at. Joey Janela wrestled a serious match against Darby and the 2nd match against the librarians was mostly a squash when Cody was in the ring. Lee Johnson was the guy who took offense and the match didn't go longer than 5 minutes from what I remember. 

I agree with your point in getting rid of guys that don't belong such as Luther. No reason for them to be competitive, but it seems like that has been getting better. Hangman and PAC both squashed Nemeth in a match that would have gone 10 minutes each 2 months ago. The tag matches have also shortened in recent weeks. There's still work to be done to get the show all the way right but I think they have made significant progress for 13 months and have shown that they are willing to change things when the fans express their complaints about it.


----------



## The Wood

AEW is almost completely goofy. You may not agree, but you’re just going to be arguing semantics there. Two Sheds made a great list. The general tone of the show — Excalibur yelling and explaining nothing. JR being bored. Shiavone being a happy shill. Sting doing the same thing every week. Matt Hardy existing. Chris Jericho’s existence. Promoting comedy joshi. Working with TNA. This is all goofy as shit, and you’re not going to tell me “Hmm, I consider that (x).” No. It’s goofy.

And it doesn’t take much for a poison apple to ruin the batch anyway. I don’t want to have to swallow crap anymore. Give me a good, sensible show. Don’t try and take advantage of me by slipping a finger in because you think I can’t say no.


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> Yup, the majority of wrestling fans currently watch no product at all. That was me for several years during LOLCENAWINS. I just stopped watching entirely with the exception of WrestleMania most years and the Rumble to use the Super Bowl comparison just mentioned. I came back really hoping to see a fresh approach from someone who claimed many times to have loved WCW back in the day and wanted a more sports based presentation vs WWE goofiness. That is why so many of us get frustrated when we see that exact same goofiness way too often. And those lapsed fan TOLD us exactly why they stopped watching too! But so many people on here live in a fantasy world where "there are no casual fans" and "NOTHING can be done to grow the audience" etc, why even try? It is hilariously delusional to me. A bunch of people living in 1995 perpetually.


Lapsed fans aren't wrestling fans - if you don't watch how can you be a fan?!
Primary target for aew is generating new & younger fans for longtime. 
You can keep your lapsed fans


----------



## Pippen94

Shock Street said:


> Can you define a casual fan then? Because for me a casual fan is someone who just watches the main show and doesn't engage otherwise. Going by PPV and Dark numbers, AEW has like 400k regulars that I would define as casual


Casual fan is a nonsense term used to bash company. It's wishy washy & open to whatever interpretation depending on how bitter you are about the success they've achieved so far.


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Lapsed fans aren't wrestling fans - if you don't watch how can you be a fan?!
> Primary target for aew is generating new & younger fans for longtime.
> You can keep your lapsed fans


Translation: "I want to limit the amount I can grow a business."

Saying lapsed fans are not real wrestling fans is so insulting. A lot of people stopped watching because of a decade plus of dumbness and insulting content by the WWE. Does that make us not fans because we refused to watch crap? These fans CAN be brought back with the right product. They have told us why they left. A lot of us bought the network for years to watch the older stuff just not the new crap. Are THOSE people not fans? Why do you purposefully ignore data and common sense? It is complete nonsense to say there are no such thing as casual fans too.


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> Well, I left out the wedding because @Prosper had already mentioned it, but yes of course that was the worst thing they have done this year by far.
> 
> I am including in my definition of goofiness the stuff where tiny librarians are booked as competitive with adults. If everyone can go 10-15 minutes with Cody, how long would it take him to beat a real competitor? Two hours?
> 
> Sure, it was the best Jelly match but that is not really high praise. My point was about the perception of people turning on a show and seeing him and turning it off. They would have not made it deep enough in the match to even see it. And you can see the drop off in the quarter hour rating that reflects that.
> 
> Like I said, it IS getting better. Insisting on Miro vs Trashidy at a PPV is ridiculous though. They have plenty of great guys and a lot of good prospects. They can get rid of the ten worst offenders very easily.
> 
> 
> The fact that Chaos Project exists on their main show is an issue in and of itself. And what do we have this week? Hangman Page & Matt Hardy & Private Party vs. Hybrid-2 & Chaos Project. I am so sick of 8, 10, 12 man cluster matches. Get Hangman away from all this.


What you want is irrelevant - in fact it appears to be the opposite of what regularly does the highest rating. 
The wedding segment you hated was highest rated segment in a strong week for the show. It's no coincidence it featured Orange Cassidy who regularly draws largest audience & also moves most merchandize.
Aew should base booking on data & follow path of providing content which proves to be most popular.


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> What you want is irrelevant - in fact it appears to be the opposite of what regularly does the highest rating.
> The wedding segment you hated was highest rated segment in a strong week for the show. It's no coincidence it featured Orange Cassidy who regularly draws largest audience & also moves most merchandize.
> Aew should base booking on data & follow path of providing content which proves to be most popular.


Yeah, there IS a reason why the Jerry Springer Show lasted 27 years. There are people who want to see trash TV. But they would be limiting their potential growth by keeping the clowns on the screen. If you want to see goofs and weddings, you already have WWE which gets a ton more viewers. Why not just watch that?


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> Translation: "I want to limit the amount I can grow a business."
> 
> Saying lapsed fans are not real wrestling fans is so insulting. A lot of people stopped watching because of a decade plus of dumbness and insulting content by the WWE. Does that make us not fans because we refused to watch crap? These fans CAN be brought back with the right product. They have told us why they left. A lot of us bought the network for years to watch the older stuff just not the new crap. Are THOSE people not fans? Why do you purposefully ignore data and common sense? It is complete nonsense to say there are no such thing as casual fans too.


Targeting old fans with preconceived notion of what wrestling is (not Orange Cassidy apparently) limits audience. Look at wwe Wednesday show which is chiefly a straight wrestling show but has oldest average age of viewer. If you run off old fans to create new ones so be it.

Nobody can clearly define what casual fan means. It's been 228 pages already so it won't happen either. Just nonsense to diminish the support company has.


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Targeting old fans with preconceived notion of what wrestling is (not Orange Cassidy apparently) limits audience. Look at wwe Wednesday show which is chiefly a straight wrestling show but has oldest average age of viewer. If you run off old fans to create new ones so be it.
> 
> Nobody can clearly define what casual fan means. It's been 228 pages already so it won't happen either. Just nonsense to diminish the support company has.


Lapsed means used to watch but not currently, which is by far most wrestling fans. That does not necessarily mean old. A fan watching at 18 in 2005 would be 33 now, still in the middle of that precious demo everyone loves. Putting things on TV that most wrestling fans do not want to see is limiting the audience. WWE has been doing that for well over a decade and a large chunk of them stopped watching because of goofy stuff like Santino and Hornswoggle (Horrible overall but still more entertaining and watched by vastly more people than Trashidy and Marko). So you are not going to get potential lapsed fans back by doing a dollar store version of what WWE did to drive them away in the first place. If you want to watch goofs, go watch the New Day.

A casual fan to me is someone who will tune in when they have time or they here good things about what has been happening on the show, but if they miss a week or two they do not think about it. But if you hook them with good stuff, they could become a hardcore fan eventually (See 1996/1997).


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> Lapsed means used to watch but not currently, which is by far most wrestling fans. That does not necessarily mean old. A fan watching at 18 in 2005 would be 33 now, still in the middle of that precious demo everyone loves. Putting things on TV that most wrestling fans do not want to see is limiting the audience. WWE has been doing that for well over a decade and a large chunk of them stopped watching because of goofy stuff like Santino and Hornswoggle (Horrible overall but still more entertaining and watched by vastly more people than Trashidy and Marko). So you are not going to get potential lapsed fans back by doing a dollar store version of what WWE did to drive them away in the first place. If you want to watch goofs, go watch the New Day.
> 
> A casual fan to me is someone who will tune in when they have time or they here good things about what has been happening on the show, but if they miss a week or two they do not think about it. But if you hook them with good stuff, they could become a hardcore fan eventually (See 1996/1997).


Funny you have great reverence for lapsed fans who don't watch wrestling anymore & probably never will. Meanwhile ppl you refer distainfully as casuals like they're not real fans actually watch wrestling on the reg.

Whatever, aew shouldn't read this place for booking or business guidance. Company should look to win new fans not old. Also, learn from ratings not critics who want show to be like wwe Wednesday show which they soundly beat.


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Funny you have great reverence for lapsed fans who don't watch wrestling anymore & probably never will. Meanwhile ppl you refer distainfully as casuals like they're not real fans actually watch wrestling on the reg.
> 
> Whatever, aew shouldn't read this place for booking or business guidance. Company should look to win new fans not old. Also, learn from ratings not critics who want show to be like wwe Wednesday show which they soundly beat.


Literally no one is calling for AEW to be more like WWE. I just argued that point.

The whole point is to turn those casual fans into hardcore fans eventually. You will not do that by insulting their intelligence regularly.

Some of the posts in here come across as not WANTING AEW to grow. "Who cares about those millions of potential fans? Send in my clowns!"


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Because an all serious show is gonna bring them back...


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> Literally no one is calling for AEW to be more like WWE. I just argued that point.
> 
> The whole point is to turn those casual fans into hardcore fans eventually. You will not do that by insulting their intelligence regularly.
> 
> Some of the posts in here come across as not WANTING AEW to grow. "Who cares about those millions of potential fans? Send in my clowns!"


You want them to stop doing all the stuff which gets highest ratings - how dumb is that?!

Take out that stuff & you have wwe Wednesday. Every critic who's been in business for 50 years says wwe Wednesday is better show but aew does almost triple the demo.

Who should they listen to critics or ratings?!


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> You want them to stop doing all the stuff which gets highest ratings - how dumb is that?!
> 
> Take out that stuff & you have wwe Wednesday. Every critic who's been in business for 50 years says wwe Wednesday is better show but aew does almost triple the demo.
> 
> Who should they listen to critics or ratings?!


I want them to stop doing all the stuff that has lost WWE their ratings over the years. Put on a good, non-schizophrenic show that is actually laid out properly for television and does not insult your audience's intelligence. Get rid of the goofs and the guys who look like below average audience members (NXT is full of those guys too, with even more boring characters) and build some stars. RAW is a much dumber show and generally still does twice of AEW's average even at their all time lowest. They do the same DUMB stuff and get the same results. How about trying something not WWE lite?


----------



## The Wood

Argh, just because something gets the highest ratings in a limited range doesn’t mean it’s doing great. AEW, for wrestling, gets pretty damn bad ratings. Pointing to Orange Cassidy is like drawing the most to a community theatre. Why can’t people understand the cap it puts on them?

Lapsed fans exist all over the place. They wear shirts, make references, and honestly LOVE wrestling. Then you ask them if they watch, they chuckle a little and say “Nah. Not anymore.”

These people love wrestling but just hate the current product. It’s not hard to understand.


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Lapsed fans aren't wrestling fans - if you don't watch how can you be a fan?!
> Primary target for aew is generating new & younger fans for longtime.
> You can keep your lapsed fans


That's like saying fans of Stars that hater the prequels or hate the new movies and don't want to watch them anymore aren't Star Wars fans 



Pippen94 said:


> Casual fan is a nonsense term used to bash company. It's wishy washy & open to whatever interpretation depending on how bitter you are about the success they've achieved so far.


Casual fan isn't a nonsense term at all. It's a term that exist in all of entertainment. A casual fan would be someone who engages in a fandom, but isn't consumed by it. 

For instance I casually watch the NFL. I'll catch rival games for the Cincinnati Bengals and New York Giants, or if I'm with my dad watch a game. But my Sunday is consumed with making sure to watch as much football as possible. I can't tell you who's the top 5 Right Tackles in the league and shit like that. But I watch enough to know some of the top offensive skill players.


----------



## The Wood

RapShepard said:


> That's like saying fans of Stars that hater the prequels or hate the new movies and don't want to watch them anymore aren't Star Wars fans
> 
> 
> 
> Casual fan isn't a nonsense term at all. It's a term that exist in all of entertainment. A casual fan would be someone who engages in a fandom, but isn't consumed by it.
> 
> For instance I casually watch the NFL. I'll catch rival games for the Cincinnati Bengals and New York Giants, or if I'm with my dad watch a game. But my Sunday is consumed with making sure to watch as much football as possible. I can't tell you who's the top 5 Right Tackles in the league and shit like that. But I watch enough to know some of the top offensive skill players.


This is common sense. Well explained though. But “casual fans don’t exist” is just apologetics to defend not having more viewers.


----------



## RapShepard

The Wood said:


> This is common sense. Well explained though. But “casual fans don’t exist” is just apologetics to defend not having more viewers.


It really doesn't make sense as a stance in less you go all in with all media you consume.


----------



## The Wood

RapShepard said:


> It really doesn't make sense as a stance in less you go all in with all media you consume.


I guess I can imagine some people not getting that not everybody does this. It took me a while to realise that not only are there wrestling fans who don’t bother looking up stuff on the internet, but they actually actively don’t want to know the background stuff.


----------



## RapShepard

The Wood said:


> I guess I can imagine some people not getting that not everybody does this. It took me a while to realise that not only are there wrestling fans who don’t bother looking up stuff on the internet, but they actually actively don’t want to know the background stuff.


Once you get behind the curtain its hard to not think about what's going on behind it lol


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

RapShepard said:


> Once you get behind the curtain its hard to not think about what's going on behind it lol


Not really. I don't think about that shit at all when I'm watching wrestling. I actually allow myself to be a fan and not let the backstage shit effect my enjoyment.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> That's like saying fans of Stars that hater the prequels or hate the new movies and don't want to watch them anymore aren't Star Wars fans


Lapsed means no longer. Very few of these fans will be back. For a variety of reason aew should focus on creating new generation.



RapShepard said:


> Casual fan isn't a nonsense term at all. It's a term that exist in all of entertainment. A casual fan would be someone who engages in a fandom, but isn't consumed by it.
> 
> For instance I casually watch the NFL. I'll catch rival games for the Cincinnati Bengals and New York Giants, or if I'm with my dad watch a game. But my Sunday is consumed with making sure to watch as much football as possible. I can't tell you who's the top 5 Right Tackles in the league and shit like that. But I watch enough to know some of the top offensive skill players.


You've just given me an unscientific & ambiguous definition. What constitutes a casual fan?! How many hours do you need to watch before you become serious?! Every week? Every ppv? Every bit of content?
Highlights of dynamite are up before end of show so you can follow without even having cable.
Then you gotta put a number on the amount of casuals?!! DVR & streaming are ignored here every week but ppl want to strip back TV numbers to include only "hardcore's".

Whole thing is imprecise & ppl can make up whatever they like - just stick to facts & what we know


----------



## Danielallen1410

The Wood said:


> They went from 1.4 million to about 800k. That is almost half their audience. It is really that simple.


They hit 1.4 million once. 

Let’s be honest they’ve always done about 700-900k since about week 2 or 3.

Every new show gets more viewers.


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Lapsed means no longer. Very few of these fans will be back. For a variety of reason aew should focus on creating new generation.
> 
> 
> 
> *You've just given me an unscientific & ambiguous definition. What constitutes a casual fan?! How many hours do you need to watch before you become serious?! Every week? Every ppv? Every bit of content?*
> Highlights of dynamite are up before end of show so you can follow without even having cable.
> Then you gotta put a number on the amount of casuals?!! DVR & streaming are ignored here every week but ppl want to strip back TV numbers to include only "hardcore's".
> 
> Whole thing is imprecise & ppl can make up whatever they like - just stick to facts & what we know


No you're just playing willfully dumb right here, and you're not dumb. You know there's levels of fandom. To pretend all fans are the same in viewing and engagement habits is dishonest on your end. 

The fact of the matter is we know casual fans of things exist.


----------



## The Wood

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Not really. I don't think about that shit at all when I'm watching wrestling. I actually allow myself to be a fan and not let the backstage shit effect my enjoyment.


Your whole online personality is being a backstage fan. I don’t agree with anything you say, but you cannot argue that you’re very much into AEW and will defend anything they do? You’re definitely a hardcore fan



Pippen94 said:


> Lapsed means no longer. Very few of these fans will be back. For a variety of reason aew should focus on creating new generation.
> 
> 
> 
> You've just given me an unscientific & ambiguous definition. What constitutes a casual fan?! How many hours do you need to watch before you become serious?! Every week? Every ppv? Every bit of content?
> Highlights of dynamite are up before end of show so you can follow without even having cable.
> Then you gotta put a number on the amount of casuals?!! DVR & streaming are ignored here every week but ppl want to strip back TV numbers to include only "hardcore's".
> 
> Whole thing is imprecise & ppl can make up whatever they like - just stick to facts & what we know


Only glimmer of truth in here is that lapsed fans may be hard to get back. Everything else is a lie.

AEW are not creating new fans. They just aren’t. And it’s pretty clear what was meant by casual



Danielallen1410 said:


> They hit 1.4 million once.
> 
> Let’s be honest they’ve always done about 700-900k since about week 2 or 3.
> 
> Every new show gets more viewers.


Lol, every new show does not get new viewers.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

The Wood said:


> Your whole online personality is being a backstage fan. I don’t agree with anything you say, but you cannot argue that you’re very much into AEW and will defend anything they do? You’re definitely a hardcore fan.


And you're definitely full of shit lmao. I don't defend anything and everything they do. Some things I like and some things I don't like. Thing is I don't keep bitching and bitching and bitching about the things I don't like. I just take it for what is and focus on the things I do like. Odd concept I know. Wrestling is so much better when you actually LIKE it and don't just pretend to like it whilst shitting on it every chance you get.

And when the hell have I EVER acted like a backstage fan? You say I have weird takes but you...


----------



## ECFuckinW

Pretty sure JR just called omega the WWE champion lol


----------



## Klitschko

ECFuckinW said:


> Pretty sure JR just called omega the WWE champion lol


Highlight of Kenny's career.


----------



## bdon

Lmao


----------



## The Wood

It will never get that good for Kenny Omega.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Raw Smackdown said:


> And you're definitely full of shit lmao. I don't defend anything and everything they do. Some things I like and some things I don't like. Thing is I don't keep bitching and bitching and bitching about the things I don't like. I just take it for what is and focus on the things I do like. Odd concept I know. Wrestling is so much better when you actually LIKE it and don't just pretend to like it whilst shitting on it every chance you get.
> 
> And when the hell have I EVER acted like a backstage fan? You say I have weird takes but you...


Not to go too far off topic lol but what you say is true for life in general. Negativity breeds negativity, positivity breeds positivity. We can choose to concentrate on the bright side or the dark side and that affects our perception. We can also choose to switch off a tv show we don't enjoy!


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> Not to go too far off topic lol but what you say is true for life in general. Negativity breeds negativity, positivity breeds positivity. We can choose to concentrate on the bright side or the dark side and that affects our perception. We can also choose to switch off a tv show we don't enjoy!


Now that’s some bullshit. Both positivity and negativity have their place. You know what’s awesome? Honesty. Treating shit like it’s gold is not only annoying, but it’s counterproductive.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> Now that’s some bullshit. Both positivity and negativity have their place. You know what’s awesome? Honesty. Treating shit like it’s gold is not only annoying, but it’s counterproductive.


Honesty is important, for sure. That doesn't detract from what I said that perception is directly linked to mindset. Thoughts become things, especially the more compulsive they are. The more we concentrate on negativity the more negativity we perceive. It's a tough lesson but a transformative one!

Back on topic - no idea about tonight's ratings but I'll guess a pretty standard 800k & 0.30 demo.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

I hope they get 900k!


----------



## Prosper

Gonna guess 840K this week.


----------



## ProjectGargano

I will guess 780K this week.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Did anything weird happen in the news today?

any crisis?


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Did anything weird happen in the news today?
> 
> any crisis?


There is always something here whether the media overplays it or not. Right now it is power outages and freezing temps in Texas.


----------



## Pippen94

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Did anything weird happen in the news today?
> 
> any crisis?


Large part of country dealing with aftermath of storm


----------



## rbl85

Guys it's tomorrow for the ratings


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ok - storms are not like 'coup' level or 'impeachment' level

so, 900k / 0.36 seems do-able


----------



## Shock Street

Everytime I guess I end up being way too high. 750k.


----------



## .christopher.

The Raw Smackdown said:


> And you're definitely full of shit lmao. I don't defend anything and everything they do. Some things I like and some things I don't like. Thing is I don't keep bitching and bitching and bitching about the things I don't like. I just take it for what is and focus on the things I do like. Odd concept I know. Wrestling is so much better when you actually LIKE it and don't just pretend to like it whilst shitting on it every chance you get.
> 
> And when the hell have I EVER acted like a backstage fan? You say I have weird takes but you...


You're on a wrestling forum talking about ratings. Of course you're a "backstage fan".

& The only people who pretend to like wrestling are AEW fans because what they produce isn't wrestling. Not by a long shot.


----------



## ProjectGargano

.christopher. said:


> You're on a wrestling forum talking about ratings. Of course you're a "backstage fan".
> 
> & The only people who pretend to like wrestling are AEW fans because what they produce isn't wrestling. Not by a long shot.


What company is producing wrestling for you then? If you hate them so much why are you always here?


----------



## Claro De Luna

Two Sheds said:


> There is always something here whether the media overplays it or not. Right now it is power outages and freezing temps in Texas.


Your country is a shit hole. People would rather watch the news over real entertainment.


----------



## Aedubya

Guessing 0.81


----------



## RapShepard

Prediction

*Low* .01 demo 174k viewers

*High* 9.23 demo with 23.7 million viewers

Can't imagine it's not somewhere on that range.


----------



## The Wood

RapShepard said:


> Prediction
> 
> *Low* .01 demo 174k viewers
> 
> *High* 9.23 demo with 23.7 million viewers
> 
> Can't imagine it's not somewhere on that range.


I was going to make a similar joke.

6.27 demo with 11 million viewers if it weren’t for that damn news.


----------



## One Shed

Claro De Luna said:


> Your country is a shit hole. People would rather watch the news over real entertainment.


You said that before and I called you out on it with no reponse.. Insulting people for wanting to be informed vs drinking soda and consuming the bread and circuses is something only a child would say. Do you enjoy being ignorant of important things that go on in the world?


----------



## iarwain

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Did anything weird happen in the news today?


Rush Limbaugh died.


----------



## Shock Street

iarwain said:


> Rush Limbaugh died.


I feel like Texas being reverse-on-fire is a bit of a bigger deal


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Nothing in the news will match Trump TV. As long as Trump isn’t on the news AEW will have no excuses. Trump is the heel that McMahon has always dreamed about.


----------



## The Wood

TKO Wrestling said:


> Nothing in the news will match Trump TV. As long as Trump isn’t on the news AEW will have no excuses. Trump is the heel that McMahon has always dreamed about.


The principles of wrestling still work.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

.christopher. said:


> You're on a wrestling forum talking about ratings. Of course you're a "backstage fan".
> 
> *& The only people who pretend to like wrestling are AEW fans because what they produce isn't wrestling. Not by a long shot.*


What a crappy statement. Of course it's pro wrestling. Just because it's not what YOU want doesn't mean it's pro wrestling. let's fall back on the self importance please.


----------



## The Wood

The Raw Smackdown said:


> What a crappy statement. Of course it's pro wrestling. Just because it's not what YOU want doesn't mean it's pro wrestling. let's fall back on the self importance please.


It doesn’t even really try to follow the template of pro-wrestling. There was an intentionality behind pro-wrestling that has completely gone. Wrestlers who got into the business in the 20th centurybare unlikely to even be fans of modern day sports entertainment performance art.

It’s changing like roller derby. It would be like if you got into improv comedy because you like being on the spot and being funny. Then a bunch of people started running theatres and groups and turned it into rehearsed dramatic pieces and still called it “improv comedy.” It’s that different. It’s a different thing.


----------



## Mr316

747k last night for Dynamite. Not good at all.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Lol at people already grasping for the news as an excuse. Their viewership is what it is. I love NJPW but the general population doesnt care.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Mr316 said:


> 747k last night for Dynamite. Not good at all.


Half the US has been under an icy winter storm this week, millions of people without power, who knows how many stranded because of borked-up travel, I wouldn’t be surprised if everything took a hit this week.


----------



## Mr316

At this point AEW Dynamite isn’t even close of doing half of RAW’s viewership. And they spent millions of $ for Jericho, Mox, Sting...just terrible.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

The Wood said:


> It doesn’t even really try to follow the template of pro-wrestling.


The Template that YOU want to see. That's what you mean.


----------



## Mr316

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Half the US has been under an icy winter storm this week, millions of people without power, who knows how many stranded because of borked-up travel, I wouldn’t be surprised if everything took a hit this week.


Seems like they’re the only show that takes a hit from something every week. 😂


----------



## RainmakerV2

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Half the US has been under an icy winter storm this week, millions of people without power, who knows how many stranded because of borked-up travel, I wouldn’t be surprised if everything took a hit this week.


Lmao. Always an excuse. They advertised Moxley, Sting, The Young bucks and Inner Circle in a title match, Rihos return, and still can barely beat lameXT. Lmao. Cmon bro.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Half the US has been under an icy winter storm this week, millions of people without power, who knows how many stranded because of borked-up travel, I wouldn’t be surprised if everything took a hit this week.


And this is a legit reason for the ratings being what they are but you know people are going to just ignore this and say it's an "Excuse" and AEW should've done better regardless of what's going on.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW: 747,000 viewers, 0.31 rating (A18-49)
NXT: 713,000 viewers, 0.16 rating (A18-49)

via PWTorch

Both shows up from last week in both total viewership and key demo.


----------



## Prosper

@Mr316 you're a fuckin clown worse than the Australians ever were. I'd happily trade you for Chip.


----------



## RainmakerV2

The Raw Smackdown said:


> And this is a legit reason for the ratings being what they are but you know people are going to just ignore this and say it's an "Excuse" and AEW should've done better regardless of what's going on.


Theres an excuse for them EVERY WEEK. YES, the world moves. There are storms, news events, sports. What is the point of this thread if every week a bad number just doesnt count because something happened in the world?


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Mr316 said:


> 747k last night for Dynamite. Not good at all.


Pretty Decent Number IMO. It'll do better like it always does.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

RainmakerV2 said:


> Theres an excuse for them EVERY WEEK. YES, the world moves. There are storms, news events, sports. What is the point of this thread if every week a bad number just doesnt count because something happened in the world?


Except there isn't an excuse EVERY WEEK. You're exaggerating and you need to stop it. 

And shit. Even still they do decent ratings wise despite the happenings of the world so I really don't know what the bitching is about.


----------



## The Wood

RainmakerV2 said:


> Lol at people already grasping for the news as an excuse. Their viewership is what it is. I love NJPW but the general population doesnt care.


It really does the mark the difference between a hardcore fan’s thinking and a casual fan’s. And I fall into this too, because I love a lot of the New Japan guys and think they _could_ be built up into stars. But then I step back and think about it:

Even if you love film, how many Japanese directors and actors can you name? How many producers? Even if you love music, how many Japanese rock bands can you name? How many pop-stars? How many Japanese Olympic gold medalists can you name?

There’s going to be a cultural barrier there that’s going to be hard to cross even with careful explanation and build. Anyone who thinks it is as easy as having KENTA show up to kick Moxley is out of their mind.



Reggie Dunlop said:


> Half the US has been under an icy winter storm this week, millions of people without power, who knows how many stranded because of borked-up travel, I wouldn’t be surprised if everything took a hit this week.


I was legitimately going to make the joke “They’ll get about 750k but it would have been 11 million if it weren’t for the news and snow,” but Rap made a better one and this is like that joke but sincere.

This is about what they usually get. This is the norm. First, they exist in the real world. Excuses are just excuses. But second — this is totally within their usual range. Without looking I can tell you that NXT probably did about 560k. Because 1.3 million is usually what these shows on Wednesday do. If it was a stellar week, NXT would probably be topping out at 700k.

This is normal.


----------



## Mr316

747k is now considered a good number for the AEW marks. Soon they’ll be at 500k and they’ll still find excuses. 😂


----------



## RainmakerV2

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Except there isn't an excuse EVERY WEEK. You're exaggerating and you need to stop it.
> 
> And shit. Even still they do decent ratings wise despite the happenings of the world so I really don't know what the bitching is about.



Whos bitching? Their ratings are fine. TNT seems fine with them. They have a nice demo. But people are orgasmining in their pants like this forbidden door stuff is gonna change the business and AEW is gonna be right on Vinces heels and the numbers dont suggest that at all.


----------



## The Wood

Mr316 said:


> 747k is now considered a good number for the AEW marks. Soon they’ll be at 500k and they’ll still find excuses. 😂


There’s already the built-in bullshit Meltzer gave them that 500k is what TNT were “expecting.” We don’t know much else behind that number besides Dave justifying it with some weird B/R Live bullshit, but that is the prepared defence.

I was wrong, by the way. This was a VERY strong Wednesday. It turns out people being snowed in means they get to watch MORE TV. Funny that.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ugh, lower than expected

oh well


----------



## The Wood

The Raw Smackdown said:


> The Template that YOU want to see. That's what you mean.


No, they are different things. If you’re a fan of boxing and they replace the boxing with ballet, you are now watching ballet, not boxing.


----------



## RainmakerV2

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Except there isn't an excuse EVERY WEEK. You're exaggerating and you need to stop it.
> 
> And shit. Even still they do decent ratings wise despite the happenings of the world so I really don't know what the bitching is about.


Couldn't i just flip it and say that the storms had everyone inside and even more people were at home with nothing to do except watch TV?


----------



## Prosper

747K is decent. All goodie. Life moves on.


----------



## holy

RainmakerV2 said:


> Theres an excuse for them EVERY WEEK. YES, the world moves. There are storms, news events, sports. What is the point of this thread if every week a bad number just doesnt count because something happened in the world?


THIS. THANK YOU!


----------



## 3venflow

RainmakerV2 said:


> Whos bitching? Their ratings are fine. TNT seems fine with them. They have a nice demo. But people are orgasmining in their pants like this forbidden door stuff is gonna change the business and AEW is gonna be *right on Vinces heels* and the numbers dont suggest that at all.


How many people actually say this? This is one of those things where someone picks one or two comments out of a hundred and magnifies it to make it sound like everyone thinks that. Almost no one besides a few trolls on social media thinks AEW is actually competing with WWE's top two shows. The only logical argument for that is for AEW to hold steady and see if RAW continues its yearly drop, eventuating in the two being closer to each other.

There are some very insecure people on this forum (not you) who have grown up with nothing but McMahon wrestling who view anything to it as a threat and are projecting their hope AEW dies on to the forum in the form of ultra-aggressive behaviour and in some cases (see @Mr316 latest comment), flat out baiting/trolling that doesn't invite any reasoned discussion.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

RainmakerV2 said:


> Whos bitching? Their ratings are fine. TNT seems fine with them. They have a nice demo. But people are orgasmining in their pants like this forbidden door stuff is gonna change the business and AEW is gonna be right on Vinces heels and the numbers dont suggest that at all.


Well...you. You were just talking about excuses supposedly being made every week..

And I don't think anyone thinks that this whole partnership thing is gonna change the world/business or anything. At this point anyone thinks that AEW or any other wrestling comapny is gonna topple WWE is just delusional as all hell and is not living in reality. They're bulletproof from any shots of any other company out there and it's gonna stay that way. I just think this is something that people are excited for and are willing to see how this all plays out regardless of the ratings.


----------



## Dr. Middy

RainmakerV2 said:


> Whos bitching? Their ratings are fine. TNT seems fine with them. They have a nice demo. But people are orgasmining in their pants like this forbidden door stuff is gonna change the business and AEW is gonna be right on Vinces heels and the numbers dont suggest that at all.


Eh. anybody doing that is wearing a big pair of rose colored glasses, and even then I don't see most people doing that anyway.

I may be orgasming thinking about what could happen if the forbidden door opens because of all the dream type matches we could get out of this, so it's really just the wrestling fan in me getting all hyped up over my personal enjoyment of things.

But as long as their numbers stay steady, which they seem to be for awhile now, and TNT is happy with things, I don't really worry about that aspect. It's funny here that there is even this much discussion to me about the shows ratings when they don't seem to be changing all that much.


----------



## Prosper

RainmakerV2 said:


> Whos bitching? Their ratings are fine. TNT seems fine with them. They have a nice demo. But people are orgasmining in their pants like this forbidden door stuff is gonna change the business and AEW is gonna be right on Vinces heels and the numbers dont suggest that at all.


I think the people who are "orgasming in their pants" are just enjoying the show and happy to be pro wrestling fans. Remember that most don't even care about the numbers whether they're good or bad. You're the one over-reacting.


----------



## RainmakerV2

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Well...you. You were just talking about excuses supposedly being made every week..
> 
> And I don't think anyone thinks that this whole partnership thing is gonna change the world/business or anything. At this point anyone thinks that AEW or any other wrestling comapny is gonna topple WWE is just delusional as all hell and is not living in reality. They're bulletproof from any shots of any other company out there and it's gonna stay that way. I just think this is something that people are excited for and are willing to see how this all plays out regardless of the ratings.


I never said topple. The fact is since KENTA showed, the 2 shows after have done mediocre numbers (at best), with a LOT of their top guys advertised. Hey, im a wrestling fanboy, im on an internet forum. If Okada or Jay White showed up next week and dropped Omega, Id pop like a mf. But im also aware its not gonna draw shit or really help AEWs business long term.


----------



## Mike E

Decent number this week millions of people across the country have no power, so that probably affected ratings a little. The main thing to note is they still got a strong demo number.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Looks like the avg rating is going down this year. Seems to be nowhere near 900k these days and it is a big plus getting over 800k.

I think the fans are leaving slowly and AEW really needs something to being them back up to 900k range consistency. I'm not talking Okada or Ibushi as no one knows who those dudes are.

Give Brock a call!


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

RainmakerV2 said:


> I never said topple. The fact is since KENTA showed, the 2 shows after have done mediocre numbers (at best), with a LOT of their top guys advertised. Hey, im a wrestling fanboy, im on an internet forum. If Okada or Jay White showed up next week and dropped Omega, Id pop like a mf. But im also aware its not gonna draw shit or really help AEWs business long term.


I never said you did say topple. I wasn't even talking about you when I said that. 

And that's fine. But as been demonstrated there are people who aren't thinking about the ratings when it comes to that. People are excited that 2 wrestling companies with so much talent in them are joining forces and all the dream matches that could potentially happen and that's all it is. Not everyone is thinking business with every move AEW makes.


----------



## Mr316

Dark Emperor said:


> Looks like the avg rating is going down this year. Seems to be nowhere near 900k these days and it is a big plus getting over 800k.
> 
> I think the fans are leaving slowly and AEW really needs something to being them back up to 900k range consistency. I'm not talking Okada or Ibushi as no one knows who those dudes are.
> 
> Give Brock a call!


They brought Sting in and it didn’t change a thing. Hell, they could bring Stone Cold in and it wouldn’t change a thing. They don’t know how to write a show. Unless you’re a HUGE wrestling fan, it’s a very confusing show. On top of that, it’s not a very exciting show. Many of the talents are lame and shouldn’t be on TV. It hurts the entire show.


----------



## qntntgood

3venflow said:


> AEW: 747,000 viewers, 0.31 rating (A18-49)
> NXT: 713,000 viewers, 0.16 rating (A18-49)
> 
> via PWTorch
> 
> Both shows up from last week in both total viewership and key demo.


Wow,last week when bischoff said aew has flatlined it looks like he was right.because this number is very identical to last week's number,with nxt gaining in viewership.


----------



## One Shed

People actually saying this is a good rating two weeks out from a PPV. Get the goofs off TV. No more Trashidy, no more Luther, no more Marko, no more Jelly. Empty the trash can and put a new liner in. It is time to bring someone in who knows how to produce and lay out a television show.


----------



## ProjectGargano

It could have been better but the storms in US probably helped it. Next week could be a really low rating if they don´t announce a proper main event. The card looks awful.


----------



## TheFiend666

AWE Marks are funny. Always got excuses


----------



## Cube2

you can't blame the rating on the weather. didn't The Rock new show get 5 million ppl to watch, and that was on tuesday.


----------



## La Parka

La Parka said:


> Unfortunately the weather is happening on Wednesday, so AEW is likely to see a decline in ratings this week as everyone will be watching the weather channels.


----------



## rbl85

It's quite incredible the gap in the demo in comparison with the number of viewers


----------



## Cube2

can you give me the numbers for the lottery @La Parka


----------



## RapShepard

I was right in my prediction, hooray me


----------



## rbl85

When you look at the viewers of NXT last week + their demo and you compare to the ratings of this week you can observe 1 thing :

A lot of 50+ watched NXT this week.

Also for those saying "it's terrible and the PPV is in 2 weeks" 

Since the creation of Dynamite, the "PPV effect" always happen for the go home show but mostly for the show after the PPV. It's always the show after the ppv who have the biggest bump in viewers.


----------



## sideon

People saying TNT are happy with the ratings really don't understand why Tony is bringing in celebrities, nostalgia acts, and cross promoting. He's doing all of this because it's time for the ratings to improve, because coasting at 800k is no longer acceptable and if they ever want to be seen as a legit contender they're going to have to start averaging 1mil at some point. Also stop blaming the weather because it's not like a good portion of the people who lost power were AEW fans.


----------



## USAUSA1

sideon said:


> People saying TNT are happy with the ratings really don't understand why Tony is bringing in celebrities, nostalgia acts, and cross promoting. He's doing all of this because it's time for the ratings to improve, because coasting at 800k is no longer acceptable and if they ever want to be seen as a legit contender they're going to have to start averaging 1mil at some point. Also stop blaming the weather because it's not like a good portion of the people who lost power were AEW fans.


Every week they have an excuse.


----------



## sideon

USAUSA1 said:


> Every week they have an excuse.





The Raw Smackdown said:


> And this is a legit reason for the ratings being what they are but you know people are going to just ignore this and say it's an "Excuse" and AEW should've done better regardless of what's going on.


At this point AEW is basically in the "if nothing else is on i'll watch it" category.


----------



## SPCDRI

ProjectGargano said:


> It could have been better but the storms in US probably helped it. Next week could be a really low rating if they don´t announce a proper main event. The card looks awful.


Storms that were preoccupying people and possibly making it impossible to watch television helped ratings?


----------



## Klitschko

I know its not fair to blame one specific wrestler, but Damn, the ratings have been going down the crapper since Kenny Omega became champion and they started this whole multi company invasion storyline.


----------



## Mr316

Klitschko said:


> I know its not fair to blame on specific wrestler, but Damn, the ratings have been going down the crapper since Kenny Omega became champion and they started this whole multi company invasion storyline.


Not Omega’s fault at all. The guy is incredibly talented. They just don’t know how to write a show. Since Jericho lost the belt, they haven’t managed to properly put the focus on their champion. The show is just all over the place. Imagine you never really watched wrestling and you decide to give it a shot on a random Wednesday...there’s no way you give it more than 5 minutes.


----------



## spiderguy252000

sideon said:


> People saying TNT are happy with the ratings really don't understand why Tony is bringing in celebrities, nostalgia acts, and cross promoting. He's doing all of this because it's time for the ratings to improve, because coasting at 800k is no longer acceptable and if they ever want to be seen as a legit contender they're going to have to start averaging 1mil at some point. Also stop blaming the weather because it's not like a good portion of the people who lost power were AEW fans.



Yes and no, I personally don’t think the number was hit hard because of the weather BUT I’m also not counting it off. Our state is BIG and at least 4 of my regular dynamite watching friends had 0 power last night. I’m at my GFs parents house because they still have electricity so I got to watch. 

All that to say, don’t underestimate how many people in TX have no power (or water for that matter). Again, not saying the number is low because of weather, but I’m also not counting out the possibility.


----------



## Pippen94

sideon said:


> People saying TNT are happy with the ratings really don't understand why Tony is bringing in celebrities, nostalgia acts, and cross promoting. He's doing all of this because it's time for the ratings to improve, because coasting at 800k is no longer acceptable and if they ever want to be seen as a legit contender they're going to have to start averaging 1mil at some point. Also stop blaming the weather because it's not like a good portion of the people who lost power were AEW fans.


You're right; all those things are to boost ratings. 
Talk about network not being happy or target being 1 million total is just bullshit you made up though.


----------



## Klitschko

Mr316 said:


> Not Omega’s fault at all. The guy is incredibly talented. They just don’t know how to write a show. Since Jericho lost the belt, they haven’t managed to properly put the focus on their champion. The show is just all over the place. Imagine you never really watched wrestling and you decide to give it a shot on a random Wednesday...there’s no way you give it more than 5 minutes.


Oh I know Kenny is solid, but I just got to bust a certain Kenny Omega fan's balls that always tried to say that Cody was killing the ratings.


----------



## Pippen94

0.31 is good demo - I wonder what ranking it did for night??


----------



## Mr316

Klitschko said:


> Oh I know Kenny is solid, but I just got to bust a certain Kenny Omega fan's balls that always tried to say that Cody was killing the ratings.


It’s not one talent that’s killing the ratings. It’s quite simply because the show isn’t entertaining enough.


----------



## qntntgood

Two Sheds said:


> People actually saying this is a good rating two weeks out from a PPV. Get the goofs off TV. No more Trashidy, no more Luther, no more Marko, no more Jelly. Empty the trash can and put a new liner in. It is time to bring someone in who knows how to produce and lay out a television show.


Damn straight,because this is horrible even Dave meltzer is starting to turn on aew.and khan has no room to call out anybody,whenhis body work is this bad.


----------



## One Shed

qntntgood said:


> Damn straight,because this is horrible even Dave meltzer is starting to turn on aew.and khan has no room to call out anybody,whenhis body work is this bad.


No way Uncle Dave turns on them unless the checks stop product really gets bad.


----------



## ProjectGargano

SPCDRI said:


> Storms that were preoccupying people and possibly making it impossible to watch television helped ratings?


Probably was one of the causes of the bad rating lol


----------



## ProjectGargano

USAUSA1 said:


> Every week they have an excuse.


Well, how is your NXT and MLW doing?


----------



## DammitChrist

Two Sheds said:


> Great post.


I don’t see anything “great” about that post tbh.


----------



## rbl85

qntntgood said:


> Damn straight,because this is horrible *even Dave meltzer is starting to turn on aew*.and khan has no room to call out anybody,whenhis body work is this bad.


Why some of you have to lie ?


----------



## Cube2

No way Dynamite Dave will turn on AEW.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> I don’t see anything “great” about that post tbh.


OK? Well you do not have to think it is great to understand that it is accurate. The more WWE lite goofy stuff they do, the less people there are who are going to be wanting to tune in. Why settle for the dollar store version of WWE goofiness when you can get the real thing? A nonstop parade of goofs has been causing people to stop being wrestling fans for well over a decade now. Just because Tony's clown car has a fresh coat of paint on it, does not make it any less of a clown car underneath. Get the goofs off the air and focus on making stars.


----------



## rbl85

Two Sheds said:


> OK? Well you do not have to think it is great to understand that it is accurate. The more WWE lite goofy stuff they do, the less people there are who are going to be wanting to tune in. Why settle for the dollar store version of WWE goofiness when you can get the real thing? A nonstop parade of goofs has been causing people to stop being wrestling fans for well over a decade now. Just because Tony's clown car has a fresh coat of paint on it, does not make it any less of a clown car underneath. Get the goofs off the air and focus on making stars.


What was goofy about last episode ?


----------



## qntntgood

rbl85 said:


> Why some of you have to lie ?


Lie,have you heard his recent show.they is not even cover up,the fact that aew's numbers have dropped


----------



## DammitChrist

Mr316 said:


> You deserve to be banned for stupid post like this. Why do you think the Superbowl or a Mcgregor fight is watched by so many people compared to other football games or other UFC events? That’s what you call casuals.


You deserve to be banned for threatening a *better* poster to be canned for supporting a company that he/she enjoys while you’re still on here whining and complaining with this WOAT gimmick of yours.


----------



## rbl85

qntntgood said:


> Lie,have you heard his recent show.*they is not even cover up,the fact that aew's numbers have dropped*


But he never covered up anything so i don't understand what you want to accomplish....

And observing that a number is smaller than an other is not turning on AEW.

I mean every people in the world will tell you that WWE numbers are decreasing every year but that doesn't mean that they're turning on the WWE


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> What was goofy about last episode ?


Last night? Are you kidding?


----------



## rbl85

Two Sheds said:


> Last night? Are you kidding?


What was goofy ?


----------



## Mr316

rbl85 said:


> What was goofy ?


The entire damn show is goofy and has been goofy for months.


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> What was goofy ?


Well in the first segment we had two neon skeletons botching moves followed by a supposed grown man in the Jaguars' mascot costume, then the putty patrol come out acting like a bunch of goofs. Going to skip Riho this time since the match was at least good. Then we had Luther vs Trashidy in a battle of the goofs that was thankfully short. Later the middle school gymnasts did a routine without telling a story, no selling big moves as always. I think we had a shot of Dory Funk Jr.'s wife asleep in the crowd. Then we had the masked dinosaur get a new mask and the return of another small child.

You going to tell me Luther vs Trashidy was something other than goofy, childish, Vince on his worst day trash?


----------



## rbl85

Also qntntgood last year 3 weeks before Revolution this was the rating :

AEW : 817K, 0.30 in 18/49
NXT : 757K, 0.24 in 18/49

So yes this week show in comparison with last year had less viewers but it also had a better demo

Now last year, the show right after this one did close to 900K (893K) and 0.31 in 18/49.

Do i think next week show is going to see a big increase ? Nope, i'm not even sure the rating is going to be better.

The observation that we can make tho is that AEW lost a good amount of old viewers but gain a bit of young viewers.


----------



## rbl85

Two Sheds said:


> Well in the first segment we had two neon skeletons botching moves followed by a supposed grown man in the Jaguars' mascot costume, then the putty patrol come out acting like a bunch of goofs. Going to skip Riho this time since the match was at least good. Then we had Luther vs Trashidy in a battle of the goofs that was thankfully short. Later the middle school gymnasts did a routine without telling a story, no selling big moves as always. I think we had a shot of Dory Funk Jr.'s wife asleep in the crowd. Then we had the masked dinosaur get a new mask and the return of another small child.
> 
> You going to tell me Luther vs Trashidy was something other than goofy, childish, Vince on his worst day trash?


Wait wait so botching a move is goofing ?


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> Wait wait so botching a move is goofing ?


If you look like a goof but you at least pull off a great match, you at least have that going for you.


----------



## qntntgood

rbl85 said:


> But he never covered up anything so i don't understand what you want to accomplish....
> 
> And observing that a number is smaller than an other is not turning on AEW.
> 
> I mean every people in the world will tell you that WWE numbers are decreasing every year but that doesn't mean that they're turning on the WWE


He did a lot of covering up for aew,and that thing are falling apart at moment.so he has no other choice, then to report the fact that aew's numbers are falling and it's the same viewers every week.and just wait for the day nxt pulls ahead.


----------



## rbl85

qntntgood said:


> He did a lot of covering up for aew,and that thing are falling apart at moment.so he has no other choice, then to report the fact that aew's numbers are falling and it's the same viewers every week.*and just wait for the day nxt pulls ahead.*


NXT already did it in the past so ?


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Mr316 said:


> The entire damn show is goofy and has been goofy for months.


Lies.


----------



## qntntgood

rbl85 said:


> Also qntntgood last year 3 weeks before Revolution this was the rating :
> 
> AEW : 817K, 0.30 in 18/49
> NXT : 757K, 0.24 in 18/49
> 
> So yes this week show in comparison with last year had less viewers but it also had a better demo
> 
> Now last year, the show right after this one did close to 900K (893K) and 0.31 in 18/49.
> 
> Do i think next week show is going to see a big increase ? Nope, i'm not even sure the rating is going to be better.
> 
> The observation that we can make tho is that AEW lost a good amount of old viewers but gain a bit of young viewers.


Do you want to talk about the number for fighter fest and fight for the fallen, vs the great American bash.or the week leading up to those events,when nxt was beating aew and jericho had to do some damage control.


----------



## qntntgood

rbl85 said:


> NXT already did it in the past so ?


It can happen again,and they are on the verge of it happening again.


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> Lmao. Always an excuse. They advertised Moxley, Sting, The Young bucks and Inner Circle in a title match, Rihos return, and still can barely beat lameXT. Lmao. Cmon bro.


It’s funny how the show isn’t even close to dying anyway (as much as bitter folks like yourself seem to be celebrating for some pathetic reason) 😂


----------



## ProjectGargano

qntntgood said:


> It can happen again,and they are on the verge of it happening again.


Are you talking about the show that did 550k last week? Or am i misunderstanding?


----------



## rbl85

qntntgood said:


> Do you want to talk about the number for fighter fest and fight for the fallen, vs the great American bash.or the week leading up to those events,when nxt was beating aew and jericho had to do some damage control.


I have a hard time following you dude


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Two Sheds said:


> Well in the first segment we had two neon skeletons botching moves followed by a supposed grown man in the Jaguars' mascot costume, then the putty patrol come out acting like a bunch of goofs. Going to skip Riho this time since the match was at least good. Then we had Luther vs Trashidy in a battle of the goofs that was thankfully short. Later the middle school gymnasts did a routine without telling a story, no selling big moves as always. I think we had a shot of Dory Funk Jr.'s wife asleep in the crowd. Then we had the masked dinosaur get a new mask and the return of another small child.
> 
> You going to tell me Luther vs Trashidy was something other than goofy, childish, Vince on his worst day trash?


So basically things you don't like you consider Goofy. Gotcha.


----------



## rbl85

The Raw Smackdown said:


> So basically things you don't like you consider Goofy. Gotcha.


Why does he have to be so goofy ?


----------



## One Shed

The Raw Smackdown said:


> So basically things you don't like you consider Goofy. Gotcha.


No, I consider goofy stuff to be goofy. Some people like goofy stuff, and my argument is well, you have had a significant part of WWE programming for that for over a decade. Why not just watch that?


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> Why does he have to be so goofy ?


Incredible counter argument!


----------



## rbl85

Two Sheds said:


> Incredible counter argument!


Relax dude we are just goofing around


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> It’s funny how the show isn’t even close to dying anyway (as much as bitter folks like yourself seem to be celebrating for some pathetic reason) 😂


Jesus Christ how many times do we have to say that nobody is celebrating the low numbers, we're saying they aren't good enough.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Went in here to see if people were making excuses for the low ratings, was not disappointed.


----------



## rbl85

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Went in here to see if people were making excuses for the low ratings, was not disappointed.


I don't see for this week a valid excuse but i don't understand le "low rating" comments.

750 is not low, it's average for AEW.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

rbl85 said:


> I don't see for this week a valid excuse but i don't understand le "low rating" comments.
> 
> 750 is not low, it's average for AEW.


It is average but they should be doing a lot better


----------



## rbl85

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> It is average but they should be doing a lot better


I agree with you on that but i think that on this topic it's hard to find objective comments it's either too negative or too positive.

If someone say this week wasn't bad but it's wasn't good either then i have to agree but i can't agree with the people saying that it's terrible or that it is very good.

If i had to grade it, it would be a 13 out of 20. Not bad but still missing that little something for it to be a good 16 out 20


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Jesus Christ how many times do we have to say that nobody is celebrating the low numbers, we're saying they aren't good enough.


They’re good enough to still be alive


----------



## qntntgood

ProjectGargano said:


> Are you talking about the show that did 550k last week? Or am i misunderstanding?


Let's stick with this week with for right now,because nxt is growing.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> They’re good enough to still be alive


I mean, just surviving on average ratings probably isn't the best thing business wise. You'd be wanting to increase that viewership would you not?


----------



## CM Buck

Mr316 said:


> 747k is now considered a good number for the AEW marks. Soon they’ll be at 500k and they’ll still find excuses. 😂


Stop Baiting


----------



## The Wood

It’ll be interesting to see if Dave goes down with the ship. Them losing viewers would be a good chance to step back and a bit more objective.

I don’t know how people can look at a show that has Orange Cassidy, Luther, Marko Stunt and a kid leading a stable and deny that it is goofy. Liking it is one thing, but it’s definitely goofy.


----------



## One Shed

The Wood said:


> It’ll be interesting to see if Dave goes down with the ship. Them losing viewers would be a good chance to step back and a bit more objective.
> 
> I don’t know how people can look at a show that has Orange Cassidy, Luther, Marko Stunt and a kid leading a stable and deny that it is goofy. Liking it is one thing, but it’s definitely goofy.


Seriously. Someone asking me to name one thing about last night's show that was goofy has to count as trolling or bait or something right?

I did hear Uncle Dave said something about not liking it so I had to check it out. He did say he did not like the idea of the exploding barbed wire match. The first crack in the clown wall.


----------



## Pippen94

Shows that are in between the heavily promoted ones always bring out the naysayers.
0.31 is the average for last year which is good for down show.
When ratings come out probably top ten & beating NBA games. So yeah, doom & gloom


----------



## bdon

Shock Street said:


> I feel like Texas being reverse-on-fire is a bit of a bigger deal


I mean, it’s as close to hell freezing over as we get. Hah


Two Sheds said:


> People actually saying this is a good rating two weeks out from a PPV. Get the goofs off TV. No more Trashidy, no more Luther, no more Marko, no more Jelly. Empty the trash can and put a new liner in. It is time to bring someone in who knows how to produce and lay out a television show.


Whoever books this shit is fucking stupid. Why is Luther, Cassidy, and Brodie Jr on your television show 2 weeks out from a PPV that you’re trying to sell to fans at $50 a pop? That shit has no storyline continuity to build up said PPV.

This company desperately needs to learn to tell 4-5 stories between each PPV that allows them to basically use a Hollywood storyboarding-like technique to keep the show engaging. 


Klitschko said:


> Oh I know Kenny is solid, but I just got to bust a certain Kenny Omega fan's balls that always tried to say that Cody was killing the ratings.


More trolling from you, but I am glad to see that you’re such a huge fan of mine, kid. I assure you, though, I am no one special. My opinion shouldn’t ruffle your feathers this much.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Not surprised at all to see this rating. Those people must have been like me and turned off moment Orange Cassidy appeared. Trash wrestlers = trash ratings.

Its been quite a hilarious past few months here. Seeing the Prosperous "expert's" predictions fall all the way from "1.4 million for the anniversary episode" to 840 K and yet Dynamite still underperforms that.

The downward trend is becoming more and more evident. The highs are getting lower and lower and what used to be considered a poor rating months ago, is now "a great rating".. Given the way things are going, I would not be surprised to see Dynamite hit the 500 K range in the coming months.

I already know that the episode with Shaq is going to be met with a litany of excuses.


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> Seriously. Someone asking me to name one thing about last night's show that was goofy has to count as trolling or bait or something right?
> 
> I did hear Uncle Dave said something about not liking it so I had to check it out. He did say he did not like the idea of the exploding barbed wire match. The first crack in the clown wall.


Luther, Cassidy, and Brodie Jr just fucking killed the show for me. Hangman being rescued by Dark Order was a great visual and such a good storytelling moment, then Brodie Jr has to make an appearance and it goes straight to goofy shit.

I’d love to see how great this company would be without the goofy.


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> I mean, it’s as close to hell freezing over as we get. Hah
> 
> Whoever books this shit is fucking stupid. Why is Luther, Cassidy, and Brodie Jr on your television show 2 weeks out from a PPV that you’re trying to sell to fans at $50 a pop? That shit has no storyline continuity to build up said PPV.
> 
> This company desperately needs to learn to tell 4-5 stories between each PPV that allows them to basically use a Hollywood storyboarding-like technique to keep the show engaging.
> 
> More trolling from you, but I am glad to see that you’re such a huge fan of mine, kid. I assure you, though, I am no one special. My opinion shouldn’t ruffle your feathers this much.


Slipped in Cassidy who has long been a ratings draw


----------



## NathanMayberry

Pippen94 said:


> Slipped in Cassidy who has long been a ratings draw


Wasn't the lowest watched Dynamite match so far a Jericho vs Cassidy match?.


----------



## Pippen94

NathanMayberry said:


> Not surprised at all to see this rating. Those people must have been like me and turned off moment Orange Cassidy appeared. Trash wrestlers = trash ratings.
> 
> Its been quite a hilarious past few months here. Seeing the Prosperous "expert's" predictions fall all the way from "1.4 million for the anniversary episode" to 840 K and yet Dynamite still underperforms that.
> 
> The downward trend is becoming more and more evident. The highs are getting lower and lower and what used to be considered a poor rating months ago, is now "a great rating".. Given the way things are going, I would not be surprised to see Dynamite hit the 500 K range in the coming months.
> 
> I already know that the episode with Shaq is going to be met with a litany of excuses.


You hit all the baiting bullet points; 1.4 million debut, Trash Cassidy, 500k, News excuses.


----------



## Pippen94

NathanMayberry said:


> Wasn't the lowest watched Dynamite match so far a Jericho vs Cassidy match?.


Wedding segment was highest rated segment for recent show which did 850k a week or two after @bdon said they'd driven off 850k for good


----------



## The Wood

Two Sheds said:


> Seriously. Someone asking me to name one thing about last night's show that was goofy has to count as trolling or bait or something right?
> 
> I did hear Uncle Dave said something about not liking it so I had to check it out. He did say he did not like the idea of the exploding barbed wire match. The first crack in the clown wall.


Haha, I’ll have to take back a lot of the things I’ve had to say about Dave if he manages to distance himself from the AEW train effectively. 



Pippen94 said:


> Slipped in Cassidy who has long been a ratings draw


Lol, no one in AEW is “drawing.”



Pippen94 said:


> Wedding segment was highest rated segment for recent show which did 850k a week or two after @bdon said they'd driven off 850k for good


I read bdon’s posts pretty thoroughly because they’re good content. I don’t recall him ever saying that.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> I read bdon’s posts pretty thoroughly because they’re good content. I don’t recall him ever saying that.


I literally never said that. I even said I enjoyed the wedding segment, because I got a chance to watch it through the virgin eyes of my wife witnessing her first wrestling wedding. “Oh my God. Look at what she’s wearing! Listen to his vows!? Wtf kind of minister is that? (I replied “a very Sinister one” heh) This isn’t really their wedding, is it?”

She made the segment fully enjoyable, but I assure you I never said anything about running 850k off. That’s just more of Pippen attributing made up quotes to someone.


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> I literally never said that. I even said I enjoyed the wedding segment, because I got a chance to watch it through the virgin eyes of my wife witnessing her first wrestling wedding. “Oh my God. Look at what she’s wearing! Listen to his vows!? Wtf kind of minister is that? (I replied “a very Sinister one” heh) This isn’t really their wedding, is it?”
> 
> She made the segment fully enjoyable, but I assure you I never said anything about running 850k off. That’s just more of Pippen attributing made up quotes to someone.


That’s right. I remember that. I remember you saying that a bad show would hurt the ratings the following week. It turned out you were right. You didn’t say anything about it being permanent though.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Pippen94 said:


> You hit all the baiting bullet points; 1.4 million debut, Trash Cassidy, 500k, News excuses.


Is your purpose here to not address what people are saying, and make up shit that they're not? You do that on so many posts. 

Did I say any lies?


----------



## NathanMayberry

Pippen94 said:


> Wedding segment was highest rated segment for recent show which did 850k a week or two after @bdon said they'd driven off 850k for good


Was Orange Cassidy the centerpiece of that segment? If you go to a wedding, are you doing it for the people getting married or for the guy you didn't even know was going to be in it? So its absurd that the viewership is being attributed to him. The fact that you bring this up and can't even answer my question is telling.

So I'm going to ask you again pip.

Was the Jericho vs Orange Cassidy match last summer not one of the least watched matches in Dynamite's history? I expect a Yes, or a No with proof of a match on Dynamite that had less viewers.

Its absurd how people will conflate the things they like and are familiar with, with what is popular. Calling Orange Cassidy any kind of draw is as delusional as the WWE fans calling Bad Bunny a nobody.


----------



## thorn123

It was a good show (not as good as previous weeks but still well worth watching). It just doesn’t appeal to wider audiences. Wrestling in general doesn’t. WWE only rates higher because it holds onto part of its loyal audience.


----------



## The Wood

DaveRA said:


> It was a good show (not as good as previous weeks but still well worth watching). It just doesn’t appeal to wider audiences. Wrestling in general doesn’t. WWE only rates higher because it holds onto part of its loyal audience.


Or people who actually like SmackDown or somehow like Raw.

Also, I don’t even know how people know when Orange Cassidy is on when they’re not watching the show. The days of people paying that sort of attention are over. I think OC’s “spikes” (if you can call them that) would have to be a combination of luck, show placement or even people stopping when they flick to have a laugh at the stupid wrestling (they don’t stick around).


----------



## CM Buck

@Klitschko Don't openly say your out to mess with posters. I know you probably don't mean harm by it but don't be that guy.

Also enough with the doom and gloom about AEW. When they actually start having major issues then you'll have merrit.

They're not dying they are just woefully stagnant, they need to be hitting the millions regularly and never anything under a million, they cannot afford to be getting the numbers they do now in the long run.


----------



## Pippen94

Firefromthegods said:


> @Klitschko Don't openly say your out to mess with posters. I know you probably don't mean harm by it but don't be that guy.
> 
> Also enough with the doom and gloom about AEW. When they actually start having major issues then you'll have merrit.
> 
> They're not dying they are just woefully stagnant, they need to be hitting the millions regularly and never anything under a million, they cannot afford to be getting the numbers they do now in the long run.


On what basis should aew be hitting million viewers regularly & never under?? I've never heard any source indicate that's an expectation of TNT. 
Show passed 1 million just once last year & that was unopposed yet remained on air with reports network is happy.
All the players talk about demos - where has total viewership of million been mentioned??


----------



## Pippen94

NathanMayberry said:


> Was Orange Cassidy the centerpiece of that segment? If you go to a wedding, are you doing it for the people getting married or for the guy you didn't even know was going to be in it? So its absurd that the viewership is being attributed to him. The fact that you bring this up and can't even answer my question is telling.
> 
> So I'm going to ask you again pip.
> 
> Was the Jericho vs Orange Cassidy match last summer not one of the least watched matches in Dynamite's history? I expect a Yes, or a No with proof of a match on Dynamite that had less viewers.
> 
> Its absurd how people will conflate the things they like and are familiar with, with what is popular. Calling Orange Cassidy any kind of draw is as delusional as the WWE fans calling Bad Bunny a nobody.


Who knew Orange Cassidy would crash wedding of faction he's been feuding with for months?? Maybe the million fans who tuned in??
When show has passed million mark minute-to-minute segment most likely to have featured Cassidy ahead of any other performer.


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> I literally never said that. I even said I enjoyed the wedding segment, because I got a chance to watch it through the virgin eyes of my wife witnessing her first wrestling wedding. “Oh my God. Look at what she’s wearing! Listen to his vows!? Wtf kind of minister is that? (I replied “a very Sinister one” heh) This isn’t really their wedding, is it?”
> 
> She made the segment fully enjoyable, but I assure you I never said anything about running 850k off. That’s just more of Pippen attributing made up quotes to someone.


Yes you did. Said show was poor & the extra eyes wouldn't be back. Two weeks later show did same number.
After Shaq match coming up you'll do same thing claiming episode was wasted opportunity & predict decline following week.
Like predicting waves at beach


----------



## Pippen94

NathanMayberry said:


> Is your purpose here to not address what people are saying, and make up shit that they're not? You do that on so many posts.
> 
> Did I say any lies?


All those points have been put forward & addressed many many times before you rehashed them


----------



## bdon

Pippen94 said:


> Yes you did. Said show was poor & the extra eyes wouldn't be back. Two weeks later show did same number.
> After Shaq match coming up you'll do same thing claiming episode was wasted opportunity & predict decline following week.
> Like predicting waves at beach


Show me the quote.


----------



## bdon

Pippen94 said:


> Yes you did. Said show was poor & the extra eyes wouldn't be back. Two weeks later show did same number.
> After Shaq match coming up you'll do same thing claiming episode was wasted opportunity & predict decline following week.
> Like predicting waves at beach





bdon said:


> *I deserve to be hogtied and hung out to dry, because I did actually enjoy it. It was my wife’s first taste of seeing what a “wrestling wedding” segment consists of. It was enjoyable watching it through her virgin eyes, able to see the look of confusion, intrigue at where all of this is going, etc.
> 
> An awful, awful wedding segment...and I had fun.*


Now shut the fucking lies up.


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> Show me the quote.


Tell me what you said?? I don't wanna go chasing back. 
If it sounds right I'll agree.


----------



## bdon

That was the ONLY thing I commented about the ratings that week.


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> That was the ONLY thing I commented about the ratings that week.


I don't have the energy to go through your posts. 
That's not the only post you made.


----------



## bdon

Let me take that back, because I had predicted the shows ratings would be up due to the previous week’s awesome episode. So I was wrong: I actually had one other post about the ratings:


bdon said:


> I was on the money.
> 
> Given the ending to this week’s show and the advertised tag match next week, I’m going to predict 880k to 930k for next week.
> 
> As always, the rating this week has nothing to do with what happened THIS week. The rating that came out today is a reward for the awesome episode last week.


----------



## bdon

Pippen94 said:


> I don't have the energy to go through your posts.
> That's not the only post you made.


You deserve a ban for blatant lies.

@Firefromthegods how is slander not a bannable offense?


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> You deserve a ban for blatant lies.
> 
> @Firefromthegods how is slander not a bannable offense?


It's not slander you're a anonymous forum account - ha. You going to sue me for saying you said that??
You quoted the wrong week too!! Wedding week proved you wrong. You made comments two weeks before!!!


----------



## bdon

Back to ignore you go. No reason to argue with a goddamn child.


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> Except next week’s show, which will probably be good, won’t have many viewers, because they won’t be giving it a watch in back-to-back weeks over the stupid shit they saw this week.


Sound familiar?? 
28 days ago too when show did 850k like I said!!!!

I am going to sue you for slander!!


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Lol do we have any lawyers on the board?


----------



## bdon

Pippen94 said:


> Sound familiar??
> 28 days ago too when show did 850k like I said!!!!
> 
> I am going to sue you for slander!!


You claimed I made a comment about the wedding segment that I did not.

Here is the list of quotes based on that shitty episode when I said


bdon said:


> Want to argue they struggle to get 800k next week?





LifeInCattleClass said:


> they'll get over 800k next week for sure
> 
> first time in weeks where there isn't something big happening elsewhere





A PG Attitude said:


> I'll take that bet... if they get over 800k viewers next week you cant post on here for 3 days.





bdon said:


> Of course they tuned out after starting last week’s show with a fucking 8 year old and Luther. Anyone could hav predicted that.
> 
> I will continue telling em, but it doesn’t mean anyone will listen or admit defeat.
> 
> @LifeInCattleClass still won’t admit I was right.



They ended up doing 724k, kid.

Now back to the woodshed you go. Take care.


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> You claimed I made a comment about the wedding segment that I did not.
> 
> Here is the list of quotes based on that shitty episode when I said
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They ended up doing 724k, kid.
> 
> Now back to the woodshed you go. Take care.


You wanted receipts & you got it.

You said viewers wouldn't be back after 850k.
Guess what came back for wedding to tune of 845k.

Don't ever call me a liar.


----------



## bdon

bdon said:


> Except next week’s show, which will probably be good, won’t have many viewers, because they won’t be giving it a watch in *back-to-back weeks* over the stupid shit they saw this week.





Pippen94 said:


> You wanted receipts & you got it.
> 
> You said viewers wouldn't be back after 850k.
> Guess what came back for wedding to tune of 845k.
> 
> Don't ever call me a liar.


Do you understand the phrase “back-to-back weeks?

The very next week was 724k viewers.


----------



## Pippen94

bdon said:


> Do you understand the phrase “back-to-back weeks?
> 
> The very next week was 724k viewers.


Now there's conditions to what you didn't say but actually said. 

I can go back & find more of your posts just as easy because I stopped at that ond.

Maybe you should make smoke puff exit??


----------



## CM Buck

Pippen94 said:


> On what basis should aew be hitting million viewers regularly & never under?? I've never heard any source indicate that's an expectation of TNT.
> Show passed 1 million just once last year & that was unopposed yet remained on air with reports network is happy.
> All the players talk about demos - where has total viewership of million been mentioned??


I want them to compete with the WWE man. Competing with nxt is simply not good enough. SmackDown and raw average a million or so every week.

How is it not a reasonable expectation for AEW to get raw and SmackDown numbers every week?

@bdon Do not call Pippen94 a child either. Due to cult and chip abusing that its not going to happen anymore, capisce?


----------



## Not Lying

Firefromthegods said:


> @bdon Do not call Pippen94 a child either. Due to cult and chip abusing that its not going to happen anymore, *capisce*?


What did you just say?


----------



## rbl85

Firefromthegods said:


> I want them to compete with the WWE man. Competing with nxt is simply not good enough. SmackDown and raw average a million or so every week.
> 
> *How is it not a reasonable expectation for AEW to get raw and SmackDown numbers every week?*
> 
> @bdon Do not call Pippen94 a child either. Due to cult and chip abusing that its not going to happen anymore, capisce?


It is not, not at all actually.

AEW could be a perfect show it will never do RAW or SD numbers or if it does it will be in years.


----------



## CM Buck

The Definition of Technician said:


> What did you just say?


I was not aware that was derogatory my bad.

@rbl85 that's a long term goal. If they cut out and address/acknowledge the inconsistencies I believe they could


----------



## rbl85

Firefromthegods said:


> I was not aware that was derogatory my bad.
> 
> @rbl85 that's a long term goal. If they cut out and address/acknowledge the inconsistencies I believe they could


They're going to need someone who's bigger than wrestling.


----------



## USAUSA1

SPCDRI said:


> Storms that were preoccupying people and possibly making it impossible to watch television helped ratings?


Most of the country had snow storms and didn't lose power. All they had to do was watch TV.


----------



## The Wood

A


Pippen94 said:


> On what basis should aew be hitting million viewers regularly & never under?? I've never heard any source indicate that's an expectation of TNT.
> Show passed 1 million just once last year & that was unopposed yet remained on air with reports network is happy.
> All the players talk about demos - where has total viewership of million been mentioned??


This is so slanted. “I believe what I want to believe. Everyone I like says things I like, so I don’t have to listen to things I don’t like. There are no reports the network is unhappy, so the network must be happy. Having under 1 million viewers is way above the nothing expectations I have ever heard.”


----------



## The Wood

Firefromthegods said:


> I want them to compete with the WWE man. Competing with nxt is simply not good enough. SmackDown and raw average a million or so every week.
> 
> How is it not a reasonable expectation for AEW to get raw and SmackDown numbers every week?
> 
> @bdon Do not call Pippen94 a child either. Due to cult and chip abusing that its not going to happen anymore, capisce?


Is that why they were banned? I know you’ve got a tough gig, but come on — that’s a bit silly.

Be what you are. If you’re a silly kid, be a silly kid. If you’re not — be an adult that is called a silly kid.

This place needs Chip and Cult back. Amazing fucking posters. And you’re even seeing the hardcores miss them. Selfishly, I miss me brothers-in-logic.


----------



## ProjectGargano

The Wood said:


> Is that why they were banned? I know you’ve got a tough gig, but come on — that’s a bit silly.
> 
> Be what you are. If you’re a silly kid, be a silly kid. If you’re not — be an adult that is called a silly kid.
> 
> This place needs Chip and Cult back. Amazing fucking posters. And you’re even seeing the hardcores miss them. Selfishly, I miss me brothers-in-logic.


Be more Chip and less Mr.316.


----------



## La Parka

#bringbackthebrothersinlogic


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> Is that why they were banned? I know you’ve got a tough gig, but come on — that’s a bit silly.
> 
> Be what you are. If you’re a silly kid, be a silly kid. If you’re not — be an adult that is called a silly kid.
> 
> *This place needs Chip and Cult back. Amazing fucking posters. And you’re even seeing the hardcores miss them. Selfishly, I miss me brothers-in-logic.*


You have AWFUL taste in posters then 😂

Nobody misses them except for the hopeless cultists who are still unable to move on from them.


----------



## Not Lying

DammitChrist said:


> You have AWFUL taste in posters then 😂
> 
> Nobody misses them except for the hopeless cultists who are still unable to move on from them.


I mean really, there's a bunch who type the same shit these 2 did, except they don't do it 100x over in long paragraphs which makes its easier to just skip over


----------



## The Wood

ProjectGargano said:


> Be more Chip and less Mr.316.


I like both! Why not let them decide who has the better points in an open forum? 



DammitChrist said:


> You have AWFUL taste in posters then 😂
> 
> Nobody misses them except for the hopeless cultists who are still unable to move on from them.


There was literally a post from an AEW fan that misses Chip to some degree. But okay! Thanks for trolling.


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> What did you just say?


PC Principal is great lol


----------



## Brad Boyd

DammitChrist said:


> You have AWFUL taste in posters then 😂
> 
> Nobody misses them except for the hopeless cultists who are still unable to move on from them.


Drop it. Plenty of reasonable people that aren't cultists would be more than happy to have those guys back. Chip especially was let go and labelled as a guy who didn't break any rules. I have gotten an explanation on that part but it still doesn't feel fully justified. It's not like some of the people that openly opposed him and the others did much to help the situation. He frequently pointed out how many of the "loyalists" ended up copping a majority of the bans. But anyway let's not go there and use this thread for what it's used for


----------



## Not Lying

RapShepard said:


> PC Principal is great lol


He's by far the best character they introduced over the pas few seasons, his scenes are so good


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> He's by far the best character they introduced over the pas few seasons, his scenes are so good


Agreed the change to season long stories really let him become a fleshed out character quick.


----------



## La Parka

DammitChrist said:


> You have AWFUL taste in posters then 😂
> 
> Nobody misses them except for the hopeless cultists who are still unable to move on from them.


What seems more cult like? 

Defending AEW's terrible ratings because of NXT, baseball, basketball, football, hockey, soccer, political happenings, the weather, a local fair running the same time as AEW, a popular grandmother visiting town, a showing of final destination 3 at the local theatre, a sale on socks at wal-mart and many others.

or....

Occasionally bringing up how ridiculous it was to ban people who dared be critical of AEW.


----------



## Not Lying

RapShepard said:


> Agreed the change to season long stories really let him become a fleshed out character quick.


For sure, loved his whole mini story with Strong Woman and the birth of PC Babies. 



La Parka said:


> What seems more cult like?
> 
> Defending AEW's terrible ratings because of NXT, baseball, basketball, football, hockey, soccer, political happenings, the weather, a local fair running the same time as AEW, a popular grandmother visiting town, a showing of final destination 3 at the local theatre, a sale on socks at wal-mart and many others.
> 
> or....
> 
> Occasionally bringing up how ridiculous it was to ban people who dared be critical of AEW.


Let's be very clear:


Pandemic news
Riots news
Presidential debates/Trump Saga
Power outages around the country

are legitimate reasons for many people to switch over from a wrestling show.
Did you see people making any excuses before the pandemic?

Try a little bit of objectivity. Bringing the fact that many people might switch over in the moment and and watch wrestling later is something very obvious.


----------



## La Parka

The Definition of Technician said:


> Let's be very clear:
> 
> 
> Pandemic news
> Riots news
> Presidential debates/Trump Saga
> Power outages around the country
> 
> are legitimate reasons for many people to switch over from a wrestling show.
> Did you see people making any excuses before the pandemic?
> 
> Try a little bit of objectivity.


There have been huge news stories, There have been riots. There have been controversial figures in politics and there have been power outrages around the world since the beginning of wrestling. 

AEW is the only fanbase that consistently uses this as an excuse as to why people are not watching their television program. 

Do you think WWE only had 700k viewers when 911 happened? 
Do you think WWE / WCW was at AEW levels of interest during the Rodney King riots? 
Do you think the George Bush saga completely overshadowed the wrestling world from 2001-2009? 
Do you think this is the first power outage in history?

The point is, there is always SOMETHING happening in the world. First it was the World Series that fucked up AEW's rating, then it was the holidays, then it was the election, then it was the weather. 

The excuses just go on and on and on. 

I'm sure AEW would have a great rating if sports stopped, holidays were all canceled, political discourse was abolished and the weather would just always be sunny. But that's just not the world we live in and if you want to have a discussion about low ratings but can't seem to look at AEW being at fault, despite being the common denominator throughout all of these situations. Then it's you who should try a little bit of objectivity.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

In the main event battle, AEW with Jon Moxley & Lance Archer & Rey Fenix vs. Butcher & Blade & Eddie Kingston did 741,000 viewers and 394,000 in 18-49. NXT with Finn Balor & Roderick Strong & Kyle O’Reilly vs. Oney Lorcan & Danny Burch & Pete Dunne did 617,000 viewers and 163,000 in 18-49.

For the NXT overrun, they picked up 81,000 viewers and 39,000 in 18-49.

AEW opened with Matt Hardy & Adam Page vs. Jack Evans & Angelico and the post match angle at 772,000 viewers and 427,000 in 18-49. It was AEW’s high point with women 18-49. NXT had an O’Reilly interview which later involved Strong & Balor and the attack by Lorcan & Burch & Dunne, and William Regal and Santos Escobar talking that did 997,000 viewers and 319,000 in 18-49. It was NXT’s high point across the board.

In the second quarter, AEW did 763,000 viewers and 428,000 in 18-49 for The Inner Circle interview plus the first half of Riho vs. Serena Deeb. This was the 18-49 peak for AEW. NXT did 772,000 viewers and 235,000 in 18-49 for Candice LeRae & Indi Hartwell vs. Shotzi Blackheart & Ember Moon.

In the third quarter, AEW did 789,000 viewers and 396,000 in 18-49 for the second half of Riho vs. Deeb and Shaquille O’Neal & Jade Cargill shooting hoops. NXT did 703,000 viewers and 219,000 in18-49 for a Pat McAfee video, Kushida talking to Bronson Reed and Isaiah Scott vs. Leon Ruff.

In the fourth quarter, AEW did 775,000 viewers and 389,000 in 18-49 for Orange Cassidy vs. Luther and the angle with Sting being attacked by Team Taz. NXT fell to 648,000 viewers and 177,000 in 18-49 for Kacy Catanzaro & Kayden Carter vs. Aliyah & Jessi Kamea and the post-match wit Catanzaro and Xia Li.

In the fifth quarter, AEW did 699,000 viewers and 376,000 in 18-49 for the first part of Young Bucks vs. Ortiz & Santana for the tag titles. NXT did 702,000 viewers and 184,000 in 18-49 for the Dusty Classic segment with Wesley Lee & Carter Nash, Raquel Gonzalez & Dakota Kai and Shayna Baszler & Nia Jax.

In the sixth quarter, AEW did 708,000 viewers and 387,000 in 18-49 for the end of Bucks vs. Ortiz & Santana and the post match angle, the baby reveal and the first part of FTR vs. Matt & Mike Sydal. NXT did 631,000 viewers and 157,000 in 18-49 for Toni Storm attacking Io Shirai and Kushida vs. Tyler Rust.

In the seventh quarter, AEW did 728,000 viewers and 403,000 in18-49 for the ending of FTR vs. Matt Mike Sydal, the post-match angle with Jurassic Express and a Moxley interview. This was the high point of the show in males 18-49. NXT did 614,000 viewers and 162,000 in 18-49 for Zoey Stark vs. Valentina Feroz and a Karrion Kross & Scarlett video.

In the eighth quarter, AEW had Moxley & Fenix & Archer vs. Butcher & Blade & Kingston and gained 13,000 viewers, but lost 9,000 in 18-49. NXT had Balor & Strong & O’Reilly vs. Lorcan & Burch & Dunne and gained 3,000 viewers and 1,000 in 18-49.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rbl85

Riho that rating queen

Also for me it shows that a lot of people who "watched" the first quarter of NXT didn't really want to watch it.

What was the program before NXT ?
Maybe TNT would be wise to try to put better program before Dynamite.


----------



## .christopher.

ProjectGargano said:


> What company is producing wrestling for you then? If you hate them so much why are you always here?


Because, and keep up, I want them to succeed. Crazy concept, right? Now crawl back in your hole.


The Raw Smackdown said:


> What a crappy statement. Of course it's pro wrestling. Just because it's not what YOU want doesn't mean it's pro wrestling. let's fall back on the self importance please.


No, it's a fact. Their whole show is based around making a mockery of wrestling.


The Wood said:


> Is that why they were banned? I know you’ve got a tough gig, but come on — that’s a bit silly.
> 
> Be what you are. If you’re a silly kid, be a silly kid. If you’re not — be an adult that is called a silly kid.
> 
> This place needs Chip and Cult back. Amazing fucking posters. And you’re even seeing the hardcores miss them. Selfishly, I miss me brothers-in-logic.





Brad Boyd said:


> Drop it. Plenty of reasonable people that aren't cultists would be more than happy to have those guys back. Chip especially was let go and labelled as a guy who didn't break any rules. I have gotten an explanation on that part but it still doesn't feel fully justified. It's not like some of the people that openly opposed him and the others did much to help the situation. He frequently pointed out how many of the "loyalists" ended up copping a majority of the bans. But anyway let's not go there and use this thread for what it's used for





La Parka said:


> There have been huge news stories, There have been riots. There have been controversial figures in politics and there have been power outrages around the world since the beginning of wrestling.
> 
> AEW is the only fanbase that consistently uses this as an excuse as to why people are not watching their television program.
> 
> Do you think WWE only had 700k viewers when 911 happened?
> Do you think WWE / WCW was at AEW levels of interest during the Rodney King riots?
> Do you think the George Bush saga completely overshadowed the wrestling world from 2001-2009?
> Do you think this is the first power outage in history?
> 
> The point is, there is always SOMETHING happening in the world. First it was the World Series that fucked up AEW's rating, then it was the holidays, then it was the election, then it was the weather.
> 
> The excuses just go on and on and on.
> 
> I'm sure AEW would have a great rating if sports stopped, holidays were all canceled, political discourse was abolished and the weather would just always be sunny. But that's just not the world we live in and if you want to have a discussion about low ratings but can't seem to look at AEW being at fault, despite being the common denominator throughout all of these situations. Then it's you who should try a little bit of objectivity.


Some great fucking posts in here.


----------



## Chan Hung

I think everyone here can agree on one thing, AEW's ratings average is roughly around 750-780k each week. On the pro i guess you can say it has been consistant usually which is good. They definitely keep the base audience. Now the bad, it has not grown. This is troubling not from a fan viewpoint but worse should be from their business end. They need to micro analyze what is not working and do away with it. If this means cutting unused or useless talent to use the money for PR, marketing, promotions etc then it should happen. This is not a popular action when companies let talents go but if these talents are not bringing in viewers, merchandise sales etc..then there is not a major business need for them. Whatever it takes to grow the company should be the goal.


----------



## ProjectGargano

.christopher. said:


> Because, and keep up, I want them to succeed. Crazy concept, right? Now crawl back in your hole.
> 
> No, it's a fact. Their whole show is based around making a mockery of wrestling.
> 
> 
> 
> Some great fucking posts in here.


"Crawl back in your hole"? If there is someone here that is a snake is you, "mate". I didn´t insulted anyone.


----------



## DammitChrist

.christopher. said:


> Because, and keep up, I want them to succeed. Crazy concept, right? Now crawl back in your hole.
> 
> No, it's a fact. Their whole show is based around making a mockery of wrestling.
> 
> 
> 
> Some great fucking posts in here.


Yea, I don’t see any “great” posts out of that bunch tbh. You’re probably just mistaken or something.



La Parka said:


> What seems more cult like?
> 
> Defending AEW's terrible ratings because of NXT, baseball, basketball, football, hockey, soccer, political happenings, the weather, a local fair running the same time as AEW, a popular grandmother visiting town, a showing of final destination 3 at the local theatre, a sale on socks at wal-mart and many others.
> 
> or....
> 
> Occasionally bringing up how ridiculous it was to ban people who dared be critical of AEW.


I’ll easily have to go with the latter. 

They don’t seem to be reasonable at all regarding the ratings topic, and they’re shamelessly rooting for the company to fail deep down going by their cynical posts. 

That sounds more like a (negative) cult tbh.


----------



## ProjectGargano

AEW was #4 in the charts while NXT was #39.


----------



## The Wood

La Parka said:


> There have been huge news stories, There have been riots. There have been controversial figures in politics and there have been power outrages around the world since the beginning of wrestling.
> 
> AEW is the only fanbase that consistently uses this as an excuse as to why people are not watching their television program.
> 
> Do you think WWE only had 700k viewers when 911 happened?
> Do you think WWE / WCW was at AEW levels of interest during the Rodney King riots?
> Do you think the George Bush saga completely overshadowed the wrestling world from 2001-2009?
> Do you think this is the first power outage in history?
> 
> The point is, there is always SOMETHING happening in the world. First it was the World Series that fucked up AEW's rating, then it was the holidays, then it was the election, then it was the weather.
> 
> The excuses just go on and on and on.
> 
> I'm sure AEW would have a great rating if sports stopped, holidays were all canceled, political discourse was abolished and the weather would just always be sunny. But that's just not the world we live in and if you want to have a discussion about low ratings but can't seem to look at AEW being at fault, despite being the common denominator throughout all of these situations. Then it's you who should try a little bit of objectivity.


Great fucking post.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Does someone have the ratings per quarter already?


----------



## Not Lying

La Parka said:


> There have been huge news stories, There have been riots. There have been controversial figures in politics and there have been power outrages around the world since the beginning of wrestling.
> 
> AEW is the only fanbase that consistently uses this as an excuse as to why people are not watching their television program.
> 
> Do you think WWE only had 700k viewers when 911 happened?
> Do you think WWE / WCW was at AEW levels of interest during the Rodney King riots?
> Do you think the George Bush saga completely overshadowed the wrestling world from 2001-2009?
> Do you think this is the first power outage in history?
> 
> The point is, there is always SOMETHING happening in the world. First it was the World Series that fucked up AEW's rating, then it was the holidays, then it was the election, then it was the weather.
> 
> The excuses just go on and on and on.
> 
> I'm sure AEW would have a great rating if sports stopped, holidays were all canceled, political discourse was abolished and the weather would just always be sunny. But that's just not the world we live in and if you want to have a discussion about low ratings but can't seem to look at AEW being at fault, despite being the common denominator throughout all of these situations. Then it's you who should try a little bit of objectivity.


Are you delusional enough to believe all this BS you just typed?  

Do you realize most of you typed makes no sense?

People have used excuses all the time, how many times has RAW's rating been low and it's because of football competition/holiday/politics? it's a damn excuse for a reason because without those circumstances ratings would be marginally or not better, You're all doing mental shit to deny the deny the obvious I told about the circusmtances that shaves off those 100K+ viewers. 
By you only saying this is used for AEW makes it obvious you're just biased.


----------



## rbl85

ProjectGargano said:


> Does someone have the ratings per quarter already?


previous page


----------



## Whoanma

rbl85 said:


> *Riho that rating queen*


----------



## DammitChrist

It's nice to see them (and Riho) doing well in spite of an ongoing pandemic :bjpenn



The Wood said:


> Great fucking post.


You're not really qualified (at all) to judge whether a post is good or bad regarding the ratings tbh.


----------



## Dark Emperor

rbl85 said:


> Riho that rating queen
> 
> Also for me it shows that a lot of people who "watched" the first quarter of NXT didn't really want to watch it.
> 
> What was the program before NXT ?
> Maybe TNT would be wise to try to put better program before Dynamite.


They did want to watch part of it, had nothing to do with previous show. People wanted to see the fallout to Undisputed Era breaking up. The TakeOver ending was promoted heavily on WWE's social media. Once they saw that segment, they left as not interested in rest of the show.

What was the last segment that got viewers that high for both shows. We must be going back to the time of Sting debut.


----------



## rbl85

Dark Emperor said:


> They did want to watch it. People wanted to see the fallout to Undisputed Era breaking up. The TakeOver ending was promoted heavily on WWE's social media. Onc*e they saw that segment, they left as not interested in rest of the show.*
> 
> What was the last segment that got viewers that high for both shows. We must be going back to the time of Sting debut.


Then it's not good news for NXT


----------



## Dark Emperor

Yes, but good news for WWE as at least some fans are interested in the Undisputed Era when they move up. So they will move merch.

NXT is not really of major importance to the company.


----------



## Pippen94

#4 for night & beat an NBA game - disaster


----------



## 3venflow

Always the same story... NXT appeals to 50+ males, AEW appeals to 18-49 males. And as always, AEW does well in the total 18-49 demo.

When are they gonna announce the new show? Is Covid delaying it?


----------



## Pippen94

Brad Boyd said:


> Drop it. Plenty of reasonable people that aren't cultists would be more than happy to have those guys back. Chip especially was let go and labelled as a guy who didn't break any rules. I have gotten an explanation on that part but it still doesn't feel fully justified. It's not like some of the people that openly opposed him and the others did much to help the situation. He frequently pointed out how many of the "loyalists" ended up copping a majority of the bans. But anyway let's not go there and use this thread for what it's used for


Those guys leaving coincided with formation of Cornette topic. Some ppl like to be lead & have others formulate their thinking.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Wow, what was before NXT?...997k his freaking high to begin with. If it wasn´t the strong beggining they would have done less than 700k easily.


----------



## Joe Gill

When you factor how horrible WWE currently is, factor in AEW has a billionaire owner with very deep pockets, factor in a solid roster, factor in they are on a major network like TNT, factor in what the early ratings were after the first few episodes, factor in Dynamite is TV 14 and not PG 13 and is supposed to be tailored to older fans.....when you take all of these into considerations the fact that they are only getting 700-850k viewers per episode is a huge failure. Be honest.. when Tony and Cody were hyping up the product before Dynamite first aired is this the type of product you expected? Matches featuring Luther and Peter Avalon? Marco Stunt Kidnapping storylines? Matt Hardy teleporting? Colt Cobana casually an randomly a member of the dork order? Rusev turned into a cringe comedy character involving video games? Storylines that never get explained? I want AEW to succeed as much as anyone...but its time to call it for what it is. Until there is a fundamental change on how Dynamite is booked the ratings will slowly start to dwindle into the 500-600k range later this year.


----------



## Pippen94

Firefromthegods said:


> I want them to compete with the WWE man. Competing with nxt is simply not good enough. SmackDown and raw average a million or so every week.
> 
> How is it not a reasonable expectation for AEW to get raw and SmackDown numbers every week?
> 
> @bdon Do not call Pippen94 a child either. Due to cult and chip abusing that its not going to happen anymore, capisce?


Your expectations aren't that of TNT & aew don't need to appease you. The only figure I've seen thrown around was 500k by Meltzer but the more you read about ratings the more you realize total viewership is rarely worried about. 
Networks wish to hit a specific audience which advertisers target. In TNT's case it's especially true they seek younger demo to align with NBA & other programming.

As far as increasing audience I don't think it can or will happen at least until NHL replaces wwe Wednesday in October. Cable is in decline & all other shows are shedding viewers. To expect aew which is holding firm to grow significantly in isolation is unrealistic.

1 million is number you're picked because it sounds good but there's little rhythm or reason behind this expectation.


----------



## Pippen94

ProjectGargano said:


> Wow, what was before NXT?...997k his freaking high to begin with. If it wasn´t the strong beggining they would have done less than 700k easily.


Yep, lead ins bumped it's rating & overrun probably too. Some bad demo numbers regardless. This is declining show ppl should be worried about.


----------



## 3venflow

I think NCIS led into NXT didn't it? I read they had a 10 minute overrun too, that's crazy.

I'm hoping if NHL is moving to USA, it forces Vince to move NXT from Wednesday, allowing both shows to improve their audiences.

Off-topic, but IMPACT did its best rating since Kenny's first appearance this week, a shade under 200k.


----------



## Mike E

Good for AEW to remain in the top 5 for the night! TNT has to be happy to have a top 10 program every Wednesday night.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Pippen94 said:


> As far as increasing audience I don't think it can or will happen at least until NHL replaces wwe Wednesday in October. Cable is in decline & all other shows are shedding viewers. To expect aew which is holding firm to grow significantly in isolation is unrealistic.


People like you keep saying this like a fact and desperately wishing this, but the NHL actually does lower numbers than NXT. It's not exactly a big sport. Even AEW beat some NBA games so can you imagine how low NHL numbers are.

WWE brand is a lot more valuable to USA Network than NHL lol. Raw is massive for USA Network and obviously they also just paid $1bn for WWE Network rights.

Chances are, Wednesdays NHL games will be available online on Peacock just like their English Premier League games. It's actually a good selling point for Peacock to get diehard hockey fans. 

Either way, AEW ratings aint growing significantly even without competition. They just just sneaked 1m without it last year but their peak was higher then.


----------



## Dark Emperor

3venflow said:


> I think NCIS led into NXT didn't it? I read they had a 10 minute overrun too, that's crazy.
> 
> I'm hoping if NHL is moving to USA, it forces Vince to move NXT from Wednesday, allowing both shows to improve their audiences.
> 
> Off-topic, but IMPACT did its best rating since Kenny's first appearance this week, a shade under 200k.


Nothing to do with the previous show, if it was then you'd see that show high on the chart as it would have started at 7pm. But the highest show from USA Network on that chart is actually NXT.

It was the Undisputed Era story, people were interested in the fallout. NXT gave it to them early and a lot left after. AEW fans always finding excuses, NCIS aint a big hit show.


----------



## Claro De Luna

Well done, good ratings. @The Wood just loves having a pop any chance he gets. He's the new Chip lol.


----------



## 3venflow

Dark Emperor said:


> but the NHL actually does lower numbers than NXT


There are a fair few articles suggesting NHL (and NASCAR) are moving to the USA Network.









NBCSN will shut down at end of 2021 as several sports properties will shift to USA Network, according to reports


The sports television landscape is about to undergo a huge shakeup with NBCUniversal shuttering NBCSN and shifting sports to USA and Peacock.



eu.usatoday.com





NHL ratings are apparently up although I don't have a full list, but the article below says it is beating NXT.





__





NHL & NASCAR Moving To USA Network Could Affect WWE & AEW Viewership


NBC Sports Network, the channel featuring NHL, NASCAR and a host of other sports franchises, is shutting down. While no official date has been given when the channel will shut off, it will happen sometime in the next 12 months. Furthermore, NHL and NASCAR are both expected to move to other NBC /...




prowrestlingnewshub.com





The real question is, _why_ are WWE and WWE fans like yourself so eager for NXT to stay on Wednesday? AEW is no threat, right? So why not put NXT on a night they would get the extra fans, further establishing them as WWE's third brand? Their ratings shot up over 800k when unopposed by AEW for a couple of weeks last year. Seems puzzling.


----------



## Pippen94

Dark Emperor said:


> People like you keep saying this like a fact and desperately wishing this, but the NHL actually does lower numbers than NXT. It's not exactly a big sport. Even AEW beat some NBA games so can you imagine how low NHL numbers are.
> 
> WWE brand is a lot more valuable to USA Network than NHL lol. Raw is massive for USA Network and obviously they also just paid $1bn for WWE Network rights.
> 
> Chances are, Wednesdays NHL games will be available online on Peacock just like their English Premier League games. It's actually a good selling point for Peacock to get diehard hockey fans.
> 
> Either way, AEW ratings aint growing significantly even without competition. They just just sneaked 1m without it last year but their peak was higher then.


That's not how it works; NBC will put up with regular season ratings in order to get Stanley Cup, playoffs & matches which involve big markets. Wwe Wednesday best gives only 0.26 - it's average this year will be bad!!

If you don't think either show gets bump from being unopposed you didn't follow ratings too close last year.


----------



## Pippen94

Claro De Luna said:


> Well done, good ratings. @The Wood just loves having a pop any chance he gets. He's the new Chip lol.


I have him on ignore. Doesn't resort to name calling & abuse too often so won't be banned but does spread misinformation


----------



## 3venflow

Pippen94 said:


> If you don't think either show gets bump from being unopposed you didn't follow ratings too close last year.


Yup, both AEW and WWE's ratings would benefit from NXT being moved to Tuesday or Thursday. But NXT is placed strategically as a blockade.

NXT/AEW, 8/12/20: 619,000 / 792,000

Four unopposed weeks in 2020:

NXT, 8/19/20: 853,000
NXT, 8/26/20: 824,000
AEW, 9/2/20: 928,000
AEW, 9/9/20: 1,016,000

Back to normal...

NXT/AEW, 9/16/20: 689,000 / 886,000


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

@Whoanma 

*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1362726837374177280*


----------



## fabi1982

ProjectGargano said:


> Wow, what was before NXT?...997k his freaking high to begin with. If it wasn´t the strong beggining they would have done less than 700k easily.


At least nothing in the top 150.


----------



## Pippen94

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> @Whoanma
> 
> *
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1362726837374177280*


Well done


----------



## ECFuckinW

The Wood said:


> It will never get that good for Kenny Omega.


Doesnt need the trash wwe belt kenny isca god.


----------



## CM Buck

The Wood said:


> Is that why they were banned? I know you’ve got a tough gig, but come on — that’s a bit silly.
> 
> Be what you are. If you’re a silly kid, be a silly kid. If you’re not — be an adult that is called a silly kid.
> 
> This place needs Chip and Cult back. Amazing fucking posters. And you’re even seeing the hardcores miss them. Selfishly, I miss me brothers-in-logic.


No. That's my ruling. Pippen94 asked me to get you lot to stop calling him a kid in private. I said I will but they are allowed to do it in rants.

As for why they were banned that's already been discussed ad nauseum

As for logic you still got shed and right and rap and boss. They're just way more centrist and balanced in their criticisms.

@Pippen94 No I didn't just pick 1 million because it looks pretty and is a nice round number. Given the size of America and the reach of their direct competition in the WWE they should be easily matching main roster numbers by now.

There's absolutely no excuse to get under a million. I don’t care if tnt are fine with that,

I don't want aew to be the new impact where they're just complacent and happy to just exist. I want aew to REALLY challenge WWE.

I want AEW to eventually be recognised like the WWE.

You may just be okay with aew never touring the world or being a recognisable brand or being synonymous with wrestling like WWE is but that doesn't mean the entire aew fanbase is.

Oh and no that doesn't mean I'm a hater and think they're failing or that I want them to fail or any other nonsense like that. It just means I want them to have the mentality of the skys the limit and not just rest on their laurels


----------



## RapShepard

Firefromthegods said:


> No. That's my ruling. Pippen94 asked me to get you lot to stop calling him a kid in private. I said I will but they are allowed to do it in rants.
> 
> As for why they were banned that's already been discussed ad nauseum
> 
> As for logic you still got shed and right and rap and boss. They're just way more centrist and balanced in their criticisms.
> 
> @Pippen94 No I didn't just pick 1 million because it looks pretty and is a nice round number. Given the size of America and the reach of their direct competition in the WWE they should be easily matching main roster numbers by now.
> 
> There's absolutely no excuse to get under a million. I don’t care if tnt are fine with that,
> 
> I don't want aew to be the new impact where they're just complacent and happy to just exist. I want aew to REALLY challenge WWE.
> 
> I want AEW to eventually be recognised like the WWE.
> 
> You may just be okay with aew never touring the world or being a recognisable brand or being synonymous with wrestling like WWE is but that doesn't mean the entire aew fanbase is.
> 
> Oh and no that doesn't mean I'm a hater and think they're failing or that I want them to fail or any other nonsense like that. It just means I want them to have the mentality of the skys the limit and not just rest on their laurels


Well you should know that AEW just simply can't grow and you're ridiculous to think they should be trying to grow according to some lol


----------



## La Parka

The Definition of Technician said:


> Are you delusional enough to believe all this BS you just typed?
> 
> Do you realize most of you typed makes no sense?
> 
> People have used excuses all the time, how many times has RAW's rating been low and it's because of football competition/holiday/politics? it's a damn excuse for a reason because without those circumstances ratings would be marginally or not better, You're all doing mental shit to deny the deny the obvious I told about the circusmtances that shaves off those 100K+ viewers.
> By you only saying this is used for AEW makes it obvious you're just biased.


Please show me the posts of the daily excuses that WWE fans have. The majority of WWE fans criticize WWE all the time and when they have a shitty rating most fans realize it’s a reflection of the product.


AEW fans are a complete different breed of wrestling fans. Every show is apparently 8/10 but there’s always some magical reason why no ones watching the show. For some reason that magical reason NEVER has anything to do with the lack of quality that the show consistently produces.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

At the end of the day AEW are probably fine for a while costing along with 750k viewers but that's not gonna last forever, TNT is gonna want that to increase sooner rather than later, and the way AEW is going right now I just can't see them getting up into a higher range.


----------



## DaSlacker

They've basically peaked in terms of what they offer and how many cable viewers want to watch it, on average. Touring once more and NXT moved to another night would push the median viewership up by 100,000. 

A lot may disagree but one area I feel they have gone wrong over the last year is booking 1 hour of in ring action across 6 matches every week. There's something naturally bland about decisive match after match in the same place every week and not much of an audience. 

Should have got way more creative. Used more areas of Daily's Place to hold the matches. Gone very promo/heated debate heavy. Book 10-12 matches per show. Hold back on the tag match unless there is a reason for it.


----------



## Pippen94

Firefromthegods said:


> No. That's my ruling. Pippen94 asked me to get you lot to stop calling him a kid in private. I said I will but they are allowed to do it in rants.
> 
> As for why they were banned that's already been discussed ad nauseum
> 
> As for logic you still got shed and right and rap and boss. They're just way more centrist and balanced in their criticisms.
> 
> @Pippen94 No I didn't just pick 1 million because it looks pretty and is a nice round number. Given the size of America and the reach of their direct competition in the WWE they should be easily matching main roster numbers by now.
> 
> There's absolutely no excuse to get under a million. I don’t care if tnt are fine with that,
> 
> I don't want aew to be the new impact where they're just complacent and happy to just exist. I want aew to REALLY challenge WWE.
> 
> I want AEW to eventually be recognised like the WWE.
> 
> You may just be okay with aew never touring the world or being a recognisable brand or being synonymous with wrestling like WWE is but that doesn't mean the entire aew fanbase is.
> 
> Oh and no that doesn't mean I'm a hater and think they're failing or that I want them to fail or any other nonsense like that. It just means I want them to have the mentality of the skys the limit and not just rest on their laurels


There's no science behind what you're saying. You're just looked at smack down & said aew should do that. That's basically pulling number out of nowhere.

It ignores realities such as wwe brand existing nationally since about 1983 & has had far longer to build fanbase - this can be seen in considerably older average age of viewers.
It ignores aew faces direct competition every week that we know from real data stops the show reaching a million or there abouts. How much would raw drop with competition??
Also, cable medium is declining with aew at some points last year confounding trend of wwe & all live sports by actually growing just slightly.

TNT has everything to gain from company growing so their expectations should be realistic but also ambitious. Your expectations far exceed this.

If you touched on any of these issues & looked at views of vested parties you'd have a considered & informed opinion - you don't.


----------



## Pippen94

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> At the end of the day AEW are probably fine for a while costing along with 750k viewers but that's not gonna last forever, TNT is gonna want that to increase sooner rather than later, and the way AEW is going right now I just can't see them getting up into a higher range.


What are you basing that on?? Has TNT indicated they aren't happy with #4 show??


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> Well you should know that AEW just simply can't grow and you're ridiculous to think they should be trying to grow according to some lol


Nobody is saying aew shouldn't try to grow or isn't trying to or won't ever grow, but some of the expectations here are unrealistic


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Nobody is saying aew shouldn't try to grow or isn't trying to or won't ever grow, but some of the expectations here are unrealistic


You say this, but any time somebody points out they should be aiming to get better numbers you start talking about how it's unrealistic for them to do better numbers.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> You say this, but any time somebody points out they should be aiming to get better numbers you start talking about how it's unrealistic for them to do better numbers.


Only when it's unrealistic


----------



## CM Buck

Pip it may be unreasonable now, but if they are still doing these numbers in 2023 or 4 it will be concerning


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Only when it's unrealistic


Why do you find it to be unrealistic? Typically speaking among hardcore fans at worst it's seen to be the 2nd best wrestling show that's enjoyable and fan pleasing. It's on at a great time on a widely available channel, and it's wrestling competition is something that is available for replay in the states next day. As I always say they're not doing bad by any objective means. But folk saying they should be aiming for or doing at least a million aren't really asking that much. 

Though I do think AEW and especially NXT's ratings performance may be a case study of how what's popular amongst fans like us on boards like this, maybe just maybe don't translate as well as we'd think.


----------



## CM Buck

RapShepard said:


> Why do you find it to be unrealistic? Typically speaking among hardcore fans at worst it's seen to be the 2nd best wrestling show that's enjoyable and fan pleasing. It's on at a great time on a widely available channel, and it's wrestling competition is something that is available for replay in the states next day. As I always say they're not doing bad by any objective means. But folk saying they should be aiming for or doing at least a million aren't really asking that much.
> 
> Though I do think AEW and especially NXT's ratings performance may be a case study of how what's popular amongst fans like us on boards like this, maybe just maybe don't translate as well as we'd think.


Im going to just tag you in at this point lol


----------



## RapShepard

Firefromthegods said:


> Im going to just tag you in at this point lol


[emoji23][emoji23] got you lol


----------



## kingfrass44

SPCDRI said:


> Storms that were preoccupying people and possibly making it impossible to watch television helped ratings?


Stop making excuses You never stop making excuses I doubt TNA cares about these stupid excuses


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Pippen94 said:


> What are you basing that on?? Has TNT indicated they aren't happy with #4 show??


I didn't say they weren't happy now, don't put words in my mouth. I said eventually down the line you'd expect TNT to want bigger viewership, and with the current shows they put on I can't see AEW growing their viewership to a steady 900k-1 million weekly.


----------



## Not Lying

La Parka said:


> Please show me the posts of the daily excuses that WWE fans have. The majority of WWE fans criticize WWE all the time and when they have a shitty rating most fans realize it’s a reflection of the product.
> 
> 
> AEW fans are a complete different breed of wrestling fans. Every show is apparently 8/10 but there’s always some magical reason why no ones watching the show. For some reason that magical reason NEVER has anything to do with the lack of quality that the show consistently produces.


You're just full of shit if you really don't think WWE fans have used football and competition as an excuse for YEARS.
You're also full of shit if you keep denying how political drama/competition does impact rating, desperate enough to prove a non-existent point?

Like I said, there's been many bad shows or bad shows follow-up that got in the 700k range, you don't see excuses for it, and go back to the earlier days before the pandemic.
Did you see people making excuses?
If at this point your thick skull can't comprehend that there are stuff out there that can impact ratings besides the quality of the product, there's no point debating a biased AEW fans-hater. I'll tell you this again, try some objectivity.


----------



## Randy Lahey

AEW will be doing 1.1-1.2 mil viewers a week after USA cancels NXT.

Raw will be down to that number in 2 years.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> Why do you find it to be unrealistic? Typically speaking among hardcore fans at worst it's seen to be the 2nd best wrestling show that's enjoyable and fan pleasing. It's on at a great time on a widely available channel, and it's wrestling competition is something that is available for replay in the states next day. As I always say they're not doing bad by any objective means. But folk saying they should be aiming for or doing at least a million aren't really asking that much.
> 
> Though I do think AEW and especially NXT's ratings performance may be a case study of how what's popular amongst fans like us on boards like this, maybe just maybe don't translate as well as we'd think.


I think I've detailed my reasoning already; viewership pie reduced, wwe audience built over decades.
I don't watch other wrestling other than videos if there's a match or segment everybody is talking about. For some reason there's an Impact reaction show I get recommended & enjoy.
Aew better than wwe when I last watched.

Aew & wwe Wednesday show have disadvantage of going head to head with competition. If we can agree consensus here is Orange Cassidy is trash but by most metrics is most popular performer we'll have something in common.


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> I think I've detailed my reasoning already; viewership pie reduced, wwe audience built over decades.
> I don't watch other wrestling other than videos if there's a match or segment everybody is talking about. For some reason there's an Impact reaction show I get recommended & enjoy.
> Aew better than wwe when I last watched.
> 
> Aew & wwe Wednesday show have disadvantage of going head to head with competition. If we can agree consensus here is Orange Cassidy is trash but by most metrics is most popular performer we'll have something in common.


No, just no. Numbers wise when it comes to AEW what do you think are

Bad:
Sorta Bad:
Solid:
Sorta Good:
Great:

Numbers


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> No, just no. Numbers wise when it comes to AEW what do you think are
> 
> Bad:
> Sorta Bad:
> Solid:
> Sorta Good:
> Great:
> 
> Numbers


Bad: nxt demo
Sorta Bad: 0.25
Solid: 0.30
Good: 0.35
Great: over 0.40

Can be mitigating circumstances; 0.29 beating two NBA games during impeachment week was good


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> No, just no. Numbers wise when it comes to AEW what do you think are
> 
> Bad:
> Sorta Bad:
> Solid:
> Sorta Good:
> Great:
> 
> Numbers


You have given wayyyy too many options, @RapShepard . With the AEW diehards, there are only three numbers: “great”, “good”, and/or “ignore it”.


----------



## NathanMayberry

This should not surprise anyone. Orange Cassidy had a match right after and he caused me to turn off Dynamite, and its clear he did the same for many others.


----------



## Whoanma

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> @Whoanma
> 
> *
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1362726837374177280*


----------



## 3venflow

I mean we can argue back and forth what TNT is and would be happy with, but isn't the answer simply in the following:

*WarnerMedia has greenlit a second AEW show on one of its platforms (probably TNT or TBS)*

That is the most conclusive evidence we have that Warner has pleased with what AEW is delivering. It's relatively cheap for them and is one of their highest rating cable originals.

As for what TNT will or won't be happy with two or three years from now. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is the trend for live/same day TV ratings - sports included - not down, down, down in the USA? So 750k in 2023 may actually be better than 750k in 2021.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Whoanma said:


>


*Let's petition for Itoh vs Riho and break the internet 😏*


----------



## La Parka

The Definition of Technician said:


> You're just full of shit if you really don't think WWE fans have used football and competition as an excuse for YEARS.
> You're also full of shit if you keep denying how political drama/competition does impact rating, desperate enough to prove a non-existent point?
> 
> Like I said, there's been many bad shows or bad shows follow-up that got in the 700k range, you don't see excuses for it, and go back to the earlier days before the pandemic.
> Did you see people making excuses?
> If at this point your thick skull can't comprehend that there are stuff out there that can impact ratings besides the quality of the product, there's no point debating a biased AEW fans-hater. I'll tell you this again, try some objectivity.


You’re completely misrepresenting reality.

I’ll say this again. Please read it carefully before you yet again come back with some tired ass excuse as to why your favourite television show is watched by few people.

WWEs fan base is critical of their product. They admit that the product is flawed and the low ratings are a reflection of the bad product. They have never used weather, political happenings, sports or anything else as to why the ratings were CONSISTENTLY bad.

AEWs fan base is not critical at all and you saying they are is just a blatant lie. Please show me the posts from DC, Cass, Erick, sddollar, pippen or any AEW cultist where they admit that the low rating is because of bad booking, bad talent or anything else that would be a reflection of the product that AEW is producing. Everytime AEW has a bad ratings it’s because of some external force that has nothing to do with the brand that has Luther main event or a man dressed in a mascot outfit.


----------



## DaSlacker

Firefromthegods said:


> Pip it may be unreasonable now, but if they are still doing these numbers in 2023 or 4 it will be concerning


Not necessarily. I don't think anyone expects cable ratings to climb. It's a fading medium. Wrestling is underperforming somewhat from a live aspect. But the impact of the pandemic and regularly defeating a WWE show in both viewership and demo could be factored in as positives. As could being a provider of original content, every week, throughout 2020.

There's also the brand and asset building. AEW and their association with other brands and growing presence on social media. 

Look at it like this. Meltzer claims WWE will increase its rights fees from NBCUniversal in 2023. So more than 300 million per year. And that's based off a show with no direct wrestling competition and 1.8 million viewers today. If that holds true then collectively the AEW brand is undervalued at 45 million. Especially if all these working agreements develop.


----------



## The Wood

Mike E said:


> Good for AEW to remain in the top 5 for the night! TNT has to be happy to have a top 10 program every Wednesday night.


TNT only care about profits. TNT don’t give a shit if a show is on a gossip rag’s top five shows watched by cat owners if it doesn’t mean shit for ad revenue. 



Pippen94 said:


> I have him on ignore. Doesn't resort to name calling & abuse too often so won't be banned but does spread misinformation


I fight the spread of misinformation as best I can. 



Firefromthegods said:


> No. That's my ruling. Pippen94 asked me to get you lot to stop calling him a kid in private. I said I will but they are allowed to do it in rants.
> 
> As for why they were banned that's already been discussed ad nauseum
> 
> As for logic you still got shed and right and rap and boss. They're just way more centrist and balanced in their criticisms.
> 
> @Pippen94 No I didn't just pick 1 million because it looks pretty and is a nice round number. Given the size of America and the reach of their direct competition in the WWE they should be easily matching main roster numbers by now.
> 
> There's absolutely no excuse to get under a million. I don’t care if tnt are fine with that,
> 
> I don't want aew to be the new impact where they're just complacent and happy to just exist. I want aew to REALLY challenge WWE.
> 
> I want AEW to eventually be recognised like the WWE.
> 
> You may just be okay with aew never touring the world or being a recognisable brand or being synonymous with wrestling like WWE is but that doesn't mean the entire aew fanbase is.
> 
> Oh and no that doesn't mean I'm a hater and think they're failing or that I want them to fail or any other nonsense like that. It just means I want them to have the mentality of the skys the limit and not just rest on their laurels


For the record, I have never called Pippen a kid. Your criticisms of AEW here are good. 



Pippen94 said:


> There's no science behind what you're saying. You're just looked at smack down & said aew should do that. That's basically pulling number out of nowhere.
> 
> It ignores realities such as wwe brand existing nationally since about 1983 & has had far longer to build fanbase - this can be seen in considerably older average age of viewers.
> It ignores aew faces direct competition every week that we know from real data stops the show reaching a million or there abouts. How much would raw drop with competition??
> Also, cable medium is declining with aew at some points last year confounding trend of wwe & all live sports by actually growing just slightly.
> 
> TNT has everything to gain from company growing so their expectations should be realistic but also ambitious. Your expectations far exceed this.
> 
> If you touched on any of these issues & looked at views of vested parties you'd have a considered & informed opinion - you don't.


It’s not pulling a number out of nowhere. It’s taking a wrestling program’s number and using that as the barometer, which is not inappropriate.

I don’t know why people think that the WWE being a dinosaur is automatically a good thing for them. 



Randy Lahey said:


> AEW will be doing 1.1-1.2 mil viewers a week after USA cancels NXT.
> 
> Raw will be down to that number in 2 years.


I don’t know why people think that the Raw number is going to keep dropping past AEW’s number. If Raw drops, expect AEW to drop in a relative way. Maybe not as fast or as stark, but Raw won’t be getting 750k while AEW is still getting that number.


----------



## validreasoning

DaSlacker said:


> Not necessarily. I don't think anyone expects cable ratings to climb. It's a fading medium. Wrestling is underperforming somewhat from a live aspect. But the impact of the pandemic and regularly defeating a WWE show in both viewership and demo could be factored in as positives. As could being a provider of original content, every week, throughout 2020.
> 
> There's also the brand and asset building. AEW and their association with other brands and growing presence on social media.
> 
> Look at it like this. Meltzer claims WWE will increase its rights fees from NBCUniversal in 2023. So more than 300 million per year. And that's based off a show with no direct wrestling competition and 1.8 million viewers today. If that holds true then collectively the AEW brand is undervalued at 45 million. Especially if all these working agreements develop.


But it's costing TNT far more than 45m..

By same logic NXT should be in for huge tv rights rise because they are doing 1/3 viewers of Raw but that's not how tv works.


----------



## DaSlacker

validreasoning said:


> But it's costing TNT far more than 45m..
> 
> By same logic NXT should be in for huge tv rights rise because they are doing 1/3 viewers of Raw but that's not how tv works.


Not sure what the end number TNT is paying for AEW (per annum). All I read was 45 million per year. WWE got 265 million + whatever NXT is commanding ($30 at a reasonable estimate). NXT would be packaged with Raw because theoretically it compliments the package and asset building as streaming services take center stage, but doesn't rank high in the key demographics. AEW is itself a package deal - unlike NBC, Warner has 100% access to the franchise. It's growing in terms of creating more and more content. Then even more content if the tie-in's with other promotions develops. Of course all of this could collapse and they get booted off TNT/Warner Media. But if WWE content is that valuable then I fail to see how the AEW franchise isn't worth 50% more.


----------



## Klitschko

Kind of late to the party, but why are people blaming the shitty rating AEW got this week on the storm thats happening in the US when the storm has not affected the ratings of RAW or Smackdown this week at all?


----------



## yeahright2

Klitschko said:


> Kind of late to the party, but why are people blaming the shitty rating AEW got this week on the storm thats happening in the US when the storm has not affected the ratings of RAW or Smackdown this week at all?


It was the best people could come up with this week..


----------



## NathanMayberry

3venflow said:


> I mean we can argue back and forth what TNT is and would be happy with, but isn't the answer simply in the following:
> 
> *WarnerMedia has greenlit a second AEW show on one of its platforms (probably TNT or TBS)*
> 
> That is the most conclusive evidence we have that Warner has pleased with what AEW is delivering. It's relatively cheap for them and is one of their highest rating cable originals.
> 
> As for what TNT will or won't be happy with two or three years from now. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is the trend for live/same day TV ratings - sports included - not down, down, down in the USA? So 750k in 2023 may actually be better than 750k in 2021.


Its hilarious you guys say this.. yet so many are convinced NXT is gonna get cancelled despite NBCU having like 7 different WWE shows.


----------



## Not Lying

La Parka said:


> You’re completely misrepresenting reality.
> 
> I’ll say this again. Please read it carefully before you yet again come back with some tired ass excuse as to why your favourite television show is watched by few people.
> 
> *WWEs fan base is critical of their product. They admit that the product is flawed and the low ratings are a reflection of the bad product. They have never used weather, political happenings, sports or anything else as to why the ratings were CONSISTENTLY bad.*
> 
> AEWs fan base is not critical at all and you saying they are is just a blatant lie. Please show me the posts from DC, Cass, Erick, sddollar, pippen or any AEW cultist where they admit that the low rating is because of bad booking, bad talent or anything else that would be a reflection of the product that AEW is producing. Everytime AEW has a bad ratings it’s because of some external force that has nothing to do with the brand that has Luther main event or a man dressed in a mascot outfit.


That wasn't the point of whole this and you know it. You're also representing reality when I've seen people cry IN THIS THREAD about how we should consider RAW's football competition when it's lowest reach AEW's highs.

The point was that instead of an expected 850K you end up with a 750K on an episode when things happen in the real world and news are dominating the ratings. Is it such a hard concept to understand? Nobody's saying they will be scoring 1m+ (vs direct competition, at least) with what they are offering now, but to deny facts like other stuff on TV THAT USUALLY ISN'T are important considerations and eat away from their viewership is ridiculous. 
It's beyond ridiculous. One week you barely have any of the news shows in the top rankings, the next week riots break and you have 35/50 most watched shows all news, nd yet you come in here and expect it not to eat away at all from wrestling viewership. Ridiculous.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Klitschko said:


> Kind of late to the party, but why are people blaming the shitty rating AEW got this week on the storm thats happening in the US when the storm has not affected the ratings of RAW or Smackdown this week at all?


Because they don't research. Raw is down from a .79 to .57 (-28%), Smackdown down from .7 to .5 (-29%), and NXT down from .25 to .16 (-36%) from last years. AEW, .31 to .31, no change. If you want to factor in viewership as a whole, Raw down from 2,437,333 to 1,810,333, Smackdown down from 2,484,000 to 2,071,500 (-17%), Dynamite down from 893,000 to 747,000 (-16%), and NXT down 794,000 to 713,000 (-10%). 

Really the only excuse that can be made for anything is NXT had a huge lead in and, as the QHs show, it dropped dramatically by the end of the first hour which skewed their #s up. But those viewers weren't AEW viewers, so what is the point of an excuse?

Bottom line though is that a year ago Raw drew 1,544,363 more viewers than AEW, this year only 1,063,333. Last year Raw drew .48 more in the rating, this year it is only .26. 

So in one year AEW has cut Raws lead in the demo in 1/2 and viewership by 1/3rd. The same rating last year got AEW 5th, this year 4th, so clearly TV overall is down, that is why the same rating got AEW a higher placing this year. 

Doesn't feel shitty at all. Again, no understanding why they would need to make any excuses for success.


----------



## .christopher.

TKO Wrestling said:


> Because they don't research. Raw is down from a .79 to .57 (-28%), Smackdown down from .7 to .5 (-29%), and NXT down from .25 to .16 (-36%) from last years. AEW, .31 to .31, no change. If you want to factor in viewership as a whole, Raw down from 2,437,333 to 1,810,333, Smackdown down from 2,484,000 to 2,071,500 (-17%), Dynamite down from 893,000 to 747,000 (-16%), and NXT down 794,000 to 713,000 (-10%).
> 
> Really the only excuse that can be made for anything is NXT had a huge lead in and, as the QHs show, it dropped dramatically by the end of the first hour which skewed their #s up. But those viewers weren't AEW viewers, so what is the point of an excuse?
> 
> Bottom line though is that a year ago Raw drew 1,544,363 more viewers than AEW, this year only 1,063,333. Last year Raw drew .48 more in the rating, this year it is only .26.
> 
> So in one year AEW has cut Raws lead in the demo in 1/2 and viewership by 1/3rd. The same rating last year got AEW 5th, this year 4th, so clearly TV overall is down, that is why the same rating got AEW a higher placing this year.
> 
> Doesn't feel shitty at all. Again, no understanding why they would need to make any excuses for success.


No. AEW hasn't done anything.

You're acting like AEW is catching up to RAW when it's RAW sinking down to AEW's level. Saw this coming a mile away.


----------



## The Wood

yeahright2 said:


> It was the best people could come up with this week..


Raw even went up, I think.




NathanMayberry said:


> Its hilarious you guys say this.. yet so many are convinced NXT is gonna get cancelled despite NBCU having like 7 different WWE shows.


Yeah, it’s kind of funny how TNT must be in love with AEW to be featuring two shows that cost $45 million when NBCU is spending upwards of $265 million per year on WWE programming but are just waiting to cancel them. 



The Definition of Technician said:


> That wasn't the point of whole this and you know it. You're also representing reality when I've seen people cry IN THIS THREAD about how we should consider RAW's football competition when it's lowest reach AEW's highs.
> 
> The point was that instead of an expected 850K you end up with a 750K on an episode when things happen in the real world and news are dominating the ratings. Is it such a hard concept to understand? Nobody's saying they will be scoring 1m+ (vs direct competition, at least) with what they are offering now, but to deny facts like other stuff on TV THAT USUALLY ISN'T are important considerations and eat away from their viewership is ridiculous.
> It's beyond ridiculous. One week you barely have any of the news shows in the top rankings, the next week riots break and you have 35/50 most watched shows all news, nd yet you come in here and expect it not to eat away at all from wrestling viewership. Ridiculous.


Those responds are usually in retaliation to the excuses AEW fanboys have for AEW. Raw will be mocked and then someone will bring up what’s good for the goose. We’re talking generalisations here, but you’ve taken this largely out of context.

Even guys like Brandon Thurston are coming out now and popping the “News disrupts people’s habits” myth bubble. It doesn’t. Stop with this. And yes, people do act as if AEW would be batting over 1 million if it weren’t for the news, sport, NXT and the weather. People can watch the news whenever. They don’t have to sacrifice their originally scheduled programming anymore.

*More people watching the news doesn’t mean fewer people watching wrestling.*


----------



## Not Lying

The Wood said:


> Those responds are usually in retaliation to the excuses AEW fanboys have for AEW. Raw will be mocked and then someone will bring up what’s good for the goose. We’re talking generalisations here, but you’ve taken this largely out of context.
> 
> Even guys like Brandon Thurston are coming out now and popping the “News disrupts people’s habits” myth bubble. It doesn’t. Stop with this. And yes, people do act as if *AEW would be batting over 1 million if it weren’t for the news, sport, NXT and the weather.* People can watch the news whenever. They don’t have to sacrifice their originally scheduled programming anymore.
> 
> *More people watching the news doesn’t mean fewer people watching wrestling.*


You're talking genenralisation...at least you realize it  


lmao.. way to bury yourself, because considering they did do 1m+ viewers unopposed and under "normal" conditions, there is no reason to think they wouldn't do it again. News and NXT do eat away from their live viewership.. I swear it's like talking to a wall with you people insisting on pretending to know what affects viewership when you throw logic and just observation out the window.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

.christopher. said:


> No. AEW hasn't done anything.
> 
> You're acting like AEW is catching up to RAW when it's RAW sinking down to AEW's level. Saw this coming a mile away.


Didn't say they did much, although they did. But 4-6 years from now it will be extremely interesting whether you want to admit it or not.


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> You're talking genenralisation...at least you realize it
> 
> 
> lmao.. way to bury yourself, because considering they did do 1m+ viewers unopposed and under "normal" conditions, there is no reason to think they wouldn't do it again. News and NXT do eat away from their live viewership.. I swear it's like talking to a wall with you people insisting on pretending to know what affects viewership when you throw logic and just observation out the window.


I’m responding to your generalisations, champ. Even those sympathetic towards AEW are backing away from the news excuse, _because it’s just not true._

Huh? So you _are_ saying they would get 1 million views if the obstacles AEW’s mediocrity were removed? You were just saying that no one was saying that. Which is it?

We weren’t talking NXT. You’ve just tried to sneak that in lol. We were talking the news. It doesn’t hurt AEW much at all.


----------



## La Parka

The Definition of Technician said:


> That wasn't the point of whole this and you know it. You're also representing reality when I've seen people cry IN THIS THREAD about how we should consider RAW's football competition when it's lowest reach AEW's highs.
> 
> The point was that instead of an expected 850K you end up with a 750K on an episode when things happen in the real world and news are dominating the ratings. Is it such a hard concept to understand? Nobody's saying they will be scoring 1m+ (vs direct competition, at least) with what they are offering now, but to deny facts like other stuff on TV THAT USUALLY ISN'T are important considerations and eat away from their viewership is ridiculous.
> It's beyond ridiculous. One week you barely have any of the news shows in the top rankings, the next week riots break and you have 35/50 most watched shows all news, nd yet you come in here and expect it not to eat away at all from wrestling viewership. Ridiculous.


Where in this thread is anyone saying that a football game is the ONLY reason why Raw had a bad rating? AEW fans would use a football game as the ONLY reason as to why AEW had a low rating, while WWE fans will admit that a certain show had a low rating partly because of another event but would still overall say the main reason behind the low ratings are because the show is dog shit and has been dog shit for many years.

The same cannot be said for AEW fans. Sure politics/ sports can somewhat hurt the ratings of show but AEW fans act like there is no internal problem with AEW and the program is great when the reality is, the reason why AEW has bad ratings is the same reasons why Raw gets bad ratings. The shows are poor excuses for wrestling programs.


----------



## Pippen94

La Parka said:


> Where in this thread is anyone saying that a football game is the ONLY reason why Raw had a bad rating? AEW fans would use a football game as the ONLY reason as to why AEW had a low rating, while WWE fans will admit that a certain show had a low rating partly because of another event but would still overall say the main reason behind the low ratings are because the show is dog shit and has been dog shit for many years.
> 
> The same cannot be said for AEW fans. Sure politics/ sports can somewhat hurt the ratings of show but AEW fans act like there is no internal problem with AEW and the program is great when the reality is, the reason why AEW has bad ratings is the same reasons why Raw gets bad ratings. The shows are poor excuses for wrestling programs.


Just on this topic why do you think raw has been shedding viewers at an amazing rate for past few years??


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Just on this topic why do you think raw has been shedding viewers at an amazing rate for past few years??


It’s a combination of the show being shit, it being three hours of shit, cable cutting, audience fatigue, other mediums coming in, and other entertainment being preferred. None of this is a big revelation. But most of it is true with AEW too — it’s just not three hours.


----------



## MoxAsylum

Two Sheds said:


> People actually saying this is a good rating two weeks out from a PPV. Get the goofs off TV. No more Trashidy, no more Luther, no more Marko, no more Jelly. Empty the trash can and put a new liner in. It is time to bring someone in who knows how to produce and lay out a television show.


Agreed, the geeks are killing the ratings, the cross promotion crap is too...Also i never wanna see trash like Nyla and Sonny in TV again either


----------



## Pippen94

Women's tournament trending about #12 today


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Women's tournament trending about #12 today


In what context? You just throw numbers out there without details or evidence. Here are the top trends currently. By the way Papa Shango is #25. Where is this "popular" tournament?










Here are the top 20 for the past 24 hours:


----------



## El Hammerstone

Trending doesn't matter because casual fans don't exist, or something


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> In what context? You just throw numbers out there without details or evidence. Here are the top trends currently. By the way Papa Shango is #25. Where is this "popular" tournament?
> 
> View attachment 97775
> 
> 
> Here are the top 20 for the past 24 hours:
> 
> View attachment 97776


Could've phrased it better - tournament peaked about #12



El Hammerstone said:


> Trending doesn't matter because casual fans don't exist, or something


You speaking in some weird code??


----------



## The Wood

Lol, well, that claim was exposed.


----------



## Prized Fighter

Are people ready to admit that NXT isn't developmental anymore? WWE is creating a developmental show that will feed in to NXT. That isn't to say that AEW shouldn't (and has mostly) beat NXT weekly. It just shows that the AEW going up against "WWE developmental" show is just not a true statement. There are many other reasons as well, but having a feeder program is a pretty obvious one.


----------



## Mr316

Prized Fighter said:


> Are people ready to admit that NXT isn't developmental anymore? WWE is creating a developmental show that will feed in to NXT. That isn't to say that AEW shouldn't (and has mostly) beat NXT weekly. It just shows that the AEW going up against "WWE developmental" show is just not a true statement. There are many other reasons as well, but having a feeder program is a pretty obvious one.


It’s still WWE’s “C” show. They could litteraly start kicking AEW’s ass next week if they wanted to by having all their top talents on the show for whatever reason.


----------



## yeahright2

Mr316 said:


> It’s still WWE’s “C” show. They could litteraly start kicking AEW’s ass next week if they wanted to by having all their top talents on the show for whatever reason.


That´s what I was just about to say.
As long as WWE and everyone else talks about being "called up" to the main roster, NXT is a developmental. And it´s still where unknown talent make their national tv debut.


----------



## Pippen94

yeahright2 said:


> That´s what I was just about to say.
> As long as WWE and everyone else talks about being "called up" to the main roster, NXT is a developmental. And it´s still where unknown talent make their national tv debut.


Aew is keeping wwe Wednesday show as third brand by kicking it's ass every week. That's all.


----------



## yeahright2

Pippen94 said:


> Aew is keeping wwe Wednesday show as third brand by kicking it's ass every week. That's all.


aww.. that´s cute..


----------



## TKO Wrestling

MoxAsylum said:


> Agreed, the geeks are killing the ratings, the cross promotion crap is too...Also i never wanna see trash like Nyla and Sonny in TV again either


Curious whats wrong with Nyla. Every division except lightweight divisions should have a large monster type.


----------



## DaSlacker

NXT is way more than a development thesedays. It's more of a WWE spin-off and super indy.


----------



## Pippen94

yeahright2 said:


> aww.. that´s cute..


Good argument. Wednesday show is wwe brand with same channel & timeslot as raw. In same time aew established itself & stars from scratch. 
Going head to head hurts both shows but aew clearly putting more of a hurt on rival.


----------



## Brad Boyd

Pippen94 said:


> Good argument. Wednesday show is wwe brand with same channel & timeslot as raw. In same time aew established itself & stars from scratch.
> Going head to head hurts both shows but aew clearly putting more of a hurt on rival.


Nxt is wwes developmental brand. Aew beating them isn't saying much. Lol


----------



## Pippen94

Brad Boyd said:


> Nxt is wwes developmental brand. Aew beating them isn't saying much. Lol


Aew dominance keeps wwe Wednesday show as weak third brand.


----------



## Brad Boyd

Pippen94 said:


> Aew dominance keeps wwe Wednesday show as weak third brand.


You're starting to remind me of JR bragging about kicking NXTs butt lol Like I said it's not that big of an accomplishment but at least AEW is #2 behind WWEs main brands in engagement and ratings.


----------



## yeahright2

Pippen94 said:


> Good argument. Wednesday show is wwe brand with same channel & timeslot as raw. In same time aew established itself & stars from scratch.
> Going head to head hurts both shows but aew clearly putting more of a hurt on rival.


when you completely ignore what @Mr316 said about how WWE could bring major stars to NXT and beat AEW if they wanted, just because it doesn´t fit your narrative, then that´s really all there is to say.


----------



## Brad Boyd

yeahright2 said:


> when you completely ignore what @Mr316 said about how WWE could bring major stars to NXT and beat AEW if they wanted, just because it doesn´t fit your narrative, then that´s really all there is to say.


All of NXTs major stars don't get presented as such anyway. Kross isn't doing anything remarkable but he will be written to do more on the main roster. NXTs purpose is to develop talent, not to have other competition. So AEW beating NXT is not an accomplishment worth noting. JR and others in the company bragging about this supposed victory is quite embarrassing lol


----------



## Pippen94

yeahright2 said:


> when you completely ignore what @Mr316 said about how WWE could bring major stars to NXT and beat AEW if they wanted, just because it doesn´t fit your narrative, then that´s really all there is to say.


Edge appearance resulted in 0.15 rating so keep trying.

TNA had hogan, flair, Foley, young sting, young hardys but never did business aew has done. Stars don't equal success.

Stop making excuses for wwe.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Brad Boyd said:


> All of NXTs major stars don't get presented as such anyway. Kross isn't doing anything remarkable but he will be written to do more on the main roster. NXTs purpose is to develop talent, not to have other competition. So AEW beating NXT is not an accomplishment worth noting. JR and others in the company bragging about this supposed victory is quite embarrassing lol


NXT hasn't been really a developmental at all in years. Last time I could say that was maybe 2014-15.

Now it's treated basically like a 3rd brand, remember how they advertised it during that Survivor Series PPV? If anything, it's WWE's version of a hot indy promotion with the guys they used and how they have more focus on the in-ring aspect than Raw or Smackdown. Plus, most of the talent is plenty experienced as wrestlers on their main roster. I still enjoy it overall for what it is, but if you want their true developmental, that was NXT's Florida circuit, which will most likely be made into a new version of EVOLVE.


----------



## Pippen94

Brad Boyd said:


> All of NXTs major stars don't get presented as such anyway. Kross isn't doing anything remarkable but he will be written to do more on the main roster. NXTs purpose is to develop talent, not to have other competition. So AEW beating NXT is not an accomplishment worth noting. JR and others in the company bragging about this supposed victory is quite embarrassing lol


Wwe Wednesday show just features all the best free agents they out bid aew for. 

No, company not purposely holding ppl like kross back. If creative is poor it's because creative is poor. That explains declining ratings across all brands.

Yeah, destroying the richest combat sports company which has ever existed on a weekly basis is nothing. What have you accomplished?!


----------



## Brad Boyd

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> NXT hasn't been really a developmental at all in years. Last time I could say that was maybe 2014-15.
> 
> Now it's treated basically like a 3rd brand, remember how they advertised it during that Survivor Series PPV? If anything, it's WWE's version of a hot indy promotion with the guys they used and how they have more focus on the in-ring aspect than Raw or Smackdown. Plus, most of the talent is plenty experienced as wrestlers on their main roster. I still enjoy it overall for what it is, but if you want their true developmental, that was NXT's Florida circuit, which will most likely be made into a new version of EVOLVE.


It's been labelled as their developmental territory for years. They just dropped the label so they could use it as a brand also. How many people constantly come and go and get sent to the main roster? That's one of the main purposes of NXT; to build stars and make them ready for the main roster.


----------



## 3venflow

Brad Boyd said:


> That's one of the main purposes of NXT; to build stars and make them ready for the main roster.


Someone should tell Adam Cole this.


----------



## Pippen94

Brad Boyd said:


> It's been labelled as their developmental territory for years. They just dropped the label so they could use it as a brand also. How many people constantly come and go and get sent to the main roster? That's one of the main purposes of NXT; to build stars and make them ready for the main roster.


If you still think that's case where have you been for past two years??


----------



## Dr. Middy

Brad Boyd said:


> It's been labelled as their developmental territory for years. They just dropped the label so they could use it as a brand also. How many people constantly come and go and get sent to the main roster? That's one of the main purposes of NXT; to build stars and make them ready for the main roster.


It hasn't been used for that purpose nowhere near as much the last few years. I don't see what a good amount of the roster is even doing there then if they are supposed to be getting ready for the main roster, when honestly a lot of them seem to be doing better on TV in NXT than guys on the main roster and were more than ready to be moved up, while a good chunk of the women in NXT are already better than a lot of the women on the main roster. 

There are some bright spots where they actually did develop people well for the main roster, like Bianca for example, but it really is just indy WWE. It is really different than it used to be 5 years ago or so.


----------



## Shock Street

Pippen94 said:


> If you still think that's case where have you been for past two years??


Did they not move Keith Lee up like 3 months ago?


----------



## Pippen94

Shock Street said:


> Did they not move Keith Lee up like 3 months ago?


They had him go over at survivor series representing brand.


----------



## RapShepard

NXT is certainly not developmental anymore and is a legit 3rd brand. AEW does beat the WWE's 3rd brand, though in context the show they beat also airs on the Network the next day so less incentive to watch live. Though that's not AEW's fault.


----------



## Dr. Middy

RapShepard said:


> NXT is certainly not developmental anymore and is a legit 3rd brand. AEW does beat the WWE's 3rd brand, though in context the show they beat also airs on the Network the next day so less incentive to watch live. Though that's not AEW's fault.


Yup this is how I do it. AEW always live viewing and I just catch up on NXT later on since it's easier to do (and I hate flipping between shows lol).

At this point them beating NXT isn't a huge accomplishment either. I'd be really worried if they lost to them with any relative frequency


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> NXT is certainly not developmental anymore and is a legit 3rd brand. AEW does beat the WWE's 3rd brand, though in context the show they beat also airs on the Network the next day so less incentive to watch live. Though that's not AEW's fault.


..& you can DVR dynamite or find show on YouTube


----------



## Pippen94

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> Yup this is how I do it. AEW always live viewing and I just catch up on NXT later on since it's easier to do (and I hate flipping between shows lol).
> 
> At this point them beating NXT isn't a huge accomplishment either. I'd be really worried if they lost to them with any relative frequency


So many wwe excuses; show is just developmental, available on network, nobody booked to get over... Just stop


----------



## Dr. Middy

Pippen94 said:


> So many wwe excuses; show is just developmental, available on network, nobody booked to get over... Just stop


Huh???

Do you think I'm like against AEW in some way? I prefer it over NXT the vast majority of the time and really enjoy the show. I just think that WWE really aren't trying too much with NXT to beat AEW at this point, that's all. If I'm AEW I would focus more on attracting people to increase their overall viewership and attention and pretty much ignore NXT entirely.


----------



## Pippen94

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> Huh???
> 
> Do you think I'm like against AEW in some way? I prefer it over NXT the vast majority of the time and really enjoy the show. I just think that WWE really aren't trying too much with NXT to beat AEW at this point, that's all. If I'm AEW I would focus more on attracting people to increase their overall viewership and attention and pretty much ignore NXT entirely.


I don't think aew pays any much attention to wwe Wednesday show as it has all but destroyed it for the last year.

Wwe has tried many things to get show over including bringing in star names, having Charlotte hold title & countering special aew shows including splitting their own special over two weeks to match.

They could bring in other big names but that would probably result in another aew victory & make company look even worse.


----------



## Prized Fighter

How many wrestlers from NXT need the performance center for anything other then staying in ring shape or to work out? Who exactly is "developing", that couldn't do the same thing on Raw or Smackdown?

Finn Balor, Adam Cole, the rest of Undisputed Era, Karrion Kross, Io Shirai, Rhea Ripley, Dakota Kai, Johnny Gargano, Candice Lerae, Pete Dunne, Grizzald Young Vets, MSK, Oney/Birch. That doesn't even include the people in NXT UK and I am sure I missed some. Do you honestly think any of these people are going in to the performance center everyday to develop. Most of them have more experience then half the main roster. Hell, even Pat McAfee could be on the main roster right now and not look out of place. This is why guys like Damian Priest, Matt Riddle and Keith Lee can just step on to Raw and look find (depending on booking). Is anyone seriously going to make the case that Finn Balor is a developmental project? He is former Universal Champion and 2x Intercontinental Champion. He was put there because AEW was going up against NXT. You guys can shit on AEW for booking decisions, but don't be blind and act like NXT is a developmental show. Your not watching green talent. They do the same stuff as Raw/Smackdown, but don't have the brand recognition of those shows and have competition in AEW.


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> ..& you can DVR dynamite or find show on YouTube


This isn't the gotcha you think it is lol


----------



## ProjectGargano

NXT is developmental? It was. Now, certainly it isn´t.

Next week:
Johnny Gargano vs Dexter Lumis (Gargano is at development?, Dexter Lumis with almost 40 years in developing?)
Santos Escobar vs Karrion Kross (King Cuerno vs a 35 years veteran)


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> This isn't the gotcha you think it is lol


Yeah it is because network won't be close to live number. You don't have network number perchance??


----------



## The Wood

Prized Fighter said:


> Are people ready to admit that NXT isn't developmental anymore? WWE is creating a developmental show that will feed in to NXT. That isn't to say that AEW shouldn't (and has mostly) beat NXT weekly. It just shows that the AEW going up against "WWE developmental" show is just not a true statement. There are many other reasons as well, but having a feeder program is a pretty obvious one.


Latest I heard was a different style of show. NXT is still a “feeder” program. You start off there, get polished up, develop a gimmick, move onto Raw and SmackDown.

It is what it is. They’ve got the third tier show on the third tier night with the lesser known talent. They’re obviously not the priority and far from the most promoted entity under the WWE umbrella



Pippen94 said:


> Good argument. Wednesday show is wwe brand with same channel & timeslot as raw. In same time aew established itself & stars from scratch.
> Going head to head hurts both shows but aew clearly putting more of a hurt on rival.


Hahaha, this is rich! You’ll also say that AEW being on a channel with the same availability as USA doesn’t put the same expectations on Dynamite as Raw.

How did AEW establish Chris Jericho, Jon Moxley, Cody Rhodes and Sting from scratch? And it’s not like they are doing significantly better. The 1.4 million people who watch on Wednesdays are often split right in half.

NXT has served its purpose of capping the potential audience of AEW and ensuring Raw and SmackDown remain the most profitable entities in wrestling. It’s not about who gets more viewers on Wednesday.

The “key demo” is archaic and Meltzer spin — cable is not the best way to reach young audiences. You take what you can on contemporary cable. Social change has also shifted the emphasis on demos. Other information is more important to advertisers. A lot of NXT’s “key demo” would be iceberged on the WWE Network. The idea that AEW is more popular with young people is a lie designed to enhance the image of AEW while ignoring logical factors.


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Yeah it is because network won't be close to live number. You don't have network number perchance??


Your argument doesn't make sense on your end because NXT can also be DVR'd and have clips found on YouTube. But you're also ignoring that having the ability to catch NXT on the Network gives another reason to not be rushed to watch it live.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> Your argument doesn't make sense on your end because NXT can also be DVR'd and have clips found on YouTube. But you're also ignoring that having the ability to catch NXT on the Network gives another reason to not be rushed to watch it live.


Wwe marks making plenty of excuses - you can watch aew after with DVR too!!

Wrestling is live event so audience watching after is greatly reduced. The better show will always get most live viewers. Proportionally much less watch after the fact.


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> ..& you can DVR dynamite or find show on YouTube


This above is you arguing for unaccounted viewers for Dynamite through fragmented viewing


Pippen94 said:


> Wwe marks making plenty of excuses - you can watch aew after with DVR too!!
> 
> Wrestling is live event so audience watching after is greatly reduced. The better show will always get most live viewers. Proportionally much less watch after the fact.


Now NXT being on the Network isn't AEW's problem. But it does mean the potential for the NXT audience to be more fragmented is higher because there are more ways to watch it as opposed to Dynamite in the US.


----------



## yeahright2

Pippen94 said:


> Edge appearance resulted in 0.15 rating so keep trying.
> 
> TNA had hogan, flair, Foley, young sting, young hardys but never did business aew has done. Stars don't equal success.
> 
> Stop making excuses for wwe.


What? do you really think TNA never did what AEW has done? Or cant´you remember that far back? Maybe you never watched it?
TNA was a legit concern for WWE at one time. And I´m not even talking about the Hogan/Bischoff era (Which btw kicked off with a rating of 2.2 million viewers, which was more than Raw or SD did the same week).

WWE fired talent just for going to a TNA event as private persons.. They haven´t fired Adam Cole for being shown on BTE or wherever it was he made a guest appearance.


----------



## Prized Fighter

RapShepard said:


> Your argument doesn't make sense on your end because NXT can also be DVR'd and have clips found on YouTube. But you're also ignoring that having the ability to catch NXT on the Network gives another reason to not be rushed to watch it live.


Watching NXT on the WWE Network or DVR are the same thing. Both give you immediate access to the product you missed watching. If people wanted to watch NXT more they would and just DVR Dynamite. Having the WWE Network doesn't give you additional incentive to miss NXT and watch Dynamite live. If there was a delay to when Dynamite could go up, I would agree, but that isn't the case.


----------



## Klitschko

Pippen94 said:


> Good argument. Wednesday show is wwe brand with same channel & timeslot as raw. In same time aew established itself & stars from scratch.
> Going head to head hurts both shows but aew clearly putting more of a hurt on rival.


Ambrose, Rusev, Jericho, Sting, Cody, Omega, Harper sure are all guys that AEW built up from scratch. Man it would be embarrassing if AEW wasn't beating NXT with the roster they have. That's a RAW/Smackdown level roster, not NXT.


----------



## Prosper

When is NXT switching nights so that we can see the real numbers?


----------



## RapShepard

Prized Fighter said:


> Watching NXT on the WWE Network or DVR are the same thing. Both give you immediate access to the product you missed watching. If people wanted to watch NXT more they would and just DVR Dynamite. Having the WWE Network doesn't give you additional incentive to miss NXT and watch Dynamite live. If there was a delay to when Dynamite could go up, I would agree, but that isn't the case.


No it's not the same thing you can have Cable without having the ability of DVR


----------



## Mr316

Prosper said:


> When is NXT switching nights so that we can see the real numbers?


It wouldn’t change a damn thing. Maybe 100k more watching that’s it.


----------



## Prized Fighter

RapShepard said:


> No it's not the same thing you can have Cable without having the ability of DVR


It is the same thing for those people that have both. A lot more people have DVR then the WWE Network. In fact over 70% of US households with a cable service have DVR. Also since you can DVR NXT, the WWE Network doesn't even give you an incentive to use that platform to watch NXT later. The amount of people who have the WWE Network, but don't have DVR is way smaller then the inverse.


----------



## RapShepard

Prized Fighter said:


> It is the same thing for those people that have both. A lot more people have DVR then the WWE Network. In fact over 70% of US households with a cable service have DVR. Also since you can DVR NXT, the WWE Network doesn't even give you an incentive to use that platform to watch NXT later. The amount of people who have the WWE Network, but don't have DVR is way smaller then the inverse.


 That does nothing to change the fact there's still more ways to catch NXT later than there are to catch Dynamite later in the US. That doesn't mean NXT would beat them without the Network. But if considerations for why AEW gets the numbers they, the same can be done for NXT.


----------



## Brad Boyd

Pippen94 said:


> If you still think that's case where have you been for past two years??


The relevancy of your question, please?


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> Lol, well, that claim was exposed.


Yep, @Pippen94 exposed his valid claim pretty well


----------



## Prized Fighter

RapShepard said:


> That does nothing to change the fact there's still more ways to catch NXT later than there are to catch Dynamite later in the US. That doesn't mean NXT would beat them without the Network. But if considerations for why AEW gets the numbers they, the same can be done for NXT.


Yes, in terms of physical platforms there are more ways to catch NXT later. However, the amount of people that have the WWE Network and don't have a DVR is so small that it wouldn't make a material difference. If you have both options, then you will still choose the show you like better and watch that live. Your not going to wait to watch NXT if you prefer it over AEW and have the DVR option. Technically, you wouldn't even need a DVR if you have an on-demand service that comes with your cable and most do. You may have to wait until the next day to view the show, but that likely the case for a lot of people anyway.


----------



## RapShepard

Prized Fighter said:


> Yes, in terms of physical platforms there are more ways to catch NXT later. However, the amount of people that have the WWE Network and don't have a DVR is so small that it wouldn't make a material difference. If you have both options, then you will still choose the show you like better and watch that live. Your not going to wait to watch NXT if you prefer it over AEW and have the DVR option. Technically, you wouldn't even need a DVR if you have an on-demand service that comes with your cable and most do. You may have to wait until the next day to view the show, but that likely the case for a lot of people anyway.


I don't think it's some large "if we include the network views NXT is now winning in a landslide" type shit. But I do think the majority of NXT and AEW watchers would have the Network as the fan base is really similar and the gap would be smaller. 

NXT's biggest appeal was it felt it felt like an alternative to WWE gear towards "real" wrestling fans despite it being apart of the company. AEW kind of easily steals that audience by aiming at the same audience, but being a separate entity from WWE.


----------



## Pippen94

Klitschko said:


> Ambrose, Rusev, Jericho, Sting, Cody, Omega, Harper sure are all guys that AEW built up from scratch. Man it would be embarrassing if AEW wasn't beating NXT with the roster they have. That's a RAW/Smackdown level roster, not NXT.


Same ppl say Moxley & Cody aren't draws.

Meanwhile Orange Cassidy most consistent ratings draw


----------



## Pippen94

yeahright2 said:


> What? do you really think TNA never did what AEW has done? Or cant´you remember that far back? Maybe you never watched it?
> TNA was a legit concern for WWE at one time. And I´m not even talking about the Hogan/Bischoff era (Which btw kicked off with a rating of 2.2 million viewers, which was more than Raw or SD did the same week).
> 
> WWE fired talent just for going to a TNA event as private persons.. They haven´t fired Adam Cole for being shown on BTE or wherever it was he made a guest appearance.


If you don't know stuff like this you probably shouldn't be posting here; TNA largest USA crowd is about 6,000. Biggest ppv did 55-60k about half what aew always does.
TNA never a top ranked cable show like aew finishing #4 this week.


----------



## Klitschko

Pippen94 said:


> Same ppl say Moxley & Cody aren't draws.
> 
> Meanwhile Orange Cassidy most consistent ratings draw


Those people are idiots. 




Pippen94 said:


> If you don't know stuff like this you probably shouldn't be posting here; TNA largest USA crowd is about 6,000. Biggest ppv did 55-60k about half what aew always does.
> TNA never a top ranked cable show like aew finishing #4 this week.


Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't AEW ppv buyrates 100k or so in total, while those 55-60k from TNA were always just domestic buyrates?

Anyways, when it comes to ppv, I'm a lot more impressed with AEW then I ever was with TNA. Paying 50 bucks for a ppv in this day and age is a lot more impressive then when TNA was around.


----------



## La Parka

TNA often beat WWE’s third brand (ECW) in the ratings. Beating NXT is nothing to beat your chest about.


----------



## Pippen94

La Parka said:


> TNA often beat WWE’s third brand (ECW) in the ratings. Beating NXT is nothing to beat your chest about.


Those shows head to head?? No huh??

Never among top shows on cable, never did live or ppv business.


----------



## yeahright2

Pippen94 said:


> If you don't know stuff like this you probably shouldn't be posting here; TNA largest USA crowd is about 6,000. Biggest ppv did 55-60k about half what aew always does.
> TNA never a top ranked cable show like aew finishing #4 this week.


So instead of an actual comeback you start spouting numbers about crowdsize and PPVs which really isn´t the debate you and I are having..
Maybe it´s past your bedtime.


----------



## La Parka

Pippen94 said:


> Those shows head to head?? No huh??
> 
> Never among top shows on cable, never did live or ppv business.


My point isn’t hyping up TNA for beating WWEECW. My point is that shitty products will often beat WWEs third brand and bragging about beating a show that Vince McMahon probably couldn’t name 5 wrestlers on is not something to be celebrated.


AEWs ppv buys while better than TNA are nothing to brag about. TNA had monthly PPV's when they were at their peak. AEW has 4 a year, which seems like a reasonable purchase to anyone who follows the product. The numbers for AEW ppv are like 100k, December to dismember almost did that and its widely considered one the worst PPV's of all time and it was a PPV for WWE's third brand. KSI and Logn Paul boxing sold 10x that and their audience would be more likely to watch it illegally. 

Which is why I say this: AEW is not a top cable show. It is a niche show with a niche audience. They have no footing in the modern day zeitgeist and probably never will because they (much like their fanbase) don't believe that there's any casual fan looking for a new program to watch. I mean its fine to be the fan of the punk band that plays in bars and deep down you never want them to become mainstream and "cool" but lets not come to the ratings thread and pretend like AEW is this big success because they have had slightly more success than TNA.


----------



## Pippen94

yeahright2 said:


> So instead of an actual comeback you start spouting numbers about crowdsize and PPVs which really isn´t the debate you and I are having..
> Maybe it´s past your bedtime.


No, you claimed TNA did bigger business but I proved by every main metric that is false.
You responded again with petulant remark. You don't offer much in this topic.



La Parka said:


> My point isn’t hyping up TNA for beating WWEECW. My point is that shitty products will often beat WWEs third brand and bragging about beating a show that Vince McMahon probably couldn’t name 5 wrestlers on is not something to be celebrated.
> 
> 
> AEWs ppv buys while better than TNA are nothing to brag about. TNA had monthly PPV's when they were at their peak. AEW has 4 a year, which seems like a reasonable purchase to anyone who follows the product. The numbers for AEW ppv are like 100k, December to dismember almost did that and its widely considered one the worst PPV's of all time and it was a PPV for WWE's third brand. KSI and Logn Paul boxing sold 10x that and their audience would be more likely to watch it illegally.
> 
> Which is why I say this: AEW is not a top cable show. It is a niche show with a niche audience. They have no footing in the modern day zeitgeist and probably never will because they (much like their fanbase) don't believe that there's any casual fan looking for a new program to watch. I mean its fine to be the fan of the punk band that plays in bars and deep down you never want them to become mainstream and "cool" but lets not come to the ratings thread and pretend like AEW is this big success because they have had slightly more success than TNA.


You've countered hard evidence with opinion. Show isn't top rated but yet it finished #4 in a down week last entry.

ECW ppv from 1999 was before streaming & illegal streaming so you'd expect quite big number tho aew still got it beat. Comparing buys from that time is like comparing TV ratings from that time to today or CD sales. You know? Irrelevant!


----------



## La Parka

Pippen94 said:


> ECW ppv from 1999 was before streaming & illegal streaming so you'd expect quite big number tho aew still got it beat. Comparing buys from that time is like comparing TV ratings from that time to today or CD sales. You know? Irrelevant!











December to Dismember (2006) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Pippen94

La Parka said:


> December to Dismember (2006) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


Why would you compare that?? Wwe product has nothing to do with matter at hand


----------



## yeahright2

Pippen94 said:


> No, you claimed TNA did bigger business but I proved by every main metric that is false.
> You responded again with petulant remark. You don't offer much in this topic.
> 
> 
> 
> You've countered hard evidence with opinion. Show isn't top rated but yet it finished #4 in a down week last entry.
> 
> ECW ppv from 1999 was before streaming & illegal streaming so you'd expect quite big number tho aew still got it beat. Comparing buys from that time is like comparing TV ratings from that time to today or CD sales. You know? Irrelevant!


I never claimed TNA did bigger business, I said WWE saw them as potential competition. There´s a huge difference.
Jeez.. AEW loyalists.. Besides, you jumped in on a post I made, so try to argue what I said instead of trying to spin it in a different direction. 
You don't offer much in this topic.


----------



## The Wood

Prized Fighter said:


> Watching NXT on the WWE Network or DVR are the same thing. Both give you immediate access to the product you missed watching. If people wanted to watch NXT more they would and just DVR Dynamite. Having the WWE Network doesn't give you additional incentive to miss NXT and watch Dynamite live. If there was a delay to when Dynamite could go up, I would agree, but that isn't the case.


This makes no sense. There are more ways to have easy access to NXT. That is going to split viewers. We don’t know how many people watch on the WWE Network, but even if it is just 100k people in the 18-49 demo, that shatters some myths right there. 



Klitschko said:


> Those people are idiots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't AEW ppv buyrates 100k or so in total, while those 55-60k from TNA were always just domestic buyrates?
> 
> Anyways, when it comes to ppv, I'm a lot more impressed with AEW then I ever was with TNA. Paying 50 bucks for a ppv in this day and age is a lot more impressive then when TNA was around.


Yes. AEW’s international buys are constantly conflated with terrestrial domestic PPV buys of TNA (which did poorly in this metric) and ECW to make it look better. 



Pippen94 said:


> No, you claimed TNA did bigger business but I proved by every main metric that is false.
> You responded again with petulant remark. You don't offer much in this topic.
> 
> 
> 
> You've countered hard evidence with opinion. Show isn't top rated but yet it finished #4 in a down week last entry.
> 
> ECW ppv from 1999 was before streaming & illegal streaming so you'd expect quite big number tho aew still got it beat. Comparing buys from that time is like comparing TV ratings from that time to today or CD sales. You know? Irrelevant!


He was discussing TV ratings. TNA did better than AEW did. That’s just a fact. You can claim different times or whatever, but you cannot just lie and change the subject.


----------



## Not Lying

The Wood said:


> I’m responding to your generalisations, champ. Even those sympathetic towards AEW are backing away from the news excuse, _because it’s just not true._
> 
> Huh? So you _are_ saying they would get 1 million views if the obstacles AEW’s mediocrity were removed? You were just saying that no one was saying that. Which is it?
> 
> We weren’t talking NXT. You’ve just tried to sneak that in lol. We were talking the news. It doesn’t hurt AEW much at all.


Huh? Huh what??
* you were one to inserted NXT in there, not me*, and yes i maintain my statement that without NXT in particular AEW would be 1m+ much more regularly. 

Have you not noticed how it so happens during the early pandemic, the politics and riots, the news dominates the rankings and are the most watched? can you brain comprehend that around 100K fans of AEW would stitch over to the news instead of sticking to the program?




La Parka said:


> Where in this thread is anyone saying that a football game is the ONLY reason why Raw had a bad rating? AEW fans would use a football game as the ONLY reason as to why AEW had a low rating, while WWE fans will admit that a certain show had a low rating partly because of another event but would still overall say the main reason behind the low ratings are because the show is dog shit and has been dog shit for many years.
> 
> The same cannot be said for AEW fans. Sure politics/ sports can somewhat hurt the ratings of show but AEW fans act like there is no internal problem with AEW and the program is great when the reality is, the reason why AEW has bad ratings is the same reasons why Raw gets bad ratings. The shows are poor excuses for wrestling programs.


Where in this thread has been said it's ONLY because of the news? 
They've reached numbers in the 700s before all that crap, I didn't see excuses, you're all just upset because you can't push your "AEW sucks" agenda further. And you keep changing the point, the point was that the news DOES effect the ratings, whether it's by 100K it's not gona be much difference in total viewership, from a week to week basis and a 10-20% drop because of politics/news happening, is completely normal and accepted.

What are you upset about? AEW fans denying it has any problems? 
Ok so? do you have to resort to LIES that can EASILY be disproven by LOOKING AT THE RATINGS TRENDS that news/politics don't affect a show's rating?


----------



## Prized Fighter

The Wood said:


> This makes no sense. There are more ways to have easy access to NXT. That is going to split viewers. We don’t know how many people watch on the WWE Network, but even if it is just 100k people in the 18-49 demo, that shatters some myths right there.


Once again, having the WWE Network means nothing when a high majority of those same people have DVR. Both those services serve the same purpose when it comes to NXT. If you have both services (which is most people), you still choose to watch the product you like better first because both shows are available to you later. Once you have DVR, you have the same option to watch AEW later that you would with NXT regardless of the WWE Network.

Now, If you have the WWE Network and don't have DVR, you may be inclined to watch Dynamite live over NXT, but that percentage of people is so small that it isn't material. Even then, those same people would likely have some form of on-demand service that lets them watch AEW the next day too. The WWE Network isn't giving people an incentive to watch Dynamite live over NXT, the public is choosing to do that because they prefer AEW.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Klitschko said:


> Those people are idiots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't AEW ppv buyrates 100k or so in total, while those 55-60k from TNA were always just domestic buyrates?
> 
> Anyways, when it comes to ppv, I'm a lot more impressed with AEW then I ever was with TNA. Paying 50 bucks for a ppv in this day and age is a lot more impressive then when TNA was around.


domestic buyrates on the 100k

fite.tv does not release their numbers - but they've hinted its 30k - 35k international


----------



## La Parka

The Definition of Technician said:


> Where in this thread has been said it's ONLY because of the news?
> They've reached numbers in the 700s before all that crap, I didn't see excuses, you're all just upset because you can't push your "AEW sucks" agenda further. And you keep changing the point, the point was that the news DOES effect the ratings, whether it's by 100K it's not gona be much difference in total viewership, from a week to week basis and a 10-20% drop because of politics/news happening, is completely normal and accepted.
> 
> What are you upset about? AEW fans denying it has any problems?
> Ok so? do you have to resort to LIES that can EASILY be disproven by LOOKING AT THE RATINGS TRENDS that news/politics don't affect a show's rating?


Any time a poster brings up the news, baseball, basketball or the weather and doesn't say anything about the product itself, they are basically saying its because of external reasons. If a poster's (and theres many) history only shows them praising the show and then they come in to the ratings thread only talking about external surroundings, why would anyone think this poster thinks the product is anything less than spectacular? 


AEW sucking has nothing to do with the ratings. The ratings could be 8 million a show and the show would still suck. The reality is the product AND the ratings suck and fanboys are pretending that the opposite is true. The news should not effect you to the point that hardly anyone is watching your product.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

wonder what Paul will do for the ratings tonight

you'd have to think some people will tune in


----------



## Pentagon Senior

LifeInCattleClass said:


> wonder what Paul will do for the ratings tonight
> 
> you'd have to think some people will tune in


Yup, it's guna be a big show tonight...amirite?

In seriousness, would be nice to see a little bump but it won't do much long-term obviously


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeah, Big Show won't get them through the door consistently 

but as a 'what'll happen' once-off pop / its bound to do something

that is to say, if something did not go horribly wrong in America today and half the country flooded or Trump accosted somebody or something

in other words... fuck the news


----------



## The Wood

The Definition of Technician said:


> Huh? Huh what??
> * you were one to inserted NXT in there, not me*, and yes i maintain my statement that without NXT in particular AEW would be 1m+ much more regularly.
> 
> Have you not noticed how it so happens during the early pandemic, the politics and riots, the news dominates the rankings and are the most watched? can you brain comprehend that around 100K fans of AEW would stitch over to the news instead of sticking to the program?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where in this thread has been said it's ONLY because of the news?
> They've reached numbers in the 700s before all that crap, I didn't see excuses, you're all just upset because you can't push your "AEW sucks" agenda further. And you keep changing the point, the point was that the news DOES effect the ratings, whether it's by 100K it's not gona be much difference in total viewership, from a week to week basis and a 10-20% drop because of politics/news happening, is completely normal and accepted.
> 
> What are you upset about? AEW fans denying it has any problems?
> Ok so? do you have to resort to LIES that can EASILY be disproven by LOOKING AT THE RATINGS TRENDS that news/politics don't affect a show's rating?


I’m not going to go back, and I’ve forgotten exact quotes, but I’m pretty sure I jumped in when I saw you responding to someone dismissing the news myth with the random inclusion of NXT, which I just called out.

I’m going to say this again and put it in cold: *More people watching the news does not mean fewer people watching wrestling.*

You do see the excuses whenever AEW does pretty dodgy in the viewership. That’a the whole point.



Prized Fighter said:


> Once again, having the WWE Network means nothing when a high majority of those same people have DVR. Both those services serve the same purpose when it comes to NXT. If you have both services (which is most people), you still choose to watch the product you like better first because both shows are available to you later. Once you have DVR, you have the same option to watch AEW later that you would with NXT regardless of the WWE Network.
> 
> Now, If you have the WWE Network and don't have DVR, you may be inclined to watch Dynamite live over NXT, but that percentage of people is so small that it isn't material. Even then, those same people would likely have some form of on-demand service that lets them watch AEW the next day too. The WWE Network isn't giving people an incentive to watch Dynamite live over NXT, the public is choosing to do that because they prefer AEW.


I don’t have the DVR numbers in front of me, but I’m willing to bet quite a few people DVR NXT too. So? But on top of that you would have people without DVR or who just want to save space and watch a stream off an app they’re paying for.

It doesn’t seem any harder or weirder to get NXT through the WWE Network than to DVR it.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> domestic buyrates on the 100k
> 
> fite.tv does not release their numbers - but they've hinted its 30k - 35k international


The biggest domestic buyrate AEW has done was at about 75k. This is as per Meltzer, who is AEW’s biggest apologist.


----------



## thorn123

This episode deserves a high rating ... so we will probably be let down


----------



## greasykid1

I know people are obsessing (still) over the apparent "Wednesday Night War" but honestly, I don't agree that it matters even in the slightest.

AEW Dynamite and NXT are both available On Demand. Anyone with any brain avoids the actual live broadcasts like the plague anyway because they're both packed with ads and have filler segments to skip. The ONLY way to consume any WWE product, or AEW Dynamite, is on DVR or On Demand. Unless you actually enjoy the ads and the crappy replay segments and recaps. If you want to watch both, you can, and there is literally no difference in when you watch.

I'm not tuning into any TV channel to watch either, so I don't even know whether my view is counted ... but actually, I just don't care.

The crazy part is, the whole ratings battle is driven by this fallacy that people WATCH the adverts lol
The marketing teams and advertisers are still spending billions of dollars on making the ads and placing them in certain places, during certain shows, and just stubbournly refusing to accept that for the most part, people completely ignore/avoid/skip through every ad break in every show that they watch.

It feels so very old fashioned to me, to watch a TV show while a channel is actually broadcasting it, and putting up with 20 minutes of adverts for every 40 minutes of program. I have no understanding of why anyone still does that in 2021.


----------



## Klitschko

If AEW does bad tonight it's because people were out doing their taxes. Got my excuse ready.

Anyways, I'm actually going to predict close to 800k with the Big Show hype.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Klitschko said:


> If AEW does bad tonight it's because people were out doing their taxes. Got my excuse ready.
> 
> Anyways, I'm actually going to predict close to 800k with the Big Show hype.


Lots of people wash their hair on a Wednesday evening FYI 😉

Last two weeks the numbers have been uninspiring, in honesty. I'd hope for at least 800k this week but it's notoriously difficult to predict.


----------



## ProjectGargano

I don't know, i am not confident, didn't saw many people talking about the show last night


----------



## MoxAsylum

Read the results and sounded like a terrible show yet again. My prediction 600k


----------



## ProjectGargano

MoxAsylum said:


> Read the results and sounded like a terrible show yet again. My prediction 600k


You only read the results, how you know how the show was? It was a very nice show.


----------



## MoxAsylum

ProjectGargano said:


> You only read the results, how you know how the show was? It was a very nice show.


I did watch the Sting part on youtube that was pretty dope though


----------



## Garty

I don't think I've ever predicted a rating, other than the < and > reactions to other users numbers.

Rating 814,000
Demo .33
Position 5th


----------



## RiverFenix

Has Shaq tweeted out or promoted in any way his match next week?


----------



## ProjectGargano

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Has Shaq tweeted out or promoted in any way his match next week?


Only on his show. I don´t know how AEW pays Shaq and Tyson and don´t obligue them to promote the company. Shaq as 15,5M followers on Twitter and didn´t posted anything yet.


----------



## RainmakerV2

795k, maybe 800.


----------



## RiverFenix

ProjectGargano said:


> Only on his show. I don´t know how AEW pays Shaq and Tyson and don´t obligue them to promote the company. Shaq as 15,5M followers on Twitter and didn´t posted anything yet.


It's ridiculous. It's like they're slumming in AEW and don't want their fans to know it. It's off-putting.


----------



## Erik.

AEW: 831,000
NXT: 734,000


----------



## RainmakerV2

Erik. said:


> AEW: 831,000
> NXT: 734,000



That a prediction or?


----------



## 3venflow

Further deets:

*Overall*

AEW: 831,000 (+11.24%)
NXT: 734,000 (+2.95%)

*18-49*

AEW: .35 (+12.90%)
NXT: .18 (+12.50%)

*Combined Viewership*

Last week: 1,460,000
This week: 1,565,000 (+7.19%)

Good week for both shows!


----------



## RainmakerV2

Not bad for either show. NXT on an upswing lately.


----------



## RiverFenix

If Shaq tweeted out to his 15M followers I bet AEW could break 1M easily next week. Would literally need 2% of his non-wrestling watching twitter followers to tune in to bump the regular AEW numbers.


----------



## ProjectGargano

RainmakerV2 said:


> Not bad for either show. NXT on an upswing lately.


The 10 minute overrun certainly helps.


----------



## fabi1982

Ok I was really worried that people watching snow falling, but it actually is a show not around snow...phew I thought the US lost it completelly 😂😂


----------



## 3venflow

The memes have started.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365043339654004737


----------



## ProjectGargano

This was good for both shows.


----------



## Prosper

831K with a .35 demo, top 5 for the night. Strong number. Next week with Big Show and Shaq both advertised for the show it should hopefully do even better. 

NXT with a nice overall rating too. Good cable week for both brands.


----------



## RapShepard

Top 5 as it is most weeks


----------



## Whoanma

3venflow said:


> The memes have started.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365043339654004737


These guys are really fast with their gifs.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> It's ridiculous. It's like they're slumming in AEW and don't want their fans to know it. It's off-putting.


If Shaq didn't want his fans to know about it, he wouldn't talk about it on Inside the NBA. A show millions of people watch. 

I have no explanation for Tyson because I don't know and don't follow boxing.


----------



## Garty

Garty is All Elite said:


> I don't think I've ever predicted a rating, other than the < and > reactions to other users numbers.
> 
> Rating 814,000
> Demo .33
> Position 5th


 Not bad for a first time, if I do say so myself.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Wow an impressive combined figure - great to see. That's very healthy for both shows


----------



## Prosper

Garty is All Elite said:


> Not bad for a first time, if I do say so myself.


Damn bro you were pretty spot on, try again next week lol you may have future sight


----------



## NathanMayberry

3venflow said:


> Further deets:
> 
> *Overall*
> 
> AEW: 831,000 (+11.24%)
> NXT: 734,000 (+2.95%)
> 
> *18-49*
> 
> AEW: .35 (+12.90%)
> NXT: .18 (+12.50%)
> 
> *Combined Viewership*
> 
> Last week: 1,460,000
> This week: 1,565,000 (+7.19%)
> 
> Good week for both shows!
> 
> View attachment 97874


I'll never not love seeing Hannity and Cucker getting trounced by Maddow and Cuomo


----------



## PavelGaborik

NathanMayberry said:


> I'll never not love seeing Hannity and Cucker getting trounced by Maddow and Cuomo


FOX has really tanked massively since the election. Rachael and Cuomo are both absolutely awful as well though.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Good number, good demo, good show, good brothers


----------



## Garty

Prosper said:


> Damn bro you were pretty spot on, try again next week lol you may have future sight


Well, since you've brought it up and the feeling of being invincible right now, I'll let you know next weeks numbers today:

Dynamite March 3 2021

Overall - 1.1 million
Demo - .45
Position - 2


----------



## DammitChrist

That’s weird. 

I could’ve sworn being told multiple times that Dynamite was “dying” with the ratings. 

Anyway, it’s good to see that they’re doing well with the ratings since the show delivered (once again) 

For the record, it’s also nice to see NXT receive solid ratings since that show has also been good since late-2020 (when they stopped ‘hot-shotting’ with their booking every week).


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

865,000 for same week last year.

So 34,000 loss - 3.9% down from last year.

NXT was 717,000 last year - so a 17,000 viewer improvement or gain of 2.3%.

Certainly better on both shows than what we usually see out of Raw and Smackdown year-over-year percentage wise.


----------



## yeahright2

Garty is All Elite said:


> Well, since you've brought it up and the feeling of being invincible right now, I'll let you know next weeks numbers today:
> 
> Dynamite March 3 2021
> 
> Overall - 1.1 million
> Demo - .45
> Position - 2


Why? You could be right, but what is it on next weeks card that makes you think they´ll go +1 million? Paul Wight? He´s a big star (no pun), but even Sting didn´t make them break that number. And with the announcement that he´s going to be a commentator I don´t think many people expect him to get physical.. And doesn´t the AEW fans hate him as much as most of the WWE fans who said he should have retired 10 years ago?

And you know that if AEW doesn´t do those numbers, people will come after you


----------



## ProjectGargano

yeahright2 said:


> Why? You could be right, but what is it on next weeks card that makes you think they´ll go +1 million? Paul Wight? He´s a big star (no pun), but even Sting didn´t make them break that number. And with the announcement that he´s going to be a commentator I don´t think many people expect him to get physical.. And doesn´t the AEW fans hate him as much as most of the WWE fans who said he should have retired 10 years ago?
> 
> And you know that if AEW doesn´t do those numbers, people will come after you


I think it is because the curiosity of seeing Shaq fight.


----------



## Pippen94

0.35 is second highest demo for the year. Head to head with wrestling competition it's interesting how aew dominates in all age demos except over 50's. Aew's audience is much younger.


----------



## Pippen94

yeahright2 said:


> Why? You could be right, but what is it on next weeks card that makes you think they´ll go +1 million? Paul Wight? He´s a big star (no pun), but even Sting didn´t make them break that number. And with the announcement that he´s going to be a commentator I don´t think many people expect him to get physical.. And doesn´t the AEW fans hate him as much as most of the WWE fans who said he should have retired 10 years ago?
> 
> And you know that if AEW doesn´t do those numbers, people will come after you


Shaq is wrestling


----------



## Garty

yeahright2 said:


> Why? You could be right, but what is it on next weeks card that makes you think they´ll go +1 million? Paul Wight? He´s a big star (no pun), but even Sting didn´t make them break that number. And with the announcement that he´s going to be a commentator I don´t think many people expect him to get physical.. And doesn´t the AEW fans hate him as much as most of the WWE fans who said he should have retired 10 years ago?
> 
> And you know that if AEW doesn´t do those numbers, people will come after you


There's a lot of final PPV push to get through, as well as Shaq and Paul Wight's AEW debut. Hell, if they did almost 850,000 for this weeks show (with little to no hype), I do think 1 million plus next week, is a solid bet.

If not, then here's my response to those seeking revenge...


http://www.quickmeme.com/img/2b/2b1663d6b4bb114a1ac5e1cf2706873f2a3e387dbf06b86c6988cd732c583e7b.jpg


----------



## rbl85

#BadNewsSanta said:


> 865,000 for same week last year.
> 
> So 34,000 loss - 3.9% down from last year.
> 
> NXT was 717,000 last year - so a 17,000 viewer improvement or gain of 2.3%.
> 
> Certainly better on both shows than what we usually see out of Raw and Smackdown year-over-year percentage wise.


Did NXT have the overrun last year at that time ?


----------



## Chan Hung

Shaq in the ring and Jade Cargil will get a ton of curious viewership, that segment will be past 1 million.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

3venflow said:


> Further deets:
> 
> *Overall*
> 
> AEW: 831,000 (+11.24%)
> NXT: 734,000 (+2.95%)
> 
> *18-49*
> 
> AEW: .35 (+12.90%)
> NXT: .18 (+12.50%)
> 
> *Combined Viewership*
> 
> Last week: 1,460,000
> This week: 1,565,000 (+7.19%)
> 
> Good week for both shows!
> 
> View attachment 97874


And just like that it went back up like it always does. Yet people act like it's stuck at 700k.


----------



## DaSlacker

Pippen94 said:


> 0.35 is second highest demo for the year. Head to head with wrestling competition it's interesting how aew dominates in all age demos except over 50's. Aew's audience is much younger.


My theory is that if AEW went unopposed indefinitely or NXT was pushed back behind a paywall or both. Then Dynamite would fairly quickly be hovering around the 1 million viewers area. They've got the younger audience but the older generation who will watch wrestling, if live, sway towards the tried and tested brand.


----------



## yeahright2

Garty is All Elite said:


> There's a lot of final PPV push to get through, as well as Shaq and Paul Wight's AEW debut. Hell, if they did almost 850,000 for this weeks show (with little to no hype), I do think 1 million plus next week, is a solid bet.
> 
> If not, then here's my response to those seeking revenge...
> 
> 
> http://www.quickmeme.com/img/2b/2b1663d6b4bb114a1ac5e1cf2706873f2a3e387dbf06b86c6988cd732c583e7b.jpg


As I see it, AEW has roughly 700K viewers that will tune in no matter what crap is being served, and then there´s 150K or so that´s more casual..Sometimes they watch, sometimes they don´t. -Let´s count them for next week as viewers who will tune in to see the PPV go home show. Where will the remaining viewers come from? Will it be Shaq fans? Does he really have that many fans now that he´s a retired NBA player? That´s a genuine question btw.. I don´t follow NBA so I don´t know the average fanbase ratio, let alone that of a retired player. 
If that´s who will be adding the extra numbers, they´re most likely gone again the week after.

Guess we´ll see.. Maybe we can turn it into a weekly game; Predict next weeks ratings


----------



## 3venflow

1,000,000 would probably be more common than not for AEW if not for the competition. NXT could even push 1m every now and again. There are 200-300,000 who may switch to the other when one of the two shows isn't on. That was shown over four weeks last year when NXT was unopposed for two weeks, then AEW was unopposed for two weeks and both shows saw ratings spikes, including Dynamite with Dustin vs. Brodie topping a million average.


----------



## Pippen94

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365101492814888970


----------



## Dr. Middy

yeahright2 said:


> Why? You could be right, but what is it on next weeks card that makes you think they´ll go +1 million? Paul Wight? He´s a big star (no pun), but even Sting didn´t make them break that number. And with the announcement that he´s going to be a commentator I don´t think many people expect him to get physical.. And doesn´t the AEW fans hate him as much as most of the WWE fans who said he should have retired 10 years ago?
> 
> And you know that if AEW doesn´t do those numbers, people will come after you


Seems like each week's ratings is more indicative of the previous week. There was a lot of good storyline build up on this show, so I can see them getting above 900K along with the Shaq match and Big Show's announcement thing. 

Also, I'm willing to be people were just annoyed when Show suddenly was in the main event during like 2013-14 when Bryan was hot, or when he was a constant annoyance with the Authority along with Kane. But the last few years with his on and off appearances and how he's been used, I think fans are enjoying him a lot more that way.


----------



## The Wood

Lol at people acting like 831k is “back up.” That’s a pretty dog average number for these shows. 1.5 million people watching on a Wednesday isn’t anywhere near the peak for Wednesday.

Why is the bar being lowered all the time?


----------



## One Shed

The Wood said:


> Lol at people acting like 831k is “back up.” That’s a pretty dog average number for these shows. 1.5 million people watching on a Wednesday isn’t anywhere near the peak for Wednesday.
> 
> Why is the bar being lowered all the time?


The bar is pretty low:


----------



## The Wood

They’ll occasionally do a show that gets 900k watching. Maybe they’ll go unopposed. Maybe it will be a big TNT crossover thing. It might even be next week. But that doesn’t mean they are building an audience. When people tune out the next week, it likely means they didn’t like what they were served up.


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> The bar is pretty low:


Has something happened to embolden ppl to start dropping by with caustic one liners again??

Seems prevelant now but this guy in particular was posting doom & gloom all yesterday about signing of Big Show.

Aew did 0.35 which was up on last year's 0.31. Collectively both shows did 1.6 also an increase.


----------



## TD Stinger

I'm glad to see both shows trending in the right direction. I'll predict 950k for the episode next week. I also preface this by saying I'm horrible at predicting these things, lol.


----------



## Claro De Luna

The ratings are great this week despite what Woody and Two Shites would have you believe. Keep up the solid shows AEW. Thanks Tony Khan!


----------



## omaroo

Next week's go home show seems decent and you expect would do a better rating than this week. 

Big show could be so useful in backstage role. Helping young guys. But wrestling..no


----------



## Arn Anderson goat

I really think Rey fenix is a bonafide superstar, they need to let him start winning and get a title on him, my nephews and friends go crazy every time he's on


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Has something happened to embolden ppl to start dropping by with caustic one liners again??
> 
> Seems prevelant now but this guy in particular was posting doom & gloom all yesterday about signing of Big Show.
> 
> Aew did 0.35 which was up on last year's 0.31. Collectively both shows did 1.6 also an increase.


I don’t remember anyone predicting anything of the sort. Not really. Stop lying?



Claro De Luna said:


> The ratings are great this week despite what Woody and Two Shites would have you believe. Keep up the solid shows AEW. Thanks Tony Khan!


I was actually going to predict exactly what Rainmaker did. A late 700/early 800 number. Which was the case, although it was probably a bit higher than I would have guessed.



Arn Anderson goat said:


> I really think Rey fenix is a bonafide superstar, they need to let him start winning and get a title on him, my nephews and friends go crazy every time he's on


I like Rey Fenix too.


----------



## thorn123

It was an awesome episode and deserved even more viewers.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365247268983476225

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dr. Middy

Best thing they can do for next week is have Shaq on at 9 and build towards the women main eventing. A bunch of the tournament matches have been real good, they deserve to have that spot for a night.


----------



## 3venflow

Fair play to the women, if they are indeed starting to draw then it could justify more air time. Personally, I prefer to see the men's roster most of the time but you can't argue with the data.

Shaq has in fact promoted his match on his Instagram. It will be interesting to see if this helps the rating - obviously it'd help more if he promotes it the night before and/or same day.

He looks in good condition and seems to be taking this match quite seriously.


----------



## Claro De Luna

Good news about the women drawing. Britt and Nyla were always going to garner interest. This feels a bit like the TNA Knockouts division when it was taking off and Gail Kim was main eventing Impact. I think for AEW this is a turning point for their women's division. We've got Thunder Rosa vs Riho to look forward to.


----------



## One Shed

Claro De Luna said:


> The ratings are great this week despite what Woody and Two Shites would have you believe. Keep up the solid shows AEW. Thanks Tony Khan!


Hey @Firefromthegods. you know I hate complaining but if good posters like @Chip Chipperson are going to get banned, and I am going to be told not to call out kids for being children, can we be consistent and tell this person to also lay off the personal attacks outside of Rants? I would hate to see more of a double standard foment here.


----------



## 3venflow

Hey, remember ticket sales?

Well, Revolution is sold out now on Ticketmaster. Some fans are fuming because they were in the queue and didn't get any. Scalpers probably bought some up to resell at stupid prices too.

Could be the biggest attendance in a while since they seem to be allowing more in.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365323683334672384


----------



## Prosper

Good on Nyla Rose and Britt Baker pulling in the most cable viewers for the night, they’re match was great and Britts character work/performance was very enjoyable.


----------



## Claro De Luna

Two Sheds said:


> Hey @Firefromthegods. you know I hate complaining but if good posters like @Chip Chipperson are going to get banned, and I am going to be told not to call out kids for being children, can we be consistent and tell this person to also lay off the personal attacks outside of Rants? I would hate to see more of a double standard foment here.


Obviously Chip can't have been a good poster if he was given a permanent ban lol. Get over it mate. 

Also stop acting like scrooge when everyone in here is trying to celebrate a success. Go start your own thread where you can bitch as much as you like. You're not wanted in here so bugger off.


----------



## Klitschko

3venflow said:


> Hey, remember ticket sales?
> 
> Well, Revolution is sold out now on Ticketmaster. Some fans are fuming because they were in the queue and didn't get any. Scalpers probably bought some up to resell at stupid prices too.
> 
> Could be the biggest attendance in a while since they seem to be allowing more in.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365323683334672384


It's a little over a thousand fans, right? I know that's not a huge number by any means, but I'm glad to see it's slowly climbing during the pandemic.


----------



## One Shed

Claro De Luna said:


> Obviously Chip can't have been a good poster if he was given a permanent ban lol. Get over it mate.
> 
> Also stop acting like scrooge when everyone in here is trying to celebrate a success. Go start your own thread where you can bitch as much as you like. You're not wanted in here so bugger off.


I am going to keep being a realist. The average is still down year over year as I showed with the pure data a few weeks ago. They are not building any true momentum or increasing their fanbase. I have listed the reasons why I think this is so, but there is no debating they are stagnate as a company.


----------



## The Wood

The women drawing more often just means that perverts flipped over and didn’t stick around. This isn’t a knock on the women at all, but their rating isn’t exactly a metric of merit. Sable was the second biggest ratings draw for the WWF in 1998, which exposes a lot of myths about their programming.


----------



## Claro De Luna

The Wood said:


> The women drawing more often just means that perverts flipped over and didn’t stick around. This isn’t a knock on the women at all, but their rating isn’t exactly a metric of merit. Sable was the second biggest ratings draw for the WWF in 1998, which exposes a lot of myths about their programming.


I wonder if you look as stupid as you sound.


----------



## One Shed

Claro De Luna said:


> I wonder if you look as stupid as you sound.


Hey look @Firefromthegods, more personal attacks from this guy again. Some people just cannot argue points and have to use ad hominems.


----------



## Prosper

Cable breakdown for this week. Good retention all night. Was a great show.


Q1: Mox vs Nemeth, Mox post match promo, Fenix/Archer interview: 832K, 407K
Q2: Bucks and family at the truck, Team Taz vs Varsity Blonds: 765k, 389k
Q3: Sting, Darby and Team Taz angle, interview with Miro and Kip, Hager vs Cutler: 840K, 460k
Q4: Papa Buck gets bloodied up, feature of the Shaq match, beginning of Page vs Kassidy: 835k, 475k
Q5: Page vs Kassidy, Kenny setting up the Extermination Chamber: 841k, 482k
Q6: Women tourney recap, Britt vs Nyla: 866k, 479k
Q7: JE vs FTR videopackage, beginning of Archer vs Fenix: 838K, 464K
Q8: Archer vs Fenix: 828K, 457K


----------



## ProjectGargano

Prosper said:


> Cable breakdown for this week. Good retention all night. Was a great show.
> 
> 
> Q1: Mox vs Nemeth, Mox post match promo, Fenix/Archer interview: 832K, 407K
> Q2: Bucks and family at the truck, Team Taz vs Varsity Blonds: 765k, 389k
> Q3: Sting, Darby and Team Taz angle, interview with Miro and Kip, Hager vs Cutler: 840K, 460k
> Q4: Papa Buck gets bloodied up, feature of the Shaq match, beginning of Page vs Kassidy: 835k, 475k
> Q5: Page vs Kassidy, Kenny setting up the Extermination Chamber: 841k, 482k
> Q6: Women tourney recap, Britt vs Nyla: 866k, 479k
> Q7: JE vs FTR videopackage, beginning of Archer vs Fenix: 838K, 464K
> Q8: Archer vs Fenix: 828K, 457K


Do you have the Quarters for NXT?


----------



## Prosper

ProjectGargano said:


> Do you have the Quarters for NXT?


Yessir. Strong night for NXT as well.

Q1: 800k / 232k (Lumis vs Gargano)
Q2: 781k / 250k (MSK video package, Grizzled Young Veterans beatdown on MSK, Rust vs Ruff and Regal/Stark segment)
Q3: 745k / 235k (Shirai vs Stark)
Q4: 706k / 213k (end of Shirai vs Stark, Toni challenging Shirai, The Way promo and Cameron Grimes vignette)
Q5: 729k / 236k (Xia vs Kacy, women's Tag Team title match preview video)
Q6: 623k / 207k (another Grimes video, Dain/Maverick vs GYV)
Q7: 709k / 233k (beginning of Kross vs Escobar)
Q8: 743k / 241k (ending of Kross vs Escobar, Cole/Strong/Balor segment)


----------



## ProjectGargano

Prosper said:


> Yessir. Strong night for NXT as well.
> 
> Q1: 800k / 232k (Lumis vs Gargano)
> Q2: 781k / 250k (MSK video package, Grizzled Young Veterans beatdown on MSK, Rust vs Ruff and Regal/Stark segment)
> Q3: 745k / 235k (Shirai vs Stark)
> Q4: 706k / 213k (end of Shirai vs Stark, Toni challenging Shirai, The Way promo and Cameron Grimes vignette)
> Q5: 729k / 236k (Xia vs Kacy, women's Tag Team title match preview video)
> Q6: 623k / 207k (another Grimes video, Dain/Maverick vs GYV)
> Q7: 709k / 233k (beginning of Kross vs Escobar)
> Q8: 743k / 241k (ending of Kross vs Escobar, Cole/Strong/Balor segment)


Thanks! Does the overrun counts on the final rating? I would like to know how that influenced the numbers lol


----------



## Prosper

ProjectGargano said:


> Thanks! Does the overrun counts on the final rating? I would like to know how that influenced the numbers lol


Yeah the overrun counts for the overall but I'm not sure if that detailed overage is included in Q8 numbers or if they left it out.


----------



## Pippen94

Women's segment top rated again this week. Que @RapShepard to do a 180 from yesterday & say they're doing better with division


----------



## El Hammerstone

Two Sheds said:


> Hey look @Firefromthegods, more personal attacks from this guy again. Some people just cannot argue points and have to use ad hominems.


Quoting, so this won't be ignored.


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> Hey @Firefromthegods. you know I hate complaining but if good posters like @Chip Chipperson are going to get banned, and I am going to be told not to call out kids for being children, can we be consistent and tell this person to also lay off the personal attacks outside of Rants? I would hate to see more of a double standard foment here.


If ppl actually read posts here you would've been long banned.

Your attempt to masquerade as somebody who collects ratings was exposed in less than a week when you wouldn't accept numbers from only two sources where fans get data; showbuzz & torch. 

Exposed, you now resort to run ins where you drop oneliners about ratings & claim any big news will be ruin of company.

But hey, if ppl who don't even watch show are allowed to be most frequent posters here than I guess nothing will happen to you.


----------



## Pippen94

3venflow said:


> Hey, remember ticket sales?
> 
> Well, Revolution is sold out now on Ticketmaster. Some fans are fuming because they were in the queue and didn't get any. Scalpers probably bought some up to resell at stupid prices too.
> 
> Could be the biggest attendance in a while since they seem to be allowing more in.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365323683334672384


In news comes in light of running out of same place every week


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> If ppl actually read posts here you would've been long banned.
> 
> Your attempt to masquerade as somebody who collects ratings was exposed in less than a week when you wouldn't accept numbers from only two sources where fans get data; showbuzz & torch.
> 
> Exposed, you now resort to run ins where you drop oneliners about ratings & claim any big news will be ruin of company.
> 
> But hey, if ppl who don't even watch show are allowed to be most frequent posters here than I guess nothing will happen to you.


Banned for what?

I showed the ratings in black and white and the trends. You cannot dispute math. We all accept the overall and quarter ratings. The minute by minutes are not publicly released so those should be questioned. When did I not accept publicly released ratings from Showbuzz?

Are you claiming I do not watch the show now?


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Women's segment top rated again this week. Que @RapShepard to do a 180 from yesterday & say they're doing better with division


Riho used to get the highest rated segments too. So did Orange Cassidy. It’s a freak show blip. Everyone watching is still watching and then you get fetishists and people who laugh at the wrestling.


----------



## ProjectGargano

I don´t know what it is but Revolution will be streaming at the Cinemark theaters.


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Women's segment top rated again this week. Que @RapShepard to do a 180 from yesterday & say they're doing better with division


No the division sucks and we all know it, which is why some of you need to convince yourself once a week how good it's getting. Until it gets consistent stories and focus it's worthless.


----------



## 3venflow

Interesting snippet from a Tony Khan interview where he said it was TNT's idea to name the new streaming show Dark: Elevation to keep it in brand with Dark.

Sounds like TNT are very invested in AEW and it also sounds like the new TV show will be on their channel (rather than elsewhere on the WarnerMedia platforms) judging by the quotes.

Khan: “So, you’ll have the two Dark properties and the two TNT properties and I’m really excited about it. I think we’re ready for it.”

“It was TNT’s idea, I’ll be 100% honest. I originally had the title Elevation and they’re right, the executives made a great point to me, ‘You don’t want to create confusion with different brands.’ Elevation is an extension of Dark so they essentially said, ‘Call it AEW Dark: Elevation.’ And I said that’s a great idea.”


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> Interesting snippet from a Tony Khan interview where he said it was TNT's idea to name the new streaming show Dark: Elevation to keep it in brand with Dark.
> 
> Sounds like TNT are very invested in AEW and it also sounds like the new TV show will be on their channel (rather than elsewhere on the WarnerMedia platforms) judging by the quotes.
> 
> Khan: “So, you’ll have the two Dark properties and the two TNT properties and I’m really excited about it. I think we’re ready for it.”
> 
> “It was TNT’s idea, I’ll be 100% honest. I originally had the title Elevation and they’re right, the executives made a great point to me, ‘You don’t want to create confusion with different brands.’ Elevation is an extension of Dark so they essentially said, ‘Call it AEW Dark: Elevation.’ And I said that’s a great idea.”


Good on the securing a good relationship despite the guy who got them on the station left.


----------



## yeahright2

Prosper said:


> Cable breakdown for this week. Good retention all night. Was a great show.
> 
> 
> Q1: Mox vs Nemeth, Mox post match promo, Fenix/Archer interview: 832K, 407K
> Q2: Bucks and family at the truck, Team Taz vs Varsity Blonds: 765k, 389k
> Q3: Sting, Darby and Team Taz angle, interview with Miro and Kip, Hager vs Cutler: 840K, 460k
> Q4: Papa Buck gets bloodied up, feature of the Shaq match, beginning of Page vs Kassidy: 835k, 475k
> Q5: Page vs Kassidy, Kenny setting up the Extermination Chamber: 841k, 482k
> Q6: Women tourney recap, Britt vs Nyla: 866k, 479k
> Q7: JE vs FTR videopackage, beginning of Archer vs Fenix: 838K, 464K
> Q8: Archer vs Fenix: 828K, 457K


Bucks doing low numbers compared to the rest should tell AEW that people isn´t too fond of the Aging Bucks


----------



## rbl85

yeahright2 said:


> Bucks doing low numbers compared to the rest should tell AEW that people isn´t too fond of the Aging Bucks


In a quarter in which they appear for 2min max ?

I mean it's not like a match happened in that quarter (and the Bucks weren't in it).....oh wait .

The quarter in which they appeared the most did better than the main event and better than Mox.

In the Q2 they appear for 40s so try to find a better exemple next time


----------



## RapShepard

The Wood said:


> Riho used to get the highest rated segments too. So did Orange Cassidy. It’s a freak show blip. Everyone watching is still watching and then you get fetishists and people who laugh at the wrestling.


To me it's just a thing of the division is not good yet and folk are grasping at straws to make it seem good. Yeah they got some bodies, but until they put them in stories a bunch of matches means fuck all


----------



## yeahright2

rbl85 said:


> In a quarter in which they appear for 2min max ?
> 
> I mean it's not like a match happened in that quarter (and the Bucks weren't in it).....oh wait .
> 
> The quarter in which they appeared the most did better than the main event and better than Mox.


I´m going by the descriptions of the segments.


----------



## rbl85

yeahright2 said:


> I´m going by the descriptions of the segments.


So you didn't watch the show ?


----------



## yeahright2

rbl85 said:


> So you didn't watch the show ?


Yep. But I can´t remember when who was in what segment.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> So you didn't watch the show ?


Why do people try and use this as a gotcha? Shows are supposed to make you _want_ to watch them. “That sounds like shit” is a perfectly reasonable critical response.


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> Why do people try and use this as a gotcha? *Shows are supposed to make you want to watch them. “That sounds like shit” is a perfectly reasonable critical response*.


Have nothing to do with our discussion


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> Have nothing to do with our discussion


It absolutely does.


----------



## Jman55

The Wood said:


> It absolutely does.


Nah though your point in general is fully correct in terms of it being a proper critical point, it genuinely doesn't relate to their discussion as they aren't talking about the segment in that context they are talking about it in how it affected the quarterly ratings, and due to how short it is and how the main meat of that quarter was actually Hager vs Cutler chances are it had absolutely no effect and it was Hager vs Cutler which was actually chasing the viewers away.

But I do agree with the idea that dismissing someone's opinion entirely because they don't watch the show is incorrect. It's obviously going to be a lot less informed than someone who does watch it and that should be taken into account, but it also helps give an idea of how it is perceived by people who are not fans or fully aware, so should be payed attention to.


----------



## rbl85

Jman55 said:


> Nah though your point in general is fully correct in terms of it being a proper critical point, it genuinely doesn't relate to their discussion as they aren't talking about the segment in that context they are talking about it in how it affected the quarterly ratings, and due to how short it is and how the main meat of that quarter was actually Hager vs Cutler chances are it had absolutely no effect and it was Hager vs Cutler which was actually chasing the viewers away.
> 
> But I do agree with the idea that dismissing someone's opinion entirely because they don't watch the show is incorrect. It's obviously going to be a lot less informed than someone who does watch it and that should be taken into account, but it also helps give an idea of how it is perceived by people who are not fans or fully aware, so should be payed attention to.


All i did was ask a question


----------



## Jman55

rbl85 said:


> All i did was ask a question


And all I did was agree with his point in a general sense I never specified you were doing that in this scenario maybe you were maybe you weren't I wouldn't know. 

Since I decided to pop in may as well give an opinion of the overall ratings, they're looking solid. I can kinda see why people are talking about no growth and yeah they're mostly just holding steady right now and still need to make some changes to get that big push, but keeping steady at a good enough rating to be reasonably successful is still a good thing and AEW deserves to be proud they're doing that even if based on what little I understand of the Nielson system it is kind of outdated in general (maybe AEW would be doing worse or even better with a more modern way of measuring ratings? who knows I sure don't this isn't a subject I'm exactly an expert in)

People do seem to overhype how well they are doing sometimes but they are doing pretty ok for themselves from what I understand even if people were hoping they'd turn out to be something bigger, never expected they'd be a true challenger to WWE for a long time if ever anyway and frankly they don't need to be.


----------



## The Wood

Jman55 said:


> Nah though your point in general is fully correct in terms of it being a proper critical point, it genuinely doesn't relate to their discussion as they aren't talking about the segment in that context they are talking about it in how it affected the quarterly ratings, and due to how short it is and how the main meat of that quarter was actually Hager vs Cutler chances are it had absolutely no effect and it was Hager vs Cutler which was actually chasing the viewers away.
> 
> But I do agree with the idea that dismissing someone's opinion entirely because they don't watch the show is incorrect. It's obviously going to be a lot less informed than someone who does watch it and that should be taken into account, but it also helps give an idea of how it is perceived by people who are not fans or fully aware, so should be payed attention to.


The implication is that people who don’t watch can’t have an opinion. It’s not the KO blow some people think it is.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> No the division sucks and we all know it, which is why some of you need to convince yourself once a week how good it's getting. Until it gets consistent stories and focus it's worthless.


Evidence backs up what ppl are saying. Top rated segment two weeks in a row having previously been lowest rated in past. Positivity on social media where as before ppl expressed displeasure. 
All you got is opinion which is becoming lone one.


----------



## Pippen94

Jman55 said:


> And all I did was agree with his point in a general sense I never specified you were doing that in this scenario maybe you were maybe you weren't I wouldn't know.
> 
> Since I decided to pop in may as well give an opinion of the overall ratings, they're looking solid. I can kinda see why people are talking about no growth and yeah they're mostly just holding steady right now and still need to make some changes to get that big push, but keeping steady at a good enough rating to be reasonably successful is still a good thing and AEW deserves to be proud they're doing that even if based on what little I understand of the Nielson system it is kind of outdated in general (maybe AEW would be doing worse or even better with a more modern way of measuring ratings? who knows I sure don't this isn't a subject I'm exactly an expert in)
> 
> People do seem to overhype how well they are doing sometimes but they are doing pretty ok for themselves from what I understand even if people were hoping they'd turn out to be something bigger, never expected they'd be a true challenger to WWE for a long time if ever anyway and frankly they don't need to be.


Steady cable ratings in 2021 are as good as growing.


----------



## Pippen94

3venflow said:


> Interesting snippet from a Tony Khan interview where he said it was TNT's idea to name the new streaming show Dark: Elevation to keep it in brand with Dark.
> 
> Sounds like TNT are very invested in AEW and it also sounds like the new TV show will be on their channel (rather than elsewhere on the WarnerMedia platforms) judging by the quotes.
> 
> Khan: “So, you’ll have the two Dark properties and the two TNT properties and I’m really excited about it. I think we’re ready for it.”
> 
> “It was TNT’s idea, I’ll be 100% honest. I originally had the title Elevation and they’re right, the executives made a great point to me, ‘You don’t want to create confusion with different brands.’ Elevation is an extension of Dark so they essentially said, ‘Call it AEW Dark: Elevation.’ And I said that’s a great idea.”


Warner can see aew fans potentially boasting streaming service in future.


----------



## CM Buck

Two Sheds said:


> Hey @Firefromthegods. you know I hate complaining but if good posters like @Chip Chipperson are going to get banned, and I am going to be told not to call out kids for being children, can we be consistent and tell this person to also lay off the personal attacks outside of Rants? I would hate to see more of a double standard foment here.


He got a week


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Evidence backs up what ppl are saying. Top rated segment two weeks in a row having previously been lowest rated in past. Positivity on social media where as before ppl expressed displeasure.
> All you got is opinion which is becoming lone one.


So we're doing numbers equal quality. Okay so you agree that Dynamite is the 3rd best wrestling show in the US right?


----------



## Klitschko

RapShepard said:


> So we're doing numbers equal quality. Okay so you agree that Dynamite is the 3rd best wrestling show in the US right?


Oh snap.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Evidence backs up what ppl are saying. Top rated segment two weeks in a row having previously been lowest rated in past. Positivity on social media where as before ppl expressed displeasure.
> All you got is opinion which is becoming lone one.


Positivity on social media is completely subjective. I’m not a fan of the women’s division at all. I see lots of negativity. It’s been the highest rated segment in the past too.



Pippen94 said:


> Steady cable ratings in 2021 are as good as growing.


No, steady ratings are steady. Growing ratings are growing.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> So we're doing numbers equal quality. Okay so you agree that Dynamite is the 3rd best wrestling show in the US right?


Raw ratings declining dramatically year on year tells me product not improving.
Same token, women going from lowest to highest rated segment accords with view that divison greatly improved


----------



## Klitschko

Smackdown ratings are pretty steady though.


----------



## RapShepard

RapShepard said:


> So we're doing numbers equal quality. Okay so you agree that Dynamite is the 3rd best wrestling show in the US right?





Pippen94 said:


> Raw ratings declining dramatically year on year tells me product not improving.
> Same token, women going from lowest to highest rated segment accords with view that divison greatly improved


I asked you a simple question now answer it before we go further in this discussion. If you subscribe to the idea that numbers decide quality, do you agree that Dynamite is personally your 3rd favorite US wrestling show currently? 

No deflecting Raw and SmackDowns number blows Dynamite away, are they your #1 and #2 US wrestling shows with this evidence?


----------



## ripcitydisciple

RapShepard said:


> So we're doing numbers equal quality. Okay so you agree that Dynamite is the 3rd best wrestling show in the US right?


You know what, people like you piss me the fuck off. People who can't handle the fact someone may actually enjoy something you don't and then have this need to get those people to admit fault in the very thing they enjoy. Like its a validation in what you believe.

Pippen was speaking solely about the women's matches. Not AEW as a whole. So why don't you respond to that? You're bullshit question has no relevancy to his post. His post was pointing out that before, the amount of viewers that would watch a women's match were lower than other matches at the time. Now more viewers are staying during the women's matches because they enjoy what they are seeing. That mean's their is improvement being made in the division. It is retaining viewers. That is a positive. Just because you think the division sucks doesn't mean your word is the end all be all. 

Who the fuck are you to define what quality and what they enjoy mean's to anybody?


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> I asked you a simple question now answer it before we go further in this discussion. If you subscribe to the idea that numbers decide quality, do you agree that Dynamite is personally your 3rd favorite US wrestling show currently?
> 
> No deflecting Raw and SmackDowns number blows Dynamite away, are they your #1 and #2 US wrestling shows with this evidence?


Your argument is completely stupid & I gave you an out to focus on the direction of programming but you foolish didn't take it.

Lots of factors why aew doesn't get rating no less because other brand has existed nationally since 1983 & had more time to build fanbase as seen by huge advantage in 50+.

In any case this is irreverent because we're talking about aew women's division & it's improvement as seen in ratings. You got any evidence to back up view or you just keep performing mental gymnastics?!


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Women's segment top rated again this week. Que @RapShepard to do a 180 from yesterday & say they're doing better with division


This is Pippen above



ripcitydisciple said:


> You know what, people like you piss me the fuck off. People who can't handle the fact someone may actually enjoy something you don't and then have this need to get those people to admit fault in the very thing they enjoy. Like its a validation in what you believe.
> 
> Pippen was speaking solely about the women's matches. Not AEW as a whole. So why don't you respond to that? You're bullshit question has no relevancy to his post. His post was pointing out that before, the amount of viewers that would watch a women's match were lower than other matches at the time. Now more viewers are staying during the women's matches because they enjoy what they are seeing. That mean's their is improvement being made in the division. It is retaining viewers. That is a positive. Just because you think the division sucks doesn't mean your word is the end all be all.
> 
> Who the fuck are you to define what quality and what they enjoy mean's to anybody?


Randomly trying to come at me because the women's division sucks using limited examples of "hey a couple times they had the highest rated segment". That doesn't change my opinion, you're throwing a hissy fit because his flawed logic got flipped against him. And yes if you have to explain a division is improving weekly, it's probably not a good division. 

You don't see weekly "hey the tag division is improving" threads because outside of people that really dislike AEW it's widely acknowledged they got the best tag team division going in the states. The women's division isn't good and the constant "hey look at all these bodies they have" and "hey look at these solid matches they have". Until the division has actual real focus and storylines it's a trash division.


----------



## Pippen94

ripcitydisciple said:


> You know what, people like you piss me the fuck off. People who can't handle the fact someone may actually enjoy something you don't and then have this need to get those people to admit fault in the very thing they enjoy. Like its a validation in what you believe.
> 
> Pippen was speaking solely about the women's matches. Not AEW as a whole. So why don't you respond to that? You're bullshit question has no relevancy to his post. His post was pointing out that before, the amount of viewers that would watch a women's match were lower than other matches at the time. Now more viewers are staying during the women's matches because they enjoy what they are seeing. That mean's their is improvement being made in the division. It is retaining viewers. That is a positive. Just because you think the division sucks doesn't mean your word is the end all be all.
> 
> Who the fuck are you to define what quality and what they enjoy mean's to anybody?


Yep - complete deflection to ignore ratings proving him wrong


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Your argument is completely stupid & I gave you an out to focus on the direction of programming but you foolish didn't take it.
> 
> Lots of factors why aew doesn't get rating no less because other brand has existed nationally since 1983 & had more time to build fanbase as seen by huge advantage in 50+.
> 
> In any case this is irreverent because we're talking about aew women's division & it's improvement as seen in ratings. You got any evidence to back up view or you just keep performing mental gymnastics?!


Nah you know your argument is pointless you're using limited times they've had the highest segment to show improvement and quality. So if we we're going to play the ratings numbers determines quality let's play it all the way through. Except you don't want to do that, because then you might have to say some things you don't believe, because numbers don't decide your opinion of quality. 

Until they get consistent focus and stories they're not a good division. Saying "but they have 30k more viewers the the next biggest segment" isn't going to make me go "well golly gee this division is great".


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Raw ratings declining dramatically year on year tells me product not improving.
> Same token, women going from lowest to highest rated segment accords with view that divison greatly improved


This is confirmation bias and a half. You’re starting with the aaaumption that Raw is a bad show, then finding something that you allege proves that.



ripcitydisciple said:


> You know what, people like you piss me the fuck off. People who can't handle the fact someone may actually enjoy something you don't and then have this need to get those people to admit fault in the very thing they enjoy. Like its a validation in what you believe.
> 
> Pippen was speaking solely about the women's matches. Not AEW as a whole. So why don't you respond to that? You're bullshit question has no relevancy to his post. His post was pointing out that before, the amount of viewers that would watch a women's match were lower than other matches at the time. Now more viewers are staying during the women's matches because they enjoy what they are seeing. That mean's their is improvement being made in the division. It is retaining viewers. That is a positive. Just because you think the division sucks doesn't mean your word is the end all be all.
> 
> Who the fuck are you to define what quality and what they enjoy mean's to anybody?


If you’re going to assert that rising and falling trends are directly linked to quality, you have to follow that to its logical conclusion: Raw and SmackDown are better shows and AEW has been, by and large, getting worse. 



RapShepard said:


> This is Pippen above
> 
> 
> 
> Randomly trying to come at me because the women's division sucks using limited examples of "hey a couple times they had the highest rated segment". That doesn't change my opinion, you're throwing a hissy fit because his flawed logic got flipped against him. And yes if you have to explain a division is improving weekly, it's probably not a good division.
> 
> You don't see weekly "hey the tag division is improving" threads because outside of people that really dislike AEW it's widely acknowledged they got the best tag team division going in the states. The women's division isn't good and the constant "hey look at all these bodies they have" and "hey look at these solid matches they have". Until the division has actual real focus and storylines it's a trash division.


I’ll take the SmackDown division and build off that. But agree with everything else.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

RapShepard said:


> This is Pippen above
> 
> 
> 
> Randomly trying to come at me because the women's division sucks using limited examples of "hey a couple times they had the highest rated segment". That doesn't change my opinion, you're throwing a hissy fit because his flawed logic got flipped against him. And yes if you have to explain a division is improving weekly, it's probably not a good division.
> 
> You don't see weekly "hey the tag division is improving" threads because outside of people that really dislike AEW it's widely acknowledged they got the best tag team division going in the states. The women's division isn't good and the constant "hey look at all these bodies they have" and "hey look at these solid matches they have". Until the division has actual real focus and storylines it's a trash division.


How about this to make it perfectly clear: 

GO FUCK YOURSELF. 

You will never dictate to me what I am allowed to find entertaining or enjoyable. You saying the division is trash because it doesn't live up to 'your standards' mean's absolutely nothing to the actual state of the division itself.


----------



## CM Buck

ripcitydisciple said:


> How about this to make it perfectly clear:
> 
> GO FUCK YOURSELF.
> 
> You will never dictate to me what I am allowed to find entertaining or enjoyable. You saying the division is trash because it doesn't live up to 'your standards' mean's absolutely nothing to the actual state of the division itself.


How about this to make it perfectly clear:

CALM THE FUCK DOWN.

Jesus christ you lot need to stop being so fucking sensitive about opinions


----------



## RapShepard

The Wood said:


> I’ll take the SmackDown division and build off that. But agree with everything else.


Nah WWE's main roster tags get the same heat for me as AEW's women's division. Sure they got folk, but if they're not being used consistently in interesting stories and getting fair focus then it's worthless. These respective divisions suffer from the fact the solid matches they provide aren't attached to stories that would actually serve to make what's going on memorable. 



ripcitydisciple said:


> How about this to make it perfectly clear:
> 
> GO FUCK YOURSELF.
> 
> You will never dictate to me what I am allowed to find entertaining or enjoyable. You saying the division is trash because it doesn't live up to 'your standards' mean's absolutely nothing to the actual state of the division itself.


Lmao somebody's upset. If you like it then like it. I think the division is clearly trash and I'm not going to sugarcoat that just because it upsets you to read that. I'm not going to preface every post with IMO. If you like the division cool. I still stand by its trash and we all know it, because of previously stated reasons. If you don't like that opinion tough you'll live.


----------



## The Wood

ripcitydisciple said:


> How about this to make it perfectly clear:
> 
> GO FUCK YOURSELF.
> 
> You will never dictate to me what I am allowed to find entertaining or enjoyable. You saying the division is trash because it doesn't live up to 'your standards' mean's absolutely nothing to the actual state of the division itself.


What a wildly irrational response lol.


----------



## Pippen94

Klitschko said:


> Smackdown ratings are pretty steady though.


Not cable which is affected harder because of cord cutting


----------



## MoxAsylum

ripcitydisciple said:


> How about this to make it perfectly clear:
> 
> GO FUCK YOURSELF.
> 
> You will never dictate to me what I am allowed to find entertaining or enjoyable. You saying the division is trash because it doesn't live up to 'your standards' mean's absolutely nothing to the actual state of the division itself.


What a tough guy


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> Nah you know your argument is pointless you're using limited times they've had the highest segment to show improvement and quality. So if we we're going to play the ratings numbers determines quality let's play it all the way through. Except you don't want to do that, because then you might have to say some things you don't believe, because numbers don't decide your opinion of quality.
> 
> Until they get consistent focus and stories they're not a good division. Saying "but they have 30k more viewers the the next biggest segment" isn't going to make me go "well golly gee this division is great".


Going from regularly lowest rated segment in 2020 to very top last two weeks (britt-rosa did well recently also) is seismic shift & provides support for argument that division has improved that your side can't claim.

You're free to like whatever takes your fancy but for a business like aew; data>your opinion everytime


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Going from regularly lowest rated segment in 2020 to very top last two weeks (britt-rosa did well recently also) is seismic shift & provides support for argument that division has improved that your side can't claim.
> 
> You're free to like whatever takes your fancy but for a business like aew; data>your opinion everytime


You are making the data say what you want it to say though. My “regular fans + perverts” theory works just as well. I also wouldn’t call any of these numbers “seismic.” It’s a few homes, dude.


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Going from regularly lowest rated segment in 2020 to very top last two weeks (britt-rosa did well recently also) is seismic shift & provides support for argument that division has improved that your side can't claim.
> 
> You're free to like whatever takes your fancy but for a business like aew; data>your opinion everytime


1 and 2 off examples doesn't support much long time data wise. You're sounding like the type of person that will see a bench player have a few good games, and immediately claim that it's clearly time they become a starter. 

But again let's follow to the logical conclusion. The women are currently doing at least some good business for AEW, by occasionally having some of the highest rated segments on TV. Okay then why aren't AEW rewarding this success with things like more TV time and proper focus via fully fleshed out stories so they can get the most out of their highly rated female wrestlers?

If they can pop a segment with just a match, imagine what they could do if they actually got behind the division with stories and focus. But instead they hamper it by silly decisions. They push Britt a lot but cut her off anytime a match that matters comes up. They want the belt on Shida, but for some reason can consistently get her a story. For fucks sake in the summer she spent time sitting in the crowd, meanwhile an injured Britt was having a feud with Swole built weekly. 

The improvements that matter for the division will be stories that matter and focus. Solid matches are cool, but matches with no story are forgettable.


----------



## DammitChrist

Two Sheds said:


> Hey @Firefromthegods. you know I hate complaining but if *good posters like @Chip Chipperson *are going to get banned, and I am going to be told not to call out kids for being children, can we be consistent and tell this person to also lay off the personal attacks outside of Rants? I would hate to see more of a double standard foment here.


While we're discussing about how well they are still doing with the ratings atm (especially with how Britt Baker and Nyla Rose apparently held up the viewership this week), just know that the bolded statement is completely wrong.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> While we're discussing about how well they are still doing with the ratings atm (especially with how Britt Baker and Nyla Rose apparently held up the viewership this week), just know that the bolded statement is completely wrong.


We will all be waiting in anticipation for you to actually post an objective statement on here. As bad as RAW is, they are doing 1.6-1.7 times as good as Dynamite is doing. You sure you want to make an argument that the programs with the best ratings are a direct result of quality? AEW is not going to be winning in that race.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> What a wildly irrational response lol.


It's probably the most rational post here on this page tbh. You should take notes.

His/her intentions were good 



Two Sheds said:


> We will all be waiting in anticipation for you to actually post an objective statement on here. As bad as RAW is, they are doing 1.6-1.7 times as good as Dynamite is doing. You sure you want to make an argument that the programs with the best ratings are a direct result of quality? AEW is not going to be winning in that race.


Quantity don't equate to quality, m8.

Otherwise, Dynamite and NXT would be on par with Smackdown with 2+ million views since those 3 are the most consistent, good wrestling shows on TV whereas Raw would struggle to keep 1 million views due to their inconsistency.

I actually had to explain to Bray Wyatt fans and Alexa Bliss fans earlier today that Raw being the 2nd highest rated show doesn't automatically make it the 2nd best show to watch quality-wise (especially since both of those fanbases tend to rely on numbers in order to validate their support for their favorites, which is quite sad for those specific fans).

Anyway, numbers can be quite deceiving since plenty of folks keep confusing quantity and quality. Dynamite and NXT are lower in quantity atm, but both of those shows definitely blow Raw out of the water in terms of quality.

For the record, folks like yourself can keep on waiting btw. I'll criticize the product on *my *terms, but definitely not on yours


----------



## La Parka

ripcitydisciple said:


> How about this to make it perfectly clear:
> 
> GO FUCK YOURSELF.
> 
> You will never dictate to me what I am allowed to find entertaining or enjoyable. You saying the division is trash because it doesn't live up to 'your standards' mean's absolutely nothing to the actual state of the division itself.


Lmaoooo


----------



## DammitChrist

MoxAsylum said:


> What a tough guy


He's much tougher than you for sure since your mediocre gimmick is to whine about everything 



La Parka said:


> Lmaoooo


Yep, I agree with this. It's hilarious how his understandable comment seem to have ruffled some feathers here :lol


----------



## The Wood

Dammit, stop saying something is true just because you said it. You’re not an authority on anything. You’ll accuse others of doing the same, but they actually back their arguments up with some sort of meat. You will just make posts that come from the position of authority.

The whole quality over quantity argument, while clunky here and awkwardly applied to the size of fanbases, is exactly the point Rap was trying to make earlier.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

The Wood said:


> Dammit, stop saying something is true just because you said it. You’re not an authority on anything.


You got some real fucking nerve saying this lmao.


----------



## CM Buck

DammitChrist said:


> He's much tougher than you for sure since your mediocre gimmick is to whine about everything
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, I agree with this. It's hilarious how his understandable comment seem to have ruffled some feathers here :lol


No it was unnecessary. You guys taking shots at each other over something as trivial as wrestling is completely unnecessary.

You all need to get the fuck over yourselves and grow up. 

Cat fighting over numbers is pathetic


----------



## MoxleyMoxx

Nyla the draw. You love to see it


----------



## ripcitydisciple

Firefromthegods said:


> How about this to make it perfectly clear:
> 
> CALM THE FUCK DOWN.
> 
> Jesus christ you lot need to stop being so fucking sensitive about opinions


It's not about being sensitive about other's opinions that you don't agree with. There are people I don't agree with on this very forum. Never told them to 'go fuck themselves. People like Chip, etc. who I did not like whatsoever. It is about him flat out implying that he can force you to do what he wants. How to think and do and act. That he can dominate you. If he thinks he can dominate me I'd like to see him try because what he believes and what reality actually is would be two very different outcomes.

That is the problem with this society today. With all the participation trophies and everyone get's a gold star and 'you're special', that everything should be just handed to you because someone else got what you didn't and that hurt your pride and ego and all the other crap that has been programmed and hammered into every one's skulls for decades has created this egotistic, self-centered, self absorbed sense of entitlement that allows people to believe they have the right to control another person's life if you don't think how they do. believe what they do.

And when you don't

Place labels.

Ostracize.

DOMINATE


That is all cancel culture is: The act and feeling of thinking you have the right and authority to dominate another human being who doesn't share the same ideals, beliefs and philosophies as you do.

So someone who make's the inference that they can dominate me like Rap just did isn't going to receive a friendly or courteous response and he's lying if he says he wouldn't react the same in the exact position.


----------



## 3venflow

Some updated AEW ratings from the UK, where it airs on ITV4 on a two-day delay. These do not count FITE TV subs obviously, which is where those like myself prefer to watch it ad-free and live.

It remains the most watched wrestling show in the UK, largely because it's on free-to-air, albeit ITV's fourth channel usually after 11pm.

WWE RAW and Smackdown live on BT Sport (pay TV) has fluctuating ratings that can do anything between 27,000 and 60,000. NXT live pretty much never charts anymore so it's hard to know what it does, but when it did chart it was between 20,000 and 33,000. IMPACT on Freesport (not pay TV) does between 8,000 and 12,000.

February 22: 124,000
February 15: 144,000
February 8: 91,000
February 1: 114,000
January 25: did not chart (less than 103,000 which is what the #50 show rated)
January 18: 115,000
January 11: did not chart
January 4: 98,000
December 21: 150,000
December 14: 138,000
December 7: 135,000
November 30: 164,000
November 23: 143,000
November 16: 99,000
November 9: 123,000
November 2: 155,000


----------



## ripcitydisciple

RapShepard said:


> Nah WWE's main roster tags get the same heat for me as AEW's women's division. Sure they got folk, but if they're not being used consistently in interesting stories and getting fair focus then it's worthless. These respective divisions suffer from the fact the solid matches they provide aren't attached to stories that would actually serve to make what's going on memorable.
> 
> 
> 
> Lmao somebody's upset. If you like it then like it. I think the division is clearly trash and I'm not going to sugarcoat that just because it upsets you to read that. I'm not going to preface every post with IMO. If you like the division cool. I still stand by its trash and we all know it, because of previously stated reasons. If you don't like that opinion tough you'll live.


You tacking 'and we all know it' at the end when saying I am and others like Pippen and DC, etc, are allowed to have different opinions then you isn't you allowing it. It is you 'stating a fact'. YOU'RE FACT, that then everyone is obligated to believe and admit too. Because you say it doesn't make it _the _truth. Or fact.


----------



## Klitschko

ripcitydisciple said:


> It's not about being sensitive about other's opinions that you don't agree with. There are people I don't agree with on this very forum. Never told them to 'go fuck themselves. People like Chip, etc. who I did not like whatsoever. It is about him flat out implying that he can force you to do what he wants. How to think and do and act. That he can dominate you. If he thinks he can dominate me I'd like to see him try because what he believes and what reality actually is would be two very different outcomes.
> 
> That is the problem with this society today. With all the participation trophies and everyone get's a gold star and 'you're special', that everything should be just handed to you because someone else got what you didn't and that hurt your pride and ego and all the other crap that has been programmed and hammered into every one's skulls for decades has created this egotistic, self-centered, self absorbed sense of entitlement that allows people to believe they have the right to control another person's life if you don't think how they do. believe what they do.
> 
> And when you don't
> 
> Place labels.
> 
> Ostracize.
> 
> DOMINATE
> 
> 
> That is all cancel culture is: The act and feeling of thinking you have the right and authority to dominate another human being who doesn't share the same ideals, beliefs and philosophies as you do.
> 
> So someone who make's the inference that they can dominate me like Rap just did isn't going to receive a friendly or courteous response and he's lying if he says he wouldn't react the same in the exact position.


All I got from his post is he doesn't agree with your views about their women's division. Nothing deeper then that.


----------



## yeahright2

DammitChrist said:


> I actually had to explain to Bray Wyatt fans and Alexa Bliss fans earlier today that Raw being the 2nd highest rated show doesn't automatically make it the 2nd best show to watch quality-wise (especially since both of those fanbases tend to rely on numbers in order to validate their support for their favorites, which is quite sad for those specific fans).


LOL, that´s cute coming from and AEW superfan who every week brags about how AEW beat NXT in ratings...
And just to get this out of the way immediately so I don´t get accused of being a WWE Mark; Bray Wyatt and the Fiend is probably the worst gimmick WWE has done in years and they should be ashamed to put that crap on national TV.


----------



## DammitChrist

yeahright2 said:


> LOL, that´s cute coming from and AEW superfan who every week brags about how AEW beat NXT in ratings...
> *And just to get this out of the way immediately so I don´t get accused of being a WWE Mark; Bray Wyatt and the Fiend is probably the worst gimmick WWE has done in years and they should be ashamed to put that crap on national TV.*


Now THAT'S something that is really accurate, and that we can actually agree on regarding this post


----------



## Klitschko

Saw Smackdown last night. Good show. Isn't it funny how that section is completely dead on this forum? If you didn't know their ratings, and just went by this forum you would think they were a dead company like Impact. 3 pages for the Smackdown thread on here yet their rating was 2 million again. 

Anyways, to get back on topic. I'm going with 880k for next weeks Dynamite.


----------



## yeahright2

Klitschko said:


> Saw Smackdown last night. Good show. Isn't it funny how that section is completely dead on this forum? If you didn't know their ratings, and just went by this forum you would think they were a dead company like Impact. 3 pages for the Smackdown thread on here yet their rating was 2 million again.
> 
> Anyways, to get back on topic. I'm going with 880k for next weeks Dynamite.


Someone need to make a separate thread for the prediction game 

Maybe casual fans doesn´t visit forums?


----------



## Not Lying

Klitschko said:


> Saw Smackdown last night. Good show. Isn't it funny how that section is completely dead on this forum? If you didn't know their ratings, and just went by this forum you would think they were a dead company like Impact. 3 pages for the Smackdown thread on here yet their rating was 2 million again.
> 
> Anyways, to get back on topic. I'm going with 880k for next weeks Dynamite.


Smackdown has been consistently a good show for a while, I enjoy watching it Saturday mornings, it's got a deep talented roster good to fill out the 2h show and it's well written. Main event stuff now with Bryan/Reigns/Edge, Cesaro/Rollins and Sasha/Bianca upper-cards, Big E as IC champ, Zayn consistently getting TV time and making the best of it.
Even the stuff I least cared about (Apolllo Crews heel turn) was actually pretty good, and would be a top segment on RAW. 
The commentary in WWE is horrible though and it's just cringe (Cole sucks).


----------



## One Shed

The Definition of Technician said:


> Smackdown has been consistently a good show for a while, I enjoy watching it Saturday mornings, it's got a deep talented roster good to fill out the 2h show and it's well written. Main event stuff now with Bryan/Reigns/Edge, Cesaro/Rollins and Sasha/Bianca upper-cards, Big E as IC champ, Zayn consistently getting TV time and making the best of it.
> Even the stuff I least cared about (Apolllo Crews heel turn) was actually pretty good, and would be a top segment on RAW.
> The commentary in WWE is horrible though and it's just cringe (Cole sucks).


My issue with Smackdown is it is on Friday night so I am almost never going to see it live. I actually like the live threads and so not being able to post in the live thread for Smackdown kills a lot of my interest in that section. I do generally like the show better now though when I do eventually watch it. You are spot on though about the announcers. No one sucks more than Michael Cole.


----------



## RapShepard

ripcitydisciple said:


> You tacking 'and we all know it' at the end when saying I am and others like Pippen and DC, etc, are allowed to have different opinions then you isn't you allowing it. It is you 'stating a fact'. YOU'RE FACT, that then everyone is obligated to believe and admit too. Because you say it doesn't make it _the _truth. Or fact.


We do all know it, which is why some spend so much time trying to convince themselves it's improving weekly. But if you enjoy it go head.


----------



## Dr. Middy

RapShepard said:


> We do all know it, which is why some spend so much time trying to convince themselves it's improving weekly. But if you enjoy it go head.


I mean, comparing it to a year ago I'd say it is for sure, but they have a lot of work to do. They have some better workers and some of the women they had like Nyla, Britt, and Tay have improved a lot, so the quality of match has improved. Granted the potential is there, seems like people tuned into the Nyla/Britt match from NXT if the quarter hours are to be believed.

But 100% agreed with others when they mention that they need to incorporate more stories into their programs instead of the few we see here or there. Like the stuff that Britt is doing was good, or what Abadon and Shida had even if the match was kinda meh.

Hopefully the tournament is a start of good things ahead.


----------



## The Wood

The Raw Smackdown said:


> You got some real fucking nerve saying this lmao.


I back up my opinions with reason and evidence. People don’t like it, because it’s often hard to argue with, but that has always been my modus operandi. I explain WHY I believe the key demo to be an archaic and fluffed up metric. Dammit will just quote people and say “Actually, that’s not true” and could never actually make a case as to why beyond complete subjectivity.



ripcitydisciple said:


> It's not about being sensitive about other's opinions that you don't agree with. There are people I don't agree with on this very forum. Never told them to 'go fuck themselves. People like Chip, etc. who I did not like whatsoever. It is about him flat out implying that he can force you to do what he wants. How to think and do and act. That he can dominate you. If he thinks he can dominate me I'd like to see him try because what he believes and what reality actually is would be two very different outcomes.
> 
> That is the problem with this society today. With all the participation trophies and everyone get's a gold star and 'you're special', that everything should be just handed to you because someone else got what you didn't and that hurt your pride and ego and all the other crap that has been programmed and hammered into every one's skulls for decades has created this egotistic, self-centered, self absorbed sense of entitlement that allows people to believe they have the right to control another person's life if you don't think how they do. believe what they do.
> 
> And when you don't
> 
> Place labels.
> 
> Ostracize.
> 
> DOMINATE
> 
> 
> That is all cancel culture is: The act and feeling of thinking you have the right and authority to dominate another human being who doesn't share the same ideals, beliefs and philosophies as you do.
> 
> So someone who make's the inference that they can dominate me like Rap just did isn't going to receive a friendly or courteous response and he's lying if he says he wouldn't react the same in the exact position.


This is insanity. Rap is one of the calmest and most reasonable posters on the entire forum. Pippen tried to used numbers as a measure of quality. Rap asked “What about Raw and SmackDown?”. He never said that you shouldn’t like Dynamite. His point is that there isn’t a direct causal link between a good quality show and better numbers.



3venflow said:


> No one made a bigger fuss of it than WWE/NXT's Pat McAfee, who produced a video to celebrate his Rookie of the Year award.


Pat McAfee would do cringe on purpose. It’s a bit like when people defended Kenny Omega for being an asshole “because he’s a heel” 18 months before his heel turn. 



Klitschko said:


> Saw Smackdown last night. Good show. Isn't it funny how that section is completely dead on this forum? If you didn't know their ratings, and just went by this forum you would think they were a dead company like Impact. 3 pages for the Smackdown thread on here yet their rating was 2 million again.
> 
> Anyways, to get back on topic. I'm going with 880k for next weeks Dynamite.


i think it’s a combo of casual fans and the just not driving up controversy.


----------



## Pippen94

RapShepard said:


> We do all know it, which is why some spend so much time trying to convince themselves it's improving weekly. But if you enjoy it go head.


Just coincidence ratings improved at same time ppl said division did too. Crazy to draw this conclusion rather than rely on your opinion


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Just coincidence ratings improved at same time ppl said division did too. Crazy to draw this conclusion rather than rely on your opinion


So is it a coincidence ratings for the show overall have gone down? Has AEW been getting worse overall? Correlation does not equal causation.


----------



## Pippen94

ripcitydisciple said:


> You tacking 'and we all know it' at the end when saying I am and others like Pippen and DC, etc, are allowed to have different opinions then you isn't you allowing it. It is you 'stating a fact'. YOU'RE FACT, that then everyone is obligated to believe and admit too. Because you say it doesn't make it _the _truth. Or fact.


Called know-it-all-ism


----------



## RapShepard

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> I mean, comparing it to a year ago I'd say it is for sure, but they have a lot of work to do. They have some better workers and some of the women they had like Nyla, Britt, and Tay have improved a lot, so the quality of match has improved. Granted the potential is there, seems like people tuned into the Nyla/Britt match from NXT if the quarter hours are to be believed.
> 
> But 100% agreed with others when they mention that they need to incorporate more stories into their programs instead of the few we see here or there. Like the stuff that Britt is doing was good, or what Abadon and Shida had even if the match was kinda meh.
> 
> Hopefully the tournament is a start of good things ahead.


But the thing is the improvement isn't where it really matters. More solid matches is a solid progression sure. Without stories and focus what does it really matter though. If somebody just watched Dynamite, by the end of the year they'll have seen about 250 AEW matches since most shows have at least 5 matches a show. 

250 matches is a lot of matches, unless you have a photogenic memory you're not going to remember all those matches. So what gets forgotten first are the solid matches that were attached to no story. That's because you have less things attached to it. 

They were on the right path when Shida was feuding with Abadon and Britt with Rosa, I gave that props. They had a logical next step of doing Britt vs Shida, instead pointless tournament.


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> Just coincidence ratings improved at same time ppl said division did too. Crazy to draw this conclusion rather than rely on your opinion


People have been screaming the women have been getting better every week since last spring though lol.


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Called know-it-all-ism


It’s called irony.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*"Women don't draw."

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365247268983476225*


----------



## The Wood

To be honest, that’s not really drawing on any sort of major level. 25k is chips and possibly doesn’t even reflect an actual growth since the ratings go 10% either way. They can get eyeballs because it’s an attraction at some level, but to say that they are inherently big time draws is getting ahead of things just a bit.


----------



## Not Lying

The Wood said:


> To be honest, that’s not really drawing on any sort of major level. 25k is chips and possibly doesn’t even reflect an actual growth since the ratings go 10% either way. They can get eyeballs because it’s an attraction at some level, but to say that they are inherently big time draws is getting ahead of things just a bit.


It's more to negate the BS that many women wrestling fans keep hearing about how "women are anti draws and channel changers". When for the past 6 years the WWE Women's division have proven they can draw if you give stories and characters to good talent. DMD is talented and established character and Nyla's unique in her own way and the match had stakes, so I'm not surprised it wasn't a turn off.

I've also looked into it in the past, the women revolution started with the call-up of Sasha, Becky and Charlotte in early July 15, the drop in viewership from June 2014-June 2015 (when women were still getting 5min on a 3h show) was bigger than the one from June 15-16. Ratings continued to decline but everytime I hear "women revolution has killed the ratings" make me cringe because people have no idea what they're talking about. It was declining and fast before all that.


----------



## The Wood

Some people like women’s wrestling and others have no interest in it. Very reductive to place it into one general overview, but there arguments both ways as to just how progressive it is or isn’t.


----------



## yeahright2

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *"Women don't draw."
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365247268983476225*


25K increase is nothing, but at least this match didn´t cost them viewers like that time WWE tried to have Charlotte at all shows, including NXT, and the ratings dropped


----------



## The Wood

Something to keep in mind — and I want to stress I am not specifically saying this about the women — sometimes a segment doing better, comparatively, is indicative that the majority of your program isn’t working.

If Joey Janela suddenly got 850k for his segments while the rest of the show got 750k, I wouldn’t be saying “Joey Janela is a draw!” I would be wondering what the hell is wrong with my show? And I’d also consider that there might be something _wrong_ with what is spiking.

Why? Because those people aren’t sticking around. They don’t like the _wrestling_ presentation. And it’s important to remember that they don’t necessary _like_ what they are watching. People will check things out with caution, for curiosity or as part of an irony bribe.

That is why not only being able to understand the data and how television works is important, but also having a good critical instinct and insight into your audiences and the impressions you’re giving them. It’s possible for something to be low-rated and good, as well as being high-rated and bad. It helps if you can amend your product with some sort of quality gauge, and trust in that overall direction.

It’s arguably a lot better to make a good impression on 600k people than it is to make a bad impression on 1.2 million. It’s also possible that the segment that spikes you up to 1.2 million is also being laughed at while the rest of your show is respected by those 600k people.

Again, not saying this about the women. But let’s use Sable as an example. Was she the second biggest ratings grabber for the WWF in 1998? Sure. But that goes to show how the rest of the product couldn’t keep the eyeballs she got, or that the eyeballs she got were simply not wrestling eyeballs — if you get what I mean? It didn’t necessarily imply quality or some movement swelling underneath. And it doesn’t with Orange Cassidy. For example.


----------



## Pippen94

yeahright2 said:


> 25K increase is nothing, but at least this match didn´t cost them viewers like that time WWE tried to have Charlotte at all shows, including NXT, and the ratings dropped


If you follow ratings you'd know that gap between top segments is probably no different to most weeks. 
Last year women's segment were lowest rated & losing viewers so should be comparing to lowest point


----------



## Klitschko

yeahright2 said:


> Someone need to make a separate thread for the prediction game
> 
> Maybe casual fans doesn´t visit forums?


That couldn't be it. We were told that there is no more casuals left in pro wrestling.


----------



## yeahright2

Pippen94 said:


> If you follow ratings you'd know that gap between top segments is probably no different to most weeks.
> Last year women's segment were lowest rated & losing viewers so should be comparing to lowest point


You again? I´d prefer it if you just put me on ignore so you don´t see my posts. You add nothing to the discussion.
I actually complemented the match by pointing out how they DIDN`T lose viewers.


----------



## rbl85

I think we (me included) all have a problem with the definition of a draw.

I don't think a draw is someone who's quarter gain 10,15 30k, this is not being a draw that's just being popular in the population who's already watching the show.

let's say a man or woman start to appear every week on the show and all of a sudden the weekly rating jump from 800k to 1M, then you can say this wrestler is a draw because people who were not watching the show started to watch the show for this wrestler.


----------



## yeahright2

rbl85 said:


> I think we (me included) all have a problem with the definition of a draw.
> 
> I don't think a draw is someone who's quarter gain 10,15 30k, this is not being a draw that's just being popular in the population who's already watching the show.
> 
> let's say a man or woman start to appear every week on the show and all of a sudden the weekly rating jump from 800k to 1K, then you can say this wrestler is a draw because people who were not watching the show started to watch the show for this wrestler.


I just said the same thing in a drawing power thread in the WWE section


----------



## Pippen94

rbl85 said:


> I think we (me included) all have a problem with the definition of a draw.
> 
> I don't think a draw is someone who's quarter gain 10,15 30k, this is not being a draw that's just being popular in the population who's already watching the show.
> 
> let's say a man or woman start to appear every week on the show and all of a sudden the weekly rating jump from 800k to 1K, then you can say this wrestler is a draw because people who were not watching the show started to watch the show for this wrestler.


This is wrong. 
Gains can be result of commercial break on rival show or fact talking segments generally rate lower. Highest rated segment of either show is usually over run for wwe with aew switching over.
In light of that long term treads are best way to determine popularity of act. Last year women's segment almost always lowest rated. This year that has flipped.


----------



## Pippen94

yeahright2 said:


> You again? I´d prefer it if you just put me on ignore so you don´t see my posts. You add nothing to the discussion.
> I actually complemented the match by pointing out how they DIDN`T lose viewers.


I only ignore one poster who doesn't watch product but is section's most frequent poster.
If somebody says something about ratings which I feel is uniformed I don't see that as reason to block.
We're talking about improvement in women's rating - comparing to next rated segment serves no purpose.


----------



## rbl85

Pippen94 said:


> This is wrong.
> Gains can be result of commercial break on rival show or fact talking segments generally rate lower. Highest rated segment of either show is usually over run for wwe with aew switching over.
> In light of that long term treads are best way to determine popularity of act. Last year women's segment almost always lowest rated. This year that has flipped.


I mean if the overall rating of a show goes from 800K weekly to 1 million


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> I think we (me included) all have a problem with the definition of a draw.
> 
> I don't think a draw is someone who's quarter gain 10,15 30k, this is not being a draw that's just being popular in the population who's already watching the show.
> 
> let's say a man or woman start to appear every week on the show and all of a sudden the weekly rating jump from 800k to 1M, then you can say this wrestler is a draw because people who were not watching the show started to watch the show for this wrestler.


This is probably your best post ever.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

sooo... Paul has a debut this week

big numbers?

anything happening on the news or NBA that is massive?


----------



## omaroo

Cant see paul white bringing in big rating if I am being honest.

Is he even popular and relevant today?


----------



## Chan Hung

LifeInCattleClass said:


> sooo... Paul has a debut this week
> 
> big numbers?
> 
> anything happening on the news or NBA that is massive?


Shaq too on Dynamite. It should draw past 1 million


----------



## Shock Street

Chan Hung said:


> Shaq too on Dynamite. It should draw past 1 million


I really wish they kept Big Show secret and had him come out as a surprise after the Cody and Shaq match, woulda been nuts


----------



## ripcitydisciple

Shock Street said:


> I really wish they kept Big Show secret and had him come out as a surprise after the Cody and Shaq match, woulda been nuts


Then you would've had people going, 'LOL!!! Look at AEW and Tony Khan trying to make broken down Big Slow into a big deal in 2021! HAHAHAHAHAH!'


----------



## Shock Street

ripcitydisciple said:


> Then you would've had people going, 'LOL!!! Look at AEW and Tony Khan trying to make broken down Big Slow into a big deal in 2021! HAHAHAHAHAH!'


...We literally already have people doing that though. It would have happened either way.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

Shock Street said:


> ...We literally already have people doing that though. It would have happened either way.


I know that. It is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The Wood said:


> Some people like women’s wrestling and others have no interest in it. Very reductive to place it into one general overview, but there arguments both ways as to just how progressive it is or isn’t.


Now factor how many have quit watching completely because of it. I know several.


----------



## The Wood

ripcitydisciple said:


> Then you would've had people going, 'LOL!!! Look at AEW and Tony Khan trying to make broken down Big Slow into a big deal in 2021! HAHAHAHAHAH!'


Don’t put words into other people’s mouths. It didn’t happen that way, he didn’t say it.



TKO Wrestling said:


> Now factor how many have quit watching completely because of it. I know several.


I don’t know any personally, but I do know women who think the “rah-rah” of promoting scantily clad women beating the shit out of each other and trying to fit into a man’s world is not exactly progressive.

Personally, I’ve got no problem with women’s wrestling. There’s no reason two highly trained athletes can’t have a match with a story attached that draws you into their issue. Especially when it’s got an organic approach and the personalities are booked as to who they are. Awesome Kong and Gail Kim were a great example of that.


----------



## VIP86

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *"Women don't draw."
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365247268983476225*


although the match was good and probably the best on the show
but this is not a proof that the Women are a draw (because they're not)
this is a proof that the rest of the show was really bad
in fact the show has become really bad to the point that the women division now is not the weak link in AEW


----------



## rbl85

VIP86 said:


> although the match was good and probably the best on the show
> but this is not a proof that the Women are a draw (because they're not)
> this is a proof that the rest of the show was really bad
> *in fact the show has become really bad to the point that the women division now is not the weak link in AEW*


Big fat LOL


----------



## VIP86

rbl85 said:


> Big fat LOL


it hurts hearing the truth, doesn't it ?
don't worry you'll get over it 
the sooner you accept the reality the better


----------



## DammitChrist

VIP86 said:


> *it hurts hearing the truth, doesn't it ?*
> don't worry you'll get over it
> the sooner you accept the reality the better


There is no "hurt" if there's no truth at all.


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> There is no "hurt" if there's no truth at all.


oh but it IS the truth
you have a big problem when a women's match is the best thing on your show because of the poor quality of almost everything else
it's basically WWE 2.0 (weddings, midgets, bad comedy, lack of attention to details. ...etc)
and don't even get me started about the multi-man matches fetish they have


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

VIP86 said:


> although the match was good and probably the best on the show
> but this is not a proof that the Women are a draw (because they're not)
> this is a proof that the rest of the show was really bad
> in fact the show has become really bad to the point that the women division now is not the weak link in AEW


*This is the second consecutive week the women pulled the highest ratings. Shida and Abadon also did it back in November. Stop the bullshit.*


----------



## VIP86

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *This is the second consecutive week the women pulled the highest ratings. Shida and Abadon also did it back in November. Stop the bullshit.*


first: women wrestling is not a draw, just because you like it doesn't make true
or else the women's wrestling promotions out there would've got the same attention
second: they pulled the highest ratings because the rest of the show was that bad and the women matches were the serious ones
nobody would give a shit about two girls having a cat fight in a ring if the rest of the show had something that made sense


----------



## Pippen94

VIP86 said:


> first: women wrestling is not a draw, just because you like it doesn't make true
> or else the women's wrestling promotions out there would've got the same attention
> second: they pulled the highest ratings because the rest of the show was that bad and the women matches were the serious ones
> nobody would give a shit about two girls having a cat fight in a ring if the rest of the show had something that made sense


Ratings were up; last year average was 0.31. Last week rating was 0.35.


----------



## VIP86

Pippen94 said:


> Ratings were up; last year average was 0.31. Last week rating was 0.35.


if you want to play a numbers game
one could say last year they started with 1.4 million and now it's regularly in the 700 & 800 range
would i hate for them to reach 1.4 million again ? of course not
but it won't happen as long they are imitating WWE since WWE's ratings are constantly dropping
so clearly they are at the wrong path


----------



## Pippen94

VIP86 said:


> if you want to play a numbers game
> one could say last year they started with 1.4 million and now it's regularly in the 700 & 800 range
> would i hate for them to reach 1.4 million again ? of course not
> but it won't happen as long they are imitating WWE since WWE's ratings are constantly dropping
> so clearly they are at the wrong path


No, because 1.4 million was 2019 & has nothing to do with what you're saying anyway.

You said rest of show dropped rather than women gained. Can't be as show last week outdid 2020 numbers.


----------



## VIP86

Pippen94 said:


> No, because 1.4 million was 2019 & has nothing to do with what you're saying anyway.
> 
> You said rest of show dropped rather than women gained. Can't be as show last week outdid 2020 numbers.


can you please read what you just said
you brought up the rating and i answered with the same logic
so you want to turn back and tell me it has nothing to do with what i'm saying, are you serious ?
if it has nothing to do with the subject, then why YOU brought it up in the first place

and just to show you that playing a numbers game is not in your favor
here is a sample from the same period last year
wednesday march 4 2020
viewers 906,000
Demo 0.35

now the current episode rating
wednesday february 24 2021
viewers 831,000
Demo 0.35


----------



## Pippen94

VIP86 said:


> can you please read what you just said
> you brought up the rating and i answered with the same logic
> so you want to turn back and tell me it has nothing to do with what i'm saying, are you serious ?
> if it has nothing to do with the subject, then why YOU brought it up in the first place
> 
> and just to show you that playing a numbers game is not in your favor
> here is a sample from the same period last year
> wednesday march 4 2020
> viewers 906,000
> Demo 0.35
> 
> now the current episode rating
> wednesday february 24 2021
> viewers 831,000
> Demo 0.35


Ha - you cherry picked episode. Closest corresponding show was 26-2-20 which did 865,000 & 0.3.


----------



## VIP86

Pippen94 said:


> Ha - you cherry picked episode. Closest corresponding show was 26-2-20 which did 865,000 & 0.3.


nope, i didn't cherry picked anything
since last week's dynamite was largely Unopposed by other sports events
i picked the closest Unopposed episode from last year
you on the other hand want to pick an episode that was up against sports and news

nice try but you fail again


----------



## Pippen94

VIP86 said:


> nope, i didn't cherry picked anything
> since last week's dynamite was largely Unopposed by other sports events
> i picked the closest Unopposed episode from last year
> you on the other hand want to pick an episode that was up against sports and news
> 
> nice try but you fail again


There were two NBA games on last week!!!!

Last year 0.30. This year 0.35.


----------



## VIP86

Pippen94 said:


> There were two NBA games on last week!!!!
> 
> Last year 0.30. This year 0.35.


and the episode i picked also had NBA games against it
so the point stands

the third attempt fails, you're on a roll


----------



## Pippen94

VIP86 said:


> and the episode i picked also had NBA games against it
> so the point stands
> 
> the third attempt fails, you're on a roll


Lol - both 2/26 & 3/4 went against nba like every episode during NBA season!!


----------



## VIP86

Pippen94 said:


> Lol - both 2/26 & 3/4 went against nba like every episode during NBA season!!


and yet you want to choose the episode that tickles your fancy instead of the one with the better rating
is that where we're at now ?
comparing the bad ratings so we can feel better about the worst ones
how about the overall viewership, it doesn't fit the narrative ?
and by the way, saying the 1.4 million was in 2019 so we're not going to take it into account, is bullshit
whether you like it or not, that's 600,000 down in viewership


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

VIP86 said:


> and yet you want to choose the episode that tickles your fancy instead of the one with the better rating
> is that where we're at now ?
> comparing the bad ratings so we can feel better about the worst ones
> how about the overall viewership, it doesn't fit the narrative ?
> and by the way, saying the 1.4 million was in 2019 so we're not going to take it into account, is bullshit
> whether you like it or not, that's 600,000 down in viewership


its been revealed of you take the 7 day dvr figures into account the full Dynamite viewership is 1.3m like 2 months ago

give or take 100k at any given time i would suspect (you can find the conversations in this thread if you care to look)


----------



## Pippen94

VIP86 said:


> and yet you want to choose the episode that tickles your fancy instead of the one with the better rating
> is that where we're at now ?
> comparing the bad ratings so we can feel better about the worst ones
> how about the overall viewership, it doesn't fit the narrative ?
> and by the way, saying the 1.4 million was in 2019 so we're not going to take it into account, is bullshit
> whether you like it or not, that's 600,000 down in viewership


I picked average for for entire 2020 because you said ratings for non women's segments dropped rather than women gained which is false.

Now were going around in circles rather than you conceding the fact you got it wrong.

You keep mentioning 1.4 million like it's relevant but it's not.

You been taking lessons from @RapShepard ?!


----------



## Not Lying

VIP86 said:


> and yet you want to choose the episode that tickles your fancy instead of the one with the better rating
> is that where we're at now ?
> comparing the bad ratings so we can feel better about the worst ones
> how about the overall viewership, it doesn't fit the narrative ?
> and by the way, saying the 1.4 million was in 2019 so we're not going to take it into account, is bullshit
> whether you like it or not, that's 600,000 down in viewership


Anyone who still talks about the debut show has no idea what they're talking about and is just grasping at straws  It's an outlier value.


----------



## RapShepard

Pippen94 said:


> I picked average for for entire 2020 because you said ratings for non women's segments dropped rather than women gained which is false.
> 
> Now were going around in circles rather than you conceding the fact you got it wrong.
> 
> You keep mentioning 1.4 million like it's relevant but it's not.
> 
> You been taking lessons from @RapShepard ?!


The women's division is trash Pippen, it's okay to admit it's trash. Just hope it gets better one day.


----------



## VIP86

LifeInCattleClass said:


> its been revealed of you take the 7 day dvr figures into account the full Dynamite viewership is 1.3m like 2 months ago
> 
> give or take 100k at any given time i would suspect (you can find the conversations in this thread if you care to look)


ofcourse the numbers would be higher with the dvr
but even with the dvr it still not comparable with 1.4 million plus the dvr
so the loss is still more than half a million
the difference is, you guys are just happy with the number as it is
but i want them to get their shit together so they can crush Vince McMahon and his shitty product in the ratings
but how can you achieve this if you're doing the same stupid shit


----------



## VIP86

The Definition of Technician said:


> Anyone who still talks about the debut show has no idea what they're talking about and is just grasping at straws  It's an outlier value.


if you want to see someone who doesn't know what he's talking about
look no further than wednesday night
i want to see wrestling, and they're giving me fake weddings and midgets


----------



## VIP86

Pippen94 said:


> I picked average for for entire 2020 because you said ratings for non women's segments dropped rather than women gained which is false.
> 
> Now were going around in circles rather than you conceding the fact you got it wrong.
> 
> You keep mentioning 1.4 million like it's relevant but it's not.
> 
> You been taking lessons from @RapShepard ?!


you do realise you're the one who started arguing with me about the demo, right ?
so don't blame me for pointing out your weak arguments


----------



## The Wood

Just your regular reminder: Demo is an archaic metric. It no longer reflects who has the most disposable income, nor is cable the best means to reach them. Viewership can also be broken down into more relevant demos in 2021. These can tell you more about spending habits, influence and culture.

Advertisers don’t give a shit about 300k 48 year old white male wrestling fans.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

VIP86 said:


> ofcourse the numbers would be higher with the dvr
> but even with the dvr it still not comparable with 1.4 million plus the dvr
> so the loss is still more than half a million
> the difference is, you guys are just happy with the number as it is
> but i want them to get their shit together so they can crush Vince McMahon and his shitty product in the ratings
> but how can you achieve this if you're doing the same stupid shit


i don't really care either way

i just told you what I read

first show_ I would guess_ the 7 day DVR was much lower as most would've checked out episode 1 live

but natural that people would start watching on a 7 day dvr cycle

PS> they are never going to crush VK in the ratings
PPS> whatever you think is the best thing for them to do in order to crush VK in the ratings is most likely wrong


----------



## Prosper

VIP86 said:


> if you want to see someone who doesn't know what he's talking about
> look no further than wednesday night
> i want to see wrestling, and they're giving me fake weddings and midgets


Stop bitching and moaning you’ve said this like 23 times already in this thread alone pretending as if you haven’t seen this shit in wrestlIng before. You praised the Attitude Era but cry in the present. If it’s so bad for you then delete your account and detach yourself from All Elite it’s that simple.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

All you can do is compare it to the week a year before. This week will be tough, its the week coming off of Mox's title win.


----------



## Dr. Middy

RapShepard said:


> But the thing is the improvement isn't where it really matters. More solid matches is a solid progression sure. Without stories and focus what does it really matter though. If somebody just watched Dynamite, by the end of the year they'll have seen about 250 AEW matches since most shows have at least 5 matches a show.
> 
> 250 matches is a lot of matches, unless you have a photogenic memory you're not going to remember all those matches. So what gets forgotten first are the solid matches that were attached to no story. That's because you have less things attached to it.
> 
> They were on the right path when Shida was feuding with Abadon and Britt with Rosa, I gave that props. They had a logical next step of doing Britt vs Shida, instead pointless tournament.


Sorry to respond 3 days later, totally forgot about my half-written response I had started!

Anyway, I still see it as a pretty decent progression considering the lack of quality many of their early women's matches had. They've been way more consistent within the last couple months, and that is something they can build off of.

But I do agree that the lack of story is a problem, especially with Shida since we have little reason to care outside of the fact that she's champion. I was surprised too Britt lost as early as she did, and now that we're probably going to get Nyla/Shida. If Nyla wins and you want to do the dominant monster heel and all that's cool, but they need to properly build up a babyface to beat her, and give us backstory or something to latch onto for said babyface, whoever that ends up being. 

Britt should be in another feud as well, it would be nice to continue the thing with Thunder Rosa perhaps. Britt is strong enough with her character to have a compelling feud outside of the title picture, even though she probably should be champion.

I just hope they try some things to at least keep the momentum going they gotten somewhat off this tournament. It would really blow if they went back to the champ not being around as much again.


----------



## Klitschko

I also think the women's division still sucks, but thats just my own opinion. They really have improved a little bit with the talent. A year ago everyone sucked, but now they have some little gems like Thunder Rosa, Baker, Conti, Anna Jay, Serena. They are a little better compared to this time last year, and they also have not been losing as many viewers as before. They have apparently been gaining viewers the last few weeks so thats good for them. 

I just think Kenny is a shit booker for the women and is actually holding them all back.


----------



## Shock Street

Klitschko said:


> I also think the women's division still sucks, but thats just my own opinion. They really have improved a little bit with the talent. A year ago everyone sucked, but now they have some little gems like Thunder Rosa, Baker, Conti, Anna Jay, Serena. They are a little better compared to this time last year, and they also have not been losing as many viewers as before. They have apparently been gaining viewers the last few weeks so thats good for them.
> 
> I just think Kenny is a shit booker for the women and is actually holding them all back.


I mean it's barely even booking. Britt gets stories and nobody else does, and yet she doesn't get to be a title contender. It's bizarre IMO. I like Kenny as a wrestler, but as a booker, no sir.

That said, the individual women wrestlers have improved drastically in the ring in the last year. I was just thinking the other day that Anna Jay had improved a lot, especially on the mic, so it was disappointing to see she has an injury. I'm hoping they let her manage Tay so she gets more time to keep improving her promos, despite being hurt.

Also I wish someone would tell Rebel to cut it out with the annoying laugh. Don't mind her with Britt, but she cheeses that fucking laugh more and more every week, it's so obnoxious.


----------



## Klitschko

Yea I think Kenny has put more thought into his heel entrance then he has for his 2 whole years of booking the women's division.


----------



## The Wood

Prosper said:


> Stop bitching and moaning you’ve said this like 23 times already in this thread alone pretending as if you haven’t seen this shit in wrestlIng before. You praised the Attitude Era but cry in the present. If it’s so bad for you then delete your account and detach yourself from All Elite it’s that simple.


Holy shit, stop gate-keeping. 



TKO Wrestling said:


> All you can do is compare it to the week a year before. This week will be tough, its the week coming off of Mox's title win.


I don’t get why people do this. Television changes year-to-year. In many ways, a year is arbitrary. What you really want to measure is growth or decline and how it compares to shows in a contemporary setting.


----------



## VIP86

Prosper said:


> Stop bitching and moaning you’ve said this like 23 times already in this thread alone pretending as if you haven’t seen this shit in wrestlIng before. You praised the Attitude Era but cry in the present. If it’s so bad for you then delete your account and detach yourself from All Elite it’s that simple.


your response is a proof you know nothing about me
when did you see me praise the Attitude Era ? show me the post if you can find it
or else you can just accept the fact that not everyone is a blind fanboy


----------



## Prosper

VIP86 said:


> your response is a proof you know nothing about me
> when did you see me praise the Attitude Era ? show me the post if you can find it
> or else you can just accept the fact that not everyone is a blind fanboy


Yeah but I do know overly emotional wrestling fans. Almost all wrestling fans praise the Attitude Era wishing they could go back. If you're not comparing the AEW product or any wrestling product to the best time in wrestling history, then WTF are you comparing it to when you say this or that product sucks or is bad in comparison? Current WWE? I would hope you're not that silly. 

Not everyone is a blind fanboy but at the same time not everyone who dislikes what they are watching is bitching as much as you are right now. Give it a rest and move on with your life if AEW hurts your feelings so bad. Spamming the same post 50 times is not helping you get your point across to anyone. No one cares if you enjoy or not sorry to break it to you. Take it to rants.


----------



## VIP86

Prosper said:


> Yeah but I do know overly emotional wrestling fans. Almost all wrestling fans praise the Attitude Era wishing they could go back. If you're not comparing the AEW product or any wrestling product to the best time in wrestling history, then WTF are you comparing it to when you say this or that product sucks or is bad in comparison? Current WWE? I would hope you're not that silly.
> 
> Not everyone is a blind fanboy but at the same time not everyone who dislikes what they are watching is bitching as much as you are right now. Give it a rest and move on with your life if AEW hurts your feelings so bad. Spamming the same post 50 times is not helping you get your point across to anyone. No one cares if you enjoy or not sorry to break it to you. Take it to rants.


so you don't have a proof that i praised the Attitude Era, but you still insist that i must have said it before
you know what is this called ? it's called lying
although i'm not surprised that you would lie just to try to find an argument to silence people

and just for the record, the Attitude Era had a few good thing
but it was mainly the start of the dumb shit we're suffering from now
like for example, fake weddings on a wrestling show
and guess who just did a fake wedding on a wrestling show ?
the same people who promised a sports based alternative to WWE

finally, this is a forum
forums are made so people can voice their opinions
so the sooner you accept this fact the better
because i'm not going to stop just because it upsets you or anyone else


----------



## Prosper

VIP86 said:


> so you don't have a proof that i praised the Attitude Era, but you still insist that i must have said it before
> you know what is this called ? it's called lying
> although i'm not surprised that you would lie just to try to find an argument to silence people
> 
> and just for the record, the Attitude Era had a few good thing
> but it was mainly the start of the dumb shit we're suffering from now
> like for example, fake weddings on a wrestling show
> and guess who just did a fake wedding on a wrestling show ?
> the same people who promised a sports based alternative to WWE
> 
> finally, this is a forum
> forums are made so people can voice their opinions
> so the sooner you accept this fact the better
> because i'm not going to stop just because it upsets you or anyone else


I can't silence you all I can do is tell you what you need to hear. Tony didn't promise you anything and he owes you nothing, AEW is free to its viewers. You're not paying anything so take it or leave it. If you believe he broke his special promise to you then boo hoo my guy get over it, you two are not lovers and its been 14 months now. You know what to expect at this point. Yes forums are made to voice opinions. My point is that you voiced them at first, then copy and pasted the same thing 100 times.


----------



## VIP86

Prosper said:


> I can't silence you all I can do is tell you what you need to hear. Tony didn't promise you anything and he owes you nothing, AEW is free to its viewers. You're not paying anything so take it or leave it. If you believe he broke his special promise to you then boo hoo my guy get over it, you two are not lovers and its been 14 months now. You know what to expect at this point. Yes forums are made to voice opinions. My point is that you voiced them at first, then copy and pasted the same thing 100 times.


are you serious right now
a "sports based presentations"
that was the promise they kept bragging about over and over and over
so don't tell me they didn't promise anything, because that would be another lie

i can repeat it as much as i like to, it's called freedom
you can get on top of a muntin and scream your blind love for their stupidity, and i won't tell you why you're doing it

and just because something is free, doesn't mean it's above criticism


----------



## fabi1982

VIP86 said:


> finally, this is a forum
> forums are made so people can voice their opinions
> so the sooner you accept this fact the better
> because i'm not going to stop just because it upsets you or anyone else


Sadly thats not the case for the AEW section. You either fanboy the shit out of everything, or you are a boomer, WWE shill, or you just get perma banned for no reason.


----------



## RapShepard

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> Sorry to respond 3 days later, totally forgot about my half-written response I had started!
> 
> Anyway, I still see it as a pretty decent progression considering the lack of quality many of their early women's matches had. They've been way more consistent within the last couple months, and that is something they can build off of.
> 
> But I do agree that the lack of story is a problem, especially with Shida since we have little reason to care outside of the fact that she's champion. I was surprised too Britt lost as early as she did, and now that we're probably going to get Nyla/Shida. If Nyla wins and you want to do the dominant monster heel and all that's cool, but they need to properly build up a babyface to beat her, and give us backstory or something to latch onto for said babyface, whoever that ends up being.
> 
> Britt should be in another feud as well, it would be nice to continue the thing with Thunder Rosa perhaps. Britt is strong enough with her character to have a compelling feud outside of the title picture, even though she probably should be champion.
> 
> I just hope they try some things to at least keep the momentum going they gotten somewhat off this tournament. It would really blow if they went back to the champ not being around as much again.


I think of progression in this case similar to sports. The leeway you give to a rookie, isn't the same you give to a 2nd year player. So I'm just looking for that next step, because that's really all they need is the focus to build characters and stories. That's what takes them from, solid matches to long lasting memories.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> Holy shit, stop gate-keeping.


Nah, he was being honest with that poster tbh.


----------



## DammitChrist

fabi1982 said:


> Sadly thats not the case for the AEW section. You either fanboy the shit out of everything, or you are a boomer, WWE shill, *or you just get perma banned for no reason.*


Nah, there’s plenty of good reasons why that happened. 

There’s no need for critics to be thin-skinned over those positive events taking place recently, and for them to blindly take their frustrations out on the genuine fans for no good reason at all.


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, he was being honest with that poster tbh.


no he wasn't
he was just triggered because he saw a negative post about AEW
it's as simple as that really


DammitChrist said:


> Nah, there’s plenty of good reasons why that happened.
> 
> There’s no need for critics to be thin-skinned over those positive events taking place recently, and for them to blindly take their frustrations out on the genuine fans for no good reason at all.


please tell me you're not serious
thin-skinned ?
you know who's thin-skinned ?, the people who can't handle criticism
if you go into a meltdown because someone is pointing out the stupidity in a certain product
then you certainly have a problem, not the ones who made those criticisms

you want to see blind frustration ?
look at the people who are desperately trying to defend against every single criticism
lying and and putting words in people's mouths in the process

the funny part is
there is an ignore feature in the forum
but this is not about ignoring the people who you don't agree with
this is about wanting to silence them in the first place


----------



## DammitChrist

VIP86 said:


> no he wasn't
> he was just triggered because he saw a negative post about AEW
> it's as simple as that really


Nah, he was being completely honest in that post tbh. He simply just wanted to make sure that you weren’t crying so much since you seemed really emotional over the success of the product. 

Honestly, I think he was being really helpful 



> please tell me you're not serious
> thin-skinned ?
> you know who's thin-skinned ?, the people who can't handle criticism
> if you go into a meltdown because someone is pointing out the stupidity in a certain product
> then you certainly have a problem, not the ones who made those criticisms
> 
> you want to see blind frustration ?
> look at the people who are desperately trying to defend against every single criticism
> lying and and putting words in people's mouths in the process
> 
> the funny part is
> there is an ignore feature in the forum
> but this is not about ignoring the people who you don't agree with
> this is about wanting to silence them in the first place


Yikes, you recently returned here just to have this poor gimmick where you make emotional rants about anything wrestling-related?

Gee, I can see why the negative cult are getting their feelings hurt whenever someone calls them out their whiny behavior here :lol


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, he was being completely honest in that post tbh. He simply just wanted to make sure that you weren’t crying so much since you seemed really emotional over the success of the product.
> 
> Honestly, I think he was being really helpful


nope, he wasn't no matter how much you try to make it look like he was
he could have easily pressed the ignore button
but he chose to lie instead
he literally lied when he said i praised the attitude era several times here
and he couldn't prove it


DammitChrist said:


> Yikes, you recently returned here just to have this poor gimmick where you make emotional rants about anything wrestling-related?
> 
> Gee, I can see why the negative cult are getting their feelings hurt whenever someone calls them out their whiny behavior here :lol


not a poor gimmick, but the reality that people like you refuse to see
and my feelings are not hurt, this is clearly just projection on your part now
i'm not the one who's upset because someone else is criticising a product

and you keep ignoring the important thing here because you know you don't have an answer
which is the ignore feature, that you conveniently ignore
why don't you want to use it ? instead of moaning about what i'm saying
you know why, i'll tell why again and again and again
it's about silencing not ignoring, and don't even pretend that's not the case


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

’what you watch suck! Its horrible! I can do it better!’

’dude, stop posting that 40 times, we get it’

’wHy sO tHiN sKiNneD Bro?! Can’T HanDle cRitz?’


that is what its like visiting this shithole sometimes


----------



## Prosper

VIP86 said:


> are you serious right now
> a "sports based presentations"
> that was the promise they kept bragging about over and over and over
> so don't tell me they didn't promise anything, because that would be another lie
> 
> i can repeat it as much as i like to, it's called freedom
> you can get on top of a muntin and scream your blind love for their stupidity, and i won't tell you why you're doing it
> 
> and just because something is free, doesn't mean it's above criticism


I’m being very serious VIP. Tony said sports based on a random radio show once he never shouted it from the rooftops every week leading up to their debut like you convinced yourself he did. Things change and things you say at first almost never pan out like you want in any line of business. The NFL has changed drastically from when they first started especially with how QB’s are hit and you don’t see those fans whining 24/7. And I criticize AEW plenty as well as other fans of the product. @Two Sheds and @RapShepard criticize the product a lot and I have no problem with them. I have no reason to ignore you because you’re not a troll but right now you’re being whiny AF so I had to call you out.



fabi1982 said:


> Sadly thats not the case for the AEW section. You either fanboy the shit out of everything, or you are a boomer, WWE shill, or you just get perma banned for no reason.


Or you can be like any AEW fan in this section who recognizes the positive and the negative? The only ones who have been perma-banned are troll bitches.


----------



## La Parka

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ’what you watch suck! Its horrible! I can do it better!’
> 
> ’dude, stop posting that 40 times, we get it’
> 
> ’wHy sO tHiN sKiNneD Bro?! Can’T HanDle cRitz?’
> 
> 
> that is what its like visiting this shithole sometimes


Thanks for poppin in.

back to r/squaredcircle ya go

Im sure r/scjerk could use some more content


----------



## VIP86

Prosper said:


> I’m being very serious VIP. Tony said sports based on a random radio show once he never shouted it from the rooftops every week leading up to their debut like you convinced yourself he did. Things change and things you say at first almost never pan out like you want in any line of business. The NFL has changed drastically from when they first started especially with how QB’s are hit and you don’t see those fans whining 24/7. And I criticize AEW plenty as well as other fans of the product. @Two Sheds and @RapShepard criticize the product a lot and I have no problem with them.


if you gave me this response the first time, we wouldn't have a problem at all
instead of telling me to stop watching or they don't owe me anything or that i praised the attitude era several times


----------



## VIP86

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ’what you watch suck! Its horrible! I can do it better!’
> 
> ’dude, stop posting that 40 times, we get it’
> 
> ’wHy sO tHiN sKiNneD Bro?! Can’T HanDle cRitz?’
> 
> 
> that is what its like visiting this shithole sometimes


1- press the ignore button
2- problem solved


----------



## Klitschko

I mean one could say that you can use the ignore feature with AEW by not going in the section @VIP86 if the company pisses you off that much.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

VIP86 said:


> 1- press the ignore button
> 2- problem solved


you know what? You’re right


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Klitschko said:


> I mean one could say that you can use the ignore feature with AEW by not going in the section @VIP86 if the company passes you off that much.


lol, facts


----------



## VIP86

Klitschko said:


> I mean one could say that you can use the ignore feature with AEW by not going in the section @VIP86 if the company passes you off that much.


no because unlike WWE (which i stopped watching because of the same stupidity)
AEW still has a lot of things that i enjoy
and is easily fixable (less stupid stuff, more serious stuff)

plus, don't you think it would be easier to ignore the person who you don't like his opinion
before trying to get them to stop watching ?
but again it's not about ignoring, and everybody knows this
so at least let's respect people intelligence by not pretending that the ignore button doesn't exist


----------



## The Wood

Prosper said:


> Yeah but I do know overly emotional wrestling fans. Almost all wrestling fans praise the Attitude Era wishing they could go back. If you're not comparing the AEW product or any wrestling product to the best time in wrestling history, then WTF are you comparing it to when you say this or that product sucks or is bad in comparison? Current WWE? I would hope you're not that silly.
> 
> Not everyone is a blind fanboy but at the same time not everyone who dislikes what they are watching is bitching as much as you are right now. Give it a rest and move on with your life if AEW hurts your feelings so bad. Spamming the same post 50 times is not helping you get your point across to anyone. No one cares if you enjoy or not sorry to break it to you. Take it to rants.


Whoa, not a good looks



DammitChrist said:


> Nah, he was being honest with that poster tbh.


“Honest” is a funny word to use, since he got caught in a pretty big fucking lie.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> ’what you watch suck! Its horrible! I can do it better!’
> 
> ’dude, stop posting that 40 times, we get it’
> 
> ’wHy sO tHiN sKiNneD Bro?! Can’T HanDle cRitz?’
> 
> 
> that is what its like visiting this shithole sometimes


You’re welcome to leave.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> You’re welcome to leave.


See, now you're gate-keeping here


----------



## Brad Boyd

@Prosper you can't delete your account lol


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> See, now you're gate-keeping here


No I’m not. The dude called it a shit hole. I don’t care whether he goes or stays.


----------



## Brad Boyd

Prosper said:


> I can't silence you all I can do is tell you what you need to hear. Tony didn't promise you anything and he owes you nothing, AEW is free to its viewers. You're not paying anything so take it or leave it. If you believe he broke his special promise to you then boo hoo my guy get over it, you two are not lovers and its been 14 months now. You know what to expect at this point. Yes forums are made to voice opinions. My point is that you voiced them at first, then copy and pasted the same thing 100 times.


Aews free now... seriously? Can I watch dynamite on their website?


----------



## Shock Street

Brad Boyd said:


> Aews free now... seriously? Can I watch dynamite on their website?


Well, not on their website, but I know a few 

For real though, it is not free. Not for the people that AEW, TNT, and Nielsen are counting anyway.


----------



## Prosper

Brad Boyd said:


> Aews free now... seriously? Can I watch dynamite on their website?


Lol don't pretend that you pay for an entire $100 cable package just for AEW or just for TNT, or that you even watch on cable most weeks.


----------



## Brad Boyd

Prosper said:


> Lol don't pretend that you pay for an entire $100 cable package just for AEW or just for TNT, or that you even watch on cable most weeks.


Oh ok was just saying I thought AEW had a temporary free deal going. Funny enough dynamite was available for free for a little while on my cable provider but that eventually stopped. It might only be $10-15 a month for a subscription but honestly even recording a show and having to fast forward commercials takes up too much time. I prefer to watch commercial free.


----------



## Pippen94

Big social media numbers today








United States • Now • Twitter Trending Hashtags and Topics


HOT RIGHT NOW: Ian Book, #WWERAW, Dolphins, Saints, #FinsUp... Explore all top Twitter trends and popular hashtags today United States




getdaytrends.com





Could show reach over a mill....?!


----------



## yeahright2

Pippen94 said:


> Big social media numbers today
> http://[URL]https://getdaytrends.com/united-states/[/URL]
> 
> Could show reach over a mill....?!


what do you say @Garty is All Elite 
You wanna change your prediction?


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Big social media numbers today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United States • Now • Twitter Trending Hashtags and Topics
> 
> 
> HOT RIGHT NOW: Ian Book, #WWERAW, Dolphins, Saints, #FinsUp... Explore all top Twitter trends and popular hashtags today United States
> 
> 
> 
> 
> getdaytrends.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could show reach over a mill....?!


They have a good chance with Shaq. Would have been even more likely if Shaq had bothered tweet about it even once.


----------



## Erik.

800k, I reckon.

Though I do think it'll get 950k+ next week.


----------



## Prosper

I'm gonna go with 905K.


----------



## 3venflow

I'm pretty confident it STARTED with 1m+, but the show always loses viewers so it's a question of how many. I thought it was pretty smart to do the 'Shaq stretchered out' thing and then show the ambulance, to try and keep new viewers hooked after Q1. Then, like I said should happen before the show, they sent out two of the most exciting pro wrestlers in the biz, PAC and Fenix, giving them a squash win that showed off their excellent athletic ability. So there was definitely some thought into keeping the momentum and they did a good job of that until the last two matches.

I'd be disappointed if it did under 900k overall, but predicting the ratings of late has become a bit of a lottery.


----------



## Garty

yeahright2 said:


> what do you say @Garty is All Elite
> You wanna change your prediction?


Nope. Not for one second. 1.1million total viewers, 2nd place overall for the night, .40 in demo

And if I'm wrong, then my career of predicting ratings numbers, is done. I can only take so much bad news.


----------



## yeahright2

Garty is All Elite said:


> Nope. Not for one second. 1.1million total viewers, 2nd place overall for the night, .40 in demo
> 
> And if I'm wrong, then my career of predicting ratings numbers, is done. I can only take so much bad news.


We should make a ratings prediction game.. The one who gets closest gets bragging rights for a week or something.
I´m gonna go with 925.. I have no idea about place or demo.


----------



## La Parka

850k


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

950k / 0.37


----------



## yeahright2

Keep them coming


----------



## TD Stinger

950k has been my guess all week so I'll stick with that.


----------



## The Wood

881k.


----------



## rbl85

Hey it's too easy if you only give the viewership, you have to give the demo and the ranking.


----------



## Pippen94

Over a million - demo 0.46.
Somebody's gotta show confidence


----------



## Pentagon Senior

I'll predict 910k 0.37 demo

I suspect Q1 was high then a gradual drop off as the casuals tuned out


----------



## yeahright2

Pippen94 said:


> Over a million - demo 0.46.
> Somebody's gotta show confidence


Just over? that´s a bit wide, isn´t it? It could mean anything from a million and one to a million and 999


----------



## Dr. Middy

Over 1 million to start, settling back to like 850k or so, so I'd say 950k with a 0.40 demo


----------



## MoxAsylum

I'm predicting 1 million


----------



## RapShepard

989k .42 demo


----------



## Klitschko

I'm going with 980k.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW: 934,000 (0.33, #6 on cable)

NXT: 692,000 (0.20, #19 on cable)

AEW's best total viewership since the Brodie Lee memorial show. Key demo actually down from last week a little though. They beat NXT in the 50+ which may be a first? 0.38 over 0.32 - that'll be the Shaq effect.


----------



## RainmakerV2

My penis is safe.


----------



## Prosper

Nice that's a great overall number and demo. Shaq certainly brought in some viewers. I'm sure they lost some after Shaq was done but to average 934K means they retained their cable audience well enough all night. It was a great show, I just wish the ending was better.

Without NXT to oppose, they definitely would have gotten over a million for last night with an even higher demo.

Side note: People really love their reality TV stuff don't they? Real Housewives and the MTV show is always at the top every week. Not gonna lie though, I was a huge fan of Jersey Shore lol.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Not even Shaq can bring in a million... I wonder what the excuse will be this time..


----------



## omaroo

Prosper said:


> Nice that's a great overall number and demo. Shaq certainly brought in some viewers. I'm sure they lost some after Shaq was done but to average 934K means they retained their audience well enough all night. It was a great show, I just wish the ending was better.
> 
> Without NXT to oppose, they definitely would have gotten over a million for last night.


Do agree ending was awful. I personally am not digging the casino tag team royale match. No build and no story behind it. Just randolm.

If NXT does move for good on Tuesday be interesting if they hit a million regularly or not.


----------



## fabi1982

NathanMayberry said:


> Not even Shaq can bring in a million... I wonder what the excuse will be this time..


It will be NXT competition, up until NXT goes to Tuesday and then they will say „see AEW gets a million without competition“


----------



## LifeInCattleClass




----------



## zaz102

fabi1982 said:


> It will be NXT competition, up until NXT goes to Tuesday and then they will say „see AEW gets a million without competition“


Why do you care if they get a Million or not?


----------



## fabi1982

And interesting that the special directly afterwards only gets 350k with a .12 demo, shows how big the show started and how low it have ended.


----------



## rbl85

Women apparently didn't like or weren't interested about the show.

Because their demos are actually down from last week.


----------



## Garty

Okay well, that didn't last long. I'll leave the guessing to the professionals from now on.

Still a great number, but under what I expected. Quarter hour breakdowns will tell the whole story though this week.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 950k / 0.37


am i closest this week?


----------



## Pippen94

Well, next week after Punk or Cena or Batista or Rock debut....


----------



## rbl85

It's going to be hard to find something attracting the women


----------



## Pippen94

fabi1982 said:


> And interesting that the special directly afterwards only gets 350k with a .12 demo, shows how big the show started and how low it have ended.


Wait till breakdown


----------



## rbl85

What you guys think would make women interested in watching AEW or wrestling in general ?


----------



## ProjectGargano

fabi1982 said:


> And interesting that the special directly afterwards only gets 350k with a .12 demo, shows how big the show started and how low it have ended.


No, it was only because when Dynamite ended, the people changed the channel, which is perfectly normal.


----------



## Pippen94

rbl85 said:


> It's going to be hard to find something attracting the women


You know Sammy has been missing


----------



## fabi1982

Pippen94 said:


> Wait till breakdown


Give me another reason why from 934k only 350k stayed to get hyped for the PPV?


----------



## DaSlacker

NathanMayberry said:


> Not even Shaq can bring in a million... I wonder what the excuse will be this time..


No excuses. These cable ratings are a third to quarter of what they were 15 years ago. The NBA games, MTV and Bravo shows would be drawing over 3.5 million viewers back in 2006. The wrestling audience has followed a similar trajectory and WWE NXT splits the audience. It's the cord cutting and the niche effect.


----------



## fabi1982

ProjectGargano said:


> No, it was only because when Dynamite ended, the people changed the channel, which is perfectly normal.


AEW plugged the „road to“ hard during the show, so...


----------



## Pippen94

fabi1982 said:


> Give me another reason why from 934k only 350k stayed to get hyped for the PPV?


Because ppl go to bed at that time


----------



## zaz102

Pippen94 said:


> Because ppl go to bed at that time


Who gives a shit about the Road to Revolution show ratings?


----------



## fabi1982

Pippen94 said:


> Because ppl go to bed at that time


Ok at least its a reason, even when its a lame one, stating that people under 50 go to bed at 10pm?! But ok, I let that count.


----------



## Prosper

fabi1982 said:


> Give me another reason why from 934k only 350k stayed to get hyped for the PPV?


350K is great for a Countdown show. Why does this even matter? You can't expect everyone watching to sit there for 3 hours straight that's why the 3rd hour drop-off for RAW is always so bad.


----------



## rbl85

Prosper said:


> 350K is great for a Countdown show. Why does this even matter? You can't expect everyone watching to sit there for 3 hours straight that's why the 3rd hour drop-off for RAW is always so bad.


Also i believe the footages that are shown during the countdown will also be shown (most of it) sunday


----------



## Mr316

That’s not a very good number honestly.


----------



## rbl85

Mr316 said:


> That’s not a very good number honestly.


For AEW it is.

Now AEW should really start to think about what they need to do to make the women watch the show because i think that the women viewers are really going to make the difference between less than 1M and more than a million


----------



## A PG Attitude

fabi1982 said:


> Ok at least its a reason, even when its a lame one, stating that people under 50 go to bed at 10pm?! But ok, I let that count.


I'm 35 its 9.30pm and I'm in bed. Most people I know my age are in bed between 9 and 10 on a weeknight.


----------



## Pippen94

Mr316 said:


> That’s not a very good number honestly.


Hahaha


----------



## Pippen94

A PG Attitude said:


> I'm 35 its 9.30pm and I'm in bed. Most people I know my age are in bed between 9 and 10 on a weeknight.


Ppl got to work. Plus who watches shitty countdown shows?!


----------



## Garty

LifeInCattleClass said:


> am i closest this week?


I guess you could argue that, but like it is on The Price Is Right, you're "bid" is over the "actual retail-price".

Why can't I get my pictures to show and not just a stupid link?! 

https://images.complex.com/complex/image/upload/t_article_image/najexiign8azlhp4bslw.jpg


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> What you guys think would make women interested in watching AEW or wrestling in general ?



More guys like Wardlow and Ricky Starks and less Young Bucks.


----------



## TD Stinger

I predicted 950k so I wasn't too far off. Interesting that the key Demo wasn't any higher from last week, though they did beat NXT in 50+, lol. Although, nice to see NXT keep rising in the Demo at least.

Depending on how big this surprise is at Revolution and whatever else happens at the PPV, maybe that one will get close to a million.


----------



## 3venflow

Hour one probably did a million or so regularly, but when you put the Dark Order in your last two segments, ratings are going to slide you'd think.



rbl85 said:


> What you guys think would make women interested in watching AEW or wrestling in general ?


Wardlow, Sammy Guevara and Ricky Starks are all good looking guys who should appeal to women. Also Hangman and his southern charms.


----------



## Pippen94

3venflow said:


> Hour one probably did a million or so regularly, but when you put the Dark Order in your last two segments, ratings are going to slide you'd think.
> 
> 
> 
> Wardlow, Sammy Guevara and Ricky Starks are all good looking guys who should appeal to women. Also Hangman and his southern charms.


Wait till breakdown. 
If Adam Page is future face of company makes sense to put on this show.


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Wait till breakdown.
> If Adam Page is future face of company makes sense to put on this show.


Page absolutely should be on the show, just not with the putty patrol.


----------



## 3venflow

FWIW, this week's show did a better viewership than last year's equivalent (906k) which was the Revolution fall-out with:


A live crowd
Moxley's first promo as champion opposite Jericho
Hager's first TV match
Jake the Snake's debut confronting Cody and promising a client will arrive (Archer)
Formation of Death Triangle
Jericho/Sammy vs. Mox/Darby main event (Jericho would have had to leave for 60 days if they lost)


----------



## tower_

Kind of interested in the breakdown. Surprised Shaq + The Giant couldnt get close to Sting's debut but possible they bled a lot the last hour


----------



## tower_

Will note that I personally missed the first hour due to sports so maybe just increased competition on the night? Still seems rough that they just cant get to 1mil no matter what they do


----------



## One Shed

tower_ said:


> Kind of interested in the breakdown. Surprised Shaq + The Giant couldnt get close to Sting's debut but possible they bled a lot the last hour


Yeah you have to imagine that first quarter number will be big. Then the Dark Order chased people away.


----------



## yeahright2

I´m compiling a list.. stay tuned


----------



## yeahright2

*AEW DYNAMITE 3/3/21 Ratings Prediction game
AEW: 934,000 (0.33, #6 on cable)

Yeahright2 925K*
Garty is All Elite 1.1million
La Parka 850k
LifeInCattleClass 950k / 0.37
TD Stinger 950k
The Wood 881k
Pippen94 Over a million - demo 0.46.
Pentagon Senior 910k 0.37 demo
The Doctor Middy Experience 950k
MoxAsylum 1 million
RapShepard 989k .42 demo
Klitschko 980k.

As far as I can see..* I WIN !!*
Eat Crow @Garty is All Elite  I told you we were coming for you! LOL
(if there´s anyone who predicted and want to be on the list, either pm or reply here, and I´ll update)

Edit; Thanks for playing everyone.. Let´s do it again next week? But I´ll wait with the prediction until after the PPV


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> What you guys think would make women interested in watching AEW or wrestling in general ?


Treating the women as serious parts of the show, increasing the drama (big reason why reality shows are hits with women, occasional love angles, and having talent they can drool over.


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> Treating the women as serious parts of the show, increasing the drama (big reason why reality shows are hits with women, occasional love angles, and having talent they can drool over.


Yea but you don't want to chase the other viewers


----------



## One Shed

RapShepard said:


> Treating the women as serious parts of the show, increasing the drama (big reason why reality shows are hits with women, occasional love angles, and having talent they can drool over.


I am not sure I totally agree with the first part. I do not think there is evidence that women want to see more women's matches outside of the loud Twitter people. There were a ton more female wrestling fans back in the 80's and 90's than there are today (not just in whole numbers, but as a percentage) and they wanted to see the guys they drooled over. It is definitely not the female fans who are wanting more school girl types.


----------



## yeahright2

RapShepard said:


> Treating the women as serious parts of the show, increasing the drama (big reason why reality shows are hits with women, occasional love angles, and having talent they can drool over.


Just no weddings. But the drama part.. TNA Knockouts did fairly well with the female demo, didn´t they?


----------



## Erik.

Better than I expected.

Good for them!


----------



## tower_

Two Sheds said:


> I am not sure I totally agree with the first part. I do not think there is evidence that women want to see more women's matches outside of the loud Twitter people. There were a ton more female wrestling fans back in the 80's and 90's than there are today (not just in whole numbers, but as a percentage) and they wanted to see the guys they drooled over. It is definitely not the female fans who are wanting more school girl types.


Yeah it's not a coincidence that wrestling has cratered in the ratings ever since WWE started "taking womens wrestling more seriously"

I'd say the old slogan about wrestling being "soap opera for men" was the right idea, except ya know, women still like their soap operas


----------



## Chan Hung

Hour 2 was certainly worse. The placement of the main event should have never been what we saw, considering the go home show before a ppv.


----------



## Garty

yeahright2 said:


> *AEW DYNAMITE 3/3/21 Ratings Prediction game
> AEW: 934,000 (0.33, #6 on cable)
> 
> Yeahright2 925K*
> Garty is All Elite 1.1million
> La Parka 850k
> LifeInCattleClass 950k / 0.37
> TD Stinger 950k
> The Wood 881k
> Pippen94 Over a million - demo 0.46.
> Pentagon Senior 910k 0.37 demo
> The Doctor Middy Experience 950k
> MoxAsylum 1 million
> RapShepard 989k .42 demo
> Klitschko 980k.
> 
> As far as I can see..* I WIN !!*
> Eat Crow @Garty is All Elite  I told you we were coming for you! LOL
> (if there´s anyone who predicted and want to be on the list, either pm or reply here, and I´ll update)
> 
> Edit; Thanks for playing everyone.. Let´s do it again next week? But I´ll wait with the prediction until after the PPV


Can I please use the Woody defense of, what is "the 10% margin of error factor" for $1000 YR2?


----------



## yeahright2

Garty is All Elite said:


> Can I please use the Woody defense of, what is "the 10% margin of error factor" for $1000 YR2?


Nope... But you´re allowed to use the Chewbacca Defense


----------



## Garty

By the way, next week on NXT, once again, WWE is giving away probably their biggest match they still have in the books and on-paper, which is Balor vs Cole for the NXT Title. More hot-shot booking. Can't they just leave quietly and do their own thing on Tuesdays in a few weeks?! Why throw it away now?!


----------



## yeahright2

Garty is All Elite said:


> By the way, next week on NXT, once again, WWE is giving away probably their biggest match they still have in the books and on-paper, which is Balor vs Cole for the NXT Title. More hot-shot booking. Can't they just leave quietly and do their own thing on Tuesdays in a few weeks?! Why throw it away now?!


Go out with a bang? It could be strategy to get people to follow them. Their first show on a Tuesday will be stacked as well.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Garty is All Elite said:


> By the way, next week on NXT, once again, WWE is giving away probably their biggest match they still have in the books and on-paper, which is Balor vs Cole for the NXT Title. More hot-shot booking. Can't they just leave quietly and do their own thing on Tuesdays in a few weeks?! Why throw it away now?!


Did AEW just have Shaq wrestle on TV for free or was I dreaming?


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> Page absolutely should be on the show, just not with the putty patrol.


If corona wasn't a thing John Silver might be most over person on show. Stars come in all shapes & sizes.


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> If corona wasn't a thing John Silver might be most over person on show. Stars come in all shapes & sizes.


He is a tiny goof, not a star. Someone like Rey Mysterio is a once in a generation star. Who wants to see a tiny goof look competitive against actual stars and potential stars besides those who are 5'4 basement dwellers themselves trying to live vicariously?


----------



## zaz102

NathanMayberry said:


> Did AEW just have Shaq wrestle on TV for free or was I dreaming?


I don't get the hot shotting argument at all. Having PPV quality matches on TV is part of what got WCW on the map when they revitalized the wrestling industry.


----------



## PushCrymeTyme

luv seeing things like this........mean aew is hitting the right buttons

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1367341005725257731


----------



## La Parka

PushCrymeTyme said:


> luv seeing things like this........mean aew is hitting the right buttons
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1367341005725257731


Who the hell is Ben Morse


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> He is a tiny goof, not a star. Someone like Rey Mysterio is a once in a generation star. Who wants to see a tiny goof look competitive against actual stars and potential stars besides those who are 5'4 basement dwellers themselves trying to live vicariously?


Only data matters. Closed minds lead to missed opportunities


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Only data matters. Closed minds lead to missed opportunities


The data shows that a lot less people are wrestling fans today than before and goofiness is one of the biggest reasons why.


----------



## zaz102

Two Sheds said:


> The data shows that a lot less people are wrestling fans today than before and goofiness is one of the biggest reasons why.


What? Where's the data on goofiness/comedy is one of the biggest reason why there are less wrestling fans?

There was a lot of goofiness/comedy during the WCW/WWE Monday Night Wars.


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> The data shows that a lot less people are wrestling fans today than before and goofiness is one of the biggest reasons why.


Two biggest home grown stars are Darby & Orange. If somebody's over you push them regardless of what you think a wrestler should look like.


----------



## One Shed

zaz102 said:


> What? Where's the data on goofiness/comedy is one of the biggest reason why there are less wrestling fans?
> 
> There was a lot of goofiness/comedy during the WCW/WWE Monday Night Wars.


One of the surveys we have all discussed on here frequently. Asked why they no longer watch:


It seemed more cartoonish than when I liked it – 30%
Storylines were not as good/interesting – 29%
Characters were not as good/interesting – 28%
Matches were not as good/interesting – 26%
The content was more geared toward children – 14%
Announcing was not as good – 9%
The show wasn’t listening to the fans – 7%
Other – 24%
Not sure – 12%


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Two biggest home grown stars are Darby & Orange. If somebody's over you push them regardless of what you think a wrestler should look like.


Even Tony realizes Trashidy has a low ceiling and is a two dimensional half trick pony. Pushing people who look too unbelievable makes people tune out. You can only suspend disbelief so much. Darby has done a good job showing he is not afraid to hurt himself to win and is good at using his whole body as a weapon.


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> One of the surveys we have all discussed on here frequently. Asked why they no longer watch:
> 
> 
> It seemed more cartoonish than when I liked it – 30%
> Storylines were not as good/interesting – 29%
> Characters were not as good/interesting – 28%
> Matches were not as good/interesting – 26%
> The content was more geared toward children – 14%
> Announcing was not as good – 9%
> The show wasn’t listening to the fans – 7%
> Other – 24%
> Not sure – 12%


Great then wwe Wednesday should out rate aew always instead of never.
...& nwa should've done more views than dark.
...& roh should've have peaked with young bucks & not fallen in heap after they left.


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> Even Tony realizes Trashidy has a low ceiling and is a two dimensional half trick pony. Pushing people who look too unbelievable makes people tune out. You can only suspend disbelief so much. Darby has done a good job showing he is not afraid to hurt himself to win and is good at using his whole body as a weapon.


You're suggesting company shouldn't push ppl who do high ratings or move merch. I take it you don't run a business


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Great then wwe Wednesday should out rate aew always instead of never.
> ...& nwa should've done more views than dark.
> ...& roh should've have peaked with young bucks & not fallen in heap after they left.


So you want MORE goofs? Less good characters? You saying that is what draws? That argument makes no sense.

WWE, after a decade and a half of doing kiddy/goofy stuff more and more has lost most of their fanbase, but they still beat AEW because of where they started. Most people have stopped watching ALL wrestling and they told us why. NXT is filled with 100 replaceable flippers too and is their developmental brand. People want good characters and stories, not routine performers.

NWA/ROH/TNA mismanagement is a completely separate topic.


----------



## zaz102

Two Sheds said:


> One of the surveys we have all discussed on here frequently. Asked why they no longer watch:
> 
> 
> It seemed more cartoonish than when I liked it – 30%
> Storylines were not as good/interesting – 29%
> Characters were not as good/interesting – 28%
> Matches were not as good/interesting – 26%
> The content was more geared toward children – 14%
> Announcing was not as good – 9%
> The show wasn’t listening to the fans – 7%
> Other – 24%
> Not sure – 12%


Do you have any link on where this survey was performed? Not to be an ass, but I'm interested to see if it's a small sample, a certain sect of fans, or if it's a comprehensive unbiased survey.

I'll ignore everything outside the Monday Night Wars since it was highest point (which had a ton of goofy characters (Santino, Boogeyman, Doink, Godwin, Hornswoggle etc.). You still had WCW Warrior, Disco Inferno, Alex Wright, Val Venis, Crash Holly, etc.). I wonder if people are wearing nostalgia goggles.


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> You're suggesting company shouldn't push ppl who do high ratings or move merch. I take it you don't run a business


I already spent time before laying out Trashidy's ratings. The only time he was in the highest rated segment in the entirety of his program with Jericho is when Bischoff showed up on TNT for the first time in 20 years (and it was leaked the week before). As for merch, we do not have any numbers, except for one. The owner of PWT when asked what his top selling shirt of all time was said it was the main Bullet Club shirt and estimated it had sold 150,000. 150,000 in six years is an average of 25,000 a year. You impressed by THAT number? I am not. On my street, I am sure there is a kid's lemonade stand that sells the most product too, but that is not very impressive. You push a clown, you get a reputation for being a circus. That limits your growth potential. I am happy to see him getting much, MUCH less screen time and having only one match the whole year on the show. Still too much, but much better.


----------



## One Shed

zaz102 said:


> Do you have any link on where this survey was performed? Not to be an ass, but I'm interested to see if it's a small sample, a certain sect of fans, or if it's a comprehensive unbiased survey.
> 
> I'll ignore everything outside the Monday Night Wars since it was highest point (which had a ton of goofy characters (Santino, Boogeyman, Doink, Godwin, Hornswoggle etc.). You still had WCW Warrior, Disco Inferno, Alex Wright, Val Venis, Crash Holly, etc.). I wonder if people are wearing nostalgia goggles.


I take it with a grain of salt like most polls, but it was YouGov that did the poll not Jim Cornette.

Yes, there has always been comedy (which I am not complaining about, just BAD comedy) and goofy characters in wrestling but it was counterbalanced by having a solid main event scene where the goofs would rightly get kicked in the head if they got near any of the stars.









WWE’s Mounting Problems: Audience Declines, Saudi Arabia, Andrew Yang


Storm clouds continue to gather for Vince McMahon’s WWE. VIP has covered its audience decline in detail, and while this continues and is a long-term concern, other issues are now rearing their head…




variety.com


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> I already spent time before laying out Trashidy's ratings. The only time he was in the highest rated segment in the entirety of his program with Jericho is when Bischoff showed up on TNT for the first time in 20 years (and it was leaked the week before). As for merch, we do not have any numbers, except for one. The owner of PWT when asked what his top selling shirt of all time was said it was the main Bullet Club shirt and estimated it had sold 150,000. 150,000 in six years is an average of 25,000 a year. You impressed by THAT number? I am not. On my street, I am sure there is a kid's lemonade stand that sells the most product too, but that is not very impressive. You push a clown, you get a reputation for being a circus. That limits your growth potential. I am happy to see him getting much, MUCH less screen time and having only one match the whole year on the show. Still too much, but much better.


The times aew has passed the million mark minute to minute Orange has featured more than anybody else. Off the top of my head the wedding segment Orange crashed was highest rated segment a short while ago so you've been caught lying there.

You don't know what numbers Orange merch has sold, however aew is much bigger platform than roh so it's foolish to base it on past sales of bucks. It's probably much higher. At very least you can say he moves most merch & that should be basis for push.

Your perception is not fact. Only thing that matters are metrics like TV ratings. Verne Gagne thought Hulk Hogan was a clown who exposed business. He should've listen to fans & cash registers.


----------



## BabyGorilla

Pippen94 said:


> If corona wasn't a thing John Silver might be most over person on show. Stars come in all shapes & sizes.


I guess you have not been a wrestling fan for a long time. It's very rare that a star is 5'2 or whatever Silver is.



Pippen94 said:


> Two biggest home grown stars are Darby & Orange. If somebody's over you push them regardless of what you think a wrestler should look like.


Not true, imagine Darby on bus window, people would laugh.


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> So you want MORE goofs? Less good characters? You saying that is what draws? That argument makes no sense.
> 
> WWE, after a decade and a half of doing kiddy/goofy stuff more and more has lost most of their fanbase, but they still beat AEW because of where they started. Most people have stopped watching ALL wrestling and they told us why. NXT is filled with 100 replaceable flippers too and is their developmental brand. People want good characters and stories, not routine performers.
> 
> NWA/ROH/TNA mismanagement is a completely separate topic.


Never said that. Simply said over wrestlers should be pushed. That's basic business.

On other subject, some random poll means shit particularly if they're interviewing ppl similar to here who have preconceived view on what wrestling should be. 
Data that matter are numbers shows do. Aew exceeds any throwback product which does straight wrestling. Prove otherwise


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> The times aew has passed the million mark minute to minute Orange has featured more than anybody else. Off the top of my the wedding segment Orange crashed was highest rated segment a short while ago so you've been caught lying there.
> 
> You don't know what numbers Orange merch has sold, however aew is much bigger platform than roh so it's foolish to base it on past sales of bucks. It's probably much higher. At very least you can say he moves most merch & that should be basis for push.
> 
> Your perception is not fact. Only thing that matters are metrics like TV ratings. Verne Gagne thought Hulk Hogan was a clown who exposed business. He should've listen to fans & cash registers.


You cannot use numbers that are not published, but selectively leaked, with no possibility to fact check. Sorry, just no. I showed the actual numbers that were released so my point stands. If you want goofy wedding segments, why are you not a WWE fan?

Neither of us know how much Merch he sold. Who is basing his sales on two other goofs? I mentioned the Bullet Club shirt. What do you mean by "probably" and then tell me that perception is not fact? Probably is you guessing. My point is no matter what the number is, it is not very impressive. Someone is going to sell the most balloons at a clown show. If he really is their top merch seller, the problem is they have not really created any stars, just wasted the one they started with. If the only thing that matters are TV ratings, then Smackdown is by far the best wrestling show followed by RAW, right?


----------



## BabyGorilla

Pippen94 said:


> Never said that. Simply said over wrestlers should be pushed. That's basic business.
> 
> On other subject, some random poll means shit particularly if they're interviewing ppl similar to here who have preconceived view on what wrestling should be.
> Data that matter are numbers shows do. Aew exceeds any throwback product which does straight wrestling. Prove otherwise


Both the NWA and the ROH are better products than All Elite. Just don't have same budget.


----------



## Prosper

BabyGorilla said:


> Not true, imagine Darby on bus window, people would laugh.


No they wouldn’t. Non wrestling fans would look at it and say “that’s some cool face paint” and move on with their lives. Wrestling fans would already know him if they watch AEW.


----------



## zaz102

Two Sheds said:


> I take it with a grain of salt like most polls, but it was YouGov that did the poll not Jim Cornette.
> 
> Yes, there has always been comedy (which I am not complaining about, just BAD comedy) and goofy characters in wrestling but it was counterbalanced by having a solid main event scene where the goofs would rightly get kicked in the head if they got near any of the stars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WWE’s Mounting Problems: Audience Declines, Saudi Arabia, Andrew Yang
> 
> 
> Storm clouds continue to gather for Vince McMahon’s WWE. VIP has covered its audience decline in detail, and while this continues and is a long-term concern, other issues are now rearing their head…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> variety.com


Thanks for the link. Still not 100% sold on the goofiness thing. It just says more cartoonish which could also mean something different than just comedy (WWE PG content now vs. PG-13 content during Monday Night Wars).

Also, you still had goofy characters winning in main events then (WCW Warrior, Jay Leno, Crash Holly, the goofy version of Mankind, etc.).

I know we won't get the info, but I would be curious to hear WWE's take. They have less viewers, but are more profitable than ever. Also, they made the choice to change their demo from 18-49 to children knowing that they would probably lose that demo. I assume they made that choice for financial reasons, but it would be cool hear some facts behind it.

That's why it confuses me when people shit all over WWE and how many people are watching. Despite personally not liking the product, they are making a ton of money.


----------



## BabyGorilla

Prosper said:


> No they wouldn’t. Non wrestling fans would look at it and say “that’s some cool face paint” and move on with their lives. Wrestling fans would already know him if they watch AEW.


If they see wrestling and a 145 pound guy on the bus they would laugh. Do not question this.


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Never said that. Simply said over wrestlers should be pushed. That's basic business.
> 
> On other subject, some random poll means shit particularly if they're interviewing ppl similar to here who have preconceived view on what wrestling should be.
> Data that matter are numbers shows do. Aew exceeds any throwback product which does straight wrestling. Prove otherwise


Polls mean nothing if you ask people who actually have opinions? That might be the dumbest sentence I have ever read on here. EVERYONE is biased. And a LOT more people are no longer watching wrestling than currently do. Would be nice if Tony, Vince, or whoever actually listened and did something about it. Nah, more orange juice and weddings, pal!

AEW became #2 by default just by existing and spending the money to buy their place. Business connections to buy a place on a major network. Now I am not criticizing that, any good business person would do that, but we should not pretend it is anything other than that. The Rock or a billionaire could buy the NWA tomorrow and get it a slot on NBC and it would be bigger than AEW by not even showing any wrestling.


----------



## One Shed

zaz102 said:


> Thanks for the link. Still not 100% sold on the goofiness thing. It just says more cartoonish which could also mean something different than just comedy (WWE PG content now vs. PG-13 content during Monday Night Wars).
> 
> Also, you still had goofy characters winning in main events then (WCW Warrior, Jay Leno, Crash Holly, the goofy version of Mankind, etc.).
> 
> I know we won't get the info, but I would be curious to hear WWE's take. They have less viewers, but are more profitable than ever. Also, they made the choice to change their demo from 18-49 to children knowing that they would probably lose that demo. I assume they made that choice for financial reasons, but it would be cool hear some facts behind it.
> 
> That's why it confuses me when people shit all over WWE and how many people are watching. Despite personally not liking the product, they are making a ton of money.


Well, how did Warrior in WCW turn out for them ratings wise? Jay Leno was silly, but he was a huge celebrity and got eyes on the product. Bischoff and Hogan actually took over the real Tonight Show for a segment. Has something like THAT ever happened before or since? Crash Holly and Mankind were not that goofy once the bell rang. Everyone knew Foley was legit so he earned a creative license to do some of that.

Vince is very good at promoting even if I hate a lot of what the product has become. If confuses me to see people shit all over the WWE and then praise the goofy stuff AEW does and say things like "Oh wow that wedding segment was great!" or "Man Orange Cassidy is so amazing." Like, The New Day have existed for a long time. Why are you not watching THAT? It is the same goofy nonsense except the New Day actually at least consist of good wrestlers even if they are goofy.


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> You cannot use numbers that are not published, but selectively leaked, with no possibility to fact check. Sorry, just no. I showed the actual numbers that were released so my point stands. If you want goofy wedding segments, why are you not a WWE fan?
> 
> Neither of us know how much Merch he sold. Who is basing his sales on two other goofs? I mentioned the Bullet Club shirt. What do you mean by "probably" and then tell me that perception is not fact? Probably is you guessing. My point is no matter what the number is, it is not very impressive. Someone is going to sell the most balloons at a clown show. If he really is their top merch seller, the problem is they have not really created any stars, just wasted the one they started with. If the only thing that matters are TV ratings, then Smackdown is by far the best wrestling show followed by RAW, right?


Aew is wwe's biggest competitor since wcw. With DVR does viewership of over a million each week & that is viewers we know of not including YouTube legal or otherwise. The act which moves most merch I assume does considerable number, but keep thinking company is small & dying - how's that working out for you?!

Nothing to do with smack down ratings or balloons, however if you're selling balloons & one type sells more than other which one are you going to order more of in future?!


----------



## BabyGorilla

Pippen94 said:


> Aew is wwe's biggest competitor since wcw.


Funny man.


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Aew is wwe's biggest competitor since wcw. With DVR does viewership of over a million each week & that is viewers we know of not including YouTube legal or otherwise. The act which moves most merch I assume does considerable number, but keep thinking company is small & dying - how's that working out for you?!
> 
> Nothing to do with smack down ratings or balloons, however if you're selling balloons & one type sells more than other which one are you going to order more of in future?!


When did I say they were dying? Stop putting words in my mouth and arguing against a straw man. You use words like "probably" and "assume" when it comes to merch. Neither of us has any idea if he sells 50 shirts or 50,000. We just know it is less than 150,000.

Your sentences are hard to read with your grammar, truly. I guess in your analogy, you would be ordering a lot more SmackDown and RAW balloons.


----------



## Prosper

BabyGorilla said:


> If they see wrestling and a 145 pound guy on the bus they would laugh. Do not question this.


There's nothing funny about it though. If I never watched wrestling in my life and saw Darby on a bus I wouldn't give a shit. I would say "cool face paint" and keep driving to my destination.


----------



## BabyGorilla

Prosper said:


> There's nothing funny about it though. If I never watched wrestling in my life and saw Darby on a bus I wouldn't give a shit. I would say "cool face paint" and keep driving to my destination.


You probably have a Marko Stunt poster on your wall. The AEW homegrowns are a joke to pro wrestling.


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> Polls mean nothing if you ask people who actually have opinions? That might be the dumbest sentence I have ever read on here. EVERYONE is biased. And a LOT more people are no longer watching wrestling than currently do. Would be nice if Tony, Vince, or whoever actually listened and did something about it. Nah, more orange juice and weddings, pal!
> 
> AEW became #2 by default just by existing and spending the money to buy their place. Business connections to buy a place on a major network. Now I am not criticizing that, any good business person would do that, but we should not pretend it is anything other than that. The Rock or a billionaire could buy the NWA tomorrow and get it a slot on NBC and it would be bigger than AEW by not even showing any wrestling.


Polls mean shit. If you ignore every other metric for some random poll you'd be a f'n idiot. You think TNT signed aew because of poll or it's ratings??

TNA never reached heights of aew despite being on major cable network, boasting stars like Hogan & Sting & not even facing wrestling competition.
A Rock company would make big splash but would it sustain audience?? Aew have strong base they would not


----------



## BabyGorilla

Pippen94 said:


> Polls mean shit. If you ignore every other metric for some random poll you'd be a f'n idiot. You think TNT signed aew because of poll or it's ratings??
> 
> TNA never reached heights of aew despite being on major cable network, boasting stars like Hogan & Sting & not even facing wrestling competition.
> A Rock company would make big splash but would it sustain audience?? Aew have strong base they would not


TNA highest rating 1.45. AEW will never achieve it.


----------



## Prosper

BabyGorilla said:


> You probably have a Marko Stunt poster on your wall. The AEW homegrowns are a joke to pro wrestling.


Lol now you're passively insulting me for no reason.


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Polls mean shit. If you ignore every other metric for some random poll you'd be a f'n idiot. You think TNT signed aew because of poll or it's ratings??
> 
> TNA never reached heights of aew despite being on major cable network, boasting stars like Hogan & Sting & not even facing wrestling competition.
> A Rock company would make big splash but would it sustain audience?? Aew have strong base they would not


What? I do take polls with a grain of salt, but they are worth noting. This is about long term building. It would be smart to know WHY the vast majority of wrestling fans stopped watching, no? Maybe a growing company might want to entice them back?

TNA had much higher ratings than AEW has ever had, but much lower than WWE, and had an amazing amount of mismanagement issues. You really think if The Rock, the biggest movie star in the world, started his own company using the idea that made his successful in wrestling and Hollywood it would not be huge? The Rock has a much larger fanbase than AEW or WWE. What a ridiculous statement.


----------



## BabyGorilla

Prosper said:


> Lol now you're passively insulting me for no reason.


I do not have to like you,

AEW rely on WWE star because AEW homegrown are a joke (Few exceptions)


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> When did I say they were dying? Stop putting words in my mouth and arguing against a straw man. You use words like "probably" and "assume" when it comes to merch. Neither of us has any idea if he sells 50 shirts or 50,000. We just know it is less than 150,000.
> 
> Your sentences are hard to read with your grammar, truly. I guess in your analogy, you would be ordering a lot more SmackDown and RAW balloons.


You're negative about every bit of news coming out of the place. It's only right to assume all your doom & gloom is indication that company will surely & quickly die.

When you attack grammar you've lost argument. When you bring up smack down ratings for no reason you don't have an argument


----------



## Prosper

BabyGorilla said:


> I do not have to like you,
> 
> AEW rely on WWE star because AEW homegrown are a joke (Few exceptions)


Do you know how idiotic you sound right now? You're not shitting on AEW at a high enough level for me to give you a real response to this. Go back to bed Baby Gorilla.


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> You're negative about every bit of news coming out of the place. It's only right to assume all your doom & gloom is indication that company will surely & quickly die.
> 
> When you attack grammar you've lost argument. When you bring up smack down ratings for no reason you don't have an argument


I am only negative about dumb things. I praised their first hour last night in the live thread as their best ever, but you are never in the live thread. Weird.

I bring it up because it makes your posts difficult to read. There were several reasons to bring up SmackDown ratings, all of which I pointed out. You just want to dismiss them because they are inconvenient to the narrative you are trying to push. But never let facts get in the way of a good narrative.

None of this post of yours actually addressed anything I said in mine. You have no more points to make.


----------



## Pippen94

@BabyGorilla somebody needs to check this as sockpuppet account


----------



## One Shed

Prosper said:


> Do you know how idiotic you sound right now? You're not shitting on AEW at a high enough level for me to give you a real response to this. Go back to bed Baby Gorilla.


Hey now, if I am going to be warned for calling someone a kid on here, it is only fair to be consistent. Not everyone on here is from a natively English speaking country. Even some that are have piss poor grammar though.


----------



## BabyGorilla

Prosper said:


> Do you know how idiotic you sound right now? You're not shitting on AEW at a high enough level for me to give you a real response to this. Go back to bed Baby Gorilla.


It is 12 PM.

I don't think it's an idiotic thinking. AEW homegrown talent are not that great, if you disagree that is fine.



Pippen94 said:


> @BabyGorilla somebody needs to check this as sockpuppet account


Do not come at me this way.


----------



## BabyGorilla

Two Sheds said:


> Hey now, if I am going to be warned for calling someone a kid on here, it is only fair to be consistent. Not everyone on here is from a natively English speaking country. Even some that are have piss poor grammar though.


English is my second language but I am not bad at the language, I do not ask for sympathy. If people want to be racial that is okay, moderators will not accept this.


----------



## Prosper

Two Sheds said:


> Hey now, if I am going to be warned for calling someone a kid on here, it is only fair to be consistent. Not everyone on here is from a natively English speaking country. Even some that are have piss poor grammar though.


I'm not shitting on his grammar, just his way of thinking. I understand what he's saying, I'm saying that there are so many problems with his argument that it's not worth my time.


----------



## KingofKings1524

BabyGorilla said:


> English is my second language but I am not bad at the language, I do not ask for sympathy. If people want to be racial that is okay, moderators will not accept this.


You’re a weird guy, Ace. Although I’m entertained so far.


----------



## BabyGorilla

KingofKings1524 said:


> You’re a weird guy, Ace. Although I’m entertained so far.


You mean Uce? Thank you! Maybe you are a good man.


----------



## One Shed

Prosper said:


> I'm not shitting on his grammar, just his way of thinking. I understand what he's saying, I'm saying that there are so many problems with his argument that it's not worth my time.


There are a few people I want to tell that it is time for them to go nappy, but have to resist now


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> I am only negative about dumb things. I praised their first hour last night in the live thread as their best ever, but you are never in the live thread. Weird.
> 
> I bring it up because it makes your posts difficult to read. There were several reasons to bring up SmackDown ratings, all of which I pointed out. You just want to dismiss them because they are inconvenient to the narrative you are trying to push. But never let facts get in the way of a good narrative.
> 
> None of this post of yours actually addressed anything I said in mine. You have no more points to make.


Attacking grammar is just a cheap way to claim superiority & avoid mounting counter arguments of your own.
You never have any evidence to back anything you say. Your whole argument is that aew should stop doing everything that works & start doing stuff that doesn't currently work for anybody.

Aew needing to push wrestlers who do best ratings has nothing to do with smack down - that's just a deflection on your part.

Saying merch sales for company which has viewership in excess of a million ppl in the USA is comparable to lemonade stand sales is just you talking out of your backside... again.


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> Attacking grammar is just a cheap way to claim superiority & avoid mounting counter arguments of your own.
> You never have any evidence to back anything you say. Your whole argument is that aew should stop doing everything that works & start doing stuff that doesn't currently work for anybody.
> 
> "But I don't understand what you've written...the grammar..."
> 
> How about before you recycle arguments from others like Jim Cornette, @chipchipperson or whomever you make sure can actually think for yourself so you can engage in an argument & offer some decent points?!


But that is not what happened is it? I pointed out your poor grammar in addition to refuting your arguments, not in lieu of doing so. Yet you stopped actually discussing my points two posts ago now. Projecting much?

It IS difficult to understand what you type because 1. It is poorly written and 2. You rarely respond to what I actually say. You respond to this imaginary position you want me to hold, but that no living person actually does because it is easier for you to respond to. That is the straw man fallacy.

Why would I need to use talking points when I only speak for myself? Your last sentence again makes no grammatical sense. I do not need anyone to think for me, but you might need someone to write for you.

My argument is partially that wrestling used to be a TON more popular, a lot of people have stopped watching, and we have a good understanding of what the reasons are they stopped. It makes no sense to me how some people on here can HATE WWE but then love things like Marko, Trashidy, guys oiling themselves up, nonstop tiny dudes, and Miro in a wedding angle when WWE has been showcasing a bigger budget of all that stuff for years and literally that in Miro's case. That is why I call so much of it WWE Lite. Some of us actually want a more serious product, not a clown show. The last thing I want is what we could call a fourth brand of WWE.


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> But that is not what happened is it? I pointed out your poor grammar in addition to refuting your arguments, not in lieu of doing so. Yet you stopped actually discussing my points two posts ago now. Projecting much?
> 
> It IS difficult to understand what you type because 1. It is poorly written and 2. You rarely respond to what I actually say. You respond to this imaginary position you want me to hold, but that no living person actually does because it is easier for you to respond to. That is the straw man fallacy.
> 
> Why would I need to use talking points when I only speak for myself? Your last sentence again makes no grammatical sense. I do not need anyone to think for me, but you might need someone to write for you.
> 
> My argument is partially that wrestling used to be a TON more popular, a lot of people have stopped watching, and we have a good understanding of what the reasons are they stopped. It makes no sense to me how some people on here can HATE WWE but then love things like Marko, Trashidy, guys oiling themselves up, nonstop tiny dudes, and Miro in a wedding angle when WWE has been showcasing a bigger budget of all that stuff for years and literally that in Miro's case. That is why I call so much of it WWE Lite. Some of us actually want a more serious product, not a clown show. The last thing I want is what we could call a fourth brand of WWE.


You keep responding so you clearly can comprehend what I'm saying. Nobody ever is bothered by grammar when they're winning. If you were truly superior you'd just counter my argument successfully - but you can't.

Your argument is aew should stopping pushing guy who gets best rating & adopt more serious approach. Fuck me if aew doesn't beat that style of wrestling in the ratings every week. Nowhere currently in wrestling does a serious approach draw & certainly not to extent of aew. 
The only thing you offer in support is a ratty old poll of embittered fans like yourself who pine for the days of sports like presentation (which never really existed).
Did I miss anything?!

Aew has existed for over two years & it ain't changing for you. You can act superior all you want but you spend all day here talking about a product you despise (despite some sops you pretend to offer up at times). Clearly whining here furfils some need - doesn't come across as very superior to me


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> You keep responding so you clearly can comprehend what I'm saying. Nobody ever is bothered by grammar when they're winning. If you were truly superior you'd just counter my argument successfully - but you can't.
> 
> Your argument is aew should stopping pushing guy who gets best rating & adopt more serious approach. Fuck me if aew doesn't beat that style of wrestling in the ratings every week. Nowhere currently in wrestling does a serious approach draw & certainly not to extent of aew.
> The only thing you offer in support is a ratty old poll of embittered fans like yourself who pine for the days of sports like presentation (which never really existed).
> Did I miss anything?!
> 
> Aew has existed for over two years & it ain't changing for you. You can act superior all you want but you spend all day here talking about a product you despise (despite some sops you pretend to offer up at times). Clearly whining here furfils some need - doesn't come across as very superior to me


It takes extra time and effort to do the translation. I admit I am CDO so I am always going to be bothered by piss poor grammar no matter what. It has nothing to do with your illogical arguments, but those two things do seem to have a reasonably good overlap. Your arguments, so much as they are, have been countered every time.

Speaking of which, Trashidy does NOT get the best rating. I posted my actual data before to show this. I have explained why you cannot use unverifiable data like the minute to minutes. AEW does not beat the A vs A show, but they could and they should. I have argued for it and I want them to do it. Their problem is they keep shackling deadweight to their legs. WWE draws WAY more than AEW overall and I hate most of what WWE does. So in your universe, they should be MORE like WWE right? They are the ones drawing the ratings and moving a TON more merch after all right? In my data universe, looking at why fans stopped watching, I want AEW to be LESS like WWE not MORE. We get WWE Lite most weeks.

I am not acting superior, I am saying if you want goofy stuff, you already have WWE. You avoid the live threads, but then try to claim I am not a fan when I am actually in there watching live every week. Stop making black and white arguments. You once again falsely claim I despise AEW when I just despise the goofy stuff they do. When they do good stuff (like they did in hour one this week) I am here praising it live. Where are you? Just swooping in after the fact.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> *AEW DYNAMITE 3/3/21 Ratings Prediction game
> AEW: 934,000 (0.33, #6 on cable)
> 
> Yeahright2 925K*
> Garty is All Elite 1.1million
> La Parka 850k
> LifeInCattleClass 950k / 0.37
> TD Stinger 950k
> The Wood 881k
> Pippen94 Over a million - demo 0.46.
> Pentagon Senior 910k 0.37 demo
> The Doctor Middy Experience 950k
> MoxAsylum 1 million
> RapShepard 989k .42 demo
> Klitschko 980k.
> 
> As far as I can see..* I WIN !!*
> Eat Crow @Garty is All Elite  I told you we were coming for you! LOL
> (if there´s anyone who predicted and want to be on the list, either pm or reply here, and I´ll update)
> 
> Edit; Thanks for playing everyone.. Let´s do it again next week? But I´ll wait with the prediction until after the PPV


spot on, you win!

this game might actually make the thread fun


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> It takes extra time and effort to do the translation. I admit I am CDO so I am always going to be bothered by piss poor grammar no matter what. It has nothing to do with your illogical arguments, but those two things do seem to have a reasonably good overlap. Your arguments, so much as they are, have been countered every time.
> 
> Speaking of which, Trashidy does NOT get the best rating. I posted my actual data before to show this. I have explained why you cannot use unverifiable data like the minute to minutes. AEW does not beat the A vs A show, but they could and they should. I have argued for it and I want them to do it. Their problem is they keep shackling deadweight to their legs. WWE draws WAY more than AEW overall and I hate most of what WWE does. So in your universe, they should be MORE like WWE right? They are the ones drawing the ratings and moving a TON more merch after all right? In my data universe, looking at why fans stopped watching, I want AEW to be LESS like WWE not MORE. We get WWE Lite most weeks.
> 
> I am not acting superior, I am saying if you want goofy stuff, you already have WWE. You avoid the live threads, but then try to claim I am not a fan when I am actually in there watching live every week. Stop making black and white arguments. You once again falsely claim I despise AEW when I just despise the goofy stuff they do. When they do good stuff (like they did in hour one this week) I am here praising it live. Where are you? Just swooping in after the fact.


No, I've countered all your opinions but because you just borrow them from Cornette they have no basis in today's reality so you can't defend them. That's when you get butthurt & attack grammar - I'm going to finish this sentence without a full stop to piss you off

If Aew is looking to grow it shouldn't replicate wwe as that product is in decline & not attracting new fans.

Peak audience is best indication of viewership because viewers slip out for ads or talking segments. Orange Cassidy segments have passed million mark in peak more than any other performer for aew including last time for the wedding. 

Anybody who has been subjected to your posts know you hate the company. The only time you say you don't is when you're called out on your hate. You spend a considerable time thinking & posting about something you clearly hate.
Talk about something that is truly hard to comprehend


----------



## zkorejo

NathanMayberry said:


> Did AEW just have Shaq wrestle on TV for free or was I dreaming?


Shaq was always going to compete on Dynamite on TNT, the network that he works for.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> What you guys think would make women interested in watching AEW or wrestling in general ?


Sexy men.


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> spot on, you win!
> 
> this game might actually make the thread fun


I was considering if the game is worthy of it´s own thread?


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> You're negative about every bit of news coming out of the place. It's only right to assume all your doom & gloom is indication that company will surely & quickly die.
> 
> When you attack grammar you've lost argument. When you bring up smack down ratings for no reason you don't have an argument


When you claim someone doesn’t have an argument when they thoroughly go over all your points is when you’ve got no argument. How about you respond to what Two Sheds is actually laying down?



Pippen94 said:


> Attacking grammar is just a cheap way to claim superiority & avoid mounting counter arguments of your own.
> You never have any evidence to back anything you say. Your whole argument is that aew should stop doing everything that works & start doing stuff that doesn't currently work for anybody.
> 
> Aew needing to push wrestlers who do best ratings has nothing to do with smack down - that's just a deflection on your part.
> 
> Saying merch sales for company which has viewership in excess of a million ppl in the USA is comparable to lemonade stand sales is just you talking out of your backside... again.


My Noona always sells more jam at the church fete than Thelma, but that doesn’t necessarily mean she sells a lot of jam. “Most” and “best” are relative terms. There’s a reason we never hear _how many_ t-shirts these massive merch-movers move.

The guy from ProWrestlingTees or whatever they’re called has gone on record saying that their best selling shirt of all-time is The Bullet Club shirt. He estimates they sold maybe 100k of them. That’s since the shirt has been around. That’s, what? Since 2013? That’s maybe 14,300 shirts a year. That’s 275 shirts a week. That’s 40 shirts a day.

This is what people are going nuts about. It works for a small number of people who really love it, but there is a larger audience out there that is not getting serviced. And terms like “most” help cloud that by making the best of a bad lot look way more productive and effective than they are.


----------



## thorn123

Reasonable rating, but deserves more. 
Even with the wight and whoever is coming, I don’t think they will crack a million regularly.


----------



## The Wood

The writing has been on the wall with the elusive 1 million mark for a long time. It just isn’t going to happen without a major signing.


----------



## TD Stinger

zkorejo said:


> Shaq was always going to compete on Dynamite on TNT, the network that he works for.


I think they originally had planned Shaq to wrestle at Revolution, but then Revolution moved to the same date as the NBA All Star game, so they did it early. That's the impression I got.


----------



## zkorejo

TD Stinger said:


> I think they originally had planned Shaq to wrestle at Revolution, but then Revolution moved to the same date as the NBA All Star game, so they did it early. That's the impression I got.


I am pretty certain its TNT using stars to cross over different shows in order to attract viewers to the programming on their shows. Having him on PPV wouldnt increase viewership for TNT/Dynamite. I mean it may not be the case but it seems like a logical business move.


----------



## zaz102

zkorejo said:


> I am pretty certain its TNT using stars to cross over different shows in order to attract viewers to the programming on their shows. Having him on PPV wouldnt increase viewership for TNT/Dynamite. I mean it may not be the case but it seems like a logical business move.


I agree it's a better move to have on Dynamite, but I do think it had something to do with the All Star game. I thought I remember on Dynamite, originally Cody said it would be at Revolution, then within the next week it was announced the All Star game would be the same day, and then the next week announced for Dynamite.


----------



## 3venflow

Yes, the plan was for this match to be on PPV, but scheduling forced it on to Dynamite. Probably not a bad thing in the long run as I think the Death Match will guarantee the PPV around 100k buys at least.

Also, they have left the door ajar for Cody vs. Shaq on a future PPV which would be a pretty big attraction.


----------



## Aedubya

Great rating/demo


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> No, I've countered all your opinions but because you just borrow them from Cornette they have no basis in today's reality so you can't defend them. That's when you get butthurt & attack grammar - I'm going to finish this sentence without a full stop to piss you off
> 
> If Aew is looking to grow it shouldn't replicate wwe as that product is in decline & not attracting new fans.
> 
> Peak audience is best indication of viewership because viewers slip out for ads or talking segments. Orange Cassidy segments have passed million mark in peak more than any other performer for aew including last time for the wedding.
> 
> Anybody who has been subjected to your posts know you hate the company. The only time you say you don't is when you're called out on your hate. You spend a considerable time thinking & posting about something you clearly hate.
> Talk about something that is truly hard to comprehend


You have not countered anything. You have written words responding to my words. Your sentences are just mostly incomprehensible. It is not my fault your grammar sucks, but it does, and everyone here knows it does.

I agree AEW should not replicate WWE, but that is what they are doing. My point is people here easily point out when WWE does dumb stuff, but when people point out the same stuff when AEW does it they are called haters by the pearl clenchers.

If you want goofs like Trashidy to be featured and more wedding segments, why would you just not be a long time WWE fan? That is Vince 101 booking.

Nah, most people on here know that I just hate dumb stuff. What I want most is a company to actually compete with WWE and cause them to get better as a result like we saw in the 90's. I do not want another clown show.


----------



## zkorejo

zaz102 said:


> I agree it's a better move to have on Dynamite, but I do think it had something to do with the All Star game. I thought I remember on Dynamite, originally Cody said it would be at Revolution, then within the next week it was announced the All Star game would be the same day, and then the next week announced for Dynamite.


I see. Didn't know that Cody said that.


----------



## Klitschko

Am I the only one here that has no idea why Cody and Shaq were even feuding? Why did they hate each other again?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> I was considering if the game is worthy of it´s own thread?


i recon so - but mods might disagree as it can just double up the normal ratings arguments

maybe ask @Firefromthegods ?


----------



## TKO Wrestling

BabyGorilla said:


> Funny man.


Its by far the truth. Statistically and just eyeball test. It isn't even close at this point.


----------



## zaz102

Klitschko said:


> Am I the only one here that has no idea why Cody and Shaq were even feuding? Why did they hate each other again?


It was dumb but pretty much because of Jade. Jade was talking smack to them and Shaq (her friend) had her back. And then Jade started to attack Brandy/Cody/Red Velvet for no great reason other than she wanted to make a name for herself.


----------



## 10gizzle

I see the same old arguments going on here like Clockwork.

People still care about this random 1M mark as if it will make any difference whatsoever. It won't. 

The conversation will just go to will they dip under...when will they hit the elusive 2M....etc...

And frankly - as someone currently rewatching old Nitro shows during their peak - most of those shows were trash.

Funny I remember them being so good.


----------



## rbl85

So the quarter 1 did 1.113M but right after the match they lost close to 150K viewers

Big mistake to do that match in the first quarter because the people who were interested in it left right after the match and those people were mostly 50+


----------



## Prosper

Here are the quarterlies:

AEW:
Q1: Shaq/Jade vs Cody/Velvet: 1,133,000 viewers and 451,000 in 18-49
Q2: End of the Shaq match, the ambulance spot with him and Pac & Rey Fenix vs. D3 & John Skyler: 975,000 viewers and 428,000 in 18-49
Q3: Chris Jericho/MJF press conference with the Young Bucks attack and the Atsushi Onita explosive barbed wire video: 976,000 viewers and 454,000 in 18-49
Q4: JE vs FTR and Tully: 911,000 viewers and 416,000 in 18-49
Q5: Paul Wight interview, the women’s tournament video and the first half of Nyla Rose vs. Ryo Mizunami: 903,000 viewers and 444,000 in 18-49
Q6: End of Rose vs. Mizunami, and the Sting & Darby Allin vs. Team Taz segment. 881,000 viewers and 411,000 in 18-49
Q7: Caster vs 10: 836,000 viewers and 400,000 in 18-49
Q8: Hangman/Silver vs Hardy/Quen: 853,000 viewers and 398,000 in 18-49 

NXT:
Q1: Oney Lorcan & Danny Burch vs. Timothy Thatcher & Tommaso Ciampa: 713,000 viewers and 254,000 in 18-49
Q2: Ending of Lorcan & Burch vs. Ciampa & Thatcher, Finn Balor and Roderick Strong’s angle and the first Gargano family skit: 734,000 viewers and 267,000 in 18-49
Q3: Cameron Grimes with William Regal, Aliyah vs. ember Moon and a Thatcher & Ciampa interview: 701,000 viewers and 250,000 in 18-49
Q4: Toni Storm/Io Shirai video and most of the Shayna Baszler & Nia Jax vs. Dakota Kai & Raquel Gonzalez title match: 743,000 viewers and 271,000 in 18-49
Q5: Rest of Baszler & Jax vs. Kai & Gonzalez, the second Gargano skit and Isaiah Scott promo: 747,000 viewers and 269,000 in 18-49
Q6: L.A. Knight interview and Bronson Reed vs. Grimes: 643,000 viewers and 253,000 in 18-49
Q7: Kayden Carter/Xia Li build, the third part of the Gargano skit and Legado del Fantasmo attacking Ever Rise and Breezango: 663,000 viewers and 255,000 in 18-49
Q8: Finn Balor vs. Roderick Strong: 597,000 viewers and 245,000 in 18-49.


----------



## Erik.

Hangman segments/matches ALWAYS draw.


----------



## Brad Boyd

Well nxt was still better than dynamite this week regardless of what the numbers say. That's the last of these wednesday night wars though.


----------



## Pippen94

Adam Page match had audience peak of over a million & 500k in demo


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Prosper said:


> Here are the quarterlies:
> 
> AEW:
> Q1: Shaq/Jade vs Cody/Velvet: 1,133,000 viewers and 451,000 in 18-49
> Q2: End of the Shaq match, the ambulance spot with him and Pac & Rey Fenix vs. D3 & John Skyler: 975,000 viewers and 428,000 in 18-49
> Q3: Chris Jericho/MJF press conference with the Young Bucks attack and the Atsushi Onita explosive barbed wire video: 976,000 viewers and 454,000 in 18-49
> Q4: JE vs FTR and Tully: 911,000 viewers and 416,000 in 18-49
> Q5: Paul Wight interview, the women’s tournament video and the first half of Nyla Rose vs. Ryo Mizunami: 903,000 viewers and 444,000 in 18-49
> Q6: End of Rose vs. Mizunami, and the Sting & Darby Allin vs. Team Taz segment. 881,000 viewers and 411,000 in 18-49
> Q7: Caster vs 10: 836,000 viewers and 400,000 in 18-49
> Q8: Hangman/Silver vs Hardy/Quen: 853,000 viewers and 398,000 in 18-49
> 
> NXT:
> Q1: Oney Lorcan & Danny Burch vs. Timothy Thatcher & Tommaso Ciampa: 713,000 viewers and 254,000 in 18-49
> Q2: Ending of Lorcan & Burch vs. Ciampa & Thatcher, Finn Balor and Roderick Strong’s angle and the first Gargano family skit: 734,000 viewers and 267,000 in 18-49
> Q3: Cameron Grimes with William Regal, Aliyah vs. ember Moon and a Thatcher & Ciampa interview: 701,000 viewers and 250,000 in 18-49
> Q4: Toni Storm/Io Shirai video and most of the Shayna Baszler & Nia Jax vs. Dakota Kai & Raquel Gonzalez title match: 743,000 viewers and 271,000 in 18-49
> Q5: Rest of Baszler & Jax vs. Kai & Gonzalez, the second Gargano skit and Isaiah Scott promo: 747,000 viewers and 269,000 in 18-49
> Q6: L.A. Knight interview and Bronson Reed vs. Grimes: 643,000 viewers and 253,000 in 18-49
> Q7: Kayden Carter/Xia Li build, the third part of the Gargano skit and Legado del Fantasmo attacking Ever Rise and Breezango: 663,000 viewers and 255,000 in 18-49
> Q8: Finn Balor vs. Roderick Strong: 597,000 viewers and 245,000 in 18-49.


kind of expected

felt like a show done in reverse somehow with the main event done first


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Brad Boyd said:


> Well nxt was still better than dynamite this week regardless of what the numbers say. That's the last of these wednesday night wars though.


only from the 14th of April, isn’t It?

or when does NXT move

and you can bet this isn’t the last - now Dynamite will be compared to NXT, Raw and smackdown


----------



## 3venflow

Edit: Double post


----------



## 3venflow

No surprise that Caster vs. 10 did the weakest quarter. It was a dull match with no oomph whatsoever to it. AEW believes in giving the young guys exposure, but it was hardly MJF vs. Jungle Boy or Darby vs. Sammy. Seems the main event pulled some viewers back, but had they finished the show stronger from Q7, the average would have been a bit higher. Still a good rating and if/when they go unopposed by NXT, shows like that will be a certain 1m+.

They held viewers well with the Shaq ambulance thing, which I said was smart as it gave the illusion that he could appear later in the show.


----------



## Brad Boyd

LifeInCattleClass said:


> only from the 14th of April, isn’t It?
> 
> or when does NXT move
> 
> and you can bet this isn’t the last - now Dynamite will be compared to NXT, Raw and smackdown


Good point. I may have just assumed they're moving next week. But they should be moving to tuesdays soon enough.


----------



## CM Buck

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i recon so - but mods might disagree as it can just double up the normal ratings arguments
> 
> maybe ask @Firefromthegods ?


Yeah I don't see a ratings prediction games thread ending well. People would take it way out of context.


----------



## yeahright2

Firefromthegods said:


> Yeah I don't see a ratings prediction games thread ending well. People would take it way out of context.


That´s a distinct possibility 
Maybe if people were ONLY allowed to post their prediction and not discuss why so and so isn´t a draw or why X wrestler is the reason for good rating this week? If I´m running the game it´d make it easier for me to note people´s predictions.
This weeks game ended without any incidents, and both people who have a somewhat critical view of AEW (like me), and people who are overall positive participated in good fun. (I´m not saying that just because I WON  )


----------



## CM Buck

yeahright2 said:


> That´s a distinct possibility
> Maybe if people were ONLY allowed to post their prediction and not discuss why so and so isn´t a draw or why X wrestler is the reason for good rating this week? If I´m running the game it´d make it easier for me to note people´s predictions.
> This weeks game ended without any incidents, and both people who have a somewhat critical view of AEW (like me), and people who are overall positive participated in good fun. (I´m not saying that just because I WON  )


Give it the ratings and buyrates of revolution and the fallout dynamite and if there's no fighting ill let you.


----------



## yeahright2

Firefromthegods said:


> Give it the ratings and buyrates of revolution and the fallout dynamite and if there's no fighting ill let you.


I had only thought about the Dynamite shows.. I have no idea how their PPVs do in ratings and buyrates 

Just to make it clear.. 
1) We´re keeping it in here until those 2 shows have aired without incidents, and then we try a separate thread?
2) Or do I make the thread and if it turns ugly we kill it?


----------



## CM Buck

yeahright2 said:


> I had only thought about the Dynamite shows.. I have no idea how their PPVs do in ratings and buyrates
> 
> Just to make it clear..
> 1) We´re keeping it in here until those 2 shows have aired without incidents, and then we try a separate thread?
> 2) Or do I make the thread and if it turns ugly we kill it?


Keeping it in here and if no incidents you can come out of the closet the week after dynamite revolution fallout show


----------



## yeahright2

Firefromthegods said:


> Keeping it in here and if no incidents you can come out of the closet the week after dynamite revolution fallout show


Okay.. The PPV is just around the corner. 
*I´m taking numbers if anyone care to guess?*
I´ll make my prediction later, when I can see what people guess (I know, playing it safe)


----------



## tower_

Prosper said:


> Here are the quarterlies:
> 
> AEW:
> Q1: Shaq/Jade vs Cody/Velvet: 1,133,000 viewers and 451,000 in 18-49
> Q2: End of the Shaq match, the ambulance spot with him and Pac & Rey Fenix vs. D3 & John Skyler: 975,000 viewers and 428,000 in 18-49
> Q3: Chris Jericho/MJF press conference with the Young Bucks attack and the Atsushi Onita explosive barbed wire video: 976,000 viewers and 454,000 in 18-49
> Q4: JE vs FTR and Tully: 911,000 viewers and 416,000 in 18-49
> Q5: Paul Wight interview, the women’s tournament video and the first half of Nyla Rose vs. Ryo Mizunami: 903,000 viewers and 444,000 in 18-49
> Q6: End of Rose vs. Mizunami, and the Sting & Darby Allin vs. Team Taz segment. 881,000 viewers and 411,000 in 18-49
> Q7: Caster vs 10: 836,000 viewers and 400,000 in 18-49
> Q8: Hangman/Silver vs Hardy/Quen: 853,000 viewers and 398,000 in 18-49


So a slow bleed out with the Shaq match itself already losing a bunch of viewers. FTR with another performance to lock them in as the biggest bust singing after Matt Hardy


----------



## Pippen94

tower_ said:


> So a slow bleed out with the Shaq match itself already losing a bunch of viewers. FTR with another performance to lock them in as the biggest bust singing after Matt Hardy


Shaq's demo rating wasn't much different to rest of show. A lot of the viewers he attracted were 50+.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Shaq draws for sure, but viewership heavily dropped after his segment. They can't keep him around forever, they need to make the most of him to try and create some new eyes, but along with Shaq drawing eyes they need to improve their storytelling in order to encourage new fans to stick around.


----------



## Pippen94

Here's breakdown showing Shaq didn't bring in any extra viewers in demo

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1368030637194674177


----------



## CM Buck

Pippen94 said:


> Here's breakdown showing Shaq didn't bring in any extra viewers in demo
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1368030637194674177


So the shaq experiment didn't have the desired result?


----------



## Pippen94

Two Sheds said:


> You have not countered anything. You have written words responding to my words. Your sentences are just mostly incomprehensible. It is not my fault your grammar sucks, but it does, and everyone here knows it does.
> 
> I agree AEW should not replicate WWE, but that is what they are doing. My point is people here easily point out when WWE does dumb stuff, but when people point out the same stuff when AEW does it they are called haters by the pearl clenchers.
> 
> If you want goofs like Trashidy to be featured and more wedding segments, why would you just not be a long time WWE fan? That is Vince 101 booking.
> 
> Nah, most people on here know that I just hate dumb stuff. What I want most is a company to actually compete with WWE and cause them to get better as a result like we saw in the 90's. I do not want another clown show.


You've given the company two years maybe you should stop watching?!

Aew isn't likely to change to what you want mainly because it's 2021 not the 90's.

Of course if you like complaining...


----------



## Pippen94

Firefromthegods said:


> So the shaq experiment didn't have the desired result?


The talent they already have do same number. They should get behind them


----------



## Claro De Luna

Firefromthegods said:


> So the shaq experiment didn't have the desired result?


A spike in ratings or not I enjoy a celebrity or legendary attraction now and again. Look at Impact Wrestling they concentrate efforts on young unknowns but nobody seems to care enough to want to watch. Let TK treat us now and again, hes got the money to do this.


----------



## 3venflow

There's ALWAYS a drop off after Q1 when it's high. A reminder that Darby vs Starks did over a million in Q1 some time back, as an example.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> Okay.. The PPV is just around the corner.
> *I´m taking numbers if anyone care to guess?*
> I´ll make my prediction later, when I can see what people guess (I know, playing it safe)


are we doing US buyrates, right?

the only figure we can possibly get

this is gonna be a big one - papa TK pulled out all the carny promoter stops

135k buys


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> are we doing US buyrates, right?
> 
> the only figure we can possibly get
> 
> this is gonna be a big one - papa TK pulled out all the carny promoter stops
> 
> 135k buys


Yep, it has to be some numbers we can get from a credible source, so US buys is the only thing we can do.
You´re noted for 135K


----------



## omaroo

I would say just for US by around 110,000 buys.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Knowing Shaq, I can almost guarantee that his appearance cost AEW more than everyone that was on NXT, and it did virtually nothing for ratings. 

The peaks are getting lower.


----------



## One Shed

Pippen94 said:


> You've given the company two years maybe you should stop watching?!
> 
> Aew isn't likely to change to what you want mainly because it's 2021 not the 90's.
> 
> Of course if you like complaining...


No, I enjoy debating. I am also not going to say I like things that I do not. You are acting like book and film critics do not exist. If a film you love gets a bad review, do you write a response to that person and say "maybe you should stop watching films!" Of course not (I hope).

But it really does come down to that often on here. None of the facts can be countered and the rest of it is just opinion, so after going back and forth with the super defenders they just tell us to stop watching. I have never been begged to quit consuming a product so much in my life.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> Yep, it has to be some numbers we can get from a credible source, so US buys is the only thing we can do.
> You´re noted for 135K


the prize for the winner should be that their opinion is the most respected for a week


----------



## Brad Boyd

Pippen94 said:


> You've given the company two years maybe you should stop watching?!
> 
> Aew isn't likely to change to what you want mainly because it's 2021 not the 90's.
> 
> Of course if you like complaining...


I'm sure he's gonna take a suggestion from you at this point to stop watching? Lmao.


----------



## RapShepard

Buyrate 107k


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the prize for the winner should be that their opinion is the most respected for a week


Nah.. Like I said the other day - You get bragging rights for a week on the Dynamite shows.. But bragging rights until the next PPV for this one is a bit too much imo, so why don´t we just throw in bragging rights until the Dynamite AFTER the fallout Dynamite show? That gives whomever wins 1½ week or so.

We don´t want the prize to be something that can stir up a shitstorm from anyone.


----------



## yeahright2

Okay.. I´m gonna go on record:
Buyrate 93K

(I think some will NOT buy it because of the main event)


----------



## Erik.

Definitely over 100k.


----------



## Klitschko

Buyrate 130k


They usually get 100-120ish so with the main event, Sting, and the new wrestler debut in the show, I'm guessing it will be a bit higher.


----------



## Pippen94

Buyrate won't be known for a awhile plus it's just an estimate. 
Meltzer's numbers differ to Brandon Thurston


----------



## Prosper

My Buy rate guess is 135K


----------



## TKO Wrestling

140k. Khan did a great job hyping this thing.


----------



## yeahright2

Erik. said:


> Definitely over 100k.


Care to make an exact guess? I think a lot of people say "over 100K" so exact numbers is preferred
Should be mandatory if you want to play the game, now that I think of it


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Is the ususal buy rate of 100-110k US only?


----------



## yeahright2

Pippen94 said:


> Buyrate won't be known for a awhile plus it's just an estimate.
> Meltzer's numbers differ to Brandon Thurston


We´ll just have to pick one of them. Personally I don´t trust Meltzer to NOT inflate the numbers a little, but if that´s who the majority trusts,we´ll go with him.. It´s just a game, so it´s not that important 
And if it takes a while to get those numbers, the bragging rights will just start from when the numbers are made available.

.. Who puts buyrate numbers on Wikipedia, does anyone know that?


----------



## Prized Fighter

Buyrate: 105k
It could be higher, but it being on a Sunday hurts. I also think that even with the speculation on who debuts, most people are convinced it is Christian or Angle. I don't see people putting down 50 bucks to see those guys sign a contract. If the perception was that Brock, Cena or Batista was showing up a I do think the buyrate would be clear 130k.


----------



## Pippen94

yeahright2 said:


> We´ll just have to pick one of them. Personally I don´t trust Meltzer to NOT inflate the numbers a little, but if that´s who the majority trusts,we´ll go with him.. It´s just a game, so it´s not that important
> And if it takes a while to get those numbers, the bragging rights will just start from when the numbers are made available.
> 
> .. Who puts buyrate numbers on Wikipedia, does anyone know that?


You're not going to get precise figure but just estimate. Ppv numbers are never officially released.


----------



## yeahright2

Pippen94 said:


> You're not going to get precise figure but just estimate. Ppv numbers are never officially released.


I know... That´s not gonna prevent us from guessing, does it?


----------



## Pippen94

yeahright2 said:


> I know... That´s not gonna prevent us from guessing, does it?


Guess it doesn't stop you from wasting your time


----------



## yeahright2

Pippen94 said:


> Guess it doesn't stop you from wasting your time


Seems to me you´re the one wasting time by telling me how the buyrates from Meltzer or Thurston won´t be the same, and how they´re just estimates. If you don´t want to play the game, why waste time telling me that stuff? Or are you mad because *I *came within 10K of the Dynamite ratings while you overshot by almost 100K? 
(I told everyone that whomever won got bragging rights for a week! LOL)


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

107k put me down for it


----------



## yeahright2

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> 107k put me down for it


Noted.. So far I´m the only one under 100K. But I stand by my pick


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

yeahright2 said:


> Noted.. So far I´m the only one under 100K. But I stand by my pick


I wouldn't be shocked if it did below 100k, but I feel they've done enough to JUST get over it.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Pentagon Senior said:


> Is the ususal buy rate of 100-110k US only?


Those are the worldwide number which is what Meltzer reports to inflate numbers and compare favourably to domestic only numbers of years gone by from other companies.

It’s stupid to guess as Meltzer can’t be trusted, it’s not like the TV ratings where there is a credible source.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> Noted.. So far I´m the only one under 100K. But I stand by my pick


its a brave pick

they've never done under 100k except the first one I think

then you have Sting's first match, the big signing (2 maybe), and the Barbwire deathmatch - where we know the unsanctioned match didn't turn anybody away

i recon there is no way it is under 100k


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> its a brave pick
> 
> they've never done under 100k except the first one I think
> 
> then you have Sting's first match, the big signing (2 maybe), and the Barbwire deathmatch - where we know the unsanctioned match didn't turn anybody away
> 
> i recon there is no way it is under 100k


Well, if I´m wrong, I can live with that.
We don´t actually know if the deathmatch turns anybody away.. It might not turn anybody on this forum away, but let´s be honest, we´re a small representative of the usual 100K buys, and fans here is probably more hardcore AEW fans (not fans of hardcore matches, but more loyal to AEW) than the average person who watches AEW.. That´s my guess anyway.


----------



## validreasoning

NathanMayberry said:


> Knowing Shaq, I can almost guarantee that his appearance cost AEW more than everyone that was on NXT, and it did virtually nothing for ratings.
> 
> The peaks are getting lower.


1.565m combined last week and 1.626m this.

I am shocked Shaq wrestling on free tv only added 60k viewers.


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> Is the ususal buy rate of 100-110k US only?


No, they’re the worldwide numbers. About two-thirds of that is the US buyrate.


----------



## Pippen94

Big google search numbers;




__





Google Trends







trends.google.com





Looks promising for ppv buys


----------



## The Wood

You’d probably want to hope that not many people did actually pay for that PPV. Leaves more ground un-scorched.


----------



## yeahright2

Okay.. I´m taking ratings predictions for AEW Dynamite tomorrow.
I´m guessing there´s gonna be a bit of a buzz because of the botched ending, so I´m going with 895K views.


----------



## DammitChrist

I’ll go with 910 K viewers for tomorrow’s Dynamite episode.

That’s a fairly realistic and optimistic number


----------



## yeahright2

DammitChrist said:


> I’ll go with 910 K viewers for tomorrow’s Dynamite episode.
> 
> That’s a fairly realistic and optimistic number


Yep. As you can see, I´m close to that. One way or another, people is going to want to see the aftermath of that dud.. And it helps that Christian is gonna be there.


----------



## sim8

yeahright2 said:


> Okay.. I´m taking ratings predictions for AEW Dynamite tomorrow.
> I´m guessing there´s gonna be a bit of a buzz because of the botched ending, so I´m going with 895K views.


Fuck it. 1,000,040 haha


----------



## rbl85

validreasoning said:


> 1.565m combined last week and 1.626m this.
> 
> I am shocked Shaq wrestling on free tv only added 60k viewers.


The thing is the peoples who were only interested with Shaq match left right after the match ended.

Also apparently NXT might not move because the NHL will be on ESPN


----------



## Chan Hung

So Folks, i just stayed up doing some math for 1 hour. Wanted to see what you all thought of this? Discuss...

*I was very curious of what the OVERALL AVERAGE was of both NXT and AEW up until now. SO i looked at the stats from both AEW and NXT from 10-2-2019 until 3-3-2021. I literally added each column from both AEW and NXT.*

I used this site to help me with the numbers:





Wednesday Night Wars - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





*And here are the results:

AEW *had 72 weeks that were divided by a total of 56,896,000 and the average for AEW was: *790,222 average

NXT* had 73 weeks that were divided by 52,836,000 and the average for NXT was: 723,780.821918 so *723,781 average

Therefore, there was only a 66,641 difference between AEW and NXT if you add and divide all the shows. I was expecting a lot more of a lead from AEW, but nope. 

I also will include screenshots of some math i did. *


----------



## The Wood

That’s interesting, but not surprising. Good on you for doing the maths. The idea that AEW was/is “killing” NXT is obvious bullshit.


----------



## Chan Hung

The Wood said:


> That’s interesting, but not surprising. Good on you for doing the maths. The idea that AEW was/is “killing” NXT is obvious bullshit.


Yes, anyone here can feel free to challenge the math and input screenshots too. I did it to see for myself since i couldnt find anything on google. Long story short, while AEW was obviously going to win this, it was indeed way closer in the end that i thought.


----------



## Pippen94

Chan Hung said:


> So Folks, i just stayed up doing some math for 1 hour. Wanted to see what you all thought of this? Discuss...
> 
> *I was very curious of what the OVERALL AVERAGE was of both NXT and AEW up until now. SO i looked at the stats from both AEW and NXT from 10-2-2019 until 3-3-2021. I literally added each column from both AEW and NXT.*
> 
> I used this site to help me with the numbers:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wednesday Night Wars - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *And here are the results:
> 
> AEW *had 72 weeks that were divided by a total of 56,896,000 and the average for AEW was: *790,222 average
> 
> NXT* had 73 weeks that were divided by 52,836,000 and the average for NXT was: 723,780.821918 so *723,781 average
> 
> Therefore, there was only a 66,641 difference between AEW and NXT if you add and divide all the shows. I was expecting a lot more of a lead from AEW, but nope.
> 
> I also will include screenshots of some math i did. *
> 
> View attachment 98416
> View attachment 98417
> View attachment 98418
> View attachment 98419


Total viewership means jack shit. 
In demo aew is 68 to 1.


----------



## Chan Hung

Pippen94 said:


> Total viewership means jack shit.
> In demo aew is 68 to 1.


I understand demo is important, etc...but i wanted to target overall total viewership, just saying. I think that is also somewhat important. The key in 2021 will be, is AEW growing the overall viewership along with that demo that you mention, or are they staying lukewarm, same as always?


----------



## Pippen94

Chan Hung said:


> I understand demo is important, etc...but i wanted to target overall total viewership, just saying. I think that is also somewhat important.


Goal of both shows is to target younger viewers. Overall in viewership both shows rank outside of top 50 - wouldn't be on air if that number matter.
Aew has crushed in this department & of late usually doing double the demo.

68-1


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> Total viewership means jack shit.
> In demo aew is 68 to 1.


Not true. Cable is archaic for reaching younger viewers. Even Prosper confirmed this. Most advertising companies will target “young people” through digital media. Younger fans used to be targeted because of disposable income. Economic circumstances have shifted since those days.

In addition to the myth of the demo, the voodoo surrounding it is immeasurable. How valuable are the 18-49 who watch AEW? Are they all white and 48 and virginal? What more can you tell us about that demo in 2019-2021? I’ve explained why other demos are now more interesting and specific to advertisers, and no one has been able to refute me. Because it’s common fucking sense.


----------



## KrysRaw1

Pippen94 said:


> Total viewership means jack shit.
> In demo aew is 68 to 1.


This is an incorrect fallacy


----------



## La Parka

Ez


yeahright2 said:


> Okay.. I´m taking ratings predictions for AEW Dynamite tomorrow.
> I´m guessing there´s gonna be a bit of a buzz because of the botched ending, so I´m going with 895K views.


850k


----------



## Pippen94

KrysRaw1 said:


> This is an incorrect fallacy


You've misspelled it's a fact


----------



## El Hammerstone

Pippen94 said:


> You're misspelled it's a fact


You*


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> You've misspelled it's a fact


If it’s a fact, can you provide a source? Who still talks about RATINGS in 2021, let alone the key demo? Other than wrestling fans who still consider it a power level for some reason.


----------



## sim8

The Wood said:


> If it’s a fact, can you provide a source? Who still talks about RATINGS in 2021, let alone the key demo? Other than wrestling fans who still consider it a power level for some reason.











‘Game Of Thrones’ Battle Of Winterfell Hits All-Time Series & HBO Viewership High – Update


SPOILER ALERT: This article contains details of the third episode of Game of Thrones’ Season 8 that aired April 28. UPDATED, 8:34 AM: The linear numbers for Games of Thrones’ hand-to-hand- a…




deadline.com





Deadline were sure to highlight key demo in an article about Game Of Thrones.


----------



## The Wood

sim8 said:


> ‘Game Of Thrones’ Battle Of Winterfell Hits All-Time Series & HBO Viewership High – Update
> 
> 
> SPOILER ALERT: This article contains details of the third episode of Game of Thrones’ Season 8 that aired April 28. UPDATED, 8:34 AM: The linear numbers for Games of Thrones’ hand-to-hand- a…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> deadline.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deadline were sure to highlight key demo in an article about Game Of Thrones.


What is Deadline? Sounds like a gossip rag. What they emphasise first is overall viewership, in a fluff article _about_ ratings. The 18-49 demo comes up in the 7th paragraph.

Can someone find me an accredited, academic, peer-reviewed piece that demonstrates the relevancy of the “key demo” on cable to advertisers in the recent past. Not something from an online puff piece. By the way, the second paragraph ends with the line “a win is still a win not matter how close.”

Why do people always find me “sources” with spelling mistakes and where the content is obviously so unimportant the editor clearly does not give a fuck to even read it? It kind of dismantles the point attempting to be made, I’d think.


----------



## VIP86

The Wood said:


> What is Deadline? Sounds like a gossip rag. What they emphasise first is overall viewership, in a fluff article _about_ ratings. The 18-49 demo comes up in the 7th paragraph.
> 
> Can someone find me an accredited, academic, peer-reviewed piece that demonstrates the relevancy of the “key demo” on cable to advertisers in the recent past. Not something from an online puff piece. By the way, the second paragraph ends with the line “a win is still a win not matter how close.”
> 
> Why do people always find me “sources” with spelling mistakes and where the content is obviously so unimportant the editor clearly does not give a fuck to even read it? It kind of dismantles the point attempting to be made, I’d think.


why do you bother arguing with fanboys ?
you'll have a better chance convincing a bear that he's actually a horse than convincing a fanboy to stop kissing the company's ass
whether it's AEW, WWE, or any other company, fanboys are all the same


----------



## IronMan8

Chan Hung said:


> So Folks, i just stayed up doing some math for 1 hour. Wanted to see what you all thought of this? Discuss...
> 
> *I was very curious of what the OVERALL AVERAGE was of both NXT and AEW up until now. SO i looked at the stats from both AEW and NXT from 10-2-2019 until 3-3-2021. I literally added each column from both AEW and NXT.*
> 
> I used this site to help me with the numbers:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wednesday Night Wars - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *And here are the results:
> 
> AEW *had 72 weeks that were divided by a total of 56,896,000 and the average for AEW was: *790,222 average
> 
> NXT* had 73 weeks that were divided by 52,836,000 and the average for NXT was: 723,780.821918 so *723,781 average
> 
> Therefore, there was only a 66,641 difference between AEW and NXT if you add and divide all the shows. I was expecting a lot more of a lead from AEW, but nope.
> 
> I also will include screenshots of some math i did. *
> 
> View attachment 98416
> View attachment 98417
> View attachment 98418
> View attachment 98419


Thanks for doing that. I was expecting AEW to lead by more.

I guess it’s a 10% larger TV viewing audience on average.


----------



## The Wood

VIP86 said:


> why do you bother arguing with fanboys ?
> you'll have a better chance convincing a bear that he's actually a horse than convincing a fanboy to stop kissing the company's ass
> whether it's AEW, WWE, or any other company, fanboys are all the same


You’re right about this. I forget that sometimes and expect logic and reason to win out. It’s a way I am optimistic.


----------



## Pippen94

IronMan8 said:


> Thanks for doing that. I was expecting AEW to lead by more.
> 
> I guess it’s a 10% larger TV viewing audience on average.


If you look at 50+ only wwe Wednesday smashes it there


----------



## The Wood

Everyone knows that the baby boomers and Gen-Xer’s don’t have any money.


----------



## sim8

The Wood said:


> What is Deadline? Sounds like a gossip rag. What they emphasise first is overall viewership, in a fluff article _about_ ratings. The 18-49 demo comes up in the 7th paragraph.
> 
> Can someone find me an accredited, academic, peer-reviewed piece that demonstrates the relevancy of the “key demo” on cable to advertisers in the recent past. Not something from an online puff piece. By the way, the second paragraph ends with the line “a win is still a win not matter how close.”
> 
> Why do people always find me “sources” with spelling mistakes and where the content is obviously so unimportant the editor clearly does not give a fuck to even read it? It kind of dismantles the point attempting to be made, I’d think.


Look, you asked who talks about it. I showed you one source that does talk about it. Now you want someone you deem credible. You will never be satisfied because it is easy to poke holes in any source we can provide due to the limitations of us being forum posters. 

However ratings and key demos are good talking points and isnt that all we do on a forum. Talk. 

Are key demos and ratings in the age of technology the end all, be all. No. But are they important indicators of how well a show is doing. Absolutely.

We are looking at the key demo and ratings of two shows on tv on the same day on the same time. So all external factors such as news, cord cutting etc will have the same effect on both Dynamite and NXT so they become irrelevant when comparing the two shows.

At the end of the day, nobody here is an expert but it's fun to talk about and debate with the limited information we are privvy to. Besides some people do use key demos and ratings to make some really good points. You cannot negate that, simply because you just dont agree with assumptions. Because at the end of the day, half of what is said on this forum is based on assumptions. We dont know Tony Khan or Triple h or Vince McMahon personally. Nor do we know any tv exec personally. 

Just have fun with it mate.


----------



## sim8

VIP86 said:


> why do you bother arguing with fanboys ?
> you'll have a better chance convincing a bear that he's actually a horse than convincing a fanboy to stop kissing the company's ass
> whether it's AEW, WWE, or any other company, fanboys are all the same


I love how you use the term fanboy in a derogatory way. Like it's a bad thing to be a fan of something. I'm passionate about wrestling and AEW is something that I find enjoyment in 90% of the time. What is life without passion.


----------



## sim8

The Wood said:


> You’re right about this. I forget that sometimes and expect logic and reason to win out. It’s a way I am optimistic.


I wish to never see a cynical Wood then


----------



## .christopher.

@The Wood smashing it as usual in here I see. Great posts.


----------



## VIP86

sim8 said:


> I love how you use the term fanboy in a derogatory way. Like it's a bad thing to be a fan of something. I'm passionate about wrestling and AEW is something that I find enjoyment in 90% of the time. What is life without passion.


not a bad thing to be a fan of something
but a bad thing to defend something blindly

plus, it wasn't derogatory, it's an accurate description
a fanboy is someone who is obsessive about something
in this thread, fanboys are obsessive about defending the company no matter if it's right or wrong


----------



## The Wood

sim8 said:


> Look, you asked who talks about it. I showed you one source that does talk about it. Now you want someone you deem credible. You will never be satisfied because it is easy to poke holes in any source we can provide due to the limitations of us being forum posters.
> 
> However ratings and key demos are good talking points and isnt that all we do on a forum. Talk.
> 
> Are key demos and ratings in the age of technology the end all, be all. No. But are they important indicators of how well a show is doing. Absolutely.
> 
> We are looking at the key demo and ratings of two shows on tv on the same day on the same time. So all external factors such as news, cord cutting etc will have the same effect on both Dynamite and NXT so they become irrelevant when comparing the two shows.
> 
> At the end of the day, nobody here is an expert but it's fun to talk about and debate with the limited information we are privvy to. Besides some people do use key demos and ratings to make some really good points. You cannot negate that, simply because you just dont agree with assumptions. Because at the end of the day, half of what is said on this forum is based on assumptions. We dont know Tony Khan or Triple h or Vince McMahon personally. Nor do we know any tv exec personally.
> 
> Just have fun with it mate.


You’ve taken my original post too literally. I should have been more clear: Who that is important gives a shit? To use an analogy: I might ask “Who cares what a woman chooses to wear?” but then someone could link TMZ writing something about the red carpet. Okay, but that fashion bullshit is what those fashion fuckers do. A TV website giving outside commentary on TV viewership is going to do the same. But that doesn’t impress me as a serious talking point.

Besides (and this isn’t your fault if you’re just trying to have a discussion and be devil’s advocate or whatever), I wasn’t that impressed with the article.

I’ll tell you what: If someone can find me a credible piece talking about how the Nielsen key demo is still the most pressing thing to advertisers, I will admit I was wrong. But I don’t think it’s there as much as people think it is. Advertisers can make way more nuanced decisions now.

AEW and NXT are almost under the same factors. But NXT also has a next day replay on a streaming service a lot of wrestling fans have — the WWE Network. I bet that is where a lot of those younger viewers are. Or on DVR.

I have a lot of fun discussing these things. Thanks for participating. But yeah, a light entertainment rag isn’t exactly evidence that the importance of these numbers isn’t inflated, or even created, by people outside the relevant industries to give them something to talk aboit



sim8 said:


> I love how you use the term fanboy in a derogatory way. Like it's a bad thing to be a fan of something. I'm passionate about wrestling and AEW is something that I find enjoyment in 90% of the time. What is life without passion.


Hey, please do discuss wrestling if you love it. I’m in the same boat. There’s a difference between a fan and a fanboy though.


----------



## sim8

VIP86 said:


> not a bad thing to be a fan of something
> but a bad thing to defend something blindly
> 
> plus, it wasn't derogatory, it's an accurate description
> a fanboy is someone who is obsessive about something
> in this thread, fanboys are obsessive about defending the company no matter if it's right or wrong


In that case it's not fair to call me a fanboy then. I dont like everything AEW does and I'm sure I'm on record for that


----------



## sim8

The Wood said:


> You’ve taken my original post too literally. I should have been more clear: Who that is important gives a shit? To use an analogy: I might ask “Who cares what a woman chooses to wear?” but then someone could link TMZ writing something about the red carpet. Okay, but that fashion bullshit is what those fashion fuckers do. A TV website giving outside commentary on TV viewership is going to do the same. But that doesn’t impress me as a serious talking point.
> 
> Besides (and this isn’t your fault if you’re just trying to have a discussion and be devil’s advocate or whatever), I wasn’t that impressed with the article.
> 
> I’ll tell you what: If someone can find me a credible piece talking about how the Nielsen key demo is still the most pressing thing to advertisers, I will admit I was wrong. But I don’t think it’s there as much as people think it is. Advertisers can make way more nuanced decisions now.
> 
> AEW and NXT are almost under the same factors. But NXT also has a next day replay on a streaming service a lot of wrestling fans have — the WWE Network. I bet that is where a lot of those younger viewers are. Or on DVR.
> 
> I have a lot of fun discussing these things. Thanks for participating. But yeah, a light entertainment rag isn’t exactly evidence that the importance of these numbers isn’t inflated, or even created, by people outside the relevant industries to give them something to talk aboit
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, please do discuss wrestling if you love it. I’m in the same boat. There’s a difference between a fan and a fanboy though.


But that's the thing though. We have limited resources as we are nothing but fans and forum posters so it will be hard to get a reputable source to your satisfaction. However all it takes is a Google 'is 18-49 demographic the most important' and you get a shit load of diffetent websites explaining why that is. Some websites even I wouldn't accept but there are plenty that should be acceptable. 

However, both Tony and Cody have been on record about how important they find this demo. Surely that is reason enough to accept it as an important indicator. When the owner is saying it is important to him then surely that is an indicator we should pay attention.

At the end of the day, 99% of posts here are opinion based and that's really what I come here for. I want to know what everyone thinks, rather than everyone telling everyone what they 'know'. Its a lot healthier that way too


----------



## The Wood

sim8 said:


> But that's the thing though. We have limited resources as we are nothing but fans and forum posters so it will be hard to get a reputable source to your satisfaction. However all it takes is a Google 'is 18-49 demographic the most important' and you get a shit load of diffetent websites explaining why that is. Some websites even I wouldn't accept but there are plenty that should be acceptable.
> 
> However, both Tony and Cody have been on record about how important they find this demo. Surely that is reason enough to accept it as an important indicator. When the owner is saying it is important to him then surely that is an indicator we should pay attention.
> 
> At the end of the day, 99% of posts here are opinion based and that's really what I come here for. I want to know what everyone thinks, rather than everyone telling everyone what they 'know'. Its a lot healthier that way too


I’ve done that search and I’ve found nothing from the TV industry or advertisers. I found a Wiki article once which also states something like “for other programs other demographics might be more important.”

I don’t trust Cody nor Tony on this at all.


----------



## RapShepard

Prediction for tonight 863k-1.1 million . 32 demo


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Prediction 875k 0.36 demo


----------



## sim8

The Wood said:


> I’ve done that search and I’ve found nothing from the TV industry or advertisers. I found a Wiki article once which also states something like “for other programs other demographics might be more important.”
> 
> I don’t trust Cody nor Tony on this at all.


That's what I said would happen though. Because why would anyone important enough and inside spend time explaining to common folks like us what they look at.

You dont trust Cody or Tony? Ok. However, this is not a matter of trust. It is about judging them by the standard they set. They say they see key demo as important. Well okay then. If that demo drops considerably then that is a sign AEW is not doing well by their own standard.


----------



## sim8

Anybody watch the impact ad this week? Tony bragging about the buyrate for Revolution. I wonder if it is really worth bragging about or is it just another 'Christian'. Good but nothing worth hyping


----------



## yeahright2

RapShepard said:


> Prediction for tonight 863k-1.1 million . 32 demo


That´s a mighty big gap..You´re almost guaranteed to be correct, but not much of a game if you cover all bases like that 
Dare to make an exact guess?


----------



## RapShepard

yeahright2 said:


> That´s a mighty big gap..You´re almost guaranteed to be correct, but not much of a game if you cover all bases like that
> Dare to make an exact guess?


If I'm going exact..... 940k .31


----------



## Prosper

My guess is 920K overall, 0.37 demo


----------



## Dr. Middy

915k and a .33

I assume they actually will get interest from the botch ending from those who might be curious how they address it.


----------



## French Connection

The Wood said:


> I’ve done that search and I’ve found nothing from the TV industry or advertisers. I found a Wiki article once which also states something like “for other programs other demographics might be more important.”
> 
> I don’t trust Cody nor Tony on this at all.



I am sure if you go ahead with your research you will find it out. 
I don't want to sound mysoginist, but the best demographic ever is the women between 25-45 because they are considered to manage 80% of the consumer purchasing. 
It is easy to sell commercial slots with that. But both NXT and AEW are not that good with that demo.


----------



## VIP86

sim8 said:


> In that case it's not fair to call me a fanboy then. I dont like everything AEW does and I'm sure I'm on record for that


why do you think it was directed at you specifically ?
because it wasn't
you probably thought i was talking about you specifically because i replied to a post by the wood that involved you ?
if that's the case, then you should know that i was talking generally with the wood about the subject


----------



## sim8

VIP86 said:


> why do you think it was directed at you specifically ?
> because it wasn't
> you probably thought i was talking about you specifically because i replied to a post by the wood that involved you ?
> if that's the case, then you should know that i was talking generally with the wood about the subject


So you commented on a response to me with a generalisation of other people? Thank you for your input then, I guess


----------



## VIP86

sim8 said:


> So you commented on a response to me with a generalisation of other people? Thank you for your input then, I guess


don't mention it, it's my pleasure


----------



## The Wood

sim8 said:


> That's what I said would happen though. Because why would anyone important enough and inside spend time explaining to common folks like us what they look at.
> 
> You dont trust Cody or Tony? Ok. However, this is not a matter of trust. It is about judging them by the standard they set. They say they see key demo as important. Well okay then. If that demo drops considerably then that is a sign AEW is not doing well by their own standard.


People need to educate? Like, why wouldn’t there be anything out there? If something is true, there are usually resources to back it up.

Cody and TK don’t get to set their own metric for success. It’s Observer spin they are taking to run with it. Of course they deserve to get it rubbed in their faces when they lose that demo for making that rod for their back, but it doesn’t make it any more true or false that the alleged demo is way more insignificant than they are making out. 



French Connection said:


> I am sure if you go ahead with your research you will find it out.
> I don't want to sound mysoginist, but the best demographic ever is the women between 25-45 because they are considered to manage 80% of the consumer purchasing.
> It is easy to sell commercial slots with that. But both NXT and AEW are not that good with that demo.


Excellent fucking post.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Uhmmmm - guessing 910k / 0.36


----------



## Mr316

Prediction: 935k.
People will be curious. It will go down next week.


----------



## Dr. Middy

French Connection said:


> I am sure if you go ahead with your research you will find it out.
> I don't want to sound mysoginist, but the best demographic ever is the women between 25-45 because they are considered to manage 80% of the consumer purchasing.
> It is easy to sell commercial slots with that. But both NXT and AEW are not that good with that demo.


Is that legit, because that's interesting. 

I feel like it's really difficult to really get a large female crowd interested tbf given the type of television wrestling falls under, which is basically a more athletic product with storylines that resemble soap opera type stuff. Most women I'd guess would rather just watch reality shows like The Bachelor, 90 Day Fiancé, Below Deck, and other reality type stuff, or other more dramatized prime time shows like This is Us that don't have the wrestling at all. Given the demographics of wrestling over the last like 10+ years, I don't see anything other than a large drastic change in how wrestling shows are booked and put together that would change from being anything other than just mostly male dominated, although they possibly could attract some of them with a stronger women's division perhaps.


----------



## The Wood

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> Is that legit, because that's interesting.
> 
> I feel like it's really difficult to really get a large female crowd interested tbf given the type of television wrestling falls under, which is basically a more athletic product with storylines that resemble soap opera type stuff. Most women I'd guess would rather just watch reality shows like The Bachelor, 90 Day Fiancé, Below Deck, and other reality type stuff, or other more dramatized prime time shows like This is Us that don't have the wrestling at all. Given the demographics of wrestling over the last like 10+ years, I don't see anything other than a large drastic change in how wrestling shows are booked and put together that would change from being anything other than just mostly male dominated, although they possibly could attract some of them with a stronger women's division perhaps.


I’ve read stuff like this before. Women manage not only their own finances, but sometimes the finances of their partners and dependents.


----------



## Pippen94

.christopher. said:


> @The Wood smashing it as usual in here I see. Great posts.


He predicted wwe Wednesday would be winning every week by wrestlemania last year. 
Overall score is* 68 to 1*. Shows what he knows


----------



## .christopher.

Pippen94 said:


> He predicted wwe Wednesday would be winning every week by wrestlemania last year.
> Overall score is* 68 to 1*. Shows what he knows


The fact that WWEs C show was as competitive as they were week to week is nothing to brag about. I believe WWE promoted some of NXTs bigger talents whilst AEW spent millions on Sting, Miro, FTR, etc, too.I

They should be smashing NXT by more than a hundred thousand or so.


----------



## One Shed

I think people will tune in to see the fallout from the train wreck popcorn fart. 900k.


----------



## yeahright2

Two Sheds said:


> I think people will tune in to see the fallout from the train wreck popcorn fart. 900k.


Most people seems to think they´ll do somewhere around 900K on this episode.


----------



## El Hammerstone

I'll predict they fall just short of the 900K benchmark and say 898K


----------



## French Connection

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> Is that legit, because that's interesting.
> 
> I feel like it's really difficult to really get a large female crowd interested tbf given the type of television wrestling falls under, which is basically a more athletic product with storylines that resemble soap opera type stuff. Most women I'd guess would rather just watch reality shows like The Bachelor, 90 Day Fiancé, Below Deck, and other reality type stuff, or other more dramatized prime time shows like This is Us that don't have the wrestling at all. Given the demographics of wrestling over the last like 10+ years, I don't see anything other than a large drastic change in how wrestling shows are booked and put together that would change from being anything other than just mostly male dominated, although they possibly could attract some of them with a stronger women's division perhaps.


I do not say my comment is legit. 

I worked a little bit into this business, and the key to have a good show, was not to get the quality but the key viewers. 
Why? Because the TV channel can increase and spread their commercial slots to a "better audience". 
I don't say it is mathematics, it is just an interpretation from sociologic studies.

But we are reaching the big data era (for the good or bad), and all these Nielsen ratings will be outdated very soon.
I remember Twitter willing to change the business 5 years ago thanks to the hashtag. Now we have surveys and stuffs, if you can make any money out of it, it gonna be our new measure...


----------



## Pippen94

Big jump in twitter for wrestling this week;








United States • Now • Twitter Trending Hashtags and Topics


HOT RIGHT NOW: Ian Book, #WWERAW, Dolphins, Saints, #FinsUp... Explore all top Twitter trends and popular hashtags today United States




getdaytrends.com


----------



## The Wood

Pippen94 said:


> He predicted wwe Wednesday would be winning every week by wrestlemania last year.
> Overall score is* 68 to 1*. Shows what he knows


Pip’s been banned, but I will address his points for people reading this: Yes, I did predict that NXT would be beating AEW in viewership by around WrestleMania time last year. I thought the debut of Scarlett would coincide with that. I was wrong and I believe NXT has dropped the ball too. That being said, I was never going by key demo, so this is still a bad post.


----------



## VIP86

The Wood said:


> Pip’s been banned, but I will address his points for people reading this: Yes, I did predict that NXT would be beating AEW in viewership by around WrestleMania time last year. I thought the debut of Scarlett would coincide with that. I was wrong and I believe NXT has dropped the ball too. That being said, I was never going by key demo, so this is still a bad post.


although i agree that this demo talk is just a way for people to feel good about AEW

but you're giving WWE too much credit, they are much stupider than you think
they lost more than half their viewers in 3 years
it doesn't matter that NXT is owned by the biggest wrestling company
in WWE's mind NXT is just a wrestling school
hurriedly put on TV to fuck with a new company
the amount of money they are making now is only because of the name recognition and the amount of produced content


----------



## Aedubya

0.95


----------



## The Wood

VIP86 said:


> although i agree that this demo talk is just a way for people to feel good about AEW
> 
> but you're giving WWE too much credit, they are much stupider than you think
> they lost more than half their viewers in 3 years
> it doesn't matter that NXT is owned by the biggest wrestling company
> in WWE's mind NXT is just a wrestling school
> hurriedly put on TV to fuck with a new company
> the amount of money they are making now is only because of the name recognition and the amount of produced content


Fair points. All technically true. I think when it comes to conflict they are a lot more savvy though. The only thing Vince lets come between him and his money is his own product.


----------



## Erik.

Let's have at a look at the previous ratings before and after an AEW PPV.

*2019
Full Gear - *Week before (822,000) - Week after (957,000)

*2020
Revolution* - Week before (865,000) - Week after (906,000)
*Double or Nothing *- Week before (701,000) - Week after (827,000)
*All Out - *Week before (928,000) - Week after (1,016,000) 
*Full Gear - *Week before (717,000) - Week after (764,000)

Though worth noting that All Out weeks were unopposed as NXT was broadcast on Tuesdays instead.

However, ratings ALWAYS go up for the post PPV show. On average by about 87,400 viewers.

The rating last week was 934,000 - so based on average and history, they SHOULD be looking to get around 1,021,400 for last nights show. However that would make it their highest rated show since their second ever episode on the 9th October 2019 and I can't see that happening. The average is skewed slightly by the unopposed two weeks during All Out 2020.

But I DO think they should be looking to get either similar to last week or higher. Simply because they have a proven track record of a post PPV bump - therefore I will go with 960k. But I really really hope they break a million. It was a good show and they've been on a great run to deserve it.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Pentagon Senior said:


> Prediction 875k 0.36 demo


Ah shit, think I was high when I posted this 🤯 (forgot they did 933 last week) 

I'd like to change to 920k 0.35 demo if I may @yeahright2


----------



## yeahright2

Pentagon Senior said:


> Ah shit, think I was high when I posted this 🤯 (forgot they did 933 last week)
> 
> I'd like to change to 920k 0.35 demo if I may @yeahright2


It´s a bit unfair to predict ratings after the show has aired, but if nobody objects, I´ll allow it


----------



## Pentagon Senior

yeahright2 said:


> It´s a bit unfair to predict ratings after the show has aired, but if nobody objects, I´ll allow it


Ooof tough task master haha. I did wonder if that was part of the game... 

No worries if not I'll just get my head straight for next week 😁


----------



## yeahright2

Pentagon Senior said:


> Ooof tough task master haha. I did wonder if that was part of the game...
> 
> No worries if not I'll just get my head straight for next week 😁


It´s a dirty job, but somebody has to do it! LOL


----------



## TKO Wrestling

.34 is my prediction.


----------



## Joe Gill

I have a feeling it will be a big rating.... they will crack 1 million


----------



## The Wood

I’ll go with 891k, although I’m not going to be surprised if they do a car crash rating.


----------



## Shock Street

I always bet too high so I'm saying 780k


----------



## The Wood

Shock Street said:


> I always bet too high so I'm saying 780k


I also think I bet too high. 891k means that NXT would probably max out at 709k, and didn’t they have a pretty hyped show? Hmm. I guess I’ll stick with it.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW: 743,000 (0.32, #4 on cable)

NXT: 691,000 (0.18, #25 on cable)


----------



## Danielallen1410

Ouch pretty awful. Shame as it was a great show as was last weeks


----------



## Erik.

That's disappointing.

First time in their history they haven't had a PPV bump.

Shame, as it was a great show.


----------



## Shock Street

3venflow said:


> AEW: 743,000 (0.32, #4 on cable)
> 
> NXT: 691,000 (0.18, #25 on cable)


How the FUCK am I always too high even when I try to be a dick


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Yup that total number is pretty low! 

Demo and position still good but definitely disappointing overall


----------



## RainmakerV2

Thats a rough number coming off a PPV with a controversial ending.

As if you needed more proof no one gives a fuck about Christian Cage in 2021.


----------



## Shock Street

RainmakerV2 said:


> Thats a rough number coming off a PPV with a controversial ending.
> 
> As if you needed more proof no one gives a fuck about Christian Cage in 2021.


Turns out saying you're going to blow something up and then just shooting firecrackers has repurcussions


----------



## 3venflow

A couple of takeaways:

- AEW strong with males (0.45, 18-49) again, but weak with females (0.19, 18-49). After last week's big bump in the over 50's for Shaq, that demo dropped to 0.25. Only South Park, Challenge and Real Housewives of NJ bettered them in 18-49 overall and only South Park in men's 18-49.

- NXT with the big Balor vs. Cole main event did pretty well in the 18-49 males (0.23, 18-49), but like AEW not so much interest from the ladies (0.12, 18-49). Their strongest demo was as always the 50+ with a 0.39 demo.

Total viewership for AEW was in line with the Feb 10 and Feb 17 shows, but well down on the strong performing last two weeks.

NXT's was almost identical to last week's, just 1k less.


----------



## Christopher Near

Joe Gill said:


> I have a feeling it will be a big rating.... they will crack 1 million


Guess christian didn't help the ratings


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> AEW: 743,000 (0.32, #4 on cable)
> 
> NXT: 691,000 (0.18, #25 on cable)


Disappointing

no post PPV bump

demo still up there / but overall is not


----------



## RapShepard

That can't really be the number right. Seems hella low even after the PPV controversy.


----------



## Christopher Near

RainmakerV2 said:


> Thats a rough number coming off a PPV with a controversial ending.
> 
> As if you needed more proof no one gives a fuck about Christian Cage in 2021.



People clowned edge for not being a draw guess Christian is right there with him


----------



## One Shed

I am actually surprised it was that low. Usually the rubberneckers will show up when something trends even if it is something bad. And even though I like Christian, he was never a very big draw.


----------



## TD Stinger

Huh, figured the Demo would be about the same but I assumed they would stay somewhere in between like 875k-925k in viewership. Guess not.


----------



## The Wood

Shock Street said:


> How the FUCK am I always too high even when I try to be a dick


Hahaha! I was going to credit you for being way closer!


----------



## Dr. Middy

That's kinda surprising, wonder where some of those viewers went because it's not like NXT did well either. 

That South Park special maybe?


----------



## 3venflow

South Park definitely ate a little into the AEW and NXT audience. I didn't realise it ran directly against them.

It did a killer rating and look at it's 18-49 M demo:


----------



## Geeee

I guess the disappointment of Revolution actually hurt the number. Hopefully, a strong Dynamite will help next week's show


----------



## The Wood

Lesson here might be that shit shows won’t draw you more people in, even to see the fallout. And yes, folks — they can hurt you.

Only 1.43 million watching this Wednesday. What was on the news?


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Disappointing
> 
> no post PPV bump
> 
> demo still up there / but overall is not


For me that show 1 thing :

The overall viewers number depend on the 50+ people, they basically always have the same 18-49 demo but everytime they get a 900+k numbers it come from a 50+ demo being higher than usual.

Last week 50+ 0.38 and this week 0.25.

Now in which quarter did the sound problem occur ? (it's going to see the impact it had or not on the viewership)


----------



## rbl85

Geeee said:


> I guess the disappointment of Revolution actually hurt the number. Hopefully, a strong Dynamite will help next week's show


Then only 50+ people were disappointed because the 18-49 demo was the same than last week (0.32 vs 0.33)

In comparison with last week if something hurted AEW viewers number it was more the news shows


----------



## VIP86

why people are surprised about this ?
these are the normal core viewers numbers for AEW
plus, when you promise people something huge and instead deliver something ordinary
you have to expect a loss of trust and disinterest


----------



## Prosper

Damn pretty disappointing cable number this week. The show was pretty great last night too. That’s a shame. Oh well, on to next week.

Last night’s show should probably create a nice bump going into next weeks show, especially after the great ending.


----------



## validreasoning

VIP86 said:


> why people are surprised about this ?
> these are the normal core viewers numbers for AEW
> plus, when you promise people something huge and instead deliver something ordinary
> you have to expect a loss of trust and disinterest


Well you had massive celebrity involvement last week, a fairly big name signing and controversial ending to ppv so you would expect to retain and maybe grow last week's number.

Truth is fans aren't interested in tuning into weekly tv anymore else you advertise it in advance as a big deal (like last week) and controversy certainly doesn't equal cash in 2021


----------



## rbl85

Now the great news is that next week is probably going to be up


----------



## rbl85

validreasoning said:


> Well you have massive celebrity involvement last week, a fairly big name signing and controversial ending to ppv you would expect to retain and maybe grow last week's number.
> 
> Truth is fans aren't interested in tuning into to weekly tv anymore else you advertise it in advertise a big deal (like last week) and controversy certainly doesn't equal cash in 2021


Now more and more people just watch highlights and only watch the whole thing if it's a special show


----------



## NathanMayberry

This shouldn’t surprise anyone except for the folks that listen to the “expert” here that works in TV


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RapShepard

VIP86 said:


> why people are surprised about this ?
> these are the normal core viewers numbers for AEW
> plus, when you promise people something huge and instead deliver something ordinary
> you have to expect a loss of trust and disinterest


It's just surprising as I'd have thought folk would tune in to see what happens with the clean up.


----------



## The Wood

I think the only reason AEW goes up, beyond something like Shaq getting involved, is honestly because the fans will gather around it when it has a bad week. But that is going to wear thin. The interest in this thing is definitely waning.


----------



## omaroo

Not a good number, shame its fluctuating weekly.

You would think they should get around 800k next week which looks like a good card.


----------



## Chan Hung

Not really a bump from the ppv. The ppv was one of the worst so it is not a shocker i suppose.


----------



## omaroo

The Wood said:


> I think the only reason AEW goes up, beyond something like Shaq getting involved, is honestly because the fans will gather around it when it has a bad week. But that is going to wear thin. The interest in this thing is definitely waning.


Oh yes, AEW will die in 2022 I believe


----------



## rbl85

omaroo said:


> Not a good number, shame its fluctuating weekly.
> 
> You would think they should get around 800k next week which looks like a good card.


It depend on if the "old" people are interested in it


----------



## rbl85

omaroo said:


> Oh yes, AEW will die in 2022 I believe


It was suppose to happen a year ago no ?


----------



## Shock Street

The Wood said:


> Lesson here might be that shit shows won’t draw you more people in, even to see the fallout. And yes, folks — they can hurt you.
> 
> Only 1.43 million watching this Wednesday. What was on the news?


I'm actually interested to see the segment by segment this time, because unlike the news I believe South Park could have taken some viewers away with their special. However, it would have only affected the bottom half of the show. I am curious to see if there's a big drop at 6PM or not.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> For me that show 1 thing :
> 
> The overall viewers number depend on the 50+ people, they basically always have the same 18-49 demo but everytime they get a 900+k numbers it come from a 50+ demo being higher than usual.
> 
> Last week 50+ 0.38 and this week 0.25.
> 
> Now in which quarter did the sound problem occur ? (it's going to see the impact it had or not on the viewership)


4th on the night is nothing to sneeze at

and 0.32 is decent - but i’m hoping for a return to 0.4 at least


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 4th on the night is nothing to sneeze at
> 
> and 0.32 is decent - but i’m hoping for a return to 0.4 at least


When was the 0.4 ?


----------



## El Hammerstone

rbl85 said:


> It was suppose to happen a year ago no ?


Who said that?


----------



## rbl85

Shock Street said:


> I'm actually interested to see the segment by segment this time, because unlike the news I believe South Park could have taken some viewers away with their special. However, it would have only affected the bottom half of the show. I am curious to see if there's a big drop at 6PM or not.


South park would hurt the younger demos right ?

But those demo are pretty much the same than last week, only the 50+ really went down


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> When was the 0.4 ?


i think beginning of the year and a couple times last year?

definitely reached 0.36 - 0.38

i remember a 0.4 though, that didn’t reach 1m overall - which is why it stuck in my mind


----------



## Shock Street

rbl85 said:


> South park would hurt the younger demos right ?
> 
> But those demo are pretty much the same than last week, only the 50+ really went down


Yeah that's a good point, it must have just been the PPV ending (and possibly Christian being overhyped) annoying people then


----------



## Smark1995

It even disappointed a lot of AEW fans. I am a mark for no company right now but always hoping that someone is going to step up and offer wrestling fans something worth watching and holy s**t did AEW just drop the f**king anvil on their own heads with Revolution. For a second I almost felt a little hype thinking maybe they actually got a big name like Punk or Batista to help them get a boost, but when I found out it was Christian I actually laughed. lol

This company is turning out to be as bad as TNA was with their "big reveals" that ended up being total duds. I just don't get how Cody, the Bucks, and even Christian himself did not get in Khan's ear to let him now what a horrible idea over hyping that signing was. They have no excuse for letting him do that. All of them should have known better.


----------



## omaroo

rbl85 said:


> It was suppose to happen a year ago no ?


Who knows mate.

There is always a few saying the end is nigh for AEW.

Even with a lower viewership finishing in the top 4 on the night is pretty good.


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i think beginning of the year and a couple times last year?
> 
> definitely reached 0.36 - 0.38
> 
> i remember a 0.4 though, that didn’t reach 1m overall - which is why it stuck in my mind


Since march last year the biggest demo they did is 0.37


----------



## Alright_Mate

The hardcore stayed, but to not gain new viewers after a PPV is disappointing and not a good sign, not surprised though after the mess they dished out.

This will be a period for AEW to gain trust back, I’ve mentioned consistency so many times, but they definitely need to produce consistency now, or they’ll stay between the 700k-800k mark.

Next weeks card looks like a good start, but they’ll have to constantly back it up, if not then it will just go to show that their booking is incompetent.


----------



## Geeee

Also, a good example of how the number of pages in the Dynamite thread doesn't mean much. One of the biggest threads and a meh viewership number


----------



## qntntgood

The Wood said:


> Lesson here might be that shit shows won’t draw you more people in, even to see the fallout. And yes, folks — they can hurt you.
> 
> Only 1.43 million watching this Wednesday. What was on the news?


Indeed,and having the owner of the promotion act like a complete jack ass on Twitter doesn't help ether.


----------



## rbl85

qntntgood said:


> Indeed,and having the owner of the promotion act like a complete jack ass on Twitter doesn't help ether.


Sure 50+ people are really the type of people to know that Khan was a bad bad man against that poor little girl.....

Seriously....


----------



## TD Stinger

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i think beginning of the year and a couple times last year?
> 
> definitely reached 0.36 - 0.38
> 
> i remember a 0.4 though, that didn’t reach 1m overall - which is why it stuck in my mind


I believe they got in the .4 range for the Winter is Coming show last year. And then also the week after. Now, one show had been promoted for weeks and the other had Sting's first promoted appearance. Point is that for except for special occasions, I expect them to stay in the .31-.33 range.


----------



## qntntgood

Alright_Mate said:


> The hardcore stayed, but to not gain new viewers after a PPV is disappointing and not a good sign, not surprised though after the mess they dished out.
> 
> This will be a period for AEW to gain trust back, I’ve mentioned consistency so many times, but they definitely need to produce consistency now, or they’ll stay between the 700k-800k mark.
> 
> Next weeks card looks like a good stay, but they’ll have to constantly back it up, if not then it will just go to show that their booking is incompetent.


Those people who bought the ppv were pissed,because their intelligent were insulted.and once you've done that you've lost them,so it is going to be an up hill to gain new viewership.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Yeah that wasn´t good. 743 post PPV is not good.


----------



## rbl85

TD Stinger said:


> I believe they got in the .4 range for the Winter is Coming show last year. And then also the week after. Now, one show had been promoted for weeks and the other had Sting's first promoted appearance. Point is that for except for special occasions, I expect them to stay in the .31-.33 range.


Exact i looked too fast they did 0.42 and the week after 0.45


----------



## The XL 2

Yikes. Pro wrestling is dead in America.


----------



## rbl85

qntntgood said:


> Those people who bought the ppv were pissed,because their intelligent were insulted.and once you've done that you've lost them,so it is going to be an up hill to gain new viewership.


I don't think the people who bought the PPV (more or less 100K) are in the 50+ demo XD


----------



## K4L318

The XL 2 said:


> Yikes. Pro wrestling is dead in America.


Too much "Me Too" and make ya smile. Not enough unapologetic stars.


----------



## qntntgood

rbl85 said:


> Sure 50+ people are really the type of people to know that Khan was a bad bad man against that poor little girl.....
> 
> Seriously....


Seriously he is a public figure worth billion's,and he has an image and you are telling the guy who can't take criticism.that didn't hurt him,that's like Vince machon going after jd from NYC or some other critic of his.


----------



## rbl85

qntntgood said:


> Seriously he is a public figure worth billion's,and he has an image and you are telling the guy who can't take criticism.that didn't hurt him,that's like Vince machon going after jd from NYC or some other critic of his.


You know most people don't give a fuck about it, they don't watch the show because it's Khan the boss.


----------



## qntntgood

K4L318 said:


> Too much "Me Too" and make ya smile. Not enough unapologetic stars.


Pro wrestling could come back,if they listen to and not the internet wrestling community.and on common sense shown,and one that is unbelievable.


----------



## rbl85

qntntgood said:


> Pro wrestling could come back,if they listen to and not the internet wrestling community.and on common sense shown,and one that is unbelievable.


Come back to what ?

To what they we're doing in the 90s or early 2000 ? XD


----------



## Shock Street

rbl85 said:


> I don't think the people who bought the PPV (more or less 100K) are in the 50+ demo XD


Didn't the WO figure out the median age of AEW viewers is 49? I don't have a sub to the newsletter, but judging by other articles I'm seeing it was in May of 2020 they got to that number. Not sure how they figure this out to be honest, but if it's correct I think there's more of em watching AEW than one would expect.


----------



## K4L318

qntntgood said:


> Pro wrestling could come back,if they listen to and not the internet wrestling community.and on common sense shown,and one that is unbelievable.


Tony Nerd wont sign a Blanchard cuz he gon get the tweets. Stays clear on Scrull cuz a "Me Too" 

we watching the death of wrestling worldwide.


----------



## La Parka

Shock Street said:


> I always bet too high so I'm saying 780k


I would’ve won until this post.

damn it


----------



## yeahright2

Okay.. Ratings are in for 3/10/21

*AEW did 743,000 (0.32, #4 on cable)*
Here are the predictions:
yeahright2 895K
DammitChrist 910 K
sim8 1,000,040
La Parka 850k
Pentagon Senior 920k 0.35 demo
RapShepard 940k .31
Prosper 920K overall, 0.37 demo
The Doctor Middy Experience 915k and a .33
LifeInCattleClass 910k / 0.36
Mr316 935k.
Two Sheds 900k
El Hammerstone 898K
Joe Gill 1 million
The Wood 891k
*Shock Street 780k*

looks like @Shock Street came closest this week, even though he was a late entry.
Thanks for playing everyone, let´s do it again next week 

*But just to make it clear; next week and going forward, predictions shall be made before the show airs.*

... How the hell can we be so wrong? last week I won with a prediction that was 15K off the actual numbers? I guess that rather bad PPV hurt them.


----------



## ProjectGargano

yeahright2 said:


> Okay.. Ratings are in for 3/10/21
> 
> *AEW did 743,000 (0.32, #4 on cable)*
> Here are the predictions:
> yeahright2 895K
> DammitChrist 910 K
> sim8 1,000,040
> La Parka 850k
> Pentagon Senior 920k 0.35 demo
> RapShepard 940k .31
> Prosper 920K overall, 0.37 demo
> The Doctor Middy Experience 915k and a .33
> LifeInCattleClass 910k / 0.36
> Mr316 935k.
> Two Sheds 900k
> El Hammerstone 898K
> Joe Gill 1 million
> The Wood 891k
> *Shock Street 780k*
> 
> looks like @Shock Street came closest this week, even though he was a late entry.
> Thanks for playing everyone, let´s do it again next week
> 
> *But just to make it clear; next week and going forward, predictions shall be made before the show airs.*
> 
> ... How the hell can we be so wrong? last week I won with a prediction that was 15K off the actual numbers? I guess that rather bad PPV hurt them.


Next week i´ll bet in 820k


----------



## Shock Street

yeahright2 said:


> *But just to make it clear; next week and going forward, predictions shall be made before the show airs.*
> 
> ... How the hell can we be so wrong? last week I won with a prediction that was 15K off the actual numbers? I guess that rather bad PPV hurt them.


And I thought I was making an extreme guess... I didn't expect to be over, I expected to be well under.


----------



## rbl85

ProjectGargano said:


> Next week i´ll bet in 820k


 50+ seem to like women segments.


----------



## yeahright2

ProjectGargano said:


> Next week i´ll bet in 820k


Shall I mark it up already?


----------



## ProjectGargano

yeahright2 said:


> Shall I mark it up already?


Yes, i am fully confident


----------



## rbl85

yeahright2 said:


> Shall I mark it up already?


837K for me and 0.34 in the demo


----------



## VIP86

just a reminder to people
next week has Marko Stunt wrestling 🤮
and Girls main eventing 🤣

they really don't care about growing their audience
they're just happy with what they have


----------



## qntntgood

rbl85 said:


> You know most people don't give a fuck about it, they don't watch the show because it's Khan the boss.





rbl85 said:


> Come back to what ?
> 
> To what they we're doing in the 90s or early 2000 ? XD


 Hmm' that may never happen again, but stranger thing have happened.look at WWE before the attitude area,everyone thought they finished and vine couldn't create another hulk Hogan macho randy savage.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

A cartoon that started 25 YEARS ago destroys wrestling. Niche, it is, for wrestling.

Woof.


----------



## ProjectGargano

VIP86 said:


> just a reminder to people
> next week has Marko Stunt wrestling 🤮
> and Girls main eventing 🤣
> 
> they really don't care about growing their audience
> they're just happy with what they have


Actually i think that these girls could be a good draw. Rosa vs Baker (that have a good storyline behind them) in a lights out match could draw a good number.


----------



## VIP86

ProjectGargano said:


> Actually i think that these girls could be a good draw. Rosa vs Baker (that have a good storyline behind them) in a lights out match could draw a good number.


the number will be in the normal AEW range between 700 and 950


----------



## rbl85

VIP86 said:


> the number will be in the normal AEW range between 700 and 950


Lol you're taking a lot of risk aren't you ? XD


----------



## RomeoBlues

It's not good for AEW, they would have been expecting over 850k coming out of a PPV and with Christian making his Dynamite debut.


----------



## The Wood

Smark1995 said:


> It even disappointed a lot of AEW fans. I am a mark for no company right now but always hoping that someone is going to step up and offer wrestling fans something worth watching and holy s**t did AEW just drop the f**king anvil on their own heads with Revolution. For a second I almost felt a little hype thinking maybe they actually got a big name like Punk or Batista to help them get a boost, but when I found out it was Christian I actually laughed. lol
> 
> This company is turning out to be as bad as TNA was with their "big reveals" that ended up being total duds. I just don't get how Cody, the Bucks, and even Christian himself did not get in Khan's ear to let him now what a horrible idea over hyping that signing was. They have no excuse for letting him do that. All of them should have known better.


It’s just amazing they get someone as talented as CHRISTIAN and fuck it up. You could see on Christian’s face that this was fucked from the start. I’m sure his bank account is fine, and I’m sure he’ll have just a dandy match with Kenny Omega, but w



rbl85 said:


> Sure 50+ people are really the type of people to know that Khan was a bad bad man against that poor little girl.....
> 
> Seriously....


When you’re a figure with a public image and you’re a cunt, it gets around to people. It doesn’t help.



rbl85 said:


> Come back to what ?
> 
> To what they we're doing in the 90s or early 2000 ? XD


Better than what they are now. WWE prove what is possible. Many other shows get much higher viewership. Why can’t they do better? 



VIP86 said:


> just a reminder to people
> next week has Marko Stunt wrestling 🤮
> and Girls main eventing 🤣
> 
> they really don't care about growing their audience
> they're just happy with what they have


They do not give a solitary single shit, lol.


----------



## Klitschko

Shit rating for a good episode. It will probably go up next week though.


----------



## VIP86

rbl85 said:


> Lol you're taking a lot of risk aren't you ? XD


do you want to bet money that i'm right ? 🤑
i'm confident about my pinpoint prediction


----------



## rbl85

VIP86 said:


> do you want to bet money that i'm right ? 🤑
> i'm confident about my pinpoint prediction


Well i hope you're lowest number is right because that would suck if AEW did below 700K


----------



## yeahright2

VIP86 said:


> do you want to bet money that i'm right ? 🤑
> i'm confident about my pinpoint prediction


If you wanna join the game, you have to be more precise


----------



## VIP86

yeahright2 said:


> If you wanna join the game, you have to be more precise


what game ?
there's a game !!? 😲


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Ratings went down for the same reason it always does, AEW can't create new fans, they bring people in for a special episode but they never manage to keep the audience.


----------



## yeahright2

VIP86 said:


> what game ?
> there's a game !!? 😲


----------



## VIP86

yeahright2 said:


>


Serious
i didn't know there was a game
dammit, i always miss the fun stuff


----------



## .christopher.

Wait....

After all the hype and controversy coming off a PPV, not only did they get nowhere near a million like some predicted, they lost viewers?

Hahaha.


----------



## yeahright2

VIP86 said:


> Serious
> i didn't know there was a game
> dammit, i always miss the fun stuff


Okay. Yep, there´s a ratings prediction game.. Winner gets bragging rights for a week  
We´ve been having this game for 2 episodes now, and so far everyone who participates seems to have fun with it, regardless if they disagree on practically everything AEW related.
It will get it´s own thread if @Firefromthegods is okay with it?


----------



## DammitChrist

.christopher. said:


> Wait....
> 
> After all the hype and controversy coming off a PPV, not only did they get nowhere near a million like some predicted, they lost viewers?
> 
> Hahaha.


Yikes, your mediocre sense of 'humor' here is pretty bad.


----------



## .christopher.

DammitChrist said:


> Yikes, your mediocre sense of 'humor' here is pretty bad.


If that's coming from someone who found Omega's shitty promo funny, I'm chuffed with that.


----------



## DammitChrist

.christopher. said:


> If that's coming from someone who found Omega's shitty promo funny, I'm chuffed with that.


Kenny Omega’s promo last night was actually good/entertaining, and it easily triumphs over your mediocre taste in comedy tbh.


----------



## .christopher.

DammitChrist said:


> Kenny Omega’s promo last night was actually good/entertaining, and it easily triumphs over your mediocre taste in comedy tbh.


Anyone who found that funny/entertaining has no right to criticise someone elses taste in comedy. Made Cena's poop jokes look like prime Frasier.


----------



## CM Buck

yeahright2 said:


> Okay. Yep, there´s a ratings prediction game.. Winner gets bragging rights for a week
> We´ve been having this game for 2 episodes now, and so far everyone who participates seems to have fun with it, regardless if they disagree on practically everything AEW related.
> It will get it´s own thread if @Firefromthegods is okay with it?


Go for it.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> Yikes, your mediocre sense of 'humor' here is pretty bad.


Um, that wasn’t a joke. Your whole thing is to add zero actual content and talk like some authority (with NOTHING to back it up) and get upset at anyone who laughs at/criticises AEW.

Honestly, this shouldn’t be allowed. You had nothing to actual discussion. You don’t make points. You say “No, this poster isn’t great actually” whereas they’ve actually been trying to make a point whether you like it or not.

Shape up and be better.


----------



## DammitChrist

.christopher. said:


> Anyone who found that funny/entertaining has no right to criticise someone elses taste in comedy. Made Cena's poop jokes look like prime Frasier.


Hey, your sense of ‘humor’ involves the need for wrestling fans to be disappointed or dissatisfied in general, so you’re really the last one to talk about good comedy tbh.



The Wood said:


> Um, that wasn’t a joke. Your whole thing is to add zero actual content and talk like some authority (with NOTHING to back it up) and get upset at anyone who laughs at/criticises AEW.


Aren’t you the one who intentionally judges what passes as a “good” post on here? 😂

Coming from you, it’s best if you realize that you’ve got no right in telling someone to “be better.”


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> Hey, your sense of ‘humor’ involves the need for wrestling fans to be disappointed or dissatisfied in general, so you’re really the last one to talk about good comedy tbh.


Some wrestling fans have been disappointed since Dynamite started. Have some compassion for the common man.


----------



## .christopher.

DammitChrist said:


> Hey, your sense of ‘humor’ involves the need for wrestling fans to be disappointed or dissatisfied in general, so you’re really the last one to talk about good comedy tbh.


Not really. I want a proper wrestling product so when a company uses it time on TV to mock wrestling and ends up getting poor ratings as a result, well, that's when I start smiling.

It's a shame because a lot of the blame will fall on Christian's head.


----------



## The Wood

.christopher. said:


> Not really. I want a proper wrestling product so when a company uses it time on TV to mock wrestling and ends up getting poor ratings as a result, well, that's when I start smiling.
> 
> It's a shame because a lot of the blame will fall on Christian's head.


I wonder how he’s got to be feeling? I mean, he’s probably getting at least $20k a week, so he might just be smiling to the bank, but it can’t feel artistically good.

I’m hoping he sees this as a real challenge.


----------



## qntntgood

K4L318 said:


> Tony Nerd wont sign a Blanchard cuz he gon get the tweets. Stays clear on Scrull cuz a "Me Too"
> 
> we watching the death of wrestling worldwide.


I've stated before,he is too soft for this business.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Hey, your sense of ‘humor’ involves the need for wrestling fans to be disappointed or dissatisfied in general, so you’re really the last one to talk about good comedy tbh.


Why are you attacking his sense of humor instead of addressing or arguing the points? No one wants to see goofy schizophrenic nonsensical crap. You might be shocked that people are tuning out and the ratings are flat overall year to year, but it is quite logical to me. No one wants to see a bunch of bland goofs who mock wrestling.


----------



## .christopher.

The Wood said:


> I wonder how he’s got to be feeling? I mean, he’s probably getting at least $20k a week, so he might just be smiling to the bank, but it can’t feel artistically good.
> 
> I’m hoping he sees this as a real challenge.


Christian always comes across as passionate about the business so I doubt he's happy at the way they've handled the beginning of his AEW career.

He always wants to give the fans the best he can, but he knows he'll be looked at as a disappointment (through no fault of his own) after the hype Tony saddled him with. I bet he knew what'd happen as soon as Tony spilled the plan, but he's a good employee who tries not to cause problems which hindered him here.


----------



## The Wood

Weird flash of a hypothetical future I just saw: Christian ends up as booker in AEW when TK realises this is too hard.


----------



## DammitChrist

Two Sheds said:


> Why are you attacking his sense of humor instead of addressing or arguing the points? No one wants to see goofy schizophrenic nonsensical crap. You might be shocked that people are tuning out and the ratings are flat overall year to year, but it is quite logical to me. No one wants to see a bunch of bland goofs who mock wrestling.


Except there’s valid points from him (or here) worth addressing here, so the comment was warranted :lol


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Except there’s valid points from him (or here) worth addressing here, so the comment was warranted :lol


Right, there ARE valid points worth addressing here, so maybe address them instead of doing an ad hominem?


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> Except there’s valid points from him (or here) worth addressing here, so the comment was warranted :lol


Yes there is. Ratings are down. The PPV didn’t deliver. Nor did the tentpole show last week. They’re very good points, lol.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> Kenny Omega’s promo last night was actually good/entertaining, and it easily triumphs over your mediocre taste in comedy tbh.


69 and sex jokes are the lowest form of comedy these days mate, it wasn't funny


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> 69 and sex jokes are the lowest form of comedy these days mate, it wasn't funny


Thankfully, plenty of folks disagree with your take here, and they also enjoyed last night’s big segment


----------



## .christopher.

DammitChrist said:


> Thankfully, plenty of folks disagree with your take here, and they also enjoyed last night’s big segment


Yep, the ratings really attest to that!


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Thankfully, plenty of folks disagree with your take here, and they also enjoyed last night’s big segment


That is not a response, that is just a sentence.

Let me see if I can play along with how you do this.

"Thankfully well over two and a half times as many people tuned in and enjoyed RAW proving once again it is the superior show "

Man, that was easy! I did not have to think or argue anything! I just had to write a simplistic sentence and add a smiley or a passive aggressive remark like "tbh." Why did I not just start doing this years ago?


----------



## DammitChrist

Two Sheds said:


> That is not a response, that is just a sentence.
> 
> Let me see if I can play along with how you do this.
> 
> "Thankfully well over two and a half times as many people tuned in and enjoyed RAW proving once again it is the superior show "
> 
> Man, that was easy! I did not have to think or argue anything! I just had to write a simplistic sentence and add a smiley or a passive aggressive remark like "tbh." Why did I not just start doing this years ago?


Except quantity doesn’t equate to quality considering how Raw is widely regarded by wresting fans to have inconsistent/mediocre shows on a weekly basis even though their ratings are somehow higher.

Your quote doesn’t work here at all.



.christopher. said:


> Yep, the ratings really attest to that!


You’re definitely worth taking seriously since you still claim that wrestling is “dead!” :lol


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Except quantity doesn’t equate to quality considering how Raw is widely regarded by wresting fans to have inconsistent/mediocre shows on a weekly basis even though their ratings are somehow higher.
> 
> Your quote doesn’t work here at all.


And the same thing can be said about AEW: inconsistent/mediocre shows. I call it schizophrenic almost ever week and it shows. The ratings reflect that sentiment. Exactly the same as RAW. You have great things like the Hurt Business and bland geeks like Flipochet causing people to flip channels faster than he can flip off a rope. I like how you say their ratings are "somehow" higher, like it was magic or just some inexplicable thing. Who knows really why AEW has been flat? Could not possibly be that they did not live up to what they said they would be when they launched. Could not possibly be their schizophrenic booking or WWE lite angles, or endless parades of goofs that are dollar store versions of what Vince comes up with at 3am thinking about pancakes. Nah, just SOMEHOW RAW still gets higher ratings. No one can really explain it tbh


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> Thankfully, plenty of folks disagree with your take here, and they also enjoyed last night’s big segment


The ratings show otherwise.


----------



## The Wood

Two Sheds said:


> That is not a response, that is just a sentence.
> 
> Let me see if I can play along with how you do this.
> 
> "Thankfully well over two and a half times as many people tuned in and enjoyed RAW proving once again it is the superior show "
> 
> Man, that was easy! I did not have to think or argue anything! I just had to write a simplistic sentence and add a smiley or a passive aggressive remark like "tbh." Why did I not just start doing this years ago?


You actually used too much substance. You added a clause to your statement. It would have been more accurate if you just said “Raw is a good show.”


----------



## VIP86

Christian Cage situation shows that Tony khan is an excited fan, not a wise experienced booker.
announcing that there is a major star coming without taking his permission first, was really an unprofessional move by AEW.
imagine if the negotiations broke down and he said no, after they made a big announcement about it
that would have been a bigger botch than the explosion

here's what Christian Cage said
"I didn't know, and as far as I knew at that point in time, I was going to be a complete secret, and I would just show up and be a surprise. I didn't realize there's gonna be an announcement, and honestly, this is 100 percent honest. On Wednesday, there was nothing signed."


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> The ratings show otherwise.


You must have missed the part where quantity doesn't equate to quality.

Raw has higher ratings, but yet it's easily still the worst wrestling show out of the other ones on television whereas Dynamite and NXT easily tops Raw in quality despite the numbers.

If we use your mediocre logic here, then you must genuinely believe that Raw is arguably the "best" wrestling show on TV; which would be quite laughable tbh.

Your "witty" reply doesn't work here at all.


----------



## Aedubya

South Park destroyed them lol


----------



## VIP86

Aedubya said:


> South Park destroyed them lol


South Park did better than WWE RAW
a cartoon is getting more viewers now than pro wrestling
wrestling is really dying


----------



## thorn123

Another week of dynamite, another prime example as to why there is not an audience for quality pro wrestling.


----------



## Not Lying

Aedubya said:


> South Park destroyed them lol


As it should. South Park is great, and they haven't done a full season in like 2 years, they did the pandemic special in October and now the Vaccination special, haven't watched it yet, because I'm waiting for the weekend to really enjoy it as I chill and watch.



VIP86 said:


> South Park did better than WWE RAW
> a cartoon is getting more viewers now than pro wrestling
> wrestling is really dying



South Park > Pro Wrestling, for the most part.

Hell, I thought Omega's "69 me Don", the way he said it seemed very similar to this


----------



## VIP86

The Definition of Technician said:


> South Park > Pro Wrestling, for the most part.


I guess I have to agree
I don't have any wrestling shows on my hard drive
But I do have 311 episodes of South Park 🙂


----------



## Outlaw91

Kind of bad ratings, I still think next week's ratings could be higher though.


----------



## Erik.

Revolution buy rates apparently the best in any non-WWE PPV in the US since 1999.

Grossing in the excess of $7,000,000 and over 120,000 in buy rates apparently.


----------



## RapShepard

Meltzer


> “We know that this did very big on PPV. Most likely, the biggest one they’ve done to date. It’s not 100% the biggest but it will probably be the biggest by a wide margin. Right now, we’ll say it’s probably the biggest because we don’t have the traditional television pay-per-view numbers. We’ve got everything else, and it’s way above everything.”


Meltzer



> What do we learn from this number being well up from any show that they’ve ever done? What’s the conclusion? Is it the bombs? Is it the promise of a surprise person? Is it Sting? Because it was Sting’s first match in over five years, and his first in AEW. Sting’s first match should draw, so it could be that. Omega/Moxley, obviously you’ve got to give credit to the main-eventers. They’re part of it. And then the other one is Sunday rather than Saturday. They’ve done all these Saturday shows, they do one Sunday show, it does way better. Sunday is the traditional day for PPV.”












AEW Revolution 2021 Set To Break Company PPV Buys Record


Revolution 2021 could be set to become the most-bought PPV in AEW history.




whatculture.com


----------



## Klitschko

I fucking hate Meltzer. They got the biggest buyrate, but not 100% the biggest buyrate, but most likely they did with all the data we have, but we don't have the main data. What the fuck?


----------



## DammitChrist

Wow, a 99% highest buy rate sounds pretty motivating :bjpenn


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Erik. said:


> Revolution buy rates apparently the best in any non-WWE PPV in the US since 1999.
> 
> Grossing in the excess of $7,000,000 and over 120,000 in buy rates apparently.


That's pretty damn impressive if true. Wow.


----------



## Prosper

If buy-rates for Revolution were 120K then that is pretty damn good. That would be in line with their highest buy-rate at Revolution last year I believe it was. The DON card needs to get them to 150K though. Book Blood and Guts.



VIP86 said:


> South Park did better than WWE RAW
> a cartoon is getting more viewers now than pro wrestling
> wrestling is really dying


South Park is hilarious lol can you blame them? They should incorporate "They killed Kenny!!" line into Dynamite when Kenny gets murked lol


----------



## rbl85

Here is the quarters ratings for the last show :
Q1 : Matt Jackson vs. Rey Fenix = 756k and 462K in 18-49 (more than the Shaq match last week)
Q2 : End of Matt Jackson vs. Fenix, a Jon Moxley & Eddie Kingston interview, Cody Rhodes vs. Seth Gargis and the Cody/Penta angle = 751K and 441 in 18/49
Q3 : Chuck Taylor & Orange Cassidy interview, Sting & Lance Archer & Jake Roberts, QT Marshall interview and the beginning of Lee Johnson vs. Ethan Pag = 757K and 445 18/49
Q4 : Johnson vs. Page (sound problem), the post-match + Adam Page & Dark Order and Kenny Omega & Don Callis & Good Brothers out = 719K and 418K 18/49
Q5 : Omega, Good Brothers, Callis brawl with Eddie Kingston and debut of Christian Cage and the beginning of the women’s six-person tag match with Nyla Rose & Britt Baker & Maki Itoh vs. Hikaru Shida & Ryo Mizunami & Thunder Rosa = 758K and 413 18/49
Q6 : the end of the women’s six-person match, Matt Hardy introducing Butcher & Blade & Bunny to his stable and the beginning of Darby Allin vs Scorpio Sky = 697K and 364 in 18/49
Q7 : Darbt vs Scorpio = 766K and 385 18/49
Q8 : Inner circle war council = 742K and 391K 18/49

So this week episode really had a great retention but the women tag match did pretty bad.


----------



## Prosper

Damn, cable people really tuned out during the women's tag match, but came back for Darby vs Scorpio.


----------



## One Shed

So the excuse of South Park goes out the window. That was only an hour and the show was pretty much flat for all two hours this week.


----------



## rbl85

Two Sheds said:


> So the excuse of South Park goes out the window. That was only an hour and the show was pretty much flat for all two hours this week.


South Park maybe hurt a little the 12/34 demo but when you look at the rating it's just the 50+ people who weren't interested in watching the show.


----------



## omaroo

Really good buyrate number. 

Would be interesting to know the international number but don't believe that's 
Possible.


----------



## Shock Street

Shit, Revolution really hurt them afterall. Hope they learn something from it.


----------



## 3venflow

So if AEW made $7,000,000 from Revolution and can maintain similar buyrates, would moving to HBO Max be more or less profitable from the get-go?

Long-term, HBO Max would help them grow the fanbase more because of their huge sub count, but what about financially?

Apparently, B/R Live numbers were up 50% too and there was a 20-40% increase in international streaming numbers.



> Q8 : Inner circle war council = 742K and 391K 18/49


Q8 dropped for both shows - Balor vs. Cole for the NXT title, one of their trump cards, did their WORST QH of the entire show (631k). Then NXT's unopposed overrun, which inflated their rating again and saw Kross confront Balor, did 814k - the highest number of BOTH shows and more proof that having them not run H2H would boost ratings.


----------



## NathanMayberry

hurrr durr MARKI ITOH IS A DRAW!!!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

120k ppv buyrate @yeahright2


----------



## TD Stinger

Not surprising to me that it was that high. I mean even in 2021, it had Sting's 1st match in 5 1/2 years. Throw in a barbwire death match and a late surprise and there you go.


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 120k ppv buyrate @yeahright2


That´s the one we´re going with? Okay  here they are.

LifeInCattleClass 135k buys
*omaroo 110,000 buys.*
RapShepard 107k
yeahright2 93K
Erik. over 100k.
Klitschko 130k
Prosper 135K
TKO Wrestling 140k.
Prized Fighter 105k
PhenomenalOne11 107k

@omaroo Congrats, you were only 10K off .


----------



## The Wood

Erik. said:


> Revolution buy rates apparently the best in any non-WWE PPV in the US since 1999.
> 
> Grossing in the excess of $7,000,000 and over 120,000 in buy rates apparently.


Wow. I can’t believe people paid $60 for a PPV that cost $20 in most markets. Amazing.

Meltzer is full of shit when it comes to AEW and PPV. Even if it did do well by AEW standards, he’s still conflating it with terrestrial and domestic PPV. I wonder how many of those 120k paying customers felt satisfied with their purchase?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> That´s the one we´re going with? Okay  here they are.
> 
> LifeInCattleClass 135k buys
> *omaroo 110,000 buys.*
> RapShepard 107k
> yeahright2 93K
> Erik. over 100k.
> Klitschko 130k
> Prosper 135K
> TKO Wrestling 140k.
> Prized Fighter 105k
> PhenomenalOne11 107k
> 
> @omaroo Congrats, you were only 10K off .


Nice calls @omaroo

PS> @yeahright2 - you should have a leaderboard


----------



## CRCC

Can Meltzer be trusted with those Numbers?

If he can, that's great news for them but I fear the overall quality of the show light hurt the next PPV's sales.


----------



## .christopher.

The Wood said:


> Wow. I can’t believe people paid $60 for a PPV that cost $20 in most markets. Amazing.
> 
> Meltzer is full of shit when it comes to AEW and PPV. Even if it did do well by AEW standards, he’s still conflating it with terrestrial and domestic PPV. I wonder how many of those 120k paying customers felt satisfied with their purchase?


Not many hence the ratings drop.

The more people that saw that disaster of a PPV, the bigger long term damage it does.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Given the high they had during the Shaq match and the tremendous fall this week, I'd like to think they will finally hire some writers.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Eh. Decent rating. It'll go back up like always.


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Nice calls @omaroo
> 
> PS> @yeahright2 - you should have a leaderboard


If I figure out how to make one, perhaps.. Ideas?


----------



## Hitman1987

Mister Sinister said:


> Given the high they had during the Shaq match and the tremendous fall this week, I'd like to think they will finally hire some writers.


Hopefully this is the reality check TK needed, the roster is there, it’s the booking and production that’s lacking


----------



## SHIRLEY

AEW Revolution drew roughly the same buyrate as stuff of this vintage...


----------



## CRCC

Hitman1987 said:


> Hopefully this is the reality check TK needed, the roster is there, it’s the booking and production that’s lacking


Absolutely, but that's the challenge for many wrestling companies, isn't it, turning potential into quality?

TNA being the greatest example of it.


----------



## Prosper

Here's a nice breakdown from Wrestlenomics on the Revolution PPV. Looks like they pulled 125K buys, net profit of $2.4 million after costs. Pretty successful show and highest buyrate ever. The botched ending may deter some folk from buying DONIII but I think if they book Blood and Guts (MJF's stable vs IC) with Omega/Christian at the top of the card for the show then they will surpass these numbers. Then you can still book Cody/Penta II possibly with Darby/Archer, Britt/Shida, Miro/Hangman maybe.


_*All Elite Wrestling’s “Revolution” event on Sunday, March 7, set a new pay-per-view record for the company, based on early estimates. The event likely attracted about 125,000 buys worldwide, across both digital and traditional platforms. *_

*The event, headlined by an exploding barbed wire deathmatch between Jon Moxley and AEW champion Kenny Omega and closed by a disappointing “time bomb” explosion, generated just over $5 million. The vast majority of that revenue was from pay-per-view sales of the broadcast, but ticket and merchandise sales also contributed.

After splitting revenues with various pay-per-view distributors, AEW will net more than $2 million in revenue.*

_*The event, which probably required under $1 million to produce, was likely quite profitable.*_










_*Wrestlenomics estimate of revenues related to AEW Revolution 2021 (3/7/2021)*_

*Retail price for the PPV was $50 in the U.S. and most of Canada, where sales for this event likely doubled compared to other recent shows. As always, the price was lower in international markets, which mostly sell the PPV at $20 USD. Proceeds from PPV sales are split with distributors, who keep the narrow majority of the revenue. The standard split domestically is 45% to the content provider. Splits in international markets are slightly less favorable, generally.

AEW admitted about 1,150 paid attendees at Daily’s Place in Jacksonville, Florida, according to the Wrestling Observer Newsletter. An estimated average ticket price of $65 was used in this estimate based on the advertised ticket price range of $40 to $90.*

_*Merchandise sales per paid attendee performed better than the usual $15, I was told. A rate of $18 in merchandise per paid ticket was used in the table above to come to a venue merchandise estimate of nearly $22,000.*_


----------



## omaroo

Great success for them.

Only thing I am thinking is with nearly half the revenue going the ppv companies, is it wise to keep the PPV model long term or just move across to HBO max streaming service in the next couple of years.

Its a tricky one tbh.


----------



## yeahright2

$2 million barely covers the salary of all the wrestlers involved. Moxley and Omaga alone costs Tony $ 24.657 per day.


----------



## One Shed

omaroo said:


> Great success for them.
> 
> Only thing I am thinking is with nearly half the revenue going the ppv companies, is it wise to keep the PPV model long term or just move across to HBO max streaming service in the next couple of years.
> 
> Its a tricky one tbh.


That is one thing I have been curious about. Yes, the traditional PPV companies take half, but do we know what Bleacher Report and Fite take? The vast minority of PPV buys for AEW would be the old school PPV channels vs the streaming services.


----------



## RomeoBlues

CRCC said:


> Can Meltzer be trusted with those Numbers?


Nah, take Meltzer's number and half it, that's probably the real buyrate.



Hitman1987 said:


> Hopefully this is the reality check TK needed, the roster is there, it’s the booking and production that’s lacking


The roster isn't there in my opinion. He's got a bunch of stars in their late forties or early fifties and very few strong future prospects.


----------



## Joe Gill

the 50/50 split is what kills the ppv model. Its one of the main reasons Vince created the wwe network... charge less and get 100% of profit. If I was Tony Khan I would make a deal with HBO Max... do 6 ppvs a year plus the Dynamite archive... they could get anywhere in the range of 10-20 mill a year for that which is more profitable than current model.

Charging 50$ in todays landscape is way too much. for that same price of 1 ppv you could get 5 months off peacock, about 4 months of netflix or 5 months of disney+.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> $2 million barely covers the salary of all the wrestlers involved. Moxley and Omaga alone costs Tony $ 24.657 per day.


they didn’t stop working come Monday


----------



## Geert Wilders

yeahright2 said:


> $2 million barely covers the salary of all the wrestlers involved. Moxley and Omaga alone costs Tony $ 24.657 per day.


That's not how the business works.

You must also consider the revenue which comes from "off-days".

This includes:
Merchandise
YouTube
Fite.TV Subscriptions

I suspect a lot of the talent also only get paid per appearance. Jericho, Moxley and Omega are among the few exceptions that are on guaranteed contracts.


----------



## yeahright2

Geert Wilders said:


> That's not how the business works.
> 
> You must also consider the revenue which comes from "off-days".
> 
> This includes:
> Merchandise
> YouTube
> Fite.TV Subscriptions
> 
> I suspect a lot of the talent also only get paid per appearance. Jericho, Moxley and Omega are among the few exceptions that are on guaranteed contracts.


There are no off-days in my calculation. It´s their guaranteed base divided by number of days in a year


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> There are no off-days in my calculation. It´s their guaranteed base divided by number of days in a year


yeah bud - but 2m isn’t their only income in the year


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yeah bud - but 2m isn’t their only income in the year


Yeah, but you’ve got to actually rake in more than you’re spending.


----------



## Geert Wilders

yeahright2 said:


> There are no off-days in my calculation. It´s their guaranteed base divided by number of days in a year


I believe you misunderstand my point buddy. I am not talking about the expenditure. I am talking about income.

Anyway if we are honest, AEW have absolutely overspent. It is just that your calculations are dishonest.


----------



## yeahright2

Geert Wilders said:


> I believe you misunderstand my point buddy. I am not talking about the expenditure. I am talking about income.
> 
> Anyway if we are honest, AEW have absolutely overspent. It is just that your calculations are dishonest.


Gotta admit, I have no idea what you´re talking about 
I was making an offbeat funny remark about the paycheck Moxley and Omega got for the night in base income, they´re said to get $ 6 and $ 3 million/year guaranteed. Merch sales and % of gate revenue not included.
- It was to illustrate exactly what you just said here: AEW overspent.. the $2 million revenue for this event can barely cover the salary of all the wrestlers on the card if you divide the salary with the number of days in a year.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

yeahright2 said:


> Gotta admit, I have no idea what you´re talking about
> I was making an offbeat funny remark about the paycheck Moxley and Omega got for the night in base income, they´re said to get $ 6 and $ 3 million/year guaranteed. Merch sales and % of gate revenue not included.
> - It was to illustrate exactly what you just said here: AEW overspent.. the $2 million revenue for this event can barely cover the salary of all the wrestlers on the card if you divide the salary with the number of days in a year.


If you're calculating using their whole annual salary shouldn't you count the whole AEW income rather than just one small part of it? I think that might be the confusion 🤔


----------



## yeahright2

Pentagon Senior said:


> If you're calculating using their whole annual salary shouldn't you count the whole AEW income rather than just one small part of it? I think that might be the confusion 🤔


Oh, that´s what it´s about? Yeah, maybe.. But I wasn´t looking for a debate whether or not AEW is a financial success as a whole. I just broke down their salary to what they would get for one nights show.

But if this event was supposed to be a financial success, should´t the income from this event at least cover the expenses of salary paid to the wrestlers for this one night? At least that´s my take on it. And with the big contracts some of these guys have, I don´t think the $2 Million revenue sounds like a lot. 

Anyway, thanks for trying to clear up things


----------



## Pentagon Senior

yeahright2 said:


> Oh, that´s what it´s about? Yeah, maybe.. But I wasn´t looking for a debate whether or not AEW is a financial success as a whole. I just broke down their salary to what they would get for one nights show.
> 
> But if this event was supposed to be a financial success, should´t the income from this event at least cover the expenses of salary paid to the wrestlers for this one night? At least that´s my take on it. And with the big contracts some of these guys have, I don´t think the $2 Million revenue sounds like a lot.
> 
> Anyway, thanks for trying to clear up things


No probs! I guess it's a fun calculation but I don't see that it has much meaning. AEW still get TV income during the weeks of a ppv. The salaries are paid taking all income into account including TV revenue, ppv's, sponsorship, merch etc. Would be fun to see all the numbers together to be fair 🤔


----------



## omaroo

What do you guys think of AEWs potential next TV deal? Could it be much bigger than the current one?

Thinking if they can grow more than they are now in the next 2 years. Could it be feasilbe TNT could pay over $300 million for AEW rights?


----------



## RapShepard

omaroo said:


> What do you guys think of AEWs potential next TV deal? Could it be much bigger than the current one?
> 
> Thinking if they can grow more than they are now in the next 2 years. Could it be feasilbe TNT could pay over $300 million for AEW rights?


It'll be bigger and viewership slightly down, but networks still need live TV.


----------



## 3venflow

The next TV deal will be way bigger. Both WWE and AEW's TV deals are currently undervalued.

In the meantime, I'm wondering how much extra they will get for the second TNT/WarnerMedia show? How do these things work? If it's a 60 minute show instead of 120, are they entitled to a deal worth 50% of the Dynamite one? Or is it more of a package thing where they top up the Dynamite deal some?


----------



## One Shed

3venflow said:


> The next TV deal will be way bigger. Both WWE and AEW's TV deals are currently undervalued.
> 
> In the meantime, I'm wondering how much extra they will get for the second TNT/WarnerMedia show? How do these things work? If it's a 60 minute show instead of 120, are they entitled to a deal worth 50% of the Dynamite one? Or is it more of a package thing where they top up the Dynamite deal some?


It depends on the time slot and the ad rates TNT can get for that type of program at that time slot. If I had to guess, it would likely be a separate deal. Both the network and AEW would want the deals to be severable in case the second show does poorly for some reason. I would say less than 50% given the number of people watching on Saturday is generally less than primetime on a weeknight (assuming it is on Saturday).


----------



## The Wood

They might get a little more, but not anywhere near the WWE.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> Oh, that´s what it´s about? Yeah, maybe.. But I wasn´t looking for a debate whether or not AEW is a financial success as a whole. I just broke down their salary to what they would get for one nights show.
> 
> But if this event was supposed to be a financial success, should´t the income from this event at least cover the expenses of salary paid to the wrestlers for this one night? At least that´s my take on it. And with the big contracts some of these guys have, I don´t think the $2 Million revenue sounds like a lot.
> 
> Anyway, thanks for trying to clear up things


2m usd is a lot for a night’s work IMO


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 2m usd is a lot for a night’s work IMO


The actual revenue amount is completely irrelevant. Only the net amount matters in any business. I am not saying AEW is losing money, but the number that matters is not the revenue.


----------



## RomeoBlues

Got to keep in mind PPV bonuses also...you think the top stars of AEW like Jericho, Mox, Omega, Cody aren't getting a PPV bonus?


----------



## The Wood

I still think one of the biggest albatrosses around the next of AEW, business-wise, is that ad revenue split. That is pretty unusual for television. In a world where cable is dying and executives want to prove their worth, I could see a network exec getting quite annoyed at that deal because they could be making twice as much off AEW as they are.

For TNT to have made they deal with AEW, they would have to have been generating more revenue than those rights fees. So that’s at least $50 million left on the table. Likely a lot more.

If those contracts are renegotiated, AEW could end up without a revenue stream, which could affect what they can pay talent. That could be disastrous for the company.


----------



## VIP86

The Wood said:


> I still think one of the biggest albatrosses around the next of AEW, business-wise, is that ad revenue split. That is pretty unusual for television. In a world where cable is dying and executives want to prove their worth, I could see a network exec getting quite annoyed at that deal because they could be making twice as much off AEW as they are.
> 
> For TNT to have made they deal with AEW, they would have to have been generating more revenue than those rights fees. So that’s at least $50 million left on the table. Likely a lot more.
> 
> If those contracts are renegotiated, AEW could end up without a revenue stream, which could affect what they can pay talent. That could be disastrous for the company.


AEW is already WWE 2.0 in spirit
so probably their next move is to make it a public company maybe

Tony is desperate to be the next Vince McMahon
and funnily enough, both got handed a company by their dads
the difference is Vince McMahon bought the company from his dad
and Tony....well, cried until he got one


----------



## 10gizzle

The Wood said:


> I still think one of the biggest albatrosses around the next of AEW, business-wise, is that ad revenue split. That is pretty unusual for television. In a world where cable is dying and executives want to prove their worth, I could see a network exec getting quite annoyed at that deal because they could be making twice as much off AEW as they are.
> 
> For TNT to have made they deal with AEW, they would have to have been generating more revenue than those rights fees. So that’s at least $50 million left on the table. Likely a lot more.
> 
> If those contracts are renegotiated, AEW could end up without a revenue stream, which could affect what they can pay talent. That could be disastrous for the company.





The Wood said:


> Yeah, but you’ve got to actually rake in more than you’re spending.


You quite literally have zero idea what you're talking about. Why do you talk out of your ass all the time?

Is it because nobody points out the baseless comments you make?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Out of interest sake


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1372243151830781954


----------



## omaroo

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Out of interest sake
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1372243151830781954


Only thing will say is WWE is on pay TV here and AEW is on a free to air channel. Even though the timing on ITV is usually really late. 

Maybe be tricky to compare as one is on pay TV and the other on free to air TV.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Out of interest sake
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1372243151830781954


Putting aside any AEW/WWE comparison 145k seems a pretty healthy number for the UK, no?


----------



## 3venflow

I keep track of the AEW on ITV ratings and they've been doing really well lately.

I don't watch on ITV4 and I'd guess most 'hardcore' fans don't as it involves waiting two nights, which makes the $4.99/month for FITE TV good value. AEW Plus is FITE's most subscribed to product.

March 15: 143,000
March 8: 141,000
March 1: 145,000
February 22: 124,000
February 15: 144,000
February 8: 91,000
February 1: 114,000
January 25: did not chart (less than 103,000 which is what the #50 show rated)
January 18: 115,000
January 11: did not chart
January 4: 98,000
December 21: 150,000
December 14: 138,000
December 7: 135,000
November 30: 164,000
November 23: 143,000
November 16: 99,000
November 9: 123,000
November 2: 155,000


----------



## omaroo

Pentagon Senior said:


> Putting aside any AEW/WWE comparison 145k seems a pretty healthy number for the UK, no?


Ye its a very good number for the UK audience all things considered.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

omaroo said:


> Ye its a very good number for the UK audience all things considered.


Yup! It's on pretty late here too isn't it and they've had issues of not running on time etc... So fair play I say


----------



## .christopher.

The UK ratings are amazing. It may not look like it, but when you factor in the channel it's on and the time it airs, they're very impressive.

Not to mention ITV really doesn't advertise the show. If they got behind it a bit, moved it to ITV 2, I'm sure the numbers would keep growing.


----------



## DaSlacker

To play devil's advocate - 

Raw and SmackDown also have 1 hour edited versions on Saturday and Sunday mornings on Channel Five at about 10am. 

Dynamite is also shown at around midnight on ITV 1 on a Monday night.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Source: Top programmes report


When put into perspective Dynamite gets less viewers than 20 year old movies, 40 year old movies, darts and racing highlights..


----------



## Pentagon Senior

NathanMayberry said:


> View attachment 98817
> 
> Source: Top programmes report
> 
> 
> When put into perspective Dynamite gets less viewers than 20 year old movies, 40 year old movies, darts and racing highlights..


Whilst WWE shows get less than a third of that. I guess wrestling ain't mainstream these days 🤷‍♂️ Thanks for going to the trouble of finding that tho 👍


----------



## thorn123

Another excellent episode. So that means a mediocre rating coming.


----------



## 3venflow

Watch as this week's show does 750k and next week's with Darby vs. Silver, Kenny vs. Sydal and Spears/FTR vs. Blonds/Dante does 975k. 😂


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Watch as this week's show does 750k and next week's with Darby vs. Silver, Kenny vs. Sydal and Spears/FTR vs. Blonds/Dante does 975k. 😂


Hey now, Darby v Silver is gonna rock the world


----------



## Prosper

That show and main event deserves at least 900K cable viewers


----------



## Klitschko

Calling 880k. Last week was great with a shit rating, so most likely this week will get a good rating. Plus it was a good episode so it should have retained some fans through the night.


----------



## TD Stinger

I'll guess 850k, .33 rating


----------



## yeahright2

Klitschko said:


> Calling 880k. Last week was great with a shit rating, so most likely this week will get a good rating. Plus it was a good episode so it should have retained some fans through the night.





TD Stinger said:


> I'll guess 850k, .33 rating


Sorry guys, the rules clearly state you have to make your predicitons BEFORE the show.
AEW Ratings prediction game



Prosper said:


> That show and main event deserves at least 900K cable viewers


You already predicted 845K overall, 0.37 demo, but yes, it was a strong show.


----------



## Aedubya

.86


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1372638880348930052

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr316

Not good. Go ahead AEW fans, keep saying they’re perfect when you know deep down it’s not even close to being the product it could of been.


----------



## Alright_Mate

An episode that most people will agree deserved a better rating.

But as I said last week, coming off a PPV littered with mistakes, it’s going to take a bit of time to gain some trust back, and get that viewing number up again.


----------



## The Wood

Oh shit, I way overestimated what they’d do.

1.37 million people watching on Wednesdays. That doesn’t sound good. 



10gizzle said:


> You quite literally have zero idea what you're talking about. Why do you talk out of your ass all the time?
> 
> Is it because nobody points out the baseless comments you make?


Usually they do what you do — take shots without actually having an argument or any content to their post. What even is this? You’ve said _nothing_ in here?

What exactly do you have a gripe with? That TNT would want more money? Or that you need to bring in more money than you spend to make a profit? Because I’d love to hear what is so “baseless?”


----------



## Prosper

Meh whatever. Cable ratings don't always equal quality. Last night's main event and show deserved way more, which I'm certain they got when all mediums are taken into account.


----------



## Geeee

Good thing NXT is moving days. Is that the lowest number for them in total viewers yet?


----------



## llj

Less and less people care about wrestling nowadays. It's just used as reliable original content for TV networks.


----------



## The Wood

Alright_Mate said:


> An episode that most people will agree deserved a better rating.
> 
> But as I said last week, coming off a PPV littered with mistakes, it’s going to take a bit of time to gain some trust back, and get that viewing number up again.


What’s all this “it deserves a better rating” talk? I’m not targeting you, I just hear it all the time. Dynamite is a serialised television program. One great episode (arguably) doesn’t warrant a great rating, does it? You’re inheriting the rating you deserve, if you can link people watching to quality.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Wow, disappointing ratings the last two weeks! I've really enjoyed Dynamite the last two months though so I hope they don't change it up. The ppv overhype seems to have hurt them, for now.


----------



## RapShepard

The Wood said:


> What’s all this “it deserves a better rating” talk? I’m not targeting you, I just hear it all the time. Dynamite is a serialised television program. One great episode (arguably) doesn’t warrant a great rating, does it? You’re inheriting the rating you deserve, if you can link people watching to quality.


I get what you're saying. But what the saying means is more "damn more folk should've saw that". Which isn't a wild statement if you really enjoy something and wish folk would join in on the fun. No different than wishing more people got a chance to play a video game or listen to a band.


----------



## Mr316

There’s no point in analyzing the ratings. AEW created a show for the 700k that watched last night. It will go a little higher sometimes depending on what’s advertised. The sad thing is, it could of been 1.2 million every week if they started off with solid vision for their product.


----------



## 3venflow

Here is the full breakdown. Attracting females in the key demographic age seems to be a problem for AEW. Perhaps it's time to put cowboy Hangman, beefcake Wardlow and pretty boy Sammy in the main events to draw in the females. 

50+ did well for AEW this week.


----------



## ProjectGargano

So next week with a less exciting card will have 850k, right? Isn't always that? 😂


----------



## Alright_Mate

The Wood said:


> What’s all this “it deserves a better rating” talk? I’m not targeting you, I just hear it all the time. Dynamite is a serialised television program. One great episode (arguably) doesn’t warrant a great rating, does it? You’re inheriting the rating you deserve, if you can link people watching to quality.


You know me Wood, I like to get critical when AEW is concerned.

But last night’s show was actually decent, plenty of positives from it, many on here expected in the 800’s, I thought it would produce a similar number as well, it was an episode that warranted much more than 768k, the bump from last week is minuscule and piss poor.

But that’s what happens when your promotion produces a poor PPV and lacks consistency, it could take a little while for them to hit 800k + consistently again, and when they do I guarantee you won’t be seen in this thread 😜


----------



## Prosper

Pentagon Senior said:


> Wow, disappointing ratings the last two weeks! I've really enjoyed Dynamite the last two months though so I hope they don't change it up. The ppv overhype seems to have hurt them, for now.


Yeah I really hope they keep doing what they have been doing. 2021 has been awesome so far I don’t want them to change anything right now. The consistency has really been there as of late. No need to switch stuff up just because of this post PPV ratings slump.


----------



## La Parka

The Wednesday night war has been such a dud.

Not a surprise at either rating. Both shows are just not quality programming. There is not much of an audience for weekly spot fests and hardcore matches every other week. 

Wrestling desperately needs a real north American alternative to Raw and Smackdown's weekly snooze fests.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Mmmm - low demo is no bueno


----------



## Prosper

La Parka said:


> The Wednesday night war has been such a dud.
> 
> Not a surprise at either rating. Both shows are just not quality programming. There is not much of an audience for weekly spot fests and hardcore matches every other week.
> 
> Wrestling desperately needs a real north American alternative to Raw and Smackdown's weekly snooze fests.


Oh the people are there trust me. All 4 shows draw a lot more than you think.


----------



## qntntgood

Mr316 said:


> Not good. Go ahead AEW fans, keep saying they’re perfect when you know deep down it’s not even close to being the product it could of been.


They barely moved the needle,aew is in serious need of a reboot in creative department.


----------



## qntntgood

La Parka said:


> The Wednesday night war has been such a dud.
> 
> Not a surprise at either rating. Both shows are just not quality programming. There is not much of an audience for weekly spot fests and hardcore matches every other week.
> 
> Wrestling desperately needs a real north American alternative to Raw and Smackdown's weekly snooze fests.


That,and no one is listening to what the larger over all group fans really want so most them are moving on.while aew and nxt continue to appease this niche audience,and dod anyone hear the latest wrestling observer were alverez buried the wrestling fans of today.


----------



## TD Stinger

How could this show have not drawn better? You had Bears and Dinosaurs in the ring at the same time damn it!

Seriously though, I'm surprised their Demo dropped. I figured viewership would over 800k but not surprised it was below. NXT had a weak card going into the show and then that go screwed up even more with the Covid outbreak. So I'm not surprised to see their viewership and Demo fall past what they've been doing for the past few weeks.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Pentagon Senior said:


> Whilst WWE shows get less than a third of that. I guess wrestling ain't mainstream these days 🤷‍♂️ Thanks for going to the trouble of finding that tho 👍


You're comparing a set of live shows that start at 1 AM on work nights on a premium channel to one that airs taped at 10 PM on a Friday night on a free channel.


----------



## fabi1982

NathanMayberry said:


> You're comparing a set of live shows that start at 1 AM on work nights on a premium channel to one that airs taped at 10 PM on a Friday night on a free channel.


Of course. Everything to make sure AEW is awesome


----------



## Chan Hung

I'm surprised nobody used the 'it was taped' as a reason for the lower ratings. It was higher this week than last week's. But overall as i mentioned AEW seems to have a hard time moving up on gaining viewership.


----------



## Mister Sinister

They have poopooed the audience. The creative needs to be overhauled. The booking remains the same, and the audience has given up. They should be building an audience every week instead of chasing them away by the tens of thousands and calling them marks on social media.

-Long pointless showcasing matches on tv
-More concern for a 15 minute Buck match than giving the follow-up on the ppv results
-Too many factions
-Bad main event booking (they should have had a big 3v3 with Mox, Sting and Christian vs Omega, PAC and Pentagon)
-Garbage wrestling continues to drown their ratings with families and sports audiences
-No heat in any storylines
-TNT title hardly ever defended
-Suicide dive spamming
-Finisher spamming
-World champ sandwiched in odd quarter hours instead of the prime spots
-Commentary can't be heard half the time
-It's a WWE ring and so the general audience changes the channel because they hate WWE, and the WWE fans don't watch because they are WWE fans and know it's not WWE
-Too few ppvs
-Nothing unexpected ever happens 
-Story doesn't unfold during the episodes (changes to booking, worked injuries, backstage attacks, additional tag team members added to a match)
-No authority character to direct the show on air


----------



## RainmakerV2

Thats horrific for both shows, especially NXT considering they had Balor Kross and Cole all in big spots in the show.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Prosper said:


> Yeah I really hope they keep doing what they have been doing. 2021 has been awesome so far I don’t want them to change anything right now. The consistency has really been there as of late. No need to switch stuff up just because of this post PPV ratings slump.


Totally agree. Keep it up consistently and see where we are by the end of the year. If the greater audience still isn't interested, fuck them 🤣



NathanMayberry said:


> You're comparing a set of live shows that start at 1 AM on work nights on a premium channel to one that airs taped at 10 PM on a Friday night on a free channel.


You were comparing wrestling to loads of random stuff. It's all frivolous. That was my point, really. The slot AEW is on is far from ideal btw but yeh none of the comparisons are like for like - it's just a way for fans to big up or shit on the product, depending on your motivations.



fabi1982 said:


> Of course. Everything to make sure AEW is awesome


Lol did you even read his first post I responded to? I've said above it's not a straight comparison, my point was he was making just as silly a comparison to begin with - fight fire with fire, or nonsense with nonsense 😅


----------



## omaroo

750k seems to be roughly the name for them atm and may be for some time. Not that its a bad thing.

Getting over 800k to 900k consistently will take time but will just require constant quality shows.


----------



## DaSlacker

The audience is bigger than that. It's just that many people either stream, watch via DVR or clips online. Same with WWE. The pro wrestling fanbase has certainly shrunk too. 

Understandably so. Old Kayfabe died and just got replaced with MMA stars and meta jokes. That's not to say AEW is bad - it's a pretty good modern wrestling show. Same with NXT. But apart from the cinematic stuff, indie show spotfests on national TV and Orange Cassidy style parodic surrealism it's... old hat. Still, most o f those things have been done in one way or another in the WWE or TNA since the late 90's. It doesn't address the elephants in the room - lack of believability and lack of originality.


----------



## 304418

Total viewers was one of the highest of 2021 for AEW, being beaten only by the likes of a tv special (Beach Break) or a celebrity appearance (Shaq). And the demo for this episode was still higher than anything NXT has done in the past year, including last night.

Not going to hide behind the St. Patrick’s Day excuse or that it was taped for those expecting a higher rating. They did a good job last night. I’m happy with the rating.


----------



## .christopher.

People acting like they deserve more viewers, lol.

The show is insulting to people who like wrestling. This 700k is their audience. It won't grow because they only cater to the fans who want to be in on the joke, and that isn't a lot of people.

They had a chance to provide a proper alternative to WWEs shit and blew it.


----------



## yeahright2

Ratings are in and our game results are published

AEW Ratings prediction game

@Chan Hung came pretty close, but that rating was way lower than I expected.. I guess Revolution hit them hard


----------



## Mr316

I didn’t watch last night. Not one single second. Some people are slowly giving up. What happened to WWE in the last few years is happening to AEW after just one year and a half.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Mr316 said:


> I didn’t watch last night. Not one single second. Some people are slowly giving up. What happened to WWE in the last few years is happening to AEW after just one year and a half.


It was one of the best shows they've done irrespective of ratings


----------



## Geeee

I don't know why we are writing eulogies or making excuses. This seems like a pretty bang on average number for Dynamite? I guess this is the confirmation bias thread?


----------



## The XL 2

AEW and NXT are losing popularity at this point.

This is the kind of shit that happens when you over promise and under deliver. How many people bought their PPV either for the main event or to see the big reveal that was hyped over and over? Well, you got Christian and a sprinkler "explosion"

Don't make crazy claims you can't back up. Also, put Cody and Omega in the midcard and use the Bucks as job guys on dark. Push and hire actual talent.


----------



## ProjectGargano

AEW Dark: Elevation episode has 730k views right now on Youtube. I think is pretty good.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Pentagon Senior said:


> You were comparing wrestling to loads of random stuff. It's all frivolous. That was my point, really. The slot AEW is on is far from ideal btw but yeh none of the comparisons are like for like - it's just a way for fans to big up or shit on the product, depending on your motivations.


I compared to everything else on that channel that aired that week. It was the 23rd most watched program.


----------



## NathanMayberry

ProjectGargano said:


> AEW Dark: Elevation episode has 730k views right now on Youtube. I think is pretty good.


They're paying a lot of money to get those views..


----------



## VIP86

ProjectGargano said:


> AEW Dark: Elevation episode has 730k views right now on Youtube. I think is pretty good.


completely irrelevant
how much money these 730k will generate on youtube
1000 dollars on a good day
youtube is worthless in an equation where Mid-Card wrestlers are getting paid 6 figures


----------



## ProjectGargano

VIP86 said:


> completely irrelevant
> how much money these 730k will generate on youtube
> 1000 dollars on a good day
> youtube is worthless in an equation where Mid-Card wrestlers are getting paid 6 figures


I am not talking about the money but the exposure.


----------



## Mr316

ProjectGargano said:


> I am not talking about the money but the exposure.


AEW Dark Elevation isn’t gaining any new fans. It’s the AEW die hards that are watching.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

NathanMayberry said:


> I compared to everything else on that channel that aired that week. It was the 23rd most watched program.


Ok, so what? People who watch ITV4 prefer other things to wrestling...

Have you done a similar comparison of the WWE views versus other shows on their respective channel? Not sure what your point is


----------



## Seafort

Ten days ago this forum was littered with outrage. People were essentially calling for the end of AEW. Is it not surprising that AEW has seen a ratings drop in the last two weeks.

You can’t recover trust in two weeks. That takes time and quality programming.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Mr316 said:


> AEW Dark Elevation isn’t gaining any new fans. It’s the AEW die hards that are watching.


It's nice that AEW have so many diehard fans then. MLW has only 30k.


----------



## VIP86

i don't think AEW is panicking
they're still getting their average numbers
but just not growing at all

these are their numbers in 2021 until now
6/1/2021
viewership: 662k
Demo: 0.25

13/1/2021
viewership: 762k
Demo: 0.30

20/1/2021
viewership: 854k
Demo: 0.36

27/1/2021
viewership: 734k
Demo: 0.29

3/2/2021
viewership: 844k
Demo: 0.32

10/2/2021
viewership: 741k
Demo: 0.29

17/2/2021
viewership: 747k
Demo: 0.31

24/2/2021
viewership: 831k
Demo: 0.35

3/3/2021
viewership: 934k
Demo: 0.33

10/3/2021
viewership: 743k
Demo: 0.32

17/3/2021
viewership: 768k
Demo: 0.28


----------



## Mr316

ProjectGargano said:


> It's nice that AEW have so many diehard fans then. MLW has only 30k.


Are you really comparing a show that has a primetime TV deal with TNT to low budget MLW?


----------



## ProjectGargano

Mr316 said:


> Are you really comparing a show that has a primetime TV deal with TNT to low budget MLW?


No, i am not. I am saying that those are big numbers (even if it is only the first episode). Impact wrestling with double the subscribers of AEW on youtube, rarely have a video that make more than 100k.


----------



## Mr316

ProjectGargano said:


> No, i am not. I am saying that those are big numbers (even if it is only the first episode). Impact wrestling with double the subscribers of AEW on youtube, rarely have a video that make more than 100k.


Because no one cares anymore about Impact. Impact gained their subscribers when they were on Spike.


----------



## sideon

IMO the much overhyped Wednesday night war has officially fizzled out. AEW basically sealed their fate when they decided to make Christian seem like the biggest FA in the history of sports, so unless CM Punk or Brock Lesnar walks through that entrance ramp this is their new normal. NXT has lost too many of their popular wrestlers to the main roster which doomed them, and they were never in real trouble anyway since they can just go to another night or back to the network. The ratings are showing that the overall viewership on Wednesday is slowly but surely dying off, and it wouldn't shock me if NXT winds up averaging 400k and AEW averages 500-600k.



Prosper said:


> Yeah I really hope they keep doing what they have been doing. 2021 has been awesome so far I don’t want them to change anything right now. The consistency has really been there as of late. No need to switch stuff up just because of this post PPV ratings slump.


So you don't want them to change up because you like what they're doing, but the wrestling audience as a whole could care less. Trying to please the indie/anti WWE crowd handicapped them from the start and it's only gotten worse. The ratings are terrible and Meltzer doesn't even use the DVR excuse anymore because it was faulty to begin with.


----------



## ProjectGargano

sideon said:


> IMO the much overhyped Wednesday night war has officially fizzled out. AEW basically sealed their fate when they decided to make Christian seem like the biggest FA in the history of sports, so unless CM Punk or Brock Lesnar walks through that entrance ramp this is their new normal. NXT has lost too many of their popular wrestlers to the main roster which doomed them, and they were never in real trouble anyway since they can just go to another night or back to the network. The ratings are showing that the overall viewership on Wednesday is slowly but surely dying off, and it wouldn't shock me if NXT winds up averaging 400k and AEW averages 500-600k.
> 
> 
> So you don't want them to change up because you like what they're doing, but the wrestling audience as a whole could care less. Trying to please the indie/anti WWE crowd handicapped them from the start and it's only gotten worse. The ratings are terrible and Meltzer doesn't even use the DVR excuse anymore because it was faulty to begin with.


If you look at the things, AEW is almost the same in the last 15 months (i am not saying that´s good). NXT lost like 200k from their normal.


----------



## Klitschko

Mr316 said:


> Not good. Go ahead AEW fans, keep saying they’re perfect when you know deep down it’s not even close to being the product it could of been.


I mean the last 2 weeks have been good shows. Just feels like Revolution really did hurt them. I know a lot of people were pretty pissed after the show ended.





sideon said:


> So you don't want them to change up because you like what they're doing, but the wrestling audience as a whole could care less. Trying to please the indie/anti WWE crowd handicapped them from the start and it's only gotten worse. The ratings are terrible and Meltzer doesn't even use the DVR excuse anymore because it was faulty to begin with.


I dont know what that poster will say, but I could not possibly give a smaller shit if anybody else besides me likes the show. I want it to please me. I dont care about anyone else. Also to that point. I don't care about AEW enough to make me cry if they go down because they didn't please other fans.


----------



## iarwain

omaroo said:


> 750k seems to be roughly the name for them atm and may be for some time. Not that its a bad thing.
> Getting over 800k to 900k consistently will take time but will just require constant quality shows.


NXT is allegedly going to Tuesdays next month, so it will be interesting to see how many viewers AEW will be able to pick up without any direct pro wrestling competition.


----------



## Randy Lahey

IMO, the rating didn't pop because most casuals don't know what an "unsanctioned lights out" match really means. Now, after seeing what Britt/Rosa did in that match, the NEXT time AEW advertises a Lights Out match that will have the casuals tuning in and the rating will pop.

I expect when NXT moves, that AEW will be doing a consistent 950K - 1.1 mils. If they keep putting out shows like last night, their ratings will get better. 

As I've always said, maintaining your audience over the last year is a huge win. Every sport is way down, and Raw's down 20-25% every year. Raw can't even pull 2 mils on RTWM. Smackdown has trouble getting 2mils on NETWORK TV. So I think AEW is in a good spot right now. Just keep making good TV.


----------



## Hephaesteus

Randy Lahey said:


> IMO, the rating didn't pop because most casuals don't know what an "unsanctioned lights out" match really means. Now, after seeing what Britt/Rosa did in that match, the NEXT time AEW advertises a Lights Out match that will have the casuals tuning in and the rating will pop.
> 
> I expect when NXT moves, that AEW will be doing a consistent 950K - 1.1 mils. If they keep putting out shows like last night, their ratings will get better.
> 
> As I've always said, maintaining your audience over the last year is a huge win. Every sport is way down, and Raw's down 20-25% every year. Raw can't even pull 2 mils on RTWM. Smackdown has trouble getting 2mils on NETWORK TV. So I think AEW is in a good spot right now. Just keep making good TV.


Why wouldnt casuals know that when aew has done quite a few unsanctioned matches at this point. If anything, AEWs done way too many unsanctioned matches and its lost its novelty at this point.


----------



## The Wood

Alright_Mate said:


> You know me Wood, I like to get critical when AEW is concerned.
> 
> But last night’s show was actually decent, plenty of positives from it, many on here expected in the 800’s, I thought it would produce a similar number as well, it was an episode that warranted much more than 768k, the bump from last week is minuscule and piss poor.
> 
> But that’s what happens when your promotion produces a poor PPV and lacks consistency, it could take a little while for them to hit 800k + consistently again, and when they do I guarantee you won’t be seen in this thread 😜


Reasonable post until the end. I don’t know why I wouldn’t be in here if they ever get 800k again (if). I was here unimpressed when they were.


----------



## MoxAsylum

Mister Sinister said:


> They have poopooed the audience. The creative needs to be overhauled. The booking remains the same, and the audience has given up. They should be building an audience every week instead of chasing them away by the tens of thousands and calling them marks on social media.
> 
> -Long pointless showcasing matches on tv
> -More concern for a 15 minute Buck match than giving the follow-up on the ppv results
> -Too many factions
> -Bad main event booking (they should have had a big 3v3 with Mox, Sting and Christian vs Omega, PAC and Pentagon)
> -Garbage wrestling continues to drown their ratings with families and sports audiences
> -No heat in any storylines
> -TNT title hardly ever defended
> -Suicide dive spamming
> -Finisher spamming
> -World champ sandwiched in odd quarter hours instead of the prime spots
> -Commentary can't be heard half the time
> -It's a WWE ring and so the general audience changes the channel because they hate WWE, and the WWE fans don't watch because they are WWE fans and know it's not WWE
> -Too few ppvs
> -Nothing unexpected ever happens
> -Story doesn't unfold during the episodes (changes to booking, worked injuries, backstage attacks, additional tag team members added to a match)
> -No authority character to direct the show on air


Agreed, I don't really have interest in watching Dynamite live anymore either


----------



## thorn123

As I predicted a rubbish rating for a quality episode.

when you look at raw and dynamite there is an inverse relationship between quality of wrestling and viewership of wrestling.


----------



## Jaxon

genuine question, people say that they want the audience to grow but the last 2 weeks have been low, 

why do people in here keep saying 'just keep doing what there doing' BUT its not working because they have tried a lot to grow the audience but people just don't seem interested?


----------



## 3venflow

Main event did very well, pulling back viewers and tripling NXT in the key demo. Moxley/Eddie vs. Good Brothers also did very well. That Q7 drop was very sharp by AEW's standards.

Q1: 843k / 388k (Cody vs Penta)
Q2: 797k / 379k (end of Cody vs Penta , Bucks/Callis promo, Jade squash, start of the Pinnacle promo)
Q3: 735k / 343k (Pinnacle promo, start of the 10 man tag)
Q4: 741k / 352k (end of the 10 man tag, Moxley and Eddie promo)
Q5: 835k / 382k (Moxley/Eddie vs good brothers and the post match with Kenny omega)
Q6: 716k/ 340k (Sting interview, start of Fenix match)
Q7: 676k / 328k (end of Fenix match, a short Miro promo)
Q8: 795k / 387k (Britt Baker vs Thunder rosa match)

From Reddit:

The Elite segments seem to draw well. Having the only 2 above 800k segments( with some minute by minute peaks being over 900k according to metlzer) p

Cody match- Had the peak viewership and Peak women 18-49

Omega/ GB and Mox and Eddie segment- Peak Women 18-34

AEW also had an increase of 40% in 12-17 but down in older demos such as 35-49 which cause the decrease in total 18-49

Rosa vs. Baker gained 11,000 men 18-34, 35,000 men 35-49, 2,000 women 18-34 and 11,000 women 35-49.

The final quarter saw AEW with Baker vs. Rosa gain 119,000 viewers and 59,000 in 18-49. It was also AEW’s peak in men 18-49.


----------



## Impermanence

Mr316 said:


> I didn’t watch last night. Not one single second. Some people are slowly giving up. What happened to WWE in the last few years is happening to AEW after just one year and a half.


I watched Dynamite and it's sad to see PAC being just someone who accompanies Ray Fenix to the ring? So much potential wasted. He even seems kind of sad or just there. 

At least in the WWE he was doing well as the cruiserweight champion until they Enzo'd him. 

PAC and Hangman Page two of my favorites seemed like STARS in October 2019 and now they're relegated to near-obscurity. 

Darby Allin seems like a great character but I just can't get invested in a midcard champion who is 150 pounds and built like a woman/boy. That TNT champion spot should have gone to someone serious and credible like Brian Cage, Hangman Page or PAC.. But notice how all of them are practically being WASTED. (I have no idea why Tony Khan keeps signing more and more guys like Ethan Page when he's not even using the aforementioned talent meaningfully)

I like Christian but I have zero interest in watching a 47 year old inserted straight into the world title feud. I also don't buy Omega as a world champion and the whole AEW/Impact thing. 

Chris Jericho/Inner Circle have long been a joke and MJF while fiery and good on the mic hasn't done shit. The whole Faction War thing is random, nonsensical and contrived(they already did Inner Circle vs Elite). 

So after all that, what's left to invest in? I have zero interest in watching random talent in singles matches(which keep 
changing every week so most of the 
wrestlers appear once every few weeks and just disappear) a big tag match with Matt Hardy, Jurassic Express, Marko Stunt, and women's wrestling. 

So your assessment is correct. I gave up on Raw after 15-20 years but Dynamite manages to drive people away within a year itself. 

Had they chosen to build the company around a few great workers with great look and character.. Like PAC, Pentagon Jr, Hangman Page, Brian Cage...booked and written storylines that make sense, and worked on a serious presentation, They'd have had more loyal fans and viewers including myself.


----------



## Geeee

Awesome that the ladies got a big jump in ratings for their match. They definitely deserved it!

Actually, I love that the 10-man tag lost a bunch of viewers and the women gained a bunch. If the result is we one less 10-man tag clusterfuck and one more women's segment per Dynamite, that's a big improvement IMO


----------



## Impermanence

Geeee said:


> Awesome that the ladies got a big jump in ratings for their match. They definitely deserved it!
> 
> Actually, I love that the 10-man tag lost a bunch of viewers and the women gained a bunch. If the result is we one less 10-man tag clusterfuck and one more women's segment per Dynamite, that's a big improvement IMO


That's not an improvement if a segment of casual fans, may be even a majority are not a fan of even 5 minutes of women's wrestling let alone 20 minutes of it. So in the end they would skip both the clusterfuck tag match as well as the women's match and the more of this stuff they push the more unwatchable Dynamite becomes. 

That is why I don't torrent or YouTube download(the WWE upload Raw and Smackown episodes for people in the UK/Europe) full episodes of Raw because 90% of the show is sheer garbage. I wouldn't even wanna waste time forwarding through so much of garbage including women's wrestling. May be years later I might check those on the WWE Network. 

People want excitement, hot women, fast-paced action (like wcw cruiserweights), meaningful stories, big stars in the mainevents, talk show segments that entertain, and some good wrestling. 

If Dynamite was presented as a serious show and built around PAC, Brian Cage, Hangman Page, Moxley, Miro and Kenny Omega in the main event and serious tag teams like FTR, as well as a cruiserweight division featuring Ray fenix and Darby Allin, had hot women(and by hot I mean ALLIE) in sleazy angles.. They'd be the best show on TV Period. They're not even the best wrestling show because Smackdown is(and even Smackdown could be better). 

No new fans are gonna be drawn, intrigued or hooked to a show where one minute they see Jon Moxley and the next minute they see Marko Stunt Jurassic Express and the next Brandi Rhodes and the next cougar Vicki Guerrero with Nyla Rose and the next minute it's some goofy segment involving orange Cassidy, Inner circle or Miro.


----------



## Smark1995

Impermanence said:


> That's not an improvement if a segment of casual fans, may be even a majority are not a fan of even 5 minutes of women's wrestling let alone 20 minutes of it. So in the end they would skip both the clusterfuck tag match as well as the women's match and the more of this stuff they push the more unwatchable Dynamite becomes.
> 
> That is why I don't torrent or YouTube download(the WWE upload Raw and Smackown episodes for people in the UK/Europe) full episodes of Raw because 90% of the show is sheer garbage. I wouldn't even wanna waste time forwarding through so much of garbage including women's wrestling. May be years later I might check those on the WWE Network.
> 
> People want excitement, hot women, fast-paced action (like wcw cruiserweights), meaningful stories, big stars in the mainevents, talk show segments that entertain, and some good wrestling.
> 
> If Dynamite was presented as a serious show and built around PAC, Brian Cage, Hangman Page, Moxley, Miro and Kenny Omega in the main event and serious tag teams like FTR, as well as a cruiserweight division featuring Ray fenix and Darby Allin, had hot women(and by hot I mean ALLIE) in sleazy angles.. They'd be the best show on TV Period. They're not even the best wrestling show because Smackdown is(and even Smackdown could be better).
> 
> No new fans are gonna be drawn, intrigued or hooked to a show where one minute they see Jon Moxley and the next minute they see Marko Stunt Jurassic Express and the next Brandi Rhodes and the next cougar Vicki Guerrero with Nyla Rose and the next minute it's some goofy segment involving orange Cassidy, Inner circle or Miro.


What's wrong with Moxley?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Looking at those quarters, looks like Pinnacle promo didn’t help much in either quarter it was in... but not sure how big of a part it was in either one. Sting promo also seemed to lose a ton.

Seems like the bigger matches of the show held things together here.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Klitschko said:


> I dont know what that poster will say, but I could not possibly give a smaller shit if anybody else besides me likes the show. I want it to please me. I dont care about anyone else. Also to that point. I don't care about AEW enough to make me cry if they go down because they didn't please other fans.


This is the issue that defines a real fan. I care if they thrive or die. If they die, there is no alternative to WWE. They have to reach beyond to families and sports viewers and conservatives. Making a political activist wrestling show cuts off half your audience at the door.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

As normal, promos lose the viewers

but you need them to build stories - the ever-issue


----------



## Impermanence

Smark1995 said:


> What's wrong with Moxley?


Nothings wrong with Moxley. I meant.. If one minute they see a top guy like Moxley and the next minute some goofy shit or a tag match involving a Dinosaur and Marko Stunt, how is a casual fan or someone checking out Dynamite for the first time to react or relate or what are they gonna base their judgement of the show on?

A wrestling show needs to have 1)at least 80% solid content and 20% filler, 2) feature the same set of stars and wrestlers as in focus on pushing and booking select wrestlers week after week and 3) have an easily recognizable or relatable format(Top star/maineventers open the show to set up the main event, a cruiserweight singles match, a tag team match, a talk segment or angle, another match, and finally main event.. With backstage segments/interview thrown in between) . 

Dynamite is :-

1) 50% filler content on an average week
For example this week's episode had Jade Cargill, A Dark Order skit, 10 man tag match consisting of lower carders and a 20 minute women's match.. Making it a whole lot of FILLER. A casual fan would see all that and think "not worth my time" And move on. Or decide to stick to YouTube clips. 

2) every week there are random guys and matches only for those guys to not appear for weeks or months after that (when did Hangman Page or PAC wrestle last on dynamite, for example?)

3)No proper format of the show.

For example this last Dynamite opened with Cody vs Penta, but should've opened with MJF to start the show with a BANG, then the Cody/Penta match and angle, and the main event should have been Moxley/Kingston match and Kenny Omega segment. 

Imagine a 1998 Raw beginning with Billy Gunn vs D'lo brown for the IC title, a 15 minute tag team match featuring the Oddities(that's exactly what marko stunt, bear country and the dinosaur guy are), an Austin and Vince segment in the middle, some filler content, and a women's main event. That's how Dynamite is formatted. 

The women's match should have gotten 8 minutes AT BEST and placed somewhere in the middle. Casual fans and horny teenagers or adult males(the 18-34 demographic) don't give a damn about women's wrestling ESPECIALLY not 20 minutes of it. Sheer waste of TV time and resources. That's time that could be used to build male talent like Brian Cage, Hangman Page, Miro and PAC to name a few.. You know.. Future maineventers or upper midcarders.

If women's wrestling was such a draw Nxt would be getting 1 million viewers and winning the demo war, considering the sheer quantity and TV time of women's wrestling they shove down everybody's throats. 

May be Tony Khan is never gonna learn and try to be everything at once and cater to a bunch of niche audience until it dwindles further and further.


----------



## Not Lying

Moxley is still AEW's biggest draw, and if they should promote him more in main events I'm sure they can get back to those 800s. Very impressive jump for Q5.


----------



## fabi1982

3venflow said:


> Main event did very well, pulling back viewers and tripling NXT in the key demo. Moxley/Eddie vs. Good Brothers also did very well. That Q7 drop was very sharp by AEW's standards.
> 
> Q1: 843k / 388k (Cody vs Penta)
> Q2: 797k / 379k (end of Cody vs Penta , Bucks/Callis promo, Jade squash, start of the Pinnacle promo)
> Q3: 735k / 343k (Pinnacle promo, start of the 10 man tag)
> Q4: 741k / 352k (end of the 10 man tag, Moxley and Eddie promo)
> Q5: 835k / 382k (Moxley/Eddie vs good brothers and the post match with Kenny omega)
> Q6: 716k/ 340k (Sting interview, start of Fenix match)
> Q7: 676k / 328k (end of Fenix match, a short Miro promo)
> Q8: 795k / 387k (Britt Baker vs Thunder rosa match)
> 
> From Reddit:
> 
> The Elite segments seem to draw well. Having the only 2 above 800k segments( with some minute by minute peaks being over 900k according to metlzer) p
> 
> Cody match- Had the peak viewership and Peak women 18-49
> 
> Omega/ GB and Mox and Eddie segment- Peak Women 18-34
> 
> AEW also had an increase of 40% in 12-17 but down in older demos such as 35-49 which cause the decrease in total 18-49
> 
> Rosa vs. Baker gained 11,000 men 18-34, 35,000 men 35-49, 2,000 women 18-34 and 11,000 women 35-49.
> 
> The final quarter saw AEW with Baker vs. Rosa gain 119,000 viewers and 59,000 in 18-49. It was also AEW’s peak in men 18-49.


So basically the channel switcher quarters where the highest, shocking. Cody knows why he puts him in these. Sting doesnt seem to draw any interest, same as Miro. Your first ever female main event doesnt outdraw Cody/Penta, damn, they deserve better. And funny that we are talking 12-17 ratings now. Talking about reaching...Not you, but the general people interested in seeing good news for AEW ratings despite them being just mediocre.


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> Main event did very well, pulling back viewers and tripling NXT in the key demo. Moxley/Eddie vs. Good Brothers also did very well. That Q7 drop was very sharp by AEW's standards.
> 
> Q1: 843k / 388k (Cody vs Penta)
> Q2: 797k / 379k (end of Cody vs Penta , Bucks/Callis promo, Jade squash, start of the Pinnacle promo)
> Q3: 735k / 343k (Pinnacle promo, start of the 10 man tag)
> Q4: 741k / 352k (end of the 10 man tag, Moxley and Eddie promo)
> *Q5: 835k / 382k (Moxley/Eddie vs good brothers and the post match with Kenny omega)
> Q6: 716k/ 340k (Sting interview, start of Fenix match)
> Q7: 676k / 328k (end of Fenix match, a short Miro promo)
> Q8: 795k / 387k (Britt Baker vs Thunder rosa match)*


Look at Fenix dropping ratings


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> Ok, so what? People who watch ITV4 prefer other things to wrestling...
> 
> Have you done a similar comparison of the WWE views versus other shows on their respective channel? Not sure what your point is


Why does everyone feel the need to throw something irrelevant into the conversation to detract from AEW? WWE’s performance means nothing here. The claim was that AEW’s ratings are really good in the UK. They’re not _that_ good if they’re #23 though. 



Seafort said:


> Ten days ago this forum was littered with outrage. People were essentially calling for the end of AEW. Is it not surprising that AEW has seen a ratings drop in the last two weeks.
> 
> You can’t recover trust in two weeks. That takes time and quality programming.


Whoa, whoa, whoa — stop with the “AEW is dead” projections there, pal. 



ProjectGargano said:


> It's nice that AEW have so many diehard fans then. MLW has only 30k.


What does MLW have to do with anything?



#BadNewsSanta said:


> Looking at those quarters, looks like Pinnacle promo didn’t help much in either quarter it was in... but not sure how big of a part it was in either one. Sting promo also seemed to lose a ton.
> 
> Seems like the bigger matches of the show held things together here.


Multiple reasons for that. AEW has turned MJF into a joke. They’ve also conditioned their fans to not like professional wrestling. “Good” content would actually turn away a lot of the fan-base.


----------



## VIP86

they should have put Jon Moxley in the main event

just a friendly reminder to people who say that the women main event did good ratings
or that women wrestling is a "draw"

this first Dynamite episode with a women main event in the history of the company did the second lowest demo in 2021 after january 6 episode
and that one was against heavy news coverage (Dynamite was number 48 that night)

so in reality if january 6 episode wasn't affected by the news
this women main event episode would have been the lowest Demo in 2021

anybody still thinks that women wrestling is a "draw" ?


----------



## Wolf Mark

DaSlacker said:


> The audience is bigger than that. It's just that many people either stream, watch via DVR or clips online. Same with WWE. The pro wrestling fanbase has certainly shrunk too.
> 
> Understandably so. Old Kayfabe died and just got replaced with MMA stars and meta jokes. That's not to say AEW is bad - it's a pretty good modern wrestling show. Same with NXT. But apart from the cinematic stuff, indie show spotfests on national TV and Orange Cassidy style parodic surrealism it's... old hat. Still, most o f those things have been done in one way or another in the WWE or TNA since the late 90's. It doesn't address the elephants in the room - lack of believability and lack of originality.


Exactly they lack essentialy elements that should be on opposite ends: lack of realism and lack of creativity. Cause they could drop the pretense of realism/believability and go nuts and be creative as Hell but it is not the case, they lack both. And that should be adressed in the AEW offices.


----------



## Mister Sinister

You can do women in the main event, but there has to be a real draw for it. They don't have a program or the characters that can make a main event women's division. My whole angle for the division would be a year-long program between Blanchard and Kong. You have a young character who is the undeniable present of women's wrestling, and you have a living legend of women's wrestling passing the torch. It's archetype stuff. It's Hogan and Andre.

They just came off this main event and they haven't set up the new program with Omega? Is it Christian? Is it Mox? The main event should have been set up last week for a big 3v3 cross-feud main event this week or next week. You use the on-screen boss to create a match that otherwise would not happen because the guys aren't on the same team, and you get to progress multiple angles at once (Mox, Christian and Cody vs Omega, Miro and Penta).

Maybe the direction to go is to have Christian and Mox implode (setting up Mox vs Christian at the PPV), and instead of Christian vs Omega, we see Cody vs Omega (Elites vs Super Elites).


----------



## Pablo Escobar

Why does any semi-negative AEW thread get closed? 

I wanted to chime in on the thread about AEW potentially loosing money. As others have mentioned it's all speculation at this point. Paying that roster, i imagine is a pretty hefty bill. I could have sworn TK say a few weeks back it cost millions to produce Dynamite/AEW for a week. Well... based on their TV deal with TNT and their PPV numbers; i wouldn't be surprised if they weren't making a huge profit. Heading into the pandemic; most all companies are taking the L. I give AEW for having the balls to spend quite a bit during this time. I'm willing to bet they thought they would be doing live tours at the end of 2020, as they've just been pushing out live events out of state every few months. Daly's place is saving them. I still feel AEW needs those live crowds; and they've been rushing to bring them back. (safe or unsafe) 

All that being said, AEW will survive as long as the Kahn family wants it to. If it looses it's TV deal; they'll be in hot water for sure. Having bloodbaths on TNT like the britt baker match doesn't help advertisers. i really feel like the pandemic hit AEW at the worst time; and we'll see how they look coming out of it. If they lose the TNT deal, do they close up shop? I dont know. Maybe their deal with TNT; is so small; TNT will keep them around, maybe move the timeslot. I assume ratings would need to tank a bit more; before their next TV renewal discussions for them to alter the deal.


----------



## 304418

VIP86 said:


> they should have put Jon Moxley in the main event
> 
> just a friendly reminder to people who say that the women main event did good ratings
> or that women wrestling is a "draw"
> 
> this first Dynamite episode with a women main event in the history of the company did the second lowest demo in 2021 after january 6 episode
> and that one was against heavy news coverage (Dynamite was number 48 that night)
> 
> so in reality if january 6 episode wasn't affected by the news
> this women main event episode would have been the lowest Demo in 2021
> 
> anybody still thinks that women wrestling is a "draw" ?


That more viewers preferred to watch this match over the 10 man tag and Fenix vs jobber entrance Angelico suggests that it not the least interesting thing AEW aired that night. And AEW had two women's matches that night too. AEW would have benefited from cutting the filler to develop and progress various characters on their show.

AEW needed to follow through on this, after how they hyped themselves as being a good for women’s wrestling when they first started during this Women’s Evolution era, and then proceeding to have the worst women’s division next to ROH. Now that the women’s division shows signs of improving in ring quality, and this women’s main event milestone has been reached, everyone can move on to making a more compelling show across the board.

Fans want bigger names from WWE. AEW isn’t standing a chance at attracting the Four Horsewomen or Ronda Rousey, or even Tessa Blanchard if they don`t hold this main event, since they’d likely expect to main event an AEW show at some point if they signed with AEW. You can dislike women’s wrestling and still realize that standards are changing, and it’s expected that women should be able to main event a show once in a while.


----------



## 3venflow

Every wrestling show did below average this week in total viewership, so it wasn't just AEW.

NXT did its worst viewership for over a month at 597k.

RAW dropped moderately to 1.834m, down 3% on last week.

Smackdown did under 2m for the first time since February in the overnights, averaging 1.946m for its incredibly dull Fastlane go-home show. That rating isn't final but as it stands is down 10% from last week. Neither Edge or Christian has made a positive impact on ratings from what I can ascertain.

IMPACT did 146k, like AEW slightly up from last week but down on what they were doing in February. They have announced Omega next week so will hope for a ratings bump.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Pablo Escobar said:


> Why does any semi-negative AEW thread get closed?
> 
> I wanted to chime in on the thread about AEW potentially loosing money. As others have mentioned it's all speculation at this point. Paying that roster, i imagine is a pretty hefty bill. I could have sworn TK say a few weeks back it cost millions to produce Dynamite/AEW for a week. Well... based on their TV deal with TNT and their PPV numbers; i wouldn't be surprised if they weren't making a huge profit. Heading into the pandemic; most all companies are taking the L. I give AEW for having the balls to spend quite a bit during this time. I'm willing to bet they thought they would be doing live tours at the end of 2020, as they've just been pushing out live events out of state every few months. Daly's place is saving them. I still feel AEW needs those live crowds; and they've been rushing to bring them back. (safe or unsafe)
> 
> All that being said, AEW will survive as long as the Kahn family wants it to. If it looses it's TV deal; they'll be in hot water for sure. Having bloodbaths on TNT like the britt baker match doesn't help advertisers. i really feel like the pandemic hit AEW at the worst time; and we'll see how they look coming out of it. If they lose the TNT deal, do they close up shop? I dont know. Maybe their deal with TNT; is so small; TNT will keep them around, maybe move the timeslot. I assume ratings would need to tank a bit more; before their next TV renewal discussions for them to alter the deal.


Most of them are not constructive threads...they are troll or pure hate threads.


----------



## The Wood

Women can draw and have a place in certain main events, but there are several issues.

-Wrestling fans have been conditioned over years to be disinterested in women’s wrestling.

-Sexists aren’t going to like it.

-A lot of progressives don’t like it.

There is a very sweet spot of fan that it Has easy access to. Some issues can be overcome. Others may not be.


----------



## 3venflow

In terms of winning back viewers, the women's match overdelivered. The drops from Q5 to Q6 and Q6 to Q7 (835k when Moxley/Eddie faced the Good Brothers to 676k by the end of Fenix's match) were incredibly sharp by AEW standards and left the main event in a difficult position.

676k (328k key demo) to 795k (387k in key demo) is an impressive recovery by the ladies. That's 119,000 people tuning back in with a recovery in the 18-49 demographic too.

I said in the past that AEW women's division was killing ratings and it was, but that trend seems to have changed lately with some good numbers comparative to other segments on the shows.

They also caused a major drop for NXT with Balor/Kross vs. Lorcan/Burch main event doing their worst quarter hour of 523k (rising to 787k for the overrun which shows again how being on different days will help these shows, because a lot of people turned over from AEW).


----------



## VIP86

Verbatim17 said:


> That more viewers preferred to watch this match over the 10 man tag and Fenix vs jobber entrance Angelico suggests that it not the least interesting thing AEW aired that night. And AEW had two women's matches that night too. AEW would have benefited from cutting the filler to develop and progress various characters on their show.
> 
> AEW needed to follow through on this, after how they hyped themselves as being a good for women’s wrestling when they first started during this Women’s Evolution era, and then proceeding to have the worst women’s division next to ROH. Now that the women’s division shows signs of improving in ring quality, and this women’s main event milestone has been reached, everyone can move on to making a more compelling show across the board.
> 
> Fans want bigger names from WWE. AEW isn’t standing a chance at attracting the Four Horsewomen or Ronda Rousey, or even Tessa Blanchard if they don`t hold this main event, since they’d likely expect to main event an AEW show at some point if they signed with AEW. You can dislike women’s wrestling and still realize that standards are changing, and it’s expected that women should be able to main event a show once in a while.


i don't have a problem with women’s wrestling in general
as long we don't exaggerate its appeal to wrestling fans
i've been begging AEW from the start to take the women’s division seriously
and develop characters that people care about

i only have a problem with people who like to pretend that women’s wrestling has the same appeal as the men's wrestling
because it doesn't.
or that women’s wrestling is as big of a Draw as men's wrestling
because it's not.
if people cared about women’s wrestling as much as some people like to claim 
the episode with the "historic" women's main event wouldn't have got the second lowest demo in 2021
(in reality it was the lowest Demo in 2021 if we eliminated the january 6 episode)

standards didn't change
women’s wrestling did not and will not be at the same level
standards are changing only in the minds of SJWs who want their bullshit to invade wrestling like every other form of entertainment

but i agree with you that maybe AEW needed this main event to attract some bigger names to sign
just don't make it a regular thing, 1 time is more than enough


----------



## The Wood

Women can be draws, but not all women are draws. And you do have to factor in the perve factor.


----------



## Klitschko

Well WWE Fastlane just ended. Never in my life thought I would say this, but it turned out to be a better and more fun show then Revolution was. About 40 bucks cheaper too.


----------



## One Shed

Klitschko said:


> Well WWE Fastlane just ended. Never in my life thought I would say this, but it turned out to be a better and more fun show then Revolution was. About 40 bucks cheaper too.


What are you drinking? I want to try some.


----------



## Klitschko

Two Sheds said:


> What are you drinking? I want to try some.


No bro, seriously. Roman and Daniel Bryan alone was better then anything that happened on Revolution. On top of that Mcintyre/Sheamus turned out to be a great no holds barred match surprisingly. Both over the 4 star mark if you're into ratings. Other then that, a solid Rollins/Nakamura match and everything else on the card was like 5-10 minutes long max. They didn't try to have everyone put on an epic 15-20 min long match like at Revolution.


----------



## One Shed

Klitschko said:


> No bro, seriously. Roman and Daniel Bryan alone was better then anything that happened on Revolution. On top of that Mcintyre/Sheamus turned out to be a great no holds barred match surprisingly. Both over the 4 star mark if you're into ratings. Other then that, a solid Rollins/Nakamura match and everything else on the card was like 5-10 minutes long max. They didn't try to have everyone put on an epic 15-20 min long match like at Revolution.


I still need to watch it (if I dare) but I read the Orton stuff and hated myself. I did hear Drew/Sheamus was good and Roman/Bryan was until the ending.


----------



## Klitschko

Two Sheds said:


> I still need to watch it (if I dare) but I read the Orton stuff and hated myself. I did hear Drew/Sheamus was good and Roman/Bryan was until the ending.


Yea, even the people in the Fastlane discussion are overall praising it. Not a great show by any means, but its a lot better received then Revolution was. 

Also the Orton/Alexa/Fiend stuff was like 4 minutes long so nothing long enough to piss you off you know? Fiend looked pretty cool at least.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Two Sheds said:


> I still need to watch it (if I dare) but I read the Orton stuff and hated myself. I did hear Drew/Sheamus was good and Roman/Bryan was until the ending.


Watch Drew/Sheamus for a good modern day WWE street fight and brawl, and because it's always fun to watch these two beat the hell out of each other. 

Roman/Bryan was fantastic, and their dynamic was damn good together as Bryan was plenty technical as he has been. The ending was convoluted, but did make sense regarding future plans (I won't spoil that for ya).

I thought there was a lot more I enjoyed off Revolution though, as Fastlane was completely forgettable outside of those two matches.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Klitschko said:


> Well WWE Fastlane just ended. Never in my life thought I would say this, but it turned out to be a better and more fun show then Revolution was. About 40 bucks cheaper too.


congrats, i guess?


----------



## The Wood

The WWE producing content better than AEW for much cheaper is going to prove a massive problem for them. Roman/Bryan and Drew/Sheamus are getting reviews that put them ahead of anything at Revolution. Rollins/Nakamura was a bonus too, and Big E/Apollo Crews was fine. Randy Orton/Alexa/Bray Wyatt is fucking stupid, but not any more so than a lot of what AEW puts forward. You’re not being run off by one to find another.


----------



## .christopher.

Honestly, I'd rather watch AEWs clown show than see Bryan buried by Reigns for the umpteenth time.


----------



## Impermanence

Klitschko said:


> No bro, seriously. Roman and Daniel Bryan alone was better then anything that happened on Revolution. On top of that Mcintyre/Sheamus turned out to be a great no holds barred match surprisingly. Both over the 4 star mark if you're into ratings. Other then that, a solid Rollins/Nakamura match and everything else on the card was like 5-10 minutes long max. They didn't try to have everyone put on an epic 15-20 min long match like at Revolution.


Damn Rollins vs Nakamura happened? Any card that involves Roman vs Bryan, Rollins vs Nakamura and Sheamus vs Drew Mcintyre is a Triple mainevent card. Those three matches alone makes this an awesome event.


----------



## Aedubya

What have the last 3 posts got to do with this thread?


----------



## Impermanence

Aedubya said:


> What have the last 3 posts got to do with this thread?


They have everything to do with AEW. They have lessons for that amateur Tony Khan on how to not book shows/ppvs, how to not overhype matches when you're not gonna deliver, and how a stipulation like "no holds barred/last man standing/falls count anywhere" can make a match much more entertaining than that barbed wire BS. These posts are simply pointing out that when it comes to Fastlane the WWE delivered without much hype but when it came to Revolution all they did was HYPE whether it was concerning the "major signing" Or the barbed wire explosive BS.


----------



## The Wood

Aedubya said:


> What have the last 3 posts got to do with this thread?


Because this is the PPV thread, and pointing out the factors that might impede AEW’s PPV business makes sense.


----------



## La Parka

I was incredibly bored by fast lane so I’d have to disagree with those who preferred it to revolution.

Revolution was a bad ppv but it was at least funny at the end.

I guess I prefer “the room” to a very dull and well produced movie.

The problem is, you really only want to watch the room once unless you’re intoxicated and having a laugh so I don’t know how many people will be returning for AEW ppvs, especially since they’re incredibly overpriced.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Impermanence said:


> They have everything to do with AEW. They have lessons for that amateur Tony Khan on how to not book shows/ppvs, how to not overhype matches when you're not gonna deliver, and how a stipulation like "no holds barred/last man standing/falls count anywhere" can make a match much more entertaining than that barbed wire BS. These posts are simply pointing out that when it comes to Fastlane the WWE delivered without much hype but when it came to Revolution all they did was HYPE whether it was concerning the "major signing" Or the barbed wire explosive BS.


g8 b8 m8


----------



## CM Buck

Impermanence said:


> They have everything to do with AEW. They have lessons for that amateur Tony Khan on how to not book shows/ppvs, how to not overhype matches when you're not gonna deliver, and how a stipulation like "no holds barred/last man standing/falls count anywhere" can make a match much more entertaining than that barbed wire BS. These posts are simply pointing out that when it comes to Fastlane the WWE delivered without much hype but when it came to Revolution all they did was HYPE whether it was concerning the "major signing" Or the barbed wire explosive BS.


They have fuck all to do with aew. This is bait. If you want to discuss wwe then do it there. I will not have a mark war in this section. Its already migraine inducing enough


----------



## Impermanence

Firefromthegods said:


> They have fuck all to do with aew. This is bait. If you want to discuss wwe then do it there. I will not have a mark war in this section. Its already migraine inducing enough


Well then you should tell that to the poster above who originally mentioned Fastlane because I just happened to respond to posters above me so I guess I'm the bait-ee and not the bait-er.


----------



## CM Buck

Impermanence said:


> Well then you should tell that to the poster above who originally mentioned Fastlane because I just happened to respond to posters above me so I guess I'm the bait-ee and not the bait-er.


Fair. 

ENOUGH DISCUSSING FASTLANE. THIS IS AEW. UNLESS THERE'S A SECRET AEW EVENT IM UNAWARE OF THERES NO REASON IT SHOULD BE IN HERE. 

until both companies run competing ppvs with each other and actually go to war we aren't playing whose companies penis is bigger. They are both adequately sized and get the job done for someone


----------



## Impermanence

Firefromthegods said:


> Fair.
> 
> ENOUGH DISCUSSING FASTLANE. THIS IS AEW. UNLESS THERE'S A SECRET AEW EVENT IM UNAWARE OF THERES NO REASON IT SHOULD BE IN HERE.
> 
> until both companies run competing ppvs with each other and actually go to war we aren't playing whose companies penis is bigger. They are both adequately sized and get the job done for someone


You say fair and then start yelling with CAPS LOCK AGAIN at the wrong poster? Like I said @Klitschko is the poster who brought up Fastlane so yell at them.


----------



## CM Buck

Impermanence said:


> You say fair and then start yelling with CAPS LOCK AGAIN at the wrong poster? Like I said @Klitschko is the poster who brought up Fastlane so yell at them.


I'm not yelling at you dude. I'm using caps for emphasis and so my post stands out. Relax


----------



## Impermanence

Firefromthegods said:


> I'm not yelling at you dude. I'm using caps for emphasis and so my post stands out. Relax


Lol alright.


----------



## CM Buck

Impermanence said:


> Lol alright.


You didn't call me the sheriff of Nottingham or some other form of draconian character. You have to be really annoying for me to be mean to you. You're like a 1 on the fire up fire scale


----------



## Impermanence

Firefromthegods said:


> You didn't call me the sheriff of Nottingham or some other form of draconian character. You have to be really annoying for me to be mean to you. You're like a 1 on the fire up fire scale


Lol thanks.


----------



## NathanMayberry

So there’s no mention here of the fact that a Kenny Omega advertised Impact appearance drew the lowest viewership of 2021? 

When can the discussions of Kenny Omega not being a draw begin? They need to get the title off of him. 

He’s the only world champion that I can remember that has killed ratings for two promotions 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## .christopher.

NathanMayberry said:


> So there’s no mention here of the fact that a Kenny Omega advertised Impact appearance drew the lowest viewership of 2021?
> 
> When can the discussions of Kenny Omega not being a draw begin? They need to get the title off of him.
> 
> He’s the only world champion that I can remember that has killed ratings for two promotions
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Really?! I didn't think TNAs ratings could get worse. That's really impressive.

Then again, it's no surprise. Kenny Omega is revolting to look at. I hadn't seen him before AEW and, after seeing this clown, I couldn't believe this was who people were claiming to be a potential star. A better worker than Daniel Bryan, they said.

He's dogshit.


----------



## Klitschko

.christopher. said:


> Really?! I didn't think TNAs ratings could get worse. That's really impressive.
> 
> Then again, it's no surprise. Kenny Omega is revolting to look at. I hadn't seen him before AEW and, after seeing this clown, I couldn't believe this was who people were claiming to be a potential star. A better worker than Daniel Bryan, they said.
> 
> He's dogshit.


Poor man's version of Seth Rollins at this point. Not surprised at all that he is the lowest drawing world champion in AEW history.


----------



## La Parka

NathanMayberry said:


> So there’s no mention here of the fact that a Kenny Omega advertised Impact appearance drew the lowest viewership of 2021?
> 
> When can the discussions of Kenny Omega not being a draw begin? They need to get the title off of him.
> 
> He’s the only world champion that I can remember that has killed ratings for two promotions
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No one outside of the most die hard of fans cared about “the forbidden door” nonsense.

AEW completely killed any interest people had in Omega and the world title when they attached him to every company outside of their own and now have him frolicking around with WWE rejects and doing 30 year old hand gestures (that were used by a more popular group of people) with their tag team champions.


----------



## 3venflow

Klitschko said:


> Not surprised at all that he is the lowest drawing world champion in AEW history.


He isn't though, at least not in a way that can be quantified right now.

AEW did under 700,000 seven times while Mox was champion. That hasn't happened during Omega's reign. They also did their best PPV buyrate for Omega vs. Moxley.

But you could say that the pandemic played a part in that. There are always variables to consider, but it's really hard to say. Even Kenny's early weeks as champion was hurt by the events in America that hit TV ratings.

I would say for AEW, like WWE, it lives or dies by its brand rather than any individuals right now. There are no mega-stars who can carry everything on their backs.

Not going to argue the Rollins vs. Omega thing. All I'll say is Omega's body of work impresses me much more than Rollins/Tyler Black, especially in New Japan. Omega is one of the few guys who could work America one week, Mexico the next, and then Japan and integrate seamlessly into the wrestling culture and main event effectively. But arguing the quality of the wrestler is always a dead end.


----------



## Not Lying

3venflow said:


> He isn't though, at least not in a way that can be quantified right now.
> 
> *AEW did under 700,000 seven times while Mox was champion. *That hasn't happened during Omega's reign. They also did their best PPV buyrate for Omega vs. Moxley.
> 
> =wrestling culture and main event effectively. But arguing the quality of the wrestler is always a dead end.


Moxley segments that weren't 2min in Q7 usually always drew 800K+, his advertised title matches never drew less than 800K.
Kenny doesn't seem to crack that.


----------



## The Wood

Oh wow, if the Kenny Omega/TNA thing is true. I wouldn’t be surprised, but it’s pretty telling.


----------



## Klitschko

Show last night deserves 500k. But in the end it will be the same 700k that we always get.


----------



## Mr316

NathanMayberry said:


> So there’s no mention here of the fact that a Kenny Omega advertised Impact appearance drew the lowest viewership of 2021?
> 
> When can the discussions of Kenny Omega not being a draw begin? They need to get the title off of him.
> 
> He’s the only world champion that I can remember that has killed ratings for two promotions
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I’m not gonna blame Kenny. I just think no one cares about Impact. Still blows my mind that they’re working with this dead company.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Klitschko said:


> Show last night deserves 500k. But in the end it will be the same 700k that we always get.


What show deserves more than AEW then?


----------



## Klitschko

ProjectGargano said:


> What show deserves more than AEW then?


Smackdown. Better layout of the show. Show starts off setting up the main event. Builds up the main event through the night and then does the big main event. Small roster but everyone there matters for the most part. They make the best out of what they have. They even made people care about Apollo fucking Crews. The matches are solid, but not to the point where everyone is given 10-20 minutes to put on a Meltzer approved 5 star match. Storylines are there and it's the same roster each week and there is a clear hierarchy to the show. It's not like AEW where everyone is all over the place and everyone has competitive matches with each other no matter if one person is a world champion and the other is a DARK regular.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Klitschko said:


> Smackdown. Better layout of the show. Show starts off setting up the main event. Builds up the main event through the night and then does the big main event. Small roster but everyone there matters for the most part. They make the best out of what they have. They even made people care about Apollo fucking Crews. The matches are solid, but not to the point where everyone is given 10-20 minutes to put on a Meltzer approved 5 star match. Storylines are there and it's the same roster each week and there is a clear hierarchy to the show. It's not like AEW where everyone is all over the place and everyone has competitive matches with each other no matter if one person is a world champion and the other is a DARK regular.


I just don't like having 6 matches at a show, and 5 of them being squashes. It's not my style. All of that in a 3 hours show.


----------



## 3venflow

Smackdown has been really boring lately. Even RAW was better last week (haven't watched this week's) with Lashley/Sheamus. I'd agree it has an easier to digest formula, but lacks any sort of dynamism. Reigns is great but it's wash, rinse, repeat.

At least a bad Dynamite still has the 'what will happen next?' factor, a bad Smackdown is like watching paint dry.

Darby vs. Silver was much better than Edge vs. Uso. Even Tay vs. Nyla was better than Sasha vs. Nia.

Smackdown's ratings are dropping again too btw.


----------



## Klitschko

ProjectGargano said:


> I just don't like having 6 matches at a show, and 5 of them being squashes. It's not my style. All of that in a 3 hours show.


I get ya. I don't watch RAW, but with Smackdown it hits what I want out of a show. I don't watch it with 100% of my attention on it so I don't mind if 5/6 matches are 5 minutes or so. The main event is what matters to me. Everything else is just kind of like a little snack. I have it on while doing things in the house or just playing with my daughter. So thats why I kind of like them. 



3venflow said:


> Smackdown has been really boring lately. Even RAW was better last week (haven't watched this week's) with Lashley/Sheamus. I'd agree it has an easier to digest formula, but lacks any sort of dynamism. Reigns is great but it's wash, rinse, repeat.
> 
> At least a bad Dynamite still has the 'what will happen next?' factor, a bad Smackdown is like watching paint dry.
> 
> Darby vs. Silver was much better than Edge vs. Uso. Even Tay vs. Nyla was better than Sasha vs. Nia.
> 
> Smackdown's ratings are dropping again too btw.


This weeks full actual rating came out and it was 2.093 or something like that. So it's still sticking to its 2 million people watching. Give or take a 100k depending on the week. 

And yea I agree that Dynamite has more of that wild anything can happen feel, but it doesn't always work and we are often left with a Meh show. I would rather have a decent show every week instead of a meh/meh/great/meh/meh show if that makes any sense. 

But again, it's just different preferences really.


----------



## The Wood

ProjectGargano said:


> What show deserves more than AEW then?


While I agree that the storytelling on SmackDown has been better, even if it weren’t the case, AEW does not automatically deserve more viewers because it’s the best of a bad bunch.

Looking at what was advertised (Omega vs. Evan Bourne, John Silver vs. Darby Allin, meaningless trios match), it wouldn’t surprise me if this show didn’t get a major boost from last week’s dog’s breakfast.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Klitschko said:


> Smackdown. Better layout of the show. Show starts off setting up the main event. Builds up the main event through the night and then does the big main event. Small roster but everyone there matters for the most part. They make the best out of what they have. They even made people care about Apollo fucking Crews. The matches are solid, but not to the point where everyone is given 10-20 minutes to put on a Meltzer approved 5 star match. Storylines are there and it's the same roster each week and there is a clear hierarchy to the show. It's not like AEW where everyone is all over the place and everyone has competitive matches with each other no matter if one person is a world champion and the other is a DARK regular.


AEW fans would rather just start the show off with the world champ and enjoy good, solid wrestling matches that aren't cut short on time or talent being limited on moves. But maybe when Omega loses his title him and Hangman can reunite, dress up like bunnies, and bounce around on national TV. That is much better than wrestling some dude named Sydal from Dark in a banger of a match.


----------



## Klitschko

TKO Wrestling said:


> AEW fans would rather just start the show off with the world champ and enjoy good, solid wrestling matches that aren't cut short on time or talent being limited on moves. But maybe when Omega loses his title him and Hangman can reunite, dress up like bunnies, and bounce around on national TV. That is much better than wrestling some dude named Sydal from Dark in a banger of a match.


Yea because Roman totally does that. Same with Drew or Lashley.


----------



## Mr316

757k for AEW. It’s over. They lost all the potential casual viewers out there.


----------



## holy

AEW Dynamite will stay in the range of 800,000 viewers even after NXT moves to Tuesdays. Note it!


----------



## Prosper

@Klitschko 

The match lengths get excessive on SD too though, they're not perfect in that regard or that much better than AEW in match time. Edge is in the main event of Mania against Roman and went for way too long against Jey Uso, who is also essentially a tag along jobber. Every Daniel Bryan match is like 20 minutes long. The matches he had with Drew Gulak went 15+ minutes. They did it to showcase Gulak who is equivalent to Sydal as far as tiers, just like Sydal and Silver were showcased last night. Drew McIntyre went 20+ minutes on multiple occasions with Dolph Ziggler who probably hasn't won a meaningful singles match in the last 2-3 years. Big E went a long time with Sami Zayn, who is a jobber. It happens across the board.


----------



## Garty

Mr316 said:


> 757k for AEW. It’s over. They lost all the potential casual viewers out there.


Shut-up already man. I mean, have you not seen that the top 5 programs have had roughly the same ratings for about 3-4 weeks now? New seasons of two very popular "reality" shows and an NBA game. Still 6th in demo. Tell me genius, what's NXT's ratings and demo? Maybe go and stroll on over to the NXT board and talk about how/why their ratings are so low, while soon packing it all up, moving to Tuesday's in 3 weeks.

That's when you'll see the difference in AEW's ratings. Until then, keep talking...


----------



## Christopher Near

I thought adding new japan into the mix would boost ratings guess not


----------



## The XL 2

AEW seems to have lost a good 100-200K viewers. Unfortunate, but they were too stuck in their ways. Guys like the Bucks, Cody and Kenny Omega should not be the focal points of the show. The Bucks should not be on national television and Omega and Rhodes are midcarders at best. They devote at least an hour to those guys every week. Add on to that all of the cold spotty matches that go 15 minutes that are littered with so called false finishes that no one actually buys, utterly pointless stuff like Sting walking around clearly having nothing to do, etc, and the show was doomed to eventually lose viewership.


----------



## Christopher Near

Garty is All Elite said:


> Shut-up already man. I mean, have you not seen that the top 5 programs have had roughly the same ratings for about 3-4 weeks now? New seasons of two very popular "reality" shows and an NBA game. Still 6th in demo. Tell me genius, what's NXT's ratings and demo? Maybe go and stroll on over to the NXT board and talk about how/why their ratings are so low, while soon packing it all up, moving to Tuesday's in 3 weeks.
> 
> That's when you'll see the difference in AEW's ratings. Until then, keep talking...


Someone's salty


----------



## Mr316

Garty is All Elite said:


> Shut-up already man. I mean, have you not seen that the top 5 programs have had roughly the same ratings for about 3-4 weeks now? New seasons of two very popular "reality" shows and an NBA game. Still 6th in demo. Tell me genius, what's NXT's ratings and demo? Maybe go and stroll on over to the NXT board and talk about how/why their ratings are so low, while soon packing it all up, moving to Tuesday's in 3 weeks.
> 
> That's when you'll see the difference in AEW's ratings. Until then, keep talking...


NXT are where they should be.They don’t have guys like Sting, Mox, Jericho on their roster. It’s actually embarrassing that they’re barely beating NXT in terms of viewership.


----------



## The XL 2

Christopher Near said:


> I thought adding new japan into the mix would boost ratings guess not


Bringing in Bam Neely, Ezekiel Jackson, and The Heart Throbs would have a better chance at boosting ratings than bringing in anyone from New Japan. I'm sure Tony will bring in Okada or something and then be shocked when no one gives a fuck.


----------



## Garty

Christopher Near said:


> I thought adding new japan into the mix would boost ratings guess not


I guess you haven't watched the program then? It's alright, you're not the only one to have that opinion and not watch it.


----------



## rbl85

You need something not related to wrestling to attract casuals but the majority of wrestling fans and 99% of people on this forum would hate it


----------



## Mr316

The XL 2 said:


> Bringing in Bam Neely, Ezekiel Jackson, and The Heart Throbs would have a better chance at boosting ratings than bringing in anyone from New Japan. I'm sure Tony will bring in Okada or something and then be shocked when no one gives a fuck.


Exactly. Tony Khan has zero understanding of what is a casual viewer .


----------



## Garty

Christopher Near said:


> Someone's salty


My man, it's not being salty, it's the SAME SHIT every week in here. That's the problem, not with me.


----------



## Mr316

rbl85 said:


> You need something not related to wrestling to attract casuals but the majority of wrestling fans and 99% of people on this forum would hate it


False. You need to write an entertaining show. Not 15 minute matches involving wrestlers no one cares about.


----------



## Geert Wilders

The XL 2 said:


> AEW seems to have lost a good 100-200K viewers. Unfortunate, but they were too stuck in their ways. Guys like the Bucks, Cody and Kenny Omega should not be the focal points of the show. The Bucks should not be on national television and Omega and Rhodes are midcarders at best. They devote at least an hour to those guys every week. Add on to that all of the cold spotty matches that go 15 minutes that are littered with so called false finishes that no one actually buys, utterly pointless stuff like Sting walking around clearly having nothing to do, etc, and the show was doomed to eventually lose viewership.


It is clear that a portion of fans only tuned in prior to see Moxley as world champion.

Nobody is tuning in to watch QT Marshall turn heel.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Mr316 said:


> 757k for AEW. It’s over. They lost all the potential casual viewers out there.


Oh well. I’m sure they’ll still survive. I don’t think any wrestling company is going to grow unless somehow it becomes popular again. It’s a niche product. Simple as that.


----------



## TD Stinger




----------



## rbl85

Geert Wilders said:


> It is clear that a portion of fans only tuned in prior to see Moxley as world champion.
> 
> *Nobody is tuning in to watch QT Marshall turn heel.*


Yeah and i guess those people knew that QT was turning heel.....come on.


----------



## Prosper

Its funny how you guys argue completely disregarding the fact that 3/4 of the audience don't watch on cable or the fact that people have other things going on in their lives and can't be perfectly timed in front of their TV every Wednesday. AEW is dying? Lol okay. 

I'm one of the biggest AEW marks here and I haven't even seen the show last night yet. If every member of this forum alone didn't stream the show last night, they'd easily be over 800K.


----------



## rbl85

When is the last episode of double agent ?

Edit : I believe a read that there is 19 episode in total so that means that there is still 4 episodes


----------



## Alright_Mate

757k


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Mr316 said:


> Exactly. Tony Khan has zero understanding of what is a casual viewer .


He said from the very beginning this is for _wrestling_ fans and they’re not out to attract casual viewers. And yes, if they were to start catering to casuals, I would most likely hate it.


----------



## Geert Wilders

rbl85 said:


> Yeah and i guess those people knew that QT was turning heel.....come on.


i never said he was getting them to turn the channel (i am sure he is, but that is not my point). i am saying that he is not bringing people in. Two different statements.


----------



## Mr316

Prosper said:


> Its funny how you guys argue completely disregarding the fact that 3/4 of the audience don't watch on cable or the fact that people have other things going on in their lives and can't be perfectly timed in front of their TV every Wednesday. I'm one of the biggest AEW marks here and I haven't even seen the show last night yet. If every member of this forum alone didn't stream the show last night, they'd easily be over 800K.


😂 
Here’s the new excuse. The ratings suck because people are streaming the show illegally. First, show me the proof. Second, AEW’s next TV contract relies on the numbers of viewers that watch live on TNT. Not the “fans” that watch on a stream or the recap on Youtube.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Reggie Dunlop said:


> He said from the very beginning this is for _wrestling_ fans and they’re not out to attract casual viewers. And yes, if they were to start catering to casuals, I would most likely hate it.


If you watch wrestling, you are a wrestling fan.


----------



## rbl85

Geert Wilders said:


> i never said he was getting them to turn the channel (i am sure he is, but that is not my point). i am saying that he is not bringing people in. Two different statements.


Who is bringing people ?


----------



## Geert Wilders

rbl85 said:


> Who is bringing people ?


Clearly nobody right now.

Jon Moxley did when he was a World Champion.


----------



## rbl85

Geert Wilders said:


> Clearly nobody right now.
> 
> Jon Moxley did when he was a World Champion.


There was a good period in which Moxley was the champ and the ratings were in the 750k range.

The problem is a good amount of people are fans of a certain wrestler but they're not fan of "wrestling" and they will only watch if something big happen with the wrestler they like.


----------



## ProjectGargano

757k it is very normal for AEW. I guess it´s ok but i predicted a little bit more (775k).


----------



## Prosper

Mr316 said:


> 😂
> Here’s the new excuse. The ratings suck because people are streaming the show illegally. First, show me the proof. Second, AEW’s next TV contract relies on the numbers of viewers that watch live on TNT. Not the “fans” that watch on a stream or the recap on Youtube.


No excuses friend only reality. If TNT wasn't satisfied with AEW they wouldn't be giving them a reality show and a 2nd one hour show to come. People who work in TV understand how trends have shifted in the past 10 years. That's why almost every major network now has a streaming app. 

Showing you streaming numbers would require me to log into applications I use for work and post screenshots, which I don't really care enough to do. I've posted them in the past though. But using social media alone as an example is enough. Take this video below for example.






Do you really think if there were only 757K people watching that they would be able to amass 19 million views? Keep in mind that Youtube counts any view as one view. So if someone were to refresh their page 100 times, it would still only count as one view.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

up in the demo

w i n n i n g


----------



## A PG Attitude

I'm sure ratings will increase with NXT moving and some viewers will return when crowds fully return. I'm personally really enjoying dynamite recently, how many people watch it has no effect on my enjoyment of the show.


----------



## Geert Wilders

rbl85 said:


> There was a good period in which Moxley was the champ and the ratings were in the 750k range.
> 
> The problem is a good amount of people are fans of a certain wrestler but they're not fan of "wrestling" and they will only watch if something big happen with the wrestler they like.


but if you watch wrestling, you are a wrestling fan.

In other words, what you're saying is that Jon Moxley fans will only ever be Jon Moxley fans. They cannot become fans of others?

This to me suggests that AEW do not do enough to turn Moxley fans into Omega fans. Or Darby fans. Is that a failure of the wrestler or a failure of the company?


----------



## Aedubya

WrestlInginc reporting it negatively for AEW & positively for NXT as usual 

Stinking website


----------



## 3venflow

Quick takeaways from this week:


Number six on cable, same as last week.
Total viewership down by 11k compared to last week. No surprise there. It was a weaker card on paper, but probably shows again that there is a very hardcore audience that will keep ratings decent long-term.
There was a small improvement in both males and females in the 18-49 demo from last week. M from 0.41 to 0.42 and F from 0.15 to 0.17. Overall from 0.28 to 0.30, they will be happy to hit 0.30 again.
AEW has been performing better in the 50+ lately, one of its weaker demos, but that was down from 0.31 to 0.28 this week.

Despite all that, the demos are still down compared to the medians of the past four weeks, which include the 831k and 934k shows from 2/24 and 3/10. AEW will hope to at least get back to 800k next week, which looks quite strong on paper.

NXT is moving to Tuesdays after Wrestlemania, which should add at least 100k on to both shows every week, if not more.

Per Brandon Thurston:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1375180029114605571


----------



## rbl85

A PG Attitude said:


> I'm sure ratings will increase with NXT moving and some viewers will return when crowds fully return. I'm personally really enjoying dynamite recently, *how many people watch it has no effect on my enjoyment of the show.*


And it shouldn't but i think some people on this forum want that.


----------



## rbl85

3venflow said:


> Quick takeaways from this week:
> 
> 
> Number six on cable, same as last week.
> Total viewership down by 11k compared to last week. No surprise there. It was a weaker card on paper, but probably shows again that there is a very hardcore audience that will keep ratings decent long-term.
> There was a small improvement in both males and females in the 18-49 demo from last week. M from 0.41 to 0.42 and F from 0.15 to 0.17. Overall from 0.28 to 0.30, they will be happy to hit 0.30 again.
> AEW has been performing better in the 50+ lately, one of its weaker demos, but that was down from 0.31 to 0.28 this week.
> 
> Despite all that, the ratings are still down compared to the medians of the past four weeks, which include the 831k and 934k shows from 2/24 and 3/10. AEW will hope to at least get back to 800k next week, which looks quite strong on paper.
> 
> Per Brandon Thurston:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1375180029114605571


I really think that in 5 weeks AEW could see an increase in the ratings (i'm putting NXT moving aside)


----------



## fabi1982

Prosper said:


> Its funny how you guys argue completely disregarding the fact that 3/4 of the audience don't watch on cable


So you say AEW does 2.4m in total in the US? Thats a bold statement...


----------



## rbl85

Geert Wilders said:


> but if you watch wrestling, you are a wrestling fan.
> 
> In other words, what you're saying is that Jon Moxley fans will only ever be Jon Moxley fans. They cannot become fans of others?
> 
> This to me suggests that AEW do not do enough to turn Moxley fans into Omega fans. Or Darby fans. Is that a failure of the wrestler or a failure of the company?


It's hard to explain when english is not your first language but i'll try my best.

For exemple some people are fans of Banks (or any other women) because of her instagram and not because of her wrestling.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Quick takeaways from this week:
> 
> 
> Number six on cable, same as last week.
> Total viewership down by 11k compared to last week. No surprise there. It was a weaker card on paper, but probably shows again that there is a very hardcore audience that will keep ratings decent long-term.
> There was a small improvement in both males and females in the 18-49 demo from last week. M from 0.41 to 0.42 and F from 0.15 to 0.17. Overall from 0.28 to 0.30, they will be happy to hit 0.30 again.
> AEW has been performing better in the 50+ lately, one of its weaker demos, but that was down from 0.31 to 0.28 this week.
> 
> Despite all that, the demos are still down compared to the medians of the past four weeks, which include the 831k and 934k shows from 2/24 and 3/10. AEW will hope to at least get back to 800k next week, which looks quite strong on paper.
> 
> NXT is moving to Tuesdays after Wrestlemania, which should add at least 100k on to both shows every week, if not more.
> 
> Per Brandon Thurston:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1375180029114605571


is it confirmed moving?

thought it might not be


----------



## Geert Wilders

rbl85 said:


> It's hard to explain when english is not your first language but i'll try my best.
> 
> For exemple some people are fans of Banks (or any other women) because of her instagram and not because of her wrestling.


It does not make any difference.
If they tune in to watch Sasha Banks wrestle, WWE need to do a good job of promoting their other talent.

Same with AEW. If people watch for Jon Moxley, Tony Khan needs to say "ok you love Moxley, but look at Omega and how fucking good he is"


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> *Its funny how you guys argue completely disregarding the fact that 3/4 of the audience don't watch on cable or the fact that people have other things going on in their lives and can't be perfectly timed in front of their TV every Wednesday. AEW is dying? Lol okay.
> 
> I'm one of the biggest AEW marks here* and I haven't even seen the show last night yet. If every member of this forum alone didn't stream the show last night, they'd easily be over 800K.


The problem is this concept is only brought up on 2 occasions

1. When the show is dropping or stagnant
2. To try and explain how actually they really are over a million viewers every week. 

Both sides want it both ways, when they do well the Pro Crowd gloats as the Negative Crowd finds ways to downplay. When they're stagnant or dropping the Negative Crowd gloats, as the Pro Crowd finds ways to downplay it. The numbers only seem to matter when they fit folks narrative.


----------



## Joe Gill

Only a matter of time before 600k is the new norm. There is nothing must see about Dynamite right now... mostly just feuds that have been half ass explained because they are trying to cram too much shit into every episode. Instead they give us Dork order in main event, QT marshall segments, random pointless 6 man tag matches and Matt Hardy. 
During the peak of the monday night wars WCW revolved around NWO and Sting/Goldbeg.... WWE revolved around Austin Rock McMahon HHH and Undertaker. Vince wasnt worried about making every jobber happy by putting them in main events and major storylines. Because the focus was on only a handful of wrestlers it was easy for casual fans to follow along. 
You would tune into raw to see Austin beat the crap out of his boss and the rock to lay the smackdown. You tuned into nitro to see Goldberg dominate and Nwo to cause chaos with Sting lurking in the shadows. Simple and easy for a casual fan to follow. Meanwhile on Dynamite you need to have followed indy wrestling for 5 years to understand this bullet club crap. Even Jim Ross is scratching his head half the time. Cut the roster in half and keep it simple.


----------



## 3venflow

Report: Update On WWE NXT Moving To Tuesday Nights


The story of NXT's move to Tuesday nights took another turn recently, following a report from Mike Johnson of PWInsider. Johnson noted WWE's internal production schedule for April 2021 lists NXT as a Tuesday event for each week after WrestleMania 37. The first episode of the black and...




cultaholic.com





Apparently it's on their internal production schedule that NXT will be on Tuesdays from April 13.

If AEW gets its formula right, they have a chance to get back towards the 1m mark. Every time either show has been unopposed, they have seen a nice ratings bump.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Report: Update On WWE NXT Moving To Tuesday Nights
> 
> 
> The story of NXT's move to Tuesday nights took another turn recently, following a report from Mike Johnson of PWInsider. Johnson noted WWE's internal production schedule for April 2021 lists NXT as a Tuesday event for each week after WrestleMania 37. The first episode of the black and...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cultaholic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently it's on their internal production schedule that NXT will be on Tuesdays from April 13.
> 
> If AEW gets its formula right, they have a chance to get back towards the 1m mark. Every time either show has been unopposed, they have seen a nice ratings bump.


ah, ok - cheers


----------



## Prosper

fabi1982 said:


> So you say AEW does 2.4m in total in the US? Thats a bold statement...


Yeah I would say so. Both AEW and NXT are probably around there. Maybe more actually. RAW and SD due to the brands themselves are probably around 5 - 6 million each in the U.S. if we are taking everything into account. Not saying that everyone watches the show in FULL every week though. WWE just announced that they have 50 billion views on their Youtube channel. If there were only 1.8 million people watching RAW for example every week it would be nowhere near that. You're not gonna have the same exact people buying tickets to every show, every year without fail. They're all different people.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Joe Gill said:


> Only a matter of time before 600k is the new norm. There is nothing must see about Dynamite right now... mostly just feuds that have been half ass explained because they are trying to cram too much shit into every episode. Instead they give us Dork order in main event, QT marshall segments, random pointless 6 man tag matches and Matt Hardy.
> During the peak of the monday night wars WCW revolved around NWO and Sting/Goldbeg.... WWE revolved around Austin Rock McMahon HHH and Undertaker. Vince wasnt worried about making every jobber happy by putting them in main events and major storylines. Because the focus was on only a handful of wrestlers it was easy for casual fans to follow along.
> You would tune into raw to see Austin beat the crap out of his boss and the rock to lay the smackdown. You tuned into nitro to see Goldberg dominate and Nwo to cause chaos with Sting lurking in the shadows. Simple and easy for a casual fan to follow. Meanwhile on Dynamite you need to have followed indy wrestling for 5 years to understand this bullet club crap. Even Jim Ross is scratching his head half the time. Cut the roster in half and keep it simple.


I disagree that 600k will become normal. The ratings show that AEW have a dedicated fanbase that will watch. This will not happen. I agree about the rest.


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> The problem is this concept is only brought up on 2 occasions
> 
> 1. When the show is dropping or stagnant
> 2. To try and explain how actually they really are over a million viewers every week.
> 
> Both sides want it both ways, when they do well the Pro Crowd gloats as the Negative Crowd finds ways to downplay. When they're stagnant or dropping the Negative Crowd gloats, as the Pro Crowd finds ways to downplay it. The numbers only seem to matter when they fit folks narrative.


I'm neutral my guy, I have always had an understanding of these things given my line of work. If they succeed, of course I'm gonna celebrate it. I'm a fan. If they are down in the numbers then I will acknowledge that too as I have done on previous weeks. Hitting desirable cable numbers are still important. But my responses right now are geared towards those that think AEW is dying because they're not hitting a million on cable, then using that as a reason as to why "AEW "sucks".


----------



## rbl85

Geert Wilders said:


> It does not make any difference.
> If they tune in to watch Sasha Banks wrestle, WWE need to do a good job of promoting their other talent.
> 
> Same with AEW. If people watch for Jon Moxley, Tony Khan needs to say "ok you love Moxley, but look at Omega and how fucking good he is"


But that's what happen in every sport.

A lot of people will only watch soccer if Messi or Ronaldo are playing.


----------



## fabi1982

Prosper said:


> Yeah I would say so. Both AEW and NXT are probably around there. Maybe more actually. RAW and SD due to the brands themselves are probably around 5 - 6 million each in the U.S. if we are taking everything into account. Not saying that everyone watches the show in FULL every week though. WWE just announced that they have 50 billion views on their Youtube channel. If there were only 1.8 million people watching RAW for example every week it would be nowhere near that. You're not gonna have the same exact people buying tickets to every show, every year without fail. They're all different people.


Ok thats still a bold statement and makes all the WWE is dying marks stupid idiots. But at the end what counts for TV contracts is tv ratings, right? And with these numbers they will not get anything good out of TNT. And funny to think about people thought this year they will DEFINITELLY being constantly above 1m. Honesty not even with NXT moving nights they will get there. And it will be a problem if TK only gets 40m a year in the next tv deal, doesnt matter if 2.4m watching it elsewhere.


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> I'm neutral my guy, I have always had an understanding of these things given my line of work. If they succeed, of course I'm gonna celebrate it. I'm a fan. If they are down in the numbers then I will acknowledge that too as I have done on previous weeks. Hitting desirable cable numbers are still important. But my responses right now are geared towards those that think AEW is dying because they're not hitting a million on cable, then using that as a reason as to why "AEW "sucks".


Yes the more pro AEW side is going to get shots took because they gloat when they're up, it happens both ways lol. I'm with you they're clearly doing fine because they tend to be top 10 weekly and TNT seems happy. But when you have folk like Pippen when he was around and others gloating when they're up, then getting the same gloating when they're down is expected.


----------



## Prosper

fabi1982 said:


> Ok thats still a bold statement and makes all the WWE is dying marks stupid idiots. But at the end what counts for TV contracts is tv ratings, right? And with these numbers they will not get anything good out of TNT. And funny to think about people thought this year they will DEFINITELLY being constantly above 1m. Honesty not even with NXT moving nights they will get there. And it will be a problem if TK only gets 40m a year in the next tv deal, doesnt matter if 2.4m watching it elsewhere.


Yep TV ratings matter most for TV contracts, but like I said before, TNT wouldn't be giving them 2 additional shows if they weren't satisfied. AEW's average is probably around 760-800K if we average out every week since they started. TNT has given them additional content based on just that. When NXT moves they will automatically add at the very least another 100K, but I'm sure it'll be more. That can only mean more positive feedback.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Prosper said:


> No excuses friend only reality. If TNT wasn't satisfied with AEW they wouldn't be giving them a reality show and a 2nd one hour show to come. People who work in TV understand how trends have shifted in the past 10 years. That's why almost every major network now has a streaming app.
> 
> Showing you streaming numbers would require me to log into applications I use for work and post screenshots, which I don't really care enough to do. I've posted them in the past though. But using social media alone as an example is enough. Take this video below for example.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you really think if there were only 757K people watching that they would be able to amass 19 million views? Keep in mind that Youtube counts any view as one view. So if someone were to refresh their page 100 times, it would still only count as one view.


This is a bad excuse. 

Joey Ryan has videos with tens of millions of views and I can assure you no more than 100 people saw it live.


----------



## Christopher Near

Garty is All Elite said:


> I guess you haven't watched the program then? It's alright, you're not the only one to have that opinion and not watch it.


I do watch. The forbidden door has been open for a while now.

Even the episode with kenta ratings went down

Impacts rstinga went down even with kenny so explain that


----------



## Geert Wilders

rbl85 said:


> But that's what happen in every sport.
> 
> A lot of people will only watch soccer if Messi or Ronaldo are playing.


Soccer is not a character-driven product. It is a poor example, especially because soccer is a very lucrative product.


----------



## Prosper

NathanMayberry said:


> This is a bad excuse.
> 
> Joey Ryan has videos with tens of millions of views and I can assure you no more than 100 people saw it live.


316's point was that fans have no interest in AEW and that the cable audience was the only audience. That was my reason for posting the video.


----------



## TD Stinger

I'm no ratings expert by any means but the last few show numbers are interesting to look at. Interesting to look at in terms of it just being a 3 week sample that is.

Because from what I can see, them doing around 750k for their shows seems fairly normal. Now when they do a special show, like Beach Bash or the Shaq show, they'll usually break into the 800-900k range. I think some of the worry comes from that they did about 950k on the Shaq show and then immediately followed that with a big PPV and then after all that, viewership fell off by basically 200k in viewership and has stayed there (again, for only 3 weeks). Though the demo seems like it's stayed fairly consistent though still a bit lower than it's usually been the last couple of weeks.

So yeah, I don't see that number and think gloom and doom. But at the same time, coming out of their big Revolution show, it doesn't feel like they're riding a wave of momentum upwards. It just feels like they're pretty much where they already were, or slightly a little worse.

I'll be interested to see what happens with viewership not only when NXT moves nights, but also when we have fans and they're back in arenas again. We're still a ways off from that mind you, but I'll be interested to see what impact that has across the board in wrestling.


----------



## fabi1982

Prosper said:


> Yep TV ratings matter most for TV contracts, but like I said before, TNT wouldn't be giving them 2 additional shows if they weren't satisfied. AEW's average is probably around 760-800K if we average out every week since they started. TNT has given them additional content based on just that. When NXT moves they will automatically add at the very least another 100K, but I'm sure it'll be more. That can only mean more positive feedback.


I still only see one show on TNT and actually wouldnt be surprised if the Cody and Brandi show will be the so long rumored 2nd tnt show. And tnt does make money from these extra shows, AEW doesnt as far as I understand that. More content, same pay. And now hoping for additional viewers once NXT moves really makes for a sad statement (not you, generally), when half a year ago people where already seing AEW conquering RAW in ratings..remember that?


----------



## Prosper

fabi1982 said:


> I still only see one show on TNT and actually wouldnt be surprised if the Cody and Brandi show will be the so long rumored 2nd tnt show. And tnt does make money from these extra shows, AEW doesnt as far as I understand that. More content, same pay. And now hoping for additional viewers once NXT moves really makes for a sad statement (not you, generally), when half a year ago people where already seing AEW conquering RAW in ratings..remember that?


Even if all of these shows end up falling under the same revised contract, they could easily put different types of content in those time slots. TNT is a popular network. It's also due to the fact that wrestling is consistent programming every week, whereas other shows/sports run in seasons and they have to keep replacing it with other stuff. The fact that they are filling time slots with AEW content means at the very least that they are OK with how things have been going. 

As far as AEW beating RAW, I think those people saying that every week were more so thinking that RAW's decline in cable viewership would allow AEW to beat them. Until we see a dramatic change in cable audience numbers, then I don't really see AEW doing more than 1.3 Mil on cable at the most, at least for now, but RAW can easily fall under that given their year to year trends. Beating them at 1.7 mil though is a tall task for a 14 month promotion in the modern era, especially with WWE and their brand recognition.


----------



## yeahright2

Results are in for our little game
AEW Ratings prediction game
It´s a tie this week.. one above, and one below.

AEW needs to step up their game if they want the pre-Revolution numbers back


----------



## Mr316

Joe Gill said:


> Only a matter of time before 600k is the new norm. There is nothing must see about Dynamite right now... mostly just feuds that have been half ass explained because they are trying to cram too much shit into every episode. Instead they give us Dork order in main event, QT marshall segments, random pointless 6 man tag matches and Matt Hardy.
> During the peak of the monday night wars WCW revolved around NWO and Sting/Goldbeg.... WWE revolved around Austin Rock McMahon HHH and Undertaker. Vince wasnt worried about making every jobber happy by putting them in main events and major storylines. Because the focus was on only a handful of wrestlers it was easy for casual fans to follow along.
> You would tune into raw to see Austin beat the crap out of his boss and the rock to lay the smackdown. You tuned into nitro to see Goldberg dominate and Nwo to cause chaos with Sting lurking in the shadows. Simple and easy for a casual fan to follow. Meanwhile on Dynamite you need to have followed indy wrestling for 5 years to understand this bullet club crap. Even Jim Ross is scratching his head half the time. Cut the roster in half and keep it simple.


EXACTLY.


----------



## RomeoBlues

TKO Wrestling said:


> AEW fans would rather just start the show off with the world champ and enjoy good, solid wrestling matches that aren't cut short on time or talent being limited on moves.


Go buy a ticket to an independent wrestling show then. TV is meant to build stories, sell stories and get new characters over whilst having some good wrestling sprinkled throughout. It is not meant to be PWG with a budget.



Garty is All Elite said:


> Maybe go and stroll on over to the NXT board and talk about how/why their ratings are so low, while soon packing it all up, moving to Tuesday's in 3 weeks.
> 
> That's when you'll see the difference in AEW's ratings. Until then, keep talking...


AEW's 5 top national stars: Big Show, Chris Jericho, Christian, Jon Moxley, Sting

NXT's 5 top national stars: Adam Cole, Fandango, Finn Balor, Roderick Strong, Tyler Breeze

Hmm...



Prosper said:


> Its funny how you guys argue completely disregarding the fact that 3/4 of the audience don't watch on cable or the fact that people have other things going on in their lives and can't be perfectly timed in front of their TV every Wednesday. AEW is dying? Lol okay.
> 
> I'm one of the biggest AEW marks here and I haven't even seen the show last night yet. If every member of this forum alone didn't stream the show last night, they'd easily be over 800K.


If we're taking streaming into account now then wouldn't NXT be doing much better also?

And wow, a whopping 800k with all that talent signed? Kudos to AEW!


----------



## Purple Haze

I was expecting a lower rating, around 700k, the card looked bad this week.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Damn it was even lower than I predicted. They should pick up the hot program and focus everything on it. Or fuse two of them the Inner Circle/Pinnacle and what Omega is doing. I think the non-exploding ring really did damage.


----------



## .christopher.

rbl85 said:


> You need something not related to wrestling to attract casuals but the majority of wrestling fans and 99% of people on this forum would hate it


Except AEW tried this with Mike Tyson and Shaq. People tuned in for Shaq, saw how embarrassing this show was, left, and haven't come back.

Also, this:


Mr316 said:


> False. You need to write an entertaining show. Not 15 minute matches involving wrestlers no one cares about.





Reggie Dunlop said:


> He said from the very beginning this is for _wrestling_ fans and they’re not out to attract casual viewers. And yes, if they were to start catering to casuals, I would most likely hate it.


This isn't for WRESTLING fans. WRESTLING fans are disgusted with AEW. This is for outlaw mudshow fans.


----------



## One Shed

.christopher. said:


> Except AEW tried this with Mike Tyson and Shaq. People tuned in for Shaq, saw how embarrassing this show was, left, and haven't come back.
> 
> Also, this:
> 
> 
> This isn't for WRESTLING fans. WRESTLING fans are disgusted with AEW. This is for outlaw mudshow fans.


Even Shaq disappeared without a trace or explanation off the show...but I am sure someone will no doubt say disappearing out of an ambulance is just "long term storytelling."


----------



## Impermanence

The XL 2 said:


> AEW seems to have lost a good 100-200K viewers. Unfortunate, but they were too stuck in their ways. Guys like the Bucks, Cody and Kenny Omega should not be the focal points of the show. The Bucks should not be on national television and Omega and Rhodes are midcarders at best. They devote at least an hour to those guys every week. Add on to that all of the cold spotty matches that go 15 minutes that are littered with so called false finishes that no one actually buys, utterly pointless stuff like Sting walking around clearly having nothing to do, etc, and the show was doomed to eventually lose viewership.


I'm surprised 700-800K people watch this show LIVE.


----------



## La Parka

AEW has drawn very poorly since the PPV.

I wonder if that event was the final straw for people.

Customers work hard for their money, if you shit in their face, most won’t ever come back. I know I will never buy an aew ppv again and I’m sure others feel the same.

AEW has done very little to get goodwill back from their customers. Christian says the fans are fickle because there was literally not a single soul who was hyped for his AEW debut and Tony Khan had some lame ass “well what did you expect” in response to this decades biggest botch.


----------



## La Parka

.christopher. said:


> Except AEW tried this with Mike Tyson and Shaq. People tuned in for Shaq, saw how embarrassing this show was, left, and haven't come back.
> 
> Also, this:
> 
> 
> This isn't for WRESTLING fans. WRESTLING fans are disgusted with AEW. This is for outlaw mudshow fans.


Yup.

this show is for those that go to those outlaw wrestling shows and clap there hands like that guy in @Two Sheds old sig.

There’s probably 500k people that like that shit and 300k just thankful to watch anything that isn’t WWE.

I’m thinking that 300k will start to walk in the coming years when they slowly realize that the show is designed for Indy smarks and not wrestling fans.


----------



## One Shed

La Parka said:


> Yup.
> 
> this show is for those that go to those outlaw wrestling shows and clap there hands like that guy in @Two Sheds old sig.
> 
> There’s probably 500k people that like that shit and 300k just thankful to watch anything that isn’t WWE.
> 
> I’m thinking that 300k will start to walk in the coming years when they slowly realize that the show is designed for Indy smarks and not wrestling fans.


Yellow Shirt Trashidy fan will live forever (in a basement):


----------



## DammitChrist

.christopher. said:


> People acting like they deserve more viewers, lol.
> 
> The show is insulting to people who like wrestling. This 700k is their audience. It won't grow because they only cater to the fans who want to be in on the joke, and that isn't a lot of people.
> 
> They had a chance to provide a proper alternative to WWEs shit and blew it.


As usual, you’re wrong considering the fact that the show (definitely) deserves more viewers since it’s consistently a fun product for genuine wrestling fans.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Its 2021, who cares if Omega and the Bucks love each other or not. Shit is so niche.


----------



## One Shed

RainmakerV2 said:


> Its 2021, who cares if Omega and the Bucks love each other or not. Shit is so niche.


I had no idea these guys were so unoriginal too. Is this Bullet Club thing seriously just a weak ripoff of the Kliq/nWo? They even have literally the same too sweet gesture. Imagine Austin or Rock trying to get over by gesturing their hands to cup their ears like Hogan. It is just so LAZY.


----------



## DammitChrist

NathanMayberry said:


> So there’s no mention here of the fact that a Kenny Omega advertised Impact appearance drew the lowest viewership of 2021?
> 
> When can the discussions of Kenny Omega not being a draw begin? They need to get the title off of him.
> 
> He’s the only world champion that I can remember that has killed ratings for two promotions
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





.christopher. said:


> Really?! I didn't think TNAs ratings could get worse. That's really impressive.
> 
> Then again, it's no surprise. Kenny Omega is revolting to look at. I hadn't seen him before AEW and, after seeing this clown, I couldn't believe this was who people were claiming to be a potential star. A better worker than Daniel Bryan, they said.
> 
> He's dogshit.


I honestly can’t believe that some folks are still bold and misinformed enough to blame 1 wrestler for the overall ratings in 2021, especially when it’s directed to someone who’s arguably the best wrestler in the company in Kenny Omega (who just happens to be pushed atm). That’s just being delusional and short-sighted here.

They should keep that world title on Kenny Omega for several months longer since there’s plenty of good matches and cool angles (involving the “Forbidden Door) that can easily give him plenty of substance to work with for the rest of 2021.

I’d honestly have Adam Page be the one to end his lengthy world title reign around the end of this year to complete his full redemption.


----------



## DammitChrist

Christopher Near said:


> Someone's salty


He honestly sounded rational and fair there in that post though.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Prosper said:


> No excuses friend only reality. If TNT wasn't satisfied with AEW they wouldn't be giving them a reality show and a 2nd one hour show to come. People who work in TV understand how trends have shifted in the past 10 years. That's why almost every major network now has a streaming app.
> 
> Showing you streaming numbers would require me to log into applications I use for work and post screenshots, which I don't really care enough to do. I've posted them in the past though. But using social media alone as an example is enough. Take this video below for example.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you really think if there were only 757K people watching that they would be able to amass 19 million views? Keep in mind that Youtube counts any view as one view. So if someone were to refresh their page 100 times, it would still only count as one view.


You also have to remember that YouTube is a worldwide view count and counts any auto play view that starts as a view as well.its entirely possible to from a Dean Ambrose match/promo to a Jon Moxley match/promo without wanting to. Not to.mention the use of VPNs so it's not necessarily the most reliable data. 

Anyway YouTube views don't keep you on the TV network that you're on but flawed arguments or not TNT would be happy with 400k viewers so AEW is more than safe for the foreseeable future.


----------



## 3venflow

They ought to make the April 14th edition of Dynamite one of their named shows and make it a near all-star affair.

It'll be their first unopposed by NXT (who move to Tuesdays from that week) since the Brodie/Dustin show, which did over a million. It'll also be a month and half before Double or Nothing so it'd be a good time to do one of their big Dynamites. They have a chance to expand their core fanbase that night.

Only thing they can't do is have Kenny defended the world title as he'll be facing Rich Swann soon after. But he could defend the AAA title... how about against Cody? Nothing stopping him challenging for that title.


----------



## Prosper

MonkasaurusRex said:


> You also have to remember that YouTube is a worldwide view count and counts any auto play view that starts as a view as well.its entirely possible to from a Dean Ambrose match/promo to a Jon Moxley match/promo without wanting to. Not to.mention the use of VPNs so it's not necessarily the most reliable data.
> 
> Anyway YouTube views don't keep you on the TV network that you're on but flawed arguments or not TNT would be happy with 400k viewers so AEW is more than safe for the foreseeable future.


Yep definitely, all of those auto-plays count as views. I think YT also refreshes based on session time so if someone just has the video up, sleeps their computer overnight, then comes back, I believe that may count as an additional view, but I'd have to look into that. There's also the people who come back multiple times week after week. But even in taking all of that into consideration, the gap between the cable audience numbers and the views you have here is still extremely large. There's multiple videos on their channel like this, including one with 29 million views. The only point I was really making to those 2 posters is that the cable audience is not an indicator of the entire audience.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Two Sheds said:


> I had no idea these guys were so unoriginal too. Is this Bullet Club thing seriously just a weak ripoff of the Kliq/nWo? They even have literally the same too sweet gesture. Imagine Austin or Rock trying to get over by gesturing their hands to cup their ears like Hogan. It is just so LAZY.


I mean im a wrestling nerd, so I got what they were talking about, but any new or casual viewer would be like.."why the fuck are these three dorks arguing about doing the hand signal Kevin Nash and Konnan used to do?" 

Thats the break off point when it comes to how people watch AEW. Do you want them to appeal to a larger audience and actually maybe make a run at Vince in 5 years, or are you with the same 700K every week as long as they do stuff that appeals to YOU.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

DammitChrist said:


> I honestly can’t believe that some folks are still bold and misinformed enough to blame 1 wrestler for the overall ratings in 2021, especially when it’s directed to someone who’s arguably the best wrestler in the company in Kenny Omega (who just happens to be pushed atm). That’s just being delusional and short-sighted here.
> 
> They should keep that world title on Kenny Omega for several months longer since there’s plenty of good matches and cool angles (involving the “Forbidden Door) that can easily give him plenty of substance to work with for the rest of 2021.
> 
> I’d honestly have Adam Page be the one to end his lengthy world title reign around the end of this year to complete his full redemption.


 Being the best wrestler in a company doesn't mean jack shit when it comes to being a popular act.

Bret Hart was a great wrestler and far better than Hulk Hogan. Who did people want to see? Hulk Hogan, you say. Well how on earth could that be possible if being the most adept at pretending to fight was the determining factor in being the most popular act or even an act that people actively want to see regularly on TV?


----------



## RainmakerV2

MonkasaurusRex said:


> Being the best wrestler in a company doesn't mean jack shit when it comes to being a popular act.
> 
> Bret Hart was a great wrestler and far better than Hulk Hogan. Who did people want to see? Hulk Hogan, you say. Well how on earth could that be possible if being the most adept at pretending to fight was the determining factor in being the most popular act or even an act that people actively want to see regularly on TV?


Exactly. I couldn't quote this enough. Worrying about who the best "wrestler" is has completely killed the wrestling business. We've gone from guys like Sid Vicious and The Rock, to the Young Bucks. And you wonder why no one but the same 700k watch. And ESPECIALLY why no WOMEN watch anymore.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Prosper said:


> Yep definitely, all of those auto-plays count as views. I think YT also refreshes based on session time so if someone just has the video up, sleeps their computer overnight, then comes back, I believe that may count as an additional view, but I'd have to look into that. There's also the people who come back multiple times week after week. But even in taking all of that into consideration, the gap between the cable audience numbers and the views you have here is still extremely large. There's multiple videos on their channel like this, including one with 29 million views. The only point I was really making to those 2 posters is that the cable audience is not an indicator of the entire audience.


Of course it isn't an indication of the entire audience anyone suggesting otherwise is an idiot. Though the cable audience IS the determining factor in if they stay on TV. If they lose that(not saying that they will or are even remotely in danger of it) It doesn't matter how many people watch them YouTube.


----------



## DammitChrist

MonkasaurusRex said:


> Being the best wrestler in a company doesn't mean jack shit when it comes to being a popular act.
> 
> Bret Hart was a great wrestler and far better than Hulk Hogan. Who did people want to see? Hulk Hogan, you say. Well how on earth could that be possible if being the most adept at pretending to fight was the determining factor in being the most popular act or even an act that people actively want to see regularly on TV?


I'm pretty sure that Bret Hart was still one of the most popular wrestlers that they had in the company back when he was a top guy in the mid-90s, and he did pretty damn well for himself too with his career.

I really don't see why great in-ring work and the ability to deliver good matches needs to be viewed as some hindrance for a top guy. Ideally, you want your main-events to deliver in order to send the audience and the crowds home happy.

Anyway, this weird opposition to workrate here did nothing to detract from my previous point.


----------



## RainmakerV2

DammitChrist said:


> I'm pretty sure that Bret Hart was still one of the most popular wrestlers that they had in the company back when he was a top guy in the mid-90s, and he did pretty damn well for himself too with his career.
> 
> I really don't see why great in-ring work and the ability to deliver good matches needs to be viewed as some hindrance for a top guy. Ideally, you want your main-events to deliver in order to send the audience and the crowds home happy.
> 
> Anyway, this weird opposition to workrate here did nothing to detract from my previous point.


Hogan did 3 moves and sent people home happy for 20 years.


----------



## Prosper

MonkasaurusRex said:


> Of course it isn't an indication of the entire audience anyone suggesting otherwise is an idiot. Though the cable audience IS the determining factor in if they stay on TV. If they lose that(not saying that they will or are even remotely in danger of it) It doesn't matter how many people watch them YouTube.


Your point about the cable audience is valid, I never argued against that. As you said, they won't drop too low because the loyal cable fanbase is there. My YT/streaming argument was to your first point to people acting like the whole audience is watching on a cable box and that suddenly because the cable ratings are lower then that equates to the entire audience turning away from the product, which is false.


----------



## Kentucky34

The novelty of AEW has worn off. I really wanted to like it but I just don't. 

I think they will last a while but it will be all downhill for them from here. 

Another TNA.


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> Hogan did 3 moves and sent people home happy for 20 years.


That's cool!

I'd still rather watch guys like Bret Hart and Kenny Omega wrestle (or perform) over Hulk Hogan


----------



## Dr. Middy

RainmakerV2 said:


> Thats the break off point when it comes to how people watch AEW. Do you want them to appeal to a larger audience and actually maybe make a run at Vince in 5 years, or are you with the same 700K every week as long as they do stuff that appeals to YOU.


That's an interesting point, and you can relate it a lot to something like a band or something. Take Maroon 5 for example. I thought they were actually a pretty good pop rock band with their first album, but since then have become just a stereotypical boring pop act with the only noticeable thing being Adam Levine's vocals. They did end up getting more mainstream attention going that route though but I just flat out stopped listening to them.

I don't mind if AEW does some stuff to try to appeal to casual fans or try to bring fans in, but they'd probably lose me entirely if they started mostly focusing on things to only bring in those type of fans. Kind of hard to root for them to have more success in that regard when I'd be basically rooting for me to become less interested in them.


----------



## RainmakerV2

DammitChrist said:


> That's cool!
> 
> I'd still rather watch guys like Bret Hart and Kenny Omega wrestle (or perform) over Hulk Hogan


And wrestling promoters catering to people like you is how a wrestling company backed by a billionaire on TNT cant get over 750K viewers.


----------



## Kentucky34

DammitChrist said:


> That's cool!
> 
> I'd still rather watch guys like Bret Hart and Kenny Omega wrestle (or perform) over Hulk Hogan


I hate Hogan but he drew in the 80s. 

Hart and Omega are not draws at all. 

I don't like watching any of them but those are the facts.


----------



## La Parka

Kentucky34 said:


> The novelty of AEW has worn off. I really wanted to like it but I just don't.
> 
> I think they will last a while but it will be all downhill for them from here.
> 
> Another TNA.


what could AEW do to maybe bring in the fans?


----------



## RainmakerV2

La Parka said:


> what could AEW do to maybe bring in the fans?


Well to start you can put people on TV that actually look like grown men and have some sex appeal. Thatll help you with the chicks. Maybe have guys like Wardlow do...I dont know....ANYTHING?


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> And wrestling promoters catering to people like you is how a wrestling company backed by a billionaire on TNT cant get over 750K viewers.


Imagine thinking that catering to questionable folks like anti-smarks will get over a million viewers 😂 

If anything, catering to them and pissing off their hardcore audience will actually lose them viewers in the long run.


----------



## zkorejo

Once NXT gets the fuck out of the way, I guess AEW will finally see the increase in that bitter 50+ demo who will hate watch it. That demo is what is bloating NXT overall numbers. Every other demo is like .10. 

So it's not like there's much to gain from NXT moving to Tuesday if I'm being honest. Bragging rights of embarrassing NXT every week is far superior than 50+ audience that's hard to sell stuff to.


----------



## Kentucky34

La Parka said:


> what could AEW do to maybe bring in the fans?


Bring in Rollins or Bryan full time.

It would also help if they stopped pushing Omega.


----------



## Kentucky34

DammitChrist said:


> Imagine thinking that catering to questionable folks like anti-smarks will get over a million viewers 😂
> 
> If anything, catering to them and pissing off their hardcore audience will actually lose them viewers in the long run.


Nothing has worked for AEW. 

Their core audience and anti-smarks are equally delusional.


----------



## Prosper

RainmakerV2 said:


> Well to start you can put people on TV that actually look like *grown men and have some sex appeal.* Thatll help you with the chicks. Maybe have guys like Wardlow do...I dont know....ANYTHING?


How's that working out in the other company though? Do Drew McIntyre, Lashley, and Reigns not fit that bill? Why aren't cable fans flocking to see them? Hogan era TV was just as bad as current day RAW so its not the quality. What is it?



Kentucky34 said:


> Bring in Rollins or Bryan full time.
> 
> It would also help if they stopped pushing Omega.


So they fix it by pushing your favorite wrestlers. LOL. You people crack me up man seriously. I love this place.


----------



## DammitChrist

Kentucky34 said:


> Nothing has worked for AEW.
> 
> Their core audience and *anti-smarks *are equally delusional.


It's more so the latter (by a landslide) tbh.


----------



## Kentucky34

DammitChrist said:


> It's more so the latter (by a landslide) tbh.


Maybe. 

But Omega as a main eventer? 

Orange Cassidy?

Dark Order?

I don't see how people can expect those performers to draw ratings.


----------



## Kentucky34

Prosper said:


> How's that working out in the other company though? Do Drew McIntyre, Lashley, and Reigns not fit that bill? Why aren't cable fans flocking to see them? Hogan era TV was just as bad as current day RAW so its not the quality. What is it?
> 
> 
> 
> So they fix it by pushing your favorite wrestlers. LOL. You people crack me up man seriously. I love this place.


I like Bryan but he isn't my favourite wrestler. He is a big draw if the company get behind him. 

Seth is the biggest star in the industry.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Prosper said:


> How's that working out in the other company though? Do Drew McIntyre, Lashley, and Reigns not fit that bill? Why aren't cable fans flocking to see them? Hogan era TV was just as bad as current day RAW so its not the quality. What is it?
> 
> 
> 
> So they fix it by pushing your favorite wrestlers. LOL. You people crack me up man seriously. I love this place.


WWE ratings wise has been on a free fall for a decade. A lot of that was because they focused too much on wrestling instead of building larger than life characters. AEW can still correct course and save itself, but it obviously isnt.

And Drew is dull as dirt. Just because a guy looks the part doesnt mean he isnt dull. You have to have both.

And Wardlow isnt my favorite anything. But you cant tell me him only having 1 TV match the entire year isnt criminal misuse.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

DammitChrist said:


> I'm pretty sure that Bret Hart was still one of the most popular wrestlers that they had in the company back when he was a top guy in the mid-90s, and he did pretty damn well for himself too with his career.
> 
> I really don't see why great in-ring work and the ability to deliver good matches needs to be viewed as some hindrance for a top guy. Ideally, you want your main-events to deliver in order to send the crowds/audience home happy.
> 
> Anyway, this weird opposition to workrate here did nothing to detract from my previous point.


Yes, Bret was popular as their top act but it was no where near the level of Hogan. In fact post Hogan WWF saw a drastic drop in its audience that it took years to recover from.

Who is saying that being a great wrestler should be or needs to be a hindrance to someone becoming a top guy? Flair was a huge draw, Savage too but they weren't Hogan. It's not an aversion to workrate it's just being able to see what and who has historically been more appealing to the broadest audience possible. If you can't see THAT statistically and historically the more in-ring centric performers have proven to be less popular than their more bombastic and less in-ring based counterparts it's time to wake the hell up.

In a perfect world every wrestler would be a world class worker every promo would be the greatest promo ever, draw billions of dollars and millions of viewers every day of the damn week from now until the end of time. It's just not realistic and because it isn't realistic and we have to deal with the cold hard facts and one of those facts is that the guys that appeal to the biggest audience are rarely the guys who are the best wrestlers.


----------



## Kentucky34

I think AEW's biggest problem right now is Omega. He just isn't a draw as champion or otherwise. 

Even Moxley was better.


----------



## Prosper

RainmakerV2 said:


> WWE ratings wise has been on a free fall for a decade. A lot of that was because they focused too much on wrestling instead of building larger than life characters. AEW can still correct course and save itself, but it obviously isnt.
> 
> And Drew is dull as dirt. Just because a guy looks the part doesnt mean he isnt dull. You have to have both.


It's hard to find that mix. You can't just pull people from the street. And how do you build a larger-than-life character? It kind of just happens, it's not manufactured. It can only be built upon after the fact once a talent finds a way to get over massively with the mainstream. That doesn't just happen easily. AEW has tried A LOT of different things. 

Talent aren't cut from the same cloth as they used to be. And even if they were, the sport is no longer mainstream so it wouldn't really make much of a difference. CM Punk is one of the best talkers in history but he didn't have millions of new or lapsed fans flocking towards him either. It's not about promotions focusing too much on wrestling, it's about talent not coming up from wrestling school/the indies with the same skills that we saw in the past. I'm sure if Rock-level talent were available they would be signed with the quickness. But you gotta work with what you got.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Prosper said:


> How's that working out in the other company though? Do Drew McIntyre, Lashley, and Reigns not fit that bill? Why aren't cable fans flocking to see them? Hogan era TV was just as bad as current day RAW so its not the quality. What is it?
> 
> 
> 
> So they fix it by pushing your favorite wrestlers. LOL. You people crack me up man seriously. I love this place.



And why are you naming just big men? Size doesnt automatically equal sex appeal. HBK and Flair probably got the most ass out of any 2 guys in the history of the business and they were small in relative stature. Why? They carried themselves like stars and they looked and talked like stars. Charisma oozed out of both of them.

Look at AEWs roster. What do they have? The Bucks look like soccer dads who havent seen a gym in 5 years. Moxley looks like a balding plumber. Cornette is right. Kingston, i like Kingston, but cmon, Jericho, I mean sweet Jesus. Omega at least has a physique but is a total nerd in his presentation and acting.


Theres absolutely zero reason a heterosexual woman would watch the show.


----------



## Prosper

RainmakerV2 said:


> And why are you naming just big men? Size doesnt automatically equal sex appeal. HBK and Flair probably got the most ass out of any 2 guys in the history of the business and they were small in relative stature. Why? They carried themselves like stars and they looked and talked like stars. Charisma oozed out of both of them.
> 
> Look at AEWs roster. What do they have? The Bucks look like soccer dads who havent seen a gym in 5 years. Moxley looks like a balding plumber. Cornette is right. Kingston, i like Kingston, but cmon, Jericho, I mean sweet Jesus. Omega at least has a physique but is a total nerd in his presentation and acting.
> 
> 
> Theres absolutely zero reason a heterosexual woman would watch the show.


What about Cody, Omega, Hangman, Brian Cage, PAC, Jungle Boy, Miro, MJF, Santana, 10, Starks, Sammy G, Wardlow, Bowens, Ethan Page, etc.? Do they not have those qualities?

Omega dresses like a movie star every week and has probably slept with more Japanese baddies than we can count lol.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Prosper said:


> What about Cody, Omega, Hangman, Brian Cage, PAC, Jungle Boy, Miro, MJF, Santana, 10, Starks, Sammy G, Wardlow, Bowens, Ethan Page, etc.? Do they not have those qualities?
> 
> Omega dresses like a movie star every week and has probably slept with more Japanese baddies than we can count lol.


Out of those 10 guys you named, like 8 of them are hardly ever on the show in anything relevant, and you're way off on a couple. No, Ethan Page does not have sex appeal like HBK or Flair. Like what the fuck?


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

DammitChrist said:


> Imagine thinking that catering to questionable folks like anti-smarks will get over a million viewers 😂
> 
> If anything, catering to them and pissing off their hardcore audience will actually lose them viewers in the long run.


Yep, WCW's move away from "southern wrasslin" to the broader "sports entertainment" model really ruined them. It certainly wasn't frivolous spending poor management and a corporate merger that ruined them. Nope, it was definitely that switch in presentation.

The WWF and that guy Vince McMahon was really hampered by their move from the old school approach of the territories to the more flamboyant presentation that is now known as sports entertainment. Whatever happened to the WWF? I don't think I remember the last time they ran a show.

The truth is that it appealing to a broader audience doesn't have to alienate anyone. You can still have great wrestling and larger than life personalities and stories. When modern wrestling(especially the prime time TV variety) truly WORKS it's because it has something that both the hardcore audience and the casual audience can enjoy.

This Smark vs Anti smark nonsense is ridiculous.


----------



## Prosper

RainmakerV2 said:


> Out of those 10 guys you named, like 8 of them are hardly ever on the show in anything relevant, and you're way off on a couple. No, Ethan Page does not have sex appeal like HBK or Flair. Like what the fuck?


You're talking like HBK and Flair weren't also surrounded by guys who didn't have "sex appeal" lol, like women were sitting at home every week back then waiting for 2 hours for HBK to come on and shake his ass for his segment lol, but I'm done talking about how sexy the men are on a wrestling show to heterosexual women. This is the weirdest conversation ever.


----------



## The Wood

757k is not a good number. They seem to have lost the goodwill they have to bounce back after disappointing numbers.


----------



## The Wood

Prosper said:


> You're talking like HBK and Flair weren't also surrounded by guys who didn't have "sex appeal" lol, like women were sitting at home every week back then waiting for 2 hours for HBK to come on and shake his ass for his segment lol, but I'm done talking about how sexy the men are on a wrestling show to heterosexual women. This is the weirdest conversation ever.


Women will want to watch attractive men. It’s actually _very_ pertinent to the conversation.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Prosper said:


> It's hard to find that mix. You can't just pull people from the street. And how do you build a larger-than-life character? It kind of just happens, it's not manufactured. It can only be built upon after the fact once a talent finds a way to get over massively with the mainstream. That doesn't just happen easily. AEW has tried A LOT of different things.
> 
> Talent aren't cut from the same cloth as they used to be. And even if they were, the sport is no longer mainstream so it wouldn't really make much of a difference. CM Punk is one of the best talkers in history but he didn't have millions of new or lapsed fans flocking towards him either. It's not about promotions focusing too much on wrestling, it's about talent not coming up from wrestling school/the indies with the same skills that we saw in the past. I'm sure if Rock-level talent were available they would be signed with the quickness. But you gotta work with what you got.


Even guys like The Rock had to learn adapt and grow into the performers that they became. It wasn't like he just appeared out of thin air and was the top draw. There were some serious growing pains. Sometimes and let's be real here more often than not the guys you think have that next level potential don't reach that level because it is so goddamn hard to develop the skills and connection necessary to reach that next level. It's why so few people ever reach it.


----------



## DammitChrist

Yep, it would definitely be a nonsensical idea for them to cater towards the irrational anti-smarks. I'm glad that we've agreed upon this, and established that part


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

The Wood said:


> Women will want to watch attractive men. It’s actually _very_ pertinent to the conversation.


Yeah, Hulk Hogan was certainly a heartthrob.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Prosper said:


> You're talking like HBK and Flair weren't also surrounded by guys who didn't have "sex appeal" lol, like women were sitting at home every week back then waiting for 2 hours for HBK to come on and shake his ass for his segment lol, but I'm done talking about how sexy the men are on a wrestling show to heterosexual women. This is the weirdest conversation ever.


Its weird if you make it weird. I can say Brad Pitt has sex appeal. Doesnt make me weird or gay.


----------



## Prosper

MonkasaurusRex said:


> Even guys like The Rock had to learn adapt and grow into the performers that they became. It wasn't like he just appeared out of thin air and was the top draw. There were some serious growing pains. Sometimes and let's be real here more often than not the guys you think have that next level potential don't reach that level because it is so goddamn hard to develop the skills and connection necessary to reach that next level. It's why so few people ever reach it.


Right. This is why I don't get the "just build larger than life characters I wanna see who talk good and all will be well with drawing in the mainstream in masses" argument that I see so often in the IWC. That doesn't just happen. You can't just push someone in a hot storyline and assume they are going to reach Austin levels just because the storyline was hot. The Authority vs everyday guy story between Austin and Vince has been re-hashed so many times since then and it has never worked at that level, even with guys like Punk and Bryan. It takes a lot for talent to reach those kinds of levels, it's almost like magic, and with the current wrestling landscape, it's even harder for present-day talent than it ever was.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Prosper said:


> Right. This is why I don't get the "just build larger than life characters I wanna see who talk good and all will be well with drawing in the mainstream in masses" argument that I see so often in the IWC. That doesn't just happen. You can't just push someone in a hot storyline and assume they are going to reach Austin levels just because the storyline was hot. The Authority vs everyday guy story between Austin and Vince has been re-hashed so many times since then and it has never worked at that level, even with guys like Punk and Bryan. It takes a lot for talent to reach those kinds of levels, it's almost like magic, and with the current wrestling landscape, it's even harder for present-day talent than it ever was.



I can tell you right now guys like the Bucks will never have any crossover appeal. None. Any.

Britt Baker on the other hand does. Which is why its mind boggling that they wont pull the trigger on her.


----------



## Prosper

RainmakerV2 said:


> I can tell you right now guys like the Bucks will never have any crossover appeal. None. Any.
> 
> Britt Baker on the other hand does. Which is why its mind boggling that they wont pull the trigger on her.


Neither do guys with all the sex appeal in the world like Roman Reigns. Britt's moment is coming and we all know it. DON is AEW's WMania so I'm assuming that they will do it there. The trigger is already pulled especially after last week against Rosa. Just because she's not rocking the gold at the moment doesn't mean that she's irrelevant. She's basically already the champion given her presentation and screen time.


----------



## The Wood

Lol, Roman Reigns has crossover appeal. The guy has already appeared in films and is a ratings draw.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

DammitChrist said:


> Yep, it would definitely be a nonsensical idea for them to cater towards the irrational anti-smarks. I'm glad that we've agreed upon this, and established that part


What is with people and this smark/anti smark crap?

Grow up it's not a fucking turf war. If it ever was the smarks lost a long time ago and the continual decline in fan interest, audience size and cultural relevance is evidence of that. Guess what those people that you derisively call "anti-smarks" are the very people that lifted pro wrestling from the underside of the entertainment industry to its pop-culture peak and now that they are gone all these so-called "smart" fans do is lament the very existence of anyone who isn't like them.

The anti-smarks or casual fans aren't any better mind you and it's just as annoying when they say that hardcores are the problem.

The problem is that both sides think that anything that even remotely appeals to the other over them is the problem and fail to realize that for a company like AEW or WWE to succeed to the highest possible level BOTH sides have to be appealed to.

I love pro wrestling. Whether it's Memphis from the 70s, ROH from the early 2000s NWA, AEW, and NJPW from today and damn near anything in between and I've never understood the disdain that one segment of the audience has for the other.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

RainmakerV2 said:


> Its weird if you make it weird. I can say Brad Pitt has sex appeal. Doesnt make me weird or gay.


Why would someone thinking that you are gay or weird matter?


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Prosper said:


> How's that working out in the other company though? Do Drew McIntyre, Lashley, and Reigns not fit that bill? Why aren't cable fans flocking to see them? Hogan era TV was just as bad as current day RAW so its not the quality. What is it?
> 
> 
> 
> So they fix it by pushing your favorite wrestlers. LOL. You people crack me up man seriously. I love this place.


I don't see any sex appeal on WWE TV, come back to me when Mandy Rose is doing strip teases like Sable and Trish back in the day. I might actually watch RAW if they brought the strip teases /bra & panties back.


----------



## The Wood

MonkasaurusRex said:


> Why would someone thinking that you are gay or weird matter?


Prosper brought it up.

Anti-snarks are not a thing. I cannot stress that enough people.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> Yep, it would definitely be a nonsensical idea for them to cater towards the irrational anti-smarks. I'm glad that we've agreed upon this, and established that part


Stop turning it into a smarks/anti-smarks war, it doesn't exist. We're all smarks here, nothing else.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Prosper said:


> Neither do guys with all the sex appeal in the world like Roman Reigns. Britt's moment is coming and we all know it. DON is AEW's WMania so I'm assuming that they will do it there. The trigger is already pulled especially after last week against Rosa. Just because she's not rocking the gold at the moment doesn't mean that she's irrelevant. She's basically already the champion given her presentation and screen time.


I'm not sure Britt has crossover appeal I'm not sure that she doesn't either. There really isn't any evidence to support either claim.

I mean her match with Rosa while excellent didn't equate to any appreciable increase in mainstream attention or appreciable increase in viewership to see what was next in store for Britt and/or Rosa in fact the show this week was watched by less people than the week before.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

The Wood said:


> Prosper brought it up.
> 
> Anti-snarks are not a thing. I cannot stress that enough people.


I know but Rainmaker made a point of saying that talking about males having sex appeal doesn't make him weird or gay and I'm curious as to why it even matters what some clown on the internet thinks of his sexuality.


----------



## RainmakerV2

MonkasaurusRex said:


> I know but Rainmaker made a point of saying that talking about males having sex appeal doesn't make him weird or gay and I'm curious as to why it even matters what some clown on the internet thinks of his sexuality.



I dont care lol, just responding to him saying talking about male wrestlers sex appeal is weird.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> Lol, Roman Reigns has crossover appeal. The guy has already appeared in films and is a ratings draw.


Nah, they're still struggling to hold 2 million viewers on Smackdown even with the guy being strongly featured several months later. Roman Reigns really isn't a big TV draw; but to be fair, neither is anyone else on the current roster.



MonkasaurusRex said:


> What is with people and this smark/anti smark crap?
> 
> *Grow up* it's not a fucking turf war. If it ever was the smarks lost a long time ago and the continual decline in fan interest, audience size and cultural relevance is evidence of that. Guess what those people that you derisively call "anti-smarks" are the very people that lifted pro wrestling from the underside of the entertainment industry to it's pop culture peak and now that they are gone all these so called "smart" fans do is lament the very existence of anyone who isn't like them.
> 
> The anti-smarksor casual fans aren't any better mind you and it's just as annoying when they say that hardcore are the problem.
> 
> The problem is that both sides think that anything that even remotely appeals to the other over them is the problem and fail to realize that for a company like AEW or WWE to succeed to the highest possible level BOTH sides have to be appealed to.
> 
> I love pro wrestling. Whether it's Memphis from the 70s, ROH from the early 2000s NWA, AEW, and NJPW from today and damn near anything in between and I've never understood the disdain that one segment of the audience has for the other.


Maybe if those anti-smarks weren't known for being incredibly bitter/toxic within the wrestling fanbase (actually the dirt worst out of any segment of the audience since some of them even like to troll the passionate 'smarks'), being contrarians for the sake of opposing anything that's popular with the majority (including booking decisions involving a fan favorite that could actually IMPROVE the product), being so opposed to workrate so much (even though they're still watching a WRESTLING show at the end of the day), being so nostalgic over an old era that ended 2 DECADES AGO, being so pessimistic over the current landscape of the industry due to the increasing number of good wrestlers that are out there, or being so excited over the idea of a fun alternative for (about a million of) actual wrestling fans "dying soon"; then they wouldn't receive nearly as much disdain.

Those anti-smarks are the ones who actually need to grow up. Anyway, you're right about the fact that it'd be ideal for a product to have good wrestling, solid promos, engaging characters who are able to show off their charisma, fun segments, and thrilling storylines. I don't disagree with you there at all since that's totally fair.

I'd rather just not have them do (much of) anything to appeal toward the anti-smarks since I believe they're beyond hopeless to deal with, and they're just generally toxic to the actual wrestling audience. It's best if the company actually tries catering to everyone else, but just ignore that segment of the audience tbh


----------



## CM Buck

The Wood said:


> Lol, Roman Reigns has crossover appeal. The guy has already appeared in films and is a ratings draw.


LOL you are smarter than this. I know you hate aew but to call roman a draw is just fishing for a reaction. The only true draws were cena Hogan Austin and dwayne


----------



## Aedubya

Here for Maroon 5


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, they're still struggling to hold 2 million viewers on Smackdown even with the guy being strongly featured several months later. Roman Reigns really isn't a big TV draw; but to be fair, neither is anyone else on the current roster.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe if those anti-smarks weren't known for being incredibly bitter/toxic within the wrestling fanbase (actually the dirt worst out of any segment of the audience since some of them even like to troll the passionate 'smarks'), being contrarians for the sake of opposing anything that's popular with the majority (including booking decisions involving a fan favorite that could actually IMPROVE the product), being so opposed to workrate so much (even though they're still watching a WRESTLING show at the end of the day), being so nostalgic over an old era that ended 2 DECADES AGO, being so pessimistic over the current landscape of the industry due to the increasing number of good wrestlers that are out there, or being so excited over the idea of a fun alternative for (about a million of) actual wrestling fans "dying soon"; then they wouldn't receive nearly as much disdain.
> 
> Those anti-smarks are the ones who actually need to grow up. Anyway, you're right about the fact that it'd be ideal for a product to have good wrestling, promos, engaging characters who are able to show off their charisma, fun segments, and thrilling storylines. I don't disagree with you there at all since that's totally fair.
> 
> I'd rather just not have them do (much of) anything to appeal toward the anti-smarks since I believe they're beyond hopeless to deal with, and they're just generally toxic to the actual wrestling audience. It's best if the company actually tries catering to everyone else, but just ignore that segment of the audience tbh


You do realize that bitching and moaning(as well as bemoaning that they don't like what you like in wrestling) about how toxic you think anti smarks are is just as toxic(and highly hypocritical to boot) as the behaviour you dislike from them, don't you? 

Honestly, it's a good thing you don't run a wrestling company because catering to a shrinking fanbase while not even trying to appeal to new fans(even in the hope that they become hardcore wrestling fans) is a terrible business move. Even AEW and the strange business decisions that they sometimes make isn't that far up their own ass despite what some people may claim. There's a reason they keep bringing in talent from those bygone eras that you disdain people's nostalgic attachment to. I've got news for you, it isn't for the workrate. It's to mine that nostalgic attachment hopes of growing the fanbase. It's also why they are okay with apeing/mimicking or attempting to recreate moments from the past and using celebrity involvement to try and draw in viewers. Is there more than just business on their minds when doing so? Without a doubt, and there is most definitely a self-serving aspect to it because guess what? They too have a nostalgic attachment to the past.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> I don't see any sex appeal on WWE TV, come back to me when Mandy Rose is doing strip teases like Sable and Trish back in the day. I might actually watch RAW if they brought the strip teases /bra & panties back.


Well, you seem to want to see Mandy Rose in those sexualized contexts so you must find something sexually appealing about Mandy Rose. Boom, you see sex appeal on WWE TV. You may not be getting overt titillation as the payoff to the appeal but you are seeing the appeal itself.


----------



## sideon

This thread shows the hypocrisy of the AEW fanbase. For over a year y'all laughed at NXT getting the very numbers AEW is getting right now, but now that AEW is getting those NXT numbers y'all swear it's a good rating. What's really worrying the AEW fanbase is how low the numbers are for both shows, because the belief that AEW is going to see this massive jump in the ratings once NXT moves to a different night is starting to seem less likely. If both shows were in the 800k-1mil mark then that would be possible, but since both shows are now in the 600k-700k range it's less likely that they will be a spike. If AEW does see a spike in the ratings I can't wait to see the posters who kept saying demos > ratings now all of sudden laud the ratings.


----------



## CM Buck

sideon said:


> This thread shows the hypocrisy of the AEW fanbase. For over a year y'all laughed at NXT getting the very numbers AEW is getting right now, but now that AEW is getting those NXT numbers y'all swear it's a good rating. What's really worrying the AEW fanbase is how low the numbers are for both shows, because the belief that AEW is going to see this massive jump in the ratings once NXT moves to a different night is starting to seem less likely. If both shows were in the 800k-1mil mark then that would be possible, but since both shows are now in the 600k-700k range it's less likely that they will be a spike. If AEW does see a spike in the ratings I can't wait to see the posters who kept saying demos > ratings now all of sudden laud the ratings.


There's hypocrisy on both sides man


----------



## The Wood

Firefromthegods said:


> LOL you are smarter than this. I know you hate aew but to call roman a draw is just fishing for a reaction. The only true draws were cena Hogan Austin and dwayne


I’m not saying he’s on the level of Austin, Rock, Hogan or Cena, but he does affect TV when he’s there. Didn’t he get SmackDown up something like 200k-300k viewers? ANY of the wrestling shows would KILL for someone to boost their numbers that much, even semi-regularly.

It’s part the construction of his push, part exposure, part him turning heel and part him being actually good — but to deny this guy isn’t the biggest star in wrestling right now is just silly. And if he left, wherever he was leaving would feel the crunch. Hell, Raw suffered when he left (not sure if just a general feeling or actual direct ratings impact).

You can’t have people calling Orange Cassidy a draw when he’s positioned in the best segment and does about 20k better than people when you’ve got Roman Reigns making a difference of about ten times that to an entire show and say he’s a non-factor.

Not trying to be controversial with this take, by the way. I just think we need to get off the internet mindset of a wrestler we generally don’t like (in the royal sense — I think Reigns is great), and just because they’re Vince’s choice and they fit a “mould” that seems prototypical, that this wrestler isn’t a draw.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

sideon said:


> This thread shows the hypocrisy of the AEW fanbase. For over a year y'all laughed at NXT getting the very numbers AEW is getting right now, but now that AEW is getting those NXT numbers y'all swear it's a good rating. What's really worrying the AEW fanbase is how low the numbers are for both shows, because the belief that AEW is going to see this massive jump in the ratings once NXT moves to a different night is starting to seem less likely. If both shows were in the 800k-1mil mark then that would be possible, but since both shows are now in the 600k-700k range it's less likely that they will be a spike. If AEW does see a spike in the ratings I can't wait to see the posters who kept saying demos > ratings now all of sudden laud the ratings.


AEW got in the 700s lots of times man

like tons


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> AEW got in the 700s lots of times man
> 
> like tons


The average rating of AEW is around 750K


----------



## DammitChrist

MonkasaurusRex said:


> You do realize that bitching and moaning(as well as bemoaning that they don't like what you like in wrestling) about how toxic you think anti smarks are is just as toxic(and highly hypocritical to boot) as the behaviour you dislike from them, don't you?
> 
> Honestly, it's a good thing you don't run a wrestling company because catering to a shrinking fanbase while not even trying to appeal to new fans(even in the hope that they become hardcore wrestling fans) is a terrible business move. Even AEW and the strange business decisions that they sometimes make isn't that far up their own ass despite what some people may claim. There's a reason they keep bringing in talent from those bygone eras that you disdain people's nostalgic attachment to. I've got news for you, it isn't for the workrate. It's to mine that nostalgic attachment hopes of growing the fanbase. It's also why they are okay with apeing/mimicking or attempting to recreate moments from the past and using celebrity involvement to try and draw in viewers. Is there more than just business on their minds when doing so? Without a doubt, and there is most definitely a self-serving aspect to it because guess what? They too have a nostalgic attachment to the past.


I only "complained" because I assumed that you wanted an explanation for my stance, so there's really nothing "hypocritical" from me at all honestly. We're really not in total disagreement about what we'd prefer in an ideal product.


----------



## omaroo

Even though 750k seems to be their average. 

If they get consistency and better booking they can come closer to a million come end of this year regularly. 

NXT potentially moving to Tuesdays in a couple of weeks may give them a slight increase but not by much I wouldn't imagine.


----------



## RapShepard

@MonkasaurusRex out here putting @DammitChrist in a bodybag. Come on DC you have better points than what you're making. Argue real points instead of your "fuck anti-smarks" trolling points


----------



## Kentucky34

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, they're still struggling to hold 2 million viewers on Smackdown even with the guy being strongly featured several months later. Roman Reigns really isn't a big TV draw; but to be fair, neither is anyone else on the current roster.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe if those anti-smarks weren't known for being incredibly bitter/toxic within the wrestling fanbase (actually the dirt worst out of any segment of the audience since some of them even like to troll the passionate 'smarks'), being contrarians for the sake of opposing anything that's popular with the majority (including booking decisions involving a fan favorite that could actually IMPROVE the product), being so opposed to workrate so much (even though they're still watching a WRESTLING show at the end of the day), being so nostalgic over an old era that ended 2 DECADES AGO, being so pessimistic over the current landscape of the industry due to the increasing number of good wrestlers that are out there, or being so excited over the idea of a fun alternative for (about a million of) actual wrestling fans "dying soon"; then they wouldn't receive nearly as much disdain.
> 
> Those anti-smarks are the ones who actually need to grow up. Anyway, you're right about the fact that it'd be ideal for a product to have good wrestling, solid promos, engaging characters who are able to show off their charisma, fun segments, and thrilling storylines. I don't disagree with you there at all since that's totally fair.
> 
> I'd rather just not have them do (much of) anything to appeal toward the anti-smarks since I believe they're beyond hopeless to deal with, and they're just generally toxic to the actual wrestling audience. It's best if the company actually tries catering to everyone else, but just ignore that segment of the audience tbh


Everything you say is right. 

AEW's core audience are just as annoying. Imagine thinking that Omega as champion and Orange Cassidy would increase viewership numbers.

Anti-smarks suck and AEW has dropped the ball over the past year. Both deserve criticism.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

omaroo said:


> Even though 750k seems to be their average.
> 
> If they get consistency and better booking they can come closer to a million come end of this year regularly.
> 
> NXT potentially moving to Tuesdays in a couple of weeks may give them a slight increase but not by much I wouldn't imagine.


They come close to a million when the news is quiet and when Challenge and Desperate housewives are off season - then the ladies demo rises

other than those times 700 - 800 was average


----------



## NathanMayberry

LifeInCattleClass said:


> They come close to a million when the news is quiet and when Challenge and Desperate housewives are off season - then the ladies demo rises


Desperate Housewives hasn't been on the air since 2012.



> other than those times 700 - 800 was average


Continued shitty booking will turn that 700-800 average into 650-750 very soon. The need to always find external factors for AEW's stagnancy/decline should stop.


----------



## Klitschko

Firefromthegods said:


> LOL you are smarter than this. I know you hate aew but to call roman a draw is just fishing for a reaction. The only true draws were cena Hogan Austin and dwayne


He is a slight draw though. They were getting around 1.7-1.9 for a little while and when he returned as a heel the ratings instantly went up and have stayed at 2-2.3 million mark on average. Even when we remove that one episode when like 4 million people tunned in. But yea, even as a fan, I can't say that he is some massive draw, but still a draw. I know its not a huge amount but the AEW super fans in this section would shit themselves if a single wrestler brought up the ratings by a couple of hundred thousand.


----------



## thorn123

Expected rating ... there is just no appetite for quality wrestling nowadays.


----------



## .christopher.

La Parka said:


> AEW has drawn very poorly since the PPV.
> 
> I wonder if that event was the final straw for people.
> 
> Customers work hard for their money, if you shit in their face, most won’t ever come back. I know I will never buy an aew ppv again and I’m sure others feel the same.
> 
> AEW has done very little to get goodwill back from their customers. Christian says the fans are fickle because there was literally not a single soul who was hyped for his AEW debut and Tony Khan had some lame ass “well what did you expect” in response to this decades biggest botch.


Great post.

Whilst everyone was raving about their ppv numbers, I said that could cause more long term damage than success as the more people that watched that trainwreck, the more people AEW would run off. Guess what's happened since?

They've fucking butchered Christian. As you point out, he's now in the position to defend himself and his booking, and it's only making him come across like a whiny bitch. You're new, highly paid, star. Even a big fan of his such as myself is like "shut up, dude". Tony's booking, folks.


DammitChrist said:


> As usual, you’re wrong considering the fact that the show (definitely) deserves more viewers since it’s consistently a fun product for genuine wrestling fans.


If I had a pound for everytime you were wrong I could start my own wrestling company and play money mark like Tony.

No, AEW doesn't deserve more viewers because they don't try to attract new ones. They put no effort in. They cater to the few hundred thousand outlaw mudshow fans, give wrestling fans the middle finger, and feel content with their current fanbase. That's only dwindling, btw. No growth whatsoever.

Their decision to cater to the outlaw mudshow clique has cost them, and wrestling in general. Catering to that bunch is why wrestling is in fact dying.


----------



## Klitschko

Current AEW reminds me of when I brought my dad to the theaters to watch Avengers Infinity war and he never read comic books before or watched any of the previous movies. He was confused as fuck with what was happening and didn't end up liking it at all. That's what AEW is. If you're not familiar with Impact, ROH, NJPW, AAA, WWE, MLW and every single other indy company in the world, then screw you. This company isn't for you and they don't try to be for you. That's what AEW tells me basically.


----------



## 3venflow

Their numbers are pretty much similar to last year but with fewer 800-900k spikes so far. Last year had a period of three months when they hit 800k only once and struggled to get out of the 600ks for a long time. But last year also had a five week run of over 800k, so you have to look at the average number, not short-term increases and decreases.

A month ago they did 831k and followed it up with 932k. Then three shows in the 700ks. The average for the most recent five shows is 806k.

The average for 2021 in total so far is 781k viewers per episode, down 3.7% on last year's average rating. That includes the January 6th edition that was decimated by the capitol riots and did a well below average 662k. The key demographic is also consistent.

The changes are so minute that they are barely relevant for a network like TNT, especially as they continue to rank in the top 6 on cable most weeks.

And with NXT moving nights, the average is almost certain to go up some. How much remains to be seen. Like I said, they should treat the April 14 show as a big event, it'll be their first night unopposed since 9/9/20 when they did 1,016,000 for a show with Dustin vs. Brodie, Jericho/Hager vs. Janela/Kiss, Orange Cassidy vs. Angelico and Nyla vs. Tay. This gives them a chance to add to that 700k-plus core audience that is always tuning in.


----------



## .christopher.

Sinking. Even with big signings like Sting, FTR, Miro, Show, Christian, and getting people like Mike Tyson, Snoop Dogg and Shaq to feature, the numbers - over a long period of time - are continuously sinking.


----------



## rbl85

Sometime i don't know why i "unignore" someone because i don't exactly remember why that person was on the ignore list......

Usually 1 post is enough to remind me why XD


----------



## DammitChrist

RapShepard said:


> @MonkasaurusRex out here putting @DammitChrist in a bodybag. Come on DC you have better points than what you're making. Argue real points instead of your "fuck anti-smarks" trolling points


Thanks, but I’m not anywhere close to being in a ‘grave’ 

My point about them from yesterday still stands though :cudi



.christopher. said:


> If I had a pound for everytime you were wrong I could start my own wrestling company and play money mark like Tony.
> 
> No, AEW doesn't deserve more viewers because they don't try to attract new ones. They put no effort in. They cater to the few hundred thousand outlaw mudshow fans, give wrestling fans the middle finger, and feel content with their current fanbase. That's only dwindling, btw. No growth whatsoever.
> 
> Their decision to cater to the outlaw mudshow clique has cost them, and wrestling in general. Catering to that bunch is why wrestling is in fact dying.


Nah, you’d be going broke on Day 1 if you made a bet on how many times I’m “wrong” (which rarely happens here btw) 

Anyway, wrestling isn’t dying at all considering the fact that promotions like WWE, AEW, NJPW, and MLW are still alive; but are also not going anywhere any time soon. 

Hell, TNA/Impact is STILL around nowadays and aren’t dead (even though they are pretty much in life support atm). 

The wrestling industry isn’t “dying” at all. There’s still plenty of alternatives for many wrestling fans that are just doing the opposite.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW did its record number on ITV4 for the March 12th episode (taped March 10th)... 189,000 and it started at 11:35pm too.

Meanwhile the quarter hours are out...

Darby Allin again brings in the fans. Within the AEW world, he is a draw and has popped some good numbers for them. Look at the key demo too for his match with Silver, an undercard challenger.


----------



## rbl85

Once again the quarters with the lowest number of viewers were the one with a lot of promo


----------



## DammitChrist

rbl85 said:


> Once again the quarters with the lowest number of viewers were the one with a lot of promo


Wow, that's weird though. 

I could've sworn that promos were 'more' important than anything else in wrestling :lol


----------



## Wolf Mark

La Parka said:


> AEW has drawn very poorly since the PPV.
> 
> I wonder if that event was the final straw for people.
> 
> Customers work hard for their money, if you shit in their face, most won’t ever come back. I know I will never buy an aew ppv again and I’m sure others feel the same.
> 
> AEW has done very little to get goodwill back from their customers. Christian says the fans are fickle because there was literally not a single soul who was hyped for his AEW debut and Tony Khan had some lame ass “well what did you expect” in response to this decades biggest botch.


Yea my thinking as well. I think it might be a mix of the true die hards for the first time being actually embarrassed by their favorite company or losing faith and the casuals realising that there's nothing there. There has been many back to back blunders with the non-exploding ring to the underwhelming appearance of Big Show and Christian. And then the underwhelming run of heel Champ Omega. It was the first time I had ever seen a promotion where there's not a bump in ratings after a PPV. Never happened in the WWE in their long history even when they are doing poorly. Never happened with Impact. And things like blaming the fans from Christian and AEW for expecting too much is not the way to go. You never ever blame the audience for your failures. It makes you look petty, it turns them away from what you are doing. If people do not respond, it's your fault.


----------



## rbl85

Wolf Mark said:


> Yea my thinking as well. I think it might be a mix of the true die hards for the first time being actually embarrassed by their favorite company or losing faith and the casuals realising that there's nothing there. There has been many back to back blunders with the non-exploding ring to the underwhelming appearance of Big Show and Christian. And then the underwhelming run of heel Champ Omega. It was the first time I had ever seen a promotion where there's not a bump in ratings after a PPV. *Never happened in the WWE *in their long history even when they are doing poorly. Never happened with Impact. And things like blaming the fans from Christian and AEW for expecting too much is not the way to go. You never ever blame the audience for your failures. It makes you look petty, it turns them away from what you are doing. If people do not respond, it's your fault.


Hum it happened a lot to the WWE lately for exemple RAW lost viewers after Fastlane.


----------



## Kentucky34

Workrate matters more than promos. 

AEW's workrate isn't good enough though. Omega has always been overrated in the ring.


----------



## Not Lying

Wow!
Darby is indeed one of the biggest draws for AEW. That's a big Moxley-like increase for the main event.


----------



## Wolf Mark

rbl85 said:


> Hum it happened a lot to the WWE lately for exemple RAW lost viewers after Fastlane.


Well then wresting is fucked lol

But in the case of the WWE, ever since their PPV are on a network, it's not the same dynamic. As their PPV are less of an event. When it's a paid PPV and you only do 3 a year, and you have a show afterwards, it's strange that there's no bumps.


----------



## Prosper

The Definition of Technician said:


> Wow!
> Darby is indeed one of the biggest draws for AEW. That's a big Moxley-like increase for the main event.


Darby Allin is the man. I don’t know how anyone could not like him despite his size. Incredible character and presence. He has really been coming off like a star since beating Cody at Full Gear and working with Sting right after.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Kentucky34 said:


> Workrate matters more than promos.
> 
> AEW's workrate isn't good enough though. Omega has always been overrated in the ring.


Saying that AEW workrate is bad is one of the critics i wouldn't have expected to see...🙃


----------



## One Shed

Prosper said:


> Darby Allin is the man. I don’t know how anyone could not like him despite his size. Incredible character and presence. He has really been coming off like a star since beating Cody at Full Gear and working with Sting right after.


Yup. I think just about everyone really likes Darby, even Cornette.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Kentucky34 said:


> I think AEW's biggest problem right now is Omega. He just isn't a draw as champion or otherwise.
> 
> Even Moxley was better.


I have my qualms about Mox as a wrestler and character but we have to admit, he was always a draw. Always. I watched the ratings every week back in the day and it was a constant, whatever AEW was doing, they could at least count on Mox for ratings. 

And it's strange when you have a proven rating draw that you make a switch and then the guy falls in basically mid cards. The WWF would have never done that with Austin. Not only that, but the guy that gets the title from him who becomes "the guy" had been trash character-wise for ages in AEW and they only started to build him a little bit with one tournament and fans are supposed to buy this guy as a star? When you have been telling them that he was not worth to push beforehand. I like the new Omega heel character but it's hard to buy him seriously as the guy. And to me the Good Brothers are just jobbers.


----------



## Garty

3venflow said:


> AEW did its record number on ITV4 for the March 12th episode (taped March 10th)... 189,000 and it started at 11:35pm too.
> 
> Meanwhile the quarter hours are out...
> 
> Darby Allin again brings in the fans. Within the AEW world, he is a draw and has popped some good numbers for them. Look at the key demo too for his match with Silver, an undercard challenger.
> 
> View attachment 99225


I appreciate the "new look" quarter breakdowns kind sir. 

On topic though, where do the viewers go then? They're not switching over to NXT (with Q4 being an exception and I believe had a commercial break right before and/or during the start of Q4), so it doesn't really make sense. Anyway, it is what it is and as usual, what the hell do we know?!


----------



## The Wood

Even if NXT is changing nights (wasn’t that debunked), a thing people need to remember (that a lot have actually seemed to grasp): People aren’t prioritising NXT as opposed to AEW. That is more likely to go the other way (people watch NXT later). There is more “urgency” around AEW, at least within the bubble. NXT is likely to see a bigger boost than AEW does.

And even so, you do have to ask the question “Are they just getting a bigger audience to disappoint?” There’s a reason those people aren’t living and dying with this. Sometimes it is better to “suck” (whether or not you think AEW does or doesn’t is kind of irrelevant) in front of a smaller crowd than a larger one. In fact, that’s most times.

I think people are still expecting wrestling fans to “discover” AEW and really like it. I don’t know why that is or why they think it’s likely or even possible. The active wrestling fans left that don’t know about AEW are probably content with their less sloppy WWE product. They aren’t hungry for that cheap knockoff. And the active fans who would like AEW probably saw more potential at the start. Your biggest audience booster is lapsed fans or new fans, and I think AEW not appealing to them comes down to them being content being too arcane and niche, as well as doing a lot of the stuff that drove fans away (silliness, taking the piss, mocking wrestling, bad booking, no stars, repetitive matches, lack of psychology, etc.).

As for Darby: As much as I don’t like him as a person, I’m closer to distancing myself from that than I am, say, taking Miro seriously. Darby’s work is pretty great. He’s been the one guy that the booking hasn’t hurt. Right now, he’d be my pick to take the World Title off Omega. The belt collector thing people keep talking about is right there. Darby has a belt. He can challenge Omega before he gets to him.

Since you’re paying seven figures for Sting in 2021, you might as well have him out there with a baseball bat to chase off the heels and celebrate with Darby. He can vacate the TNT Title and you can do a Brodie Lee Memorial Tournament for the belt. Or you can just retire it. On the same show, I’d do Pinnacle vs. Inner Circle and Christian Cage vs. Cody Rhodes, with Cody winning that so he can position himself as a heel for Darby (although I wouldn’t even necessarily give them a title match — could just be for personal pride and Darby can win even though he’s not defending the belt).

I think that would be a better way forward than what they’re doing.


----------



## 3venflow

A more detailed breakdown of the QHs c/o 411.

*AEW*
Q1: Kenny Omega vs. Matt Sydal – 807,000 viewers, 392,000 in 18-49
Q2: Adam Page vs. Cezar Bononi/Lance Archer, Thunder Rosa and Britt Baker interviews – 740,000 viewers (down 67,000), 383,000 in 18-49 (down 12,000)
Q3: Christian segment, FTR and Shawn Spears vs. Varsity Blondes and Dante Martin – 710,000 viewers (down 30,000), 367,000 in 18-49 (down 16,000)
Q4: Pinnacle promo, Team Taz promo, Start of Young Bucks & Brandon Cutler vs. Lucha Bros & Laredo Kid – 727,000 viewers (up 17,000), 367,000 in 18-49 (even)
Q5: Young Bucks & Brandon Cutler vs. Lucha Bros & Laredo Kid, Post-Match with Kenny Omega – 765,000 viewers (up 38,000), 381,000 in 18-49 (up 14,000)
Q6: Jade Cargill Vignette, Rhodes Announcement, Kingston & Moxley promo, Start of Tay Conti vs. Nyla Rose – 742,000 viewers (down 23,000), 381,000 in 18-49 (even)
Q7: End of Rose vs. Conti, Post-Match Segment – 749,000 viewers (up 7,000), 380,000 in 18-49 (down 1,000)
Q8: John Silver vs. Darby Allin – 817,000 viewers (up 68,000), 412,000 in 18-49 (up 32,000)

*NXT*
Q1: Raquel Gonzalez & Dakota Kai vs. Io Shirai & Zoey Stark – 730,000 viewers, 183,000 in 18-49
Q2: End of Tag Match, Adam Cole & Kyle O’Reilly Fight, Promos, LA Knight vs. Bronson Reed – 701,000 viewers (down 29,000), 174,000 in 18-49 (down 9,000)
Q3: Reed vs. Knight – 722,000 viewers (up 21,000), 185,000 in 18-49 (up 11,000)
Q4: Karrion Kross vs. Oney Lorcan – 650,000 viewers (down 72,000), 170,000 in 18-49 (down 15,000)
Q5: Finn Balor & Kross Promo, Regal’s Announcement, WALTER vs. Drake Maverick – 685,000 viewers (up 35,000), 194,000 in 18-49 (up 24,000)
Q6: Imperium Attacks Tommaso Ciampa, Johnny Gargano & Regal Segment, Moon & Blackheart vs. Martinez & Aliyah – 661,000 viewers (down 24,000), 188,000 in 18-49 (down 6,000)
Q7: Cameron Grimes vs. Roderick Strong, Women’s Tag Team Segment, Start of Jordan Devlin vs. Kushida – 635,000 viewers (down 26,000), 188,000 in 18-49 (even)
Q8: Devlin vs. Kushida – 640,000 viewers (up 5,000), 174,000 in 18-49 (down 14,000)
Overrun: Cole & O’Reilly Contract Signing – 679,000 viewers (up 39,000), 197,000 in 18-49 (up 23,000)

*Notes*
AEW had an 0.09 in 12-17 (down 25% from last week), 0.13 in 18-34 (down 6.2%), 0.47 in 35-49 (up 8.5%) and 0.28 in 50+ (down 9.7%). The audience was 71.1% male in 18-49 and 65.7% male in 12-17. NXT had an 0.11 in 12-17 (up 10%, beating AEW), 0.08 in 18-34 (up 7.3%), 0.20 in 35-49 (up 4.6%) and 0.40 in 50+ (up 17.6%). NXT was 59.6% male in 18-49 and 81% male in 12-17.


----------



## CM Buck

.christopher. said:


> Sinking. Even with big signings like Sting, FTR, Miro, Show, Christian, and getting people like Mike Tyson, Snoop Dogg and Shaq to feature, the numbers - over a long period of time - are continuously sinking.


1. Jim cornette doesn't belong in this thread.

2. Stop expressing your opinion as if its fact

AEW's numbers are fine. And until TNT says otherwise their numbers are not a concern


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

DaveRA said:


> Expected rating ... there is just no appetite for quality wrestling nowadays.


There is definitely an appetite for quality wrestling it's just that the number of people with and appetite for it isn't overwhelmingly large. It likely never was. What is a damn near proven fact is that when wrestling is at its most popular a majority of the people watching it aren't in it for the wrestling (quality or otherwise).


----------



## La Parka

DaveRA said:


> Expected rating ... there is just no appetite for quality wrestling nowadays.


We may never know if there’s an appetite for quality wrestling nowadays.

No one wants to provide it.


----------



## VIP86

AEW is still getting the regular average of viewership
i won't start worrying until they start to get below 700k regularly

i wish i knew what TNT expected from them in terms of numbers when they signed


----------



## The Wood

There’s no reason you cannot get Raw numbers entering the exact same number of homes with a similar, but allegedly better and fresher product. There’s no reason at all other than “But it’s WWE and they’ve been around forever” like that means anything. That’s the marketplace you were entering.

I’m not saying they are spitting venom they’re only getting a fraction of that. But don’t listen to Meltzer’s 500k crap.


----------



## DaSlacker

La Parka said:


> We may never know if there’s an appetite for quality wrestling nowadays.
> 
> No one wants to provide it.


Nobody knows how to or has the balls to sell it. 

Back in the late 90's, when wrestling was actually fresh and unique, the peak viewership was something like 7 million viewers (head to head). Before online streaming and dvr became the norm. 

Wrestling now offers neither originality or believability or gritty realism. It's just same old... Glimpses of the old magic for those who love the genre: MJF promos for the old school territory fan, Moxley promos for the Attitude Era fan, Cody matches for the NWA/WCW fan, Darby for the ECW fan, Bucks and friends for fans of the wild lucha/cruiserweight stuff. Mostly it's just inconsistent performance art. That can only go so far - a very small niche audience watches gymnastics or ice dancing etc. 

The other issue is AEW entered into a crowded niche market. Established brand WWE already offers sports entertainment on a Monday night at 9pm (3 damn hours of it now) and has done for 36 years straight. People put this stuff on out of habit and can get more than their fill of the genre there. Then there's the two hours on a Friday. Impact, MLW, ROH and obscure indies can all be found on a national level and due to technology have decent production values. 

Back when Bischoff got ambitious and created Nitro, the amount of televised wrestling had condensed greatly. It was either really low budget and filmed on analogue tape and only available in certain areas. Or WWF's squash match filled one hour Raw and Action Zone on a weekend. 

McMahon was booking HHH vs Bob Holly, Bischoff had Hogan vs Sting and Flair vs Arn. Khan is trying to set the world on fire with Kenny Omega vs Evan Bourne whereas McMahon is now booking WWE champion vs former WWE champion in a throwaway match and the biggest matches the NXT brand has to offer. 

Talk about against the grain.


----------



## 3venflow

If RAW vs. Nitro was happening today, I don't think the ratings would be as high anyway. It's a trend that ratings have been going down and down across the board. Streaming is just getting bigger and bigger with cable TV on the decline. No one has to watch anything live these days to keep up either.

People talk about AEW losing viewers since their debut show with 1.4m and then 1.1m and 1m for their second and third shows, but it's not just them. Smackdown did 3.8m viewers that same week for their FOX premiere, lost 1m by the next week and are now clinging to the 2m mark.


----------



## Wolf Mark

3venflow said:


> If RAW vs. Nitro was happening today, I don't think the ratings would be as high anyway. It's a trend that ratings have been going down and down across the board. Streaming is just getting bigger and bigger with cable TV on the decline. No one has to watch anything live these days to keep up either.
> 
> People talk about AEW losing viewers since their debut show with 1.4m and then 1.1m and 1m for their second and third shows, but it's not just them. Smackdown did 3.8m viewers that same week for their FOX premiere, lost 1m by the next week and are now clinging to the 2m mark.


How many excuses you're gonna need? lol You are talking about the heights of quality as far as wrestling. Where you had absolutely two juggernauts going at it. You don't think their success had anything to do with high ratings. Giving the excuse that "it could not happen today cause of streaming" cannot possibly being proven cause it will never happen again cause wrestling quality-wise is in a freefall. Give me two titans going at it today and we would be able to properly judge if you are right or not. As of now, it's sour grapes.


----------



## The Wood

An element to the discussion that people forget is that wrestling used to drive people towards cable. It was the most popular show and the war between Raw and Nitro sucked more people into its orbit over time. They weren’t scavenging for scraps of a whole.

Yes, people are cutting chords. But yes, cable is still in more than 100 million homes. There is still an audience of millions out there, and some shows actually do them (if you stop looking at the demos for the moment).

It’s wrestling’s fault that people don’t want to watch it. If they did, they would.


----------



## Wolf Mark

The Wood said:


> An element to the discussion that people forget is that wrestling used to drive people towards cable. It was the most popular show and the war between Raw and Nitro sucked more people into its orbit over time. They weren’t scavenging for scraps of a whole.
> 
> Yes, people are cutting chords. But yes, cable is still in more than 100 million homes. There is still an audience of millions out there, and some shows actually do them (if you stop looking at the demos for the moment).
> 
> It’s wrestling’s fault that people don’t want to watch it. If they did, they would.


I had the same discussions about magazines. I heard many times how the internet hurt movie magazines cause now you could get news from the net, people were not reading anymore and there is truth to it but I will say as someone who used to buy many movie magazines since the 80s, when the mags started to go, the quality had become so trash across the board. In my opinion when you do quality, people will come. I didn't stop buying them cause they were not available, I stopped buying cause of the lack of quality. A small publisher like the horror mag "Rue Morgue" over here in Canada continued on cause they maintained their quality and yet a bigger mag like Fangoria almost was cancelled many times because it had lost steam.


----------



## The Wood

Wolf Mark said:


> I had the same discussions about magazines. I heard many times how the internet hurt movie magazines cause now you could get news from the net, people were not reading anymore and there is truth to it but I will say as someone who used to buy many movie magazines since the 80s, when the mags started to go, the quality had become so trash across the board. In my opinion when you do quality, people will come. I didn't stop buying them cause they were not available, I stopped buying cause of the lack of quality. A small publisher like the horror mag "Rue Morgue" over here in Canada continued on cause they maintained their quality and yet a bigger mag like Fangoria almost was cancelled many times because it had lost steam.


Great insight. There’s this mentality in media and entertainment that I kind of loathe, which places the onus on the customer. I’ve even seen it on The Simpsons (perhaps where the idea gained traction and to vent their frustrations with initial downturn in the show’s popularity and reactions to its quality). “They give you free entertainment, what right do you have to complain?” Well, nothing is really free, and it’s not unfair for fans to demand quality. And it goes hand-in-hand with the idea that intentionality = actuality.

By that I mean, a lot of content creators think that if they intend to make something funny, then that thing is funny. So if it gets trashed “it’s just a joke” is a defence. I make jokes, audience should laugh. If they don’t, it’s their fault. No — to make another Simpsons reference — “stupid TV...be more funny.”

Just because you set out to make something good. Just because you think it’s good. Just because you may be talented. Just because it ended up exactly how you envisioned it. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t suck. That’s in the eye of the beholder. When it leaves you, it’s theirs.

No one wants to take responsibility for their shitty output. It can be embarrassing. It can be frustrating. It can be ego-crushing. It can make you feel like you’re completely out of touch and don’t know what you’re doing. Your entire identity can be challenged when people reject a labour of love of yours. But you need to be able to kill your darlings. And you need to remember that just because I did it, it doesn’t mean that it’s good.


----------



## 3venflow

Wolf Mark said:


> How many excuses you're gonna need? lol You are talking about the heights of quality as far as wrestling. Where you had absolutely two juggernauts going at it.


Excuses for what exactly? What am I excusing here? I have no more investment in AEW 2021 or WWE 2021 than I had in WCW 1998 or WWF 1998.

In terms of average ratings: Smackdown is down, RAW is down, NXT is down, AEW is down, IMPACT is down. The WWE programs are falling year by year and have been for a while. And while it is indeed part down to the industry being cold, you cannot dismiss the effect of the changing TV world.

If the TV industry right now was exactly as it was in 1998, all of these shows would be doing better ratings than they are. Absolute fact. There would be no streaming or DVR so people would be more inclined to watch them as they happened. Of course they would still be millions below what the MNW shows were doing because there are no big stars or concepts now, but all pro wrestling today is handicapped by this.









Cable TV's slow, painful death


Linear broadcasts, studio shows, content designed for the masses are becoming a thing of the past.




www.axios.com





If the MNWs were happening right now, my guess is they'd be doing live ratings of at least 30% below than what they did.



> Give me two titans going at it today and we would be able to properly judge if you are right or not. As of now, it's sour grapes.


We can look at year-on-year trends and see that all programming of this style is down due to the changes in how people are consuming TV.









Why Sports TV Ratings Will Likely Still Suffer In 2021


Sports TV ratings plummeted this year, and it doesn’t look like they’ll surge back 2021, either. The pandemic has likely changed viewing habits forever.




www.forbes.com





I have no idea where the 'sour grapes' comments comes from. The Monday Night Wars were my favourite era in pro wrestling and I loved WCW (look at my av), so it's not like I'm trying to downplay them.


----------



## The Wood

It’s likely that they would be doing better numbers back then (almost certain), but they would be doing even better numbers if they were engaging. There is no reason intriguing content cannot build an audience. People don’t really expect 7 million people to watch. But 7 million people _used_ to watch and don’t any more, and most of it isn’t because of cable cutting.


----------



## 3venflow

PW Torch has an article about the viewership totals, ie. including people who watch the days after. Bold part is relevant.

AEW Dynamite and NXT on USA tied with 0.55 cable household ratings, but AEW outdrew NXT in other metrics that count the most. AEW outdrew NXT with 757,000 total viewers compared to 678,000 for NXT. The difference was just 79,000, though; AEW’s average lead this year is 132,000.

The last three weeks, since the Shaq tag match, has averaged 756,000 viewers. The first eight weeks of the year, AEW averaged 772,000 viewers. By comparison, NXT has drawn 655,000 the last three weeks compared to 668,000 viewers. Both shows are down slightly in those two three-week periods.

In the 18-49 demo, AEW outdrew NXT as usual, by a wide margin – 0.30 to 0.14. In the male 18-49 demo, the lead was bigger – 0.42 to 0.17. Among men 18-34, it was a little closer – 0.16 to 0.10.

In the cable rankings, in the 18-49 demo, AEW landed at no. 6 and NXT at no. 29. Two NBA games were among those edging out AEW with demo ratings 0.38 and 0.32 compared to AEW’s 0.30.

We also have updated 3-day viewership totals for last week. The March 17 AEW episode grew to 968,000 viewers (up 200,000 from 768,000). NXT grew to 707,000 (up 110,000 from 597,000). Keep in mind, NXT replays on WWE Network 24 hours after its USA Network premier, and viewership there is not added to cable viewership 3-day viewership totals.

Updated 7-day totals through the Mar. 3 episodes:

*-AEW Dynamite has averaged 1,039,500 million viewers per episode in 2021 through Mar. 3.*

-NXT on USA has averaged 772,000 viewers per episode in 2021 through Mar. 3









AEW vs. NXT Ratings Report: Latest episodes tied in ratings, but AEW ahead in key metrics, latest 3-day and 7-day viewership data - Pro Wrestling Torch


AEW Dynamite and NXT on USA tied with 0.55 cable household ratings, but AEW outdrew NXT in other metrics that count the most. AEW outdrew NXT with 757,000 total viewers compared to 678,000 for NXT. [...]




www.pwtorch.com


----------



## The Wood

Why is the bolded part important? Does anyone care about the 3-day plus ratings? Advertisers aren’t interested in that, because you can skip over ads. Wrestling gets its money for live entertainment.

I find it more interesting that when you break the viewership down to its actual rating, they’re the same at 0.55.


----------



## 3venflow

Because it reveals how many people are watching Dynamite after it has aired live. 28% of people who are watching Dynamite are not doing so live. It's interesting for people who like to look at numbers beyond numbers. Many more casual observers of the ratings would be interested in that than what advertisers think.

Data like this is not usually easy to find and is a lot more relevant than half of the stuff posted in this thread. But hey, some may construe it as a positive so I understand that you have to quickly try and shut it down, since that's your gig. Vince good, Tony bad, etc.


----------



## Wolf Mark

The Wood said:


> Great insight. There’s this mentality in media and entertainment that I kind of loathe, which places the onus on the customer. I’ve even seen it on The Simpsons (perhaps where the idea gained traction and to vent their frustrations with initial downturn in the show’s popularity and reactions to its quality). “They give you free entertainment, what right do you have to complain?” Well, nothing is really free, and it’s not unfair for fans to demand quality. And it goes hand-in-hand with the idea that intentionality = actuality.
> 
> By that I mean, a lot of content creators think that if they intend to make something funny, then that thing is funny. So if it gets trashed “it’s just a joke” is a defence. I make jokes, audience should laugh. If they don’t, it’s their fault. No — to make another Simpsons reference — “stupid TV...be more funny.”
> 
> Just because you set out to make something good. Just because you think it’s good. Just because you may be talented. Just because it ended up exactly how you envisioned it. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t suck. That’s in the eye of the beholder. When it leaves you, it’s theirs.
> 
> No one wants to take responsibility for their shitty output. It can be embarrassing. It can be frustrating. It can be ego-crushing. It can make you feel like you’re completely out of touch and don’t know what you’re doing. Your entire identity can be challenged when people reject a labour of love of yours. But you need to be able to kill your darlings. And you need to remember that just because I did it, it doesn’t mean that it’s good.


They are in their echo chambers all praising themselves. So they are shocked when it's not reality. Especially in recent years I've seen a lot of entertainment companies blaming their clients. I don't know if it has to do with the spoiled babies generation but I would say more old school people from other generations saw the audience as King and they never even think about blaming them. They were intelligent enought to realise the moment you start playing the victim and blaming the client for not liking what you do, you are toast. Cause then you insult them and they will never comeback. You exist because of them and if you want to keep them then make them happy, praise them even. It's your fault that you did not produce something good enough to please them. As a movie fan I often saw old producers talk about this and blaming themselves that they missed the boat and that they "did not respect their audience". Which I think is pretty admirable. Well it's smart, at least.


----------



## Wolf Mark

3venflow said:


> Excuses for what exactly? What am I excusing here? I have no more investment in AEW 2021 or WWE 2021 than I had in WCW 1998 or WWF 1998.
> 
> In terms of average ratings: Smackdown is down, RAW is down, NXT is down, AEW is down, IMPACT is down. The WWE programs are falling year by year and have been for a while. And while it is indeed part down to the industry being cold, you cannot dismiss the effect of the changing TV world.
> 
> If the TV industry right now was exactly as it was in 1998, all of these shows would be doing better ratings than they are. Absolute fact. There would be no streaming or DVR so people would be more inclined to watch them as they happened. Of course they would still be millions below what the MNW shows were doing because there are no big stars or concepts now, but all pro wrestling today is handicapped by this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cable TV's slow, painful death
> 
> 
> Linear broadcasts, studio shows, content designed for the masses are becoming a thing of the past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.axios.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If the MNWs were happening right now, my guess is they'd be doing live ratings of at least 30% below than what they did.
> 
> 
> 
> We can look at year-on-year trends and see that all programming of this style is down due to the changes in how people are consuming TV.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Sports TV Ratings Will Likely Still Suffer In 2021
> 
> 
> Sports TV ratings plummeted this year, and it doesn’t look like they’ll surge back 2021, either. The pandemic has likely changed viewing habits forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea where the 'sour grapes' comments comes from. The Monday Night Wars were my favourite era in pro wrestling and I loved WCW (look at my av), so it's not like I'm trying to downplay them.


WWE has lost viewers cause they have sucked more and more and more over the years. It has nothing to do with the TV landscape whatever.


----------



## The Wood

The same with AEW.


----------



## thorn123

I don’t think the product has changed as much as people think ... people’s taste is what has changed. Short of another Austin or Hogan, wrestling will continue a downward trend. As an AEW fan I hope they can buck or at least delay that trend.


----------



## Aedubya

If NXT does move I still don't expect Dynamite to get 1mill regularly

.89- ish will be their average


----------



## TD Stinger

My guess is that after NXT goes to Tuesdays, AEW will do around 850k regularly as opposed to 750k. And NXT will go from 600k-700k to around 750k weekly. AEW will get closer to .35 in the demo weekly and NXT will get closer to .20 in the demo weekly.

Again, not a ratings expert but that's my guess.


----------



## The Wood

DaveRA said:


> I don’t think the product has changed as much as people think ... people’s taste is what has changed. Short of another Austin or Hogan, wrestling will continue a downward trend. As an AEW fan I hope they can buck or at least delay that trend.


No, wrestling has changed A LOT. It’s not the fans collectively deliding 



TD Stinger said:


> My guess is that after NXT goes to Tuesdays, AEW will do around 850k regularly as opposed to 750k. And NXT will go from 600k-700k to around 750k weekly. AEW will get closer to .35 in the demo weekly and NXT will get closer to .20 in the demo weekly.
> 
> Again, not a ratings expert but that's my guess.


I actually think NXT has a real good shot of getting a bigger increase. I bet a lot of people watch it on delay. A different night will mean they don’t necessarily have to do that. I can see them overtaking AEW in terms of overall viewership if they change nights.


----------



## Bubbly2

DammitChrist said:


> Wow, that's weird though.
> 
> I could've sworn that promos were 'more' important than anything else in wrestling :lol





Kentucky34 said:


> Workrate matters more than promos.
> 
> AEW's workrate isn't good enough though. Omega has always been overrated in the ring.


It's because the majority of fans who like promos, larger than life personas etc don't watch anymore. You're left with only hardcores, and workrate matters more to that group - hence it probably draws more with the existing audience that AEW has.


----------



## The Wood

The in-ring work and the promos are all part of a package. I don’t know why people feel the need to dichotomise them against each other. You can get too heavy either way. They work in unison with each other.

As Cornette said on his podcast this week though: “Whenever they do matches, I want more promos. Whenever they do promos, I want more matches. There’s probably a reason for that.”

It might be better to cut good promos and have good matches than just throw vague representations of what they are out there and argue about what broadly works better as a concept.


----------



## Wolf Mark

TD Stinger said:


> My guess is that after NXT goes to Tuesdays, AEW will do around 850k regularly as opposed to 750k. And NXT will go from 600k-700k to around 750k weekly. AEW will get closer to .35 in the demo weekly and NXT will get closer to .20 in the demo weekly.
> 
> Again, not a ratings expert but that's my guess.


I will take that bet


----------



## Wolf Mark

The Wood said:


> The in-ring work and the promos are all part of a package. I don’t know why people feel the need to dichotomise them against each other. You can get too heavy either way. They work in unison with each other.
> 
> As Cornette said on his podcast this week though: “Whenever they do matches, I want more promos. Whenever they do promos, I want more matches. There’s probably a reason for that.”
> 
> It might be better to cut good promos and have good matches than just throw vague representations of what they are out there and argue about what broadly works better as a concept.


You cannot have too much promo but you have to have some because it build the characters, it tells you who these guys are. You cannot have too long matches cause it's plodding and it's pointless. I think weekly wrestling on TV should be to build heat between opponants, you do a mix of promos, short matches, attacks and once in a while you have a long match and it feels special and worth watching.


----------



## .christopher.

As usual, great posts from @Wolf Mark 



Bubbly2 said:


> It's because the majority of fans who like promos, larger than life personas etc don't watch anymore. You're left with only hardcores, and workrate matters more to that group - hence it probably draws more with the existing audience that AEW has.


Exactly. It's also why their peak viewership barely gets above a million, which isn't impressive at all.


----------



## One Shed

.christopher. said:


> As usual, great posts from @Wolf Mark
> 
> 
> Exactly. It's also why their peak viewership barely gets above a million, which isn't impressive at all.


People do not seem to realize that those fans did not just suddenly switch off wrestling. It was a long process of being given more and more crap they did not want to watch over a long period of time. So suddenly throwing a few good promos on a show is not going to cause them to start tuning in again consistently, especially if in the next segment they get more of the stuff that caused them to stop watching to begin with.

The product needs to be consistently good over a prolonged period of time to draw people back in. Right now it is booked by someone who appears to have a moderate to extreme case of ADHD. That kind of schizophrenic booking would be like if in Breaking Bad they had a segment where Walt is mowing his grass and a bunch of clowns jump on his lawnmower and they joke about something that would appeal to middle schoolers.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Two Sheds said:


> People do not seem to realize that those fans did not just suddenly switch off wrestling. It was a long process of being given more and more crap they did not want to watch over a long period of time. So suddenly throwing a few good promos on a show is not going to cause them to start tuning in again consistently, especially if in the next segment they get more of the stuff that caused them to stop watching to begin with.
> 
> The product needs to be consistently good over a prolonged period of time to draw people back in. Right now it is booked by someone who appears to have a moderate to extreme case of ADHD. That kind of schizophrenic booking would be like if in Breaking Bad they had a segment where Walt is mowing his grass and a bunch of clowns jump on his lawnmower and they joke about something that would appeal to middle schoolers.


Yea it takes a lot of crap over crap over crap for people to stop watching, that is why the rating drop on a long-running show like Raw has been gradual. I mean it means people are faithfull as Hell cause they are willing to suffer a lot over many years. But make no mistake a bad product will hurt you. Cause there is a limit to what people can take. And it's the same thing with great shows. When WCW did the nWo in 1996 and turned their stuff around, they saw a bump in ratings but you see their ratings in 1998 and it has tripled because it grew over time with the word of mouth. The nWo had become a phenom, part of the culture by 98. The year of 1998 for WCW was more successful than 1997 even though 97 had been much better and by 98 they were on a slide creatively. But the excitement could not die down. Although by the end of 98 with more than a few bad booking decisions, it caught up to them.


----------



## thorn123

Disagree with the recent theme of this thread ... its the natural evolution of things. Wrestling is on a down swing. It may or may not ever recover.

Solid Programming isnt going to bring back the golden age, only a new mega star like Hogan or Austin will. AEW is proof of that. They have produced very good programming and the larger audience isn’t interested.

AEW is as good as anything, sans prime TNA, in the last twenty years.


----------



## Not Lying

DaveRA said:


> Disagree with the recent theme of this thread ... its the natural evolution of things. Wrestling is on a down swing. It may or may not ever recover.
> 
> Solid Programming isnt going to bring back the golden age, only a new mega star like Hogan or Austin will. AEW is proof of that. They have produced very good programming and the larger audience isn’t interested.
> 
> AEW is as good as anything, sans prime TNA, in the last twenty years.


A lot of people think it's a "gave up" attitude, but it's the reality. Unless there's a megastar that will suddenly appear and bring a lot of people in (which is damn near impossible these days considering how hard it is to please the average fan).

SD's christmas special reached 4m viewers at one point, and got back 2m immediately throughout the night and the following weeks.

Look at the ratings for Young Rock from 5.3m to 2.8m, they've declined every week and lost almost half their viewership in 5 weeks and they're going to lose more. Big TV debuts, decline in ratings, people watch using different means, it's just the nature of things people find it hard to accept. 

I don't think even the best of the best written wrestling TV show, will be able to crack back to 3m anytime soon, which is a number that was shat on a few years ago.

I do think however that once crowds are back we will get a bump for most shows, but probably not enough. I do see AEW consistently getting 1m+ eventually with a crowd + no competition though.


----------



## La Parka

[/QUOTE]


DaveRA said:


> Disagree with the recent theme of this thread ... its the natural evolution of things. Wrestling is on a down swing. It may or may not ever recover.
> 
> Solid Programming isnt going to bring back the golden age, only a new mega star like Hogan or Austin will. AEW is proof of that. They have produced very good programming and the larger audience isn’t interested.
> 
> AEW is as good as anything, sans prime TNA, in the last twenty years.


What exactly is "very good" about AEW? 


Last weeks card featured a handful of guys that don't belong on television.
The world champion is currently involved in an angle referencing a group that no one in north America ever cared about and is involved in a feud with a company that no one has cared about in almost a decade.
This week there's a match that will literally have video games around the ring.
Shaq on TV leaving the ambulance was suppose to be some kind of "how did he get out" angle but the fans in the stadium clearly seen him get out and walk away. This is 2021, literally everyone has a phone and did they honestly think not one of them would see a 7 foot tall giant walk away from the ambulance and film it?

I could go on and on about the terrible things in AEW but I can't honestly believe anyone thinks this product is so good that it's proof that wrestling will never get over in the main stream.


----------



## The Wood

DaveRA said:


> Disagree with the recent theme of this thread ... its the natural evolution of things. Wrestling is on a down swing. It may or may not ever recover.
> 
> Solid Programming isnt going to bring back the golden age, only a new mega star like Hogan or Austin will. AEW is proof of that. They have produced very good programming and the larger audience isn’t interested.
> 
> AEW is as good as anything, sans prime TNA, in the last twenty years.


It’s your opinion that AEW is very good. You’re entitled to it, but there are plenty of reasons people would switch off. There are plot holes a mile wide. That’s not me being cynical — they literally introduce plot points that contradict previous plot points. QT Marshall was banging The Bunny, now he’s talking about his wife. That doesn’t make sense, and that’s something that either bothers you or it doesn’t. And it may not bother you, but a lot of people like their television to make sense.

How do you think a mega-star comes along? Do you think they grow in a dirt patch somewhere and automatically bring in millions of fans on their own? Or are they a combination of talent, charisma, looks, luck and EFFECTIVE booking and promoting?


----------



## thorn123

La
What exactly is "very good" about AEW?


Last weeks card featured a handful of guys that don't belong on television.
The world champion is currently involved in an angle referencing a group that no one in north America ever cared about and is involved in a feud with a company that no one has cared about in almost a decade.
This week there's a match that will literally have video games around the ring.
Shaq on TV leaving the ambulance was suppose to be some kind of "how did he get out" angle but the fans in the stadium clearly seen him get out and walk away. This is 2021, literally everyone has a phone and did they honestly think not one of them would see a 7 foot tall giant walk away from the ambulance and film it?

I could go on and on about the terrible things in AEW but I can't honestly believe anyone thinks this product is so good that it's proof that wrestling will never get over in the main stream.
[/QUOT

What exactly is "very good" about AEW?


Last weeks card featured a handful of guys that don't belong on television.
The world champion is currently involved in an angle referencing a group that no one in north America ever cared about and is involved in a feud with a company that no one has cared about in almost a decade.
This week there's a match that will literally have video games around the ring.
Shaq on TV leaving the ambulance was suppose to be some kind of "how did he get out" angle but the fans in the stadium clearly seen him get out and walk away. This is 2021, literally everyone has a phone and did they honestly think not one of them would see a 7 foot tall giant walk away from the ambulance and film it?

I could go on and on about the terrible things in AEW but I can't honestly believe anyone thinks this product is so good that it's proof that wrestling will never get over in the main stream.
[/QUOTE]
last weeks show was a 6.5/10. A bit down. But I loved seeing some new faces. Omega is the best in the world, happy to see him in any angle. Shaq was gold. One of the better celebrity appearances in wrestling. Wrestling is smoke and mirrors. People need to suspend their belief.
if people sit back and stop analysing, they may find they enjoy it. It’s my weekly tv viewing highlight.


----------



## thorn123

The Wood said:


> It’s your opinion that AEW is very good. You’re entitled to it, but there are plenty of reasons people would switch off. There are plot holes a mile wide. That’s not me being cynical — they literally introduce plot points that contradict previous plot points. QT Marshall was banging The Bunny, now he’s talking about his wife. That doesn’t make sense, and that’s something that either bothers you or it doesn’t. And it may not bother you, but a lot of people like their television to make sense.
> 
> How do you think a mega-star comes along? Do you think they grow in a dirt patch somewhere and automatically bring in millions of fans on their own? Or are they a combination of talent, charisma, looks, luck and EFFECTIVE booking and promoting?


There has been plot holes in wrestling since day dot. 
a mega star is luck ... if no hogan we don’t get mainstream wrestling. if no Austin wwe goes out of business. The only thing bookers did were ride the wave.


----------



## The Wood

DaveRA said:


> La
> 
> 
> What exactly is "very good" about AEW?
> 
> 
> Last weeks card featured a handful of guys that don't belong on television.
> The world champion is currently involved in an angle referencing a group that no one in north America ever cared about and is involved in a feud with a company that no one has cared about in almost a decade.
> This week there's a match that will literally have video games around the ring.
> Shaq on TV leaving the ambulance was suppose to be some kind of "how did he get out" angle but the fans in the stadium clearly seen him get out and walk away. This is 2021, literally everyone has a phone and did they honestly think not one of them would see a 7 foot tall giant walk away from the ambulance and film it?
> 
> I could go on and on about the terrible things in AEW but I can't honestly believe anyone thinks this product is so good that it's proof that wrestling will never get over in the main stream.
> [/QUOT
> 
> 
> 
> What exactly is "very good" about AEW?
> 
> 
> Last weeks card featured a handful of guys that don't belong on television.
> The world champion is currently involved in an angle referencing a group that no one in north America ever cared about and is involved in a feud with a company that no one has cared about in almost a decade.
> This week there's a match that will literally have video games around the ring.
> Shaq on TV leaving the ambulance was suppose to be some kind of "how did he get out" angle but the fans in the stadium clearly seen him get out and walk away. This is 2021, literally everyone has a phone and did they honestly think not one of them would see a 7 foot tall giant walk away from the ambulance and film it?
> 
> I could go on and on about the terrible things in AEW but I can't honestly believe anyone thinks this product is so good that it's proof that wrestling will never get over in the main stream.


last weeks show was a 6.5/10. A bit down. But I loved seeing some new faces. Omega is the best in the world, happy to see him in any angle. Shaq was gold. One of the better celebrity appearances in wrestling. Wrestling is smoke and mirrors. People need to suspend their belief.
if people sit back and stop analysing, they may find they enjoy it. It’s my weekly tv viewing highlight.
[/QUOTE]

You cannot suspend your disbelief with AEW. They won’t let you. They have literally said that trying to be sincere about wrestling is insulting the audience. 



DaveRA said:


> There has been plot holes in wrestling since day dot.
> a mega star is luck ... if no hogan we don’t get mainstream wrestling. if no Austin wwe goes out of business. The only thing bookers did were ride the wave.


Those talents need to get booked before they get over. They don’t do everything themselves.


----------



## Wolf Mark

DaveRA said:


> Disagree with the recent theme of this thread ... its the natural evolution of things. Wrestling is on a down swing. It may or may not ever recover.
> 
> Solid Programming isnt going to bring back the golden age, only a new mega star like Hogan or Austin will. AEW is proof of that. They have produced very good programming and the larger audience isn’t interested.
> 
> AEW is as good as anything, sans prime TNA, in the last twenty years.


That's a matter of opinion if they produced "good" material. The only thing I'll give them is that their material pre-Covid was much better. The angle where Cody was whiped by MJF or the Jake promo, we have never seen any angles of this level after the whole pandemic hit. Maybe they are keeping their best stuff when everybody is back, who knows.


----------



## 3venflow

It's now official: The Wednesday Night Wars are over (well, almost).

-

WEW’s NXT show on the USA Network is moving to Tuesday nights beginning April 13th. The news was made official Tuesday morning and effectively ends the “Wednesday Night War” against AEW Dynamite.

WWE executive Triple H commented, “The move to Tuesdays provides a new opportunity for us to grow the NXT brand and enables our partner, USA Network, to continue to build its strong portfolio of sports and entertainment programming.”

In addition to NXT moving to Tuesday’s, WWE announced a multi-year extension of their partnership with USA. The show will remain on the air through at least 2023.

“We are incredibly proud of our three-decade partnership with WWE and in extending USA’s NXT deal, we are further establishing our portfolio as an unrivaled home for quality WWE content,” said Frances Berwick, Chairman, Entertainment Networks, NBCUniversal. “By transitioning NXT to a Tuesday timeslot where WWE has performed well in the past, we are giving our passionate fanbase more of what they love with back-to-back nights of exhilarating, live programming.”

All new episodes of NXT will be available on-demand in the United States exclusively on Peacock, the day after its airing on USA Network.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

About time NXT put up the white flag...

(only joshing!) 

Good news for both - I wouldn't even be surprised if NXT see greater gains in terms of viewership but I'm hoping they both get a nice bump.


----------



## zkorejo

My take is NXT will gain alot more than AEW. I can see alot of AEW viewers checking out nxt on Tuesdays. I can see not many of NXT's viewers coming to AEW. NXT will probably get alot of that 18-49 demo for Tuesdays. AEW will end up with higher overall viewership with some of that 50+ demo. 

Its a very good move for NXT.


----------



## rbl85

zkorejo said:


> My take is NXT will gain alot more than AEW. I can see alot of AEW viewers checking out nxt on Tuesdays. I can see not many of NXT's viewers coming to AEW. NXT will probably get alot of that 18-49 demo for Tuesdays. AEW will end up with higher overall viewership with some of that 50+ demo.
> 
> Its a very good move for NXT.


We already have exemple of what both show will do on a different night.


----------



## zkorejo

rbl85 said:


> We already have exemple of what both show will do on a different night.


I see. I will read last few pages. I often post first then read later.


----------



## rbl85

zkorejo said:


> I see. I will read last few pages. I often post first then read later.


It was a few month ago so it might be faster if you just do a internet research.


----------



## 3venflow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1376903499405946886


----------



## The Wood

NXT possibly stands to gain more than NXT.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

War is over lads - lets close this thread down!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1376885603791425537


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

zkorejo said:


> My take is NXT will gain alot more than AEW. I can see alot of AEW viewers checking out nxt on Tuesdays. I can see not many of NXT's viewers coming to AEW. NXT will probably get alot of that 18-49 demo for Tuesdays. AEW will end up with higher overall viewership with some of that 50+ demo.
> 
> Its a very good move for NXT.


Well, if the 7 days DVR is truly correct at 1.3m for AEW

some of those must be NXT viewers checking it out later in the week

there is something to gain - it won’t be astronomical

but their new average might be 900k instead of 750k


----------



## DaSlacker

zkorejo said:


> My take is NXT will gain alot more than AEW. I can see alot of AEW viewers checking out nxt on Tuesdays. I can see not many of NXT's viewers coming to AEW. NXT will probably get alot of that 18-49 demo for Tuesdays. AEW will end up with higher overall viewership with some of that 50+ demo.
> 
> Its a very good move for NXT.


NXT is pretty cookie cutter though on the men's side. 5'10 athletic ROH types in black pants (Balor, Cole, O Reilly, Strong, Gargano, Dunne, Ciampa, Lorcan, Burch, Theory). Kross is cool but will be called up by the end of the year. Ditto Grimes and Scott. Dream is basically finished. Others who are bigger and work the slower mat based style are bizarrely pushed aside (LA Knight). 

For all its faults, AEW has more wider reaching variety. Whether that's veterans like Sting and Christian, 'gimmicks' like Luchasaurus and Pentagon, or the freaks like Stunt and Cassidy.


----------



## Impermanence

DaSlacker said:


> For all its faults, AEW has more wider reaching variety. Whether that's veterans like Sting and Christian, 'gimmicks' like Luchasaurus and Pentagon, or the freaks like Stunt and Cassidy.


Good thing there's no Midget-O-phobia or White-Male-O-Phobia or you'd get a weeks ban for referring to Marko Stunt and Orange Cassidy as "freaks". I got that ban for casually using the word " Freak" While referring to two other members of the roster as " Freaks" Lol. (can't mention who) . Funny how those two phobias are a relevant and prevalent term.


----------



## DaSlacker

Impermanence said:


> Good thing there's no Midget-O-phobia or White-Male-O-Phobia or you'd get a weeks ban for referring to Marko Stunt and Orange Cassidy as "freaks". I got that ban for casually using the word " Freak" While referring to two other members of the roster as " Freaks" Lol. (can't mention who) . Funny how those two phobias are a relevant and prevalent term.


Haha that's crazy. Think I know who you probably referred to. In fairness I meant freaks in terms of they both act like underemployed guys on LSD who won a spot in a wrestling company. As opposed to dedicated athletes. Cassidy is decent in the ring and pretty good; Stunt isn't much smaller than pre buffed Rey. Still, they're both weird as hell. And casuals like weird lol.


----------



## Impermanence

DaSlacker said:


> And casuals like weird lol.


Ah I didn't know that casuals like weird. Personally I don't like AEWs weird stuff. I liked Goldust absolutely and thought he could've made a solid World champion in 1996 or 1997. 

It's like - weird for the sake or weird doesn't work and there must be some potential and Star-like quality and I guess that's what separates Mankind, Taker and Goldust from others. 

I also thought Velveteen Dream was likeable and marketable and could've been huge. I have seen little of him but I could tell he's a STAR.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Will this week episode be the last one In the "war"? Next week the Takeover is on WWE network, right?


----------



## The Wood

There is still much to discuss.


----------



## Geert Wilders

3venflow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1376903499405946886


It is still too early to predict.

If AEW get too cocky, they will end up like TNA.


----------



## The Wood

If they get too keen now and go even crazier, they might actually burn out their audience even quicker.


----------



## rbl85

I'm happy that NXT is moving not because of AEW "winning" a "war" but because now i can watch both show live.


----------



## TD Stinger

LifeInCattleClass said:


> War is over lads - lets close this thread down!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1376885603791425537


Ha, jokes on you.

Now we will debate the ratings between Miz & Mrs. vs. Rhodes to the Top.


----------



## DestinationUnknown

This makes me happy. More live wrestling to watch for meeeee.

I do hope AEW takes the ball and runs with it now that they don't have NXT holding them down. AEW, while great, still has a lot of areas to improve in. Good news for wrestling fans I'd say. Happy days

D.U


----------



## thorn123

Rating will probably remain the same ... as long as it doesn’t drop

i do think that most of the 700k odd fans that watch dynamite (in its entirety and without fast forwarding) have a good time and enjoy it, like I do.

whereas I reckon most of Raw’s 1.5 M viewers don’t actually enjoy it and just watch out of brand recognition, loyalty and habit. Kind of like how we still watch our favourite sports team, even when they are on a 15 year losing streak.


----------



## RainmakerV2

DestinationUnknown said:


> This makes me happy. More live wrestling to watch for meeeee.
> 
> I do hope AEW takes the ball and runs with it now that they don't have NXT holding them down. AEW, while great, still has a lot of areas to improve in. Good news for wrestling fans I'd say. Happy days
> 
> D.U



How was WWES developmental 3rd brand holding them down exactly?


----------



## ProjectGargano

RainmakerV2 said:


> How was WWES developmental 3rd brand holding them down exactly?


Nxt is not developmental anymore. Who needs development? Gargano, Company, Cole, Balor, Lumis, Kushida, Thatcher, Kross? All of them with more than 35 years old.
Or Io Shirai? One of the best wrestler I'm the world.


----------



## rbl85

So next week NXT is takeover ?

NXT probably going to win the ratings of their last wednesday show.


----------



## DestinationUnknown

RainmakerV2 said:


> How was WWES developmental 3rd brand holding them down exactly?


ProjectGargano tagged himself in, thanks for that friend.

NXT was put on the exact same night as AEW Dynamite to take away viewers. AEW will get over a million when NXT moves and if the news and Real Housewives don't impede on their viewers


----------



## rbl85

Apparently the last episode of Real Housewives and double agent is in 2 weeks


----------



## DaSlacker

ProjectGargano said:


> Nxt is not developmental anymore. Who needs development? Gargano, Company, Cole, Balor, Lumis, Kushida, Thatcher, Kross? All of them with more than 35 years old.
> Or Io Shirai? One of the best wrestler I'm the world.


Yep. NXT ceased being a development brand quite a while ago. It's basically an alternative universe WWE and spinoff at this stage. The actual development names (Holland, Rinku, Saurav, Kato etc) are nowhere to be seen. The names that have been debuting (Theory, Escobar, Lumis, Kross, Knight, Rascalz, Thatcher) are well rounded, seasoned and ready for Raw or SD.


----------



## 3venflow

I predicted 811k I think in the predictions thread, a bit higher than the three-week average. That was based on my expectation that Christian would open the show and the Arcade Anarchy would close it and I can see both doing good QHs. Not sure about the things in between though. For example, did people stick around long enough for the Cody/QT aftermath or were they driven off during the exhibition?


----------



## RainmakerV2

3venflow said:


> View attachment 99457
> 
> 
> I predicted 811k I think in the predictions thread, a bit higher than the three-week average. That was based on my expectation that Christian would open the show and the Arcade Anarchy would close it and I can see both doing good QHs. Not sure about the things in between though. For example, did people stick around long enough for the Cody/QT aftermath or were they driven off during the exhibition?



Guy puts over brand hes on. Film at 11


----------



## Aedubya

Can someone give me a link to the Dynamite thread show please?

I must "ignore" whoever started it and it won't show up for me, thanks


----------



## NathanMayberry

WOW... Impact drew 38,000 viewers this week.. Kenny Omega appearing was advertised. That is one of their lowest ratings ever.









Impact Wrestling on AXS TV 3/30 viewership update


Update: Pwinsider.com reports the 38,000 viewers was an error as the show did 148,000 viewers and a 0.4 rating in the key demo. Original: Tuesday’s Impact Wrestling episode on AXS TV saw its viewership drop in a big way. The show did 38,000 viewers, way down from last week’s 116,000 viewers. It...




wrestlingnews.co





Kenny Omega is not a draw at all.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

NathanMayberry said:


> WOW... Impact drew 38,000 viewers this week.. Kenny Omega appearing was advertised. That is one of their lowest ratings ever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Impact Wrestling on AXS TV 3/30 viewership update
> 
> 
> Update: Pwinsider.com reports the 38,000 viewers was an error as the show did 148,000 viewers and a 0.4 rating in the key demo. Original: Tuesday’s Impact Wrestling episode on AXS TV saw its viewership drop in a big way. The show did 38,000 viewers, way down from last week’s 116,000 viewers. It...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wrestlingnews.co
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kenny Omega is not a draw at all.


Some folks reporting it was an error and actually 148k? (according to a thread on Impact page)


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Aedubya said:


> Can someone give me a link to the Dynamite thread show please?
> 
> I must "ignore" whoever started it and it won't show up for me, thanks


at the bottom of the forum us a ‘show ignored threads’ button - click and you can see it

Fire and i discussed, i’ll be doing the weeklies from next week, so you should be good


----------



## 3venflow

Yes, it was an error much to the chagrin of people quick to bash Kenny.

Actual rating for IMPACT was 148,512 viewers and 0.04 in the 18-49 demo. That was up from 116,000 the week before.


----------



## TD Stinger

I can’t believe some people thought the 38k thing for Impact was true, lol.

Although this does prove Braden Walker is a bigger draw than Kenny.


----------



## Whoanma

TD Stinger said:


> I can’t believe some people thought the 38k thing for Impact was true, lol.
> 
> Although* this does prove Braden Walker is a bigger draw than Kenny.*


----------



## 3venflow

AEW: 700,000 (0.26 in the 18-49)

NXT: 654,000 (0.21 in the 18-49)

AEW ranked #7 and NXT ranked #12 (high for them I believe).

Overall, this was well below the usual 1.5m-ish that the two shows share.


----------



## TD Stinger

Wow, NXT got a .21. They haven’t been that high in awhile. Surprised to see AEW drop to .26.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Big Yikes. Terrible rating.

Kenny Omega continues to not be a draw,


----------



## JimJackJones

This company knows fuck all about how to get ratings. They need someone like Bischoff in charge.

Bischoff would never book a no name like Kenta in the main event of his TV show and introduce him like he's some big fucking deal when he's not. Nobody cares about him outside of Japan. It's been proven in TNA, WWE and now AEW.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Let’s be honest. I’m a fan of AEW but they dropped the ball with revolution and their shows since have been main evented by boring wrestlers.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Low for AEW


----------



## rbl85

Next week NXT is going to obliterate AEW, probably close to 900K for NXT and below 600K for AEW.

It's next week the first takeover night right ?


----------



## RainmakerV2

But but but attitude era factions!!!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

JimJackJones said:


> This company knows fuck all about how to get ratings. They need someone like Bischoff in charge.
> 
> Bischoff would never book a no name like Kenta in the main event of his TV show and introduce him like he's some big fucking deal when he's not. Nobody cares about him outside of Japan. It's been proven in TNA, WWE and now AEW.


Rejoin much?


----------



## One Shed

I definitely overestimated the rubbernecking appeal this week.


----------



## JimJackJones

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Rejoin much?


Why for telling the truth?

AEW need people like me who give valid and deserved criticism so they can learn from their mistakes and change. They have already changed a bunch of things this year that their fanbase complained about and it's helped them improve slightly.

This company needs more fans like me who speak up. They don't need echo chambers and cheer leaders. The IWC as a whole don't know what they want and never have. They'll beg for someone like Kenta to come on TV to fit in with the sheep and won't even tune in to watch him.

I really hope this place isn't an echo chamber cult like the AEW reddit. It's not a good sign that I already got called out as a rejoin for not putting a fake smile and praising the company.



RainmakerV2 said:


> But but but attitude era factions!!!


Like I said in my post above. The IWC don't know what they want and never have, let alone how to tie their own shoes in the morning. Vince was a genius because he knew in his heart what he felt was right and he executed without being swayed by the IWC's opinion. It wasn't until he started listening to the IWC that the WWE lost it's identity and started to be a shell of it's former self.


----------



## rbl85

JimJackJones said:


> Why for telling the truth?
> 
> *AEW need people like me who give valid and deserved criticism so they can learn from their mistakes and change.* They have already changed a bunch of things this year that their fanbase complained about and it's helped them improve slightly.
> 
> This company needs more fans like me who speak up. They don't need echo chambers and cheer leaders. The IWC as a whole don't know what they want and never have. They'll beg for someone like Kenta to come on TV to fit in with the sheep and won't even tune in to watch him.
> 
> I really hope this place isn't an echo chamber cult like the AEW reddit. It's not a good sign that I already got called out as a rejoin for not putting a fake smile and praising the company.


Lol your ankles are not hurting too much ?


----------



## Dr. Middy

I'm most upset they got beat by Guy's Grocery Games.


----------



## 3venflow

Some takeaways from this week's ratings:


AEW's lowest viewership since January 6th (662k). However, they had the valid excuse of the capitol riots that day, no such reason for a sharp drop this week.
AEW lost 57,000 viewers from last week.
NXT also dropped in viewership, losing 24,000 from last week.
However, NXT saw a boost in the all-important 18-49 demo, posting their best since January 27th which was also 0.21.
On the other hand, AEW's key demo drop to 0.26 was their worst since the aforementioned January 6th event (0.25 / impacted by capitol riots). This was more in line with last April~June than since (last week's did 0.30).

Personally, I thought last night's show was great but you can't ignore the ratings and both shows lost viewers. The quarter hours will give further insight. NXT's move to Tuesday should help, but AEW needs to address its own issues as the last four weeks have seen a mostly downward trend after a couple of very good ratings in late February and early March.


----------



## izhack111

If Aew dont care about the raitings so why I need to care about it?


----------



## ProjectGargano

Next Week's NXT is on USA or on WWE Network?


----------



## RainmakerV2

You mean no one cares about QT Marshall and his students?














Naw


----------



## Whoanma

The Strange Case of QT Marshall’s Unexpected Push. Faction Included (yup, another one).


----------



## TD Stinger

ProjectGargano said:


> Next Week's NXT is on USA or on WWE Network?


For people in the US, Night 1 of Takeover is on Wednesday next week on both USA and Peacock. And for international viewers I assume its on the Network too.

For Night 2 on Thursday it will be exclusive to Peacock and the Network.


----------



## Whoanma

TD Stinger said:


> For people in the US, Night 1 of Takeover is on Wednesday next week on both USA and Peacock. And for international viewers I assume its on the Network too.
> 
> For Night 2 on Thursday it will be exclusive to Peacock and the Network.


Live on the same 2 days or delayed?


----------



## Alright_Mate

Maybe viewers are starting to get bored of shitty factions 🤔

I thought last night’s episode had some good positives to it; however right now, nothing feels like it’s must watch, so I’m not surprised they keep posting numbers in the 700k region.


----------



## TD Stinger

Whoanma said:


> Live on the same 2 days or delayed?


I believe live.


----------



## JimJackJones

The problem I see is the bloated roster. You know it's bad when you have so many people on the roster that you have to have more than three large factions in order to find something for everyone to do. The problem is that Khan is being manipulated into thinking that all of these wrestlers are his friends. He's not gonna do what needs to be done and get rid of the fat.

I really feel like the roster needs to be cut in half almost. Getting rid of the whole dark order would be a good start.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Sting debut, "huge" signing for Revolution, Exploding Barbwire deathmatch, Bloody hardcore womens' match, brawls galore, new factions forming on a constant basis, forbidden doors being opened, Kenny as a "belt collector", trademarked music, a roster the size of a small country. 

That's an awful lot of resources to put into a show that pulls in 700K


----------



## Joe Gill

im not surprised with these declines at all.... every week is becoming a giant clusterfuck with too many storylines. Why should a fan care about 20 different storylines when half of them are half assed and confusing to follow? was the qt marshall storyline necessary? how many viewers watching even had a clue what was going on? why not use that time for ricky starks or hangman page? Britt Baker has an epic match with lots of buzz and suddenly she and thunder are hardly used. Instead heres nyla rose and vicky guerrero. 

they need to simplify the show and focus on the major storylines.


----------



## Chan Hung

Whoanma said:


> The Strange Case of QT Marshall’s Unexpected Push. Faction Included (yup, another one).


As bad as it is to have QT with his own faction, its the only time i've cared about him since AEW began lmfao


----------



## JimJackJones

El Hammerstone said:


> Sting debut, "huge" signing for Revolution, Exploding Barbwire deathmatch, Bloody hardcore womens' match, brawls galore, new factions forming on a constant basis, forbidden doors being opened, Kenny as a "belt collector", trademarked music, a roster the size of a small country.
> 
> That's an awful lot of resources to put into a show that pulls in 700K


Almost as much resources as they've been putting into Cody Rhodes. They need to tone and slow things down because after this year nothing they do in the future will feel worth a damn. I'm already desensitized to anything chaotic because there's never a moment where thing's aren't!


----------



## Prosper

Oh wow. Bad cable rating this week. I very much enjoyed the show last night and last week's as well, its not like they're terrible shows outside of the Miro/Kip stuff (I mean the IC/Pinnacle fight, Christian/Kaz, and the 6 man tag were great), but they have to make some kind of change to get the cable audience back on the upswing. Next week will be bad too because of the whole Takeover craze, so I'm interested to see what they do after that going into DONIII. I'm not gonna pretend I know what the magic fix is for the cable audience, because bad shows have drawn more and have picked up viewers as the show went on in the past, but there needs to be some tweaking for sure.


----------



## Chan Hung

Tony Khan is ultimately where the buck stops. He's the big boy with the pockets of dad's money, who okay's stuff on TV. Problem he has had is that he likely okays everything. He hardly is a buffer to cringe ideas or cringe talent like Dark Order, rather instead relies on trying to please and include everyone on his roster on TV so he shoves them i guess in a faction. Sometimes less is more. AEW would benefit from less i think in many cases.


----------



## Outlaw91

JimJackJones said:


> AEW need people like me who give valid and deserved criticism so they can learn from their mistakes and change. They have already changed a bunch of things this year that their fanbase complained about and it's helped them improve slightly.
> 
> This company needs more fans like me who speak up. They don't need echo chambers and cheer leaders. The IWC as a whole don't know what they want and never have.


You need to get out of your house more often. Fresh air usually helps.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Oh yeah, Orange Cassidy in a big hyped gimmick match main evented. What a draw!


----------



## Prosper

Chan Hung said:


> Tony Khan is ultimately where the buck stops. He's the big boy with the pockets of dad's money, who okay's stuff on TV. Problem he has had is that he likely okays everything. He hardly is a buffer to cringe ideas or cringe talent, rather instead relies on trying to please and include everyone on his roster on TV so he shoves them i guess in a faction. Sometimes less is more. AEW would benefit from less i think in many cases.


He's learning on the fly. Dropping ratings will give him a new mindset in moving forward. I think the shows have been great, especially in 2021, but I won't disagree that the main show needs to be more focused on just the top tier talent. Hopefully Elevation can help in separating some of the over-bloated roster. But who knows, who's to say that that will even increase ratings in the end? You never know with these things. The fact that the OC/Jericho feud was drawing more than Kenny Omega is baffling to me. The fact that CM Punk didn't draw a huge audience is also baffling. So I mean, whatever.


----------



## Chan Hung

Are the hour by hour numbers out? Im curious who is drawing and who is not. If you go by the standard old rule...whoever is not, should be on TV less i would suppose and whoever is, should be marketed more on TV.


----------



## Dr. Middy

While I enjoy the show, there is too much happening with too many guys a decent amount of the time. I can see people getting confused by having so many guys out there for each segment for example, and I would bet that is the case for QT's segment with the Nightmare Family. Not only did you have too many guys out there, the majority of people watching probably had no idea who some of them were, which makes an angle like that fall flat for a lot of viewers.

I'm fine with having a large roster, but you need to dial back how many people you have on the show. You could also rotate a lot of these guys, and maybe stick to having some key main eventers and key midcard guys on every show, that way your audience can still always see popular, familiar faces, but also give the majority of the roster time on the show if that's the route they are choosing. Right now they are trying to cram just too many guys into the show.

Also not surprised NXT is doing better as they have done a great job building for the 2 Takeover shows next week. They are probably going to do great with Night 1, as they should if they keep the momentum into the show itself.


----------



## .christopher.

As I said when people were fawning over the ppv buys, the more people who bought that and saw that trainwreck, the bigger problem it would become in the long term.

That ppv seems to have run a few off.


----------



## 3venflow

I'd agree about slowing it down and employing a 'less is more' strategy. I think the wrestling to storyline ratio on Dynamite is pretty spot on. You get plenty of quality in-ring action, but there is also storyline progression.

But they try and involve so many guys in the two hours when they could limit it and flesh out what those remaining do. There were over 40 wrestlers and managers on-screen yesterday excluding those behind the barricades.

Bononi had to have JD Drake and Ryan Nemeth at ringside with him and they all got involved against Moxley. If you don't watch Dark, you're somewhat puzzled by this. Even when Excalibur explains who they are, it's still a bunch of bottom of the barrel guys suddenly doing something on Dynamite, against a main eventer no less.

The women's tag had so many wrestlers around ringside that it resembled a Lumberjack Match. As did the QT/Cody match, although that did have storyline implications so I'll give that one a pass.

I don't blame Tony Khan for expanding the roster. It's a show of long-term planning for content expansion, which is now underway with Elevation here and TNT Show #2 en route. I also think he'll start cutting some after the pandemic. But not everyone needs to be on Dynamite.

They will have an in-house data analyst and he will have a general idea or who and what has done the best ratings over the past year and a half. It's clear for example that Darby Allin consistently brings in viewers. It's also said that The Elite do some of AEW's best minute-for-minute numbers.


----------



## Alright_Mate

People can blame whoever and whatever, the fact of the matter is, is that they need to go back to basics.

The roster is bloated, but it feels more bloated because Tony Khan has an obsession, where it feels like it’s in his need, to showcase every talent on Dynamite regularly.

That should not be the case, it’s killing the enjoyment and consistency out of the episodes. You have an upper card, midcard and lower card for a reason, yet too many of the AEW roster feel like they are on a level playing field.

I’ve said this many times, but AEW desperately need to prioritise their roster better, they give air time to so many guys, that viewers just don’t give a shit about.

That needs to stop or they won’t improve.


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> Oh yeah, Orange Cassidy in a big hyped gimmick match main evented. What a draw!


Sure, let's ignore those multiple instances where Orange Cassidy has indeed drawn in this blind attack regarding this dip


----------



## Joe Gill

Prosper said:


> He's learning on the fly. Dropping ratings will give him a new mindset in moving forward. I think the shows have been great, especially in 2021, but I won't disagree that the main show needs to be more focused on just the top tier talent. Hopefully Elevation can help in separating some of the over-bloated roster. But who knows, who's to say that that will even increase ratings in the end? You never know with these things. The fact that the OC/Jericho feud was drawing more than Kenny Omega is baffling to me. The fact that CM Punk didn't draw a huge audience is also baffling. So I mean, whatever.


TK is going in the opposite diection though. He cant help himself and has to sign any talent available to a contract. The roster gets more and more bloated leading to more factions/ tag matches/brawls so everyone gets a chance to be on the show. How many fans 5 months ago wanted more pointless brawls and tag team matches? How many fans wanted 10+ storylines on every episode? TK is literally doing the opposite of what fans wanted. 
Who are the talents that most fans wanted to see get a major push? Jungle boy, hangman page, ricky starks, darby, wardlow, mjf, miro, pac? of those only mjf and darby got a major push... and they almost ruined mjf with the inner circle crap that no one is going to remember. So basically Darby is the only talent they have properly built up with proper booking. On the womens side Britt Baker is the only one that has bee elevated...but that was in spite of the horrible booking of the womans division. 
If you are one of the fans that loves watching Dark and the internet shows and follows indy wrestling then maybe you are loving dynamite....but the rest of us are losing interest.


----------



## yeahright2

Results are in for this weeks ratings game. Thanks for playing 
AEW Ratings prediction game

I have to say I´m really surprised by that number.. I figured the usual 750K plus a little extra for Christian. I was way off


----------



## Prosper

Joe Gill said:


> TK is going in the opposite diection though. He cant help himself and has to sign any talent available to a contract. The roster gets more and more bloated leading to more factions/ tag matches/brawls so everyone gets a chance to be on the show. How many fans 5 months ago wanted more pointless brawls and tag team matches? How many fans wanted 10+ storylines on every episode? TK is literally doing the opposite of what fans wanted.
> Who are the talents that most fans wanted to see get a major push? Jungle boy, hangman page, ricky starks, darby, wardlow, mjf, miro, pac? of those only mjf and darby got a major push... and they almost ruined mjf with the inner circle crap that no one is going to remember. So basically Darby is the only talent they have properly built up with proper booking. On the womens side Britt Baker is the only one that has bee elevated...but that was in spite of the horrible booking of the womans division.
> If you are one of the fans that loves watching Dark and the internet shows and follows indy wrestling then maybe you are loving dynamite....but the rest of us are losing interest.


Tony Khan is all about getting everyone exposure, but he will quickly realize if he hasn't already after this weeks ratings that he has to hone down on some of these things. I was puzzled that he booked Darby Allin vs JD Drake next week for example. I understand that JD Drake is pretty good and that Darby is running an open challenge, but why not do an open challenge against a guy like Ethan Page or Ray Fenix who is already established with the audience? Why not continue with the Cody vs Penta feud instead of having him feud with the Nightmare Family? It was going so well. If you don't watch DARK you have no reason to be invested in JD Drake. He employs a lot of guys and wants to put them all on TV to give everyone a chance at getting over, but at the same time, there's a point where you have to dial it back some. The top 75% of his roster is awesome and I love all the brawls and chaos, but let all of that involve just the top 75%. 

He's kind of having too much fun when it comes to shuffling talent around and giving people exposure. The compassion and the charity has to be controlled. And he's an excited novice so that's to be expected. We can say from the outside looking in that we would do this and that as armchair bookers, but when you're in there in real life its a completely different thing being surrounded by an entire roster who are all having fun and by hungry talent who ask Tony for a shot in the spotlight. But he'll learn. 

I like what Tony Khan is doing and I enjoy 95% of what he puts out, but I do also understand that people will lose interest if the focus is not mostly on the main core of the roster. One would assume that a lot of contracts should be coming up soon so I do expect some cuts to be made. Elevation is also a thing now. Keep the lower tiered talent there and have them build storylines on that show. In tandem, you have to let go of some people eventually. Experience will lead to progress. Tony Khan has always been one to react to feedback from what we've seen so I do expect some kind of pivot to his formula and method of operating.


----------



## yeahright2

RainmakerV2 said:


> But but but attitude era factions!!!


I´m beginning to suspect that since they couldn´t get Cornette, they settled for Russo as a consultant..


----------



## JimJackJones

DammitChrist said:


> Sure, let's ignore those multiple instances where Orange Cassidy has indeed drawn in this blind attack regarding this dip


Do you know how many people that I know who would watch him on TV toe tapping and never give AEW a chance again?. Trust me, a lot of people.

For every 100,000 fans they get for having him on the roster there would be 2 million fans that would laugh and say how stupid the shit is. You know who these people are? They are the people who the attitude era managed to get and the current generation cannot. These are the people at office buildings and adults who watch boxing and UFC. The majority of those fans used to watch The Rock and Austin. Now when they tune in they see an anorexic guy with a white shirt pretend kick people in the shin. Khan is willing to sacrifice all of that just to make a few thousand indy fans smile. He's terrible, bottom line.

I swear I've entered the twilight zone or something. Companies literally have thousands of hours of video and history available to study to make a blue sheet on how to make pro wrestling work and they do the exact opposite. What's even worse is that you have fans who encourage it. SMH


----------



## TD Stinger

AEW beat NXT in Male 18-49, though NXT did beat AEW in the Female 18-49. I mean, barely, but they beat them.

You know what that means folks. Cameron Grimes draws the ladies.

Speaking seriously, this does feel a bit alarming. Maybe "alarming" is too strong of a word but it's what comes to mind. I made the point last week that AEW seemed stagnant coming out of Revolution. I mean they had the Shaq match on 3/3 which did their largest viewership of the year and then they had Revolution on 3/7 which did their best buy rate ever. But coming out of that show, even if there's been good things on the show, the ratings and viewership don't seem to indicate there being any upward momentum coming out of those big shows.

I'll be interested to see how AEW and NXT do next week. NXT will apparently be simulcasted on both USA Network and Peacock/WWE Network. So perhaps a good number of fans watch it there as opposed to USA where there will be commercials and they don't see some huge jump in viewership.

AEW I have no idea. Every time I assume they're going to be higher they always end up lower. But I know the day I go much lower they'll score a huge rating, lol.


----------



## rbl85

TD Stinger said:


> AEW beat NXT in Male 18-49, though NXT did beat AEW in the Female 18-49. I mean, barely, but they beat them.
> 
> You know what that means folks. Cameron Grimes draws the ladies.
> 
> Speaking seriously, this does feel a bit alarming. Maybe "alarming" is too strong of a word but it's what comes to mind. I made the point last week that AEW seemed stagnant coming out of Revolution. I mean they had the Shaq match on 3/3 which did their largest viewership of the year and then they had Revolution on 3/7 which did their best buy rate ever. But coming out of that show, even if there's been good things on the show, the ratings and viewership don't seem to indicate there being any upward momentum coming out of those big shows.
> 
> I'll be interested to see how AEW and NXT do next week. NXT will apparently be simulcasted on both USA Network and Peacock/WWE Network. So perhaps a good number of fans watch it there as opposed to USA where there will be commercials and they don't see some huge jump in viewership.
> 
> AEW I have no idea. Every time I assume they're going to be higher they always end up lower. *But I know the day I go much lower they'll score a huge rating, lol.*


Next week is going to be lower.


----------



## Danielallen1410

There are too many dull wrestlers in the roster. It would be much better if he cut the roster almost in half. 

He’s far too loyal to dull boring wrestlers, he should focus the company around known wrestlers like Jericho, sting, Christian, Moxley, Cody, Paul wight, Miro.

Yeah they are ex wwe and old but that’s what draws ex wwe fans and from there you build up others.

AEW have tried too hard to build up people who don’t need building up. I mean who wants to see John silver in a main event? It’s pathetic.


----------



## .christopher.

yeahright2 said:


> I´m beginning to suspect that since they couldn´t get Cornette, they settled for Russo as a consultant..


Funny thing is Russo thinks this show is a mess, too.

Imagine that. Putting on such a shit show that you united Cornette and Russo. Booker of the year, folks!


----------



## qntntgood

JimJackJones said:


> The problem I see is the bloated roster. You know it's bad when you have so many people on the roster that you have to have more than three large factions in order to find something for everyone to do. The problem is that Khan is being manipulated into thinking that all of these wrestlers are his friends. He's not gonna do what needs to be done and get rid of the fat.
> 
> I really feel like the roster needs to be cut in half almost. Get rid of the whole dark order would be a good start.


I would agree on the bloated roster,the problem Bo one is use the right.and the old school is, title belt are what builds a start.not faction wars, that make no sense.but I get what they are doing,for the next event which is blood and guts.


----------



## Christopher Near

I've said this before

People made fun of edge on nxt guess Christian isn't either even after all the hype


----------



## qntntgood

Danielallen1410 said:


> There are too many dull wrestlers in the roster. It would be much better if he cut the roster almost in half.
> 
> He’s far too loyal to dull boring wrestlers, he should focus the company around known wrestlers like Jericho, sting, Christian, Moxley, Cody, Paul wight, Miro.
> 
> Yeah they are ex wwe and old but that’s what draws ex wwe fans and from there you build up others.
> 
> AEW have tried too hard to build up people who don’t need building up. I mean who wants to see John silver in a main event? It’s pathetic.


 there are too many flip flop guys,who have Match with no logic behind them


----------



## Geert Wilders

The product is just not what it was in October 2019. It needs simple but engaging storylines. When it’s hard to keep up with a storyline, people will stop watching.


----------



## Cube2

yeahright2 said:


> I´m beginning to suspect that since they couldn´t get Cornette, they settled for Russo as a consultant..


russo gave up watching aew months ago.


----------



## yeahright2

Cube2 said:


> russo gave up watching aew months ago.


Russo isn´t exactly known for speaking the truth.. He flat out LIED about working for Impact.


----------



## kingfrass44

izhack111 said:


> If Aew dont care about the raitings so why I need to care about it?


lol


----------



## llj

The product is getting too much like a WWE wannabe, but with a TNA-level roster of washed old people or WWE rejects. This is not the alternative lapsed WWE fans hoped for.


----------



## Cube2

yeahright2 said:


> Russo isn´t exactly known for speaking the truth.. He flat out LIED about working for Impact.


put the blame on the booker of the year tony khan. he writes this shit.


----------



## Kentucky34

Stick a fork in this show.

It's done.


----------



## Swan-San

The products been the same since the start. It's just wrestling matches that mostly aren't good. Average joe wrestlers for the most part. No storylines even though they think they're doing storylines. It's just bad. It's a cult. They have no intention of growing unless it's by doing the same thing. They would be doing RAW or Smackdown numbers by now if it were any good. They've had the exposure - the new billionaire company, the debuts, the celebrities, the mentions in the media, the only reason they're not is because the product sucks.


----------



## Kentucky34

I just don't see a way back for them. 

They've lost over half their audience in less than 18 months. Sure they may get a small boost once NXT moves to another night but it won't last. 

The company will be relegated to a smaller network in under 5 years time.


----------



## Kentucky34

DammitChrist said:


> Sure, let's ignore those multiple instances where Orange Cassidy has indeed drawn in this blind attack regarding this dip


The novelty wore off months ago I am afraid. 

As did the novelty of having an alternative to WWE.


----------



## rbl85

llj said:


> The product is getting too much like a WWE wannabe, but *with a TNA-level roster *of washed old people or WWE rejects. This is not the alternative lapsed WWE fans hoped for.


Stupid to say that when a lot of WWE wrestlers were in TNA.


----------



## holy

Nice to see more and more viewers giving a fuck you to Tony Khan.

THIS is the price you pay for taking viewers for granted!

Calling the return of Pac "a shift in the balance of power for pro wrestling," and hyping poor Christian to be some huge mega-star debuting is surely gonna run fans off. Not to mention that botched PPV ending.

Oh and in Tony's mind, the association with TNA, which has been dead for like a decade, was supposed to be some game-changing move.

The declines since Revolution have been alarming.


----------



## rbl85

Damn the list keep growing


----------



## DammitChrist

Alright, this will be an unpopular comment on here; but last night was a great episode overall quality-wise, and that show deserved AT LEAST 900 thousand viewers. 

There were a couple of minor blemishes on the show that were easily drowned out by the major positives from the episode for me.

It's honestly my favorite Dynamite episode this year so far.


----------



## Kentucky34

DammitChrist said:


> Alright, this will be an unpopular comment on here; but last night was a great episode overall quality-wise, and that show deserved AT LEAST 900 thousand viewers.
> 
> There were a couple of minor blemishes on the show that were easily drowned out by the major positives from the episode for me.
> 
> It's honestly my favorite Dynamite episode this year so far.


If it deserved 900k viewers it would have drawn 900k viewers.


----------



## llj

rbl85 said:


> Stupid to say that when a lot of WWE wrestlers were in TNA.


That's exactly what I was meaning. They should be picking up as FEW WWE rejects as they can, but they've scooped up a few of them already months after they left the WWE. That's exactly what TNA did, and why I think it's a problem.

And the old guys--Christian or whatnot? Big Show? Even though these guys aren't in the "title picture" they present the audience with faces people got tired of years ago.

And if you're saying WWE picks up TNA guys also...who cares? I hate the WWE anyway so what mistakes they make is just 1 in a million of them already and I'm not hear to complain about the WWE (you can find those in the Asuka thread). I'm talking what AEW needs to do to distinguish themselves from the WWE, and they just aren't doing it so far. I'd argue they've gotten worse from their first 6 months when they WERE trying to be different.


----------



## El Hammerstone

llj said:


> That's exactly what I was meaning. They should be picking up as FEW WWE rejects as they can, but they've scooped up a few of them already months after they left the WWE. That's exactly what TNA did, and why I think it's a problem.
> 
> And the old guys--Christian or whatnot? Big Show? Even though these guys aren't in the "title picture" they present the audience with faces people got tired of years ago.


I agree with you, but I think he meant it the other way around


----------



## rbl85

llj said:


> That's exactly what I was meaning. They should be picking up as FEW WWE rejects as they can, but they've scooped up a few of them already months after they left the WWE. That's exactly what TNA did, and why I think it's a problem.
> 
> And the old guys--Christian or whatnot? Big Show? Even though these guys aren't in the "title picture" they present the audience with faces people got tired of years ago.


Big Show only appear on Youtube


----------



## DammitChrist

holy said:


> *Nice to see more and more viewers giving a fuck you to Tony Khan.*
> 
> THIS is the price you pay for taking viewers for granted!
> 
> Calling the return of Pac "a shift in the balance of power for pro wrestling," and hyping poor Christian to be some huge mega-star debuting is surely gonna run fans off. Not to mention that botched PPV ending.
> 
> Oh and in Tony's mind, the association with TNA, which has been dead for like a decade, was supposed to be some game-changing move.
> 
> The declines since Revolution have been alarming.


Yep, it's very "nice" to see you root for a good product to have less viewers.


----------



## rbl85

El Hammerstone said:


> I agree with you, but I think he meant it the other way around


The problem is when they sign someone who never was in the WWE, 95% of the people are like " who ?" or "oh an other no name"


----------



## holy

DammitChrist said:


> Yep, it's very "nice" to see you root for a good product to have less viewers.


The product isn't good dude, and the numbers reflect that. Only some fans online think AEW is the greatest thing since sliced bread, while majority are starting to see that the product sucks.

If the show were good, I would want them to do well. I myself turned it off after seeing Christian's slow match.


----------



## llj

rbl85 said:


> The problem is when they sign someone who never was in the WWE, 95% of the people are like " who ?" or "oh an other no name"


You can't please everyone. What you need to do is have a plan and stick to it. AEW is starting to go down the path every failed WWE competitor did. 

What's worse is that despite hiring a boatload of WWE rejects and past legends to help support the younger guys, the program is actually losing viewers now. So clearly their stunt hires don't work.

And I won't even go into the angles, which actually have much of the same buffoonery as RAW or Smackdown.

The only thing right now that distinguishes AEW from WWE is that there isn't one single guy or girl the owner is overly fixated on. That's it.


----------



## El Hammerstone

rbl85 said:


> The problem is when they sign someone who never was in the WWE, 95% of the people are like " who ?" or "oh an other no name"


Maybe, but I've never said those things; I've advocated for tons of different independent talent this past year. If the new talent impresses, people won't be saying "who?" for long


----------



## Kentucky34

Why do AEW fans expect their weekly show to draw?

They have Omega as their champion, a few WWE mid carders, and some guys who wouldn't cut it on NXT. 

That's it.


----------



## Shleppy

I’m one of the lapsed wrestling fans (big fan of 90’s WWF, WCW, ECW) that AEW wanted to bring back and they did bring me back and I’ve watched AEW regularly since it started a couple years ago.

However, the poor booking of Dynamite with a million factions, long matches, spot fests, too many tag team matches and how I feel like I wasted my money for the last PPV have made me a lapsed fan yet again. I couldn’t even make it through all of Dynamite last night.

Thanks for the effort Tony Khan, unfortunately it didn’t work out for this fan.


----------



## Joe Gill

DammitChrist said:


> Yep, it's very "nice" to see you root for a good product to have less viewers.


less viewers means there will be pressure on TK to change the format of the show from all friends wrestling which spends half the program showcasing jobbers and vanilla talent to all elite wresting focusing on the main guys who can actually draw.


----------



## iarwain

holy said:


> hyping poor Christian to be some huge mega-star debuting is surely gonna run fans off.


I don't think that's quite fair. They said a Hall of Fame level talent, which was true. And that it wasn't who we thought it was, which meant it wasn't Punk. I agree it was poorly handled though, they should have just let it be a surprise, and that would have gotten a much better reaction.


----------



## validreasoning

rbl85 said:


> Stupid to say that when a lot of WWE wrestlers were in TNA.


Alot?

Out of the 94 men and women listed on main roster between Raw/SD on Wikipedia only 13 have worked for TNA..vast majority of those ie Drew, Lashley, R-Truth, Morrison, MVP started in WWE first


----------



## rbl85

validreasoning said:


> Alot?
> 
> Out of the 94 men and women listed on main roster between Raw/SD on Wikipedia only 13 have worked for TNA..vast majority of those ie Drew, Lashley, R-Truth, Morrison, MVP started in WWE first


AEW more or less the same number


----------



## TD Stinger

iarwain said:


> I don't think that's quite fair. They said a Hall of Fame level talent, which was true. And that it wasn't who we thought it was, which meant it wasn't Punk. I agree it was poorly handled though, they should have just let it be a surprise, and that would have gotten a much better reaction.


Big Show said "hall of fame worthy" talent, which you can certainly say Christian is. But then Tony Khan the next day had to up that by saying "huge, huge star".

Now, I'm as happy to see Christian back as anyone else. That said, I would not describe him as a "huge, huge star" in 2021. So in that sense he/they opened pandora's box. But let's also be honest about this, they were probably happy with all the buzz and attention this got anyways.


----------



## izhack111

I dont care what you say I said it before and I will say it again...they need writers and people who know how to book and write a show!


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Alright, this will be an unpopular comment on here; but last night was a great episode overall quality-wise, and that show deserved AT LEAST 900 thousand viewers.
> 
> There were a couple of minor blemishes on the show that were easily drowned out by the major positives from the episode for me.
> 
> It's honestly my favorite Dynamite episode this year so far.


It got what it deserved. It had some great segments but also some really bad ones. Which is why I keep calling it schizophrenic booking. It is clear what they are offering is appealing to less and less people.


----------



## rbl85

Two Sheds said:


> It got what it deserved. It had some great segments but also some really bad ones. Which is why I keep calling it schizophrenic booking. It is clear what they are offering is appealing *to less and less people.*


I think i should remind people that AEW at the end of the week does not have less viewers than 2-3 months ago.

The show might have lost some live viewers but since a few weeks the DvR number is increasing. So it's not like people are not watching Dynamite anymore but they don't think it's worthy to watch it live.


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> I think i should remind people that AEW at the end of the week does not have less viewers than 2-3 months ago.
> 
> The show might have lost some live viewers but since a few weeks the DvR number is increasing. So it's not like people are not watching Dynamite anymore but they don't think it's worthy to watch it live.


Honestly curious, what is the company that publishes the DVR data? I know ShowBuzz does for the live stuff based on Nielsen, but where are these DVR numbers coming from?


----------



## rbl85

Two Sheds said:


> Honestly curious, what is the company that publishes the DVR data? I know ShowBuzz does for the live stuff based on Nielsen, but where are these DVR numbers coming from?


I don't have any idea.


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> I don't have any idea.


So you have no idea where they come from, but you are quoting them as fact because you read them on the internet? I think I will hold off saying anything either way though until I see an actual source.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Yikes, the downwards trend continues. I didn’t expect it to get this low. That Dynamite viewership is 32% of what Smackdown did last week, 

This seems extremely low as they were consistently on around 45% last year. Anyone thinking NXT moving is suddenly going to get them an increase of 250k-300k to get to 1m is in dreamland.

At best they will go back to mid 800s which is what they got on a regular basis last year with competition. The new company shine has worn off.


----------



## rbl85

Two Sheds said:


> So you have no idea where they come from, but you are quoting them as fact because you read them on the internet? I think I will hold off saying anything either way though until I see an actual source.


Oh no i misunderstood your previous post, i thought you was asking how did they know (like what technique is used) how much people dvr the shows XD
The numbers come from Meltzer.


----------



## DammitChrist

They’ll make it back to 1 million views once everything finally goes back to normal. I have no doubt that they’re capable of doing that.


----------



## Dark Emperor

rbl85 said:


> Oh no i misunderstood your previous post, i thought you was asking how did they know (like what technique is used) how much people dvr the shows XD
> The numbers come from Meltzer.


Hahaha no surprise the meaningless numbers came from Meltzer.

Does he also give DVR numbers for Raw & Smackdown plus inform fans of their record YouTube views to justify the decline in TV ratings?


----------



## rbl85

DammitChrist said:


> They’ll make it back to 1 million views once everything finally goes back to normal. I have no doubt that they’re capable of doing that.


1 million live or with dvr ?


----------



## DammitChrist

rbl85 said:


> 1 million live or with dvr ?


I’m referring to live viewers. 

I bet the numbers are even higher if you include the DVR viewership.


----------



## rbl85

DammitChrist said:


> I’m referring to live viewers.
> 
> I bet the numbers are even higher if you include the DVR viewership.


With Dvr they are already doing +1M
But with live viewers for the moment let's go little by little if at the end of the may they can do an average of 850-900K it'll be enough.


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> Oh no i misunderstood your previous post, i thought you was asking how did they know (like what technique is used) how much people dvr the shows XD
> The numbers come from Meltzer.


Meltzer??? So they come from a partisan source with no way for anyone to independently verify. Honestly, unverifiable numbers should be banned on here like unreliable news sites are. Based on that, they have no meaning to any conversation here.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

JimJackJones said:


> Why for telling the truth?
> 
> AEW need people like me who give valid and deserved criticism so they can learn from their mistakes and change. They have already changed a bunch of things this year that their fanbase complained about and it's helped them improve slightly.
> 
> This company needs more fans like me who speak up. They don't need echo chambers and cheer leaders. The IWC as a whole don't know what they want and never have. They'll beg for someone like Kenta to come on TV to fit in with the sheep and won't even tune in to watch him.
> 
> I really hope this place isn't an echo chamber cult like the AEW reddit. It's not a good sign that I already got called out as a rejoin for not putting a fake smile and praising the company.
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said in my post above. The IWC don't know what they want and never have, let alone how to tie their own shoes in the morning. Vince was a genius because he knew in his heart what he felt was right and he executed without being swayed by the IWC's opinion. It wasn't until he started listening to the IWC that the WWE lost it's identity and started to be a shell of it's former self.


lllllloooolllll, Fuccccck off Chip


----------



## La Parka

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lllllloooolllll, Fuccccck off Chip


Rent free


----------



## rbl85

Two Sheds said:


> Meltzer??? So they come from a partisan source with no way for anyone to independently verify. Honestly, unverifiable numbers should be banned on here like unreliable news sites are. Based on that, they have no meaning to any conversation here.


So the Dvr numbers given by Meltzer are a problem but the quarters numbers who come also from Meltzer are fine ?

Every numbers on this topic except the average number of the show come from Meltzer.


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> So the Dvr numbers given by Meltzer are a problem but the quarters numbers who come also from Meltzer are fine ?
> 
> Every numbers on this topic except the average number of the show come from Meltzer.


If the quarter hour numbers are ONLY coming from Meltzer and not a verifiable source, then of course they are not fine. Where is HE getting them?


----------



## rbl85

Two Sheds said:


> If the quarter hour numbers are ONLY coming from Meltzer and not a verifiable source, then of course they are not fine. Where is HE getting them?


I believe he is paying for them


----------



## 3venflow

Meltzer thinks the blood and violence are driving females away. The lack of females are generally what are dragging down ratings, with the male base still strong.

Personally, I like a wrestling product to feel a bit edgy and adult, but perhaps they will have to tone down some of the blading and bloody brawls to regain some female viewers.

May come as a surprise, but this week's Dynamite drew more viewers than it's equivalent last year (685k). The world was really entering the pandemic then though, and the April 1st show began a sudden and sharp downturn in ratings from regular high 800s to 930k down to seven shows doing in the 600ks from April to June. That's a path they won't want to go down again.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Theyll never see a million again barring a crazy signing like Punk or Lesnar.


----------



## rbl85

3venflow said:


> Meltzer thinks the blood and violence are driving females away. *The lack of females are generally what are dragging down ratings*, with the male base still strong.
> 
> Personally, I like a wrestling product to feel a bit edgy and adult, but perhaps they will have to tone down some of the blading and bloody brawls to regain some female viewers.
> 
> May come as a surprise, but this week's Dynamite drew more viewers than it's equivalent last year (685k). The world was really entering the pandemic then though, and the April 1st show began a sudden and sharp downturn in ratings from regular high 800s to 930k down to seven shows doing in the 600ks from April to June. That's a path they won't want to go down again.


Female segments usually are doing well with the 50+ demo (old pervert XD)


----------



## 3venflow

@rbl85 I mean actual female viewers of the show, not the female talent. The women have been doing some good numbers for AEW lately compared to before.

Speaking of which, seems that Riho usually does well in the ratings department but has disappeared again. Is she back in Japan?


----------



## DestinationUnknown

I really think given everything going on at the moment 700k is a good number. Keep in mind Meltzer said the network was only expecting 500 so this is a win. Also they again win the demo which is like the hundredth week in a row. Good on AEW for consistently being a good show


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> I believe he is paying for them


Unverifiable data can only be taken with a grain of salt. If you are the ONLY source for data, you can make it tell the story you want.


----------



## DestinationUnknown

DammitChrist said:


> Alright, this will be an unpopular comment on here; but last night was a great episode overall quality-wise, and that show deserved AT LEAST 900 thousand viewers.
> 
> There were a couple of minor blemishes on the show that were easily drowned out by the major positives from the episode for me.
> 
> It's honestly my favorite Dynamite episode this year so far.


 I absolutely agree. It was easily my favorite episode and deserve more but we all know that having a good show this week means next week will improve in ratings. I think they will hit just a bit over 900 thousand next week, or the week after considering NXT is hot shotting an entire PPV against them again!


----------



## llj

I don't think female WRESTLING viewers care about the blood. That's just Meltzer being old fashioned and sexist again. If they were squeamish, they wouldn't watch a genre where there is a lot of violent matches in its history. I could probably find just as many female fans who liked the match. In fact, I have seen some online who liked it.

They're doing something else wrong. Whether it's not showing enough women division, or showing enough of the hunkier guys with female fanbases, they need to figure out why they are losing demos and female viewers.

I also think they are dropping the ball with Omega. This guy IS handsome, he can work and should be killing it with female viewers and AEW fans. But he isn't. His segments are losing key demo and a lot of it is they aren't packaging him in as appealing a way as they could. 

I still think Christian signing was a big move that backfired on them and pissed off some audiences. First he's old (AEW is supposed to appeal to younger audiences than the WWE), and second he's also not the "legend" they hyped him up to be.


----------



## RainmakerV2

DestinationUnknown said:


> I really think given everything going on at the moment 700k is a good number. Keep in mind Meltzer said the network was only expecting 500 so this is a win. Also they again win the demo which is like the hundredth week in a row. Good on AEW for consistently being a good show


They said that at the beginning. We're going on a year and a half in and TNT is giving them a LOT. To act like they're gonna be happy with 600-700k forever and ever is pretty fanboyish.


----------



## holy

iarwain said:


> I don't think that's quite fair. They said a Hall of Fame level talent, which was true. And that it wasn't who we thought it was, which meant it wasn't Punk. I agree it was poorly handled though, they should have just let it be a surprise, and that would have gotten a much better reaction.


Yes, Christian coming as a surprise would've been great and a legitimate "holy shit!" moment, considering we just saw him in the Royal Rumble match recently.

The problem with the suspense of the announcement is that Tony Khan never even attempted to downplay the announcement hype even a little after the monstrous buzz they created. All sorts of megastar names were being thrown around on social media, from the ridiculous impossible names (John Cena) to more realistic possibilities (Brock Lesnar). Tony Khan should've realized that he needs to slow the hype train down a little given that Christian is nowhere as big of a name as them.

I remember this one podcast where Mark Henry seemed really excited, and Tony definitely made it seem like it's someone bigger than Christian to keep Mark's excitement levels high.


----------



## Prosper

RainmakerV2 said:


> They said that at the beginning. We're going on a year and a half in and TNT is giving them a LOT. To act like they're gonna be happy with 600-700k forever and ever is pretty fanboyish.


For the duration of this contract they’re fine, so hypothetically 700K would be fine for the next 4 years and we all know the numbers will keep fluctuating up and down regardless. They are giving them additional slots based on this average. When new terms and new contracts come around they can either renew them at the same expectations or expect more. I’m assuming they’ll just renew them. So yeah ratings are important and they need to pivot to increase them but as it stands now there is no doom and gloom.


----------



## RapShepard

Do with this what thy will


----------



## DestinationUnknown

RainmakerV2 said:


> They said that at the beginning. We're going on a year and a half in and TNT is giving them a LOT. To act like they're gonna be happy with 600-700k forever and ever is pretty fanboyish.


500k was expected for this contract period. So when the next one is signed they will be expected to improve, or at least stay the same. The fact that you guys don't see an extra 200k over expectations as a win makes me laugh. Prosper has explained it amazingly again.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> I think i should remind people that AEW at the end of the week does not have less viewers than 2-3 months ago.
> 
> The show might have lost some live viewers but since a few weeks the DvR number is increasing. So it's not like people are not watching Dynamite anymore but they don't think it's worthy to watch it live.





Two Sheds said:


> So you have no idea where they come from, but you are quoting them as fact because you read them on the internet? I think I will hold off saying anything either way though until I see an actual source.


Showbuzz does 3 and 7 day DVR numbers. But the fact that we are now at DVR numbers shows that some pro fans are desperate to spin whatever decline as nothing. Save @Prosper who's consistently said all shows get more than the ratings. 

Though despite the decline like Raw, SmackDown, and NXT they'll be fine as they're not doing terrible demo wise. Unless TNT just decided they hate wrestling or they drop to Impact numbers, they should be cool.


----------



## RainmakerV2

DestinationUnknown said:


> 500k was expected for this contract period. So when the next one is signed they will be expected to improve, or at least stay the same. The fact that you guys don't see an extra 200k over expectations as a win makes me laugh. Prosper has explained it amazingly again.



Im just trying to figure whos alt you are at this point.


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> Do with this what thy will
> View attachment 99468


Yeah because Tony's commercials are the reason they dropped when the commercials have been airing since January lol


----------



## RainmakerV2

Prosper said:


> Yeah because Tony's commercials are the reason they dropped when the commercials have been airing since January lol



You figure a guy whos gonna win 6 world titles across 4 companies or whatever being on there all the time now would help eh.




Funny.


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> Yeah because Tony's commercials are the reason they dropped when the commercials have been airing since January lol


I mean pre Kenny and Tony they weren't doing as bad, which is surprising. Only thing I can guess is some diehard Impact fans are pissed at them being treated as the 2nd rate fed they now are. You got to admit those Tony commercials are basically a rich geek calling you a broke limp dick loser for watching that show . I could see how folk would tune out lol


----------



## DammitChrist

Kenny Omega thankfully isn’t dropping that world championship anytime soon.

There’s still plenty of good mileage left in his current title reign.


----------



## Prosper

RainmakerV2 said:


> You figure a guy whos gonna win 6 world titles across 4 companies or whatever being on there all the time now would help eh.
> 
> 
> Funny.


You never know what cable people will like. That's why I said earlier that OC when he was pushed drawing more than Kenny Omega is now was baffling to me. Kenny Omega & Don Callis are incredible but the Neilson cable people might think differently, doesn't mean the rest of the fanbase thinks the same though.



RapShepard said:


> I mean pre Kenny and Tony they weren't doing as bad, which is surprising. Only thing I can guess is some diehard Impact fans are pissed at them being treated as the 2nd rate fed they now are. You got to admit those Tony commercials are basically a rich geek calling you a broke limp dick loser for watching that show [emoji23]. I could see how folk would tune out lol


Tony fries the shit outta them lol but the show itself is also bad from what I've seen. How diehard are you if you let Tony's commercials sway you away from something that you love to watch? That's so weak-minded.


----------



## DestinationUnknown

RainmakerV2 said:


> Im just trying to figure whos alt you are at this point.


I am nobodies alt. I am just someone that wants to talk wrestling with people who enjoy what I enjoy. I wish there was a better place to do it, this place isn't very nice at all.


----------



## RainmakerV2

DestinationUnknown said:


> I am nobodies alt. I am just someone that wants to talk wrestling with people who enjoy what I enjoy. I wish there was a better place to do it, this place isn't very nice at all.



If you want a place where 98 percent of threads is about how good AEW is r/squaredcircle will be heaven for you.


----------



## Prosper

DestinationUnknown said:


> I am nobodies alt. I am just someone that wants to talk wrestling with people who enjoy what I enjoy. I wish there was a better place to do it, this place isn't very nice at all.


This place is miserable. There are better places. Only reason I post here is because I'm used to it and I like some of the posters. I didn't do my research on other forums until last year but there are certainly places where people are far more objective where the positive and the negative are both talked about constructively and rationally.


----------



## DestinationUnknown

Prosper said:


> This place is miserable. There are better places. Only reason I post here is because I'm used to it and I like some of the posters. I didn't do my research on other forums until last year but there are certainly places where people are far more objective where the positive and the negative are both talked about constructively and rationally.


Can you DM me? I am curious about the other places


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> Tony fries the shit outta them lol but the show itself is also bad from what I've seen. How diehard are you if you let Tony's commercials sway you away from something that you love to watch? That's so weak-minded.


I think it's kind of like when you stick with a partner through a really long extended rough patch because you're doing it out of love. Then somebody finally goes "aye you know it's okay to say enough is enough, I got hot water and electric at my house" [emoji23]


----------



## rbl85

3venflow said:


> @rbl85 I mean actual female viewers of the show, not the female talent. The women have been doing some good numbers for AEW lately compared to before.
> 
> Speaking of which, seems that Riho usually does well in the ratings department but has disappeared again. Is she back in Japan?


She posted a photo of her backstage 4 days ago


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> Showbuzz does 3 and 7 day DVR numbers. But the fact that we are now at DVR numbers shows that some pro fans are desperate to spin whatever decline as nothing. Save @Prosper who's consistently said all shows get more than the ratings.
> 
> Though despite the decline like Raw, SmackDown, and NXT they'll be fine as they're not doing terrible demo wise. Unless TNT just decided they hate wrestling or they drop to Impact numbers, they should be cool.


No no the point of my post was just to show that the viewers didn't just stop watching Dynamite but at no point the goal was to say "hey it's great they're doing 1m with dvr".

Now they have to find something to transform some dvr viewers into live viewers


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> I think it's kind of like when you stick with a partner through a really long extended rough patch because you're doing it out of love. Then somebody finally goes "aye you know it's okay to say enough is enough, *I got hot water and electric at my house" *[emoji23]


LMAO 😂


----------



## The XL 2

Building the show around the Bucks, Omega, and Cody is a horrific idea. They should put Omega in the midcard, cut Codys on screen time, and put the Bucks in their rightful role as enhancement talent. They need to also get guys like OC, Best Friends, QT, etc, off national television.


----------



## rbl85

Two Sheds said:


> Unverifiable data can only be taken with a grain of salt. If you are the ONLY source for data, you can make it tell the story you want.


So it's only now after all this time that you start complaining about it ? XD


----------



## Randy Lahey

I will blame the bad rating on the Christian- Kaz match to open the show. If you want people to stick around and watch, you don't open with a boring af slow rasslin match between 2 charisma-less voids


----------



## Prosper

rbl85 said:


> No no the point of my post was just to show that the viewers didn't just stop watching Dynamite but at no point the goal was to say "hey it's great they're doing 1m with dvr".
> 
> Now they have to find something to transform some dvr viewers into live viewers


NXT has also been a good show too. If there are usual live Dynamite viewers switching over to watch their show live and watching Dynamite afterwards or the next day I wouldn't blame them. These shows leading up to their Mania weekend Takeover have been awesome and just as good if not better than Dynamite has been the last 2-3 weeks. Once those 3 big feuds end though I can't really see them keeping that hot momentum but it's good to see them succeeding in drawing more than usual. I'm a fan of both shows.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Dark Emperor said:


> Yikes, the downwards trend continues. I didn’t expect it to get this low. That Dynamite viewership is 32% of what Smackdown did last week,
> 
> This seems extremely low as they were consistently on around 45% last year. Anyone thinking NXT moving is suddenly going to get them an increase of 250k-300k to get to 1m is in dreamland.
> 
> At best they will go back to mid 800s which is what they got on a regular basis last year with competition. The new company shine has worn off.


Smackdown is on free network TV. How is that even a valid comparison? I'm getting to the point where I just gotta put all the Aussie WWE clowns on ignore. I have no clue what Vince did to brainwash all you guys from that continent, but your opinions of WWE is certainly NOT that of America.

I feel like there's like 10 clones of TheWood on here, and it's like whack a mole trying to ignore all you people


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> So it's only now after all this time that you start complaining about it ? XD


No, my stance has always been that unverifiable data is not worth anything. I have said so many times on the minute by minute stuff. If Meltzer truly IS the only source of the quarter hours then they fall under the worthless rule as well.


----------



## DammitChrist

Randy Lahey said:


> I will blame the bad rating on the Christian- Kaz match to open the show. If you want people to stick around and watch, you don't open with a boring af slow rasslin match between 2 charisma-less voids


Wait, what? 

Christian Cage is arguably one of the most charismatic talents that they have on the main roster. 

I remember Frankie Kazarian getting some admiration from live crowds when they were around, especially as a member of SCU; so he’s not a “charisma vacuum” either 

Edit:

However, I can understand the opening match having a slower pace than what some folks would’ve preferred (although the action did eventually pick up dramatically for the 2nd half of the match).


----------



## DammitChrist

The XL 2 said:


> Building the show around the Bucks, Omega, and Cody is a horrific idea. They should put Omega in the midcard, cut Codys on screen time, and put the Bucks in their rightful role as enhancement talent. They need to also get guys like OC, Best Friends, QT, etc, off national television.


I like how you just listed/named EVERY good talent who SHOULD be near the top of the card in this post (except for QT Marshall who I’d keep as a low midcarder)  

A good wrestling program would (heavily) feature the rest of those guys on TV.


----------



## Randy Lahey

DammitChrist said:


> Wait, what?
> 
> Christian Cage is arguably one of the most charismatic talents that they have on the main roster.
> 
> I remember Frankie Kazarian getting some admiration from live crowds when they were around, especially as a member of SCU; so he’s not a “charisma vacuum” either
> 
> Edit:
> 
> However, I can understand the opening match having a slower pace than what some folks would’ve preferred (although the action did eventually pick up dramatically for the 2nd half of the match).


When Christian was doing comedy with Edge, he was entertaining. As a serious singles guy, he's a bore in my opinion. I don't think he's a draw at all. And the mainstream public has never heard of Kazarian like ever in his career. 

AEW should have opened with the Inner Circle - Pinnacle brawl IMO, especially since it was a taped segment anyway.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Randy Lahey said:


> When Christian was doing comedy with Edge, he was entertaining. As a serious singles guy, he's a bore in my opinion. I don't think he's a draw at all. And the mainstream public has never heard of Kazarian like ever in his career.
> 
> AEW should have opened with the Inner Circle - Pinnacle brawl IMO, especially since it was a taped segment anyway.


Give me Christian doing battle raps in AEW and then we can talk entertaining


----------



## sideon

People trying to excuse the same ratings they laughed at when NXT got them is hilarious. Maybe just maybe the shine has worn off on AEW and this is what it'll be like from now on, and this belief that AEW is going to get NXT audience when they switch nights is ridiculous. I expect a 150k gain at most but it's going to be up to the fans that have left AEW to come back in order for them to average over a million.


----------



## JimJackJones

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lllllloooolllll, Fuccccck off Chip


First I'm Mix Asylum and now I'm some dude named Chip. 

.........Make up your damn minds people.


----------



## Mister Sinister

While I felt this week's show and last week's were stronger, there were still major issues for the mass audience.
-They simply are not taking advantage of their stars or making them the center of the show every week (you've got PAC, Christian, Paul Wight, Miro, Mox, Cody, Jericho, Penta and Fenix, but none of these f'n dudes are wrestling each other-- not a motherf'n one of them has a main event program with another main event star)
-Matches are too long
-Long matches mean too few matches and thus wrestlers come and go each week (no consistency)
-Omega's build failed to make him believable, and now he needs to drop the title
-The renta-NWO is lame
-Penis-sickle is a ratings killer too
-Dork Order is a dead horse that they need to stop feeding (while the living horses in the stable are starving)
-QT really shouldn't be on television
-Lots of these people should not be on tv (while the experienced enhancement talent is on Youtube)
-Another garbage wrestling main event to drive off viewers
-Do we have to get the jaws of life to get Miro out of this Best Friends program?


----------



## NathanMayberry

llj said:


> I also think they are dropping the ball with Omega. This guy IS handsome, he can work and should be killing it with female viewers and AEW fans. But he isn't. His segments are losing key demo and a lot of it is they aren't packaging him in as appealing a way as they could.


What about Omega is supposed to turn a North American woman on? The finger pointing and mannerisms don't. His voice doesn't. Neither does the way he dresses.

If Omega has any appeal it would be for dudes. Do you think women want to see a grown ass man lie down on the floor and ask another man to 69 him even as a joke?


----------



## Aedubya

Paint it any way u want 

700k is dreadful for AEW considering the standards they've set


----------



## oglop44

Mister Sinister said:


> -Penis-sickle is a ratings killer too


Dare I ask what/who this is supposed to mean?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

JimJackJones said:


> First I'm Mix Asylum and now I'm some dude named Chip.
> 
> .........Make up your damn minds people.


you’re all Chip at heart


----------



## The Wood

700k? Yikes.


----------



## Not Lying

Not good at all.

Something's not working and they should figure it out. I do think Moxley no longer being champion is a factor, and this Omega thing has dragged for 3 months now and I really don't give a fuck about Good Brothers. Impact involvement is minimal, it's not like Swerve is showing up kicking Omega in a hit and run.

Moxley appeals to the Hardcore fans, Omega's shtick only appeals to the hardest of hardcores who follow many promotions.


----------



## Hayabusasc

Some of their booking decisions have been uninspiring of late so this doesn't surprise me. For example we could have got Cody vs Pentagon but instead it's QT Marshall.

Now QT is undoubtedly a good trainer but do I want to watch him lead a faction? No.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Dynamite on 4/1/2020 did 685/.25, 3/31/2020 700/.26. Pretty impressive the week before Mania, all eyes are on that product for a few weeks.

Even more impressive is last year Raw beat Dynamite by 1,238,000 viewers and .33 in demo, this year it was down to 1,000,000 viewers and .30 in the demo, gains of 19% and 9% in just one year respectively.

to do that the week before Mania is insane. Props to AEW.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

sideon said:


> People trying to excuse the same ratings they laughed at when NXT got them is hilarious. Maybe just maybe the shine has worn off on AEW and this is what it'll be like from now on, and this belief that AEW is going to get NXT audience when they switch nights is ridiculous. I expect a 150k gain at most but it's going to be up to the fans that have left AEW to come back in order for them to average over a million.


Has WWE NXT even ran a .26 before opposed? I don’t see a need to laugh at NXT when they don’t get there. Their fans feel like they won the lottery getting a .21 this week.


----------



## fabi1982

TKO Wrestling said:


> Dynamite on 4/1/2020 did 685/.25, 3/31/2020 700/.26. Pretty impressive the week before Mania, all eyes are on that product for a few weeks.
> 
> Even more impressive is last year Raw beat Dynamite by 1,238,000 viewers and .33 in demo, this year it was down to 1,000,000 viewers and .30 in the demo, gains of 19% and 9% in just one year respectively.
> 
> to do that the week before Mania is insane. Props to AEW.


So you compare the RAW after WM last year with the one two weeks before? Thats...bold.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Christian vs Kaz drew 844k?


----------



## The Wood

AEW isn’t new anymore. Potential doesn’t write the cheques. A lot of fans who have been hoping for something to click with AEW might be running out of patience.


----------



## 3venflow

Not too dissimilar story to last week with the main event pulling viewers back in after a very sharp drop beforehand. Over 100,000 viewers returned for the main event, which is quite something, but that Q7 drop (the women and DO/Matt Hardy thing wasn't it?) has to be looked at.

Look at the opening QH though, a lot of people tuned in to see Christian. I predicted the opener and main event would be the best QHs but expected better in between. Not so.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

fabi1982 said:


> So you compare the RAW after WM last year with the one two weeks before? Thats...bold.


I compare week to week.This exact week v last years exact week. Otherwise you are just gerrymandering your pick.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

3venflow said:


> Not too dissimilar story to last week with the main event pulling viewers back in after a very sharp drop beforehand. Over 100,000 viewers returned for the main event, which is quite something, but that Q7 drop (the women and DO/Matt Hardy thing wasn't it?) has to be looked at.
> 
> Look at the opening QH though, a lot of people tuned in to see Christian. I predicted the opener and main event would be the best QHs but expected better in between. Not so.
> 
> View attachment 99514


QT Marshall can do that for you. Not to mention a pointless women’s match. They can’t just have a women’s match just to have one. And they should never have a QT match ever


----------



## rbl85

ProjectGargano said:


> Christian vs Kaz drew 844k?


Could have done more if they had announced it before the show


----------



## CenaFan247

Danielallen1410 said:


> Let’s be honest. I’m a fan of AEW but they dropped the ball with revolution and their shows since have been main evented by boring wrestlers.


This is true, the fact that Orange Cassidy main evented was embarrassing


----------



## TD Stinger

AEW (Overall/18-49)

Q1: 844K/396K (Kaz vs Christian)

Q2: 745K/375K (End of Kaz/Christian, Jade Cargill, beginning of QT vs Cody)

Q3: 696K/333K (QT vs Cody, Sky & Page promo, Cargill attacking Red Velvet)

Q4: 673K/343K (Moxley promo, Bononi vs Moxley, Team Taz promo, Inner Circle beatdown on Pinnacle)

Q5: 632K/311K (Don Callis confronts Matt Jackson, beginning of Lucha Bros & Laredo Kid vs Good Brothers & Kenny Omega)

Q6: 683K/332K (Lucha Bros & Loredo Kid vs Good Brothers & Kenny Omega, Britt Baker promo)

Q7: 611K/308K (Rose & Bunny vs Conti & Shida)

Q8: 717K/332K (Arcade Anarchy)

NXT (Overall/18-49)

Q1: 678K/255K (Strong vs Grimes)

Q2: 631K/247K (Kross video, Ciampa video, Escobar promo)

Q3: 646K/266K (Breeze vs Escobar, Post match for triple threat tag match)

Q4: 675K/287K (Gonzalez confronts Io, The Way tag match)

Q5: 688K/275K (Stark vs Gonzalez, Gonzalez confronts Io #2, Dunne and KUSHIDA confrontation)

Q6: 665K/283K (Cole vs O’Reilly video, Li vs Kacy & Kayden)

Q7: 638K/263K (Gonzalez confronts Io #3, Ciampa interview, Balor interview)

Q8: 596K/248K (North American Battle Royale)

Overrun: +103K overall and +39K in key demo (considered “below average” numbers for an NXT overrun)


----------



## The Wood

They did announce it before the show.

AEW is at a point where the audience is conditioned to like what they are given. Not sure if a sensible wrestling program is going to appeal to the audience that is already there.


----------



## DaSlacker

NXT, Road to WM and Takeover skews the numbers. It will always be the case when you have two wrestling shows on at the same time, that both emit similar vibes. 

When TNA went head to head with Raw for a couple of months in 2010, their lowest viewership numbers from 2009 were now their highest. Their lowest numbers were 400,000 fewer viewers than that highest number. At the time WWE wasn't even trying (HHH, Michaels, Taker, Batsita all gradually disappeared too) and TNA was throwing everything they had. 

In a few months AEW should be sitting at 0.8 to 1.0 at a minimum or 0.9 to 1.1 if they put the work in. That's 20% growth, which is a very positive thing to see. If there is no growth - then start worrying lol.


----------



## The Wood

I don’t think it being WrestleMania hurts AEW, to be honest. I think it more than likely helps them by funnelling in more fans.

These are just the numbers now.


----------



## 3venflow

Equivalent dates last year saw a drop from 819k (March 25) to 685k (April 1), among their sharpest drops ever. Someone will have to remind me of the pandemic timeline, but I think that played a part because AEW suddenly went from 865k, 906k, 766k, 932k and 816k over five weeks to months of ratings from 630k~mid to high 700k ratings with only one show topping 800k.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Hmm. Another average rating. Still doing good.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Hmm. Another average rating. Still doing good.


Yep, the show is still alive and kicking (thankfully).

That’s good news about Christian Cage too


----------



## The Wood

Is it? The other way to interpret that information is that Christian and Frankie Kazarian couldn’t keep those 800k fans. Well, the show couldn’t either.


----------



## holy

The Wood said:


> I don’t think it being WrestleMania hurts AEW, to be honest. I think it more than likely helps them by funnelling in more fans.
> 
> These are just the numbers now.


Indeed, no way is Wrestlemania hurting AEW, especially when the road to WM itself has been so piss-poor with their flagship show Raw drawing poor numbers.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Not too dissimilar story to last week with the main event pulling viewers back in after a very sharp drop beforehand. Over 100,000 viewers returned for the main event, which is quite something, but that Q7 drop (the women and DO/Matt Hardy thing wasn't it?) has to be looked at.
> 
> Look at the opening QH though, a lot of people tuned in to see Christian. I predicted the opener and main event would be the best QHs but expected better in between. Not so.
> 
> View attachment 99514


fact is...and it is a funny one

AEW shouldn’t listen to the fans, listen to themselves

the fast pace style, chaotic stuff like the main event draws - its what AEW’s traditional fans who came into the company all the way from All In wants to see

lean into that


----------



## The Wood

You then have to ask the question of whether or not there are enough AEW fans of that ilk to sustain AEW.

This was a problem ROH had when Cary Silkin was thinking about closing the company.


----------



## Prosper

holy said:


> Indeed, no way is Wrestlemania hurting AEW, especially when the road to WM itself has been so piss-poor with their flagship show Raw drawing poor numbers.


The RTWM has nothing to do with the Takeover build though. Takeover's build has been night and day compared to WM, which they're not even trying to build.


----------



## TD Stinger

Speaking into Q7 with the Women's Tag match, AEW has fallen back into the habit of the last couple of weeks of putting the Women's match in the proverbial "death slot". Right at 9:30 usually. And it doesn't help that during that match they also made the match look like background noise to the Hardy Faction/Dark Order brawl


----------



## .christopher.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> fact is...and it is a funny one
> 
> AEW shouldn’t listen to the fans, listen to themselves
> 
> the fast pace style, chaotic stuff like the main event draws - its what AEW’s traditional fans who came into the company all the way from All In wants to see
> 
> lean into that


Except AEW have been consistently losing viewers despite having shows filled with that garbage. Literally from top to bottom.

Their video game wrestling doesn't draw as shown by losing over half their audience, and they shouldn't listen to themselves because they themselves don't have a clue as to how to present a coherent show. They shouldn't listen to their fans either as they don't get wrestling.

Who they should be listening to are the experienced vets who know what they're doing. Instead, when those vets try to help, they're mocked by AEW's own talent. JR and Brandon Cutlet for example.


----------



## 3venflow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> fact is...and it is a funny one
> 
> AEW shouldn’t listen to the fans, listen to themselves
> 
> the fast pace style, chaotic stuff like the main event draws - its what AEW’s traditional fans who came into the company all the way from All In wants to see
> 
> lean into that


More than anything, it's the cliquey social media types they should not listen to. Some of these want 3-4 women's segments on Dynamite every week and call on AEW to sign every women's wrestler who appears on Dark, even though half of them are clones of each other. They are like a niche within a niche and I fear Tony Khan is too indulgent of them. No 'extremist' fans should be taken seriously, be it those types, Cornette followers or Russo followers. 

The guy he should listen to most is the data analyst who has all the minute-to-minute ratings. Those tell a story of not only what wrestlers draw individually (Mox and Darby seem to be among the top ones), but what concepts and styles draw. Do fans want a modern video game wrestling (Kenny vs. Fenix), brutal stiff wrestling (PAC vs. Eddie) or something more old school (Christian vs. Kazarian)?

Personally, I prefer a sports-based and think AEW does it well in terms of how they present titles and win/losses. But the product is so eclectic in style (from sports-based openers to dark and edgy brawls to Arcade matches), can it ever truly reach beyond the 1.2m or so who watch Dynamite each week (DVR included)?


----------



## rbl85

TD Stinger said:


> Speaking into Q7 with the Women's Tag match, AEW has fallen back into the habit of the last couple of weeks of putting the Women's match in the proverbial "death slot". Right at 9:30 usually. And it doesn't help that during that match they also made the match look like background noise to the Hardy Faction/Dark Order brawl


Quarter with Omega also did pretty well.


----------



## rbl85

For me to have a a show without big drops you need : A big match or at least a match with 2 popular guys then in Q4 an other match or segments with popular wrestlers and of course a main event with your top guys or if it's not your top guys a stipulation match (like this week) because those type of matches always do very well.

Also 1 thing that AEW is not doing and i personnaly don't understand and find dumb is that when you open the show with a big match you have to inform the viewers before the start of the show. Christian vs Kazarian would have probably done 900k if they announced the match was going to be the opener.


----------



## DammitChrist

.christopher. said:


> Except AEW have been consistently losing viewers despite having shows filled with that garbage. Literally from top to bottom.
> 
> Their video game wrestling doesn't draw as shown by losing over half their audience, and they shouldn't listen to themselves because they themselves don't have a clue as to how to present a coherent show. They shouldn't listen to their fans either as they don't get wrestling.
> 
> Who they should be listening to are the experienced vets who know what they're doing. Instead, when those vets try to help, they're mocked by AEW's own talent. JR and Brandon Cutlet for example.


Nah, they should totally listen to the hardcore audience who are passionate about the show since the overall product is actually good.

If anything, they should never listen to the anti-smarks since they’re generally pessimistic about (good) wrestling, and since they tend to be toxic contrarians who are usually against what many of the hardcore fans want. 

Anyway, I don’t see (much of) any garbage on the Dynamite shows tbh.


----------



## DammitChrist

rbl85 said:


> Quarter with Omega also did pretty well.


Hey. that’s weird. I could’ve also sworn that “nobody” cared about Kenny Omega :lol


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, they should totally listen to the hardcore audience who are passionate about the show since the overall product is actually good.
> 
> If anything, they should never listen to the anti-smarks since they’re generally pessimistic about (good) wrestling, and since they tend to be toxic contrarians who are usually against what many of the hardcore fans want.
> 
> Anyway, I don’t see (much of) any garbage on the Dynamite shows tbh.


Anti-smarks are not a thing. Appealing to the niche makes you niche. 



DammitChrist said:


> Hey. that’s weird. I could’ve also sworn that “nobody” cared about Kenny Omega :lol


They don’t. Not really. TNA hasn’t gotten any help from him. Yes, your AEW audience has been conditioned to eat him up. But there’s a reason they only have 700k people watching.


----------



## .christopher.

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, they should totally listen to the hardcore audience who are passionate about the show since the overall product is actually good.
> 
> If anything, they should never listen to the anti-smarks since they’re generally pessimistic about (good) wrestling, and since they tend to be toxic contrarians who are usually against what many of the hardcore fans want.
> 
> Anyway, I don’t see (much of) any garbage on the Dynamite shows tbh.


Most want the same thing. Good matches of different variety (length, style, stipulation based, etc) and engaging storylines. The difference is one side wants that stuff to make sense with proper pacing and without the constant breaking of kayfabe, whilst the other - AEW and their fans - just want it all over the shop without any thought of how it effects the long term product.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> Anti-smarks are not a thing. Appealing to the niche makes you niche.


Except that term actually DOES exist. 

You just keep getting defensive over this because you seem to fit into that vocal minority. 




> They don’t. Not really. TNA hasn’t gotten any help from him. Yes, your AEW audience has been conditioned to eat him up. But there’s a reason they only have 700k people watching.


Except that you’re wrong considering the fact that plenty of wrestling fans care about watching Omega perform (which is also further demonstrated by how viewership had a solid increase throughout his 6-tag match this week).


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> Except that term actually DOES exist.
> 
> You just keep getting defensive over this because you seem to fit into that vocal minority.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Except that you’re wrong considering the fact that plenty of wrestling fans care about watching Omega perform (which is also further demonstrated by how viewership had a solid increase throughout his 6-tag match this week).


No it doesn’t. It is not a wrestling term. It was made up by internet fans to label people they don’t like the opinion of. It doesn’t make sense.

And Orange Cassidy sells more shirts than Cody Rhodes. He may have moved 11. So what? You’re still appealing to a niche and that niche is small, especially in a wrestling context.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> *No it doesn’t. It is not a wrestling term. It was made up by internet fans to label people they don’t like the opinion of. It doesn’t make sense.*
> 
> And Orange Cassidy sells more shirts than Cody Rhodes. He may have moved 11. So what? You’re still appealing to a niche and that niche is small, especially in a wrestling context.


No, that wrestling term has been around since 2005 at least. 

It’s ironic that you claim that term being a “label to people that internet folks dislike the opinion of” considering the fact that anti-smarks are known to be bitter contrarians who oppose what the majority of wrestling fans want simply because they’re upset that so many folks don’t share their opinions. It’s why they should generally be looked down upon by many wrestling fans due to their insignificance. 

Anyway, that term DOES make sense. You simply just don’t WANT it to make sense.


----------



## DaSlacker

I honestly thought the first hour of Dynamite was about as strong as any good, weekly US sports entertainment show of the last 20 years. That included SmackDown 6 Era, Rhodes and D'Amore Era TNA, TNA in 2009 and 2012, SmackDown in the late 2000's, Raw in 2013, 1 hour NXT.... 

Christian and Kaz had a superb slow burning match with psychology. Jade provided a fine enough heel promo, Page and Scorpio video was nicely done. Their biggest draw Moxley was in action. Obvious something would happen in the Nightmare Factory and what they did was executed to near perfection. MJF promo followed by Inner Circle return and convincing brawl. The only logical faults were no referees breaking up the Marshall attack and the camera angles used for the IC return highlighting it as obviously scripted. But TV wrestling has been 99.9% contrived since the Attitude Era. 4.5 million were still watching it 15 years after that. 

AEW still dropped to 700,000 throughout so not sure what people recommend.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> No, that wrestling term has been around since 2005 at least.
> 
> It’s ironic that you claim that term being a “label to people that internet folks dislike the opinion of” considering the fact that anti-smarks are known to be bitter contrarians who oppose what the majority of wrestling fans want simply because they’re upset that so many folks don’t share their opinions. It’s why they should generally be looked down upon by many wrestling fans due to their insignificance.
> 
> Anyway, that term DOES make sense. You simply just don’t WANT it to make sense.


No one with any credibility has ever sincerely used the term. I’m not counting RandyOrtonIsKewl05 as a legitimate source of wrestling terminology.


----------



## Prosper

DaSlacker said:


> I honestly thought the first hour of Dynamite was about as strong as any good, weekly US sports entertainment show of the last 20 years. That included SmackDown 6 Era, Rhodes and D'Amore Era TNA, TNA in 2009 and 2012, SmackDown in the late 2000's, Raw in 2013, 1 hour NXT....
> 
> Christian and Kaz had a superb slow burning match with psychology. Jade provided a fine enough heel promo, Page and Scorpio video was nicely done. Their biggest draw Moxley was in action. Obvious something would happen in the Nightmare Factory and what they did was executed to near perfection. MJF promo followed by Inner Circle return and convincing brawl. The only logical faults were no referees breaking up the Marshall attack and the camera angles used for the IC return highlighting it as obviously scripted. But TV wrestling has been 99.9% contrived since the Attitude Era. 4.5 million were still watching it 15 years after that.
> 
> AEW still dropped to 700,000 throughout so not sure what people recommend.


It was a very good first hour. Maybe they just weren't interested in Christian/Kaz, Bononi, or the Nightmare Family angle, so they have to pivot. You never know what will appeal to the Neilson cable people though. But they are the ones that matter because they're the ones watching the commercials. Not even every cable box is accounted for. Everyone has different tastes and interests in their wrestling so I would recommend just running different storylines. NXT was also great so maybe they decided to watch that live instead. Initially just put the Nightmare Family stuff on DARK, continue to open the show with a fast paced match (those tend to work well as far as retention), then go from there.


----------



## Kentucky34

Why can't AEW fans admit that their favourite company just doesn't have mass appeal?


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> No one with any credibility has ever sincerely used the term. I’m not counting RandyOrtonIsKewl05 as a legitimate source of wrestling terminology.


If anything, you truly lose credibility by pretending like it’s not a real term (that’s been around for decades) and denying its existence/relevancy in 2021 :lol


----------



## Prosper

Kentucky34 said:


> Why can't AEW fans admit that their favourite company just doesn't have mass appeal?


No wrestling promotion has mass appeal my guy. Not even WWE.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> If anything, you truly lose credibility by pretending like it’s not a real term (that’s been around for decades) and denying its existence/relevancy in 2021 :lol


No one in wrestling uses the term. It doesn’t make sense. That’s just the truth.


----------



## Kentucky34

Prosper said:


> No wrestling promotion has mass appeal my guy. Not even WWE.


AEW has not met expectations. 

It has lost over half its audience and is struggling badly. 

It's fine if their fanboys enjoy it but I don't understand why they pretend Dynamite's ratings are good. They are losing viewers fast because the product just doesn't appeal to enough people.


----------



## fabi1982

TKO Wrestling said:


> I compare week to week.This exact week v last years exact week. Otherwise you are just gerrymandering your pick.


You are saying that they made the gap smaller and this is a positive for AEW, not saying last years RAW was the one after mania (usually much higher than usual). So the gap is smaller just because this weeks RAW is not the RAW after mania. So basically you cant read anything into that comparison. And as the typical blind AEW fan you seem to be you read into that what ever fits your agenda. Anyways, would be nice to see your Meltzerish interpretation every week, but you just do it when it fits your agenda, laughable.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> No one in wrestling uses the term. It doesn’t make sense. That’s just the truth.


This is wrestling terminology, and it’s being used appropriately here. 

OF COURSE it exists as a term, and it should continue to get used in order to describe that vocal minority who hates fun in wrestling.



fabi1982 said:


> You are saying that they made the gap smaller and this is a positive for AEW, not saying last years RAW was the one after mania (usually much higher than usual). So the gap is smaller just because this weeks RAW is not the RAW after mania. So basically you cant read anything into that comparison. And as the typical blind AEW fan you seem to be you read into that what ever fits your agenda. Anyways, would be nice to see your Meltzerish interpretation every week, but you just do it when it fits your agenda, laughable.


His interpretation is pretty reasonable though tbh, and there’s really nothing blind about his truthful observations too.


----------



## fabi1982

DammitChrist said:


> His interpretation is pretty reasonable though tbh, and there’s really nothing blind about his truthful observations too.


Comparing oranges with apples is not reasonable. Of course if your own show stays steady but the other decreases because of special circumstances, this is truthful observation, but also useless to be happy about. Will we see the same graphic in two weeks when RAW after WM is higher than the RAW a year ago and AEW in comparison is losing? Dont think so


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> No, that wrestling term has been around since 2005 at least.
> 
> It’s ironic that you claim that term being a “label to people that internet folks dislike the opinion of” considering the fact that anti-smarks are known to be bitter contrarians who oppose what the majority of wrestling fans want simply because they’re upset that so many folks don’t share their opinions. It’s why they should generally be looked down upon by many wrestling fans due to their insignificance.
> 
> Anyway, that term DOES make sense. You simply just don’t WANT it to make sense.


The term really doesn't make sense at all, if a smark is a fan that's smart to the business then the opposition of that would be a mark. Using smark to bash people who like the modern style of wrestling and anti-smark to bash people who don't like that just makes 0 sense on either side. Traditionalist vs Modernist would make much more sense to describe the warring sides. Everybody here by definition is a smark.


----------



## HugoCortez

AEW can be quite a bit contradictory when it comes to promoting their stuff. They go and hype the shit out of these hardcore gimmick matches like the Omega vs Mox ones or the Britt vs Rosa one, treating them like they were first time ever deals, as if assuming the bulk of their audience was absolutely ignorant of any wrestling that didn't happen outside of the wwe or prior to the early-mid 00s (which is actually the case, judging by how some of their fans react to them).

But then they go and promote all these signings and cameos of old names or guys from other scenes in a way that only makes sense from someone who thinks their fanbase is familiar with wrestling history, which is the opposite promotional stance of the one mentioned in the previous paragraph.


What is it going to be?


----------



## Mister Sinister

If not for Christian vs Kaz, that episode would have been among their lowest rated ever. The effects of the post-PPV show a few weeks ago have set in. I don't know if it's TNT's meddling or lack of writers for the show, but it's going to probably tumble in the ratings again next week. Climbing out of this is going to take two months of really good shows and a title change (just to get back to 900k).

The show is driven by wrestling purist theory about pushing young talent, and that originates from whinny dudes that never go the title because they never deserved it. Every big player in AEW is in a program with someone like MJF, Archer, Darby Allin, Orange Cassidy, QT, and so on. No main eventer is wrestling another main eventer. There are no big programs happening on Dynamite. This isn't how you build stars. You have to bring Kong vs Godzilla (as stupid as that movie was)-- you have to bring us something worth our time like Christian vs Cody, PAC vs Sting, Miro vs Jericho, Mox vs Paul Wight, etc.



oglop44 said:


> Dare I ask what/who this is supposed to mean?


MJF's failed Penisickle group of dandies that have interior decorators and stylists.


----------



## DestinationUnknown

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you’re all Chip at heart


Who is Chip? I keep getting told I am Garty and Prosper so I want to make sure people aren't comparing me to someone who doesn't know they're shit.


----------



## DestinationUnknown

The Definition of Technician said:


> Not good at all.
> 
> Something's not working and they should figure it out. I do think Moxley no longer being champion is a factor, and this Omega thing has dragged for 3 months now and I really don't give a fuck about Good Brothers. Impact involvement is minimal, it's not like Swerve is showing up kicking Omega in a hit and run.
> 
> Moxley appeals to the Hardcore fans, Omega's shtick only appeals to the hardest of hardcores who follow many promotions.


I disagree, TNT is only expecting 500k viewers for the entirety of this contract. Any more, especially 200k more is an absolute win. Everything is working amazingly. Also Swerve is Isaiah Scott in NXT, not Rich Swann. I think this is a little bit racist. Is this allowed @mods?

Finally, I am not a hardcore fan. I loved Mick Foley but absolutely despise death match wrestling and was glad to see CZW go out of business. I don't remember Omega wrestling many hardcore matches before that awesome barbed wire explosive match with Moxley, who did wrestle in CZW. I guess if you don't like it you don't have to watch.


----------



## DestinationUnknown

rbl85 said:


> Could have done more if they had announced it before the show


Exactly! This is what Jericho was saying. Surprises don't win demos and bring viewers, announcing it on Twitter beforehand does. AEW knows what they're doing guys


----------



## DestinationUnknown

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, they should totally listen to the hardcore audience who are passionate about the show since the overall product is actually good.
> 
> If anything, they should never listen to the anti-smarks since they’re generally pessimistic about (good) wrestling, and since they tend to be toxic contrarians who are usually against what many of the hardcore fans want.
> 
> Anyway, I don’t see (much of) any garbage on the Dynamite shows tbh.


You're absolutely right DammitChrist. I don't understand why this website hates AEW so much, the shows are damn near perfect. I wouldn't change anything, except maybe swapping Omega for Cody as face of the company. He's just better overall and worked for WWE.


----------



## Impermanence

Mister Sinister said:


> Every big player in AEW is in a program with someone like MJF, Archer, Darby Allin, Orange Cassidy, QT, and so on. No main eventer is wrestling another main eventer. There are no big programs happening on Dynamite. This isn't how you build stars. You have to bring Kong vs Godzilla (as stupid as that movie was)-- you have to bring us something worth our time like Christian vs Cody, PAC vs Sting, Miro vs Jericho, Mox vs Paul Wight, etc.


THIS. I have been wondering the same and I couldn't quite articulate it, but you just did it for me. 

If you watch episodes of Raw from Nov 2011(on the WWE Network) you'd see matches like Sheamus vs Swagger, Punk vs Ziggler, Wade Barrett vs Kofi, and Alberto del Rio squashing Zack Ryder(in a decent match) ALL on the SAME EPISODE. Or another episode would have Ziggler vs Orton, and Punk vs Alberto del Rio.. Two PPV quality matches. 

Or watch Raw Jan 5, 2009 and you'd see CM Punk vs William Regal for the IC title, Mysterio/kofi vs Miz and Morrison(surprisingly fun match), and Cena/Shawn vs Jericho/Orton in the mainevent. And I consider the rest of this episode as filler but there's still something to watch right? 

Whens the last time AEW dynamite put a card half as good? No wonder there's very little incentive to watch when all their midcard and main event guys keep facing QT Marshall, Darby Allin(who I personally refuse to take seriously because of his size), MJF, Archer, etc. 

The last tag match from Dynamite that seemed an equivalent of Cena/Shawn vs Orton/Jericho was Mox/PAC vs Omega/Page and that was from 2019. 

Even if I wanted to get invested in any big star from AEW I can't. Miro is involved with Kip Sabian/Best Friends, PAC isn't wrestling, Hangman Page was doing goofy segments with Dark Order, and the midcard title is taken up by Allin(who I can't take seriously). And Omega and Jericho are involved in factions, or don't wrestle too often anyway. 

And btw PAC vs Sting or anyone vs Sting is not a good idea.. Cinematic match or otherwise. Sting should just be used in a GM role and treated with respect instead of repetitive stupid segments of him being interrupted by Archer and Jake Roberts. Interrupting a 61 yr old legend won't make Archer a legend, winning matches and titles will.


----------



## thorn123

Such a great episode ... I feel sorry for the audience not tuning in


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

DaveRA said:


> Such a great episode ... I feel sorry for the audience not tuning in


I think that AEW lacks a consistent hook or act that people think is must see. Couple that with their short history and it makes it difficult to draw people regardless of how good the show is on any given week.


----------



## thorn123

Kentucky34 said:


> Why can't AEW fans admit that their favourite company just doesn't have mass appeal?


As an AEW fan, I can 100% agree it doesn’t have mass appeal.

But I blame the broader wrestling fandom for not giving it a fair go, not AEW.

Last weeks dynamite was near perfect.


----------



## thorn123

MonkasaurusRex said:


> I think that AEW lacks a consistent hook or act that people think is must see. Couple that with their short history and it makes it difficult to draw people regardless of how good the show is on any given week.


Perhaps you are right, but there are few must see people left in wrestling. WWE live off brand recognition that AEW don’t have.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

DaveRA said:


> Perhaps you are right, but there are few must see people left in wrestling. WWE live off brand recognition that AEW don’t have.


Identity is important and AEW doesn't have one they are still trying to figure out exactly what they want to be nor do they have the history to live off of that WWE does. All of that takes time to build and cultivate. WWE also actively tries to court a broader audience(whether it is successful o not is irrelevant) and AEW for the most part doesn't court that broader audience nor do the go after it as hard. They are fully reliant on the hardcore wrestling fan and that is a relatively small audience. I'm not sure that AEW is even searching for an act that could become a must see act. WWE for that matter seems less interested in finding one all the time. I know that more often than not these performers that become must see acts come by organically but I think that neither company is equipped to capitalize on it if it does materialize which IMO is bad for the long term health of the business.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Every single Wednesday, I see nothing but hyperboles and exaggeration about every single episode of Dynamite. About this being the best this, and the best that and when they can't say its the best, I see that it was "fun". Then now more than ever before, when Thursday afternoon hits, I see a lot of bewilderment as to why the ratings are what they are...


----------



## NathanMayberry

MonkasaurusRex said:


> WWE also actively tries to court a broader audience(whether it is successful o not is irrelevant) and AEW for the most part doesn't court that broader audience nor do the go after it as hard


Shaq, Snoop Dogg, Mike Tyson, Rick & Morty, etc. was for who exactly?


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

NathanMayberry said:


> Shaq, Snoop Dogg, Mike Tyson, Rick & Morty, etc. was for who exactly?


Everything besides Mike Tyson has been a cross promotion with other Warner properties. Shaq is on NBA on TNT, Snoop was doing Go-Big Show with Cody on TBS, Rick and Morty is on Cartoon Network. That makes it as much about corporate synergy as it is about appealing to any broad audience. The follow through with anything aside from Shaq was effectively zero. And they gave that away on TV for free. People will complain about WWE using celebrities in matches but at least they usually have the sense not to give it away for free.

Seriously look at WWE's history of using celebrities to gain a foot hold in non-wrestling industries. Cyndi Lauper and the Girls Just Wanna Have Fun video with Caption Lou eventually fed into what became a fruitful relationship between WWF and MTV. Involving Mr T in the biggest angle and match at WrestleMania. Tyson in 1998 and inserting him directly into the angle between Austin and Michaels/DX. Their usage of Floyd Mayweather all the way to what they are currently doing with Bad Bunny. It's building up to them being a presence on a BIG event. One off appearances don't do jack shit. It's about follow through. People will complain about celebrities being to involved with things but having them in the periphery doesn't usually work when trying to create a connection to them and the medium with which they are typically associated.

Anyway what I said was that they don't go after it nearly as hard as WWE did in the past or does now. And it's 100% true.


----------



## Not Lying

DestinationUnknown said:


> I disagree, TNT is only expecting 500k viewers for the entirety of this contract. Any more, especially 200k more is an absolute win. Everything is working amazingly. *Also Swerve is Isaiah Scott in NXT, not Rich Swann. I think this is a little bit racist. Is this allowed @mods?*
> 
> Finally, I am not a hardcore fan. I loved Mick Foley but absolutely despise death match wrestling and was glad to see CZW go out of business. I don't remember Omega wrestling many hardcore matches before that awesome barbed wire explosive match with Moxley, who did wrestle in CZW. I guess if you don't like it you don't have to watch.


Lol. Racist. STFU. I never paid any attention to them much and they both wrestle the same style. Swann sucks anyways.

I know what's reported, but I also know now we're onto 1 year into the pandemic, and at some point during the pandemic they were getting 800's consistently, now after adding Sting, Christian, Big Show, Miro, a bunch of other names, they go from mid 800s to 700s, it means more cost and less revenues.
How is it logical that a company is getting 850K, adds big names and huge draws (like Sting), and yet DECLINE in viewership?

Something isn't working, and my theory is Omega and Bucks Bullshit.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

The Definition of Technician said:


> Lol. Racist. STFU. I never paid any attention to them much and they both wrestle the same style. Swann sucks anyways.
> 
> I know what's reported, but I also know now we're onto 1 year into the pandemic, and at some point during the pandemic they were getting 800's consistently, now after adding Sting, Christian, Big Show, Miro, a bunch of other names, they go from mid 800s to 700s, it means more cost and less revenues.
> How is it logical that a company is getting 850K, adds big names and huge draws (like Sting), and yet DECLINE in viewership?
> 
> Something isn't working, and my theory is Omega and Bucks Bullshit.


They don't bring the viewers that they used to and that's because the audience from their peak period(s) don't exist the way the used to. Miro excluded and he just isn't all that interesting really.


----------



## Not Lying

MonkasaurusRex said:


> They don't bring the viewers that they used to and that's because the audience from their peak period(s) don't exist the way the used to. Miro excluded and he just isn't all that interesting really.


There is no denying Moxley is their biggest draw, he was their champion, ever since he lost the belt they've been shedding viewers little by little. This is a small observation, correlation doesn't equal causation, but it is what it is. I bet you if they AEW decides to throw Moxley vs Omega now again on Dynamite, they'll get the 850K+ easily.


----------



## DammitChrist

NathanMayberry said:


> Every single Wednesday, I see nothing but hyperboles and exaggeration about every single episode of Dynamite. About this being the best this, and the best that and when they can't say its the best, I see that it was "fun". Then now more than ever before, when Thursday afternoon hits, I see a lot of bewilderment as to why the ratings are what they are...


Blaming Kenny Omega (or any other individual talent) for the ratings in 2021 has got to be the saddest hyperbole on here though.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> More than anything, it's the cliquey social media types they should not listen to. Some of these want 3-4 women's segments on Dynamite every week and call on AEW to sign every women's wrestler who appears on Dark, even though half of them are clones of each other. They are like a niche within a niche and I fear Tony Khan is too indulgent of them. No 'extremist' fans should be taken seriously, be it those types, Cornette followers or Russo followers.
> 
> The guy he should listen to most is the data analyst who has all the minute-to-minute ratings. Those tell a story of not only what wrestlers draw individually (Mox and Darby seem to be among the top ones), but what concepts and styles draw. Do fans want a modern video game wrestling (Kenny vs. Fenix), brutal stiff wrestling (PAC vs. Eddie) or something more old school (Christian vs. Kazarian)?
> 
> Personally, I prefer a sports-based and think AEW does it well in terms of how they present titles and win/losses. But the product is so eclectic in style (from sports-based openers to dark and edgy brawls to Arcade matches), can it ever truly reach beyond the 1.2m or so who watch Dynamite each week (DVR included)?


the real question is - does it need to reach over 1.2m?

they should WANT to, for sure - don’t get me wrong - shoot for the stars and all that

but to continue being alive and well and make good money / 1.2m seems to be doing the job just fine

if they keep it up, their next contract is going to be interesting


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DestinationUnknown said:


> Who is Chip? I keep getting told I am Garty and Prosper so I want to make sure people aren't comparing me to someone who doesn't know they're shit.


lol, no - if you are compared to Garty or Prosper you are doing it right and you‘re a beacon of hope in Dark world

if you’re compared to @DammitChrist - you‘ve become legend


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Impermanence said:


> THIS. I have been wondering the same and I couldn't quite articulate it, but you just did it for me.
> 
> If you watch episodes of Raw from Nov 2011(on the WWE Network) you'd see matches like Sheamus vs Swagger, Punk vs Ziggler, Wade Barrett vs Kofi, and Alberto del Rio squashing Zack Ryder(in a decent match) ALL on the SAME EPISODE. Or another episode would have Ziggler vs Orton, and Punk vs Alberto del Rio.. Two PPV quality matches.
> 
> Or watch Raw Jan 5, 2009 and you'd see CM Punk vs William Regal for the IC title, Mysterio/kofi vs Miz and Morrison(surprisingly fun match), and Cena/Shawn vs Jericho/Orton in the mainevent. And I consider the rest of this episode as filler but there's still something to watch right?
> 
> Whens the last time AEW dynamite put a card half as good? No wonder there's very little incentive to watch when all their midcard and main event guys keep facing QT Marshall, Darby Allin(who I personally refuse to take seriously because of his size), MJF, Archer, etc.
> 
> The last tag match from Dynamite that seemed an equivalent of Cena/Shawn vs Orton/Jericho was Mox/PAC vs Omega/Page and that was from 2019.
> 
> Even if I wanted to get invested in any big star from AEW I can't. Miro is involved with Kip Sabian/Best Friends, PAC isn't wrestling, Hangman Page was doing goofy segments with Dark Order, and the midcard title is taken up by Allin(who I can't take seriously). And Omega and Jericho are involved in factions, or don't wrestle too often anyway.
> 
> And btw PAC vs Sting or anyone vs Sting is not a good idea.. Cinematic match or otherwise. Sting should just be used in a GM role and treated with respect instead of repetitive stupid segments of him being interrupted by Archer and Jake Roberts. Interrupting a 61 yr old legend won't make Archer a legend, winning matches and titles will.


fucking hell, i can’t believe i have to put Chip on ignore twice🤦‍♂️
go talk Raw on the raw forum you absolute nutter


----------



## La Parka

LifeInCattleClass said:


> fucking hell, i can’t believe i have to put Chip on ignore twice🤦‍♂️
> go talk Raw on the raw forum you absolute nutter


Rent free


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

The Definition of Technician said:


> There is no denying Moxley is their biggest draw, he was their champion, ever since he lost the belt they've been shedding viewers little by little. This is a small observation, correlation doesn't equal causation, but it is what it is. I bet you if they AEW decides to throw Moxley vs Omega now again on Dynamite, they'll get the 850K+ easily.


But how many times can you go to the same well in a short amount of time? It doesn't matter if it would draw 850k on Wednesday because you can't run it every week. So you run it to "pop* a rating then you fall back down, then you run it again and maybe it works again but after that you're fucked and you've ruined your only draw.


----------



## Not Lying

MonkasaurusRex said:


> But how many times can you go to the same well in a short amount of time? It doesn't matter if it would draw 850k on Wednesday because you can't run it every week. So you run it to "pop* a rating then you fall back down, then you run it again and maybe it works again but after that you're fucked and you've ruined your only draw.


My point is that Moxley was doing them the best number when he was featured as the main event.
This is all from memory, but this is how I remember things last year,
For a while last year they weren't focusing on Moxley in the main event, It was certainly around May/June (he was out for 3 weeks too), and they were getting 650-750K then, then they did with his feud Cage in the main event, continue the feud, title match with Darby, feud with MJF, defending vs Eddie and his goons.
I'm sure their average from mid-July till December when Moxley was the champion and THE GUY, he was drawing them those 820-880K fans consistently, and the big shows go in the 900s. 

You said initially



> "They don't bring the viewers that they used to and that's because the audience from their peak period(s) don't exist the way the used to. "


What did you mean by that? If by peak numbers you mean the 920K+ they do for big show, yeah those won't be easy to keep regularly, but I do believe the 820-880K fans are more willing to watch regularly with Moxley as champion and THE GUY. 

AEW just did 700K. This is not a good number. Something is to blame here.
Coming off a very hot Rosa/DMD buzz, and announcing Christian's return + Arcade main event, this can't be a good sign. 
Maybe the whole period March-June is a down period for wrestling.


----------



## 3venflow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the real question is - does it need to reach over 1.2m?
> 
> they should WANT to, for sure - don’t get me wrong - shoot for the stars and all that


Oh, not at all. What they currently have is enough to keep TNT happy and TNT is their meal ticket right now.

But they need to assess the risk that this hardcore fanbase that sustains them could slowly dwindle over time. I think if they plummeted below 500k and the demo dropped into the teens, that's when TNT might start to get jittery. That's a long way off, but TNA showed that anything is possible.

I think AEW will be fine, but like any business with ambition, they should be looking to add viewers, not fight to hold on to what they have.

I'm not one of the short-term thinkers who sees ratings drop for a few weeks and acts like a drama queen, but if the trend continues downward then they may have to closely address who or what is losing viewers and whether they need to focus on a specific theme/direction. In my opinion, as a viewer of pro wrestling from across the world since 1990, some of the Dynamites in 2021 have been among the best weekly TV since the 90s, but I'm just one person.

We saw this last year when AEW fell lower than it has in recent weeks, but that was during the start of the pandemic and I think that's a valid excuse. Right now, I'm not sure there is a mitigating factor to explain the recent decline in ratings.

Personally, I think getting back on the road with live crowds could help ratings for AEW and WWE (who also continue to lose viewers). Daily's Place with a smattering of fans (sure they get 1,000 in there but does it ever really feel like a big live crowd?) has grown stale and a change of scenery could help everyone. I want to see that big ramp back.

When it gets back to this, I think/hope it will help.


----------



## Alright_Mate

Where’s this bullshit “Shows are damn near perfect” narrative coming from...

If the shows were damn near perfect, AEW would be posting numbers in the high 800k-900k region, like they did at times last year, when they had a spell where their shows were actually consistently good.

Right now their shows are littered with inconsistencies, plus a lack of selling points.

They fucked up by producing a mess of a PPV, they lost trust from a decent number of fans, and since then they’ve done very little to gain that trust back.

Parts of Dynamite have been good, but right now nothing feels like must watch, and that’s another part of their problem.

For example, does Kenny Omega feel like a big deal atm? This guy is their World Champion, and they are shoving him on in the middle of episodes. You don’t see WWE doing that with Lashley, Roman Reigns and their respective challengers.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Oh, not at all. What they currently have is enough to keep TNT happy and TNT is their meal ticket right now.
> 
> But they need to assess the risk that this hardcore fanbase that sustains them could slowly dwindle over time. I think if they plummeted below 500k and the demo dropped into the teens, that's when TNT might start to get jittery. That's a long way off, but TNA showed that anything is possible.
> 
> I think AEW will be fine, but like any business with ambition, they should be looking to add viewers, not fight to hold on to what they have.
> 
> I'm not one of the short-term thinkers who sees ratings drop for a few weeks and acts like a drama queen, but if the trend continues downward then they may have to closely address who or what is losing viewers and whether they need to focus on a specific theme/direction. In my opinion, as a viewer of pro wrestling from across the world since 1990, some of the Dynamites in 2021 have been among the best weekly TV since the 90s, but I'm just one person.
> 
> We saw this last year when AEW fell lower than it has in recent weeks, but that was during the start of the pandemic and I think that's a valid excuse. Right now, I'm not sure there is a mitigating factor to explain the recent decline in ratings.
> 
> Personally, I think getting back on the road with live crowds could help ratings for AEW and WWE (who also continue to lose viewers). Daily's Place with a smattering of fans (sure they get 1,000 in there but does it ever really feel like a big live crowd?) has grown stale and a change of scenery could help everyone. I want to see that big ramp back.
> 
> When it gets back to this, I think/hope it will help.


Well written, good points


----------



## One Shed

Alright_Mate said:


> Where’s this bullshit “Shows are damn near perfect” narrative coming from...
> 
> If the shows were damn near perfect, AEW would be posting numbers in the high 800k-900k region, like they did at times last year, when they had a spell where their shows were actually consistently good.
> 
> Right now their shows are littered with inconsistencies, plus a lack of selling points.
> 
> They fucked up by producing a mess of a PPV, they lost trust from a decent number of fans, and since then they’ve done very little to gain that trust back.
> 
> Parts of Dynamite have been good, but right now nothing feels like must watch, and that’s another part of their problem.
> 
> For example, does Kenny Omega feel like a big deal atm? This guy is their World Champion, and they are shoving him on in the middle of episodes. You don’t see WWE doing that with Lashley, Roman Reigns and their respective challengers.


Yup. As I keep pointing out: schizophrenic booking. There are still a few people on here who want to stick their fingers in their ears and try to convince themselves that this is some revolutionary product but more and more people are seeing through it. They still have the tools to be great, but they keep adding dead weight that is dragging them down to prevent that.

Nothing about the product feels "must watch" right now and their numbers reflect that. They need some tough love now, not apologists.


----------



## DammitChrist

Two Sheds said:


> Yup. As I keep pointing out: schizophrenic booking. There are still a few people on here who want to stick their fingers in their ears and try to convince themselves that this is some revolutionary product but more and more people are seeing through it. They still have the tools to be great, but they keep adding dead weight that is dragging them down to prevent that.
> 
> Nothing about the product feels "must watch" right now and their numbers reflect that. They need some tough love now, not apologists.


Except that Dynamite episode was arguably the most fun/best show they’ve aired on TV this year quality-wise, so that’s definitely a big merit on their part. 

I’d say that it’s truly more accurate to claim that those who are covering their ears are the ones denying how good and how fun the product really is tbh.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Ratings have been disappointing since Revolution. They've always had a hardcore 750k with extra floaters for big shows. It seems the floaters may have checked out as they were disappointed with the ppv and the over hyping of the new signing 🤷‍♂️ Mox not being champ could also be a factor but the trend does seem to have shifted after Revolution. It's a little worrying that they didn't even get the usual 750k this week, esp with Christian's debut match. Not quite panic stations yet though! 

On a selfish level I've really enjoyed Dynamite for most of 2021 and thought this week was a good, fun episode. So I don't want them to change up too much personally!


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Except that Dynamite episode was arguably the most fun/best show they’ve aired on TV this year quality-wise, so that’s definitely a big merit on their part.
> 
> I’d say that it’s truly more accurate to claim that those who are covering their ears are the ones denying how good and how fun the product really is tbh.


It is obviously perfectly fine for you to think that. But it should be clear that more and more people disagree with that and are voting with their remote controls.

Now for me, I do not equate popularity with quality as there have been a ton of books, movies, television shows, etc that I have loved that were never mainstream or popular and vice versa. I HATED Avatar yet it was the movie that made the most money (not adjusting for inflation) up until 2019. The top 10/20 list of TV shows by viewers generally include all kinds of "reality" and contest shows that I think are some of the dumbest things humans have ever put to film. But a lot of people watch them.

So it does not *really *matter to me if 100,000 people or 15 million people watch Dynamite. With any program I enjoy, as long as it does well enough to stay in existence (and importantly also does not compromise its quality to try and desperately stay on the air) I am happy. It just so happens that wrestling viewership generally does parallel what I like. Wrestling has catered mostly to children and immature people for almost 15 years now, has seen a nose dive in ratings as a result, and a lot of us are tired of it. So when I see an episode that is bookended by Christian and Kazarian in a great match and then three man babies and a monster in a garbage, intelligence insulting middle school gym indy fest, there is nothing else to call it except schizophrenic. That is why some of us get so annoyed. We SEE the potential and some great execution, and then the geek squad comes out.

Now to go back to my point about ratings not really mattering to me. IF the ratings were going way UP as a result of the garbage crap, then I would laugh and just stop watching as clearly like a lot of shows it is just not for me, but that a lot of people want to see trash. But that is not what is happening. The schizophrenic booking by a guy with clear ADHD is NOT producing increasing ratings so I see hope and a reason to want to fight against what I believe IS dragging down the show. Putting geeks like Trashidy, Kip, and Chuckle in a main event (let alone any event) is driving people away and that makes me happy because that means there is still a chance that a product I will enjoy will emerge from all this.


----------



## DammitChrist

Nah, Orange Cassidy (no clue who that imaginary name you randomly invented here is at all) and Best Friends aren’t going away anytime soon thankfully since they’re a popular trio who are admired by the wrestling audience; so they’ll continue to be (heavily) featured on TV for the next several years.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, Orange Cassidy (no clue who that imaginary name you randomly invented here is at all) and Best Friends aren’t going away anytime soon thankfully since they’re a popular trio who are admired by the wrestling audience; so they’ll continue to be (heavily) featured on TV for the next several years.


I will continue to be optimistic that the geeks will end up getting featured less and less until they end up flushed back to the middle school gyms they came from. That will no doubt increase the quality of the show and increase ratings as well which is what a successful business should want. Ultimately I hope this will force WWE to change their mostly terrible creative as well and start a new boom for wrestling fans.

It is really weird for you to pretend not to understand how nicknames work, which of course have been involved in wrestling since day one.


----------



## holy

NathanMayberry said:


> Every single Wednesday, I see nothing but hyperboles and exaggeration about every single episode of Dynamite. About this being the best this, and the best that and when they can't say its the best, I see that it was "fun". Then now more than ever before, when Thursday afternoon hits, I see a lot of bewilderment as to why the ratings are what they are...


Dude I'm not sure if I'm allowed to mention the website, but there's a certain website where in the comments, people often talk about how Dynamite made them have a tear in their eye because of how amazing the show is 😂🤣


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> Except that Dynamite episode was arguably the most fun/best show they’ve aired on TV this year quality-wise, so that’s definitely a big merit on their part.
> 
> I’d say that it’s truly more accurate to claim that those who are covering their ears are the ones denying how good and how fun the product really is tbh.


No, what's truly accurate is the numbers they do outside of singular personal opinions positive or negative. The notion they're having one of the best/worst shows in decades on a weekly basis is laughable. At this point while the doomsayers are off on saying they're doing awful numbers. The "out of 75 Dynamites 69 have been at least a 8/10 so they deserve better ratings" crowd is just as off.


----------



## 3venflow

Like him or not, Cassidy has his place in AEW as a novelty and it'd be silly to axe him. He is a draw to some degree, much like Darby. The main event on Wednesday pulled back 100,000 viewers after plummeting to the low 600k region.

He is also responsible for some of AEW's most watched moments on YouTube.










It looks like Moxley and Cassidy are two of the AEW talents who draw a lot of interest.

You don't just discard someone like this, even if you don't personally enjoy what he does. He has value to the company.

Cassidy's squash win over Luther in February currently sits on 966,000 YT views. Only Sting attacking Team Taz, Shaq getting put through a table, MJF forming The Pinnacle and the Elevation debut show have more views in the month and a half since.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

RapShepard said:


> No, what's truly accurate is the numbers they do outside of singular personal opinions positive or negative. The notion they're having one of the best/worst shows in decades on a weekly basis is laughable. At this point while the doomsayers are off on saying they're doing awful numbers. The "out of 75 Dynamites 69 have been at least a 8/10 so they deserve better ratings" crowd is just as off.


There's no doubt numbers have seen a worrying trend recently but unless I'm misremembering this happened ever since Revolution...do you think the quality of the show has dropped since then? 

To me, love it or hate it, the quality of episodes has been similar/consistent since the turn of the year. If you don't like it now you probably didn't like it in Jan or Feb either. Which is what leads me to think that a number of people felt let down by that ppv - whether because of the Christian anticlimax, the botch at the end of the show or a card that was gimmick heavy (or combination of these). I'm a fan of AEW but would put this ppv in the bottom 2/3 they've done for those reasons. 

Idk I may well be wrong, I just don't see the ratings trend aligning with an obvious drop in show quality.


----------



## RapShepard

Pentagon Senior said:


> There's no doubt numbers have seen a worrying trend recently but unless I'm misremembering this happened ever since Revolution...do you think the quality of the show has dropped since then?
> 
> To me, love it or hate it, the quality of episodes has been similar/consistent since the turn of the year. If you don't like it now you probably didn't like it in Jan or Feb either. Which is what leads me to think that a number of people felt let down by that ppv - whether because of the Christian anticlimax, the botch at the end of the show or a card that was gimmick heavy (or combination of these). I'm a fan of AEW but would put this ppv in the bottom 2/3 they've done for those reasons.
> 
> Idk I may well be wrong, I just don't see the ratings trend aligning with an obvious drop in show quality.


I didn't think it would, but I think the end of Revolution and the fallout afterwards hurt them. I do agree the shows are consistent in what they offer, but I think the shows are just solid and I don't mean that as a negative. Like I can't think of many times 10pm comes and I feel like I've wasted my night watching Dynamite. On the flip I can't think of any episodes of Dynamite that made me think "this is a show that would bring in old fans and create new ones". But I hold that opinion for the WWE weekly shows and Impact when I'm periodically checking it out as well. Lucha Underground was the last weekly show I felt that might have had that chance, but we see how that went lol.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

RapShepard said:


> I didn't think it would, but I think the end of Revolution and the fallout afterwards hurt them. I do agree the shows are consistent in what they offer, but I think the shows are just solid and I don't mean that as a negative. Like I can't think of many times 10pm comes and I feel like I've wasted my night watching Dynamite. On the flip I can't think of any episodes of Dynamite that made me think "this is a show that would bring in old fans and create new ones". But I hold that opinion for the WWE weekly shows and Impact when I'm periodically checking it out as well. Lucha Underground was the last weekly show I felt that might have had that chance, but we see how that went lol.


Man, I loved Lucha Underground. In all honesty I preferred it as a product to most other wrestling I've watched. Possibly second after the Attitude Era stuff (AEW third). But my tastes are often niche rather than mainstream so it makes sense they went bust lol. 

Yeah I think Revolution must at least be one factor - it seems like the floating element of the viewership (over 750k) just tuned out since then. I'm not sure what the answer is and to be honest I've been enjoying it consistently in 2021 so for selfish reasons I hope they don't make wholesale changes. 

I think they could potentially 

do a better job of showcasing more popular stars over less popular ones at times
do more storyline development throughout the episodes
rely less on the brawls and mix it up more

Though I'm not sure those changes would make much of a difference to ratings honestly 🤔 it'll be interesting to see post NXT stats - I expect a bump but not necessarily a major one.


----------



## RapShepard

Pentagon Senior said:


> Man, I loved Lucha Underground. In all honesty I preferred it as a product to most other wrestling I've watched. Possibly second after the Attitude Era stuff (AEW third). But my tastes are often niche rather than mainstream so it makes sense they went bust lol.
> 
> Yeah I think Revolution must at least be one factor - it seems like the floating element of the viewership (over 750k) just tuned out since then. I'm not sure what the answer is and to be honest I've been enjoying it consistently in 2021 so for selfish reasons I hope they don't make wholesale changes.
> 
> I think they could potentially
> 
> do a better job of showcasing more popular stars over less popular ones at times
> do more storyline development throughout the episodes
> rely less on the brawls and mix it up more
> 
> Though I'm not sure those changes would make much of a difference to ratings honestly [emoji848] it'll be interesting to see post NXT stats - I expect a bump but not necessarily a major one.


Changes won't show up overnight but I think more consistent weekly storytelling and consistently having their top stars on doing something meaningful will help them out a lot long-term. But really they just need that killer must see storyline and what that is who knows


----------



## Klitschko

Kind of late, but damn 700k? Kenny proving he's not a draw another week.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Another thing that is small but will have an impact is to focus more on the ppv builds/promotion.

Set Miro's ppv match this coming week against Rey Fenix, book a tag match for next week mixing Miro/Fenix with Darby/Hardy, book a Miro vs Penta match another week, do a dysfunctional tag match another week with Miro tagging with Fenix, and so on. Star vs star. Every week it develops. Every week they are part of the show.


----------



## DammitChrist

Pentagon Senior said:


> There's no doubt numbers have seen a worrying trend recently but unless I'm misremembering this happened ever since Revolution...do you think the quality of the show has dropped since then?
> 
> To me, love it or hate it, the quality of episodes has been similar/consistent since the turn of the year. If you don't like it now you probably didn't like it in Jan or Feb either. Which is what leads me to think that a number of people felt let down by that ppv - whether because of the Christian anticlimax, the botch at the end of the show or a card that was gimmick heavy (or combination of these). I'm a fan of AEW but would put this ppv in the bottom 2/3 they've done for those reasons.
> 
> Idk I may well be wrong, I just don't see the ratings trend aligning with an obvious drop in show quality.


Yep, I think the Dynamite episodes have been really good post-AEW Revolution.

It's unfortunate, but it looks like some viewers were bummed out by the ending of AEW Revolution; which sucks because the botched explosion was out of their control since there's always that slight possibility that there could be a dud with the pyro.

HOPEFULLY, they eventually win back even more viewers with the last few weeks of consistently good programming with the recent Dynamite episodes. They deserve at least 900 K viewers (from my perspective).

Edit:

For the record, I do agree with you about them (hopefully) not making any dramatic changes to the shows since I've just been enjoying the episodes too much for that to just end. They can change a few nuances for future improvement, but I'm hoping that their consistently good quality doesn't stop in their attempts to draw in more casuals.


----------



## IronMan8

From my POV, they need to get above a million within the next year or so to convince me they’re important and going to last long-term.

Really, all this squabbling over 100,000 fans each week is pointless.

They need to get over a million viewers, anything less will always make them feel like a small company operating at the whim of Tony Kahn.


----------



## ProjectGargano

3venflow said:


> Like him or not, Cassidy has his place in AEW as a novelty and it'd be silly to axe him. He is a draw to some degree, much like Darby. The main event on Wednesday pulled back 100,000 viewers after plummeting to the low 600k region.
> 
> He is also responsible for some of AEW's most watched moments on YouTube.
> 
> View attachment 99625
> 
> 
> It looks like Moxley and Cassidy are two of the AEW talents who draw a lot of interest.
> 
> You don't just discard someone like this, even if you don't personally enjoy what he does. He has value to the company.
> 
> Cassidy's squash win over Luther in February currently sits on 966,000 YT views. Only Sting attacking Team Taz, Shaq getting put through a table, MJF forming The Pinnacle and the Elevation debut show have more views in the month and a half since.


I think AEW should make a program between them for the TNT title, with Darby going over OC. They would get a huge draw from it.


----------



## kingfrass44

DestinationUnknown said:


> You're absolutely right DammitChrist. I don't understand why this website hates AEW so much, the shows are damn near perfect. I wouldn't change anything, except maybe swapping Omega for Cody as face of the company. He's just better overall and worked for WWE.


You are wrong


----------



## Wrestlephrenia

DammitChrist said:


> For the record, I do agree with you about them (hopefully) not making any dramatic changes to the shows since I've just been enjoying the episodes too much for that to just end. They can change a few nuances for future improvement, but I'm hoping that their consistently good quality doesn't stop in their attempts to draw in more casuals.


This logic is neither sound or rational. By what objective means are the casuals the enemy?

Do you hold some authority and seniority over these casuals?

In fact what makes them casual? If AEW gains new viewers that would watch every week, surely that isn’t a casual nor occasional viewer, that’s an active enthusiast, a new customer.

In your rather void excursive merry chase you offer no such objectively concrete standing or evidence,

By what lucid deducible method could your odious yet farcical mania stand?

If AEW does not get 1 million viewers from here on out... your position/stance and it’s validity, integrity and potency overall is obliterated and eradicated irreparably on this forum.

Would you like to rationally and soundly revise your stance and wage that AEW doesn’t amass over 1 million viewers sans NXT?

In effort to spare yourself of the embarrassment in case of the quandary.


----------



## DammitChrist

Wrestlephrenia said:


> This logic is neither sound or rational. By what objective means are the casuals the enemy?
> 
> Do you hold some authority and seniority over these casuals?
> 
> In fact what makes them casual? If AEW gains new viewers that would watch every week, surely that isn’t a casual nor occasional viewer, that’s an active enthusiast, a new customer.
> 
> In your rather void excursive merry chase you offer no such objectively concrete standing or evidence,
> 
> By what lucid deducible method could your odious yet farcical mania stand?
> 
> If AEW does not get 1 million viewers from here on out... your position/stance and it’s validity, integrity and potency overall is obliterated and eradicated irreparably on this forum.
> 
> Would you like to rationally and soundly revise your stance and wage that AEW doesn’t amass over 1 million viewers sans NXT?
> 
> In effort to spare yourself of the embarrassment in case of the quandary.


Everything that is written here is officially irrelevant, and it did absolutely nothing to detract from my point.


----------



## Not Lying

Wrestlephrenia said:


> This logic is neither sound or rational. By what *objective* means are the casuals the enemy?


WWE has been trying to cater to casuals and they've been losing viewerships year on a year. How about that for objective measures.


----------



## One Shed

The Definition of Technician said:


> WWE has been trying to cater to casuals and they've been losing viewerships year on a year. How about that for objective measures.


I do not think WWE has been catering to casuals. They have been catering to children and one specific 75 year old.


----------



## Not Lying

Two Sheds said:


> I do not think WWE has been catering to casuals. They have been catering to children and one specific 75 year old.


well yes, but are you really telling me that Brock Lesnar being WWE champion for almost 4 years, bringing back old part-timers and giving them the belt (Goldberg), focusing on one talent (Roman) who *always* faces other part-timers in WM main events so no one on the roster looks equal to him, plus all the celebrity BS over the past 10 years isn't catering to casuals.
They know they have the hardcore in the bag with NXT, with RAW nd SD the aim is to always get as much as casuals as possible, they just suck at it, and it's driving away more hardcore fans.


----------



## One Shed

The Definition of Technician said:


> well yes, but are you really telling me that Brock Lesnar being WWE champion for almost 4 years, bringing back old part-timers and giving them the belt (Goldberg), focusing on one talent (Roman) who *always* faces other part-timers in WM main events so no one on the roster looks equal to him, plus all the celebrity BS over the past 10 years isn't catering to casuals.
> They know they have the hardcore in the bag with NXT, with RAW nd SD the aim is to always get as much as casuals as possible, they just suck at it, and it's driving away more hardcore fans.


Oh, yes. I agree that they THINK they are catering more to casuals now in the post Cena era. They just definitely suck at it.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Definition of Technician said:


> well yes, but are you really telling me that Brock Lesnar being WWE champion for almost 4 years, bringing back old part-timers and giving them the belt (Goldberg), focusing on one talent (Roman) who *always* faces other part-timers in WM main events so no one on the roster looks equal to him, plus all the celebrity BS over the past 10 years isn't catering to casuals.
> They know they have the hardcore in the bag with NXT, with RAW nd SD the aim is to always get as much as casuals as possible, they just suck at it, and it's driving away more hardcore fans.


You have the right idea! 

The goal is for them to continue appeasing the hardcore audience while they deliver good shows on a weekly basis (which Dynamite, Smackdown, plus NXT have mostly done a good job doing this), and then they can gradually make changes that could potentially attract casual fans. 

The casual fans will eventually arrive if they continue to deliver good wresting shows that get a positive buzz from the hardcore audience. AEW still has plenty of good will from the hardcore fans; but IF they lose that support from them, then it’s highly unlikely that they’ll attract casual fans. 

As of right now, AEW is fine. They just need to keep it up with their good streak of entertaining weekly shows, and hope that they see an increase with the ratings in May.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

DammitChrist said:


> As of right now, AEW is fine. They just need to keep it up with their good streak of entertaining weekly shows, and hope that they see an increase with the ratings in May.


Right on. If the next four shows are as good as the last four shows have been then the ratings around Double or Nothing will see a nice little boost before going back down again for the inevitable summer slump that wrestling across the board seems to go through.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting new results.


----------



## DammitChrist

Nah, the shows have been good lately. They should keep continuing what they're doing atm without making any sudden, major changes that could alienate their hardcore fans.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, the shows have been good lately. They should keep continuing what they're doing atm without making any sudden, major changes that could alienate their hardcore fans.


The shows have been schizophrenic as always. Some good to great things, and some awful things. The ratings have been declining this year and are down year over year. I argue that this is a large reason why that is happening. Schizophrenic shows are just going to turn off existing viewers and not attract new ones.


----------



## TD Stinger

As far as the quality of AEW's shows for the most part in 2021 I've enjoyed watching them.

In terms of what I think they could do better, and this is something I've brought up before, is to just slow down sometimes. And what I mean is that they will have an idea for a show and like that idea so much that they will repeat the same angle multiple times on the show.

Take this past week for example:
*A brawl with Cody's gang & QT's gang
*Another brawl with the IC & The Pinnacle
*Then another brawl between the Dark Order & Hardy Clan

This isn't even mentioning the street fight main event.

To use another example, look at the 2nd to last show before Revolution:

*Sting kidnaps Hook when Sting & Darby attack
*Jericho & MJF kidnap and attack Matt & Nick's dad
*Matt Hardy kidnaps #5 from the DO to then throw him off the stage through a table

And a lot of time it's just too much. I know that in their minds they are trying to give juice to all of these angles and I can appreciate that. But, when you see similar segments throughout one show you do become numb to them eventually. I think with AEW, I would just say that it's OK sometimes to just have a match and that's it. And if you want to do all of these wild angles, great. But just find a way to space them out more.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, the shows have been good lately. They should keep continuing what they're doing atm without making any sudden, major changes that could alienate their hardcore fans.


Exactly, these last four shows have been flat out amazing. They need to do that for about 2 years straight, it will pay off. Can't go back to the slow paced DUDs.


----------



## 3venflow

Brandon Thurston has posted a comparison of the ratings and quarter hours for AEW (and NXT) going back to the start.

It's very interesting and a better way to look at ratings than week to week. Right now, ratings are obviously down but are exceeding Q2 from last year, when the pandemic was setting in.

The key demo (18-49) remains quite consistent with a 0.30 median for Q1 of this year.

Females are an issue as has been widely discussed and Q1 2021 was AEW's worst for females in the 18-49 category.

So far the best quarter for total viewership has been Q1 2020 (may surprise some given the 1m+ ratings in the first few weeks). The best quarter for key demo has been Q4 2019. The worst quarter for total viewership has been Q2 2020. The worst quarter for key demo has been Q2 2020.

If there isn't an upswing soon, you'd think Q2 2021 could compare to Q2 2020.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Get ready for another ratings drop this week. They are putting Dark wrestlers on tv again, but no Christian, Miro, Pac, Paul Wight or Sting.

Edit: They just announced that Tyson will make another random appearance tomorrow. It might pop the rating again, but those viewers are going to see a terrible show all around Tyson's appearance and they won't tune back in the week after. Tyson doesn't change this weak card.


----------



## NathanMayberry

I was told that AEW doesn't counter program or hot shot... This is obviously completely normal, long term booking. He disappears off TV for 11 months, is never mentioned and just appears after only being announced on Social media before.


----------



## 3venflow

Dave Meltzer on how AEW can improve. A lot of good points and for those who thinks Tony Khan listens to what he says, well, it seems he'd be doing a fair bit differently. Tbh, after listening to this, I wish TK _would_ listen to him. He doesn't like the amount of people on Dynamite either, for example.


----------



## The Wood

Two Sheds said:


> It is obviously perfectly fine for you to think that. But it should be clear that more and more people disagree with that and are voting with their remote controls.
> 
> Now for me, I do not equate popularity with quality as there have been a ton of books, movies, television shows, etc that I have loved that were never mainstream or popular and vice versa. I HATED Avatar yet it was the movie that made the most money (not adjusting for inflation) up until 2019. The top 10/20 list of TV shows by viewers generally include all kinds of "reality" and contest shows that I think are some of the dumbest things humans have ever put to film. But a lot of people watch them.
> 
> So it does not *really *matter to me if 100,000 people or 15 million people watch Dynamite. With any program I enjoy, as long as it does well enough to stay in existence (and importantly also does not compromise its quality to try and desperately stay on the air) I am happy. It just so happens that wrestling viewership generally does parallel what I like. Wrestling has catered mostly to children and immature people for almost 15 years now, has seen a nose dive in ratings as a result, and a lot of us are tired of it. So when I see an episode that is bookended by Christian and Kazarian in a great match and then three man babies and a monster in a garbage, intelligence insulting middle school gym indy fest, there is nothing else to call it except schizophrenic. That is why some of us get so annoyed. We SEE the potential and some great execution, and then the geek squad comes out.
> 
> Now to go back to my point about ratings not really mattering to me. IF the ratings were going way UP as a result of the garbage crap, then I would laugh and just stop watching as clearly like a lot of shows it is just not for me, but that a lot of people want to see trash. But that is not what is happening. The schizophrenic booking by a guy with clear ADHD is NOT producing increasing ratings so I see hope and a reason to want to fight against what I believe IS dragging down the show. Putting geeks like Trashidy, Kip, and Chuckle in a main event (let alone any event) is driving people away and that makes me happy because that means there is still a chance that a product I will enjoy will emerge from all this.


Post. Of. The. Fucking. Year.



3venflow said:


> Like him or not, Cassidy has his place in AEW as a novelty and it'd be silly to axe him. He is a draw to some degree, much like Darby. The main event on Wednesday pulled back 100,000 viewers after plummeting to the low 600k region.
> 
> He is also responsible for some of AEW's most watched moments on YouTube.
> 
> View attachment 99625
> 
> 
> It looks like Moxley and Cassidy are two of the AEW talents who draw a lot of interest.
> 
> You don't just discard someone like this, even if you don't personally enjoy what he does. He has value to the company.
> 
> Cassidy's squash win over Luther in February currently sits on 966,000 YT views. Only Sting attacking Team Taz, Shaq getting put through a table, MJF forming The Pinnacle and the Elevation debut show have more views in the month and a half since.


Cassidy doesn’t draw, lol. People watching a silly segment on YouTube and going “Wtf is this shit?” isn’t converting anyone to being a paying consumer.

I think the assumption that getting eyeballs means people like what they’re seeing needs to be seriously questioned



Mister Sinister said:


> Get ready for another ratings drop this week. They are putting Dark wrestlers on tv again, but no Christian, Miro, Pac, Paul Wight or Sting.
> 
> Edit: They just announced that Tyson will make another random appearance tomorrow. It might pop the rating again, but those viewers are going to see a terrible show all around Tyson's appearance and they won't tune back in the week after. Tyson doesn't change this weak card.


And this kind of follows my point there. Will Tyson bring some sort of attention their way? Yes. Absolutely. But what does him falling asleep on their program achieve? Even if they used him at his best, you’ll be getting a few hundred thousand people, maybe, to look at the show and think “oh man, I hate this.” That ISN’T good.

Sometimes it is better to slip in private than it is at your wedding. When the attention is on you, then you need to deliver. You have to be noticed AND good. It isn’t enough to just get noticed. You make a bad impression and it actually becomes HARDER to sell to those customers later.


----------



## thorn123

Tyson may bring in some viewers, but if he does I don’t think AEW will hold them.

I have said it many times, short of the next Austin or Hogan, AEW won’t have mass appeal amongst the current general decline of wrestling fandom.


----------



## 3venflow

The Wood said:


> Cassidy doesn’t draw, lol. People watching a silly segment on YouTube and going “Wtf is this shit?” isn’t converting anyone to being a paying consumer.


No one is a major draw individually anymore, but Cassidy is good at retaining and pulling back viewers, much like Darby Allin is. For a brand that struggles with viewer retention, talents like this are valuable.

Within the context of AEW, Moxley, Darby, Cassidy, Kenny are among the better audience pullers. Obviously there are exceptions with all of them, but over time these guys are consistent. The Arcade Anarchy match, the wedding, Cassidy vs. Jericho, all bumped ratings, in some cases to a significant extent (ie. Arcade Anarchy pulled back 106,000 viewers after the women's segment dropped to 611k). When AEW was unopposed last year, Cassidy vs. Angelico drew over 1m viewers in a fairly random match, up from the opening quarter hour.

And no, you can't dismiss YouTube, especially when someone's appeal on there goes beyond a tiny sample size and is consistent over a number of years. If it was all about the "WTF is this shit?", then why is an innocuously titled Cassidy vs. Luther video pushing 1m views, more than anything in the past month and a half outside of a few MAJOR moments. Cassidy has a following, like it or not.

I say this to others, but you can dislike something or someone while acknowledging their value. Some like yourself are so far to one extreme that you'll do anything rationalise your opinions as facts.


----------



## DammitChrist

3venflow said:


> No one is a major draw individually anymore, but Cassidy is good at retaining and pulling back viewers, much like Darby Allin is. For a brand that struggles with viewer retention, talents like this are valuable.
> 
> Within the context of AEW, Moxley, Darby, Cassidy, Kenny are among the better audience pullers. Obviously there are exceptions with all of them, but over time these guys are consistent. The Arcade Anarchy match, the wedding, Cassidy vs. Jericho, all bumped ratings, in some cases to a significant extent (ie. Arcade Anarchy pulled back 106,000 viewers after the women's segment dropped to 611k). When AEW was unopposed last year, Cassidy vs. Angelico drew over 1m viewers in a fairly random match, up from the opening quarter hour.
> 
> And no, you can't dismiss YouTube, especially when someone's appeal on there goes beyond a tiny sample size and is consistent over a number of years. If it was all about the "WTF is this shit?", then why is an innocuously titled Cassidy vs. Luther video pushing 1m views, more than anything in the past month and a half outside of a few MAJOR moments. Cassidy has a following, like it or not.
> 
> I say this to others, but you can dislike something or someone while acknowledging their value. Some like yourself are so far to one extreme that you'll do anything rationalise your opinions as facts.


I’d honestly argue that the claim for this comment being the ‘post of the year’ is much more accurate regarding the ratings and Orange Cassidy helping out with the viewership.


----------



## 3venflow

Shahid Khan's worth has gone up from $7.8bn to $8bn in the past year, making him the 308th richest man in the world. Tony should ask his dad for some pocket money to spruce up production or something. 

On the same list, Vince is worth $2.1bn, up from $1.8bn. The rich continue to get richer despite the pandemic.





__





Loading…






www.forbes.com


----------



## TD Stinger

One thing that should help AEW (besides Tyson) tonight is that NXT will also be on Peacock (US) and the Network (everywhere else) without commercial breaks. So I'm assuming a decent # of people will choose to watch it there provided there's no technical problems.


----------



## The Wood

3venflow said:


> No one is a major draw individually anymore, but Cassidy is good at retaining and pulling back viewers, much like Darby Allin is. For a brand that struggles with viewer retention, talents like this are valuable.
> 
> Within the context of AEW, Moxley, Darby, Cassidy, Kenny are among the better audience pullers. Obviously there are exceptions with all of them, but over time these guys are consistent. The Arcade Anarchy match, the wedding, Cassidy vs. Jericho, all bumped ratings, in some cases to a significant extent (ie. Arcade Anarchy pulled back 106,000 viewers after the women's segment dropped to 611k). When AEW was unopposed last year, Cassidy vs. Angelico drew over 1m viewers in a fairly random match, up from the opening quarter hour.
> 
> And no, you can't dismiss YouTube, especially when someone's appeal on there goes beyond a tiny sample size and is consistent over a number of years. If it was all about the "WTF is this shit?", then why is an innocuously titled Cassidy vs. Luther video pushing 1m views, more than anything in the past month and a half outside of a few MAJOR moments. Cassidy has a following, like it or not.
> 
> I say this to others, but you can dislike something or someone while acknowledging their value. Some like yourself are so far to one extreme that you'll do anything rationalise your opinions as facts.


No one drawing is the problem, not an excuse. They pull back a certain number of fans who are reflective of no one drawing. You can get back 100k nerds if you want, but that is the issue. You’re leaving a much larger portion of the audience out in the cold. You’re making major sacrifices for minor gains. And to count that as a win is just silly.

It reminds me of The Simpsons joke where Lenny offers to pay Homer five bucks or whatever to look at his angel. That gives Homer an idea: $1 entry.

I’m not discounting YouTube. I’m discounting that YouTube means what a lot of people interpret it to mean. And I’m quizzical of how reliable its correlative relationship is to other more traditional metrics. The Great Khali is a giant YouTube star. That must mean he has inherent value as a top US draw, right?


----------



## The Wood

TD Stinger said:


> One thing that should help AEW (besides Tyson) tonight is that NXT will also be on Peacock (US) and the Network (everywhere else) without commercial breaks. So I'm assuming a decent # of people will choose to watch it there provided there's no technical problems.


And people still think ratings matter the way they used to. If the goal was to get the biggest number of live viewers on USA absolutely possible, WWE and NBC Universal would not being a multi-platform approach.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

3venflow said:


> Shahid Khan's worth has gone up from $7.8bn to $8bn in the past year, making him the 308th richest man in the world. Tony should ask his dad for some pocket money to spruce up production or something.
> 
> On the same list, Vince is worth $2.1bn, up from $1.8bn. The rich continue to get richer despite the pandemic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com


Their production is, along with MJF, the reason I like it so much. Its just so easy on the eyes and I love the edgy look to it, the darkness. I really hope they don't change that and turn it into another Best Buy TV section style set. Just get rid of the tunnels and move on!


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Two Sheds said:


> It is obviously perfectly fine for you to think that. But it should be clear that more and more people disagree with that and are voting with their remote controls.
> 
> Now for me, I do not equate popularity with quality as there have been a ton of books, movies, television shows, etc that I have loved that were never mainstream or popular and vice versa. I HATED Avatar yet it was the movie that made the most money (not adjusting for inflation) up until 2019. The top 10/20 list of TV shows by viewers generally include all kinds of "reality" and contest shows that I think are some of the dumbest things humans have ever put to film. But a lot of people watch them.
> 
> So it does not *really *matter to me if 100,000 people or 15 million people watch Dynamite. With any program I enjoy, as long as it does well enough to stay in existence (and importantly also does not compromise its quality to try and desperately stay on the air) I am happy. It just so happens that wrestling viewership generally does parallel what I like. Wrestling has catered mostly to children and immature people for almost 15 years now, has seen a nose dive in ratings as a result, and a lot of us are tired of it. So when I see an episode that is bookended by Christian and Kazarian in a great match and then three man babies and a monster in a garbage, intelligence insulting middle school gym indy fest, there is nothing else to call it except schizophrenic. That is why some of us get so annoyed. We SEE the potential and some great execution, and then the geek squad comes out.
> 
> Now to go back to my point about ratings not really mattering to me. IF the ratings were going way UP as a result of the garbage crap, then I would laugh and just stop watching as clearly like a lot of shows it is just not for me, but that a lot of people want to see trash. But that is not what is happening. The schizophrenic booking by a guy with clear ADHD is NOT producing increasing ratings so I see hope and a reason to want to fight against what I believe IS dragging down the show. Putting geeks like Trashidy, Kip, and Chuckle in a main event (let alone any event) is driving people away and that makes me happy because that means there is still a chance that a product I will enjoy will emerge from all this.


You're so tired of the supposed direction of wrestling but won't do shit about it...


----------



## 3venflow

A E Dub back on the road in August.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1380222966756163584


----------



## Garty

3venflow said:


> A E Dub back on the road in August.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1380222966756163584


It can't come fast enough, but things are always changing...


----------



## Joe Gill

3venflow said:


> No one is a major draw individually anymore, but Cassidy is good at retaining and pulling back viewers, much like Darby Allin is. For a brand that struggles with viewer retention, talents like this are valuable.
> 
> Within the context of AEW, Moxley, Darby, Cassidy, Kenny are among the better audience pullers. Obviously there are exceptions with all of them, but over time these guys are consistent. The Arcade Anarchy match, the wedding, Cassidy vs. Jericho, all bumped ratings, in some cases to a significant extent (ie. Arcade Anarchy pulled back 106,000 viewers after the women's segment dropped to 611k). When AEW was unopposed last year, Cassidy vs. Angelico drew over 1m viewers in a fairly random match, up from the opening quarter hour.
> 
> And no, you can't dismiss YouTube, especially when someone's appeal on there goes beyond a tiny sample size and is consistent over a number of years. If it was all about the "WTF is this shit?", then why is an innocuously titled Cassidy vs. Luther video pushing 1m views, more than anything in the past month and a half outside of a few MAJOR moments. Cassidy has a following, like it or not.
> 
> I say this to others, but you can dislike something or someone while acknowledging their value. Some like yourself are so far to one extreme that you'll do anything rationalise your opinions as facts.


there is a huge difference between Cassidy and Darby. Cassidy is a novelty act... when he first appeared he went viral because he was unique....but now that everyone has seen his act 100 times its stale. His character has barely evolved and no longer has a big impact. He only has a bit of a cult following left but is no longer viral. Check AEWs youtube channel... he has the most viewed videoes on the channel... some of them 10+ million. But they are all from 2019 and a few from early 2020. His style of wrestling also mocks the industry and forces legit talent to lower themselves to his level just to make a match work... like when Bodie Lee destroyed Cody and looked like a monster... then 2 weeks later he is struggling to beat Cassidy in a match...which took away his momentum as a monster heel. Now that he is no longer viral OC is more a liability than an asset since he destroys the credibility of the other wrestlers he competes against. Ask yourself this... which wrestler was better off from working a storyline with OC? no one. They all ended up worse and less credible. Darby on the other hand continues to evolve and keeps getting better with time and experience. 

Only a mark like TK thinks Cassidy is an asset. He just looks at short term t shirt sales and youtube views... while ignoring the damage OC does to the credibility of the other talent he works with.


----------



## One Shed

The Raw Smackdown said:


> You're so tired of the supposed direction of wrestling but won't do shit about it...


How about you actually address the arguments/points made instead of making lazy, ad hominem attacks?

More and more people are seeing through a lot of the amateurish stuff these rookies are doing and some of you seem to be taking that personally. Very weird.


----------



## 3venflow

Joe Gill said:


> there is a huge difference between Cassidy and Darby. Cassidy is a novelty act...


And I agree that Cassidy is a novelty act. And novelty acts have a place in wrestling and have done all throughout history. Since AEW is presenting itself as a buffet, not super-serious or super-light hearted, Cassidy is not really a contradiction to any stated direction the company has.

I didn't want Cassidy up the card when he was feuding with Jericho, but have less of an issue with him in his reduced role now. Since beating Jericho, he's jobbed to Brodie, Cody and MJF in singles matches and not pinned anyone near the top of the card. But still gets big pops.



> when he first appeared he went viral because he was unique....but now that everyone has seen his act 100 times its stale. His character has barely evolved and no longer has a big impact. He only has a bit of a cult following left but is no longer viral. Check AEWs youtube channel... he has the most viewed videoes on the channel... some of them 10+ million. But they are all from 2019 and a few from early 2020.


I repeat. Well, let me put it this way.

AEW's most viewed new videos in the past two months:

1. Paul Wight debuts - 1.5m
2. Shaq gets knocked out by Cody Rhodes - 1.4m
3. MJF leaves the Inner Circle and creates the Pinnacle - 1.3m
4. Christian Cage and Kenny Omega go face to face - 1.2m
5. Sting is back and attacks Brian Cage and Ricky Starks - 1.2m
6. AEW Dark Elevation debut show - 1.1m
*7. Orange Cassidy returns to action against Luther - 990k*
8. Kenny Omega and Young Bucks confrontation - 888k
9. AEW Dark Elevation episode three - 801k

What stands out as an anomaly there? And why? Why did 990,000 people view Orange Cassidy facing a jobber in Luther? No, he's not getting 10m views anymore, but nothing is. Nothing has passed 1.5m yet this year, although obviously views increase over time.



> His style of wrestling also mocks the industry and forces legit talent to lower themselves to his level just to make a match work... like when Bodie Lee destroyed Cody and looked like a monster... then 2 weeks later he is struggling to beat Cassidy in a match...which took away his momentum as a monster heel.


This is all subjective and is a problem of mine with this board. People try to present their own opinions as a certified fact and very few people can be like, "I don't like this guy, but recognize he does this or that." It's always, "I don't like this guy and thus he's a blight on AEW."

I mean personally, I wouldn't have hired OC when AEW formed if I was in charge. But it doesn't mean I can't acknowledge the value he brings now.

Brodie was never going to go on a run of 3 minute wins after Cody, which had the storyline behind it of Cody wearing himself out defending the title every week. It's just not AEW's ethos to run blink-and-you'll-miss-them title matches and that was an exception to the rule to make an impact.

In the match you mentioned, he dominated OC for most of the match before OC had a comeback flurry and then lost. This was also Cassidy's first big match after beating Jericho on the PPV so he had momentum and 'deserved' a title shot... which he lost.

I provided a bunch of example of TV ratings where Cassidy either improved viewership or brought back fans. I'm not here claiming he's some mega-draw, but I am claiming that he's helped AEW retain, reclaim and in some instance gain viewers during many shows.

If you want to talk about ratings killers, look more towards the Dark Order, QT Marshall, various women. From the data I have looked at, while he is no mega-draw, Cassidy has a fine track record with ratings and is rarely responsible for major drops like some are.

On 9/9/20, Cassidy faced Angelico in a singles match and it pushed the rating over 1 million in Q2 and Q3.

Last week, the women/Dark Order vs. MHO decimated the ratings, taking them down to 611,000. The Arcade Anarchy match featuring Cassidy recovered over 100,000 fans to bring the rating back over 700,000 for the first time since Q2.

Last June in the TNT title number one contendership battle royale, the ratings peaked for the whole show when Cassidy entered at over 1m and 500,000 in the key demographic.

Obviously, he is the sort of marmite character who could cause some, like yourself, to turn the channel. But on the evidence we have, he is not responsible for that in the most part and is one of their more consistent guys.

Also, can you please point me to the standard-setters for credibility in a product. ie. those who haven't employed comedic or light-hearted characters/storylines and focused on them to some degree. As I'm struggling to think of many, including one of the most serious products I ever saw, All Japan in the 1990s.


----------



## TD Stinger

Like I said yesterday I'm interested to see how things shake out.

Takeover was obviously a big show for NXT last night but again, it was available on Peacock at the same time. So maybe they don't do some big rating. And if that's the case, how does that affect AEW. Although watch last night's subpar show of course do their best viewership, when every other episode was better than the one last night.


----------



## 3venflow

^^ Even if they watched on Peacock, aren't they still the same audience just shared between USA-NXT and Peacock-NXT, so affecting AEW the same way?

Ratings should drop any time now. Q1, Q7 and Q8 are what I'm interested in this week for Dynamite. Q1 is usually strong but I'm not sure how Hangman vs. Caster will fare against Takeover. And how many did the main event pull back after the women/DO vs. MHO probably tanked the Q7 ratings again.


----------



## Mr316

AEW fans already finding excuses for their favorite show. Cute.


----------



## The Wood

The Raw Smackdown said:


> You're so tired of the supposed direction of wrestling but won't do shit about it...


What the fuck is this? This is a forum. Either discuss the points or get off. It’s not up to Two Sheds to do an AEW run-in and give a bunch of no-marks shoot Two Shed Stunners to try and change wrestling history.



3venflow said:


> And I agree that Cassidy is a novelty act. And novelty acts have a place in wrestling and have done all throughout history. Since AEW is presenting itself as a buffet, not super-serious or super-light hearted, Cassidy is not really a contradiction to any stated direction the company has.
> 
> I didn't want Cassidy up the card when he was feuding with Jericho, but have less of an issue with him in his reduced role now. Since beating Jericho, he's jobbed to Brodie, Cody and MJF in singles matches and not pinned anyone near the top of the card. But still gets big pops.
> 
> 
> 
> I repeat. Well, let me put it this way.
> 
> AEW's most viewed new videos in the past two months:
> 
> 1. Paul Wight debuts - 1.5m
> 2. Shaq gets knocked out by Cody Rhodes - 1.4m
> 3. MJF leaves the Inner Circle and creates the Pinnacle - 1.3m
> 4. Christian Cage and Kenny Omega go face to face - 1.2m
> 5. Sting is back and attacks Brian Cage and Ricky Starks - 1.2m
> 6. AEW Dark Elevation debut show - 1.1m
> *7. Orange Cassidy returns to action against Luther - 990k*
> 8. Kenny Omega and Young Bucks confrontation - 888k
> 9. AEW Dark Elevation episode three - 801k
> 
> What stands out as an anomaly there? And why? Why did 990,000 people view Orange Cassidy facing a jobber in Luther? No, he's not getting 10m views anymore, but nothing is. Nothing has passed 1.5m yet this year, although obviously views increase over time.
> 
> 
> 
> This is all subjective and is a problem of mine with this board. People try to present their own opinions as a certified fact and very few people can be like, "I don't like this guy, but recognize he does this or that." It's always, "I don't like this guy and thus he's a blight on AEW."
> 
> I mean personally, I wouldn't have hired OC when AEW formed if I was in charge. But it doesn't mean I can't acknowledge the value he brings now.
> 
> Brodie was never going to go on a run of 3 minute wins after Cody, which had the storyline behind it of Cody wearing himself out defending the title every week. It's just not AEW's ethos to run blink-and-you'll-miss-them title matches and that was an exception to the rule to make an impact.
> 
> In the match you mentioned, he dominated OC for most of the match before OC had a comeback flurry and then lost. This was also Cassidy's first big match after beating Jericho on the PPV so he had momentum and 'deserved' a title shot... which he lost.
> 
> I provided a bunch of example of TV ratings where Cassidy either improved viewership or brought back fans. I'm not here claiming he's some mega-draw, but I am claiming that he's helped AEW retain, reclaim and in some instance gain viewers during many shows.
> 
> If you want to talk about ratings killers, look more towards the Dark Order, QT Marshall, various women. From the data I have looked at, while he is no mega-draw, Cassidy has a fine track record with ratings and is rarely responsible for major drops like some are.
> 
> On 9/9/20, Cassidy faced Angelico in a singles match and it pushed the rating over 1 million in Q2 and Q3.
> 
> Last week, the women/Dark Order vs. MHO decimated the ratings, taking them down to 611,000. The Arcade Anarchy match featuring Cassidy recovered over 100,000 fans to bring the rating back over 700,000 for the first time since Q2.
> 
> Last June in the TNT title number one contendership battle royale, the ratings peaked for the whole show when Cassidy entered at over 1m and 500,000 in the key demographic.
> 
> Obviously, he is the sort of marmite character who could cause some, like yourself, to turn the channel. But on the evidence we have, he is not responsible for that in the most part and is one of their more consistent guys.
> 
> Also, can you please point be to the standard-setters for credibility in a product. ie. those who haven't employed comedic or light-hearted characters and focused on them for some degree. As I'm struggling to think of many, including one of the most serious products I ever saw, All Japan in the 1990s.


Okay, I’m going to skim-read this and respond to the most obvious and glaring points.

Yes, some novelty acts deserve a place in wrestling. Not ALL novelty acts do. This is faulty logic. They do not mean the same thing. And not all novelty acts deserve spots in the main event (hell, it’s hard to think of one that ever has).

7th place? That’s...not that impressive, man. And it doesn’t mean that the people watching it LIKED it. What are the chances people clicked because someone has said “Look at how shit this Luther guy is?” Or that both of them are? Again, it’s faulty logic to assume that the response to these figures are inherently positive. People laugh at shit on YouTube all the time. Hell, that’s ALL a lot of my friends and I share with each other...funny shit that makes us go “Oh Lordy — who could actually think that was a good idea?”

Why couldn’t Brodie Lee squash people? That would have been a smart way to bring him in.

You will still not hear the point, even though you accuse others of not recognising yours, that a novelty act might get a higher rating than a serious one, because the serious one might only be appealing to genuine fans of the product, whereas the novelty attracts people who don’t give a shit and hate the rest of the show + the people already there for the serious stuff.

If a church advertised free lap dances, they might get way more clientele than usual. But they aren’t all going to be religious. Try getting them to donate to the collection next Sunday.

Also, it’s not like these ratings are massive. He might get in 990k for a segment, or whatever the fuck, but there are way more people that have zero interest in seeing that...or the rest of the product it is attached to. 990k is not an impressive number for wrestling.

If he ever did spike the ratings (Seriously, this minutia is so unimpressive to me that I’ve never even engaged with the data or the argument that it’s segment placement), where do those people go for the next segment? Why don’t they continue to watch? Why aren’t they AEW fans?


----------



## 3venflow

The final Wednesday Night War ratings:

NXT Takeover: 768,000 (0.22 key demo)

AEW Dynamite: 688,000 (0.28 key demo)

Final WNW count - AEW: 63, NXT: 10, Tie: 2


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

She’s over

key demo wins again 


somebody close this thread plzzz

also... took them less than 83 weeks


----------



## Mr316

688k ...what a sad number for a show on which millions and millions of dollars have been spent.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Is that the real number? Im not finding it anywhere.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1380252027792490496

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

Here's the full top 50. ONE MMA, which debuted after Dynamite, didn't break it.

Challenge at the top to no surprise. I think it was the season finale? Or penultimate episode. If so, AEW has no NXT or Challenge against them next week with a big card.


----------



## Kentucky34

688k?

So that will be 800k next week. 

Probably around 500k by end of the year. 

Sad.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Thats a strong number for NXT when you consider it was on Peacock commercial free.


----------



## fabi1982

The Peacock numbers would be quite interesting.


----------



## MyronGainsBrah

HHH won the marathon eh?


----------



## RapShepard

I'm actually surprised NXT got more viewers


----------



## Mr316

They sign Sting. They litteraly have Sting. And they put him in a position where not a single person cares.


----------



## holy

688K for an episode with Mike Tyson advertised? Yikes.


----------



## La Parka

How many people does AEW need to run off before they make some changes?

That PPV ran a ton of people off.


----------



## The Wood

I knew I should have gone with 685k in the predictions thread (like every second person used to). Obviously not a surprising number.

I don’t know why people are acting like ratings analysis and other business metrics are suddenly going to disappear because they aren’t head-to-head. I’m interested to see who can grow and sustain an audience.

Also, not a surprise that the AEW viewers didn’t stick around for ONE MMA. Why would the people who watch AEW be interested in sports-based content at this point. TNT is going to have to try a bit harder to put together a sports block.

AEW might actually turn some insiders’ eyes as a bad lead-in.


----------



## Alright_Mate

To be expected.

Next week is the big one when they go unopposed, if they can’t get above 800k for that, then they really do have problems.


----------



## Joe Gill

688,000.... they will get a bump with no more direct competition starting next week... but its only a matter of time before ratings are below 600k and in the 500k range. AEW is really starting to pay the price for all the excessive brawls/kidnappings/over hyped debuts/15 minute matches/ kicking out of finishers and all the other crap they have been hot shotting from day 1. Everyone is now desensitized to just about everything they do... combined with too many storylines... the average viewers is simply tuning out and just doesnt care. Its only going to get worse. AEW better pray for a big spike in ratigs next week from NXT change... if they dont AEW will be in the 500k range by this summer


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

holy said:


> 688K for an episode with Mike Tyson advertised? Yikes.


no stress, its still 5th on the night

have your ‘yikes’ back


----------



## rbl85

I'm surprised AEW didn't lose more viewers compared to last week, i predicted way (talking about the loss of viewers) more and i actually predicted them to lose in the demo.

Still top 5 in the ranking is a real surprise to me


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

MyronGainsBrah said:


> HHH won the marathon eh?


well, they’re still running next week and NXT isn’t there

so a participation trophy?


----------



## ProjectGargano

MyronGainsBrah said:


> HHH won the marathon eh?


With a Takeover? These AEW haters are so ridiculous.


----------



## RainmakerV2

ProjectGargano said:


> With a PPV? These AEW haters are so ridiculous.


Bro, NXTs top 5 guys (Gargano, O reilly, balor, kross, and cole) werent even on the show. Stop acting like it was some supercard that couldnt be missed. It was fine but the main show is tonight.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW winning the demo didn't surprise me. Neither rating (total / 18-49) did. They have younger fans, NXT have older fans. They finished 74-1 over NXT in the 18-49 demo.

AEW have outlasted NXT on Wednesday and now have a golden chance to regrow their audience. Hopefully they take it. Next week's card is a good start.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Joe Gill said:


> 688,000.... they will get a bump with no more direct competition starting next week... but its only a matter of time before ratings are below 600k and in the 500k range. AEW is really starting to pay the price for all the excessive brawls/kidnappings/over hyped debuts/15 minute matches/ kicking out of finishers and all the other crap they have been hot shotting from day 1. Everyone is now desensitized to just about everything they do... combined with too many storylines... the average viewers is simply tuning out and just doesnt care. Its only going to get worse. AEW better pray for a big spike in ratigs next week from NXT change... if they dont AEW will be in the 500k range by this summer


Yes, they would be out of business 6 months before their debut and they are still here.


----------



## El Hammerstone

ProjectGargano said:


> With a PPV? These AEW haters are so ridiculous.


Half of a PPV...the lesser half...from the company's minor league brand.


----------



## RapShepard

ProjectGargano said:


> With a Takeover? These AEW haters are so ridiculous.


Why is there always an excuse lol. How is it that AEW can do big special shows on Wednesday, but NXT doing it there's an excuse. And I say that as somebody surprised they got less viewers.


----------



## RainmakerV2

RapShepard said:


> Why is there always an excuse lol. How is it that AEW can do big special shows on Wednesday, but NXT doing it there's an excuse. And I say that as somebody surprised they got less viewers.


None of NXTs top 5 guys were even on the show lol. These dudes are just big mad they cant make dumb gifs on twitter about AEW winning.


----------



## La Parka

ProjectGargano said:


> With a Takeover? These AEW haters are so ridiculous.


A show with Sting, Moxley, Mike Tyson and Chris Jericho lost to the undercard of WWEs third brand.

That’s a fat L.


----------



## ProjectGargano

RainmakerV2 said:


> Bro, NXTs top 5 guys (Gargano, O reilly, balor, kross, and cole) werent even on the show. Stop acting like it was some supercard that couldnt be missed. It was fine but the main show is tonight.


A Takeover on Wrestlemania week is still a Takeover, and the card was still pretty good. Imagine if AEW had the ratings that NXT had since the beginning of the year....


----------



## holy

LifeInCattleClass said:


> no stress, its still 5th on the night
> 
> have your ‘yikes’ back


If you're just happy with AEW being 5th for the night rather than being a game-changing promotion that can help wrestling get back its lost popularity, then more power to you!


----------



## ProjectGargano

La Parka said:


> A show with Sting, Moxley, Mike Tyson and Chris Jericho lost to the undercard of WWEs third brand.
> 
> That’s a fat L.


No, they won, WWE third brand had to move on.


----------



## The Wood

NXT is going to win the marathon if it sees growth and holds onto it, while AEW can’t.

Of course AEW is going to see a boost next week (well, if it doesn’t, look out), but the real question will be how many of those people _come back_. This product isn’t something magical waiting to be discovered. Most people — most wrestling fans — *don’t like it.*


----------



## Mr316

Soon AEW will be at 500k and some fans will still find excuses. Truth is, they’re slowly but surely losing fans.


----------



## DaSlacker

No excuses from next week. Definitely no more excuses if they can start to get back on the road in a few months times. 

Wednesday night was always a poor night for wrestling. The Wednesday Night Wars has placed 1.4 million eyes on that 8pm-10pm slot. They need to and should be hitting 1 million regularly after things settle down. If they don't then they have nobody but themselves to blame.


----------



## RainmakerV2

ProjectGargano said:


> A Takeover on Wrestlemania week is still a Takeover, and the card was still pretty good. Imagine if AEW had the ratings that NXT had since the beginning of the year....



They had Tyson, the entire inner circle returning and the culmination of the bullet club reunion horseshit with Omega and Mox in the main event. Dont act like it was an elevation card. They got smoked.


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> Why is there always an excuse lol. How is it that AEW can do big special shows on Wednesday, but NXT doing it there's an excuse. And I say that as somebody surprised they got less viewers.


So they should do a special show just because NXT last wednesday show is the Mania takeover ?


----------



## Mister Sinister

They should be coming out of this week with a million viewers and going into next week with the expectation of 1.5 million given NXT is moving to Tues. They will be lucky to break 900k next week.

What person would look at this week's card and say, that's a draw. The Bullet Club and Penisickle are not draws outside of several thousand marks that eat up the indie hype on MJF and NJPW.


----------



## La Parka

Mr316 said:


> Soon AEW will be at 500k and some fans will still find excuses. Truth is, they’re slowly but surely losing fans.


“Fans are not in the house as much anymore, they’re out in bars and going to movies now that everything’s open!”


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> *They had Tyson*, the entire inner circle returning and the culmination of the bullet club reunion horseshit with Omega and Mox in the main event. Dont act like it was an elevation card. They got smoked.


What did Tyson for the ratings the last time he came ?
Nothing so some people should stop to find any excuses to explain a bad rating and other people should stop finding stupid thing to attack them on the ratings.


----------



## Dr. Middy

I predicted 680k in the other thread so I was pretty spot on then. 

The Takeover show was awesome, and some of the matches on the card were built up quite well, and they had been promoting this show hard for what feels like months now. Plus the added hubris of it being a Mania Takeover I'm not surprised they won here, even with Peacock (I don't think the amount of people subscribed to it is all that high yet, and with it being on USA I think most people probably just watched it on USA given the ease of access and the age range). 

I'd guess AEW gets up to 800K or so next week given the bump with no NXT opposing them, could be higher maybe, not sure.


----------



## rbl85

Mister Sinister said:


> They should be coming out of this week with a million viewers and going into next week with the expectation of 1.5 million given NXT is moving to Tues. They will be lucky to break 900k next week.
> 
> What person would look at this week's card and say, that's a draw. The Bullet Club and Penisickle are not draws outside of several thousand marks that eat up the indie hype on MJF and NJPW.


Right now who is a draw in wrestling ?


----------



## Mr316

When you have freaking Sting, Jericho, Moxley. Your numbers should not even be near NXT. Unfortunately, Tony Khan has no idea what he’s doing.


----------



## Hitman1987

“Honey I shrunk the ratings”


----------



## Mr316

Hitman1987 said:


> “Honey I shrunk the ratings”
> View attachment 99709


 That’s why a scripted show needs writers. I know, shocking.


----------



## RapShepard

RainmakerV2 said:


> None of NXTs top 5 guys were even on the show lol. These dudes are just big mad they cant make dumb gifs on twitter about AEW winning.


Well they'll roll with NXT moving which is fair. But fucking christ there's always an excuse for numbers that are ultimately good enough to stay on TV. 

But baseball 

But the news

But reality shows

But the pandemic


----------



## chronoxiong

688k viewers only? Yikes.


----------



## rbl85

Who said that he knew a forum in which people were objective ?


----------



## DaSlacker

holy said:


> If you're just happy with AEW being 5th for the night rather than being a game-changing promotion that can help wrestling get back its lost popularity, then more power to you!


How realistic is that do though? Head to head with a very strong 2 hour wrestling show, when cord cutting has pushed average cable ratings to the 0.4 to 1.5 million range, the wrestling audience on network TV is 2 million and the genre is very very worn and oversaturated. 

As much as I criticise AEW, I do feel like some have high expectations that can't be met. Both in terms of quality and viewership.


----------



## Mr316

rbl85 said:


> Who said that he knew a forum in which people were objective ?


We’re actually objective. Tell me how much Tony Khan spent. Look at how many people are watching. It’s embarrassing.


----------



## rbl85

DaSlacker said:


> How realistic is that do though? Head to head with a very strong 2 hour wrestling show, when cord cutting has pushed average cable ratings to the 0.4 to 1.5 million range, the wrestling audience on network TV is 2 million and the genre is very very worn and oversaturated.
> 
> As much as I criticise AEW, I do feel like some have high expectations that can't be met. Both in terms of quality and viewership.


Some people here think we're still in the early 2000.....


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> So they should do a special show just because NXT last wednesday show is the Mania takeover ?


[emoji2367] no the point is stop making excuses for everything. NXT threw a special show, just like AEW does special shows. Big events happen on TV.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Mr316 said:


> We’re actually objective. Tell me how much Tony Khan spent. Look at how many people are watching. It’s embarrassing.


I disagree with this, as he has somehow managed to get a multimillion dollar contract with TNT. I would not call it pathetic. I would however say that I can see the product struggling in 5-10 years time.


----------



## The XL 2

688K with Mike Tyson on the program, yikes. It's pretty much over, they're never going to be big time, which is a shame because they had a chance to be. But as long as they have their TV rights money, they'll stick around. Fucking lol at trying to build a national company around Cody, Omega and the Bucks.


----------



## The Wood

holy said:


> If you're just happy with AEW being 5th for the night rather than being a game-changing promotion that can help wrestling get back its lost popularity, then more power to you!


They’re 5th in arbitrary rankings by 39 year old white men with no money in 2021. The “key demo” doesn’t mean what people think it means these days. It’s just the preferred metric to compare AEW to other programming.



ProjectGargano said:


> No, they won, WWE third brand had to move on.


Almost definitely because of hockey. Which won’t do as well in the ratings, but is still more valuable because advertisers value its key demo more.


----------



## 3venflow

Percentage changes from last week:

NXT: 768,000 (+17.43%)
AEW: 688,000 (-1.71%)

18-49 AEW: .28 (+7.69%)
18-49 NXT: .22 (+4.76%)

Overall: 1,456,000 (+7.53%)

Year on year:

(Total)
AEW 4/8/20: 692,000
AEW 4/7/21: 688,000 (-0.56%)

(18-49)
AEW 4/8/20: .26
AEW 4/7/21: .28 (+7.69%)


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> [emoji2367] no the point is stop making excuses for everything. NXT threw a special show, just like AEW does special shows. Big events happen on TV.


Personally i think that what's the other wrestling show is doing on the same night (takeover or special shows) is a better "excuse" than the other excuses i can read here.

But as you said, if AEW wanted they could have done a special show too but the i think it's a good thing they didn't do it because a lot of people would have said "they are counter programming when they said they never do".


----------



## Christopher Near

They shouldve saved mike tyson for next week. Definitely wouldve hit a million. Takeover was awesome so I had to come back and watch the tag main event


----------



## DaSlacker

Mr316 said:


> When you have freaking Sting, Jericho, Moxley. Your numbers should not even be near NXT. Unfortunately, Tony Khan has no idea what he’s doing.


Kind of agree with the latter.

But bringing in those guys (Tyson, not Mox) is the equivalent of WCW or even ECW bringing in Bruno Sammartino, George Foreman and Bob Backlund in 1999-2001. Sounds good on paper. Wouldn't have done much for ratings because they are all over 50 and had their peak 20-30 years prior.


----------



## Geert Wilders

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> I predicted 680k in the other thread so I was pretty spot on then.
> 
> The Takeover show was awesome, and some of the matches on the card were built up quite well, and they had been promoting this show hard for what feels like months now. Plus the added hubris of it being a Mania Takeover I'm not surprised they won here, even with Peacock (I don't think the amount of people subscribed to it is all that high yet, and with it being on USA I think most people probably just watched it on USA given the ease of access and the age range).
> 
> I'd guess AEW gets up to 800K or so next week given the bump with no NXT opposing them, could be higher maybe, not sure.


this night should show that NXT did not even draw AEW fans. NXT did their average viewership number. 
AEW fans are simply turning off the TV


----------



## The XL 2

WWE averaged about 4 or so million viewers 7 years ago and could occasionally hit 5 million. They bled over half of that in the last 7 years. AEW had an amazing opportunity to grab the people that WWE turned off over the last decade, and they spectacularly blew that opportunity. Imagine having billions of dollars, getting a TV spot on TNT of all places, and then hiring and building your show around outlaw trash. What an incredibly idiotic blunder.


----------



## Hitman1987

Mr316 said:


> That’s why a scripted show needs writers. I know, shocking.


Who needs writers when you’ve completed Smackdown vs Raw 2006 on the PlayStation


----------



## La Parka

rbl85 said:


> Who said that he knew a forum in which people were objective ?


I believe the forum is called aewheels.

Very objective


----------



## Kishido

Next week AEW will have 2 millions when NXT is gone


----------



## Shock Street

LifeInCattleClass said:


> She’s over
> 
> key demo wins again
> 
> 
> somebody close this thread plzzz
> 
> also... took them less than 83 weeks


It's not an AEW VS NXT thread, it's a ratings thread. The ratings are still going to exist next week.



Kishido said:


> Next week AEW will have 2 millions when NXT is gone


The two put together don't even hit close to that, wat


----------



## TD Stinger

I predicted 685k so I was pretty close. Probably would have been a little lower if NXT had only been available on USA. But, #5 for the night ain't bad.

I'll guess 850k for next week.


----------



## Geert Wilders

What makes people think NXT fans will watch AEW because there is no NXT on a Wednesday? There are hundreds, if not, thousands of other things to watch thanks to Netflix.


----------



## rbl85

Geert Wilders said:


> What makes people think NXT fans will watch AEW because there is no NXT on a Wednesday? There are hundreds, if not, thousands of other things to watch thanks to Netflix.


Some will watch but not much.

AEW fanbase and NXT fanbase does not like each other


----------



## 3venflow

Geert Wilders said:


> What makes people think NXT fans will watch AEW because there is no NXT on a Wednesday? There are hundreds, if not, thousands of other things to watch thanks to Netflix.


There is no knowing until it happens. To date we just have five examples of NXT and AEW being unopposed and in every case, the rating went up. Not by a massive amount, but on average by about 125k.

AEW unopposed in bold and the three shows before/after last year: 773,000, 901,000, 792,000, *928,000*, *1,016,000*, 886,000, 835,000, 866,000


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> Personally i think that what's the other wrestling show is doing on the same night (takeover or special shows) is a better "excuse" than the other excuses i can read here.
> 
> But as you said, if AEW wanted they could have done a special show too but the i think it's a good thing they didn't do it because a lot of people would have said "they are counter programming when they said they never do".


Counter programming either way is dumb thing because it's competition. You do what you can to compete. If AEW knows the MLB has a finals game, nothing's wrong with saying "hey maybe we should do a big match or 2 to compete better" Especially since certain things they can predict just by looking at scheduling. Finals/finales of reality, competition, and sports are planned months in advance. Would make sense for them to start planning ahead and have blowoff episodes of Dynamites on those nights.


----------



## Geert Wilders

3venflow said:


> There is no knowing until it happens. To date we just have five examples of NXT and AEW being unopposed and in every case, the rating went up. Not by a massive amount, but on average by about 125k.
> 
> AEW unopposed in bold and the three shows before/after last year: 773,000, 901,000, 792,000, *928,000*, *1,016,000*, 886,000, 835,000, 866,000


Thank you for sharing this. I was not aware. It is a shame that they cannot draw the whole NXT fanbase, but I do not believe their current product is able to. I think they would’ve had the chance of doing this in the first half of their existence, as I believe the quality of AEW was at its highest at this time.


----------



## Whoanma

rbl85 said:


> Some will watch but not much.
> 
> AEW fanbase and NXT fanbase does not like each other


Some watch both, let’s not be mistaken here.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

The XL 2 said:


> WWE averaged about 4 or so million viewers 7 years ago and could occasionally hit 5 million. They bled over half of that in the last 7 years. AEW had an amazing opportunity to grab the people that WWE turned off over the last decade, and they spectacularly blew that opportunity. Imagine having billions of dollars, getting a TV spot on TNT of all places, and then hiring and building your show around outlaw trash. What an incredibly idiotic blunder.


I disagree. I've always been more nihilistic about the state of wrestling than the average fan I guess.

There's an entire generation of fans who only knew WWE and to a huge lesser extent, TNA. WWE through 20 years of incompetence and outright hostility towards their fans have driven away countless people. Of course, fewer new wrestling fans are being made than ever, so you mostly have older fans. I don't think those fans are coming back. Just like when WCW went out of business and WWE thought they'd magically get their fans. It didn't happen. There was a considerable amount of people, likely JCP fan holdovers, who had no interest in Vince's brand of wrestling and left forever. It could very well be the same for AEW. Some lapsed fans may view WWE's style as the one they want to see.

However the fans left are willing to spend more money than ever, plus the advances of the internet has made merchandising more lucrative than ever. They'll also travel all over the world. Thus wrestling may appear decently popular to some, even though less people than ever are watching in general. Like the only way to see Japanese wrestling back in the day was tape trading, now it's easily accessible whenever. It's a different world.

The point of my rambling is, it's all a house of cards I think. There's nowhere to go but down for everyone.


----------



## rbl85

Geert Wilders said:


> Thank you for sharing this. I was not aware. It is a shame that they cannot draw the whole NXT fanbase, but I do not believe their current product is able to. I think they would’ve had the chance of doing this in the first half of their existence, as I believe the quality of AEW was at its highest at this time.


The thing is the real war was between the fanbase of each show.

People who watch NXT will never watch Dynamite, why ? because it's AEW
People who watch AEW will never watch NXT, why ? because it's the WWE


----------



## rbl85

Whoanma said:


> Some watch both, let’s not be mistaken here.


Yes that why i wrote "some will watch"


----------



## yeahright2

Okay, results are in for the ratings game

AEW Ratings prediction game

A lot of people came close, but there was only one winner.

If they had announced Tyson last week, I think they would have scored a little higher, but as it was, a lot of people either didn´t know he was coming, or didn´t care as it looked like a last minute desperation move.
Next week should be higher, since they will run unopposed.. But man, that Revolution PPV really hurt them.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> The thing is the real war was between the fanbase of each show.
> 
> People who watch NXT will never watch Dynamite, why ? because it's AEW
> People who watch AEW will never watch NXT, why ? because it's the WWE


Nah they definitely share a fan base for the most part. NXT was most AEW fans US alternative before AEW came around. If you like one I can't see how you'd hate the other. Outside of the fun of shit talking.


----------



## Joe Gill

DaSlacker said:


> How realistic is that do though? Head to head with a very strong 2 hour wrestling show, when cord cutting has pushed average cable ratings to the 0.4 to 1.5 million range, the wrestling audience on network TV is 2 million and the genre is very very worn and oversaturated.
> 
> As much as I criticise AEW, I do feel like some have high expectations that can't be met. Both in terms of quality and viewership.


its not just the tv ratings... its also on their youtube channel.... the first 6 months or so they were getting some monster views for their clips... like 10+ million for some and 2-5 million for others. Now they are lucky to crack a million and it usually involves something huge like Sting debut or Shaq. 
Lets face reality.... TK is not going to be the guy who saved pro wrestling. Hes just like any indy wrestling geek fan who happens to be a billionaire. He has no actual talent or vision like McMahon or Heyman had.... and it becomes clear week after week that hes in over his head. 
I will give TK credit for the creation of AEW... he started from scratch and created a new wrestling promotion and got a tv deal with TNT. He signed Jericho, Cody and Moxley... and said all the right things and got thousands of fans to pack the arena in wasgington dc for the first episode and got 1.4 million people to tune in on tv. He did a helluva job. But its very clear that as a booker he has no fucking clue what hes doing. Its just getting worse and worse and ratings declined to a point where the wwe third rate show got more viewers... and wwe is complete shit right now. This has more to do than cord cutting... the product is fundamentally flawed.... it seems like only the hardcore indy fans still love this show... well if thats the target audience the ratings will continue to decline and eventually level off in the 300-400k range.


----------



## .christopher.

This week they get a pass. Next week will be the real eye opener as to whether they've run off the amount of viewers it seems like they have since their disastrous ppv.


----------



## anonymous9437

Chip Chipperson was right, no one wants to watch this horribly booked trash

They’ll be at 500k in the near future


----------



## rbl85

anonymous9437 said:


> Chip Chipperson was right, no one wants to watch this horribly booked trash
> 
> They’ll be at 500k in the near future


Bye Chip


----------



## Joe Gill

3venflow said:


> There is no knowing until it happens. To date we just have five examples of NXT and AEW being unopposed and in every case, the rating went up. Not by a massive amount, but on average by about 125k.
> 
> AEW unopposed in bold and the three shows before/after last year: 773,000, 901,000, 792,000, *928,000*, *1,016,000*, 886,000, 835,000, 866,000


it looks like they will pick up around 130k viewers... so im predicting about 800k viewers next week.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Why did this idiot Khan waste money on Tyson. Did he not realise from Tyson's last appearance that people only care about him when he's boxing?

How you get 688k when you hype up Mike Tyson? The dude was selling over 1m PPV for exhibition boxing bouts a few months back at $60 a pop.


----------



## Geert Wilders

rbl85 said:


> The thing is the real war was between the fanbase of each show.
> 
> People who watch NXT will never watch Dynamite, why ? because it's AEW
> People who watch AEW will never watch NXT, why ? because it's the WWE


I agree with you. But at the same time, if AEWs product was unmissable, WWE fans would have no choice but to watch the product. Imagine if all your friends watched AEW. You would feel left out and end up watching.

The product needs to unmissable. Word of mouth is the hottest form of promotion. Not last minute Tyson bookings. If the product was good, Mr Khan would not need to resort to celebrity useage. The same can be said for Mr McMahon and his YouTube celebrities.

I remember when I was a teenager. People could not stop talking about WWE. Do you think the kids these days talk about AEW?


----------



## rich110991

It really is baffling how RAW and SD still get more viewers than Dynamite. Why do people prefer the shit WWE produces over Dynamite? Last night wasn’t the best ever Dynamite but still... I’ll take it any day over WWE’s crap.


----------



## anonymous9437

Dark Emperor said:


> Why did this idiot Khan waste money on Tyson. Did he not realise from Tyson's last appearance that people only care about him when he's boxing?
> 
> How you get 688k when you hype up Mike Tyson? The dude was selling over 1m PPV for exhibition boxing bouts a few months back at $60 a pop.


100% agree Tyson was a complete waste

What’s happening is Daddy Khan is so rich that he’s allowing his idiot son burn through some of his money with this wrestling experiment but eventually he’ll cut off his allowance and all the AEW fanboys will be left crying that their precious little piece of shit AEW is dead


----------



## omaroo

anonymous9437 said:


> 100% agree Tyson was a complete waste
> 
> What’s happening is Daddy Khan is so rich that he’s allowing his idiot son burn through some of his money with this wrestling experiment but eventually he’ll cut off his allowance and all the AEW fanboys will be left crying that their precious little piece of shit AEW is dead


AEW aint going away anytime soon sorry to disappoint bitter haters like yourself.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> What the fuck is this? This is a forum. Either discuss the points or get off. It’s not up to Two Sheds to do an AEW run-in and give a bunch of no-marks shoot Two Shed Stunners to try and change wrestling history.


Hey, this is a wrestling forum where the poster who you’re attacking can add his/her valuable opinion on here. Why are you so angry over him/her for making a truthful statement?



Mr316 said:


> AEW fans already finding excuses for their favorite show. Cute.


Oh, I see that you’re still doing that mediocre, sad gimmick where you frequently antagonize wrestling fans for enjoying a (good) show that you hopelessly despise. Yep, that’s real ‘cute’ indeed.


----------



## Dark Emperor

rich110991 said:


> It really is baffling how RAW and SD still get more viewers than Dynamite. Why do people prefer the shit WWE produces over Dynamite? Last night wasn’t the best ever Dynamite but still... I’ll take it any day over WWE’s crap.


It's not baffling at all. AEW is not that good and majority of wrestling fans would tell you Smackdown is a better show. WWE is also a bigger brand with bigger stars so even if Raw is not good, people are more familar with their wrestlers and roster so will usually watch that over AEW.

AEW's only star in his prime is Mox and he was the smallest of the three stars to come out of The Shild so not even a major star in WWE. Everyone else like Cody was a midcarder or below. Or only popular in indies like Kenny who won't do any significant numbers to the mass.

Then you got over the hill talent like Jericho, Christian & Big Show, who are names but nobody gives a damn about in 2021. A whole lot of money being spent with very small results. Sting is a complete waste of money.


----------



## 3venflow

Still TNT's crown jewel it seems...

ONE Championship debut show on TNT averaged 196,000 viewers with a 0.08 in the 18-49 demo - immediately following AEW.

(Apparently that's better than what Bellator is doing on Showtime, though)


----------



## Mike E

It's awesome to see AEW in the top 5 again in cable TV's top 150!


----------



## DammitChrist

Mr316 said:


> *We’re actually objective.* Tell me how much Tony Khan spent. Look at how many people are watching. It’s embarrassing.


No, you’re not at all. Why are you lying? 😂


----------



## DammitChrist

The XL 2 said:


> 688K with Mike Tyson on the program, yikes. It's pretty much over, they're never going to be big time, which is a shame because they had a chance to be. But as long as they have their TV rights money, they'll stick around. Fucking lol at trying to build a national company around Cody, Omega and the Bucks.


Why WOULDN’T they build a company around great talents like Kenny Omega, Cody Rhodes, and Young Bucks? 😂

You do realize that those guys are pretty much why this company (thankfully) exists in spite of the bitter vitriol on here.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Dark Emperor said:


> Why did this idiot Khan waste money on Tyson. Did he not realise from Tyson's last appearance that people only care about him when he's boxing?
> 
> How you get 688k when you hype up Mike Tyson? The dude was selling over 1m PPV for exhibition boxing bouts a few months back at $60 a pop.


Same reason that Logan Paul guy didn't do anything for SD's ratings despite being really popular with young people and kids.

Wrestling is just uncool to the average person. Nowehere to go but down. Doesn't mean we can't enjoy it, but I see no resurgence of popularity in the foreseeable future. At least in the US.


----------



## qntntgood

Dark Emperor said:


> Why did this idiot Khan waste money on Tyson. Did he not realise from Tyson's last appearance that people only care about him when he's boxing?
> 
> How you get 688k when you hype up Mike Tyson? The dude was selling over 1m PPV for exhibition boxing bouts a few months back at $60 a pop.


This what happens when you have a dumb ass,running things and four different evp's trying to pull the company in different directions.


----------



## Randy Lahey

RainmakerV2 said:


> Thats a strong number for NXT when you consider it was on Peacock commercial free.


Not in the demo. It simply confirms a bunch of old people watch NXT, and nobody else.


----------



## AuthorOfPosts

AEW should be relieved that NXT are moving. Not because NXT would regularly beat them but because AEW's numbers being low would be hurting them.


----------



## DammitChrist

I’ll laugh if this show is still around, and going strong 5 years from now. 

I bet the pessimistic sentiment here will look pretty sad until then.


----------



## AuthorOfPosts

rich110991 said:


> It really is baffling how RAW and SD still get more viewers than Dynamite. Why do people prefer the shit WWE produces over Dynamite? Last night wasn’t the best ever Dynamite but still... I’ll take it any day over WWE’s crap.


Raw is crap. SmackDown is okay. AEW is somewhere in between. NXT is better than all three.


----------



## Randy Lahey

AEW's demos next week won't change much, since NXT's demos are horrible. So when NXT moves, AEW will pick up some older viewers that really nobody cares about. But their demos won't change much. AEW will be around 900k- 1.1 mils.

The real question is if NXT does better on Tuesday night in the 18-34 demo. They have to, or else they'll get cancelled.


----------



## AuthorOfPosts

DammitChrist said:


> I’ll laugh if this show is still around, and going strong 5 years from now.
> 
> I bet the pessimistic sentiment here will look pretty sad until then.


If Impact survived this long then I expect AEW to survive as well. They're just a long way from taking over the whole business like some deluded and irrational AEW fans thought.


----------



## rbl85

Geert Wilders said:


> I agree with you. But at the same time, if AEWs product was unmissable, WWE fans would have no choice but to watch the product. Imagine if all your friends watched AEW. You would feel left out and end up watching.
> 
> The product needs to unmissable. Word of mouth is the hottest form of promotion. Not last minute Tyson bookings. If the product was good, Mr Khan would not need to resort to celebrity useage. The same can be said for Mr McMahon and his YouTube celebrities.
> 
> I remember when I was a teenager. People could not stop talking about WWE. Do you think the kids these days talk about AEW?


Do you think todays kids talk about the WWE ?


----------



## DaSlacker

rbl85 said:


> Do you think todays kids talk about the WWE ?


Too busy spending money on Roblox, playing on Fortnite and talking about Tiktok lol. 

WWE is just some they discover and then get their parents to buy a few action figures before going back to the aforementioned.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

I don’t get it. Tay Conti’s ass alone should be good for at least 800k.


----------



## 3venflow

DammitChrist said:


> I’ll laugh if this show is still around, and going strong 5 years from now.
> 
> I bet the pessimistic sentiment here will look pretty sad until then.


Takes a hell of a lot to kill a wrestling promotion with decent backing, as IMPACT and NOAH have proven.

You can never say for sure, but I'd rate it as 90% that AEW will still be around in five years time. It may not look the same, it may not even be booked the same, but it'll be around. This is Tony Khan's dream investment and he puts more time and effort into it than Fulham or the Jags.

Plus, AEW has a small but giving fanbase, look at the conversion rate from TV to PPV buys for Revolution. Unbelievably high conversion %. Even though attendances were hit and miss before the pandemic at times, they also did some good paid attendances on the road. Tomorrow's house show is pretty much sold out too, and they've been running Daily's Place non-stop for over a year.


----------



## qntntgood

The average aew viewer is 47 years old and if you don't believe just ask dave meltzer,after his stooge alverez had to report it.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

rich110991 said:


> It really is baffling how RAW and SD still get more viewers than Dynamite. Why do people prefer the shit WWE produces over Dynamite? Last night wasn’t the best ever Dynamite but still... I’ll take it any day over WWE’s crap.


I don’t know, why do people watch fat, stupid, inbred attention whores and doctors popping festering abscesses? AND pay $4.99 for the privilege of doing so on Discovery+? It’s another sign of the impending total collapse of civilization, and it’s all Zuckerberg’s fault.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Two Sheds said:


> How about you actually address the arguments/points made instead of making lazy, ad hominem attacks?
> 
> More and more people are seeing through a lot of the amateurish stuff these rookies are doing and some of you seem to be taking that personally. Very weird.


How about you not tell me what the fuck to post. You got a bad habit of doing that. I will address WHATEVER I want in WHATEVER fucking manner I choose. And I choose to respond to that part which was fucking rediculous and frankly pathetic. And that gooes for your little friend to.


----------



## El Hammerstone

The Raw Smackdown said:


> How about you not tell me what the fuck to post. You got a bad habit of doing that. I will address WHATEVER I want in WHATEVER fucking manner I choose. And I choose to respond to that part which was fucking rediculous and frankly pathetic. And that gooes for your little friend to.


Don't get so emotional


----------



## Dark Emperor

Randy Lahey said:


> AEW's demos next week won't change much, since NXT's demos are horrible. So when NXT moves, AEW will pick up some older viewers that really nobody cares about. But their demos won't change much. AEW will be around 900k- 1.1 mils.
> 
> The real question is if NXT does better on Tuesday night in the 18-34 demo. They have to, or else they'll get cancelled.


That is super optimistic. From history they have gained between 100-130k when NXT wasnt on. In that period they only got over 1.0m once and that was a post PPV show. Those period were when AEW was doing mid 800s oppossed anyway.

Now their baseline is 680-720k, any gain from NXT will have them only just getting over 800k. Then can get 900k for a special show or a debut but over 1m isn't happening anytime soon unless they sign a game changer.


----------



## La Parka

The Raw Smackdown said:


> How about you not tell me what the fuck to post. You got a bad habit of doing that. I will address WHATEVER I want in WHATEVER fucking manner I choose. And I choose to respond to that part which was fucking rediculous and frankly pathetic. And that gooes for your little friend to.


How’d you type that with so much tears in your eyes?


----------



## DammitChrist

El Hammerstone said:


> Don't get so emotional


To be fair, that poster sounded much more rational with that response rather than being 'emotional' tbh.



La Parka said:


> How’d you type that with so much tears in your eyes?


Now, there's no need for you to get offended by that justified response.

There was definitely no "crying" in that post.


----------



## Chan Hung

One word. Growth. There has been no substantial steady growth. Zero.

Just clinging to their hopeful fanbase and now they are losing some of it. I mentioned after Revolution, that AEW was taking for granted people buying a ppv that was in my personal opinion no better than a Wednesday Dynamite.

In business, at the end they look at the funds, the management and if things are trending downward, usually it is time to change direction. Time to cut lose and let people go. Stop giving sympathy fucks for the ones like Stink Order and many others who clearly are not ready for prime time TV. They also look so bad as a whole, how can they expect casuals to really tune into this shit? Honestly, they need to be taken off.

So many other issues also... look at for instance the Pinnacle.Both weeks in a row, in the end they are punked out, and why should we still care about them or buy into them? There are major booking problems. Along with, unstable back and forth face and heel turns, also at the end of matches you always have the opponent come back and attack the winner or get the last word so nobody really gets over. They are doing too much catering to both sides, rather than focusing on what made wrestling popular and exciting.

Again, time to cut a lot of these loose ends now.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Oh and lmao at the ONE FC viewership which was star studded by their standards. And people always claim most wrestling fans have moved on to MMA/UFC just to put down wrestling. But WWE always had better viewership than UFC Fight Nights.

MMA, or UFC specifically is now star driven business where only McGregor, Diaz & Masvidal draw good numbers. Hopefully my African brother Ngannou joins these ranks soon.

Apart from that, its not as popular as people think and was much more popular back in the day when they could rely on Lesnar, GSP, Rampage, Silva, Sonnen etc to draw consistenly large numbers.

But like WWE, as interest reduces domestically, they are making more money than ever with their contracts.


----------



## Mr316

Brandi is probably at home saying to Cody that the ratings are falling because she isn’t on TV.


----------



## One Shed

The Raw Smackdown said:


> How about you not tell me what the fuck to post. You got a bad habit of doing that. I will address WHATEVER I want in WHATEVER fucking manner I choose. And I choose to respond to that part which was fucking rediculous and frankly pathetic. And that gooes for your little friend to.


Great comeback.

Hopefully @Firefromthegods will help you stay on topic and stop posting personal attacks. Until then I will tell you exactly what to post: things relevant to the topic at hand and not emotional outbursts and ad hominems.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> To be fair, that poster sounded much more rational with that response rather than being 'emotional' tbh.
> 
> 
> 
> Now, there's no need for you to get offended by that justified response.
> 
> There was definitely no "crying" in that post.


You gotta at least call a spade a spade even if you agree with someone overall. Immature, emotional outbursts at other users have no place outside rants. He clearly has nothing to say other than being butthurt people exist in the universe that disagree with him.


----------



## bdon

Don’t care about the ratings. I watched WCW fall apart, and the show for the most part doesn’t hook me.

So, I’m fine watching the story of Kenny Omega come to a head. The Bucks bring it down a bit, but I don’t give a shit. The history makes it worthwhile for me. I know lots won’t enjoy it in wrestling, but it IS what I want in storytelling.


----------



## DaSlacker

3venflow said:


> Takes a hell of a lot to kill a wrestling promotion with decent backing, as IMPACT and NOAH have proven.
> 
> You can never say for sure, but I'd rate it as 90% that AEW will still be around in five years time. It may not look the same, it may not even be booked the same, but it'll be around. This is Tony Khan's dream investment and he puts more time and effort into it than Fulham or the Jags.
> 
> Plus, AEW has a small but giving fanbase, look at the conversion rate from TV to PPV buys for Revolution. Unbelievably high conversion %. Even though attendances were hit and miss before the pandemic at times, they also did some good paid attendances on the road. Tomorrow's house show is pretty much sold out too, and they've been running Daily's Place non-stop for over a year.


Yep. It's easy to see how and why wrestling companies collapsed in the past. But it's actually difficult to see how they can now. Everything is so connected to a hierarchy of a handful of corporate giants. Everything is so ingrained in the brand, the franchise, the asset. I think there would need to be massive shift in how the media operates, to simply wipe out AEW in one sweep. 

If WWE can lose 2/3 of its audience in 11 years and still pull off record setting, multi billion dollar deals. If NXT can drop below 600,000 viewers and be extended for another 3 years. 

If anything I see all the WWE alternatives (AEW, Impact, ROH, MLW, NWA) and platforms (FiteTV) becoming a lot more interlinked moving forward. Khan has basically positioned himself as the middleman between a giant like WarnerMedia and the the 100s of hours of content these assets produce the 1000s they own. 

Just look at the upcoming content for Paramount +, Peacock, HBO Max, Disney Plus. It's predominantly throwbacks: Beavis and Butthead, Bel-Air, Clueless, Star Wars, Star Trek, Gremlins, Chucky etc. And there's no more of a throwback than pro wrestling lol.


----------



## Garty

As usual, NXT does better again this week and STILL the haters are here  -ing on AEW. If you want an intelligent positive ratings discussion, why don't you all go talk about NXT over there?! I mean they did finally win, on the last Wednesday broadcast, with a PPV-quality cable network show, so it's not like you'd want to talk about the positives on the NXT board right? Us "fanboys" always talk about AEW winning every week in the NXT thread, right... Yeah, there's only been 8 posts since this weeks ratings were released, before that... 13 days. So no, I never see this as only a one-sided discussion every week. 

Thank fuck that this back-and-forth bullshit is finally over with.


----------



## RapShepard

Garty is All Elite said:


> As usual, NXT does better again this week and STILL the haters are here  -ing on AEW. If you want an intelligent positive ratings discussion, why don't you all go talk about NXT over there?! I mean they did finally win, on the last Wednesday broadcast, with a PPV-quality cable network show, so it's not like you'd want to talk about the positives on the NXT board right? Us "fanboys" always talk about AEW winning every week in the NXT thread, right... Yeah, there's only been 8 posts since this weeks ratings were released, before that... 13 days. So no, I never see this as only a one-sided discussion every week.
> 
> Thank fuck that this back-and-forth bullshit is finally over with.


Garty as usual rushing to defend AEW while offering no actual opinion of his own on the topic, while conveniently ignoring @LifeInCattleClass threw the first shot in the weekly banter

Below first 2 post on this week's number



3venflow said:


> The final Wednesday Night War ratings:
> 
> NXT Takeover: 768,000 (0.22 key demo)
> 
> AEW Dynamite: 688,000 (0.28 key demo)
> 
> Final WNW count - AEW: 63, NXT: 10, Tie: 2


Neutral



LifeInCattleClass said:


> She’s over
> 
> key demo wins again
> 
> 
> somebody close this thread plzzz
> 
> also... took them less than 83 weeks


Fair parting shot


----------



## sideon

Randy Lahey said:


> AEW's demos next week won't change much, since NXT's demos are horrible. So when NXT moves, AEW will pick up some older viewers that really nobody cares about. But their demos won't change much. AEW will be around 900k- 1.1 mils.
> 
> The real question is if NXT does better on Tuesday night in the 18-34 demo. They have to, or else they'll get cancelled.


What makes you think they'll be around 900k or 1mil? In case you haven't noticed the ratings for both shows have dropped, meaning more people are just tuning out instead of switching back and forth. Also enough with the damn demo talk, because if AEW can't average 1mil without competition then it won't matter what the demo is. Finally, It doesn't matter if NXT gets taken off tv since they'll just go back to the network on Peacock. NXT was always playing with house money while AEW needs Dynamite to be successful to survive.


----------



## La Parka

DammitChrist said:


> To be fair, that poster sounded much more rational with that response rather than being 'emotional' tbh.
> 
> 
> 
> Now, there's no need for you to get offended by that justified response.
> 
> There was definitely no "crying" in that post.


He said fuck in every sentence.




Garty is All Elite said:


> As usual, NXT does better again this week and STILL the haters are here  -ing on AEW. If you want an intelligent positive ratings discussion, why don't you all go talk about NXT over there?! I mean they did finally win, on the last Wednesday broadcast, with a PPV-quality cable network show, so it's not like you'd want to talk about the positives on the NXT board right? Us "fanboys" always talk about AEW winning every week in the NXT thread, right... Yeah, there's only been 8 posts since this weeks ratings were released, before that... 13 days. So no, I never see this as only a one-sided discussion every week.
> 
> Thank fuck that this back-and-forth bullshit is finally over with.


Both shows draw awful numbers.

Only one fan base has excuses for its weekly terrible rating, though.


----------



## Randy Lahey

sideon said:


> . Also enough with the damn demo talk, because if AEW can't average 1mil without competition then it won't matter what the demo is.


Demo is the only number that matters in Cable.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Chan Hung said:


> One word. Growth. There has been no substantial steady growth. Zero.


Raw's down 20% year over year. AEW stayin the same, is all they need to do.


----------



## Garty

La Parka said:


> Both shows draw awful numbers.
> 
> Only one fan base has excuses for its weekly terrible rating, though.


I think you need to re-read what I said. No one has ever made excuses for NXT... they just don't talk about it. Period.


----------



## .christopher.

rbl85 said:


> Who said that he knew a forum in which people were objective ?


Let's be honest here. You don't want an objective forum. You want a safe place where you can pretend everything is alright with AEW.


----------



## Klitschko

Next week should be interesting for both AEW and NXT.


----------



## CM Buck

@Two Sheds @The Raw Smackdown what seems to be the problem?


----------



## One Shed

Firefromthegods said:


> @Two Sheds @The Raw Smackdown what seems to be the problem?


The usual. Ad hominims vs actually responding to a post.


----------



## CM Buck

Two Sheds said:


> The usual. Ad hominims vs actually responding to a post.


What was said? I only saw him getting upset because he believed you were telling him how to post?


----------



## RomeoBlues

I'm sure it's been said on here before but AEW don't know what they're doing when it comes to attracting a large audience, it's really that simple.

No wrestling fans really want to see Mike Tyson in 2021, an nWo knockoff? I've seen that more times than I can count, Four Horsemen I've seen, Sting I've seen, extreme violence I have seen, Team Taz I have seen...

Ratings now reflect it, I remember being so excited when they had well over a million people on opening night and now it's less than dying days of TNA...



Two Sheds said:


> The usual. Ad hominims vs actually responding to a post.


I don't know the process here but another similar poster by the name of @PushCrymeTyme told me in a thread yesterday to "Get the fuck out" 

Another poster by the name of LifeInCattleClass commented insulting my thread and not commenting on my content at all.

What's the situation? Is this generally allowed?


----------



## VIP86

688k viewers
booker of the YEAR strikes again
somebody needs to tell little TK that when people said less is more, they meant the content not the viewers


RomeoBlues said:


> What's the situation? Is this generally allowed?


nope, it's not generally allowed
but some people resort to personal attacks because they don't have valid arguments


----------



## Mister Sinister

The expectation with fans of the signing of Brock Lesnar at the ppv demonstrates that the fans see the need for a dramatic shift away from Omega. The fans thought a big shift was about to happen. Now it's been weeks of the same damn show with a long cold open match, women in Q6/Q7, and a trios match.


----------



## RomeoBlues

VIP86 said:


> nope, it's not generally allowed
> but some people resort to personal attacks because they don't have valid arguments


Oh man, well that sucks. I'm not really interested in engaging in personal attacks so @Firefromthegods if you're the person to go to could you deal with those guys for me? I don't really appreciate being told to get the fuck out when just trying to comment...



Mister Sinister said:


> The expectation with fans of the signing of Brock Lesnar at the ppv demonstrates that the fans see the need for a dramatic shift away from Omega. The fans thought a big shift was about to happen. Now it's been weeks of the same damn show with a long cold open match, women in Q6/Q7, and a trios match.


I was a huge fan of Kenny in New Japan Pro Wrestling and even thought him wrestling the little girl was cute in a way so you could say I've been a fan for a number of years but this AEW run of his is just boring...like all of it ranging from the long Hangman feud up to the Don Callis thing and now Bullet Club...


I'm ready for a shift


----------



## bdon

Mister Sinister said:


> The fans thought a big shift was about to happen. Now it's been weeks of the same damn show with a long cold open match, women in Q6/Q7, and a trios match.


Because all of those things you’re crying about have to do with Omega..?


----------



## One Shed

Firefromthegods said:


> What was said? I only saw him getting upset because he believed you were telling him how to post?


I made this post five days ago responding to @DammitChrist :



Two Sheds said:


> It is obviously perfectly fine for you to think that. But it should be clear that more and more people disagree with that and are voting with their remote controls.
> 
> Now for me, I do not equate popularity with quality as there have been a ton of books, movies, television shows, etc that I have loved that were never mainstream or popular and vice versa. I HATED Avatar yet it was the movie that made the most money (not adjusting for inflation) up until 2019. The top 10/20 list of TV shows by viewers generally include all kinds of "reality" and contest shows that I think are some of the dumbest things humans have ever put to film. But a lot of people watch them.
> 
> So it does not *really *matter to me if 100,000 people or 15 million people watch Dynamite. With any program I enjoy, as long as it does well enough to stay in existence (and importantly also does not compromise its quality to try and desperately stay on the air) I am happy. It just so happens that wrestling viewership generally does parallel what I like. Wrestling has catered mostly to children and immature people for almost 15 years now, has seen a nose dive in ratings as a result, and a lot of us are tired of it. So when I see an episode that is bookended by Christian and Kazarian in a great match and then three man babies and a monster in a garbage, intelligence insulting middle school gym indy fest, there is nothing else to call it except schizophrenic. That is why some of us get so annoyed. We SEE the potential and some great execution, and then the geek squad comes out.
> 
> Now to go back to my point about ratings not really mattering to me. IF the ratings were going way UP as a result of the garbage crap, then I would laugh and just stop watching as clearly like a lot of shows it is just not for me, but that a lot of people want to see trash. But that is not what is happening. The schizophrenic booking by a guy with clear ADHD is NOT producing increasing ratings so I see hope and a reason to want to fight against what I believe IS dragging down the show. Putting geeks like Trashidy, Kip, and Chuckle in a main event (let alone any event) is driving people away and that makes me happy because that means there is still a chance that a product I will enjoy will emerge from all this.


Then this dude decides to come in five days later and give it the typical troll baiting reply:



The Raw Smackdown said:


> You're so tired of the supposed direction of wrestling but won't do shit about it...


So I asked him to actually address the arguments/points in the post. Then he decided to have an emotional breakdown because I did not take the bait. Usually dumb stuff like this does not bother me, but if good posters get warned and banned for arguing, the lazy drive by baiters should too.


----------



## CenaFan247

688k ? Oof


----------



## girlonwrestling

I told y'all so...AEW bad


----------



## CM Buck

RomeoBlues said:


> Oh man, well that sucks. I'm not really interested in engaging in personal attacks so @Firefromthegods if you're the person to go to could you deal with those guys for me? I don't really appreciate being told to get the fuck out when just trying to comment...
> 
> 
> 
> I was a huge fan of Kenny in New Japan Pro Wrestling and even thought him wrestling the little girl was cute in a way so you could say I've been a fan for a number of years but this AEW run of his is just boring...like all of it ranging from the long Hangman feud up to the Don Callis thing and now Bullet Club...
> 
> 
> I'm ready for a shift


Crime usually cops it when his reported. As far as smart ass comments I tend to call em out in the thread if I see em.

@Two Sheds next time he or she does it report for me. But usually when they resort to whining then you've won the argument


----------



## PushCrymeTyme

RomeoBlues said:


> Oh man, well that sucks. I'm not really interested in engaging in personal attacks so @Firefromthegods if you're the person to go to could you deal with those guys for me? I don't really appreciate being told to get the fuck out when just trying to comment...
> 
> 
> 
> I was a huge fan of Kenny in New Japan Pro Wrestling and even thought him wrestling the little girl was cute in a way so you could say I've been a fan for a number of years but this AEW run of his is just boring...like all of it ranging from the long Hangman feud up to the Don Callis thing and now Bullet Club...
> 
> 
> I'm ready for a shift


srry bruh


----------



## zkorejo

Garty is All Elite said:


> As usual, NXT does better again this week and STILL the haters are here  -ing on AEW. If you want an intelligent positive ratings discussion, why don't you all go talk about NXT over there?! I mean they did finally win, on the last Wednesday broadcast, with a PPV-quality cable network show, so it's not like you'd want to talk about the positives on the NXT board right? Us "fanboys" always talk about AEW winning every week in the NXT thread, right... Yeah, there's only been 8 posts since this weeks ratings were released, before that... 13 days. So no, I never see this as only a one-sided discussion every week.
> 
> Thank fuck that this back-and-forth bullshit is finally over with.


There are total of 3 messages on the amazing Dunne vs Kushida Takeover match. We all know folks here want to see AEW dead more than see NXT do better. Suppose if AEW is gone today, these people will be hating on NXT the next week with "zOmG Triple H is Killing NXT". Its just what they enjoy the most about wrestling. Bitching about it. 

Takeover night 1 was not even that good imo yet it beat AEW. I'm glad it did though. Its good they left the Wednesday nights with something of a victory. Good for them.

AEW won't gain much with NXT moving. AEW needs to improve on certain aspects for sure and these ratings should be a good motivation behind it.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Its painfully obvious no one cares about this Being the Elite melodrama. Khan needs to shift gears and focus on and give TV time to guys with crossover appeal like Starks and Wardlow. This Elite Bullet Club horseshit is driving them into the ground.


----------



## Chan Hung

I wonder if there is data out already on each segment to see what the ratings were for each?

I know Tony K would hate to blame this on himself, but it does go back to him at the end of the day. One thing AEW could do to improve is to slow down on shoving too from happening much on TV. They seem to have lost the desire to invest in good storylines and just resort to random senseless bookings. 

I notice they throw a lot of lesser known talents on TV all at one time. They gotta slowdown on this. AEW seems to enjoy to gather a handful of unknowns and just toss them on TNT like no big deal. They need to stick to what works. If you have too many unknowns you are going to turn off some of the potential fans you could be needed. Have maybe 1 unknown jobber and perhaps 1 unknown new comer but with purpose. Seems like there is no purpose for many of their matches. Just thrown together.


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> Its painfully obvious no one cares about this Being the Elite melodrama. Khan needs to shift gears and focus on and give TV time to guys with crossover appeal like Starks and Wardlow. This Elite Bullet Club horseshit is driving them into the ground.


Nah, I highly doubt that the most popular/established acts on the show are "tanking" the ratings. That makes no sense considering the fact that plenty of wrestling fans still admire the Elite members.


----------



## RainmakerV2

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, I highly doubt that the most popular/established acts on the show are "tanking" the ratings. That makes no sense considering the fact that plenty of wrestling fans still admire the Elite members.


And my IQ just went down another 5 points.


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> And my IQ just went down another 5 points.


It must be your weird indifference/hatred of the Elite members that's doing this then because I know it truly has nothing to do with me. This honestly sounds like a you-problem.


----------



## thorn123

I am a natural pessimist and worry about AEW’s future.

Finally, a wrestling programme I am interested in after all these years and it’s viewership is spiralling.

I just don’t get it, IMO it is so much superior to its competition, but at the end of the day it is the numbers that count.


----------



## zkorejo

DaveRA said:


> I am a natural pessimist and worry about AEW’s future.
> 
> Finally, a wrestling programme I am interested in after all these years and it’s viewership is spiralling.
> 
> I just don’t get it, IMO it is so much superior to its competition, but at the end of the day it is the numbers that count.


I think there's nothing to worry about right now. It was reported that female viewers have dropped for all wrestling shows since last week or two. Also heard somewhere that MTV reality show is what's pulling all that 18-34 female demo. 

As for NXT winning this week, it's WM week with a big 2 night PPV quality Takeover. Its okay to lose this one I guess due to all the hype. Once WM week hype ends it should be back to normal. 

Dynamite IMO is much superior to everything else too but sometimes people just prefer to see the other product. I watched NXT takeover after such a long time this week and I honestly appreciate AEW even more. Not saying NXT is bad, but Dynamite is so much better when it does stuff right. 

Everyone here is just overreacting to the numbers as always.


----------



## Geert Wilders

rbl85 said:


> Do you think todays kids talk about the WWE ?


Unfortunately, yes. That’s why RAW still has a decent amount of viewers.


----------



## Aedubya

Geert Wilders said:


> Unfortunately, yes. That’s why RAW still has a decent amount of viewers.


The amount of viewers is still very low 
Hardly anyone watches wrestling anymore


----------



## Geert Wilders

Aedubya said:


> The amount of viewers is still very low
> Hardly anyone watches wrestling anymore


Agreed. But WWE is still a very lucrative business. I believe vince does not care about viewer numbers. It is about how much money is made.

also the comparison of today’s numbers and numbers 10 + years ago is irrelevant. DVR, online streaming services, YouTube. All these things have made it very easy to pick and choose what and when to watch shows. I believe we need to start looking at other indicators of popularity.


----------



## Wolf Mark

DaveRA said:


> I am a natural pessimist and worry about AEW’s future.
> 
> Finally, a wrestling programme I am interested in after all these years and it’s viewership is spiralling.
> 
> I just don’t get it, IMO it is so much superior to its competition, but at the end of the day it is the numbers that count.


AEW have great talent and Dynamite is usually an entertaining show but it's a mess writing-wise and booking-wise with multiple groups and so forth. As a former TNA fan, I see a similar trend with them. I remember watching Impact at their peak and while they all had the ingredients to succeed, it was like AEW in that nothing stuck and it felt like nothing mattered. Too much incompetence. And then they fell very hard, lost their TV deal, etc...Sadly AEW are doing the same thing. I wish they would bring someone like Court Bauer, an experienced booker(yet not too old) that knows what he is doing.


----------



## The Wood

RainmakerV2 said:


> Bro, NXTs top 5 guys (Gargano, O reilly, balor, kross, and cole) werent even on the show. Stop acting like it was some supercard that couldnt be missed. It was fine but the main show is tonight.


Holy shit, I had no clue about that. Haha, that’s interesting.



rbl85 said:


> So they should do a special show just because NXT last wednesday show is the Mania takeover ?


That wasn’t the point at all. 



rbl85 said:


> Who said that he knew a forum in which people were objective ?


You’re not objective.



Dark Emperor said:


> Why did this idiot Khan waste money on Tyson. Did he not realise from Tyson's last appearance that people only care about him when he's boxing?
> 
> How you get 688k when you hype up Mike Tyson? The dude was selling over 1m PPV for exhibition boxing bouts a few months back at $60 a pop.


When Vince panicked in 1998, he went to Tyson. TK is just doing the same thing without the same results. It’s also an easy TNT crossover, and all his boosts come from outside



rich110991 said:


> It really is baffling how RAW and SD still get more viewers than Dynamite. Why do people prefer the shit WWE produces over Dynamite? Last night wasn’t the best ever Dynamite but still... I’ll take it any day over WWE’s crap.


That’s your opinion. It is not reflected by as many people as you would, even in the online community. 



3venflow said:


> Still TNT's crown jewel it seems...
> 
> ONE Championship debut show on TNT averaged 196,000 viewers with a 0.08 in the 18-49 demo - immediately following AEW.
> 
> (Apparently that's better than what Bellator is doing on Showtime, though)


That’s not good for ONE, but it could splash back on AEW too. It depends how much TNT has invested in ONE, or which group they value more.



DammitChrist said:


> Why WOULDN’T they build a company around great talents like Kenny Omega, Cody Rhodes, and Young Bucks? 😂
> 
> You do realize that those guys are pretty much why this company (thankfully) exists in spite of the bitter vitriol on here.


AEW exists because Vince was about to get large TV rights for live entertainment, Chris Jericho was a free agent and Shad Khan had about $800k to spend. 



zkorejo said:


> There are total of 3 messages on the amazing Dunne vs Kushida Takeover match. We all know folks here want to see AEW dead more than see NXT do better. Suppose if AEW is gone today, these people will be hating on NXT the next week with "zOmG Triple H is Killing NXT". Its just what they enjoy the most about wrestling. Bitching about it.
> 
> Takeover night 1 was not even that good imo yet it beat AEW. I'm glad it did though. Its good they left the Wednesday nights with something of a victory. Good for them.
> 
> AEW won't gain much with NXT moving. AEW needs to improve on certain aspects for sure and these ratings should be a good motivation behind it.


AEW is more fun to talk about. It doesn’t mean the product is automatically more beloved. Sometimes something can be “good” in people’s minds and not generate that much conversation. 



DammitChrist said:


> Nah, I highly doubt that the most popular/established acts on the show are "tanking" the ratings. That makes no sense considering the fact that plenty of wrestling fans still admire the Elite members.


Not enough. The people who like that sort of thing are the people watching. That number is not exactly great in the grand context of things. Hate to break it to ya. 



DaveRA said:


> I am a natural pessimist and worry about AEW’s future.
> 
> Finally, a wrestling programme I am interested in after all these years and it’s viewership is spiralling.
> 
> I just don’t get it, IMO it is so much superior to its competition, but at the end of the day it is the numbers that count.


You’re just getting to the logical conclusion lots of us reached a while ago. If this thing tanks, it’s not going to stay alive unless Shad Khan really doesn’t mind throwing limitless money into his son’s vanity project.


----------



## Alright_Mate

At the end of the day, the Revolution PPV fucked them up.

Trust was lost and that’s been proven with recent ratings, they’ve failed to gain any new fans, because of their amateurish mistakes.

I used the word trust after Revolution happened, because it was clear as day, that they would need to build up trust again. The past few weeks though, has proved that they have failed to do so, apart from Britt Baker vs Thunder Rosa, which was different and had intrigue behind it, has anything been must watch? The answer is no.

And that’s been AEW’s biggest problem, they produced a PPV littered with amateurish mistakes, then have produced pretty average episodes ever since.

Omega‘s merry-go-round won’t hook in viewers.
If Sting can’t hook in viewers, then Christian definitely won’t.
Darby’s open challenges won’t hook in viewers.
Bang average factions won’t hook in viewers.

The patterns never end, but next week is the big one, when they went unopposed at times last year, they were posting 1 million and they thoroughly deserved it. Now they go permanently unopposed this time, if they can’t gain over 800k viewers next week, then it will show how much they have dropped off, since their hot period in around July last year.


----------



## VIP86

next week will not be an accurate indication at all
it will need a few weeks and even months to see how exactly will they perform unopposed regularly

now the "booker of the year" have no more excuses to why he doesn't get the same numbers as his main competition

this thread is far from Dead
actually i think this thread will be a lot more interesting now
because from now on the ready made excuses from some people will not work
so i predict we'll be seeing a lot more ridiculous and far-fetched excuses
i wish there was a thread to predict what's the next excuse would be (just like the ratings prediction thread)
this should be fun to watch


----------



## Swan-San

Fanboys are doing yourself no favours licking AEW's arse. They're blind to their errors because they're in a bubble of yes men and choose to ignore criticism because they're insecure like their fans.

every week bring out sting to get interupted by an empty promo, you can mix and match the weeks the promos happened and it would fit into every week which shows how awful the booking is, there's no story. Just genericness.

Christian being chased by team taz, so another join generic join our faction story.

AEW is legit booked like a Smackdown vs raw GM mode game, where you have 10 or so fixed storyline cut scenes and u just insert wrestler and repeat forever.

Awful TV show. Doesn't matter who they sign. They could sign CM Punk and Lesnar and they'll still be at 700k, they won't grow because of them, they'll suck away their star power and make them void like a black hole.

The only signing that matters now is someone in charge of booking and the demotion of the elite. But this whole thing is a big live action video game for Khan, it doesn't really matter to his life if it fails so he won't compromise.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

holy said:


> If you're just happy with AEW being 5th for the night rather than being a game-changing promotion that can help wrestling get back its lost popularity, then more power to you!


I am, what does it bother me how many other people like my fav promotion? As long as they are healthy

5th in a sea of programming is not bad either


----------



## rbl85

Geert Wilders said:


> Unfortunately, yes. That’s why RAW still has a decent amount of viewers.


Majority of RAW viewers are 50+ years old people.


----------



## TD Stinger

As a fan of AEW, I feel personally that a good amount of their stories just aren't quite hitting the mark at the moment.

*I like Kenny. I like the Bucks. I hate this melodramatic storyline that they've been recycling for about 3 years now. A story that you would have to have watched NJPW & ROH in 2018 to fully understand the whole context. I do have that context, and I hate it because I'm so burnt out on it.

*IC vs. Pinnacle started hot but now the Pinnacle, having only existed for a month, already look like chumps. They need something big in the next few weeks to re-establish them.

*The Nightmare Family Civil War......I don't care.

*Almost a month removed from the famous Baker vs. Rosa Lights out match, Baker has done barely anything on TV since then. We know she'll be the one to challenge Shida next, but instead of building an interesting conflict between her and Shida they're just killing time. And Rosa, the person who won the match, has been MIA since then. Don't know for what reason, but it's not great when you hardly remember that she's the one who won the match.

And the Women's Division as a whole has regressed back to the "it's 9:30, time for a Women's match!" since the Lights Out match, where the stuff at ringside take precedent over the stuff happening in the ring.


I'm not saying there aren't points of the shows I don't enjoy. Even within some of the negative stuff I just talked, there are things I like. And to be clear, I'm not trying to build up every other show by brining AEW down. A show like Raw still sucks. While with SD and NXT, I rate them the same usually as AEW. Usually good shows with flaws.

It's just that right now in AEW, it just feels like they're missing the mark on a lot of stuff. The thing with AEW is that most of the stuff I mentioned is fixable, it's just a question of whether or not they will be.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

anonymous9437 said:


> Chip Chipperson was right, no one wants to watch this horribly booked trash
> 
> They’ll be at 500k in the near future


Hi Chip... now fuckoff back to the dregs of Discord


----------



## thorn123

Wolf Mark said:


> AEW have great talent and Dynamite is usually an entertaining show but it's a mess writing-wise and booking-wise with multiple groups and so forth. As a former TNA fan, I see a similar trend with them. I remember watching Impact at their peak and while they all had the ingredients to succeed, it was like AEW in that nothing stuck and it felt like nothing mattered. Too much incompetence. And then they fell very hard, lost their TV deal, etc...Sadly AEW are doing the same thing. I wish they would bring someone like Court Bauer, an experienced booker(yet not too old) that knows what he is doing.


I loved prime TNA too


----------



## thorn123

All of these suggestions aren’t going to move the dial. A mega star(s) is, unfortunately there are none left.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> Majority of RAW viewers are 50+ years old people.


Raw scores about double what AEW does in the alleged key demo. And almost half the AEW is over 50. It’s a couple of 49 year olds that drags their median down.


----------



## DaSlacker

Call me naive but as a glass half full kind of guy I still believe AEW has structured things enough to move upwards. Felt the same about WCW back in 1992 and correctly predicted TNA had more or less peaked as far back as 2007. 

Dark days at the moment - being stuck in Florida and the Wednesday Night Wars + not meeting expectations are difficulties. The former are gradually being lifted and the nature of the wrestling genre kind of carries itself in the long run. Fans have short memories. The roster is young and entertaining: Starks, Wardlow, MJF, Page scream headliner to me. The tie-in's with other companies has potential when they go back to touring. 

Hopefully I'm right.


----------



## Prized Fighter

The bigger increase for AEW will come from The Challenge being over, not NXT moving. They may get 100k from NXT, but those people float weekly anyway. The Challenge has the female audience that AEW needs, to be able to get closer to the million mark.


----------



## Jaxon

that's a bad number, I get people love to support AEW but they have to admit that bad mistakes have happened and stop making excuses for the ratings when they are low.


----------



## DammitChrist

Swan-San said:


> Fanboys are doing yourself no favours licking AEW's arse. They're blind to their errors because they're in a bubble of yes men and choose to ignore criticism because they're insecure like their fans.
> 
> every week bring out sting to get interupted by an empty promo, you can mix and match the weeks the promos happened and it would fit into every week which shows how awful the booking is, there's no story. Just genericness.
> 
> Christian being chased by team taz, so another join generic join our faction story.
> 
> AEW is legit booked like a Smackdown vs raw GM mode game, where you have 10 or so fixed storyline cut scenes and u just insert wrestler and repeat forever.
> 
> Awful TV show. Doesn't matter who they sign. They could sign CM Punk and Lesnar and they'll still be at 700k, they won't grow because of them, they'll suck away their star power and make them void like a black hole.
> 
> The only signing that matters now is someone in charge of booking and the demotion of the elite. But this whole thing is a big live action video game for Khan, it doesn't really matter to his life if it fails so he won't compromise.


This long drivel here is just laughable, especially about the nonsensical part about the TV program being “awful”, or that pathetic opening to your post where you blatantly antagonize a great number of wrestling fans who actually do appreciate the good product (which pretty much just disqualified the rest of your lengthy post by using that as your opener) :lol


----------



## NathanMayberry

DaveRA said:


> I am a natural pessimist and worry about AEW’s future.
> 
> Finally, a wrestling programme I am interested in after all these years and it’s viewership is spiralling.
> 
> I just don’t get it, IMO it is so much superior to its competition, but at the end of the day it is the numbers that count.


Maybe you’re biased and it’s not superior to it’s competition? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

Tyson saving Jericho regained 113,000 viewers for AEW, taking it up to 732k, a huge spike on the previous segment.

Jericho's promo was a rare case of Q2 gaining on Q1, with a total of 728,000 (up 33k).

Highest quarter of the show? I'm dumbfounded by this after the tag version killed ratings last week, but it was Tay Conti vs. The Bunny with 741,000 viewers.


----------



## Alright_Mate

3venflow said:


> Highest quarter of the show? I'm dumbfounded by this after the tag version killed ratings last week, but it was Tay Conti vs. The Bunny with 741,000 viewers.


Tay’s booty was the highlight of the ep, so I’m not surprised tbf.


----------



## Geeee

Chan Hung said:


> I wonder if there is data out already on each segment to see what the ratings were for each?
> 
> I know Tony K would hate to blame this on himself, but it does go back to him at the end of the day. One thing AEW could do to improve is to slow down on shoving too from happening much on TV. They seem to have lost the desire to invest in good storylines and just resort to random senseless bookings.
> 
> I notice they throw a lot of lesser known talents on TV all at one time. They gotta slowdown on this. AEW seems to enjoy to gather a handful of unknowns and just toss them on TNT like no big deal. They need to stick to what works. If you have too many unknowns you are going to turn off some of the potential fans you could be needed. Have maybe 1 unknown jobber and perhaps 1 unknown new comer but with purpose. Seems like there is no purpose for many of their matches. Just thrown together.


I do think the formula has changed a bit. I thought the 2021 shows up until Revolution were really good to watch.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> This long drivel here is just laughable, especially about the nonsensical part about the TV program being “awful”, or that pathetic opening to your post where you blatantly antagonize a great number of wrestling fans who actually do appreciate the good product (which pretty much just disqualified the rest of your lengthy post by using that as your opener) :lol


Mate you really need to stop pretending that your opinion is some objective fact, he may not like AEW but his opinion isn't nonsensical at all, it's his opinion. Just like it's your OPINION that AEW I good, not a fact


----------



## Mike E

I feel like AEW have taken a step backward since Revolution, however it looks like they are trying to advance everyone's positions and stories heading into May. I think we will continue to see that in the coming weeks, which hopefully means more compelling episodes. I'm still enjoying the shows overall, minus some of the hiccups they have on the live episodes. I remember this time last year also being their lowest viewed episodes. Last April I remember them dropping into the mid to high 600,000 range, unless I'm remembering incorrectly.


----------



## 3venflow

Q1: Hangman Page vs. Max Caster – 691,000 viewers, 370,000 in 18-49
Q2: Death Triangle & Best Friends segment/Inner Circle promo – 728,000 viewers (up 37,000), 407,000 in 18-49 (up 37,000)
Q3: Christian Cage & Taz segment/Jurassic Express vs. Bear Country – 640,000 viewers (down 88,000), 363,000 in 18-49 (down 44,000)
Q4: End of Jurassic Express vs. Bear Country/QT Marshall promo/Sting & Lance Archer promo/Team Taz segment – 632,000 viewers (down 8,000), 338,000 in 18-49 (down 25,000)
Q5: Darby Allin vs. JD Drake – 620,000 viewers (down 12,000), 337,000 in 18-49 (down 1,000)
Q6: The Pinnacle, Inner Circle & Mike Tyson segment/Britt Baker promo/Tay Conti vs. The Bunny – 732,000 viewers (up 112,000), 366,000 in 18-49 (up 29,000)
Q7: End of Conti vs. Bunny/Jon Moxley & The Young Bucks vs. Kenny Omega & The Good Brothers – 741,000 viewers (up 9,000), 369,000 in 18-49 (up 3,000)
Q8: End of Moxley & Young Bucks vs. Omega & Good Brothers/Young Bucks heel turn – 724,000 viewers (down 17,000), 376,000 in 18-49 (up 7,000)

Q1: Nita Strauss performs National Anthem/Pete Dunne vs. KUSHIDA – 700,000 viewers, 261,000 in 18-49
Q2: End of Dunne vs. KUSHDA, Gauntlet Eliminator Match – 677,000 viewers (down 23,000), 235,000 in 18-49 (down 26,000)
Q3: End of Gauntlet Eliminator match – 766,000 viewers (up 89,000), 269,000 in 18-49 (up 34,000)
Q4: Tommaso Ciampa vs. WALTER – 737,000 viewers (down 29,000), 263,000 in 18-49 (down 6,000)
Q5: End of WALTER vs. Ciampa – 817,000 viewers (up 80,000), 282,000 in 18-49 (up 19,000)
Q6: MSK vs. Grizzled Young Veterans vs. Legado del Fantasma – 737,000 viewers (down 80,000), 262,000 in 18-49 (down 20,000)
Q7: End of MSK vs. Grizzled Young Veterans vs. Legado del Fantasma – 738,000 viewers (up 1,000), 281,000 in 18-49 (up 19,000)
Q8: Io Shirai vs. Raquel Gonzalez – 858,000 viewers (up 120,000), 349,000 in 18-49 (up 68,000)
Overrun (unopposed): End of Shirai vs. Gonzalez – 1,105,000 viewers (up 247,000), 448,000 in 18-49 (up 99,000)


----------



## Mike E

Wow man, that overrun really helped NXT. Night 1 and 2 of stand and deliver were fantastic, when it comes to the actual wrestling matches.


----------



## TD Stinger

Quite the jump from the end of Dynamite to the overrun on NXT (247,000). Now, that was for a big women's title match so that number is higher than normal. But it look as if there's at least a decent number of people who will help viewership on both sides now that there's no more "war" (slap fight).

With both shows having their own night now, I would like to think that the viewership of both shows would go up by a 100k so consistently.

I would like to think NXT should start doing around 750 and AEW 850k consistently.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Mate you really need to stop pretending that your opinion is some objective fact, he may not like AEW but his opinion isn't nonsensical at all, it's his opinion. Just like it's your OPINION that AEW I good, not a fact


The show being “terrible” is still a nonsensical take, and that’s just the truth


----------



## Geeee

I feel like the last Takeover on a Wednesday won total viewers AND demo. Plus, I think the total viewers were close to 900k. Am I misremembering this?

Overall this seems like a way below average number of viewers watching Wednesday wrestling when you'd think it would be higher


----------



## DammitChrist

Okay, the fact that the women’s main event for Night 1 of NXT TakeOver: Stand & Deliver got over a million viewers (unopposed) gives me more hope that both shows have the potential to reach over a million in terms of viewership soon. 

The growth won’t be immediate realistically though. It’ll take some time to see numbers rise to that point (as long as both shows continue to be good).


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

3venflow said:


> Q1: Hangman Page vs. Max Caster – 691,000 viewers, 370,000 in 18-49
> Q2: Death Triangle & Best Friends segment/Inner Circle promo – 728,000 viewers (up 37,000), 407,000 in 18-49 (up 37,000)
> Q3: Christian Cage & Taz segment/Jurassic Express vs. Bear Country – 640,000 viewers (down 88,000), 363,000 in 18-49 (down 44,000)
> Q4: End of Jurassic Express vs. Bear Country/QT Marshall promo/Sting & Lance Archer promo/Team Taz segment – 632,000 viewers (down 8,000), 338,000 in 18-49 (down 25,000)
> Q5: Darby Allin vs. JD Drake – 620,000 viewers (down 12,000), 337,000 in 18-49 (down 1,000)
> Q6: The Pinnacle, Inner Circle & Mike Tyson segment/Britt Baker promo/Tay Conti vs. The Bunny – 732,000 viewers (up 112,000), 366,000 in 18-49 (up 29,000)
> Q7: End of Conti vs. Bunny/Jon Moxley & The Young Bucks vs. Kenny Omega & The Good Brothers – 741,000 viewers (up 9,000), 369,000 in 18-49 (up 3,000)
> Q8: End of Moxley & Young Bucks vs. Omega & Good Brothers/Young Bucks heel turn – 724,000 viewers (down 17,000), 376,000 in 18-49 (up 7,000)
> 
> Q1: Nita Strauss performs National Anthem/Pete Dunne vs. KUSHIDA – 700,000 viewers, 261,000 in 18-49
> Q2: End of Dunne vs. KUSHDA, Gauntlet Eliminator Match – 677,000 viewers (down 23,000), 235,000 in 18-49 (down 26,000)
> Q3: End of Gauntlet Eliminator match – 766,000 viewers (up 89,000), 269,000 in 18-49 (up 34,000)
> Q4: Tommaso Ciampa vs. WALTER – 737,000 viewers (down 29,000), 263,000 in 18-49 (down 6,000)
> Q5: End of WALTER vs. Ciampa – 817,000 viewers (up 80,000), 282,000 in 18-49 (up 19,000)
> Q6: MSK vs. Grizzled Young Veterans vs. Legado del Fantasma – 737,000 viewers (down 80,000), 262,000 in 18-49 (down 20,000)
> Q7: End of MSK vs. Grizzled Young Veterans vs. Legado del Fantasma – 738,000 viewers (up 1,000), 281,000 in 18-49 (up 19,000)
> Q8: Io Shirai vs. Raquel Gonzalez – 858,000 viewers (up 120,000), 349,000 in 18-49 (up 68,000)
> Overrun (unopposed): End of Shirai vs. Gonzalez – 1,105,000 viewers (up 247,000), 448,000 in 18-49 (up 99,000)


Tay vs Bunny was the highest rating for AEW and rightfully so lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Q1: Hangman Page vs. Max Caster – 691,000 viewers, 370,000 in 18-49
> Q2: Death Triangle & Best Friends segment/Inner Circle promo – 728,000 viewers (up 37,000), 407,000 in 18-49 (up 37,000)
> Q3: Christian Cage & Taz segment/Jurassic Express vs. Bear Country – 640,000 viewers (down 88,000), 363,000 in 18-49 (down 44,000)
> Q4: End of Jurassic Express vs. Bear Country/QT Marshall promo/Sting & Lance Archer promo/Team Taz segment – 632,000 viewers (down 8,000), 338,000 in 18-49 (down 25,000)
> Q5: Darby Allin vs. JD Drake – 620,000 viewers (down 12,000), 337,000 in 18-49 (down 1,000)
> Q6: The Pinnacle, Inner Circle & Mike Tyson segment/Britt Baker promo/Tay Conti vs. The Bunny – 732,000 viewers (up 112,000), 366,000 in 18-49 (up 29,000)
> Q7: End of Conti vs. Bunny/Jon Moxley & The Young Bucks vs. Kenny Omega & The Good Brothers – 741,000 viewers (up 9,000), 369,000 in 18-49 (up 3,000)
> Q8: End of Moxley & Young Bucks vs. Omega & Good Brothers/Young Bucks heel turn – 724,000 viewers (down 17,000), 376,000 in 18-49 (up 7,000)
> 
> Q1: Nita Strauss performs National Anthem/Pete Dunne vs. KUSHIDA – 700,000 viewers, 261,000 in 18-49
> Q2: End of Dunne vs. KUSHDA, Gauntlet Eliminator Match – 677,000 viewers (down 23,000), 235,000 in 18-49 (down 26,000)
> Q3: End of Gauntlet Eliminator match – 766,000 viewers (up 89,000), 269,000 in 18-49 (up 34,000)
> Q4: Tommaso Ciampa vs. WALTER – 737,000 viewers (down 29,000), 263,000 in 18-49 (down 6,000)
> Q5: End of WALTER vs. Ciampa – 817,000 viewers (up 80,000), 282,000 in 18-49 (up 19,000)
> Q6: MSK vs. Grizzled Young Veterans vs. Legado del Fantasma – 737,000 viewers (down 80,000), 262,000 in 18-49 (down 20,000)
> Q7: End of MSK vs. Grizzled Young Veterans vs. Legado del Fantasma – 738,000 viewers (up 1,000), 281,000 in 18-49 (up 19,000)
> Q8: Io Shirai vs. Raquel Gonzalez – 858,000 viewers (up 120,000), 349,000 in 18-49 (up 68,000)
> Overrun (unopposed): End of Shirai vs. Gonzalez – 1,105,000 viewers (up 247,000), 448,000 in 18-49 (up 99,000)


that overrun is a great example of the shared audience

ie> 247k


----------



## rbl85

Interesting that AEW finished with more viewers than the Q1.

Because even i had to watch Io Shirai match.


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> that overrun is a great example of the shared audience
> 
> ie> 247k


Only from AEW to NXT but we don't know how many people from NXT would watch AEW since AEW never did any overrun.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> Only from AEW to NXT but we don't know how many people from NXT would watch AEW since AEW never did any overrun.


yup, true

but i’m thinking that at least is the group of people switching between channels - so, normal expected raise weekly should be half that maybe?


----------



## Dark Emperor

DammitChrist said:


> Okay, the fact that the women’s main event for Night 1 of NXT TakeOver: Stand & Deliver got over a million viewers (unopposed) gives me more hope that both shows have the potential to reach over a million in terms of viewership soon.
> 
> The growth won’t be immediate realistically though. It’ll take some time to see numbers rise to that point (as long as both shows continue to be good).


It's not uncommon for a segment to get over 1m viewers. The Q1 segment after Adam Cole turned on Kyle O'Reilly couple of months back got over 1m for NXT as well. For AEW, i'm sure Shaq match did over 1m.

However they are not going get 1m for the whole show consistently anytime soon. Neither shows have been anywhere close to doing this in last 6 months apart from Shaq show which is a one off.


----------



## kingfrass44

Geert Wilders said:


> Agreed. But WWE is still a very lucrative business. I believe vince does not care about viewer numbers. It is about how much money is made.
> 
> also the comparison of today’s numbers and numbers 10 + years ago is irrelevant. DVR, online streaming services, YouTube. All these things have made it very easy to pick and choose what and when to watch shows. I believe we need to start looking at other indicators of popularity.


You are wrong
DVR not important


----------



## RainmakerV2

3venflow said:


> Tyson saving Jericho regained 113,000 viewers for AEW, taking it up to 732k, a huge spike on the previous segment.
> 
> Jericho's promo was a rare case of Q2 gaining on Q1, with a total of 728,000 (up 33k).
> 
> Highest quarter of the show? I'm dumbfounded by this after the tag version killed ratings last week, but it was Tay Conti vs. The Bunny with 741,000 viewers.


People enjoy hot chicks showing their ass. Shocker.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> *People enjoy hot chicks showing their ass. Shocker.*


You can't say that this way silly you....

They only watched them for their wrestling abilities. hum hum.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> This long drivel here is just laughable, especially about the nonsensical part about the TV program being “awful”, or that pathetic opening to your post where you blatantly antagonize a great number of wrestling fans who actually do appreciate the good product (which pretty much just disqualified the rest of your lengthy post by using that as your opener) :lol


It’s getting to a point that this is REALLY annoying. Of all the people accused of “stating their opinion as fact,” you make the most baseless posts just pissing all over other people’s well-thought out posts.

That user explained WHY they think everything they do. You NEVER have the gumption.

I’ve heard people call it a gimmick, but it should really be called out more. It’s nowhere near as funny as YamchaRocks.



Alright_Mate said:


> Tay’s booty was the highlight of the ep, so I’m not surprised tbf.


Not knocking Tay, but it’s always a bit of a bad omen when a woman’s ass gets more sincere attention than most of your shit.

It’s the Sable Principle. She wasn’t over because she was any sort of talent. And people take her being the second biggest ratings draw as sign she was this giant star. Really, a lot of the other stuff just wasn’t as over as people choose to remember.

There’s also the Novelty Principle: Base viewers + anomalous ones.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> It’s getting to a point that this is REALLY annoying. Of all the people accused of “stating their opinion as fact,” you make the most baseless posts just pissing all over other people’s well-thought out posts.
> 
> That user explained WHY they think everything they do. You NEVER have the gumption.
> 
> I’ve heard people call it a gimmick, but it should really be called out more. It’s nowhere near as funny as YamchaRocks.


There is no gimmick here at all. Why are you even lying here? :lol

It was a poorly thought-out, delusional post that deserved to be invalidated considering the bad take, especially since the shows have mostly delivered. Anyway, since you brought it up, your sense of humor should be probably be questioned since he is not funny at all whatsoever.

Honestly, just admit that you want everyone on here to be negative, and to have the same (poor) opinions as yours. It's less embarrassing this way, dude. It's not my fault that you get annoyed by the passionate fans so easily.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> There is no gimmick here at all. Why are you even lying here? :lol
> 
> It was a poorly thought-out, delusional post that deserved to be invalidated considering the bad take, especially since the shows have mostly delivered. Anyway, since you brought it up, your sense of humor should be probably be questioned since he is not funny at all whatsoever.
> 
> Honestly, just admit that you want everyone on here to be negative, and to have the same (poor) opinions as yours. It's less embarrassing this way, dude. It's not my fault that you get annoyed by the passionate fans so easily.


There is nothing in here. You call his post “delusional.” Why? You say the recent shows have “delivered.” How? You don’t have any meat behind what you’re saying.


----------



## El Hammerstone

The Wood said:


> There is nothing in here. You call his post “delusional.” Why? You say the recent shows have “delivered.” How? You don’t have any meat behind what you’re saying.


Actually, there IS meat behind what I'm saying 😛, and the shows HAVE delivered, continue being negative and delusional 🤣

Sorry, just thought I'd save him the time and effort


----------



## tower_

I have stopped watching weekly although a friend did message me around 8:30 on Wednesday so I put TNT on. I didnt really follow it but did have it on in the background. The first time I really turned my head was after the show ended and the ONE MMA show came on.

At this point I'm pretty blackpilled about the future of wrestling. I think it's just been subsumed by MMA. ONE - a *THIRD TIER* MMA program - had better production, better intros, better promos and of course better fights than any wrestling program can put on today. The death of kayfabe was the death of wrestling. I wish all this debate about Moxley or Omega or Orange Cassidy or womens wrestling mattered but it really doesnt, youre fighting over a couple hundred thousand people at best


----------



## The Wood

El Hammerstone said:


> Actually, there IS meat behind what I'm saying 😛, and the shows HAVE delivered, continue being negative and delusional 🤣
> 
> Sorry, just thought I'd save him the time and effort


Holy shit, that was so spot-on, I thought for a second that DammitChrist was an El Hammerstone alt and felt completely taken in.


----------



## RapShepard

This forums terrible opinions on what a good ass is never ceases to amaze me lol.


----------



## One Shed

RapShepard said:


> This forums terrible opinions on what a good ass is never ceases to amaze me lol.


Sounds threadworthy


----------



## ProjectGargano

tower_ said:


> I have stopped watching weekly although a friend did message me around 8:30 on Wednesday so I put TNT on. I didnt really follow it but did have it on in the background. The first time I really turned my head was after the show ended and the ONE MMA show came on.
> 
> At this point I'm pretty blackpilled about the future of wrestling. I think it's just been subsumed by MMA. ONE - a *THIRD TIER* MMA program - had better production, better intros, better promos and of course better fights than any wrestling program can put on today. The death of kayfabe was the death of wrestling. I wish all this debate about Moxley or Omega or Orange Cassidy or womens wrestling mattered but it really doesnt, youre fighting over a couple hundred thousand people at best


One will be a flop. Only 186k with some good names they had in the card? Bellator has even less than that. Only UFC can draw good numbers.


----------



## 3venflow

ONE debut show only beat IMPACT by 28,000 viewers this week, don't think that's going to be the next big thing. 😂

Bellator also does shit ratings.

People don't realise how well AEW is doing for TNT, it's one of their top ranking shows in the cable charts and is good value for money.

Even if the new AEW one-hour show does something like 400,000 and a .18 demo, it'll probably be a good investment for them.









ONE Championship’s TNT debut falls flat in ratings


ONE was ranked 88th in cable, despite a very strong lead-in from AEW.




www.bloodyelbow.com


----------



## The Wood

ProjectGargano said:


> One will be a flop. Only 186k with some good names they had in the card? Bellator has even less than that. Only UFC can draw good numbers.


It depends on whether they want ONE to be successful, and whether they value it having a stronger audience.

I’m pretty sure MMA fans have a better rep than wrestling fans. If TNT wants to be able to cater to that target audience, they might end up blaming the lead-in. This happens in television.

It’s not always the sheer size of your audience. It’s how much that audience is desirable to advertisers. These are *not* power levels. Having 200k people watch hockey or whatever on Wednesday nights is more valuable to the USA Network than having 600k wrestling fans. And WWE know it too, so they weren’t going to fuck with that shit.

If TNT decides that 150k MMA fans, later at night, are more valuable than 600k wrestling fans, then you might see the lead-in changed. Or someone might even have the bright idea of swapping them around.

These aren’t _predictions_ by the way. Someone like Garty will try and misquote me and say that I “predicted” this. But everyone talking black-and-white about this like AEW is some juggernaut and ONE is an immediate failure is kind of missing a lot of caveats.


----------



## RapShepard

The Wood said:


> It depends on whether they want ONE to be successful, and whether they value it having a stronger audience.
> 
> I’m pretty sure MMA fans have a better rep than wrestling fans. If TNT wants to be able to cater to that target audience, they might end up blaming the lead-in. This happens in television.
> 
> It’s not always the sheer size of your audience. It’s how much that audience is desirable to advertisers. These are *not* power levels. Having 200k people watch hockey or whatever on Wednesday nights is more valuable to the USA Network than having 600k wrestling fans. And WWE know it too, so they weren’t going to fuck with that shit.
> 
> If TNT decides that 150k MMA fans, later at night, are more valuable than 600k wrestling fans, then you might see the lead-in changed. Or someone might even have the bright idea of swapping them around.
> 
> These aren’t _predictions_ by the way. Someone like Garty will try and misquote me and say that I “predicted” this. But everyone talking black-and-white about this like AEW is some juggernaut and ONE is an immediate failure is kind of missing a lot of caveats.


One is going to have little to no advertising power in the US. It's an Asian based promotion with little to no star power in the states. Even among hardcore MMA fans and MMA sites One events get little to no traction. Rest assured AEW is and will be far more important to TNT for the foreseeable future barring some all time scandal happening with AEW. One isn't going to be getting premium advertisers because it's still fighting and it barely gets viewers.


----------



## The Wood

RapShepard said:


> One is going to have little to no advertising power in the US. It's an Asian based promotion with little to no star power in the states. Even among hardcore MMA fans and MMA sites One events get little to no traction. Rest assured AEW is and will be far more important to TNT for the foreseeable future barring some all time scandal happening with AEW. One isn't going to be getting premium advertisers because it's still fighting and it barely gets viewers.


I’ll take your word on that, since I trust you know what you’re talking about. I don’t follow MMA much at all. As a general overarching point, I stand by it — the idea that you’ve got bigger numbers mean you’re more valuable is missing the point. But I assume you’re right in the specifics in this case.


----------



## RapShepard

The Wood said:


> I’ll take your word on that, since I trust you know what you’re talking about. I don’t follow MMA much at all. As a general overarching point, I stand by it — the idea that you’ve got bigger numbers mean you’re more valuable is missing the point. But I assume you’re right in the specifics in this case.


Yeah MMA is very parallel to pro wrestling in the promotions viability. 

UFC- like WWE is the clear cut top dog with the biggest TV deals and most attractive to advertisers due to brand recognition.

Bellator- is the equivalent to current AEW or old school TNA. Distant 2nd, get a good mix of former UFC stars and future stars. Decent enough TV deals and advertiser attractiveness to stay a float. 

PFL- is the 3rd biggest promotion and might as well be current day Impact minus the brand recognition. Really just lucky they have celebrity backers and a small ESPN deal hoping it'll blow up. They run on tournament formats. Have a couple of former UFC and Bellator stars past their prime.

One and Rizin- are the top asian promotions. But neither are NJPW type big. They're like what ever the 3rd and 4th big Asian promotions are.

Invicta- is an all female promotion similar to stardom. Biggest strength is they air on UFC fight pass.


----------



## Wolf Mark

The Wood said:


> Raw scores about double what AEW does in the alleged key demo. And almost half the AEW is over 50. It’s a couple of 49 year olds that drags their median down.


Yea Even Uncle Dave the biggest AEW mark outthere revealed that AEW's viewer's average age is 47.


----------



## The Wood

Thanks for the breakdown, Rap. I get as far down as UFC and Bellator before I can’t name any other company. Have heard of Invicta and Rizin through online discussions about wrestling, but have no clue what PFL even stands for. Professional Fighting League? I could Google it pretty easy, but just demonstrating my lack of awareness, lol. 



Wolf Mark said:


> Yea Even Uncle Dave the biggest AEW mark outthere revealed that AEW's viewer's average age is 47.


People need get off this idea that the AEW fan is super-young.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> The show being “terrible” is still a nonsensical take, and that’s just the truth


Not really mate, people have different standards and like different things.


----------



## qntntgood

Wolf Mark said:


> Yea Even Uncle Dave the biggest AEW mark outthere revealed that AEW's viewer's average age is 47.


----------



## The Wood

“Who is this for?!” is a question I often hear my soul scream when contemplating AEW programming.


----------



## qntntgood

The Wood said:


> “Who is this for?!” is a question I often hear my soul scream when contemplating AEW programming.


Exactly,notice they don't talk about the 18 to 49 year old demo anymore on TV.


----------



## .christopher.

I didn't realise the average age was so old. They're not creating new fans at all it seems.

With all the stupid, nonsensical, immature shit they do for at least 90% of every episode, I assumed they were catering towards the younger fans who had no idea what a legitimately good, coherent wrestling show looked like, but they're doing all the silly stuff they do and are mainly only attracting near 50 year olds who have most likely seen good, coherent wrestling shows?

This company is arse backwards.


----------



## The Wood

I swear it’s mainly people with rose-coloured glasses who loved the Attitude era and hates that they don’t have any more friends that watch wrestling. It’s an anti-Vince movement, combined with people who will watch anything or are at least willing to give anything a go.

They skate by because they aren’t Vince and a lot of the people who still watch wrestling have pretty low standards for that sort of thing, because they’re used to it. And I’m not trying to mock anyone who likes it — you have reasonable people like Rap, bdon, Chan, PhenomenalOne1 (sorry if I got that user name wrong) who give AEW a very good chance. They’re way more patient than me, haha.

But more and more of them are souring. I was pretty surprised to see bdon say he doesn’t give a shit about much of the show recently. The goodwill for being “new” isn’t going to last forever. I think people make the mistake that the ratings they get are the number of people ENJOYING the show.

Some people genuinely like it. Fair play. Some people think it is hit and miss. Some people are willing it onwards. Others flat-out don’t and are just desperate for anything else to work. Others are just downright delusional about it. But a lot of those camps are in danger of switching off. Especially the ones that don’t like it, think it is hit and miss, or are just HOPING it gets good soon. But even the “loyalists” can have their faith challenged. A lot of people loyal to wrestling give up when they get their heart broken enough times.


----------



## Randy Lahey

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> Tay vs Bunny was the highest rating for AEW and rightfully so lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I knew that would happen. When I saw the lineup last week, I wrote in the thread I'll tune in for Conti/Bunny and nothing else really stuck on on the show. Conti, Bunny, Anna Jay, Brit Baker, Penelope Ford are all attractive women, and attractive women are the ONLY type of women that can draw ratings. Casual male audience doesn't care about female wrestling. They do care about babes. This is where AEW's women division is better than WWE. Looks. Looks matter. 

If TK can just keep booking the babes, and forget the japanese women or the monsters like Nyla, - he'll have a fine division that keeps male interest.


----------



## DammitChrist

El Hammerstone said:


> Actually, there IS meat behind what I'm saying 😛, and the shows HAVE delivered, continue being negative and delusional 🤣


Thank you for posting an actual truthful comment for once on here. 

There's a first time for everything :bjpenn


----------



## Kentucky34

Let me ask the AEW a basic question. 

Why has Dynamite lost over half its audience since its debut episode?


----------



## The Wood

Kentucky34 said:


> Let me ask the AEW a basic question.
> 
> Why has Dynamite lost over half its audience since its debut episode?


People were hungry for something else. Not ANYTHING else.


----------



## Kentucky34

The Wood said:


> People were hungry for something else. Not ANYTHING else.


They have blown a golden opportunity. 

They will be in the same position as TNA are now in 5 years time.


----------



## The Wood

It really depends on where live entertainment and rights fees are when the AEW deal is up, but I doubt they are bigger.


----------



## Mister Sinister

The Wood said:


> “Who is this for?!” is a question I often hear my soul scream when contemplating AEW programming.


Clearly it's for skater transexuals and ECW fans in their 40s.


----------



## The Wood

Mister Sinister said:


> Clearly it's for skater transexuals and ECW fans in their 40s.


Not a fan of the word “transsexuals,” but I know where you’re going with them trying out a bit of “woke capitalism.” I think ECW fans in their 40’s is the perfect description for what I was reaching for. You can almost feel them trying really hard to _not_ chant “You fucked up!” sometimes.


----------



## CM Buck

@DammitChrist and @The Wood take this to the wood rant thread


----------



## RLM

AEW only got 688,000 with Tyson?!?!

Takeover or no Takeover it should’ve beaten NXT.

If they get 688,000 with Tyson imagine next week without him?

They’ll get a slight bump without NXT but if they don’t get over a million with the ever decreasing ratings they have, then we have to Objectively stick a fork in AEW because they’d be done as a mainstream promotion.

If they do not get 1 million or more viewers then it’s over for AEW.

Anyone who’s objective and wants to see this company succeed knows this.


----------



## Wolf Mark

The Wood said:


> I swear it’s mainly people with rose-coloured glasses who loved the Attitude era and hates that they don’t have any more friends that watch wrestling. It’s an anti-Vince movement, combined with people who will watch anything or are at least willing to give anything a go.
> 
> They skate by because they aren’t Vince and a lot of the people who still watch wrestling have pretty low standards for that sort of thing, because they’re used to it. And I’m not trying to mock anyone who likes it — you have reasonable people like Rap, bdon, Chan, PhenomenalOne1 (sorry if I got that user name wrong) who give AEW a very good chance. They’re way more patient than me, haha.
> 
> But more and more of them are souring. I was pretty surprised to see bdon say he doesn’t give a shit about much of the show recently. The goodwill for being “new” isn’t going to last forever. I think people make the mistake that the ratings they get are the number of people ENJOYING the show.
> 
> Some people genuinely like it. Fair play. Some people think it is hit and miss. Some people are willing it onwards. Others flat-out don’t and are just desperate for anything else to work. Others are just downright delusional about it. But a lot of those camps are in danger of switching off. Especially the ones that don’t like it, think it is hit and miss, or are just HOPING it gets good soon. But even the “loyalists” can have their faith challenged. A lot of people loyal to wrestling give up when they get their heart broken enough times.


You should see the forum I used to go to, these guys are completely in love with AEW, they think everything they do is great, even genius. The only thing they hate about AEW the women division and Cody(esp since he defeated Brodie Lee). It's an absolute joke to read these posts, these people live in their own echo chamber. It's like a cult. When Jericho was feuding with Orange Cassidy, it was the equivalent of Rock-Austin to them. With OC being their messiah and the greatest ever. When someone from the outside of the company critique AEW, the insane mode level is activated and the person in question suddenly become a demon. The cult comes out in full force. They justify every damn mistakes. The only time I finally saw a few of them being negative by a AEW decision was the whole Christian and "big surprise" thing at the last PPV. Which leads directly to Dynamite falling like crazy in the ratings afterwards which shows to me the crack in the armor of the diehards is starting to show. A lot of them are losing faith.

Not saying people cannot like the shows or the content, I'm just giving an example of a place that absolutely worship AEW and that even there the cracks are coming in. They have to do better. They have to bring someone new and get a better more interesting vision.


----------



## ProjectGargano

RLM said:


> AEW only got 688,000 with Tyson?!?!
> 
> Takeover or no Takeover it should’ve beaten NXT.
> 
> If they get 688,000 with Tyson imagine next week without him?
> 
> They’ll get a slight bump without NXT but if they don’t get over a million with the ever decreasing ratings they have, then we have to Objectively stick a fork in AEW because they’d be done as a mainstream promotion.
> 
> If they do not get 1 million or more viewers then it’s over for AEW.
> 
> Anyone who’s objective and wants to see this company succeed knows this.


Do you even see AEW? Mike Tyson will be at the next episode aswell.


----------



## VIP86

The Wood said:


> It’s an anti-Vince movement


not every anti-Vince person loves everything AEW is doing

i'm definitely a hardcore anti-Vince
but i still cringe at the indy level shows that AEW is presenting
because over-all i'm anti-stupidity, anti-blindly kissing asses


The Wood said:


> A lot of people loyal to wrestling give up when they get their heart broken enough times.


and that is how exactly i feel about AEW
i feel cheated, this is not what they promised people "sports based presentation"

and apparently more people are realising this
the ratings after the revolution show proves this
when you lie to people and don't deliver, you have to expect the consequences


----------



## YamchaRocks

this rating just shows that fans of good wrestling are fewer than edgy Attitude Era marks tbh, nothing more. It's not AEW's fault that only 700k fans can recognize and appreciate a genuinely amazing wrestling show🙂


----------



## Mr316

YamchaRocks said:


> this rating just shows that fans of good wrestling are fewer than edgy Attitude Era marks tbh, nothing more. It's not AEW's fault that only 700k fans can recognize and appreciate a genuinely amazing wrestling show🙂


😂 ...but it’s not good. Maybe you think it’s good...but it’s not good.


----------



## YamchaRocks

The Wood said:


> It really depends on where live entertainment and rights fees are when the AEW deal is up, but I doubt they are bigger.


Thankfully it's not up to senselessly negative people like you whether or not AEW will be renewed tbh 🙂


----------



## YamchaRocks

Mr316 said:


> 😂 ...but it’s not good. Maybe you think it’s good...but it’s not good.


That's a terrible take considering the show is actually entertaining top to bottom 😛


----------



## La Parka

YamchaRocks said:


> That's a terrible take considering the show is actually entertaining top to bottom 😛


Your trolling / parody of a certain member is actually brilliant at this point.


----------



## The Wood

YamchaRocks said:


> Thankfully it's not up to senselessly negative people like you whether or not AEW will be renewed tbh 🙂


Luckily it will be up to network executives, who are known for their for their endless low-stake positivism.


----------



## YamchaRocks

The Wood said:


> Luckily it will be up to network executives, who are known for their for their endless low-stake positivism.


Which once again is great news for AEW and its fans tbh, since TNT is happy with great numbers Dynamite is drawing 🙂


----------



## DammitChrist

Wolf Mark said:


> You should see the forum I used to go to, these guys are completely in love with AEW, they think everything they do is great, even genius. The only thing they hate about AEW the women division and Cody(esp since he defeated Brodie Lee). It's an absolute joke to read these posts, these people live in their own echo chamber. It's like a cult. When Jericho was feuding with Orange Cassidy, it was the equivalent of Rock-Austin to them. With OC being their messiah and the greatest ever. When someone from the outside of the company critique AEW, the insane mode level is activated and the person in question suddenly become a demon. The cult comes out in full force. They justify every damn mistakes. The only time I finally saw a few of them being negative by a AEW decision was the whole Christian and "big surprise" thing at the last PPV. Which leads directly to Dynamite falling like crazy in the ratings afterwards which shows to me the crack in the armor of the diehards is starting to show. A lot of them are losing faith.
> 
> Not saying people cannot like the shows or the content, I'm just giving an example of a place that absolutely worship AEW and that even there the cracks are coming in. They have to do better. They have to bring someone new and get a better more interesting vision.


I guess that you must have missed the part where this place was basically made up of a negative cult in late-2020 along with the ridiculous pessimism on here lately. Otherwise, you would’ve realized how absurd your take is about the passionate fans. 

That’s without even mentioning you shamelessly downplaying Orange Cassidy as a *popular* overall talent (who should absolutely get TV time still).


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> I guess that you must have missed the part where this place was basically made up of a negative cult in late-2020 along with the ridiculous pessimism on here lately. Otherwise, you would’ve realized how absurd your take is about the passionate fans.
> 
> That’s without even mentioning you shamelessly downplaying Orange Cassidy as a *popular* overall talent (who should absolutely get TV time still).


Is WWE popular?


----------



## shandcraig

People have it so backwards. Reason why WWE has lost so many fans is because they think happy go lucky cookie cutter is main stream. It's simply not true and aew is doing the same.reality is what is popular is actually the opposite and that's why those are the only popular type shows when it comes to adult oriented content.

Entire industry in the states is stuck in this fake pretty boy cookie cutter imagine that is simply not appealing. All the fans that gave up om wrestling will tell you the same reason over and over. Characters are lame and the shows seem cheesy.

It's not projecting real feel to the concept of fighting with compelling characters. Everyone's desperate to play their boring self. People don't watch shows to watch ordinary people and that's the truth


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Mr316 said:


> 😂 ...but it’s not good. Maybe you think it’s good...but it’s not good.


Yet you’re still watching it, right? Right? Otherwise how could you be here telling us all how good it isn’t and expect anybody to believe you. I only say that because I don’t think WWE is any good, for example, and so I did the logical thing and stopped watching it. Not only that, I don’t waste my time in the WWE section spewing everything I hate about it to the people who still find enough that’s entertaining to them to still be watching it.


----------



## The Wood

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Yet you’re still watching it, right? Right? Otherwise how could you be here telling us all how good it isn’t and expect anybody to believe you. I only say that because I don’t think WWE is any good, for example, and so I did the logical thing and stopped watching it. Not only that, I don’t waste my time in the WWE section spewing everything I hate about it to the people who still find enough that’s entertaining to them to still be watching it.


Some people don’t want to give up hope. The way you do things isn’t necessarily the model other people should follow for themselves.


----------



## Garty

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Yet you’re still watching it, right? Right? Otherwise how could you be here telling us all how good it isn’t and expect anybody to believe you. I only say that because I don’t think WWE is any good, for example, and so I did the logical thing and stopped watching it. Not only that, I don’t waste my time in the WWE section spewing everything I hate about it to the people who still find enough that’s entertaining to them to still be watching it.


You need to come around a little more, but I can completely understand why you're not.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

Everyone should watch this. EVERYONE. Michael Valente actually works in TV so if you want to get the facts and not assumptions he is a good place to start.


----------



## The Wood

ripcitydisciple said:


> Everyone should watch this. EVERYONE. Michael Valente actually works in TV so if you want to get the facts and not assumptions he is a good place to start.


A Google search of his name comes up with nothing. You are one of the most biased people on these forum. I am willing to bet this just says the stuff that confirms your bias.

EDIT: Lol, clicked on the bio and it’s some dude from his bedroom and another guy with a bad camera and a Bullet Club shirt. Hard pass.


----------



## rbl85

ripcitydisciple said:


> Everyone should watch this. EVERYONE. Michael Valente actually works in TV so if you want to get the facts and not assumptions he is a good place to start.


Oh so that means that many people clash on this topic for nothing ?


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Ratings arguments are not going to die down now. If anything they’re going to heat up, because neither show has the other one to blame now. I guarantee you the armchair experts will be crawling out of the woodwork in this dump 4:00 pm Thursday, as soon as they learn that Dynamite didn’t hit a million viewers.


----------



## Whoanma

Reggie Dunlop said:


> I guarantee you the armchair experts will be crawling out of the woodwork in this dump 4:00 pm Thursday, as soon as they learn that Dynamite didn’t hit a million viewers.


----------



## DammitChrist

The reasonable explanations won't stop either because we're still late into the pandemic wth limited crowds and with the same old venue since last year, so you're going to have to deal with those valid counterarguments for a while longer


----------



## The Wood

People stuck at home. Totally makes sense that people don’t want to watch television.


----------



## Prosper

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Ratings arguments are not going to die down now. If anything they’re going to heat up, because neither show has the other one to blame now. I guarantee you the armchair experts will be crawling out of the woodwork in this dump 4:00 pm Thursday, as soon as they learn that Dynamite didn’t hit a million viewers.


Of course not. These people have their statements and posts already written in stone ready to go armpits sweating in anticipation. "I canTTTT waiittt to provEEE AEdUBBYYA FANss wrong MAtteee!!!"

I'm expecting 850K next week with a steady climb towards a million. As long as the cards stay as strong as they are for this week's show.


----------



## One Shed

Prosper said:


> Of course not. These people have their statements and posts already written in stone ready to go armpits sweating in anticipation. "I canTTTT waiittt to provEEE AEdUBBYYA FANss wrong MAtteee!!!"
> 
> I'm expecting 850K next week with a steady climb towards a million. As long as the cards stay as strong as they are for this week's show.


I am expecting 850K as well, but I expect that number will go down after, not up. I know you have been a fan of the shows they have put on this year but I see them as a decline in quality. The declining ratings this year back me up too so I know I am not alone. They have a lot they need to change and I hope they do.


----------



## La Parka

The Wood said:


> People stuck at home. Totally makes sense that people don’t want to watch television.


Indeed.

When concerts, sporting events, movie theatres, bars, shopping malls open up and the covid virus is manageable. I fully expect people to stay home and watch the dub.


----------



## Prosper

Two Sheds said:


> I am expecting 850K as well, but I expect that number will go down after, not up. I know you have been a fan of the shows they have put on this year but I see them as a decline in quality. The declining ratings this year back me up too so I know I am not alone. They have a lot they need to change and I hope they do.


The pandemic shows were way worse than the quality in 2021 but ratings were more consistent than they have been this year. I'm kind of surprised at that honestly given my opinion on the shows in 2021. The cable people are just a segment of the overall audience and to me it seems like those people just preferred other guys on top. Guys that they are used to watching in WWE such as Moxley, Cody, and Jericho. But there needed to be transition eventually. Now that Omega, the Bucks, Pinnacle are on top, it doesn't seem like they are as interested at the moment. So just try something different or pivot in another direction. 

I do see things turning for the better. Just get that Impact gold on Omega and book him in a high profile title program. Enough of the Bullet Club drama for a while. Things will always be up and down that way though. Some storylines will have mass appeal and some won't. Live crowds really do hurt the experience though. After watching Mania, it was a re-affirmation as to why I can see some people just deciding not to continue watching every week despite quality. Bianca/Sasha was incredible and doing that in front of no fans would have been a shame and a complete turn off for some you would think.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> People stuck at home. Totally makes sense that people don’t want to watch television.


Yep, it’s pretty obvious that those people are struggling with internet connections unfortunately :side


----------



## Mister Sinister

This is their best time to serve up a creative change and reset stories and flush these seven factions down the drain. It looks like they will just make all of the same mistakes they normally do-- open with a long Bucks match to showcase instead of delivering a lot of story advancement during the show and putting on matches with Miro, Christian, Sting, Paul Wight and Mox.


----------



## One Shed

Prosper said:


> The pandemic shows were way worse than the quality in 2021 but ratings were more consistent than they have been this year. I'm kind of surprised at that honestly given my opinion on the shows in 2021. The cable people are just a segment of the overall audience and to me it seems like those people just preferred other guys on top. Guys that they are used to watching in WWE such as Moxley, Cody, and Jericho. But there needed to be transition eventually. Now that Omega, the Bucks, Pinnacle are on top, it doesn't seem like they are as interested at the moment. So just try something different or pivot in another direction.
> 
> I do see things turning for the better. Just get that Impact gold on Omega and book him in a high profile title program. Enough of the Bullet Club drama for a while. Things will always be up and down that way though. Some storylines will have mass appeal and some won't. Live crowds really do hurt the experience though. After watching Mania, it was a re-affirmation as to why I can see some people just deciding not to continue watching every week despite quality. Bianca/Sasha was incredible and doing that in front of no fans would have been a shame and a complete turn off for some you would think.


Some of the pandemic shows were definitely way worse, but I see the 2021 shows as overall a consistent decline in quality vs the hit and miss nature of (especially) the early COVID shows.

I really liked where they were going with Kenny but as soon as the Buckaroos and their middle school treehouse club melodrama came in, it instantly became lame. What does the Impact title actually mean in 2021? Has anything been building to this? All we have been shown is Kenny is complaining that two kids did not choose him when he chose them. Instant channel changer. No one is interested in the Bucks because they absolutely suck. They are bad, wooden actors and look like the average dude walking down the street eating fries could easily beat them in a fight.

What do you mean by the Pinnacle is on top? They have zero heat after being geeked out two weeks in a row right after having come into existence. Nothing they have done has mattered to anyone, ever. They are also STARTING with the epic blowoff match. Where exactly does anyone go after that? The whole thing has been amazingly frustrating to watch. No one was taking the Inner Circle seriously after 2020 either. They needed to be built back up but if all they do is beat the new faction that no one has any reasons to care about yet, what does that say about them? No one involved knows how to book anything.

Schizophrenic booking.


----------



## Prosper

Two Sheds said:


> Some of the pandemic shows were definitely way worse, but I see the 2021 shows as overall a consistent decline in quality vs the hit and miss nature of (especially) the early COVID shows.
> 
> I really liked where they were going with Kenny but as soon as the Buckaroos and their middle school treehouse club melodrama came in, it instantly became lame. What does the Impact title actually mean in 2021? Has anything been building to this? All we have been shown is Kenny is complaining that two kids did not choose him when he chose them. Instant channel changer. No one is interested in the Bucks because they absolutely suck. They are bad, wooden actors and look like the average dude walking down the street eating fries could easily beat them in a fight.
> 
> What do you mean by the Pinnacle is on top? They have zero heat after being geeked out two weeks in a row right after having come into existence. Nothing they have done has mattered to anyone, ever. They are also STARTING with the epic blowoff match. Where exactly does anyone go after that? The whole thing has been amazingly frustrating to watch. No one was taking the Inner Circle seriously after 2020 either. They needed to be built back up but if all they do is beat the new faction that no one has any reasons to care about yet, what does that say about them? No one involved knows how to book anything.
> 
> Schizophrenic booking.


Lol there are a lot of people who are interested in the Bucks, simply due to the fact that there is an audience for their style of wrestling like it or not. I understand you hate them with a passion but you can't speak for everyone. The Impact title on its own doesn't mean anything given the state of Impact, but no one was looking at it that way when the Belt Collector thing started anyway. We were looking at the big picture, not the individual titles on their own. We all know that no titles matter on their own other than the AEW, WWE, and NJPW titles, just because these are the 3 major promotions. We've always known that. It was just an additional "Infinity stone on the glove" because of the simple fact that it is a World title from a different promotion. The AAA Title doesn't mean much to the American audience either but it's still a World Title that Kenny holds and Kenny Omega walking out with it around his shoulder still means something because of the angle itself. Same if he were to win the NWA Title from Aldis. The NJPW Title is definitely needed to bring everything together though. You're looking at the Kenny/Bucks thing like that because you don't like the Bucks, so it's impossible for you to see how it could be acceptable to others who may be fans of the duo. Kenny wants to reform the Bullet Club and stated that he started AEW with them implying that his decision not to go to WWE was because he "chose" them. I do agree that the melodrama needs to be turned down, and the acting was pretty bad I admit, but the story does make sense and it is somewhat long-term whether we think it is being executed properly or not. Now that the Bucks are full-blown heel (hopefully), we can now move forward to the next chapter of the overall story. It's just a beat to the story that continues to grow in multiple layers.

I thought you enjoyed the Inner Circle beatdown in the locker room? What made you change your mind? Jim Cornette after his rant about Pinnacle being "dead"? Lol come on @Two Sheds . If that's genuinely your personal opinion then fine. I disagree with both of your opinions on the Pinnacle/IC feud. The locker room beatdown was done to perfection and was highly entertaining. The Mike Tyson beatdown was also highly entertaining. People are not watching the show from one week to the next and thinking "this group is buried now", they're enjoying themselves and if they have been watching wrestling for a while they know that Pinnacle is fine and will get their heat back. I'm not saying that this is perfect booking, I would have done it differently. But the outrage is way blown out of proportion, especially from Jim Cornette who it seems that most have been quoting in that other thread about Blood and Guts "jumping the shark" after most were praising the beatdown the week before. Mike Tyson beat on Shawn Spears a bit so what? The video has over a million views already in the last 5 days, people enjoyed it. That doesn't mean that Pinnacle is dead as a group. Heat can easily be regained. You all went on and on about MJF being done and in one week got all his heat back. How much easier will it be now that he has a faction? One IC beatdown tomorrow with a scathing promo and they have all their heat back instantly.

Inner Circle are babyfaces now and wrestling fans only live in the present, meaning that everything that happened in 2020 is now void and no one cares. One backstage beatdown on Pinnacle re-legitimized them. That's not me writing off past questionable booking per se, (the stable should have always been booked strong and the OC thing would have never been written if I had the pen) but it's me saying that wrestling is cyclical and people only care about what they're seeing that moment. Beating IC in a Blood and Guts match now means something because the crowd is invested in Chris Jericho and his stable as heroic babyfaces against the evil MJF. 

Was Blood and Guts booked too soon? Yes. Should it have been at DONIII? Yes. Should there have been singles matches and tag matches in the build-up? Yes. But when you watch wrestling like that and expect a feud to have perfect structure in the way that you dreamt it up, then you take yourself out of it and prevent yourself from enjoying the ride, especially when the segments haven't been offensive garbage. It's faction warfare. Pinnacle struck first in a great segment, IC struck next in a great segment. Pinnacle struck again, but Mike Tyson showed up in an entertaining but questionable segment, and now none of that matters and the feud is bad because the structure isn't right? Yeah they could have done more with it before the big 5v5 match, but not doing more doesn't mean that a story that has been building for the last 6 months is all of a sudden void. I'm pretty sure Pinnacle is winning at Blood and Guts and they will obviously get their heat back. Then they'll go on to be the top stable for the next 2-3 years probably.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Ratings arguments are not going to die down now. If anything they’re going to heat up, because neither show has the other one to blame now. I guarantee you the armchair experts will be crawling out of the woodwork in this dump 4:00 pm Thursday, as soon as they learn that Dynamite didn’t hit a million viewers.


Instead of complaining about those people why aren't you yourself questioning why a show that is billionaire funded and spends tens of millions a year on talent and is on a national network on Prime Time can't hit a million viewers?


----------



## NathanMayberry

Prosper said:


> Of course not. These people have their statements and posts already written in stone ready to go armpits sweating in anticipation. "I canTTTT waiittt to provEEE AEdUBBYYA FANss wrong MAtteee!!!"
> 
> I'm expecting 850K next week with a steady climb towards a million. As long as the cards stay as strong as they are for this week's show.


Lmaoo... months ago you predicted 1.4 million for the Anniversary episode now... its only 850 K...


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

I reckon it'll climb to 750k max. People are overestimating how big the increase will be.


----------



## Klitschko

780k.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Prosper said:


> I thought you enjoyed the Inner Circle beatdown in the locker room? What made you change your mind? Jim Cornette after his rant about Pinnacle being "dead"?


I can't be arsed to go back and check but I could have sworn people were praising this at the time too, until JC's comments set the narrative...


----------



## The Wood

Prosper said:


> Of course not. These people have their statements and posts already written in stone ready to go armpits sweating in anticipation. "I canTTTT waiittt to provEEE AEdUBBYYA FANss wrong MAtteee!!!"
> 
> I'm expecting 850K next week with a steady climb towards a million. As long as the cards stay as strong as they are for this week's show.


No one talks like that...except for maybe your side when trying to deliberately misrepresent people instead of addressing actual arguments. 



Pentagon Senior said:


> I can't be arsed to go back and check but I could have sworn people were praising this at the time too, until JC's comments set the narrative...


Nope. I know I was critical of the beat-down. I remember people saying it didn’t make sense. Most people get that the heat has gone. I think this is actually about burying the heels.

You’re just trying to spin the narrative you want.


----------



## thorn123

I wish viewership would climb. I don’t think it will.


----------



## TD Stinger

I'll be interested to see how NXT did last night and see how that translates into AEW doing tonight.

I predicted 850k for Dynamite this week and when I made that prediction, I felt like I was going too low. I feel like with NXT being gone starting this week and other factors, they should get into the 900's somewhere. But, every time I go too high I'm always wrong, lol. So, we'll see what happens.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

as i said in prediction thread

no Challenge on MTV, no NXT

950k


----------



## Aedubya

0.88


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## DammitChrist

Alright, it's pretty obvious how many viewers that Dynamite will get tonight now that they're officially alone on Wednesdays. 







They're going to recieve 769 trillion views for their ratings this week :lelblessed :mj


----------



## One Shed

Prosper said:


> Lol there are a lot of people who are interested in the Bucks, simply due to the fact that there is an audience for their style of wrestling like it or not. I understand you hate them with a passion but you can't speak for everyone. The Impact title on its own doesn't mean anything given the state of Impact, but no one was looking at it that way when the Belt Collector thing started anyway. We were looking at the big picture, not the individual titles on their own. We all know that no titles matter on their own other than the AEW, WWE, and NJPW titles, just because these are the 3 major promotions. We've always known that. It was just an additional "Infinity stone on the glove" because of the simple fact that it is a World title from a different promotion. The AAA Title doesn't mean much to the American audience either but it's still a World Title that Kenny holds and Kenny Omega walking out with it around his shoulder still means something because of the angle itself. Same if he were to win the NWA Title from Aldis. The NJPW Title is definitely needed to bring everything together though. You're looking at the Kenny/Bucks thing like that because you don't like the Bucks, so it's impossible for you to see how it could be acceptable to others who may be fans of the duo. Kenny wants to reform the Bullet Club and stated that he started AEW with them implying that his decision not to go to WWE was because he "chose" them. I do agree that the melodrama needs to be turned down, and the acting was pretty bad I admit, but the story does make sense and it is somewhat long-term whether we think it is being executed properly or not. Now that the Bucks are full-blown heel (hopefully), we can now move forward to the next chapter of the overall story. It's just a beat to the story that continues to grow in multiple layers.
> 
> I thought you enjoyed the Inner Circle beatdown in the locker room? What made you change your mind? Jim Cornette after his rant about Pinnacle being "dead"? Lol come on @Two Sheds . If that's genuinely your personal opinion then fine. I disagree with both of your opinions on the Pinnacle/IC feud. The locker room beatdown was done to perfection and was highly entertaining. The Mike Tyson beatdown was also highly entertaining. People are not watching the show from one week to the next and thinking "this group is buried now", they're enjoying themselves and if they have been watching wrestling for a while they know that Pinnacle is fine and will get their heat back. I'm not saying that this is perfect booking, I would have done it differently. But the outrage is way blown out of proportion, especially from Jim Cornette who it seems that most have been quoting in that other thread about Blood and Guts "jumping the shark" after most were praising the beatdown the week before. Mike Tyson beat on Shawn Spears a bit so what? The video has over a million views already in the last 5 days, people enjoyed it. That doesn't mean that Pinnacle is dead as a group. Heat can easily be regained. You all went on and on about MJF being done and in one week got all his heat back. How much easier will it be now that he has a faction? One IC beatdown tomorrow with a scathing promo and they have all their heat back instantly.


Sorry for the delay in replying. I did not just want to give a quick reply without thinking about it and my boss apparently expects me to work haha.

I understand there are people who like professional gymnastics. I do not pretend to speak for everyone, but I do point out that less and less people are watching wrestling. If MORE people than ever before were tuning in now, I would just chuckle and realize this stuff is not for me and stop watching. There are plenty of popular things that I cannot stand, but I understand they have their audiences. That is what gives me hope about wrestling. When they do things I do not enjoy, less people watch. I think those things are related. It does not make me right, but I think it is a good argument.

It is not just that the Impact title means nothing, have they mentioned it on their show? Kenny is challenging for it in less than two weeks and his time onscreen is being spent on arguing about kids not wanting to be in his treehouse club. They could be actually building the title match up but...no. Nothing. I know the NWA title means nothing to most people also in 2021 but it should. One thing WWE and AEW are both good at is video production and they could be hyping this stuff. It would be VERY easy to make the NWA title feel important given its history and I get why you might not want to go overboard since it is a much more important historical title than your own company's, but having Kenny concentrate on collecting titles vs the middle school melodrama seems pretty obvious to me. You even say you agree with me that the story they are telling is not good so not sure what we are debating.

In a vacuum I did enjoy the beatdown as a segment other than the horrible thing with the IC standing in the bathroom. I said so at the time. As a beatdown segment it was great, but as a logical storyline progression of building up a new faction, it was horrible. The Icicle has zero heat and the IC got their revenge within two weeks. I get that people like Cornette do nitpick a bit too much sometimes, but they are right on the main point. Almost everything Cornette says when he goes into alternative booking mode is better than what is presented on the show. That is what experience gives you. No one involved here knows what they are doing from a long term production standpoint. It is all car crash TV booking one week at a time. It is why I call it schizophrenic booking by someone with moderate to severe ADHD and I stand by that. This is all short term thinking so I just find it hilarious when people talk about AEW being good at long term storytelling. If someone mentions something a year ago and then it comes up again now but in the interval nothing happens about that thing, that is not long term storytelling. That is someone remembering something that was done and saying "oh yeah, mention that again." It is highly common with people with ADHD. It is just really clear to me psychologically that this is what is happening.



Prosper said:


> Inner Circle are babyfaces now and wrestling fans only live in the present, meaning that everything that happened in 2020 is now void and no one cares. One backstage beatdown on Pinnacle re-legitimized them. That's not me writing off past questionable booking per se, (the stable should have always been booked strong and the OC thing would have never been written if I had the pen) but it's me saying that wrestling is cyclical and people only care about what they're seeing that moment. Beating IC in a Blood and Guts match now means something because the crowd is invested in Chris Jericho and his stable as heroic babyfaces against the evil MJF.
> 
> Was Blood and Guts booked too soon? Yes. Should it have been at DONIII? Yes. Should there have been singles matches and tag matches in the build-up? Yes. But when you watch wrestling like that and expect a feud to have perfect structure in the way that you dreamt it up, then you take yourself out of it and prevent yourself from enjoying the ride, especially when the segments haven't been offensive garbage. It's faction warfare. Pinnacle struck first in a great segment, IC struck next in a great segment. Pinnacle struck again, but Mike Tyson showed up in an entertaining but questionable segment, and now none of that matters and the feud is bad because the structure isn't right? Yeah they could have done more with it before the big 5v5 match, but not doing more doesn't mean that a story that has been building for the last 6 months is all of a sudden void. I'm pretty sure Pinnacle is winning at Blood and Guts and they will obviously get their heat back. Then they'll go on to be the top stable for the next 2-3 years probably.


I know the common argument today is everyone has short attention spans so everything needs to hook your attention instantly and I just do not buy it. I understand why people say that stuff, but some of the most popular things ARE long form podcasts and long term storytelling. I would argue that sure at a surface level, they can get heat back but all that stuff in the past DOES matter. People know it and bad booking does leave a residue on people. It does matter that they had a crappy 2020. They can rebuild, but no one should argue that they NEED to rebuild and why they need to do it, right? How much stronger would this feud be if the IC was where they were 14 months ago vs now? There is less interest in the whole thing because of the booking.

So...you agree with me. The booking is bad. They should not be doing the match in the manner they are. I see your argument here being akin to "just shut up and enjoy the ride" which is fine, but what would the purpose of a forum be if everyone just took that approach? Fewer people are tuning into this show and many of the reasons are fairly clear. Maybe the Icicle does something cool tonight and I will like it, but that does not mean the build has been good. It just means they produced a good segment like the backstage beatdown was. The overall vision of the product is poor.


----------



## Prized Fighter

I am not sure if this has been mentioned, but The Challenge didn't end last week. It still goes for the next two weeks. That is all, back to your debates.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*04/13/21:
0.805M [29th]
0.220D [8th]

NXT without AEW:*










*08/26/20:
0.824M [44th] [ - 0.019M | - 2.31% ]
0.240D [24th] [ - 0.020D | - 8.33% ]*










*08/19/20:
0.853M [37th] [ - 0.048M | - 5.63% ]
0.240D [23rd] [ - 0.020D | - 8.33% ]*










*12/25/19:
0.831M [34th] [ - 0.026M | - 3.13% ]
0.220D [29th] [ +|- 0.000D | +|- 0.00% ]*










*09/25/19:
1.006M [31st] [ - 0.201M | - 19.98% ]
0.320D [8th] [ - 0.100D | - 31.25% ]*










*09/18/19:
1.179M [19th] [ - 0.374M | - 31.72% ]
0.430D [4th] [ - 0.210D | - 48.84% ]*


----------



## rbl85

I was expecting more for NXT in the demo + the fact that it was the show after their Wrestlemania takeover.


----------



## Prosper

805,000 cable viewers and a 0.22 demo for NXT unopposed. Not bad.


----------



## rbl85

Prosper said:


> 805,000 cable viewers and a 0.22 demo for NXT unopposed. Not bad.


That numbers they were already doing on wednesday's tho and i was after their biggest PPV of the year.


----------



## 3venflow

+40k in viewership and same demo for NXT. However, last week's NXT was for a special show, so it's better to compare their improvement to the standard weekly rating which had been 691k, 597k, 678k and 654k in the four weeks before Takeover. So, 805k is a good viewership number. Key demo hasn't seen a bump but was enough to rank them 8th on Tuesday.


----------



## Ger

Prosper said:


> 805,000 viewers and a 0.22 demo for NXT unopposed. Not bad.


They moved the show a complete day, so that is really not bad (for NXT).
So Dynamite has to hope for people, who want to watch both shows now and cannot just hope for taking people over from the TV-spot at wednesday.


----------



## Prosper

rbl85 said:


> That was numbers they were already doing on wednesday's tho and i was after their biggest PPV of the year.


No their previous numbers were worse than last night's. Its still a nice increase I would say. Demo should have been better though.


----------



## rbl85

3venflow said:


> +40k in viewership and same demo for NXT. However, last week's NXT was for a special show, so it's better to compare their improvement to the standard weekly rating which had been 691k, 597k, 678k and 654k in the four weeks before Takeover. So, 805k is a good viewership number. Key demo hasn't seen a bump but was enough to rank them 8th on Tuesday.


Except that last week the average viewership was probably more than 805K because Peacock "ate" viewers from USA network.


----------



## TD Stinger

I expected NXT to do about 800k and thats just about what they got.

I predicted 850k for AEW. Again, I really feel like I’m shooting low. Like, my head is telling me they’ll get at least 900k. But every time I shoot high I’m always wrong, lol. So I won’t chabye my prediction, but I do feel like AEW will get to 900.


----------



## DammitChrist

Alright, how about this as a prediction then for both sides (in all fairness here)?

Dynamite only gets 1 view (just me) tonight for the critics, and it gets 999,999 trillion view for the fans.

This way, everyone on here can be wrong, and nobody gets to feel bad about it


----------



## Chan Hung

"IF" NXT beats AEW this week...sorry lads but i will fucking lol and probably do a facepalm as well.


----------



## DaSlacker

Chan Hung said:


> "IF" NXT beats AEW this week...sorry lads but i will fucking lol and probably do a facepalm as well.


They won't but it would be fucking funny. And I say this as someone who wants AEW to succeed. 

There's definitely 200,000 floaters on a Wednesday night.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

NathanMayberry said:


> Instead of complaining about those people why aren't you yourself questioning why a show that is billionaire funded and spends tens of millions a year on talent and is on a national network on Prime Time can't hit a million viewers?


Because I could give two shits about any of that. All I care about is having a wrestling show I actually enjoy watching.

Instead of complaining about a show and a company you obviously can’t stand, why aren’t you yourself (and your horde of haters) even wasting your time watching it? Oh that’s right,you don’t watch it, you just bitch about it. Constantly.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Because I could give two shits about any of that. All I care about is having a wrestling show I actually enjoy watching.


This concept seems to be lost on some people lmao.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Because I could give two shits about any of that. All I care about is having a wrestling show I actually enjoy watching.


So why the fuck do you choose to come to a thread where people who do give two shits about that come to discuss it? If all you care about to enjoying Dynamite there's a thread where you are free to do that. You can take turns with other users in that wannabe echo chamber, circle jerking about how perfect the episode was at 10:01 PM Eastern Time every Wednesday night.



> Instead of complaining about a show and a company you obviously can’t stand, why aren’t you yourself (and your horde of haters) even wasting your time watching it? Oh that’s right,you don’t watch it, you just bitch about it. Constantly.


Yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn another emotional outburst from an AEW fan who wants an echo chamber because they can't stand that people don't like Tony Kahn's garbage... how original.

"Anyone who dares to not like trash booking is clearly a Dynamite hater, no matter how many suggestions they provide of what can and should be done to produce a better show." - AEW fan logic..


----------



## Chan Hung

I'm going on a limb...tomorrow's rating will be 860,000 (around there). If they exceed 950,000 i will be massively shocked.


----------



## NathanMayberry

The Raw Smackdown said:


> This concept seems to be lost on some people lmao.


The concept that is lost is the fact that people who say this shit, CHOOSE to come to a thread where they know people who do care about these things are discussing it and do nothing but bitch about what people are saying.

If you don't like what people are saying about AEW's ratings decline, then tweet to Tony Khan a picture of a dog being wanked to get his attention and then proceed to give him booking advice on how to book a better show once he's been seduced by the dog.


----------



## rbl85

For me it's strange that someone who've been saying that the show suck for months is still watching it.

I mean at one point you got to move on, you're not forced to watch it. In life there are things we're forced to do even tho we hate it but it's strange to watch a wrestling show that you've been hating for months and months.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

NathanMayberry said:


> The concept that is lost is the fact that people who say this shit, CHOOSE to come to a thread where they know people who do care about these things are discussing it and do nothing but bitch about what people are saying.
> 
> If you don't like what people are saying about AEW's ratings decline, then tweet to Tony Khan a picture of a dog being wanked to get his attention and then proceed to give him booking advice on how to book a better show once he's been seduced by the dog.


And if YOU don't like what AEW is putting out then fucking tweet to Tony Kahn some damn booking advice on how to make the show better. You CHOOSE to come to a section of a forum about a fucking show that you clearly hate.

You don't get to pull that bullshit on anyone.


----------



## DammitChrist

NathanMayberry said:


> So why the fuck do you choose to come to a thread where people who do give two shits about that come to discuss it? If all you care about to enjoying Dynamite there's a thread where you are free to do that. You can take turns with other users in that wannabe echo chamber, circle jerking about how perfect the episode was at 10:01 PM Eastern Time every Wednesday night.
> 
> 
> Yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn another emotional outburst from an AEW fan who wants an echo chamber because they can't stand that people don't like Tony Kahn's garbage... how original.
> 
> "Anyone who dares to not like trash booking is clearly a Dynamite hater, no matter how many suggestions they provide of what can and should be done to produce a better show." - AEW fan logic..


This post just basically reeks of you wanting a negative echo-chamber in this thread.

I'd love to break it to you, but that won't (and shouldn't) happen at all here. The passionate fans are more than welcome to hop on here. If some of them must keep someone like you in check just in case, then they have every right to do so here 

With that being said, I'll risk being wrong and go with 850 K viewers for Dynamite this week (realistically speaking). 

However, we ALL know that they'll end up getting 420 billion views here


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> For me it's strange that someone who've been saying that the show suck for months is still watching it.
> 
> I mean at one point you got to move on, you're not forced to watch it. In life there are things we're forced to do even tho we hate it but it's strange to watch a wrestling show that you've been hating for months and months.


Stop trying to gaslight people into not watching. People watched WWE for years waiting for it to get better. Be careful what you ask for when it comes to AEW. 



DammitChrist said:


> This post just basically reeks of you wanting a negative echo-chamber in this thread.
> 
> I'd love to break it to you, but that won't (and shouldn't) happen at all here. The passionate fans are more than welcome to hop on here. If some of them must keep someone like you in check just in case, then they have every right to do so here
> 
> With that being said, I'll risk being wrong and go with 850 K viewers for Dynamite this week (realistically speaking).
> 
> However, we ALL know that they'll end up getting 420 billion views here


Lol, it’s not that these people are passionate. It’s that they’re bitching about ratings discussions in the ratings discussion thread. Stop lying.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> Stop trying to gaslight people into not watching. People watched WWE for years waiting for it to get better. Be careful what you ask for when it comes to AEW.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, it’s not that these people are passionate. It’s that they’re bitching about ratings discussions in the ratings discussion thread. Stop lying.


It's not cool to twist (your false) narratives like that on here tbh.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> It's not cool to twist (your false) narratives like that on here tbh.


Read what Nathan said, then read what you said. I’m not the one twisting.


----------



## NathanMayberry

rbl85 said:


> For me it's strange that someone who've been saying that the show suck for months is still watching it.
> 
> I mean at one point you got to move on, you're not forced to watch it. In life there are things we're forced to do even tho we hate it but it's strange to watch a wrestling show that you've been hating for months and months.


I've been apart of the IWC for over 15 years.. people watching a show that they want to get better is nothing new. The fact that AEW fans think that this is unique to them is funny. The fact that they bitch about it this much is even funnier considering that many of them are the ones who were in the WWE Section bitching about WWE every week up until AEW was a thing. Hell, some even do it to this day. They shit all over things in the WWE section, and come to the AEW section to post about how the latest Young Bucks match is supposed to be the best match of the year.. 



> And if YOU don't like what AEW is putting out then fucking tweet to Tony Kahn some damn booking advice on how to make the show better. .


Tony Khan sucks at life... literally the only thing he has going for him is that his dad is rich. I've never seen a billionaire get clowned as much as he does. I've been trying to tell you guys that he's shit for years. I've seen Fulham and I've seen Jacksonville. There's no way a guy who is that shit at running those teams won't do the same with wrestling. Just wait and see. 



> You CHOOSE to come to a section of a forum about a fucking show that you clearly hate.
> 
> You don't get to pull that bullshit on anyone


I choose to come here and talk about AEW's ratings and TV viewership in the AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread.

Did I memo about this thread being a circle jerk too? For some reason AEW fans here REALLY don't like people talking about ratings and TV viewership these days.



> This post just basically reeks of you wanting a negative echo-chamber in this thread.
> 
> I'd love to break it to you, but that won't (and shouldn't) happen at all here. The passionate fans are more than welcome to hop on here. If some of them must keep someone like you in check just in case, then they have every right to do so here
> 
> With that being said, I'll risk being wrong and go with 850 K viewers for Dynamite this week (realistically speaking).
> 
> However, we ALL know that they'll end up getting 420 billion views here


They can be as passionate as they desire. What I don't understand is their constant desire to shut down any other sort of conversation and label people as simply haters to dismiss their opinions. Every week, after every episode we get some Prosperous guy posting about how match XYZ was the greatest XYZ in however long, never gets locked, whilst another thread about XYZ sucking gets locked. Both are ridiculous and full of hyperbole, yet given the decline in ratings its pretty clear which one is closer to the truth.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

NathanMayberry said:


> The concept that is lost is the fact that people who say this shit, CHOOSE to come to a thread where they know people who do care about these things are discussing it and do nothing but bitch about what people are saying.
> 
> If you don't like what people are saying about AEW's ratings decline, then tweet to Tony Khan a picture of a dog being wanked to get his attention and then proceed to give him booking advice on how to book a better show once he's been seduced by the dog.


WHY DO YOU CARE ABOUT IT SO MUCH IF YOU HATE THE MOTHERFUCKING PRODUCT?? All you do is bitch about the booking and link every negative article ever written about the promotion, it’s wrestlers, it’s management, or the old lady who cleans Tony Kahn’s fucking toilet. I don’t get it.

For the record, no, I don’t want an echo chamber, which has now seem to become the standard response to anybody who calls out you malcontents. There’s plenty I could criticize about it, but there’s no point because anything resembling intelligent discussion is nonexistent around here.

How the hell did you get off my ignore list anyway.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Reggie Dunlop said:


> WHY DO YOU CARE ABOUT IT SO MUCH IF YOU HATE THE MOTHERFUCKING PRODUCT?? All you do is bitch about the booking and link every negative article ever written about the promotion, it’s wrestlers, it’s management, or the old lady who cleans Tony Kahn’s fucking toilet. I don’t get it.
> 
> For the record, no, I don’t want an echo chamber, which has now seem to become the standard response to anybody who calls out you malcontents. There’s plenty I could criticize about it, but there’s no point because anything resembling intelligent discussion is nonexistent around here.


I really don't get you guys..

How and why is it so hard to fathom that WRESTLING fans would be interested in talking about WRESTLING on a website called WRESTLINGFORUM? Where the fuck else am I supposed to go to talk about AEW's ratings or to share my thoughts on AEW? I'm a Christian mark, was a Miro fan, liked Brodie Lee, same with FTR, as well as Moxley. I care about what they and some other guys in AEW are doing, because AEW gives them an accessible platform.

Have you ever seen me rejoice at AEW's ratings decline? All I've ever done is call AEW as I see it. When ratings have been high and when they've been low my posts have been the same. AEW needs to cut the dumb edgy humor and spots out. AEW fans are so blind to their bubble they don't seem to understand what they're doing to people outside their bubble. For example, see the Shaq audience, they brought in all these viewers and rather than doing things those people enjoy, they did more and more shit to appeal to the guys who already call everything AEW does the greatest XYZ ever, and now these people are gone and even Meltzer is complaining. Once that, they're new rubbed off, the dumb unnecessary shit AEW does becomes more and more glaring. Brawls and run ins, brawls and run ins.. And every episode, including the one last night makes no attempt to improve on this. 2 years in and in almost every match you have people doing whatever the fuck they want.

But alas, I guess it is difficult to understand why someone who loves wrestling would be interested in discussing how the second largest promotion does in terms of ratings. Its almost like I want AEW to stop doing the stupid shit that it does, and not actually fail. Its almost like I want all that talent they accumulated to be used properly instead of as pawns for the egos of Cody, and The Elite, so they actually thrive and not get wasted with video games and nobodies.. while the champ 69s with old men in the ring.. If AEW really wants to know what turned women away, I would not be surprised if it was that.




> How the hell did you get off my ignore list anyway.


Claims, not to want an echo chamber... Uses Ignore list.. The double speak is funny among you guys. "I'm scared of words on the internet, please forum module, protect me... give me that......safe space"


----------



## Mister Sinister

The ratings can't be good this week. They probably cratered the show with that long opening match. What you put on television matters.


----------



## The Wood

Wrestling fans are interested in how wrestling is doing. Full story at 12.


----------



## VIP86

NathanMayberry said:


> *Tony Khan sucks at life.*


this is actually a 100% proven fact
he pretty much failed at everything

Fulham F.C.
is in the bottom three in the premier league
with a big chance to be relegated this season

jacksonville jaguars in 2020
have set a franchise record for most consecutive losses in a single season. 

All Elite Wrestling
just look at his inept booking ability

Tony Khan is the personification of a spoiled rich idiot


----------



## izhack111

I will go with 820 K


----------



## ProjectGargano

VIP86 said:


> this is actually a 100% proven fact
> he pretty much failed at everything
> 
> Fulham F.C.
> is in the bottom three in the premier league
> with a big chance to be relegated this season
> 
> jacksonville jaguars in 2020
> have set a franchise record for most consecutive losses in a single season.
> 
> All Elite Wrestling
> just look at his inept booking ability
> 
> Tony Khan is the personification of a spoiled rich idiot


Fulham- If he manages to stay in Premier League is a great achievement for the team 

Jaguars- At least he will get Trevor Lawrence

AEW- Won the Wednesday Night Wars to a WWE brand.


----------



## Dr. Middy

It's conversations like the one above that make me just watch the show and not want to discuss it. I feel like I enjoy it more in that sense.


----------



## VIP86

are you seriously justifying failures ?


ProjectGargano said:


> Fulham- If he manages to stay in Premier League is a great achievement for the team


not an achievement for a club owned by a multi billionaire
just listen to what the football experts in england are saying about TK



ProjectGargano said:


> Jaguars- At least he will get Trevor Lawrence


most losses in 2020, do i need to say more



ProjectGargano said:


> AEW- Won the Wednesday Night Wars to a WWE brand.


WWE wrestling school


----------



## rbl85

VIP86 said:


> *WWE wrestling school*


Wrestling schools with 80% of the roster being veterans XD


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> Wrestling schools with 80% of the roster being veterans XD


It’s a finishing school and a third tier show that is obviously not high priority. And they didn’t “win” shit.


----------



## One Shed

Is it really coming down to people feeling the need to defend Tony's father's other business ventures now? The Jaguars SUCK. Will hiring a guy who was successful at coaching college teams help? Maybe but that is a big maybe. Those skills do not often translate.

But this is just so weird to me. Even when the WWE was great, you never saw people say "the WBF was a good idea." This all or nothing, black and white thinking is so strange.


----------



## qntntgood

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *04/13/21:
> 0.805M [29th]
> 0.220D [8th]
> 
> NXT without AEW:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *08/26/20:
> 0.824M [44th] [ - 0.019M | - 2.31% ]
> 0.240D [24th] [ - 0.020D | - 8.33% ]*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *08/19/20:
> 0.853M [37th] [ - 0.048M | - 5.63% ]
> 0.240D [23rd] [ - 0.020D | - 8.33% ]*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *12/25/20:
> 0.831M [34th] [ - 0.026M | - 3.13% ]
> 0.220D [29th] [ +|- 0.000D | +|- 0.00% ]*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *09/25/20:
> 1.006M [31st] [ - 0.201M | - 19.98% ]
> 0.320D [8th] [ - 0.100D | - 31.25% ]*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *09/18/20:
> 1.179M [19th] [ - 0.374M | - 31.72% ]
> 0.430D [4th] [ - 0.210D | - 48.84% ]*


It would not surprise me if aew got a million viewers in the ratings,but doesn't change the fact that show needs to fixed.


----------



## VIP86

rbl85 said:


> Wrestling schools with 80% of the roster being veterans XD


veterans in a wrestling school

as much as i dislike Vince McMahon and all his family
but you're dreaming if you think he's not able to crush little Tony if he wanted to


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> It's conversations like the one above that make me just watch the show and not want to discuss it. I feel like I enjoy it more in that sense.


As someone who rarely watches live I tend to skip the live Dynamite thread until after I watch, for this reason. My viewing experience has been greatly enhanced by doing so 😅


----------



## rbl85

VIP86 said:


> veterans in a wrestling school
> 
> as much as i dislike Vince McMahon and all his family
> but you're dreaming if you think he's not able to crush little Tony if he wanted to


If Khan wants to he can buy the WWE


----------



## One Shed

Pentagon Senior said:


> As someone who rarely watches live I tend to skip the live Dynamite thread until after I watch, for this reason. My viewing experience has been greatly enhanced by doing so 😅


This makes sense to me as well. I love the experience of the live thread but I would never read it if not watching live. I watch Dynamite live every week but almost never watch Smackdown live since it is on Friday afternoon. As a result, I pretty much never go into the Smackdown live thread.


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> If Khan wants to he can buy the WWE


His father possibly could.


----------



## ProjectGargano

VIP86 said:


> are you seriously justifying failures ?
> 
> not an achievement for a club owned by a multi billionaire
> just listen to what the football experts in england are saying about TK
> 
> 
> most losses in 2020, do i need to say more
> 
> 
> WWE wrestling school


Wrestling school? They have an older roster than AEW. You can say third brand, but not wrestling school.


----------



## VIP86

rbl85 said:


> If Khan wants to he can buy the WWE


nope, he can't
now you're just making silly statements

your net worth doesn't mean the amount of cash money you have ready to buy anything
Net worth is just the value of the assets a person or corporation owns


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Two Sheds said:


> This makes sense to me as well. I love the experience of the live thread but I would never read it if not watching live. I watch Dynamite live every week but almost never watch Smackdown live since it is on Friday afternoon. As a result, I pretty much never go into the Smackdown live thread.


Yeah I get that. I watched the Britt/Rosa episode live and had fun time in that thread but otherwise it just reduces my viewing pleasure to read it first. Human minds are easily moulded by external influences so it's best to watch alone first and form my own opinions.


----------



## VIP86

ProjectGargano said:


> Wrestling school? They have an older roster than AEW. You can say third brand, but not wrestling school.


yes, a Wrestling school
not a third brand
"third brand" is just what HHH says to make himself sounds more important

it's meant to train wrestlers before the main roster


----------



## rbl85

VIP86 said:


> yes, a Wrestling school
> not a third brand
> "third brand" is just what HHH says to make himself sounds more important
> 
> it's meant to train wrestlers before the main roster


That's why wrestlers from the main roster come back to NXT, they probably forgot what they were taught.......


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> If Khan wants to he can buy the WWE


Whoa, easy there. Tony can’t. Shad has the resources to, but Vince would need to be willing to sell.


----------



## VIP86

rbl85 said:


> That's why wrestlers from the main roster come back to NXT, they probably forgot what they were taught.......


that's because Vince McMahon is an idiot in terms of booking (apart from very few exceptions) just like Tony Khan


----------



## Mr316

Huge failure if they get under 900k unopposed.


----------



## Klitschko

780k for this episode.


----------



## Mr316

Klitschko said:


> 780k for this episode.


That would be a disaster.


----------



## Prosper

The Wood said:


> Whoa, easy there. Tony can’t. Shad has the resources to, but Vince would need to be willing to sell.


I can see Vince selling before he passes. Cash out and build greater generational wealth.


----------



## TD Stinger

My prediction is already in at 850k, though admittingly that was me being cautiously low since I always predict too high. This time it feels like I predicted too low. My head says they'll get into the 900k range comfortably. But we'll see.


----------



## Alright_Mate

Important rating this week, pretty much the most important in their short history so far.

Anything above 800k will show that there’s still interest.

Anything in the 700k’s will be a massive failure.


----------



## rbl85

After watching the last video posted on this topic, it's now so funny to see people talking about the ratings when they don't know a think about it XD


----------



## Bliss316

Prosper said:


> I can see Vince selling before he passes. Cash out and build greater generational wealth.


Vince will outlive us all!


----------



## Bliss316

as for the ratings I don't really care about them like I said in the Raw Ratings thread ratings don't matter anymore cable tv is dying and people find other ways to watch there fav shows now but this thread is still fun to check out cause all the over reactions by people who don't know what the hell they are talking about.


----------



## Prosper

Bliss316 said:


> as for the ratings I don't really care about them like I said in the Raw Ratings thread ratings don't matter anymore *cable tv is dying and people find other ways to watch there fav shows now but this thread is still fun to check out cause all the over reactions by people who don't know what the hell they are talking about.*


Lol you have no idea, cable ratings matter but some people argue like its the entire audience in here instead of being objective about the entire picture. Same in the WWE section.


----------



## rbl85

Prosper said:


> Lol you have no idea, cable ratings matter but some people argue like its the entire audience in here instead of being objective about the entire picture. Same in the WWE section.


It matters but not in the way many people here think it does.


----------



## Mister Sinister

I'm calling 750k.


----------



## NathanMayberry

qntntgood said:


> It would not surprise me if aew got a million viewers in the ratings,but doesn't change the fact that show needs to fixed.


I honestly would not be surprised either. In fact I'd be more surprised if AEW didn't hit a million than if they did. 

They usually average 50% of Raw which did 2 million on Monday. I also would not be surprised to see that million turn into 700K a few weeks later.


----------



## Bliss316

Prosper said:


> Lol you have no idea, cable ratings matter but some people argue like its the entire audience in here instead of being objective about the entire picture. Same in the WWE section.


What people refuse to see yes WWE ratings are dropping but so is every other cable show on tv its Cable tv that is dying people finding other ways to watch the product now and there fav shows without paying a huge cable bill.


----------



## Impermanence

It's shocking that around 700-750K people watch this show every week, though nowhere near as shocking as the fact that over 1.5M people have been watching Raw since 2019, especially the past nine months or so. 

I'll be disappointed if Dynamite GAINS viewers this week, because they don't deserve it any more than Raw, and that means Dynamite will continue to be shit and the writing/booking will never change and I'll never actually have an alternative.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW: 1.2m (0.44)

Holee shit.

LOOK AT THE 50+ and female upturn, that's the unopposed effect.


----------



## Whoanma

3venflow said:


> AEW: 1.2m (0.44)
> 
> Holee shit.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Impermanence said:


> It's shocking that around 700-750K people watch this show every week, though nowhere near as shocking as the fact that over 1.5M people have been watching Raw since 2019, especially the past nine months or so.
> 
> I'll be disappointed if Dynamite GAINS viewers this week, because they don't deserve it any more than Raw, and that means Dynamite will continue to be shit and the writing/booking will never change and I'll never actually have an alternative.


I would be very surprised to see AEW gain viewers. The long match at the beginning would have turned people away.




3venflow said:


> AEW: 1.2m (0.44)
> 
> Holee shit.


I spoke too soon.


----------



## EmbassyForever




----------



## Whoanma

Now this thread is going to become really interesting.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Jesus, that's one hell of a jump; don't squander it AEW


----------



## DammitChrist

I REMEMBER BEING TOLD that AEW "WAS DYING" 😂 

Today is a great day for wrestling fans!


----------



## 3venflow

This is AEW Dynamite's highest viewership since the debut show. It did more viewers than episodes #2 and #3


----------



## Prosper

1.2 million with a 0.44 demo holy shit thats wild 

I predicted 950K we were all way off lol


----------



## ProjectGargano

Woowwww ahahahah i love this


----------



## Whoanma

DammitChrist said:


> I REMEMBER BEING TOLD that AEW "WAS DYING" 😂
> 
> Today is a great day for wrestling fans!


I remember it too. And all those comments pages ago categorically stating AEW would never get past a million viewers again. Well, that didn’t age well either.


----------



## Geert Wilders

DammitChrist said:


> I REMEMBER BEING TOLD that AEW "WAS DYING" 😂
> 
> Today is a great day for wrestling fans!


Was this the first unopposed


----------



## A PG Attitude

Well God damn pal.


----------



## ProjectGargano

AEW is dying periodt


----------



## 3venflow

Per Brandon Thurston, the latest Dynamite vs. the median of the past four weeks:

P18-49 +57%
F18-49 +100%
M18-49 +39%
P18-34 +93%
F12-34 +90%
M12-34 +59%
P25-54 +49%
P50+ +75%
P2+ +67%
P35-49 +52%

Starting with a MOTYC probably helped.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

FUCKING LOL


----------



## Garty

3venflow said:


> AEW: 1.2m (0.44)
> 
> Holee shit.
> 
> LOOK AT THE 50+ and female upturn, that's the unopposed effect.
> 
> View attachment 100012



WOW! WHAT?! I would have never expected this for the first night free of NXT. We'll see next week, but this is a very encouraging sign. Maybe NXT can go back already?! I mean they just had their "Tuesday is NXT" special, only to turn around with "NXT Wednesday War"?

Wow, just wow!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Remember, less blood, less mudshow, less Bucks, women’s division sucks, too many stables, TK can’t book

FUCKING LOLS FOR DAYS BRAH


----------



## Mr316

Well, I have to shut my mouth. This is an incredible number.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Garty said:


> WOW! WHAT?! I would have never expected this for the first night free of NXT. We'll see next week, but this is a very encouraging sign. Maybe NXT can go back already?! I mean they just had their "Tuesday is NXT" special, only to turn around with "NXT Wednesday War"?
> 
> Wow, just wow!


This is half of RAW. It is very impressive.


----------



## Prosper

AEW is definitely not dying and cable people are for sure interested, now we can get the real numbers every week without NXT.


----------



## Whoanma

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Remember, less blood, less mudshow, less Bucks, women’s division sucks, too many stables, TK can’t book
> 
> FUCKING LOLS FOR DAYS BRAH


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Prosper said:


> AEW is definitely not dying and cable people are for sure interested, now we can get the real numbers every week without NXT.


and Challenge was still running it seems - when that is season over, its top of the pile

i mean, they beat the NBA


----------



## Geert Wilders

Geert Wilders said:


> This is half of RAW. It is very impressive.


Sorry, RAW just did 1.7 million viewers last week. Dynamite is only 500k viewers away.


----------



## TD Stinger

Well fuck, I was thinking in the end they would get the 900k range. 1.2 is damn near double what they had last week.

Very impressive number.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Look at Vince pushing NXT back to Wednesday 😂


----------



## 3venflow

Let's be honest, Tyson promoting the show two hours before it started probably helped a lot.

But that is a bigger jump than _anyone_ on here predicted I believe.

Plus it was opposed by The Challenge, which I thought had ended for the season?


----------



## Garty

Mr316 said:


> Well, I have to shut my mouth. This is an incredible number.


You should have done that a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time ago.


----------



## Garty

Hey it's a good thing Woody is sleeping. Wait 'til he wakes up and sees this! How is he ever going to spin this?! Maybe he'll just go back to sleep!!!


----------



## Joe Gill

cant wait for cornettes spin on these numbers.
i guess it was maybe a mistake for wwe to move nxt to another night.... all of a sudden the gap between aew and raw just shrunk dramatically.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Look at that sweet 50+ demo coming to the party finally


----------



## Fearless Viper

That's very impressive alright.


----------



## Prosper

3venflow said:


> Let's be honest, Tyson promoting the show two hours before it started probably helped a lot.
> 
> But that is a bigger jump than _anyone_ on here predicted I believe.
> 
> Plus it was opposed by The Challenge, which I thought had ended for the season?


Tyson for sure helped, so it'll be interesting to see what they do next week with no Tyson on the show. Last night's show was awesome though, and they booked a great card for next week, so I can definitely see cable people coming back.


----------



## TD Stinger

Geert Wilders said:


> Sorry, RAW just did 1.7 million viewers last week. Dynamite is only 500k viewers away.


The latest version of Raw did about 2.02 million. So, about 800k viewers. But still, closer than most thought.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

0.44 in the key demo is the nuts

that is what they did show 1


----------



## Whoanma

AEW is dying! AEW is dying!


----------



## Christopher Near

Big W


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

On another note, with the WWE releases.... Tony Khan is trending on twitter 

can this day get more surreal?


----------



## rbl85

Geert Wilders said:


> Was this the first unopposed


No but the other unopposed show weren't on Wednesdays


----------



## RainmakerV2

It was a good show they had a lot of their stars on. Keep the foot on the gas and keep the Ryan Nemeths of the world away from dynamite. More killer less filler.


----------



## Shock Street

Well my prediction of 740k was certainly a little low wasn't it


----------



## Prosper

If last nights show did 1.2mil, then I going 1.4mil for Blood and Guts.


----------



## Frost99

My reaction #OppositeofRAWratings #AEW








@*Whoanma luv the Lenny Brisco gif*


----------



## rbl85

3venflow said:


> Let's be honest, Tyson promoting the show two hours before it started probably helped a lot.
> 
> But that is a bigger jump than _anyone_ on here predicted I believe.
> 
> Plus it was opposed by The Challenge, which I thought had ended for the season?


Still 1 episode i believe


----------



## Ger

I am totally fine with 1.2M, but let's stay serious. Everything under 1M had been a mess!


----------



## DaSlacker

Damn! 

Well done to AEW. Literally 300,000 more viewers than I expected them to get. Better viewership than Impact Wrestling was getting on a Wednesday night in 2014, when Raw was hitting 4 million viewers. 

Hmmm thinking Vince McMahon and Paul Levsque have scored an own goal by turning Wednesday nights into a wrestling night LOL.


----------



## 3venflow

ONE MMA benefited from Dynamite's number too.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1382790201219637254


----------



## Geert Wilders

LifeInCattleClass said:


> On another note, with the WWE releases.... Tony Khan is trending on twitter
> 
> can this day get more surreal?


TNT show #2 will be coming soon. Then I cannot complain about the excessive roster. And maybe they will stop with the factions when this happens.


----------



## rbl85

Prosper said:


> If last nights show did 1.2mil, then I going 1.4mil for Blood and Guts.


Sadly it doesn't work that way.


----------



## 3venflow

NXT Evolve loading on Wednesday night...


----------



## rbl85

Geert Wilders said:


> TNT show #2 will be coming soon. Then I cannot complain about the excessive roster. And maybe they will stop with the factions when this happens.


The factions come from the fact that most of them were in NJPW and there is a lot of factions there.


----------



## Klitschko

3venflow said:


> AEW: 1.2m (0.44)
> 
> Holee shit.
> 
> LOOK AT THE 50+ and female upturn, that's the unopposed effect.
> 
> View attachment 100012


Holy shit. I'm happy I was wrong. I predicted 780k. Don't mess this up AEW.


----------



## qntntgood

ProjectGargano said:


> AEW is dying periodt


So 47 and 50 plus year old crowd showed up for aew, remember when this use to be diss toward nxt.


----------



## Geert Wilders

rbl85 said:


> Sadly it doesn't work that way.


Did they have a promotional vignette for blood and guts last night?


----------



## Prosper

Geert Wilders said:


> TNT show #2 will be coming soon. Then I cannot complain about the excessive roster. And maybe they will stop with the factions when this happens.


I honestly can't wait for that 2nd TNT show, that way Dynamite will be left to the heavy hitters


----------



## Impermanence

Garty said:


> Hey it's a good thing Woody is sleeping. Wait 'til he wakes up and sees this! How is he ever going to spin this?! Maybe he'll just go back to sleep!!!


Haha this is one of the funniest things I've read here.


----------



## La Parka

Good rating for AEW.

I'd wait before planning the superbowl parade, given AEW's history of dropping viewers.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

That’s an incredible number for AEW.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Fuck.....

May 5th - blood and guts

its gonna beat RAW in the ratings, isn’t it?


----------



## Geert Wilders

rbl85 said:


> The factions come from the fact that most of them were in NJPW and there is a lot of factions there.


Unfortunately, it has left me with a sour taste. Top tier wrestlers are stuck in factions and are not allowed time to thrive. 
if they could keep the factions and allow talent, such as Guevara, PAC, Starks etc to thrive, I will be very content.


----------



## rbl85

Geert Wilders said:


> Did they have a promotional vignette for blood and guts last night?


Not yet but they're probably preparing something really special for it


----------



## Prosper

Keep the momentum HOT going into DONIII, next week is strong, then the week after should hopefully be great, then one week after that we have Blood and Guts, then 3 additional weeks for the PPV build

I don't see the ratings dropping anytime between now and June seeing as they have to build to their biggest show


----------



## rbl85

Geert Wilders said:


> Unfortunately, it has left me with a sour taste. Top tier wrestlers are stuck in factions and are not allowed time to thrive.
> if they could keep the factions and allow talent, such as Guevara, PAC, Starks etc to thrive, I will be very content.


I think 1 or 2 factions is fine but more nope.


----------



## rbl85

Prosper said:


> Keep the momentum HOT going into DONIII, next week is strong, then the week after should hopefully be great, then one week after that we have Blood and Guts, then 3 additional weeks for the PPV build
> 
> I don't see the ratings dropping anytime between now and June seeing as they have to build to their biggest show


The ratings are probably going to drop a bit and then go up a bit like before.


----------



## Klitschko

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Fuck.....
> 
> May 5th - blood and guts
> 
> its gonna beat RAW in the ratings, isn’t it?


It won't. RAW just got a 2.0 this week and their average is 1.7 - 1.8. But if they keep this up, they could realistically get 1.3-1.5 which would be massive.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The factions are working

chaotic gang warfare with tons of match-ups is the stuff


----------



## PavelGaborik

Well done, last night's show was good, albeit I would cut down on the fuckery.


----------



## Garty

Prosper said:


> Keep the momentum HOT going into DONIII, next week is strong, then the week after should hopefully be great, then one week after that we have Blood and Guts, then 3 additional weeks for the PPV build
> 
> I don't see the ratings dropping anytime between now and June seeing as they have to build to their biggest show


Even I don't think they'll stay this high, but they'll definitely hover around 1 million each week.


----------



## Whoanma

AEW might just make it after all.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Klitschko said:


> It won't. RAW just got a 2.0 this week and their average is 1.7 - 1.8. But if they keep this up, they could realistically get 1.3-1.5 which would be massive.


mate, they could touch tips

raw has gone as low as 1.5 and aew has gone as high as 1.4

with releases etc + a massive main event - it can happen


----------



## TD Stinger

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Fuck.....
> 
> May 5th - blood and guts
> 
> its gonna beat RAW in the ratings, isn’t it?


We'll see. Raw just got a .71, a .69, and a .65 for all 3 hours of Raw on Monday, no doubt having to do with the post Mania boost.

I think for both shows we'll see if this is a blip or a trend.


----------



## RapShepard

Holly hell they killed it. Congrats to them and their fans


----------



## Prosper

rbl85 said:


> The ratings are probably going to drop a bit and then go up a bit like before.





Garty said:


> Even I don't think they'll stay this high, but they'll definitely hover around 1 million each week.


Yeah true just trying to stay optimistic lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

TD Stinger said:


> We'll see. Raw just got a .71, a .69, and a .65 for all 3 hours of Raw on Monday, no doubt having to do with the post Mania boost.
> 
> I think for both shows we'll see if this is a blip or a trend.


i’m just daydreaming about the possibility


----------



## Klitschko

LifeInCattleClass said:


> mate, they could touch tips
> 
> raw has gone as low as 1.5 and aew has gone as high as 1.4
> 
> with releases etc + a massive main event - it can happen


How often does AEW get 1.4, and how often has RAW gotten 1.5? Neither one has happened often. Not defending RAW at all. It's the worst wrestling show on television. Just trying to be realistic. It would be great if AEW can stay within 1-1.5 range. RAW will drop down to their level by Summerslam.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

I’d say this is a good indicator that AEW still has a good number of fans who also like NXT, and just happen to watch NXT first. Nothing at all wrong with that. NXT’s numbers would indicate that the opposite is true as well. But let me just slip in here, for anybody that may not have noticed, that AEW has more. 

This is a better jump than I expected. I’m happy for the company and all it’s workers. I enjoy their product, and apparently well over a million others do too, just not all at 8:00 on Wednesdays. Gotta wonder how many other fans are still recording and watching later that don’t factor into the official numbers.

Anyway, congrats to AEW for cracking a mil. Again.


----------



## PavelGaborik

Geert Wilders said:


> This is half of RAW. It is very impressive.


Math isn't your strong suit is it?


----------



## Prosper

Klitschko said:


> How often doea AEW get 1.4, and how often has RAW gotten 1.5? Neither one has happened often. Not defending RAW at all. It's the worst wrestling show on television. Just trying to be realistic. It would be great if AEW can stay within 1-1.5 range. RAW will drop down to their level by Summerslam.


I can see both shows being at around 1.5 by the end of the year, so yeah it will be a case of RAW dropping down


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> Let's be honest, Tyson promoting the show two hours before it started probably helped a lot.
> 
> But that is a bigger jump than _anyone_ on here predicted I believe.
> 
> Plus it was opposed by The Challenge, which I thought had ended for the season?





Prosper said:


> Tyson for sure helped, so it'll be interesting to see what they do next week with no Tyson on the show. Last night's show was awesome though, and they booked a great card for next week, so I can definitely see cable people coming back.


Don't give Tyson credit for that, that's on AEW having more fans that flipping channels than people thought


----------



## Klitschko

Genuenly though. Congrats to AEW. I was wrong.


----------



## Alright_Mate

HOLY SHIT!

Their most important rating to date and they come up big.

I was hoping 800-900k, that would have been a solid upgrade, to what we’ve been seeing.

1.2 million though, is exactly the type of rating they were doing last year, when they went unopposed. 

This shows that interest is still high, now get Tay Conti in a bra and panties match, then they’ll be beating WWE.


----------



## Geert Wilders

PavelGaborik said:


> Math isn't your strong suit is it?


I have not kept up-to-date with RAW ratings.


----------



## Kentucky34

It will be lower next week.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Klitschko said:


> How often does AEW get 1.4, and how often has RAW gotten 1.5? Neither one has happened often. Not defending RAW at all. It's the worst wrestling show on television. Just trying to be realistic. It would be great if AEW can stay within 1-1.5 range. RAW will drop down to their level by Summerslam.


no, i know its unrealistic - but if ever there was a magical night that it could happen

wouldn’t it be poetic that it is one using VKMs words, that they used for a match because VKM wouldn’t sell Cody ‘War Games’ ?

serendipity


----------



## Prosper

I can also see a nice little boost from crowds coming back in full attendance too, there's also that factor that no one is talking about.



Reggie Dunlop said:


> I’d say this is a good indicator that AEW still has a good number of fans who also like NXT, and just happen to watch NXT first. Nothing at all wrong with that. NXT’s numbers would indicate that the opposite is true as well. But let me just slip in here, for anybody that may not have noticed, that AEW has more.
> 
> This is a better jump than I expected. I’m happy for the company and all it’s workers. I enjoy their product, and apparently well over a million others do too, just not all at 8:00 on Wednesdays. Gotta wonder how many other fans are still recording and watching later that don’t factor into the official numbers.
> 
> Anyway, congrats to AEW for cracking a mil. Again.


And the thing is NXT is actually a pretty good show, I've been loving it lately, so yeah nothing wrong with that at all.


----------



## rbl85

Reggie Dunlop said:


> I’d say this is a good indicator that AEW still has a good number of fans who also like NXT, and just happen to watch NXT first. Nothing at all wrong with that. NXT’s numbers would indicate that the opposite is true as well. But let me just slip in here, for anybody that may not have noticed, that AEW has more.
> 
> This is a better jump than I expected. I’m happy for the company and all it’s workers. I enjoy their product, and apparently well over a million others do too, just not all at 8:00 on Wednesdays. Gotta wonder how many other fans are still recording and watching later that don’t factor into the official numbers.
> 
> Anyway, congrats to AEW for cracking a mil. Again.


Some people watched NXT first because they've been watching NXT for years


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Mamma mia that's a delicious rating.

I was hoping for 850k to be honest, incredible. I imagine it'll drop a little over time - which wouldn't be a disaster as this is much higher than expected - but this is a great opportunity for AEW to try and capitalise upon.


----------



## Klitschko

Alright_Mate said:


> This shows that interest is still high, now get Tay Conti in a bra and panties match, then they’ll be beating WWE.


That's not only thing getting beat if they put Tay in a bra and panties match.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> Some people watched NXT first because they've been watching NXT for years


Which I still don't get with it being on the Network


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

This shows the figures of the 7+ days of 1.2m DVR we‘ve been getting was correct


----------



## DaSlacker

Klitschko said:


> How often does AEW get 1.4, and how often has RAW gotten 1.5? Neither one has happened often. Not defending RAW at all. It's the worst wrestling show on television. Just trying to be realistic. It would be great if AEW can stay within 1-1.5 range. RAW will drop down to their level by Summerslam.


I'm fairness that debut episode would probably have been nearer 2 million had they been unopposed.


----------



## 3venflow

Kentucky34 said:


> It will be lower next week.


Well, no shit. But if that's going to be the new stick to beat AEW with, it's a pretty weak one.

They have just gone from 688,000 to over 1,200,000 in a week, there is no way to negatively spin that.

Even if it drops to 900k next week, that'll be good for AEW after the recent five-week drop.


----------



## Prosper

Klitschko said:


> That's not only thing getting beat if they put Tay in a bra and panties match.


----------



## Geert Wilders

I am watching now; I would like to see the quarter ratings, as I genuinely believe the first match lost them viewers (especially the casuals). However, the last match would have got people back. It was an enjoyable match.


----------



## Klitschko

Breakdown should be really interesting.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Prosper said:


>


me and my meat while watching the match


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> Which I still don't get with it being on the Network


Maybe the people who watched it illegaly were able to watch live on USA.


----------



## Klitschko

LifeInCattleClass said:


> me and my meat while watching the match


----------



## Alright_Mate

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1382786647545290759


----------



## Klitschko

Can't wait to see @The Wood piss everyone off in here with a "it's still less than the average 1.5 million wrestling fans that were watching both shows on wednesdays" line lol.


----------



## Londonlaw

Can’t sniff at that number, and based on this, I was wrong about how the it would shake out.

If these numbers stay consistent (800k-1m weekly), I may have to either accept my tastes in wrestling are truly dying out or simply move the goalposts and start demanding they draw more viewers 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Geert Wilders

Did the show have Orange Cassidy? It may be time to have him in a more prominent role, again. Was he not drawing 1 million viewers (opposed) at one point?


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> Maybe the people who watched it illegaly were able to watch live on USA.


Now that you say it that makes some sense. Good point


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

I predicted 1.2 million.. missed it by that much.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Geert Wilders said:


> Did the show have Orange Cassidy? It may be time to have him in a more prominent role, again. Was he not drawing 1 million viewers (opposed) at one point?


Only at ringside for the Statlander match. On this note, it's interesting that Moxley wasn't even on the show


----------



## qntntgood

Klitschko said:


> Can't wait to see @The Wood piss everyone off in here with a "it's still less than the average 1.5 million wrestling fans that were watching both shows on wednesdays" line lol.


Like I said, the forty seven and fifty plus crowd showed up big for aew.which means the average wrestling fan, isn't getting any younger.so what happened to rating didn't matter,it's all about demo's ?


----------



## Swan-San

Raw is awful and gets 1.8. AEW is awful and gets 1.2. I want an actual good TV show with good storylines and good characters, beat raw and prosper. Good rating but it can be at least raw level if it wasn't so amatuerly booked.


----------



## Prosper

Geert Wilders said:


> Did the show have Orange Cassidy? It may be time to have him in a more prominent role, again. Was he not drawing 1 million viewers (opposed) at one point?


Please no more Orange Cassidy in prominent roles lol. I mean it would make sense but please no.


----------



## Prosper

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1382787446669135874

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1382787762940747776


----------



## Klitschko

qntntgood said:


> Like I said, the forty seven and fifty plus crowd showed up big for aew.which means the average wrestling fan, isn't getting any younger.so what happened to rating didn't matter,it's all about demo's ?


Idk about them, but I personally have never mentioned demo numbers. I only ever care about viewership. But I see your point. 




Swan-San said:


> Raw is awful and gets 1.8. AEW is awful and gets 1.2. I want an actual good TV show with good storylines and good characters, beat raw and prosper. Good rating but it can be at least raw level if it wasn't so amatuerly booked.


Try Smackdown. Granted, it's mainly carried by a well thought out main storyline, but its a solid show.


----------



## Whoanma

Prosper said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1382787446669135874


Happy F*cks.


----------



## Impermanence

This is terrible news actually. When a terrible show/product is watched and lauded by a million viewers, that's a sign that there won't even be any incentive to improve or change things now. Every week this 800k-1.2M viewership will be lauded and used as a justification that the show is great while it's not even good.


----------



## Outlaw91

Congratulations! I didn't see it coming honestly. I hope they will not fuck this up and keep it over 1 million weekly. I will also have to watch the show again more seriously. 
It must be like Christmas and his birthday at the same time for Tony Khan with WWE also starting the releases season today.


----------



## rich110991

Get the fuck in!!!


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## Prosper

With the Challenge ending this week, AEW could get that #1 spot. TNT should be pumped.



El Hammerstone said:


> Only at ringside for the Statlander match. On this note, it's interesting that Moxley wasn't even on the show


No Cody, Kenny Omega, Riho (who has drawn good numbers before) or Britt Baker in the ring either.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Prosper said:


> Please no more Orange Cassidy in prominent roles lol. I mean it would make sense but please no.


I think he has a place on the show. Not against upper talent like Jericho; but surely he can be given lighthearted feuds with talent, such as John Silver, Hurricane Helms etc. Two popular wrestlers who I'm sure would have chemistry. Could even have them team up to job. Wrestling should be a good balance between humour and seriousness.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Impermanence said:


> This is terrible news actually. When a terrible show/product is watched and lauded by a million viewers, that's a sign that there won't even be any incentive to improve or change things now. Every week this 800k-1.2M viewership will be lauded and used as a justification that the show is great while it's not even good.


You can cry more! "Terrible" lol


----------



## TD Stinger

What I'm about to say is very obvious, but with the number being this high this week it feels like a big case of a lot of people who hadn't tuned into AEW before or who didn't tune into AEW regularly tuning in last night with it being officially unopposed for the first time. Plus Tyson being there probably helped a bit too. So I'll be interested to see how many new fans they retain going forward.

I was originally predicting they would settle at 850k per episode eventually. Looks like I'll have to adjust that, lol.


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## 3venflow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1382789624041472003


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

qntntgood said:


> Like I said, the forty seven and fifty plus crowd showed up big for aew.which means the average wrestling fan, isn't getting any younger.so what happened to rating didn't matter,it's all about demo's ?


the demo is still the only thing that matters

good news, they did amazing there too


----------



## Geert Wilders

3venflow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1382789624041472003


She missed the table altogether 🤣


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

La Parka said:


> Good rating for AEW.
> 
> I'd wait before planning the superbowl parade, given AEW's history of dropping viewers.


These were people that were already watching just on DVR because they preferred to watch NXT live. AEW does 1.4 million in day+7


----------



## Impermanence

ProjectGargano said:


> You can cry more! "Terrible" lol


It's better to be a man dissatisfied than a hundred pigs satisfied.

A man doesn't celebrate mediocrity, let alone celebrate something so lacklustre and devoid of substance.


----------



## One Shed

Obviously this is a huge success! Great number!


----------



## Geert Wilders

Impermanence said:


> It's better to be a man dissatisfied than a hundred pigs satisfied.
> 
> A man doesn't celebrate mediocrity, let alone celebrate something so lacklustre and devoid of substance.


It is nice to see that AEW still has interest. 

I was concerned that people have lost interest and AEW would become another niche product, like ROH, NWA or iMPACT. However, the base is still there and we now know they might have something to build upon. The product _must_ be better. This should be encouraging for all.


----------



## rich110991

They need to come up with a big segment/match to advertise next week!


----------



## Outlaw91

Impermanence said:


> It's better to be a man dissatisfied than a hundred pigs satisfied.
> 
> A man doesn't celebrate mediocrity, let alone celebrate something so lacklustre and devoid of substance.


Well someone also have to do the crying, thanks for sacrificing yourself for all of us!


----------



## Geert Wilders

rich110991 said:


> They need to come up with a big segment/match to advertise next week!


Do you believe that this week's show was good enough to retain at least 80% of these viewers?

It may be a case of AEW flopping hard next week. This should show Tony khan that the current product is overall not good.


----------



## Prosper

rich110991 said:


> They need to come up with a big segment/match to advertise next week!




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1382702777399398401
That's what we got so far, strong card. I would add a Pinnacle segment and advertise a Moxley appearance.

Hikaru Shida vs Tay Conti will probably main event unless they announce something else.


----------



## rich110991

Prosper said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1382702777399398401
> That's what we got so far, strong card. I would add a Pinnacle segment and advertise a Moxley appearance.


Yeah I was thinking the same. Need to advertise Mox, Pinnacle/IC and Kenny.


----------



## Alright_Mate

Producing 1.2 million for an episode that was far from perfect, should be looked on as a positive as well.

This is an important stepping stone, now they have to build on this with consistency, showcase your best talent, then the show should continue to prosper.

I’m interested to see what rating Darby Allin vs Matt Hardy produced, the gritty NO DQ type wrestling has earned them big ratings in the past, Young Bucks vs Butcher & Blade and Best Friends vs Santana & Ortiz spring to mind.


----------



## Shock Street

Two Sheds said:


> Obviously this is a huge success! Great number!


I didn't think the number was gonna change beyond maybe like 50 to 100k, this is wayyyy more than I'd ever expect. I'm sure Tyson tweeting made a difference, now we just wait to see if people liked what they saw.


----------



## 3venflow

I guess this could be considered a sort of second debut for AEW since it was the start of the 'unopposed era' after they won the Wednesday Night Wars. As such I'd expect the rating to drop next week but if they can keep it near the 1m range that'd be great. Their ratings are already good for cable, regardless of what is said on here by some, and the 18-49 demo also shooting up shouldn't be overlooked as that's super-important.

I've often cited the unopposed show they ran last year with Brodie vs. Dustin and a weak undercard doing over 1m as how impacted they were by NXT. Even when shows did around 800k, you'd get the odd moment hitting over a million, showing the potential viewership.


----------



## Bliss316

Joe Gill said:


> cant wait for cornettes spin on these numbers.
> i guess it was maybe a mistake for wwe to move nxt to another night.... all of a sudden the gap between aew and raw just shrunk dramatically.


Oh man if AEW ever beats Raw That might actally kill Vince or light a fire under his ass and start caring about Raw again.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

RainmakerV2 said:


> It was a good show they had a lot of their stars on. Keep the foot on the gas and keep the Ryan Nemeths of the world away from dynamite. More killer less filler.


I agree. Work guys like Miro, Archer, SAMOA FN JOE, etc..in instead of the Janellas and Nemeths.

Khan needs to make an unreal announcement for next week, just go for it. Sign Punk. GO FOR IT.


----------



## La Parka

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> These were people that were already watching just on DVR because they preferred to watch NXT live. AEW does 1.4 million in day+7


Time will tell if that theory is correct.


----------



## The Wood

Everyone called the number going up. Not by what it did, but let’s not pretend this is an earned number or that this is definitely going to be their audience from now on. They have to keep that audience and GROW it.

I’m going to be more surprised if the number goes up next week than at what they did this week.

It’s always amusing to see the people who think the viewership equates to the number of people who liked the show. It’s an undeniable fact that the live audience for this _has_ to be a number of people who don’t normally watch via that method. You can’t count them among the AEW faithful just yet.


----------



## Klitschko

rich110991 said:


> Yeah I was thinking the same. Need to advertise Mox, Pinnacle/IC and Kenny.


Not Kenny lol. We want the ratings to go up, not down.


----------



## Bliss316

Prosper said:


> If last nights show did 1.2mil, then I going 1.4mil for Blood and Guts.


hell let's get greedy and go for 2 Million!


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## Dark Emperor

I don't watch AEW but that's a nice rating.

It's too big a bump to be all NXT viewers. Did Tyson really promote that heavily? 680k to 1.2m is a massive jump.

WIll be interesting to see how much they retain and if they can now stay above 1m consistently.


----------



## kingfunkel

The moving of NXT. Y2J dropping the BS, getting serious and also doing that podcast. I haven't seen the show due to it airing on Friday in the UK. Hope it was good enough to keep a large majority of that number next week. 

Unless they credit that awful 6 man main event last week. With the god awful acting and then shove the bullet club down our throat.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Prosper said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1382702777399398401
> That's what we got so far, strong card. I would add a Pinnacle segment and advertise a Moxley appearance.
> 
> Hikaru Shida vs Tay Conti will probably main event unless they announce something else.


RICKY STARKS IN A MATCH HOLY SHIT

they've been listening to my annoyance on the gram


----------



## Klitschko

Geert Wilders said:


> RICKY STARKS IN A MATCH HOLY SHIT
> 
> they've been listening to my annoyance on the gram


Not just Starks. My fat boy Will Hobbs is also in a match. Getting a big rub from his Christian match.


----------



## Prosper

Geert Wilders said:


> RICKY STARKS IN A MATCH HOLY SHIT
> 
> they've been listening to my annoyance on the gram


He should definitely be in the ring more, so should Wardlow.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I think they need to work out more appearances for Tyson. He actually fits here and I could see him doing things with Ogogo down the line.

Don't screw it up Tony, pay that cash!!!


----------



## yeahright2

The results are in for our prediction game
AEW Ratings prediction game

No one was even close this week. We all expected a little bump, but damn. It´s almost like every person who watched NXT on Wednesdays said "meh.. let´s check out that Dynamite thing.."
The real challenge now is for AEW to keep those viewers. -what´s next weeks card? And please, somebody post it in the prediction thread too? thanks.


----------



## shandcraig

Glad they got a big bump regardless why it happened. I guess it's hard to say exactly if it was not move or Tyson or both. Let's see next week's rating


----------



## qntntgood

Impermanence said:


> This is terrible news actually. When a terrible show/product is watched and lauded by a million viewers, that's a sign that there won't even be any incentive to improve or change things now. Every week this 800k-1.2M viewership will be lauded and used as a justification that the show is great while it's not even good.


The show needs impovments,I said earlier it would get a million viewers. but it doesn't change the fact the audience isn't getting any younger, and wrestling in general is not growing.


----------



## rbl85

I think we can all agree on the fact that Vince is very clever man putting NXT on the same night than AEW.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Nice to see so much positivity and not to put a dampner on it but I expect a notable drop off next week, but we'll see. If they can keep it over a million with a strong demo that's a solid position to be in imo



Klitschko said:


> Not just Starks. My fat boy Will Hobbs is also in a match. Getting a big rub from his Christian match.


We're going to win you back as an AEW fan I can see it now 🤩


----------



## Christopher Near

Klitschko said:


> Holy shit. I'm happy I was wrong. I predicted 780k. Don't mess this up AEW.


Gotta bring in mox, omega or whoever next week. Keep the momentum going


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> I think we can all agree on the fact that Vince is very clever man putting NXT on the same night than AEW.


That’s not clever. That’s pretty common sensical. Also, AEW put Dynamite on the same night as NXT.

What would be _smarter_ is giving AEW an unopposed stint to expose them to whatever part of the audience isn’t paying attention already, then come in with something stronger when the new car smell is gone. Not that I think this is a Vince decision. But there are smarter strategies still to play.


----------



## VIP86

this is not a good number

this is an amazing number

i'm praying to whatever power in the universe for Dynamite to beat RAW even for only one week.
i just want to see the look on HHH's dumb face


----------



## Impermanence

The Wood said:


> What would be _smarter_ is giving AEW an unopposed stint to expose them to whatever part of the audience isn’t paying attention already, then come in with something stronger when the new car smell is gone. Not that I think this is a Vince decision. But there are smarter strategies still to play.


That's brilliant. Quite a way to first let the enemy foolishly and erroneously believe they're mighty, and then crush them when they're least expecting it. Probably this strategy is covered by Sun Tzu, or Robert Greene in the 48 Laws of Power.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

They won’t drop off in the next few weeks / Challenge is coming to an end next week it seems

so, might be a slight drop, but then its full steam heading into DON with blood and guts


----------



## 3venflow

Best AEW Dynamite total viewers

1. 10/2/2019 - 1,409,000 (debut episode)
2. *4/14/2021* - 1,219,000
3. 10/9/2019 - 1,140,000
4. 9/9/2020 - 1,016,000
5. 10/16/2019 - 1,014,000

Best AEW Dynamite key demos (18-49)

1. 10/2/2019 - 0.68 (debut episode)
2. 10/9/2019 - 0.51
3. 10/23/2019 & 12/9/2020 - 0.45
4. 10/16/2019 & *4/14/2021* - 0.44
5. 11/13/2019 - 0.43

Key demo remains the most important thing, but obviously total viewers counts for something.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Not really surprised. I said when NXT moved that they'd be doing 1.1-1.2 million viewers. With Raw continuing to bleed their audience every year, within 3 years AEW Dynamite will be the most watched wrestling show in the US. They'll be #1 in demo sooner than that


----------



## The Wood

shandcraig said:


> Glad they got a big bump regardless why it happened. I guess it's hard to say exactly if it was not move or Tyson or both. Let's see next week's rating


I think we may be overlooking the Tyson factor a little. Dude is a legitimate household name. It will be very interesting to see what holds next week.


----------



## Geeee

Prosper said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1382702777399398401
> That's what we got so far, strong card. I would add a Pinnacle segment and advertise a Moxley appearance.
> 
> Hikaru Shida vs Tay Conti will probably main event unless they announce something else.


I'm honestly more excited for next week's card than I was for this week's. Although this is more of an AEW fan's card than a casual fan's card. Starks vs Hangman feels like a preview of a future PPV main event

Also, this rating was very crazy. I didn't expect that much.


----------



## Mister Sinister

As always, they won't keep that audience.


----------



## rich110991

Mister Sinister said:


> As always, they won't keep that audience.


Thanks for that ray of sunshine


----------



## RapShepard

The Wood said:


> Everyone called the number going up. Not by what it did, but let’s not pretend this is an earned number or that this is definitely going to be their audience from now on. They have to keep that audience and GROW it.
> 
> I’m going to be more surprised if the number goes up next week than at what they did this week.
> 
> It’s always amusing to see the people who think the viewership equates to the number of people who liked the show. It’s an undeniable fact that the live audience for this _has_ to be a number of people who don’t normally watch via that method. You can’t count them among the AEW faithful just yet.


Can you not just give them props for a good number lol. If you don't want to constantly be seen as a hater sometimes you got to just give them props. 

Also how can you say it's an unearned number. When fans say they deserve more you say they have to earn it. So you can't now turn around and say the don't deserve the number they got. That's being very biased and unfair


----------



## The Wood

rich110991 said:


> Thanks for that ray of sunshine


It’s not unreasonable though. The number of people doing “happy dances” and responding to straw-man statements nobody _ever_ made like this number is somehow, in and of itself, validating, kind of warrants a reality check.


----------



## holy

I've been quite critical of AEW lately, but I'll eat my words. 1.2 million viewers, and that too almost doubling their audience from last week, is a fantastic number!


----------



## CenaFan247

Mike Tyson bringing in dem ratings. Congrats to AEW, last nights show was better than anything trash RAW has put out in months


----------



## Klitschko

The Wood said:


> It’s not unreasonable though. The number of people doing “happy dances” and responding to straw-man statements nobody _ever_ made like this number is somehow, in and of itself, validating, kind of warrants a reality check.


People are just happy that they got their biggest number since the debut episode. Let them have it.


----------



## shandcraig

The Wood said:


> I think we may be overlooking the Tyson factor a little. Dude is a legitimate household name. It will be very interesting to see what holds next week.


For sure but he was there the week before. I guess with no announcement it was him right ? I forget


----------



## Impermanence

holy said:


> I've been quite critical of AEW lately, but I'll eat my words. 1.2 million viewers, and that too almost doubling their audience from last week, is a fantastic number!


Why would you eat your words? Them getting 1.2M viewers doesn't mean they're automatically good or that it negates all your past criticism against them, or the collective criticism of them. 

It's like if Raw suddenly started getting 2.5 M viewers, I wouldn't be any less critical of it, nor would I even be surprised. Raw would still continue to seem like a pile of crap, regardless of whether they get 1.5 or 2.5 M viewers.


----------



## The Wood

RapShepard said:


> Can you not just give them props for a good number lol. If you don't want to constantly be seen as a hater sometimes you got to just give them props.
> 
> Also how can you say it's an unearned number. When fans say they deserve more you say they have to earn it. So you can't now turn around and say the don't deserve the number they got. That's being very biased and unfair


I don’t think any wrestling show is doing a good number for wrestling. Shows about wrestling have the capability to draw more, lol. Sorry if it sounds cynical, but 1.2 million just makes me think about how wrestling fans celebrate the smallest things.

It’s much more of an increase than I expected, but that’s not because there is this genuine love and appreciation for the product. That’s all I mean by “earned.” This is a chance they have unopposed. It’s people sampling. This isn’t “holy shit, AEW is suddenly good now” like some people actually seem to be positioning this as (although it may just be their fandom walking out a bit). But the number they got for this show is the number they got for this show. It’s not really dependent on the show (or Tyson). At least not this week.


----------



## VIP86

although the number is amazing
but the real question now, can they stay at this level for several months
because now the pressure is actually a lot more than before the move
now they don't have the competition excuse to fall back to if the numbers dwindled

they desperately need an experienced booker that knows how to build stars that can keep the audience engaged


----------



## 3venflow

Why is the pressure on when they weren't expected to do 1.2m anyway? They could drop back down to 800k / 0.30 and still be in the top 5 for Turner as one of their top originals. Turner have greenlit a second show on the basis of what AEW drew throughout 2019 and 2020. Going up as cable TV is going down is bucking the trend.

People are always looking to move the goal posts. If they hit 1.5m, it'd be like 'now they have to hit 2m or else...'. Next week if they drop to 900k or 1m, I can see it now: "AEW has failed, lulz"

Certain people on here said just weeks ago they'd never, under any circumstances, hit 1m again. Those same people are now writing a new narrative.


----------



## holy

Impermanence said:


> Why would you eat your words? Them getting 1.2M viewers doesn't mean they're automatically good or that it negates all your past criticism against them, or the collective criticism of them.
> 
> It's like if Raw suddenly started getting 2.5 M viewers, I wouldn't be any less critical of it, nor would I even be surprised. Raw would still continue to seem like a pile of crap, regardless of whether they get 1.5 or 2.5 M viewers.


Eat my words in the sense that I was predicting that Dynamite would stay in the 800K range even after being solo on Wednesday nights. I was totally wrong. 

But yes, agreed that the criticisms toward Dynamite should not be ignored! In fact, they can get closer to Raw's viewership if they work on their flaws.


----------



## DammitChrist

Oh, never mind. I just caught the part where he conceded.

This is what happens when I'm 10 pages behind :lol


----------



## rich110991

Just let us AEW fans be happy 😂 I’m sure you’ll be here next week to rub it in if the ratings drop.


----------



## RapShepard

The Wood said:


> *I don’t think any wrestling show is doing a good number for wrestling. Shows about wrestling have the capability to draw more, lol.* Sorry if it sounds cynical, but 1.2 million just makes me think about how wrestling fans celebrate the smallest things.
> 
> *It’s much more of an increase than I expected, but that’s not because there is this genuine love and appreciation for the product.* That’s all I mean by “earned.” This is a chance they have unopposed. It’s people sampling. This isn’t “holy shit, AEW is suddenly good now” like some people actually seem to be positioning this as (although it may just be their fandom walking out a bit). But the number they got for this show is the number they got for this show. It’s not really dependent on the show (or Tyson). At least not this week.


1. I challenge you to give a realistic number on what you think each wrestling product should roughly be getting each week. I want you to come to that number by using current TV trends and not passed on what TV numbers did 3 years ago let alone 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago. 

2. Why can't you just say damn that's a great number, without then shitting on them. Also is it not possible that since NXT was on those viewers had heard good things via word of mouth and decided to check it out. Clearly there's some level of interest in them given the significant jump. 

3. Does it mean that they'll continue to get this numbe forever of course not. Most folk that are happy have acknowledge that this may be a one off and AEW has to work hard to maintain or keep around this. But yes they're going to take a dunk on naysayers because they got a big number. It's no different than how you would've said "see I told you so" if they had a small gain or god forbid a major drop.


----------



## Whoanma

3venflow said:


> Certain people on here said just weeks ago they'd never, under any circumstances, hit 1m again. Those same people are now writing a new narrative.


----------



## ShadowCounter

The Wood said:


> I think we may be overlooking the Tyson factor a little. Dude is a legitimate household name. It will be very interesting to see what holds next week.


But Tyson was on last week as well and that did nothing for the ratings. So why should he get any credit now?


----------



## DammitChrist

Honestly, I'm actually kinda excited to see the quarterly breakdowns for this week 

There's no doubt that Darby Allin held up the viewership really well here! He usually does strongly in episodes where he closes. It helps that he had an opponent that many wrestling fans are very familiar with in Matt Hardy.

Hell, I wouldn't even be surprised if the 2nd hour was higher this week, or retained viewership really well at least.

It also featured Mike Tyson, Christian Cage, and Chris Jericho too as advertised acts.


----------



## holy

I saw Dave Meltzer mention this, and it's something I thought of myself earlier...what if the huge gain in viewership had partly to do with Jericho being on the Stone Cold show?


----------



## Wolf Mark

rbl85 said:


> I think we can all agree on the fact that Vince is very clever man putting NXT on the same night than AEW.


Logically he should have kept it there. But I guess this was HHH's baby and wanted NXT to grow. 

But if some think that anything on Dynamite is responsible for the rating bump are fooling themselves.


----------



## DammitChrist

Kentucky34 said:


> It will be lower next week.


It's fine if they do go lower. 

They just need to make sure that they don't (ever) dip lower than 800 K viewers unopposed.


----------



## Wolf Mark

ShadowCounter said:


> But Tyson was on last week as well and that did nothing for the ratings. So why should he get any credit now?


Yea in my opinion it's all on NXT not being there, not the content of the show.


----------



## Bliss316

holy said:


> I saw Dave Meltzer mention this, and it's something I thought of myself earlier...what if the huge gain in viewership had partly to do with Jericho being on the Stone Cold show?


thats could very well be true it gave AEW a big plug to fans that might not of known AEW was a thing which is why I'm shock Vince allowed it to happen cause he would had never allowed it with WCW or TNA back in the day.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Geert Wilders said:


> Did the show have Orange Cassidy? It may be time to have him in a more prominent role, again. Was he not drawing 1 million viewers (opposed) at one point?


Nope. The whole angle between him and Jericho were mostly rating losers. It got better at the end but back then I checked all quarter ratings and reported them back here, in these forums and they kept being beaten by NXT. And yet somehow OC is seen as a rating juggernaut because Twitter thinks he's the shit.


----------



## Bubbly2

Wow, brilliant rating. Let's see what it is next week.


----------



## DammitChrist

Prosper said:


> With the Challenge ending this week, AEW could get that #1 spot. TNT should be pumped.
> 
> 
> 
> No Cody, Kenny Omega, Riho (who has drawn good numbers before) or Britt Baker in the ring either.


Yep, I'll recap what you said just here.

Jon Moxley was absent this week.

Cody Rhodes was absent this week.

Eddie Kingston was absent this week.

Kenny Omega (who's the AEW World Champion) had very limited TV time.

Hikaru Shida (who's the AEW Women's World Champion) was mostly absent this week (aside from that short ad for next week).

Britt Baker had very limited TV time.

Thunder Rosa had very limited TV time.

Riho is still absent atm.

Overall, they got this BIG number late into the pandemic with limited crowds atm at the same old venue since last year.

AEW is still yet to reach their full potential growth-wise. They're off to a really good start here


----------



## Geert Wilders

Wolf Mark said:


> Nope. The whole angle between him and Jericho were mostly rating losers. It got better at the end but back then I checked all quarter ratings and reported them back here, in these forums and they kept being beaten by NXT. And yet somehow OC is seen as a rating juggernaut because Twitter thinks he's the shit.











This Controversial AEW Star Drew Over 1 Million Viewers Last Week


Dynamite's peak viewership came from an interesting source.




whatculture.com













411MANIA | Orange Cassidy Tops Most Viewed AEW Videos of 2020


Clips featuring Orange Cassidy are among the most popular ones for AEW last year. You can check out the full top 30 list right here and now.




411mania.com





unfortunately, i've had debates about OC's drawing ability with losers on twitter and the gram and i do not wish to repeat those same debates here


----------



## Wolf Mark

Geert Wilders said:


> This Controversial AEW Star Drew Over 1 Million Viewers Last Week
> 
> 
> Dynamite's peak viewership came from an interesting source.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whatculture.com


Maybe you should re-read my post. I say that he did that toward the end of the angle. But most of the angles between Jericho and OC/Best Friends did not do well. I basically followed all of it from June 2020 and on.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Quite surprised, but that's a positive result. They better learn how to keep the viewership up though.


----------



## holy

Bliss316 said:


> thats could very well be true it gave AEW a big plug to fans that might not of known AEW was a thing which is why I'm shock Vince allowed it to happen cause he would had never allowed it with WCW or TNA back in the day.


What if it's Vince's masterplan to butter Jericho up by letting him do things like appear on Austin's show so that he can come back to WWE? 😂


----------



## Prince of Thieves

Huge number!!!
It appears wrestling is booming again.
Friday 1# network tv
Monday 1# cable
Tuesday 8# cable
Wednesday 2# cable


----------



## Bliss316

holy said:


> What if it's Vince's masterplan to butter Jericho up by letting him do things like appear on Austin's show so that he can come back to WWE? 😂


lol and backfires as it grows AEW fanbase where they end up beating Raw. one day. Man I tell you if AEW ever does beat Raw one week I love to see Vince's reaction cause that may just kill him or light a fire under his ass and he starts caring about his product again.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Wolf Mark said:


> Yea in my opinion it's all on NXT not being there, not the content of the show.


That's most of it. It's not rocket science. AEW was normally getting 800,000 each night even against NXT. Remove NXT's 650,000 viewers, and it's no surprise they got up to 1.2 mils. The fact they basically pulled 70% of NXT's viewers is impressive though.

The show wasn't even that big. Their best performers like Brit Baker and others weren't even on it.


----------



## NXT Only

Well I guess we were right the whole time. So much for AEW “losing half their audience” 

AEW is on fire right now. Can’t wait to see what’s next.


----------



## omaroo

Brilliant rating and shocked honestly. Even unopposed didn't see them getting such a number. 

Rating could drop next week. 

But if AEW gets 900k-1 million every week unopposed will still be mightly impressive.


----------



## Not Lying

This is a huge number! I love it.
Mike Tyson definitely helped, but on the flip side their most consistent draw Moxley wasn't on the show.
If they don't make the same mistakes as before and put out some 90% filler card in the next 2 weeks then they should maintain this. Full Crowds aren't even back yet!

Also, Darby is a star.




NXT Only said:


> Well I guess we were right the whole time. *So much for AEW “losing half their* audience”


damn right


----------



## omaroo

I will add 1.5 million wouldn't be too far off but won't happen for some time imo. 

If they put the best talent on and best possible cards most weeks then they should hopefully grow the audience. 

They really need to capitalise on this and keep moving forward and sustaining the growth.


----------



## chronoxiong

Congrats on the 1 million viewers milestone AEW!


----------



## Wolf Mark

NXT Only said:


> Well I guess we were right the whole time. So much for AEW “losing half their audience”
> 
> AEW is on fire right now. Can’t wait to see what’s next.


They're not on fire, they had 685 viewers the week before, one of the worst in the company's history. Just thank NXT for moving and be humble about it. Because that's reality.


----------



## NXT Only

Wolf Mark said:


> They're not on fire, they had 685 viewers the week before, one of the worst in the company's history. Just thank NXT for moving and be humble about it. Because that's reality.


Look at you, emotional.


----------



## Chan Hung

Well i was off. I predicted around 775,000. They got 1.2, that is good, i hope they can hold on to most of that, in fact better yet grow that number. Just as long as they dont fuck it up.


----------



## Prince of Thieves

The Wood said:


> I think we may be overlooking the Tyson factor a little. Dude is a legitimate household name. It will be very interesting to see what holds next week.


Tyson last week; 600k
Tyson this week; 1.2 million

Keep clutching bub


----------



## Prince of Thieves

The Wood said:


> Everyone called the number going up. Not by what it did, but let’s not pretend this is an earned number or that this is definitely going to be their audience from now on. They have to keep that audience and GROW it.
> 
> I’m going to be more surprised if the number goes up next week than at what they did this week.
> 
> It’s always amusing to see the people who think the viewership equates to the number of people who liked the show. It’s an undeniable fact that the live audience for this _has_ to be a number of people who don’t normally watch via that method. You can’t count them among the AEW faithful just yet.


Going forward will be higher for special episodes.


----------



## Prince of Thieves

The Wood said:


> That’s not clever. That’s pretty common sensical. Also, AEW put Dynamite on the same night as NXT.
> 
> What would be _smarter_ is giving AEW an unopposed stint to expose them to whatever part of the audience isn’t paying attention already, then come in with something stronger when the new car smell is gone. Not that I think this is a Vince decision. But there are smarter strategies still to play.


Company is two years old & anyway everybody can see how much competition impacts ratings. Just eat crow, you got it wrong


----------



## DaSlacker

omaroo said:


> I will add 1.5 million wouldn't be too far off but won't happen for some time imo.
> 
> If they put the best talent on and best possible cards most weeks then they should hopefully grow the audience.
> 
> They really need to capitalise on this and keep moving forward and sustaining the growth.


Being back on the road, in big arenas, will give them that Premier League feel again. Wrestlemania and what I saw of Raw was like night and day. Plus, AEW's production style is a lot more palatable than WWE's over produced approach imo.

It will also act as a mini reboot as sorts because Dark and Elevation were unlikely to be as they are now.


----------



## Prince of Thieves

qntntgood said:


> The show needs impovments,I said earlier it would get a million viewers. but it doesn't change the fact the audience isn't getting any younger, and wrestling in general is not growing.


Increase in demo means audience got younger. Demo equals demographics & 18 - 49 are an age bracket. Simples


----------



## Prince of Thieves

shandcraig said:


> Glad they got a big bump regardless why it happened. I guess it's hard to say exactly if it was not move or Tyson or both. Let's see next week's rating


So we ignoring Tyson doing 600k last week?!


----------



## omaroo

DaSlacker said:


> Being back on the road, in big arenas, will give them that Premier League feel again. Wrestlemania and what I saw of Raw was like night and day. Plus, AEW's production style is a lot more palatable than WWE's over produced approach imo.
> 
> It will also act as a mini reboot as sorts because Dark and Elevation were unlikely to be as they are now.


That's true. 

Crowd always makes everything look like a big deal. 

Seems August/September is likely when they will be touring again. So not too far away.


----------



## Prince of Thieves

TD Stinger said:


> What I'm about to say is very obvious, but with the number being this high this week it feels like a big case of a lot of people who hadn't tuned into AEW before or who didn't tune into AEW regularly tuning in last night with it being officially unopposed for the first time. Plus Tyson being there probably helped a bit too. So I'll be interested to see how many new fans they retain going forward.
> 
> I was originally predicting they would settle at 850k per episode eventually. Looks like I'll have to adjust that, lol.


With dvr numbers as they are don't think many casuals made up audience.


----------



## holy

Bliss316 said:


> lol and backfires as it grows AEW fanbase where they end up beating Raw. one day. Man I tell you if AEW ever does beat Raw one week I love to see Vince's reaction cause that may just kill him or light a fire under his ass and he starts caring about his product again.


Vince putting in effort to make Raw a better show would be the best part of Dynamite beating Raw's viewership. Raw is an absolutely atrocious television show, and should easily rack up awards for "worst television show"... I don't even watch much television and I'm convinced there can't be a worse show than Raw!


----------



## Prince of Thieves

Klitschko said:


> Can't wait to see @The Wood piss everyone off in here with a "it's still less than the average 1.5 million wrestling fans that were watching both shows on wednesdays" line lol.


That user has dedicated his life to death riding the company yet it keeps winning. He is hurting today make no mistake about it.


----------



## WindPhoenix

I'm guessing it's the week after mania bump and that they had a stacked card with 2 title matches + Mike Tyson.

I'm expecting all weekly wrestling shows to go down next week.


----------



## Erik.

Lol


----------



## Brad Boyd

Prince of Thieves said:


> Tyson last week; 600k
> Tyson this week; 1.2 million
> 
> Keep clutching bub


It seems as though Pippen has returned.


----------



## La Parka

Brad Boyd said:


> It seems as though Pippen has returned.


Wonder what kept him from posting when AEW was doing shitty numbers.

Musta been outta town those weeks


----------



## qntntgood

Prince of Thieves said:


> Increase in demo means audience got younger. Demo equals demographics & 18 - 49 are an age bracket. Simples


No it didn't because age viewer of aew forty seven,which is why it's call the 18 - 49 demographic and even meltzer had to admit it.


----------



## shandcraig

Prince of Thieves said:


> So we ignoring Tyson doing 600k last week?!


I didn't say anything of the sort. I'm pretty much asking if this week was Tyson or no. Last week I believe he was not advertise or was he?


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Prince of Thieves said:


> Company is two years old & anyway everybody can see how much competition impacts ratings. Just eat crow, you got it wrong


Oh hi Pippen


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Brad Boyd said:


> It seems as though Pippen has returned.


Yep it's clearly him.


----------



## rbl85

shandcraig said:


> I didn't say anything of the sort. I'm pretty much asking if this week was Tyson or no. Last week I believe he was not advertise or was he?


He was


----------



## DammitChrist

Let’s just keep @Pippen94, fellas.

He’s been dearly missed on here


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Let’s just keep @Pippen94, fellas.
> 
> He’s been dearly missed on here


Maybe in a few years when he is old enough and learns how to use grammar.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Alright now! AEW went back up in a big way! You just love to see it!


----------



## Kentucky34

AEW drew 1.7 million head to head with NXT for their first episode.

Now they can only draw 1.2 million unopposed by NXT.

They have lost half their audience. This week they have only picked up the NXT fans.


----------



## Prince of Thieves

Always good to clapback at those who've preached doom & gloom for two years.

Important to realize the bitter members are that way because of success somebody else is having. That's no way to live.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Nice fucking job AEW kudos. Its a wonder what no competition will do for you ,and the people trying to claim it was Tyson........my man Pipp....en.....erm prince of thieves already addressed that.

Just give in and give it up for a good showing, the usual negatives were surely lurking waiting to pounce on low numbers.......sorry boys get ready for the new norm lol.


----------



## Prince of Thieves

Two Sheds said:


> Maybe in a few years when he is old enough and learns how to use grammar.


You have about as much chance of getting out of the 90's as Kurt Cobain. Right now wrestling is looking at the top network show on Friday, top cable shows on Monday & Wednesday, while Tuesday's ranked highly too. 
You should join us in 2021, you're missing out on a great era


----------



## One Shed

Prince of Thieves said:


> You have about as much chance of getting out of the 90's as Kurt Cobain. Right now wrestling is looking at the top network show on Friday, top cable shows on Monday & Wednesday, while Tuesday's ranked highly too.
> You should join us in 2021, you're missing out on a great era


At least I was alive in the 90's and got to witness in real time when wrestling did produce great products. I just want that to happen again. No idea where you are getting the top network show on Friday from though.


----------



## La Parka

Prince of Thieves said:


> You have about as much chance of getting out of the 90's as Kurt Cobain. Right now wrestling is looking at the top network show on Friday, top cable shows on Monday & Wednesday, while Tuesday's ranked highly too.
> You should join us in 2021, you're missing out on a great era


Ahh yes @DammitChrist 

this is the quality that this site has been missing! Kurt Cobain jokes!

I doubt pippens parents were even old enough to drink when Kurt Cobain was alive


----------



## The Wood

Klitschko said:


> People are just happy that they got their biggest number since the debut episode. Let them have it.


I’m not taking anything away from anyone, I’m just being realistic, lol. This is a “fresh start” for AEW. That doesn’t mean they’ve turned a corner or that >1 million is guaranteed each week. For all we know, people tuned in, hated it, won’t be back. We’ll just have to wait and see.

I’ll give them credit if they can grow this number. I think it was Two Sheds that said their popularity (or lack thereof) doesn’t make them good or bad. It’s one of the best points I’ve seen on here.

I’ll concede if AEW grows or even just sustains this audience. But I don’t need to spasm about how amazing this number is, because in the grand context of things, it’s not only not that amazing (still a fraction of what Raw gets), and it might be a freak occurrence, in which case it doesn’t _mean_ anything.


----------



## Prince of Thieves

Two Sheds said:


> At least I was alive in the 90's and got to witness in real time when wrestling did produce great products. I just want that to happen again. No idea where you are getting the top network show on Friday from though.


Go yell at a cloud. Looks like your tastes have been locked in like old people who think modern music is all noise. How about giving the show a miss?! We'll let you know to watch next time DX do a reunion


----------



## One Shed

Prince of Thieves said:


> Go yell at a cloud. Looks like your tastes have been locked in like old people who think modern music is all noise. How about giving the show a miss?! We'll let you know to watch next time DX do a reunion


Another lazy "PLEASE stop watching" post. Well, my rebuttal to that lazy post is "PLEASE stop posting." At least you will be banned soon as a rejoiner.


----------



## Prince of Thieves

La Parka said:


> Ahh yes @DammitChrist
> 
> this is the quality that this site has been missing! Kurt Cobain jokes!
> 
> I doubt pippens parents were even old enough to drink when Kurt Cobain was alive


You've been on this board longer than anybody but I can't recall a damn comment or opinion you've ever expressed. It's like I've had you on ignore but not really because you're just dull


----------



## La Parka

Prince of Thieves said:


> You've been on this board longer than anybody but I can't recall a damn comment or opinion you've ever expressed. It's like I've had you on ignore but not really because you're just dull


I’ve been on this board longer than you’ve been alive, pippy.

you can’t recall most of it because you were an infant.


----------



## Wolf Mark

NXT Only said:


> Look at you, emotional.


He said "AEW is on fire!" because NXT is not there and I'm emotional. lol


----------



## CM Buck

Prince of Thieves said:


> Always good to clapback at those who've preached doom & gloom for two years.
> 
> Important to realize the bitter members are that way because of success somebody else is having. That's no way to live.


You never learn


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> Everyone called the number going up. Not by what it did, but let’s not pretend this is an earned number or that this is definitely going to be their audience from now on. They have to keep that audience and GROW it.
> 
> I’m going to be more surprised if the number goes up next week than at what they did this week.
> 
> It’s always amusing to see the people who think the viewership equates to the number of people who liked the show. It’s an undeniable fact that the live audience for this _has_ to be a number of people who don’t normally watch via that method. You can’t count them among the AEW faithful just yet.


Haha.

I haven’t been on board much of late due to being preoccupied with work and some other things, but I seen the rating announced on Twitter.

Not gonna lie, bro, I came here just to see your reaction. Much love. Hope all is well your way, buddy.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> 1. I challenge you to give a realistic number on what you think each wrestling product should roughly be getting each week. I want you to come to that number by using current TV trends and not passed on what TV numbers did 3 years ago let alone 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago.
> 
> 2. Why can't you just say damn that's a great number, without then shitting on them. Also is it not possible that since NXT was on those viewers had heard good things via word of mouth and decided to check it out. Clearly there's some level of interest in them given the significant jump.
> 
> 3. Does it mean that they'll continue to get this numbe forever of course not. Most folk that are happy have acknowledge that this may be a one off and AEW has to work hard to maintain or keep around this. But yes they're going to take a dunk on naysayers because they got a big number. It's no different than how you would've said "see I told you so" if they had a small gain or god forbid a major drop.


Yes @The Wood , this has always been your biggest flaw. You can not give an inch for fear of someone taking a mile. Lol


----------



## Punkhead

Amazing numbers for AEW. Clearly, more NXT fans wanted to check out AEW than the other way around. Though I do miss those disingenuous "what a bad number, AEW is not growing" comments. And I wonder where those "can't even break a million" people will move the goalposts now.


----------



## PushCrymeTyme

Punkhead said:


> Amazing numbers for AEW. Clearly, more NXT fans wanted to check out AEW than the other way around. Though I do miss those disingenuous "what a bad number, AEW is not growing" comments. And I wonder where those "can't even break a million" people will move the goalposts now.


aew fans are ex nxt fans who followed the brand since it was fcw but got exhausted seeing their favorite nxt wrestlers get treated like ish on the main roster so they know there is no point in tuning into nxt


----------



## Prosper

Pippen you should have laid low for a while before having everyone realize it was you lmao

Edit: Damn gone already 😂


----------



## One Shed

Prosper said:


> Pippen you should have laid low for a while before having everyone realize it was you lmao
> 
> Edit: Damn gone already 😂


To be fair, it would not have helped. The lack of grammar and intelligence was a dead giveaway.


----------



## Arn Anderson goat

All I know is AEW has made me love wrestling again after WWE questioned if I ever did! They have been performing incredibly these last few months


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Arn Anderson goat said:


> All I know is AEW has made me love wrestling again after WWE questioned if I ever did! They have been performing incredibly these last few months


Ditto

I joined close to a year ago and now I'm doing reviews for the damn b show on YouTube lol.......so let's just say AEW is pretty fucking awesome.


----------



## Asuka842

Darby Allin is a consistent ratings draw. AEW have done a great job with him.


----------



## Prosper

Arn Anderson goat said:


> All I know is AEW has made me love wrestling again after WWE questioned if I ever did! They have been performing incredibly these last few months


Yeah 2021 has been pretty dope, there are still flaws that need working out though, imagine when crowds return


----------



## Pentagon Senior

@The Wood predicts 835k for the week. 
AEW does 1.2m.
The Wood is still not impressed lol. And you wonder why people say you're biased and reach for negativity 🙄


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

Geert Wilders said:


> Do you believe that this week's show was good enough to retain at least 80% of these viewers?
> 
> It may be a case of AEW flopping hard next week. This should show Tony khan that the current product is overall not good.


These are people that already watched AEW weekly just that they were watching on Thursday night on DVR after watching NXT live on Wednesday .


----------



## zkorejo

Wow. Was NOT expecting that big of a jump. Feels good.


----------



## One Shed

Pentagon Senior said:


> @The Wood predicts 835k for the week.
> AEW does 1.2m.
> The Wood is still not impressed lol. And you wonder why people say you're biased and reach for negativity 🙄


That is not a fair summarization. Literally no one on here predicted even one million this week.


----------



## A PG Attitude

PushCrymeTyme said:


> aew fans are ex nxt fans who followed the brand since it was fcw but got exhausted seeing their favorite nxt wrestlers get treated like ish on the main roster so they know there is no point in tuning into nxt


That is exactly why I stopped watching NXT. Watched the weekly show from 2012 to 2016 and got tired of seeing stars turned into jobbers.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Two Sheds said:


> That is not a fair summarization. Literally no one on here predicted even one million this week.


I think you're missing the point. The fact that they did higher than anyone predicted only furthers the point that The Wood's "it's not that impressive" stance us silly. They literally got 365k more than he expected and he still can't bring himself to say a simple well done. It illustrates his motivations here imo.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Double post


----------



## NXT Only

Wolf Mark said:


> He said "AEW is on fire!" because NXT is not there and I'm emotional. lol


I said AEW is on fire for everything outside of the ratings. They're putting on great shows week after week. Only people overly concerned with ratings are those who want to see AEW fall.


----------



## NXT Only

The Wood said:


> I’m not taking anything away from anyone, I’m just being realistic


LMAO


----------



## zkorejo

Wolf Mark said:


> They're not on fire, they had 685 viewers the week before, one of the worst in the company's history. *Just thank NXT* for moving and be humble about it. Because that's reality.


That bolded part is bs and you know it. NXT didn't move out of the goodness of their hearts. They most probably were spanked by the network to move. 

I agree with the part about being humble. I don't think anyone should be too excited about it. It could be alot of nxt fans checking out aew and may or may not stick by next week.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Kentucky34 said:


> AEW drew 1.7 million head to head with NXT for their first episode.
> 
> Now they can only draw 1.2 million unopposed by NXT.
> 
> They have lost half their audience. This week they have only picked up the NXT fans.


We have a liar here. First episode was 1.4 Million.


----------



## Dizzie

I don't know how people are turning these recent ratings into a negative, that is just exposing themselves as straight haters of the product that want to see aew fail.

In honesty I wasn't expecting those numbers, they are surprisingly good numbers tbh as a thought they would still average under 950k for this recent dynamite show even without nxt, I do think that the advertisement of Tyson and aew being specific in what his featured role would be on the show helped bump up the ratings.


----------



## Hayabusasc

Great number for AEW and as usual The Wood is in here trying to do mental gymnastics to try and s*** on it.

Haters gonna hate. If you want respect then try not being such an obvious hater. There are many on here who criticise AEW legitimately and yet can still call out good things.

Key for AEW now is what they do with that added exposure. Focus needs to be on following up with a good number of shows.


----------



## TheGreatBanana

This rating is an outlier and isn’t indicative of anything until 2-3 weeks of AEW programming has past to get a true reflection of their viewership in the absence of NXT.

For over a year Wednesday became the wrestling night for NXT and AEW fans and even in Shahid Khans words said they were competing between for 1.3 million viewers who were regularly tuning in for both shows. AEW gained 1.2 million viewers post-NXT. The question is if can they grow those numbers beyond this week and eventually beat the viewership of their debut show. If the numbers average below 900k, it’s over for AEW.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

A PG Attitude said:


> That is exactly why I stopped watching NXT. Watched the weekly show from 2012 to 2016 and got tired of seeing stars turned into jobbers.


yup... once i saw what they did with Nakamura with the low blow saga it was the final straw - after many final straws

(that and the botch of DBs return - big cass.... really?)


----------



## Not Lying

Q1 [8:00-8:15] - 1190k [587k]

Q2 [8:15-8:30] - 1226k [558k]

Q3 [8:30-8:45] - 1193k [534k]

Q4 [8:45-9:00] - 1173k [538k]

Q5 [9:00-9:15] - 1350k [595k]

Q6 [9:15-9:30] - 1241k [566k]

Q7 [9:30-9:45] - 1170k [561k]

Q8 [9:45-10:00] - 1205k [599k]

Chris Jericho vs Dax did the highest total viewership, 1.35m

Matt Hardy vs Darby Allin did the highest in 18-49 demo, 599k



Darby is the new demo god. This is at least the 4th match of Allin's that has surpassed 1 million. At different places on the card.


----------



## LongPig666

AEW haven't broken the BILLION mark yet.....Khan is such a shit booker!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Definition of Technician said:


> Q1 [8:00-8:15] - 1190k [587k]
> 
> Q2 [8:15-8:30] - 1226k [558k]
> 
> Q3 [8:30-8:45] - 1193k [534k]
> 
> Q4 [8:45-9:00] - 1173k [538k]
> 
> Q5 [9:00-9:15] - 1350k [595k]
> 
> Q6 [9:15-9:30] - 1241k [566k]
> 
> Q7 [9:30-9:45] - 1170k [561k]
> 
> Q8 [9:45-10:00] - 1205k [599k]
> 
> Chris Jericho vs Dax did the highest total viewership, 1.35m
> 
> Matt Hardy vs Darby Allin did the highest in 18-49 demo, 599k
> 
> 
> 
> Darby is the new demo god. This is at least the 4th match of Allin's that has surpassed 1 million. At different places on the card.


Darby is a star


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ps> its nice to see they kept the majority of the viewers throughout the show - meaning the watched the whole thing and liked it

also that they closed with more than they opened - very promising for the coming weeks


----------



## Impermanence

Prince of Thieves said:


> Always good to clapback at those who've preached doom & gloom for two years.
> 
> Important to realize the bitter members are that way because of success somebody else is having. That's no way to live.


What a ridiculous and idiotic thing to say, whoever you are/were. All the WWE critics and jaded or lapsed fans who shit on Raw or the WWE must be bitter people and jealous of Vince the billionaire then right?


----------



## Geert Wilders

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Darby is a star


Darby is the most consistently booked star. Now imagine if they did the same with stars like Hangman Page, Starks, Guevara.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Geert Wilders said:


> Darby is the most consistently booked star. Now imagine if they did the same with stars like Hangman Page, Starks, Guevara.


Sammy is getting the same attention as Darby - just not as a singles / but definitely as part of his faction and in big moments - not everybody can hold a title

Hangman is getting there - he is the number 1 contender after all

Starks.... needs more airtime, for sure


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> Haha.
> 
> I haven’t been on board much of late due to being preoccupied with work and some other things, but I seen the rating announced on Twitter.
> 
> Not gonna lie, bro, I came here just to see your reaction. Much love. Hope all is well your way, buddy.


Same to you, buddy.



Pentagon Senior said:


> @The Wood predicts 835k for the week.
> AEW does 1.2m.
> The Wood is still not impressed lol. And you wonder why people say you're biased and reach for negativity 🙄


No one predicted anything close to what they did. How does it make sense to go out of your way and target a silly prediction I made in a game thread? Rent free.

I’m not impressed because this is a) clearly and outlier, and b) not that impressive in the grand scheme of things. Is it a great number for AEW. Sure. Does it compare to what wrestling on cable can evidently do? No way. I don’t owe them a round of applause for getting eyeballs unopposed.



zkorejo said:


> That bolded part is bs and you know it. NXT didn't move out of the goodness of their hearts. They most probably were spanked by the network to move.
> 
> I agree with the part about being humble. I don't think anyone should be too excited about it. It could be alot of nxt fans checking out aew and may or may not stick by next week.


NXT moved because of hockey. It may not even do as well in the ratings, but advertisers find it more valuable. Which is why people need to really think more critically about what these numbers for NXT and AEW actually mean.



Hayabusasc said:


> Great number for AEW and as usual The Wood is in here trying to do mental gymnastics to try and s*** on it.
> 
> Haters gonna hate. If you want respect then try not being such an obvious hater. There are many on here who criticise AEW legitimately and yet can still call out good things.
> 
> Key for AEW now is what they do with that added exposure. Focus needs to be on following up with a good number of shows.


There’s no mental gymnastics. Does anyone think this number comes from some sort of booking or promoting savvy? Of course not.

By the way, you end on the exact same point I do. Talk about mental gymnastics.



Geert Wilders said:


> Darby is the most consistently booked star. Now imagine if they did the same with stars like Hangman Page, Starks, Guevara.


Bingo. Darby seems like a piece of shit, but he has easily been the best and most consistently booked act in AEW. It’s why he’d be my pick to take the belt off Omega and why I think he’s a good case for logic and consistency in booking practice.

Funny how the best booked guy does better than the rest, aye?


----------



## Geert Wilders

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Sammy is getting the same attention as Darby - just not as a singles / but definitely as part of his faction and in big moments - not everybody can hold a title
> 
> Hangman is getting there - he is the number 1 contender after all
> 
> Starks.... needs more airtime, for sure


There's no consistency.

Darby has moved from one feud to the next. He is a TNT champion. He wins matches clean. He gets Sting's support. He gets regular promo time. He gets celebrity endorsements on Dynamite. Of course he will become a draw.

Hangman Page is winning matches, sure. But he has not been feuding with anyone. He's been stuck in some stupid storyline with Dark Order, which I thought was dropped when he said he doesn't want to join them. but they are still trying to recruit him. Can you truly say he's been given the same attention as Darby? Why has he not been given a feud to go back and forth? His win streak means nothing, In fact next week's match is the first time I've actually seen them formally mention he is on a streak. His booking has been anything but consistent. He had his storyline with Omega; and yes that feud was paused, but what has he done since then? Archer vs Page should have been a thing.

Sammy Guevara is part of the faction feud, but I cannot for the life remember the last time he is given the opportunity to showcase himself in a match or in a promo when he's not using cards to entertain FiteTV viewers.

There is absolutely no consistency with any of the three I mentioned.


edit: I forgot about Pages feud with big money Matt, but that feud was booked badly. They could have shown how Page spent Matt’s money; Matt basically wrote it off in 1 minute. It meant nothing in the end.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> No one predicted anything close to what they did. How does it make sense to go out of your way and target a silly prediction I made in a game thread? Rent free.
> 
> I’m not impressed because this is a) clearly and outlier, and b) not that impressive in the grand scheme of things. Is it a great number for AEW. Sure. Does it compare to what wrestling on cable can evidently do? No way. I don’t owe them a round of applause for getting eyeballs unopposed.


You think I had to 'go out of my way' to click on the predictions thread? I click on most of the threads tbh and it's remarkably easy. If that's 'rent free' then I have no idea how to describe your fixation with AEW, how many times do you think about Tony Kahn on a daily basis? 

The point was simple. They rated wayyy higher than anyone predicted. Wayyy higher than you predicted specifically. That's a good thing. To dress it up any other way shows you're pushing an agenda here and it's quite sad to see tbh.


----------



## CM Buck

@The Wood don't worry you'll get Dorothy and her little dog next time. AEWs biggest problem is still its inconsistency. Just take the L this week and let the wizard have this one


----------



## Jaxon

Great numbers after the last few weeks, I do love how everyone still argues makes it a good read, lets hope they can keep them numbers or this place will be on FIRE


----------



## 3venflow

Remember prophecies in the live thread and here of the Bucks having a long, PPV length title match being a ratings killer. In reality, the actual good matches have tended to do good QHs for Dynamite and promos often lose ratings.

Kicking off the first unopposed show with a 23 minute title match that went from Q1 to Q2 not only retained the fans from minute one but brought in more, which isn't an everyday thing. 

I think Bucks vs. Death Triangle may have been the first Dynamite match to ever go through the first commercial break, but don't quote me on that.


----------



## Not Lying

Jade vs Red Velvet should also be praised for retaining viewers!

Jade is a star.

Q3 is higher than Q1, and Q3 to Q2 drop is nothing (2.5%).


----------



## thorn123

They should be able to hold those viewers.
Even the most ardent critic had to have enjoyed that episode of dynamite.


----------



## 3venflow

Didn't want to start a new thread and think this fits in best here.

Meltzer on AEW's thinking behind these packed Darks and long tapings.

"Regarding doing so many hours of taping, besides it enabling them to look at more talent and it basically being their developmental system, the idea is to build up as much content as possible. The number of hours over the course of years will enable them to either set up their own streaming service, or better yet, be like WWE and get a major streaming company looking at spending heavy for content and them having enough hours, to lease it out for enough money that it will become a major stable revenue stream."

With that in mind, maybe buying IMPACT _for_ the (TNA) library is something Khan will attempt. Speculate to accumulate and all that.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Geert Wilders said:


> There's no consistency.
> 
> Darby has moved from one feud to the next. He is a TNT champion. He wins matches clean. He gets Sting's support. He gets regular promo time. He gets celebrity endorsements on Dynamite. Of course he will become a draw.
> 
> Hangman Page is winning matches, sure. But he has not been feuding with anyone. He's been stuck in some stupid storyline with Dark Order, which I thought was dropped when he said he doesn't want to join them. but they are still trying to recruit him. Can you truly say he's been given the same attention as Darby? Why has he not been given a feud to go back and forth? His win streak means nothing, In fact next week's match is the first time I've actually seen them formally mention he is on a streak. His booking has been anything but consistent. He had his storyline with Omega; and yes that feud was paused, but what has he done since then? Archer vs Page should have been a thing.
> 
> Sammy Guevara is part of the faction feud, but I cannot for the life remember the last time he is given the opportunity to showcase himself in a match or in a promo when he's not using cards to entertain FiteTV viewers.
> 
> There is absolutely no consistency with any of the three I mentioned.
> 
> 
> edit: I forgot about Pages feud with big money Matt, but that feud was booked badly. They could have shown how Page spent Matt’s money; Matt basically wrote it off in 1 minute. It meant nothing in the end.


Sammy v Matt was his last feud

Hangman v Matt too as you say - rather say you don't enjoy their stories / that is a big difference from 'they are not getting attention'


----------



## Dizzie

I have to agree with the recent sentiment in this thread that if they had put as much effort into making stars of hangman and starks as they have with darby and cassidy, they would be in an even better place viewership wise.


----------



## Alright_Mate

The Definition of Technician said:


> Q1 [8:00-8:15] - 1190k [587k]
> 
> Q2 [8:15-8:30] - 1226k [558k]
> 
> Q3 [8:30-8:45] - 1193k [534k]
> 
> Q4 [8:45-9:00] - 1173k [538k]
> 
> Q5 [9:00-9:15] - 1350k [595k]
> 
> Q6 [9:15-9:30] - 1241k [566k]
> 
> Q7 [9:30-9:45] - 1170k [561k]
> 
> Q8 [9:45-10:00] - 1205k [599k]
> 
> Chris Jericho vs Dax did the highest total viewership, 1.35m
> 
> Matt Hardy vs Darby Allin did the highest in 18-49 demo, 599k
> 
> 
> 
> Darby is the new demo god. This is at least the 4th match of Allin's that has surpassed 1 million. At different places on the card.


Remember when Chip and Wood said that Darby Allin doesn’t have a fanbase 🤔


----------



## Pentagon Senior

3venflow said:


> Didn't want to start a new thread and think this fits in best here.
> 
> Meltzer on AEW's thinking behind these packed Darks and long tapings.
> 
> "Regarding doing so many hours of taping, besides it enabling them to look at more talent and it basically being their developmental system, the idea is to build up as much content as possible. The number of hours over the course of years will enable them to either set up their own streaming service, or better yet, be like WWE and get a major streaming company looking at spending heavy for content and them having enough hours, to lease it out for enough money that it will become a major stable revenue stream."
> 
> With that in mind, maybe buying IMPACT _for_ the (TNA) library is something Khan will attempt. Speculate to accumulate and all that.


I thought as much. And yes buying the TNA library makes sense from the business perspective. Purely from a consumer pov though I kinda prefer the quality over quantity approch (rather than the WWE oversaturated approach), not that it affects me much as I rarely watch Dark/Elevation anyway. The second show on TNT will be vital though - they need to get that right when it happens.


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> You think I had to 'go out of my way' to click on the predictions thread? I click on most of the threads tbh and it's remarkably easy. If that's 'rent free' then I have no idea how to describe your fixation with AEW, how many times do you think about Tony Kahn on a daily basis?
> 
> The point was simple. They rated wayyy higher than anyone predicted. Wayyy higher than you predicted specifically. That's a good thing. To dress it up any other way shows you're pushing an agenda here and it's quite sad to see tbh.


As I’ve said a few times before: Sometimes it is better to slip in private than on your wedding day. The living week-to-week with ratings philosophy can kill your momentum and a lot of good ideas. And it can allow a lot of bad ideas to flourish. It is important to note that people watching your show *aren’t necessarily getting a good impression.*

A high rating CAN be bad. Think about the Revolution flub. You had a paying audience disappointed. It’s not just about getting that number like it’s a power level. It’s what you do going in and out of it. More people watching and liking is good.

There’s a dark side to getting a fortuitously high rating. To act like it is unequivocally good is problematic. That’s Vince Russo stuff.


----------



## The Wood

Alright_Mate said:


> Remember when Chip and Wood said that Darby Allin doesn’t have a fanbase 🤔


Huh? I’d like you to find that quote. I’m genuinely not sure if I said that or not. I’ve been down on the guy personality-wise. Cult03 and I, specifically, hated the dude’s personality because he takes advantage of junkies. I’ve never said the guy doesn’t have talent. I know that much. What exactly did I say about his fan-base? Happy to be wrong on this one.

It should be noted that he’s popular within the AEW bubble. He’s not a “draw” or a “star.” Yet. But I don’t think I’ve ever implied he’s actually bad at his job other than being an obnoxious emo kid who hangs onto the reckless 90’s too much.


----------



## Alright_Mate

The Wood said:


> Huh? I’d like you to find that quote. I’m genuinely not sure if I said that or not. I’ve been down on the guy personality-wise. Cult03 and I, specifically, hated the dude’s personality because he takes advantage of junkies. I’ve never said the guy doesn’t have talent. I know that much. What exactly did I say about his fan-base? Happy to be wrong on this one.
> 
> It should be noted that he’s popular within the AEW bubble. He’s not a “draw” or a “star.” Yet. But I don’t think I’ve ever implied he’s actually bad at his job other than being an obnoxious emo kid who hangs onto the reckless 90’s too much.


You called him a dweeb, a shitty person and said he wasn’t over with the younger audience.

I wonder how your defendant @NathanMayberry also feels now 🤔


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> As I’ve said a few times before: Sometimes it is better to slip in private than on your wedding day. The living week-to-week with ratings philosophy can kill your momentum and a lot of good ideas. And it can allow a lot of bad ideas to flourish. It is important to note that people watching your show *aren’t necessarily getting a good impression.*
> 
> A high rating CAN be bad. Think about the Revolution flub. You had a paying audience disappointed. It’s not just about getting that number like it’s a power level. It’s what you do going in and out of it. More people watching and liking is good.
> 
> There’s a dark side to getting a fortuitously high rating. To act like it is unequivocally good is problematic. That’s Vince Russo stuff.


But it was typical above average-to-good episode of Dynamite so there's nothing to lose here. If folks gave it a try but didn't like it - then AEW will never be for them anyway, so hey ho. It's a weird circular argument to present it otherwise - imagine any TV show hoping for a low rating in case the viewers don't like the episode (which was a totally typical episode showcasing what they're about). That would be a strange production meeting lol.

Revolution was different because there were a few clear missteps, even within the typical AEW model. Plus you make people pay good money for ppv so they can feel more let down.

But...making out that a TV show, who produced a typical-to-good episode of their usual programming, getting a way higher rating than expected...is anything but a positive...is reaching to the point of incredulity. But I don't know why I'm taking the time to write this out as we all know this.



Whoanma said:


> View attachment 100036


I count ten people shifting those posts - I could guess who most of them are from this forum 😅


----------



## DaSlacker

Judging by those quarter hour numbers they should fairly easily stay above the 1 million mark.


----------



## Dr. Middy

This is a great number, but this is somewhat inflated I think due to this being the first week unopposed. If I were to guess, this will probably stabilize around a million or so every week, which is still an excellent number to work with.

I enjoyed the show overall (I really liked Bucks and PAC/Fenix more than most I think) but it isn't without faults, and the one thing I hope they don't do is celebrate too much and think they don't need to change things. There are still issues regarding their pacing of the show to me (and how breakneck it seems between the shorter segments where they don't give you time to breathe), booking inconsistencies like how Pinnacle has been treated so far, too many people on the show in general, and so on so forth. 

They have a great shot now of gaining a lot of new viewers and need to keep working at it to keep them around and engaged. Hopefully they do their best to do that.


----------



## Aedubya

The "OGOGO EFFECT" in all its glory


----------



## 3venflow

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> I really liked Bucks and PAC/Fenix more than most I think


Nah, don't mistake WF as being any sort of consensus. There are a lot more people on social media and it was buzzing about that match.

Cagematch average rating for it is also 8.77/10 from 117 votes, which is equivalent of about 4 1/4 stars. And Cagematch is probably one of the best consensus sites out there (ie. last week's Dynamite got only a 5.66 rating compared to this week's 8.38, and last week's main event rated just 4.84 from 81 votes).

It was an effective match in every respect, including the TV ratings. A group of people calling it 'flippy shit' doesn't change the fact that many who watch the shows appreciate this sort of match.


----------



## Klitschko

So where are the people that said they wouldn't be surprised if it was NXT that would benefit more from the change than AEW and get more of AEW's fans watching and not the other way around?


----------



## Not Lying

Alright_Mate said:


> I wonder how your defendant @NathanMayberry also feels now 🤔


He's too busy now deleting his screenshots of @Prosper 's optimistic posts about AEW's ratings, because god forbid someone gets optimistic about the ratings a product that has shown the ability to produce an entertaining show and the ability to peak at said-predicted numbers vs no competition.


----------



## rbl85

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> *This is a great number, but this is somewhat inflated I think due to this being the first week unopposed.* If I were to guess, this will probably stabilize around a million or so every week, which is still an excellent number to work with.
> 
> I enjoyed the show overall (I really liked Bucks and PAC/Fenix more than most I think) but it isn't without faults, and the one thing I hope they don't do is celebrate too much and think they don't need to change things. There are still issues regarding their pacing of the show to me (and how breakneck it seems between the shorter segments where they don't give you time to breathe), booking inconsistencies like how Pinnacle has been treated so far, too many people on the show in general, and so on so forth.
> 
> They have a great shot now of gaining a lot of new viewers and need to keep working at it to keep them around and engaged. Hopefully they do their best to do that.


I have a hard time understanding that point because people don't decide out of nowhere to watch a wrestling show just because the other wrestling show went on an other night.


----------



## Klitschko

Also to respond to the Wood not being happy with their ratings because he knows wrestling could get more. Think of it this way. They just doubled the rating in a week. That's a big accomplishment. Now sure it could be much much bigger, but that still doesn't take away from this accomplishment. Most of us are MCU nerds probably. So the way I see it is like this. It would be like saying one of the new marvel movies is a failure because it made a billion dollars at the box office, because you know judging by Avengers Endgame that it could go up to 3 billion.


----------



## DammitChrist

For the record, it does warm my heart knowing that there are plenty of fans who actually want to watch WRESTLING on TV. 

It must ruffle the feathers of promo marks seeing how the wrestling matches tend to hold up better in viewership over promos in general


----------



## Hitman1987

This is a good rating for AEW and TNT, their viewers have increased by nearly 50% since last week so how can it not be.

However, to me it seems like there’s 1.2 - 1.4m wrestling fans willing to watch Wrestling on TV on a Wednesday night and given the choice, nearly half of them would choose to watch NXT live, as that’s what they‘ve done over the last 2 years. Now that they have no choice, they choose AEW.

It’s not like AEW has just gained 5-600k brand new people who were not watching AEW or NXT the previous week so this is not the result of AEW’s good booking or promotion.

The show still has the same booking, consistency and production issues as last week which had 650k or so viewers.

What I will say though is that this is a good chance for AEW to do a reset. Drop the crap talent, sort the production and start booking consistently and put your biggest draws on the show every week in the best angles.

The worst thing AEW can do now is not change anything and blame the previous ratings drops on being apposed by NXT. If AEW was good enough people would’ve chosen it over NXT.


----------



## La Parka

[QUOTE="DammitChrist, post: 78642725, member: 565609"

It must ruffle the feathers of promo marks seeing how the wrestling matches tend to hold up better in viewership over promos in general 
[/QUOTE]
“Promo Mark”

Is not a thing, lmao


----------



## Dr. Middy

rbl85 said:


> I have a hard time understanding that point because people don't decide out of nowhere to watch a wrestling show just because the other wrestling show went on an other night.


You probably had a lot of people who would normally watch NXT decide to watch AEW since it was the only wrestling show on. That's what I assume happened anyway. 

I doubt it was any new wrestling fans they had watching, more so WWE fans that decided to give another show a chance.


----------



## DammitChrist

La Parka said:


> [QUOTE="DammitChrist, post: 78642725, member: 565609"
> 
> It must ruffle the feathers of promo marks seeing how the wrestling matches tend to hold up better in viewership over promos in general
> 
> “Promo Mark”
> 
> Is not a thing, lmao


It really is when wrestling fans have repeatedly been told by them over the past several years that the workrate “doesn’t” matter, and that it’s always been “less” important compared to promos.


----------



## Klitschko

DammitChrist said:


> For the record, it does warm my heart knowing that there are plenty of fans who actually want to watch WRESTLING on TV.
> 
> It must ruffle the feathers of promo marks seeing how the wrestling matches tend to hold up better in viewership over promos in general


For me it does haha. I have always believed that PPV's are for these long epic MOTYC matches and tv should be for promos and segments and short little matches to build feuds. Occasionally we should get an amazing match on TV, maybe the main event, but usually it should be short less then 10 minute long matches. That's why I love Smackdown so much for example. Most of the matches there are short, besides the main event. They usually open with promos, and build up the main event program through the night. Seems to be working for 2.1 million fans that watch each week. But good job to AEW as well. For them at least it seems that matches draw more. 

Also, Darby is a star. Needed to add that in lol.


----------



## Not Lying

3venflow said:


> Nah, don't mistake WF as being any sort of consensus. There are a lot more people on social media and it was buzzing about that match.
> 
> Cagematch average rating for it is also 8.77/10 from 117 votes, which is equivalent of about 4 1/4 stars. And Cagematch is probably one of the best consensus sites out there (ie. last week's Dynamite got only a 5.66 rating compared to this week's 8.38, and last week's main event rated just 4.84 from 81 votes).
> 
> It was an effective match in every respect, including the TV ratings. A group of people calling it 'flippy shit' doesn't change the fact that many who watch the shows appreciate this sort of match.


I'm not a fan of these type of matches and I think they can lose their allure week after week after week, which is exactly what happened with these boring Omega 6-man matches for the past month or so, they continued to lose viewers because crowd got tired of them, and Omega doesn't feel like a world champion and main event guy.

This week was unopposed, a *title* match, PAC was involved, and it did well. I mean people who watched it in Q1 would continue for Q2 to see if there would be *a title change*, Fair enough, but I doubt this style can be sustained week in and week out.


----------



## Klitschko

How I would book AEW is I would have a monthly special on a ppv level since they keep doing their ppv's every 3 months. Like Fight for the fallen and Fyterfest. 3 episodes of mostly promos and shorter matches building up feuds, and then the big special for a big rating episode each month with bigger matches and big surprises/debuts and things. I would make the big specials important, and built up like a small ppv, but not to a point where it wouldn't make the big 4 feel special.


----------



## DammitChrist

Klitschko said:


> For me it does haha. I have always believed that PPV's are for these long epic MOTYC matches and tv should be for promos and segments and short little matches to build feuds. Occasionally we should get an amazing match on TV, maybe the main event, but usually it should be short less then 10 minute long matches. That's why I love Smackdown so much for example. Most of the matches there are short, besides the main event. They usually open with promos, and build up the main event program through the night. Seems to be working for 2.1 million fans that watch each week. But good job to AEW as well. For them at least it seems that matches draw more.
> 
> Also, Darby is a star. Needed to add that in lol.


I can definitely respect your honesty here 👍

I never really considered you to be obnoxious about the promo aspect at all on here, so this was a cool response by you 

I know that it sounds like I apparently “hate” promos if we go by my recent posts on here, but I really don’t dislike them at all. 

Some of my top favorites on AEW are pretty damn good promo workers. 

I ENJOY hearing guys like Chris Jericho, Jon Moxley, Cody Rhodes, Eddie Kingston, Ricky Starks, Christian Cage (now that he’s here), Christopher Daniels (when he’s given time to talk), and Pac cut these thrilling promos. 

Hell, I’m not an MJF fan at all, but there’s no denying the fact that he’s an excellent promo worker too. I thought the promo he cut a few weeks ago when he introduced the Pinnacle members was great mic work. 

I think promos (and segments) do a good job hyping up the build to future ppvs along with possible match-ups. There’s always a good place for promos for sure.

However, I’m always going to have a soft spot for the wrestling aspect.

Sometimes, it feels like the in-ring work is the most under-appreciated quality of professional wrestling on here since we’ve been told numerous times on this site that the workrate has “always mattered the least.”

Some of the most best memories and fun times I’ve had as a fan in recent years involved me witnessing some awesome wrestling sequences or me seeing exciting action during a thrilling match. 

Sometimes, I get a rush of adrenaline whenever there’s a really good wrestling match going on late into the contest (by great wrestlers who are involved too), and there’s almost no better feeling for a fan to have too 

The opening 6-tag match is just one small example of wrestling matches being fun, so I’m happy to see the workrate aspect do consistently well for AEW here 

Anyway, I still hold the opinion that promos and workrate equally matter in their own respective ways. I just happen to lean more toward the wrestling aspect


----------



## NathanMayberry

The Definition of Technician said:


> He's too busy now deleting his screenshots of @Prosper 's optimistic posts about AEW's ratings, because god forbid someone gets optimistic about the ratings a product that has shown the ability to produce an entertaining show and the ability to peak at said-predicted numbers vs no competition.


Would that be, before or after, I said this.. AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread Part IV?

Y'all really need to lay off the Tiny khan dick energy.. It looks kinda foolish, considering how few people here believed it would hit a million.


----------



## Not Lying

NathanMayberry said:


> Would that be, before or after, I said this.. AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread Part IV?
> 
> Y'all really need to lay off the Tiny khan dick energy.. It looks kinda foolish, considering how few people here believed it would hit a million.


Most people didn't expect *THIS* *PARTICULAR SHOW *to get that number it would have been an insane to imaging them almost doubling last week's. HOWEVER, most rational posters have predicted that AEW is on (which to the typical haters is not enough), they still wouldn't get a million viewers.

I didn't make any prediction for this show because I didn't really like the main event of last week, but 've been saying for the past year no competition they can average 1m easily, and it was proven by the few unopposed big shows they did last year. Yet you still had people doubting that and people that thought it was impossible for them to crack that 1m viewers EVEN IF THERE WAS NO COMPETITION.



The Wood said:


> Even guys like Brandon Thurston are coming out now and popping the “News disrupts people’s habits” myth bubble. It doesn’t. Stop with this. And yes, people do act as if AEW would be batting over 1 million if it weren’t for the news, sport, *NXT* and the weather. People can watch the news whenever. They don’t have to sacrifice their originally scheduled programming anymore.
> 
> *More people watching the news doesn’t mean fewer people watching wrestling.*


Like this. What's up.

Care to admit they can average 1m without NXT?


----------



## Prosper

The Definition of Technician said:


> Q1 [8:00-8:15] - 1190k [587k]
> 
> Q2 [8:15-8:30] - 1226k [558k]
> 
> Q3 [8:30-8:45] - 1193k [534k]
> 
> Q4 [8:45-9:00] - 1173k [538k]
> 
> Q5 [9:00-9:15] - 1350k [595k]
> 
> Q6 [9:15-9:30] - 1241k [566k]
> 
> Q7 [9:30-9:45] - 1170k [561k]
> 
> Q8 [9:45-10:00] - 1205k [599k]
> 
> Chris Jericho vs Dax did the highest total viewership, 1.35m
> 
> Matt Hardy vs Darby Allin did the highest in 18-49 demo, 599k
> 
> 
> 
> Darby is the new demo god. This is at least the 4th match of Allin's that has surpassed 1 million. At different places on the card.


Those are some great looking quarterlies for the cable audience. They retained their audience the whole night even getting up to 1.35mil at one point. Thats only 200K people away from RAW's lowest 3rd hour rating this year which was a 1.5. That's huge. Happy to see that Jade Cargill/Red Velvet didn't lose a crazy amount of viewers as I think they are two of the next top female stars in AEW. Darby Allin bringing in that demo is nice to see. Good choice in hindsight having him main event as he has been retaining pretty well lately. With that kind of retention, I really don't see the cable ratings dropping anywhere below 900K anytime soon. If people weren't interested they would have dropped off during the squash matches or at any point during the night but they stayed, and all of the top stars weren't on the show. I love it.


----------



## One Shed

Klitschko said:


> For me it does haha. I have always believed that PPV's are for these long epic MOTYC matches and tv should be for promos and segments and short little matches to build feuds. Occasionally we should get an amazing match on TV, maybe the main event, but usually it should be short less then 10 minute long matches. That's why I love Smackdown so much for example. Most of the matches there are short, besides the main event. They usually open with promos, and build up the main event program through the night. Seems to be working for 2.1 million fans that watch each week. But good job to AEW as well. For them at least it seems that matches draw more.
> 
> Also, Darby is a star. Needed to add that in lol.


Yeah, I pretty much have the same opinion. The PPVs were always for the best matches and the TV shows were to build to those. I get with TV being the larger source of revenue now, that has changed a bit, but it is still a good formula. The reasons the largest draws in wrestling were those draws was because they were compelling characters that made you care. People bought into Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, and The Rock because of their character work more than their ring work but being able to tell a good story in the ring is important too.


----------



## Prosper

Klitschko said:


> For me it does haha. I have always believed that PPV's are for these long epic MOTYC matches and tv should be for promos and segments and short little matches to build feuds. Occasionally we should get an amazing match on TV, maybe the main event, but usually it should be short less then 10 minute long matches. That's why I love Smackdown so much for example. Most of the matches there are short, besides the main event. They usually open with promos, and build up the main event program through the night. Seems to be working for 2.1 million fans that watch each week. But good job to AEW as well. For them at least it seems that matches draw more.
> 
> Also, Darby is a star. Needed to add that in lol.





DammitChrist said:


> I can definitely respect your honesty here 👍
> 
> I never really considered you to be obnoxious about the promo aspect at all on here, so this was a cool response by you
> 
> I know that it sounds like I apparently “hate” promos if we go by my recent posts on here, but I really don’t dislike them at all.
> 
> Some of my top favorites on AEW are pretty damn good promo workers.
> 
> I ENJOY hearing guys like Chris Jericho, Jon Moxley, Cody Rhodes, Eddie Kingston, Ricky Starks, Christian Cage (now that he’s here), Christopher Daniels (when he’s given time to talk), and Pac cut these thrilling promos.
> 
> Hell, I’m not an MJF fan at all, but there’s no denying the fact that he’s an excellent promo worker too. I thought the promo he cut a few weeks ago when he introduced the Pinnacle members was great mic work.
> 
> I think promos (and segments) do a good job hyping up the build to future ppvs along with possible match-ups. There’s always a good place for promos for sure.
> 
> However, I’m always going to have a soft spot for the wrestling aspect.
> 
> Sometimes, it feels like the in-ring work is the most under-appreciated quality of professional wrestling on here since we’ve been told numerous times on this site that the workrate has “always mattered the least.”
> 
> Some of the most best memories and fun times I’ve had as a fan in recent years involved me witnessing some awesome wrestling sequences or me seeing exciting action during a thrilling match.
> 
> Sometimes, I get a rush of adrenaline whenever there’s a really good wrestling match going on late into the contest (by great wrestlers who are involved too), and there’s almost no better feeling for a fan to have too
> 
> The opening 6-tag match is just one small example of wrestling matches being fun, so I’m happy to see the workrate aspect do consistently well for AEW here
> 
> Anyway, I still hold the opinion that promos and workrate equally matter in their own respective ways. I just happen to lean more toward the wrestling aspect





Two Sheds said:


> Yeah, I pretty much have the same opinion. The PPVs were always for the best matches and the TV shows were to build to those. I get with TV being the larger source of revenue now, that has changed a bit, but it is still a good formula. The reasons the largest draws in wrestling were those draws was because they were compelling characters that made you care. People bought into Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, and The Rock because of their character work more than their ring work but being able to tell a good story in the ring is important too.


These are all good posts. For me I am more half and half at this point so my POV of wrestling has changed over the years. I was also a guy who wanted solely great promos on TV with shorter matches but as the times changed and the work-rate started to get better up and down the card for the most part, I grew to appreciate longer epic matches on TV. They do the same thing on NXT a lot of the time that's why I also really like their product. As DC said, it's nice to have that exhilarating longer match on TV from time to time, even though in theory they should be reserved for the PPV's. AEW's formula of having TV content be just as important as their PPV's is one of the things I have grown to like about the product. It kind of devalues the epics on the PPV's slightly, but as we all know the TV deal money is what's most important. With the WWE model now, there's no reason to watch the weekly shows for me, just the PPV's, so I just catch Roman Reigns or Sasha Banks promos on Youtube and skip the matches seeing as most of them always end in a DQ or fuckery anyway. With AEW, I find myself hyped every week. But I understand all the personal POV's you guys have they make sense.


----------



## The Wood

Alright_Mate said:


> You called him a dweeb, a shitty person and said he wasn’t over with the younger audience.
> 
> I wonder how your defendant @NathanMayberry also feels now 🤔


You didn’t answer the actual question. Yes, I think he’s a shitty person. He openly brags about getting an addict to fish shit out of a distrusting toilet. That’s awful. I’ll never forget that. But what evidence do you have for the other parts?



Klitschko said:


> So where are the people that said they wouldn't be surprised if it was NXT that would benefit more from the change than AEW and get more of AEW's fans watching and not the other way around?


We’ll see how that goes. Marathon, not a sprint. I hate invoking Triple H, but he knows...unfortunately.



Klitschko said:


> Also to respond to the Wood not being happy with their ratings because he knows wrestling could get more. Think of it this way. They just doubled the rating in a week. That's a big accomplishment. Now sure it could be much much bigger, but that still doesn't take away from this accomplishment. Most of us are MCU nerds probably. So the way I see it is like this. It would be like saying one of the new marvel movies is a failure because it made a billion dollars at the box office, because you know judging by Avengers Endgame that it could go up to 3 billion.


A good post from a smart place. But it’s important to remember they didn’t _do_ anything. This was handed. That changes context A LOT.



La Parka said:


> [QUOTE="DammitChrist, post: 78642725, member: 565609"
> 
> It must ruffle the feathers of promo marks seeing how the wrestling matches tend to hold up better in viewership over promos in general


“Promo Mark”

Is not a thing, lmao
[/QUOTE]

Promo mark is not a thing. Nor is anti-smark. This guy lives in his own world.


----------



## One Shed

Prosper said:


> These are all good posts. For me I am more half and half at this point so my POV of wrestling has changed over the years. I was also a guy who wanted solely great promos on TV with shorter matches but as the times changed and the work-rate started to get better up and down the card for the most part, I grew to appreciate longer epic matches on TV. They do the same thing on NXT a lot of the time that's why I also really like their product. As DC said, it's nice to have that exhilarating longer match on TV from time to time, even though in theory they should be reserved for the PPV's. AEW's formula of having TV content be just as important as their PPV's is one of the things I have grown to like about the product. It kind of devalues the epics on the PPV's slightly, but as we all know the TV deal money is what's most important. With the WWE model now, there's no reason to watch the weekly shows for me, just the PPV's, so I just catch Roman Reigns or Sasha Banks promos on Youtube and skip the matches seeing as most of them always end in a DQ or fuckery anyway. With AEW, I find myself hyped every week. But I understand all the personal POV's you guys have they make sense.


I think what I disagree with most today is the people who say longer automatically equals better. Now, I do not say longer equals BAD, but guys who are good at telling stories can do it in in 8 minute TV matches or 15-20 minutes in a big match. 30+ minute matches should be the outliers. I just see too much of guys wanting to "get their movez in" vs telling a story that makes sense and get themselves more over. It is classic short term thinking vs long term thinking to me.


----------



## NathanMayberry

The Definition of Technician said:


> Most people didn't expect *THIS* *PARTICULAR SHOW *to get that number it would have been an insane to imaging them almost doubling last week's. HOWEVER, most rational posters have predicted that AEW is on (which to the typical haters is not enough), they still wouldn't get a million viewers.
> 
> I didn't make any prediction for this show because I didn't really like the main event of last week, but 've been saying for the past year no competition they can average 1m easily, and it was proven by the few unopposed big shows they did last year. Yet you still had people doubting that and people that thought it was impossible for them to crack that 1m viewers EVEN IF THERE WAS NO COMPETITION.


What the fuck does any of the shit that other people have been saying have to do with me? You tried to clown me for AEW getting a million even though I was one of the few expecting that they would, while all the other folks here now celebrating and rushing to like your post were expecting 850K.

Imagine me this morning going through my email and seeing that you call me out:









And now I come here and your excuse is that OTHER people said things?

Miss me with that, bullshit. 

This is another example of that Tiny Kahn dick energy, you want to gloat, go ahead. But next time try to do some research before involving me in your shit.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> You didn’t answer the actual question. Yes, I think he’s a shitty person. He openly brags about getting an addict to fish shit out of a distrusting toilet. That’s awful. I’ll never forget that. But what evidence do you have for the other parts?
> 
> 
> 
> We’ll see how that goes. Marathon, not a sprint. I hate invoking Triple H, but he knows...unfortunately.
> 
> 
> 
> A good post from a smart place. But it’s important to remember they didn’t _do_ anything. This was handed. That changes context A LOT.
> 
> 
> “Promo Mark”
> 
> Is not a thing, lmao
> 
> 
> Promo mark is not a thing. Nor is anti-smark. This guy lives in his own world.


Excuse me if I refuse to take you seriously at all here when you keep blatantly ignoring the fact that anti-smark is actually a real term (especially when it’s been used as a wrestling term since 2005) and when you shamelessly pretend that there aren’t a great number of folks on here who support promos over wrestling matches. 

Aren’t you the same guy who kept acting like AEW was dying, and that they weren’t (ever) going to reach 1 million viewers again? How did those claims (and your 850 K prediction) work out for you? 

That says a lot honestly about yourself here with the delusions and the irony about me “living in my own world” when you consistently continue to be wrong, especially on this thread 😂


----------



## One Shed

The Wood said:


> Promo mark is not a thing. Nor is anti-smark. This guy lives in his own world.


I am confused as well. Are there actually people out there that never want guys to speak and just have matches for no defined reason? Promos are an integral part of pro wrestling. It literally would not be the same sport/entity without them.


----------



## Whoanma

Two Sheds said:


> I think what I disagree with most today is the people who say longer automatically equals better. Now, I do not say longer equals BAD, but guys who are good at telling stories can do it in in 8 minute TV matches or 15-20 minutes in a big match. 30+ minute matches should be the outliers. I just see too much of guys wanting to "get their movez in" vs telling a story that makes sense and get themselves more over. It is classic short term thinking vs long term thinking to me.


----------



## Prosper

Two Sheds said:


> I think what I disagree with most today is the people who say longer automatically equals better. Now, I do not say longer equals BAD, but guys who are good at telling stories can do it in in 8 minute TV matches or 15-20 minutes in a big match. 30+ minute matches should be the outliers. I just see too much of guys wanting to "get their movez in" vs telling a story that makes sense and get themselves more over. It is classic short term thinking vs long term thinking to me.


Nah longer certainly doesn't always mean better. Sometimes a long match just drags like crazy to the point where it takes you out of the match itself. I agree, as long as there is a story being told or as long as you're hyped all the way through, then I think it's fine for most people. The Death Triangle/Bucks match for example went 23 minutes and I had no idea because I was so enthralled in the match. They were telling the story of the Bucks turning heel and changing most of their match format, while also showcasing my boy PAC in the best light. Felt like 10 minutes to me personally. But then you have other matches on AEW where they're just fighting and fighting forever for no reason at all.


----------



## One Shed

Prosper said:


> Nah longer certainly doesn't always mean better. Sometimes a long match just drags like crazy to the point where it takes you out of the match itself. I agree, as long as there is a story being told or as long as you're hyped all the way through, then I think it's fine for most people. The Death Triangle/Bucks match for example went 23 minutes and I had no idea because I was so enthralled in the match. They were telling the story of the Bucks turning heel and changing most of their match format, while also showcasing my boy PAC in the best light. Felt like 10 minutes to me personally. But then you have other matches on AEW where they're just fighting and fighting forever for no reason at all.


Yeah, there are several long matches I like but that is not a very long list. Not a lot of people can really pull that off. Bret could. Shawn could. Flair could. The Bucks? Yeah, we are just going to disagree on that one.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Yeah I'm a "balance mark" as it turns out 🤣

I love promos, often more than matches. I also love the odd squash in order to vary the pacing of the show. But I also enjoy the odd longer match on TV, especially as a main event involving the likes of Fenix, Pac, Omega etc. I want it all!!! 

I think AEW has improved the balance a lot over the months, in terms of shorter matches and more promos. I will admit that they still occasionally do matches that I would prefer if they were 2-3 mins shorter...but I can't have everything in life. Those matches aside, I enjoy the variety they offer.


----------



## Alright_Mate

The Wood said:


> But what evidence do you have for the other parts?


A line you posted to @Lorromire a few months ago.

“I’m not even going to bother with the rest of your post. Darby Allin is not that over.”


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I have a question for all the overall numbers vs. key demo people

did AEW or did Challenge win this week if they were head to head 💁‍♂️


----------



## Pentagon Senior

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I have a question for all the overall numbers vs. key demo people
> 
> did AEW or did Challenge win this week if they were head to head 💁‍♂️
> 
> View attachment 100045


You're referring to the "overall rating marks" 😁


----------



## One Shed

Pentagon Senior said:


> You're referring to the "overall rating marks" 😁


I thought those were the anti-demo smarks? We need a proper glossary on here.


----------



## TD Stinger

This recent number, I will admit that like the Bucks had been before last week, I am CONFLICTED about.

I mean we all saw the numbers coming out of Revolution. They were doing 700-750k most weeks after the PPV. So coming out of Mania weekend and with NXT no longer being on Tuesdays I thought they would get a decent boost, somewhere in the 900k range, but nowhere near 1.2 million. And it makes you wonder how they got such a big bump.

Because here's the thing, it's not like AEW, at least to me, hyped this up more than a usual episode of Dynamite. This wasn't like what Raw does every September by hyping it as the "Season Premiere" or anything like that. Really the only thing that special about this show was that it had Tyson announced for a week and I guess you can say Jericho competing in a match. What I'm trying to say is that AEW did not really hype this as an overly special episode. But still, they do this great number.

And you ask yourself where did all the new people watching come from? Was it people who used to just watch NXT? Was it people coming back for Mania week? Was it other factors? I'm no expert so I won't say, but man I'm still shocked about that number.

And I don't even want to be that kind of snobbish asshole that just says "well, OBVIOUSLY it will go down next week." I mean, good chance it will. I predicted it would a bit. But then again, maybe it won't. Maybe this the start of their viewership slowly increasing over time. Who knows? I sure as hell don't, lol.

I'll be interested to see how SD finishes off the week for wrestling. Raw dominated the Demo on Monday, easily earning the #1, #2, and #3 spots. NXT was #8 on Tuesday. AEW was #2. I wonder how well SD will do in comparison. And of course, I'll be interested to see how all of the shows do next week when you think (but again, who knows) some of this will die down.


----------



## Kishido

Great number but shit show. Everything feels so forced


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

TD Stinger said:


> This recent number, I will admit that like the Bucks had been before last week, I am CONFLICTED about.
> 
> I mean we all saw the numbers coming out of Revolution. They were doing 700-750k most weeks after the PPV. So coming out of Mania weekend and with NXT no longer being on Tuesdays I thought they would get a decent boost, somewhere in the 900k range, but nowhere near 1.2 million. And it makes you wonder how they got such a big bump.
> 
> Because here's the thing, it's not like AEW, at least to me, hyped this up more than a usual episode of Dynamite. This wasn't like what Raw does every September by hyping it as the "Season Premiere" or anything like that. Really the only thing that special about this show was that it had Tyson announced for a week and I guess you can say Jericho competing in a match. What I'm trying to say is that AEW did not really hype this as an overly special episode. But still, they do this great number.
> 
> And you ask yourself where did all the new people watching come from? Was it people who used to just watch NXT? Was it people coming back for Mania week? Was it other factors? I'm no expert so I won't say, but man I'm still shocked about that number.
> 
> And I don't even want to be that kind of snobbish asshole that just says "well, OBVIOUSLY it will go down next week." I mean, good chance it will. I predicted it would a bit. But then again, maybe it won't. Maybe this the start of their viewership slowly increasing over time. Who knows? I sure as hell don't, lol.
> 
> I'll be interested to see how SD finishes off the week for wrestling. Raw dominated the Demo on Monday, easily earning the #1, #2, and #3 spots. NXT was #8 on Tuesday. AEW was #2. I wonder how well SD will do in comparison. And of course, I'll be interested to see how all of the shows do next week when you think (but again, who knows) some of this will die down.


the DVR +7 (watching on DVR within 7 days were always 1.2m to 1.4m - a lot of these people with less to watch on Wed most likely decided to tune in live, or watch on DVR within 7 Hrs, which counts towards this numbers

in short - they were always watching


----------



## Dizzie

The fact that both nxt and aew jumped up a good amount in viewership is a win for wrestling


----------



## 3venflow

Here's those quarter hours with descriptions:

Q1: Young Bucks interview/MJF & Mike Tyson segment/Bucks vs. PAC and Rey Fenix – 1,190,000 viewers, 587,000 in 18-49
Q2: End of Young Bucks vs. Death Triangle – 1,226,000 viewers (up 36,000), 558,000 in 18-49 (down 29,000)
Q3: Dark Order & Hangman Page segment/Inner Circle & Mike Tyson interview/Jade Cargill vs. Red Velvet – 1,193,000 viewers (down 33,000), 534,000 in 18-49 (down 24,000)
Q4: End of Cargill vs. Velvet/Britt Baker promo/Anthony Ogogo vs. Cole Carter/Miro promo – 1,173,000 viewers (down 20,000), 538,000 in 18-49 (up 4,000)
Q5: Chris Jericho vs. Dax Harwood/Bullet Club interview – 1,350,000 viewers (up 177,000), 595,000 in 18-49 (down 57,000)
Q6: Kris Statlander vs. Amber Nova/Team Taz promo – 1,241,000 viewers (down 108,000), 566,000 in 18-49 (down 29,000)
Q7: Christian, Taz & Powerhouse Hobbs segment/Darby Allin vs. Matt Hardy – 1,170,000 viewers (down 71,000), 561,000 in 18-49 (down 5,000)
Q8: End of Allin vs. Hardy – 1,205,000 viewers (up 35,000), 599,000 in 18-49 (up 38,000)

It had a 0.16 in 12-17 (up 45.5%), 0.26 in 18-34 (up 73.3%), 0.62 in 35-49 (up 48.5%) and 0.50 in 50+ (up 108.3%). The audience was 62.8% male in 18-49 and 56.6% male in 12-17.


----------



## yeahright2

3venflow said:


> Here's those quarter hours with descriptions:
> 
> Q1: Young Bucks interview/MJF & Mike Tyson segment/Bucks vs. PAC and Rey Fenix – 1,190,000 viewers, 587,000 in 18-49
> Q2: End of Young Bucks vs. Death Triangle – 1,226,000 viewers (up 36,000), 558,000 in 18-49 (down 29,000)
> Q3: Dark Order & Hangman Page segment/Inner Circle & Mike Tyson interview/Jade Cargill vs. Red Velvet – 1,193,000 viewers (down 33,000), 534,000 in 18-49 (down 24,000)
> Q4: End of Cargill vs. Velvet/Britt Baker promo/Anthony Ogogo vs. Cole Carter/Miro promo – 1,173,000 viewers (down 20,000), 538,000 in 18-49 (up 4,000)
> Q5: Chris Jericho vs. Dax Harwood/Bullet Club interview – 1,350,000 viewers (up 177,000), 595,000 in 18-49 (down 57,000)
> Q6: Kris Statlander vs. Amber Nova/Team Taz promo – 1,241,000 viewers (down 108,000), 566,000 in 18-49 (down 29,000)
> Q7: Christian, Taz & Powerhouse Hobbs segment/Darby Allin vs. Matt Hardy – 1,170,000 viewers (down 71,000), 561,000 in 18-49 (down 5,000)
> Q8: End of Allin vs. Hardy – 1,205,000 viewers (up 35,000), 599,000 in 18-49 (up 38,000)
> 
> It had a 0.16 in 12-17 (up 45.5%), 0.26 in 18-34 (up 73.3%), 0.62 in 35-49 (up 48.5%) and 0.50 in 50+ (up 108.3%). The audience was 62.8% male in 18-49 and 56.6% male in 12-17.


Matt Hardy is a draw. Chris Jericho is not


----------



## rich110991

yeahright2 said:


> Matt Hardy is a draw. Chris Jericho is not


Isn’t that an error? It went up on Jericho’s match the most? Demo God!


----------



## yeahright2

rich110991 said:


> Isn’t that an error? It went up on Jericho’s match the most? Demo God!


no? *595,000 in 18-49 (down 57,000) * The Demo God is no God if his demo loses viewers.  Statistics is a great thing, you can spin them almost however you want


----------



## rich110991

yeahright2 said:


> no? *595,000 in 18-49 (down 57,000) * The Demo God is no God if his demo loses viewers.  Statistics is a great thing, you can spin them almost however you want


Think you need to take a closer look at the statistics mate and then spin them again


----------



## yeahright2

rich110991 said:


> Think you need to take a closer look at the statistics mate and then spin them again


Nah. I saw it was the highest rated segment, but where´s the fun in that?


----------



## rich110991

yeahright2 said:


> Nah. I saw it was the highest rated segment, but where´s the fun in that?


Lol nice try at a swerve

So Jericho is the draw 😁


----------



## yeahright2

rich110991 said:


> Lol nice try at a swerve
> 
> So Jericho is the draw 😁


Hey, the numbers doesn´t lie. If he loses viewers in his demo while Matt gains some, then Matt is the draw in that demo., even if Jericho has a higher overall viewer number. (of course, it has nothing to do with Matt being in a title match LOL)


----------



## rich110991

yeahright2 said:


> Hey, the numbers doesn´t lie. If he loses viewers in his demo while Matt gains some, then Matt is the draw in that demo., even if Jericho has a higher overall viewer number. (of course, it has nothing to do with Matt being in a title match LOL)


Oh so you still haven’t noticed the error then?? Jericho didn’t lose viewers in the demo, he gained them, so your point is invalid


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

What’s great is that they mostly stayed around that 1.2 million number in each quarter. No big losses from that, and 1.35 million for the Jericho match is strong. Good stuff.


----------



## KingofKings1524

Firefromthegods said:


> @The Wood don't worry you'll get Dorothy and her little dog next time. AEWs biggest problem is still its inconsistency. Just take the L this week and let the wizard have this one


No! Outlier! Ad hominem! Straw-man! Rent free! Etc!


----------



## Savage Elbow

Didn't Mike finally stop feeling ashamed about his Wednesday night activities & actually advertise what he was up to this week on his social medias? He'd never done that before had he, maybe that's where a chunk of the views came from if that is the case?


----------



## yeahright2

rich110991 said:


> Oh so you still haven’t noticed the error then?? Jericho didn’t lose viewers in the demo, he gained them, so your point is invalid












I read it was down by 57K, so until the op @3venflow corrects it, I´m not gonna accept any logic


----------



## Erik.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1383153010289700865


----------



## 3venflow

Demo God.


----------



## rich110991

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1383150307610349572
Looks like we could end up with another TNT title match being advertised for next week too. Darby/Jungle Boy I’m guessing.


----------



## Prosper

Erik. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1383153010289700865


Lol they’ll be beating RAW by ALL OUT if this keeps up




rich110991 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1383150307610349572
> Looks like we could end up with another TNT title match being advertised for next week too. Darby/Jungle Boy I’m guessing.


Yeah Darby vs Jungle Boy would be my guess. Either that or Shida/Conti will main event.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Firefromthegods said:


> @The Wood don't worry you'll get Dorothy and her little dog next time. AEWs biggest problem is still its inconsistency. Just take the L this week and let the wizard have this one


Made me chuckle 🤣👍🍻


----------



## Not Lying

rich110991 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1383150307610349572
> Looks like we could end up with another TNT title match being advertised for next week too. *Darby/Jungle Boy* I’m guessing.


I would love to see that.


----------



## Klitschko

Lol at Will Hobbs being in the top 5. I mean, I like the guy. His bitch tits remind me of mine whenever I stop eating healthy but cmon bruh lol.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Two Sheds said:


> I think what I disagree with most today is the people who say longer automatically equals better. Now, I do not say longer equals BAD, but guys who are good at telling stories can do it in in 8 minute TV matches or 15-20 minutes in a big match. 30+ minute matches should be the outliers. I just see too much of guys wanting to "get their movez in" vs telling a story that makes sense and get themselves more over. It is classic short term thinking vs long term thinking to me.


I had the same problem with the WWE in the last few years that I have with Dynamite now, it doesn't feel like matches, it's like two guys who keep going for no reason, they are plodding along. For the WWE I saw it happened even more when Raw got to 3 hours where they basically threw guys outthere to fill the time. Like it was too hard for them to come up with storylines so they just sent guys outthere having matches, most of the time with little psychology. AEW are doing the same thing only it's spot fest and outside of the ring dives and kick outs. People doing moves into nothingness. Plodding along.


----------



## IronMan8

I was impressed by this week's rating.

However, AEW has already been worth 1.1 million each week when you include the 7-day demand. This 1.1 million average includes the NXT fans who missed the show and decided to catch up later. Therefore, the 1.2 million this week makes a lot of sense.

If this week's 7-day figure isn't much larger, then it does tamper the impact of what this 1.2 million figure really means. It would mean the 1.2 million figure is mostly a reflection of the "catchup" viewers watching live because they didn't have NXT to draw them away. 

Therefore, it's possible the 1.2 million viewers is NOT an increase in actual viewership for AEW this week. But time will tell.


----------



## Millennial

IronMan8 said:


> I was impressed by this week's rating.
> 
> However, AEW has already been worth 1.1 million each week when you include the 7-day demand. This 1.1 million average includes the NXT fans who missed the show and decided to catch up later. Therefore, the 1.2 million this week makes a lot of sense.
> 
> If this week's 7-day figure isn't much larger, then it does tamper the impact of what this 1.2 million figure really means. It would mean the 1.2 million figure is mostly a reflection of the "catchup" viewers watching live because they didn't have NXT to draw them away.
> 
> Therefore, it's possible the 1.2 million viewers is NOT an increase in actual viewership for AEW this week. But time will tell.


Increase or not the final live viewing count is what matters from a network standpoint. TNT must feel like they are getting a bargain with the low rights fees they paid. If these numbers hold up I can see AEW negotiating a much larger rights fee when it comes up for renewal.

Wasn't TNA drawing similar numbers on Spike? In 2021 for any non-WWE wrestling company to be drawing 1million+ is a huge achievement. I still remember that piss ant comment made by Triple H at the Hall of Fame ceremony a couple years back. How the tides have turned.

Even if Tyson and the Jericho WWE podcast helped the numbers a bit I do not think it was all down to this. Viewership stayed mostly steady and above a million throughout the show, so even if it was crossover NXT fans tuning in it shows that they were enjoying what they were seeing. I'm confident the numbers will stay above a million going forward unless the NHL has an effect? I'm not familiar with how popular the NHL is in America.

This week's Dynamite was excellent. One thing I find is that Elevation and Dark put me to sleep but the format of Dynamite is much more compelling with more star power and storytelling. Well done to Tony Khan and all at AEW, they should be proud of themselves.

From a business standpoint it appears that the start-up risks have paid off. Here comes the money. I have faith in Tony Khan, I'm not sure what this money mark rubbish is all about. All I see is him running a successful business. There was a true money mark in the UK who started up the 5 Star Wrestling promotion, they booked all the big names (Rey Mysterio, John Morrison and other free agents at the time), had a national tv deal with Freesports and ran big arenas. The problem was that the shows ran empty of fans and after a few weeks they went bankrupt. The owner even offered CM Punk a million pounds to wrestle for him. The guy didn't seem to know how to run a business although he had the money to make it a success. Tony Khan is the opposite of this guy.


----------



## VIP86

people will look for anything to make Tony Khan look more successful

if this week's rating suddenly made Tony Khan look like a good booker
then by the same logic, Vince McMahon must be a genius booker since he gets better ratings, right ??

the sooner people realise that Tony Khan is an idiot in terms of booking just like Vince McMahon
the better for the future of AEW
praising Tony Khan's inept booking ability is actually very damaging for AEW's future

AEW badly needs a Booker, and neither Tony Khan or his EVPs are remotely suitable for this position


----------



## IronMan8

Millennial said:


> Increase or not the final live viewing count is what matters from a network standpoint. TNT must feel like they are getting a bargain with the low rights fees they paid. If these numbers hold up I can see AEW negotiating a much larger rights fee when it comes up for renewal.
> 
> Wasn't TNA drawing similar numbers on Spike? In 2021 for any non-WWE wrestling company to be drawing 1million+ is a huge achievement. I still remember that piss ant comment made by Triple H at the Hall of Fame ceremony a couple years back. How the tides have turned.
> 
> Even if Tyson and the Jericho WWE podcast helped the numbers a bit I do not think it was all down to this. Viewership stayed mostly steady and above a million throughout the show, so even if it was crossover NXT fans tuning in it shows that they were enjoying what they were seeing. I'm confident the numbers will stay above a million going forward unless the NHL has an effect? I'm not familiar with how popular the NHL is in America.
> 
> This week's Dynamite was excellent. One thing I find is that Elevation and Dark put me to sleep but the format of Dynamite is much more compelling with more star power and storytelling. Well done to Tony Khan and all at AEW, they should be proud of themselves.
> 
> From a business standpoint it appears that the start-up risks have paid off. Here comes the money. I have faith in Tony Khan, I'm not sure what this money mark rubbish is all about. All I see is him running a successful business. There was a true money mark in the UK who started up the 5 Star Wrestling promotion, they booked all the big names (Rey Mysterio, John Morrison and other free agents at the time), had a national tv deal with Freesports and ran big arenas. The problem was that the shows ran empty of fans and after a few weeks they went bankrupt. The owner even offered CM Punk a million pounds to wrestle for him. The guy didn't seem to know how to run a business although he had the money to make it a success. Tony Khan is the opposite of this guy.


The sustained rating across the 2 hours is a good point. It does seem to indicate the NXT viewers who normally watch AEW later in the week didn’t get bored. That’s important, because there was a risk that AEW lost some of the NXT audience completely, and that didn’t happen in week 1.

My main point is the 1.2 million figure is not an indication of an increase in viewership.

AEW has been getting 1.1 million every week when you include the NXT fans who watch AEW on delay.

TNT still benefits from those 7-day viewers, so if the total hasn’t increased, then from TNT’s point of view, this week’s figure isn’t as impressive as it appears to fans.

It’s still a positive number for two main reasons:

1. There wasn’t a guarantee the NXT viewers would watch it live, but they did

2. They stuck around for the full 2 hours

At a glance, I’m tentatively expecting AEW to hover around the 1 million mark for a while now, but I’m still concerned about a lack of pull for that 2nd million.

That 2nd million will come from non-NXT and non-AEW viewers, and we’re yet to see any indication that their product appeals to anyone but the hardcores they already have.


----------



## Millennial

IronMan8 said:


> The sustained rating across the 2 hours is a good point. It does seem to indicate the NXT viewers who normally watch AEW later in the week didn’t get bored. That’s important, because there was a risk that AEW lost some of the NXT audience completely, and that didn’t happen in week 1.
> 
> My main point is the 1.2 million figure is not an indication of an increase in viewership.
> 
> AEW has been getting 1.1 million every week when you include the NXT fans who watch AEW on delay.
> 
> TNT still benefits from those 7-day viewers, so if the total hasn’t increased, then from TNT’s point of view, this week’s figure isn’t as impressive as it appears to fans.
> 
> It’s still a positive number for two main reasons:
> 
> 1. There wasn’t a guarantee the NXT viewers would watch it live, but they did
> 
> 2. They stuck around for the full 2 hours
> 
> At a glance, I’m tentatively expecting AEW to hover around the 1 million mark for a while now, but I’m still concerned about a lack of pull for that 2nd million.
> 
> That 2nd million will come from non-NXT and non-AEW viewers, and we’re yet to see any indication that their product appeals to anyone but the hardcores they already have.


TNT stands to gain financially from advertising revenue the higher the viewership and demo during the live tv broadcast. I don't think advertisers care how many people watch on DVR.


----------



## IronMan8

Millennial said:


> TNT stands to gain financially from advertising revenue the higher the viewership and demo during the live tv broadcast. I don't think advertisers care how many people watch on DVR.


There is a benefit to live viewership, but in terms of the total package for a new, mega TV deal, TNT would not be looking at this week’s number as an upwards trend that is expected to continue rising.

What I mean is the total viewers has not increased in nearly 2 years, so this week’s figure is unlikely to inspire TNT to pay for the potential of exploding growth moving forward. 

To really command a mega TV deal, AEW will need to demonstrate an upward graph, not a stagnate or slightly falling one. 

We’re yet to see any evidence that AEW’s audience has grown, we’ve only seen a shifting of how people consume their product depending on the situation.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Millennial said:


> TNT stands to gain financially from advertising revenue the higher the viewership and demo during the live tv broadcast. I don't think advertisers care how many people watch on DVR.


DVR is not without value - hence the 'picture in picture' to keep the viewer watching

maybe 20% of the value? but not zero


----------



## The Wood

Sorry Rap, I haven’t replied to your post yet because I want to give it time. I’m not ignoring you, friend.



The Definition of Technician said:


> Most people didn't expect *THIS* *PARTICULAR SHOW *to get that number it would have been an insane to imaging them almost doubling last week's. HOWEVER, most rational posters have predicted that AEW is on (which to the typical haters is not enough), they still wouldn't get a million viewers.
> 
> I didn't make any prediction for this show because I didn't really like the main event of last week, but 've been saying for the past year no competition they can average 1m easily, and it was proven by the few unopposed big shows they did last year. Yet you still had people doubting that and people that thought it was impossible for them to crack that 1m viewers EVEN IF THERE WAS NO COMPETITION.
> 
> 
> 
> Like this. What's up.
> 
> Care to admit they can average 1m without NXT?


They aren’t averaging shit yet. 



DammitChrist said:


> Excuse me if I refuse to take you seriously at all here when you keep blatantly ignoring the fact that anti-smark is actually a real term (especially when it’s been used as a wrestling term since 2005) and when you shamelessly pretend that there aren’t a great number of folks on here who support promos over wrestling matches.
> 
> Aren’t you the same guy who kept acting like AEW was dying, and that they weren’t (ever) going to reach 1 million viewers again? How did those claims (and your 850 K prediction) work out for you?
> 
> That says a lot honestly about yourself here with the delusions and the irony about me “living in my own world” when you consistently continue to be wrong, especially on this thread 😂


Anti-smark is a term made up by idiots that doesn’t make any sense. This has been chewed through. It’s not a wrestling term. It’s an internet wrestling nerd term. It doesn’t count for shit.

Promos and matches aren’t a dichotomy. They inform each other.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> Sorry Rap, I haven’t replied to your post yet because I want to give it time. I’m not ignoring you, friend.
> 
> 
> 
> They aren’t averaging shit yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-smark is a term made up by idiots that doesn’t make any sense. This has been chewed through. It’s not a wrestling term. It’s an internet wrestling nerd term. It doesn’t count for shit.
> 
> Promos and matches aren’t a dichotomy. They inform each other.


Damn, I didn't realize that it's eating you up alive over the fact that anti-smark is actually a real wrestling term. Again, that term has existed since 2005 at least.

If anything, it'd truly be idiotic to deny the existence of that term, and pretending that it makes no sense. You generally sound like a pessimistic/ignorant anti-smark, so I can understand why you keep getting annoyed by that term since it kinda describes you too.


----------



## rbl85

For me DVR is a good way to see the depth of viewers.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> Damn, I didn't realize that it's eating you up alive over the fact that anti-smark is actually a real wrestling term. Again, that term has existed since 2005 at least.
> 
> If anything, it'd truly be idiotic to deny the existence of that term, and pretending that it makes no sense. You generally sound like a pessimistic/ignorant anti-smark, so I can understand why you keep getting annoyed by that term since it kinda describes you too.


Keep lying.


----------



## Hayabusasc

A quick 10 second google shows people using the term "Anti Smark" for atleast five years including on this very forum.

So it is actually a term..


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> Keep lying.


If I was lying to you, then I’d actually be lying here; but I’ve told you nothing but the truth in my previous posts


----------



## Brad Boyd

This ratings thread is the most dramatic of all places in the AEW section lol. Fun coming in here even though I don't generally give a shit what numbers any brand draws. Just give me something entertaining. I don't care if Tysons angle gets over and gets 2 million viewers on youtube when it's still boring to see him involved with Inner Circle.


----------



## A PG Attitude

The Wood said:


> Sorry Rap, I haven’t replied to your post yet because I want to give it time. I’m not ignoring you, friend.
> 
> 
> 
> They aren’t averaging shit yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-smark is a term made up by idiots that doesn’t make any sense. This has been chewed through. It’s not a wrestling term. It’s an internet wrestling nerd term. It doesn’t count for shit.
> 
> Promos and matches aren’t a dichotomy. They inform each other.


Why are you even here. You obviously dont like AEW, why dont you put your free time into something you enjoy instead of doing everyone's heads in on this forum?


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

Two Sheds said:


> I think what I disagree with most today is the people who say longer automatically equals better. Now, I do not say longer equals BAD, but guys who are good at telling stories can do it in in 8 minute TV matches or 15-20 minutes in a big match. 30+ minute matches should be the outliers. I just see too much of guys wanting to "get their movez in" vs telling a story that makes sense and get themselves more over. It is classic short term thinking vs long term thinking to me.


I think the "getting their movez in" type of matches are perfectly fine for people we don't really know much about -- if someone new comes in and takes 90% of the offense from the veteran, why bother caring about them? The way someone debuts gives people a reason to perk up and pay attention when the next time they have a match on because people know it's gonna be crazy. Once the audience gets to know them and they're starting to get over you can start telling stories, because there is already that initial investment. 

There's a reason you see that style a lot on the indies, it's because you're traveling around to different promotions with audiences who might not know you, how do you get over? Get your shit in! But now that a lot of these young indie talents are starting to be used on weekly television, at a certain point you just have to have the sit down and start getting them working more on character and storytelling.


----------



## The Wood

Hayabusasc said:


> A quick 10 second google shows people using the term "Anti Smark" for atleast five years including on this very forum.
> 
> So it is actually a term..


It’s not an industry term. Not at all. It’s a bunch of dirt sheet-reading bullshit from a bunch of people who don’t know.

I think it was Rap who reasoned out how it doesn’t even make sense. What does it even mean? It means what the using it wants it to mean. 



A PG Attitude said:


> Why are you even here. You obviously dont like AEW, why dont you put your free time into something you enjoy instead of doing everyone's heads in on this forum?


Because I enjoy talking about wrestling. Lol at more “don’t watch” gatekeeping.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

VIP86 said:


> people will look for anything to make Tony Khan look more successful
> 
> if this week's rating suddenly made Tony Khan look like a good booker
> then by the same logic, Vince McMahon must be a genius booker since he gets better ratings, right ??
> 
> the sooner people realise that Tony Khan is an idiot in terms of booking just like Vince McMahon
> the better for the future of AEW
> praising Tony Khan's inept booking ability is actually very damaging for AEW's future
> 
> AEW badly needs a Booker, and neither Tony Khan or his EVPs are remotely suitable for this position


Anybody that springs to mind? Also what do you think he should be doing better as a booker, like who should be getting pushed, who should be winning, what are the money angles they should be leaning into?


----------



## Brad Boyd

The Wood said:


> Because I enjoy talking about wrestling. Lol at more “don’t watch” gatekeeping.


It's more of this patronizing BS where people are so bothered by negative opinions about AEW being expressed that they have to state the obvious and say "Don't watch if you're gonna complain" I hear it all the time. I criticize an angle, a booking decision, and I might've praised 3 or 4 segments and matches beforehand on the same show and people STILL tell me to "not watch" Getting tired of those remarks myself. It's like I'm given life advice that I never asked for. Maybe don't read my comments and/or get affected by them or put me on ignore ?


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> It’s not an industry term. Not at all. It’s a bunch of dirt sheet-reading bullshit from a bunch of people who don’t know.
> 
> I think it was Rap who reasoned out how it doesn’t even make sense. What does it even mean? It means what the using it wants it to mean.
> 
> 
> 
> Because I enjoy talking about wrestling. Lol at more “don’t watch” gatekeeping.


Except that wrestling term does exist and it DOES make sense. 

You simply just don’t want it to make sense because you’re in denial.

That’s all.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> Except that wrestling term does exist and it DOES make sense.
> 
> You simply just don’t want it to make sense because you’re in denial.
> 
> That’s all.


Lol, you are unreasonable, so I’ll just say this to whoever browses past this convo: DammitChrist is wrong. No one in the industry uses it. Everyone on the internet is a “smart fan.” Call them smarks, call them marks. Whatever. No one uses “anti-smark,” because it’s a cannibalistic and contradictory term.

DC _thinks_ it means someone that...doesn’t like what smarks usually like? I guess. But that relies on a hasty generalisation of what that is. ie Someone that doesn’t like what DC likes, even if DC is in the minority.


----------



## DaSlacker

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Anybody that springs to mind? Also what do you think he should be doing better as a booker, like who should be getting pushed, who should be winning, what are the money angles they should be leaning into?


Personally I think he should bring in D'Amore and Callis to co-write Dynamite. They do what they can with Impact, but interest and financial investment in that brand plummeted back in 2014. It is what it is and they know it. They are still talented and make a good team.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> Lol, you are unreasonable, so I’ll just say this to whoever browses past this convo: DammitChrist is wrong. No one in the industry uses it. Everyone on the internet is a “smart fan.” Call them smarks, call them marks. Whatever. No one uses “anti-smark,” because it’s a cannibalistic and contradictory term.
> 
> DC _thinks_ it means someone that...doesn’t like what smarks usually like? I guess. But that relies on a hasty generalisation of what that is. ie Someone that doesn’t like what DC likes, even if DC is in the minority.


Aren’t you the same guy who continuously finds a way to discredit anything that the company does (just because AEW exists and how it doesn’t seem to cater to your interests)? 

You’re the last poster on here to call anyone “unreasonable” tbh. 

For the record, thanks for revealing the fact that you still have no clue what an anti-smark really is here. 

It’s not like the term has already been explained to you multiple times already 😂


----------



## One Shed

The Wood said:


> Lol, you are unreasonable, so I’ll just say this to whoever browses past this convo: DammitChrist is wrong. No one in the industry uses it. Everyone on the internet is a “smart fan.” Call them smarks, call them marks. Whatever. No one uses “anti-smark,” because it’s a cannibalistic and contradictory term.
> 
> DC _thinks_ it means someone that...doesn’t like what smarks usually like? I guess. But that relies on a hasty generalisation of what that is. ie Someone that doesn’t like what DC likes, even if DC is in the minority.


The only thing it could mean logically would be "someone who is against a person being a smark." A smark is someone who knows wrestling is scripted so that would now include all humans over the age of about five. So this is a group of people who do not like that people know wrestling is scripted? But they themselves also know it is scripted, so they hate themselves? It makes no sense as a term to be used logically unless you take it to mean "people in the industry that do not like that people outside of the industry know it is scripted," which today would be about one person: Cornette.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> Aren’t you the same guy who continuously finds a way to discredit anything that the company does (just because AEW exists and how it doesn’t seem to cater to your interests)?
> 
> You’re the last poster on here to call anyone “unreasonable” tbh.
> 
> For the record, thanks for revealing the fact that you still have no clue what an anti-smark really is here.
> 
> It’s not like the term has already been explained to you multiple times already 😂


Relevancy? I mean, a reasonable person would try and stay on track, wouldn’t they?

No, I don’t know what anti-smark is *because it’s not a real term.*

You’ve had it explained to you that it’s not real too.



Two Sheds said:


> The only thing it could mean logically would be "someone who is against a person being a smark." A smark is someone who knows wrestling is scripted so that would now include all humans over the age of about five. So this is a group of people who do not like that people know wrestling is scripted? But they themselves also know it is scripted, so they hate themselves? It makes no sense as a term to be used logically unless you take it to mean people in the industry that do not like that people outside of the industry know it is scripted, which today would be about one person: Cornette.


Exactly. It makes no sense. Everyone on the internet is a smark.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> Relevancy? I mean, a reasonable person would try and stay on track, wouldn’t they?
> 
> No, I don’t know what anti-smark is *because it’s not a real term.*
> 
> You’ve had it explained to you that it’s not real too.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. It makes no sense. Everyone on the internet is a smark.


Yep, you still don’t know what an anti-snark really is due to your ignorance, and due to your laziness to look up the meaning of that term here on Google (or at least try to scroll back the last dozens of pages).

That term actually does exist and it does make sense whether you like it or not. 

Get over it.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> Yep, you still don’t know what an anti-snark really is due to your ignorance, and due to your laziness to look up the meaning of that term here on Google (or at least try to scroll back the last dozens of pages).
> 
> That term actually does exist and it does make sense whether you like it or not.
> 
> Get over it.


It literally isn’t or doesn’t though. That’s why you can only keep saying it does without any evidence.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> It literally isn’t or doesn’t though. That’s why you can only keep saying it does without any evidence.


I shouldn’t even have to spoonfeed you the definition of that term simply because you’re too lazy to go search it up yourself 😂 

Acknowledge that anti-smark exists as a term and how it truly makes sense. Otherwise, you’ll just keep getting frustrated over these reminders (not just from me too).


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

The Wood said:


> It’s not an industry term. Not at all. It’s a bunch of dirt sheet-reading bullshit from a bunch of people who don’t know.
> 
> I think it was Rap who reasoned out how it doesn’t even make sense. What does it even mean? It means what the using it wants it to mean.
> 
> 
> 
> Because I enjoy talking about wrestling. Lol at more “don’t watch” gatekeeping.


"What does it even mean?" 

Is "smart mark" a wrestling term? I mean Brian Pillman did use it in one of his most widely known and highly regarded promos almost 25 years ago right? So an "anti-smark" is someone who hates "smart marks." Seems pretty simple and straight forward to me. What is a "smark" well based off usage for almost a quarter century, it's somebody who reads wrestling industry newsletters or "dirt-sheets" listens to "shoot interviews" and generally tries to get a peak behind the curtain of the oftentimes secretive wrestling industry. 

Realistically, anybody spending time on a wrestling forum in 2021 is to some extent a "smark" just due to the way the internet, social media, books, podcasts etc has opened almost every wrestler up to the microscope of the public eye. But there has been a backlash as a result, and there is a segment of super-fans who actively hate that the industry has become as transparent as it has and try to gatekeep and put other wrestling fans down because they view them as "smarks," and see them as ruining the illusion and immersion of wrestling. 

"Anti-smarks" generally they sound something like this -- "It’s a bunch of dirt sheet-reading bullshit from a bunch of people who don’t know." "Anti-smark is a term made up by idiots that doesn’t make any sense. This has been chewed through. It’s not a wrestling term. It’s an internet wrestling nerd term. It doesn’t count for shit."

To deny this kind of attitude has a foothold amongst a segment of fans, is just denying reality at this point. Go read the weekly "Zero Fucks Friday" thread on r/SquaredCircle or the comment section on a Cornette youtube video and it's plain to see. Anti-smarks are a thing.


----------



## The Wood

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> "What does it even mean?"
> 
> Is "smart mark" a wrestling term? I mean Brian Pillman did use it in one of his most widely known and highly regarded promos almost 25 years ago right? So an "anti-smark" is someone who hates "smart marks." Seems pretty simple and straight forward to me. What is a "smark" well based off usage for almost a quarter century, it's somebody who reads wrestling industry newsletters or "dirt-sheets" listens to "shoot interviews" and generally tries to get a peak behind the curtain of the oftentimes secretive wrestling industry.
> 
> Realistically, anybody spending time on a wrestling forum in 2021 is to some extent a "smark" just due to the way the internet, social media, books, podcasts etc has opened almost every wrestler up to the microscope of the public eye. But there has been a backlash as a result, and there is a segment of super-fans who actively hate that the industry has become as transparent as it has and try to gatekeep and put other wrestling fans down because they view them as "smarks," and see them as ruining the illusion and immersion of wrestling.
> 
> "Anti-smarks" generally they sound something like this -- "It’s a bunch of dirt sheet-reading bullshit from a bunch of people who don’t know." "Anti-smark is a term made up by idiots that doesn’t make any sense. This has been chewed through. It’s not a wrestling term. It’s an internet wrestling nerd term. It doesn’t count for shit."
> 
> To deny this kind of attitude has a foothold amongst a segment of fans, is just denying reality at this point. Go read the weekly "Zero Fucks Friday" thread on r/SquaredCircle or the comment section on a Cornette youtube video and it's plain to see. Anti-smarks are a thing.


Those are smarks. You just described smarks.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> Those are smarks. You just described smarks.


No, he accurately described the meaning of anti-smarks right there near the end of his post. 

You’re just denying the truth because you were proven wrong (about its existence and its “lack” of meaning too).


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

DaSlacker said:


> Personally I think he should bring in D'Amore and Callis to co-write Dynamite. They do what they can with Impact, but interest and financial investment in that brand plummeted back in 2014. It is what it is and they know it. They are still talented and make a good team.


I've never really heard much from D'Amore but from what I've heard in interviews with Callis and onscreen, he seems like he's got a great eye for talent and how to book and manage a good angle. As much as I love Kenny as an in-ring performer, he can be pretty damned goofy and over-acts like a mfer; Sometimes it works well, but realistically Don has been the glue holding together a very shaky reign. Maybe the work with Kenny will lead to something more in the future for Don in AEW. 

Honestly I really wish they had started the whole AEW-Impact angle when Impact could actually get crowds back. I wasn't watching Impact back in the day and was interested to get into the show when they started doing the cross-over stuff, but with no fans Impact looked, sounded and felt so second rate it actually turned me away. If they could have waited for a packed crowd it would have made all the difference in putting over their own talent to all the new viewers tuning in.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> No, he accurately described the meaning of anti-smarks right there near the end of his post.
> 
> You’re just denying the truth because you were proven wrong (about its existence and its “lack” of meaning too).


So you are an anti-smart? I mean, you display all the alleged traits. Calling people “anti-smark” would be an anti-smark thing to do, since your turning the sword towards wrestling fans on the internet.

Lol, this is so stupid. And you’re also the guy who gets mad when people say “Orange Trashidy.” So weird.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

The Wood said:


> Those are smarks. You just described smarks.


Most smarks are fine with things being more transparent and just talking about their interest, whether it be in the ring or backstage, instead of calling other fans dirt-sheet reading nerds who are ruining the business, that's the difference. 

It's very subtle. /s


----------



## One Shed

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Most smarks are fine with things being more transparent and just talking about their interest, whether it be in the ring or backstage, instead of calling other fans dirt-sheet reading nerds who are ruining the business, that's the difference.
> 
> It's very subtle. /s


Sticking the prefix "anti" in front of a word has an actual meaning. The difference cannot be subtle by definition.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

Two Sheds said:


> Sticking the prefix "anti" in front of a word has an actual meaning. The difference cannot be subtle by definition.


/s indicates sarcasm.


----------



## The Wood

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Most smarks are fine with things being more transparent and just talking about their interest, whether it be in the ring or backstage, instead of calling other fans dirt-sheet reading nerds who are ruining the business, that's the difference.
> 
> It's very subtle. /s


So to be an anti-smark you have to believe that wrestling fans are ruining wrestling. Lol, listen to yourselves. This is a made-up boogeyman.

Wrestling has exposed itself. Some wrestling fans are mouthbreathers. Others are cool. This is baseless reductionism and tribalism.

Some smarks like Kenny Omega. Others think he is an overrated ham. This is true for almost everything in wrestling. Some people think Kevin Nash is a clod and he’s other people’s favourite wrestler. There is no smark/anti-smark divide there.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> So you are an anti-smart? I mean, you display all the alleged traits. Calling people “anti-smark” would be an anti-smark thing to do, since your turning the sword towards wrestling fans on the internet.
> 
> Lol, this is so stupid. And you’re also the guy who gets mad when people say “Orange Trashidy.” So weird.


No, I am a ‘smark’ since I embrace the fact that we’re all geeks on here sharing similar interests, and that I do agree with what (most) of what wrestling fans want to see.

I also appreciate the wrestling/workrate aspect, and I don’t think that the industry is dying anytime soon. AEW, NJPW, and NXT are consistently good wrestling shows too. 

Plus, Meltzer gets wrestling more than Cornette nowadays. 

Anyway, some folks should work on their typos btw.


----------



## One Shed

The Wood said:


> So to be an anti-smark you have to believe that wrestling fans are ruining wrestling. Lol, listen to yourselves. This is a made-up boogeyman.
> 
> Wrestling has exposed itself. Some wrestling fans are mouthbreathers. Others are cool. This is baseless reductionism and tribalism.
> 
> Some smarks like Kenny Omega. Others think he is an overrated ham. This is true for almost everything in wrestling. Some people think Kevin Nash is a clod and he’s other people’s favourite wrestler. There is no smark/anti-smark divide there.


If I read all of this correctly, your debate here is whether or not this is an industry term, correct?

I am aware some in the IWC have tried to redefine the word smark to mean people who like the tiny gymnasts doing movez for no well defined reason or consequence (they would not choose the same words as me to define it, but we mean the same thing. To be as kind to @DammitChrist as I can be, we can use a term i hate in "workrate guys") so being anti that would mean wrestling fans, which we already have a good word for. So, I get that words get created and take on new meanings but this second definition came purely from the IWC, not the wrestling industry, so cannot be an industry term. I could say the word "router" also now means the same thing as a defibrillator and if it took off in popular parlance it would be a real word, but it would not be from the medical industry, it would be from me.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

The Wood said:


> So to be an anti-smark you have to believe that wrestling fans are ruining wrestling. Lol, listen to yourselves. This is a made-up boogeyman.
> 
> Wrestling has exposed itself. Some wrestling fans are mouthbreathers. Others are cool. This is baseless reductionism and tribalism.
> 
> Some smarks like Kenny Omega. Others think he is an overrated ham. This is true for almost everything in wrestling. Some people think Kevin Nash is a clod and he’s other people’s favourite wrestler. There is no smark/anti-smark divide there.


"So to be an anti-smark you have to believe that wrestling fans are ruining wrestling. Lol, listen to yourselves. This is a made-up boogeyman."

Lol, dude I can't tell you how many times I've actually seen that exact sentiment expressed, not from you personally but it's definitely a real thing. Like I said, there are a certain segment of fans who hate "smarks" because in their eyes they have ruined the illusion and immersion of wrestling by spending to much time looking behind the curtain. 

This isn't about an opinion on a wrestler or a match, style or angle, it's like you said yourself reductionist tribalism and it sucks -- but to say that it doesn't exist is just silly.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> No, I am a ‘smark’ since I embrace the fact that we’re all geeks on here sharing similar interests, and that I do agree with what (most) of what wrestling fans want to see.
> 
> I also appreciate the wrestling/workrate aspect, and I don’t think that the industry is dying anytime soon. AEW, NJPW, and NXT are consistently good wrestling shows too.
> 
> Plus, Meltzer gets wrestling more than Cornette nowadays.
> 
> Anyway, some folks should work on their typos btw.


What is it that (most) wrestling fans want to see? You’re coming from such a confirmation bias here. Do smarks hate Roman Reigns or think he is currently the best thing in wrestling? Go on, talk for everyone.

“Workrate” is not an industry term either, FYI. The term is “work” and most people don’t know what a good worker is. They _think_ they do, but their knowledge is largely second-hand through internet lore. Many smarks, for example, think that Hogan is a poor worker. There are many who know he is one of the best workers of all-time though.

What sort of wrestling fan doesn’t appreciate the “wrestling” part of wrestling? Is that the modern fan who only likes spotfests? Are Young Bucks fans anti-smarks since they advocate for the stripping of psychology from wrestling? Or are they just smarks because they find a relatively small echo chamber that reaffirms they’re amongst the greatest teams of all-time?

Are most fans who prefer, say, SmackDown to Dynamite anti-smarks? They probably think of internet fans as overly obsessive and don’t get the geekier stuff in wrestling that alleged pure smarks champion. If smarks, for example, think Kota Ibushi is the best wrestler on the planet, they’re going to find 10 people who vehemently disagree.

This term makes no sense. We’re all fucking smarks.


----------



## The Wood

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> "So to be an anti-smark you have to believe that wrestling fans are ruining wrestling. Lol, listen to yourselves. This is a made-up boogeyman."
> 
> Lol, dude I can't tell you how many times I've actually seen that exact sentiment expressed, not from you personally but it's definitely a real thing. Like I said, there are a certain segment of fans who hate "smarks" because in their eyes they have ruined the illusion and immersion of wrestling by spending to much time looking behind the curtain.
> 
> This isn't about an opinion on a wrestler or a match, style or angle, it's like you said yourself reductionist tribalism and it sucks -- but to say that it doesn't exist is just silly.


To clarify: I think modern wrestling crowds are pretentious as shit with their annoying chants. I don’t think live crowds coming back is going to be the big boon a lot of people on here think they are going to be, simply because they aren’t as authentically energised as crowds during hotter periods. And I know people who will not take their children to wrestling shows anymore because they hate the vibe they get from them. I know someone who had to console their child after they got yelled at by a “smark” because they dared to be a John Cena fan. Those types of fans _are_ shitty. That’s not being an anti-smark — that’s being a reasonable person.

But to have a preoccupying, priority A1, blame the fans for wrestling exposing itself? Nah. Are fans fickle? They can be. Is it annoying when they hijack shows because they don’t understand what a push is? Absolutely. Is it frustrating that they think they know way more than they do? It’s why it’s so satisfying to work them. But are the people buying tickets, ordering your PPVs, subscribing to your streaming services ruining wrestling? At worst they’re a bad look.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> What is it that (most) wrestling fans want to see? You’re coming from such a confirmation bias here. Do smarks hate Roman Reigns or think he is currently the best thing in wrestling? Go on, talk for everyone.
> 
> “Workrate” is not an industry term either, FYI. The term is “work” and most people don’t know what a good worker is. They _think_ they do, but their knowledge is largely second-hand through internet lore. Many smarks, for example, think that Hogan is a poor worker. There are many who know he is one of the best workers of all-time though.
> 
> What sort of wrestling fan doesn’t appreciate the “wrestling” part of wrestling? Is that the modern fan who only likes spotfests? Are Young Bucks fans anti-smarks since they advocate for the stripping of psychology from wrestling? Or are they just smarks because they find a relatively small echo chamber that reaffirms they’re amongst the greatest teams of all-time?
> 
> Are most fans who prefer, say, SmackDown to Dynamite anti-smarks? They probably think of internet fans as overly obsessive and don’t get the geekier stuff in wrestling that alleged pure smarks champion. If smarks, for example, think Kota Ibushi is the best wrestler on the planet, they’re going to find 10 people who vehemently disagree.
> 
> This term makes no sense. We’re all fucking smarks.


It's pretty sad that you STILL can't distinguish the difference between a "smark' and an anti-smark (who generally hate the workrate/wrestling aspect too).

Anyway, it's pretty obvious to anyone here with a clue that the anti-smark (sub)culture is just toxic. The anti-smarks are the ones (helping) kill interest for wrestling with their outdated, pessimistic, obnoxious, and delusional ideas/viewpoints. 

The industry isn't dying anytime soon, and they shouldn't bother listening to the complaints from anti-smarks since they're the toxic, vocal minority.


----------



## DaSlacker

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> I've never really heard much from D'Amore but from what I've heard in interviews with Callis and onscreen, he seems like he's got a great eye for talent and how to book and manage a good angle. As much as I love Kenny as an in-ring performer, he can be pretty damned goofy and over-acts like a mfer; Sometimes it works well, but realistically Don has been the glue holding together a very shaky reign. Maybe the work with Kenny will lead to something more in the future for Don in AEW.
> 
> Honestly I really wish they had started the whole AEW-Impact angle when Impact could actually get crowds back. I wasn't watching Impact back in the day and was interested to get into the show when they started doing the cross-over stuff, but with no fans Impact looked, sounded and felt so second rate it actually turned me away. If they could have waited for a packed crowd it would have made all the difference in putting over their own talent to all the new viewers tuning in.


D'Amore wrote TNA in when it first made it to TV. Then in 2006 the younger demo rating slipped a bit, they panicked and brought In Vince Russo to take over. Not ultra creative but like you say, he has a good idea for detail.

WCW was at its best when it had a lead guy with a specific vision (Bischoff) and two experienced guys who gelled together well when writing it (Kevin Sullivan and Terry Taylor). I think AEW has a shot here at emulating that kind of framework.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

The Wood said:


> To clarify: I think modern wrestling crowds are pretentious as shit with their annoying chants. I don’t think live crowds coming back is going to be the big boon a lot of people on here think they are going to be, simply because they aren’t as authentically energised as crowds during hotter periods. And I know people who will not take their children to wrestling shows anymore because they hate the vibe they get from them. I know someone who had to console their child after they got yelled at by a “smark” because they dared to be a John Cena fan. Those types of fans _are_ shitty. That’s not being an anti-smark — that’s being a reasonable person.
> 
> But to have a preoccupying, priority A1, blame the fans for wrestling exposing itself? Nah. Are fans fickle? They can be. Is it annoying when they hijack shows because they don’t understand what a push is? Absolutely. Is it frustrating that they think they know way more than they do? It’s why it’s so satisfying to work them. But are the people buying tickets, ordering your PPVs, subscribing to your streaming services ruining wrestling? At worst they’re a bad look.


Crowds are just energized in different ways these days I think. You can see it across all kinds of live events. Why that is, I'm not entirely sure, but you see it at rock and metal shows as well and just in how people interact generally.

As for that guy, he's just an asshole. You can be a "smark" and not particularly enjoy Super-Cena and his seemingly never ending push, but shouting down a kid is just a flat out dick move, probably more than likely also a drunk move. 

I'm not saying this is necessarily you but yeah there are people that hate other wrestling fans and comments like yours here "Is it frustrating that they think they know way more than they do? It’s why it’s so satisfying to work them." is the kind of weird seed that this kind elitist "anti-smark" mentality has generated out of.

Who are you working? Why are you as a fan trying to work other fans? And what makes you think you know more than they do as a fan yourself?

That kind of comment just reminds me of the gatekeeping and elitism that happens in the heavy metal scene. 

People only know what they know, if someone is acting pretentious about it, then yeah that's pretty lame, but if someone is just excited to learn more about what's going on and is interested in where the show is going, where is the problem?


----------



## tower_

Have mentioned that AEW has lost me as a weekly viewer but heard about the rating this week. That's very nice for them and I hope they are able to maintain a decent amount of it. I do hope to be able to enjoy watching wrestling again some day, and AEW is the best chance. Vince has lost me permanently. 

I think getting over 1m unopposed was not an insane expectation, but clearing it by 200k means that even if they take a step back over the next few weeks they can maintain over 1m which should be great for company morale and the investment the Khan's continue to pour in. Now I just need to hear that Hangman isnt wrestling goofs anymore and I might tune back in


----------



## tower_

By the way, I heard about the rating because it beat a big time NBA game Wednesday. That isnt nothing. We've all seen that competition has suppressed ratings in the past (obviously NXT was a huge effect but other sports have been as well)


----------



## One Shed

tower_ said:


> Have mentioned that AEW has lost me as a weekly viewer but heard about the rating this week. That's very nice for them and I hope they are able to maintain a decent amount of it. I do hope to be able to enjoy watching wrestling again some day, and AEW is the best chance. Vince has lost me permanently.
> 
> I think getting over 1m unopposed was not an insane expectation, but clearing it by 200k means that even if they take a step back over the next few weeks they can maintain over 1m which should be great for company morale and the investment the Khan's continue to pour in. Now I just need to hear that Hangman isnt wrestling goofs anymore and I might tune back in


Well, Hangman is at least not wrestling a goof this coming week, but he sure has been hanging out with them.


----------



## VIP86

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Anybody that springs to mind? Also what do you think he should be doing better as a booker, like who should be getting pushed, who should be winning, what are the money angles they should be leaning into?


Anybody who doesn't put garbage indy wannabe wrestlers on TV
Anybody who can present storylines that are believable and make sense
Anybody who knows how to focus on the strengths and hide the weaknesses of the wrestlers
Anybody who knows how to build stars that can keep the audience engaged for years to come
Anybody who doesn't hire every useless person just because they have friends inside
Anybody with a strong personality that can control the quality of what wrestlers do on his TV show

Tony Khan doesn't know how to do any of these things
because he's not a booker
he's a spoiled rich looser who wanted to live his childhood dream, with a billionaire father who can afford to spend hundred of millions just to make little Tony happy

and about who should be pushed or not
AEW has wrestlers with limitless potentials
but little TK chooses to put them in comedy acts and stupid storylines for months
just look at what he did with MJF (one of the best heels today)
he put him in a freaking musical

look at how Miro is presented, you can't possibly tell me that this is the right way to present a monster like this
arguing over video games !!!!!!!

look at the potential of Jungle Boy, what TK did with him ?
he teamed him up with a midget (literally)
and a guy with a dinosaur mask who's Green as grass

look at what he did with Hangman, to the Dark order he goes

and a lot more examples


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

tower_ said:


> Have mentioned that AEW has lost me as a weekly viewer but heard about the rating this week. That's very nice for them and I hope they are able to maintain a decent amount of it. I do hope to be able to enjoy watching wrestling again some day, and AEW is the best chance. Vince has lost me permanently.
> 
> I think getting over 1m unopposed was not an insane expectation, but clearing it by 200k means that even if they take a step back over the next few weeks they can maintain over 1m which should be great for company morale and the investment the Khan's continue to pour in. Now I just need to hear that Hangman isnt wrestling goofs anymore and I might tune back in


Hangman is wrestling Starks this week


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> It's pretty sad that you STILL can't distinguish the difference between a "smark' and an anti-smark (who generally hate the workrate/wrestling aspect too).
> 
> Anyway, it's pretty obvious to anyone here with a clue that the anti-smark (sub)culture is just toxic. The anti-smarks are the ones (helping) kill interest for wrestling with their outdated, pessimistic, obnoxious, and delusional ideas/viewpoints.
> 
> The industry isn't dying anytime soon, and they shouldn't bother listening to the complaints from anti-smarks since they're the toxic, vocal minority.


No, I can’t, because it doesn’t exist. You are describing yourself as best I can tell. There’s absolutely no content in what youre



BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Crowds are just energized in different ways these days I think. You can see it across all kinds of live events. Why that is, I'm not entirely sure, but you see it at rock and metal shows as well and just in how people interact generally.
> 
> As for that guy, he's just an asshole. You can be a "smark" and not particularly enjoy Super-Cena and his seemingly never ending push, but shouting down a kid is just a flat out dick move, probably more than likely also a drunk move.
> 
> I'm not saying this is necessarily you but yeah there are people that hate other wrestling fans and comments like yours here "Is it frustrating that they think they know way more than they do? It’s why it’s so satisfying to work them." is the kind of weird seed that this kind elitist "anti-smark" mentality has generated out of.
> 
> Who are you working? Why are you as a fan trying to work other fans? And what makes you think you know more than they do as a fan yourself?
> 
> That kind of comment just reminds me of the gatekeeping and elitism that happens in the heavy metal scene.
> 
> People only know what they know, if someone is acting pretentious about it, then yeah that's pretty lame, but if someone is just excited to learn more about what's going on and is interested in where the show is going, where is the problem?


I was speaking from an industry perspective, lol. Not talking about fans working other fans. There’s nothing wrong with fans trying to learn more. That’s why I’m quizzical of the term, because I don’t think anyone actually really has a problem with that. The elitism I see comes from people who are responding to this make-believe hegemony.

Interesting point about crowds.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> No, I can’t, because it doesn’t exist. You are describing yourself as best I can tell. There’s absolutely no content in what youre


It's been pointed out by MULTIPLE posters on here that the anti-smark term DOES exist.

I'm basically the furthest example away from being an 'anti-smark,' so you're reaching desperately here 😂

Anyway, there's been plenty of content posted on this thread over the past day, but you're just too blind and ignorant to acknowledge the truth.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> It's been pointed out by MULTIPLE posters on here that the anti-smark term DOES exist.
> 
> I'm basically the furthest example of being an 'anti-smark,' so you're reaching desperately here 😂
> 
> Anyway, there's been plenty of content posted on this thread over the past day, but you're just too blind and ignorant to acknowledge the truth.


Two people saying “oh yeah, it’s a thing” doesn’t mean it is, lol. You have as many people saying “wait, that doesn’t really make sense.”

It’s bullshit like workrate, IWC and tweener. An instant stamp that proves someone doesn’t know what they’re talking about. Knocks the “s” off “smark.”


----------



## TKO Wrestling

VIP86 said:


> Anybody who doesn't put garbage indy wannabe wrestlers on TV
> Anybody who can present storylines that are believable and make sense
> Anybody who knows how to focus on the strengths and hide the weaknesses of the wrestlers
> Anybody who knows how to build stars that can keep the audience engaged for years to come
> Anybody who doesn't hire every useless person just because they have friends inside
> Anybody with a strong personality that can control the quality of what wrestlers do on his TV show
> 
> Tony Khan doesn't know how to do any of these things
> because he's not a booker
> he's a spoiled rich looser who wanted to live his childhood dream, with a billionaire father who can afford to spend hundred of millions just to make little Tony happy
> 
> and about who should be pushed or not
> AEW has wrestlers with limitless potentials
> but little TK chooses to put them in comedy acts and stupid storylines for months
> just look at what he did with MJF (one of the best heels today)
> he put him in a freaking musical
> 
> look at how Miro is presented, you can't possibly tell me that this is the right way to present a monster like this
> arguing over video games !!!!!!!
> 
> look at the potential of Jungle Boy, what TK did with him ?
> he teamed him up with a midget (literally)
> and a guy with a dinosaur mask who's Green as grass
> 
> look at what he did with Hangman, to the Dark order he goes
> 
> and a lot more examples


Someone is extremely jealous lol.


----------



## VIP86

TKO Wrestling said:


> Someone is extremely jealous lol.


nope, just someone who's not a member in Tony Khan's ass kissers cult
can you please tell them that i didn't receive my membership card in the mail yet


----------



## The Wood

It’s weird how people assume that other people are envious of rich people. Money comes with its own problems.


----------



## Geert Wilders

The Wood said:


> It’s weird how people assume that other people are envious of rich people. Money comes with its own problems.


The only problems money comes with is the inability to tell who is friend or foe. But I'd rather be rich with a bunch of fake friends than broke as fuck with some genuine friends. If I can snort crack off a hooker's ass, life is good.


----------



## One Shed

Geert Wilders said:


> If I can snort crack off a hooker's ass, life is good.


Probably not long term.


----------



## The Wood

Geert Wilders said:


> The only problems money comes with is the inability to tell who is friend or foe. But I'd rather be rich with a bunch of fake friends than broke as fuck with some genuine friends. If I can snort crack off a hooker's ass, life is good.


Haha, touche. But there is a happy middle-ground. Have genuine friends and enough money for the coke. Just get a lady friend to let you snort it off her.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Two Sheds said:


> Probably not long term.


😂


----------



## VIP86

The Wood said:


> It’s weird how people assume that other people are envious of rich people. Money comes with its own problems.


nah, they're not assuming shit
the fact that someone is shitting on Tony Khan is eating them inside
so they just resort to kindergarten level of arguments out of desperation


----------



## Klitschko

The Wood said:


> It’s weird how people assume that other people are envious of rich people. Money comes with its own problems.


I'm jealous of rich people. Sure, money comes with its own problems, but they are a lot more bearable and easier to deal with.


----------



## DammitChrist

VIP86 said:


> nah, they're not assuming shit
> the fact that someone is shitting on Tony Khan is eating them inside
> so they just resort to kindergarten level of arguments out of desperation


You sound mad here tbh; almost as if it's eating you up inside that the company is doing well and succeeding in spite of your trivial/petty complaints.


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> You sound mad here tbh; almost as if it's eating you up inside that the company is doing well and succeeding in spite of your trivial/petty complaints.


i'm not mad
i'm actually very entertained by the meltdowns of fanboys every time someone say something negative about little Tony
and define "the company is doing well "
maybe it's doing well in the eyes of people who enjoy stupidity
if that's the case, then i'm glad you're enjoying it


----------



## Geert Wilders

VIP86 said:


> i'm not mad
> i'm actually very entertained by the meltdowns of fanboys every time someone say something negative about little Tony
> and define "the company is doing well "
> maybe it's doing well in the eyes of people who enjoy stupidity
> if that's the case, then i'm glad you're enjoying it


The company _is _doing well. It is doing well at keeping a dedicated fan base. 
But it could do better. Nobody should be able to deny this.


----------



## VIP86

Geert Wilders said:


> The company _is _doing well. It is doing well at keeping a dedicated fan base.
> But it could do better. Nobody should be able to deny this.


the argument is about the retarded booking, not the number of fans.
WWE is keeping a bigger dedicated fan base
would you say WWE is doing well in terms of booking ?


----------



## The Wood

Geert Wilders said:


> The company _is _doing well. It is doing well at keeping a dedicated fan base.
> But it could do better. Nobody should be able to deny this.


Well is a relative term. It’s surviving. We don’t really know if they’re running at a deficit or not. Meltzer says they turn a profit, but I’m not sure I trust Meltzer to be honest with that.


----------



## Geert Wilders

The Wood said:


> Well is a relative term. It’s surviving. We don’t really know if they’re running at a deficit or not. Meltzer says they turn a profit, but I’m not sure I trust Meltzer to be honest with that.


Agree with you completely.
I was talking on a “being able to keep a fanbase” sort of success.
and to me a very successful business is one that can not only retain its fanbase, but grow as well, which AEW have not managed to do, so far. But to call the company a failure is inaccurate. Even if they stay niche and stay afloat (allegedly), they are successful in my eyes.




VIP86 said:


> the argument is about the retarded booking, not the number of fans.
> WWE is keeping a bigger dedicated fan base
> would you say WWE is doing well in terms of booking ?


Still too early to say with regards to booking. To rate booking is reliant on the rate of fan loss or growth - AEW did 1.4 million for its first show and just did 1.2million last week - both outliers of course.
If we take the more realistic numbers of 900k from prior covid to 700k now, they’ve retrained about 78%, which is more than WWE have managed to do.
To take absolute numbers for comparisons is just piss poor mathematics and statistics, to be honest.

we must aso take into consideration the increasing number of people who are not subscribed to cable TV. These people look fortheir shows elsewhere - and these people are very difficult to obtain unless you are on Netflix, Prime, Hulu, Apple or any other mainstream streaming service.WWE now have the opportunity for strong growth, being on Peacock. I would not be surprised to see their cable viewership drop even further. Cable numbers are simply inaccurate now.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

VIP86 said:


> Anybody who doesn't put garbage indy wannabe wrestlers on TV
> Anybody who can present storylines that are believable and make sense
> Anybody who knows how to focus on the strengths and hide the weaknesses of the wrestlers
> Anybody who knows how to build stars that can keep the audience engaged for years to come
> Anybody who doesn't hire every useless person just because they have friends inside
> Anybody with a strong personality that can control the quality of what wrestlers do on his TV show
> 
> Tony Khan doesn't know how to do any of these things
> because he's not a booker
> he's a spoiled rich looser who wanted to live his childhood dream, with a billionaire father who can afford to spend hundred of millions just to make little Tony happy
> 
> and about who should be pushed or not
> AEW has wrestlers with limitless potentials
> but little TK chooses to put them in comedy acts and stupid storylines for months
> just look at what he did with MJF (one of the best heels today)
> he put him in a freaking musical
> 
> look at how Miro is presented, you can't possibly tell me that this is the right way to present a monster like this
> arguing over video games !!!!!!!
> 
> look at the potential of Jungle Boy, what TK did with him ?
> he teamed him up with a midget (literally)
> and a guy with a dinosaur mask who's Green as grass
> 
> look at what he did with Hangman, to the Dark order he goes
> 
> and a lot more examples


Everybody is an indy wrestler wannabe at some point, but that's why you have Dark and Elevation along with .The Nightmare Factory and QT and Dustin running training camps and older guys teaching seminars to help train them up.

I'd say most of their feuds and storylines make sense and are believable within the context of those characters, although some (especially the whole "conflicted" Young Bucks heel turn) can lack coherence and proper pacing. What are some storylines you think suck?

As for hiding peoples weaknesses and highlighting their strengths, I think that's one thing that AEW has done better than almost any promotion going today. People that can't talk have a manager, people that are smaller have a heater, people that get over with high flying flippy shit are allowed to put on crazy matches, monsters that need squashes get them, top mic workers get promo time, and almost everybody is connected to others on the show in some way to allow matches to occur somewhat organically. 

As for stars for the future, well that does take time, but they've already made more than a couple who are only going to get better and really breakout when the time is right. 

Who are all these useless people? Because the vast majority of the people they've got serve a purpose even if they're not main-event level talent. 

As for quality control, we don't really know exactly how things work backstage. Tony apparently likes to work collaboratively and is very open to new ideas, but has said himself, part of the learning curve is knowing when to say no and when to nix ideas, it takes time, but in terms of the performances he's getting from his talent it's pretty wild. For a lot of the younger wrestlers this is their big shot and nobody wants to falter so they're trying their absolute hardest to put on the best matches they can and pitch the best ideas they've got. Sometimes things work out great, sometimes not so much. 

---------

"Tony Khan doesn't know how to do any of these things
because he's not a booker
he's a spoiled rich looser who wanted to live his childhood dream, with a billionaire father who can afford to spend hundred of millions just to make little Tony happy."

Well imo, and a lot of other people, he does, because like it or not he is a booker. 

Is he young, with a rich father and learning on the job? Most definitely. Is this just a toy chest for some rich kid? Well the $175 million and ad split revenue he brokered and being arguably the second biggest wrestling promotion in the world, well that points to no. 

MJF is leading his own stable and about to have probably one of the biggest TV events of the year with Blood and Guts against Inner Circle in a couple weeks. He also explained the musical thing (which was thought up by him and Jericho irl) as pandering to Jericho in his promo the other week. MJF is fine. 

Miro and the video game angle was his own idea. He's an alpha-male twitch streamer with an extremely short fuse who rages and smashes shit. Now that the Kip and Penelope angle is wrapping up he's gearing up to go nuts and start wrecking people. Miro is fine.

Jungle Boy was a complete unknown to most people coming into the company, so they put him with a giant who is over with the crowd and does some great hot tags to save JB after heat segments, and a midget to take offense and eat pins that JB could also save from certain death. That's called highlighting peoples strengths and hiding their weaknesses. He's got a big match against Darby for the TNT title next week. Jungle Boy is fine. 

Hangman and Dark Order is the story of a guy who lost his friends and group of guys who lost their leader. Like it or not prior to Brodies death the Dark Order was actually starting to gel and get over with a segment of fans. They'd been wanting Hangman to join for almost half a year and it was the natural move to make. Unfortunately Brodies death hit all of the members of Dark Order really hard and now even with Hangman, they're just kind of twisting in the wind -- a sudden death can do that to people. Hangman is still over however, and he's currently top ranked and is probably on course for a match against Omega at Double or Nothing. He's fine. 

-----------

Sorry for the essay, but there was a lot in there to actually break down. 

Would still like an answer on an actual person to book the show, not just "anybody." Who is this perfect person to come in and save this apparently foundering promotion.


----------



## VIP86

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Everybody is an indy wrestler wannabe at some point, but that's why you have Dark and Elevation along with .The Nightmare Factory and QT and Dustin running training camps and older guys teaching seminars to help train them up.
> 
> I'd say most of their feuds and storylines make sense and are believable within the context of those characters, although some (especially the whole "conflicted" Young Bucks heel turn) can lack coherence and proper pacing. What are some storylines you think suck?
> 
> As for hiding peoples weaknesses and highlighting their strengths, I think that's one thing that AEW has done better than almost any promotion going today. People that can't talk have a manager, people that are smaller have a heater, people that get over with high flying flippy shit are allowed to put on crazy matches, monsters that need squashes get them, top mic workers get promo time, and almost everybody is connected to others on the show in some way to allow matches to occur somewhat organically.
> 
> As for stars for the future, well that does take time, but they've already made more than a couple who are only going to get better and really breakout when the time is right.
> 
> Who are all these useless people? Because the vast majority of the people they've got serve a purpose even if they're not main-event level talent.
> 
> As for quality control, we don't really know exactly how things work backstage. Tony apparently likes to work collaboratively and is very open to new ideas, but has said himself, part of the learning curve is knowing when to say no and when to nix ideas, it takes time, but in terms of the performances he's getting from his talent it's pretty wild. For a lot of the younger wrestlers this is their big shot and nobody wants to falter so they're trying their absolute hardest to put on the best matches they can and pitch the best ideas they've got. Sometimes things work out great, sometimes not so much.
> 
> ---------
> 
> "Tony Khan doesn't know how to do any of these things
> because he's not a booker
> he's a spoiled rich looser who wanted to live his childhood dream, with a billionaire father who can afford to spend hundred of millions just to make little Tony happy."
> 
> Well imo, and a lot of other people, he does, because like it or not he is a booker.
> 
> Is he young, with a rich father and learning on the job? Most definitely. Is this just a toy chest for some rich kid? Well the $175 million and ad split revenue he brokered and being arguably the second biggest wrestling promotion in the world, well that points to no.
> 
> MJF is leading his own stable and about to have probably one of the biggest TV events of the year with Blood and Guts against Inner Circle in a couple weeks. He also explained the musical thing (which was thought up by him and Jericho irl) as pandering to Jericho in his promo the other week. MJF is fine.
> 
> Miro and the video game angle was his own idea. He's an alpha-male twitch streamer with an extremely short fuse who rages and smashes shit. Now that the Kip and Penelope angle is wrapping up he's gearing up to go nuts and start wrecking people. Miro is fine.
> 
> Jungle Boy was a complete unknown to most people coming into the company, so they put him with a giant who is over with the crowd and does some great hot tags to save JB after heat segments, and a midget to take offense and eat pins that JB could also save from certain death. That's called highlighting peoples strengths and hiding their weaknesses. He's got a big match against Darby for the TNT title next week. Jungle Boy is fine.
> 
> Hangman and Dark Order is the story of a guy who lost his friends and group of guys who lost their leader. Like it or not prior to Brodies death the Dark Order was actually starting to gel and get over with a segment of fans. They'd been wanting Hangman to join for almost half a year and it was the natural move to make. Unfortunately Brodies death hit all of the members of Dark Order really hard and now even with Hangman, they're just kind of twisting in the wind -- a sudden death can do that to people. Hangman is still over however, and he's currently top ranked and is probably on course for a match against Omega at Double or Nothing. He's fine.
> 
> -----------
> 
> Sorry for the essay, but there was a lot in there to actually break down.
> 
> Would still like an answer on an actual person to book the show, not just "anybody." Who is this perfect person to come in and save this apparently foundering promotion.


so in other words, AEW is nearly flawless ?

if Tony Khan put half the work you did defending him into writing a better show
we wouldn't have this conversation
if you enjoy his product, good for you
but for me, it's a disgrace to call Tony Khan a booker
after all the stupidity he presented on TV

and again, i don't care who they hire as a booker as long as he presented us with something that actually makes sense


Geert Wilders said:


> Still too early to say with regards to booking. To rate booking is reliant on the rate of fan loss or growth - AEW did 1.4 million for its first show and just did 1.2million last week - both outliers of course.
> If we take the more realistic numbers of 900k from prior covid to 700k now, they’ve retrained about 78%, which is more than WWE have managed to do.
> To take absolute numbers for comparisons is just piss poor mathematics and statistics, to be honest.
> 
> we must aso take into consideration the increasing number of people who are not subscribed to cable TV. These people look fortheir shows elsewhere - and these people are very difficult to obtain unless you are on Netflix, Prime, Hulu, Apple or any other mainstream streaming service.WWE now have the opportunity for strong growth, being on Peacock. I would not be surprised to see their cable viewership drop even further. Cable numbers are simply inaccurate now.


you're arguing numbers
i'm arguing stupid retarded booking


----------



## DaSlacker

The Wood said:


> Well is a relative term. It’s surviving. We don’t really know if they’re running at a deficit or not. Meltzer says they turn a profit, but I’m not sure I trust Meltzer to be honest with that.


I don't buy it, it takes a start up a few years to turn a profit on average. AEW definitely has high costs.

Nevertheless, it's no doubt a conservative gamble on a future rights fee bonanza. The 45 million per year figure was a good omen for the Khans. As is NXT being renewed for several years and talk of WWE increasing on their 2018 numbers, when they successfully split content across platforms.

The media world sure has changed in the last 10 years. Comcast buying NBC, AT&T buying Time Warner, Viacom and CBS merging. The streaming service wars. Franchises and reboots becoming even more prevalent. Insane levels of money thrown at sports leagues and 'hip' start ups - the money talked about currently is staggering. 

No coincidence they keep signing household names like Sting and Paul Wight. And flooding social media with content. Hoarding talent and creating working agreements with other companies. Creating all these televised mini PPVs (Winter is Coming, Fyter Fest, Crossroads). Tony definitely smells a 90 million dollars per year deal.


----------



## The Wood

As to who could book AEW: From inside the company, you’ve got JR, Chris Jericho (a serious one), Arn Anderson, Tully Blanchard, an allegedly sober Jake, Dustin, etc. There are plenty of guys there that could do it. From outside the company, you could have struck up a deal with Jim Cornette, who knows how to book a company without dropping off viewers with offensive shit. You’ve also got CM Punk out there. It would be interesting to see if he got the book.

If I were running a wrestling promotion, I’d do my absolute best to get JR, Jim Cornette and Dutch Mantell as consultants. I’d probably try to open conversations with Gedo about whether he feels he could book a US-based promotion, or who he would recommend for that job.


----------



## yeahright2

The Wood said:


> As to who could book AEW: From inside the company, you’ve got JR, Chris Jericho (a serious one), Arn Anderson, Tully Blanchard, an allegedly sober Jake, Dustin, etc. There are plenty of guys there that could do it. From outside the company, you could have struck up a deal with Jim Cornette, who knows how to book a company without dropping off viewers with offensive shit. You’ve also got CM Punk out there. It would be interesting to see if he got the book.
> 
> If I were running a wrestling promotion, I’d do my absolute best to get JR, Jim Cornette and Dutch Mantell as consultants. I’d probably try to open conversations with Gedo about whether he feels he could book a US-based promotion, or who he would recommend for that job.


Being a booker isn´t easy. Those names you mention in AEW already hasn´t booked a promotion, so we don´t know if they could do it. -Jericho can get himself over, but there´s a long way from booking one´s own storylines to booking an entire promotion. And as far as I remember, the only one of them who actually have any experience with booking is Jake who had a very short stint in WWF as member of the booking committee. Dustin would have heard stories across the table as a kid, but did he actually learn from it? Even if these veterans know how to book, doing it in a company like AEW where everyone does what they want and have no respect for the veterans (remember Brandon Cutlers response to JR about the dives?), booking becomes 10X harder. A good booker and some basic ground rules should have been laid out from the start, and I think it may be too late to change now.
And Punk? No. Just.. No. No experience at all as a booker, and he left WWE because he didn´t get what he wanted.. What if someone didn´t like his ideas -would he quit again?

Edit; But you´re 100% right about trying to get Cornette, Mantell and JR as consultants.


----------



## The Wood

yeahright2 said:


> Being a booker isn´t easy. Those names you mention in AEW already hasn´t booked a promotion, so we don´t know if they could do it. -Jericho can get himself over, but there´s a long way from booking one´s own storylines to booking an entire promotion. And as far as I remember, the only one of them who actually have any experience with booking is Jake who had a very short stint in WWF as member of the booking committee. Dustin would have heard stories across the table as a kid, but did he actually learn from it? Even if these veterans know how to book, doing it in a company like AEW where everyone does what they want and have no respect for the veterans (remember Brandon Cutlers response to JR about the dives?), booking becomes 10X harder. A good booker and some basic ground rules should have been laid out from the start, and I think it may be too late to change now.
> And Punk? No. Just.. No. No experience at all as a booker, and he left WWE because he didn´t get what he wanted.. What if someone didn´t like his ideas -would he quit again?


JR has booked too. And you’re right on the surface of it. But you never know unless you give them a shot. And they’d all be way better than Tony Khan, who also has never booked before. The idea would be to get a guy like JR to maybe mentor a guy like Jericho or Dustin, in theory. Groom them for it. Start them off as assistants and see if they’ve got the chops for it.

Punk doesn’t have experience, but he’s a smart guy with good instincts and has put together some great programs. If he were the booker, his ideas would be lore, lol. If you don’t like the job he does, then yeah — it makes sense to move him out of the position.

Don’t disagree with your points wholesale, you’re right with what you’re saying and the potential pitfalls, but those would be things you brace for.


----------



## yeahright2

The Wood said:


> JR has booked too. And you’re right on the surface of it. But you never know unless you give them a shot. And they’d all be way better than Tony Khan, who also has never booked before. The idea would be to get a guy like JR to maybe mentor a guy like Jericho or Dustin, in theory. Groom them for it. Start them off as assistants and see if they’ve got the chops for it.
> 
> Punk doesn’t have experience, but he’s a smart guy with good instincts and has put together some great programs. If he were the booker, his ideas would be lore, lol. If you don’t like the job he does, then yeah — it makes sense to move him out of the position.
> 
> Don’t disagree with your points wholesale, you’re right with what you’re saying and the potential pitfalls, but those would be things you brace for.


JR booked? When? I remember him in WCW as being on the announcers team, and maybe sit in on some of the booking meetings, but never as the guy with the book


----------



## The Wood

yeahright2 said:


> JR booked? When? I remember him in WCW as being on the announcers team, and maybe sit in on some of the booking meetings, but never as the guy with the book


I’m sure he was part of their booking committee at some point. He also booked the house shows in the WWF for a while there.


----------



## Klitschko

Feeling so much built up sexual tension in this thread............nah just messing. I'm loving this argument. Keep it up guys.


----------



## Y2K23

VIP86 said:


> Anybody who doesn't put garbage indy wannabe wrestlers on TV
> Anybody who can present storylines that are believable and make sense
> Anybody who knows how to focus on the strengths and hide the weaknesses of the wrestlers
> Anybody who knows how to build stars that can keep the audience engaged for years to come
> Anybody who doesn't hire every useless person just because they have friends inside
> Anybody with a strong personality that can control the quality of what wrestlers do on his TV show
> 
> Tony Khan doesn't know how to do any of these things
> because he's not a booker
> he's a spoiled rich looser who wanted to live his childhood dream, with a billionaire father who can afford to spend hundred of millions just to make little Tony happy
> 
> and about who should be pushed or not
> AEW has wrestlers with limitless potentials
> but little TK chooses to put them in comedy acts and stupid storylines for months
> just look at what he did with MJF (one of the best heels today)
> he put him in a freaking musical
> 
> look at how Miro is presented, you can't possibly tell me that this is the right way to present a monster like this
> arguing over video games !!!!!!!
> 
> look at the potential of Jungle Boy, what TK did with him ?
> he teamed him up with a midget (literally)
> and a guy with a dinosaur mask who's Green as grass
> 
> look at what he did with Hangman, to the Dark order he goes
> 
> and a lot more examples


While you keep getting fatter and eating non stop at your basement, Tony Khan continues to put on weekly quality content while we all enjoy it. The only one taking L's left and right here is you mate. Cheers.


----------



## VIP86

Y2K23 said:


> While you keep getting fatter and eating non stop at your basement, Tony Khan continues to put on weekly quality content while we all enjoy it. The only one taking L's left and right here is you mate. Cheers.


oh look, it's the very original fanboys basement insult
where did i hear this before  oh right, from every triggered fanboy ever 
you need to do better than that to actually upset me
thanks for proving my point with your attempt at this bitty insult, Kindergartner
i always can count on fanboys intelligence to prove a point


----------



## VIP86

Klitschko said:


> Feeling so much built up sexual tension in this thread............nah just messing. I'm loving this argument. Keep it up guys.
> 
> View attachment 100100


glad you're enjoying it (i'm not joking by the way)
just wait and see all the usual suspects having meltdowns
shitting on Tony Khan is just too much for their feelings to handle


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

VIP86 said:


> so in other words, AEW is nearly flawless ?
> 
> if Tony Khan put half the work you did defending him into writing a better show
> we wouldn't have this conversation
> if you enjoy his product, good for you
> but for me, it's a disgrace to call Tony Khan a booker
> after all the stupidity he presented on TV
> 
> and again, i don't care who they hire as a booker as long as he presented us with something that actually makes sense
> 
> you're arguing numbers
> i'm arguing stupid retarded booking


Never said they're flawless, no wrestling promotion ever has been, I just think they're doing the best "anybody" could and are clearly planning for the future. 

I've asked you a couple times now what you think would be better, who would work well as the head booker and all you've got to say is, AEW sucks! Tony Khan is a "looser." 

Cool bro. Good talk. /s


----------



## VIP86

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> they're doing the best "anybody" could


not even close
stupidity is not the best "anybody" could


BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> I've asked you a couple times now what you think would be better, who would work well as the head booker and all you've got to say is, AEW sucks! Tony Khan is a "looser."


that's because i don't have a special request for a specific person to be the booker
is it too much to ask for anyone who knows what he's doing ?


BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Tony Khan is a "looser."


because he is
that's a 100% proven fact
Fulham F.C. = failure
jacksonville jaguars = an even bigger failure
All Elite Wrestling = stupidest booking decisions

the only thing he succeeded in doing
is creating a cult that is very dedicated to kissing his ass


----------



## Geert Wilders

VIP86 said:


> so in other words, AEW is nearly flawless ?
> 
> if Tony Khan put half the work you did defending him into writing a better show
> we wouldn't have this conversation
> if you enjoy his product, good for you
> but for me, it's a disgrace to call Tony Khan a booker
> after all the stupidity he presented on TV
> 
> and again, i don't care who they hire as a booker as long as he presented us with something that actually makes sense
> 
> you're arguing numbers
> i'm arguing stupid retarded booking


Again, arguing booking is subjective. The most objective measure of booking is their ability to retain and gain fans. Their retention rate is good; their ability to gain is nonexistent.
Therefore you cannot call their booking “stupid and retarded” no matter how you feel about it. It’s your opinion and you cannot force it on others. I agree the booking is dumb, but I am not forcing my opinion on others.


----------



## VIP86

Geert Wilders said:


> Again, arguing booking is subjective. The most objective measure of booking is their ability to retain and gain fans. Their retention rate is good; their ability to gain is nonexistent.
> Therefore you cannot call their booking “stupid and retarded” no matter how you feel about it. It’s your opinion and you cannot force it on others. I agree the booking is dumb, but I am not forcing my opinion on others.


the amount of contradictions in this post is amazing

you say "arguing booking is subjective"
but then you say "you cannot call their booking stupid and retarded"

you say "The most objective measure of booking is their ability to retain and gain fans"
but then you say "I agree the booking is dumb"

you say "I am not forcing my opinion on others"
but you want to force the idea that their booking is good on me


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

The Wood said:


> As to who could book AEW: From inside the company, you’ve got JR, Chris Jericho (a serious one), Arn Anderson, Tully Blanchard, an allegedly sober Jake, Dustin, etc. There are plenty of guys there that could do it. From outside the company, you could have struck up a deal with Jim Cornette, who knows how to book a company without dropping off viewers with offensive shit. You’ve also got CM Punk out there. It would be interesting to see if he got the book.
> 
> If I were running a wrestling promotion, I’d do my absolute best to get JR, Jim Cornette and Dutch Mantell as consultants. I’d probably try to open conversations with Gedo about whether he feels he could book a US-based promotion, or who he would recommend for that job.


I think a lot of those guys are working as agents/producers or consultants for individual matches already; They're trying to work on how to format the actual in-ring work in order to get the best work and the best reactions from what has been booked to occur. 

JR was best as the head of talent relations and having a good eye for what to do with young guys with star potential, I'm sure he's already spoken many times on behalf of guys like Hangman, Jungle "Jack Perry" and I think he might have even warmed to a kind of odd fellow in Darby. 

Not really sure if Dutch is coming back to the game at this point or where he would fit in, or if even would want to. 

As for Cornette.. the dude certainly has a knack for the wrestling business, but I think he hates AEW so much he wouldn't be able to hold his tongue long enough to generate much of anything, that's if anybody would even let him in the door. 

CM Punk. The dude isn't a booker, especially not at this point -- he's a hired gun and was only ever really about what was best for him. It would be like giving the book to Brock Lesnar (woops) It'd certainly be interesting, but in the car crash sort of sense.


----------



## Geert Wilders

VIP86 said:


> the amount of contradictions in this post is amazing
> 
> you say "arguing booking is subjective"
> but then you say "you cannot call their booking stupid and retarded"
> 
> you say "The most objective measure of booking is their ability to retain and gain fans"
> but then you say "I agree the booking is dumb"
> 
> you say "I am not forcing my opinion on others"
> but you want to force the idea that their booking is good on me


I do not want them to force their ideas on you. The booking IS atrocious in my opinion. But that’s what it is. An opinion.

at the end of the day, we can say What we want. Until they start losing barrels of fans like WCW and TNA (which might I add could happen at anytime), we should all learn to be able to agree to disagree, rather than try and force our opinions on others.


----------



## VIP86

Geert Wilders said:


> I do not want them to force their ideas on you. The booking IS atrocious in my opinion. But that’s what it is. An opinion.


Exactly
and my opinions about Tony Khan are my own


Geert Wilders said:


> we should all learn to be able to agree to disagree, rather than try and force our opinions on others.


again i agree
but this should be directed at fanboys who letterly start having mental breakdowns every time anyone says anything negative about Tony Khan

i don't care if someone likes TK or thinks he's the best booker ever
but i do care when they start using kindergarten arguments and insults against anybody with a different opinion about his stupidity


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lol - on Reddit wwe is targeting AEW community users with notification community ads

i’m suddenly getting all these WWE notifications

its smart of course, I do the same thing to my competitors - i just find it interesting that they see AEWs marketshare important enough to target


----------



## DammitChrist

VIP86 said:


> Exactly
> and my opinions about Tony Khan are my own
> 
> again i agree
> but this should be directed at fanboys who letterly start having mental breakdowns every time anyone says anything negative about Tony Khan
> 
> i don't care if someone likes TK or thinks he's the best booker ever
> but i do care when they start using kindergarten arguments and insults against anybody with a different opinion about his stupidity


If anything, the passionate fans should continue shoving the truth down your throat since your opinions about them and Tony Khan are consistently wrong tbh.


----------



## The Wood

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> I think a lot of those guys are working as agents/producers or consultants for individual matches already; They're trying to work on how to format the actual in-ring work in order to get the best work and the best reactions from what has been booked to occur.
> 
> JR was best as the head of talent relations and having a good eye for what to do with young guys with star potential, I'm sure he's already spoken many times on behalf of guys like Hangman, Jungle "Jack Perry" and I think he might have even warmed to a kind of odd fellow in Darby.
> 
> Not really sure if Dutch is coming back to the game at this point or where he would fit in, or if even would want to.
> 
> As for Cornette.. the dude certainly has a knack for the wrestling business, but I think he hates AEW so much he wouldn't be able to hold his tongue long enough to generate much of anything, that's if anybody would even let him in the door.
> 
> CM Punk. The dude isn't a booker, especially not at this point -- he's a hired gun and was only ever really about what was best for him. It would be like giving the book to Brock Lesnar (woops) It'd certainly be interesting, but in the car crash sort of sense.


They’d all be better than Tony Khan is the point. Would CM Punk be all about himself as a booker? We don’t know. Not really.

Brock Lesnar reportedly had a hand in booking the 2020 Royal Rumble, and that was the best booked Rumble ever.


----------



## Geert Wilders

The Wood said:


> They’d all be better than Tony Khan is the point. Would CM Punk be all about himself as a booker? We don’t know. Not really.
> 
> Brock Lesnar reportedly had a hand in booking the 2020 Royal Rumble, and that was the best booked Rumble ever.


That would be 2001, but not the point


----------



## yeahright2

The Wood said:


> They’d all be better than Tony Khan is the point. Would CM Punk be all about himself as a booker? We don’t know. Not really.
> 
> Brock Lesnar reportedly had a hand in booking the 2020 Royal Rumble, and that was the best booked Rumble ever.


Lesnar had a hand in the Rumble as far as the part he was involved in. It was almost like 2 separate Rumbles.
And he booked himself incredibly strong in that event, tying Strowman for the most eliminations ever..

A booker should never be an active wrestler IMO, the wrestling history is filled with people who booked themselves to look strong at the cost of other deserving talent.


----------



## CovidFan

yeahright2 said:


> Lesnar had a hand in the Rumble as far as the part he was involved in.


Citation needed. I can believe Paul H. had a hand in it but I doubt Brock cares enough to. Either way, it's not like Brock's character wouldn't be booked that strong.


----------



## yeahright2

CovidFan said:


> Citation needed. I can believe Paul H. had a hand in it but I doubt Brock cares enough to. Either way, it's not like Brock's character wouldn't be booked that strong.


I shouldn´t be doing your job for you. You can either believe me, or not. It´s a Meltzer 'Report', but some people in the AEW section takes his word as gospel, so for good measure.
Backstage News On Who Produced The WWE Royal Rumble Matches, Brock Lesnar Reportedly Had Input - Wrestling Inc.


----------



## The Wood

Geert Wilders said:


> That would be 2001, but not the point


Hey, don’t get me wrong, that’s a fine one. Probably close second. 



yeahright2 said:


> Lesnar had a hand in the Rumble as far as the part he was involved in. It was almost like 2 separate Rumbles.
> And he booked himself incredibly strong in that event, tying Strowman for the most eliminations ever..
> 
> A booker should never be an active wrestler IMO, the wrestling history is filled with people who booked themselves to look strong at the cost of other deserving talent.


Brock’s job was to get himself over, because the plan was to set up him vs. Drew at Mania. I see the point, and don’t disagree that booking whilst simultaneously being active can potentially be a problem, but in this case, that was actually the job and the right call.


----------



## yeahright2

The Wood said:


> Hey, don’t get me wrong, that’s a fine one. Probably close second.
> 
> 
> 
> Brock’s job was to get himself over, because the plan was to set up him vs. Drew at Mania. I see the point, and don’t disagree that booking whilst simultaneously being active can potentially be a problem, but in this case, that was actually the job and the right call.


Yeah, but did he really need to tie Strowman at 13 eliminations? Did he look more strong because of that one extra elimination? Not in my opinion. Disregarding the fact that neither of them should´ve topped Kane, It was the only thing Strowman has to brag about.


----------



## The Wood

yeahright2 said:


> Yeah, but did he really need to tie Strowman at 13 eliminations? Did he look more strong because of that one extra elimination? Not in my opinion. Disregarding the fact that neither of them should´ve topped Kane, It was the only thing Strowman has to brag about.


Eh, fuck Braun Strowman, honestly. Did Brock need to? No. Does it really matter? Not really. I’m not going to lose sleep about it.


----------



## Geert Wilders

yeahright2 said:


> Yeah, but did he really need to tie Strowman at 13 eliminations? Did he look more strong because of that one extra elimination? Not in my opinion. Disregarding the fact that neither of them should´ve topped Kane, It was the only thing Strowman has to brag about.


From what we know about Brock, he has a fantastic mind for business. I agree with Wood; his royal rumble booking was top notch.


----------



## yeahright2

Geert Wilders said:


> From what we know about Brock, he has a fantastic mind for business. I agree with Wood; his royal rumble booking was top notch.


The booking of his part of the Rumble wasn´t bad except for that one elimination he didn´t need. Brock knows his character better than anyone (with possibly Paul Heyman as the exception), and he doesn´t do something that´s not him -Like I also mentioned when I discussed Moxley vs. Lesnar 
The Rumble as one match though was badly booked. Like I said, it was like it was 2 different matches in one, it would have been better if it just felt like one match, but once Lesnar was gone, you could clearly tell someone else took over the booking.. Well, technically it ISN`T booking, but producing.. whatever.


----------



## 3venflow

Here's Warner Media's press release of the latest rating. Note the mention of key demo and also how it is listed first. Some here have dismissed its importance, but it is very important.


----------



## RapShepard

The Wood said:


> Sorry Rap, I haven’t replied to your post yet because I want to give it time. I’m not ignoring you, friend.
> 
> 
> 
> .


Fair enough


----------



## 3venflow

Below is a chart showing how fewer people are watching live TV now. This is important to consider when judging ratings and should put things into context more when people compared today to yesteryear.

For example, one of AEW's main demos, the 18-49, was watching more than _twice_ as much live TV in 2014 than they are now. Only over-65s watch live TV at a similar level than they used to. Younger people are obvious leaning to streaming and DVR.

Basically, if AEW was in 2014 now, you could expect their ratings to be significantly better even if they were offering exactly the same thing. Ditto WWE, whose ratings have fallen every year.


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> If anything, the passionate fans should continue shoving the truth down your throat since your opinions about them and Tony Khan are consistently wrong tbh.


using your logic here
i should continue shoving the truth down the throats of fanboys like you
two can play the same game
you want to continue commenting on my personal opinions about little Tony
i will continue pointing out the stupidity and ass kissing in yours
it's only fair right?

oh and also 
the passionate fans = triggered fanboys


----------



## DammitChrist

VIP86 said:


> using your logic here
> i should continue shoving the truth down the throats of fanboys like you
> two can play the same game
> you want to continue commenting on my personal opinions about little Tony
> i will continue pointing out the stupidity and ass kissing in yours
> it's only fair right?
> 
> oh and also
> *the passionate fans = triggered fanboys*


I don't see any correlation there tbh.

You're pretty much comparing two entirely different groups here, dude.


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> I don't see any correlation there tbh.
> 
> You're pretty much comparing two entirely different groups here, dude.


nope, not different at all
if you think about it, you and me are exactly the same
you're passionate about a certain product (AEW in this case) to the point of defending it
and i'm passionate about PRO wrestling (that makes sense) to the point of defending it
and since AEW is a PRO wrestling company
here comes the clash between your idea of pro wrestling
and my idea of pro wrestling

i don't care how you personally like your pro wrestling to be presented
but when you try undermining people opinions just to defend a rich spoiled loser
here comes the problem


----------



## The Wood

3venflow said:


> Below is a chart showing how fewer people are watching live TV now. This is important to consider when judging ratings and should put things into context more when people compared today to yesteryear.
> 
> For example, one of AEW's main demos, the 18-49, was watching more than _twice_ as much live TV in 2014 than they are now. Only over-65s watch live TV at a similar level than they used to. Younger people are obvious leaning to streaming and DVR.
> 
> Basically, if AEW was in 2014 now, you could expect their ratings to be significantly better even if they were offering exactly the same thing. Ditto WWE, whose ratings have fallen every year.
> 
> 
> View attachment 100119


There have always been a few issues with this line of thinking. Firstly, it’s the assumption that TV habits dropping off aren’t reflective of the engagement level of those people. The idea that good cable wouldn’t find an audience is defeatist and kind of gaudy.

It’s also kind of irrelevant. We’re not in 2014, and this is the medium AEW _chose_ to carry their show. I’m not going to feel sorry for them and upgrade them retroactively to 1.8 million bored viewers or whatever.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

3venflow said:


> Below is a chart showing how fewer people are watching live TV now. This is important to consider when judging ratings and should put things into context more when people compared today to yesteryear.
> 
> For example, one of AEW's main demos, the 18-49, was watching more than _twice_ as much live TV in 2014 than they are now. Only over-65s watch live TV at a similar level than they used to. Younger people are obvious leaning to streaming and DVR.
> 
> Basically, if AEW was in 2014 now, you could expect their ratings to be significantly better even if they were offering exactly the same thing. Ditto WWE, whose ratings have fallen every year.
> 
> 
> View attachment 100119


Seems like merely maintaining cable viewership is a positive result these days.


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> Seems like merely maintaining cable viewership is a positive result these days.


Not if it’s 700k viewers.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> Not if it’s 700k viewers.


How so?


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> How so?


Because that number is way below what it could be. Stabilising a bad number isn’t inherently good, lol.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> Because that number is way below what it could be. Stabilising a bad number isn’t inherently good, lol.


That's all subjective conjecture though. What are you basing your claim that maintaining specifically 700k is bad, upon? 

Two asides 1) it was rumoured that TNT would be happy with 500k 2) last week they did 1.2m


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> That's all subjective conjecture though. What are you basing your claim that maintaining specifically 700k is bad, upon?
> 
> Two asides 1) it was rumoured that TNT would be happy with 500k 2) last week they did 1.2m


1) That was absolute bullshit spread by Meltzer.

2) That’s an outlier. They started on 1.4 million and worked their way back to 700k. They’re likely to do so again.

Wrestling used to be the most watched thing on cable. Is that number going to go down as people cut cable? Probably. But a lot of shows do as well or better than AEW in terms of viewership. In terms of actual viewership, AEW was surpassed by 16 shows on Showbuzz’s bullshit Top 50 list.

AEW doesn’t do as good as wrestling can do.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> 1) That was absolute bullshit spread by Meltzer.
> 
> 2) That’s an outlier. They started on 1.4 million and worked their way back to 700k. They’re likely to do so again.
> 
> Wrestling used to be the most watched thing on cable. Is that number going to go down as people cut cable? Probably. But a lot of shows do as well or better than AEW in terms of viewership. In terms of actual viewership, AEW was surpassed by 16 shows on Showbuzz’s bullshit Top 50 list.
> 
> AEW doesn’t do as good as wrestling can do.


Lots of words but nothing to support your claim about the 700k being bad for Dynamite. Just further conjecture. 

Also, it's pretty bold to call 1.2m an outlier without seeing the following week's rating. I predict a drop but not back to 700k.


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> Lots of words but nothing to support your claim about the 700k being bad for Dynamite. Just further conjecture.
> 
> Also, it's pretty bold to call 1.2m an outlier without seeing the following week's rating. I predict a drop but not back to 700k.


You can point to the average viewership number TNT does and use that as a gauge. AEW doesn’t bound right over that benchmark. That’s not really conjecture.

I don’t think they’ll go back to 700k instantly. But this idea that they’re growing or whatever just isn’t accurate.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> You can point to the average viewership number TNT does and use that as a gauge. AEW doesn’t bound right over that benchmark. That’s not really conjecture.
> 
> I don’t think they’ll go back to 700k instantly. But this idea that they’re growing or whatever just isn’t accurate.


Idk the TNT average. Nor do I know how much they pay for those shows respectively. Nor do I know if they have a preference for live tv, what implications are for advertising etc. I'm still no clearer how maintaining 700k is necessarily a bad thing for AEW. But it's no big deal - the initial point was a simple one about cable dying as a whole and so maintaining can be seen as a positive. You only have to look at WWE's numbers tumbling year on year to see that.

I don't remember anyone mentioning growth in this conversation to be honest. This week's figures will be interesting though.


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> Idk the TNT average. Nor do I know how much they pay for those shows respectively. Nor do I know if they have a preference for live tv, what implications are for advertising etc. I'm still no clearer how maintaining 700k is necessarily a bad thing for AEW. But it's no big deal - the initial point was a simple one about cable dying as a whole and so maintaining can be seen as a positive. You only have to look at WWE's numbers tumbling year on year to see that.
> 
> I don't remember anyone mentioning growth in this conversation to be honest. This week's figures will be interesting though.


But the retort to that is simply that retaining a small audience isn’t necessarily good. You’ve got to have that locked pool of people be sizeable. It isn’t cogent to state “Well, they’re retaining viewers, so that’s good.”


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> But the retort to that is simply that retaining a small audience isn’t necessarily good. You’ve got to have that locked pool of people be sizeable. It isn’t cogent to state “Well, they’re retaining viewers, so that’s good.”


Not 'necessarily' no because we don't sit in on meetings between TNT and AEW. But calling the audience small is subjective and as far as I can see, a baseless statement. Only TNT know what they're happy with - not you or I - but they've greenlit two further shows which implies that at the very least they see mileage in further developing their relationship, based on the current stats (and this was agreed before the recent bump to 1.2m).

Going back to the initial point - if AEW maintain a steady audience whilst cable numbers keep tumbling across the board (including that of their main rival) it stands to reason that their stock will reflect that when it comes to re-negotiating future deals. It could even affect WWE's next deal which could even out the playing field somewhat. But there's a long way to go so we'll have to wait and see.


----------



## Prosper

Extra little demo tidbits regarding last weeks rating.

*[WON] The peak rating for Dynamite on Wednesday was the end of the Chris Jericho vs. Dax Harwood match at 1.43 million viewers and 629,000 in 18-49. The Young Bucks match peaked at 600,000 in 18-49, and the Kris Statlander vs. Amber Nova and Darby Allin vs. Matt Hardy matches both peaked at 626,000. *


----------



## RapShepard

The Wood said:


> There have always been a few issues with this line of thinking. Firstly, it’s the assumption that TV habits dropping off aren’t reflective of the engagement level of those people. The idea that good cable wouldn’t find an audience is defeatist and kind of gaudy.
> 
> It’s also kind of irrelevant. We’re not in 2014, and this is the medium AEW _chose_ to carry their show. I’m not going to feel sorry for them and upgrade them retroactively to 1.8 million bored viewers or whatever.


This is why I asked you to give a reasonable average AEW should be getting. You've just been given the data that outside of 50+ people are watching TV half as much at BEST. So with that information why do you refuse to update your opinion on what's good to a reasonable number today? It's clear as day they chose cable because cable companies are giving out fuck you money for these types of ratings. 

Now you can certainly knock them for how they fail to entertain you. But it's a weird hill to die on saying they're doing bad ratings wise when they consistently are in the top 10 most Wednesday nights. Could they do better sure as could pretty much anything. But it comes off like you just want to give them no credit at all and are holding them to this highly unlikely golden rating you know they won't get. It's like down playing an All Star player for not being MVP candidate level.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

RapShepard said:


> This is why I asked you to give a reasonable average AEW should be getting. You've just been given the data that outside of 50+ people are watching TV half as much at BEST. So with that information why do you refuse to update your opinion on what's good to a reasonable number today? It's clear as day they chose cable because cable companies are giving out fuck you money for these types of ratings.
> 
> Now you can certainly knock them for how they fail to entertain you. But it's a weird hill to die on saying they're doing bad ratings wise when they consistently are in the top 10 most Wednesday nights. Could they do better sure as could pretty much anything. But it comes off like you just want to give them no credit at all and are holding them to this highly unlikely golden rating you know they won't get. It's like down playing an All Star player for not being MVP candidate level.


That's a very good question. I guess the most relevant starting point would be to look at TNA's numbers when they were doing well then factor in the general decline in cable viewers since then? Or the decline in cable viewing wrestling fans, specifically. 

I don't know what those figures are but it's the most obvious comparison or method that comes to mind.


----------



## 3venflow

Here's TNA's average ratings from each year until the AXS era (they average in the low 100k now). It puts into perspective how impressive it is for AEW to hit 1.2m in 2021 imo considering how much higher ratings were in general back then.

FSN (Fri. 3pm) - 2004 - 0.2
FSN (Fri. 4pm) - 2005 - 0.3
Spike (Sat. 11pm) - 2005–2006 - 0.7
Spike (Thu. 11pm) - 2006 - 0.9
Spike (Thu. 9pm) - 2006–2007 - 1.0
Spike (Thu. 9pm; 2hrs) - 2007–2010 - 1.2
Spike (Mon. 9pm; 2hrs) - 2010 - 0.7
Spike (Mon. 8pm; 2hrs) - 2010 - 0.9
Spike (Thu 9pm; 2hrs) - 2010–2012 - 1.1
Spike (Thu 8pm: 2hrs) - 2012–2013 - 1.0
Spike (Thu 9pm: 2hrs) - 2013–2014 - 1.0
Spike (Wed 9pm: 2hrs) - 2014 - 0.8
Destination America (Fri 9pm: 2hrs) - 2015 - 390,000
Destination America (Wed 9pm: 2hrs) - 2015 - 292,000
Pop (Tues 9pm: 2hrs) - 2016 - 332,000
Pop (Thu 8pm: 2hrs) - 2016–2018 - 300,000


----------



## The Wood

RapShepard said:


> This is why I asked you to give a reasonable average AEW should be getting. You've just been given the data that outside of 50+ people are watching TV half as much at BEST. So with that information why do you refuse to update your opinion on what's good to a reasonable number today? It's clear as day they chose cable because cable companies are giving out fuck you money for these types of ratings.
> 
> Now you can certainly knock them for how they fail to entertain you. But it's a weird hill to die on saying they're doing bad ratings wise when they consistently are in the top 10 most Wednesday nights. Could they do better sure as could pretty much anything. But it comes off like you just want to give them no credit at all and are holding them to this highly unlikely golden rating you know they won't get. It's like down playing an All Star player for not being MVP candidate level.


I don’t even think the numbers are “bad.” I was speaking generally about numbers. I’m just not impressed and make the case that the numbers depend on your perspective, and some perspectives may or may not be shared by people with power.

Is 750k impressive compared to a show like Impact Wrestling? Yes. Is it impressive compared to a show like Monday Night Raw? No way. These are both contemporary wrestling shows that air now. This isn’t me going back in time.

My point about cable losing viewers isn’t that it isn’t happening, but that it is an inevitability, or that it’s a bunch of people really enjoying the shit out of cable saying “Man, I really love watching cable, but I’ve just got to stop watching this shit because it’s 2021...what a shame.” There are possible merit factors to the decline of cable. One of those factors could simply just be that the wrestling is shitty, so who gives a fuck? To reverse engineer that into “well, I think this wrestling is good, so I’m going to use the decline of shit wrestling to justify the lack of success of the wrestling I like” is a bias confirming move. It’s at least unverifiable with a lot more factors going into it than “Well cable isn’t doing well, so who could expect AEW to find a larger audience? Fart.”

I’m of the opinion that there is absolutely no sane reason that AEW Dynamite — on TNT, with wrestling stars, competent and addictive booking, etc. — cannot beat Monday Night Raw in the ratings. I don’t fuck with that “Raw’s old so it’s always going to be more popular” bullshit. It’s a 3 hour dinosaur that meanders most weeks and cannot string together a compelling overall narrative just due to the nature of what it is.

So 1.8 million would be a number that would begin to register with me as “good.” And there are plenty of shows that get that on cable. The “top 10” thing comes from alleged key demos, which were a thing back when younger people had the most disposable income and the idea was to be “hip” and “edgy.” I’ve gone into why I don’t buy that as a modern marketing strategy for cable TV programs in 2021. As I said, of the “Top 150” Showbuzz list, which is probably leaving quite a few more watched shows out, AEW was #17 in terms of overall popularity on Wednesday. If we just want to talk about popularity, that doesn’t factor in what was on streaming, network TV or other nights of the week. And there’s nothing false or fraudulent about anything I’m saying there.

Numbers can perform. People act like they just are what they are, but people can get the stories out of them that they want to. You can spin AEW into being the #2 show of the week if you want to look at one section of the audience. I personally think this is antiquated and problematic. But you can also look at AEW as #17 on Wednesday at best. It all depends on perspective.


----------



## The Wood

3venflow said:


> Here's TNA's average ratings from each year until the AXS era (they average in the low 100k now). It puts into perspective how impressive it is for AEW to hit 1.2m in 2021 imo considering how much higher ratings were in general back then.
> 
> FSN (Fri. 3pm) - 2004 - 0.2
> FSN (Fri. 4pm) - 2005 - 0.3
> Spike (Sat. 11pm) - 2005–2006 - 0.7
> Spike (Thu. 11pm) - 2006 - 0.9
> Spike (Thu. 9pm) - 2006–2007 - 1.0
> Spike (Thu. 9pm; 2hrs) - 2007–2010 - 1.2
> Spike (Mon. 9pm; 2hrs) - 2010 - 0.7
> Spike (Mon. 8pm; 2hrs) - 2010 - 0.9
> Spike (Thu 9pm; 2hrs) - 2010–2012 - 1.1
> Spike (Thu 8pm: 2hrs) - 2012–2013 - 1.0
> Spike (Thu 9pm: 2hrs) - 2013–2014 - 1.0
> Spike (Wed 9pm: 2hrs) - 2014 - 0.8
> Destination America (Fri 9pm: 2hrs) - 2015 - 390,000
> Destination America (Wed 9pm: 2hrs) - 2015 - 292,000
> Pop (Tues 9pm: 2hrs) - 2016 - 332,000
> Pop (Thu 8pm: 2hrs) - 2016–2018 - 300,000


A few things. Those early numbers are the ratings, not the number of viewers. The magic number for TNA used to be 1.1. But there were more than 1,100,000 people watching.

TNA also went from a pretty well-known and accessible cable channel (especially when it came to wrestling fans) to one that a lot of people really had to search for and didn’t know exist. To act like comparing Destination America and TNT is fair after just trying to compare cable now to cable of the past to let it off the hook is just a tiny bit rich, lol.

See, it’s all about perspective.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

3venflow said:


> Here's TNA's average ratings from each year until the AXS era (they average in the low 100k now). It puts into perspective how impressive it is for AEW to hit 1.2m in 2021 imo considering how much higher ratings were in general back then.
> 
> FSN (Fri. 3pm) - 2004 - 0.2
> FSN (Fri. 4pm) - 2005 - 0.3
> Spike (Sat. 11pm) - 2005–2006 - 0.7
> Spike (Thu. 11pm) - 2006 - 0.9
> Spike (Thu. 9pm) - 2006–2007 - 1.0
> Spike (Thu. 9pm; 2hrs) - 2007–2010 - 1.2
> Spike (Mon. 9pm; 2hrs) - 2010 - 0.7
> Spike (Mon. 8pm; 2hrs) - 2010 - 0.9
> Spike (Thu 9pm; 2hrs) - 2010–2012 - 1.1
> Spike (Thu 8pm: 2hrs) - 2012–2013 - 1.0
> Spike (Thu 9pm: 2hrs) - 2013–2014 - 1.0
> Spike (Wed 9pm: 2hrs) - 2014 - 0.8
> Destination America (Fri 9pm: 2hrs) - 2015 - 390,000
> Destination America (Wed 9pm: 2hrs) - 2015 - 292,000
> Pop (Tues 9pm: 2hrs) - 2016 - 332,000
> Pop (Thu 8pm: 2hrs) - 2016–2018 - 300,000


Interesting, thanks. So they were relatively consistent at around the 1m mark for a few years up til 2014. The graph on the last page suggests todays cable viewership is at around 35-40% (approx) of what is was in 2014. So an 'adjusted' TNA figure for 2021 might be 350-400k.

Obviously you might want to factor in a few other things but it's a reasonable starting point for assessing the performance of a main competitor of WWE at the two points in time.

Whichever way you cut it that does not paint a bleak picture when we consider AEW at 750k (certainly not 1.2m!). Presumably there would be a lot more people watching by alternative means today too (an assumption on my behalf).



The Wood said:


> I don’t even think the numbers are “bad.” I was speaking generally about numbers. I’m just not impressed and make the case that the numbers depend on your perspective, and some perspectives may or may not be shared by people with power.
> 
> Is 750k impressive compared to a show like Impact Wrestling? Yes. Is it impressive compared to a show like Monday Night Raw? No way. These are both contemporary wrestling shows that air now. This isn’t me going back in time.
> 
> My point about cable losing viewers isn’t that it isn’t happening, but that it is an inevitability, or that it’s a bunch of people really enjoying the shit out of cable saying “Man, I really love watching cable, but I’ve just got to stop watching this shit because it’s 2021...what a shame.” There are possible merit factors to the decline of cable. One of those factors could simply just be that the wrestling is shitty, so who gives a fuck? To reverse engineer that into “well, I think this wrestling is good, so I’m going to use the decline of shit wrestling to justify the lack of success of the wrestling I like” is a bias confirming move. It’s at least unverifiable with a lot more factors going into it than “Well cable isn’t doing well, so who could expect AEW to find a larger audience? Fart.”
> 
> I’m of the opinion that there is absolutely no sane reason that AEW Dynamite — on TNT, with wrestling stars, competent and addictive booking, etc. — cannot beat Monday Night Raw in the ratings. I don’t fuck with that “Raw’s old so it’s always going to be more popular” bullshit. It’s a 3 hour dinosaur that meanders most weeks and cannot string together a compelling overall narrative just due to the nature of what it is.
> 
> So 1.8 million would be a number that would begin to register with me as “good.” And there are plenty of shows that get that on cable. The “top 10” thing comes from alleged key demos, which were a thing back when younger people had the most disposable income and the idea was to be “hip” and “edgy.” I’ve gone into why I don’t buy that as a modern marketing strategy for cable TV programs in 2021. As I said, of the “Top 150” Showbuzz list, which is probably leaving quite a few more watched shows out, AEW was #17 in terms of overall popularity on Wednesday. If we just want to talk about popularity, that doesn’t factor in what was on streaming, network TV or other nights of the week. And there’s nothing false or fraudulent about anything I’m saying there.
> 
> Numbers can perform. People act like they just are what they are, but people can get the stories out of them that they want to. You can spin AEW into being the #2 show of the week if you want to look at one section of the audience. I personally think this is antiquated and problematic. But you can also look at AEW as #17 on Wednesday at best. It all depends on perspective.


How much were Raw doing by comparison with TNA back then? Presumably you would expect them to be matching Raw's figures to be counted as "good" as you're suggesting with AEW here?


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Double post


----------



## 3venflow

Pentagon Senior said:


> Whichever way you cut it that does not paint a bleak picture when we consider AEW at 750k (certainly not 1.2m!). Presumably there would be a lot more people watching by alternative means today too (an assumption on my behalf).


Well, look at RAW's ratings. Except the odd year or two, it's been a near continuous decline since the turn of the millennium. During that time, the quality didn't necessarily worsen every year (obviously it has more recently), but the change in TV habits meant the arrow was only pointing one way... down.

This is what Nick Khan of WWE said at their Q4 2020 investors call.

"We don’t believe that we’ve lost eyeballs. *We believe eyeballs tend to shift from linear to digital platforms*. So if you look at even our Facebook numbers, which are significantly up the last six months or so, including the revenue against those numbers, we think the eyeballs are there."

It ties in to what I and others on here have been saying... live TV is not nearly as popular as it used to be. There's no pressure to watch things as they happen now, everything can be viewed on demand, highlights can be viewed on YouTube, Facebook and Twitter, and there is more quality TV than ever before thanks to Netflix and company.

And that's why I think AEW is doing very well and 1.2m was exceptional in bucking the trend, if only for one week. Warner were so happy about it they literally sent out a press release to media partners, praising the total viewership and key demo.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

3venflow said:


> Well, look at RAW's ratings. Except the odd year or two, it's been a near continuous decline since the turn of the millennium. During that time, the quality didn't necessarily worsen every year (obviously it has more recently), but the change in TV habits meant the arrow was only pointing one way... down.
> 
> This is what Nick Khan of WWE said at their Q4 2020 investors call.
> 
> "We don’t believe that we’ve lost eyeballs. *We believe eyeballs tend to shift from linear to digital platforms*. So if you look at even our Facebook numbers, which are significantly up the last six months or so, including the revenue against those numbers, we think the eyeballs are there."
> 
> It ties in to what I and others on here have been saying... live TV is not nearly as popular as it used to be. There's no pressure to watch things as they happen now, everything can be viewed on demand, highlights can be viewed on YouTube, Facebook and Twitter, and there is more quality TV than ever before thanks to Netflix and company.
> 
> And that's why I think AEW is doing very well and 1.2m was exceptional in bucking the trend, if only for one week. Warner were so happy about it they literally sent out a press release to media partners, praising the total viewership and key demo.


Hey, I'm totally on board and thanks for the additional info 👍 considering the drop in Raw ratings and cable ratings generally since 2014 I'd say the comparison paints a healthy picture for AEW's stats, even at 750k (and whatever their average demo is) If they stick well over a million I'd go so far as to say it's a very impressive achievement. Fingers crossed. All the signs from TNT suggest a relatively positive mood from them too imo. 

I think you'd have to be pretty miserly to conclude that AEW are failing in this respect, or even that their ratings aren't at the very least decent-to-good.


----------



## RapShepard

The Wood said:


> I don’t even think the numbers are “bad.” I was speaking generally about numbers. I’m just not impressed and make the case that the numbers depend on your perspective, and some perspectives may or may not be shared by people with power.
> 
> Is 750k impressive compared to a show like Impact Wrestling? Yes. Is it impressive compared to a show like Monday Night Raw? No way. These are both contemporary wrestling shows that air now. This isn’t me going back in time.


Is it not possible for both to be good though given the current landscape of TV? Now you make this point later but I'll address it now. Now I totally agree that being new doesn't mean they can't beat WWE in ratings. But it's also fair to acknowledge that being new means they start at a brand power deficit. Which means they pretty much have to put on an elite TV show to overcome the gap, which as of now they aren't doing. But that said what they're doing right now is still good by all reasonable metrics we get. 



> My point about cable losing viewers isn’t that it isn’t happening, but that it is an inevitability, or that it’s a bunch of people really enjoying the shit out of cable saying “Man, I really love watching cable, but I’ve just got to stop watching this shit because it’s 2021...what a shame.” There are possible merit factors to the decline of cable. One of those factors could simply just be that the wrestling is shitty, so who gives a fuck? To reverse engineer that into “well, I think this wrestling is good, so I’m going to use the decline of shit wrestling to justify the lack of success of the wrestling I like” is a bias confirming move. It’s at least unverifiable with a lot more factors going into it than “Well cable isn’t doing well, so who could expect AEW to find a larger audience? Fart.”


Idk how it is in Australia, but at least here in the States it's widely acknowledged that most people are cable cutting due to the cable companies themselves. Most people are tired of paying $130+ plus a month for a home phone they don't use and a cable package where you really only watch 5 or 6 out of the 130+ options you're forced to also pay for. For most people the only positive in the phone, TV, and internet packages most cable companies twist your arm to get is the internet. 

Before all these extra streaming services popped up the last 2 years it was much cheaper to pay about $60-$70 for internet and then $20 for Netflix and Hulu with ads.

When a lot of people are cutting cords and TV across the board are seeing a decline in viewership why wouldn't wrestling also be affected?



> I’m of the opinion that there is absolutely no sane reason that AEW Dynamite — on TNT, with wrestling stars, competent and addictive booking, etc. — cannot beat Monday Night Raw in the ratings. I don’t fuck with that “Raw’s old so it’s always going to be more popular” bullshit. It’s a 3 hour dinosaur that meanders most weeks and cannot string together a compelling overall narrative just due to the nature of what it is.


Answered above 



> So 1.8 million would be a number that would begin to register with me as “good.” And there are plenty of shows that get that on cable. The “top 10” thing comes from alleged key demos, which were a thing back when younger people had the most disposable income and the idea was to be “hip” and “edgy.” I’ve gone into why I don’t buy that as a modern marketing strategy for cable TV programs in 2021. As I said, of the “Top 150” Showbuzz list, which is probably leaving quite a few more watched shows out, AEW was #17 in terms of overall popularity on Wednesday. If we just want to talk about popularity, *that doesn’t factor in what was on streaming*, network TV or other nights of the week. And there’s nothing false or fraudulent about anything I’m saying there.


Several points and questions

1. Why is 1.8 the floor for what you consider a good wrestling number? How and why did you get to this number as your basement?

2. Why are you allegeding the key demos aren't real? Now if you said wrestling fans recently seem to be into demos with AEW I would agree, as before it was mostly about viewership numbers. But denying there are key demos just seems strange, especially since it's not like an AEW specific thing. Demos matter to advertisers, now of course different companies care about different demos. 

But the idea of 18-49 men and female being the biggest demo for advertisers isn't so far fetched at all. As you can only really market to kids on the few kids networks. Then the older you skew the less likely you are to be sold certain things like new cars, alcohol, movies, and other shit.

3. Why only acknowledge streaming and how big it is when attempting to down play them and the views they get? You leave out streaming all of this time to avoid acknowledging a big part of why TV viewership is down as a whole. But now you acknowledge how big streaming is to downplay them being the 17th most watch program of the night out of 150 cable shows. 




> Numbers can perform. People act like they just are what they are, but people can get the stories out of them that they want to. You can spin AEW into being the #2 show of the week if you want to look at one section of the audience. I personally think this is antiquated and problematic. But you can also look at AEW as #17 on Wednesday at best. It all depends on perspective.


Yes you can look at numbers how you want. Yours just seems to land on twisting it to whatever view allows you to give them hell. I mean even if we take the 2nd perspective. Can you say with a straight face that if you're a TNT executive, that you'd be upset and want a program off your channel that is the 17th most watched and top 10 in demo in prime time cable? Mind you I'm not asking you if you'd be wanting to do better. I'm just asking you if you'd be upset and be calling for cancellation for a program performing like that against literally hundreds of shows competing with it.


----------



## Outlaw91

RapShepard said:


> Most people are tired of paying $130+ plus a month for a home phone they don't use and a cable package where you really only watch 5 or 6 out of the 130+ options you're forced to also pay for.


That much? 
Here we pay 15-20 dollars per month for cable and internet package. I don't think there are many people with home phones, they are useless.


----------



## RapShepard

Outlaw91 said:


> That much?
> Here we pay 15-20 dollars per month for cable and internet package. I don't think there are many people with home phones, they are useless.


Yup that much quick break down my last bill was $170.27

*$170.27*
Spectrum Cable $75.95
Internet Service $60.99
Phone Service $9.99
Other Charges $16.45
Taxes $6.89

Further breakdown

*Spectrum TV*
Spectrum TV select (basic tv and extended basic tv) $73.99 this is their lowest package, no premium channel with tons of normal TV channels that are missing. 

Spectrum Receivers 4 at $7.99 each for $31.96 (tbf to them could cut those Receivers by using smart tvs, over the top devices, and game consoles. But prefer not overloading the wifi)

Promotional discount I got by threatening to go to dish $30


*Total*$75.95

* Internet Services *

Spectrum internet $74.99

Bundle discount $9.99

Wifi Service $5.00

Promotional discount I got by threatening to go to dish $10

*Total* 60.99


* Spectrum Voice *

Basic phone with unlimited long distance, modem, and free calls to select countries and US territories $9.99

*Total*$9.99

* Other Charges*
Broadcast TV charge $16.45 (this is what ABC, NBC, CBS, CW and Fox charge to be aired by Spectrum)

*Total* 16.45

*Taxes, Fees, and Charges*

State and local taxes $2.10

FCC admin fee $0.07

Franchise Fees $4.27

*Total* $6.88


So yeah cable and internet here is pretty fucked up. The only reason most old people have is due to unfamiliarity with streaming. Folk my age range typically only have it if they have the extra income or can't find things they want elsewhere for cheaper. If you watch live sports streaming isn't really a better option as live sports packages on stuff like Hulu basically works out to cable prices.


----------



## The Wood

RapShepard said:


> Is it not possible for both to be good though given the current landscape of TV? Now you make this point later but I'll address it now. Now I totally agree that being new doesn't mean they can't beat WWE in ratings. But it's also fair to acknowledge that being new means they start at a brand power deficit. Which means they pretty much have to put on an elite TV show to overcome the gap, which as of now they aren't doing. But that said what they're doing right now is still good by all reasonable metrics we get.
> 
> 
> 
> Idk how it is in Australia, but at least here in the States it's widely acknowledged that most people are cable cutting due to the cable companies themselves. Most people are tired of paying $130+ plus a month for a home phone they don't use and a cable package where you really only watch 5 or 6 out of the 130+ options you're forced to also pay for. For most people the only positive in the phone, TV, and internet packages most cable companies twist your arm to get is the internet.
> 
> Before all these extra streaming services popped up the last 2 years it was much cheaper to pay about $60-$70 for internet and then $20 for Netflix and Hulu with ads.
> 
> When a lot of people are cutting cords and TV across the board are seeing a decline in viewership why wouldn't wrestling also be affected?
> 
> 
> Answered above
> 
> 
> 
> Several points and questions
> 
> 1. Why is 1.8 the floor for what you consider a good wrestling number? How and why did you get to this number as your basement?
> 
> 2. Why are you allegeding the key demos aren't real? Now if you said wrestling fans recently seem to be into demos with AEW I would agree, as before it was mostly about viewership numbers. But denying there are key demos just seems strange, especially since it's not like an AEW specific thing. Demos matter to advertisers, now of course different companies care about different demos.
> 
> But the idea of 18-49 men and female being the biggest demo for advertisers isn't so far fetched at all. As you can only really market to kids on the few kids networks. Then the older you skew the less likely you are to be sold certain things like new cars, alcohol, movies, and other shit.
> 
> 3. Why only acknowledge streaming and how big it is when attempting to down play them and the views they get? You leave out streaming all of this time to avoid acknowledging a big part of why TV viewership is down as a whole. But now you acknowledge how big streaming is to downplay them being the 17th most watch program of the night out of 150 cable shows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes you can look at numbers how you want. Yours just seems to land on twisting it to whatever view allows you to give them hell. I mean even if we take the 2nd perspective. Can you say with a straight face that if you're a TNT executive, that you'd be upset and want a program off your channel that is the 17th most watched and top 10 in demo in prime time cable? Mind you I'm not asking you if you'd be wanting to do better. I'm just asking you if you'd be upset and be calling for cancellation for a program performing like that against literally hundreds of shows competing with it.


Good post. Should make for a good discussion:

Being new does mean you have to establish yourself, but it doesn’t mean you can’t. Especially now that we are into year two of Dynamite. This isn’t even a “new” show anymore. How many in the TV landscape would love to be doing episode #75 and still have people defending it as needing to find its feet. Episode #75 would be 150 hours of television you have to get something over.

Being fresh can also serve as an advantage. That’s why things get marketed as “NEW!” It can mean good. Check it out. Be one of the first. This is explosive content. This is important.

It’s basically the same here in Australia. But people aren’t cutting at the rate people think they are. What are there...75 million people with cable in the US. When cable viewers decline at a faster rate than people are cutting cable, I think you’ve got to turn inwards a little too. It can’t all just be the fault of technology changing. Not all of it.

Would I expect wrestling to decrease in viewership? Sure. There’s a period of time where people actually got cable _for_ wrestling though. And wrestling could justify not cutting cable.

The idea that good wrestling is going to lose out on viewers just because people are cutting cable is creating a causal link where there doesn’t actually need to be one — not definitely — and it’s kind of a defeatist smokescreen to try and take the onus off content to be better.

1. Because 1.8 million is about what a shitty 3 hour show that people apparently crave an alternative to gets. A large reason AEW exists is because they believe in this dissatisfied and disenfranchised fan. If they were doing with 2 hours what Raw was doing with a 3rd bringing them down, I’d call that good. There is an audience of that many people got even shit wrestling.

2. I’m not alleging that they aren’t real. I just don’t think this is how advertisers go about collating their information anymore. I’ve used the example of the difference between an 18 year old black kid in San Fransisco and a 49 year old white trucker in Mobile. Why would an advertiser see these customers as being similar? They both fit that “key demo.” Couldn’t be more different. And who has that much disposable income in 2021? I’d say the balance of wealth shifted to older generations, by and large.

Anytime you look up Nielsen, you often see them talking about attracting audiences based on ethnicity or sexuality instead of age. It’s kind of an archaic and arbitrary way to identify someone’s culture in 2021.

3. I’m not denying that streaming isn’t a thing. It’s definitely the future, and it’s why any smart content creator is looking to get involved there. Getting a deal with Netflix would be golden, and it an AEW pulled it off, it’d probably be the biggest boon to them they’ve ever experienced. But that doesn’t mean that cable is completely dead yet. Some of those shows did 2 million, 3 million viewers. Those audiences _are still possible_, whether that can be perceived by the modern wrestling fan at not.

By the way, I’m willing to bet there are more shows that did more than 1.2 million viewers that weren’t listed by that demo that would knock AEW down even further for the night, and even for the week.

Let’s not pretend that this is the best that either show could do with the landscape the way it is. Let’s not just settle on this number being “normal” because there hasn’t been an alternative to the WWE for over 20 years. Good wrestling — a hot product — can do as well as just about everything else on cable. Just because it doesn’t get 9 million viewers anymore, doesn’t mean it can’t do better than 1.2.


----------



## DaSlacker

I'd argue wrestling could, in theory, still pull in close to the same number of viewers as Carlson and Hannity. So say about 3 to 3.5 million. But it's not even conjecture, I'm just pulling numbers out of thin air. The audience has changed; what people and sponsors will accept has changed. 

Too many variables to say for certain. For example, Raw does 1.9 million viewers. But the WWE brand is a long established household name and wrestling has been in the 9pm slot on a Monday since 1985. There's the 3 hour dose of wrestling delivered at the beginning of the week. That certainly stands for something. 

Impact had perhaps it's best run in early 2009. It pulled 1.7 to 1.9 million viewers on a regular basis. At the same time Raw had 5.2 million viewers. TNA by that point had been on air for 4 years and Thursday was somewhat established as another wrestling night since 1998. Still, Impact wasn't helped by their 90's production values and Impact Zone setting. 

AEW may have been indirectly boosted by Wednesday night becoming a wrestling night via the WNWs. Time will tell if and by how much. Still, they ain't yet two years old and over a year of that has been spent in an amphitheater with barely any audience. So they haven't had it easy. 

As for other cable ratings. In 2009 you had the Nickelodeon shows (ICarly, SpongeBob, True Jackson etc) on 3.5 to 5 million viewers. These days it's 500,000 on a good day. South Park was hitting 3 million on Comedy Central - by 2019 it couldn't hit 1 million. Deadliest Catch on Discovery was hitting over 4 million viewers in 2009. In 2021 Gold Rush has 1.5 million. MTV is the same - 2.6 million for The Hills 12 years ago, 900,000 for The Challenge today. Even the 50+ faves - Lifetime and Hallmark original movies - have dropped by a bit.


----------



## The Wood

DaSlacker said:


> I'd argue wrestling could, in theory, still pull in close to the same number of viewers as Carlson and Hannity. So say about 3 to 3.5 million. But it's not even conjecture, I'm just pulling numbers out of thin air. The audience has changed; what people and sponsors will accept has changed.
> 
> Too many variables to say for certain. For example, Raw does 1.9 million viewers. But the WWE brand is a long established household name and wrestling has been in the 9pm slot on a Monday since 1985. There's the 3 hour dose of wrestling delivered at the beginning of the week. That certainly stands for something.
> 
> Impact had perhaps it's best run in early 2009. It pulled 1.7 to 1.9 million viewers on a regular basis. At the same time Raw had 5.2 million viewers. TNA by that point had been on air for 4 years and Thursday was somewhat established as another wrestling night since 1998. Still, Impact wasn't helped by their 90's production values and Impact Zone setting.
> 
> AEW may have been indirectly boosted by Wednesday night becoming a wrestling night via the WNWs. Time will tell if and by how much. Still, they ain't yet two years old and over a year of that has been spent in an amphitheater with barely any audience. So they haven't had it easy.
> 
> As for other cable ratings. In 2009 you had the Nickelodeon shows (ICarly, SpongeBob, True Jackson etc) on 3.5 to 5 million viewers. These days it's 500,000 on a good day. South Park was hitting 3 million on Comedy Central - by 2019 it couldn't hit 1 million. Deadliest Catch on Discovery was hitting over 4 million viewers in 2009. In 2021 Gold Rush has 1.5 million. MTV is the same - 2.6 million for The Hills 12 years ago, 900,000 for The Challenge today. Even the 50+ faves - Lifetime and Hallmark original movies - have dropped by a bit.


Reasonable post, although I obviously disagree with some of your musings. I definitely think getting 3 to 3.5 milllion is possible.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

DaSlacker said:


> I'd argue wrestling could, in theory, still pull in close to the same number of viewers as Carlson and Hannity. So say about 3 to 3.5 million. But it's not even conjecture, I'm just pulling numbers out of thin air. The audience has changed; what people and sponsors will accept has changed.
> 
> Too many variables to say for certain. For example, Raw does 1.9 million viewers. But the WWE brand is a long established household name and wrestling has been in the 9pm slot on a Monday since 1985. There's the 3 hour dose of wrestling delivered at the beginning of the week. That certainly stands for something.
> 
> Impact had perhaps it's best run in early 2009. It pulled 1.7 to 1.9 million viewers on a regular basis. At the same time Raw had 5.2 million viewers. TNA by that point had been on air for 4 years and Thursday was somewhat established as another wrestling night since 1998. Still, Impact wasn't helped by their 90's production values and Impact Zone setting.
> 
> AEW may have been indirectly boosted by Wednesday night becoming a wrestling night via the WNWs. Time will tell if and by how much. Still, they ain't yet two years old and over a year of that has been spent in an amphitheater with barely any audience. So they haven't had it easy.
> 
> As for other cable ratings. In 2009 you had the Nickelodeon shows (ICarly, SpongeBob, True Jackson etc) on 3.5 to 5 million viewers. These days it's 500,000 on a good day. South Park was hitting 3 million on Comedy Central - by 2019 it couldn't hit 1 million. Deadliest Catch on Discovery was hitting over 4 million viewers in 2009. In 2021 Gold Rush has 1.5 million. MTV is the same - 2.6 million for The Hills 12 years ago, 900,000 for The Challenge today. Even the 50+ faves - Lifetime and Hallmark original movies - have dropped by a bit.


Lots of good points. 

I would suspect at the time of TNA there was a far greater pool of 'lapsed fans' actively looking for an alternative whereas by 10-15 years later many of them had likely moved on with life? It'd be difficult to put a figure on it though, it's an assumption on my part. 

It's an interesting point about Wednesday nights - could WWE have potentially shot thelselves in the foot by helping to establish it as a wrestling night before being forced to leave it free to AEW? We will see. 

I do think the most overlooked factor when it comes to assessing AEW performance is the effect of covid, no touring, no crowds etc. It affected the product badly for a few months. It's an unprecedented event that happened very early on in their development. Again we can't put a figure on it but looking across the board it seemed to have a negative effect on all promotions. 

But, the clearest and most obvious factor is the rapidly decreasing cable viewership across the board - there's no getting away from that. 750k today (or even 1.2m) is a lot more impressive than the same figure 5, 10 or 15 years ago.

Edit - what figure is possible today? Hard to say but maybe 1.4-1.5m in the medium term based on figures since they started. Any growth from there would take a long time to establish the brand imo. I think 3m+ is unrealistic personally considering most people will find ways of watching outside of a cable network, especially the youngster viewers who you need on board for growth.


----------



## A PG Attitude

RapShepard said:


> Yup that much quick break down my last bill was $170.27
> 
> *$170.27*
> Spectrum Cable $75.95
> Internet Service $60.99
> Phone Service $9.99
> Other Charges $16.45
> Taxes $6.89
> 
> Further breakdown
> 
> *Spectrum TV*
> Spectrum TV select (basic tv and extended basic tv) $73.99 this is their lowest package, no premium channel with tons of normal TV channels that are missing.
> 
> Spectrum Receivers 4 at $7.99 each for $31.96 (tbf to them could cut those Receivers by using smart tvs, over the top devices, and game consoles. But prefer not overloading the wifi)
> 
> Promotional discount I got by threatening to go to dish $30
> 
> 
> *Total*$75.95
> 
> * Internet Services *
> 
> Spectrum internet $74.99
> 
> Bundle discount $9.99
> 
> Wifi Service $5.00
> 
> Promotional discount I got by threatening to go to dish $10
> 
> *Total* 60.99
> 
> 
> * Spectrum Voice *
> 
> Basic phone with unlimited long distance, modem, and free calls to select countries and US territories $9.99
> 
> *Total*$9.99
> 
> * Other Charges*
> Broadcast TV charge $16.45 (this is what ABC, NBC, CBS, CW and Fox charge to be aired by Spectrum)
> 
> *Total* 16.45
> 
> *Taxes, Fees, and Charges*
> 
> State and local taxes $2.10
> 
> FCC admin fee $0.07
> 
> Franchise Fees $4.27
> 
> *Total* $6.88
> 
> 
> So yeah cable and internet here is pretty fucked up. The only reason most old people have is due to unfamiliarity with streaming. Folk my age range typically only have it if they have the extra income or can't find things they want elsewhere for cheaper. If you watch live sports streaming isn't really a better option as live sports packages on stuff like Hulu basically works out to cable prices.


I pay £24.20 a month for broadband internet and £50 a year to an IPTV provider that gives me everything thats on streaming services plus all British and American channels and all sports ppvs for free on an app on firestick. It blows my mind that people are still letting themselves be ripped off by cable companies in this day and age.


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> Lots of good points.
> 
> I would suspect at the time of TNA there was a far greater pool of 'lapsed fans' actively looking for an alternative whereas by 10-15 years later many of them had likely moved on with life? It'd be difficult to put a figure on it though, it's an assumption on my part.
> 
> It's an interesting point about Wednesday nights - could WWE have potentially shot thelselves in the foot by helping to establish it as a wrestling night before being forced to leave it free to AEW? We will see.
> 
> I do think the most overlooked factor when it comes to assessing AEW performance is the effect of covid, no touring, no crowds etc. It affected the product badly for a few months. It's an unprecedented event that happened very early on in their development. Again we can't put a figure on it but looking across the board it seemed to have a negative effect on all promotions.
> 
> But, the clearest and most obvious factor is the rapidly decreasing cable viewership across the board - there's no getting away from that. 750k today (or even 1.2m) is a lot more impressive than the same figure 5, 10 or 15 years ago.
> 
> Edit - what figure is possible today? Hard to say but maybe 1.4-1.5m in the medium term based on figures since they started. Any growth from there would take a long time to establish the brand imo. I think 3m+ is unrealistic personally considering most people will find ways of watching outside of a cable network, especially the youngster viewers who you need on board for growth.


It may seem reasonable to assume that, but plenty of trends are assumed based on “reason,” but then turn out to be completely inverse.

Like how many would assume that having boxing gloves would make boxing a less dangerous sport, but the “safety gear” actually makes it more dangerous. The same with the mats at ringside for wrestling.

A decrease in cable viewers might lend itself to lower ratings across the board. But there actually doesn’t need to be a causal link there. Some people might try to get more value out of something they spend more money on, for example. Like a gym membership or a streaming subscription slips by cancellation, but if someone is paying premium dollar for a service, they might feel more compelled to use it.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> It may seem reasonable to assume that, but plenty of trends are assumed based on “reason,” but then turn out to be completely inverse.
> 
> Like how many would assume that having boxing gloves would make boxing a less dangerous sport, but the “safety gear” actually makes it more dangerous. The same with the mats at ringside for wrestling.
> 
> A decrease in cable viewers might lend itself to lower ratings across the board. But there actually doesn’t need to be a causal link there. Some people might try to get more value out of something they spend more money on, for example. Like a gym membership or a streaming subscription slips by cancellation, but if someone is paying premium dollar for a service, they might feel more compelled to use it.


Indeed, to me it seems perfectly reasonable and logical to assume that. 

I don't see the correlation between the boxing analogy and cable viewers to be honest. It's like me saying in Formula 1 extra safety precautions have led to less injuries. Which counters the boxing example. But neither is relevant to this unrelated topic. 

I mean, what you're saying COULD be true - anythings possible at the end of the day - but it would be totally counterintuitive to logic and to the evidence across the board. WWE stats drop with cable viewership, as do live sports as far as I understand. But if you've got any alternative evidence to support your hypothesis feel free to share.


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> Indeed, to me it seems perfectly reasonable and logical to assume that.
> 
> I don't see the correlation between the boxing analogy and cable viewers to be honest. It's like me saying in Formula 1 extra safety precautions have led to less injuries. Which counters the boxing example. But neither is relevant to this unrelated topic.
> 
> I mean, what you're saying COULD be true - anythings possible at the end of the day - but it would be totally counterintuitive to logic and to the evidence across the board. WWE stats drop with cable viewership, as do live sports as far as I understand. But if you've got any alternative evidence to support your hypothesis feel free to share.


Have extra safety precautions led to less injuries? If that’s a thing then that’s a thing. If injuries went up because of other issues, or because drivers got more ambitious or felt overly secure, then that would be a thing that runs opposite to that.

It’s like the stats about how most motor vehicle accidents happen within a very close radius to your home, or that slow driving can be way more dangerous than fast driving.

Lots of things run counterintuitively to what someone may expect.

Raw has also sucked as a show. It’s also 3 hours. It’s also embraced other ways to disperse itself. There are also more channels to divide attention.

The thing AEW apologists really miss with their “ratings would have been higher back in the day” argument, is that AEW has missed the mark with the viewers who are actually there. The 75 million or whatever with cable and the 1.4 million who were willing to give it a shot.

You can’t retroactively go back and scale up ratings from today like currency, lol.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Wood said:


> Have extra safety precautions led to less injuries? If that’s a thing then that’s a thing. If injuries went up because of other issues, or because drivers got more ambitious or felt overly secure, then that would be a thing that runs opposite to that.
> 
> It’s like the stats about how most motor vehicle accidents happen within a very close radius to your home, or that slow driving can be way more dangerous than fast driving.


Yes they have, very much so. 

Yeah I'm not guna get drawn down the motor vehicle rabbit hole lol the point is none of that is relevant to wrestling viewer ratings on cable TV. 



The Wood said:


> Lots of things run counterintuitively to what someone may expect.


Sure, that's a very obvious statement. If you have anything specific to wrestling ratings and cable TV that would be relevant here. 



The Wood said:


> Raw has also sucked as a show. It’s also 3 hours. It’s also embraced other ways to disperse itself. There are also more channels to divide attention.


Nobody is going to disagree with you that Raw sucks. It's sucked for a long time as far as I understand. But it's also an accepted trend that cable viewership is dropping generally and regardless of quality. Like, it's so well accepted that it feels strange even discussing it here. 



The Wood said:


> The thing AEW apologists really miss with their “ratings would have been higher back in the day” argument, is that AEW has missed the mark with the viewers who are actually there. The 75 million or whatever with cable and the 1.4 million who were willing to give it a shot.


People DVR, people stream etc. You've said this yourself when it suits your argument and that's been pointed out to you already. Many of those 1.4m could still be watching via alternative means. Sure, some of those people didn't like it and that's not surprising. But they got 1.2m live last week. Expecting a near 100% retention rate, bearing in mind alternative viewing methods, is unrealistic. 



The Wood said:


> You can’t retroactively go back and scale up ratings from today like currency, lol.


It's not an exact science but of course you would scale back according to trends if you were analysing cable viewers now compared to the past. Why would you not lol. If we're ignoring such an obvious factor that has changed over time - I can tell you that AEW gets 100% more cable viewers than anyone else did in the 1920's 🤯

Look, this whole debate is speculative so we can't know for sure who's right and wrong. But I'm guna be honest - you're doing the same old twisting and reaching for things to fit your predetermined narrative of 'AEW bad'. Whilst it is a speculative topic I'd say it's clear that some people in this thread are at least sticking with logic and rationale whilst others are, less so. It's not a horse I need to keep flogging though, so I'll opt out.


----------



## RapShepard

A PG Attitude said:


> I pay £24.20 a month for broadband internet and £50 a year to an IPTV provider that gives me everything thats on streaming services plus all British and American channels and all sports ppvs for free on an app on firestick. It blows my mind that people are still letting themselves be ripped off by cable companies in this day and age.


I couldn't get into the fire stick thing. I don't mind searching around for a good stream of a PPV. But I'd be annoyed doing that multiple times a week. 

But what's IPTV


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> Yup that much quick break down my last bill was $170.27
> 
> *$170.27*
> Spectrum Cable $75.95
> Internet Service $60.99
> Phone Service $9.99
> Other Charges $16.45
> Taxes $6.89
> 
> Further breakdown
> 
> *Spectrum TV*
> Spectrum TV select (basic tv and extended basic tv) $73.99 this is their lowest package, no premium channel with tons of normal TV channels that are missing.
> 
> Spectrum Receivers 4 at $7.99 each for $31.96 (tbf to them could cut those Receivers by using smart tvs, over the top devices, and game consoles. But prefer not overloading the wifi)
> 
> Promotional discount I got by threatening to go to dish $30
> 
> 
> *Total*$75.95
> 
> * Internet Services *
> 
> Spectrum internet $74.99
> 
> Bundle discount $9.99
> 
> Wifi Service $5.00
> 
> Promotional discount I got by threatening to go to dish $10
> 
> *Total* 60.99
> 
> 
> * Spectrum Voice *
> 
> Basic phone with unlimited long distance, modem, and free calls to select countries and US territories $9.99
> 
> *Total*$9.99
> 
> * Other Charges*
> Broadcast TV charge $16.45 (this is what ABC, NBC, CBS, CW and Fox charge to be aired by Spectrum)
> 
> *Total* 16.45
> 
> *Taxes, Fees, and Charges*
> 
> State and local taxes $2.10
> 
> FCC admin fee $0.07
> 
> Franchise Fees $4.27
> 
> *Total* $6.88
> 
> 
> So yeah cable and internet here is pretty fucked up. The only reason most old people have is due to unfamiliarity with streaming. Folk my age range typically only have it if they have the extra income or can't find things they want elsewhere for cheaper. If you watch live sports streaming isn't really a better option as live sports packages on stuff like Hulu basically works out to cable prices.


Lol you crazy cut that cable and phone 😂 I can show you where to get crystal clear NBA and NFL for free lol HDMI cord it to your big screen 

I pay $90/month for just Internet, $14/month or whatever it is for Netflix


----------



## The Wood

Pentagon Senior said:


> Yes they have, very much so.
> 
> Yeah I'm not guna get drawn down the motor vehicle rabbit hole lol the point is none of that is relevant to wrestling viewer ratings on cable TV.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, that's a very obvious statement. If you have anything specific to wrestling ratings and cable TV that would be relevant here.
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody is going to disagree with you that Raw sucks. It's sucked for a long time as far as I understand. But it's also an accepted trend that cable viewership is dropping generally and regardless of quality. Like, it's so well accepted that it feels strange even discussing it here.
> 
> 
> 
> People DVR, people stream etc. You've said this yourself when it suits your argument and that's been pointed out to you already. Many of those 1.4m could still be watching via alternative means. They got 1.2m last week. Sure, some of those people didn't like it. That's not surprising. Expecting a near 100% retention rate, bearing in mind alternative viewing methods, is unrealistic.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not an exact science but of course you would scale back according to trends if you were analysing cable viewers now compared to the past. Why would you not lol. If we're ignoring such an obvious factor that has changed over time - I can tell you that AEW gets 100% more cable viewers than anyone else did in the 1920's 🤯
> 
> Look, this whole debate is speculative so we can't know for sure who's right and wrong. But I'm guna be honest - you're doing the same old twisting and reaching for things to fit your predetermined narrative of 'AEW bad'. Whilst it is a speculative topic I'd say it's clear that some people in this thread are at least sticking with logic and rationale whilst others are, less so. It's not a horse I need to keep flogging though, so I'll opt out.


It is relevant, lol. It’s a point about how people think and they make assumptions that might actually be more baseless than initially thought.

I don’t get your DVR/streaming point at all. Yeah, of course they do. That’s on top of cable viewership. I guess the idea here is that the viewers AEW loses on cable simply move to a different medium? Lol, okay. And 10 million people still watch Raw, they just watch it on Hulu. Prosper does the same thing where he alludes to the cable rating being just the tip of the iceberg when discussing the cable rating. Cool. That’s the same with...everything?

There’s no reason you cannot grow an audience. None. Zero. This is just another excuse when AEW doesn’t deliver.

No, you absolutely cannot take AEW’s rating, go back ten years, and scale it up. It doesn’t work like that. Just because more people were watching cable doesn’t mean more people would have watched AEW.

None of this is even saying “AEW bad.” That’s just a straw-man you’re propping up because it’s easier to make it sound like it’s coming from a mean place. Correlation does not equate to causation. The average amount of people watching cable does not mean that an individual, specific show cannot be doing well if it actually draws well. That’s the uncomfortable truth.


----------



## RapShepard

The Wood said:


> Good post. Should make for a good discussion:
> 
> Being new does mean you have to establish yourself, but it doesn’t mean you can’t. Especially now that we are into year two of Dynamite. This isn’t even a “new” show anymore. How many in the TV landscape would love to be doing episode #75 and still have people defending it as needing to find its feet. Episode #75 would be 150 hours of television you have to get something over.
> 
> Being fresh can also serve as an advantage. That’s why things get marketed as “NEW!” It can mean good. Check it out. Be one of the first. This is explosive content. This is important.
> 
> It’s basically the same here in Australia. But people aren’t cutting at the rate people think they are. What are there...75 million people with cable in the US. When cable viewers decline at a faster rate than people are cutting cable, I think you’ve got to turn inwards a little too. It can’t all just be the fault of technology changing. Not all of it.
> 
> Would I expect wrestling to decrease in viewership? Sure. There’s a period of time where people actually got cable _for_ wrestling though. And wrestling could justify not cutting cable.
> 
> The idea that good wrestling is going to lose out on viewers just because people are cutting cable is creating a causal link where there doesn’t actually need to be one — not definitely — and it’s kind of a defeatist smokescreen to try and take the onus off content to be better.
> 
> 1. Because 1.8 million is about what a shitty 3 hour show that people apparently crave an alternative to gets. A large reason AEW exists is because they believe in this dissatisfied and disenfranchised fan. If they were doing with 2 hours what Raw was doing with a 3rd bringing them down, I’d call that good. There is an audience of that many people got even shit wrestling.
> 
> 2. I’m not alleging that they aren’t real. I just don’t think this is how advertisers go about collating their information anymore. I’ve used the example of the difference between an 18 year old black kid in San Fransisco and a 49 year old white trucker in Mobile. Why would an advertiser see these customers as being similar? They both fit that “key demo.” Couldn’t be more different. And who has that much disposable income in 2021? I’d say the balance of wealth shifted to older generations, by and large.
> 
> Anytime you look up Nielsen, you often see them talking about attracting audiences based on ethnicity or sexuality instead of age. It’s kind of an archaic and arbitrary way to identify someone’s culture in 2021.
> 
> 3. I’m not denying that streaming isn’t a thing. It’s definitely the future, and it’s why any smart content creator is looking to get involved there. Getting a deal with Netflix would be golden, and it an AEW pulled it off, it’d probably be the biggest boon to them they’ve ever experienced. But that doesn’t mean that cable is completely dead yet. Some of those shows did 2 million, 3 million viewers. Those audiences _are still possible_, whether that can be perceived by the modern wrestling fan at not.
> 
> By the way, I’m willing to bet there are more shows that did more than 1.2 million viewers that weren’t listed by that demo that would knock AEW down even further for the night, and even for the week.
> 
> Let’s not pretend that this is the best that either show could do with the landscape the way it is. Let’s not just settle on this number being “normal” because there hasn’t been an alternative to the WWE for over 20 years. Good wrestling — a hot product — can do as well as just about everything else on cable. Just because it doesn’t get 9 million viewers anymore, doesn’t mean it can’t do better than 1.2.


But it's still much newer than what you're comparing it to. Doesn't mean that it can't reach that level just perspective. Something's take time to pop off look at breaking bad. 

As far as the other thing yeah saying wrestling can't grow is self defeatist. But ignoring that all cable is down in viewership and saying "well wrestling used to make people buy cable" doesn't really address the issue. It's like saying "artist used to make people buy their CD" while wilfully ignoring the many other ways to consume music these days. 

And you forget these advertising agencies get more thorough breakdowns on the demos. Knowing what shows 20 something year old black males are watching and what 40 something white females are watching allows you to place ads accordingly. Knowing the level of income of the viewers also allows them to place ads accordingly. 

Finally setting the industry leader as the standard for good is a recipe for failure. It's like judging sales for a shooter based on whether they match Call of Duty sales.


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> Lol you crazy cut that cable and phone  I can show you where to get crystal clear NBA and NFL for free lol HDMI cord it to your big screen
> 
> I pay $90/month for just Internet, $14/month or whatever it is for Netflix


It's the ease of use for me for why I'm unlikely to switch. I hate dealing with the hassle of all of that. I might try it again one day, but as of now it's a luxury I'll take. Though I get why folk cut that shit lol.


----------



## Geert Wilders

RapShepard said:


> Yup that much quick break down my last bill was $170.27
> 
> *$170.27*
> Spectrum Cable $75.95
> Internet Service $60.99
> Phone Service $9.99
> Other Charges $16.45
> Taxes $6.89
> 
> Further breakdown
> 
> *Spectrum TV*
> Spectrum TV select (basic tv and extended basic tv) $73.99 this is their lowest package, no premium channel with tons of normal TV channels that are missing.
> 
> Spectrum Receivers 4 at $7.99 each for $31.96 (tbf to them could cut those Receivers by using smart tvs, over the top devices, and game consoles. But prefer not overloading the wifi)
> 
> Promotional discount I got by threatening to go to dish $30
> 
> 
> *Total*$75.95
> 
> * Internet Services *
> 
> Spectrum internet $74.99
> 
> Bundle discount $9.99
> 
> Wifi Service $5.00
> 
> Promotional discount I got by threatening to go to dish $10
> 
> *Total* 60.99
> 
> 
> * Spectrum Voice *
> 
> Basic phone with unlimited long distance, modem, and free calls to select countries and US territories $9.99
> 
> *Total*$9.99
> 
> * Other Charges*
> Broadcast TV charge $16.45 (this is what ABC, NBC, CBS, CW and Fox charge to be aired by Spectrum)
> 
> *Total* 16.45
> 
> *Taxes, Fees, and Charges*
> 
> State and local taxes $2.10
> 
> FCC admin fee $0.07
> 
> Franchise Fees $4.27
> 
> *Total* $6.88
> 
> 
> So yeah cable and internet here is pretty fucked up. The only reason most old people have is due to unfamiliarity with streaming. Folk my age range typically only have it if they have the extra income or can't find things they want elsewhere for cheaper. If you watch live sports streaming isn't really a better option as live sports packages on stuff like Hulu basically works out to cable prices.


This is day-light robbery.


----------



## omaroo

IPTV is way forward for sure.

All these TV companies here like sky and BT and robbing so and sos.

IPTV quality is great and has everything imaginable.

Then you have plex for VOD which is awesome.

Off topic my apologies btw.


----------



## VIP86

it would be unfair if this episode lost viewers
compared to last week's show, this week was better
hopefully at least they'll stay at the 1.2 mark
the work that the wrestlers have done this week deserves it


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

A PG Attitude said:


> I pay £24.20 a month for broadband internet and £50 a year to an IPTV provider that gives me everything thats on streaming services plus all British and American channels and all sports ppvs for free on an app on firestick. It blows my mind that people are still letting themselves be ripped off by cable companies in this day and age.


because if everybody did it, there would be no cable companies?


----------



## rich110991

It was a great show. They don’t deserve to lose viewers but anything over 1 mil is good in my opinion.


----------



## The Wood

RapShepard said:


> But it's still much newer than what you're comparing it to. Doesn't mean that it can't reach that level just perspective. Something's take time to pop off look at breaking bad.
> 
> As far as the other thing yeah saying wrestling can't grow is self defeatist. But ignoring that all cable is down in viewership and saying "well wrestling used to make people buy cable" doesn't really address the issue. It's like saying "artist used to make people buy their CD" while wilfully ignoring the many other ways to consume music these days.
> 
> *And you forget these advertising agencies get more thorough breakdowns on the demos. Knowing what shows 20 something year old black males are watching and what 40 something white females are watching allows you to place ads accordingly. Knowing the level of income of the viewers also allows them to place ads accordingly.*
> 
> Finally setting the industry leader as the standard for good is a recipe for failure. It's like judging sales for a shooter based on whether they match Call of Duty sales.


It’s true that some things take time. I don’t know the full story of Breaking Bad and when it took off. I’m not sure there were as many episodes of Breaking Bad as there have been Dymamite. But yeah, sometimes things might take a while to reach an audience. This isn’t always the case though, and I’d argue that it’s probably better to have the element of freshness to you in television.

I’m not ignoring that cable is down in viewership so much as challenging what that means. I don’t think it means that a show NEEDS to be doing a number that is, say, below 1 million viewers. Call that great, call it a day. I also don’t think it’s perfect logic to look at cable generally do less viewers, take a number from yesteryear, scale that back and call it an amazing goal.

I don’t think I am ignoring the changes in technology. I get what you’re going with there, but what I’m saying is more like “artists used to sell so many units — just because people aren’t buying as many CDs doesn’t mean the industry still can’t gross as much off music.” Or that there are fewer people who listen to music.

The bolded part has been EXACTLY my sentiments about demos from the start. It’s why getting so hung up on them is very premature. And why posters who treat them like power levels, or wrestlers for that matter (Jericho is probably the worst offender of this), are missing the full story.

I agree that setting the industry leader as a marker for what is good could potentially be problematic. Overall, you make really good points, but I think this might be the one I like post. I’d just say that I think wrestling provides a different set of circumstances than video games right now. I think the argument could be made that they are leading by default, and aren’t exactly improving on their domestic popularity year after year. Creates a genuine opening for an alternative.


----------



## Chan Hung

VIP86 said:


> it would be unfair if this episode lost viewers
> compared to last week's show, this week was better
> hopefully at least they'll stay at the 1.2 mark
> the work that the wrestlers have done this week deserves it


I mean NXT was mostly pure shit on Tuesday but they went up just this week in the ratings, just saying.


----------



## izhack111

Ratings in 1 hour?


----------



## El Hammerstone

izhack111 said:


> Ratings in 1 hour?


They usually come in at 4 ET, yes.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

LifeInCattleClass said:


> because if everybody did it, there would be no cable companies?


You say that like it’s a bad thing.

Doesn’t matter ... if streaming services end up putting cable out of business, they will very soon thereafter start supplementing their revenue with commercials. Cables biggest selling point when it first came out, besides offering many more options than broadcast, was being commercial-free. Look where they are now - almost to the point where there’s more commercial than show. Cable sucks. TV sucks. Everything sucks.


----------



## The Wood

Streaming is probably going to start blobbing together like cable. You’ll start getting Disney+, ESPN+ and Discovery+ in packages. That sort of thing. Peacock, WWE Network, HBO Max together, etc.


----------



## Millennial

Ratings are probably a bit lower this week. Hopefully still above a million.


----------



## 3venflow

Dynamite did a 1.104 rating with 0.37 in the key demo.

Number two on cable behind only Challenge season finale.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Good on AEW staying over a million

Edit: I actually read the number as 1.04 at first, somehow missing the second 1, so even better than I thought.


----------



## Millennial

Damn that's solid. It's a great time to be an AEW fan.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Good


----------



## Dark Emperor

Very good hold in viewership.


----------



## Prosper

Good shit AEW, very slight drop from last week. Nice that they are still over a milli. Hopefully this is the new norm.

Last night was the final Challenge episode, so they will most likely start ranking #1 from now on.

I think I won the ratings game this week haha


----------



## ShadowCounter

Not bad and that number is only gonna go up after the Challenge is done in 2 weeks.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Prosper said:


> Last night was the final Challenge episode, so they will most likely start ranking #1 from now on.


Nope. 2 weeks of reunion garbage left.


----------



## Outlaw91




----------



## Millennial

Wtf is challenge? Reminds me of a crappy game show channel we have over here in the UK.


----------



## Prosper

ShadowCounter said:


> Nope. 2 weeks of reunion garbage left.


Really? Ugh lol 

I wanna see them in that #1 spot


----------



## RapShepard

Back to back million pluses. That's what 6 times they've done that?


----------



## Prosper

Millennial said:


> Wtf is challenge? Reminds me of a crappy game show channel we have over here in the UK.


Its like a reality competition series with like 10-15 teams, like treasure hunts and physical sports type stuff, it does kind of draw you in not gonna lie.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Prosper said:


> Really? Ugh lol
> 
> I wanna see them in that #1 spot


You will soon enough. Can't believe the Challenge got a 0.72 in Females 18-49 last night. Why?


----------



## rbl85

ShadowCounter said:


> Nope. 2 weeks of *reunion *garbage left.


What ?


----------



## 3venflow

Didn't realise Challenge still had two more weeks, but this week was the second part of the finals of the competition itself right?

Anyway, Dynamite this week was their fourth most watched episode.

1. 10/02/2019 (debut show) - 1,409,000
2. 04/14/2021 - 1,219,000
3. 10/09/2019 - 1,140,000
4. 04/21/2021 - 1,104,000
5. 09/09/2020 - 1,016,000

As for the key demo, it was also down on last week but besides that, better than any week since 12/30/20 (Brodie Lee memorial).

Dynamite was number one on cable in males aged 18-49. Challenge dominated the females 18-49 demo with a 0.72 so you'd hope AEW can grab some of those soon.


----------



## Dizzie

Not bad.

It's early days for them unopposed, i think 2 months down the line unopposed will give a better marker of where they are at with their product, it may go under 1 million or could creep around 1.3, who knows? I think the blood and guts episode could have a lot of influence on if they decrease or increase going forward as I expect that episode to have the most eyes on the product since probably the first episode.


----------



## rbl85

ShadowCounter said:


> You will soon enough. Can't believe the Challenge got a 0.72 in Females 18-49 last night. Why?


Well it was the "last" episode, meaning it was last night that we knew who won the game.


----------



## Prosper

ShadowCounter said:


> You will soon enough. Can't believe the Challenge got a 0.72 in Females 18-49 last night. Why?


Women absolutely love reality TV lol 

Real Housewives, Jersey Shore, Keeping Up with the Kardashians, etc


----------



## rbl85

3venflow said:


> Didn't realise Challenge still had two more weeks, but this week was the second part of the finals of the competition itself right?
> 
> Anyway, Dynamite this week was their fourth most watched episode.
> 
> 1. 10/02/2019 (debut show) - 1,409,000
> 2. 04/14/2021 - 1,219,000
> 3. 10/09/2019 - 1,140,000
> 4. 04/21/2021 - 1,104,000
> 5. 09/09/2020 - 1,016,000
> 
> As for the key demo, it was also down on last week but besides that, better than any week since 12/30/20 (Brodie Lee memorial).
> 
> Dynamite was number one on cable in males aged 18-49. Challenge dominated the females 18-49 demo with a 0.72 so you'd hope AEW can grab some of those soon.


If you look the change with last week ratings, the demos who are down for AEW are up for Challenge


----------



## Geert Wilders

Last weeks show did not deserve the rating it got. This show deserved last weeks rating.

However, what anticipation did they build this week to keep fans coming back next week?


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Reggie Dunlop said:


> You say that like it’s a bad thing.
> 
> Doesn’t matter ... if streaming services end up putting cable out of business, they will very soon thereafter start supplementing their revenue with commercials. Cables biggest selling point when it first came out, besides offering many more options than broadcast, was being commercial-free. Look where they are now - almost to the point where there’s more commercial than show. Cable sucks. TV sucks. Everything sucks.


The cable companies are the ones building the streaming though / streaming services are not cheap to build

in the end, its just an animal with a different skin - the one forces you to take bundles of channels for a sub, the other one forces you to pay a small amount per app

i am subbed to 6 apps - its = to a cable fee in the end


----------



## rbl85

Geert Wilders said:


> Last weeks show did not deserve the rating it got. This show deserved last weeks rating.
> 
> However, what anticipation did they build this week to keep fans coming back next week?


Next week episode is going to be "made" around Inner circle and Pinnacle.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Dynamite did a 1.104 rating with 0.37 in the key demo.
> 
> Number two on cable behind only Challenge season finale.
> 
> View attachment 100279


hey ‘the demo is crap’ guys.... did Challenge win? Or did AEW beat them?


----------



## ShadowCounter

rbl85 said:


> Well it was the "last" episode, meaning it was last night that we knew who won the game.


Correct. Not sure how reunion eps do for that show but I would imagine their rating will fall some. That should benefit AEW.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ShadowCounter said:


> Nope. 2 weeks of reunion garbage left.


those get lower ratings - night 2 of the final was the big one


----------



## Prosper

Geert Wilders said:


> Last weeks show did not deserve the rating it got. This show deserved last weeks rating.
> 
> However, what anticipation did they build this week to keep fans coming back next week?


IC/Pinnacle, Moxley and Kingston still on the hunt after ramming their truck into the trailer, Brian Cage vs Hangman Page, the visual of Omega holding all the gold


----------



## PavelGaborik

Another nice rating. 

This week's show was superior to last week's so hopefully they can build on it


----------



## Alright_Mate

Nice to see them back up last week’s rating, good stuff 👍🏻


----------



## NXT Only

Amazing again. Like we said. Company is on fire. Glad the core fans are enjoying the product and the numbers will help the growth.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Prosper said:


> IC/Pinnacle, Moxley and Kingston still on the hunt after ramming their truck into the trailer, Brian Cage vs Hangman Page, the visual of Omega holding all the gold


I'd say the anticipation is for Moxley and Kingston definitely.
Did Cage and Hangman have a promo with each other to promote next week? I don't remember this. 
And I don't remember them promoting IMPACT, but then I might be wrong.


----------



## Prosper

Geert Wilders said:


> I'd say the anticipation is for Moxley and Kingston definitely.
> Did Cage and Hangman have a promo with each other to promote next week? I don't remember this.
> And I don't remember them promoting IMPACT, but then I might be wrong.


No Cage/Hangman promo but there was a beatdown and a match announcement during the show, I think that's enough. Cage/Hangman should be a great main event with no flips which everyone shouts to the rooftops about being a detriment. 

They talked about the Omega/Swann match lightly and aired a commercial, but yeah there wasn't enough promotion over the course of the last 4 weeks. I think most AEW fans know what's going down though.


----------



## Geert Wilders

I forgot about Archer, Sting, Sky and Ethan dynamic. I anticipate that, I guess.


----------



## VIP86

not happy with this
a better show than last week gets less viewers, not fair for the wrestlers


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ps> demo being down is not great - they should average over 0.4 now IMO

next week it should be up again


----------



## ProjectGargano

Yeah, they lost some Tyson viewers. Great rating, tho.


----------



## taker1986

I think it shows how far AEW are coming along when 1.1 million and .37 in demo is seen as slightly dissappointing. TNT will be over the moon with how AEW are doing and they could soon be No1 highest rating show on Wednesday night.


----------



## 3venflow

Saw this from the WWE Q1 highlights. It shows that cable TV ratings continue to drop and AEW was in line with that before NXT moved. So now AEW has managed to go above the average primetime number on the top cable networks. Tony Khan will have dollar signs in his eyes for the next deal.


----------



## Dr. Middy

A little drop, but still a damn good number. Nice to see them keep the over 1 million number with the high demo. Keep up the momentum!



The Wood said:


> Streaming is probably going to start blobbing together like cable. You’ll start getting Disney+, ESPN+ and Discovery+ in packages. That sort of thing. Peacock, WWE Network, HBO Max together, etc.


Yep, I've said this for like countless years actually haha. There are just too many services for people to keep track of, so they'll start making those types of packages to entice people more and make it easier. We're just gonna end up with Cable 2.0 electric boogaloo. 

You even see it starting already, with Disney+ and ESPN+ as a package.


----------



## rich110991

Shame about the drop as the show was better this week, but still a good result.


----------



## qntntgood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> hey ‘the demo is crap’ guys.... did Challenge win? Or did AEW beat them?


This week ratings is interest ING because awhile back, Russo and Glenn Gilberty estimated that there where 1.2 million fans watching on Wednesday night.and if both show were to move to different night,we would see aew hold a slight edge over nxt but the numbers wouldn't increase. because it's basically the same fans to begin with,and nxt's slight increase and aew slight decrease.they may have been proven right.


----------



## qntntgood

3venflow said:


> Saw this from the WWE Q1 highlights. It shows that cable TV ratings continue to drop and AEW was in line with that before NXT moved. So now AEW has managed to go above the average primetime number on the top cable networks. Tony Khan will have dollar signs in his eyes for the next deal.
> 
> View attachment 100283


They said the same thing about Dixie Carter, and impact was drawing two million.


----------



## Chan Hung

So AEW went down, NXT went up? Weird, AEW was the better show to be honest of the two this week


----------



## Not Lying

I think it's great numbers but they should start using some more established names like Moxley/Cody more in the main event in solo.
Hardy still has name value and he proved it vs Darby, ratings slitghly higher last week.


----------



## yeahright2

Okay, we got the results you´ve all been waiting for 
The prediction game results are in;
AEW Ratings prediction game
Quite a few came close this week, a lot of predictions above 1 million.. Personally I thought this card lacked top stars, and they did suffer a little drop from last week, so that kinda supports my opinion. But good on them, let´s hope they continue.


----------



## TD Stinger

Down a 100k but still in the million territory which is good. Demo's also down but still good enough for #2 on the night. Hopefully this 1.1 range becomes the norm for them.


----------



## sideon

TD Stinger said:


> Down a 100k but still in the million territory which is good. Demo's also down but still good enough for #2 on the night. Hopefully this 1.1 range becomes the norm for them.


It' going to be a month at the earliest before we can get a gauge on where their ratings are going to be going forward. I could see them maintaining the the 1.1-1.2mil number, but I could also see them averaging 900k by the end of June.


3venflow said:


> Saw this from the WWE Q1 highlights. It shows that cable TV ratings continue to drop and AEW was in line with that before NXT moved. So now AEW has managed to go above the average primetime number on the top cable networks. Tony Khan will have dollar signs in his eyes for the next deal.
> 
> View attachment 100283


He can have all the dollar signs he wants, but unless he can get them more to the RAW third hour number then it won't matter.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

I think many are missing the fact that AEW has been the second most watched show on cable the past 2 weeks ..smacking struggles on free tv


----------



## taker1986

The Definition of Technician said:


> I think it's great numbers but they should start using some more established names like Moxley/Cody more in the main event in solo.
> Hardy still has name value and he proved it vs Darby, ratings slitghly higher last week.


I think it's super impressive that they managed this number without the need of using Mox and Cody. This shows that they can rely on their homegrown stars. Yesterday's main event was Allin/Jungle Boy and opened with Hangman/Starks.


----------



## iarwain

I like that they stayed above a million, don't like that the number dropped from last week. This is a new era, with them running unopposed. They need to be taking advantage of that, and not be falling off.


----------



## omaroo

Very good rating albeit bit down from last week. 

Thing is if they showcase their best talents and not people like QT, Dustin etc and also get more consistent with their booking then no reason why they can stay at 1.1-1.3 range.

But i do think some weeks they may fall below 1 million not a big issue if that happens.

Here's hoping blood and guts episode gets a strong rating. Hope the momentum can keep going for them.


----------



## yeahright2

omaroo said:


> Very good rating albeit bit down from last week.
> 
> Thing is if they showcase their best talents and not people like QT, Dustin etc and also get more consistent with their booking then no reason why they can stay at 1.1-1.3 range.
> 
> But i do think some weeks they may fall below 1 million not a big issue if that happens.
> 
> Here's hoping blood and guts episode gets a strong rating. Hope the momentum can keep going for them.


Dustin is one of their best talents  QT can jump off a cliff though..


----------



## Randy Lahey

When the Challenge is over, AEW will be #1 on Weds and be averaging 1.3 mils with a 0.45+ demo


----------



## Klitschko

Good rating.


----------



## rbl85

Randy Lahey said:


> When the Challenge is over, AEW will be #1 on Weds and be averaging 1.3 mils with a 0.45+ demo


Now the question is, what will replace The Challenge ?


----------



## omaroo

Whatever this challenge is its quite big.

When is it returning for the new season?


----------



## rbl85

omaroo said:


> Whatever this challenge is its quite big.
> 
> When is it returning for the new season?


Next season could start before the end of the year


----------



## omaroo

Oh OK.

So AEW has a good chance to be the number 1 show for most weeks on Wednesdays with it not aorund.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

VIP86 said:


> people will look for anything to make Tony Khan look more successful
> 
> if this week's rating suddenly made Tony Khan look like a good booker
> then by the same logic, Vince McMahon must be a genius booker since he gets better ratings, right ??
> 
> the sooner people realise that Tony Khan is an idiot in terms of booking just like Vince McMahon
> the better for the future of AEW
> praising Tony Khan's inept booking ability is actually very damaging for AEW's future
> 
> AEW badly needs a Booker, and neither Tony Khan or his EVPs are remotely suitable for this position


The last month or more the shows have been much better quality alot of people have noticed.


----------



## DaSlacker

omaroo said:


> Whatever this challenge is its quite big.
> 
> When is it returning for the new season?


Runs two seasons per year, of 18 episodes each, on average.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

IronMan8 said:


> There is a benefit to live viewership, but in terms of the total package for a new, mega TV deal, TNT would not be looking at this week’s number as an upwards trend that is expected to continue rising.
> 
> What I mean is the total viewers has not increased in nearly 2 years, so this week’s figure is unlikely to inspire TNT to pay for the potential of exploding growth moving forward.
> 
> To really command a mega TV deal, AEW will need to demonstrate an upward graph, not a stagnate or slightly falling one.
> 
> We’re yet to see any evidence that AEW’s audience has grown, we’ve only seen a shifting of how people consume their product depending on the situation.


If they can keep the average at a million that is a very good look for them even bischoff who has been critical has come out and said that 1million viewers in today's landscape is really good.



Bischoff said “It’s great that WWE decided to move over to Tuesday nights,” Bischoff said. “They thought that was a better spot for them for whatever reason, but they made the move, and it worked out for them. Obviously, it worked out for AEW. They delivered the second-highest rating in the history of their show. Now they’re up to 1.2 million, which is fantastic by today’s standards. Five years ago, it would’ve been a death sentence. By today’s standards, that’s damn good and good for them. It’s growth; they’re moving the needle. They’re moving their audience; that’s a great thing.”


----------



## omaroo

Multiple seasons a year must be a popular show lol.


----------



## Chan Hung

Next week will be worse i predict. The card advertised was quite shit for next week.


----------



## Purple Haze

Keeping it above 1 million is already a good result, i expect around 1.0 million next week.


----------



## Klitschko

I still can't believe they are dragging this Omega/Moxley feud out until DON probably.


----------



## omaroo

Ye next week's card apart from the main event looks weak.

But they should still hit 1 million you would think.


----------



## rbl85

Chan Hung said:


> Next week will be worse i predict. The card advertised was quite shit for next week.


If you compare with this week.....for me it's close to 50/50

The parler for me will do better than the promo of the MJF and Jericho
Tag titles match is better than QT vs Gunn
Penta vs Cassidy would do better than Penta vs Trent
Page vs Cage will also do better than Page Stark

Darby will probably also have a match and you can be sure that Omega and Mox will appear

+ Britt will do something


----------



## qntntgood

Purple Haze said:


> Keeping it above 1 million is already a good result, i expect around 1.0 million next week.


Pretty soon nxt will a million, and will still get a million.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

qntntgood said:


> Pretty soon nxt will a million, and will still get a million.


Unopposed nxt still hasn't broken 900k lol


----------



## VIP86

$Dolladrew$ said:


> The last month or more the shows have been much better quality alot of people have noticed.


subjective


----------



## rbl85

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Unopposed nxt still hasn't broken 900k lol


No need to mock NXT.


----------



## Ger

VIP86 said:


> not happy with this
> a better show than last week gets less viewers, not fair for the wrestlers


I agree to that and I don't get why people are so extremly happy about that number. When I remember all the big words on WF 2 years ago about AEW will be doing so much better(!) than WWE or how great Dynamite would do without NXT, etc. 
As long it is about 1 million, I am fine with that but I don't see any revolutionary about that. I remember people on WF blamed WWE every time the ratings dropped and now suddenly 1.1M is a great number after 1,5 years AEW.

So we want Dynamite to go for 2 or 2.5 million or are we happy Dynamite doing a bit better, than the (development) third brand of WWE?


----------



## rbl85

Ger said:


> I agree to that and I don't get why people are so extremly happy about that number. When I remember all the big words on WF 2 years ago about AEW will be doing so much better(!) than WWE or how great Dynamite would do without NXT, etc.
> As long it is about 1 million, I am fine with that but I don't see any revolutionary about that. I remember people on WF blamed WWE every time the ratings dropped and now suddenly 1.1M is a great number after 1,5 years AEW.
> 
> *So we want Dynamite to go for 2 or 2.5 million* or are we happy Dynamite doing a bit better, than the (development) third brand of WWE?


A new wrestling show (even if it's perfect) will never do 2 or 2.5 million and if it does it's going to take way more than 1.5 years.

Also let's not forget that a show does not need 2 - 3 or 4 million viewers to be really successfull.


----------



## qntntgood

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Unopposed nxt still hasn't broken 900k lol


This week nxt increased and aew decreased,both have been sharing the same audience.wrestling as a whole has not grown in years,next week nxt will probably get 900k.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Damn, I underestimated them. Gotta give credit where it's due, that's a decent number. Hope they can keep it up.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Unopposed nxt still hasn't broken 900k lol


They'll likely get there soon enough though, for a WWE developmental brand it's definitely not the worst viewership.


----------



## shandcraig

Reading all these hilarious comments in here. Dam you guys need to get laid more often. Not saying some don't, just more for some lol. All fun in games!


----------



## $Dolladrew$

VIP86 said:


> subjective


Even some of the usual negative Nancy's on this site have made comments on the improvements. It's not perfect but definetly going the right direction.


----------



## thorn123

NXT moving had a bigger impact than I thought which is good.

Its a shame viewership dropped a little - was a good show. Hopefully that is not a trend downwards.

1 million seems like a good number for a tv show, but I am no expert.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

rbl85 said:


> A new wrestling show (even if it's perfect) will never do 2 or 2.5 million and if it does it's going to take way more than 1.5 years.
> 
> Also let's not forget that a show does not need 2 - 3 or 4 million viewers to be really successfull.


Fair play. But Tony is one Trevor Lawrence sized check to CM Punk away from making 1.5 the new 1.2 and cementing .4+ weekly. Now would be the time.


----------



## Ger

rbl85 said:


> A new wrestling show (even if it's perfect) will never do 2 or 2.5 million and if it does it's going to take way more than 1.5 years.
> 
> Also let's not forget that a show does not need 2 - 3 or 4 million viewers to be really successfull.


Nice excuses, sounds like giving up.
This show needs nothing to be "successful" then, because TK spents money for his hobby here anyway. It is not lke Dynamite needs to make more money first to grow, for example to buy more wrestlers or celebrities. TK already did.


----------



## omaroo

People still hoping for AEWs downfall lol. 

AEW is showing signs of growth and yes at times ratings may fluctuate but if they deliver good shows the audience will stay.

I watch WWE also but for me dynamite keeps me entertained and is the best weekly show despite certain issues that persist weekly.

1.5+ million won't happen consistently or very often for that matter. But I do see them hitting that number regularly in 12-18 months time. If its sooner than that all the better. But at the end of the day it will come down to how they present their stars and by that I mean their best talent and also as importantly their booking on a weekly basis.


----------



## Ger

omaroo said:


> People still hoping for AEWs downfall lol.
> 
> AEW is showing signs of growth and yes at times ratings may fluctuate but if they deliver good shows the audience will stay.
> 
> I watch WWE also but for me dynamite keeps me entertained and is the best weekly show despite certain issues that persist weekly.
> 
> 1.5+ million won't happen consistently or very often for that matter. But I do see them hitting that number regularly in 12-18 months time. If its sooner than that all the better. But at the end of the day it will come down to how they present their stars and by that I mean their best talent and also as importantly their booking on a weekly basis.


Nobody here was hoping for "the downfall of AEW". Come on. We had much writing on this board about AEW two years ago and obvisouly some people lowered their expectations meanwhile. This is totally fine. To bad, a few people try to sell the actual situation, like AEW had totally succeeded. If they like to, fine too. I am just not betraying myself. AEW didn't fulfill all the dreams written on this board two years ago. It seems back then, we evaluated the situation wrong.
At least you are still hoping for them to reach 1.5M regulary end of next year. That is at least a small goal and give you that. Some others here, while celebrating AEW doing so great, obvisouly already gave up on Dynamite getting any more viewers, so they wrote down some excuses already in advance.  If AEW seriously reaches a stable 1.5M next year, that would be at least something. I expected it to happen earlier, just to make that clear.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Although I'm not a fan of AEW, it's just not my cup of tea, I am genuinely happy to see it get good ratings. We all should want wrestling to be successful, I hope they're able to hold onto these ratings and capitalise on it and increase it. I reckon a million is the new norm for AEW.


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> hey ‘the demo is crap’ guys.... did Challenge win? Or did AEW beat them?


AEW beat Challenge but got smashed by things like Married at First Sight, Rachel Maddow and Hannity. That’s not really a trick question.

Not surprised the ratings are down. I predicted a 1.08, so I was off by about 20k. I’m interested to see what War Games does.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> Dustin is one of their best talents  QT can jump off a cliff though..


yet.... the ratings have gone up since they started featuring QT

are we seeing the era of Quality Tv Marshall? 



yes... i’m joking


----------



## Geert Wilders

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Although I'm not a fan of AEW, it's just not my cup of tea, I am genuinely happy to see it get good ratings. We all should want wrestling to be successful, I hope they're able to hold onto these ratings and capitalise on it and increase it. I reckon a million is the new norm for AEW.


I think it will drop again next week. Under 1 milli. They may get a million for Blood and Guts.


----------



## bdon

El Hammerstone said:


> Good on AEW staying over a million
> 
> Edit: I actually read the number as 1.04 at first, somehow missing the second 1, so even better than I thought.


Without Cody, Kenny, and Mox wrestling. Seems they may have been keeping their foot to the gas a bit to maintain separation with NXT, because this has been smart booking the last 2 weeks.


----------



## VIP86

Ger said:


> I agree to that and I don't get why people are so extremly happy about that number. When I remember all the big words on WF 2 years ago about AEW will be doing so much better(!) than WWE or how great Dynamite would do without NXT, etc.
> As long it is about 1 million, I am fine with that but I don't see any revolutionary about that. I remember people on WF blamed WWE every time the ratings dropped and now suddenly 1.1M is a great number after 1,5 years AEW.
> 
> So we want Dynamite to go for 2 or 2.5 million or are we happy Dynamite doing a bit better, than the (development) third brand of WWE?


people who keep saying that 900K or anything around 1 million is great and should be looked at as a major success
(just like when they were saying that 700K is good before NXT moved)
are just saying that because they don't want to see any negative fact or idea hovering around the company in general or around Tony Khan and the Elite specifically
(the fact being the inability to grow the audience)
so they deliberately set the bar so low for AEW, to try and act as if it's a major success for TK if AEW exceeded this low bar
just like when Dave Meltzer pulled the 500K expected viewers out of his ass without providing proof

it's a very obvious tactic, but because they are blinded by the worship of Tony Khan and the Elite
they think it's working in making people less judgmental about a negative point out of many

and the funniest thing about this is the fact that they call anybody who holds AEW to a higher standard, A "Hater"


----------



## VIP86

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Even some of the usual negative Nancy's on this site have made comments on the improvements. It's not perfect but definetly going the right direction.


again it's subjective
i happen to think that bad booking is not the right direction
just see what the bucks said in tvinsider interview
if that doesn't scream "we have no idea what we're doing booking Dynamite"
i don't know what else would

here is what they said.
question: How do you respond to the argument that there are too many groups or factions in AEW right now?

"Nick: New Japan Pro Wrestling has been booking factions for more than 40 years, and they’re still around. I see the argument, but I think North American fans have never seen this many at one time. They are used to one, two, or three stables in a company. It’s easier to book angles. It’s easy to get more people involved with different groups. If you’re not aligned in a stable, you’re alone, and that’s hard to book sometimes. That’s why we have a lot of factions. It has clearly worked."

these morons think putting everyone in a pointless faction is the way to go


----------



## Randy Lahey

VIP86 said:


> people who keep saying that 900K or anything around 1 million is great and should be looked at as a major success
> (just like when they were saying that 700K is good before NXT moved)
> are just saying that because they don't want to see any negative fact or idea hovering around the company in general or around Tony Khan and the Elite specifically
> (the fact being the inability to grow the audience)
> so they deliberately set the bar so low for AEW, to try and act as if it's a major success for TK if AEW exceeded this low bar
> just like when Dave Meltzer pulled the 500K expected viewers out of his ass without providing proof
> 
> it's a very obvious tactic, but because they are blinded by the worship of Tony Khan and the Elite
> they think it's working in making people less judgmental about a negative point out of many
> 
> and the funniest thing about this is the fact that they call anybody who holds AEW to a higher standard, A "Hater"


AEW will be the #1 show on Wed's nights. TNT pays them a fraction of what USA pays for Raw. Anyone arguing AEW isn't a tremendous success is an idiot.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Purple Haze said:


> Keeping it above 1 million is already a good result, i expect around 1.0 million next week.


Their demos really haven't gone up much, so clearly the 1 million viewers they get per week now are old people that used to watch NXT. But, I think when The Challenge ends its run, you'll see AEW really start picking up in demos. The Challenge brings in a ton of female viewers, which is the only segment AEW is missing.

AEW building a ton of momentum now, and clearly it's a show meant for the young demo that advertises want. It's why they have been a top 5 show since their inception, while only old people watched NXT.


----------



## VIP86

Randy Lahey said:


> AEW will be the #1 show on Wed's nights.


i certainly hope so
but hopefully not with this inept booking


Randy Lahey said:


> TNT pays them a fraction of what USA pays for Raw.


because they don't have the same name recognition like WWE


Randy Lahey said:


> Anyone arguing AEW isn't a tremendous success is an idiot.


all signs say that AEW is successful financially
but also all signs say that they are idiots in terms of booking
because TK and the Elite are not bookers


----------



## Ger

VIP86 said:


> all signs say that AEW is successful financially
> but also all signs say that they are idiots in terms of booking
> because TK and the Elite are not bookers


I don't mind it being financially successful or not right now, because TK pays for that anyway. Also you never really will find out, as long the patron and the owner (and the manager) are the same person.  I know that from my club, where we had the same situation. I highly doubt Jericho goes backstage and interrogates TK about that. 
Two years ago we were aiming for AEW having more viewers than the "best" WWE program. (Plz don't try to sell the demo, that would be better as well then.) With less friendly words.  At that point it will be much easier for TK to retire and let it run financially on his own.


----------



## The Wood

VIP86 said:


> people who keep saying that 900K or anything around 1 million is great and should be looked at as a major success
> (just like when they were saying that 700K is good before NXT moved)
> are just saying that because they don't want to see any negative fact or idea hovering around the company in general or around Tony Khan and the Elite specifically
> (the fact being the inability to grow the audience)
> so they deliberately set the bar so low for AEW, to try and act as if it's a major success for TK if AEW exceeded this low bar
> just like when Dave Meltzer pulled the 500K expected viewers out of his ass without providing proof
> 
> it's a very obvious tactic, but because they are blinded by the worship of Tony Khan and the Elite
> they think it's working in making people less judgmental about a negative point out of many
> 
> and the funniest thing about this is the fact that they call anybody who holds AEW to a higher standard, A "Hater"


Good post. Clearing low hurdles has definitely been a thing since this all started.


----------



## MarkOfAllMarks

This isn't 2005. TV ratings on everything are down across the board because more and more people are cutting cable and just watching streaming services. You have to keep that in mind. Live cable TV just doesn't draw like it used to. That being said, having over 1 million viewers in 2021 during a global pandemic is a still incredibly impressive number. It's among the highest rated shows on television and the key demographic. To say AEW hasn't been a success would be foolish. This is not a low bar. This a wrestling company that doesn't have a 50 plus year history, that's just starting out less than 3 years old.


----------



## The Wood

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> This isn't 2005. TV ratings on everything are down across the board because more and more people are cutting cable and just watching streaming services. You have to keep that in mind. Live cable TV just doesn't draw like it used to. That being said, having over 1 million viewers in 2021 during a global pandemic is a still incredibly impressive number. It's among the highest rated shows on television and the key demographic. To say AEW hasn't been a success would be foolish. This is not a low bar. This a wrestling company that doesn't have a 50 plus year history, that's just starting out less than 3 years old.


This is the excuse. It doesn’t hold up to scrutiny though. Plenty of shows do higher ratings than AEW — including other bad wrestling. Cable cutting is a thing, but it’s also still in millions upon millions of homes.


----------



## MarkOfAllMarks

The Wood said:


> This is the excuse. It doesn’t hold up to scrutiny though. Plenty of shows do higher ratings than AEW — including other bad wrestling. Cable cutting is a thing, but it’s also still in millions upon millions of homes.


The only other wrestling shows that do better than AEW is RAW and SmackDown and that's mainly because WWE has a loyal hardcore fanbase that they have built up over decades. It's a more well known established entity. It has nothing to do with the quality of the shows at all. WWE has been absolute trash for years but they always have that core audience that still watches that shit. AEW doesn't have the luxury of being an established brand with a 50 year history. It's in it's infancy. The fact that they are able to draw over a million is still impressive. I'm sure they are more than happy with that. Of course there is more room to grow but to expect them to get 5 million viewers in less than 3 years of the company starting is having wildly unrealistic expectations.


----------



## Punkhead

Quarter hour ratings: (taken from Reddit)

Q1 - 1,192,000 viewers and 485,000 demo - Adam Page vs. Ricky Starks and the post-match
Q2 - 1,124,000 viewers and 476,000 demo - Penta vs. Trent
Q3 - 1,099,000 viewers and 476,000 demo - Pinnacle interview, the Tay Conti-Hikaru Shida video package
Q4 - 1,174,000 viewers and 512,000 demo - Shida vs. Conti
Q5 - 1,094,000 viewers and 493,000 demo - Inner Circle promo and Billy Gunn vs. QT Marshall
Q6 - 1,063,000 viewers and 494,000 demo - Elite in the trailer and Jon Moxley & Eddie Kingston
Q7 - 1,038,000 viewers and 473,000 demo - Christian Cage vs. Hobbs
Q8 - 1,050,000 viewers and 470,000 demo - Darby Allin vs. Jungle Boy

Well done, Shida vs Conti, gaining viewers, it was the match of the night for me.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Ger said:


> I don't mind it being financially successful or not right now, because TK pays for that anyway. Also you never really will find out, as long the patron and the owner (and the manager) are the same person.  I know that from my club, where we had the same situation. I highly doubt Jericho goes backstage and interrogates TK about that.
> Two years ago we were aiming for AEW having more viewers than the "best" WWE program. (Plz don't try to sell the demo, that would be better as well then.) With less friendly words.  At that point it will be much easier for TK to retire and let it run financially on his own.


Who was? No one in their right mind expected them to do even a 1/3rd of what Raw did. It will take decades to get to WWEs level.


----------



## The Wood

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> The only other wrestling shows that do better than AEW is RAW and SmackDown and that's mainly because WWE has a loyal hardcore fanbase that they have built up over decades. It's a more well known established entity. It has nothing to do with the quality of the shows at all. WWE has been absolute trash for years but they always have that core audience that still watches that shit. AEW doesn't have the luxury of being an established brand with a 50 year history. It's in it's infancy. The fact that they are able to draw over a million is still impressive. I'm sure they are more than happy with that. Of course there is more room to grow but to expect them to get 5 million viewers in less than 3 years of the company starting is having wildly unrealistic expectations.


That’s another myth. It can’t just be that people prefer WWE? That seems more in-line with Occam’s razor. After watching AEW, SmackDown is like a refreshing glass of water. Don’t know about Raw, but the highlights from it were entirely watchable the other week, haha.

The idea that shows need to build up a fan-base and that older shirts inherently have one is a fallacious one, in my opinion. Otherwise, how could any other crime show ever touch Law & Order? Give up now.

Also, AEW didn’t earn its audience. It bought in with the TNT deal. I believe other wrestling with an equally as accessible platform could and would do better. Like Raw.


----------



## Jaxon

am I looking to much into the fact that Q3 and Q5 dropped and these are the teams that will be in the big blood and guts?


----------



## DammitChrist

Apparently, promos tend to struggle more with maintaining the viewership.

Edit:

I enjoyed those major promos/segments though.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW appeals to an audience who like the in-ring aspect, so the actual wrestling does tend to draw more than the segments. Not exclusively though, for example the wedding did the best QH of the show it was on. But it's a fan base that appreciates the athletic competition and freedom given to wrestlers, which is part of how they sell themselves as an alternative.

The QHs throughout the show were pretty consistent, never dropping below a million. Look at the key demo for Shida vs. Conti though, that stood out for me. Hour two lost some momentum with a slow decline, but went back up a little for the main event (although not the demo, a surprise with Darby in there). I'm glad over a million got to see such a match. Four weeks ago, it might have been 800,000.


----------



## 3venflow

From PWTorch on last week's Dynamite:

"Last week’s 1.219 million grew after three days to 1.375 million. That increase of 156,000 is not too out of line with the prior weeks increases. The previous week it increased 154,000. The week before that, it grew 216,000. The week before that, 166,000. That’s good news for AEW because it means new fans are watching rather than just the same poll of viewers merely time-shifting from delayed viewing to live viewing. That’s a bigger potential customer base for pay-per-views and selling live event tickets and merchandise."


----------



## Jaxon

thanks for the responses, I don't follow the numbers or know they mean tbh, just seen that they dropped in them Qs. Another good number though, hopefully it continues.


----------



## Geert Wilders

3venflow said:


> AEW appeals to an audience who like the in-ring aspect, so the actual wrestling does tend to draw more than the segments. Not exclusively though, for example the wedding did the best QH of the show it was on. But it's a fan base that appreciates the athletic competition and freedom given to wrestlers, which is part of how they sell themselves as an alternative.
> 
> The QHs throughout the show were pretty consistent, never dropping below a million. Look at the key demo for Shida vs. Conti though, that stood out for me. Hour two lost some momentum with a slow decline, but went back up a little for the main event (although not the demo, a surprise with Darby in there). I'm glad over a million got to see such a match. Four weeks ago, it might have been 800,000.


The problem is that reviewing quarter ratings results in inaccurate conclusions. There are far too many confounding factors that would lead to differences in numbers. For example:
1. people channel changing - what they were watching was boring or the commercial break started.
2. people who hear about something they are interested in and miss the end of it.
3. getting interrupted to eat dinner or any other genuine reason.

There is too much importance placed on ratings. I cannot wait for RAW and SD to go fully Peacock exclusive. Nothing to be discussed then.


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> Apparently, promos tend to struggle more with maintaining the viewership.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> I enjoyed those major promos/segments though.


this is a mystery to me
i enjoy good promos as much as good matches
maybe because we are more passionate wrestling fans (in spite of the differences) we understand pro wrestling promos and it's easier for us to be invested in it than casual fans


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

We’ll see how well pinnacle/inner circle segment does next week. The wrestling itself does draw more with most of the current audience of the show, but if they want to grow the audience they do need to cut back on the in ring action imo and focus more on stories/characters/promos (obviously GOOD versions of these, as if they’re bad it won’t help anything). Like the Moxley/Kingston segment was cool, but it would have been so much better if they started the show with their return, weapons in hand, looking to fuck up The Elite. You build that up over the course in 1 or 2 other backstage segments where they maybe beat the crap out of some enhancement talents, and then near the end of the show we get the segment that we got, but maybe modified a bit on The Elite’s end to match the story of Mox and Kingston coming after them. Then you basically do the segment as is, then do the TNT title main event.

Like the thing with a lot of the segments is there’s not much build up to the pay off. No stories built throughout the night. They need to get more into the habit of doing that if they want to have a chance of building a bigger audience. I doubt they’ll ever hit 1.5 million with the way they currently do things, except maybe for a BIG Dynamite match. The thing is though, you can’t do big Dynamite matches every week, or they just won’t be big anymore.

One thing that is a bit concerning with regards to the breakdown is they started near where they did last week (1.9 million), but rather than staying consistent throughout the show, and even hitting 1.35 by middle, then ending higher than they started... this week they just kinda dropped big time. Conti/Shida got the viewers back, but not even the main event did well. Losing 150k viewers from start of show isn’t exactly great. Darby also was in an identical spot and didn’t perform as well. Matt Hardy was likely the difference maker.

However, at least they stayed about 1 million during all the quarters. And it was expected there would be a drop from last week. Now we’ll see over next several weeks how well they can maintain the 1 million+ viewership.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*We are in year six of idiots being wrong about no one caring about women's wrestling:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1385528914517192706*


----------



## Whoanma

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *We are in year six of idiots being wrong about no one caring about women's wrestling:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1385528914517192706*


A bit rough, but accurate nonetheless.


----------



## VIP86

oh this is just the effect of Tay Conti's Ass 
don't underestimate the power of jiggle physics 
otherwise, nobody gives a shit about catfights
never will


----------



## rbl85

People care about women wrestling but not as a main storyline thing


----------



## JBLGOAT

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *We are in year six of idiots being wrong about no one caring about women's wrestling:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1385528914517192706*


There's a confounding variable. The women's match was a pinnacle match of the division with a major storyline development and the men's matches were all midcard. Although the Darby Allin versus Jungle Boy match is like a top of the midcard match.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

JBLGOAT said:


> There's a confounding variable. The women's match was a pinnacle match of the division with a major storyline development and the men's matches were all midcard. Although the Darby Allin versus Jungle Boy match is like a top of the midcard match.


*The women have had the highest watched segment multiple times in the last six months. It's only going to get higher now that Britt Baker is in the title picture.*


----------



## VIP86

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *The women have had the highest watched segment multiple times in the last six months. It's only going to get higher now that Britt Baker is in the title picture.*


you should also mention this if you're going to use numbers.
Dynamite had one of their lowest Demos in 2021 in the first episode with a women main event

highest watched segment in a below average show = highest watched average segment


----------



## DammitChrist

Honestly, I can't wait until Britt Baker wins the world championship next month!

The women's division could get really fun/entertaining this summer with Britt as the centerpiece (officially).


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> Honestly, I can't wait until Britt Baker wins the world championship next month!
> 
> The women's division could get really fun/entertaining this summer with Britt as the centerpiece (officially).


If it doesn't improve with Britt at the top then it's just official they don't really care and it's their version of WWE's tag division.


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> If it doesn't improve with Britt at the top then it's just official they don't really care and it's their version of WWE's tag division.


Maybe Britt will not be as good as she is now when she's champ.

Wouldn't be the first time that a wrestler is better without a belt.


----------



## yeahright2

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *The women have had the highest watched segment multiple times in the last six months. It's only going to get higher now that Britt Baker is in the title picture.*


On Dynamite. That´s not because they´re great. They´re good looking, but that´s a bonus 
The real reason is because they´re better and/or more interesting than a balding Cosplay Steve Austin or a pair of small flippy gymnasts with no personality.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

VIP86 said:


> again it's subjective
> i happen to think that bad booking is not the right direction
> just see what the bucks said in tvinsider interview
> if that doesn't scream "we have no idea what we're doing booking Dynamite"
> i don't know what else would
> 
> here is what they said.
> question: How do you respond to the argument that there are too many groups or factions in AEW right now?
> 
> "Nick: New Japan Pro Wrestling has been booking factions for more than 40 years, and they’re still around. I see the argument, but I think North American fans have never seen this many at one time. They are used to one, two, or three stables in a company. It’s easier to book angles. It’s easy to get more people involved with different groups. If you’re not aligned in a stable, you’re alone, and that’s hard to book sometimes. That’s why we have a lot of factions. It has clearly worked."
> 
> these morons think putting everyone in a pointless faction is the way to go


I agree with the bucks sorry bud.


----------



## The Wood

I’ve got nothing against women’s wrestling, but you’ve got to be careful when using metrics like ratings to suggest that people are earnestly invested. Just like you should be when it comes to novelty acts like Orange Cassidy.

Basically, you’re getting the people watching plus people who don’t give a shit but like looking at half-naked women groan and pretend to beat each other up. I’ve actually been with people as this has happened — people who hate wrestling who stop whilst flicking to watch part of a woman’s match.

I’m not saying that Tay and Shida suck. Nor am I am saying that you can’t have a good women’s division. But there’s more to this. Imagine how successful a PPV would be if you built around this match.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

yeahright2 said:


> On Dynamite. That´s not because they´re great. They´re good looking, but that´s a bonus
> The real reason is because they´re better and/or more interesting than a balding Cosplay Steve Austin or a pair of small flippy gymnasts with no personality.


*Thunder Rosa, Shida (in the ring), and Britt are great. Tay is the most popular person outside of the big three. *


----------



## VIP86

$Dolladrew$ said:


> I agree with the bucks sorry bud.


It's ok
that's why i said it's subjective


----------



## Prized Fighter

The female audience is AEW's most up tapped market. It makes sense that they retained their normal audience and gained some newer female viewers during the Shida/Conti match. Tay especially seems like the kind of marketable face that other women would love. The better the division gets, the bigger AEW's audience will be. There is a balancing act to that as well, because the men's division is still meant to be the main draw.

Just look at the biggest ratings during the quarter hours. Page vs Starks. Two good looking dudes that certainly have a female audience. Tay/Shida. A women's title match. Finally, there was the main event Gaines viewers after the previous two segments lost viewers. Darby and Jungle Boy are the kind of guys that appeal to the younger female audience. After the Christian/Hobbs segment lost almost 20,000 in the demo, the main event maintain that audience, while increasing the total viewership.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> Maybe Britt will not be as good as she is now when she's champ.
> 
> Wouldn't be the first time that a wrestler is better without a belt.


I'm talking more so her suddenly not getting fleshed out stories and time to get her character. I'm expecting varying match degree as she's still learning in that aspect. But if suddenly it's a "why is Britt aimless, yet Jade has a story" would be annoying.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*I'm not sure why people continue to try to convince themselves that women's wrestling isn't a draw when constantly proven wrong

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1385548173817442306*


----------



## RapShepard

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I'm not sure why people continue to try to convince themselves that women's wrestling isn't a draw when constantly proven wrong
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1385548173817442306*


I guess they think it sounds better than saying they don't like women's wrestling and could give too fucks about their drawing power lol. Like I can respect that stance.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> I guess they think it sounds better than saying they don't like women's wrestling and could give too fucks about their drawing power lol. Like I can respect that stance.


*Same. I'm not going to argue with preferences, but I have a problem when you deny facts and make a false narrative to explain their existence.*


----------



## The Wood

But what does most DVR viewers (for AEW...lol at that being in brackets) mean? The show got recorded on DVR more than any other, but it was not the most watched live. Nor was it the only thing promoted on that show, surely. And how many people was that? 20k? Is that what we’re calling “drawing” these days?

The business is in really shitty shape, except for the wallets of billionaires. I don’t know if bending metrics to qualify the smallest of comparative victories in such a shitshow constitutes something worth celebrating, or provides the ultimate comeback to all legitimate criticism.

Would Britt Baker vs. Thunder Rosa do the highest PPV buyrate of the modern era? When is it okay to start comparing that ability (or lack thereof) to draw to, say, a WWF/WCW/ECW PPV that did quite well. If Justin Credible did better on PPV than them, do we get to say that JC is a larger draw?

I think it’s great that people enjoy this stuff. But the perceived success of it is just as subjective and based on individual perspective as anything else.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*I mean I can do this all night, I'm bored enough:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1380478376717086722

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1372880648625483780

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1372873152078880768*


----------



## The Wood

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I mean I can do this all night, I'm bored enough:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1380478376717086722
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1372880648625483780
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1372873152078880768*


I love you, BOSS, I really do, but none of those numbers are huge. Moving 11k people? I mean...come on.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Wood said:


> I love you, BOSS, I really do, but none of those numbers are huge. Moving 11k people? I mean...come on.


*It says +119,000 total, beating Adam Cole vs Finn Balor for the NXT Championship.*


----------



## Wolf Mark

I'm surprised that it dropped from last week knowing that there would be Jungle Boy vs Darby for the TNT title


----------



## Chan Hung

Wolf Mark said:


> I'm surprised that it dropped from last week knowing that there would be Jungle Boy vs Darby for the TNT title


Most of the casual audience probably doesnt know much of them at this point?


----------



## Wolf Mark

$Dolladrew$ said:


> I agree with the bucks sorry bud.


But where is the proof that having all these factions "clearly work"? Before NXT left, Dynamite got 685 viewers. I think the Bucks and all those running AEW live in their own echo chambers. They keep repeating the same mistakes over and over and pat themselves on the back of how they do great. All those groups have been a mess. And they are not being used right. There is no suspense, nothing. At least they could create a cool warfare-type gang athmosphere where it's survival of the fittest but it feels more like a bunch of childhood club houses that don't scare anybody.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Chan Hung said:


> Most of the casual audience probably doesnt know much of them at this point?


But I mean those NXT fans that stuck around for Dynamite last week didn't want to watch that match? These guys are workrate nuts, right.


----------



## The Wood

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *It says +119,000 total, beating Adam Cole vs Finn Balor for the NXT Championship.*


I was taking one of the data points to use as an example. 119k thousand viewers still isn’t that much. We’re overusing the word “draw” here.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Wood said:


> I was taking one of the data points to use as an example. 119k thousand viewers still isn’t that much. We’re overusing the word “draw” here.


*No, we're not. 119,000 is huge in the context of modern day wrestling. It's silly to compare this number to an Attitude Era boost where they had millions of viewers. 119,000 is literally the entire dedicated TNA audience. You can't say that something that's consistently gaining lots of viewers isn't a draw.*


----------



## The Wood

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *No, we're not. 119,000 is huge in the context of modern day wrestling. It's silly to compare this number to an Attitude Era boost where they had millions of viewers. 119,000 is literally the entire dedicated TNA audience. You can't say that something that's consistently gaining lots of viewers isn't a draw.*


That we’re talking the modern context is the issue here. The entire dedicated audience of TNA is just not impressive. If this alleged interest could be converted into some other metric (PPV buys, etc.), we might be talking. Getting a few thousand curious viewers who then don’t stick around isn’t really that impressive.

If you enjoy it, fine. But being impressed by these numbers is up to the individual.


----------



## tower_

RapShepard said:


> I guess they think it sounds better than saying they don't like women's wrestling and could give too fucks about their drawing power lol. Like I can respect that stance.


I have interest in some women and some of their storylines and could care less about others. But I'm not an average fan, I'm a guy who posts on a wrestling forum. I also think Jon Moxley has been extremely one note as a personality in AEW and all his matches have been awful because he just leaves the ring to throw people into guard rails and chairs for 10 minutes because he cant actually wrestle. And I liked Dean Ambrose for the like 3 months I tuned in to the Shield stuff. Despite this, I can admit that Jon Moxley is a ratings draw for AEW. When he had the belt, all his segments led the show. I felt Orange Cassidy was extremely overexposed for his talent for a good while, but he has appeal to a certain type of casual fan and his stuff goes viral and picks up tons of views on Youtube etc

This "womens renaissance" or whatever people want to call the booking of women since I guess the WWE got called out a few years back does not make me think the same. Ratings for wrestling in general have only continued to go down during this renaissance. Do I think the women are the cause for this? No, this is a pretty general trend that is just continuing. But I've yet to see anything that suggests theyre a solution. There are some women who can "draw" to whatever extent anyone currently is a draw, but thats not really new to anyone - Lita, Trish Stratus, Chyna etc. all existed before people on twitter decided this was a thing


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

tower_ said:


> I have interest in some women and some of their storylines and could care less about others. But I'm not an average fan, I'm a guy who posts on a wrestling forum. I also think Jon Moxley has been extremely one note as a personality in AEW and all his matches have been awful because he just leaves the ring to throw people into guard rails and chairs for 10 minutes because he cant actually wrestle. And I liked Dean Ambrose for the like 3 months I tuned in to the Shield stuff. Despite this, I can admit that Jon Moxley is a ratings draw for AEW. When he had the belt, all his segments led the show. I felt Orange Cassidy was extremely overexposed for his talent for a good while, but he has appeal to a certain type of casual fan and his stuff goes viral and picks up tons of views on Youtube etc
> 
> This "womens renaissance" or whatever people want to call the booking of women since I guess the WWE got called out a few years back does not make me think the same. Ratings for wrestling in general have only continued to go down during this renaissance. Do I think the women are the cause for this? No, this is a pretty general trend that is just continuing. But I've yet to see anything that suggests theyre a solution. There are some women who can "draw" to whatever extent anyone currently is a draw, but thats not really new to anyone - Lita, Trish Stratus, Chyna etc. all existed before people on twitter decided this was a thing


*Here's what doesn't make sense. You acknowledge that Jon Moxley had the highest rated segments during his title reign, yet say the women don't do anything for the dwindling ratings, in spite of consistently having some of the highest drawing segments of any major wrestling program (WWE, NXT, AEW). It's been proven time and time again that a large amount of fans specifically tune in for the women's wrestling segments and don't care about the vast majority of the shows.*


----------



## Mister Sinister

I don't think it's promos bringing down the audience. I think it's these damned factions. People are sick of the factions, and MJF has go away heat.


----------



## The Wood

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Here's what doesn't make sense. You acknowledge that Jon Moxley had the highest rated segments during his title reign, yet say the women don't do anything for the dwindling ratings, in spite of consistently having some of the highest drawing segments of any major wrestling program (WWE, NXT, AEW). It's been proven time and time again that a large amount of fans specifically tune in for the women's wrestling segments and don't care about the vast majority of the shows.*


This is a valid counter-argument to tower’s fine post, but where I’d disagree is the subjective use of the word “large.” I wouldn’t call Moxley a draw either.

But there are different reasons people would tune into a show. It isn’t just a catch-all “Hey! More viewers! You’re a draw!” Who is going to draw better on PPV? Moxley or Britt Baker?


----------



## DammitChrist

I’d honestly pay to see BOTH Jon Moxley and Britt Baker perform live for a wrestling event


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Wood said:


> This is a valid counter-argument to tower’s fine post, but where I’d disagree is the subjective use of the word “large.” I wouldn’t call Moxley a draw either.
> 
> But there are different reasons people would tune into a show. It isn’t just a catch-all “Hey! More viewers! You’re a draw!” Who is going to draw better on PPV? Moxley or Britt Baker?


*Right now, easily Britt Baker. We've been waiting 7 months for her to win the title. That'll get people to cough up 50 bucks for a pay-per-view, not Moxley vs the elite part 87.*


----------



## ElTerrible

I have this crazy theory, that the majority of the wrestling audience are male.
I have another crazy theory, that the majority of males are heterosexual.
I have a 3rd crazy theory, that porn is easily accessible on on the internet.
I have a combined crazy theory, that despite crazy theory #3, guys still enjoy watching good looking women fight over, which leads to good ratings.

Also it was the best match on the show.


----------



## DammitChrist

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Right now, easily Britt Baker. We've been waiting 7 months for her to win the title. That'll get people to cough up 50 bucks for a pay-per-view, not Moxley vs the elite part 87.*


Jeez, you're seriously underestimating Jon Moxley's stardom here (or whatever drawing ability that he has).

You don't speak for the rest of the AEW audience who mostly enjoys watching Jon Moxley on-screen (along with Britt Baker too).

Just because you're not interested in seeing Moxley vs the Elite members doesn't mean that everybody shares your apathy. Besides, you don't even know who most of the people will pay 50$ to watch on ppv.


----------



## Wolf Mark

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Here's what doesn't make sense. You acknowledge that Jon Moxley had the highest rated segments during his title reign, yet say the women don't do anything for the dwindling ratings, in spite of consistently having some of the highest drawing segments of any major wrestling program (WWE, NXT, AEW). It's been proven time and time again that a large amount of fans specifically tune in for the women's wrestling segments and don't care about the vast majority of the shows.*


A good number of people but not a large one. And It has not been a constant historically for AEW. It happened for Britt-Rosa and recently for the Conti matches, that's it. 

Also for years the biggest numbers for TNA were the women while it wasn't the case for the the WWE around the same period but WWE was doing numbers in 3s. 

I find that when wrestling is having low numbers, it is in a down period that it happens that women have big numbers. That means at this point that the sport is fringe.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Wolf Mark said:


> A good number of people but not a large one. And It has not been a constant historically for AEW. It happened for Britt-Rosa and recently for the Conti matches, that's it.


*First of all, you're wrong. Britt's segments routinely got the highest ratings. Secondly:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1350052989944299521
That's just one example off the top of my head for the last 3 months.*


----------



## Prosper

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *First of all, you're wrong. Britt's segments routinely got the highest ratings. Secondly:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1350052989944299521
> That's just one example off the top of my head for the last 3 months.*


That doesn’t mean that people are gonna buy the PPV just for Britt Baker or mainly for her. Britt is great but you’re marking too hard for the females. I love Britt and I know she’s been killing it but shes not a bigger draw than Moxley just based off recent quarter hour numbers.


----------



## tower_

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Here's what doesn't make sense. You acknowledge that Jon Moxley had the highest rated segments during his title reign, yet say the women don't do anything for the dwindling ratings, in spite of consistently having some of the highest drawing segments of any major wrestling program (WWE, NXT, AEW). It's been proven time and time again that a large amount of fans specifically tune in for the women's wrestling segments and don't care about the vast majority of the shows.*


I would consider Io Shirai a "draw" for NXT in the same way the women I previously described did for their programs (you could add Laycool, AJ Lee, Steph along with others). Want to note I'm speaking specifically NXT here, I'm doubtful that would hold up if she was promoted.

I'm not sure anyone in AEW reaches that point yet although Conti has some promise. We'll see what happens with her now that she is out of the title picture. I think she has some things going for her (attractive, has a distinctive style in ring) and things against (limited promo ability because English isnt her first language). I enjoy most of Britt's stuff but I think the ratings with her have been up sometimes and down others? I do think she is long overdue for a title run because shes the one woman in the company who has managed to get non-title feuds over


----------



## DammitChrist

At this point, I'm not even surprised that the argument is turning into a petty men's wrestling vs women's wrestling (interest-wise) debate when BOTH of them have plenty of valuable assets going for them in their respective divisions.

Anyway, I LOVE Britt Baker a lot. I've been high on her even while she was still a bland babyface in late-2019 through early-2020. Britt is without a doubt my #1 favorite female on the current roster atm, and she SHOULD win the world championship next month at Double or Nothing.

However, Jon Moxley is still the more established/bigger name atm. 

That doesn't mean that Britt's stardom/stock won't continue to grow over the few years, especially since I expect 2021 to be HER year on top.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> I’d honestly pay to see BOTH Jon Moxley and Britt Baker perform live for a wrestling event


You are very not a good representative of what the general wrestling audience is though.



BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Right now, easily Britt Baker. We've been waiting 7 months for her to win the title. That'll get people to cough up 50 bucks for a pay-per-view, not Moxley vs the elite part 87.*


I think this is just something we’re going to disagree on. I think there’s a reason the WWE haven’t done a follow up to Evolution. The women still aren’t there yet.




Wolf Mark said:


> A good number of people but not a large one. And It has not been a constant historically for AEW. It happened for Britt-Rosa and recently for the Conti matches, that's it.
> 
> Also for years the biggest numbers for TNA were the women while it wasn't the case for the the WWE around the same period but WWE was doing numbers in 3s.
> 
> I find that when wrestling is having low numbers, it is in a down period that it happens that women have big numbers. That means at this point that the sport is fringe.


Great post. I tend to think the same thing. Segments that lose out to the women are generally bad at generating interest themselves. Is this a gendered frame to look at things through? Perhaps. But wrestling is, sad or not, a gendered dis



BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *First of all, you're wrong. Britt's segments routinely got the highest ratings. Secondly:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1350052989944299521
> That's just one example off the top of my head for the last 3 months.*


But even that post you shared describes it as an anomaly. And it doesn’t do anything to dissuade the assertion (and you might not care to entertain it through the lens of your own fandom) that the women do better comparatively when the men’s stuff isn’t exactly firing on all cylinders.



DammitChrist said:


> At this point, I'm not even surprised that the argument is turning into a petty men's wrestling vs women's wrestling (interest-wise) debate when BOTH of them have plenty of valuable assets going for them in their respective divisions.
> 
> Anyway, I LOVE Britt Baker a lot. I've been high on her even while she was still a bland babyface in late-2019 through early-2020. Britt is without a doubt my #1 favorite female on the current roster atm, and she SHOULD win the world championship next month at Double or Nothing.
> 
> However, Jon Moxley is still the more established/bigger name atm.
> 
> That doesn't mean that Britt's stardom/stock won't continue to grow over the few years, especially since I expect 2021 to be HER year on top.


Yes, that is what we’re discussing — the value of both. Welcome to the conversation. You’re not above it.


----------



## VIP86

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *First of all, you're wrong. Britt's segments routinely got the highest ratings. Secondly:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1350052989944299521
> That's just one example off the top of my head for the last 3 months.*


it's interesting that you only remember the numbers that you like
you're going to conveniently ignore the fact that the episode wich Britt main evented along with Thunder Rosa
(a first ever women's main event for the company and a hardcore match)
got one of Dynamite's worst Demos in 2021

one look at the twitter account of this person you keep quoting from shows he's really obsessed with women wrestling
and will look for any minuscule number to try and push a losing narrative

you're dreaming if you think any woman in AEW is a bigger draw than their top men


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

VIP86 said:


> it's interesting that you only remember the numbers that you like
> you're going to conveniently ignore the fact that the episode wich Britt main evented along with Thunder Rosa
> (a first ever women's main event for the company and a hardcore match)
> got one of Dynamite's worst Demos in 2021
> 
> one look at the twitter account of this person you keep quoting from shows he's really obsessed with women wrestling
> and will look for any minuscule number to try and push a losing narrative
> 
> you're dreaming if you think any woman in AEW is a bigger draw than their top men


*It's so sad that you're so desperate to discredit women's wrestling. The demo is miniscule in comparison to the raw gain, and the competition that they beat for the top men's title.*



The Wood said:


> I think this is just something we’re going to disagree on. I think there’s a reason the WWE haven’t done a follow up to Evolution. The women still aren’t there yet.


*That's a false equivalency. Evolution 2 has been in high demand from fans and women wrestlers themselves for the last 2 years. Two Black women just main evented WrestleMania by popular demand and had the best match of the weekend. You can't say the women aren't there yet when they've just headlined the top wrestling promotion's biggest show of the year and knocked it out of the park.*


----------



## The Wood

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *It's so sad that you're so desperate to discredit women's wrestling. The demo is miniscule in comparison to the raw gain, and the competition that they beat for the top men's title.
> 
> 
> That's a false equivalency. Evolution 2 has been in high demand from fans and women wrestlers themselves for the last 2 years. Two Black women just main evented WrestleMania by popular demand and had the best match of the weekend. You can't say the women aren't there yet when they've just headlined the top wrestling promotion's biggest show of the year and knocked it out of the park.*


Was it by popular demand, or was it because the company wants to put that foot forward for PR reasons?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Wood said:


> Was it by popular demand, or was it because the company wants to put that foot forward for PR reasons?


*This sounds like the same excuse you would make if Evolution 2 was announced. It's not their fault it was a Rousey worship session disguised as a Pay-Per-View. It's been wanted, but WWE refuses to do it because that was never about the other women. The vast majority of wrestling fans wanted to see Sasha and Bianca in the main event, which was proven through multiple Twitter trends and polls within WWE. They blew everything out of the water except the Smackdown triple threat, which was on night two, so it didn't matter.*


----------



## VIP86

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> It's so sad that you're so desperate to discredit women's wrestling. The demo is miniscule in comparison to the raw gain, and the competition that they beat for the top men's title.


nope, i'm just not that desperate to make women wrestling look more important than what it actually is
sideshow attraction.
it may sounds harsh for fans of women wrestling, but it's the simple truth and reality

would i want it to go away ?
not at all

but i also see it for what it is, without colorful glasses


----------



## The Wood

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *This sounds like the same excuse you would make if Evolution 2 was announced. It's not their fault it was a Rousey worship session disguised as a Pay-Per-View. It's been wanted, but WWE refuses to do it because that was never about the other women. The vast majority of wrestling fans wanted to see Sasha and Bianca in the main event, which was proven through multiple Twitter trends and polls within WWE. They blew everything out of the water except the Smackdown triple threat, which was on night two, so it didn't matter.*


Sorry, BOSS, but I’m just not feeling that as anything other than anecdotal evidence. Yeah, people within a bubble may or may not ask for it, but that bubble is getting smaller and smaller too. For every single person that desperately wants a women’s main event, how many feel the idea is a little patronising?

Evolution was an attempt to branch off the women into their own line of events, and they had trouble moving tickets. And that was off the fresh idea. It’s got nothing to do with the show being good or not, fans — right, wrong or otherwise — just don’t see women’s wrestling as the whole event.

For the record, I think you could put together an ace women’s show. I just don’t think it would resemble the AEW Women’s Division or implies an inherent overwhelming interest in women’s wrestling.

It’s got to be good. And it’s got to be in the right place with the right emphasis. Like any wrestling. And I understand it when people say they don’t like this. And I don’t think the women getting 100k viewers for a car crash freak show segment proves they can be sustainable draws in the spot, or as sustainable as the men.


----------



## 3venflow

It would be interesting to see how a new, independently backed promotion with Ronda Rousey, Charlotte Flair, Tessa Blanchard, Becky Lynch, Sasha Banks, Asuka, Britt Baker, Jade Cargill, Tay Conti and other prominent female wrestlers would do.

It's hard to predict, but my guess is it'd average a half million after an initial spike on TNT or USA without the WWE brand behind it. When you don't have that, you're pretty much starting from 0, since you don't have tens of millions of social media followers to promote to like WWE does with NXT. It'd have a following but I can't see it ever being as big as male-dominated products.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Wood said:


> Sorry, BOSS, but I’m just not feeling that as anything other than anecdotal evidence. Yeah, people within a bubble may or may not ask for it, but that bubble is getting smaller and smaller too. For every single person that desperately wants a women’s main event, how many feel the idea is a little patronising?
> 
> Evolution was an attempt to branch off the women into their own line of events, and they had trouble moving tickets. And that was off the fresh idea. It’s got nothing to do with the show being good or not, fans — right, wrong or otherwise — just don’t see women’s wrestling as the whole event.
> 
> For the record, I think you could put together an ace women’s show. I just don’t think it would resemble the AEW Women’s Division or implies an inherent overwhelming interest in women’s wrestling.
> 
> It’s got to be good. And it’s got to be in the right place with the right emphasis. Like any wrestling. And I understand it when people say they don’t like this. And I don’t think the women getting 100k viewers for a car crash freak show segment proves they can be sustainable draws in the spot, or as sustainable as the men.


*That's why I posted multiple other examples of the AEW women drawing. That's why people have been outraged about how poorly their women's division has been handled for the last 2 years. They WANT to be invested. In spite of us getting crumbs for storylines, people still tune in to support the top women. *


----------



## NathanMayberry

Punkhead said:


> Quarter hour ratings: (taken from Reddit)
> 
> Q1 - 1,192,000 viewers and 485,000 demo - Adam Page vs. Ricky Starks and the post-match
> Q2 - 1,124,000 viewers and 476,000 demo - Penta vs. Trent
> Q3 - 1,099,000 viewers and 476,000 demo - Pinnacle interview, the Tay Conti-Hikaru Shida video package
> Q4 - 1,174,000 viewers and 512,000 demo - Shida vs. Conti
> Q5 - 1,094,000 viewers and 493,000 demo - Inner Circle promo and Billy Gunn vs. QT Marshall
> Q6 - 1,063,000 viewers and 494,000 demo - Elite in the trailer and Jon Moxley & Eddie Kingston
> Q7 - 1,038,000 viewers and 473,000 demo - Christian Cage vs. Hobbs
> Q8 - 1,050,000 viewers and 470,000 demo - Darby Allin vs. Jungle Boy
> 
> Well done, Shida vs Conti, gaining viewers, it was the match of the night for me.


There wasn't a single quarter that touched the average from the previous week. Its strange seeing the loss of 100 K viewers be celebrated and the predictions of 2 million people in future shows as if the 1.219 million from a couple of weeks ago is a guarantee. 

Weeks ago I said that AEW would get over a million for their solo debut and proceed to lose much of that audience in the weeks following. So far, this appears to be the case.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> You are very not a good representative of what the general wrestling audience is though.
> 
> 
> 
> I think this is just something we’re going to disagree on. I think there’s a reason the WWE haven’t done a follow up to Evolution. The women still aren’t there yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great post. I tend to think the same thing. Segments that lose out to the women are generally bad at generating interest themselves. Is this a gendered frame to look at things through? Perhaps. But wrestling is, sad or not, a gendered dis
> 
> 
> 
> But even that post you shared describes it as an anomaly. And it doesn’t do anything to dissuade the assertion (and you might not care to entertain it through the lens of your own fandom) that the women do better comparatively when the men’s stuff isn’t exactly firing on all cylinders.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that is what we’re discussing — the value of both. Welcome to the conversation. You’re not above it.



Considering how hilariously wrong you were about the company "struggling," you're a *worse* representative of what the wrestling audience truly wants.

For the record, this isn't even your thread. You don't (get to) dictate the topics on here. Welcome to reality, 'm8.'


----------



## The Wood

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *That's why I posted multiple other examples of the AEW women drawing. That's why people have been outraged about how poorly their women's division has been handled for the last 2 years. They WANT to be invested. In spite of us getting crumbs for storylines, people still tune in to support the top women. *


But the point I keep coming back to is that they’re not even drawing, and that these examples are the ones that stand out — hence proving the rule.

I think the women’s division has been handled badly, but that’s not because I’m outraged it because I desperately want women to main event over men. It’s because the division blatantly sucks. You’re painting way too many people with the same brish



DammitChrist said:


> Considering how hilariously wrong you were about the company "struggling," you're a *worse* representative of what the wrestling audience truly wants.
> 
> For the record, this isn't even your thread. You don't (get to) dictate the topics on here. Welcome to reality, 'm8.'


No, actually — I predicted fairly low TV rights fees, and that’s what we’ve gotten. To the point that the WWE are now offering reduced deals to its talent, and is firing them without impunity. The promotion is still struggling, and seems to have a ceiling of 1.2 million viewers even unopposed.

I’m not dictating the topics at all. I’m explaining what the topic was. You’re the one who swept in thinking they could undercut a serious conversation people are having by reducing their viewpoints and talking over the top of that instead of actually saying anything of substance.


----------



## Bravesfan3

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> The vast majority of wrestling fans wanted to see Sasha and Bianca in the main event, which was proven through multiple Twitter trends and polls within WWE.


*Are you trolling or are you being serious?

Twitter trends and WWE polls don't represent the masses.

The numbers show that nobody is a draw in the WWE, and that even within that niche women are the lesser draw.

Peak numbers for women were 1998-2001, when you had Chyna and Sable, no women has even come close to that.

If you said that you wanted women to main event out of your own desires(for whatever reason that may be), then we would respect, but being dishonest and insulting my intelligence via tongue in cheek trolling?

No.

Becky Lynch, who was perhaps the most popular of the modern bunch not only didn't draw but brought viewership down, this is a statistical fact. the data therefore tells us women today shouldn't be at the top of the card.

You don't have to like those facts, but that's how it is.

I really wish women could be as popular as Chyna and Sable, who were mainstream and drew more than 99% of their male contemporaries, but that's simply not the facts, and lying to yourself won't change it.*


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> But the point I keep coming back to is that they’re not even drawing, and that these examples are the ones that stand out — hence proving the rule.
> 
> I think the women’s division has been handled badly, but that’s not because I’m outraged it because I desperately want women to main event over men. It’s because the division blatantly sucks. You’re painting way too many people with the same brish
> 
> 
> 
> No, actually — I predicted fairly low TV rights fees, and that’s what we’ve gotten. To the point that the WWE are now offering reduced deals to its talent, and is firing them without impunity. The promotion is still struggling, and seems to have a ceiling of 1.2 million viewers even unopposed.
> 
> I’m not dictating the topics at all. I’m explaining what the topic was. *You’re the one who swept in thinking they could undercut a serious conversation people are having by reducing their viewpoints and talking over the top of that instead of actually saying anything of substance.*


Hey, it's not my fault that your comprehension skills are slacking since you randomly decided to make those false accusations (about me reducing "various" viewpoints) based off my first paragraph a couple of posts ago instead of even acknowledging my valid points for the last 3 paragraphs that I made. 

Anyway, it's pretty obvious at this point that most of your posts lack any substance (despite writing so many words) in these conversations. It's partially why your viewpoints *should* get reduced tbh, especially since you're STILL claiming that they're "struggling" despite their big success over the past couple of weeks lately 😂



Bravesfan3 said:


> Woah what?
> 
> That sounds fucked up, whatever you're trying to imply...


Oh, don't try to look deep into it :mj4


----------



## Bravesfan3

DammitChrist said:


> it's partially why your viewpoints *should* get reduced tbh


Woah what?

That sounds fucked up, whatever you're trying to imply...


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> Hey, it's not my fault that your comprehension skills are slacking since you randomly decided to make those false accusations (about me reducing "various" viewpoints) based off my first paragraph a couple of posts ago instead of even acknowledging my valid points for the last 3 paragraphs that I made.
> 
> Anyway, it's pretty obvious at this point that most of your posts lack any substance (despite writing so many words) in these conversations. It's partially why your viewpoints *should* get reduced tbh, especially since you're STILL claiming that they're "struggling" despite their big success over the past couple of weeks lately 😂


Lol, this ironically contains no content.

You said you weren’t surprised that this has become a men’s wrestling vs. women’s wrestling argument, even though both have merits. Rather condescendingly too. And yes, _that_ is what people are discussing. You wouldn’t be the only one with the faculties with which to discuss that, even if you actually had the faculties to discuss it. Which you didn’t. Like usual, you just state something as if it is true without breaking the surface.


----------



## Bravesfan3

So, 

AEW Dynamite:* April 14, 2021 - 1.219 million viewers* - First AEW show unopposed which is basically a re-debut.
*April 21, 2021 - 1.104 million viewers* - 2nd week AEW unopposed by NXT

Basically what happened when they debuted in 2019 is happening again.

*October 2, 2019 - 1.409 million viewers* due to initial interest from new viewers upon debut
*October 9, 2019 - 1,140 million viewers* due to rejection of horrible product by initial interest group week prior

Now only 4 weeks later on October 30, 2019 AEW Dynamite got 759,000 viewers, 650,000 viewers less than their debut. they lost HALF their audience in less than a month. if you got excited about that initial number and thought they would grow, you were very wrong, this is why you don't jump the gun, Russo said it takes months to see if what you're doing is working.

So analyze data:

Show got initial interest on Oct 2, 2019 from new viewers due to it debut in 2019 then declined.
Show gets initial interest on April 14, 2021 from NXT viewers who wouldn't watch AEW due to lack of NXT opposition then starts to decline.

This is why you have to analyze the data before you get excited about a ratings bump.

Now over the next few weeks the show will fluctuate like it did in late 2019/early 2020, so don't jump the gun, if the show does not improve, the ratings will continue to decline as they have been consistently since it's debut.


----------



## The Wood

Yeah, basically 1 in 10 people from last week said “Nope.” It may not decrease at exactly the same rate, but it’s likely people are going to get more and more fatigued with this product, just like all modern wrestling.


----------



## rbl85

Look at those troll/haters

When you think that you got rid of one, an other arrive XD


----------



## Bravesfan3

The Wood said:


> Yeah, basically 1 in 10 people from last week said “Nope.” It may not decrease at exactly the same rate, but it’s likely people are going to get more and more fatigued with this product, just like all modern wrestling.


According to Vince Russo, you can't lose the audience twice, you can't have them say "Nope" twice, even after you built them back up.(in this case AEW didn't build shit, they just inherited viewers who will watch wrestling anyways and can't watch NXT on Wednesday's because of Hockey.)

The audience can say "Nope" once, but TWICE? And it will be difficult to recover.

And if they manage to do this to themselves TWICE, despite 2 + years of proven warnings or advisement then they deserve to lose viewers.


----------



## The Wood

Bravesfan3 said:


> According to Vince Russo, you can't lose the audience twice, you can't have them say nope twice, even after you built them back up.(in this case AEW didn't build shit, they just inherited viewers who will watch wrestling anyways and can't watch NXT on Wednesday's because of Hockey.)
> 
> The audience can say "Nope" once, but TWICE? And it will be difficult to recovery.
> 
> And if they manage to do this to themselves TWICE, despite 2 + years of proven warnings or advisement then they deserve to lose viewers.


I’m not going to cite Vince Russo as a source for any kind of knowledge, but this is common sense. When you lose fans, it’s VERY hard to make them come back after actively deciding not to follow anymore.


----------



## DammitChrist

Bravesfan3 said:


> According to Vince Russo, you can't lose the audience twice, you can't have them say "Nope" twice, even after you built them back up.(in this case AEW didn't build shit, they just inherited viewers who will watch wrestling anyways and can't watch NXT on Wednesday's because of Hockey.)
> 
> The audience can say "Nope" once, but TWICE? And it will be difficult to recover.
> 
> And if they manage to do this to themselves TWICE, despite 2 + years of proven warnings or advisement then they deserve to lose viewers.



You are @RLStern, aren’t you?


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> You are @RLStern, aren’t you?


RLStern denied The Rock was a big star, didn’t they? This guy seems like he would argue pretty reasonably for star power. Another swing and a miss it seems.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> RLStern denied The Rock was a big star, didn’t they? This guy seems like he would argue pretty reasonably for star power. Another swing and a miss it seems.


You cream your pants over anything that bashes the entertaining product. I’m not surprised that you’d rather put your faith on an obnoxious troll who isn’t wanted on here.


----------



## Bravesfan3

The Wood said:


> RLStern denied The Rock was a big star, didn’t they? This guy seems like he would argue pretty reasonably for star power. Another swing and a miss it seems.


I don't know Rlstern, but I would never deny Rock was a big star, WTF.

I simply analyzed recent AEW numbers.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> You cream your pants over anything that bashes the entertaining product. I’m not surprised that you’d rather put your faith on an obnoxious troll who isn’t wanted on here.


You’ve said nothing in here, except start from the conclusion you want — that AEW is an entertaining product (citation needed). And I don’t put my faith in you. Wtf?


----------



## CM Buck

The Wood said:


> You’ve said nothing in here, except start from the conclusion you want — that AEW is an entertaining product (citation needed). And I don’t put my faith in you. Wtf?


Very nice comeback on that one lol

@DammitChrist to put this to bed, upon inspection by administration they couldn't find any correlation between Bravesfan3 and Stern so enough. His not a rejoiner. If you have evidence to the contrary then pm admin. But for now play nice


----------



## VIP86

@Firefromthegods
i really don't understand what's the point of banning people whether they are critics or hardcore fans in the first place
VPN programs and extensions are free and abundant now
so in reality, nobody can really be banned from being here if they wanted to
the forum has an ignore feature, if someone is bothering you just press the button

nobody (from both sides) has the right to demand the banning of someone else in my opinion


----------



## CM Buck

VIP86 said:


> @Firefromthegods
> i really don't understand what's the point of banning people whether they are critics or hardcore fans in the first place
> VPN programs and extensions are free and abundant now
> so in reality, nobody can really be banned from being here if they wanted to
> the forum has an ignore feature, if someone is bothering you just press the button
> 
> nobody (from both sides) has the right to demand the banning of someone else in my opinion


Rules are rules. We don't ban on what the people want. We ban solely on post content. The mods generally don't give a damn about this little feud in the section unless it reaches DC nwo levels


----------



## VIP86

Firefromthegods said:


> Rules are rules. We don't ban on what the people want. We ban solely on post content. The mods generally don't give a damn about this little feud in the section unless it reaches DC nwo levels


i generally like Rules, it keeps humans in line
but i'm talking about banning itself
it doesn't work nowadays with all the free ways of which you can change your IP address


----------



## NXT Only

Bravesfan3 said:


> So,
> 
> AEW Dynamite:* April 14, 2021 - 1.219 million viewers* - First AEW show unopposed which is basically a re-debut.
> *April 21, 2021 - 1.104 million viewers* - 2nd week AEW unopposed by NXT
> 
> Basically what happened when they debuted in 2019 is happening again.
> 
> *October 2, 2019 - 1.409 million viewers* due to initial interest from new viewers upon debut
> *October 9, 2019 - 1,140 million viewers* due to rejection of horrible product by initial interest group week prior
> 
> Now only 4 weeks later on October 30, 2019 AEW Dynamite got 759,000 viewers, 650,000 viewers less than their debut. they lost HALF their audience in less than a month. if you got excited about that initial number and thought they would grow, you were very wrong, this is why you don't jump the gun, Russo said it takes months to see if what you're doing is working.
> 
> So analyze data:
> 
> Show got initial interest on Oct 2, 2019 from new viewers due to it debut in 2019 then declined.
> Show gets initial interest on April 14, 2021 from NXT viewers who wouldn't watch AEW due to lack of NXT opposition then starts to decline.
> 
> This is why you have to analyze the data before you get excited about a ratings bump.
> 
> Now over the next few weeks the show will fluctuate like it did in late 2019/early 2020, so don't jump the gun, if the show does not improve, the ratings will continue to decline as they have been consistently since it's debut.


Lol


----------



## One Shed

Firefromthegods said:


> Rules are rules. We don't ban on what the people want. We ban solely on post content. The mods generally don't give a damn about this little feud in the section unless it reaches DC nwo levels


Oh I think we have a good amount of evidence that a certain mod let his emotions run wilder than a teenager wanting a pony.


----------



## CM Buck

Two Sheds said:


> Oh I think we have a good amount of evidence that a certain mod let his emotions run wilder than a teenager wanting a pony.


Note the generally. I didn’t say it doesn't happen but that isn't relevant to this thread


----------



## DammitChrist

Bravesfan3 said:


> *Are you trolling or are you being serious?
> 
> Twitter trends and WWE polls don't represent the masses.
> 
> The numbers show that nobody is a draw in the WWE, and that even within that niche women are the lesser draw.
> 
> Peak numbers for women were 1998-2001, when you had Chyna and Sable, no women has even come close to that.
> 
> If you said that you wanted women to main event out of your own desires(for whatever reason that may be), then we would respect, but being dishonest and insulting my intelligence via tongue in cheek trolling?
> 
> No.
> 
> Becky Lynch, who was perhaps the most popular of the modern bunch not only didn't draw but brought viewership down, this is a statistical fact. the data therefore tells us women today shouldn't be at the top of the card.
> 
> You don't have to like those facts, but that's how it is.
> 
> I really wish women could be as popular as Chyna and Sable, who were mainstream and drew more than 99% of their male contemporaries, but that's simply not the facts, and lying to yourself won't change it.*


You did make a good point on one aspect here. I don't see how Twitter polls are supposed to represent the "majority" of wrestling fans. That's honestly such a very short-sighted way of thinking (by those folks on Twitter) :lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Bravesfan3 said:


> So,
> 
> AEW Dynamite:* April 14, 2021 - 1.219 million viewers* - First AEW show unopposed which is basically a re-debut.
> *April 21, 2021 - 1.104 million viewers* - 2nd week AEW unopposed by NXT
> 
> Basically what happened when they debuted in 2019 is happening again.
> 
> *October 2, 2019 - 1.409 million viewers* due to initial interest from new viewers upon debut
> *October 9, 2019 - 1,140 million viewers* due to rejection of horrible product by initial interest group week prior
> 
> Now only 4 weeks later on October 30, 2019 AEW Dynamite got 759,000 viewers, 650,000 viewers less than their debut. they lost HALF their audience in less than a month. if you got excited about that initial number and thought they would grow, you were very wrong, this is why you don't jump the gun, Russo said it takes months to see if what you're doing is working.
> 
> So analyze data:
> 
> Show got initial interest on Oct 2, 2019 from new viewers due to it debut in 2019 then declined.
> Show gets initial interest on April 14, 2021 from NXT viewers who wouldn't watch AEW due to lack of NXT opposition then starts to decline.
> 
> This is why you have to analyze the data before you get excited about a ratings bump.
> 
> Now over the next few weeks the show will fluctuate like it did in late 2019/early 2020, so don't jump the gun, if the show does not improve, the ratings will continue to decline as they have been consistently since it's debut.


wow, you’re very knowledgeable for a fan that just joined WF for the first time 4 days ago

welcome welcome - go watch BTE every monday, I’m sure you’ll enjoy it

also, our champions are Omega and The Bucks - great lads, good workrates - nuanced psychology

have fun


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> wow, you’re very knowledgeable for a fan that just joined WF for the first time 4 days ago
> 
> welcome welcome - go watch BTE every monday, I’m sure you’ll enjoy it
> 
> also, our champions are Omega and The Bucks - great lads, good workrates - nuanced psychology
> 
> have fun


Why are you trying to bully someone because they’ve just signed up? Everyone has to join sometime.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> Why are you trying to bully someone because they’ve just signed up? Everyone has to join sometime.


only you would see a statements of who the champions are + a recommendation to watch BTE as bullying 😂

can you be any more biased?


----------



## La Parka

LifeInCattleClass said:


> only you would see a statements of who the champions are + a recommendation to watch BTE as bullying 😂
> 
> can you be any more biased?


Recommending watching BTE IS bullying.


----------



## Bravesfan3

LifeInCattleClass said:


> wow, you’re very knowledgeable for a fan that just joined WF for the first time 4 days ago
> 
> welcome welcome - go watch BTE every monday, I’m sure you’ll enjoy it
> 
> also, our champions are Omega and The Bucks - great lads, good workrates - nuanced psychology
> 
> have fun


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> wow, you’re very knowledgeable for a fan that just joined WF for the first time 4 days ago
> 
> welcome welcome - go watch BTE every monday, I’m sure you’ll enjoy it
> 
> also, our champions are Omega and The Bucks - great lads, good workrates - nuanced psychology
> 
> have fun


It is possible to watch AEW without being a member of WF


----------



## RainmakerV2

I will chime in here and say, while I dont think Womens wrestling will ever be a "draw", Baker is one of the only reasons I watch Dynamite.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> It is possible to watch AEW without being a member of WF


its possible - but when you find your way to ‘ratings’ or ‘rants‘ in your first 4 days, then you’re never new

and i think we all know that


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> I will chime in here and say, while I dont think Womens wrestling will ever be a "draw", Baker is one of the only reasons I watch Dynamite.


Everything depends on what exactly is a draw now.


----------



## VIP86

The Wood said:


> Why are you trying to bully someone because they’ve just signed up? Everyone has to join sometime.


i can confirm that observation
happened to me personally when i first joined the forum
i'm surprised it's allowed by the moderators that a normal user harass new users

but to be fair, when it happend with me it was before @Firefromthegods becoming a moderator


----------



## 3venflow

RAW dropped 7% to 1.774m this week, with 0.49 in the key demo. That's only .05 more in the 18-49 than AEW did two weeks ago but .12 more than they did last week.

Not sure if AEW is going to see any growth beyond its recent upsurge to 1m-plus in future, but this must be some of the closest it has come to RAW.


----------



## VIP86

i'm willing to bet Blood and Guts will see growth
but how much, and can they keep it
i don't know


----------



## DammitChrist

We’re estimating somewhere between 900 K viewers to 1.1 million viewers then for this week?


----------



## rbl85

DammitChrist said:


> We’re estimating somewhere between 900 K viewers to 1.1 million viewers then for this week?


Hard to know because in a way The Challenge season is over to it might take less young viewers BUT the season is not really over because they have 2 special episodes XD

Now the question is, Will the reunion episodes do as great than the regular episodes ?


----------



## TD Stinger

I've guessed 1.05 million for tomorrow, but that was before I saw the Challenge season finale was last week. Although, I guess there will another episode on this week? I don't know, I don't get how that all works, lol.

So I'll stick with 1.05 for tomorrow and probably guess like 1.3 or 1.4 for Blood & Guts.


----------



## Joe Gill

if AEW can keep the Wednesday timeslot without direct wrestling competition I think there is a real chance they will have a higher 18-49 rating than raw by end of year. They are already within strking distance... if it happens it will be historic... raw hasnt been outdrawn in the key demo by any wrestling promotion since 1998. Even though Dynamite is a clusterfuck most weeks its still the best wrestling show on tv.


----------



## RapShepard

Joe Gill said:


> if AEW can keep the Wednesday timeslot without direct wrestling competition I think there is a real chance they will have a higher 18-49 rating than raw by end of year. They are already within strking distance... if it happens it will be historic... raw hasnt been outdrawn in the key demo by any wrestling promotion since 1998. Even though Dynamite is a clusterfuck most weeks its still the best wrestling show on tv.


But they also have to grow though, hoping Raw falls low enough that they catch them isn't a recipe for success. The more likely case is as WWE dwindles the base of fans as a whole dwindle. Unless AEW gets better at converting and creating fans.


----------



## VIP86

if someday AEW dynamite beat WWE RAW in the ratings
i wish someone will send an AEW T-Shirt to HHH
signed by all AEW personnel

i want the T-Shirt to say
From the "Piss-Ant T-Shirt Company"
to the *Former* Top wrestling promotion

i also want the T-Shirt to have a little picture under the AEW Logo, of Cody Rhodes Destroying HHH's throne

i wish someone can record HHH's reaction while he's opening this lovely present


----------



## DaSlacker

3venflow said:


> RAW dropped 7% to 1.774m this week, with 0.49 in the key demo. That's only .05 more in the 18-49 than AEW did two weeks ago but .12 more than they did last week.
> 
> Not sure if AEW is going to see any growth beyond its recent upsurge to 1m-plus in future, but this must be some of the closest it has come to RAW.


Also noteworthy they booked babyface McIntyre vs babyface Strowman to get that. As both walked out of WM 36 as world champion, that's (on paper) possibly the biggest match Raw has. 

It's like AEW randomly booking Moxley vs Rhodes or Page vs Jericho on Dynamite.


----------



## One Shed

VIP86 said:


> if someday AEW dynamite beat WWE RAW in the ratings
> i wish someone will send an AEW T-Shirt to HHH
> signed by all AEW personnel
> 
> i want the T-Shirt to say
> From the "Piss-Ant T-Shirt Company"
> to the *Former* Top wrestling promotion
> 
> i also want the T-Shirt to have a little picture under the AEW Logo, of Cody Rhodes Destroying HHH's throne
> 
> i wish someone can record HHH's reaction while he's opening this lovely present


Will make sense the day HHH books RAW. But that would not make any sense to do now.


----------



## VIP86

Two Sheds said:


> Will make sense the day HHH books RAW. But that would not make any sense to do now.


HHH wasn't booking RAW when he said "Piss-Ant T-Shirt Company"
but it didn't stop him from saying it, as if WWE was a pro wrestling company either


----------



## One Shed

VIP86 said:


> HHH wasn't booking RAW when he said "Piss-Ant T-Shirt Company"
> but it didn't stop him from saying it, as if WWE was a pro wrestling company either


I just see a clear difference between someone with an influence vs "this is what we are doing, pal." I am not even a huge fan of HHH, but he is not the one coming up with Retribution, etc. WWE has way too much creative control and AEW does not have enough.


----------



## VIP86

Two Sheds said:


> I just see a clear difference between someone with an influence vs "this is what we are doing, pal." I am not even a huge fan of HHH, but he is not the one coming up with Retribution, etc. WWE has way too much creative control and AEW does not have enough.


how do we know that HHH doesn't come up with stupid ideas ?
i heard there was a girl driving a toy Tank on NXT a few months ago

the moment HHH said "Piss-Ant T-Shirt Company", he made his ass a target
he should know better than making stupid comments like this
because people have enough ammunition to make fun of HHH's whole existence


----------



## yeahright2

DammitChrist said:


> We’re estimating somewhere between 900 K viewers to 1.1 million viewers then for this week?


As the weekly game administrator I can confirm that´s where the majority of the predictions are 
(shameless plug here)
AEW Ratings prediction game


----------



## RiverFenix

Biden prime time speech to joint congress tonight will kill the rating.


----------



## RapShepard

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Biden prime time speech to joint congress tonight will kill the rating.


No wrestling competition no excuse


----------



## Millennial

NXT fell to 744k this week. Could AEW follow this trend and maybe fall below 1M? Someone on here said the Biden thing could have an effect.


----------



## DammitChrist

RapShepard said:


> No wrestling competition no excuse


Nah, he might actually be on to something here. 

That’s a fairly reasonable factor tbh.


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, he might actually be on to something here.
> 
> That’s a fairly reasonable factor tbh.


No, it's not time to stop the excuses. There will always be something else on TV. Either they perform or they don't.


----------



## Chan Hung

Millennial said:


> NXT fell to 744k this week. Could AEW follow this trend and maybe fall below 1M? Someone on here said the Biden thing could have an effect.


They lost almost 100k right? Damn


----------



## DammitChrist

RapShepard said:


> *No, it's not time to stop the excuses.* There will always be something else on TV. Either they perform or they don't.


Aha, so you're telling me that it IS a reasonable explanation then :bjpenn


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Impact fans should thank Kenny for making the promotion relevant again


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1387556294358290432


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Impact fans should thank Kenny for making the promotion relevant again
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1387556294358290432


So what's the service and number


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Impact fans should thank Kenny for making the promotion relevant again
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1387556294358290432


So 25k buys?


----------



## DammitChrist

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Impact fans should thank Kenny for making the promotion relevant again
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1387556294358290432


Kenny Omega being a (fairly) big name in Japan AND in the United States within the wrestling industry :banderas


----------



## Outlaw91

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Impact fans should thank Kenny for making the promotion relevant again
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1387556294358290432


They are still irrelevant. But they should definitely thank Omega for growing their numbers.


----------



## BroncoBuster3

I have no idea about ratings but it's cool to see some very knowledgeable people discussing them so I can understand them better. It's a credit to this website


----------



## Pentagon Senior

BroncoBuster3 said:


> I have no idea about ratings but it's cool to see some very knowledgeable people discussing them so I can understand them better. It's a credit to this website


Welcome aboard new poster


----------



## BroncoBuster3

Pentagon Senior said:


> Welcome aboard new poster


Thank you, I actually posted a few days ago too but was promptly banned for spam. Nike has responded and I think there was an issue with whatever they use to detect spam when signing up. I answered all the captcha things properly I think. Anyone else find it odd that a robot asks if you're a robot too? Seems like a good forum so far.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

BroncoBuster3 said:


> Thank you, I actually posted a few days ago too but was promptly banned for spam. Nike has responded and I think there was an issue with whatever they use to detect spam when signing up. I answered all the captcha things properly I think. Anyone else find it odd that a robot asks if you're a robot too? Seems like a good forum so far.


Yikes, I've never come across that problem! It's a good forum, I find it overly negative at times but I think that's just a reflection of 21st century society (it's cool to hate) and I'm probably old fashioned lol.

Were you a 'lurker' before joining?


----------



## BroncoBuster3

Pentagon Senior said:


> Yikes, I've never come across that problem! It's a good forum, I find it overly negative at times but I think that's just a reflection of 21st century society (it's cool to hate) and I'm probably old fashioned lol.
> 
> Were you a 'lurker' before joining?


I think it's just protection against spam accounts that most forums would use. Not too sure. 

And nope, I don't really go on forums. Definitely been missing out! I love my wrestling and love talking about it. Can understand the negativity though. Seems to be an internet thing


----------



## Dark Emperor

The Wood said:


> So 25k buys?


Probably even less than that. As usual Meltzer being smart not revealing actuals numbers. Also he is only talking about 'one' of the PPV providers. So it could be a provider that had 500 buys last time which increased to 4500 buys and spun as something special. It obvious it's just some AEW fans who purchased this PPV as one off.

Anyway i'm interested in todays rating. I expect it to fall but they really need to stay well above 1m. If they scrape it or fall below, then it will be disappointing.


----------



## kingfrass44

BroncoBuster3 said:


> I think it's just protection against spam accounts that most forums would use. Not too sure.
> 
> And nope, I don't really go on forums. Definitely been missing out! I love my wrestling and love talking about it. Can understand the negativity though. Seems to be an internet thing


You wrong


----------



## Chan Hung

My prediction will be 955,000. and that this will be the second week in a row they are losing viewership. Im curious what having "10" in a main event on TNT brings them?


----------



## Geert Wilders

Chan Hung said:


> My prediction will be 955,000. and that this will be the second week in a row they are losing viewerhips. Im curious what having "10" in a main event on TNT brings them?


It was a very poor Dynamite. Their “star studded” match was right at the beginning. I suspect average 970k. Start at a million with consistent drop throughout the show.


----------



## Chan Hung

Geert Wilders said:


> It was a very poor Dynamite. Their “star studded” match was right at the beginning. I suspect average 970k. Start at a million with consistent drop throughout the show.


The "decrease defense" will be the "biden speech" , and although a small factor..it is in essense a cop out of the bigger picture. The truth of the matter lies in the booking and the presentation.


----------



## VIP86

sometimes garbage unwatchable episodes gain viewers
this episode fits the criteria
dependent on how good the week before
so maybe 1,150,00 viewers


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Will the Biden speech have an impact?

Three options
1) it had zero impact
2) it had some impact
3) it had a major impact

Option 1 seems least likely to me but option 3 is not necessarily true either. I'd guess somewhere in the middle would be most likely. 

Tonight's rating should be interesting either way. Next week's will be very interesting too considering it's a 'special'. But give it a month or two and we should then have enough data to see what the 'standard' rating is during the no-competition era.


----------



## DammitChrist

Chan Hung said:


> My prediction will be 955,000. and that this will be the second week in a row they are losing viewership. Im curious what having "10" in a main event on TNT brings them?


10 obviously needed to be in the main-event last night so they can have someone like him headline the 10 PM time slot


----------



## Aedubya

.97


----------



## Dark Emperor

Biden is no Trump is terms of TV draw and his speech should not have any real effect to Wrestling fans watching their favorite weekly show.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Dark Emperor said:


> Biden is no Trump is terms of TV draw and his speech should not have any real effect to Wrestling fans watching their favorite weekly show.


The problem is that for some people that watch, Wrestling and AEW is not their favorite show, and just tune in casually. And to that people Biden speech could be more important.


----------



## rich110991

Show deserves at least a 1.2


----------



## Dark Emperor

ProjectGargano said:


> The problem is that for some people that watch, Wrestling and AEW is not their favorite show, and just tune in casually. And to that people Biden speech could be more important.


Then it's not really a valid excuse if those people don't really care about AEW. Most weeks will have something interesting we can claim caused people to tune out.


----------



## Geert Wilders

rich110991 said:


> Show deserves at least a 1.2


It really doesn’t lmao.


----------



## qntntgood

ProjectGargano said:


> The problem is that for some people that watch, Wrestling and AEW is not their favorite show, and just tune in casually. And to that people Biden speech could be more important.


People went to sleep during that speech,aew probably got a million neck beards to tune in.


----------



## 3venflow

Dynamite did an 889,000 rating with 0.33 in the key demo. #10 on cable behind mostly Biden stuff.


----------



## VIP86

fuck, that's bad for an unopposed show 😕


----------



## Geert Wilders

Last night was not must watch tv. Deserved rating.


----------



## Mr316

Not good. Not surprised.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Eh ... NXT was way down this week too. They’re pushing the crap out of Blood and Guts, so next week should be really interesting.


----------



## Kentucky34

RIP AEW.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Kentucky34 said:


> RIP AEW.


Lol


----------



## A PG Attitude

Hilarious people are calling it a bad rating when anyone with half a brain can clearly see from that table that the Biden speech dominated viewership last night.


----------



## RainmakerV2

A PG Attitude said:


> Hilarious people are calling it a bad rating when anyone with half a brain can clearly see from that table that the Biden speech dominated viewership last night.


Bidens speech was one of the least watched ever. Like, ever.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Called this weeks ago... I seriously don’t understand how so many AEW fans took the 1.2 million they got as a given. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

Even taking into account the Biden address, the rating reflected the card and even without Biden, it probably would have struggled to touch a million.

The card felt like a breather after two big weeks and before next week's huge show, which I'd expect to top 1m easily (question being can it top the 'redebut' show that hit 1.219m).

Due to being unopposed, it was still AEW's fourth best viewership of the year behind the previous two and the 3/3 edition.

Demo drops from last week c/o Brandon Thurston - biggest drop for the 50+, which is undoubtedly related to Biden's address.

P18-49: -11%
F18-49: -8%
M18-49: -14%
P18-34: -6%
F12-34: -7%
M12-34: -13%
P25-54: -16%
P50+: -23%
P2+: -19%


----------



## Kentucky34

I knew this would happen. 

AEW will be struggling to draw 600k by the end of the year. It just hasn't worked out for them.


----------



## TheGreatBanana

Don’t even use Bidens speech as an excuse. If the show was good, it would’ve retained the viewers who tuned out from last week.


----------



## Chan Hung

And there you go. They drove away their viewership, mostly casuals that helped them gain in #s, just like that. Closer now to NXT numbers. I predicted the trend would follow this week and in fact, it was worse. I predicted 955,000 and they got 889,000.

As much as i am rooting for AEW they deserved this rating. Let's face it, on paper it was mostly drizzling shits the card. While on TV there were some okay moments, overall i knew when you started the show with the Shit Order and end it with a nobody named "10" you lose viewership. Good job Tony.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Kentucky34 said:


> I knew this would happen.
> 
> AEW will be struggling to draw 600k by the end of the year. It just hasn't worked out for them.


What an idiot, you are!


----------



## La Parka

AEW's ability to snatch defeat in the jaws of victory is unprecedent but not surprised.

Lasts night show was awful and the main event of a dork order jobber wasn't having anyone sticking around. Stop with the indy garbage and you won't lose this many viewers. Nobody wants to see two grown ass men have a taunt off like they're playing smackdown vs raw.


----------



## El Hammerstone

ProjectGargano said:


> What an idiot, you are!


No personal insults. Also, there was no need for a comma in that sentence.


----------



## Mr316

Numbers will be up next week and then it will go down again. They have no idea how to maintain momentum.


----------



## qntntgood

VIP86 said:


> fuck, that's bad for an unopposed show 😕


My point has been Proven right,about aew and nxt's audience and it's age range.


----------



## La Parka

Mr316 said:


> Numbers will be up next week and then it will go down again. They have no idea how to maintain momentum.


yup.

They'll get a million again and drop the ball the next week by having a main event featuring trent? vs darby allin or some other horse shit that no one wants to watch.

Rinse and repeat.


----------



## 3venflow

Chan Hung said:


> And there you go. They drove away their viewership, mostly casuals that helped them gain in #s, just like that.


I wouldn't say anyone has been 'driven away' in a permanent sense. The viewership is fluid depending on card quality and what else is on TV.

Like, if they do close to 1.2m next week with a much stronger card, will they have regained their viewership in one week? We'll be in a far better position to judge how many of the post-WNW viewers they retained a few months from now when there is a clearer median/average.


----------



## ProjectGargano

El Hammerstone said:


> No personal insults. Also, there was no need for a comma in that sentence.


The guy is constantly trolling. And that is not an insult. An idiot is someone who has many ideas (not the best ones)! "RIP AEW", is good for the discussion, right?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Biden is ratings

aew in the mud, dead soon


----------



## El Hammerstone

ProjectGargano said:


> The guy is constantly trolling. And that is not an insult. An idiot is someone who has many ideas! "RIP AEW", is good for the discussion, right?


I never said it was, don't put words in my mouth. Calling someone an idiot is only serving to fan the flames though.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Will be interesting to see the breakdowns of this. I bet they were decently over a million, and that cratered as older folks went to watch Biden. 

They did a great build for Blood and Guts though, so hopefully that goes back up.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

TheGreatBanana said:


> Don’t even use Bidens speech as an excuse. If the show was good, it would’ve retained the viewers who tuned out from last week.


150% - this guy gets it


----------



## qntntgood

RainmakerV2 said:


> Bidens speech was one of the least watched ever. Like, ever.


Indeed,people were going to sleep through the whole thing.


----------



## Kentucky34

ProjectGargano said:


> The guy is constantly trolling. And that is not an insult. An idiot is someone who has many ideas (not the best ones)! "RIP AEW", is good for the discussion, right?


They just don't have any draws and their shows are mostly terrible.

They had a chance to change their ways when NXT moved to Tuesdays. The NXT audience was willing to give them a chance but they blew it.


----------



## rbl85

I think some of you don't understand that if NXT was still on wednesday, AEW would have done in the 600K last night


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 150% - this guy gets it


Always trust a Banana


----------



## KrysRaw1

Why is AEW going on cruz control when they finally are unopposed? What kind of logic is this shit. Ultimately Khan he's a dumb mark who can't book shit has ADD booking with stupid after birth finishes and promotes too many factions with no names no one gives 2 shits about.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> Always trust a Banana


it just makes so much sense to me now that he has framed it in this new way


----------



## NathanMayberry

ProjectGargano said:


> What an idiot, you are!


Of course... emotional AEW fan boy season has started... People like you are legitimately why AEW has pissed away every single audience gain they have gotten. 

Y’all call every single thing tiny khan books amazing and get mad at any criticism. So he keeps booking the shit that turns people away. 

The worst part is that you y’all take AEW’s good ratings as a sign that you’re right but never take the bad ratings as a sign that y’all are wrong. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Outlaw91

Bad ratings but it could have been worse. I hope they will bounce back next week.


----------



## NathanMayberry

3venflow said:


> I wouldn't say anyone has been 'driven away' in a permanent sense. The viewership is fluid depending on card quality and what else is on TV.
> 
> Like, if they do close to 1.2m next week with a much stronger card, will they have regained their viewership in one week? We'll be in a far better position to judge how many of the post-WNW viewers they retained a few months from now when there is a clearer median/average.


According to the thread they were supposed to do 2 million and the prosperous expert even said they’d be beating raw in a few months


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ProjectGargano

It was a bad number, no doubt. But if the good numbers of last weeks didn't mean that they were reaching "WWE", this rating doesn't mean that they are dead, not even close to that. 

The show, was one of the worst in the last times, for me. They can't have great matches and shows every weeks. This was a transitional one. 

It seems that the numbers can be very fluid.


----------



## RainmakerV2

We will see next week. Omega, Cody, Mox, Kingston, Baker, Jungleboy are all on Blood and Guts. If they cant at least hit a 1.1 you have to think they never will again.


----------



## ProjectGargano

NathanMayberry said:


> Of course... emotional AEW fan boy season has started... People like you are legitimately why AEW has pissed away every single audience gain they have gotten.
> 
> Y’all call every single thing tiny khan books amazing. So he keeps booking the shit that turns people away.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, commenting "RIP AEW" is so much better. And i literally said that I didn't liked yesterday show.


----------



## The XL 2

Everyone with half a brain knew it would fall.


----------



## Alright_Mate

I expected a drop below 1 million, I didn’t expect a big drop like that though.

Card was boring and got what it deserved, at least this proves OC is not a draw.

Next week will be very important, especially with the type of show they’ll be producing.


----------



## rbl85

The overreaction on this thread is just mindblowing and for both sides.

You guys look like fucking kids, it's crazy.


----------



## Chan Hung

La Parka said:


> AEW's ability to snatch defeat in the jaws of victory is unprecedent but not surprised.
> 
> Lasts night show was awful and the main event of a dork order jobber wasn't having anyone sticking around. Stop with the indy garbage and you won't lose this many viewers. Nobody wants to see two grown ass men have a taunt off like they're playing smackdown vs raw.


It amazes me that you have the chance to display your show to everyone and you choose the poor masked jabronie in your main event. Heck, it would have been better to just have Sting and Darby sit down in the middle of the ring and rehearse some goth poetry to each other...that would have probably still been a higher rating at the end of the show.


----------



## Mr316

rbl85 said:


> The overreaction on this thread is just mindblowing and for both sides.
> 
> You guys look like fucking kids, it's crazy.


You’re the only one overreacting. We’re calling it like we see it: terrible number.


----------



## El Hammerstone

I would argue that the weeks to follow Blood and Guts are more important than anything, as it will tell us if it resulted in any kind of potential long term gain.


----------



## qntntgood

NathanMayberry said:


> Of course... emotional AEW fan boy season has started... People like you are legitimately why AEW has pissed away every single audience gain they have gotten.
> 
> Y’all call every single thing tiny khan books amazing. So he keeps booking the shit that turns people away.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Bingo,in some cases the fans aren't helping the product they are hurting it.but khan is not without any fault either, because he should know better.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Mr316 said:


> You’re the only one overreacting. We’re calling it like we see it: terrible number.


Are you sure? "RIP AEW" is not overreacting?


----------



## rbl85

Chan Hung said:


> It amazes me that you have the chance to display your show to everyone and you choose the poor masked jabronie in your main event. Heck, it would have been better to just have Sting and Darby sit down in the middle of the ring and rehearse some goth poetry to each other...that would have probably still been a higher rating at the end of the show.


It wouldn't have change a thing because guess what the president talking is more important than wrestling, schoking right ?


----------



## Kentucky34

Some of us saw this coming. 

The shows numbers have been dropping since its launch. NXT moving to Tuesday helped their numbers for a few weeks. Now, the numbers are declining as normal and will continue to do so unless they change their ways.


----------



## Savage Elbow

No worries 1.5m for Blood & Guts next week isn't it?


----------



## One Shed

The quarters will tell the story here since the speech started at 9pm EDT.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

El Hammerstone said:


> I would argue that the weeks to follow Blood and Guts are more important than anything, as it will tell us if it resulted in any kind of potential long term gain.


Apparently the NBA playoffs start up the week after Blood and Guts. Wonder what that'll mean for those weeks in terms of ratings and whether or not they'll get preempted or moved to another night. Could be a bloodbath.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Here we go doom and gloom again. So you don’t think Biden speaking had anything to do with it? Gtfoh with that AEW did bad BS


----------



## DammitChrist

El Hammerstone said:


> No personal insults. Also, there was no need for a comma in that sentence.


No, he’s completely right about that poster here.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

RainmakerV2 said:


> Bidens speech was one of the least watched ever. Like, ever.


So? The people that did watch tv watched that. Do better


----------



## qntntgood

Kentucky34 said:


> Some of us saw this coming.
> 
> The shows numbers have been dropping since its launch. NXT moving to Tuesday helped their numbers for a few weeks. Now, the numbers are declining as normal and will continue to do so unless they change their ways.


Wrestling has been on a steady decline for three decades,can it be fix is the question and will be it be fix ?


----------



## DaSlacker

The 50+ dudes went to watch Biden and Carlson or CNN, depending on their politics. As did some of the 18-49 Liberal males who still watch linear television. Cut 10% or 115,000 viewers from what it would have done on average Wednesday. 

Wrestling is over saturated and AEW doesn't have the 1.5 million brand loyalty WWE has. It has about 650,000. Those are the breaks.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Not a good number. However given the speech competition, I think if this is the only one that goes below a million then it’s ok. Plus it did feel more like a filler show than anything. Main thing is next week, if it doesn’t at least get near the 1.2 million, then they really did lose a chunk of the audience they were gifted and that’s pretty sad.


----------



## rbl85

For those saying they should have put a bigger card.

You still don't understand after 2 years that AEW is not going to put a big card a week in which a big competition is on ?


----------



## Dark Emperor

Kentucky34 said:


> I knew this would happen.
> 
> AEW will be struggling to draw 600k by the end of the year. It just hasn't worked out for them.


Lol come on man haha.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

Thought it was a pretty great show tbh.. had no idea about Bidens speech though, what with not being American and all. The quarters will be interesting.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Two Sheds said:


> The quarters will tell the story here since the speech started at 9pm EDT.


It's possible I think they that frontloaded the show because of that too. I mean they put on their #1 contender in Hangman, their tag champs in the Bucks, and had the whole Inner Circle/Pinnacle segment and Omega's segment all before Biden I think, so perhaps they assumed it would go down a ton regardless of what they did.


----------



## Hitman1987

Tiny Khan looking for the viewers he gained from running unopposed:


----------



## RubberbandGoat

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Not a good number. However given the speech competition, I think if this is the only one that goes below a million then it’s ok. Plus it did feel more like a filler show than anything. Main thing is next week, if it doesn’t at least get near the 1.2 million, then they really did lose a chunk of the audience they were gifted and that’s pretty sad.


Not really. They’re still getting a second show and there’s more to life than wrestling. People are dying and stuff too. I think the news is way more important. Why obsess over ratings of a wrestling show?


----------



## 3venflow

NathanMayberry said:


> According to the thread they were supposed to do 2 million and the prosperous expert even said they’d be beating raw in a few months


More people in this thread said they'd never hit 1m again (even unopposed) when they dropped to the high 6s and low 7s, than have said they'll hit 2m (how many... one?). So after they did hit 1m - twice - the narrative has now changed to anything below 1m being some sort of disaster.

Next week and many more times in the future they'll do 1m+ again, and there will be silence from these individuals... until their next sub-1m rating, when it'll be this weird celebration of the only nationally televised alternative to WWE not hitting a million. Think about how pathetic it is that people are _willing_ failure to the extent they'll rewrite the narrative (or 'move the goal posts') over and over feed that agenda.

Some people need to grow up, really. The alarmism and hyperbole on here is 12-year-old level. In the end, AEW is going to be around for years to come and those people who want otherwise would be better off clearing the letters 'AEW' out of their mind.


----------



## One Shed

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> It's possible I think they that frontloaded the show because of that too. I mean they put on their #1 contender in Hangman, their tag champs in the Bucks, and had the whole Inner Circle/Pinnacle segment and Omega's segment all before Biden I think, so perhaps they assumed it would go down a ton regardless of what they did.


They did not know Biden was giving a speech when they taped the show but i would not be surprised if they edited the order of the show once they found out.


----------



## NathanMayberry

rbl85 said:


> It wouldn't have change a thing because guess what the president talking is more important than wrestling, schoking right ?


Biden started talking at 9 and his speech didn’t have anything any one already watching it didn’t already know. His speech obviously hurt AEW Dynamite but it’s still another night of television and regardless of what is on, having the likes of Orange Cassidy or the Dark Order on your show is going to ensure that many people don’t make Dynamite their priority. 

There will be dozens of Wednesday nights a year where there is something else on. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rbl85

Two Sheds said:


> *They did not know Biden was giving a speech *when they taped the show but i would not be surprised if they edited the order od the show once they found out.


Then why are people attacking them because 'they didn't put a big enough card" ?


----------



## Dr. Middy

Two Sheds said:


> They did not know Biden was giving a speech when they taped the show but i would not be surprised if they edited the order od the show once they found out.


Yeah, that makes sense. Without that, with how much they were hyping up the face off with Pinnacle and Inner Circle, you had to assume that would have main evented (especially with how great it was compared to other segments on the show)


----------



## rich110991

Some people here just love to hate AEW. They don’t even like it so why are they in this forum? Get a life.

Disappointed with the rating because it was a great show which I thoroughly enjoyed.


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> Then why are people attacking them because 'they didn't put a big enough card" ?


I think just because it was not a very good card in general leading up to the big event next week.


----------



## rbl85

Some of you forget that a month or 2 months ago 890K would have been considered a really good rating and with just NXT and their 700K for competition.

Now 890K with a president speech (and all the talk shows before and after the speech) with 3.5M viewers is a bad rating ?


----------



## rbl85

Two Sheds said:


> I think just because it was not a very good card in general leading up to the big event next week.


No they are clearly saying that AEW should have put a bigger card because of Biden.


----------



## rbl85

3venflow said:


> More people in this thread said they'd never hit 1m again (even unopposed) when they dropped to the high 6s and low 7s, than have said they'll hit 2m (how many... one?). So after they did hit 1m - twice - the narrative has now changed to anything below 1m being some sort of disaster.
> 
> Next week and many more times in the future they'll do 1m+ again, and there will be silence from these individuals... until their next sub-1m rating, when it'll be this weird celebration of the only nationally televised alternative to WWE not hitting a million. Think about how pathetic it is that people are _willing_ failure to the extent they'll rewrite the narrative (or 'move the goal posts') over and over feed that agenda.
> 
> Some people need to grow up, really. The alarmism and hyperbole on here is 12-year-old level. In the end, AEW is going to be around for years to come and those people who want otherwise would be better off clearing the letters 'AEW' out of their mind.


Some much truth in that post


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> No they are clearly saying that AEW should have put a bigger card because of Biden.


Well then that makes no sense because it was a taped show and no one knew Biden was speaking on Wednesday night when it was taped.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

NathanMayberry said:


> Biden started talking at 9 and his speech didn’t have anything any one already watching it didn’t already know. His speech obviously hurt AEW Dynamite but it’s still another night of television and regardless of what is on, having the likes of Orange Cassidy or the Dark Order on your show is going to ensure that many people don’t make Dynamite their priority.
> 
> There will be dozens of Wednesday nights a year where there is something else on.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


A one week (compared to the last 2 weeks) low isn't due to Orange Cassidy or Preston Vance. Without the news it would have looked pretty much like last week, they would have been beat by The Challenge and the NBA.


----------



## RainmakerV2

rich110991 said:


> Some people here just love to hate AEW. They don’t even like it so why are they in this forum? Get a life.
> 
> Disappointed with the rating because it was a great show which I thoroughly enjoyed.



Do you go to the WWE forum? 90 percent of the posts there are hating Vince and how everything sucks and can't be saved. Welcome to the internet. No one likes anything. Get over it. Like I tell you guys, if you want the discussion to be about how great every single Dynamite is and how Khan is the best Booker ever, r/squaredcircle is right there for you.



Yes, i know the damn graph thing is there. You cant freaking delete it.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> Do you go to the WWE forum? 90 percent of the posts there are hating Vince and how everything sucks and can't be saved. Welcome to the internet. No one likes anything. Get over it. Like I tell you guys, if you want the discussion to be about how great every single Dynamite is and how Khan is the best Booker ever, r/squaredcircle is right there for you.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, i know the damn graph thing is there. You cant freaking delete it.


You can delete it


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> You can delete it


Not on mobile with the Browser i use apparently.


----------



## TD Stinger

I expected a drop though not by this much.

I'll be interested to see how the quarter hours did because you could tell watching the show that for the show they booked, they put most of the important stuff in that 1st hour and the 2nd hour, while I personally found it to be fine TV, didn't have much to maintain interest.

I think I guessed like 1.3 million for Blood & Guts. For now I'll stick with that prediction.


----------



## DammitChrist

NathanMayberry said:


> Of course... emotional AEW fan boy season has started... People like you are legitimately why AEW has pissed away every single audience gain they have gotten.
> 
> Y’all call every single thing tiny khan books amazing and get mad at any criticism. So he keeps booking the shit that turns people away.
> 
> The worst part is that you y’all take AEW’s good ratings as a sign that you’re right but never take the bad ratings as a sign that y’all are wrong.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Yikes, this is such a DREADFUL post considering how BADLY you critics were proven wrong a few weeks ago when they exceeded everyone’s expectations by surpassing 1 million viewers whereas people like YOU thought the company was “dying” 

It’s pretty obvious at this point that it’s you critics and the toxic anti-smarks who are actually the ones luring away more possible viewers from watching the good product due to your blatant pessimism plus bitterness. How are the passionate fans the ones supposedly “driving away viewers” when they’re part of the audience who are ACTUALLY adding to the excitement to the product? 😂

That’s a pretty bad assumption on your part. Just accept the fact that you critics are trying to lure away (even more) fans from watching the product. The truth is that the fans tend to be correct instead of bitter folks like you who are usually wrong. 

Be ashamed of yourself with what you wrote here. It gets a HUGE yikes here.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> Not on mobile with the Browser i use apparently.


Didn't know you are on mobile sorry


----------



## Geert Wilders

rbl85 said:


> Then why are people attacking them because 'they didn't put a big enough card" ?


It is not about a "big enough card". It is about an unmissable show.

You can have all the jobbiest jobbers on the show, but it must be something you watch live and that you cannot afford to miss.


----------



## MrThortan

"President Joe Biden’s address to Congress on Wednesday night attracted an estimated 22.6 million television viewers on the seven biggest U.S. broadcast and cable news networks" according to Reuters based off of Nielsen rating's data.

That doesn't include live streaming options.

Obviously this had zero impact on the AEW viewership though. /s









Biden speech draws 26.9 mln viewers on U.S. TV networks


President Joe Biden's first address to Congress on Wednesday night attracted an estimated 26.9 million viewers across 16 U.S. television networks, according to Nielsen ratings data released on Thursday.




www.reuters.com


----------



## Geert Wilders

I feel like wrestling in general is missing any excitement. I don't feel any anticipation to watch the show. I am not excited to watch any wrestling show.

I agree that Biden has taken away fans, but is this proof that the show is missable? I have missed important political announcements, speeches and news just to watch football. Why can't it be the same for pro-wrestling?


----------



## Geert Wilders

Why is "Biden" or "news" a good enough excuse to miss a show of pro-wrestling when it does not stop others from watching their favourite shows?


----------



## Bliss316

they will get the viewers back for blood and guts but if they fuck it up again aftewrwards then thats it for them they will never get those fans back and we stay around the 700,000-800,000 range.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Geert Wilders said:


> I feel like wrestling in general is missing any excitement. I don't feel any anticipation to watch the show. I am not excited to watch any wrestling show.
> 
> I agree that Biden has taken away fans, but is this proof that the show is missable? I have missed important political announcements, speeches and news just to watch football. Why can't it be the same for pro-wrestling?



Way too many pointless matches that go too long. Why do the Young Bucks need to go 15 with the Sydal Brothers? What does that accomplish? Every single match has to have a fuckin commercial break too, and that doesnt help.

Its not just an AEW thing either. NXT does the same shit and it lost 100k viewers this week.


----------



## yeahright2

The ratings are in. Once again a huge drop.. But it was a poor card imo.
Biden might have stolen some of the viewers from last week, but that doesn´t explain that big a loss.
AEW Ratings prediction game


----------



## kingfrass44

Bliss316 said:


> they will get the viewers back for blood and guts but if they fuck it up again aftewrwards then thats it for them they will never get those fans back and we stay around the 700,000-800,000 range.


blood and guts Fake hype will not lead to anything


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

Geert Wilders said:


> Why is "Biden" or "news" a good enough excuse to miss a show of pro-wrestling when it does not stop others from watching their favourite shows?


Are we sure it didn't? 

Also shout out for using favourite with the u . Always find it annoying that auto-correct says it's improper.


----------



## KrysRaw1

Where's Khan or Jericho? Not posting about the ratings today? Lpl


----------



## rbl85

yeahright2 said:


> The ratings are in. Once again a huge drop.. But it was a poor card imo.
> Biden might have stolen some of the viewers from last week, but *that doesn´t explain that big a loss.*
> AEW Ratings prediction game


We don't know about that, It could explain it and it also could not entirely explain it. We'll have to wait and see the details.


----------



## kingfrass44

El Hammerstone said:


> I would argue that the weeks to follow Blood and Guts are more important than anything, as it will tell us if it resulted in any kind of potential long term gain.


Blood and Guts It will not lead to anything


----------



## Klitschko

Ehhh decent rating. Kind of expected. People shitting on it are pretending like there wasn't a presidential speech on television so it fits their argument. They will get back to low 1 million next week and start goint back down from there because they can't keep their consistency going every week.

They really do need to work on their stuff though. The main event was horrible in star power. It would be like Apollo Crews defending his title against Mojo Rawley in the main event of Smackdown. Like cmon guys. Stop being All Elite Friends. Give the spot to the people that have talent and deserve an opportunity, not the Dork Order.


----------



## yeahright2

rbl85 said:


> We don't know about that, It could explain it and it also could not entirely explain it. We'll have to wait and see the details.


Unless the 200K people missing from last week comes out and says they didn´t watch because of a speech, I´m leaning towards it taking some but not all the viewers.


----------



## Dark Emperor

It is obviously not just Biden's speach if it started 1hr into the AEW show. Lets say that maintained last weeks 1.1m for first hour. They'd have to average just over 650k in the second hour for it to have fallen to the viewership they got for it to be due to Biden.

I'm pretty sure this wont be the case when numbers come out.


----------



## rbl85

yeahright2 said:


> Unless the 200K people missing from last week comes out and says they didn´t watch because of a speech, I´m leaning towards it taking some but not all the viewers.


i'm not saying that 100% of the "missing" viewers didn't watch because of the speech but i would bet that 80-90% didn't because of it.


----------



## yeahright2

rbl85 said:


> i'm not saying that 100% of the "missing" viewers didn't watch because of the speech but i would bet that 80-90% didn't because of it.


We´ll see


----------



## rich110991

RainmakerV2 said:


> Do you go to the WWE forum? 90 percent of the posts there are hating Vince and how everything sucks and can't be saved. Welcome to the internet. No one likes anything. Get over it. Like I tell you guys, if you want the discussion to be about how great every single Dynamite is and how Khan is the best Booker ever, r/squaredcircle is right there for you.
> 
> Yes, i know the damn graph thing is there. You cant freaking delete it.


I’ll stay right here thanks and continue to spread the AEW love


----------



## VIP86

i 100% agree that the presidential speech affected AEW
but this also means that 300K (the difference from last week) found 78 years old zombie Biden more interesting than last night Dynamite
which is not surprising, looking at the garbage TK presented last night


----------



## Klitschko

You know, I voted for Biden and I would rather watch paint dry, or RAW.


----------



## rbl85

yeahright2 said:


> We´ll see


Only thing we can do.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Well most of aews fan base is hard-core left so I can see a chunk skipping aew to watch him and watching it later on streaming

Let's not pretend the debates didn't dig into a chunk of ratings


----------



## Londonlaw

Rather unusually for me (given my issues with the company’s creative) I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt this one time given the President’s address. 

I think we all know next week is going to be over 1 Million given the main event, but the true test will be what happens afterwards.


----------



## RapShepard

Important thing to remember is Dynamite clearly has a solid base and as long as TNT isn't embarrassed by wrestling or they don't piss off fans then they'll likely be around for a while.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Yikes they took quite the hit! Lower than I expected to be honest but the speech was an unknown. Many said it wouldn't habe an affect but that seems unlikely now. 

This thread has been riveting thought 😅 lots of folks pinning their flags to the 'AEW dead' mast. Will be interesting to see where the numbers even out over the next few weeks.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> It wouldn't have change a thing because guess what the president talking is more important than wrestling, schoking right ?






rbl85 said:


> For those saying they should have put a bigger card.
> 
> You still don't understand after 2 years that AEW is not going to put a big card a week in which a big competition is on ?


This is stupid booking and ridiculous to back. TV will always have something big going on. The idea they need to pack it up and call it a loss is ridiculous mindset. Stop the excuses fuck lol. Just book a stronger show to mitigate the drop [emoji2379]. Sounds like the more reasonable action instead of this packing it in every time something is on TV. There's always going to be something going on, on TV. They do fine mind you, but God the 

"Well the Challenge was on"

"Well baseball was on"

"Well basketball was on"

"Well Real Housewives of Asbury Park was on"

" Well the president spoke"

" Well life happened and the news was on"

Are old.


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> This is stupid booking and ridiculous to back. TV will always have something big going on. The idea they need to pack it up and call it a loss is ridiculous mindset. Stop the excuses fuck lol. Just book a stronger show to mitigate the drop [emoji2379]. Sounds like the more reasonable action instead of this packing it in every time something is on TV. There's always going to be something going on, on TV. They do fine mind you, but God the
> 
> "Well the Challenge was on"
> 
> "Well baseball was on"
> 
> "Well basketball was on"
> 
> "Well Real Housewives of Asbury Park was on"
> 
> " Well the president spoke"
> 
> " Well life happened and the news was on"
> 
> Are old.


Well i didn't know that the speech wasn't announced when they taped the show.


----------



## drougfree

back to 800-900 purgatory


----------



## Ham and Egger

Blood and Guts next Wednesday will double this week's number. 🤷🏾‍♂️


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Lots of new posters creeping out of the woodwork tonight with doom and gloom. Welcome to the AEW board folks we hope to see you again next week 😁


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> Well i didn't know that the speech wasn't announced when they taped the show.


Yet you still later said they don't try when big things happen and. That's still dumb on their end


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> Yet you still later said they don't try when big things happen and. That's still dumb on their end


I mean if you look at their cards when something big happen on other channels they never put a huge card.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> I mean if you look at their cards when something big happen on other channels they never put a huge card.


And that's dumb, phoning it in anytime something is going on is just bad television. If you know show X is having a big show coming up, and you can book for it. Then book a show to compete with it. Give your fans a reason to tune into you and not watch the other thing.


----------



## omaroo

Oh yay AEW is finished now it's dying.

FFS nothing changes.

My problem still remains in that really poor talent are being featured when they really have no place on dynamite. 

Do expect over a million next week. Between 1.1-1.2 you would think.

Some weeks they may go under a million but doesn't mean AEW is dead. Haters are pathetic lowlifes quite frankly who just love spinning their negativity anyway they can.


----------



## Han Popo

omaroo said:


> Oh yay AEW is finished now it's dying.
> 
> FFS nothing changes.
> 
> My problem still remains in that really poor talent are being featured when they really have no place on dynamite.
> 
> Do expect over a million next week. Between 1.1-1.2 you would think.
> 
> Some weeks they may go under a million but doesn't mean AEW is dead. Haters are pathetic lowlifes quite frankly who just love spinning their negativity anyway they can.


If you cant handle “hate” then turn off your electronics and get off the internet.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

After the last couple of numbers, this week's is pretty shit. They gotta do better to keep the number up.


----------



## Shleppy

Tony Khan was too busy with the NFL Draft

I just saw him on ESPN along with Shahid, Jaguars about to draft Trevor Lawrence

This is big for them


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

That's a good rating. I'm honestly surprised they did as good as they did given the presidential stuff.


----------



## iarwain

It was against the presidential speech, so it's not a typical week. It's hard not to be disappointed that they've declined each week since they starting running unopposed. But next week should be different.


----------



## DammitChrist

Han Popo said:


> If you cant handle “hate” then turn off your electronics and get off the internet.


Nah, it's really satisfying seeing the critics get roasted by others. By all means, let him continue to stay online here.


----------



## NathanMayberry

DammitChrist said:


> Yikes, this is such a DREADFUL post considering how BADLY you critics were proven wrong a few weeks ago when they exceeded everyone’s expectations by surpassing 1 million viewers whereas people like YOU thought the company was “dying”
> 
> It’s pretty obvious at this point that it’s you critics and the toxic anti-smarks who are actually the ones luring away more possible viewers from watching the good product due to your blatant pessimism plus bitterness. How are the passionate fans the ones supposedly “driving away viewers” when they’re part of the audience who are ACTUALLY adding to the excitement to the product? 😂
> 
> That’s a pretty bad assumption on your part. Just accept the fact that you critics are trying to lure away (even more) fans from watching the product. The truth is that the fans tend to be correct instead of bitter folks like you who are usually wrong.
> 
> Be ashamed of yourself with what you wrote here. It gets a HUGE yikes here.


Ummmmm.... I said this a few weeks ago... AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread Part IV

Do you mind telling me how I was badly proven wrong then or now.. 

Try as y'all may, but the garbage Tiny Khan books every Wednesday will turn off more viewers than posts made online. Orange Cassidy is peak clown and peak anti-draw.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

It draws on the higher side of what many predicted for their first non head-to-head episode 2 weeks ago and the sky is falling 🤣 🤣 🤣 

Show probably does about a million if not for the Former Vice President coming out of hiding to stammer for an hour plus. I watched Crowder's livestream of it and I will say it was entertaining as hell.


----------



## CM Buck

These last few pages. All I can say is thank fuck I never listened to cult and picked a side. Centrist for the win.

But yeah that rating was pathetic


----------



## NathanMayberry

Shleppy said:


> Tony Khan was too busy with the NFL Draft
> 
> I just saw him on ESPN along with Shahid, Jaguars about to draft Trevor Lawrence
> 
> This is big for them


There is no way they don’t find a few to fuck up Lawrences career 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## midgetlover69

Something tells me these other shows arent crying "well aew is on too"


----------



## Chan Hung

Firefromthegods said:


> These last few pages. All I can say is thank fuck I never listened to cult and picked a side. Centrist for the win.
> 
> But yeah that rating was pathetic


Centrist is the way to go. Calling it like it is and trying to critique when needed but to praise also when deserved.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Crappy card. I thought it would be just 800k. People don't care about Darby Allin vs Dude in a Mask Number 10.

Next week, again, does nothing for story progression, no one cares about Penisickle vs Inner Circle, and the garbage wrestling will bring them down to 700k again.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

d


Klitschko said:


> Ehhh decent rating. Kind of expected. People shitting on it are pretending like there wasn't a presidential speech on television so it fits their argument. They will get back to low 1 million next week and start goint back down from there because they can't keep their consistency going every week.
> 
> They really do need to work on their stuff though. The main event was horrible in star power. It would be like Apollo Crews defending his title against Mojo Rawley in the main event of Smackdown. Like cmon guys. Stop being All Elite Friends. Give the spot to the people that have talent and deserve an opportunity, not the Dork Order.


"It would be like Apollo Crews defending his title against Mojo Rawley"

Nah that would have been Scorpio Sky defending the title against Shawn Spears. 

Darby has rising star written all over him, whether you like his style or not. His match with Hardy the other week was fucking amazing. Preston Vance is young, the dude is jacked, and he can work and is ready to learn. The guy isn't Mojo Rawley.

That doesn't mean he might not end up working the midcard but good lordy y'all are real quick to throw out young talent. 

Wonder where you guys would have placed Becky Lynch after she debuted with the Irish jig. 

Things change, and the most interesting and fun part about AEW right now is that there is plenty of room to grow.


----------



## NathanMayberry

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Darby has rising star written all over him,



Eventually that dangerous shit he does to get attention is going to get him hurt. His career isn't going to be very long if he keeps at it.


----------



## thorn123

This is the rating I thought they would be at post NXT.

Still disappointing more people aren't watching. AEW won't be the saviour of wrestling...unfortunately


----------



## Danielallen1410

the ratings go down because they don’t capitalise.

they put too many boring wrestlers on the show, who The hell wants to watch Darby allin vs number 10?

so frustrating.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Ham and Egger said:


> Blood and Guts next Wednesday will double this week's number. 🤷🏾‍♂️



If it does 1.7 million Ill cut my pee pee off and film it.


----------



## kingfunkel

Not surprised the ratings dipped back below 1m. They haven't shown anything to justify those fans to stay. 
Can blame it on the presidential speech but truth be told, they're just doing an awful take on the attitude era.


----------



## Dizzie

Serves aew right with their weird preferences for who should get favourable pushes.

Who thought having the main event feature 10 with a cliff hanger featuring sky and page is what will help raise aew's viewership for the Wednesday and in the next coming weeks, that would be like raw during the attitude era closing out a show with steve Austin being attacked by Marc mero and d lo brown


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> More people in this thread said they'd never hit 1m again (even unopposed) when they dropped to the high 6s and low 7s, than have said they'll hit 2m (how many... one?). So after they did hit 1m - twice - the narrative has now changed to anything below 1m being some sort of disaster.
> 
> Next week and many more times in the future they'll do 1m+ again, and there will be silence from these individuals... until their next sub-1m rating, when it'll be this weird celebration of the only nationally televised alternative to WWE not hitting a million. Think about how pathetic it is that people are _willing_ failure to the extent they'll rewrite the narrative (or 'move the goal posts') over and over feed that agenda.
> 
> Some people need to grow up, really. The alarmism and hyperbole on here is 12-year-old level. In the end, AEW is going to be around for years to come and those people who want otherwise would be better off clearing the letters 'AEW' out of their mind.


how can one guy have so much truth in one post?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pentagon Senior said:


> Yikes they took quite the hit! Lower than I expected to be honest but the speech was an unknown. Many said it wouldn't habe an affect but that seems unlikely now.
> 
> This thread has been riveting thought 😅 lots of folks pinning their flags to the 'AEW dead' mast. Will be interesting to see where the numbers even out over the next few weeks.


Blood and Guts ratings will make this thread go quiet again


----------



## RogueSlayer

When your getting beaten in the ratings by the most boring and uninspiring president of all time you have big problems lol


----------



## The Wood

So on the week when wrestling goes down, and all the paid pundits start talking about how Raw is a sinking ship, AEW also goes down. Surprise, surprise. Can we please stop comparing the lowest Raw ever hits with the highest AEW has ever hit from weeks prior? Wrestling is in a hole and no one is growing an audience. It’s not just Raw that sucks. The bottom of one show isn’t going to fall out without it affecting the entire wrestling landscape.


----------



## Swindle

kingfunkel said:


> Not surprised the ratings dipped back below 1m. They haven't shown anything to justify those fans to stay.
> Can blame it on the presidential speech but truth be told, they're just doing an awful take on the attitude era.


Biden's speech was down in viewers comparable to the past. I just don't believe his speech was the reason for this dip. I think the biggest justification for the spike in viewers remains general post-WM eyes and also Jericho on Steve Austin's show.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Mister Sinister said:


> Crappy card. I thought it would be just 800k. People don't care about Darby Allin vs Dude in a Mask Number 10.
> 
> Next week, again, does nothing for story progression, no one cares about Penisickle vs Inner Circle, and the garbage wrestling will bring them down to 700k again.


Some had to do with the card. But If we have to say that any positives AEW have had recently as far as high ratings was because NXT left, then we have to admit that a huge part of their drop this week was the Biden speech.

And next week it will go higher because of Blood and Guts. I'm not saying Penisickle vs Inner Circle Jerk interest me but this is a big event. Would not be shocked if they go 900k.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Swindle said:


> Biden's speech was down in viewers comparable to the past. I just don't believe his speech was the reason for this dip. I think the biggest justification for the spike in viewers remains general post-WM eyes and also Jericho on Steve Austin's show.


well geez, we only have 1 short week to find out of you're right or not


----------



## VIP86

this rating could have been in the -600K area if they weren't unopposed
Geeky Tony should get on his hands and knees thanking USA network for moving NXT outta the way
imagine struggling to get 100,000 more viewers than a boring wrestling school


----------



## validreasoning

LifeInCattleClass said:


> well geez, we only have 1 short week to find out of you're right or not


You can't keep giving away ppvs on free tv either. War games should not be a free tv event..ever. 

Yes next week will be up but following week and week after and week after that will be down.


----------



## Geert Wilders

validreasoning said:


> You can't keep giving away ppvs on free tv either. War games should not be a free tv event..ever.
> 
> Yes next week will be up but following week and week after and week after that will be down.


the PPV style of booking needs to end for wrestling to be honest. 

Specials like blood and guts are required for TV.

We do not watch any other weekly shows the same way. You are not watching, idk, Breaking Bad on weekly TV then watching the season finale on PPV. Why should pro-wrestling be any different? If AEW could get a good tv deal which allows them to put PPV-style shows on TV, I could guarantee they would be better off.


----------



## validreasoning

Geert Wilders said:


> the PPV style of booking needs to end for wrestling to be honest.
> 
> Specials like blood and guts are required for TV.
> 
> We do not watch any other weekly shows the same way. You are not watching, idk, Breaking Bad on weekly TV then watching the season finale on PPV. Why should pro-wrestling be any different? If AEW could get a good tv deal which allows them to put PPV-style shows on TV, I could guarantee they would be better off.


Tv should only be a vehicle to build up the big show which the audience pays for. In the past it was the live event or "houseshow" and as the years rolled on the ppv. Monday night war gave away far too much on free tv that it burnt out the audience completely and business is still suffering today because of it.

Breaking bad isn't pro wrestling. That was 62 one hour episodes over 5 years.. Raw alone does more original content in six months than breaking bad did during it's whole run..

Pro wrestling should copy UFC and boxing it's most closely related competition. You don't see McGregor, Rousey, Lesnar, GSP, Jon Jones etc on free tv and you don't see Fury vs Joshua on free tv.

Tv is meant as a taster.


----------



## Jaxon

I do love coming in here after the ratings have been released.

few things I have noticed, 

some people love to see bad numbers and jump all over it, but wouldn't give credit the last few weeks when it was up

some just wont admit to it being a bad card/show and look for excuses, yes the president did a speech but like someone has said if the show was good people wouldn't switch over

anyway it will go back up next week and the rolls will be reversed, the haters will make excuses to why (hotshotting I think they call it) and the lovers will say TOLD YOU SO lol


----------



## 3venflow

Per the WON and stolen from Reddit. OC and Darby gaining viewers again. The Parley also did very well. The Factory thing seems to be losing ratings.

-

The show was hurt by the Biden conference

the people who “assess” the numbers “did not look twice, as almost every show had big drops"
The biggest news was that the show was rather stable throughout the entire night with the big draws being the Parley and the Darby Allin match
expect a much bigger rating next week. However Meltzer said cause it’s “Cinco De Mayo” next week, the ratings may not reach its super high predictions, but is that an actual big holiday in the US?
AEW, which had a lead-in down 40 percent from usual, opened at 803,000 viewers and 403,000 in 18-49 with Team Taz attacking Adam Page, Brian Cage vs. Adam Page and The Elite in the limo.

Quarter two rose to 874,000 viewers and 427,000 in 18-49 with the Young Bucks vs. Sydal Brothers and Christopher Daniels & Frankie Kazarian coming out after.

Quarter three did 898,000 viewers and 421,000 in 18-49 for a Jade Cargill promo piece and the beginning of Orange Cassidy vs. Penta.

Quarter four did 982,000 viewers and 449,000 in 18-49 for the end of Cassidy vs. Penta, a Britt Baker interview and most of the Inner Circle/Pinnacle promo piece. This segment peaked in 35-49.

Quarter five did 908,000 viewers and 421,000 in 18-49 for the end of the Jericho promo, the in-ring with Eddie Kingston and Michael Nakazawa that included Kenny Omega, Jon Moxley and Don Callis, plus Taz & Christian.

Quarter six did 868,000 viewers and 404,000 in 18-49 for Kris Statlander vs. Penelope Ford and the beginning of Dustin Rhodes & Billy Gunn & Lee Johnson vs. QT Marshall & Aaron Solow & Nick Comoroto.

Quarter seven did 867,000 viewers and 431,000 in 18-49 for the ending of the six-man tag, Cody Rhodes & Marshall brawling and Miro attacking Kip Sabian.

The main event segment with Darby Allin vs. 10 for the TNT title plus post-match did 909,000 viewers and 470,000 in 18-49. The main event peaked 18-49 and 18-34.


----------



## DammitChrist

That's weird. 

I remember being told yesterday that Orange Cassidy "obviously loses" TV viewers :lol

Anyway, it's really cool to see him and Britt Baker do well this week


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

validreasoning said:


> You can't keep giving away ppvs on free tv either. War games should not be a free tv event..ever.
> 
> Yes next week will be up but following week and week after and week after that will be down.


of course you can

TK has said many a time that tv is their main revenue stream - they most likely make more money long term from a good rating on blood and guts - while not diminishing their ppv sales

its not the 90s anymore - this has been going on for 2 years now, you guys should be used to it by now


----------



## Dizzie

3venflow said:


> Per the WON and stolen from Reddit. OC and Darby gaining viewers again. The Parley also did very well. *The Factory thing seems to be losing ratings.*
> 
> -
> 
> The show was hurt by the Biden conference
> 
> the people who “assess” the numbers “did not look twice, as almost every show had big drops"
> The biggest news was that the show was rather stable throughout the entire night with the big draws being the Parley and the Darby Allin match
> expect a much bigger rating next week. However Meltzer said cause it’s “Cinco De Mayo” next week, the ratings may not reach its super high predictions, but is that an actual big holiday in the US?
> AEW, which had a lead-in down 40 percent from usual, opened at 803,000 viewers and 403,000 in 18-49 with Team Taz attacking Adam Page, Brian Cage vs. Adam Page and The Elite in the limo.
> 
> Quarter two rose to 874,000 viewers and 427,000 in 18-49 with the Young Bucks vs. Sydal Brothers and Christopher Daniels & Frankie Kazarian coming out after.
> 
> Quarter three did 898,000 viewers and 421,000 in 18-49 for a Jade Cargill promo piece and the beginning of Orange Cassidy vs. Penta.
> 
> Quarter four did 982,000 viewers and 449,000 in 18-49 for the end of Cassidy vs. Penta, a Britt Baker interview and most of the Inner Circle/Pinnacle promo piece. This segment peaked in 35-49.
> 
> Quarter five did 908,000 viewers and 421,000 in 18-49 for the end of the Jericho promo, the in-ring with Eddie Kingston and Michael Nakazawa that included Kenny Omega, Jon Moxley and Don Callis, plus Taz & Christian.
> 
> Quarter six did 868,000 viewers and 404,000 in 18-49 for Kris Statlander vs. Penelope Ford and the beginning of Dustin Rhodes & Billy Gunn & Lee Johnson vs. QT Marshall & Aaron Solow & Nick Comoroto.
> 
> Quarter seven did 867,000 viewers and 431,000 in 18-49 for the ending of the six-man tag, Cody Rhodes & Marshall brawling and Miro attacking Kip Sabian.
> 
> The main event segment with Darby Allin vs. 10 for the TNT title plus post-match did 909,000 viewers and 470,000 in 18-49. The main event peaked 18-49 and 18-34.


No shit, nobody cares for qt marshall and a majority of the acts that are part of cody group, it's a shame that agogo and comoroto have to be associated with qt and this whole storyline, they both have potential to be stand out acts.


----------



## VIP86

so Dave Meltzer already has an excuse ready for next week
“Cinco De Mayo” 😂 😂 😂 
there are 52 weeks in a year
and people have 52 excuses ready 😁
oh man this is too much fun, what's the excuse for the week after that ?
two ducks crossed the street and that caused the ratings to plummet 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## La Parka

It’s almost flag day!

could be a big ratings loss.


----------



## DammitChrist

VIP86 said:


> so Dave Meltzer already has an excuse ready for next week
> “Cinco De Mayo” 😂 😂 😂
> there are 52 weeks in a year
> and people have 52 excuses ready 😁
> oh man this is too much fun, what's the excuse for the week after that ?
> two ducks crossed the street and that caused the ratings to plummet 🤣🤣🤣


Those 2 ducks could potentially find a way to damage power lines (from utility poles) that can possibly disrupt TV signals, so that’d actually be another reasonable explanation (and not really “an excuse”) here tbh


----------



## Dr. Middy

While the show was hurt by the Biden stuff, the bigger question I have is why the lead-in was way smaller. There was nothing that really could have predicted that one, it's not like the show last week was terrible or anything, I thought it was good. But it's nice to see they got it to increase to around a million or so.

While next week should be over a million, it's the weeks following that which will be more interesting with how they fair. 

However the NBA Playoffs are going to actually affect things as the show will have to be moved around.



> Per Dave Meltzer in this week's Wrestling Observer Newsletter, the 26 May show will instead air at 10 pm EST on Friday 28 May. This would avoid going head-to-head with WWE SmackDown, which starts at 8 pm. AEW intends on taping for four straight hours that night, beginning with two hours' worth of Dark content at 8 pm before Dynamite goes live at 10.
> The 2 June episode will air on Friday 4 June or Saturday 5 June, depending on which NBA playoff game ends up airing on TNT. If it's 4 June, AEW will tape the 9 June Dynamite and the following week's Dark and Dark: Elevation on 5 June.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Yeah, if not for an alcoholic Mexican food themed holiday, they would get those super high ratings. They could do 2 million viewers because of a grudge match after one month of build between two dead horse factions in a program composed of boring promos.


----------



## Mr316

It’s hilarious to see how obvious it is that Meltzer is in Tony Khan’s pocket.


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> Those 2 ducks could potentially find a way to damage power lines (from utility poles) that can possibly disrupt TV signals, so that’d actually be another reasonable explanation (and not really “an excuse”) here tbh


you know what, this is technically true 
damn it, even ducks are out to get AEW 😁


----------



## Dark Emperor

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> While the show was hurt by the Biden stuff, the bigger question I have is why the lead-in was way smaller. There was nothing that really could have predicted that one, it's not like the show last week was terrible or anything, I thought it was good. But it's nice to see they got it to increase to around a million or so.
> 
> While next week should be over a million, it's the weeks following that which will be more interesting with how they fair.
> 
> However the NBA Playoffs are going to actually affect things as the show will have to be moved around.


And some people think AEW wont be moved around for NHL either.

It's interest the Friday move is being put on at 10pm after Smackdown. That is basically waving a white flag.

Why are they running scared? Would love it go against Smackdown (WWE highest rated show) so we can gauge how they could potentially do in a head to head.


----------



## taker1986

thats a great success


----------



## Dr. Middy

Dark Emperor said:


> And some people think AEW wont be moved around for NHL either.
> 
> It's interest the Friday move is being put on at 10pm after Smackdown. That is basically waving a white flag.
> 
> Why are they running scared? Would love it go against Smackdown (WWE highest rated show) so we can gauge how they could potentially do in a head to head.


We have zero sources or evidence that they would just boot them from Wednesday as their first choice, and we still don't even know what games are going where for the NHL since it's all of Turner, which includes TBS also. It's possible, but why are we assuming they are moved?

They are going to obviously lose big time against a show on a major network in Fox, that's a given. Are they supposed to go against them and most likely do bad ratings then just for the hell of it, seems like a weird choice to make.

Feels like this is one of those where some people in this thread will shit on the ratings of said show if they went against SD and did bad, and also would shit in them if they went at 10pm and waved what you call a "white flag."


----------



## VIP86

is Dave Meltzer now the official source of everything AEW ?
the guy is like a walking official speaker for the company 😄
i wonder when will they announce his contract details


----------



## Pentagon Senior

VIP86 said:


> you know what, this is technically true
> damn it, even ducks are out to get AEW 😁


This place is quackers


----------



## Dark Emperor

VIP86 said:


> is Dave Meltzer now the official source of everything AEW ?
> the guy is like a walking official speaker for the company 😄
> i wonder when will they announce his contract details


I've never seen a Meltzer post where he is negative about AEW numbers. He's either shouting from the rooftops when they do a good rating. Or findings excuses when viewership is down.

The worse thing is we can't take his PPV numbers as legit due to him being clearly biased and he's the only one that has the numbers somehow.


----------



## Dark Emperor

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> We have zero sources or evidence that they would just boot them from Wednesday as their first choice, and we still don't even know what games are going where for the NHL since it's all of Turner, which includes TBS also. It's possible, but why are we assuming they are moved?
> 
> They are going to obviously lose big time against a show on a major network in Fox, that's a given. Are they supposed to go against them and most likely do bad ratings then just for the hell of it, seems like a weird choice to make.
> 
> Feels like this is one of those where some people in this thread will shit on the ratings of said show if they went against SD and did bad, and also would shit in them if they went at 10pm and waved what you call a "white flag."


It's all about branding. TNT is the flagship channel and more sports orientated product with NBA, MMA & AEW on there. There is no way they pay $225m per yr for NHL (their second biggest contract after NBA) and not put it alongside the channel with big NBA games and other sports. Its obvious all the meaningful games will be on TNT. Whether that affect AEW will depends on the Nights it's on.

Regarding the Smackdown point. I say they are waiving a white flag because putting it on at 10pm where a lot of people will be going to bed guarantees them a bad rating anyway. Would it really be much worse putting it at 8pm and go head to head? They obviously think so and don't want to take that risk. Just interesting to me.


----------



## RapShepard

taker1986 said:


> View attachment 100522
> thats a great success


That would mean it's drawn more than pretty much every AEW PPV which also featured Kenny. If it did great on Kenny, but seems like a stretch


----------



## yeahright2

Dark Emperor said:


> I've never seen a Meltzer post where he is negative about AEW numbers. He's either shouting from the rooftops when they do a good rating. Or findings excuses when viewership is down.
> 
> The worse thing is we can't take his PPV numbers as legit due to him being clearly biased and he's the only one that has the numbers somehow.


Yep. It´s clear that you can´t take anything he says about anything seriously anymore. He has exposed himself as an AEW shill instead of a serious wrestling journalist.
His reputation was already hurt before AEW because of his "backstage reports" from WWE which was nothing but speculation, but now it´s completely down the drain and he´s a joke in the industry.


----------



## Geert Wilders

validreasoning said:


> Tv should only be a vehicle to build up the big show which the audience pays for. In the past it was the live event or "houseshow" and as the years rolled on the ppv. Monday night war gave away far too much on free tv that it burnt out the audience completely and business is still suffering today because of it.
> 
> Breaking bad isn't pro wrestling. That was 62 one hour episodes over 5 years.. Raw alone does more original content in six months than breaking bad did during it's whole run..
> 
> Pro wrestling should copy UFC and boxing it's most closely related competition. You don't see McGregor, Rousey, Lesnar, GSP, Jon Jones etc on free tv and you don't see Fury vs Joshua on free tv.
> 
> Tv is meant as a taster.


UFC and boxing are actual sports. They are purely PPV. Whereas you can still catch Moxley on free TV. If wrestling was only PPV then you would have a point.


Wrestling is closer than breaking bad than it is to boxing and UFC.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Dark Emperor said:


> It's all about branding. TNT is the flagship channel and more sports orientated product with NBA, MMA & AEW on there. There is no way they pay $225m per yr for NHL (their second biggest contract after NBA) and not put it alongside the channel with big NBA games and other sports. Its obvious all the meaningful games will be on TNT. Whether that affect AEW will depends on the Nights it's on.
> 
> Regarding the Smackdown point. I say they are waiving a white flag because putting it on at 10pm where a lot of people will be going to bed guarantees them a bad rating anyway. Would it really be much worse putting it at 8pm and go head to head? They obviously think so and don't want to take that risk. Just interesting to me.


I mean they air MLB playoffs and NCAA events on TBS also. What I would have assumed they would do is just put the NHL on both networks, and you can have them put the NHL games for Wed on TBS instead of TNT. There are no real good times then for AEW that aren't opposed, and it makes little sense for them to go to Monday or Friday on TNT against Raw or Smackdown, that would be just sabotaging your own show when it isn't necessary. Only other option is sticking them on TBS, which also would seem weird but they could do that. 

Regarding the Smackdown stuff, that's fair and If it were just a normal show, sure you could try it. But it's their last show before DON that weekend, so having it run against Smackdown really seems like a bad idea if they'll lose ratings. Best thing they could do is put something hot right at 10pm and maybe get attention from fans after Smackdown or something.


----------



## 3venflow

159,000 for Revolution is a huge buyrate in this day and age, whether domestic or global. TNA never made any progress in the PPV market, but AEW has managed to get consistent good numbers for their PPVs. 159k is comparable with a number of WWE PPVs outside of the bigger ones from shortly before the Network launched. Survivor Series 2013 did 179k for example - 95,000 domestically and 84,000 internationally.


----------



## Dark Emperor

3venflow said:


> 159,000 for Revolution is a huge buyrate in this day and age, whether domestic or global. TNA never made any progress in the PPV market, but AEW has managed to get consistent good numbers for their PPVs. 159k is comparable with a number of WWE PPVs outside of the bigger ones from shortly before the Network launched. Survivor Series 2013 did 179k for example - 95,000 domestically and 84,000 internationally.


Shame there is no independent source to verify these PPV numbers directly from Meltzer. Can't take it seriously, its not the same as the ratings when we see the numbers ourselves.

Meltzer could post AEW did 300k buys and half the forum would believe it with 0 sources.


----------



## DammitChrist

I’d say that Dave Meltzer is still more credible than Jim Cornette tbh. He’s at least worth taking seriously in 2021 to some extent


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> I’d say that Dave Meltzer is still more credible than Jim Cornette tbh. He’s at least worth taking seriously in 2021 to some extent


invalid comparison
Jim Cornette does commentary on things that already known to everybody
Dave Meltzer announces news that are not known to anybody yet

we would know if Cornette is lying
but if Meltzer is lying, no one would know since he's the one who announced the news in the first place


----------



## TD Stinger

The only guy I go to for things like buys is Brandon Thurston of Wrestlenomics. So I’ll wait for him to say something before I believe the Revolution number. His numbers always seem to differ from Meltzer as well.


----------



## RogueSlayer

Imagine during the Monday Night Wars people watching a boring fuck like Joe Biden do a speech instead of Nitro or Raw lol


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

TD Stinger said:


> The only guy I go to for things like buys is Brandon Thurston of Wrestlenomics. So I’ll wait for him to say something before I believe the Revolution number. His numbers always seem to differ from Meltzer as well.











AEW Pay-Per-View Buys - Wrestlenomics


All Elite Wrestling (AEW) Pay-Per-View Buys: Double or Nothing, All Out, Full Gear, Revolution, All In




wrestlenomics.com


----------



## NathanMayberry

The quarterly ratings are even worse to look at than the average... opening the show with only 800k unopposed is bad. 

That’s basically the entire nxt audience boost gone. Given the rumours of meetings happening now, clearly they know that the shit they’re doing is not working. 

Will that lead to change? I doubt Tiny Khan has it in him. His Twitter sycophants and Meltzer fan boys voting him booker of the year are what seems to drive him, most of all. So more Darby, more Orange Cassidy. Let’s just blame whatever is on when 889k becomes 700k


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DammitChrist

NathanMayberry said:


> The quarterly ratings are even worse to look at than the average... opening the show with only 800k unopposed is bad.
> 
> That’s basically the entire nxt audience boost gone. Given the rumours of meetings happening now, clearly they know that the shit they’re doing is not working.
> 
> Will that lead to change? I doubt Tiny Khan has it in him. His Twitter sycophants and Meltzer fan boys voting him booker of the year are what seems to drive him, most of all. So more Darby, more Orange Cassidy. Let’s just blame whatever is on when 889k becomes 700k
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You're just going to ignore the fact that the rest of the show was considerably higher than the opening match/segment (which meant that there was some major factor that distracted fans since the 1st segment usually does well) and continue on with your twisted narrative regarding the ratings? 😂 

This is why they shouldn't listen to the pessimistic critics.


----------



## Extremelyunderrated

rough rating, oof


----------



## Not Lying

Darby does it again. This guy should never be on the backburner and hope they keep pushing him, he's clearly a difference maker.

less than 2 months ago, The 6-man bullshit was barely retaining or losing viewers from Q7, Darby has been significantly increasing numbers in the main event.


----------



## DaSlacker

RogueSlayer said:


> Imagine during the Monday Night Wars people watching a boring fuck like Joe Biden do a speech instead of Nitro or Raw lol


They did jump around a lot back then, so stuff like the Lewinsky scandal and Bush vs Gore would have effected ratings. But the pool of viewers was much higher. They could jump up and down by 15-20% and nobody really cared because that was like 7 million to 5.5 million.


----------



## .christopher.

NathanMayberry said:


> Called this weeks ago... I seriously don’t understand how so many AEW fans took the 1.2 million they got as a given.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Them celebrating like their country had won the world cup was funny. So many of them tagging @The Wood showing that he lives rent free in their heads.

By next year, when AEW are routinely getting around 700k viewers, we can look back and laugh at some of the acolytes comments.


LifeInCattleClass said:


> Blood and Guts ratings will make this thread go quiet again


And then the week after - when they fail to retain a potential high viewership - it'll be rocking again. Rinse and repeat.


----------



## DammitChrist

.christopher. said:


> Them celebrating like their country had won the world cup was funny. So many of them tagging @The Wood showing that he lives rent free in their heads.
> 
> By next year, when AEW are routinely getting around 700k viewers, we can look back and laugh at some of the acolytes comments.
> 
> And then the week after - when they fail to retain a potential high viewership - it'll be rocking again. Rinse and repeat.


The fans will laugh loudest in the end anyway, especially seeing how the company will still survive (and succeed) in spite of the fact that the critics were hilariously wrong about them “dying” recently.


----------



## The Wood

validreasoning said:


> Tv should only be a vehicle to build up the big show which the audience pays for. In the past it was the live event or "houseshow" and as the years rolled on the ppv. Monday night war gave away far too much on free tv that it burnt out the audience completely and business is still suffering today because of it.
> 
> Breaking bad isn't pro wrestling. That was 62 one hour episodes over 5 years.. Raw alone does more original content in six months than breaking bad did during it's whole run..
> 
> Pro wrestling should copy UFC and boxing it's most closely related competition. You don't see McGregor, Rousey, Lesnar, GSP, Jon Jones etc on free tv and you don't see Fury vs Joshua on free tv.
> 
> Tv is meant as a taster.


Best fucking post.

I’ve got way more to say, but will say it later because I’m busy as shit. But good golly gosh, listen to this man.


----------



## ProjectGargano

The Wood said:


> Best fucking post.
> 
> I’ve got way more to say, but will say it later because I’m busy as shit. But good golly gosh, listen to this man.


LOL, imagine having a Nakazawa vs Cutler on tv, saving the stars only for PPV´s...how would they grow their audience. They would be dead. MMA and Boxing don´t have storylines, that is another difference.


----------



## DaSlacker

It's easy to say use TV to build up to what the people pay for. But the money from houseshows is small compared to TV money and the wrestling PPV model has been blown to pieces. Going back in time to the way things were is easier in theory than practice. 

For example, never allow Moxley, Cody, Omega etc the work TV matches. Then fans drift in and out more because Dynamite is filled with 'nobodies' whereas WWE is booking Reigns vs Bryan to a clean finish. Push a much more realistic in ring style and old school face/heel divide. Then the 600,000 hardcore fans declare the brand slow and boring. 

There's a trade off and it isn't an easy one.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> That would mean it's drawn more than pretty much every AEW PPV which also featured Kenny. If it did great on Kenny, but seems like a stretch


*Looks fake AF. I'll wait for legit sources. There's no way a TNA pay-per-view with piss poor promotion did better than the overhyped Revolution that was supposed to shock the wrestling world.*


----------



## Klitschko

DammitChrist said:


> I’d say that Dave Meltzer is still more credible than Jim Cornette tbh. He’s at least worth taking seriously in 2021 to some extent


Cornette and Meltzer both suck.


----------



## BigCy

Well by the looks of it Biden = Ratings so the only reasonable thing AEW can do is to create their own "Biden" by having Tully Blanchard do a "Joe Biden Gimmick" and cut a promo on the entire US....right guys?

...

...guys?


----------



## VIP86

people are forgetting something important in this TV versus PPV (houseshow) argument
the old (houseshow) model worked back then because people *had* to go or pay to see the event
or else they'll miss the payoff of the story completely

now is the internet AGE
everything is available for free on the internet
90% of people don't pay for shit anymore (other than their internet bill)

plus, back then houseshows were the main income stream for a company
but now TV deals are the main income stream for a company
TV deals are guaranteed money, unlike PPVs that may or may not do well in sales

AEW can't risk their TV Ratings in order to support their PPV business
or else TNT will stomp the shit outta them


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

BigCy said:


> Well by the looks of it Biden = Ratings so the only reasonable thing AEW can do is to create their own "Biden" by having Tully Blanchard do a "Joe Biden Gimmick" and cut a promo on the entire US....right guys?
> 
> ...
> 
> ...guys?


only if he falls every time he walks the ring steps - golden television


----------



## RapShepard

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Looks fake AF. I'll wait for legit sources. There's no way a TNA pay-per-view with piss poor promotion did better than the overhyped Revolution that was supposed to shock the wrestling world.*


It doesn't seem likely at all. It would be a big surprise and notch on Kenny's belt if that was the number


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> It doesn't seem likely at all. It would be a big surprise and notch on Kenny's belt if that was the number


*Simple logic makes it impossible. That number is higher than their average viewership, and you expect us to believe all those people bought a pay-per-view of a company many don't even know still exists? Even at wrestling's peak, if you converted 10% of your viewership to pay-per-view buys, you were doing a good job. 50% was unheard of, but these people expect us to believe TNA of all companies did 110% because of Kenny? Please.*


----------



## RapShepard

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Simple logic makes it impossible. That number is higher than their average viewership, and you expect us to believe all those people bought a pay-per-view of a company many don't even know still exists? Even at wrestling's peak, if you converted 10% of your viewership to pay-per-view buys, you were doing a good job. 50% was unheard of, but these people expect us to believe TNA of all companies did 110% because of Kenny? Please.*


Yup it's a hard sell to take as facts from a random Twitter account


----------



## yeahright2

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Simple logic makes it impossible. That number is higher than their average viewership, and you expect us to believe all those people bought a pay-per-view of a company many don't even know still exists? Even at wrestling's peak, if you converted 10% of your viewership to pay-per-view buys, you were doing a good job. 50% was unheard of, but these people expect us to believe TNA of all companies did 110% because of Kenny? Please.*


Unless I´m missing something, That tweet is about AEW Revolution, not Impact Rebellion.
But there´s this one who´s even more stupid

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1387556294358290432
9 times the buyrate of Bound for Glory would result in a buyrate of 180K if Meltzers own report of 20K buys of that event is true.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

yeahright2 said:


> Unless I´m missing something, That tweet is about AEW Revolution, not Impact Rebellion.
> But there´s this one who´s even more stupid
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1387556294358290432
> 9 times the buyrate of Bound for Glory would result in a buyrate of 180K if Meltzers own report of 20K buys of that event is true.


*The number I saw was 175,000, so Meltzer will look like an even bigger jackass when this blows up in his face 🤣*


----------



## yeahright2

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *The number I saw was 175,000, so Meltzer will look like an even bigger jackass when this blows up in his face 🤣*


Yeah.. They average 150K viewers, and had one of their lowest rated episodes of the year last week (after Kenny took the title) with 120K - and another really low number on the show where he faced off with Swann (116K) before their title match at Rebellion.
Based on those numbers, you could get the idea that Impact fans isn´t too fond of Kenny. I´m not denying they got a boost first time he went there -most likely AEW fans who followed him.
But all in all, Rebellion doing 20% above their average viewership numbers when they had zero advertising on Dynamite.. That´s highly unlikely (to put it nicely)


----------



## 3venflow

Every wrestling show was down this week against strong competition (Biden, NFL Draft). Smackdown also dropped (-6% to 1.9m) despite the big main event, but did retain its key demo (0.5) which is the important thing.

IMPACT drew 120k with 0.05 in the key demo, it's second lowest of 2021 after a decent 145k last week. Like Smackdown, it retained its demo rating from last week though. It should be said that their average weekly rating is currently higher than the 2020 average (162k vs. 154k)


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> Every wrestling show was down this week against strong competition (Biden, NFL Draft). Smackdown also dropped (-6% to 1.9m) despite the big main event, but did retain its key demo (0.5) which is the important thing.
> 
> IMPACT drew 120k with 0.05 in the key demo, it's second lowest of 2021 after a decent 145k last week. Like Smackdown, it retained its demo rating from last week though. It should be said that their average weekly rating is currently higher than the 2020 average (162k vs. 154k)


*AEW went from 1.2 million two weeks ago to under 900k. That drop is related to more than Biden.*


----------



## VIP86

how many PPV providers are in the US ?
because i don't think Meltzer's tweet means 180K buyrate
he's talking about *one* PPV provider that he checked

this specific PPV provider could have 100 buys for Bound for Glory
and 900 buys for Rebellion
this would make it nine times as much

but of course saying 900 is not as impressive as saying "nine times as much"
and Meltzer always chooses the words that sounds more impressive


----------



## RapShepard

VIP86 said:


> how many PPV providers are in the US ?
> because i don't think Meltzer's tweet means 180K buyrate
> he's talking about *one* PPV provider that he checked
> 
> this specific PPV provider could have 100 buys for Bound for Glory
> and 900 buys for Rebellion
> this would make it nine times as much
> 
> but of course saying 900 is not as impressive as saying "nine times as much"
> and Meltzer always chooses the words that sounds more impressive


Yeah that's what's going to make the speculation fun until he officially says the number. Because it's intentionally so vague. Like if that one provider normally does 4k buys and Kenny boosted it up to 8x or 9x to 32k or 36k that's still a damn good look for him. Even if it the true number doesn't sound as crazy as the multiplier.


----------



## Klitschko

I heard from a reliable source that Rebellion actually got 1 million ppv buys all thanks to Kenny.


----------



## La Parka

Klitschko said:


> I heard from a reliable source that Rebellion actually got 1 million ppv buys all thanks to Kenny.


My sources tell me it was actually 3 million


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

My source tells me 10 people purchased the PPV.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I bought the ppv, 1m times - so i know my figure is correct

also... i’m poor now


----------



## Mr316

yeahright2 said:


> Unless I´m missing something, That tweet is about AEW Revolution, not Impact Rebellion.
> But there´s this one who´s even more stupid
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1387556294358290432
> 9 times the buyrate of Bound for Glory would result in a buyrate of 180K if Meltzers own report of 20K buys of that event is true.


What a clown. 😂😂😂


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I bought the ppv, 1m times - so i know my figure is correct
> 
> also... i’m poor now


Lol


----------



## DammitChrist

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *The number I saw was 175,000, so Meltzer will look like an even bigger jackass when this blows up in his face 🤣*


He can’t be a “bigger jackass” than Jim Cornette tbh.


----------



## VIP86




----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

VIP86 said:


> View attachment 100554


*Like seriously, this had literally nothing to do with Cornette. I just ignore his bad attempts at bait at this point.*


----------



## DammitChrist

That's weird. You took the time to respond anyway (instead of directly quoting), but yet is still blatantly attempting to bait by doing so here.



VIP86 said:


> View attachment 100554


Nah, replace that hideous picture with Dave Meltzer instead, and it perfectly describes you folks who are getting upset about his tweets/news 

Now THAT'S an actual example of people like you getting rent-free.


----------



## VIP86

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Like seriously, this had literally nothing to do with Cornette. I just ignore his bad attempts at bait at this point.*


the problem is
because Hardcore fans are so emotionally attached to Tony Khan and the Elite and get triggered whenever anyone mention them even indirectly (Dave Meltzer is an extension)
they actually think when they mention Cornette they will trigger anyone who listens to him
in their minds, they think Cornette listeners are emotionally attached to him, as they are to anything AEW


----------



## DammitChrist

VIP86 said:


> the problem is
> because Hardcore fans are so emotionally attached to Tony Khan and the Elite and get triggered whenever anyone mention them even indirectly (Dave Meltzer is an extension)
> they actually think when they mention Cornette they will trigger anyone who listens to him
> in their minds, they think Cornette listeners are emotionally attached to him, as they are to anything AEW


If this is "true" (which it's obviously not), then why do Cornette listeners get so emotionally defensive whenever someone on here hilariously emasculates him :lol


----------



## El Hammerstone

VIP86 said:


> the problem is
> because Hardcore fans are so emotionally attached to Tony Khan and the Elite and get triggered whenever anyone mention them even indirectly (Dave Meltzer is an extension)
> they actually think when they mention Cornette they will trigger anyone who listens to him
> in their minds, they think Cornette listeners are emotionally attached to him, as they are to anything AEW


They're the people who take the whole "Cornette cult" thing way too literally.


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, replace that hideous picture with Dave Meltzer instead, and it perfectly describes you folks who are getting upset about his tweets/news
> 
> Now THAT'S an actual example of people like you getting rent-free.





DammitChrist said:


> If this is "true" (which it's obviously not), then why do Cornette listeners get so emotionally defensive whenever someone on here hilariously emasculates him :lol


i appreciate your attempts at Trolling 
but still, you need to get better at it

currently your attempts are not at the level that will make anyone upset
it's at the level that will make everyone laugh at it 

Get Better, and try again
with enough perseverance, i'm sure you could come up with something....smarter


----------



## DammitChrist

VIP86 said:


> i appreciate your attempts at Trolling
> but still, you need to get better at it
> 
> currently your attempts are not at the level that will make anyone upset
> it's at the level that will make everyone laugh at it
> 
> Get Better, and try again
> with enough perseverance, i'm sure you could come up with something....smarter


Except those posts are really genuine because it's absolutely hilarious to see that hate-spreading clown get roasted on here by various wrestling fans, so he deserves to get trashed on here; especially compared to someone like Meltzer who isn't even that much of a hack.

See, it's pretty easy to blindly assume that someone is "trolling" when you allow your emotional feelings for Cornette cloud your judgment and your thinking.

Please don't even try to generalize the wrestling fans because you'll just come across as unreasonable with misinterpretations like that.

Edit:

By all means, please feel free to pretend that you're "laughing" at those posts though ironically 😂


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> Except those posts are really genuine because it's absolutely hilarious to see that hate-spreading clown get roasted on here by various wrestling fans, so he deserves to get trashed on here; especially compared to someone like Meltzer who isn't even that much of a hack.
> 
> See, it's pretty easy to blindly assume that someone is "trolling" when you allow your emotional feelings for Cornette cloud your judgment and your thinking.


the problem with your argument is that you actually assume that people are emotionally attached to Cornette.
you know what this is called ?
it's called projection
you know very well that you're emotionally attached to those geeks, and you try to deflect it at others


DammitChrist said:


> Please don't even try to generalize the wrestling fans because you'll just come across as unreasonable with misinterpretations like that.


don't play the generalization card with me, it won't work


DammitChrist said:


> By all means, please feel free to pretend that you're "laughing" at those posts though ironically 😂


i'm not pretending, i'm genuinely laughing
i told you before that meltdowns from fanboys bring me so much joy
even more so than watching the garbage that Tony Khan puts on TV


----------



## ProjectGargano

VIP86 said:


> the problem with your argument is that you actually assume that people are emotionally attached to Cornette.
> you know what this is called ?
> it's called projection
> you know very well that you're emotionally attached to those geeks, and you try to deflect it at others
> 
> don't play the generalization card with me, it won't work
> 
> i'm not pretending, i'm genuinely laughing
> i told you before that meltdowns from fanboys bring me so much joy
> even more so than watching the garbage that Tony Khan puts on TV


Alert Cornette fanboy Alert


----------



## VIP86

ProjectGargano said:


> Alert Cornette fanboy Alert


is that the smartest thing your fanboy brain allows you to say ?
it's easy for me to say *Tony Khan as kisser in the house* for examble
if you want to enter a name calling competition
i'll advise you not to, because you will lose....badly


----------



## Dr. Middy

VIP86 said:


> i'm not pretending, i'm genuinely laughing
> i told you before that meltdowns from fanboys bring me so much joy
> even more so than watching the garbage that Tony Khan puts on TV


I don't really care about whatever conversation y'all are having but getting that much enjoyment out of that seems sad to me.


----------



## VIP86

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> I don't really care about whatever conversation y'all are having but getting that much enjoyment out of that seems sad to me.


doesn't change the fact that it's still enjoyable to me
plus, what's more sad than getting triggered because someone is criticizing a TV show


----------



## DammitChrist

VIP86 said:


> the problem with your argument is that you actually assume that people are emotionally attached to Cornette.
> you know what this is called ?
> it's called projection
> you know very well that you're emotionally attached to those geeks, and you try to deflect it at others


That's ironic that you're lecturing me about "projection" when you were VERY quick to generalize the wrestling fans and those who oppose Cornette's viewpoints.

Hell, you even used that lame "rent-free" meme on me even though he wasn't on my mind at all today (or all those other days prior) up until now :lol



> *don't play the generalization card with me,* it won't work


You just PULLED that crap on me a few moments ago (including in this response to me) 😂



> i'm not pretending, i'm genuinely laughing


Yes, sure you "are" even though you're clearly bitter here. That's very 'convincing' to me 



> i told you before that meltdowns from fanboys bring me so much joy
> even more so than watching the garbage that Tony Khan puts on TV


In other words, you just admitted indirectly that you're happy to bait the wrestling fans so that you can rain on their parade, which is pretty pathetic (which is expected by pessimistic anti-smarks at this point).



ProjectGargano said:


> Alert Cornette fanboy Alert


That's exactly what it is, dude.

I make* one *half-assed comment roasting that hack, and his Cornette cult must project their bitter emotions out on me :lol

This is partially why he's such a negative influence to the wrestling industry.


----------



## ProjectGargano

VIP86 said:


> is that the smartest thing your fanboy brain allows you to say ?
> it's easy for me to say *Tony Khan as kisser in the house* for examble
> if you want to enter a name calling competition
> i'll advise you not to, because you will lose....badly


You just admited, with all of these responses to @DammitChrist, that you are an AEW hater. From now, your posts will be irrelevant because you are marked as an AEW hater.


----------



## Dr. Middy

VIP86 said:


> doesn't change the fact that it's still enjoyable to me
> plus, what's more sad than getting triggered because someone is criticizing a TV show


Most threads end up with fanboys and detractors of the shows arguing about usually the same stuff, and sometimes getting triggered by each other. I just roll my eyes at it now, but if you find it entertaining more power to you I guess.


----------



## VIP86

ProjectGargano said:


> You just admited, with all of these responses to @DammitChrist, that you are an AEW hater. From now, your posts will be irrelevant because you are marked as an AEW hater.


the only people who mark others as haters are the blind ass kissing fan boys
so hello blind ass kissing fanboy
nice to meet you


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> That's ironic that you're lecturing me about "projection" when you were VERY quick to generalize the wrestling fans and those who oppose Cornette's viewpoints.
> 
> Hell, you even used that lame "rent-free" meme on me even though he wasn't on my mind at all today (or all those other days prior) up until now :lol
> 
> 
> 
> You just PULLED that crap on me a few moments ago (including in this response to me) 😂
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, sure you "are" even though you're clearly bitter here. That's very 'convincing' to me
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, you just admitted indirectly that you're happy to bait the wrestling fans so that you can rain on their parade, which is pretty pathetic (which is expected by pessimistic anti-smarks at this point).
> 
> 
> 
> That's exactly what it is, dude.
> 
> I make* one *half-assed comment roasting that hack, and his Cornette cult must project their bitter emotions out on me :lol
> 
> This is partially why he's such a negative influence to the wrestling industry.


your trolling level is still subpar

i see that the Cornette picture really triggered you
despite the fact that i didn't even quote you when i posted it the first time

but i will fix this mistake now
here it is one more time, directed at you


----------



## One Shed

ProjectGargano said:


> You just admited, with all of these responses to @DammitChrist, that you are an AEW hater. From now, your posts will be irrelevant because you are marked as an AEW hater.


People are allowed to criticize the dumb things a company does. There is no such thing as all good or all bad. Way too two dimensional, black and white thinking.


----------



## Klitschko

Is DammitChrist an anti-anti-smark?


----------



## VIP86

Klitschko said:


> Is DammitChrist an anti-anti-smark?


aren't we all smarks ?
since we all in a forum dedicated for wrestling


----------



## Klitschko

VIP86 said:


> aren't we all smarks ?
> since we all in a forum dedicated for wrestling


I dont even know anymore brother. DammitChrist says differently.


----------



## One Shed

VIP86 said:


> aren't we all smarks ?
> since we all in a forum dedicated for wrestling


A few people online changed the meaning of a widely accepted term so therefore it must mean that other thing now and there must be another group of people anti-that.


----------



## Dr. Middy

We make hundreds of posts on a wrestling forum.

We're all smarks buds. Embrace it!


----------



## VIP86

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> We make hundreds of posts on a wrestling forum.
> 
> We're all smarks buds. Embrace it!


self accepting smarks are a dying breed 
now nobody wants to be identified as such


----------



## ProjectGargano

Two Sheds said:


> People are allowed to criticize the dumb things a company does. There is no such thing as all good or all bad. Way too two dimensional, black and white thinking.


Of course they are, and i respect you or @RapShepard for the constructive criticism, but the guy is just calling the product "trash" or "garbage" and not giving any constructive criticism. That is just dumb.


----------



## VIP86

if criticizing is dumb
then blindly praising is dumber
just saying 🤯


----------



## One Shed

ProjectGargano said:


> Of course they are, and i respect you or @RapShepard for the constructive criticism, but the guy is just calling the product "trash" or "garbage" and not giving any constructive criticism. That is just dumb.


I think he is just giving DC a little taste of his own medicine for going after Boss and bringing up the inevitable Cornette strawman when the issue was clearly Meltzer's nonsensical way to describe a buy rate. I talked to a company yesterday who told me they sold 30 times more product the day before than the last sale they had. See how that does not really give you any usable information?


----------



## DammitChrist

Two Sheds said:


> I think he is just giving DC a little taste of his own medicine for going after Boss and bringing up the inevitable Cornette strawman when the issue was clearly Meltzer's nonsensical way to describe a buy rate. I talked to a company yesterday who told me they sold 30 times more product the day before than the last sale they had. See how that does not really give you any usable information?


Nah, I’m rejecting whatever “medicine” he’s failing to give me here tbh. 

That still doesn’t take away from my points about him being a negative influence to the industry (instead of providing anything substantial like Meltzer actually does).

I don’t see how Meltzer’s speculation/news is in any way “worse” than Cornette’s nonsensical takes, but I guess this is expected from his hardcore followers who are easily influenced by his negativity and bitterness.


----------



## ProjectGargano

VIP86 said:


> if criticizing is dumb
> then blindly praising is dumber
> just saying 🤯


Why wouldn´t I praise them, if i enjoy the most part of the product? When you criticize you have to provide arguments, not call the product "Garbage", that is not a critic.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, I’m rejecting whatever “medicine” he’s failing to give me here tbh.
> 
> That still doesn’t take away from my points about him being a negative influence to the industry (instead of providing anything substantial like Meltzer actually does).
> 
> I don’t see how Meltzer’s speculation/news is in any way “worse” than Cornette’s nonsensical takes, but I guess this is expected from his hardcore followers who are easily influenced by his negativity and bitterness.


Meltzer provides false narratives, spin on stories that either cannot be verified or turn out not to be true. Mabel was almost the third man right? And then he provides usually accurate gate numbers that could be retrieved by anyone by just researching the event or calling the venue. He spent decades like an outcast staring through the window at a cool party because no one wanted him there. As soon as the nerds threw their own party and invited him in, of course he is going to say their party is the best one, right?

Corny has spent 40 years in the business making money, helping others make money, growing the business, and developing new talents for the future. Meltzer wrote a lot of words, mostly tearing down much more successful companies than exist today, while contributing nothing substantial to the actual business of wrestling. It is easy to see who has helped the business more.

Cornette also espouses free advice and it is clear everyone in AEW listens to his shows whether or not they actually implement said things. Cornette gives his opinion. Meltzer gives numbers no one can actually verify as "facts." So it is worse, especially when so much of what he says turns out to be not true. Him phrasing things like "the second least bad match" just to try and spin everything he possibly can is so blindly disingenuous.

Corny at least calls it as he sees it even if you disagree with his takes. He is not trying to kiss up to anyone for access.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Two Sheds said:


> Meltzer provides false narratives, spin on stories that either cannot be verified or turn out not to be true. Mabel was almost the third man right? And then he provides usually accurate gate numbers that could be retrieved by anyone by just researching the event or calling the venue. He spent decades like an outcast staring through the window at a cool party because no one wanted him there. As soon as the nerds threw their own party and invited him in, of course he is going to say their party is the best one, right?
> 
> Corny has spent 40 years in the business making money, helping others make money, growing the business, and developing new talents for the future. Meltzer wrote a lot of words, mostly tearing down much more successful companies than exist today, while contributing nothing substantial to the actual business of wrestling. It is easy to see who has helped the business more.
> 
> Cornette also espouses free advice and it is clear everyone in AEW listens to his shows whether or not they actually implement said things. Cornette gives his opinion. Meltzer gives numbers no one can actually verify as "facts." So it is worse, especially when so much of what he says turns out to be not true. Him phrasing things like "the second least bad match" just to try and spin everything he possibly can is so blindly disingenuous.
> 
> Corny at least calls it as he sees it even if you disagree with his takes. He is not trying to kiss up to anyone for access.


*I love your posts whether I agree or disagree because you always give a level-headed response with an excellent explanation.*


----------



## DammitChrist

Two Sheds said:


> Meltzer provides false narratives, spin on stories that either cannot be verified or turn out not to be true. Mabel was almost the third man right? And then he provides usually accurate gate numbers that could be retrieved by anyone by just researching the event or calling the venue. He spent decades like an outcast staring through the window at a cool party because no one wanted him there. As soon as the nerds threw their own party and invited him in, of course he is going to say their party is the best one, right?
> 
> Corny has spent 40 years in the business making money, helping others make money, growing the business, and developing new talents for the future. Meltzer wrote a lot of words, mostly tearing down much more successful companies than exist today, while contributing nothing substantial to the actual business of wrestling. It is easy to see who has helped the business more.
> 
> Cornette also espouses free advice and it is clear everyone in AEW listens to his shows whether or not they actually implement said things. Cornette gives his opinion. Meltzer gives numbers no one can actually verify as "facts." So it is worse, especially when so much of what he says turns out to be not true. Him phrasing things like "the second least bad match" just to try and spin everything he possibly can is so blindly disingenuous.
> 
> Corny at least calls it as he sees it even if you disagree with his takes. He is not trying to kiss up to anyone for access.


I’ll honestly take a reasonable journalist (who provides his news whether they are accurate or not and who gives his opinions/speculations with no bad intentions) over a bitter podcaster (who’s out of touch with modern wrestling with ridiculously outdated takes as well as someone who indirectly encourages his cult followers to spread hate over anything fun within the industry). 

Yea, your supposedly ‘excellent’ explanation really did nothing to convince me that Meltzer is somehow “worse” than that other guy :lol


----------



## One Shed

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I love your posts whether I agree or disagree because you always give a level-headed response with an excellent explanation.*


I find it a lot more useful than just arguing against the strawman position I WANT the person to hold that I am talking to. Then people just end up talking past each other to try and prop themselves up.

Example:

Me: Cornette thinks 2+2=4.

Strawman arguer: oh yeah, well in 1986 that same man said words that made people angry.

Me: First, that was literally his job. And second, even if we found out he killed 12 people in his basement over the past few years, how would that actually have any relevance to the first statement being correct or not?

Classic ad hominem fallacy.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Two Sheds said:


> I find it a lot more useful than just arguing against the strawman position I WANT the person to hold than I am talking to. Then people just end up talking past each other to try and prop themselves up.
> 
> Example:
> 
> Me: Cornette thinks 2+2=4.
> 
> Strawman arguer: oh yeah, well in 1986 that same man said words that made people angry.
> 
> Me: First, that was literally his job. And second, even if we found out he killed 12 people in his basement over the past few years, how would that actually have any relevance to the first statement being correct or not?
> 
> Classic ad hominem fallacy.


*It's really sad how they can't counter the argument of why AEW is awful, so they attack Cornette and his fans out of nowhere.*


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> I’ll honestly take a reasonable journalist (who provides his news whether they are accurate or not and who gives his opinions/speculations with no bad intentions) over a bitter podcaster (who’s out of touch with modern wrestling with ridiculously outdated takes as well as someone who indirectly encourages his cult followers to spread hate over anything fun within the industry).
> 
> Yea, your supposedly ‘excellent’ explanation really did nothing to convince me that Meltzer is somehow “worse” than that other guy :lol


I read that as "Yeah, Meltzer can be completely full of BS a lot, but he likes what I like, so that makes him better to me." Fair enough.

Cornette is bitter all the way to the bank every month. Mr. Out of Touch was one of the first people Tony talked to when forming AEW, said no to a job with AEW, and laughed when Jericho told him to just shut up and he would be paid.

Most wrestling fans are no longer watching any wrestling products. Mathematically that is a strong case that the current products being presented are out of touch with what most wrestling fans are interested in seeing.

It is like when Hollywood makes a mediocre or crappy remake and the fans of the original shit all over it. Does that make them out of touch or the new thing just not as good?


----------



## VIP86

ProjectGargano said:


> Why wouldn´t I praise them, if i enjoy the most part of the product?


when did i say you shouldn't praise them ?
you can praise them as much as you like, i don't care
but when you get triggered when i say something about them, that's when i do care
is this concept so hard to grasp ?


ProjectGargano said:


> When you criticize you have to provide arguments, not call the product "Garbage", that is not a critic.


i did, countless times, in multiple threads
go back and look
it's not my responsibility to recite them again every time someone gets triggered


----------



## DammitChrist

VIP86 said:


> when did i say you shouldn't praise them ?
> you can praise them as much as you like, i don't care
> but when you get triggered when i say something about them, that's when i do care
> is this concept so hard to grasp ?
> 
> i did, countless times, in multiple threads
> go back and look
> it's not my responsibility to recite them again every time someone gets triggered


Hey, let’s not get triggered now just because a wrestling fan is actually enjoying a good product


----------



## DammitChrist

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *It's really sad how they can't counter the argument of why AEW is awful, so they attack Cornette and his fans out of nowhere.*


It’s really pathetic how you continue to push this false narrative about how the show is “awful” down the fans’ throats just because you’re too bitter enough to rain on their parade. After all, you must come up with every excuse in the rule book too, and listen to that clown like a good little follower :lol

Perhaps, take some notes on being rational instead of being pessimistic for the sake of it?


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> Hey, let’s not get triggered now just because a wrestling fan is actually enjoying a good product


aha, again you're projecting
i'm not the one who almost had a mental breakdown because of a picture of someone "irrelevant"
don't blame me for pointing to the stupidity and laugh


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> Hey, let’s not get triggered now just because a wrestling fan is actually enjoying a good product


Come on DC you've been triggered as of late. You yourself have admitted you see it as your duty to defend AEW and go against people being too negative for your liking.


----------



## DammitChrist

VIP86 said:


> aha, again you're projecting
> i'm not the one who almost had a mental breakdown because of a picture of someone "irrelevant"
> don't blame me for pointing to the stupidity and laugh


A “mental breakdown” implies that I raged uncontrollably on here, which I didn’t considering how calmly and how well so responded to that silly meme. 

At least try to use that term in the right context 

For the record, Cornette IS irrelevant considering the fact that his future will be nothing more than just being a delusional scumbag who’s the equivalent of an old man yelling at a cloud. 

Honestly, your obvious hatred over fellow wrestling fans who enjoy the product and lumping them all in one petty label is pretty much the definition of you projecting tbh.



RapShepard said:


> Come on DC you've been triggered as of late. You yourself have admitted you see it as your duty to defend AEW and go against people being too negative for your liking.


Nah, I just call out obvious BS when I see it. 

It’s really (more so) me defending the passionate fans tbh. They’re the ones getting unnecessary grief for being optimistic about wrestling in general :lol


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Two Sheds said:


> I read that as "Yeah, Meltzer can be completely full of BS a lot, but he likes what I like, so that makes him better to me." Fair enough.
> 
> Cornette is bitter all the way to the bank every month. Mr. Out of Touch was one of the first people Tony talked to when forming AEW, said no to a job with AEW, and laughed when Jericho told him to just shut up and he would be paid.
> 
> Most wrestling fans are no longer watching any wrestling products. Mathematically that is a strong case that the current products being presented are out of touch with what most wrestling fans are interested in seeing.
> 
> It is like when Hollywood makes a mediocre or crappy remake and the fans of the original shit all over it. Does that make them out of touch or the new thing just not as good?


*I think it's hilarious how they try so desperately to convince us that Cornette is irrelevant and out of touch, yet their hero Tony Khan has asked him to work there multiple times. We've got tweets from 2020 of Jericho begging him to stop speaking ill of the product and to become a paid consultant. Like, at least try to attack the issue because the ad hominem is beyond embarrassing at this point. *


----------



## RapShepard

Anyway has anybody got actual proof of that buy rate or Dave saying that buy rate. I know folk twist his words a lot.


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> A “mental breakdown” implies that I raged uncontrollably on here, which I didn’t considering how calmly and how well so responded to that silly meme.
> 
> At least try to use that term in the right context


do you even read your own posts ?
you did rage uncontrollably 😄 
and the fact you're still angry about this "silly meme" proves it


DammitChrist said:


> For the record, Cornette IS irrelevant considering the fact that his future will be nothing more than just being a delusional scumbag who’s the equivalent of an old man yelling at a cloud.


still triggered much about the irrelevant man 
don't forget that you're the one who mentioned him first in your response to BOSS without a reason


DammitChrist said:


> Honestly, your obvious hatred over fellow wrestling fans who enjoy the product and lumping them all in one petty label is pretty much the definition of you projecting tbh.


still not good at trolling, but i enjoy it nonetheless


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, I just call out obvious BS when I see it.
> 
> It’s really (more so) me defending the passionate fans tbh. *They’re the ones getting unnecessary grief* for being optimistic about wrestling in general [emoji38]


Neither side are innocent here, you're not doing anything honorable lol. Just not really adding to discussions when you used to actually do that.


----------



## Dr. Middy

VIP86 said:


> self accepting smarks are a dying breed
> now nobody wants to be identified as such


Eh, I don't see any reason why I should be ashamed in watching it or something. Everybody that knows me knows I love it and always am watching it. 

Besides, people will constantly talk about stuff like Temptation Island and other pretty overall horrible reality shows, so I could like worse things haha.


----------



## VIP86

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> Eh, I don't see any reason why I should be ashamed in watching it or something. Everybody that knows me knows I love it and always am watching it.
> 
> Besides, people will constantly talk about stuff like Temptation Island and other pretty overall horrible reality shows, so I could like worse things haha.


we all have our guilty pleasures when it comes to entertainment or even sports


----------



## One Shed

RapShepard said:


> Anyway has anybody got actual proof of that buy rate or Dave saying that buy rate. I know folk twist his words a lot.


This is what he said:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1387556294358290432
now notice how it contains no actual, usable information. How many PPVs since August? 8th highest means what exactly? Out of how many? It MIGHT have been a huge number, but it could mean that the PPV company in Kenny's home town sold 63 instead of 7. It could also be something pulled out of his ass since it is unverifiable. As it is, it is just spin.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Two Sheds said:


> This is what he said:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1387556294358290432
> now notice how it contains no actual, usable information. How many PPVs since August? 8th highest means what exactly? Out of how many? It MIGHT have been a huge number, but it could mean that the PPV company in Kenny's home town sold 63 instead of 7. It could also be something pulled out of his ass since it is unverifiable. As it is, it is just spin.


*Just more of the "least best match."*


----------



## DammitChrist

VIP86 said:


> do you even read your own posts ?
> you did rage uncontrollably 😄
> and the fact you're still angry about this "silly meme" proves it


Except there’s NO anger here at all. That’s basically just you projecting your bitterness to me, and throwing out false assumptions here 😂

If there’s any anger that I have atm, it’s due to Smackdown’s main-event scene officially jumping the shark last night. 

I can’t even get excited about Cesaro FINALLY getting a well-deserved world title shot because I just know he’s getting built up just to get sacrificed before moving back down in the midcard scene afterwards without getting elevated (just like Kevin Owens did earlier this year).

However, there’s really no anger here with Cornette. He’s a complete joke. 



> still triggered much about the irrelevant man
> don't forget that you're the one who mentioned him first in your response to BOSS without a reason


Yea, I mentioned Cornette (to correct someone too btw) because it’s fun to kick a scumbag while he’s still a miserable joke. I do the same for #45 because it’s really satisfying to rip on 2 old hacks like them 



> still not good at trolling, but i enjoy it nonetheless


I’m pretty sure that my posts are still genuine. There’s really no “trolling” here at all.

Seriously, did you return a couple of months ago just to rain on the parade of passionate wrestling fans on here (because it’s beginning to look really obvious atm)? 

If so, then that absence beforehand wasn’t missed


----------



## Dr. Middy

RapShepard said:


> Anyway has anybody got actual proof of that buy rate or Dave saying that buy rate. I know folk twist his words a lot.


I'm a subscriber, here's what he mentions in the Newsletter this week about it. 



> The show appeared to have been the most successful PPV show for the promotion in many years. We don’t have numbers past that the streaming numbers as of the start of the show were ahead of total numbers of buys for any show since Anthem purchased the company from Dixie Carter and was the largest streaming number in the company’s history. On television PPV, based on numbers from one major company, this did almost exactly double of what Hard to Kill did and seven times the total buys and right now nine times the paid buys of Bound for Glory. And keep in mind that the television number with late buys for this show should increase another 10 percent from a figure this early. It’s way ahead of the numbers they were doing the last several years on Spike, but is nowhere near the company’s peak for Kurt Angle’s matches with Samoa Joe and Sting. I don’t have the actual streaming number so can’t estimate the total just yet but should have a better idea next week, but television looks to have been 9,300 as of early in the week and streaming numbers were believed to have been a far larger number than that.


Seems like they'll be more data on this in the coming week regarding that. 

If you mean the AEW Revolution show, then he mentions this:



> We got complete PPV figures dating back several months from one of the leading PPV providers.
> 
> These are not definitive numbers but do represent millions of homes with PPV.
> 
> The key is that most PPV shows these days are doing very small numbers, with really AEW and boxing carrying things.
> The biggest note is that based on the percentage from this company, AEW looks to have done 71,600 buys on television PPV for the Revolution show on 3/7, a number that blows away any prior expectations. This isn’t to say that was the number they did, but it is based on a sample of several million homes. The show was believed to have done 87,000 viewers based on streaming in the U.S. and international, and given how previous big shows have done, the belief was television PPV would come in at 35,000 to 50,000, hence estimates of 122,000 to 137,000 total buys for the show, which would be the largest for any pro wrestling show other than WWE since 1999. But with this estimate, the number looks closer to 159,000 total buys, or the total show gross of about $7 million, far above previous reports.


----------



## RapShepard

taker1986 said:


> View attachment 100522
> thats a great success






Two Sheds said:


> This is what he said:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1387556294358290432
> now notice how it contains no actual, usable information. How many PPVs since August? 8th highest means what exactly? Out of how many? It MIGHT have been a huge number, but it could mean that the PPV company in Kenny's home town sold 63 instead of 7. It could also be something pulled out of his ass since it is unverifiable. As it is, it is just spin.


I know the tweet, was asking about the tweet above



The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> I'm a subscriber, here's what he mentions in the Newsletter this week about it.
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like they'll be more data on this in the coming week regarding that.
> 
> If you mean the AEW Revolution show, then he mentions this:


So basically no solid number as of now but guesses it's between just under 100k to mid 100k. Though I guess it's fair to assume it's one of the best selling (top 10) Impact PPVs ever in it's 2 decade history. The question now is just if it's the best selling non-WWE or WCW show ever. 

Is that a fair assessment since you actually are a member?


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> Except there’s NO anger here at all. That’s basically just you projecting your bitterness to me, and throwing out false assumptions here 😂


i'm not going to repeat everything i said over and over and over again
you know very well you got triggered by this picture
whether you were really angry or not, doesn't matter
because all your posts imply that this picture struck a nerve


DammitChrist said:


> If there’s any anger that I have atm, it’s due to Smackdown’s main-event scene officially jumping the shark last night.
> 
> I can’t even get excited about Cesaro FINALLY getting a well-deserved world title shot because I just know he’s getting built up just to get sacrificed before moving back down in the midcard scene afterwards without getting elevated (just like Kevin Owens did earlier this year).


i do respect you have the power to endure watching WWE
i can't do it.


DammitChrist said:


> Yea, I mentioned Cornette (to correct someone too btw) because it’s fun to kick a scumbag while he’s still a miserable joke. I do the same for #45 because it’s really satisfying to rip on 2 old hacks like them


nope, you mentioned Cornette because BOSS mentioned Meltzer
and you thought to yourself that this will upset him because he listens to Cornette


DammitChrist said:


> I’m pretty sure that my posts are still genuine. There’s really no “trolling” here at all.


you can Troll people and still be genuine
you're just using your "genuine" points to troll people


DammitChrist said:


> Seriously, did you return a couple of months ago just to rain on the parade of passionate wrestling fans on here (because it’s beginning to look really obvious atm)?
> 
> If so, then that absence beforehand wasn’t missed


Gatekeeping is not fun


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Since DammitC obsessively made the ratings thread about Cornette, here are his thoughts on the ratings:





They're doing the same shit that Russo got crucified for in TNA by booking for temporary ratings spikes instead of PPV buys. That's why they can never recover from massive drops without advertising another celebrity or major match. They hit 952,000 with Shaq and never matched or exceeded it until NXT moved to Tuesday and the over 50 crowd peeked their heads in. It took AEW two weeks to lose them, so now they'll spike again with the Blood and Guts match and start dropping again until they repeat the cycle with more hotshot booking.

This kind of shit is part of exactly what killed WCW. They gave away Hogan vs Goldberg on free TV and cost themselves tens of millions of dollars in PPV revenue. This was the beginning of the end. Their booking cycle is not sustainable and will actually cripple them more than anything.*


----------



## DammitChrist

VIP86 said:


> i'm not going to repeat everything i said over and over and over again
> you know very well you got triggered by this picture
> whether you were really angry or not, doesn't matter
> because all your posts imply that this picture struck a nerve


Refer to my previous post. I’m not repeating myself to you AGAIN.



> i do respect you have the power to endure watching WWE
> i can't do it.


I have a lot of favorites in WWE, and I enjoy many wrestlers in their roster. 

Many of them just aren’t being pushed big time atm, which is actually like the first time since mid-2017 that very few of my favorites are around the main-event scene. 



> nope, you mentioned Cornette because BOSS mentioned Meltzer
> and you thought to yourself that this will upset him because he listens to Cornette


Nah, it’s extremely satisfying bashing that bitter clown in Cornette. Again, refer to my previous post because I already explained myself previously to you.



> you can Troll people and still be genuine
> you're just using your "genuine" points to troll people


Come on, man. You’re just contradicting yourself here now.



> Gatekeeping is not fun


I was just paranoid for a moment there


----------



## DammitChrist

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I think it's hilarious how they try so desperately to convince us that Cornette is irrelevant and out of touch, yet their hero Tony Khan has asked him to work there multiple times. We've got tweets from 2020 of Jericho begging him to stop speaking ill of the product and to become a paid consultant. Like, at least try to attack the issue because the ad hominem is beyond embarrassing at this point. *


For the record, it’s really embarrassing that you’re going to extreme lengths to defend a bitter clown who doesn’t even give a damn about your existence on here. That’s truly hilarious and sad :lol 

The fact that the company is STILL succeeding in 2021 (due to their good product btw) in spite of Cornette pretty much goes to show you how out-of-touch he truly is with his ridiculous opinions regarding modern wrestling. His cult followers and the toxic anti-smarks seem to be the only ones who actually take Cornette’s word seriously. Thankfully, they’re the vocal minority who gets drowned out by the passionate wrestling fans.

He clearly doesn’t have the balls to sign with the company since he’s afraid of being proven wrong with his outdated takes. Instead, he’d rather expose himself as a bitter, angry clown to everyone (at least to those who actually have a clue) :lol


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> Refer to my previous post. I’m not repeating myself to you AGAIN.





DammitChrist said:


> Nah, it’s extremely satisfying bashing that bitter clown in Cornette. Again, refer to my previous post because I already explained myself previously to you.


i did Refer to your previous posts
they still say you got angry because of the "silly meme"
and because people are making fun of Meltzer


but if you agree that it’s extremely satisfying bashing public figures (especially if you disagree with them)
then why do you get angry when someone is talking about your favorites ? (who are also public figures)
doesn't sound fair to me


DammitChrist said:


> Come on, man. You’re just contradicting yourself here now.


not at all
it simply means you are using the points that you believe in
in situation that didn't require them
(hence you mentioning Cornette outta nowhere in your response to BOSS)


----------



## Dr. Middy

RapShepard said:


> I know the tweet, was asking about the tweet above
> 
> So basically no solid number as of now but guesses it's between just under 100k to mid 100k. Though I guess it's fair to assume it's one of the best selling (top 10) Impact PPVs ever in it's 2 decade history. The question now is just if it's the best selling non-WWE or WCW show ever.
> 
> Is that a fair assessment since you actually are a member?


Sorry, but I'm kinda confused how you worded what you just wrote. Did you combine what I quoted there to be about Impact only? 

Dave seemed to have less numbers regarding the Impact PPV as compared to Revolution (which doesn't surprise me he'd have better access to AEW numbers honestly). 

But as for the Impact numbers, their highest PPVs were around 40-50K overall I believe, and if Dave doesn't think they are anywhere near that, my guess would be 20-30K overall or something (maybe even higher than 35K), which is really good considering they were doing much less than that all the way back in 2012 and beyond when they were still on Spike.

I highly doubt they are near 100K considering that would mean like 75%+ of their audience bought the show, which would be unheard of.


----------



## yeahright2

VIP86 said:


> i appreciate your attempts at Trolling
> but still, you need to get better at it
> 
> currently your attempts are not at the level that will make anyone upset
> it's at the level that will make everyone laugh at it
> 
> Get Better, and try again
> with enough perseverance, i'm sure you could come up with something....smarter


You´re really wasting your time arguing with him.


DammitChrist said:


> *For the record, it’s really embarrassing that you’re going to extreme lengths to defend a bitter clown who doesn’t even give a damn about your existence on here. That’s truly hilarious and sad :lol*


I really thought you were referring to Meltzer here. He´s bitter that he doesn´t have any real sources in WWE anymore, so he goes to extreme lengths to praise AEW as a huge success, to the point where his already dwindling number of followers is beginning to see through it.


DammitChrist said:


> The fact that the company is STILL succeeding in 2021 (due to their good product btw) in spite of Cornette pretty much goes to show you how out-of-touch he truly is with his ridiculous opinions regarding modern wrestling. His cult followers and the toxic anti-smarks seem to be the only ones who actually take Cornette’s word seriously. Thankfully, they’re the vocal minority who gets drowned out by the passionate wrestling fans.


They´re successful to an extent. But it doesn´t say anything about Cornette being out of touch. If you don´t like his opinions, fine, you´re entitled to that. But don´t pretend he doesn´t know anything about wrestling.


DammitChrist said:


> *He clearly doesn’t have the balls to sign with the company since he’s afraid of being proven wrong with his outdated takes. Instead, he’d rather expose himself as a bitter, angry clown to everyone (at least to those who actually have a clue) :lol*


He has been asked several times and said no every time. They need him more than he needs them. This is well documented, so I don´t really see the point to try and make an agenda about how he´s scared. It just makes everything you say look stupid.


----------



## RapShepard

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> Sorry, but I'm kinda confused how you worded what you just wrote. Did you combine what I quoted there to be about Impact only?
> 
> Dave seemed to have less numbers regarding the Impact PPV as compared to Revolution (which doesn't surprise me he'd have better access to AEW numbers honestly).
> 
> But as for the Impact numbers, their highest PPVs were around 40-50K overall I believe, and if Dave doesn't think they are anywhere near that, my guess would be 20-30K overall or something (maybe even higher than 35K), which is really good considering they were doing much less than that all the way back in 2012 and beyond when they were still on Spike.
> 
> I highly doubt they are near 100K considering that would mean like 75%+ of their audience bought the show, which would be unheard of.


I was basically asking if Meltzer was saying Impact Rebellion 2021 is somewhere between one of the biggest PPVs Impact/TNA ever and possibly the biggest PPV ever by a company not named WWE or WCW?


----------



## Dr. Middy

RapShepard said:


> I was basically asking if Meltzer was saying Impact Rebellion 2021 is somewhere between one of the biggest PPVs Impact/TNA ever and possibly the biggest PPV ever by a company not named WWE or WCW?


Ah got it. I think it's one of their biggest in a long, long time according to what he said, and is very likely to be the best they've done since leaving Spike. 

As for the biggest ever by a company that isn't WWE or WCW? Pretty much a 100% no there.


----------



## RapShepard

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> Ah got it. I think it's one of their biggest in a long, long time according to what he said, and is very likely to be the best they've done since leaving Spike.
> 
> As for the biggest ever by a company that isn't WWE or WCW? Pretty much a 100% no there.


Got you because that one account saying they Impact did 150k+ buys would've made it the biggest non WWE/WCW PPV ever right? 

Either way I think we can gather by today's standards Kenny is a draw to a degree that deserves acknowledging.


----------



## DammitChrist

yeahright2 said:


> You´re really wasting your time arguing with him.
> 
> I really thought you were referring to Meltzer here. He´s bitter that he doesn´t have any real sources in WWE anymore, so he goes to extreme lengths to praise AEW as a huge success, to the point where his already dwindling number of followers is beginning to see through it.
> 
> They´re successful to an extent. But it doesn´t say anything about Cornette being out of touch. If you don´t like his opinions, fine, you´re entitled to that. But don´t pretend he doesn´t know anything about wrestling.
> 
> He has been asked several times and said no every time. They need him more than he needs them. This is well documented, so I don´t really see the point to try and make an agenda about how he´s scared. It just makes everything you say look stupid.


You got it twisted, dude. He’s the one wasting MY time with how defensive he’s getting over 1 short comment 😂

Nah, the company will survive for a long time just fine without Cornette around. In fact, I’m willing to bet that it’ll outlast him too. They really don’t need him at all. They already have enough experienced veterans that actually do have a clue about what fans want regarding modern wrestling. He’s too much of a coward to put his money where his mouth is, and actually do something productive FOR that company; so instead, he resorts to lowering himself (even further) by catering to the nonsensical anti-smarks, which is pretty much the equivalent of an old man yelling at a cloud.

I don’t get that same vibe with Meltzer at all. The guy usually does his job, and he typically minds his own business; but yet somehow triggers some (of the petty) folks just because his speculations/news are too broad, or how he enjoys certain promotions and matches more than others. He’s really not the “hack” that his critics think he is here.

He’s definitely worth taking seriously more than the other guy. It’s pretty much what started the outrage on here to begin with. God forbid that he shares some statistics that don’t cater to what the critics want to see 😂

Anyway, no, it’d actually be foolish to oppose me on this one. I stand by what I said about that clown, and I’m pretty damn confident about it too (or else I’d bite my tongue on this one) 



RapShepard said:


> @DammitChrist *has just been having a meltdown the last few months* that's all. He wants smoke with detractors lol


No, I am really not at all :kobe

Quit ignoring my calm tone.

Edit:

For the record, it’s good to see that Kenny Omega draws to some extent


----------



## CM Buck

DammitChrist said:


> For the record, it’s really embarrassing that you’re going to extreme lengths to defend a bitter clown who doesn’t even give a damn about your existence on here. That’s truly hilarious and sad :lol
> 
> The fact that the company is STILL succeeding in 2021 (due to their good product btw) in spite of Cornette pretty much goes to show you how out-of-touch he truly is with his ridiculous opinions regarding modern wrestling. His cult followers and the toxic anti-smarks seem to be the only ones who actually take Cornette’s word seriously. Thankfully, they’re the vocal minority who gets drowned out by the passionate wrestling fans.
> 
> He clearly doesn’t have the balls to sign with the company since he’s afraid of being proven wrong with his outdated takes. Instead, he’d rather expose himself as a bitter, angry clown to everyone (at least to those who actually have a clue) :lol


Boss is not a toxic anti smark or some cult follower. Quit labelling people. This labelling is fucking toxic.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

RapShepard said:


> Got you because that one account saying they Impact did 150k+ buys would've made it the biggest non WWE/WCW PPV ever right?
> 
> Either way I think we can gather by today's standards Kenny is a draw to a degree that deserves acknowledging.


Guess I'll jump in here to say there's absolutely no way in hell Rebellion did that many buys. The biggest buyrate TNA ever did was around 60K and Meltzer says right here that Rebellion did nowhere near that.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1387556985705418756
It's hard to find numbers for Impact's buyrates as they don't release them but I did find this. "The WON reports that the show, which took place on Sunday, has an early estimate of 1,500 buys. That’s the same number as last year’s Slammiversary but below the more recent Impact Rebellion (2,000) and Impact Homecoming (3,100). It is also almost the same as ROH’s Best in the World PPV." That was for 2019 so it gives some idea of a general number.

TNA's best buyrate in 2010 was 20K and that was 11 years ago when they had a much bigger audience. They always did poorly on PPV, probably due to them hotshotting shit all over TV. AEW thus far has done a far better job of getting their TV audience to buy their shows.

Per the WWE/WCW thing, ECW had a PPV in December 2000 that drew around 100K buys because people thought it would be its last show ever. Pretty much doubled Starrcade 2000's buyrate. It is true that AEW is outdrawing WCW's buyrates from late 99-01 as those were usually around 50K with some fluctuations. Spring Stampede 2000 and Bash at the Beach 2000 were WCW's last buyrates to be around 100K.

I have no real skin in this, I just like talking about this stuff cause I know too much about it lul.


----------



## RapShepard

Firefromthegods said:


> Boss is not a toxic anti smark or some cult follower. Quit labelling people. This labelling is fucking toxic.


@DammitChrist has just been having a meltdown the last few months that's all. He wants smoke with detractors lol



kennykiller12 said:


> Guess I'll jump in here to say there's absolutely no way in hell Rebellion did that many buys. The biggest buyrate TNA ever did was around 60K and Meltzer says right here that Rebellion did nowhere near that.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1387556985705418756
> TNA's best buyrate in 2010 was 20K and that was 11 years ago now when they had a much bigger audience. They always did poorly on PPV, probably due in part to them hotshotting shit all over TV so people just saved their money. AEW thus far has done a far better job of getting their TV audience to buy their shows.
> 
> Per the WWE/WCW thing, ECW had a PPV in December 2000 that drew around 100K buys because people thought it would be its last show ever. Pretty much doubled Starrcade 2000's buyrate. It is true that AEW is outdrawing WCW's buyrates from late 99-01 as those were usually around 50K with some fluctuations. Spring Stampede 2000 and Bash at the Beach 2000 were WCW's last buyrates to be around 100K.


Never say never, but it would be out of this world shocking if they did those types of numbers. I'm guessing like 40k-60k. But 150k plus for an ending we all assumed seems wild.


----------



## VIP86

wikipedia says that Lockdown (2008) purchases for the event was believed to be 55,000.
and if Dave Meltzer is saying It wasn't close to that
then we at least know that Rebellion buys was a lot less than 55,000


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

VIP86 said:


> wikipedia says that Lockdown (2008) purchases for the event was believed to be 55,000.
> and if Dave Meltzer is saying It wasn't close to that
> then we at least know that Rebellion buys was a lot less than 55,000


*Which would make Meltzer's AEW overhype more embarrassing than usual.*


----------



## DammitChrist

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Which would make Meltzer's AEW overhype more embarrassing than usual.*


There's really nothing wrong or embarrassing with his hype about a promotion he actually enjoys tbh.


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> There's really nothing wrong or embarrassing with his hype about a promotion he actually enjoys tbh.


if he's a normal fan like you or me, i would agree with you 100%
but Dave Meltzer is a journalist
a journalist's job is to report the news accurately
without overhyping or exaggeration or twisting to sound more impressive


----------



## RapShepard

VIP86 said:


> wikipedia says that Lockdown (2008) purchases for the event was believed to be 55,000.
> and if Dave Meltzer is saying It wasn't close to that
> then we at least know that Rebellion buys was a lot less than 55,000


Tbf to him I think in that case he was separating the types of PPV buys. 

2nd hand information wise it seems like this is allegedly one of, if not the best internet streaming Impact/TNA PPVs ever. As well as a damn good traditional TV PPV buy event for Impact/TNA given the current landscape of things.


----------



## VIP86

RapShepard said:


> Tbf to him I think in that case he was separating the types of PPV buys.
> 
> 2nd hand information wise it seems like this is allegedly one of, if not the best internet streaming Impact/TNA PPVs ever. As well as a damn good traditional TV PPV buy event for Impact/TNA given the current landscape of things.


if Kenny Omega was the reason for a lot more than usual PPV buys, then good for him
he better be that effective in terms of drawing
he's the AEW champion, the second largest wrestling company in the world


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

.christopher. said:


> Them celebrating like their country had won the world cup was funny. So many of them tagging @The Wood showing that he lives rent free in their heads.
> 
> By next year, when AEW are routinely getting around 700k viewers, we can look back and laugh at some of the acolytes comments.
> 
> And then the week after - when they fail to retain a potential high viewership - it'll be rocking again. Rinse and repeat.


Prime example of a tribalistic sports fan mixed up and out of his depth because he's talking about a television show instead of his sports team. Sorry AEW does't have enough fainting goats for your taste -- go back to watching people kick a ball around in a circle for 3 hours.


----------



## CM Buck

DammitChrist said:


> There's really nothing wrong or embarrassing with his hype about a promotion he actually enjoys tbh.


There is if his never objective. He never critiques them. It is embarrassing if you aren't able to see the flaws in something you love.

Its like a marriage. Every husband and wife have something they don't like about their spouse. If you love everything about your partner its not real love. It's puppy love. If you don't argue and go through conflict you don't grow


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

Firefromthegods said:


> There is if his never objective. He never critiques them. It is embarrassing if you aren't able to see the flaws in something you love.
> 
> Its like a marriage. Every husband and wife have something they don't like about their spouse. If you love everything about your partner its not real love. It's puppy love. If you don't argue and go through conflict you don't grow


But just like you said about loving everything not being true, hating everything is equally as false and sometimes people clap back -- but then; Well then I guess it's your job to keep the peace.

Lol honestly I actually wonder what would happen if the handful of people still posting here actually met up in real life around a campfire with some beers, burgers, and some wrestling content to watch or listen to. A playlist of entrance themes from the greats and some classic matches on a big projector screen. 

Would all the animosity just melt away or would it end up in a fist fight?

Just a goofy thought.


----------



## CovidFan

Firefromthegods said:


> Its like a marriage. Every husband and wife have something they don't like about their spouse. If you love everything about your partner its not real love. It's puppy love. If you don't argue and go through conflict you don't grow


Never been married have you? The arguments and getting to know each other and know you want to be with them forever is a part of dating, not marriage. Not to say there's never conflicts but it's not a continuous thing where you can say that "at all times, there's something they don't like about each other".

Sorry to DC and chums. Continue the ridiculous back and forth that will never lead anywhere


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

CovidFan said:


> Never been married have you? The arguments and getting to know each other and know you want to be with them forever is a part of dating, not marriage. Not to say there's never conflicts but it's not a continuous thing where you can say that "at all times, there's something they don't like about each other".
> 
> Sorry to DC and chums. Continue the ridiculous back and forth that will never lead anywhere


Lol, what kind of dream world are you living in that almost all married couples don't have things they don't like about the other person? It doesn't have to be some end of the world, fist fighting argument shit, but yeah even 50 years steady married couples have some gripes, minor as they may be. 

The point he was making is that nothing is perfect, and to say so is just ignoring reality.


----------



## VIP86

CovidFan said:


> Never been married have you? The arguments and getting to know each other and know you want to be with them forever is a part of dating, not marriage.


you do realise there are other cultures on this planet, Right ?
the concept of "dating" doesn't even exist in a lot of cultures
ever heard of Arranged marriage ?
which is the main marriage model in countless cultures


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

VIP86 said:


> you do realise there are other cultures on this planet, Right ?
> the concept of "dating" doesn't even exist in a lot of cultures
> ever heard of Arranged marriage ?
> which is the main marriage model in countless cultures


Oof.

Talk about some actually shitty booking.


----------



## VIP86

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Oof.
> 
> Talk about some actually shitty booking.


yep, it is
it's a very hit or miss type of show


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

VIP86 said:


> yep, it is
> it's a very hit or miss type of show


Is that from the left hand, or the right?


----------



## VIP86

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Is that from the left hand, or the right?


i need more explanation
you talking about ideologies ?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Isn’t there a Cornette thread now for all of..... this?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Firefromthegods said:


> There is if his never objective. He never critiques them. It is embarrassing if you aren't able to see the flaws in something you love.
> 
> *Its like a marriage. Every husband and wife have something they don't like about their spouse. If you love everything about your partner its not real love. It's puppy love. If you don't argue and go through conflict you don't grow*


its quite sad if you really believe that


----------



## ProjectGargano

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Since DammitC obsessively made the ratings thread about Cornette, here are his thoughts on the ratings:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They're doing the same shit that Russo got crucified for in TNA by booking for temporary ratings spikes instead of PPV buys. That's why they can never recover from massive drops without advertising another celebrity or major match. They hit 952,000 with Shaq and never matched or exceeded it until NXT moved to Tuesday and the over 50 crowd peeked their heads in. It took AEW two weeks to lose them, so now they'll spike again with the Blood and Guts match and start dropping again until they repeat the cycle with more hotshot booking.
> 
> This kind of shit is part of exactly what killed WCW. They gave away Hogan vs Goldberg on free TV and cost themselves tens of millions of dollars in PPV revenue. This was the beginning of the end. Their booking cycle is not sustainable and will actually cripple them more than anything.*


Yes, but when they have a weaker card and try to build some storylines like last week they are criticized and people say they deserve the bad rating for the bad card presented.


----------



## CM Buck

LifeInCattleClass said:


> its quite sad if you really believe that


You're joking right? You're mom and dad never had disagreements? You've never had disagreements with a spouse?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

ProjectGargano said:


> Yes, but when they have a weaker card and try to build some storylines like last week they are criticized and people say they deserve the bad rating for the bad card presented.


*I'm not saying a card has to be great every single week, but there definitely needs to be a balance. This has been a problem since the first big New Year show where the initial card was hella stacked and the follow-up card was very underwhelming. It needs to be split as evenly as possible. AEW's issue is overstuffing a television card one week, and then having several shows full of fluff in the coming weeks. Spread those great matches out between the fluff cards and you'll fix this issue.*


----------



## Geert Wilders

Firefromthegods said:


> You're joking right? You're mom and dad never had disagreements? You've never had disagreements with a spouse?


Yup but I wouldn’t go around calling something puppy love or “fake love”. There’s no one specific definition for love. Everyone’s experience is different and we should learn to respect that.


----------



## CM Buck

Geert Wilders said:


> Yup but I wouldn’t go around calling something puppy love or “fake love”. There’s no one specific definition for love. Everyone’s experience is different and we should learn to respect that.


I do. Im just saying criticism doesn't mean you hate something. Incessant criticism yes but the odd criticism no. And its annoying when genuine criticism is just disregarded as hate for the sake of hate.

Its tribalism stuff that frustrates me


----------



## yeahright2

DammitChrist said:


> You got it twisted, dude. He’s the one wasting MY time with how defensive he’s getting over 1 short comment 😂
> 
> Nah, the company will survive for a long time just fine without Cornette around. In fact, I’m willing to bet that it’ll outlast him too. They really don’t need him at all. They already have enough experienced veterans that actually do have a clue about what fans want regarding modern wrestling. He’s too much of a coward to put his money where his mouth is, and actually do something productive FOR that company; so instead, he resorts to lowering himself (even further) by catering to the nonsensical anti-smarks, which is pretty much the equivalent of an old man yelling at a cloud.
> 
> I don’t get that same vibe with Meltzer at all. The guy usually does his job, and he typically minds his own business; but yet somehow triggers some (of the petty) folks just because his speculations/news are too broad, or how he enjoys certain promotions and matches more than others. He’s really not the “hack” that his critics think he is here.
> 
> He’s definitely worth taking seriously more than the other guy. It’s pretty much what started the outrage on here to begin with. God forbid that he shares some statistics that don’t cater to what the critics want to see 😂
> 
> Anyway, no, it’d actually be foolish to oppose me on this one. I stand by what I said about that clown, and I’m pretty damn confident about it too (or else I’d bite my tongue on this one)
> 
> 
> 
> No, I am really not at all :kobe
> 
> Quit ignoring my calm tone.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> For the record, it’s good to see that Kenny Omega draws to some extent


Are you denying AEW tried to hire Cornette on more than one occasion?


----------



## Geert Wilders

Firefromthegods said:


> I do. Im just saying criticism doesn't mean you hate something. Incessant criticism yes but the odd criticism no. And its annoying when genuine criticism is just disregarded as hate for the sake of hate.
> 
> Its tribalism stuff that frustrates me


Agree with you completely. I'm sure you have been labelled as a hater and a fanboy.
I love the potential of AEW. I love their talent and they do many things right. I notice that when i make a criticism, people like @LifeInCattleClass will slam my opinion and call me a hater.

Both sides are a bit crazy to be honest. Can't win either way.


----------



## RainmakerV2

DammitChrist said:


> There's really nothing wrong or embarrassing with his hype about a promotion he actually enjoys tbh.



He charges 11.99 a month for wrestling news. If he's holding back bad news or manipulating every number to make one company look good, thats bad business and should be called out. Its called "The Wrestling Observer ", not "The AEW Fan." If he wants to call it the ladder, then do that.


----------



## DammitChrist

yeahright2 said:


> Are you denying AEW tried to hire Cornette on more than one occasion?


It’s even more impressive that they’re doing really well in spite of him


----------



## 3venflow

RainmakerV2 said:


> He charges 11.99 a month for wrestling news. If he's holding back bad news or manipulating every number to make one company look good, thats bad business and should be called out. Its called "The Wrestling Observer ", not "The AEW Fan." If he wants to call it the ladder, then do that.


Meltzer recently gushed over WWE's head guy Nick Khan at his Q1 performance report, praising his business acumen. He has also rated NXT matches on average higher than AEW and main brand WWE. These are things that people tend to ignore. Not to mention New Japan, which he gives more four and five star ratings to than any other promotion.

He may have biases but they are fluid, like he used to favour WWF over WCW in the late 90s and NOAH over NJPW in the 2000s. Perhaps it's just genuinely what he thinks is best when rating matches.

In terms of bias, Meltzer is nowhere near as biased as lauded guys like Cornette, who couldn't even find anything good to say about the Pinnacle/IC segment that was almost universally lauded online.

He reports news from all over the place. I've not really seen any evidence of him holding back news, but am willing to be proven wrong if there is any evidence besides "HE'S AN AEW MARK!". He deliberately holds back news or is vague on Twitter at times because he wants people to subscribe to his sheet, where there is a lot of more detailed news and ratings numbers.

Anyone who thinks his news lacks credibility clearly doesn't read his stuff, it has info from promotions all over the world that appears before almost anywhere else (Fightful is slowly building up its own network of sources though and breaking a lot of news). He has sources in all the major companies, right down to MLW.

In his newsletter itself when I've read it, I don't detect much bias for the most part. A lot of it is straight-up reporting and he does the best obituaries in the business.


----------



## La Parka

3venflow said:


> Meltzer recently gushed over WWE's head guy Nick Khan at his Q1 performance report, praising his business acumen. He has also rated NXT matches on average higher than AEW and main brand WWE. These are things that people tend to ignore. Not to mention New Japan, which he gives more four and five star ratings to than any other promotion.
> 
> He may have biases but they are fluid, like he used to favour WWF over WCW in the late 90s and NOAH over NJPW in the 2000s. Perhaps it's just genuinely what he thinks is best when rating matches.
> 
> In terms of bias, Meltzer is nowhere near as biased as lauded guys like Cornette, who couldn't even find anything good to say about the Pinnacle/IC segment that was almost universally lauded online.
> 
> He reports news from all over the place. I've not really seen any evidence of him holding back news, but am willing to be proven wrong if there is any evidence besides "HE'S AN AEW MARK!". He deliberately holds back news or is vague on Twitter at times because he wants people to subscribe to his sheet, where there is a lot of more detailed news and ratings numbers.
> 
> Anyone who thinks his news lacks credibility clearly doesn't read his stuff, it has info from promotions all over the world that appears before almost anywhere else (Fightful is slowly building up its own network of sources though and breaking a lot of news). He has sources in all the major companies, right down to MLW.
> 
> In his newsletter itself when I've read it, I don't detect much bias for the most part. A lot of it is straight-up reporting and he does the best obituaries in the business.


Cornette isn’t meant to be unbiased, he’s not a journalist.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Firefromthegods said:


> You're joking right? You're mom and dad never had disagreements? You've never had disagreements with a spouse?


almost never - definitely not about ‘flaws’ - real love and building a relationship is not just looking past flaws, but learning to love them

ps> addictions like alcholism, gambling, adultery are not ‘flaws’ fyi


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Geert Wilders said:


> Agree with you completely. I'm sure you have been labelled as a hater and a fanboy.
> I love the potential of AEW. I love their talent and they do many things right. I notice that when i make a criticism, people like @LifeInCattleClass will slam my opinion and call me a hater.
> 
> Both sides are a bit crazy to be honest. Can't win either way.


i have never called you a hater (or anybody else, really)

i do think about 90% of you are too super serious though - too serious for a silly hobby like wrestling. Its like people who ‘criticise’ the latest lego sets on youtube like its molesting their childhood

like... really?

and don’t get me started on the ‘it insults my intelligence’ crew


----------



## yeahright2

DammitChrist said:


> It’s even more impressive that they’re doing really well in spite of him


Instead of deflecting, answer the question please.. Do you deny they tried to hire him?


----------



## DammitChrist

La Parka said:


> Cornette isn’t meant to be unbiased, he’s not a journalist.


However, you’re basically admitting that Jim Cornette IS very biased here (which means that he shouldn’t be taken seriously by many wrestling fans)?


----------



## La Parka

DammitChrist said:


> However, you’re basically admitting that Jim Cornette IS very biased here (which means that he shouldn’t be taken seriously by many wrestling fans)?


I admitted nothing of the sort.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> However, you’re basically admitting that Jim Cornette IS very biased here (which means that he shouldn’t be taken seriously by many wrestling fans)?


Everyone is biased. It is just a few people like Meltzer who pretend they are not.


DammitChrist said:


> It’s even more impressive that they’re doing really well in spite of him


Which is it? Is he completely irrelevant or is he some incredible obstacle that AEW has managed to survive despite his existence?


----------



## kyledriver

So how bout dem ratings?? Lol what happened here?

Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk


----------



## Geert Wilders

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i have never called you a hater (or anybody else, really)
> 
> i do think about 90% of you are too super serious though - too serious for a silly hobby like wrestling. Its like people who ‘criticise’ the latest lego sets on youtube like its molesting their childhood
> 
> like... really?
> 
> and don’t get me started on the ‘it insults my intelligence’ crew


You have absolutely criticised me for my opinion (rather than actually arguing your opinion), leading to @Firefromthegods having to step in. Hence why I picked you specifically.


----------



## La Parka

kyledriver said:


> So how bout dem ratings?? Lol what happened here?
> 
> Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk


Someone challenged the pope of AEW, Dave Meltzer.

This led to AEW fans screeching about Jim Cornette.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Geert Wilders said:


> You have absolutely criticised me for my opinion (rather than actually arguing your opinion), leading to @Firefromthegods having to step in. Hence why I picked you specifically.


i didn’t call you a hater though - i said ‘you guys can’t find a positive with a magnifying glass in a factory of batteries’ - which was a joke

and full disclosure - it was more the replies to your thread than your OP about the devaluation if the AEW belt that prompted my response - but i didn’t feel the need to explain it and just let it go

but even a statement like ‘devaluing the status of the AEW belt’ is kinda.... ehhhh

anyway - you have your opinions mate - they bother me zero. If someone irritates me, i put them on ignore - you’re clearly not on my ignore / therefore i value some of your opinions 🤷‍♂️

make of that what you will


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Besides..... isn‘t criticising just trying to ‘make something better’ anyway?


----------



## DammitChrist

Two Sheds said:


> Everyone is biased. It is just a few people like Meltzer who pretend they are not.
> 
> *Which is it? Is he completely irrelevant or is he some incredible obstacle that AEW has managed to survive despite his existence?*


It’s mostly the former because the latter just demonstrates how expendable he truly is since they’re surviving really well without him.


----------



## DammitChrist

La Parka said:


> Someone challenged the pope of AEW, Dave Meltzer.
> 
> This led to AEW fans screeching about Jim Cornette.


Nah, the truth here is that the critics allowed Dave Meltzer to ruffle their feathers with his recent statistics, so they needed to be reminded how fraudulent they’re being since the bitter guy who they listen to is actually a big hack (especially since he’s not nearly as reasonable as Meltzer).


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> .
> 
> In terms of bias, Meltzer is nowhere near as biased as lauded guys like Cornette, who couldn't even find anything good to say about the Pinnacle/IC segment that was almost universally lauded online.


*So clearly you didn't listen to what Cornette actually said. He said the order of events was done completely wrong, not that the segment sucked.*


----------



## VIP86

AEW has a finishing move named after Meltzer
and people claim he's not biased 😂 
as if they named a finishing move after him because of his super-duper "unbiased" opinions 🤣

plus, of course hardcore fans won't find him biased since they share the same views as him 😄
mind blowing revelation, isn't it 🤯


----------



## VIP86

La Parka said:


> Someone challenged the pope of AEW, Dave Meltzer.
> 
> This led to AEW fans screeching about Jim Cornette.


the corny meltdown is still going strong for the second day in a row.  
amazing what can one meme achieve


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i have never called you a hater (or anybody else, really)
> 
> *i do think about 90% of you are too super serious though - too serious for a silly hobby like wrestling. Its like people who ‘criticise’ the latest lego sets on youtube like its molesting their childhood
> 
> like... really?
> 
> and don’t get me started on the ‘it insults my intelligence’ crew*


I agree with this. People on here take shit literally and nitpick any and everything. And even with little fun threads people respond to them in a serious way. It's like damn..lighten the fuck up. Wrestling is not that serious. It's just entertainment at the end of the day. Either take it for what it is or leave it alone. Not that anyone can't have any gripes about it but at some point you have got to decide if it's worth it to keep bitching and bitching and bitching about it.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, the truth here is that the critics allowed Dave Meltzer to ruffle their feathers with his recent statistics, so they needed to be reminded how fraudulent they’re being since the bitter guy who they listen to is actually a big hack (especially since he’s not nearly as reasonable as Meltzer).


Those were not statistics. He released a word salad based on a small sample of numbers that only he has access to and no one can even verify those numbers. It means literally nothing.


----------



## DammitChrist

VIP86 said:


> AEW has a finishing move named after Meltzer
> and people claim he's not biased 😂
> as if they named a finishing move after him because of his super-duper "unbiased" opinions 🤣
> 
> plus, of course hardcore fans won't find him biased since they share the same views as him 😄
> mind blowing revelation, isn't it 🤯


Yep, it's very unsurprising that Cornette's followers will do whatever it takes to defend someone who doesn't care about them (along with the fact that they weirdly share the same opinions about the product being "bad").

The predictability here gets a huge yikes from the wrestling fans here.




3venflow said:


> Meltzer recently gushed over WWE's head guy Nick Khan at his Q1 performance report, praising his business acumen. He has also rated NXT matches on average higher than AEW and main brand WWE. These are things that people tend to ignore. Not to mention New Japan, which he gives more four and five star ratings to than any other promotion.
> 
> He may have biases but they are fluid, like he used to favour WWF over WCW in the late 90s and NOAH over NJPW in the 2000s. Perhaps it's just genuinely what he thinks is best when rating matches.
> 
> In terms of bias, Meltzer is nowhere near as biased as lauded guys like Cornette, who couldn't even find anything good to say about the Pinnacle/IC segment that was almost universally lauded online.
> 
> He reports news from all over the place. I've not really seen any evidence of him holding back news, but am willing to be proven wrong if there is any evidence besides "HE'S AN AEW MARK!". He deliberately holds back news or is vague on Twitter at times because he wants people to subscribe to his sheet, where there is a lot of more detailed news and ratings numbers.
> 
> Anyone who thinks his news lacks credibility clearly doesn't read his stuff, it has info from promotions all over the world that appears before almost anywhere else (Fightful is slowly building up its own network of sources though and breaking a lot of news). He has sources in all the major companies, right down to MLW.
> 
> In his newsletter itself when I've read it, I don't detect much bias for the most part. A lot of it is straight-up reporting and he does the best obituaries in the business.


Of course your post (where you wrote nothing but the truth) here gets questioned and downplayed 😂

You just made it even more obvious how Meltzer is more credible than the other guy, and it's baffling to really question this.


----------



## One Shed

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I agree with this. People on here take shit literally and nitpick any and everything. And even with little fun threads people respond to them in a serious way. It's like damn..lighten the fuck up. Wrestling is not that serious. It's just entertainment at the end of the day. Either take it for what it is or leave it alone. Not that anyone can't have any gripes about it but at some point you have got to decide if it's worth it to keep bitching and bitching and bitching about it.


You chose to create an account on an internet forum to discuss wrestling. You at least take it somewhat seriously. If you wanted to just hear people praising something nonstop you should have joined a church.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Two Sheds said:


> You chose to create an account on an internet forum to discuss wrestling. You at least take it somewhat seriously. If you wanted to just hear people praising something nonstop you should have joined a church.


I joined because I like wrestling and want to talk about it with others. That's not taking it seriously that's being a fan something you don't understand . Also, make sure you read the post you quote because nowhere there did I say I want endless praise. I want to be able to talk wrestling without people like you who does nothing but whine and offer NOTHING but negativity and shout down others who have good things to say.


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> Yep, it's very unsurprising that Cornette's followers will do whatever it takes to defend someone who doesn't care about them (along with the fact that they weirdly share the same opinions about the product being "bad").
> 
> The predictability here gets a huge yikes from the wrestling fans here.


oh look it's mister trolly MCTroll
still trying to Troll the unTrollables
you can't resist, can you
you're not at this level yet

don't tell me you're still triggered about this amazing work of art 😄


----------



## El Hammerstone

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I joined because I like wrestling and want to talk about it with others. That's not taking it seriously that's being a fan something you don't understand . Also, make sure you read the post you quote because nowhere there did I say I want endless praise. I want to be able to talk wrestling without people like you who does nothing but whine and offer NOTHING but negativity and shout down others who have good things to say.


If you didn't take this seriously, then there would be no need for the constant tantrums you throw; you'd have no issue simply brushing off any criticisms or "hate", but you seem incapable of doing that.


----------



## One Shed

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I joined because I like wrestling and want to talk about it with others. That's not taking it seriously that's being a fan something you don't understand . Also, make sure you read the post you quote because nowhere there did I say I want endless praise. I want to be able to talk wrestling without people like you who does nothing but whine and offer NOTHING but negativity and shout down others who have good things to say.


As usual, you have no idea what you are talking about. You are one of the people on here who constantly whines about people criticizing bad things. Basically, a slightly older version of Pippen. You pop into the ratings thread when they do a good number and say something useless like "AEW with a great rating? You love to see it." And then you disappear and ignore when their rating is down.

I want to be able to talk about wrestling as well, and that can be tough when a lot of what is being presented on products that call themselves wrestling programs is just a bunch of middle school gymnasts performing routines. And they are going to get called out on it every single time.


----------



## DammitChrist

El Hammerstone said:


> If you didn't take this seriously, then there would be no need for the constant tantrums you throw; you'd have no issue simply brushing off any criticisms or "hate", but you seem incapable of doing that.





Two Sheds said:


> As usual, you have no idea what you are talking about. You are one of the people on here who constantly whines about people criticizing bad things. Basically, a slightly older version of Pippen. You pop into the ratings thread when they do a good number and say something useless like "AEW with a great rating? You love to see it." And then you disappear and ignore when their rating is down.
> 
> I want to be able to talk about wrestling as well, and that can be tough when a lot of what is being presented on products that call themselves wrestling programs is just a bunch of middle school gymnasts performing routines. And they are going to get called out on it every single time.


Nah, that poster isn't being "unreasonable" nor is that individual throwing "constantly throwing temper tantrums."

In fact, @The Raw Smackdown is easily one of the most rational posters on here. Those who oppose this should take notes from this person tbh.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

El Hammerstone said:


> If you didn't take this seriously, then there would be no need for the constant tantrums you throw; you'd have no issue simply brushing off any criticisms or "hate", but you seem incapable of doing that.


If you don't like what I have to say that's fine but let's not lie okay?


----------



## El Hammerstone

The Raw Smackdown said:


> If you don't like what I have to say that's fine but let's not lie okay?


"Don't try and tell me how to post, I will post ANY FUCKING WAY I want to, and I don't FUCKING care what you think about it!"

That sounds like a tantrum to me, Sheds can vouch for that as the recipient of it.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, that poster isn't being "unreasonable" nor is that individual throwing "constantly throwing temper tantrums."
> 
> In fact, @The Raw Smackdown is easily one of the most rational posters on here. Those who oppose this should take notes from this person tbh.


Another one of your posts that contains no actual content or addresses any actual points.

Just another "this guy agrees with me so his posts are legit because I say so."

Just nonsensical, "tbh." Your (honestly bad) typing and response style adds nothing of value and it is becoming less and less relevant tbh.


----------



## Klitschko

3venflow said:


> Anyone who thinks his news lacks credibility clearly doesn't read his stuff, it has info from promotions all over the world that appears before almost anywhere else (Fightful is slowly building up its own network of sources though and breaking a lot of news). He has sources in all the major companies, right down to MLW.
> 
> In his newsletter itself when I've read it, I don't detect much bias for the most part. A lot of it is straight-up reporting and he does the best obituaries in the business.


I'm sorry but thats bullshit. His news do lack credibility. 95 percent of his news are theories that I hear first from fans on these forums and other places and he tries to pass them off as an insider news story. Then when it doesn't happen, he just says plans changed. 

I think I have every right to doubt his credibility when he came out with a insider report as to why some Wrestlemania matches like the Andre the giant battle royal were held on Smackdown, instead of Wrestlemania, and his insider answer was "Andre the giant battle royal was held on Smackdown instead of Wrestlemania because it's basically a Wrestlemania pre show. No shit Sherlock, it was literally called Wrestlemania Smackdown or something like that. 

Look, I'm far from being the sharpest tool in @Two Sheds shed, and I think a lot of you guys are smarter then me when it comes to wrestling, but it really really makes me question everything about you when some of you act like Meltzer has the scoop on shit.


----------



## DammitChrist

El Hammerstone said:


> "Don't try and tell me how to post, I will post ANY FUCKING WAY I want to, and I don't FUCKING care what you think about it!"
> 
> That sounds like a tantrum to me, Sheds can vouch for that as the recipient of it.


Do you even know what an actual "temper tantrum" is? :lol

That individual sounds very calm. You're being very hostile to that poster.



Two Sheds said:


> Another one of your posts that contains no actual content or addresses any actual points.
> 
> Just another "this guy agrees with me so his posts are legit because I say so."
> 
> Just nonsensical, "tbh." Your (honestly bad) typing and response style adds nothing of value and it is becoming less and less relevant tbh.


Oh, and how is your post here supposed to be any way substantial to the topic? 😂 

Perhaps, maybe some of you can behave yourselves first, and then I can eventually put in more effort in my valid posts (which would be a waste of time anyway because I know that it'll be like reasoning with a wide wall unfortunately).


----------



## One Shed

Klitschko said:


> I'm sorry but thats bullshit. His news do lack credibility. 95 percent of his news are theories that I hear first from fans on these forums and other places and he tries to pass them off as an insider news story. Then when it doesn't happen, he just says plans changed.
> 
> I think I have every right to doubt his credibility when he came out with a insider report as to why some Wrestlemania matches like the Andre the giant battle royal were held on Smackdown, instead of Wrestlemania, and his insider answer was "Andre the giant battle royal was held on Smackdown instead of Wrestlemania because it's basically a Wrestlemania pre show. No shit Sherlock, it was literally called Wrestlemania Smackdown or something like that.
> 
> Look, I'm far from being the sharpest tool in @Two Sheds shed, and I think a lot of you guys are smarter then me when it comes to wrestling, but it really really makes me question everything about you when some of you act like Meltzer has the scoop on shit.


My shed is mostly full of smoked meats and delicious alcohol. I am happy to share.

It is especially funny, because no one really took Meltzer that seriously for decades EXCEPT Cornette, but now that he is showing even more of a bias and even lost Corny, a few people start praising him. Just weird to me since his reporting has always been dubious outside of live attendance.


----------



## Klitschko

The Raw Smackdown said:


> How about you not tell me what the fuck to post. You got a bad habit of doing that. I will address WHATEVER I want in WHATEVER fucking manner I choose. And I choose to respond to that part which was fucking rediculous and frankly pathetic. And that gooes for your little friend to.


Emotional.

I still like ya though.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Two Sheds said:


> As usual, you have no idea what you are talking about. You are one of the people on here who constantly whines about people criticizing bad things. Basically, a slightly older version of Pippen. You pop into the ratings thread when they do a good number and say something useless like "AEW with a great rating? You love to see it." And then you disappear and ignore when their rating is down.
> 
> I want to be able to talk about wrestling as well, and that can be tough when a lot of what is being presented on products that call themselves wrestling programs is just a bunch of middle school gymnasts performing routines. And they are going to get called out on it every single time.


YOU'RE the one that has no idea what you're talking about and is just making shit up. I'm not you: I don't be on this site complaining about a wrestling show that I don't like all day every day. I say what I say and keep it moving. Just like in the ratings thread like you pointed out. What the fuck else exactly am I supposed to say other than Great Rating? I'm not gonna sit there and overanalyze the shit. They did well that week. Happy Fucking Day. That's it.

And for the record. I do notice when they do a bad rating. All I say is they'll bounce back next week and more often than not they do. What else am I supposed to say? I can post how I want. 

As for the last part...okay. You clearly don't like what's going on. How about maybe...not watch?


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Oh, and how is your post here supposed to be any way substantial to the topic? 😂
> 
> Perhaps, maybe some of you can behave yourselves first, and then I can eventually put in more effort in my valid posts (which would be a waste of time anyway because I know that it'll be like reasoning with a wide wall unfortunately).


More ad hominems. "You guys just do not agree with me so this is not worth me putting any effort in. Oh, I am still going to make nonsensical posts though! No need to stop that!"


----------



## One Shed

Klitschko said:


> Emotional.


Yep. I remember that breakdown quite well.


----------



## DammitChrist

Two Sheds said:


> More ad hominems. "You guys just do not agree with me so this is not worth me putting any effort in. Oh, I am still going to make nonsensical posts though! No need to stop that!"


Okay, now you're just being unreasonable by putting random words to my mouth and making false assumptions here.

Try to be more like the actual (rational/reasonable) wrestling fans who aren't pessimistic


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

El Hammerstone said:


> "Don't try and tell me how to post, I will post ANY FUCKING WAY I want to, and I don't FUCKING care what you think about it!"
> 
> That sounds like a tantrum to me, Sheds can vouch for that as the recipient of it.


That's not a tantrum. That's letting someone know that they aren't god here and they have no right to tell anyone how to conduct themselves on this forum unless they're a mod which two sheds isn't. 

Try Again Sweetie.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

DammitChrist said:


> Okay, now you're just being unreasonable by putting random words to my mouth and making false assumptions here.
> 
> Try to be more like the actual (rational/reasonable) wrestling fans who aren't pessimistic


That's there MO lmao.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

The Jump-a-hoes are out today huh.


----------



## El Hammerstone

The Raw Smackdown said:


> That's there MO lmao.


their*


----------



## One Shed

The Raw Smackdown said:


> YOU'RE the one that has no idea what you're talking about and is just making shit up. I'm not you: I don't be on this site complaining about a wrestling show that I don't like all day every day. I say what I say and keep it moving. Just like in the ratings thread like you pointed out. What the fuck else exactly am I supposed to say other than Great Rating? I'm not gonna sit there and overanalyze the shit. They did well that week. Happy Fucking Day. That's it.
> 
> And for the record. I do notice when they do a bad rating. All I say is they'll bounce back next week and more often than not they do. What else am I supposed to say? I can post how I want.
> 
> As for the last part...okay. You clearly don't like what's going on. How about maybe...not watch?


What an emotional response. "I can post want i want! I'm telling mom you said that!"

Ok then. If all you want to do is say "great show, I liked it" or "hope they bounce back next week" that is just...really not substantial. No one is saying you "cannot" post that any more than a store can post "shirt and shoes required for entry." Like, yeah everyone knows that. No need to point that out. Just NPC posting.

And more black and white thinking. I like a lot of what is going on in the various products and a lot of it is pathetic. I talk about both. The worst posts on here to me are the ones that say something like "oh, you do not like everything about the product?!? Stop watching then! Wait, why did their ratings go down?!?"


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Okay, now you're just being unreasonable by putting random words to my mouth and making false assumptions here.
> 
> Try to be more like the actual (rational/reasonable) wrestling fans who aren't pessimistic


They are not random, they were clearly based on the post I quoted which you literally said

"Oh, and how is your post here supposed to be any way substantial to the topic? 😂 

Perhaps, maybe some of you can behave yourselves first, and then I can eventually put in more effort in my valid posts (which would be a waste of time anyway because I know that it'll be like reasoning with a wide wall unfortunately)."

Which to me reads like the response I made. Seems very reasonable to me.


----------



## RainmakerV2

DammitChrist said:


> However, you’re basically admitting that Jim Cornette IS very biased here (which means that he shouldn’t be taken seriously by many wrestling fans)?


Cornettes forgotten more about wrestling than this entire board will ever learn. I dont agree with him about everything (for example hes in love with WALTER, and I dont see it) but, people listen and respect his opinion for a reason. Even Kevin Owens who hates him admitted in his later years he craved Cornettes approval.


----------



## VIP86

projection and victimhood 101
this thread would make a great research paper for any student in psychiatry 😁


----------



## One Shed

RainmakerV2 said:


> Cornettes forgotten more about wrestling than this entire board will ever learn. I dont agree with him about everything (for example hes in love with WALTER, and I dont see it) but, people listen and respect his opinion for a reason. Even Kevin Owens who hates him admitted in his later years he craved Cornettes approval.


And likewise, Cornette has said Owens is very talented and likes him as a wrestler, he was just a pain in the ass to deal with behind the scenes. Cornette respects talents even if he has personal issues with someone. The biggest example there is Brock.


----------



## One Shed

VIP86 said:


> projection and victimhood 101
> this thread would make a great research paper for any student in psychiatry 😁


There are a lot of useful threads on here from a psychological perspective. I mention that sometimes because it is pretty interesting if you are someone who has studied human psychology.


----------



## RapShepard

Two Sheds said:


> My shed is mostly full of smoked meats and delicious alcohol. I am happy to share.
> 
> It is especially funny, because no one really took Meltzer that seriously for decades EXCEPT Cornette, but now that he is showing even more of a bias and even lost Corny, a few people start praising him. Just weird to me since his reporting has always been dubious outside of live attendance.


The funniest will always be that Cornette was super beloved, funny, and on the nose a few years ago when his main targets where Russo and WWE. "HHH is the guy that works with the guy" is still a quote that gets used. It wasn't until certain fans found out he'll rip shit they love like The Elite just as hard that he became this hated "irrelevant" figure. 

He's definitely over the top and a prick. .But I think a lot of the hate is simply because a lot of his points when he talks about how things could be better make a lot of fucking sense. Like it gets old listening to him try to find name puns and rude nicknames. But him or someone like Konnan would be a great final draft editor for some of the stories and angles that get done in these promotions b


----------



## One Shed

RapShepard said:


> The funniest will always be that Cornette was super beloved, funny, and on the nose a few years ago when his main targets where Russo and WWE. "HHH is the guy that works with the guy" is still a quote that gets used. It wasn't until certain fans found out he'll rip shit they love like The Elite just as hard that he became this hated "irrelevant" figure.
> 
> He's definitely over the top and a prick. .But I think a lot of the hate is simply because a lot of his points when he talks about how things could be better make a lot of fucking sense. Like it gets old listening to him try to find name puns and rude nicknames. But him or someone like Konnan would be a great final draft editor for some of the stories and angles that get done in these promotions b


Definitely. He was an internet darling when he pointed out the nonsensical things WWE did. But as soon as he used that same logic and mindset towards the indy guys and then AEW, suddenly he was enemy #1.

I also do not think anyone on here wants Corny to be Vince and be the final arbiter of booking a product. I do not either as I disagree with him on plenty. But he is probably the best wrestling historian alive and comes up with a ton of creative ideas off the top of his head so he would improve any product he was involved in. Like any good product, you would have other guys to filter some of the bad ideas out.


----------



## VIP86

Two Sheds said:


> There are a lot of useful threads on here from a psychological perspective. I mention that sometimes because it is pretty interesting if you are someone who has studied human psychology.


yep, like for example i found out something super-duper amazing about the forum months ago
there is an ignore feature that can make critics magically go away
but they don't want to use it
it's all about not wanting different opinions in the first place

it's absolutely eating them inside the fact that some people don't think that Tony Khan is the GOD of pro wrestling now


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Two Sheds said:


> What an emotional response. "I can post want i want! I'm telling mom you said that!"
> 
> Ok then. If all you want to do is say "great show, I liked it" or "hope they bounce back next week" that is just...really not substantial. No one is saying you "cannot" post that any more than a store can post "shirt and shoes required for entry." Like, yeah everyone knows that. No need to point that out. Just NPC posting.
> 
> And more black and white thinking. I like a lot of what is going on in the various products and a lot of it is pathetic. I talk about both. The worst posts on here to me are the ones that say something like "oh, you do not like everything about the product?!? Stop watching then! Wait, why did their ratings go down?!?"


That's not being emotional though. You're only taking it that way because you don't like how I post. I'm sorry but that's your issue. I'm not here to be how Two Sheds want and I'm going to keep reminding you of that regardless of how you take it.

It's not black and white. That's what a sensible person does when they don't like something and you sure as fuck don't like wrestling because you post NOTHING Positive about it. And me telling you not to watch has nothing to do with why the ratings are down. People are telling YOU specifically to not watch because YOU don't like it. Clearly lots of people do like it and they watch. That's why ratings are what they are.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

As as far as Cornette.

Okay look. He's a wrestling historian and he probably has some good ideas but he's a damn racist and I don't need to see the POC of the promotion booked like trash because he "doesn't like them".


----------



## One Shed

The Raw Smackdown said:


> That's not being emotional though. You're only taking it that way because you don't like how I post. I'm sorry but that's your issue. I'm not here to be how Two Sheds want and I'm going to keep reminding you of that regardless of how you take it.
> 
> It's not black and white. That's what a sensible person does when they don't like something and you sure as fuck don't like wrestling because you post NOTHING Positive about it. And me telling you not to watch has nothing to do with why the ratings are down. People are telling YOU specifically to not watch because YOU don't like it. Clearly lots of people do like it and they watch. That's why ratings are what they are.


It is being emotional. I simply ignore your NPC posts but then you feel the need to reply to my posts and then complain when I reply and call you out.

And the second paragraph is just pure fantasy land. Do you actually stop watching shows you otherwise like because they have a bad episode or introduce a character or storyline you cannot stand? Normal people do not do that at least. Nothing ever created has ever been all good or all bad, especially because creative content is subjective. And if you think I never post anything positive, it shows you just do not read much on here. You just focus on what you want to focus on, and you are never in the live thread actually interacting with other users who want to watch the show live like I am. When they do something good, I praise it. When they do something stupid, I call them out on it. It IS that simple and some on here seem not to be able to comprehend that. But a schizophrenic product is going to produce inconsistent responses and inconsistent ratings which is EXACTLY what we have seen with AEW.


----------



## One Shed

The Raw Smackdown said:


> As as far as Cornette.
> 
> Okay look. He's a wrestling historian and he probably has some good ideas but he's a damn racist and I don't need to see the POC of the promotion booked like trash because he "doesn't like them".


Again, you have NO idea what you are talking about. It is almost like you have never seen a product Cornette has actually booked or heard anything he actually has had to say. It is honestly an amazing level of ignorance on your part.


----------



## DammitChrist

I'd trust someone like Dave Meltzer or Bryan Alvarez to handle a wrestling promotion over Jim Cornette in 2021 tbh, and that's not even in their job description too :lol



VIP86 said:


> yep, like for example i found out something super-duper amazing about the forum months ago
> there is an ignore feature that can make critics magically go away
> but they don't want to use it
> it's all about not wanting different opinions in the first place
> 
> it's absolutely eating them inside the fact that some people don't think that Tony Khan is the GOD of pro wrestling now


Your irrational hatred for wrestling fans is pretty sad tbh. I get that it must be extremely tough for you to see anyone enjoy a product you dislike so intensely.

Take your own advice btw.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> I'd trust someone like Dave Meltzer or Bryan Alvarez to handle a wrestling promotion over Jim Cornette in 2021 tbh, and that's not even in their job description too :lol


You would want two guys who have zero experience in running a wrestling promotion over someone who has? Just because they write nice words about something you like? That is just illogical. And hilariously, that mindset is exactly how Trump managed to become president.


----------



## yeahright2

@DammitChrist I´m still waiting for an answer?


yeahright2 said:


> Instead of deflecting, answer the question please.. Do you deny they tried to hire him?


What´s the matter? you´re usually quick enough to spout your "facts".. Afraid to be outed?


----------



## One Shed

yeahright2 said:


> @DammitChrist I´m still waiting for an answer?
> 
> What´s the matter? you´re usually quick enough to spout your "facts"


He ignores posts that he has no answers to. I am still waiting on a few myself tbh.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Two Sheds said:


> It is being emotional. I simply ignore your NPC posts but then you feel the need to reply to my posts and then complain when I reply and call you out.
> 
> And the second paragraph is just pure fantasy land. Do you actually stop watching shows you otherwise like because they have a bad episode or introduce a character or storyline you cannot stand? Normal people do not do that at least. Nothing ever created has ever been all good or all bad, especially because creative content is subjective. And if you think I never post anything positive, it shows you just do not read much on here. You just focus on what you want to focus on, and you are never in the live thread actually interacting with other users who want to watch the show live like I am. When they do something good, I praise it. When they do something stupid, I call them out on it. It IS that simple and some on here seem not to be able to comprehend that. But a schizophrenic product is going to produce inconsistent responses and inconsistent ratings which is EXACTLY what we have seen with AEW.


No I just check you and you feel some kind of way about it. 

And don't sit here and talk to me about seeing what you want to see because that's EXACTLY what you're doing now. You focus on my Comments when the ratings are good and not when they're bad. If there were things you liked you wouldn't just speak about them in certain threads. You'd do it in multiple threads and you don't do that at all so I'm frankly calling bullshit on all of that. Just admit you don't like AEW and go. Honestly.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Two Sheds said:


> Again, you have NO idea what you are talking about. It is almost like you have never seen a product Cornette has actually booked or heard anything he actually has had to say. It is honestly an amazing level of ignorance on your part.


I know he said this.






And that's all I need to know.


----------



## 3venflow

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> So clearly you didn't listen to what Cornette actually said. He said the order of events was done completely wrong, not that the segment sucked.


I listened. As always he zoomed in way too much on perceived negatives and had almost nothing good to say. Same about pretty much every segment of every show and that's gotten into the heads of some of his followers on here who have become incapable of enjoying anything because he can't. Cornette has some good points, but they're buried under the endless malice and childish behaviour (like the 12-year-old nicknames for every wrestler he doesn't like).



DammitChrist said:


> You just made it even more obvious how Meltzer is more credible than the other guy, and it's baffling to really question this.


I find Meltzer hard to listen to on radio. He's always umm'ing and ahh'ing and rambles. Alvarez is a lot more articulate. But he is still the most reliable wrestling journalist around because of the decades he has spent covering the business and building up a network of sources. He isn't always right but no one else is even close. His obits are also first class and show just how deep his knowledge of the industry is.

Basically, those that don't like AEW also don't like Meltzer because he likes AEW. It's as simple as that really. If he hated AEW like Cornette, they'd like him. But they conveniently ignore the high(er) ratings he gives promotions like NJPW and even NXT.

His ratings for Takeover night one for example: 4 1/4*, 3 1/2*, 4 1/2*, 4 1/2*, 4 1/4*

Higher ratings than he gave matches on average at Revolution.


----------



## One Shed

The Raw Smackdown said:


> No I just check you and you feel some kind of way about it.
> 
> And don't sit here and talk to me about seeing what you want to see because that's EXACTLY what you're doing now. You focus on my Comments when the ratings are good and not when they're bad. If there were things you liked you wouldn't just speak about them in certain threads. You'd do it in multiple threads and you don't do that at all so I'm frankly calling bullshit on all of that. Just admit you don't like AEW and go. Honestly.


I do speak about them in multiple threads, you just lack the knowledge of their existence which is your issue, not mine. I simply pointed out the major example of it. It is funny to me that almost none of the posters who will defend even the dumbest stuff AEW does are never in the live thread. Some of them just swoop in after the fact to post their talking points.

So, to summarize, you have no idea what you are talking about on multiple topics. You think if anyone has criticisms of a show, they should just turn it off vs discussing it or wanting it to be better. That just makes no sense. I am curious what is on your list of perfect shows that should never be critiqued.


----------



## One Shed

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I know he said this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all I need to know.


It tells me you never actually listened to that clip. If you had, you would know he was telling a story about something he said IN CHARACTER when his job was to be a heel manager and get heat.

Unless you believe every actor who has ever played the part of a villain in a TV show or movie is somehow that character in real life? See how that makes no sense?


----------



## DammitChrist

yeahright2 said:


> @DammitChrist I´m still waiting for an answer?
> 
> What´s the matter? you´re usually quick enough to spout your "facts".. Afraid to be outed?





Two Sheds said:


> He ignores posts that he has no answers to. I am still waiting on a few myself tbh.


Oh, I don't back down from anything. You're not intimidating.

However, both of you do come across as irrational and aggressive, so it looks like I don't owe you anything until you guys finally decide to settle down.


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> Your irrational hatred for wrestling fans is pretty sad tbh. I get that it must be extremely tough for you to see anyone enjoy a product you dislike so intensely.
> 
> Take your own advice btw.


is putting words in people mouths a favorite sport for you ?
your projection is a health risk at this point 😂 
or this is just because you don't have a valid argument and spout stupidity in sad attempts at trolling
the only people here who hate other users are the fragile snowflake fanboys
there is an ignore feature, use it if you are bothered that much.
but you won't ever use it because your sick fixation on what everyone is saying about Geeky Khan and the Elite moron squad (his EVPs) just can't let you do it
i challenge you to show me one post that i made telling anybody to stop posting or watching
but i can show you countless posts from fanboys that literally ask people to stop watching and leave the forum
you're a bad Troll, scratch that, you're actually a miserable obsessed Troll who just can't let go of his fixations on other people opinions

Also


----------



## DammitChrist

Two Sheds said:


> You would want two guys who have zero experience in running a wrestling promotion over someone who has? Just because they write nice words about something you like? That is just illogical. *And hilariously, that mindset is exactly how Trump managed to become president.*


For the record, please don't equate me giving both men the benefit of the doubt to that orange hack.

That's a completely different matter and a way bigger deal considering how badly he's disgraced us as a country despite being in charge.

I actually despise #45 for what he did (and for what he didn't do).


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Oh, I don't back down from anything. You're not intimidating.
> 
> However, both of you do come across as irrational and aggressive, so it looks like I don't owe you anything until you guys finally decide to settle down.


Just another post that contains no actual information. None of us owe each other anything, but when you do not respond to posts, people notice. More and more people are calling out the schizophrenic nature of the AEW product and because there really is no defending a lot of it other than saying "I like it, so who cares?" you just ignore a lot of posts that point that out and a lot of the lazier posters on here just keep saying "just stop watching."


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> For the record, please don't equate me giving both men the benefit of the doubt to that orange hack.
> 
> That's a completely different matter and a way bigger deal considering how badly he's disgraced us as a country despite being in charge.
> 
> I actually despise #45 for what he did (and for what he didn't do).


I never said you liked Trump. I know you do not and neither do I.

I simply pointed out the line of thinking is the same. Saying people with no experience are more credible than someone with experience just because you agree with words they are saying is one of the reasons Trump became president.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Two Sheds said:


> I do speak about them in multiple threads, you just lack the knowledge of their existence which is your issue, not mine. I simply pointed out the major example of it. It is funny to me that almost none of the posters who will defend even the dumbest stuff AEW does are never in the live thread. Some of them just swoop in after the fact to post their talking points.
> 
> So, to summarize, you have no idea what you are talking about on multiple topics. You think if anyone has criticisms of a show, they should just turn it off vs discussing it or wanting it to be better. That just makes no sense. I am curious what is on your list of perfect shows that should never be critiqued.


You are fucking LYING lmao. You don't post anything positive at all and you know it. Stop Lying.

Oh and by the by. The reason I'm not in the live thread is because alot of the time I'm at work once AEW comes on. People still have lives and things to do you know.

So to summarize you are a Wrestling "Fan" Who hates it and gets mad when people tell him to do the sensible thing and stop watching something you clearly hate. You also think you're a mod and can tell people how to be on a message board. Oh and by the way. Everything has flaws in entertainment and life in general too. There's nothing wrong with critiquing it. However if you outright don't like something and you can walk away from it like say wrestling..do it. It does nothing for you to bitch endlessy unless someone. Learn to listen and understand people's points because you clearly missed this one.

And this is the last time I'm responding to you. Not wasting anymore time on you and got better shit to do to. Say what the fuck you want. It will falls on deaf ears.


----------



## One Shed

The Raw Smackdown said:


> You are fucking LYING lmao. You don't post anything positive at all and you know it. Stop Lying.
> 
> Oh and by the by. The reason I'm not in the live thread is because alot of the time I'm at work once AEW comes on. People still have lives and things to do you know.
> 
> So to summarize you are a Wrestling "Fan" Who hates it and gets mad when people tell him to do the sensible thing and stop watching something you clearly hate. You also think you're a mod and can tell people how to be on a message board. Oh and by the way. Everything has flaws in entertainment and life in general too. There's nothing wrong with critiquing it. However if you outright don't like something and you can walk away from it like say wrestling..do it. It does nothing for you to bitch endlessy unless someone. Learn to listen and understand people's points because you clearly missed this one.
> 
> And this is the last time I'm responding to you. Not wasting anymore time on you and got better shit to do to. Say what the fuck you want. It will falls on deaf ears.


Again, you discredit yourself by pointing out your lack of knowledge about my posting.

* a lot

So, you agree with me that nothing is perfect and deserves critique. Good. So why are you complaining about people criticizing a flawed product again?

And look at this projection. I am not pretending I am a mod and telling people not to say things. YOU are telling people to stop watching and stop posting if they have criticisms.


----------



## Dr. Middy

It's interesting to read opinions on both Dave and Cornette here, especially since I'm the camp that generally likes Dave and loathes Cornette.

As a historian, I think Cornette is brilliant and him solely talking about that aspect is great. I just find him to be really bitter, and some of what he has said has really turned me the wrong way (like japanese women and such). It feels like he reviews modern wrestling and rants on it because people want him to, so he does it mostly as a job instead of any actual interest in watching it, whether this be AEW or WWE really. Granted, he has instances where is he's right, and I'll acknowledge that, but in general I just do not enjoy listening to him, so I don't (and I have tried).

Dave I enjoy listening to because I feel like he enjoys wrestling more, but to anybody who says he doesn't have a bias is laughable, he definitely does, but it doesn't bother me all that much. There's segments and matches he showers with praise which I don't understand, but I just disagree with him and that's that. He does have instances though where he's hardheaded as hell and just makes me shake my head, but I never sense much malice with Dave, outside of a tone deaf twitter posts once in awhile. I mostly listen to his radio shows though, whether that be him and Bryan, all of the Bryan and Vinny shows, or the shows done with Filthy or Lance Storm. I pay for those way more than I ever have the newsletter, it's nice to listen to at while I'm at work.


----------



## One Shed

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> It's interesting to read opinions on both Dave and Cornette here, especially since I'm the camp that generally likes Dave and loathes Cornette.
> 
> As a historian, I think Cornette is brilliant and him solely talking about that aspect is great. I just find him to be really bitter, and some of what he has said has really turned me the wrong way (like japanese women and such). It feels like he reviews modern wrestling and rants on it because people want him to, so he does it mostly as a job instead of any actual interest in watching it, whether this be AEW or WWE really. Granted, he has instances where is he's right, and I'll acknowledge that, but in general I just do not enjoy listening to him, so I don't (and I have tried).
> 
> Dave I enjoy listening to because I feel like he enjoys wrestling more, but to anybody who says he doesn't have a bias is laughable, he definitely does, but it doesn't bother me all that much. There's segments and matches he showers with praise which I don't understand, but I just disagree with him and that's that. He does have instances though where he's hardheaded as hell and just makes me shake my head, but I never sense much malice with Dave, outside of a tone deaf twitter posts once in awhile. I mostly listen to his radio shows though, whether that be him and Bryan, all of the Bryan and Vinny shows, or the shows done with Filthy or Lance Storm. I pay for those way more than I ever have the newsletter, it's nice to listen to at while I'm at work.


And there is a reasonable response.


----------



## kyledriver

I honestly like and dislike both about the same, Cornettes one of the best story tellers ever. In any medium. But he is stuck in his ways, I usually agree with Brian lasts opinions way more, especially with modern wrestling. And he doesn't nitpick everything to death. 

Meltzer really is in a different category, he was never in the business, other than on the outside looking in. Which is fine, I enjoy his radio show with alverez and vinny and the fat guy. I can't really listen to meltzer talk though it's just so painful.

Why do we have to pick a side?

Can't we all just get along? This is wrestling.... We're all fans to an extent. No need to drive people away cause they have a different opinion. 

Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk


----------



## DammitChrist

Two Sheds said:


> And there is a reasonable response.


Yep, siding with Meltzer over Cornette is DEFINITELY the reasonable approach.

I also gave you a reasonable response earlier on. The same goes with @3venflow a few pages ago, so it's good to see another person prove how much credible Meltzer truly is compared to that other guy 

I'm glad that we're finally on the same page here regarding Meltzer being better


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

Two Sheds said:


> I do speak about them in multiple threads, you just lack the knowledge of their existence which is your issue, not mine. I simply pointed out the major example of it. It is funny to me that almost none of the posters who will defend even the dumbest stuff AEW does are never in the live thread. Some of them just swoop in after the fact to post their talking points.
> 
> So, to summarize, you have no idea what you are talking about on multiple topics. You think if anyone has criticisms of a show, they should just turn it off vs discussing it or wanting it to be better. That just makes no sense. I am curious what is on your list of perfect shows that should never be critiqued.


Almost like they're more concerned with actually watching the show than arguing on a forum. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Yep, siding with Meltzer over Cornette is DEFINITELY the reasonable approach.
> 
> I also gave you a reasonable response earlier on. The same goes with @3venflow a few pages ago, so it's good to see him prove how much credible Meltzer truly is compared to that other guy
> 
> I'm glad that we're finally on the same page here regarding Meltzer being better


There is nothing wrong with liking Meltzer, it is just wrong to say he is not biased or is some paragon of journalistic integrity. I also think he has been proven to be incorrect on his "inside knowledge" more than correct so I will still say he is a dubious source of information. But enjoying his analysis of matches and wrestling in general is perfectly reasonable. Same with listening to Cornette in that respect. Meltzer has just never been involved with running a wrestling company.

And no one has to pick a "side" here. Cornette was probably Dave's highest profile defender for literally decades when most people in the business could not stand him.


----------



## One Shed

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Almost like they're more concerned with actually watching the show than arguing on a forum. 🤷‍♂️


But yet they feel the need to create an account here and whine that people want to discuss all aspects of a company. If they just wanted to watch and enjoy the show, nothing is preventing them from doing so.


----------



## Garty

Two Sheds said:


> I do speak about them in multiple threads, you just lack the knowledge of their existence which is your issue, not mine. I simply pointed out the major example of it. It is funny to me that almost none of the posters who will defend even the dumbest stuff AEW does are never in the live thread. Some of them just swoop in after the fact to post their talking points.
> 
> So, to summarize, you have no idea what you are talking about on multiple topics. You think if anyone has criticisms of a show, they should just turn it off vs discussing it or wanting it to be better. That just makes no sense. I am curious what is on your list of perfect shows that should never be critiqued.


Sorry to barge in here like this, but...

I'm not an "instant gratification" generation user of this forum, watching and reacting to the live thread more than the actual show itself. You want wrestling examples of "geek" and "nerd"... there you go. Is there any other TV show or live sports you're conversing with others on a regular basis? Probably not, huh? UFC has even gone the way of instant gratification, displaying tweets (which is highly annoying at best) from, usually, other fighters and famous people, about how great the show is. That's just as bad as WWE banging you over the head with "the first time in history..." and "the #1 trend in the United States". It's all cringeworthy and yes, even when AEW does it, which is very rarely. I like to just sit down and enjoy a show, without interruption, or wondering/caring what others are saying that second.

Talking about TV shows that people have stopped watching mid-season over the years... I have. WWE, Dexter, The Walking Dead, Fear The Walking Dead, Watchmen, Deadwood and others I'm sure, but these are the "big ones" that I stopped watching, full-stop. If something no longer holds my interest, I stop watching. Period. It's a very simple concept, yet I have no idea why wrestling (AEW specifically) doesn't/shouldn't qualify in that same decision making. You're only making yourselves look like hypocrites, in watching something you hate each and every week. It's not like AEW has been around forever like WWE and people watch it "just because...", but you're making a conscious decision to sit down for 2 hours and watch AEW, only to be disappointed in the end. The non-stop criticism is then, beyond all comprehension. It makes no sense.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

Two Sheds said:


> But yet they feel the need to create an account here and whine that people want to discuss all aspects of a company. If they just wanted to watch and enjoy the show, nothing is preventing them from doing so.


I mean during the live shows.

Realistically, any actually reasonable person isn't opposed to discussing all aspects of a company, what some people aren't down with is just constant negativity, I know that's why I quit listening to Cornette. Shit's just tiresome after a point. 

Not accusing you or anything, just trying to explain where some here might be coming from.


----------



## yeahright2

DammitChrist said:


> Oh, I don't back down from anything. You're not intimidating.
> 
> However, both of you do come across as irrational and aggressive, so it looks like I don't owe you anything until you guys finally decide to settle down.


Still not answering a simple question..


----------



## One Shed

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> I mean during the live shows.
> 
> Realistically, any actually reasonable person isn't opposed to discussing all aspects of a company, what some people aren't down with is just constant negativity, I know that's why I quit listening to Cornette. Shit's just tiresome after a point.
> 
> Not accusing you or anything, just trying to explain where some here might be coming from.


Yes, I do understand how someone who only posts to say negative things about a product would be as annoying as someone who would praise everything. One reason I almost never go into the RAW forum anymore. I just do not have anything positive to say about that show anymore and have not been able to watch more than 30 minutes of it since Mania.

The good thing is Cornette's YouTube channel does break up segments into separate videos so for those who do enjoy his road stories and historical stuff but hate his take on modern stuff, you can just get the segments you like without having to sit through the whole show.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

Two Sheds said:


> Yes, I do understand how someone who only posts to say negative things about a product would be as annoying as someone who would praise everything. One reason I almost never go into the RAW forum anymore. I just do not have anything positive to say about that show anymore and have not been able to watch more than 30 minutes of it since Mania.
> 
> The good thing is Cornette's YouTube channel does break up segments into separate videos so for those who do enjoy his road stories and historical stuff but hate his take on modern stuff, you can just get the segments you like without having to sit through the whole show.


Yeah, I do still check back in from time to time. I don't hate the guy or anything, but yeah his modern takes can be a little much -- especially when you're not even sure if he's being real or just working a gimmick because he knows controversy creates cash.


----------



## One Shed

Garty said:


> Sorry to barge in here like this, but...
> 
> I'm not an "instant gratification" generation user of this forum, watching and reacting to the live thread more than the actual show itself. You want wrestling examples of "geek" and "nerd"... there you go. Is there any other TV show or live sports you're conversing with others on a regular basis? Probably not, huh? UFC has even gone the way of instant gratification, displaying tweets (which is highly annoying at best) from, usually, other fighters and famous people, about how great the show is. That's just as bad as WWE banging you over the head with "the first time in history..." and "the #1 trend in the United States". It's all cringeworthy and yes, even when AEW does it, which is very rarely. I like to just sit down and enjoy a show, without interruption, or wondering/caring what others are saying that second.
> 
> Talking about TV shows that people have stopped watching mid-season over the years... I have. WWE, Dexter, The Walking Dead, Fear The Walking Dead, Watchmen, Deadwood and others I'm sure, but these are the "big ones" that I stopped watching, full-stop. If something no longer holds my interest, I stop watching. Period. It's a very simple concept, yet I have no idea why wrestling (AEW specifically) doesn't/shouldn't qualify in that same decision making. You're only making yourselves look like hypocrites, in watching something you hate each and every week. It's not like AEW has been around forever like WWE and people watch it "just because...", but you're making a conscious decision to sit down for 2 hours and watch AEW, only to be disappointed in the end. The non-stop criticism is then, beyond all comprehension. It makes no sense.


I definitely completely understand wanting to watch the show uninterrupted. Absolutely nothing wrong with that at all. I would say that the only shows I DO watch live are sports now and do enjoy discussing those as they air whether it be wrestling, UFC, or football. I mostly mentioned the live thread to point out how wrong people are who say I ONLY post negative things and that would just be the most prolific example of that. I do hate when WWE gives us the "More people tweeted about WWE than the NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB combined" stats. It is definitely cringeworthy and comes across to me as "see, we are popular too!" You would never see the NFL doing something like that.

For the second point, maybe I did not get across what I meant to in my post. Of course when a show I like becomes more bad than good, I stop watching it as well. What I was trying to say was people generally do not immediately stop watching just because of one bad episode or one bad character or storyline. Yes, over time it happens, but usually not instantly I would argue. I have taken long breaks from WWE too and just had to stop watching RAW pretty much after Mania but it was a long journey to get there. It was not a case of "well The New Day exists so I am gone." So yes, once something goes downhill, I will stop watching eventually. I would find it weird to watch something I hated also. I still like more in AEW than I hate so I am still watching. I stopped watching Dark but I also no longer go in the Dark thread to comment on that. If someone brings up a segment on Dark in another thread, I might reply with something like "Oh wow, they really had that guy be competitive with Jelly?" or "Oh, that match sounds great, I will check it out."

For me at least, I get frustrated when I see a company that looks to me to have a TON of potential (and I do think AEW has that) but then has things like Miro feuding over an XBox or puts a small child in matches. I hope they improve and they do a lot I like, it just feels very schizophrenic to me and I am not alone in that. So as long as I think AEW has that potential and overall presents me with more things that I like than I do not like, I will keep watching them, just like any other product. I just do not think there is anyone on here who actually watches the show and posts 100% hate about it. There are people who do not watch the product at all but post about it though.


----------



## Klitschko

Any prediction for the rating this week? I'm going with 1.1 million.


----------



## RapShepard

Klitschko said:


> Any prediction for the rating this week? I'm going with 1.1 million.


984k .32 demo


----------



## TD Stinger

1.3m, .40 demo


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Two Sheds said:


> Definitely. He was an internet darling when he pointed out the nonsensical things WWE did. But as soon as he used that same logic and mindset towards the indy guys and then AEW, suddenly he was enemy #1.
> 
> I also do not think anyone on here wants Corny to be Vince and be the final arbiter of booking a product. I do not either as I disagree with him on plenty. But he is probably the best wrestling historian alive and comes up with a ton of creative ideas off the top of his head so he would improve any product he was involved in. Like any good product, you would have other guys to filter some of the bad ideas out.


*What are some red flag bad ideas he's had in regards to AEW though? His idea for Pinnacle and the Inner Circle was 10 times better than what we saw on TV with 5 minutes of thought.*


----------



## yeahright2

Klitschko said:


> Any prediction for the rating this week? I'm going with 1.1 million.


shameless plug for the Ratings game thread if you care to join 
AEW Ratings prediction game


----------



## CM Buck

LifeInCattleClass said:


> almost never - definitely not about ‘flaws’ - real love and building a relationship is not just looking past flaws, but learning to love them
> 
> ps> addictions like alcholism, gambling, adultery are not ‘flaws’ fyi


Dude arguments are about flaws. Arguments result from conflict. Bobby didn't help with the chores one day, peggy got upset, they resolved it. In that moment its still a flaw.

So given AEW is episodic if they fuck up or under deliver then its fair game to criticise.

The problem in this section isn't criticism. Its dead horse criticism. It frustrates some of you so much that any new criticism or any form of it makes you hostile.

Not every critic is an angry aussie is my point


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Firefromthegods said:


> Dude arguments are about flaws. Arguments result from conflict. Bobby didn't help with the chores one day, peggy got upset, they resolved it. In that moment its still a flaw.
> 
> So given AEW is episodic if they fuck up or under deliver then its fair game to criticise.
> 
> The problem in this section isn't criticism. Its dead horse criticism. It frustrates some of you so much that any new criticism or any form of it makes you hostile.
> 
> Not every critic is an angry aussie is my point


*It's like they don't understand we complain because we want the product to be good. If I thought this promotion was beyond saving, I wouldn't watch it like RAW and NXT, but they have way too many entertaining wrestlers with untapped potential to be wasted by idiotic booking.*


----------



## VIP86

imagine people giving themselves the right to tell other people what to do and what not to do
imagine worshiping an entity (AEW) and its leader (Tony Khan) to the point of not wanting any free opinions around it
imagine attacking and going after people who dare to present a different view
all this is suspiciously the symptoms of Fascism
guess what history tell us about Fascism......it doesn't really end well for the Fascists
which is what we are seeing now
the honeymoon is over
more and more people every day realise the stupidity of what they're seeing
and as more people criticize what's presented to them
the more the Fascists will get frustrated and start attacking people uncontrollably
AEW's biggest problem is not that they don't have a booker (which they Don't) as much as it's the Fascists who surround it

if the idiots in charge of the company only see mindless cheering, then there will be no hope for improving


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

VIP86 said:


> imagine people giving themselves the right to tell other people what to do and what not to do
> imagine worshiping an entity (AEW) and its leader (Tony Khan) to the point of not wanting any free opinions around it
> imagine attacking and going after people who dare to present a different view
> all this is suspiciously the symptoms of Fascism
> guess what history tell us about Fascism......it doesn't really end well for the Fascists
> which is what we are seeing now
> the honeymoon is over
> more and more people every day realise the stupidity of what they're seeing
> and as more people criticize what's presented to them
> the more the Fascists will get frustrated and start attacking people uncontrollably
> AEW's biggest problem is not that they don't have a booker (which they Don't) as much as it's the Fascists who surround it
> 
> if the idiots in charge of the company only see mindless cheering, then there will be no hope for improving


*Thankfully they see the negative reviews and created a booking council as a result.*


----------



## VIP86

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Thankfully they see the negative reviews and created a booking council as a result.*


and who are the members of this booking council
are there any legitimate experienced booker amongst it
or the same clowns just sitting together instead of different rooms


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

_Roll Eyes_

Missing the point Completely.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

1.25m - blooood and guuuts baby


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Firefromthegods said:


> Dude arguments are about flaws. Arguments result from conflict. Bobby didn't help with the chores one day, peggy got upset, they resolved it. In that moment its still a flaw.
> 
> So given AEW is episodic if they fuck up or under deliver then its fair game to criticise.
> 
> The problem in this section isn't criticism. Its dead horse criticism. It frustrates some of you so much that any new criticism or any form of it makes you hostile.
> 
> Not every critic is an angry aussie is my point


wait.... are we talking about relationships or AEW now

i know you lads love wrestling.... but.... a love for a wife and love for a show is different 

listen mate, serious though - who cares about the ‘criticism‘? It does nothing, achieves nothing - this forum is a lame duck. It has no power in the wrestling world - twitter has, and that’s about it

so, any criticism here is purely to annoy each other - especially the overt, incessant kind. You know the type i’m talking about.

what does it achieve? Its only goal is to try and take small pieces of joy away from people one inch at a time - and that is kinda sad.


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> wait.... are we talking about relationships or AEW now
> 
> i know you lads love wrestling.... but.... a love for a wife and love for a show is different
> 
> listen mate, serious though - who cares about the ‘criticism‘? It does nothing, achieves nothing - this forum is a lame duck. It has no power in the wrestling world - twitter has, and that’s about it
> 
> so, any criticism here is purely to annoy each other - especially the overt, incessant kind. You know the type i’m talking about.
> 
> what does it achieve? Its only goal is to try and take small pieces of joy away from people one inch at a time - and that is kinda sad.


Want an echo chamber with no dissent? Join a church not a forum. What happens when you eliminate all the "haters" but you say 16 dives are too many but someone else says 17 is fine? Blasphemy! You must now too be excommunicated.


----------



## VIP86

Two Sheds said:


> Want an echo chamber with no dissent? Join a church not a forum. What happens when you eliminate all the "haters" but you say 16 dives are too many but someone else says 17 is fine? Blasphemy! You must now too be excommunicated.


dude, they will cannibalize each other in a heartbeat 😄
honestly, they should be thanking the critics 
they're giving them the opportunity to be as condescending as they are


----------



## DammitChrist

Two Sheds said:


> Want an echo chamber with no dissent? Join a church not a forum. What happens when you eliminate all the "haters" but you say 16 dives are too many but someone else says 17 is fine? Blasphemy! You must now too be excommunicated.


The critics unsurprisingly want a negative echo chamber on here, but resort to pretending that they "want the product to be good" even though their blatant resentment says otherwise 😂

Thankfully, they choose to continue catering to the wrestling fans who truly understand that the product is good.



VIP86 said:


> dude, they will cannibalize each other in a heartbeat 😄
> honestly, they should be thanking the critics
> they're giving them the opportunity to be as condescending as they are


Nah, people like you would just continue to hurt the product tbh.


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, people like you would just continue to hurt the product tbh.


oh you don't need to worry about that
since the clowns in charge of the company only listen to the fanboys and never to the critics
the only people who are hurting the product are the mindless fan boys who don't want it to change for the better
it's not my fault that i have standards and don't just accept any garbage presented to me

as much as the fanboys like to pretend, but this is not the indies any more
once you go nationally, then at least you should appear profissional

but this would require experienced people at the helm
not some spoiled rich idiot who's living his childhood dream to be a booker


----------



## DammitChrist

VIP86 said:


> oh you don't need to worry about that
> since the clowns in charge of the company only listen to the fanboys and never to the critics
> the only people who are hurting the product are the mindless fan boys who don't want it to change for the better
> it's not my fault that i have standards and don't just accept any garbage presented to me
> 
> as much as the fanboys like to pretend, but this is not the indies any more
> once you go nationally, then at least you should appear profissional
> 
> but this would require experienced people at the helm
> not some spoiled rich idiot who's living his childhood dream to be a booker


That's honestly pretty weird. I could've sworn that the optimistic wrestling fans (who enjoy AEW) are the ones with actual standards here.

If they bothered listening to you, I fear that the overall product could actually get worse tbh.


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> That's honestly pretty weird. I could've sworn that the optimistic wrestling fans (who enjoy AEW) are the ones with actual standards here.


Delusions
but if you like it, good for you
i don't judge other people preferences like you do
since i'm not a Troll like you 
Trolly MCTroll


DammitChrist said:


> If they bothered listening to you, I fear that the overall product could actually get worse tbh.


of course it would get worse, since i'm not a Booker
but guess what
neither is Tony Khan, or the Elite morons squad
there are much more qualified experienced people
and the funny thing is, some of them are working inside the fucking company

i only judge the stupidity that i see in front of me
never claimed before that i can run a wrestling company, just like Tony Khan or the Elite morons squad can't either

but please by all means continue Trolling
Trolly MCTroll


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> wait.... are we talking about relationships or AEW now
> 
> i know you lads love wrestling.... but.... a love for a wife and love for a show is different
> 
> *listen mate, serious though - who cares about the ‘criticism‘? It does nothing, achieves nothing - this forum is a lame duck. It has no power in the wrestling world - twitter has, and that’s about it
> 
> so, any criticism here is purely to annoy each other - especially the overt, incessant kind. You know the type i’m talking about.
> 
> what does it achieve? Its only goal is to try and take small pieces of joy away from people one inch at a time* - and that is kinda sad.


Holy christ this is soft lol. "none of this matters, but also don't steal people's joy by daring to not praise everything". Jesus christ that's ridiculous


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Two Sheds said:


> Want an echo chamber with no dissent? Join a church not a forum. What happens when you eliminate all the "haters" but you say 16 dives are too many but someone else says 17 is fine? Blasphemy! You must now too be excommunicated.


*He's basically saying he'll ignore all facts and logic if they're negative, and that's when I utilize the ignore feature on the forum because I know nothing substantial will come out of that user's post.*


----------



## Ger

Another thread ruined by a certain user.  Just waiting for Cornette getting blamed for AEW's bad ratings. For the good ratings uncle Dave is already worshipped.


----------



## Hayabusasc

Ger said:


> Another thread ruined by a certain user.  Just waiting for Cornette getting blamed for AEW's bad ratings. For the good ratings uncle Dave is already worshipped.


Is there any thread you're not going to cry like a little girl in? Seriously get over yourself. Every single damn thread you have to bring up your pointless feud in and it's getting quite tiresome.


----------



## Ger

Hayabusasc said:


> Is there any thread you're not going to cry like a little girl in? Seriously get over yourself. Every single damn thread you have to bring up your pointless feud in and it's getting quite tiresome.


Another 12 years old account with just 100 postings. I care so much about what you write.


----------



## Hayabusasc

Ger said:


> Another 12 years old account with just 100 postings. I care so much about what you write.


Whatever you say buddy. I just think you're being exceptionally childish.


----------



## Outlaw91

Ger said:


> Another thread ruined by a certain user.  Just waiting for Cornette getting blamed for AEW's bad ratings. For the good ratings uncle Dave is already worshipped.


Come on, man! You only posted once, the thread isn't ruined yet.


----------



## Ger

Hayabusasc said:


> Whatever you say buddy. I just think you're being exceptionally childish.


In opposite to you, I got the balls to sort out my issues with my one and only account.



Outlaw91 said:


> Come on, man! You only posted once, the thread isn't ruined yet.


ROFL, true! 
To bad, a certain group of people won't get, that you just made a joke. Maybe uncle Dave will explain them one day ...


----------



## Outlaw91

Ger said:


> In opposite to you, I got the balls to sort out my issues with my one and only account.
> 
> 
> 
> ROFL, true!
> To bad, a certain group of people won't get, that you just made a joke. Maybe uncle Dave will explain them one day ...


All that matters is that you got it. Do you have uncle Dave on speed dial?


----------



## Ger

Outlaw91 said:


> All that matters is that you got it. Do you have uncle Dave on speed dial?


I am not Jim Cornette, so the answer is NO.


----------



## Outlaw91

Ger said:


> I am not Jim Cornette, so the answer is NO.


Really, does he?


----------



## Hayabusasc

Ger said:


> In opposite to you, I got the balls to sort out my issues with my one and only account.


Yes you caught me, I joined 12 years ago and didn't post for at least 10 of those but brought this account out of retirement solely to have a go at some little child that can't get over some guy saying something months ago. Damn you're just too clever.


----------



## Ger

Hayabusasc said:


> Yes you caught me, I joined 12 years ago and didn't post for at least 10 of those but brought this account out of retirement solely to have a go at some little child that can't get over some guy saying something months ago. Damn you're just too clever.


Still telling us your "interesting fantasies"? I won`t react on that, doesn't matter how often you try. Bring your real account and we can talk.


----------



## Outlaw91

Hayabusasc said:


> Yes you caught me, I joined 12 years ago and didn't post for at least 10 of those but brought this account out of retirement solely to have a go at some little child that can't get over some guy saying something months ago. Damn you're just too clever.


----------



## Hayabusasc

Ger said:


> Still telling us your "interesting fantasies"? I won`t react on that, doesn't matter how often you try. Bring your real account and we can talk.


Put your money where your mouth is then. I'm happy for any Admin/Mod to thoroughly investigate my account - if they find any account linked to mine that suggests I'm an alt, I leave the forum. If they don't, you leave the forum instead. Deal?


----------



## Ger

Hayabusasc said:


> Put your money where your mouth is then. I'm happy for any Admin/Mod to thoroughly investigate my account - if they find any account linked to mine that suggests I'm an alt, I leave the forum. If they don't, you leave the forum instead. Deal?


This is your fourth try. Again: Bring your real account and we can talk.


----------



## Hayabusasc

Ger said:


> This is your fourth try. Again: Bring your real account and we can talk.


So not man enough to back up your empty gaslighting and actually make the deal then? Thought so. 😂


----------



## ProjectGargano

Ger said:


> Still telling us your "interesting fantasies"? I won`t react on that, doesn't matter how often you try. Bring your real account and we can talk.


WWE and Cornette mark and creating trouble in AEW threads without even being constructive? What else?


----------



## Ger

ProjectGargano said:


> WWE and Cornette mark and creating trouble in AEW threads without even being constructive? What else?


Yeah, what else you got?  _Walls of text_? 
I said NOTHING and so many accounts get soooo upset about that. Would be interesting to see, IF I really start to say something, but I am not negotiating with substitutes.  Btw, I put both of you on ignore now. Bye bye!


----------



## CM Buck

Im more mature, no i am, they are hurting my feelings not liking my favourite toy, we are not our toy is better.


----------



## Outlaw91

Firefromthegods said:


> Im more mature, no i am, they are hurting my feelings not liking my favourite toy, we are not our toy is better.


I think Ger's toy is the best, or at least the best working toy.


----------



## CM Buck

Outlaw91 said:


> I think Ger's toy is the best, or at least the best working toy.


Nah i meant the CC and the AAA


----------



## Ger

Firefromthegods said:


> Im more mature, no i am, they are hurting my feelings not liking my favourite toy, we are not our toy is better.


The ironic part: some of the guys on the last 10 pages watch all shows of both companies. So what is this conflict about anyway? 



Outlaw91 said:


> I think Ger's toy is the best, or at least the best working toy.


I say it like it is: I got no clue what you are talking about and I guess I don't care anyway. We should not overinterprete all the time. I wasn't active on this board for a few days - I got a life, sorry - and the last thread I read was similar to his one: Certain someone discussed with everybody about Cornette and having a "wrong opinion" about wrestling stuff.


----------



## CM Buck

Ger said:


> The ironic part: some of the guys on the last 10 pages watch all shows of both companies. So what is this conflict about anyway?
> 
> 
> 
> I say it like it is: I got no clue what you are talking about and I guess I don't care anyway. We should not overinterprete all the time. I wasn't active on this board for a few days - I got a life, sorry - and the last thread I read was similar to his one: Certain someone discussed with everybody about Cornette and having a "wrong opinion" about wrestling stuff.


Real life is boring, no wrestling, they're out of cheetos and mountain dew its typical wrestling fan behaviour. Avoid getting sucked in or youll be fighting with someone you never met about a company or podcaster who doesn't even know you exist


----------



## Outlaw91

Ger said:


> I say it like it is: I got no clue what you are talking about and I guess I don't care anyway. We should not overinterprete all the time.


Oops!... Sorry, dude! I didn't know it was a secret. My bad, it won't happen again!


----------



## DammitChrist

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *He's basically saying he'll ignore all facts and logic if they're negative, and that's when I utilize the ignore feature on the forum because I know nothing substantial will come out of that user's post.*


Hey, since you shamelessly brought me up, thank you for exposing yourself for your blatant intolerance here (along with the unsubstantial bias and poor takes too).


----------



## Outlaw91

DammitChrist said:


> Hey, since you shamelessly brought me up, thank you for exposing yourself for your blatant intolerance here (along with the unsubstantial bias and poor takes too).


Cornette's cult and their facts...


----------



## yeahright2

DammitChrist said:


> Oh, I don't back down from anything. You're not intimidating.
> 
> However, both of you do come across as irrational and aggressive, so it looks like I don't owe you anything until you guys finally decide to settle down.





yeahright2 said:


> @DammitChrist I´m still waiting for an answer?
> 
> What´s the matter? you´re usually quick enough to spout your "facts".. Afraid to be outed?


I´m still waiting.
Do you deny AEW tried to hire Cornette? It´s a fairly simple question, should be easy to answer..


----------



## VIP86

yeahright2 said:


> I´m still waiting.
> Do you deny AEW tried to hire Cornette? It´s a fairly simple question, should be easy to answer..


actually it's a very hard question
because it would require admitting that AEW needed him (and they still are)


----------



## El Hammerstone

VIP86 said:


> actually it's a very hard question
> because it would require admitting that AEW needed him (and they still are)


Hey now, Jim Cornette is a "racist", so if he says 2+2=4, then clearly it equals 5


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

yeahright2 said:


> I´m still waiting.
> Do you deny AEW tried to hire Cornette? It´s a fairly simple question, should be easy to answer..


*I just find it funny that he made this into a pseudo Cornette thread unprovoked and is actively baiting Cornette listeners, yet is also attempting to call us aggressive and irrational when we have only responded calmly with logic while he's yelling irrelevant ad-hominems at himself. This is why I haven't taken him seriously in years.*


----------



## One Shed

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I just find it funny that he made this into a pseudo Cornette thread unprovoked and is actively baiting Cornette listeners, yet is also attempting to call us aggressive and irrational when we have only responded calmly with logic while he's yelling irrelevant ad-hominems at himself. This is why I haven't taken him seriously in years.*


Projection 101.


----------



## DammitChrist

yeahright2 said:


> I´m still waiting.
> Do you deny AEW tried to hire Cornette? It´s a fairly simple question, should be easy to answer..


Gee, I wonder what I should do.

Continue watching today's NJPW event from earlier this morning (since I'm about halfway through), or giving you yet another response to your question that'll just fall on deaf ears among the Cornette followers :thinking

Yea, I think that I'll just go with the former.

Please proceed to think 5 is equivalent to 2+2 though 



BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I just find it funny that he made this into a pseudo Cornette thread unprovoked and is actively baiting Cornette listeners, yet is also attempting to call us aggressive and irrational when we have only responded calmly with logic while he's yelling at himself. This is why I haven't taken him seriously in years.*


Except you're proven to be passive aggressive and hostile yourself to anyone who points out that your top favorites aren't the big draws that you think they are (even though nobody is really a big draw). How are my posts "not" calm when you repeatedly mock wrestling fans who oppose your viewpoints (especially making this about me just because I roasted that bitter guy)?

You obviously shouldn't be taken seriously at all since you pretend like you post "facts", "logic" ( 😂 ), or "valuable" information in your posts (let alone the fact that you seem to get a hard-on for Cornette) :lol

You want to complain about me pointing out the fact that his followers are aggressive?

Look at how you and your peers are dogpiling on here because someone doesn't value Cornette at all : punk2


----------



## VIP86

El Hammerstone said:


> Hey now, Jim Cornette is a "racist", so if he says 2+2=4, then clearly it equals 5


yep, it's amazing how the racist label is given away like candy in halloween
all hollywood actors must be racists then, since they all used racial slurs in their movies


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

DammitChrist said:


> Gee, I wonder what I should do.
> 
> Continue watching today's NJPW event from earlier this morning (since I'm about halfway through), or giving you yet another response to your question that'll just fall on deaf ears among the Cornette followers :thinking
> 
> Yea, I think that I'll just go with the former.
> 
> Please proceed to think 5 is equivalent to 2+2 though
> 
> 
> 
> Except you're proven to be passive aggressive and hostile yourself to anyone who points out that your top favorites aren't the big draws that you think they are (even though nobody is really a big draw). How are my posts "not" calm when you repeatedly mock wrestling fans who oppose your viewpoints (especially making this about me just because I roasted that bitter guy)?
> 
> You obviously shouldn't be taken seriously at all since you pretend like you post "facts", "logic" ( 😂 ), or "valuable" information in your posts (let alone the fact that you seem to get a hard-on for Cornette) :lol
> 
> You want to complain about me pointing out the fact that his followers are aggressive?
> 
> Look at how you and your peers are dogpiling on here because someone doesn't value Cornette at all : punk2


Exactly. And then wanna put on a cape and be a hero and acting like him complaining is doing anything. Lmao.


----------



## El Hammerstone

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Exactly. And then wanna put on a cape and be a hero and acting like him complaining is doing anything. Lmao.


Oh, by the way, you've been dodging a simple question for several pages as well. Care to respond? Or are you going to claim "intimidation tactics" as well?

To save you the time, the question was "do you believe every actor who has ever played the part of a villain in a TV show or movie is somehow that character in real life?"


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

El Hammerstone said:


> Oh, by the way, you've been dodging a simple question for several pages as well. Care to respond? Or are you going to claim "intimidation tactics" as well?
> 
> To save you the time, the question was "do you believe every actor who has ever played the part of a villain in a TV show or movie is somehow that character in real life?"


That wasn't directly asked to me so I wasn't dodging it...


----------



## El Hammerstone

The Raw Smackdown said:


> That wasn't directly asked to me so I wasn't dodging it...


It was asked in response to a post of yours; you were the one quoted. So will you answer it?


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

El Hammerstone said:


> It was asked in response to a post of yours; you were the one quoted. So will you answer it?


Oh so now you wanna come for me now since DC won't entertain your petty ass. Guess what. I'm not entertain you either so you can keep waiting on that answer.


----------



## El Hammerstone

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Oh so now you wanna come for me now since DC won't entertain your petty ass. Guess what. I'm not entertain you either so you can keep waiting on that answer.


Yeah, that's what I thought


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*So after 10 pages of nonsense and bad trolling, is anyone ready to continue talking about ratings?*


----------



## yeahright2

DammitChrist said:


> Gee, I wonder what I should do.
> 
> Continue watching today's NJPW event from earlier this morning (since I'm about halfway through), or giving you yet another response to your question that'll just fall on deaf ears among the Cornette followers :thinking
> 
> Yea, I think that I'll just go with the former.
> 
> Please proceed to think 5 is equivalent to 2+2 though
> 
> 
> 
> Except you're proven to be passive aggressive and hostile yourself to anyone who points out that your top favorites aren't the big draws that you think they are (even though nobody is really a big draw). How are my posts "not" calm when you repeatedly mock wrestling fans who oppose your viewpoints (especially making this about me just because I roasted that bitter guy)?
> 
> You obviously shouldn't be taken seriously at all since you pretend like you post "facts", "logic" ( 😂 ), or "valuable" information in your posts (let alone the fact that you seem to get a hard-on for Cornette) :lol
> 
> You want to complain about me pointing out the fact that his followers are aggressive?
> 
> Look at how you and your peers are dogpiling on here because someone doesn't value Cornette at all : punk2


Still no real answer, just the usual deflection.
What´s the matter? Doesn´t the answer fit your narrative since you have to write a wall of text to deflect from one simple question.?

Do you deny AEW asked Cornette to work for them?


----------



## Dr. Middy

I think they'll do well over a million this Wednesday. With the exception of Pinnacle coming into this somewhat weaker than they should be as a new group, they really have done a hell of a job with the segments to build up Blood and Guts, so I see that bringing people in. I just hope it delivers, especially as a more violent affair as NXT's version doesn't exactly go that route. 

Could see the number remaining near the highest point of the show all the way to the end.


----------



## VIP86

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *So after 10 pages of nonsense and bad trolling, is anyone ready to continue talking about ratings?*


i do
and i will start by presenting another possible excuse if a bad rating happened
April 5th is the "National Maritime Day"
ships in seas and all that
that could possibly be very damaging to the "Demo"


----------



## VIP86

1.4 million it's doable


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> I think they'll do well over a million this Wednesday. With the exception of Pinnacle coming into this somewhat weaker than they should be as a new group, they really have done a hell of a job with the segments to build up Blood and Guts, so I see that bringing people in. I just hope it delivers, especially as a more violent affair as NXT's version doesn't exactly go that route.
> 
> Could see the number remaining near the highest point of the show all the way to the end.


*I'm going to guess 1.2 mil.*


----------



## Brad Boyd

DammitChrist said:


> Look at how you and your peers are dogpiling on here because someone doesn't value Cornette at all : punk2


DC you have to start revealing your emojis. No one is ever seeing them.


----------



## Dr. Middy

I'll go right between y'all and say 1.3.

Wonder if it peaks in the second half. First half will be some segments and taped matches.


----------



## RapShepard

They'll be just shy of a million I'm guessing. I don't think there's much interest in this match or story to bring in 300k+ viewers. There's no real stakes to this match. I think it'd been better for ratings if it was a Kenny's gang vs Moxley gang with all the gold on the line or something.


----------



## DammitChrist

I'll go with somewhere between 1.1 million viewers to 1.3 million viewers for this upcoming Dynamite episode (aka Blood and Guts).



yeahright2 said:


> Still no real answer, just the usual deflection.
> What´s the matter? Doesn´t the answer fit your narrative since you have to write a wall of text to deflect from one simple question.?
> 
> Do you deny AEW asked Cornette to work for them?


Please quit (sadly) derailing the topic like you and crew have been doing over the past 10 pages.



Brad Boyd said:


> DC you have to start revealing your emojis. No one is ever seeing them.


Oh, those smileys and emojis were here before the December 2019 update


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> Still no real answer, just the usual deflection.
> What´s the matter? Doesn´t the answer fit your narrative since you have to write a wall of text to deflect from one simple question.?
> 
> Do you deny AEW asked Cornette to work for them?


legit question cause i don’t know

was it ever reported anywhere else - except on Cornette’s say-so, that he was in talks with AEW?

like, a reputable news source - i would like to read the article as i’ve seen it mentioned a few times


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

I'm gonna say just a little bit over 1 million and second for the night if there is an NBA game. Cinco De Mayo is gonna put a massive dent in the last reunion episode of The Challenge and pull some of the demo from AEW, but with no major news like the State of the Union the overall viewership especially from the 50+ will be up.


----------



## DammitChrist

Wait, is the final special (episode) of the Challenge taking place this week or next week? 

I lost track atm, but I remember hearing a couple of weeks ago how there were supposed to be like 3 specials after their season finale or something.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

DammitChrist said:


> Wait, is the final special (episode) of the Challenge taking place this week or next week?
> 
> I lost track atm, but I remember hearing a couple of weeks ago how there were supposed to be like 3 specials after their season finale or something.


Oh thought it was only 2, so figured it was this week. Not sure then, I don't watch the show myself.


----------



## RapShepard

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> I'm gonna say just a little bit over 1 million and second for the night if there is an NBA game. Cinco De Mayo is gonna put a massive dent in the last reunion episode of The Challenge and pull some of the demo from AEW, but with no major news like the State of the Union the overall viewership especially from the 50+ will be up.


For fucks sake no we're setting aside excuses for Cinco De fucking Mayo [emoji23]


----------



## DammitChrist

RapShepard said:


> For fucks sake no we're setting aside excuses for Cinco De fucking Mayo [emoji23]


Nah, he’s pointing out reasonable explanations here for this week just to cover all bases here in advance.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> For fucks sake no we're setting aside excuses for Cinco De fucking Mayo [emoji23]


*I really hope people don't believe 300,000 Mexicans watch this show, lol.*


----------



## El Hammerstone

Here I figured NXT changing nights would lead to Dynamite's "real" rating, oh well.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

El Hammerstone said:


> Here I figured NXT changing nights would lead to Dynamite's "real" rating, oh well.


*The real test will be the show after this week's.*


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, he’s pointing out reasonable explanations here for this week just to cover all bases here in advance.


 He's pre-making bad excuses just in case they don't hit over a million.


----------



## DammitChrist

RapShepard said:


> He's pre-making bad excuses just in case they don't hit over a million.


Well, I’m sure that the rating for this week will be a strong one since the card does look stacked.

He’s simply just giving us a heads-up in case there’s a weird rating for whatever reason, so it’s admirable that he’s informing us with any major outside factors here


----------



## RapShepard

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I really hope people don't believe 300,000 Mexicans watch this show, lol.*


Even if they had 300k Mexican fans, all the excuses have to stop. Something else is always on TV and life happens. At some point these 2 things have to stop being used as a safety net. Especially since they generally do good numbers anyway.


----------



## Dr. Middy

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I really hope people don't believe 300,000 Mexicans watch this show, lol.*


Don't underestimate how many of them love Fenix and Pentagon!

Edit: I legit read this conversation backwards. I'm an idiot lol.


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> Well, I’m sure that the rating for this week will be a strong one since the card does look stacked.
> 
> He’s simply just informing us in case there’s a weird rating for whatever reason, so it’s admirable that he’s informing us with any major outside factors here


Look I get it you want an excuse just in case. It's still an excuse.


----------



## Dr. Middy

They don't have any excuses for a bad number this week. 

Only thing is if you suddenly have some massive news event that every news channel needs to broadcast all at once like the capitol riots. Then yeah, understandable.


----------



## yeahright2

DammitChrist said:


> I'll go with somewhere between 1.1 million viewers to 1.3 million viewers for this upcoming Dynamite episode (aka Blood and Guts).
> 
> 
> 
> Please quit (sadly) derailing the topic like you and crew have been doing over the past 10 pages.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, those smileys and emojis were here before the December 2019 update


Still deflecting. The only one derailing this thread is you.

Do you deny AEW tried to sign Cornette?


----------



## DammitChrist

Again, it’s not an “excuse” if it’s a possibly reasonable explanation. 



yeahright2 said:


> Still deflecting. The only one derailing this thread is you.
> 
> Do you deny AEW tried to sign Cornette?


Jeez, are you STILL asking me the same question that I already answered like 5 times already? :lol 

Yea, it’s safe to say that the topic is outdated now, so please move on instead of derailing.

I’m not repeating myself yet again.


----------



## yeahright2

DammitChrist said:


> Again, it’s not an “excuse” if it’s a possibly reasonable explanation.
> 
> 
> 
> Jeez, are you STILL asking me the same question that I already answered like 5 times already? :lol
> 
> Yea, it’s safe to say that the topic is outdated now, so please move on instead of derailing.
> 
> I’m not repeating myself yet again.


Okay. Quote the post where you answered that question and I´ll stop asking

Do you deny AEW tried to hire Cornette?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Even if they had 300k Mexican fans, all the excuses have to stop. Something else is always on TV and life happens. At some point these 2 things have to stop being used as a safety net. Especially since they generally do good numbers anyway.


*I see no reason for them to be under a mil, but again, the true test to me will be the show next week because that will be an accurate representation of who tunes in for AEW and not just the hot match of the month.*


----------



## The Wood

RapShepard said:


> Even if they had 300k Mexican fans, all the excuses have to stop. Something else is always on TV and life happens. At some point these 2 things have to stop being used as a safety net. Especially since they generally do good numbers anyway.


Yes, this. There is always something on. You have to be viable in that marketplace. AEW doesn’t impress me, but for the moment it is viable. But this idea that people really want to watch it, and really would, but, but, but...just needs to go away.

Especially since things like the news have basically been confirmed to not to the factor on Dynamite people try to use it as.

*More people watching the news does not mean fewer people watching wrestling.*

Yes, the news will affect the bullshit placement of AEW in a list of popularity this week. But let’s not pretend there is _any_ evidence that people are sitting around saying “Man, I really wish I could watch AEW right now, but that President’s speech is on, so I’m going to have to give that wrestling show I am hooked on a miss,” haha.

They’re different crowds. The people tuning in to Biden are probably people who were sitting around doing a puzzle on Wednesday night. This just isn’t necessarily the same pool of people that these excuses are pulling from.


----------



## VIP86

Dynamite will air in may 5th 2021, that's bad
may 5th 2021 is a bad day for ratings because......reasons
dynamite will be airing at the same time as other TV shows
plus, every show's ratings in may 5th 2021 will be down
it's not a matter of quality, oh no no no
this is a matter of universal conspiracy against Dynamite
someday we will know what evil organization is causing all the bad ratings for Dynamite
the truth shall not be hidden for long


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> legit question cause i don’t know
> 
> was it ever reported anywhere else - except on Cornette’s say-so, that he was in talks with AEW?
> 
> like, a reputable news source - i would like to read the article as i’ve seen it mentioned a few times


I know you´re not going to accept Cornette as a source, and obviously AEW doesn´t want to admit it.

But there´s a drivethrough (or experience, can´t remember which) where he gets as close to how it unfolded as he can vithout violating an NDA, and a later drivethrough (again, or Experience) where they talk about how AEW lawyers called him and informed him that he couldn´t say anything about AEW wanting to sign Goldberg.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> I know you´re not going to accept Cornette as a source, and obviously AEW doesn´t want to admit it.
> 
> But there´s a drivethrough (or experience, can´t remember which) where he gets as close to how it unfolded as he can vithout violating an NDA, and a later drivethrough (again, or Experience) where they talk about how AEW lawyers called him and informed him that he couldn´t say anything about AEW wanting to sign Goldberg.


lol - well, no - I would not accept Cornette as a legit source / just as a rarely (if ever) accept Uncle Dave

you guys were just going on about it so much, I thought there was some news I missed

so.... just Corny says it?


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

RapShepard said:


> For fucks sake no we're setting aside excuses for Cinco De fucking Mayo


Young people, Mexican or not take it as an excuse to go out and party. 🤷‍♂️ 

I'm psyched for the show but some people have other priorities. It's gonna hit The Challenge harder since the MTV crowd is prime age group and and the type of people that go out and party. AEW is still gonna do well for the night overall.


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol - well, no - I would not accept Cornette as a legit source / just as a rarely (if ever) accept Uncle Dave
> 
> you guys were just going on about it so much, I thought there was some news I missed
> 
> so.... just Corny says it?


Let me put it this way; I haven´t seen anyone report it. And really, how could they, if it happens in a closed telephone meeting between Cornette and Tony, unless one of them says something.
But do you really think Cornette would go through with such an elaborate ruse, even going so far as to "invent" a NDA and phonecalls from AEW lawyers when he gets too close, just to make himself look important? That´s far fetched..


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

yeahright2 said:


> Let me put it this way; I haven´t seen anyone report it. And really, how could they, if it happens in a closed telephone meeting between Cornette and Tony, unless one of them says something.
> But do you really think Cornette would go through with such an elaborate ruse, even going so far as to "invent" a NDA and phonecalls from AEW lawyers when he gets too close, just to make himself look important? That´s far fetched..


*There are dozens of YouTube videos where Cornette references the NDA and conversations he's had with Tony. It's well documented and no one has called him a liar yet, and we know that whole company listens to his rants.*


----------



## NathanMayberry

Here is a summary of this place since the start of the year... 

1/6 - The attempt at a Domestic Coup just ruined the ratings for what was otherwise a PPV quality show!

1/13 - With an Impeachment following an Insurrection, plus the Inauguration next week, January can't be reflective of anything ratings-wise!

1/20 - Inauguration was going to dominate the ratings this week, we went over this.

1/27 - The TNT feed went down for 15 minutes on some cable services, of course that was going to affect the quarter hours and make Dynamite's rating look bad!

2/3 - LOL EDGE ISN'T A DRAW, PLUS THE FORBIDDEN DOOR IS NOW WIDE OPEN

2/10 - The Impeachment destroyed everything, why does all the news have to happen on Wednesdays?!

2/17 - Now that the news has finally cleared out, AEW can finally move on up!

2/24 - ALRIGHT, BROKE 800K, NOW WE'RE TRENDING UPWARD AGAIN!

3/3 - WOO WE GOT THAT SHAQ RUB FOR 900K+, AND RIGHT BEFORE A BIG PPV TO BOOT. 1 MILLION, HERE WE COME!

3/10 - Of course South Park's Vaccination Special is going to draw! No, the sparklers on Sunday had nothing to do with it, why do you ask?

3/17 - Everyone was partying because it was St. Patrick's day, you guys!

3/24 - (Tbh, I got nothing for this one. There weren't even any March Madness games on. The thread is mostly about Omega not being a draw and the Forbidden Door being a bust)

3/31 - You guys, the ending to Revolution is proving to be more damaging than we realized.

4/7 - It was supposed to be a terrible number, the other guys were running a Takeover during WM weekend!

4/14 - WE GOT A MILLION UNOPPOSED, WE KNEW THAT NXT WAS THE PROBLEM ALL ALONG!

4/21 - LOST VIEWERS BUT STILL GOT OVER A MILLION SUCK IT LOSERS

4/28 - Biden's address affected everybody


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *The real test will be the show after this week's.*


The real test will be their average after 6 months. Some weeks are up some weeks are down, like Rap Shepard said, life happens and there are always gonna be other things on. The week after this is the start of the NBA playoffs, so that'll grab some amount of viewers. We already know their go home show for DoN is gonna be way down, because it's being bumped to Friday at 10.

Oh well. Shit happens.


----------



## yeahright2

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *There are dozens of YouTube videos where Cornette references the NDA and conversations he's had with Tony. It's well documented and no one has called him a liar yet, and we know that whole company listens to his rants.*


Yep, I know that, but @LifeInCattleClass asked me for a "reputable source". I knew he wouldn´t accept Cornette, and since I haven´t seen it reported on any wrestling sites other than ones who quotes Cornette, I have to say I haven´t seen any.


----------



## VIP86

NathanMayberry said:


> Here is a summary of this place since the start of the year...
> 
> 1/6 - The attempt at a Domestic Coup just ruined the ratings for what was otherwise a PPV quality show!
> 
> 1/13 - With an Impeachment following an Insurrection, plus the Inauguration next week, January can't be reflective of anything ratings-wise!
> 
> 1/20 - Inauguration was going to dominate the ratings this week, we went over this.
> 
> 1/27 - The TNT feed went down for 15 minutes on some cable services, of course that was going to affect the quarter hours and make Dynamite's rating look bad!
> 
> 2/3 - LOL EDGE ISN'T A DRAW, PLUS THE FORBIDDEN DOOR IS NOW WIDE OPEN
> 
> 2/10 - The Impeachment destroyed everything, why does all the news have to happen on Wednesdays?!
> 
> 2/17 - Now that the news has finally cleared out, AEW can finally move on up!
> 
> 2/24 - ALRIGHT, BROKE 800K, NOW WE'RE TRENDING UPWARD AGAIN!
> 
> 3/3 - WOO WE GOT THAT SHAQ RUB FOR 900K+, AND RIGHT BEFORE A BIG PPV TO BOOT. 1 MILLION, HERE WE COME!
> 
> 3/10 - Of course South Park's Vaccination Special is going to draw! No, the sparklers on Sunday had nothing to do with it, why do you ask?
> 
> 3/17 - Everyone was partying because it was St. Patrick's day, you guys!
> 
> 3/24 - (Tbh, I got nothing for this one. There weren't even any March Madness games on. The thread is mostly about Omega not being a draw and the Forbidden Door being a bust)
> 
> 3/31 - You guys, the ending to Revolution is proving to be more damaging than we realized.
> 
> 4/7 - It was supposed to be a terrible number, the other guys were running a Takeover during WM weekend!
> 
> 4/14 - WE GOT A MILLION UNOPPOSED, WE KNEW THAT NXT WAS THE PROBLEM ALL ALONG!
> 
> 4/21 - LOST VIEWERS BUT STILL GOT OVER A MILLION SUCK IT LOSERS
> 
> 4/28 - Biden's address affected everybody


May 5th - Cinco de Mayo


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> Let me put it this way; I haven´t seen anyone report it. And really, how could they, if it happens in a closed telephone meeting between Cornette and Tony, unless one of them says something.
> But do you really think Cornette would go through with such an elaborate ruse, even going so far as to "invent" a NDA and phonecalls from AEW lawyers when he gets too close, just to make himself look important? That´s far fetched..


of course he would

he's a carny mate - they're all carnies

when will you guys learn than the 'work' does not stop when the bell rings at the end of the match?

working the in-between times is the biggest work of all / kayfabe reborn in a way


----------



## RapShepard

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I see no reason for them to be under a mil, but again, the true test to me will be the show next week because that will be an accurate representation of who tunes in for AEW and not just the hot match of the month.*


We're getting and have been getting their accurate numbers the entire time. As long as I've seen wrestling ratings number talked AEW and NXT are the only ones that seem to get this accepted excuse of competition exists. All wrestling is going up against much more popular much more mainstream things. Do they perform or not. So far Dynamite, SmackDown, and Raw tend to consistently be top tier level shows on their nights according to demo. So no need to do the

"Well this doesn't count because news competition, or wrestling competition, or Arbor Day competition" 



The Wood said:


> Yes, this. There is always something on. You have to be viable in that marketplace. AEW doesn’t impress me, but for the moment it is viable. But this idea that people really want to watch it, and really would, but, but, but...just needs to go away.
> 
> Especially since things like the news have basically been confirmed to not to the factor on Dynamite people try to use it as.
> 
> *More people watching the news does not mean fewer people watching wrestling.*
> 
> Yes, the news will affect the bullshit placement of AEW in a list of popularity this week. But let’s not pretend there is _any_ evidence that people are sitting around saying “Man, I really wish I could watch AEW right now, but that President’s speech is on, so I’m going to have to give that wrestling show I am hooked on a miss,” haha.
> 
> They’re different crowds. The people tuning in to Biden are probably people who were sitting around doing a puzzle on Wednesday night. This just isn’t necessarily the same pool of people that these excuses are pulling from.


I more so don't like it because it basically tries to penalize the other show for getting more viewers lol. Like well no shit Dynamite would get more viewers, would if nothing bad ever happened to make news and no other popular shows or sporting events existed. But that's not the TV landscape.


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> of course he would
> 
> he's a carny mate - they're all carnies
> 
> when will you guys learn than the 'work' does not stop when the bell rings at the end of the match?
> 
> working the in-between times is the biggest work of all / kayfabe reborn in a way


Come on, you don´t really believe that?
The effort it would take to uphold such a ruse makes it seem impossible. not to mention (like @BOSS of Bel-Air correctly mentioned), Nobody in AEW has tried to deny it, and neither has Meltzer.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

RapShepard said:


> Even if they had 300k Mexican fans, all the excuses have to stop. Something else is always on TV and life happens. At some point these 2 things have to stop being used as a safety net. Especially since they generally do good numbers anyway.


Who needs a safety net? It's nothing personal to me if they hit 1 million or hit 1.5. I'm just looking at things that will probably effect the number and why. State of the Union cut into the 50+ demo deeply because they pay more attention to that kind of stuff, and a big night for partying is going to cut into their younger demographic. That's called being realistic.


----------



## RapShepard

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Young people, Mexican or not take it as an excuse to go out and party.
> 
> I'm psyched for the show but some people have other priorities. It's gonna hit The Challenge harder since the MTV crowd is prime age group and and the type of people that go out and party. AEW is still gonna do well for the night overall.


This is an excuse, young people also like to have Netflix and Chill for booty calls. Should we start setting aside the excuse that maybe Dynamite is down a certain week because Netflix dropped a new show and it was time to binge and fuck


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

yeahright2 said:


> Still deflecting. The only one derailing this thread is you.
> 
> Do you deny AEW tried to sign Cornette?





VIP86 said:


> May 5th - Cinco de Mayo


I still think they're gonna do over a million and be second or possibly even number 1 for the night depending on who is playing with the NBA and if it's an important game.


----------



## RapShepard

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Who needs a safety net? It's nothing personal to me if they hit 1 million or hit 1.5. I'm just looking at things that will probably effect the number and why. State of the Union cut into the 50+ demo deeply because they pay more attention to that kind of stuff, and a big night for partying is going to cut into their younger demographic. That's called being realistic.


But the thing is people only do it one sidedly. When the ratings are slightly disappointing some folk look for a reason wise thats an external issue. Oh this happened in life or that happened in life. But when ratings are up, then the only reason is because the show is a great quality show. Why can't the show sometimes be down because it's been disappointing. Or why can't the show be up, because it caught a break where externally nothing major like sports, news, or a wildly popular show was running that week.

That's why I view it as an excuse, because other TV competition and life happening only come up when AEW fans are disappointed in a rating. It's never quality of the shows or shows around it, that get blame. It's always heavily about other things outside of their control.


----------



## Outlaw91

yeahright2 said:


> I know you´re not going to accept Cornette as a source, and obviously AEW doesn´t want to admit it.
> 
> But there´s a drivethrough (or experience, can´t remember which) where he gets as close to how it unfolded as he can vithout violating an NDA, and a later drivethrough (again, or Experience) where they talk about how AEW lawyers called him and informed him that he couldn´t say anything about AEW wanting to sign Goldberg.


LOL You are continuously asking a guy a question that no one here could really answer. Just because you blindly trust Cornette it doesn't mean that everybody has to.


----------



## VIP86

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> I still think they're gonna do over a million and be second or possibly even number 1 for the night depending on who is playing with the NBA and if it's an important game.


I already predicted 1.4 million
But Still would be funny if Cinco de Mayo excuse comes up


----------



## DammitChrist

NathanMayberry said:


> Here is a summary of this place since the start of the year...
> 
> 1/6 - The attempt at a Domestic Coup just ruined the ratings for what was otherwise a PPV quality show!
> 
> 1/13 - With an Impeachment following an Insurrection, plus the Inauguration next week, January can't be reflective of anything ratings-wise!
> 
> 1/20 - Inauguration was going to dominate the ratings this week, we went over this.
> 
> 1/27 - The TNT feed went down for 15 minutes on some cable services, of course that was going to affect the quarter hours and make Dynamite's rating look bad!
> 
> 2/3 - LOL EDGE ISN'T A DRAW, PLUS THE FORBIDDEN DOOR IS NOW WIDE OPEN
> 
> 2/10 - The Impeachment destroyed everything, why does all the news have to happen on Wednesdays?!
> 
> 2/17 - Now that the news has finally cleared out, AEW can finally move on up!
> 
> 2/24 - ALRIGHT, BROKE 800K, NOW WE'RE TRENDING UPWARD AGAIN!
> 
> 3/3 - WOO WE GOT THAT SHAQ RUB FOR 900K+, AND RIGHT BEFORE A BIG PPV TO BOOT. 1 MILLION, HERE WE COME!
> 
> 3/10 - Of course South Park's Vaccination Special is going to draw! No, the sparklers on Sunday had nothing to do with it, why do you ask?
> 
> 3/17 - Everyone was partying because it was St. Patrick's day, you guys!
> 
> 3/24 - (Tbh, I got nothing for this one. There weren't even any March Madness games on. The thread is mostly about Omega not being a draw and the Forbidden Door being a bust)
> 
> 3/31 - You guys, the ending to Revolution is proving to be more damaging than we realized.
> 
> 4/7 - It was supposed to be a terrible number, the other guys were running a Takeover during WM weekend!
> 
> 4/14 - WE GOT A MILLION UNOPPOSED, WE KNEW THAT NXT WAS THE PROBLEM ALL ALONG!
> 
> 4/21 - LOST VIEWERS BUT STILL GOT OVER A MILLION SUCK IT LOSERS
> 
> 4/28 - Biden's address affected everybody


Yea, this petty review/“analysis” here won’t do you any favors.


----------



## yeahright2

Outlaw91 said:


> LOL You are continuously asking a guy a question that no one here could really answer. Just because you blindly trust Cornette it doesn't mean that everybody has to.


? I´m not asking you. And with what you quoted I replied to @LifeInCattleClass, so why do you feel you have to butt in and say stuff that´s untrue? I don´t blindly trust Cornette (or anybody that isn´t myself).
..But I guess that´s what a Cornette hater like you would say.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> Come on, you don´t really believe that?
> The effort it would take to uphold such a ruse makes it seem impossible. not to mention (like @BOSS of Bel-Air correctly mentioned), Nobody in AEW has tried to deny it, and neither has Meltzer.


of course i believe it

i don’t trust any of these guys’ word - and why would AEW say anything either / or - he doesn’t work for them, there is no need to comment

is there an article or interview where they were asked and they declined to comment? no

besides, what would it even matter? We can judge with our own eyes - currently the elite is in aew, we all know they would not work with jim and jim would not work with them

so.... what is the most likely scenario? Aew was started with the elite, therefore jim was very likely never contacted based on the above

and even if he was, it still doesn’t matter - he is not there now anyway? What is even the point that everybody was trying to make?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ps> i value half this board‘s opinions as fans more than i would ever do Dave or Cornette

just as an FYI

they are both sides of the same coin - which is what makes it really funny


----------



## DammitChrist

RapShepard said:


> This is an excuse, young people also like to have Netflix and Chill for booty calls. Should we start setting aside the excuse that maybe Dynamite is down a certain week because Netflix dropped a new show and it was time to binge and fuck


Nope, it’s a good reason that can explain the slight possibility of a weird rating (for whatever reason). If anything, safety nets need to keep getting established here so that one side doesn’t freak out by going all doom-and-gloom just because they get either 800 K viewers or 900 K viewers (even though those numbers would’ve been celebrated 2 months ago).


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pps> why the fuck is there again 50 fucking conversations going on about fucking limp dick fucking Cornette?

isn’t there a thread for all his bullshit anyway?


----------



## VIP86

can't believe i have the highest prediction
i'm surprised that people are very cautious with their prediction this week
even the hardcore fans
2 weeks ago some people used to say that B&G could come close to RAW


----------



## Outlaw91

yeahright2 said:


> ? I´m not asking you. And with what you quoted I replied to @LifeInCattleClass, so why do you feel you have to butt in and say stuff that´s untrue? I don´t blindly trust Cornette (or anybody that isn´t myself).
> ..But I guess that´s what a Cornette hater like you would say.


Because there is no evidence and yet you keep asking the same question.
This is a forum and if you don't want to discuss with me you can always choose to ignore me.

Edit:
I'm not a Cornette hater, I'm just using constructive criticism.


----------



## DammitChrist

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Pps> why the fuck is there again 50 fucking conversations going on about fucking limp dick fucking Cornette?
> 
> isn’t there a thread for all his bullshit anyway?


In all fairness, he has rabid followers that get easily defensive over any bad word to his name; which explains those (excessive) 50 conversations here.

Edit:

That section was a mistake in hindsight


----------



## Bravesfan3

*President Biden's speech had zero effect folks anyone who says otherwise is gaslighting you and lying or straight up trolling.*

Biden's speech isn't an excuse since it started an hour after, in hour 2, and the *first hour of AEW got average viewership of 889,250 viewers.*

Q1: Adam Page vs. Brian Cage/The Elite promo – 803,000 viewers, 403,000 in 18-49
Q2: The Young Bucks vs. Mike & Matt Sydal/SCU promo – 874,000 viewers (up 71,000), 427,000 in 18-49 (up 24,000)
Q3: Jade Cargill promo/Orange Cassidy vs. Penta El Zero M – 898,000 viewers (up 24,000), 421,000 in 18-49 (down 6,000)
Q4: End of Cassidy vs. Penta/Britt Baker promo/Inner Circle & Pinnacle parley – 982,000 viewers (up 84,000), 449,000 in 18-49 (up 28,000)

(982,000 + 898,000 + 874,000 + 803,000) ÷ 4 = *889,250 viewers.

889,250 UNOPPOSED viewers* which is the same as the entire 2 hour rating, meaning that Joe Biden not only didn't have any effect but AEW viewers are now Proven to not skip the show for political speech. those Biden viewers therefore are not the same as the AEW viewership.

So I was correct in my assessment last week:



Bravesfan3 said:


> So,
> 
> AEW Dynamite:* April 14, 2021 - 1.219 million viewers* - First AEW show unopposed which is basically a re-debut.
> *April 21, 2021 - 1.104 million viewers* - 2nd week AEW unopposed by NXT
> 
> Basically what happened when they debuted in 2019 is happening again.
> 
> *October 2, 2019 - 1.409 million viewers* due to initial interest from new viewers upon debut
> *October 9, 2019 - 1,140 million viewers* due to rejection of horrible product by initial interest group week prior
> 
> Now only 4 weeks later on October 30, 2019 AEW Dynamite got 759,000 viewers, 650,000 viewers less than their debut. they lost HALF their audience in less than a month. if you got excited about that initial number and thought they would grow, you were very wrong, this is why you don't jump the gun, Russo said it takes months to see if what you're doing is working.
> 
> So analyze data:
> 
> *April 14, 2021 - 1.219 million viewers* - First AEW show unopposed which is basically a re-debut.
> *April 21, 2021 - 1.104 million viewers* - 2nd week AEW unopposed by NXT
> 
> Show got initial interest on Oct 2, 2019 from new viewers due to it debut in 2019 then declined.
> Show gets initial interest on April 14, 2021 from NXT viewers who wouldn't watch AEW due to lack of NXT opposition then starts to decline.
> 
> This is why you have to analyze the data before you get excited about a ratings bump.
> 
> Now over the next few weeks the show will fluctuate like it did in late 2019/early 2020, so don't jump the gun, if the show does not improve, the ratings will continue to decline as they have been consistently since it's debut.


So AEW is indeed falling the same way they did at the start. NXT viewers checked out AEW for first time since it was unopposed by NXT for first time, and they checked out, AEW and Tony Khan failed to hook the viewers.

*October 2, 2019 - 1.409 million viewers* due to initial interest from new viewers upon debut
*October 9, 2019 - 1,140 million viewers* due to rejection of horrible product by initial interest group week prior

Now only 4 weeks later on* October 30, 2019 AEW Dynamite got 759,000 viewers*, 650,000 viewers less than their debut. they lost HALF their audience in less than a month. if you got excited about that initial number and thought they would grow, you were very wrong, this is why you don't jump the gun, Russo said it takes months to see if what you're doing is working.


*April 14, 2021 - 1.219 million viewers* - First AEW show unopposed which is basically a re-debut.
*April 21, 2021 - 1.104 million viewers* - 2nd week AEW unopposed by NXT
*April 28, 2021* - *889,000* *viewers - 3rd week AEW unopposed by NXT.

That means in only 3 weeks they lost 329,750 viewers. 

They basically lost every single viewer gained from NXT move, and are right back to AEW vs NXT numbers... Despite being Unopposed now.

AEW is in huge trouble. Tony Khan needs to stop writing, he's not a television writer. hire a wrestling writer with proven numbers or a highly successful TV writer.*


Tony Khan should also stop attacking his own customers and potential customers, it exposes him:


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> This is an excuse, young people also like to have Netflix and Chill for booty calls. Should we start setting aside the excuse that maybe Dynamite is down a certain week because Netflix dropped a new show and it was time to binge and fuck [emoji2379]


*Next excuse will be Ramadan 🤦*


----------



## DammitChrist

Bravesfan3 said:


> *President Biden's speech had zero effect folks anyone who says otherwise is gaslighting you and lying or straight up trolling.*
> 
> Biden's speech isn't an excuse since it started an hour after, in hour 2, and the *first hour of AEW got average viewership of 889,250 viewers.*
> 
> Q1: Adam Page vs. Brian Cage/The Elite promo – 803,000 viewers, 403,000 in 18-49
> Q2: The Young Bucks vs. Mike & Matt Sydal/SCU promo – 874,000 viewers (up 71,000), 427,000 in 18-49 (up 24,000)
> Q3: Jade Cargill promo/Orange Cassidy vs. Penta El Zero M – 898,000 viewers (up 24,000), 421,000 in 18-49 (down 6,000)
> Q4: End of Cassidy vs. Penta/Britt Baker promo/Inner Circle & Pinnacle parley – 982,000 viewers (up 84,000), 449,000 in 18-49 (up 28,000)
> 
> (982,000 + 898,000 + 874,000 + 803,000) ÷ 4 = *889,250 viewers.
> 
> 889,250 UNOPPOSED viewers* which is the same as the entire 2 hour rating, meaning that Joe Biden not only didn't have any effect but AEW viewers are now Proven to not skip the show for political speech. those Biden viewers therefore are not the same as the AEW viewership.
> 
> So I was correct in my assessment last week:
> 
> 
> 
> So AEW is indeed falling the same way they did at the start. NXT viewers checked out AEW for first time since it was unopposed by NXT for first time, and they checked out, AEW and Tony Khan failed to hook the viewers.
> 
> *October 2, 2019 - 1.409 million viewers* due to initial interest from new viewers upon debut
> *October 9, 2019 - 1,140 million viewers* due to rejection of horrible product by initial interest group week prior
> 
> Now only 4 weeks later on* October 30, 2019 AEW Dynamite got 759,000 viewers*, 650,000 viewers less than their debut. they lost HALF their audience in less than a month. if you got excited about that initial number and thought they would grow, you were very wrong, this is why you don't jump the gun, Russo said it takes months to see if what you're doing is working.
> 
> 
> *April 14, 2021 - 1.219 million viewers* - First AEW show unopposed which is basically a re-debut.
> *April 21, 2021 - 1.104 million viewers* - 2nd week AEW unopposed by NXT
> *April 28, 2021* - *889,000* *viewers - 3rd week AEW unopposed by NXT.
> 
> That means in only 3 weeks they lost 329,750 viewers.
> 
> They basically lost every single viewer gained from NXT move, and are right back to AEW vs NXT numbers... Despite being Unopposed now.
> 
> AEW is in huge trouble. Tony Khan needs to stop writing, he's not a television writer. hire a wrestling writer with proven numbers or a highly successful TV writer.*
> 
> 
> Tony Khan should also stop attacking his own customers and potential customers, it exposes him:


Let’s not make false assumptions based on optimistic viewpoints.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

RapShepard said:


> But the thing is people only do it one sidedly. When the ratings are slightly disappointing some folk look for a reason wise thats an external issue. Oh this happened in life or that happened in life. But when ratings are up, then the only reason is because the show is a great quality show. Why can't the show sometimes be down because it's been disappointing. Or why can't the show be up, because it caught a break where externally nothing major like sports, news, or a wildly popular show was running that week.
> 
> That's why I view it as an excuse, because other TV competition and life happening only come up when AEW fans are disappointed in a rating. It's never quality of the shows or shows around it, that get blame. It's always heavily about other things outside of their control.


I dunno, I guess for some people it's like a personal loss or something. It's also a lot easier to point to fairly concrete events as effecting ratings, like the Capitol riots, an impeachment, an election, or the finals of a major show that's competing for eyeballs, as opposed to things that are more subjective and fluid like booking decisions. 

Some people might think a show sucked, some people might love it, that's something that is subjective and is a lot harder to actually quantify and draw conclusions from. Generally unless you've got something like The Fingerpoke of Doom and Mick Foley putting butts in seats, a weaker card one week isn't going to cause massive shifts in numbers. If we want to discuss booking decisions in terms of effecting viewership numbers, then you have to start looking at long term trends and averages, not individual weekly numbers. 

As for why nobody does this kind of stuff with RAW or Smackdown, it's pretty simple, they're clearly in the lead. People like competition and Raw and Smackdown right now are like Michael Schumacher in an F1 race -- they're miles ahead of everyone and are clearly going to win, so the focus of the race turns to the dudes jockeying for 2nd and 3rd. 

I was kinda shocked by the rating last week cuz it was such a sharp drop, but then again just looking at the ratings and everything got squashed by the State of the Union, well that kind of makes sense, especially considering the biggest jump in overall viewership that pushed them to 1.2 was from 50+ and they're more likely to pay attention to big news events. 

I still think they're going to do over a million but, I'm also being realistic about the fact that some people are gonna take Cinco di Mayo to go out and get loaded on tequila, but that'll likely be offset by 50+ viewers who don't care to party.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Next excuse will be Ramadan 🤦*


Do young people like to go out and party with friends on Ramadan?


----------



## Outlaw91

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Do young people like to go out and party with friends on Ramadan?


If Cornette does, others may too.


----------



## Bravesfan3

DammitChrist said:


> Let’s not make false assumptions based on optimistic viewpoints.


After that data analysis, all you could respond to with is one sentence.

You outright ignored the ratings.

Let me simplify it for you.

AEW got *889,000 viewers* *unopposed by/ PRIOR to* President Joe Biden speech in first hour.

AEW got *888,000 viewers* In hour 2 *DURING* President Joe Biden speech.

President Joe Biden's speech had *ZERO effect* on AEW ratings.

Go find another excuse for the declining ratings, Biden and NXT are out.

Truth is the ratings have declined since debut of show nearly 2 years ago because it objectively sucks. 

You may enjoy it but you're in a minority.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I drew all the Corny fans a nice cartoon / since it seems we have to talk about him all the time









Corny fans love the cartoons


So, i drew one - since they love being all over the AEW section - i’m sure they’ll love this one well.... until its taken down? Or will we have freedom of art? updating OP with my new one ;) you guys are an inspiration




www.wrestlingforum.com


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> Nope, it’s a good reason that can explain the slight possibility of a weird rating (for whatever reason). If anything, safety nets need to keep getting established here so that one side doesn’t freak out by going all doom-and-gloom just because they get either 800 K viewers or 900 K viewers (even though those numbers would’ve been celebrated 2 months ago).


No, it's excuses brought about by those who can't ever just say AEW did a bad rating and move on. And by your logic we should set up equal excuse safety nets so folk don't get too excited when an episode performs well. Because surely there's an external factor for that.


----------



## RapShepard

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Next excuse will be Ramadan [emoji1751]*


Basically lol, it's always something external if they do a below usual rating. But always their internal awesomeness if they do above average numbers


----------



## Bravesfan3

A simple question to ask @DammitChrist is this,

How did Joe Biden's speech affect ratings when they drew the exact same number in hour prior to speech?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Bravesfan3 said:


> A simple question to ask @DammitChrist is this,
> 
> How did Joe Biden's speech affect ratings when they drew the exact same number in hour prior to speech?


so do you think this wed will draw similar to 800k then?


----------



## DammitChrist

Bravesfan3 said:


> After that data analysis, all you could respond to with is one sentence.
> 
> You outright ignored the ratings.
> 
> Let me simplify it for you.
> 
> AEW got *889,000 viewers* *unopposed by/ PRIOR to* President Joe Biden speech in first hour.
> 
> AEW got *888,000 viewers* In hour 2 *DURING* President Joe Biden speech.
> 
> President Joe Biden's speech had *ZERO effect* on AEW ratings.
> 
> Go find another excuse for the declining ratings, Biden and NXT are out.
> 
> Truth is the ratings have declined since debut of show nearly 2 years ago because it objectively sucks.
> 
> You may enjoy it but you're in a minority.


It’s pretty sad that you pretty much spend all of your time being obsessed with statistics while also being bold enough to selectively choose certain numbers in order to twist your false narratives because you’re too upset over the fact that there are a lot of wrestling fans who actually enjoy a good product that provides for a fun alternative.


----------



## RapShepard

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> I dunno, I guess for some people it's like a personal loss or something. It's also a lot easier to point to fairly concrete events as effecting ratings, like the Capitol riots, an impeachment, an election, or the finals of a major show that's competing for eyeballs, as opposed to things that are more subjective and fluid like booking decisions.
> 
> Some people might think a show sucked, some people might love it, that's something that is subjective and is a lot harder to actually quantify and draw conclusions from. Generally unless you've got something like The Fingerpoke of Doom and Mick Foley putting butts in seats, a weaker card one week isn't going to cause massive shifts in numbers. If we want to discuss booking decisions in terms of effecting viewership numbers, then you have to start looking at long term trends and averages, not individual weekly numbers.
> 
> As for why nobody does this kind of stuff with RAW or Smackdown, it's pretty simple, they're clearly in the lead. People like competition and Raw and Smackdown right now are like Michael Schumacher in an F1 race -- they're miles ahead of everyone and are clearly going to win, so the focus of the race turns to the dudes jockeying for 2nd and 3rd.
> 
> I was kinda shocked by the rating last week cuz it was such a sharp drop, but then again just looking at the ratings and everything got squashed by the State of the Union, well that kind of makes sense, especially considering the biggest jump in overall viewership that pushed them to 1.2 was from 50+ and they're more likely to pay attention to big news events.
> 
> I still think they're going to do over a million but, I'm also being realistic about the fact that some people are gonna take Cinco di Mayo to go out and get loaded on tequila, but that'll likely be offset by 50+ viewers who don't care to party.


The thing though it's just shit happens you got to roll with the punches and a lot of things they can book around. Show finals and sports playoffs are things we know ahead of time. If you know a big playoff game is happening, you book accordingly to make folk feel they need to see you. It's no different than how they already do special episodes themselves. Instead of using them randomly, why not use them for special events against big finales and such.


----------



## Outlaw91

I'm waiting for the next few weeks ratings to be out so I can decide if I want to watch Dynamite anymore.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

The Wood said:


> Yes, this. There is always something on. You have to be viable in that marketplace. AEW doesn’t impress me, but for the moment it is viable. But this idea that people really want to watch it, and really would, but, but, but...just needs to go away.
> 
> Especially since things like the news have basically been confirmed to not to the factor on Dynamite people try to use it as.
> 
> *More people watching the news does not mean fewer people watching wrestling.*
> 
> Yes, the news will affect the bullshit placement of AEW in a list of popularity this week. But let’s not pretend there is _any_ evidence that people are sitting around saying “Man, I really wish I could watch AEW right now, but that President’s speech is on, so I’m going to have to give that wrestling show I am hooked on a miss,” haha.
> 
> They’re different crowds. The people tuning in to Biden are probably people who were sitting around doing a puzzle on Wednesday night. This just isn’t necessarily the same pool of people that these excuses are pulling from.





Bravesfan3 said:


> After that data analysis, all you could respond to with is one sentence.
> 
> You outright ignored the ratings.
> 
> Let me simplify it for you.
> 
> AEW got *889,000 viewers* *unopposed by/ PRIOR to* President Joe Biden speech in first hour.
> 
> AEW got *888,000 viewers* In hour 2 *DURING* President Joe Biden speech.
> 
> President Joe Biden's speech had *ZERO effect* on AEW ratings.
> 
> Go find another excuse for the declining ratings, Biden and NXT are out.
> 
> Truth is the ratings have declined since debut of show nearly 2 years ago because it objectively sucks.
> 
> You may enjoy it but you're in a minority.


A lot of people tune in early for big speeches like this to hear their pundit of choice's predictions. 

As sad as it may be, politics in America is one of the biggest spectator sports going and people almost "pre-game" for big events to speculate on what they're gonna hear and what they want to hear. People tuned in to hear the "leader of the free world" cut a promo on Putin, China and Covid.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> so do you think this wed will draw similar to 800k then?


If Biden is blamed for last week's and that rating is essentially discounted. Should this week's rating be discounted because Blood and Guts?


----------



## Bravesfan3

DammitChrist said:


> It’s pretty sad that you pretty much *spend all of your time being obsessed with statistics* while also being bold enough to selectively choose certain numbers in order to twist your false narratives because *you’re too upset over* the fact that there are a lot of wrestling fans who actually enjoy a good product that provides for a fun alternative.













No need for ad hominem attacks on me, I didn't personally attack you. you're in this thread more than I have been, so who's obsessed? Nor am I upset about anything, if numbers do well then great. If anything why would I be upset that they got low 889,000 viewers?

That makes no sense, I should be happy, but I'm not, I don't want AEW to fail, that's not good for wrestling.

Perhaps you're projecting because you seem pretty upset at my unbiased analytics.



DammitChrist said:


> there *are a lot of wrestling fans* who actually enjoy a good product that provides for a fun alternative.



889,000 viewers isn't a lot of people, nor do we know if the entirety of that very small viewership even enjoys watching it.(I'm sure most of that niche does, but all? that's hyperbole)

There's no twisting, they got 889,250 viewers first hour prior to Biden Speech.

And 888,000 viewers during Biden Speech, it had no effect, unless you want to parade that Biden took 1,250 viewers from AEW.

You don't like the numbers it's not my problem, those are the concrete numbers so deal with it and deal with it better than the way you have, because it's immature.


----------



## Bravesfan3

LifeInCattleClass said:


> so do you think this wed will draw similar to 800k then?


No, I think it will fluctuate a bit but overall keep dropping like it did during the initial October-November 2019 drop.

Probably over a million, then similar decline since debut continues.




BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> A lot of people tune in early for big speeches like this to hear their pundit of choice's predictions.
> 
> As sad as it may be, politics in America is one of the biggest spectator sports going and people almost "pre-game" for big events to speculate on what they're gonna hear and what they want to hear. People tuned in to hear the "leader of the free world" cut a promo on Putin, China and Covid.


AEW only did 1,250 viewers less when Biden speech started... it has no effect.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

RapShepard said:


> If Biden is blamed for last week's and that rating is essentially discounted. Should this week's rating be discounted because Blood and Guts?


Anybody reasonable isn't just completely throwing out last weeks number, but by that same logic people saying Biden had no effect aren't being reasonable. 

Conclusions you might draw from last weeks number would be that they have trouble retaining more casual viewers who prior to NXT moving to Tuesdays were content to watch AEW on DVR -- if there is something those people perceive to be more important they're more likely to just DVR the show and watch it on Thursday.

If you look at their DVR +7 numbers on average they still end up getting around the same 1.2-1.4 million viewers every week, just not necessarily the day of which is what we see on those ratings charts.


----------



## Bravesfan3

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> but by that same logic people saying Biden had no effect aren't being reasonable.


889,250 - Pre Biden
888,000 - During Biden/Biden Effect.

It really isn't reasonable whatsoever to say he had an effect, it's grasping at straws at this point.

AEW did lower numbers and it's not Biden's fault, they did lower numbers without Biden opposition in first hour.

Just accept it and demand AEW do better.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Bravesfan3 said:


> No, I think it will fluctuate a bit but overall keep dropping like it did during the initial October-November 2019 drop.
> 
> Probably over a million, then similar decline since debut continues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW only did 1,250 viewers less when Biden speech started... it has no effect.


so where do you think it’ll end up at on average

back to 800k - 850k average for a quarter?


----------



## RapShepard

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Anybody reasonable isn't just completely throwing out last weeks number, but by that same logic people saying Biden had no effect aren't being reasonable.
> 
> Conclusions you might draw from last weeks number would be that they have trouble retaining more casual viewers who prior to NXT moving to Tuesdays were content to watch AEW on DVR -- if there is something those people perceive to be more important they're more likely to just DVR the show and watch it on Thursday.
> 
> If you look at their DVR +7 numbers on average they still end up getting around the same 1.2-1.4 million viewers every week, just not necessarily the day of which is what we see on those ratings charts.


This is another thing when did we start including DVR +7 it's like so many things going to prop it up. 

Like I say every week they're top 5 to 10 every week. That's stellar, no need for all the other things. Literally everything affects the ratings, so ignore it just focus on the rating. How did they handle the cards they were dealt. Biden dominated the top 20, but they made the top 25 cool. There's no sports going on, national news, or big reality show so they're #1 also cool.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Bravesfan3 said:


> *President Biden's speech had zero effect folks anyone who says otherwise is gaslighting you and lying or straight up trolling.*
> 
> Biden's speech isn't an excuse since it started an hour after, in hour 2, and the *first hour of AEW got average viewership of 889,250 viewers.*
> 
> Q1: Adam Page vs. Brian Cage/The Elite promo – 803,000 viewers, 403,000 in 18-49
> Q2: The Young Bucks vs. Mike & Matt Sydal/SCU promo – 874,000 viewers (up 71,000), 427,000 in 18-49 (up 24,000)
> Q3: Jade Cargill promo/Orange Cassidy vs. Penta El Zero M – 898,000 viewers (up 24,000), 421,000 in 18-49 (down 6,000)
> Q4: End of Cassidy vs. Penta/Britt Baker promo/Inner Circle & Pinnacle parley – 982,000 viewers (up 84,000), 449,000 in 18-49 (up 28,000)
> 
> (982,000 + 898,000 + 874,000 + 803,000) ÷ 4 = *889,250 viewers.
> 
> 889,250 UNOPPOSED viewers* which is the same as the entire 2 hour rating, meaning that Joe Biden not only didn't have any effect but AEW viewers are now Proven to not skip the show for political speech. those Biden viewers therefore are not the same as the AEW viewership.
> 
> So I was correct in my assessment last week:
> 
> 
> 
> So AEW is indeed falling the same way they did at the start. NXT viewers checked out AEW for first time since it was unopposed by NXT for first time, and they checked out, AEW and Tony Khan failed to hook the viewers.
> 
> *October 2, 2019 - 1.409 million viewers* due to initial interest from new viewers upon debut
> *October 9, 2019 - 1,140 million viewers* due to rejection of horrible product by initial interest group week prior
> 
> Now only 4 weeks later on* October 30, 2019 AEW Dynamite got 759,000 viewers*, 650,000 viewers less than their debut. they lost HALF their audience in less than a month. if you got excited about that initial number and thought they would grow, you were very wrong, this is why you don't jump the gun, Russo said it takes months to see if what you're doing is working.
> 
> 
> *April 14, 2021 - 1.219 million viewers* - First AEW show unopposed which is basically a re-debut.
> *April 21, 2021 - 1.104 million viewers* - 2nd week AEW unopposed by NXT
> *April 28, 2021* - *889,000* *viewers - 3rd week AEW unopposed by NXT.
> 
> That means in only 3 weeks they lost 329,750 viewers.
> 
> They basically lost every single viewer gained from NXT move, and are right back to AEW vs NXT numbers... Despite being Unopposed now.
> 
> AEW is in huge trouble. Tony Khan needs to stop writing, he's not a television writer. hire a wrestling writer with proven numbers or a highly successful TV writer.*
> 
> 
> Tony Khan should also stop attacking his own customers and potential customers, it exposes him:


Look at the homophobic and racist scumbag that makes her money making videos trashing AEW using their content and don't wanna get copyrighted lol


----------



## Bravesfan3

LifeInCattleClass said:


> so where do you think it’ll end up at on average
> 
> back to 800k - 850k average for a quarter?


I think they'll go back to 1 million.

After DON, they'll go back to current numbers, which are Wednesday war numbers, which they'll be on same trajectory of ratings during war.

So 800k-900k for now, then end of summer and beyond 600k-700k.

Sports returns during autumn and they'll do 400k-600k average.

Based on nonstop ratings decline from October 2019.

Unless of course they hire a good writer.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> This is another thing when did we start including DVR +7 it's like so many things going to prop it up.
> 
> Like I say every week they're top 5 to 10 every week. That's stellar, no need for all the other things. Literally everything affects the ratings, so ignore it just focus on the rating. How did they handle the cards they were dealt. Biden dominated the top 20, but they made the top 25 cool. There's no sports going on, national news, or big reality show so they're #1 also cool.


*DVR is used whenever it's convenient. I pointed out Britt and Rosa had the highest DVR number to the "women can't draw" crowd and some people had 1,000 excuses for it.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Bravesfan3 said:


> I think they'll go back to 1 million.
> 
> After DON, they'll go back to current numbers, which are Wednesday war numbers, which they'll be on same trajectory of ratings during war.
> 
> So 800k-900k for now, then end of summer and beyond 600k-700k.
> 
> Sports returns during autumn and they'll do 400k-600k average.
> 
> Based on nonstop ratings decline from October 2019.
> 
> Unless of course they hire a good writer.


i mean.... they never had any indication of hitting 400k

will be interesting to see if you’re right

i doubt it - but luckily time will tell


----------



## DammitChrist

'Excuses' is such an overused term at this point.


----------



## RapShepard

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *DVR is used whenever it's convenient. I pointed out Britt and Rosa had the highest DVR number to the "women can't draw" crowd and some people had 1,000 excuses for it.*


I mean I don't get it period lol. It seems like with AEW ratings are suddenly discussed differently to make it appear more favorable. 

Pre AEW ratings discussions were about viewership

Post AEW now it's about the key demos, but also you have to think about +3 and +7 DVR, and also don't forget a shit ton of people watch it illegally so that's another few 100k or few million that are totally there. 

It's just for me they're doing well. Why are we pulling out ESPN style stats and excuse it to prove points positive or negative.


----------



## Bravesfan3

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *DVR is used whenever it's convenient. I pointed out Britt and Rosa had the highest DVR number to the "women can't draw" crowd and some people had 1,000 excuses for it.*


Neither men or women can draw today, so what does it matter?

No guy has drawn since early/mid 2010's and prior.

No woman has drawn since early 2000's and prior.


----------



## Bravesfan3

DammitChrist said:


> 'Excuses' is such an overused term at this point.


False justification then, since you say excuses is an overused term.


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> 'Excuses' is such an overused term at this point.


Nah, it's a reasonable term to describe the deflection that happens when certain fans feel AEW's rating wasn't up to snuff [emoji6]


----------



## El Hammerstone

RapShepard said:


> Nah, it's a reasonable term to describe the deflection that happens when certain fans feel AEW's rating wasn't up to snuff [emoji6]


tbh


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> I mean I don't get it period lol. It seems like with AEW ratings are suddenly discussed differently to make it appear more favorable.
> 
> Pre AEW ratings discussions were about viewership
> 
> Post AEW now it's about the key demos, but also you have to think about +3 and +7 DVR, and also don't forget a shit ton of people watch it illegally so that's another few 100k or few million that are totally there.
> 
> It's just for me they're doing well. Why are we pulling out ESPN style stats and excuse it to prove points positive or negative.


*Yeah, the hoops they jump through are ridiculous, but they have no problem ignoring the many variables for an abnormally positive rating.*


----------



## Dr. Middy

Bravesfan3 said:


> I think they'll go back to 1 million.
> 
> After DON, they'll go back to current numbers, which are Wednesday war numbers, which they'll be on same trajectory of ratings during war.
> 
> So 800k-900k for now, then end of summer and beyond 600k-700k.
> 
> Sports returns during autumn and they'll do 400k-600k average.
> 
> Based on nonstop ratings decline from October 2019.
> 
> Unless of course they hire a good writer.


You have no evidence to claim that they would randomly decline in 6 months by 500k+ viewers, even if they don't increase viewership at all. This is just overly negative doom-level predictions. 

If they decline which is entirely possible, it would probably be to around 700-800k and would probably stabilize, they have a very dedicated core fanbase, which you wrote entirely about with that Biden post.


----------



## DammitChrist

RapShepard said:


> Nah, it's a reasonable term to describe the deflection that happens when certain fans feel AEW's rating wasn't up to snuff [emoji6]


That was pretty cute. I'll give you 2 points for that one 



Spoiler: spoiler



tbh :lol


----------



## ripcitydisciple

RapShepard said:


> Even if they had 300k Mexican fans, all the excuses have to stop. Something else is always on TV and life happens. At some point these 2 things have to stop being used as a safety net. Especially since they generally do good numbers anyway.


Why do you fucking care?? Who cares what someone's reason is for why the ratings are what they are? Why do you get so bent out of shape?

This is such an irritation to me that I have to respond. What about you're day to day that is affected or ruined when someone who, as you say 'make excuses' about a rating for a wrestling show?


----------



## VIP86

Ramadan Excuse will not work at all
let me explain something to people who don't know much about Ramadan
in Ramadan, at the time of the day when Dynamite airs (8pm)
the vast majority of families like to sit together and watch TV
because after a long day of fasting (which ends at sunset), who wants to go out after all the heavy meals and desserts
people who go out in Ramadan, like to do it late at night
because you're supposed to eat one more time before dawn
so staying awake until a very late hour is a normal thing in Ramadan
so if Ramadan were to affect the rating of Dynamite
it should actually increase the ratings with all the family gatherings watching TV

so yeah, here's another Excuse out the window


----------



## Bravesfan3

ripcitydisciple said:


> This is such an irritation to me that I have to respond. What about you're day to day that is affected or ruined when someone who, as you say 'make excuses' about a rating for a wrestling show?


Painting a false narrative and making it seem out of the company's control.

That's why this very thread exists, to discuss ratings and counter false claims.

The Biden excuse was prevalent this week until I disproved it.


----------



## RapShepard

ripcitydisciple said:


> Why do you fucking care?? Who cares what someone's reason is for why the ratings are what they are? Why do you get so bent out of shape?
> 
> This is such an irritation to me that I have to respond. What about you're day to day that is affected or ruined when someone who, as you say 'make excuses' about a rating for a wrestling show?


It tickles me that my inoffensive posts get you so consistently flustered lol. Saying Dynamite might do lesser numbers because of Cinco De Mayo is an excuse. That's just what it is. You can spin it how you want, but it's an excuse lol.


----------



## VIP86

Bravesfan3 said:


> The Biden excuse was prevalent this week until I disproved it.


dude, Shhh! let them bury their own arguments 
let them use The Biden excuse
because it would actually be more laughable
imagine 78 years old Zombie Joe Biden is more interesting for the fans than the show geared towards the "young Demo"


----------



## ripcitydisciple

RapShepard said:


> It tickles me that my inoffensive posts get you so consistently flustered lol. Saying Dynamite might do lesser numbers because of Cinco De Mayo is an excuse. That's just what it is. You can spin it how you want, but it's an excuse lol.


Why do you fucking care?


----------



## RapShepard

ripcitydisciple said:


> Why do you fucking care?


Do you know how forums work lol? People discuss and respond to shit. You do realize this, you do understand that's the point of forums right lol. To discuss things and respond to other people's posts. Similar to how you're responding to me through tears of anger, because I dare state my opinion as it is. The excuses from anytime AEW stans think they did a poor rating, are just as goofy and ridiculous as the negative nancy's that swear they're close to death. But no today's Cinco De Mayo pre excuse is dumb and deserves mocking, just like you deserve mocking for being overly emotional.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

RapShepard said:


> Do you know how forums work lol? People discuss and respond to shit. You do realize this, you do understand that's the point of forums right lol. To discuss things and respond to other people's posts. Similar to how you're responding to me through tears of anger, because I dare state my opinion as it is. The excuses from anytime AEW stans think they did a poor rating, are just as goofy and ridiculous as the negative nancy's that swear they're close to death. But no today's Cinco De Mayo pre excuse is dumb and deserves mocking, just like you deserve mocking for being overly emotional.


So it's not enough you trying to tell me or others how they should think now you are dictating what my emotions are at this time? Think whatever deluded justification you want to make yourself feel superior over people that don't make it reality. This whole imaginary 'tears of anger' you've conjured up to make you feel better about yourself is just that, imaginary.

Second, I wasn't only asking about Cinco de Mayo, I was asking about every time. Why do you fucking care?

Lastly, This isn't about you having an opinion, this is about you stating;

'If *I *think it was a bad show then _you_ should think it was a bad show'

'If *I* did not like a match then _you_ should not like the match'

'If *I* think a wrestler sucks then_ you_ should think the wrestler sucks too.

Just to be clear, this doesn't solely apply to you. Their are many others on this forum this fits.

Having an opinion does not mean that everyone who doesn't share you're view is then 'laughable and ridiculous' and subject to be mocked.

That's the major problem with you and the others. Y 'all trying to tell the rest of us we should like whatever you guys like and hate whatever you hate.

I think for myself. I don't need yours our anybody else's guidance.

I know there are others who would say the same.


----------



## RapShepard

ripcitydisciple said:


> So it's not enough you trying to tell me or others how they should think now you are dictating what my emotions are at this time? Think whatever deluded justification you want to make yourself feel superior over people that don't make it reality. This whole imaginary 'tears of anger' you've conjured up to make you feel better about yourself is just that imaginary.


No they're tears of anger. I've told nobody how to think. I state my opinion. You're just soft and fragile and get upset by opinions



> Second, I wasn't only asking about Cinco de Mayo, I was asking about every time. Why do you fucking care?


Because it's hilarious everytime AEW underperforms in a super fans mind it's somebody else's fault. To the point now it's Cinco De Mayo's possible fault. It's absurd



> Lastly, This isn't about you having an opinion, this is about you stating;
> 
> 'If *I *think it was a bad show then _you_ should think it was a bad show'
> 
> 'If *I* did not like a match then _you_ should not like the match'
> 
> 'If *I* think a wrestler sucks then_ you_ should think the wrestler sucks too.
> 
> Just to be clear, this doesn't solely apply to you. Their are many others on this forum this fits.
> 
> Having an opinion does not mean that everyone who doesn't share you're view is then 'laughable and ridiculous' and subject to be mocked.
> 
> That's the major problem with you and the others. Y 'all trying to tell the rest of us we should like whatever you guys like and hate whatever you hate.
> 
> I think for myself. I don't need yours our anybody else's guidance.
> 
> I know there are others who would say the same.


This last bunch is just you being soft and fragile and someone who shouldn't be on the internet. Nobody's about to play this long winded "Well in my humble opinion, but I totally understand you might not agree and I respect your right to disagree, though I think I am right" game you want to play. 

When I state my opinion on going to state my opinion. I'm not thinking about how you of the fragile eyes, are going to get upset by the fact I'm not giving 63 disclaimers on how it's my opinion. 

Now some things are facts, like "hey Cinco De Mayo might hurt Dynamite" being an excuse is fact. But that's just is what it is. 

Stop being soft and grow thicker skin. I don't know how you operate in the real world with such fragility.


----------



## VIP86

RapShepard said:


> No they're tears of anger. I've told nobody how to think. I state my opinion. You're just soft and fragile and get upset by opinions
> 
> 
> 
> Because it's hilarious everytime AEW underperforms in a super fans mind it's somebody else's fault. To the point now it's Cinco De Mayo's possible fault. It's absurd
> 
> 
> 
> This last bunch is just you being soft and fragile and someone who shouldn't be on the internet. Nobody's about to play this long winded "Well in my humble opinion, but I totally understand you might not agree and I respect your right to disagree, though I think I am right" game you want to play.
> 
> When I state my opinion on going to state my opinion. I'm not thinking about how you of the fragile eyes, are going to get upset by the fact I'm not giving 63 disclaimers on how it's my opinion.
> 
> Now some things are facts, like "hey Cinco De Mayo might hurt Dynamite" being an excuse is fact. But that's just is what it is.
> 
> Stop being soft and grow thicker skin. I don't know how you operate in the real world with such fragility.


is it a personal hoppy for you to just Nuke people with hypersonic FACTS missiles
still haven't seen someone surviving one of those


----------



## Klitschko

ripcitydisciple said:


> Why do you fucking care?


Why do you fucking care?


----------



## 3venflow

Last week's show did 1.5 to 1.6m after DVR views. Both Dynamite and Smackdown had a much higher DVR % than usual, due to the Biden speech and NFL draft.

AEW did 889,000 last week which was only 57% of the +5 viewership. Meaning AEW did around 1.5-1.6 million viewers within 5 days, so over 600,000 watched it on DVR.

AEW live viewership usually accounts for 70-75% for the total +5 viewership.


----------



## omaroo

3venflow said:


> Last week's show did 1.5 to 1.6m after DVR views. Both Dynamite and Smackdown had a much higher DVR % than usual, due to the Biden speech and NFL draft.
> 
> AEW did 889,000 last week which was only 57% of the +5 viewership. Meaning AEW did around 1.5-1.6 million viewers within 5 days, so over 600,000 watched it on DVR.
> 
> AEW live viewership usually accounts for 70-75% for the total +5 viewership.


If 1.5mil is their audience be great if they could hit that rating live or when the show airs.

But I still think 1.1-1.2 will be a good rating despite some here thinking that would be a poor rating.


----------



## RapShepard

VIP86 said:


> is it a personal hoppy for you to just Nuke people with hypersonic FACTS missiles
> still haven't seen someone surviving one of those


Nah I just be debating like everybody else. Sometimes you just got actual facts. Rip is funny because they're sensitive


----------



## One Shed

ripcitydisciple said:


> So it's not enough you trying to tell me or others how they should think now you are dictating what my emotions are at this time? Think whatever deluded justification you want to make yourself feel superior over people that don't make it reality. This whole imaginary 'tears of anger' you've conjured up to make you feel better about yourself is just that, imaginary.
> 
> Second, I wasn't only asking about Cinco de Mayo, I was asking about every time. Why do you fucking care?
> 
> Lastly, This isn't about you having an opinion, this is about you stating;
> 
> 'If *I *think it was a bad show then _you_ should think it was a bad show'
> 
> 'If *I* did not like a match then _you_ should not like the match'
> 
> 'If *I* think a wrestler sucks then_ you_ should think the wrestler sucks too.
> 
> Just to be clear, this doesn't solely apply to you. Their are many others on this forum this fits.
> 
> Having an opinion does not mean that everyone who doesn't share you're view is then 'laughable and ridiculous' and subject to be mocked.
> 
> That's the major problem with you and the others. Y 'all trying to tell the rest of us we should like whatever you guys like and hate whatever you hate.
> 
> I think for myself. I don't need yours our anybody else's guidance.
> 
> I know there are others who would say the same.


What a strange post. If anything, the users saying things like "If I think a goof like Orange Cassidy is great, you should too" are much more annoying tbh.


----------



## La Parka

Two Sheds said:


> What a strange post. If anything, the users saying things like "If I think a goof like Orange Cassidy is great, you should too" are much more annoying tbh.


Agreed, tbh.

:kobe:kobe2:kobe3:kobe4:kobe5:kobe6:kobe7:kobe8:kobe9:kobe10:kobe11


----------



## DammitChrist

Two Sheds said:


> What a strange post. If anything, the users saying things like *"If I think a goof like Orange Cassidy is terrible, you should too"* are much more annoying tbh.


Oh, I just fixed that (previously flawed post) for you. There's no need to thank me 

Orange Cassidy supporters have more of a clue anyway.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Oh, I just fixed that (previously flawed post) for you. There's no need to thank me
> 
> Orange Cassidy supporters have more of a clue anyway.


Another no substance response. Are you going to actually post anything other than "people who agree with me are right because I say so?" That is arguing from authority which is, you guessed it, yet another logical fallacy.


----------



## La Parka

DammitChrist said:


> Oh, I just fixed that (previously flawed post) for you. There's no need to thank me
> 
> Orange Cassidy supporters have more of a clue anyway.


Orange Cassidy supporters are all fools, tbh.


----------



## DammitChrist

La Parka said:


> Orange Cassidy supporters are all fools, tbh.





Two Sheds said:


> Another no substance response. Are you going to actually post anything other than "people who agree with me are right because I say so?" That is arguing from authority which is, you guessed it, yet another logical fallacy.


Perhaps actually make substantial posts then instead of derailing the thread just to mock me, or just to bait the supporters of Orange Cassidy, and we can finally get back on topic. 

This is on you btw.


----------



## La Parka

DammitChrist said:


> Perhaps actually make substantial posts then instead of derailing the thread just to mock me, or just to bait the supporters of Orange Cassidy, and we can finally get back on topic.
> 
> This is on you btw.


The thread was derailed when you baited people into a cornette vs meltzer argument. 😛


tbh


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

La Parka said:


> The thread was derailed when you baited people into a cornette vs meltzer argument. 😛
> 
> 
> tbh


*The self awareness is sub zero.*


----------



## DammitChrist

La Parka said:


> The thread was derailed when you baited people into a cornette vs meltzer argument. 😛
> 
> 
> tbh


Nah, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what you're doing now since you're bringing that topic up (yet again).



El Hammerstone said:


> You're still baiting tbh


You're also doing just that by mocking how I write some of my posts.


----------



## Bravesfan3

La Parka said:


> The thread was derailed when you baited people into a cornette vs meltzer argument. 😛
> 
> 
> tbh


Yep it's right in the rules, @DammitChrist apparently gets away with it



> Purposely inciting or baiting other members is also not allowed.


 - AEW Section Rules










Guy is clearly trolling and being negative against AEW critics... how hasn't he gotten reprimanded?...


----------



## El Hammerstone

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what you're doing now since you're bringing that topic up (yet again).


You're still baiting tbh


----------



## Bravesfan3

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what you're doing now since you're bringing that topic up (yet again).
> 
> 
> 
> You're also doing just that by mocking how I write some of my posts.












Uh tuh tuh, you baited folks, you got a little bit out of line.


----------



## omaroo

Why has this thread gone way off point?


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Perhaps actually make substantial posts then instead of derailing the thread just to mock me, or just to bait the supporters of Orange Cassidy, and we can finally get back on topic.
> 
> This is on you btw.


Calling someone else out for making an unsubstantial post or trying to knock a thread off topic is peak you tbh.


----------



## DammitChrist

Two Sheds said:


> Calling someone else out for making an unsubstantial post or trying to knock a thread off topic is peak you tbh.


Alright, I'm just going to pretend that you're also going to predict that they're getting 1.1 million viewers for Dynamite this week; which would be an accurate estimation here by us


----------



## El Hammerstone

DammitChrist said:


> Alright, I'm just going to pretend that you're also going to predict that they're getting 1.1 million viewers for Dynamite this week; which would be an accurate estimation here by us


No pretending necessary, that's exactly what he predicted.


----------



## Bravesfan3

DammitChrist said:


> Alright, I'm just going to pretend that you're also going to predict that they're getting 1.1 million viewers for Dynamite this week; which would be an accurate estimation here by us 😠


That's enough, stop antagonizing the guy.


----------



## DammitChrist

El Hammerstone said:


> No pretending necessary, that's exactly what he predicted.


Alright, where there we have it here!

I wasn't completely sure if he made that prediction there, so that explains the uncertainty from me 

I do have a good feeling that they reach that number overall, or at least reach 1.1 million viewers for a certain part of the show for Blood & Guts this week.

Edit:

I'd like to be optimistic with 1.3 million viewers, but I can never tell with how frequently that ratings move up and down.


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Alright, I'm just going to pretend that you're also going to predict that they're getting 1.1 million viewers for Dynamite this week; which would be an accurate estimation here by us


I did predict 1,100,001 in the ratings prediction thread already so...yeah. We agree.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Two Sheds said:


> I did predict 1,100,001 in the ratings prediction thread already so...yeah. We agree.


Curious.... why the random 1 at the end lol?


----------



## One Shed

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> Curious.... why the random 1 at the end lol?


Just a bit of a "Price is Right" rules joke. If someone bids $1000 and the second person bids $1001 and the real cost is $1042, the second person wins. So I would win over someone just predicting 1.1 million etc.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> Curious.... why the random 1 at the end lol?


Oh, I assume that he just wanted to be really specific here for the accuracy 

I guess it could also be because if someone else (like me or someone else) predicted 1.1 million viewers for this week, he'd be more likely to win the predictions game if they end up getting 1.105 million viewers or something since he'd be a bit closer to that actual number.

Edit:

Yep, so it was the Dwight Schrute's "_thousand dollars_ and 1 penny"-related reference :lol


----------



## Dr. Middy

Two Sheds said:


> Just a bit of a "Price is Right" rules joke. If someone bids $1000 and the second person bids $1001 and the real cost is $1042, the second person wins. So I would win over someone just predicting 1.1 million etc.


Ha, got it.

In that case I'll change my to one viewer, then I'll win when y'all end up overpredicting.


----------



## One Shed

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> Ha, got it.
> 
> In that case I'll change my to one viewer, then I'll win when y'all end up overpredicting.


Yes, that is a classic Price is Right strategy as well. And since Bob Barker did host RAW and they played the bidding game, that is a pretty solid wrestling connection to use on here I would say.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Two Sheds said:


> Yes, that is a classic Price is Right strategy as well. And since Bob Barker did host RAW and they played the bidding game, that is a pretty solid wrestling connection to use on here I would say.
> 
> View attachment 100720


As bad as the guest host era of Raw was, at least we got Bob Barker out of it. That whole segment was hilarious.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Two Sheds said:


> Just a bit of a "Price is Right" rules joke. If someone bids $1000 and the second person bids $1001 and the real cost is $1042, the second person wins. So I would win over someone just predicting 1.1 million etc.


*I definitely heard Bob Barker in my head when I read your first post.*


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

My prediction for the rating this week is 1.3. As a big WCW fan, I'm really looking forward to seeing the more classic War Games match. I'm sure I'll enjoy it as much as the Bunkhouse Brawl match a few months ago. Early 90s WCW is underrated in terms of match quality

Just no King of the Road matches lol


----------



## RapShepard

@The Doctor Middy Experience aye has Dave gave the official PPV buys yet for rebellion or has the new issue not come out yet?


----------



## yeahright2

Two Sheds said:


> Yes, that is a classic Price is Right strategy as well. And since Bob Barker did host RAW and they played the bidding game, that is a pretty solid wrestling connection to use on here I would say.
> 
> View attachment 100720


Where do you think I came up with the idea for that rule? 

So far the predictions have been fairly appart, so it was enough to just predict the nearest thousand, which pretty much everyone did, except for one user, @NamelessJobber who´s always oddly specific (which I think is great!).
But we´re getting more and more predictions with small variations -this week for instance, most of the predictions is between 1.1 -1.3 Million. With a few people being more precise.

(Obligatory shameless plug for the game)
AEW Ratings prediction game


----------



## yeahright2

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> As bad as the guest host era of Raw was, at least we got Bob Barker out of it. That whole segment was hilarious.


My favorite guest host was Hugh Jackman.. He took a good swing at Ziggler and broke his jaw so he couldn´t complain much for a week or 2


----------



## VIP86

people are suspiciously predicting low numbers for this episode  
probably so they can say "see they exceeded expectations" if the episode reached the 1 million mark 
i'm sticking with 1.4
that's what they should be doing for *War Games* on F*ree* TV


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

VIP86 said:


> people are suspiciously predicting low numbers for this episode
> probably so they can say "see they exceeded expectations" if the episode reached the 1 million mark
> i'm sticking with 1.4
> that's what they should be doing for *War Games* on F*ree* TV


Based on what? 1.4 is at the upper range of even their DVR numbers..


----------



## Outlaw91

VIP86 said:


> people are suspiciously predicting low numbers for this episode
> probably so they can say "see they exceeded expectations" if the episode reached the 1 million mark


They are trying to work you but you are too versed to be fooled like that.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

Outlaw91 said:


> They are trying to work you but you are too versed to be fooled like that.


Almost as if he's predicting an unrealistically high number for this episode 

But why?!


----------



## VIP86

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Based on what? 1.4 is at the upper range of even their DVR numbers..


Based on the fact that it's War Games on Free TV
you know, the episode everyone waiting for more than a year now
first War Games in the company's existence


Outlaw91 said:


> They are trying to work you but you are too versed to be fooled like that.


of course
glad you're noticing this too
don't worry, the situation is all under control


----------



## VIP86

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Almost as if he's predicting an unrealistically high number for this episode
> 
> But why?!


almost as if people deliberately predicting a low number 
but why !?


----------



## Outlaw91

VIP86 said:


> of course
> glad you're noticing this too
> don't worry, the situation is all under control


Stay strong and never give up.


----------



## VIP86

Outlaw91 said:


> Stay strong and never give up.


Semper Fi 🤘


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

VIP86 said:


> Based on the fact that it's War Games on Free TV
> you know, the episode everyone waiting for more than a year now
> first War Games in the company's existence
> 
> of course
> glad you're noticing this too
> don't worry, the situation is all under control


"the episode everyone waiting for"

lol, dude.. the show gets 1.4 or slightly above on DVR. 1.4 was their debut episode -- you really think they're gonna hit 1.4 live?

At least _try_ to sound genuine.


----------



## VIP86

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> "the episode everyone waiting for"
> 
> lol, dude.. the show gets 1.4 or slightly above on DVR. 1.4 was their debut episode -- you really think they're gonna hit 1.4 live?
> 
> At least _try_ to sound genuine.


yes, the episode everyone waiting for since before the pandemic
why are you pessimistic about this
yes i do genuinely think they could hit 1.4

a normal episode got 1.2 million 3 weeks ago


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

VIP86 said:


> yes, the episode everyone waiting for since before the pandemic
> why are you pessimistic about this
> yes i do genuinely think they could hit 1.4
> 
> a normal episode got 1.2 million 3 weeks ago


Thought the narrative was that that wasn't a normal episode and that 1.2 was the NXT crowd sampling the show because it was unopposed and everybody thought it sucked and nobody wanted to watch this awful show which is why they only did 900k last week?

I'm just being realistic. 1.2 to 1.4 on DVR with 75-80% of people viewing the show live to me that sounds like 1.15 - 1.2 million for a big show. 🤷‍♂️

1.4 sounds like you're trying to set the bar high.. almost "suspiciously" so


----------



## VIP86

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Thought the narrative was that that wasn't a normal episode and that 1.2 was the NXT crowd sampling the show because it was unopposed and everybody thought it sucked and nobody wanted to watch this awful show which is why they only did 900k last week?


i don't care about narratives
only talk to me about things i said personally.
this is like me blaming you for things you didn't even say


BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> I'm just being realistic. 1.2 to 1.4 on DVR with 75-80% of people viewing the show live to me that sounds like 1.15 - 1.2 million for a big show. 🤷‍♂️


does this change the fact that a normal episode got 1.2 million 3 weeks ago ?
you're telling me that a War Games episode doesn't have more interest around it than a normal episode ?


BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> 1.4 sounds like you're trying to set the bar high.. almost "suspiciously" so


and predicting just 1 million for a first time ever War Games episode also sounds suspicious


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

VIP86 said:


> i don't care about narratives
> only talk to me about things i said personally.
> this is like me blaming you for things you didn't even say
> 
> does this change the fact that a normal episode got 1.2 million 3 weeks ago ?
> you're telling me that a War Games episode doesn't have more interest around it than a normal episode ?
> 
> and predicting just 1 million for a first time ever War Games episode also sounds suspicious


So what will you say if they hit their debut number of 1.4 million, keeping in mind that most shows can never recapture their debut?

What will you say if they hit a more realistic number like I've presented?


----------



## VIP86

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> So what will you say if they hit their debut number of 1.4 million, keeping in mind that most shows can never recapture their debut?
> 
> What will you say if they hit a more realistic number like I've presented?


go back and see what was my reaction when they got 1.2 million 3 weeks ago
it's the first post in page 338

just because i'm not convinced with Tony Khan as a booker (at all)
doesn't mean i would cheer when they fail, or not commend them when they do good numbers


----------



## Aedubya

1.3
Guaren-damn-tee


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

VIP86 said:


> go back and see what was my reaction when they got 1.2 million 3 weeks ago
> it's the first post in page 338
> 
> just because i'm not convinced with Tony Khan as a booker (at all)
> doesn't mean i would cheer when they fail, or not commend them when they do good numbers


Well if Tony Khan was able to book himself back to hitting their debut number, wouldn't that mean he's at the very least a competent booker? If he can't well then what?

What's your good number? Is it 1.4 or is 1.2 good?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*1.2 is a good number for a special show, considering they've lost all the NXT viewers within two weeks.*


----------



## VIP86

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Well if Tony Khan was able to book himself back to hitting their debut number, wouldn't that mean he's at the very least a competent booker? If he can't well then what?


i don't judge things just based on the numbers
Vince McMahon gets much better numbers, but i still say he's retarded when it comes to booking (except for a very few situations)
i'm allergic to stupidity and things that doesn't make sense
like this SCU situation for example


BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> What's your good number? Is it 1.4 or is 1.2 good?


bare minimum ? i would say 1.2
but 1.4 is what i personally think they should be getting


----------



## DaSlacker

889,000 is currently their unopposed minimum and 1,240,000 is the ceiling. I can't see them jumping more than 40% from the minimum, so 1.2 million seems likely. Tyson and the novelty factor pushed the first unopposed show high (i.e 1.4 million for Iron Mike quarter). 

War Games will bring back those 200,000 casuals and NXT viewers... But they won't stay for the whole show. So I think the 1.2 million average seems reasonable.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

DaSlacker said:


> 889,000 is currently their unopposed minimum and 1,240,000 is the ceiling. I can't see them jumping more than 40% from the minimum, so 1.2 million seems likely. Tyson and the novelty factor pushed the first unopposed show high (i.e 1.4 million for Iron Mike quarter).
> 
> War Games will bring back those 200,000 casuals and NXT viewers... But they won't stay for the whole show. So I think the 1.2 million average seems reasonable.


*That's my exact logic. They need celebrities and big matches to go over a mil, even unopposed.*


----------



## VIP86

DaSlacker said:


> 889,000 is currently their unopposed minimum


but people said this was because of Joe Biden
so it doesn't really count as a true minimum number


----------



## Pentagon Senior

We don't have enough data yet to know what is the new normal base viewership gor AEW. By the time we get past DoN it will be much clearer.

1.4 seems very unrealistic to me though.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *1.2 is a good number for a special show, considering they've lost all the NXT viewers within two weeks.*





VIP86 said:


> i don't judge things just based on the numbers
> Vince McMahon gets much better numbers, but i still say he's retarded when it comes to booking (except for a very few situations)
> i'm allergic to stupidity and things that doesn't make sense
> like this SCU situation for example
> 
> bare minimum ? i would say 1.2
> but 1.4 is what i personally think they should be getting


You: "but 1.4 is what i personally think they should be getting"

Me 3 hours ago: "Based on what? 1.4 is at the upper range of even their DVR numbers.." 

Well I guess we're back at square one. 

Good chat.


----------



## VIP86

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> You: "but 1.4 is what i personally think they should be getting"
> 
> Me 3 hours ago: "Based on what? 1.4 is at the upper range of even their DVR numbers.."
> 
> Well I guess we're back at square one.
> 
> Good chat.


you're saying 1.4 with DVR
i'm saying it should be 1.4 Live
that sums it up i guess


----------



## mrcool123

I think people are over estimating the number for tonight. I reckon around 1.2m (which will still be decent).

Is there any big news stuff in the States tonight?


----------



## La Parka

mrcool123 said:


> I think people are over estimating the number for tonight. I reckon around 1.2m (which will still be decent).
> 
> Is there any big news stuff in the States tonight?


I believe there’s a full moon so it’s likely to take many viewers who would otherwise be glued to their television watching dynamite


----------



## VIP86

Pentagon Senior said:


> 1.4 seems very unrealistic to me though.


how is it very unrealistic if it was a special first time ever episode
a PPV level event that was in the back of people's minds since they announced it before the pandemic
did people forget all the comments from Vince McMahon and AEW naming it Blood & Guts based on this
it was a big deal back then


----------



## RapShepard

984k is my guess.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> 984k is my guess.


*Why so low? 😳*


----------



## La Parka

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Why so low? 😳*


Everyone’s going to be watching the news on that hammer attack, obviously.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

VIP86 said:


> how is it very unrealistic if it was a special first time ever episode
> a PPV level event that was in the back of people's minds since they announced it before the pandemic
> did people forget all the comments from Vince McMahon and AEW naming it Blood & Guts based on this
> it was a big deal back then


Like I said above we don't know the new normal base level yet

1.2 was unexpected and we don't know the effect of being the first week unopposed, the Jericho interview, Tyson appearing and tweeting about it

1.1 slight drop the next week

Sub 900k last week but we don't know how much of an effect the Biden speech had (if any)

Too many unknown variables at this point but they've not got close to 1.4 since week one, circa 18 months ago. Yes this is a special episode but we've had a few of those along the way. I just can't see it but hope I'm wrong


----------



## VIP86

Pentagon Senior said:


> Like I said above we don't know the new normal base level yet
> 
> 1.2 was unexpected and we don't know the effect of being the first week unopposed, the Jericho interview, Tyson appearing and tweeting about it
> 
> 1.1 slight drop the next week
> 
> Sub 900k last week but we don't know how much of an effect the Biden speech had (if any)
> 
> Too many unknown variables at this point but they've not got close to 1.4 since week one, circa 18 months ago. Yes this is a special episode but we've had a few of those along the way. I just can't see it but hope I'm wrong


at least we know that a normal unopposed episode got 1.2 million
add to that the interest level of a War Games event
it's not very unrealistic if you think about it


----------



## Pentagon Senior

VIP86 said:


> at least we know that a normal unopposed episode got 1.2 million
> add to that the interest level of a War Games event
> it's not very unrealistic if you think about it


Like I said we need more data. At the moment that is a one off on the first week unopposed (which may have created a buzz), after the Jericho interview and with Tyson. It dropped then dropped again after that. Seems a shaky number to base your whole prediction on but that's just my opinion. If they had done three weeks in a row around that number I might agree.


----------



## Klitschko

It's Wednesday and some people are working a second shift today. That's obviously going to impact their ratings a bit tonight. 






I came prepared.


----------



## RapShepard

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Why so low? [emoji15]*





La Parka said:


> Everyone’s going to be watching the news on that hammer attack, obviously.


Idk I just don't feel like the hype is seriously there. Could easily be wrong. But can't see a 200k+ swing for a match with no real stakes. I expect a nice but small recovery from last week. But not a massive jump.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

Pentagon Senior said:


> Like I said we need more data. At the moment that is a one off on the first week unopposed (which may have created a buzz), after the Jericho interview and with Tyson. It dropped then dropped again after that. Seems a shaky number to base your whole prediction on but that's just my opinion. If they had done three weeks in a row around that number I might agree.


Yeah, like I mean if their weekly average over several months was 1.2 live then 1.4 wouldn't seem that unrealistic.I'm going off of their normal DVR numbers and the percentage that regularly watch live and 1.4 seems kind of high and 1.2 might even be pushing it imo but I guess we'll have to just wait and see..


----------



## Pentagon Senior

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Yeah, like I mean if their weekly average over several months was 1.2 live then 1.4 wouldn't seem that unrealistic.I'm going off of their normal DVR numbers and the percentage that regularly watch live and 1.4 seems kind of high and 1.2 might even be pushing it imo but I guess we'll have to just wait and see..


Yup it's a bit of a mystery imo. Honestly,, nothing would surprise me within the range of 950k-1.2m which is a very wide margin lol


----------



## VIP86

what i can 100% guarantee is that the number will be between 1 and 2,000,000
i dare anybody to challenge me on this
come on, do it, i dare you


----------



## One Shed

It is a bit hard to predict because the build has been awful, but the spectacle of a War Games match is a draw itself, at least in theory. They just need to deliver this time vs the bomb dud. If they can do that, the people who turned it on from hearing about the spectacle might just come back again. Announce on this show their world champ is going to face the janitor at the next PPV, and the opposite might happen.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Two Sheds said:


> Announce on this show their world champ is going to face the janitor at the next PPV, and the opposite might happen.


*I agree. A rematch with Moxley on PPV would be stupid.*


----------



## DammitChrist

Eh, screw it. 

I’ll go with a reasonably safe 1.1 million viewers for this week.


----------



## VIP86

i just realized something
people will get to see War Games for free
but they will have to pay $60 to see Orange Cassidy ?
does this mean that Orange Cassidy is more valuable than all 10 wrestlers in War Games ?
not even the head of the treasury department can explain the business reasoning behind this
i guess if the owner's silly son dresses like you in halloween
you suddenly become the most valuable asset


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

VIP86 said:


> i just realized something
> people will get to see War Games for free
> but they will have to pay $60 to see Orange Cassidy ?
> does this mean that Orange Cassidy is more valuable than all 10 wrestlers in War Games ?
> not even the head of the treasury department can explain the business reasoning behind this
> i guess if the owner's silly son dresses like you in halloween
> you suddenly become the most valuable asset


*I mean, he was literally the most valuable asset outside of Chris Jericho last year.*


----------



## VIP86

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I mean, he was literally the most valuable asset outside of Chris Jericho last year.*


so you're saying Orange Cassidy is worth $60
and War Games is worth $0
i think we do need the head of the treasury department to explain this


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

VIP86 said:


> so you're saying Orange Cassidy is worth $60
> and War Games is worth $0
> i think we do need the head of the treasury department to explain this


*No, but he sold the most t shirts, so it's understandable if they do value him more than Pinnacle.*


----------



## VIP86

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *No, but he sold the most t shirts, so it's understandable if they do value him more than Pinnacle.*


he didn't need to sell a single T-shirt


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

VIP86 said:


> he didn't need to sell a single T-shirt
> 
> View attachment 100763


*Tony Khan also said he initially didn't get Orange Cassidy and just saw him as a job guy until he got over massively with the fans. It's not like he forced Orange Cassidy from the start.*


----------



## VIP86

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Tony Khan also said he initially didn't get Orange Cassidy and just saw him as a job guy until he got over massively with the fans. It's not like he forced Orange Cassidy from the start.*


the question is not if he's forcing him or not
the question is
does it make sense that War Games is free
and an Orange Cassidy match is $60


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Alright, which one of you did this?







*


----------



## VIP86

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Alright, which one of you did this?
> View attachment 100764
> *


A Lot more questions than answers about this


----------



## NathanMayberry

VIP86 said:


> people are suspiciously predicting low numbers for this episode
> probably so they can say "see they exceeded expectations" if the episode reached the 1 million mark
> i'm sticking with 1.4
> that's what they should be doing for *War Games* on F*ree* TV


I actually agree with what you’re saying.. AEW fans have done this a lot. Every show is a success because tnt apparently was interested in paying tens of million a year for 400,000 people on Prime Time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Out of interest sake - found on Twitter

Darby’s reign drawing

TK’s booking and Darby’s talent made him quite the draw (figure is vs the Quarter before his match)


----------



## holy

Is the Cinco De Maya holiday going to delay ratings?


----------



## Geert Wilders

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Out of interest sake - found on Twitter
> 
> Darby’s reign drawing
> 
> TK’s booking and Darby’s talent made him quite the draw (figure is vs the Quarter before his match)
> 
> View attachment 100766


Darby is a bonafide AEW star. 

Now if only the other wrestlers get the same amount of attention.


----------



## NathanMayberry

How exactly does an average increase of 39,000 viewers in a country of 330,000,000 people make you a star?


----------



## yeahright2

NathanMayberry said:


> How exactly does an average increase of 39,000 viewers in a country of 330,000,000 people make you a star?


Simple; It doesn´t.. But at least he´s not running off people, so that´s something.


----------



## RapShepard

NathanMayberry said:


> How exactly does an average increase of 39,000 viewers in a country of 330,000,000 people make you a star?


It means that they're doing something right with him as champ, even if he's not a massive difference maker. It means they as of now have somebody they can look at as a feasible future star. If he's getting folk to tune in for heatless matches. Imagine what he might do with interesting stories


----------



## The Wood

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *There are dozens of YouTube videos where Cornette references the NDA and conversations he's had with Tony. It's well documented and no one has called him a liar yet, and we know that whole company listens to his rants.*


Chris Jericho also got drunk and said they wanted him, then deleted in when Cornette said he didn’t want them. 



NathanMayberry said:


> Here is a summary of this place since the start of the year...
> 
> 1/6 - The attempt at a Domestic Coup just ruined the ratings for what was otherwise a PPV quality show!
> 
> 1/13 - With an Impeachment following an Insurrection, plus the Inauguration next week, January can't be reflective of anything ratings-wise!
> 
> 1/20 - Inauguration was going to dominate the ratings this week, we went over this.
> 
> 1/27 - The TNT feed went down for 15 minutes on some cable services, of course that was going to affect the quarter hours and make Dynamite's rating look bad!
> 
> 2/3 - LOL EDGE ISN'T A DRAW, PLUS THE FORBIDDEN DOOR IS NOW WIDE OPEN
> 
> 2/10 - The Impeachment destroyed everything, why does all the news have to happen on Wednesdays?!
> 
> 2/17 - Now that the news has finally cleared out, AEW can finally move on up!
> 
> 2/24 - ALRIGHT, BROKE 800K, NOW WE'RE TRENDING UPWARD AGAIN!
> 
> 3/3 - WOO WE GOT THAT SHAQ RUB FOR 900K+, AND RIGHT BEFORE A BIG PPV TO BOOT. 1 MILLION, HERE WE COME!
> 
> 3/10 - Of course South Park's Vaccination Special is going to draw! No, the sparklers on Sunday had nothing to do with it, why do you ask?
> 
> 3/17 - Everyone was partying because it was St. Patrick's day, you guys!
> 
> 3/24 - (Tbh, I got nothing for this one. There weren't even any March Madness games on. The thread is mostly about Omega not being a draw and the Forbidden Door being a bust)
> 
> 3/31 - You guys, the ending to Revolution is proving to be more damaging than we realized.
> 
> 4/7 - It was supposed to be a terrible number, the other guys were running a Takeover during WM weekend!
> 
> 4/14 - WE GOT A MILLION UNOPPOSED, WE KNEW THAT NXT WAS THE PROBLEM ALL ALONG!
> 
> 4/21 - LOST VIEWERS BUT STILL GOT OVER A MILLION SUCK IT LOSERS
> 
> 4/28 - Biden's address affected everybody


Haha, amazing. All true.


----------



## NathanMayberry

RapShepard said:


> It means that they're doing something right with him as champ, even if he's not a massive difference maker. It means they as of now have somebody they can look at as a feasible future star. If he's getting folk to tune in for heatless matches. Imagine what he might do with interesting stories


But these are near negligible numbers.. put anyone else in his position and they’d do the same 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

Around 1,600 tickets sold for yesterday's show, the biggest pandemic era attendance in AEW. 5 people took up the offer of refunds since all of the non-B&G matches were recorded and fans were told it'd be on the big screen.


----------



## La Parka

3venflow said:


> Around 1,600 tickets sold for yesterday's show, the biggest pandemic era attendance in AEW. 5 people took up the offer of refunds since all of the non-B&G matches were recorded and fans were told it'd be on the big screen.


I have no idea why AEW didn’t just tell the people beforehand the show started at 9.

What an unnecessary inconvenience for the people who attended. High School plays are better prepared.


----------



## Mr316

La Parka said:


> I have no idea why AEW didn’t just tell the people beforehand the show started at 9.
> 
> What an unnecessary inconvenience for the people who attended. High School plays are better prepared.


They thought they would sell less tickets if they did that. Not right.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Anything under 1.1 would be worrisome. I think they hit it. Maybe 1.2


----------



## zkorejo

3venflow said:


> Around 1,600 tickets sold for yesterday's show, the biggest pandemic era attendance in AEW. 5 people took up the offer of refunds since all of the non-B&G matches were recorded and fans were told it'd be on the big screen.


Nice. No wonder the place sounded alot louder than usual I was confused if they were piped in or what.


----------



## omaroo

Hope they get strong rating. 

Under a million would be huge blow. 

But do think they will get over a million.


----------



## TD Stinger

Regardless of whether you thought the show was good, bad, or somewhere in between like me, it felt like they had a good amount of buzz throughout the show.

My guess was 1.3 million. I feel pretty confident sticking with that.


----------



## omaroo

TD Stinger said:


> Regardless of whether you thought the show was good, bad, or somewhere in between like me, it felt like they had a good amount of buzz throughout the show.
> 
> My guess was 1.3 million. I feel pretty confident sticking with that.


Would be brilliant if they could hit that. Only few hours to go. 

Overall I thought it was a decent fun show and I still prefer it to any other promotion out there. So they must be doing something right.


----------



## rich110991

1.2 is my prediction


----------



## Prosper

Hoping for a 1.3 with a 0.45 demo. I'm fine with anything over a million though.


----------



## Joe Gill

this will be the highest rated show in AEW history.... and this will be the peak... jericho sleeping on a matress will be the highest rated segment in aew history... and it will be all downhill from here


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Demo has to start being consistent over 0.4 is my hope


----------



## ProjectGargano

Joe Gill said:


> this will be the highest rated show in AEW history.... and this will be the peak... jericho sleeping on a matress will be the highest rated segment in aew history... and it will be all downhill from here


Are you already setting up your loss and your response to that loss? lol


----------



## Garty

Joe Gill said:


> this will be the highest rated show in AEW history.... and this will be the peak... jericho sleeping on a matress will be the highest rated segment in aew history... and it will be all downhill from here


Just like the pyro-dud was, right?!


----------



## Chan Hung

I predict 1.1 overall. It will for sure be higher than last week. And here's the next prediction, next week they'll be in the high 800-mid 900's, basically back down again.


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> Hoping for a 1.3 with a 0.45 demo. I'm fine with anything over a million though.


If you were a real fan you wouldn't accept anything less than a 5.1 with a 3.4 demo


----------



## EmbassyForever

930K imo


----------



## La Parka

5 million or bust


----------



## RainmakerV2

Omg omg


----------



## 3venflow

The rating is in...

1,090,000 with 0.42 in the key demo.

Number one on cable!


----------



## Mr316

Ouch. Not a good number considering all the hype...and it’s only gonna go down from here.


----------



## Dark Emperor

3venflow said:


> The rating is in...
> 
> 1,090,000 with 0.42 in the key demo.
> 
> Number one on cable!


Okay rating. Pretty low viewership for such a big show.


----------



## .christopher.

Barely a million? Wow.


----------



## Dark Emperor

RainmakerV2 said:


> Omg omg


Thought they got like 2.0m when i read this haha. Why you so shocked?


----------



## RainmakerV2

I mean thats borderline okay for the hype they put into it.


----------



## 3venflow

The first time in history AEW Dynamite has finished #1 in the Wednesday night cable rankings for the key demographic.


----------



## Prosper

Almost a 1.1 with a 0.42 and #1 on cable last night? I can rock with that. Wanted a 1.3 but this is fine by me. Still a very good rating.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Good for them


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> The rating is in...
> 
> 1,090,000 with 0.42 in the key demo.
> 
> Number one on cable!
> 
> View attachment 100830


over 0.40 - happiness

number 1 - how much higher can you go?


----------



## Mr316

So they officially lost 300k viewers again and they’re gonna lose another 200k in the upcoming weeks. Not good.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Wow they finally beat the Challenge 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> over 0.40 - happiness
> 
> number 1 - how much higher can you go?


Yeah, besides the first edition post-NXT move (0.44), this is AEW's best performance in the 18-49 since December.


----------



## Prosper

If I were to guess, viewers were probably lost for the 4 way tag match and Cody vs QT in Hour 1 then came back for the main event.


----------



## RainmakerV2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> over 0.40 - happiness
> 
> number 1 - how much higher can you go?



RAW is 1, 2, 3 in the demo every week, lol. And?


----------



## RapShepard

RapShepard said:


> 984k .32 demo


was off a hundred k both ways


----------



## The Wood

Ouch. Not a great number for such a big giveaway. And how many of those people came away with a good impression? This feels like a misfire.


----------



## RapShepard

Solid number though. Next week's card is stacked let's see it they keep the momentum going


----------



## 3venflow

This week's demo breakdown vs. the median of the past four weeks (c/o Brandon Thurston).

Big gains in the young male audience.

P18-49 +20%
F18-49 +13%
M18-49 +25%
P18-34 +15%
F12-34 -26%
M12-34 +47%
P25-54 +20%
P50+ +1%
P2+ +9%


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

As usual will be interesting to see the quarter numbers but that’s not exactly great considering the hype going into the show. #1 on cable in key demo is nice, but this doesn’t even beat viewership on the episode a couple weeks ago.


----------



## ProjectGargano

That was just solid. Number 1 one cable and the Demo was pretty good tho.


----------



## Mr316

RainmakerV2 said:


> RAW is 1, 2, 3 in the demo every week, lol. And?


Exactly. Just have to look at the chart. No one watches cable anymore except for the news and just a few special shows.


----------



## Dr. Middy

This is a solid number, maybe a bit lower than I expected but solid. Usually the number the following show is reflective on last week so we'll see what happens here. The card next week is pretty heavy too, so it would be cool if they can keep momentum


----------



## 3venflow

Mr316 said:


> Exactly. Just have to look at the chart. No one watches cable anymore except for the news and just a few special shows.


So if nobody watches cable anymore, how is being number one on cable bad?

Very unrealistic expectations on here. Weeks ago it was 'AEW won't hit a million ever again', now it's 'anything below the shocking 1.2m rating they did after NXT moved is a disappointment'. People forever shifting the goal posts.

These numbers are a success. They drew more numbers in the key demographic than any other show, but it's never enough apparently.


----------



## Kentucky34

Mr316 said:


> Ouch. Not a good number considering all the hype...and it’s only gonna go down from here.


Yep.

They just can't build or maintain their audience.


----------



## TD Stinger

#1 on the night is great to see. Did about what I though they would do in the Demo too. Viewership though was lower than I thought it would be. My guess was 1.3.

So even with lower than expected viewership I'd call this a success. The interesting thing will be if there's a come down next week.


----------



## Mr316

3venflow said:


> So if nobody watches cable anymore, how is being number one on cable bad?
> 
> Very unrealistic expectations on here. Weeks ago it was 'AEW won't hit a million ever again', now it's 'anything below the shocking 1.2m rating they did after NXT moved is a disappointment'. People forever shifting the goal posts.
> 
> These numbers are a success.


These numbers suck. Everyone was expecting atleast 1.2 million. They barely got 1 million despite all the hype for the match.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Kentucky34 said:


> Yep.
> 
> They just can't build or maintain their audience.


Well, almost 2 years since Dynamite beginning the ratings are up, besides the premiere. That is the fact.


----------



## RainmakerV2

3venflow said:


> So if nobody watches cable anymore, how is being number one on cable bad?
> 
> Very unrealistic expectations on here. Weeks ago it was 'AEW won't hit a million ever again', now it's 'anything below the shocking 1.2m rating they did after NXT moved is a disappointment'. People forever shifting the goal posts.
> 
> These numbers are a success. They drew more numbers in the key demographic than any other show, but it's never enough apparently.


No ones shifting goalposts. They had 1.2 the first night without NXT. Thats your base. You had Cody, Omega, Moxley, Baker, Darby, Cassidy, all on this show with the most hyped match in the history of the company and you hit 1.09. Thats not exactly great. Its satisfactory, but its not great.


----------



## .christopher.

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> This is a solid number, maybe a bit lower than I expected but solid. *Usually the number the following show is reflective on last week* so we'll see what happens here. The card next week is pretty heavy too, so it would be cool if they can keep momentum


That's usually the case, but here, like when the WWE do special shows like a draft or an anniversary, the rating is usually dependent on what's being advertised solely for this specific show.

Next weeks ratings will be back to piggying off of how well received the prior one was.


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> Solid number though. Next week's card is stacked let's see it they keep the momentum going





The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> This is a solid number, maybe a bit lower than I expected but solid. Usually the number the following show is reflective on last week so we'll see what happens here. The card next week is pretty heavy too, so it would be cool if they can keep momentum


Yeah looks like we got:

PAC vs Orange Cassidy #1 Contenders Match
Young Bucks vs SCU Tag Titles
Darby Allin vs Miro TNT Title
Moxley vs Yuji Nagata IWGP US Title
Blood and Guts Fallout

Doubt that kind of card doesn't retain viewers week to week. I was pleased to see the hype package they gave the Mox/Nagata match. Got me a lot more interested seeing as I didn't know Yuji before.


----------



## Kentucky34

ProjectGargano said:


> Well, almost 2 years since Dynamite beginning the ratings are up, besides the premiere. That is the fact.


Without NXT as competition. 

Soon they will be back down to 700-800k without competition.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Kentucky34 said:


> Without NXT as competition.
> 
> Soon they will be back down to 700-800k without competition.


Well, they forced NXT to move, so is a win anyways.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> If you were a real fan you wouldn't accept anything less than a 5.1 with a 3.4 demo


*Underachievers, bro.*


----------



## Prosper

Kentucky34 said:


> Without NXT as competition.
> 
> Soon they will be back down to 700-800k without competition.


Would that bring you joy?


----------



## Kentucky34

ProjectGargano said:


> Well, they forced NXT to move, so is a win anyways.


Their audience is still falling.


----------



## Kentucky34

Prosper said:


> Would that bring you joy?


No.


----------



## Chan Hung

Mr316 said:


> Ouch. Not a good number considering all the hype...and it’s only gonna go down from here.


Very close to the 1.1 i predicted. Yep, next week expect 800k-880 probably tops.


----------



## qntntgood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> over 0.40 - happiness
> 
> number 1 - how much higher can you go?


Again no growth what so ever, and the 47 to 50 year old showed up again for aew. Man, were are those jokes for nxt now ?


----------



## Kentucky34

Chan Hung said:


> Very close to the 1.1 i predicted. Yep, next week expect 800k-880 probably tops.


Agreed


----------



## ProjectGargano

Kentucky34 said:


> Their audience is still falling.


No it isn't, they have better medium viewership in 2021 than 2019.


----------



## 3venflow

Mr316 said:


> These numbers suck. Everyone was expecting atleast 1.2 million. They barely got 1 million despite all the hype for the match.


If you think those numbers suck, you're not worth debating. The 1.2m rating they did post-NXT was such a shock that no one on here could believe it. TNT issued a press release to celebrate it as if they too were shocked. Moreover, the key demographic remains the most important thing - despite what some people want to believe - and it was one of their best in the past year.

If you mean a handful of people on a message board is 'everyone' then yeah. But, no. Only TNT's expectations are important and if you think they aren't happy being number one on cable, then you're very naive. They didn't have a single show in the top 150 besides Dynamite (#1), showing the importance of that product to their lineup. It's no wonder they have ordered a second show for this fall.

Three weeks ago, you said 'anything below 900k' unopposed would be a 'huge failure'. Now over 1m 'sucks' to you. No matter what they do, you're going to continue to move the goal posts and aren't interested in being objective on this topic.

Also, it's possible that B&G itself propped up the rating from hour one, which was boring last night.


----------



## Kentucky34

They need a real star. Bryan might be the answer. 

Rollins isn't available.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> No ones shifting goalposts. They had 1.2 the first night without NXT. Thats your base. You had Cody, *Omega*, Moxley, Baker, *Darby, Cassidy*, all on this show with the most hyped match in the history of the company and you hit 1.09. Thats not exactly great. Its satisfactory, but its not great.


Did not wrestle


----------



## Chan Hung

RainmakerV2 said:


> I mean thats borderline okay for the hype they put into it.


For the hell they went through to get less than 1.1 it's just not worth going all out that much to only go back and drop the following week. To be honest, even shitty ass Raw is getting too high of a rating and they are more than half assing it. For AEW, just stick to good tv, and get rid of shitheads like Dark Order, Stunt etc...and i think they will remain in the upper 800k tops as their usual spot.


----------



## Kentucky34

ProjectGargano said:


> No it isn't, they have better medium viewership in 2021 than 2019.


Without NXT as competition. 

So really their audience is falling.


----------



## Millennial

@Mr316 and @The Wood still can't bear the fact that AEW are killing it lol.

Good shit with Dynamite topping the chart.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Kentucky34 said:


> Without NXT as competition.
> 
> So really their audience is falling.


No it isn't, they gained some NXT viewers, so they increased their audience.


----------



## RainmakerV2

3venflow said:


> If you think those numbers suck, you're not worth debating. The 1.2m rating they did post-NXT was such a shock that no one on here could believe it. TNT issued a press release to celebrate it as if they too were shocked. Moreover, the key demographic remains the most important thing - despite what some people want to believe - and it was one of their best in the past year.
> 
> If you mean a handful of people on a message board is 'everyone' then yeah. But, no. Only TNT's expectations are important and if you think they aren't happy being number one on cable, then you're very naive. They didn't have a single show in the top 150 besides Dynamite (#1), showing the importance of that product to their lineup. It's no wonder they have ordered a second show for this fall.
> 
> Three weeks ago, you said 'anything below 900k' unopposed would be a 'huge failure'. Now over 1m 'sucks' to you. No matter what they do, you're going to continue to move the goal posts and aren't interested in being objective on this topic.
> 
> Also, it's possible that B&G itself propped up the rating from hour one, which was boring last night.


RAW is 1 2 3 in the demo every week, and according to the internet its the worst show ever produced and Vince is senile and WWE is dying..so I mean, which is it?


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> Did not wrestle



Omega didnt wrestle last night? You sure?


----------



## La Parka

AEW had 1.2 the week NXT went to Tuesday nights. They’re now at slightly below 1.1. That’s a significant amount of people who didn’t tune into AEWs huge PPV main event type of match. 

AEW is giving away two potential PPV matches (Darby and Miro and SCU vs Young Bucks) next week, you’d hope that number would be above one million but now I’m not so sure.


----------



## Prosper

Kentucky34 said:


> No.


I don't know man I think you're pretty hyped at the scenario.


----------



## Chan Hung

Basically AEW is at a 1.0-1.2 when they put on their best and that is as far as they will probably get unless they do some sort of Daniel Bryan or CM Punk inclusion. Otherwise i think the ratings will lie around 800-850k for the rest of the year.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

qntntgood said:


> Again no growth what so ever, and the 47 to 50 year old showed up again for aew. Man, were are those jokes for nxt now ?


if you want to talk NXT, there’s a whole... quiet.... forum for it that way

0.4 in key demo is actual growth / their normal number was 0.32 - 0.36 on a good week


----------



## Geert Wilders

3venflow said:


> The rating is in...
> 
> 1,090,000 with 0.42 in the key demo.
> 
> Number one on cable!
> 
> View attachment 100830


👏
A deserved rating.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> RAW is 1 2 3 in the demo every week, and according to the internet its the worst show ever produced and Vince is senile and WWE is dying..so I mean, which is it?


The viewership and demo of RAW is decreasing every year

While AEW viewership and demo is increasing.


----------



## Chan Hung

La Parka said:


> AEW had 1.2 the week NXT went to Tuesday nights. They’re now at slightly below 1.1. That’s a significant amount of people who didn’t tune into AEWs huge PPV main event type of match.
> 
> AEW is giving away two potential PPV matches (Darby and Miro and SCU vs Young Bucks) next week, you’d hope that number would be above one million but now I’m not so sure.


I doubt it will be higher next week. B&G seemed way more of a casual fan attraction and it didnt work too well so Darby vs Miro i dont think will be a huge rating, it wont be weak but i dont expect it to exceed B&G.


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> The viewership and demo of RAW is decreasing every year
> 
> While AEW viewership and demo is increasing.


They're down 100k from 2 weeks ago with their most hyped show ever. What?


----------



## .christopher.

Chan Hung said:


> Basically AEW is at a 1.0-1.2 when they put on their best and that is as far as they will probably get unless they do some sort of Daniel Bryan or CM Punk inclusion. Otherwise i think the ratings will lie around 800-850k for the rest of the year.


Daniel Bryan won't move the ratings. Being jobbed out left, right and centre killed any star power he had when he had all that buzz behind him during his comeback.


----------



## rbl85

1 thing that every wrestling shows have in common is the women viewers.

It seems really hard to get the women to watch the shows.


----------



## ProjectGargano

AEW now can make 1.1M in a show that Nakazawa is wrestling. This is building new stars 😂


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> They're down 100k from 2 weeks ago with their most hyped show ever. What?


What numbers was AEW doing last year ?


----------



## Prosper

Chan Hung said:


> Basically AEW is at a 1.0-1.2 when they put on their best and that is as far as they will probably get unless they do some sort of Daniel Bryan or CM Punk inclusion. Otherwise i think the ratings will lie around 800-850k for the rest of the year.


I mean hey 1.0 - 1.2 on cable is a range I'm fine with as long as TNT is happy. And they were happy with far less. That's all that matters to me as a fan because it means they are here to stay for a long time.

Interested in seeing the late numbers and how many people watched B&G later. Even I couldn't watch live.


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> What numbers was AEW doing last year ?


You and i both know thats a stupid comparison since NXT was opposing them. That would be like talking about RAWs rating before Nitro was created.


Do better.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Some of you man got me scratching my head.

Anything above 1 million is a win. Last week I believe is a more accurate rating for Dynamite. Nothing special was going on. It was unopposed.

like @Chan Hung said, 800-850k is likely the hardcore viewers that will watch every week, but with 200-300k watching it occasionally if they have nothing else to do. 

Now what AEW have to do, is turn those 200-300k casuals into hardcores.


----------



## omaroo

Not bad at all. Nearly 1.1 million. 

Will hope they can keep over a million and between 1.1-1.2 million most weeks. 

But I'm sure if they fall below a million next week or some weeks AEW is dying or not growing


----------



## rich110991

Good result


----------



## Kentucky34

ProjectGargano said:


> No it isn't, they gained some NXT viewers, so they increased their audience.


They only partially replaced the viewers they lost between 2019 and 2021.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> You and i both know thats a stupid comparison since NXT was opposing them. That would be like talking about RAWs rating before Nitro was created.
> 
> 
> Do better.


You and i know that 2 years is too soon to talk about that.


----------



## 3venflow

RainmakerV2 said:


> You and i both know thats a stupid comparison since NXT was opposing them. That would be like talking about RAWs rating before Nitro was created.


Well, AEW did run unopposed twice last year in fact. They did ratings of 928,000 (0.36 in key demo) and 1,016,000 (0.37 in key demo). So this week's show was better than them in both total viewers and the key demographic.



Chan Hung said:


> I doubt it will be higher next week. B&G seemed way more of a casual fan attraction and it didnt work too well so Darby vs Miro i dont think will be a huge rating, it wont be weak but i dont expect it to exceed B&G.


Quite possibly, but next week's show is stacked top to bottom. Last night's show was boring as anything in hour one with everything coming down to B&G in the last 40 minutes.

Next week has Darby vs. Miro, PAC vs. OC, Bucks vs. SCU, Nagata vs. Moxley... so, three title matches and a number one contender match. Plus Cody's DON announcement and Jade interview.


----------



## rbl85

3venflow said:


> Well, AEW did run unopposed twice last year in fact. They did ratings of 928,000 (0.36 in key demo) and 1,016,000 (0.37 in key demo). So this week's show was better than them in both total viewers and the key demographic.
> 
> 
> 
> *Quite possibly, but next week's show is stacked top to bottom. Last night's show was boring as anything in hour one with everything coming down to B&G in the last 40 minutes.*
> 
> Next week has Darby vs. Miro, PAC vs. OC, Bucks vs. SCU, Nagata vs. Moxley... so, three title matches and a number one contender match. Plus Cody's DON announcement and Jade interview.


That's the problem when you have a big attraction, everything else does not really matter.

For next week they need to announce a big women segment.


----------



## RainmakerV2

3venflow said:


> Well, AEW did run unopposed twice last year in fact. They did ratings of 928,000 (0.36 in key demo) and 1,016,000 (0.37 in key demo). So this week's show was better than them in both total viewers and the key demographic.
> 
> 
> 
> Quite possibly, but next week's show is stacked top to bottom. Last night's show was boring as anything in hour one with everything coming down to B&G in the last 40 minutes.
> 
> Next week has Darby vs. Miro, PAC vs. OC, Bucks vs. SCU, Nagata vs. Moxley... so, three title matches and a number one contender match. Plus Cody's DON announcement and Jade interview.


Were those shows the most hyped TV in company history? No. Youre the one moving the goalposts. 2 weeks ago when NXT left, 1.2 million tuned in. Thats your goalpost. 2 weeks later, the most hyped show in company history with almost every single top star on it did 1.09. Thats just a fact. I said it was satisfactory, but thats all it is. Its a C Plus.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> Were those shows the most hyped TV in company history? No. Youre the one moving the goalposts. 2 weeks ago when NXT left, 1.2 million tuned in. Thats your goalpost. 2 weeks later, the most hyped show in company history with almost every single top star on it did 1.09. Thats just a fact. I said it was satisfactory, but thats all it is. Its a C Plus.


Nearly did the same demo tho


----------



## qntntgood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> if you want to talk NXT, there’s a whole... quiet.... forum for it that way
> 
> 0.4 in key demo is actual growth / their normal number was 0.32 - 0.36 on a good week


Really were the joke for nxt audience is almost dead,when in fact aew shares that same audience. if look at the two key demos were in increase actually,happened it same has when two before the drop last week.so I ask were is the growth,because what happens next when the number drops.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Feels about right overall. Think I predicted 1.04m and I was honestly only expecting 850-900k in the post NXT era (a few weeks ago) so 1.09m is decent. The hardcore viewership is likely less as we'll see in the next few weeks.

TNT will be delighted with the demo and no. 1 in the rankings though no doubt. Congrats AEW.


----------



## 3venflow

RainmakerV2 said:


> Were those shows the most hyped TV in company history? No. Youre the one moving the goalposts. 2 weeks ago when NXT left, 1.2 million tuned in. Thats your goalpost. 2 weeks later, the most hyped show in company history with almost every single top star on it did 1.09. Thats just a fact. I said it was satisfactory, but thats all it is. Its a C Plus.


No, episode one and Winter is Coming (Omega vs. Moxley for the title) were more hyped. B&G was also hyped a lot, but not as much as the company's two top men for the world title on TV. What if it turns out tomorrow that the cage match averaged 1.2 and hour one dragged it down?

Moving the goal posts would be if I said AEW would do 1.3m regularly or something but didn't and then excusing it. In fact, I said all along last year that if they went unopposed they would hit 1m regularly, based on the data of the aforementioned show. And that looks to be true. It won't be an every week thing, but a regular 1m-plus is realistic for them.

Also, again the key demographic is viewed as the most important thing and they did 0.42, which is up among their best. TNT would take 1.1m/0.42 over 1.3m/0.34, 100%.

A two-year old product was number one on cable. Downplaying that as being anything but a success is more akin to moving the goal posts. No one expected 1.2m for the first unopposed show this year - their soft 'redebut'. Go to the predictions thread from that week, no one was even in the ball park.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Under 1.1 is bad considering they gave away a pay-per-view caliber match on free TV and couldn't match their first unopposed week. If the viewers they lost didn't want to peek their heads in for this type of match, they're not coming back for the usual bullshit tag matches full of botches and no selling.*


----------



## RainmakerV2

3venflow said:


> No, episode one and Winter is Coming (Omega vs. Moxley for the title) were more hyped. B&G was also hyped a lot, but not as much as the company's two top men for the world title on TV. What if it turns out tomorrow that the cage match averaged 1.2 and hour one dragged it down?
> 
> Moving the goal posts would be if I said AEW would do 1.3m regularly or something but didn't and then excusing it. In fact, I said all along last year that if they went unopposed they would hit 1m regularly, based on the data of the aforementioned show. And that looks to be true. It won't be an every week thing, but a regular 1m-plus is realistic for them.
> 
> Also, again the key demographic is viewed as the most important thing and they did 0.44, which is up among their best. TNT would take 1.1m/0.42 over 1.3m/0.34, 100%.
> 
> A two-year old product was number one on cable. Downplaying that as being anything but a success is more akin to moving the goal posts. No one expected 1.2m for the first unopposed show this year - their soft 'redebut'. Go to the predictions thread from that week, no one was even in the ball park.



This is the biggest show because anytime you do wargames, you're always going to attract casual and lapsed fans because Wargames is so loved.


----------



## Joe Gill

so dynamite gets a 0.42 in the key demo... raw got 0.52.
If you dont see this for a win for TK you dont understand business. The next TV deal TK signs will be worth hundreds of millions... he started a company from scratch 2 years ago and is now with 20% of the viewership of raw in the key demo.
Personally I dont care how many old geezers are watching. Have you seen the shows that old people watch? Its stuff like CSI, Hannity and 60 minutes. Its almost a good thing that people in their 60s and 70s dont enjoy the same product as younger people....
TNT is thrilled with these numbers... especially when you factor in how little they are paying for the rights


----------



## Geeee

Came into the thread looking for negative spins on being #1 on cable for the night. Leaving satisfied


----------



## RainmakerV2

Joe Gill said:


> so dynamite gets a 0.42 in the key demo... raw got 0.52.
> If you dont see this for a win for TK you dont understand business. The next TV deal TK signs will be worth hundreds of millions... he started a company from scratch 2 years ago and is now with 20% of the viewership of raw in the key demo.
> Personally I dont care how many old geezers are watching. Have you seen the shows that old people watch? Its stuff like CSI, Hannity and 60 minutes. Its almost a good thing that people in their 60s and 70s dont enjoy the same product as younger people....
> TNT is thrilled with these numbers... especially when you factor in how little they are paying for the rights



Who said they werent?


----------



## 3venflow

RainmakerV2 said:


> This is the biggest show because anytime you do wargames, you're always going to attract casual and lapsed fans because Wargames is so loved.


That's subjective. Firstly, it wasn't called War Games (so people not familiar with the product would see 'Blood & Guts', not 'War Games') and secondly, where is the evidence of that? War Games has been almost exclusively a PPV/Network concept, so there's no evidence to tell us it's a bigger deal than Omega vs. Moxley. AEW pushed Omega vs. Moxley as the biggest Dynamite match in history and the show itself as their biggest Dynamite.

WWE hasn't even done War Games on their main brands - why not if it's a guaranteed draw? NXT does it exclusively on Takeovers.

This was only the second time that a War Games themed match has been on free TV. The other time was in 2000 during Russo's WCW era. So how can you guarantee that it's a bigger draw than Kenny Omega vs. Jon Moxley for the AEW World Title? Personally, I'd always choose a match like that and I fall under the 'lapsed fan' category.

This whole 'casuals and lapsed fans' argument is also pretty flawed. There's no guaranteed formula to bring these fans back, even if they have any interest in coming back in the first place. Many of them probably don't even know AEW exists if they stopped following years ago.


----------



## Alright_Mate

A mixture of overhype and negative delusion on here tonight.

It’s good that they went over a million again, but I think it’s fair to say a large chunk of us expected slightly more.

It’s all about maintaining that kinda number, I just don’t see that happening at this moment in time, they are still too inconsistent and make too many mistakes.


----------



## DaSlacker

120,000 less than I expected but number one on cable and number one demo is nothing to be sneezed at.


----------



## Whoanma

3venflow said:


> The rating is in...
> 
> 1,090,000 with 0.42 in the key demo.
> 
> Number one on cable!
> 
> View attachment 100830


Itadake, ICHIBAN!!


----------



## RainmakerV2

3venflow said:


> That's subjective. Firstly, it wasn't called War Games (so people not familiar with the product would see 'Blood & Guts', not 'War Games') and secondly, where is the evidence of that? War Games has been almost exclusively a PPV/Network concept, so there's no evidence to tell us it's a bigger deal than Omega vs. Moxley. AEW pushed Omega vs. Moxley as the biggest Dynamite match in history and the show itself as their biggest Dynamite.
> 
> WWE hasn't even done War Games on their main brands - why not if it's a guaranteed draw? NXT does it exclusively on Takeovers.
> 
> This was only the second time that a War Games themed match has been on free TV. The other time was in 2000 during Russo's WCW era. So how can you guarantee that it's a bigger draw than Kenny Omega vs. Jon Moxley for the AEW World Title? Personally, I'd always choose a match like that and I fall under the 'lapsed fan' category.
> 
> This whole 'casuals and lapsed fans' argument is also pretty flawed. There's no guaranteed formula to bring these fans back, even if they have any interest in coming back in the first place. Many of them probably don't even know AEW exists if they stopped following years ago.



Oh cmon, anyone who even keeps an extremely casual eye on wrestling knew it was wargames, and if you didnt, they had a promotional poster showing it was starting like, 3 weeks ago.


----------



## rbl85

Biggest show ever with QT and Nakazawa ?


----------



## holy

I praised Dynamite's rating when it did 1.2 million viewers for the April 14 episode. Now, I also have to acknowledge that the viewership this week of 1.1 million viewers is a massive disappointment.

On the April 14 episode, the Blood and Guts match had already been announced by then. That was the big match they were building towards. There should have been an increase from that viewership, the show last night should have gotten atleast in the 1.3-1.4 million viewer range.

Also, it seems more clear that the 1.2 million viewership was a combination of Jericho being on Stone Cold's podcast to create more awareness around AEW, combined with it being their first night unopposed against NXT. It was like a restart for Dynamite, kinda like their debut episode.

Looks like next week will be below 1 million again...


----------



## 3venflow

rbl85 said:


> Biggest show ever with QT and Nakazawa ?


Exactly. The undercard was the pits, one of the dullest I've seen on AEW for some time. Even the bigger names featured were paired with non-draws (QT is getting heat from the live crowd, but Factory segments have been losing viewers). If it was _the_ biggest Dynamite, which it wasn't, then they'd have packed the undercard with better matches.

Next week's show has a much better balance, even if it doesn't have the standout cage match. Some of the company's better individual TV draws (Darby, OC, Bucks, Moxley) are in each match... so it might stand a chance of retaining viewers. I wouldn't actually be surprised if it tops this weeks number, though that isn't a guess because these things are highly unpredictable.


----------



## Chan Hung

Seems like there are about 300,00 fans who come and go isnt there?


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Don’t change WF! Number one on cable, “not a good number, horrible, they’re going out of business” lol get a fucking life! Great number


----------



## kyledriver

Good number, I'm betting next week does even better.

Just a stacked card top to bottom.


Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk


----------



## yeahright2

Alright, ratings are in, and so are the results of our little game.
AEW Ratings prediction game

@Chan Hung won, and I think he´s our first double champion? that´s pretty good.
They got their viewers back.. As expected for such a high profile episode.. Now they need to keep them.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

3venflow said:


> The first time in history AEW Dynamite has finished #1 in the Wednesday night cable rankings for the key demographic.


Shush...don’t be logical


----------



## RainmakerV2

3venflow said:


> Exactly. The undercard was the pits, one of the dullest I've seen on AEW for some time. Even the bigger names featured were paired with non-draws (QT is getting heat from the live crowd, but Factory segments have been losing viewers). If it was _the_ biggest Dynamite, which it wasn't, then they'd have packed the undercard with better matches.
> 
> Next week's show has a much better balance, even if it doesn't have the standout cage match. Some of the company's better individual TV draws (Darby, OC, Bucks, Moxley) are in each match... so it might stand a chance of retaining viewers. I wouldn't actually be surprised if it tops this weeks number, though that isn't a guess because these things are highly unpredictable.



QT Marshall was 12-0 this year and has been given tons of TV time and his own stable. If hes the "pits", whos fault is that?


----------



## RubberbandGoat

I love how everyone is magically forgetting that AEW has been around since 2019 and already are getting half of WWE’s audience. That’s huge! Smackdown gets 2 million a week and in a years time Dynamite might hit that. Also people give AEW shit but never mention that NXT still hasn’t hit over a million live unopposed. So why are they off the hook? AEW is doing fantastic in less than two years time


----------



## 3venflow

AEW's performance in the money demo (18-49) was higher than a number of network shows on ABC and CBS. 0.42 is a very significant number in the 18-49. On Tuesday, only the Curse of Oak Island did a better number. AEW did a higher key demo than NBA and Star Wars May the 4th specials.

Only WWE RAW, Curse of Oak Island (by 0.01) and Monday's later NBA game have done a better cable demo than AEW so far this week. FWIW, AEW's male 18-49 number was better than RAW's third hour in the same category, but below hours one and two.

But keep downplaying them by comparing them to a more prosperous era of live TV years ago when ratings were higher across the board.

AEW Dynamite is a legitimate success in the context of 2021 cable TV.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Under 1.1 is bad considering they gave away a pay-per-view caliber match on free TV and couldn't match their first unopposed week. If the viewers they lost didn't want to peek their heads in for this type of match, they're not coming back for the usual bullshit tag matches full of botches and no selling.*


Ok lol


----------



## RubberbandGoat

3venflow said:


> AEW's performance in the money demo (18-49) was higher than a number of network shows on ABC and CBS. 0.42 is a very significant number in the 18-49. On Tuesday, only the Curse of Oak Island did a better number. AEW did a higher key demo than NBA and Star Wars May the 4th specials.
> 
> Only WWE RAW, Curse of Oak Island (by 0.01) and Monday's later NBA game have done a better cable demo than AEW so far this week. FWIW, AEW's male 18-49 number was better than RAW's third hour in the same category, but below hours one and two.
> 
> But keep downplaying them by comparing them to a more prosperous era of live TV years ago when ratings were higher across the board.
> 
> AEW Dynamite is a legitimate success in the context of 2021 cable TV.
> 
> View attachment 100833


You can’t reason with the doomers. Let them be! They have no life and care a lot about ratings for a show because they hate their lives.


----------



## RainmakerV2

RubberbandGoat said:


> I love how everyone is magically forgetting that AEW has been around since 2019 and already are getting half of WWE’s audience. That’s huge! Smackdown gets 2 million a week and in a years time Dynamite might hit that. Also people give AEW shit but never mention that NXT still hasn’t hit over a million live unopposed. So why are they off the hook? AEW is doing fantastic in less than two years time



You're still sitting here trying to compare a show that has guys like Austin Theory and Johnny Gargano in the main event to one with moxley, omega, Jericho, Sting, etc? Jesus dude.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

Prosper said:


> I mean hey 1.0 - 1.2 on cable is a range I'm fine with as long as TNT is happy. And they were happy with far less. That's all that matters to me as a fan because it means they are here to stay for a long time.
> 
> Interested in seeing the late numbers and how many people watched B&G later. Even I couldn't watch live.


I'm pretty sure everything the day of is reflected in the these numbers. I'd be interested to hear their DVR numbers in a couple days though.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

RainmakerV2 said:


> You're still sitting here trying to compare a show that has guys like Austin Theory and Johnny Gargano in the main event to one with moxley, omega, Jericho, Sting, etc? Jesus dude.


You obviously have no idea how TV works. The executives see Number One on Cable and that’s all they care about. They’re number one with a strong demo. All they care about. Yet your opinion is that they failed. Well call TNT and see if they’re happy. I bet they are ecstatic. Jesus dude, go educate yourself and put the Doritos down!


----------



## Kentucky34

RubberbandGoat said:


> I love how everyone is magically forgetting that AEW has been around since 2019 and already are getting half of WWE’s audience. That’s huge! Smackdown gets 2 million a week and in a years time Dynamite might hit that. Also people give AEW shit but never mention that NXT still hasn’t hit over a million live unopposed. So why are they off the hook? AEW is doing fantastic in less than two years time


AEW will never hit 2 million.

They probably won't hit 1.2 million again


----------



## Dark Emperor

Kentucky34 said:


> AEW will never hit 2 million.
> 
> They probably won't hit 1.2 million again


They may hit 2m if they manage to snap up Seth Rollins.


----------



## yeahright2

Dark Emperor said:


> They may hit 2m if they manage to snap up Seth Rollins.


They can have him.. There´s some fast forward segments for me.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Two ways of seeing this:
1. They have a dedicated audience of over a million
2. They pulled all the garbage out and it didn't move their ceiling


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RubberbandGoat said:


> You can’t reason with the doomers. Let them be! They have no life and care a lot about ratings for a show because they hate their lives.


*That explains why you're in this thread doing the exact same thing. *


----------



## RainmakerV2

RubberbandGoat said:


> You obviously have no idea how TV works. The executives see Number One on Cable and that’s all they care about. They’re number one with a strong demo. All they care about. Yet your opinion is that they failed. Well call TNT and see if they’re happy. I bet they are ecstatic. Jesus dude, go educate yourself and put the Doritos down!



When did I say they failed? And why are you allowed to just insult people at will? @Firefromthegods


----------



## Kentucky34

Dark Emperor said:


> They may hit 2m if they manage to snap up Seth Rollins.


Trolling aside.

Seth is who AEW needs to push their ratings into the 1.4-1.5 million range.


----------



## DammitChrist

yeahright2 said:


> They can have him.. There´s some fast forward segments for me.


No, we must have Seth Rollins (or Tyler Black) here too!



BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *That explains why you're in this thread doing the exact same thing. *


Hey, no need to falsely insult him here. He was making a good point.


----------



## Bravesfan3

*1,090,000 viewers, I was correct*



Bravesfan3 said:


> I think they'll go back to 1 million.


But as I continued in that very post:

*After DON, they'll go back to current numbers, which are Wednesday war numbers, which they'll be on same trajectory of ratings during war.

So 800k-900k for now, then end of summer and beyond 600k-700k.

Sports returns during autumn and they'll do 400k-600k average.

Based on nonstop ratings decline from October 2019.

Unless of course they hire a good writer.*


Same trend as the initial decline around show debut:

*October 2, 2019 - 1.409 million viewers* due to initial interest from new viewers upon debut
*October 9, 2019 - 1,140 million viewers* due to rejection of horrible product by initial interest group week prior

Now only 4 weeks later on* October 30, 2019 AEW Dynamite got 759,000 viewers*, 650,000 viewers less than their debut. they lost HALF their audience in less than a month. if you got excited about that initial number and thought they would grow, you were very wrong, this is why you don't jump the gun, Russo said it takes months to see if what you're doing is working.


*April 14, 2021 - 1.219 million viewers* - First AEW show unopposed which is basically a re-debut.
*April 21, 2021 - 1.104 million viewers* - 2nd week AEW unopposed by NXT
*April 28, 2021* - *889,000* *viewers - 3rd week AEW unopposed by NXT.
May 5, 2021 - 1,090,000 viewers

So next week either same number from last week or even lower.*

Now next week the trend will continue, they'll lose viewers again, get a PPV bump then continue decline in ratings if they continue to book this way.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

qntntgood said:


> Really were the joke for nxt audience is almost dead,when in fact aew shares that same audience. if look at the two key demos were in increase actually,happened it same has when two before the drop last week.so I ask were is the growth,because what happens next when the number drops.


sorry, discussions about NXT is over that way


----------



## rbl85

Drug is bad kids


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> Drug is bad kids


drugging kids is worse


----------



## Chrome

Total number of viewers is a little disappointing but being #1 on cable in the 18-49 demo is a definite win.


----------



## Bliss316

barely over million with all that hype thats not good and a clear sign they be under a million next week for sure and ratings will settle back to what they was doing before NXT moved nights.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Kentucky34 said:


> AEW will never hit 2 million.
> 
> They probably won't hit 1.2 million again


 yes they will. You do know that 1 million is only live viewers and not DVR viewers correct? They count that later, then already have half of WWE’s audience. Almost there


----------



## rbl85

Bliss316 said:


> barely over million with all that hype thats not good and a clear sign they be under a million next week for sure and ratings will settle back to what they was doing before NXT moved nights.


Before NXT move night the average audience of AEW was below 800K


----------



## Klitschko

Where is the person that made the "could blood and Guts get 2 million viewers" thread lol.










Not a horrible rating. 1 million is nice and all, but I would be lying if I said I didn't expect at least a 1.2 or 1.3 for this show.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *That explains why you're in this thread doing the exact same thing. *


I come in here for the pathetic reactions. There’s other stuff in the world but keep obsessing about how they’re doing with ratings


----------



## RubberbandGoat

RainmakerV2 said:


> When did I say they failed? And why are you allowed to just insult people at will? @Firefromthegods


Insult? I just said put the Doritos down. Big deal


----------



## Bliss316

rbl85 said:


> Before NXT move night the average audience of AEW was below 800K


which is where there ratings will settle back into.


----------



## rbl85

Bliss316 said:


> which is where there ratings will settle back into.


If in the next 5 weeks they don't have a week below 800k i'm not going to miss you XD


----------



## RainmakerV2

RubberbandGoat said:


> Insult? I just said put the Doritos down. Big deal



Youve said "get a fucking life", "you have no lifes" , "pathetic" and now the doritos thing. Imagine if The Wood would have said that.


----------



## mazzah20

Great number. If your number 1 for the night with just over a million viewers, it means the general cable audience was down last night relatively.

Imagine if next year they got Canelo involved in a match for Cinco De Mayo. How high do you think their rating would be? Near 2m?


----------



## Bravesfan3

RubberbandGoat said:


> Insult? I just said put the Doritos down. Big deal


That's an insult though, I was given a week off for getting frustrated at the lack of thinking in one's argument and made a comment of "I never debated someone so stupid", which was immature, but you're is worse, it's a joke insult, saying he's a dorito eating couch potato.


----------



## Bliss316

rbl85 said:


> If in the next 5 weeks they don't have a week below 800k i'm not going to miss you XD


they will settle back into that in a mouth and next week is sure to be below a million seeing they barely broke a million last night for blood and guts.


----------



## Bravesfan3

RubberbandGoat said:


> put the Doritos down!


Wasn't necessary, be civil, if you feel yourself losing your temper just step back, has helped me.


----------



## Bravesfan3

RainmakerV2 said:


> Youve said "get a fucking life", "you have no lifes" , "pathetic" and now the doritos thing. Imagine if The Wood would have said that.


That's how debates turn personal.


----------



## kingfrass44

Joe Gill said:


> so dynamite gets a 0.42 in the key demo... raw got 0.52.
> If you dont see this for a win for TK you dont understand business. The next TV deal TK signs will be worth hundreds of millions... he started a company from scratch 2 years ago and is now with 20% of the viewership of raw in the key demo.
> Personally I dont care how many old geezers are watching. Have you seen the shows that old people watch? Its stuff like CSI, Hannity and 60 minutes. Its almost a good thing that people in their 60s and 70s dont enjoy the same product as younger people....
> TNT is thrilled with these numbers... especially when you factor in how little they are paying for the rights


You are wrong


----------



## omaroo

kingfrass44 said:


> You are wrong


Very insightful post


----------



## Dark Emperor

mazzah20 said:


> Great number. If your number 1 for the night with just over a million viewers, it means the general cable audience was down last night relatively.
> 
> Imagine if next year they got Canelo involved in a match for Cinco De Mayo. How high do you think their rating would be? Near 2m?


They were not number 1 in viewerships. Its demos. There is shows on the chart with over 2m, but older demographic.


----------



## Dizzie

They killed a lit fans interest in this week's show by having a underwhelming undercard, aew are stuck with their hardcore base until they realise that pushing guys like qt, dark order, oc and scu is not going grab the attention of a broader audience.


----------



## KingofKings1524

Mr316 said:


> Ouch. Not a good number considering all the hype...and it’s only gonna go down from here.





Mr316 said:


> So they officially lost 300k viewers again and they’re gonna lose another 200k in the upcoming weeks. Not good.





Mr316 said:


> These numbers suck. Everyone was expecting atleast 1.2 million. They barely got 1 million despite all the hype for the match.


Why do you even frequent this section? The only thing I’ve ever seen from you is half ass trolling attempts and poorly thought out threads that you hope gets a reaction out of people. You’re like The Wood but with zero substance.


----------



## omaroo

KingofKings1524 said:


> Why do you even frequent this section? The only thing I’ve ever seen from you is half ass trolling attempts and poorly thought out threads that you hope gets a reaction out of people. You’re like The Wood but with zero substance.


He seems more like a troll and someone who wants to see AEWs demise. 

Doesn't really offer balanced arguments. 

Quite sad really.


----------



## DammitChrist

omaroo said:


> He seems more like a troll and someone who wants to see AEWs demise.
> 
> Doesn't really offer balanced arguments.
> 
> Quite sad really.


He’s the same person who felt the need to let everyone know that he’s (obnoxiously) “laughing” multiple times at the botched explosion after it occurred.


----------



## omaroo

DammitChrist said:


> He’s the same person who felt the need to let everyone know that he’s (obnoxiously) laughing multiple times at the botched explosion after it occurred.


Can never understand why haters want AEW fail. 

The wrestling industry desperately needs competition in some way to WWE. 

No one here is saying AEW will ever reach WWEs level is near impossible with how long WWEs brand has been established. 

I for one am happy AEW exists hope its reaches new heights over the years and is around for decades to come.


----------



## RapShepard

__





Showbuzz Basics | Showbuzz Daily







www.showbuzzdaily.com





Here's a ratings basics


----------



## Kentucky34

RubberbandGoat said:


> yes they will. You do know that 1 million is only live viewers and not DVR viewers correct? They count that later, then already have half of WWE’s audience. Almost there


They only draw around 1.5 million with DVR viewers. 

They are not going to grow their audience by 500k. They are more likely to lose 500k viewers by this time next year.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RubberbandGoat said:


> I come in here for the pathetic reactions. There’s other stuff in the world but keep obsessing about how they’re doing with ratings


*No one cares. You're doing this exact same thing all of us are doing in this thread by wasting time discussing ratings and you're no better than anyone in here. It's quite embarrassing that you have a superiority complex over blindly praising a mediocre product.*


----------



## qntntgood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> sorry, discussions about NXT is over that way


Same audience,same story with little to no growth.


----------



## BuckshotLarry

3venflow said:


> If you think those numbers suck, you're not worth debating. The 1.2m rating they did post-NXT was such a shock that no one on here could believe it. TNT issued a press release to celebrate it as if they too were shocked. Moreover, the key demographic remains the most important thing - despite what some people want to believe - and it was one of their best in the past year.
> 
> If you mean a handful of people on a message board is 'everyone' then yeah. But, no. Only TNT's expectations are important and if you think they aren't happy being number one on cable, then you're very naive. They didn't have a single show in the top 150 besides Dynamite (#1), showing the importance of that product to their lineup. It's no wonder they have ordered a second show for this fall.
> 
> Three weeks ago, you said 'anything below 900k' unopposed would be a 'huge failure'. Now over 1m 'sucks' to you. No matter what they do, you're going to continue to move the goal posts and aren't interested in being objective on this topic.
> 
> Also, it's possible that B&G itself propped up the rating from hour one, which was boring last night.


Keeping it real brother


----------



## qntntgood

Dark Emperor said:


> They were not number 1 in viewerships. Its demos. There is shows on the chart with over 2m, but older demographic.


Same with aew's general audience,look 50 pluse and look at the 18 to 49 year old and it tells you the story even meltzer had to admit to it weeks ago.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

qntntgood said:


> Same with aew's general audience,look 50 pluse and look at the 18 to 49 year old and it tells you the story even meltzer had to admit to it weeks ago.


That's wrestlings general audience lol


----------



## DammitChrist

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *No one cares. You're doing this exact same thing all of us are doing in this thread by wasting time discussing ratings and you're no better than anyone in here. It's quite embarrassing that you have a superiority complex over blindly praising a mediocre product.*


It’d be more embarrassing that you’re blind enough to not realize that they’re delivering a fun/good product for plenty of wrestling fans.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

RainmakerV2 said:


> When did I say they failed? And why are you allowed to just insult people at will? @Firefromthegods


That's what ruffled your feathers......sawft


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Bravesfan3 said:


> That's an insult though, I was given a week off for getting frustrated at the lack of thinking in one's argument and made a comment of "I never debated someone so stupid", which was immature, but you're is worse, it's a joke insult, saying he's a dorito eating couch potato.


He didn't actually insult someone where you called someone stupid......pretty simple really.


----------



## taker1986

TNT are ecstatic with these numbers


----------



## qntntgood

$Dolladrew$ said:


> That's wrestlings general audience lol


Hate to say but it's true,wrestling has not grown in three decades partly do to WWE.but Tna also had a chance,and dixie,hogan,Bischoff kind of screwed that up.


----------



## Prosper

Kentucky34 said:


> They only draw around 1.5 million with DVR viewers.
> 
> They are not going to grow their audience by 500k. They are more likely to lose 500k viewers by this time next year.


Lol this guy.

“They only draw around 1.5 million with DVR, they’re not gonna grow their audience by 500K”

Is that supposed to be a bad thing? Is the DVR audience not a part of the overall audience? You make no sense.

Like you’ve seen every show in your lifetime 100% live every time exactly when it was happening or every movie on opening night without fail. If you haven’t realized yet, people have lives outside of being on time every Wednesday night at 8pm in front of their TV with the remote in their hand.



taker1986 said:


> TNT are ecstatic with these numbers
> 
> View attachment 100840


That’s awesome.


----------



## qntntgood

taker1986 said:


> TNT are ecstatic with these numbers
> 
> View attachment 100840


Please Mike Johnson,is an even bigger bullshit artist then meltzer.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

omaroo said:


> Can never understand why haters want AEW fail.
> 
> The wrestling industry desperately needs competition in some way to WWE.
> 
> No one here is saying AEW will ever reach WWEs level is near impossible with how long WWEs brand has been established.
> 
> I for one am happy AEW exists hope its reaches new heights over the years and is around for decades to come.


Seriously.

I mean even if you don't like some of their talent or think Tony Khan is a bad booker, or w.e. having another company around that is willing to pay people competitive money has been an overall net positive for the wrestlers.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

DammitChrist said:


> He’s the same person who felt the need to let everyone know that he’s (obnoxiously) “laughing” multiple times at the botched explosion after it occurred.


Also the same guy talking about how pissed the fans were because of only 1 live match (even though they were told beforehand like more then a week) and AEW was handing out refunds..........a whole 5 refunds LMFAO. 

Guy is an anti AEW guy plain and simple.


----------



## rbl85

Geert Wilders said:


> Some of you man got me scratching my head.
> 
> Anything above 1 million is a win. Last week I believe is a more accurate rating for Dynamite. Nothing special was going on. It was unopposed.
> 
> like @Chan Hung said, 800-850k is likely the hardcore viewers that will watch every week, but with 200-300k watching it occasionally if they have nothing else to do.
> 
> Now what AEW have to do, is turn those 200-300k casuals into hardcores.


I think last week was a bit below the "real number" because of the speech.

I think that the average number will be between 900 and 950K with some shows doing +1M


----------



## 3venflow

qntntgood said:


> Please Mike Johnson,is an even bigger bullshit artist then meltzer.


That's irrelevant because he was just copy and pasting an official press release from TNT on AEW's ratings. It's being posted on all the aggregate wrestling news sites.

Another sign of how good these ratings are in the real world, where cable ratings are dropping across the board year by year. Only on here and in other pockets of the IWC can finishing number one on cable in the money demo be considered anything less than good.

They've carved their niche and now have a consistent, fairly young fan base.


----------



## thorn123

I just wish it would be 1.5 mill. That'd be great. It won't though


----------



## La Parka

rbl85 said:


> Biggest show ever with QT and Nakazawa ?


QT and NT*


----------



## CM Buck

RainmakerV2 said:


> When did I say they failed? And why are you allowed to just insult people at will? @Firefromthegods


If his implying you are fat and eat dorritos you've won.


----------



## Chrome

The "Winter is Coming" Dynamite felt like a much bigger deal than this Dynamite imo.


----------



## Seafort

Bravesfan3 said:


> *1,090,000 viewers, I was correct*
> 
> 
> 
> But as I continued in that very post:
> 
> *After DON, they'll go back to current numbers, which are Wednesday war numbers, which they'll be on same trajectory of ratings during war.
> 
> So 800k-900k for now, then end of summer and beyond 600k-700k.
> 
> Sports returns during autumn and they'll do 400k-600k average.
> 
> Based on nonstop ratings decline from October 2019.
> 
> Unless of course they hire a good writer.*
> 
> 
> Same trend as the initial decline around show debut:
> 
> *October 2, 2019 - 1.409 million viewers* due to initial interest from new viewers upon debut
> *October 9, 2019 - 1,140 million viewers* due to rejection of horrible product by initial interest group week prior
> 
> Now only 4 weeks later on* October 30, 2019 AEW Dynamite got 759,000 viewers*, 650,000 viewers less than their debut. they lost HALF their audience in less than a month. if you got excited about that initial number and thought they would grow, you were very wrong, this is why you don't jump the gun, Russo said it takes months to see if what you're doing is working.
> 
> 
> *April 14, 2021 - 1.219 million viewers* - First AEW show unopposed which is basically a re-debut.
> *April 21, 2021 - 1.104 million viewers* - 2nd week AEW unopposed by NXT
> *April 28, 2021* - *889,000* *viewers - 3rd week AEW unopposed by NXT.
> May 5, 2021 - 1,090,000 viewers
> 
> So next week either same number from last week or even lower.*
> 
> Now next week the trend will continue, they'll lose viewers again, get a PPV bump then continue decline in ratings if they continue to book this way.


You have to account for AEW’s willingness to experiment and drive to grow, versus a WWE with over twenty years of ossified traditions and a certainty that every business practice and booking tradition is not only right, but the only way.

It’s not that AEW will change, but they are far more likely to do so than WWE. In 2021, they have to take risks and experiment. Just like a struggling WWE did in 1997.


----------



## NXT Only

On fire. Love it for those guys. They deserve it.


----------



## NXT Only

Dizzie said:


> They killed a lit fans interest in this week's show by having a underwhelming undercard, aew are stuck with their hardcore base until they realise that pushing guys like qt, dark order, oc and scu is not going grab the attention of a broader audience.


Their hardcore audience deserves to get catered too. Those are the people who support them heavily.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Could have been a better number in terms of how hyped up it was, but eh, a million viewers is still fine. 

Could be worse, could be better sums up this week really.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

I really don't understand the arguments. AEW is at Number fucking 1 in the ratings and on top of that got over a million! That is DAMN good no matter how you cut it.

You just...you just LOVE to see it.


----------



## shandcraig

lets see how many they can hold next week. problem is aew has 1 great show every few weeks and does not give you a reason to tune in every week unless you're us hardcores. still great news and aew is on a path to grow but will take time and they are willing to change. a lot will change in the next year or 2 and i hope they find a popular formula


----------



## Kentucky34

900k with NXT as competition is probably more impressive than 1.1 million without NXT as competition to be honest. 

This episode would have probably drawn around 700-800k if it ran against NXT. 

Unless they sign Bryan they will soon be drawing around 800k unopposed. Then down to 500k this time next year.


----------



## One Shed

Chrome said:


> The "Winter is Coming" Dynamite felt like a much bigger deal than this Dynamite imo.


Because the idea of Blood and Guts was great, but the actual build was piss poor.


----------



## Punkhead

Congrats to AEW being no. 1. This is great, I hope they can keep it up. Also, it's hilarious to see the "can't even get 1 million" crowd suddenly move the goalpost to 2 million and yelling about doom and gloom. Yes, they're definitely are going down if they don't reach some arbitrary number you pulled out of your ass.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Kentucky34 said:


> 900k with NXT as competition is probably more impressive than 1.1 million without NXT as competition to be honest.
> 
> This episode would have probably drawn around 700-800k if it ran against NXT.
> 
> Unless they sign Bryan they will soon be drawing around 800k unopposed. Then down to 500k this time next year.


You wish! But they are growing their audience not losing it. They have a best medium viewership than 2019 and 2020. That is the only fact that matters. The rest, are only lies or suppositions


----------



## zkorejo

Being #1 is actually a big deal. The total number of viewers is good for bragging rights but that's clearly not what makes it #1. The key demo does. If it's #1, it doesn't get any better than that.


----------



## The Wood

taker1986 said:


> TNT are ecstatic with these numbers
> 
> View attachment 100840


TV network puts positive spin on one of its shows. If anything, it highlights that they want more advertisers to jump aboard. That could mean that the show is underperforming for its perceived level within the network.

PR is nothing to brah



BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Seriously.
> 
> I mean even if you don't like some of their talent or think Tony Khan is a bad booker, or w.e. having another company around that is willing to pay people competitive money has been an overall net positive for the wrestlers.


Disagreed. It appears better on a surface level, but it is splitting up an already dwindling audience more and more. It isn’t creating new fans or doing long-term good for the business. 



The Raw Smackdown said:


> I really don't understand the arguments. AEW is at Number fucking 1 in the ratings and on top of that got over a million! That is DAMN good no matter how you cut it.
> 
> You just...you just LOVE to see it.


It wasn’t number 1 in the rankings. It was number 1 in the 18-49 demo. And that isn’t amazing compared to, say, Raw — which is terrible but draws more. 



Punkhead said:


> Congrats to AEW being no. 1. This is great, I hope they can keep it up. Also, it's hilarious to see the "can't even get 1 million" crowd suddenly move the goalpost to 2 million and yelling about doom and gloom. Yes, they're definitely are going down if they don't reach some arbitrary number you pulled out of your ass.


Does that crowd really exist? I’ve seen reasonable people say they won’t likely see 1 million consistently and sustainably, but I don’t think anyone has ever discounted the possibility of them having the rare spike.


----------



## TD Stinger

Q1: Kenny Omega & Michael Nakazawa vs. Jon Moxley & Eddie Kingston, plus the Young Bucks & Doc Gallows & Karl Anderson post-match attack did 1,093,000 viewers and 551,000 in 18-49.

Q2: Cody Rhodes vs. QT Marshall did 1,014,000 viewers and 524,000 in 18-49.

Q3: Rhodes vs. Marshall, the post-match, a vignette with Ethan Page, Scorpio Sky and Darby Allin and Britt Baker vs. Julia Hart did 1,081,000 viewers and 547,000 in 18-49. This was the high point with women 35-49.

Q4, Taz’s interview on Christian and the SCU vs. Jurassic Express vs. Acclaimed vs. Brian Pillman Jr. & Griff Garrison tag title match for a title shot did 983,000 viewers and 487,000 in 18-49.

Q5 Kenny Omega and Orange Cassidy segment, the Miro interview and the Moxley vs. Yuji Nagata package did 1,031,000 viewers and 517,000 in 18-49.

Q6 Blood and Guts did 1,144,000 viewers and 567,000 in 18-49. This was the high point with women 18-34.

Q7: Blood and Guts did 1,156,000 viewers and 572,000 in 18-49.

Q8: Blood and Guts did 1,210,000 viewers and 614,000 in 18-49. This was the high point with males 18-34 and males 35-49, total viewers and overall 18-49.


----------



## LongPig666

Great numbers and deservedly so. Hopefully the upward trend (in all areas of the demo) will continue as the quality of their shows gets better.


----------



## .christopher.

I remember when WWEs ratings started sinking heavily and WWE acolytes were grasping at straws in their ratings thread to put a positive spin on shit.

They ain't got nothing on the AEW acolytes, though. These guys are desperate as all hell.


----------



## The Wood

We know it can literally do better. We’ve seen it do better. Opposed. The potential audience just doesn’t care or even actively doesn’t like it. That’s not even a troll. That’s literally what going from 1.4 million opposed by other wrestling to 1 million for a massively hyped unopposed show means. Those people didn’t all cut cable.

And yes, WWE also misses the mark too. That’s why their show featuring The Rock didn’t retain viewers either. But it’s also keeping its head above water, with a much higher overall number.

There’s a difference between you liking AEW and denying that this product just doesn’t appeal to that many wrestling fans.


----------



## 3venflow

As expected, the first hour pulled the overall rating down a bit and the B&G cage match itself did well, gradually improving viewership and the key demo.

First hour: 1.04m
Second hour: 1.17m

Hopefully next week's loaded card can continue the 1m-plus successes.


----------



## Garty

The Wood said:


> We know it can literally do better. We’ve seen it do better. Opposed. The potential audience just doesn’t care or even actively doesn’t like it. That’s not even a troll. That’s literally what going from 1.4 million opposed by other wrestling to 1 million for a massively hyped unopposed show means. Those people didn’t all cut cable.
> 
> And yes, WWE also misses the mark too. That’s why their show featuring The Rock didn’t retain viewers either. But it’s also keeping its head above water, with a much higher overall number.
> 
> There’s a difference between you liking AEW and denying that this product just doesn’t appeal to that many wrestling fans.


You spew the same shit every week Woody. "It's not popular". "It's not retaining". "It's not growing". "They can do better". "(insert viewership # here) is not that great overall". "The demos don't matter". "It doesn't appeal to lapsed wrestling fans". Etc. etc. You're ALWAYS only one side of the coin.

You can't admit that a positive, just may be an actual positive. You can't admit they have a fanbase of roughly 1 million (+) viewers, without including the "lapsed fan" talking-point. You can't admit they have been and are still successful, without comparing it to current day WWE ratings. Etc. Etc.

When are you going to quit Woody? Nobody is buying your bullshit anymore, this far into AEW's existence. You said they would fail. That they were a sinking ship. You said talent (home-grown and veteran) would leave for WWE. You thought that if they followed Cornette's advice, they'd somehow be more successful. There is so much of your "facts" that have been proven wrong, time and time again. Not only by the users of this board, but the actual stats and facts that have proven whatever you've come up this week, say otherwise. Take the L and move on my man. It's really time.

To re-imagine a famous quote... AEW is, was and forever will be, not for you.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Two Sheds said:


> Because the idea of Blood and Guts was great, but the actual build was piss poor.


*I never understand the logic behind people saying the match was good, so all the complaints about the build were invalid. Uh no, the build still sucked. *


----------



## 3venflow

AEW's success is spreading elsewhere too. They really need to get a TV deal in India. WWE does huge numbers there.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1390625604869914633


----------



## Not Lying

TD Stinger said:


> Q1: Kenny Omega & Michael Nakazawa vs. Jon Moxley & Eddie Kingston, plus the Young Bucks & Doc Gallows & Karl Anderson post-match attack did 1,093,000 viewers and 551,000 in 18-49.
> 
> Q2: Cody Rhodes vs. QT Marshall did 1,014,000 viewers and 524,000 in 18-49.
> 
> Q3: Rhodes vs. Marshall, the post-match, a vignette with Ethan Page, Scorpio Sky and Darby Allin and Britt Baker vs. Julia Hart did 1,081,000 viewers and 547,000 in 18-49. This was the high point with women 35-49.
> 
> Q4, Taz’s interview on Christian and the SCU vs. Jurassic Express vs. Acclaimed vs. Brian Pillman Jr. & Griff Garrison tag title match for a title shot did 983,000 viewers and 487,000 in 18-49.
> 
> Q5 Kenny Omega and Orange Cassidy segment, the Miro interview and the Moxley vs. Yuji Nagata package did 1,031,000 viewers and 517,000 in 18-49.
> 
> Q6 Blood and Guts did 1,144,000 viewers and 567,000 in 18-49. This was the high point with women 18-34.
> 
> Q7: Blood and Guts did 1,156,000 viewers and 572,000 in 18-49.
> 
> Q8: Blood and Guts did 1,210,000 viewers and 614,000 in 18-49. This was the high point with males 18-34 and males 35-49, total viewers and overall 18-49.


Nice. Great to see the last 4 Quarters consistently gain viewers. Shows the importance of bulding towards your TV main event.

Now if they could have filled the the first hour with matches that didn't involve Nakazawa, QT, and a tag-team clucksterfuck, maybe they could have +100K.


----------



## One Shed

TD Stinger said:


> Q6 Blood and Guts did 1,144,000 viewers and 567,000 in 18-49. This was the high point with women 18-34.


But wrestling expert Uncle Dave said women get turned off by blood.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

TD Stinger said:


> Q1: Kenny Omega & Michael Nakazawa vs. Jon Moxley & Eddie Kingston, plus the Young Bucks & Doc Gallows & Karl Anderson post-match attack did 1,093,000 viewers and 551,000 in 18-49.
> 
> Q2: Cody Rhodes vs. QT Marshall did 1,014,000 viewers and 524,000 in 18-49.
> 
> Q3: Rhodes vs. Marshall, the post-match, a vignette with Ethan Page, Scorpio Sky and Darby Allin and Britt Baker vs. Julia Hart did 1,081,000 viewers and 547,000 in 18-49. This was the high point with women 35-49.
> 
> Q4, Taz’s interview on Christian and the SCU vs. Jurassic Express vs. Acclaimed vs. Brian Pillman Jr. & Griff Garrison tag title match for a title shot did 983,000 viewers and 487,000 in 18-49.
> 
> Q5 Kenny Omega and Orange Cassidy segment, the Miro interview and the Moxley vs. Yuji Nagata package did 1,031,000 viewers and 517,000 in 18-49.
> 
> Q6 Blood and Guts did 1,144,000 viewers and 567,000 in 18-49. This was the high point with women 18-34.
> 
> Q7: Blood and Guts did 1,156,000 viewers and 572,000 in 18-49.
> 
> Q8: Blood and Guts did 1,210,000 viewers and 614,000 in 18-49. This was the high point with males 18-34 and males 35-49, total viewers and overall 18-49.


*Tell me again how women don't draw when Britt Baker saved the show from the massive Cody drop and 100,000 people tuned out after her match. It's also good to see the actual Blood and Guts match did indeed hit 1.2. Hopefully management gets the memo that we aren't interested in Cody's bullshit.*


----------



## 3venflow

Two Sheds said:


> But wrestling expert Uncle Dave said women get turned off by blood.


As a whole though, young females are a point of concern for AEW.

They gained in every demo vs. the last four week median except those. So something isn't clicking with young girls/women as opposed to younger males.

Maybe the show needs more Hook.

P18-49 +20%
F18-49 +13%
M18-49 +25%
P18-34 +15%
*F12-34 -26%*
M12-34 +47%
P25-54 +20%
P50+ +1%
P2+ +9%


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> As a whole though, young females are a point of concern for AEW.
> 
> They gained in every demo vs. the last four week median except those. So something isn't clicking with young girls/women as opposed to younger males.
> 
> Maybe the show needs more Hook.
> 
> P18-49 +20%
> F18-49 +13%
> M18-49 +25%
> P18-34 +15%
> *F12-34 -26%*
> M12-34 +47%
> P25-54 +20%
> P50+ +1%
> P2+ +9%


*Shirtless Hook* according to some of the group chats I'm in. Cougars enjoy his segments too.*


----------



## Alright_Mate

Michael Nakazawa is a bigger draw than Orange Cassidy.

I thoroughly believe an intergender baby oil match with Nakazawa vs Conti would see AEW hit 2 million.


----------



## Joe Gill

3venflow said:


> AEW's success is spreading elsewhere too. They really need to get a TV deal in India. WWE does huge numbers there.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1390625604869914633


getting 160000k in canada is the equivalent of getting 1.6 million viewers in the states on a per capita basis. Canada has always had more internet/indy/smart fans than the us per capita so im not surprised by those number.
I dont think people realize how crucial the key 18-49 demo is in business. Not just for advertisers...but for the company itself. How many seniors are going to buy aew video games, t shirts and action figures? how many are going to go on roadtrips to watch aew live events and watch highlites on youtube? The fact that AEW is nearly as popular as WWE with younger people is a huge win for AEW. Im not a huge fan of the product... i think the booking is horrible and execution is weak...but you cant deny the tv success of AEW. I am still a believer that at some point in the next year or two AEW will surpass RAW in the 18-49 demo.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

3venflow said:


> AEW's success is spreading elsewhere too. They really need to get a TV deal in India. WWE does huge numbers there.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1390625604869914633


I'm not big on the business side of things - I wonder when and how they go about monetizing these international markets. I have a hunch that there are good numbers of fans in a few countries outside of the US. Good to see


----------



## DammitChrist

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Tell me again how women don't draw when Britt Baker saved the show from the massive Cody drop and 100,000 people tuned out after her match. It's also good to see the actual Blood and Guts match did indeed hit 1.2. Hopefully management gets the memo that we aren't interested in Cody's bullshit.*


You’re seriously going to be blind enough to blame Cody Rhodes for that “massive” drop when his match gradually increased viewers by the end, AND when his segment wasn’t even the lowest watched segment on the show :joy

Hell, if you exclude the opening tag match, no segment on the show topped the 2nd half of Cody’s match (along with the few other segments afterwards) in viewership until the Blood and Guts main-event. 

This is basically the definition of picking and choosing who to blame for any dips in the ratings due to your dislike/hatred of certain wrestlers like Cody.


----------



## MEMS

Find it so odd when fans care about the demos. Unless you're selling advertising for TNT, who the hell cares where the viewers are coming from. 

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk


----------



## yeahright2

MEMS said:


> Find it so odd when fans care about the demos. Unless you're selling advertising for TNT, who the hell cares where the viewers are coming from.
> 
> Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk


Yep. As a fan you should be concerned about the number of fans, not a demo.
Losing fans means it´s not as popular as it could be, and they´re doing something wrong, while gaining fans means they´re doing something right.
If you´re the owner you´re interested in a demo because of merch sales, and if you´re the network you´re interested in demos because of advertising money. But I don´t think anyone of us is either a TNT executive, or Tony Khan under an alias..


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

yeahright2 said:


> Yep. As a fan you should be concerned about the number of fans, not a demo.
> Losing fans means it´s not as popular as it could be, and they´re doing something wrong, while gaining fans means they´re doing something right.
> If you´re the owner you´re interested in a demo because of merch sales, and if you´re the network you´re interested in demos because of advertising money. But I don´t think anyone of us is either a TNT executive, or Tony Khan under an alias..


*Wouldn't be surprised if Tony Khan pays certain clowns to spread propaganda on reddit, Twitter, forums, etc. with the way they defend him.*


----------



## rbl85

yeahright2 said:


> Yep. As a fan you should be concerned about the number of fans, not a demo.
> Losing fans means it´s not as popular as it could be, and they´re doing something wrong, while gaining fans means they´re doing something right.
> If you´re the owner you´re interested in a demo because of merch sales, and if you´re the network you´re interested in demos because of advertising money. But I don´t think anyone of us is either a TNT executive, or Tony Khan under an alias..


As fans we shouldn't give a fuck about the number of viewers or the demo, that's not our problem.


----------



## yeahright2

rbl85 said:


> As fans we shouldn't give a fuck about the number of viewers or the demo, that's not our problem.


Not unless the viewers gets so low the show is in danger of being cancelled. AEW is not there yet though.
And as I said, we can use the number as an indicator about their appeal to a larger fanbase, not just the hardcore fans who will watch no matter what.


----------



## yeahright2

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Wouldn't be surprised if Tony Khan pays certain clowns to spread propaganda on reddit, Twitter, forums, etc. with the way they defend him.*


WWE has a crew of people monitoring social media, message boards, forums etc.. Tony has a company that specializes in sports analytics.. I think he has people working on it


----------



## rbl85

yeahright2 said:


> Not unless the viewers gets so low the show is in danger of being cancelled. AEW is not there yet though.
> And as I said, we can use the number as an indicator about their appeal to a larger fanbase, not just the hardcore fans who will watch no matter what.


Look none of us here know how those ratings work, what the networks wants, care about, etc...

Not too long ago someone posted a video about someone who knows waaaaaaaaaaay more things than us about ratings.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Fantastic number for AEW. #1 on Wed's nights in the key demo. And that was also on May 5th, where younger people will usually be out partying. TNT has to be ecstatic. They got the #1 show on Weds. 

To compare, if you think it's easy to put any wrestling show on TV and get a good demo - NXT didn't chart in the top 50 most weeks. AEW is #1.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

yeahright2 said:


> WWE has a crew of people monitoring social media, message boards, forums etc.. Tony has a company that specializes in sports analytics.. I think he has people working on it


*Vince McMahon himself used to be in AOL chat rooms reading comments in the '90s, lol. Do you remember Byte This when smart fans used to call into the show and have real conversations about the business with Vince McMahon, JR, and Russo?*


----------



## rbl85

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Tell me again how women don't draw when Britt Baker saved the show from the massive Cody drop and 100,000 people tuned out after her match. It's also good to see the actual Blood and Guts match did indeed hit 1.2. Hopefully management gets the memo that we aren't interested in Cody's bullshit.*


"Britt Baker saved the show" XD XD XD XD

Hey her match lasted 2-3mins, in that quarter it's the Darby segment who was way longer.

edit : Cody time of appearance in the Q4 is the same than Britt XD


----------



## DammitChrist

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Wouldn't be surprised if Tony Khan pays certain clowns to spread propaganda on reddit, Twitter, forums, etc. with the way they defend him.*


Well, since you’re the one who brought up the term here, wouldn’t the actual “clowns” be those who continue to pretend like the product is “awful” and who shamelessly plays doom-and-gloom over the company “failing” soon?

I’d say that’d be a much more accurate assessment over that questionable (but false) assumption that you made here.


----------



## yeahright2

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Vince McMahon himself used to be in AOL chat rooms reading comments in the '90s, lol. Do you remember Byte This when smart fans used to call into the show and have real conversations about the business with Vince McMahon, JR, and Russo?*


Nope.. Can´t remember the "Byte this".. Sounds like an interesting concept -Imagine "Smart fans" today having conversations with Vince or his creative team.. Or Tony Khan


----------



## NathanMayberry

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Wouldn't be surprised if Tony Khan pays certain clowns to spread propaganda on reddit, Twitter, forums, etc. with the way they defend him.*


He absolutely does.. 


Especially on reddit. SquaredCircle


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

yeahright2 said:


> Nope.. Can´t remember the "Byte this".. Sounds like an interesting concept -Imagine "Smart fans" today having conversations with Vince or his creative team.. Or Tony Khan


*My number would definitely be blocked from the Tony Khan hotline 🤣

Edit: my bad, the 90's show was Livewire and the 2000's show was Byte This*





*



*


----------



## Extremelyunderrated

Horrible rating. Looks like the only draw they have is a retired boxer named Tyson


----------



## The Wood

Garty said:


> You spew the same shit every week Woody. "It's not popular". "It's not retaining". "It's not growing". "They can do better". "(insert viewership # here) is not that great overall". "The demos don't matter". "It doesn't appeal to lapsed wrestling fans". Etc. etc. You're ALWAYS only one side of the coin.
> 
> You can't admit that a positive, just may be an actual positive. You can't admit they have a fanbase of roughly 1 million (+) viewers, without including the "lapsed fan" talking-point. You can't admit they have been and are still successful, without comparing it to current day WWE ratings. Etc. Etc.
> 
> When are you going to quit Woody? Nobody is buying your bullshit anymore, this far into AEW's existence. You said they would fail. That they were a sinking ship. You said talent (home-grown and veteran) would leave for WWE. You thought that if they followed Cornette's advice, they'd somehow be more successful. There is so much of your "facts" that have been proven wrong, time and time again. Not only by the users of this board, but the actual stats and facts that have proven whatever you've come up this week, say otherwise. Take the L and move on my man. It's really time.
> 
> To re-imagine a famous quote... AEW is, was and forever will be, not for you.


How about you attack the points and not me? Instead of saying “you can’t help but bring it up?” maybe address it as a point, instead of having an immature meltdown? I bring up these things — get this — because they’re true. They’re constantly ignored on here, because some types of fans get very uncomfortable with logic, and they’ve never been retorted, but sure — prove this weird side that has an obsession with me as completely unreasonable. 



rbl85 said:


> As fans we shouldn't give a fuck about the number of viewers or the demo, that's not our problem.


That’s not up to you. Fans can give a fuck about whatever they want to.


----------



## DaSlacker

rbl85 said:


> As fans we shouldn't give a fuck about the number of viewers or the demo, that's not our problem.


The number of people watching linear television will never give a clear indication either of the number of followers. People are consuming their entertainment in many different ways. 

I watch AEW but never show up in the official statistics because I don't watch it via traditional television or FiteTV.


----------



## Kishido

Very good rating but the show wasn't that good


----------



## The Wood

DaSlacker said:


> The number of people watching linear television will never give a clear indication either of the number of followers. People are consuming their entertainment in many different ways.
> 
> I watch AEW but never show up in the official statistics because I don't watch it via traditional television or FiteTV.


That can be said for all properties though. Raw’s ratings nowhere near capture the entire audience for WWE programming. It’s no more true for AEW than anyone else.


----------



## DaSlacker

The Wood said:


> That can be said for all properties though. Raw’s ratings nowhere near capture the entire audience for WWE programming. It’s no more true for AEW than anyone else.


Absolutely. I really should have mentioned WWE because of it probably having more younger hidden fans (i.e pre teens) than AEW does. The young kids and young adults who follow wrestling are least likely to consume a whole two hours with ads or on a traditional platform. Theoretically the young adults would skew towards AEW. The question is how many hidden wrestling fans in that 13-30 bracket exist?

Digressing, but personally I just judge how healthy a wrestling promotion is by the budget. If that drops then they are on shaky ground. Like when WWF started looking bad in 1993-1996. Or WCW in 2000-2001. Or TNA in 2013. When AEW is visually poor then the writing is on the wall. At present I think it looks fantastic, even if they make a lot of schoolboy errors in terms of production lol.


----------



## The Wood

DaSlacker said:


> Absolutely. I really should have mentioned WWE because of it probably having more younger hidden fans (i.e pre teens) than AEW does. The young kids and young adults who follow wrestling are least likely to consume a whole two hours with ads or on a traditional platform. Theoretically the young adults would skew towards AEW. The question is how many hidden wrestling fans in that 13-30 bracket exist?
> 
> Digressing, but personally I just judge how healthy a wrestling promotion is by the budget. If that drops then they are on shaky ground. Like when WWF started looking bad in 1993-1996. Or WCW in 2000-2001. Or TNA in 2013. When AEW is visually poor then the writing is on the wall. At present I think it looks fantastic, even if they make a lot of schoolboy errors in terms of production lol.


Agreed. I wonder how many younger fans even have access to cable in 2021? The visual metric is a pretty good indicator, to be honest.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

yeahright2 said:


> Nope.. Can´t remember the "Byte this".. Sounds like an interesting concept -Imagine "Smart fans" today having conversations with Vince or his creative team.. Or Tony Khan


Well, it's not the creative team, but they do have post-shows on youtube were Schiavone and some of the talent take questions from the chat and Tony does fairly frequent interviews on Busted Open, WOR and even some smaller "fan" podcasts. Pretty interesting getting to hear from the owner of the company.


----------



## 3venflow

Joe Gill said:


> getting 160000k in canada is the equivalent of getting 1.6 million viewers in the states on a per capita basis. Canada has always had more internet/indy/smart fans than the us per capita so im not surprised by those number.


Is Smackdown behind a pay TV wall in Canada or did AEW beat them on equal ground this week? They often top RAW/Smackdown/NXT live show numbers combined here in the UK, but WWE is on BT Sport (which costs) and AEW is on ITV4 (free-to-air fourth channel of ITV) on a two-night delay.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

3venflow said:


> Is Smackdown behind a pay TV wall in Canada or did AEW beat them on equal ground this week? They often top RAW/Smackdown/NXT live show numbers combined here in the UK, but WWE is on BT Sport (which costs) and AEW is on ITV4 (free-to-air fourth channel of ITV) on a two-night delay.


They're both on cable channels that you have to pay for but I think they generally come with most basic packages. Raw and Smackdown are on Sportsnet 360 and AEW is on TSN 2 which I believe are fairly comparable in terms of reach, not certain though.


----------



## Klitschko

You know, I love their specials, but they could really do with making them feel like a mini ppv. Blood and Guts would have had a much higher viewership probably if we got next week's card combined with the Blood and Guts match this week. Instead they relied on one match and think that people will stay through a QT, or a Nakazawa match.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Klitschko said:


> You know, I love their specials, but they could really do with making them feel like a mini ppv. Blood and Guts would have had a much higher viewership probably if we got next week's card combined with the Blood and Guts match this week. Instead they relied on one match and think that people will stay through a QT, or a Nakazawa match.


*I think this is the right play because they would have been in a worse situation if they had a light card to follow it up. *


----------



## yeahright2

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Well, it's not the creative team, but they do have post-shows on youtube were Schiavone and some of the talent take questions from the chat and Tony does fairly frequent interviews on Busted Open, WOR and even some smaller "fan" podcasts. Pretty interesting getting to hear from the owner of the company.


I know all that. And I´m not saying it´s a bad thing if you want to get a feeling of knowing these people.. But it could be fun to hear unfiltered conversations between Tony and the "smart" fans today instead of the more controlled podcasts where the topics are discussed before recording.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

yeahright2 said:


> I know all that. And I´m not saying it´s a bad thing if you want to get a feeling of knowing these people.. But it could be fun to hear unfiltered conversations between Tony and the "smart" fans today instead of the more controlled podcasts where the topics are discussed before recording.


Would be interesting for sure, but even then you'd have to have some kind of vetting of questions. If it was completely unfiltered there'd be half of people heaping praise, half of people trolling, talking shit and memeing and maybe a handful of actually interesting questions.

The thing I've enjoyed about the podcasts, even though they're controlled and of course he's there to do a certain amount of promotion, a lot of times they're pretty long-form and they tend to stray off in a lot of different directions -- but one thing that comes across in all of them is his genuine enthusiasm and love for wrestling along with a decent amount of serious business planning. 

A lot of people just wanna call him a money mark because of his enthusiasm, knowledge of and love for wrestling, but beyond that the guy has some pretty clear goals in mind to make AEW a serious money making enterprise. This guy is working to broker tv deals around the world, has an amazing team working on merchandising: the t-shirts, the action figures, the video game. Another TV show in the works, cross promotion, a reality tv show with Cody and Brandi, training camps, streaming services. 

It's certainly a far cry from the rather opaque public front that WWE presents, a lot of times the only time you'll get to hear Vince these days is on the quarterly investors calls -- to hear an owner of an active wrestling promotion be as open as Tony Khan is, is kind of refreshing.


----------



## CM Buck

Garty said:


> You spew the same shit every week Woody. "It's not popular". "It's not retaining". "It's not growing". "They can do better". "(insert viewership # here) is not that great overall". "The demos don't matter". "It doesn't appeal to lapsed wrestling fans". Etc. etc. You're ALWAYS only one side of the coin.
> 
> You can't admit that a positive, just may be an actual positive. You can't admit they have a fanbase of roughly 1 million (+) viewers, without including the "lapsed fan" talking-point. You can't admit they have been and are still successful, without comparing it to current day WWE ratings. Etc. Etc.
> 
> When are you going to quit Woody? Nobody is buying your bullshit anymore, this far into AEW's existence. You said they would fail. That they were a sinking ship. You said talent (home-grown and veteran) would leave for WWE. You thought that if they followed Cornette's advice, they'd somehow be more successful. There is so much of your "facts" that have been proven wrong, time and time again. Not only by the users of this board, but the actual stats and facts that have proven whatever you've come up this week, say otherwise. Take the L and move on my man. It's really time.
> 
> To re-imagine a famous quote... AEW is, was and forever will be, not for you.


Okay I'm putting this to bed now 

@The Wood do you believe or have you ever believed that aew will close its doors? Do you want AEW to fail simply to troll its fans? Are you able to objectively praise AEW if they do good or are you focused only on their failures? Do you out right hate aew or are you just disappointed in the same way that star wars fans hate the prequels?


----------



## The Wood

Firefromthegods said:


> Okay I'm putting this to bed now
> 
> @The Wood do you believe or have you ever believed that aew will close its doors? Do you want AEW to fail simply to troll its fans? Are you able to objectively praise AEW if they do good or are you focused only on their failures? Do you out right hate aew or are you just disappointed in the same way that star wars fans hate the prequels?


No, I have not believed that AEW will close its doors. The Khans have enough money to meet it running for as long as they want to. I don’t want AEW to fail to simply troll its fans. There being no alternative to the WWE since 1998, really, has been one of the worst things in wrestling. I believe I can praise AEW, although I don’t claim to hold the objective key to that. I may have a higher standard of quality than other people who think that what they currently do is already good. I’m disappointed in them. I’d say it’s to the point where I don’t expect them to try and change, but giving up on wrestling when you’re a fan is hard.


----------



## CM Buck

The Wood said:


> No, I have not believed that AEW will close its doors. The Khans have enough money to meet it running for as long as they want to. I don’t want AEW to fail to simply troll its fans. There being no alternative to the WWE since 1998, really, has been one of the worst things in wrestling. I believe I can praise AEW, although I don’t claim to hold the objective key to that. I may have a higher standard of quality than other people who think that what they currently do is already good. I’m disappointed in them. I’d say it’s to the point where I don’t expect them to try and change, but giving up on wrestling when you’re a fan is hard.


@Garty There horse is dead. Argue the weekly ratings or whatever the fuck you two need to do but you are not allowed to argue overall aew points with each other anymore.

Weekly skirmishes related the episodes of dynamite or the ppvs only.

Im sick of this CC AAA Feud


----------



## Randy Lahey

I'd love to know how Australia has produced the #1 WWE fan in TheWood. Why the fuck would someone in Australia give 2 shits about WWE? Or AEW for that matter? I am an American, I have no clue what is on Australian TV. Nor do I care.

It's obvious the Aussie trolls are using VPNs to pretend they are from there. No doubt they are all huddled together in Stamford CT. My advice is Vince needs to fire all you people. You aren't helping the situation.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Punkhead said:


> Q3: Rhodes vs. Marshall, the post-match, a vignette with Ethan Page, Scorpio Sky and Darby Allin and Britt Baker vs. Julia Hart did 1,081,000 viewers and 547,000 in 18-49. This was the high point with women 35-49.


Britt Baker even in a squash match where she doesn't even cut a promo is still a huge draw. After she gets the title at DON, they need to put whatever program she does in the top ratings spot. I think she's more over than most of the things AEW does.


----------



## CM Buck

Randy Lahey said:


> I'd love to know how Australia has produced the #1 WWE fan in TheWood. Why the fuck would someone in Australia give 2 shits about WWE? Or AEW for that matter? I am an American, I have no clue what is on Australian TV. Nor do I care.
> 
> It's obvious the Aussie trolls are using VPNs to pretend they are from there. No doubt they are all huddled together in Stamford CT. My advice is Vince needs to fire all you people. You aren't helping the situation.


Do. Not. Bait.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Firefromthegods said:


> Do. Not. Bait.


It's not baiting. Quit pretending you're from Australia. Or lets actually see an honest account of how someone in Australia cares about what is on American television.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*@bdon I didn't know you wrote articles for Deadspin:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1390442263642214402*


----------



## ProjectGargano

Randy Lahey said:


> It's not baiting. Quit pretending you're from Australia. Or lets actually see an honest account of how someone in Australia cares about what is on American television.


What? That makes no sense, why can't a person from another country care about wrestling?


----------



## CM Buck

Randy Lahey said:


> It's not baiting. Quit pretending you're from Australia. Or lets actually see an honest account of how someone in Australia cares about what is on American television.


You just talked yourself into a week for being a moron


----------



## Garty

Firefromthegods said:


> @Garty There horse is dead. Argue the weekly ratings or whatever the fuck you two need to do but you are not allowed to argue overall aew points with each other anymore.
> 
> Weekly skirmishes related the episodes of dynamite or the ppvs only.
> 
> Im sick of this CC AAA Feud


I can create another thread in Rants with all of the inconsistencies and corrections he's made, but it's much too time consuming. There is A LOT of stuff to go through. Besides, he'd call me a stalker again, but how else can you prove him wrong, if you can't go back into his post history? I'm not the one always asking for "evidence". If I can only talk about ratings, here's a few quotes related to ratings I've read:

_Also, for an “out of touch old man who yells at clouds,” he’s been eerily right about everything in AEW so far. It’s actually been the children that are wrong (declining overall viewership, awful PPV retention rates). Only thing really holding for AEW so far is the 18-39 demo, which is good, but potentially temporary, which Cornette also predicted (“the kids will like it for a bit” was his line, paraphrased)._ *Said on November 6th 2019, a whopping 35 days after AEW launched on TNT.*

_AEW has lost almost half its viewership and has a fraction of the audience of at least two other wrestling shows. Is it making money? _*Said on November 10th 2019.*

_We’ll see who is out of touch come this time next year (provided the writing isn’t on the wall even earlier). _*Said on November 10th 2019.*

_That doesn't mean it's "hot" or "popular." NWA losing YouTube viewers has nothing to do with AEW losing theirs -- especially when the argument from AEW apologists is that they are not only good, but connecting. They're not. You can say that NWA is not, and that's fine. It's not my position that it is. You've made that up. _*Said on November 11th 2019.*

_The numbers are doing fine for the moment. But they keep dropping, pretty sharply, and we are less than two months in. Some people look to the future instead of seeing the start of a dip and thinking “I’m sure it’s going to be fine.” Please give me some real data I am ignoring. You keep saying this, yet the next thing out of your mouth is the assertion that TNT does not care about viewership, only the demo rating. That is pretty bold. _*Said on November 5th 2019.*

_Yes, demo ratings are important, but they are not the be-all, end-all. Being on cable, being wrestling, its overall viewership, new media and competition are going to affect those numbers. Anyone saying “the demo rating is good, therefore they’ve got nothing to worry about” are making a lot of archaic and short-sighted assumptions as we approach 2020. _*Said on November 5th 2019.*

All of the above, was said within the first month of AEW on TNT's existence.  There are other posts like, _"Darby and OC will never draw viewers", _but don't take my word for it because I'm the one that "can't address the issues and/or stay on topic".

If this doesn't show that his bias and utter hatred has been there since day one (and every day since), then I really need to re-educate myself on the meanings of phrases like, "all the time", "says the same things", "never says anything positive", etc.


----------



## CM Buck

Garty said:


> I can create another thread in Rants with all of the inconsistencies and corrections he's made, but it's much too time consuming. There is A LOT of stuff to go through. Besides, he'd call me a stalker again, but how else can you prove him wrong, if you can't go back into his post history? I'm not the one always asking for "evidence". If I can only talk about ratings, here's a few quotes related to ratings I've read:
> 
> _Also, for an “out of touch old man who yells at clouds,” he’s been eerily right about everything in AEW so far. It’s actually been the children that are wrong (declining overall viewership, awful PPV retention rates). Only thing really holding for AEW so far is the 18-39 demo, which is good, but potentially temporary, which Cornette also predicted (“the kids will like it for a bit” was his line, paraphrased)._ *Said on November 6th 2019, a whopping 35 days after AEW launched on TNT.*
> 
> _AEW has lost almost half its viewership and has a fraction of the audience of at least two other wrestling shows. Is it making money? _*Said on November 10th 2019.*
> 
> _We’ll see who is out of touch come this time next year (provided the writing isn’t on the wall even earlier). _*Said on November 10th 2019.*
> 
> _That doesn't mean it's "hot" or "popular." NWA losing YouTube viewers has nothing to do with AEW losing theirs -- especially when the argument from AEW apologists is that they are not only good, but connecting. They're not. You can say that NWA is not, and that's fine. It's not my position that it is. You've made that up. _*Said on November 11th 2019.*
> 
> _The numbers are doing fine for the moment. But they keep dropping, pretty sharply, and we are less than two months in. Some people look to the future instead of seeing the start of a dip and thinking “I’m sure it’s going to be fine.” Please give me some real data I am ignoring. You keep saying this, yet the next thing out of your mouth is the assertion that TNT does not care about viewership, only the demo rating. That is pretty bold. _*Said on November 5th 2019.*
> 
> _Yes, demo ratings are important, but they are not the be-all, end-all. Being on cable, being wrestling, its overall viewership, new media and competition are going to affect those numbers. Anyone saying “the demo rating is good, therefore they’ve got nothing to worry about” are making a lot of archaic and short-sighted assumptions as we approach 2020. _*Said on November 5th 2019.*
> 
> All of the above, was said within the first month of AEW on TNT's existence.  There are other posts like, _"Darby and OC will never draw viewers", _but don't take my word for it because I'm not the one that "can't address the issues and/or stay on topic".
> 
> If this doesn't show that his bias and utter hatred has been there since day one (and every day since), then I really need to re-educate myself on the meanings of phrases like, "all the time", "says the same things", "never says anything positive", etc.


So what do you want me to do? Ban him from this section because his overly critical of aew?


----------



## Garty

Firefromthegods said:


> So what do you want me to do? Ban him from this section because his overly critical of aew?


You do what you want. I'm just pointing things out he has said in the past. Nothing he ever says is "fact", it's all hypothetical, what-if and but's. There are tons of references where he fully admits to not watching the show, reacting to what other negative people have told him, hell he even said that Dave Meltzer's numbers were correct, but the spin he puts on them is what you can't believe.

I don't know what else to say, so I won't.


----------



## bdon

What’s everyone’s excuses for the low ratings? Still have not touched the premiere episode despite being unopposed.

AEW is a niche show for a niche audience drawing niche ratings. That’s fine and all. I watched every episode of Supernatural 5 times at least, which is pretty fucking niche, but are people still arguing like TK is going to book a show that can genuinely ever compete with WWE for TV rights fees?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

bdon said:


> What’s everyone’s excuses for the low ratings? Still have not touched the premiere episode despite being unopposed.
> 
> AEW is a niche show for a niche audience drawing niche ratings. That’s fine and all. I watched every episode of Supernatural 5 times at least, which is pretty fucking niche, but are people still arguing like TK is going to book a show that can genuinely ever compete with WWE for TV rights fees?


*This week's deflection is that they were the number one show on cable even though their excuse last week was AEW couldn't compete with Joe Biden. *


----------



## One Shed

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *This week's deflection is that they were the number one show on cable even though their excuse last week was AEW couldn't compete with Joe Biden. *


Next Wednesday is the last day of Ramadan, the following Wednesday is apparently National Plant a Vegetable Garden Day, and the 26th is obviously World Otter Day, so May is covered.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

And June 2nd is June 2nd. People will be partying that night.


----------



## La Parka

Then the nba finals


----------



## The Wood

None of what Garty pointed out there, for the record, has been inconsistent with any viewpoint I have held, nor has anything to do with the questions I was asked. In no particular order:

* I do think Meltzer puts the spin on the numbers. He’s even stopped reporting them now. There was a story last week or something about how a TNA PPV did better than anything else not AEW on PPV since October. No numbers, no listing of what it actually beat.

* When I said the “writing is on the wall,” like “the dream might be over,” it was in reference to a powerhouse company that could achieve giant TV rights fees enough to be competitive with Vince and force his product to get better too. (fart noise) I was actually right about that one.

* AEW’s ratings did drop pretty steeply. We also had a recent reoccurrence of that when they started going unopposed. This product is niche and most wrestling fans don’t like it. I’ve always said that.

* Are they making money? I still ask that to this day.

* I’ve always said what is perceived to be the “key demo” is a shallow reading of what advertisers are interested in right now.

None of that is me being inconsistent, shifting goalposts, lying or saying anything I don’t honestly believe. Hell, I’d argue that none of it is even wrong. You just don’t like my tone and that I stopped deep-throating the company the first time they jerked me.

Leave me alone. Go to rants, I don’t give a fuck about your opinion in there. Go and diagnose me with all sorts of mental conditions and look for patterns that aren’t there. But stop clogging up a section I enjoy coming in to discuss and analyse wrestling I don’t _have_ to agree with you on, buddy.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> None of what Garty pointed out there, for the record, has been inconsistent with any viewpoint I have held, nor has anything to do with the questions I was asked. In no particular order:
> 
> * I do think Meltzer puts the spin on the numbers. He’s even stopped reporting them now. There was a story last week or something about how a TNA PPV did better than anything else not AEW on PPV since October. No numbers, no listing of what it actually beat.
> 
> * When I said the “writing is on the wall,” like “the dream might be over,” it was in reference to a powerhouse company that could achieve giant TV rights fees enough to be competitive with Vince and force his product to get better too. (fart noise) I was actually right about that one.
> 
> * AEW’s ratings did drop pretty steeply. We also had a recent reoccurrence of that when they started going unopposed. This product is niche and most wrestling fans don’t like it. I’ve always said that.
> 
> * Are they making money? I still ask that to this day.
> 
> * I’ve always said what is perceived to be the “key demo” is a shallow reading of what advertisers are interested in right now.
> 
> None of that is me being inconsistent, shifting goalposts, lying or saying anything I don’t honestly believe. Hell, I’d argue that none of it is even wrong. You just don’t like my tone and that I stopped deep-throating the company the first time they jerked me.
> 
> Leave me alone. Go to rants, I don’t give a fuck about your opinion in there. Go and diagnose me with all sorts of mental conditions and look for patterns that aren’t there. But stop clogging up a section I enjoy coming in to discuss and analyse wrestling I don’t _have_ to agree with you on, buddy.


Yikes, you’re clogging up this section with your walls of text since you’re unsatisfied that they got a good number this week. Can you just admit that the poster you’re referring to has more valuable viewpoints here, and maybe consider the realistic possibility that you do tend to be really inconsistent lately?

I think doing that could make you feel better since you're coming off as aggressive towards him. You just need to let the guy discuss and analyze however he wants (even if it means disproving your arguments regarding the ratings)


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> Yikes, you’re clogging up this section with your walls of text since you’re unsatisfied that they got a good number this week. Can you just admit that the poster you’re referring to has more valuable viewpoints here, and maybe consider the realistic possibility that you do tend to be really inconsistent lately?
> 
> I think doing that could make you feel better since you're coming off as aggressive towards him. You just need to let the guy discuss and analyze however he wants (even if it means disproving your arguments regarding the ratings)


You need meat to bait, mate.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> You need meat to bait, mate.


No, I just think you need to calm down since you sounded hostile and cussed up a storm in your last paragraph from your previous post.

They're doing well with the overall viewership atm, so there's no need to get so worked up over it. 

He's a friendly poster too.


----------



## rbl85

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *This week's deflection is that they were the number one show on cable even though their excuse last week was AEW couldn't compete with Joe Biden. *


This post doesn't make any sense.

Oh and i'm still waiting on why Baker with her 3min appearance saved the show this week


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> No, I just think you need to calm down since you sounded hostile and cussed up a storm in your last paragraph from your previous post.
> 
> They're doing well with the overall viewership atm, so there's no need to get so worked up over it.
> 
> He's a friendly poster too.


DammitChrist mode activated:

You’re wrong, because I was actually being quite reasonable.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

I'm still confused how getting over a million viewers and being at the #1 spot is a bad rating. Like what the fuck were people expecting?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

rbl85 said:


> This post doesn't make any sense.
> 
> Oh and i'm still waiting on why Baker with her 3min appearance saved the show this week


*It makes perfect sense. AEW supposedly couldn't compete with the lowest rated SOTU address in 3 decades, yet you think being #1 on TV by default is a net gain in spite of being 200 k below the first unopposed number: Biden Speech Draws 26.9 Million TV Viewers, a 28-Year Low | National Review

As for Britt, 100,000 people leaving after her match speaks for itself without mentioning the gain. The alternative is everyone already stopped caring about Christian, which I wouldn't doubt either.*


----------



## The Wood

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I'm still confused how getting over a million viewers and being at the #1 spot is a bad rating. Like what the fuck were people expecting?


Because you have to put that number into context. Is 1 million on TV a lot? Not really. A quick look at the Showbuzz charts, which rank by key demo (because they’re still stuck in the “Cowabunga!” 90’s), shows about 20 shows that also got 1 million or higher. Five shows got over 2 million.

WWE, which is generally considered a shitty product, that is averaged out to a score over 3 hours (although Showbuzz registers each show, which implies that WWE actually charge separate for each hour, making that trivial), gets about 1.8 million. That’s for a shitty 3 HOUR show. 

On top of that, they are down from where they started (again). Unopposed they had 1.2 million. A lot of those people said “Nah, not for me.” Possibly again.

So no, not everybody is impressed with 1 million like it’s magic.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

The Wood said:


> Because you have to put that number into context. Is 1 million on TV a lot? Not really. A quick look at the Showbuzz charts, which rank by key demo (because they’re still stuck in the “Cowabunga!” 90’s), shows about 20 shows that also got 1 million or higher. Five shows got over 2 million.
> 
> WWE, which is generally considered a shitty product, that is averaged out to a score over 3 hours (although Showbuzz registers each show, which implies that WWE actually charge separate for each hour, making that trivial), gets about 1.8 million. That’s for a shitty 3 HOUR show.
> 
> On top of that, they are down from where they started (again). Unopposed they had 1.2 million. A lot of those people said “Nah, not for me.” Possibly again.
> 
> So no, not everybody is impressed with 1 million like it’s magic.


So...what exactly were they supposed to get then?


----------



## The Wood

The Raw Smackdown said:


> So...what exactly were they supposed to get then?


I’ve answered this so many times. Growing an audience would be good. Not running off several hundred thousand people would be good. I don’t see a logical reason that a good wrestling show, allegedly, can’t be one of the most viewed shows on cable, and why it can’t do better than 3 hours of Monday Night Bore.

The only thing I hear is that WWE are established. Cool. So are plenty of other shows that eventually get canceled. The other is that AEW is new. Well, not any more. They’re approaching two years on the air. 100 episodes, 200 hours. They’ve had time to get shit over. And new can be an advantage.

So no, I’m not impressed.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *It makes perfect sense. AEW supposedly couldn't compete with the lowest rated SOTU address in 3 decades, yet you think being #1 on TV by default is a net gain in spite of being 200 k below the first unopposed number: Biden Speech Draws 26.9 Million TV Viewers, a 28-Year Low | National Review
> 
> As for Britt, 100,000 people leaving after her match speaks for itself without mentioning the gain. The alternative is everyone already stopped caring about Christian, which I wouldn't doubt either.*


You do realize there are less than 120 million homes with traditional television right? 26.9 million (even being a 28 year low) is still a pretty massive number.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

The Wood said:


> I’ve answered this so many times. Growing an audience would be good. Not running off several hundred thousand people would be good.* I don’t see a logical reason that a good wrestling show, allegedly, can’t be one of the most viewed shows on cable, and why it can’t do better than 3 hours of Monday Night Bore.*
> 
> The only thing I hear is that WWE are established. Cool. So are plenty of other shows that eventually get canceled. The other is that AEW is new. Well, not any more. They’re approaching two years on the air. 100 episodes, 200 hours. They’ve had time to get shit over. And new can be an advantage.
> 
> So no, I’m not impressed.


Really? You really can't see why? Even if the reasons are staring you right in the face?


----------



## The Wood

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> You do realize there are less than 120 million homes with traditional television right? 26.9 million (even being a 28 year low) is still a pretty massive number.


No one is saying it’s “small.” It’s just the smallest. 



The Raw Smackdown said:


> Really? You really can't see why? Even if the reasons are staring you right in the face?


Are you suggesting that wrestling SHOULDN’T be more exciting than the fucking news and My Wife Gets a Tattoo 6 or whatever?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> You do realize there are less than 120 million homes with traditional television right? 26.9 million (even being a 28 year low) is still a pretty massive number.


*Then don't be surprised when people aren't impressed with an UNOPPOSED million for a PPV caliber event that was heavily promoted.*


----------



## Garty

The Wood said:


> None of what Garty pointed out there, for the record, has been inconsistent with any viewpoint I have held, nor has anything to do with the questions I was asked. In no particular order:
> 
> * I do think Meltzer puts the spin on the numbers. He’s even stopped reporting them now. There was a story last week or something about how a TNA PPV did better than anything else not AEW on PPV since October. No numbers, no listing of what it actually beat.
> 
> * When I said the “writing is on the wall,” like “the dream might be over,” it was in reference to a powerhouse company that could achieve giant TV rights fees enough to be competitive with Vince and force his product to get better too. (fart noise) I was actually right about that one.
> 
> * AEW’s ratings did drop pretty steeply. We also had a recent reoccurrence of that when they started going unopposed. This product is niche and most wrestling fans don’t like it. I’ve always said that.
> 
> * Are they making money? I still ask that to this day.
> 
> * I’ve always said what is perceived to be the “key demo” is a shallow reading of what advertisers are interested in right now.
> 
> None of that is me being inconsistent, shifting goalposts, lying or saying anything I don’t honestly believe. Hell, I’d argue that none of it is even wrong. You just don’t like my tone and that I stopped deep-throating the company the first time they jerked me.
> 
> Leave me alone. Go to rants, I don’t give a fuck about your opinion in there. Go and diagnose me with all sorts of mental conditions and look for patterns that aren’t there. But stop clogging up a section I enjoy coming in to discuss and analyse wrestling I don’t _have_ to agree with you on, buddy.


For the record, everything I quoted is exactly what Woody has said. Roughly 35 days into it's "birth" and AEW was already closing it's doors. Does anyone else not see the complete bias he projects? He may be "consistent", as he self-proclaims, but it's the same shit over and over. He doesn't like the product. He doesn't watch the product. He can't acknowledge any positive. He can't admit when he's wrong.

 You're telling me to take this "feud" of ours to Rants (where there is now a dedicated AEW Rant thread) and talk about it there, but you won't follow your own advice?! If you think your "facts" are 100% accurate here on this board, then you should have no problem proving them 100% accurate there shouldn't you? Maybe rants is just too far beneath you to participate in? I'm betting on the latter excuse.

See 'ya there Woody.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I'm still confused how getting over a million viewers and being at the #1 spot is a bad rating. Like what the fuck were people expecting?


It's weird to me too. Nobody was expecting the 1.2m number a few weeks ago but the goalposts are being constantly shifted by those who like to paint a dark picture. I'm pretty sure TNT would be happy with them being ranked no 1 regardless if what some internet experts say.


----------



## CovidFan

Garty said:


> For the record, everything I quoted is exactly what Woody has said. Roughly 35 days into it's "birth" and AEW was already closing it's doors. Does anyone else not see the complete bias he projects?


Everyone sees it. Just some people feed the troll


----------



## rbl85

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *It makes perfect sense. AEW supposedly couldn't compete with the lowest rated SOTU address in 3 decades, yet you think being #1 on TV by default is a net gain in spite of being 200 k below the first unopposed number: Biden Speech Draws 26.9 Million TV Viewers, a 28-Year Low | National Review
> 
> As for Britt, 100,000 people leaving after her match speaks for itself without mentioning the gain. The alternative is everyone already stopped caring about Christian, which I wouldn't doubt either.*


"*As for Britt, 100,000 people leaving after her match speaks for itself without mentioning the gain" * my sides hurt XD

Dude she was on the screen for 3min during Q3
Cody was also on screen for 3 min during Q3 and Darby was on screen even longer.

So unless you have the minute by minute rating, you are full of shit.

The probability here is that the high point of Q3 was the end of the Cody match or Darby's segment.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

rbl85 said:


> "*As for Britt, 100,000 people leaving after her match speaks for itself without mentioning the gain" * my sides hurt XD
> 
> Dude she was on the screen for 3min during Q4.
> Cody was also on screen for 3 min during Q4 and Darby was on screen even longer.
> 
> So unless you have the minute by minute rating, you are full of shit.
> 
> The probability here is that the high point of Q4 was the end of the Cody match or Darby's segment.


*Yet the first massive drop of the show occurred when Cody came on the screen. Save it.*


----------



## rbl85

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Yet the first massive drop of the show occurred when Cody came on the screen. Save it.*


The ending of a match always see a good bump rating-wise

No the first drop of the show happened during Q2 because out of the 15min of the quarter 6 of them were commercials.

Q3 had 0 commercial


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Then don't be surprised when people aren't impressed with an UNOPPOSED million for a PPV caliber event that was heavily promoted.*


Because it should have done 26 million?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Because it should have done 26 million?


*No, it means Biden wasn't a factor in people tuning out last week. The speech didn't start until an hour after AEW. It's a horrible excuse.*


----------



## 3venflow

AEW had a smaller live % of viewers last week compared to the normal average. It was something like 58% vs. the usual 75% (go back in this thread, I posted the stats). With DVRs, last week's show did 1.5m, but the live viewership wasn't that impressive.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

3venflow said:


> AEW had a smaller live % of viewers last week compared to the normal average. It was something like 58% vs. the usual 75% (go back in this thread, I posted the stats). With DVRs, last week's show did 1.5m, but the live viewership wasn't that impressive.


Yep. People also tune in before big speeches like this to hear predictions from their pundit of choice. Anyone saying that the State of the Union didn't effect live viewership last week is being disingenuous.


----------



## rbl85

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Yep. People also tune in before big speeches like this to hear predictions from their pundit of choice. Anyone saying that the State of the Union didn't effect live viewership last week is being disingenuous.


If the all mighty Boss of Bel Air said no it's no even if she or he have 0 arguments


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> Because you have to put that number into context. Is 1 million on TV a lot? Not really. A quick look at the Showbuzz charts, which rank by key demo (because they’re still stuck in the “Cowabunga!” 90’s), shows about 20 shows that also got 1 million or higher. Five shows got over 2 million.
> 
> WWE, which is generally considered a shitty product, that is averaged out to a score over 3 hours (although Showbuzz registers each show, which implies that WWE actually charge separate for each hour, making that trivial), gets about 1.8 million. That’s for a shitty 3 HOUR show.
> 
> On top of that, they are down from where they started (again). Unopposed they had 1.2 million. A lot of those people said “Nah, not for me.” Possibly again.
> 
> So no, not everybody is impressed with 1 million like it’s magic.


This is classic you on activation mode.

Continuously write a redundant novel questioning and overanalyzing the truthful statistics (to futile results since you can't change the facts), but can't admit that he's troubled by their good rating this past week; so you must waste everyone's time.


----------



## DammitChrist

rbl85 said:


> "*As for Britt, 100,000 people leaving after her match speaks for itself without mentioning the gain" * my sides hurt XD
> 
> Dude she was on the screen for 3min during Q3
> Cody was also on screen for 3 min during Q3 and Darby was on screen even longer.
> 
> So unless you have the minute by minute rating, you are full of shit.
> 
> The probability here is that the high point of Q3 was the end of the Cody match or Darby's segment.


You need to remember that Cody Rhodes somehow is responsible for that "large" drop in viewership though.

The 2nd half of his match gradually bumped up viewers, and it wasn't even close to being the lowest rated segment on the show.


----------



## The Wood

Garty said:


> For the record, everything I quoted is exactly what Woody has said. Roughly 35 days into it's "birth" and AEW was already closing it's doors. Does anyone else not see the complete bias he projects? He may be "consistent", as he self-proclaims, but it's the same shit over and over. He doesn't like the product. He doesn't watch the product. He can't acknowledge any positive. He can't admit when he's wrong.
> 
> You're telling me to take this "feud" of ours to Rants (where there is now a dedicated AEW Rant thread) and talk about it there, but you won't follow your own advice?! If you think your "facts" are 100% accurate here on this board, then you should have no problem proving them 100% accurate there shouldn't you? Maybe rants is just too far beneath you to participate in? I'm betting on the latter excuse.
> 
> See 'ya there Woody.


I never said AEW was closing its doors. This is another blatant lie. My line has always been that the Khans have had the money to keep AEW open for as long as they want to.

All people carry bias, Garty. Mine happens to be towards good wrestling. What I think is good wrestling for reasons I can back up. I don’t claim to be unbiased. I do enjoy facts and use them whenever I can. I’m not perfect, but facts can persuade me. Lies don’t really do it for me though. 

You’re the one obsessed with me, Garty. I don’t go digging through your posts to try and find things I can take out of context to misrepresent you. I think your post trying to project a mental condition onto me emphasises that. And it’s always _you_ picking the argument with _me_, not vice versa.

I don’t really care to engage with you, Garty. I just defend my points so they stand and your smear tactics don’t get to play. The mods don’t like us cluttering up threads so I say take it to Rants because _I don’t give a fuck._ When I make posts aimed to personally discredit another user, project mental conditions onto them, lie through my teeth about their posts, and respond to everything they say in a baiting tone even when asked to stop by mods — I’d expect them to tell me to fuck off too.



BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Because it should have done 26 million?


No one said that.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> This is classic you on activation mode.
> 
> Continuously write a redundant novel questioning and overanalyzing the truthful statistics (to futile results since you can't change the facts), but can't admit that he's troubled by their good rating this past week; so you must waste everyone's time.


“Overanalysing” sounds like a way of saying “I don’t like the way you thought way harder about this than I did, and reached conclusions I don’t want to be confronted with.”


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> “Overanalysing” sounds like a way of saying “I don’t like the way you thought way harder about this than I did, and reached conclusions I don’t want to be confronted with.”


Nah, that term perfectly describes how you feel the need to write and spam pointless essays arguing about the validity or reliability of their overall ratings on a weekly basis (or even on a daily basis).


----------



## Garty

The Wood said:


> I never said AEW was closing its doors. This is another blatant lie. My line has always been that the Khans have had the money to keep AEW open for as long as they want to.
> 
> All people carry bias, Garty. Mine happens to be towards good wrestling. What I think is good wrestling for reasons I can back up. I don’t claim to be unbiased. I do enjoy facts and use them whenever I can. I’m not perfect, but facts can persuade me. Lies don’t really do it for me though.
> 
> You’re the one obsessed with me, Garty. I don’t go digging through your posts to try and find things I can take out of context to misrepresent you. I think your post trying to project a mental condition onto me emphasises that. And it’s always _you_ picking the argument with _me_, not vice versa.
> 
> I don’t really care to engage with you, Garty. I just defend my points so they stand and your smear tactics don’t get to play. The mods don’t like us cluttering up threads so I say take it to Rants because _I don’t give a fuck._ When I make posts aimed to personally discredit another user, project mental conditions onto them, lie through my teeth about their posts, and respond to everything they say in a baiting tone even when asked to stop by mods — I’d expect them to tell me to fuck off too.


Duly noted. You continue on with this, yet "_I don't give a fuck_" is said in the same breath. You should have been told to fuck off, at least once, but no, you keep the argument going, blaming any and all but yourself. Take your own advice. Do you know _why_ I've written what I have over the years? Because it's all true. I am going to rant about you and I'm not going to take anything "out of context", just to prove a point... you've done that on your own. You give everyone so much material to sift through. No one has ever forced you to write those essay long diatribes. You did.

I hope to see you in the AEW Rant thread soon Woody. It's going to take more than just a few days to get this done, so I'll let you know when I've completed the "project".


----------



## The Wood

Garty said:


> Duly noted. You continue on with this, yet "_I don't give a fuck_" is said in the same breath. You should have been told to fuck off, at least once, but no, you keep the argument going, blaming any and all but yourself. Take your own advice. Do you know _why_ I've written what I have over the years? Because it's all true. I am going to rant about you and I'm not going to take anything "out of context", just to prove a point... you've done that on your own. You give everyone so much material to sift through. No one has ever forced you to write those essay long diatribes. You did.
> 
> I hope to see you in the AEW Rant thread soon Woody. It's going to take more than just a few days to get this done, so I'll let you know when I've completed the "project".


Yes, I take myself out of context. That makes total sense. You can’t judge about essay writing. I enjoy talking about wrestling.

I can’t wait for it to be the same old “the dream is over” (referring to giant TV rights fees to challenge Vince) taken right out of context. I know what I’ve said and what I haven’t. I stand by almost all of it. Have your fun, but it definitely proves my point about you being obsessed.



DammitChrist said:


> Nah, that term perfectly describes how you feel the need to write and spam pointless essays arguing about the validity or reliability of their overall ratings on a weekly basis (or even on a daily basis).


Classic DC. “Nah, I’m right. And here’s no reason why.”


----------



## Klitschko

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I'm still confused how getting over a million viewers and being at the #1 spot is a bad rating. Like what the fuck were people expecting?


It's not a bad rating at all, but they just got a 1.2 and 1.1 few weeks ago and this show has been built up for what feels like months. We even had a thread asking if it was possible they hit 2 million viewers for this show. 1 million is solid and all, but I'm pretty sure most of us expected a little more with the amount of build up they invested into it.


----------



## Garty

The Wood said:


> Yes, I take myself out of context. That makes total sense. You can’t judge about essay writing. *I enjoy talking about wrestling.*
> 
> I can’t wait for it to be the same old “the dream is over” (referring to giant TV rights fees to challenge Vince) taken right out of context. *I know what I’ve said and what I haven’t. I stand by almost all of it. Have your fun, but it definitely proves my point about you being obsessed.*


*No, you enjoy talking about yourself and why you're somehow "always right". "Believe what you want, but I'm telling you that..." is NOT talking about wrestling.

So, you're already projecting ("I stand by almost all of it") that ANYTHING I may find contradictory, inflammatory, or dead-wrong, as to what you've said "then", as opposed to what you're saying "now", that's somehow me, "taking things out of context"? I'm showing you the context and your reply to that. In full.

I'm still obsessed am I? You know how many "citation needed" posts of yours I've seen so far? You always want "proof!!!", "I need proof!!!". The only thing that's going to show you that "proof", is going back into your "unbiased" past.*

Here's a quick one, just so everyone is aware of your "love of wrestling", posted in November 2020, replying to Outlaw saying, "Of course you will never leave, I see you registered 17 years ago and you are still here. You could write a book about your vision of this forum's history. They should even pay you for such longevity, I mean it."

*You replied with:*

_"I signed up 17 years ago, posted a couple of times and then left for about 15 years. Didn’t make a single post here between 2003 and, like, 2018 (I might be off on that year). You and Pippen are seobsessed with this, haha."_

*Secondly first... you made a spelling mistake  but most importantly first, this proves to me and everyone else here, that you had NOTHING to say about wrestling for 15 years until the "big-bad AEW" came along and disrupted the WWE norm. Then, all of a sudden, you had some type of epiphany on how the business should look, sound and act. Get over yourself Woody. You're not as good as you think you are, or pretend to be and that's what eats away at you, most of all. Being discredited.*


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

Klitschko said:


> It's not a bad rating at all, but they just got a 1.2 and 1.1 few weeks ago and this show has been built up for what feels like months. We even had a thread asking if it was possible they hit 2 million viewers for this show. 1 million is solid and all, but I'm pretty sure most of us expected a little more with the amount of build up they invested into it.


Eh, I was guessing 1.15 - 1.2 million and felt like anyone predicting 1.4 was reaching and anything beyond that was just b.s.

If they're only hitting 1.4-1.5 on dvr with about 75%-80% watching live the numbers they got seem pretty reasonable, especially with Cinco di Mayo being a thing -- Apparently most entertainment shows were down about 15-20% in 18-49 across the board so without it they would have probably hit 1.2 which seems completely realistic.


----------



## Swan-San

Klitschko said:


> It's not a bad rating at all, but they just got a 1.2 and 1.1 few weeks ago and this show has been built up for what feels like months. We even had a thread asking if it was possible they hit 2 million viewers for this show. 1 million is solid and all, but I'm pretty sure most of us expected a little more with the amount of build up they invested into it.


There wasn't really any buildup tho, well there was, but it wasn't good.


----------



## The Wood

Garty said:


> *No, you enjoy talking about yourself and why you're somehow "always right". "Believe what you want, but I'm telling you that..." is NOT talking about wrestling.
> 
> So, you're already projecting ("I stand by almost all of it") that ANYTHING I may find contradictory, inflammatory, or dead-wrong, as to what you've said "then", as opposed to what you're saying "now", that's somehow me, "taking things out of context"? I'm showing you the context and your reply to that. In full.
> 
> I'm still obsessed am I? You know how many "citation needed" posts of yours I've seen so far? You always want "proof!!!", "I need proof!!!". The only thing that's going to show you that "proof", is going back into your "unbiased" past.*
> 
> Here's a quick one, just so everyone is aware of your "love of wrestling", posted in November 2020, replying to Outlaw saying, "Of course you will never leave, I see you registered 17 years ago and you are still here. You could write a book about your vision of this forum's history. They should even pay you for such longevity, I mean it."
> 
> *You replied with:*
> 
> _"I signed up 17 years ago, posted a couple of times and then left for about 15 years. Didn’t make a single post here between 2003 and, like, 2018 (I might be off on that year). You and Pippen are seobsessed with this, haha."_
> 
> *Secondly first... you made a spelling mistake  but most importantly first, this proves to me and everyone else here, that you had NOTHING to say about wrestling for 15 years until the "big-bad AEW" came along and disrupted the WWE norm. Then, all of a sudden, you had some type of epiphany on how the business should look, sound and act. Get over yourself Woody. You're not as good as you think you are, or pretend to be and that's what eats away at you, most of all. Being discredited.*


Yeah, you’re obsessed. Back to Rambly Garty. You’re more than welcome to post your lies in Rants, man. But yes, they’re all lies.

Take your quote in here: I rejoined here in 2018 or whenever because another forum I was part of basically died. That’s all. I was back here _before_ AEW was announced. I was one of the more optimistic about it prior to it having its own board.

I’m living rent free in your head, and not only is the context you misquote me in dishonest, but your crazy theories are just flat-out wrong.


----------



## Klitschko

Time to put this bullshit to rest. You should have done this ages ago @The Wood to shut people up. Look into his history before AEW was a thing and there is a million posts where he is super optimistic and thinks AEW will be awesome and hoping they will beat out RAW. He was even sure that AEW will sign CM Punk and seemed like a fan. Not his fault they failed to entertain him. I hope this stops some of the attacks on him @Firefromthegods.

Here is just one of his many positive posts from years ago. There you go @Garty.



The Wood said:


> TNA was largely the creative of Vince Russo. It's not an accurate representation of the interest in a prime time wrestling promotion. It was also not arena wrestling and never had the capital that AEW has. It's hard to imagine anything being competition to WWE right now, but when you consider that they are likely going to be as accessible as Raw and only require two hours of viewing time from their fans, and hopefully won't insult your intelligence, and it's not hard to imagine them doing surprisingly well.
> 
> They will also have the AAA influence. In Mexico, AAA gets over 4 million viewers a week, with a large percentage of them being young women. WWE can only keep old white men who watch out of habit. I think the idea that WWE exists as the default #1 because of brand superiority and quality is a myth. I think most potential wrestling fans don't watch WWE. This provides a huge opportunity for an AEW to get women and younger fans and have a lot more of a contemporary and valuable fan-base.
> 
> My outlandish prediction for AEW, and I've never truly vocalized this, is that I legitimately think AEW has a good chance of beating Raw in the ratings, provided they end up on a Turner station. There will literally be nothing that prevents them from being as watched. It's not like they're trying to get into Madison Square Garden when Vince is running there. It will be a remote click away and should be promoted pretty heavily, will have the advantage of being "new" and "fresh," and isn't as likely to be objectively bad television like WWE is.
> 
> Contrast that to WWE's declining ratings (showing customer dissatisfaction), Raw no longer being priority for WWE with SmackDown going to FOX, and it being *three fucking hours long*, and I don't think it's impossible at all. There were 2 million extra people who checked out the Raw 25 special last year. It's quite possible that this will appeal to the 2 million people who tuned in for that, saw what a shit show it was, and never came back. It could appeal to more. It could also appeal to the 500,000 or so people who want to watch wrestling each week, but tune out of Raw because it sucks. That's 2.5 million people.
> 
> That's _if_ it gets promoted as a big deal by the Turner people and they manage to get people back.
> 
> 
> 
> There's a truth to this, but this is something that AEW is actually looking to combat. Well, not specifically big guys, but in paying wrestlers like stars and allowing them to live the lifestyle of stars, they are hopefully going to attract stars.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*@The Wood Great prediction on AEW catching RAW in ratings. It's gotten so much worse in the last two years, so that's actually a possibility.*


----------



## CM Buck

@The Wood there's that rants thread you're welcome to call dc and Garty out on their shit there.


----------



## CM Buck

excuse the double post. Anyone who wishes to fight like children about the overall health or whatever the fuck about aew do it in rants. This is a weekly ratings thread. Not the weekly kids can't handle different opinions so they fight like idiots and embarress the aew fanbase thread.


----------



## The Wood

Klitschko said:


> Time to put this bullshit to rest. You should have done this ages ago @The Wood to shut people up. Look into his history before AEW was a thing and there is a million posts where he is super optimistic and thinks AEW will be awesome and hoping they will beat out RAW. He was even sure that AEW will sign CM Punk and seemed like a fan. Not his fault they failed to entertain him. I hope this stops some of the attacks on him @Firefromthegods.
> 
> Here is just one of his many positive posts from years ago. There you go @Garty.


Thanks for taking the time to dig that up. I hope it wasn’t too much effort for you. Seriously, it’s all just bullshit. I had high hopes, they way undelivered (for me). And my talking points in there are STILL in line with what I believe (Raw is beatable, for example). 



Firefromthegods said:


> @The Wood there's that rants thread you're welcome to call dc and Garty out on their shit there.


I’m honestly not even bothered about their silly little gripes. I just hate it when they come into a discussion and try to bait me in here, because I do care about my points, and I will defend them. They can have their little circle jerks and whatever over there. This is for wrestling discussion, dammit!


----------



## CM Buck

The Wood said:


> Thanks for taking the time to dig that up. I hope it wasn’t too much effort for you. Seriously, it’s all just bullshit. I had high hopes, they way undelivered (for me). And my talking points in there are STILL in line with what I believe (Raw is beatable, for example).
> 
> 
> 
> I’m honestly not even bothered about their silly little gripes. I just hate it when they come into a discussion and try to bait me in here, because I do care about my points, and I will defend them. They can have their little circle jerks and whatever over there. This is for wrestling discussion, dammit!


I should have done more when chip and cult were around. I should have been harder on both sides and really pulled the instigators from the root like the pippens and the chips. 

Both sides got a way with too much because I wanted everyone to get along


----------



## Aedubya

Who is chip and cult?


----------



## CM Buck

Aedubya said:


> Who is chip and cult?


Members of the angry aussies. And the reason along with the wood (no offence) have a stigma in this section


----------



## The Wood

Firefromthegods said:


> I should have done more when chip and cult were around. I should have been harder on both sides and really pulled the instigators from the root like the pippens and the chips.
> 
> Both sides got a way with too much because I wanted everyone to get along


Don’t beat yourself up. I can’t speak for Chip or cult, who I obviously wish were still around, but it’s not an easy gig you’ve volunteered for. Ideally, we’d all be about discussion, and that means letting people go a bit.


----------



## Prosper

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1391172016145850377


----------



## 3venflow

CAnon 😂 😂 😂

On-topic, Brandon Thurston speculating that the new TNT show could go on Fridays after Smackdown.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1391769644676042758


----------



## One Shed

Prosper said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1391172016145850377


Yup, and that was on a show that did not feature Matt Hardy AT ALL, let alone any of his goofiness. Matt actually making our points for us now and not even realizing it.


----------



## The Wood

I used to be a Matt Hardy fan. Even made excuses for him in 2010. The dude sucks though. He’s washed up. Cooked.


----------



## Dr. Middy

I like Matt as a manager type and he still is a solid worker, but I wish he just shut up sometimes. Honestly, that goes for mostly every wrestler who responds to random twitter accounts like this. A ton are guilty of it.


----------



## Shock Street

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> I like Matt as a manager type and he still is a solid worker, but I wish he just shut up sometimes. Honestly, that goes for mostly every wrestler who responds to random twitter accounts like this. A ton are guilty of it.


I think there's an argument to be made that wrestling would be better if wrestlers couldn't tweet. I know it's a great way to engage with fans, but they tend to make me less interested in them rather than more interested.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Two Sheds said:


> Yup, and that was on a show that did not feature Matt Hardy AT ALL, let alone any of his goofiness. Matt actually making our points for us now and not even realizing it.


*I actually like Big Money Matt tbh...







*


----------



## One Shed

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I actually like Big Money Matt tbh...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


I like him better than teleporting, goofy Matt.


----------



## La Parka

Two Sheds said:


> I like him better than teleporting, goofy Matt.


I wish he’d teleport back to his home planet


----------



## The Wood

Shock Street said:


> I think there's an argument to be made that wrestling would be better if wrestlers couldn't tweet. I know it's a great way to engage with fans, but they tend to make me less interested in them rather than more interested.


I cannot believe wrestling promotions do not have social media policies yet.


----------



## Martyn

Pro wrestling would be better if the "fans" wouldnt bitch about literally everything. No one hates wrestling more than it's so called fans. I've noticed that theres tons of people who are either not watching anymore or are completely blind about their one beloved product/promotion/way of doing wrestling/etc and instead of sticking to the stuff theyre enjoying or leaving it if they dont like it, they will keep shitting on everything else and try to ruin it for the rest.

If they're tagging those wrestlers on and on every day on Twitter, then I am really not surprised some or them are going to react to the criticism. They're people too. The "fans" are the problem. Not wrestlers on social media.


----------



## The Wood

Martyn said:


> *Pro wrestling would be better if the "fans" wouldnt bitch about literally everything. *No one hates wrestling more than it's so called fans. I've noticed that theres tons of people who are either not watching anymore or are completely blind about their one beloved product/promotion/way of doing wrestling/etc and instead of sticking to the stuff theyre enjoying or leaving it if they dont like it, they will keep shitting on everything else and try to ruin it for the rest.
> 
> If they're tagging those wrestlers on and on every day on Twitter, then I am really not surprised some or them are going to react to the criticism. They're people too. The "fans" are the problem. Not wrestlers on social media.


Oh, the irony.


----------



## Martyn

The Wood said:


> Oh, the irony.


Somehow when it comes to the TV series, movies, etc I dont see their fanbase turning into a bunch of directors who would shoot things better or feature one character over the other. It's something special about pro wrestling and it can be cool, but social media nowadays is really toxic if they dont have it their way and it must be really hard to be a promotor or wrestler at this point. That might be a reason why theres less and less wrestling fans, because it's hard to simply follow a product with all that bitching and nitpicking.


----------



## taker_2004

The Wood said:


> I cannot believe wrestling promotions do not have social media policies yet.


It's honestly flabbergasting to me. Beyond policies they should have entire production teams available for individual superstars to leverage for the purposes of social media. It should be like, automated. You create a gimmick or sign an exclusive contract with a superstar? Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube Channel, TikTok immediately created and branded.

If used right (not petty twitter squabbles, or photos of your vacation or child), it could really contribute to the work. Wrestlers could retain some self-direction when it came to their characters with vignettes, promos etc.


----------



## The Wood

Martyn said:


> Somehow when it comes to the TV series, movies, etc I dont see their fanbase turning into a bunch of directors who would shoot things better or feature one character over the other. It's something special about pro wrestling and it can be cool, but social media nowadays is really toxic if they dont have it their way and it must be really hard to be a promotor or wrestler at this point. That might be a reason why theres less and less wrestling fans, because it's hard to simply follow a product with all that bitching and nitpicking.


It’s literally every fanbase in the world. There’s nothing special about pro-wrestling except for it really not giving a large segment of its fans what they want. AEW satisfies the PWG niche, and there are still some people who will find something to like in WWE, but the “largely, this shit sucks” group is growing and growing. That’s not on them.

I’ll agree that fans _can_ be toxic. Social media, itself, is not toxic though. People have to go looking for that if they want to believe these are the prevailing voices. No one thinks the woman complaining at the supermarket is representative of the entire consumer base. I don’t know why people can’t read social media like that.

Fans make it harder for new fans to feel accepted and like they want to be part of that group. I know people who stopped going to wrestling shows _because_ of the fans. They’re not the “draw” some people think they will be when they return. It does make it harder for stars to get over, because the audience will actively rebel against people being pushed.

But the product sucking is a separate issue. “Shut up and like it” isn’t a good approach to boosting pro-wrestling. If it were good, casual voices would drown out the hardcore sycophant. But that’s not the case.


----------



## RapShepard

Martyn said:


> Somehow when it comes to the TV series, movies, etc I dont see their fanbase turning into a bunch of directors who would shoot things better or feature one character over the other. It's something special about pro wrestling and it can be cool, but social media nowadays is really toxic if they dont have it their way and it must be really hard to be a promotor or wrestler at this point. That might be a reason why theres less and less wrestling fans, because it's hard to simply follow a product with all that bitching and nitpicking.


You must only look up wrestling on the internet. The internet is rough on everything


----------



## Dr. Middy

Martyn said:


> Somehow when it comes to the TV series, movies, etc I dont see their fanbase turning into a bunch of directors who would shoot things better or feature one character over the other. It's something special about pro wrestling and it can be cool, but social media nowadays is really toxic if they dont have it their way and it must be really hard to be a promotor or wrestler at this point. That might be a reason why theres less and less wrestling fans, because it's hard to simply follow a product with all that bitching and nitpicking.


I've read accounts from fandoms of certain bands, TV shows, sports teams, movies, honestly ANY part of culture and it's very universal that the fans who are most hardcore are usually the most demanding and critical. Wrestling is no different there, and is far from the most critical at times. Go check out how hardcore Star Wars fans view the last trilogy of movies, which technically were all very successful in the box office. 

Is there a specific subset of fans of wrestling who seem to only want to be critical of it? Yes, and I think there are a decent amount on here that I would characterize as such. But I think there are also plenty who just want wrestling to be more like it has the potential to be. I may enjoy a lot of the wrestling I watch, but for people like Wood for example, he knows that the talent is there and he just wants it to be booked better. I never thought he legit hated it for the sake of doing so.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*I think I'll attend the Dynamite episode in Miami in July.*


----------



## 3venflow

Some nice and easy to read charts about AEW's numbers in the 18-49 demographic c/o Brandon Thurston of Wrestlenomics.

AEW has consistently had a male-dominated audience. RAW currently has its lowest male % of the audience since October 2019, with women making up over 40% of the 18-49 audience. Female viewership is AEW's only major weakness (although is up significantly now they're unopposed) and if they could draw in more women without running off guys, that could be the way to add more viewers.


----------



## Klitschko

I think AEW is doing great in the ratings as long as they can stay somewhere over in the million. 2 years old and already about 5-700k away from RAW isn't bad at all. They could be much much much better and probably close the gap a lot sooner if they fixed some things, but their current ratings are not bad at all in my opinion. Again though that's if they can stay in the low 1 million. Anything less than that and I would call it a crappy rating


----------



## 3venflow

If you follow the average last Wednesday, which was a 20.5% drop across the board for all shows, then Dynamite *might* have done a 1.31 viewership and 0.50(!) in the 18-49 on a normal week, which would have been one of its best since the debut.

The week before numbers (Biden) were 11.9% down across the board for those interested, so Cinco de Mayo actually had more of an effect than the president. And no, I'm not making 'excuses', I just look at the data and read from that, not any love for AEW. You can't argue factual data with emotions and biases.



Klitschko said:


> I think AEW is doing great in the ratings as long as they can stay somewhere over in the million. 2 years old and already about 5-700k away from RAW isn't bad at all. They could be much much much better and probably close the gap a lot sooner if they fixed some things, but their current ratings are not bad at all in my opinion. Again though that's if they can stay in the low 1 million. Anything less than that and I would call it a crappy rating


900k is their new 700k I think. The low point is 900k so if it goes below that, like when it dropped below 700k regularly last April to June (bottoming out at 633k on June 24) then that is the new 'disappointing'. Even though it's easier to judge the total viewership (because it catches the eye more), the 18-49 remains the thing to watch most. They had been consistently at 0.30 and above but just before NXT moved, there had been some worrying signs with the 18-49 slipping to 0.26. Now though, they're back up in that even against The Challenge which still hasn't finished. NXT's move has also helped tremendously with the 50+ audience, even though it's not viewed as important as the 18-49.


----------



## The Wood

3venflow said:


> If you follow the average last Wednesday, which was a 20.5% drop across the board for all shows, then Dynamite *might* have done a 1.31 viewership and 0.50(!) in the 18-49 on a normal week, which would have been one of its best since the debut.
> 
> The week before numbers (Biden) were 11.9% down across the board for those interested, so Cinco de Mayo actually had more of an effect than the president. And no, I'm not making 'excuses', I just look at the data and read from that, not any love for AEW. You can't argue factual data with emotions and biases.
> 
> 
> 
> 900k is their new 700k I think. The low point is 900k so if it goes below that, like when it dropped below 700k regularly last April to June (bottoming out at 633k on June 24) then that is the new 'disappointing'. Even though it's easier to judge the total viewership (because it catches the eye more), the 18-49 remains the thing to watch most. They had been consistently at 0.30 and above but just before NXT moved, there had been some worrying signs with the 18-49 slipping to 0.26. Now though, they're back up in that even against The Challenge which still hasn't finished. NXT's move has also helped tremendously with the 50+ audience, even though it's not viewed as important as the 18-49.
> 
> View attachment 101017


That is what you’re doing though. You’re arguing that if they were more popular than what they are, this would have been possible. Which they didn’t do. There’s nothing factual about it.

You might as well speculate about what AEW would do if it were still going up against NXT and report that like it’s fact.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

The Wood said:


> That is what you’re doing though. You’re arguing that if they were more popular than what they are, this would have been possible. Which they didn’t do. There’s nothing factual about it.
> 
> You might as well speculate about what AEW would do if it were still going up against NXT and report that like it’s fact.


No, he's saying that if a portion of their viewers weren't out drinking with friends they would have watched live instead of on DVR.


----------



## Garty

3venflow said:


> If you follow the average last Wednesday, which was a 20.5% drop across the board for all shows, then Dynamite *might* have done a 1.31 viewership and 0.50(!) in the 18-49 on a normal week, which would have been one of its best since the debut.
> 
> The week before numbers (Biden) were 11.9% down across the board for those interested, so Cinco de Mayo actually had more of an effect than the president. And no, I'm not making 'excuses', I just look at the data and read from that, not any love for AEW. You can't argue factual data with emotions and biases.
> 
> 
> 
> 900k is their new 700k I think. The low point is 900k so if it goes below that, like when it dropped below 700k regularly last April to June (bottoming out at 633k on June 24) then that is the new 'disappointing'. Even though it's easier to judge the total viewership (because it catches the eye more), the 18-49 remains the thing to watch most. They had been consistently at 0.30 and above but just before NXT moved, there had been some worrying signs with the 18-49 slipping to 0.26. Now though, they're back up in that even against The Challenge which still hasn't finished. NXT's move has also helped tremendously with the 50+ audience, even though it's not viewed as important as the 18-49.
> 
> View attachment 101017


*I knew before I even scrolled down the page, that putting these numbers on here would 1000% lead to a certain user, poo-pooing them, up and down, left and right. See below...*



The Wood said:


> That is what you’re doing though. You’re arguing that if they were more popular than what they are, this would have been possible. Which they didn’t do. There’s nothing factual about it.
> 
> You might as well speculate about what AEW would do if it were still going up against NXT and report that like it’s fact.


*Yep, just as I had predicted... *


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> Some nice and easy to read charts about AEW's numbers in the 18-49 demographic c/o Brandon Thurston of Wrestlenomics.
> 
> AEW has consistently had a male-dominated audience. RAW currently has its lowest male % of the audience since October 2019, with women making up over 40% of the 18-49 audience. Female viewership is AEW's only major weakness (although is up significantly now they're unopposed) and if they could draw in more women without running off guys, that could be the way to add more viewers.
> 
> View attachment 100991


*The Britt Baker push will add even more women.*


----------



## Dark Emperor

Smackdown did a 2.28m with a throwaway episode with only Rollins v Cesaro advertised.

That is over double the heavily hyped Blood & Guts so AEW still has a long way to go in my opinion.

It's also their highest rating since late Jan this year so that Cinco De Mayo excuse is bullshit.


----------



## 3venflow

Cinco de Mayo (and Dynamite) was Weds May 5th, Smackdown was on Fri May 7th. Smackdown also did the 'throwback' concept and nostalgia shows always pull in added viewers for WWE (see the Legends show they did on RAW earlier this year).

I don't know how something can be an 'excuse' when there is literal data showing an across-the-board drop in ratings on television. If this week's show underperforms, there is no data to rationalise it because there is nothing impacting the TV industry as a whole AFAIK.

And there is no obligation for AEW to catch Smackdown so I don't get that. No one, not even AEW itself, expects them to be matching WWE's ratings. If that happens, it's a bonus but it's not something that should be an expectation for a two-year old company against the biggest powerhouse brand in wrestling history.

Have a look at how TNA was doing against WWE in 2004 (two years in). 0.2 ratings on FSN vs. RAW's 3.5 to 4.0. AEW has achieved a lot in its short history and just ranked number one on cable. No amount of negative spin from people whose personal emotions cloud their reason can change that.



BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> No, he's saying that if a portion of their viewers weren't out drinking with friends they would have watched live instead of on DVR.


I can't see that guy's posts but can when someone quotes him, but yes, that's exactly what I was saying. Hence why I bolded *might*. They *might *have done those numbers if the across-the-board drop (20.5%) hadn't been in play. Alternatively, they could have had just 5%, 10% or 15% more live viewers. But 20.5% was the average number of viewers missing compared to usual. They certainly would have had more, it's just a question of how many.


----------



## The Wood

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> No, he's saying that if a portion of their viewers weren't out drinking with friends they would have watched live instead of on DVR.


They didn’t though, lol. It’s just another excuse. If the US didn’t have Presidents and tornados and guns more people would have watched too. If more people would have watched, more people would have watched. They didn’t. THAT is the data.


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> *I don't know how something can be an 'excuse' when there is literal data showing an across-the-board drop in ratings on television.If this week's show underperforms, there is no data to rationalise it because there is nothing impacting the TV industry as a whole AFAIK.
> 
> *


*

While there are some that refuse to acknowledge that AEW is doing fine in the ratings hence them being top 10 minimum most weeks. On the flip this string of excuses has to stop coming out everytime they underwhelm a little bit. 

I mean come on we're blaming Cinco De Mayo for why they didn't do slightly better. That's jumping the shark for excuses. There's always some excuse when the reality is just simply while AEW puts on a top 10 Wednesday night cable program, they don't put on a "stop everything must see" wrestling show and that's really all there is too it. Nothing wrong with that, most programs don't have that pull. But you can't keep blaming other shows existing and life existing everytime they slightly underwhelm.*


----------



## The Wood

Imagine if SmackDown weren’t on a Friday and could be watched by more people who didn’t go out or watch movies with their families that night. Whoa!

The numbers are what they are. They are an estimate of people watching live within a margin of 10%. You can’t say “if this wasn’t the case, this might have been” and call it data. It’s speculation. Coming from quite the ardent fan too.

Hell, it’s fair for me to say it’s more likely Cinco de Mayo had more of an effect on a show like Challenge. AEW should thank the holiday for letting them be #1, if you put stock into the bullshit demos. Data.


----------



## Martyn

Dark Emperor said:


> Smackdown did a 2.28m with a throwaway episode with only Rollins v Cesaro advertised.
> 
> That is over double the heavily hyped Blood & Guts so AEW still has a long way to go in my opinion.
> 
> It's also their highest rating since late Jan this year so that Cinco De Mayo excuse is bullshit.


SmackDown is on FOX, which is a bigger network and they did another one of their old school gimmicked shows that always bring in bigger audience. Do they really have such a long way to go?
WWE gets a billion deal for FOX. AEW gets a little over 170 million. AEW averages around 60%-70%? of SmackDowns 18-49 rating, which by simple calculations would mean that by the next time theres time to negotiate for renewal, they should have been paid at least double or triple of what theyre getting right now. Thats sounds quite healthy for them.


----------



## The Wood

Martyn said:


> SmackDown is on FOX, which is a bigger network and they did another one of their old school gimmicked shows that always bring in bigger audience. Do they really have such a long way to go?
> WWE gets a billion deal for FOX. AEW gets a little over 170 million. AEW averages around 60%-70%? of SmackDowns 18-49 rating, which by simple calculations would mean that by the next time theres time to negotiate for renewal, they should have been paid at least double or triple of what theyre getting right now. Thats sounds quite healthy for them.


That’s not how TV rights work. The scope widens the higher the ratings you get. SmackDown getting 2.28 million people is worth WAY more than just double what AEW gets. There’s the “tell a friend” factor. There’s the iceberg factor.

Yes, SmackDown is on FOX, but it is up. It’s also got links to other properties. Raw might lag, but if they want, they can use SmackDown to promote it. AEW’s primary show is its primary show.

I don’t get why people keep throwing out that SmackDown had a special show whilst AEW was promoting WAR GAMES. They’re both shows that would have received some measure of a spike, but come on. People are so willing to boost AEW that they will handicap the field that much.


----------



## Martyn

Sure, both Dynamite and SmackDown had gimmicked shows last week. Just saying that WWE always went back to their old school shows or legends nights in order to bring in more viewers. Either way, total viewership means absolutely nothing. Theres a reason why theres so much talk about 18-49 demographic and if you look at the top charts on cable, all the shows are being classified by their 18-49 numbers, not total viewership. There are situations where a show with over 3 million total ends up on the 15th place or so and a show with 700k total and a healthier 18-49 gets the number 1 spot. Therefore, I would bet that the situation will be very interesting by the next time they negotiate. Just imagine being in the shoes of FOX. Theyre paying a billion for a show that does lets say 600k in 18-49, whereas TNT pays 170 million for a show that does 400k. Its obvious that FOX is overpaying for its product and TNT got really lucky with AEW. If AEW would be on FOX, they would also get a significant bump in ratings just like SmackDown did with the move from the USA to FOX.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

RapShepard said:


> *While there are some that refuse to acknowledge that AEW is doing fine in the ratings hence them being top 10 minimum most weeks. On the flip this string of excuses has to stop coming out everytime they underwhelm a little bit.
> 
> I mean come on we're blaming Cinco De Mayo for why they didn't do slightly better. That's jumping the shark for excuses. There's always some excuse when the reality is just simply while AEW puts on a top 10 Wednesday night cable program, they don't put on a "stop everything must see" wrestling show and that's really all there is too it. Nothing wrong with that, most programs don't have that pull. But you can't keep blaming other shows existing and life existing everytime they slightly underwhelm.*


It's not an excuse, it's an explanation of reality. If every state west of the Mississippi lost power for a couple days, is it an excuse to say, well no wonder viewership was down significantly. Saying Cinco de Mayo was responsible for an across the board drop in viewers, whether it's a massive drop or minimal is just being realistic. It did have an effect, and even the data for shows that aren't AEW reflects that.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

The Wood said:


> Hell, it’s fair for me to say it’s more likely Cinco de Mayo had more of an effect on a show like Challenge. AEW should thank the holiday for letting them be #1, if you put stock into the bullshit demos. Data.


Funny you should mention it.. I literally said exactly that in my prediction for B&G  .


----------



## RapShepard

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> It's not an excuse, it's an explanation of reality. If every state west of the Mississippi lost power for a couple days, is it an excuse to say, well no wonder viewership was down significantly. Saying Cinco de Mayo was responsible for an across the board drop in viewers, whether it's a massive drop or minimal is just being realistic. It did have an effect, and even the data for shows that aren't AEW reflects that.


The first is one thing, you're making an excuse using Cinco De Mayo. They planned a big show, did slightly worse than expected, and people are making excuses. There's always an excuse when they slightly underperform. It's the fault of the news, sports, arbor day, some show fared to have a finale, next week it'll be "well it wasn't Blood and Guts". 

The funniest part is the people who constantly shit on AEW and the people who are super optimistic with AEW, both rarely seem to be happy with the ratings. One just straights says it's too low. The other says "no this is a good rating TNT is happy... But if it is low it's because Maple St Cops had their mid season finale".


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

RapShepard said:


> The first is one thing, you're making an excuse using Cinco De Mayo. They planned a big show, did slightly worse than expected, and people are making excuses. There's always an excuse when they slightly underperform. It's the fault of the news, sports, arbor day, some show fared to have a finale, next week it'll be "well it wasn't Blood and Guts".
> 
> The funniest part is the people who constantly shit on AEW and the people who are super optimistic with AEW, both rarely seem to be happy with the ratings. One just straights says it's too low. The other says "no this is a good rating TNT is happy... But if it is low it's because Maple St Cops had their mid season finale".


I guessed 1.15 because I was already factoring in a bit of a drop from Cinco de Mayo, so It wasn't really a super low number for me. Guess that's called being realistic with your expectations. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## RapShepard

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> I guessed 1.15 because I was already factoring in a bit of a drop from Cinco de Mayo, so It wasn't really a super low number for me. Guess that's called being realistic with your expectations.


They did number 1 for the night and somehow Cinco De Mayo still got scapegoated for their number


----------



## 3venflow

RapShepard said:


> The first is one thing, you're making an excuse using Cinco De Mayo.


5/5/97 WWF RAW
5/5/97 WCW Nitro
5/5/03 WWE RAW
5/5/06 WWE Smackdown
5/5/08 WWE RAW
5/5/14 WWE RAW
5/5/16 WWE Smackdown

What do all these shows have in common?

They all lost viewers from the previous week's episode.

Every record of a national wrestling show on May 5th has seen a ratings decline from the previous week.

*It is not an excuse* when a certain holiday or event every years impacts TV ratings *across-the-board *consistently. It's not "oh, there was a football game on" excuse, it's something that affects the TV industry at large. Expecting AEW to evade a decades-long trend, one wrestling has NEVER bucked even in it's hotter days, is crazy.

AEW's rating for a Cinco de Mayo show was very good, hence it being no.1 on cable. But it would have been higher if it wasn't Cinco de Mayo, this is pretty much a 99.9% fact.









Ratings: ‘The Big Bang Theory’ Hits Low as Viewing Levels Tumble on Cinco De Mayo


UPDATED WITH FINALS: On a night that saw television viewing levels take a dive due largely to Cinco De Mayo celebrations, CBS’ “The Big Bang Theory” hit a season low but still eme…




variety.com


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> 5/5/97 WWF RAW
> 5/5/97 WCW Nitro
> 5/5/03 WWE RAW
> 5/5/06 WWE Smackdown
> 5/5/08 WWE RAW
> 5/5/14 WWE RAW
> 5/5/16 WWE Smackdown
> 
> What do all these shows have in common?
> 
> They all lost viewers from the previous week's episode.
> 
> Every record of a national wrestling show on May 5th has seen a ratings decline from another week.
> 
> *It is not an excuse* when a certain holiday or event every years impacts TV ratings *across-the-board *consistently. It's not "oh, there was a football game on" excuse, it's something that affects the TV industry at large. Expecting AEW to evade a decades-long trend, one wrestling has NEVER bucked even in it's hotter days, is crazy.
> 
> *AEW's rating for a Cinco de Mayo show was very good, hence it being no.1 on cable. But it would have been higher if it wasn't Cinco de Mayo*, this is pretty much a 99.9% fact.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ratings: ‘The Big Bang Theory’ Hits Low as Viewing Levels Tumble on Cinco De Mayo
> 
> 
> UPDATED WITH FINALS: On a night that saw television viewing levels take a dive due largely to Cinco De Mayo celebrations, CBS’ “The Big Bang Theory” hit a season low but still eme…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> variety.com


And this is why its an excuse, no matter what happens, there's always an excuse for why more people didn't watch Dynamite. They literally got #1 and yet somehow Cinco De Mayo is still getting the blame lol. 

See @The Wood gets shit because weekly he just says the numbers are shit because it's not a good product and people don't want to watch a shit. Now I disagree the show is fine and they clearly do good numbers. But at least he just flat out states it. 

But clearly the more favorable to AEW side agrees with him on the numbers not being great or ideal. It's hard to take all the 

"TNT just wanted 400k-500k viewers AEW is killing it you're a hater if you don't see it"

As genuine happiness for their ratings. When pretty much every week there's a "yeah they would've got more viewers but...". For people that are allegedly happy with the ratings it's a lot of excuses on why it doesn't do better. Almost as if folk aren't actually happy and proud of the numbers they do. I think a lot of folk actually agree with @The Wood on their numbers should be higher. They just don't want to say that maybe just maybe it's on AEW that their numbers aren't higher. Why blame them when you can blame the entire television landscape and world that exists outside of them. 

Next week it'll be "you can't expect them to follow Blood and Guts with a big number. And the NBA play in Games happened." Then the until the end of June it's " well it's the playoffs".


----------



## Shock Street

RapShepard said:


> And this is why its an excuse, no matter what happens, there's always an excuse for why more people didn't watch Dynamite. They literally got #1 and yet somehow Cinco De Mayo is still getting the blame lol.
> 
> See @The Wood gets shit because weekly he just says the numbers are shit because it's not a good product and people don't want to watch a shit. Now I disagree the show is fine and they clearly do good numbers. But at least he just flat out states it.
> 
> But clearly the more favorable to AEW side agrees with him on the numbers not being great or ideal. It's hard to take all the
> 
> "TNT just wanted 400k-500k viewers AEW is killing it you're a hater if you don't see it"
> 
> As genuine happiness for their ratings. When pretty much every week there's a "yeah they would've got more viewers but...". For people that are allegedly happy with the ratings it's a lot of excuses on why it doesn't do better. Almost as if folk aren't actually happy and proud of the numbers they do. I think a lot of folk actually agree with @The Wood on their numbers should be higher. They just don't want to say that maybe just maybe it's on AEW that their numbers aren't higher. Why blame them when you can blame the entire television landscape and world that exists outside of them.
> 
> Next week it'll be "you can't expect them to follow Blood and Guts with a big number. And the NBA play in Games happened." Then the until the end of June it's " well it's the playoffs".


Isn't saying no excuses count just as extreme as those who post an excuse every week (I may be misunderstanding you)? I agree, people saying season finales and news and minor holidays makes no sense to me... but surely a national drinking (drinking part very key, when people have been holed up for a year and are finally getting their second vaccinations) holiday must make a difference on some level, no? 

This is coming from someone who predicted 740k on the Tyson ep that did 1.2 million. I really try to avoid giving AEW too much leeway, but Cinco is like, one of the 5 days of the year (the others being St Patricks, Thanksgiving, Halloween, and Christmas) I could see actually screwing with the ratings.


----------



## RapShepard

Shock Street said:


> Isn't saying no excuses count just as extreme as those who post an excuse every week (I may be misunderstanding you)? I agree, people saying season finales and news and minor holidays makes no sense to me... but surely a national drinking (drinking part very key, when people have been holed up for a year and are finally getting their second vaccinations) holiday must make a difference on some level, no?
> 
> This is coming from someone who predicted 740k on the Tyson ep that did 1.2 million. I really try to avoid giving AEW too much leeway, but Cinco is like, one of the 5 days of the year (the others being St Patricks, Thanksgiving, Halloween, and Christmas) I could see actually screwing with the ratings.


The issue is there's always an excuse. I totally get that life happens and other TV events happen. But when there's always a reasoning that's out of their control, it starts to become a never ending excuse. They're never going to consistently get weeks where there's no major world news, no major sports being played, no holidays, and no other popular shows airing the same night. So since these things will always exist, it's the job of AEW to adapt and compete. Which they have done well. Which it's why it's unnecessary to point at the fact they compete with everything.


----------



## Shock Street

RapShepard said:


> The issue is there's always an excuse. I totally get that life happens and other TV events happen. But when there's always a reasoning that's out of their control, it starts to become a never ending excuse. They're never going to consistently get weeks where there's no major world news, no major sports being played, no holidays, and no other popular shows airing the same night. So since these things will always exist, it's the job of AEW to adapt and compete. Which they have done well. Which it's why it's unnecessary to point at the fact they compete with everything.


I appreciate the clarification. I agree, it is a bit too much a lot of the time. The news is the one that always gets me... People have phones. They can watch the news and wrestling at the same time. The news doesn't need to be in video form.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

RapShepard said:


> They did number 1 for the night and somehow Cinco De Mayo still got scapegoated for their number


Yeah, they did good,


3venflow said:


> 5/5/97 WWF RAW
> 5/5/97 WCW Nitro
> 5/5/03 WWE RAW
> 5/5/06 WWE Smackdown
> 5/5/08 WWE RAW
> 5/5/14 WWE RAW
> 5/5/16 WWE Smackdown
> 
> What do all these shows have in common?
> 
> They all lost viewers from the previous week's episode.
> 
> Every record of a national wrestling show on May 5th has seen a ratings decline from the previous week.
> 
> *It is not an excuse* when a certain holiday or event every years impacts TV ratings *across-the-board *consistently. It's not "oh, there was a football game on" excuse, it's something that affects the TV industry at large. Expecting AEW to evade a decades-long trend, one wrestling has NEVER bucked even in it's hotter days, is crazy.
> 
> AEW's rating for a Cinco de Mayo show was very good, hence it being no.1 on cable. But it would have been higher if it wasn't Cinco de Mayo, this is pretty much a 99.9% fact.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ratings: ‘The Big Bang Theory’ Hits Low as Viewing Levels Tumble on Cinco De Mayo
> 
> 
> UPDATED WITH FINALS: On a night that saw television viewing levels take a dive due largely to Cinco De Mayo celebrations, CBS’ “The Big Bang Theory” hit a season low but still eme…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> variety.com


This 1000%, it's not an excuse it's just the reality of the situation.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

RapShepard said:


> And this is why its an excuse, no matter what happens, there's always an excuse for why more people didn't watch Dynamite. They literally got #1 and yet somehow Cinco De Mayo is still getting the blame lol.
> 
> See @The Wood gets shit because weekly he just says the numbers are shit because it's not a good product and people don't want to watch a shit. Now I disagree the show is fine and they clearly do good numbers. But at least he just flat out states it.
> 
> But clearly the more favorable to AEW side agrees with him on the numbers not being great or ideal. It's hard to take all the
> 
> "TNT just wanted 400k-500k viewers AEW is killing it you're a hater if you don't see it"
> 
> As genuine happiness for their ratings. When pretty much every week there's a "yeah they would've got more viewers but...". For people that are allegedly happy with the ratings it's a lot of excuses on why it doesn't do better. Almost as if folk aren't actually happy and proud of the numbers they do. I think a lot of folk actually agree with @The Wood on their numbers should be higher. They just don't want to say that maybe just maybe it's on AEW that their numbers aren't higher. Why blame them when you can blame the entire television landscape and world that exists outside of them.
> 
> Next week it'll be "you can't expect them to follow Blood and Guts with a big number. And the NBA play in Games happened." Then the until the end of June it's " well it's the playoffs".


The big problem with this is that you think some people, people like myself, think this was a bad number or that I'm personally invested in the numbers. Unless they're completely in the toilet and the show is at risk of getting cancelled a plus or minus of 100-200k viewers from week to week doesn't really matter.

What's important to me is trying to understand the why, because I'm a dork that likes history and looking at, graphs, charts, heat maps, demographic shifts and long term trends -- it's something I find interesting outside of wrestling.

What's annoying is people claiming it's excuses or fanboyism when it's just looking at what's actually happening. How can you call something an excuse when as @3venflow pointed out it's a _known_ factor in viewership among 18-49 year olds and has been for a decade plus. That's just being willfully ignorant imo.


----------



## RapShepard

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> The big problem with this is that you think some people, people like myself, think this was a bad number or that I'm personally invested in the numbers. Unless they're completely in the toilet and the show is at risk of getting cancelled a plus or minus of 100-200k viewers from week to week doesn't really matter.
> 
> What's important to me is trying to understand the why, because I'm a dork that likes history and looking at, graphs, charts, heat maps, demographic shifts and long term trends -- it's something I find interesting outside of wrestling.
> 
> What's annoying is people claiming it's excuses or fanboyism when it's just looking at what's actually happening. How can you call something an excuse when as @3venflow pointed out it's a _known_ factor in viewership among 18-49 year olds and has been for a decade plus. That's just being willfully ignorant imo.


Because it's an excuse, every week there's some reason for why more people that totally would've watched, didn't watch. Last week it was Cinco De Mayo, this week it'll be because it's not Blood and Guts.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Because it's an excuse, every week there's some reason for why more people that totally would've watched, didn't watch. Last week it was Cinco De Mayo, this week it'll be because it's not Blood and Guts.


i feel somebody should clarify that ‘discussing potential reasons‘ is not an excuse

its a discussion - its why this thread is here


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i feel somebody should clarify that ‘discussing potential reasons‘ is not an excuse
> 
> its a discussion - its why this thread is here


An excuse can still be part of a discussion. But when every week there's some reason why more people didn't watch Dynamite that normally would've and those reasons are always external reasons, excuses are being made.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> An excuse can still be part of a discussion. But when every week there's some reason why more people didn't watch Dynamite that normally would've and those reasons are always external reasons, excuses are being made.


its a strange hill to die on mate.

if somebody said the following statements - ‘AEW went from 750k average to 1.1m average and it had nothing to do with - NXT moving nights, MTV challenge coming to an end, off-season for NBA’ - i would tell them they are kooky

conversely, the same must hold true. There will be reasons why ratings go down - and discussing them, is not an excuse - its just a discussion. Outside things will affect it (or booking things of course too - like blood and guts being too gory for women or whatever)

if none of the above is true, then give TK the 2021 Booker award, because he grew his show by 35% from outta nowhere


----------



## The Wood

Martyn said:


> Sure, both Dynamite and SmackDown had gimmicked shows last week. Just saying that WWE always went back to their old school shows or legends nights in order to bring in more viewers. Either way, total viewership means absolutely nothing. Theres a reason why theres so much talk about 18-49 demographic and if you look at the top charts on cable, all the shows are being classified by their 18-49 numbers, not total viewership. There are situations where a show with over 3 million total ends up on the 15th place or so and a show with 700k total and a healthier 18-49 gets the number 1 spot. Therefore, I would bet that the situation will be very interesting by the next time they negotiate. Just imagine being in the shoes of FOX. Theyre paying a billion for a show that does lets say 600k in 18-49, whereas TNT pays 170 million for a show that does 400k. Its obvious that FOX is overpaying for its product and TNT got really lucky with AEW. If AEW would be on FOX, they would also get a significant bump in ratings just like SmackDown did with the move from the USA to FOX.


That demo is talked about by Meltzer and the Showbuzz charts. They’re not of primary concern to Nielsen, advertisers or anyone else. This is a smokescreen that I believe I have debunked many times, with people just saying “Nuh-uh” when they don’t like it.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> its a strange hill to die on mate.
> 
> if somebody said the following statements - ‘AEW went from 750k average to 1.1m average and it had nothing to do with - NXT moving nights, MTV challenge coming to an end, off-season for NBA’ - i would tell them they are kooky
> 
> conversely, the same must hold true. There will be reasons why ratings go down - and discussing them, is not an excuse - its just a discussion. Outside things will affect it (or booking things of course too - like blood and guts being too gory for women or whatever)
> 
> if none of the above is true, then give TK the 2021 Booker award, because he grew his show by 35% from outta nowhere


Again a discussion can be had and excuses still be made. They compete with TV and life in general, I get that. But there's rarely a look at the content they produce when they have downs. The content is praised and examined when it goes up. But when they have downs it's rarely because "hey maybe they aren't putting on good wrestling" as a key factor. Those cases it's about how "well other things happened on TV or in life and that's the real reason numbers underwhelmed".


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Again a discussion can be had and excuses still be made. They compete with TV and life in general, I get that. But there's rarely a look at the content they produce when they have downs. The content is praised and examined when it goes up. But when they have downs it's rarely because "hey maybe they aren't putting on good wrestling" as a key factor. Those cases it's about how "well other things happened on TV or in life and that's the real reason numbers underwhelmed".


but a show rarely loses viewers on the night

we all see the quarterlies / it is rare for them to drop any segment by more than 10% at any given time vs the prior

their lead in number that they start with is often carried to the end (within 10%) - regardless if there was a hot pile of garbage on in a segment

so, then if you want to discuss how the quality of the show affects the numbers - well, you’ll first have to discount outside factors - since we established they do affect numbers / then disregard what is on-screen on the night

and by process of elimination really just talk about ‘how bad was last week’s show so that X amount less people tuned in’

that is a hard ask. IMO - the whole thing is worth discussing / otherwise what is the point

the same holds true for when they go up.


----------



## taker_2004

RapShepard said:


> Again a discussion can be had and excuses still be made. They compete with TV and life in general, I get that. But there's rarely a look at the content they produce when they have downs. The content is praised and examined when it goes up. But when they have downs it's rarely because "hey maybe they aren't putting on good wrestling" as a key factor. Those cases it's about how "well other things happened on TV or in life and that's the real reason numbers underwhelmed".


But can't both be true in both instances? You're right, AEW is always in competition for the attention of consumers, not only with other TV shows, but real life events, video games, social media etc. So, when ratings change, whether positively or negatively, it's always to do with consumer's interest in the product _relative_ to other options for entertainment. So, like @LifeInCattleClass said, there can be reasons, both internal and external that affect ratings. Obviously, though, there's nothing AEW can do about its competition, it can only improve its own content. 

I just think "excuse" has the connotation of lacking any validity, which it might. But you'd need to compare year-on-year data (whether previous years also saw a similar dip in ratings) and against other competition. If there were several million less viewers during Cinco de Mayo and/or AEW has a strong latino following, that could very well be a valid reason. Alternatively, it could just be an excuse like you said.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> but a show rarely loses viewers on the night
> 
> we all see the quarterlies / it is rare for them to drop any segment by more than 10% at any given time vs the prior
> 
> their lead in number that they start with is often carried to the end (within 10%) - regardless if there was a hot pile of garbage on in a segment
> 
> so, then if you want to discuss how the quality of the show affects the numbers - well, you’ll first have to discount outside factors - since we established they do affect numbers / then disregard what is on-screen on the night
> 
> and by process of elimination really just talk about ‘how bad was last week’s show so that X amount less people tuned in’
> 
> that is a hard ask. IMO - the whole thing is worth discussing / otherwise what is the point
> 
> the same holds true for when they go up.


But outside factors aren't worth much discussion as they can't control those shows and forces. But if they are the discussion should be "hey what do they do to lure in or keep viewers from ___ show" it shouldn't be a resignation that they can't possibly compete with other shows. 

But the real discussion is on how they produce a show that consistently does good ratings, which they've accomplished. They now have the discussion of how do they produce a show that brings in more viewers to the show. 

Those above are worthwhile discussions worth having. "well of course they didn't do as well because The Challenge was on" is a defeatist excuse to avoid discussing why there viewers would rather watch The Challenge


----------



## RapShepard

taker_2004 said:


> But can't both be true in both instances? You're right, AEW is always in competition for the attention of consumers, not only with other TV shows, but real life events, video games, social media etc. So, when ratings change, whether positively or negatively, it's always to do with consumer's interest in the product _relative_ to other options for entertainment. So, like @LifeInCattleClass said, there can be reasons, both internal and external that affect ratings. Obviously, though, there's nothing AEW can do about its competition, it can only improve its own content.
> 
> I just think "excuse" has the connotation of lacking any validity, which it might. But you'd need to compare year-on-year data (whether previous years also saw a similar dip in ratings) and against other competition. If there were several million less viewers during Cinco de Mayo and/or AEW has a strong latino following, that could very well be a valid reason. Alternatively, it could just be an excuse like you said.


Its an excuse because it's thrown out to avoid discussing what AEW produces themselves. " This other big show aired" and "major world event happened" are almost never paired with "but also AEW haven't been doing X, Y, and Z to encourage people to keep interested so maybe that's why the ratings dropped as well". 

Think of it like a post game or post fight press conference. It's one thing for an athlete bring up nagging injuries and such. Because they're all probably hurt. But if they never get around to saying "but hey here's also why I lost or why the opponent won" then there reason is just an excuse.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

RapShepard said:


> Because it's an excuse, every week there's some reason for why more people that totally would've watched, didn't watch. Last week it was Cinco De Mayo, this week it'll be because it's not Blood and Guts.


This week I'm actually expecting about the same without Cinco de Mayo or Blood and Guts. Last week was a boost with Blood and Guts, but was equaled out with Cinco de Mayo. I'm gonna say 1.1-1.5 and number 1 for the night. I'm just trying to get an accurate estimate on viewership based on the facts -- instead of just throwing out high ball or lowball nonsense.


----------



## Prosper

Cinco de Mayo excuse or not, I know I was out drinking lol, watched Blood and Guys drunk af 😂

Cant speak for everyone else though.


----------



## RapShepard

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> This week I'm actually expecting about the same without Cinco de Mayo or Blood and Guts. Last week was a boost with Blood and Guts, but was equaled out with Cinco de Mayo. I'm gonna say 1.1-1.5 and number 1 for the night. I'm just trying to get an accurate estimate on viewership based on the facts -- instead of just throwing out high ball or lowball nonsense.


That's a fair guess. As the ratings prediction game shows I'm a terrible guess. I could see the 1.1 or 900k.


----------



## Klitschko

What's our excuse this week guys? 


There was other stuff on television. Does that one work for now?


----------



## Martyn

The Wood said:


> That demo is talked about by Meltzer and the Showbuzz charts. They’re not of primary concern to Nielsen, advertisers or anyone else. This is a smokescreen that I believe I have debunked many times, with people just saying “Nuh-uh” when they don’t like it.


What you're trying to say here doesn't make sense at all. 18-49 demographic is the one who's the most likely to buy the goods advertisers are promoting during commercial breaks. That's why the Top on cable charts are based *only* on that particular demo. Its logical. 

Not only Meltzer or other reporters stated the obvious, but Tony Khan said it himself that this is the only demo that matters. 






Key demographic - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org









Nielsen ratings - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





That being said my points are valid. The whole discussion of total viewers doesnt really matter. Its 18-49 that brings in the revenue.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

RapShepard said:


> That's a fair guess. As the ratings prediction game shows I'm a terrible guess. I could see the 1.1 or 900k.


That's fair enough. Numbers are going to go up numbers are going to go down, week to week. It's no major skin off my back. I thought last week was a good number and realistic based on the boost from Blood and Guts and the drop from Cinco de Mayo.

That's the thing, I'm just trying to look at why things move in the ways they do, and find what the number actually looks like. The truth will eventually be borne out by long term trends, but in the mean time I just find it interesting to discuss broader and more understood factors, rather than more subjective things like "x, y or z aren't a draw because I don't like them." If someone is going to make that argument, then they should at least have some evidence.


----------



## The Wood

Martyn said:


> What you're trying to say here doesn't make sense at all. 18-49 demographic is the one who's the most likely to buy the goods advertisers are promoting during commercial breaks. That's why the Top on cable charts are based *only* on that particular demo. Its logical.
> 
> Not only Meltzer or other reporters stated the obvious, but Tony Khan said it himself that this is the only demo that matters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Key demographic - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nielsen ratings - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That being said my points are valid. The whole discussion of total viewers doesnt really matter. Its 18-49 that brings in the revenue.


No, it doesn’t. Tony Khan is a promoter. He’s going to lie through his teeth about whatever makes him look good. So is Dave Meltzer. The key demo may have been advertisers’ best clues a couple of decades ago, but socio-economics have likely changed, and advertisers get way more detailed break-downs.

Ethnicity, gender, income, sexuality and social activity determines the value of advertising, which is all the ratings are there for. If it were as simple as using a Showbull chart, either a monkey or a computer would have taken the job. This is a qualifier that the wrestling world still clings to for some reason.

I go by viewership, because cable is dying, so I think it’s a useful gauge of popularity within the medium. A poster who actually works in television here has spoken to the value of women as the major influencers. AEW sucks when it comes to women.

But no. The demo stuff can be dismissed with a bit of common sense. Why would advertisers care about appealing to 500k fat white men in their 40’s? Think about it.

On whether or not Cinco de Mayo is an excuse: Of course it is. Everything is used as an excuse. Even things that wouldn’t have an impact (like the news, which exists on a 24/7 cycle and on people’s phones). Life happens. AEW needs to compete against something every day.

But let’s not pretend this was introduced as a harmless talking point either. This was introduced as “I’m not a fanboy, this is just the data.” No.


----------



## CM Buck

Garty said:


> *I knew before I even scrolled down the page, that putting these numbers on here would 1000% lead to a certain user, poo-pooing them, up and down, left and right. See below...
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, just as I had predicted... *


Mate, I give you plenty of leeway when you and wood get into it because you both make good points in your disputes before you guys become annoying and I have to step in. But come the fuck on with this post.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

The Wood said:


> Everything is used as an excuse. Even things that wouldn’t have an impact (like the news, which exists on a 24/7 cycle and on people’s phones). Life happens. AEW needs to compete against something every day.
> 
> But let’s not pretend this was introduced as a harmless talking point either. This was introduced as “I’m not a fanboy, this is just the data.” No.


Lol, yeah no shit life happens and things outside of wrestling do effect ratings, for all shows. For some reason it sounds like you want to pretend that they don't? 

Fact is AEW is competing and has done top 10, top 5, top 3 for the night against strong competition for almost their entire run. That doesn't mean that there aren't factors at play that are interesting to discuss.

For some reason you like to play willfully ignorant to reality and then play off any discussion as being lies and excuses by just saying, _No_ -- as if that actually meant anything. 

You're not stupid so why keep denying facts?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> But outside factors aren't worth much discussion as they can't control those shows and forces. But if they are the discussion should be "hey what do they do to lure in or keep viewers from ___ show" it shouldn't be a resignation that they can't possibly compete with other shows.
> 
> But the real discussion is on how they produce a show that consistently does good ratings, which they've accomplished. They now have the discussion of how do they produce a show that brings in more viewers to the show.
> 
> Those above are worthwhile discussions worth having. "well of course they didn't do as well because The Challenge was on" is a defeatist excuse to avoid discussing why there viewers would rather watch The Challenge


ehhh.... nobody knows how to produce a show to get more viewers / it hasn’t been done in the last 10 years

definitely not the people in this forum / it just leads to fanatasy booking and negging on things / or bumping up things people thought lost viewers or draws viewers - which is why this thread is a shitshow

but discussing outside factors can be more easily judged.

‘nxt moved and they went up? ‘ - very easy discussion

’book more sports-based wrestling by having FTR wrestle every main event’ - unproven, opinion-based, fantasy booking

But if i was going to go down that rabbit hole, then i think they’ll draw more by putting the championship on Cody 🤷‍♂️

see how the responses to that statement goes down


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ps> wait.... is anybody saying blood and guts did a bad rating?

number 1 on the night can never be bad


----------



## The Wood

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Lol, yeah no shit life happens and things outside of wrestling do effect ratings, for all shows. For some reason it sounds like you want to pretend that they don't?
> 
> Fact is AEW is competing and has done top 10, top 5, top 3 for the night against strong competition for almost their entire run. That doesn't mean that there aren't factors at play that are interesting to discuss.
> 
> For some reason you like to play willfully ignorant to reality and then play off any discussion as being lies and excuses by just saying, _No_ -- as if that actually meant anything.
> 
> You're not stupid so why keep denying facts?


It’s only in that position if you rate by archaic demo. I don’t think things like the news does affect the rating. Blood & Guts did what Blood & Guts did. It’s not “data” that it should have done better. It did what it did.

I’ve never said that nothing will affect ratings. I’ve made the argument why the news doesn’t (and have had Brandon Thurston indirectly back me up). I’m not as enamoured with “people have other things they’d rather do” as excuses for why the rating is what it is.

And no, no one actually said that it was “bad.” I’m personally not impressed by AEW’s rating, but I didn’t say it was bad. Rap explicitly stated he thinks their ratings are good. These are just straw-men to distract from being called on making the excuse that life happens like it’s a powerful one.


----------



## Geert Wilders

986k tonight


----------



## Aedubya

.95


----------



## Martyn

The Wood said:


> No, it doesn’t. Tony Khan is a promoter. He’s going to lie through his teeth about whatever makes him look good. So is Dave Meltzer. The key demo may have been advertisers’ best clues a couple of decades ago, but socio-economics have likely changed, and advertisers get way more detailed break-downs.
> 
> Ethnicity, gender, income, sexuality and social activity determines the value of advertising, which is all the ratings are there for. If it were as simple as using a Showbull chart, either a monkey or a computer would have taken the job. This is a qualifier that the wrestling world still clings to for some reason.
> 
> I go by viewership, because cable is dying, so I think it’s a useful gauge of popularity within the medium. A poster who actually works in television here has spoken to the value of women as the major influencers. AEW sucks when it comes to women.
> 
> But no. The demo stuff can be dismissed with a bit of common sense. Why would advertisers care about appealing to 500k fat white men in their 40’s? Think about it.


Did you read through the links I've posted here earlier about Nielsen ratings and key demographics?
It's all explained there. Or are those sources fake as well?

Fat white guys in their 40s fit into the algorithm of 18-49 demo, that's being viewed as the one with the most disposable income.

Why the charts of Top 150 shows on cable are decided by 18-49 demo? Is it another conspiracy theory of Meltzer, Khan (lol at stating that he's not honest about his TV shows ratings) and I dont know who else, maybe flat earthers?

Maybe bring in some raw data and keep your guesses and false judgments aside.


----------



## Not Lying

If Cinco de Mayo had a 20% drop across TV, how is it not something that affects rating. Lol people cry excuse instead of addressing facts. 

It’s not an excuse if someone says « if it wasn’t CDM the ratings would be higher », it’s a bloody fact.


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> If Cinco de Mayo had a 20% drop across TV, how is it not something that affects rating. Lol people cry excuse instead of addressing facts.
> 
> It’s not an excuse if someone says « if it wasn’t CDM the ratings would be higher », it’s a bloody fact.


It's an excuse when weekly there's a reason why more people didn't watch Dynamite.


----------



## Not Lying

RapShepard said:


> It's an excuse when weekly there's a reason why more people didn't watch Dynamite.


Call it an excuse if you want, but you know damn well it’s a fact. The stats and ratings are right there to see. 
If AEW does does sub-800K at a 4th pf July, you’re not gona admit its because of the holiday?


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> Call it an excuse if you want, but you know damn well it’s a fact. The stats and ratings are right there to see.
> If AEW does does sub-800K at a 4th pf July, you’re not gona admit its because of the holiday?


It's very simple when weekly there's a reason why Dynamite didn't do a bigger number, things like holidays no longer get a pass because there's always a reason Dynamite didn't get a bigger number. Fact is people found something better to do than watch Blood & Guts.


----------



## Not Lying

RapShepard said:


> It's very simple when weekly there's a reason why Dynamite didn't do a bigger number, things like holidays no longer get a pass because there's always a reason Dynamite didn't get a bigger number. Fact is people found something better to do than watch Blood & Guts.


nah it’s not that simple and black and white. 
1- There’s no weekly excuse.
2- Holidays and News affect ratings. 

Don’t be mad when people point out facts.There’s obviously stuff that don’t happen often that affect the ratings when they do.

Did you see people making excuses when the week following the first unnoposed show went from 1.2 to 1.1m? 
No? then point proven.


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> nah it’s not that simple and black and white.
> 1- There’s no weekly excuse.
> 2- Holidays and News affect ratings.
> 
> Don’t be mad when people point out facts.There’s obviously stuff that don’t happen often that affect the ratings when they do.
> 
> Did you see people making excuses when the week following the first unnoposed show went from 1.2 to 1.1m?
> No? then point proven.


You're following the conversation. Anytime they're seen to have underwhelmed there's an excuse on it. At some point you can't blame everything but them for a supposedly underwhelming rating.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Sorry @The Definition of Technician - only talking points approved here as by @RapShepard 

all others are deemed 'excuses' - please stick to the script.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Sorry @The Definition of Technician - only talking points approved here as by @RapShepard
> 
> all others are deemed 'excuses' - please stick to the script.


Nah say what you please, excuses will be deemed excuses


----------



## .christopher.

@RapShepard better be careful. If he carries on @LifeInCattleClass will make a cartoon out of him.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Nah say what you please, excuses will be deemed excuses


'by the power invested in me'

yessir






please hold the same energy when they inevitably rise and people come up with external excuses that is not 'great booking TK' for the reason

i'll make a mental note of it and we can refer back to this convo


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 'by the power invested in me'
> 
> yessir
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> please hold the same energy when they inevitably rise and people come up with external excuses that is not 'great booking TK' for the reason
> 
> i'll make a mental note of it and we can refer back to this convo


I call @The Wood out consistently for not giving their numbers credit. Hell I'm consistently in this thread saying "they're a top 10 show weekly clearly they're doing well by today's standards".


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> I call @The Wood out consistently for not giving their numbers credit. Hell I'm consistently in this thread saying "they're a top 10 show weekly clearly they're doing well by today's standards".


so... wait

if the positive people cannot talk about external factors... and the negative people cannot talk about external factors

then what are we supposed to talk about it here? JUST booking?

again mate - you do you, but that sounds boring to me


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> so... wait
> 
> if the positive people cannot talk about external factors... and the negative people cannot talk about external factors
> 
> then what are we supposed to talk about it here? JUST booking?
> 
> again mate - you do you, but that sounds boring to me


Again discussions can include excuses, but an excuse is still an excuse. You just don't like the term excuse, that's not my problem. If you want to blame Cinco De Mayo and The Finale of Guy Fieri's Grocery Games for their ratings cool. I'mma just say it's an excuse because it is.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Again discussions can include excuses, but an excuse is still an excuse. You just don't like the term excuse, that's not my problem. If you want to blame Cinco De Mayo and The Finale of Guy Fieri's Grocery Games for their ratings cool. I'mma just say it's an excuse because it is.


so, instead of 'reason' you just label it 'excuse'

its a real glass half-empty thing you have going there mate

deeming something an 'excuse' is a predecessor to confrontation and arguments - because you are poo-pooing someones discussion point. so, don't be shocked when people get irked with you


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Here is your homework reading for the day @RapShepard 









The Difference Between a Reason and an Excuse


“I can’t fucking stand people who don’t know the difference between a ‘reason’ and an ‘excuse,’” says redditor raspberrykoolaid, talking about those repugnant people who can’t sympathize with any problem they haven’t faced themselves, and think that everyone else is just offering excuses. You...




lifehacker.com


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> so, instead of 'reason' you just label it 'excuse'
> 
> its a real glass half-empty thing you have going there mate
> 
> deeming something an 'excuse' is a predecessor to confrontation and arguments - because you are poo-pooing someones discussion point. so, don't be shocked when people get irked with you


They could be reasons, if these reasons weren't damn near weekly to the point now they're excuses.

You're late to work one day because traffic, car trouble, kid issues, or waking up late that's a reason. You're late to work damn near daily because of traffic, car trouble, kid issues, or waking up late now you're just making excuses for being late to work.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Here is your homework reading for the day @RapShepard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Difference Between a Reason and an Excuse
> 
> 
> “I can’t fucking stand people who don’t know the difference between a ‘reason’ and an ‘excuse,’” says redditor raspberrykoolaid, talking about those repugnant people who can’t sympathize with any problem they haven’t faced themselves, and think that everyone else is just offering excuses. You...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lifehacker.com


Article is useless I know the difference between a reason and excuse. You're just annoyed I'm calling the excuses what they are, excuses. At some point people's disappointment in AEW's ratings has to be attributed to them and not everything else.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> They could be reasons, if these reasons weren't damn near weekly to the point now they're excuses.
> 
> You're late to work one day because traffic, car trouble, kid issues, or waking up late that's a reason. You're late to work damn near daily because of traffic, car trouble, kid issues, or waking up late now you're just making excuses for being late to work.


they can't be excuses - its a discussion forum

by their very nature they are a discussion and a potential 'reason' - and excuse normally only enters the fray when you have skin in the game

none of us do


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Article is useless I know the difference between a reason and excuse. You're just annoyed I'm calling the excuses what they are, excuses. At some point people's disappointment in AEW's ratings has to be attributed to them and not everything else.


... but who is disappointed?

they have been going gangbusters since NXT moved - there is literally zero reason for being dissapointed


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Article is useless *I know the difference between a reason and excuse.* You're just annoyed I'm calling the excuses what they are, excuses. At some point people's disappointment in AEW's ratings has to be attributed to them and not everything else.


going by the last 30 min, I am not so sure

but I digress, this will just go into the normal Rap-black-hole of circle discussion


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> they can't be excuses - its a discussion forum
> 
> by their very nature they are a discussion and a potential 'reason' - and excuse normally only enters the fray when you have skin in the game
> 
> none of us do


Again an excuse can be apart of a discussion. You see it all the time on sports debates shows


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Again an excuse can be apart of a discussion. You see it all the time on sports debates shows


sure - but an excuse follows normally a pattern after repeated bad performance

ie> dropping 10% every week over the course of a year and pointing to all things not internal - sure... and excuse

but they are not there - there has not been months of underperformance and continued drops

as you rightly said - they perform quite well by today's standards

so you have to allow somewhat, that at least 80% of the discussions on here regarding ratings - positive or negative is in fact 'reasons' and not 'excuses' - because there is frankly no reason to make an excuse for ok to good performance

edit> PS> I am very far from annoyed - they are building stairs at my house, and I can't work - so I am bored. Make of that what you will - a reason or an excuse for having this discussion


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> sure - but an excuse follows normally a pattern after repeated bad performance
> 
> ie> dropping 10% every week over the course of a year and pointing to all things not internal - sure... and excuse
> 
> but they are not there - there has not been months of underperformance and continued drops
> 
> as you rightly said - they perform quite well by today's standards
> 
> so you have to allow somewhat, that at least 80% of the discussions on here regarding ratings - positive or negative is in fact 'reasons' and not 'excuses' - because there is frankly no reason to make an excuse for ok to good performance
> 
> edit> PS> I am very far from annoyed - they are building stairs at my house, and I can't work - so I am bored. Make of that what you will - a reason or an excuse for having this discussion


Oh I'm sure you're not literally annoyed, but this is forum speak. Like I said I wouldn't see it as an excuse if it was an occasional blame of outside circumstances. Its the consistency on why they didn't do better when they're doing more than fine. It's basically like a player that consistently drops 25 talking about why they didn't drop 30 After every game.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Oh I'm sure you're not literally annoyed, but this is forum speak. Like I said I wouldn't see it as an excuse if it was an occasional blame of outside circumstances. Its the consistency on why they didn't do better when they're doing more than fine. It's basically like a player that consistently drops 25 talking about why they didn't drop 30 After every game.


isn't it about perspective though?

you have to consider the starting point of the individual - IMO, anything below consistent 800k and 0.25 would be considered under-performance

so - if I discuss anything around drops etc, it will almost always have to do with external factors or one or two stupid calls / booking - definitely not an over-all underperformance. Because they are where they should be (again IMO)

but to determine if something is just pure discussion / reason or excuse - you kinda have to gauge where the individuals' expectations lie to start with - and if they are realistic

its a hard ask


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> isn't it about perspective though?
> 
> you have to consider the starting point of the individual - IMO, anything below consistent 800k and 0.25 would be considered under-performance
> 
> so - if I discuss anything around drops etc, it will almost always have to do with external factors or one or two stupid calls / booking - definitely not an over-all underperformance. Because they are where they should be (again IMO)
> 
> but to determine if something is just pure discussion / reason or excuse - you kinda have to gauge where the individuals' expectations lie to start with - and if they are realistic
> 
> its a hard ask


I feel it. I view it as this. 

When folk don't give them credit based on numbers of decades based or an unfair clearly hard to unobtain that's making excuses. 

I also see what I've already discussed as excuses. 

These things still make for good heated discussions. Just feels like excuses for me.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> I feel it. I view it as this.
> 
> When folk don't give them credit based on numbers of decades based or an unfair clearly hard to unobtain that's making excuses.
> 
> I also see what I've already discussed as excuses.
> 
> These things still make for good heated discussions. Just feels like excuses for me.


you like a good barny, that‘s your problem


----------



## 3venflow

NXT down to 697k with 0.17 in the key demo this week. I remember some resident experts saying the move would benefit them more than AEW. 

There's a bigger ratings gap between the two products now than when they were opposed.


----------



## rbl85

3venflow said:


> NXT down to 697k with 0.17 in the key demo this week. I remember some resident experts saying the move would benefit them more than AEW.
> 
> There's a bigger ratings gap between the two products now than when they were opposed.


Why do you post about NXT here, no reasons to do it anymore.

There is a topic for that in the NXT section.


----------



## 3venflow

rbl85 said:


> Why do you post about NXT here, no reasons to do it anymore.


Because the so-called 'Wednesday Night Wars' are still a recent thing and there has been a lot of interest and discussion in this very thread about how the two brands will compare when the move happened. I remember one Australian resident in particular saying NXT would benefit more than AEW.

In a year's time, it'll be pretty irrelevant but both products are still fresh off going unopposed and only one seems to be majorly benefiting from it right now.

It's also still more on-topic than half of the back and forth in this thread. 

Also, the NXT board is pretty dead.


----------



## The Wood

3venflow said:


> NXT down to 697k with 0.17 in the key demo this week. I remember some resident experts saying the move would benefit them more than AEW.
> 
> There's a bigger ratings gap between the two products now than when they were opposed.


Let’s see how AEW does first. I seem to recall people bragging about Dynamite beating Raw, then they fell to 889k.


----------



## Garty

Martyn said:


> What you're trying to say here doesn't make sense at all. 18-49 demographic is the one who's the most likely to buy the goods advertisers are promoting during commercial breaks. That's why the Top on cable charts are based *only* on that particular demo. Its logical.
> 
> Not only Meltzer or other reporters stated the obvious, but Tony Khan said it himself that this is the only demo that matters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Key demographic - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nielsen ratings - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That being said my points are valid. The whole discussion of total viewers doesnt really matter. Its 18-49 that brings in the revenue.


@Firefromthegods Before you pull your hair out, I'm using these Wood quotes on ratings and demos talked about with other users then, so that this user now, can have something to push-back against.

*November 2019*

_- "*Only thing really holding for AEW so far is the 18-39 demo, which is good*, but potentially temporary"_


_
"I explained why overall viewers matter. To use your logic it’s why they count them. Otherwise, why even give boxes to people outside your precious demo? You’re turning “it doesn’t matter as much in many cases” to “it doesn’t matter in any case, or these cases, therefore it doesn’t matter here.” I’m saying “nah, this is why that doesn’t hold up.” You’re making the claim pal. *Find me evidence that TNT only cares about the 18-39 demo and nothing else. I’m going by common sense until then*"
"Please give me some real data I am ignoring. You keep saying this, yet the next thing out of your mouth is the assertion that TNT does not care about viewership, only the demo rating. That is pretty bold. Citation needed"
"*Is anyone else confused by the concept of the 18-39 demo being important but not being the only factor?* Does the idea that even a high demo rating with low viewership can still be a warning sign baffle anyone else? Or is everyone else going to stick their fingers in their ears are just think “Ooh, high demo rating this week! Things are only going to go up! They must be killing in the advertising?”
*Where did I ever say that demo share doesn’t matter? Oh, wait—I didn’t. You are making that up.* The demo is used as a mythic artefact by people way too much. It is an anachronistic way of looking at things given that television and media have changed so much. Key demos vary depending on who people are targeting.
*Have you ever thought about why the 18-39 is so desired?* It’s because they are more frivolous and have more disposable income. That frivolity is what you have to be careful of and enhances why viewers are important. You cannot count on retaining that younger audience. “Hey, we do well with young people” is really “Hey, we do really well with young people...for the moment,” but anyone who knows what they’re talking about re: television knows that old saying?
You’ve done a sneaky in that you are trying to use the once heralded golden demo as an excuse to dismiss viewership in general. *You’re trying to get me to say that 18-54 are not important. I’m not going to say that. But what you are actually saying, and you actually have said this, is that the other viewers don’t matter. That is false*"
"*Yes, demo ratings are important, but they are not the be-all, end-all*. Being on cable, being wrestling, its overall viewership, new media and competition are going to affect those numbers. *Anyone saying “the demo rating is good, therefore they’ve got nothing to worry about”* are making a lot of archaic and short-sighted assumptions as we approach 2020"
_


Compare those bolded, with what he said recently:

*February 2021*

- _"*I don’t think anyone really puts any stock into Showbuzz Daily or the 18-39 demo for wrestling*. They’re quite shit in actual viewership"_

This is not a smear post. This user needed... here comes that word again, "evidence", to talk to a guy who doesn't want to hear other people's opinions, or facts. It's quite the contrast that as the months go on, Wood's constantly moving, or completely removed the goalposts, to fit a narrative and agenda he's had with AEW since day freakin' one. There has been NO ONE here, that has as much negative  to say as he does. And again, THAT has always been my argument against it.


----------



## The Wood

Garty said:


> @Firefromthegods Before you pull your hair out, I'm using these Wood quotes on ratings and demos talked about with other users then, so that this user now, can have something to push-back against.
> 
> *November 2019*
> 
> _- "*Only thing really holding for AEW so far is the 18-39 demo, which is good*, but potentially temporary"_
> 
> 
> _
> "I explained why overall viewers matter. To use your logic it’s why they count them. Otherwise, why even give boxes to people outside your precious demo? You’re turning “it doesn’t matter as much in many cases” to “it doesn’t matter in any case, or these cases, therefore it doesn’t matter here.” I’m saying “nah, this is why that doesn’t hold up.” You’re making the claim pal. *Find me evidence that TNT only cares about the 18-39 demo and nothing else. I’m going by common sense until then*"
> "Please give me some real data I am ignoring. You keep saying this, yet the next thing out of your mouth is the assertion that TNT does not care about viewership, only the demo rating. That is pretty bold. Citation needed"
> "*Is anyone else confused by the concept of the 18-39 demo being important but not being the only factor?* Does the idea that even a high demo rating with low viewership can still be a warning sign baffle anyone else? Or is everyone else going to stick their fingers in their ears are just think “Ooh, high demo rating this week! Things are only going to go up! They must be killing in the advertising?”
> *Where did I ever say that demo share doesn’t matter? Oh, wait—I didn’t. You are making that up.* The demo is used as a mythic artefact by people way too much. It is an anachronistic way of looking at things given that television and media have changed so much. Key demos vary depending on who people are targeting.
> *Have you ever thought about why the 18-39 is so desired?* It’s because they are more frivolous and have more disposable income. That frivolity is what you have to be careful of and enhances why viewers are important. You cannot count on retaining that younger audience. “Hey, we do well with young people” is really “Hey, we do really well with young people...for the moment,” but anyone who knows what they’re talking about re: television knows that old saying?
> You’ve done a sneaky in that you are trying to use the once heralded golden demo as an excuse to dismiss viewership in general. *You’re trying to get me to say that 18-54 are not important. I’m not going to say that. But what you are actually saying, and you actually have said this, is that the other viewers don’t matter. That is false*"
> "*Yes, demo ratings are important, but they are not the be-all, end-all*. Being on cable, being wrestling, its overall viewership, new media and competition are going to affect those numbers. *Anyone saying “the demo rating is good, therefore they’ve got nothing to worry about”* are making a lot of archaic and short-sighted assumptions as we approach 2020"
> _
> 
> 
> Compare those bolded, with what he said recently:
> 
> *February 2021*
> 
> - _"*I don’t think anyone really puts any stock into Showbuzz Daily or the 18-39 demo for wrestling*. They’re quite shit in actual viewership"_
> 
> This is not a smear post. This user needed... here comes that word again, "evidence", to talk to a guy who doesn't want to hear other people's opinions, or facts. It's quite the contrast that as the months go on, Wood's constantly moving, or completely removed the goalposts, to fit a narrative and agenda he's had with AEW since day freakin' one. There has been NO ONE here, that has as much negative  to say as he does. And again, THAT has always been my argument against it.


I’m not even going to read all of that, but am going to take a what I catch a glimpse. Yes, I said the thing holding for them was the demo. Was I wrong? Never mind then and now — but am I wrong? Viewership fell, women fell. All that holds true is the demo, which does depend on what advertisers place in it. WHICH I argue isn’t as important as wrestling fans on the internet make it out to be. And provide my reasons why (never been battled by the way).

There’s nothing incoherent about that. At all. Never mind people changing their minds with more education. To say the demo is holding and then to question its relevancy is not inconsistent.

And yes this is a smear campaign. You get so obsessed with trying to catch me in a gotcha that you don’t even read what you’re quoting. Go home, Garty. Or take it to Rants and give me rent there.


----------



## Martyn

This discussion is really funny and I'm surprised you guys are going at it since 2019, lol.

I wish mr Wood would finally respond to my earlier post with some raw data backing his understanding of TV industry up.


----------



## The Wood

Martyn said:


> This discussion is really funny and I'm surprised you guys are going at it since 2019, lol.
> 
> I wish mr Wood would finally respond to my earlier post with some raw data backing his understanding of TV industry up.


I didn’t read that post. Why is what I say true? Major networks almost pulling out of Nielsen, Nielsen themselves focusing on other things, people in the industry speaking to it on here, wrestling’s history of receiving low TV rates, and common sense.

Do you really think advertisers just look at the key demo?


----------



## CM Buck

Just go at Wood directly Garty that's all I ask. Cause lord knows this feuds not ending until aew either becomes a mega success or it dies


----------



## 3venflow

Around 1,000 tickets sold for Dynamite last night, way down from 1,600 from Blood & Guts. Not too surprising despite the strong card, they have been running Daily's Place with fans for around nine months now and Double or Nothing is coming up with 100% capacity, so I'd imagine many will save their money for that.


----------



## Aedubya

Nine months!?
You sure?


----------



## 3venflow

August 27th is when they started letting limited numbers of fans in, so yeah, near enough.


----------



## Aedubya

Insane


----------



## TD Stinger

I imagine they'll sell out DON rather easily with people traveling for the show and it being kind of billed as the 1st big show in front of a full house.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

.....the calm before the storm....


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Hopefully they hit a Mill but we will see...


----------



## RainmakerV2

Considering Blood and Guts ended with over 1.2 million and how they stacked this card up, they need to stay over a mil at least.


----------



## qntntgood

CMPunkRock316 said:


> Hopefully they hit a Mill but we will see...


It will probably,be over a million doing everything Vince Russo did 20 years ago.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Omg 415 and no numbers, im melting down here


----------



## Klitschko

Just in

2.000 million







Nah, just messing.


----------



## qntntgood

Klitschko said:


> Just in
> 
> 2.000 million
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, just messing.


It could happen,stranger things have.but it would all be thanks to Vince Russo.


----------



## 3venflow

They are very late today for some reason.

Found this, the three and seven day rating from two weeks ago. Still waiting for the Blood & Guts ones.


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## 3venflow

936k according to PW Torch.

Showbuzz are having technical problems so no deets yet.


----------



## iarwain

3venflow said:


> 936k according to PW Torch.


If it's 936k, that's horrible.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

iarwain said:


> If it's 936k, that's horrible.


lol


----------



## Dark Emperor

3venflow said:


> 936k according to PW Torch.
> 
> Showbuzz are having technical problems so no deets yet.


I think high 800 to low 900s will be their base now. Until it gradually reduces over the course of the year.

One question, if they lost approx 200k purely due to Cinco De Mayo last week as claimed, shouldnt they have maintained last weeks rating?


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> They are very late today for some reason.
> 
> Found this, the three and seven day rating from two weeks ago. Still waiting for the Blood & Guts ones.
> 
> View attachment 101142


Read it takes 12 days for 7+ ratings


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## A PG Attitude

I can't believe 1.8 million will watch Raw every week but not Dynamite.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Whoanma said:


>


----------



## Dark Emperor

A PG Attitude said:


> I can't believe 1.8 million will watch Raw every week but not Dynamite.


Lashley is on Raw !


----------



## TD Stinger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1392940786594066438


----------



## Dark Emperor

Whoanma said:


>


----------



## RainmakerV2

Like i said, about 200k casuals tuned in last week because they heard "Wargames".


----------



## Chrome

936K isn't god awful but disappointing they fell under a million with no political stuff on.


----------



## RapShepard

A PG Attitude said:


> I can't believe 1.8 million will watch Raw every week but not Dynamite.


Brand loyalty and being something people like


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

I bet fans tuned out either during or after Cody’s promo lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dizzie

Wrestling in general is dragging, you also had nxt doing its worst numbers since going unopposed.

Aew will probably be back to square one within a month or so of doing 750-800k.


----------



## A PG Attitude

RapShepard said:


> Brand loyalty and being something people like


Its absolutely terrible though. I can't physically watch it anymore and I watched Raw for 26 years.


----------



## Outlaw91

I honestly enjoyed this week's show more than the one from last week.


----------



## 3venflow

Overall rating is alright imo, but that demo is a bit disappointing. I'd be surprised if they were #1 again with a .31.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1392945502451388422


----------



## Alright_Mate

Unsurprising after last week’s amateur ending, casuals ain’t going to tune back in after seeing that.

I can see AEW yo-yoing between 900k-1 million, they just don’t produce consistent quality to hit 1 million regulary.


----------



## Geert Wilders

This seems to be the norm.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Overall rating is alright imo, but that demo is a bit disappointing. I'd be surprised if they were #1 again with a .31.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1392945502451388422


yep - demo should be higher

was a good show though

not sure if changing anything on it would’ve brought more viewers

edit) maybe mainstream stuff like (ugh...) celebs - but selfishly i don’t want that


----------



## RapShepard

A PG Attitude said:


> Its absolutely terrible though. I can't physically watch it anymore and I watched Raw for 26 years.


Terrible is in the eye of the beholder you know. AEW is fine though, they're a top 10 shows most week. All they need is that one killer storyline that gets that other million wrestling fans that just watch WWE to give them a chance.


----------



## holy

What if Vince McMahon decided to make Raw terrible on purpose just to show people that even with the worst show on television, he can get higher viewership than Dynamite? 🤔


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Terrible is in the eye of the beholder you know. AEW is fine though, they're a top 19 shows most week. All they need is that one killer storyline that gets that other million wrestling fans that just watch WWE to give them a chance.


yeah - the need one epic storyline like DB’s ‘yes’ movement to really go any higher


----------



## Outlaw91

Alright_Mate said:


> I can see AEW yo-yoing between 900k-1 million, they just don’t produce consistent quality to hit 1 million regulary.


It would be good if they could manage to keep it there, at least for some time. The special events should reach 1M, though.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Chrome said:


> 936K isn't god awful but disappointing they fell under a million with no political stuff on.


There is always something if you really want an excuse. The Israel - Palestine war was big news yesterday. Plus it was also Eid (Muslims Christmas), most muslims aint gonna watch AEW on Eid as its a time for family.

Obviously these aint legit reasons, but just saying lol.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yeah - the need one epic storyline like DB’s ‘yes’ movement to really go any higher


Yup at least from my history of wrestling it seems to be one major storyline that draws people to a company, then a bunch of complimentary stories or things that keep people. 

nWo and the Cruiserweights

Austin vs McMahon and the risque product

Just need their versions of that or that on a smaller scale.


----------



## Mister Sinister

1. This is the vote of no confidence in garbage wrestling and tearing apart the ring.
2. They opened with an older Japanese wrestler that the audience has no connection to.
3. Women were an afterthought on the card.


----------



## .christopher.

holy said:


> What if Vince McMahon decided to make Raw terrible on purpose just to show people that even with the worst show on television, he can get higher viewership than Dynamite? 🤔


RAW has been terrible for 17 years, to be fair.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Yup at least from my history of wrestling it seems to be one major storyline that draws people to a company, then a bunch of complimentary stories or things that keep people.
> 
> nWo and the Cruiserweights
> 
> Austin vs McMahon and the risque product


very true

what would be the most likely in current scenario?

IMO - DB signing will bring some of that
NJPW invasion will

Darby has potential to be ‘that guy’


----------



## Chan Hung

The rating is actually a bit higher than i thought they would earn. They will be staying probably normally around 830-920 each week with regular programming.


----------



## 3venflow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> what would be the most likely in current scenario


CM Punk, Samoa Joe and Daniel Bryan invasion angle perhaps.


----------



## RainmakerV2

RapShepard said:


> Terrible is in the eye of the beholder you know. AEW is fine though, they're a top 10 shows most week. All they need is that one killer storyline that gets that other million wrestling fans that just watch WWE to give them a chance.



They dont have the patience or restraint for that. SD did its highest rating in a while last week and it was like 5 segments of the Roman Usos story. They started the story in the first hour with Jimmy returning, and progressed through it through the 2 hours. Matches were kept short and the focus was on the story. Magically, people stayed around to see it climax.

AEW is way too segmented, everyone has to get their shit in, every match has to go 10 plus, everyone has to be on every show to justify such a bloated roster.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*And there you have it, under a million with no other major television broadcast. Show was good overall and it didn't matter. They immediately lost the NXT viewers with the first two weeks of bullshit.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> CM Punk, Samoa Joe and Daniel Bryan invasion angle perhaps.


like a group of new radicalz

don’t feel like TK is spending that Punk money though


----------



## holy

.christopher. said:


> RAW has been terrible for 17 years, to be fair.


I started watching it in 2003, so I actually used to love it at the time haha. But yeah, they've had so many terrible periods over the years, but none quite as bad as now!


----------



## Chan Hung

3venflow said:


> CM Punk, Samoa Joe and Daniel Bryan invasion angle perhaps.


Them three to tear up the company would be interesting lol


----------



## The Wood

Not a surprising drop.


----------



## RapShepard

RainmakerV2 said:


> They dont have the patience or restraint for that. SD did its highest rating in a while last week and it was like 5 segments of the Roman Usos story. They started the story in the first hour with Jimmy returning, and progressed through it through the 2 hours. Matches were kept short and the focus was on the story. Magically, people stayed around to see it climax.
> 
> AEW is way too segmented, everyone has to get their shit in, every match has to go 10 plus, everyone has to be on every show to justify such a bloated roster.


I definitely prefer the segmenting on SmackDown. I know folk don't like the whole show revolving around one person. But it's really needed in a show like wrestling with a lot of characters. You need to have a common thread throughout the show so it doesn't feel as disjointed as you jump around between stories.


It's admirable they want to get as many people on and not have people feel way above others. But you kinda have to do that.


----------



## GoldenEraWWFWCW

The Wood said:


> Not a surprising drop.


I agree I find the product to not be very good either it’s hit and miss.


----------



## rich110991

Deserved more


----------



## La Parka

The world champion is in a parody of a group that was big in Japan 5 years ago. He is now going to face a comedy wrestler AND a wrestler who is rarely seen. Its obvious that Omega is going to win but they've could of at least had him face someone that had a single prayer of winning.

Their biggest name in Jericho has consistently embarrassed himself on television with the most recent example being diving into a mattress in the main event.

Their second biggest name is the worst manager ever. Miro is beating the shit out of Darby before the bell is even rung and Sting just stands there. For weeks Sting has mean mugged the faces during Darby's matches to make sure things go down like they should. But somehow Miro before the match is even started completely beats the shit out of Darby while Sting stands there like a coward and watches the guy who he vowed to look out for get his ass kicked. Miro and Darby easily could've gotten a million but people just don't care about Miro anymore. A year of being a comedy joke cannot be erased by a main event championship match. Miro last night is how he should've debuted. The match was good but again was ruined by the silliness of the afterbirth. Sky,Page and the Dork Order? Just completely unnecessary. Let Miro have his moment! He's finally overcome the goofiness of the video game nonsense and is forced to share his spotlight with guys that nobody will ever care about.

Speaking of ruined moments. SCU Vs The Young Bucks was a typical young bucks match but did tell a story and had some entertaining moments. The story was told that SCU is done after losing to the prick heel team. Instead of soaking in that moment of loss for SCU, we immediately cut to Mox and Eddie fucking around in the bucks lockerroom which apparently only had a helmet. Instead of showing Eddie's great promo that was shown on Dark, they show this nonsense...

The Dork Order is AWFUL. These goofs are all over the show and nobody appears to know why. Everything they are involved in is dragged down.

Mox and Nagata was a good match and one of Mox's better matches in AEW. Despite not many people knowing who Nagata is, I'd much prefer this type of undercard match to the 6 man tags of flips and nonsense. Though I'm not sure either will draw all that well.

The Cody Rhodes promo was embarrassing jingoistic nonsense that would've been considered unrealistic in "Team America" 

and finally the love for the attitude era. AEW does wayyyyy too much attitude era shit. Who does this type of thing appeal to? The Attitude Era fans who have lived through it have already experienced it.... those who are too young or just weren't watching wrestling then can look this shit up online and seen it done better by better talent. 


AEW has some good but they desperately need better management of their program. You can see talent in a lot of guys on the card but the booking is like watching a bad playthrough of WWE Universe mode.


----------



## yeahright2

Okay.. We have a result in the ratings game
AEW Ratings prediction game

I win! That´s the second time, so I guess I´m pretty damned good! LOL
936K isn´t a catastrophic rating, but i´m guessing that´s the new norm for a "standard" Dynamite episode. 
The show failed imo to give proper time after a match, and Cody needs to get lost with the patriotic bs. He practically admitted where he cast his vote in the Presidential Election.
But it had some good moments. Darby bouncing off Miro will be remembered for a long time.


----------



## RomeoBlues

The product is just for a million smart marks, nothing shows that more than what we got from this weeks Dynamite

1. Your top star in Moxley Vs A 53 year old Japanese wrestler who has been relegated to the veteran/legend six man tags in Japan for a championship that nobody knows anything about unless they follow wrestling from Japan (Aka smart marks)

2. Cody continuing to be a mark for himself by adopting his fathers nickname for a match with Anthony Ogogo (I'm British and nobody here really cares about Ogogo)

3. Young Bucks doing their nWo knockoff reunion and going close to 15 minutes with SCU in a flip fest. Again, only PWG type smarks are going to get into this and love it. To a casual they are tuning out.

4. Orange Cassidy gets himself into a World Title match. Again, Cassidy only appeals to smart marks and people who want to laugh at wrestling.

5. You've got The Inner Circle ripping off the Austin beer hose segment from the late 90's and Jericho returning a week after he almost died (Kayfabe wise) by being launched off a cage. Anyone who bought that segment from last week knew it was totally bullshit when Jericho emerged.

6. Miro won the TNT Title which is a good move for casuals but anyone who was interested in Miro is long gone after that god awful feud with the Best Friends.

---

And then people genuinely wonder why they've dropped from 1.2 million back to 900k in the span of 3-4 weeks...


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Britt Baker vs Shida is the only strong selling point of the pay-per-view, and that has nothing to do with the build, because it's been awful and hard carried by Britt promos, but the fact that people want the belt off Shida and on Britt.*


----------



## Seafort

3venflow said:


> August 27th is when they started letting limited numbers of fans in, so yeah, near enough.


Earlier than that. They're coming to Austin in July.


----------



## 3venflow

Seafort said:


> Earlier than that. They're coming to Austin in July.


I meant that's when they let them in last year. So they've been allowing fans in for nearly nine months now. I think DON will be the only show that does a particularly big number at Daily's Place for a while. You can only ask local fans for so many dollars.


----------



## rich110991

Lots of haters in this thread trying to trash what was a great wrestling show


----------



## Klitschko

Good episode and decent rating, but I would be lying if I didn't say that I'm a bit disappointed. With no competition they should be hitting 1 million every week in my opinion.


----------



## .christopher.

holy said:


> I started watching it in 2003, so I actually used to love it at the time haha. But yeah, they've had so many terrible periods over the years, but none quite as bad as now!


I actually liked 2003, mate. 2004 is when things started going downhill even though I enjoyed that year, too. It just set things in motion for a really big drop in 2005 that they never recovered from.


RapShepard said:


> I definitely prefer the segmenting on SmackDown. I know folk don't like the whole show revolving around one person. But it's really needed in a show like wrestling with a lot of characters. You need to have a common thread throughout the show so it doesn't feel as disjointed as you jump around between stories.
> 
> 
> It's admirable they want to get as many people on and not have people feel way above others. But you kinda have to do that.


Not so much one person but one storyline. Having multiple segments spread out from in ring to different areas backstage to further one specific story really helps a wrestling show, imo. They did it all the time in the AE and it was fantastic.


----------



## Extremelyunderrated

936k? Oof


----------



## DaSlacker

The problem with Dynamite is it feels like a scripted pro wrestling show. Unfortunately the public has had that for nigh on 25 years. Hell, there are 4 other obviously scripted pro wrestling shows on during the week. 

I'm not saying that's why they are doing less than a million viewers again. Or why they are 900,000 viewers below Raw. But it needs to be addressed. The people watching live TV are in their 30s, at least. Ultra choreographed wrestling? Comedy characters? Faction Wars? Guys returning very quickly after a career threatening bump? Matches magically ending at 10pm on the dot. They've seen all this shit before.


----------



## TD Stinger

936k and down to .31 in the Demo.

You know what that means folks...






THE END IS HERE! (I kid)


----------



## DaSlacker

.christopher. said:


> I actually liked 2003, mate. 2004 is when things started going downhill even though I enjoyed that year, too. It just set things in motion for a really big drop in 2005 that they never recovered from.


I quite liked 2005 lol. Felt Raw had a decent comeback compared to 2003, with the lazily written Kane vs Shane feud and HHH hogging the show. Or 2004 with the the Eugene stuff and more wrestlecrap involving Kane and Lita. To me, 2006 was when they started on a really long downward spiral of bad comedy and poor writing. Made a lot worse as they went all in on the PG stuff in 2009.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

bdon said:


> What’s everyone’s excuses for the low ratings? Still have not touched the premiere episode despite being unopposed.
> 
> AEW is a niche show for a niche audience drawing niche ratings. That’s fine and all. I watched every episode of Supernatural 5 times at least, which is pretty fucking niche, but are people still arguing like TK is going to book a show that can genuinely ever compete with WWE for TV rights fees?


Look at the "competition" NXT hasn't even come close to 1 million unopposed......nxt fans certainly turn in to AEW but it doesn't go both ways......AEW fans dont watch nxt.


----------



## NathanMayberry

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Look at the "competition" NXT hasn't even come close to 1 million unopposed......nxt fans certainly turn in to AEW but it doesn't go both ways......AEW fans dont watch nxt.


Congratulations... that still doesn’t answer what happened to AEW’s viewers... 

I know talking about nxt brings you comfort but stick to the topic at hand 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Klitschko said:


> Good episode and decent rating, but I would be lying if I didn't say that I'm a bit disappointed. With no competition they should be hitting 1 million every week in my opinion.


*Agreed. 1 million should be the standard with no competition.*



$Dolladrew$ said:


> Look at the "competition" NXT hasn't even come close to 1 million unopposed......nxt fans certainly turn in to AEW but it doesn't go both ways......AEW fans dont watch nxt.


*Literally no one here said NXT is better. They went in the 500s shortly before WrestleMania because the show is so boring. That has nothing to do with AEW losing about 300 k viewers since their uncontested debut. Stop deflecting.*


----------



## NathanMayberry

The Wood said:


> Not a surprising drop.


Right... you’d think those watching every second of dynamite on Wednesday nights would be able to see this coming... but it looks like they’re still in denial.

They actually think people who aren’t AEW fans and tiny khan apologists are clamouring to watch his spastic product every Wednesday night. 

That’s why they keep defending it. Even the really stupid shit.. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## $Dolladrew$

NathanMayberry said:


> Congratulations... that still doesn’t answer what happened to AEW’s viewers...
> 
> I know talking about nxt brings you comfort but stick to the topic at hand
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The viewers come and go much like every other wrestling show lol. They will go over and under 1 million depending on the show like we've seen......is it that hard to comprehend?

The wood said NXT would be at 900k in no time..........


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Whoanma said:


>


Pete and pete nice!!!!

Wheres arney the superhero guy?


----------



## $Dolladrew$

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Agreed. 1 million should be the standard with no competition.
> 
> 
> Literally no one here said NXT is better. They went in the 500s shortly before WrestleMania because the show is so boring. That has nothing to do with AEW losing about 300 k viewers since their uncontested debut. Stop deflecting.*


Ask the wood about that one LMFAO.


----------



## iarwain

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *1 million should be the standard with no competition.*


Agreed. I'm not saying the company is in danger of folding, or being cancelled, or anything like that. 
But drawing anything under a million at this point is disappointing, not where they want to be.


----------



## DaSlacker

NXT is dull but AEW should be knocking on Raw's door. Not just pleased with pulling ahead of Triple H's "development" brand. 

NXT has Cole, Kross, Kushida, Knight and guys from Evolve. AEW has: Jericho, Christian, Taz, Moxley, PAC, Roberts, Tully, Hager, Sting, Wight, JR, Sciavone, Hardy, Rhodes Bros...


----------



## NathanMayberry

$Dolladrew$ said:


> The viewers come and go much like every other wrestling show lol. They will go over and under 1 million depending on the show like we've seen......is it that hard to comprehend?
> 
> The wood said NXT would be at 900k in no time..........


They will get over a million until they don't. 

Blood & Guts was a PPV match that was given away on free TV and it barely crossed a million.


----------



## Joe Gill

If AEW would just slow things down and focus the show around their top stars and young guys with potential their rating would be much higher. They need to stop with the over produced skits... AEW is trash at creating moments. They vision something in their minds...but the end result is always cringey. Just stick to interviews and shoot promos. When they try comedy its always horrible. MJF, Darby, Jungle boy, Moxley, Kingston, Bucks, Omega, Jericho, Britt and a few others.... every episode should be centered around them. Everyone else needs to know their role and shut the hell up like the rock used to say. Instead TK does the opposite... he tries to get the entire roster over... its just leads to a desensitized audience. Vince knew how to create stars because he centered the entire show around them... often giving them multiple segments on a single episode of RAW. Bret Hart in 97 would often get 15+ minutes a show. Same with Austin in 98/99 or Rock in 99/2000.
An episode of Nitro would revolve around the nWo.


----------



## Wolf Mark

I'm actually pretty surprised by the drop. I'm not surprised by "A" drop but not this much. I always expect them to always go lower cause they have not produced something special in a while other than B & G. NXT leaving saved them cause Dynamite had gone to 685. But getting 936 this quickly is worrisome. We have seen WWE Raw dropping in ratings but it took years. If they hit the 800s next week, sound the alarm.

There is so much screw ups you can do before the fans get tired. I believe their fall from grace happened cause of the screw up of the failling of the ring blowing up. And then there's the Jericho falling screw up last week. And boom we get 936.



DaSlacker said:


> The problem with Dynamite is it feels like a scripted pro wrestling show. Unfortunately the public has had that for nigh on 25 years. Hell, there are 4 other obviously scripted pro wrestling shows on during the week.
> 
> I'm not saying that's why they are doing less than a million viewers again. Or why they are 900,000 viewers below Raw. But it needs to be addressed. The people watching live TV are in their 30s, at least. Ultra choreographed wrestling? Comedy characters? Faction Wars? Guys returning very quickly after a career threatening bump? Matches magically ending at 10pm on the dot. They've seen all this shit before.


Agreed. Dynamite rarely feels "real". The last time someone did an engaging promo that made me feel something was Jake Roberts when he appeared to confront Cody.


----------



## Mr316

AEW is at 900k because they created a show for nothing more than that. It’s literally a lame version of the Attitude Era but with more wrestling. There’s nothing groundbreaking about the show. Nothing fresh. Nothing new.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

Dark Emperor said:


> There is always something if you really want an excuse. The Israel - Palestine war was big news yesterday. Plus it was also Eid (Muslims Christmas), most muslims aint gonna watch AEW on Eid as its a time for family.
> 
> Obviously these aint legit reasons, but just saying lol.


Not going to use those things as an excuse or reason for this number, but just from me at least, I usually watch BTE and Sammy's Vlog before Dynamite and actually got caught up enough about the Israel/Palestine news that I ran 20 minutes into Dynamite (to skip commercials) with just that and haven't watched either Sammy or BTE yet. 

That's just me though, I used to be a big political junkie.


----------



## Klitschko

Mr316 said:


> AEW is at 900k because they created a show for nothing more than that. It’s literally a lame version of the Attitude Era but with more wrestling. There’s nothing groundbreaking about the show. Nothing fresh. Nothing new.


That's just not true. They have done a ton of new and fresh stuff. It's just that their execution is fucking horrible for most of it unfortunately.

- they are doing this whole storyline with Omega and showcasing other promotions a lot of people had not seen like NWA, Impact, NJPW. That's new and unique. Even though the storyline itself is shit. 

- stadium stampede was something new and unique, even if it's one of those either love it or hate it kind of matches. 

- rankings. Sure they suck and don't make sense, but it is something new and unique they tried to do 

- barbed wire exploding death match. Again, sure it was hilarious how it ended, but they tried something new and unique. 

- war games on free television. Good match. Bad ending. It was unique in the sense that they took a big chance putting this on free television. 

- the mimosa mayhem or whatever it was called was something new and unique, even though it sucked. 

- the tournament for the women's championship where half of it was in the states and the other half in Japan was new and unique. 

- their first steel cage match was a new and unique version of it. The thing was fucking massive and looked pretty cool. 

- the cinematic match with Darby and Sting vs Team Tazz was pretty unique. We have seen a ton of these but the production of it and the setting made it unique. 

- AEW Dark is a unique show since the beginning that they use to give exposure to their new people and to pad records of wrestlers. That was pretty interesting.

There is more, but you have your mind set that they can't do no right so I'm sure you will not agree with a single thing I mentioned.


----------



## Mr316

Klitschko said:


> That's just not true. They have done a ton of new and fresh stuff. It's just that their execution is fucking horrible for most of it unfortunately.
> 
> - they are doing this whole storyline with Omega and showcasing other promotions a lot of people had not seen like NWA, Impact, NJPW. That's new and unique. Even though the storyline itself is shit.
> 
> - stadium stampede was something new and unique, even if it's one of those either love it or hate it kind of matches.
> 
> - rankings. Sure they suck and don't make sense, but it is something new and unique they tried to do
> 
> - barbed wire exploding death match. Again, sure it was hilarious how it ended, but they tried something new and unique.
> 
> - war games on free television. Good match. Bad ending. It was unique in the sense that they took a big chance putting this on free television.
> 
> - the mimosa mayhem or whatever it was called was something new and unique, even though it sucked.
> 
> - the tournament for the women's championship where half of it was in the states and the other half in Japan was new and unique.
> 
> - their first steel cage match was a new and unique version of it. The thing was fucking massive and looked pretty cool.
> 
> - the cinematic match with Darby and Sting vs Team Tazz was pretty unique. We have seen a ton of these but the production of it and the setting made it unique.
> 
> - AEW Dark is a unique show since the beginning that they use to give exposure to their new people and to pad records of wrestlers. That was pretty interesting.
> 
> There is more, but you have your mind set that they can't do no right so I'm sure you will not agree with a single thing I mentioned.


We don’t have the same definition of “unique”. Something slightly different from something we’ve seen before doesn’t make it unique. What I mean by “unique” is take the concept of pro wrestling and give it a brand new feel and look in order to grab new fans, something AEW failed to do.


----------



## Klitschko

Mr316 said:


> We don’t have the same definition of “unique”. Something slightly different from something we’ve seen before doesn’t make it unique. What I mean by “unique” is take the concept of pro wrestling and give it a brand new feel and look in order to grab new fans, something AEW failed to do.


Oh I get ya. Well if you look at it that way than the only unique promotion is Lucha Underground. Everything else is the same old shit in my opinion.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Klitschko said:


> That's just not true. They have done a ton of new and fresh stuff. It's just that their execution is fucking horrible for most of it unfortunately.
> 
> - they are doing this whole storyline with Omega and showcasing other promotions a lot of people had not seen like NWA, Impact, NJPW. That's new and unique. Even though the storyline itself is shit.
> 
> - stadium stampede was something new and unique, even if it's one of those either love it or hate it kind of matches.
> 
> - rankings. Sure they suck and don't make sense, but it is something new and unique they tried to do
> 
> - barbed wire exploding death match. Again, sure it was hilarious how it ended, but they tried something new and unique.
> 
> - war games on free television. Good match. Bad ending. It was unique in the sense that they took a big chance putting this on free television.
> 
> - the mimosa mayhem or whatever it was called was something new and unique, even though it sucked.
> 
> - the tournament for the women's championship where half of it was in the states and the other half in Japan was new and unique.
> 
> - their first steel cage match was a new and unique version of it. The thing was fucking massive and looked pretty cool.
> 
> - the cinematic match with Darby and Sting vs Team Tazz was pretty unique. We have seen a ton of these but the production of it and the setting made it unique.
> 
> - AEW Dark is a unique show since the beginning that they use to give exposure to their new people and to pad records of wrestlers. That was pretty interesting.
> 
> There is more, but you have your mind set that they can't do no right so I'm sure you will not agree with a single thing I mentioned.


If you would go point by point, you would see that none of this is unique. I don't even have to say why, cause you yourself know it. I mean putting War Games on free TV, it's the first time it's been done. But nothing to write home about. Unique and fresh is about changing the game. Stadium match and Sting/Darby vs Team Taz is Total Deletion rip offs, something created by TNA. Big cages and exploding rings have been done before.


----------



## Klitschko

Wolf Mark said:


> If you would go point by point, you would see that none of this is unique. I don't even have to say why, cause you yourself know it. I mean putting War Games on free TV, it's the first time it's been done. But nothing write home about. Unique and fresh is about changing the game. Stadium match and Sting/Darby vs Team Taz is Total Deletion rip offs, something created by TNA. Big cages and exploding rings have been done before.


I get ya, but there isn't much else they can do thats as unique as you guys want it to be in my opinion. Everything has been done to death in pro wrestling. What else can any company really do?


----------



## yeahright2

Klitschko said:


> That's just not true. They have done a ton of new and fresh stuff. It's just that their execution is fucking horrible for most of it unfortunately.
> 
> - they are doing this whole storyline with Omega and showcasing other promotions a lot of people had not seen like NWA, Impact, NJPW. That's new and unique. Even though the storyline itself is shit.
> 
> - stadium stampede was something new and unique, even if it's one of those either love it or hate it kind of matches.
> 
> - rankings. Sure they suck and don't make sense, but it is something new and unique they tried to do
> 
> - barbed wire exploding death match. Again, sure it was hilarious how it ended, but they tried something new and unique.
> 
> - war games on free television. Good match. Bad ending. It was unique in the sense that they took a big chance putting this on free television.
> 
> - the mimosa mayhem or whatever it was called was something new and unique, even though it sucked.
> 
> - the tournament for the women's championship where half of it was in the states and the other half in Japan was new and unique.
> 
> - their first steel cage match was a new and unique version of it. The thing was fucking massive and looked pretty cool.
> 
> - the cinematic match with Darby and Sting vs Team Tazz was pretty unique. We have seen a ton of these but the production of it and the setting made it unique.
> 
> - AEW Dark is a unique show since the beginning that they use to give exposure to their new people and to pad records of wrestlers. That was pretty interesting.
> 
> There is more, but you have your mind set that they can't do no right so I'm sure you will not agree with a single thing I mentioned.


none of that is really new and unique.
Belt collector has been done in Japan, by Austin Aries, and by Matt & Jeff Hardy.
Stadium Stampede is basically just a falls count anywhere, only on a bigger scale
Everybody has tried (and failed) with some sort of ranking system.
The Deathmatch on US soil is new, but people who like that kind of match has already seen them
NXT has done wargames. If you have the network you don´t pay for PPV´s or Takeovers, so it´s basically free.
Mimosa Mayhem was just a variation of a slop/mud/whatever match.
etc.. etc..
It´s impossible to do something in wrestling that hasn´t been done before, and it´s fine -everyone steals from everyone in that business.
But you can´t sell it as new and unique -AEW can try to do that, it´s their job to hype their shows and PPVs, but we all know it isn´t new 

And as you said, their production and execution is really bad. The honeymoon is over, they need to hire some professionals ASAP.


----------



## CovidFan

Klitschko said:


> I get ya, but there isn't much else they can do thats as unique as you guys want it to be in my opinion. Everything has been done to death in pro wrestling. What else can any company really do?


There really is no argument against this. The most wrestling can do at this point is improve upon what has already been done.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

So it went down? Eh. Even with that still a good number and they'll get back to a million +. Another good week for AEW.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

CovidFan said:


> There really is no argument against this. The most wrestling can do at this point is improve upon what has already been done.


And honestly when it comes down to it they wanna see the same shit that's been done already anyways.


----------



## bdon

Let’s pay QT Marshall to format our fucking show and wonder why it’s failing to reach a million viewers.

Goddamn I hate these people. So much potential being wasted.


----------



## The Wood

RomeoBlues said:


> The product is just for a million smart marks, nothing shows that more than what we got from this weeks Dynamite
> 
> 1. Your top star in Moxley Vs A 53 year old Japanese wrestler who has been relegated to the veteran/legend six man tags in Japan for a championship that nobody knows anything about unless they follow wrestling from Japan (Aka smart marks)
> 
> 2. Cody continuing to be a mark for himself by adopting his fathers nickname for a match with Anthony Ogogo (I'm British and nobody here really cares about Ogogo)
> 
> 3. Young Bucks doing their nWo knockoff reunion and going close to 15 minutes with SCU in a flip fest. Again, only PWG type smarks are going to get into this and love it. To a casual they are tuning out.
> 
> 4. Orange Cassidy gets himself into a World Title match. Again, Cassidy only appeals to smart marks and people who want to laugh at wrestling.
> 
> 5. You've got The Inner Circle ripping off the Austin beer hose segment from the late 90's and Jericho returning a week after he almost died (Kayfabe wise) by being launched off a cage. Anyone who bought that segment from last week knew it was totally bullshit when Jericho emerged.
> 
> 6. Miro won the TNT Title which is a good move for casuals but anyone who was interested in Miro is long gone after that god awful feud with the Best Friends.
> 
> ---
> 
> And then people genuinely wonder why they've dropped from 1.2 million back to 900k in the span of 3-4 weeks...


Damn. Great post. 



$Dolladrew$ said:


> The viewers come and go much like every other wrestling show lol. They will go over and under 1 million depending on the show like we've seen......is it that hard to comprehend?
> 
> The wood said NXT would be at 900k in no time..........


I can’t remember if I said NXT would be at 900k or if this is another apologist lie. I know I said I thought they’d be doing better, and that there is potentially a larger audience that would switch to them unopposed than would find AEW. I don’t know if I said 900k. But anyway, I’ll take it. NXT has been a frequent disappointment too and I was wrong about them. Boo-hoo. Still doesn’t have anything to do with AEW’s failures though.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

DaSlacker said:


> The problem with Dynamite is it feels like a scripted pro wrestling show. Unfortunately the public has had that for nigh on 25 years. Hell, there are 4 other obviously scripted pro wrestling shows on during the week.
> 
> I'm not saying that's why they are doing less than a million viewers again. Or why they are 900,000 viewers below





The Wood said:


> Damn. Great post.
> 
> 
> 
> I can’t remember if I said NXT would be at 900k or if this is another apologist lie. I know I said I thought they’d be doing better, and that there is potentially a larger audience that would switch to them unopposed than would find AEW. I don’t know if I said 900k. But anyway, I’ll take it. NXT has been a frequent disappointment too and I was wrong about them. Boo-hoo. Still doesn’t have anything to do with AEW’s failures though.


Yes chalk it up with one of your many incorrect assumptions lol. Being #1 in cable for the first time sure smells like failure lol.

Reality is AEW regularly breaks over a million views counting live and same day viewership.As its been said here multiple times this thread is a waste of time......TNT is really happy and AEW is only going to get better with full crowds and touring resuming soon.

This thread is just fun to watch and occasionally poke at.


----------



## Prosper

Lol you people are comical. Not a bad rating at all. Anything between 900K-1.2 mil is fine. Everyone can’t watch live every week, I just got finished watching last nights show.

AEW is not losing their audience regardless of what anyone says in this thread. People said up and down that they lost their debut show audience but those people are obviously still watching. Last nights show was awesome and nothing AEW is doing right now is "driving the audience away".


----------



## thorn123

My opinion, is noone's opinion counts. 
My second opinion (even though it doesnt count) is there is nothing AEW could do better short of cloning hogan and austin is some laboratory. The best booked show with the best performances would still be picked apart and stay at its current viewership.


----------



## bdon

DaveRA said:


> My opinion, is noone's opinion counts.
> My second opinion (even though it doesnt count) is there is nothing AEW could do better short of cloning hogan and austin is some laboratory. The best booked show with the best performances would still be picked apart and stay at its current viewership.


Hiring someone other than goddamn QT Marshall to format your show would at least be an attempt to better the show, don’t you think? Or do you genuinely believe he should be the one formatting the goddamn show!?!?


----------



## holy

.christopher. said:


> I actually liked 2003, mate. 2004 is when things started going downhill even though I enjoyed that year, too. It just set things in motion for a really big drop in 2005 that they never recovered from.
> 
> Not so much one person but one storyline. Having multiple segments spread out from in ring to different areas backstage to further one specific story really helps a wrestling show, imo. They did it all the time in the AE and it was fantastic.


2005 is indeed when the first big drop happened for Raw! 

I remember, even though I was only 10 years old at the time, I was frustrated that despite Cena and Angle both being drafted to Raw, they were feuding with eachother AGAIN, rather than feuding with fresh opponents. That was the first time I recall taking a small break from Raw.


----------



## thorn123

bdon said:


> Hiring someone other than goddamn QT Marshall to format your show would at least be an attempt to better the show, don’t you think? Or do you genuinely believe he should be the one formatting the goddamn show!?!?


I wouldnt have a clue on his credentials to be honest. Don't get me wrong, I think the show could improve a significant amount with some changes. I just don't think it will change viewership even if it improves.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Klitschko said:


> I get ya, but there isn't much else they can do thats as unique as you guys want it to be in my opinion. Everything has been done to death in pro wrestling. What else can any company really do?


They could start by doing things completely different from what how wrestling is presented. I remember watching the first official nWo PPV in 1997. The booking was bad but they did things differently like the set was different, there was no in-ring presentator, etc...

In my opinion one of the things that will change how wrestling is conceived will be to ask youself as a booker how to make the experience more visceral, how to connect with the audience more. That means to basically re-think everything for how the guys wrestle, how the promos are done, how better to present the segments. Sometime you can even borrow things from other mediums and things from the past. That is why I loved NWA Powerrr so much because Billy Corgan for his love of old school went back to the past to book wrestling shows inside a small studio and by doing that infused his wrestling with a jolt of creativity that even he didn't expect would happen. It opens the possibilities to do many things. And when I watched, it felt like such a fresh product. I was talking about how to make it more visceral well them being in such a close to proximity to the fans did that. 

AEW have a great roster of many wrestlers. But do they have to use them all? Sometime less is more. I noticed that in TNA cause they have always have had a chaotic product. But then in 2012 not long after Bobby Roode turned heel and became Champion, it's like suddenly they decided to make the shows all about him instead of faction wars, suddenly instead of the magnifying glass being toward 30 individual, it was on one guy. And I don't know why but the product became better, fresher. It was more focused. It was one main storyline about what the new Champ would do next and who was going to dethrone him. And it was fascinating to see. It was not the most creative thing but sometime just going back to basics helps a lot.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Prosper said:


> Lol you people are comical. Not a bad rating at all. Anything between 900K-1.2 mil is fine. Everyone can’t watch live every week, I just got finished watching last nights show.
> 
> *AEW is not losing their audience regardless of what anyone says in this thread*. People said up and down that they lost their debut show audience but those people are obviously still watching. Last nights show was awesome and nothing AEW is doing right now is "driving the audience away".


Wanna bet? I say if they don't fix things, they'll go back to 685k under a month.


----------



## Hitman1987

I was told that Orange Cassidy is a draw, how can that be when 1.1m people were told last week that he would be in action this week, in probably the most important match of his career, and only 940k or so tuned in to watch him.

Draws grow, or at the very least maintain, viewership.


----------



## Prosper

Wolf Mark said:


> Wanna bet? I say if they don't fix things, they'll go back to 685k under a month.


Fix what? What was so abysmal on a grand scale last night that needed fixing?

Simple fact is that people watch when they can. And I don't mean that as an excuse but just reality. They won't drop to 685K. Live numbers don't reflect every watcher. I'm pretty sure you haven't seen every show live either have you? Do you contribute to live ratings or do you stream? DVR numbers themselves show that people still watch, just not live every single week, which is the only issue for advertisers. But in this case not really an issue seeing as anything over 800K is more than fine for the network. You guys are over-inflating your live viewer expectations and saying that great numbers like 900K are bad when they're in fact good.

I just don't understand how people here on one hand can realize that they personally can't ALWAYS be in front of their TV's on time every week, then on the other hand, see that others can't do the same, then go on to use that as reasoning for AEW "losing their audience". If you're a fan of a movie franchise and you don't see the third movie in a trilogy at a theater on opening night, and you watch it a week later, does that mean that the franchise lost you as a fan? Or does it mean that you simply got to it when you had the time to get to it?

I'm not denying the fact that live viewers mean a lot, I'm more so speaking to those who are spelling doom and gloom when ratings fluctuate. Like I said earlier, it's comical.


----------



## IronMan8

Best to look at the general trend over several months.

When they debuted, and when Smackdown debuted on Fox (as a like-for-like comparison), there was a one week spike followed by an almost immediate drop to their baseline.

Let’s say last week’s number was inflated due to blood and guts. I think around 900-950k could likely end up their new baseline, and I expect a number in this range will motivate them to do whatever it takes to get over a million, so I could see the quality of the show improving slightly in the coming months.

If they fail to stay above a million, morale will drop and it could plant the seeds of doubt within key people at the company.

If they succeed in getting and staying over a million this year, they’ll be thinking onwards and upwards, which could see them throwing crazy money at some of WWE’s biggest names or at the very least moving forward with confidence and everyone rowing in the same direction.

The ratings are important because if fans perceive AEW as never being capable of challenging WWE, they’ll lose more interest than some expect IMO. They were supposed to be an anti-WWE, younger, cooler new product.

Their success is predicated on a fan feeling of importance that doesn’t exist unless they’re growing into their promises in the long run.

Tony Kahn is younger and richer than Vince McMahon, so that alone puts him in a solid position to maintain fan perceptions of AEW’s growth potential as the years go by. 

Tony’s job gets disproportionately harder if AEW can’t get these numbers staying above a million this year. It might sound like an arbitrary number, but it’s not about the number, it‘s the vibe that will permeate stories about AEW in the wrestling media that will turn off the fans on the fringes who truly want a competitive alternative to WWE.


----------



## IronMan8

Hitman1987 said:


> I was told that Orange Cassidy is a draw, how can that be when 1.1m people were told last week that he would be in action this week, in probably the most important match of his career, and only 940k or so tuned in to watch him.
> 
> Draws grow, or at the very least maintain, viewership.


Sample size of 1


----------



## Hitman1987

IronMan8 said:


> Sample size of 1


Not really, there’s been a few instances of AEW using a special attraction (Sting/Shaq/Blood and Guts/1st week without NXT) where they’ve popped over a million in ratings and shortly after they return to below a million and Orange Cassidy has been there over the whole period.

I’m pretty sure, although not 100%, that when he was feuding with Jericho and when he had a few TNT title matches that he didn’t grow or maintain audience either.


----------



## GoldenEraWWFWCW

rich110991 said:


> Lots of haters in this thread trying to trash what was a great wrestling show


dunno how someone’s opinion that differs from yours make them a hater. AEW is not great or not bad in my opinion it’s average but it’s just my opinion.


----------



## sideon

Prosper said:


> Fix what? What was so abysmal on a grand scale last night that needed fixing?
> 
> *Simple fact is that people watch when they can. And I don't mean that as an excuse but just reality. They won't drop to 685K. Live numbers don't reflect every watcher. I'm pretty sure you haven't seen every show live either have you? Do you contribute to live ratings or do you stream? DVR numbers themselves show that people still watch, just not live every single week, which is the only issue for advertisers. But in this case not really an issue seeing as anything over 800K is more than fine for the network. You guys are over-inflating your live viewer expectations and saying that great numbers like 900K are bad when they're in fact good.*
> 
> I just don't understand how people here on one hand can realize that they personally can't ALWAYS be in front of their TV's on time every week, then on the other hand, see that others can't do the same, then go on to use that as reasoning for AEW "losing their audience". If you're a fan of a movie franchise and you don't see the third movie in a trilogy at a theater on opening night, and you watch it a week later, does that mean that the franchise lost you as a fan? Or does it mean that you simply got to it when you had the time to get to it?
> 
> I'm not denying the fact that live viewers mean a lot, I'm more so speaking to those who are spelling doom and gloom when ratings fluctuate. Like I said earlier, it's comical.


The problem with this argument is that it's only used to excuse AEW whenever they get a low rating. No one ever brings up DVR numbers if they get a 1.2 or a 1.4 rating, but the moment they get a six figure rating then that's when people want to add every single viewer from every single streaming platform. All these ratings factors were never spoken of until AEW came along, and yet no one ever uses it for Smackdown/RAW/NXT. Live numbers do matter and it's ridiculous how much Jericho has influenced people into believing that they don't.


The Raw Smackdown said:


> So it went down? Eh. Even with that still a good number and they'll get back to a million +. Another good week for AEW.


Ya'll are just incapable of holding AEW accountable. They're losing viewers week after week and the AEW fanbase has basically turned into the Leslie Nielsen "everything is fine" meme. It was not another good week and there is no longer the NXT excuse for the drop in ratings.


----------



## The Wood

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Yes chalk it up with one of your many incorrect assumptions lol. Being #1 in cable for the first time sure smells like failure lol.
> 
> Reality is AEW regularly breaks over a million views counting live and same day viewership.As its been said here multiple times this thread is a waste of time......TNT is really happy and AEW is only going to get better with full crowds and touring resuming soon.
> 
> This thread is just fun to watch and occasionally poke at.


#1 in terms of the archaic and arguably trivial demo — not viewership. And they are down from that. They are not growing.

Why do people speak to TNT’s mind? They got rid of Kevin Riley who gave them that slot. They are obviously airing AEW. That’s their prerogative right now. But we do not know how happy/disappointed they are with certain things, like viewership, ad revenue and the ad revenue split. We just don’t know.

These are all smokescreen arguments. TNT is “happy.” Well, until they aren’t. AEW occasionally gets 1 million views unopposed. Well, until they don’t.

Yes, I am cynical in response to modern pro-wrestling. But it isn’t based on nothing. TV networks can be flippant. They can change direction depending on which executive sees which line to making money. I don’t want to be hear about these iceberg audiences and people watching on tape delay and all these excuses. AEW does something to get a modicum of attention, then they lose those people they rope in. Acts of god might give them a good week, but they are unable to segue that into a growing audience or even goodwill with the greater wrestling fanbase that isn’t in that hardcore audience that always watches.


----------



## rich110991

GoldenEraWWFWCW said:


> dunno how someone’s opinion that differs from yours make them a hater. AEW is not great or not bad in my opinion it’s average but it’s just my opinion.


That’s always the escape for it too - “different opinions”

It’s just hating and there’s no need for it


----------



## GoldenEraWWFWCW

rich110991 said:


> That’s always the escape for it too - “different opinions”
> 
> It’s just hating and there’s no need for it


Maybe you should grow up and accept constructive criticism 🤷‍♂️


----------



## rich110991

GoldenEraWWFWCW said:


> Maybe you should grow up and accept constructive criticism 🤷‍♂️


Rude. It’s hardly constructive is it


----------



## CovidFan

GoldenEraWWFWCW said:


> Maybe you should grow up and accept constructive criticism 🤷‍♂️


There are quite a few regular posters who post just to hate on AEW. No matter what AEW does, they will hate. At least 3 of them posted since ratings came out. I'm not gonna name names cause I don't wanna have a back and forth about anything. But they don't offer "constructive criticism" and it's not just "a different opinion".



> AEW is not great or not bad in my opinion it’s average but it’s just my opinion.


and i actually completely agree with you. i think it could be better because some of the highs are really good but the lows are really low and things that shouldn't happen which just leave a bad taste in my mouth.


----------



## GoldenEraWWFWCW

CovidFan said:


> There are quite a few regular posters who post just to hate on AEW. No matter what AEW does, they will hate. At least 3 of them posted since ratings came out. I'm not gonna name names cause I don't wanna have a back and forth about anything. But they don't offer "constructive criticism" and it's not just "a different opinion".
> 
> and i actually completely agree with you. i think it could be better because some of the highs are really good but the lows are really low and things that shouldn't happen which just leave a bad taste in my mouth.


I do give credit to AEW for attempting to focus on better storylines which WWE don’t do a good job at anymore. AEW problem is way too many long matches and they need a better vision on focusing their product on their top guy and top story. What made previous eras a success they had that top guy or top story they base around and everything else came into play. In the 80s you had Hogan and Flair top guys that both products was based upon and the entire Monday war era the focus was on WCW vs NWO and on Raw Stone Cold rise and how Vince was gonna take him down.

I like the belt collector thing that Omega is doing and the show should be based on him as he’s their champion. You don’t want to close the show with Dark Order and guys that don’t fit into the story at hand that had Miro win the title. What’s missing now from these wrestling shows is a cliff hanger and what I mean is a story that ends the show and make you want to tune in next week to see what happens. It’s no secret why wrestling shows don’t bring the big ratings besides being able to steam which is a nothing topic but it’s nothing to make you want to tune in for the next week to see.


----------



## Mike E

I thought AEW would average around 850k without NXT, so this is another solid rating in my opinion. The numbers are going to fluctuate.


----------



## Mr316

Klitschko said:


> Oh I get ya. Well if you look at it that way than the only unique promotion is Lucha Underground. Everything else is the same old shit in my opinion.


Exactly. And that’s why AEW will never do better than WWE by presenting something just slightly different.


----------



## 3venflow

Quarterlies and analysis from Meltzer.

Darby vs. Miro was the peak on all major fronts. Bucks did well again too. Serious drop for the women's quarter with Thunder's squash.

Oh, and Cody's rambling promo didn't drive people off. 😂 

I still haven't been able to find its cable ranking this week, due to Showbuzz being down.

-

The show opened with 938,000 viewers and 357,000 in 18-49 for Jon Moxley vs. Yuji Nagata.

The second quarter with promos with Cody Rhodes and a Christopher Daniels video interview did 945,000 viewers and 373,000 in 18-49.

Young Bucks vs. Daniels & Frankie Kazarian for the tag team titles did 972,000 viewers and 394,000 in 18-49. This did the peak numbers in 18-34.

Quarter four with a Christian Cage and Matt Sydal interview and the beginning of Pac vs. Orange Cassidy did 925,000 viewers and 382,000 in 18-49.

The second part of Cassidy vs. Pac, the Kenny Omega & Don Callis promo the Young Bucks, Doc Gallows & Karl Anderson promo from their dressing room and the Adam Page & Dark Order promo did 928,000 viewers and 398,000 in 18-49.

The Pinnacle/Inner Circle promo and angle did 956,000 viewers and 446,000 in 18-49.

A Britt Baker interview, Thunder Rosa vs. Jazmin Allure and a Darby Allin video did 857,000 viewers and 389,000 in 18-49.

Allin vs. Miro for the TV title did 969,000 viewers and 448,000 in 18-49. It topped the show in total viewers, 18-49 and 35-49.

The number has to be considered a disappointment, particularly in the key demo. What’s notable is that in 18-34 the show did well, beating the Blood & Guts show slightly. The show had huge declines in both men and women 35-49, starting out very low, but it did show growth and peaked well for the Darby Allin vs. Miro TNT title match. The huge decline in the strongest demo usually points to a competing show, which may have been the NFL schedule show hurting the men. The women 35-49 was way down, but that’s more expected given the heavy blood the past two weeks.

Actual total viewers watching for the night were not down all that much from last week, but the big difference is last week last week the average viewer watched 71.5 percent and this week as far as same night viewership goes (this number will likely increase with DVR viewership) it was only 57.8 percent of the show. That also points to a competing show that caused people to tune in later or out earlier, but ratings patterns point to the former.

Of the 936,000 average viewers per minute, that would be 758,000 live and 178,000 via DVR by midnight. The total individual viewers that watched part of the show was 1,619,000 before midnight, down from 1,730,000 the prior week, so actual viewers were only down 6.4 percent.


----------



## ProjectGargano

AEW' fault, the Q7 drop, that was a piss break, nobody cares for a meaningless woman's squash match.


----------



## NathanMayberry

DaveRA said:


> My opinion, is noone's opinion counts.
> My second opinion (even though it doesnt count) is there is nothing AEW could do better short of cloning hogan and austin is some laboratory. The best booked show with the best performances would still be picked apart and stay at its current viewership.


Weren’t you the one who said Dynamite would be getting 1.4 million last year and that it would be beating Raw by All Out this year?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NathanMayberry

3venflow said:


> Quarterlies and analysis from Meltzer.
> 
> Darby vs. Miro was the peak on all major fronts. Bucks did well again too. Serious drop for the women's quarter with Thunder's squash.
> 
> Oh, and Cody's rambling promo didn't drive people off.
> 
> I still haven't been able to find its cable ranking this week, due to Showbuzz being down.
> 
> -
> 
> The show opened with 938,000 viewers and 357,000 in 18-49 for Jon Moxley vs. Yuji Nagata.
> 
> The second quarter with promos with Cody Rhodes and a Christopher Daniels video interview did 945,000 viewers and 373,000 in 18-49.
> 
> Young Bucks vs. Daniels & Frankie Kazarian for the tag team titles did 972,000 viewers and 394,000 in 18-49. This did the peak numbers in 18-34.
> 
> Quarter four with a Christian Cage and Matt Sydal interview and the beginning of Pac vs. Orange Cassidy did 925,000 viewers and 382,000 in 18-49.
> 
> The second part of Cassidy vs. Pac, the Kenny Omega & Don Callis promo the Young Bucks, Doc Gallows & Karl Anderson promo from their dressing room and the Adam Page & Dark Order promo did 928,000 viewers and 398,000 in 18-49.
> 
> The Pinnacle/Inner Circle promo and angle did 956,000 viewers and 446,000 in 18-49.
> 
> A Britt Baker interview, Thunder Rosa vs. Jazmin Allure and a Darby Allin video did 857,000 viewers and 389,000 in 18-49.
> 
> Allin vs. Miro for the TV title did 969,000 viewers and 448,000 in 18-49. It topped the show in total viewers, 18-49 and 35-49.
> 
> The number has to be considered a disappointment, particularly in the key demo. What’s notable is that in 18-34 the show did well, beating the Blood & Guts show slightly. The show had huge declines in both men and women 35-49, starting out very low, but it did show growth and peaked well for the Darby Allin vs. Miro TNT title match. The huge decline in the strongest demo usually points to a competing show, which may have been the NFL schedule show hurting the men. The women 35-49 was way down, but that’s more expected given the heavy blood the past two weeks.
> 
> Actual total viewers watching for the night were not down all that much from last week, but the big difference is last week last week the average viewer watched 71.5 percent and this week as far as same night viewership goes (this number will likely increase with DVR viewership) it was only 57.8 percent of the show. That also points to a competing show that caused people to tune in later or out earlier, but ratings patterns point to the former.
> 
> Of the 936,000 average viewers per minute, that would be 758,000 live and 178,000 via DVR by midnight. The total individual viewers that watched part of the show was 1,619,000 before midnight, down from 1,730,000 the prior week, so actual viewers were only down 6.4 percent.


The quarterlies are even worse to look at than the ratings itself.


Not a single segment averaged over a million. 

I really have to wonder exactly where Dynamite would be right now if NXT never moved. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

A table form of this week's ratings.

Q7 is something AEW should look at. It's easy to blame the match, but it was literally 1 minute, 53 seconds long and nestled between vignettes. A lot of vignette/backstage stuff has a history of not doing great for AEW. This isn't always the case, but it's a trend I have noticed.

Whereas, if you put relevant names in the ring, be it in a match or interview, the ratings will tend to do well. Look at the spike for the Bucks match and then the main event winning back over 100k viewers very quickly.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pretty stable

they’ll need a big story to draw more than this


----------



## The Wood

I saw a great video about fans vs. fanboys that is so very applicable to AEW. People criticising a product because they want it to do better isn’t hatred.


LifeInCattleClass said:


> Pretty stable
> 
> they’ll need a big story to draw more than this


They’ve actually got to get something over. There’s the problem.


----------



## 3venflow

Sounds like tickets for the three July shows are selling very fast. Already 1,625 sold for the show in Garland, Texas.

Just over 300 left for the Dallas show but they haven't opened it as full capacity yet so more may be added.


----------



## Geert Wilders

NathanMayberry said:


> The quarterlies are even worse to look at than the ratings itself.
> 
> 
> Not a single segment averaged over a million.
> 
> I really have to wonder exactly where Dynamite would be right now if NXT never moved.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Probably the same 700-750k they were doing. It is not long enough to make such absurd theories as to where they would be.


----------



## RapShepard

Whoanma said:


>


I hated this show as a little kid


----------



## rbl85

Hey Boss of Belair what happened during the quarter of Britt and Thunder Rosa ?

Only quarter below 900K and down 100K from the quarter before.

AEW is lucky that Cody saved the sho


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Says Miro/Darby topped viewers, but Bucks match had 3000 more?

Also man, this was one of the most consistent quarterly breakdowns I can recall, besides Q7. Wow. Nothing overly impressive, but they maintained many of the viewers throughout the duration of the show.


----------



## 3venflow

Apparently they finished 5th on cable this week. Not official, just word of mouth from someone on Twitter. Showbuzz may not be fully functional until Monday and they seem to be the only ones who post the top 150 in a timely fashion.

Also sounding like the new TNT show could be on Friday nights as they plan to start doing TV tapings on Fridays before PPVs... so it'd make sense, although they are doing Friday Night Dynamite before Double or Nothing.


----------



## 3venflow

Per a ticket account on Twitter, AEW have now sold 2,802 tickets for the Garland show and taken in over $112,000 already.


----------



## taker_2004

3venflow said:


> Per a ticket account on Twitter, AEW have now sold 2,802 tickets for the Garland show and taken in over $112,000 already.


So a bit over a third sold. 

Not bad










But


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

3venflow said:


> Apparently they finished 5th on cable this week. Not official, just word of mouth from someone on Twitter. Showbuzz may not be fully functional until Monday and they seem to be the only ones who post the top 150 in a timely fashion.
> 
> Also sounding like the new TNT show could be on Friday nights as they plan to start doing TV tapings on Fridays before PPVs... so it'd make sense, although they are doing Friday Night Dynamite before Double or Nothing.


Ouch. Wonder what the other shows were that it dropped that far.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> A table form of this week's ratings.
> 
> Q7 is something AEW should look at. It's easy to blame the match, but it was literally 1 minute, 53 seconds long and nestled between vignettes. A lot of vignette/backstage stuff has a history of not doing great for AEW. This isn't always the case, but it's a trend I have noticed.
> 
> Whereas, if you put relevant names in the ring, be it in a match or interview, the ratings will tend to do well. Look at the spike for the Bucks match and then the main event winning back over 100k viewers very quickly.
> 
> View attachment 101172
> 
> 
> View attachment 101173


*I can speak as someone who tuned out after the Britt Baker promo, because that was the high point for me and I didn't give a s*** about the squash as soon as I saw the other competitor in the ring. Also, LOL @ Dave still pushing the women hate blood narrative when they all tuned in for the actual blood and guts match. *


----------



## yeahright2

Apparently there was 800 people in attendance at the last show.
200 tickets where given away for free..


----------



## taker_2004

yeahright2 said:


> Apparently there was 800 people in attendance at the last show.
> 200 tickets where given away for free..


Will TARP make his AEW debut??


----------



## yeahright2

taker_2004 said:


> Will TARP make his AEW debut??


Tarp as AEW Champion


----------



## TD Stinger

AEW Dynamite To Be Preempted In June Due To NBA - Wrestling Inc.


AEW Dynamite is scheduled to be preempted for more dates in June due to the NBA Playoffs airing on TNT. It was previously reported that the normally scheduled Wednesday, May 26 Dynamite show was being moved to Friday, May 28 at 10pm ET due to the NBA on TNT. That will be the go-home show […]




www.wrestlinginc.com





Looks like almost every episode in June will be preempted.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

yeahright2 said:


> Tarp as AEW Champion


Tarpy Allin? 🤔


----------



## yeahright2

Pentagon Senior said:


> Tarpy Allin? 🤔


Darby´s long lost cousin


----------



## rbl85

yeahright2 said:


> Apparently there was 800 people in attendance at the last show.
> 200 tickets where given away for free..


If i'm living is Jacksonville i'm not going to pay for this week show or the 2next weeks, i keep my money for the PPV.


----------



## taker_2004

yeahright2 said:


> Darby´s long lost cousin


Or identical twin that swerves us when he climbs out from under the ring with reverse body makeup.


----------



## yeahright2

taker_2004 said:


> Or identical twin that swerves us when he climbs out from under the ring with reverse body makeup.


That would actually be a pretty cool visual. Standing face to face with a camera sideshot similar to what they did with Darby/Sting.


----------



## rbl85

3venflow said:


> Per a ticket account on Twitter, AEW have now sold 2,802 tickets for the Garland show and taken in over $112,000 already.


AEW opened 5348 seats in Garland and 2978 are for the moment sold


----------



## Mister Sinister

Two things to be taken from the quarter hours:
-They started low from the start because viewers were turned off by last week's garbage mayhem, and they opened with a Japanese wrestler in his fifties this week.
-Long matches every week aren't pulling them in. Don't get me wrong-- you do big main events every now and then, but those are main events. This week's main event was short and perfect. Length does not automatically equal good in wrestling.


----------



## rbl85

Mister Sinister said:


> Two things to be taken from the quarter hours:
> -*They started low from the start because viewers were turned off by last week's garbage mayhem,* and they opened with a Japanese wrestler in his fifties this week.
> -Long matches every week aren't pulling them in. Don't get me wrong-- you do big main events every now and then, but those are main events. This week's main event was short and perfect. Length does not automatically equal good in wrestling.


You're saying that because you're hoping that it's the reason but nobody knows and we will probably never know the reason.

Also the segment who lost the most viewers was the one with the most promos/video package so no the long match aren't the problem (not for AEW) the quarters with a lot of video packages and promo are (except if you are Jericho and Moxley)


----------



## The Wood

TARP is on the warpath!


----------



## taker_2004

The Wood said:


> TARP is on the warpath!


He's running wild, brotha!










Fun Fact: TARP is the OG Belt Collector. Omega ripped him off.


----------



## yeahright2

taker_2004 said:


> He's running wild, brotha!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fun Fact: TARP is the OG Belt Collector. Omega ripped him off.


No man. You´re confusing Tarp with the fabulous VACANT


----------



## taker_2004

yeahright2 said:


> No man. You´re confusing Tarp with the fabulous VACANT


Ah yeah, true, fair point. VACANT is more decorated, but TARP started to oudraw him in 2003 and, by 2006, he had already surpassed VACANT to become the single biggest draw in history of professional wrestling.


----------



## The Wood

TARP ended up with the AWA Title at some point, but I don’t know if you want to call that a real World Title.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Prosper said:


> Fix what? What was so abysmal on a grand scale last night that needed fixing?
> 
> Simple fact is that people watch when they can. And I don't mean that as an excuse but just reality. They won't drop to 685K. Live numbers don't reflect every watcher. I'm pretty sure you haven't seen every show live either have you? Do you contribute to live ratings or do you stream? DVR numbers themselves show that people still watch, just not live every single week, which is the only issue for advertisers. But in this case not really an issue seeing as anything over 800K is more than fine for the network. You guys are over-inflating your live viewer expectations and saying that great numbers like 900K are bad when they're in fact good.
> 
> I just don't understand how people here on one hand can realize that they personally can't ALWAYS be in front of their TV's on time every week, then on the other hand, see that others can't do the same, then go on to use that as reasoning for AEW "losing their audience". If you're a fan of a movie franchise and you don't see the third movie in a trilogy at a theater on opening night, and you watch it a week later, does that mean that the franchise lost you as a fan? Or does it mean that you simply got to it when you had the time to get to it?
> 
> I'm not denying the fact that live viewers mean a lot, I'm more so speaking to those who are spelling doom and gloom when ratings fluctuate. Like I said earlier, it's comical.


Seems like excuses to me. I think when they hit 685 again, both AEW and TNT are going to panic. Cause this is the lowest number they got I picked that but it could get lower as well. This is an issue I realised with AEW ever since the non-exploding ring, when they drop, they DROP! Like bigger than the WWE ever did. They seem to be dropping like when TNA put Impact on Mondays against Raw. There is something that are putting people off. Even the die hards are losing faith.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Hitman1987 said:


> Not really, there’s been a few instances of AEW using a special attraction (Sting/Shaq/Blood and Guts/1st week without NXT) where they’ve popped over a million in ratings and shortly after they return to below a million and Orange Cassidy has been there over the whole period.
> 
> I’m pretty sure, although not 100%, that when he was feuding with Jericho and when he had a few TNT title matches that he didn’t grow or maintain audience either.


A huge part of the Jericho-OC feud didn't do good ratings. It's easy to see by looking at when it started last June onward.


----------



## The Wood

Wolf Mark said:


> Seems like excuses to me. I think when they hit 685 again, both AEW and TNT are going to panic. Cause this is the lowest number they got I picked that but it could get lower as well. This is an issue I realised with AEW ever since the non-exploding ring, when they drop, they DROP! Like bigger than the WWE ever did. They seem to be dropping like when TNA put Impact on Mondays against Raw. There is something that are putting people off. Even the die hards are losing faith.


At some point potential needs to be cashed in on. Otherwise it’s just a golden carrot that becomes a broken promise.

People will wait and see until they are tired of waiting and are convinced they’re not going to get anything at the end.

This promotion isn’t new anymore. They’ve been on the air for over 18 months now. They’ve existed as an entity for over 2 years. You can’t keep promising to get your shit together. Even if you like this, you have to be able to admit that it isn’t “changing the world.” They made grand promises about being a true alternative, but have dragged their feet on that.

Hogan eventually stopped working wherever he was. Austin was not going to be white hot forever and a day just because he was Steve Austin. At some point, 2 years in, people are going to look at the ideal and what they’ve got and realise that this doesn’t match up to their ideal.


----------



## Wolf Mark

The Wood said:


> At some point potential needs to be cashed in on. Otherwise it’s just a golden carrot that becomes a broken promise.
> 
> People will wait and see until they are tired of waiting and are convinced they’re not going to get anything at the end.
> 
> This promotion isn’t new anymore. They’ve been on the air for over 18 months now. They’ve existed as an entity for over 2 years. You can’t keep promising to get your shit together. Even if you like this, you have to be able to admit that it isn’t “changing the world.” They made grand promises about being a true alternative, but have dragged their feet on that.
> 
> Hogan eventually stopped working wherever he was. Austin was not going to be white hot forever and a day just because he was Steve Austin. At some point, 2 years in, people are going to look at the ideal and what they’ve got and realise that this doesn’t match up to their ideal.


Great post. At some point things have to come together and deliver on the promise. I realised when watching the Pinnacle-Inner Circle that "things are not gonna get better, are they? This is the best they can do". I was hoping when the Pinncacle formed that this at least would be something worth watching. Cause they were falling into my area but nope. It's simply not good. There's no storylines that can propel them. The Omega stuff is just bad.

I'll be honest even when Dynamite started and there was the Moxley-Inner Circle storyline, I thought this was recycled storyline about Mox joining them like Stone Cold had done with Vince. Then I would listen Meltzer and he was calling it "genius". It's funny I didn't hear him say that when Bobby Roode was TNA Champ and was beating on Sting and it was a thousand times better.


----------



## Mister Sinister

How many times does the garbage wrestling have to damage the ratings before the connection is made? They keep doing this over and over. We got the reports after the brutal womens match that women are turned away by this shit. So are families. They might as well pull Tay Conti's pants off and show her full puss on TNT because it's not getting families.


----------



## The Wood

Wolf Mark said:


> Great post. At some point things have to come together and deliver on the promise. I realised when watching the Pinnacle-Inner Circle that "things are not gonna get better, are they? This is the best they can do". I was hoping when the Pinncacle formed that this at least would be something worth watching. Cause they were falling into my area but nope. It's simply not good. There's no storylines that can propel them. The Omega stuff is just bad.
> 
> I'll be honest even when Dynamite started and there was the Moxley-Inner Circle storyline, I thought this was recycled storyline about Mox joining them like Stone Cold had done with Vince. Then I would listen Meltzer and he was calling it "genius". It's funny I didn't hear him say that when Bobby Roode was TNA Champ and was beating on Sting and it was a thousand times better.


That Jericho/Mox program reminded me _so much_ of the WWE version. Instead of a pot plant, Moxley had car keys. The car also served as a surrogate for Jericho’s jacket. Mox’s promos still had that trend towards goofiness. “Just kidding...it’s a stupid group.” That wasn’t really funny, nor was it even clever. He just...lied. The story flipped for the sake of it. A swerve for no purpose other than a “the opposite is actually true” pop.

A lot of people loved that, but I just saw the WWE matrix code in it all. Jon Moxley is zany and aloof. Jericho is a rich asshole who values his possessions. Eh. It didn’t tap into anything _different_ beyond the particulars.


----------



## The Wood

Mister Sinister said:


> How many times does the garbage wrestling have to damage the ratings before the connection is made? They keep doing this over and over. We got the reports after the brutal womens match that women are turned away by this shit. So are families. They might as well pull Tay Conti's pants off and show her full puss on TNT because it's not getting families.


I’ll watch for 4.5 people if that happens though.


----------



## One Shed

Mister Sinister said:


> How many times does the garbage wrestling have to damage the ratings before the connection is made? They keep doing this over and over. We got the reports after the brutal womens match that women are turned away by this shit. So are families. They might as well pull Tay Conti's pants off and show her full puss on TNT because it's not getting families.


I hope they hold a contest to book a segment and you win that contest.


----------



## thorn123

NathanMayberry said:


> Weren’t you the one who said Dynamite would be getting 1.4 million last year and that it would be beating Raw by All Out this year?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nope. I am a pessimist. I never thought they would catch raw even with superior programming.


----------



## DaSlacker

From a purely business perspective, AEW Dynamite should probably be PG to be honest. Apart from the blading, tendency to say 'shit' a few times and occasional weapons, which barely draws, it's pretty tame stuff. A by-product of PC culture. A start up should aim for all demographics imo. 

They should add on a PPV or two (six per year is fine) and save Blood and Guts, Thunder Rose vs Dr Baker hardcore type stuff for these additional PPVs. 

Really though they need a couple of experienced bookers to format this show and the matches. Not it will happen. Meltzer gave three matches out of the five on the last show a ****, ****1/4 and ***3/4. So all is good lol.


----------



## mazzah20

Genuinely curious, have AEW ever opened with a promo like Raw and Smackdown do?

They may want to experiment with it. Coz it does make sense to open up instantly addressing with what was hot on last weeks episode rather than random matches.

Now opening up (and closing the show) with title matches is good when pre-advertised with name talents, but it is good to establish that something hot is happening every week at the start of the show. There have been so many times that there has been a hot finish or a PPV and then Dynamite opens with a zero heat 5vs5 match from the midcard.


----------



## Dizzie

mazzah20 said:


> Genuinely curious, have AEW ever opened with a promo like Raw and Smackdown do?
> 
> They may want to experiment with it. Coz it does make sense to open up instantly addressing with what was hot on last weeks episode rather than random matches.
> 
> Now opening up (and closing the show) with title matches is good when pre-advertised with name talents, but it is good to establish that something hot is happening every week at the start of the show. There have been so many times that there has been a hot finish or a PPV and then Dynamite opens with a zero heat 5vs5 match from the midcard.


This, how many times after a ppv during the attitude era did we not see it open with it being about the wrestlers that were in the main of the PPV which 9 times out of 10 featured either austin or the rock. Same could be said for wcw during their peak period.


----------



## 3venflow

They have opened with promos a few times, like one with Mox and one with Cody and the Elite when the pandemic hit.

But wrestling generally draws better than promos for AEW - not as a rule, but this is a trend. Their ethos is to start and finish with wrestling as much as they can.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Two Sheds said:


> I hope they hold a contest to book a segment and you win that contest.


JR: What just happened?
Tony: Ummm...
Xavier: I think Penelope just tried to grab Tay's tights for the roll-up.
Tony: Ummm... We'll be back after this commercial break.


----------



## One Shed

Mister Sinister said:


> JR: What just happened?
> Tony: Ummm...
> Xavier: I think Penelope just tried to grab Tay's tights for the roll-up.
> Tony: Ummm... We'll be back after this commercial break.


JR: "Hang on, I gotta pop another Blue Chew!"
Tony: "Now THIS truly is the greatest night in the history of our sport!"
Excalibur: "Wait, what is that?"


----------



## Ger

The Wood said:


> ...
> This promotion isn’t new anymore. They’ve been on the air for over 18 months now. They’ve existed as an entity for over 2 years. You can’t keep promising to get your shit together. Even if you like this, you have to be able to admit that it isn’t “changing the world.” They made grand promises about being a true alternative, but have dragged their feet on that.
> ...


A good number of people in IWC were very excited 2 years ago and a low percentage even talked about about AEW could seriously damage WWE. It was like floating over the cloads for some people. A few people now still believed, that Dynamite would start like a rocket, when NXT is out of way. I also expected them to do much better. Too bad, it didn't work. Meanwhile we all know, that WWE's biggest enemy is still WWE and AEW is "just" doing good. Nothing bad with doing good. Ratings are not great, that's all.
To be fair: we had cared much less about AEW, if they had said: "nah, we will just a create another wrestling show with hopefully good ratings". Talking big is part of the game, I guess.



NathanMayberry said:


> Weren’t you the one who said Dynamite would be getting 1.4 million last year and that it would be beating Raw by All Out this year?


See above, what I wrote about the clouds. There is no need to chase down people for stuff they said 1 or 2 years ago about a wrestling company, in my opinion. But I understand why that happens, because we have still a few people around, who try to sell the Dynamite ratings as "great" and are looking for excuses. Or they hope that TK would pull something out of his hat. Let them do that and give them more time to get over their disappointment. 
Meanwhile, if AEW doesn't drop even more, I am already happy.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Too many pointless matches and not enough storyline/drama etc....... too many people who shouldn’t be on the show on it.

Just not interesting enough to be honest. 

The pandemic hasn’t helped one bit. I’ll tune back in when crowds are fully back and the show looks normal again, I’m bored of the daily’s place set up now, the whole thing needs to be updated now. Hopefully they debut a new set etc when they go on the road.


----------



## 3venflow

Ticket updates c/o the awesome AEW ticket account on Twitter.

7/7 Miami show will be 50% capacity in line with Miami's rules. It is now virtually sold out with just 50 or so tickets remaining. I believe the capacity will be somewhere around 2,250.

7/14 Cedar Park show had sold over 3,100 tickets (capacity just under 4,000) as of a day ago.

7/21 Garland show had also sold well over 3,000 tickets as of yesterday and is en route to being a full sell out.

The Texas shows have probably guaranteed a quarter million or more in ticket revenue already for AEW.


----------



## Martyn

Glad to see they're doing well with those tapings. Hopefully they're going to be able to run Chicago for All Out.


----------



## omaroo

Isn't most of America doing full capacity shows or only some parts? 

Be great if all out is sold out in Chicago.


----------



## rbl85

3venflow said:


> Ticket updates c/o the awesome AEW ticket account on Twitter.
> 
> 7/7 Miami show will be 50% capacity in line with Miami's rules. It is now virtually sold out with just 50 or so tickets remaining. I believe the capacity will be somewhere around 2,250.
> 
> 7/14 Cedar Park show had sold over 3,100 tickets (capacity just under 4,000) as of a day ago.
> 
> 7/21 Garland show had also sold well over 3,000 tickets as of yesterday and is en route to being a full sell out.
> 
> The Texas shows have probably guaranteed a quarter million or more in ticket revenue already for AEW.


Garland show have sold at the moment 3263 or 3363 (not sure if a particular section was open or not) out of the 5348 that they opened but 5348 is not the full arena, the full arena is 6448 seats. Basically 50% of the arena is sold.

In Cedar Park they opened 3958 seats (full capacity is 4888 seats) and they sold 3153 tickets


----------



## One Shed

omaroo said:


> Isn't most of America doing full capacity shows or only some parts?
> 
> Be great if all out is sold out in Chicago.


Only a few. Several states have removed restrictions but most businesses are still not comfortable opening themselves up to full capacity yet.


----------



## Brad Boyd

mazzah20 said:


> Genuinely curious, have AEW ever opened with a promo like Raw and Smackdown do?
> 
> They may want to experiment with it. Coz it does make sense to open up instantly addressing with what was hot on last weeks episode rather than random matches.
> 
> Now opening up (and closing the show) with title matches is good when pre-advertised with name talents, but it is good to establish that something hot is happening every week at the start of the show. There have been so many times that there has been a hot finish or a PPV and then Dynamite opens with a zero heat 5vs5 match from the midcard.


AEW caters to the work rate marks they wouldn't want to do that cause that would distract them from getting their potential 5 star meltzer match.

Remember Bucks cutting a promo bragging about a Meltzer rating. Horrible.


----------



## DammitChrist

It's nice how I can still laugh at the fact that the show is still doing pretty damn well considering the fact that Dynamite received well over 900 K viewers this past week 

Once again, they should continue catering to their passionate wrestling audience  

For the record, it's cool to see that Cody Rhodes's (great) promo actually INCREASED some viewership since I remember being told that he "tanks" in the ratings 😂 

I bet Cody's heel run later on in the future will be gold for sure.


----------



## Mister Sinister

If I were booking the show, Tay would be featured every single f'n week. If I'm going to finger the top potential draws to channel surfers... Tay is on that list. Tay looks like Playmate of the Year.


----------



## .christopher.

WWE are still consistently losing viewers. If AEW get their shit together, they could be getting around the same ball park by next year. There's over a million people wanting to give AEW a chance, and I reckon it won't be long until a few more hundred thousand give up on the WWE by 2022 at this rate.

People keep mentioning that AEW need that one big storyline to hook viewers like Daniel Bryan's yes movement, which is true. However, look at the few stories that have gathered interest in the past decade +:
Nexus invasion in 2010
Punk giving the WWE the fuck you in 2011
Bryan trying to overcome the authority in 2013/14
And, at a stretch, Becky Lynch vs Ronda Rousey

The thing they all had in common - especially with Punk and Bryan's stories - is that people bought into them because they were being portrayed as real. Yes, kayfabe is dead, but people still want to lose themselves in a story. If AEW can find that story and keep it serious, there's a chance with the rate WWE are losing viewers.


----------



## Ger

Mister Sinister said:


> If I were booking the show, Tay would be featured every single f'n week. If I'm going to finger the top potential draws to channel surfers... Tay is on that list. Tay looks like Playmate of the Year.


Tay is good and I am seriously happy for her, that she could do a restart at AEW.



.christopher. said:


> WWE are still consistently losing viewers. If AEW get their shit together, they could be getting around the same ball park by next year. There's over a million people wanting to give AEW a chance, and I reckon it won't be long until a few more hundred thousand give up on the WWE by 2022 at this rate.
> 
> People keep mentioning that AEW need that one big storyline to hook viewers like Daniel Bryan's yes movement, which is true. However, look at the few stories that have gathered interest in the past decade +:
> ...
> 
> The thing they all had in common - especially with Punk and Bryan's stories - is that people bought into them because they were being portrayed as real. Yes, kayfabe is dead, but people still want to lose themselves in a story. If AEW can find that story and keep it serious, there's a chance with the rate WWE are losing viewers.


I am not a fan of your approach. I want AEW to be in the "same park", because they attract more viewers with a better program - you showed one way - and not just because WWE keeps driving itself down. Also these comparisons to WWE do AEW no favor. I read that a lot on IWC, but if I check numbers last weeks, I see SD had 2,2million viewers at may 7, while AEW had 0,9million viewers a few days later. It is pretty difficult to take these comparisons serious then, sorry to say that. Obvisouly AEW still got some stuff to do to close this gap and if WWE is *so extremly bad,* like people wrote on IWC for years, then AEW should look for even higher numbers than 2,2 million viewers, let's say 3+ million. At the moment AEW is hopefully stable around 1 Mio, so there is room for improvement. F$§k what WWE is doing, doesn't matter, go for the 2 million and then go further.

By the way:
I am aware of, that a few people just sit in IWC and wait for WWE killing itself with all shows and when a AEW show has one time the highest rating of all wrestling shows in a week, doesn't matter how low it is (let's say 1.2million), then people do a party. Good for them, but I don't care. To me, that is like winning a sports-match, if my opponent just doesn't appear.


----------



## taker_2004

DaSlacker said:


> From a purely business perspective, AEW Dynamite should probably be PG to be honest. Apart from the blading, tendency to say 'shit' a few times and occasional weapons, which barely draws, it's pretty tame stuff. A by-product of PC culture. A start up should aim for all demographics imo.


This is interesting and something I hadn't really considered. It's obvious that culture, specifically political correctness, has evolved a lot since the last time wrestling was truly adult-oriented. Every aspect of the work--from tropes and gimmicks, to blading and use of weapons--is made more difficult by it I imagine. And that's to say nothing of the increasing polarization of the American general public, which precludes any ability to present a unified heel or face. If nobody agrees on morality, how do you work those sensibilities to get a rise out of people?


----------



## 3venflow

Not sure what, if any, effect this might have on AEW but it's pretty big news.









AT&T Announces Massive Deal To Spin Off WarnerMedia And Merge It With Discovery


Hollywood continues to change, as AT&T announces a massive deal with its former rival Discovery.




www.gamespot.com





Also... DoN ticket sales have just started.


----------



## 3venflow

Daily's Place is gonna be packed!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1394295484433453056


----------



## TKO Wrestling

mazzah20 said:


> Genuinely curious, have AEW ever opened with a promo like Raw and Smackdown do?
> 
> They may want to experiment with it. Coz it does make sense to open up instantly addressing with what was hot on last weeks episode rather than random matches.
> 
> Now opening up (and closing the show) with title matches is good when pre-advertised with name talents, but it is good to establish that something hot is happening every week at the start of the show. There have been so many times that there has been a hot finish or a PPV and then Dynamite opens with a zero heat 5vs5 match from the midcard.


Probably my biggest complaint with Dynamite. MJF should have started off last weeks show. Heat seaking missle to start off the show. I think it should be mixed, slightly towards large, advertised matches (like you said), but 25% of the Dynamites starting with a promo addressing something big would be nice.


----------



## Prosper

3venflow said:


> Daily's Place is gonna be packed!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1394295484433453056


Damn pretty much almost sold out in under 20 minutes. 

The crowd reactions are gonna be epic. Can't wait.


----------



## rbl85

Prosper said:


> Damn pretty much almost sold out in under 20 minutes.
> 
> The crowd reactions are gonna be epic. Can't wait.


Not every sections were opened, now there is a lot of tickets available


----------



## Millennial

rbl85 said:


> Not every sections were opened, now there is a lot of tickets available


They will sell out, no doubt about it.


----------



## rbl85

rbl85 said:


> Garland show have sold at the moment 3263 or 3363 (not sure if a particular section was open or not) out of the 5348 that they opened but 5348 is not the full arena, the full arena is 6448 seats. Basically 50% of the arena is sold.
> 
> In Cedar Park they opened 3958 seats (full capacity is 4888 seats) and they sold 3153 tickets


3430 tickets sold in Garland.
3213 tickets sold in Cedar Park.


----------



## YamchaRocks

"but Tony Khan has no idea what he's doing! Hire Cornette!"

Great numbers, business is picking up.


----------



## NathanMayberry

YamchaRocks said:


> "but Tony Khan has no idea what he's doing! Hire Cornette!"
> 
> Great numbers, business is picking up.


Make sure you keep that same energy when they do more shows and those arenas are filled with tarps like they were before in pre-COVID AEW.


----------



## Klitschko

NathanMayberry said:


> Make sure you keep that same energy when they do more shows and those arenas are filled with tarps like they were before in pre-COVID AEW.


I actually don't think this will happen for a while with all the wrestling companies once the fans start being allowed to come back. We have all been locked up for so long that people are craving to go out and get some entertainment. I would say probably for a solid year or so, wrestling will have good crowds before the legendary tarp makes his return. Idk, just a guess honestly.


----------



## Millennial

NathanMayberry said:


> Make sure you keep that same energy when they do more shows and those arenas are filled with tarps like they were before in pre-COVID AEW.


Why so negative mate? Do you watch AEW?


----------



## El Hammerstone

Millennial said:


> Why so negative mate? Do you watch AEW?


You already know the answer to that Pippen


----------



## DammitChrist

That's awesome! Can we keep him this time? 

We can use more folks like him with valuable and substantial thoughts here.


----------



## Brad Boyd

DammitChrist said:


> That's awesome! Can we keep him this time?
> 
> We can use more folks like him with valuable and substantial thoughts here.


Just cause Pippen stays on the "loyalist/defensive fanboy" kind of side doesn't make him great. He was permabanned for a reason.


----------



## The Wood

Klitschko said:


> I actually don't think this will happen for a while with all the wrestling companies once the fans start being allowed to come back. We have all been locked up for so long that people are craving to go out and get some entertainment. I would say probably for a solid year or so, wrestling will have good crowds before the legendary tarp makes his return. Idk, just a guess honestly.


I don’t think you’re wrong, in theory. I just don’t think it will extend for as long as you do. But this is why they’ve managed to almost sell out their currently advertised shows.

I think a combination of other things becoming available, the AEW shows themselves and just the novelty wearing off will see people taper off fairly wuickky



DammitChrist said:


> That's awesome! Can we keep him this time?
> 
> We can use more folks like him with valuable and substantial thoughts here.


He was permanently exiled for a reason. One of those was because he was caught being a flat-out liar. If that’s what you call substantial, let it reflect on your positions.


----------



## rbl85

They shouldn't have done DON in Jacksonville


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Honestly I'll be glad to see a new venue, I'm sick of Daily's Place. Club La Vela was cool cause you saw it once a year, not every week lol.



rbl85 said:


> They shouldn't have done DON in Jacksonville


I agree but they're doing Stadium Stampede again so they have to.


----------



## Geert Wilders

I agree with Wood and Klitschko. The tarps will come out once the novelty wears off.

AEW should absolutely be doing smaller arenas going forward. A sold-out arena sounds much better than "Tickets still available!" two days before the show. It gives the idea that AEW live is a must watch product. You can raise the price of tickets and make almost as much as you would by hiring a big arena which you can't sell out.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

Geert Wilders said:


> I agree with Wood and Klitschko. The tarps will come out once the novelty wears off.
> 
> AEW should absolutely be doing smaller arenas going forward. A sold-out arena sounds much better than "Tickets still available!" two days before the show. It gives the idea that AEW live is a must watch product. You can raise the price of tickets and make almost as much as you would by hiring a big arena which you can't sell out.


I think it'll just depend on where they're playing. If it's a big market, or a hot wrestling town I think they'll be able to keep selling out for a good while. Before the pandemic they were playing kind of smaller markets in the west, their last show and the worst selling one was Salt Lake City which is not really known as a bumping wrestling mecca, but their next 2 for Rochester and Newark were nearly sold out I think. If they're running places like Chicago, the I-95 Corridor, Atlanta, Texas, I think they'll be fine.


----------



## La Parka

Jeez, Pip. At least use a VPN and change your country next time.

Here’s some advice. Post in the WWE section for a while before you spill over to the AEW section and post in the exact same style as you did on pippen


----------



## rbl85

Geert Wilders said:


> I agree with Wood and Klitschko. The tarps will come out once the novelty wears off.
> 
> AEW should absolutely be doing smaller arenas going forward. A sold-out arena sounds much better than "Tickets still available!" two days before the show. It gives the idea that AEW live is a must watch product. You can raise the price of tickets and make almost as much as you would by hiring a big arena which you can't sell out.


Even WWE don't sell out any arena now


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Geert Wilders said:


> I agree with Wood and Klitschko. The tarps will come out once the novelty wears off.
> 
> AEW should absolutely be doing smaller arenas going forward. A sold-out arena sounds much better than "Tickets still available!" two days before the show. It gives the idea that AEW live is a must watch product. You can raise the price of tickets and make almost as much as you would by hiring a big arena which you can't sell out.


business one-oh-one

a 10k arena will not cost you double a 5k arena, and not 5x a 2k arena

arena’s are very similarly priced above a certain seat count

2nd - you always at least want to overshoot your estimation by 25% - just in case its a hot ticket and you sell more

you’re gonna pay staff the same / wrestlers the same - why not run a 10k if it gives you a chance of selling 10k, if the downside is negligible (and so on and so forth)

contrary to popular belief ‘sold out’ rarely makes you more money / and the ‘optics’ around it only carries you so far

if they were always ‘sold out’ for months then frankly their planning is bad and then there would be a case for the Tk is a bad promoter crew

ps> same goes for if they always run 25%capacity for months


----------



## Geert Wilders

rbl85 said:


> Even WWE don't sell out any arena now


Because WWE is shit. Did you see the lacklustre shows they produced prior to the pandemic? Appalling state. AEW were at least in a much better place creatively prior to the pandemic, although that was only about 6 months or so.


----------



## Millennial

kennykiller12 said:


> Honestly I'll be glad to see a new venue, I'm sick of Daily's Place. Club La Vela was cool cause you saw it once a year, not every week lol.
> 
> 
> I agree but they're doing Stadium Stampede again so they have to.


I think Daily's Place can look good if they set the cameras facing the crowd. They should try this for DoN.


----------



## Klitschko

Millennial said:


> I think Daily's Place can look good if they set the cameras facing the crowd. They should try this for DoN.


They should do it like when they did their first fight for the fallen show. That layout and those camera angles made it look so special.


----------



## spiderguy252000

Klitschko said:


> They should do it like when they did their first fight for the fallen show. That layout and those camera angles made it looks so special.
> 
> View attachment 101458


from the ticketing map it looks like this will be the set up!


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Millennial said:


> Why so negative mate? Do you watch AEW?


It's past your bed time Pippen, get outta here.


----------



## YamchaRocks

El Hammerstone said:


> You already know the answer to that Pippen


He was almost always the voice of reason around here, so I'm sure he does know the answer tbh 😛


The Wood said:


> He was permanently exiled for a reason. One of those was because he was caught being a flat-out liar. If that’s what you call substantial, let it reflect on your positions.


Except he WASN'T 'caught being a flat-out liar' though 😂, but hey, continue to spread your 'truths' 😛


La Parka said:


> Jeez, Pip. At least use a VPN and change your country next time.
> 
> Here’s some advice. Post in the WWE section for a while before you spill over to the AEW section and post in the exact same style as you did on pippen


Actually, most folk here could learn about being a reasonable poster from Pippen tbh


----------



## La Parka

YamchaRocks said:


> He was almost always the voice of reason around here, so I'm sure he does know the answer tbh 😛
> 
> Except he WASN'T 'caught being a flat-out liar' though 😂, but hey, continue to spread your 'truths' 😛
> 
> Actually, most folk here could learn about being a reasonable poster from Pippen tbh


The only thing anyone could learn from pippen is how to get banned and make obvious alt accounts.


----------



## Aedubya

spiderguy252000 said:


> from the ticketing map it looks like this will be the set up!


Camera facing crowd?


----------



## spiderguy252000

Aedubya said:


> Camera facing crowd?


yup! What is now the tunnel entrance is actually a seating area for audience members.The map has the exact lay out as the Daily’s Place dynamite before the pandemic 










what’s interesting is the Friday night dynamite ALSO has that setting but not nearly as many people have purchased tickets


----------



## YamchaRocks

La Parka said:


> The only thing anyone could learn from pippen is how to get banned and make obvious alt accounts.


Nah, your take on Pippen is quite awful tbh.

But let's not go off topic anymore, back to ratings talk


----------



## 3venflow

Full Gear will be on a Saturday in St. Louis.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1395071175412310018


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Full Gear will be on a Saturday in St. Louis.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1395071175412310018


awesome - hated the Sunday ppv


----------



## RiverFenix

LifeInCattleClass said:


> awesome - hated the Sunday ppv


Don't know why Khan moved to Sunday - You can't worry about UFC cards, they seemingly run every Saturday these days. DoN3 is also Sunday this year. Maybe with the new Rampage show AEW will be less inclined to move PPV's to Sundays, with Rampage being the promotional lead in "go home" show. 

Pre-PPV Rampage shows will seemingly be live as well at the PPV venue. This is strange in that the PPV should sell out much bigger arenas than a 1 hr secondary television show. Maybe they'll offer package deal tickets.


----------



## Geert Wilders

I enjoyed waking up Sunday morning and putting on AEW.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

make no mistake - TK got that bag


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1395088418561007620


----------



## Mister Sinister

I'm calling it at 800k this week. They are on the decline and this week was awful. Next week might be lower. These cards are the worst I've seen in wrestling television since Doink and Nails were on tv.


----------



## The Wood

As I’ve said before, if anyone still believes Tony Khan, they are just being naive at this point. The dude is a habitual liar.


----------



## Millennial

The Wood said:


> As I’ve said before, if anyone still believes Tony Khan, they are just being naive at this point. The dude is a habitual liar.


Why do you take any interest in his company then?


----------



## .christopher.

Millennial said:


> Why do you take any interest in his company then?


Wrestling fan takes an interest in a wrestling company. More news at 11.


----------



## DammitChrist

.christopher. said:


> *Wrestling fan *takes an interest in a wrestling company. More news at 11.


How do we know for sure though?


----------



## Aedubya

.91


----------



## The Wood

Millennial said:


> Why do you take any interest in his company then?


Because I’m interested in wrestling. Why do you need to have a cult-like worship of Tony Khan to follow AEW?


----------



## Geert Wilders

The Wood said:


> As I’ve said before, if anyone still believes Tony Khan, they are just being naive at this point. The dude is a habitual liar.


It's almost like he's a businessman and will say anything to sell his product.


----------



## The Wood

Geert Wilders said:


> It's almost like he's a businessman and will say anything to sell his product.


Yeah, almost like that. But I can’t believe how many people think he’s a nice, always honest guy.

By the way, business folk don’t _need_ to lie. Some have a product they can sell honestly. But TK is definitely one of those not above it.


----------



## reamstyles

Geert Wilders said:


> It's almost like he's a businessman and will say anything to sell his product.


I think this was the advantage Vinny Mac had over Dixie and Tony Khan as being involved with the business is concern, being a Commentator in his show, he was given a pass to hype people or wwf up compare to Dixie and Tony where they credibility was questioned everytime the surprise they give is below fans expectations. Good thing there was no twitter back then when wwf was an upstart in national level as concern


----------



## TD Stinger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1395447285677322241
Last week, IIRC, was a .31 in the Demo, down from .42 (Blood & Guts).

So I'll be interested to see what the number is if things are down "significantly".


----------



## ProjectGargano

TD Stinger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1395447285677322241
> Last week, IIRC, was a .31 in the Demo, down from .42 (Blood & Guts).
> 
> So I'll be interested to see what the number is if things are down "significantly".


not a good look


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ehhh - as many have said, you can’t always go ‘what else is on’ - they need to compete with NBA and the rest

not like people were storming the capital


----------



## Chan Hung

Mister Sinister said:


> I'm calling it at 800k this week. They are on the decline and this week was awful. Next week might be lower. These cards are the worst I've seen in wrestling television since Doink and Nails were on tv.


Damn Doink and Nails, now that was some cringe tv! Holy shit lol Bad memories.


----------



## 3venflow

I'd be surprised if the demo drops much from last week like Meltzer is saying. Total viewership might, no idea. Wish Showbuzz would fix itself.


----------



## Savage Elbow

Nice of Uncle Dave getting out infront of it trying to set the narrative for another drop


----------



## Chan Hung

Savage Elbow said:


> Nice of Uncle Dave getting out infront of it trying to set the narrative for another drop


Seems like there's always a good excuse or something for a ratings drop except the blame itself on the product. lol Talk about good PR


----------



## El Hammerstone

Once the rest of the world shuts down to accommodate AEW, it's going to be smooth sailing from there.


----------



## GoldenEraWWFWCW

Always and excuse from Dave Meltzer and AEW loyalist when it comes to anything bad about AEW not surprised by his comments


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Nah but then when everything is shut down (except AEW), people think nothing is on TV (except AEW), and streaming services are shut down (except for AEW), there will still be those pesky things called books.

We need to burn all of them to ensure AEW reaches its true viewership potential.

Oh wait but then there’s “going outside” ... a tough one to handle. I guess we just need to barricade everyone inside their homes to solve that problem.


----------



## 3venflow

GoldenEraWWFWCW said:


> Always and excuse from Dave Meltzer and AEW loyalist when it comes to anything bad about AEW not surprised by his comments


Meltzer makes excuses for RAW and Smackdown too and commonly talks about how ratings will improve for them when football or NBA season is over.

Some people ought to read his newsletter and they might be surprised. But lazy stereotypes seem easier for some, kind of like 'AEW only has spotfests'.

Meltzer is more of a 'NJPW loyalist' than anything else since he rarely criticises them and focuses on the match quality, breaking his old 5* scale for them regularly. He's had plenty of criticism about AEW in recent months.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1395483091976683522


----------



## GoldenEraWWFWCW

3venflow said:


> Meltzer makes excuses for RAW and Smackdown too and commonly talks about how ratings will improve for them when football or NBA season is over.
> 
> Some people ought to read his newsletter and they might be surprised. But lazy stereotypes seem easier for some, kind of like 'AEW only has spotfests'.
> 
> Meltzer is more of a 'NJPW loyalist' than anything else since he rarely criticises them and focuses on the match quality, breaking his old 5* scale for them regularly. He's had plenty of criticism about AEW in recent months.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1395483091976683522


I don’t read nothing from him he’s a known AEW fan boy and New Japan mark and won’t try to spin it like Meltzer is not bias for both AEW when it’s true and there’s no narrative. Look at his bias awards for crying out loud. I know you are not that naive.


----------



## GoldenEraWWFWCW

Another thing how is it that NXT had a bump and AEW had a drop? Don’t use the playoff excuse as both had games on that night.


----------



## Hitman1987

What was last weeks rating?


----------



## the_hound

over 800 is still pretty good as for nxtl, it was just a slight increase.....nothing to write home about


----------



## 3venflow

GoldenEraWWFWCW said:


> I don’t read nothing from him he’s a known AEW fan boy and New Japan mark


So you don't read anything from him but know all about his biases. Meanwhile, I actually read the newsletter regularly and he's way less biased than people seem to think. He's less biased in his opinion stuff than well-known pundits like Russo and Cornette.



> Look at his bias awards for crying out loud.


His awards are voted on by readers, not selected by him. He doesn't even decide the nominees himself.

Meltzer talks about AEW a lot because he gets inside scoops from there all the time. But he's not above criticising them, on an edition of WOR in 2019 he tore them apart and said NXT had 'less garbage on its show'.

Here he is criticising their booking more recently.


----------



## GoldenEraWWFWCW

the_hound said:


> over 800 is still pretty good as for nxtl, it was just a slight increase.....nothing to write home about


One is the show of a main company and the other is a development brand not good at all


----------



## GoldenEraWWFWCW

3venflow said:


> So you don't read anything from him but know all about his biases. Meanwhile, I actually read the newsletter regularly and he's way less biased than people seem to think. He's less biased in his opinion stuff than well-known pundits like Russo and Cornette.
> 
> 
> 
> His awards are voted on by readers, not selected by him. He doesn't even decide the nominees himself.
> 
> Meltzer tralks about AEW a lot because he gets inside scoops from there all the time. But he's not above criticising them, on an edition of WOR in 2019 he tore them apart and said NXT had 'less garbage on its show'.
> 
> Here he is criticising their booking more recently.


well that sucks for you to even waste your time and money subscribing to him in the first place.


----------



## qntntgood

Hitman1987 said:


> What was last weeks rating?


It 930 something thousand,if I'm not mistaken.


----------



## Millennial

NXT got squashed this week, less than 700k lol. All the while AEW getting big money tv deals. The move to a new night has clearly failed for them so USA should boot them off the network now.


----------



## ProjectGargano

That wasn´t good, next week should drop even more because of the friday 10 pm slot. They must have a good ppv to secure good numbers after DoN until July, because when they begin touring the numbers should be up again.


----------



## Hitman1987

qntntgood said:


> It 930 something thousand,if I'm not mistaken.


936,000 according to AEW botches....I’m sure they’ll claw it back next week with Janela and Bononi on the show


----------



## GoldenEraWWFWCW

Millennial said:


> NXT got squashed this week, less than 700k lol. All the while AEW getting big money tv deals. The move to a new night has clearly failed for them so USA should boot them off the network now.


more delusional fan boy talk no wonder why they are not looking to get better when they can feed these type of fans anything.


----------



## DammitChrist

GoldenEraWWFWCW said:


> I don’t read nothing from him he’s a known AEW fan boy and New Japan mark and won’t try to spin it like Meltzer is not bias for both AEW when it’s true and there’s no narrative. Look at his bias awards for crying out loud. I know you are not that naive.


You're seriously going to be one of those folks who's offended over various wrestling fans voting for who they believe were most deserving to win those awards? :lol


----------



## ProjectGargano

It´s not an excuse and i already said it wasn´t good but they were against this:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1395483988677042183


----------



## yeahright2

qntntgood said:


> It 930 something thousand,if I'm not mistaken.


As the proprietor of the ratings game 

(shameless plug)
AEW Ratings prediction game

I can tell you it was 936K


----------



## Millennial

DammitChrist said:


> You're seriously going to be one of those folks who's offended over various wrestling fans voting for who they believe were most deserving to win those awards? :lol


Yes sad isn't it?


----------



## Dark Emperor

Poor numbers, no wonder the show is being moved to TBS.


----------



## DammitChrist

yeahright2 said:


> As the proprietor of the ratings game
> 
> (shameless plug)
> AEW Ratings prediction game
> 
> I can tell you it was 936K


Wait, is it seriously 936 K viewers for this week?

I was told on a different site about them getting 843 K viewers last night (which I would consider borderline average since I believe that they SHOULD avoid getting anywhere below 800-820 K viewers depending on the card).

IF it's 936 K viewers, then that's fairly solid; especially compared to what I thought the number was moments ago :lol


----------



## yeahright2

DammitChrist said:


> Wait, is it seriously 936 K viewers for this week?
> 
> I was told on a different site about them getting 843 K viewers last night (which I would consider borderline average since I believe that they SHOULD avoid getting anywhere below 800-820 K viewers depending on the card).
> 
> IF it's 936 K viewers, then that's fairly solid; especially compared to what I thought the number was moments ago :lol


No, that was LAST week.. I´m still waiting for this weeks rating.. Sorry for the confusion


----------



## DammitChrist

Oops, that's my bad. Confusion happens sometimes


----------



## GoldenEraWWFWCW

DammitChrist said:


> You're seriously going to be one of those folks who's offended over various wrestling fans voting for who they believe were most deserving to win those awards? :lol


Oh here come the ring leader of the AEW loyalists you and Meltzer run neck and neck for the biggest AEW nut rider.


----------



## GoldenEraWWFWCW

ProjectGargano said:


> It´s not an excuse and i already said it wasn´t good but they were against this:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1395483988677042183


no excuse when the time of AEW show and the Lakers/Warriors game didn’t have the same time slot. AEW is on at least where I’m at which started at 5pm and the Laker game started in ESPN at 7. If folks wanted to they could have watched the show before the game came on more fan boy excuses.


----------



## Dark Emperor

GoldenEraWWFWCW said:


> no excuse when the time of AEW show and the Lakers/Warriors game didn’t have the same time slot. AEW is on at least where I’m at which started at 5pm and the Laker game started in ESPN at 7. If folks wanted to they could have watched the show before the game came on more fan boy excuses.


Yep, kickoff for the big Lakers vs Warriors game as scheduled just as AEW was ending pretty much. 

But good of Dave Meltzer to get the excuse out quickly even before he reports the actual numbers. It's embarassing.


----------



## ProjectGargano

GoldenEraWWFWCW said:


> no excuse when the time of AEW show and the Lakers/Warriors game didn’t have the same time slot. AEW is on at least where I’m at which started at 5pm and the Laker game started in ESPN at 7. If folks wanted to they could have watched the show before the game came on more fan boy excuses.


In the West Coast Dynamite starts 3 hours later and run against the game.


----------



## TD Stinger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1395498493855166465


----------



## DammitChrist

GoldenEraWWFWCW said:


> Oh here come the ring leader of the AEW loyalists you and Meltzer run neck and neck for the biggest AEW nut rider.


I appreciate your poor attempt at making the rational folks look 'bad' with the silly hyperbole


----------



## Dr. Middy

I mean even if the NBA took some viewers, the number is still not good all things considered, and is a little worrying with their next show being on Friday night, which by all accounts probably won't do that well either.

Hopefully they built the PPV enough on the last show and this show though and will actually deliver a good ending so they get a lot of these viewers back for the summer.


----------



## KrysRaw1

so what is the official number and why are they delaying releasing the numbers were they scared of LOL


----------



## The XL 2

Niche product. Serious national promotions wouldn't even contemplate building their company around Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks. A shame because their is some decent talent on the roster, most of them underutilized because the indyreffic elite need 60% of the screen time.


----------



## yeahright2

KrysRaw1 said:


> so what is the official number and why are they delaying releasing the numbers were they scared of LOL


Ratings are in. We have a winner. Congratulations @Cube2 ! you had 830, the number was 821

AEW Ratings prediction game


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

GoldenEraWWFWCW said:


> I don’t read nothing from him he’s a known AEW fan boy and New Japan mark and won’t try to spin it like Meltzer is not bias for both AEW when it’s true and there’s no narrative. Look at his bias awards for crying out loud. I know you are not that naive.


Which awards? The one that WON subscribers and readers vote for, or the one that actual wrestlers/promoters/industry insiders vote for. Wasn't aware there were awards he decided by himself?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

TD Stinger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1395498493855166465


eeehhh.... not all bad i guess

not great either / but hardly a trainsmash - just middle of the road


----------



## GoldenEraWWFWCW

ProjectGargano said:


> In the West Coast Dynamite starts 3 hours later and run against the game.


not for all I have direct Tv and I live on the west coast and able to watch it at 5pm but it’s still not a major excuse at all


----------



## GoldenEraWWFWCW

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Which awards? The one that WON subscribers and readers vote for, or the one that actual wrestlers/promoters/industry insiders vote for. Wasn't aware there were awards he decided by himself?


its influenced by him as he’s a AEW loyalist/apologist and a huge New Japan strong style smark let’s not play dumb.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

GoldenEraWWFWCW said:


> its influenced by him as he’s a AEW loyalist/apologist and a huge New Japan strong style smark let’s not play dumb.


Influenced how, all he does is count the votes? Plenty of people win that he says he wouldn't have voted for.


----------



## KrysRaw1

Considering that this is very close to the pay-per-view and the next week it's not on the regular scheduled Wednesday add to the fact that they promoted pretty-much no good matches for this week I must say it's embarrassing and sad that their rating is about what they would normally have against another wrestling show this proves once again that the company is not on the right track to gaining viewership to knowing how to book and promote the right people


----------



## iarwain

Meh, they could have pulled 821k when they were running against NXT.


----------



## TD Stinger

The next few weeks will be interesting as AEW is going to be preempted 5 weeks in a row starting next week. The next 2 Dynamites will be on Friday at 10:00 pm.

And then for the 6/9, 6/16, and 6/23 episodes they'll have to move too but we don't know to what day yet.


----------



## Klitschko

Look, I praised them to hell and back when they got that 1.2 and 1.1 rating right after NXT switched nights, so it's only fair to say that this is in fact a shit rating.


----------



## Chrome

TD Stinger said:


> The next few weeks will be interesting as AEW is going to be preempted 5 weeks in a row starting next week. The next 2 Dynamites will be on Friday at 10:00 pm.
> 
> And then for the 6/9, 6/16, and 6/23 episodes they'll have to move too but we don't know to what day yet.


And that's why moving to TBS is a good thing....


----------



## GoldenEraWWFWCW

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Influenced how, all he does is count the votes? Plenty of people win that he says he wouldn't have voted for.


of course you will believe anything spewed and coming from Meltzer because he’s bias towards something you bias towards


----------



## Joe Gill

isnt tbs a much smaller and less watched station than tnt? aew has now lost 200k+ viewers since the jericho mattress fiasco. when they make the move to tbs they will likely be in the 500k range.


----------



## GoldenEraWWFWCW

Joe Gill said:


> isnt tbs a much smaller and less watched station than tnt? aew has now lost 200k+ viewers since the jericho mattress fiasco. when they make the move to tbs they will likely be in the 500k range.


it is they show a lot of reruns snd I remember all WCW b rated shows like Saturday night and Thunder was on TBS. Although TBS was the main home of WCW until the Monday night wars it’s still step back for AEW but on the bright side at least they were able to get more content out the deal.


----------



## MEMS

Millennial said:


> NXT got squashed this week, less than 700k lol. All the while AEW getting big money tv deals. The move to a new night has clearly failed for them so USA should boot them off the network now.


What the hell does this have to do with AEW ratings?


----------



## DaSlacker

Shame but the main event was Bucks vs Pillman Jr and Garrison. Elsewhere you had Christian vs Evan Bourne and a couple of squashes. Taking into account the old WWE style tropes (i.e dumb refs and aerosol in the face). It's actually surprising it manages the same viewership as TNA in 2014 in the same spot. 

What AEW is doing won't set the world on fire. It's harmless, forgettable, run of the mill wrestling.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

GoldenEraWWFWCW said:


> of course you will believe anything spewed and coming from Meltzer because he’s bias towards something you bias towards


What am I biased towards? I like AEW but only because it's interesting, if they weren't I wouldn't watch. I like NJPW's main-event scene, but there is a lot of undercard stuff I don't care for that Meltzer rates highly?

The votes are just the votes -- especially for the HoF there are lots of people in the industry that disagree with him. Do you think he's throwing out votes? Is it all rigged? He actually wanted to throw Benoit out of the HoF and put it to a vote and didn't get his way. Why wouldn't he have just thrown out those votes 🙄


----------



## GoldenEraWWFWCW

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> What am I biased towards? I like AEW but only because it's interesting, if they weren't I wouldn't watch. I like NJPW's main-event scene, but there is a lot of undercard stuff I don't care for that Meltzer rates highly?
> 
> The votes are just the votes -- especially for the HoF there are lots of people in the industry that disagree with him. Do you think he's throwing out votes? Is it all rigged? He actually wanted to throw Benoit out of the HoF and put it to a vote and didn't get his way. Why wouldn't he have just thrown out those votes 🙄


you’re just in denial if you think Meltzer is an honest guy when it comes to him pushing his narrative and influences. There is no need to further discuss or go back and forth with you. You already admitted being a huge AEW fan which is all fine but of course you will believe anything coming from him because he’s pushes what you enjoy to no end. The guy is a poison to the business.


----------



## DammitChrist

GoldenEraWWFWCW said:


> you’re just in denial if you think Meltzer is an honest guy when it comes to him pushing his narrative and influences. There is no need to further discuss or go back and forth with you. You already admitted being a huge AEW fan which is all fine but of course you will believe anything coming from him because he’s pushes what you enjoy to no end. The guy is a poison to the business.


Nah, the real guy who’s a true poison to the business is that angry old man with glasses who has his own megathread dedicated to spread around hatred regarding anything fun in wrestling. 

Guys like Dave Meltzer (and Bryan Alvarez) are far more reasonable for many folks to listen in comparison.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

GoldenEraWWFWCW said:


> you’re just in denial if you think Meltzer is an honest guy when it comes to him pushing his narrative and influences. There is no need to further discuss or go back and forth with you. You already admitted being a huge AEW fan which is all fine but of course you will believe anything coming from him because he’s pushes what you enjoy to no end. The guy is a poison to the business.


lol what's he pushing besides his own business? He covers WWE and praises them when they do good stuff and gives them shit when they don't, he comes up with "excuses" more realistically known as logical reasons for when they don't do good ratings. He does the same with AEW. 

"The guy is a poison to the business" fucking lol. 



GoldenEraWWFWCW said:


> I don’t read nothing from him


Sounds to me like you've never actually listened to anything he's actually said, so, like you said there's no reason to go back and forth. You've already exposed yourself for talking out of your ass.


----------



## thorn123

not a good rating ... the public just doesnt want to watch good wrestling.

side note - i never heard of dave metzler until WF. I have never heard or read anything by him, yet I like AEW


----------



## La Parka

The card was terrible. Somehow it appears to be even worse next week. 

Imagine seeing Lakers and Warriors and saying to yourself “let’s match that with the young bucks and the varsity blondes!”

AEW desperately needs someone who knows how to format a wrestling show and someone who knows how to book one. There’s a middle ground between blood and guts and velocity.


----------



## Dizzie

At what point does khan admit to himself that he isn't a good booker at all and needs a real pro in charge or will he continue to act like a spoilt rich brat with an attitude of this is my toy, nobody else is allowed to play with it.


----------



## DammitChrist

Dizzie said:


> At what point does khan admit to himself that he isn't a good booker at all and needs a real pro in charge or will he continue to act like a spoilt rich brat with an attitude of this is my toy, nobody else is allowed to play with it.


Considering how entertaining the product has been for a good while now, I don’t think he needs to admit anything here; especially over something that just isn’t true.


----------



## thorn123

DammitChrist said:


> Considering how entertaining the product has been for a good while now, I don’t think he needs to admit anything here; especially over something that just isn’t true.


I totally believe its the malaise and unrealistic expectations in fans that effects viewership rather than so called "poor" booking.


----------



## Kishido

What is the excuse this time?


----------



## One Shed

Kishido said:


> What is the excuse this time?


Other stuff was also airing.


----------



## La Parka

Kishido said:


> What is the excuse this time?


everyone was watching see no evil to celebrate may 19th.


----------



## .christopher.

DaveRA said:


> I totally believe its the malaise and unrealistic expectations in fans that effects viewership rather than so called "poor" booking.


"Unrealistic expectations" ? Such as?


----------



## One Shed

.christopher. said:


> "Unrealistic expectations" ? Such as?


That they would hire competent professionals with experience on how to book a show. What is that? QT thinks show formatting sounds fun? Put him in charge of it! That short, tubby guy who looks like Pippy Longstocking had a botched face-lift? Talent scout!


----------



## The Wood

Oof at 821k.

They haven’t settled yet. Looks like the unopposed audience for this might be about the same as the opposed audience.


----------



## Wolf Mark

I'm always shocked by how low they get. I thought with the NXT departure they would range into the 1.2 million - 900 thousand for the future, at least going into the summer but it already has fallen to 821! Even the AEW haters are like "wait a minute, I don't like these guys but this is scary". The fall is way too rapid. Never seen anything like it in any promotion before(other than when TNA tried to go on Monday Nights)

I wanted to make a bet with the other guy that they'll get back to 685 if they don't fix their problems, and it's happening folks. 

Tony, *GET A REAL BOOKER*, son. Quickly. 

If it were me I would reevaluate the whole roster, take all storylines down, split all the groups apart, re-think the whole thing. Redefine the roles. No more utter shit being created out of nowhere like "oh look I'm Cody, I'm the All American Hero now".


----------



## thorn123

.christopher. said:


> "Unrealistic expectations" ? Such as?


trying to replicate the hyperbolic greatness fans experiences in their formative years


----------



## The Wood

DaveRA said:


> trying to replicate the hyperbolic greatness fans experiences in their formative years


There was a lot of old shit that was terrible, and people remember it as horrible. Like 2000 WCW, which AEW tries to replicate. And there’s a lot of shit people remember as good, because it was actually good.


----------



## thorn123

The Wood said:


> There was a lot of old shit that was terrible, and people remember it as horrible. Like 2000 WCW, which AEW tries to replicate. And there’s a lot of shit people remember as good, because it was actually good.


AEW is not trying to do that


----------



## La Parka

DaveRA said:


> trying to replicate the hyperbolic greatness fans experiences in their formative years


This is a great description of Tony khan, ironically.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

The Wood said:


> There was a lot of old shit that was terrible, and people remember it as horrible. Like 2000 WCW, which AEW tries to replicate. And there’s a lot of shit people remember as good, because it was actually good.


As the resident expert on WCW 2000, AEW is nothing like it. They're more akin to 2012 TNA but with less bullshit finishes and longer matches.


----------



## thorn123

La Parka said:


> This is a great description of Tony khan, ironica


haha ... i will take anything


----------



## Wolf Mark

kennykiller12 said:


> As the resident expert on WCW 2000, AEW is nothing like it. They're more akin to 2012 TNA but with less bullshit finishes and longer matches.


They are not close to TNA 2012. The first half of TNA 2012 was probably the best thing TNA has ever done. There was no bullshit, no chaos, it was all about Bobby Roode's championship run and it was flawless booking. Then they introduced Aces & Eights in the summer around Sting's Hall of Fame induction. And at the beginning at least, that group was interesting. AEW has no storylines that are this captivating.


----------



## DammitChrist

Wolf Mark said:


> They are not close to TNA 2012. The first half of TNA 2012 was probably the best thing TNA has ever done. There was no bullshit, no chaos, it was all about Bobby Roode's championship run and it was flawless booking. Then they introduced Aces & Eights in the summer around Sting's Hall of Fame induction. And at the beginning at least, that group was interesting. AEW has no storylines that are this captivating.


Kenny Omega's title collector storyline (where he also takes over the show with Don Callis and the Elite) is captivating.


----------



## thorn123

Wolf Mark said:


> They are not close to TNA 2012. The first half of TNA 2012 was probably the best thing TNA has ever done. There was no bullshit, no chaos, it was all about Bobby Roode's championship run and it was flawless booking. Then they introduced Aces & Eights in the summer around Sting's Hall of Fame induction. And at the beginning at least, that group was interesting. AEW has no storylines that are this captivating.


Big fan of TNA prime. I spent a lot of time watching the one hour adrenalin rush prior to Sting, and I rate TNA prime > AEW, but I still enjoy AEW whilst recognizing there is room for improvement.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Wolf Mark said:


> They are not close to TNA 2012. The first half of TNA 2012 was probably the best thing TNA has ever done. There was no bullshit, no chaos, it was all about Bobby Roode's championship run and it was flawless booking. Then they introduced Aces & Eights in the summer around Sting's Hall of Fame induction. And at the beginning at least, that group was interesting. AEW has no storylines that are this captivating.


The late 2000s-early 2010s are all one big blur to me . I guess it's all subjective but I still remember plenty of chaos during that period in TNA. I had to look it up, but Claire Lynch was in the beginning of that year so. I think AEW is pretty inoffensive most times myself but I was more of a TNA fan then than I am an AEW fan now if that makes sense. I'm kind of in the middle about AEW. I think there's lots of room for improvement but it's still a modern wrestling show I enjoy for the most part like I did TNA then.





Bobby Roode was awesome though. Still one of my favorite wrestling themes. At least he's making that WWE money I guess.


----------



## Wolf Mark

kennykiller12 said:


> The late 2000s-early 2010s are all one big blur to me . I guess it's all subjective but I still remember plenty of chaos during that period in TNA. I had to look it up, but Claire Lynch was in the beginning of that year so. I think AEW is pretty inoffensive most times myself but I was more of a TNA fan then than I am an AEW fan now if that makes sense. I'm kind of in the middle about AEW. I think there's lots of room for improvement but it's still a modern wrestling show I enjoy for the most part like I did TNA then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bobby Roode was awesome though. Still one of my favorite wrestling themes. At least he's making that WWE money I guess.


That's a guy I would like to see in AEW if they booked him correctly. Like the jerk he is meant to be and raising Hell. Although I miss his long hair.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Wolf Mark said:


> That's a guy I would like to see in AEW if they booked him correctly. Like the jerk he is meant to be and raising Hell. Although I miss his long hair.


I just want them back....Honestly can't believe James Storm isn't in AEW yet. Yeah he's older but he's a veteran and an awesome mic worker. I'd rather see him and Page together than Page and the Dark Order lol


----------



## The Wood

Bobby Roode is having a heck of a career now. He is getting to team with one of the more talented guys of the modern era and just got to work with Rey Mysterio and help put over his son.

Believe it or not, that beats being the top singles star in a promotion watched by a fraction of those fans.


----------



## VIP86

from 1.219 to 820 that's 400,000 loss
too bad the new viewers didn't find anything interesting


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

La Parka said:


> The card was terrible. Somehow it appears to be even worse next week.
> 
> Imagine seeing Lakers and Warriors and saying to yourself “let’s match that with the young bucks and the varsity blondes!”
> 
> AEW desperately needs someone who knows how to format a wrestling show and someone who knows how to book one. There’s a middle ground between blood and guts and velocity.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1395524191051419648
*The game started like 20 minutes after Dynamite ended because Spurs vs Grizzlies ran late. Anyone using that as an excuse is completely full of shit. They lost their entire unopposed wrestling fanbase in under a month. 375,000 people with nothing else to watch decided this show isn't worth watching without a major attraction.*


----------



## validreasoning

DammitChrist said:


> Kenny Omega's title collector storyline (where he also takes over the show with Don Callis and the Elite) is captivating.


That's not a storyline on AEW tv though. On TV Dynamite at least Omega is a goofy heel that needs Callis and others help to win matches. He had been feuding with Moxley since November then two weeks ago switched to Orange Cassidy.

There is no mention or build to other promotion matches on Dynamite.


Wolf Mark said:


> They are not close to TNA 2012. The first half of TNA 2012 was probably the best thing TNA has ever done. There was no bullshit, no chaos, it was all about Bobby Roode's championship run and it was flawless booking. Then they introduced Aces & Eights in the summer around Sting's Hall of Fame induction. And at the beginning at least, that group was interesting. AEW has no storylines that are this captivating.


Still stupid shit though. We attended the tv tapings right after Wrestlemania 28 and it featured Garrett Bischoff as team captain and a wedding where Eric Young and ODB got married and stripped down to their underwear

I will agree that was probably best TNA were though. They had alot momentum behind Roode and Storm and few months later Aries (whom they did fine job putting over for that title win and making it feel like a big deal).

All went to shit with Aces and Eights


----------



## Dizzie

DammitChrist said:


> Considering how entertaining the product has been for a good while now, I don’t think he needs to admit anything here; especially over something that just isn’t true.


Well there are a lot of fans that would disagree with this notion seeing as they have lost almost 400k fans since the initial bump they saw of nxt moving to tuesdays, there are tna fans out there that will also tell ya that their product is really entertaining but viewership will tell you otherwise.

I ain't someone that knocks everything aew does, there is good stuff and they have a lot of good talent but it is let down by poor booking/creativity, I'm not expecting a modern day version of attitude/nwo era but the product isn't even better than prime tna.


----------



## Cooper09

It didn't take long for new viewers that guys like Cody and Young Buck who are pushed as megastars are just a bunch of geeks


----------



## The Wood

I think AEW fell right into the classic hot-shotting trap. Is there anything they can actually do to make the product _more_ exciting now? They give away everything for free. What? Is Kenny Omega vs. Christian Cage going to put any more asses in the seats than Omega vs. PAC vs. OC? This shit has overloaded and now it’s got no way to shift into different gears. It almost has to go dark to let people forget about where it’s been.

Someone is sitting in their office thinking “Marathon not a sprint,” and I hate that they’re probably right about that.


----------



## Hitman1987

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1395524191051419648
> *The game started like 20 minutes after Dynamite ended because Spurs vs Grizzlies ran late. Anyone using that as an excuse is completely full of shit. They lost their entire unopposed wrestling fanbase in under a month. 375,000 people with nothing else to watch decided this show isn't worth watching without a major attraction.*


“Stop proving Meltzer’s excuses wrong”


----------



## Kishido

Hitman1987 said:


> “Stop proving Meltzer’s excuses wrong”
> 
> View attachment 101501


yeah Meltzer full of shit... But wasn't NXT "against" the Playoffs as well and no one has said a damn about it?


----------



## yeahright2

The Wood said:


> Bobby Roode is having a heck of a career now. He is getting to team with one of the more talented guys of the modern era and just got to work with Rey Mysterio and help put over his son.
> 
> Believe it or not, that beats being the top singles star in a promotion watched by a fraction of those fans.


Bobby Roode is also one of the very few wrestlers who enjoy the busy WWE schedule..
I´m sure he can´t wait to get on the road again.


----------



## Han Popo

So many excuses already.


----------



## Ger

I am kinda shocked about the new number, hopefully the drop is over now. Looking back, I was unrealistic about the ratings, when AEW got the spot for its own. AEW Dynamite needs to fix his own problems ASAP, there are no excuses anymore and WWE cannot become worse (yeap, one should be cautious with that).


----------



## Jay Trotter

No real surprise. Fully excepted. Saw it coming a mile away. TK needs to stop this filler show nonsense in these paper thin cards every so often, with two hours of mid card jobbers and curtain jerkers all over the place. Look, I know he wants to give everyone a turn to be featured on this bloated roster, but you can't put forth a phoned in lineup either. He has a bad habit of repeating this trend by making it "feel" like a throwaway episode ahead of time. There was nothing on this card that would've drawn flies to crap. It's also horrible timing to put forth such a beyond underwelming lineup in your last week before a major scheduling uproar. Your last impression to sell your PPV on your regular night and timeslot with more Dark mainstays than Dynamite mainstays. Really love AEW. But this must stop.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Kishido said:


> yeah Meltzer full of shit... But wasn't NXT "against" the Playoffs as well and no one has said a damn about it?


*Because this is the AEW rating thread and they're no longer head to head, so it's irrelevant. That show sucks too because they have no good storylines and their male roster is incredibly boring. Now what? Does that make AEW's failures any less embarrassing? No.*


----------



## Klitschko

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Because this is the AEW rating thread and they're no longer head to head, so it's irrelevant. That show sucks too because they have no good storylines and their male roster is incredibly boring. Now what? Does that make AEW's failures any less embarrassing? No.*


It's like saying "officer, I know I went 30 over the speed limit, but the guy in front of me was going at least 35 over".


----------



## holy

The Wood said:


> Bobby Roode is having a heck of a career now. He is getting to team with one of the more talented guys of the modern era and just got to work with Rey Mysterio and help put over his son.
> 
> Believe it or not, that beats being the top singles star in a promotion watched by a fraction of those fans.


I honestly had no idea Bobby Roode was TNA World champ in 2012 till I read about it recently. I just remember him as the dude in that Beer Money stable in the 2000s. 

I def stopped watching TNA sometime around 2011 onwards.


----------



## 3venflow

Dynamite's opener of Christian vs. Sydal drew 839,000 viewers and 390,000 in the 18-49. It was the peak in both the key 18-49 demo and 18-49 women.

Shida vs. Reba did the best quarter hour for males in the 18-49 demographic (367,000) and added 30,000 total viewers for a total of 836,000.

Peak quarter hour for total viewers was Q5 with the Inner Circle promo and most of Red Velvet/Serena. 855,000 total viewers with 361,000 in the 18-49 demo.

Biggest gain of the show was the Bucks vs. Blonds main event, which brought back 90,000 viewers for a total of 848,000 and 362,000 (+25,000) in the 18-49.


----------



## TD Stinger




----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

TD Stinger said:


>


*Good to see the women were the peak of the show (again). That was a fantastic match that deserved all the attention.*


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Will be very interesting to see if Rampage beats Dynamite in the ratings sometimes. I think the slot is good if they spend money and strategically advertise on Smackdown.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

TKO Wrestling said:


> Will be very interesting to see if Rampage beats Dynamite in the ratings sometimes. I think the slot is good if they spend money and strategically advertise on Smackdown.


*If I'm Vince, I'm definitely taking Tony's money because he's not competition and his show comes after mine anyway.*


----------



## yeahright2

Moxley/Kingston vs Acclaimed lost them a lot of viewers.. There´s a surprise /sarcasm


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

yeahright2 said:


> Moxley/Kingston vs Acclaimed lost them a lot of viewers.. There´s a surprise /sarcasm


*Miro being the absolute worst is the biggest non surprise. They shouldn't have waited 8 months to do this. Even the hardcores don't care anymore.*


----------



## Alright_Mate

Only just seen the rating, shows how much I cared for this weeks show 

Unsurprising rating...again.

Everything @La Parka was spot on, terrible card = bang average rating.

As I’ve said so many times, they have zero clue when it comes to consistency, they produce shit cards far too often, because they don’t like doing rematches.


----------



## DammitChrist

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Good to see the women were the peak of the show (again). That was a fantastic match that deserved all the attention.*


The Young Bucks main-event with the Varsity Blondes ended up having the biggest gain on the show though. I could've sworn that they were "absolute geeks that nobody wants to watch though" 😂

NXT is still a good show btw (just like Dynamite, which will inevitably continue to get 900 K viewers through a million+ viewers proving you wrong about them "losing" their audience).


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Q7 was the bottom by a lot last week as well. Don’t know about weeks before that. They barely advertised Miro’s promo and I almost missed it.

That said, again while down a lot it was mostly a consistent show quarterly. Just Q7 seemed to be the killer both weeks.


----------



## DammitChrist

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Q7 was the bottom by a lot last week as well. Don’t know about weeks before that. They barely advertised Miro’s promo and I almost missed it.
> 
> That said, again while down a lot it was mostly a consistent show quarterly. Just Q7 seemed to be the killer both weeks.


Honestly, I think Q7 is the only portion of the show that struggles more with viewers, and I think it's the only "filler" slot on Dynamite.


----------



## Kishido

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Because this is the AEW rating thread and they're no longer head to head, so it's irrelevant. That show sucks too because they have no good storylines and their male roster is incredibly boring. Now what? Does that make AEW's failures any less embarrassing? No.*


Both are shit. I agree... But I am calling out Meltzer for defending one going against NBA, which wasn't the case, but not the other 
Same for other media platforms


----------



## The Wood

Living and dying by gains of 30k or whatever is pretty silly, but just to play:

The hours seemed to get the most people in, then they’d drop as the show sucked. Q2, Q3, Q6 and Q7 were death and it doesn’t matter who they put in them. No one is special in AEW anymore.

But yes, that apparent drop for Miro is undeniable. He’s fucked himself and proven himself to be a joke.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Checked back, and 60k loss for Q7 vs 100k loss last week. Not good for this week, but when Miro has another advertised title match on Dynamite (besides the obvious squash next week), we’ll see how that does. Particularly if it’s the main event.

Noticed though the highest quarter from this week didn’t beat lowest from last week. That’s kinda bad.


----------



## DaSlacker

Alright_Mate said:


> Only just seen the rating, shows how much I cared for this weeks show
> 
> Unsurprising rating...again.
> 
> Everything @La Parka was spot on, terrible card = bang average rating.
> 
> As I’ve said so many times, they have zero clue when it comes to consistency, they produce shit cards far too often, because they don’t like doing rematches.


The no DQs and no count outs and few rematches concept is really starting to bite. I know TK likes New Japan and in his mind wants to give original cards with a finish. But the pro wrestling rules weren't broke, so why try to fix them.


----------



## TD Stinger

DaSlacker said:


> The no DQs and no count outs and few rematches concept is really starting to bite. I know TK likes New Japan and in his mind wants to give original cards with a finish. But the pro wrestling rules weren't broke, so why try to fix them.


I don't think it's so much of a NJPW thing as it is a WWE thing.

And what I mean is that AEW structures their show trying to avoid WWE's worse habits. One of those bad habits WWE has is doing weekly DQ finishes, even multiple during one show. And for fans who grew tired of that, AEW is a place where you hardly if ever see them.

So I do get the idea behind what they're doing, even if every once in awhile they could have a DQ finish and it wouldn't hurt much, I believe.


----------



## The Wood

TD Stinger said:


> I don't think it's so much of a NJPW thing as it is a WWE thing.
> 
> And what I mean is that AEW structures their show trying to avoid WWE's worse habits. One of those bad habits WWE has is doing weekly DQ finishes, even multiple during one show. And for fans who grew tired of that, AEW is a place where you hardly if ever see them.
> 
> So I do get the idea behind what they're doing, even if every once in awhile they could have a DQ finish and it wouldn't hurt much, I believe.


They go too far for too few fans. Most people just want a good story. And no, that doesn’t mean “bullshit.” It means the right ending to the right length match.

Guys all work the same too. Doesn’t distinguish them or styles, and the psychology between their TV matches and PPV matches is exactly the same. Disinterests you from seeing guys work in different contexts.


----------



## VIP86

who could have thought that presenting Miro "the monster" in a mickey mouse shirt
and make him feud with irrelevant boring Geeks over video Games for months and months
will make the audience not care about him

kind of surprising really, since they have "The Booker of the Year"


----------



## Klitschko

My biggest personal heartbreak from AEW has been how they have used Sting. I don't really know what I expected, but I damn near creamed myself when he debuted. Now though, I don't even check his segments on you tube. Such a shame.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

TD Stinger said:


>


the bucks clawing back the numbers

its good to be Elite


----------



## holy

Klitschko said:


> My biggest personal heartbreak from AEW has been how they have used Sting. I don't really know what I expected, but I damn near creamed myself when he debuted. Now though, I don't even check his segments on you tube. Such a shame.


Same can be said about Christian. Even ignoring the ridiculous over-hype for his debut, they did that tease shortly after for a match against Omega. Seemed like it would be the DON main event. 

Now, Christian is doing meaningless matches every other week, and has no real fued to speak of.


----------



## Chan Hung

holy said:


> Same can be said about Christian. Even ignoring the ridiculous over-hype for his debut, they did that tease shortly after for a match against Omega. Seemed like it would be the DON main event.
> 
> Now, Christian is doing meaningless matches every other week, and has no real fued to speak of.


Wasn't he supposed to take on Starks?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

TD Stinger said:


> I don't think it's so much of a NJPW thing as it is a WWE thing.
> 
> And what I mean is that AEW structures their show trying to avoid WWE's worse habits. One of those bad habits WWE has is doing weekly DQ finishes, even multiple during one show. And for fans who grew tired of that, AEW is a place where you hardly if ever see them.
> 
> So I do get the idea behind what they're doing, even if every once in awhile they could have a DQ finish and it wouldn't hurt much, I believe.


*But what they're doing is equally, if not more damaging. They're burying the referees because we've been told and shown countless times that they don't fucking matter since no one is ever getting disqualified. You might as well have the hot dog vendor count the three since rules aren't being enforced.*


----------



## holy

Chan Hung said:


> Wasn't he supposed to take on Starks?


No idea. I just remember on his first Dynamtie appearance, they teased that confrontation with Omega.

I mean, even if you aren't gonna deliver the match right away and just wanna tease it, that's okay. But atleast set Christian on the path for that match, not just some filler matches with the likes of Matt Sydal. 

Does he even have a match at DON?


----------



## Klitschko

holy said:


> No idea. I just remember on his first Dynamtie appearance, they teased that confrontation with Omega.
> 
> I mean, even if you aren't gonna deliver the match right away and just wanna tease it, that's okay. But atleast set Christian on the path for that match, not just some filler matches with the likes of Matt Sydal.
> 
> Does he even have a match at DON?


They might add some last minute tag match against Team Tazz or something, but as of now he's not booked.


----------



## 3venflow

Christian is in the Casino Battle Royale. Him or Jungle Boy are my current favourites to win it and get a title shot. Unless the joker is someone important. They planted the seed for a Christian vs. Omega match right away but he's had to work his way up from scratch. This gives them the chance to fast track it a little.


----------



## holy

Klitschko said:


> They might add some last minute tag match against Team Tazz or something, but as of now he's not booked.


Oh actually I was just reading, apparently he's booked for the Casino battle royal.

But that's exactly my point: for someone who they hyped up as such a big acquisition, we shouldn't be using a magnifying glass to find his name on the card 🤣


----------



## CovidFan

Kishido said:


> Both are shit. I agree... But I am calling out Meltzer for defending one going against NBA, which wasn't the case, but not the other
> Same for other media platforms


Except he did...

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1395500735027027969
Him and Bryan on the post RAW show also mentioned how numbers for WWE and AEW will be down for a bit because of NBA and then again soon after for the olympics.


----------



## The Wood

I cannot believe that Christian is in their version of the Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal not even one PPV deep. If this were ANY other promotion in history, this would not get the pass it is getting from Meltzer and his kin.


----------



## Klitschko

The Wood said:


> I cannot believe that Christian is in their version of the Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal not even one PPV deep. If this were ANY other promotion in history, this would not get the pass it is getting from Meltzer and his kin.


Of course this shit wouldn't get a pass anywhere else.


----------



## Wolf Mark

The Wood said:


> Bobby Roode is having a heck of a career now. He is getting to team with one of the more talented guys of the modern era and just got to work with Rey Mysterio and help put over his son.
> 
> Believe it or not, that beats being the top singles star in a promotion watched by a fraction of those fans.


He's never been really given a chance in the WWE to shine and be the great dominant heel that he is so good at playing. It's like when Bully went back to the WWE and they only wanted him to be a tag team wrestler. It's a shame when guys have so much more to offer and promotions are not interested. Like in the case of Vince because he's too stubborn. Bruce Pritchard is one of the guys there and he was responsible for the Roode push in TNA, one would think he would make a case for him. I know Roode is helping kids but I want to see him shine again in singles one more time before he calls it quit.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> I cannot believe that Christian is in their version of the Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal not even one PPV deep. If this were ANY other promotion in history, this would not get the pass it is getting from Meltzer and his kin.


This "Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal" is for a future world title shot though.

It actually HAS stakes going for it.

This Battle Royal is basically a mini-Royal Rumble match, and either Christian Cage or Jungle Boy are the current favorites to win that world title shot.


----------



## Wolf Mark

The Wood said:


> I think AEW fell right into the classic hot-shotting trap. Is there anything they can actually do to make the product _more_ exciting now? They give away everything for free. What? Is Kenny Omega vs. Christian Cage going to put any more asses in the seats than Omega vs. PAC vs. OC? This shit has overloaded and now it’s got no way to shift into different gears. It almost has to go dark to let people forget about where it’s been.
> 
> Someone is sitting in their office thinking “Marathon not a sprint,” and I hate that they’re probably right about that.


Yep pretty much. They are hot shotting everything and it kills the interest of wanting to see what's next week. Same problems with the long matches they do every week. Why be excited with important matches when they are not gonna be different from any other matches.


----------



## The Wood

Wolf Mark said:


> He's never been really given a chance in the WWE to shine and be the great dominant heel that he is so good at playing. It's like when Bully went back to the WWE and they only wanted him to be a tag team wrestler. It's a shame when guys have so much more to offer and promotions are not interested. Like in the case of Vince because he's too stubborn. Bruce Pritchard is one of the guys there and he was responsible for the Roode push in TNA, one would think he would make a case for him. I know Roode is helping kids but I want to see him shine again in singles one more time before he calls it quit.


I have to respectfully disagree here. Roode is a great talent, but he’s an older guy and is a lot smaller on the WWE roster than he was in the small pond of TNA. He’s having a really reputable career. I mean, in kayfabe he’s a former US, Raw Tag, SmackDown Tag and NXT Champion. He’s wrestled Randy Orton at WrestleMania. He’s more of a player/coach than an actual player, but I don’t think business is turning around just because Roode has got the actual talent to do fine in a certain spot. I think he’s used better in the spot he’s in.

I understand from a fan perspective if you just want to see it though. But the dude is not getting shat on like some anti-WWE sentiments would have you believe. I’m sure he understands and appreciates his place. And I can definitely see something like him and Ziggler becoming top heel lackeys for a heel act down the line. Could see him get the occasional main event here and there. In the end, he could have a WWE Hall of Fame career (I stress _WWE Hall of Fame_).

Bully Ray was always such the right thing for TNA without it really fitting the WWE, in my opinion. You already had Kevin Owens running around. Samoa Joe was in the wings. I just don’t think the greater wrestling world was hungry for angry singles Bubba Ray Dudley even if it was awesome in TNA. 



DammitChrist said:


> This "Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal" is for a future world title shot though.
> 
> It actually HAS stakes going for it.
> 
> This Battle Royal is basically a mini-Royal Rumble match, and either Christian Cage or Jungle Boy are the current favorites to win that world title shot.


So if the Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal was for a title shot it would suddenly be good? This is kind of a markish perspective. The Royal Rumble is a concept that works (although even it has been spotty in years), because it could be promoted as the main gimmick on a show. The stakes evolved out of that. You can’t just do a Reverse Battle Royal, slap a World Title shot on it and say they are comparable. No, this is a pre-show clusterfuck that they gimmick with a title shot because there are still fans who will project meaning onto that. And people say that kayfabe is dead.


----------



## Aedubya

Is that Cult Cobana bottom left?


----------



## Wolf Mark

holy said:


> I honestly had no idea Bobby Roode was TNA World champ in 2012 till I read about it recently. I just remember him as the dude in that Beer Money stable in the 2000s.
> 
> I def stopped watching TNA sometime around 2011 onwards.


I don't know how I "survived" 2011 TNA either but somehow I continued on and it got better by the end of 2011 when Roode won the belt. As a fan of Roode from way back in Team Canada, it was awesome to see a talent being given the chance and realise his potential. And for the first time in history, TNA cut the bullshit out, esp. around him. He was a ruthless HHH-like heel Champ and most of his matches were great. Every week the show focused on him and how various authority figures were trying to control him. And put some rules into places to punish him because he was ready to do anything to keep the belt. He really was the "Leader of the Selfish generation". He even spit in the face of Dixie Carter on live TV, it was brilliant. And his main adversary was his former friend James Storm. Roode was eventualy defeated clean by Austin Aries in a great match. Although in my opinion, it was a mistake. Cause I feel that it's Storm that should have take it back from him at Bound for Glory.


----------



## La Parka

Find you a girl that looks at you the way dc looks at aew.


----------



## Wolf Mark

The Wood said:


> I have to respectfully disagree here. Roode is a great talent, but he’s an older guy and is a lot smaller on the WWE roster than he was in the small pond of TNA. He’s having a really reputable career. I mean, in kayfabe he’s a former US, Raw Tag, SmackDown Tag and NXT Champion. He’s wrestled Randy Orton at WrestleMania. He’s more of a player/coach than an actual player, but I don’t think business is turning around just because Roode has got the actual talent to do fine in a certain spot. I think he’s used better in the spot he’s in.
> 
> I understand from a fan perspective if you just want to see it though. But the dude is not getting shat on like some anti-WWE sentiments would have you believe. I’m sure he understands and appreciates his place. And I can definitely see something like him and Ziggler becoming top heel lackeys for a heel act down the line. Could see him get the occasional main event here and there. In the end, he could have a WWE Hall of Fame career (I stress _WWE Hall of Fame_).


Not saying WWE has not treated him well. But he had much more to offer than what they gave him to do. Because we have seen it! We know what he can do. Around the time he joined the main WWE roster from NXT with his Glorious theme, there was really no reasons for them them to not push him to the moon from that point. He had everything from the look, entrance, the skills, the character, everything was there for him to take off. He could have been even bigger than he was in TNA but it never happened. And I realised it would never work when he came in as a babyface. Again, Vince was not getting it. Just like when they brought in Steiner and had him as a face even though his whole appeal was being this monster heel. 



> Bully Ray was always such the right thing for TNA without it really fitting the WWE, in my opinion. You already had Kevin Owens running around. Samoa Joe was in the wings. I just don’t think the greater wrestling world was hungry for angry singles Bubba Ray Dudley even if it was awesome in TNA.


We will never know really. Cause they never tried it, that's the thing. Vince should give guys the benefit of the doubt.If it doesn't work out fine, but let them try it. Bully said he kept arguing with Vince about using Bully. The first reason Vince gave him was he could not use the character cause a guy named "Bully" would put them in trouble with some people they were in deals with! lol Then why not use another name.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__
http://instagr.am/p/CPIy5W3LRVk/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Alright_Mate

DaSlacker said:


> The no DQs and no count outs and few rematches concept is really starting to bite. I know TK likes New Japan and in his mind wants to give original cards with a finish. But the pro wrestling rules weren't broke, so why try to fix them.


No DQs and no count outs is fine by me. As Stinger said, it’s very much a bad habit of WWE, which unsurprisingly leads to fans complaining, because it‘s a big part of spoiling the shows.

Few rematches though is a ridiculous way to go about things, it’s starting to spoil AEW’s weekly product, because it’s reached the point where they’re feeding us too many pointless matches.

Moxley & Kingston vs The Acclaimed, Shida vs Rebel, Young Bucks vs Varsity Blondes, why should anyone care about match ups like that.

They are basically putting AEW Dark type matches onto their main show, it’s garbage and it’s no surprise to see them posting average ratings...again.


----------



## RapShepard

Klitschko said:


> My biggest personal heartbreak from AEW has been how they have used Sting. I don't really know what I expected, but I damn near creamed myself when he debuted. Now though, I don't even check his segments on you tube. Such a shame.


Man is 61 there was now way this run was going to be good outside of "yay he's not in WWE". He's too old to actually work real matches so he's stuck on the sidelines until they can justify an ultra safe match with midcarders with little momentum every few months.


----------



## RainmakerV2

The era in which 10 million people would tune into RAW had DQs out the ass. Its not a real right. As long as stories are being progessed and the characters are intriguing, people will stick around. Whats the overarching story on AEW for people to tune in?

The belt collector? Weve been at this how long and he has what, 2 titles from Impact (1 which is legitimately worthless) that his lackey carries around? And now they have to scramble together a lame triple threat because they haven't built anyone up besides Mox?

Weve already seen the payoff for IC vs. Pinnacle. Blood and guts with MJFs big moment IS the payoff. Who the fuck cares about stadium stampede or these guys pouring wine on each other? 

Sting and Darby go from Team Tazz and the TNT title to Scorpio Sky and Ethan Page? Lol. 

Baker finally getting the belt is a welcome change but Shida has sucked the life out of that division dry.

As much as I hate the Young Cucks, their turn has probably been the most consistently booked thing on the show.


----------



## Extremelyunderrated

What a terrible rating


----------



## DammitChrist

Extremelyunderrated said:


> What a terrible rating


It’s really an average (and fine) rating in all honesty.


----------



## The Wood

RainmakerV2 said:


> The era in which 10 million people would tune into RAW had DQs out the ass. Its not a real right. As long as stories are being progessed and the characters are intriguing, people will stick around. Whats the overarching story on AEW for people to tune in?
> 
> The belt collector? Weve been at this how long and he has what, 2 titles from Impact (1 which is legitimately worthless) that his lackey carries around? And now they have to scramble together a lame triple threat because they haven't built anyone up besides Mox?
> 
> Weve already seen the payoff for IC vs. Pinnacle. Blood and guts with MJFs big moment IS the payoff. Who the fuck cares about stadium stampede or these guys pouring wine on each other?
> 
> Sting and Darby go from Team Tazz and the TNT title to Scorpio Sky and Ethan Page? Lol.
> 
> Baker finally getting the belt is a welcome change but Shida has sucked the life out of that division dry.
> 
> As much as I hate the Young Cucks, their turn has probably been the most consistently booked thing on the show.


I just don’t get why people are so against DQs and countouts, lol. It’s another one of those things that just seems markish to me. You’re buying into this narrative that the pin is the story and disregarding the story for that.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> I just don’t get why people are so against DQs and countouts, lol. It’s another one of those things that just seems markish to me. You’re buying into this narrative that the pin is the story and disregarding the story for that.


There doesn’t need to be many DQs and count-outs though.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> There doesn’t need to be many DQs and count-outs though.


No one is saying that.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> No one is saying that.


I guess we should stick with the usual lack of DQs and count-outs then


----------



## BroncoBuster3

DammitChrist said:


> Considering how entertaining the product has been for a good while now, I don’t think he needs to admit anything here; especially over something that just isn’t true.


I have to ask, do you really not believe AEW could be doing things better? They definitely struggle with booking and formatting their shows and would be way better off having someone who knows what they're doing in charge of that. National television isn't the time to learn on the job.


----------



## DammitChrist

BroncoBuster3 said:


> I have to ask, do you really not believe AEW could be doing things better? They definitely struggle with booking and formatting their shows and would be way better off having someone who knows what they're doing in charge of that. National television isn't the time to learn on the job.


I believe in the philosophy that they could be doing WAY worse than what they’re doing now.


----------



## BroncoBuster3

DammitChrist said:


> I believe in the philosophy that they could be doing WAY worse than what they’re doing now.


So you're willing to settle for average? Some people aren't and shouldn't ever settle for average and that's why these conversations or arguments are had. It's that simple. If you're ok with it then why engage in arguments with people who want the show to be better? Don't engage and enjoy the show, but don't get shitty when people have higher expectations for fucks sake.


----------



## DammitChrist

BroncoBuster3 said:


> So you're willing to settle for average? Some people aren't and shouldn't ever settle for average and that's why these conversations or arguments are had. It's that simple. If you're ok with it then why engage in arguments with people who want the show to be better? Don't engage and enjoy the show, *but don't get shitty when people have higher expectations for fucks sake.*


How does being positive and optimistic for the show somehow equal to me “getting shitty?” 

Do you not see the doom-and-gloom here over an average rating (even going as far as pretending to “root” for the company to succeed)? 

You’re getting hostile at the wrong person here, dude.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> I guess we should stick with the usual lack of DQs and count-outs then


How about doing the right finish for the right match at the right time, instead of insecurely avoiding it like the plague because internet fans are still way more markish than you’d let on?



DammitChrist said:


> I believe in the philosophy that they could be doing WAY worse than what they’re doing now.


And they could be doing WAY better. Why do you feel the need to reduce everything to two opposing extremes in order to dismiss it as being reasonable?

AEW being able to do worse is not the same thing as them not being able to do better.

AEW doing a DQ once in a while is not the same thing as doing them every single week.


----------



## BroncoBuster3

DammitChrist said:


> How does being positive and optimistic for the show somehow equal to me “getting shitty?”
> 
> Do you not see the doom-and-gloom here over an average rating (even going as far as pretending to “root” for the company to succeed)?
> 
> You’re getting hostile at the wrong person here, dude.


I completely disagree. I see people pointing things that could be better out and being jumped on by people who are wayyyy too positive about a company that unfortunately isn't perfect. I don't think anyone is pretending to want AEW to succeed. Most people are sick of WWE and wanted something better, right? So their expectations of better haven't been met. That doesn't mean they're trolling or pretending. It just means they're not settling. Also I'm not being hostile, excuse the swear words, put it down to a cultural thing I guess.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> How about doing the right finish for the right match at the right time, instead of insecurely avoiding it like the plague because internet fans are still way more markish than you’d let on?
> 
> 
> 
> And they could be doing WAY better. Why do you feel the need to reduce everything to two opposing extremes in order to dismiss it as being reasonable?
> 
> AEW being able to do worse is not the same thing as them not being able to do better.
> 
> AEW doing a DQ once in a while is not the same thing as doing them every single week.


Don’t you think you’re overly nitpicking about the lack of DQs and count-outs here though? 

They’re still capable of delivering entertaining shows in spite of them. 

It’s honestly not really a big deal.


----------



## The Wood

BroncoBuster3 said:


> I completely disagree. I see people pointing things that could be better out and being jumped on by people who are wayyyy too positive about a company that unfortunately isn't perfect. I don't think anyone is pretending to want AEW to succeed. Most people are sick of WWE and wanted something better, right? So their expectations of better haven't been met. That doesn't mean they're trolling or pretending. It just means they're not settling. Also I'm not being hostile, excuse the swear words, put it down to a cultural thing I guess.


Bingo. 


DammitChrist said:


> Don’t you think you’re overly nitpicking about the lack of DQs and count-outs here though?
> 
> They’re still capable of delivering entertaining shows in spite of them.
> 
> It’s honestly not really a big deal.


No. And it’s not just about specifically DQs and countouts — it’s their philosophy. That extends to booking, finishes, match structure, etc. It’s all the same because everyone has to get all their shit in and look competitive. It’s 50/50 booking and you see a match once and you’ve seen it forever, without room for further context to be added. They don’t know how to do TV matches and TV finishes that lead to bigger and more involved programs — actual feuds.

DQs and countouts (what internet nerds think of as “non-finishes,” for some reason) are a symptom of this philosophy. It’s them being able to encapsulate a varied and nuances form of story-telling. Ironically, this makes them more like WWE than if they had a finish like the one to Funk/Lawler’s first five star match.


----------



## RapShepard

The Wood said:


> AEW doing a DQ once in a while is not the same thing as doing them every single week.


In a world where we'll inevitably get 250+ free TV matches. You really shouldn't be able to count how many times a standard match ending (pinfall, submission, count out, interference, or DQ) happened on one hand. 

Gimmick matches should be once in a blue moon. Regulating finish types in general shouldn't be a thing though.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Let's not do DQs and Countout but then use the worst habits wrestling has ever done like having gazillion interferences and post show beatdowns and gazillion groups on one show.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*I don't think Omega should be in a feud with anyone for the title until after his match with Moose. I feel like all attention should be placed on that match and they should actually promote it on Dynamite. This whole acting like TNA doesn't exist is so counterproductive for both companies. Omega is just carrying around a bunch of meaningless belts, and TNA is no better off than they were back in December.*


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Don’t you think you’re overly nitpicking about the lack of DQs and count-outs here though?
> 
> They’re still capable of delivering entertaining shows in spite of them.
> 
> It’s honestly not really a big deal.


For me, it is less an issue that they almost never have a DQ than it is that things that SHOULD be a DQ are never called. So when a hardcore or no DQ match is announced it means literally nothing because all the matches already have no rules.


----------



## The Wood

Two Sheds said:


> For me, it is less an issue that they almost never have a DQ than it is that things that SHOULD be a DQ are never called. So when a hardcore or no DQ match is announced it means literally nothing because all the matches already have no rules.


Exactly. If you don’t want to do a DQ...okay? But don’t do things that should get you DQ’d. Hire workers who can utilise the rules.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Any news about the tickets sold for DoN at the moment?


----------



## 3venflow

@ProjectGargano About 4,200 sold (some may have been held back for comps/guests), less than 500 available for standard sale, less than 450 on resale.


----------



## ProjectGargano

3venflow said:


> @ProjectGargano About 4,200 sold (some may have been held back for comps/guests), less than 500 available for standard sale, less than 450 on resale.
> 
> View attachment 101569


Thanks!


----------



## TD Stinger

Judging by that picture, it does look like they're going back to the one tunnel stage and having fans on top of the stage as well.










Cool.


----------



## ProjectGargano

TD Stinger said:


> Judging by that picture, it does look like they're going back to the one tunnel stage and having fans on top of the stage as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool.


It will be refreshing to see.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*JR admits AEW panicked after the blood and guts rating because they weren't sure if they'd be able to maintain a million viewers at the 6:47 mark:*





*So for the people acting like 800k is fine 2 weeks later, even they know it's not.*


----------



## DammitChrist

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *JR admits AEW panicked after the blood and guts rating because they weren't sure if they'd be able to maintain a million viewers at the 6:47 mark:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *So for the people acting like 800k is fine 2 weeks later, even they know it's not.*


800 K viewers is actually a fine (but really average) number. They're just motivated to do even better than they already are.

I don't see why you need to be so pessimistic here.


----------



## The Wood

DammitChrist said:


> 800 K viewers is actually a fine (but really average) number. They're just motivated to do even better than they already are.
> 
> I don't see why you need to be so pessimistic here.


That’s why they got bumped off TNT.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> That’s why they got bumped off TNT.


Change could still lead to a better future


----------



## Hitman1987

No need to panic, Orange Cassidy is a massive draw 🙄


----------



## DaSlacker

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *JR admits AEW panicked after the blood and guts rating because they weren't sure if they'd be able to maintain a million viewers at the 6:47 mark:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *So for the people acting like 800k is fine 2 weeks later, even they know it's not.*


Tony Khan needs to write out in full the next few preempted episodes, then let Callis produce the booking sheet/format from gorilla. Then he should take some time away from the Florida tapings, sit back and watch Raw, NXT, Dynamite and SmackDown all live. Each week. Purely as a fan, like he did years ago.

He'll soon realise why he's struggling to get 1 million viewers.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

DaSlacker said:


> Tony Khan needs to write out in full the next few preempted episodes, then let Callis produce the booking sheet/format from gorilla. Then he should take some time away from the Florida tapings, sit back and watch Raw, NXT, Dynamite and SmackDown all live. Each week. Purely as a fan, like he did years ago.
> 
> He'll soon realise why he's struggling to get 1 million viewers.


*I will agree with everything you said here except RAW and NXT. RAW is God awful and NXT is boring. Strictly from a formatting perspective, he does need to take notes from Smackdown.*


----------



## DammitChrist

NXT is a really good show though (arguably better than Smackdown lately), and Dynamite is also a really good show too.

Hell, I actually prefer both shows that were part of the 'Wednesday Night Wars' compared to Smackdown nowadays; so I don't see why anybody needs to "take notes" here.

For the record, I think Smackdown is a fairly good show atm. However, I feel like it's #3 to Dynamite and NXT respectively.


----------



## RapShepard

Found on Facebook, do what thou wilt?


----------



## DammitChrist

RapShepard said:


> Found on Facebook, do what thou wilt?
> 
> View attachment 101606


None of that makes any sense whatsoever.

If this is supposed to be a 'joke', then it's not really clever (or funny).


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1396870895096893443

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DaSlacker

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I will agree with everything you said here except RAW and NXT. RAW is God awful and NXT is boring. Strictly from a formatting perspective, he does need to take notes from Smackdown.*


I agree with you there, Raw is awful and SmackDown is formatted well. But I meant it more in a sense of looking at TV wrestling through the eyes of the casual observer. He'd quickly see that Dynamite is too samey to the 'goto' brand while existing in an already over saturated market.


----------



## The Wood

RapShepard said:


> Found on Facebook, do what thou wilt?
> 
> View attachment 101606


I recognise all those. 



DammitChrist said:


> None of that makes any sense whatsoever.
> 
> If this is supposed to be a 'joke', then it's not really clever (or funny).


There should be another square which says “actually it’s really good.”


----------



## DammitChrist

The Wood said:


> There should be another square which says “actually it’s really good.”


I don't see why that truthful quote needs to be perceived negatively. It's an accurate statement after all.


----------



## YamchaRocks

The Wood said:


> There should be another square which says “actually it’s really good.”


Tbh that "funny" picture makes no sense and is clearly just a lame 'attempt' to bait AEW fans tbh


----------



## The Wood

I got bingo.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Found on Facebook, do what thou wilt?
> 
> View attachment 101606


*I instantly got bingo, lol*


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> I don't see why that truthful quote needs to be perceived negatively. It's an accurate statement after all.


You really are not clear on the differences between facts and opinions huh?

A lot of people see the issues AEW has, and yes, those are opinions too, but they are becoming more and more obvious as the shine wears off. Sticking your fingers in your ear and saying "well, my opinion is more accurate because I say so" is just immature and lazy.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Found on Facebook, do what thou wilt?
> 
> View attachment 101606


lol... ok... will play

’critic bingo‘ replacements]

’if this was the WWE’
’all they need is a booker’
’Jim Cornette says’
’Russo says’
’in the attitude era’
’in the Hogan era’
’wrestling is dead’
’they can’t even get a million’
’Meltzer is surely on the payroll’
’Pockets isn’t a draw’
’they said sports-based!’
’let’s see them move to monday nights‘
’this wasn’t a real war’
’ok basement dweller’
’this isn’t real wrestling’
’all they do is flip, no psychology’
’Kenny and the young fucks are overrated’
’daddy’s money’
’you can‘t look at any outside factors!’
’less than TNA in 2012!’



’i just want them to be better’


its scary that i could write 20 more and they came to me pretty quick


----------



## DammitChrist

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol... ok... will play
> 
> ’critic bingo‘ replacements]
> 
> ’if this was the WWE’
> ’all the need is a booker’
> ’Jim Cornette says’
> ’Russo says’
> ’in the attitude era’
> ’in the Hogan era’
> ’wrestling is dead’
> ’they can’t even get a million’
> ’Meltzer is surely on the payroll’
> ’Pockets isn’t a draw’
> ’they said sports-based!’
> ’let’s see them move to monday nights‘
> ’this wasn’t a real war’
> ’ok basement dweller’
> ’this isn’t real wrestling’
> ’all they do is flip, no psychology’
> ’Kenny and the young fucks are overrated’
> ’daddy’s money’
> ’you can‘t look at any outside factors!’
> ’less than TNA in 2012!’
> 
> 
> 
> ’i just want them to be better’
> 
> 
> its scary that i could write 20 more and they came to me pretty quick


Okay, now THIS is hilarious (and true) 😂


----------



## CM Buck

Rolls eyes


----------



## The Wood

Firefromthegods said:


> Rolls eyes


I rolled mine so hard I got a quick three on myself.


----------



## CM Buck

The Wood said:


> I rolled mine so hard I got a quick three on myself.


Oh make no mistake im rolling my eye's on both sets of bingo cards


----------



## BroncoBuster3

Two Sheds said:


> You really are not clear on the differences between facts and opinions huh?
> 
> A lot of people see the issues AEW has, and yes, those are opinions too, but they are becoming more and more obvious as the shine wears off. Sticking your fingers in your ear and saying "well, my opinion is more accurate because I say so" is just immature and lazy.


I can honestly see some of your frustrations here. I am an AEW fan, watched every episode and enjoy a lot of the talent signed but some of the people on here can't have an honest discussion about where AEW goes wrong. As a wrestling fan it makes me feel better about keeping this side of my life hidden and not bothering trying to discuss it with other fans. The Bingo card was spot on with things I've seen on here too. The excuses are getting ridiculous. I know I am new here, but we all seem to want AEW to succeed and be better, why are some people so against it? It's confusing as hell.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Firefromthegods said:


> Oh make no mistake im rolling my eye's on both sets of bingo cards


:’(

hey... i worked a whole 3 minutes on that


----------



## CM Buck

LifeInCattleClass said:


> :’(
> 
> hey... i worked a whole 3 minutes on that


Modding has aged me. I used to be a vibrant 29 year old. Now I'm 75


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Firefromthegods said:


> Modding has aged me. I used to be a vibrant 29 year old. Now I'm 75


lol - just declare this a ‘rants’ thread and be done with it mate

will save you so much trouble


----------



## CM Buck

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol - just declare this a ‘rants’ thread and be done with it mate
> 
> will save you so much trouble


I wish I had that power lol


----------



## VIP86

*Let's Keep the Dream Alive








*


----------



## The Wood

Firefromthegods said:


> Oh make no mistake im rolling my eye's on both sets of bingo cards


You’ve got to pretend to be unbiased.


----------



## CM Buck

The Wood said:


> You’ve got to pretend to be unbiased.


I am unbiased when it comes to aew.


----------



## Brad Boyd

VIP86 said:


> *Let's Keep the Dream Alive
> 
> View attachment 101622
> *


AEW is a workrate fiesta. Maybe when they promised a "sports based presentation" That's what they meant? If so, they delivered. lol. Too many matches and not enough promos is a way to describe AEW. Heck even NXT is doing a better job at finding a better balance between two of the things that make up the foundation of pro wrestling.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

I got bingo on both cards, what do I win?


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol... ok... will play
> 
> ’critic bingo‘ replacements]
> 
> ’if this was the WWE’
> ’all they need is a booker’
> ’Jim Cornette says’
> ’Russo says’
> ’in the attitude era’
> ’in the Hogan era’
> ’wrestling is dead’
> ’they can’t even get a million’
> ’Meltzer is surely on the payroll’
> ’Pockets isn’t a draw’
> ’they said sports-based!’
> ’let’s see them move to monday nights‘
> ’this wasn’t a real war’
> ’ok basement dweller’
> ’this isn’t real wrestling’
> ’all they do is flip, no psychology’
> ’Kenny and the young fucks are overrated’
> ’daddy’s money’
> ’you can‘t look at any outside factors!’
> ’less than TNA in 2012!’
> 
> 
> 
> ’i just want them to be better’
> 
> 
> its scary that i could write 20 more and they came to me pretty quick


Make it a card


----------



## RapShepard

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> I got bingo on both cards, what do I win?


In the spirit of the business I'd say an 8 ball of cocaine, some kinseo tape, a handful of painkillers, and some legpads


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

RapShepard said:


> In the spirit of the business I'd say an 8 ball of cocaine, some kinseo tape, a handful of painkillers, and some legpads


Sounds like a regular Wednesday night so I'm not gonna complain.


----------



## RapShepard

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Sounds like a regular Wednesday night so I'm not gonna complain.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Make it a card


not enough space on a card
Not enough willpower from me
We’ll get bingo from Woods alone already


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> not enough space on a card
> Not enough willpower from me
> We’ll get bingo from Woods alone already


That's not a world champion attitude. That's stuck in catering attitude.. are you a JTG or a Kenny Omega sir!!!


----------



## .christopher.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> not enough space on a card
> *Not enough willpower from me*
> We’ll get bingo from Woods alone already


Don't fib. You spend your free time drawing pictures of people on this forum that upset you. You have plenty of willpower for this stuff.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> That's not a world champion attitude. That's stuck in catering attitude.. are you a JTG or a Kenny Omega sir!!!


i am a george the animal steele - fat, hairy and old


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i am a george the animal steele - fat, hairy and old


 you had Elizabeth sympathy for a second so I guess it works out lol


----------



## Prosper

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol... ok... will play
> 
> ’critic bingo‘ replacements]
> 
> ’if this was the WWE’
> ’all they need is a booker’
> ’Jim Cornette says’
> ’Russo says’
> ’in the attitude era’
> ’in the Hogan era’
> ’wrestling is dead’
> ’they can’t even get a million’
> ’Meltzer is surely on the payroll’
> ’Pockets isn’t a draw’
> ’they said sports-based!’
> ’let’s see them move to monday nights‘
> ’this wasn’t a real war’
> ’ok basement dweller’
> ’this isn’t real wrestling’
> ’all they do is flip, no psychology’
> ’Kenny and the young fucks are overrated’
> ’daddy’s money’
> ’you can‘t look at any outside factors!’
> ’less than TNA in 2012!’
> 
> 
> 
> ’i just want them to be better’
> 
> 
> its scary that i could write 20 more and they came to me pretty quick


Lol accurate


----------



## 3venflow

Looks like Miami has relaxed the 50% rule? AEW had pretty much sold out the allowed capacity for the Miami show but has now added new seats.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1397645012230344705


----------



## Prosper

3venflow said:


> Looks like Miami has relaxed the 50% rule? AEW had pretty much sold out the allowed capacity for the Miami show but has now added new seats.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1397645012230344705


The whole mask thing is starting to go away on the East Coast so things are finally getting back to normal. Most restaurants here in MD don’t require masks anymore just hospitals.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

With Wood gone this thread just lost about all of its appeal. Who's gonna debate now?


----------



## La Parka

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> With Wood gone this thread just lost about all of its appeal. Who's gonna debate now?


It’ll just be post after post like this:

“I’m so glad orange Cassidy is the new world champion, Khan totally owned cucknette and his cult!”


“Great show! It’s a shame only 800k watched it, I guess people were watching the CFL draft on ESPN 6 this week”

“Another 5 star classic for the young bucks, it was totally cool seeing that call back to their 2017 match from the toyko dome!”


----------



## DammitChrist

In all fairness, everything will be just fine now


----------



## tower_

I wonder if NXT moving nights was a pyrrhic victory for them. The initial huge addition of eyeballs showed there was a larger market they could appeal to but the ratings dwindling back down to their normal numbers showed they dont really appeal to it.

Being at 800k against competition sounds a lot better than being at 800k solo. Makes me think about how retail chains often cluster. Like you'll usually see a McDonalds right next to a Wendy's. Or 3 gas stations all on the same street, instead of spreading them out. The competition might actually help. You see one gas station and you're like "ehhh, I'm on a quarter tank, should I just pull over?" and then there's another one right there so you do


----------



## Prosper

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> With Wood gone this thread just lost about all of its appeal. Who's gonna debate now?





La Parka said:


> It’ll just be post after post like this:
> 
> “I’m so glad orange Cassidy is the new world champion, Khan totally owned cucknette and his cult!”
> 
> 
> “Great show! It’s a shame only 800k watched it, I guess people were watching the CFL draft on ESPN 6 this week”
> 
> “Another 5 star classic for the young bucks, it was totally cool seeing that call back to their 2017 match from the toyko dome!”


Why are you waiting for Wood my guy who cares, post your opinions in debate to what you don’t agree with no one is stopping you.


----------



## Hitman1987

What happened to Wood?


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Hitman1987 said:


> What happened to Wood?


He got banned permanently for "baiting" while most people in this thread who baited only got week long bans. He's been enemy #1 in this thread for months unfortunately.


----------



## Hitman1987

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> He got banned permanently for "baiting" while most people in this thread who baited only got week long bans. He's been enemy #1 in this thread for months unfortunately.


That’s a shame, I’m glad he went out swinging though:


----------



## DammitChrist

I take it that the next month for Dynamite will most likely be a struggle then now that they'll be airing episodes on a different night at a later time slot?


----------



## Not Lying

It seems that all wrestling shows are down right now/for the past 2-3 weeks, and a bit significantly.

RAW down to 1.6m, SD to 1.8/1.9m, NXT back to 600s, and AEW back to 800s. Like 200K wrestling fans just up and went.


----------



## 749129

DammitChrist said:


> In all fairness, everything will be just fine now


Maybe in your perspective.


----------



## 3venflow

The Definition of Technician said:


> RAW down to 1.6m, SD to 1.8/1.9m, NXT back to 600s, and AEW back to 800s. Like 200K wrestling fans just up and went.


The 'excuse' line will be thrown out, but NBA playoffs are hurting wrestling ratings top to bottom right now. A lot of people will be watching on DVR.


----------



## Not Lying

3venflow said:


> The 'excuse' line will be thrown out, but NBA playoffs are hurting wrestling ratings top to bottom right now. A lot of people will be watching on DVR.


I guess there's that + people are going out more, and there is no must TV better than getting drunk at a bar after a year being locked down.


----------



## yeahright2

3venflow said:


> The 'excuse' line will be thrown out, but NBA playoffs are hurting wrestling ratings top to bottom right now. A lot of people will be watching on DVR.


There´s no excuse for RAW. It´s just bad. Very professionally produced, but bad. 
I´d say there´s no excuse for wrestling in general. If the program is good enough, people will watch. But there´s no "must see" anywhere in TV today. People will find a lot of things more interesting -NBA, NFL, spring time, Beer, women, walking the dog, sleeping, women, beer, weed.. did I mention beer?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1397966809782001664
Cody is a clown for this. It's a circular argument. People won't watch your TV if you give away everything on TV. There's nothing to look forward to anymore when you over stack a card every month.*


----------



## DammitChrist

It's really pointless getting mad about what Cody Rhodes posted here.

They could (ideally) just do the best for both worlds here by booking fun thrilling matches on TV to keep viewers hooked, but STILL save the bigger intriguing match-ups for the ppvs.

Nobody really said anything about them giving away everything on TV (including their biggest match-ups) for free.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DammitChrist said:


> It's really pointless getting mad about what Cody Rhodes posted here.
> 
> They could (ideally) just do the best for both worlds here by booking fun thrilling matches on TV to keep viewers hooked, but STILL save the bigger intriguing match-ups for the ppvs.
> 
> Nobody really said anything about them giving away everything on TV (including their biggest match-ups) for free.


what world are we living in anyways if people complain about getting big matches for free on tv? 🤦‍♂️


----------



## Ger

I think that is ontopic, because the people here care for this kind of issues, so why not doing it in a game?








AEW Elite General Manager game will let you have your own ratings wars with your friends


The next offering from the company’s video games division will have PVP, so you can finally prove you’re the best booker on the interwebs!




www.cagesideseats.com


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ger said:


> I think that is ontopic, because the people here care for this kind of issues, so why not doing it in a game?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW Elite General Manager game will let you have your own ratings wars with your friends
> 
> 
> The next offering from the company’s video games division will have PVP, so you can finally prove you’re the best booker on the interwebs!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cagesideseats.com


ah, think we can get a little league going here when it launched 

would love to see the magic from some of our best armchair bookers


----------



## NathanMayberry

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ah, think we can get a little league going here when it launched
> 
> would love to see the magic from some of our best armchair bookers


If this game is anywhere near realistic, I'd win easily. 

Whil


----------



## Deathiscoming

Why is this so empty, no ratings for fridays show? Even in general there used to be 2-4 pages extra material every day, the pages would keep rolling.


----------



## Aedubya

Someone was saying the Friday ratings won't be out until Monday

.88 prediction


----------



## yeahright2

Deathiscoming said:


> Why is this so empty, no ratings for fridays show? Even in general there used to be 2-4 pages extra material every day, the pages would keep rolling.


someone decided they didn´t want @The Wood to bring a little life to the AEW section.


----------



## Deathiscoming

yeahright2 said:


> someone decided they didn´t want @The Wood to bring a little life to the AEW section.


Yeah it's really strange. I noticed for months the raw and smackdown ratings thread would see little activity, mostly revolving around the days ratings came out. But the AEW ratings thread was always booming and blooming all week long! And a huge reason for that was @The Wood lol.


----------



## La Parka

Deathiscoming said:


> Why is this so empty, no ratings for fridays show? Even in general there used to be 2-4 pages extra material every day, the pages would keep rolling.


The forum wasn’t dead enough, so they got rid of a regular contributor because he hurt someone’s fee fees by posting his opinions about a wrestling company.


----------



## DammitChrist

Deathiscoming said:


> Why is this so empty, no ratings for fridays show? Even in general there used to be 2-4 pages extra material every day, the pages would keep rolling.


Peace is underrated. Let's keep it that way, (and nope, didn't have anything to do with it).


----------



## 3venflow

Showbuzz has been down for weeks and that makes it hard to analyse the ratings. It seems no one else has access to the full data from Nielsen, at least not quickly. Meltzer and Keller get it but on a delay.


----------



## CovidFan

Aedubya said:


> Someone was saying the Friday ratings won't be out until Monday


Probably Tuesday because Memorial Day tomorrow.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Yeah Showbuzzdaily being down and The Wood being banned means this thread is unfortunately dead.

I’m a bit annoyed Meltzer is our only source to see the numbers now. Can he be trusted? Hopefully Showbuzzdaily comes back.


----------



## yeahright2

Dark Emperor said:


> Yeah Showbuzzdaily being down and The Wood being banned means this thread is unfortunately dead.
> 
> I’m a bit annoyed Meltzer is our only source to see the numbers now. Can he be trusted? Hopefully Showbuzzdaily comes back.


He can definitely NOT be trusted when it comes to reporting info about AEW unless he just repeats what someone else already said.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

3venflow said:


> Showbuzz has been down for weeks and that makes it hard to analyse the ratings. It seems no one else has access to the full data from Nielsen, at least not quickly. Meltzer and Keller get it but on a delay.


I could have sworn I saw a tweet on Twitter by the founder(?) saying they weren't coming back because they ran the site at cost and the headache it would cause. Also they found other problems they weren't aware of that had been going on for months.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Wood gets banned but those Yamacha and Kentucky accounts can just fill the forum with bait threads til their hearts content eh. Cool, makes sense.


----------



## rbl85

yeahright2 said:


> someone decided they didn´t want @The Wood to bring a little life to the AEW section.


Not a big loss


----------



## Prosper

Dark Emperor said:


> Yeah Showbuzzdaily being down and The Wood being banned means this thread is unfortunately dead.
> 
> I’m a bit annoyed Meltzer is our only source to see the numbers now. Can he be trusted? Hopefully Showbuzzdaily comes back.


Who reports the numbers for WWE?


----------



## 749129

rbl85 said:


> Not a big loss


Wow maybe I'm in another universe.


----------



## rbl85

Prosper said:


> Who reports the numbers for WWE?


Meltzer most of the time


----------



## Prosper

rbl85 said:


> Meltzer most of the time


So Meltzer who praises WWE when it's warranted can't be trusted for AEW ratings but can be trusted for WWE ratings?

Lol yeah that makes sense


----------



## Dark Emperor

rbl85 said:


> Meltzer most of the time


Surely there’s another source where the public can check. I know when there is a big rating success or dip for a show, media outlets will report it like with NBA last yr. But hard to find weekly numbers.

It also goes to show that Wood was right all along. Just because Showbuzzdaily ranked the shows by 18-49 demo, did not make it some kind of official ranking and the show at top No1. It was just how they showed it. Another site could have done it by viewership.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Prosper said:


> So Meltzer who praises WWE when it's warranted can't be trusted for AEW ratings but can be trusted for WWE ratings?
> 
> Lol yeah that makes sense


Hes not trusted full stop. WWE ratings have been from Showbuzzdaily. Recent weeks no one even bothered to post about it until they heard there was a big drop.

I don’t know who got the numbers first.


----------



## A PG Attitude

rbl85 said:


> Not a big loss


Yep. He was the worst thing about this forum. Even on ignore you couldn't escape him.


----------



## DammitChrist

Dave Meltzer is fairly reliable in all honesty.

We can count on him to give out the weekly ratings


----------



## Prosper

Dark Emperor said:


> Hes not trusted full stop. WWE ratings have been from Showbuzzdaily. Recent weeks no one even bothered to post about it until they heard there was a big drop.
> 
> I don’t know who got the numbers first.


He has no reason to lie, if he were to prop up ratings you would think he would say Dynamite is doing 1.5-1.8 mil every week. Why report the lows of 800k if he was purposely inflating?


----------



## yeahright2

Prosper said:


> He has no reason to lie, if he were to prop up ratings you would think he would say Dynamite is doing 1.5-1.8 mil every week. Why report the lows of 800k if he was purposely inflating?


Because they could have been 650 and 800K sounds better. Inflating 800K to 1.8 would have brought unwanted attention to him, as other sources might do their own investigation to see if it was actually true.
I don´t trust Meltzer in anything these days. He has no sources in WWE, so his "backstage news" is pure speculation based on what we can all see with his own spin on it to make it "news".
And since he lost all integrity when it comes to AEW, I don´t trust him on anything there either. I´m sure he gets the big news directly from TK, but when his reporting is so one-sided -he can´t even straight out say when something is shit, but will come up with "It was the second least good match" or similar, then his reports and status as "wrestling journalist" becomes worthless..


----------



## DammitChrist

yeahright2 said:


> Because they could have been 650 and 800K sounds better. Inflating 800K to 1.8 would have brought unwanted attention to him, as other sources might do their own investigation to see if it was actually true.
> I don´t trust Meltzer in anything these days. He has no sources in WWE, so his "backstage news" is pure speculation based on what we can all see with his own spin on it to make it "news".
> And since he lost all integrity when it comes to AEW, I don´t trust him on anything there either. I´m sure he gets the big news directly from TK, but when his reporting is so one-sided -*he can´t even straight out say when something is shit, but will come up with "It was the second least good match" or similar,* then his reports and status as "wrestling journalist" becomes worthless..


Nah, Meltzer still has plenty of integrity since he's an ongoing valuable source.

Besides, perhaps he makes the bolded statements because he doesn't find those 'weaker' segments to be "shitty" (or even halfway as "bad") like some vocal folks claim to be online. Wrestling fans generally tend to overreact anyway, so he doesn't need to follow suit, especially if he genuinely didn't find something to be 'bad'.

Anyway, I don't think there's a need to shrug off his reports as being worthless just because you oppose many of his viewpoints and opinions about AEW.

Edit:

I'm generally willing to give Meltzer the benefit of the doubt. He doesn't really come across as a jerk or obnoxious whenever he shares his news and opinions.


----------



## CovidFan

yeahright2 said:


> but will come up with "It was the second least good match"


I'm certain he's never said that so not sure why you're quoting it. Should probably actually listen to or read his stuff if you're gonna criticize so hard.


----------



## Prosper

yeahright2 said:


> Because they could have been 650 and 800K sounds better. Inflating 800K to 1.8 would have brought unwanted attention to him, as other sources might do their own investigation to see if it was actually true.
> I don´t trust Meltzer in anything these days. He has no sources in WWE, so his "backstage news" is pure speculation based on what we can all see with his own spin on it to make it "news".
> And since he lost all integrity when it comes to AEW, I don´t trust him on anything there either. I´m sure he gets the big news directly from TK, but when his reporting is so one-sided -he can´t even straight out say when something is shit, but will come up with "It was the second least good match" or similar, then his reports and status as "wrestling journalist" becomes worthless..


What indication do we have that he's propping them up though? This is a pretty baseless accusation. 

What has he reported as far as AEW or WWE to make him lose integrity? I must be missing something. When rating matches, those are just his opinions like we have ours. 

I do agree that most of his news stories are purely speculation and things the fans can figure out on their own, but it doesn't make those stories wrong, because more times than not it ends up playing out that way anyway. He's a journalist who's trying to get views much like Cornette is a podcaster trying to do the same.


----------



## DammitChrist

Prosper said:


> What indication do we have that he's propping them up though? This is a pretty baseless accusation.
> 
> What has he reported as far as AEW or WWE to make him lose integrity? I must be missing something. When rating matches, those are just his opinions like we have ours.
> 
> I do agree that most of his news stories are purely speculation and things the fans can figure out on their own, but it doesn't make those stories wrong, because more times than not it ends up playing out that way anyway. He's a journalist who's trying to get views much like Cornette is a podcaster trying to do the same.


For the record, I'd like to add that plenty of folks make fun of Meltzer and disregard his news with the "plans change" meme; but it's not like he's really wrong about that with WWE (since I think that's when he usually makes those statements). Vince is known for throwing out scripts at the last minute, and he tends to write up a new one of his own basically a few hours before a show even begins.

Meltzer tends to be reliable with match-ups that end up taking place at Wrestlemania over the past several years (as an example to demonstrate his credibility as a source).


----------



## Prosper

DammitChrist said:


> For the record, I'd like to add that plenty of folks make fun of Meltzer and disregard his news with the "plans change" meme; but it's not like he's really wrong about that with WWE (since I think that's when he usually makes those statements). Vince is known for throwing out scripts at the last minute, and he tends to write up a new one of his own basically a few hours before a show even begins.
> 
> Meltzer tends to be reliable with match-ups that end up taking place at Wrestlemania over the past several years (as an example to demonstrate his credibility as a source).


He's usually right about most things in WWE even when he says "plans change" so I must have missed these instances that have led to people thinking that he was unreliable. No one posts anything to back up their points. I'm willing to change my mind if there's proof. I don't really care that much as to praise Dave. 

I think the issue is that those who are more critical of AEW hate to see Meltzer who they have been looking at as a source in WWE take a liking towards Dynamite. So because of that fact, he's now a piece of shit all of a sudden. Until someone can find me multiple instances or proof where he clearly lied about something in AEW or propped them up in ratings then that is the simple case here. 

I mean why not prop up or downplay WWE ratings then before AEW existed? Would that not get him a higher click-through rate?


----------



## yeahright2

Prosper said:


> What indication do we have that he's propping them up though? This is a pretty baseless accusation.
> 
> What has he reported as far as AEW or WWE to make him lose integrity? I must be missing something. When rating matches, those are just his opinions like we have ours.
> 
> I do agree that most of his news stories are purely speculation and things the fans can figure out on their own, but it doesn't make those stories wrong, because more times than not it ends up playing out that way anyway. He's a journalist who's trying to get views much like Cornette is a podcaster trying to do the same.


We don´t have any indications - You were the one who made a claim that someone trusted his WWE rating numbers but not the AEW ones. I just said he´s more likely to inflate AEW numbers than WWE. But doing so would be incredibly stupid, as TV ratings can be verified by anyone who cares to study that kind of thing.
As far as match ratings: Those are his opinion, and he´s entitled to them, but some people see them as a gospel and the only truth out there. His match rating is clearly biased towards Omega and the Bucks, and Tokyo Dome. - And don´t forget; The entire match rating system was made up by Jim Cornette and Weasel Dooley as a joke.
I´m repeating myself here, but he lost integrity when his actual sources in WWE stopped giving him scoops and he continued to give the "backstage news", pretending it was actual news and not just speculation based on what we can all see. And his "plans changed" line he uses whenever he´s wrong, or the "this may or may not happen, and if it does then I was told so and so, while if it doesn´t, then I heard this" doesn´t help his case.
Being reliable about what matches is gonna happen at WM; That´s easy.. We can all do that a month or more in advance just by watching the show. An example; When Bryan was added to the WM match between Roman and Edge, I said Reigns was gonna retain. And I was right. Does that make me an excellent wrestling journalist? No, it makes WWE too damned predictable, that´s all.


----------



## yeahright2

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, Meltzer still has plenty of integrity since he's an ongoing valuable source.
> 
> Besides, perhaps he makes the bolded statements because he doesn't find those 'weaker' segments to be "shitty" (or even halfway as "bad") like some vocal folks claim to be online. Wrestling fans generally tend to overreact anyway, so he doesn't need to follow suit, especially if he genuinely didn't find something to be 'bad'.
> 
> Anyway, I don't think there's a need to shrug off his reports as being worthless just because you oppose many of his viewpoints and opinions about AEW.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> I'm generally willing to give Meltzer the benefit of the doubt. He doesn't really come across as a jerk or obnoxious whenever he shares his news and opinions.


Meltzer has a lot of valuable historical knowledge, I´ll give him that. But I´m not shrugging him off because of his viewpoints about AEW -I did that way before AEW even started because of his non-stories about WWE.. I think you can go back in my post history and look if you´re interested.


----------



## rbl85

yeahright2 said:


> We don´t have any indications - You were the one who made a claim that someone trusted *his WWE rating numbers but not the AEW ones*. I just said he´s more likely to inflate AEW numbers than WWE. But doing so would be incredibly stupid, as TV ratings can be verified by anyone who cares to study that kind of thing.
> As far as match ratings: Those are his opinion, and he´s entitled to them, but some people see them as a gospel and the only truth out there. His match rating is clearly biased towards Omega and the Bucks, and Tokyo Dome. - And don´t forget; The entire match rating system was made up by Jim Cornette and Weasel Dooley as a joke.
> I´m repeating myself here, but he lost integrity when his actual sources in WWE stopped giving him scoops and he continued to give the "backstage news", pretending it was actual news and not just speculation based on what we can all see. And his "plans changed" line he uses whenever he´s wrong, or the "this may or may not happen, and if it does then I was told so and so, while if it doesn´t, then I heard this" doesn´t help his case.
> Being reliable about what matches is gonna happen at WM; That´s easy.. We can all do that a month or more in advance just by watching the show. An example; When Bryan was added to the WM match between Roman and Edge, I said Reigns was gonna retain. And I was right. Does that make me an excellent wrestling journalist? No, it makes WWE too damned predictable, that´s all.


Dude it's not "his" numbers, it's exactly the same numbers than showbuzzdaily, he's just paying to have them in more detail.


----------



## yeahright2

rbl85 said:


> Dude it's not "his" numbers, it's exactly the same numbers than showbuzzdaily, he's just paying to have them in more detail.


Which is exactly what I said. Those numbers are publicly available, so inflating them would be foolish. Now, Meltzer may have lost his marbles, but I don´t think he´s that stupid


----------



## Prosper

yeahright2 said:


> We don´t have any indications - You were the one who made a claim that someone trusted his WWE rating numbers but not the AEW ones. I just said he´s more likely to inflate AEW numbers than WWE. But doing so would be incredibly stupid, as TV ratings can be verified by anyone who cares to study that kind of thing.
> As far as match ratings: Those are his opinion, and he´s entitled to them, but some people see them as a gospel and the only truth out there. His match rating is clearly biased towards Omega and the Bucks, and Tokyo Dome. - And don´t forget; The entire match rating system was made up by Jim Cornette and Weasel Dooley as a joke.
> I´m repeating myself here, but he lost integrity when his actual sources in WWE stopped giving him scoops and he continued to give the "backstage news", pretending it was actual news and not just speculation based on what we can all see. And his "plans changed" line he uses whenever he´s wrong, or the "this may or may not happen, and if it does then I was told so and so, while if it doesn´t, then I heard this" doesn´t help his case.
> Being reliable about what matches is gonna happen at WM; That´s easy.. We can all do that a month or more in advance just by watching the show. An example; When Bryan was added to the WM match between Roman and Edge, I said Reigns was gonna retain. And I was right. Does that make me an excellent wrestling journalist? No, it makes WWE too damned predictable, that´s all.


Well I was kind of speaking to you and @Dark Emperor at the same time because it seemed like you also thought he was inflating numbers. If Showbuzz is gonna verify them anyway, and if he hasn't been caught in the past, then there's no reason to believe that he's inflating, could inflate, or has ever inflated, especially when we will get the real numbers regardless of what he says. So where/when/how did this conversation that Meltzer is inflating numbers begin? I'm not saying that it's you, I just don't get where this narrative stemmed from in general.

And yeah you're right his card predictions are mostly due to WWE being so predictable in everything. Everything else he reports is just him trying to garner traffic to his website like every journalist does. Even the general public news outlets like CNN are widely clickbaity a lot of the time. I don't really look much into it personally, its just the way journalism is.


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> So Meltzer who praises WWE when it's warranted can't be trusted for AEW ratings but can be trusted for WWE ratings?
> 
> Lol yeah that makes sense


Ratings he's trustworthy those can get checked. 

But the fact he never gave that official Impact Rebellion PPV buyrate that was so great because of Omega and the fact he never spoils AEW secrets means he should be side eyed a little


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> Ratings he's trustworthy those can get checked.
> 
> But the fact he never gave that official Impact Rebellion PPV buyrate that was so great because of Omega and the fact he never spoils AEW secrets means he should be side eyed a little


I read somewhere that they did 9,300 - 10,000 buys on PPV. Not sure how accurate that is but hey that's all we got. 

I guess that's a boost for them not sure what they were pulling before.


----------



## .christopher.

RainmakerV2 said:


> Wood gets banned but those Yamacha and Kentucky accounts can just fill the forum with bait threads til their hearts content eh. Cool, makes sense.


Mods were like "the site change and this shitty era of wrestling hasn't killed the forum enough. Let's ban one of our most active users for shits and giggles despite not breaking any rules"


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> I read somewhere that they did 9,300 - 10,000 buys on PPV. Not sure how accurate that is but hey that's all we got.
> 
> I guess that's a boost for them not sure what they were pulling before.


At first it was an alleged 100k plus all together with TV and streams


----------



## NathanMayberry

.christopher. said:


> Mods were like "the site change and this shitty era of wrestling hasn't killed the forum enough. Let's ban one of our most active users for shits and giggles despite not breaking any rules"


That’s the worst part. 

Grown ass men can’t handle people not saying nice things about tiny khan and his wrestling promotion so they run to the mods to keep their safe space.

It would be funny if the same shit wasn’t happening on squared circle on Reddit. I’ve always found internet brand wars lame as fuck, and never participated in them, but is this how Sony and Xbox fan boy used to act? 

Also did this place used to ban people for saying wwe sucks repeatedly for the past 10 years? Why are these standards only getting applied to the AEW section? I see so much more negative on other sections right now, some of it is even made by posters in this very thread - gloating.. 

I get that AEW fans are sensitive and take criticism of the product as a form of personal attack, but the mods here should probably do some clarification on what can and cannot be said here. Because a person having negative views towards a show that is haemorrhaging viewers (it is rumoured that Friday’s dynamite is down 39%) is not all that far fetched. Call the wood annoying, sure but to ban his posts and allow all sorts of garbage like those by the racist who constantly feels the need to talk shit about black people but says the “urban community” cuz he thinks it won’t come off as racist is ridiculous. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, Meltzer still has plenty of integrity since he's an ongoing valuable source.
> 
> Besides, perhaps he makes the bolded statements because he doesn't find those 'weaker' segments to be "shitty" (or even halfway as "bad") like some vocal folks claim to be online. Wrestling fans generally tend to overreact anyway, so he doesn't need to follow suit, especially if he genuinely didn't find something to be 'bad'.
> 
> Anyway, I don't think there's a need to shrug off his reports as being worthless just because you oppose many of his viewpoints and opinions about AEW.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> I'm generally willing to give Meltzer the benefit of the doubt. He doesn't really come across as a jerk or obnoxious whenever he shares his news and opinions.


I'll forever consider Meltzer to be a piece of shit when he claimed Roman Reigns' cancer was fake. Dick move and irredeemable, you can't come back and say you're a good person after that.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

NathanMayberry said:


> That’s the worst part.
> 
> Grown ass men can’t handle people not saying nice things about tiny khan and his wrestling promotion so they run to the mods to keep their safe space.
> 
> It would be funny if the same shit wasn’t happening on squared circle on Reddit. I’ve always found internet brand wars lame as fuck, and never participated in them, but is this how Sony and Xbox fan boy used to act?
> 
> Also did this place used to ban people for saying wwe sucks repeatedly for the past 10 years? Why are these standards only getting applied to the AEW section? I see so much more negative on other sections right now, some of it is even made by posters in this very thread - gloating..
> 
> I get that AEW fans are sensitive and take criticism of the product as a form of personal attack, but the mods here should probably do some clarification on what can and cannot be said here. Because a person having negative views towards a show that is haemorrhaging viewers (it is rumoured that Friday’s dynamite is down 39%) is not all that far fetched. Call the wood annoying, sure but to ban his posts and allow all sorts of garbage like those by the racist who constantly feels the need to talk shit about black people but says the “urban community” cuz he thinks it won’t come off as racist is ridiculous.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's all about the tone you criticize them with apparently. If you don't criticize them in a "dickish" tone you're ok


----------



## Dr. Middy

At this point I'd rather just have Wood back so I can stop having to hear about him being banned.


----------



## Wolf Mark

You should unban The Wood. I know he is hard to deal with but his contribution was unparalled. Nothing wrong with having a little hell raiser when the content is so good and challening. Sort of like the opposite of Tony Khan.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> At this point I'd rather just have Wood back so I can stop having to hear about him being banned.


Nah, it's best to keep him gone.

It exposes the sensitivity of those who are afraid or feel threatened of seeing some (warranted) positivity with these off-topic, essay-length rants.

None of the regular members/fans had anything due to with his banishment too since neither of them are even responsible for coming up with the final decision, so I don't get why we're being wrongfully blamed for it.

Anyway, with that being said, they deserve solid numbers for delivering a pretty damn good ppv tonight. However, I feel like the late time slot on Friday nights may hinder them somewhat.


----------



## Deathiscoming

Especially when they already allow hellraisers like Dantheman, yamcha and Kentucky and their content is the antithesis of challenging, novel and stimulating.


----------



## DammitChrist

Yea, I do agree about those 3 names not being contributive for sure.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Prosper said:


> Well I was kind of speaking to you and @Dark Emperor at the same time because it seemed like you also thought he was inflating numbers. If Showbuzz is gonna verify them anyway, and if he hasn't been caught in the past, then there's no reason to believe that he's inflating, could inflate, or has ever inflated, especially when we will get the real numbers regardless of what he says. So where/when/how did this conversation that Meltzer is inflating numbers begin? I'm not saying that it's you, I just don't get where this narrative stemmed from in general.
> 
> And yeah you're right his card predictions are mostly due to WWE being so predictable in everything. Everything else he reports is just him trying to garner traffic to his website like every journalist does. Even the general public news outlets like CNN are widely clickbaity a lot of the time. I don't really look much into it personally, its just the way journalism is.


I was talking about future numbers now showbuzzdaily is gone. If Meltzer is now our only source going forward. I wont be surrpsied after a few months he starts inflating numbers slightly.


----------



## 3venflow

Dark Emperor said:


> I was talking about future numbers now showbuzzdaily is gone. If Meltzer is now our only source going forward. I wont be surrpsied after a few months he starts inflating numbers slightly.


Wade Keller gets the numbers too. So do various other sources, just on a delay compared to Showbuzz. Showbuzz are being stubborn about accepting help and monetary donations. Their service has been invaluable, it'll be a shame if they die.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1399398869427970049


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1399398869427970049


oh noes! The end is finally near!


----------



## 3venflow

So a shit card (possibly the worst in Dynamite history) in a shit timeslot on Friday night did a shit rating. And that means THE END IS NEAR!!!!!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> So a shit card (possibly the worst in Dynamite history) in a shit timeslot on Friday night did a shit rating. And that means THE END IS NEAR!!!!!


Early reports saying best ppv buy in forever... but the end is near bruh

twitter is wild


----------



## 3venflow

This is big for AEW if true. Wrestling is ridiculously popular over there. RAW averaged over 4m in January.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1399430136827723776


----------



## ProjectGargano

On twitter people are saying they got only 500K


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ProjectGargano said:


> On twitter people are saying they got only 500K


500k would be good for an after 10 friday night

if that is what Rampage does they’ll he over the moon


----------



## ProjectGargano

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 500k would be good for an after 10 friday night
> 
> if that is what Rampage does they’ll he over the moon


I don't know if its the true, the people saying that are WWE marks with accounts named "Cancel AEW", etc


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ProjectGargano said:


> I don't know if its the true, the people saying that are WWE marks with accounts named "Cancel AEW", etc


lol - oh - so.... not the best sources

i mean - i expected 750k as that is their faithful - but i personally don’t think 500k will be a trainsmash


----------



## TD Stinger

I don't think any official numbers have come out for the AEW Friday show. SD has but because it's on Fox.

Can't believe Showbuzz is really the only one who was running this ship all these years and now they're just gone, for now anyways.


----------



## DaSlacker

3venflow said:


> This is big for AEW if true. Wrestling is ridiculously popular over there. RAW averaged over 4m in January.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1399430136827723776


I think the problem was always making money from the Indian market. TNA had good exposure there and in Africa, but couldn't turn it into revenue. Possibly because the average salary there is the equivalent of 300 UK pounds per month. 

That might of changed though, I'm not sure how TV rights work out over there. Seems like Sony and Disney are heavily involved in media there.


----------



## yeahright2

DaSlacker said:


> I think the problem was always making money from the Indian market. TNA had good exposure there and in Africa, but couldn't turn it into revenue. Possibly because the average salary there is the equivalent of 300 UK pounds per month.
> 
> That might of changed though, I'm not sure how TV rights work out over there. Seems like Sony and Disney are heavily involved in media there.


Nailed it. Ring Ka King had 14 million viewers, but TNA made almost no money from the show.


----------



## Dark Emperor

yeahright2 said:


> Nailed it. Ring Ka King had 14 million viewers, but TNA made almost no money from the show.


WWE also made no money when they made that massive push to break into India with Jinda Mahal as the Champ.

India is no China, it has billions of people but the majority are in poverty. Almost all those viewers have no real money.

There is a reason hollywood is not fussed about Indian market whereas they bend the knee to China.


----------



## ProjectGargano

AEW Friday Night Dynamite Estimated Viewership, Ratings Delayed This Week - Wrestling Inc.


Friday’s AEW Dynamite episode on TNT reportedly drew just over 500,000 viewers. It was noted on Wrestling Observer Radio that the Friday Night Dynamite show, the go-home episode for Double Or Nothing, was down 38% from last week’s show, which drew 821,000 viewers on TNT. That puts Friday’s...




amp.wrestlinginc.com





But yeah, the 500k might be true...they say here 510k. Sheeeesh


----------



## Dark Emperor

They never went this low last Yr with previous changing of nights. I think this is their lowest rating of all time.

It's a strange time, Wrestling ratings have dropped massively in the last 3 weeks. I didn't expect the NBA playoff to have such a big effect. Unless people are just tuning out for other reasons.


----------



## Chan Hung

510,000? So 300,00 or so fans aren't as loyal as we thought? lol


----------



## La Parka

500k is horrendous but not surprising.

One of the worst televised cards, I’ve ever seen advertised. Just a complete list of dud matches that should’ve never left dark.

I said this before and I’ll say it again. It does not matter what circumstance, you’re in! Always put together the best card possible. Give those 500k fans a reason to be happy they tuned in.


----------



## 3venflow

Well this week's card in the same timeslot looks much better with Bucks vs. PAC/Penta and Dustin vs. Comoroto in the bullrope match. They've also booked Cody/Shotty Lee vs. QT/Ogogo, I guess to try and give the Nightmare group some heat back.

Hopefully it does much better than 500k.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1399450465402638338


----------



## rbl85

Chan Hung said:


> 510,000? So 300,00 or so fans aren't as loyal as we thought? lol


I think i'm pretty loyal but i'm not going to watch a show that late

Smackdown also had a pretty big drop (nearly 200k).


----------



## DammitChrist

This just goes to show you how bad of a time slot that is for the show on Friday nights. 

Expect to see more unimpressive numbers for the next month due to this change. 

The ratings should be back to the usual by July.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1399461616442384386

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dark Emperor

3venflow said:


> Well this week's card in the same timeslot looks much better with Bucks vs. PAC/Penta and Dustin vs. Comoroto in the bullrope match. They've also booked Cody/Shotty Lee vs. QT/Ogogo, I guess to try and give the Nightmare group some heat back.
> 
> Hopefully it does much better than 500k.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1399450465402638338


Why is Dave deflecting from the bad TV numbers man. So they get shocking rating and this guy making sure to tweet about supposed PPV numbers beating last years. Of course, only he has access to these numbers.

It's hard to believe AEW's PPV audience keeps increasing whilst the viewership either stagnates or declines. It never happens in any other industry. This is why we need verifiable PPV numbers.


----------



## rbl85

DammitChrist said:


> This just goes to show you how bad of a time slot that is for the show on Friday nights.
> 
> Expect to see more unimpressive numbers for the next month due to this change.
> 
> The ratings should be back to the usual by July.


The fact that smackdown had a 200k drop (usually pretty stable show) makes me think that something happened.


----------



## Dark Emperor

rbl85 said:


> The fact that smackdown had a 200k drop (usually pretty stable show) makes me think that something happened.


Smackdown did not drop 200k. You are comparing last weeks final numbers with this weeks overnight numbers. When the final number come out for Smackdown, it will be around 1.9m which is what they got last week.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Dark Emperor said:


> Why is Dave deflecting from the bad TV numbers man. So they get shocking rating and this guy making sure to tweet about supposed PPV numbers beating last years. Of course, only he has access to these numbers.
> 
> It's hard to believe AEW's PPV audience keeps increasing whilst the viewership either stagnates or declines. It never happens in any other industry. This is why we need verifiable PPV numbers.


So, do you believe in Meltzer when he gives the bad numbers of Dynamite and don´t believe in him when he says that the PPV buys are the best ever?


----------



## Dark Emperor

ProjectGargano said:


> So, do you believe in Meltzer when he gives the bad numbers of Dynamite and don´t believe in him when he says that the PPV buys are the best ever?


Dynamite numbers were easily availble through Showbuzzdaily. Meltzer was not giving out the numbers. Now with Showbuzz gone, hes one of the first to get them but other sources have these numbers. So he's unlikely to lie.

With PPV, its only him and he always gives estimates rather than actuals which makes it even less trustworthy.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Dark Emperor said:


> Dynamite numbers were easily availble through Showbuzzdaily. Meltzer was not giving out the numbers. Now with Showbuzz gone, hes one of the first to get them but other sources have these numbers. So he's unlikely to lie.
> 
> With PPV, its only him and he always gives estimates rather than actuals which makes it even less trustworthy.


Well, but he was the only one that told this weeks rating til the moment. So, you shouldn´t believe in them too. You can´t believe in him only when pleases you.


----------



## Mike E

The show came on at 10pm Friday night, of course the ratings were going to be low. Bet the DVR numbers went up drastically. I watch live every week, but even I watched on DVR. Not staying up till midnight to watch, and I'm sure many did the same.


----------



## qntntgood

Chan Hung said:


> 510,000? So 300,00 or so fans aren't as loyal as we thought? lol


Those numbers will go back up when they return to their regular time, and then they will fall again.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Yes, the rating sucks, but it IS in a horrible timeslot. I'd be burnt out on wrestling after a 2 hour Smackdown if I watched both. I watched the playoffs instead.*


----------



## Mr316

It’s not JUST the timeslot. They need to stop putting too many “talents” that aren’t ready for TV. It’s turning many people off. Nobody is gonna tune in on a Friday night at 10 pm to watch jobbers. 

I praised the PPV last night. I thought it was great but Dynamite needs to be more exciting especially now they’re getting ready to hit the road again.


----------



## yeahright2

Okay. it took a while, but we finally have ratings for Fridays episode of Dynamite.
I believe it´s their worst number ever? Of course the time slot didn´t help, but their weak card -which was a go home show I might add, didn´t help them at all.

AEW Ratings prediction game

The person who came closest was off by 36K. Give a round of applause to @NamelessJobber


----------



## Prosper

I don’t think I’ll really be paying much attention to cable ratings until they get back to Wednesday’s. Which from the looks of it won’t be until July. 10pm on a Friday is a death slot. 500K would be fine for Rampage but for Dynamite that’s an anomaly and I won’t put much stock into that.

With Rampage coming though I’m fully expecting Dynamite to be potent and more on the elite level if you will, with Rampage being more so to showcase mid card to lower tier talent. They got a deep roster and August is the time to start to separate the elite players on the roster from the rest.


----------



## Ger

I am shocked by this low number!!


----------



## holy

If they indeed can't get their normal timeslot back regularly until July, that's a bit of a problem. It might train some of the 800K usual viewers to just DVR the show and watch it later instead of watching it live, or to watch the show a different way altogether. It could be a habit-breaker for many that used to watch the show every Wednesday.

But yes, the jobber-filled Sunday Night Heat show they put on last Friday certainly didn't help matters.


----------



## bdon

You mean 10pm on a Friday night for a show geared at younger, more fun crowds did bad in ratings? Color me shocked.

In other news, we’ve landed on the moon!


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

* I will reiterate my point from 2 weeks ago. AEW has to stop overloading single cards and spread out the marquee matchups. This is the reason you see completely awful cards after great shows, because they have nothing left and don't use DQ's or do rematches, even in situations where they make sense. This leaves us stuck with Dark jobbers off the street taking up television time for what could be entertaining segments. In general, they need to stop focusing on stuffing matches in shows and learn to build stories to make us care about eventual matches. *


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Not surprising..Friday people out and about doing stuff .we live in the age of DVR and streaming so many can watch whenever they want


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> I don’t think I’ll really be paying much attention to cable ratings until they get back to Wednesday’s. Which from the looks of it won’t be until July. 10pm on a Friday is a death slot. 500K would be fine for Rampage but for Dynamite that’s an anomaly and I won’t put much stock into that.
> 
> With Rampage coming though I’m fully expecting Dynamite to be potent and more on the elite level if you will, with Rampage being more so to showcase mid card to lower tier talent. They got a deep roster and August is the time to start to separate the elite players on the roster from the rest.


Let's bet a virtual 10k that by the end of the year Rampage is either a continuation of Dynamite and not really a space for the unused (my prediction) or your prediction.


----------



## RapShepard

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> * I will reiterate my point from 2 weeks ago. AEW has to stop overloading single cards and spread out the marquee matchups. This is the reason you see completely awful cards after great shows, because they have nothing left and don't use DQ's or do rematches, even in situations where they make sense. This leaves us stuck with Dark jobbers off the street taking up television time for what could be entertaining segments. In general, they need to stop focusing on stuffing matches in shows and learn to build stories to make us care about eventual matches. *


Honestly I think they should stop announcing Dynamite cards in general. Sure if you got a big match up announce that as bait. But giving up the entire card gives people the ability to prejudge the show. Had they not announced this card folk at least have a reason to tune in because who knows what's going to happen.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Seems like even the most negative fans overrate the performance of AEW. Most people don't expect them to do this badly everytime. But they keep shocking us. This is concerning. 



RapShepard said:


> Honestly I think they should stop announcing Dynamite cards in general. Sure if you got a big match up announce that as bait. But giving up the entire card gives people the ability to prejudge the show. Had they not announced this card and folk seen it was meh. Then folk at least have a reason to tune in because who knows what's going to happen.


Yep. That is why during the Monday Night Wars there was a "anything can happen" vibe on Nitro and Raw and it made the shows a must-see event. AEW are trying to announce their matches like it's a MMA card PPV card and that makes little sense.


----------



## RapShepard

Wolf Mark said:


> Yep. That is why during the Monday Night Wars there was a "anything can happen" vibe on Nitro and Raw and it made the shows a must-see event. AEW are trying to announce their matches like it's a MMA card PPV card and that makes little sense.


Yeah I get it's one of the sporting elements they want to add. But this is when you have to let the storytelling nature of wrestling take precedence. Then it allows for in show booking for some stuff. Oh you booked Omega and a low card face to argue backstage. Well guess what now you're getting an ass kicking from the champ later.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Yikes but once again.. this is not surprising. AEW has taken its fans for granted, and now its starting to appear that they aren't as loyal as once thought.

Also, 10 PM is not that bad of a time slot... The third hour of Raw is on every Monday and it draws 3 times that. They also had shows like Miz and Mirs and Straight Up Steve Austin start at 11 PM and still draw better than 500,000.


----------



## Chan Hung

RapShepard said:


> Honestly I think they should stop announcing Dynamite cards in general. Sure if you got a big match up announce that as bait. But giving up the entire card gives people the ability to prejudge the show. Had they not announced this card folk at least have a reason to tune in because who knows what's going to happen.


I kind of agree. Especially if we take last weeks lackluster lame matchups..instead they should just do basic teases like:

What will happen next week between Inner Circle and Pinnacle?
Will we see Miro continue destruction?
Etc..Stuff like above..just general tease rather than

Miro vs Dante Martin


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Honestly I think they should stop announcing Dynamite cards in general. Sure if you got a big match up announce that as bait. But giving up the entire card gives people the ability to prejudge the show. Had they not announced this card folk at least have a reason to tune in because who knows what's going to happen.


*I agree, I said the same:*


BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *This card screams "why is this happening and why do I care?" We don't need marquee matchups every week, but we also don't need shitty matches when there aren't marquee matches. Just announce 2-3 decent matches and fill the rest up with segments, promos, and video packages.
> 
> They also need to add an element of spontaneity by creating matches out of segments that get heated instead of announcing 5 to 7 matches a week in advance. They hurt their own viewership by doing this. People won't even give the show a chance because the card looks like s***. The only thing I'm interested in is Jade's open challenge.*


* The draw of the Monday Night Wars was the spontaneity. We never knew what to expect on either show. AEW tells us straight up when we don't need to watch because Tony is so obsessed with announcing every match in advance and having each end in pinfall or submission. This is why when we see 5 jobbers on the card, we know there's not even a chance of a fuck finish since they don't do DQs that lead to other angles, thus it's not worth watching.*


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Jesus that's a terrible number, but it was to be expected.


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> Let's bet a virtual 10k that by the end of the year Rampage is either a continuation of Dynamite and not really a space for the unused (my prediction) or your prediction.


I'll take it lol, not saying that mid-card talent can't be on Dynamite but I do see it happening less often


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prosper said:


> I don’t think I’ll really be paying much attention to cable ratings until they get back to Wednesday’s. Which from the looks of it won’t be until July. 10pm on a Friday is a death slot. 500K would be fine for Rampage but for Dynamite that’s an anomaly and I won’t put much stock into that.
> 
> With Rampage coming though I’m fully expecting Dynamite to be potent and more on the elite level if you will, with Rampage being more so to showcase mid card to lower tier talent. They got a deep roster and August is the time to start to separate the elite players on the roster from the rest.


*Can you admit the show structuring is bad too? They were losing hundreds of thousands of viewers before the move to Friday.*


----------



## DammitChrist

RapShepard said:


> Honestly I think they should stop announcing Dynamite cards in general. Sure if you got a big match up announce that as bait. But giving up the entire card gives people the ability to prejudge the show. Had they not announced this card folk at least have a reason to tune in because who knows what's going to happen.


Yea, I was thinking about your idea earlier over the past couple of weeks.

If they KNOW that they'll be booking their talents in the upper card against lowcard opponents, then it'd be best just to advertise their bigger names in advance.

For example, instead of announcing Kenny Omega vs Luther on Dynamite; just advertise it as "Kenny Omega is in acton this upcoming Wednesday (or Friday)."

Instead of announcing Jon Moxley vs Serpentico on Dynamite; just hype it up as "Jon Moxley is in action this upcoming week."

I doubt more fans will notice a weak card if they just take this approach instead.

They deserve more viewers for a good product anyway.


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> Yea, I was thinking about your idea earlier over the past couple of weeks.
> 
> If they KNOW that they'll be booking their talents in the upper card against lowcard opponents, then it'd be best just to advertise their bigger names in advance.
> 
> For example, instead of announcing Kenny Omega vs Luther on Dynamite; just advertise it as "Kenny Omega is in acton this upcoming Wednesday (or Friday)."
> 
> Instead of announcing Jon Moxley vs Serpentico on Dynamite; just hype it up as "Jon Moxley is in action this upcoming week."
> 
> I doubt more fans will notice a weak card if they just take this approach instead.
> 
> They deserve more viewers for a good product anyway.


Yeah that works too, announce big matches like a planned title match or number 1 contender match. Or stars in action. But no need to say "we'll waste your time with Kenny murdering Mike Mikenson" beforehand.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

This is pretty cool


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1399484058996920322


----------



## .christopher.

Botchy SinCara said:


> Not surprising..Friday people out and about doing stuff .we live in the age of DVR and streaming so many can watch whenever they want


Yet SmackDown got over a million more viewers, and that's still considered a terrible rating for them.


----------



## thorn123

oh dear ... my cancel sense is tingling 

hope it's just an itch


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

.christopher. said:


> Yet SmackDown got over a million more viewers, and that's still considered a terrible rating for them.


*Yeah, Smackdown dropped 500 k since Sasha went on vacation yet still hit 1.7. If you hate WWE and only watch AEW, there's no excuse for a 300 k drop.*


----------



## Han Popo

There’s always excuses so who cares.


----------



## fabi1982

Prosper said:


> I'll take it lol, not saying that mid-card talent can't be on Dynamite but I do see it happening less often


But with what talent pool do you do Dynamite then to not have matches for the second or third time, by end of 2021? This is what AEW always tries to do is to stay fresh. When you pull out those midcarders and just have "the top people" on Dynamite this will get lame fast, as you can see on WWE TV. And Dynamite doesnt have the depth of a main talent roster like WWE.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

..


.christopher. said:


> Yet SmackDown got over a million more viewers, and that's still considered a terrible rating for them.


SD is a well established brand and in its normal slot at 7 pm a thing after 9 is a death slot on Fridays and Saturdays


----------



## Danielallen1410

People need to understand there is a difference between a reason and an excuse.


----------



## Klitschko

That's low. They have moved spots before for a bit, but this is pretty bad. Dynamite is better then anything WWE gives us currently and I enjoy them a lot, but its sad to say that they have lost 700k viewers in a couple of weeks since going unopposed.


----------



## 3venflow

Meltz on DON:

“Right now it’s looking like the second biggest show they ever done. It won’t beat Revolution, but the second-biggest show they did which did 120,000 buys was the Double or Nothing last year with the first Stadium Stampede. This one, as far American streaming numbers, it’s 12% up from last year.”

So 120k + 12% = around 134,500 PPV buys in America.


----------



## rbl85

3venflow said:


> Meltz on DON:
> 
> “Right now it’s looking like the second biggest show they ever done. It won’t beat Revolution, but the second-biggest show they did which did 120,000 buys was the Double or Nothing last year with the first Stadium Stampede. This one, as far American streaming numbers, it’s 12% up from last year.”
> 
> So 120k + 12% = around *134,500 PPV buys in America.*


No world wide.


----------



## 3venflow

Well, he said 'as far as American streaming numbers', so I assumed he was using American data there. Whatever the case, another PPV success.


----------



## Klitschko

So is Double or Nothing their Wrestlemania like show? If not, they should think about adding in a big mega show like that. They certainly have a roster to give us a great card with a lot of star power.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> No world wide.


Fite doesn’t release their numbers - so most likely just USA (and maybe Canada) for those numbers


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> Meltz on DON:
> 
> “Right now it’s looking like the second biggest show they ever done. It won’t beat Revolution, but the second-biggest show they did which did 120,000 buys was the Double or Nothing last year with the first Stadium Stampede. This one, as far American streaming numbers, it’s 12% up from last year.”
> 
> So 120k + 12% = around 134,500 PPV buys in America.


Is he speaking Revolution from this year? If so that means that main event really did turn some off from buying.


----------



## CovidFan

RapShepard said:


> Is he speaking Revolution from this year? If so that means that main event really did turn some off from buying.


Sure some didn't buy after the bomb of an ending at the last ppv as well.


----------



## Dark Emperor

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Fite doesn’t release their numbers - so most likely just USA (and maybe Canada) for those numbers


It's always been worldwide when he reports AEW buys. He doesnt seperate the numbers as they will look less impressive.

AEW aint drawing 130k+ PPV's in USA at $60 a pop. But again with Meltzer he likes to be vague.

Mentions USA numbers up 12% but no mention of if they international numbers were up or down. I assume it is down which is the only reason he singled out USA numbers....


----------



## DammitChrist

Danielallen1410 said:


> People need to understand there is a difference between a reason and an excuse.


It's easy to dismiss good reasons as "excuses" if it goes against flawed arguments.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> This is pretty cool
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1399484058996920322


HHH was trending around the same time as Cody. Guess why that is…


----------



## CovidFan

nvm possibly mistaken


----------



## Prosper

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Can you admit the show structuring is bad too? They were losing hundreds of thousands of viewers before the move to Friday.*


Not sure what you mean by bad show structuring. You mean how the women's match is mostly always in the same spot or Dynamite always starting with a match and never a promo?



fabi1982 said:


> But with what talent pool do you do Dynamite then to not have matches for the second or third time, by end of 2021? This is what AEW always tries to do is to stay fresh. When you pull out those midcarders and just have "the top people" on Dynamite this will get lame fast, as you can see on WWE TV. And Dynamite doesnt have the depth of a main talent roster like WWE.


I mean they can still have mid-carders on the show and rotate, I'm just saying that the elite talent can now have more character development and storylines can be fleshed out more with the 2nd show. They can still have the elite talent have matches with mid-carders but I'm expecting storylines to be more focused on the upper echelon if that makes sense.


----------



## rbl85

Prosper said:


> Not sure what you mean by bad show structuring. You mean how the women's match is mostly always in the same spot or Dynamite always starting with a match and *never a promo?*
> 
> 
> 
> I mean they can still have mid-carders on the show and rotate, I'm just saying that the elite talent can now have more character development and storylines can be fleshed out more with the 2nd show. They can still have the elite talent have matches with mid-carders but I'm expecting storylines to be more focused on the upper echelon if that makes sense.


Promo don't do good in the ratings unless it's Jericho or Mox


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prosper said:


> Not sure what you mean by bad show structuring. You mean how the women's match is mostly always in the same spot or Dynamite always starting with a match and never a promo?


*Nah, the whole announcing 6 jobber matches a week in advance. *


----------



## Dr. Middy

I think that could be remedied if they just maybe announce a couple bigger matches or segments with upper midcarder types. I mean it's real nice to have the entire card ahead of time pretty much, but there's also a higher chance that it could turn people off from watching too if every card isn't loaded. You could have someone who has followed AEW go "Hmm, this show doesn't have as many people I want to see, I'll skip it this week," which you don't want.

So I'd say they should usually have a couple big segments/matches to use to carry each show, and ONLY announce those ahead of time. I'd also sandwich the show too, lead off with a match/segment with a star or somebody noteable, and close the same way.


----------



## Shock Street

RapShepard said:


> Is he speaking Revolution from this year? If so that means that main event really did turn some off from buying.


Revolution 2021 ended up being the first one I skipped since Dynamite started, but it did in fact cement that I was going to be streaming DoN 2021 as well. DoN was great (I will mention I have never seen a PPV outside of AEW, before my taste gets rekt), so they have convinced me to get the next one if the card is interesting.


----------



## fabi1982

Prosper said:


> Not sure what you mean by bad show structuring. You mean how the women's match is mostly always in the same spot or Dynamite always starting with a match and never a promo?
> 
> 
> 
> I mean they can still have mid-carders on the show and rotate, I'm just saying that the elite talent can now have more character development and storylines can be fleshed out more with the 2nd show. They can still have the elite talent have matches with mid-carders but I'm expecting storylines to be more focused on the upper echelon if that makes sense.


Question stays why they need a second show to have „more“ character developement?  I am still not sure what is the best way to work with these two shows. Lets talk in October when we have a clear view.


----------



## yeahright2

fabi1982 said:


> Question stays why they need a second show to have „more“ character developement?  I am still not sure what is the best way to work with these two shows. Lets talk in October when we have a clear view.


If it´s instead of "character development" on Dark, I´m all for it.. Wouldn´t be surprised if it ended up being like WWE´s Main Event though, but like you said, we´ll have to wait and see.


----------



## RapShepard

Shock Street said:


> Revolution 2021 ended up being the first one I skipped since Dynamite started, but it did in fact cement that I was going to be streaming DoN 2021 as well. DoN was great *(I will mention I have never seen a PPV outside of AEW, before my taste gets rekt)*, so they have convinced me to get the next one if the card is interesting.


With the Carl from ATHF pic I'd assume you were at least around my age of late 20s lol. How happen you'd never seen PPVs before? Did you recently get into wrestling or no means to buy or steal them growing up?


----------



## Prosper

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Nah, the whole announcing 6 jobber matches a week in advance. *


Yeah they can do better at that and just say this or that talent is "in action" to keep the mystery.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prosper said:


> Yeah they can do better at that and just say this or that talent is "in action" to keep the mystery.


*The funny thing is they do that perfectly with the women, as well as squashes, but male jobbers go a full 15 minutes with top talent.*


----------



## Prosper

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *The funny thing is they do that perfectly with the women, as well as squashes, but male jobbers go a full 15 minutes with top talent.*


They've gotten better with that, jobber matches have ended a lot quicker ever since the whole Cody/Peter Avalon debacle.


----------



## Shock Street

RapShepard said:


> With the Carl from ATHF pic I'd assume you were at least around my age of late 20s lol. How happen you'd never seen PPVs before? Did you recently get into wrestling or no means to buy or steal them growing up?


I'm 29 so I may even be older!

I wasn't allowed to watch wrestling until I was a teenager (plus we were poor), so I maybe caught like half an episode of RAW every month or two, and to even do that I had to be at either my Dads or Grandparents while it was on because my Moms house _didn't even have the channel_. So there were a few blockers. Most of my wrassling exposure ended up being from games and friends. 

Once I was allowed to watch, I wasn't able to get into it for whatever reason. I think it was a mix of not liking Cena and wrestling just being "uncool" at my High School. Then I forgot wrestling existed until my friend asked me to watch the 2nd episode of Dynamite with him, and I've watched almost every Dynamite since.

The only reason I don't go back and watch old PPVs is because I feel a lot will be lost on me unless I watch all the episodes building up to them too, and that is a tremendous time commitment.

*TL;DR, poor and not allowed as a kid, then I didn't bother as a teen or adult until I was asked to.*


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prosper said:


> They've gotten better with that, jobber matches have ended a lot quicker ever since the whole Cody/Peter Avalon debacle.


*I just watched Joey Janela beat the s*** out of Hangman Adam Page on YouTube.*


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> With the Carl from ATHF pic I'd assume you were at least around my age of late 20s lol. How happen you'd never seen PPVs before? Did you recently get into wrestling or no means to buy or steal them growing up?


*Did your grandma bootleg them for you on blank VHS tapes too? 😂*


----------



## Prized Fighter

Shock Street said:


> I'm 29 so I may even be older!
> 
> I wasn't allowed to watch wrestling until I was a teenager (plus we were poor), so I maybe caught like half an episode of RAW every month or two, and to even do that I had to be at either my Dads or Grandparents while it was on because my Moms house _didn't even have the channel_. So there were a few blockers. Most of my wrassling exposure ended up being from games and friends.
> 
> Once I was allowed to watch, I wasn't able to get into it for whatever reason. I think it was a mix of not liking Cena and wrestling just being "uncool" at my High School. Then I forgot wrestling existed until my friend asked me to watch the 2nd episode of Dynamite with him, and I've watched almost every Dynamite since.
> 
> The only reason I don't go back and watch old PPVs is because I feel a lot will be lost on me unless I watch all the episodes building up to them too, and that is a tremendous time commitment.
> 
> *TL;DR, poor and not allowed as a kid, then I didn't bother as a teen or adult until I was asked to.*


This is interesting. As someone that didn't watch that much when you were younger, how do you feel when AEW makes references to the past? Is it confusing, shrug worthy or does it make you look it up?


----------



## Prosper

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I just watched Joey Janela beat the s*** out of Hangman Adam Page on YouTube.*


Lol yeah that was a little much, I don't foresee his contract being renewed honestly


----------



## rbl85

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I just watched Joey Janela beat the s*** out of Hangman Adam Page on YouTube.*


What ?


----------



## ProjectGargano

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1399867649580879874
526K. It was a little more than the 500k reported initially. Still the lowest rating in AEW history.


----------



## rbl85

ProjectGargano said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1399867649580879874
> 526K. It was a little more than the 500k reported initially. Still the lowest rating in AEW history.


Comparing a 10pm show with an 8mp show is stupid.

It's like comparing a smackdown show on FOX with a smackdown on FS1, it makes no sense.

We should only compare that show with other 10pm shows.


----------



## ProjectGargano

rbl85 said:


> Comparing a 10pm show with an 8mp show is stupid.
> 
> It's like comparing a smackdown show on FOX with a smackdown on FS1, it makes no sense.
> 
> We should only compare that show with other 10pm shows.


I didn't compared anything. Only related the facts. 😉


----------



## rbl85

ProjectGargano said:


> I didn't compared anything. Only related the facts. 😉


I wasn't necessarily talking about you  

By the way Meltzer said that the first hour did way better than the second, it's a good indication for rampage.


----------



## Shock Street

Prized Fighter said:


> This is interesting. As someone that didn't watch that much when you were younger, how do you feel when AEW makes references to the past? Is it confusing, shrug worthy or does it make you look it up?


I probably don't even notice some of them. Some I do and have to look it up. I dont mind if they dont do it too often.

What I really dont like is when they assume I know people outside of AEW, like when Kenta showed up and Excalibur just kept screaming his name instead of explaining who Kenta is.


----------



## rbl85

Shock Street said:


> I probably don't even notice some of them. Some I do and have to look it up. I dont mind if they dont do it too often.
> 
> What I really dont like is when they assume I know people outside of AEW, like when Kenta showed up and Excalibur just kept screaming his name instead of explaining who Kenya is.


Kenya is an african country. 

No need to thank me.


----------



## yeahright2

So I´m reading the official ratings ended at 526K.. Doesn´t change the winner of the ratings prediction anyway.


----------



## Mr316

I took a look at the ticket sales for the shows in Miami and Texas and man...not good at all. So many seats available. Looks like they didn’t even sell 25% for Miami so far.


----------



## Mr316

.


----------



## RapShepard

Shock Street said:


> I'm 29 so I may even be older!
> 
> I wasn't allowed to watch wrestling until I was a teenager (plus we were poor), so I maybe caught like half an episode of RAW every month or two, and to even do that I had to be at either my Dads or Grandparents while it was on because my Moms house _didn't even have the channel_. So there were a few blockers. Most of my wrassling exposure ended up being from games and friends.
> 
> Once I was allowed to watch, I wasn't able to get into it for whatever reason. I think it was a mix of not liking Cena and wrestling just being "uncool" at my High School. Then I forgot wrestling existed until my friend asked me to watch the 2nd episode of Dynamite with him, and I've watched almost every Dynamite since.
> 
> The only reason I don't go back and watch old PPVs is because I feel a lot will be lost on me unless I watch all the episodes building up to them too, and that is a tremendous time commitment.
> 
> *TL;DR, poor and not allowed as a kid, then I didn't bother as a teen or adult until I was asked to.*


Nah similar age I just hit 29 last Thursday. I only got to catch PPVs back in the day because we had one of those old scrambler boxes, shit came in handy. I can feel the wrestling ban though, I was allowed to watch WCW always, but I had to sneak and watch WWF the first few years I got into wrestling. Luckily they were one channel apart so going back and forth wasn't an issue. 

Games were definitely the shit though. I got so many memories with my cousins playing wrestling games from the N64 and GameCube. But yeah wrestling was definitely uncool by high school. But that was just apart of what I did at that point, to the point if friends were over when it was on, that's what we're watching for now lol. Idc if it's your house lol


----------



## ProjectGargano

Mr316 said:


> I took a look at the ticket sales for the shows in Miami and Texas and man...not good at all. So many seats available. Looks like they didn’t even sell 25% for Miami so far.


Cedar Park is almost sold out (almost 3500 at the moment) and Miami opened the new wave of seats days ago because until that they only opened a percentage of the seats because Covid, but they sold out that percentage (i think 2100 sold) and then opened all the seats. Garland has 3000 sold at the moment.

Not bad at all. Given that they have more than a month till the shows.


----------



## validreasoning

rbl85 said:


> Comparing a 10pm show with an 8mp show is stupid.
> 
> It's like comparing a smackdown show on FOX with a smackdown on FS1, it makes no sense.
> 
> We should only compare that show with other 10pm shows.


FS1 is a channel nobody watches so that comparison doesn't work sorry. 

AEW didn't move to a channel with 1/4 the prime time audience, it remained on TNT albeit on different day and time.


----------



## French Connection

validreasoning said:


> FS1 is a channel nobody watches so that comparison doesn't work sorry.
> 
> AEW didn't move to a channel with 1/4 the prime time audience, it remained on TNT albeit on different day and time.



Ok, I don't want to look for it, but here, you got a part of your answer.
Then, you can have a look at it.


----------



## NathanMayberry

RapShepard said:


> Nah similar age I just hit 29 last Thursday. I only got to catch PPVs back in the day because we had one of those old scrambler boxes, shit came in handy. I can feel the wrestling ban though, I was allowed to watch WCW always, but I had to sneak and watch WWF the first few years I got into wrestling. Luckily they were one channel apart so going back and forth wasn't an issue.
> 
> Games were definitely the shit though. I got so many memories with my cousins playing wrestling games from the N64 and GameCube. But yeah wrestling was definitely uncool by high school. But that was just apart of what I did at that point, to the point if friends were over when it was on, that's what we're watching for now lol. Idc if it's your house lol


Holy shit we’re all the same age. May 1992 borns unite!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## .christopher.

I had a gander at the first pages of this thread and, man, so many pointless bans. Hardly any of them justified, and it's made an already slow forum glacier paced.


----------



## VIP86

Man, every time i check this thread i find a worse number than the week before
since the first unopposed episode the arrow is pointing DOWN









from 1.2 million to 500,000
i guess those 700,000 lost viewers are all Haters who don't understand wrestling and want AEW to fail 🤷‍♂️


----------



## French Connection

VIP86 said:


> from 1.2 million to 500,000
> i guess those 700,000 lost viewers are all Haters who don't understand wrestling and want AEW to fail 🤷‍♂️


I enjoy AEW, but I will never watch a wrestling show on Friday because I prefer to go out.


----------



## VIP86

French Connection said:


> I enjoy AEW, but I will never watch a wrestling show on Friday because I prefer to go out.


It's 100% fine if you enjoy it
But still 700000 people choose not to stick around Since they've gone unopposed


----------



## DammitChrist

VIP86 said:


> It's 100% fine if you enjoy it
> But still 700000 people choose not to stick around Since they've gone unopposed


In all fairness, you don’t really represent those 700,000 fans who weren’t available to watch late on Friday nights.


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> In all fairness, you don’t really represent those 700,000 fans who weren’t available to watch late on Friday nights.


just like you don't represent AEW's PR department ?
it still doesn't change the fact that 700000 people choose not to stick around
they weren't ping-pong fans who happened to mistakenly watch the show
they were pro wrestling fans who didn't find a show booked by the booker of the year interesting
mind-blowing, isn't it


----------



## RapShepard

NathanMayberry said:


> Holy shit we’re all the same age. May 1992 borns unite!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Unite lol


----------



## DammitChrist

VIP86 said:


> just like you don't represent AEW's PR department ?
> it still doesn't change the fact that 700000 people choose not to stick around
> they weren't ping-pong fans who happened to mistakenly watch the show
> they were pro wrestling fans who didn't find a show booked by the booker of the year interesting
> mind-blowing, isn't it


Except for the fact that the show IS interesting and consistently entertaining.


----------



## yeahright2

DammitChrist said:


> Except for the fact that the show IS interesting and consistently entertaining.


That´s an opinion, not a fact.


----------



## DammitChrist

yeahright2 said:


> That´s an opinion, not a fact.


It’s a fact that more fans generally enjoy the show


----------



## Prosper

VIP86 said:


> It's 100% fine if you enjoy it
> But still 700000 people choose not to stick around Since they've gone unopposed


How do you know this? Because they didn't watch live?


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> Except for the fact that the show IS interesting and consistently entertaining.


well, let's do the math since numbers don't really lie
1.2 million the first unopposed episode
500,000 now
which means 700,000 lost
which number is bigger 500K or 700K ??
these two numbers say the people who didn't find it interesting are more than the people who still find it interesting
not my opinion, these are just pure numbers

since i don't give or accept excuses from WWE
i won't give or accept excuses from AEW either


----------



## VIP86

Prosper said:


> How do you know this? Because they didn't watch live?


i'll save you the time since i know where are you going with this
DVR doesn't matter nearly as much
since you can skip any advertisements


----------



## ProjectGargano

VIP86 said:


> well, let's do the math since numbers don't really lie
> 1.2 million the first unopposed episode
> 500,000 now
> which means 700,000 lost
> which number is bigger 500K or 700K ??
> these two numbers say the people who didn't find it interesting are more than the people who still find it interesting
> not my opinion, these are just pure numbers
> 
> since i don't give or accept excuses from WWE
> i won't give or accept excuses from AEW either


Why are you comparing their normal slot with Friday 22h-24h? You should compare it with the last times that they went on that slot, which had a decrease too btw


----------



## VIP86

ProjectGargano said:


> Why are you comparing their normal slot with Friday 22h-24h? You should compare it with the last times that they went on that slot, which had a decrease too btw


like i said, no excuses for either companies
but even if i used the last wednesday number
the decrease would be still more than 400K
that's nearly as much as the people watching now
again not my opinion (since everything is subjective), just pure numbers


----------



## Prosper

VIP86 said:


> i'll save you the time since i know where are you going with this
> DVR doesn't matter nearly as much
> since you can skip any advertisements


You said that they lost their audience though. Losing an audience due to a show that isn't watchable is vastly different form losing an audience due to things out of the company's control. All I ask is that people distinguish the two and stop acting like AEW is chasing their audience away when that certainly is not the case. Its not like their killing puppies on TV.


----------



## VIP86

Prosper said:


> You said that they lost their audience though. Losing an audience due to a show that isn't watchable is vastly different form losing an audience due to things out of the company's control. All I ask is that people distinguish the two and stop acting like AEW is chasing their audience away when that certainly is not the case. Its not like their killing puppies on TV.


the numbers say this, not me
i'm not the one who's responsible of counting the viewers
and since these are official numbers and not my own invention
if you want to argue their validity, contact the people at Nielsen ratings


----------



## rbl85

Prosper said:


> You said that they lost their audience though. Losing an audience due to a show that isn't watchable is vastly different form losing an audience due to things out of the company's control. All I ask is that people distinguish the two and stop acting like AEW is chasing their audience away when that certainly is not the case. Its not like their killing puppies on TV.


Ignore that guy, don't lose your time.


----------



## VIP86

Truth stings
Booker of the year cult can't handle it


----------



## RapShepard

The next big question is will they be able to bring that viewership up since they'll be on that night for a month. (Right?)


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> The next big question is will they be able to bring that viewership up since they'll be on that night for a month. (Right?)


That's a good question


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> The next big question is will they be able to bring that viewership up since they'll be on that night for a month. (Right?)


good question - they’ll need to put on bangers and not half-ass it

i think they’re gonna half-ass it / since they’ll tape a few

don’t get me wrong - a C+ aew show is still 90% better than everything else

but C+ is C+


----------



## ProjectGargano

RapShepard said:


> The next big question is will they be able to bring that viewership up since they'll be on that night for a month. (Right?)


Yes, this is the most preoccupying thing about this.


----------



## ProjectGargano

LifeInCattleClass said:


> good question - they’ll need to put on bangers and not half-ass it
> 
> i think they’re gonna half-ass it / since they’ll tape a few
> 
> don’t get me wrong - a C+ aew show is still 90% better than everything else
> 
> but C+ is C+


I think they will only come back to Wednesdays 30th of June, that is the last program before they go on tour.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ProjectGargano said:


> I think they will only come back to Wednesdays 30th of June, that is the last program before they go on tour.


we’ll definitely won‘t get any shock debuts or massive title changes cause spoilers

match-heavy 3 weeks?


----------



## ProjectGargano

LifeInCattleClass said:


> we’ll definitely won‘t get any shock debuts or massive title changes cause spoilers
> 
> match-heavy 3 weeks?





LifeInCattleClass said:


> we’ll definitely won‘t get any shock debuts or massive title changes cause spoilers
> 
> match-heavy 3 weeks?


This friday is live, then they will tape 2 episodes, and they return to live in a saturday (26th) and then on Wednesday (30th) and 7 of July they start the tour in Miami. So, 5 episodes till Miami...maybe they will slow down a bit in these 3 next episodes and give something important before they start the tour again?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ProjectGargano said:


> This friday is live, then they will tape 2 episodes, and they return to live in a saturday (26th) and then on Wednesday (30th) and 7 of July they start the tour in Miami. So, 5 episodes till Miami...maybe they will slow down a bit in these 3 next episodes and give something important before they start the tour again?


all i know is, the first one live when they are on tour again will be an A+ show


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> good question - they’ll need to put on bangers and not half-ass it
> 
> i think they’re gonna half-ass it / since they’ll tape a few
> 
> don’t get me wrong - a C+ aew show is still 90% better than everything else
> 
> but C+ is C+


They really shouldn't half ass it. While they're certainly in a rough spot. It's kinda hard to ask people to sit through 6 hours of purposeful half-assing and expect no blowback. Especially when fans would be going out of their way to watch. Best move is to try their hardest and reward their fans for sticking with them. 

Hell since Tony opened the door for shots straight from his mouth. He should do a promo on social media about how it's important fans follow Dynamite to Friday, because "unlike the other company we don't take off during the summer. We give you our best effort year round and not just in April". Then go out and prove it. They have their detractors, but AEW clearly has a core that loves them. This is a case where they can rally their troops for support.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> They really shouldn't half ass it. While they're certainly in a rough spot. It's kinda hard to ask people to sit through 6 hours of purposeful half-assing and expect no blowback. Especially when fans would be going out of their way to watch. Best move is to try their hardest and reward their fans for sticking with them.
> 
> Hell since Tony opened the door for shots straight from his mouth. He should do a promo on social media about how it's important fans follow Dynamite to Friday, because "unlike the other company we don't take off during the summer. We give you our best effort year round and not just in April". Then go out and prove it. They have their detractors, but AEW clearly has a core that loves them. This is a case where they can rally their troops for support.


i just don’t know how physically possible it is not to half ass it when you record a couple of episodes in a row on 1day

remember when the did the 4 episode session - first one was great, but by the 3rd one everybody was on their case even though it was all recorded the same day


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i just don’t know how physically possible it is not to half ass it when you record a couple of episodes in a row on 1day
> 
> remember when the did the 4 episode session - first one was great, but by the 3rd one everybody was on their case even though it was all recorded the same day


I'd say don't do it all that quick lol. But time will tell.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

My guess is this week's show will get a higher number. Not even for anything on the card itself, but I think the more weeks in a row they run on a Friday, the higher the number will go up to a point. I think it hits a peak lower than their usual on Wednesday (so let's say goes up to 750-800k - which I think happens in 2-3 weeks), and then from there a normal decline would continue assuming they stayed on Fridays permanently (which isn't the plan afaik).


----------



## 3venflow

RAW was down to 1.4m this week and the third hour did 1.168m. Smackdown is down, AEW is down, everyone is down. This time last year, AEW was doing under 700k quite often too. I imagine ratings will go back up soon for everyone.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

3venflow said:


> RAW was down to 1.4m this week and the third hour did 1.168m. Smackdown is down, AEW is down, everyone is down. This time last year, AEW was doing under 700k quite often too. I imagine ratings will go back up soon for everyone.


Post Mania slump?


----------



## rbl85

Also people are spending more time outside now


----------



## ProjectGargano

3venflow said:


> RAW was down to 1.4m this week and the third hour did 1.168m. Smackdown is down, AEW is down, everyone is down. This time last year, AEW was doing under 700k quite often too. I imagine ratings will go back up soon for everyone.


1.4M for Raw is shocking too.


----------



## taker1986

Lol


----------



## DammitChrist

VIP86 said:


> Truth stings
> Booker of the year cult can't handle it


Stop labeling a passionate group of wrestling fans who want to see a good product succeed.


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> Stop labeling a passionate group of wrestling fans who want to see a good product succeed.


Stop labeling a passionate group of wrestling fans who want to see a good product as "Haters"
Respect is a two way street
if you Respect people opinions and their right to voice it
people will Respect your opinions back
it's not rocket science


----------



## DammitChrist

VIP86 said:


> Stop labeling a passionate group of wrestling fans who want to see a good product as "Haters"
> Respect is a two way street
> if you Respect people opinions and their right to voice it
> people will Respect your opinions back
> it's not rocket science


In all fairness, you haven’t really given me any reason to do so here, so I’m afraid that’s a no to that random advice.


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> you haven’t really given me any reason to do so here


likewise


----------



## NXT Only

VIP86 said:


> It's 100% fine if you enjoy it
> But still 700000 people choose not to stick around Since they've gone unopposed


lol this is a horrible take.


----------



## VIP86

NXT Only said:


> lol this is a horrible take.


Is it a lie ?
Do you have other numbers that says otherwise ?


----------



## La Parka

NXT Only said:


> lol this is a horrible take.


Very in-depth response


----------



## Wolf Mark

rbl85 said:


> Also people are spending more time outside now


Maybe but wrestling has always been weather-proof. During the MNW they were doing humongous ratings during the summer.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prosper said:


> You said that they lost their audience though. Losing an audience due to a show that isn't watchable is vastly different form losing an audience due to things out of the company's control. All I ask is that people distinguish the two and stop acting like AEW is chasing their audience away when that certainly is not the case. Its not like their killing puppies on TV.


*It's both. The timeslot doesn't help, but they've done nothing but lose their audience since going unopposed, and that's not a good sign. It should have been an easy upward trend, but their booking is atrocious and it's finally biting them in the ass.*


----------



## Wolf Mark

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *It's both. The timeslot doesn't help, but they've done nothing but lose their audience since going unopposed, and that's not a good sign. It should have been an easy upward trend, but their booking is atrocious and it's finally biting them in the ass.*


They refuse to adress what they are doing wrong and this happens. TK believe that hiring gazillion guys will help this company. The WWF defeated the mighty WCW with their stacked roster with four people: Austin, Vince, JR and Tyson, basically. With a great concept and tight booking you can do great shows with only a few people.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Wolf Mark said:


> They refuse to adress what they are doing wrong and this happens. TK believe that hiring gazillion guys will help this company. The WWF defeated the mighty WCW with their stacked roster with four people: Austin, Vince, JR and Tyson, basically. With a great concept and tight booking you can do great shows with only a few people.


*Mick Foley winning the title was the turning point. Thanks Tony Schiavone for telling everyone to change the channel 😂*


----------



## Wolf Mark

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Mick Foley winning the title was the turning point. Thanks Tony Schiavone for telling everyone to change the channel 😂*


Well it was early 99. WCW was already done by then. The thing that turned it was the Montreal screw job and Tyson pushing Austin.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Wolf Mark said:


> Well it was early 99. WCW was already done by then. The thing that turned it was the Montreal screw job and Tyson pushing Austin.


*That's not true. WCW was still beating them in ratings.*


----------



## CMPunkRock316

A show airing 2 days and 2 hours later than the usual timeslot and shocked it is down considerably. Air Raw at 10PM Weds and see how it does.


----------



## yeahright2

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *That's not true. WCW was still beating them in ratings.*


Yes, but the people in the business could see the sign on the wall. The fans were just a little behind.


----------



## CovidFan

lol


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## Wolf Mark

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *That's not true. WCW was still beating them in ratings.*


Well if you look at the Legenday "83 Weeks" run, it ended in the spring of 98. Then they started exchaning wins. But by the fall it was all WWF except for two times: The Four Horsemen reunion and Goldberg beating Hogan. But by then the fans had choosen Raw over Nitro.

Even before the finger-poke and the Foley incident, the attendances were down across the board.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Wolf Mark said:


> Well if you look at the Legenday "83 Weeks" run, it ended in the spring of 98. Then they started exchaning wins. But by the fall it was all WWF except for two times: The Four Horsemen reunion and Goldberg beating Hogan. But by then the fans had choosen Raw over Nitro.
> 
> Even before the finger-poke and the Foley incident, the attendances were down across the board.


*Now this is more accurate, and why Vince Russo cannot be blamed for the failure of WCW, especially when he increased the ratings after his arrival.*


----------



## One Shed

Yeah, the end of WCW was Starrcade 1998 when they had Nash pin Goldberg then the FPOD a week later. Foley winning the title that same night was icing on the cake.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Two Sheds said:


> Yeah, the end of WCW was Starrcade 1998 when they had Nash pin Goldberg then the FPOD a week later. Foley winning the title that same night was icing on the cake.


*This is completely true.*


----------



## Wolf Mark

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Now this is more accurate, and why Vince Russo cannot be blamed for the failure of WCW, especially when he increased the ratings after his arrival.*


While WCW was on a falling projection, my issue with Russo is that he turned WCW into an unwatchable mess and chased away a lot of the hardcore WCW fans that had been with them for decades. Cause his style of wrestling was WWF Attitude Era Crash TV and it was too much of a culture clash. Even before Bischoff was fired in the fall of 99, it was still very much WCW. But the moment Russo took charge, it became something completely different overnight. It was unrecognizable. It went from something looking professional to the level of an indy promotion. It looked bad, the storylines were cheesy, there were a lot production mistakes.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Wolf Mark said:


> While WCW was on a falling projection, my issue with Russo is that he turned WCW into an unwatchable mess and chased away a lot of the hardcore WCW fans that had been with them for decades. Cause his style of wrestling was WWF Attitude Era Crash TV and it was too much of a culture clash. Even before Bischoff was fired in the fall of 99, it was still very much WCW. But the moment Russo took charge, it became something completely overnight. It was unrecognizable. It went from something looking professional to the level of an indy promotion. It looked bad, the storylines were cheesy, there were a lot production mistakes.


*I have no problem with that opinion and I would never argue late WCW was good, but I will always argue against Russo being the reason for their downfall, because s*** was unsalvageable way before he got there.*


----------



## Klitschko

Catching up on the last few pages and thinking to myself "huh, and people thought this thread would die when Wood got banned (me included)".


----------



## NXT Only

VIP86 said:


> Is it a lie ?
> Do you have other numbers that says otherwise ?


It lacks analysis. You have to understand that even the biggest fans aren't staying in on a Friday night to watch TV especially with the world opening back up, weather being good, etc...

They didn't lose 700,000 fans, 700,000 didn't decide to not stick around. If this consistently happened in their original time slot then you can make that point but you're simply wrong right now.


----------



## NXT Only

CMPunkRock316 said:


> A show airing 2 days and 2 hours later than the usual timeslot and shocked it is down considerably. Air Raw at 10PM Weds and see how it does.


It's like this with so many things on television, hard to argue with people who will only see it as a failure unfortunately.


----------



## Not Lying

VIP86 said:


> Is it a lie ?
> Do you have other numbers that says otherwise ?


Do you know what context means? or do you ignore that to fit your narrative?


----------



## RainmakerV2

There was no reason to beat Goldberg at that point. Nash says they were chanting Goldberg sucks in the buildings, but I watched quite a few nitros before and after Starrcade and never heard such a thing, not even a tiny smattering of it.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RainmakerV2 said:


> There was no reason to beat Goldberg at that point. Nash says they were chanting Goldberg sucks in the buildings, but I watched quite a few nitros before and after Starrcade and never heard such a thing, not even a tiny smattering of it.


*Because Nash was full of s*** and Goldberg was at his absolute peak.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Klitschko said:


> Catching up on the last few pages and thinking to myself "huh, and people thought this thread would die when Wood got banned (me included)".


it never dies bruh - this thread is like wwe

wwe are bigger than any wrestler/ this thread is bigger than any poster


----------



## Wolf Mark

RainmakerV2 said:


> There was no reason to beat Goldberg at that point. Nash says they were chanting Goldberg sucks in the buildings, but I watched quite a few nitros before and after Starrcade and never heard such a thing, not even a tiny smattering of it.





The Legit DMD said:


> *Because Nash was full of s*** and Goldberg was at his absolute peak.*


I'll say this though is that the moment Goldberg became Champ, we stopped seeing a lot of top guys like Hogan, Savage and so forth. There was almost to nWo presence on Nitro and there were rumours about Hogan quitting wrestling and wanting to be "President". Nitro became pretty damn boring. Looking back, it felt as if a lot of boys in the back, mainly the big stars wanted to sabotage Goldberg's reign.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Well it's nice to know that Wood's absence hasn't prevented this thread from being entertaining. Keep the drama up fellas!!


----------



## yeahright2

AEW is on tonight if anyone should have forgotten..

AEW Ratings prediction game

Will they beat last week?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

yeahright2 said:


> AEW is on tonight if anyone should have forgotten..
> 
> AEW Ratings prediction game
> 
> Will they beat last week?


*I'm gonna say 650 k for the post PPV show.*


----------



## yeahright2

The Legit DMD said:


> *I'm gonna say 650 k for the post PPV show.*


You know there´s a thread for the game, that´s why I did the shameless plug  - The problem with predictions elsewhere but the game thread is that I might miss them.
But it´s noted


----------



## 3venflow

Not too many were made available for tonight.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1396830403370094594
It looks like what is available will be sold out or close enough anyway.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1400795268497432583


----------



## VIP86

NXT Only said:


> It lacks analysis. You have to understand that even the biggest fans aren't staying in on a Friday night to watch TV especially with the world opening back up, weather being good, etc...
> 
> They didn't lose 700,000 fans, 700,000 didn't decide to not stick around. If this consistently happened in their original time slot then you can make that point but you're simply wrong right now.


from 1.2 million to 500,000
700,000 loss
i don't care about your excuses for them
numbers don't lie


----------



## VIP86

The Definition of Technician said:


> Do you know what context means? or do you ignore that to fit your narrative?


the only narrative here is that they lost 700,000
i'm not interested in the flood of excuses for every negative fact

when they changed nights last year before they were unopposed
everyone was celebrating that they got a bigger unopposed number than NXT and ignoring that they also lost viewers back then
and raving about the loyal fans that will follow them anywhere

but now magically the change of nights seems more important than it was before
seems to me that changing the narrative is the speciality of the fanboys


----------



## Not Lying

VIP86 said:


> *the only narrative here is that they lost 700,000*
> i'm not interested in the flood of excuses for every negative fact
> 
> when they changed nights last year before they were unopposed
> everyone was celebrating that they got a bigger unopposed number than NXT and ignoring that they also lost viewers back then
> and raving about the loyal fans that will follow them anywhere
> 
> but now magically the change of nights seems more important than it was before
> seems to me that changing the narrative is the speciality of the fanboys


the only narrative here is that you don't know the meaning of the word "lost".
Most of these people watched elsewhere.


----------



## DammitChrist

VIP86 said:


> the only narrative here is that they lost 700,000
> i'm not interested in the flood of excuses for every negative fact
> 
> when they changed nights last year before they were unopposed
> everyone was celebrating that they got a bigger unopposed number than NXT and ignoring that they also lost viewers back then
> and raving about the loyal fans that will follow them anywhere
> 
> but now magically the change of nights seems more important than it was before
> seems to me that changing the narrative is the speciality of the fanboys


1. Quit labeling the passionate wrestling fans.

2. You're wrong about them "losing 700,000 K viewers," and you're just using the company switching nights to a BAD time slot as a(n ACTUAL) excuse to keep making this bad narrative.

3. I guarantee that there's approximately a million viewers who watch AEW in various platforms anyway at least.


----------



## VIP86

The Definition of Technician said:


> the only narrative here is that you don't know the meaning of the word "lost".
> Most of these people watched elsewhere.


do you have any proof that they watched "elsewhere"
advertisers don't care about this "elsewhere"
we're talking live TV ratings here
don't act like you don't know that


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> 1. Quit labeling the passionate wrestling fans.


i would say the same thing to you
but since i know you have a bad case of projecting everything you do
it won't make a difference


DammitChrist said:


> 2. You're wrong about them "losing 700,000 K viewers," and you're just using the company switching nights to a BAD time slot as a(n ACTUAL) excuse to keep making this bad narrative.


no matter how hard you try to justify it
1.2 million to 500,000
that's 700,000 loss


DammitChrist said:


> 3. I guarantee that there's approximately a million viewers who watch AEW in various platforms anyway at least.


saying "I guarantee" doesn't make it a fact
don't even pretend that advertisers care about DVR or youtube or FITE as much as the live TV

any more weak excuses you want to make ?


----------



## DammitChrist

VIP86 said:


> i would say the same thing to you
> but since i know you have a bad case of projecting everything you do
> it won't make a difference
> 
> no matter how hard you try to justify it
> 1.2 million to 500,000
> that's 700,000 loss
> 
> saying "I guarantee" doesn't make it a fact
> don't even pretend that advertisers care about DVR or youtube or FITE as much as the live TV
> 
> any more weak excuses you want to make ?


Nah, I'm pretty sure that I gave you valid reasons in which you conveniently chose to ignore in order to suit your flawed narrative.

I gave no excuses here too btw.


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, I'm pretty sure that I gave you valid reasons in which you conveniently chose to ignore in order to suit your flawed narrative.
> 
> I gave no excuses here too btw.


nope, the only thing you did is excuses and accusations
you accuse people of labeling and you're the first one to jump and label people as "Haters"
you do one thing and immediately accuse people of doing it
that's called projection
your post history is a proof of that if anyone wants to check
you can't handle any negative post about AEW, everyone sees that
and quickly you resort to ridiculing people opinions thinking that this counts as a valid argument
guess what, nobody cares if your feelings are hurt by the criticisms of a product presented to the public


----------



## DammitChrist

VIP86 said:


> nope, the only thing you did is excuses and accusations


No, I generally give valid reasons and honesty.



> you accuse people of labeling and you're the first one to jump and label people as "Haters"


Nope, I've stopped doing that a while ago whereas you're still guilty of labeling (and falsely accusing me too).

Plus, I don't even say the word, "haters," on here. I don't even LIKE that term.



> you do one thing and immediately accuse people of doing it
> that's called projection


No, that's called (you) lying because I'm not projecting anything. I'm just rationalizing the ratings for the past week.



> your post history is a proof of that if anyone wants to check
> you can't handle any negative post about AEW, everyone sees that


Nah, I'm pretty sure that everyone actually sees that there's a big difference between someone "not being able to handle negative posts about AEW," and me actually calling out nonsense whenever I see it.

I tend to do the latter to balance out the reasonable posts from some of the hyperbolic exaggerations.



> and quickly you resort to ridiculing people opinions thinking that this counts as a valid argument


No, I just call out the nonsensical opinions that are blatantly disguised as "facts."

I don't have a problem with different opinions. Just try not to distort the truth or twist narratives when you give them.



> guess what, nobody cares if your feelings are hurt by the criticisms of a product presented to the public


You cared enough to respond with a lie about them "losing 800 K viewers" (which they didn't), and I'm not the one moaning about an entertaining product that you dislike; but yet I'm somehow the one with my "feelings hurt" :lol


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> No, I generally give valid reasons and honesty.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, I've stopped doing that a while ago whereas you're still guilty of labeling (and falsely accusing me too).
> 
> Plus, I don't even say the word, "haters," on here. I don't even LIKE that term.
> 
> 
> 
> No, that's called (you) lying because I'm not projecting anything. I'm just rationalizing the ratings for the past week.
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, I'm pretty sure that everyone actually sees that there's a big difference between someone "not being able to handle negative posts about AEW," and me actually calling out nonsense whenever I see it.
> 
> I tend to do the latter to balance out the reasonable posts from some of the hyperbolic exaggerations.
> 
> 
> 
> No, I just call out the nonsensical opinions that are blatantly disguised as "facts."
> 
> I don't have a problem with different opinions. Just try not to distort the truth or twist narratives when you give them.
> 
> 
> 
> You cared enough to respond with a lie about them "losing 800 K viewers" (which they didn't), and I'm not the one moaning about an entertaining product that you dislike; but yet I'm somehow the one with my "feelings hurt" :lol


is it just Trolling ?
or you really are Delusional ?
any sane person will take one look at your posts and see how unhinged you become against any criticisms
projection and pathological lying, that's how you deal with criticisms
it's entertaining to watch but sad at the same time
you're obsessed with people who criticize AEW
to bad for you the world doesn't care about your feelings
just deal with it


----------



## DammitChrist

VIP86 said:


> is it just Trolling ?
> or you really are Delusional ?
> any sane person will take one look at your posts and see how unhinged you become against any criticisms
> projection and pathological lying, that's how you deal with criticisms
> it's entertaining to watch but sad at the same time
> you're obsessed with people who criticize AEW
> to bad for you the world doesn't care about your feelings
> just deal with it


Refer back to my previous post  

I'm not going to repeat myself about you failing to understand that I tend to call out questionable takes in calm fashion (which should be well-understood by now), and that your feelings are getting all up in a twist here.

For the record, please stop with the false accusations, and please quit trying to troll me.


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> Refer back to my previous post
> 
> I'm not going to repeat myself about you failing to understand that I tend to call out questionable takes in calm fashion (which should be well-understood by now), and that your feelings are getting all up in a twist here.
> 
> For the record, please stop with the false accusations, and please quit trying to troll me.


stop harassing people that have legitimate criticisms
you're making innocent users feel unwelcomed in the forum
i feel Attacked and insulted by your constant targeting to my free opinions


----------



## VIP86

*i like the username AutumnLeaf








*


----------



## NathanMayberry

VIP86 said:


> projection and pathological lying, that's how you deal with criticisms


This I can personally attest to. Between him and the Prosperous One, I can't tell who is more dishonest.


----------



## VIP86

NathanMayberry said:


> This I can personally attest to. Between him and the Prosperous One, I can't tell who is more dishonest.


one good thing about the internet is that it doesn't forget what people said
a quick search shows if a person is honest or blatantly lying


----------



## ProjectGargano

They will be back on Charlotte (Bojangles Coliseum) for the July 28th episode. Guess who is from Charlotte? 

Tessa Blanchard


----------



## Martyn

What's the ppv number for DON? It would be great if they did over 100k again.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Martyn said:


> What's the ppv number for DON? It would be great if they did over 100k again.


125K i think


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

AutumnLeaf said:


> Yes people predict their demise every week yet they break their own PPV buy rate records all the time.


almost like there is some sort of.... ulterior motive


----------



## Dark Emperor

AutumnLeaf said:


> Yes people predict their demise every week yet they break their own PPV buy rate records all the time.


It didn't break their record whatever that is. Meltzer is the only one that has the numbers so can't be trusted.

What we know for sure is their TV numbers trends downwards, so naturally hard to believe PPVs keeps going up when the only guy that has the numbers is a known diehard Pro AEW guy.


----------



## rbl85

Dark Emperor said:


> It didn't break their record whatever that is. Meltzer is the only one that has the numbers so can't be trusted.
> 
> What we know for sure is their TV numbers trends downwards, so naturally hard to believe PPVs keeps going up when the only guy that has the numbers is a known dishard Pro AEW guy.



All the numbers come from Meltzer even when it's down so shut up.


----------



## ProjectGargano

AutumnLeaf said:


> Early numbers have Dynamite up significantly from last week. SD up slightly.


Where did you seen that?

Edit: I already seen where.


----------



## Dark Emperor

rbl85 said:


> All the numbers come from Meltzer even when it's down so shut up.



Lol sensitive one. It's just a wrestling forum, relax. The TV ratings did not come from Meltzer and can be easily checked.

Meltzer knows no one will ever verify these AEW PPV numbers as they are not a public company. Why have we never heard Tony Khan or anyone else in company bragging about PPV numbers if they are so good like they do when they get a decent rating.

The PPV numbers will never have any credibility until there is verifiable sources. Especially as Meltzer only gives estimates and lumps domestic and International together which vary significantly in costs to consumer.


----------



## Martyn

It sounds like another great number for them. Glad I've added mine order to it as well. 

Either way, I just went trough a couple of pages on this thread and the amount of negativity here is toxic AF.


----------



## DammitChrist

Dark Emperor said:


> Lol sensitive one. It's just a wrestling forum, relax. The TV ratings did not come from Meltzer and can be easily checked.
> 
> Meltzer knows no one will ever verify these AEW PPV numbers as they are not a public company. Why have we never heard Tony Khan or anyone else in company bragging about PPV numbers if they are so good like they do when they get a decent rating.
> 
> The PPV numbers will never have any credibility until there is verifiable sources. Especially as Meltzer only gives estimates and lumps domestic and International together which vary significantly in costs to consumer.


Nah, Dave Meltzer is fairly reliable with the numbers.



NathanMayberry said:


> This I can personally attest to. Between him and the Prosperous One, I can't tell who is more dishonest.


Enough with the baiting and dishonesty. It's pretty clear what you did with that petty attack.


----------



## 3venflow

Still no sign of Showbuzz returning. It seems only they had a real fast way of getting comprehensive data from Nielsen.

Meltzer gets some vague info about ratings quite fast, but not the actual numbers. He called Dynamite's sharp drop last week, but we didn't know the actual numbers for some time after.

'Significant' increase probably means closer to 600k than 500k rather than any massive bump in this Friday night timeslot.


----------



## RapShepard

Martyn said:


> It sounds like another great number for them. Glad I've added mine order to it as well.
> 
> Either way, I just went trough a couple of pages on this thread and the amount of negativity here is toxic AF.


Toxic lol, pointing out ratings isn't toxic.


----------



## DammitChrist

RapShepard said:


> Toxic lol, pointing out ratings isn't toxic.


Nah, he was talking about the blatant dishonesty in the previous 2 pages regarding the doom-and-gloom.

There's still plenty of wrestling fans who tune in to watch the show in various platforms (even on delay).


----------



## 3venflow

Per Brandon Thurston:










All Elite Wrestling’s_ Double or Nothing_ pay-per-view on May 30 likely came just short of the company’s highest gross revenue from a single event. The show drew about $6 million total for AEW and its pay-per-view distributors and sold 115,000 buys on all platforms globally, by our estimate.

The record high is probably still held by the previous pay-per-view event, _Revolution_, which we estimate grossed just under $7 million. That show, on March 7, attracted greater pay-per-view sales but sold fewer tickets with a socially-distanced capacity.

_Double or Nothing_ was held at full capacity at Daily’s Place in Jacksonville, Florida. It sold about 4,700 tickets, generating approximately $300,000, according to the _Wrestling Observer Newsletter_. At the same venue, just 1,150 tickets were sold for _Revolution._

After carriers including FITE, B/R Live, and various cable systems collect the majority of the pay-per-view sales, each of the two events likely netted AEW around $3 million in revenue.

Full breakdowns of our estimates for both events are at the end of this article.

We’re also raising our estimate of the _Revolution _event from 125,000 buys to 135,000. The _Observer_’s recent estimate that _Revolution_ sold 158,000 buys is 10% to 20% high, we were told.

_Double or Nothing_ appears to be AEW’s second-highest-selling pay-per-view in its history. Our estimate of this event and all earlier AEW pay-per-view sales were determined based on information from people with knowledge of the sales.

Merchandise sales estimates of $71,000 for _Double or Nothing_ and $21,000 for _Revolution_ are based on an assumption of $15 and $18 in merchandise revenue per paid attendee, respectively. The average sales per capita for WWE events is about $10, according to public filings. We believe per capita sales for major events like pay-per-views are higher than average and we were told _Revolution _performed better in this area than most AEW pay-per-views. 









AEW Double or Nothing sold an estimated 115,000 pay-per-view buys globally, grossed revenues just short of Revolution - Wrestlenomics


AEW Double or Nothing 2021 sold about 115,000 buys, short of AEW's record high of 135,000 for Revolution in March.




wrestlenomics.com


----------



## ProjectGargano

3venflow said:


> Per Brandon Thurston:
> 
> View attachment 102073
> 
> 
> All Elite Wrestling’s_ Double or Nothing_ pay-per-view on May 30 likely came just short of the company’s highest gross revenue from a single event. The show drew about $6 million total for AEW and its pay-per-view distributors and sold 115,000 buys on all platforms globally, by our estimate.
> 
> The record high is probably still held by the previous pay-per-view event, _Revolution_, which we estimate grossed just under $7 million. That show, on March 7, attracted greater pay-per-view sales but sold fewer tickets with a socially-distanced capacity.
> 
> _Double or Nothing_ was held at full capacity at Daily’s Place in Jacksonville, Florida. It sold about 4,700 tickets, generating approximately $300,000, according to the _Wrestling Observer Newsletter_. At the same venue, just 1,150 tickets were sold for _Revolution._
> 
> After carriers including FITE, B/R Live, and various cable systems collect the majority of the pay-per-view sales, each of the two events likely netted AEW around $3 million in revenue.
> 
> Full breakdowns of our estimates for both events are at the end of this article.
> 
> We’re also raising our estimate of the _Revolution _event from 125,000 buys to 135,000. The _Observer_’s recent estimate that _Revolution_ sold 158,000 buys is 10% to 20% high, we were told.
> 
> _Double or Nothing_ appears to be AEW’s second-highest-selling pay-per-view in its history. Our estimate of this event and all earlier AEW pay-per-view sales were determined based on information from people with knowledge of the sales.
> 
> Merchandise sales estimates of $71,000 for _Double or Nothing_ and $21,000 for _Revolution_ are based on an assumption of $15 and $18 in merchandise revenue per paid attendee, respectively. The average sales per capita for WWE events is about $10, according to public filings. We believe per capita sales for major events like pay-per-views are higher than average and we were told _Revolution _performed better in this area than most AEW pay-per-views.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW Double or Nothing sold an estimated 115,000 pay-per-view buys globally, grossed revenues just short of Revolution - Wrestlenomics
> 
> 
> AEW Double or Nothing 2021 sold about 115,000 buys, short of AEW's record high of 135,000 for Revolution in March.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wrestlenomics.com


Slightly less than what Meltzer reported but still great numbers. What a profit AEW and TK made.


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, he was talking about the blatant dishonesty in the previous 2 pages regarding the doom-and-gloom.
> 
> There's still plenty of wrestling fans who tune in to watch the show in various platforms (even on delay).


Sort of like the dishonesty of you bringing up irrelevant other platforms in the ratings thread lol. Watching it through other means doesn't count for the ratings.

The doom and gloom is silly, and so is the refusal to acknowledge that they aren't trending upwards even without the day and time change.


----------



## yeahright2

ProjectGargano said:


> *Slightly less than what Meltzer reported *but still great numbers. What a profit AEW and TK made.


Meltzer inflating AEW numbers to make them look good? There´s a surprise!
But seriously, yes, it´s a great number. AEW does a lot of things wrong, but selling PPV´s to their fans isn´t one of them..


----------



## VIP86

so Meltzer is caught inflating the recent PPV buy numbers by 10% to 20% 😂 😁🤣
the "reliable" source is not reliable after all ?🤯
i'm shocked, shocked i tell ya 😱


----------



## Dark Emperor

3venflow said:


> Per Brandon Thurston:
> 
> View attachment 102073
> 
> 
> All Elite Wrestling’s_ Double or Nothing_ pay-per-view on May 30 likely came just short of the company’s highest gross revenue from a single event. The show drew about $6 million total for AEW and its pay-per-view distributors and sold 115,000 buys on all platforms globally, by our estimate.
> 
> The record high is probably still held by the previous pay-per-view event, _Revolution_, which we estimate grossed just under $7 million. That show, on March 7, attracted greater pay-per-view sales but sold fewer tickets with a socially-distanced capacity.
> 
> _Double or Nothing_ was held at full capacity at Daily’s Place in Jacksonville, Florida. It sold about 4,700 tickets, generating approximately $300,000, according to the _Wrestling Observer Newsletter_. At the same venue, just 1,150 tickets were sold for _Revolution._
> 
> After carriers including FITE, B/R Live, and various cable systems collect the majority of the pay-per-view sales, each of the two events likely netted AEW around $3 million in revenue.
> 
> Full breakdowns of our estimates for both events are at the end of this article.
> 
> We’re also raising our estimate of the _Revolution _event from 125,000 buys to 135,000. The _Observer_’s recent estimate that _Revolution_ sold 158,000 buys is 10% to 20% high, we were told.
> 
> _Double or Nothing_ appears to be AEW’s second-highest-selling pay-per-view in its history. Our estimate of this event and all earlier AEW pay-per-view sales were determined based on information from people with knowledge of the sales.
> 
> Merchandise sales estimates of $71,000 for _Double or Nothing_ and $21,000 for _Revolution_ are based on an assumption of $15 and $18 in merchandise revenue per paid attendee, respectively. The average sales per capita for WWE events is about $10, according to public filings. We believe per capita sales for major events like pay-per-views are higher than average and we were told _Revolution _performed better in this area than most AEW pay-per-views.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW Double or Nothing sold an estimated 115,000 pay-per-view buys globally, grossed revenues just short of Revolution - Wrestlenomics
> 
> 
> AEW Double or Nothing 2021 sold about 115,000 buys, short of AEW's record high of 135,000 for Revolution in March.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wrestlenomics.com


Thanks for this report, always interested in detailed analysis.

*Interesting. Meltzer reported 158,000 for Revolution where this report shows 135,000. That is a difference of 22,000 which is an over-estimate of 16%. That is a significant difference, but will be brushed under the carpet.*

He also over-estimated the Double or Nothing buys by 10,000.

This report is more believable as it gives a detailed breakdown of everything. It nice to see analysis from a different source for PPV buys at least.


----------



## DammitChrist

Big kudos to Meltzer for being really accurate with the numbers regarding the ppv buyrates  

He wasn't far off at all :bjpenn


----------



## Hitman1987

DammitChrist said:


> Big kudos to Meltzer for being really accurate with the numbers regarding the ppv buyrates
> 
> He wasn't far off at all :bjpenn


Can you provide some evidence please?

I’d like a link to Dave’s numbers and a link to the actual numbers

Then we can compare the difference (if any?)


----------



## DammitChrist

Hitman1987 said:


> Can you provide some evidence please?
> 
> I’d like a link to Dave’s numbers and a link to the actual numbers
> 
> Then we can compare the difference (if any?)


Dude, the evidence was already presented up above 😂

135 K isn’t far off at all from the original 158 K; so yes, he’s still fairly accurate here. It’s not precise, but it’s still an accurate number.

Some of you are acting like he reported 200 K, but yet it only turned out to be 45 K for the ppv.


----------



## Hitman1987

DammitChrist said:


> Dude, the evidence was already presented up above 😂
> 
> 135 K isn’t far off at all from the original 158 K; so yes, he’s still fairly accurate here. It’s not precise, but it’s still an accurate number.
> 
> Some of you are acting like he reported 200 K, but yet it only turned out to be 45 K for the ppv.


It’s not precise but it’s accurate?


----------



## VIP86

oh that's rich right there, imagine saying 135K is close to 158K
that's top level comedy 😁

the beauty of numbers is that they don't lie
The Observer’s estimate for Revolution is 158,000
the real number is 135,000
that's 23,000 difference

The Observer’s estimate for Double or Nothing is 125,000
the real number is 115,000
that's 10,000 difference

Dave Meltzer is simply a lying fanboy
nothing more nothing less
from now on any number he says should be decreased by 20%


----------



## One Shed

So once again, Meltzer was not reporting, he was guessing based on partial data, and was off by double digits.


----------



## Hitman1987

VIP86 said:


> oh that's rich right there, imagine saying 135K is close to 158K
> that's top level comedy 😁
> 
> the beauty of numbers is that they don't lie
> The Observer’s estimate for Revolution is 158,000
> the real number is 135,000
> that's 23,000 difference
> 
> The Observer’s estimate for Double or Nothing is 125,000
> the real number is 115,000
> that's 10,000 difference
> 
> Dave Meltzer is simply a lying fanboy
> nothing more nothing less
> from now on any number he says should be decreased by 20%





Two Sheds said:


> So once again, Meltzer was not reporting, he was guessing based on partial data, and was off by double digits.


They’re not precise but they’re still accurate numbers


----------



## El Hammerstone

Here I thought Meltzer was meant to report the numbers, not take part in the weekly forum prediction game.


----------



## RapShepard

How do WrestleNomics and Meltzer come up with their numbers/guesses? I know Meltzer is respected in MMA when it comes to MMA PPV buys and all the MMA companies are private as well. But with him and WrestleNomics being so far apart clearly at least one is way off.


----------



## Dark Emperor

DammitChrist said:


> Big kudos to Meltzer for being really accurate with the numbers regarding the ppv buyrates
> 
> He wasn't far off at all :bjpenn


Are you serious? 16% overstated is really accurate to you. I work in finance and numbers being that far out will never pass any audit.

Also its interesting he has never under-estimated the numbers.


----------



## Dark Emperor

RapShepard said:


> How do WrestleNomics and Meltzer come up with their numbers/guesses? I know Meltzer is respected in MMA when it comes to MMA PPV buys and all the MMA companies are private as well. But with him and WrestleNomics being so far apart clearly at least one is way off.


Only one of those have a positive bias towards AEW so i think we can guess which one is way off.

Look at the amount of detail WrestleNomics give when doing their numbers, compared to Meltzer's quotes.


----------



## VIP86

didn't everybody know that the new laws of math says that 135K "isn't far off at all" from 158K
all the kids in La La Land know this
Get with the times people, that's next level math we can't even comprehend


----------



## RapShepard

Dark Emperor said:


> Only one of those have a positive bias towards AEW so i think we can guess which one is way off.
> 
> Look at the amount of detail WrestleNomics give when doing their numbers, compared to Meltzer's quotes.


I'm just trying to be fair and from my understanding apparently the newsletter has more in-depth breakdowns. While I wouldn't be surprised if he was giving them best case scenario PPV buy predictions, I don't want to just say he for sure is you know lol.


----------



## DammitChrist

Your disagreement doesn’t change the fact that Meltzer is still a reliable name.



VIP86 said:


> didn't everybody know that the new laws of math says that 135K "isn't far off at all" from 158K
> all the kids in La La Land know this
> Get with the times people, that's next level math we can't even comprehend


Alright, how does this not constitute as baiting? 

These bad jokes aren’t even funny, but yet you’re still continuing with them.


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> How do WrestleNomics and Meltzer come up with their numbers/guesses? I know Meltzer is respected in MMA when it comes to MMA PPV buys and all the MMA companies are private as well. But with him and WrestleNomics being so far apart clearly at least one is way off.


FiteTv is not giving their numbers so usually the US buys are 100% accurate but the fitetv numbers are not


----------



## Dark Emperor

RapShepard said:


> I'm just trying to be fair and from my understanding apparently the newsletter has more in-depth breakdowns. While I wouldn't be surprised if he was giving them best case scenario PPV buy predictions, I don't want to just say he for sure is you know lol.


From what i have seen, he gives details on the domestic buys, then uses that number to estimate the total worldwide numbers even though its unlikely the international buys have the same correletion. Im sure he also add about 10% or so extra to the numbers just to make it look better.

Out of all 9 PPV's, i remember Melzer always claimed AEW did around 100k PPV or more. But looking at that chart only 3 of them got over 100k. I wish someone can go back and compare Meltzer numbers to these numbers. I am sure not even 1 out of 9 of the PPVs would be underestimated by him.


----------



## CovidFan

This is what Meltzer actually wrote in the newsletter so I'm not sure where 158,000 is coming from that was reported from that other report, unless it's his twitter (which I don't care to look at).


Dave Meltzer said:


> the best estimate at this point would be 135,000 to 150,000 buys.


----------



## Dark Emperor

rbl85 said:


> FiteTv is not giving their numbers so usually the US buys are 100% accurate but the fitetv numbers are not


Will you apologise to me now for telling me to 'shut up' when i said Meltzer likely inflates the numbers and can't be trusted until we get a verifiable source?

Sounds like a reasonable assumption that a 'journalist' that favours AEW and defends them constantly online would inflate numbers he knows is unlikely to be verified.


----------



## Hitman1987

DammitChrist said:


> Your disagreement doesn’t change the fact that Meltzer is still a reliable name.
> 
> 
> 
> Alright, how does this not constitute as baiting?
> 
> These bad jokes aren’t even funny, but yet you’re still continuing with them.


Can you provide some evidence of baiting please?

All I see is somebody stating the difference between 2 different numbers?

Unless you’re from La La land, then I can see why it may be offensive


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> Alright, how does this not constitute as baiting?
> 
> These bad jokes aren’t even funny, but yet you’re still continuing with them.


nope, this is called open discussion in a public forum
if you can't handle it, that's your problem

you of all people shouldn't mention the word baiting
every post you make is to bait people
your post history in this thread alone proves it
also, playing the victim is not going to get you anywhere


----------



## DammitChrist

VIP86 said:


> nope, this is called open discussion in a public forum
> if you can't handle it, that's your problem
> 
> *you of all people shouldn't mention the word baiting
> every post you make is to bait people
> your post history in this thread alone proves it
> also, playing the victim is not going to get you anywhere*


That’s absolutely nonsensical considering the fact that you repeatedly label and antagonize the fans who enjoy AEW over the past couple of pages. 

PLUS, you’re blatantly mocking me repeatedly for pointing out the fact that Meltzer is a reliable source since it doesn’t seem to fit with your doom-and-gloom narrative. 

It’s baffling that there’s even folks feeding you(r ego) by encouraging this petty behavior. 

It’s not my problem if you’re threatened with anything that resembles some positivity on a *public discussion forum*.

You’re guilty, and you are in denial.


----------



## DammitChrist

CovidFan said:


> This is what Meltzer actually wrote in the newsletter so I'm not sure where 158,000 is coming from that was reported from that other report, unless it's his twitter (which I don't care to look at).


I stand corrected then. He was even more accurate with those numbers here apparently compared to the previously guessed, 158 K number


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Eww the positive talk about that piece of shit Meltzer makes me sick. Absolutely awful human being. Rotten to the core.


----------



## La Parka

There’s certainly a common denominator to arguments in this thread.

It wasn’t chip and now we know it’s not wood....


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Showbuzz hasn’t returned, and Woods hasn’t returned

i can only come to the logical conclusion that he ran Showbuzz all this time and he 100% knew what he was talking about and we should have listened more

at the same time, he said the demo didn’t matter and he didn’t agree with how they rated #1 based on the demo, therefore he was obviously biased and hated AEW, so we never should have listened anyway

..... its 2:35 in the morning here if nobody could tell 😂


----------



## DammitChrist

La Parka said:


> There’s certainly a common denominator to arguments in this thread.
> 
> It wasn’t chip and now we know it’s not wood....
> 
> View attachment 102104


Those 2 names caused nonstop heated arguments (24/7) all the time, but sure, let’s ignore that part out (even though I’m the one getting provoked here).


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> That’s absolutely nonsensical considering the fact that you repeatedly label and antagonize the fans who enjoy AEW over the past couple of pages.
> 
> PLUS, you’re blatantly mocking me repeatedly for pointing out the fact that Meltzer is a reliable source since it doesn’t seem to fit with your doom-and-gloom narrative.
> 
> It’s baffling that there’s even folks feeding you(r ego) by encouraging this petty behavior.
> 
> It’s not my problem if you’re threatened with anything that resembles some positivity on a *public discussion forum*.
> 
> You’re guilty, and you are in denial.


your proving my points with every post you make
harassing people and baiting them and then playing the victim
do you actually think people are stupid or can't read ?
i'm surprised you're allowed to be this hostile against other users
but i'm enjoying it, it just shows your frustration and desperation to silence people


----------



## DammitChrist

VIP86 said:


> your proving my points with every post you make
> harassing people and baiting them and then playing the victim
> do you actually think people are stupid or can't read ?
> i'm surprised you're allowed to be this hostile against other users
> but i'm enjoying it, it just shows your frustration and desperation to silence people


Dude, you’re the one who confronted me (and other fans) to begin with here 😂 

Just look at your previous posts where you repeatedly mock us :lol

Edit: 

Seriously, I just wanted to say that Meltzer can be trustworthy. That’s really it.


----------



## .christopher.

La Parka said:


> There’s certainly a common denominator to arguments in this thread.
> 
> It wasn’t chip and now we know it’s not wood....
> 
> View attachment 102104


@Chrome


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> Dude, you’re the one who confronted me (and other fans) to begin with here 😂
> 
> Just look at your previous posts where you repeatedly mock us :lol


so you do think people are stupid aren't you
anyone with 3 brain cells will go back and see how unhinged you become against any criticisms
being Delusional and a pathological liar is ok
it certainly provides entertainment for everyone


----------



## Chan Hung

Does anyone know, how come Smackdown has ratings now and AEW still doesnt?


----------



## Dark Emperor

Chan Hung said:


> Does anyone know, how come Smackdown has ratings now and AEW still doesnt?


I think because Fox is on Network TV, their ratings are earlier. ShowbuzzDaily used to have the Smackdown rating up by Saturday morning.

Whereas Raw, AEW & NXT were always afternoon.


----------



## rbl85

Chan Hung said:


> Does anyone know, how come Smackdown has ratings now and AEW still doesnt?


The FOX, NBC, etc numbers are always out before TNT.


----------



## VIP86

It will be up
My pick is 700 🤞
Or close to it


----------



## DammitChrist

If they somehow get 753 K viewers, I would be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## Chan Hung

If they get 700 or more that would be considered a plus for them. If they go below 600,00 that would be a bit worrisome, second week in a row getting low numbers.


----------



## Klitschko

Catching up on the last few pages and just wanted to say that you know I like you @DammitChrist, but you spent the last few pages going off on people and telling them to stop labeling you, yet you created the whole anti smark stuff in order to label people that had criticism. Cmon now brother. 

Anyways, I'm predicting 630k.


----------



## DammitChrist

Klitschko said:


> Catching up on the last few pages and just wanted to say that you know I like you @DammitChrist, but you spent the last few pages going off on people and telling them to stop labeling you, yet you created the whole anti smark stuff in order to label people that had criticism. Cmon now brother.
> 
> Anyways, I'm predicting 630k.


Come on, dude, you know that I dialed back on that big time weeks ago though. I haven’t even uttered that term on here since then. 

I have low expectations for them, so I’ll go with at least 600 K viewers as a safe guess.


----------



## VIP86

i heard SmackDown is not doing 2 million anymore
are they following RAW footsteps ?


----------



## Klitschko

DammitChrist said:


> Come on, dude, you know that I dialed back on that big time weeks ago though. I haven’t even uttered that term on here since then.
> 
> I have low expectations for them, so I’ll go with at least 600 K viewers as a safe guess.


That's true. 

Anyways, yea don't expect too much at first. Seems like they have to build up to it from scratch because of this temporary move. I really don't like how TNT keeps fucking with them and moving them all over the place. Hopefully TBS is a permanent home that treats them well. 




VIP86 said:


> i heard SmackDown is not doing 2 million anymore
> are they following RAW footsteps ?


Seems like all of wrestling is down a lot actually. RAW will be hitting 1.2's by Summerslam at this point.


----------



## Wolf Mark

VIP86 said:


> It will be up
> My pick is 700 🤞
> Or close to it


They got 500k the week before, you think they are gonna shoot into the 700s? They have been nothing but going down since the week after NXT left.


----------



## VIP86

Wolf Mark said:


> They got 500k the week before, you think they are gonna shoot into the 700s? They have been nothing but going down since the week after NXT left.


who knows 🤷‍♂️ , most of the time the number is very different than almost everyone is expecting
we'll see soon


----------



## Chrome

They're coming off a good ppv so the number should go up. I predict 680 k.


----------



## Aedubya

666k


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Mmmm - 630k


----------



## fabi1982

DammitChrist said:


> Dude, the evidence was already presented up above 😂
> 
> 135 K isn’t far off at all from the original 158 K; so yes, he’s still fairly accurate here. It’s not precise, but it’s still an accurate number.
> 
> Some of you are acting like he reported 200 K, but yet it only turned out to be 45 K for the ppv.


So when your boss is paying you 10+% less on your paycheck, you would say „oh yeah thats fairly accurate, so dont mind“?

Sometimes you dont even try to not show you trolling…


----------



## DammitChrist

fabi1982 said:


> So when your boss is paying you 10+% less on your paycheck, you would say „oh yeah thats fairly accurate, so dont mind“?
> 
> Sometimes you dont even try to not show you trolling…


Jeez, we’re back to this again. 

I just wanted to give some support to his credibility, and I just wanted to make my prediction of at least 600 K viewers for this week. 

Enough with the stupid, false accusations about me already.


----------



## VIP86

it still not out yet ??

apparently TNT viewership is so complicated
it's being counted one by one using special rituals by half naked girls on a secret remote island
that's the only logical explanation for the delay

i wish we were living in 2021 and have devices called computers that can count really really fast
but nope, sticks and stones for us


----------



## Deathiscoming

I predict:-550K


----------



## NathanMayberry

I wouldn't be surprised if they got up to 800K.


----------



## Klitschko

When do the ratings come out?

Also, I hate Meltzer and think he is horrible and an AEW ass kisser, and a piece of shit in general that uses naive people to sell them his opinions instead of facts most of the time, but why is everyone so open to listening to this other person about the buyrates and not him? Just because they made a graph or something? Is there any additional sources?


----------



## La Parka

NathanMayberry said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if they got up to 800K.


Me neither.

The card last week was easily the worst wrestling card on television in a long time.


----------



## Prosper

La Parka said:


> Me neither.
> 
> The card last week was easily the worst wrestling card on television in a long time.


The jobber card with Miro/Dante Martin and Bononi/Darby? RAW has done much worse this year alone.


----------



## La Parka

Prosper said:


> The jobber card with Miro/Dante Martin and Bononi/Darby? RAW has done much worse this year alone.


There is no match card raw could possibly send out there that would be less appealing to a wrestling fan.

Basically all they have to do is send Orton out there and that’s already more star power than that hottdenous card last week


----------



## Prosper

La Parka said:


> There is no match card raw could possibly send out there that would be less appealing to a wrestling fan.
> 
> Basically all they have to do is send Orton out there and that’s already more star power than that hottdenous card last week


I mean this was RAW's card this week:

-Charlotte vs Nikki Cross Beat the Clock
-Orton vs Xavier Woods
-Shayna Bazsler vs Reginald
-Mace & T-Bar vs Lucha House Party
-Sheamus vs. Ricochet and Sheamus vs. Humberto Carrillo
-Naomi and Lana vs. Mandy Rose and Dana Brooke
-Cedric Alexander vs. Shelton Benjamin
-AJ Styles and Omos vs. Elias and Jaxson Ryker
-McIntyre vs Kingston


I don't think throwing Orton and Drew on the card really makes it something that you want to watch, especially with Orton just spinning his wheels. Orton vs Woods is Hangman vs Janela level. 

That Dynamite card was shit, but I know I was more interested in seeing Jade and Miro squash people than I was in watching anything on the card above, but that's just me.


----------



## 3venflow

Dynamite #87 (May 28th) and Dynamite #88 (June 4th) may well have been the two weakest ever on paper and in practice. They're the two lowest rated episodes ever at Cagematch. There have been weak looking cards aplenty in the past that have pleasantly surprised with good storyline advancement and matches.

Even though I like AEW in general, I can also call a spade and spade and won't defend the last two TV shows. They've just bored me, whereas the PPV was great. Throughout AEW's history, I've found even the weaker shows to be very watchable, but the last two were just dead.

It feels like a complete lack of effort due to the graveyard timeslot, especially in hour two when they just seem to shrug and assume no one will be watching except the uber hardcore fan. Dustin vs. Comoroto is a joke of a main event in 2021 and this is from someone who loves Dustin and thinks Comoroto could be something... in future. It's just not a match to headline your flagship show, not now or ever.

So I kind've hope the rating doesn't shoot up _too _much, because the poorer cards shouldn't be rewarded with good ratings.

Given the NJPW influences, I don't get why they don't do the tag formula with big stars but at least one guy who can eat the fall to protect the others. Cody/Dustin vs. Ogogo/Comoroto would have been better than the two Nightmare Family vs. Factory matches and condensed them into one, more compelling segment. Or Britt/Nyla vs. Shida/Riho with Britt and Nyla doing their dissension thing there instead of in a flat segment.


----------



## ProjectGargano

3venflow said:


> Dynamite #87 (May 28th) and Dynamite #88 (June 4th) may well have been the two weakest ever on paper and in practice. They're the two lowest rated episodes ever at Cagematch. There have been weak looking cards aplenty in the past that have pleasantly surprised with good storyline advancement and matches.
> 
> Even though I like AEW in general, I can also call a spade and spade and won't defend the last two TV shows. They've just bored me, whereas the PPV was great. Throughout AEW's history, I've found even the weaker shows to be very watchable, but the last two were just dead.
> 
> It feels like a complete lack of effort due to the graveyard timeslot, especially in hour two when they just seem to shrug and assume no one will be watching except the uber hardcore fan. Dustin vs. Comoroto is a joke of a main event in 2021 and this is from someone who loves Dustin and thinks Comoroto could be something... in future. It's just not a match to headline your flagship show, not now or ever.
> 
> So I kind've hope the rating doesn't shoot up _too _much, because the poorer cards shouldn't be rewarded with good ratings.
> 
> Given the NJPW influences, I don't get why they don't do the tag formula with big stars but at least one guy who can eat the fall to protect the others. Cody/Dustin vs. Ogogo/Comoroto would have been better than the two Nightmare Family vs. Factory matches and condensed them into one, more compelling segment. Or Britt/Nyla vs. Shida/Riho with Britt and Nyla doing their dissension thing there instead of in a flat segment.


Yeah, i agree 100% with you. I tought the 2 last Dynamites were the 2 worst maybe ever and the PPV was great. The card for next week doesn´t look great too. Are they saving all for when they return to Wednesdays and to the road?


----------



## omaroo

Dynamite last month have been really bad imo. Quality has dipped big time.

Whether it's because of the day and time slot they are not giving a shit I don't know but its not an excuse imo.

Worst thing they can do before they go back on the road is alienate fans with such poor shows they are putting on.

Saying how poor their shows have been is a credit in a weird way as still found it somewhat better than the dog shit crap that is raw and even smack down which is basically the roman and usos show.


----------



## 3venflow

ProjectGargano said:


> Yeah, i agree 100% with you. I tought the 2 last Dynamites were the 2 worst maybe ever and the PPV was great. The card for next week doesn´t look great too. Are they saving all for when they return to Wednesdays and to the road?


I think things will pick up again soon because we know about two matches after next week that sound big. First of course is Kenny vs. Jungle Boy on Saturday Night Dynamite on June 26, which I think has the primetime TV slot even though it's not on Wednesday. TK did say he wants the Saturday night show to be a big one.

And Hager vs. Wardlow in some sort of MMA/Octagon/cage match is happening. Hager said 'two weeks', so that could headline the show before Jungle Boy vs. Kenny and would be a big step up from Dustin vs. Comoroto and Ethan/Scorpio vs. Dark Order as a main event.


----------



## RainmakerV2

NathanMayberry said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if they got up to 800K.


Lmao got a PayPal? We can throw whatever you want on it that they dont.


----------



## Chrome

Yeah they're definitely mailing it in on these Friday night shows, but you can't really blame them. They could be putting on all-time great wrestling shows, the viewership would still suck.


----------



## VIP86

changing Time slots shouldn't be an excuse to Half-ass it
and AEW itself is a proof of that
if you remember the first episode without fans in the pandemic
AEW did an Amazing job despite the harsh circumstances surrounding the show
they structured the show to minimize the impact of an empty Arena
and they succeeded in doing that much much better than WWE and their retarded ThunderDome

but now it's like they gave up too easy
just because you changed Time slots, doesn't mean the earth will stop spinning
adapt to it like you did successfully before
they should have used this as an opportunity to show people that Rampage could be successful and entertaining even at this Time slot


----------



## Dr. Middy

They should try a little more maybe, but realistically how much effort should they put into a Friday night show at 10pm when they are going to be back in their normal time in a couple weeks?


----------



## VIP86

unusual circumstances naturally requires More effort, not less
they should have come up with something new they don't really do to counter the disinterest
disguise it as a "special episode"
and advertise it much more with the emphasis on friday
wrestling fans have the tendency to not fully come back when they're gone for whatever reason, i noticed this with WWE viewership
i wonder if NXT moving nights will end up making AEW a little complacent


----------



## thorn123

I thought it was a fine episode. I don’t think they “dial it in” just because of time slot.
People are just not interested in wrestling.
I just hope enough viewers keep tuning in to keep khan and the network interested.


----------



## 3venflow

Updated ticket sales from that account on Twitter:

Miami, FL on 7/7: 2,863 tickets sold (4,561 available after more went on sale)

Austin (Cedar Park), TX on 7/14: 3,749 tickets sold (4,436 available)

Garland, TX on 7/21: 3,600+ tickets sold

And the newly announced show in Noooorth Carolinaaaaaa for the July 28th Dynamite goes on sale this Friday. It'll be held at the 8,600 capacity Bojangles Coliseum where they did 4,000 (3,600 paid) in November 2019.


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> I mean this was RAW's card this week:
> 
> -Charlotte vs Nikki Cross Beat the Clock
> -Orton vs Xavier Woods
> -Shayna Bazsler vs Reginald
> -Mace & T-Bar vs Lucha House Party
> -Sheamus vs. Ricochet and Sheamus vs. Humberto Carrillo
> -Naomi and Lana vs. Mandy Rose and Dana Brooke
> -Cedric Alexander vs. Shelton Benjamin
> -AJ Styles and Omos vs. Elias and Jaxson Ryker
> -McIntyre vs Kingston
> 
> 
> I don't think throwing Orton and Drew on the card really makes it something that you want to watch, especially with Orton just spinning his wheels. Orton vs Woods is Hangman vs Janela level.
> 
> That Dynamite card was shit, but I know I was more interested in seeing Jade and Miro squash people than I was in watching anything on the card above, but that's just me.


That's because you admittedly hate Raw, but pretending those cards are similar in name value, ignoring Orton is in a storyline, and saying Woods is equal to Janela and Orton is equal to Hangman is wildness lol.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1401954789076791296

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Dark Emperor said:


> Lol sensitive one. It's just a wrestling forum, relax. The TV ratings did not come from Meltzer and can be easily checked.
> 
> Meltzer knows no one will ever verify these AEW PPV numbers as they are not a public company. Why have we never heard Tony Khan or anyone else in company bragging about PPV numbers if they are so good like they do when they get a decent rating.
> 
> The PPV numbers will never have any credibility until there is verifiable sources. Especially as Meltzer only gives estimates and lumps domestic and International together which vary significantly in costs to consumer.


*He compared year to year PPVs instead of PPV to PPV to avoid acknowledging a drop from Revolution to DoN. He has no credibility in that regard.*


----------



## Dark Emperor

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1401954789076791296
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oh dear, we may have to start relying on Meltzer for the ratings now 😅. 

It's crazy to think all them years everyone just relied on Showbuzzdaily for the numbers which were provided pretty fast and comprehensive.


----------



## TD Stinger

Ratings for Friday 28th May 2021 - Network Prelims, Finals and Cable Numbers Posted


Ratings for Friday 28th May 2021 - Network Prelims, Finals and Cable Numbers Posted




www.spoilertv.com





Looks like 526K for Dynamite last Friday.


----------



## rbl85

TD Stinger said:


> Ratings for Friday 28th May 2021 - Network Prelims, Finals and Cable Numbers Posted
> 
> 
> Ratings for Friday 28th May 2021 - Network Prelims, Finals and Cable Numbers Posted
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.spoilertv.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like 526K for Dynamite last Friday.


This is Friday 2 weeks ago.


----------



## Martyn

The most of wrestling scene should go on a detox from those silly rating wars, as some people are too obsessed with it. Therefore, I'd say it actually feels good when theres nothing official in regard to the viewership of all these shows, WWE included.


----------



## TD Stinger

rbl85 said:


> This is Friday 2 weeks ago.


Yeah, my bad. I saw that on assumed it was referring to last Friday, 6/4.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Dark Emperor said:


> Oh dear, we may have to start relying on Meltzer for the ratings now 😅.
> 
> It's crazy to think all them years everyone just relied on Showbuzzdaily for the numbers which were provided pretty fast and comprehensive.


Meltzer is not the only one who gives the ratings.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1401964771310772228
 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1401964771310772228
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*Wait, Alvarez uses this site too? I count on him for the ratings report. Dammit.*


----------



## rbl85

The Legit DMD said:


> *Wait, Alvarez uses this site too? I count on him for the ratings report. Dammit.*


Pretty much everybody used it


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Time for Meltzer to bullshit the ratings like he does the PPVs. "Dynamite saw a 5% increase in the 18-49 demographic. DoN was a major success." Meanwhile they lost 50 k total viewers.*


----------



## Geert Wilders

Thank fuck for this, to be honest. No obsession over obsolete scores or imagined key demos. It will also prevent Jericho and/or Tony Khan acting like sore winners/losers on twitter.


----------



## 3venflow

Meltzer and Keller still have them, but their thorough breakdowns are in their newsletters so we're not going to have quick and detailed ratings info anymore unless someone else gets a source at Nielsen. This is really sad news, not only for wrestling fans too as they covered the top 150 shows every day.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

And once again, Nielson can keep all the ratings for their advertisers 

yipppeee

/thread


----------



## LazyMark

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1402016403289477128
462,000 viewers apparently. Yikes


----------



## RainmakerV2

NathanMayberry said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if they got up to 800K.



Lmao


----------



## .christopher.

I thought they deserved a break last week because of the first night on a changed slot. This week, well, that's bad.

Wasn't long ago 700k were their loyals. They can't even maintain 500k now.

@VIP86 deserves some apologies.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Keep putting on worthless TV and taking for granted they'll all come back once you go back to Wednesdays.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Jeeez. Meltzer was wrong again, he said that the numbers were significantly better than last week.


----------



## .christopher.

ProjectGargano said:


> Jeeez. Meltzer was wrong again, he said that the numbers were significantly better than last week.


Lol @ listening to Meltzer.

@The Legit DMD sums it up well above.


----------



## Deathiscoming

Damn this is shocking. I was confused while predicting, I struggled whether I should predict 550K or 650K but then I read this post >>


Chrome said:


> They're coming off a good ppv so the number should go up. I predict 680 k.


But eventually I finalized it to 550K, expecting them to draw probably either 575K or 630K..meaning my prediction would be a fail. But damn. 462K ?! IF ONLY I had said 450K !!

The guy who said " I wouldn't be surprised if they get up to 800K viewers" was made to look like even a bigger fool.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Like @DetroitRiverPhx said, maybe they should had a break during this month and then return again when they have their slot. This is killing their viewership, and putting this weak shows isn´t helping them.


----------



## .christopher.

By the time they back to their usual slot they may nave run off a good chunk of fans for good at this rate.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Deathiscoming said:


> Damn this is shocking. I was confused while predicting, I thought 650K but was unsure because someone said "they're coming off of a PPV so they may get 850K". But eventually I finalized it to 550K, expecting them to draw probably either 575K or 630K..meaning my prediction would be a fail. But damn. 462K ?! IF ONLY I had said 450K !!
> 
> The guy who said theyre gonna draw 800K viewers was made to look like even a bigger fool.


The show was abysmal, even the superfans here were giving it 4 out of 10s.


----------



## TD Stinger

ProjectGargano said:


> Jeeez. Meltzer was wrong again, he said that the numbers were significantly better than last week.


TBF, the Torch was wrong like a week ago when they said Raw got like 1.1 million for hour 3 on Memorial Day. Not saying the Torch is wrong here too and Meltzer was right. Just something think about.


----------



## Deathiscoming

RainmakerV2 said:


> The show was abysmal, even the superfans here were giving it 4 out of 10s.


It was. I just read the results and it seemed terrible, even their choice of mainevent. If they're gonna use Dustin rhodes in a mainevent then at least let it be against Christian, Moxley or someone.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

LazyMark said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1402016403289477128
> 462,000 viewers apparently. Yikes


dead. Cancelled, kaput

luckily we‘re just in time so that we can switch to Monday Night Raw!


----------



## RainmakerV2

Deathiscoming said:


> It was. I just read the results and it seemed terrible, even their choice of mainevent. If they're gonna use Dustin rhodes in a mainevent then at least let it be against Christian, Moxley or someone.



The Baker segment made me vomit. Her first impression as champ is getting cheeseburgers thrown at her by Nyla Rose?..Just...what in the fuckity fuck?


----------



## yeahright2

We have a result of the ratings game
AEW Ratings prediction game
@Wolf Mark won it with 475K.. A little while ago we all said they wouldn´t get that low.

AEW should be in panic mode now. Just 3 weeks ago they did *Double *of this weeks number.. Keep it up, and they´ll end up with *Nothing* (sorry, couldn´t resist making that little joke). That bad timeslot should be all about keeping as many viewers as possible, and when they return to their normal slot, they can begin thinking about raising them.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> dead. Cancelled, kaput
> 
> luckily we‘re just in time so that we can switch to Monday Night Raw!


Aww.. Do we have to? Raw sucks, AND it´s 3 hours


----------



## Deathiscoming

RainmakerV2 said:


> The Baker segment made me vomit. Her first impression as champ is getting cheeseburgers thrown at her by Nyla Rose?..Just...what in the fuckity fuck?


That shit happened? I skip women's wrestling even while reading the results so I didn't know about that. But it reeks of something Vince would do... natalya and her farts, Bastion Booger, Roman and dog food, Trish barking like a dog in her underwear..

That is definitely NOT the way to introduce your new champion, even women's Champion.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Deathiscoming said:


> That shit happened? I skip women's wrestling even while reading the results so I didn't know about that. But it reeks of something Vince would do... natalya and her farts, Bastion Booger, Roman and dog food, Trish barking like a dog in her underwear..


Yup. But Meltzer says he's the booker of the year. So..ya know. It's gold.


----------



## Deathiscoming

Oh, how I envy wolf mark! Predicting 475K was pretty spot on. I wonder what if he had read Chrome or anyone else stating "they're coming off a good PPV" , and added another 100K to his prediction lol. (Emphasis being on.. GOOD ppv)


----------



## ProjectGargano

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1402024870792339463


----------



## rbl85

ProjectGargano said:


> Jeeez. Meltzer was wrong again, he said that the numbers were significantly better than last week.


No he said preliminary numbers but the preliminary is a small % of the number at the end


----------



## yeahright2

Deathiscoming said:


> That shit happened? I skip women's wrestling even while reading the results so I didn't know about that. But it reeks of something Vince would do... natalya and her farts, Bastion Booger, Roman and dog food, Trish barking like a dog in her underwear..
> 
> That is definitely NOT the way to introduce your new champion, even women's Champion.


I recently read that 40% of the AEW roster now are former WWE talent to some extent (that´s including everyone who just had a developmental contract there, or people like Archer who worked there 10 years ago), and if that´s true, it´s no wonder they´re doing WWE comedy stuff. The writing was on the wall when they did the "Dinner Debonair" segment or the IC Las Vegas skits. And we can´t blame the writers, because they don´t have any.


----------



## RainmakerV2

ProjectGargano said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1402024870792339463



Churn that spin cycle. Tony Khan must have made a call.


----------



## yeahright2

ProjectGargano said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1402024870792339463


I´m curious -how do they count the DVR viewers? For AEW DVR numbers can be relevant because they can use it to see if people even bother watching their show.
But for anyone advertising on AEW, the actual TV ratings is what counts, not DVR numbers.


----------



## .christopher.

AEW will have to hope that their fans don't become conditioned to recording Dynamite.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> Churn that spin cycle. Tony Khan must have made a call.


You're taking the spot of.... what was is pseudo already, the guy who got ban not too long ago ?


----------



## rbl85

yeahright2 said:


> I´m curious -how do they count the DVR viewers? For AEW DVR numbers can be relevant because they can use it to see if people even bother watching their show.
> *But for anyone advertising on AEW, the actual TV ratings is what counts, not DVR numbers.*


You work in that type of stuff ?


----------



## El Hammerstone

ProjectGargano said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1402024870792339463


This level of mental gymnastics is enough to make even the Young Bucks blush


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> You're taking the spot of.... what was is pseudo already, the guy who got ban not too long ago ?


What? I'm not baiting. I'm just pointing out that right after they tweet a horrendous number they make sure to let everyone know about DVR. 

It's just a little fun, stop being so sensitive.


----------



## Deathiscoming

yeahright2 said:


> I recently read that 40% of the AEW roster now are former WWE talent to some extent (that´s including everyone who just had a developmental contract there, or people like Archer who worked there 10 years ago), and if that´s true, it´s no wonder they´re doing WWE comedy stuff. The writing was on the wall when they did the "Dinner Debonair" segment or the IC Las Vegas skits. And we can´t blame the writers, because they don´t have any.


Didnt get the logic or connection between 40% of their roster being former WWE and how that translates to them doing comedy stuff? They don't have writers so Ex WWE stars themselves decide they wanna do comedy or segments like dinner debonair?

Yep Archer used to be there ten years ago. I was downloading some full 45 minute episodes of Superstars from 2010/2011 for matches like Daniel Bryan vs William Regal, and DB vs Drew Mcintyre from YouTube recently and saw Vance Archer and partner vs The Dudebusters(Trent beretta) have a feud there. In fact 2010/2011 Smackdown roster actually had 8-10 guys from the current AEW roster lol.. Strange isn't it?


----------



## .christopher.

rbl85 said:


> You're taking the spot of.... what was is pseudo already, the guy who got ban not too long ago ?


@La Parka called this.

With Chip gone they turned to Wood. Now Wood's gone @RainmakerV2 is the new villain.

What's the common denominator here, @Chrome ?


----------



## yeahright2

rbl85 said:


> You work in that type of stuff ?


Not at all, that´s why I said I´m curious. I mean, TV viewership is fairly easy to count because it´s an old media. But DVR? is that done the same way as a Nielsen box or an app or what?
But if I ever wanted to buy advertising space on national TV and I could afford it, I would buy space on the show that had 900K live viewers rather than the one who had 450K and 450K DVR viewer numbers. If you DVR, you don´t see the commercials.. At least I don´t


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> That's because you admittedly hate Raw, but pretending those cards are similar in name value, ignoring Orton is in a storyline, and saying Woods is equal to Janela and Orton is equal to Hangman is wildness lol.


Well I’m talking laterally. Hangman obviously doesn’t have the name value of Orton if we’re comparing them side to side but if we’re talking in the context of the show then Hangman within AEW is close to Orton within WWE as far as importance to the overall picture within their promotions. But AEW is the lower brand. Woods vs Orton is just as bad as Janela vs Hangman to me. You’re a Janela fan and correct me if I’m wrong but Im assuming you probably enjoyed watching that as much if not more than a Lucha House Party match or Woods. There is no storyline with Orton lol, he’s in a thrown together tag team with Riddle.

And yea I do hate RAW with a passion lol but I’m not gonna downplay AEW as having the worst card ever in wrestling last week like @La Parka said when RAW puts on worse than that sometimes despite name value.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> What? I'm not baiting. I'm just pointing out that right after they tweet a horrendous number they make sure to let everyone know about DVR.
> 
> It's just a little fun, stop being so sensitive.


I was joking my friend


----------



## Prosper

Lol to the people trashing the company for live Friday ratings, did you watch live at 10pm? Or did you watch later like the other 400k people?

Context people, context.


----------



## RainmakerV2

.christopher. said:


> @La Parka called this.
> 
> With Chip gone they turned to Wood. Now Wood's gone @RainmakerV2 is the new villain.
> 
> What's the common denominator here, @Chrome ?



You had people in here actually predicting 800k lol. With a Nick Comorotato main event. Like, there's a level of super Fandom where you start to lose common sense. If me injecting a little common sense makes me a villain, hey, here I am.


----------



## rbl85

yeahright2 said:


> Not at all, that´s why I said I´m curious. I mean, TV viewership is fairly easy to count because it´s an old media. But DVR? is that done the same way as a Nielsen box or an app or what?
> But if I ever wanted to buy advertising space on national TV and I could afford it, I would buy space on the show that had 900K live viewers rather than the one who had 450K and 450K DVR viewer numbers. If you DVR, you don´t see the commercials.. At least I don´t


Me too in don't understand how this thing works XD


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> You had people in here actually predicting 800k lol. With a Nick Comorotato main event. Like, there's a level of super Fandom where you start to lose common sense. If me injecting a little common sense makes me a villain, hey, here I am.


They will never do 800k at 10pm on a friday even with a perfect show.

You can't do 800K at 10pm when you're doing just over or just under 900K at 8pm.


----------



## yeahright2

Deathiscoming said:


> Didnt get the logic or connection between 40% of their roster being former WWE and how that translates to them doing comedy stuff? They don't have writers so Ex WWE stars themselves decide they wanna do comedy or segments like dinner debonair?
> 
> Yep Archer used to be there ten years ago. I was downloading some full 45 minute episodes of Superstars from 2010/2011 for matches like Daniel Bryan vs William Regal, and DB vs Drew Mcintyre from YouTube recently and saw Vance Archer and partner vs The Dudebusters(Trent beretta) have a feud there. In fact 2010/2011 Smackdown roster actually had 8-10 guys from the current AEW roster lol.. Strange isn't it?


The logic and connection is that the people who had lengthy runs in WWE became accustomed to that kind of programming. And the larger the percentage of people who have worked there, the more ideas of the "WWE kind" will be thrown on the idea table, because that´s what they know. People have a tendency to stick to what they know.
The Debonair segment specifically was an MJF/Jericho idea. We know where Jericho spent a good part of his career.

lol, yeah.. at the time I didn´t even think the SD roster was that great outside the obvious top tier talent, but now they´re almost 10% of the AEW roster.


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> They will never do 800k at 10pm on a friday even with a perfect show.
> 
> You can't do 800K at 10pm when you're doing just over or just under 900K at 8pm.



Well you have common sense and logic. That's good.


----------



## French Connection

yeahright2 said:


> Not at all, that´s why I said I´m curious. I mean, TV viewership is fairly easy to count because it´s an old media. But DVR? is that done the same way as a Nielsen box or an app or what?
> But if I ever wanted to buy advertising space on national TV and I could afford it, I would buy space on the show that had 900K live viewers rather than the one who had 450K and 450K DVR viewer numbers. If you DVR, you don´t see the commercials.. At least I don´t


DVR counts. In 2019 DVR viewers were around 25% of the advertisement.
And guess what, it is the future of TV.

I don't try to get AEW an excuse for these bad ratings.
I just say they maybe move in the worst slot ever.
At the end, we can't compare a prime-time show with a late show.


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> Well I’m talking laterally. Hangman obviously doesn’t have the name value of Orton if we’re comparing them side to side but if we’re talking in the context of the show then Hangman within AEW is close to Orton within WWE as far as importance to the overall picture within their promotions. But AEW is the lower brand. Woods vs Orton is just as bad as Janela vs Hangman to me. You’re a Janela fan and correct me if I’m wrong but Im assuming you probably enjoyed watching that as much if not more than a Lucha House Party match or Woods. There is no storyline with Orton lol, he’s in a thrown together tag team with Riddle.
> 
> And yea I do hate RAW with a passion lol but I’m not gonna downplay AEW as having the worst card ever in wrestling last week like @La Parka said when RAW puts on worse than that sometimes despite name value.


The comparison doesn't work as you're comparing 2 known commodities in Orton and Woods who are in an actual feud, to a throw away match. Hangman a commodity for Joey, who's my guy, but is a jobber to be thrown through shit lol. Riddle trying to turn Orton into his tag partner is a storyline, them feuding with The New Day is a part of the storyline as their clear first test. Now not liking it hey, but it's for sure story lol


----------



## rbl85

The saturday show is at 8pm ?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LazyMark said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1402016403289477128
> 462,000 viewers apparently. Yikes


*How do you DROP 50 K AFTER A PPV?!?! LMAO 🤣*


----------



## French Connection

Double post


----------



## .christopher.

Prosper said:


> Lol to the people trashing the company for live Friday ratings, did you watch live at 10pm? Or did you watch later like the other 400k people?
> 
> Context people, context.


I didn't give AEW any shit for their initial Friday rating because it was somewhat understandable. This is bad, though. They should be able to maintain or improve that 500k, not carry on dropping.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prosper said:


> Lol to the people trashing the company for live Friday ratings, did you watch live at 10pm? Or did you watch later like the other 400k people?
> 
> Context people, context.


*Watched it live. It's a shittier rating than last week AFTER A MAJOR PPV! This is definitely cause for concern to say the least, so stop trying to sugarcoat and downplay it.*


----------



## rbl85

The Legit DMD said:


> *Watched it live. It's a shittier rating than last week AFTER A MAJOR PPV! This is definitely cause for concern to say the least, so stop trying to sugarcoat and downplay it.*


A really thought Baker being the champ would help the viewership....


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *How do you DROP 50 K AFTER A PPV?!?! LMAO 🤣*


How is this supposed to be "funny?"



The Legit DMD said:


> *Watched it live. It's a shittier rating than last week AFTER A MAJOR PPV! This is definitely cause for concern to say the least, so stop trying to sugarcoat and downplay it.*


Yea, don't force people to do something that they clearly aren't interest in doing.


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> The comparison doesn't work as you're comparing 2 known commodities in Orton and Woods who are in an actual feud, to a throw away match. Hangman a commodity for Joey, who's my guy, but is a jobber to be thrown through shit lol. Riddle trying to turn Orton into his tag partner is a storyline, them feuding with The New Day is a part of the storyline as their clear first test. Now not liking it hey, but it's for sure story lol


Admittedly I missed some of the Orton/Riddle backstage segments lol I was speaking from RAW’s method of operating with tag teams which is 95% of the time done just because like the Black/Ricochet tag team, Mandy/Dana, AJ/Omos, Shayna/Jax, etc. all random af lol


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> Admittedly I missed some of the Orton/Riddle backstage segments lol I was speaking from RAW’s method of operating with tag teams which is 95% of the time done just because like the Black/Ricochet tag team, Mandy/Dana, AJ/Omos, Shayna/Jax, etc. all random af lol


Yeah that's the weirdness of WWE's tag team philosophy. They break up actual teams all the time to find the HBK of the group and haven't successfully replicated that sense. Yet they somehow have pretty damn good success with throwing random folks together and making it work for a while. New Day, Miz & Morrison, Kane and multiple partners lol.


----------



## Geeee

I hope that this is not the kind of numbers Rampage does. Maybe it will do a little better because of advertising on Dynamite?


----------



## 3venflow

There was nothing worth staying up for except the opening match really unless you're an absolute hardcore or insomniac. To be honest, I'm glad the rating sucked as these cards should not be rewarded with good ratings or it'll send the wrong message to their upper management.

Even so, I doubt it'll be panic stations at AEW HQ. The time slot sucks, the cards suck, so they probably figure things will normalise some when they're back in a better timezone and back on the road.



Geeee said:


> I hope that this is not the kind of numbers Rampage does. Maybe it will do a little better because of advertising on Dynamite?


If they take Rampage seriously, then it should do better as it'll have the novelty of being a new show for a while. They've said that the Friday night timeslot for Rampage may change after it moves to TBS. They should try to get Saturday night at 8pm for it.


----------



## Geeee

I bet that the 4th quarter will be extremely low


----------



## RapShepard

The rating wasn't good, unfortunate they couldn't raise. But if this episode and last week are indication it seems they're phoning it in. Hopefully the next 2 episodes are stronger efforts. I think we can all agree this filler arc is bull shit and shame on TNT. 

Honestly should just go against SmackDown if they can and see what happens.


----------



## Prosper

The Legit DMD said:


> *Watched it live. It's a shittier rating than last week AFTER A MAJOR PPV! This is definitely cause for concern to say the least, so stop trying to sugarcoat and downplay it.*


Not sugarcoating just speaking reality, most people are not gonna be in on a Friday night at 10pm. I never am. I don’t think it’s a cause for concern at all, networks know well enough how much moving a shows time slot affects live viewership. They will look at all the factors including DVR and the obvious death slot and come to a conclusion that the audience is still there. At this point it’s obvious that AEW hasn’t lost their audience and the fan base is passionate for the promotion.

My posts wouldn’t come off as sugarcoating if people would post in context and not make it seem like AEW is on their deathbed lol but sometimes you gotta call people out.

The card was definitely shitty for the past couple weeks though, not denying that, they should do better despite the time slot, so not saying that didn’t have some kind of effect on live viewership for the people who actually stay in on a Friday night and watch on cable, but as far as killing their audience, we’ve been there and done that multiple times in the past and the rating has always shot back up so I don’t see any cause for concern at all.


----------



## Shock Street

DammitChrist said:


> How is this supposed to be "funny?"


Because its funny when corporations are given a lay-up and drop the ball horribly anyway. Doesn't matter if its one that makes content I enjoy or not, fack em.


----------



## French Connection

RapShepard said:


> Honestly should just go against SmackDown if they can and see what happens.


SmackDown is on National TV while AEW a cable show.They will get killed by WWE.
I think it would be better to go on Monday honestly.

But I agree, shame on TNT!
They moved the show at the worst slot ever. There is a reason we call the Friday night death slot.

Anyway the show will struggle every week at this time, same for the saturday one.


----------



## La Parka

That’s a horrendous number 

It’s getting bad, real bad for AEW.


----------



## RapShepard

French Connection said:


> SmackDown is on National TV while AEW a cable show.They will get killed by WWE.
> I think it would be better to go on Monday honestly.
> 
> But I agree, shame on TNT!
> They moved the show at the worst slot ever. There is a reason we call the Friday night death slot.
> 
> Anyway the show will struggle every week at this time, same for the friday one.


I'm more so saying since they had to go to Friday why not just go on at 8. They'd probably be more likely to get some back and forth viewers when a SmackDown segment isn't hitting. As on top of 10 being a death spot, most wrestling fans probably aren't trying to watch 4 hours straight of wrestling that's not PPVs


----------



## Chrome

I was off by over 200k damn lol. That's a bad number, especially coming off a ppv.


----------



## Chan Hung

LazyMark said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1402016403289477128
> 462,000 viewers apparently. Yikes


Holy shit, If this is legit that is scary.


----------



## validreasoning

RapShepard said:


> Honestly should just go against SmackDown if they can and see what happens.


They would be eaten alive

UFC tried that and got stomped and SD is a stronger show now


----------



## Dark Emperor

Terrible numbers, another record low. Even NXT has never dropped under 500k to my knowledge.

Weird the rating never got anywhere this low last year when they were moved around. There is definately less interest now. Will be interesting to see if they can get back to 800k+ first show back on Wednesday.

One indicator that the network doesn't value AEW that much is putting them on at a stupid timeslot. They really couldn't find a better timeslot than 10pm on a Friday. Fans have already got their wrestling fix with Smackdown, no one tuning in to 2hrs of AEW straight after. Why not just move them to TBS or different day on TNT but at same time slot. Very odd. 

Anyway Saturday show should do a better rating as that is generally better than a Friday.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prosper said:


> Not sugarcoating just speaking reality, most people are not gonna be in on a Friday night at 10pm. I never am. I don’t think it’s a cause for concern at all, networks know well enough how much moving a shows time slot affects live viewership. They will look at all the factors including DVR and the obvious death slot and come to a conclusion that the audience is still there. At this point it’s obvious that AEW hasn’t lost their audience and the fan base is passionate for the promotion.
> 
> My posts wouldn’t come off as sugarcoating if people would post in context and not make it seem like AEW is on their deathbed lol but sometimes you gotta call people out.
> 
> The card was definitely shitty for the past couple weeks though, not denying that, they should do better despite the time slot, so not saying that didn’t have some kind of effect on live viewership for the people who actually stay in on a Friday night and watch on cable, but as far as killing their audience, we’ve been there and done that multiple times in the past and the rating has always shot back up so I don’t see any cause for concern at all.


*We've gone from 1.2 mil to 462,000 in less than two months and you're trying to sell us the nonsense that AEW isn't losing their fanbase 😐. Again, all of us gave them a pass for the first show in this death slot after a nothing show, but there is no excuse for dropping 50,000 viewers after a major pay-per-view.*


----------



## Mr316

This is a complete disaster but of course AEW fans are playing it down by blaming the timeslot. Well, AEW fans should try to understand the bigger picture. 

First of all, good luck to AEW’s new show in this timeslot. That was a post PPV show and no one watched live. Don’t talk to me about DVR, advertisers don’t care about DVR numbers because everyone is using the fast forward button during commercials. 

Second, clearly TNT couldn’t care less about AEW and they’re disappointed with the lack of advertisers. I mean, there were still other options for Dynamite and it’s upcoming new show than Friday at 10PM ET.

I’m telling you AEW fans. You should start being worried, not because of the poor numbers. Poor numbers on a Friday at 10pm ET makes sense.

You should be worried because Warner seems to be losing interest in AEW at a very fast pace.


----------



## RapShepard

validreasoning said:


> They would be eaten alive
> 
> UFC tried that and got stomped and SD is a stronger show now


They're getting ate alive now, might as well see what they can take if anything


----------



## ProjectGargano

The Legit DMD said:


> *We've gone from 1.2 mil to 462,000 in less than two months and you're trying to sell us the nonsense that AEW isn't losing their fanbase 😐. Again, all of us gave them a pass for the first show in this death slot after a nothing show, but there is no excuse for dropping 50,000 viewers after a major pay-per-view.*


I mean, they had their second best PPV buyrate ever a week ago.


----------



## Wolf Mark

As far as I'm concerned, not watching the show live is like not watching it. Recording does not matter. It's not worth people's time to watch it live.

Networks gets sports and wrestling cause of that live experience. That's where the money is.



Deathiscoming said:


> Oh, how I envy wolf mark! Predicting 475K was pretty spot on. I wonder what if he had read Chrome or anyone else stating "they're coming off a good PPV" , and added another 100K to his prediction lol. (Emphasis being on.. GOOD ppv)


Bro, I go with logic. I knew AEW were putting awful shows and not fixing their problems. And It's been a constant fall since the week after NXT left their spot. They have done two world-wide big re-tweeting catastrophic blunder in a short time with the non-exploding ring and Jericho falling into a matress. And they never really covered. Cause for those who thought AEW was cool, they were not cool anymore.

I aimed for always lower and they never disappoint.


----------



## Dark Emperor

validreasoning said:


> They would be eaten alive
> 
> UFC tried that and got stomped and SD is a stronger show now


This is true but it is on at 8pm and they can't do much worse than 462k. Even with Smackdown competition, they would get slightly more than what they just did. 

Unless all AEW fans have all secretly acknowledged the Tribal Chief and choose him over Dynamite 😅.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

ProjectGargano said:


> I mean, they had their second best PPV buyrate ever a week ago.


*1. I don't trust Meltzer's numbers.
2. That doesn't matter to Turner.
3. No one cared to watch the free show and even get a recap. *


----------



## Prosper

validreasoning said:


> They would be eaten alive
> 
> UFC tried that and got stomped and *SD is a stronger show now*


Lol imagine if Roman Reigns left though. I don’t think you can really call a show “strong” if it completely falls apart and dies if one guy is injured. And that’s coming from someone who likes SD.



The Legit DMD said:


> *We've gone from 1.2 mil to 462,000 in less than two months and you're trying to sell us the nonsense that AEW isn't losing their fanbase 😐*


Lol and when they inevitably go back to Wednesday and pull 900K+ live on cable then what? You just call it a miracle and God’s work? 😂


----------



## RapShepard

ProjectGargano said:


> I mean, they had their second best PPV buyrate ever a week ago.


Which was also down from their last PPV Revolution


----------



## ProjectGargano

The Legit DMD said:


> *1. I don't trust Meltzer's numbers.
> 2. That doesn't matter to Turner.
> 3. No one cared to watch the free show and even get a recap. *


It wasn't Meltzer, it was Wrestlenomics.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Dark Emperor said:


> This is true but it is on at 8pm and they can't do much worse than 462k. Even with Smackdown competition, they would get slightly more than what they just did.
> 
> Unless all AEW fans have all secretly acknowledged the Tribal Chief and choose him over Dynamite 😅.


*Certain people here tried to say that Omega was a bigger star than Roman 😂*


ProjectGargano said:


> It wasn't Meltzer, it was Wrestlenomics.


*And it was still down from Revolution.*


----------



## Reggie Dunlop




----------



## Mr316

I’ll also add this. You can’t expect great numbers when your main event is Dustin Rhodes and this guy from QT’s group. Sure, you don’t have to go all out since you know less people will be watching but you can still atleast put a little effort.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

.christopher. said:


> Lol @ listening to Meltzer.
> 
> @The Legit DMD sums it up well above.


*I was meming when I posted that and it ended up being 100% true. Hilarious.*



Prosper said:


> Lol and when they inevitably go back to Wednesday and pull 900K+ live on cable then what? You just call it a miracle and God’s work? 😂


*And are you going to make excuses when they don't hit 900k? Yes you are. I can't wait for July.*


----------



## Prosper

Wolf Mark said:


> *As far as I'm concerned, not watching the show live is like not watching it. Recording does not matter. It's not worth people's time to watch it live.*
> 
> Networks gets sports and wrestling cause of that live experience. That's where the money is.
> 
> 
> 
> Bro, I go with logic. I knew AEW were putting awful shows and not fixing their problems. And It's been a constant fall since the week after NXT left their spot. They have done two world-wide big re-tweeting catastrophic blunder in a short time with the non-exploding ring and Jericho falling into a matress. And they never really covered. Cause for those who thought AEW was cool, they were not cool anymore.
> 
> I aimed for always lower and they never disappoint.


That doesn’t make sense. Not watching “Breaking Bad” or “The Walking Dead” live on AMC but watching it whenever you want is the same as not watching it? Breaking Bad is not worth watching live for everyone who is watching on Netflix because it’s more convenient? Lol




The Legit DMD said:


> *I was meming when I posted that and it ended up being 100% true. Hilarious.
> 
> 
> And are you going to make excuses when they don't hit 900k? Yes you are. I can't wait for July.*


I don’t make excuses lol I just bring up things people like to ignore when they spam. I entertain the posts I see in this thread because I find them comical, if the card is bad and deserves a bad rating then I’ll call them out. But I know that the ratings will be great regardless unless AEW drastically changes what they have been doing so well. At that point I won’t complain I’ll just stop watching until they change course back. But I doubt that will ever happen. If they continue to do what they are doing now then there’s no reason for their loyal fan base to permanently leave.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Holy shit... I can’t believe that I was that wrong..

I read so much about Double or Nothing being the best PPV of the year and believed that the AEW marks that have so far followed them everywhere they went would continue to do so. It turns out they are not. 

The honeymoon phase is definitely over. I remember mentioning that AEW was taking their audience for granted. Gone are the days of them putting up mediocrity and being rewarded with high ratings. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr316

Man. Some of you really don’t understand. Sure, AEW will go back to Wednesday in July and they might hit 900k by advertising a stacked card. The problem is Warner clearly not giving a s**** and putting AEW in the worst possible timeslot. This just shows that they don’t care. AEW should be very worried about their next TV deal. Tony Khan’s friend is no longer there to help.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Prosper said:


> That doesn’t make sense. Not watching “Breaking Bad” or “The Walking Dead” live on AMC but watching it whenever you want is the same as not watching it? Breaking Bad is not worth watching live for everyone who is watching on Netflix? Lol


To be fair, he did say below it Sports and Wrestling when he's talking about Live. He's deffo not wrong bout the sports aspect. Only Live viewership matters.

Wrestling is not quite the same but i think the Network were treating it that way.


----------



## La Parka

Banning thewood cursed AEW.

This is gods punishment for banning the wood.

I hope it was worth it. You may have struck him down but he has returned more powerful than ever.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Prosper said:


> That doesn’t make sense. Not watching “Breaking Bad” or “The Walking Dead” live on AMC but watching it whenever you want is the same as not watching it? Breaking Bad is not worth watching live for everyone who is watching on Netflix? Lol


Actually if BB had shitty ratings, it would have been cancelled.

Secondly, networks are interested in sport and wrestling BECAUSE of the live experience. That is why they are paying so much for it! I'm predicting that if in the future Dynamite does too many taped shows, Warner are not gonna like it.


----------



## qntntgood

rbl85 said:


> They will never do 800k at 10pm on a friday even with a perfect show.
> 
> You can't do 800K at 10pm when you're doing just over or just under 900K at 8pm.


Friday night at 10pm is a death sentence for any show,because Friday has always been date night.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Prosper said:


> Lol and when they inevitably go back to Wednesday and pull 900K+ live on cable then what? You just call it a miracle and God’s work? [emoji23]


Less than 2 months ago, you posted that Dynamite would be beating Raw by All Out.. and now you’re just hoping for 900k? 

[emoji225][emoji226][emoji225][emoji226][emoji225]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

NathanMayberry said:


> Holy shit... I can’t believe that I was that wrong..
> 
> I read so much about Double or Nothing being the best PPV of the year and believed that the AEW marks that have so far followed them everywhere they went would continue to do so. It turns out they are not.
> 
> The honeymoon phase is definitely over. I remember mentioning that AEW was taking their audience for granted. Gone are the days of them putting up mediocrity and being rewarded with high ratings.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*We were told we were being overly cynical about the f** stupid booking on this program, yet even half of the 800k+ diehards left after 2 weeks. Major changes need to be made. They can no longer coast on name value/blind loyalty and produce shit on a weekly basis. Fans are fed up.*


----------



## Deathiscoming

Wolf Mark said:


> Bro I always go with logic. I knew AEW were putting awful shows and not fixing their problems. And It's been a constant fall since the week after NXT left their spot. They have done two world-wide big re-tweeting catastrophic blunder in a short time with the non-exploding ring and Jericho falling into a matress. And they never really covered. Cause for those who thought AEW was cool, they were not cool anymore.
> 
> I aimed for always lower and they never disappoint.


Hahha.. Brilliant!


----------



## rich110991

Rating doesn’t reflect the quality of the show 🤷‍♂️

They should just go head to head with RAW on a Monday and see who wins


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *I was meming when I posted that and it ended up being 100% true. Hilarious.
> 
> 
> And are you going to make excuses when they don't hit 900k? Yes you are. I can't wait for July.*


Why are you provoking him for no good reason?


----------



## Prosper

Mr316 said:


> Man. Some of you really don’t understand. Sure, AEW will go back to Wednesday in July and they might hit 900k by advertising a stacked card. The problem is Warner clearly not giving a s**** and putting AEW in the worst possible timeslot. This just shows that they don’t care. AEW should be very worried about their next TV deal. Tony Khan’s friend is no longer there to help.


Are you sure you understand there behind your computer screen? Do you have any insight into what other time slots were available? Was anything open? Do tell if you were a part of those meetings. LOL.

There are more indicators that TNT value AEW than indicators that they don’t.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *We were told we were being overly cynical about the f** stupid booking on this program, yet even half of the 800k+ diehards left after 2 weeks. Major changes need to be made. They can no longer coast on name value/blind loyalty and produce shit on a weekly basis. Fans are fed up.*


You're seriously going to speak for all of those fans? :lmao

Jeez, it's pretty obvious that you're stuck in your own narrative, and you're using these numbers to suit it.


----------



## Dark Emperor

rich110991 said:


> Rating doesn’t reflect the quality of the show 🤷‍♂️
> 
> They should just go head to head with RAW on a Monday and see who wins


Haha, Raw's record low viewership is still 3.5x this amount, so the winner is pretty obvious. 
TNT really fucked AEW over during these playoffs. All they needed to do keep them in same timeslot even if they moved channel or nights.


----------



## Mr316

Prosper said:


> Are you sure you understand there behind your computer screen? Do you have any insight into what other time slots were available? Was anything open? Do tell if you were a part of those meetings. LOL.
> 
> There are more indicators that TNT value AEW than indicators that they don’t.


Look at TNT’s schedule. On top of that, the best indicator that TNT doesn’t care about AEW is that their being kicked off the network at the end of the year.


----------



## kyledriver

Really though who would watch on Friday night at that time slot? I'm I'm huge AEW fan and I've missed the last 2 shows because I'm doing stuff on Friday night.

I pvr though and watched it the next day.

The last 2 shows have been lackluster though, and I agree they definitely shouldn't phone it in. Especially right after an excellent PPV. 

I wouldn't be surprised though if they really did lose 2-300000. 6 weeks in a different time slot will fuck things up. I'm sure some of those casuals just think it got canceled or isn't on TV anymore.



Sent from my SM-A526W using Tapatalk


----------



## rich110991

Dark Emperor said:


> Haha, Raw's record low viewership is still 3.5x this amount, so the winner is pretty obvious.
> TNT really fucked AEW over during these playoffs. All they needed to do keep them in same timeslot even if they moved channel or nights.


How’s it obvious when they’re not head to head? 😂

I’m sure if RAW moved to Friday at whatever time it was for AEW, then the ratings would tank too


----------



## Han Popo

Lol the excuses are getting creative now. The horrible ratings reflect the horrible show they’ve been putting on.


----------



## rich110991

Han Popo said:


> Lol the excuses are getting creative now. The horrible ratings reflect the horrible show they’ve been putting on.


The awesome show?


----------



## Deathiscoming

La Parka said:


> Banning thewood cursed AEW.
> 
> This is gods punishment for banning the wood.
> 
> I hope it was worth it. You may have struck him down but he has returned more powerful than ever.


Haha reading this was just as ridiculous as having read yamchas " I met Adam Cole. He treated me like shit" Thread. "God's punishment for banning The Wood" 😂🤣


----------



## DammitChrist

Han Popo said:


> Lol the excuses are getting creative now. The horrible ratings reflect the horrible show they’ve been putting on.


No, it actually says a lot about how horrible the Friday Night time slot really is atm.


----------



## Mr316

Seriously, AEW fans are hilarious. We’re about to reach a point where they would be happy with Marko Stunt vs Vickie Guerrero being the main event on Dynamite.


----------



## shandcraig

even me that watches aew every single week forgot it was on friday night and was confused. For sure they would lose more casual people.


----------



## rich110991

Mr316 said:


> Seriously, AEW fans are hilarious. We’re about to reach a point where they would be happy with Marko Stunt vs Vickie Guerrero being the main event on Dynamite.


Oh yeah we’re the ones that are hilarious 😂


----------



## Deathiscoming

Mr316 said:


> Seriously, AEW fans are hilarious. We’re about to reach a point where they would be happy with Marko Stunt vs Vickie Guerrero being the main event on Dynamite.


Nobody besides me and one other person, I forgot who, even pointed out that if they were gonna choose Dustin to main event.. Then at least put him against Christian or Moxley or someone instead of... That guy.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

La Parka said:


> Banning thewood cursed AEW.
> 
> This is gods punishment for banning the wood.
> 
> I hope it was worth it. You may have struck him down but he has returned more powerful than ever.


*He's smiling from forum heaven and we will keep his spirit alive in the Cornette thread 🙌*


----------



## Chan Hung

rich110991 said:


> Rating doesn’t reflect the quality of the show 🤷‍♂️
> 
> They should just go head to head with RAW on a Monday and see who wins


I mean did you see the card from last Friday? Main event comorado or whatever the heck his name is


----------



## ProjectGargano

Read on twitter that Meltzer reported in his paid subscription thing that 1,7M people ended seeing the 28/05 episode through DVR post 7 days.


----------



## Mr316

ProjectGargano said:


> Read on twitter that Meltzer reported in his paid subscription thing that 1,7M people ended seeing the 28/05 episode through DVR post 7 days.


😂😂😂


----------



## Chan Hung

Deathiscoming said:


> Nobody besides me and one other person, I forgot who, even pointed out that if they were gonna choose Dustin to main event.. Then at least put him against Christian or Moxley or someone instead of... That guy.


Agreed. Dustin vs Jobber doesn't help. The poor jobber needs to work his way up first, it was too soon to main event a top national show. Dustin vs Christian or Dustin vs Miro or something better at least.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Mr316 said:


> 😂😂😂


I am just reporting what I have seen.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Mr316 said:


> 😂😂😂


*It's official, Dynamite has surpassed RAW! 😂*


----------



## Martyn

Looks like I was the only one here actually going out on friday and watching it on dvr on saturday lol. It's funny how people here assume they've suddenly lost tons of their audience. 

That being said, TNT should rethink their timeslot for Rampage show. Dont think AEW cares as they're going to be paid either way, but it can obviously be arranged in more beneficial way.


----------



## DammitChrist

The salt over Dave Meltzer here 😂


----------



## the_hound

ProjectGargano said:


> Read on twitter that Meltzer reported in his paid subscription thing that 1,7M people ended seeing the 28/05 episode through DVR post 7 days.


jesus christ if thats not spin right there then my names malcolm tucker


----------



## rich110991

Chan Hung said:


> I mean did you see the card from last Friday? Main event comorado or whatever the heck his name is


Yep, wasn’t the best main event. Did that make it a bad show? Nope. Does it make it worse than RAW? Definitely not. Is Dynamite still 100x better than RAW? Definitely.

It’s getting to the point where I can’t even be bothered to argue about AEW anymore 😂 I prefer it and that’s all that matters to me really


----------



## VIP86

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1401257773791268865
And yet you were so quick to declare this without having the sufficient information
just because you desperately want to put the words "*AEW & UP Significantly*" in the same sentence
that's the LA LA Land journalism


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*They lost exactly 5% in THE DEMO! You can't make this stuff up lol

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1402030776699392002

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1402022075850641414*


VIP86 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1401257773791268865
> And yet you were so quick to declare this without having the sufficient information
> just because you desperately want to put the words "*AEW & UP Significantly*" in the same sentence
> that's the LA LA Land journalism


*I never get tired of seeing Meltzer take L's. It's glorious.*


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

I remember when TNA was viscously mocked for touting their DVR numbers. Rules for thee and all that. Then again people would openly root for them to die so lol.

Still Meltzer's just reporting the numbers, dudes. I don't like the guy that much but his archive of information is one of his few good qualities. Good for me looking at WCW house shows lel.


----------



## the_hound

smackdown got under 3 million views (watching live plus dvr plus illegal streams) sorry my bad that doesn't count, only counts for aew.............


----------



## rbl85

the_hound said:


> jesus christ if thats not spin right there then my names malcolm tucker


He reports the +7 days for every show and every weeks.

Don't trust what people say on twitter


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *They lost exactly 5% in THE DEMO! You can't make this stuff up lol
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1402030776699392002
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1402022075850641414
> 
> I never get tired of seeing Meltzer take L's. It's glorious.*


Dude, you're actually taking the L here for failing to use context regarding a horrendous time slot as an excuse to bash them (like you were already planning on doing), and you're allowing Meltzer's existence to rot in your head :lol


----------



## rbl85

The Legit DMD said:


> *They lost exactly 5% in THE DEMO! You can't make this stuff up lol
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1402030776699392002
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1402022075850641414
> 
> I never get tired of seeing Meltzer take L's. It's glorious.*


Where did he took an L exactly ? (i think i know what you're talking about and if i'm right then you're more stupid than i thought)


----------



## Chan Hung

Martyn said:


> Looks like I was the only one here actually going out on friday and watching it on dvr on saturday lol. It's funny how people here assume they've suddenly lost tons of their audience.
> 
> That being said, TNT should rethink their timeslot for Rampage show. Dont think AEW cares as they're going to be paid either way, but it can obviously be arranged in more beneficial way.


You make an interesting argument. If this is an indication of how Friday they will do at the same timeslot, they're dead on Fridays. Better rethink things.


----------



## rbl85

Chan Hung said:


> You make an interesting argument. If this is an indication of how Friday they will do at the same timeslot, they're dead on Fridays. Better rethink things.


Let's not forget that Rampage will be a 1 hour show and not 2 hours, i think TNT will be totally ok with a Rampage doing between 500 and 600k


----------



## .christopher.

La Parka said:


> Banning thewood cursed AEW.
> 
> This is gods punishment for banning the wood.
> 
> I hope it was worth it. You may have struck him down but he has returned more powerful than ever.


What's also funny is:

The AEW acolytes hounded @Mr316 out for daring to suggest that TNT would move AEW for Hockey. Then TNT moved AEW for Hockey.

The AEW acolytes hounded @VIP86 out for daring to suggest AEW were losing viewers; citing that 500k was only a blip. Then AEW lost more viewers.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

.christopher. said:


> What's also funny is:
> 
> The AEW acolytes hounded @Mr316 out for daring to suggest that TNT would move AEW for Hockey. Then TNT moved AEW for Hockey.
> 
> The AEW acolytes hounded @VIP86 out for daring to suggest AEW were losing viewers; citing that 500k was only a blip. Then AEW lost more viewers.


*Watching them make even more excuses for a massive drop after their biggest PPV of the year is so amusing.*


----------



## VIP86

when we say, the overall viewers matter
they say, no the DEMO, the Demo is the only thing that matters

when we say, the DEMO has also gone down
they say, No the DVR and streaming is where it's at

when we say, Advertisers don't care about DVR and streaming nearly as much as Live TV (since you can skip commercials)
they say, they did a really good PPV buyrate guys (ignoring the previous argument in the process)

when we say, the PPV buyrate has also gone down from the last one
they say, whatever other excuse

i wish we can all have someone coming up with excuses for us
must feel good to be worshiped blindly


----------



## rbl85

The Legit DMD said:


> *Watching them make even more excuses for a massive drop after their biggest PPV of the year is so amusing.*


You became such a troll dude, you really are starting to pollute every topic on this forum.

Sad because before you were sometime saying interesting things but now the majority of your posts are dumb, mediocre and dull.

You're probably not going to answer (like for the previous post) because every time someone confront you and you know you are in a weak position you ignore the person.


----------



## .christopher.

The Legit DMD said:


> *Watching them make even more excuses for a massive drop after their biggest PPV of the year is so amusing.*


Sometimes you gotta call a spade a spade. I thought the 500k was a blip myself, and had them getting much higher this week.

Sure, the new slot is the big reason and they'll get a good chunk back when they get back to normal, but you can't overlook the content itself playing a part. If the shows were better, the ratings would be, too.


----------



## .christopher.

rbl85 said:


> You became such a troll dude, you really are starting to pollute every topic on this forum.
> 
> Sad because before you were sometime saying interesting things but now the majority of your posts are dumb, mediocre and dull.


Here we are again, @Chrome .

Damn that pesky wood causing arguments in the AEW section! Oh, wait...


----------



## Chrome

.christopher. said:


> Here we are again, @Chrome .
> 
> Damn that pesky wood causing arguments in the AEW section! Oh, wait...


Shut up.


----------



## DammitChrist

rbl85 said:


> You became such a troll dude, you really are starting to pollute every topic on this forum.
> 
> Sad because before you were sometime saying interesting things but now the majority of your posts are dumb, mediocre and dull.


He's just trying to bait fans like you with his actual excuses (to bash a fun product) just so that they can be dressed up as "facts."


----------



## French Connection

The Legit DMD said:


> *We've gone from 1.2 mil to 462,000 in less than two months and you're trying to sell us the nonsense that AEW isn't losing their fanbase 😐. Again, all of us gave them a pass for the first show in this death slot after a nothing show, but there is no excuse for dropping 50,000 viewers after a major pay-per-view.*





The Legit DMD said:


> *They lost exactly 5% in THE DEMO! You can't make this stuff up lol
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1402030776699392002
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1402022075850641414
> 
> I never get tired of seeing Meltzer take L's. It's glorious.*


Man, you are really the type of people knowing the price of everything but the value of nothing. 
Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty sure you're the kind of guy eating potatoes for a year, to buy a brand new car, cheapening it by 30% the first time you turn the key in it.

You are comparing a prime-time show with a late night one. 
You are comparing a Wednesday nigh with a Friday (also called death slot or graveyard slot), where the key demo is usually going out, or receiving friends (anyway doing anything than watching TV).


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

VIP86 said:


> when we say, the overall viewers matter
> they say, no the DEMO, the Demo is the only thing that matters
> 
> when we say, the DEMO has also gone down
> they say, No the DVR and streaming is where it's at
> 
> when we say, Advertisers don't care about DVR and streaming nearly as much as Live TV (since you can skip commercials)
> they say, they did a really good PPV buyrate guys (ignoring the previous argument in the process)
> 
> when we say, the PPV buyrate has also gone down from the last one
> they say, whatever other excuse
> 
> i wish we can all have someone coming up with excuses for us
> must feel good to be worshiped blindly


*I could have sworn we got told a month ago that the core fan base wasn't going anywhere and our complaining was doing nothing. Half the audience must have instantly forgotten that AEW is the greatest show on television. This is what we were told after blood and guts.*


----------



## Chan Hung

I think there are a couple factors here with the rating in the 400's. One the card on paper was nothing flashy and could easily be an 'elevation' show. Secondly the timeframe on Friday is another issue apparently. Lastly, they may not have been getting too much help on Wednesdays from TNT to remind people that they will be on Friday.


----------



## rbl85

You're not suppose to be ban to baiting ?

Because i can't believe the Legit DMD is that stupid to believe what he wrote.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Chan Hung said:


> Lastly, they may not have been getting too much help on Wednesdays from TNT to remind people that they will be on Friday.


*This isn't true. I'm watching the playoffs literally right now and there's an AEW Friday advertisement during every single commercial break. That's millions of people seeing that they've moved to Fridays. They have absolutely no excuse.*


----------



## rbl85

Chan Hung said:


> I think there are a couple factors here with the rating in the 400's. One the card on paper was nothing flashy and could easily be an 'elevation' show. Secondly the timeframe on Friday is another issue apparently. Lastly, they may not have been getting too much help on Wednesdays from TNT to remind people that they will be on Friday.


The DVR numbers are in % higher for the friday show than what they usually are on wednesday's, that mean that people know that the show is on friday but they can't or don't want to watch it at 10pm.


----------



## rbl85

The Legit DMD said:


> *This isn't true. I'm watching the playoffs literally right now and there's an AEW Friday advertisement during every single commercial break. That's millions of people seeing that they've moved to Fridays. They have absolutely no excuse.*


So for you Dynamite should be doing the same numbers than they usually do on wednesday's ?


----------



## French Connection

The Legit DMD said:


> *I could have sworn we got told a month ago that the core fan base wasn't going anywhere and our complaining was doing nothing. Half the audience must have instantly forgotten that AEW is the greatest show on television. This is what we were told after blood and guts.*


If causality and analysis sound Arabic for you, then watch the numbers and do not conclude anything.


----------



## VIP86

The Legit DMD said:


> *I could have sworn we got told a month ago that the core fan base wasn't going anywhere and our complaining was doing nothing. Half the audience must have instantly forgotten that AEW is the greatest show on television. This is what we were told after blood and guts.*


when they changed time slots last year, the "loyal" fans largely followed them and they did close to their normal number

when they changed time slots this year, the "loyal" fans largely did not follow them and they did nowhere close to their normal number

looks like the "loyal" fans don't have the same interest level anymore
i wonder why


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

VIP86 said:


> when they changed time slots last year, the "loyal" fans largely followed them and they did close to their normal number
> 
> when they changed time slots this year, the "loyal" fans largely did not follow them and they did nowhere close to their normal number
> 
> looks like the "loyal" fans don't have the same interest level anymore
> i wonder why


*Yeah, the NBA playoffs definitely happened last year. Interesting how it's only a problem this year.*


----------



## bdon

TNT doesn’t give one fuck about this show.


----------



## VIP86

anybody heard from the "Demo God" lately
i don't see him tweeting about the DEMO
i'm afraid he may have lost his Godly Powers
the Reality God must have struck him Down in some God on God conflicts


----------



## DammitChrist

Is the simple fact about how Friday nights (10 PM-12 AM) is an awful time slot for them (even for other wrestling fans) such a foreign concept for some of you?

We're *actually *questioning their loyalty because of 1 change that isn't doing their live viewership any favors. The doom-and-gloom is seriously getting out of hand atm.

Seriously, I bet they'd still be getting AT LEAST 800 K viewers on their normal time slot on Wednesday nights.

TNT really needs to quit moving Dynamite around so often.

I honestly prefer the idea that someone else on here had about them just doing their occasional episodes on Saturday nights on the normal time slot (8 PM-10 PM) for those special weeks where they'll be unavailable on Wednesday nights.


----------



## French Connection

According to @VIP86 and @The Legit DMD , Dynamite will stay around 400K viewer when they'll return on Wednesday.
Can we please save this to see how visionary they are?


----------



## Chan Hung

The Legit DMD said:


> *This isn't true. I'm watching the playoffs literally right now and there's an AEW Friday advertisement during every single commercial break. That's millions of people seeing that they've moved to Fridays. They have absolutely no excuse.*


So they've been really trying to promote it for Friday on TNT? Hmmm, then damn i dont know it just comes down to:

A) The time (Probably the single most influential issue here as to why the ratings are so bad, as it's just too late for wrestling show on a Friday)

B) Secondary issue may be presenting a rather flat card. However, i'd place my highest bet that the timeframe on a Friday night is going to be the reason.


----------



## One Shed

Just a few observations:

1. Everyone knows Friday night is the death night. Late Friday even more so.
2. Losing viewers week over week for your PPV fallout show is not good. Factor in the week before was a holiday weekend (traditionally lower viewership) as well.
3. These kind of time changes, especially for an entire month would be bad for any show in any genre.
4. They need to do some kind of big announcement/event for their first Wednesday show back (assuming the following several weeks are also in their normal slot). And no, not another tournament.
5. Meltzer's #1 source for info continues to be his own ass.


----------



## Mr316

AEW fans calling us trolls because we call it like we see it. Fact is, some of you are now okay with anything that AEW would produce. You find an excuse for everything and desperately try to turn it into a positive.

1.3 million watched Dynamite a month ago. It’s been going downhill since then. On top of that, they’re in horrible timeslots for a full month because Warner couldn’t care less about AEW hence why they’re moving to TBS next year instead of the NHL.

Also, the ticket sales for AEW’s first show back on the road are a complete disaster. Look at the number of seats available in blue:


----------



## Chan Hung

bdon said:


> TNT doesn’t give one fuck about this show.


I dont know about this. I think they've seen what AEW has done ratings wise, and wants to do their best to keep them promoted as well as possible so they can market their ads on their program.


----------



## VIP86

French Connection said:


> According to @VIP86 and @The Legit DMD , Dynamite will stay around 400K viewer when they'll return on Wednesday.
> Can we please save this to see how visionary they are?


can you point out where exactly did i say this
i want you to give me the exact post where i said this
i'm waiting
but if you can't find it, do you have the courage to apologise for lying


----------



## CovidFan

The Legit DMD said:


> *Yeah, the NBA playoffs definitely happened last year. Interesting how it's only a problem this year.*


They did happen last year and it was clearly a problem when they were going on. However, only one edition of Dynamite was moved to a different night (Saturday). That night was down 16% from the previous Dynamite and the following Dynamite was up 23%.

and fwiw I do agree that the rating's abysmal even with the different night excuse but it's hilarious how ott your posts are.


----------



## Chan Hung

I know people don't want to read what i'm about to type, but when you have a weekly show moved around a lot, it gives a perception of it being not so important. Take a look at Raw, it's rarely moved and i think one reason why it's done so well is that it's been consistant. Perhaps the TBS move will alleviate this mess.


----------



## Mr316

bdon said:


> TNT doesn’t give one fuck about this show.


This is the cold hard truth right there. And it’s so obvious.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

VIP86 said:


> can you point out where exactly did i say this
> i want you to give me the exact post where i said this
> i'm waiting
> but if you can't find it, do you have the courage to apologise for lying


*Just ignore the blatant baiting, flaming and trolling. Don't let them Wood you.*


----------



## ProjectGargano

Mr316 said:


> AEW fans calling us trolls because we call it like we see it. Fact is, some of you are now okay with anything that AEW would produce. You find an excuse for everything and desperately try to turn it into a positive.
> 
> 1.3 million watched Dynamite a month ago. It’s been going downhill since then. On top of that, they’re in horrible timeslots for a full month because Warner couldn’t care less about AEW hence why they’re moving to TBS next year instead of the NHL.
> 
> Also, the ticket sales for AEW’s first show back on the road are a complete disaster. Look at the number of seats available in blue:
> 
> View attachment 102429


You are being dishonest. They opened a double of the seats this week. Initially they opened only 2300 seats (because Covid) and they sold out all of them and this week they opened more 2200 seats. And they have sold at this moment 2900 seats and the max capacity is 4600. It is expected more than 4000 attendance for the first 3 shows on the road. Cedar Park and Garland have more than 3600 tickets sold already and lefts more than a month till the shows.


----------



## Mr316

ProjectGargano said:


> You are being dishonest. They opened a double of the seats this week. Initially they opened only 2300 seats (because Covid) and they sold out all of them and this week they opened more 2200 seats. And they have sold at this moment 2900 seats and the max capacity is 4600. It is expected more than 4000 attendance for the first 3 shows on the road. Cedar Park and Garland have more than 3600 tickets sold already and lefts more than a month till the shows.


Stop listening to Meltzer. Mark my words, all these shows will have no one on the hard cam side. I know how ticket sales work. A lot of sections haven’t even been opened because they haven’t sold enough tickets in the most important sections.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *Just ignore the blatant baiting, flaming and trolling. Don't let them Wood you.*


You've been doing exactly just that to @rbl85 and the other fans on here with the passive aggressive attacks.


----------



## Mr316

ProjectGargano said:


> You are being dishonest. They opened a double of the seats this week. Initially they opened only 2300 seats (because Covid) and they sold out all of them and this week they opened more 2200 seats. And they have sold at this moment 2900 seats and the max capacity is 4600. It is expected more than 4000 attendance for the first 3 shows on the road. Cedar Park and Garland have more than 3600 tickets sold already and lefts more than a month till the shows.


2300 tickets sold? Only 2200 left? Look at all the available seats! 😂😂


----------



## ProjectGargano

Mr316 said:


> Stop listening to Meltzer. Mark my words, all these shows will have no one on the hard cam side. I know how ticket sales work. A lot of sections haven’t even been opened because they haven’t sold enough tickets in the most important sections.


It's not Meltzer, is Ticketmaster. 



https://mobile.twitter.com/AEWTicketInfo



If you want real information you have these account. So stop saying lies and being a troll.


----------



## Mr316

ProjectGargano said:


> It's not Meltzer, is Ticketmaster.
> 
> 
> 
> https://mobile.twitter.com/AEWTicketInfo
> 
> 
> 
> If you want real information you have these account. So stop saying lies and being a troll.


Unavailable doesn’t mean they were sold. Learn how to read.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Mr316 said:


> Unavailable doesn’t mean they were sold. Learn how to read.


In this case it means because now they opened almost full capacity. Stop creating your own narrative. The truth is that 1 month till the show and they have almost 2900 ticket sold to Miami, +3700 to Cedar Park-Austin, +3600 to Garland.


----------



## KrysRaw1

horrible rating ! In the words of Christine Jarrett wrestling fans are creatures of habit


----------



## Mr316

ProjectGargano said:


> In this case it means because now they opened almost full capacity. Stop creating your own narrative. The truth is that 1 month till the show and they have almost 2900 ticket sold to Miami, +3600 to Cedar Park-Austin, +3700 to Garland.


Sure. Can’t wait for the half empty arena pictures and hear more excuses.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Mr316 said:


> Sure. Can’t wait for the half empty arena pictures and hear more excuses.


Like Double or Nothing. It was empty too.


----------



## Mr316

ProjectGargano said:


> Like Double or Nothing. It was empty too.


Why are you talking about DoN? I’m talking about their upcoming shows on the road.


----------



## DammitChrist

Mr316 said:


> Why are you talking about DoN? I’m talking about their upcoming shows on the road.


He was obviously saying that the upcoming shows in July will sell well just like it did for Double or Nothing.

Sheesh, it's like you're rooting for this fun alternative to 'fail'; but yet pretend that you 'want to see it get better.'


----------



## 3venflow

Mr316 said:


> Sure. Can’t wait for the half empty arena pictures and hear more excuses.


How many bans will it take for you to stop trolling? You are just constantly trying to antagonise people on here.

Ticket sales for upcoming shows are doing very well. The Miami show had sold most of its allocation until they put the other half of the facility on sale the other week after Miami relaxed its 50% rule.

And you cherry pick that one - without context - while completely ignoring the strong ticket sales for the Texas shows. Zero matches announced for these shows, a month out, and tickets are selling. Just like DON, which did a full house in a region they've been running non-stop for over a year.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1401914290500681729

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1401892441838530563
Even if every seat isn't full, these are on course to be profitable shows. WWE didn't sell out the majority of live shows pre-pandemic but still made money. Considering its TV rating average, AEW does a good job of converting the fans it has into paying customers via live shows and PPVs.


----------



## Mr316

DammitChrist said:


> He was obviously saying that the upcoming shows in July will sell well just like it did for Double or Nothing.
> 
> Sheesh, it's like you're rooting for this fun alternative to 'fail'; but yet pretend that you 'want to see it get better.'


It’s not a “fun” alternative. Could of been but...zero consistency.


----------



## Dr. Middy

The number actually going down isn't good. Makes me wonder if there are heavy DVR numbers, since really no show does good on late Friday night. 

Getting moved around though hopefully won't happen as much with TBS given there is much less in the way of live sports on the network. But it makes me wonder what they do this coming week if they push a better show or if they sort of coast and then bring out a big show for the Wednesday return. Guess we'll see.

Kinda weird though I get an almost celebratory vibe with the low number from some in here.


----------



## One Shed

Yeah, people have been stuck inside over a year. I imagine their live events will do very well. That is not their problem right now.


----------



## Dr. Middy

They 100% need to get out of Daily's Place ASAP at this point too. I don't exactly expect quick sellouts of the same building months in, and I think having a hotter live crowd at other locations will definitely help the show feel more alive and more exciting.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> They 100% need to get out of Daily's Place ASAP at this point too. I don't exactly expect quick sellouts of the same building months in, and I think having a hotter live crowd at other locations will definitely help the show feel more alive and more exciting.


*The fans aren't the problem, it's the booking.*


----------



## Chrome

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> They 100% need to get out of Daily's Place ASAP at this point too. I don't exactly expect quick sellouts of the same building months in, and I think having a hotter live crowd at other locations will definitely help the show feel more alive and more exciting.


Yeah I'm sick of that place too lol. Different arenas and environments will be very refreshing.


----------



## CM Buck

@Chrome can you handle the reports for this thread today? Its given me a headache already


----------



## Dr. Middy

The Legit DMD said:


> *The fans aren't the problem, it's the booking.*


Regardless of whatever booking problems you or I may think exist, it would still help if they started going back to different arenas instead of having most likely a lot of the same fans show up every week no?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> Regardless of whatever booking problems you or I may think exist, it would still help if they started going back to different arenas instead of having most likely a lot of the same fans show up every week no?


*That's definitely the least of their issues. It's so minor it's not even worth discussing in comparison to the egregious s*** we see every week.*


----------



## Dr. Middy

The Legit DMD said:


> *That's definitely the least of their issues. It's so minor it's not even worth discussing in comparison to the egregious s*** we see every week.*


Sure then. 

But yeah, they should at the very least trying to book better shows even with the bad timeslot, hopefully they do this coming week. Last week's show was quite weak, one of their weakest in awhile. I was actually baffled they main evented with the bullrope match, the only thing I could think is that they tried to put anything meaningful in the first hour because of the timing, but even that didn't exactly explain everything.


----------



## VIP86

i'm voting Yes Yes Yes for moving out of Daily's Place
and also changing the setting
this short ramp that connects to the Ring is boring as hell
i want to see the wrestlers walking out and interacting with the fans left and right
not jumping from a short ramp directly to the Ring
moving to another arena should at least give it a more professional and fresh Look


----------



## Klitschko

LazyMark said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1402016403289477128
> 462,000 viewers apparently. Yikes


Jesus christ. This is close to Impact numbers. It's a mix of TNT fucking them over hard, and AEW just quitting and putting on a shit show this week. I was off by about 200k as well.


----------



## TheFiend666

Thank God they sign Big show and Mark Henry for some advice


----------



## Klitschko

Like @The Doctor Middy Experience said earlier. I also get a vibe that a lot of people I'm here are celebrating this rating. It's sad that the show did bad. They have their issues, but I dont want it to die. Also, the ratings will go back up in a few weeks when they get back in their regular night and when they go to TBS. Yes AEW is to blame partially for the lower then last week ratings, but it's also the day and the time as well. I don't think anyone should take for granted just how much it has impacted them. 

They have been getting 800k-1.2 million for the last few weeks, and the moment they move to Friday at 10pm, they end up with two of their lowest ratings ever. Cmon guys, we all know this is the real reason here.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Klitschko said:


> Like @The Doctor Middy Experience said earlier. I also get a vibe that a lot of people I'm here are celebrating this rating. It's sad that the show did bad. They have their issues, but I dont want it to die. Also, the ratings will go back up in a few weeks when they get back in their regular night and when they go to TBS. Yes AEW is to blame partially for the lower then last week ratings, but it's also the day and the time as well. I don't think anyone should take for granted just how much it has impacted them.
> 
> They have been getting 800k-1.2 million for the last few weeks, and the moment they move to Friday at 10pm, they end up with two of their lowest ratings ever. Cmon guys, we all know this is the real reason here.


*The problem is they were steadily dropping since going unopposed, then had lackluster shows going into the Friday switch and even worse shows after the switch. It's cause for celebration because this means they will have no choice but to make significant changes or deal with constant ratings drops every single week. They can no longer coast on the fact that they will have 800k - 1 million blind diehards to faithfully tune in every single week, no matter what bullshit they put on our TV screens. This should be a massive wake up call.*


----------



## Klitschko

The Legit DMD said:


> *The problem is they were steadily dropping since going unopposed, then had lackluster shows going into the Friday switch and even worse shows after the switch. It's cause for celebration because this means they will have no choice but to make significant changes or deal with constant ratings drops every single week. They can no longer coast on the fact that they will have 800k - 1 million blind diehards to faithfully tune in every single week, no matter what bullshit they put on our TV screens. This should be a massive wake up call.*


I do think it should be a wake up call to everyone actually. Even though their ratings will go up when they move back to Wednesday. The reason I say this is because they have always had a dedicated 700k fans that would watch no matter what. If one week was low, then the next would be up because these hardcore fans were there and they wanted them to succeed. This shows that there is around 500k of their hardcore fans that are willing to watch them whenever left. At least from the way I see it.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *The problem is they were steadily dropping since going unopposed, then had lackluster shows going into the Friday switch and even worse shows after the switch. It's cause for celebration because this means they will have no choice but to make significant changes or deal with constant ratings drops every single week. They can no longer coast on the fact that they will have 800k - 1 million blind diehards to faithfully tune in every single week, no matter what bullshit they put on our TV screens. This should be a massive wake up call.*


Thank you for blatantly admitting the fact that you wanted to see them suffer, and that you wanted to celebrate for such a silly reason (simply because their fun shows appeal to many wrestling fans, but not yourself).

No, they shouldn't make significant changes just because TNT moved them to the Friday night death slot for 1 month. You for damn sure should know by now that they'd easily retain 800 K viewers on their regular slot on Wednesday nights with their usual booking.

It's just sad that you seem to be pulling for this fun alternative to 'fail' here.

For the record, once again, you're using yet another negative label to wrestling fans who actually enjoy their product.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Klitschko said:


> I do think it should be a wake up call to everyone actually. Even though their ratings will go up when they move back to Wednesday. The reason I say this is because they have always had a dedicated 700k fans that would watch no matter what. If one week was low, then the next would be up because these hardcore fans were there and they wanted them to succeed. This shows that there is around 500k of their hardcore fans that are willing to watch them whenever left. At least from the way I see it.


*I expect 700k when they come back, but guess what? That's still a drop from their previous Wednesday numbers, and a significant decline from their 1.2 million starting point. That means they ran off 500,000 people in a little over a month. A lot of things aren't working right now, and they need to acknowledge that, so these abysmal ratings are fantastic news in that regard.*


----------



## Chan Hung

TheFiend666 said:


> Thank God they sign Big show and Mark Henry for some advice


Hey Mark Henry said AEW didn't need 'any fixing' lol


----------



## thorn123

That was still the best wrestling programme of the week.

I am starting to wonder whether the viewers will come back when they are back on wednesday.


----------



## .christopher.

Chrome said:


> Shut up.


Our Super Moderator, ladies and gentlemen.

No wonder this site is in the shitter.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *I expect 700k when they come back, but guess what? That's still a drop from their previous Wednesday numbers, and a significant decline from their 1.2 million starting point. That means they ran off 500,000 people in a little over a month. A lot of things aren't working right now, and they need to acknowledge that, so these abysmal ratings are fantastic news in that regard.*


Nah, they don't need to acknowledge your complaints since you're obviously biased against them most of the time, and this is obviously not "fantastic" news.

However, the good news though is that they won't need to make any unnecessary, big changes (suggested by the doom-and-gloom vibes here) since they'll pretty much go back to their usual good numbers once they get back to the road in July.


----------



## Seth Grimes

Firefromthegods said:


> @Chrome can you handle the reports for this thread today? Its given me a headache already


Funny cause people constantly moan about how dead this place is, yet here we are with everyone reporting each other trying to get each other banned because they said something about their favourite show. How dare they mock our tiny peni- numbers! How dare these trolls (anyone that disagrees with me) talk like this! Eventually there's gonna be 10 people left on this entire forum and they'll stop posting cause all of them share the same opinion so there's nothing to say


----------



## Seth Grimes

.christopher. said:


> Our Super Moderator, ladies and gentlemen.
> 
> No wonder this site is in the shitter.


Watch out he might leak your IP address next


----------



## .christopher.

Seth Grimes said:


> Funny cause people constantly moan about how dead this place is, yet here we are with everyone reporting each other trying to get each other banned because they said something about their favourite show. How dare they mock our tiny peni- numbers! How dare these trolls (anyone that disagrees with me) talk like this! Eventually there's gonna be 10 people left on this entire forum and they'll stop posting cause all of them share the same opinion so there's nothing to say


I haven't seen anyone do anything the least bit ban worthy, and I see there's been multiple reports? You hit the nail on the head.


Seth Grimes said:


> Watch out he might leak your IP address next


Before he does that, he may want to address the elephant in the room that even a fellow mod called him out on. He keeps running away, though.


----------



## Seth Grimes

.christopher. said:


> I haven't seen anyone do anything the least bit ban worthy, and I see there's been multiple reports? You hit the nail on the head.
> 
> Before he does that, he may want to address the elephant in the room that even a fellow mod called him out on. He keeps running away, though.


We're talking about a guy who literally tried baiting certain members, then banned them, just cause he didn't like their opinions on his favourite wrasslin show. You shouldn't expect much


----------



## CM Buck

Seth Grimes said:


> Funny cause people constantly moan about how dead this place is, yet here we are with everyone reporting each other trying to get each other banned because they said something about their favourite show. How dare they mock our tiny peni- numbers! How dare these trolls (anyone that disagrees with me) talk like this! Eventually there's gonna be 10 people left on this entire forum and they'll stop posting cause all of them share the same opinion so there's nothing to say


Oh don't worry both sides of each camps are petty fucking idiots today. This thread is just usually the source of SOME not all critics and fans being as sensitive and emotional and irrational as an overtired toddler


----------



## elo

Tony's best play would have been to continue running the show at Wednesday 8pm online via FITE etc and negotiating for TNT to show replays whenever they could squeeze it in whilst running it live on a secondary channel. Timeslot moves are rough enough as it is, let alone a Friday 10pm slot as the weather warms up in NA, schools are out and people have more freedom to go out and travel again as COVID rules are relaxed.

The live show on Saturday in a couple of weeks time should see the number back over 600k for the *live* viewership (maybe higher if they load it with more than just Kenny v Jungle Boy) but don't expect any changes on the Friday night shows, especially as they move to tape from this week also. The second hour of these Friday shows I expect to be close to Dark quality, just matches between older guys and younger guys with very little storyline movement.....it's probably the right way to go with so few eyeballs watching the product at that time.


----------



## Chan Hung

elo said:


> Tony's best play would have been to continue running the show at Wednesday 8pm online via FITE etc and negotiating for TNT to show replays whenever they could squeeze it in whilst running it live on a secondary channel. Timeslot moves are rough enough as it is, let alone a Friday 10pm slot as the weather warms up in NA, schools are out and people have more freedom to go out and travel again as COVID rules are relaxed.
> 
> The live show on Saturday in a couple of weeks time should see the number back over 600k for the *live* viewership (maybe higher if they load it with more than just Kenny v Jungle Boy) but don't expect any changes on the Friday night shows, especially as they move to tape from this week also. The second hour of these Friday shows I expect to be close to Dark quality, just matches between older guys and younger guys with very little storyline movement.....it's probably the right way to go with so few eyeballs watching the product at that time.


Pretty interesting points.

And , wow, you joined in 2006? I wonder if there's anyone here who's been around longer?


----------



## RapShepard

DaveRA said:


> That was still the best wrestling programme of the week.
> 
> I am starting to wonder whether the viewers will come back when they are back on wednesday.


You don't believe that


----------



## kingfunkel

Cornette always says your ratings are usually a reflection on the show you did prior. The 05/28 card and show was the shits. So I'm not surprised it dropped, who would go out of their way to watch that shit again.


----------



## YamchaRocks

They really need to make the show more casual friendly and easy to get into for new fans.

I remember how it was being 12 years old when I discovered RAW in 2007. 2007 was lackluster, but two-three weeks and I knew the chierarchy of characters, who were the main characters, who secondary and who supportive, who disliked who, who's a heel and face.

I can't imagine 12 yo me coming across Dynamite and liking/understanding it.

Hell, I often have a hard time following it as a smark who's been watching wrestling for 14 years(with brakes).

And attracting kids is the only way to gain new wrestling fans.


----------



## CM Buck

.christopher. said:


> Our Super Moderator, ladies and gentlemen.
> 
> No wonder this site is in the shitter.


Do you really want this forum to ban the term "shut up" ?


----------



## KingofKings1524

Just lol at both sides “reporting” each other. Grow up. As for the rating, it’s to be expected. I’m one of their more loyal viewers I imagine and I’m not staying home on a Friday night to watch Dynamite live. My guess is the rating will return to “normal” once they return to Wednesday. But they can’t keep shifting it around and expect all of the core audience to return. It would also help if AEW would stop booking these Friday shows like they don’t give a shit. I can’t imagine too many people are thrilled with a Dustin Rhodes main event against a relative nobody. It may be better than a demonic doll stalking people to close the show, but it’s not a draw either.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lol, this thread is funny again

good job guys


----------



## thorn123

RapShepard said:


> You don't believe that


Mate I have been a fan of WWE since 1985 and now I cant get through an episode of Raw or Smackdown. I find AEW fun and refreshing (even with it's obvious flaws). Each to their own though.


----------



## Geert Wilders

KingofKings1524 said:


> Just lol at both sides “reporting” each other. Grow up. As for the rating, it’s to be expected. I’m one of their more loyal viewers I imagine and I’m not staying home on a Friday night to watch Dynamite live. My guess is the rating will return to “normal” once they return to Wednesday. But they can’t keep shifting it around and expect all of the core audience to return. It would also help if AEW would stop booking these Friday shows like they don’t give a shit. I can’t imagine too many people are thrilled with a Dustin Rhodes main event against a relative nobody. It may be better than a demonic doll stalking people to close the show, but it’s not a draw either.


I believe these shows were booked with the idea that “nobody will watch anyway”. It is the wrong way to book. You want people to think “damn I wish I did not miss the show” so that future shows do not get the same treatment.


----------



## TheGreatBanana

That last show from last week was utter garbage and all over the place. How can you end the show with Golddust who’s well past his prime and was never a big attraction in wrestling.

Everytime I watch AEW it’s super indy, I don’t want to watch stupid fucking Indy crap. I want a mainstream alternative like WCW was for WWF. AEW is incapable of being mainstream and their whole presentation sucks at it. You look at the simple things like set designs, graphics etc between WWE and AEW and it’s a night and day difference. If you wanna be a big dog you have to present yourself as such.

When people were celebrating that 1.2mil viewers they acted super cocky etc, I told them wait till they go to Friday or Monday and go head to head against Raw or Smackdown. They’ll get hammered. Dynamite is on Friday and not even going head to head with Smackdown and it’s still getting hammered even outside of Memorial weekend. That’s even more embarrassing. AEW should be ashamed and needs to reflect on what they’re doing wrong. It’s laughable to think that people there was a war between AEW and NXT. It’s even more laughable when idiots like Khan and Jericho boast their ratings, stay humble, improve your product and grow.


----------



## yeahright2

TheGreatBanana said:


> That last show from last week was utter garbage and all over the place. How can you end the show with Golddust who’s well past his prime and was never a big attraction in wrestling.
> 
> Everytime I watch AEW it’s super indy, I don’t want to watch stupid fucking Indy crap. I want a mainstream alternative like WCW was for WWF. AEW is incapable of being mainstream and their whole presentation sucks at it. You look at the simple things like set designs, graphics etc between WWE and AEW and it’s a night and day difference. If you wanna be a big dog you have to present yourself as such.
> 
> *When people were celebrating that 1.2mil viewers they acted super cocky etc,* I told them wait till they go to Friday or Monday and go head to head against Raw or Smackdown. They’ll get hammered. Dynamite is on Friday and not even going head to head with Smackdown and it’s still getting hammered even outside of Memorial weekend. That’s even more embarrassing. AEW should be ashamed and needs to reflect on what they’re doing wrong. It’s laughable to think that people there was a war between AEW and NXT. It’s even more laughable when idiots like Khan and Jericho boast their ratings, stay humble, improve your product and grow.


And that´s why some of the other guys are leaning on them now. If you can´t take it, don´t dish it out.


----------



## rbl85

Geert Wilders said:


> I believe these shows were booked with the idea that “nobody will watch anyway”. It is the wrong way to book. You want people to think “damn I wish I did not miss the show” so that future shows do not get the same treatment.


At best they would do mid 500K.

Still it's funny to see the overreaction of some trolls on this topic.

Because someone who compare a 8pm rating with a friday 10pm rating for me is a troll.


----------



## Geert Wilders

rbl85 said:


> At best they would do mid 500K.
> 
> Still it's funny to see the overreaction of some trolls on this topic.
> 
> Because someone who compare a 8pm rating with a friday 10pm rating for me is a troll.


At that time slot definitely. I have chosen to ignore commenting on the ratings from the last 2 weeks because they are anomalies when considering the usual ratings.

However, we cannot write off the ratings completely. there is something to be said about the drop in rating from 2 weeks ago to last week.


----------



## rbl85

Geert Wilders said:


> At that time slot definitely. I have chosen to ignore commenting on the ratings from the last 2 weeks because they are anomalies when considering the usual ratings.
> 
> However, we cannot write off the ratings completely. there is something to be said about the drop in rating from 2 weeks ago to last week.


The saturday show is at 8pm or 10pm ?


----------



## Geert Wilders

rbl85 said:


> The saturday show is at 8pm or 10pm ?


If it is at 8pm there is no doubt in my mind that it will reach similar ratings to a normal Wednesday. 10pm is just too late. 

If we consider the audience - at 10pm, half will be in bed after a long day at work and the other half will be out partying. Especially on a Friday or Saturday night.


----------



## reamstyles

I think some opinions about tweaking the roster might be jot fully wrong, yun smarks hate guys shoving on our throats but teens and kids dig it..


----------



## VIP86

what they should hope for is that the lost viewers (359,000) since the last wednesday episode (May 19) at least, don't get used to watching the show on DVR (if they did)
wrestling fans are creatures of habit
if they get comfortable watching the show on DVR commercial free, could mean trouble
TV networks advertisers never gonna value DVR nearly as much as Live TV
that's why AEW should have increased their Efforts during this Time Slot change
to try and retain as much as possible of their Core fanbase

but how can they understand this if they only listen to the "you're doing great guys" people


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

VIP86 said:


> what they should hope for is that the lost viewers (359,000) since the last wednesday episode (May 19) at least, don't get used to watching the show on DVR (if they did)
> wrestling fans are creatures of habit
> if they get comfortable watching the show on DVR commercial free, could mean trouble
> TV networks advertisers never gonna value DVR nearly as much as Live TV
> that's why AEW should have increased their Efforts during this Time Slot change
> to try and retain as much as possible of their Core fanbase
> 
> but how can they understand this if they only listen to the "you're doing great guys" people


*Let them keep listening to the people who refuse to acknowledge their stupid booking and they will kill their Wednesday audience as well.*


----------



## Mr316

When it comes to the product itself, many casuals and fans got exhausted. Myself got exhausted. Just way too many wrestlers that don’t belong on TV. Just too many wrestlers that show up, disappear for weeks and show up again. The format of the show is extremely repetitive and there’s a major lack of creativity. Too many titles that casual viewers have no idea what they are. Too many wrestlers that casual viewers don’t know where they come from. It has become way too niche.

They should of kept things simple. Focus on their top talents. No need to pick up a million wrestlers. Who cares if WWE picks them up. If Sting can’t draw better numbers, no one will. This show is all over the place and they will keep losing viewers in the future. The 2nd show won’t help.


----------



## rbl85

The Legit DMD said:


> *Let them keep listening to the people who refuse to acknowledge their stupid booking and they will kill their Wednesday audience as well.*


When are you going to understand that the booking is not going to change anything for the friday's ratings ?

For the wednesday shows ok but not on friday.


----------



## RapShepard

DaveRA said:


> Mate I have been a fan of WWE since 1985 and now I cant get through an episode of Raw or Smackdown. I find AEW fun and refreshing (even with it's obvious flaws). Each to their own though.


AEW most weeks is very interesting. But no, you know last week it wasn't the best anything. It's okay to not go overboard for it


----------



## Jaxon

Sometimes, just sometimes you have to admit that whatever day/time/channel AEW is on its a BAD number (this week especially). if you enjoyed the show its fine but a lot of people chose to do other things and watch it on delay and that's fine too. excuses after excuses and that's why this thread always turns into a war of words between the same people.


----------



## VIP86

Mr316 said:


> When it comes to the product itself, many casuals and fans got exhausted. Myself got exhausted. Just way too many wrestlers that don’t belong on TV. Just too many wrestlers that show up, disappear for weeks and show up again. The format of the show is extremely repetitive and there’s a major lack of creativity. Too many titles that casual viewers have no idea what they are. Too many wrestlers that casual viewers don’t know where they come from. It has become way too niche.
> 
> They should of kept things simple. Focus on their top talents. No need to pick up a million wrestlers. Who cares if WWE picks them up. If Sting can’t draw better numbers, no one will. This show is all over the place and they will keep losing viewers in the future. The 2nd show won’t help.


Exhausted, is a very accurate description (for me)
it's gone from "i can't believe the show has ended so fast already"
To "i can't believe only 30 minutes has passed"
i used to watch several episode in a row, easy (when i miss any)
now i need multiple breaks per episode


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

VIP86 said:


> Exhausted, is a very accurate description (for me)
> it's gone from "i can't believe the show has ended so fast already"
> To "i can't believe only 30 minutes has passed"
> i used to watch several episode in a row, easy (when i miss any)
> now i need multiple breaks per episode


*The Young Bucks match is usually my break, but unfortunately they opened the show.*


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> The salt over Dave Meltzer here 😂


I mean he's an in real life horrible person and a piece of shit so I think people have the right to not like the guy.


----------



## .christopher.

Firefromthegods said:


> Do you really want this forum to ban the term "shut up" ?


You're smarter than that. Of course not. I do, however, want him to address a problem instead of running away because there's no consistency here.

The post he replied "shut up" to was me showing him that someone was insulting @The Legit DMD for no reason. Wood was banned because he was apparently the big bad instigator but, as you see, arguments still happen, and the AEWA still insult people who make legitimate points.

On the flip side, if wood was banned for trolling, which I disagree with anyway, why are the most obvious trolls still around? Either way, there's no consistency.

You yourself made these points and we got no answer:


Firefromthegods said:


> Yeah I didn't touch him. Okay @Chrome What do you want to do about the other side? If you want to stop this war it's not enough to go after the likes of wood. You have to go after the others who constantly label any form of criticism against aew as an attack on AEW.





Firefromthegods said:


> DC is a culprit. Alex0816 as well. YamchaRocks. I've had alot of people message me about the fact they hate being labelled just because they say something bad about AEW


----------



## Dark Emperor

VIP86 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1401257773791268865
> And yet you were so quick to declare this without having the sufficient information
> just because you desperately want to put the words "*AEW & UP Significantly*" in the same sentence
> that's the LA LA Land journalism



@RapShepard, i think it is pretty clear now who to believe between Meltzer & Wrestlenomics on AEW PPV numbers.

As soon as Showbuzzdaily goes bust, he starts reporting preliminary numbers and surprise surprise, AEW was 'up significantly' . Very identical to his PPV reports that is taken as gospel and never get verified unlike the ratings.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Dark Emperor said:


> @RapShepard, i think it is pretty clear now who to believe between Meltzer & Wrestlenomics on AEW PPV numbers.
> 
> As soon as Showbuzzdaily goes bust, he starts reporting preliminary numbers and surprise surprise, AEW was 'up significantly' . Very identical to his PPV reports that is taken as gospel and never get verified unlike the ratings.


*It's almost like we've been saying Meltzer is full of s*** on everything AEW related for months. 







*


----------



## CM Buck

.christopher. said:


> You're smarter than that. Of course not. I do, however, want him to address a problem instead of running away because there's no consistency here.
> 
> The post he replied "shut up" to was me showing him that someone was insulting @The Legit DMD for no reason. Wood was banned because he was apparently the big bad instigator but, as you see, arguments still happen, and the AEWA still insult people who make legitimate points.
> 
> On the flip side, if wood was banned for trolling, which I disagree with anyway, why are the most obvious trolls still around? Either way, there's no consistency.
> 
> You yourself made these points and we got no answer:


He already addressed it. He basically said he doesn't hate aew critics if he did he would have just shit canned every critic or any poster that critiqued aew. I'd be gone if that was the case

You're not going to get a response dude. You're just going to get in shit if you come after him outside of rants. At best his going to ignore you and at worst you get permed for attacking a mod outside of rants which is within the rules of modding.

Woods gone, it sucks cause there's worse than him here, but his replaceable. DMDs basically the number 1 critic now.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Firefromthegods said:


> He already addressed it. He basically said he doesn't hate aew critics if he did he would have just shit canned every critic or any poster that critiqued aew. I'd be gone if that was the case
> 
> You're not going to get a response dude. You're just going to get in shit if you come after him outside of rants. At best his going to ignore you and at worst you get permed for attacking a mod outside of rants which is within the rules of modding.
> 
> Woods gone, it sucks cause there's worse than him here, but his replaceable. DMDs basically the number 1 critic now.


They have a heel faction and when the leader is banned they have a meeting to choose the replacement. First was Chip, then The Wood and now they chose DMD.


----------



## El Hammerstone

ProjectGargano said:


> They have a heel faction and when the leader is banned they have a meeting to choose the replacement. First was Chip, then The Wood and now they chose DMD.


Let's not get it twisted, you guys chose DMD


----------



## .christopher.

Firefromthegods said:


> He already addressed it. He basically said he doesn't hate aew critics if he did he would have just shit canned every critic or any poster that critiqued aew. I'd be gone if that was the case
> 
> You're not going to get a response dude. You're just going to get in shit if you come after him outside of rants. At best his going to ignore you and at worst you get permed for attacking a mod outside of rants which is within the rules of modding.
> 
> Woods gone, it sucks cause there's worse than him here, but his replaceable. DMDs basically the number 1 critic now.


I don't think it has been addressed, though. What's the legitimate reason for the bans? Even AEW fans who disliked wood were puzzled by it in the ban thread.

Banning the "angry aussies" was supposed to solve everything. Then the AEWA turned to wood. Banning wood was supposed to solve it, and now you've got the AEWA insulting the likes of @The Legit DMD , @VIP86 , @RainmakerV2 and calling them trolls. One of them actually asked if dmd should be banned for trolling despite posting nothing different than usual. Are those 3 next in line for bans because, according to the AEWA, they're now instigating the negativity?

And I'm not saying the AEWAs should be banned. I don't think anyone has warranted one in this section, but this section has no consistency and is way too soft, and I'm fine with "getting in shit" by addressing this mess.


----------



## RainmakerV2

That's right guys, everyone was going over each other's houses at 11 pm on a Friday night holding Dynamite viewing parties. That's why the number was so low. Of course! Why didn't I think of that???


----------



## VIP86

RainmakerV2 said:


> View attachment 102488
> 
> 
> 
> That's right guys, everyone was going over each other's houses at 11 pm on a Friday night holding Dynamite viewing parties. That's why the number was so low. Of course! Why didn't I think of that???


🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
wait, let me take a breath
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## RainmakerV2

VIP86 said:


> 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
> wait, let me take a breath
> 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣



It's almost sad that that's not from a parody account and actually from a "wrestling journalist." I mean let's be real, dudes on the fuckin payroll.


----------



## CovidFan

.christopher. said:


> Banning the "angry aussies" was supposed to solve everything. Then the AEWA turned to wood. Banning wood was supposed to solve it


I'm not sure why you think that. It's not like all the haters got banned so there was/is always going to be some conflict here. DMD for some reason decided to go off the deep end yesterday in celebrating AEW's ratings fail. So odd for someone who supposedly wants to see them succeed...


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RainmakerV2 said:


> View attachment 102488
> 
> 
> 
> That's right guys, everyone was going over each other's houses at 11 pm on a Friday night holding Dynamite viewing parties. That's why the number was so low. Of course! Why didn't I think of that???


*He's a parody of himself at this point. This is incredibly embarrassing.

Edit: I couldn't find that tweet on his page, so it might be fake, but I did find this:


 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1401983623721484289
So let's see how quickly people change their tune about ratings not affecting booking because Meltzer said otherwise.*


----------



## .christopher.

CovidFan said:


> I'm not sure why you think that. It's not like all the haters got banned so there was/is always going to be some conflict here. DMD for some reason decided to go off the deep end yesterday in celebrating AEW's ratings fail. So odd for someone who supposedly wants to see them succeed...


It's not because he wants them to fail, though. It's in the hopes that the ratings become so bad, it causes AEW to rethink their plans, put more effort in, and produce a better product as a result. I get that logic because AEW has the talent to put on a good show. They just need a more coherent structure to their show.


----------



## VIP86

the mental Gymnastics are creative though, i'll give him that
family reunions are the reason for the fake low Ratings
🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

.christopher. said:


> It's not because he wants them to fail, though. It's in the hopes that the ratings become so bad, it causes AEW to rethink their plans, put more effort in, and produce a better product as a result. I get that logic because AEW has the talent to put on a good show. They just need a more coherent structure to their show.


*I've explicitly stated this multiple times and I don't like repeating myself, so thank you for using logic.*


----------



## RainmakerV2

CovidFan said:


> I'm not sure why you think that. It's not like all the haters got banned so there was/is always going to be some conflict here. DMD for some reason decided to go off the deep end yesterday in celebrating AEW's ratings fail. So odd for someone who supposedly wants to see them succeed...


Because there has to be push back against the supermarks if the company is ever gonna truly succeed. The mental gymnastics people are trying to do to justify the number is just ridiculous. Why can't you just say " it was a bad show in a death slot and did a horrible number "? Like..Whats wrong with saying that? Instead all these people are doing advanced algebra to for some reason get around saying the show sucked. It's like they're petrified to say anything negative about Tony Khan.


It's almost like they're...


On his payroll or...something?


----------



## One Shed

Wait, wait. I want to make sure I am reading this correctly. Dave is claiming over a million people actually watched Dynamite live on Friday night???


----------



## Dr. Middy

Two Sheds said:


> Wait, wait. I want to make sure I am reading this correctly. Dave is claiming over a million people actually watched Dynamite live on Friday night???


The only thing I can presume is that he thinks enough people are watching in groups that the actual 500K or so number is way off. 

I mean if you add in the DVR stuff maybe it looks better, but it doesn't really detract from the actual rating being still not good regardless.

I like Dave, but he does put his foot in his mouth with takes sometimes.


----------



## One Shed

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> The only thing I can presume is that he thinks enough people are watching in groups that the actual 500K or so number is way off.
> 
> I mean if you add in the DVR stuff maybe it looks better, but it doesn't really detract from the actual rating being still not good regardless.
> 
> I like Dave, but he does put his foot in his mouth with takes sometimes.


Good to know over 4 million people are watching SmackDown live too. Dave's ass is not a valid source for info heh.


----------



## Mr316

RainmakerV2 said:


> View attachment 102488
> 
> 
> 
> That's right guys, everyone was going over each other's houses at 11 pm on a Friday night holding Dynamite viewing parties. That's why the number was so low. Of course! Why didn't I think of that???


This is getting straight up sad. Clearly he’s under Tony Khan’s payroll. You can feel the desperation.


----------



## Mr316

Next week’s viewership: 1.

Meltzer: 955k fans got together in the same basement to watch the show.

😂


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Mr316 said:


> Next week’s viewership: 1.
> 
> Meltzer: 955k fans got together in the same basement to watch the show.
> 
> 😂


*Nah, a bunch of average guys pooled their money together to rent stadiums and project Dynamite onto football fields.*


----------



## rbl85

Two Sheds said:


> Wait, wait. I want to make sure I am reading this correctly. Dave is claiming over a million people actually watched Dynamite live on Friday night???


Stop being a sheep and try to find information by yourself, by doing so you would have find out that this tweet is fake.


----------



## Deathiscoming

.christopher. said:


> It's not because he wants them to fail, though. It's in the hopes that the ratings become so bad, it causes AEW to* rethink their plans, put more effort in, and produce a better product as a result*. I get that logic because AEW has the talent to put on a good show. They just need a more coherent structure to their show.


I've typed that exact same thing in a blatantly celebratory tone for a dozen times in the Raw ratings thread, bluntly stating "Can't wait for the viewership to go down to 1.5Million" for that exact same reason. Imagine doing that in this thread....


----------



## VIP86

next episode will be UP
i'm sticking to my 700K
I am optimistic


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

VIP86 said:


> next episode will be UP
> i'm sticking to my 700K
> I am optimistic


*I tried it twice and got burned, so I'm staying low. 450 k.*


----------



## bdon

TheGreatBanana said:


> That last show from last week was utter garbage and all over the place. How can you end the show with Golddust who’s well past his prime and was never a big attraction in wrestling.


Take a guess why…?

Cody ruins this fucking company…


----------



## yeahright2

The Legit DMD said:


> *He's a parody of himself at this point. This is incredibly embarrassing.
> 
> Edit: I couldn't find that tweet on his page, so it might be fake, but I did find this:
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1401983623721484289
> So let's see how quickly people change their tune about ratings not affecting booking because Meltzer said otherwise.*


Didn´t you get the message? TV ratings doesn´t matter at all.
But now the Gospel of Meltzer is out on this topic, I guess they do?


----------



## Kishido

So by the logic of Meltzer... Smackdown at least have 3 to 4 millions viewers because everyone is looking together...

In the prime they most likely had nearly 20 millions


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> Stop being a sheep and try to find information by yourself, by doing so you would have find out that this tweet is fake.


You may have noticed, but I ended that sentence with a question mark. As in, did he really say that? If not, then fine. No need for personal attacks.


----------



## rbl85

Two Sheds said:


> You may have noticed, but I ended that sentence with a question mark. As in, did he really say that? If not, then fine. No need for personal attacks.


It wasn't a personal attack.

Also i quoted the wrong person sorry.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic

rbl85 said:


> Stop being a sheep and try to find information by yourself, by doing so you would have find out that this tweet is fake.


The tweet may be fake. But he has made claims like this in the past on his show.

That they are in more homes and that the rating isn't the same as the amount of people watching


----------



## ripcitydisciple

ProjectGargano said:


> They have a heel faction and when the leader is banned they have a meeting to choose the replacement. First was Chip, then The Wood and now they chose DMD.


It's why I gave them the name The Guild. It's always next man up with them.


----------



## NondescriptWWEfan

RainmakerV2 said:


> View attachment 102488
> 
> 
> 
> That's right guys, everyone was going over each other's houses at 11 pm on a Friday night holding Dynamite viewing parties. That's why the number was so low. Of course! Why didn't I think of that???











big dave really grasping at straws


----------



## Geert Wilders

RainmakerV2 said:


> View attachment 102488
> 
> 
> 
> That's right guys, everyone was going over each other's houses at 11 pm on a Friday night holding Dynamite viewing parties. That's why the number was so low. Of course! Why didn't I think of that???


As a "reporter", he should not be trolling.

He's done IMO.


----------



## rbl85

Geert Wilders said:


> As a "reporter", he should not be trolling.
> 
> He's done IMO.


Except he never wrote or said that


----------



## Geert Wilders

rbl85 said:


> Except he never wrote or said that


The fact that i believed it shows what I think of Meltzer and his affiliation with AEW


----------



## holy

Speaking personally, I actually tuned in to the first Friday night Dynamite two weeks ago: I felt that because it's a Friday, they might make it a more special show. On top of that, it was the show before the PPV.

Unfortunately, the show that night was hot garbage: as I mentioned before, it felt like an episode of Sunday Night Heat with all of the jobbers.

So although I did watch bits of the PPV, I had mild interest in watching Dynamite last Friday, but I ultimately ended up not watching, and I think a reason for that was because I remembered how awful the show was the week before.

Also, I don't fully buy the excuse of AEW having low viewership because it was on Friday night. In my city (Calgary), people were outside last Wednesday night enjoying the summer weather. Every patio in downtown was packed as if it was a Friday night. I'm assuming it's a similar story in the States, where people want to be outside at night regardless of the day of the week during summer. 

Also, Smackdown airs on Friday nights too, and yeah it's on national TV compared to cable of Dynamite, but Smackdown draws near 2 million viewers.

Lastly, as I mentioned before, an entire month of Dynamite not being on Wednesdays may just drive off some of their regular fan base who had a habit of watching on Wed nights. They may no longer be used to that habit once Dynamite goes back to Wednesday nights. It could be as simple as those fans finding another hobby on Wednesday nights while Dynamite is on Fridays.


----------



## rbl85

Geert Wilders said:


> The fact that i believed it shows what I think of Meltzer and his affiliation with AEW


It certainly shows that you are biased


----------



## Klitschko

So now that the ratings seem to be dead, is this thread going to get closed?


----------



## rbl85

Klitschko said:


> So now that the ratings seem to be dead, is this thread going to get closed?


Nah what are the trolls going to do without it ?

They need it in their life.


----------



## Ger

I tried, but after reading a few postings (and already seeing the same people worshipping uncle Dave), I checked other pages for numbers. I see 462000 viewers and I think that number is pretty bad. It is so bad, that there are just no excuses left for that. I did not except the ratings dropping even more from last week. 

I just thought about, what some people wrote about AEW two years ago and when I see where we are now, it is seriously disappointing. Sure, we are all no experts here, so I don't blame anyone for (big mouthed) predictions about AEW's glory future and AEW bringing back wrestling big time. AEW program got endless money, lot of nice approaches, full support by Dave, but they are just another niche program. If they can't do it, I see nobody else "rescuing" wrestling. I am sad about that.

This AEW is better than WWE thingy, which I still read on several others threads on WF these days, becomes more and more strange meanwhile. It is like we would debate about two mouses in a water drum and which of them looks better.


----------



## elo

holy said:


> Also, Smackdown airs on Friday nights too, and yeah it's on national TV compared to cable of Dynamite, but Smackdown draws near 2 million viewers.


When Fox moved Smackdown to FS1 for the MLB World Series in October last year it drew 880,000 on a secondary channel, down from 2.1M the week before, that's how crippling a move is to even an established brand and show like WWE Smackdown in the same time slot. ~60% of your audience from the week before haven't turned in, it would have taken substantial time to get them back if the show continued to be jerked around like Dynamite is currently being - fortunately it was for one week only.

Tony gave up to much leverage in his deal with Warner and is hurting Dynamite in the process, the show should have been kept at Wednesday 8pm PERIOD. If TNT can't guarantee every week it will broadcast at that time then that's fine, negotiate off the channel ASAP (not in January next year) and just be done with it. The shows that aren't live and are in the 10pm Friday slot are going to be intentionally phoned it, there's no reason to progress storylines and give away good match ups when no one is tuning in, some really tough weeks ahead....completely avoidable if Tony could negotiate.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

elo said:


> When Fox moved Smackdown to FS1 for the MLB World Series in October last year it drew 880,000 on a secondary channel, down from 2.1M the week before, that's how crippling a move is to even an established brand and show like WWE Smackdown in the same time slot. ~60% of your audience from the week before haven't turned in, it would have taken substantial time to get them back if the show continued to be jerked around like Dynamite is currently being - fortunately it was for one week only.
> 
> Tony gave up to much leverage in his deal with Warner and is hurting Dynamite in the process, the show should have been kept at Wednesday 8pm PERIOD. If TNT can't guarantee every week it will broadcast at that time then that's fine, negotiate off the channel ASAP (not in January next year) and just be done with it. The shows that aren't live and are in the 10pm Friday slot are going to be intentionally phoned it, there's no reason to progress storylines and give away good match ups when no one is tuning in, some really tough weeks ahead....completely avoidable if Tony could negotiate.


*I see you have an Australian flag by your name, so I'm assuming you don't understand the importance of the NBA playoffs. We're talking upwards of 7 million viewers depending on the matchup. There's no way in hell Turner is sacrificing more than 7x the AEW audience for a wrestling program that loses viewers every week.









As for Smackdown, you're incorrectly comparing an entire channel change from a major network to a subsidiary that not everyone has, to a different day and timeslot on the same major network.*


----------



## elo

Yes, so if TNT can't guarantee the time slot you move off the channel....which Tony is doing but not until January next year. He took the money bump over the quality of the show, it's poor negotiating.


----------



## rbl85

elo said:


> Yes, so if TNT can't guarantee the time slot you move off the channel....which Tony is doing but not until January next year. He took the money bump over the quality of the show, it's poor negotiating.


I don't think he had a choice, usually if a network like TNT make you an offer there is 0 room for negociation it's either yes or no.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> I don't think he had a choice, usually if a network like TNT make you an offer there is 0 room for negociation it's either yes or no.


More so it's yes or no because AEW was unproven. As the establish themselves more they can make more demands. But you can't make such a strong demand when you have no track record


----------



## rbl85

If some of you are crazy enough to think that wrestling can be more popular than it is now in 2021, then you probably live in a different world XD.

A wrestling show will never have 3-4-5 million viewers and a new wrestling programm even a perfect one will never be at the actual level of the WWE (1.8-2.1M).

When the WWE was +5M viewers the only way to watch the show was to watch it live, if you was only interested in 1 wrestler you had to watch the whole thing. Now people can watch the highlights of the shows and why watch 2 or 3 hours when you can see all the important moments in 10-15min ?

Only hardcore fans will watch 2 or 3 hours of wrestling, the only time non big fans of wrestling will watch a whole show is for special shows. The same can be said for any other sports in the world, people who usually don't really watch the NFL will start to watch it for the playoff and even for the superbowl.
A lot of people only watch football during the worldcup because it's special.

I know it's hard to accept for hardcore fans like some of you but wrestling will never be like 15-20 years ago, the world and society we live in forbid it.

Now does it mean that AEW is perfect ? hell no.

But sadly the quality of the show will have very limited effects on the viewership.


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> More so it's yes or no because AEW was unproven. As the establish themselves more they can make more demands. But you can't make such a strong demand when you have no track record


Of course i was only talking about that in the position of AEW.


----------



## French Connection

Does anyone remember when AEW moved to TruTV or a channel like this, due to a MLB game in 2009? 
Can you remind me the rating?


----------



## Extremelyunderrated

French Connection said:


> Does anyone remember when AEW moved to TruTV or a channel like this, due to a MLB game in 2009?
> Can you remind me the rating?


AEW was around in 2009?


----------



## RomeoBlues

Firefromthegods said:


> He already addressed it. He basically said he doesn't hate aew critics if he did he would have just shit canned every critic or any poster that critiqued aew. I'd be gone if that was the case
> 
> You're not going to get a response dude. You're just going to get in shit if you come after him outside of rants. At best his going to ignore you and at worst you get permed for attacking a mod outside of rants which is within the rules of modding.
> 
> Woods gone, it sucks cause there's worse than him here, but his replaceable. DMDs basically the number 1 critic now.


I try to stay out of forum politics because here it's particularly bad but as a poster who mainly just reads it's clear that Chrome hates anyone criticising AEW for an extended period of time. You're not gone because you praise them fairly often (And are also a mod) but if you're someone who doesn't like the product and bring it up you will get banned randomly for no reason with no prior warning.

Worst of all you and the other moderators know this is how he operates and do nothing to stop it despite presumably having the power to do so. The Wood was an intelligent poster who never did anything to anyone but gets banned meanwhile you have guys like LifeInCattleClass and others who sit on the "correct side" and regularly taunt, bait and insult only to never so much as be given a warning.

You yourself say Wood being banned sucks and there's worse than him on here...so why the fuck is he banned? Uh oh better keep our mouths shut or we'll get perma banned for asking a question.




RainmakerV2 said:


> View attachment 102488
> 
> 
> 
> That's right guys, everyone was going over each other's houses at 11 pm on a Friday night holding Dynamite viewing parties. That's why the number was so low. Of course! Why didn't I think of that???


LMAO


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> If some of you are crazy enough to think that wrestling can be more popular than it is now in 2021, then you probably live in a different world XD.
> 
> A wrestling show will never have 3-4-5 million viewers and a new wrestling programm even a perfect one will never be at the actual level of the WWE (1.8-2.1M).
> 
> When the WWE was +5M viewers the only way to watch the show was to watch it live, if you was only interested in 1 wrestler you had to watch the whole thing. Now people can watch the highlights of the shows and why watch 2 or 3 hours when you can see all the important moments in 10-15min ?
> 
> Only hardcore fans will watch 2 or 3 hours of wrestling, the only time non big fans of wrestling will watch a whole show is for special shows. The same can be said for any other sports in the world, people who usually don't really watch the NFL will start to watch it for the playoff and even for the superbowl.
> A lot of people only watch football during the worldcup because it's special.
> 
> I know it's hard to accept for hardcore fans like some of you but wrestling will never be like 15-20 years ago, the world and society we live in forbid it.
> 
> Now does it mean that AEW is perfect ? hell no.
> 
> But sadly the quality of the show will have very limited effects on the viewership.


Not sure I can disagree with this comment more. What a defeatist attitude.


----------



## RainmakerV2

French Connection said:


> Does anyone remember when AEW moved to TruTV or a channel like this, due to a MLB game in 2009?
> Can you remind me the rating?


......






What


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Two Sheds said:


> Not sure I can disagree with this comment more. What a defeatist attitude.


*Especially since we just saw AEW hit 1.2 mil two months ago, so people WANT a good alternative to WWE, but they get turned off by the nonsense on the program. Put on a good show, maintain a million viewers, and we can't say shit. No one expects them to REPLACE WWE, so it's ridiculous to even bring that up as a measuring stick.*


----------



## French Connection

Extremelyunderrated said:


> AEW was around in 2009?





RainmakerV2 said:


> ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What


2019, my bad.


----------



## RainmakerV2

French Connection said:


> 2019, my bad.



Are you trying to refer to the rating SD did on FS1? You're first off going from network to cable, so yeah, it's gonna be lower. Secondly FS1 is a way less known network than TNT. Thirdly, AEW was on Friday the week before, so it was no surprise to anyone, and they were on the same network, and they were coming of a PPV. 

Try harder.


----------



## French Connection

RainmakerV2 said:


> Are you trying to refer to the rating SD did on FS1? You're first off going from network to cable, so yeah, it's gonna be lower. Secondly FS1 is a way less known network than TNT. Thirdly, AEW was on Friday the week before, so it was no surprise to anyone, and they were on the same network, and they were coming of a PPV.
> 
> Try harder.



I lived in Australia in 2019, and now in Canada. 
I'm not totally aware about what's going on in the US, but I remember a MLB games potentially moving Dynamite on another network.
Did it happen?
If yes, what was the rating?

At the end, I was wondering if moving to another channel was not better than going on late night, another day, on the same network.


----------



## RainmakerV2

French Connection said:


> I lived in Australia in 2019, and now in Canada.
> I'm not totally aware about what's going on in the US, but I remember a MLB games potentially moving Dynamite on another network.
> Did it happen?
> If yes, what was the rating?
> 
> At the end, I was wondering if moving to another channel was not better than going on late night, another day, on the same network.


I mean yeah, TBS at 8 on Wednesday would have been a better number.


----------



## CM Buck

RomeoBlues said:


> I try to stay out of forum politics because here it's particularly bad but as a poster who mainly just reads it's clear that Chrome hates anyone criticising AEW for an extended period of time. You're not gone because you praise them fairly often (And are also a mod) but if you're someone who doesn't like the product and bring it up you will get banned randomly for no reason with no prior warning.
> 
> Worst of all you and the other moderators know this is how he operates and do nothing to stop it despite presumably having the power to do so. The Wood was an intelligent poster who never did anything to anyone but gets banned meanwhile you have guys like LifeInCattleClass and others who sit on the "correct side" and regularly taunt, bait and insult only to never so much as be given a warning.
> 
> You yourself say Wood being banned sucks and there's worse than him on here...so why the fuck is he banned? Uh oh better keep our mouths shut or we'll get perma banned for asking a question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO


We are looking for a wwe mod, if you'd like one of you lot can apply and you'll have access to the mod chat and ask them yourself.


----------



## Chrome

French Connection said:


> I lived in Australia in 2019, and now in Canada.
> I'm not totally aware about what's going on in the US, but I remember a MLB games potentially moving Dynamite on another network.
> Did it happen?
> If yes, what was the rating?
> 
> At the end, I was wondering if moving to another channel was not better than going on late night, another day, on the same network.


I think going on another channel is better tbh, which is why the SD FS1 number was such a shocker.


----------



## .christopher.

rbl85 said:


> If some of you are crazy enough to think that wrestling can be more popular than it is now in 2021, then you probably live in a different world XD.
> 
> A wrestling show will never have 3-4-5 million viewers and a new wrestling programm even a perfect one will never be at the actual level of the WWE (1.8-2.1M).
> 
> When the WWE was +5M viewers the only way to watch the show was to watch it live, if you was only interested in 1 wrestler you had to watch the whole thing. Now people can watch the highlights of the shows and why watch 2 or 3 hours when you can see all the important moments in 10-15min ?
> 
> Only hardcore fans will watch 2 or 3 hours of wrestling, the only time non big fans of wrestling will watch a whole show is for special shows. The same can be said for any other sports in the world, people who usually don't really watch the NFL will start to watch it for the playoff and even for the superbowl.
> A lot of people only watch football during the worldcup because it's special.
> 
> I know it's hard to accept for hardcore fans like some of you but wrestling will never be like 15-20 years ago, the world and society we live in forbid it.
> 
> Now does it mean that AEW is perfect ? hell no.
> 
> But sadly the quality of the show will have very limited effects on the viewership.


The WWE were regularly getting 4m viewers a few years ago when there definitely was more ways to watch than live, and the WWE were instantly uploading key highlights to their YouTube. What are you on about?

You say no one will get 1.8m viewers. AEW could've. The few times they hit over a million, they could have built off that by producing quality, but, time and time again, they've run off fans instead by going the outlaw mudshow route.

4m fans have stopped watching in recent years. Sure, AEW couldn't convert them all even if they were prime RAW, but they sure as hell could attract more than they have done. A lot more.


----------



## Chrome

RomeoBlues said:


> I try to stay out of forum politics because here it's particularly bad but as a poster who mainly just reads it's clear that Chrome hates anyone criticising AEW for an extended period of time. You're not gone because you praise them fairly often (And are also a mod) but if you're someone who doesn't like the product and bring it up you will get banned randomly for no reason with no prior warning.
> 
> Worst of all you and the other moderators know this is how he operates and do nothing to stop it despite presumably having the power to do so. The Wood was an intelligent poster who never did anything to anyone but gets banned meanwhile you have guys like LifeInCattleClass and others who sit on the "correct side" and regularly taunt, bait and insult only to never so much as be given a warning.
> 
> You yourself say Wood being banned sucks and there's worse than him on here...so why the fuck is he banned? Uh oh better keep our mouths shut or we'll get perma banned for asking a question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO


You Wood worshippers are weird as fuck lol. There were legit good posters who got banned on here that didn't have this kind of cult following.


----------



## French Connection

Chrome said:


> I think going on another channel is better tbh, which is why the SD FS1 number was such a shocker.


The SmackDown numbers on FS1 make sense. 
They moved less than a week before, and they went from National TV to an obsolete cable network. 

I know TBS is not that bad compare to TNT. But what about TruTV?


----------



## Chrome

French Connection said:


> The SmackDown numbers on FS1 make sense.
> They moved less than a week before, and they went from National TV to an obsolete cable network.
> 
> I know TBS is not that bad compare to TNT. But what about TruTV?


TruTV is sorta like the FS1 of Turner Networks.


----------



## .christopher.

Chrome said:


> You Wood worshippers are weird as fuck lol. There were legit good posters who got banned on here that didn't have this kind of cult following.


Again, missing the point. I liked wood but it's not solely about him. It's about the inconsistency.

Plus, I reckon those "legit good posters" had a legit reason for their bans. We're yet to see a legit reason for wood because whatever he may have been banned for - instigating arguments, trolling, etc - there are so many users still here who a bigger culprits than he was. He didn't even insult anyone despite getting insulted left, right and centre himself.


----------



## Chrome

.christopher. said:


> Again, missing the point. I liked wood but it's not solely about him. It's about the inconsistency.
> 
> Plus, I reckon those "legit good posters" had a legit reason for their bans. We're yet to see a legit reason for wood because whatever he may have been banned for - *instigating arguments, trolling*, etc - there are so many users still here who a bigger culprits than he was. He didn't even insult anyone despite getting insulted left, right and centre himself.


That's what Wood was banned for lol. I thought that was obvious but I guess not.


----------



## RapShepard

Chrome said:


> That's what Wood was banned for lol. I thought that was obvious but I guess not.


Everybody instigates arguments on a forum


----------



## Chrome

RapShepard said:


> Everybody instigates arguments on a forum


True, some just do it WAY worse than others to the point where it becomes a detriment.


----------



## RapShepard

Chrome said:


> True, some just do it WAY worse than others to the point where it becomes a detriment.


But what is "WAY" worse based on and defined as outside of a mods subjective individual take on things? For sure Wood can harp on AEW negatives and get folk riled up on the positive side. But that's no different than folk on the pro side that rile up the negative folk like @DammitChrist who shouldn't be banned. But he certainly makes a point to make it know he disagrees with folk. And it's certainly not as bad as the posters that are allowed to race troll in the Anything section. What was the detriment, people reading opinions they don't like, even though there's an ignore feature.


----------



## La Parka

rbl85 said:


> If some of you are crazy enough to think that wrestling can be more popular than it is now in 2021, then you probably live in a different world XD.
> 
> A wrestling show will never have 3-4-5 million viewers and a new wrestling programm even a perfect one will never be at the actual level of the WWE (1.8-2.1M).
> 
> When the WWE was +5M viewers the only way to watch the show was to watch it live, if you was only interested in 1 wrestler you had to watch the whole thing. Now people can watch the highlights of the shows and why watch 2 or 3 hours when you can see all the important moments in 10-15min ?
> 
> Only hardcore fans will watch 2 or 3 hours of wrestling, the only time non big fans of wrestling will watch a whole show is for special shows. The same can be said for any other sports in the world, people who usually don't really watch the NFL will start to watch it for the playoff and even for the superbowl.
> A lot of people only watch football during the worldcup because it's special.
> 
> I know it's hard to accept for hardcore fans like some of you but wrestling will never be like 15-20 years ago, the world and society we live in forbid it.
> 
> Now does it mean that AEW is perfect ? hell no.
> 
> But sadly the quality of the show will have very limited effects on the viewership.


Smackdown in December literally had 3 million people watch Big E win the IC title.

AEW had 2-3 episodes that went well over a million.

AEW had a dark like rating for a dark like show. Stop distorting reality to make it seem like AEWs pathetic ratings have nothing to do with AEWs awful booking. People want to watch wrestling and people have given AEW multiple chances to bring them in but AEW can’t help themselves but book Indy trash and nonsensical storylines.

There is very few people on this planet that would ever be interested in a card the features uno, 10, Brandon cutler and a small child as a manager.

It has nothing to do with pro wrestling’s appeal but everything to do with a card that you’d see put on at a dive bar at 11 o clock to keep the people from going home early.


----------



## Klitschko

Some of you guys argue too much. It's a tv show. Not life and death.


----------



## TheGreatBanana

bdon said:


> Take a guess why…?
> 
> Cody ruins this fucking company…


That’s one of the issues. The Bucks, Omega and Cody should’ve never been made EVPs. Heck they got that role over Jericho who is far more worthy.

These guys are living outside of reality and they think their ideas are good shit when infact it’s not. The fact that Cody claimed his recent promos was among the greatest highlights how disillusioned these guys have gotten. When you have an authoritarian power like Vince, everyone stays humble. When you have that power yourself you think everything you do is great, when in fact it isn’t.

Because of the multiple EVPs the shows are all over the place. There is no consistent narrative, everyone has a turn to be in the main event. Being in the main event and closing the show doesn’t feel special anymore, you have no name jobbers there. The main event needs to be the main event and have the top stars. That’s like putting Mayweather vs Logan in the middle of the card and expect everyone to still tune in after.

As bad as Triple H’s reign of terror was, there was still a consistent story being told. Triple H hogged the limelight, but at least you knew who the focus of the show was. You don’t have that with AEW. There is no consistent story arc that unfolds in the main event only.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Klitschko said:


> Some of you guys argue too much. It's a tv show. Not life and death.


Wrestling and complaining online is all that most people on here have going on in their lives that have any meaning, sometimes we gotta let em have something to hold onto


----------



## rbl85

Two Sheds said:


> Not sure I can disagree with this comment more. What a defeatist attitude.


I call this being realistic


----------



## Ger

rbl85 said:


> If some of you are crazy enough to think that wrestling can be more popular than it is now in 2021, then you probably live in a different world XD.
> 
> A wrestling show will never have 3-4-5 million viewers and a new wrestling programm even a perfect one will never be at the actual level of the WWE (1.8-2.1M).
> ...


I am already in bad mood regarding the rating, but that one goes too far!
We have WF full of people, who say WWE's program totally sucks. So with a "perfect" wrestling program, you should be able reach 2+ million viewers then.
Now you come with "even a (new) perfect one will never be at the actual level of the WWE (1.8-2.1M)", so not even 1.8million is possible? Sorry, but that is just an excuse alias "AEW never had a chance anyway". I remember a while ago, when AEW was over 1 million viewers, we had a very different sound on here.




Two Sheds said:


> Not sure I can disagree with this comment more. What a defeatist attitude.


He got that attitude from a few people in the Asuka fan thread. He already announced in the beginning of 2020, that Asuka would not be in the program til end of 2020. He also announced stopping to care about her. Instead, she was on the show nonstop and had two title runs. He still hangs around there and "cares". 



rbl85 said:


> I call this being realistic


Yeah and when AEW is over 1 million again, you will have another "realistic reasons" to change your mind.  Don't worry, you are welcome.


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> I call this being realistic


It is not realistic at all. It goes against history and is just an easy excuse for the current mediocre to poor state of things.


----------



## La Parka

Two Sheds said:


> It is not realistic at all. It goes against history and is just an easy excuse for the current mediocre to poor state of things.


I think he has a point.

Once a type of entertainment is dead, it never comes back. Remember when Super Hero movies were big in the late 70s and then by the 90s Marvel was bankrupt as interest in super hero’s started to fade? Since then how many super hero movies have there really been? None that anyone has anyone has ever seen, that’s for damn sure!

once something is dead, it never becomes popular again. Expecting anyone to enjoy wrestling is just unrealistic!


----------



## VIP86

La Parka said:


> I think he has a point.
> 
> Once a type of entertainment is dead, it never comes back. Remember when Super Hero movies were big in the late 70s and then by the 90s Marvel was bankrupt as interest in super hero’s started to fade? Since then how many super hero movies have there really been? None that anyone has anyone has ever seen, that’s for damn sure!
> 
> once something is dead, it never becomes popular again. Expecting anyone to enjoy wrestling is just unrealistic!


are you sure no one watches Superhero movies anymore ???

*Marvel Cinematic Universe








*


----------



## rbl85

Ger said:


> I am already in bad mood regarding the rating, but that one goes too far!
> We have WF full of people, who say WWE's program totally sucks. So with a "perfect" wrestling program, you should be able reach 2+ million viewers then.
> Now you come with "even a (new) perfect one will never be at the actual level of the WWE (1.8-2.1M)", so not even 1.8million is possible? Sorry, but that is just an excuse alias "AEW never had a chance anyway". I remember a while ago, when AEW was over 1 million viewers, we had a very different sound on here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He got that attitude from a few people in the Asuka fan thread. He already announced in the beginning of 2020, that Asuka would not be in the program til end of 2020. He also announced stopping to care about her. Instead, she was on the show nonstop and had two title runs. He still hangs around there and "cares".
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah and when AEW is over 1 million again, you will have another "realistic reasons" to change your mind.  Don't worry, you are welcome.


I never said that AEW was going to beat the WWE.

In 2021 you don't need 1.8M viewers to be seen as successfull by your network.


----------



## Ger

rbl85 said:


> I never said that AEW was going to beat the WWE.


Never said you said that. But I cannot remember you posting similar stuff 2 years ago in the AEW section. Telling people now, when AEW is really low in ratings, is not really impressive.



rbl85 said:


> In 2021 you don't need 1.8M viewers to be seen as successfull by your network.


Mate, they are not even close to 1.8M. We are talking about 0,46M viewers at the moment. 
Sure, you can move AEW to the smallest network on US, so that even 100000 viewers will be impressive.


----------



## rbl85

Ger said:


> Never said you said that. But I cannot remember you posting similar stuff 2 years ago in the AEW section. Telling people now, when AEW is really low in ratings, is not really impressive.
> 
> 
> 
> Mate, they are not even close to 1.8M. We are talking about 0,46M viewers at the moment.
> Sure, you can move AEW to the smallest network on US, so that even 100000 viewers will be impressive.


I always said that if (and that's a big IF) AEW ever do the same rating than the WWE it's going to take years maybe decades.

Also yes they are doing 460k on friday's at 10pm but guess what 99% of the time the show is on wednesday.

You can't compare (if you are ok in your mind) the ratings of a show in it usual night at 8pm with his ratings on a different night (Friday being the worst night possible) and at 10pm, people who are comparing are dishonest.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Firefromthegods said:


> We are looking for a wwe mod, if you'd like one of you lot can apply and you'll have access to the mod chat and ask them yourself.


lol - now advertised ‘the worst job in all the internet for no pay’


----------



## Klitschko

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol - now advertised ‘the worst job in all the internet for no pay’


I wonder if there even is any people they consider. I remember them saying it was a headache when they were choosing the AEW mod all those months ago during the Chip reign.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Klitschko said:


> I wonder if there even is any people they consider. I remember them saying it was a headache when they were choosing the AEW mod all those months ago during the Chip reign.


I'd happily put my name in the hat but I understand that most of the mods probably still consider me a member of the Angry Aussies, even though I've taken a back seat and tried to just watch the drama unfold instead of involving myself in it.


----------



## VIP86

Klitschko said:


> I wonder if there even is any people they consider. I remember them saying it was a headache when they were choosing the AEW mod all those months ago *during the Chip reign*.


i Remember this Era
i was so young and vibrant back then
now i'm several months older, and not much Time left


----------



## yeahright2

RapShepard said:


> Everybody instigates arguments on a forum [emoji2379]


I kinda thought arguments and discussions was the point of a DISCUSSION BOARD..


----------



## Klitschko

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> I'd happily put my name in the hat but I understand that most of the mods probably still consider me a member of the Angry Aussies, even though I've taken a back seat and tried to just watch the drama unfold instead of involving myself in it.


Same here. I think it would be pretty cool actually. Don't see why people are hating on it so much. 




VIP86 said:


> i Remember this Era
> i was so young and vibrant back then
> now i'm several months older, and not much Time left


Lol, that was a pretty wild time though lol.


----------



## Ger

I don't know, it seems this thread turns more and more into non-statements, platitudes and lame excuses. As long as so many people try to sell the actual programm (indirectly) as faultless, we stay in that circle, because it was never AEW's fault. Meanwhile we are so low in ratings, that reaching 0.5m again next week would turn into a "we told you, AEW is great" party. Well, as long a few people are happy with that ...



rbl85 said:


> I always said that if (and that's a big IF) AEW ever do the same rating than the WWE it's going to take years maybe decades.
> 
> Also yes they are doing 460k on friday's at 10pm but guess what 99% of the time the show is on wednesday.
> 
> You can't compare (if you are ok in your mind) the ratings of a show in it usual night at 8pm with his ratings on a different night (Friday being the worst night possible) and at 10pm, people who are comparing are dishonest.


So overall you expect nothing, if I got you right. In your words, a new show won't make it anyway, it will takes decades for whatever reason. So AEW becomes a average thing maybe (your word) in a few decardes, for example when Vince dies.  *And you expect Tony Khan still being interested into this little project in decades? Because if no, AEW will have to compensate losing the money-fountain over time, which will make it even more difficult in the long run. *In decades, the USA could been overtaken by China anyway and the wrestlemania will be presented by this guy:








HAHA. I mean, in decades a lot of things can happen maybe.

Also you falled back to give the standard excuses, which we already heard. Now you try to cop out with another strawman. We are not talking about the old place on wednesday and btw, they dropped in ratings there as well the last few weeks. We compare the rating this week to the (already low) rating last week and they both were friday night. Nevertheless the rating this week were even worse.  Had you brought the same excuse, of AEW had made 200k last friday? I am curious.
This is not a new discussion; we already had that for wednesdays, where I was shocked about AEW cannot stay above 1million and a few people suddenly acted, like it was normal to be so low. For some reason, the whole battle with NXT is forgotten. The viewers from NXT, which were alleged viewers of AEW then, after NXT is moved, are in another universe now.


----------



## rbl85

No i'm just not an hardcore fan of wrestling like you, i don't give a shit if AEW does 900K or 2M and i don't care if AEW is no more in 10 years because there is a lot of things that I watch and like more than wrestling.

I often post that people should stop freaking out about the ratings in both direction, when it's low or high but it seems that the average wrestling fans are quick to jump to conclusions and have a pretty bad memory.


----------



## Ger

rbl85 said:


> No i'm just not an hardcore fan of wrestling like you, i don't give a shit if AEW does 900K or 2M and i don't care if AEW is no more in 10 years because* there is a lot of things that I watch and like more than wrestling.*


Jeez, another meaningless statement. 
Regarding the number of your postings, obviously you care a lot!!! 



rbl85 said:


> ...
> I often post that people should stop freaking out about the ratings in both direction, when it's low or high but it seems that the average wrestling fans are quick to jump to conclusions and have a pretty bad memory.


Interesting statement. 
Obvisouly I remember the §!%$ you wrote in Asuka fan thread, so at least my memory is not that bad.


----------



## rbl85

Ger said:


> Jeez, another meaningless statement.
> Regarding the number of your postings, obviously you care a lot!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting statement.
> Obvisouly I remember the §!%$ you wrote in Asuka fan thread, so at least my memory is not that bad.


It's more for the conversations than wrestling itself than i'm posting on this forum, i find that interesting.

I'm more invested with Asuka than any other wrestler because it's her who made me watch wrestling again. I remember being on youtube and a video about her (early NXT for her) grabbed my intention and at that moment I thought "damn that woman rock" and i started watching NXT because of her (never did before).


----------



## RainmakerV2

Where do you apply to be a mod? I mean, fuck, I'm on here enough.


----------



## VIP86

RainmakerV2 said:


> Where do you apply to be a mod? I mean, fuck, I'm on here enough.


you won't Get paid
and every side will accuse you of being biased against them
do you really want this headache


----------



## RainmakerV2

VIP86 said:


> you won't Get paid
> and every side will accuse you of being biased against them
> do you really want this headache



Eh the WWE section is pretty tame. I think I could deal.


----------



## AuthorOfPosts

I wouldn't say I want to see AEW fail and there are definitely legitimate reasons for the low viewership BUT these Friday ratings are funny because AEW hardcores thought NXT moving days and not getting significantly higher viewership was a fail. Nothing against AEW hardcores but some really live in a bubble.


----------



## rbl85

AuthorOfPosts said:


> I wouldn't say I want to see AEW fail and there are definitely legitimate reasons for the low viewership BUT these Friday ratings are funny because *AEW hardcores thought NXT moving days and not getting significantly higher viewership was a fail. Nothing against AEW hardcores but some really live in a bubble.*


I don't see the link between the 2 situations, NXT is not on the same day but at least it's starting at the same time.


----------



## Geert Wilders

rbl85 said:


> It certainly shows that you are biased


To be honest, that is really unfair and actually I don’t need to defend myself against a hardcore AEW shill.


----------



## rbl85

Geert Wilders said:


> To be honest, that is really unfair and actually I don’t need to defend myself against a hardcore AEW shill.


No but it's ok to be biased against Meltzer we all are biased about someone, it's normal


----------



## DammitChrist

Alright, the past day has been really busy; so I'm really sorry to everyone else for being behind on this thread since my last visit here on Monday night. I just feel like addressing some posts that I missed yesterday.

However, I do expect to see a trainwreck here because I trust that some folks are totally 'not' overreacting with bad takes regarding the low rating, which is obviously due to the fact that the Friday night time slot was an awful placement for them; but of course, this somehow means that the shows are automatically "bad" even though there's a lot of wrestling fans who actually do enjoy watching Dynamite 

Anyway, this will probably get lengthy :lol



The Legit DMD said:


> *Let them keep listening to the people who refuse to acknowledge their stupid booking and they will kill their Wednesday audience as well.*


Oh, it's going to be a GLORIOUS time on here when Dynamite goes back to their usual 850+ K viewership consistently starting next month, and you'll be proven wrong (once again) about them "killing their audience."

Of course, I know you'll be silent instead of acknowledging being wrong; so that'll be a pointless expectation.



.christopher. said:


> You're smarter than that. Of course not. I do, however, want him to address a problem instead of running away because there's no consistency here.
> 
> The post he replied "shut up" to was me showing him that someone was insulting @The Legit DMD for no reason. Wood was banned because he was apparently the big bad instigator but, as you see, arguments still happen, and the AEWA still insult people who make legitimate points.
> 
> On the flip side, if wood was banned for trolling, which I disagree with anyway, why are the most obvious trolls still around? Either way, there's no consistency.
> 
> You yourself made these points and we got no answer:


Dude, his bold post was completely justified. He's not even a "troll."

Why are you defending someone who is guilty of being really hypocritical, who baits other AEW fans with passive-aggressive attacks, and who tends to treat us like we're "idiots" in his arguments (where he blatantly selects certain numbers to force his biased narratives on us)?

He *had* a good reason behind that. You're just choosing to overlook the context here.



.christopher. said:


> It's not because he wants them to fail, though. It's in the hopes that the ratings become so bad, it causes AEW to rethink their plans, put more effort in, and produce a better product as a result. I get that logic because AEW has the talent to put on a good show. They just need a more coherent structure to their show.


You DO realize that by listening to 1 person online who clearly wants the company to fail with low numbers, you'd risk disorienting the rest of the other wrestling fans (who actually enjoy the product as it's currently presented atm) with an unnecessary, major overhaul.

There's a great portion of the AEW audience who enjoy Cody Rhodes and the Young Bucks being a prominent part of the upper card. They shouldn't get demoted down the card just because of a vocal minority of individuals who oppose them.

Instead, the company should continue listening to the constructive criticism from their fans AND from the centrists who genuinely WANT them to succeed without any ill-will in the process.



RainmakerV2 said:


> Because there has to be push back against the supermarks if the company is ever gonna truly succeed. The mental gymnastics people are trying to do to justify the number is just ridiculous. *Why can't you just say " it was a bad show in a death slot and did a horrible number "?* Like..Whats wrong with saying that? Instead all these people are doing advanced algebra to for some reason get around saying the show sucked. It's like they're petrified to say anything negative about Tony Khan.
> 
> 
> It's almost like they're...
> 
> 
> On his payroll or...something?


Gee, maybe it's because of the fact that it was a solid show (that happened to have a weaker card) that unfortunately managed to get a low number due to the fact that they were stuck at an AWFUL time slot late on Friday night(s)?

It wasn't a "bad" show at all. That's why other wrestling fans aren't saying what you want them to comment (because it's wrong and it's misleading). Nobody else should be obligated to utter a statement that you desperately want them to make since it's simply not true.

I don't see why you're so bothered over other folks rationalizing why the number was low without any of them overreacting. It's not like their reasons are wrong at all.

For the record, the company should not oppose their own hardcore/weekly audience while they STILL have plenty of good will for them. No "pushbacks" are necessary at all in this case 



Deathiscoming said:


> I've typed that exact same thing in a blatantly celebratory tone for a dozen times in the Raw ratings thread, bluntly stating "Can't wait for the viewership to go down to 1.5Million" for that exact same reason. Imagine doing that in this thread....


I thought Raw was decent this week for their standards in 2021, especially in the 2nd half of the show (aside from the AWFUL closing segment with the supernatural crap); but there's a reason why many folks have a tendency to do that on the other ratings thread.

Raw has been really inconsistent over the past several months, and their episodes are usually weak whereas the Dynamite episodes tend to be really good or enjoyable overall (which is why they don't get the same negative treatment on this thread here aside from the vocal minority who despises the entertaining product).


rbl85 said:


> If some of you are crazy enough to think that wrestling can be more popular than it is now in 2021, then you probably live in a different world XD.
> 
> A wrestling show will never have 3-4-5 million viewers and a new wrestling programm even a perfect one will never be at the actual level of the WWE (1.8-2.1M).
> 
> When the WWE was +5M viewers the only way to watch the show was to watch it live, if you was only interested in 1 wrestler you had to watch the whole thing. Now people can watch the highlights of the shows and why watch 2 or 3 hours when you can see all the important moments in 10-15min ?
> 
> Only hardcore fans will watch 2 or 3 hours of wrestling, the only time non big fans of wrestling will watch a whole show is for special shows. The same can be said for any other sports in the world, people who usually don't really watch the NFL will start to watch it for the playoff and even for the superbowl.
> A lot of people only watch football during the worldcup because it's special.
> 
> I know it's hard to accept for hardcore fans like some of you but wrestling will never be like 15-20 years ago, the world and society we live in forbid it.
> 
> Now does it mean that AEW is perfect ? hell no.
> 
> But sadly the quality of the show will have very limited effects on the viewership.


This thread desperately needed some logic, and rational explanations after the overreactions regarding the low number recently. Thank you for helping provide us just that on here with this response 

Honestly, I don't expect Dynamite's ratings to be strong again until they get back on the road next month. Hopefully, they advertise *like crazy* in late-June that they'll be moving back to Wednesday nights; so that way, more folks will be even more willing to tune in for the 1st live episode on the regular time slot again in early-July..



RomeoBlues said:


> I try to stay out of forum politics because here it's particularly bad but as a poster who mainly just reads it's clear that Chrome hates anyone criticising AEW for an extended period of time. You're not gone because you praise them fairly often (And are also a mod) but if you're someone who doesn't like the product and bring it up you will get banned randomly for no reason with no prior warning.
> 
> Worst of all you and the other moderators know this is how he operates and do nothing to stop it despite presumably having the power to do so. The Wood was an intelligent poster who never did anything to anyone but gets banned meanwhile you have guys like LifeInCattleClass and others who sit on the "correct side" and regularly taunt, bait and insult only to never so much as be given a warning.
> 
> You yourself say Wood being banned sucks and there's worse than him on here...so why the fuck is he banned? Uh oh better keep our mouths shut or we'll get perma banned for asking a question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO


@LifeInCattleClass is a good egg, and that tweet ended up being fake; so there's nothing funny about it (which really wasn't funny to begin with at all).



The Legit DMD said:


> *Especially since we just saw AEW hit 1.2 mil two months ago, so people WANT a good alternative to WWE, but they get turned off by the nonsense on the program. Put on a good show, maintain a million viewers, and we can't say shit. No one expects them to REPLACE WWE, so it's ridiculous to even bring that up as a measuring stick.*


They do provide a good wrestling show, and you don't speak for the rest of those viewers who were unable to tune in live for whatever reason.



Firefromthegods said:


> We are looking for a wwe mod, if you'd like one of you lot can apply and you'll have access to the mod chat and ask them yourself.


By the way, are you still considering that name who was suggested/recommended to you in the PM not too long ago? 



rbl85 said:


> I don't see the link between the 2 situations, NXT is not on the same day but at least it's starting at the same time.


Yea, it's 2 completely different scenarios right here.


----------



## Ger

FYI ... the author of the previous posting runs around this board again and again and "blames" other users for writing "walls of text".


----------



## DammitChrist

Ah, it's finally good to be all caught up with everything more settled now


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Ger said:


> FYI ... the author of the previous posting runs around this board again and again and "blames" other users for writing "walls of text".


*The hypocrisy and baiting is so easy to ignore. It's only a matter of time.*


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *The hypocrisy and baiting is so easy to ignore. It's only a matter of time.*


Those are 2 traits you're highly guilty of here since you tend to be really hypocritical (despite being 'all' about the facts), and you tend to take passive-aggressive shots at other wrestling fans.

Hell, you just did the latter to me without even quoting me directly.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RomeoBlues said:


> The Wood was an intelligent poster who never did anything to anyone but gets banned meanwhile you have guys like LifeInCattleClass and others who sit on the "correct side" and regularly taunt, bait and insult only to never so much as be given a warning.


do you even post here bro?


----------



## ProjectGargano

RomeoBlues said:


> I try to stay out of forum politics because here it's particularly bad but as a poster who mainly just reads it's clear that Chrome hates anyone criticising AEW for an extended period of time. You're not gone because you praise them fairly often (And are also a mod) but if you're someone who doesn't like the product and bring it up you will get banned randomly for no reason with no prior warning.
> 
> Worst of all you and the other moderators know this is how he operates and do nothing to stop it despite presumably having the power to do so. The Wood was an intelligent poster who never did anything to anyone but gets banned meanwhile you have guys like LifeInCattleClass and others who sit on the "correct side" and regularly taunt, bait and insult only to never so much as be given a warning.
> 
> You yourself say Wood being banned sucks and there's worse than him on here...so why the fuck is he banned? Uh oh better keep our mouths shut or we'll get perma banned for asking a question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO


What? @LifeInCattleClass is one of the most correct posters here. Of course this post has the "Like" of @La Parka, the user that normally likes "Silly Posts" like the one that a banned user made against me and my country.


----------



## 3venflow

We already know the rating from last week, but Nielsen released the actual list now. It finished 9th out of 199 shows on cable in the 18-49, which is pretty good for the late timeslot.


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> We already know the rating from last week, but Nielsen released the actual list now. It finished 9th out of 199 shows on cable in the 18-49, which is pretty good for the late timeslot.
> 
> View attachment 102570


Solid to land 9th


----------



## La Parka

ProjectGargano said:


> What? @LifeInCattleClass is one of the most correct posters here. Of course this post has the "Like" of @La Parka, the user that normally likes "Silly Posts" like the one that a banned user made against me and my country.


Whining over likes now?

Someone could like a post for a number of reasons, that doesn’t mean they necessarily endorse everything the post says. Didn’t we go through this already when DC was called out for liking posts that had “******” and other slurs in them?

@RomeoBlues was not the poster you are talking about, so I’m not sure how this is all that relevant.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> We already know the rating from last week, but Nielsen released the actual list now. It finished 9th out of 199 shows on cable in the 18-49, which is pretty good for the late timeslot.
> 
> View attachment 102570


ahh, so nielson also ranks by 18-49, wasn‘t just showbuzzdaily

well, guess that debate is also put to rest now


----------



## Dark Emperor

RapShepard said:


> Solid to land 9th


That is only because it's sorted by demo. The viewership is 17th out of 20 shows visible on that list.
If a 462k viewership with only 190k demo is enough to finish 9th. Then says a lot about the state of the whole of TV. And all these years, everyone gave and still give WWE grief for falling numbers.



> ahh, so nielson also ranks by 18-49, wasn‘t just showbuzzdaily
> 
> well, guess that debate is also put to rest now


The demo is not relevant for Wrestling. As you can see on that list AEW got a better demo and viewership than one of the NHL semi finals. But we all know what happened to AEW as soon as TNT got their hands on NHL.


----------



## French Connection

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ahh, so nielson also ranks by 18-49, wasn‘t just showbuzzdaily
> 
> well, guess that debate is also put to rest now


This demo is used for advertisers.
In 2004 the TF1 CEO (one of the biggest European network), shocked the world by saying his job was to sell available brain time to advertisers like Coca-Cola.
At the end, doesn't matter the content.

The 18-49 is supposed to have much more disposable money than the 50+.
Above all, you're hitting the jackpot if you can attract female viewers (which is not the case of wrestling), and the demo 25-35.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

French Connection said:


> This demo is used for advertisers.
> In 2004 the TF1 CEO (one of the biggest European network), shocked the world by saying his job was to sell available brain time to advertisers like Coca-Cola.
> At the end, doesn't matter the content.
> 
> The 18-49 is supposed to have much more disposable money than the 50+.
> Above all, you're hitting the jackpot if you can attract female viewers (which is not the case of wrestling), and the demo 25-35.


yeah, no - i know

there’s been an old debate on here that ‘demo does not matter’

which it most obviously does


----------



## Dark Emperor

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yeah, no - i know
> 
> there’s been an old debate on here that ‘demo does not matter’
> 
> which it most obviously does


It matters but not as much for wrestling. AEW just outperformed one of the NHL semi final games in both demo & viewership. This is despite them being on at 10pm and that NHL game being a semi finals meaning it should be one of the highest rated NHL games of the year based on importance. So you can imagine how low regular season games will be.

But alas, AEW was kicked off TNT and Warner only pays then $47m per yr whilst they replaced AEW with NHL and signed a deal worth over $200m a yr. 

Tell us how the demo still matters so much for AEW. Advertisers do not see wrestling fans as attractive. Looking at the crowds at these shows, i can see why.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Thank you to all on both sides for always making this thread entertaining, you're giving the rest of us a good show.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Dark Emperor said:


> It matters but not as much for wrestling. AEW just outperformed one of the NHL semi final games in both demo & viewership. This is despite them being on at 10pm and that NHL game being a semi finals meaning it should be one of the highest rated NHL games of the year based on importance. So you can imagine how low regular season games will be.
> 
> But alas, AEW was kicked off TNT and Warner only pays then $47m per yr whilst they replaced AEW with NHL and signed a deal worth over $200m a yr.
> 
> Tell us how the demo still matters so much for AEW. Advertisers do not see wrestling fans as attractive. Looking at the crowds at these shows, i can see why.



Exactly. Most young wrestling fans are single, unemployed, or employed part time and live with their parents. At least according to that reddit survery. Advertisers don't give a shit about young wrestling fans lol.


----------



## DammitChrist

The demographic numbers still matter, and they always will too


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Dark Emperor said:


> That is only because it's sorted by demo.


*I love how this was completely ignored to push the Meltzer narrative. Instead of addressing the worst rating of all time, they'll say "Well, the demo was top 10!" when that obviously didn't mean a God damn thing when it came to the TV contract renegotiation. If Turner gave a fuck about the demo in comparison to multiple other factors, they wouldn't have gotten the boot for the NHL.*


----------



## El Hammerstone

This really should go without saying, but I feel I need to say it anyway; when the demo remains stable despite overall viewership numbers going down, that means that the product is becoming more niche over time.


----------



## VIP86

AEW number 9 according to the "Demo" = worth $45 Million
NHL number 19 according to the "Demo" = worth $225 Million

it almost looks like the "Demo" is not the most important factor 🤯


----------



## DammitChrist

It’s pretty baffling to downplay the importance of the demographic numbers when they consistently do really well on them. 

Not everything needs to be doom-and-gloom after all.


----------



## rbl85

The Legit DMD said:


> *I love how this was completely ignored to push the Meltzer narrative. Instead of addressing the worst rating of all time, they'll say "Well, the demo was top 10!" when that obviously didn't mean a God damn thing when it came to the TV contract renegotiation. If Turner gave a fuck about the demo in comparison to multiple other factors, they wouldn't have gotten the boot for the NHL.*


It's pretty much only because of the demo that TNT took the NHL


----------



## TheGunnShow

Wrestling demos don't matter because advertisers view wrestling as a low brow form of entertainment and don't spend much money on it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

TheGunnShow said:


> Wrestling demos don't matter because advertisers view wrestling as a low brow form of entertainment and don't spend much money on it.


so i guess impact with a lower demo makes the same money of ad spend per minute than Dynamite? (average By audience number of course )


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> so i guess impact with a lower demo makes the same money of ad spend per minute than Dynamite? (average By audience number of course )


Of course not but a wrestling show will always make less than "real" (don't know how to put it) sports.


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> It’s pretty baffling to downplay the importance of the demographic numbers when they consistently do really well on them.
> 
> Not everything needs to be doom-and-gloom after all.


They do great demo wise and should be praised for that. But it should also be noted that some products matter draw more ad money even with a lower demo.


rbl85 said:


> It's pretty much only because of the demo that TNT took the NHL


Which means demo isn't cut and dry


LifeInCattleClass said:


> so i guess impact with a lower demo makes the same money of ad spend per minute than Dynamite? (average By audience number of course )


Of course not, because they're a lower hell muuuuuch lower wrestling demo. For whatever reason though, niche hockey draws more ads than slightly less niche hockey... Maybe wrestling shows should happen on ice


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

No one is saying a 0.19 in wrestling is = value to a 0.19 in hockey

but sports is generally the highest value

At the same time, anybody is gonna have a fucker of a time to convince me that a 0.19 in wrestling is worth less than a 0.19 in ‘Guy Fieri’s diner drive-ins and dives’ for example

hope that clears it up for everybody


----------



## French Connection

VIP86 said:


> AEW number 9 according to the "Demo" = worth $45 Million
> NHL number 19 according to the "Demo" = worth $225 Million
> 
> it almost looks like the "Demo" is not the most important factor 🤯


Live sports is a gold mine for advertisers because you can advertised during the game in a multiple ways.
It's still a factor of prestige for a network to be associated with a franchise as well.

The second point you don't want to take into account, is live streaming. this article states ages drasticly inscreases : "the NHL went from 33 to 49; MLB went from 52 to 57; the NFL went from 44 to 50".
My ex girlfriend who is a very hardcore hockey fan is watching games from the NHL app, and she's 28.









The important point here is, despite the decrease of viewers, advertisers are still spending money. 
Why? because networks negotiate the streaming deals with it. 
And the news is Nielsen (which can already aprehend it) will measure it by 2024.


----------



## VIP86

French Connection said:


> Live sports is a gold mine for advertisers because you can advertised during the game in a multiple ways.
> It's still a factor of prestige for a network to be associated with a franchise as well.
> 
> The second point you don't want to take into account, is live streaming. this article states ages drasticly inscreases : "the NHL went from 33 to 49; MLB went from 52 to 57; the NFL went from 44 to 50".
> My ex girlfriend who is a very hardcore hockey fan is watching games from the NHL app, and she's 28.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The important point here is, despite the decrease of viewers, advertisers are still spending money.
> Why? because networks negotiate the streaming deals with it.
> And the news is Nielsen (which can already aprehend it) will measure it by 2024.


and how does any of this change what i said ??
you're just proving me right with this post
the Demo is not the most important factor
there are other things that determine the value
and the NHL deal is a proof of that
45 million vs 225 million
despite having a lower "Demo"


----------



## VIP86

oh and one more thing, speaking of Guy Fieri

AEW's entire TV deal is worth $175 million for *Four* years
that means under $45 million per year

Guy Fieri’s Diners, Drive Ins and Dives ad revenue in 2020 alone is $230 million

source
Guy Fieri’s New Deal Makes Him One Of Cable TV’s Highest-Paid Hosts


----------



## RainmakerV2

TheGunnShow said:


> Wrestling demos don't matter because advertisers view wrestling as a low brow form of entertainment and don't spend much money on it.



Exactly, the demo don't mean shit when it comes to wrestling. Most advertisers view wrestling fans as dumb people who still "watch fake fighting."


----------



## French Connection

VIP86 said:


> and how does any of this change what i said ??
> you're just proving me right with this post
> the Demo is not the most important factor
> there are other things that determine the value
> and the NHL deal is a proof of that
> 45 million vs 225 million
> despite having a lower "Demo"



Mate, I do not pretend AEW is more lucrative than NHL or NBA.
You're just watching and commenting numbers without digging into it.
I remember a poster here, sharing a tweet from someone, stating the DVR were very good, and you made fun of him.

I've just shared the fact the demo counts, 18-49 has changed their viewing habits, networks are adapting to the trend, Nielsen is measuring it to sell slot to commercials. You don't want to believe? I'm okay with it., maybe VIP86 gonna revolutionize the commercial industry. 



VIP86 said:


> oh and one more thing, speaking of Guy Fieri
> 
> AEW's entire TV deal is worth $175 million for *Four* years
> that means under $45 million per year
> 
> Guy Fieri’s Diners, Drive Ins and Dives ad revenue in 2020 alone is $230 million
> 
> source
> Guy Fieri’s New Deal Makes Him One Of Cable TV’s Highest-Paid Hosts


Mate, do not compare an ad-revenue with a show deal.
It is like you're comparing a price, a cost and a benefit, it is totally different.

But I admit you picked a good example to show how much profitable you can be, with a low-cost TV show (in term of production) compared to other big franchise. But we're not speaking about wrestling and AEW anymore.


----------



## VIP86

French Connection said:


> Mate, I do not pretend AEW is more lucrative than NHL or NBA.
> You're just watching and commenting numbers without digging into it.
> I remember a poster here, sharing a tweet from someone, stating the DVR were very good, and you made fun of him.
> 
> I've just shared the fact the demo counts, 18-49 has changed their viewing habits, networks are adapting to the trend, Nielsen is measuring it to sell slot to commercials. You don't want to believe? I'm okay with it.


1-DVR doesn't matter nearly as much no matter how hard some people wanted it to be
25% of the Live TV ad revenue at the very very best

2-the Demo is not the only important factor
no matter how hard people are clinging on to it
if it was, AEW would have costed TNT more than the NHL
since they have a better "Demo"

3-show me the post that i made fun of this person in
or else you can just admit that you lied


French Connection said:


> Mate, do not compare an ad-revenue with a show deal.
> It is like you're comparing a price, a cost and a benefit, it is totally different.
> 
> But I admit you picked a good example to show how much profitable you can be, with a low-cost TV show (in term of production) compared to other big franchise. But we're not speaking about wrestling and AEW anymore.


nope, it's pretty relevant
if people want to use Guy Fieri’s show as an example
then they at least should know that his show brings in more ad revenue in *one* year than the entire AEW 
*4 years* TV deal


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

VIP86 said:


> oh and one more thing, speaking of Guy Fieri
> 
> AEW's entire TV deal is worth $175 million for *Four* years
> that means under $45 million per year
> 
> Guy Fieri’s Diners, Drive Ins and Dives ad revenue in 2020 alone is $230 million
> 
> source
> Guy Fieri’s New Deal Makes Him One Of Cable TV’s Highest-Paid Hosts


_sigh…  _

aew also earns a share of its own ad revenue on top of their contract

confirmed when they signed the renewal


----------



## VIP86

LifeInCattleClass said:


> _sigh… _
> 
> aew also earns a share of its own ad revenue on top of their contract
> 
> confirmed when they signed the renewal


Guy Fieri’s show makes 230 million a year in ad revenue

AEW makes 19 million a year from their TV deal after deducting the production costs
so they need to get paid 211 million in ad revenue a year to even match what Guy Fieri’s show makes
does TNT pay AEW 211 million a year in ad revenue ??
i don't think so

it's ok to admit that a show is not sizzling hot in terms of advertisement value compared to other shows
it's not gonna make AEW close shop if you did


----------



## French Connection

VIP86 said:


> 1-DVR doesn't matter nearly as much no matter how hard some people wanted it to be
> 25% of the Live TV ad revenue at the very very best
> 
> 2-the Demo is not the only important factor
> no matter how hard people are clinging on to it
> if it was, AEW would have costed TNT more than the NHL
> since they have a better "Demo"
> 
> 3-show me the post that i made fun of this person in
> or else you can just admit that you lied
> 
> nope, it's pretty relevant
> if people want to use Guy Fieri’s show as an example
> then they at least should know that his show brings in more ad revenue in *one* year than the entire AEW
> *4 years* TV deal


1- that's your point of view if you keep watching numbers without questioning it.

2- that's your point of view. Can you give me a source advertisers do not care about demo?
Back to 1 and my previous post, to show you how important live streaming is affecting the key demo.

3- I'm pretty sure you know what I'm talking about. But whatever, let's keep it outside. 

For the last point, I can buy a TV show for X millions $, and keeping the ad revenue in return. 
I can buy a TV-right and sharing the bill.
Do you have the AEW ad-revenue ? no, you just have the TV deal. 
Does that mean AEW is drawing $45 millions in ad-revenues every year? I don't think so, the would be cancelled.

I don't have the deal under my eyes neither to be honest. 
But from what I remember, the ad revenue is split between TNT and AEW. 
After, I don't want to theorize if the wrestling fan is more/less lucrative than another one. We could debate on it of course, but I've never had this rejection in my job.


----------



## VIP86

French Connection said:


> 1- that's your point of view if you keep watching numbers without questioning it.


are you serious ?? 
so with a straight face you can tell me that DVR is worth the same as Live TV ??


French Connection said:


> 2- that's your point of view. Can you give me a source advertisers do not care about demo?
> Back to 1 and my previous post, to show you how important live streaming is affecting the key demo.


the whole argument is that the hardcore fans want to make the Demo the most important factor
which is not, and the other examples (like the NHL) are a proof of that
i don't care about live streaming and its effect
and guess what, TV networks don't care about live streaming either
TNT doesn't pay AEW for their Fite viewership
we're talking TV ratings here, so stop using internet streaming in the conversation



French Connection said:


> 3- I'm pretty sure you know what I'm talking about. But whatever, let's keep it outside.


don't make the claim if you don't have the proof


----------



## DammitChrist

VIP86 said:


> are you serious ??
> so with a straight face you can tell me that DVR is worth the same as Live TV ??
> 
> the whole argument is that the hardcore fans want to make the Demo the most important factor
> which is not, and the other examples (like the NHL) are a proof of that
> i don't care about live streaming and its effect
> and guess what, TV networks don't care about live streaming either
> TNT doesn't pay AEW for their Fite viewership
> we're talking TV ratings here, so stop using internet streaming in the conversation
> 
> 
> don't make the claim if you don't have the proof


Nah, live streaming will always be used in conversations like this one, and they'll continue to be posted in future topics since they're becoming more relevant as of late; especially over the past few years. There's plenty of wrestling fans who also tune in through streams in case they're unable to watch on TV (for any wrestling show).

Plus, the demographic numbers are still important here, and they should continue to be discussed well too. Let's not continue to downplay them just because you don't care about them for some reason.

Don't be rude by dismissing his valid points just because you dislike them. He's being really reasonable about the numbers too


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, live streaming will always be used in conversations like this one, and they'll continue to be posted in future topics since they're becoming more relevant as of late; especially over the past few years. There's plenty of wrestling fans who also tune in through streams in case they're unable to watch on TV (for any wrestling show).


this is a TV ratings thread
not a streaming services thread
just because you want to increase the numbers any way possible, doesn't mean that the rest will just have to deal with it because you think so


DammitChrist said:


> Plus, the demographic numbers are still important here, and they should continue to be discussed well too. Let's not continue to downplay them just because you don't care about them for some reason.


real world facts says the "Demo" is not the only important factor (the NHL says Hi)
and guess what the real world doesn't care about?
your desperation to make it more important than it really is


DammitChrist said:


> Don't be rude by dismissing his valid points just because you dislike them. He's being really reasonable about the numbers too


i absolutely love that you of all people in here accuse people of being Rude
the words Rude and dismissing other people points are your speciality
add to that the projection of course, since you really enjoy accusing people of doing exactly what you're doing


anything else you wanna add
maybe you should explain to us why TNT moved the NHL to TBS because of AEW?
oh wait i forgot, it's the other way around, AEW is what got moved
i guess the important higher "Demo" didn't really do much for them


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

VIP86 said:


> Guy Fieri’s show makes 230 million a year in ad revenue
> 
> AEW makes 19 million a year from their TV deal after deducting the production costs
> so they need to get paid 211 million in ad revenue a year to even match what Guy Fieri’s show makes
> does TNT pay AEW 211 million a year in ad revenue ??
> i don't think so
> 
> it's ok to admit that a show is not sizzling hot in terms of advertisement value compared to other shows
> it's not gonna make AEW close shop if you did


i don‘t know what they get paid - neither do you

find a similar report on their ad revenue and we’ll see

also…. If you read the article its estimated he made 26mil from tv - 230 mil is what food network made / so yes, easy to imagine they get half that from 1 show a year (as he has two shows)

its ok to admit when you don’t understand the words in an article


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Fieri - 2 shows / 26m from 230m ad revenue, which is 11%

take that, divide by 2 for 2 shows = 13m that AEW has to make for themselves for Dynamite - divide over 52 weeks =. 250k a Dynamite

That looks extremely likely actually


----------



## VIP86

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i don‘t know what they get paid - neither do you
> 
> find a similar report on their ad revenue and we’ll see
> 
> also…. If you read the article its estimated he made 26mil from tv - 230 mil is what food network made / so yes, easy to imagine they get half that from 1 show a year (as he has two shows)
> 
> its ok to admit when you don’t understand the words in an article


yep, 1 Guy is getting paid 7 million more than AEW in a year (AEW makes 19 million)
and only one show makes 230 million a year (Diners, Drive Ins and Dives) the article specifically says that
show me your proof that AEW is making 230 million for TNT
it's ok to admit you don't understand the article


----------



## fabi1982

Just watch the actual ads and you see it yourself. Compare to the ads shown for the first couple of shows. The prominent advertisers get less and less. Just random ads from advertisers who probably buy „the whole channel“.

And it is funny how the „diehards“ always say the „haters“ are reaching and just look now what the obvious diehards are doing, reaching like there is no morning…

Just watch the ads for this drive in show and you will see that they will match the content, so more chance people who watch will buy that stuff. What advertisable group would you put AEW fans in? There is no fix group so it is harder for advertisers to actually reach their customers and no „young, unemployed and unkissed“ is no advertisement group…


----------



## VIP86

the audacity of people to just lie blatantly, and then accuse others of their shortcomings
this is what the article says

"His longest-running show Diners, Drive Ins and Dives, which has been on air since 2006, generated more than $230 million in 2020 ad revenue for the Food Network"

where exactly in this does it say that it's 2 shows ??


----------



## VIP86

fabi1982 said:


> young, unemployed and unkissed


🤣 🤣 🤣
you could throw in *unloved* in there


----------



## DammitChrist

VIP86 said:


> this is a TV ratings thread
> not a streaming services thread
> just because you want to increase the numbers any way possible, doesn't mean that the rest will just have to deal with it because you think so
> 
> real world facts says the "Demo" is not the only important factor (the NHL says Hi)
> and guess what the real world doesn't care about?
> your desperation to make it more important than it really is
> 
> i absolutely love that you of all people in here accuse people of being Rude
> the words Rude and dismissing other people points are your speciality
> add to that the projection of course, since you really enjoy accusing people of doing exactly what you're doing
> 
> 
> anything else you wanna add
> maybe you should explain to us why TNT moved the NHL to TBS because of AEW?
> oh wait i forgot, it's the other way around, AEW is what got moved
> i guess the important higher "Demo" didn't really do much for them


See, the condescending tone to that response to me (too) is exactly why someone had to respond to you being rude, especially since you continue to irrationally downplay the importance of the demographic numbers for whatever reason.

I guarantee that they'll be fine no matter which TV channel they end up on by next year too 

Just try to calm down in future reference


----------



## DammitChrist

fabi1982 said:


> Just watch the actual ads and you see it yourself. Compare to the ads shown for the first couple of shows. The prominent advertisers get less and less. Just random ads from advertisers who probably buy „the whole channel“.
> 
> *And it is funny how the „diehards“ always say the „haters“ are reaching and just look now what the obvious diehards are doing, reaching like there is no morning…
> 
> Just watch the ads for this drive in show and you will see that they will match the content, so more chance people who watch will buy that stuff. What advertisable group would you put AEW fans in? There is no fix group so it is harder for advertisers to actually reach their customers and no „young, unemployed and unkissed“ is no advertisement group…*


Yikes, way to give a negative label to a big group of wrestling fans in a derogatory way just because they happen to enjoy an entertaining product that you apparently dislike so much.


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> See, the condescending tone to that response to me (too) is exactly why someone had to respond to you being rude, especially since you continue to irrationally downplay the importance of the demographic numbers for whatever reason.
> 
> I guarantee that they'll be fine no matter which TV channel they end up on by next year too
> 
> Just try to calm down in future reference


1-Projection
2-Delusions
3-Victimhood
you have anything else going on in there ?


----------



## DammitChrist

VIP86 said:


> 1-Projection
> 2-Delusions
> 3-Victimhood
> you have anything else going on in there ?


Gee, way to go off-topic and project your delusions to me (again).

Anyway, folks are free to continue discussing their demographic numbers regarding the ratings topic here 🤷‍♂️


----------



## VIP86

DammitChrist said:


> Gee, way to go off-topic and project your delusions to me (again).
> 
> Anyway, folks are free to continue discussing their demographic numbers regarding the ratings topic here 🤷‍♂️


add Obsession to the list
i told you before your obsession and the little victim charade you are playing, is providing entertainment for everyone
too bad for you, nobody is really buying it
you can run around and harass people and then play the victim all you want
it's a comedy act at this point


----------



## DammitChrist

VIP86 said:


> add Obsession to the list
> i told you before your obsession and the little victim charade you are playing, is providing entertainment for everyone
> too bad for you, nobody is really buying it
> you can run around and harass people and then play the victim all you want
> it's a comedy act at this point


Are you finished here?

I've already made my valid point (which still stands), and it's getting really late anyway.

Edit:

Come on, I've never reported anyone. I don't know what that feature even looks like.


----------



## La Parka

This forum would be much more friendly if it wasn't for...

Chip Chipperson
The Wood
Cult03
Ozell
Mr316
La Parka
VIP86
.christopher.
El Hammerstone
yeahright!
Two Sheds


Which one of these will go next? Vote now by dialing 1800-chrome-please-ban-the-meanies

Its TOTALLY not DC, guys.


----------



## VIP86

La Parka said:


> This forum would be much more friendly if it wasn't for...
> 
> Chip Chipperson
> The Wood
> Cult03
> Ozell
> Mr316
> La Parka
> VIP86
> .christopher.
> El Hammerstone
> yeahright!
> Two Sheds
> 
> 
> Which one of these will go next? Vote now by dialing 1800-chrome-please-ban-the-meanies
> 
> Its TOTALLY not DC, guys.


go to MyBookie and use promo code JCE
i'm gonna put 25 cents on every name
just to be safe


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

VIP86 said:


> yep, 1 Guy is getting paid 7 million more than AEW in a year (AEW makes 19 million)
> and only one show makes 230 million a year (Diners, Drive Ins and Dives) the article specifically says that
> show me your proof that AEW is making 230 million for TNT
> it's ok to admit you don't understand the article


follow me brother - AEW makes 19mil a year in their contract - then on TOP of that.... like, in addition, right? Like above and beyond

they also make a share of the ad revenue - which is the same as what the article is speaking about - Guy making a total of 26milly - total meaning in total revenue from tv of course

so... take the 19milly.... and add some more millies, right?

the real question is... why the hell would anybody want to prove they make less than what they most likely do? Hell, this is without ticket sales and merch and ppv


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

VIP86 said:


> the audacity of people to just lie blatantly, and then accuse others of their shortcomings
> this is what the article says
> 
> "His longest-running show Diners, Drive Ins and Dives, which has been on air since 2006, generated more than $230 million in 2020 ad revenue for the Food Network"
> 
> where exactly in this does it say that it's 2 shows ??


“Fieri declined to comment on his TV earnings, which Forbes pegs at roughly $26 million a year.”

this talks about his total tv earnings a year - he has 2 shows, ergo....


----------



## VIP86

LifeInCattleClass said:


> follow me brother - AEW makes 19mil a year in their contract - then on TOP of that.... like, in addition, right? Like above and beyond
> 
> they also make a share of the ad revenue - which is the same as what the article is speaking about - Guy making a total of 26milly - total meaning in total revenue from tv of course
> 
> so... take the 19milly.... and add some more millies, right?
> 
> the real question is... why the hell would anybody want to prove they make less than what they most likely do? Hell, this is without ticket sales and merch and ppv





LifeInCattleClass said:


> “Fieri declined to comment on his TV earnings, which Forbes pegs at roughly $26 million a year.”
> 
> this talks about his total tv earnings a year - he has 2 shows, ergo....


dude, stop the mental Gymnastics
Diners, Drive Ins and Dives (which is one show not two) alone makes 230 million a year
do you have any proof that AEW makes 230 million a year in ad revenue for TNT
if you don't, then you don't have to invent a math equation just to make them look good


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

VIP86 said:


> dude, stop the mental Gymnastics
> Diners, Drive Ins and Dives (which is one show not two) alone makes 230 million a year
> do you have any proof that AEW makes 230 million a year in ad revenue for TNT
> if you don't, then you don't have to invent a math equation just to make them look good


WTF dude - you are the one disputing it - you've got to prove they make less

none of us knows what they make in ad revenue - so, saying they make less without proof is silly

all we know for a fact is, its on 8 a clock, primetime in a Wed / and its not cancelled - so, it must be doing good money

why would you even argue that?

do you guys _*WANT*_ wrestling demos to be worth less than fucking Diners Drive Ins and Dives - do you guys think so little of *YOURSELVES* that you see your eyeballs as less value from fucking reality shows? Do YOU think wrestling fans are worthless?

it does my head in why you would think this?? I'm a fan, and I've got a metric fuckton of money to spend - as do I guess 90% of other people on here - that is mega valuable

has the world turned around and now TV execs rate wrestling, but funnily enough the fans do not?

There are 4 primetime wrestling shows on TV.... tell me again how their demo numbers are worth less than any other normal show

you guys do my head in

your whole argument is frankly silly


----------



## VIP86

LifeInCattleClass said:


> WTF dude - you are the one disputing it - you've got to prove they make less
> 
> none of us knows what they make in ad revenue - so, saying they make less without proof is silly
> 
> all we know for a fact is, its on 8 a clock, primetime in a Wed / and its not cancelled - so, it must be doing good money
> 
> why would you even argue that?
> 
> do you guys _*WANT*_ wrestling demos to be worth less than fucking Diners Drive Ins and Dives - do you guys think so little of *YOURSELVES* that you see your eyeballs as less value from fucking reality shows? Do YOU think wrestling fans are worthless?
> 
> it does my head in why you would think this?? I'm a fan, and I've got a metric fuckton of money to spend - as do I guess 90% of other people on here - that is mega valuable
> 
> has the world turned around and now TV execs rate wrestling, but funnily enough the fans do not?
> 
> There are 4 primetime wrestling shows on TV.... tell me again how their demo numbers are worth less than any other normal show
> 
> you guys do my head in
> 
> your whole argument is frankly silly


dude, do you have memory problem or something
you're the one who compared AEW's ad value to Guy Fieri's show in the first place
you specifically said that ads in AEW are worth more
and this is the exact quote


LifeInCattleClass said:


> At the same time, anybody is gonna have a fucker of a time to convince me that a 0.19 in wrestling is worth less than a 0.19 in ‘Guy Fieri’s diner drive-ins and dives’ for example


i love that you think it's perfectly ok to assume that AEW is worth more
but it's silly to assume that they worth less
despite the fact the Guy Fieri's show makes more revenue in one year than the entire AEW contract
do you see now the colored glasses you're wearing or not ??


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

VIP86 said:


> dude, do you have memory problem or something
> you're the one who compared AEW's ad value to Guy Fieri's show in the first place
> you specifically said that ads in AEW are worth more
> and this is the exact quote
> 
> i love that you think it's perfectly ok to assume that AEW is worth more
> but it's silly to assume that they worth less
> despite the fact the Guy Fieri's show makes more revenue in one year than the entire AEW contract
> do you see now the colored glasses you're wearing or not ??


I didn't say worth more - I said its not worth less

IE> I think sports demo is obviously worth more than wrestling - because they got bumped for Hockey, even with a lower demo and they get bumped for NBA

At the same time, I don't think its WORTH LESS than your normal run-of-the-mill tv show in the same timeslot - I think its at least equal

nowhere did I say I think its 'worth more'


----------



## VIP86

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I didn't say worth more - I said its not worth less
> 
> IE> I think sports demo is obviously worth more than wrestling - because they got bumped for Hockey, even with a lower demo and they get bumped for NBA
> 
> At the same time, I don't think its WORTH LESS than your normal run-of-the-mill tv show in the same timeslot - I think its at least equal
> 
> nowhere did I say I think its 'worth more'


and i agree, AEW is not worthless, it would be retarded to say that it is
TNT would have never renewed the contract with an option for extension if they think it's worthless
AEW is perfectly safe for another 4 years, as they should be
but it doesn't mean we should inflate the value just because we enjoy it
we have to be reasonable and admit that our feelings about something doesn't necessarily mean it's worth more than it really is
all the signs say it's a profitable company so far
just let's not exaggerate things and accept that some things have higher value than wrestling regardless of the "Demo"


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

VIP86 said:


> and i agree, AEW is not worthless, it would be retarded to say that it is
> TNT would have never renewed the contract with an option for extension if they think it's worthless
> AEW is perfectly safe for another 4 years, as they should be
> but it doesn't mean we should inflate the value just because we enjoy it
> we have to be reasonable and admit that our feelings about something doesn't necessarily mean it's worth more than it really is
> all the signs say it's a profitable company so far
> *just let's not exaggerate things and accept that some things have higher value than wrestling regardless of the "Demo"*


i never did

its not worth less, its not worth more - regardless of our ‘feelings’ - one would assume its adequately priced by all involved since this is their job

doesn’t change anything we’ve been chatting about the last couple of pages - ie> some people saying the demo doesn’t matter / or wrestling fans are somehow worth less than normal programming 🤷‍♂️


----------



## ProjectGargano

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1403155442575065092
AEW sold over 900 tickets during the pre-sale day of their Charlotte show. The venue has 9k seats. The last time they went there they had 4k watching so the venue was half empty. This is a huge venue.


----------



## fabi1982

DammitChrist said:


> Yikes, way to give a negative label to a big group of wrestling fans in a derogatory way just because they happen to enjoy an entertaining product that you apparently dislike so much.


I dont give the labels, thats what the advertisers think and know from surveys. So please show me that the audience is "young, rich, environment loving" people and I will say I´m sorry.


----------



## Aedubya

Hold on

Guy Fieri is All Elite!?


----------



## 3venflow

DON grossed $6.3m in total, $5.9m of that coming through PPV buys. But since AEW only get 45% of PPV revenue, the total income from DON amounts to around $3.03m for the company.

The Charlotte show has sold 1,815+ already though its a big building so they'll want more. I think the last show there filled about half the building.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1403358286250917891


----------



## Prosper

La Parka said:


> This forum would be much more friendly if it wasn't for...
> 
> Chip Chipperson
> The Wood
> Cult03
> Ozell
> Mr316
> La Parka
> VIP86
> .christopher.
> El Hammerstone
> yeahright!
> Two Sheds
> 
> 
> Which one of these will go next? Vote now by dialing 1800-chrome-please-ban-the-meanies
> 
> Its TOTALLY not DC, guys.


Get rid of .christopher and Mr.316 and we'll be in a good place. You and the rest are fine.


----------



## 3venflow

Ticket updates from the WON - pretty consistent with tta ticket account.

The taping in Miami on July 7 has sold just under 2,900 of 4,600 available.

The taping in Cedar Park, TX (Austin) on July 14 has sold 3,800 out of 4,400 available.

The taping in Garland, TX (Dallas) on July 21 has sold 3,600 of 5,200 available.


----------



## ProjectGargano

3venflow said:


> Ticket updates from the WON - pretty consistent with tta ticket account.
> 
> The taping in Miami on July 7 has sold just under 2,900 of 4,600 available.
> 
> The taping in Cedar Park, TX (Austin) on July 14 has sold 3,800 out of 4,400 available.
> 
> The taping in Garland, TX (Dallas) on July 21 has sold 3,600 of 5,200 available.


WON is reporting what that Twitter account said in the last Monday, that are the same numbers. Maybe now they have sold more, no?


----------



## Klitschko

Does anyone else ever laugh at how hard pro wrestling fans bury themselves? Damn, we are all unloved, unmarketable, poor, unemployed, basement dwellers according to some people here. Fuck those statistics. Be proud guys.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Klitschko said:


> Does anyone else ever laugh at how hard pro wrestling fans bury themselves? Damn, we are all unloved, unmarketable, poor, unemployed, basement dwellers according to some people here. Fuck those statistics. Be proud guys.


this. I don’t get it

we’re a fucking above average income, eager to spend fandom

tickets, wrestling merch etc doesn’t come cheap


----------



## Shock Street

Klitschko said:


> Does anyone else ever laugh at how hard pro wrestling fans bury themselves? Damn, we are all unloved, unmarketable, poor, unemployed, basement dwellers according to some people here. Fuck those statistics. Be proud guys.


The person who made that Reddit poll doesn't even have 1% of a clue how statistics work. All we learned is redditors that like wrestling tend to be broke, but they didn't put in the work so we have no idea if the correlation is from Reddit or from Wrestling. They needed to poll a non-Reddit control group (ex. wrestling fans on Twitter) and a non-wrestling control group (some unrelated Reddit community) to make the results useful.

That said, I do think there's a wrestling stigma that will effect advertisers, but I don't think that poll was accurate either.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Klitschko said:


> Does anyone else ever laugh at how hard pro wrestling fans bury themselves? Damn, we are all unloved, unmarketable, poor, unemployed, basement dwellers according to some people here. Fuck those statistics. Be proud guys.



The stigma around wrestling fans after the attitude era is real and its a turn off for advertisers. Just go up to 50 random people on the street and ask them if they still watch pro wrestling and tell them you watch it religiously and watch how they look at you.


----------



## DammitChrist

LifeInCattleClass said:


> this. I don’t get it
> 
> we’re a fucking above average income, eager to spend fandom
> 
> tickets, wrestling merch etc doesn’t come cheap


Yea, I don't think paying for the WWE Network/Peacock AND NJPW World on a monthly basis (along with buying all the AEW ppvs too) comes cheap either.


----------



## RainmakerV2

DammitChrist said:


> Yea, I don't think paying for the WWE Network/Peacock AND NJPW World on a monthly basis (along with buying all the AEW ppvs too) comes cheap either.



I'm willing to bet there's way more people watching PPVs and NJPW on illegal streams (Sup Taima and Watchwrestling) than are paying for it legit.


----------



## DammitChrist

Yep, that's true too. Illegal/online streams are also relevant regarding viewership nowadays.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*I'll go to the Miami show if they do meet and greets. I wonder if that's only for PPVs.*


----------



## rbl85

The Legit DMD said:


> *I'll go to the Miami show if they do meet and greets. I wonder if that's only for PPVs.*


I think that before the pandemic they were doing those every weeks but i'm not 100% sure.


----------



## VIP86

i've got good money on 700K this week
come on TK, don't fail me this time
sooner or later i'm gonna win this game Dammit


----------



## 3venflow

AEW running the Indiana State Fairgrounds in November it appears. It'll be a Wednesday, so a Dynamite show. They'll announce a bunch of new dates tonight.









All Elite Wrestling







www.indianastatefair.com


----------



## VIP86

here's some interesting questions about the viewership
what would their first episode back on wednesday going to do ?
it's hard to predict this number
how much damage would all these friday episodes gonna do to the first wednesday episode
will people get used to watching on DVR even when they're back on wednesdays ?
how much permanent effect this is going to have on their viewership ?
in my opinion, Tony Khan should have at least requested Dynamite to be moved to TBS last year when they also got moved because of the NBA
the writing was on the wall that all this jumping around could present a problem in the future


----------



## ProjectGargano

3venflow said:


> AEW running the Indiana State Fairgrounds in November it appears. It'll be a Wednesday, so a Dynamite show. They'll announce a bunch of new dates tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All Elite Wrestling
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.indianastatefair.com


That is the post Full Gear show.


----------



## Kentucky34

I am not sure what you guys are discussing.

AEW's audience is steadily declining. It just isn't catching on or drawing new viewers. That is all there is to it.


----------



## Chan Hung

I'm going to predict after tonight they'll get about 500-560,000 viewership max. If they get 600K or more that would be considered a victory for them since overall, tonight's show presented was quite dull and had really nothing must see. Some have posted saying AEW is phoning it in on lately, and while it sure seems like that..if i was in charge i would at least put more effort to reward those who stay tuned on Fridays.


----------



## Hitman1987

VIP86 said:


> here's some interesting questions about the viewership
> what would their first episode back on wednesday going to do ?
> it's hard to predict this number
> how much damage would all these friday episodes gonna do to the first wednesday episode
> will people get used to watching on DVR even when they're back on wednesdays ?
> how much permanent effect this is going to have on their viewership ?
> in my opinion, Tony Khan should have at least requested Dynamite to be moved to TBS last year when they also got moved because of the NBA
> the writing was on the wall that all this jumping around could present a problem in the future


Their first Wednesday back should be booked like a special/mini-PPV with all the Champions in action against decent opposition and a good singles match and tag match, something like:

Kenny vs Andrade (AAA title)
Miro vs Jungleboy (TNT title)
Bucks vs PNP (Tag titles) 
Britt vs Tay/Serena/Riho (Women’s title)
Death triangle vs Team Taz 
Hangman vs Christian 

They need to give fans a reason to tune in live again as I’m sure some have got comfortable watching on DVR


----------



## DammitChrist

Anyone else thought tonight's episode of Dynamite had a better flow throughout the whole show, and that most of the segments had plenty of solid progression going for them?

It felt like they put more effort tonight in spite of the big disadvantage regarding the late time slot.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

VIP86 said:


> here's some interesting questions about the viewership
> what would their first episode back on wednesday going to do ?
> it's hard to predict this number
> how much damage would all these friday episodes gonna do to the first wednesday episode
> will people get used to watching on DVR even when they're back on wednesdays ?
> how much permanent effect this is going to have on their viewership ?
> in my opinion, Tony Khan should have at least requested Dynamite to be moved to TBS last year when they also got moved because of the NBA
> the writing was on the wall that all this jumping around could present a problem in the future


*I say 700 low 750 high.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DammitChrist said:


> Anyone else thought tonight's episode of Dynamite had a better flow throughout the whole show, and that most of the segments had plenty of solid progression going for them?
> 
> It felt like they put more effort tonight in spite of the big disadvantage regarding the late time slot.


was a good show - as normal, won’t affect the ratings either way / friday at 10 is still friday at 10

but was a good show

i’ll put it at 550k


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Just leaving a comment so I can come back to watch the drama unfold when the viewership numbers are released.



La Parka said:


> This forum would be much more friendly if it wasn't for...
> 
> Chip Chipperson
> The Wood
> Cult03
> Ozell
> Mr316
> La Parka
> VIP86
> .christopher.
> El Hammerstone
> yeahright!
> Two Sheds
> 
> 
> Which one of these will go next? Vote now by dialing 1800-chrome-please-ban-the-meanies
> 
> Its TOTALLY not DC, guys.


I'm disappointed I didn't even make the list, I've lost my position as a problematic poster  Might have to step up my game and become the snarky little rat I used to be.


----------



## RainmakerV2

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Just leaving a comment so I can come back to watch the drama unfold when the viewership numbers are released.
> 
> 
> I'm disappointed I didn't even make the list, I've lost my position as a problematic poster  Might have to step up my game and become the snarky little rat I used to be.



I didn't make the list either. 


Friends...how many of us have them


----------



## La Parka

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Just leaving a comment so I can come back to watch the drama unfold when the viewership numbers are released.
> 
> 
> I'm disappointed I didn't even make the list, I've lost my position as a problematic poster  Might have to step up my game and become the snarky little rat I used to be.





RainmakerV2 said:


> I didn't make the list either.
> 
> 
> Friends...how many of us have them


You both shall be added to the next list.

There will be plenty of lists to go around.


----------



## French Connection

I think we have a clue that AEW is waiting out the clock, and patiently waiting for its return to Wednesday, with all these special shows in July.


----------



## Prosper

French Connection said:


> I think we have a clue that AEW is waiting out the clock, and patiently waiting for its return to Wednesday, with all these special shows in July.


Every episode in July is themed lol. 4 weeks of potent content to come it seems when they get back on the road and in their regular time slot. AEW has been killing it this year outside of these last 2-3 weeks so I fully expect them to ramp it back up to the level the have been at going into July.


----------



## 3venflow

Yeah, it's clear they're going to pick things up again back on the road. There's more pressure to deliver away from Daily's Place too, both with Dynamite and the Dark/Elevation tapings beforehand. Plus all of those shows will have 3,000+ fans in attendance.

Road Rager sounds/looks like it'll have some 80s/Tron/synthwave theme, which I'm all for.

I imagine we'll see all titles defended across those shows and potentially the trios belts introduced.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Just leaving a comment so I can come back to watch the drama unfold when the viewership numbers are released.
> 
> 
> I'm disappointed I didn't even make the list, I've lost my position as a problematic poster  Might have to step up my game and become the snarky little rat I used to be.


create an alt and speak to yourself, that usually works


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

LifeInCattleClass said:


> create an alt and speak to yourself, that usually works


Mate I dunno if anyone can recreate the legend that was Kiwi Cassidy, shame he had to go back to his home world.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Update on Miami (July 7th), Cedar Park (July 14th) and Charlotte (July 28th):

Miami: 3222 tickets sold/unavailable;
Cedar Park: 3889 tickets sold;
Charlotte: +2800 tickets sold.


----------



## yeahright2

La Parka said:


> You both shall be added to the next list.
> 
> There will be plenty of lists to go around.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Mate I dunno if anyone can recreate the legend that was Kiwi Cassidy, shame he had to go back to his home world.


lol, yeah - maybe the best to keep the GOAT in the box


----------



## 3venflow

ProjectGargano said:


> Charlotte: +2800 tickets sold.


Those are some damn good ticket sales for just a few days.

They did 3,600 paid there in 2019 so seem on course to top that if the momentum continues.


----------



## RomeoBlues

French Connection said:


> I think we have a clue that AEW is waiting out the clock, and patiently waiting for its return to Wednesday, with all these special shows in July.


This is quite embarrassing. They are DESPERATE to pop a rating so the hotshot booking comes back out.


----------



## La Parka

RomeoBlues said:


> This is quite embarrassing. They are DESPERATE to pop a rating so the hotshot booking comes back out.


Whats better than one hot shot event every few months to pop a million viewers? 

4 IN ONE MONTH!


----------



## DammitChrist

Alright, let me get this straight.

They can't air Dynamite late on Friday nights and predictably get low ratings (obviously due to the horrible time slot) without being crucified for "losing several thousands of their fanbase" or for "horrible booking."

They decide to host 4 big shows next month as soon as they're finally back on the road with full live crowds to compensate for their big disadvantage over the past few weeks airing late on Friday nights, but yet that's apparently unacceptable because they're "hot-shotting" everything. 

However, they also can't just host regular events next month (with barely any special episodes) because then they'd just get accused for not capitalizing on the hot crowds right off the bat, and they'd also be accused for being complacent with the TV ratings due to "little growth."

Basically, there's no winning at all here for them.

Is my assessment here accurate?


----------



## La Parka

DammitChrist said:


> Alright, let me get this straight.
> 
> They can't air Dynamite late on Friday nights and predictably get low ratings (obviously due to the horrible time slot) without being crucified for "losing several thousands of their fanbase" or for "horrible booking."
> 
> They decide to host 4 big shows next month as soon as they're finally back on the road with full live crowds to compensate for their big disadvantage over the past few weeks late on Friday nights, but yet that's apparently unacceptable because they're "hot-shotting" everything.
> 
> However, they also can't just host regular events next month (with barely any special episodes) because then they'd just get accused for not capitalizing on the hot crowds right off the bat, and they'd also be accused for being complacent with the TV ratings due to "little growth."
> 
> Basically, there's no winning at all here for them.
> 
> Is my assessment here accurate?


no, tbh


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DammitChrist said:


> Alright, let me get this straight.
> 
> They can't air Dynamite late on Friday nights and predictably get low ratings (obviously due to the horrible time slot) without being crucified for "losing several thousands of their fanbase" or for "horrible booking."
> 
> They decide to host 4 big shows next month as soon as they're finally back on the road with full live crowds to compensate for their big disadvantage over the past few weeks late on Friday nights, but yet that's apparently unacceptable because they're "hot-shotting" everything.
> 
> However, they also can't just host regular events next month (with barely any special episodes) because then they'd just get accused for not capitalizing on the hot crowds right off the bat, and they'd also be accused for being complacent with the TV ratings due to "little growth."
> 
> Basically, there's no winning at all here for them.
> 
> Is my assessment here accurate?


seems on the nose to me

basically these guys want AEW to not exist so that they can exclusively complain about WWE 

its weird man


----------



## VIP86

arguing about the special shows now (one month early) is useless
let's wait and see after they air and their numbers come out
if they proved effective, then good
if they failed in what they intend to do, then we can argue about the reasons


----------



## Mister Sinister

PPV style shows do not make good television. You use the show to tease and build a program that you then pull the trigger on at the PPV. What I am expecting them to do is pull out a series of gimmick matches with hardcore garbage every week to try to shock up the rating, but completely ignoring that this whole ratings tumble started with the Blerd and Gerts match. The hardcore wrestling has scared away family audiences. But they keep doing it. They did a bull rope match last week, and they are doing a strap match on July 7. Week four will be a broken bottle on a pole to determine who lives to challenge Omega.


----------



## La Parka

VIP86 said:


> arguing about the special shows now (one month early) is useless
> let's wait and see after they air and their numbers come out
> if they proved effective, then good
> if they failed in what they intend to do, then we can argue about the reasons


I think the main problem I have with special shows is AEW seems to have either a bad Sunday Night Heat card or a PPV type card. There seems to be very few times when theres an in-between. 

The other thing is, eventually special shows stop being special if you have them so frequently. If Dork order vs Cutler and the young bucks are main eventing a "special" show, than what the hell is even the point?


----------



## BroncoBuster3

French Connection said:


> I think we have a clue that AEW is waiting out the clock, and patiently waiting for its return to Wednesday, with all these special shows in July.


AEW has really bad names for absolutely every event and show they have


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

BroncoBuster3 said:


> AEW has really bad names for absolutely every event and show they have


but ‘BroncoBuster3’ is a stroke of genius?


----------



## 3venflow

Fight for the Fallen is a good name since it is about raising money for causes such as gun violence.

Road Rager is alright too, playing off the Miami Vice retro vibe.

Fyter Fest is not a name I like. Does feel very generic.


----------



## Mr316

Fyter Fest was horrible last year. Just horrible.


----------



## Klitschko

French Connection said:


> I think we have a clue that AEW is waiting out the clock, and patiently waiting for its return to Wednesday, with all these special shows in July.





La Parka said:


> Whats better than one hot shot event every few months to pop a million viewers?
> 
> 4 IN ONE MONTH!


Yea this is just stupid. I like their specials because there is some gems sometimes and it can be used as a mini ppv, the winter special comes to mind. Usually they put some build into them as well, but with them putting them every single week, it will just be a regular episode of Dyanmite with a theme most likely.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Don't you worry I'm just eagerly waiting for the ratings


----------



## RainmakerV2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> but ‘BroncoBuster3’ is a stroke of genius?


This guy really just gets to insult anyone he wants huh.


----------



## Deathiscoming

RainmakerV2 said:


> This guy really just gets to insult anyone he wants huh.


Because it would probably take honesty and balls to admit that All In , All Out, Double or Nothing and Fyter Fest aren't bright names for special events/PPVs...like Living Dangerously, Summerslam, Slammiversary, The Great American Bash, Starrcade, Bound for glory, and Wrestlemania were/are.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Klitschko said:


> Does anyone else ever laugh at how hard pro wrestling fans bury themselves? Damn, we are all unloved, unmarketable, poor, unemployed, basement dwellers according to some people here. Fuck those statistics. Be proud guys.


Have you ever been to a wrestling show? Have you ever gone to a basketball game or concert at the same venue?

What they’re saying isn’t that far off from the truth. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NathanMayberry

Prosper said:


> Get rid of .christopher and Mr.316 and we'll be in a good place. You and the rest are fine.


I guess I should be honoured that you consider me fine..

I still don’t know why you are asking for your already super safe space to be even safer though…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## VIP86

La Parka said:


> I think the main problem I have with special shows is AEW seems to have either a bad Sunday Night Heat card or a PPV type card. There seems to be very few times when theres an in-between.
> 
> The other thing is, eventually special shows stop being special if you have them so frequently. If Dork order vs Cutler and the young bucks are main eventing a "special" show, than what the hell is even the point?


i think it's panic mode after the horrible Fridays numbers
i don't believe it when someone says they're not panicking at AEW headquarters
nothing more says panic mode than 4 special shows in 1 month


----------



## VIP86

Deathiscoming said:


> Because it would probably take honesty and balls to admit that All In , All Out, Double or Nothing and Fyter Fest aren't bright names for special events/PPVs...like Living Dangerously, Summerslam, Slammiversary, The Great American Bash, Starrcade, Bound for glory, and Wrestlemania were/are.


yep, 90% of the names AEW chooses for the PPVs and specials are just not good at all
it's like a teenager lost in vegas in the middle of all the Casinos and started hallucinating

speaking of horrible PPV names
WWE had a PPV named "Great *Balls* of Fire"


----------



## yeahright2

Deathiscoming said:


> Because it would probably take honesty and balls to admit that All In , All Out, Double or Nothing and Fyter Fest aren't bright names for special events/PPVs...like Living Dangerously, Summerslam, Slammiversary, The Great American Bash, Starrcade, Bound for glory, and Wrestlemania were/are.


You forgot the ever classic "Great balls of fire"


----------



## 3venflow

VIP86 said:


> nothing more says panic mode than 4 special shows in 1 month


They did Fyter Fest 1, Fyter Fest 2 and Fight for the Fallen back to back last year. There is nothing new or 'panicky' about this move, it's just how the company has been operating from the start with these themed Dynamites since their ethos is 'Dynamite is our most important brand' and only run four PPVs per year, not one a month like WWE.

Even in the early days of Dynamite, they had the Rick & Morty themed Halloween show, the Thanksgiving show, and Bash at the Beach.

Last year they had 12 'themed' Dynamites. So far in 2021, including these upcoming events, they will have had 9 taking us into September. It'll be two months since their last themed Dynamite by the time Road Rager comes along,


----------



## VIP86

3venflow said:


> They did Fyter Fest 1, Fyter Fest 2 and Fight for the Fallen back to back last year. There is nothing new or 'panicky' about this move, it's just how the company has been operating from the start with these themed Dynamites since their ethos is 'Dynamite is our most important brand' and only run four PPVs per year, not one a month like WWE.
> 
> Even in the early days of Dynamite, they had the Rick & Morty themed Halloween show, the Thanksgiving show, and Bash at the Beach.
> 
> Last year they had 12 'themed' Dynamites. So far in 2021, including these upcoming events, they will have had 9 taking us into September. It'll be two months since their last themed Dynamite by the time Road Rager comes along,
> 
> View attachment 102812


check above
i already said if the special shows proved effective in gaining decent numbers, then Good
but there's no way they advertised 4 special shows in 1 month just randomly without a reason
Tony Khan is obsessed with the Ratings
should i post one of his tweets bragging about it ?
or did we forgot the whole "DemoGod" thing


----------



## 3venflow

VIP86 said:


> but there's no way they advertised 4 special shows in 1 month just randomly without a reason


They're not really random though, are they? They're timed fairly consistently with last year's Fyter Fest and Fight for the Fallen, just later in July.

Last year it went:

Fyter Fest 1 - July 1
Fyter Fest 2 - July 8
Fight for the Fallen - July 15
Tag Team Appreciation Night - August 12

This year it's:

Road Rager - July 7
Fyter Fest 1 - July 14
Fyter Fest 2 - July 21
Fight for the Fallen - July 28

So there's really not much difference except the Miami Vice themed show for their return to touring.

And with them being back on the road, starting with Road Rager, it makes sense to have these special shows in front of 3,000+ crowds hungry for live wrestling.



> Tony Khan is obsessed with the Ratings


Considering the TV deal is their meal ticket, shouldn't he be ratings focused? With that said, if ratings were all he cared about, then he could be throwing out matches on Omega vs. Jericho, Cody vs. Christian, Miro vs. Wardlow every week on TV. If anything, AEW is quite restrained in terms of giving away big matches.

After they get back on Wednesdays and back on the road, you'd expect him to be putting on some big shows after these nothing cards on Friday nights.


----------



## sim8

VIP86 said:


> check above
> i already said if the special shows proved effective in gaining decent numbers, then Good
> but there's no way they advertised 4 special shows in 1 month just randomly without a reason
> Tony Khan is obsessed with the Ratings
> should i post one of his tweets bragging about it ?
> or did we forgot the whole "DemoGod" thing


It's the first four shows back on the road. AEW seems to be wanting to make all four feel important for ticket sales. I'm not saying they shouldn't be worried about the drop on ratings but at the same time, it isn't exactly fair for anybody to paint this as the beginning of the end as it is late night Friday. I think I'm a super aew fan and I've kind of checked out until the 7th July myself. You cant give me that crowd at DON and expect me to go back to watching Dynamite without a real crowd. 7th July is the big day I'm waiting for.


----------



## VIP86

3venflow said:


> They're not really random though, are they? They're timed fairly consistently with last year's Fyter Fest and Fight for the Fallen, just later in July.
> 
> Last year it went:
> 
> Fyter Fest 1 - July 1
> Fyter Fest 2 - July 8
> Fight for the Fallen - July 15
> Tag Team Appreciation Night - August 12
> 
> This year it's:
> 
> Road Rager - July 7
> Fyter Fest 1 - July 14
> Fyter Fest 2 - July 21
> Fight for the Fallen - July 28
> 
> So there's really not much difference except the Miami Vice themed show for their return to touring.
> 
> And with them being back on the road, starting with Road Rager, it makes sense to have these special shows in front of 3,000+ crowds hungry for live wrestling.
> 
> 
> 
> Considering the TV deal is their meal ticket, shouldn't he be ratings focused? With that said, if ratings were all he cared about, then he could be throwing out matches on Omega vs. Jericho, Cody vs. Christian, Miro vs. Wardlow every week on TV. If anything, AEW is quite restrained in terms of giving away big matches.
> 
> After they get back on Wednesdays and back on the road, you'd expect him to be putting on some big shows after these nothing cards on Friday nights.


i agree that he should be ratings focused
but it also means that he will do everything to save it including 4 special shows in 1 month

i'm not arguing the idea is right or wrong
all i'm saying is that the effect of the Friday decrease in ratings, was a big reason they'll have 4 special shows in 1 month


----------



## VIP86

sim8 said:


> It's the first four shows back on the road. AEW seems to be wanting to make all four feel important for ticket sales. I'm not saying they shouldn't be worried about the drop on ratings but at the same time, it isn't exactly fair for anybody to paint this as *the beginning of the end* as it is late night Friday. I think I'm a super aew fan and I've kind of checked out until the 7th July myself. You cant give me that crowd at DON and expect me to go back to watching Dynamite without a real crowd. 7th July is the big day I'm waiting for.


nobody ever said it's the beginning of the end
anyone saying that is dumb
since they renewed their contract not long ago, so clearly TNT want them


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

La Parka said:


> Whats better than one hot shot event every few months to pop a million viewers?
> 
> 4 IN ONE MONTH!


*If their booking was balanced, they wouldn't have to do this. I'm glad the road fans are getting a treat, but I would prefer that each week has something special on it instead of a bunch of jobbers one week and then a bunch of marquee matchups the next week.*


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> Alright, let me get this straight.
> 
> They can't air Dynamite late on Friday nights and predictably get low ratings (obviously due to the horrible time slot) without being crucified for "losing several thousands of their fanbase" or for "horrible booking."
> 
> They decide to host 4 big shows next month as soon as they're finally back on the road with full live crowds to compensate for their big disadvantage over the past few weeks airing late on Friday nights, but yet that's apparently unacceptable because they're "hot-shotting" everything.
> 
> However, they also can't just host regular events next month (with barely any special episodes) because then they'd just get accused for not capitalizing on the hot crowds right off the bat, and they'd also be accused for being complacent with the TV ratings due to "little growth."
> 
> Basically, there's no winning at all here for them.
> 
> Is my assessment here accurate?


This is going to sound crazy, but how about just do one special episode next month with good build going in and coming out of said special episode[emoji2379][emoji2373][emoji2379]. They don't need to have 4 themed episodes straight to produce a good weekly product that gets fans hyped.


----------



## sim8

VIP86 said:


> nobody ever said it's the beginning of the end
> anyone saying that is dumb
> since they renewed their contract not long ago, so clearly TNT want them


You may not have but you cant speak for everyone. But the point of my comment stands. AEW has live crowds coming back on a weekly basis so it makes sense to try to make the first few shows feel big and important


----------



## VIP86

sim8 said:


> You may not have but you cant speak for everyone. But the point of my comment stands. AEW has live crowds coming back on a weekly basis so it makes sense to try to make the first few shows feel big and important


like i said, not arguing if the idea is right or wrong
the whole point is that the recent Ratings played a bigger part in making the decision than anything else
it's not really a criticism, it's more of an observation that's all 🤷‍♂️
but you're free to disagree with it


----------



## BroncoBuster3

LifeInCattleClass said:


> but ‘BroncoBuster3’ is a stroke of genius?


Sorry? What does this have to do with any point being made? For the most part I am on AEW's side but I haven't liked any of the names they've come up with for events. Why does this need to involve poor attempts at insulting me instead of discussing the topic? I like dammitchrist and other AEW fans but I have never seen you add anything of substance n here apart from poor attempts at baiting people and a complete lack of logical discussion. You are the reason people talk about double standards on here. Why is this guy above the rules @Firefromthegods?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

BroncoBuster3 said:


> Sorry? What does this have to do with any point being made? For the most part I am on AEW's side but I haven't liked any of the names they've come up with for events. Why does this need to involve poor attempts at insulting me instead of discussing the topic? I like dammitchrist and other AEW fans but I have never seen you add anything of substance n here apart from poor attempts at baiting people and a complete lack of logical discussion. You are the reason people talk about double standards on here. Why is this guy above the rules @Firefromthegods?


*The only reason I don't have him blocked (anymore) is because he makes the weekly Dynamite threads and they're invisible if he's ignored. It's a shame that they can flame as much as they want, but the people who respond are the ones that get banned, so I just automatically ignore anyone using insults in place of logic.*


----------



## BroncoBuster3

The Legit DMD said:


> *The only reason I don't have him blocked (anymore) is because he makes the weekly Dynamite threads and they're invisible if he's ignored. It's a shame that they can flame as much as they want, but the people who respond are the ones that get banned, so I just automatically ignore anyone using insults in place of logic.*


He just trolls the forum and gets away with it. I like AEW but I didn't expect a response like that for saying I don't enjoy the names they come up with for their shows and events. I can see why some people complain about the moderating when people like him can do whatever they want but taking his bait gets you banned. I'll probably be next for calling it out I guess..


----------



## CM Buck

BroncoBuster3 said:


> Sorry? What does this have to do with any point being made? For the most part I am on AEW's side but I haven't liked any of the names they've come up with for events. Why does this need to involve poor attempts at insulting me instead of discussing the topic? I like dammitchrist and other AEW fans but I have never seen you add anything of substance n here apart from poor attempts at baiting people and a complete lack of logical discussion. You are the reason people talk about double standards on here. Why is this guy above the rules @Firefromthegods?


Its not. That is direct bait. As for why I normally overlook it its because normally its just general bait. General bait i usually let go because both sides bait each other cause this feud won't die.

I won't stand for direct bait like that however.


----------



## BroncoBuster3

Firefromthegods said:


> Its not. That is direct bait. As for why I normally overlook it its because normally its just general bait. General bait i usually let go because both sides bait each other cause this feud won't die.
> 
> I won't stand for direct bait like that however.


Well I struggle to see a difference and being on the AEW side I can see why the others are feeling like there's a double standard. "Bait" seems like a very subjective term on this forum when it's actually quite clear who is baiting and who isn't. I don't think having criticisms is baiting. In saying that, he certainly deserved a ban. How long will it last? Seems like he's been doing it for a long time


----------



## CM Buck

BroncoBuster3 said:


> Well I struggle to see a difference and being on the AEW side I can see why the others are feeling like there's a double standard. "Bait" seems like a very subjective term on this forum when it's actually quite clear who is baiting and who isn't. I don't think having criticisms is baiting. In saying that, he certainly deserved a ban. How long will it last? Seems like he's been doing it for a long time


A week. I spoke to headliner like a while ago and asked his definition of bait and he essentially said if he cracked down on every instance of bait there would be no one here. Technically saying something like John cena sucks is bait cause John has fans and his fanbase would react. So he let's general bait go. And focuses on nasty bait


----------



## One Shed

Firefromthegods said:


> A week. I spoke to headliner like a while ago and asked his definition of bait and he essentially said if he cracked down on every instance of bait there would be no one here. Technically saying something like John cena sucks is bait cause John has fans and his fanbase would react. So he let's general bait go. And focuses on nasty bait


Cena does suck though. Also, there should be a lot less bans.


----------



## VIP86

Two Sheds said:


> Cena does suck though.


so you wouldn't take John Cena over.....say.....Orange Cassidy ? 
i have a feeling you would make that trade


----------



## One Shed

VIP86 said:


> so you wouldn't take John Cena over.....say.....Orange Cassidy ?
> i have a feeling you would make that trade


I would just stop watching like I did when Super Cena became a thing.


----------



## Deathiscoming

BroncoBuster3 said:


> He just trolls the forum and gets away with it. I like AEW but I didn't expect a response like that for saying I don't enjoy the names they come up with for their shows and events. I can see why some people complain about the moderating when people like him can do whatever they want but taking his bait gets you banned. I'll probably be next for calling it out I guess..


Yeah that guy immediately starts insulting or offending anyone who makes a critical thread or comment, like you just experienced. As an example, look at this response to a thread >>








Imagine a grownup posting that in response to a well-thought and elaborate thread citing a premise and backed up with reasoning/points.

And yeah, he's been doing it for months now, if not years and I have experienced some of it but I didn't actually think of it as "bait" or anything at then. But soon enough if you notice, it becomes a pattern. I'll even call it a minor form of harrassment because he did that with some other poster who created a mildly critical thread recently as well.


----------



## VIP86

Two Sheds said:


> I would just stop watching like I did when Super Cena became a thing.


never watched this Super Cena stuff
all i watched for him was the feud with the Rock
and the feud with CM punk


----------



## Chan Hung

Darn, no ratings update yet?


----------



## VIP86

Chan Hung said:


> Darn, no ratings update yet?


nope, these Nielsen people are very protective about their Data
i'm sure advertisers pay a lot of money for it
we were spoiled by showbuzzdaily


----------



## DammitChrist

Chan Hung said:


> Darn, no ratings update yet?


The numbers were apparently released on Monday afternoon last week, so I guess it'll be revealed tomorrow afternoon then.

I don't expect anything impressive though. The late time slot is awful.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

BroncoBuster3 said:


> AEW has really bad names for absolutely every event and show they have


Yeah I agree. I don't like a single name for a PPV or special show they've had other than using the old ones like Bash at the Beach. Full Gear is just some silly BTE reference. 

I also don't like their graphics, lighting, presentation on Dynamite, the intro and theme song yadda yadda that I've mentioned ad nauseam. _shrug_ Doesn't really affect my enjoyment of the show obviously.


----------



## CM Buck

Two Sheds said:


> Cena does suck though. Also, there should be a lot less bans.


It was a warning i just didn't adjust the points to send a message. And there has been a lot less bans in this section.


----------



## Han Popo

Slow week at the nielsen office


----------



## DaSlacker

Surely you can still get them next day if you pay whatever Nielsen charges for the data (probably a very expensive annual subscription lol). Unfortunately nobody cares enough to open their wallet.


----------



## 3venflow

No info on this week's yet, but here's the breakdown for last week's which I don't think has been posted. Actually started pretty well with the 'real' main event, but look at that actual main event number. Oof.

And yeah, it was late at night, but Q6 and Q7 were also late at night.

-

Q1: The Young Bucks vs. PAC and Penta El Zero Miedo – 549,000 viewers, 302,000 in 18-49
Q2: Mark Henry interview/Andrade El Idolo debuts for AEW – 474,000 viewers (down 75,000), 236,000 in 18-49 (down 66,000)
Q3: Cody Rhodes & Lee Johnson vs. Antony Ogogo & QT Marshall/Stadium Stampede highlights – 484,000 viewers (up 10,000), 224,000 in 18-49 (down 12,000)
Q4: Inner Circle promo/Orange Cassidy & Best Friends promo/Kenny Omega & Don Callis promo – 473,000 viewers (down 11,000), 240,000 in 18-49 (up 16,000)
Q5: Jungle Boy & Christian Cage vs. Private Party – 456,000 viewers (down 17,000), 251,000 in 18-49 (up 11,000)
Q6: Team Taz promo/Sting & Darby Allin promo/Britt Baker championship celebration – 449,000 viewers (down 7,000), 256,000 in 18-49 (up 5,000)
Q7: Death Triangle & Eddie Kingston segment/The Bunny vs. Red Velvet – 438,000 viewers (down 11,000), 250,000 in 18-49 (down 6,000)
Q8: Dustin Rhodes vs. Nick Comoroto – 374,000 viewers (down 64,000), 215,000 in 18-49 (down 35,000)


----------



## VIP86

so, steady decline during the entire episode except Q3
549,000 > 474,000 < 484,000 > 473,000 > 456,000 > 449,000 > 438,000 > 374,000
that last number is just brutal


----------



## DaSlacker

Didn't TNA Impact used to get 800,000-900,000 in their original 11pm Saturday night slot?

Considering how much cable viewership has fallen and the first 'normal' summer since the pandemic. Could he in line with metrics.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

3venflow said:


> No info on this week's yet, but here's the breakdown for last week's which I don't think has been posted. Actually started pretty well with the 'real' main event, but look at that actual main event number. Oof.
> 
> And yeah, it was late at night, but Q6 and Q7 were also late at night.
> 
> -
> 
> Q1: The Young Bucks vs. PAC and Penta El Zero Miedo – 549,000 viewers, 302,000 in 18-49
> Q2: Mark Henry interview/Andrade El Idolo debuts for AEW – 474,000 viewers (down 75,000), 236,000 in 18-49 (down 66,000)
> Q3: Cody Rhodes & Lee Johnson vs. Antony Ogogo & QT Marshall/Stadium Stampede highlights – 484,000 viewers (up 10,000), 224,000 in 18-49 (down 12,000)
> Q4: Inner Circle promo/Orange Cassidy & Best Friends promo/Kenny Omega & Don Callis promo – 473,000 viewers (down 11,000), 240,000 in 18-49 (up 16,000)
> Q5: Jungle Boy & Christian Cage vs. Private Party – 456,000 viewers (down 17,000), 251,000 in 18-49 (up 11,000)
> Q6: Team Taz promo/Sting & Darby Allin promo/Britt Baker championship celebration – 449,000 viewers (down 7,000), 256,000 in 18-49 (up 5,000)
> Q7: Death Triangle & Eddie Kingston segment/The Bunny vs. Red Velvet – 438,000 viewers (down 11,000), 250,000 in 18-49 (down 6,000)
> Q8: Dustin Rhodes vs. Nick Comoroto – 374,000 viewers (down 64,000), 215,000 in 18-49 (down 35,000)


Good lord that Dustin Rhodes match viewership is depressing. There's no excuses for that pathetic number.


----------



## Shock Street

You'd think they'd try and do a big main event or surprise for these nights that they know will do a bad number. Make people regret not watching live so they don't miss the next Dynamite.


----------



## 3venflow

The North Carolina show which recently went on sale has now sold over 3,200 tickets. Last time they were there, they did 3,600 paid so it's looking good for an improved turnout this time.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

VIP86 said:


> so, steady decline during the entire episode except Q3
> 549,000 > 474,000 < 484,000 > 473,000 > 456,000 > 449,000 > 438,000 > 374,000
> that last number is just brutal


Certainly cements the fact that Rampage will be just 1 hour, at that time slot atleast.


----------



## Extremelyunderrated

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Good lord that Dustin Rhodes match viewership is depressing. There's no excuses for that pathetic number.


You mean nobody is interested in a whiny 60 year old wrestling some nobody ? Color me surprised


----------



## ProjectGargano

Extremelyunderrated said:


> You mean nobody is interested in a whiny 60 year old wrestling some nobody ? Color me surprised


I agree, but he is 52 not 60.


----------



## 3venflow

Dustin could still be more relevant if used better. Cody & Dustin feuding with the Young Bucks or FTR for example. He's just not a guy to headline a show against a newcomer.


----------



## CovidFan

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Good lord that Dustin Rhodes match viewership is depressing. There's no excuses for that pathetic number.


It's a fine number. The night's just getting later and later. Notice that all but one 15 minute chunk lost viewers. The one that gained was just an anomaly.


----------



## RainmakerV2

CovidFan said:


> It's a fine number. The night's just getting later and later. Notice that all but one 15 minute chunk lost viewers. The one that gained was just an anomaly.



Of course. Everything is fine. They will all come back Wednesday. Of course they will.


----------



## El Hammerstone

RainmakerV2 said:


> Of course. Everything is fine. They will all come back Wednesday. Of course they will.


They will. Initially.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Clearly there’s very little crossover between Smackdown fans and AEW.


----------



## CovidFan

Randy Lahey said:


> Clearly there’s very little crossover between Smackdown fans and AEW.


idk about that. Switch the times and channels around and AEW gets 1.8 million while SD! gets 400k. People bitch about watching 3 hours of wrestling on Monday's but you expect them to stick around for 4 hours of wrestling every Friday? This is why DVR numbers can arguably be more important than live ratings on Friday's.


----------



## The XL 2

A lot of people have supported AEW because its a national promotion not named WWE, but keep featuring the Bucks, Omega, and Cody on top and see how many people eventually tune out in droves. The Bucks don't belong on national TV and Omega and Rhodes are midcard talents.


----------



## Dark Emperor

CovidFan said:


> idk about that. Switch the times and channels around and AEW gets 1.8 million while SD! gets 400k. People bitch about watching 3 hours of wrestling on Monday's but you expect them to stick around for 4 hours of wrestling every Friday? This is why DVR numbers can arguably be more important than live ratings on Friday's.


This is hilarious. Dynamite in their history has never got anywhere near 1.8m. You are a deluded AEW fan.


----------



## CovidFan

The XL 2 said:


> A lot of people have supported AEW because its a national promotion not named WWE


I'd not argue against that but it depends on your definition of a lot. I'm sure the majority of viewers of AEW watch both AEW and WWE. If they're wrestling fans, they're probably going to watch a primetime show over a late night show as well which is why comparing the two is dumb.


----------



## NathanMayberry

3venflow said:


> No info on this week's yet, but here's the breakdown for last week's which I don't think has been posted. Actually started pretty well with the 'real' main event, but look at that actual main event number. Oof.
> 
> And yeah, it was late at night, but Q6 and Q7 were also late at night.
> 
> -
> 
> Q1: The Young Bucks vs. PAC and Penta El Zero Miedo – 549,000 viewers, 302,000 in 18-49
> Q2: Mark Henry interview/Andrade El Idolo debuts for AEW – 474,000 viewers (down 75,000), 236,000 in 18-49 (down 66,000)
> Q3: Cody Rhodes & Lee Johnson vs. Antony Ogogo & QT Marshall/Stadium Stampede highlights – 484,000 viewers (up 10,000), 224,000 in 18-49 (down 12,000)
> Q4: Inner Circle promo/Orange Cassidy & Best Friends promo/Kenny Omega & Don Callis promo – 473,000 viewers (down 11,000), 240,000 in 18-49 (up 16,000)
> Q5: Jungle Boy & Christian Cage vs. Private Party – 456,000 viewers (down 17,000), 251,000 in 18-49 (up 11,000)
> Q6: Team Taz promo/Sting & Darby Allin promo/Britt Baker championship celebration – 449,000 viewers (down 7,000), 256,000 in 18-49 (up 5,000)
> Q7: Death Triangle & Eddie Kingston segment/The Bunny vs. Red Velvet – 438,000 viewers (down 11,000), 250,000 in 18-49 (down 6,000)
> Q8: Dustin Rhodes vs. Nick Comoroto – 374,000 viewers (down 64,000), 215,000 in 18-49 (down 35,000)


To the surprise of no one, the Young Bucks spotfest caused viewers to tune out of the show for the night. 

Their trios spotfest did the same for me this week.


----------



## CovidFan

Dark Emperor said:


> This is hilarious. Dynamite in their history has never got anywhere near 1.8m. You are a deluded AEW fan.


I actually don't even watch AEW for the most part. I've seen 2 ppvs and 3 Dynamite's this year so I'd hardly call myself a fan. I lurk here for the lolz but it's just easy to see the patterns and things that matter wrt ratings. On the nights they've hit 1 million, they'd have hit 1.8 million if they were on a network channel instead of TNT and there's no argument against that. It's a fact.


----------



## Dark Emperor

CovidFan said:


> I actually don't even watch AEW for the most part. I've seen 2 ppvs and 3 Dynamite's this year so I'd hardly call myself a fan. I lurk here for the lolz but it's just easy to see the patterns and things that matter wrt ratings. On the nights they've hit 1 million, they'd have hit 1.8 million if they were on a network channel instead of TNT and there's no argument against that. It's a fact.


The ratings don't double just because you're on Network TV. Smackdown rating is only approx 200-250k above Raw which is not much more than 10% extra viewers.


----------



## One Shed

CovidFan said:


> I actually don't even watch AEW for the most part. I've seen 2 ppvs and 3 Dynamite's this year so I'd hardly call myself a fan. I lurk here for the lolz but it's just easy to see the patterns and things that matter wrt ratings. On the nights they've hit 1 million, they'd have hit 1.8 million if they were on a network channel instead of TNT and there's no argument against that. It's a fact.


That is not a fact. Smackdown is not doing 1.8x what their ratings were before they moved to FOX.


----------



## CovidFan

Dark Emperor said:


> The ratings don't double just because you're on Network TV. Smackdown rating is only approx 200-250k above Raw which is not much more than 10% extra viewers.


You're correct but AEW's on a worse channel so they'd be getting a substantially higher % on network tv. I also didn't mean AEW hitting exactly one million. For instance when they hit 1.2 million, it would've been at least 1.8 because the original comment I responded to said they've never been close to 1.8m which wouldn't be true if circumstances were same as WWE's.


----------



## Chan Hung

I am suprised this was not posted.

Here are the ratings. If anyone else can confirm or something.

*AEW Dynamite on TNT pulled in 487,000 viewers*, *which is up from the show last week that did 462,000. 

They drew a 0.19 rating in the 18-49 demographic, which is the same as the previous week’s 0.19.*

Brandon Thurston of WrestleNomics (Source) They reported the ratings.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Will they re-think putting Rampage on Fridays around the same time?


----------



## Klitschko

Still can't break the 500k mark. Ouch, but at least it went up a bit I guess. Thanks for posting that @Chan Hung.


----------



## Chan Hung

Klitschko said:


> Still can't break the 500k mark. Ouch, but at least it went up a bit I guess. Thanks for posting that @Chan Hung.


No problem. Yep small increase yet not touching 500k. I would hope they reconsider this Rampage Friday thing, unless they are okay with less than 500k then good for them but i would think otherwise, especially since this is a new program, why would you willingly chance it when Dynamite cant even touch 500k? That rating is pretty scary, almost Impact scary.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

I mean...it's an increase? That's sort of good? Who am I kidding they can't even get back to the 500k mark.


----------



## CovidFan

Shame it's the same. Another ho-hum week for this thread. Hopefully they can break 600k when they get back to Wednesday's.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Interested to see if they will be capable to go back to the +800K viewership when they go back to Wednesdays.


----------



## ProjectGargano

CovidFan said:


> Shame it's the same. Another ho-hum week for this thread. Hopefully they can break 600k when they get back to Wednesday's.


600k? That would be awful.


----------



## Chan Hung

ProjectGargano said:


> Interested to see if they will be capable to go back to the +800K viewership when they go back to Wednesdays.


Thats what im wondering too.


----------



## rbl85

Chan Hung said:


> No problem. Yep small increase yet not touching 500k. I would hope they reconsider this Rampage Friday thing, unless they are okay with less than 500k then good for them but i would think otherwise, especially since this is a new program, why would you willingly chance it when Dynamite cant even touch 500k? That rating is pretty scary, almost Impact scary.


Rampage is a 1 hour show and i can assure you that TNT would be very happy with 500K at 10pm


----------



## qntntgood

Chan Hung said:


> I am suprised this was not posted.
> 
> Here are the ratings. If anyone else can confirm or something.
> 
> *AEW Dynamite on TNT pulled in 487,000 viewers*, *which is up from the show last week that did 462,000.
> 
> They drew a 0.19 rating in the 18-49 demographic, which is the same as the previous week’s 0.19.*
> 
> Brandon Thurston of WrestleNomics (Source) They reported the ratings.
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Will they re-think putting Rampage on Fridays around the same time?


Still a bad rating,but then again Friday is a death sentence for any show at time slot.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Their Saturday show in two weeks will be at 8pm, a better timeslot.


----------



## BroncoBuster3

Firefromthegods said:


> A week. I spoke to headliner like a while ago and asked his definition of bait and he essentially said if he cracked down on every instance of bait there would be no one here. Technically saying something like John cena sucks is bait cause John has fans and his fanbase would react. So he let's general bait go. And focuses on nasty bait


So it's up to the interpretation of the mods? I'd like to compare what others have been permanently banned for compared to what LifeInCattleClass has been doing for at least the last two months, even longer when I was lurking. I can't imagine anyone else doing any worse than he has.


----------



## Mr316

It went up! Amazing number for a show on a Friday night at 10pm. You would expect the number to be at 150k but almost 500k is incredible. -Mark


----------



## ProjectGargano

Mr316 said:


> It went up! Amazing number for a show on a Friday night at 10pm. You would expect the number to be at 150k but almost 500k is incredible. -Mark


Isn´t this baiting?


----------



## holy

Mr316 said:


> It went up! Amazing number for a show on a Friday night at 10pm. You would expect the number to be at 150k but almost 500k is incredible. -Mark


The other one I often read for Dynamite on a cringe-worthy comment section of another website is "wow, the number was actually better than I was expecting" even though the number is trash.


----------



## rbl85

If hardcore fans don't like when a PPV finish at midnight then obviously a weekly show exceptionally starting at 10pm and finishing at midnight is not going to do good.

Why stay awake until midnight when you can easily record it and watch it saturday or sunday at a better time ?

The fact that the friday's shows had the biggest DVR % ever since the start of Dynamite just shows that people are not willing to stay awake until midnight to watch wrestling.

The majority of viewers don't even think about the ratings when they watch a show, for them watching a show live or the next 2-3 days is the same thing.


----------



## CovidFan

ProjectGargano said:


> 600k? That would be awful.


Completely agree but I think a lot of people won't realize it's back on Wednesday's and will miss the first one or two. Some will have found something else. People are creatures of habit.


----------



## Chan Hung

ProjectGargano said:


> Their Saturday show in two weeks will be at 8pm, a better timeslot.


That one im curious really what the rating will be compared to Friday.


----------



## NathanMayberry

rbl85 said:


> Rampage is a 1 hour show and i can assure you that TNT would be very happy with 500K at 10pm


Why would they be happy with that? 

They can put on a random movie that could do that easily.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rbl85

Chan Hung said:


> That one im curious really what the rating will be compared to Friday.


The fact that some people on this forum asked if AEW was now on friday for ever show that AEW have to do a way better job on this.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Chan Hung said:


> That one im curious really what the rating will be compared to Friday.


It should be up with Omega vs Jungle Boy main eventing but something less than 750k would be a disappointment for me.


----------



## rbl85

ProjectGargano said:


> It should be up with Omega vs Jungle Boy main eventing but something less than 750k would be a disappointment for me.


Between 700 and 750K mean at least 800K for the next wednesday.


----------



## ProjectGargano

rbl85 said:


> Between 700 and 750K mean at least 800K for the next wednesday.


Yes, this would be alright i guess. Then when they go back on road would be good having +900k episodes.


----------



## NathanMayberry

rbl85 said:


> If hardcore fans don't like when a PPV finish at midnight then obviously a weekly show exceptionally starting at 10pm and finishing at midnight is not going to do good.
> 
> Why stay awake until midnight when you can easily record it and watch it saturday or sunday at a better time ?
> 
> The fact that the friday's shows had the biggest DVR % ever since the start of Dynamite just shows that people are not willing to stay awake until midnight to watch wrestling.
> 
> The majority of viewers don't even think about the ratings when they watch a show, for them watching a show live or the next 2-3 days is the same thing.


That’s a lame ass excuse that can be used for literally anything on tv but it doesn’t because of how lame it would be to use this excuse. 

These shows aren’t starting off with a lot of viewers that are dropping off. Viewership starts off low and ends low. The third hour of raw does 1.5 million at 10 PM on a Monday night. Smackdown ends with almost 2 million at 9:59 PM. In fact, most of the episodes of Miz and Mrs and Straight Up Steve Austin that started at 11 PM on Monday beat this. So miss me with that bullshit about a 10 PM time slot on a Friday night being this overwhelming barrier to getting viewers. 

If dynamite was must watch or even good people would watch it even at inconvenient times live. 

The rating reflects the quality of the show. I watched the last half hour of Smackdown and the first 45 minutes of Dynamite on Friday and there is no question what the better show was. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

rbl85 said:


> If hardcore fans don't like when a PPV finish at midnight then obviously a weekly show exceptionally starting at 10pm and finishing at midnight is not going to do good.
> 
> Why stay awake until midnight when you can easily record it and watch it saturday or sunday at a better time ?
> 
> The fact that the friday's shows had the biggest DVR % ever since the start of Dynamite just shows that people are not willing to stay awake until midnight to watch wrestling.
> 
> The majority of viewers don't even think about the ratings when they watch a show, for them watching a show live or the next 2-3 days is the same thing.


That's not really a legitimate excuse though, they started off the first week on Saturday's with what 550k viewers? I forget the exact number but it was around that, and they've lost over 100k viewers over the next couple of weeks, it's telling their own hardcore viewers that they don't care about the Friday shows, and those 100k viewers have said it's not worth tuning in live for, so they don't. Being put in a death spot shouldn't be a reason to half ass the show.


----------



## yeahright2

Ratings are in, that means we have a winner in the ratings game
AEW Ratings prediction game
@RapShepard - that was a pretty good guess, congratulations! 

The 487K last week was disappointing. Increase from the week before, but still.. It´s like they´re not even trying because it´s Friday night.


----------



## rbl85

yeahright2 said:


> Ratings are in, that means we have a winner in the ratings game
> AEW Ratings prediction game
> @RapShepard - that was a pretty good guess, congratulations!
> 
> The 487K last week was disappointing. Increase from the week before, but still..* It´s like they´re not even trying because it´s Friday night.*


It wouldn't change anything maybe a couple thousands here and there but nothing big.


----------



## yeahright2

rbl85 said:


> It wouldn't change anything maybe a couple thousands here and there but nothing big.


I actually expected around 700K diehard fans to follow them to Friday night. Guess I was wrong there.
And even if it is a bad timeslot, they should still try to put on the best possible show in order to keep as many viewers as possible. I´m not saying they should do Blood and Guts or something like that, but D.O as a big part of the show, and the Bucks having the same match as always.. That doesn´t get many people interested on a Friday.
Viewers equals advertising money.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Doing these must miss episodes, they are not investing in a good returning number on July 7. They aren't even building anything for the return. They are focused on Jungle Boy vs Omega on the Saturday episode that no one needs to see because we all know it's a pointless job match.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Mister Sinister said:


> Doing these must miss episodes, they are not investing in a good returning number on July 7. They aren't even building anything for the return. They are focused on Jungle Boy vs Omega on the Saturday episode that no one needs to see because we all know it's a pointless job match.


Imagine trying to draw a TV audience and the marquee match you go with is Kenny Omega vs Jungle Boy, a match that would be on Heat in the Attitude Era. It's so tone deaf.


----------



## VIP86

wrestling wise
actually i'm looking forward to see Kenny Omega vs Jungle Boy
but i fear The Good Brothers, Young Bucks, Don Callis will ruin it for me
this needs to be a Clean match with no shenanigans whatsoever


----------



## CM Buck

BroncoBuster3 said:


> So it's up to the interpretation of the mods? I'd like to compare what others have been permanently banned for compared to what LifeInCattleClass has been doing for at least the last two months, even longer when I was lurking. I can't imagine anyone else doing any worse than he has.


Yes. Also I can't permanently ban without permission unless its obvious spam. I think a reminder to just discuss instead of niggle should suffice.

@ProjectGargano looked more like a backhanded compliment. But his got a point. 500 k in a death slot is decent ulterior motive or not


----------



## fabi1982

rbl85 said:


> The fact that the friday's shows had the biggest DVR % ever since the start of Dynamite just shows that people are not willing to stay awake until midnight to watch wrestling.


And the facts you saw where? besides some random tweet from Meltzer saying "those DVR numbers are HUGE"? I didnt see any numbers shared regarding DVR.


----------



## DammitChrist

The XL 2 said:


> A lot of people have supported AEW because its a national promotion not named WWE, but keep featuring the Bucks, Omega, and Cody on top and see how many people eventually tune out in droves. The Bucks don't belong on national TV and Omega and Rhodes are midcard talents.


Nah, the Young Bucks do belong on TV. Plus, the likes of Kenny Omega and Cody Rhodes are great talents who are worthy of being in the upper card.



NathanMayberry said:


> To the surprise of no one, the Young Bucks spotfest caused viewers to tune out of the show for the night.
> 
> Their trios spotfest did the same for me this week.


It's like the obvious fact that the awful time slot (which is made more evident by how each consecutive segment afterwards got progressively lower in viewership) is such a foreign concept to you.

The Young Bucks have held up viewership fairly well in the past multiple times.



ProjectGargano said:


> Isn´t this baiting?


The answer is yes.



NathanMayberry said:


> That’s a lame ass excuse that can be used for literally anything on tv but it doesn’t because of how lame it would be to use this excuse.
> 
> These shows aren’t starting off with a lot of viewers that are dropping off. Viewership starts off low and ends low. The third hour of raw does 1.5 million at 10 PM on a Monday night. Smackdown ends with almost 2 million at 9:59 PM. In fact, most of the episodes of Miz and Mrs and Straight Up Steve Austin that started at 11 PM on Monday beat this. So miss me with that bullshit about a 10 PM time slot on a Friday night being this overwhelming barrier to getting viewers.
> 
> If dynamite was must watch or even good people would watch it even at inconvenient times live.
> 
> *The rating reflects the quality of the show. I watched the last half hour of Smackdown and the first 45 minutes of Dynamite on Friday and there is no question what the better show was.*
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I watch both of those shows live on a weekly basis. The answer to your question here is Dynamite, and yes, the Friday night time slot that approaches midnight is a death slot on TNT.

Smackdown is the 3rd best wrestling show on TNT behind Dynamite and NXT btw.

If we went with your flawed logic here regarding ratings equating to quality, then that'll mean Raw is automatically the "better" wrestling show/product compared to Dynamite because they have greater viewership; which just isn't true since Raw is often regarded to be badly inconsistent in quality compared to the other wrestling shows. 

Anyway, early-July can't come any sooner.


----------



## Dark Emperor

fabi1982 said:


> And the facts you saw where? besides some random tweet from Meltzer saying "those DVR numbers are HUGE"? I didnt see any numbers shared regarding DVR.


It's the usual Meltzer spin being taken as gospel by AEW fans. He always has an excuse at hand and the diehards will forever cling on to it.


----------



## Extremelyunderrated

ProjectGargano said:


> Interested to see if they will be capable to go back to the +800K viewership when they go back to Wednesdays.


Idk, unfortunately I think they've really dropped the ball, nobody cares about Impact, so why should the viewers care about Impact guys crossing over to AEW? They feature way too many boring and terrible acts, the dork order stuff, Marko Stunt, Janela, Scorpio Sky, Nyla Rose, A 52 year old Dustin Rhodes, etc. What they should have done is push Christian and treat him like a bigger deal and have him take the title off Omega. The Cody Rhodes drama each week is tiresome too. I was heavily invested in AEW but the dork order and Cody stuff is starting to kill my interest. Also the shows have become too predictable and they've signed way too many wrestlers, it's really hard to keep up with who's on their bloated roster.


----------



## RainmakerV2

From the outhouse to the penthouse baby.


----------



## thorn123

VIP86 said:


> wrestling wise
> actually i'm looking forward to see Kenny Omega vs Jungle Boy
> but i fear The Good Brothers, Young Bucks, Don Callis will ruin it for me
> this needs to be a Clean match with no shenanigans whatsoever


I am not happy seeing outside interference with Kenny ... he is supposed to be the best in the world, right.


----------



## Sbatenney

ProjectGargano said:


> It should be up with Omega vs Jungle Boy main eventing but something less than 750k would be a disappointment for me.


Really, I could get if it was something like Christian vs Omega or maybe Hangman vs Omega but really Jungle Boy is a project right now, he isn't a full Main Eventer. I think it could be around 700k mark, not a bad thing given the whole different days thing that has happened due to Playoffs but still i'll be shocked if they gain all the viewers back right away. 

Then again it all depends how much promotion TNT does to let fans know it's back at a normal time, not from America so don't know about how well they let everyone know that it was on Friday nights the past few weeks(outside of the actual AEW show) but my guess would be not very well given the numbers they got on Fridays.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*I'm surprised viewers increased, even if slight. These shows really suck.*


----------



## yeahright2

The Legit DMD said:


> *I'm surprised viewers increased, even if slight. These shows really suck.*


6/4 Dynamite

The Young Bucks (Matt Jackson & Nick Jackson) defeated Death Triangle (PAC & Penta El Zero M) (9:42)
Cody Rhodes & Lee Johnson (w/ Arn Anderson) defeated QT Marshall & Anthony Ogogo (9:21)
Jungle Boy & Christian Cage defeated Private Party (Isiah Kassidy & Marq Quen) (11:20)
Red Velvet (w/ KiLynn King & Big Swole) defeated The Bunny (w/ The Blade) (7:00)
Dustin Rhodes defeated Nick Comoroto in a Bullrope Match (10:08)

6/11 Dynamite

Christian Cage defeated Angélico (w/ Matt Hardy & Jack Evans) (9:24)
Death Triangle (PAC & Penta El Zero M) & Eddie Kingston defeated The Young Bucks (Matt Jackson & Nick Jackson) & Brandon Cutler in a Six Man Tag Team Match (13:06)
Miro (c) defeated Evil Uno to retain the AEW TNT Championship (9:36)
Lance Archer (w/ Jake Roberts) defeated Chandler Hopkins (0:52)
Nyla Rose (w/ Vickie Guerrero) defeated Leyla Hirsch (8:45)
Hangman Page & 10 defeated Brian Cage & Powerhouse Hobbs (w/ Hook & Ricky Starks) (10:18)
Better card last week than the week before. and the increase from 462K to 487K is nothing.


----------



## TheGreatBanana

487,000 viewers is nothing to celebrate about and horrendous viewership for a promotion that’s trying to grow its audience and had higher viewership in the past. It highlights a key problem with the AEW programming and people have gotten tired of it. There is no buzz for the show and it’s a clusterfuck when you watch. It is a boring show these days.


----------



## kingfunkel

Sorry but Omega is just a glorified Val Venis. Decent worker but not main event material. 
The young bucks need to go away, I have no idea why he's brought them in as EVP. 
Picking some indie outlaws over people with experience of national TV. 

AEW no longer has that buzz about it, it's fizzled out too much for it to grow any further. 1.2m is their ceiling and that's only for massive gimmick events.

Being in the UK I can't watch it till Wednesday, if it's as bad as the last few months....I'm calling it a write off. Giving up with the idea that it's possible to have an alternative to the WWE.


----------



## ProjectGargano

kingfunkel said:


> Sorry but Omega is just a glorified Val Venis. Decent worker but not main event material.
> The young bucks need to go away, I have no idea why he's brought them in as EVP.
> Picking some indie outlaws over people with experience of national TV.
> 
> AEW no longer has that buzz about it, it's fizzled out too much for it to grow any further. 1.2m is their ceiling and that's only for massive gimmick events.
> 
> Being in the UK I can't watch it till Wednesday, if it's as bad as the last few months....I'm calling it a write off. Giving up with the idea that it's possible to have an alternative to the WWE.


Glorified Val Venis. FFS, what a person have to read in this forum.


----------



## RainmakerV2

ProjectGargano said:


> Glorified Val Venis. FFS, what a person have to read in this forum.


Omega is not everyone's cup of tea. Val Venia may be a little strong, but, I get his point.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Its no shock the rating was low. I really enjoy Dynamite but I didn't end up watching it until Monday evening as watching wrestling at the weekend isn't top of my list of things to do.


----------



## Kentucky34

So AEW are drawing less than half a million viewers?

I think the graveyard timeslot and lack of NXT as competition cancel each other out. So 500k is probably all they are drawing right now. 

Not good.


----------



## omaroo

Same old arguement on shitty days and timeslots.

I will be shocked if they are not around 800k-900k when they return on Wednesdays next month.

They may not be growing their audience for various reasons but their hardcore fanbase is still there.


----------



## Kentucky34

omaroo said:


> Same old arguement on shitty days and timeslots.
> 
> I will be shocked if they are not around 800k-900k when they return on Wednesdays next month.
> 
> They may not be growing their audience for various reasons but their hardcore fanbase is still there.


I think the audience is getting bored other than the super hardcore AEW fans who scream the loudest.


----------



## Deathiscoming

I'm more concerned with this upcoming dynamite which I'll be making the effort to download for the first time in ages-despite only being interested in Andrade, and Hager vs Wardlow. I might check out the Trios match as well but that's about it. 

The ratings will continue to swing somewhere between 500k-1Million for the foreseeable future.. So it hardly makes sense to keep debating about the reasons ad nauseam. People who have something worth investing in the show will bother to watch, and those who don't, won't. End of story.


----------



## Bubbly2

Comparing Omega to Val Venis is.....strange.

But when I went back on the WWE network and watched old stuff from ECW, I saw a big similarity between Omega and Jerry Lynn.


----------



## thorn123

Omega is the best in ring worker in the world, but (as good as Don Callis is), I think AEW missed the point by not having Omega be the belt collector as a face.
(Not that any of this would affect viewership)


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

kingfunkel said:


> Sorry but Omega is just a glorified Val Venis. Decent worker but not main event material.
> The young bucks need to go away, I have no idea why he's brought them in as EVP.
> Picking some indie outlaws over people with experience of national TV.
> 
> AEW no longer has that buzz about it, it's fizzled out too much for it to grow any further. 1.2m is their ceiling and that's only for massive gimmick events.
> 
> Being in the UK I can't watch it till Wednesday, if it's as bad as the last few months....I'm calling it a write off. Giving up with the idea that it's possible to have an alternative to the WWE.


Don't you ever insult the name of Val Venis by comparing him to that dork again. Val was more over than Kenny could ever dream of.


----------



## One Shed

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Don't you ever insult the name of Val Venis by comparing him to that dork again. Val was more over than Kenny could ever dream of.


I was also friends with him on his personal Facebook for a few years and he lives near me. His views eventually got a bit much to read though. Also, I have never encountered a dude as obsessed with pot as he is. He is at some new level of obsessed and now that it is legal here I bet he is in heaven.

I wonder what he has been up to...oh he works for a pot dispensary and has been making controversial posts online. About the same as last time I checked.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Another week and another week of people not understanding anything in that time slot wont do good numbers ..no one expected AEW to do great numbers 10 pm on a friday ..DVRs are a thing ..its gonna be back to 800 k or higher back on Wednesday


----------



## Chan Hung

Remember people were saying, when AEW is back in front of fans they'll be awesome again, the shows will rock! Well, lets think about that..If we gauge the last few weeks, AEW quality has been worse since they've had fans. Regardless of what day its on, what does it say about them as a company putting on such weak shows for returning fans? To be honest, if these shows continue to suck and they feature talent jobbers that should stay on Dark, the company may go dark sometime literally sooner than later. They have so much talent and money invested, but they choose to feature job guys. Go figure.


----------



## La Parka

Botchy SinCara said:


> Another week and another week of people not understanding anything in that time slot wont do good numbers ..no one expected AEW to do great numbers 10 pm on a friday ..DVRs are a thing ..its gonna be back to 800 k or higher back on Wednesday


So they’re going back to the numbers they had when they were opposed by NXT?

how is it a good thing to not gain any of the NXT audience?


----------



## Botchy SinCara

La Parka said:


> So they’re going back to the numbers they had when they were opposed by NXT?
> 
> how is it a good thing to not gain any of the NXT audience?


800 K to a mill is their average and there is nothing wrong with that right now ...plus DVRs


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Chan Hung said:


> Remember people were saying, when AEW is back in front of fans they'll be awesome again, the shows will rock! Well, lets think about that..If we gauge the last few weeks, AEW quality has been worse since they've had fans. Regardless of what day its on, what does it say about them as a company putting on such weak shows for returning fans? To be honest, if these shows continue to suck and they feature talent jobbers that should stay on Dark, the company may go dark sometime literally sooner than later. They have so much talent and money invested, but they choose to feature job guys. Go figure.


Meanwhile ticket sales are hot and PPV numbers keep improving ...getting about 500 K in the friday night deathslot isnt gonna do anything ..AEW is gonna be around for a while


----------



## DammitChrist

Kentucky34 said:


> I think the audience is getting bored other than the super hardcore AEW fans who scream the loudest.


Yea, I guarantee this won't age well once they finally get back on the road next month.

I highly doubt the majority of the audience are (and will be) "bored."



PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Don't you ever insult the name of Val Venis by comparing him to that dork again. Val was more over than Kenny could ever dream of.


Nah, I don't see any 'dork' here. I'm pretty sure that Kenny Omega is way more over.

Hell, he managed to connect with the crowds well, and get over with them in multiple wrestling promotions around the world (especially in NJPW plus AEW).



Chan Hung said:


> Remember people were saying, when AEW is back in front of fans they'll be awesome again, the shows will rock! Well, lets think about that..If we gauge the last few weeks, AEW quality has been worse since they've had fans. Regardless of what day its on, what does it say about them as a company putting on such weak shows for returning fans? To be honest, if these shows continue to suck and they feature talent jobbers that should stay on Dark, the company may go dark sometime literally sooner than later. They have so much talent and money invested, but they choose to feature job guys. Go figure.


Dude, come on, you *need* 'job guys' to put over the top guys. That's not a reason why the company will apparently 'close shop soon' (which they won't).


----------



## Ger

Chan Hung said:


> I am suprised this was not posted.
> 
> Here are the ratings. If anyone else can confirm or something.
> 
> *AEW Dynamite on TNT pulled in 487,000 viewers*, *which is up from the show last week that did 462,000.
> 
> They drew a 0.19 rating in the 18-49 demographic, which is the same as the previous week’s 0.19.*
> 
> Brandon Thurston of WrestleNomics (Source) They reported the ratings.
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Will they re-think putting Rampage on Fridays around the same time?


I remember some experts saying here, that the audience would just not know about friday. But wasn't the first friday show the one with the best rating?




Klitschko said:


> Still can't break the 500k mark. Ouch, but at least it went up a bit I guess. Thanks for posting that @Chan Hung.


Meanwhile we are at a point, where making 500k would be a serious accomplishment.


----------



## Kentucky34

DammitChrist said:


> Yea, I guarantee this won't age well once they finally get back on the road next month.
> 
> I highly doubt the majority of the audience are (and will be) "bored."


People said the number would stay over 1 million once NXT moved to Tuesdays. Didn't happen. 

They will probably draw 600-700k when they move back to Wednesday nights. Probably around 500k by the end of the year.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW finished 16th on cable last Friday, down from 9th the week before despite the demo remaining the same. As expected, the NBA dominated cable ratings.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Chan Hung said:


> Remember people were saying, when AEW is back in front of fans they'll be awesome again, the shows will rock! Well, lets think about that..If we gauge the last few weeks, AEW quality has been worse since they've had fans. Regardless of what day its on, what does it say about them as a company putting on such weak shows for returning fans? To be honest, if these shows continue to suck and they feature talent jobbers that should stay on Dark, the company may go dark sometime literally sooner than later. They have so much talent and money invested, but they choose to feature job guys. Go figure.


*Yeah, I'd be pissed if I went to the Miami show to see an hour of the Dork Order, 20 minutes of the Young Bucks, and no Britt Baker.*


----------



## rbl85

Chan Hung said:


> Remember people were saying, when AEW is back in front of fans they'll be awesome again, the shows will rock! Well, lets think about that..If we gauge the last few weeks, AEW quality has been worse since they've had fans. Regardless of what day its on, what does it say about them as a company putting on such weak shows for returning fans? To be honest, if these shows continue to suck and they feature talent jobbers that should stay on Dark, the company may go dark sometime literally sooner than later. They have so much talent and money invested, but they choose to feature job guys. Go figure.


Except that friday's shows aren't live (i'm not sure if all of them were not live) and didn't have fans (because taped saturday or sunday).

Last week show only had wrestlers at ringside.


----------



## TD Stinger

Apparently the 9/22 episode of Dynamite will be from Arthur Ashe Stadium:


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> Yea, I guarantee this won't age well once they finally get back on the road next month.
> 
> I highly doubt the majority of the audience are (and will be) "bored."
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, I don't see any 'dork' here. I'm pretty sure that Kenny Omega is way more over.
> 
> Hell, he managed to connect with the crowds well, and get over with them in multiple wrestling promotions around the world (especially in NJPW plus AEW).
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, come on, you *need* 'job guys' to put over the top guys. That's not a reason why the company will apparently 'close shop soon' (which they won't).


Val Venis got bigger pops in the Attitude Era every week than Kenny Omega ever got in his career. He was definitely more over.


----------



## Cosmo77

The aew audience isnt bored,just dynamite no thanks to the nba is on at a terrible hour and 10 pm is too late esp,after smackdown,

on point 2, Omega used to be good,his us run is boring.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Val Venis got bigger pops in the Attitude Era every week than Kenny Omega ever got in his career. He was definitely more over.


Nah, the answer to who’s more over between the 2 men is still Kenny Omega. 

Hell, by all means, bring back Val Venis soon. 

I guarantee you that Omega’s crowd reactions over the next several months would dwarf Venis’s crowd responses.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, the answer to who’s more over between the 2 men is still Kenny Omega.
> 
> Hell, by all means, bring back Val Venis soon.
> 
> I guarantee you that Omega’s crowd reactions over the next several months would dwarf Venis’s crowd responses.


I'm not talking about Val Venis in the current day mate and you know that, I'm referring to Val in his prime, he was more over than Omega has been in his life.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> I'm not talking about Val Venis in the current day mate and you know that, I'm referring to Val in his prime, he was more over than Omega has been in his life.


Dude, he had a porn gimmick that’s guaranteed to get those cheap reactions, and that was back when fans were hyped for trash TV.

That ‘overness’ fizzled out shortly once Venis eventually joined Right to Censor, and that was about a couple of years once his sexual gimmick got introduced. 

On the other hand, Kenny Omega is the bigger name, and he’s managed to connect with various crowds in different wrestling companies as a top guy for an extended period of time. 

Omega is genuinely more over than Venis was, especially longevity-wise and consistency-wise.


----------



## Deathiscoming

Val Venis' entrance and gyration/towel routine got louder pops than most of these modern workrate wrestlers. Val Venis would make a better World champion than them too.

But yes, A Kenny Omega or Seth Rollins match is more entertaining than a Val Venis match. But logically speaking, they should be the IC champion and Prime Val Venis the World champion.


----------



## AuthorOfPosts

People seem to have forgotten how big the Attitude Era was and how small the current wrestling scene is and how much of a distant 2nd place AEW are in the current wrestling scene. Val Venis was definitely a bigger deal than Omega (and a lot better on the mic).

Fans wouldn't let Omega get away with his terrible mic work and his cringeworthy facial expressions if he was in the WWE. He's also not the best in the world in the ring. Styles is better, Rollins is better, Zayn is better, 80% of the NXT roster is better, including NXT UK. Might be the 3rd best in the ring for AEW after Andrade and Christian though.


----------



## DammitChrist

You’re kidding me here. 

Omega is easily the bigger star between both men.


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> You’re kidding me here.
> 
> Omega is easily the bigger star between both men.


You're right and wrong. He's mattered more for his given promotions than Val Venis did. But do to when Val Venis wrestled he certainly is a bigger star than Omega just by virtue of eyes that seen him and folk that dug the gimmick. 

It's basically like comparing a 80/90s mid tier boy band to a current day critically acclaimed but largely underground rock band. The former enjoyed more top tier success popularity wise, but the latter has the better body of work.


----------



## DammitChrist

Well, I’ll be a son of a gun then :damn


----------



## One Shed

I mean, Al Snow's styrofoam head was more over than anyone from today with the exception of Daniel Bryan. So, yeah Val was definitely more over and certainly known by an order of magnitude more people than Kenny. Not Kenny's fault either. That is where wrestling is today.


----------



## Deathiscoming

Most of these modern workrate wrestlers are superior talent as far as in-ring work, no doubt. But man, in 1998/1999, someone like D'Lo brown was just another guy, but in 2021 he would stand out and be conspicuously cool based on his entrance music, head bobbing, swagger, gait, mannerisms, gestures and intensity ALONE, probably his mic work too.

I'd also think many more people in 2021 would buy a "Down with the brown" T-shirt or catch phrase than they would geeks like Omega, or Riddle with his stupid "Bro" T-shirt .

I would also prefer D'Lo as my World champion as compared to today's guys(with the exception of AJ Styles and Daniel Bryan).

As a side note it's always a damn blast just watching D'Lo browns entrances alone on YouTube.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Kenny Omega average viewership: 800,000

Val Venis average viewership: 4-5 million


Obviously different times but still, Val was in a time that was able to reach a larger audience.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Dave "totally not an AEW shill" Meltzer on the Kenny Omega vs Val Venis debate:










This totally reads like something I'd see here. I'm now convinced he posts here.


----------



## Aedubya

The trolling here is sublime tbf


----------



## Dark Emperor

NathanMayberry said:


> Dave "totally not an AEW shill" Meltzer on the Kenny Omega vs Val Venis debate:
> 
> View attachment 103065
> 
> 
> This totally reads like something I'd see here. I'm now convinced he posts here.


If that is real, Meltzer loses credibility everyday. i don't get it, why is he obsessed with Omega? He ain't no Austin or Rock man.


----------



## 3venflow

7/14 Dynamite in Garland, Texas has now sold over 4,000 tickets. Current tickets on sale total 4,436 and maximum capacity is 4,888, so this could be a sell out once they announce some matches.


----------



## rbl85

3venflow said:


> 7/14 Dynamite in Garland, Texas has now sold over 4,000 tickets. Current tickets on sale total 4,436 and maximum capacity is 4,888, so this could be a sell out once they announce some matches.


How can it be a sell out when 3 sections are not open ?

You're talking about Cedar Park not Garland.


----------



## 3venflow

rbl85 said:


> How can it be a sell out when 3 sections are not open ?
> 
> You're talking about Cedar Park not Garland.


Yes, mistake by me. It is the Cedar Park show.

It can also be a sell out with limited capacity. Like New Japan has claimed sell outs of the Tokyo Dome (60,000+ capacity) with 38,000 in attendance as that was just how they configured it.


----------



## TD Stinger

The 2 Texas shows coming up look pretty good attendance wise. The Miami show on 7/7 looks like it still has some tickets it needs to move though. Lots of blue dots last time I saw it.


----------



## Klitschko

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Kenny Omega average viewership: 800,000
> 
> Val Venis average viewership: 4-5 million
> 
> 
> Obviously different times but still, Val was in a time that was able to reach a larger audience.


I see your point, but I can also see what @DammitChrist is saying. He's an Omega fan, but I'm a giant Roman Stan, and it would be like saying that Venis is a bigger star then Roman Reigns since he was seen by more people. Ehhhh, that's not how it works really.


----------



## yeahright2

NathanMayberry said:


> Dave "totally not an AEW shill" Meltzer on the Kenny Omega vs Val Venis debate:
> 
> View attachment 103065
> 
> 
> This totally reads like something I'd see here. I'm now convinced he posts here.


I call bs. It´s been a loooong time since anyone in WWE wanted to have anything to do with Meltzer, not just a few years (unless a few means 10). And the wording "Brainwashed WWE guys" really shows his bitterness over that.
If Uncle Dave really did went to dinner with WWE guys, then he should provide the names. If he can´t or won´t he´s full of sh*t.


----------



## Chan Hung

Texas also seems to be good to WWE. Glad for AEW it's strong.


----------



## rbl85

Chan Hung said:


> Texas also seems to be good to WWE. Glad for AEW it's strong.


Corpus Christi is in Texas tho


----------



## NathanMayberry

3venflow said:


> Yes, mistake by me. It is the Cedar Park show.
> 
> It can also be a sell out with limited capacity. Like New Japan has claimed sell outs of the Tokyo Dome (60,000+ capacity) with 38,000 in attendance as that was just how they configured it.
> 
> View attachment 103074


There is no such thing as a sell out with limited capacity. 

It’s called a wrestling show with tarps. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

NathanMayberry said:


> There is no such thing as a sell out with limited capacity.
> 
> It’s called a wrestling show with tarps.


There can be logistical reasons for not opening certain seats. I have no idea if the show in question has them, but if a promotion chooses not to open a certain section for reasons that don't involve slow ticket sales, I think we can give them the benefit of the doubt when they say 'sold out'. I mean, it's not like this show has plodding ticket sales (4,000+ sold with 0 matches announced), so if they choose not to open those 400 extra seats, they may have a reason (production related?) for it or else they're just pissing away potential income.


----------



## Brad Boyd

Two Sheds said:


> I mean, Al Snow's styrofoam head was more over than anyone from today with the exception of Daniel Bryan. So, yeah Val was definitely more over and certainly known by an order of magnitude more people than Kenny. Not Kenny's fault either. That is where wrestling is today.


Same goes for Crash Holly. Even Perry Saturn and his mop got him more over than Kenny Omega and his moppy hair. Wrestling just isn't that popular anymore, Val Venis and Al Snow were vibrant personalities and exuded far more charismatic traits in their prime than some average joe looking Canadian in his prime.



PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Kenny Omega average viewership: 800,000
> 
> Val Venis average viewership: 4-5 million
> 
> 
> Obviously different times but still, Val was in a time that was able to reach a larger audience.


Kenny Omega would have made it as far as Shawn Stasiak or Dean Malenko in the attitude era. Maybe his ceiling would be that of a guy like Steven Richards.


----------



## rbl85

Brad Boyd said:


> Same goes for Crash Holly. Even Perry Saturn and his mop got him more over than Kenny Omega and his moppy hair. Wrestling just isn't that popular anymore, Val Venis and Al Snow were vibrant personalities and exuded far more charismatic traits in their prime than some average joe looking Canadian in his prime.
> 
> 
> Kenny Omega would have made it as far as Shawn Stasiak or Dean Malenko in the attitude era. Maybe his ceiling would be that of a guy like Steven Richards.


Yeah and in 2021 a character like Stone Cold wouldn't have been popular at all.

You can't compare wrestlers from 20 years ago with the wrestlers of 2021.


----------



## Brad Boyd

rbl85 said:


> Yeah and in 2021 a character like Stone Cold wouldn't have been popular at all.
> 
> You can't compare wrestlers from 20 years ago with the wrestlers of 2021.


Are you saying this because of Stone Colds domestic violence history? Steve Austin and Rock are synonomous with pro wrestling itself to this day. They're more relevant than all of pro wrestling is to this day.


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> Yeah and in 2021 a character like Stone Cold wouldn't have been popular at all.
> 
> You can't compare wrestlers from 20 years ago with the wrestlers of 2021.



Lmao sweet Jesus.


----------



## Kentucky34

Omega isn't the best wrestler in the world. Gargano is.

Omega isn't the biggest star in the industry. Seth Rollins is.


----------



## One Shed

rbl85 said:


> Yeah and in 2021 a character like Stone Cold wouldn't have been popular at all.
> 
> You can't compare wrestlers from 20 years ago with the wrestlers of 2021.


Yes, one of the most charismatic wrestlers of all time would be curtain jerking in 2021. Holy crap if people believe this.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Kentucky34 said:


> Omega isn't the best wrestler in the world. Gargano is.
> 
> Omega isn't the biggest star in the industry. Seth Rollins is.


You forgot one:

-Thunder Rosa is not the best female wrestler in the world. Eva Marie is.


----------



## El Hammerstone

rbl85 said:


> Yeah and in 2021 a character like Stone Cold wouldn't have been popular at all.
> 
> You can't compare wrestlers from 20 years ago with the wrestlers of 2021.


Wow...just, fucking Wow.


----------



## La Parka

rbl85 said:


> Yeah and in 2021 a character like Stone Cold wouldn't have been popular at all.
> 
> You can't compare wrestlers from 20 years ago with the wrestlers of 2021.


----------



## DammitChrist

Jeez, way to misinterpret what @rbl85 meant in his post.

He's saying that someone like Steve Austin would've been way more restricted in today's booking environment, and he would've struggled to get more over (as much as he did throughout the Attitude Era) because of that. Hell, I think even The Rock admitted that about himself a while ago.

He's not saying that Austin wasn't charismatic enough to get over at all, especially considering the fact that he's one of the most charismatic characters of all time in professional wrestling.

However, I do think Austin would fare better with this company in 2021 since he'd get more freedom to kick more ass and cut more promos with such intensity.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Let's forget the fact that Hangman was perhaps the most over guy on the roster at one point while doing a bootleg Austin thing, with barely an ounce of the same charisma. I say this as a Hangman fan as well.


----------



## Dr. Middy

rbl85 said:


> Yeah and in 2021 a character like Stone Cold wouldn't have been popular at all.
> 
> You can't compare wrestlers from 20 years ago with the wrestlers of 2021.


Okay I had to respond to this one haha. 

So realistically, would Stone Cold have been able to get the opportunities to get to the level of stardom he did during the Attitude Era? Probably not, given the landscape of WWE these days and how difficult it is to succeed if Vince and Co. aren't behind you. Austin was so damn talented in his own right though that at the very least he would have become a main eventer I would think, but it makes me wonder if he would have been saddled with a dumb gimmick that would have killed him or something. I remember an interview saying he would have a tough time in current WWE.

That being said, the everyman anti-hero who stuck it to his boss, fuck that would be even more over in 2021 if anything. There will always be a place in wrestling for that, with how so many people do hate the people they work for. 

But I do agree that making comparisons 20+ years in difference is a real stretch and almost worthless to me. Why are we comparing Omega and Val Venis other than wanting to say the cheers he gets makes him more over than him because fans they were loud for everything? It's just a comparison that says nothing to me other than Attitude Era good, today bad or something.


----------



## rbl85

Brad Boyd said:


> Are you saying this because of Stone Colds domestic violence history? Steve Austin and Rock are synonomous with pro wrestling itself to this day. They're more relevant than all of pro wrestling is to this day.


No it's just that the Stone Cold character wouldn't have been able to exist today, not in the WWE.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> Okay I had to respond to this one haha.
> 
> *So realistically, would Stone Cold have been able to get the opportunities to get to the level of stardom he did during the Attitude Era? Probably not, given the landscape of WWE these days and how difficult it is to succeed if Vince and Co. aren't behind you. Austin was so damn talented in his own right though that at the very least he would have become a main eventer I would think, but it makes me wonder if he would have been saddled with a dumb gimmick that would have killed him or something. I remember an interview saying he would have a tough time in current WWE.*
> 
> That being said, the everyman anti-hero who stuck it to his boss, fuck that would be even more over in 2021 if anything. There will always be a place in wrestling for that, with how so many people do hate the people they work for.
> 
> But I do agree that making comparisons 20+ years in difference is a real stretch and almost worthless to me. Why are we comparing Omega and Val Venis other than wanting to say the cheers he gets makes him more over than him because fans they were loud for everything? It's just a comparison that says nothing to me other than Attitude Era good, today bad or something.


Yep, that's exactly what he was trying to say about Austin. You pretty much nailed it here too 

I do agree that "character" was the wrong term for him to use about Austin struggling more though. Jon Moxley has a similar character in AEW, and he's pretty damn over with the overall audience. I think something like "booking environment" would've been a much more accurate term to use.


----------



## Klitschko

Brad Boyd said:


> Are you saying this because of Stone Colds domestic violence history? Steve Austin and Rock are synonomous with pro wrestling itself to this day. They're more relevant than all of pro wrestling is to this day.





RainmakerV2 said:


> Lmao sweet Jesus.


He's 100% right though. Austin would have been hated in 2021 because he isn't an amazing wrestler in the ring, and because he's pushed by the company. People would shit on him for having segments and say the only reason he is on top is because the company is pushing him as their golden child. I can see it now. "Well of course Austin sells the most shirts when he's the most promoted guy in the company" and "they are shoving Austin down our throats" and "Austin can't do more then 3 moves in the ring". Cmon, don't pretend like he would be loved by the leftover smarks of today lol.

Also, this isn't a dig at Austin. It's a dig at the fans of today. Add on top his domestic abuse stuff, and you know people would try to get him fired for it.


----------



## DammitChrist

Klitschko said:


> He's 100% right though. Austin would have been hated in 2021 because he isn't an amazing wrestler in the ring, and because he's pushed by the company. People would shit on him for having segments and say the only reason he is on top is because the company is pushing him as their golden child. I can see it now. "Well of course Austin sells the most shirts when he's the most promoted guy in the company" and "they are shoving Austin down our throats" and "Austin can't do more then 3 moves in the ring". Cmon, don't pretend like he would be loved by the leftover smarks of today lol.
> 
> Also, this isn't a dig at Austin. It's a dig at the fans of today. Add on top his domestic abuse stuff, and you know people would try to get him fired for it.


Eh, I disagree with that because I really believe that many wrestling fans today would enjoy Steve Austin as an overall talent since he's one hell of a great wrestler, is extremely charismatic, is amazing on the promo department, and is able to pull off a badass character in such a convincing way.

I'd say that there'd only be a minority of fans complaining about his push. I wouldn't be one of them. That's for sure. I think Austin is awesome!

However, I do agree that some folks on Twitter would target the guy though for the domestic abuse incident.


----------



## Brad Boyd

Klitschko said:


> He's 100% right though. Austin would have been hated in 2021 because he isn't an amazing wrestler in the ring, and because he's pushed by the company. People would shit on him for having segments and say the only reason he is on top is because the company is pushing him as their golden child. I can see it now. "Well of course Austin sells the most shirts when he's the most promoted guy in the company" and "they are shoving Austin down our throats" and "Austin can't do more then 3 moves in the ring". Cmon, don't pretend like he would be loved by the leftover smarks of today lol.
> 
> Also, this isn't a dig at Austin. It's a dig at the fans of today. Add on top his domestic abuse stuff, and you know people would try to get him fired for it.


Honestly I think even the wild workrate marks today would be wanting Austin to be on top. I don't see the use for speculation about that and I highly doubt that Austin wouldn't be a top guy in 2021 today if he was in his prime. He'd make MJF look like a midget.


----------



## 3venflow

Austin 3:16 would quite possibly get vetoed today out of fear of offending stockholders/the general public.

The beer drinking could be an issue on WWE's PG programming.

Middle fingers would be a no-no.

His language would be 'WWE-ized' to fit the template. Definitely no 'this ain't a race thing' type promos. 'I'mma whip your -beep- in front of the WWE Universe this Saturday at Hell in a Cell'

He'd probably lack all the edginess of SCSA and be toned down so much he wouldn't resemble the guy from 1998. Might even be closer to Stunning Steve Austin than Stone Cold Steve Austin if he arrived today.


----------



## 3venflow

More on-topic, big sales for the Boston show it seems.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1405596748538597382


----------



## Klitschko

3venflow said:


> Austin 3:16 would quite possibly get vetoed today out of fear of offending stockholders/the general public.
> 
> The beer drinking could be an issue on WWE's PG programming.
> 
> Middle fingers would be a no-no.
> 
> His language would be 'WWE-ized' to fit the template. Definitely no 'this ain't a race thing' type promos. 'I'mma whip your -beep- in front of the WWE Universe this Saturday at Hell in a Cell'
> 
> He'd probably lack all the edginess of SCSA and be toned down so much he wouldn't resemble the guy from 1998. Might even be closer to Stunning Steve Austin than Stone Cold Steve Austin if he arrived today.


All of these are facts in my opinion. Just like how there is a ton of guys that would be much better in the Attitude Era, there is also guys from that era that would get wrecked by all of the constant restrictions put on wrestlers in this day and age.


----------



## Kentucky34

rbl85 said:


> Yeah and in 2021 a character like Stone Cold wouldn't have been popular at all.
> 
> You can't compare wrestlers from 20 years ago with the wrestlers of 2021.


This is true. 

Rock and Cena would not get over today.

Austin's workrate would need a lift for him to get over with the modern audience.


----------



## Kentucky34

DammitChrist said:


> Jeez, way to misinterpret what @rbl85 meant in his post.
> 
> He's saying that someone like Steve Austin would've been way more restricted in today's booking environment, and he would've struggled to get more over (as much as he did throughout the Attitude Era) because of that. Hell, I think even The Rock admitted that about himself a while ago.
> 
> He's not saying that Austin wasn't charismatic enough to get over at all, especially considering the fact that he's one of the most charismatic characters of all time in professional wrestling.
> 
> However, I do think Austin would fare better with this company in 2021 since he'd get more freedom to kick more ass and cut more promos with such intensity.


This is why today's talent is so underrated.

Imagine what Seth would be doing without the shackles?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Regarding the Austin thing, it really depends on a couple of things:

1) Is he basically the same character he was in his main event run?

2) Is he booked and featured more prominently than everyone?

If the answer to both of those is yes, and then he’s outdrawing everyone else in the business by a landslide and it’s not even close. Austin was a star, and the perfect character combined with near perfect booking would make him a star.

It’s weird though, because depending on which company he’s in the answer to one of those questions might be a no.

AEW would likely have the character be the same. However they like to get everyone over they would likely not feature him more than anyone else, leading to him feeling the same as everyone else and not as special.

WWE would definitely dumb down his character in the current environment. Scripting will also take a lot away from him. However if he was a guy Vince went with as the top guy still and features him the same amount as Roman for example, he would be a far bigger draw than Roman still even as a watered down version of his AE counterpart. Assuming he’s not an entirely different silly character that has 0% of making any impact.

Although work rate wise Austin was great in ring prior to neck injury. I think assuming that never happens, he’d be able to work at a top level and would be respected (though I can’t see him doing a lot of crazy athletic moves, but he’d play well with the constant false finishers and selling it through body language and facial expressions).

Thing is though, Austin was mainly a promo guy anyway and so I think he’d be a top guy for fans who prefer excellent promos consistently. Even in WWE, there are still wrestlers who shine on the mic. Guys like Miz, Sami, etc do feel completely natural. Maybe they’re not scripted, but if that’s the case no reason to think Austin couldn’t make that happen either (just that he wouldn’t be allowed to use certain words he’d use back in the day).


----------



## omaroo

3venflow said:


> More on-topic, big sales for the Boston show it seems.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1405596748538597382


Very good news

So barring the big show in September at Arthur ashe have tickets gone on sale for the other shows during that month?

It's strange as they havent announced venues for shows in August.


----------



## ProjectGargano

omaroo said:


> Very good news
> 
> So barring the big show in September at Arthur ashe have tickets gone on sale for the other shows during that month?
> 
> It's strange as they havent announced venues for shows in August.


They have Houston on August 18th and Milwaukee on August 25th. They don't announced August 4rd and August 11th yet.

These shows like Boston are rescheduled because they would happened last year and didn't happened because COVID.


----------



## 3venflow

Charlotte show (Fight for the Fallen) has now sold 3,580 tickets. Last time they were there, they sold 3,600 so they're going to surpass that comfortably.



omaroo said:


> So barring the big show in September at Arthur ashe have tickets gone on sale for the other shows during that month?
> 
> It's strange as they havent announced venues for shows in August.


August 18: Fertitta Center in Houston, Texas (about 7,000 seats)
August 25: UWM Panther Arena in Milwaukee, WI (up to 12,700 seats)

Looks like most in September are on sale.

I don't have much info because the above account has started paywalling some of his (great) coverage behind Patreon, but they look like pretty big facilities.

Judging by these seat maps, tickets could be moving fast... I mean, I doubt they've held back on releasing floor seats so I assume they have sold out.

9/15 Newark at the Prudential Center (17,000ish)










9/29 Rochester at Blue Cross Arena (13,000ish):










They are also running the 10,000 seat Liacouras Center in Philly on October 6th and 10,600 seat Chaifetz Arena in Saint Louis on November 5th. Also listed is a show at the 9,000 seat UNO Lakefront Arena in New Orleans on January 22nd.


----------



## ProjectGargano

3venflow said:


> Charlotte show (Fight for the Fallen) has now sold 3,580 tickets. Last time they were there, they sold 3,600 so they're going to surpass that comfortably.
> 
> 
> 
> August 18: Fertitta Center in Houston, Texas (about 7,000 seats)
> August 25: UWM Panther Arena in Milwaukee, WI (up to 12,700 seats)
> 
> Looks like most in September are on sale.
> 
> I don't have much info because the above account has started paywalling some of his (great) coverage behind Patreon, but they look like pretty big facilities.
> 
> Judging by these seat maps, tickets could be moving fast... I mean, I doubt they've held back on releasing floor seats so I assume they have sold out.
> 
> 9/15 Newark at the Prudential Center (17,000ish)
> 
> View attachment 103135
> 
> 
> 9/29 Rochester at Blue Cross Arena (13,000ish):
> 
> View attachment 103136
> 
> 
> They are also running the 10,000 seat Liacouras Center in Philly on October 6th and 10,600 seat Chaifetz Arena in Saint Louis on November 5th. Also listed is a show at the 9,000 seat UNO Lakefront Arena in New Orleans on January 22nd.


Yes, these were the "Covid" rescheduled shows. I wonder where they will be at August 4rd and August 11th.


----------



## omaroo

3venflow said:


> Charlotte show (Fight for the Fallen) has now sold 3,580 tickets. Last time they were there, they sold 3,600 so they're going to surpass that comfortably.
> 
> 
> 
> August 18: Fertitta Center in Houston, Texas (about 7,000 seats)
> August 25: UWM Panther Arena in Milwaukee, WI (up to 12,700 seats)
> 
> Looks like most in September are on sale.
> 
> I don't have much info because the above account has started paywalling some of his (great) coverage behind Patreon, but they look like pretty big facilities.
> 
> Judging by these seat maps, tickets could be moving fast... I mean, I doubt they've held back on releasing floor seats so I assume they have sold out.
> 
> 9/15 Newark at the Prudential Center (17,000ish)
> 
> View attachment 103135
> 
> 
> 9/29 Rochester at Blue Cross Arena (13,000ish):
> 
> View attachment 103136
> 
> 
> They are also running the 10,000 seat Liacouras Center in Philly on October 6th and 10,600 seat Chaifetz Arena in Saint Louis on November 5th. Also listed is a show at the 9,000 seat UNO Lakefront Arena in New Orleans on January 22nd.


Great work mate with these updates BTW.

Some big arenas they are planning to go to from September also.

Don't know if they can sell out all of them. But if most tickets are sold should be a success for them imo.

Depsite the contrary AEW is still popular even with its flaws.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Two Sheds said:


> I mean, Al Snow's styrofoam head was more over than anyone from today with the exception of Daniel Bryan. So, yeah Val was definitely more over and certainly known by an order of magnitude more people than Kenny. Not Kenny's fault either. That is where wrestling is today.


*I was about to say Kenny would be jobbing to Al Snow and the mannequin head in the Attitude Era. The delusion of people acting like he's more over than peak Val Venis is amusing.*


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *I was about to say Kenny would be jobbing to Al Snow and the mannequin head in the Attitude Era. The delusion of people acting like he's more over than peak Val Venis is amusing.*


Except that Kenny Omega IS more over than Val Venis. 

The fact that Omega has managed to get over among various wrestling crowds as a top guy all over the world supports this fact.

The Ruthless Aggression era is arguably the period that’s most similar to the Attitude Era, but yet I guarantee you that Val Venis came out to lukewarm crowd reactions, and that pretty much nobody hyped for him to be a top guy.

The same can’t be said for Omega who’s consistently been over with the wrestling audience for the past few years, AND he has a big fanbase too who actually WANTS him to be a top guy for a wresting company. Hell, I’ll even go as far to say that Omega has the bigger fanbase over Venis too. 

Someone else on here brought up a good point. If we’re going by this misleading idea that Val Venis is “more over” than Kenny Omega (which just isn’t true at all, especially since a large segment of the wrestling crowds/audience never loudly rejected his push at all throughout his recent runs), then he’s also “more over” than the Universal Champion too (who’s actually been rejected by crowds in his first few years as a top guy). 

It’s actually amusing that you’re blatantly denying Omega’s overness in favor of Venis for some reason, and it just exposes how delusional you’re being on here.


----------



## Prosper

These are some really strong ticket sales I'm seeing for shows that are months away. Very good sign as to fan interest growing as it seems like they are selling faster than they were pre-COVID. Hopefully they come here to Baltimore. Would really like to attend the New York Grand Slam show though. It's probably gonna be the biggest and best show they've ever done once it's all done.


----------



## .christopher.

Prosper said:


> Get rid of .christopher and Mr.316 and we'll be in a good place. You and the rest are fine.


:'(


----------



## DaSlacker

DammitChrist said:


> Except that Kenny Omega IS more over than Val Venis.
> 
> The fact that Omega has managed to get over among various wrestling crowds as a top guy all over the world supports this fact.
> 
> The Ruthless Aggression era is arguably the period that’s most similar to the Attitude Era, but yet I guarantee you that Val Venis came out to lukewarm crowd reactions, and that pretty much nobody hyped for him to be a top guy.
> 
> The same can’t be said for Omega who’s consistently been over with the wrestling audience for the past few years, AND he has a big fanbase too who actually WANTS him to be a top guy for a wresting company. Hell, I’ll even go as far to say that Omega has the bigger fanbase over Venis too.
> 
> Someone else on here brought up a good point. If we’re going by this misleading idea that Val Venis is “more over” than Kenny Omega (which just isn’t true at all, especially since a large segment of the wrestling crowds/audience never loudly rejected his push at all throughout his recent runs), then he’s also “more over” than the Universal Champion too (who’s actually been rejected by crowds in his first few years as a top guy).
> 
> It’s actually amusing that you’re blatantly denying Omega’s overness in favor of Venis for some reason, and it just exposes how delusional you’re being on here.


It's a silly argument because it's impossible to know what gimmick Kenny Omega would have had in that era or where he would have worked. 

In WWF guys like Sean Morley, Charles Wright, Mike Lockwood, Mark Henry etc got over huge because they were given gimmicks that worked with that crowd. Some were very average workers. In WCW, where family friendly was the agenda and gimmicks were often nonexistent, a lot of those guys would have been hearing crickets on WCW Pro. 

In ECW you could get over with an edgy gimmick or by being an athletic, seasoned wrestler with a taste for high octane matches. Could certainly see Omega having hot matches with Storm, RVD, Credible. 

In WCW he would be hanging with Benoit, Saturn, Eddie, Malenko, Jericho, Chavo, Guerrera, Psychosis. I'd wager his mini theatrics might help him a little.


----------



## DammitChrist

DaSlacker said:


> It's a silly argument because it's impossible to know what gimmick Kenny Omega would have had in that era or where he would have worked.
> 
> In WWF guys like Sean Morley, Charles Wright, Mike Lockwood, Mark Henry etc got over huge because they were given gimmicks that worked with that crowd. Some were very average workers. In WCW, where family friendly was the agenda and gimmicks were often nonexistent, a lot of those guys would have been hearing crickets on WCW Pro.
> 
> In ECW you could get over with an edgy gimmick or by being an athletic, seasoned wrestler with a taste for high octane matches. Could certainly see Omega having hot matches with Storm, RVD, Credible.
> 
> In WCW he would be hanging with Benoit, Saturn, Eddie, Malenko, Jericho, Chavo, Guerrera, Psychosis. I'd wager his mini theatrics might help him a little.


Yea, Kenny Omega’s fun mini-theatrics and his goofy mannerisms are a big reason why I became a big fan of his years ago (along with his incredible in-ring ability too)  

I’m sure there’s plenty of other wrestling fans who feel the same way, and I bet Omega would’ve been accepted 20-25 years ago too in some form.


----------



## validreasoning

Very hard to compare what you guys are comparing.

Technically Venis never drew any money by himself. Austin and Vince drew the money then later Rock and all the boats rose due to high tide.

Omega has drawn money in the past during his NJPW run and later his indy stint in US. His AEW run has been massively underwhelming but this was a guy who 3-4 years ago was selling out venues if his name was added to card.. Venis was never that guy


----------



## Wolf Mark

kingfunkel said:


> Sorry but Omega is just a glorified Val Venis. Decent worker but not main event material.
> The young bucks need to go away, I have no idea why he's brought them in as EVP.
> Picking some indie outlaws over people with experience of national TV.
> 
> AEW no longer has that buzz about it, it's fizzled out too much for it to grow any further. 1.2m is their ceiling and that's only for massive gimmick events.
> 
> Being in the UK I can't watch it till Wednesday, if it's as bad as the last few months....I'm calling it a write off. Giving up with the idea that it's possible to have an alternative to the WWE.


Val Venis should have been much bigger than he was. He could talk, could wrestle, had a great look and was badass. If they could have just pulled back on the porn gimmick, he could have been World Champ. If I had been with WCW back in the day, I would have given him a phonecall and offer him a lot of money.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Wolf Mark said:


> Val Venis should have been much bigger than he was. He could talk, could wrestle, had a great look and was badass. If they could have just pulled back on the porn gimmick, he could have been World Champ. If I had been with WCW back in the day, I would have given him a phonecall and offer him a lot of money.


"I came, I saw, and I came again."


----------



## Wolf Mark

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> "I came, I saw, and I came again."


And that's just because of the blank check Uncle Ted would have given him.


----------



## 3venflow

The top rating for last week's Dynamite was Young Bucks & Cutler vs. Eddie, PAC & Penta with 569,000 and 272,000 in the 18-49. A rise of 17,000 viewers from the previous quarter. The Bucks continue to be one of AEW's better performers in the ratings.

Christian vs. Angelico was Dynamite's top rating in the 18-49 with 292,000 in the 18-49 and 567,000 total viewers. It was the peak 18-49 for both men and women.

QH with Jungle Boy/Kenny did 434,000 (219,000 in the 18-49) and QH with Darby's segment did 500,000 (254,000 in the 18-49).


----------



## NathanMayberry

validreasoning said:


> Very hard to compare what you guys are comparing.
> 
> Technically Venis never drew any money by himself. Austin and Vince drew the money then later Rock and all the boats rose due to high tide.
> 
> Omega has drawn money in the past during his NJPW run and later his indy stint in US. His AEW run has been massively underwhelming but this was a guy who 3-4 years ago was selling out venues if his name was added to card.. Venis was never that guy


By that same logic, can't one just saw that it was Tanahashi and Okada that drew money then later Naito, causing all the boats to rise due to high tide? In the very limited New Japan I've watched, all 3 were much more over than Kenny was. New Japan sold more tickets in the shows after Kenny left than they did the year prior when he was champ.


----------



## volde

Kenny had main evented some shows in NJPW on his own and they sold well/good. He was definetely drawing less in Japan that Tana, Naito or Okada, but he was drawing.


----------



## 3venflow

The Newark show looks like it could be a 10,000+ crowd. This is the one where they had sold 12,000 before the pandemic and 3,000 got refunds when it was postponed, but apparently 9,000 still have their tickets.

They've opened just under 12,000 seats and 1,600 are available.


----------



## shandcraig

i really hope they do decent for ticket sales, we need this road tour to finally become its growth as it makes such a difference. Really they were hardly on tour when they launched before covid started. takes at least 6 months until you can get into a proof.


----------



## 3venflow

While ticket sales in general are very good, the Miami show (Road Rager) is an exception and AEW may have burned out Florida. Strange choice to pick Florida for the return to touring after running there exclusively for the past year-plus. When they had the 50% capacity rule in Miami, it looked like they could sell those tickets, but since opening up the rest of the facility, sales have stagnated big time. 2,575 sold, 2,089 available.

They might pick up when something besides Cody vs. QT is announced.

4,000 now sold for Fight for the Fallen in Charlotte, so they have already beaten the 3,600 paid in 2019 at the same building.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> While ticket sales in general are very good, the Miami show (Road Rager) is an exception and AEW may have burned out Florida. Strange choice to pick Florida for the return to touring after running there exclusively for the past year-plus. When they had the 50% capacity rule in Miami, it looked like they could sell those tickets, but since opening up the rest of the facility, sales have stagnated big time. 2,575 sold, 2,089 available.
> 
> They might pick up when something besides Cody vs. QT is announced.
> 
> 4,000 now sold for Fight for the Fallen in Charlotte, so they have already beaten the 3,600 paid in 2019 at the same building.


yeah - they must've killed Florida by now

as someone else has said - they really should not return for a year


----------



## ProjectGargano

3venflow said:


> While ticket sales in general are very good, the Miami show (Road Rager) is an exception and AEW may have burned out Florida. Strange choice to pick Florida for the return to touring after running there exclusively for the past year-plus. When they had the 50% capacity rule in Miami, it looked like they could sell those tickets, but since opening up the rest of the facility, sales have stagnated big time. 2,575 sold, 2,089 available.
> 
> They might pick up when something besides Cody vs. QT is announced.
> 
> 4,000 now sold for Fight for the Fallen in Charlotte, so they have already beaten the 3,600 paid in 2019 at the same building.


I wonder when they will start to go to Canada. I bet they would get big numbers on the big cities.


----------



## RainmakerV2

380k..God damn.













Kidding Kidding save the tomatoes


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> 380k..God damn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kidding Kidding save the tomatoes


World wars have started for less than that you know XD


----------



## 3venflow

Dynamite did a 552k rating on Friday, up from 487k and 462k in the previous two weeks. 0.20 in the 18-49 demo, up from 0.19. Per PW Torch.


----------



## ProjectGargano

3venflow said:


> Dynamite did a 552k rating on Friday, up from 487k and 462k in the previous two weeks. 0.20 in the 18-49 demo, up from 0.19. Per PW Torch.


Ok, that was better.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Dynamite did a 552k rating on Friday, up from 487k and 462k in the previous two weeks. 0.20 in the 18-49 demo, up from 0.19. Per PW Torch.


weird - wonder why

wasn’t a great show or an amazing card


----------



## ProjectGargano

LifeInCattleClass said:


> weird - wonder why
> 
> wasn’t a great show or an amazing card


I think the MMA match drew some curiosity after all.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ProjectGargano said:


> I think the MMA match drew some curiosity after all.


maybe it did - i hope they steer away from this type of match in the future

to me personally that is the worst of all worlds - trying to make it come across as ‘too legit’ (to quit)

i can’t watch that and not think every second ‘well… that‘s fake, and that, and that, and that’


----------



## yeahright2

ProjectGargano said:


> I think the MMA match drew some curiosity after all.


Perhaps.. Would be interesting to see the hourly breakdowns for once.. I normally doesn´t look too much at that.


----------



## Klitschko

LifeInCattleClass said:


> maybe it did - i hope they steer away from this type of match in the future
> 
> to me personally that is the worst of all worlds - trying to make it come across as ‘too legit’ (to quit)
> 
> i can’t watch that and not think every second ‘well… that‘s fake, and that, and that, and that’


I have not watched Dyanmite the last few weeks, but the MMA match made me tune in. That's probably the reason why, like the other poster mentioned. 

Also welcome back @LifeInCattleClass.


----------



## DammitChrist

I think they’ll probably get better numbers now starting this Saturday (hopefully).


----------



## RainmakerV2

HIAC probably carried a few fans over. SD was up like 100K too I think.


----------



## yeahright2

Results are finally in

(shameless plug)
AEW Ratings prediction game

Better number this week, though I can´t really see why.. The show was not that good. The MMA fight was slightly interesting, but once Wardlow started doing wrestling moves, it was done for me.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Klitschko said:


> I have not watched Dyanmite the last few weeks, but the MMA match made me tune in. That's probably the reason why, like the other poster mentioned.
> 
> Also welcome back @LifeInCattleClass.


hiya Klitsch 

nice to be back

yeah - can imagine the MMA angle sparked some interest

…. does that mean Hager is a draw now?


----------



## Prosper

552K ain’t bad for a Friday night at 10pm


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*The MMA fight definitely peaked the interest. I would like to see how many tuned out afterwards, or stayed.*


----------



## Klitschko

The Legit DMD said:


> *The MMA fight definitely peaked the interest. I would like to see how many tuned out afterwards, or stayed.*


Probably started dropping hard after. I could see the mma fight getting 600k or so. Meh card and a horrible time slot together is a bad combination.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

I'll give them credit for increasing their rating but that's still not a good number. They have to do better than that.


----------



## Extremelyunderrated

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> I'll give them credit for increasing their rating but that's still not a good number. They have to do better than that.


Facts, that number is terrible


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> I'll give them credit for increasing their rating but that's still not a good number. They have to do better than that.


well, hold on to your hat

its sure to be better this week

i’ll be waiting to see you give them credit again


----------



## Chan Hung

Extremelyunderrated said:


> Facts, that number is terrible


It's not a bragging number. Granted it is an increase which is better than a decrease. Lets see how they do this Saturday, im very curious. That spot is earlier and on a different day. Friday so far has not been a wise move in my opinion.


----------



## Danielallen1410

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> I'll give them credit for increasing their rating but that's still not a good number. They have to do better than that.


What is an acceptable number for Friday night 10pm in the USA? Just curious as I’m from the uk and can’t imagine many two hour programs getting much viewing at that time here.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Danielallen1410 said:


> What is an acceptable number for Friday night 10pm in the USA? Just curious as I’m from the uk and can’t imagine many two hour programs getting much viewing at that time here.


Here in Australia we have sports on Friday and Saturday nights and it draws massive ratings especially from clubs and pubs


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Here in Australia we have sports on Friday and Saturday nights and it draws massive ratings especially from clubs and pubs


think in the US monday, thursday and sunday is the big sport days?

in south africa its saturdays by a long shot - fridays are dead for sport


----------



## Kentucky34

Chip Chipperson said:


> Here in Australia we have sports on Friday and Saturday nights and it draws massive ratings especially from clubs and pubs


Welcome back Chip. 

I enjoy your posts in this section.


----------



## ProjectGargano

731k of people saw the MMA match. Sheeeesh


----------



## DaSlacker

Wouldn't be surprised if the ratings dropped quite a bit after the MMA match.

It became quite clumsy, with the fake punches. And the aftermath with MJF and Dean Malenko could have been done a lot better. The rest of the show was all over the place. 

The handicap didn't do much for Darby or the heels, Cassidy vs Bononi was messy, Ford vs Hart was piss poor, the Kenny Omega/Jungle Boy angle was really bad. Bucks 15 min main event was regular Bucks stuff. 

Still it was structured in a way that the 'draws' appeared throughout the show. Probably why they held on to those 100,000 viewers until midnight.


----------



## 3venflow

If there is interest in two guys beating the shit out of each other in a shoot-ish environment, then AEW should explore their own Bloodsport style division or even separate shows (sub-branding is a good way to move towards streaming as it diversifies your content - like what DDT has done in Japan). Use Moxley, Hager, Wardlow and Ogogo as figureheads and bring in badass freelancers and foreign wrestlers like Tom Lawlor, Chris Dickinson, Josh Barnett, Minoru Suzuki, Kazuyuki Fujita and Kazushi Sakuraba for shows.


----------



## DaSlacker

3venflow said:


> If there is interest in two guys beating the shit out of each other in a shoot-ish environment, then AEW should explore their own Bloodsport style division or even separate shows (sub-branding is a good way to move towards streaming as it diversifies your content - like what DDT has done in Japan). Use Moxley, Hager, Wardlow and Ogogo as figureheads and bring in badass freelancers and foreign wrestlers like Tom Lawlor, Chris Dickinson, Josh Barnett, Minoru Suzuki, Kazuyuki Fujita and Kazushi Sakuraba for shows.


Think I'd rather watch that than WWE lite AEW tbf. Problem is it completely exposes all the flips and bumps as ludicrous and pointless. Mixing shoot fighting (worked or otherwise) and sports entertainment has never really worked: Kama, Lion's Den, Tank Abbott, Fight Pit, Raw Underground etc. All fizzled out. Even less chance of it working with the OTT nature of the AEW indie style. 

It could work but it's difficult due to the lack of consistency.


----------



## 3venflow

Fyter Fest night 1 at the H-E-B Center in Cedar Park has only ca.300 tickets left on sale. 4,100ish sold.


----------



## Ger

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> I'll give them credit for increasing their rating but that's still not a good number. They have to do better than that.





Extremelyunderrated said:


> Facts, that number is terrible





Chan Hung said:


> It's not a bragging number. Granted it is an increase which is better than a decrease. Lets see how they do this Saturday, im very curious. That spot is earlier and on a different day. Friday so far has not been a wise move in my opinion.


I think we can say, that AEW didn't make it on that temporary spot.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ger said:


> I think we can say, that AEW didn't make it on that temporary spot.


based on?

i mean, they’re getting that spot permanent come August

if they didn’t make it in that spot, i’m guessing TNT will reschedule Rampage to a different night?


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> based on?
> 
> i mean, they’re getting that spot permanent come August
> 
> if they didn’t make it in that spot, i’m guessing TNT will reschedule Rampage to a different night?


Try Sunday morning, saturday night at 3 AM or some other throwaway timeslot if they fail to deliver at least decent ratings.. Time will tell


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> Try Sunday morning, saturday night at 3 AM or some other throwaway timeslot if they fail to deliver at least decent ratings.. Time will tell


mate, i’ll take Saturday at 3 am - means i can watch it at a decent hour at least


----------



## rbl85

yeahright2 said:


> Try Sunday morning, saturday night at 3 AM or some other throwaway timeslot if they fail to deliver at least decent ratings.. Time will tell


500K is more than decent for a 10pm show


----------



## Martyn

If they could get over 500k on such a ridicolous time slot after 3 weeks of being there, then it means that the fans are able to slowly get used to the new time slot and theres a room for growth. Either way, if Rampage contract is the same like Dynamite's, where theyre getting fixed amount of money a year and making something extra off advertising during the show, then theres nothing to worry about and like they say, its a great additional revenue stream and more exposure for their brand.

Rampage wil be also new and bring attention and with Dynamite pushing the show on every wednsday and crowds back, they should do better than what theyre doing now with those taped episodes of Dynamite.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Martyn said:


> If they could get over 500k on such a ridicolous time slot after 3 weeks of being there, then it means that the fans are able to slowly get used to the new time slot and theres a room for growth. Either way, if Rampage contract is the same like Dynamite's, where theyre getting fixed amount of money a year and making something extra off advertising during the show, then theres nothing to worry about and like they say, its a great additional revenue stream and more exposure for their brand.
> 
> Rampage wil be also new and bring attention and with Dynamite pushing the show on every wednsday and crowds back, they should do better than what theyre doing now with those taped episodes of Dynamite.


think it will be the first time in decades that TNT has a top 20 show on a Friday at 10

if ever


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> mate, i’ll take Saturday at 3 am - means i can watch it at a decent hour at least


Hah, of course you´d see it as a good timeslot.. I´m not so sure the American audience will agree.


----------



## 3venflow

Top 20 of the top 200 on cable last Friday night, with AEW in 15th ranked by the 18-49.


----------



## omaroo

Very impressive considering the death time slot. 

I think we should see around 700k on Saturday as they are in the 8pm time slot again.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> Hah, of course you´d see it as a good timeslot.. I´m not so sure the American audience will agree.


lol - they’ll survive


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Top 20 of the top 200 on cable last Friday night, with AEW in 15th ranked by the 18-49.
> 
> View attachment 103387


not bad - where so you get these now that showbuzz has gone kaput?


----------



## 3venflow

@LifeInCattleClass spoilertv.com, but Friday's cable ratings don't appear until Tuesday.


----------



## TD Stinger

I would guess the Saturday show will do around 750k-800k.

And when they're back on Wednesdays going forward, I would say they'll be in between 900k and 1 million regularly.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

TD Stinger said:


> I would guess the Saturday show will do around 750k-800k.
> 
> And when they're back on Wednesdays going forward, I would say they'll be in between 900k and 1 million regularly.


I highly doubt that AEW will regularly do a million.


----------



## Deathiscoming

3venflow said:


> If there is interest in two guys beating the shit out of each other in a shoot-ish environment, then AEW should explore their own Bloodsport style division or even separate shows (sub-branding is a good way to move towards streaming as it diversifies your content - like what DDT has done in Japan). Use Moxley, Hager, Wardlow and Ogogo as figureheads and bring in badass freelancers and foreign wrestlers like Tom Lawlor, Chris Dickinson, Josh Barnett, Minoru Suzuki, Kazuyuki Fujita and Kazushi Sakuraba for shows.


This would be awesome.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Prosper said:


> 552K ain’t bad for a Friday night at 10pm


“Dynamite will be beating Raw by All Out” - April 2021

“552k ain’t bad” - June 2021

What’s next?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ProjectGargano

NathanMayberry said:


> “Dynamite will be beating Raw by All Out” - April 2021
> 
> “552k ain’t bad” - June 2021
> 
> What’s next?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You are such a baiter.


----------



## NathanMayberry

ProjectGargano said:


> You are such a baiter.


Quoting people directly is bait? 

The dude claims he works in media, yet we get no expertise from him. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CovidFan

NathanMayberry said:


> Quoting people directly is bait?
> 
> The dude claims he works in media, yet we get no expertise from him.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It added nothing to the conversation and it's being antagonistic. It's bait.


----------



## Klitschko

NathanMayberry said:


> “Dynamite will be beating Raw by All Out” - April 2021
> 
> “552k ain’t bad” - June 2021
> 
> What’s next?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


People have been banned for baiting for a lot less. Ask @LifeInCattleClass.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Klitschko said:


> People have been banned for baiting for a lot less. Ask @LifeInCattleClass.


can confirm good brother 

pretty recently i might add


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> I highly doubt that AEW will regularly do a million.


Wait, what? You were unbanned?

I hope you're doing well my guy.



NathanMayberry said:


> “Dynamite will be beating Raw by All Out” - April 2021
> 
> “552k ain’t bad” - June 2021
> 
> What’s next?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You gotta stop following me around like a puppy and taking screenshots of my posts Nathan. I won't have sex with you ever. I'm attracted to women only. It's not happening.

I'm a Digital Marketing Strategist, I don't work in TV and even the best TV execs don't get it right 100% of the time. But I am very well informed when it comes to how ratings work and how lifestyles affect weekly numbers.

Next time put context in your post if you want to engage and refrain from ignoring details.


----------



## Dr. Middy

It's hard to really properly judge numbers and now they'll be on Saturday before moving back to Wednesday nights. But it is good to see the number on Friday consistently rise, and that start of well over 700K is a good sign. 

That being said, we'll really see how much moving and jumping night impacts them when we have a couple weeks back at their normal timeslot. I'd make a guess of them settling around 850-900K or so, but we'll see.


----------



## Klitschko

Hopefully TBS doesn't fuck with them as much when they move.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Prosper said:


> You gotta stop following me around like a puppy and taking screenshots of my posts Nathan. I won't have sex with you ever. I'm attracted to women only. It's not happening.


Yikes.. don't flatter yourself. Doudrop has my heart.



> I'm a Digital Marketing Strategist, I don't work in TV and even the best TV execs don't get it right 100% of the time. But I am very well informed when it comes to how ratings work and how lifestyles affect weekly numbers


And that is why I hold what you say to a higher standard when it comes to ratings...



> Next time put context in your post if you want to engage and refrain from ignoring details.


If you would simply admit that your ratings predictions come from a place of bias rather than expertise, I wouldn't call your ratings out. But when you go around saying "I'm well informed when it comes to how ratings work" and then go from posting about expectations of beating Raw in a few months to saying 500K viewers ain't bad, am I just supposed to ignore that?


----------



## RainmakerV2

That's not bait lol, you can't expect to say dumb shit like AEW is gonna beat RAW then not have it come back to ya when they aren't even in the same stratosphere.


----------



## CovidFan

meh hi DC

^^ an edited post


----------



## One Shed

Prosper said:


> Wait, what? You were unbanned?
> 
> I hope you're doing well my guy.
> 
> 
> 
> You gotta stop following me around like a puppy and taking screenshots of my posts Nathan. I won't have sex with you ever. I'm attracted to women only. It's not happening.
> 
> I'm a Digital Marketing Strategist, I don't work in TV and even the best TV execs don't get it right 100% of the time. But I am very well informed when it comes to how ratings work and how lifestyles affect weekly numbers.
> 
> Next time put context in your post if you want to engage and refrain from ignoring details.


Oh. You missed all the drama.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Chip Chipperson said:


> I highly doubt that AEW will regularly do a million.


AEW fanboys are ridiculous. They had dropped to under 800k even before the move to Fridays. Now all is forgotten and expecting them to get to 1m regularly for a product that is now cold and struggling to get 500k.

When they are way off that 1m viewers, same fans will make an excuse and also say the new lower rating is impressive (no matter the number).

It's a never ending cycle.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Dark Emperor said:


> AEW fanboys are ridiculous. They had dropped to under 800k even before the move to Fridays. Now all is forgotten and expecting them to get to 1m regularly for a product that is now cold and struggling to get 500k.
> 
> When they are way off that 1m viewers, same fans will make an excuse and also say the new lower rating is impressive (no matter the number).
> 
> It's a never ending cycle.


I think you are ridiculous too.


----------



## Dark Emperor

ProjectGargano said:


> I think you are ridiculous too.


You are entitled to your opinion.

But it is pretty silly to expect them to get 1m consistently when they are struggling to get 500k. The funny thing is when the inevitable happens and they dont get near your 1m expectations. You will still find a way to argue how great the rating is. 

Why bother making stupidly optimistic predictions for a cold product with declining fanbase.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Dark Emperor said:


> You are entitled to your opinion.
> 
> But it is pretty silly to expect them to get 1m consistently when they are struggling to get 500k. The funny thing is when the inevitable happens and they dont get near your 1m expectations. You will still find a way to argue how great the rating is.
> 
> Why bother making stupidly optimistic predictions for a cold product with declining fanbase.


How can you say that they have a declining fanbase? They are beating their previous attendances in the same venues as 2019 and they had their second most watched PPV ever less than a month ago.


----------



## Shock Street

ProjectGargano said:


> How can you say that they have a declining fanbase? They are beating their previous attendances in the same venues as 2019 and they had their second most watched PPV ever less than a month ago.


That COULD mean the fanbase is growing but it COULD also mean that they just have a consistent group of hardcores that are still paying for events. That second best selling PPV was the one directly after the best selling one, that's going down no?


----------



## ProjectGargano

Shock Street said:


> That COULD mean the fanbase is growing but it COULD also mean that they just have a consistent group of hardcores that are still paying for events. That second best selling PPV was the one directly after the best selling one, that's going down no?


I just think that is bullshit when someone say that their fanbase is declining because this friday 10pm ratings...


----------



## Shock Street

ProjectGargano said:


> I just think that is bullshit when someone say that their fanbase is declining because this friday 10pm ratings...


Yeah we do need to get back to Wednesdays for a more accurate read, there are people on here who have admitted skipping it because they had better shit to do on a friday night despite being fans


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

So the detracters are on the same bullshit I see.


----------



## El Hammerstone

The Raw Smackdown said:


> So the detracters are on the same bullshit I see.


You're baiting again I see.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ProjectGargano said:


> I just think that is bullshit when someone say that their fanbase is declining because this friday 10pm ratings...


as long as the same energy is kept when they 'grow' again when moving back to 8 on Wednesdays 

also.... are we counting the audience of both Dynamite and Rampage together now to show '500k growth'  - when it happens

remember - outside factors doesn't matter


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

El Hammerstone said:


> You're baiting again I see.


Not really. Just an observation.


----------



## Prosper

NathanMayberry said:


> Yikes.. don't flatter yourself. Doudrop has my heart.
> 
> 
> And that is why I hold what you say to a higher standard when it comes to ratings...
> 
> 
> If you would simply admit that your ratings predictions come from a place of bias rather than expertise, I wouldn't call your ratings out. But when you go around saying "I'm well informed when it comes to how ratings work" and then go from posting about expectations of beating Raw in a few months to saying 500K viewers ain't bad, am I just supposed to ignore that?


Doudrop lol

My ratings predictions come from a place of noticing trends. RAW is trending downwards and AEW at their best is around 1.2mil currently on Wednesday nights. When I said that AEW would be hitting RAW in the ratings, I clearly mentioned that my prediction was for them to meet at around 1.3 - 1.4 eventually, not for AEW to reach 1.8 - 1.9. RAW hit a 1.4 - 1.5 in the 3rd hour recently, how is my prediction that far off from an eventual reality?

You're not supposed to ignore it but I do expect you to refer to the actual reason as to why ratings are what they are when you quote me/try to debate me. You know they are on Friday nights at 10pm currently yet you continue to pretend that these were the ratings they were getting on Wednesdays unopposed. My recent post said 500K wasn't bad for a* Friday night at 10PM*. Not on a regular night.




RainmakerV2 said:


> That's not bait lol, you can't expect to say dumb shit like AEW is gonna beat RAW then not have it come back to ya when they aren't even in the same stratosphere.


That's rich coming from you @RainmakerV2. All you say is dumb shit my guy. Both in the AEW and WWE sections. "ETHan PaGe is a DOrK IDK whY but He JuSt issss"

You Internet cretins don't understand context when you make your arguments. Again, RAW is trending downwards, my prediction is based off of RAW probably dropping down to 1.2 - 1.3 in the future.



Dark Emperor said:


> AEW fanboys are ridiculous. They had dropped to under 800k even before the move to Fridays. Now all is forgotten and expecting them to get to 1m regularly for a product that is now cold and struggling to get 500k.
> 
> When they are way off that 1m viewers, same fans will make an excuse and also say the new lower rating is impressive (no matter the number).
> 
> It's a never ending cycle.





Dark Emperor said:


> You are entitled to your opinion.
> 
> But it is pretty silly to expect them to get 1m consistently when they are struggling to get 500k. The funny thing is when the inevitable happens and they dont get near your 1m expectations. You will still find a way to argue how great the rating is.
> 
> Why bother making stupidly optimistic predictions for a cold product with declining fanbase.


Are you not the same guy that defends RAW/SD to no end in those ratings threads? You always have an excuse when ratings are lower than expected. You're doing the same thing that you're claiming AEW fans are doing. It's okay for you to be optimistic as a WWE fanboy but optimistic AEW fanboys are the ones who are ridiculous? LOL. Clown.

AEW is cold? Yeah okay my guy. Admit it or not, AEW is the most exciting & entertaining US wrestling promotion at the moment despite how you feel about the show. RAW/SD outside of whatever Roman is doing is what you call cold.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Prosper said:


> Doudrop lol
> 
> My ratings predictions come from a place of noticing trends. RAW is trending downwards and AEW at their best is around 1.2mil currently on Wednesday nights. When I said that AEW would be hitting RAW in the ratings, I clearly mentioned that my prediction was for them to meet at around 1.3 - 1.4 eventually, not for AEW to reach 1.8 - 1.9. RAW hit a 1.4 - 1.5 in the 3rd hour recently, how is my prediction that far off from an eventual reality?
> 
> You're not supposed to ignore it but I do expect you to refer to the actual reason as to why ratings are what they are when you quote me/try to debate me. You know they are on Friday nights at 10pm currently yet you continue to pretend that these were the ratings they were getting on Wednesdays unopposed. My recent post said 500K wasn't bad for a* Friday night at 10PM*. Not on a regular night.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's rich coming from you @RainmakerV2. All you say is dumb shit my guy. Both in the AEW and WWE sections. "ETHan PaGe is a DOrK IDK whY but He JuSt issss"
> 
> You Internet cretins don't understand context when you make your arguments. Again, RAW is trending downwards, my prediction is based off of RAW probably dropping down to 1.2 - 1.3 in the future.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you not the same guy that defends RAW/SD to no end in those ratings threads? You always have an excuse when ratings are lower than expected. You're doing the same thing that you're claiming AEW fans are doing. It's okay for you to be optimistic as a WWE fanboy but optimistic AEW fanboys are the ones who are ridiculous? LOL. Clown.
> 
> AEW is cold? Yeah okay my guy. Admit it or not, AEW is the most exciting & entertaining US wrestling promotion at the moment despite how you feel about the show. RAW/SD outside of whatever Roman is doing is what you call cold.


He is a dork. Let's make a poll and see. PayPal bet on it?


----------



## Prosper

RainmakerV2 said:


> He is a dork. Let's make a poll and see. PayPal bet on it?


Lol and what would the poll be? Is Ethan Page a dork yes or no? 

Wrestling fans use the word "dork" like they use the word "geek". The actual definitions of both words would be disregarded in a wrestling poll on WF. 

If you can't give an actual reason as to how he is socially awkward, or an out-of-place and unstylish person so that people actually think about how and why they would think he's a dork then there's no point lol. There needs to be a reason why you think that. I mean I'm not a huge fan of Ethan Page but like I said before the guy has got charisma, mic skills, has a cool look with the jacket, cool "All Ego" gimmick, good in the ring etc. 

That's like saying a Macbook Pro is a bad laptop because it comes in a silver color without having used it before or understanding the specs.


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> Doudrop lol
> 
> My ratings predictions come from a place of noticing trends. RAW is trending downwards and AEW at their best is around 1.2mil currently on Wednesday nights. When I said that AEW would be hitting RAW in the ratings, I clearly mentioned that my prediction was for them to meet at around 1.3 - 1.4 eventually, not for AEW to reach 1.8 - 1.9. RAW hit a 1.4 - 1.5 in the 3rd hour recently, how is my prediction that far off from an eventual reality?
> 
> You're not supposed to ignore it but I do expect you to refer to the actual reason as to why ratings are what they are when you quote me/try to debate me. You know they are on Friday nights at 10pm currently yet you continue to pretend that these were the ratings they were getting on Wednesdays unopposed. My recent post said 500K wasn't bad for a* Friday night at 10PM*. Not on a regular night.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's rich coming from you @RainmakerV2. All you say is dumb shit my guy. Both in the AEW and WWE sections. "ETHan PaGe is a DOrK IDK whY but He JuSt issss"
> 
> You Internet cretins don't understand context when you make your arguments. Again, RAW is trending downwards, my prediction is based off of RAW probably dropping down to 1.2 - 1.3 in the future.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you not the same guy that defends RAW/SD to no end in those ratings threads? You always have an excuse when ratings are lower than expected. You're doing the same thing that you're claiming AEW fans are doing. It's okay for you to be optimistic as a WWE fanboy but optimistic AEW fanboys are the ones who are ridiculous? LOL. Clown.
> 
> AEW is cold? Yeah okay my guy. Admit it or not, AEW is the most exciting & entertaining US wrestling promotion at the moment despite how you feel about the show. RAW/SD outside of whatever Roman is doing is what you call cold.


Outside of the arguments how do you expect AEW to meet with Raw when AEW hasn't yet shown the ability to consistently grow? Take the Friday shows out they weren't exactly going upwards with the absence of NXT and do their biggest numbers when giving something big away. That's not something that reliably suggests AEW will eventually rise to the point they meet a declining Raw. Predicting that AEW will eventually be doing 1.4 or 1.5 is just as much of an ass pull as saying they're going to be die. Right now all we can for sure say is they can consistently do about 800k with losses and gains depending on the climate of the show and TV landscape


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> Outside of the arguments how do you expect AEW to meet with Raw when AEW hasn't yet shown the ability to consistently grow? Take the Friday shows out they weren't exactly going upwards with the absence of NXT and do their biggest numbers when giving something big away. That's not something that reliably suggests AEW will eventually rise to the point they meet a declining Raw. Predicting that AEW will eventually be doing 1.4 or 1.5 is just as much of an ass pull as saying they're going to be die. Right now all we can for sure say is they can consistently do about 800k with losses and gains depending on the climate of the show and TV landscape


Because I believe that the absence of live crowds and the stagnancy of Daily's Place has hindered their growth. Wrestling is all about energy. Shit hit the fan literally 6 months in. We couldn't realistically expect the consistent growth we wanted to see from a new company stuck in the same venue with no fans or live energy. 

Ratings eventually climbed back up as time went on but you can't deny that momentum was shot. But when you look at RAW, their cable audience has been on a downwards trend for 5-6 years now with fans in attendance. If they don't consistently grow when things are truly back to normal then I'll be glad to admit I was wrong. But thinking that AEW should be growing exponentially in this climate is not something that's fair to expect.


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> Because I believe that the absence of live crowds and the stagnancy of Daily's Place has hindered their growth. Wrestling is all about energy. Shit hit the fan literally 6 months in. We couldn't realistically expect the consistent growth we wanted to see from a new company stuck in the same venue with no fans or live energy.
> 
> Ratings eventually climbed back up as time went on but you can't deny that momentum was shot. But when you look at RAW, their cable audience has been on a downwards trend for 5-6 years now with fans in attendance. If they don't consistently grow when things are truly back to normal then I'll be glad to admit I was wrong. But thinking that AEW should be growing exponentially in this climate is not something that's fair to expect.


I could see your argument on them not growing to a degree since it was the pandemic, though they did have the benefit of limited audience unlike Raw. But your prediction just doesn't really make sense as it's overly putting stock in fans. They weren't doing a million consistently when they had fans pre pandemic. So there's no real logical reason to expect them to shoot up about 600k on average just because of fans. It'll help the viewing experience, but it doesn't suddenly make stories inherently better. 

Plus you didn't even factor in that some of the Raw decline could also be due to lack of fans. So if Dynamite you expect an exceptional growth with just the presence of fans, it comes off weird for you to not even consider that Raw might even get a slight to moderate boost that keeps them still out of range for Dynamite.


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> I could see your argument on them not growing to a degree since it was the pandemic, though they did have the benefit of limited audience unlike Raw. But your prediction just doesn't really make sense as it's overly putting stock in fans. They weren't doing a million consistently when they had fans pre pandemic. So there's no real logical reason to expect them to shoot up about 600k on average just because of fans. It'll help the viewing experience, but it doesn't suddenly make stories inherently better.


Stories pre-pandemic in AEW imo were much better than stories run during the pandemic. (Omega/Hangman vs Bucks, Omega/Jericho, PAC/Omega, Cody/Jericho, Cody/Dustin, Darby/Guevara, Cody/MJF Moxley/Jericho etc.) Having fans in attendance gives you the motivation to put on a better product and to keep it at a high level. Because then you know what fans are responding to and what's working, which they have shown the willingness to listen to.

But they took the foot off the petal for a while for obvious reasons. If AEW were able to keep on the hot streak that abruptly ended at Revolution 2021 then I think people would have continued to take notice over time. Or in other words, more of the WWE cable audience would take notice of the buzz that was building. It can't just all happen at once there needs to be consistency week over week with raving fans. Hitting 1.2 - 1.4 consistently given the fluctuations in ratings pre-pandemic is something I would have predicted to happen in 2022-2023 if crowds had stayed and if they continued on the streak of higher quality content they were on. And hey, maybe it's AEW's fault for holding off on stories too long. My recent predictions of AEW hitting RAW when they went unopposed were just based on the trends I was seeing at the time, but consistently hitting RAW's worst of 1.5 every single week? That's gonna take time and I think they will get there down the line.



RapShepard said:


> Plus you didn't even factor in that some of the Raw decline could also be due to lack of fans. So if Dynamite you expect an exceptional growth with just the presence of fans, it comes off weird for you to not even consider that Raw might even get a slight to moderate boost that keeps them still out of range for Dynamite.


They'll get a boost but this decline has been happening since the "put the whole company on one man's back" Cena era. They're not fluctuating in mid-wide margins up and down it's just a steady decline YOY. So it's different. These were the same RAW shows we were getting pre-pandemic and fans will not motivate Vince to put on a better product. That's the difference. AEW's shows were of a higher quality before as stories were more fleshed out and Tony responded to what the crowd dictated, which is what attracts more fans. People will come if you continue to give them what they want. With consistent growth and live touring over time comes more comparisons as far as quality to WWE and more people taking notice.


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> Stories pre-pandemic in AEW imo were much better than stories run during the pandemic. (Omega/Hangman vs Bucks, Omega/Jericho, PAC/Omega, Cody/Jericho, Cody/Dustin, Darby/Guevara, Cody/MJF Moxley/Jericho etc.) Having fans in attendance gives you the motivation to put on a better product and to keep it at a high level. Because then you know what fans are responding to and what's working, which they have shown the willingness to listen to.
> 
> But they took the foot off the petal for a while for obvious reasons. If AEW were able to keep on the hot streak that abruptly ended at Revolution 2021 then I think people would have continued to take notice over time. Or in other words, more of the WWE cable audience would take notice of the buzz that was building. It can't just all happen at once there needs to be consistency week over week with raving fans. Hitting 1.2 - 1.4 consistently given the fluctuations in ratings pre-pandemic is something I would have predicted to happen in 2022-2023 if crowds had stayed and if they continued on the streak of higher quality content they were on. And hey, maybe it's AEW's fault for holding off on stories too long. My recent predictions of AEW hitting RAW when they went unopposed were just based on the trends I was seeing at the time, but consistently hitting RAW's worst of 1.5 every single week? That's gonna take time and I think they will get there down the line.
> 
> 
> 
> They'll get a boost but this decline has been happening since the "put the whole company on one man's back" Cena era. They're not fluctuating in mid-wide margins up and down it's just a steady decline YOY. So it's different. These were the same RAW shows we were getting pre-pandemic and fans will not motivate Vince to put on a better product. That's the difference. AEW's shows were of a higher quality before as stories were more fleshed out and Tony responded to what the crowd dictated, which is what attracts more fans.


It's definitely their fault for not putting on better pandemic stories. I mean Reigns heel turn is all pandemic and it's seen a pretty much complete 180 on his acceptance amongst fans in at least our bubble. If you're airing TV you have to make it count. Like WWE they don't know how to close out a story on a high or not fumble midway through. 

But as far as the prediction I just can't see it as reasonable until they've at least found something we know is breaking into the mainstream consistently, because that's what it's going to take to get to Raw levels even with the constant steady decline. As long as I've been online, let forums and YouTube tell it main roster WWE has been producing the worst weekly wrestling since 2006. AEW just feels like another in a long line of promotions that become the new "best thing going" fad. 

For me AEW is just proof hardcore fans don't know what works anymore than Vince does. AEW certainly doesn't put on a bad show don't get me wrong. I think they're a pretty damn solid show that I rarely feel I wasted my time watching, just like when I watch WWE stuff. But it's hard to take the claims of AEW or NXT producing the best weekly wrestling when they're so behind the defacto worst wrestling show 15 years running, despite both shows having multimillion dollar corporations and networks behind them. 

It's one thing when ROH, LU, NJPW, and Impact or whatever ever promotion is claimed to be the best promotion going but they're fair behind because they don't have a comparable TV deal to Raw and SmackDown (though I still say if it's that great folk will find it). But NXT and AEW have no excuse to not be able to compete with the allegedly worst wrestling show going. 

I think the most realistic prediction is as Raw further declines AEW will slowly decline as folk just say fuck wrestling. AEW has been around long enough that anybody that was going to stop watching WWE just for AEW have done it, at least until AEW finds their proverbial nWo or Austin boom causing moment.


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> It's definitely their fault for not putting on better pandemic stories. I mean Reigns heel turn is all pandemic and it's seen a pretty much complete 180 on his acceptance amongst fans in at least our bubble. If you're airing TV you have to make it count. Like WWE they don't know how to close out a story on a high or not fumble midway through.


I do agree with your point that they should have kept their foot on the pedal but we didn't know what was going on behind the scenes. They were probably freaking out being so new and sacrificed attention put into stories for figuring out who would be in Florida or who would be able to make it to the show every week. Everything was up in the air.

I know this is not your point but the thing with Reigns is that all of the company's creative resources are put into the guy. In watching the Roman/Jey story I didn't think it was even WWE. If Roman got injured tomorrow what would happen? What and who's left? It would be devastating. If you are investing that much into one person then it had better be the best thing ever. So I mean it's not like they consciously took advantage of the time to put on the best stories possible during the pandemic it's just that their 5-year boner for Roman was still hard. I wouldn't really credit WWE for taking the initiative for the sake of the fans enjoyment.



RapShepard said:


> But as far as the prediction I just can't see it as reasonable until they've at least found something we know is breaking into the mainstream consistently, because that's what it's going to take to get to Raw levels even with the constant steady decline. As long as I've been online, let forums and YouTube tell it main roster WWE has been producing the worst weekly wrestling since 2006. AEW just feels like another in a long line of promotions that become the new "best thing going" fad.


I don't think anything will break into the mainstream consistently if we're talking just within the wrestling world. Sure you can have Shaq and Tyson on the show but even if they dropped an NWO-type story out of nowhere that was really popular I doubt it would result in a consistent boost right away. I think the best way for the non-streaming cable audience to grow is through word of mouth and consistent advertising over time. The more live tours the company does, the more advertisements/billboards/local ads will be seen by WWE fans in select cities, and the more likely they are to check it out. It takes 5-6 impressions of an ad on average for someone to give it worthy attention. I'm sure that AEW breaking into the New York market for the first time for Grand Slam will result in a lot of lifelong WWE fans in NYC taking notice. "What is this new promotion doing in NYC I thought only WWE came here".



RapShepard said:


> For me AEW is just proof hardcore fans don't know what works anymore than Vince does. AEW certainly doesn't put on a bad show don't get me wrong. I think they're a pretty damn solid show that I rarely feel I wasted my time watching, just like when I watch WWE stuff. But it's hard to take the claims of AEW or NXT producing the best weekly wrestling when they're so behind the defacto worst wrestling show 15 years running, despite both shows having multimillion dollar corporations and networks behind them.
> 
> It's one thing when ROH, LU, NJPW, and Impact or whatever ever promotion is claimed to be the best promotion going but they're fair behind because they don't have a comparable TV deal to Raw and SmackDown (though I still say if it's that great folk will find it). But NXT and AEW have no excuse to not be able to compete with the allegedly worst wrestling show going.
> 
> I think the most realistic prediction is as Raw further declines AEW will slowly decline as folk just say fuck wrestling. AEW has been around long enough that anybody that was going to stop watching WWE just for AEW have done it, at least until AEW finds their proverbial nWo or Austin boom causing moment.


Loyalty plays a big factor in that. As bad as RAW has supposedly gotten to fans, it still has a dedicated audience that will watch no matter what, just like AEW does. And those people are probably not actively looking for another wrestling program and most may not even be conscious to the fact that AEW exists. Which again comes down to more live tours, advertising, and more word of mouth.

I mean if hardcore fans are raving about content aired on AEW TV, then they can't be far off from what the average modern day wrestling fan is looking for from a wrestling product. It's just that the expansion of AEW's awareness hasn't reached or been impressed on those people enough. I mean how many times does the average person have to see an ad for a restaurant for example before going out of their way to not eat at their favorite restaurant they are loyal to and try it out?


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> I do agree with your point that they should have kept their foot on the pedal but we didn't know what was going on behind the scenes. They were probably freaking out being so new and sacrificed attention put into stories for figuring out who would be in Florida or who would be able to make it to the show every week. Everything was up in the air.
> 
> I know this is not your point but the thing with Reigns is that all of the company's creative resources are put into the guy. In watching the Roman/Jey story I didn't think it was even WWE. If Roman got injured tomorrow what would happen? What and who's left? It would be devastating. If you are investing that much into one person then it had better be the best thing ever. So I mean it's not like they consciously took advantage of the time to put on the best stories possible during the pandemic it's just that their 5-year boner for Roman was still hard. I wouldn't really credit WWE for taking the initiative for the sake of the fans enjoyment.


This is where I think main roster WWE gets a bad rep, because they're not judged with the same scoring criteria as NXT and other promotions. Does Roman get the most focus yes, but he's the top champ and should. But there's been plenty of build on that roster the last year. 

Bianca is a legit top of the division woman. Crews, Sami, and Big E have been either raised or solidified as worthwhile midcard acts. KO has been solidified as that trusted upper midcard swing act that can do whatever and succeed. Cesaro is having a run that suggests he can be used in big spots. Dominic is slowly being brought up as someone to watch. Otis has been shown to be able to pull off being a sympathetic Babyface with the Mandy story and is showing he could possibly be a pretty solid midcard monster heel. This all in the pandemic just on SmackDown mind you. 

But when it comes to main roster WWE these type of things are rarely ever acknowledged because well they're considered the machine and enemy lol




> I don't think anything will break into the mainstream consistently if we're talking just within the wrestling world. Sure you can have Shaq and Tyson on the show but even if they dropped an NWO-type story out of nowhere that was really popular I doubt it would result in a consistent boost right away. I think the best way for the non-streaming cable audience to grow is through word of mouth and consistent advertising over time. The more live tours the company does, the more advertisements/billboards/local ads will be seen by WWE fans in select cities, and the more likely they are to check it out. It takes 5-6 impressions of an ad on average for someone to give it worthy attention. I'm sure that AEW breaking into the New York market for the first time for Grand Slam will result in a lot of lifelong WWE fans in NYC taking notice. "What is this new promotion doing in NYC I thought only WWE came here".


I just don't see touring really mattering as much as the advertising. Not to say don't tour, but I could really only see somebody discovering AEW via going to a show first is if they're gifted a ticket. As far as advertising this is where I think them not feeling truly different to WWE hurts them as far as commercials. If you dipped out of wrestling due to WWE disappointment or the fad being over, their commercials don't exactly show anything that would say 

"jump in this is different than the wrestling you're used to" 




> Loyalty plays a big factor in that. As bad as RAW has supposedly gotten to fans, it still has a dedicated audience that will watch no matter what, just like AEW does. And those people are probably not actively looking for another wrestling program and most may not even be conscious to the fact that AEW exists. Which again comes down to more live tours, advertising, and more word of mouth.
> 
> I mean if hardcore fans are raving about content aired on AEW TV, then they can't be far off from what the average modern day wrestling fan is looking for from a wrestling product. It's just that the expansion of AEW's awareness hasn't reached or been impressed on those people enough. I mean how many times does the average person have to see an ad for a restaurant for example before going out of their way to not eat at their favorite restaurant they are loyal to and try it out?


Yup WWE has definitely a strong loyalty, but the reason I say hardcore fans probably don't know what folk as much as they think, is because brand loyalty can easily be broken if you can provide what that brand does and more. Look at how quickly Sony wrestled the top spot away from a Nintendo that was stuck in it's ways. Even Sega who was actually trying to be forward thinking couldn't keep up. Or even in the business look at how WCW got to the top. They were able to provide fans with wrestling, but the type of product the folk who had grew up since Hulkamania first ran wild wanted to see. AEW as of yet isn't doing that. Maybe one day they'll figure out what the new secret sauce is, but as of now they're not close.


----------



## 3venflow

Pre-sale (code: AEWDMD) has begun for the Pittsburgh double header that will see Dynamite and Rampage taped on separate days.

The facility seems set up to seat around 4,000 for each show right now, but if tickets sell well they could open more sections.

Early Dynamite seat map:










Early Rampage seat map:










Rochester show looks like it could do an 8,000+ attendance, Newark show should do 10,000+.

Saturday's Dynamite should do around 1,000.


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> This is where I think main roster WWE gets a bad rep, because they're not judged with the same scoring criteria as NXT and other promotions. Does Roman get the most focus yes, but he's the top champ and should. But there's been plenty of build on that roster the last year.
> 
> Bianca is a legit top of the division woman. Crews, Sami, and Big E have been either raised or solidified as worthwhile midcard acts. KO has been solidified as that trusted upper midcard swing act that can do whatever and succeed. Cesaro is having a run that suggests he can be used in big spots. Dominic is slowly being brought up as someone to watch. Otis has been shown to be able to pull off being a sympathetic Babyface with the Mandy story and is showing he could possibly be a pretty solid midcard monster heel. This all in the pandemic just on SmackDown mind you.
> 
> But when it comes to main roster WWE these type of things are rarely ever acknowledged because well they're considered the machine and enemy lol


It's just that people are accustomed to WWE and their method of operating so it's hard for anyone to give them the benefit of the doubt lol. You say Sami Zayn is a worthwhile mid-card act but there was a stat that his win at HIAC last week was legit his first real singles win since October 2020. Like that's crazy. He's on the show every week.

Cesaro has been in the company what 15-20 years now? He's getting a main event spot because there's no one else on SD for Roman. Thats why we saw KO vs Roman 5-6 times in a row. Once Edge and Cena come through he's back to his original place and they'll probably put him in another tag team. Then they'll probably turn Rollins before prepping for The Rock. Cesaro's run suggests that he will continually be used in big spots but you and I both know that ain't happening after 20 years 😂

They have put in more effort in the mid-card than usual no doubt, I actually enjoy SD sometimes so this is not me shitting on it, I give them their props too. Bianca has been great and Black's video packages were dope. Like you said, Dominick is being used well and Otis has potential, but WWE history tells me that it won't last long and I'm not optimistic. Big E hasn't been on TV for like 3-4 weeks now I think on a show that prides itself on booking the same people on the show every single week. I don't think that means good things for Big E honestly. What does he do next?

I remember we were debating about Keith Lee back when he debuted and you said he was all good when they changed his ring music and ring gear. To me it looks like they're gonna release the guy soon he hasn't been on the show in months.



RapShepard said:


> I just don't see touring really mattering as much as the advertising. Not to say don't tour, but I could really only see somebody discovering AEW via going to a show first is if they're gifted a ticket. As far as advertising this is where I think them not feeling truly different to WWE hurts them as far as commercials. If you dipped out of wrestling due to WWE disappointment or the fad being over, their commercials don't exactly show anything that would say
> 
> "jump in this is different than the wrestling you're used to"


You're right about the commercials, but that just comes down to using different aesthetics and visuals. Like this one below for example was phenomenal. Do more of this consistently.






If you're still a wrestling fan and you see a Dynamite commercial, why not check it out if you're still interested in the sport?



RapShepard said:


> Yup WWE has definitely a strong loyalty, but the reason I say hardcore fans probably don't know what folk as much as they think, is because brand loyalty can easily be broken if you can provide what that brand does and more. Look at how quickly Sony wrestled the top spot away from a Nintendo that was stuck in it's ways. Even Sega who was actually trying to be forward thinking couldn't keep up. Or even in the business look at how WCW got to the top. They were able to provide fans with wrestling, but the type of product the folk who had grew up since Hulkamania first ran wild wanted to see. AEW as of yet isn't doing that. Maybe one day they'll figure out what the new secret sauce is, but as of now they're not close.


Yeah I mean it'll be tough. There isn't much they can do differently as a live wrestling show. If they want to truly be different they would have to go the route of Lucha Underground or something to that effect. But wrestling fans for the most part generally don't like cinematics in their wrestling because they want the sports feel that they're used to. But we'll see, hopefully they can find that magic formula. If Vince actually cared I'm sure he would have found it by now after 20+ years since wrestling started to decline so it's on Tony now lol.


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> It's just that people are accustomed to WWE and their method of operating so it's hard for anyone to give them the benefit of the doubt lol. You say Sami Zayn is a worthwhile mid-card act but there was a stat that his win at HIAC last week was legit his first real singles win since October 2020. Like that's crazy. He's on the show every week.


What's a real win though, folk also forget WWE actually uses count outs and DQs. He's also been in a storyline where he can afford to lose, because "hey there's a conspiracy holding me down". That's context that matters more than just picking wins and losses. 



> Cesaro has been in the company what 15-20 years now? He's getting a main event spot because there's no one else on SD for Roman. Thats why we saw KO vs Roman 5-6 times in a row. Once Edge and Cena come through he's back to his original place and they'll probably put him in another tag team. Then they'll probably turn Rollins before prepping for The Rock. Cesaro's run suggests that he will continually be used in big spots but you and I both know that ain't happening after 20 years


But does Cesaro need to be a permanent main eventer for him to matter. He's clearly somebody they love to have as a corner stone of the tag division as he makes good oddball couple material. Now if he can add in that he can be a solid midcard floater, what's wrong with that as a position? Anywhere else it'd be acknowledged that he clearly has a spot, even if it's not a top singles spot.



> They have put in more effort in the mid-card than usual no doubt, I actually enjoy SD sometimes so this is not me shitting on it, I give them their props too. Bianca has been great and Black's video packages were dope. Like you said, Dominick is being used well and Otis has potential, but WWE history tells me that it won't last long and I'm not optimistic. Big E hasn't been on TV for like 3-4 weeks now I think on a show that prides itself on booking the same people on the show every single week. I don't think that means good things for Big E honestly. What does he do next?


I definitely get not trusting them story wise, as they certainly have no consistency there lol. For the most part though once Vince picks his toys, he usually does pretty well about consistently using them in some form or fashion. Look at Corbin he hasn't really had a big PPV win since KotR and then MitB and the US title before that. But by God is he not going to be on that TV doing something. So Big E or Otis may not reach the World title, but I can't see them just disappearing. 

You really only disappear if somebody else was fond of you first lol



> I remember we were debating about Keith Lee back when he debuted and you said he was all good when they changed his ring music and ring gear. To me it looks like they're gonna release the guy soon he hasn't been on the show in months.


Well first he was injured and apparently there's trademark issues so who knows. But the thing I think folk view the move up to the main roster to weird. It's like folk expect a 1 to 1 transition. Keith Lee and Andrade both spent the majority of their NXT runs doing fuck all. But the moment they have even a lull the first 6 months on the roster it's apparent ruin. You can't just put everybody in the spotlight and fans acknowledge this everywhere but the main roster. 





> You're right about the commercials, but that just comes down to using different aesthetics and visuals. Like this one below for example was phenomenal. Do more of this consistently.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you're still a wrestling fan and you see a Dynamite commercial, why not check it out if you're still interested in the sport?


For fans I think it comes down to WWE saturated the market prior to AEW coming in. I'll use MMA as an example. I don't miss UFC events, unless I have a prior engagement. That said with them doing 12 PPVs a year (that I immediately pirate) and about 2 ESPN/ESPN+ card a month, catching other MMA promotions cards become kind of a drain. 

So when it comes to Bellator which is the 2nd biggest promotion and full of good talent there 15 shows a year becomes a real pick and choose thing. UFC typically already has at least 3 hours of my Saturday, giving another few hours to MMA on Thursday or Friday becomes a real decision. 



> Yeah I mean it'll be tough. There isn't much they can do differently as a live wrestling show. If they want to truly be different they would have to go the route of Lucha Underground or something to that effect. But wrestling fans for the most part generally don't like cinematics in their wrestling because they want the sports feel that they're used to. But we'll see, hopefully they can find that magic formula. If Vince actually cared I'm sure he would have found it by now after 20+ years since wrestling started to decline so it's on Tony now lol.


I don't think Vince can because he's just too old and I don't think Tony can because he's always been rich and always been a wrestling fan. So they're both kind of out of touch with reality for different reasons. This is when pro wrestling needs a new Paul Heyman that's not tied to TV so they can just try anything. Or WWE or AEW need a modern Vince Russo who likes wrestling, but is also bat shit insane and into the current landscape of TV. Vince, HHH, and Tony don't seem like the type of guys that have a lot of free time to really absorb current culture beyond a surface level.


----------



## 3venflow

I suddenly feel very young.


----------



## rbl85

Funny that NXT is the oldest


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> I suddenly feel very young.
> 
> View attachment 103515


we’re all effectively arguing about a programs(s) with the same audience as the golden girls


----------



## Dark Emperor

3venflow said:


> I suddenly feel very young.
> 
> View attachment 103515


Of course the fanbase is older. Do you guys really think young people are still sitting in front of a TV for 2hrs straight to watch wrestling loaded with ad breaks.

Younger people are savvy enough to download the show, watch clips on YouTube at their leisure etc. Except live sports, older people are the only ones sticking to old habits.

If you look at the crowd at Live shows and read online comments on social media, the average age of Raw, Smackdown or any other wrestling show is not 50+.

This is also why declining ratings has to be put into context on the overall decline in cable numbers.


----------



## .christopher.

This is why wrestling is dying. Not only because they're running off millions and millions of fans at a quick rate, they're making no new fans at all.

WWE and AEW are both childish shows catered to 5 and unders which makes it all the more absurd when you see the average viewerships age.


----------



## Geert Wilders

3venflow said:


> I suddenly feel very young.
> 
> View attachment 103515


Median age. Not average.

I suspect most TV programmes are similar.


----------



## Summer Solstice

Was last night's show sold out at Dailys Place?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Summer Solstice said:


> Was last night's show sold out at Dailys Place?


nope - i think 1k or so tix sold


----------



## DaSlacker

Dark Emperor said:


> Of course the fanbase is older. Do you guys really think young people are still sitting in front of a TV for 2hrs straight to watch wrestling loaded with ad breaks.
> 
> Younger people are savvy enough to download the show, watch clips on YouTube at their leisure etc. Except live sports, older people are the only ones sticking to old habits.
> 
> * If you look at the crowd at Live shows and read online comments on social media, the average age of Raw, Smackdown or any other wrestling show is not 50+.*
> 
> This is also why declining ratings has to be put into context on the overall decline in cable numbers.


From what I've seen of Raw and SmackDown it's predominantly millenials + some generation x. Usually male and sporting beards. A scattering of females from those age groups, but generally a sausage fest. AEW even more so. Might be different at WWE houseshows. 

Though considering how immature wrestling has become, you'd expect the crowds to be filled with kids when live events return. Like it was from the mid 80's to mid 90's - some of those early 90's WWF events looks like a school outing!

If they're not hooking kids in with what they are producing right now, it spells trouble in the future.


----------



## shandcraig

just saw that the Pittsburg dynamite and rampage shows are both being filmed on its normal show days live. I did hear that they had plans on touring rampage too so i wonder if this means it will have its own stage set. Or likely have a configure of a set for dynamite and then change it up for rampage. The idea of having both these shows filmed in the same venue 3 days a part is not going to be practical often. events fill up and they wont be able to likely hold a venue for 3 days straight with its sets ect


----------



## 3venflow

Some new ticket updates from Wrestle Tix:

7/14 Cedar Park: 4,180 (94%) sold, 256 available
7/28 Charlotte: 4,131 (78%) sold, 1,122 available
8/11 Pittsburgh: 3,222 (58%) sold, 1,595 available


----------



## ProjectGargano

3venflow said:


> Some new ticket updates from Wrestle Tix:
> 
> 7/14 Cedar Park: 4,180 (94%) sold, 256 available
> 7/28 Charlotte: 4,131 (78%) sold, 1,122 available
> 8/11 Pittsburgh: 3,222 (58%) sold, 1,595 available


Nice, and Pittsburgh is only on sale since Friday.


----------



## shandcraig

indian cena said:


> I hope they get good ratings for this week, this was maybe the greatest dynamite ever. Dante vs. sydall was littt \m/




i hope it does well so it proves rampage needs to be changed to saturdays and make it more of a proper timeslot and weekend feel show to it. Otherwise its going to fail friday late night


----------



## Chan Hung

Hopefully Saturday's rating comes in today or tomorrow, i'm curious what it received.


----------



## rbl85

Apparently the ratings for Saturday should be pretty bad (we will have them tomorrow) maybe below the last friday show.

Now this is just early numbers, the same numbers that indicated a big increase a few weeks ago when in the end it was a decrease.
The early numbers indicate that the Suns vs Clippers game did huge numbers but once again it's just early stuff.


----------



## ProjectGargano

rbl85 said:


> Apparently the ratings for Saturday should be pretty bad (we will have them tomorrow) maybe below the last friday show.
> 
> Now this is just early numbers, the same numbers that indicated a big increase a few weeks ago when in the end it was a decrease.
> The early numbers indicate that the Suns vs Clippers game did huge numbers but once again it's just early stuff.


If the 22% down, talked by Meltzer in this early numbers, to last week is true this should be pretty bad. It would mean something like only 430k?


----------



## Mr316

No surprise there if the numbers are down. Shows simply aren’t good. No one wants to spend their Saturday night watching this.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Sub 500K with a built up world title match? Ouch


----------



## CovidFan

ProjectGargano said:


> If the 22% down, talked by Meltzer in this early numbers, to last week is true this should be pretty bad. It would mean something like only 430k?


But I didn't think Meltzer would ever report bad numbers for AEW... Pretty awful if it comes out -22% or even negative at all.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Wednesday's show will be key. Will they go back to around 900k? Or will they be noticeably down from the last Wednesday episode number (which tbh I don't even remember - maybe was more like 800k?)


----------



## Chan Hung

Will they stay consistently on Wednesdays now for a while? They've been off a good while, they may take a hit with the ratings.


----------



## La Parka

Saturday at 8 is a fantastic time slot.


If they got a bad rating, that should really motivate AEW to make some major changes to how they present their program.


----------



## anonymous9437

If the rumor of a poor rating is true then this is a big L for Kenny Omega’s drawing power, you would think the AEW super fans would be all tuning in

Saturday night cannot be used as an excuse for the rating as this is a great night for events, AEW PPV’s are usually on this night as well

It’s possible that this month of being off the normal schedule will damage AEW’s rating for Wednesday’s moving forward and I have a hard time believing they will ever crack 1 million viewers on a regular basis

Either way AEW will be fine because the owner can literally run this company at loss for decades with the amount of money he has, even if Warner media cancels them one day, the money mark owner can just buy or create his own network and call it “AEW Network”

AEW fans have zero to worry about so just chill out


----------



## RapShepard

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Wednesday's show will be key. Will they go back to around 900k? Or will they be noticeably down from the last Wednesday episode number (which tbh I don't even remember - maybe was more like 800k?)


They'll be going up against Game 6 of the Suns vs Clippers Western Conference Final game for the 2nd hour.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

If they get a bad rating in a prime time slot on Saturday night, there's no excuses or justifications for it, no matter what people will come up with, it'll be invalid. If they get below 750-800k I'd consider it a failure.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Reality is unless you're a huge super fan of independent wrestling or guys on the AEW shows you probably aren't tuning in.

When you draw big audiences you need to deliver and reality is that when AEW has had those audiences they've always failed to deliver.

I'd love to open a thread where I can book AEW week to week to show all of you guys what I mean by delivering. Perhaps @Firefromthegods could give me a thumbs up or down for that?


----------



## CM Buck

Chip Chipperson said:


> Reality is unless you're a huge super fan of independent wrestling or guys on the AEW shows you probably aren't tuning in.
> 
> When you draw big audiences you need to deliver and reality is that when AEW has had those audiences they've always failed to deliver.
> 
> I'd love to open a thread where I can book AEW week to week to show all of you guys what I mean by delivering. Perhaps @Firefromthegods could give me a thumbs up or down for that?


Just find the be the booker thread man


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Firefromthegods said:


> Just find the be the booker thread man


Nah, it's too busy.


----------



## thorn123

Most of us can agree it was a very good episode. If it doesn’t get the good ratings (which it won’t) it just shows there is no appetite for good wrestling anymore.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> *I'd love to open a thread where I can book AEW week to week to show all of you guys what I mean by delivering. Perhaps @Firefromthegods could give me a thumbs up or down for that?*


fucking hell, please no - as the man says, find the booker thread

its a pinned thread for exactly this


----------



## CM Buck

LifeInCattleClass said:


> fucking hell, please no - as the man says, find the booker thread
> 
> its a pinned thread for exactly this


Nah i unpinned it. In favour of the aew general hodge podge thread.


----------



## TD Stinger

Last time I remember Meltzer talking about the early sign on the ratings, he indicated that the ratings looked to be much higher than the previous week, and then the ratings ended up being lower than the previous week. So, I'll just wait and see about the ratings myself.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Firefromthegods said:


> Nah i unpinned it. In favour of the aew general hodge podge thread.


ahh - well, its somewhere 

i'll even do us all a favour and go find it

edit> there we go, saved us all a world of hurt









Be the booker AEW edition


Though we were going on a mission lol




www.wrestlingforum.com


----------



## DaSlacker

DaveRA said:


> Most of us can agree it was a very good episode. If it doesn’t get the good ratings (which it won’t) it just shows there is * no appetite for good wrestling anymore* .


Or simply little appetite for the wacky sports entertainment style of wrestling.

I love AEW but what do they do that's different to what audiences could see 25 years ago, 15 years ago etc? Yeah, the wrestlers have got smaller and more athletic, the matches have a faster pace with more stuff happening. Apart from that it's business as usual. Same with WWE, apart from that it is 95% dull and has those obvious McMahonisms, that we all grew up with, all over it. At least AEW has some life to it. 

The world has moved on to binge watching TV shows with intricate plots and complex themes that make you think. Spending two hours watching guys take spinning DDTs and perform planchas and walk away unscathed wears thin after a while. It's just passe. And the kids who historically like OTT pro wrestling are busy playing video games online. So an upstart company like AEW can only find devotees and leftover viewers. 

Or the market is just too oversaturared.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Wtf are people expecting when you headline a show with Kenny Omega who has proven time and time and time again that he isn't a draw and a manlet like Jungle Boy who belongs in a Cruiserweight division than challenging for the World Heavyweight Title? Or a card filled with absolute nobodies?

The people who run AEW have needed to change the shit that has been happening there for a long time, but refuse to do so. Primarily because they're surrounded by sycophants who genuinely have them believing that their shit doesn't stink and that they're putting out the best wrestling product of the past 2 decades. They seem to be more interested in what "the competition" is doing than anything else. 


I can't wait to see what excuses are made this time.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

La Parka said:


> Saturday at 8 is a fantastic time slot.
> 
> 
> If they got a bad rating, that should really motivate AEW to make some major changes to how they present their program.


*The thing is, they did a good job this week, but fans may be conditioned to the awful Friday shows and just may not have bothered.*


----------



## Mr316

Ratings are down because the shows are uneventful. Almost nothing ever happens. It’s just match after match after match and nothing special happens. People are not gonna tune in for two hours just for matches. People want to be entertained. People want to feel something while they’re watching. I can promise you, no one feels a damn thing while watching Ethan Page vs Bear Country for 10 minutes.


----------



## NathanMayberry

The Legit DMD said:


> *The thing is, they did a good job this week, but fans may be conditioned to the awful Friday shows and just may not have bothered.*


I disagree.

A movie headlined by no names isn't going to do well at the box office no matter how good it is. A sports game with teams that aren't popular isn't going to do well no matter how good it is. A UFC card with no names isn't going to get a good buyrate no matter how good the fights are. 

Saturday was no different.


----------



## VIP86

save the arguing for when the exact numbers come out
Meltzer's "sources" proved to be imaginary before
so no need to argue based on what he says
just wait until it's confirmed by someone else


----------



## rich110991

Show was good. Clearly the best wrestling show of the week. Deserves a good rating, probably won’t get one. That’s about it really 🤷‍♂️


----------



## TD Stinger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1409916706319831040


----------



## Mr316

Meh.


----------



## 3venflow

So it wasn't the disaster rumoured. You'd hope they're at 800k+ again when they're back on Wednesday every week. Looks like the main event popped a good rating.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

TD Stinger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1409916706319831040


eh, not bad

but i was thinking it should be above 700

But not bad


----------



## RainmakerV2

Mr316 said:


> Ratings are down because the shows are uneventful. Almost nothing ever happens. It’s just match after match after match and nothing special happens. People are not gonna tune in for two hours just for matches. People want to be entertained. People want to feel something while they’re watching. I can promise you, no one feels a damn thing while watching Ethan Page vs Bear Country for 10 minutes.



It's a big budget PWG. That's all it is.


----------



## DammitChrist

That's weird. I guess this week's rating wasn't 'disastrous' after all. 

Kenny Omega vs Jungle Boy was a real banger of a main-event too


----------



## RainmakerV2

DammitChrist said:


> That's weird. I guess this week's rating wasn't 'disastrous' after all.
> 
> Kenny Omega vs Jungle Boy was a real banger of a main-event too



It's on the very low end of acceptable. Saturday at 8 is a great time slot. The UFC card was already over by then too so they didn't have to compete with it.


----------



## Chan Hung

So...can AEW move Rampage now to Saturday?


----------



## Mr316

So obvious that Meltzer is told what to do by his boss Tony Khan. Numbers aren’t good. Not a disaster either. So Meltzer talks like the numbers are gonna be awful and than surprise…not THAT bad after all. 649,000 still sucks BTW.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Well played Meltzer sir. Start a fake rumour of a disastrously low rating.

Then when the actual mediocre rating is revealed, you can big up Kenny Omega as a draw .

I'm not falling for it!


----------



## ProjectGargano

RainmakerV2 said:


> It's on the very low end of acceptable. Saturday at 8 is a great time slot. The UFC card was already over by then too so they didn't have to compete with it.


NBA semi-finals had a great rating and they competed against it.


----------



## RainmakerV2

ProjectGargano said:


> NBA semi-finals had a great rating and they competed against it.



Basketball and wrestling don't share the same fanbase. Shit, RAWs ratings have actually gone up the past few weeks even with the NBA against them.


----------



## ProjectGargano

RainmakerV2 said:


> Basketball and wrestling don't share the same fanbase. Shit, RAWs ratings have actually gone up the past few weeks even with the NBA against them.


In a 11,5M audience i can see at least 50k people changing between them.


----------



## RainmakerV2

ProjectGargano said:


> In a 11,5M audience i can see at least 50k people changing between them.


Dude look at a typical AEW crowd and tell me how many people in it you think could name 2 players on the Hawks or Suns lmao.


----------



## La Parka

Remember when people said this show would challenge Raw within the year?

Yet another mediore rating by AEW and this time at an amazing time slot.


rich110991 said:


> Show was good. Clearly the best wrestling show of the week. Deserves a good rating, probably won’t get one. That’s about it really 🤷‍♂️





DaveRA said:


> Most of us can agree it was a very good episode. If it doesn’t get the good ratings (which it won’t) it just shows there is no appetite for good wrestling anymore.


The show as a whole is not a good wrestling show. It is very much a parody of 90s wrestling angles invovling indy level talent, niche jokes that only certain people would get or even want to get and less than indy level booking. Who is going to tune into that? Anyone old enough has seen it done and seen it done better. Anyone younger is likely not going to be drawn in by this style and almost everyone is going to be confused as to why there are "mud show" signs around the arena or why theres a big sonic ring in a ladder match. 

There might not be an appetite for good wrestling anymore but we'll never know because no one is provoding it at a national level at the moment. The matches are filled with overdone flips and no selling and many of it is just sloppy with 5-6 botches a match and the booking is just awful. Who the fuck ends your saturday night wrestling show with a 46 year old Matt Hardy running in? 

The only people watching this are the few people that are still sticking with wrestling and hoping that one day a wrestling promontion will come back and do it right. I think some of these people do think AEW is doing it right but most people do not. That was proven when NXT stopped running opposite of AEW and AEW almost immedeily drove that entire group away with its weird booking and strange format.


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> eh, not bad
> 
> but i was thinking it should be above 700
> 
> But not bad


I predicted around 700K but i didn't know that a NBA match was at the same time.


----------



## rbl85

3venflow said:


> So it wasn't the disaster rumoured. You'd hope they're at 800k+ again when they're back on Wednesday every week. Looks like the main event popped a good rating.


They will probably be close to 800K this week.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Groundhog Day the thread


----------



## Chan Hung

I think the Friday night experiment and trial run was a failure. If we evaluate the first hour, on each Friday they were on, the ratings in that one hour alone (which they plan to stick with) fell below 590,000. Not really a good sign, especially investing so much resources. Therefore, I would certainly re-think this and try Saturday if it's even possible.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Not bad. It would’ve been horrendous if they did worse than the Friday shows. Not a good number either, but at least an improvement.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*At least they got a significant increase. I'll guess 750 k for next week*.

*@yeahright2 who's our champion this week?*


----------



## Shock Street

The Legit DMD said:


> *At least they got a significant increase. I'll guess 750 k for next week*.
> 
> *@yeahright2 who's our champion this week?*












I bet 650k


----------



## kingfrass44

The Legit DMD said:


> *At least they got a significant increase. I'll guess 750 k for next week*.
> 
> *@yeahright2 who's our champion this week?*


*600-500 k for next week*


----------



## Mr316

Well, they’re going back to their regular timeslot. There’s no NXT. Anything under 800k should be considered a complete disaster.


----------



## ProjectGargano

RainmakerV2 said:


> Dude look at a typical AEW crowd and tell me how many people in it you think could name 2 players on the Hawks or Suns lmao.


I mean, i watch regularly AEW and like NBA aswell.


----------



## 3venflow

Over 3,000 tickets have been sold/distributed for the Rampage debut show in PA. Slightly fewer than the Dynamite show two days before, but comparatively good. A lot of people are buying combo tickets that cover both events. With such a crowd, you'd expect them to put some big matches on Rampage.


----------



## TD Stinger

Apr. 14: 1,219,000 / .44 (First Night unopposed)
Apr. 21: 1,104,000 / .37
Apr. 28: 889,000 / .33 (Biden's Speech)
May 5: 1,090,000 / .42 (Blood & Guts)
May 12: 936,000 / .31
May 19: 821,000 / .28 (Up against big NBA Play in Game, Lakers vs. Warriors)
May 28: 526,000 / .20 (1st Friday Show)
June 4: 462,000 / .19
June 11: 487,000 / .19
June 18: 551,000 / .20
June 26: 649,000 / .21 (Saturday Show)

AEW has had a weird ride since NXT went to Tuesdays, to the point where it feels impossible to predict what their average will be going forward. They come in on that 1st show and do 1.2 millions, shocking a lot of people. They stick around in the million mark for another week, and then of course they crash (compared to the previous weeks) for the Biden speech. They rise back up over a million for Blood & Guts though not as high as I thought they would get (though still good enough for #1 in the Demo that night).

Then the next week with a pretty good card on 5/12, they go back down to the 900k mark. Then up against big NBA competition, they fall down into the 800k range. And since then they've been off Wednesdays.

So 2 months in and it feels like it's still impossible to get a good grasp on what AEW's average week to week audience. Not so much with things like going against the NBA Playoffs (which is affecting all wrestling shows seemingly to at least some degree) but with the constant changes of slot.

I had predicted they could do in the 900k range going forward. We'll see if that's the case starting tomorrow and in the weeks to follow.


----------



## yeahright2

Okay. We finally got the ratings. As @Shock Street said, he probably won. And yes he did.
AEW Ratings prediction game

Not gonna lie.. I had expected them to do better in that prime time slot, with a title match announced weeks ahead.
I think it´s gonna be an initial boost tomorrow, but then they´ll drop down again. Rinse and repeat.


----------



## rbl85

yeahright2 said:


> Okay. We finally got the ratings. As @Shock Street said, he probably won. And yes he did.
> AEW Ratings prediction game
> 
> Not gonna lie.. I had expected them to do better in that prime time slot, with a title match announced weeks ahead.
> I think it´s gonna be an initial boost tomorrow, but then they´ll drop down again. Rinse and repeat.


So for you they're going to do less this wednesday ?


----------



## yeahright2

rbl85 said:


> So for you they're going to do less this wednesday ?


No. They´re gonna do better tomorrow than they did on Saturday. Their first show back on their regular timeslot. But next Wednesday will probably be less. And then a little less. And then they´ll announce a special event, and it´ll rise again. -They already announced the special events but I can´t remember when they are.

But for a normal Wednesday night show, I´d expect their next one to get a slightly smaller rating than the one tomorrow.


----------



## ShadowCounter

yeahright2 said:


> But for a normal Wednesday night show, I´d expect their next one to get a slightly smaller rating than the one tomorrow.


I'd expect the opposite. Most casuals won't really find out the show is back to normal until fellow wrestling friends and twitter tell them by talking about tomorrow's show. Next weeks will be bigger.


----------



## RapShepard

ProjectGargano said:


> I mean, i watch regularly AEW and like NBA aswell.


Who you got in the finals


----------



## ProjectGargano

RapShepard said:


> Who you got in the finals


Bucks will join Suns in the finals, i think. And Giannis will carry them in the finals.


----------



## RapShepard

ProjectGargano said:


> Bucks will join Suns in the finals, i think. And Giannis will carry them in the finals.


Same though I'd have loved the chaos of Suns vs Hawks


----------



## VIP86

at least 649,000 is an increase
the next few weeks are important if they want to recover from the past few weeks

so, Meltzer is wrong when he said the early numbers are down this week
and also was wrong when he inflated the early numbers before

are we sure his "sources" are not Trolling him at this point
or in his quest to be the first to report something he often skips the verification part

either way, not a good look for a journalist


----------



## KingofKings1524

RainmakerV2 said:


> Dude look at a typical AEW crowd and tell me how many people in it you think could name 2 players on the Hawks or Suns lmao.


I’m sure I’m in the minority, but I’ll always watch the NBA playoffs or a good NFL game over whatever wrestling may be on.


----------



## Prosper

RainmakerV2 said:


> Dude look at a typical AEW crowd and tell me how many people in it you think could name 2 players on the Hawks or Suns lmao.


They look like regular people my guy lol if anyone who knew “players on the suns and hawks” was in the crowd they would blend right in if they were on cam


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Eh I'd expect a better ratings than what they got. It's an increase so respect for that, but they could have gotten higher.


----------



## Mister Sinister

These cards are weak p***y cards. The world title needs to change hands, the tag titles need to change hands and no one is tuning in for filler main events with no main event names.


----------



## Chan Hung

Mister Sinister said:


> These cards are weak p***y cards. The world title needs to change hands, the tag titles need to change hands and no one is tuning in for filler main events with no main event names.


I've been saying forever, they should follow the WWE method, dont announce the shit matchups that aren't too competitive, only a match or two that will be a major tune in...LOL
But Wednesday's show does seem better than usual.


----------



## thorn123

I mean I enjoyed the show. Admittedly it has been on a bit of a down swing since moving to Friday’s, but last Saturday’s curtain jerker and main event were quality wrestling. It has still reinvigorated my interest in wrestling and kept my interest over the past two years. Having said that, it is fair to say they are not a success if they don’t get 1 million viewers. Which they won’t. But I think the main reason for that is unrealistic expectations of viewers. Just sit back and enjoy.


----------



## DammitChrist

Honestly, I'll keep my expectations low for this week's episode of Dynamite.

I'll go with them receiving at least 700 K viewers or something like that. I really think TNT screwing with the time slot for the past month will hurt the viewership for tomorrow. It might take them a few weeks of staying on the regular Wednesday time slot in order for us to get a better idea of their average viewership.

Admittedly, their Friday episodes are probably their weakest streak of episodes since the ones last summer before All Out (when there were still no real fans attending at all); although I did really enjoy a couple of those Friday episodes (plus the Saturday episode too).


----------



## bdon

Mr316 said:


> Well, they’re going back to their regular timeslot. There’s no NXT. Anything under 800k should be considered a complete disaster.


Unless the changing time slots fucks things. I would consider myself an AEW diehard, and breaking routine of watching on Wednesday’s has forced me to go back and watch the shows OnDemand or on the TNT app.


----------



## shandcraig

VIP86 said:


> at least 649,000 is an increase
> the next few weeks are important if they want to recover from the past few weeks
> 
> so, Meltzer is wrong when he said the early numbers are down this week
> and also was wrong when he inflated the early numbers before
> 
> are we sure his "sources" are not Trolling him at this point
> or in his quest to be the first to report something he often skips the verification part
> 
> either way, not a good look for a journalist



When will Dave fans understand that half the time what he says it's purely his opinion and not facts. Most of the time when it's facts anyone else can find out that just as easily. Of course he has more ins in the business but its funny people post this guy as some genuine. Anyways not saying this about you lol just in general


Wish I could get paid for my opinions, so I respect him for that!


----------



## 3venflow

Jungle Boy/Kenny match drew 793k viewers on Saturday, way above the average of the show (649k).


Up 37% from the first quarter of the show
Up 105% in 18-34
Up 74% in women 18-49
Up 46% in men 18-49


----------



## ProjectGargano

2831 tickets sold for Road Rager at the moment. They will reach the 3k by the show time.


----------



## Mr316

ProjectGargano said:


> 2871 tickets sold for Road Rager at the moment. They will reach the 3k by the show time.


Horrible number.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Mr316 said:


> Horrible number.


2831, my mistake. Their texas shows are really better with more than 4100 for both shows already sold.


----------



## TD Stinger

I think with the Miami show they ended up removing tickets for the upper deck of the venue because tickets weren't moving that well. Probably a combo of AEW being in Florida for like 1.5 years now and Miami not being a great market.

All of the other upcoming shows from Texas and other places seem to be doing well.


----------



## ProjectGargano

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1410695827069284362
883k! Dead and buried!


----------



## El Hammerstone

Expected rating now that they're back on Wednesday; it will be up one week, down the next, rinse and repeat, the same conversations that have been happening for months will be recycled again and again, while the number continues to hover around the general area it always has. Groundhog Day the thread.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Good recovery.


----------



## 3venflow

As expected, things are already normalising on Wednesday. Very few people were going to watch late on a Friday night. 883k is actually higher than their last Wednesday night Dynamite before all the chopping and changing (821k) and their best number in the 18-49 since the last 1m show on May 5th (Blood & Guts). They were up against NBA and NHL too, right?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Thought they'd be back to a million or more on their first Wednesday back.


----------



## rich110991

I think that’s a great result for their first show back on Wednesdays 

And when they’re back on the road and kicking ass with an electric atmosphere, it’s only going to get better 😍


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Bit below what i predicted (900k)

but 0.35 is in track


----------



## qntntgood

3venflow said:


> As expected, things are already normalising on Wednesday. Very few people were going to watch late on a Friday night. 883k is actually higher than their last Wednesday night Dynamite before all the chopping and changing (821k) and their best number in the 18-49 since the last 1m show on May 5th (Blood & Guts). They were up against NBA and NHL too, right?


Wow,I was expecting a million at least.


----------



## ProjectGargano

qntntgood said:


> Wow,I was expecting a million at least.


If they did 1M you were expecting 1,2M. Obviously you would turn it as something negative.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Time to start addressing the lack of growth. It’s approaching 2 years.


----------



## rich110991

Geert Wilders said:


> Time to start addressing the lack of growth. It’s approaching 2 years.


Yeah not like we’ve had a pandemic or anything


----------



## DaSlacker

It will be 1.5 million next week. JR said it was WWE Dynamite so all the old timers who watch that promotion out of habit will be intrigued by this mystery 4th brand starring Jericho, Ambrose and Christian!


----------



## Geert Wilders

rich110991 said:


> Yeah not like we’ve had a pandemic or anything


Are we using this as an excuse? When they first started they opened with 1.4 million. They were down to 900k before the pandemic started.
And even then. What is your logic around the pandemic? Did all the potential wrestling fans die from COVID? Did TVs not work during it?


----------



## Geert Wilders

And I am not sure about you, but during lockdown i watched even more tv because I could not go anywhere.


----------



## qntntgood

ProjectGargano said:


> If they did 1M you were expecting 1,2M. Obviously you would turn it as something negative.


Why would say 1,2million, when said last night they would hit a million after. being gone from their regular time slot,in over three weeks.this is not a good sign, because they aren't growing.


----------



## Kentucky34

Bad number in my opinion.


----------



## bdon

I genuinely didn’t expect even this much. TV Execs can fuck a show over when they don’t care about it, which I as the case here. TNT does not care about wrestling, not the way USA/NBC. cares about wrestling. And it shows.

You go changing a show’s time slots and things, and that’s how lesser shows get cancelled. Simple as that.

This number isn’t “good”, but it isn’t the “ahhh fuuuuck” number I was expecting after all the changes.


----------



## DammitChrist

That’s a good number 

Yay, I guess there’s no need for a major overhaul after all! 

It was pretty obvious that the awful time slot on Friday nights over the past month was what actually hurt the viewership in June.

I have faith that they’ll continue to grow further later down the line now that they’ll officially be back on the road starting next Wednesday


----------



## Dark Emperor

Pretty decent rating i would say.

No idea why people are expecting 1m+. They will only get that number for specials promoted in advance or post PPV show where something shocking happened like a big debut for a big name.

The chance to get 1m on a weekly basis is long gone after they lost all those viewers from the 1.2m number they got when NXT moved within 2weeks.


----------



## rich110991

Geert Wilders said:


> Are we using this as an excuse? When they first started they opened with 1.4 million. They were down to 900k before the pandemic started.
> And even then. What is your logic around the pandemic? Did all the potential wrestling fans die from COVID? Did TVs not work during it?


So wrestling as a whole hasn’t suffered during the pandemic because of the empty arenas?


----------



## rbl85

Lol people here last week were saying that it was going to take a few weeks to come bacl at what they usually did on Wednesday and now that AEW is basically back at the same level the first week they find a way to hate XD


----------



## rbl85

DammitChrist said:


> That’s a good number
> 
> Yay, I guess there’s no need for a major overhaul after all!
> 
> It was pretty obvious that the awful time slot on Friday nights over the past month was what actually hurt the viewership in June.
> 
> I have faith that they’ll continue to grow further later down the line now that they’ll officially be back on the road starting next Wednesday


Who would have thought that a show at 10pm on friday would hurt the ratings of a show ?

Shocking right ? XD


----------



## rich110991

rbl85 said:


> Lol people here last week were saying that it was going to take a few weeks to come bacl at what they usually did on Wednesday and now that AEW is basically back at the same level the first week they find a way to hate XD


My cousin hates AEW (he won’t even give it a chance) and it’s because he loves WWE and Roman Reigns 😂


----------



## rbl85

Geert Wilders said:


> Time to start addressing the lack of growth. It’s approaching 2 years.


Yeah now it's the lack of growth when 2-3 weeks ago it was "they're losing viewers".....


----------



## Geert Wilders

rich110991 said:


> So wrestling as a whole hasn’t suffered during the pandemic because of the empty arenas?


WWE sucks. That is the reason for their decrease in ratings.

what is AEWs excuse for consistently but inability to grow?


----------



## Geert Wilders

rbl85 said:


> Yeah now it's the lack of growth when 2-3 weeks ago it was "they're losing viewers".....


I was not actually saying this; please do not bunch me in with the haters.

This is the problem with this hater vs fanboy war. Apparently I have to take sides and have the same hive mind.


----------



## DaSlacker

M


rich110991 said:


> My cousin hates AEW (he won’t even give it a chance) and it’s because he loves WWE and Roman Reigns 😂


Must be very young.


----------



## yeahright2

Results are in
AEW Ratings prediction game
@LifeInCattleClass was a bit too optimistic, but he came closest anyway.

It wasn´t a bad number, but the trick now is to keep them -or better yet, grow.


----------



## SPCDRI

There were people who really didn't think the unopposed range for this show on its normal time slot was 650.000-850,000, with a hot show having million viewer potential. They worked themselves into thinking more than a month of day and time slot changes producing poor viewership what the real viewership was. 

LMFAO.


----------



## rbl85

Geert Wilders said:


> I was not actually saying this; please do not bunch me in with the haters.
> 
> This is the problem with this *hater *vs fanboy war. Apparently I have to take sides and have the same hive mind.


Wasn't really aiming at you but since i ignored the majority of them i can't quote them.


----------



## Seafort

Geert Wilders said:


> Are we using this as an excuse? When they first started they opened with 1.4 million. They were down to 900k before the pandemic started.
> And even then. What is your logic around the pandemic? Did all the potential wrestling fans die from COVID? Did TVs not work during it?


A key part of any wrestling promotion - the fans - were removed from the occasion. Fan response completes the experience. It helps to propel wrestlers up or down. The lack of fans has kept AEW, Impact, ROH, and WWE treading water. I'd say it's difficult to impossible to create a boom period in that environment.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Seafort said:


> A key part of any wrestling promotion - the fans - were removed from the occasion. Fan response completes the experience. It helps to propel wrestlers up or down. The lack of fans has kept AEW, Impact, ROH, and WWE treading water. I'd say it's difficult to impossible to create a boom period in that environment.


Will you explain why AEW saw no growth between October 2019 and March 2020? They had fans.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Like all of you, I really wish for AEW to succeed. But we cannot keep giving excuses to their failures.


----------



## 3venflow

Well, in the ratings predictions thread, two predicted above the final rating and 13 predicted under it. So in the eyes of the board at least, they did better than expected.


----------



## rich110991

Geert Wilders said:


> Will you explain why AEW saw no growth between October 2019 and March 2020? They had fans.


Do they have to have some apocalyptic growth within the first 6 months?? Before being basically put on pause for over a year?? I think they are more than happy with the way things have gone and are going. It’s still the beginning whether you like it or not.


----------



## Geert Wilders

rich110991 said:


> Do they have to have some apocalyptic growth within the first 6 months?? Before being basically put on pause for over a year?? I think they are more than happy with the way things have gone and are going. It’s still the beginning whether you like it or not.


Who is asking for "apocalyptic growth"? I would personally be happy with 1 million regular.

Why twist my words?

On paper, AEW have not grown in terms of ratings at all. It is impressive that they have kept their fanbase. I enjoy consistency. However, we must consider that regularity is only half way there. An increase of 100-200k per year is a very good indicator of growth.

The pandemic is not a good enough excuse, when AEW lost viewers before it.

I'll always give AEW benefit of the doubt, but if I do not see growth by this time next year, it hasn't really been successful has it. COVID-19 and the deaths of potential wrestling fans is not an excuse from now on.


----------



## yeahright2

3venflow said:


> Well, in the ratings predictions thread, two predicted above the final rating and 13 predicted under it. So in the eyes of the board at least, they did better than expected.


See. That thread is a way to put a number behind your opinion  I can only encourage more people to participate in the fun


----------



## NathanMayberry

With no more bumps to another night. I can’t wait to see how it unfolds. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rich110991

Geert Wilders said:


> Who is asking for "apocalyptic growth"? I would personally be happy with 1 million regular.
> 
> Why twist my words?
> 
> On paper, AEW have not grown in terms of ratings at all. It is impressive that they have kept their fanbase. I enjoy consistency. However, we must consider that regularity is only half way there. An increase of 100-200k per year is a very good indicator of growth.
> 
> The pandemic is not a good enough excuse, when AEW lost viewers before it.
> 
> I'll always give AEW benefit of the doubt, *but if I do not see growth by this time next year, it hasn't really been successful has it.* COVID-19 and the deaths of potential wrestling fans is not an excuse from now on.


Well that depends... if this time next year RAW is getting 1 million viewers and AEW is still getting 800,000+, the measure of success might look different


----------



## Seafort

Geert Wilders said:


> Will you explain why AEW saw no growth between October 2019 and March 2020? They had fans.


Typical reduction seen from almost any TV pilot. Audience normalized in Jan 2020 and was beginning to grow. They found their sea legs, so to speak, and then the pandemic hit.


----------



## TheGunnShow

There's no NBA next Wednesday and they're returning to touring so anything less than a million be disappointing imo


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Back to a normal rating, that's good. Gotta get a bigger one next week, anything less than this week's number is a failure.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

The death slot is real ..so can we shut up now ? Until they start getting 400k on their normal slot . ..ratings right now will be between 800k-1 mill snd hopefully grows from there


----------



## RainmakerV2

That's decent.


----------



## PavelGaborik

I won't lie, it was significantly higher than I expected. 

I thought it would take a week or toe to get back to 750k, so a nice score here. Death slot is real.


----------



## thorn123

That's great. I was expecting much lower. I never really bought into different nights having an effect, but I was clearly wrong. If the E can keep churning out rubbish maybe some more viewers will tune in to dynamite. I have always felt a million should be the minimum benchmark.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DaveRA said:


> That's great. I was expecting much lower. I never really bought into different nights having an effect, but I was clearly wrong. If the E can keep churning out rubbish maybe some more viewers will tune in to dynamite. I have always felt a million should be the minimum benchmark.


They should be aiming for a million for sure, they've got the talent on the roster they can push that can bring them there, whether or not they start getting a million consistently is the question. I'm not the biggest fan of AEW because I find the booking to be all over the place and not consistent, but I know they can get back up there.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*That's a nice bounce back. Didn't expect it to be that high on the first week, but I'm sure the good show on Saturday was helpful. Next week's card looks underwhelming without Darby's coffin match, so let's see how that does.*


----------



## bdon

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> They should be aiming for a million for sure, they've got the talent on the roster they can push that can bring them there, whether or not they start getting a million consistently is the question. I'm not the biggest fan of AEW because I find the booking to be all over the place and not consistent, but I know they can get back up there.


They just need someone like a Bischoff who fucking understands television.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

But don't you see??? They went up this week! That clearly means they don't have to do anything or change anything!! Clearly things are ok the way they are.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> Results are in
> AEW Ratings prediction game
> *@LifeInCattleClass was a bit too optimistic,* but he came closest anyway.
> 
> It wasn´t a bad number, but the trick now is to keep them -or better yet, grow.


story of my life in one sentence


----------



## bdon

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> But don't you see??? They went up this week! That clearly means they don't have to do anything or change anything!! Clearly things are ok the way they are.


Haha


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> But don't you see??? They went up this week! That clearly means they don't have to do anything or change anything!! Clearly things are ok the way they are.


I'm glad that you finally accept that everything will be okay now


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> I'm glad that you finally accept that everything will be okay now


I've always expected them to be okay, but I won't accept mediocrity from them. I expect a higher standard than what they're putting out currently.


----------



## Danielallen1410

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> I've always expected them to be okay, but I won't accept mediocrity from them. I expect a higher standard than what they're putting out currently.


Don’t watch it then?


----------



## Geert Wilders

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> But don't you see??? They went up this week! That clearly means they don't have to do anything or change anything!! Clearly things are ok the way they are.


Right.

Lack of growth apparently means everything is right with AEW. Some of the potential wrestling fans died of COVID and some TVs had COVID. That explains why they started at 1.4 million and are now averaging about 800-900k. It is an external fault, rather than an internal fault


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Geert Wilders said:


> Right.
> 
> Lack of growth apparently means everything is right with AEW. Some of the potential wrestling fans died of COVID and some TVs had COVID. That explains why they started at 1.4 million and are now averaging about 800-900k. It is an external fault, rather than an internal fault


Exactly it's the whole "As long as I enjoy it that means they don't need to change anything" mentality that a lot of fans have, they're comfortable being given what they're getting rather than striving for the show to improve and gain viewers.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Exactly it's the whole "As long as I enjoy it that means they don't need to change anything" mentality that a lot of fans have, they're comfortable being given what they're getting rather than striving for the show to improve and gain viewers.


'improve' is in the eye of the beholder

if they want to do more viewers, they either have to

1. get more WWE stars, which they keep getting slammed for
2. get celebs to get mainstream attention - which I selfishly don't want

I bet you 100% of the magical ideas we get on this board other than those two, gets 0% extra viewers - no amount of booking changes, or ref rules changes, or less spots will bring more eyes


----------



## Geert Wilders

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 'improve' is in the eye of the beholder
> 
> if they want to do more viewers, they either have to
> 
> 1. get more WWE stars, which they keep getting slammed for
> 2. get celebs to get mainstream attention - which I selfishly don't want
> 
> I bet you 100% of the magical ideas we get on this board other than those two, gets 0% extra viewers - no amount of booking changes, or ref rules changes, or less spots will bring more eyes


You might be right. But they’ve done Tyson and he brought no viewers.
The interest is there. 1.4 million for the pilot episode. We’ve seen peaks at 1.2. How do we get those people to watch every week? 
Above 1.4 is when I would agree with you.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Geert Wilders said:


> You might be right. But they’ve done Tyson and he brought no viewers.
> The interest is there. 1.4 million for the pilot episode. We’ve seen peaks at 1.2. How do we get those people to watch every week?
> Above 1.4 is when I would agree with you.


get more dub dub e guys

and when I talk about celebs - I'm talking about the shock jock youtubers like Ninja, and that Paul whatever guy

sign CM Punk and the Rock and you're there basically

anything other than that? is just opinion really - based on everybodies' likes and dislikes

on the flip side, if you are looking at WWE's numbers, then you have to say 'make AEW more PG' and more 'kid friendly' - that'll get viewers / because it worked for WWE

and I am doubly sure none of us want that


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

LifeInCattleClass said:


> get more dub dub e guys
> 
> and when I talk about celebs - I'm talking about the shock jock youtubers like Ninja, and that Paul whatever guy
> 
> sign CM Punk and the Rock and you're there basically
> 
> anything other than that? is just opinion really - based on everybodies' likes and dislikes
> 
> on the flip side, if you are looking at WWE's numbers, then you have to say 'make AEW more PG' and more 'kid friendly' - that'll get viewers / because it worked for WWE
> 
> and I am doubly sure none of us want that


As much as I hate Punk he'd bring in a big bump in viewers for AEW. If Tony is smart he's saying to Punk "Name your price and you've got it." He's got so much money to spend he'd be silly not to give him whatever he wants.


----------



## Jman55

Here's the thing about the lack of growth point, yes that is something they should be thinking about now and just settling where they are now is not the correct approach.

However they are still moderately successful and mostly stable, which is still an achievement fully worth giving them credit for and by no means is a bad thing.

Nothing wrong with wanting more they should really be trying to get more, but what they are doing currently isn't a failure either in my mind.


----------



## Geert Wilders

LifeInCattleClass said:


> get more dub dub e guys
> 
> and when I talk about celebs - I'm talking about the shock jock youtubers like Ninja, and that Paul whatever guy
> 
> sign CM Punk and the Rock and you're there basically
> 
> anything other than that? is just opinion really - based on everybodies' likes and dislikes
> 
> on the flip side, if you are looking at WWE's numbers, then you have to say 'make AEW more PG' and more 'kid friendly' - that'll get viewers / because it worked for WWE
> 
> and I am doubly sure none of us want that


WWE got good ratings when it was not PG. I believed they did that to become more attractive to investors and advertisers, rather than for fans.

I think it’s less about celebs and more about the product itself. It is too inconsistent. I can’t see they have been doing it too much recently, but needing to follow BTS, DARK, elevation - if you don’t, you can feel a bit lost with Dynamite. It’s still the case with win loss ratios. I’d agree about the “recognisable talent. However, Darby is killing it in terms of ratings. They presented him as a star and so they should be presenting their own homegrown talent as stars.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Geert Wilders said:


> WWE got good ratings when it was not PG. I believed they did that to become more attractive to investors and advertisers, rather than for fans.
> 
> I think it’s less about celebs and more about the product itself. It is too inconsistent. I can’t see they have been doing it too much recently, but needing to follow BTS, DARK, elevation - if you don’t, you can feel a bit lost with Dynamite. It’s still the case with win loss ratios. I’d agree about the “recognisable talent. However, Darby is killing it in terms of ratings. They presented him as a star and so they should be presenting their own homegrown talent as stars.


i think wwe got good ratings when it wasn’t pg - but that was also years and years ago

today we’re really talking about a 60 yr old company doing 1.6m on raw and aew, being 2 years doing 800k

that is 60% of the audience 

imo, that isn’t too bad - and nothing short of a big singing will get them on equal terms

inconsistency etc etc - i just don’t think the average viewer sees that

IMO of course


----------



## Martyn

Seems like Guevara vs MJF did the best quarter of the show. Sounds really good, as both of them are their future.


----------



## Geert Wilders

I


LifeInCattleClass said:


> i think wwe got good ratings when it wasn’t pg - but that was also years and years ago
> 
> today we’re really talking about a 60 yr old company doing 1.6m on raw and aew, being 2 years doing 800k
> 
> that is 60% of the audience
> 
> imo, that isn’t too bad - and nothing short of a big singing will get them on equal terms
> 
> inconsistency etc etc - i just don’t think the average viewer sees that
> 
> IMO of course


i think the comparison of WWE and AEW should not occur anymore.

We cannot compare the success/progression of AEW with the regression of WWE. WWE are losing viewers on their own.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Geert Wilders said:


> I
> 
> i think the comparison of WWE and AEW should not occur anymore.
> 
> We cannot compare the success/progression of AEW with the regression of WWE. WWE are losing viewers on their own.


true - but they are the only major company template we have

looking at AEW on its own - without wwe / but comparing against other tv shows

maybe what they should do is having more drama? I dunno - i rarely watch tv


----------



## Geert Wilders

LifeInCattleClass said:


> true - but they are the only major company template we have
> 
> looking at AEW on its own - without wwe / but comparing against other tv shows
> 
> maybe what they should do is having more drama? I dunno - i rarely watch tv


Not sure, but it’s clear a lot of people are fed up of WWE. Instead of losing them to other shows, AEW should take action now and try their hardest to attract those viewers. The longer they delay their strong and most requested feuds, hit the trigger now. And hit the trigger like a machine gun. Don’t let go of the throttle. Giving us filler matches and feuds will not grow the company.


----------



## RapShepard

Better return number than expected, really good for them that month long absence didn't fuck them over.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> true - but they are the only major company template we have
> 
> looking at AEW on its own - without wwe / but comparing against other tv shows
> 
> maybe what they should do is having more drama? I dunno - i rarely watch tv


Yes more drama is actually a solid answer. Folk thought it belittled Rusev, but the him, Lana, and Lashley stuff had top rated segments because people like drama.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

RapShepard said:


> Better return number than expected, really good for them that month long absence didn't fuck them over.


It says alot about the Wednesday slot how good it is as far as people not having shit to do or shows they'd rather watch. The card wasnt bad but it wasnt star studded great numbers.

Fridays and Saturdays people want to do things the Rampage show imo will have a rough go until they establish it as only main roster talent being on and it being must see.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Not many arguments this week. Just want to see constant improvement. If they maintain over 850 k, that's adequate, but there's no reason this show shouldn't be averaging a mil.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Yes more drama is actually a solid answer. Folk thought it belittled Rusev, but the him, Lana, and Lashley stuff had top rated segments because people like drama.


i can live with more drama


----------



## $Dolladrew$

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i can live with more drama


Buh buh buh but.......they said itd be sport based???

They could definetly crank up the drama meter and add some edgier storylines.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Buh buh buh but.......they said itd be sport based???
> 
> They could definetly crank up the drama meter and add some edgier storylines.


lol - oh, yes….

i’ll take more sports-based drama then?

like…. Leg cramp angles…. And people losing their coaches


----------



## $Dolladrew$

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol - oh, yes….
> 
> i’ll take more sports-based drama then?
> 
> like…. Leg cramp angles…. And people losing their coaches


Exactly that's must see tv


----------



## La Parka

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Buh buh buh but.......they said itd be sport based???
> 
> They could definetly crank up the drama meter and add some edgier storylines.


More kidnapping angles!


----------



## bdon

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> As much as I hate Punk he'd bring in a big bump in viewers for AEW. If Tony is smart he's saying to Punk "Name your price and you've got it." He's got so much money to spend he'd be silly not to give him whatever he wants.


And I would wager that the drop off after Punk’s initial 3-4 episodes would put them right back where they are currently.


----------



## La Parka

bdon said:


> And I would wager that the drop off after Punk’s initial 3-4 episodes would put them right back where they are currently.


Only because they’d probably have Punk go missing for the next two weeks while the dork order or varsity blondes were main eventing the show.


----------



## bdon

La Parka said:


> Only because they’d probably have Punk go missing for the next two weeks while the dork order or varsity blondes were main eventing the show.


He can show up on WWE tomorrow, and they’re not going to create new, long term fans. The industry is dying.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Tickest sold to (yesterday) by WrestleTix:

Miami (07/07): 2915
Cedar Park/Austin (14/07): 4342 (only 94 left to sold out)


----------



## Chan Hung

La Parka said:


> More kidnapping angles!


Baw Gawd Tony, they've stolen Marvez and sent him to an island to get a personality!


----------



## Geeee

This thread is really boring now that NXT is on Tuesday LOL


----------



## 3venflow

MJF vs. Sammy Guevara main event peaked the show with 926,000 viewers and 0.40 (517,000) in 18-49.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> MJF vs. Sammy Guevara main event peaked the show with 926,000 viewers and 0.40 (517,000) in 18-49.


remember… this was the ‘kid with the panda head’ and the ‘miz wannabee’ just two short years ago

main eventing on national tv in a long-spanning storyline


----------



## yeahright2

La Parka said:


> Only because they’d probably have Punk go missing for the next two weeks while the dork order or varsity blondes were main eventing the show.


No. Punk isn´t going to create a lasting increase in viewers on any channel. He would want a part time deal, and those doesn´t increase lasting viewers. Lesnar is a great example of that.


----------



## CovidFan

Punk would be a slight boost to the shows he were on but more importantly, PPVs would probably go up significantly.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Signing new names will not change the ratings because the writing and the booking both will still be the same.

Eric Bischoff is our only hope.


----------



## 3venflow

Fyter Fest Night 1 is sold out. Some very impressive ticket sales besides the Miami show (but that is gonna do 3,000+).

The Charlotte show has already sold 750+ more tickets than when they were there in 2019.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1411104151845675011

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1411112082666307589


----------



## taker_2004

3venflow said:


> Fyter Fest Night 1 is sold out. Some very impressive ticket sales besides the Miami show (but that is gonna do 3,000+).
> 
> The Charlotte show has already sold 750+ more tickets than when they were there in 2019.


I mean this as a genuine question, but isn't ~4500 paid for a PPV/supercard a pretty abysmal number? That's like, 1000 more people than WWE's lowest-ever attended PPV, which was on a Tuesday.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

taker_2004 said:


> I mean this as a genuine question, but isn't ~4500 paid for a PPV/supercard a pretty abysmal number? That's like, 1000 more people than WWE's lowest-ever attended PPV, which was on a Tuesday.


WWEs lowest attended ppv was actually wrestlemania 2020


----------



## rbl85

taker_2004 said:


> I mean this as a genuine question, but isn't ~4500 paid for a PPV/supercard a pretty abysmal number? That's like, 1000 more people than WWE's lowest-ever attended PPV, which was on a Tuesday.



At first it was supposed to be normal shows, when they started to sell tickets it wasn't Road rager or Fyter fest.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> remember… this was the ‘kid with the panda head’ and the ‘miz wannabee’ just two short years ago
> 
> main eventing on national tv in a long-spanning storyline


Saturday’s episode being pretty damn good helps to prop the rating a bit. Just as this week’s episode being really good should do the same for next week. That’s how you create new fans and raise the ratings: consistently providing a compelling product and not taking an “oh well, fuck it” attitude between special shows and PPVs.


----------



## DaSlacker

Just to add my thoughts to recent discussions. 

Bischoff wouldn't do much for AEW apart from clean up their presentation.The business presentation, not the product as that's not his expertise. This would probably include cutting back on the blading and changing the rating to PG to attract more sponsors. And condensing the format for the B and C shows, but that is already happening. 

As for viewership. People need to look at the bigger picture. It's unlikely for AEW to witness much growth in live viewership on cable. Had they started with 2 million, the numbers would have just seen a bigger drop. Wrestling is oversaturated (4 two hour shows per week) and cable is losing out to online competition. The bigger picture is in brand building: social media followers, online content/views, consistent live and DVR audience, new media partners, live entertainment revenue, video game revenue, merchandise licensing. 

To give a lightening strike to the brand would require bringing in what remains of star power in wrestling: Brock, Cena, Punk, Orton, Reigns, Rollins, Lynch. Probably within a 3-4 year period. Highly unlikely, but not impossible. The other option is giving your own talent time to grow and develop their own fanbase. That and a feud or title quest that develops organically or comeback from injury can give big rewards. Takes patience, time and work but you get their in the end. MJF, Starks, Guevara, Allin, Hobbs, Miro, Wardlow, Pillman Jr, Ogogo, Jungle, Fenix, Page, Hangman.... Legitimately cement just a few of those as established stars of the brand within a 5 year period and you've done a lot of the work.


----------



## TD Stinger

taker_2004 said:


> I mean this as a genuine question, but isn't ~4500 paid for a PPV/supercard a pretty abysmal number? That's like, 1000 more people than WWE's lowest-ever attended PPV, which was on a Tuesday.


Well, keep in mind they're not running a usual WWE sized basketball arena or anything like that. The HEB Center capacity after a quick Google search is 8,000. Then take away a good portion of that for the stage, ramp, and ring and you get to 4,500. Now how much would they have sold if they didn't have the giant stage? Who knows. But the point is they sold out the capacity they set up for.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> WWEs lowest attended ppv was actually wrestlemania 2020


OK, put a quarter in the bad joke jar.


----------



## Prosper

DaSlacker said:


> Just to add my thoughts to recent discussions.
> 
> Bischoff wouldn't do much for AEW apart from clean up their presentation.The business presentation, not the product as that's not his expertise. This would probably include cutting back on the blading and changing the rating to PG to attract more sponsors. And condensing the format for the B and C shows, but that is already happening.
> 
> As for viewership. People need to look at the bigger picture. It's unlikely for AEW to witness much growth in live viewership on cable. Had they started with 2 million, the numbers would have just seen a bigger drop. Wrestling is oversaturated (4 two hour shows per week) and cable is losing out to online competition. The bigger picture is in brand building: social media followers, online content/views, consistent live and DVR audience, new media partners, live entertainment revenue, video game revenue, merchandise licensing.
> 
> To give a lightening strike to the brand would require bringing in what remains of star power in wrestling: Brock, Cena, Punk, Orton, Reigns, Rollins, Lynch. Probably within a 3-4 year period. Highly unlikely, but not impossible. The other option is giving your own talent time to grow and develop their own fanbase. That and a feud or title quest that develops organically or comeback from injury can give big rewards. Takes patience, time and work but you get their in the end. MJF, Starks, Guevara, Allin, Hobbs, Miro, Wardlow, Pillman Jr, Ogogo, Jungle, Fenix, Page, Hangman.... Legitimately cement just a few of those as established stars of the brand within a 5 year period and you've done a lot of the work.


Finally someone who gets it.


----------



## RainmakerV2

DaSlacker said:


> Just to add my thoughts to recent discussions.
> 
> Bischoff wouldn't do much for AEW apart from clean up their presentation.The business presentation, not the product as that's not his expertise. This would probably include cutting back on the blading and changing the rating to PG to attract more sponsors. And condensing the format for the B and C shows, but that is already happening.
> 
> As for viewership. People need to look at the bigger picture. It's unlikely for AEW to witness much growth in live viewership on cable. Had they started with 2 million, the numbers would have just seen a bigger drop. Wrestling is oversaturated (4 two hour shows per week) and cable is losing out to online competition. The bigger picture is in brand building: social media followers, online content/views, consistent live and DVR audience, new media partners, live entertainment revenue, video game revenue, merchandise licensing.
> 
> To give a lightening strike to the brand would require bringing in what remains of star power in wrestling: Brock, Cena, Punk, Orton, Reigns, Rollins, Lynch. Probably within a 3-4 year period. Highly unlikely, but not impossible. The other option is giving your own talent time to grow and develop their own fanbase. That and a feud or title quest that develops organically or comeback from injury can give big rewards. Takes patience, time and work but you get their in the end. MJF, Starks, Guevara, Allin, Hobbs, Miro, Wardlow, Pillman Jr, Ogogo, Jungle, Fenix, Page, Hangman.... Legitimately cement just a few of those as established stars of the brand within a 5 year period and you've done a lot of the work.


Vince would never let any of those guys (girl) go. He'd pay whatever it took. They ain't Christian or Andrade.


----------



## Mister Sinister

DaSlacker said:


> Just to add my thoughts to recent discussions.
> 
> Bischoff wouldn't do much for AEW apart from clean up their presentation.The business presentation, not the product as that's not his expertise. This would probably include cutting back on the blading and changing the rating to PG to attract more sponsors. And condensing the format for the B and C shows, but that is already happening.
> 
> As for viewership. People need to look at the bigger picture. It's unlikely for AEW to witness much growth in live viewership on cable. Had they started with 2 million, the numbers would have just seen a bigger drop. Wrestling is oversaturated (4 two hour shows per week) and cable is losing out to online competition. The bigger picture is in brand building: social media followers, online content/views, consistent live and DVR audience, new media partners, live entertainment revenue, video game revenue, merchandise licensing.
> 
> To give a lightening strike to the brand would require bringing in what remains of star power in wrestling: Brock, Cena, Punk, Orton, Reigns, Rollins, Lynch. Probably within a 3-4 year period. Highly unlikely, but not impossible. The other option is giving your own talent time to grow and develop their own fanbase. That and a feud or title quest that develops organically or comeback from injury can give big rewards. Takes patience, time and work but you get their in the end. MJF, Starks, Guevara, Allin, Hobbs, Miro, Wardlow, Pillman Jr, Ogogo, Jungle, Fenix, Page, Hangman.... Legitimately cement just a few of those as established stars of the brand within a 5 year period and you've done a lot of the work.


What I'd expect if Bischoff was given the keys:
-A multitude of releases and new signings, including people that either have been blacklisted (Tessa Blanchard and Austin Aries) or have been staying away because the ship has no captain (Bryan Danielson).
-Shorter matches.
-Several writers would be hired.
-No more ultra violent garbage wrestling.
-The stars would be treated like stars.
-The guys that he chooses to push will be portrayed as strong. They would actually get over because the narrative of their matches would be that they are dangerous.
-Wrestlers would have a narrative to their matches. When you watched a Malenko match on Nitro, he had a narrative. He was the man of a thousand holds. You respected him even though he wasn't going to be heavyweight champion. 
-There would be a cruiser type championship created.


----------



## sim8

Mister Sinister said:


> What I'd expect if Bischoff was given the keys:
> -A multitude of releases and new signings, including people that either have been blacklisted (Tessa Blanchard and Austin Aries) or have been staying away because the ship has no captain (Bryan Danielson).
> -Shorter matches.
> -Several writers would be hired.
> -No more ultra violent garbage wrestling.
> -The stars would be treated like stars.
> -The guys that he chooses to push will be portrayed as strong. They would actually get over because the narrative of their matches would be that they are dangerous.
> -Wrestlers would have a narrative to their matches. When you watched a Malenko match on Nitro, he had a narrative. He was the man of a thousand holds. You respected him even though he wasn't going to be heavyweight champion.
> -There would be a cruiser type championship created.


Do we know Daniel Bryan is staying away because 'the ship has no captain'? Genuinely not heard that. I thought the story was Bryan is seen as WWE for life and will return when ready after playing full time daddy for an extended period. AEW could be absolutely perfect and it still won't get a Daniel Bryan if that's the case.


----------



## mazzah20

La Parka said:


> More kidnapping angles!


Need more angles surrounding the teleporting Ambulance.

How did it get there?
Who made it?
What is it's purpose?
Does it belong to Marvez?
Have Marvez and the Ambulance ever been seen at the same place at once?
Is Marvez himself actually transforming Ambulance?
Does that therfore mean that Shaq has been inside Marvez?

So much potential. And infinity more interesting than any Nightmare family storyline.


----------



## One Shed

mazzah20 said:


> Need more angles surrounding the teleporting Ambulance.
> 
> How did it get there?
> Who made it?
> What is it's purpose?
> Does it belong to Marvez?
> Have Marvez and the Ambulance ever been seen at the same place at once?
> Is Marvez himself actually transforming Ambulance?
> Does that therfore mean that Shaq has been inside Marvez?
> 
> So much potential. And infinity more interesting than any Nightmare family storyline.


If going in that ambulance causes you to teleport off AEW TV, there is a long list I want to go in there.


----------



## 3venflow

Miami sales have picked up a bit more after the full card was announced. Around 3,200 sold now (68% of tickets) and AEW have put the rest of the seats on sale.

Other upcoming show estimates c/o Wrestling Tix updates in recent days mostly (8/11 and 8/13 data is about 5 days old):

7/14 Dynamite: 4,431 sold (100% of tickets)
7/21 Dynamite: 4,311 sold (77% of tickets)
7/28 Dynamite: 4,333 sold (83% of tickets)
8/11 Dynamite: 3,222 sold (58% of tickets)
8/13 Rampage: 3,039 sold (55% of tickets)
9/15 Dynamite: 14,646 sold (91% of tickets) (rescheduled from last year)
9/29 Dynamite: 4,204 sold (81% of tickets)
10/6 Dynamite: 3,409 sold (73% of tickets)
11/5 Rampage: 3,360 sold (69% of tickets) (rescheduled from last year)


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

AEW can easily get a million viewers every week, I just reckon personally they're pushing the wrong people in certain positions. The positions they're pushing Miro and Britt Baker in right now: perfect. They're doing great stuff and both are good champions. Said it many times before, I don't like Kenny as world champion, had they built him up better and kept him away from the Inner Circle halting his momentum, MJF could have been a great world champion right now. Young Bucks, boring, repetitive and not interesting in the slightest. Put the belts on Santana & Ortiz and give them a run.


----------



## thorn123

Every booking decision they make will annoy a portion of the wrestling community. Critics just get more annoyed about booking since we lost kayfabe.

I do think they can get to a million with some adjustments ... but they won’t get much higher unless we see a new hogan, rock or Austin. No one in the wrestling industry has that pull atm.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

3venflow said:


> Miami sales have picked up a bit more after the full card was announced. Around 3,200 sold now (68% of tickets) and AEW have put the rest of the seats on sale.
> 
> Other upcoming show estimates c/o Wrestling Tix updates in recent days mostly (8/11 and 8/13 data is about 5 days old):
> 
> 7/14 Dynamite: 4,431 sold (100% of tickets)
> 7/21 Dynamite: 4,311 sold (77% of tickets)
> 7/28 Dynamite: 4,333 sold (83% of tickets)
> 8/11 Dynamite: 3,222 sold (58% of tickets)
> 8/13 Rampage: 3,039 sold (55% of tickets)
> 9/15 Dynamite: 14,646 sold (91% of tickets) (rescheduled from last year)
> 9/29 Dynamite: 4,204 sold (81% of tickets)
> 10/6 Dynamite: 3,409 sold (73% of tickets)
> 11/5 Rampage: 3,360 sold (69% of tickets) (rescheduled from last year)


Wonder why Miami specifically was seeing slower sales.


----------



## yeahright2

DaveRA said:


> Every booking decision they make will annoy a portion of the wrestling community. Critics just get more annoyed about booking since we lost kayfabe.
> 
> I do think they can get to a million with some adjustments ... but they won’t get much higher unless we see a new hogan, rock or Austin. No one in the wrestling industry has that pull atm.


No single person can get them a substantial increase. There´s no 'I' in 'Team'


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*So much for Kenny elevating Impact. This "partnership" has hurt them more than help them.*


----------



## 3venflow

Yeah, except there was a technical reason for their smaller than usual rating.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1411385725522751494

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1410690643123449866


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> Yeah, except there was a technical reason for their smaller than usual rating.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1411385725522751494
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1410690643123449866


*1. DVR doesn't count as a live view, so that's irrelevant.

2. The Impact Twitter account jumped in front of it hours before the show. *


----------



## 3venflow

@The Legit DMD Nielsen count same-day DVR. Then they later have +3 day and +7 day ratings.

If you believe technical things like IMPACT not appearing in the TV guide properly won't effect a sudden and abnormal drop of this magnitude, well... I have a bridge to sell you.

Note the anomaly. Things like this don't happen naturally.

*May 27 Episode:* 140,000 viewers with a 0.06 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*June 3 Episode:* 143,000 viewers with a 0.04 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*June 10 Episode:* 124,000 viewers with a 0.05 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*June 17 Episode:* 111,000 viewers with a 0.03 rating in the 18-49 demographic (post-Against All Odds episode)
*June 24 Episode:* 111,000 viewers with a 0.03 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*July 1 Episode:* 69,000 viewers with a 0.02 rating in the 18-49 demographic

But yeah, blame Kenny Omega and his one segment in the show, because agendas and all. Meanwhile...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1410562535128854537


----------



## yeahright2

3venflow said:


> @The Legit DMD Nielsen count same-day DVR. Then they later have +3 day and +7 day ratings.
> 
> If you believe technical things like IMPACT not appearing in the TV guide properly won't effect a sudden and abnormal drop of this magnitude, well... I have a bridge to sell you.
> 
> Note the anomalty:
> 
> *May 27 Episode:* 140,000 viewers with a 0.06 rating in the 18-49 demographic
> *June 3 Episode:* 143,000 viewers with a 0.04 rating in the 18-49 demographic
> *June 10 Episode:* 124,000 viewers with a 0.05 rating in the 18-49 demographic
> *June 17 Episode:* 111,000 viewers with a 0.03 rating in the 18-49 demographic (post-Against All Odds episode)
> *June 24 Episode:* 111,000 viewers with a 0.03 rating in the 18-49 demographic
> *July 1 Episode:* 69,000 viewers with a 0.02 rating in the 18-49 demographic
> 
> But yeah, blame Kenny Omega and his one segment in the show, because agendas and all. Meanwhile...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1410562535128854537


Jungle boy is a draw


----------



## 3venflow

yeahright2 said:


> Jungle boy is a draw


The young guns (MJF, Darby, JB) definitely have a trend of doing decent to good ratings.

But also, Kenny and the Bucks usually have a positive impact on ratings in AEW. The Bucks in particular consistently improve them.

It's acts like the Dark Order and anything involving the Factory that lead to quarter hour drops more often.

Trying to blame Kenny for any of IMPACT's woes is ridiculous. He's not on every week and when he is, it's for one segment. He has helped with their brand awareness and PPV sales, it's up to IMPACT to do the rest, ie. create a product that engages new fans. On that front they aren't really doing much. The women's division is overrated by the IWC because it used to be pretty good, but now it's usually bad matches. And besides Josh Alexander, there's nothing new and interesting on the men's side.

And now trying to blame Omega for an anomaly rating which was half of what they often do, when there are clear and undeniable technical reasons for it. Ratings, in the same timeslot, don't just drop like that without a reason and the news sites are already latching on to _why_ it was so low (nothing to do with Kenny Omega).


----------



## yeahright2

3venflow said:


> The young guns (MJF, Darby, JB) definitely have a trend of doing decent to good ratings.
> 
> But also, Kenny and the Bucks usually have a positive impact on ratings in AEW. The Bucks in particular consistently improve them.
> 
> It's acts like the Dark Order and anything involving the Factory that lead to quarter hour drops more often.
> 
> Trying to blame Kenny for any of IMPACT's woes is ridiculous. He's not on every week and when he is, it's for one segment. He has helped with their brand awareness and PPV sales, it's up to IMPACT to do the rest, ie. create a product that engages new fans. On that front they aren't really doing much. The women's division is overrated by the IWC because it used to be pretty good, but now it's usually bad matches. And besides Josh Alexander, there's nothing new and interesting on the men's side.
> 
> And now trying to blame Omega for an anomaly rating which was half of what they often do, when there are clear and undeniable technical reasons for it. Ratings, in the same timeslot, don't just drop like that without a reason and the news sites are already latching on to _why_ it was so low (nothing to do with Kenny Omega).


It´s up to AEW to actually promote the other brand on their shows. They´ve done nothing of the sorts.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*But Kenny drawing the lowest ratings for Impact is an anomaly guys:










Impact Wrestling draws lowest viewership of 2021


espite AEW World Champion Kenny Omega returning on the episode, this week’s Impact Wrestling drew the show’s lowest viewership of the year.




www.f4wonline.com












Impact Wrestling Draws Second Lowest Audience Of 2021 With NFL Draft Competition


Thursday’s post-Rebellion edition of Impact Wrestling, featuring fallout from Sunday’s Rebellion pay-per-view, drew 120,000 viewers on AXS TV, according to Showbuzz Daily. The show drew a 0.05 rating in the key 18-49 demographic. This was the fourth Impact episode to air on Thursday nights. This...




www.wrestlinginc.com




*


----------



## thorn123

yeahright2 said:


> No single person can get them a substantial increase. There´s no 'I' in 'Team'


yeh a person on these guys level could


----------



## DammitChrist

Yea, blaming Kenny Omega for an unusual rating for Impact due to a technical error that's outside of his control gets a huge yikes from me.

Plus, plenty of wrestling fans enjoy watching Jungle Boy too.



The Legit DMD said:


> *But Kenny drawing the lowest ratings for Impact is an anomaly guys:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Impact Wrestling draws lowest viewership of 2021
> 
> 
> espite AEW World Champion Kenny Omega returning on the episode, this week’s Impact Wrestling drew the show’s lowest viewership of the year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.f4wonline.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Impact Wrestling Draws Second Lowest Audience Of 2021 With NFL Draft Competition
> 
> 
> Thursday’s post-Rebellion edition of Impact Wrestling, featuring fallout from Sunday’s Rebellion pay-per-view, drew 120,000 viewers on AXS TV, according to Showbuzz Daily. The show drew a 0.05 rating in the key 18-49 demographic. This was the fourth Impact episode to air on Thursday nights. This...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlinginc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Way to ignore @3venflow 's valid points up above in order to continue twisting your biased narrative about Omega 😂


----------



## DaSlacker

RainmakerV2 said:


> Vince would never let any of those guys (girl) go. He'd pay whatever it took. They ain't Christian or Andrade.


This is true, apart from Punk should he ever return to wrestling. He's the only realistic scenario, unless Reigns or Seth/Becky have a huge bust up with management. 

Still, that's not a bad thing. Lesnar and Cena are 44 and Orton is over 41. Their best days are behind them - both as performers and box office attractions. AEW stands to gain more in the long run by having patience and fully investing in their younger talent who had their first major exposure in 2019.

WCW and TNA made the mistake of chasing after middle aged men in the hope of a quick route to success.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

DaSlacker said:


> This is true, apart from Punk should he ever return to wrestling. He's the only realistic scenario, unless Reigns or Seth/Becky have a huge bust up with management.
> 
> Still, that's not a bad thing. Lesnar and Cena are 44 and Orton is over 41. Their best days are behind them - both as performers and box office attractions. AEW stands to gain more in the long run by having patience and fully investing in their younger talent who had their first major exposure in 2019.
> 
> WCW and TNA made the mistake of chasing after middle aged men in the hope of a quick route to success.


*At least the NWO and Main Event Mafia were all-time great factions. Tony Khan just signs old and washed guys to commentate his C shows.*


----------



## Klitschko

3venflow said:


> Miami sales have picked up a bit more after the full card was announced. Around 3,200 sold now (68% of tickets) and AEW have put the rest of the seats on sale.
> 
> Other upcoming show estimates c/o Wrestling Tix updates in recent days mostly (8/11 and 8/13 data is about 5 days old):
> 
> 7/14 Dynamite: 4,431 sold (100% of tickets)
> 7/21 Dynamite: 4,311 sold (77% of tickets)
> 7/28 Dynamite: 4,333 sold (83% of tickets)
> 8/11 Dynamite: 3,222 sold (58% of tickets)
> 8/13 Rampage: 3,039 sold (55% of tickets)
> 9/15 Dynamite: 14,646 sold (91% of tickets) (rescheduled from last year)
> 9/29 Dynamite: 4,204 sold (81% of tickets)
> 10/6 Dynamite: 3,409 sold (73% of tickets)
> 11/5 Rampage: 3,360 sold (69% of tickets) (rescheduled from last year)


Those are really good numbers in my opinion. They will all grow even more by the show date. Is there something special happening with that 9/15 Dynamite that sold 14k tickets?


----------



## ProjectGargano

Klitschko said:


> Those are really good numbers in my opinion. They will all grow even more by the show date. Is there something special happening with that 9/15 Dynamite that sold 14k tickets?


Is Newark and it should have been Blood&Guts when the people bought it.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Raw did a 0.41 and Dynamite a 0.35. I’d say for sure by fall Dynamite will be beating Raw in demo’s.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

yeahright2 said:


> No single person can get them a substantial increase. There´s no 'I' in 'Team'


Yeah I agree with this, it's like a terrible sports team signing a big star player, yeah you've got your big star but if everything around him is shit then how much can he really standout?



Randy Lahey said:


> Raw did a 0.41 and Dynamite a 0.35. I’d say for sure by fall Dynamite will be beating Raw in demo’s.


Demo doesn't really matter though, lets focus on overall viewership.


----------



## DammitChrist

Demographic numbers are important too


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> Demographic numbers are important too


We've been through this, pro wrestling is unattractive to sponsors and advertisers therefore the demographic means considerably less compared to something without that stigma.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Is the 14,000 that stadium show? If so, that's great.*


----------



## DammitChrist

Chip Chipperson said:


> We've been through this, pro wrestling is unattractive to sponsors and advertisers therefore the demographic means considerably less compared to something without that stigma.


Nah, it's not necessarily something you should ignore just because you don't find it to be important.

The demographic numbers will always be discussed on here as long as they continue to be revealed.


----------



## TheGunnShow

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, it's not necessarily something you should ignore just because you don't find it to be important.
> 
> The demographic numbers will always be discussed on here as long as they continue to be revealed.


Do you have any proof on them being important?


----------



## DammitChrist

TheGunnShow said:


> Do you have any proof on them being important?


I wasn't talking to you, @machomanjohncena.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, it's not necessarily something you should ignore just because you don't find it to be important.
> 
> The demographic numbers will always be discussed on here as long as they continue to be revealed.


I don't find it important but nobody did until AEW's creation. It's an easy W for the AEW fans each week but that doesn't change the fact that nobody wants to sponsor or pay for advertising on the network strictly because of AEW's strong demo.


----------



## 3venflow

From the horse's mouth.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281324955725107200
Also a relevant article from Brandon Thurston, where he talks about how WWE got better TV deals despite falling viewerships because of their demos, which sees them top cable ratings in that department.









Key demo and total audience: What are they and how much do they matter? - Wrestlenomics


The metrics we’ve followed throughout the last few decades of wrestling television history have changed. In the “Monday Night War” era, amid the competition ultimately won by WWF …




wrestlenomics.com


----------



## NathanMayberry

3venflow said:


> From the horse's mouth.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281324955725107200
> Also a relevant article from Brandon Thurston, where he talks about how WWE got better TV deals despite falling viewerships because of their demos, which sees them top cable ratings in that department.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Key demo and total audience: What are they and how much do they matter? - Wrestlenomics
> 
> 
> The metrics we’ve followed throughout the last few decades of wrestling television history have changed. In the “Monday Night War” era, amid the competition ultimately won by WWF …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wrestlenomics.com



If the demo mattered as much as the people here think it does, AEW wouldn't be moving to TBS for a sport that gets much lower demo numbers and will be on half as much during the year.


----------



## 3venflow

NathanMayberry said:


> If the demo mattered as much as the people here think it does, AEW wouldn't be moving to TBS for a sport that gets much lower demo numbers and will be on half as much during the year.


Just because they're less valuable than mainstream U.S. sports, doesn't mean their demo is irrelevant. There's a pecking order in every industry and pro wrestling is underneath live sport - as it has always been. But many other things, like your bog standard cable show, is underneath pro wrestling. It's not black and white, pro wrestling's demo is able to have value even if it's not as valuable as live sports'.

I mean, using common sense, why has WWE been able to negotiate higher TV rights packages despite total viewership crumbling? Because they still top the charts in the key demographic most weeks. And AEW also fares well in that department.


----------



## RapShepard

Randy Lahey said:


> Raw did a 0.41 and Dynamite a 0.35. I’d say for sure by fall Dynamite will be beating Raw in demo’s.


Bet a virtual hundo they won't beat them once in normal time slots let alone consistently


----------



## Dark Emperor

Chip Chipperson said:


> We've been through this, pro wrestling is unattractive to sponsors and advertisers therefore the demographic means considerably less compared to something without that stigma.


Even after AEW was kicked off TNT despite doing over double the demo of what their replacement NHL does, AEW fans are still hanging their hats on the importance of the demo .


----------



## 3venflow

Dark Emperor said:


> Even after AEW was kicked off TNT despite doing over double the demo of what their replacement NHL does, AEW fans are still hanging their hats on the importance of the demo .


Why must people have such simplified views of these things?

NBA, NHL, NFL will always be more important than pro wrestling so take prime slots.

So rather than shift pro wrestling into a less desirable timeslot regularly, they move it to a sister channel in the same primetime slot. They do value AEW or else they could have just put it on at 1am or whenever, rather than give it the same primetime timeslot on a similar channel.

I've seen big budget movies pushed back because an even bigger budget movie was coming out around the same time. Ditto with video games. It doesn't mean they are unimportant, only that they know they're less appealing and lower down the pecking order.

Tony Khan himself has said the demo drives AEW's revenues. There are countless articles out there, including one I linked, that shows the importance of the 'key demo' today as compared to 20 years ago.

And again, WWE's TV ratings (total viewership) have been on a continuous, near relentless slide for years. And yet they managed to negotiate IMPROVED deals... because of their performances in the 18-49 demographic.

Just like AEW will probably get more money next time around for the same reason. And why Warner greenlit a second show.

Let me put it simply.

NHL/NBA 18-49 demo may be a five star demo.
Pro wrestling's 18-49 demo may be a three-and-a-half star demo.

It doesn't mean pro wrestling's is worthless, only that it's less important. It still has value and is still very relevant, as proven by WWE and AEW's TV rights packages.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Randy Lahey said:


> Raw did a 0.41 and Dynamite a 0.35. I’d say for sure by fall Dynamite will be beating Raw in demo’s.



Let's see how they both do with big live shows coming back first before we say that. The Thunderdome is beyond stale and sleep inducing. I don't see how anyone can sit through 3 hours of a wrestling show in it.


----------



## fabi1982

3venflow said:


> Tony Khan himself has said the demo drives AEW's revenues. There are countless articles out there, including one I linked, that shows the importance of the 'key demo' today as compared to 20 years ago.


Tony Khan himself lied so often on Twitter, why would anyone believe his comment? Not so long ago he said „we will stay on Wednesday despite NHL coming“. So…


----------



## .christopher.

The demo talk is meaningless.

Curse AEW and Meltzer for convincing the sheep that it actually matters when it comes to wrestling because the actual ratings they got were terrible.


----------



## DammitChrist

3venflow said:


> Why must people have such simplified views of these things?
> 
> NBA, NHL, NFL will always be more important than pro wrestling so take prime slots.
> 
> So rather than shift pro wrestling into a less desirable timeslot regularly, they move it to a sister channel in the same primetime slot. They do value AEW or else they could have just put it on at 1am or whenever, rather than give it the same primetime timeslot on a similar channel.
> 
> I've seen big budget movies pushed back because an even bigger budget movie was coming out around the same time. Ditto with video games. It doesn't mean they are unimportant, only that they know they're less appealing and lower down the pecking order.
> 
> Tony Khan himself has said the demo drives AEW's revenues. There are countless articles out there, including one I linked, that shows the importance of the 'key demo' today as compared to 20 years ago.
> 
> And again, WWE's TV ratings (total viewership) have been on a continuous, near relentless slide for years. And yet they managed to negotiate IMPROVED deals... because of their performances in the 18-49 demographic.
> 
> Just like AEW will probably get more money next time around for the same reason. And why Warner greenlit a second show.
> 
> Let me put it simply.
> 
> NHL/NBA 18-49 demo may be a five star demo.
> Pro wrestling's 18-49 demo may be a three-and-a-half star demo.
> 
> It doesn't mean pro wrestling's is worthless, only that it's less important. It still has value and is still very relevant, as proven by WWE and AEW's TV rights packages.


Yep, it's best to say that you also single-handedly ended the debate here proving how the demographic numbers are still important no matter what anyone else says 

The demographic numbers will always be discussed on here going forward as long as those statistics continue to get updated.



.christopher. said:


> The demo talk is meaningless.
> 
> Curse AEW and Meltzer for convincing the sheep that it actually matters when it comes to wrestling because the actual ratings they got were terrible.


The "sheep" aren't the genuine wrestling fans who enjoy the shows, and their ratings aren't "terrible."


----------



## Shock Street

DammitChrist said:


> Yep, it's best to say that you also single-handedly ended the debate here proving how the demographic numbers are still important no matter what anyone else says


Well its a good thing you aren't in charge of what people talk about and that we will continue to discuss and debate it *as much as we want, whenever we want (ignoring being banned, obviously). *

You are easily the worst poster on this site. By a significant margin. Thank god you aren't a mod or this forum would be fucking dead. DEAD. Stop telling people to be quiet, it makes you look like a controlling asshole at best and a tiny little bitch who can't accept any negativity whatsoever at worst.


----------



## DammitChrist

Shock Street said:


> Well its a good thing you aren't in charge of what people talk about and that we will continue to discuss and debate it *as much as we want, whenever we want. *


Except that I wasn't controlling what people on here should discuss on this thread. I was just pointing out that some folks shouldn't prevent other people from wanting to talk about the demographic numbers simply because they don't find it to be "important" (even though it's a relevant topic on here).




> *You are easily the worst poster on this site. By a significant margin.* Thank god you aren't a mod or this forum would be fucking dead. DEAD


Oh, believe me, THANK GOD that your irrelevant opinion regarding who's the "worst poster on here" (even though there's a whole bunch who's actually light years worse) means very little to me. If anything, I'd probably help keep the section stay highly active if I was somehow in charge; but that's completely off-topic 😂

You're wrong about the section being "dead" because of me since I'm not even THAT active on here.



> Stop telling people to be quiet,


Except that I wasn't "telling people to be quiet." Work on your reading comprehension skills instead of lashing out to me for no good reason at all.



> it makes you look like an asshole at best and a tiny little bitch who can't accept any negativity whatsoever at worst.


Dude, you're the one who just randomly threw a temper tantrum (just because I stated that the demographic numbers shouldn't be ignored on this thread) by flaming me, and you're the one who just derailed the discussion.

You're the last one on here atm who gets to talk about who's in the bad.

Oh, for the record, I see that you're one of those who underestimate me for tolerating and accepting negativity 😂

Anyway, I'm sorry about that interruption, @3venflow


----------



## 3venflow

fabi1982 said:


> Tony Khan himself lied so often on Twitter, why would anyone believe his comment? Not so long ago he said „we will stay on Wednesday despite NHL coming“. So…


So... even if you don't believe Tony Khan, there is all the other evidence. Such as huge TV deals despite total viewerships falling but because of performances in the 18-49.

Here's what good ol' JR said, is he a liar too?

“That’s what the advertisers are buying. They’re not looking at the total audience, they’re not looking at 50+ [demographic] unless you’re selling Geritol or something… The 18-49 [demographic] is the money that’s where you’re shopping.”


----------



## Shock Street

DammitChrist said:


> Except that I wasn't "telling people to be quiet." Work on your reading comprehension skills instead of lashing out to me for no good reason at all.


No shit you didn't literaly say "be quiet", but you make these daily posts telling people that discussions or debates are over which is the exact same thing. You're not in charge. Just because you tell us all to shut the fuck up politely doesn't mean you're not doing it. I cannot wait for the day that the mods figure out you're a massive troll and finally remove you.


----------



## DammitChrist

Shock Street said:


> No shit you didn't literaly say "be quiet", but you make these daily posts telling people that discussions or debates are over which is the exact same thing. You're not in charge. Just because you tell us all to shut the fuck up politely doesn't mean you're not doing it. I cannot wait for the day that the mods figure out you're a massive troll and finally remove you.


Where in the heck did I even tell you to "shut the fuck up?" 😂

Me saying that the debate is pretty much over due to the valuable comment of one poster is no different to folks on a different thread saying "end-thread or /thread" once they see someone make a great and informative post on there.

Quit trying to derail the discussion by being incredibly hostile by *falsely* labeling me to be a "troll" when that term *DOES NOT *describe me at all (and for threatening me via removal too).

Seriously, can you just admit that you'd like to ignore the demographic numbers, so we can finally move on from this topic regarding your flaming?


----------



## Shock Street

DammitChrist said:


> Where in the hell did I even tell you to "shut the fuck up?" 😂
> 
> Me saying that the debate is pretty much over due to the valuable comment of one poster is no different to folks on a different thread saying "end-thread or /thread" once they see someone make a great and informative post on there.
> 
> Quit trying to derail the discussion by being incredibly hostile by *falsely* labeling me to be a "troll" when that term *DOES NOT *describe me at all (and for threatening me via removal too).


I can't threaten you with anything because I'm not a mod, you absolute weiner


----------



## fabi1982

3venflow said:


> So... even if you don't believe Tony Khan, there is all the other evidence. Such as huge TV deals despite total viewerships falling but because of performances in the 18-49.
> 
> Here's what good ol' JR said, is he a liar too?
> 
> “That’s what the advertisers are buying. They’re not looking at the total audience, they’re not looking at 50+ [demographic] unless you’re selling Geritol or something… The 18-49 [demographic] is the money that’s where you’re shopping.”


WWE gets these deals because of their brand value and legacy. See the peacock deal, they bought the library, content. Thats the currency. Or why do you think AEW is producing like 20h of content a week?

And it is so funny about the JR comment, when you see that the median age for AEW is 47?! Thats the number floating couple days ago. So please stop talking about key demo, when in two years time the median age is even out of the key demo range.

To sum this up, you can bring as many comments from people owning/working for AEW, but the facts are facts and AEW got degraded for the least important sport in the US out of the 4 big ones.


----------



## 3venflow

fabi1982 said:


> WWE gets these deals because of their brand value and legacy. See the peacock deal, they bought the library, content.


The Peacock deal has no relevance to their weekly TV deals. Those deals are for the here-and-now content, not legacy content and PPVs.

WWE's impressive TV rights deals are based on ratings and ratings alone. FOX doesn't care that Hogan vs. Andre happened years and years ago, because they don't own the library and it has zero impact on this week or next week's ratings. You see these ruthless networks cut popular shows all the time if they aren't performing to standards, and that has been the case for years.

WWE got improved TV rights because it still had a steady 18-49 audience, which is what the networks continue to chase even though older people watch more live TV now than younger.

AEW also has a fine 18-49 audience which, in their normal timeslot, usually gets them in the top 10 on cable and not so long ago saw them hit number one for the first time.

There's a reason Nielsen and others rank ratings by the 18-49.



> And it is so funny about the JR comment, when you see that the median age for AEW is 47?! Thats the number floating couple days ago. So please stop talking about key demo, when in two years time the median age is even out of the key demo range.


This has zero relevance to the point being made. As long as they fare well in the 18-49, they can have however many old people watching, but they are not the coveted audience among advertisers. As long as WWE and AEW does well in the 18-49, they have value.

If you really think networks like TNT judge ratings on total viewership in the age of DVR, streaming and being able to watch the best bits on social media, well, you're wrong. 52-week products like AEW Dynamite are valuable properties for them, even if not as valuable as the historic brands like NBA, NHL or NFL. That's why Warner want _more_ rather than _less_ content from AEW.



> To sum this up, you can bring as many comments from people owning/working for AEW, but the facts are facts and AEW got degraded for the least important sport in the US out of the 4 big ones.


Once again, live sports have always taken precedence. WCW Nitro got preempted for NBA during the nWo era. RAW got preempted for the damn dog show in its most popular era.

I'll say it one last time - just because live sports are more valuable than pro wrestling, doesn't mean pro wrestling is without value. If pro wrestling had no value, it would not occupy the primetime slots so much.

The 18-49 demographic is important and everything, EVERYTHING, points to that. There's a reason why it is called the 'key demo' and 'coveted demo' industry-wide and it's not for shits and giggles. Networks are desperate to attract this age group even though it's an uphill struggle these days.









TV Ratings and What They Mean - Central Casting


How do networks decide what shows to keep and what to cancel? Here’s what you need to know about TV ratings and how they’re used.




www.centralcasting.com













Fox Repeats Season Win in 18-49; CBS No. 1 in Total Viewers


Sunday Night Football, The Masked Singer, This Is Us among top shows.




www.adweek.com









__





Broadcast TV Final Season Rankings 18-49 Demographic | National Media Spots


National Media Spots is your one-stop shop for all your media advertising needs. Instant access to tv, radio, digital, and mobile advertising rates cards, free consultations!




www.nationalmediaspots.com


----------



## RainmakerV2

3venflow said:


> So... even if you don't believe Tony Khan, there is all the other evidence. Such as huge TV deals despite total viewerships falling but because of performances in the 18-49.
> 
> Here's what good ol' JR said, is he a liar too?
> 
> “That’s what the advertisers are buying. They’re not looking at the total audience, they’re not looking at 50+ [demographic] unless you’re selling Geritol or something… The 18-49 [demographic] is the money that’s where you’re shopping.”



But not the "wrestling" 18-49 demo. The stigma that comes from the way advertisers look at "wrestling fans" is a very real thing. You willfully ignore it because it makes Tony Khan look better.


----------



## 3venflow

RainmakerV2 said:


> But not the "wrestling" 18-49 demo. The stigma that comes from the way advertisers look at "wrestling fans" is a very real thing. You willfully ignore it because it makes Tony Khan look better.


I've referred to the pecking order constantly. Wrestling is not at the top, nor is it at the bottom.

I've no interest in making Tony Khan look good or bad unlike some on here who have planted their flag and won't budge one bit.

One more time: WWE has negotiated record deals with networks while their total viewership has slid. The reason for this is their performances in the 18-49 rating, which usually ranks them top of the cable and network charts. That is the "wrestling" 18-49 demo you just mentioned and made sound irrelevant. A category which AEW also performs well in.

Two stories from Forbes, one of the biggest and most respected resources in the world.

WWE tops cable ratings (in the 18-49, viewed as the default)









WWE Raw Viewership Tops Cable Ratings For World Title Change


WWE Raw topped the night in the 18-49 demo for Bobby Lashley's big world title win.




www.forbes.com





AEW wins the night [in ratings] (again, in the 18-49 which is presented as the default standard in the headline... but according to some on here means nothing)









AEW Blood And Guts Ratings: AEW Wins The Night With Over 1 Million Viewers For Polarizing Match


AEW drew 1.09 million for a polarizing Blood and Guts TV special.




www.forbes.com


----------



## fabi1982

3venflow said:


> The Peacock deal has no relevance to their weekly TV deals. Those deals are for the here-and-now content, not legacy content and PPVs.
> 
> WWE's impressive TV rights deals are based on ratings and ratings alone. FOX doesn't care that Hogan vs. Andre happened years and years ago, because they don't own the library and it has zero impact on this week or next week's ratings. You see these ruthless networks cut popular shows all the time if they aren't performing to standards, and that has been the case for years.
> 
> WWE got improved TV rights because it still had a steady 18-49 audience, which is what the networks continue to chase even though older people watch more live TV now than younger.
> 
> AEW also has a fine 18-49 audience which, in their normal timeslot, usually gets them in the top 10 on cable and not so long ago saw them hit number one for the first time.
> 
> There's a reason Nielsen and others rank ratings by the 18-49.
> 
> 
> 
> This has zero relevance to the point being made. As long as they fare well in the 18-49, they can have however many old people watching, but they are not the coveted audience among advertisers. As long as WWE and AEW does well in the 18-49, they have value.
> 
> If you really think networks like TNT judge ratings on total viewership in the age of DVR, streaming and being able to watch the best bits on social media, well, you're wrong. 52-week products like AEW Dynamite are valuable properties for them, even if not as valuable as the historic brands like NBA, NHL or NFL. That's why Warner want _more_ rather than _less_ content from AEW.
> 
> 
> 
> Once again, live sports have always taken precedence. WCW Nitro got preempted for NBA during the nWo era. RAW got preempted for the damn dog show in its most popular era.
> 
> I'll say it one last time - just because live sports are more valuable than pro wrestling, doesn't mean pro wrestling is without value. If pro wrestling had no value, it would not occupy the primetime slots so much.
> 
> The 18-49 demographic is important and everything, EVERYTHING, points to that. There's a reason why it is called the 'key demo' and 'coveted demo' industry-wide and it's not for shits and giggles. Networks are desperate to attract this age group even though it's an uphill struggle these days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TV Ratings and What They Mean - Central Casting
> 
> 
> How do networks decide what shows to keep and what to cancel? Here’s what you need to know about TV ratings and how they’re used.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.centralcasting.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fox Repeats Season Win in 18-49; CBS No. 1 in Total Viewers
> 
> 
> Sunday Night Football, The Masked Singer, This Is Us among top shows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.adweek.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Broadcast TV Final Season Rankings 18-49 Demographic | National Media Spots
> 
> 
> National Media Spots is your one-stop shop for all your media advertising needs. Instant access to tv, radio, digital, and mobile advertising rates cards, free consultations!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nationalmediaspots.com


So based on your very thin evidence AEW will get the billion dollar deal, because as some say they will break RAWs demo by end of the year.

Basically all things point to TNT doesnt care about AEW. They have to produce more content for a lesser overall margin because as it seems they will produce the rampage stuff live. The main show gets the TNT boot. So post all the links you want, this is the pure facts despite the discussion if key demo is more valuable than overall viewership.


----------



## fabi1982

3venflow said:


> I've referred to the pecking order constantly. Wrestling is not at the top, nor is it at the bottom.
> 
> I've no interest in making Tony Khan look good or bad unlike some on here who have planted their flag and won't budge one bit.
> 
> One more time: WWE has negotiated record deals with networks while their total viewership has slid. The reason for this is their performances in the 18-49 rating, which usually ranks them top of the cable and network charts. That is the "wrestling" 18-49 demo you just mentioned and made sound irrelevant. A category which AEW also performs well in.
> 
> Two stories from Forbes, one of the biggest and most respected resources in the world.
> 
> WWE tops cable ratings (in the 18-49, viewed as the default)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WWE Raw Viewership Tops Cable Ratings For World Title Change
> 
> 
> WWE Raw topped the night in the 18-49 demo for Bobby Lashley's big world title win.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW wins the night [in ratings] (again, in the 18-49 which is presented as the default standard in the headline... but according to some on here means nothing)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW Blood And Guts Ratings: AEW Wins The Night With Over 1 Million Viewers For Polarizing Match
> 
> 
> AEW drew 1.09 million for a polarizing Blood and Guts TV special.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com


You know this is not forbes content but guest articels?! Thats like saying „hey Im working in the white house“, when at the end you are just the janitor getting in whenever someone puked in the hallway.

Again thats the stuff why people always argue with „you fans“ because you reach as far as you can to prove a point that cant be proven properly.

I like your usual posts and the infos on ticket sales, but sometimes you just go too far to proof to yourself that AEW is not in trouble.


----------



## 3venflow

> So based on your very thin evidence AEW will get the billion dollar deal, because as some say they will break RAWs demo by end of the year.


'Very thin evidence' like WWE getting record TV deals while their total viewership is in a yearly decline... but while they rank top or near the top in the 18-49. Yeah, thin evidence.

No, AEW will not get a billion dollar deal. But it'll get another healthy deal that sustains it, just like the current one. Based on their consistent performances in the 18-49, I think they may get more money next time around for Dynamite, and obviously Rampage will already be bringing in some extra coin, though how much I don't know. Warner is getting a bargain right now, even some of the most ardent haters of the company have admitted that. $45m a year for the consistency AEW has shown is a great deal, no surprise since the initial expectations were lower than AEW delivered.

AEW is not as valuable as WWE but it also operates on a smaller budget with smaller production costs and smaller expectations. In that sense, it overperforms in the 18-49 by getting as near to RAW as it does and that's something the Khans will bring up at the next renewal meeting if the situation is still the same then.



> Basically all things point to TNT doesnt care about AEW.


No, it points to the opposite. And it's not TNT, it's Warner who make these calls. TNT is one of Warner's channels, just like TBS and HBO Max (where I think AEW will end up when streaming finally devours cable some years from now).

Since they have NHL for Wednesday night, they could have moved Dynamite to say 10pm.

But that would be wasting the value of Dynamite when they know it can do 800k~1m and 0.30~0.42 in the 18-49, which makes them one of the top shows on cable. So Warner instead shifted it to TBS, a slightly less prestigious channel but a slightly more watched channel rather than TNT. Also a channel with a great pro wrestling history.

You're arguing that Warner (you said TNT, but it's all Warner) doesn't care about AEW... yet has it in a PRIMETIME slot on its networks. Where is the common sense there?

Not caring about AEW would be like throwing it on TruTV or worse, cancelling it.

On the contrary, here is their official press release headline on the move.

*AEW Franchise Continues Domination and Expands to TBS in 2022*





__





AEW Franchise Continues Domination and Expands to TBS in 2022 | Pressroom







pressroom.warnermedia.com





Just as you branded Tony Khan and Jim Ross liars, I predict you'll say that is 'just spin'. Because everyone is lying apparently and it's all a cover-up.



> So post all the links you want, this is the pure facts despite the discussion if key demo is more valuable than overall viewership.


"I'm not reading that, nothing is making me budge from my view and everyone who says otherwise is a liar or wrong, even if it comes from industry websites or the mouth of someone in power."



> You know this is not forbes content but guest articels?!


They're written by Alfred Konuwa who worked for Bleacher Report and now works for Forbes Sports. You make it sound like some Wordpress blog where anyone can send their stuff in.



> Again thats the stuff why people always argue with „you fans“ because you reach as far as you can to prove a point that cant be proven properly.


"You fans"? You mean, people who have the audacity to enjoy AEW or pro wrestling otherwise? I enjoy a lot of AEW, NJPW, ROH, MLW and even a bit of WWE. I guess due to that, it makes me somehow lesser than those of you who just hate, complain and criticise every week.

I'm not reaching and have the ability to call a spade a spade when necessary. I've criticised far more in AEW than some of you guys have praised. I like to look at data and trends and form a judgment on them. If you notice, I've spoken at length about how well WWE is doing in negotiating these deals.

Pro wrestling is a valuable commodity, even though the business on the surface seems in the gutter because it is less popular than it was 20 years ago. But with the TV industry changing, the stability and consistency of pro wrestling is appealing to these channels who are trying to cling on to as many younger viewers as they can.



> but sometimes you just go too far to proof to yourself that AEW is not in trouble.


Because it's not in trouble. How is it in trouble? It is financially stable (and even if it wasn't, the owner is ridiculously rich), has a fixed TV deal and will get another one, has been doing well on PPV, and is selling lots of tickets for live events. YOU thinking the weekly show blows doesn't equal the company being a failure.

It's more a case of you, and several others, not liking AEW and projecting that dislike too much. AEW is in a healthy position and seems to have laid the foundation for the future. It's moving at a much faster pace than TNA did and has already beaten TNA's biggest ever attendance (8,100) several times and will do again in the coming months with the NYC, Newark and probably Chicago shows.


----------



## Prosper

It's so frustrating reading through these conversations sometimes. @3venflow is 100% accurate.

The guy is giving evidence, articles, and thoughtful analysis and you people still refuse to re-consider your hollow arguments or even consider what's being explained so clearly.

It's honestly childish af. Some are so hellbent on their perceptions of AEW supposedly failing when all the evidence points to the contrary.


----------



## ProjectGargano

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1412194312717312000
3541 tickets sold to Wednesday. A good number of tickets sold this week.


----------



## Randy Lahey

TBS has more viewers than TNT. So of course they want to put their best content on the channels that can reach the most viewers. 

Moving off TNT is a promotion for AEW, not a demotion. 

And demo is the only thing that matters when setting ad rates and renewing cable deals. It determined what shows are picked up and which are cancelled.

If only viewership numbers mattered, then no channel would even be putting on wrestling. All of them would be news channels


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Randy Lahey said:


> TBS has more viewers than TNT. So of course they want to put their best content on the channels that can reach the most viewers.
> 
> Moving off TNT is a promotion for AEW, not a demotion.


*I haven't watched TBS since like 2003 and can't even think of a popular show on the channel. You're going to need data to back that up. Everything important has been on TNT for decades.*


----------



## 3venflow

ProjectGargano said:


> 3541 tickets sold to Wednesday. A good number of tickets sold this week.


This is good because Miami was the one show that wasn't moving quickly, but now it looks like it'll have a healthy crowd for TV. Still a fair few on the upper tier, but they're easy to hide on TV. They should hand some out to schools to add a few more and try and get some new fans (if they haven't already).

A lot of people on Twitter say Miami is a tough sell. To be honest, 3,500+ is going to look great on TV after a year-plus of few fans minus DoN (and what a difference it made).



The Legit DMD said:


> I haven't watched TBS since like 2003 and can't even think of a popular show on the channel. You're going to need data to back that up. Everything important has been on TNT for decades.


TBS does have more viewers (per the 2020 stats) but there isn't a huge amount between them. TNT fares slightly better in the 18-49.


----------



## One Shed

Claiming that being moved to the comedy channel from the sports and drama channel was a PROMOTION is the worst take I have read in here and there have been many bad ones. You can say AEW's ratings, while not amazing, are in the range Turner likes to see and that is fine, but getting moved off the channel you were building you brand on, especially to a lesser regarded network, is clearly not a reward.


----------



## shandcraig

this weeks venue is a really cool choice and should look nice on tv. 

i still think in a few years time aew will be on hbo max. for sure hbo max is going to start having live events.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Two Sheds said:


> Claiming that being moved to the comedy channel from the sports and drama channel was a PROMOTION is the worst take I have read in here and there have been many bad ones. You can say AEW's ratings, while not amazing, are in the range Turner likes to see and that is fine, but getting moved off the channel you were building you brand on, especially to a lesser regarded network, is clearly not a reward.


TBS isn’t a lesser regarded network. In fact, it’s the pioneer of cable superstations. TBS was the home of WCW, the Atlanta Braves, and etc. Along with WGN, USA, Nickelodeon - it was a core cable station,

TNT came years after. Moving to a station that more people watch isn’t a demotion. In fact, they’ll do higher ratings on TBS.


----------



## One Shed

Randy Lahey said:


> TBS isn’t a lesser regarded network. In fact, it’s the pioneer of cable superstations. TBS was the home of WCW, the Atlanta Braves, and etc. Along with WGN, USA, Nickelodeon - it was a core cable station,
> 
> TNT came years after. Moving to a station that more people watch isn’t a demotion. In fact, they’ll do higher ratings on TBS.


Was, was, was. I grew up in Atlanta, so I know the history of TBS quite well. So please do not attempt to Wikipedia lecture me. We know what TBS was and we know what it became later once it was integrated into the cable system. You are posting like it is 1995. TBS became the channel for rerunning comedy shows produced by other networks almost 20 years ago.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Two Sheds said:


> Was, was, was. I grew up in Atlanta, so I know the history of TBS quite well. So please do not attempt to Wikipedia lecture me. We know what TBS was and we know what it became later once it was integrated into the cable system. You are posting like it is 1995. TBS became the channel for rerunning comedy shows produced by other networks almost 20 years ago.


*That's exactly what I thought of it: the rerun channel.*


----------



## fabi1982

3venflow said:


> AEW is not as valuable as WWE but it also operates on a smaller budget with smaller production costs and smaller expectations. In that sense, it overperforms in the 18-49 by getting as near to RAW as it does and that's something the Khans will bring up at the next renewal meeting if the situation is still the same then.


Dont you think he brought this up when the "new deal" with Rampage was made? Or in the discussion (when it actually was a discussion) about moving the show? And I dont see them getting twice the money with a second show. You see there were no real numbers shown, at least I didnt see the increase for the new show.



3venflow said:


> But that would be wasting the value of Dynamite when they know it can do 800k~1m and 0.30~0.42 in the 18-49, which makes them one of the top shows on cable. So Warner instead shifted it to TBS, a slightly less prestigious channel but a slightly more watched channel rather than TNT. Also a channel with a great pro wrestling history.


What I read from all the other posters it is known as the rerun comedy channel, so just having a wrestling history doesnt matter if that was 30 years ago. I know that they place TBBT around the clock and other shows, so not sure if this is your wrestling audience?!



3venflow said:


> On the contrary, here is their official press release headline on the move.
> 
> *AEW Franchise Continues Domination and Expands to TBS in 2022*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW Franchise Continues Domination and Expands to TBS in 2022 | Pressroom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pressroom.warnermedia.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just as you branded Tony Khan and Jim Ross liars, I predict you'll say that is 'just spin'. Because everyone is lying apparently and it's all a cover-up.


Thats like USA writing articles about how much they love RAW and how great it is and still all people in the RAW section (and here as well) say it will die sooner rather than later. You ever heard of marketing? Just because people die driving a Tesla its not like the owner comes around and says "hey thats a shitty car"?!



3venflow said:


> They're written by Alfred Konuwa who worked for Bleacher Report and now works for Forbes Sports. You make it sound like some Wordpress blog where anyone can send their stuff in.


You know the difference between "working at Formes" and being a freelancer, right? And no not anyone can write articles for Forbes, but it doesnt need much, just read the website.



3venflow said:


> It's more a case of you, and several others, not liking AEW and projecting that dislike too much. AEW is in a healthy position and seems to have laid the foundation for the future. It's moving at a much faster pace than TNA did and has already beaten TNA's biggest ever attendance (8,100) several times and will do again in the coming months with the NYC, Newark and probably Chicago shows.


Having a good live attendence doesnt matter for Warner. What counts is the advertising money and as I already said, they got moved because they are not valuable for the spot Khan said days before the decision they will not move from. So again, hard facts...


----------



## Randy Lahey

Two Sheds said:


> Was, was, was. I grew up in Atlanta, so I know the history of TBS quite well. So please do not attempt to Wikipedia lecture me. We know what TBS was and we know what it became later once it was integrated into the cable system. You are posting like it is 1995. TBS became the channel for rerunning comedy shows produced by other networks almost 20 years ago.


Yes and more people still watch old syndicated comedy shows like Seinfeld, Friends, 2 Broke Girls and Big Bang Theory than they watch original programming on TNT.

Do you actually think AEW is going to do lower numbers on TBS? They won’t. They should be higher because the lead ins on TBS are higher than TNT. 

It’s similar to when Raw went from USA to TNN, but TNN was actually a lesser popular network than USA and Raw’s numbers dropped. With TBS, AEW’s should increase.


----------



## La Parka

Two Sheds said:


> TBS became the channel for rerunning comedy shows produced by other networks almost 20 years ago.


Well AEW is basically reruns of the attitude era...


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

La Parka said:


> Well AEW is basically reruns of the attitude era...


*Comedic parodies of the Attitude Era, yes.*


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

shandcraig said:


> this weeks venue is a really cool choice and should look nice on tv.
> 
> i still think in a few years time aew will be on hbo max. for sure hbo max is going to start having live events.


Oh cool, yeah that looks awesome! Really digging these unique venues instead of the basketball/hockey arenas that WWE regularly plays. Gives each show their own feel.


----------



## shandcraig

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Oh cool, yeah that looks awesome! Really digging these unique venues instead of the basketball/hockey arenas that WWE regularly plays. Gives each show their own feel.


They need to be in these better size ones and stop trying to fill massive ones. Though I've heard sometimes you just get cheap deals even with big ones


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

I actually wonder if beyond having slightly more viewers if the type of person who watches TBS would be a better fit for wrestling than the people watching movies or more drama based shows on TNT.

I feel like the type of person watching re-runs of American Dad, Family Guy, Big Bang Theory or Wipeout would be more open to watching something more violent/goofy and "low-brow" like wrestling compared to people watching NCIS, Charmed, Supernatural and the movie of the night. I think they might end up picking up more casual fans on TBS than TNT.

What do you guys think? Could TBS's audience be the type to be more inclined to get into wrestling?


----------



## DammitChrist

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> I actually wonder if beyond having slightly more viewers if the type of person who watches TBS would be a better fit for wrestling than the people watching movies or more drama based shows on TNT.
> 
> I feel like the type of person watching re-runs of American Dad, Family Guy, Big Bang Theory or Wipeout would be more open to watching something more violent/goofy and "low-brow" like wrestling compared to people watching NCIS, Charmed, Supernatural and the movie of the night. I think they might end up picking up more casual fans on TBS than TNT.
> 
> What do you guys think? Could TBS's audience be the type to be more inclined to get into wrestling?


Yea, that's a really good question here. 

I'm honestly 50/50 with AEW's move to TBS in the foreseeable future. I'm not really sure if this move will help them grow more viewers or not 

You seem to know way more about TBS's history and their audience than I even do (which is very little knowledge of it atm), @Randy Lahey . On a scale from 0 through 10, how confident are you that they'll grow more of their wrestling audience once they eventually move to TBS? What does your gut tell you?


----------



## One Shed

Randy Lahey said:


> Yes and more people still watch old syndicated comedy shows like Seinfeld, Friends, 2 Broke Girls and Big Bang Theory than they watch original programming on TNT.
> 
> Do you actually think AEW is going to do lower numbers on TBS? They won’t. They should be higher because the lead ins on TBS are higher than TNT.
> 
> It’s similar to when Raw went from USA to TNN, but TNN was actually a lesser popular network than USA and Raw’s numbers dropped. With TBS, AEW’s should increase.


We were repeatedly told in here for years that only demo matters right? So now you say TBS is better because their overall viewership is a tad higher than TNT even though their key demo number is lower? Which is it?

I have no idea if their numbers will go up or down. What is clear is how the network views the show, comedy. If you think TBS is indeed some kind of promotion, let me know when Turner decides to move the NBA playoffs to TBS. Oh.


----------



## 3venflow

Two Sheds said:


> We were repeatedly told in here for years that only demo matters right? So now you say TBS is better because their overall viewership is a tad higher than TNT even though their key demo number is lower? Which is it?


The demo is more important. But the differences in total viewership and 18-49 for TNT and TBS are so miniscule, it seems unlikely Dynamite will suffer or benefit either way.



> What is clear is how the network views the show, comedy.


They seem more of a variety/entertainment channel than a pure comedy channel despite rerunning famous sitcoms. They've produced as much original reality shows (Go-Big Show, Celebrity Showoffs, Wipeout, etc.) as original comedy shows (Chad, American Dad, etc.) in the past year. They also have MLB and invested big money in The Cube, a famous British game show which made a solid debut with 730k (0.24 in the 18-49).


----------



## One Shed

3venflow said:


> The demo is more important. But the differences in total viewership and 18-49 for TNT and TBS are so miniscule, it seems unlikely Dynamite will suffer or benefit either way.
> 
> 
> 
> They seem more of a variety/entertainment channel than a pure comedy channel despite rerunning famous sitcoms. They've produced as much original reality shows (Go-Big Show, Celebrity Showoffs, Wipeout, etc.) as original comedy shows (Chad, American Dad, etc.) in the past year. They also have MLB and invested big money in The Cube, a famous British game show which made a solid debut with 730k (0.24 in the 18-49).


Again, if they are rebranding again, fine. When they announced the move i said it was the best plan long term since it would mean no/less pre-emptions, but people are on here talking about it being some kind of promotion which is ludicrous. As if "Sorry NBA, we have wrestling now, they get to go on the 'A' network" happened. They clearly value NBA and NHL contracts more, as they should. Call it like it is, no one should be saying this was some kind of reward.


----------



## Randy Lahey

TBS also has Conan O’Brien. The people watching TBS are more in line with people that will watch wrestling.

The lead in is the only thing that is different between TNT and TBS since they both reach the same amount of homes. Both are the most basic of basic cable channels. TNT leads with drama based movies and TBS will have popular sitcoms. 

Since wrestling is itself a sitcom, a lead in of another sitcom makes more sense than a 4 hours of back to back movies.

I think their overall viewers will go up and their demos will stay the same or rise. 



BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> I actually wonder if beyond having slightly more viewers if the type of person who watches TBS would be a better fit for wrestling than the people watching movies or more drama based shows on TNT.
> 
> I feel like the type of person watching re-runs of American Dad, Family Guy, Big Bang Theory or Wipeout would be more open to watching something more violent/goofy and "low-brow" like wrestling compared to people watching NCIS, Charmed, Supernatural and the movie of the night. I think they might end up picking up more casual fans on TBS than TNT.
> 
> What do you guys think? Could TBS's audience be the type to be more inclined to get into wrestling?


----------



## 3venflow

Looks like Chicago will have combo tickets like Pittsburgh. I'm expecting a big crowd at All Out.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1412518968993075200


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

Randy Lahey said:


> TBS also has Conan O’Brien. The people watching TBS are more in line with people that will watch wrestling.
> 
> The lead in is the only thing that is different between TNT and TBS since they both reach the same amount of homes. Both are the most basic of basic cable channels. TNT leads with drama based movies and TBS will have popular sitcoms.
> 
> Since wrestling is itself a sitcom, a lead in of another sitcom makes more sense than a 4 hours of back to back movies.
> 
> I think their overall viewers will go up and their demos will stay the same or rise.


They did have Conan, he just ended his show. 

Yeah I honestly think it's a better fit. Will be interesting to see what happens.


----------



## Not Lying

Two Sheds said:


> We were repeatedly told in here for years that only demo matters right? So now you say TBS is better because their overall viewership is a tad higher than TNT even though their key demo number is lower? Which is it?


It doesn't have to be either/or. They can maybe convert a bigger % of the 18-49 demo watching TBS than the 18-49 watching TNT.


----------



## One Shed

Randy Lahey said:


> TBS also has Conan O’Brien. The people watching TBS are more in line with people that will watch wrestling.
> 
> The lead in is the only thing that is different between TNT and TBS since they both reach the same amount of homes. Both are the most basic of basic cable channels. TNT leads with drama based movies and TBS will have popular sitcoms.
> 
> Since wrestling is itself a sitcom, a lead in of another sitcom makes more sense than a 4 hours of back to back movies.
> 
> I think their overall viewers will go up and their demos will stay the same or rise.


TBS HAD Conan. His show just ended.


The Definition of Technician said:


> It doesn't have to be either/or. They can maybe convert a bigger % of the 18-49 demo watching TBS than the 18-49 watching TNT.


Yes, they definitely could. My issue is specifically the one or two people suddenly acting like AEW was being rewarded with a coveted slot on TBS, when it was nothing of the sort. But yes, it may end up working better for them. That is a big unknown at this point.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

Two Sheds said:


> TBS HAD Conan. His show just ended.
> Yes, they definitely could. My issue is specifically the one or two people suddenly acting like AEW was being rewarded with a coveted slot on TBS, when it was nothing of the sort. But yes, it may end up working better for them. That is a big unknown at this point.


I dunno about other people, but it's certainly not a reward or a promotion, it's a lateral move that will prevent them from being preempted for playoffs, but might end up actually being a better fit for them. 

And I'm not sure but, I think I heard that they actually got some a couple million for being shifted off TNT, because that was their contract, but even Warner realized that this wouldn't work with their NHL deal and the preemptions.


----------



## Rocking Robin

Whether tbs or TNT is the premier channel remains to be seen however one thing that shouldn't be missed was Warner wasting no time in moving aew. The likelihood of preempting is reduced however it's clear where Warner's priorities lie.


----------



## 3venflow

Finals for last week are in from Nielsen, with AEW ranking 7th in the top 200.


----------



## Prosper

3venflow said:


> Finals for last week are in from Nielsen, with AEW ranking 7th in the top 200.
> 
> View attachment 103973


Good to see that the only programs ahead of them are live sports. When the Finals end they should be able to creep up higher, hopefully number one on Wednesdays.


----------



## 3venflow

Current ticket sales in fancy format c/o Brandon Thurston.


----------



## omaroo

3venflow said:


> Current ticket sales in fancy format c/o Brandon Thurston.
> 
> View attachment 103976


Ticket sales look good thus far. 

Even today's show decent ticket sales and will be a good show. 

When the the grand slam show tickets go on sale?


----------



## Prosper

omaroo said:


> Ticket sales look good thus far.
> 
> Even today's show decent ticket sales and will be a good show.
> 
> When the the grand slam show tickets go on sale?


July 16th. They're gonna sell fast for sure.


----------



## Rocking Robin

3venflow said:


> Current ticket sales in fancy format c/o Brandon Thurston.
> 
> View attachment 103976


In the interest of full disclosure it should be mentioned that each total above doesn't represent full capacity but rather many seats are closed off. Aew isn't coming close to filling these buildings.


----------



## 3venflow

Chicago presale has started. Codes:


----------



## 3venflow

Moving fast. These combo tickets seem like a smart idea because it gets them crowds for Rampage and Dynamite too.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1413154789693792259


----------



## 3venflow

Wow.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1413169534752657414


----------



## Prosper

Damn Chicago sold out already?


----------



## 3venflow

Not quite because they didn't release everything in the pre-sale. But it looks like a huge percentage of tickets have gone already as well as thousands sold for Dynamite and Rampage in Chi-Town.

AEW could have three 10,000+ attendances (NYC, Chicago, Newark) in the coming months. To put that into perspective, TNA's biggest ever crowd was 8,100.


----------



## Martyn

All those sold tickets mean more healthier and louder crowds at their events. It's such a relieve after over a year of semi empty arena shows.


----------



## ProjectGargano

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1413174448107229188
This is interesting!


----------



## Prosper

No ratings today?


----------



## 3venflow

871k with 0.33 in the key demo, per the PW Torch. Slightly down on last week (883k / 0.35).


----------



## ProjectGargano

3venflow said:


> 871k with 0.33 in the key demo, per the PW Torch. Slightly down on last week (883k / 0.35).


It was what i expected, maybe a bit less but next week should make +900k. They ran against the Stanley Cup final yesterday and the next week card is awesome.


----------



## DaSlacker

Deserves more but it is what it is. Just got to keep plugging away.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Seeing how the hockey final dint drop them this is a good back on the road number ...they will break amillion here in the next few weeks again..if they stay within 800k-million steady then ita doing good


----------



## 3venflow

From PWTorch with some data on last week's +3 day rating.

Last night was #3 on cable.

-

Last night’s AEW Dynamite (7/7) on TNT, with the “Road Rager” title, drew 871,000 viewers, down from last week’s 883,000, but still above the final Wednesday viewership number of 821,000 before their five-week move from the usual Wednesday slot to Friday late night and Saturday prime time.

Their average the first five weeks after NXT moved from Wednesdays to Tuesdays was 1.009 million viewers, so this week’s number is down 138,000 from that. Three of the first five weeks alone on Wednesdays, Dynamite drew more than 1 million live and same-night viewers.

In the key 18-49 demo, Dynamite drew 0.33, down from 0.35 the week before. It averaged 0.36 in that demo the first six weeks unopposed by NXT on Wednesdays.

Although viewership dropped, the demo rating was still strong enough to land them at no. 3 among all cable shows behind only “Real Housewives” on Bravo and a “Big Bang Theory” replay on TBS.

The male 18-34 demo was 0.21, down from 0.22 last week. It averaged 0.22 in the first six weeks unopposed by NXT on Wednesdays before the five-week stretch of being bumped from Wednesdays.

The male 18-49 demo drew 0.45, matching last week’s rating, but below the 0.48 it averaged in the six weeks before being preempted for five weeks.

We have updated data for plus-3 and plus-7 day viewership totals, too. Last week’s Dynamite topped 1 million viewers last week after three days with 1.046 million, the first time it topped 1 million after three days since a five week stretch from Apr. 14 to May 11. It fell just 2,000 short of 1 million on May 19, too.

None of the Dynamites on Friday late night or Saturday prime time during the five-week stretch of being preempted from Wednesdays topped 1 million viewers after seven days, but the Saturday prime time special on June 25 came closest with 945,000 total viewers. It averaged over 1.2 million viewers after seven days for the six week stretch being unopposed by NXT before the preemptions in May and June began.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Botchy SinCara said:


> Seeing how the hockey final dint drop them this is a good back on the road number ...they will break amillion here in the next few weeks again..if they stay within 800k-million steady then ita doing good


Lets not pretend hockey is a big sport and a ratings juggernaut, even if it is Stanley Cup. NBA & NFL are the only sports that eats into the wrestling audience.


----------



## Prosper

871K? Dropped a little but still a good number. Last night's show deserved more in my opinion. 

Fyter Fest should hopefully be closer to a mil with the Darby/Ethan Coffin match.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

You love to see it ..aew is growing and wwe falling ..I'm banking this time next year aew will be pass raw in ratings


----------



## Prosper

Botchy SinCara said:


> You love to see it ..aew is growing and wwe falling ..I'm banking this time next year aew will be pass raw in ratings
> View attachment 104024


RAW this week did a 1.47 average live. AEW last week did over a million after the 3 day viewership and has pulled over 1.1 mil live on multiple occassions. At the very least the 3 day viewership will pass RAW's live viewership consistently, which isn't saying much but the gap is closing. Beating RAW at 1.4 - 1.5 live though could take a while. AEW is damn near selling out shows in days and WWE is struggling to sell tickets I hear. Beating RAW at 1.4 - 1.5 live though could take a while.


----------



## rich110991

Botchy SinCara said:


> You love to see it ..aew is growing and wwe falling ..I'm banking this time next year aew will be pass raw in ratings
> View attachment 104024


Cannot wait for this day to come. Where will the “AEW is not competition” folk be then? 😄


----------



## RainmakerV2

Botchy SinCara said:


> You love to see it ..aew is growing and wwe falling ..I'm banking this time next year aew will be pass raw in ratings
> View attachment 104024



Whats your PayPal. I'll meet you here in 365 days.


----------



## Geert Wilders

we must not compare the failing of WWE with the success of AEW. WWE is failing on its own.


----------



## 3venflow

They seem closer to RAW and Smackdown than they are NXT in the 18-49 now, but still way behind RAW and Smackdown in total viewers and closer to NXT still on that front.


----------



## rich110991

3venflow said:


> They seem closer to RAW and Smackdown than they are NXT in the 18-49 now, but still way behind RAW and Smackdown in total viewers and closer to NXT still on that front.
> 
> View attachment 104026
> 
> 
> View attachment 104025


It really is baffling 🤷‍♂️


----------



## 3venflow

rich110991 said:


> It really is baffling 🤷‍♂️


Not really. WWE is an old and historic brand that many still watch almost out of habit sometimes - kinda like The Simpsons which has also declined so much but still has an audience. The total viewership has declined but the sort of global brand power they have means it's very difficult for any upstart brand to match them in total viewership (and I don't just mean live TV, but also social media which is important these days) and live events. That AEW is so close to them in the coveted 18-49 and competing with some of their ticket sales is impressive. AEW just needs to continue brand building over many years.


----------



## RiverFenix

Prowrestling isn't culturally relevant enough where you need to watch it live. You have to go out of your way to be spoiled, if you just avoid wrestling sites and go about your life, you can avoid spoilers completely and watch it fresh as your leisure. Now I'm a self-loathing wrestling fan to a large extent and I haven't talked current pro wrestling in person with anybody in probably 15 yrs but nobody is talking around the water cooler about the latest episode like GoT the night after or the weekend after latest Marvel movie came out. And sports scores and results are covered on mainstream news to the point you could inadvertantly hear the winner if you wanted to watch the game later.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

3venflow said:


> Not really. WWE is an old and historic brand that many still watch almost out of habit sometimes - kinda like The Simpsons which has also declined so much but still has an audience. The total viewership has declined but the sort of global brand power they have means it's very difficult for any upstart brand to match them in total viewership (and I don't just mean live TV, but also social media which is important these days) and live events. That AEW is so close to them in the coveted 18-49 and competing with some of their ticket sales is impressive. AEW just needs to continue brand building over many years.



The problem is WWE can be good but chooses not to ..i dont want wwe to become obsolete because we can have both wwe and aew ..competition breeds better shows ..if aew continues to grow Maybe wwe will pull the stick out of their asses

Aew was juts born and is nipping at wee heels who been around for decades


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*I expected a drop because they removed Darby's coffin match. He's their biggest male draw. Numbers will go up when it happens.*


----------



## yeahright2

Ratings are in. 
AEW Ratings prediction game

Considering it was a special event, and their first show back on the road, it should give thought to concern that they didn´t even top last week. But it wasn´t a catastrophic number. I suppose we have established now that their core audience is somewhere between 850-920K


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

yeahright2 said:


> Ratings are in.
> AEW Ratings prediction game
> 
> Considering it was a special event, and their first show back on the road, it should give thought to concern that they didn´t even top last week. But it wasn´t a catastrophic number. I suppose we have established now that their core audience is somewhere between 850-920K


*I agree, but the card was mediocre on its face, and they will never learn that they're actively telling people not to watch when they do this shit. When I saw no Britt and Darby, I canceled my seats.*


----------



## holy

It's quite troubling that their viewership is the same as it was when they had NXT running on the same night.


----------



## Mr316

871k unopposed is now considered a good number? 😂😂😂


----------



## DammitChrist

yeahright2 said:


> Ratings are in.
> AEW Ratings prediction game
> 
> Considering it was a special event, and their first show back on the road, it should give thought to concern that they didn´t even top last week. But it wasn´t a catastrophic number. I suppose we have established now that their core audience is somewhere between 850-920K


Yea, I honestly think that they really need to avoid hitting below 800 K viewers for an ordinary Dynamite episode.

I also have the belief that they should at least try to hang on to 820 K viewers for a decent number. 850 K+ viewers though is solid to me.

They’re better off focusing on retaining (most of) their audience first before they eventually grow further (which I'm sure will happen later down the line).



Mr316 said:


> 871k unopposed is now considered a good number? 😂😂😂


Yes, it's a good number.


----------



## rich110991

I just think it’s still early days and all of the signs are good so far


----------



## NathanMayberry

Mr316 said:


> 871k unopposed is now considered a good number?


Oh you didn’t know?

The new metric for ratings is the +3 days total viewership.. it helps AEW reach a million so that’s what we’re supposed to care about now  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DammitChrist

NathanMayberry said:


> Oh you didn’t know?
> 
> The new metric for ratings is the +3 days total viewership.. it helps AEW reach a million so that’s what we’re supposed to care about now
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's a cool metric to know about when put into perspective, and @Prosper should be commended (instead of being ridiculed) for sharing that statistic with us


----------



## NathanMayberry

Alvarez sounds like the people posting here.


----------



## Mr316

871k used to be an average number when facing NXT. Now 871k is good unopposed. What’s a bad number? 600k? 😂


----------



## TD Stinger

I don't know how much "being on the road again" will help them viewership wise considering that they've had shows with fans in attendance for months now. Granted it's been in one location. But having fans in the stands for was kind of normalized before going back on the road. Then again, it's only been one show, so we'll see what happens next week.


----------



## anonymous9437

So the ratings dropped?

How will the AEW superfans explain this?

My guess is they will use the Stanley Cup Final game 5 with the Lighting winning the cup as the excuse for this week


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Mr316 said:


> 871k used to be an average number when facing NXT. Now 871k is good unopposed. What’s a bad number? 600k? 😂



They grew from this time last year ...ticket sales are great and always in the top 5 in the ratings...3 last night so


And let's not pretend dvr and streams don't exist ..aew has done nothing but grow year after year ...they are less than half a million behind raw ..a flag ship that is decades old.


----------



## Mr316

Botchy SinCara said:


> They geew from this time last year ...ticket sales are great and always in the top 5 in the ratings...3 last night so
> 
> 
> And let's not pretend dvr and streams don't exist ..aew has done nothing but grow year after year ...they are less than half a million behind raw ..a flag ship that is decades old so


AEW is not growing. Raw is simply declining. It’s easy to be in the top rated shows on cable now. There’s nothing anymore on TV.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Mr316 said:


> AEW is not growing. Raw is simply declining. It’s easy to be in the top rated shows on cable now. There’s nothing anymore on TV.


Ok so you talk out of your ass without knowing anything ..good to know


----------



## DammitChrist

Mr316 said:


> AEW is not growing. Raw is simply declining. It’s easy to be in the top rated shows on cable now. There’s nothing anymore on TV.


Yes, AEW is growing.


----------



## anonymous9437

AEW fans think that because WWE ratings are dropping this means that AEW ratings will rise

What it actually means is people do not care to watch pro wrestling anymore whether it’s AEW or WWE, the industry is dying no matter what these blind faithful AEW fans try to tell you


----------



## Mr316

DammitChrist said:


> Yes, AEW is growing.


No they’re not.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

holy said:


> It's quite troubling that their viewership is the same as it was when they had NXT running on the same night.


*Now they just reach to DVRs instead of acknowledging the underperformance*.


----------



## DammitChrist

Mr316 said:


> No they’re not.


Yes, they are 



anonymous9437 said:


> AEW fans think that because WWE ratings are dropping this means that AEW ratings will rise
> 
> What it actually means is people do not care to watch pro wrestling anymore whether it’s AEW or WWE, the industry is dying no matter what these *blind faithful AEW fans* try to tell you


For the record, you can't really label anymore.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

anonymous9437 said:


> AEW fans think that because WWE ratings are dropping this means that AEW ratings will rise
> 
> What it actually means is people do not care to watch pro wrestling anymore whether it’s AEW or WWE, the industry is dying no matter what these blind faithful AEW fans try to tell you


*The best part is how they ignore that AEW dropped from 1.2 million to 871 k since they went unopposed and keep trying to spin it as a win. *


----------



## anonymous9437

The only evidence I can find that proves that AEW is a growing company is @DammitChrist saying that it is

Sadly that’s good enough for a lot of AEW fans on this forum


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *The best part is how they ignore that AEW dropped from 1.2 million to 871 k since they went unopposed and keep trying to spin it as a win. *


Yea, I don’t see how 871 K isn’t supposed to still be a fairly good number for them atm, but hey, I suppose it’s rather fun not giving the benefit of the doubt here.

Edit: 

Oh, I just remembered how you claimed that they lost THOUSANDS of viewers last month when they were airing on Friday nights (which we obviously KNEW it was only because of the awful time slot); but now that they’ve regained much of their audience since then, you’re back to using that statistic to continue being pessimistic :lol


----------



## anonymous9437

DammitChrist said:


> Yea, I don’t see how 871 K isn’t supposed to still be a fairly good number for them atm, but hey, I suppose it’s rather fun not giving the benefit of the doubt here.


But you said they are growing?


----------



## RainmakerV2

Botchy SinCara said:


> They grew from this time last year ...ticket sales are great and always in the top 5 in the ratings...3 last night so
> 
> 
> And let's not pretend dvr and streams don't exist ..aew has done nothing but grow year after year ...they are less than half a million behind raw ..a flag ship that is decades old.


So no one streams or DVRs RAW? Why does WWE never get that excuse?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

anonymous9437 said:


> But you said they are growing?


*It's good to see Steiner Math is alive and well.*


----------



## TheGunnShow

ProjectGargano said:


> It was what i expected, maybe a bit less but next week should make +900k. They ran against the Stanley Cup final yesterday and the next week card is awesome.


Hardly anyone watches hockey.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

The same ones ignoring them growing are the same ones who said they wouldn't recover from 600k

Then said they wouldn't live through the pandemic


Then said they wouldn't recover from 480k on late night Friday

Either they are shit posters or wwe drones and I don't know which is worse


----------



## ProjectGargano

TheGunnShow said:


> Hardly anyone watches hockey.


I'm not saying that had a big impact! But that's not the real case, game 4 had 2,6M people watching, almost the double of this week's Raw 😉


----------



## DammitChrist

Botchy SinCara said:


> The same ones ignoring them growing are the same ones who said they wouldn't recover from 600k
> 
> Then said they wouldn't live through the pandemic
> 
> 
> Then said they wouldn't recover from 480k on late night Friday
> 
> Either they are shit posters or wwe drones and I don't know which is worse


Oh yea, I haven’t forgotten about how folks were told earlier that they would be unable to recover and grow back their (TV) audience last month, but now they’ve already managed to get back to their usual numbers pre-Friday night switch. 

Anyway, it just feels good seeing them get good numbers again in spite of the complaints over the past month.


----------



## Prosper

RainmakerV2 said:


> So no one streams or DVRs RAW? Why does WWE never get that excuse?


Because those threads are dead?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prosper said:


> Because those threads are dead?


*Terrible excuse. When people make asinine statements about AEW surpassing RAW based on DVR numbers, you're not allowed to ignore the RAW DVR numbers.

Hard facts: they've only dropped since going unopposed. They literally peaked their first week and have been trending downward since. There's no reason the show shouldn't be doing a million a week, but they handicapped themselves with stupid booking and medicore cards full of no names.*


----------



## Kentucky34

DammitChrist said:


> Yes, AEW is growing.


It is not.

They drew over a million viewers after NXT stopped running against them on Wednesday nights.

Now they can't even draw 900k

They have slowly being bleeding viewers for 18 months


----------



## RainmakerV2

Botchy SinCara said:


> The same ones ignoring them growing are the same ones who said they wouldn't recover from 600k
> 
> Then said they wouldn't live through the pandemic
> 
> 
> Then said they wouldn't recover from 480k on late night Friday
> 
> Either they are shit posters or wwe drones and I don't know which is worse


Whats your PayPal and I'll meet you here in 365 days like I said. Friendly wager, you name it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

anonymous9437 said:


> The only evidence I can find that proves that AEW is a growing company is @DammitChrist saying that it is
> 
> Sadly that’s good enough for a lot of AEW fans on this forum


geez… you’re antagonistic


----------



## NathanMayberry

DammitChrist said:


> It's a cool metric to know about when put into perspective, and @Prosper should be commended (instead of being ridiculed) for sharing that statistic with us


I’ve been apart of the IWC for 20 years and I don’t recall it ever mattering before. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

NathanMayberry said:


> I’ve been apart of the IWC for 20 years and I don’t recall it ever mattering before.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*Because it doesn't. Networks want their viewers watching live, not fast forwarding through their ads.*


----------



## NathanMayberry

TD Stinger said:


> I don't know how much "being on the road again" will help them viewership wise considering that they've had shows with fans in attendance for months now. Granted it's been in one location. But having fans in the stands for was kind of normalized before going back on the road. Then again, it's only been one show, so we'll see what happens next week.



They’ve kind of fucked themselves over by not actually rebranding once they went on the road.

These shows are hardly any different than before. They should have redesigned the set, so that it feels different to the viewer on tv. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## AboutDatBiz619

Sad rating, they really need to switch things up. Maybe out the AEW championship on a fan favorite, also cut out the Dark Order stuff. I thought that they would hit a mill being back on the road but instead their ratings look like the AMC stock.


----------



## ProjectGargano

AboutDatBiz619 said:


> Sad rating, they really need to switch things up. Maybe out the AEW championship on a fan favorite, also cut out the Dark Order stuff. I thought that they would hit a mill being back on the road but instead their ratings look like the AMC stock.


The drama, the horror.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Not the worst rating but they really should have aimed higher this week. You'd expect a back on the road show to get at least 900k. Again it's no a bad rating but it's not a great one either.


----------



## Klitschko

Decent rating. Expected a little more though.


----------



## Prosper

The Legit DMD said:


> *Terrible excuse. When people make asinine statements about AEW surpassing RAW based on DVR numbers, you're not allowed to ignore the RAW DVR numbers.
> 
> Hard facts: they've only dropped since going unopposed. They literally peaked their first week and have been trending downward since. There's no reason the show shouldn't be doing a million a week, but they handicapped themselves with stupid booking and medicore cards full of no names.*


What? Lol Boss.

You say I ignore the details but I never do. I've never ignored RAW DVR numbers, my post clearly said that AEW +3 DVR had a chance of surpassing RAW's live numbers, but that AEW live would take a while before beating RAW live. My words were crystal clear. The WWE threads are dead and if people there were as knowledgeable as the people in the AEW section, the discussions would be the same.

It's honestly hard to care about these petty debates. My guy, we have all been having this same back and forth convo for the last 2 years! lol Cable ratings go up and down. They fluctuate. They're not going downwards they're fluctuating because of the simple fact that live viewing habits are abnormal. If popularity was dying then why would tickets be selling so fast? How does that make sense to you? Do you not see the disconnect?

The fact that people watch the show later should tell you that, but I'm the one ignoring details? If you had a family dinner on a Wednesday night or if a friend of yours you haven't seen in a minute was in town for one night only, would you stay in and watch wrestling or would you go out and enjoy yourself, then watch the show later? Everyone is living a different life and the fluctuation of cable ratings happens across all of TV. You think that the NBA Finals ratings wouldn't be higher if hundreds if not thousands of people weren't having watch parties or watching at a bar getting turnt? I like to think that you're more logical than that. It's not an absolute necessity for you to shit on the company bro. Like it's okay. It really is. You're starting to go full Wood. Never go full Wood.

I can assure you that the cable audience is not watching the same way we do. They're not in tune with every piece of news and they don't dissect everything they see, they just want to turn on the TV and see a fun wrestling show which AEW delivers. The average cable wrestling fan is 47 years old.

There are plenty of reasons why the show wouldn't be at a million every week, the obvious one being that they can't always watch live. You have to promote something for multiple weeks on end to get people hyped for the future much like they did Blood and Guts. But they can't do that kind of stuff every week or else people like you would accuse them of hot-shotting. You know I'm a diehard and I literally couldn't watch the last 2 Dynamites live prior to Road Rager because I had things going on. It would be the same for RAW and SD. People watch when they can. There's literally no point to these arguments.

You told me that you couldn't wait for July for them to be pulling the same Friday night death slot numbers, thereby ignoring the position they were in, and now that they're still in a good place you're still shitting on them instead of admitting you were wrong. I mean what's the point? What are you people even doing? Literally copying and pasting the same comments over and over. They'll eventually hit higher numbers like always and you'll mysteriously go quiet, then they'll drop back down and you'll be shitting on them again. Rinse and repeat. It almost comes off like you're just talking shit unconsciously because of some uncontrollable reflex.

What are these no-name feuds? The current feuds as of 2 weeks ago leading into last night were/are:

Black vs Cody
Darby vs Ethan Page
Brian Cage vs Ricky Starks
Matt Hardy vs Christian
Omega vs Hangman
Britt vs Nyla
OC/Statlander vs Bunny/Butcher/Blade
Young Bucks vs Moxley/Death Triangle/Kingston
Cody vs QT
Inner Circle vs Pinnacle

The only no-name I see here is QT. They can't just run around booking the most stacked cards of all time every week. Then you just end up running rematch after rematch. Then guess what, you'll complain about that too right?

You're a guy that wants to put Maki Itoh all over the show. Is she not a no-name compared to everyone I just listed? I love Jade Cargill but is she not a no-name compared to the rest?

"Have Maki sing all over Dynamite because she has personality!"
"Put Jade Cargill over the men on PPV clean because she looks good!"
"Put Maki Itoh over Tay Conti and Serena Deeb because she has Twitter followers!"

Your booking is ten times worse than RAW and you're over here talking about what is and isn't mediocre. You're literally the least qualified person to make such a judgment on quality.


----------



## thorn123

anonymous9437 said:


> AEW fans think that because WWE ratings are dropping this means that AEW ratings will rise
> 
> What it actually means is people do not care to watch pro wrestling anymore whether it’s AEW or WWE, the industry is dying no matter what these blind faithful AEW fans try to tell you


I am a big AEW fan, but I agree with you people don’t care about wrestling. I have been saying for some time that no amount of “perfect booking” will have much effect in viewership these days. If AEW can hit a million regularly it would be a huge achievement in this environment.


----------



## DammitChrist

Prosper said:


> What? Lol Boss.
> 
> You say I ignore the details but I never do. I've never ignored RAW DVR numbers, my post clearly said that AEW +3 DVR had a chance of surpassing RAW's live numbers, but that AEW live would take a while before beating RAW live. My words were crystal clear. The WWE threads are dead and if people there were as knowledgeable as the people in the AEW section, the discussions would be the same.
> 
> It's honestly hard to care about these petty debates. My guy, we have all been having this same back and forth convo for the last 2 years! lol Cable ratings go up and down. They fluctuate. They're not going downwards they're fluctuating because of the simple fact that live viewing habits are abnormal. If popularity was dying then why would tickets be selling so fast? How does that make sense to you? Do you not see the disconnect?
> 
> The fact that people watch the show later should tell you that, but I'm the one ignoring details? If you had a family dinner on a Wednesday night or if a friend of yours you haven't seen in a minute was in town for one night only, would you stay in and watch wrestling or would you go out and enjoy yourself, then watch the show later? Everyone is living a different life and the fluctuation of cable ratings happens across all of TV. You think that the NBA Finals ratings wouldn't be higher if hundreds if not thousands of people weren't having watch parties or watching at a bar getting turnt? I like to think that you're more logical than that. It's not an absolute necessity for you to shit on the company bro. Like it's okay. It really is. You're starting to go full Wood. Never go full Wood.
> 
> I can assure you that the cable audience is not watching the same way we do. They're not in tune with every piece of news and they don't dissect everything they see, they just want to turn on the TV and see a fun wrestling show which AEW delivers. The average cable wrestling fan is 47 years old.
> 
> There are plenty of reasons why the show wouldn't be at a million every week, the obvious one being that they can't always watch live. You have to promote something for multiple weeks on end to get people hyped for the future much like they did Blood and Guts. But they can't do that kind of stuff every week or else people like you would accuse them of hot-shotting. You know I'm a diehard and I literally couldn't watch the last 2 Dynamites live prior to Road Rager because I had things going on. It would be the same for RAW and SD. People watch when they can. There's literally no point to these arguments.
> 
> You told me that you couldn't wait for July for them to be pulling the same Friday night death slot numbers, thereby ignoring the position they were in, and now that they're still in a good place you're still shitting on them instead of admitting you were wrong. I mean what's the point? What are you people even doing? Literally copying and pasting the same comments over and over. They'll eventually hit higher numbers like always and you'll mysteriously go quiet, then they'll drop back down and you'll be shitting on them again. Rinse and repeat. It almost comes off like you're just talking shit unconsciously because of some uncontrollable reflex.
> 
> What are these no-name feuds? The current feuds as of 2 weeks ago leading into last night were/are:
> 
> Black vs Cody
> Darby vs Ethan Page
> Brian Cage vs Ricky Starks
> Matt Hardy vs Christian
> Omega vs Hangman
> Britt vs Nyla
> OC/Statlander vs Bunny/Butcher/Blade
> Young Bucks vs Moxley/Death Triangle/Kingston
> Cody vs QT
> Inner Circle vs Pinnacle
> 
> The only no-name I see here is QT. They can't just run around booking the most stacked cards of all time every week. Then you just end up running rematch after rematch. Then guess what, you'll complain about that too right?
> 
> You're a guy that wants to put Maki Itoh all over the show. Is she not a no-name compared to everyone I just listed? I love Jade Cargill but is she not a no-name compared to the rest?
> 
> "Have Maki sing all over Dynamite because she has personality!"
> "Put Jade Cargill over the men on PPV clean because she looks good!"
> "Put Maki Itoh over Tay Conti and Serena Deeb because she has Twitter followers!"
> 
> Your booking is ten times worse than RAW and you're over here talking about what is and isn't mediocre. You're literally the least qualified person to make such a judgment on quality.


This was absolutely beautiful to read all the way through 

Anyway, you’re completely right about the abnormal viewing habits playing an important role in the DVR numbers.

Ratings do tend to fluctuate often enough, so that’s why I believe that they should focus on retaining their viewership *first* by continuing to deliver good shows each week for a while., and *THEN *they can eventually capitalize on their good will by making more big positive changes that could potentially help the audience grow even more


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

@Prosper *You have no idea what you're talking about. I never said they would maintain 400 k. At least attempt to use facts as you struggle to make a coherent argument. Secondly, you desperately reach for anything that makes AEW look remotely adequate and celebrate as if they're doing Attitude Era numbers. Third, you make embarrassing excuses when they do something incredibly stupid. 

As for my booking, Jade going over men will be money and I really don't care how you feel about it. It's not going to change anything. Itoh has been a proven draw on every single occasion she's appeared on this program, yet you want her to be on Dark with the irrelevant jobbers getting squashed. I'll take WCW Russo over any idea you have.*


----------



## DaSlacker

DaveRA said:


> I am a big AEW fan, but I agree with you people don’t care about wrestling. I have been saying for some time that no amount of “perfect booking” will have much effect in viewership these days. If AEW can hit a million regularly it would be a huge achievement in this environment.


Monotony, overexposure, WCW and then TNA fizzling out, WWE pushing people away, people not watching traditional TV, addictive online based video games. All of it together has done irreparable damage to the genre and industry, hasn't it?


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> @Prosper *You have no idea what you're talking about. I never said they would maintain 400 k. At least attempt to use facts as you struggle to make a coherent argument. Secondly, you desperately reach for anything that makes AEW look remotely adequate and celebrate as if they're doing Attitude Era numbers. Third, you make embarrassing excuses when they do something incredibly stupid.
> 
> As for my booking, Jade going over men will be money and I really don't care how you feel about it. It's not going to change anything. Itoh has been a proven draw on every single occasion she's appeared on this program, yet you want her to be on Dark with the irrelevant jobbers getting squashed. I'll take WCW Russo over any idea you have.*


In other words, you can't provide an effective counterpoint at all to those valid points that @Prosper made (who actually used sound logic and reasoning in his coherent argument), so you're just going to dismiss anything that he just said by falsely labeling his points as "excuses" 

For the record, he's right about AEW's booking being much preferable to what you're suggesting here atm.


----------



## La Parka

For the record... AEW doing the same numbers as it did durning the pandemic while being opposed by NXT is not growth.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

La Parka said:


> For the record... AEW doing the same numbers as it did durning the pandemic while being opposed by NXT is not growth.


*It's sad that this has to be explained, but not surprising at all.*


----------



## Prosper

La Parka said:


> For the record... AEW doing the same numbers as it did durning the pandemic while being opposed by NXT is not growth.


Well why don't you and the rest of the younger viewers buy a cable box then?

Overall growth can't solely be measured by cable viewers in 2021. You have to consider everything else too like live shows, social media, streaming apps etc.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prosper said:


> Well why don't you and the rest of the younger viewers buy a cable box then?
> 
> Overall growth can't solely be measured by cable viewers in 2021. You have to consider everything else too like live shows, social media, streaming apps etc.


*Alright guys, RAW is doing 3 mil because of apps and shit. I can't prove it, but kids and technology and all that. Just trust me bro.*


----------



## Prosper

The Legit DMD said:


> *Alright guys, RAW is doing 3 mil because of apps and shit. I can't prove it, but kids and technology and all that. Just trust me bro.*


I'm pretty sure after DVR and streaming RAW is doing at least 2.5 - 3 million. Maybe more. 

Here is a screenshot from one streaming site. (Sorry mods I know this is probably not allowed) Monthly visits 3.2 million. I pointed the red arrow at it. There are at least 20+ streaming sites just like this. Take a look at the recent views on Youtube videos. If cable numbers told the whole story, you think those numbers would be that high?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prosper said:


> I'm pretty sure after DVR and streaming RAW is doing at least 2.5 - 3 million. Maybe more.
> 
> Here is a screenshot from one streaming site. (Sorry mods I know this is probably not allowed) Monthly visits 3.2 million. I pointed the red arrow at it. There are at least 20+ streaming sites just like this. Take a look at the recent views on Youtube videos. If cable numbers told the whole story, you think those numbers would be that high?
> 
> View attachment 104032


*@Firefromthegods please don't ban him for this. 

No, but that's not the point. We're talking specifically about television ratings, and the fact of the matter is that the television ratings are dropping. I don't want to hear excuses about streams when they hit 1.2 mill on their first unopposed episode. That shows me that there are people willing to watch this on television if they're providing a good product, but they don't do enough to maintain that audience. *


----------



## TheGunnShow

Prosper said:


> I'm pretty sure after DVR and streaming RAW is doing at least 2.5 - 3 million. Maybe more.
> 
> Here is a screenshot from one streaming site. (Sorry mods I know this is probably not allowed) Monthly visits 3.2 million. I pointed the red arrow at it. There are at least 20+ streaming sites just like this. Take a look at the recent views on Youtube videos. If cable numbers told the whole story, you think those numbers would be that high?
> 
> View attachment 104032


DVR doesn't matter because advertisers don't want people fast forwarding through commercials, and streaming sites make them 0 money.


----------



## La Parka

Prosper said:


> I'm pretty sure after DVR and streaming RAW is doing at least 2.5 - 3 million. Maybe more.
> 
> Here is a screenshot from one streaming site. (Sorry mods I know this is probably not allowed) Monthly visits 3.2 million. I pointed the red arrow at it. There are at least 20+ streaming sites just like this. Take a look at the recent views on Youtube videos. If cable numbers told the whole story, you think those numbers would be that high?
> 
> View attachment 104032


That site has UFC ppvs. I’m not sure how much of those people are tuning into dynamite.


----------



## Prosper

La Parka said:


> That site has UFC ppvs. I’m not sure how much of those people are tuning into dynamite.


UFC PPV's only run like once a month or like every 6 weeks so you would think most of these people are looking for wrestling content across all promotions.

There's a bunch with just wrestling content too though.



TheGunnShow said:


> DVR doesn't matter because advertisers don't want people fast forwarding through commercials, and streaming sites make them 0 money.


Yes I know to advertisers it means nothing. But that's not the discussion we were having.



The Legit DMD said:


> *@Firefromthegods please don't ban him for this.
> 
> No, but that's not the point. We're talking specifically about television ratings, and the fact of the matter is that the television ratings are dropping. I don't want to hear excuses about streams when they hit 1.2 mill on their first unopposed episode. That shows me that there are people willing to watch this on television if they're providing a good product, but they don't do enough to maintain that audience. *


I mean the whole debate started after Rainmaker's post about RAW DVR not mattering to people, then you said I was ignoring RAW DVR numbers and suggested that popularity for Dynamite was dropping.

Like I said before we don't know who these people are so it's hard to just jump to conclusions on any show. SD debuted on FOX to like 4 million viewers then plummeted. How many of those cable people (who watch FOX) were actually interested in wrestling when they debuted on the network? How many of the 1.2 million were just people on TNT at the time or curious WWE viewers who were always going to be loyal to RAW/SD?

Look, I'm not saying that AEW is perfect and they can certainly get better cable numbers, but at the same time you never know what people like or what will make them tune in. There's no formula. There were people who hated the NWO after all and people suggest on here that running storylines like that will all of a sudden bring the show up to 1.2mil+ a week. The entire forum for the most part hates OC, but you mentioned that you enjoyed him. So if you're tuning in on cable for OC or Maki Itoh who you think enhances the show and think would make people want to watch, but thousands are tuning out because they don't like them, then who's right and who's wrong and what should they put on TV? The cable audience is just a segment of the entire audience that they have to try and please and it comes through trial and error.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prosper said:


> Yes I know to advertisers it means nothing. But that's not the discussion we were having.
> 
> 
> I mean the whole debate started after Rainmaker's post about RAW DVR not mattering to people, then you said I was ignoring RAW DVR numbers and suggested that popularity for Dynamite was dropping.


*I also said advertisers don't give a damn about DVRs because they exist to skip their ads.*



> Like I said before we don't know who these people are so it's hard to just jump to conclusions on any show. SD debuted on FOX to like 4 million viewers then plummeted. How many of those cable people (who watch FOX) were actually interested in wrestling when they debuted on the network? How many of the 1.2 million were just people on TNT at the time or curious WWE viewers who were always going to be loyal to RAW/SD?


*SmackDown hit 4 mil last year with an NFL lead in. Even I said it was an anomaly, but it was still impressive that they managed to keep the majority of those viewers for that show. 2 mil is Smackdown's true audience and that's okay because it's doing much better than RAW. They'll drop to 1.8 occasionally and bounce back. AEW hit 1.2 specifically for the first unopposed episode and never got those viewers back. There's a major difference here.*



> Look, I'm not saying that AEW is perfect and they can certainly get better cable numbers, but at the same time you never know what people like or what will make them tune in. There's no formula. There were people who hated the NWO after all and people suggest on here that running storylines like that will all of a sudden bring the show up to 1.2mil+ a week.


*It's generally agreed upon by both fanatics and critics that they should stop advertising full cards because it directly tells people with certain favorites not to watch, which unnecessarily alienates their own audience. WWE is much smarter in this regard because they advertise like three matches and make you tune in to see what else is going on.*



> The entire forum for the most part hates OC, but you mentioned that you enjoyed him. So if you're tuning in on cable for OC or Maki Itoh who you think enhances the show and think would make people want to watch, but thousands are tuning out because they don't like them, then who's right and who's wrong and what should they put on TV?


*This is conjecture. You have no data to suggest OC and Itoh are losing viewers because they've only been proven to enhance metrics, most notably merchandise sales. This is documented fact that was proven on multiple occasions. You're speculating based on the idea that the vocal minority dislikes them and that doesn't mean shit because they produce tangible results*.


----------



## alex0816

The Legit DMD said:


> @Prosper
> 
> *As for my booking, Jade going over men will be money and I really don't care how you feel about it. It's not going to change anything. Itoh has been a proven draw on every single occasion she's appeared on this program, yet you want her to be on Dark with the irrelevant jobbers getting squashed. I'll take WCW Russo over any idea you have.*


oh go as if you couldn't sound any stupider.......


----------



## alex0816

also pretty sure the only people who really care about ratings are the cry babies who want AEW to fail and who have wanted them to fail since dya 1. yall the same people who called them a t shirt company that would never be on tv lmaoooooo


----------



## CovidFan

Seems like a fine number for this week. lol @ calling it growth, though.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

alex0816 said:


> also pretty sure the only people who really care about ratings are the cry babies who want AEW to fail and who have wanted them to fail since dya 1. yall the same people who called them a t shirt company that would never be on tv lmaoooooo


People care about ratings and viewership because it indicates where the company and show sits, whether it's performing well or not, I've been critical of AEW before but i'll give them props when it's earned. They're doing alright at the moment but I reckon they need to make a few changes and improvements before they start hitting a million consistently.


----------



## CM Buck

you're good @Prosper


----------



## Danielallen1410

People talk about lack of growth as though tv ratings is the only barometer.

For a start people don’t always watch live….. 

They are doing well in almost every department for a new company.


----------



## Danielallen1410

TheGunnShow said:


> DVR doesn't matter because advertisers don't want people fast forwarding through commercials, and streaming sites make them 0 money.


It’s not the 90s anymore. Advertisers are smart enough to know that most people don’t watch tv shows live anymore.


----------



## Danielallen1410

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> People care about ratings and viewership because it indicates where the company and show sits, whether it's performing well or not, I've been critical of AEW before but i'll give them props when it's earned. They're doing alright at the moment but I reckon they need to make a few changes and improvements before they start hitting a million consistently.


It’s one of many indicators.


----------



## Jaxon

Danielallen1410 said:


> People talk about lack of growth as though tv ratings is the only barometer.
> 
> For a start people don’t always watch live…..
> 
> They are doing well in almost every department for a new company.


genuine question, does this mean that WWE isn't doing as bad as people say also?


----------



## TD Stinger

Q1: Cody Rhodes vs. QT Marshall, 994,000 viewers and 495,000 in 18-49.

Q2: Kenny Omega, Don Callis, The Dark Order, Doc Gallows & Frankie Kazarian and Adam Page/ Jim Ross sitdown with Darby Allin and Ethan Page. 954,000 viewers and 486,000 in 18-49.

Q3z FTR & Wardlow vs. Santana & Ortiz & Jake Hager with Tully Blanchard and Konnan. 883,000 viewers and 413,000 in 18-49

Q4 Chris Jericho/MJF segment and Britt Baker interview- 821,000 viewers and 388,000 in 18-49

Q5. Andrade vs. Matt Sydal, the debut of Malakai Black with Arn Anderson and Cody Rhodes- 878,000 viewers and 430,000 in 18-49.

Q6 Ricky Starks, Taz and Brian Cage and the beginning of Orange Cassidy & Kris Statlander vs. Blade & Bunny- 833,000 viewers and 384,000 in 18-49.

Q7-Archer and Dan Lambert Segment- 799,000 viewers and 388,000 in 18-49.

Q8- The Young Bucks vs. Penta & Eddie Kingston street fight for the tag titles - 808,000 viewers and 386,000 in 18-49.


----------



## NathanMayberry

What a lot of people seems to have forgotten is that with the move to TBS, AEWs competition goes from being nxt live to the reruns that tbs airs all day and every night.

It was brought up here to show that tbs was an upgrade and that TBS’s average viewers was over 1 million. With AEW being consistently below that, I really can’t see how Warner Media is going to be all that happy and want to keep a show that does worse than their reruns come renewal time.

Will Warner Media want to have Dynamite live or just air 4 episodes of Big Bang Theory which does the same if not better than what Dynamite does?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

Cody/QT the peak viewership, who'd a thunk it.

The Malakai debut/Andrade match QH had the biggest gains with +57,000 (+42,000 18-49).

BTW, on last week's show MJF vs. Sammy hit a million twice and was the peak in total viewers and 18-49. Britt/Rebel vs. Nyla/Vickie also topped a million viewers and 500k in the 18-49 at the end.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

NathanMayberry said:


> What a lot of people seems to have forgotten is that with the move to TBS, AEWs competition goes from being nxt live to the reruns that tbs airs all day and every night.
> 
> It was brought up here to show that tbs was an upgrade and that TBS’s average viewers was over 1 million. With AEW being consistently below that, I really can’t see how Warner Media is going to be all that happy and want to keep a show that does worse than their reruns come renewal time.
> 
> Will Warner Media want to have Dynamite live or just air 4 episodes of Big Bang Theory which does the same if it better than what Dynamite does?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Interesting point. I guess it depends on how much the syndication deal with TBS is costing Warner. 

Can't find that number specifically but Warner is paying billions of dollars over 5 years for the exclusive streaming rights to Big Bang Theory in the states for HBO Max, from the sounds of it the syndication deal on TBS is separate from the streaming one. 

AEW is almost certainly cheaper than that. So long as it stays relatively cheap, Warner will be happy to have something do the same or slightly less if it's costing them less. 









‘Big Bang Theory’ Sets Staggering Multi-Billion-Dollar HBO Max Streaming Deal


In what is easily a record-setting five-year deal, HBO Max has secured the exclusive domestic streaming rights to ‘The Big Bang Theory.’ As part of the pact with Warner Bros. Television…




www.hollywoodreporter.com


----------



## 3venflow

All Out is sold out! They could have run a 20,000+ seater for this show.

I wonder if they can get towards 9k for the Dynamite and Rampage events at the same building?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1413517729836015616


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*So like I said, Britt is a draw, even in awful matches:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1413519459843776514*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> All Out is sold out! They could have run a 20,000+ seater for this show.
> 
> I wonder if they can get towards 9k for the Dynamite and Rampage events at the same building?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1413517729836015616


nice one

expected… its all out after all


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *So like I said, Britt is a draw, even in awful matches:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1413519459843776514*


I guess that you're just going to conveniently ignore Cody Rhodes's segment doing really well here (even though he's been feuding with a lowcarder for months now).


----------



## rbl85

DammitChrist said:


> I guess that you're just going to conveniently ignore Cody Rhodes's segment doing really well here (even though he's been feuding with a lowcarder for months now).


Yep Cody with the biggest rating


----------



## 3venflow

Chicago is definitely in love with AEW.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1413528421477588997


----------



## RapShepard

For fucks sake is it okay to admit that they're doing fine, despite it not being a good thing they haven't actually gone up in a notable way in ratings or demos with the departure of NXT? Until proven other wise no, they aren't the bane of Warner Media and they're actively upset they have a deal with them. They aren't close to dying so get over it. And yes trying to pull DVR numbers to boost viewership is sad and an admittance that you really don't think their numbers that consistently have them as a top 10 show are great.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> For fucks sake is it okay to admit that they're doing fine, despite it not being a good thing they haven't actually gone up in a notable way in ratings or demos with the departure of NXT? Until proven other wise no, they aren't the bane of Warner Media and they're actively upset they have a deal with them. They aren't close to dying so get over it. And yes trying to pull DVR numbers to boost viewership is sad and an admittance that you really don't think their numbers that consistently have them as a top 10 show are great.


*No sir, you're either far right or far left, no centralism here! /s*


----------



## Prosper

The Legit DMD said:


> *I also said advertisers don't give a damn about DVRs because they exist to skip their ads.
> 
> 
> 
> SmackDown hit 4 mil last year with an NFL lead in. Even I said it was an anomaly, but it was still impressive that they managed to keep the majority of those viewers for that show. 2 mil is Smackdown's true audience and that's okay because it's doing much better than RAW. They'll drop to 1.8 occasionally and bounce back. AEW hit 1.2 specifically for the first unopposed episode and never got those viewers back. There's a major difference here.
> 
> 
> It's generally agreed upon by both fanatics and critics that they should stop advertising full cards because it directly tells people with certain favorites not to watch, which unnecessarily alienates their own audience. WWE is much smarter in this regard because they advertise like three matches and make you tune in to see what else is going on.
> 
> 
> This is conjecture. You have no data to suggest OC and Itoh are losing viewers because they've only been proven to enhance metrics, most notably merchandise sales. This is documented fact that was proven on multiple occasions. You're speculating based on the idea that the vocal minority dislikes them and that doesn't mean shit because they produce tangible results*.


-Is this not lateral though? SD hit 4 million viewers twice, they dropped back down to 2 million twice, then remained constant. AEW hit 1.2 million once, dropped back down to 850k-950k which is their version of their sweet spot, then remains constant with the occasional hit of a mil.

-Yes I have agreed with you and others that have mentioned this in the past. I'd be on board with advertising less of the card every week.

-It was an example Boss. A metaphor. I wasn't literally saying that OC was driving viewers away but giving an example of how audiences could have different tastes and how you can never know what will be a hit with people.



RapShepard said:


> For fucks sake is it okay to admit that they're doing fine, despite it not being a good thing they haven't actually gone up in a notable way in ratings or demos with the departure of NXT? Until proven other wise no, they aren't the bane of Warner Media and they're actively upset they have a deal with them. They aren't close to dying so get over it. And yes trying to pull DVR numbers to boost viewership is sad and an admittance that you really don't think their numbers that consistently have them as a top 10 show are great.


What I said was in context though. Was just giving a scenario of the DVR numbers in relation to live RAW numbers but never ignored AEW live vs RAW live, and people are jumping down my throat lol, I mean Jesus Christ. Personally, I think the numbers are fine but they could be better live.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prosper said:


> -Is this not lateral though? SD hit 4 million viewers twice, they dropped back down to 2 million twice, then remained constant. AEW hit 1.2 million once, dropped back down to 850k-950k which is their version of their sweet spot, then remains constant with the occasional hit of a mil.


*Not quite because of the underlying context of the 4 million viewers each time. The first time was for the debut of SmackDown on Fox which was hyped up by The Rock on social media, so of course that did numbers based on intrigue. Their true core audience was always 2 million though. They did 2 mil before the Fox premiere and they didn't steadily drop from 4 mil to 3.5 to 3 to 2*.*5 to 2. It was a sudden drop from 3.88 mil to 2.5, slowly stabilizing to around 2. The second time we already discussed with the NFL lead in, and they maintained over 3 million for that show.

AEW is different because they were already doing 800k to 952k before they went unopposed, so we were told that they would easily average a million with NXT out of the way. That clearly isn't the case. The fans who watched AEW back then are the same fans watching now. The core audience is smaller than you guys thought and NXT never split interest.*


----------



## Randy Lahey

Anyone know how often Rampage is going to be live?


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> What I said was in context though. Was just giving a scenario of the DVR numbers in relation to live RAW numbers but never ignored AEW live vs RAW live, and people are jumping down my throat lol, I mean Jesus Christ. Personally, I think the numbers are fine but they could be better live.


It's not even just you, but the new move to "but with DVR" in general. It's done to make Dynamite sound bigger and more popular, but really it just proves how hot it isn't despite what some say. The fact you can take 3 days of viewership for Dynamite and it's still not pass Raw's viewership isn't really the stat to pull out to to. Show how hot the show is or growing.


----------



## rbl85

The Legit DMD said:


> *Not quite because of the underlying context of the 4 million viewers each time. The first time was for the debut of SmackDown on Fox which was hyped up by The Rock on social media, so of course that did numbers based on intrigue. Their true core audience was always 2 million though. They did 2 mil before the Fox premiere and they didn't steadily drop from 4 mil to 3.5 to 3 to 2*.*5 to 2. It was a sudden drop from 3.88 mil to 2.5, slowly stabilizing to around 2. The second time we already discussed with the NFL lead in, and they maintained over 3 million for that show.
> 
> AEW is different because they were already doing 800k to 952k before they went unopposed, so we were told that they would easily average a million with NXT out of the way. That clearly isn't the case. The fans who watched AEW back then are the same fans watching now. The core audience is smaller than you guys thought and NXT never split interest.*


Usually +900K show were shows after or before PPV


----------



## NathanMayberry

RapShepard said:


> For fucks sake is it okay to admit that they're doing fine, despite it not being a good thing they haven't actually gone up in a notable way in ratings or demos with the departure of NXT? Until proven other wise no, they aren't the bane of Warner Media and they're actively upset they have a deal with them. They aren't close to dying so get over it. And yes trying to pull DVR numbers to boost viewership is sad and an admittance that you really don't think their numbers that consistently have them as a top 10 show are great.


I mean they'll be around forever as long as Tony Khan is willing to fund it. That's been the case from 2019 and its the case now. 

AEW's never going to face a financial death. They aren't around because they put up great wrestling or are profitable. They are around because Tony is happy to spend a couple of million every week to keep his wrestling dream going.


----------



## Mister Sinister

1. They opened with a strap match. This is unheard of. The booking of this in the opening is baffling. And the program with QT/Cody is heatless compared to something like Cody/Christian.
2. They had the Dork Order on tv, and they let them get in the world champion's spotlight. And Evil Uno is the Troll 2 of bad promos.
3. Inner Circle Jerk and Penisickle are a dud.
4. MJF has go-away heat, and the ratings showed it again with the decline this week.
5. Women in Q6/7 again.
6. Bucks main event-- 800k. What else can be said of this tag title reign, this cheap heat gimmick and the depth of the tag division's drawing capability despite having 16 teams on the roster.
7. It's time to take the title off Omega, and Hangman is not the guy with the name recognition and experience that they need to resolve the mess that has been this title reign with a guy who they never established with the American audience.
8. Andrade vs Sydal was the only good part of this show. Sydal is AEW's mvp of enhancement talent. He has been making everyone look like gold (Andrade, Christian, Omega).


----------



## RainmakerV2

Wait..the Bucks title match actually did LESS in 18-49 than a Dan Lambert promo? Lmao jesus


----------



## $Dolladrew$

NathanMayberry said:


> What a lot of people seems to have forgotten is that with the move to TBS, AEWs competition goes from being nxt live to the reruns that tbs airs all day and every night.
> 
> It was brought up here to show that tbs was an upgrade and that TBS’s average viewers was over 1 million. With AEW being consistently below that, I really can’t see how Warner Media is going to be all that happy and want to keep a show that does worse than their reruns come renewal time.
> 
> Will Warner Media want to have Dynamite live or just air 4 episodes of Big Bang Theory which does the same if not better than what Dynamite does?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What you're not taking into account is Turner is actively trying to change the image of TBS by adding new and original programming. They've got the new sitcom CHAD ,they have the new game show with Dwayne Wade called THE CUBE,they have the revamped WIPEOUT with john cena, they will have AEWs 2 wrestling shows plus the cody and brandi reality TV show coming up and they are still actively going to add to that. TBS was once the home of wrestling it can be again we will see how they do once they move over, I'm more in the opinion of it being a clean trade they won't lose viewers but I dont think they'll gain many either.


----------



## 3venflow

$Dollardrew$ said:


> What you're not taking into account is Turner is actively trying to change the image of TBS by adding new and original programming. They've got the new sitcom CHAD ,they have the new game show with Dwayne Wade called THE CUBE,they have the revamped WIPEOUT with john cena, they will have AEWs 2 wrestling shows plus the cody and brandi reality TV show coming up and they are still actively going to add to that.


And last September they committed $3.75 billion to an eight-year deal for MLB on TBS rights ($553m-per-year), which was +65% on the previous package. That'll include a new Tuesday night game.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

RapShepard said:


> For fucks sake is it okay to admit that they're doing fine, despite it not being a good thing they haven't actually gone up in a notable way in ratings or demos with the departure of NXT? Until proven other wise no, they aren't the bane of Warner Media and they're actively upset they have a deal with them. They aren't close to dying so get over it. And yes trying to pull DVR numbers to boost viewership is sad and an admittance that you really don't think their numbers that consistently have them as a top 10 show are great.


This is why @RapShepard is GOAT poster in this section imo.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RainmakerV2 said:


> Wait..the Bucks title match actually did LESS in 18-49 than a Dan Lambert promo? Lmao jesus


*This is why they open almost every show, because they know no one gives a shit about their main events. Cody just had to be the first thing fans saw after the pandemic.*


----------



## $Dolladrew$

3venflow said:


> And last September they committed $3.75 billion to an eight-year deal for MLB on TBS rights ($553m-per-year), which was +65% on the previous package. That'll include a new Tuesday night game.


Yeah Turner has been making an active effort to get new shows and change the image of being a reruns graveyard, AEW and wrestling will help that facelift as well.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *This is why they open almost every show, because they know no one gives a shit about their main events. Cody just had to be the first thing fans saw after the pandemic.*


Except the number of fans who stayed, cheered, and watched that thrilling main-event with the Young Bucks actually care about their matches 😂


----------



## Brad Boyd

RainmakerV2 said:


> Wait..the Bucks title match actually did LESS in 18-49 than a Dan Lambert promo? Lmao jesus


That old man has more charisma than those two nerds? Not surprised.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Brad Boyd said:


> That old man has more charisma than those two nerds? Not surprised.



Can't wait to hear the circles on this one.

"18-49 is all that matters!"

Dan Lambert promo outdraws 4 of their biggest acts in a title match main event in 18-49..

"Well. Ya see..what happened was uh.."


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> Can't wait to hear the circles on this one.
> 
> "18-49 is all that matters!"
> 
> Dan Lambert promo outdraws 4 of their biggest acts in a title match main event in 18-49..
> 
> "Well. Ya see..what happened was uh.."


Are you seriously going to use this number to downplay the popularity of the Young Bucks (despite being heels) when they generally hold up the viewers really well for multiple Dynamite episodes? What’s going to be your defense when they end up being highly rated again for the next Dynamite episodes? 😂


----------



## Klitschko

RapShepard said:


> For fucks sake is it okay to admit that they're doing fine, despite it not being a good thing they haven't actually gone up in a notable way in ratings or demos with the departure of NXT? Until proven other wise no, they aren't the bane of Warner Media and they're actively upset they have a deal with them. They aren't close to dying so get over it. And yes trying to pull DVR numbers to boost viewership is sad and an admittance that you really don't think their numbers that consistently have them as a top 10 show are great.


No sir. Either they are about to die any day now, or with DVR they are getting 100 million viewers. There is no room for the middle here.


----------



## RainmakerV2

DammitChrist said:


> Are you seriously going to use this number to downplay the popularity of the Young Bucks (despite being heels) when they generally hold up the viewers really well for multiple Dynamite episodes? What’s going to be your defense when they end up being highly rated again for the next Dynamite episodes? 😂


It's not just the Bucks, Penta and Eddie are supposed to be big deals too. Outdrawn by a guy hardly anyone knows spouting Cornette talking points for 10 minutes. Can't make this stuff up.


----------



## La Parka

Young Bucks are an act that really only needs to be seen once a month. Seeing the Young Bucks wrestle every single week is just overkill because it’s the same match every single week. Mix that in with their cartoonish heel tactics and them bringing out their undesirable friends like Cutler and the boring brothers and you have a complete unwatchable 20 mins of air time.


----------



## Rocking Robin

I don't think anybody can debate that DVR isn't a thing or viewing habits haven't changed, but the idea DVR numbers can be just tacked on to live viewership is questionable. 
When RIAA certification for music moved from counting physical sales to including streaming they used a ratio of 150 views equaling one unit of sale.
If stalwart aew fans had the perspective to realise DVR rates aren't equal to live numbers I don't think there would be a problem.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

RapShepard said:


> For fucks sake is it okay to admit that they're doing fine, despite it not being a good thing they haven't actually gone up in a notable way in ratings or demos with the departure of NXT? Until proven other wise no, they aren't the bane of Warner Media and they're actively upset they have a deal with them. They aren't close to dying so get over it. And yes trying to pull DVR numbers to boost viewership is sad and an admittance that you really don't think their numbers that consistently have them as a top 10 show are great.


Rap mate we don't accept that kind of well thought out logic in these parts, you either have to be 100% behind the show or 100% against it, there's no inbetween. If you like the show you're a loyalist if you have criticism of the show you're a hater, that's how it is.


----------



## Klitschko

La Parka said:


> Young Bucks are an act that really only needs to be seen once a month. Seeing the Young Bucks wrestle every single week is just overkill because it’s the same match every single week. Mix that in with their cartoonish heel tactics and them bringing out their undesirable friends like Cutler and the boring brothers and you have a complete unwatchable 20 mins of air time.


Fucking nailed it man. I never saw the Young Bucks before AEW. When I watched their first match with Lucha Brothers at DON19, and I was like Holy fucking shit, these guys are amazing. But then when they started to showcase that exact same match every single week on Dynamite I was like man fuck this.


----------



## Prosper

Y’all better stop talking shit about the Young Bucks lol


----------



## One Shed

Prosper said:


> Y’all better stop talking shit about the Young Bucks lol


They suck and yet somehow keep finding new ways to get dumber every week. Glad to see I was far from the only person who turned off the show before they came out.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prosper said:


> Y’all better stop talking shit about the Young Bucks lol


*What are they gonna do, put us in their bio? 😂*


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *What are they gonna do, put us in their bio? 😂*


Even better, the Young Bucks end up getting even more TV time soon, and they consequently get more wrestling fans to tune in for them too in spite of the complaints they receive


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Two Sheds said:


> They suck and yet somehow keep finding new ways to get dumber every week. Glad to see I was far from the only person who turned off the show before they came out.


*Like Cornette says, they gotta get their shit in and get it off of them before anyone else does it. Once we've seen it 7 times throughout the night, there's no reason to stay.*


----------



## Klitschko

The Legit DMD said:


> *Like Cornette says, they gotta get their shit in and get it off of them before anyone else does it. Once we've seen it 7 times throughout the night, there's no reason to stay.*


I will never forget when the Dark Order guy was passed out and they were dragging him up and jumping over his limp body so they could get their shit in. Great bosses right there. I can actually picture @DammitChrist chanting fight forever during the match, while the dude is on the floor like this lol. 

Just busting your balls a bit Dammit lol.


----------



## One Shed

The Legit DMD said:


> *Like Cornette says, they gotta get their shit in and get it off of them before anyone else does it. Once we've seen it 7 times throughout the night, there's no reason to stay.*


Weirdly enough, and hilariously to me, everyone is getting their shit in before the Buckaroos get a chance to start their routine. The audience has already seen everything 15 times, so why would they stick around for the middle schoolers to do it?

Deliciously ironic is the fact they tried to make a career out of stealing the spotlight from more talented people by doing high paced but ultimately dumb stuff that turned people off. Now they have people outsourcing them by doing even dumber stuff. How close are we to seeing the Buckaroos calling the young guys out for killing the business?


----------



## .christopher.

First time I saw the Bucks was in TNA as Generation Me if I remember correctly. I liked them at the time, but they were obviously more restricted in what they could do which they didn't like.

Less is more is a popular saying for a reason. They don't need to showcase their full repertoire of moves every match.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Jaxon said:


> genuine question, does this mean that WWE isn't doing as bad as people say also?


Absolutely. But personally I find wwe completely unwatchable both aesthetically and storyline wise. It’s far too glitzy and colourful for me and lacks atmosphere crowd wise…… AEW is far from amazing but I can watch it and enjoy it for the most part.


----------



## Klitschko

.christopher. said:


> First time I saw the Bucks was in TNA as Generation Me if I remember correctly. I liked them at the time, but they were obviously more restricted in what they could do which they didn't like.
> 
> Less is more is a popular saying for a reason. They don't need to showcase their full repertoire of moves every match.


I remember their feud with Motor City Machine Guns in TNA. Those were some great matches.


----------



## Not Lying

TD Stinger said:


> Q1: Cody Rhodes vs. QT Marshall, 994,000 viewers and 495,000 in 18-49.
> 
> Q2: Kenny Omega, Don Callis, The Dark Order, Doc Gallows & Frankie Kazarian and Adam Page/ Jim Ross sitdown with Darby Allin and Ethan Page. 954,000 viewers and 486,000 in 18-49.
> 
> Q3z FTR & Wardlow vs. Santana & Ortiz & Jake Hager with Tully Blanchard and Konnan. 883,000 viewers and 413,000 in 18-49
> 
> Q4 Chris Jericho/MJF segment and Britt Baker interview- 821,000 viewers and 388,000 in 18-49
> 
> Q5. Andrade vs. Matt Sydal, the debut of Malakai Black with Arn Anderson and Cody Rhodes- 878,000 viewers and 430,000 in 18-49.
> 
> Q6 Ricky Starks, Taz and Brian Cage and the beginning of Orange Cassidy & Kris Statlander vs. Blade & Bunny- 833,000 viewers and 384,000 in 18-49.
> 
> Q7-Archer and Dan Lambert Segment- 799,000 viewers and 388,000 in 18-49.
> 
> Q8- The Young Bucks vs. Penta & Eddie Kingston street fight for the tag titles - 808,000 viewers and 386,000 in 18-49.


Not enough star power in the 2nd hour, or at least not the right combination.
Bucks don't draw shit, these 6-man crapfests earlier this year killed the ratings too, i'm even sure i read Meltzer or someone reported that Bucks on average end up losing viewers, and this is another case. Bucks matches are a parody of wrestling. I am so over their crap, they milk their melodrama for FAR TOO LONG.


----------



## rbl85

The Definition of Technician said:


> Not enough star power in the 2nd hour, or at least not the right combination.
> *Bucks don't draw shit*, these 6-man crapfests earlier this year killed the ratings too, i'm even sure i read Meltzer or someone reported that Bucks on average end up losing viewers, and this is another case. Bucks matches are a parody of wrestling. I am so over their crap, they milk their melodrama for FAR TOO LONG.


Completely wrong Bucks often have the best 18-49 ratings


----------



## Klitschko

Not a big fan of the Bucks, but I also thought that the Bucks were usually good at drawing for AEW?


----------



## Not Lying

rbl85 said:


> Completely wrong Bucks often have the best 18-49 ratings


We have this week a perfect example of them having a promoted main evented that barely gained viewers and lost in the demo.

Look at Darby everytime he main evented he drew huge and had a significant impact pn ratings, look at Jungle Boy/Omega, AEW dynamites main events usually have a rating nump.
Nope, not when Bucks are in it. 6-man clucksterfucks and nonsense tag matches


----------



## Prosper

Two Sheds said:


> They suck and yet somehow keep finding new ways to get dumber every week. Glad to see I was far from the only person who turned off the show before they came out.





The Legit DMD said:


> *What are they gonna do, put us in their bio? 😂*


Lol I know you two hate them and to each their own, but personally I think they’re fire right now. Awesome tag title run so far for me.


----------



## rbl85

The Definition of Technician said:


> We have this week a perfect example of them having a promoted main evented that barely gained viewers and lost in the demo.
> 
> Look at Darby everytime he main evented he drew huge and had a significant impact pn ratings, look at Jungle Boy/Omega, AEW dynamites main events usually have a rating nump.
> Nope, not when Bucks are in it. 6-man clucksterfucks and nonsense tag matches


You take 1 week and make it a generality, that's stupid..

If i want i can find a week in which any big star of AEW didn't have a great rating


----------



## Mister Sinister

We're a long way away from Road Warriors and Harlem Heat.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Botchy SinCara said:


> You love to see it ..aew is growing and wwe falling ..I'm banking this time next year aew will be pass raw in ratings
> View attachment 104024


AEW 08.07.2020 - 715,000

AEW 07.07.2021 - 871,000

---

If you want to pretend that it's growth it's still very minimal. You're suggesting AEW will almost double it's audience in a year, how will they do that?

I do agree that RAW will continue to fall for a little bit but it'll bottom out eventually, it's not an achievement for AEW if RAW drops to 800k and AEW beats them though.



DammitChrist said:


> Yes, AEW is growing.


How so?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> How so?


they just got a tv deal in India and in South Africa - every viewer in either country is ‘growth’

guys should stop seeing ‘growth’ in a limited scope of ‘ratings in america’


----------



## DaSlacker

Chip Chipperson said:


> AEW 08.07.2020 - 715,000
> 
> AEW 07.07.2021 - 871,000
> 
> ---
> 
> If you want to pretend that it's growth it's still very minimal. You're suggesting AEW will almost double it's audience in a year, how will they do that?
> 
> I do agree that RAW will continue to fall for a little bit but it'll bottom out eventually, it's not an achievement for AEW if RAW drops to 800k and AEW beats them though.
> 
> 
> 
> How so?


What on cable or even network TV is doubling its live audience in 2021? Even NBA finals, Stanley Cup, MLB Finals are all at all time lows. 

9-1-1 has been consistently hovering around where it started but hasn't increased by much. 

The Resident started high, fell by half and stayed consistent. 

Duncanville started on 1.5 million before dropping until it reached half. Then it stayed there. 

The Masked Singer had a few episodes that popped unusually big numbers. It generally stays in the 5 - 8 million range, though on the whole gradually dropping. 

AEW's ceiling two years ago was 1.4 - 2.0 million. Due to audience fatigue - not just the AEW brand but wrestling in general - it is now lower. The growth comes from international deals, licensing, social media numbers. Still, there shouldn't be an obsession over rapid growth and one avenue. There's something to be said for retaining that core base.


----------



## Klitschko

LifeInCattleClass said:


> they just got a tv deal in India and in South Africa - every viewer in either country is ‘growth’
> 
> guys should stop seeing ‘growth’ in a limited scope of ‘ratings in america’


Wouldn't the new show Rampage also be a sign that they are growing? It's not like it's another you tube show. They will be getting money for the second show. 

Also their ratings are up this year compared to last when they are not stuck with that awful time slot, and their live attendance is doing fantastic as well. From what is posted in here, it looks like it's some of their highest attendance numbers ever that they will get this year. Add in the new deals all over the place, the video games and toys, and yea you can comfortably say they are growing slowly.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Klitschko said:


> Wouldn't the new show Rampage also be a sign that they are growing? It's not like it's another you tube show. They will be getting money for the second show.
> 
> Also their ratings are up this year compared to last when they are not stuck with that awful time slot, and their live attendance is doing fantastic as well. From what is posted in here, it looks like it's some of their highest attendance numbers ever that they will get this year. Add in the new deals all over the place, the video games and toys, and yea you can comfortably say they are growing slowly.


*You're confusing their core audience supporting the product with growth. These are the same people they've always had monetizing the product. That is good, but it's a separate issue. Their argument is that AEW is growing their audience, and that's false. If that were the case, we'd see a million a week, especially unopposed. These are the same Wednesday Night Wars numbers with no direct competition.*


----------



## rbl85

DaSlacker said:


> What on cable or even network TV is doubling its live audience in 2021? Even NBA finals, Stanley Cup, MLB Finals are all at all time lows.
> 
> 9-1-1 has been consistently hovering around where it started but hasn't increased by much.
> 
> The Resident started high, fell by half and stayed consistent.
> 
> Duncanville started on 1.5 million before dropping until it reached half. Then it stayed there.
> 
> The Masked Singer had a few episodes that popped unusually big numbers. It generally stays in the 5 - 8 million range, though on the whole gradually dropping.
> 
> *AEW's ceiling two years ago was 1.4 - 2.0 million.* Due to audience fatigue - not just the AEW brand but wrestling in general - it is now lower. The growth comes from international deals, licensing, social media numbers. Still, there shouldn't be an obsession over rapid growth and one avenue. There's something to be said for retaining that core base.


What ?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Klitschko said:


> Wouldn't the new show Rampage also be a sign that they are growing? It's not like it's another you tube show. They will be getting money for the second show.
> 
> Also their ratings are up this year compared to last when they are not stuck with that awful time slot, and their live attendance is doing fantastic as well. From what is posted in here, it looks like it's some of their highest attendance numbers ever that they will get this year. Add in the new deals all over the place, the video games and toys, and yea you can comfortably say they are growing slowly.


rampage might be a stretch - as i _think_ it might just be their normal fans tuning in except if they get some kinda run-on from Smackdown fans channel surfing - but can’t be sure, you might be right

but all the other stuff you mentioned - 100%


----------



## Brad Boyd

Prosper said:


> Lol I know you two hate them and to each their own, but personally I think they’re fire right now. Awesome tag title run so far for me.


Is it just me... Or does Matt Jackson have literally the most cringy, dorky looking face that just screams "go away heat"?

His voice... same deal lol The fuckin nerds in wrestling today. They never cease to amuse me and & make me wonder why standards in wrestling these days have gotten this low.


----------



## DaSlacker

rbl85 said:


> What ?


The amount that would watch wrestling on Wednesday night in late 2019. 2 million would be the potential unopposed number. 1.4 million was what they got with NXT on at the same time. Was always going to be down after that until it reached its range - 800,000 to 1.1 million. 

Progressing from there is more unlikely than ever because both the cable and pro wrestling audience is shrinking.


----------



## 3venflow

DaSlacker said:


> The growth comes from international deals, licensing, social media numbers. Still, there shouldn't be an obsession over rapid growth and one avenue. There's something to be said for retaining that core base.


I agree with this. WWE plays up its social media presence big time in its reports. A lot of younger fans will now skip shows but watch highlights on YouTube. IMPACT sometimes has videos on its channel that get more views than its entire TV viewership for a show.

Personally I think AEW's social media game is quite weak but if they get deals in India and such, the subscription counts will go up and up.

Live events and ticket sales are also important. On that front, their sales are really impressive for upcoming shows and will net AEW a good chunk of money. They've already eclipsed TNA on that front and are a much more popular 'on the road' product than TNA ever was.

Expecting AEW to buck the trend of the entire TV industry is pretty insane. Sports ratings were in free fall last year and AEW did well just to remain as consistent and stable as they did. More and more people are 'cord-cutting' and switching to streaming. An estimated 6 million households ended their cable subs in 2020.









Why Sports TV Ratings Will Likely Still Suffer In 2021


Sports TV ratings plummeted this year, and it doesn’t look like they’ll surge back 2021, either. The pandemic has likely changed viewing habits forever.




www.forbes.com


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> Expecting AEW to buck the trend of the entire TV industry is pretty insane. Sports ratings were in free fall last year and AEW did well just to remain as consistent and stable as they did. More and more people are 'cord-cutting' and switching to streaming. An estimated 6 million households ended their cable subs in 2020.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Sports TV Ratings Will Likely Still Suffer In 2021
> 
> 
> Sports TV ratings plummeted this year, and it doesn’t look like they’ll surge back 2021, either. The pandemic has likely changed viewing habits forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com


*This article was proven wrong at the start of the playoffs. The play-in game between the Warriors and Lakers did better than every game last year. *


----------



## DaSlacker

3venflow said:


> I agree with this. WWE plays up its social media presence big time in its reports. A lot of younger fans will now skip shows but watch highlights on YouTube. IMPACT sometimes has videos on its channel that get more views than its entire TV viewership for a show.
> 
> Personally I think AEW's social media game is quite weak but if they get deals in India and such, the subscription counts will go up and up.
> 
> Live events and ticket sales are also important. On that front, their sales are really impressive for upcoming shows and will net AEW a good chunk of money. They've already eclipsed TNA on that front and are a much more popular 'on the road' product than TNA ever was.
> 
> Expecting AEW to buck the trend of the entire TV industry is pretty insane. Sports ratings were in free fall last year and AEW did well just to remain as consistent and stable as they did. More and more people are 'cord-cutting' and switching to streaming. An estimated 6 million households ended their cable subs in 2020.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Sports TV Ratings Will Likely Still Suffer In 2021
> 
> 
> Sports TV ratings plummeted this year, and it doesn’t look like they’ll surge back 2021, either. The pandemic has likely changed viewing habits forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com


Good point about India. Making money from India isn't easy, as TNA found out. But it is a good way to boost your social media numbers. As far as I'm aware, Mexico is another place AEW has yet to make inroads. Ditto Japan and Australia, which are places with financial potential. Expanding will only boost their profile as a media brand. 

Also worth noting they have yet to tour outside of the USA. That opens up not just meet an greets and conventions but tie-in's and mainstream media appearances. 

Dare I say there could also be the option for Khan to financially invest in the likes of Impact, NWA at some point. 

Having a set number of viewers on a Wednesday night doesn't tell the whole story in today's marketplace.


----------



## Prosper

Brad Boyd said:


> Is it just me... Or does Matt Jackson have literally the most cringy, dorky looking face that just screams "go away heat"?
> 
> His voice... same deal lol The fuckin nerds in wrestling today. They never cease to amuse me and & make me wonder why standards in wrestling these days have gotten this low.


Lol I mean that's just your opinion, standards haven't fallen it's just that people enjoy whatever they enjoy. When I look at the Bucks I see dickhead heels that need to get their asses beat ASAP.


----------



## Brad Boyd

Prosper said:


> Lol I mean that's just your opinion, standards haven't fallen it's just that people enjoy whatever they enjoy. When I look at the Bucks I see dickhead heels that need to get their asses beat ASAP.


Personally when I see guys like Chuck Taylor, Matt Jackson heck even Kevin Owens, they don't resemble the classic wrestler look at all. They don't look like stars. Standards have fallen because the wrestling audience has fallen and, changed too. But yeah that is just my opinion at the end of the day.

We can't really go back to the peak days of wrestling and see anyone that resembled a Gargano, O'reilly, Chuck Taylor & OC. They likely would've have had the chance to only make it to a dark match. And I think these new guys they hire and push is apart of the reason why wrestling won't really become relevant & commercially popular again. That and many different factors that are missing in wrestling. Lack of storylines and good ones, lack of selling and psychology in matches etc. The list goes on.


----------



## Prosper

Brad Boyd said:


> Personally when I see guys like Chuck Taylor, Matt Jackson heck even Kevin Owens, they don't resemble the classic wrestler look at all. They don't look like stars. Standards have fallen because the wrestling audience has fallen and, changed too. But yeah that is just my opinion at the end of the day.
> 
> We can't really go back to the peak days of wrestling and see anyone that resembled a Gargano, O'reilly, Chuck Taylor & OC. They likely would'nt have had the chance to only make it to a dark match. And I think these new guys they hire and push is apart of the reason why wrestling won't really become relevant & commercially popular again. That and many different factors that are missing in wrestling. Lack of storylines and good ones, lack of selling and psychology in matches etc. The list goes on.


I mean you have to sign who's available. They can't just go out signing a bunch of bodybuilders who can't do a simple Irish Whip just because they look good when they're oiled up. Even back in the golden days, you would have talent that didn't have the "Triple H look" that so many people in the IWC look at as the perfect pro wrestling cosmetic appearance. Mankind was fat AF and not even close to being in shape but he was over. Did he look like a "star"? I wouldn't say so, but that's subjective. Kevin Owens was and is very over despite his looks. Talents don't have to fit a certain mold when it comes to their appearance it's fine to have variety in body types. I wouldn't say the look of a pro wrestler is the reason or even part of the reason why it won't reach commercial popularity again. It's more because of the volume of content available now, and if it's not that, the cable ratings won't show who is and isn't watching at a grand scale regardless.

Storylines are more or less the same as they were before. You just have a pool of talents that are in conflict for championships. If you think back to whatever your favorite storylines were during the Attitude Era, how are they that different fundamentally now? The only difference was star power. Selling and psychology are still very much intact I would say. Kickouts and false finishes happen a lot more often these days but when I watch a match I usually know the story going into it and can follow the story being told within the match itself. Not a knock against you but I honestly feel like these are just things people say when they choose to criticize but most wouldn't be able to give real examples of stories not being told within matches that matter.


----------



## Brad Boyd

Prosper said:


> Storylines are more or less the same as they were before. You just have a pool of talents that are in conflict for championships. If you think back to whatever your favorite storylines were during the Attitude Era, how are they that different fundamentally now? The only difference was star power. Selling and psychology are still very much intact I would say. Kickouts and false finishes happen a lot more often these days but when I watch a match I usually know the story going into it and can follow the story being told within the match itself. Not a knock against you but I honestly feel like these are just things people say when they choose to criticize but most wouldn't be able to give real examples of stories not being told within matches that matter.


Definitely not the same. Compare AEW's undercard to 1999 WWF for example. Undercard talents like the Sydals and Varsity Blondes get featured enough when they're on TV and they have no gimmicks and angles. Guys like Crash Holly, Al Snow and Droz heck even Chaz from the headbangers when he did his thing, the writers made better use of their time. And the storylines are recycled from the attitude era, ie Inner Circle and Pinnacle bubbly truck thing. These were innovative ideas at the time.

Today Mox and MJF would get their content reviewed by someone like Russo or Kreski and probably get their shit more over than they are now. I question also the TV thing because of a rare case like Game of Thrones doing 10 million in their last season. If they had guys like Rock and Austin on Tv today, no doubt they'd be gettting to close to those numbers. But like I said, I think a lot of the elements have to be place for a company AEW to go further. Hiring less average joes and more compelling humans, would help the cause by a bit.


----------



## 3venflow

The Legit DMD said:


> This article was proven wrong at the start of the playoffs. The play-in game between the Warriors and Lakers did better than every game last year.


Let's not ignore stats and trends because of an anomaly or two. With anything, you have to look at averages over a period of time, not one great performance (ie. AEW did over a million several times recently, but that's not its average rating). Live sports ratings are going down on average. Most categories on TV are the same. Why wouldn't they be when there is streaming, DVR and social media (ie. RAW's top 10 moments for last Monday is currently on 1.6m views. The show itself drew 1.472m)?

NBA is down 45% on ABC over the past decade.

“The NBA’s shrinking broadcast audience coincides with an even more vertiginous drop-off among the members of the core target demo. Two years ago, ABC’s NBA coverage averaged 1.47 million adults 18-49 per game, a turnout that shrunk to 1.16 million in 2019-20 and fell all the way to 993,000 fans in the under-50 set this season. In other words, nearly one-third (32 percent) of ABC’s dollar demo has wandered off in the course of two years.”

Down 25% in the past two years.









NBA TV Audience Down 25% as Expanded Playoffs Cast a Wider Net


The NBA over the last two seasons has lost a quarter of its TV audience, and while it will be some time before any year-to-year comparisons can be made without an intervening asterisk, the shrinkin…




www.sportico.com





Even NFL ratings are down 20% from 2015 as of May 2021. And down from last year.

“across all of the NFL’s broadcast partners – CBS, ESPN, Fox, NBC and the league-owned NFL Network – games averaged about 14.9 million viewers, (versus) 16.5 million from a year ago per a Hollywood Reporter review of Nielsen ratings.”

Ratings are dying for most things and 6m households cut off cable in 2020, which means 6m fewer possible viewers for AEW or RAW. Of course there will be exceptions and anomalies, but it's just a fact, so why should pro wrestling be any different? AEW should be happy to remain in this stable state they are back in on Weds nights, because the TV industry is only heading one way and that's down. Inevitably, if things don't change, AEW will probably be on HBO Max in x amount of years.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Brad Boyd said:


> Definitely not the same. Compare AEW's undercard to 1999 WWF for example. Undercard talents like the Sydals and Varsity Blondes get featured enough when they're on TV and they have no gimmicks and angles. Guys like Crash Holly, Al Snow and Droz heck even Chaz from the headbangers when he did his thing, the writers made better use of their time. And the storylines are recycled from the attitude era, ie Inner Circle and Pinnacle bubbly truck thing. These were innovative ideas at the time.
> 
> Today Mox and MJF would get their content reviewed by someone like Russo or Kreski and probably get their shit more over than they are now. I question also the TV thing because of a rare case like Game of Thrones doing 10 million in their last season. If they had guys like Rock and Austin on Tv today, no doubt they'd be gettting to close to those numbers. But like I said, I think a lot of the elements have to be place for a company AEW to go further. Hiring less average joes and more compelling humans, would help the cause by a bit.


Lack of compelling characters is what makes me struggle to truly invest in modern wrestling, like for example, what characters are the Young Bucks supposed to be? "Arrogant dickheads" isn't a character, it's a trait of a character, but if a heel's character is purely being a dickhead then they're pretty shit heels, there's gotta be more depth and more layers.


----------



## zorori

3venflow said:


> AEW will probably be on HBO Max in x amount of years.


It kind of feels that way with people using a VPN + Fite to avoid the breaks. I wonder what the Fite subscription numbers are like for AEW Plus.


----------



## KrillinColeGOAT

Great numbers for AEW all things considered. Tony Khan's long-term booking is paying off.


----------



## Brad Boyd

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Lack of compelling characters is what makes me struggle to truly invest in modern wrestling, like for example, what characters are the Young Bucks supposed to be? "Arrogant dickheads" isn't a character, it's a trait of a character, but if a heel's character is purely being a dickhead then they're pretty shit heels, there's gotta be more depth and more layers.


And what do Bucks do every week? Cut brief promos and have 20 minute matches every week? Aew is a workrate based company. Who needs characters and gimmicks (let alone compelling humans with actual charisma and personality) when you have nerds spamming superkicks for 20 mins every week. I was expecting them to have more promo time with Good brothers and Omega, but AEW dropped the ball with that and they're spraying guys in the eyes every week.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Lack of compelling characters is what makes me struggle to truly invest in modern wrestling, like for example, what characters are the Young Bucks supposed to be? "Arrogant dickheads" isn't a character, it's a trait of a character, but if a heel's character is purely being a dickhead then they're pretty shit heels, there's gotta be more depth and more layers.


Not comparing them, because that would be absurd but what was The Rocks character besides arrogant dickhead when he was a singles heel? The guy is a killer on the mic, has mountains of charisma, great catchphrases, has the look, and is good in the ring but I mean I'd be hard pressed to describe his character beyond just being an amazing arrogant dickhead. What's his gimmick?

Again not saying he's anywhere near on the same level but even Omega's delusional 80's cokehead who thinks he's the end boss in an anime character seems more defined as a character than The Rock wearing shiny shirts, spouting catchphrases and raising his eyebrow.


----------



## kingfrass44

KrillinColeGOAT said:


> c





Rocking Robin said:


> I don't think anybody can debate that DVR isn't a thing or viewing habits haven't changed, but the idea DVR numbers can be just tacked on to live viewership is questionable.
> When RIAA certification for music moved from counting physical sales to including streaming they used a ratio of 150 views equaling one unit of sale.
> If stalwart aew fans had the perspective to realise DVR rates aren't equal to live numbers I don't think there would be a problem.


The wrong comparison 
DVR It has no value
DVR NO streaming


----------



## TD Stinger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415071773515821061
Another instant sellout wouldn't surprise me.


----------



## 3venflow

@TD Stinger I'd be shocked if it sells out as fast as All Out did since the place holds well over 20,000 (not sure what the capacity will be after production etc.), which is huge for AEW. If they do sell this out though, it'll be monumental since their current record is 14,129 for Dynamite #1.


----------



## TD Stinger

3venflow said:


> @TD Stinger I'd be shocked if it sells out as fast as All Out did since the place holds well over 20,000 (not sure what the capacity will be after production etc.), which is huge for AEW. If they do sell this out though, it'll be monumental since their current record is 14,129 for Dynamite #1.


I believe the capacity they're setting up is 17,000. I wouldn't be shocked if it's a quick sellout as this just feels like a very that people will flock to with the idea of "I have to be at the 1st one of these shows."


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

3venflow said:


> @TD Stinger I'd be shocked if it sells out as fast as All Out did since the place holds well over 20,000 (not sure what the capacity will be after production etc.), which is huge for AEW. If they do sell this out though, it'll be monumental since their current record is 14,129 for Dynamite #1.


Pretty sure I heard that with the setup they were looking to get 17000 for Arthur Ashe. Those were the high end estimates.

Edit: lol, should have just looked down one message before responding.


----------



## Martyn

I'd have to say that those sell outs and healthy crowds arent that bad for a 't shirt company thats losing their audience'.

Either way, those discussions about their lack of success or profits are laughable when you look at their wallet. If you would compare Khan's resources to the barking users of the most active section of this board, it took them like buying a burger for us to get the whole thing off the ground, but yeah, keep hating in bold letters. They're here to stay and entertain for years to come. :>


----------



## 3venflow

AEW718 is presale code for Grand Slam if anyone wants a ticket. There's currently a big queue for them at Ticketmaster.


----------



## 3venflow

They're selling like hotcakes.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415315444588756999


----------



## RapShepard

1 million viewers and .34 demo


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> 1 million viewers and .34 demo


*Did you mean to put this in the guessing thread?*


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> *Did you mean to put this in the guessing thread?*


I didn't feel like searching lol


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> I didn't feel like searching lol


*I bumped it for you 😂*


----------



## rbl85

1 million for this week ?

I think they will do around the same rating than the last 2 weeks.


----------



## Klitschko

They will get around 880k. That's my prediction. Card looks like it was made more for the hardcore fans, rather then casuals. I am excited though for the Darby match, and the Cage/Starks match. Should be great.


----------



## DammitChrist

Klitschko said:


> They will get around 880k. That's my prediction. Card looks like it was made more for the hardcore fans, rather then casuals. I am excited though for the Darby match, and the Cage/Starks match. Should be great.


Yea, it's best to have low expectations anyway (even though the show will likely be fun as heck).


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Klitschko said:


> They will get around 880k. That's my prediction. Card looks like it was made more for the hardcore fans, rather then casuals. I am excited though for the Darby match, and the Cage/Starks match. Should be great.


*I have faith in Darby to boost numbers, but they should do his match early before game 4 of the NBA Finals to maximize viewership.*


----------



## rbl85

The Legit DMD said:


> *I have faith in Darby to boost numbers, but they should do his match early before game 4 of the NBA Finals to maximize viewership.*


Game 4 is tonight ?

How many match do they need XD


----------



## Prosper

rbl85 said:


> Game 4 is tonight ?
> 
> How many match do they need XD


Best out of 7


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Interesting - new york was always seen as the ’what‘s hot‘ town by vince

well, seems aew is


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415425504031776772


----------



## Klitschko

I know this is the AEW thread, but since you guys are on top of this stuff. Do any of you know what the ticket sales have been for RAW and Smackdown? I am kind of interested to know how much they sold for next weeks RAW, which will be the first show back with fans.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Klitschko said:


> I know this is the AEW thread, but since you guys are on top of this stuff. Do any of you know what the ticket sales have been for RAW and Smackdown? I am kind of interested to know how much they sold for next weeks RAW, which will be the first show back with fans.





https://twitter.com/WrestleTix



This guy makes an awesome job tracking AEW and WWE ticket sales.


----------



## Klitschko

ProjectGargano said:


> https://twitter.com/WrestleTix
> 
> 
> 
> This guy makes an awesome job tracking AEW and WWE ticket sales.


Cool. Thx, I appreciate it.


----------



## Prosper

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Interesting - new york was always seen as the ’what‘s hot‘ town by vince
> 
> well, seems aew is
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415425504031776772


Thats awesome, I’ll never get a chance to hit a PPV or big show if they keep selling out in hours


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Should be aiming for 900k viewers tonight


----------



## NathanMayberry

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Interesting - new york was always seen as the ’what‘s hot‘ town by vince
> 
> well, seems aew is
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415425504031776772


A show with cheaper tickets sells more than a show with more expensive tickets? SHOCKING! Better whip out our dicks and start making predictions of how its gonna be Raw in whatever ratings measure we turn to once Live + 3 days stops equaling a big number.


----------



## ProjectGargano

More than 8k sold today for Grand Slam.


----------



## 3venflow

So the All Out and Grand Slam pre-sales sold more tickets than any TNA or ECW show in history, basically. This company remains something of a phenomenon for having a hardcore base.


----------



## RoganJosh

3venflow said:


> So the All Out and Grand Slam pre-sales sold more tickets than any TNA or ECW show in history, basically. This company remains something of a phenomenon for having a hardcore base.


It appears that they have gained more of of following during the pandemic. I don't remember them shifting this many tickets for the shows pre-pandemic.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415767923059212294

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## La Parka

Darby’s a draw, yet again.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Is that a total viewership average or just saying they hit over 1 mil at some point?


----------



## 3venflow

The show deserved a high rating and got it by the looks of things, even with the second hour up against the NBA final. That's the first time they've hit the million since May 5th and the demo is what they'll be really happy about since that's 0.05 higher than anything they've done since May.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415768846565355526


----------



## EmbassyForever

This is huge


----------



## RainmakerV2

I mean that's a humongous number especially against the finals. I'm pretty surprised. Good for them.


----------



## rich110991

Get in!!!!


----------



## 3venflow

NBA finals averaged 7.38m and 2.45 in the 18-49 on ABC for those wondering. Hour one, which is what Dynamite was against, did 7.057m (2.3 in 18-49).


----------



## El Hammerstone

Well done AEW


----------



## Klitschko

Damn, not bad at all. Great job AEW. Great card, plus Darby is a draw.


----------



## Erik.

That is really really impressive.

Good for them.


----------



## One Shed

Great number. Now I just need to find time to watch it.


----------



## Joe Gill

having a loud crowd that is into every match always helps... casual fans are more likely to keep watching if they sense a match or segment is important based on crowd reaction. the crowd was hyped last night... brought lots of energy for the show... now compare that to an empty arena... naturally fans will be more likely to watch when there is excitement in the building.


----------



## Joe Gill

aew has a lot of work to do to become a truly great show... but its still much better than raw... glad that they beat raw in the male 18-49 demo... that is clearly the demo that aew is targeting....now its only a matter of time before aew starts beating raw in other demos.


----------



## TD Stinger

Far better than what I thought they would do. Very impressive.


----------



## Mr316

Great number.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Great number. It was a stacked card. Moxley made his return. Darby and Page ‘s feud that was built for months in AEW (and I guess years accounting elsewhere) has their big match (plus you knew Sting was going to be there). Team Taz implosion with a title match between Cage and Starks. The Adam Page interview after last week where he fought off The Elite with Dark Order to begin setting up his match with Omega. Even something like Christian/Hardy would have some appeal for older fans.

This was probably one of the most stacked Dynamite cards ever. Not because one singular big match, but a string of semi-big matches that all felt important. It keeps the viewers engaged.

It’s good that a lot of people watched because it ended up being a top quality show.


----------



## DaSlacker

👏 👏 👏 AEW


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415773169797959682

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PavelGaborik

That is incredibly impressive when you consider the finals. I was expecting around 800k


----------



## omaroo

Wow bloody amazing number didn't expect it if I'm being honest!! 

Next week does look a much weaker card. So we could see rating around 900k which would still be good despite what a certain minority might say.


----------



## A PG Attitude

NathanMayberry said:


> A show with cheaper tickets sells more than a show with more expensive tickets? SHOCKING! Better whip out our dicks and start making predictions of how its gonna be Raw in whatever ratings measure we turn to once Live + 3 days stops equaling a big number.


Price doesn't dictate demand quality does. If fans know they can expect a solid show they will buy tickets. There's a reason bands like Metallica can sell out shows with 200 dollar ticket prices. WWE if they pulled their finger out would have no problem filling arenas.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Didn't RAW do a. 43 in the 18-49?


----------



## Rocking Robin

Props to aew this week. It has proved a lot of doubters wrong myself included


----------



## The XL 2

More guys like Darby being featured, less Bucks and AEW can grow.


----------



## La Parka

The XL 2 said:


> More guys like Darby being featured, less Bucks and AEW can grow.


yup.

every week the ratings show that the bucks are not a main event act.


----------



## Klitschko

Doesn't matter if it's AEW, or WWE. Having a full crowd back just brings a different feel to a show.


----------



## Aedubya

An absolute Ace of a serve


----------



## DammitChrist

Yay, it's nice to see them grow some more 



#BadNewsSanta said:


> Great number. It was a stacked card. Moxley made his return. Darby and Page ‘s feud that was built for months in AEW (and I guess years accounting elsewhere) has their big match (plus you knew Sting was going to be there). Team Taz implosion with a title match between Cage and Starks. The Adam Page interview after last week where he fought off The Elite with Dark Order to begin setting up his match with Omega. Even something like Christian/Hardy would have some appeal for older fans.
> 
> This was probably one of the most stacked Dynamite cards ever. Not because one singular big match, but a string of semi-big matches that all felt important. It keeps the viewers engaged.
> 
> It’s good that a lot of people watched because it ended up being a top quality show.


Dude, you mentioned all of that, and that's without even mentioning the Cody Rhodes/Malakai Black segment or the Britt Baker promo! It really was a stacked show on paper


----------



## Erik.

We all know the real draw.


----------



## Ayres

This is big for AEW. Props from a day 1 fan of theirs. AEW has been on a roll these last couple of weeks. Elevation to Dynamite was top notch this week. Look forward to them selling out NY


----------



## Botchy SinCara

I was expecting a fall from last week with the finals but I'm happy to be wrong..


Darby might just be a draw ...


----------



## The XL 2

Their were over 10 million people watching at the peak of the Monday Night Wars. Those people didn't just go away. If you give them something they want, they'll come back. Wrestling fans are loyal and their are a shit ton of them. 1 million is a good number, but that's just scratching the surface of what they can do. Hopefully they don't get complacent.


----------



## Erik.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415792581909172225


----------



## rich110991

So if AEW beat RAW in the demo, is it still not competition? 👀


----------



## RoganJosh

Erik. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415792581909172225


The good news just keeps coming. This company is a phenomenon, who would have thought they would reach such levels within two years, and during the course of a global pandemic? Looking at ticket sales and television numbers it's clear that they're going to be around for a long time.


----------



## Martyn

Back to the crowds, their original timeslot and here we are - they beated Raw in the demo, over million viewers and landed 1st cable. Amazing job guys! 

Reading those posts here from a few weeks ago about them "losing half of their audience at midnight on fridays and the product needs a major overhaul" got old veeeery quickly. :>


----------



## SPCDRI

RAW FEARS YUKA


----------



## yeahright2

Ratings are in, and we have a winner of the weekly game 
AEW Ratings prediction game

@sim8 won this week.. But it wasn´t that close to the actual number.

It was a good number, nobody expected them to go above 1 Million, but I´d be more impressed if it was just a regular Dynamite and not a special event like Fyter Fest.. Now the trick is to keep those viewers


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Darby exceeded expectations. Now we know that even the NBA finals on an excuse if they can hit over a million going head to head in the second hour.*


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Honestly seems like the pandemic did halt their momentum a bit ..they did a great job with the hand they were delt but they are picking right up where they left off ...

Also hasn't Cody not been a feature or announced anytime they hit over a million ?


----------



## Martyn

The pandemic definitely slowed them down a lot. Tons of people still dont take them seriously, even though it's the hottest company around ever since they started over. Imagine them having shows like this for the last 18 months. The perception would be different.

On the other hand, pandemic shifted the buisness completely. Theyve made alliances with Impact, NWA and New Japan. NJPW probably still wouldnt like to cooperate if they wouldnt struggle so much trough the crisis. WWE fired tons of amazing talent that otherwise perhaps wouldnt go anywhere.

Luckily Khan is smart and knows what hes doing. He didnt took a step back and simply waited it over. Hes been building up stars and adding shows with tons of content. And its paying off. Ricky freaking Stars comes out to a sold out arena, probably wrestling for the first tome in front of so many people and everybody knew who he was. Amazing job.


----------



## DaSlacker

The XL 2 said:


> Their were over 10 million people watching at the peak of the Monday Night Wars. Those people didn't just go away. If you give them something they want, they'll come back. Wrestling fans are loyal and their are a shit ton of them. 1 million is a good number, but that's just scratching the surface of what they can do. Hopefully they don't get complacent.


You're talking about the days of VHS, Motorola Startac and N64. Plus the competition between Raw and Nitro, when they were both good in 1996, 1997 and 1998, created a situation that benefitted both. Back then something like Lethal Weapon and Die Hard, despite being released a decade earlier, could bring in 5 million viewers with ease. Just a different world in terms of entertainment consumption. 

These days, in addition to other TV channels, there is just too much competition: Netflix and its like, online games, smartphone apps, other online activities. TV wrestling is even competing with itself due to 7 day DVR and illegal streams. 

They could always do better. Definitely. As long as Zombie Night Raw is doing upwards of 2 million viewers there is always room for improvement! But unless they find their Hogan vs Andre and put it on TNT, then I can't see the number being close to comparable to the late 90's.


----------



## Algernon

Fantastic number any way you spin it. Hell drawing 900 thousand wouldve been a great number. It's the middle of summer and they drew a million. Going up against a weak ass finals instead of going against a Nets/Clippers or Nets/Lakers finals doesnt hurt either. 
I expect them to come close or maybe exceed their viewership record for the Arthur Ashe stadium show. Not all Dynamites are equal but when they build and hype up a single show they see a boost.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Great number especially considering going against the NBA Finals. Shows have been very strong since the Saturday Night one which featured Jungle Boy/Kenny Omega.


----------



## Chan Hung

La Parka said:


> Darby’s a draw, yet again.


This. He's had a great presence, looked strong. Too bad AEW can't do the same for for MJF, Jungle Boy, Hangman Page, Wardlow, etc.


----------



## bdon

Botchy SinCara said:


> Honestly seems like the pandemic did halt their momentum a bit ..they did a great job with the hand they were delt but they are picking right up where they left off ...
> 
> Also hasn't Cody not been a feature or announced anytime they hit over a million ?


Cody was also heavily featured with 20+ minutes worth of airtime when AEW was in the 650k range. Yes, it was a pandemic, but the minute he stopped his weekly challenge BS and stopped being so heavily featured, 750k became the norm.

Fact is Cody fucking sucks, and not many are going to enjoy his WWE bullshit.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

TD Stinger said:


> Far better than what I thought they would do. Very impressive.


*Told you this would do way better and it was better than I thought.*


----------



## rich110991

bdon said:


> Cody was also heavily featured with 20+ minutes worth of airtime when AEW was in the 650k range. Yes, it was a pandemic, but the minute he stopped his weekly challenge BS and stopped being so heavily featured, 750k became the norm.
> 
> Fact is Cody fucking sucks, and not many are going to enjoy his WWE bullshit.


Cody’s fucking awesome 😂🔥


----------



## Botchy SinCara

I was looking back ..it seems Darby was in the main event anytime they went over a million ...if this is true ..it may be time to atleast think about him being in the title picture


----------



## Chan Hung

omaroo said:


> Wow bloody amazing number didn't expect it if I'm being honest!!
> 
> Next week does look a much weaker card. So we could see rating around 900k which would still be good despite what a certain minority might say.


next week looks awful. but usually the awful shows on paper do well on camera. go figure.


----------



## Chan Hung

Botchy SinCara said:


> I was looking back ..it seems Darby was in the main event anytime they went over a million ...if this is true ..it may be time to atleast think about him being in the title picture


Darby is one of their only properly treated homegrown star. unlike mjf, hangman, wardlow, jungle boy...darby is getting the right treatment and around a former star in Sting. I honestly forgot he was not the TNT champion and realized it was Miro lmfao.


----------



## Chan Hung

Joe Gill said:


> having a loud crowd that is into every match always helps... casual fans are more likely to keep watching if they sense a match or segment is important based on crowd reaction. the crowd was hyped last night... brought lots of energy for the show... now compare that to an empty arena... naturally fans will be more likely to watch when there is excitement in the building.


This is true. They angle of the fan cam was well done by AEW. Lets see how Raw and Smackdown crowds compare lol


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Yeah, Darby being around Sting definitely has helped get Darby exposure, which he does capitalize on with his crazy daredevil style.

It's actually utilizing someone like Sting correctly. Using him to make Darby a star, and he doesn't even ever have to actually face Darby because Darby's already essentially gotten a rub. The great thing is it means Sting can put someone else over in a feud/match at some point opposing him- when they figure the right person for that. Which in turn can lead to a big match between that person and Darby down the line.

(They could have Darby vs. Sting with Darby going over, but Darby doesn't really need that at this point. He's already basically a made man).


----------



## $Dolladrew$

RainmakerV2 said:


> I mean that's a humongous number especially against the finals. I'm pretty surprised. Good for them.


I may see you as a detractor but I've given you props for making positive posts before and this is another one of those cases.

If the loyalists could admit when things suck, and the detractors could admit when stuff goes well we wouldn't see the shitstorms we see.......but that's just wishing lol,cheers anyway.


----------



## sideon

Of course it was over a million. AEW can draw a million when it's a themed show, the problem is that AEW can't draw a million when it's a regular episode of Dynamite. Once AEW can consistently draw over a million when there's nothing special planned then that's when it'll be progress. They're going to get a million next week since it's part 2 of Fyter Fest, plus there are going to be a couple of debuts since the 90 day non competes have now expired for people like Billie & Peyton.


----------



## DammitChrist

bdon said:


> Cody was also heavily featured with 20+ minutes worth of airtime when AEW was in the 650k range. Yes, it was a pandemic, but the minute he stopped his weekly challenge BS and stopped being so heavily featured, 750k became the norm.
> 
> Fact is Cody fucking sucks, and not many are going to enjoy his WWE bullshit.


Dude, this is the 2nd week in a row that Cody Rhodes was part of a really good number while involved in a big segment. 

Hell, his match/segment apparently had the highest number of viewers last week even though you (wrongfully) kept telling us that “nobody” cares about the guy.

Quit trying to spread your false and twisted narrative (that basically stems from your irrational hatred for the man) about Cody here. 

It’s not even accurate at this point.


----------



## MoxleyMoxx

Botchy SinCara said:


> I was looking back ..it seems Darby was in the main event anytime they went over a million ...if this is true ..it may be time to atleast think about him being in the title picture


they've done million+ rating 4 times this year. Darby was in 3 of them. (vs. Jungle Boy, vs. Hardy, vs. Page)

the only one he wasn't a part of was Blood & Guts.


----------



## RapShepard

yeahright2 said:


> Ratings are in, and we have a winner of the weekly game
> AEW Ratings prediction game
> 
> @sim8 won this week.. But it wasn´t that close to the actual number.
> 
> It was a good number, nobody expected them to go above 1 Million, but I´d be more impressed if it was just a regular Dynamite and not a special event like Fyter Fest.. Now the trick is to keep those viewers


Give me my win I predicted a million lol


----------



## yeahright2

RapShepard said:


> Give me my win I predicted a million lol


Yep. You totally did. I stand corrected and bow my head in shame 

AEW Ratings prediction game


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Give me my win I predicted a million lol


*Let me get half of the prize money since I bumped the thread for you 😂*


----------



## Aedubya

As usual, WrestlingInc not very positive about the rating - not even mentioning the comparison to RAW


----------



## Botchy SinCara




----------



## AboutDatBiz619

Fantastic rating


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Surprised to see the quarterly hours so soon.

Interesting that they started with a match that had an above average quarter (compared to average for Wednesday shows which probably around 700-900k), then dropped to a more normal number for the 2nd quarter w/ Andrade and the Cage/Starks match.

But then they get into the promo/segment-heavy part of the show and the numbers go through the roof. They maintained around 1.1-1.2 viewers for three quarters, which is really impressive. That's nearly half the show. Dropped big when it started getting into mostly matches again and looks like Darby/Page didn't really recover anything. However it ended above the start of the show, which is still good (and ended above a million).

I don't follow NBA, but it was the second hour of AEW it was up against, right? Makes those middle quarter numbers even more impressive.

Edit: Also, Britt's quarter highest of the night. She might actually be a draw, which is great to see because she's easily the best all around woman from either company.


----------



## 3venflow

Hour two doing those numbers against the NBA is interesting, as everything would normally point to them struggling more in hour two against the big NBA game. Q3 seemed to have a major effect on the show in terms of regaining viewers after the Q2 drop.

Ticket update for the NC show. The last time they were at this building in 2019, it was their worst attendance of their opening months with 3,600 and there were a lot of photos of empty seats. Much stronger sales this time with 1,500+ more tickets sold.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415831761922166786


----------



## MoxleyMoxx

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415810803752742920


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Surprised to see the quarterly hours so soon.
> I don't follow NBA, but it was the second hour of AEW it was up against, right? Makes those middle quarter numbers even more impressive.


*Yes, so if they're hitting a mil against peak sports competition (the NBA Finals), there's no excuse that they can't do this regularly. I don't want to hear any more nonsense about DVRs.*



> Edit: Also, Britt's quarter highest of the night. She might actually be a draw, which is great to see because she's easily the best all around woman


----------



## DaSlacker

Hmmm wondering if they benefitted a little from the younger demo, who would DVR AEW, having their TVs on for the NBA and switching back and forth. Or same only there is more of a crossover between the two franchises than we think. So more casuals who don't watch often giving it a closer look.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *Yes, so if they're hitting a mil against peak sports competition (the NBA Finals), there's no excuse that they can't do this regularly. I don't want to hear any more nonsense about DVRs.*
> 
> 
> View attachment 104256


Nah, DVRs will always be relevant on here whenever the numbers are brought up every week, and it’s a reasonable explanation (not an “excuse”) of why some weeks perform better than others. Folks are more than free to continue discussing them.


----------



## Mister Sinister

They had a good first hour with two title matches, Christian vs Hardy and a skirmish with Cody and Black. They probably had more than a million the first hour. Hour two was puke.
Their ratings do this cycle because they are not delivering on the story between their tv specials. All they know how to do are ppv cards. They don't know how to tell stories. They probably never took a writing class in their life and have bullshitted TNT out of $40+ million.
They should have kept their audience and built onto it every month. Instead, they do this cycle of pop a million and then go back to 850, then 700, then 650 before climbing back up to do another special to pop another million.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Was expecting above 900k but that's a good number. Now it's simple, don't let it drop below a million, or at least don't let it drop below 950k


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

StifmeisterMark said:


> 1 million viewers isn't good.
> 
> They started with 1.4 million opposed 2 years ago, now 2 years later they draw 400,000 less unopposed.
> 
> They should be at 1.5 million regular or even 2 million since they're unopposed.


*1.5 is very unrealistic. That's what RAW is doing right now. Of course the debut show was huge, but no one in their right mind expected them to maintain that. We only expect 1 million because they were doing 800-950k with competition.*


----------



## DammitChrist

StifmeisterMark said:


> Ratings should always be trending upward from start, 1.5 is generous. Russo for example had that motherfucker up 6-7 ratings points in 2 years.


Oh, I see this is @RLStern .


----------



## DammitChrist

StifmeisterMark said:


> So you're not answer why they did 1.4 million viewers OPPOSED two years ago and why they can only get 1 million for a free PPV UNOPPOSED?


Dude, I don't see why you feel the need to keep downplaying Steve Austin's drawing ability.


----------



## CovidFan

"baiting is against the rules!!!"
Meanwhile on his 36th account...

"and it was The Rock who turned the tide for WCW in the fall of 1998 "
yeah it definitely wasn't when RAW finally beat Nitro in April of 1998 w/Austin vs. Vince...quite the delusion you made up in your head.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Well, that is a nice number

1st on cable and against nba finals games

along with a solid show can only mean its going up from here again


----------



## Prosper

Daammmnnn. They hit a million and #1 on cable? Incredible number for an awesome show. Darby, Cody/Black, Britt, Hangman/Elite/DO, Hardy/Christian all kept people interested, Cage/Starks also drew. Yuka and Penelope even retained over a million and that match was awful.

From the quarter hours, it looks like people were interested in the whole show, not only one particular talent, they were over a million for over half of the show. Great demo too, that'll make TNT happy.

AEW seems to be hitting that pre-pandemic stride again. 3-4 more months of great content with rowdy crowds and it'll be safe to say that they were holding back. Should be a great summer. Loving the storytelling and in-ring stuff up and down the card right now.


----------



## Mister Sinister

I just saw the quarter hours. They actually started low and then climbed during the show. What happened elsewhere on tv? Did the NBA raise the tide for them?

The first hour had the most interesting stuff. They have been front-packing the show because their ratings have been their peak at the start, but this week defied that trend. The second hour, after Christian vs Hardy was Dark matches-- a Sammy vs jobber match, a joshi girl match and a Darby/Page match.. They lost 100k people in the final two quarters but were still up 140k from Q2.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

This is a bit of truth when you think about it


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415918350199312386


----------



## DammitChrist

LifeInCattleClass said:


> This is a bit of truth when you think about it
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415918350199312386


This pretty much just demonstrates that size doesn't really matter at all as long as you're talented or entertaining (like a Darby Allin), and that wrestling fans also like to see talented women perform on TV (like a Britt Baker)


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Just to make sure we’re all on the same page

if they were ‘losing viewers’ when on Saturday for 2 or 3 weeks, and they have now doubled those viewers

that is then ‘growth’ - no?  

ps> rhetorical, i’m being facetious


----------



## Dizzie

Chan Hung said:


> Darby is one of their only properly treated homegrown star. unlike mjf, hangman, wardlow, jungle boy...darby is getting the right treatment and around a former star in Sting. I honestly forgot he was not the TNT champion and realized it was Miro lmfao.


If only they could do this with a few others like pentagon jr, wardlow, starks, hangman, sammy and this name is a little out there but angelico.


----------



## Chan Hung

Botchy SinCara said:


> View attachment 104245


Matt Hardy and Christian drew it in lol


----------



## La Parka

rich110991 said:


> So if AEW beat RAW in the demo, is it still not competition? 👀


This comment has been posted every time AEW goes over one million and is never spoken of again durning the following months where AEW has a poor rating. I’d chill on that narrative.


LifeInCattleClass said:


> This is a bit of truth when you think about it
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415918350199312386


yet if you combined all the women in AEW and calculated how much of the television program is dedicated to them, you’d find out they are featured less than the elite, which is just 3 members at the moment.


----------



## thorn123

I will hold my excitement until they can back it up weekly. I have always said a million viewers consistently is what they need before being considered a success. 1.5 million would be a dream.

This was a great episode and the viewers hopefully return next week. Often in the past when they have drawn high viewers, the episode hasn’t been their best and the critics have tee’d off on them for not delivering when it counts.

ok I am a little excited…


----------



## thorn123

Dizzie said:


> If only they could do this with a few others like pentagon jr, wardlow, starks, hangman, sammy and this name is a little out there but angelico.


I am hopeful they have a plan for these guys … I guess they cannot have everyone in the main event at once.


----------



## omaroo

I think people expecting them to be doing Raws ratings are getting ahead of themselves. 

Keeping the ratings at 1 million plus every week is a challenge but if they present the right talents and tell good stories I don't see why that isn't possible. 

Someone like Bryan coming over could be huge but very unlikely to happen.


----------



## omaroo

mets fan said:


> great show, I hope they get at least 2 mil next week, fingers crossed


What a troll. Keep it up.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

mets fan said:


> I'm not trolling, I really hope they get to that number and they realistically have a pretty good chance of doing it,if they got 1 mil this week,why wouldn't they double it and get to 2 next week,what's stopping them? makes no sense. don't be so negative and judgmental


the question is not wether they get 2 mil

its if Eddie Kingston and Kofi Kingston are related


----------



## Martyn

Mister Sinister said:


> They had a good first hour with two title matches, Christian vs Hardy and a skirmish with Cody and Black. They probably had more than a million the first hour. Hour two was puke.
> Their ratings do this cycle because they are not delivering on the story between their tv specials. All they know how to do are ppv cards. They don't know how to tell stories. They probably never took a writing class in their life and have bullshitted TNT out of $40+ million.
> They should have kept their audience and built onto it every month. Instead, they do this cycle of pop a million and then go back to 850, then 700, then 650 before climbing back up to do another special to pop another million.


Lol. You probably didnt take math class at all. 😂

Theyve outdone Raw in the demo. Raw has a budget of 225mln a year. They beated them with 45mln and are often coming close to their numbers. If anything, "bullshited" TNT must be very happy that they get similar results while paying 5 TIMES less than what USA is paying for WWEs product.


----------



## Rocking Robin

A lot of excitement for a ratings figure TNA used to top weekly


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Rocking Robin said:


> A lot of excitement for a ratings figure TNA used to top weekly


ah, a new poster - welcome welcome

hope you enjoy it here


----------



## Kishido

When Bryan and Punk will sign they will be at RAW level soon


----------



## La Parka

Kishido said:


> When Bryan and Punk will sign they will be at RAW level soon


Punk and Bryan would be fantastic additions.

I think AEW would be lucky to get one but getting both would be a game changer.


----------



## 3venflow

Rockin Robin said:


> A lot of excitement for a ratings figure TNA used to top weekly


Now put the ratings through a TV equivalent of a currency inflation calculator. Far fewer people watch live + same-day cable TV now than they did during the period TNA did between 1m and 1.2m. It's a fallacious argument like comparing the price of a cheeseburger now and however many years ago.

Have a look at PPV and live crowd comparisons, which can be more fairly done between the two eras since there has been less of a shift than in live TV viewership. On that front, AEW blows away TNA and in pre-sales alone, the next two big shows sold more tickets than TNA ever did in total for any show ever.


----------



## Erik.

3venflow said:


> Now put the ratings through a TV equivalent of a currency inflation calculator. Far fewer people watch live + same-day cable TV now than they did during the period TNA did between 1m and 1.2m. It's a fallacious argument like comparing the price of a cheeseburger now and however many years ago.
> 
> Have a look at PPV and live crowd comparisons, which can be more fairly done between the two eras since there has been less of a shift than in live TV viewership. On that front, AEW blows away TNA and in pre-sales alone, the next two big shows sold more tickets than TNA ever did in total for any show ever.


The backhanded compliments or belittling of a company in its infancy getting over half the viewers Raw gets is astounding really.

2 year old company, debuting during arguably one of the least popular times in wrestling and its putting up numbers like that. Its astonishing. 

Sure, TNA got millions of viewers. But how many wrestling fans were watching WWE during that era? I bet it was close to 4,000,000. Not just under 2.


----------



## bdon

$Dolladrew$ said:


> I may see you as a detractor but I've given you props for making positive posts before and this is another one of those cases.
> 
> If the loyalists could admit when things suck, and the detractors could admit when stuff goes well we wouldn't see the shitstorms we see.......but that's just wishing lol,cheers anyway.


It’s the most annoying thing about this board: no one can be intellectually honest. Some things are great, and some things fucking suck. It’s ok to admit that.


Prosper said:


> Daammmnnn. They hit a million and #1 on cable? Incredible number for an awesome show. Darby, Cody/Black, Britt, Hangman/Elite/DO, Hardy/Christian all kept people interested, Cage/Starks also drew. Yuka and Penelope even retained over a million and that match was awful.
> 
> From the quarter hours, it looks like people were interested in the whole show, not only one particular talent, they were over a million for over half of the show. Great demo too, that'll make TNT happy.
> 
> AEW seems to be hitting that pre-pandemic stride again. 3-4 more months of great content with rowdy crowds and *it'll be safe to say that they were holding back.* Should be a great summer. Loving the storytelling and in-ring stuff up and down the card right now.


Did I not say they were holding back after like a single month of the pandemic shows..?


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415915216903327744

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*I find it interesting that the "detractors" had higher expectations than the optimists this week and ended up being right. It's almost like we knew the show would be successful if you feature top stars instead of random jobbers off the street.*


----------



## rbl85

The Legit DMD said:


> *I find it interesting that the "detractors" had higher expectations than the optimists this week and ended up being right. It's almost like we knew the show would be successful if you feature top stars instead of random jobbers off the street.*


Lol it's not like you were wrong 1000 times before that XD


----------



## 3venflow

NYC show just went on public sale. 2,000+ in the queue right now.

They've been pushing it quite hard on the socials.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1416019795024175105


----------



## rbl85

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415915216903327744
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah it's not like others wrestlers were more on screen than her during this quarter.....

Nothing against her but everytime she's in a quarter who does well it's because of her even tho she appear for 1-2min, come on nobody knew she was going to appear at that time.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

rbl85 said:


> Yeah it's not like others wrestlers were more on screen than her during this quarter.....
> 
> Nothing against her but everytime she's in a quarter who does well it's because of her even tho she appear for 1-2min, come on nobody knew she was going to appear at that time.


This is true. I didn’t even know she’d be doing a promo until the segment was happening (maybe I missed then advertising it during the show).

Frankly too, with how well the two quarters did before hers (almost identical), there were like half a dozens that could’ve actually been top of the show. 

Still, Baker did have a strong quarter iirc a few weeks back in that tag match. Jury’s still out on if she’s actually a draw or not, but she’s been performing well recently for the numbers.


----------



## 3venflow

Over 12,000 tickets sold for the NYC show now and many still in the queue. They sold over 4,000 in the first 30 minutes of the public sale today.


----------



## Mr316

3venflow said:


> Over 12,000 tickets sold for the NYC show now and many still in the queue. They sold over 4,000 in the first 30 minutes of the public sale today.


Incredible.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

3venflow said:


> Over 12,000 tickets sold for the NYC show now and many still in the queue. They sold over 4,000 in the first 30 minutes of the public sale today.


TO 
THE 
MOON


----------



## Shock Street

Damn dude, I'm late as hell but good for them for hitting 1million and good for Darby for main eventing 3 of the 4 episodes to do so this year.


----------



## ElTerrible

Arthur Ashe is All Elite. Vince must be so pissed. He blocked them from running MSG/Barclays and they simply take the newest and biggest arena in NYC instead. Haha.


----------



## yeahright2

MoxleyMoxx said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415810803752742920


Nice way of spinning the numbers and leave out the not so good Friday shows.
Since NXT moved to Tuesdays, their actual average is 822K
And over the last year their average was 810K


----------



## $Dolladrew$

The Legit DMD said:


> *I find it interesting that the "detractors" had higher expectations than the optimists this week and ended up being right. It's almost like we knew the show would be successful if you feature top stars instead of random jobbers off the street.*


Well dark order was prominently featured and ppl usually cry about them being on tv.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Well dark order was prominently featured and ppl usually cry about them being on tv.


*And I still will. The draw is Kenny vs Hangman, not them.*


----------



## 3venflow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1416059031819595777


----------



## ElTerrible

3venflow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1416059031819595777


They need to consider a UK PPV soon. TNA really dropped the ball there. I feel like UK fans are a lot less WWE loyal than US fans and the fanbase for an alternative is there. Craven Cottage, the Fulhma ground in London, will hold close to 30k after the redevelopment. I think they can sell that place out for a major PPV.


----------



## rich110991

ElTerrible said:


> They need to consider a UK PPV soon. TNA really dropped the ball there. I feel like UK fans are a lot less WWE loyal than US fans and the fanbase for an alternative is there. Craven Cottage, the Fulhma ground in London, will hold close to 30k after the redevelopment. I think they can sell that place out for a major PPV.


I would go 🙌


----------



## sim8

ElTerrible said:


> They need to consider a UK PPV soon. TNA really dropped the ball there. I feel like UK fans are a lot less WWE loyal than US fans and the fanbase for an alternative is there. Craven Cottage, the Fulhma ground in London, will hold close to 30k after the redevelopment. I think they can sell that place out for a major PPV.





rich110991 said:


> I would go 🙌


Fyter Fest or FFTF (I forget which) last year was meant to be in London before fucking covid. It's gonna happen and I'm gonna be there


----------



## Outlaw91

ElTerrible said:


> They need to consider a UK PPV soon. TNA really dropped the ball there. I feel like UK fans are a lot less WWE loyal than US fans and the fanbase for an alternative is there. Craven Cottage, the Fulhma ground in London, will hold close to 30k after the redevelopment. I think they can sell that place out for a major PPV.


This is an awesome idea. They don't even have to rent the venue.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

The Legit DMD said:


> *And I still will. The draw is Kenny vs Hangman, not them.*


Dark order is pretty over they aren't superstars but they dont cause drastic downswing either. 

Hell for how vocal this forum is In hating the dark order the poll on if they should be on tv is in favor of yes lol.


----------



## RainmakerV2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> This is a bit of truth when you think about it
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415918350199312386



Darby also has a defined character, cool entrance music, a unique look with makeup, the skateboard stuff no one else does, etc.

What people are referring to are vanilla midgets like Kyle O Reilly who have zero personality or charisma and just do "wrasslin moves" for smarks.


----------



## 3venflow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415788313412313089


----------



## Aedubya

ElTerrible said:


> They need to consider a UK PPV soon. TNA really dropped the ball there. I feel like UK fans are a lot less WWE loyal than US fans and the fanbase for an alternative is there. Craven Cottage, the Fulhma ground in London, will hold close to 30k after the redevelopment. I think they can sell that place out for a major PPV.


No u r 100% correct
Covid doesn't exist anymore in England so cmon over


----------



## RoganJosh

Aedubya said:


> No u r 100% correct
> Covid doesn't exist anymore in England so cmon over


With all due respect this is a very ignorant remark. Just because the restrictions are being dropped on Monday it doesn't mean to say Covid has disappeared. It just means that the government are pinning all their hopes on the vaccines to prevent a surge in hospitalisations.

If you've been following the news you will know that yesterday saw a further 50k positive cases of Covid with a further 49 deaths. The case levels are similar to when we were in Lockdown back in January and it is rising rapidly. Although hospitalisations are not at the same crippling levels as in January they are still steadily rising.

Stay safe guys, don't get complacent. Get the vaccine and wear a mask. Stay at home if you have any symptoms.


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> Darby also has a defined character, cool entrance music, a unique look with makeup, the skateboard stuff no one else does, etc.
> 
> What people are referring to are vanilla midgets like Kyle O Reilly who have zero personality or charisma and just do "wrasslin moves" for smarks.


Kyle O'Reilly managed to get 50/50 chants with Adam Cole (who's arguably the most charismatic guy on NXT) last week, which is something that the current NXT Champion couldn't even do with Johnny Gargano (who's a really popular name too) this week.

O'Reilly definitely has a well-deserved place in the upper card, especially considering how superb he is in the ring.


----------



## Aedubya

Yeah I was being absolutely genuine with my post , absolutely


----------



## RiverFenix

WWE is having ticket sales issues at MSG because they require vaccination or a negative PCR test >48 hrs before (in case of kids under 16yrs old). I assume AEW skirts this requirement (assuming it's NY State and not the venue issue?) because Arthur Ashe Stadium has a retractable roof and thus could be an "outdoor venue" the night of the show.


----------



## SPCDRI

WWE shouldn't have ran the garden. They ran the Garden out of ego like 99 percent of times a 21st century garden run for anybody is an ego run, not a money run. Its so that people can say, "I sold out MSG!" and use that as promotion for their shows at other venues they can actually make money. Its rare to make money there these days and plenty of people lose out big time there.


----------



## RapShepard

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> WWE is having ticket sales issues at MSG because they require vaccination or a negative PCR test >48 hrs before (in case of kids under 16yrs old). I assume AEW skirts this requirement (assuming it's NY State and not the venue issue?) because Arthur Ashe Stadium has a retractable roof and thus could be an "outdoor venue" the night of the show.


I'm surprised there's still so many restrictions either from the company or government


----------



## RainmakerV2

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> WWE is having ticket sales issues at MSG because they require vaccination or a negative PCR test >48 hrs before (in case of kids under 16yrs old). I assume AEW skirts this requirement (assuming it's NY State and not the venue issue?) because Arthur Ashe Stadium has a retractable roof and thus could be an "outdoor venue" the night of the show.


Well AEW doesn't require proof of vaccination for any of its shows. WWE does. It definitely is a factor I'm sure for some. Plus WWEs prices are pretty ridiculous to be blunt.


----------



## La Parka

WWE lost a lot of goodwill with its TV specials. Far too many times have they promised a big spectacular and ended up having some weak 6 man tag as the main event. It dosent surprise me that AEW is a hotter ticket. The TV special events are usually a stacked card that rival PPV cards. The event should be fantastic to watch.


----------



## Prosper

bdon said:


> It’s the most annoying thing about this board: no one can be intellectually honest. Some things are great, and some things fucking suck. It’s ok to admit that.
> 
> Did I not say they were holding back after like a single month of the pandemic shows..?


Lol well yeah I think we all noticed the dip in quality during the pandemic compared to pre-pandemic, but they still somewhat had their foot on the petal for most stuff to keep the show entertaining. Now they've doubled down on that.


----------



## Randy Lahey

1+ million against the toughest competition they’ll have all year is a phenomenal number.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Yeah its their fault for running MSG although it will sell out once the big names return the next few weeks.

They didn't have to deal with covid issues in Texas and sold out three times.


----------



## Prosper

Damn the Grand Slam tickets are flying off the shelves, they will probably be 100% sold out in the next couple of hours. That's insane.

If they can fill a 17K person stadium this quickly then its time to start running bigger arenas for all shows.


----------



## Rocking Robin

3venflow said:


> Now put the ratings through a TV equivalent of a currency inflation calculator. Far fewer people watch live + same-day cable TV now than they did during the period TNA did between 1m and 1.2m. It's a fallacious argument like comparing the price of a cheeseburger now and however many years ago.
> 
> Have a look at PPV and live crowd comparisons, which can be more fairly done between the two eras since there has been less of a shift than in live TV viewership. On that front, AEW blows away TNA and in pre-sales alone, the next two big shows sold more tickets than TNA ever did in total for any show ever.


Where did anybody dispute that TV viewership numbers have fallen of a cliff in the past half decade? Cord cutting & the rise of other mediums are very much real phenomenons & well supported by all manner of empirical data & statistical graphs many of which have been posted here. It stands to reason that cable TV as a whole has become more niche & as a result so to wrestling.
Relative to its small fanbase aew does a solid job of extracting money for tickets & ppv buys, at least for now. Ultimately, wrestling is smaller than its ever been & TNA at it's peak claimed a considerably larger weekly audience.
Aew enjoy a larger share of an increasingly smaller pie, but the piece TNA had was actually much bigger.


----------



## Rocking Robin

Prosper said:


> Damn the Grand Slam tickets are flying off the shelves, they will probably be 100% sold out in the next couple of hours. That's insane.
> 
> If they can fill a 17K person stadium this quickly then its time to start running bigger arenas for all shows.


Moving 17k tickets & filling that many seats are separate propositions. It's over to the scalpers now.


----------



## Prosper

Rocking Robin said:


> Moving 17k tickets & filling that many seats are separate propositions. It's over to the scalpers now.


I'm sure the stadium will be packed to the brim.


----------



## Rocking Robin

Prosper said:


> I'm sure the stadium will be packed to the brim.


Might be able to pick up tickets for $10 like with debut Dynamite when resellers overestimated demand?


----------



## Brad Boyd

DammitChrist said:


> Kyle O'Reilly managed to get 50/50 chants with Adam Cole (who's arguably the most charismatic guy on NXT) last week, which is something that the current NXT Champion couldn't even do with Johnny Gargano (who's a really popular name too) this week.
> 
> O'Reilly definitely has a well-deserved place in the upper card, especially considering how superb he is in the ring.


And what are the chances of O'Reilly being champion, twice? Let alone go over someone like Kross? 

No chance. He's not that marketable and is not better on the mic than Kross. HHH kinda knows what he's doing and knows O'Reilly doesn't have enough charisma for the main event.


----------



## Prosper

Rocking Robin said:


> Might be able to pick up tickets for $10 like with debut Dynamite when resellers overestimated demand?


Where are you getting these numbers from?


----------



## alex0816

Prosper said:


> Damn the Grand Slam tickets are flying off the shelves, they will probably be 100% sold out in the next couple of hours. That's insane.
> 
> If they can fill a 17K person stadium this quickly then its time to start running bigger arenas for all shows.


weren't there people saying AEW was stupid to run a show there cause they be lucky to get half the stadium full?

hmm........


----------



## 3venflow

Fyter Fest night two update. Could be sold out.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1416135239416614913


----------



## ElTerrible

Prosper said:


> Damn the Grand Slam tickets are flying off the shelves, they will probably be 100% sold out in the next couple of hours. That's insane.
> 
> If they can fill a 17K person stadium this quickly then its time to start running bigger arenas for all shows.


I don´t know. I think you have to analyze this very carefully. It depends on the level of show and the place. I think they´ll have no problem to sell 15k+ in New York, Philadelphia, Chicago or London, but you need PPV level events in big cities with a lot of wrestling tradition. Maybe Toronto, Montreal or Boston? No idea what qualifies as wrestling event cities these days? Los Angeles, Houston, Dallas, Atlanta?


----------



## rbl85

ElTerrible said:


> I don´t know. I think you have to analyze this very carefully. It depends on the level of show and the place. I think they´ll have no problem to sell 15k+ in New York, Philadelphia, Chicago or London, but you need PPV level events in big cities with a lot of wrestling tradition. Maybe Toronto, Montreal or Boston? No idea what qualifies as wrestling event cities these days? Los Angeles, Houston, Dallas, Atlanta?


Yes do big arena in area in which you know a lot of people will buy tickets and only do it for specials shows.

4-5k=K for normal shows is perfectly fine, keep the big arenas for PPV or specials


----------



## Rocking Robin

Prosper said:


> Where are you getting these numbers from?


I'm sure a lot of aew fans here can back me up, although I don't think anyone will, that Uncle Dave has openly stated resellers heavily targeted early dynamite tapings but struggled to move tickets. The initial show is an example of that having being first announced as about 14,000 sold but only reaching that number through comps.

If you don't believe me go on twitter now & see all the secondary market tickets on offer.



alex0816 said:


> weren't the weirdos saying AEW was stupid to run a show there cause they be lucky to get half the stadium full?
> 
> hmm........


Nothing has been sold out yet. Further, distributed figure is different to sold. Don't jump the gun.


----------



## Chan Hung

3venflow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1416059031819595777


Holy shit. Not shabby at all.



La Parka said:


> WWE lost a lot of goodwill with its TV specials. Far too many times have they promised a big spectacular and ended up having some weak 6 man tag as the main event. It dosent surprise me that AEW is a hotter ticket. The TV special events are usually a stacked card that rival PPV cards. The event should be fantastic to watch.


This. That's exactly the issue with WWE losing their goodwill to fans, they've caved in and fucked over too many times. AEW currently has a few things their way: more unpredictability, more genuine characters at least on the mic, and a sense of something fresh and valuable given if you go in person.


----------



## Rocking Robin

rbl85 said:


> Yes do big arena in area in which you know a lot of people will buy tickets and only do it for specials shows.
> 
> 4-5k=K for normal shows is perfectly fine, keep the big arenas for PPV or specials


I think it might be a matter of New York being a location which is easy for out-of-towners to get to. Could be the same fans at all these shows.


----------



## Randy Lahey

They'll easily sell the rest of the 2,000 tickets for the NY show. To go into WWE's backyard and sellout really tells you 2 things:

AEW is a hot ticket.
WWE is not.


----------



## Prosper

ElTerrible said:


> I don´t know. I think you have to analyze this very carefully. It depends on the level of show and the place. I think they´ll have no problem to sell 15k+ in New York, Philadelphia, Chicago or London, but you need PPV level events in big cities with a lot of wrestling tradition. Maybe Toronto, Montreal or Boston? No idea what qualifies as wrestling event cities these days? Los Angeles, Houston, Dallas, Atlanta?


Yeah I would start with PPVs and TV specials like Grand Slam and the Anniversary episode. Just to test the market and see how much they can fill and how fast. Would certainly be interesting to see. The WM crowd for example is filled with people from all over the world, not just the US, so if they were to run an arena like that I’d be interested to see what kind of capacity they can pull. Most likely wouldn’t sell out a WM level arena right now but how high can they get in ticket sales? 



Rocking Robin said:


> I'm sure a lot of aew fans here can back me up, although I don't think anyone will, that Uncle Dave has openly stated resellers heavily targeted early dynamite tapings but struggled to move tickets. The initial show is an example of that having being first announced as about 14,000 sold but only reaching that number through comps.
> 
> If you don't believe me go on twitter now & see all the secondary market tickets on offer.
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing has been sold out yet. Further, distributed figure is different to sold. Don't jump the gun.


I don’t know I’ve never heard reports like that. But I know AEW’s audience is fairly loyal and passionate so I don’t think they’ll have a problem filling all the seats. Looked to be a full house for Fyter Fest and the recent Miami event, both lesser shows.


----------



## Martyn

According to @wrestletix they're at 17k for the Grand Slam show with no single match announced. That's unbelievable to break their own attendance record in such a fashion. It reminds me of the few minutes super quick sellouts during their first year. They're bringing that vibe back.

Hope they will do a European tour next year!!


----------



## Prosper

Martyn said:


> According to @wrestletix they're at 17k for the Grand Slam show with no single match announced. That's unbelievable to break their own attendance record in such a fashion. It reminds me of the few minutes super quick sellouts during their first year. They're bringing that vibe back.
> 
> Hope they will do a European tour next year!!


It was actually reported that they were planning on doing a show in the UK before Fyter Fest last year when the pandemic hit. I’m sure they’ll come see you guys out there soon.


----------



## omaroo

Just to clarify won't be at least 20,000 capacity for the NY show? 

I was under the impression Arthur ashe stadium had over 23.000 capacity.


----------



## omaroo

Prosper said:


> It was actually reported that they were planning on doing a show in the UK before Fyter Fest last year when the pandemic hit. I’m sure they’ll come see you guys out there soon.


Hope so mate. 

Think they will sell out shows in UK and Ireland easily. 

They have a loyal and strong fan base in the UK.


----------



## A PG Attitude

So good to see a non WWE promotion comfortably shifting so many tickets after two decades of no competition.


----------



## Klitschko

DammitChrist said:


> This pretty much just demonstrates that size doesn't really matter at all as long as you're talented or entertaining (like a Darby Allin), and that wrestling fans also like to see talented women perform on TV (like a Britt Baker)


I completly agree here. For me personally, it's Darby that always gets me to watch his matches and segments. It's the insane crazy things he does in the ring. Sure, his career won't last long, but he doesn't care. I love the crazy shit he does. He's also a great wrestler and just has that special charisma that makes you want to watch him. 

Baker is also great as well.


----------



## bdon

Make the show heavy on Cody airtime and watch the ratings dwindle.


----------



## rbl85

omaroo said:


> Just to clarify won't be at least 20,000 capacity for the NY show?
> 
> I was under the impression Arthur ashe stadium had over 23.000 capacity.


Not for a wrestling show


----------



## 3venflow

They reached over 15,000 tonight. Current capacity is 17k, I wonder if they can up that?

If/when they do sell the 17k tickets, it'll be the highest non-WWE attendance in America since WCW in 1998 or 1999 (depending how far over 17k it goes).


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1416200365419204616


----------



## Rocking Robin

3venflow said:


> They reached over 15,000 tonight. Current capacity is 17k, I wonder if they can up that?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1416200365419204616


If you know about these things those final 2,000 tickets will be hard to move. Most tickets are purchased in the first few days after release. For example the Miami taping sold around three thousand seats in 48 hours yet only a further 500 in the 6 weeks to the event.

Given the number of tickets currently on the secondary market it may be a task to top the existing company record of 14,000 (11,000 paid).



A PG Attitude said:


> So good to see a non WWE promotion comfortably shifting so many tickets after two decades of no competition.


You're forgetting the New Japan show which sold out MSG in a matter of minutes.


----------



## bdon

3venflow said:


> They reached over 15,000 tonight. Current capacity is 17k, I wonder if they can up that?
> 
> If/when they do sell the 17k tickets, it'll be the highest non-WWE attendance in America since WCW in 1998 or 1999 (depending how far over 17k it goes).
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1416200365419204616


B-b-b-but ECW was selling as many PPVs in 99!!! 🙄


----------



## RapShepard

I've never checked for a ticket price as I've been sick since they've been active. But if it's true they run at a significant price difference then I think that has to be factored in. Not in the pretend that's the only reason they sell sense, because clearly they have interest. But just in the sense of offering a more consumer friendly ticket is a big deal, what would really be interesting is if somebody with knowledge could speak on if they were under, over, or at perfect price for tickets.


----------



## Mister Sinister

The best way they can make heat with Hangman vs Omega is to have the Dork Order eliminated in the tag match, have Page eliminate everyone in the Elite by himself, then he is screwed in the title match by Black, and Omega drops the title the next episode to Andrade.
Black and Andrade form a new group that is like the Outsiders, and the narrative begins: "who is the third man?"


----------



## Chan Hung

What i like about packed shows is the more packed the more pressure the company has to put good shit out there! LOL


----------



## Randy Lahey

3venflow said:


> They reached over 15,000 tonight. Current capacity is 17k, I wonder if they can up that?
> 
> If/when they do sell the 17k tickets, it'll be the highest non-WWE attendance in America since WCW in 1998 or 1999 (depending how far over 17k it goes).
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1416200365419204616


Dave said they had leeway to go from 16,000 to 19,000 a few weeks ago depending on how sales went


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

Rocking Robin said:


> I'm sure a lot of aew fans here can back me up, although I don't think anyone will, that Uncle Dave has openly stated resellers heavily targeted early dynamite tapings but struggled to move tickets. The initial show is an example of that having being first announced as about 14,000 sold but only reaching that number through comps.
> 
> If you don't believe me go on twitter now & see all the secondary market tickets on offer.
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing has been sold out yet. Further, distributed figure is different to sold. Don't jump the gun.


Yeah you're right about scalpers grabbing tickets, but the show isn't for another 2+ months and their shows are looking better by the week as they build up to All Out and Newark/Queens. 

Early AEW shows like DoN or All Out were big tickets on weekends where people could travel and fly in, but were also built as PPV's, as big shows. Some scalpers saw the demand for those shows and bought into the regular weekly TV shows which were generally for local audiences and after the first 3 or 4 shows AEW were trying to settle into a weekly show format. Resellers overbought without understanding wrestling audiences and got bit. 

Arthur Ashe specifically is being built up as a big show and is in one of the biggest wrestling cities in the world. They were going to do 14 000 in Newark for Blood and Guts before the pandemic, about 9000 people still have those tickets, It's been more than a year, without wrestling you don't think wrestling fans aren't going to want try and get their hands on a ticket for one of the biggest wrestling shows AEW has had?

The fact that resellers are still interested after some of them got burned last time means that there is buzz around this event. 

What you're talking about is the difference between somebody buying up dozens of tickets for a regular episode of RAW vs. buying up dozens of tickets to Summerslam -- especially coming out of the pandemic, dude, those tickets have legs.


----------



## RapShepard

Mister Sinister said:


> The best way they can make heat with Hangman vs Omega is to have the Dork Order eliminated in the tag match, have Page eliminate everyone in the Elite by himself, then he is screwed in the title match by Black, and Omega drops the title the next episode to Andrade.
> Black and Andrade form a new group that is like the Outsiders, and the narrative begins: "who is the third man?"


Recreating the nWo with the rich luchador and possessed Dutch guy is easily top 10 shittiest fan ideas I've seen ever. You put zero thought into that


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

RapShepard said:


> Recreating the nWo with the rich luchador and possessed Dutch guy is easily top 10 shittiest fan ideas I've seen ever. You put zero thought into that


If you have Cody as the third man though....


----------



## RapShepard

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> If you have Cody as the third man though....


That's even nuttier lol. It's like picking a team on random


----------



## RiverFenix

Ticket prices should be low to get more asses in seats. I wouldn't try to make a profit with the gate, it's all about the atmosphere for television. Television contract is where the money is coming from. 

Now if I was Vince, a little guerrilla warfare here would be to buy up all tickets you could get in the secondary market and then throw them in the garbage to have empty seats and kill the atmosphere.


----------



## famicommander

The belt collector storyline has completely tanked Impact's TV ratings and nobody seems to care.

Impact viewership high and low by time period

January-February: 197,000 high, 147,000 low
March-April: 168,000 high, 116,000 low
May-June: 143,000 high, 109,000 low
July so far: 120,000 high, 69,000 low


----------



## ProjectGargano

famicommander said:


> The belt collector storyline has completely tanked Impact's TV ratings and nobody seems to care.
> 
> Impact viewership high and low by time period
> 
> January-February: 197,000 high, 147,000 low
> March-April: 168,000 high, 116,000 low
> May-June: 143,000 high, 109,000 low
> July so far: 120,000 high, 69,000 low


Off-topic. This is AEW ratings and tickets topic.


----------



## Mister Sinister

RapShepard said:


> Recreating the nWo with the rich luchador and possessed Dutch guy is easily top 10 shittiest fan ideas I've seen ever. You put zero thought into that


Lol. When you put it like that they don't gel. But the angle I was going for was to portray them as invaders. That is their commonality. Maybe a better pairing of Outsiders would be Black and Adam Scherr.

We don't have the kayfabe belief anymore that we are seeing a cross brand story building (nWo was the building of a cross brand feud in the head canon of viewers), but we have the belief of core internet fans that lament that they are signing more WWE wrestlers. The fans can be manipulated with this to create heat.

This show needs a hook like the third/fourth man story in WCW. Those were riveting episodes simply for the mystery.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Recreating the nWo with the rich luchador and possessed Dutch guy is easily top 10 shittiest fan ideas I've seen ever. You put zero thought into that


Straight up fucking burial. Lmao


----------



## Chan Hung

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Ticket prices should be low to get more asses in seats. I wouldn't try to make a profit with the gate, it's all about the atmosphere for television. Television contract is where the money is coming from.
> 
> Now if I was Vince, a little guerrilla warfare here would be to buy up all tickets you could get in the secondary market and then throw them in the garbage to have empty seats and kill the atmosphere.


Oh snap lol. Imagine Vince is like i'll just buy 15,000 tickets and the show comes off pretty empty on tv lol But Vince would never do that i imagine


----------



## 3venflow

Someone made this chart showing how AEW will sell 50,000 tickets in September based on current ticket sales. Still no location announced for the September 8th edition of Dynamite though.

The NYC show sold a few hundred more today and is at around 15,500 now.


----------



## Chan Hung

Edit, wrong thread


----------



## DaSlacker

Mister Sinister said:


> The best way they can make heat with Hangman vs Omega is to have the Dork Order eliminated in the tag match, have Page eliminate everyone in the Elite by himself, then he is screwed in the title match by Black, and Omega drops the title the next episode to Andrade.
> Black and Andrade form a new group that is like the Outsiders, and the narrative begins: "who is the third man?"


If you want to rehash a mystery angle from the 90's, then do something that didn't work the first time for whatever reason. 

Like with movies, it's easier to remake a turkey than a classic. 

Enter: The mysterious Black Scorpion (or The Pseudoscorpion if they want to avoid getting sued lol). 

Seriously. Have him/her target Sting's buddy Darby Allin for six months. Even do the live magic tricks - get somebody like Criss Angel to devise and choreograph them. 

They just need a good reveal of who it is behind the mask.


----------



## Rocking Robin

3venflow said:


> Someone made this chart showing how AEW will sell 50,000 tickets in September based on current ticket sales. Still no location announced for the September 8th edition of Dynamite though.
> 
> The NYC show sold a few hundred more today and is at around 15,500 now.
> 
> View attachment 104397


Distributed is different to sold so that distinction should be made. Of all the data I've seen All Out hasn't reached the total of 11,000 & I bet that number will be short of five figures when the secondary market is factored in.
There hasn't been much movement with Newark since it reopened & it'd be interesting to see if those who purchased seats prior to the pandemic are still keen to attend an event inside a large indoor venue with other fans?
Queens is still short of a sellout as I noted in my earlier posts.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Rocking Robin said:


> Distributed is different to sold so that distinction should be made. Of all the data I've seen All Out hasn't reached the total of 11,000 & I bet that number will be short of five figures when the secondary market is factored in.
> There hasn't been much movement with Newark since it reopened & it'd be interesting to see if those who purchased seats prior to the pandemic are still keen to attend an event inside a large indoor venue with other fans?
> Queens is still short of a sellout as I noted in my earlier posts.


from all the data i’ve seen from my sources they actually sold 25,000 and will be opening extra seats on the moon


----------



## Rocking Robin

DaSlacker said:


> If you want to rehash a mystery angle from the 90's, then do something that didn't work the first time for whatever reason.
> 
> Like with movies, it's easier to remake a turkey than a classic.
> 
> Enter: The mysterious Black Scorpion (or The Pseudoscorpion if they want to avoid getting sued lol).
> 
> Seriously. Have him/her target Sting's buddy Darby Allin for six months. Even do the live magic tricks - get somebody like Criss Angel to devise and choreograph them.
> 
> They just need a good reveal of who it is behind the mask.


Unfortunately, given the caliber of broken down & second hand talent aew is resigned to recruiting, it may be revealed that the individual under the mask is once again Ric Flair.


----------



## Geert Wilders

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Ticket prices should be low to get more asses in seats. I wouldn't try to make a profit with the gate, it's all about the atmosphere for television. Television contract is where the money is coming from.
> 
> Now if I was Vince, a little guerrilla warfare here would be to buy up all tickets you could get in the secondary market and then throw them in the garbage to have empty seats and kill the atmosphere.


This is what Bischoff would do. I don’t think Vince cares enough about AEW to do this. WWE have problems of their own currently.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Now if I was Vince, a little guerrilla warfare here would be to buy up all tickets you could get in the secondary market and then throw them in the garbage to have empty seats and kill the atmosphere.


lol that's dirty. Then again he told cable providers that if they carried Starrcade they wouldn't get Mania 4. Starrcade was of course dropped by most of them and led to further financial problems for JCP. Not to mention the Royal Rumble and Survivor Series were created to directly counter WCW/JCP shows of the time lol.


----------



## 3venflow

Fyter Fest night two is edging towards a sell out or close. It will have more people than night one.


----------



## rbl85

Can't be a sell out because 2 section aren't open

To be a sell out they would have to sell 6562 tickets


----------



## RainmakerV2

Randy Lahey said:


> They'll easily sell the rest of the 2,000 tickets for the NY show. To go into WWE's backyard and sellout really tells you 2 things:
> 
> AEW is a hot ticket.
> WWE is not.


Well okay, and this isnt to knock on what AEW is doing. To sell tickets like that in NY is impressive. They're doing very well.

But, a couple things here. Everyone knows tickets to see anything at MSG are outrageous. But not even counting that, to go to the WWE show you have to have proof of Vaccination for anyone over 16. Like it or not, a good portion of the country (and I bet a nice chunk of the people going to Arthur Ashe for AEW), don't want it yet. 

Secondly, we all know WWEs audience veers way more towards families. So let's say you have a family of 4 kids. MSG is requiring anyone under 16 to have a negative test on hand thats less than 2 days old. So, that means, you have to get all your kids tested, during school time, and if any one of them comes back positive, which almost anyone under 16 is gonna be asymptomatic and you wouldn't know if they had it, then you're probably out at least 1,000 bucks if you got even reasonably good seats, much less if you're coming in from out of town or state and have a hotel reserved, etc.

So, again, not to disparage AEW. They're doing great. But it isnt as black and white as you kinda made it sound there. Lol.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

rbl85 said:


> Can't be a sell out because 2 section aren't open
> 
> To be a sell out they would have to sell 6562 tickets


If they would just take away F5, F6, F&, 101, and move the ring and set in that distance they could add 113 and 114 and have a packed house at 5k. Irritates me that they will allow those two sections to be photographed and tweeted all over.


----------



## 3venflow

Some updates c/o Wrestle Tix and their Patreon.

Fyter Fest night two up to 5,210 sold.

Fight for the Fallen has also had more movement despite no matches announced, with 5,279 (86% of available) sold. They did 3,600 here in 2019 with a Jericho/Sammy vs. Hangman/Kenny main event so this is a major improvement. They teased a Kenny title defense for this show, but I'm thinking it could be the 5 v. 5 here. 

15,685 distributed for the NYC show with a further 244 sold over the past day or so.

Tickets have gone on sale for the New Orleans show on January 12, 2022. First count is 1,168 sold and a current capacity of 3,116 at the Lakefront Arena (potentially it can hold more than double that I believe).

The Dynamite in Philly (Oct 6th) has seen significant movement with four more sections sold out and a total of 3,702 (of 4,615) seats gone.

The Newark show (Sep 15) has sold a a few hundred more, taking the total distributed to approximately 10,721 (of 11,897).


----------



## rbl85

Didn't even know that there was a sell in New Orleans


----------



## 3venflow

September 8th location finally revealed.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1417154479934279682

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1417161926417817605
More seats opened for Fyter Fest.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1417167040549462019


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

3venflow said:


> September 8th location finally revealed.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1417154479934279682
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1417161926417817605
> More seats opened for Fyter Fest.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1417167040549462019


Nice, was gonna ask why they hadn't got a place for the 8th yet about 6 hours ago and just forgot to hit enter lol. Mox is going to get a massive pop.

---

Hey 3venflow, here's a question, or at least something to think on because there's no way to know for sure. With the addition of the Sept 8th show, this will be the 6th (or 7th with Milwaukee) show they've announced that they're running in venues located on or associated with universities.

Now besides the obvious fact that university level basketball/hockey arenas just happen to be a great fit for the size of audiences they're drawing (and are possibly cheaper to book) do you think this could be a semi intentional move by Kahn to generate word of mouth buzz on campuses?

These are people that are just entering the key demo and are about the age that they're aiming for in terms of the content they're producing. If they attend the show, are invited by a friend, or just hear about the event because it's happening on their doorstep, AEW has a chance to generate a good amount of positive word of mouth/social media buzz and possibly grow the audience or at least let people know there is more than WWE when it comes to wrestling.

What do you think? Obviously there's no way of knowing for sure, but just thought it was kind of an interesting trend.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Nice, was gonna ask why they hadn't got a place for the 8th yet about 6 hours ago and just forgot to hit enter lol. Mox is going to get a massive pop.
> 
> ---
> 
> Hey 3venflow, here's a question, or at least something to think on because there's no way to know for sure. With the addition of the Sept 8th show, this will be the 6th (or 7th with Milwaukee) show they've announced that they're running in venues located on or associated with universities.
> 
> Now besides the obvious fact that university level basketball/hockey arenas just happen to be a great fit for the size of audiences they're drawing (and are possibly cheaper to book) do you think this could be a semi intentional move by Kahn to generate word of mouth buzz on campuses?
> 
> These are people that are just entering the key demo and are about the age that they're aiming for in terms of the content they're producing. If they attend the show, are invited by a friend, or just hear about the event because it's happening on their doorstep, AEW has a chance to generate a good amount of positive word of mouth/social media buzz and possibly grow the audience or at least let people know there is more than WWE when it comes to wrestling.
> 
> What do you think? Obviously there's no way of knowing for sure, but just thought it was kind of an interesting trend.


good shout

pre-pandemic they had a few shows with ‘student’ sections - which was cheaper tickets as well

they are definitely trying to appeal to 18 - 34


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

LifeInCattleClass said:


> good shout
> 
> pre-pandemic they had a few shows with ‘student’ sections - which was cheaper tickets as well
> 
> they are definitely trying to appeal to 18 - 34


Yeah, I mean it seems like a pretty obvious move to make. There are a ton of these venues all around the country that are generally underutilized because they're too small for major sports, too big for medium sized bands or other acts, but are still well maintained because they're connected to a university and you've got a bunch of young people in close vicinity that would get a big kick out of a fun show on their doorstep. 

Britt Baker's show in Pittsburg is probably the biggest of these university shows and the venue is across the street from where she went to school. 

So here's a young, smart, successful woman who made it through college to be a dentist, while also being a badass in the ring and one of the best shit talkers on the tv today, coming out looking like a fuckin rockstar to a massive home town pop. Sounds to me like a surefire way to make/elevate a star and earn fans and interest. 

Just my opinion.


----------



## Mister Sinister

I think they signed both Bryan Danielson and Brock Lesnar. The hit dog hollers, and WWE just brought back Cena and Goldberg-- that's a loud holler.

It's f'n bonkers to throw around this kind of money and not hire Eric Bischoff to captain this ship.


----------



## Chan Hung

Wrong thread


----------



## 3venflow

Close now to breaking the NJPW/ROH record for a non-U.S. WWE show since '99.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1417466876301557767


----------



## 3venflow

AEW have opened up 800+ new seats for Fight for the Fallen, which has sold a tad under 5,500 so far. Capacity is now at 6,950 for a building they struggled at in 2019. My guess is they will announce The Elite vs. Hangman & Dark Order match as the main event tomorrow.


----------



## 3venflow

Last Wednesday's finals from Nielsen data. AEW blew away the competition in the 18-49.


----------



## Ham and Egger

I got tickets for the Queens show. I know I'll be in store for something special that night! 😋


----------



## Martyn

Tony Khan is going to reveal another big live event in next weeks Dynamite. It's the first time they're hyping up such an announcement I guess.

What's going to be? European tour? Another Dynamite on the cruise?

Edit - I've noticed theres another topic dedicated to this subject, but I cant delete this post.


----------



## 3venflow

Current ticket situation for Charlotte next week.

Distributed: 5,576
Capacity: 6,950
Last time (2019): 4,000 (3,600 paid)

Last night's estimated final count in Garland:

Distributed: 5,688
Capacity: 6,168
Last time (2019): 4,500


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Current ticket situation for Charlotte next week.
> 
> Distributed: 5,576
> Capacity: 6,950
> Last time (2019): 4,000 (3,600 paid)
> 
> Last night's estimated final count in Garland:
> 
> Distributed: 5,688
> Capacity: 6,168
> Last time (2019): 4,500


G R O W T H

love to see it


----------



## A PG Attitude

My prediction for ratings last light.

966k
0.37 demo


----------



## Klitschko

780k.


----------



## TD Stinger

They did just a little over a million last week with competition from the NBA Finals so a show with Jericho, Darby, Britt, and Mox you would expect to do even better.


----------



## La Parka

Klitschko said:


> 780k.


That ain’t the rating, is it?


----------



## Klitschko

La Parka said:


> That ain’t the rating, is it?


Nah just my guess.


----------



## fabi1982

TD Stinger said:


> They did just a little over a million last week with competition from the NBA Finals so a show with Jericho, Darby, Britt, and Mox you would expect to do even better.


I would assume the same, that they should have a better rating than last week.


----------



## 3venflow

Rating is in:

1,148,000

3rd highest in the show's history.

0.44 in the 18-49, the highest since December 9, 2020.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Boom


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1418304154024484865


----------



## Geert Wilders

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Boom
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1418304154024484865


This is encouraging to see. AEW specials are a complete draw. 

Now it is impossible to make every Dynamite feel like a special. However, they must give us unmissable shows.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Impressive rating. Deffo seem to finally be on an upwards trend.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Great news. I thought they might drop back below one million but amazing to see them get back back million plus viewers. Hopefully they can build some momentum.


----------



## Chan Hung

Holy shit. They had an abysmal show and delivered fucking high ratings. Go figure. Well hell, i guess i'm eating crow this week and will just be positive, not saying one negtative thing this entire fucking week until next Dynamite lol. I would like to see breakdown though? What is garnering the high ratings? Etc. But yeah, good for AEW for moving up. I'm shocked.


----------



## 3venflow

Olympics will probably impact most ratings over the next two weeks.

But in the P18-49, Dynamite can now be considered legitimate rival to RAW. 0.44 is higher than several recent RAW episodes. Tony Khan will hope it's still up there when he's renegotiating the TV deal.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Surprised. I thought last week had a more filled out card, but I guess no competition this week plus a Jericho match, Baker/Nyla, and Mox/Archer main event made for a bigger show than I thought it would.

Huge number for them though. The audience seems to be growing.


----------



## RainmakerV2

That's a huge positive considering the first hour. That means they've grown their core loyal audience that will sit through crap.


----------



## A PG Attitude

3venflow said:


> Olympics will probably impact most ratings over the next two weeks.
> 
> But in the P18-49, Dynamite can now be considered legitimate rival to RAW. 0.44 is higher than several recent RAW episodes. Tony Khan will hope it's still up there when he's renegotiating the TV deal.


I can't see Olympics pulling many viewers with no crowds.


----------



## 3venflow

Dynamite also drew 153,000 in Canada last night, their highest number since Blood & Guts.


----------



## Aedubya

A PG Attitude said:


> I can't see Olympics pulling many viewers with no crowds.


Its daft it's even going ahead
£€£€


----------



## holy

Solid rating. Even though Raw couldn't hit the 2 million viewer mark, there seems to be some buzz about wrestling again ever since Cena returned at MITB!


----------



## rbl85

A PG Attitude said:


> I can't see Olympics pulling many viewers with no crowds.


During the last Olympics RAW lost an average of 400K viewers


----------



## bdon

I liked last night’s episode, but they got last night’s rating based on last week’s show. That’s what happens when you give great shows.

Next week’s rating will tell us if the general audience agrees with me or the board consensus of the show being very blah last night


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> I liked last night’s episode, but they got last night’s rating based on last week’s show. That’s what happens when you give great shows.
> 
> *Next week’s rating will tell us if the general audience agrees with me or the board consensus of the show being very blah last night*


Next week will tell us nothing, it's the olympics


----------



## Prosper

Good shit. Let’s stay over a mil overall and over 0.40 in the demo. With Bryan coming in I think they can hit 1.4 with Punk maybe 1.5-1.6 and grow the demo to 0.60. Rosa, Black, Andrade all signed, good times for AEW right now.


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> Next week will tell us nothing, it's the olympics


Ohh. That’s very true, definitely changes things somewhat. If they don’t lose too many viewers, then you have to chalk it up to AEW being on the verge of something special…


----------



## EmbassyForever

Shell yeah


----------



## The XL 2

The whole no one watches wrestling on cable anymore was always cope. Certain live sporting events do huge numbers, Presidental debates do huge numbers, millions of people pay 70 dollars to watch guys like Conor McGregor, Jorge Masvidal, Floyd Mayweather, etc even with illegal streaming around. It would always a poor excuse to justify the horrible rating wrestling has gotten in years past. Live entertainment is still in demand.

Forget the Monday Night War boom, their were 4-5 million people watching Raw in 2014 with Batista and Daniel Bryan leading the way. WWE lost around 3 million of those people. Those people didn't just go away. AEW had and still has an amazing opportunity to win over millions of wrestling fans who want to watch a national product but do not enjoy the WWE anymore. The potential for growth is massive if they just do things right. I'd argue they're growing slower than they could be, but growth is still positive.

I don't think its that much of a shock that a night where the Bucks didn't waste a quarter of the show doing their gymnast routine and where they had a vicious, bloody main event between between two badasses did one of their best numbers ever. Less goofy gymnasts, more badasses.


----------



## rich110991

holy said:


> Solid rating. Even though Raw couldn't hit the 2 million viewer mark, there seems to be some buzz about wrestling again ever since Cena returned at MITB!


Lol AEW was buzzing the week before

Pleased with the rating!!!


----------



## RainmakerV2

It is..coincidental that the two weeks there hasn't been a 20 minute Young Buck match the ratings have been great. Lol


----------



## A PG Attitude

rbl85 said:


> During the last Olympics RAW lost an average of 400K viewers


The last Olympics had packed stadiums/arenas.


----------



## DaSlacker

3venflow said:


> Olympics will probably impact most ratings over the next two weeks.
> 
> But in the P18-49, Dynamite can now be considered legitimate rival to RAW. 0.44 is higher than several recent RAW episodes. * Tony Khan will hope it's still up there when he's renegotiating the TV deal* .


I've often wondered if AEW would make a play to take WWE's Fox network spot when the time came to renegotiate. Should the rating and demo remain intriguing enough. 

I mean, at this point in the day WWE is tied to NBCUniversal and AEW WarnerMedia. Both media giants with their own cable packages and online subscription services. In between this is Fox, another media giant with many affiliates. They want wrestling and currently pay 205 million per year for live content. Could we see Tony Khan undercut them and offer the same for 50-100 million?


----------



## bdon

DaSlacker said:


> I've often wondered if AEW would make a play to take WWE's Fox network spot when the time came to renegotiate. Should the rating and demo remain intriguing enough.
> 
> I mean, at this point in the day WWE is tied to NBCUniversal and AEW WarnerMedia. Both media giants with their own cable packages and online subscription services. In between this is Fox, another media giant with many affiliates. They want wrestling and currently pay 205 million per year for live content. Could we see Tony Khan undercut them and offer the same for 50-100 million?


Goddamn I’d love if they undercut and stole Vince’s golden goose.


----------



## Rocking Robin

Raw & Nxt were better shows this week & I imagine so will be Smackdown & tna. The buzz around Punk & also Bryan may have helped, with viewers tuning in for a surprise. Alas, nothing worthwhile happened.


----------



## Klitschko

3venflow said:


> Rating is in:
> 
> 1,148,000
> 
> 3rd highest in the show's history.
> 
> 0.44 in the 18-49, the highest since December 9, 2020.


Holy shit.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Rocking Robin said:


> Raw & Nxt were better shows this week & I imagine so will be Smackdown & tna. The buzz around Punk & also Bryan may have helped, with viewers tuning in for a surprise. Alas, nothing worthwhile happened.


that’s an interesting take

i respect your opinion


----------



## Erik.

Brilliant number - momentum is growing.

Exactly what they need heading into the next few months with all the hype they're generating.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*@RapShepard I told you to believe in Britt!*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> Brilliant number - momentum is growing.
> 
> Exactly what they need heading into the next few months with all the hype they're generating.


imagine this as a foundation and then they debut Bryan and Punk

fookin hell we’ll see some sparks

oh, and for future reference to all

Bryan > Punk


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> *@RapShepard I told you to believe in Britt!*


We'll see as she continues to hold the belt. Good number for them tho


----------



## Erik.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> imagine this as a foundation and then they debut Bryan and Punk
> 
> fookin hell we’ll see some sparks
> 
> oh, and for future reference to all
> 
> Bryan > Punk


All seems to be building towards a crescendo.

And yes, Bryan > Punk.


----------



## 3venflow

Some more figures from PWTorch, including males 18-49 and last week's +3 day rating.

-

AEW Dynamite grew to one of its highest viewership numbers yet last night with 1.148 million viewers, up from 1.025 million last week, well above the 877,000 viewership average during the prior two weeks back in the regular timeslot after being preempted for five weeks to Friday and Saturday nights.

The total viewership number is the third highest ever. Only the premiere episode and the first episode unopposed by NXT drew better. While there’s often a focus on the 18-49 demographic because advertisers focus on that number, total viewership is important to AEW because there are fans 50 and over and under 18 who also buy PPVs and live event tickets.

The cable rating was 0.67, up from 0.65 last week and 0.60 the prior two weeks.

The surge in viewership coincides with AEW’s return to live touring with arenas full of fans.

This is potentially good news for WWE as they enter their second week of Smackdown and Raw taking place in front of live fans. Both shows experienced an increase in viewership in their first shows back at arenas.

In the coveted 18-49 demographic, the show drew to a 0.44 rating, up from last week’s 0.40. The prior two weeks averaged 0.34. The 0.44 rating is tied with their first Wednesday unopposed by NXT on Apr. 14. (By comparison, Raw this week drew a 0.57 this week. This week’s AEW demo number tops last week’s Raw 0.43.)

In the male 18-49 demographic, it drew to a 0.62, up from 0.55 last week and 0.45 the prior two weeks. (By comparison, Raw drew a 0.75 rating, but it beats Raw’s 0.51 rating last week.)

In the male 18-34 demographic, it drew a 0.26, the same as last week and above the 0.21 and 0.22 the prior two weeks. (By comparison, Raw drew 0.41 this week in that demo and 0.28 last week.)

We also have updated 3-day and 7-day totals for Dynamite. Last week’s 3-day viewership was 1.226 million, the highest since May 5. The 7-day total for the July 7 episode was 1.100 million, the second week in a row Dynamite drew more than a milion viewers after five weeks under that number. It had drawn more than a million viewers after seven days the first six weeks unopposed by NXT.

Dynamite was no. 1 on cable in the 18-49 demographic on Wednesday night.


----------



## RapShepard

DaSlacker said:


> I've often wondered if AEW would make a play to take WWE's Fox network spot when the time came to renegotiate. Should the rating and demo remain intriguing enough.
> 
> I mean, at this point in the day WWE is tied to NBCUniversal and AEW WarnerMedia. Both media giants with their own cable packages and online subscription services. In between this is Fox, another media giant with many affiliates. *They want wrestling and currently pay 205 million per year for live content. Could we see Tony Khan undercut them and offer the same for 50-100 million?*


Do y'all think these things through before you ask them? In the desperation for an AEW win some of y'all are really pondering on if Tony would take 50-100 million less for his well performing show just to stick it Vince. No come negotiations both shows will be asking for more money unless these cable companies figure out away to bring viewership back without the need of live content.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Do y'all think these things through before you ask them? In the desperation for an AEW win some of y'all are really pondering on if Tony would take 50-100 million less for his well performing show just to stick it Vince. No come negotiations both shows will be asking for more money unless these cable companies figure out away to bring viewership back without the need of live content.


i think you’re missing his point

even at 50-100 mil less, its more than what Dynamite is earning

therefore, the undercut is not to ‘screw vince’

but rather to get that bag


----------



## RainmakerV2

RapShepard said:


> Do y'all think these things through before you ask them? In the desperation for an AEW win some of y'all are really pondering on if Tony would take 50-100 million less for his well performing show just to stick it Vince. No come negotiations both shows will be asking for more money unless these cable companies figure out away to bring viewership back without the need of live content.


TNT demoted them to TBS but they're gonna kick WWE off FOX lol.


----------



## Martyn

Great rating. Next weeks Fight for the Fallen has a ppv quality card, so hopefully the Olympics wont affect it that much and they will keep it going upwards.


----------



## Rocking Robin

holy said:


> Solid rating. Even though Raw couldn't hit the 2 million viewer mark, there seems to be some buzz about wrestling again ever since Cena returned at MITB!


I've always said as Raw goes so does the rest of wrestling throughout the week. The bounce from Monday night due to the return of John Cena & an outstanding ppv, is having an impact on the other products.



DaSlacker said:


> I've often wondered if AEW would make a play to take WWE's Fox network spot when the time came to renegotiate. Should the rating and demo remain intriguing enough.
> 
> I mean, at this point in the day WWE is tied to NBCUniversal and AEW WarnerMedia. Both media giants with their own cable packages and online subscription services. In between this is Fox, another media giant with many affiliates. They want wrestling and currently pay 205 million per year for live content. Could we see Tony Khan undercut them and offer the same for 50-100 million?


NBC universal probably want to sure up the rest of Wwe programming & return Smackdown to under it's network umbrella, however given the show dominants Friday's network ratings that will result in a bidding war.
Wwe broadcasting rights have moved in only one direction & whatever deal is stuck next it's going to be considerable.

Aew doesn't hold a candle towards Wwe in terms of advertising revenue, with the pg rating at play & having its brand on products opens up pathways for distribution which is where networks make the most returns. We're still talking a small corner store versus an internationally renown retail giant.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Rocking Robin said:


> I've always said as Raw goes so does the rest of wrestling throughout the week. The bounce from Monday night due to the return of John Cena & an outstanding ppv, is having an impact on the other products.
> 
> 
> 
> NBC universal probably want to sure up the rest of Wwe programming & return Smackdown to under it's network umbrella, however given the show dominants Friday's network ratings that will result in a bidding war.
> Wwe broadcasting rights have moved in only one direction & whatever deal is stuck next it's going to be considerable.
> 
> Aew doesn't hold a candle towards Wwe in terms of advertising revenue, with the pg rating at play & having its brand on products opens up pathways for distribution which is where networks make the most returns. We're still talking a small corner store versus an internationally renown retail giant.


I believe AEW is riding its momentum from last week, rather than the return of John Cena. This is some mental gymnastics if you think Cena will cause a ripple across pro wrestling and increase AEWs rating as well. I’d rather wager that people believed Danielson or Punk would debut.


----------



## DaSlacker

RainmakerV2 said:


> TNT demoted them to TBS but they're gonna kick WWE off FOX lol.


Demoted, moved. Not the end of the world. In prime time TBS is a higher rated network, in terms of demo, than USA Network. In daily viewership they are neck and neck.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i think you’re missing his point
> 
> even at 50-100 mil less, its more than what Dynamite is earning
> 
> therefore, the undercut is not to ‘screw vince’
> 
> but rather to get that bag


No I don't think y'all are really thinking about this at all. AEW feels like a bargain, but people for whatever reason forget this deal was signed with them having no real evidence of how valuable they are. When they go to sign their next contract. They're not going to be priced at some bargain type number. 


If the ship stays steady or rises their next negotiations they're going to based on 

"Hey we have a weekly 2 hour live show that will consistently get you a top 5 cable spot in the demo and a 2nd 1 hour show that charts high as well". They're going to be asking for about the same damn price as WWE.


----------



## RoganJosh

Rocking Robin said:


> I've always said as Raw goes so does the rest of wrestling throughout the week. The bounce from Monday night due to the return of John Cena & an outstanding ppv, is having an impact on the other products.
> 
> 
> 
> NBC universal probably want to sure up the rest of Wwe programming & return Smackdown to under it's network umbrella, however given the show dominants Friday's network ratings that will result in a bidding war.
> Wwe broadcasting rights have moved in only one direction & whatever deal is stuck next it's going to be considerable.
> 
> Aew doesn't hold a candle towards Wwe in terms of advertising revenue, with the pg rating at play & having its brand on products opens up pathways for distribution which is where networks make the most returns. We're still talking a small corner store versus an internationally renown retail giant.


What's this rubbish? WWE does not set the scene for fuck all. By your logic this week's NXT would have gained a fair amount when in fact it only saw like 5k rise. Come on man you should stick to the WWE section.

Does it burn your ass that Danial Bryan and CM Punk have signed?


----------



## Geert Wilders

RapShepard said:


> No I don't think y'all are really thinking about this at all. AEW feels like a bargain, but people for whatever reason forget this deal was signed with them having no real evidence of how valuable they are. When they go to sign their next contract. They're not going to be priced at some bargain type number.
> 
> 
> If the ship stays steady or rises their next negotiations they're going to based on
> 
> "Hey we have a weekly 2 hour live show that will consistently get you a top 5 cable spot in the demo and a 2nd 1 hour show that charts high as well". They're going to be asking for about the same damn price as WWE.


WWEs advertising slots are probably worth more. AEW will not get a similar contract.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> We'll see as she continues to hold the belt. Good number for them tho


*It was already proven before she was champion. She's only improving the numbers as time goes on. My faves don't miss. 







*


----------



## RapShepard

Geert Wilders said:


> WWEs advertising slots are probably worth more. AEW will not get a similar contract.


AEW Dynamite is going to be super close to Raw or Smackdown when their next contract is. I can't see them being valued as a ¼ as valuable next go around


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> No I don't think y'all are really thinking about this at all. AEW feels like a bargain, but people for whatever reason forget this deal was signed with them having no real evidence of how valuable they are. When they go to sign their next contract. They're not going to be priced at some bargain type number.
> 
> 
> If the ship stays steady or rises their next negotiations they're going to based on
> 
> "Hey we have a weekly 2 hour live show that will consistently get you a top 5 cable spot in the demo and a 2nd 1 hour show that charts high as well". They're going to be asking for about the same damn price as WWE.


lol - don’t ‘y’all’ me

i was explaining his point which i thought you missed

i didn’t say i agreed or disagreed

that is all


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> *It was already proven before she was champion. She's only improving the numbers as time goes on.*


2 things can be true, she's a star for them and you're giving her a little extra sauce because you like her. A lot of extra things about this you aren't including. Jericho had a match, Darby had a match, Moxley had a death match, and fans are back.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol - don’t ‘y’all’ me
> 
> i was explaining his point which i thought you missed
> 
> i didn’t say i agreed or disagreed
> 
> that is all


Y'all worked perfectly there in replying to you and the original comment I responded to.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> 2 things can be true, she's a star for them and you're giving her a little extra sauce because you like her. A lot of extra things about this you aren't including. Jericho had a match, Darby had a match, Moxley had a death match, and fans are back.


*I've always given Darby credit for being the top draw, but Britt Baker had a title match featured on the card while he was a sideshow. Moxley's garbage matches are never in the conversation with Britt and Darby.*


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> *I've always given Darby credit for being the top draw, but Britt Baker had a title match featured on the card while he was a sideshow.*


There was a lot of draws on the show on my point. Not saying Britt wasn't a part of the draw. But I'm not going to say she's the big draw yet. In time she'll have time to show her worth.


----------



## Geert Wilders

RapShepard said:


> AEW Dynamite is going to be super close to Raw or Smackdown when their next contract is. I can't see them being valued as a ¼ as valuable next go around


If this is the case, it’s because WWE drops in value. I thunk AEWs value increases while WWEs value decreases.


----------



## RapShepard

Geert Wilders said:


> If this is the case, it’s because WWE drops in value. I thunk AEWs value increases while WWEs value decreases.


Would likely be the case. AEW reaching it's prime as Vince continues to Vince lol.


----------



## rbl85

The Legit DMD said:


> *I've always given Darby credit for being the top draw, but Britt Baker had a title match featured on the card while he was a sideshow. Moxley's garbage matches are never in the conversation with Britt and Darby.*


Moxley is the biggest draw of the damn company


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Y'all worked perfectly there in replying to you and the original comment I responded to.


nope - you looped me in with that (his) thinking process

i actually agree with your point

so, your y’all was in fact, incorrect


----------



## DaSlacker

Rocking Robin said:


> AEW doesn't hold a candle towards Wwe in terms of advertising revenue, with the pg rating at play & having its brand on products opens up pathways for distribution which is where networks make the most returns. We're still talking a small corner store versus an internationally renown retail giant.


Whilst this is true. It is also possible for AEW to go PG or offer a PG rated show without compromising quality. Wrestling is so politically correct thesedays that you wouldn't even notice. WWE went all around PG too but people noticed because they went full on childish. Likewise AEW is also getting its brand on products - the line of action figures and video games. They're also growing their social media presence. Obviously a lot of work to do but WWE feels like Blockbuster and Toys R Us in their latter days.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> nope - you looped me in with that (his) thinking process
> 
> i actually agree with your point
> 
> so, your y’all was in fact, incorrect


Nope you guys are a tag team now, the Y'all brothers lol


----------



## yeahright2

Well, we got some ratings. Looked good this week. 

AEW Ratings prediction game

congratulations @LifeInCattleClass . You win again. It´s only been 3 weeks since your last win.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Nope you guys are a tag team now, the Y'all brothers lol


lol, ok then - guess that is my fate


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> Well, we got some ratings. Looked good this week.
> 
> AEW Ratings prediction game
> 
> congratulations @LifeInCattleClass . You win again. It´s only been 3 weeks since your last win.


LICC ends the match with his spinning lariat which he calls ‘the unbearable optimist’


----------



## omaroo

Brilliant rating keep it up AEW.

Next week looks a great card and would hope to see over a million next week. But if they drop under a million not the end of the world. Lets not forget the biggest sporting event in the world in the form of Olympics is currently on. So bound to affect rating somewhat.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> There was a lot of draws on the show on my point. Not saying Britt wasn't a part of the draw. But I'm not going to say she's the big draw yet. In time she'll have time to show her worth.


*So what, you want her on a card with Dark geeks only? That's not going to prove anything because she'll be the top draw by default.*


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> *So what, you want her on a card with Dark geeks only? That's not going to prove anything because she'll be the top draw by default.*


No, just to continue to draw, the more you do something the more it becomes clear that's what you are. Britt is in her infancy of proving herself a draw.


----------



## Mr316

The show has amazing energy right now. Well deserved rating!


----------



## 3venflow

More preempts coming it looks like. The move to TBS needs to hurry.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1418337560833626117


----------



## omaroo

3venflow said:


> More preempts coming it looks like. The move to TBS needs to hurry.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1418337560833626117


Dammit will affect the ratings for sure.

TBS move should have been done sooner.


----------



## izhack111

Oc is a draw


----------



## 3venflow

omaroo said:


> Dammit will affect the ratings for sure.
> 
> TBS move should have been done sooner.


One plus is: The Jericho Cruise this year is October 21st to 25th, so that's kinda convenient as they can move the October 20th to fit in with that.


----------



## DammitChrist

Yep; to say that this is (yet) another great week for AEW, and that I’m happy for them would be a MASSIVE understatement. 

That’s without even mentioning the recent news about CM Punk and Daniel Bryan, or even Thunder Rosa apparently signing with them (finally)


----------



## omaroo

3venflow said:


> One plus is: The Jericho Cruise this year is October 21st to 25th, so that's kinda convenient as they can move the October 20th to fit in with that.


In affect tape two weeks of shows in that period potentially.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Excellent rating. Clearly the temporary move in June didn't really affect them at all. The fact just their regular shows with nothing that special on them are doing some of the highest numbers they've ever done show they have lot of momentum.


----------



## omaroo

DammitChrist said:


> Yep; to say that this is (yet) another great week for AEW, and that I’m happy for them would be a MASSIVE understatement.
> 
> That’s without even mentioning the recent news about CM Punk and Daniel Bryan, or even Thunder Rosa apparently signing with them (finally)


I think their roster is stacked and is pretty great atm even without the potential of Bryan and Punk.

Do think they need some more quality in the midcard and lower card to really have quality all round and 1 or 2 more world class women wrestlers.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *I've always given Darby credit for being the top draw, but Britt Baker had a title match featured on the card while he was a sideshow. Moxley's garbage matches are never in the conversation with Britt and Darby.*


 Wait, what? 

Jon Moxley just delivered another awesome banger against Lance Archer last night in that Texas Death match, and I’m pretty sure plenty of wrestling fans tuned in to see that violent match too.


----------



## bdon

RainmakerV2 said:


> TNT demoted them to TBS but they're gonna kick WWE off FOX lol.


What the fuck does TNT have to do with FOX? TNT is a shitty station that fucked over WCW routinely. It isn’t about the product, but the station itself being ran so shitty.


----------



## Klitschko

The Legit DMD said:


> *I've always given Darby credit for being the top draw, but Britt Baker had a title match featured on the card while he was a sideshow. Moxley's garbage matches are never in the conversation with Britt and Darby.*


I like Moxley, so I got to ask. Why are his matches considered garbage matches, but you're one of the biggest supporters of the Baker/Rosa lights out match?


----------



## .christopher.

AEW better hope WWE continues to bury their roster for Roman Reigns. He's an even worse Cena who's run off fans at an incredible rate.

AEW maintain these numbers, and then kick on by adding some huge interest in getting Punk and Bryan, whilst Reigns continues to run off WWE fans, and it won't be long until they're neck and neck.


----------



## Klitschko

.christopher. said:


> AEW better hope WWE continues to bury their roster for Roman Reigns. He's an even worse Cena who's run off fans at an incredible rate.
> 
> AEW maintain these numbers, and then kick on by adding some huge interest in getting Punk and Bryan, whilst Reigns continues to run off WWE fans, and it won't be long until they're neck and neck.


Smackdown has stayed pretty much the same since he returned last year. You're a smart guy. You know very well that ratings keep going down for WWE each year, no matter if it's Becky, Rollins, Lashley, Roman, Mcintyre or Lesnar on top. We can't blame the one guy that is keeping Smackdown from sinking further.


----------



## .christopher.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> imagine this as a foundation and then they debut Bryan and Punk
> 
> fookin hell we’ll see some sparks
> 
> oh, and for future reference to all
> 
> Bryan > Punk





Erik. said:


> All seems to be building towards a crescendo.
> 
> And yes, Bryan > Punk.


Bryan is my favourite wrestler not retired, and I've never been a big Punk fan but, make no mistake, CM Punk would be a much bigger signing. Even if his UFC stint and comeback on that WWE talk show took some of the shine off.


----------



## rbl85

AEW real nemesis is back in August


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Klitschko said:


> I like Moxley, so I got to ask. Why are his matches considered garbage matches, but you're one of the biggest supporters of the Baker/Rosa lights out match?


*It's not just the stipulations. He spent a year not selling anything and he's sloppy in general. I stopped watching him after the tag title match on PPV.*


----------



## Klitschko

The Legit DMD said:


> *It's not just the stipulations. He spent a year not selling anything and he's sloppy in general. I stopped watching him after the tag title match on PPV.*


Oh the match against the Bucks at DON? Yea that sure was something lol.


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *It's not just the stipulations. He spent a year not selling anything and he's sloppy in general. I stopped watching him after the tag title match on PPV.*


Every match Moxley wrestles could be found in a best of ECW. This Klitchko guy doesn’t get it, though.


----------



## Rocking Robin

Geert Wilders said:


> I believe AEW is riding its momentum from last week, rather than the return of John Cena. This is some mental gymnastics if you think Cena will cause a ripple across pro wrestling and increase AEWs rating as well. I’d rather wager that people believed Danielson or Punk would debut.


There is no coincidence in statistics just trends. The Raw effect has happened too many times to dismiss out of hand. The reasoning is sound if you believe Raw has been whittled to a mainly hardcore audience & it has been proven aew's small fanbase contains few casuals. When Raw knocks it out of the park those viewers with a strong preference for wrestling are keen for more & aew airing just a few days becomes the beneficiary. This has been shown a number of times & across other programs such as sports, where a highly anticipated match will lead to an overall increase for other games.



DaSlacker said:


> Whilst this is true. It is also possible for AEW to go PG or offer a PG rated show without compromising quality. Wrestling is so politically correct thesedays that you wouldn't even notice. WWE went all around PG too but people noticed because they went full on childish. Likewise AEW is also getting its brand on products - the line of action figures and video games. They're also growing their social media presence. Obviously a lot of work to do but WWE feels like Blockbuster and Toys R Us in their latter days.


Wwe has brand recognition with a proven record of attracting sponsorship & various promotions & placements. It will always be a more attractive proposition for any network. The gap between Wwe & other wrestling companies is insurmountable, so even contemplating it is a waste time.



RoganJosh said:


> What's this rubbish? WWE does not set the scene for fuck all. By your logic this week's NXT would have gained a fair amount when in fact it only saw like 5k rise. Come on man you should stick to the WWE section.
> 
> Does it burn your ass that Danial Bryan and CM Punk have signed?


I'm a big fan of both Danielson & Punk from their time in Roh. I think Danielson is still capable of putting fine matches, while that remains to be seen for Punk, I look forward to him debuting & observing how he is able to integrate with other talent if at all.
Be that as it may, as much as I've enjoyed the work of both, neither can claim to be a true draw in their time. None of this will registered with the mainstream, but I concede that initially there will be a lot of interested wrestling fans myself included.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

bdon said:


> Every match Moxley wrestles could be found in a best of ECW. This Klitchko guy doesn’t get it, though.


*We all hype up our faves, so I'm not gonna hate on him for it. However, I'm taking RVD and the Dudleyz in '97 over anything Moxley has done, ever.*


----------



## $Dolladrew$

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Boom
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1418304154024484865


Isn't this the first back to back million viewers since the debut?

Great numbers next weeks card looks better too.....add in all the secret signings and NJPW guys surely to pop up I'm wagering they go 3 weeks in a row with 1 million viewers.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Also over the last 10 shows they are averaging exactly 1 million viewers......nice.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Good rating. Now aim for 1.2 million next week. Keep going up by at least 50k-100k a week should be the aim.


----------



## La Parka

bdon said:


> Every match Moxley wrestles could be found in a best of ECW. This Klitchko guy doesn’t get it, though.


Maybe the WWE version of ECW.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Good rating. Now aim for 1.2 million next week. Keep going up by at least 50k-100k a week should be the aim.


*Imo they're doing great if they hit a million flat every week. That's all I wanted. Not going to put unrealistic expectations on them.*


----------



## 3venflow




----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> View attachment 104769


*Britt right behind Darby, as usual.*


----------



## bdon

Where’s that little snot-nosed mf’er who used to talk about “such and such are the only people to gain 100k viewers for their quarter hour, geeks Omega and Page are not draws!”

Two weeks in a row, Page and Omega have gained 100k viewers and been the top quarter hour.

Best story in all of wrestling.


----------



## zorori

The way AEW are doing 'hardcore' style matches recently for the main events, makes me wonder: "Why not have a hardcore title?" The fans reactions seem strong and they are booking them anyway...


----------



## Prosper

Multiple weeks in a row now that people were interested in the whole show, no major drop-offs, they were pretty consistent the whole night. It's starting to show more and more every week that most of the roster is over with the AEW audience and people like what they're seeing up and down the card, even on weaker nights like Fyter Fest Night 2.

It's also slowly becoming apparent that there was a segment of people that just didn't want to watch without crowds, which is understandable, and if they did, they would stop watching mid-show. Surprising because I thought this week's show was a 6/10 max and there wasn't a spike. They're on a real hot streak and if they can pull this with a weaker card than the norm, then its possible that they no longer drop under a mil, and that's WITHOUT Bryan or Punk. But let's see how consistent it is, next week's card looks good.


----------



## Ham and Egger

These are some strong numbers! Their 3rd most watched show on company history shows that this is the start of a momentum shift for the company moving forward. You better believe that by the time Punk and Bryan show up they will be neck and neck with Raw in the ratings. 🤯


----------



## thorn123

My pessimism is slowly shifting … now give me consistent months of million plus viewers.

can anyone see a future where dynamite beats raw as a one off … (Not AEW v WWE)


----------



## Randy Lahey

3venflow said:


> View attachment 104769


Well now we know why Darby is on TV every week. His quarter hour was pretty boring and it did the highest number entire show. Usually the 1st hour dips from open


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The brands are coming! The BRANDS are coming 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1418237850928177156


----------



## Randy Lahey

LifeInCattleClass said:


> The brands are coming! The BRANDS are coming
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1418237850928177156


That’s awesome!  UFC is all about getting endorsed by Modelo, and here AEW is getting PBR.

We finally got an adult wrestling show! Did WWE ever sell ads for say Budweiser or anything?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

PPA and JB was just on celebrity family feud


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1418352702652878857


----------



## LongPig666

3venflow said:


>


Ya see. @LifeInCattleClass is on to something


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

LongPig666 said:


> Ya see. @LifeInCattleClass is on to something


Dark Order 4 life👁

😅😇


----------



## Mr316

The momentum is definitely there. The energy is great. I can’t see how they go under a million especially with the fact that they’ll keep getting closer and closer to the PPV…in Chicago!


----------



## Martyn

You can clearly see that during the month of preemptions, theyve simply switched gears to arrange deals with big free agents and hit it hard once theyve been back on the road in their wednesday time slot. Funny how people here and on the net thought they're losing their audience.


----------



## NXT Only

I remember arguing in this thread with people who thought the ratings were dying not realizing how much the split audience was hurting AEW rather than the lack of interest. Like everyone knew it was because NXT went H2H and refused to admit it because they wanted to push their agendas or narratives.


----------



## rbl85

The Legit DMD said:


> *Britt right behind Darby, as usual.*


Her quarters lost viewers and demo


----------



## bdon

Mr316 said:


> The momentum is definitely there. The energy is great. I can’t see how they go under a million especially with the fact that they’ll keep getting closer and closer to the PPV…in Chicago!


I love seeing a like minded person who can heavily critique and heavily praise when both reactions are warranted.

TELL ‘EM, @Mr316!!!


----------



## Mr316

bdon said:


> I love seeing a like minded person who can heavily critique and heavily praise when both reactions are warranted.
> 
> TELL ‘EM, @Mr316!!!


Thank you my friend!


----------



## bdon

Mr316 said:


> Thank you my friend!


Not to hijack the thread, but I was just curious: what did you think of Wednesday’s show? Lot of people seemed to find it very average. I thought it was just paced so well and logical that I couldn’t help but really enjoy it, so I was just curious to see where you fell on that spectrum…


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

3venflow said:


> Olympics will probably impact most ratings over the next two weeks.
> 
> But in the P18-49, Dynamite can now be considered legitimate rival to RAW. 0.44 is higher than several recent RAW episodes. Tony Khan will hope it's still up there when he's renegotiating the TV deal.


I think with all the restrictions in place the Olympics are going to be a bit of a dud this year. Not to mention the time zone shift for Japan might mean a lot of events and coverage ends up being DVR'd and watched later. Just guessing though.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

NXT Only said:


> I remember arguing in this thread with people who thought the ratings were dying not realizing how much the split audience was hurting AEW rather than the lack of interest. Like everyone knew it was because NXT went H2H and refused to admit it because they wanted to push their agendas or narratives.


*Nah, we're not going to rewrite history. They debuted at 1.2 mil after NXT moved and only dropped from there because the shows sucked. Now, the shows are really good and the fans add to the atmosphere, so they're back at a million.*


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *Nah, we're not going to rewrite history. They debuted at 1.2 mil after NXT moved and only dropped from there because the shows sucked. Now, the shows are really good and the fans add to the atmosphere, so they're back at a million.*


Except that most of the Dynamite episodes since then haven’t ‘sucked.’ He’s completely right about NXT (along with the limited crowds during the pandemic) affecting their viewership.

Just admit that you were wrong (for once).


----------



## rbl85

NXT Only said:


> I remember arguing in this thread with people who thought the ratings were dying not realizing how much the split audience was hurting AEW rather than the lack of interest. Like everyone knew it was because NXT went H2H and refused to admit it because they wanted to push their agendas or narratives.


I remember the usual suspects here saying that it was over, that it was going to take weeks or months to get back at the usual level of ratings after the friday shows.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Boom
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1418304154024484865


Impact is so damn sad lol


----------



## Jedah

Anyone going to Grand Slam? There's still some seats available.

I just don't want to go alone.


----------



## Mr316

bdon said:


> Not to hijack the thread, but I was just curious: what did you think of Wednesday’s show? Lot of people seemed to find it very average. I thought it was just paced so well and logical that I couldn’t help but really enjoy it, so I was just curious to see where you fell on that spectrum…


I think it was a fantastic show. Crowd was hot the entire time. Started off with a great match. Closed the show with a great main event. Some very good stuff in between. No complaints. And the AEW crowd really takes the show to a whole different level.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Impact is so damn sad lol


*Yeah, let's debut Jay White to an audience of 100k and act like it never happened. Can't you feel the ELEVATION?*


----------



## bdon

Mr316 said:


> I think it was a fantastic show. Crowd was hot the entire time. Started off with a great match. Closed the show with a great main event. Some very good stuff in between. No complaints. And the AEW crowd really takes the show to a whole different level.


Cool. I felt the same.


----------



## Mister Sinister

1. The labors of Jericho is the smartest thing they have done yet. It's really the only story they have done their entire time on TNT with a hook.
2. But then they bring in a garbage wrestler who only 1 percent of the audience has heard of.
3. And they perform the AEW cycle again. In three weeks, their ratings will be back down because of the garbage fests. Why are they bringing this shit back when they have had success in building their ratings back with wrestling matches? The women, families and sports fans are likely to tune out once again.


----------



## 3venflow

They've increased capacity for the NYC show again. If they open a few more sections, it'll hit 20k.

With the new capacity, assuming all seats are sold, it will be the most attended non-WWE event in America since WCW Boston Brawl on 1/31/98, which was headlined by Sting vs. Hogan and was WCW's 12th highest attendance.

If they bump the attendance to the possible 20,199 and sell them all, it will be the most attended non-WWE event since WCW Slamboree 1999, which was headlined by DDP vs. Nash and was WCW's 9th highest attendance.

As you can see, scalpers have taken a fair few (red dots), but for AEW it's job done whatever happens, since the ticket is sold.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1418615541967773697


----------



## omaroo

Scalpers or not if they get full 20,000+ would be an amazing accomplishment for AEW.

I hate Scalpers btw lol

Am I right in thinking this will be the highest crowd attendance ever for AEW?


----------



## 3venflow

omaroo said:


> Am I right in thinking this will be the highest crowd attendance ever for AEW?


Already guaranteed to be, surpassing Dynamite #1 which did 14,129.

The upcoming Newark show has sold almost 11,000 too, which will put it on par with the debut PPV (Double or Nothing 2019) and possibly surpass it.


----------



## Shock Street

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> I think with all the restrictions in place the Olympics are going to be a bit of a dud this year. Not to mention the time zone shift for Japan might mean a lot of events and coverage ends up being DVR'd and watched later. Just guessing though.


I think the new events will still get a lot of eyes out of curiousity but maybe


----------



## Kishido

Awesome numbers. 

But the show itself wasn't there great in my eyes.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> They've increased capacity for the NYC show again. If they open a few more sections, it'll hit 20k.
> 
> With the new capacity, assuming all seats are sold, it will be the most attended non-WWE event in America since WCW Boston Brawl on 1/31/98, which was headlined by Sting vs. Hogan and was WCW's 12th highest attendance.
> 
> If they bump the attendance to the possible 20,199 and sell them all, it will be the most attended non-WWE event since WCW Slamboree 1999, which was headlined by DDP vs. Nash and was WCW's 9th highest attendance.
> 
> As you can see, scalpers have taken a fair few (red dots), but for AEW it's job done whatever happens, since the ticket is sold.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1418615541967773697


that is a lot less scalpers than what I thought there would be


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Main event did better this week than last bringing back nearly all the viewers that dropped off after the mid-way high. Got the most for demo too, for whatever that’s worth.

Q3 high point is great too and had a lot of stuff in it with the Adam Page/Elite stuff, along with Darby’s match they had Sting and OC there as well. Baker’s match with Nyla did very well too initially, but dropped off a bit for the second part of it (although it was also coupled with the lame press conference and the start of the Andrade segment).


----------



## holy

rich110991 said:


> Lol AEW was buzzing the week before
> 
> Pleased with the rating!!!


AEW did hit the 1 million viewer mark last week, sure, but it can't be denied that John Cena's return has created "the" buzz for wrestling right now. I ran into a stranger last night who told me he used to watch wrestling in the 90s, stopped watching mostly from '05 onwards and became a casual viewer, but he caught Cena's return at MITB last Sunday.


----------



## Klitschko

holy said:


> AEW did hit the 1 million viewer mark last week, sure, but it can't be denied that John Cena's return has created "the" buzz for wrestling right now. I ran into a stranger last night who told me he used to watch wrestling in the 90s, stopped watching mostly from '05 onwards and became a casual viewer, but he caught Cena's return at MITB last Sunday.


It's not Cena. Last week AEW got a million and that was before he even showed up at the ppv a few days later. Ratings increased for everyone a bit, but its mostly because of the crowds returning.


----------



## Martyn

holy said:


> AEW did hit the 1 million viewer mark last week, sure, but it can't be denied that John Cena's return has created "the" buzz for wrestling right now. I ran into a stranger last night who told me he used to watch wrestling in the 90s, stopped watching mostly from '05 onwards and became a casual viewer, but he caught Cena's return at MITB last Sunday.


So he stopped watching when Cena got big and now 16 years later he brought him back? Sounds very reasonable🤭


----------



## ElTerrible

omaroo said:


> Scalpers or not if they get full 20,000+ would be an amazing accomplishment for AEW.
> 
> *I hate Scalpers btw lol*
> 
> Am I right in thinking this will be the highest crowd attendance ever for AEW?


There are probably people that stood in front of MSG 20 years ago trying to sell four tickets and landed in jail, wondering WTF is going on that the internet has basically legalized large scale scalping.


----------



## rich110991

holy said:


> AEW did hit the 1 million viewer mark last week, sure, but it can't be denied that John Cena's return has created "the" buzz for wrestling right now. I ran into a stranger last night who told me he used to watch wrestling in the 90s, stopped watching mostly from '05 onwards and became a casual viewer, but he caught Cena's return at MITB last Sunday.


Wrong

Cena’s return has given WWE buzz, but AEW was already buzzing for having the crowds back the week before, and for having an awesome moment with Omega and Page, and for just generally firing on all cylinders 😬


----------



## holy

For everyone saying Cena had nothing to do with AEW's high viewership this week, keep in mind that we have rarely (if ever?) seen AEW score 1 million viewers one week, and then score even more viewers the next week.

Even during Wrestlemania week, sure it was AEW's first week unopposed against NXT, and also Jericho being on Stone Cold's podcast, but to get such a significant jump to reach 1.2 million viewers had to do something with it being Wrestlemania week as well.

I'm not saying this jump is entirely based on Cena being back: AEW obviously deserves credit for getting this viewership 2 weeks in a row. However, it can't be denied that Cena being back brought extra eyes and attention to wrestling as a whole. WWE is the established brand with decades of recognition, and when they create a buzz, people then start looking at other wrestling as well, such as AEW.

WWE's gain is AEW's gain as well!


----------



## holy

Other thing I forgot to mention, I've barely watched Dynamite over the last month or so. However, I did watch the main event on Wednesday, only finding out it's the Moxley match once I tuned in. I'm not sure exactly why I decided to watch, but I think it had to do with the fact that I watched MITB on Sunday, and watched Raw on Monday after ages, that I felt I should watch Dynamite too, otherwise the wrestling week won't feel complete. There is also this curiosity that "man, what's AEW's response going to be to WWE's buzzing week?"


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Klitschko said:


> It's not Cena. Last week AEW got a million and that was before he even showed up at the ppv a few days later. Ratings increased for everyone a bit, but its mostly because of the crowds returning.


*Keep in mind that they did a million while going against the final game of the NBA Finals in the second hour. This week, they had no real competition, so they gained 100,000.*


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

holy said:


> For everyone saying Cena had nothing to do with AEW's high viewership this week, keep in mind that we have rarely (if ever?) seen AEW score 1 million viewers one week, and then score even more viewers the next week.
> 
> Even during Wrestlemania week, sure it was AEW's first week unopposed against NXT, and also Jericho being on Stone Cold's podcast, but to get such a significant jump to reach 1.2 million viewers had to do something with it being Wrestlemania week as well.
> 
> I'm not saying this jump is entirely based on Cena being back: AEW obviously deserves credit for getting this viewership 2 weeks in a row. However, it can't be denied that Cena being back brought extra eyes and attention to wrestling as a whole. WWE is the established brand with decades of recognition, and when they create a buzz, people then start looking at other wrestling as well, such as AEW.


Nah sorry but this is probably the goofiest take yet. There's no way to draw an actual clear connection between Cena returning and an entirely different company let alone just another brand of WWE getting a one night ratings boost.

If we start down this path might as well start saying that because Paige made a wrestling movie, The Rock's new tv show got great viewership, and GLOW, A&E's wrestling bio's and Dark Side of the Ring were pretty popular that that's the reason for a one night ratings spike.

AEW got their number because fans are back, last weeks show was widely regarded as being awesome and there were rumors of CM Punk and Bryan signing with AEW swirling online before the show started.

Like if you wanted to make the case that in general wrestling seems to be getting more attention in the media from other shows like the above and that has had a positive impact on the mindshare and perception of wrestling as a whole and ratings are up slightly because of that, then yeah sure -- There would be almost no concrete way of proving that, but it sounds reasonable enough to buy. But at the very least that would be a long-term trend not a one night pop.

That's like saying that the WNBA saw a one night spike in ratings because LeBron returned from an injury. Gtfo of here with that nonsense.

edited: Because @RapShepard was thoroughly uninvolved in the matter of this silliness.


----------



## RapShepard

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Nah sorry but this is probably the goofiest take yet. There's no way to draw an actual clear connection between Cena returning and an entirely different company let alone just another brand of WWE getting a one night ratings boost.
> 
> If we start down this path might as well start saying that because Paige made a wrestling movie, The Rock's new tv show got great viewership, and GLOW, A&E's wrestling bio's and Dark Side of the Ring were pretty popular that that's the reason for a one night ratings spike.
> 
> AEW got their number because fans are back, last weeks show was widely regarded as being awesome and there were rumors of CM Punk and Bryan signing with AEW swirling online before the show started.
> 
> Like if you wanted to make the case that in general wrestling seems to be getting more attention in the media from other shows like the above and that has had a positive impact on the mindshare and perception of wrestling as a whole and ratings are up slightly because of that, then yeah sure -- There would be almost no concrete way of proving that, but it sounds reasonable enough to buy. But at the very least that would be a long-term trend not a one night pop.
> 
> That's like saying that the WNBA saw a one night spike in ratings because LeBron returned from an injury. Gtfo of here with that nonsense.


Wait why am I included here I didn't credit Cena for their rating lol


----------



## Rocking Robin

LifeInCattleClass said:


> that is a lot less scalpers than what I thought there would be


How did you come to this conclusion? There's plenty of resales on twitter right now.



holy said:


> Other thing I forgot to mention, I've barely watched Dynamite over the last month or so. However, I did watch the main event on Wednesday, only finding out it's the Moxley match once I tuned in. I'm not sure exactly why I decided to watch, but I think it had to do with the fact that I watched MITB on Sunday, and watched Raw on Monday after ages, that I felt I should watch Dynamite too, otherwise the wrestling week won't feel complete. There is also this curiosity that "man, what's AEW's response going to be to WWE's buzzing week?"


Great post, I enjoy reading your takes. Makes me wonder what people see when they look at the upward tick for ratings with the NBA this past season? Interest in the sport spiked due to the longer season & a number of hotly contested matches. During the playoffs, even blowout series's featuring small market teams with their top players out injured, experienced a flow on from the heighten interest. In a way it reminds me of the number of recreation tennis players you see about here after the Australian Open. The idea aew is an island excluded from the influence of outside events, shows a lack of understanding not just of TV but the world.


----------



## Rocking Robin

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Nah sorry but this is probably the goofiest take yet. There's no way to draw an actual clear connection between Cena returning and an entirely different company let alone just another brand of WWE getting a one night ratings boost.
> 
> If we start down this path might as well start saying that because Paige made a wrestling movie, The Rock's new tv show got great viewership, and GLOW, A&E's wrestling bio's and Dark Side of the Ring were pretty popular that that's the reason for a one night ratings spike.
> 
> AEW got their number because fans are back, last weeks show was widely regarded as being awesome and there were rumors of CM Punk and Bryan signing with AEW swirling online before the show started.
> 
> Like if you wanted to make the case that in general wrestling seems to be getting more attention in the media from other shows like the above and that has had a positive impact on the mindshare and perception of wrestling as a whole and ratings are up slightly because of that, then yeah sure -- There would be almost no concrete way of proving that, but it sounds reasonable enough to buy. But at the very least that would be a long-term trend not a one night pop.
> 
> That's like saying that the WNBA saw a one night spike in ratings because LeBron returned from an injury. Gtfo of here with that nonsense.


It's real & ironic because the premise behind aew, is Tony Khan using the leverage of the Wwe's huge broadcasting income to hopefully lure another network to similarly take a punt on a wrestling.


----------



## NXT Only

The Legit DMD said:


> *Nah, we're not going to rewrite history. They debuted at 1.2 mil after NXT moved and only dropped from there because the shows sucked. Now, the shows are really good and the fans add to the atmosphere, so they're back at a million.*


Thats not what happened. At all.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

NXT Only said:


> Thats not what happened. At all.


*Are you seriously denying facts?







*


----------



## Martyn

John Cena or any other part timer WWE brought back doesnt have any impact on AEW. It's almost completely different audience and the ratings from NXT and Dynamite have proven that when they were going head to head. 

You're all seem to forget the shocking and amazing Malakai Black debut that brought a lot of buzz. Same with Andrade earlier. This plus crowds being back way earlier. AEW is pulling all the stops for a while now.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

RapShepard said:


> Wait why am I included here I didn't credit Cena for their rating lol


lol yeah sorry, was gonna respond to your comment earlier in agreement, but also saying that I thought WWE's TV deals might drop on their next negotiation because USA and FOX are apparently un-impressed at the moment with WWE.

I had your comment in the reply box but just never did anything with it and then forgot it was there when I responded to this other fella. lol sorry for the confusion, literally no connection at all


----------



## RapShepard

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> lol yeah sorry, was gonna respond to your comment earlier in agreement, but also saying that I thought WWE's TV deals might drop on their next negotiation because USA and FOX are apparently un-impressed at the moment with WWE.
> 
> I had your comment in the reply box but just never did anything with it and then forgot it was there when I responded to this other fella. lol sorry for the confusion, literally no connection at all


Got you lol, but yeah I think wrestling in general is safe for getting more money just because Networks are sooo desperate to have live TV lol. I'm honestly surprised no wrestling company in the US consistently offers to sell mat space.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

RapShepard said:


> Got you lol, but yeah I think wrestling in general is safe for getting more money just because Networks are sooo desperate to have live TV lol. I'm honestly surprised no wrestling company in the US consistently offers to sell mat space.


Mat space as in advertising deals for logo's on the mat or apron? Renting a studio wrestling venue? Sorry don't know what you mean?


----------



## RapShepard

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Mat space as in advertising deals for logo's on the mat or apron? Renting a studio wrestling venue? Sorry don't know what you mean?


Yeah mat space as in advertising logos lol


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

Rocking Robin said:


> It's real & ironic because the premise behind aew, is Tony Khan using the leverage of the Wwe's huge broadcasting income to hopefully lure another network to similarly take a punt on a wrestling.


That doesn't mean that Cena popped this Wednesdays rating? Wtf are you talking about?

Wrestling is a thing and if you can put on a wrestling show that is good enough to be worth money to broadcasters then yeah you can make bank 🤷‍♂️.

Sitcoms are a thing and have been for like 70+ years, does that mean that everyone that has made a sitcom after Seinfeld is simply using the leverage of Seinfeld to lure another network to take a punt on their show?

If you've got a good product that's what you're leveraging. Cena didn't pop a rating for AEW, quit being silly.


----------



## DaSlacker

holy said:


> For everyone saying Cena had nothing to do with AEW's high viewership this week, keep in mind that we have rarely (if ever?) seen AEW score 1 million viewers one week, and then score even more viewers the next week.
> 
> Even during Wrestlemania week, sure it was AEW's first week unopposed against NXT, and also Jericho being on Stone Cold's podcast, but to get such a significant jump to reach 1.2 million viewers had to do something with it being Wrestlemania week as well.
> 
> I'm not saying this jump is entirely based on Cena being back: AEW obviously deserves credit for getting this viewership 2 weeks in a row. However, it can't be denied that Cena being back brought extra eyes and attention to wrestling as a whole. WWE is the established brand with decades of recognition, and when they create a buzz, people then start looking at other wrestling as well, such as AEW.
> 
> WWE's gain is AEW's gain as well!


If true then that's good for AEW. Cena's return could be short lived because he's filming that Argyle movie and possibly another season of Peacemaker. 

Say Cena draws more eyes to wrestling, then quickly disappears. At the same time Punk comes in, followed by Bryan. That's the best chance you could get of pulling in more repeat customers 

Though WWE could also pull a double turn at SummerSlam and put the title on heel Cena. Doing similar to what they did with Brock in 2017. That would definitely put the momentum back on WWE's side.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

RapShepard said:


> Yeah mat space as in advertising logos lol


Heard that that shit can get pretty slippery after a couple matches so a lot of the wrestlers don't really like it. Plus there is the possibility of coming off looking like NASCAR, with the whole walking billboard effect -- that's why they wouldn't let other wrestlers outside of Brock have sponsors on their gear. For Brock with the UFC connection it made sense and helped offset his price tag.. but man.. it would be real awkward seeing the Undertaker come out with a big Depends logo across his ass 😆. Then you run in to new debuts just being known by what they're wearing -- Karrion Kross known as the Snickers bar guy, Kevin Owens wearing the Frito Lay shorts, Darby Allin with Hot Topic tattooed across his chest lol. 

Yeah I'll pass 😋


----------



## bdon

I see a lot of E drones found their way to the AEW forum of late.


----------



## BroncoBuster3

bdon said:


> I see a lot of E drones found their way to the AEW forum of late.


I've never understood this. Doesn't everyone just press 'new' and open whatever thread they find interesting, no matter the section or is that just me?


----------



## La Parka

BroncoBuster3 said:


> I've never understood this. Doesn't everyone just press 'new' and open whatever thread they find interesting, no matter the section or is that just me?


I know I do.

If you click something like “smackdown” you’re likely going to have an outdated “who do you think will win MITB” poll on the first page. No reason to go to specific sections.


----------



## bdon

BroncoBuster3 said:


> I've never understood this. Doesn't everyone just press 'new' and open whatever thread they find interesting, no matter the section or is that just me?


I don’t watch the E. Never have really, minus the few months that Sting worked there, and pretty damn sure I never will. I have no reason to check that section.

Minus @RapShepard tagging me in a post about someone who hates Roman more than I do Cody, which I assure you is lies lol


----------



## Aedubya

There are some absolute wallopers on here 
This thread particularly


----------



## Randy Lahey

bdon said:


> I see a lot of E drones found their way to the AEW forum of late.


Ignore feature is the best thing on this site. If I see nonsense being written, boom ignore and I don’t ever have to read them again


----------



## taker_2004

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Like if you wanted to make the case that in general wrestling seems to be getting more attention in the media from other shows like the above and that has had a positive impact on the mindshare and perception of wrestling as a whole and ratings are up slightly because of that, then yeah sure -- There would be almost no concrete way of proving that, but it sounds reasonable enough to buy.


Just wanted to say I thoroughly like the cut of your jib. You paraphrase arguments, make concessions, and provide counter-points that directly address the thesis.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

taker_2004 said:


> Just wanted to say I thoroughly like the cut of your jib. You paraphrase arguments, make concessions, and provide counter-points that directly address the thesis.


Well thank you very kindly


----------



## 3venflow

Helluva deal this and for a good cause.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1419030604264484869


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1418528950800699393


----------



## Chan Hung

The Legit DMD said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1418528950800699393


I knew that Matt Hardy vs Christian would draw. People laugh. But last year Hardy vs Orton was one of Raw's biggest ratings lol.


----------



## One Shed

Hearing that Yawn Cena is back makes we want to watch AEW more.


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> Hearing that Yawn Cena is back makes we want to watch AEW more.


LOLCenaWins


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

The real question surrounding the Bryan and Punk rumours is whether or not the ratings will bump big with them joining AEW, or whether it's going to be sustained. Because most of the people who are fans of Bryan and Punk are ALREADY watching AEW, so while they'll bring a small bump, I can't see huge droves of fans tuning in to see them when most of the audience is already there that would be excited. I see a bump of around 50,000 or 100,000 maximum for a couple of weeks, but it won't last.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> The real question surrounding the Bryan and Punk rumours is whether or not the ratings will bump big with them joining AEW, or whether it's going to be sustained. Because most of the people who are fans of Bryan and Punk are ALREADY watching AEW, so while they'll bring a small bump, I can't see huge droves of fans tuning in to see them when most of the audience is already there that would be excited. I see a bump of around 50,000 or 100,000 maximum for a couple of weeks, but it won't last.


i think a lot more wwe fans will tune in / at least for two weeks

i would not be shocked to see it spike to 1.4 - 1.5


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i think a lot more wwe fans will tune in / at least for two weeks
> 
> i would not be shocked to see it spike to 1.4 - 1.5


It's possible but I don't think Bryan and Punk will spike the ratings up by nearly half a million. Going from around a million to another 500k on top of it is a little out of reach I reckon.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> It's possible but I don't think Bryan and Punk will spike the ratings up by nearly half a million. Going from around a million to another 500k on top of it is a little out of reach I reckon.


luckily time will tell


----------



## Geert Wilders

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> The real question surrounding the Bryan and Punk rumours is whether or not the ratings will bump big with them joining AEW, or whether it's going to be sustained. Because most of the people who are fans of Bryan and Punk are ALREADY watching AEW, so while they'll bring a small bump, I can't see huge droves of fans tuning in to see them when most of the audience is already there that would be excited. I see a bump of around 50,000 or 100,000 maximum for a couple of weeks, but it won't last.


might agree with this, except for the fact that Punk brought in ~150k for WWE's chat show. That's just a chat show.

I think realistically 200-300k. No more and I agree that they may tune in for a few weeks then leave again. However, what must happen is Tony Khan must put on the literal best possible Dynamite shows when Punk and DB debut. No filler, all action. I would think at least two -three months of Dynamites should be perfectly executed. Give us the best storylines and matches. People may then stick around. It must be unmissable. I don't have high hopes.


----------



## 3venflow

6,100+ tickets now sold for Fight for the Fallen this Wednesday. A huge increase on last time they were in Charlotte.


----------



## rbl85

Geert Wilders said:


> might agree with this, except for the fact that Punk brought in ~150k for WWE's chat show. That's just a chat show.
> 
> I think realistically 200-300k. No more and I agree that they may tune in for a few weeks then leave again. However, what must happen is Tony Khan must put on the literal best possible Dynamite shows when Punk and DB debut. No filler, all action. I would think at least two -three months of Dynamites should be perfectly executed. Give us the best storylines and matches. People may then stick around. It must be unmissable. I don't have high hopes.


I think it might do better than that the first week but only the first week.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> It's possible but I don't think Bryan and Punk will spike the ratings up by nearly half a million. Going from around a million to another 500k on top of it is a little out of reach I reckon.


*Mirroring the 2019 debut numbers is realistic for the Dynamite after All Out if Punk debuts there.*


----------



## omaroo

3venflow said:


> 6,100+ tickets now sold for Fight for the Fallen this Wednesday. A huge increase on last time they were in Charlotte.


Really impressive for the Charlotte show. 

What's the total capacity for the arena?


----------



## NXT Only

The Legit DMD said:


> *Are you seriously denying facts?
> View attachment 104977
> *


Friday Night shows, playoff basketball, etc…

My point was about when AEW literally first started. I was told they lost half their audience. We emphasized it was due to most watching two wrestling shows plus naturally tuning in and out. Now they’re unopposed by another wrestling show and you see the number is consistently higher.

Has nothing literally nothing to do with the show quality.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

NXT Only said:


> Friday Night shows, playoff basketball, etc…
> 
> My point was about when AEW literally first started. I was told they lost half their audience. We emphasized it was due to most watching two wrestling shows plus naturally tuning in and out. Now they’re unopposed by another wrestling show and you see the number is consistently higher.
> 
> Has nothing literally nothing to do with the show quality.


*Horrible excuses. They did a million last week against the last game of the NBA finals, yet you're trying to blame the playoffs. The fact of the matter is that they lost viewers and dropped to 800 k in spite of having no head-to-head wrestling competition, so that ain't it. The show quality has improved tremendously, and it's no coincidence that they've done some of their best numbers without flooding the show with jobbers and awful Young Bucks matches.*


----------



## DammitChrist

Honestly, I can't wait until the Young Bucks end up having more good TV matches soon, and for the numbers to still remain strong for them (proving this bad assumption about them "killing" viewership wrong) just for that truth to end up getting ignored


----------



## La Parka

DammitChrist said:


> Honestly, I can't wait until the Young Bucks end up having more TV matches soon, and for the numbers to still remain strong for them (proving this bad assumption about them "killing" viewership wrong) just for that truth to end up getting ignored


More tv matches? Are they going to wrestle multiple times a night? Lmao


----------



## DammitChrist

La Parka said:


> More tv matches? Are they going to wrestle multiple times a night? Lmao


That phrasing did sound a bit off, but I meant them wrestling more often in different weeks (since they don't really wrestle on TV every week due to them cycling out their talents)


----------



## Prosper

TNT seems to be pretty happy as we all know. Another press release after the success of Fyter Fest and recent ratings wins:

*"TNT’s AEW: DYNAMITE continues domination as Wednesday’s #1 cable program in P18-49 for the second week in a row. See highlights below:

AEW: Dynamite

575K P18-49 / 150K P18-34 / 1.15M P2+

Week 93 of AEW was up 11% vs. last week

Year-to-date, AEW: Dynamite is up +5% in P18-49 and +3% in total viewers.

Night two of FYTER FEST was the strongest premiere for AEW this year in P18-49.

Both nights of FYTER FEST were up significantly vs. last year, +48% in both P18-49 and total viewers.

Both nights of FYTER FEST 2021 were the #1 cable program of the day.

Night two of FYTER FEST featured AEW Women’s World Champion Dr. Britt Baker, D.M.D. vs. Nyla Rose, a Texas Death Match with IWGP US Champ Jon Moxley vs. Lance Archer, Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Spears, Orange Cassidy vs. The Blade, and Frankie Kazarian vs. Doc Gallows.

Founded by CEO, GM and Head of Creative Tony Khan, AEW is a new professional wrestling league headlined by Cody & Brandi Rhodes, Kenny Omega, The Young Bucks (Matt & Nick Jackson), Chris Jericho, Sting, Hangman Page, MJF, Miro, Darby Allin, Hikaru Shida, Dr. Britt Baker and Jon Moxley. For the first time in many years, AEW is offering an alternative to mainstream wrestling, with a roster of world-class talent that is injecting new spirit, freshness and energy into the industry.

AEW: DYNAMITE on TNT airs Wednesday nights from 8-10 p.m. ET and continues to attract the youngest wrestling audience on television. AEW’s multi-platform content also includes AEW DARK and AEW DARK: ELEVATION, two weekly professional wrestling YouTube series, BEING THE ELITE, a weekly behind-the-scenes YouTube series, and AEW UNRESTRICTED, a weekly podcast series. The new, hour-long show AEW: RAMPAGE debuts Friday, Aug. 13, on TNT at 10 p.m. ET."*


----------



## NXT Only

The Legit DMD said:


> *Horrible excuses. They did a million last week against the last game of the NBA finals, yet you're trying to blame the playoffs. The fact of the matter is that they lost viewers and dropped to 800 k in spite of having no head-to-head wrestling competition, so that ain't it. The show quality has improved tremendously, and it's no coincidence that they've done some of their best numbers without flooding the show with jobbers and awful Young Bucks matches.*


You and others do not know what losing viewers is. As you constantly show us.

Fans cannot predetermine the quality of a show. If they didn’t tune in the week before and the show was good doesn’t mean they’ll watch the next week because they knew the show was good.

The biggest factor in the drop was always NXT. The pandemic shows ratings were in decline everywhere so it was trending with normal television.

Now the world is open, crowds are back, no competition H2H and normal time slot. Boom 1M(give or take) as we always said.


----------



## 3venflow

Dynamite in Brittsburgh update. I think this one could be topped by a Britt title defense.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1419476387958771713
And this week's show.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1419436770681409539


----------



## 3venflow

Dynamite beat Smackdown in a demo last week. Only one demo but I believe it may be the first time they've ever topped Smackdown in any category?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1419769525118111757


----------



## Cube2

after what i saw on raw tonight, i can see aew beating raw in the rating some time this year.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

3venflow said:


> Dynamite beat Smackdown in a demo last week. Only one demo but I believe it may be the first time they've ever topped Smackdown in any category?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1419769525118111757


Interesting, I wonder if this is because of an older average viewership for broadcast networks vs cable.


----------



## Randy Lahey

AEW drawing more 35-49 men on Cable than Smackdown got on free network TV is insane. 

That’s an awful rating for Smackdown. Think of what Fox paid for that show. They should have never bought it and kept their original friday lineup centered around Last Man Standing


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

3venflow said:


> Dynamite beat Smackdown in a demo last week. Only one demo but I believe it may be the first time they've ever topped Smackdown in any category?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1419769525118111757


Let's also mention that the Olympic Opening Ceremony was on Friday night too, not an excuse but it explains it.


----------



## Prosper

AEW looking to expand internationally with Dynamite and Rampage. Love to see the continual growth.

*Much has been said about AEW’s TV deals in the USA, with new show Rampage set to occupy a 10pm Friday night slot on TNT, before flagship show Dynamite moves to TBS at some point in early 2022.

Ahead of Rampage’s debut however, it is believed that AEW is working hard on securing multiple international TV deals for Rampage before its debut on August 13, per a report from Dave Meltzer on Wrestling Observer Radio.

It is expected that UK fans will be able to watch Rampage on FITE, with live broadcasts widely expected to be included in the monthly AEW subscription package. This is also believed to be true for fans in Australia and New Zealand.

Whilst nothing is confirmed as of yet, it is also believed that Rampage will air on TSN in Canada, with the network telling fans to ‘stay tuned’ when asked about the show.

AEW is also understood to be negotiating with networks in India, Brazil, Germany, Italy, France, and parts of South America and Africa.*


----------



## 3venflow

So, Grand Slam has now officially sold the most tickets since the late 90s for a non-WWE show. They've now sold more than the 16,534 for the ROH/NJPW MSG show.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1420055295984812033


----------



## Erik.

3venflow said:


> So, Grand Slam has now officially sold the most tickets since the late 90s for a non-WWE show. They've now sold more than the 16,534 for the ROH/NJPW MSG show.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1420055295984812033


Good on them. 

Should be one hell of a show!


----------



## Mr316

3venflow said:


> So, Grand Slam has now officially sold the most tickets since the late 90s for a non-WWE show. They've now sold more than the 16,534 for the ROH/NJPW MSG show.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1420055295984812033


This show will be historic.


----------



## omaroo

3venflow said:


> So, Grand Slam has now officially sold the most tickets since the late 90s for a non-WWE show. They've now sold more than the 16,534 for the ROH/NJPW MSG show.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1420055295984812033


Be awesome if it exceeds 20,000 in the coming weeks. 

Man got goosebumps how electric the crowd will be on that night.


----------



## omaroo

Prosper said:


> AEW looking to expand internationally with Dynamite and Rampage. Love to see the continual growth.
> 
> *Much has been said about AEW’s TV deals in the USA, with new show Rampage set to occupy a 10pm Friday night slot on TNT, before flagship show Dynamite moves to TBS at some point in early 2022.
> 
> Ahead of Rampage’s debut however, it is believed that AEW is working hard on securing multiple international TV deals for Rampage before its debut on August 13, per a report from Dave Meltzer on Wrestling Observer Radio.
> 
> It is expected that UK fans will be able to watch Rampage on FITE, with live broadcasts widely expected to be included in the monthly AEW subscription package. This is also believed to be true for fans in Australia and New Zealand.
> 
> Whilst nothing is confirmed as of yet, it is also believed that Rampage will air on TSN in Canada, with the network telling fans to ‘stay tuned’ when asked about the show.
> 
> AEW is also understood to be negotiating with networks in India, Brazil, Germany, Italy, France, and parts of South America and Africa.*


Awesome news with international deals. 

As UK fan I don't mine fans having to use FITE to watch AEW live but if I were TK I would try to sort a TV deal in UK with a big network like sky or similar. 

There is definately money there for AEW to make on international TV deals.


----------



## La Parka

TSN possibly getting rampage is great news.

AEW seems to do very well in getting the networks set up for their shows in international markets


----------



## .christopher.

I don't watch AEW live but, if they sign Punk and Bryan, I would. ITV4 definitely isn't the long term place so I hope Sky or BT get them and, in doing so, I'll watch live in the middle of the night like I used to do for the WWE


----------



## DammitChrist

.christopher. said:


> I don't watch AEW live but, if they sign Punk and Bryan, I would. ITV4 definitely isn't the long term place so I hope Sky or BT get them and, in doing so, I'll watch live in the middle of the night like I used to do for the WWE


Yep, I think CM Punk and Daniel Bryan signing with AEW is pretty much confirmed at this point.


----------



## .christopher.

DammitChrist said:


> Yep, I think CM Punk and Daniel Bryan signing with AEW is pretty much confirmed at this point.


Exciting times! Just annoying that ITV don't show it live because I'd definitely stay up for it if so.


----------



## Klitschko

So is Grand Slam a ppv or just an episode of Dynamite?


----------



## Prosper

.christopher. said:


> Exciting times! Just annoying that ITV don't show it live because I'd definitely stay up for it if so.


Just find a stream or watch on FITE TV, I think staying up for the debut of Punk would be worth it. I know it gets late as shit for UK fans though.




Klitschko said:


> So is Grand Slam a ppv or just an episode of Dynamite?


Its a Dynamite TV special, but it’ll be PPV quality if the hype lives up to it which I’m sure it will being that they’re in NYC with their biggest crowd ever.


----------



## Klitschko

Thx @Prosper. That sucks to me. That's a great name. Call me WWE brainwashed but I was kind of hoping that would be their Wrestlemania level ppv event.


----------



## Prosper

Klitschko said:


> Thx @Prosper. That sucks to me. That's a great name. Call me WWE brainwashed but I was kind of hoping that would be their Wrestlemania level ppv event.


Yeah for a 20k crowd you would think it would be on PPV lol, seems like Tony definitely cares about putting more big moments on TV as opposed to PPV, but I ain’t complaining. Grand Slam is like 3 weeks after All Out so even if it was a PPV it would be too close. I think if anything DON is probably their version of Mania.


----------



## 3venflow

My guess is they'll tape Rampage and/or Elevation either side of Dynamite in NYC and include some big-ish matches on those. They won't want to waste such an occasion/attendance on just the five matches they can get on Dynamite.

A lot of fans have stayed behind for post-Dynamite Dark or Elevation tapings recently.


----------



## omaroo

3venflow said:


> My guess is they'll tape Rampage and/or Elevation either side of Dynamite in NYC and include some big-ish matches on those. They won't want to waste such an occasion/attendance on just the five matches they can get on Dynamite.
> 
> A lot of fans have stayed behind for post-Dynamite Dark or Elevation tapings recently.


Still surprised they are doing such long dark and elevation shows. 

Thought be under an hour now they are back on the road.


----------



## .christopher.

Prosper said:


> Just find a stream or watch on FITE TV, I think staying up for the debut of Punk would be worth it. I know it gets late as shit for UK fans though.


I definitely want to see his (& Bryan's) debuts live so, as you say, it will have to be one or the other. I personally don't have a problem with the time it's on as I'm a night owl anyway.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

3venflow said:


> My guess is they'll tape Rampage and/or Elevation either side of Dynamite in NYC and include some big-ish matches on those. They won't want to waste such an occasion/attendance on just the five matches they can get on Dynamite.
> 
> A lot of fans have stayed behind for post-Dynamite Dark or Elevation tapings recently.


Thats great but they need to cool it with the hour preshow. Fans are tired out by the time Dynamite starts.


----------



## Mister Sinister

I turned on Raw to give it a try this week. F'n Sheamus is on everytime I turn that show on. He is puke in the ring. The WWE style is just unwatchable, but Sheamus is like watching Sid Vicious or Lex Luger on a night when they're phoning it in. The WWE are one stage removed from the Doink Era right now.


----------



## 3venflow

Ticket update for tomorrow. A lot of movement on Tuesday, I believe Matt Hardy did some local work to promote the show. There'll probably be a walk-up before the show, too. They've sold more than double what they did last time at this arena.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1420184241539796996


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

The Olympics are on at the moment, you'd have to wonder if it'll effect the ratings like it has for SmackDown and RAW, it's not an excuse but you have to wonder.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

NXT Only said:


> You and others do not know what losing viewers is. As you constantly show us.
> 
> Fans cannot predetermine the quality of a show. If they didn’t tune in the week before and the show was good doesn’t mean they’ll watch the next week because they knew the show was good.
> 
> The biggest factor in the drop was always NXT. The pandemic shows ratings were in decline everywhere so it was trending with normal television.
> 
> Now the world is open, crowds are back, no competition H2H and normal time slot. Boom 1M(give or take) as we always said.


*Except you were just proven wrong with actual numbers that showed drops from 1.2 mil to 800 k without direct competition. Stop lying and deflecting when it's literally undeniable.*


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *Except you were just proven wrong with actual numbers that showed drops from 1.2 mil to 800 k without direct competition. Stop lying and deflecting when it's literally undeniable.*


No, you didn't "prove him wrong" at all. He already explained the situation regarding their limited crowd capacity under the pandemic, and with NXT affecting the viewership for about 85% of AEW's existence too. Quit dismissing his valid argument just because you want to continue pretending that they "lost" their audience due to "poor" shows.


----------



## rbl85

The Chicago and New York shows are at risk because of Covid


----------



## RoganJosh

I thought vaccine uptake was going well in the US? Hopefully not many hospitalisations up there. Here in the UK it seems to be calming down again. Vaccine uptake has really helped.

I hope you guys don't go into lockdown mode again otherwise this return of crowds will be short lived. Need to hear the pop when DB and Punk debut, it will be like Stone Cold level reactions.


----------



## Aedubya

RoganJosh said:


> Here in the UK it seems to be calming down again.


No it isn't
More sweeping generalisations


----------



## RoganJosh

Aedubya said:


> No it isn't
> More sweeping generalisations


Case numbers are half of what they were a week ago. The 100 plus deaths relate to the recent wave, death numbers will go back down if the case rates continue to fall. This may be calm before the next storm though.

Covid will never truly disappear but as Sajid Javid says we need to somehow live alongside it. My American friends, get the vaccine, let's keep hospitalisations down.


----------



## Prosper

RoganJosh said:


> I thought vaccine uptake was going well in the US? Hopefully not many hospitalisations up there. Here in the UK it seems to be calming down again. Vaccine uptake has really helped.
> 
> I hope you guys don't go into lockdown mode again otherwise this return of crowds will be short lived. Need to hear the pop when DB and Punk debut, it will be like Stone Cold level reactions.


If they absolutely have to lock things down again, which I doubt will happen, I just hope it happens after Grand Slam. AEW was pretty successful at Dailys Place but I would hate if they're stuck there again for months on end. Pre-Covid and the last 2 months have taught us that AEW is at their absolute best on tour with crowds.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Aedubya said:


> No it isn't
> More sweeping generalisations


What are you talking about? Deaths and hospitalizations have stayed low despite high case numbers. In January nearly 2000 people a day were dying with this number of infections compared to 100 at moment. It's not as serious as it was now most of the country is vaccinated.


----------



## rbl85

A PG Attitude said:


> What are you talking about? Deaths and hospitalizations have stayed low despite high case numbers. In January nearly 2000 people a day were dying with this number of infections compared to 100 at moment. It's not as serious as it was now most of the country is vaccinated.


You can't compare a virus in july/august with a virus in January, there is a reason why virus are killing more people in winter than in summer.


----------



## Klitschko

Mister Sinister said:


> I turned on Raw to give it a try this week. F'n Sheamus is on everytime I turn that show on. He is puke in the ring. The WWE style is just unwatchable, but Sheamus is like watching Sid Vicious or Lex Luger on a night when they're phoning it in. The WWE are one stage removed from the Doink Era right now.


What's wrong with his style? I enjoy his stiff brawling style a lot. One of the better guys in ring for me.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Klitschko said:


> What's wrong with his style? I enjoy his stiff brawling style a lot. One of the better guys in ring for me.


I've always thought he's really good in the ring. He lays his shit in.


----------



## Martyn

So they've announced Rampage at the United Center and teased a program with Allin and Punk. Are they going to draw more fans there than in New York for Grand Slam?

Theres a possibility they will do over 20000 here


----------



## Erik.

Who cares what rating they get this week.

AEW's B-Show is going to do 20,000 fans in it's second ever show lol


----------



## Prosper

Martyn said:


> So they've announced Rampage at the United Center and teased a program with Allin and Punk. Are they going to draw more fans there than in New York for Grand Slam?
> 
> Theres a possibility they will do over 20000 here


Lol they're all selling out


----------



## shandcraig

im confused on the rampage model as its only a 1 hour show and they pushing it to the moon with huge arenas. they must have a good formula for this.


----------



## French Connection

Can someone tell me at what time Rampage is gonna be aired?


----------



## Asuka842

Rampage is going to be interesting.


----------



## Martyn

shandcraig said:


> im confused on the rampage model as its only a 1 hour show and they pushing it to the moon with huge arenas. they must have a good formula for this.


They will tape Dark and Elevation there too.


----------



## elo

French Connection said:


> Can someone tell me at what time Rampage is gonna be aired?


10pm eastern on Friday's starting August 13th.

The "First Dance" August 20th Rampage will surely be a live TNT special 2 hour show and start an hour or two earlier though.


----------



## DammitChrist

I wonder if they end up moving Rampage to Saturday evenings (6 PM EST through 8 PM EST) later at some point in order to hold more viewers.


----------



## A PG Attitude

shandcraig said:


> im confused on the rampage model as its only a 1 hour show and they pushing it to the moon with huge arenas. they must have a good formula for this.


Likely to be a one hour show for the TV audience, 2-3 hours for the live audience. Would be cool if they did a YouTube Preshow for this one.


----------



## bdon

3venflow said:


> So, Grand Slam has now officially sold the most tickets since the late 90s for a non-WWE show. *They've now sold more than the 16,534 for the ROH/NJPW MSG show.*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1420055295984812033


You mean that ROH/NJPW Supershow the fans were expecting to see Omega and Okada main eventing? That one..?

“Kenny Omega is not a drawwww..” hahahahahah


----------



## A PG Attitude

bdon said:


> You mean that ROH/NJPW Supershow the fans were expecting to see Omega and Okada main eventing? That one..?
> 
> “Kenny Omega is not a drawwww..” hahahahahah


Yeah if fans had known they werent gonna be there i doubt it hits 10000 tickets sold.


----------



## bdon

A PG Attitude said:


> Yeah if fans had known they werent gonna be there i doubt it hits 10000 tickets sold.


They certainly didn’t sell those tickets with the expectation of Jay White in place of Kenny, and I really enjoy Switchblade. Hah


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> They certainly didn’t sell those tickets with the expectation of Jay White in place of Kenny, and I really enjoy Switchblade. Hah


for sure

everybody thought Kenny / Bucks / Hangman / Cody was going to be there

it was announced hot off All In


----------



## shandcraig

A PG Attitude said:


> Likely to be a one hour show for the TV audience, 2-3 hours for the live audience. Would be cool if they did a YouTube Preshow for this one.



i know but exactly. so 20 percent arena for 1 hour show ? never been done


----------



## 3venflow

A fair number of Rampage shows are being promoted as joint tapings with Dynamite. Like Pittsburgh. It'll vary, but TK may as well fill up the coffers while AEW is hot by running these big shows since the demand seems to be there.

They really should be trying to get a two hour special for this. What else is going to be on TNT on a late Friday night that will rate better than AEW?

Obviously the timeslot is going to impact the rating, but it should establish Rampage as a major brand for AEW, instead of the new WCW Thunder.

Also: The Friday night timeslot is going to be reviewed after AEW moves to TBS, so if it fares well in the timeslot, it may have a shot at primetime on Saturday or something.


----------



## omaroo

I really hope some time down the line they make Rampage 2 hours and hopefully move it to Saturdays in the 8pm or 9pm timeslot. Could really make rampage a bigger deal than having it on Fridays imo.


----------



## omaroo

Anyone expect the ratings to drop this week under a million especially due to the Olympics being on?


----------



## Martyn

omaroo said:


> Anyone expect the ratings to drop this week under a million especially due to the Olympics being on?


It's a mystery. Olympics will hurt the rating, but it's been a very strong show and with the whole Punk/Bryan talk they've had fantastic momentum going in. Maybe they wont draw more than last week, but I'd expect over a million either way.


----------



## Erik.

omaroo said:


> Anyone expect the ratings to drop this week under a million especially due to the Olympics being on?


I think they'll be under a million because I don't expect them to be over a million every single week.


----------



## A PG Attitude

I think it will be over a million.


----------



## Aedubya

.98


----------



## Mr316

Very tough to predict. Started off very strong. Closed the show very strong. But lots of dull moments in between. Not sure the Archer match and FTR/PnP did very well.

Gonna be very close to 1 million but over or under, tough to call.


----------



## rich110991

Please let it be 1.1 minimum 🙈


----------



## bdon

3venflow said:


> A fair number of Rampage shows are being promoted as joint tapings with Dynamite. Like Pittsburgh. It'll vary, but TK may as well fill up the coffers while AEW is hot by running these big shows since the demand seems to be there.
> 
> They really should be trying to get a two hour special for this. What else is going to be on TNT on a late Friday night that will rate better than AEW?
> 
> Obviously the timeslot is going to impact the rating, but it should establish Rampage as a major brand for AEW, instead of the new WCW Thunder.
> 
> Also: The Friday night timeslot is going to be reviewed after AEW moves to TBS, so if it fares well in the timeslot, it may have a shot at primetime on Saturday or something.


Is the Pittsburgh show really going to be part of the Dynamite tapings?


----------



## 3venflow

bdon said:


> Is the Pittsburgh show really going to be part of the Dynamite tapings?


I messed up there, that's on separate days. But some other shows will be joint tapings, like this one:


----------



## Erik.

1,108,000 viewers.
0.45

God damn.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Erik. said:


> 1,108,000 viewers.
> 0.45
> 
> God damn.


Is that the rating or a prediction?


----------



## 3venflow

That is excellent considering the Olympic effect and all.

They've done over a million three weeks in a row for the first time since episodes 1~3. And the demo is outstanding.


----------



## Erik.

A PG Attitude said:


> Is that the rating or a prediction?


The rating.


----------



## bdon

3venflow said:


> I messed up there, that's on separate days. But some other shows will be joint tapings, like this one:
> 
> View attachment 105303


Goddammit man! I was stoked thinking I was getting 3 hours of AEW vs 2! Lmao

Couldn’t grab front row seats this time, so you pervs won’t have to worry about the Mrs (aka hot soccer mom) being in the front row with our kids this time. Lol


----------



## A PG Attitude

Raw did 0.49 in the demo this week. I've no doubt Dynamite will beat Raw in the demo at least once before the end of this year.


----------



## bdon

A PG Attitude said:


> Is that the rating or a prediction?


Heh.

It’s awesome that I feel deflated by 1.1m lol


----------



## Erik.

A PG Attitude said:


> Raw did 0.49 in the demo this week. I've no doubt Dynamite will beat Raw in the demo at least once before the end of this year.


Its already beaten Raw in the demo this year. Unless you mean again?


----------



## DammitChrist

July has been a such a GREAT month for them!!


----------



## A PG Attitude

Erik. said:


> Its already beaten Raw in the demo this year. Unless you mean again?


In the same week? I know it's beaten it in some of the demos but not the 18-49 demo as far as I'm aware.

Edit... just looked it up and they did beat Raw in December.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Wow another 1.1 million. That’s great.


----------



## Mr316

Amazing number. The momentum is there!


----------



## Erik.

A PG Attitude said:


> In the same week? I know it's beaten it in some of the demos but not the 18-49 demo as far as I'm aware.


I thought it beat Raw in the demo on Fyter Fest night one earlier in the month?


----------



## Chan Hung

This was against Olympics right? If so, very solid.


----------



## MoxleyMoxx

Gage watched by a million people










__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1420846118506741766


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Cool, the AEW buzz continues

The ratings for the first few shows with Punk will be interesting


----------



## Geert Wilders

Nobody cares about the Olympics.

This is a really good rating. AEW is on fire. August-September is about to be something else.


----------



## Prosper

Hell yeah, 1.1 mil that's awesome. That would mean that audience retention through the entire episode once again remained high and most of their major stars weren't even booked. They are on fire right now.

With Punk and Bryan they should be doing 1.4 minimum you would think.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Erik. said:


> I thought it beat Raw in the demo on Fyter Fest night one earlier in the month?


Only in the male 18-49 and 35-49 but not the key demo.


----------



## Mr316

I’m calling it now. The AEW show in New York will beat Raw in the ratings.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Mr316 said:


> I’m calling it now. The AEW show in New York will beat Raw in the ratings.


You'd have to think so wouldn't you. Potential of Punk, Bryan and Tanahashi on the show and the intrigue of it being their first outdoor stadium show will bring a lot of WWE viewers who have been on the fence about watching AEW.


----------



## Prosper

bdon said:


> Goddammit man! I was stoked thinking I was getting 3 hours of AEW vs 2! Lmao
> *
> Couldn’t grab front row seats this time, so you pervs won’t have to worry about the Mrs (aka hot soccer mom) being in the front row with our kids this time. Lol*


Hahahaha


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> 1,108,000 viewers.
> 0.45
> 
> God damn.


well fuck

Dark Order is a draw


----------



## Prosper

LifeInCattleClass said:


> well fuck
> 
> Dark Order is a draw


Last night's show was great and DO is pretty over. The crowd was pretty deflated/defeated after Hangman/DO lost though. I thought that would hurt ratings a little and put them under a mil but I guess not!


----------



## Erik.

No Darby or Moxley booked and they put up that number. 

You best bet they're stacking that Sep 22 show.


----------



## bdon

Mr316 said:


> I’m calling it now. The AEW show in New York will beat Raw in the ratings.


Goddamn I’d love it. 


LifeInCattleClass said:


> well fuck
> 
> Dark Order is a draw


So…which wrestler with the flop of a world title reign has more 1 million plus TV ratings as champ again? 

By God…


----------



## rbl85

Prosper said:


> Last night's show was great and DO is pretty over. The crowd was pretty deflated/defeated after Hangman/DO lost though. I thought that would hurt ratings a little and put them under a mil but I guess not!


Silver is over as fuck


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Prosper said:


> Last night's show was great and DO is pretty over. The crowd was pretty deflated/defeated after Hangman/DO lost though. I thought that would hurt ratings a little and put them under a mil but I guess not!


that DO entrance was so epic

i think i watched it 20x times now


----------



## Mr316

Raw soon to be facing the NFL every Monday and AEW about to add even more momentum with Punk and Bryan…AEW will be beating Raw in ratings by the end of the year.

Where’s Woody? 😂


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Goddamn I’d love it.
> 
> So…which wrestler with the flop of a world title reign has more 1 million plus TV ratings as champ again?
> 
> By God…


uhmmm, wait.... I know this one

Surely Kenny with his flop reign isn't.... _gulp_ drawing?! as well as the best story in pro wrestling right now / the saga of the Hangman


----------



## Prosper

bdon said:


> Goddamn I’d love it.
> 
> So…which wrestler with the flop of a world title reign has more 1 million plus TV ratings as champ again?
> 
> By God…


KENNY BAH GAWD OMEGA


----------



## DammitChrist

LifeInCattleClass said:


> well fuck
> 
> Dark Order is a draw


Even better, the Young Bucks wrestled for a half-hour last night, and the ratings ended up being really strong this week too.

It's almost like the Young Bucks aren't "killing" the viewership after all


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> uhmmm, wait.... I know this one
> 
> Surely Kenny with his flop reign isn't.... _gulp_ drawing?! as well as the best story in pro wrestling right now / the saga of the Hangman


Ah, you know: the guy who will have been world champion both times someone besides WWE were able to sell 15k or more tickets in NY in the last 20 years.

But he can’t cut a promo. Lmao


----------



## A PG Attitude

Just listening to WWE financial conference call. Be interesting to see if anyone asks Vince about aew/bryan/punk


----------



## bdon

Prosper said:


> KENNY BAH GAWD OMEGA


World Champion at a time of selling 16k tickets in Arthur Ashe and 20k more in United Center, a month apart.

If he could talk…well hahah…look out Hogan and Andre!


----------



## Prosper

A PG Attitude said:


> Just listening to WWE financial conference call. Be interesting to see if anyone asks Vince about aew/bryan/punk


You should post the objective cliff notes when done


----------



## omaroo

Wow amazing well done AEW three weeks in a row over a million.. 

Bit surprised as honestly thought because of Olympics would affect them somewhat. Guess not lol. 

You have to question with punk and Bryan coming surely they could be getting 1.4-1.5 million every week right? Will be tough but not out of the question.


----------



## Prosper

bdon said:


> World Champion at a time of selling 16k tickets in Arthur Ashe and 20k more in United Center, a month apart.
> 
> If he could talk…well hahah…look out Hogan and Andre!


I'm torn because I want Omega's title reign to continue but I also want them to take advantage of the white hot Hangman and crown him. Kenny should get a 2nd World title reign for sure. 

This should be the order:

Hangman
MJF
CM Punk
Bryan
Kenny Omega again
Cody
Moxley again (short reign)
PAC
Miro


----------



## A PG Attitude

Prosper said:


> You should post the objective cliff notes when done


Bro my active listening skills aren't that good but I'm sure fightful will post them.


----------



## DammitChrist

Honestly, I can easily see Darby Allin being the one to win the AEW World title off a heel Cody Rhodes 

They have plenty of history together after all.


----------



## bdon

Prosper said:


> I'm torn because I want Omega's title reign to continue but I also want them to take advantage of the white hot Hangman and crown him. Kenny should get a 2nd World title reign for sure.
> 
> This should be the order:
> 
> Hangman
> MJF
> CM Punk
> Bryan
> Kenny Omega again
> Cody
> Moxley again (short reign)
> PAC
> Miro


I like it. Kenny dropping them E boys on their head, ONE-WINGED ANGEL! ONE-WINGED ANGEL! ONE-WINGED ANGEL!!

Edit:

Cody is not and has never been World Champion material. Keep the belt off him and honor the stipulation. He is not interesting enough to be a World champion. He’s midcard Cody.


----------



## DammitChrist

bdon said:


> I like it. Kenny dropping them E boys on their head, ONE-WINGED ANGEL! ONE-WINGED ANGEL! ONE-WINGED ANGEL!!
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Cody is not and has never been World Champion material. Keep the belt off him and honor the stipulation. He is not interesting enough to be a World champion. He’s midcard Cody.


Nope, Cody is a great enough talent to win the world championship some day (since he's main-event worthy), and he'll do a pretty damn good job as a heel too! It would also be an awesome moment to see Darby beat a heel Cody for that world title one day


----------



## Prosper

bdon said:


> I like it. Kenny dropping them E boys on their head, ONE-WINGED ANGEL! ONE-WINGED ANGEL! ONE-WINGED ANGEL!!
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Cody is not and has never been World Champion material. Keep the belt off him and honor the stipulation. He is not interesting enough to be a World champion. He’s midcard Cody.


😂Lol come on man Cody deserves at least one title reign


----------



## Borko

Erik. said:


> 1,108,000 viewers.
> 0.45
> 
> God damn.


Haters in ruins!


----------



## bdon

Prosper said:


> 😂Lol come on man Cody deserves at least one title reign


If he did, he would have been made world champion anywhere else along the way. He should not be booking himself to finally be champion.

He’s midcard Cody. Upper midcard, sure, but he is midcard nonetheless.


----------



## Aedubya

Excellent to see
Well earnt


----------



## InexorableJourney

Olympics proof.


----------



## Geert Wilders

DammitChrist said:


> Honestly, I can easily see Darby Allin being the one to win the AEW World title off a heel Cody Rhodes
> 
> They have plenty of history together after all.


I think Darby should not touch the title until much later into his carer. He should always fall just short. Perhaps his first time, Sting turns on him and goes heel, aligning with heel Cody. If if it possible for a heel stinger.


----------



## Geert Wilders

A PG Attitude said:


> Just listening to WWE financial conference call. Be interesting to see if anyone asks Vince about aew/bryan/punk






skip to act 15.30 before end


----------



## bdon

Geert Wilders said:


> I think Darby should not touch the title until much later into his carer. He should always fall just short. Perhaps his first time, Sting turns on him and goes heel, aligning with heel Cody. If if it possible for a heel stinger.


Sting tried to turn heel once in his career, using the baseball bat to steal the title from a recently returned to Red and Yellow Hulk Hogan, aligning himself with heel Luger and the Wolfpac. It was supposed to be a shocking moment, and all it did was make the NWO Wolfpac into the babyfaces, which buried the entire rest of the roster not involved in NWO storylines.

Sting is incapable of being a heel. Probably the most beloved, white meat babyface of all time.


----------



## sim8

bdon said:


> Sting tried to turn heel once in his career, using the baseball bat to steal the title from a recently returned to Red and Yellow Hulk Hogan, aligning himself with heel Luger and the Wolfpac. It was supposed to be a shocking moment, and all it did was make the NWO Wolfpac into the babyfaces, which buried the entire rest of the roster not involved in NWO storylines.
> 
> Sting is incapable of being a heel. Probably the most beloved, white meat babyface of all time.


Ricky Steamboat is the whitest of white meat babyfaces, surely


----------



## DammitChrist

Wait, didn't Sting turn heel back in 2010 too during his TNA run?


----------



## DaSlacker

bdon said:


> Sting tried to turn heel once in his career, using the baseball bat to steal the title from a recently returned to Red and Yellow Hulk Hogan, aligning himself with heel Luger and the Wolfpac. It was supposed to be a shocking moment, and all it did was make the NWO Wolfpac into the babyfaces, which buried the entire rest of the roster not involved in NWO storylines.
> 
> Sting is incapable of being a heel. Probably the most beloved, white meat babyface of all time.


Turning Sting heel was like a bad luck omen for WCW. One of those things that should never have happened but did - a fatal curse from the wrestling gods lol. In all seriousness, you're right. He really isn't comfortable playing heel and now more than ever the fans would be reluctant to boo him.


----------



## DaSlacker

DammitChrist said:


> Wait, didn't Sting turn heel back in 2010 too during his TNA run?


He did, but the twist was he was the face trying to make the other faces aware of what Hogan and Bischoff were up to. The guy who had done nothing wrong yet had to be hated for a while. 

Think Russo had been watching The Dark Knight too often 😂 .


----------



## rich110991

Geert Wilders said:


> skip to act 15.30 before end


Oh the arrogance is real

Keep sleeping on AEW Vince 😂 Prick

They’re not competition like WCW was? They’re 2 years old and smashing it at the moment and their show is more entertaining than yours. They treat their fans and employees better than you do 😏


----------



## Ham and Egger

Congrats to another million plus rating. They deserve it with how each episode is must watch viewing. By the end of the year they will have a higher rating than Raw!


----------



## NXT Only

Remember when they “lost” half of their audience?


----------



## zkorejo

Geert Wilders said:


> skip to act 15.30 before end


Did he just Very passive aggressively say: "We can send them more (talent)"? The guy is clearly mad but trying his best to not let on. 

Moxley and Bryan rejected the wwe offers for AEW. He's here pretending like he's hot shit sending talent anywhere.


----------



## Prosper

I'd be interested to see what the DVR and Live +3 numbers were for this week and the last 2. I wonder if they are hitting 1.5 mil after the 3 days now.


----------



## DammitChrist

NXT Only said:


> Remember when they “lost” half of their audience?


I also remember Cody Rhodes and the Young Bucks somehow “killing” the viewership too.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

DammitChrist said:


> I also remember Cody Rhodes and the Young Bucks somehow “killing” the viewership too.


Don't forget dark order shouldn't be on tv they drive viewers away dammit!!!


----------



## Geeee

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Don't forget dark order shouldn't be on tv they drive viewers away dammit!!!


Maybe in the quarterly breakdown Dark Order tanked and Julia beat Raw!


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Geeee said:


> Maybe in the quarterly breakdown Dark Order tanked and Julia beat Raw!


Lmao yep that's gotta be it 🤣


----------



## La Parka

Mr316 said:


> I’m calling it now. The AEW show in New York will beat Raw in the ratings.


I think so too


----------



## MEMS

LifeInCattleClass said:


> uhmmm, wait.... I know this one
> 
> Surely Kenny with his flop reign isn't.... _gulp_ drawing?! as well as the best story in pro wrestling right now / the saga of the Hangman


His first 6 months as champ was not good. They wasted so much time on the crossover with Impact which was a big failure. But since he's been back working with the AEW talent, he's been killing it. 

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk


----------



## MEMS

rich110991 said:


> Oh the arrogance is real
> 
> Keep sleeping on AEW Vince [emoji23] Prick
> 
> They’re not competition like WCW was? They’re 2 years old and smashing it at the moment and their show is more entertaining than yours. They treat their fans and employees better than you do [emoji57]


Vince and the crew will never acknowledge AEW as long as the $$$ is still flowing in. Only way I think AEW could get his attention is if they dare move to Monday night. 

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk


----------



## Randy Lahey

With demos this close now (0.49 to 0.45), I would expect Dynamite to beat Raw in September with all the big shows, DB/Punk, and MNF back.

A start up wrestling company less than 2 years on TV, already near as popular as a show that’s been on for 25+ years is quite an achievement for TK.


----------



## thorn123

Randy Lahey said:


> With demos this close now (0.49 to 0.45), I would expect Dynamite to beat Raw in September with all the big shows, DB/Punk, and MNF back.
> 
> A start up wrestling company less than 2 years on TV, already near as popular as a show that’s been on for 25+ years is quite an achievement for TK.


could you imagine if they beat Raw ... I am not as optimistic as you but I sure am hopeful. 
Would vince say they are competition then?
I wonder what the haters on WF would say?


----------



## Mister Sinister

Let's see if the garbage wrestling drives away viewers next week or if they're interested enough in Bryan/Punk to keep watching.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Mister Sinister said:


> Let's see if the garbage wrestling drives away viewers next week or if they're interested enough in Bryan/Punk to keep watching.


Wouldn't the "garbage wrestling" have driven away viewers in real time (which didn't happen) if it was gonna drive viewers away at all?


----------



## RogueSlayer

Funny how AEW that's not competition like WCW was are doing events at historical venues like The United Centre and Arthur Ash stadium. 

AEW have also had three consecutive weeks of one million viewers but yeah they aren't competition lol


----------



## bdon

Mister Sinister said:


> Let's see if the garbage wrestling drives away viewers next week or if they're interested enough in Bryan/Punk to keep watching.


Way to carefully shit on any notion that fans want to watch what was produced, already perfectly crafted your built-in excuse, eh?


----------



## Outlaw91

Really, all those wrestling “specialists " are on silence mode?
Only one of them seems to be here and somehow he's trying to switch sides...


----------



## Martyn

O.45 is their 3rd highest rating ever in the 18-49 demo. That's a great number and I haven't been expecting it at all with the Olympics coverage.

Curious what will be next weeks show viewership with Malakai Blacks debut against Cody and 3rd Labour of Jericho. They're throwing ppv matches every week now.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Outlaw91 said:


> Really, all those wrestling “specialists " are on silence mode?
> Only one of them seems to be here and somehow he's trying to switch sides...


we fully accept @Mr316 into the ‘unbearable optimists’ club

one of us! One of us!


----------



## Not Lying

Malakai Black’s debut gave AEW a good buzz it neeeded and they’ve been riding that momentum since. 
Those 4 special events July look to be a good decision now.


----------



## Outlaw91

LifeInCattleClass said:


> we fully accept @Mr316 into the ‘unbearable optimists’ club
> 
> one of us! One of us!


I wasn't talking about him.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Outlaw91 said:


> I wasn't talking about him.


lol, oh - we’ll accept nobody else unfortunately


----------



## Erik.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1420965057882693633


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1420965057882693633


people wanting to see that Hangman win😭😭😭


----------



## Erik.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> people wanting to see that Hangman win😭😭😭


Hearts were 100% broken with that loss.

Looks like not only those in attendance but those watching at home.

What's good is that they retained the viewers following that dip and ended up with more viewers by the end of the night than what they had when the event started. 1,240,000 people tuned in to watch AEW, the aim now is make sure they can get up to that number. I think Punk and Bryan coming in can absolutely do just that and more.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

3venflow said:


> A fair number of Rampage shows are being promoted as joint tapings with Dynamite. Like Pittsburgh. It'll vary, but TK may as well fill up the coffers while AEW is hot by running these big shows since the demand seems to be there.
> 
> They really should be trying to get a two hour special for this. What else is going to be on TNT on a late Friday night that will rate better than AEW?
> 
> Obviously the timeslot is going to impact the rating, but it should establish Rampage as a major brand for AEW, instead of the new WCW Thunder.
> 
> Also: The Friday night timeslot is going to be reviewed after AEW moves to TBS, so if it fares well in the timeslot, it may have a shot at primetime on Saturday or something.


Joint tapings? Thought they were seperate events? August 11th is Dynamite and August 13th is Rampage.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> Hearts were 100% broken with that loss.
> 
> Looks like not only those in attendance but those watching at home.
> 
> What's good is that they retained the viewers following that dip and ended up with more viewers by the end of the night than what they had when the event started. 1,240,000 people tuned in to watch AEW, the aim now is make sure they can get up to that number. I think Punk and Bryan coming in can absolutely do just that and more.


for sure they can maintain and grow with Punk / Bryan

does the heart good to see people getting behind Hangman to this degree though


----------



## Erik.

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Joint tapings? Thought they were seperate events? August 11th is Dynamite and August 13th is Rampage.


There will be some live Rampage events (Like the first two weeks) and some will be taped.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> for sure they can maintain and grow with Punk / Bryan
> 
> does the heart good to see people getting behind Hangman to this degree though


3 weeks in a row that Hangman & Kenny have been in the top quarter.

You've got to believe AEW are aware of this and what fans want to see.


----------



## yeahright2

Okay.. Ratings came yesterday, but I was kinda busy.

AEW Ratings prediction game

I don´t agree with them having a garbage match in the main event, but they did good in the ratings..But the test is next week, as this weeks show affects next weeks viewers.
Anyway, @LifeInCattleClass won our little ratings game again.. Inside knowledge? hmm..


----------



## Randy Lahey

Erik. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1420965057882693633


Meltzer needs to change his narrative about blood driving off viewers. The Jericho/Gage match did the 2nd highest demo of the entire show, and it was at the very end of the show.

Look how often every other wrestling show bleeds viewers from start to finish.


----------



## Erik.

Randy Lahey said:


> Meltzer needs to change his narrative about blood driving off viewers. The Jericho/Gage match did the 2nd highest demo of the entire show, and it was at the very end of the show.
> 
> Look how often every other wrestling show bleeds viewers from start to finish.


Bare in mind Moxley/Archer was top peak last week too.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> Okay.. Ratings came yesterday, but I was kinda busy.
> 
> AEW Ratings prediction game
> 
> I don´t agree with them having a garbage match in the main event, but they did good in the ratings..But the test is next week, as this weeks show affects next weeks viewers.
> Anyway, @LifeInCattleClass won our little ratings game again.. Inside knowledge? hmm..


told you the win streak is hot

’unbearable optimists‘ for the win again


----------



## Prized Fighter

Erik. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1420965057882693633




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1420984858097094658


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Erik. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1420965057882693633


Looks like the 10 man match was very strong and the min event brought back good numbers too. The dip for Starks/Cage promo and Ftr tag match pretty much mirrors the mood of the crowd on the night, interestingly.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Doesn’t surprise me the opener did exceedingly well. Page in the title hunt is a draw, especially against Omega considering their history. Huge stakes in the match, and they never got back to that number after the huge drop (but still almost all quarters getting over a million is really good). I’d imagine minute by minute the end of the match got 1.3+ million... but maybe not. Feel like I would’ve seen something from Meltzer by now if it did.


----------



## thorn123

Most wrestling shows lose about 10- 15% of it viewers through the duration. Not dynamite though 😊


----------



## 3venflow

A few ticket updates.

1,850 tickets sold for the 8/4 Daily's Place show. The two for $20 charity drive has helped sales in this very dry market and they have opened up more sections with a 3,000 capacity for next week. They should pass 2,000 by show time which will be smaller than recent TV tapings, but ok for a market they've asked a lot of in the past year.

10,964 tickets sold for the 9/15 Newark show. Many of these sold pre-pandemic but they're still slowly moving with capacity at 11,897.

16,896 tickets sold for the 9/22 NYC show. Obviously sales have slowed but with the show still just under two months away and no matches announced, they could push towards 20k if they open up more sections (current capacity is 18,692) and announce Danielson or Punk.

Presale code from AEW Heels for The First Dance at Union Center is AEWDANCE. Tickets go on sale today at 10am CDT if anyone wants one early.


----------



## rbl85

Pentagon Senior said:


> Looks like the 10 man match was very strong and the min event brought back good numbers too. *The dip for Starks/Cage promo and Ftr tag match pretty much mirrors the mood of the crowd on the night, interestingly.*


TNT was off for nearly the whole quarter for some people


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> A few ticket updates.
> 
> 1,850 tickets sold for the 8/4 Daily's Place show. The two for $20 charity drive has helped sales in this very dry market and they have opened up more sections with a 3,000 capacity for next week. They should pass 2,000 by show time which will be smaller than recent TV tapings, but ok for a market they've asked a lot of in the past year.
> 
> 10,964 tickets sold for the 9/15 Newark show. Many of these sold pre-pandemic but they're still slowly moving with capacity at 11,897.
> 
> 16,896 tickets sold for the 9/22 NYC show. Obviously sales have slowed but with the show still just under two months away and no matches announced, they could push towards 20k if they open up more sections (current capacity is 18,692) and announce Danielson or Punk.
> 
> Presale code from AEW Heels for The First Dance at Union Center is AEWDANCE. Tickets go on sale today at 10am CDT if anyone wants one early.


going back to Daily’s so soon was a mistake

but i guess its on the way to chicago?


----------



## Pentagon Senior

rbl85 said:


> TNT was off for nearly the whole quarter for some people


Ah ok, that makes sense then


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> going back to Daily’s so soon was a mistake
> 
> but i guess its on the way to chicago?


Maybe they didn't have the choice to go back.


----------



## zkorejo

3venflow said:


> A few ticket updates.
> 
> 1,850 tickets sold for the 8/4 Daily's Place show. The two for $20 charity drive has helped sales in this very dry market and they have opened up more sections with a 3,000 capacity for next week. They should pass 2,000 by show time which will be smaller than recent TV tapings, but ok for a market they've asked a lot of in the past year.
> 
> 10,964 tickets sold for the 9/15 Newark show. Many of these sold pre-pandemic but they're still slowly moving with capacity at 11,897.
> 
> 16,896 tickets sold for the 9/22 NYC show. Obviously sales have slowed but with the show still just under two months away and no matches announced, they could push towards 20k if they open up more sections (current capacity is 18,692) and announce Danielson or Punk.
> 
> Presale code from AEW Heels for The First Dance at Union Center is AEWDANCE. Tickets go on sale today at 10am CDT if anyone wants one early.


I'm really intrigued to see how Rampage Chicago does in sales. Let's see if Chicago is as hyped for a Punk return as we all expect and hope for them to be.


----------



## omaroo

3venflow said:


> A few ticket updates.
> 
> 1,850 tickets sold for the 8/4 Daily's Place show. The two for $20 charity drive has helped sales in this very dry market and they have opened up more sections with a 3,000 capacity for next week. They should pass 2,000 by show time which will be smaller than recent TV tapings, but ok for a market they've asked a lot of in the past year.
> 
> 10,964 tickets sold for the 9/15 Newark show. Many of these sold pre-pandemic but they're still slowly moving with capacity at 11,897.
> 
> 16,896 tickets sold for the 9/22 NYC show. Obviously sales have slowed but with the show still just under two months away and no matches announced, they could push towards 20k if they open up more sections (current capacity is 18,692) and announce Danielson or Punk.
> 
> Presale code from AEW Heels for The First Dance at Union Center is AEWDANCE. Tickets go on sale today at 10am CDT if anyone wants one early.


Hope they can get 20,000 tickets sold for the NYC show over the next month or so.

The chicago show in 3 weeks or so at the Union Center does have me concerned. Think its a big risk and to sell 20,000 arena out will be very tough especially in such a short space of time. I really hope they have a big crowd for that show.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

They’re selling out all 20k


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

New deal new deal


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1421124430990876676


----------



## omaroo

LifeInCattleClass said:


> They’re selling out all 20k
> 
> View attachment 105339



Be some amazing accomplishment for a new show if they do.

Buzz is hot right now so hope it goes their way.


----------



## Mr316

LifeInCattleClass said:


> They’re selling out all 20k
> 
> View attachment 105339


Unbelievable.


----------



## omaroo

LifeInCattleClass said:


> New deal new deal
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1421124430990876676


Not my thing but great bfor AEW venturing into other avenues.

More revenue streams coming in for them the better.


----------



## izhack111

LifeInCattleClass said:


> New deal new deal
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1421124430990876676


Very nice!
I saw that they added some cool stuff in the AEW shop too, not only ring gear like it used to be


----------



## A PG Attitude

LifeInCattleClass said:


> They’re selling out all 20k
> 
> View attachment 105339


All presale tickets pretty much sold out now. Do they hold any back for general sale?


----------



## rbl85

A PG Attitude said:


> All presale tickets pretty much sold out now. Do they hold any back for general sale?


Yes


----------



## Prized Fighter

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1421138339458080773
They sold out the pre-sale tickets in just an hour.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Yup

‘wrestling’s on its knees’ 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1421138419523235843


----------



## omaroo

How many tickets sold so far for the show any ideas?


----------



## ProjectGargano

I


omaroo said:


> How many tickets sold so far for the show any ideas?


I heard 13k+ on the presale.


----------



## A PG Attitude

ProjectGargano said:


> I
> I heard 13k+ on the presale.


Well God damn pal.


----------



## Erik.

They've sold 10,000+ tickets for the show a week before Grand Slam.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

For the presale

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1421151788472750084


----------



## omaroo

ProjectGargano said:


> I
> I heard 13k+ on the presale.




Sold that many already. Damn heading for a sell out.


----------



## omaroo

LifeInCattleClass said:


> For the presale
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1421151788472750084


Hope not too much scalpers gone for them all.


----------



## 3venflow

Incredible ticket movement. So they sold more in no time than TNA did for any show ever.


----------



## Prosper

Thats wild. They're gonna sell out 20K for a one hour show lol. Hopefully they give the crowd a good Elevation show beforehand, which I'm sure they will.


----------



## zkorejo

Cm Punk! Cm Punk! Cm Punk!. Go Chicago! Can't wait to hear these guys with those passionate CM Punk chants.


----------



## Erik.

Prosper said:


> Thats wild. They're gonna sell out 20K for a one hour show lol. Hopefully they give the crowd a good Elevation show beforehand, which I'm sure they will.


Apparently it'll be 16k after set up.


----------



## ElTerrible

Prosper said:


> Thats wild. They're gonna sell out 20K for a one hour show lol. Hopefully they give the crowd a good Elevation show beforehand, which I'm sure they will.


I mean it´s a Friday Night on TNT. How difficult can it be to get another added special hour? Feels like this should have at least a two hours build up. Will certainly pop a rating.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Im excited about watching a one hour show that matters. 1 hour shows can be magic.


----------



## La Parka

Outlaw91 said:


> Really, all those wrestling “specialists " are on silence mode?
> Only one of them seems to be here and somehow he's trying to switch sides...


They’re doing good ratings but much like Raw I still think the show is god awful.

The only difference between loyalists and critics is when a rating swings a certain way loyalists tend to blame everything from a rerun of friends to the weather while critics tend to accept the fact that while aew lacks quality there are a good amount of people that enjoy it


----------



## bdon

Where the fuck is that Mox and MJF fan who used to scream about how Kenny and Page weren’t draws and were holding back the ratings from growing!?


----------



## Outlaw91

La Parka said:


> They’re doing good ratings but much like Raw I still think the show is god awful.
> 
> The only difference between loyalists and critics is when a rating swings a certain way loyalists tend to blame everything from a rerun of friends to the weather while critics tend to accept the fact that while aew lacks quality there are a good amount of people that enjoy it


Yet you still follow these God awful shows, because that's what a normal person would do...









Damn loyalists! Thank God you are a "critic".


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> View attachment 105341
> 
> Where the fuck is that Mox and MJF fan who used to scream about how Kenny and Page weren’t draws and were holding back the ratings from growing!?


can we also please get the same energy from all the 'dur dur Dork Order' folk?

it takes 10 to tango


----------



## La Parka

Outlaw91 said:


> Yet you still follow these God awful shows, because that's what a normal person would do...
> View attachment 105342
> 
> 
> Damn loyalists! Thank God you are a "critic".


I watch mostly all wrestling via dvr and skip through the matches and characters that I don’t like. There’s a handful of decent wrestlers / angles that I find interesting and spend my time watching them.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> can we also please get the same energy from all the 'dur dur Dork Order' folk?
> 
> it takes 10 to tango


Dark Order in this instance is fine. Dark Order on tv weekly trying to carry their own program is not ok.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Dark Order in this instance is fine. Dark Order on tv weekly trying to carry their own program is not ok.


the people love them / their entrance was dope as fuck / and they can wrestle

Dark Order is love, Dark Order is life


----------



## Outlaw91

La Parka said:


> I watch mostly all wrestling via dvr and skip through the matches and characters that I don’t like. There’s a handful of decent wrestlers / angles that I find interesting and spend my time watching them.


Only that all these you mentioned are based on your opinions and just like you label someone who doesn't agree with you a loyalist, that guy can also label you a hater. You call yourself a critic, others would say a hater. The reverse works too.


----------



## izhack111

Dark Order=draw if you like it or not


----------



## La Parka

Outlaw91 said:


> Only that all these you mentioned are based on your opinions and just like you label someone who doesn't agree with you a loyalist, that guy can also label you a hater. You call yourself a critic, others would say a hater. The reverse works too.


----------



## Outlaw91

La Parka said:


> View attachment 105344


----------



## 3venflow

Estimates now at 12~13,000 sold in the pre-sale for Rampage in Chicago.


----------



## omaroo

3venflow said:


> Estimates now at 12~13,000 sold in the pre-sale for Rampage in Chicago.


I'm guessing arena capacity is 20,000 but they will setup between 16,000-18,000


----------



## Randy Lahey

CM Punk is the biggest wrestling draw in Chicago period. Nobody else could move those tickets. 

To do those numbers for a thrown together last minute show, basically a televised house show, when you are already running a PPV 2 weeks later from the same city is insane.

The atmosphere at the United Center, and then at Arthur Ashe will be the best wrestling atmospheres since the late 90s


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Those 3 shows in Chicago is going to be bonkers

also, feels like a homecoming - before Jacksonville and the pandemic, Chicago was considered home-base for AEW


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

I'm willing to admit I was wrong about AEW. They've far exceeded my expectations dating as far back as All In. I guess I was too wired to think negatively based on the blackhole that was 2000s wrestling and the failure of TNA. That amount of tickets for a secondary show with only three weeks and no card is impressive as hell.

Sure there's still things I don't like about the show but can't deny its success.


----------



## 3venflow

Chicago is definitely mad for AEW. Even before any hint of Punk, All Out sold out in a flash. Plus they are running two other tapings at the NOW Arena before All Out. So it's...

August 20 (Rampage): 12~13,000 tickets sold in the pre-sale
September 1 (Dynamite): 4,700+ tickets sold (configured for 6,750 fans)
September 3 (Rampage): 4,500+ tickets sold (configured for 6,000 fans)
September 5 (All Out): 9,500-ish tickets sold (sold out unless they add 'production seats')

The 10/27 Boston show has pretty much sold out now too. It's configured for 5,250 fans and only 84 tickets remain three months out.

We haven't seen this sort of interest in a U.S. promotion other than WWE since WCW.


----------



## Mister Sinister

ShadowCounter said:


> Wouldn't the "garbage wrestling" have driven away viewers in real time (which didn't happen) if it was gonna drive viewers away at all?


Sometimes viewers turn off live and sometimes they grudge watch it and say, "that was stupid" and don't tune in the next week. But we have more than one thing happening right now. There are rumors that Bryan and Punk are signed, you have an increased on-screen presence of Latinos which expands the demographic net and outside of this week's garbage fire main event, the labors of Jericho is a really strong concept (says someone that thinks MJF gets Xpac heat).

They can be the champion of a niche, aging audience of ECW fanboys that generate less money than families, but that means they will never actually grow out into the main stream.

Long term, I see Bryan and Punk creating a spike in interest that is followed by a gradual decline as the creative shows it's still the same booking. Do you want 1.5 million viewers as the ceiling, or do you want 3.5 million viewers? It will be the same song and dance-- "why is Punk doing this gamer story with OC, why is Bryan only wrestling once a month, why hasn't Punk been on tv for two weeks in a row, they just need to put X over as a beast and put a title on him, why is Bryan in a story with Dork Order..."


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Another good rating, I'm impressed. There's still plenty of stuff on the show I don't like and think they could be doing better, but they're knocking it out of the park in other areas. My summary of AEW is that they nail some things perfectly and shit the bed in others. 

They're getting results though, so it's working.


----------



## 3venflow

4,000+ tickets sold for the September 8th Dynamite + Rampage event in Cincinnati (Moxley homecoming), according to Meltzer. AEW officials are very happy with the early sales for that show.

The third and fourth most important Chicago shows coming up are moving along well:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1421651898222981121
Boston:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1421544815565721602
Newark:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1421264956008316928
Houston:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1421639752852328450


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

India deal


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1422108756528091137


----------



## zkorejo

LifeInCattleClass said:


> India deal
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1422108756528091137


Bollywood Boys to AEW dark confirmed!


----------



## Not Lying

This is excellent news. 
Their youtube views are about to grow exponentially in a few months.


----------



## omaroo

Any idea how much the india tv deal is worth? 

Not sure how big the channel is. Would have been great if they had got star sports. Oh well they are in that huge market. They should also try to see if they can do anything in China.


----------



## 3venflow

India deal will be priceless for social media numbers, which are very important these days (look at WWE press releases, they always play up the enormity of their socials). Indians love pro wrestling and absolutely flood WWE videos.


----------



## 3venflow

double post


----------



## ProjectGargano

3venflow said:


> India deal will be priceless for social media numbers, which are very important these days (look at WWE press releases, they always play up the enormity of their socials). Indians love pro wrestling and absolutely flood WWE videos.


But i think it isn´t on a big channel. I heard an indian on twitter saying that is the equivalent of an AXS TV on USA.


----------



## omaroo

ProjectGargano said:


> But i think it isn´t on a big channel. I heard an indian on twitter saying that is the equivalent of an AXS TV on USA.


Thats only downside is not on a major network in India.

Not sure how many eyes will see AEW on this channel.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

So - the united centre is sold out in 20 min it seems


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1422216191498760193


----------



## Randy Lahey

I was hoping AEW would open up more tickets with it being sold out this fast. I think it was going to be over 13,000 capacity but maybe they'll open up to get up to 16-17,000. With basketball it seats 20,000, but concerts and wrestling are lot less.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Its not sold out. I've just been on the website and there are tickets still available in almost all sections.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

A PG Attitude said:


> Its not sold out. I've just been on the website and there are tickets still available in almost all sections.


the queue is like 2000+ people

(from what i’ve seen on twitter)


----------



## 3venflow

All of the tickets except for a very few available are for resale, so have already been bought by scalpers I guess. In AEW's case, they're tickets sold although scalpers have been busy.

They can surely open more sections to deal with the demand.


----------



## Mr316

Yep. It’s sold out.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Mr316 said:


> I’m calling it now. The AEW show in New York will beat Raw in the ratings.



In overall viewership? What's your PayPal, let's do this.


----------



## Prosper

Good news that they got the deal in the India market. More growth.

Awesome news as well that they sold out United Center so quickly. The next 2 months are gonna be insane.


----------



## Chan Hung

3venflow said:


> All of the tickets except for a very few available are for resale, so have already been bought by scalpers I guess. In AEW's case, they're tickets sold although scalpers have been busy.
> 
> They can surely open more sections to deal with the demand.
> 
> View attachment 105591


So the 'red' indicates available right now, but was sold to scalpers?


----------



## 3venflow

Chan Hung said:


> So the 'red' indicates available right now, but was sold to scalpers?


Yes, they have been bought by verified resellers (scalpers) who will now try and make a big profit. But if they don't sell closer to show time, they will drop the prices so I'd expect most of them to be taken up.


----------



## 3venflow

The Elite vs. Hangman & Dark Order peaked at 1.4m viewers and 760k in the 18-49. Probably one of the highest viewerships in AEW history.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> The Elite vs. Hangman & Dark Order peaked at 1.4m viewers and 760k in the 18-49. Probably one of the highest viewerships in AEW history.


people wanted hangman to win, and my boys Dark Order is now renamed to ‘Draw Order’ 😭 😭 😭


----------



## Mr316

3venflow said:


> The Elite vs. Hangman & Dark Order peaked at 1.4m viewers and 760k in the 18-49. Probably one of the highest viewerships in AEW history.


Amazing


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Future warning - i will reply to every instance of ‘dork order’ with…

’uhmmm, excuse me - i think you mean Draw Order’

yuk yuk yuk!


----------



## bdon

3venflow said:


> The Elite vs. Hangman & Dark Order peaked at 1.4m viewers and 760k in the 18-49. Probably one of the highest viewerships in AEW history.


“Kenny’s not a draw!!”


----------



## Shock Street

Dank Order strikes again


----------



## Prized Fighter

bdon said:


> “Kenny’s not a draw!!”


Let's get these all out there:
"Kenny isn't a draw"
"Hangman has lost steam"
"The Dark Order is ruining Hangman and this feud"
"The Bucks style doesn't draw"
"The Elite's comedy turns off viewers"


Did I miss any?


----------



## $Dolladrew$

3venflow said:


> The Elite vs. Hangman & Dark Order peaked at 1.4m viewers and 760k in the 18-49. Probably one of the highest viewerships in AEW history.


Hangman's lucky to be associated with those huge fucking draws in the DARK ORDER....😼🤣👍🍺


----------



## Martyn

If DirecTV didnt experience problems they might have reached the rating of the very first show. Fantastic.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Prized Fighter said:


> Let's get these all out there:
> "Kenny isn't a draw"
> "Hangman has lost steam"
> "The Dark Order is ruining Hangman and this feud"
> "The Bucks style doesn't draw"
> "The Elite's comedy turns off viewers"
> 
> 
> Did I miss any?


flippy dippy outlaw mudshow gymnastics?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

bdon said:


> “Kenny’s not a draw!!”


*You do realize the vast majority of his segments haven't done shit in 7 months, right? This was all Hangman hype. They wanted to see him qualify for the title match. Kenny and the Bucks will go back to getting outdrawn by an emo skater and a woman until (if) Punk and Bryan arrive.*


----------



## omaroo

The Legit DMD said:


> *You do realize the vast majority of his segments haven't done shit in 7 months, right? This was all Hangman hype. They wanted to see him qualify for the title match. Kenny and the Bucks will go back to getting outdrawn by an emo skater and a woman until (if) Punk and Bryan arrive.*


That emo skater actually is a big star. 

Get it its cool to hate AEW. 

But it's just getting a bit petty now.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

omaroo said:


> That emo skater actually is a big star.
> 
> Get it its cool to hate AEW.
> 
> But it's just getting a bit petty now.


*Yeah, that emo skater has been my favorite performer for the last year, and you'd know that if you actually paid attention instead of rushing to blindly defend AEW.*


----------



## omaroo

The Legit DMD said:


> *Yeah, that emo skater has been my favorite performer for the last year, and you'd know that if you actually paid attention instead of rushing to blindly defend AEW.*




I actually really don't defend AEW at every turn. 

Where its warranted I criticise them. 

Hating on omega and the bucks for being ratings killers especially the latter who have had strong ratings when they have been on the screen is hate imo. 

This is coming from someone who isn't really much a fan of those guys.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

omaroo said:


> I actually really don't defend AEW at every turn.
> 
> Where its warranted I criticise them.
> 
> Hating on omega and the bucks for being ratings killers especially the latter who have had strong ratings when they have been on the screen is hate imo.
> 
> This is coming from someone who isn't really much a fan of those guys.


*I didn't say Kenny was a ratings killer, but he's not this mega draw that his fans make him out to be. He got outdrawn by Rhea vs Raquel last year when their matches went head to head. The only consistent top draws they have are Britt and Darby.*


----------



## Prosper

3venflow said:


> The Elite vs. Hangman & Dark Order peaked at 1.4m viewers and 760k in the 18-49. Probably one of the highest viewerships in AEW history.


Wow that’s pretty damn amazing. 760k in the demo holy shit. So many guys are over in AEW it’s good to see.


----------



## Erik.

Prosper said:


> Wow that’s pretty damn amazing. 760k in the demo holy shit. So many guys are over in AEW it’s good to see.


AEW have done an incredible job of keeping certain people apart and their lack of 50/50 bookings has helped tremendosly.

I mean Darby, Page and Moxley have all lost big matches over the last few months yet all still remain just as over, just as popular and just as legit if they were put into world title matches or feuds for example.


----------



## Geert Wilders

3venflow said:


> The Elite vs. Hangman & Dark Order peaked at 1.4m viewers and 760k in the 18-49. Probably one of the highest viewerships in AEW history.


I am not surprised this match drew.

Hangman and Omega has been booked superbly in the last 2 months. A well deserved rating.


----------



## DaSlacker

Erik. said:


> AEW have done an incredible job of keeping certain people apart and their lack of 50/50 bookings has helped tremendosly.
> 
> I mean Darby, Page and Moxley have all lost big matches over the last few months yet all still remain just as over, just as popular and just as legit if they were put into world title matches or feuds for example.


I agree. Building a 120+ roster, using Dark and Elevation as tools to put said wrestlers over, running only 5 or 6 matches on Dynamite. Building factions and not having friends randomly turn on friends. 

It's really paying dividends right now because they have so many unique-ish wrestlers that have enough momentum to feel special in their own little way. Compare that to WWE. Kross had an awesome run in NXT. Lee lost 5 or 6 times in NXT, in two years. A meeting between the once again should have been huge. In two weeks the feud is nearly cold because they rushed it.


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *You do realize the vast majority of his segments haven't done shit in 7 months, right? This was all Hangman hype. They wanted to see him qualify for the title match. Kenny and the Bucks will go back to getting outdrawn by an emo skater and a woman until (if) Punk and Bryan arrive.*


Wahhhhh


----------



## DammitChrist

It's understandable that Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks being part of the segment with the most viewers (after us being repeatedly told that they "don't draw" at all) for that show must be a tough pill to swallow.


----------



## Tell it like it is

But of course the tennis man's cult will say otherwise with their blah blah blah twinkletoes blah blah Kenny Olivier. Because that's all they do with their gibberish.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

bdon said:


> Wahhhhh


*Are you imitating yourself when Cody is on the screen?*


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *Are you imitating yourself when Cody is on the screen?*


No. If that were the case, the sound isn’t that of crying but a gnawing sound as my teeth mash against the barrel, contemplating if I want to eat this bullet or not, sir. Lol


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

If they can get that viewership for the opening segment, no excuses not to be able to get that as the overall rating.


----------



## Not Lying

Bucks and Omega’s 6-man tag Bullshit at the begining of the year killed a lot of their “ratings”
momentums, their main events were barely getting any bump, pretending these guys have been drawing for a while is ridiculous. 
Omega wasn’t drawing shit before this and Bucks have never been consistent and when they overdo their shit it’s been proven not to draw, and doesn’t have the sam type of bumps matches like Darby did when he was TNT champion.

Omega’s been a flat mid-card champion for 6 months until this feud, The Bucks have lost as much as viewers in many of their segments as they’ve gained.

They’ve been doing well since Black debuted, crowd are back, Wednesday is without competition. These 1.0-1.1m numbers I’ve been saying the entire time they will draw with no competition and crowd back, and look and behold.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Definition of Technician said:


> Bucks and Omega’s 6-man tag Bullshit at the begining of the year killed a lot of their “ratings”
> momentums, their main events were barely getting any bump, pretending these guys have been drawing for a while is ridiculous.
> Omega wasn’t drawing shit before this and Bucks have never been consistent and when they overdo their shit it’s been proven not to draw, and doesn’t have the sam type of bumps matches like Darby did when he was TNT champion.
> 
> Omega’s been a flat mid-card champion for 6 months until this feud, The Bucks have lost as much as viewers in many of their segments as they’ve gained.
> 
> They’ve been doing well since Black debuted, crowd are back, Wednesday is without competition. These 1.0-1.1m numbers I’ve been saying the entire time they will draw with no competition and crowd back, and look and behold.


Nah, there's plenty of fans who care about Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks (along with Adam Page).

Last week's episode was a great example of just that since they had no problem retaining viewership for a half-hour (even though we were repeatedly told that their 20+ minute tag matches "lose" viewers). 

None of those 3 guys are "killing" viewership. They gain/retain viewers more than they "lose" fans.


----------



## .christopher.

Tell it like it is said:


> But of course the tennis man's cult will say otherwise with their blah blah blah twinkletoes blah blah Kenny Olivier. Because that's all they do with their gibberish.


Terrible post, and no surprises to who liked it.


----------



## .christopher.

The Legit DMD said:


> *You do realize the vast majority of his segments haven't done shit in 7 months, right? This was all Hangman hype. They wanted to see him qualify for the title match. Kenny and the Bucks will go back to getting outdrawn by an emo skater and a woman until (if) Punk and Bryan arrive.*


Please don't bring logic into this. You're supposed to forget the entire history of the company if something/someone you like starts doing well.


omaroo said:


> That emo skater actually is a big star.
> 
> Get it its cool to hate AEW.
> 
> But it's just getting a bit petty now.


I get that you're a blind defender and all, but at least think about what you're typing. @The Legit DMD is a big darby fan. Unlike most on here, he can objectively criticise something he likes.


----------



## DammitChrist

.christopher. said:


> Terrible post, and no surprises to who liked it.


Nah, it was a good post, and you didn't really say anything here to prove his point wrong.


----------



## Martyn

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> If they can get that viewership for the opening segment, no excuses not to be able to get that as the overall rating.


The end result would have been much better, but DirectTV had no signal for like 7 minutes after the 5 on 5 match. Lots of viewers were lost completely afterwards. 

Also lol at the people who are still going at The Elite who just drew the best viewership and demo quarter since the inception of this company.


----------



## 3venflow

Top 20 from last Wednesday on cable. Sucks we have to wait a week for these now.


----------



## sim8

3venflow said:


> Top 20 from last Wednesday on cable. Sucks we have to wait a week for these now.
> 
> View attachment 105677


3 weeks in a row as number 1. How many weeks do you guys reckon they can keep this going?


----------



## Erik.

sim8 said:


> 3 weeks in a row as number 1. How many weeks do you guys reckon they can keep this going?


It'll fall off top spot eventually and the calls of "The company is dying" will ring out, I'm sure.


----------



## Not Lying

*Q4 2019 (Oct-Dec)*: Omega appeared in 9 segments that *lost an average of 2,333 viewers*, which ranked him 26th out of 47 acts that appeared in at least 4 segments during this time frame.

*Q1 2020 (Jan-Mar)*: Omega appeared in 15 segments that *lost an average of 7,800 viewers*, which ranked him 38th out of 67 acts that appeared in at least 4 segments in the quarter.

*Q2 2020 (April-June)*: Omega appeared in 4 segments that *gained an average of 29,750 viewers*, which ranked him 2nd out of 59 acts that appeared in at least 4 segments in the quarter.

*Q3 2020 (July-Sept)*: Omega appeared in 6 segments that *lost an average of 8,333 viewers*, which ranked him 29th out of 53 acts that appeared in at least 4 segments in the quarter.

*Q4 2020 (Oct-Dec)*: Omega appeared in 13 segments that *lost an average of 5,615 viewers*, which ranked him 25th out of 66 acts that appeared in at least 4 segments in the quarter.
I love it when I google stuff and I want is easily accessible









AEW and WWE Ratings Report: Is Kenny Omega A Draw? - Fight Game Media


Paul takes his weekly look at pro wrestling TV ratings and starts to wonder and asks the question, "Is Kenny Omega a draw?"




fightgamemedia.com





He ended up *losing viewers on average for the year. So all of you get your definition of a draw right. *

Just a few weeks ago, Bucks' main event match lost DEMO viewers and barely gained overall viewers, compared to what is expected from a main event to draw, they also can't move numbers like Darby or Moxley, fact.

I'm not bothering to look up the 6-man matches at the beginning of the year which were losing viewers week after week.



3venflow said:


> The Elite vs. Hangman & Dark Order peaked at 1.4m viewers and 760k in the 18-49. Probably one of the highest viewerships in AEW history.


This is clearly for a single minute or second right?
No way they drew that for the whole quarter



Martyn said:


> Also lol at the people who are still going at The Elite who just drew the best viewership and demo quarter since the inception of this company.


It's not a quarter


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> *Q4 2019 (Oct-Dec)*: Omega appeared in 9 segments that *lost an average of 2,333 viewers*, which ranked him 26th out of 47 acts that appeared in at least 4 segments during this time frame.
> 
> *Q1 2020 (Jan-Mar)*: Omega appeared in 15 segments that *lost an average of 7,800 viewers*, which ranked him 38th out of 67 acts that appeared in at least 4 segments in the quarter.
> 
> *Q2 2020 (April-June)*: Omega appeared in 4 segments that *gained an average of 29,750 viewers*, which ranked him 2nd out of 59 acts that appeared in at least 4 segments in the quarter.
> 
> *Q3 2020 (July-Sept)*: Omega appeared in 6 segments that *lost an average of 8,333 viewers*, which ranked him 29th out of 53 acts that appeared in at least 4 segments in the quarter.
> 
> *Q4 2020 (Oct-Dec)*: Omega appeared in 13 segments that *lost an average of 5,615 viewers*, which ranked him 25th out of 66 acts that appeared in at least 4 segments in the quarter.
> I love it when I google stuff and I want is easily accessible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW and WWE Ratings Report: Is Kenny Omega A Draw? - Fight Game Media
> 
> 
> Paul takes his weekly look at pro wrestling TV ratings and starts to wonder and asks the question, "Is Kenny Omega a draw?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fightgamemedia.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He ended up *losing viewers on average for the year. So all of you get your definition of a draw right. *
> 
> Just a few weeks ago, Bucks' main event match lost DEMO viewers and barely gained overall viewers, compared to what is expected from a main event to draw, they also can't move numbers like Darby or Moxley, fact.
> 
> I'm not bothering to look up the 6-man matches at the beginning of the year which were losing viewers week after week.
> 
> 
> 
> This is clearly for a single minute or second right?
> No way they drew that for the whole quarter
> 
> 
> 
> It's not a quarter


*It must be embarrassing to blatantly lie about Kenny being a top draw just to get proven wrong with statistics every single week, but they keep doing it for some reason.*


----------



## rbl85

I'm pretty sure that only Mox or Jericho gained viewers on average (maybe Riho)


----------



## sim8

The Definition of Technician said:


> *Q4 2019 (Oct-Dec)*: Omega appeared in 9 segments that *lost an average of 2,333 viewers*, which ranked him 26th out of 47 acts that appeared in at least 4 segments during this time frame.
> 
> *Q1 2020 (Jan-Mar)*: Omega appeared in 15 segments that *lost an average of 7,800 viewers*, which ranked him 38th out of 67 acts that appeared in at least 4 segments in the quarter.
> 
> *Q2 2020 (April-June)*: Omega appeared in 4 segments that *gained an average of 29,750 viewers*, which ranked him 2nd out of 59 acts that appeared in at least 4 segments in the quarter.
> 
> *Q3 2020 (July-Sept)*: Omega appeared in 6 segments that *lost an average of 8,333 viewers*, which ranked him 29th out of 53 acts that appeared in at least 4 segments in the quarter.
> 
> *Q4 2020 (Oct-Dec)*: Omega appeared in 13 segments that *lost an average of 5,615 viewers*, which ranked him 25th out of 66 acts that appeared in at least 4 segments in the quarter.
> I love it when I google stuff and I want is easily accessible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW and WWE Ratings Report: Is Kenny Omega A Draw? - Fight Game Media
> 
> 
> Paul takes his weekly look at pro wrestling TV ratings and starts to wonder and asks the question, "Is Kenny Omega a draw?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fightgamemedia.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He ended up *losing viewers on average for the year. So all of you get your definition of a draw right. *
> 
> Just a few weeks ago, Bucks' main event match lost DEMO viewers and barely gained overall viewers, compared to what is expected from a main event to draw, they also can't move numbers like Darby or Moxley, fact.
> 
> I'm not bothering to look up the 6-man matches at the beginning of the year which were losing viewers week after week.
> 
> 
> 
> This is clearly for a single minute or second right?
> No way they drew that for the whole quarter
> 
> 
> 
> It's not a quarter


Who are draws as per stats then? I know Britt and Darby get a lot of love but wondering what the stats are saying


----------



## bdon

They should fire Kenny then, eh? Cool story, bro.


----------



## bdon

Put him in meaningful shit, and he does the best results. Put him in tag title matches against Best Friends, Dustin and QT, and fans don’t care. Weird how that works.


----------



## .christopher.

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, it was a good post, and you didn't really say anything here to prove his point wrong.


When something is blatantly bullshit, you don't need to say anything more.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

@The Definition of Technician - then there is only one explanation!

Draw Order brings the 👁


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *It must be embarrassing to blatantly lie about Kenny being a top draw just to get proven wrong with statistics every single week, but they keep doing it for some reason.*


It must be absolutely embarrassing for you to REFUSE to swallow your pride by admitting that you’re wrong about the likes of Cody Rhodes, Kenny Omega, and the Young Bucks “killing” viewers when they’ve consistently been in segments with strong viewership recently 😂 

I suppose that last week must have been a tremendous setback to those who oppose the Elite’s existence on TV.


----------



## bdon

You put Omega in meaningful things, and you get your highest rated segments, highest rated shows, most weeks in a row as #1 show on Wednesday, most PPV buys, etc.

But due to him not drawing in matches with Chuck Taylor, he’s not a draw Lol


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

.christopher. said:


> When something is blatantly bullshit, you don't need to say anything more.


*Literally no one from the Cornette thread spams TWINKLE TOES. They can't disprove anything we say with actual facts, so they have to go for the low hanging fruit.*



bdon said:


> You put Omega in meaningful things, and you get your highest rated segments, highest rated shows, most weeks in a row as #1 show on Wednesday, most PPV buys, etc.
> 
> But due to him not drawing in matches with Chuck Taylor, he’s not a draw Lol


*Whack excuses. Darby drew the highest ratings in singles matches with Dark Order dorks. Britt drew with nothing but a microphone in a wheelchair.*


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *Literally no one from the Cornette thread spams TWINKLE TOES. They can't disprove anything we say with actual facts, so they have to go for the low hanging fruit.
> 
> 
> Whack excuses. Darby drew the highest ratings in singles matches with Dark Order dorks. Britt drew with nothing but a microphone in a wheelchair.*


And you can pinpoint moments where Omega drew against garbage.

Also, we pretending Sting doesn’t have something to do with Darby? Lol


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

bdon said:


> And you can pinpoint moments where Omega drew against garbage.
> 
> Also, we pretending Sting doesn’t have something to do with Darby? Lol


*Are you serious right now? The same Sting who sits at ringside with an empty look on his face and contributes nothing of value 90% of the time? They book him like a complete dumbass. No, he has nothing to do with Darby's matches drawing. In fact, Darby STILL drew the highest ratings without Sting at ringside.*


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *Literally no one from the Cornette thread spams TWINKLE TOES. They can't disprove anything we say with actual facts, so they have to go for the low hanging fruit.*
> 
> 
> *Whack excuses. Darby drew in singles matches with Dark Order dorks. Britt drew with nothing but a microphone in a wheelchair.*


You’re going to continue pretending that the last few weeks didn’t happen then? 😂 

Kenny Omega has been involved in multiple segments with the dreaded Dark Order too btw.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DammitChrist said:


> You’re going to continue pretending that the last few weeks didn’t happen then? 😂
> 
> Kenny Omega has been involved in multiple segments with the dreaded Dark Order too btw.


Dank Draw Order please


----------



## bdon

Ok. Sting, and the prospect of Sting doing something, has nothing to do with Darby. Lmao


----------



## Dr. Middy

The Definition of Technician said:


> *Q4 2019 (Oct-Dec)*: Omega appeared in 9 segments that *lost an average of 2,333 viewers*, which ranked him 26th out of 47 acts that appeared in at least 4 segments during this time frame.
> 
> *Q1 2020 (Jan-Mar)*: Omega appeared in 15 segments that *lost an average of 7,800 viewers*, which ranked him 38th out of 67 acts that appeared in at least 4 segments in the quarter.
> 
> *Q2 2020 (April-June)*: Omega appeared in 4 segments that *gained an average of 29,750 viewers*, which ranked him 2nd out of 59 acts that appeared in at least 4 segments in the quarter.
> 
> *Q3 2020 (July-Sept)*: Omega appeared in 6 segments that *lost an average of 8,333 viewers*, which ranked him 29th out of 53 acts that appeared in at least 4 segments in the quarter.
> 
> *Q4 2020 (Oct-Dec)*: Omega appeared in 13 segments that *lost an average of 5,615 viewers*, which ranked him 25th out of 66 acts that appeared in at least 4 segments in the quarter.
> I love it when I google stuff and I want is easily accessible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW and WWE Ratings Report: Is Kenny Omega A Draw? - Fight Game Media
> 
> 
> Paul takes his weekly look at pro wrestling TV ratings and starts to wonder and asks the question, "Is Kenny Omega a draw?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fightgamemedia.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He ended up *losing viewers on average for the year. So all of you get your definition of a draw right. *
> 
> Just a few weeks ago, Bucks' main event match lost DEMO viewers and barely gained overall viewers, compared to what is expected from a main event to draw, they also can't move numbers like Darby or Moxley, fact.
> 
> I'm not bothering to look up the 6-man matches at the beginning of the year which were losing viewers week after week.


Note this same article mentions this



> Do these numbers definitively prove that Omega is NOT a draw? Of course not. There are many factors to consider. These are 15 minute averages of the segments he appeared in. He may have only been in 5 minutes of one segment and all 15 in another. There may have been 7 minutes of commercials during a segment. But the more data we have, the more we can start to believe what the numbers seem to be saying.


Also, Omega was also used more as a tag guy for most of 2020, and only started getting the singles push near the end of the year. Now with him as world champ and all I'd be curious to see if the numbers are any different.


----------



## bdon

Something meaningful, and Omega provides biggest PPV buys, highest rated segments, highest rated shows, most weeks at #1, but it has nothing to do with him, @The Doctor Middy Experience .

Didn’t you get the memo, sir?


----------



## bdon

_The other thing to look at is the average number of viewers per segment. All 10 of the top people in this category are in AEW. Omega finishes 13th in this category with an average of 829,350 viewers per segment. But a key piece of data here is that he appeared in 50 segments in the year. Now you may question how that number is 50 here but only 39 when I referenced 2020 earlier. Well that’s because 11 of the segments opened the show, which is a very important segment. So AEW must feel that Omega is a very important part of the show. The only wrestler in 2020 to appear in more segments over the course of the year was Chris Jericho, at 57 and Cody, at 51. And that doesn’t include the times Jericho was on commentary_

AEW booking Omega in the first part of the show clearly shows they ARE TRYING TO FUCKING SABOTAGE THEIR OWN SHOW AND GIVE NXT A HEADSTART!! VINCE OWNS AEW!!! THE BASTARDS!!! Lol


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> Note this same article mentions this
> 
> 
> 
> Also, Omega was also used more as a tag guy for most of 2020, and only started getting the singles push near the end of the year. Now with him as world champ and all I'd be curious to see if the numbers are any different.


*Middy, it's been 8 months. This thread is archived. You can literally go back several pages before the Hangman arc and see that Omega was not drawing as champion. *


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Fwiw, I don't see an issue with the drawing power of any of Brit, Darby, Mox, Omega, Hangman or the Bucks...or even OC and a few others. There are many factors to consider when analysing the stats but all in all they're all doing fine imo. It feels like people struggle to separate their bias and feel the need to push a certain narrative - do we need to pit these acts up against each other at all? They're all important cogs in a machine that is currently performing very well.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Pentagon Senior said:


> Fwiw, I don't see an issue with the drawing power of any of Brit, Darby, Mox, Omega, Hangman or the Bucks...or even OC and a few others. There are many factors to consider when analysing the stats but all in all they're all doing fine imo. It feels like people struggle to separate their bias and feel the need to push a certain narrative - do we need to pit these acts up against each other at all? They're all important cogs in a machine that is currently performing very well.


*No, because @bdon decided to gloat about Kenny "always" being a top draw in spite of him not doing shit until feuding with Hangman. You don't get to do that when we have receipts of the contrary, including Impact having its lowest ratings ever. So much for his mere presence elevating that brand.*


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *No, because @bdon decided to gloat about Kenny "always" being a top draw in spite of him not doing shit until feuding with Hangman.*


Dude, you gloat about Britt Baker and Darby Allin (aka your top favorites) being top draws ALL the time though 😂

Why can't @bdon do the same here, or is that only acceptable when *you* do it?


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Legit DMD said:


> *No, because @bdon decided to gloat about Kenny "always" being a top draw in spite of him not doing shit until feuding with Hangman.*


To be fair his booking wasn't great for a while before the Hangman stuff, there are various factors like I said. I don't think of Omega as a super draw, neither do I see him as a negative draw, all things considered. What I do see though is people who are fans of his saying he's a draw and people who don't like him saying he isn't. And we see the same with other wrestlers too - just seems predictable to me 🤷‍♂️

The main thing for me is the AEW product is doing well with the likes of Omega, Hangman, Bucks, Brit, Mox and Darby all front and centre. No need to use one to bash the other imo.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Pentagon Senior said:


> To be fair his booking wasn't great for a while before the Hangman stuff, there are various factors like I said. I don't think of Omega as a super draw, neither do I see him as a negative draw, all things considered. What I do see though is people who are fans of his saying he's a draw and people who don't like him saying he isn't. And we see the same with other wrestlers too - just seems predictable to me 🤷‍♂️


*I said the same thing you said not too long ago. I never said he was a ratings killer, but he's not the top draw that his fans say he is. Darby and Britt actually are.* * I've been saying it for a year and they've proven it every time, with or without major storylines*. *Kenny hasn't.*


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *No, because @bdon decided to gloat about Kenny "always" being a top draw in spite of him not doing shit until feuding with Hangman. You don't get to do that when we have receipts of the contrary, including Impact having its lowest ratings ever. So much for his mere presence elevating that brand.*


Q4 2019 and Q1 of 2020, I went back in a post in early 2020 and showed that Cody was being listed as “a draw” for gaining viewers in a FIFTEEN MINUTE SEGMENT that he appeared for all of 3 minutes.

The point is that you need minute-by-minute stats to show this sort of stuff.

What we do know is that Omega was now the main event of the highest buy rate in AEW history, was champion during its longest run at #1 for the night while being in the highest rated segments, highest rated segments with women and beating Raw in that demo for the week, etc.

On top of biggest buys Impact has had in however long, part of NJPW’s push into the west, and has 3 companies (likely ending with a 4th in NJPW) all dying to book him as their Top Guy.

Shitty draw indeed.


----------



## DammitChrist

For the record, I don't think anyone in AEW is a big TV draw atm.

I think it's basically a collective group effort among the top talents in AEW to lure in their fair share of fans to the product.

Right now, the likes of Kenny Omega, Britt Baker, Adam Page, Chris Jericho, Darby Allin, Sting, Jon Moxley, and Cody Rhodes are ALL doing their parts luring in some fans 

Names like Malakai Black and Thunder Rosa have the potential to be right up there as well.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

bdon said:


> Q4 2019 and Q1 of 2020, I went back in a post in early 2020 and showed that Cody was being listed as “a draw” for gaining viewers in a FIFTEEN MINUTE SEGMENT that he appeared for all of 3 minutes.
> 
> The point is that you need minute-by-minute stats to show this sort of stuff.
> 
> What we do know is that Omega was now the main event of the highest buy rate in AEW history, was champion during its longest run at #1 for the night while being in the highest rated segments, highest rated segments with women and beating Raw in that demo for the week, etc.
> 
> On top of biggest buys Impact has had in however long, part of NJPW’s push into the west, and has 3 companies (likely ending with a 4th in NJPW) all dying to book him as their Top Guy.
> 
> Shitty draw indeed.


*But you continue to ignore that impact is doing their lowest ratings ever, why is that? You're the one that keeps telling me that Kenny holding the belt elevates them by proxy. *


----------



## bdon

Omega is a lucky mf’er to have all those things fall in his favor. Lol


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *But you continue to ignore that impact is doing their lowest ratings ever, why is that? You're the one that keeps telling me that Kenny holding the belt elevates them by proxy. *


Have you watched that show? I’m a Kenny fan, and I don’t even watch that shit. I don’t have time to sit for 2 hours to see what he’s going to do. Likely getting a Jay White match, and I STILL ain’t going to sit through The Decay and whatever other weird shit they doing to see Kenny and Jay cut on each other.

But I’ll be watching the PPV. Like most are doing.


----------



## bdon

See @The Legit DMD , we can discuss these things honestly. Lmao


----------



## DammitChrist

Yea, he's right.

I'm a BIG fan of both Kenny Omega and Jay White, but even I'm not willing enough to watch Impact 😂

I'll just check out their occasional clips featuring Omega and White.

I'm already invested enough in keeping up with WWE (except for Main Event), AEW, and NJPW. I can't be bothered to keep up with another promotion


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

bdon said:


> See @The Legit DMD , we can discuss these things honestly. Lmao


*I mean, I'm not going to argue your last point at all, LOL.*


----------



## bdon

I do think Impact would/could do better if they weren’t on AXS. They really aren’t a BAD show, but goddamn their roster is bad and goofy. The crossover shit is appealing, but it just isn’t enough for me to learn to enjoy the rest.

I still think TK should have bought Impact, kept it as a seperate promotion with its own contracts, and used it as the go-between for AEW, AAA, NJPW, etc crossover stuff.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

bdon said:


> I do think Impact would/could do better if they weren’t on AXS. They really aren’t a BAD show, but goddamn their roster is bad and goofy. The crossover shit is appealing, but it just isn’t enough for me to learn to enjoy the rest.
> 
> I still think TK should have bought Impact, kept it as a seperate promotion with its own contracts, and used it as the go-between for AEW, AAA, NJPW, etc crossover stuff.


*All I've been saying is Tony Khan needs to promote Omega's title matches over there on Dynamite and make them feel important. Maybe then we would actually care to watch the feuds on axxess.*


----------



## taker_2004

The Legit DMD said:


> *All I've been saying is Tony Khan needs to promote Omega's title matches over there on Dynamite and make them feel important. Maybe then we would actually care to watch the feuds on axxess.*


What's axxess?


----------



## bdon

And Darby is definitely a draw. He has “it”. Having Sting next to him no doubt helps (they know it too just as they had Sting come out randomly just to chase whoever through the crowd), but he’s a stud. Offers something that no one else in wrestling can with his underdog-style. Jeff Hardy comparisons are easy due to “enigmatic” factor, but Rey Mysterio Jr I’m WCW is a better comparison in my eyes with the way they fight from behind the 8-ball.


----------



## Tell it like it is

Most people watch impact on twitch because most don't even have asx tv. On another note Omega first night on impact it got 50,000+ views on twitch, and Jay only got 6k just saying.


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *All I've been saying is Tony Khan needs to promote Omega's title matches over there on Dynamite and make them feel important. Maybe then we would actually care to watch the feuds on axxess.*


Omega’s title reign got treated like Mox’s, like an afterthought by the company.

Which sort of begs the question, did Kenny open the forbidden door and force TK’s hand..?


----------



## bdon

Tell it like it is said:


> Most people watch impact on twitch because most don't even have asx tv. On another note Omega first night on impact it got 50,000+ views on twitch, and Jay only got 6k just saying.


Jay is not the draw Kenny is. Jay gets the credit in the WON papers for selling all those tickets at Madison Square Garden vs Okada, but everyone knows that show sold out with everyone expecting to see Omega vs Okada on US soil.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

bdon said:


> Omega’s title reign got treated like Mox’s, like an afterthought by the company.
> 
> Which sort of begs the question, did Kenny open the forbidden door and force TK’s hand..?


*This definitely seems more like a Kenny idea, but the execution has Tony Khan's goofy ass fingerprints all over it. I don't think Kenny would intentionally sabotage his reign like this, so I put all the blame on Tony.*


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *This definitely seems more like a Kenny idea, but the execution has Tony Khan's goofy ass fingerprints all over it. I don't think Kenny would intentionally sabotage his reign like this, so I put all the blame on Tony.*


Question: did you really take me to believe Kenny is the ultimate draw? If so, you got totally worked. Even I don’t think he’s the top draw, because he goes against the grain of everything that American audiences hold dearly in wrestling.

I just keep beating that drum, because that one douche in here kept blaming he and Hangman for AEW’s shitty numbers in early 2020.


----------



## CovidFan

taker_2004 said:


> What's axxess?


I think it's part of Wrestlemania weekend.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Impact is not easy for me to watch, otherwise I definitely would’ve watched the Kenny stuff

but in South Africa its on some random channel, 2 weeks late or something

i’d rather youtube highlight it


----------



## taker_2004

CovidFan said:


> I think it's part of Wrestlemania weekend.


Oh, yeah. Fan Axxess. Derp.

@The Legit DMD Fuck you for not answering my dumbass (<3).


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

taker_2004 said:


> Oh, yeah. Fan Axxess. Derp.
> 
> @The Legit DMD Fuck you for not answering my dumbass (<3).


*Lol, autocorrect bodied me. I meant the TNA channel.*


----------



## 3venflow

Does this bode ill for Grand Slam?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1423002124045127694


----------



## Erik.

3venflow said:


> Does this bode ill for Grand Slam?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1423002124045127694


I assume it's the New York Auto Show that have cancelled themselves?

If so, it doesn't really matter. 

The decision to cancel the show will be down to AEW, in my view.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> Does this bode ill for Grand Slam?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1423002124045127694


*@Smark1995 was right. They need to debut Punk and/or Bryan in front of fans before everything gets shut down again.*


----------



## omaroo

Would really suck big time if NYC show is cancelled. That was the show was really looking forward to the most.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

As a side note - south africa just went through the delta variant on the 3rd wave / and fair warning, it was a lot harder than wave 1 and 2

1 and 2 was a joke to me - 3 hit like a bus. My uncle got it and died in 2 weeks (no prior conditions), my sister had it, her husband and whole family too

her husband was hospitalised

about 5 people in my parent’s small church died

like - really bad

so, just a ‘from me to you’ - take the delta variant serious / its not like the prior ones

ok, I’ll get off my pulpit 

pps> this doesn’t mean they should cancel / but get the vax, wear the mask, sanitise sanitise sanitise is what I am saying


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> As a side note - south africa just went through the delta variant on the 3rd wave / and fair warning, it was a lot harder than wave 1 and 2
> 
> 1 and 2 was a joke to me - 3 hit like a bus. My uncle got it and died in 2 weeks (no prior conditions), my sister had it, her husband and whole family too
> 
> her husband was hospitalised
> 
> about 5 people in my parent’s small church died
> 
> like - really bad
> 
> so, just a ‘from me to you’ - take the delta variant serious / its not like the prior ones
> 
> ok, I’ll get off my pulpit
> 
> pps> this doesn’t mean they should cancel / but get the vax, wear the mask, sanitise sanitise sanitise is what I am saying


In other countries this variant is the less dangeeous one since the start of the pandemic.
In UK lot of cases but not a lot of deaths


----------



## Prosper

Ugh just debut Punk and Bryan next week.


----------



## omaroo

rbl85 said:


> In other countries this variant is the less dangeeous one since the start of the pandemic.
> In UK lot of cases but not a lot of deaths


Ye alot of cases here and rising. 

BUT minimal deaths and not same number of hospitalisations.


----------



## omaroo

Prosper said:


> Ugh just debut Punk and Bryan next week.


Personally think they should risk it and just wait for 2 weeks and see how things are. 

If no need to cancel then debut punk at united center and Bryan possibly before the NYC show just in case.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> In other countries this variant is the less dangeeous one since the start of the pandemic.
> In UK lot of cases but not a lot of deaths


I think that’s fair / our vax program as been slow as fuck - so hit us a lot harder


----------



## omaroo

Hate UK government but give credit vaccine rollout here has been one of the best in the world.


----------



## rbl85

omaroo said:


> Hate UK government but give credit vaccine rollout here has been one of the best in the world.


A lot of countries with way less people vaccinated are doing as good if not better than countries with a high % of vaccination


----------



## Randy Lahey

3venflow said:


> Does this bode ill for Grand Slam?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1423002124045127694


AEW should only get worried if the US Open bans fans. I mean, if US Open is played in a packed Arthur Ashe Stadium, then no way is AEW cancelled a few weeks later.

Given that last night's show was not that good compared to the prior shows (IMO of course) , I'm going to guess the the viewership dropped off alot during the show - I'll guess a 0.40 rating and a 970,000 overall


----------



## DammitChrist

Yea, I've seen multiple posts on Twitter where folks claimed that they're worn out by Daily's Place as a venue.

I can easily see a dip in viewership this week due to the location repelling some viewers since Daily's Place is a big reminder of the pandemic era recently.

I'll go with at least 900+ K viewers for this week.


----------



## ShadowCounter

I'll guess 827K. It's about that time for the doomsayers to come out of the woodwork to pronounce AEW's death again.


----------



## omaroo

Even if they get 900k or aa bit more still a decent rating. 

Shame the show was poor for the most part.


----------



## 3venflow

Rating for Dynamite...

Total Viewers: 1,102,000
18-49: 0.46

Viewership down 1% from last week, but 18-49 grew for the fourth week in a row.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

That is the same demo they did their first show?

edit> great number obvs


----------



## ShadowCounter

Damn if they stayed above a million with last nights show then they might not ever drop back below it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ShadowCounter said:


> Damn if they stayed above a million with last nights show then they might not ever drop back below it.


i mean, last night show was average

but it was still the best wrestling of the week IMO

(not that i watch any else these days - but from what i read in the twitterverse)


----------



## Dark Emperor

The numbers are consistently impressive now. 

I've been a critic in the past but I must admit they are keeping their fanbase interested now. Well played.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

That demo climb is something


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1423378599218909194


----------



## ShadowCounter

Shame that deathmatch ran off so many viewers, right?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

They’ll be touching tips with raw soon on demo

G R O W T H


----------



## 3venflow

It's the first time AEW has drawn 1 million viewers four weeks straight. Opening three episodes drew 1m+, then the fourth droppped to 963k.

Also the highest demo since episode #2.


----------



## Borko

Beautiful. Haters in absolute ruins


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ShadowCounter said:


> Shame that deathmatch ran off so many viewers, right?


i don’t even listen to the hyperbole anymore

its just noise in the face of results


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> It's the first time AEW has drawn 1 million viewers four weeks straight. Opening three episodes drew 1m+, then the fourth droppped to 963k.
> 
> Also the highest demo since episode #2.


do you remember what the demo was for episode 1?


----------



## ShadowCounter

Damn, they beat Smackdown in male 35-49 demo too.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ShadowCounter said:


> Damn they beat Smackdown in male 35-49 demo too.


wow, really?

that is pretty good for them


----------



## 3venflow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> do you remember what the demo was for episode 1?


Episode one was 0.68, episode two was 0.51, then it dropped to 0.44 for the third week.


----------



## Prosper

Wow last nights show was pretty weak for AEW standards and they retained the audience. Nice to see that a million+ looks to be becoming the norm. Demo looks great.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Virtually identical to last week’s. I’m shocked they’ve been able to maintain over 1.1 million this many weeks in a row.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

the thing about success is that it brings validity 

more and more people will start to check out AEW cause its clearly not a fly-by-night

we’re in for an interesting 12 months if Punk and Bryan debuts


----------



## A PG Attitude

So good to see this ratings growth after reading all the doom mongers all year saying AEW would never grow their audience.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

4 weeks at 1 million viewers ......is that a new company record?


----------



## DaSlacker

They now need to pull in that 50+ demo who watch Monday Night Raw out of habit. 

Will be interesting to see what impact Punk, Bryan + potentially Wyatt, Cole and Flair have in that regard. Plus the additional show(s). It's a difficult task getting the old timers to switch. I mean, whatever criticism people have of AEW, it's definitely several times better than Raw.


----------



## Prosper

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the thing about success is that it brings validity
> 
> more and more people will start to check out AEW cause its clearly not a fly-by-night
> 
> we’re in for an interesting 12 months if Punk and Bryan debuts


Yep they’re pulling these numbers with no Punk or Bryan so I’m thinking 1.4 mil minimum when they debut


----------



## RogueSlayer

1.1 million for a filler show at Daily's place that's a massive win in my books.

Hopefully COVID don't fuck things up because with Punk and Bryan on the way the ratings will only go up and up


----------



## ShadowCounter

$Dolladrew$ said:


> 4 weeks at 1 million viewers ......is that a new company record?


Yes



DaSlacker said:


> They now need to pull in that 50+ demo who watch Monday Night Raw out of habit.
> 
> Will be interesting to see what impact Punk, Bryan + potentially Wyatt, Cole and Flair have in that regard. Plus the additional show(s). It's a difficult task getting the old timers to switch. I mean, whatever criticism people have of AEW, it's definitely several times better than Raw.


Time for BTE to bring back 50 seconds for 50 plus.



Next week will be the real tell with the Challenge coming back. If they stay above a million with that competition they aren't dropping below a million again.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ShadowCounter said:


> Yes
> 
> 
> 
> Time for BTE to bring back 50 seconds for 50 plus.
> 
> 
> 
> Next week will be the real tell with the Challenge coming back. If they stay above a million with that competition they aren't dropping below a million again.


is Challenge back?? D’oh! The real competition!


----------



## Swan-San

Good/decent shows back-to-back deserves the ratings. They have more talent now and with Punk and Bryan, hopefully less Joey Janela's being presented as legit, and the show continues to improve.


----------



## Mr316

Not surprised by the great rating at all. Energy of the show last night was phenomenal.


----------



## Mister Sinister

ShadowCounter said:


> Shame that deathmatch ran off so many viewers, right?


Maybe they would have done 1.3 million this week if they hadn't had that dumpster fire of a match that got them negative press and a potential DNA request from a major sponsor.


----------



## omaroo

Bloody hell 

Was wrong. Brilliant rating again and great demo.

Disappointed show wasnt as good but fair play AEW.

Really hope next few months we can see ratings push towards 1.4-1.5


----------



## omaroo

Mister Sinister said:


> Maybe they would have done 1.3 million this week if they hadn't had that dumpster fire of a match that got them negative press and a potential DNA request from a major sponsor.


Clutching at straws there mate.

No one was expecting a 1.3 million..apart from you maybe.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Mister Sinister said:


> Maybe they would have done 1.3 million this week if they hadn't had that dumpster fire of a match that got them negative press and a potential DNA request from a major sponsor.


Give it a rest pal.


----------



## Erik.

Thats ridiculously impressive. 

Bodes well for Punk and Bryan


----------



## ShadowCounter

Mister Sinister said:


> Maybe they would have done 1.3 million this week if they hadn't had that dumpster fire of a match that got them negative press and a potential DNA request from a major sponsor.


----------



## La Parka

Enjoyable show. Solid rating. 

Everything outside of the elite and Jericho was fun.


----------



## .christopher.

Keep above a million until Bryan and Punk arrive, then hopefully kick on even more when they do.

If WWE keep burying the roster for that bum Reigns, and AEW keep this up, it won't be long until they catch them in the ratings.


----------



## Dark Emperor

.christopher. said:


> Keep above a million until Bryan and Punk arrive, then hopefully kick on even more when they do.
> 
> If WWE keep burying the roster for that bum Reigns, and AEW keep this up, it won't be long until they catch them in the ratings.


I don't really see AEW getting 1.8 - 2.1m viewership anytime soon. You are basically expecting them to increase the current rating by 70-90%. Even with Punk, they wont care near this regularly for a long time except maybe for the heavily advertised debut.

The demo is closer but let's be honest. It's only became a gauge recently to make AEW look good in comparison.


----------



## rbl85

A PG Attitude said:


> So good to see this ratings growth after reading all the doom mongers all year saying AEW would never grow their audience.


Or the famous "they are losing viewers" after the friday shows XD


----------



## yeahright2

Ratings are in.. There´s a slight drop, but nearly the same number as last week. So the Meth head didn´t run off a lot of fans.

AEW Ratings prediction game
Congrats @Prized Fighter , you just beat @LifeInCattleClass , the unbearable optimist 

The show wasn´t that good imo, but most wrestling sucks these days, and they weren´t worse than Raw or Smackdown.. But they need to stay sharp and not think the holy grail is found, especially with an extra show starting.


----------



## .christopher.

Dark Emperor said:


> I don't really see AEW getting 1.8 - 2.1m viewership anytime soon. You are basically expecting them to increase the current rating by 70-90%. Even with Punk, they wont care near this regularly for a long time except maybe for the heavily advertised debut.
> 
> The demo is closer but let's be honest. It's only became a gauge recently to make AEW look good in comparison.


What I'm expecting isn't that, mate.

Personally, if AEW stay above a million, I expect Punk and Bryan to bring in a few hundred thousand, taking to the mid range between 1-2m, and, with WWEs impressive rate of losing viewers, I don't think it'll be long until they sink to that range, too.

So, it's not so much AEW climbing to 2m, but a mix of them climbing to mid 1m range and WWE eventually sinking to that.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

.christopher. said:


> What I'm expecting isn't that, mate.
> 
> Personally, if AEW stay above a million, I expect Punk and Bryan to bring in a few hundred thousand, taking to the mid range between 1-2m, and, with WWEs impressive rate of losing viewers, I don't think it'll be long until they sink to that range, too.
> 
> So, it's not so much AEW climbing to 2m, but a mix of them climbing to mid 1m range and WWE eventually sinking to that.


*I think Bryan and Punk could realistically hit 1.5 mil.*


----------



## CovidFan

The Legit DMD said:


> *I think Bryan and Punk could realistically hit 1.5 mil.*


Agreed and with MNF, RAW may whittle down to 1.4 million by the end of the year. Should be pretty interesting when 2022 gets here.


----------



## elo

Great rating, a solid million are weekly watchers - not casuals who only tune in for big cards.

NHL and NBA are only 2 months away.....what's the plan until the January move Tony? You have a solid million tuning in weekly on a Wednesday night, complete death when TNT moved Dynamite to a Friday.....MUST have plans in place NOW.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

elo said:


> Great rating, a solid million are weekly watchers - not casuals who only tune in for big cards.
> 
> NHL and NBA are only 2 months away.....what's the plan until the January move Tony? You have a solid million tuning in weekly on a Wednesday night, complete death when TNT moved Dynamite to a Friday.....MUST have plans in place NOW.


*They need an 8 o clock slot if they move days. That 10 spot is ass.*


----------



## Chan Hung

DaSlacker said:


> They now need to pull in that 50+ demo who watch Monday Night Raw out of habit.


Feature more of: Big Show, Ric Flair, Sting, maybe bring in DDP lol


----------



## RapShepard

Good on them they're having a good month of ratings with these big shows. If they can keep it up they'll be in a great place


----------



## DaSlacker

Dark Emperor said:


> I don't really see AEW getting 1.8 - 2.1m viewership anytime soon. You are basically expecting them to increase the current rating by 70-90%. Even with Punk, they wont care near this regularly for a long time except maybe for the heavily advertised debut.
> 
> The demo is closer but let's be honest. It's only became a gauge recently to make AEW look good in comparison.


2 million plus is out of the question. But 1.8 million isn't as impossible as it sounds. 

WCW went from 1.6 million households unopposed in mid 1994 to 3.5 million households opposed by the end of 1997. So more than a 125% increase in 3 years. A similar jump would leave AEW on 1.3 million viewers. But the numbers are schewed by the pandemic and head to head competition with NXT. As was Nitro's numbers due to being head to head with Raw. 

Furthermore, the audience now is the hard cores of hardcores. Plus Raw is near unwatchable. Converting across the middle aged boomers and middle aged demo from the dead in the water Monday slot. It's definitely possible the more star power pops up on Wednesday and disappears on Monday.


----------



## yeahright2

RapShepard said:


> Good on them they're having a good month of ratings with these big shows. If they can keep it up they'll be in a great place


That is the question though.. They´ve basically done a month of special almost PPV-like shows. What happens when they return to just regular throwaway Dynamite episodes?


----------



## Randy Lahey

3venflow said:


> Rating for Dynamite...
> 
> Total Viewers: 1,102,000
> 18-49: 0.46
> 
> Viewership down 1% from last week, but 18-49 grew for the fourth week in a row.


IF they are doing a 0.46 for a nothing show like last night, just imagine what they'll do with CM Punk. Last night really should be the baseline of the show going forward because it was the last compelling show they could have ran in a place they've been at a million times before. Thats very impressive to do that number.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Haven't really enjoyed the last couple of shows but hey they're getting results, that's the important thing, good for them, those are some impressive numbers. Think people are being a little too optimistic about them getting up to RAW numbers but meh we'll see.


----------



## Randy Lahey

What do you think last night's show was? That was a filler show in Daily's place before Punk and Bryan even get here. And they did a 0.46. Raw this week did a 0.51. In the Fall, Raw will be up against MNF, and AEW will have Punk/Bryan. I would expect AEW to win the demo battle in the fall, and once they win it, they'll keep winning it because AEW isn't losing viewers like Raw has been on a consistent basis.

For overall viewers, well all Raw's numbers prove is there's a ton of old people that still watch Raw. Just like there's a ton of old people that watch Cable news, and if you look at the ratings every night, the most viewed shows are still Cable news, despite being bad demos.

Lot of E clowns in this thread. Some day you guys just need to take a L and just shut the hell up.


----------



## Chan Hung

Well they've been getting more audience the last few weeks vs their usual 800,000 average which is good.


----------



## 3venflow

Fans probably make a difference. It's easier to watch wrestling with fans, part of the whole appeal of watching it is the energy created by them. Imagine the glass hit and Stone Cold came out to... silence. It wouldn't have had the same impact, obviously.


----------



## RapShepard

yeahright2 said:


> That is the question though.. They´ve basically done a month of special almost PPV-like shows. What happens when they return to just regular throwaway Dynamite episodes?


If they can find a nice balance of doing the WWE star vs star matches without doing the WWE rematch revolution they should be able to stay steady. Also just find good stories


----------



## 3venflow

Grand Slam has now hit 17,000 sold. Scalper seats are also going.

Current config is for 18,692.

Really hope this show isn't cancelled, it'll look spectacular on TV.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

3venflow said:


> Grand Slam has now hit 17,000 sold. Scalper seats are also going.
> 
> Current config is for 18,692.
> 
> Really hope this show isn't cancelled, it'll look spectacular on TV.


Hopefully they stop copying WCW in this regard and put a big PPV in an arena like this soon. Omega vs Bryan Danielson or Punk could easily do it.

Starrcade 98 and Nitro the next night is the funniest comparison in that regard. 20K for Starrcade and 40+K for Nitro in the Georgia Dome! Lol.

Still, it'll definitely look cool on TV. Let's hope for the best and that the show goes on like planned.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

ShadowCounter said:


> Shame that deathmatch ran off so many viewers, right?





Borko said:


> Beautiful. Haters in absolute ruins





A PG Attitude said:


> So good to see this ratings growth after reading all the doom mongers all year saying AEW would never grow their audience.





rbl85 said:


> Or the famous "they are losing viewers" after the friday shows XD



---

I just wanted to touch on these posts and posts like these. You guys would have less fighting and less "Haha AEW lost ratings!" if you guys didn't make posts like this every single week.

It's pretty cringe coming in here to see stuff like that and it drives people away from admitting that they may have been wrong due to the arrogance from the fanbase.

1.1 million is indeed a great rating and good for AEW for doing much better.


----------



## La Parka

Chip Chipperson said:


> ---
> 
> I just wanted to touch on these posts and posts like these. You guys would have less fighting and less "Haha AEW lost ratings!" if you guys didn't make posts like this every single week.
> 
> It's pretty cringe coming in here to see stuff like that and it drives people away from admitting that they may have been wrong due to the arrogance from the fanbase.
> 
> 1.1 million is indeed a great rating and good for AEW for doing much better.


The wood still being banned while the above won’t ever be punished is quite humorous.


----------



## DammitChrist

La Parka said:


> The wood still being banned while the above won’t ever be punished is quite humorous.


He’s not coming back, and neither of those happy fans should be punished.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> He’s not coming back, and neither of those happy fans should be punished.


They can be happy but screaming nonsense like "HATERS IN ABSOLUTE RUINS!" or "Shame that deathmatch ran everyone off AYE BOYS?!" is just cringey and not needed.

Most of the "haters" I recognise are on earlier pages saying great job to AEW...there may not even be haters anymore


----------



## omaroo

NYC could legit do well over 20,000 at that stadium. 

I am nervous about the Chicago and NY shows and generally all other shows on the road. 

Think its proven how much more entertaining wrestling is when you have a packed crowd.


----------



## .christopher.

The Legit DMD said:


> *I think Bryan and Punk could realistically hit 1.5 mil.*


With all the hype, you'd expect something like that. The tricky thing will be - if they reach that level - maintaining it weekly. That's where the hype becomes less of a factor and actually producing content that grips the few hundred thousand with good booking comes into play.


La Parka said:


> The wood still being banned while the above won’t ever be punished is quite humorous.


Mods won't explain their reasoning either. Mainly because they have no legitimate reason, but still. They could at least try and bullshit their way out of it.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

.christopher. said:


> With all the hype, you'd expect something like that. The tricky thing will be - if they reach that level - maintaining it weekly. That's where the hype becomes less of a factor and actually producing content that grips the few hundred thousand with good booking comes into play.
> 
> Mods won't explain their reasoning either. Mainly because they have no legitimate reason, but still. They could at least try and bullshit their way out of it.


Wood got banned for attacking mods IIRC he ain't ever coming back.....good riddance.


----------



## .christopher.

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Wood got banned for attacking mods IIRC he ain't ever coming back.....good riddance.


I don't recall him attacking anyone. Dude just posted his opinions on wrestling and was constantly attacked for it himself. He didn't even insult the posters who were constantly insulting him.


----------



## Aedubya

Who is Wood?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Aedubya said:


> Who is Wood?


He was a poster here who would write negative things about AEW. Labelled a troll but to be honest he was a really educated wrestling fan who knew how it should be.

I myself don't know why he was banned but I don't know him to be a person that attacked others or attacked mods. He usually avoided the drama.


----------



## CovidFan

.christopher. said:


> Mods won't explain their reasoning either. Mainly because they have no legitimate reason, but still. They could at least try and bullshit their way out of it.


Headliner did explain it. He thought Wood was too ott with his baiting of AEW fans and he kept him banned. End of.

No, Headliner didn't use those words but if you're an adult with comprehension skills, you can read in between the lines...


----------



## thorn123

i hope they maintain that next week after a drop in show quality


----------



## .christopher.

CovidFan said:


> Headliner did explain it. He thought Wood was too ott with his baiting of AEW fans and he kept him banned. End of.
> 
> No, Headliner didn't use those words but if you're an adult with comprehension skills, you can read in between the lines...


Well, if you're an adult with comprehension skills, you'd realise that 90% of this forum do that and go unpunished.

It's a bullshit excuse.


----------



## Mister Sinister

omaroo said:


> Clutching at straws there mate.
> 
> No one was expecting a 1.3 million..apart from you maybe.


They should start expecting it. They need to keep their nose clean, don't do anymore slaughterhouse shit and deliver on the expectations of fans. Fans are seeing more stars in AEW and expecting Bray, Danielson and Punk next. Soon, the show will be packed with names. This New York show is their chance. They are going to have such a crowd that the energy will be a game changer (if we don't find ourselves in a national lockdown by then).


----------



## NXT Only

Aedubya said:


> Who is Wood?


He complained up and down about AEW. Anytime you liked something he told you why it actually wasn’t good.


----------



## borklaser2021

Do u think the 4200 resales for the United Center gonna be sold? I mean the prize is very vey high and it would look like shit if there are 4200 emty seats


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Hehehe found this online


----------



## Erik.

I think expecting 400,000 extra viewers for Punk and Bryan is pushing it abit. 

I feel like most who care about Bryan are probably already watching AEW anyway. 

Itll be interesting to see Punks pull - though I expect the majority of those who tune in at the start of Punks tenure will tune in just to see Punk on a wrestling show for the first time in years and not actually a long term viewer.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> I think expecting 400,000 extra viewers for Punk and Bryan is pushing it abit.
> 
> I feel like most who care about Bryan are probably already watching AEW anyway.
> 
> Itll be interesting to see Punks pull - though I expect the majority of those who tune in at the start of Punks tenure will tune in just to see Punk on a wrestling show for the first time in years and not actually a long term viewer.


1.2m should be their new base when the lustre has worn off

punk / bryan will bring in 100k consistent viewers more longterm

the demo though… might be a different story / think that’ll go up to 0.5 maybe


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> ---
> 
> I just wanted to touch on these posts and posts like these. You guys would have less fighting and less "Haha AEW lost ratings!" if you guys didn't make posts like this every single week.
> 
> It's pretty cringe coming in here to see stuff like that and it drives people away from admitting that they may have been wrong due to the arrogance from the fanbase.
> 
> 1.1 million is indeed a great rating and good for AEW for doing much better.


Please - its a circle that all sides have been gleefully participating in for 2 years now

let’s not play victim now / they will go down again at some point - either because of sports finals, or move to TBS or whatever - and then the reverse will happen

the only cringe thing is people being butthurt by all this


----------



## .christopher.

Erik. said:


> I think expecting 400,000 extra viewers for Punk and Bryan is pushing it abit.
> 
> I feel like most who care about Bryan are probably already watching AEW anyway.
> 
> Itll be interesting to see Punks pull - though I expect the majority of those who tune in at the start of Punks tenure will tune in just to see Punk on a wrestling show for the first time in years and not actually a long term viewer.


Probably. You're definitely right about Bryan fans most likely already watching. Punk is going to be the main draw. It's just that - with their history, and being two of the most over wrestlers this past decade - them coming in at the same time adds more hype to Bryan by proxy.

How many viewers did Punk bring to that WWE talk show? That's obviously not a good measuring stick but it'd be interesting to see nonetheless.


----------



## zkorejo

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1423387042906460163


----------



## A PG Attitude

Aedubya said:


> Who is Wood?


He made the AEW forum insufferable. A lot of people had him on ignore.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Darby peaked in viewers again to the surprise of no one who's been paying attention.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1423608602229501952*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Another great number for Moxley!


----------



## 3venflow




----------



## #BadNewsSanta

lol well if those quarters are accurate, that tweet making out the Mox/Darby tag to be this big draw was hilarious. Directv outages aside, says it was 2 minutes in the second quarter.

Looks like the real draw of the beginning of the show was Jericho, his match with Juvented, and the subsequent aftermath with MJF. They started with 1.2 million which is crazy (they keep starting with more viewers every week which is a good sign).


----------



## 3venflow

Also, AEW wasn't actually #1 on cable in the 18-49 last night despite the huge demo, because USA aired four hours of the Olympics and that won by 5,000 viewers.


----------



## bdon

3venflow said:


> It's the first time AEW has drawn 1 million viewers four weeks straight. Opening three episodes drew 1m+, then the fourth droppped to 963k.
> 
> Also the highest demo since episode #2.


Kenny BAH GOD Omega @The Legit DMD lol


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> I just wanted to touch on these posts and posts like these. You guys would have less fighting and less "Haha AEW lost ratings!" if you guys didn't make posts like this every single week.
> 
> It's pretty cringe coming in here to see stuff like that and *it drives people away from admitting that they may have been wrong due to the arrogance from the fanbase.*
> 
> 1.1 million is indeed a great rating and good for AEW for doing much better.


This holds true for the other side as well. It’s been my biggest pet peeve since joining the forum if you recall. I’ve been labeled a hater and an AEW diehard. I just want intellectual honesty.

Except when it comes to Omega, because it’s just fun to fuck off and act like the man is perfect. Lmao


----------



## bdon

Aedubya said:


> Who is Wood?


The most intelligent about the business, yet stubborn and stuck in his ways, poster on the board.


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *Darby peaked in viewers again to the surprise of no one who's been paying attention.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1423608602229501952*


For 2 minutes of the quarter.

See why relying on quarter hour numbers is stupid? The rest of there segment lost nearly a 100k viewers. And even that doesn’t prove he ISN’T a draw.


----------



## izhack111

Give MJF the belt let him feud vs Bryan/Punk they will get 1.4/1.5 easily


----------



## Chip Chipperson

izhack111 said:


> Give MJF the belt let him feud vs Bryan/Punk they will get 1.4/1.5 easily


Bryan/MJF is what I'd like to see. Bryan as the underdog babyface which he excels at and MJF as the pompous arrogant fuck. Sounds like a pretty good starter storyline to me.

Don't think the two would have a bad 15-20 minute match on PPV either...


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

bdon said:


> For 2 minutes of the quarter.
> 
> See why relying on quarter hour numbers is stupid? The rest of there segment lost nearly a 100k viewers. And even that doesn’t prove he ISN’T a draw.
> View attachment 105803


*It still peaked viewership by a lot compared to everything outside of the opening segment. Britt also beat Kenny again, so these numbers remain consistent with everything I said the other day (and the whole year). Hangman carried your guy and now that he's out of All Out, interest significantly dropped. *


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *It still peaked viewership by a lot compared to everything outside of the opening segment. Britt also beat Kenny again, so these numbers remain consistent with everything I said the other day (and the whole year). Hangman carried your guy and now that he's out of All Out, interest significantly dropped. *


Oh, you're just going to ignore Kenny Omega's number doing better than Britt Baker last week then (even though you've specifically claimed multiple times that the Elite is "luring away the audience with their nonsense")? 😂

Seriously, how does Omega's segment still being able to maintain over 1 million viewers equate to "interest significantly dropping?"

Seriously, just admit that you're biased as hell, and that you're blatantly twisting these numbers to suit your mediocre argument.

You were already called out earlier for gloating over Darby Allin's 2 minutes (while also being predictable by refusing to give Jon Moxley and even Sting any credit too, which isn't surprising due to the obvious bias).


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *It still peaked viewership by a lot compared to everything outside of the opening segment. Britt also beat Kenny again, so these numbers remain consistent with everything I said the other day (and the whole year). Hangman carried your guy and now that he's out of All Out, interest significantly dropped. *


Again, that is NOT what that graph shows. That graph shows that he had a total of 2 minutes in a 15-minute segment. 140k people decided to tune out. This is the same argument Cody fans tried to use as proof that he was a draw in early 2020 when “his” 15-minute quarter hour would do 100k+ views, yet he only accounted for 1 minute and a half of the quarter hour.

Get it right?

Britt Baker’s quarter hour lost 50k more views, of which she only accounted for 4 out of 15 minutes. How does this show anything? It doesn’t mean she lost viewers. It means that entire quarter hour lost viewers.

Do you understand how these things work..?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

bdon said:


> Again, that is NOT what that graph shows. That graph shows that he had a total of 2 minutes in a 15-minute segment. 140k people decided to tune out. This is the same argument Cody fans tried to use as proof that he was a draw in early 2020 when “his” 15-minute quarter hour would do 100k+ views, yet he only accounted for 1 minute and a half of the quarter hour.
> 
> Get it right?
> 
> Britt Baker’s quarter hour lost 50k more views, of which she only accounted for 4 out of 15 minutes. How does this show anything? It doesn’t mean she lost viewers. It means that entire quarter hour lost viewers.
> 
> Do you understand how these things work..?


*So what you're saying is you have no evidence that Kenny is a draw? *


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *It still peaked viewership by a lot compared to everything outside of the opening segment. Britt also beat Kenny again, so these numbers remain consistent with everything I said the other day (and the whole year). Hangman carried your guy and now that he's out of All Out, interest significantly dropped. *


Hey everyone. We seem to have found Adam Cole. Lol


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *So what you're saying is you have no evidence that Kenny is a draw? *


Of course I don’t. I admitted to fucking off. I have said time and time again I am only pointing out the fallacy of using quarter hour numbers as proof of one’s ability to draw. OC was killing the quarter hour numbers this time last year relative to everyone else, does that make him a draw? Is anyone willing to pay out of pocket money to watch an Orange Cassidy? Fuck no, they aren’t.

My entire shtick with this Kenny draw stuff was in response to some crazy MJF/Mox nutcase who kept claiming Kenny and Hangman weren’t carrying their weight as tag champions last year.

You seem to have missed the multiple times I’ve said this.

B - Bah God - Don done worked the crowd again. Lol


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

bdon said:


> Of course I don’t. I admitted to fucking off. I have said time and time again I am only pointing out the fallacy of using quarter hour numbers as proof of one’s ability to draw. OC was killing the quarter hour numbers this time last year relative to everyone else, does that make him a draw? Is anyone willing to pay out of pocket money to watch an Orange Cassidy? Fuck no, they aren’t.
> 
> My entire shtick with this Kenny draw stuff was in response to some crazy MJF/Mox nutcase who kept claiming Kenny and Hangman weren’t carrying their weight as tag champions last year.
> 
> You seem to have missed the multiple times I’ve said this.
> 
> B - Bah God - Don done worked the crowd again. Lol


*I admittedly didn't pay attention to the Kenny tag team stuff because I didn't care. Last year, I was more focused on Shida.*


----------



## rbl85

A quarter rating is only good to show if a wrestler or an angle was a draw when it takes at least 10min of the quarter.
You can put Punk in a quarter, if he take 4min of the quarter and the rest is commercials + backstage interview then the rating for this quarter is probably going down.


----------



## Brad Boyd

DammitChrist said:


> Oh, you're just going to ignore Kenny Omega's number doing better than Britt Baker last week then (even though you've specifically claimed multiple times that the Elite is "luring away the audience with their nonsense")? 😂
> 
> Seriously, how does Omega's segment still being able to maintain over 1 million viewers equate to "interest significantly dropping?"
> 
> Seriously, just admit that you're biased as hell, and that you're blatantly twisting these numbers to suit your mediocre argument.
> 
> You were already called out earlier for gloating over Darby Allin's 2 minutes (while also being predictable by refusing to give Jon Moxley and even Sting any credit too, which isn't surprising due to the obvious bias).


Is this another scenario is where @The Legit DMD is ignoring your posts? Not sure what this is leading to. More classic jabs at eachother in the rants section?


----------



## A PG Attitude

Its kind of funny when you sit back and think how daft it is that people are arguing about TV ratings for 15 minute segments of a wrestling show.


----------



## bdon

So, you mean to tell me, a Kenny Omega promo and subsequently beating the shit out Page GREW the demo after Britt Baker, @The Legit DMD.

Kenny BAH GOD Omega!!!


----------



## 3venflow

This is the fourth most important Chicago show coming up for AEW and has moved over 5,000 tickets.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1424017510689644549


----------



## Randy Lahey

bdon said:


> For 2 minutes of the quarter.
> 
> See why relying on quarter hour numbers is stupid? The rest of there segment lost nearly a 100k viewers. And even that doesn’t prove he ISN’T a draw.
> View attachment 105803


Those numbers tell me Christian Cage isn’t a draw. But I knew that already.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

bdon said:


> View attachment 105845
> 
> 
> So, you mean to tell me, a Kenny Omega promo and subsequently beating the shit out Page GREW the demo after Britt Baker, @The Legit DMD.
> 
> Kenny BAH GOD Omega!!!


*Fuck the demo, we got more total viewers. Let the old men enjoy Britt's fine ass too!

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1423601662745190403*


----------



## Prized Fighter

The Legit DMD said:


> *Fuck the demo, we got more total viewers. Let the old men enjoy Britt's fine ass too!
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1423601662745190403*


Imagine thinking a 5000 viewers difference is something worth bragging about.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Randy Lahey said:


> Those numbers tell me Christian Cage isn’t a draw. But I knew that already.


Imagine spending in the 750k - 1m a year range on Christian only to find out that he doesn't move numbers or bring anyone new in.


----------



## Erik.

Chip Chipperson said:


> Imagine spending in the 750k - 1m a year range on Christian only to find out that he doesn't move numbers or bring anyone new in.


Source on Christian Cages contract figures?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Erik. said:


> Source on Christian Cages contract figures?


An educated guess. It was reported when Matt Hardy signed that he was in the high six figures and Christian is no doubt a bigger name and therefore worth more.

Tony is also known for overpaying guys...


----------



## Erik.

Chip Chipperson said:


> An educated guess. It was reported when Matt Hardy signed that he was in the high six figures and Christian is no doubt a bigger name and therefore worth more.
> 
> Tony is also known for overpaying guys...


So no clue then. Made it up.

Got ya.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Erik. said:


> So no clue then. Made it up.
> 
> Got ya.


No, as I just said it's an educated guess. If Hardy is getting high six figures why would Christian get less?


----------



## Erik.

Chip Chipperson said:


> No, as I just said it's an educated guess. If Hardy is getting high six figures why would Christian get less?


"Tony is known for overpaying guys".....

Despite not having a clue what he's paying anyone.

Never change Chip, never change. Your contribution to this forum has always been hilarious.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Erik. said:


> "Tony is known for overpaying guys".....
> 
> Despite not having a clue what he's paying anyone.
> 
> Never change Chip, never change. Your contribution to this forum has always been hilarious.


Oh no, I never said I don't know what he's paying ANYONE.

Here is a list of the top 10 highest paid wrestlers in AEW:


*The 10 Highest Paid AEW Wrestlers*


*Wrestler**Earnings*1. Dean Ambrose$6 Million2. Chris Jericho$3 Million3. Kenny Omega$3 Million4. Cody Rhodes$3 Million5. Brandi Rhodes$2 Million6. Dustin Rhodes$2 Million7. Nyla Rose$2 Million8. Lucha Bros$2 Million9. Young Bucks$2 Million10. PAC$2 Million

Source: AEW Salary: Highest Paid AEW Wrestlers, Lowest Paid AEW Wrestler, Richest AEW Wrestler –

---

If Nyla Rose is making 2 million dollars a year do you really think Christian isn't making half that? Do you think Christian who is a much bigger name than PAC isn't getting at least half his salary? Christian who is bigger name and better in the ring than Dustin isn't getting AT LEAST half of his salary?

Hell, this website reports that the average AEW salary is 300k a year, don't you think that's a little much for the majority of their roster? You don't think Christian would get triple or quadruple what the average AEW roster member gets?


----------



## Erik.

Chip Chipperson said:


> Oh no, I never said I don't know what he's paying ANYONE.
> 
> Here is a list of the top 10 highest paid wrestlers in AEW:
> 
> 
> *The 10 Highest Paid AEW Wrestlers*
> 
> 
> *Wrestler**Earnings*1. Dean Ambrose$6 Million2. Chris Jericho$3 Million3. Kenny Omega$3 Million4. Cody Rhodes$3 Million5. Brandi Rhodes$2 Million6. Dustin Rhodes$2 Million7. Nyla Rose$2 Million8. Lucha Bros$2 Million9. Young Bucks$2 Million10. PAC$2 Million
> 
> Source: AEW Salary: Highest Paid AEW Wrestlers, Lowest Paid AEW Wrestler, Richest AEW Wrestler –
> 
> ---
> 
> If Nyla Rose is making 2 million dollars a year do you really think Christian isn't making half that? Do you think Christian who is a much bigger name than PAC isn't getting at least half his salary? Christian who is bigger name and better in the ring than Dustin isn't getting AT LEAST half of his salary?
> 
> Hell, this website reports that the average AEW salary is 300k a year, don't you think that's a little much for the majority of their roster? You don't think Christian would get triple or quadruple what the average AEW roster member gets?


You're more of an idiot than I thought if you truly believe Nyla Rose, someone with barely 1000 followers on Twitter prior to signing for AEW, is on $2,000,000 a year and the likes of Serpentico are getting $300,000 a year then going on to cite a source that lists Jon Moxley as Dean Ambrose and has Dusty Rhodes on the payroll. 

AEW Is a private company. How do you think "Sportlister" obtained this information? lol

Genuine idiot.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Erik. said:


> You're more of an idiot than I thought if you truly believe Nyla Rose is on $2,000,000 a year and the likes of Serpentico are getting $300,000 a year.
> 
> Genuine idiot.


Where's your source that they're not making that much? Cornette said on his podcast a while ago that the AEW homegrown guys are all on at least six figure contracts.

Can you actually debate without throwing personal insults as well?


----------



## Erik.

Chip Chipperson said:


> Where's your source that they're not making that much? Cornette said on his podcast a while ago that the AEW homegrown guys are all on six figure contracts.
> 
> Can you actually debate without throwing personal insults as well?


Your source lists Jon Moxley as "Dean Ambrose" as well as saying "Dusty Rhodes" (RIP) is on $2,000,000 a year. It's an embarrassment. I actually had to double check that you didn't link Kayfabenews.

You HONESTLY believe Jon Moxley is earning DOUBLE Chris Jerichos wage?

Despite Cody Rhodes himself stating that Chris Jericho literally has his own tier when it comes to contracts in AEW?

Source: Cody Rhodes Reveals How AEW Contract Tiers Work | WrestleTalk

Again, AEW is a PRIVATE company. How do you think Sportlister managed to gather this information? Gun to Tony Khans head?

And genuine LOL if you STILL believe a 37 year old Nyla Rose, with zero social media pull, was offered a $2,000,000 contract.


----------



## NXT Only

Chip Chipperson said:


> Where's your source that they're not making that much? Cornette said on his podcast a while ago that the AEW homegrown guys are all on at least six figure contracts.
> 
> Can you actually debate without throwing personal insults as well?


Cornette knows absolutely nothing about the inner workings of AEW.

There’s really no definitive answer to this debate between you both.

I mean there’s common sense and I doubt a new company would pay Nyla Rose 2M a year in salary while giving the likes of Omega and Rhodes 3M. But that’s just me.

He did call you genuine, not really an insult.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Erik. said:


> Your source lists Jon Moxley as "Dean Ambrose" as well as saying "Dusty Rhodes" (RIP) is on $2,000,000 a year. It's an embarrassment. I actually had to double check that you didn't link Kayfabenews.
> 
> You HONESTLY believe Jon Moxley is earning DOUBLE Chris Jerichos wage?
> 
> Despite Cody Rhodes himself stating that Chris Jericho literally has his own tier when it comes to contracts in AEW?
> 
> Source: Cody Rhodes Reveals How AEW Contract Tiers Work | WrestleTalk
> 
> Again, AEW is a PRIVATE company. How do you think Sportlister managed to gather this information? Gun to Tony Khans head?
> 
> And genuine LOL if you STILL believe a 37 year old Nyla Rose, with zero social media pull, was offered a $2,000,000 contract.


Dusty Rhodes is obviously a typo and quite an easy one to make.

Maybe there are two wrestlers in Tier Jericho? Not sure, I'd believe Mox is on bigger money than Jericho though considering he's younger and more relevant to current WWE fans. Double? Who knows? Tony is a strange cat, I wouldn't be surprised though.

Fair point on asking how would they know but Tony leaks info all the time so maybe that's what happened.



NXT Only said:


> Cornette knows absolutely nothing about the inner workings of AEW.
> 
> There’s really no definitive answer to this debate between you both.
> 
> I mean there’s common sense and I doubt a new company would pay Nyla Rose 2M a year in salary while giving the likes of Omega and Rhodes 3M. But that’s just me.
> 
> He did call you genuine, not really an insult.


Cornette actually was offered a gig in AEW and had to sign a non disclosure agreement so he obviously knows something about the inner workings of AEW. In regards to the salary situation if I recall correctly he said he got that information from some of his friends that are currently under contract with AEW.


----------



## Erik.

Chip Chipperson said:


> Dusty Rhodes is obviously a typo and quite an easy one to make.
> 
> Maybe there are two wrestlers in Tier Jericho? Not sure, I'd believe Mox is on bigger money than Jericho though considering he's younger and more relevant to current WWE fans. Double? Who knows? Tony is a strange cat, I wouldn't be surprised though.
> 
> Fair point on asking how would they know but Tony leaks info all the time so maybe that's what happened.


----------



## CM Buck

@Chip Chipperson ratings only. Contracts are irrelevant to ratings and buy rates. @Erik. Stop Insulting outside of rants


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The only thing i have ever heard confirmed, was that young permanent guys like Jungle Boy was on 75k per year


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Oh no, I never said I don't know what he's paying ANYONE.
> 
> Here is a list of the top 10 highest paid wrestlers in AEW:
> 
> 
> *The 10 Highest Paid AEW Wrestlers*
> 
> 
> *Wrestler**Earnings*1. Dean Ambrose$6 Million2. Chris Jericho$3 Million3. Kenny Omega$3 Million4. Cody Rhodes$3 Million5. Brandi Rhodes$2 Million6. Dustin Rhodes$2 Million7. Nyla Rose$2 Million8. Lucha Bros$2 Million9. Young Bucks$2 Million10. PAC$2 Million
> 
> Source: AEW Salary: Highest Paid AEW Wrestlers, Lowest Paid AEW Wrestler, Richest AEW Wrestler –
> 
> ---
> 
> If Nyla Rose is making 2 million dollars a year do you really think Christian isn't making half that? Do you think Christian who is a much bigger name than PAC isn't getting at least half his salary? Christian who is bigger name and better in the ring than Dustin isn't getting AT LEAST half of his salary?
> 
> Hell, this website reports that the average AEW salary is 300k a year, don't you think that's a little much for the majority of their roster? You don't think Christian would get triple or quadruple what the average AEW roster member gets?


Come on, bro. You know Nyla Rose is not making $2m a year. We used to laugh about Marko Stunt making around $100k, which is clearly overpaying, but there is no way in hell Nyla fucking Rose is making $2m a year. You KNOW better lol


----------



## Prosper

That contract article is obviously fake. No way Moxley is making double what Jericho is making and Nyla Rose is not making $2 million. Its not like she was some major female star in WWE or Japan, she was an unknown. Brandi is Chief Branding Officer but I doubt she's even making $2 mil with that role.


----------



## 3venflow

Nyla was working for WOW and Sendai Girls before AEW. If she's making $2m a year, my name is Jesus.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Chip Chipperson said:


> Oh no, I never said I don't know what he's paying ANYONE.
> 
> Here is a list of the top 10 highest paid wrestlers in AEW:
> 
> 
> *The 10 Highest Paid AEW Wrestlers*
> 
> 
> *Wrestler**Earnings*1. Dean Ambrose$6 Million2. Chris Jericho$3 Million3. Kenny Omega$3 Million4. Cody Rhodes$3 Million5. Brandi Rhodes$2 Million6. Dustin Rhodes$2 Million7. Nyla Rose$2 Million8. Lucha Bros$2 Million9. Young Bucks$2 Million10. PAC$2 Million
> 
> Source: AEW Salary: Highest Paid AEW Wrestlers, Lowest Paid AEW Wrestler, Richest AEW Wrestler –
> 
> ---
> 
> If Nyla Rose is making 2 million dollars a year do you really think Christian isn't making half that? Do you think Christian who is a much bigger name than PAC isn't getting at least half his salary? Christian who is bigger name and better in the ring than Dustin isn't getting AT LEAST half of his salary?
> 
> Hell, this website reports that the average AEW salary is 300k a year, don't you think that's a little much for the majority of their roster? You don't think Christian would get triple or quadruple what the average AEW roster member gets?


 might as well add "source: trust me bro" at the end of the article. 

The only people who will know said salaries will be:
-Tony Khan
-Wrestler
-Lawyers


----------



## zkorejo

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1424748001831104512


----------



## 3venflow

So close now. But he doesn't mention Challenge, that could impact AEW's own 18-49 rating when it's back on.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1425211505478406148


----------



## DaSlacker

Prosper said:


> That contract article is obviously fake. No way Moxley is making double what Jericho is making and Nyla Rose is not making $2 million. Its not like she was some major female star in WWE or Japan, she was an unknown. Brandi is Chief Branding Officer but I doubt she's even making $2 mil with that role.


Put it this way. 

Nyla Rose worked about 25-30 dates for AEW in 2020. 2 million salary would equate to 75,000 dollars per match. 

The former Braun Strowman - a guy who won the world title at a recent WrestleMania, has 500,000+ followers and has been all over TV for 6 years - is charging 20,000 dollars per day.

I don't think Chip thought this through. 

The Khans are wealthy. People don't become successful in business or super rich by being frivolous with money and market forces.


----------



## bdon

DaSlacker said:


> I don't think Chip thought this through.


@Chip Chipperson , be the bigger man and admit how ludicrous your sourced info was.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I for one believe Chip

Nyla with that sweet Brock / Punk deal

money all day


----------



## 3venflow

11,000 tickets now sold for the 9/15 Newark show. This is a week before the Arthur Ashe show, so they will have back to back 10k+ attendances for Dynamite.


----------



## bdon

How many tickets sold for tonight?


----------



## Prized Fighter

bdon said:


> How many tickets sold for tonight?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1423001182956658700


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Prized Fighter said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1423001182956658700


that’s a bit disappointing

any info on rampage seats friday?


----------



## 3venflow

That info above is from August 4 though and they're also running Rampage in the same building on Friday. They added more seats today so I imagine tickets have been moving fairly well. There should be a final count later.


----------



## Prized Fighter

LifeInCattleClass said:


> that’s a bit disappointing
> 
> any info on rampage seats friday?


_Deleted_ @3venflow said the same thing.


----------



## yeahright2

Shameless plug for the ratings game.. It´s tonight folks!
AEW Ratings prediction game


----------



## 3venflow

Here's that update. +500 tickets sold since the previous one.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1425578455236812804


----------



## Martyn

It's a bit awkward that the two sections in front of cameras are completely empty.


----------



## omaroo

Not a complete sellout but decent crowd looks like.


----------



## taker_2004

Martyn said:


> It's a bit awkward that the two sections in front of cameras are completely empty.


I think, and I could be wrong, but people are smart and buy tickets above that section because they know they'll be moved by staff to fill up the space in front of the main camera.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> Shameless plug for the ratings game.. It´s tonight folks!
> AEW Ratings prediction game


ahhhhh - i forgot 

oh well - prediction just for me - 1.15


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ahhhhh - i forgot
> 
> oh well - prediction just for me - 1.15


Would suck if you are correct


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> Would suck if you are correct


i’ll be like Hangman - i’ll deserve to be champion… but the system works against me


----------



## 3venflow

Apparently, The Challenge was back on last night? I think that could eat into AEW's rating a little as it did last season.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Rampage prediction?

900k for episode 1


----------



## zkorejo

3venflow said:


> Apparently, The Challenge was back on last night? I think that could eat into AEW's rating a little as it did last season.


That's sucks! Female audience will drop.


----------



## Prized Fighter

I know some people have been nervous about COVID mandates restricting upcoming shows, but I have some good news. The Lollapalooza festival in Chicago from a couple weeks ago (385,000 people attended) only had 203 confirmed cases with zero hospitalizations/deaths. This event did require proof of vaccine or a negative test, but with that many people it is unlikely they checked them all.

This is an outdoor event, but it is a great sign.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Martyn said:


> It's a bit awkward that the two sections in front of cameras are completely empty.


Event staff will just move the audience into better seats so it doesn't look bad on TV.


----------



## 3venflow

Rating is in:

979,000
0.35 in the 18-49

Challenge definitely ate into the rating a bit, it looks like.

Lowest rating since July 7.


----------



## Martyn

The number for next week will be interesting with the buzz of Rampage and also a much better card. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1425916642459103234


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

That is a shame

next week + how rampage kees the number will be interesting


----------



## ripcitydisciple

3venflow said:


> Rating is in:
> 
> 979,000
> 0.35 in the 18-49
> 
> Challenge definitely ate into the rating a bit, it looks like.
> 
> Lowest rating since July 7.


And we all know who to blame too don't we? The one who made a thread celebrating AEW being over 1 million 4 weeks in a row.

Shame. Shame.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

AEW going out of business confirmed 😜


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ripcitydisciple said:


> And we all know who to blame too don't we? The one who made a thread celebrating AEW being over 1 million 4 weeks in a row.
> 
> Shame. Shame.


yeah, thanks @$Dolladrew$


----------



## $Dolladrew$

ripcitydisciple said:


> And we all know who to blame too don't we? The one who made a thread celebrating AEW being over 1 million 4 weeks in a row.
> 
> Shame. Shame.


I'd wager next week returns to 1 million lol

Still not bad at all the card wasnt great either.


----------



## Erik.

Darn.

Pack it in boys, Vince has done it again.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yeah, thanks @$Dolladrew$


I was right it was a record 4 weeks lol let's see em beat it!!!


----------



## Geeee

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Rampage prediction?
> 
> 900k for episode 1


Rampage is on very late, so I think it will be around 600k


----------



## RogueSlayer

Expected number tbh Wasn't that exciting of card if they don't get over a million with next week's card then that's a failure


----------



## Dark Emperor

Geeee said:


> Rampage is on very late, so I think it will be around 600k


Nah debuts always get a high rating. Then most shows never touch that number again. For example Dynamite with the initial 1.4m.

So they will get 900k or so. But your 600k prediction will be the average going forward.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Not a surprise. The last two shows have just been full of predictable matches with nothing really happening.


----------



## rich110991

Disappointing 😞

What the fuck is Challenge and can it please go away?


----------



## rbl85

It was expected, only the Jericho match was important or interesting, this week and next week are more about rampage than dynamite.
Next week have a much better card tho


----------



## 3venflow

As expected:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1425923961108500483


----------



## Dark Emperor

rich110991 said:


> Disappointing 😞
> 
> What the fuck is Challenge and can it please go away?


Come on, Raw is on during Monday Night Football. Let's not do the excuses thing.

But 250k loss is quite a massive chunk of AEW audience. Challenge can't be that exciting, can it? The overall viewership for that show is never that big to justify that as the reason.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Dark Emperor said:


> Come on, Raw is on during Monday Night Football. Let's not do the excuses thing.
> 
> But 250k loss is quite a massive chunk of AEW audience. Challenge can't be that exciting, can it? The overall viewership for that show is never that big to justify that as the reason.



You can only sit through what are essentially dark matches with guys like Wheeler Yuta and whoever that was Darby faced before people get bored. I know I was bored. Even the pro AEW twitter mob was bored from what I saw last night.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Disappointing. Some of the people who were planning to start watching for Bryan and Punk were likely watching last week's show just to get sense of the lay of the land, and AEW chose to present them the card that they did; with a roster as stacked as this, they simply can't be doing that.


----------



## rich110991

Dark Emperor said:


> Come on, *Raw is on during Monday Night Football. Let's not do the excuses thing.*
> 
> But 250k loss is quite a massive chunk of AEW audience. Challenge can't be that exciting, can it? The overall viewership for that show is never that big to justify that as the reason.


Not yet it’s not, is it?

I’ve seen a lot of people saying Challenge will have an impact on the ratings, I don’t live in America, I don’t know??


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> You can only sit through what are essentially dark matches with guys like Wheeler Yuta and whoever that was Darby faced before people get bored. I know I was bored. Even the pro AEW twitter mob was bored from what I saw last night.


Also they kind of insinuated that the most important show of the week was rampage


----------



## rbl85

You can also say that doing close to a million with a card like that is pretty good.
A weak card without stake is doibg the same rating than a big card after a PPV a year ago


----------



## yeahright2

Ratings are in.. Not that impressive if I have to be honest. Not terrible, but not impressive either.. I´m beginning to see a pattern here.

AEW Ratings prediction game
@RapShepard beat me by just 2K viewers..Dammit!

I know Rampage is coming up, but that´s no excuse for putting on a subpar episode with what could be Dark matches.


----------



## Mister Sinister

That show last night was dryer than a no spit handjob. They are lucky that so many stuck through it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Geeee said:


> Rampage is on very late, so I think it will be around 600k


i’m thinking first show will see most of the faithful tune in


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i’m thinking first show will see most of the faithful tune in


I think rampage next week is going to do a better ratings than this week


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i’m thinking first show will see most of the faithful tune in


Not only the most faithful.. I´m guessing a few people (myself included) will want to see what the fuzz is all about. But unless it´s really great, I don´t plan on sticking around.. There´s only so many hours in a week.


----------



## DammitChrist

Dark Emperor said:


> Come on, Raw is on during Monday Night Football. Let's not do the excuses thing.
> 
> But 250k loss is quite a massive chunk of AEW audience. Challenge can't be that exciting, can it? The overall viewership for that show is never that big to justify that as the reason.


It's not even an "excuse." It's a legitimate reason. 

You don't have to like the valid explanation for this week.


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> Also they kind of insinuated that the most important show of the week was rampage


I know they book certain "filler" Dynamites like this to avoid 50/50 stuff and to pad stars records, but there has to be some balance between that and every single match on the card being extremely predictable. Every match where the guy you know isn't going over getting a bunch of 2 counts while the commentators scream about an upset that never happens gets old.


----------



## Randy Lahey

That


3venflow said:


> Rating is in:
> 
> 979,000
> 0.35 in the 18-49
> 
> Challenge definitely ate into the rating a bit, it looks like.
> 
> Lowest rating since July 7.


0.35 sucks. They were 0.46 last week. That's a drop of almost 25% in the rating.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> I know they book certain "filler" Dynamites like this to avoid 50/50 stuff and to pad stars records, but there has to be some balance between that and every single match on the card being extremely predictable. Every match where the guy you know isn't going over getting a bunch of 2 counts while the commentators scream about an upset that never happens gets old.


I think this week it's understandable because is the first episode of rampage.
Also next week dynamite looks way better than this week.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> Not only the most faithful.. I´m guessing a few people (myself included) will want to see what the fuzz is all about. But unless it´s really great, I don´t plan on sticking around.. There´s only so many hours in a week.


it’ll only be great for you if they heavilt feature chris daniels and dustin in mat wrestling classics


----------



## rbl85

Randy Lahey said:


> That
> 
> 
> 0.35 sucks. They were 0.46 last week. That's a drop of almost 25% in the rating.


Not surprising with the season "opener" of challenge who does really well with the young audience.


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it’ll only be great for you if they heavilt feature chris daniels and dustin in mat wrestling classics


Yep. And some Christian Cage (without Omega).. Maybe even some Matt Hardy 

Don´t get me wrong though - I have nothing against a "flippy" match once in a while, but there has to be a meaning behind the flips, and they need to sell the moves. What I don´t like is the gymnastic routines where it´s all about the "Movez and Spots", or the garbage matches Moxley always does.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> Yep. And some Christian Cage (without Omega).. Maybe even some Matt Hardy
> 
> Don´t get me wrong though - I have nothing against a "flippy" match once in a while, but there has to be a meaning behind the flips, and they need to sell the moves. What I don´t like is the gymnastic routines where it´s all about the "Movez and Spots", or the garbage matches Moxley always does.


what did you think of match 1 last night?


----------



## RapShepard

Look AEW is fine in ratings. 

It's not as bad as the "these flippy midgets with no character are killing wrestling" crowd wants to believe. 

It's not as good as the "AEW is on the rise and renewing fans love of wrestling" crowd want to believe.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Look AEW is fine in ratings.
> 
> It's not as bad as the "these flippy midgets with no character are killing wrestling" crowd wants to believe.
> 
> It's not as good as the "AEW is on the rise and renewing fans love of wrestling" crowd want to believe.


it just ‘is’ - and that is good enough

agreed


----------



## Mr316

RainmakerV2 said:


> I know they book certain "filler" Dynamites like this to avoid 50/50 stuff and to pad stars records, but there has to be some balance between that and every single match on the card being extremely predictable. Every match where the guy you know isn't going over getting a bunch of 2 counts while the commentators scream about an upset that never happens gets old.


100% agree with this.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Mr316 said:


> 100% agree with this.



Or if you do have a card full of matches like these, let the upset happen once in a while. Would it have killed for Dante Martin to pin one of the bucks last night? I mean would it? The Bucks could just beat him back. Or fuckin have DO steal one from the Good Brothers, I mean it's the impact titles who gives a fuck. There has to be a reason to watch. Give the people a little doubt in their mind that the underdog can actually win one of these.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Below a million, but not a terrible number. It was a weak card, and nothing before the main event really demanded attention. Still, close enough to a million where I think it's still a pretty good number for AEW. As long as they do not continue into 800k territory and below, or get a number like this week's with a stacked card, then I think it's all good.


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> what did you think of match 1 last night?


Didn´t like it that much, mostly because who was in it. Since I watch DESPITE the Bucks and Omega, anything they do have little to no interest for me. Their goofiness takes me completely out of the match or segment, and I don´t see them as the best in the world either in singles or tag team competition.
If you had put the Death Triangle in there and had more or less the same match, I´d have liked it better 

But I do like Matt Sydal (I´m probably the only one here who does), and Dante gave it his all.. That kid has potential.


----------



## KrysRaw1

And there you have it. A result of weeks of lazy booking with matches that don't have good stories and just a bunch of job guys to a card will get you less ratings. This was a layover reflection of last week and I predict next week they'll even be lower because they are continuing a trend of jobber matches and that's what they deserve quite frankly if they're not going to put on good matches that are competitive they're going to get lower ratings


----------



## DammitChrist

yeahright2 said:


> Didn´t like it that much, mostly because who was in it. Since I watch DESPITE the *Bucks and Omega, anything they do have little to no interest for me. Their goofiness takes me completely out of the match or segment, and I don´t see them as the best in the world either in singles or tag team competition.*
> If you had put the Death Triangle in there and had more or less the same match, I´d have liked it better
> 
> But I do like Matt Sydal (I´m probably the only one here who does), and Dante gave it his all.. That kid has potential.


Pfft, those guys are a fun highlight to watch on the show, and they *are *legitimately the best wrestlers in their respective divisions


----------



## Geert Wilders

It is a deserved rating, but will mean nothing in the next few weeks.


----------



## yeahright2

DammitChrist said:


> Pfft, those guys are a fun highlight to watch on the show, and they *are *legitimately the best wrestlers in their respective divisions


Nope. They´re not. You like them, fine, you´re allowed to do so.. I just prefer real wrestlers  

But they´re not the best just because you say so, or because Meltzers fanboy brigade votes for them.
I´m not a huge fan of FTR, but I´ll argue they´re probably the best tag team (at least on a major network) in the world right now.

.. Anyway, we´re drifting a little here.. It´s the ratings thread, not the "who is the best wrestler in the world", and I don´t feel like debating for days about this.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it just ‘is’ - and that is good enough
> 
> agreed


It's a solid wrestling show with a solid fan base. What more can you reasonably ask for.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

RapShepard said:


> It's a solid wrestling show with a solid fan base. What more can you reasonably ask for.


Agreed the base is pretty loyal and once the rumored acquisitions debut it will pop the ratings again but it's up to AEW to fully capitalize on the momentum no letting off the gas.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> It's a solid wrestling show with a solid fan base. What more can you reasonably ask for.


you mean its ok if a wrestling show is not the artistic and rating zeitgeist of the modern era??


----------



## bdon

AEW stopped trying again. Cocksuckers.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

No Hangman, No Moxley. Just an OK show. Opener was fun and the crowd was hot. 

I was hoping to see them at a Mil and .40 demo but it wasn't that far off 21,000 away from a Mil.


----------



## .christopher.

bdon said:


> AEW stopped trying again. Cocksuckers.


It feels like whenever they get momentum - like back when Sting made his debut and Omega won the title - they seem to think they can rest on their laurels instead of trying to keep that momentum going.

If Punk and Bryan do make a somewhat difference in viewership with all the buzz, I hope they don't keep that same mindset. They'll bring viewers in, but you need a consistently good show to keep them.


----------



## bdon

.christopher. said:


> It feels like whenever they get momentum - like back when Sting made his debut and Omega won the title - they seem to think they can rest on their laurels instead of trying to keep that momentum going.
> 
> If Punk and Bryan do make a somewhat difference in viewership with all the buzz, I hope they don't keep that same mindset. They'll bring viewers in, but you need a consistently good show to keep them.


Bingo.

You can’t pop a rating and totally let your foot off the hook. Look at those shows after Sting’s debut and the last 2. You can put meaningful segments on TV and sprinkle the new faces in between.


----------



## Randy Lahey

CMPunkRock316 said:


> No Hangman, No Moxley. Just an OK show. Opener was fun and the crowd was hot.
> 
> I was hoping to see them at a Mil and .40 demo but it wasn't that far off 21,000 away from a Mil.


Yeah I definitely think Omega vs Hangman is a much bigger TV rating feud, than Omega vs Christian. Christian is a boring wrestler, and there's no heat in his matches. I think it carries over to the demo.

And nobody wants to see QT, Big Show, or Nyla Rose.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Disappointing to see it go down, but they've taken their foot off the pedal a bit, can't afford to do that when you have momentum.


----------



## zorori

That's what happens when you coast... They put the bigger matches on Rampage, which really diluted Dynamite this week. Feels a bit like the Friday nights run... just going through the motions.


----------



## Chan Hung

Not too surprising. The show was not a stacked card, even the die hards admitted that. The issue is for me, why coast it when you have less than one month for a big show. It kind of almost seems a bit cocky for them to do that.


----------



## 3venflow

Rampage has sold more tickets than Dynamite the other night. Looks like the hype worked. Over 10,000 tickets sold across the two shows.

They're almost at 14,000 sold for Rampage #2 next week in Chicago too.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1425987041112870919


----------



## NXT Only

20K average off a million is really good.


----------



## thorn123

The drop was due to a poor show last week and a non stacked card this week. But this weeks show was great. Some new faces, good story enhancement, a surprise and unreal matches. Its a shame more didn't tune in. But it is true - big names mean more to ratings than quality programming ... though I feel there is a general shift from that happening in the tv environment.


----------



## thorn123

Chan Hung said:


> Not too surprising. The show was not a stacked card, even the die hards admitted that. The issue is for me, why coast it when you have less than one month for a big show. It kind of almost seems a bit cocky for them to do that.


I truly believe they don't want to oversaturate. The same faces over and over becomes boring and they want to create new must see faces. Having said that it is a very fine balance, and maybe they tipped over with lack of star power recently.


----------



## Wolf Mark

RainmakerV2 said:


> I know they book certain "filler" Dynamites like this to avoid 50/50 stuff and to pad stars records, but there has to be some balance between that and every single match on the card being extremely predictable. Every match where the guy you know isn't going over getting a bunch of 2 counts while the commentators scream about an upset that never happens gets old.


That happens too often on Dynamite. Matches have no suspense cause we know who's going to win.


----------



## 3venflow

Hour two averaged over a million. What was the lead-in to Dynamite as it started on the low side.


----------



## taker_2004

3venflow said:


> Hour two averaged over a million. What was the lead-in to Dynamite as it started on the low side.


The movie Tag (100 min) where tag is the most popular sport in the world....


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Jericho stuff drawing very well. This Jericho/MJF angle has people invested, which is a good sign.

6-man tag opener having a weak start for the show viewer wise doesn't surprise me. I'm guessing the segment afterwards really picked up viewers. Maybe some interest in Christian/Omega after all?

Darby match with jobber guy lost viewers, but quarter after with OC 6-man tag pulled viewers up well. Good thing at this point is viewership basically kept increasing and was basically hovering just under a million or more for last three quarters of show. Baker's segment, and Jericho/Wardlow seemingly being the big draws of the night. Quarter 2 did have the biggest gain though so it's worth mentioning that again, I think people are actually interested in Christian getting a title shot. I don't personally understand it myself, but more power to them. 

Looking forward to seeing how Rampage does.


----------



## DammitChrist

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Jericho stuff drawing very well. This Jericho/MJF angle has people invested, which is a good sign.
> 
> 6-man tag opener having a weak start for the show viewer wise doesn't surprise me. I'm guessing the segment afterwards really picked up viewers. Maybe some interest in Christian/Omega after all?
> 
> Darby match with jobber guy lost viewers, but quarter after with OC 6-man tag pulled viewers up well. Good thing at this point is viewership basically kept increasing and was basically hovering just under a million or more for last three quarters of show. Baker's segment, and Jericho/Wardlow seemingly being the big draws of the night. Quarter 2 did have the biggest gain though so it's worth mentioning that again, I think people are actually interested in Christian getting a title shot. I don't personally understand it myself, but more power to them.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing how Rampage does.


I’d say that it’s partially due to a big number of Christian Cage fans (along with Kenny Omega fans) who are really down to see both men faces each other in a world title match soon since this match-up didn’t even seem possible just a year ago.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Something about those ratings is way off. When's the last time the opening segment was the lowest rated of the entire show? I doubt that has ever happened.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*No big deal, the hype is all around Rampage. The premiere show should do at least 800 k with all the big matches and CM Punk rumors. I'm expecting a million in spite of the time slot though.*


----------



## bdon

Randy Lahey said:


> Something about those ratings is way off. When's the last time the opening segment was the lowest rated of the entire show? I doubt that has ever happened.


Sydal Brothers and Dante Martin being heavily featured to start kind of killed the mood. I was in the arena, and it wasn’t until Dante Martin went wild that the show picked up. Omega and The Bucks really went way out of their way to put the other guys over…


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> 6-man tag opener having a weak start for the show viewer wise doesn't surprise me.


*I feel like the only time we ever agree is when it comes to ratings for this show, lol.*


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

Elite does not draw. Keep Bucks and Omega away from the start of the show.


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *I feel like the only time we ever agree is when it comes to ratings for this show, lol.*


And yet they grew the audience on their Quarter Hours more than any other performers. Hmmmm…


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

bdon said:


> And yet they grew the audience on their Quarter Hours more than any other performers. Hmmmm…


*That's a straight up lie. Britt and Darby are the only consistent draws no matter what they're doing. Darby just dropped for the first time I can even remember. Like I told you multiple times this month, no one gives a f*** about the shitty Elite tag matches. Hangman was carrying Kenny this whole time and you constantly find out the hard way that you're wrong.*


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *That's a straight up lie. Britt and Darby are the only consistent draws no matter what they're doing. Darby just dropped for the first time I can even remember. Like I told you multiple times this month, no one gives a f*** about the shitty Elite tag matches. Hangman was carrying Kenny this whole time and you constantly find out the hard way that you're wrong.*


They drew 74k more fans from Quarter 1 to Quarter 2. The next closest was Britt Baker growing her quarter hour by 51k.

You really don’t understand this shit, do you?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

bdon said:


> They drew 74k more fans from Quarter 1 to Quarter 2. The next closest was Britt Baker growing her quarter hour by 51k.
> 
> You really don’t understand this shit, do you?


*No, not they, yet another number 1 contendership announcement after their repetitive, obnoxiously long match that lost viewers yet again to get closure on the Hangman situation. *


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *No, not they, yet another number 1 contendership announcement after their repetitive, obnoxiously long match that lost viewers yet again to get closure on the Hangman situation. *


How’d it lose viewers when they clearly gained 74k fucking viewers!? Are you fucking high?

But let’s go with your argument about a new number 1 contender causing the gain: what’s the one constant again, kid?


----------



## bdon

Please respond quickly, so you can get the last word. I refuse to waste my time with anyone who refuses to have an intellectually honest discussion.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> They drew 74k more fans from Quarter 1 to Quarter 2. The next closest was Britt Baker growing her quarter hour by 51k.
> 
> You really don’t understand this shit, do you?


The closest was the main event with 60k


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

bdon said:


> How’d it lose viewers when they clearly gained 74k fucking viewers!? Are you fucking high?
> 
> But let’s go with your argument about a new number 1 contender causing the gain: what’s the one constant again, kid?


*Can you read? Everyone is talking about the tag match losing viewers. You're deflecting by pointing at the number one contender announcement as if there weren't questions surrounding Hangman's disappearance. The backlash Christian received should tell you all you need to know, but you continue to remain in denial about a woman consistently outdrawing your fave that's holding the world title.*


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *Can you read? Everyone is talking about the tag match losing viewers. You're deflecting by pointing at the number one contender announcement as if there weren't questions surrounding Hangman's disappearance. The backlash Christian received should tell you all you need to know, but you continue to remain in denial about a woman consistently outdrawing your fave that's holding the world title.*


Show me what the final quarter hour of the movie “Tag” was Wednesday prior to Dynamite, because THAT is the only way to say they lost viewers. Do you not realize that? Goddamn, you’re one dense, SOB.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

bdon said:


> Show me what the final quarter hour of the movie “Tag” was Wednesday prior to Dynamite, because THAT is the only way to say they lost viewers. Do you not realize that? Goddamn, you’re one dense, SOB.



*And we're done here since you decided to resort to flaming because you're wrong every single week. Bye.*


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> The closest was the main event with 60k


You’re right. I overlooked that.

So, Kenny and the Bucks were still the largest quarter hour growth in audience. Hmmm…


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *And we're done here since you decided to resort to flaming because you're wrong every single week. Bye.*


We were done the minute you refused to have an intellectually honest discussion and refused to admit the numbers showed they were part of the largest quarter hour growth.

Kid.


----------



## CM Buck

Okay gentlemen break it up


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Haha. Tell em' Bdon.


----------



## bdon

With tonight’s shit booking decision, it’s time go heel again. Lmao


----------



## Wolf Mark

The Legit DMD said:


> *That's a straight up lie. Britt and Darby are the only consistent draws no matter what they're doing. Darby just dropped for the first time I can even remember. Like I told you multiple times this month, no one gives a f*** about the shitty Elite tag matches. Hangman was carrying Kenny this whole time and you constantly find out the hard way that you're wrong.*


FACTS 😎


----------



## bdon

Wolf Mark said:


> FACTS 😎


Except the Elite 100% grew their quarter hour more than any other quarter.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *And we're done here since you decided to resort to flaming because you're wrong every single week. Bye.*


Except that he IS right about the opening tag match GAINING viewers as the contest progressed further. Just accept that you lost this argument, dude 

For the record, tonight's Rampage crowd was clearly cheering on Christian Cage, and they were in the same city too.


----------



## Not Lying

3venflow said:


> Hour two averaged over a million. What was the lead-in to Dynamite as it started on the low side.
> 
> View attachment 106280


If you don't have the minutes breakdown then what we can conclude:

Weak opening, unusual but happens, and of course these bafoons wanted to milk it.
Q2 was solid with Dante's performance and #1 contender follow up.
Q3 is actually pretty good because Darby was facing jobber and the Q had Rhodes vignettes (commericials too). 
Q4 with Sting getting involved and then Matt/OC was good enough for interests to increase.

DMD and Y2J doing good numbers again. See this is the type of bump I wana see for the main event, a noticeable rise which I see Darby or Mox or Y2J is in that hour, but Omega and CERTAINLY not Bucks.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Did Rampage really sell out?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

NathanMayberry said:


> Did Rampage really sell out?
> 
> View attachment 106314


Most promoters lie about sell outs. Sell out you can generally take to mean "Most tickets sold"


----------



## Martyn

WrestleTix reported it wasnt a sellout, but it outdrew Dynamite. Who said it was a sellout?


----------



## 3venflow

88% of tickets were distributed. No one claimed it was a sell out, just that it drew more than Dynamite days before and did 10k+ over the two nights.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426364211706355717


----------



## Dark Emperor

Smackdown just got a 2.5m overnight rating. Almost 400k increase on prior week due to Cena. This likely goes up 200k to 2.6m with final numbers. Excluding Xmas special, will be highest rated wrestling show since 2019.

So AEW Rampage had a perfect lead in and should easily get 1m+.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dark Emperor said:


> Smackdown just got a 2.5m overnight rating. Almost 400k increase on prior week due to Cena. This likely goes up 200k to 2.6m with final numbers. Excluding Xmas special, will be highest rated wrestling show since 2019.
> 
> So AEW Rampage had a perfect lead in and should easily get 1m+.


a lead-in is generally a program from the same channel


----------



## Dark Emperor

LifeInCattleClass said:


> a lead-in is generally a program from the same channel


Yes I know but the wrestling fans were already watching TV so it bodes well compared to if Smackdown had a poor rating like under 2m


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dark Emperor said:


> Yes I know but the wrestling fans were already watching TV so it bodes well compared to if Smackdown had a poor rating like under 2m


i hope so

if their prior friday nights are anything to go by, this’ll be 600k ish

i’m hoping 800k because its a debut


----------



## Dark Emperor

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i hope so
> 
> if their prior friday nights are anything to go by, this’ll be 600k ish
> 
> i’k hoping 800k because its a debut


Debuts are always big numbers. It won’t do 600k, those were throw away episodes. The first two weeks will be close to 1m. Next week higher due to Punk, before it starts to drop.


----------



## fabi1982

Dark Emperor said:


> Smackdown just got a 2.5m overnight rating. Almost 400k increase on prior week due to Cena. This likely goes up 200k to 2.6m with final numbers. Excluding Xmas special, will be highest rated wrestling show since 2019.
> 
> So AEW Rampage had a perfect lead in and should easily get 1m+.


But didnt Dynamite get 600k on the same spot? Or was that not Friday at 10pm? But yeah Rampage should profit from this great SD rating!!


----------



## DammitChrist

I’m not really sure though. I still feel like they’re getting around 600 K viewers due to the shitty time slot.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> But didnt Dynamite get 600k on the same spot? Or was that not Friday at 10pm? But yeah Rampage should profit from this great SD rating!!


yah - Dynamite was at 10 in a friday


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Their highest Friday number was 550k? Considering they had three title matches and it's the debut show, I'm thinking they get somewhere in the 700k-900k neighborhood.


----------



## shandcraig

If numbers don't hold up because of the time slot they should try to move it to Saturdays at 4 western time. That way its more of a weekend feel and early so people can bang it out then carry on with plenty of time for their Saturdays life. Plus if it's at 4 that's leading into ppvs which could benefit both events.


----------



## rich110991

When are the numbers out?


----------



## fabi1982

I guess Monday for cable.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> I guess Monday for cable.


did you watch rampage mate?

enjoy it or disappointed?


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> did you watch rampage mate?
> 
> enjoy it or disappointed?


Watched the highlights, not sure what to think. Dont get the fuego hype. Britt winning is always great to see, sad got the blonde girls reaction from the fans. Christian getting the Kenny rub is just…i dont know…ask bdon


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Watched the highlights, not sure what to think. Dont get the fuego hype. Britt winning is always great to see, sad got the blonde girls reaction from the fans. Christian getting the Kenny rub is just…i dont know…ask bdon


lollll…. Think i’ve seen bdon’s opinion about it enough


----------



## bdon

fabi1982 said:


> Watched the highlights, not sure what to think. Dont get the fuego hype. Britt winning is always great to see, sad got the blonde girls reaction from the fans. *Christian getting the Kenny rub is just…i dont know…ask bdon *


It’s fucking stupid. That’s what it is. One of the worst decisions I have ever seen in my time watching wrestling.


----------



## rbl85

rich110991 said:


> When are the numbers out?


Monday i think


----------



## iarwain

bdon said:


> It’s fucking stupid. That’s what it is. One of the worst decisions I have ever seen in my time watching wrestling.


They about had to do it, if they wanted people to see Christian as a credible threat to Omega's AEW belt in their upcoming match. Plus it gives a nice moment for the Rampage debut. Christian is a worthy champion, especially considering his history in TNA. I think it was fine.


----------



## bdon

iarwain said:


> They about had to do it, if they wanted people to see Christian as a credible threat to Omega's AEW belt in their upcoming match. Plus it gives a nice moment for the Rampage debut. Christian is a worthy champion, especially considering his history in TNA. I think it was fine.


That’s why you don’t book Christian as the opponent for All Out. You certainly don’t book someone for a PPV if the only way to make him look like a credible threat is to have him go over your 712 day undefeated World Champion.

This company continues to fail to understand how to book champions.


----------



## DaSlacker

bdon said:


> It’s fucking stupid. That’s what it is. One of the worst decisions I have ever seen in my time watching wrestling.


It's a in his twilight years babyface getting a cheap win/poetic justice over a heel, for a title that ceased to mean anything major about a decade ago. Nothing to get mad about.


----------



## La Parka

10pm on Friday won’t get a million.

I’d say maybe 800k would be a very good number for AEW


----------



## bdon

DaSlacker said:


> It's a in his twilight years babyface getting a cheap win/poetic justice over a heel, for a title that ceased to mean anything major about a decade ago. Nothing to get mad about.


I don’t care that he won. Just don’t do that finish before YOUR next in line guy is able to be the one to deliver that L. Has nothing to do with the Impact title and everything to do with the wasted rub of Omega finally losing after 712 days.


----------



## 3venflow

Some ticket movement for next Wednesday's show. I think they'll get past 4,000 for this.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426709670685708289


----------



## Martyn

Anything above 900k would be a very good number. It's a dead slot though and they might hit it only during the first few episodes of the show. 7pm or even going head to head with one hour of SmackDown would bring better results.


----------



## thorn123

That was such a good episode. An hour wrestling show, with ppv quality matches, a rampant crowd, a few surprises … deserves a million. Will probably get 500k.


----------



## zkorejo

700k is what Meltzer is guessing. He has seen some demos (not all).


----------



## Dark Emperor

zkorejo said:


> 700k is what Meltzer is guessing. He has seen some demos (not all).


His guesses are always wrong. I don't know why he can't wait for AEW rating like everyone else and has to make predictions based on early trends which has never been accurate in the past.


----------



## PavelGaborik

Really good show. 

I'm guessing 600k, it's a terrible slot for a lot of or people, including myself..


----------



## omaroo

Punk or not Rampage on Fridays at that timeslot just cant do decent ratings.

Honestly wonder how long they will be stuck in that position.


----------



## 3venflow

From WrestleTix Patreon:

AEW Rampage: The First Dance
Fri • Aug 20 • 7:00 PM
United Center, Chicago, IL

Available Tickets => 69 (-89)
Estimated Capacity => 14,212
Tickets Distributed => 14,143 (99%)

Not sure what the possibilities are for opening more seats, but I assume AEW will do so if it's possible, even with a number of scalper tickets on the market, since those are already sold.

On the topic of scalper tickets, they are starting to move quite fast now. Way less than there were days ago (3.5k to 2.2k).


----------



## zkorejo

Dark Emperor said:


> His guesses are always wrong. I don't know why he can't wait for AEW rating like everyone else and has to make predictions based on early trends which has never been accurate in the past.


I see I didn't know that.


----------



## fabi1982

3venflow said:


> From WrestleTix Patreon:
> 
> AEW Rampage: The First Dance
> Fri • Aug 20 • 7:00 PM
> United Center, Chicago, IL
> 
> Available Tickets => 69 (-89)
> Estimated Capacity => 14,212
> Tickets Distributed => 14,143 (99%)
> 
> Not sure what the possibilities are for opening more seats, but I assume AEW will do so if it's possible, even with a number of scalper tickets on the market, since those are already sold.
> 
> On the topic of scalper tickets, they are starting to move quite fast now. Way less than there were days ago (3.5k to 2.2k).
> 
> View attachment 106405


Im pretty sure that wrestletix dont want their paid content available for free on the internet?! Just because you pay for it doesnt mean you can share it…


----------



## rbl85

fabi1982 said:


> Im pretty sure that wrestletix dont want their paid content available for free on the internet?! Just because you pay for it doesnt mean you can share it…


I pretty sure they also posted this on their Twitter account


----------



## EMGESP

Any guesses to the ratings for the Dynamite after Punk debuts at the United Center at Rampage? I'm going with 1.5 million.


----------



## 3venflow

fabi1982 said:


> Im pretty sure that wrestletix dont want their paid content available for free on the internet?! Just because you pay for it doesnt mean you can share it…


They literally posted it on Twitter minutes after I posted it on here. They always do with a short delay except for requests. But continue the faux outrage, if you weeeel, rather than staying on-topic.


----------



## omaroo

I'm guessing 18,000 next Friday is gona be tough. 

Over 14,000 will still be a great crowd.


----------



## Erik.

EMGESP said:


> Any guesses to the ratings for the Dynamite after Punk debuts at the United Center at Rampage? I'm going with 1.5 million.


I reckon they could peak at that much. May not be the overall rating as those seeing Punk may just tune in for Punk and then turn over when he's off. Also depends on what he does on Rampage. He could literally come out and say "I'm Back" as a nod to Michael Jordan, drop the mic and walk off.

They peaked at 1.3 with Shaq in March

They peaked at 1.4 with Tyson in April

Whilst Punk obviously isn't as well known as those names - I think wrestling fans are alot more invested and interested in seeing a CM Punk return 7 years on than celebrity spots.


----------



## EMGESP

Erik. said:


> I reckon they could peak at that much. May not be the overall rating as those seeing Punk may just tune in for Punk and then turn over when he's off. Also depends on what he does on Rampage. He could literally come out and say "I'm Back" as a nod to Michael Jordan, drop the mic and walk off.
> 
> They peaked at 1.3 with Shaq in March
> 
> They peaked at 1.4 with Tyson in April
> 
> Whilst Punk obviously isn't as well known as those names - I think wrestling fans are alot more invested and interested in seeing a CM Punk return 7 years on than celebrity spots.


So does CM Punk and Darby just do a stare down to end Rampage and then Tony Khan advertises the two will speak on Dynamite?


----------



## Erik.

EMGESP said:


> So does CM Punk and Darby just do a stare down to end Rampage and then Tony Khan advertises the two will speak on Dynamite?


Not sure how they play it out.

I personally think the smartest thing to do is open the show with Punk. That's the reason these tickets have been sold. Give the fans what they want otherwise we're just going to get "CM PUNK" chants throughout the whole night.


----------



## bdon

EMGESP said:


> So does CM Punk and Darby just do a stare down to end Rampage and then Tony Khan advertises the two will speak on Dynamite?


That would be perfect booking. Leave the audience wanting more always.

Adam West’s Batman series. That is how you book television.


----------



## bdon

Erik. said:


> Not sure how they play it out.
> 
> I personally think the smartest thing to do is open the show with Punk. That's the reason these tickets have been sold. Give the fans what they want otherwise we're just going to get "CM PUNK" chants throughout the whole night.


You’re both right.

Open the show with a car/limo pulling up to the arena, but you absolutely do NOT give away that it IS for sure Punk. Keep the audience guessing.

End with the Punk stare down on Darby or whoever…


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

you have to give Punk a 15 min something to do at the end

you can't blue-ball 20k people

it won't be right

make like a whole thing from it - like Bdon says, show the car pulling in

maybe hands wrapping the X - stuff like that throughout the night

and then end it with a 15min segment


----------



## omaroo

I'm so fucking pumped this week!! 

I'm looking forward to Rampage more than dynamite this week lol. 

Punk was my favourite in the modern era of wrestling. So personally can't wait.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you have to give Punk a 15 min something to do at the end
> 
> you can't blue-ball 20k people
> 
> it won't be right
> 
> make like a whole thing from it - like Bdon says, show the car pulling in
> 
> maybe hands wrapping the X - stuff like that throughout the night
> 
> and then end it with a 15min segment


And this is how EVERY episode should be booked…with a clear, linear progression of 2-3 characters over the course of two hours. This week it’s Punk and Darby’s highlight episode with the Kenny’s, Bucks, Jericho’s, etc acting as supporting characters. The next week you can give more highlight to the Elite drama from start to finish. Then Jericho and MJF. Then Mox and whoever, but you do this while maintaining the great matches to create drama that will emotionally invest the audience to keep its attention between the lulls in match-types or wrestlers that may not be their cup of tea.


----------



## Erik.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you have to give Punk a 15 min something to do at the end
> 
> you can't blue-ball 20k people
> 
> it won't be right
> 
> make like a whole thing from it - like Bdon says, show the car pulling in
> 
> maybe hands wrapping the X - stuff like that throughout the night
> 
> and then end it with a 15min segment


You 100% open with him.

That's when the show likely has the most viewers.

Have him come out at the beginning and then have him promise that's not the last you see of him that night. That way you keep viewers, you also build intrigue but you also don't have the fans ruin potential good matches with numerous CM Punk chants throughout the show.

But it's a double edged sword.

If Punk opens the show then you run the risk of the crowd getting burnt out just by cheering the guy and nothing else will compare to it. The visual of the crowd chanting his name for a solid minute or so and just showing them before we hear his music hit would be fantastic.

If Punk closes the show then you risk people chanting CM Punk until he shows up. This can be avoided if you fill the show up with crowd favorites who the fans like and wouldn’t mind being the reason they wait just a little bit for Punk’s debut. Especially if Darby is in a main event match, then they know once it’s over, Punk is likely coming.

He doesn’t even need to cut a promo. He can just go out there and have a stare down. The reaction alone is worth it and he can cut a promo to the crowd after the show ends and then hype up Punk on a live mic for Dynamite.


----------



## ElTerrible

I´d open with Punk and end his segment with: I heard Darby Allin is wrestling in the main event, so CM Punk will be back to see what the man is all about, who apparently thinks he´s the best in the world. Back from commercial break Punk is backstage and randomly bumps into Sting. Just another small moment in wrestling history.


----------



## Erik.

3venflow said:


> From WrestleTix Patreon:
> 
> AEW Rampage: The First Dance
> Fri • Aug 20 • 7:00 PM
> United Center, Chicago, IL
> 
> Available Tickets => 69 (-89)
> Estimated Capacity => 14,212
> Tickets Distributed => 14,143 (99%)
> 
> Not sure what the possibilities are for opening more seats, but I assume AEW will do so if it's possible, even with a number of scalper tickets on the market, since those are already sold.
> 
> On the topic of scalper tickets, they are starting to move quite fast now. Way less than there were days ago (3.5k to 2.2k).
> 
> View attachment 106405


First dance 14k

All Out 10k

Newark 11k

Grand Slam 18k

What a month we've got in store.


----------



## ProjectGargano

fabi1982 said:


> Im pretty sure that wrestletix dont want their paid content available for free on the internet?! Just because you pay for it doesnt mean you can share it…


This comment is so sad lol


----------



## fabi1982

ProjectGargano said:


> This comment is so sad lol


Whats so sad about it? Please enlighten me 👍


----------



## ProjectGargano

fabi1982 said:


> Whats so sad about it? Please enlighten me 👍


They literally posted that on their twitter account


----------



## fabi1982

ProjectGargano said:


> They literally posted that on their twitter account


I actually didnt see that and usually think of Patreon as a source for content creators to get payment for their efforts and I generally hate it when people give this stuff "to the internet" for free, because "they paid for it", thats not how this works. If they do it themselves then fine, not sure why one pays for that when you get it for free, but who am I to judge.


----------



## Sad Panda

I mean, even outside of Punk. We have the possibilities of Flair, Tanahashi, Jay White, Will Ospreay, Guerillas of Destiny, Bryan fucking Danielson over the next few weeks/months.

The word exciting doesn’t even do this stuff justice, this is an other worldly experience for wrestling fans. This is truly a revolution of epic proportions. The fan attendance and ratings will be a reflection of that.


----------



## Britz94xD

Sad Panda said:


> I mean, even outside of Punk. We have the possibilities of Flair, Tanahashi, Jay White, Will Ospreay, Guerillas of Destiny, Bryan fucking Danielson over the next few weeks/months.
> 
> The word exciting doesn’t even do this stuff justice, this is an other worldly experience for wrestling fans. This is truly a revolution of epic proportions. The fan attendance and ratings will be a reflection of that.


My only concern is they'll bring in all those guys at once. If those people do come to AEW, they should be spread out over the next 12 months or longer. Even Punk and Bryan debuting within a month of each other seems like overkill.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Britz94xD said:


> My only concern is they'll bring in all those guys at once. If those people do come to AEW, they should be spread out over the next 12 months or longer. Even Punk and Bryan debuting within a month of each other seems like overkill.


I agree - they should maximise the impact of new and exciting signings, the best they can. The Tanahashi announcement a few weeks ago felt pretty low key because of the Punk & Bryan rumours, which is pretty mental when you think about it!

Only problem is sometimes it is a 'now or never' opportunity but when that's not the case they should spread them out for max buzz.


----------



## Mr316

Erik. said:


> Not sure how they play it out.
> 
> I personally think the smartest thing to do is open the show with Punk. That's the reason these tickets have been sold. Give the fans what they want otherwise we're just going to get "CM PUNK" chants throughout the whole night.


That would be the dumbest move ever. You need to Punk to close the show for ratings.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Mr316 said:


> That would be the dumbest move ever. You need to Punk to close the show for ratings.


*It's a catch-22 because if you wait too long, the crowd will get antsy and start doubting that he's going to show up. You don't want the other matches getting hijacked.*


----------



## Erik.

Mr316 said:


> That would be the dumbest move ever. You need to Punk to close the show for ratings.


Lol its an hour show you troglodyte. 

Youre going to get the majority of your viewer at the start of a show basically promising Punk. And if Punk opens, you get a monster start. Especially as it'll likely swallow up a quarter of your show as it is. 

Aslong as they put Darby in the main event. Even better.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> You 100% open with him.
> 
> That's when the show likely has the most viewers.
> 
> Have him come out at the beginning and then have him promise that's not the last you see of him that night. That way you keep viewers, you also build intrigue but you also don't have the fans ruin potential good matches with numerous CM Punk chants throughout the show.
> 
> But it's a double edged sword.
> 
> If Punk opens the show then you run the risk of the crowd getting burnt out just by cheering the guy and nothing else will compare to it. The visual of the crowd chanting his name for a solid minute or so and just showing them before we hear his music hit would be fantastic.
> 
> If Punk closes the show then you risk people chanting CM Punk until he shows up. This can be avoided if you fill the show up with crowd favorites who the fans like and wouldn’t mind being the reason they wait just a little bit for Punk’s debut. Especially if Darby is in a main event match, then they know once it’s over, Punk is likely coming.
> 
> He doesn’t even need to cut a promo. He can just go out there and have a stare down. The reaction alone is worth it and he can cut a promo to the crowd after the show ends and then hype up Punk on a live mic for Dynamite.


this is also fair

either / or

I'm sure we can all agree, there is no perfect way to book this

but with the minds involved, not least of which is Punk himself, I hope they knock it out of the park


----------



## Erik.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> this is also fair
> 
> either / or
> 
> I'm sure we can all agree, there is no perfect way to book this
> 
> but with the minds involved, not least of which is Punk himself, I hope they knock it out of the park


They will. 

Everything that's booked on Friday has gone through Punk - infact, the way it all goes down was probably written by him.


----------



## CM Buck

Erik. said:


> They will.
> 
> Everything that's booked on Friday has gone through Punk - infact, the way it all goes down was probably written by him.


Tony has said he writes everything no exceptions.

Also no need to get pissy with 316.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Firefromthegods said:


> Tony has said he writes everything no exceptions.
> 
> Also no need to get pissy with 316.


he said he writes everything with his 'team' - and the wrestlers involved

he also said there is no script / its just booking bullet points

I'm sure Punk has 100s added


----------



## CM Buck

LifeInCattleClass said:


> he said he writes everything with his 'team' - and the wrestlers involved
> 
> he also said there is no script / its just booking bullet points
> 
> I'm sure Punk has 100s added


Yeah creative input. Not creative control. The last thing you do is give a guy like punk 100 percent control. His ego is pretty well known


----------



## Erik.

Firefromthegods said:


> Tony has said he writes everything no exceptions.
> 
> Also no need to get pissy with 316.


Its Punks show.

Anything done on Friday, he absolutely had the final say. And I wouldnt be surprised if what happens wasn't suggested by Punk himself.

Going forward. Sure. But Friday? I wouldnt be surprised if Khan tells him to go out there and get people talking.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Firefromthegods said:


> Yeah creative input. Not creative control. The last thing you do is give a guy like punk 100 percent control. His ego is pretty well known


no, course

but TK also doesn’t do it all himself

its a collab and he has final say


----------



## CM Buck

Erik. said:


> Its Punks show.
> 
> Anything done on Friday, he absolutely had the final say. And I wouldnt be surprised if what happens wasn't suggested by Punk himself.
> 
> Going forward. Sure. But Friday? I wouldnt be surprised if Khan tells him to go out there and get people talking.


Yeah like I said to life, creative input. But you never give talent full control. Especially if they have an ego. Not even the bucks or omega or Cody have veto over Tony.

It's too dangerous. Look what full control did to WCW. Hogan could basically control everything. And punks ego is well known. It's both his gift and his curse. His already got the Brock lesnar type contract. 

Punk turning up in an aew ring in Chicago is enough buzz. Tony doesn't need to bend over for Punk.


----------



## EMGESP

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you have to give Punk a 15 min something to do at the end
> 
> you can't blue-ball 20k people
> 
> it won't be right
> 
> make like a whole thing from it - like Bdon says, show the car pulling in
> 
> maybe hands wrapping the X - stuff like that throughout the night
> 
> and then end it with a 15min segment


I like the idea of teasing him throughout the show.


----------



## Erik.

Firefromthegods said:


> Yeah like I said to life, creative input. But you never give talent full control. Especially if they have an ego. Not even the bucks or omega or Cody have veto over Tony.
> 
> It's too dangerous. Look what full control did to WCW. Hogan could basically control everything. And punks ego is well known. It's both his gift and his curse. His already got the Brock lesnar type contract.
> 
> Punk turning up in an aew ring in Chicago is enough buzz. Tony doesn't need to bend over for Punk.


I think allowing Punk to have his moment for one night is a little different to letting Hogan book the show.

Just please no hokey limo arriving bullshit.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> I think allowing Punk to have his moment for one night is a little different to letting Hogan book the show.
> 
> Just please no hokey limo arriving bullshit.


yeah, let him arrive on a 4-wheeler


----------



## 3venflow

Great news - Showbuzz is back from the dead! That should mean full next day ratings and demos for Dynamite again.


----------



## zkorejo

Watched some Punk promos.. the promo game in AEW is about to have a whole new level to beat. 

Cm Punk: "when I say a movie star, I don't mean you (at triple h), I mean a real movie star."

Triple H: "Where's your movie btw?"

CM Punk: "oh mine went straight to DVD, just like yours."

He gave Triple H a crying face with that quick witted fast response. Perfect response, perfect delivery, clearly improvised.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> Great news - Showbuzz is back from the dead! That should mean full next day ratings and demos for Dynamite again.


*Good, we don't have to hear about Meltzer's bullshit anymore.*


----------



## 3venflow

Rampage rating is in:

740,000 and 0.31 in the 18-49 demo


----------



## RogueSlayer

That's a great number tbf I was expecting 600,000


----------



## omaroo

3venflow said:


> Rampage rating is in:
> 
> 740,000 and 0.30 in the 18-49 demo


Better than what I expected.

BUT as I keep saying on the timeslot and day they are on AEW shouldnt expect anything special or dynamite numbers.

Moving to Saturdays and better timeslot down the line will see a change in ratings for sure.


----------



## Erik.

Great number.


----------



## Dark Emperor

3venflow said:


> Rampage rating is in:
> 
> 740,000 and 0.30 in the 18-49 demo


Terrible in my opinion. This was the debut show so its likely the highest its ever gonna go after Punk next week.

Deffo the poor timeslot won't help them.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> Rampage rating is in:
> 
> 740,000 and 0.30 in the 18-49 demo


*I expected 800. Was thinking a million for the alleged CM Punk debut. It's still a much better number than their awful Friday shows last month, proving that quality does matter, not that 250,000 people are partying in the middle of a pandemic.*


----------



## TheGunnShow

They should move it to Saturday. Dynamite on Saturday did better than any of the late night Friday shows.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Worse than what i was expecting - was hoping for a miracle 900k 

oh well…. This week should be mega interesting

do we know where it ranked in the top 50 on the day?


----------



## ProjectGargano

Not bad for the timeslot but they should put it on Saturdays on a better Timeslot. Put it on TBS from now at a good timeslot.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Good number for debut Rampage in that timeslot. On the lower end of what I'd call good, but still good nevertheless.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

That's a great number for that slot ...number 3 on cable only behind football


----------



## 3venflow




----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Worse than what i was expecting - was hoping for a miracle 900k
> 
> oh well…. This week should be mega interesting
> 
> do we know where it ranked in the top 50 on the day?


3rd





__





UPDATED: SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Top 150 Friday Cable Originals & Network Finals: 8.13.2021 | Showbuzz Daily







showbuzzdaily.com


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> View attachment 106432


*I'm confused. Why weren't over a quarter million people partying, working, sleeping, masturbating, whatever the f*** we were told they were doing when no one was watching those bad episodes of Dynamite on Fridays? Y'all sure had a lot of excuses that I don't see right now.*


----------



## Martyn

The Legit DMD said:


> *I'm confused. Why weren't over a quarter million people partying, working, sleeping, masturbating, whatever the f*** we were told they were doing when no one was watching those bad episodes of Dynamite on Fridays? Y'all sure had a lot of excuses that I don't see right now.*


Those Dynamite shows weren't as heavily advertised.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> View attachment 106432


ok, nevermind - for a 22:00 show to be 3rd on the night

tnt must be fucking ecstatic


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Martyn said:


> Those Dynamite shows weren't as heavily advertised.


*Yes, they were. As a basketball fan, I saw the Friday Dynamite advertisements during every single commercial break. The NBA was doing millionS (plural, not singular) of viewers per game in the playoffs. They have a bigger reach than all of AEW social media combined, but seeing as you're not from this country, you probably had no idea and I'm going to assume that you're not being blatantly disingenuous. There's no excuse for this.*


----------



## rbl85

Means more than 800K for this week with Punk


----------



## Dark Emperor

People are saying great number but not taking into account this is the hyped Debut. 

For example Dynamite never got closer than 200k of the 1.4m debut show. 

So we can expect the average rating long term to be under 600k based on this numbers. It's pretty pointless for TNT to give them a second show and put it in the worst evening timeslot.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Dark Emperor said:


> People are saying great number but not taking into account this is the hyped Debut.
> 
> For example Dynamite never got closer than 200k of the 1.4m debut show.
> 
> So we can expect the average rating long term to be under 600k based on this numbers. It's pretty pointless for TNT to give them a second show and put it in the worst evening timeslot.


*But we should expect more for this week because of the alleged CM Punk debut. There's truth to the debut garnering more interest, but the bottom line is that if people want to watch your wrestling show in the Friday "death slot", they will. They didn't even try with those shitty episodes, so there was no sense of urgency to tune in.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dark Emperor said:


> People are saying great number but not taking into account this is the hyped Debut.
> 
> For example Dynamite never got closer than 200k of the 1.4m debut show.
> 
> So we can expect the average rating long term to be under 600k based on this numbers. It's pretty pointless for TNT to give them a second show and put it in the worst evening timeslot.


well, pointless from whose point of view?

for tnt they get a show in the top 10 on a friday night where they’ve never ranked

more money for them from basically nothing

aew gets another show to give people time, sell tix, sell merch and gets tv money they didn’t have

could be better, sure - but hardly ‘pointless’


----------



## NXT Only

Dark Emperor said:


> People are saying great number but not taking into account this is the hyped Debut.
> 
> For example Dynamite never got closer than 200k of the 1.4m debut show.
> 
> So we can expect the average rating long term to be under 600k based on this numbers. It's pretty pointless for TNT to give them a second show and put it in the worst evening timeslot.


It’s not really a debut show. It’s an extended version of something we already see on Wednesday’s.


----------



## Dark Emperor

NXT Only said:


> It’s not really a debut show. It’s an extended version of something we already see on Wednesday’s.


Okay fair enough. So if it goes under 600k as i expect after a month. Will you admit it is a terrible rating or will people blame the timeslot?

If 740k is their average going forward, then that will be amazing.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *I'm confused. Why weren't over a quarter million people partying, working, sleeping, masturbating, whatever the f*** we were told they were doing when no one was watching those bad episodes of Dynamite on Fridays? Y'all sure had a lot of excuses that I don't see right now.*


Jesus Christ, all of those Dynamite episodes at Daily’s Place took place before they even went back on the road, and most of those shows were filler too. 

Quit trying to bait just because you’re too bitter over the fact that you were wrong about the company losing “around half” of their audience.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Dark Emperor said:


> Okay fair enough. So if it goes under 600k as i expect after a month. Will you admit it is a terrible rating or will people blame the timeslot?
> 
> If 740k is their average going forward, then that will be amazing.


*Yeah, 700 k flat will be great for random weekly episodes, unlike the 4-500 k Dynamite episodes where they put Dark quality shit on television.*


----------



## Prosper

That’s a pretty good number for that time slot. Those are Dynamite numbers at their worst. Was expecting more like 800k but I’ll take 740k. Good demo too. They were only beat by the NFL which is good.


----------



## rich110991

Why would they put it on so late? Surely they know the ratings will suffer? I want answers from TK 😂


----------



## yeahright2

740K viewers for a heavily hyped debut episode of Rampage.. That actually doesn´t bode well for their regular shows once the excitement of a new show wears off. -I´m thinking we may be looking at around 450-500K viewers.. But hey, if TNT is satisfied with that..


----------



## Prosper

yeahright2 said:


> 740K viewers for a heavily hyped debut episode of Rampage.. That actually doesn´t bode well for their regular shows once the excitement of a new show wears off. -I´m thinking we may be looking at around 450-500K viewers.. But hey, if TNT is satisfied with that..



Anything top 5 a network would usually be satisfied/happy with, of course there’s room for improvement though.


----------



## yeahright2

Prosper said:


> Anything top 5 a network would usually be satisfied/happy with, of course there’s room for improvement though.


But will 450K be enough to be in top 5? I haven´t studied their rating patterns for the entire TNT programming


----------



## omaroo

I think if they put good cards and popular wrestlers every week on Rampage then 700k I think will generally be the norm on Fridays. 

They are trying to make Rampage somewhat the A show like dynamite so have to put good to great cards every week.


----------



## Erik.

I know wrestling fans are stereotypical losers - im more shocked 700k people watched wrestling late on a Friday night.


----------



## THANOS

Mr316 said:


> That would be the dumbest move ever. You need to Punk to close the show for ratings.


Agreed.

Punk chants throughout the night just building to his debut capped off at the end will create a spectacle in history.

Who cares if the matches on the show get drowned by the chants, that will only add to it. The night itself will be remembered for Punk's return, not for the matches or segments.


----------



## 3venflow

If Darby wrestles on Rampage, his placement on the card will probably tell us when Punk might appear.


----------



## Prized Fighter

Rampage shouldn't see the same low ratings as the Friday Night Dynamites. The one hour format gives Rampage an advantage. People don't have to stay up till midnight to watch and it avoids fatigue. That especially goes for people who watch 2 hours of Smackdown beforehand. If you look at the previous Friday night Dynamite episodes, the quarter hour ratings drop a ton after 10:30 pm.

As long as the show keeps the quick pace it had this Friday, they could stay steady at 700k or higher.


----------



## Mr316

Top 3 on cable TV with that kind of timeslot is pretty damn great. With that being said, I’m sure Tony Khan was hoping for a little more viewers for their premiere.


----------



## taker_2004

The Legit DMD said:


> *But we should expect more for this week because of the alleged CM Punk debut. There's truth to the debut garnering more interest, but the bottom line is that if people want to watch your wrestling show in the Friday "death slot", they will. They didn't even try with those shitty episodes, so there was no sense of urgency to tune in.*


I don't know man. You know I don't follow AEW closely, but just looking at this data here, you can immediately tell the anomalies are from the last show in May until the last show in June. I don't even know if that lines up with being moved to Fridays, but I imagine it does. The average viewership has since rebounded and even grown slightly. So, just looking at that objectively, I don't think you can genuinely say it was just because the show became garbage for a month. Maybe they didn't put as much effort into it, but that's because in-house viewership is routinely down across the board on Fridays. And I think the longterm trends will bear that out. Rampage might approach 900K next week, but I doubt it will achieve Dynamite numbers despite the massive hype behind it. And that's just because it's a Friday.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

rbl85 said:


> I pretty sure they also posted this on their Twitter account


Lmfao straight owned lol


----------



## Chan Hung

Rampage did a great rating. I expected 600k. They were hitting under 700k normally on Fridays with Dynamite. This will only increase i think.


----------



## Seafort

ProjectGargano said:


> Not bad for the timeslot but they should put it on Saturdays on a better Timeslot. Put it on TBS from now at a good timeslot.


6:05?


----------



## Joe Gill

debut episodes are usually the highest rated... cm punk debut will push it higher... might even crack 1 million given the hype...but after that it will settle down around 500k considering its not the main show and timeslot.


----------



## shandcraig

omaroo said:


> Punk or not Rampage on Fridays at that timeslot just cant do decent ratings.
> 
> Honestly wonder how long they will be stuck in that position.


i could see them switched to saturday at 4 western time. Much better slot that will draw for them


----------



## thorn123

I was expecting 600k, but really it deserved 1.5 mill or more. That was a great show, and with the exception of a blip a fortnight ago, dynamite has been on point too. So much better than the rubbish the opposition churns out.

I just wish people would be more open minded about change. I mean how can this rate less than Raw.


----------



## thorn123

Dark Emperor said:


> People are saying great number but not taking into account this is the hyped Debut.
> 
> For example Dynamite never got closer than 200k of the 1.4m debut show.
> 
> So we can expect the average rating long term to be under 600k based on this numbers. It's pretty pointless for TNT to give them a second show and put it in the worst evening timeslot.


as a huge fan of AEW, I agree with you


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Erik. said:


> You 100% open with him.
> 
> That's when the show likely has the most viewers.
> 
> Have him come out at the beginning and then have him promise that's not the last you see of him that night. That way you keep viewers, you also build intrigue but you also don't have the fans ruin potential good matches with numerous CM Punk chants throughout the show.
> 
> But it's a double edged sword.
> 
> If Punk opens the show then you run the risk of the crowd getting burnt out just by cheering the guy and nothing else will compare to it. The visual of the crowd chanting his name for a solid minute or so and just showing them before we hear his music hit would be fantastic.
> 
> If Punk closes the show then you risk people chanting CM Punk until he shows up. This can be avoided if you fill the show up with crowd favorites who the fans like and wouldn’t mind being the reason they wait just a little bit for Punk’s debut. Especially if Darby is in a main event match, then they know once it’s over, Punk is likely coming.
> 
> He doesn’t even need to cut a promo. He can just go out there and have a stare down. The reaction alone is worth it and he can cut a promo to the crowd after the show ends and then hype up Punk on a live mic for Dynamite.


Sorry but being a television writer/wrestling writer is not in your future.

You definitely don't start things off with CM Punk, lol. Lets say we go with your idea, Punk comes out and takes 20 minutes to have a chat with the audience (What is he going to say for 20 minutes, by the way?), the audience goes mental, CM Punk! CM Punk! CM Punk!

And then what...? Ladies and Gentlemen here comes Fuego Del Sol for the opening contest! Nobody would give a fuck about anything else on the show, you'd have popped your audience (They can only pop once regardless of what people say) and that's it, dead crowd for the rest of your show.

You build anticipation throughout the night, limousine arriving is a good way to do this, security sprawled out around it, announcers speculating "Could it really be? After 7 years? No, surely not" and you let it build and build. Security in front of the private dressing room, backstage announcer trying to get a word, Tony Khan approached asking if CM Punk is here and him saying "You know I can't say anything about that!" etc etc.

Darby Allin wins his main event match, gets on the microphone, "I wanted the best in the world so come on out here now and show yourself!"...lights dim, Cult Of Personality hits, crowd has an absolute meltdown and pops (When they are supposed to) and CM Punk appears and does whatever is planned for him.

Crowd wants to chant CM Punk all night? Let them. They're going to do it anyway whether he comes out seg 1 or seg 8. Only part I agree with you on is that Punk's first talk should be hyped for Dynamite and promoted.



Britz94xD said:


> My only concern is they'll bring in all those guys at once. If those people do come to AEW, they should be spread out over the next 12 months or longer. Even Punk and Bryan debuting within a month of each other seems like overkill.


This. Stretch them out because if you don't where do you go from there?



Joe Gill said:


> debut episodes are usually the highest rated... cm punk debut will push it higher... might even crack 1 million given the hype...but after that it will settle down around 500k considering its not the main show and timeslot.


I'm surprised they're even having Punk debut on Rampage tbh. That seems like something that should be reserved for Dynamite or even PPV.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*@Chip Chipperson how do you prevent the other matches from getting hijacked? I like the suggestions from other people with teases throughout the night to confirm he's in the building.*


----------



## Mister Sinister

That's not a bad number for that hour. Imagine what the audience would be if they move it to Monday at 6pm Central.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Legit DMD said:


> *@Chip Chipperson how do you prevent the other matches from getting hijacked? I like the suggestions from other people with teases throughout the night to confirm he's in the building.*


You just have to deal with it unfortunately. It's probably going to be a thing for a few weeks until the hype dies down a little bit but the people are going to be excited and won't want to shut up about Punk.

It's actually a good thing, if they have Punk and the audience is so excited that they're going to chant his name all night that's pretty much a licence to print money.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW have sold around 8,000 tickets for the post-All Out show at the Fifth-Third Arena in Cincinnati. Capacity is around 10k and the ticket office expects it to sell out. It'll be Moxley's homecoming so I'd expect him in the main event.

Some really big shows coming up for AEW in the 8-14k range.









First Post-All Out Dynamite in Cincinnati 'Closing In On Sellout'


All-Elite Wrestling Dynamite at Fifth-Third Arena in Cincinnati has sold around 8,000 tickets three weeks prior to the Wednesday Sept. 8, 2021 event,




www.sescoops.com


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Chip Chipperson said:


> You just have to deal with it unfortunately. It's probably going to be a thing for a few weeks until the hype dies down a little bit but the people are going to be excited and won't want to shut up about Punk.
> 
> It's actually a good thing, if they have Punk and the audience is so excited that they're going to chant his name all night that's pretty much a licence to print money.


*You do realize no one would ever want to wrestle on Rampage, right? That's horrible for morale.*


----------



## NXT Only

Dark Emperor said:


> Okay fair enough. So if it goes under 600k as i expect after a month. Will you admit it is a terrible rating or will people blame the timeslot?
> 
> If 740k is their average going forward, then that will be amazing.


The time slot isn’t ideal, it’s probably going to fluctuate for a while but with Dynamite being two days before it should help it. The Friday Dynamite a lot was hurt more by the week long wait.

We have to give it some time to see how it trends.


----------



## NXT Only

rich110991 said:


> Why would they put it on so late? Surely they know the ratings will suffer? I want answers from TK 😂


8-10 is taken by Smackdown. 7 is too early on a Friday night. 10 is terrible but the best option.


----------



## yeahright2

rich110991 said:


> Why would they put it on so late? Surely they know the ratings will suffer? I want answers from TK 😂


It´s not like TK can just dictate when he wants his show on the air.


----------



## Not Lying

Good rating. Top 3 on cable is always good. 
One other thing to consider vs the previous friday shows is that they were 2h shows, this was 1h.
I’d expect more to watch from 10-11pm than from 11-12pm.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*No surprise that Britt beat Kenny in THE ALL IMPORTANT DEMO yet again. It's amazing that she gained 38,000 viewers "in the death slot that no one watches" after they lost 46,000 after the Fuego segment. Hopefully this ends the embarrassing takes about no one caring about women's wrestling.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1427690670852960258*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1427685916592726024


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *No surprise that Britt beat Kenny in THE ALL IMPORTANT DEMO yet again. It's amazing that she gained 38,000 viewers "in the death slot that no one watches" after they lost 46,000 after the Fuego segment. Hopefully this ends the embarrassing takes about no one caring about women's wrestling.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1427690670852960258*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1427685916592726024


1. Nobody on here said that absolutely "nobody" cares about women's wrestling.

2. You're really going to ignore the fact that the overall viewership *peaked* with Kenny Omega's world title match against Christian Cage (even though you continue to blindly downplay any drawing ability that he has)? 😂 

3. Get better takes, 'm8.'


----------



## ElTerrible

The Legit DMD said:


> *No surprise that Britt beat Kenny in THE ALL IMPORTANT DEMO yet again. It's amazing that she gained 38,000 viewers "in the death slot that no one watches" after they lost 46,000 after the Fuego segment. Hopefully this ends the embarrassing takes about no one caring about women's wrestling.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1427690670852960258*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1427685916592726024


I wonder how often AEW intentionally takes a calculated short-term rating "tank" like Miro vs. Fuego. They know the bigger stars would drive some slightly better quarterly ratings, but how do you familiarize your audience with potential new stars, if you don´t feature them. Okay Fuego is unlikely to ever be one and that was probably also a cooldown match, but take Dante Martin for example. Take Britt Baker herself, who was a nobody two years ago.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

ElTerrible said:


> I wonder how often AEW intentionally takes a calculated short-term rating "tank" like Miro vs. Fuego. They know the bigger stars would drive some slightly better quarterly ratings, but how do you familiarize your audience with potential new stars, if you don´t feature them. Okay Fuego is unlikely to ever be one and that was probably also a cooldown match, but take Dante Martin for example. Take Britt Baker herself, who was a nobody two years ago.


*There's a time and a place for everything. The Fuego segment could have been saved for Dynamite. You want the Rampage debut to feel like the biggest thing ever, so you only put extremely important stuff on there. I'm actually glad it happened this way because what Britt Baker did was near impossible based on the excuses I read here last month about the Friday time slot. It just goes to show how popular she is as the face of this company.*


----------



## izhack111

Let's be honest...Omega is fucking boring I dont see anything about him in AEW, dont care what he done in NJPW...his AEW run is terrible


----------



## DammitChrist

izhack111 said:


> Let's be honest...Omega is fucking boring I dont see anything about him in AEW, dont care what he done in NJPW...his AEW run is terrible


He (along with Shingo Takagi) is pretty much the MVP of the year so far in the wrestling industry. 

His run is anything but “terrible”


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> He (along with Shingo Takagi) is pretty much the MVP of the year so far in the wrestling industry.
> 
> His run is anything but “terrible”


Can you just let someone else have an opinion? Please?

I'd agree with Izhack in that Kenny is boring and very very overrated by the AEW fanbase.


----------



## DammitChrist

Chip Chipperson said:


> Can you just let someone else have an opinion? Please?
> 
> I'd agree with Izhack in that Kenny is boring and very very overrated by the AEW fanbase.


First of all, I just did (even if it's a laughable one).

Secondly, nah, Omega is entertaining and he's one of the best wrestlers in the industry.

Now can please you let someone else actually be optimistic for this company for once?


----------



## El Hammerstone

DammitChrist said:


> First of all, I just did (even if it's a laughable one).
> 
> Secondly, nah, Omega is entertaining and he's one of the best wrestlers in the industry.
> 
> Now can please you let someone else actually be optimistic for this company for once?


Your responses to things you disagree with are often along the lines of "actually, it's like this...", followed by an emoji; you're correcting people, and not being the least bit transparent about it.


----------



## 3venflow

Tomorrow's ticket situation. They've moved over 1,000 tickets for this one since the start of August and added a lot more seats (original capacity was 3,946).


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1427784888976089090


----------



## DaSlacker

Chip Chipperson said:


> Can you just let someone else have an opinion? Please?
> 
> I'd agree with Izhack in that Kenny is boring and very very overrated by the AEW fanbase.


He's basically AEW's version of Seth Rollins. About the same level in terms of ring work, promo ability and appearance.


----------



## Martyn

With such a stacked card and a show that really delivered, I'd expect them to bounce back over a million and #1 spot on cable. They deserve it here.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Regarding Rampage quarters (just saw them):

Let’s all thank God for giving us Miro (bonus thanks to his hot wife). Carrying a jobber to highest quarter of the show!


(And yes I’m joking. Quite a bit happened in that quarter).


----------



## Garty

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Regarding Rampage quarters (just saw them):
> 
> Let’s all thank God for giving us Miro (bonus thanks to his hot wife). Carrying a jobber to highest quarter of the show!
> 
> 
> (And yes I’m joking. Quite a bit happened in that quarter).


I love the CJ shout-outs. I think there was one where he said, "my hot contortionist wife", or something like that. Maybe it was bendable! Either way...


----------



## RainmakerV2




----------



## RogueSlayer

975,000 

That's not great was expecting them to get a million at least with it being a stacked show


----------



## RainmakerV2

Every show with a 20 min young buck match does under a mil. It's science at this point


----------



## omaroo

Shame its under a million for another week now.

That show they are up against must be something bloody special.

1.2-1.3 million every week with punk and bryan not sure how realistic that is with the competition they have to deal with.


----------



## Garty

Well, with that out of the way, I'm going to call the same rating for Rampage tomorrow night.

It's The Challenge once again chipping away at the overall numbers.


----------



## omaroo

Garty said:


> Well, with that out of the way, I'm going to call the same rating for Rampage tomorrow night.
> 
> It's The Challenge once again chipping away at the overall numbers.


Never seen the challenge.

But what the hell is so special about it that it does such big numbers?


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> Every show with a 20 min young buck match does under a mil. It's science at this point


Nah, that doesn't explain the Dynamite episode from 3 weeks ago where they not only managed to hit 1+ million viewers with approximately 30 minutes featuring the Young Bucks, but they've also managed to be part of the highest rated (peak) segment in a long while.

At least try not to be biased by ignoring those facts.


----------



## 3venflow

Challenge is a reality competition where they do extreme challenges, so it has a pretty significant 18-49 audience and definitely eats into AEW somewhat.


----------



## Mr316

You’d hope for a little more.


----------



## Garty

omaroo said:


> Never seen the challenge.
> 
> But what the hell is so special about it that it does such big numbers?


It's a competition show with 20-30 year-old hot men and hot women. Think of the show Survivor, when the teams go head-to-head in the immunity challenges... it's like that.

Basically hormones vs. estrogen.


----------



## La Parka

Rough. AEW has a ton of buzz right now and they had a card that featured most of their big players. 

I guess we will see just how big of a draw Bryan and Punk are in 2021. 

If they can’t break a million every single week after the biggest two signings they will ever get, then I’d be wager to say a million will never be a consistent thing.


----------



## Borko

Not good. Hopefully if CM Punk really makes his debut on Friday they'll never go under one million again.


----------



## RapShepard

1. Good number they're still up from the 875k average they seemed to have. 

2. I see the "other things were on TV" excuse is back lol.


----------



## reamstyles

Nah just continue to bring in the good show, good word of mouth will follow..and dont make other tv show as an excuse thing


----------



## Garty

RapShepard said:


> 1. Good number they're still up from the 875k average they seemed to have.
> 
> 2. I see the "other things were on TV" excuse is back lol.





reamstyles said:


> Nah just continue to bring in the good show, good word of mouth will follow..and dont make other tv show as an excuse thing


There is a big difference between an excuse and a factor.


----------



## 3venflow

0.50 in the 18-49 male demo is pretty great. But look at the female 18-49 vs. competition.

One thing AEW has benefited from after going unopposed by NXT is the 50+ demo. They used to be very weak with that age group.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Good enough


----------



## RapShepard

Garty said:


> There is a big difference between an excuse and a factor.


It's an excuse, competition on TV happens. The same way WWE should produce a show where folk want to see Raw over Monday Night Football, is the same way AEW should create a show where folk want to watch AEW Dynamite over any other competition.


----------



## rbl85

It's going to be tough to do better than what they're doing now because the women seems to really like their Challenge and Real Housewives.


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> It's an excuse, competition on TV happens. The same way WWE should produce a show where folk want to see Raw over Monday Night Football, is the same way AEW should create a show where folk want to watch AEW Dynamite over any other competition.


I'm not sure you want AEW to produce a show that would made the women watching the Challenge or Housewives thing want to watch AEW.


----------



## Garty

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Good enough


----------



## Prosper

975K is fine, we can't move the goal posts and say anything under a mil is "bad". Of course as fans we want it over a mil every week but we can't pretend that anything over 900K isn't good either.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> I'm not sure you want AEW to produce a show that would made the women watching the Challenge or Housewives thing want to watch AEW.


I'm fine with fuckery in wrestling. Relationship angles and drama just work when done right.


----------



## rbl85

Prosper said:


> 975K is fine, we can't move the goal posts and say anything under a mil is "bad". Of course as fans we want it over a mil every week but we can't pretend that anything over 900K isn't good either.


For the moment only special shows are doing +1M


----------



## DammitChrist

RapShepard said:


> 1. Good number they're still up from the 875k average they seemed to have.
> 
> *2. I see the "other things were on TV" excuse is back lol.*


Nope, it's not an "excuse" if it's a perfectly valid explanation 

It's best to let those reasonable justifications continue. I don't think they should be ignored.


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> 975K is fine, we can't move the goal posts and say anything under a mil is "bad". Of course as fans we want it over a mil every week but we can't pretend that anything over 900K isn't good either.


Exactly they're fine.


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> I'm fine with fuckery in wrestling. Relationship angles and drama just work when done right.


Oh you're ok with that ? ok ok

But what if you lose in men what you gain in women ?

I think the best thing do to is to continue what they're doing.


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> Nope, it's not an "excuse" if it's a perfectly valid explanation
> 
> It's best to let those reasonable justifications continue. I don't think they should be ignored.


Nope it's an excuse, anytime they don't perform up to lofty expectations there's a scapegoat excuse for why.


----------



## DammitChrist

Garty said:


> There is a big difference between an excuse and a factor.


Yep, that's exactly the point! The 'excuse' term gets overused like crazy.


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> Oh you're ok with that ? ok ok
> 
> But what if you lose in men what you gain in women ?



You dont


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> Oh you're ok with that ? ok ok
> 
> But what if you lose in men what you gain in women ?


You wouldn't men like relationship drama too. Look at all the men who like Macho Man & Elizabeth, Chyna and Eddie, Matt & Lita to the point they were genuinely pissed at Lita for cheating.


----------



## Garty

RapShepard said:


> Nope it's an excuse, anytime they don't perform up to lofty expectations there's a scapegoat excuse for why.


The Challenge and other reality TV shows are just what the demos show. Young adults. They're big gets and since most people that watch these shows are in the age bracket of those demos and the added instant-gratification with social media/gossip nature of the shows, it's clearly a factor of what's being watched at that time.


----------



## RapShepard

Garty said:


> The Challenge and other reality TV shows are just what the demos show. Young adults. They're big gets and since most people that watch these shows are in the age bracket of those demos and the added instant-gratification with social media/gossip nature of the shows, it's clearly a factor of what's being watched at that time.


No excuses add shit that attracts those demos to not dip out for The Challenge and other shows.


----------



## Garty

RapShepard said:


> No excuses add shit that attracts those demos to not dip out for The Challenge and other shows.


My man, they're going to watch those shows no matter what AEW, or any other show puts on that night at that time.


----------



## RapShepard

Garty said:


> My man, they're going to watch those shows no matter what AEW, or any other show puts on that night at that time.


Bull shit, people will watch what intrigues and interests them. By your logic wrestling should still be doing the same numbers as back in the day since fans will watch things no matter what.


----------



## Garty

RapShepard said:


> Bull shit, people will watch what intrigues and interests them. By your logic wrestling should still be doing the same numbers as back in the day since fans will watch things no matter what.


If a Beyonce or Drake concert was on at the same time as AEW, which show do you think would be watched by more people and who'd be watching it? The male demo is there for wrestling, but the female demo is not.

Factors.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Solid number. Wonder if main event performed well again. Will be good to see the quarter numbers.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I’m kinda with @RapShepard here - there will always be other shows / they need to rise above it and be number 1

i don’t see discussing the other shows as ‘excuses‘ though - its just discussion

and largely, i would not want to watch a wrestling show that changes itself so much to get the ‘housewives of atlanta’ or whatever reality show audience to watch

so…. In short… to me its all good / hope they climb to 1 but still keep their identity


----------



## DaSlacker

I'm no expert but isn't it the female 18-49 and 50+ demo that AEW is lagging with? The 18-49 is solid and relatively consistent. The aforementioned is where they more than half that of Raw. Partly due to the older fan watching Monday Night Wrestling out of habit and because WWE has been the goto brand for so long. 

The only hope of changing both is by doubling the amount of female matches per show and the bringing in of former WWE stars like Punk, Bryan and Wyatt. That's very uncertain because if that was the case then Jericho, Moxley, Christian and Sting would have boosted the numbers by more.


----------



## RapShepard

Garty said:


> If a Beyonce or Drake concert was on at the same time as AEW, which show do you think would be watched by more people and who'd be watching it? The male demo is there for wrestling, but the female demo is not.
> 
> Factors.


Again you produce a show that your fans don't want to miss. You produce a show where different demos want to watch. You produce a show where people aren't switching out every other month when a reality show season starts. Instead of blaming The Challenge for existing just say you're annoyed they didn't live up to the lofty expectations you had.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> 1. Good number they're still up from the 875k average they seemed to have.
> 
> 2. I see the "other things were on TV" excuse is back lol.


*There's always an excuse when the show doesn't do well. You can't do much more than advertising a Sting match for the first time in 20 years*.


----------



## NXT Only

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I’m kinda with @RapShepard here - there will always be other shows / they need to rise above it and be number 1
> 
> i don’t see discussing the other shows as ‘excuses‘ though - its just discussion
> 
> and largely, i would not want to watch a wrestling show that changes itself so much to get the ‘housewives of atlanta’ or whatever reality show audience to watch
> 
> so…. In short… to me its all good / hope they climb to 1 but still keep their identity


They put on a show worthy of 1M+ but just missed by a 25K average which isn’t a ton to make up for. Variety in television will always be a factor. It’s a good number but because it’s under 1M people will say it’s because of whatever narrative they want to draw. Whether it be the show was shit so it rated “poorly” or there was a lot of competition on television so the rating was lower than hoped. 

Either way it’s an endless debate. We enjoyed the show and that’s what matters.


----------



## Chan Hung

Surprised as fuck. They put on one of their best Dynamite shows last night.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

NXT Only said:


> They put on a show worthy of 1M+ but just missed by a 25K average which isn’t a ton to make up for. Variety in television will always be a factor. It’s a good number but because it’s under 1M people will say it’s because of whatever narrative they want to draw. Whether it be the show was shit so it rated “poorly” or there was a lot of competition on television so the rating was lower than hoped.
> 
> Either way it’s an endless debate. We enjoyed the show and that’s what matters.


agreed with this


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> It's an excuse, competition on TV happens. The same way WWE should produce a show where folk want to see Raw over Monday Night Football, is the same way AEW should create a show where folk want to watch AEW Dynamite over any other competition.


To get that, AEW will have to become “Sports Entertainment” and lean into the Jerry Springer bullshit that NO AEW fan wants.


rbl85 said:


> It's going to be tough to do better than what they're doing now because the women seems to really like their Challenge and Real Housewives.


Bingo. You have to stop being a WRESTLING show.


rbl85 said:


> I'm not sure you want AEW to produce a show that would made the women watching the Challenge or Housewives thing want to watch AEW.


Thank you.


RapShepard said:


> I'm fine with fuckery in wrestling. Relationship angles and drama just work when done right.


Ooooh goddamn you Attitude fans and your trashy Jerry Springer tastes. Lmao


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> To get that, AEW will have to become “Sports Entertainment” and lean into the Jerry Springer bullshit that NO AEW fan wants.
> 
> Bingo. You have to stop being a WRESTLING show.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Ooooh goddamn you Attitude fans and your trashy Jerry Springer tastes. Lmao


fuck bdon - why am i agreeing so much with you these days??


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> To get that, AEW will have to become “Sports Entertainment” and lean into the Jerry Springer bullshit that NO AEW fan wants.
> 
> Bingo. You have to stop being a WRESTLING show.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Ooooh goddamn you Attitude fans and your trashy Jerry Springer tastes. Lmao


They're already sports entertainment [emoji2379]


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> They're already sports entertainment [emoji2379]


but like… even more


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> They're already sports entertainment [emoji2379]


No, they’re a modern wrestling show. Sports Entertainment is the Jerry Springer, “reality TV” shit that WWE puts out. You know? Vince’s dream of “making movies”..?

THAT is sports entertainment.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> but like… even more


And there's nothing wrong with leaning more into the entertainment.


----------



## .christopher.

Chan Hung said:


> Surprised as fuck. They put on one of their best Dynamite shows last night.


Remember, you get the rating you do for last weeks show. Bar the occasions when you're hyping something big in advance like Punk's debut.


RapShepard said:


> They're already sports entertainment [emoji2379]


How are people kidding themselves that AEW is classic wrestling? The show is something Vince Russo would be proud of. Well, bar women being used as legitimate competitors.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> And there's nothing wrong with leaning more into the entertainment.


there is to me - and i’m guessing others on here too


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> No, they’re a modern wrestling show. Sports Entertainment is the Jerry Springer, “reality TV” shit that WWE puts out. You know? Vince’s dream of “making movies”..?
> 
> THAT is sports entertainment.


You got a drunk cowboy that hangs out with a cult of misfit losers. 

A world champion running around with a toadie assistant and the tag champions running around with a toadie with cold spray

You got a weird demon of sort woman that bites people

A self described alien 

They've done a song and dance routine, had a crazy in Vegas skit, had one wrestler steal or think he stole another's wife, had a barbed wire death match, and just recently slowed down on kidnappings lol

They're sports entertainment and it's cool they do it well. I don't enjoy all of it. But yes it's sports entertainment.


----------



## .christopher.

bdon said:


> No, they’re a modern wrestling show. Sports Entertainment is the Jerry Springer, “reality TV” shit that WWE puts out. You know? Vince’s dream of “making movies”..?
> 
> THAT is sports entertainment.


Dude, don't kid yourself. The deathmatches, singing and dancing with Jericho, Shaq shit, Tyson cameos, constant swerves that have zero build-up, breaking of kayfabe, etc, is enough to make Russo explode.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

.christopher. said:


> Dude, don't kid yourself. The deathmatches, singing and dancing with Jericho, Shaq shit, Tyson cameos, constant swerves that have zero build-up, breaking of kayfabe, etc, is enough to make Russo explode.


but it’ll have to be more if you want that hot wives of atlanta crowd

relationship angles, more weddings, cat fights, cheating, ‘spilling the tea’ and other horrible buzzwords

like x10

and i’m not watching that shit


----------



## RapShepard

.christopher. said:


> Remember, you get the rating you do for last weeks show. Bar the occasions when you're hyping something big in advance like Punk's debut.
> 
> How are people kidding themselves that AEW is classic wrestling? The show is something Vince Russo would be proud of. Well, bar women being used as legitimate competitors.


Even classic wrestling is sports entertainment 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> there is to me - and i’m guessing others on here too


Probably because you only associate sports entertainment and entertainment with WWE. You're not a fan of most or any current WWE and the natural reaction is "eww". But sports entertainment doesn't have to be current WWE. Hogan vs Andre that's sports entertainment. Flair vs Dusty the blue collar man is sports entertainment. The nWo coming to takeover WCW is sports entertainment.

Sports entertainment isn't just regulated to the zaniest of shit like Mae Young giving birth to a hand lol.


----------



## elo

Female fans didn't take well to Hangman being screwed, they haven't been back to the show since! Start advertising when the Hangman will return ASAP.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Even classic wrestling is sports entertainment
> 
> 
> 
> Probably because you only associate sports entertainment and entertainment with WWE. You're not a fan of most or any current WWE and the natural reaction is "eww". But sports entertainment doesn't have to be current WWE. Hogan vs Andre that's sports entertainment. Flair vs Dusty the blue collar man is sports entertainment. The nWo coming to takeover WCW is sports entertainment.
> 
> Sports entertainment isn't just regulated to the zaniest of shit like Mae Young giving birth to a hand lol.


i’m not arguing the fact that its sports entertainment - i agree

what i am saying is the type of sports entertainment i think it would have to devolve to in order to grab the crowd from the reality shows - i don’t think i’d be interested in


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Even classic wrestling is sports entertainment
> 
> 
> 
> Probably because you only associate sports entertainment and entertainment with WWE. You're not a fan of most or any current WWE and the natural reaction is "eww". But sports entertainment doesn't have to be current WWE. Hogan vs Andre that's sports entertainment. Flair vs Dusty the blue collar man is sports entertainment. The nWo coming to takeover WCW is sports entertainment.
> 
> Sports entertainment isn't just regulated to the zaniest of shit like Mae Young giving birth to a hand lol.


There are levels to Sports Entertainment. Nitro wasn’t just matches, but when it was at its best, everything revolves around the competition. No cheating angles and love triangle shit. That’s Vince’s shit.

And that “zaniest of shit” IS the levels of sports entertainment they will have to go to reach the female fans and the like who watch “reality TV”.

I’d rather they stay at the level of “storytelling” they are at now and not venture into the real reason for Kenny and Hangman’s animosity being that Kenny refused to give Hangman a reach around but did for the Bucks. Lol


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i’m not arguing the fact that its sports entertainment - i agree
> 
> what i am saying is the type of sports entertainment i think it would have to devolve to in order to grab the crowd from the reality shows - i don’t think i’d be interested in


Got you, I think there's a way to do it where everybody is happy. Have it available, but don't make it the main story. Have it as side dish that way for those like yourself can tune out for 10-15 minutes, but those who may like that sort of thing have an extra incentive to watch. You know balance and all that shit lol.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i’m not arguing the fact that its sports entertainment - i agree
> 
> what i am saying is the type of sports entertainment i think it would have to devolve to in order to grab the crowd from the reality shows - i don’t think i’d be interested in


You just beat me to it…


----------



## .christopher.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> but it’ll have to be more if you want that hot wives of atlanta crowd
> 
> relationship angles, more weddings, cat fights, cheating, ‘spilling the tea’ and other horrible buzzwords
> 
> like x10
> 
> and i’m not watching that shit


When the Bucks' wives come in, and it turns out one wife has been cheating with the other Buck, we'll all be glued to our screens!


RapShepard said:


> Even classic wrestling is sports entertainment


Of course, but, using bdon's meaning in that classic stuff (not 90s wwf and wcw and 80s cartoon wwf) at least took itself more seriously and protected kayfabe, AEW still falls way short of the mark.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

.christopher. said:


> When the Bucks' wives come in, and it turns out one wife has been cheating with the other Buck, we'll all be glued to our screens!
> 
> Of course, but, using bdon's meaning in that classic stuff (not 90s wwf and wcw and 80s cartoon wwf) at least took itself more seriously and protected kayfabe, AEW still falls way short of the mark.


literally - i will glue my eyes to the screen if i have to watch that shit  

‘you think Nick can flip in the ring? Where were you when he flipped into my bed?!’


----------



## yeahright2

Ratings are in -we have a winner in our game
AEW Ratings prediction game
@taker_2004 took it this week.

I think we´ve established a baseline for Dynamite viewership on regular episodes.. Just under a million.. Personal preference; If the Bucks didn´t insist on having the longest match on all shows, they´d get a little higher in ratings.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> There are levels to Sports Entertainment. Nitro wasn’t just matches, but when it was at its best, everything revolves around the competition. No cheating angles and love triangle shit. That’s Vince’s shit.
> 
> And that “zaniest of shit” IS the levels of sports entertainment they will have to go to reach the female fans and the like who watch “reality TV”.
> 
> I’d rather they stay at the level of “storytelling” they are at now and not venture into the real reason for Kenny and Hangman’s animosity being that Kenny refused to give Hangman a reach around but did for the Bucks. Lol


You mean like in 96 when Benoit was feuding with Kevin Sullivan? Love angles and all that aren't just a Vince thing. And you don't have to revolve the entire show around it. But having things that encourage female viewers to tune in isn't a bad idea if you want to grow the product. Are you going to not watch the show just because 15 minutes of it has to do with an affair?


----------



## taker_2004

yeahright2 said:


> If the Bucks didn´t insist on having the longest match on all shows, they´d get a little higher in ratings.


----------



## .christopher.

As for the ratings, I'm disappointed. I was hoping they'd stay above a million until Punk's debut and then kick on even more.

Not that it matters much. With this weeks show delivering, and having the buzz from Punk's debut, next week should see a significant increase. If so, I hope they capitalise on the buzz and new viewers.


----------



## .christopher.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> literally - i will glue my eyes to the screen if i have to watch that shit
> 
> ‘you think Nick can flip in the ring? Where were you when he flipped into my bed?!’


Ha, it's going to be captivating stuff. In the end, we'll get a double swerve and it'll turn out that Dave Meltzer has been banging both wives. "Talk about a Meltzer Driver!!!"


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

.christopher. said:


> Ha, it's going to be captivating stuff. In the end, we'll get a double swerve and it'll turn out that Dave Meltzer has been banging both wives. "Talk about a Meltzer Driver!!!"


uuhhhhmmm….Uuuuhhhhh….. soooo…. Matt’s
Wife is 3 stars and uhhhhhhhj Nicks wife is 5 stars because i uuuuhhh did her in ‘the tokyo dome’

….. yes….. that’s uhhhhh what i call her butt


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> You mean like in 96 when Benoit was feuding with Kevin Sullivan? Love angles and all that aren't just a Vince thing. And you don't have to revolve the entire show around it. But having things that encourage female viewers to tune in isn't a bad idea if you want to grow the product. Are you going to not watch the show just because 15 minutes of it has to do with an affair?


I’m talking about you Attitude fans who LIVED AND BREATHED on the Jerry Springer stuff in EVERY SEGMENT. 

Female fans are not going to tune in to a 2-hour show just to hopefully catch the 15 minute segment of Jerry Springer television that the fans of Raw is War enjoyed.


----------



## DaSlacker

IMO wrestling morphed into sports entertainment in approximately 1984. WWE went down that hole first, then JCP/WCW and AWA gradually did by the end of the decade. WCW had a more sports feel than WWE, but it still had zany shit like Robocop, Oz and Dungeon of Doom. 

TNA was the heir to WCW, but overdid the gimmick and multi person matches and was too low budget. AEW is the heir to TNA, but has a higher budget and is a bit more reserved in that way. 

Acting more like WWE won't bring higher viewership. They need to keep plugging away at what they do. Rome wasn't built in a day and chasing after a bunch of old farts who are stuck in their ways is a bad idea. Keep building the brand and retain the younger audience.


----------



## Erik.

Time for the true ratings draw RIHO to return. 

Nah, for real. Stable number. Can't wait to see what it'll be like over the next few weeks as we get debuts and All Out build.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> I’m talking about you Attitude fans who LIVED AND BREATHED on the Jerry Springer stuff in EVERY SEGMENT.
> 
> Female fans are not going to tune in to a 2-hour show just to hopefully catch the 15 minute segment of Jerry Springer television that the fans of Raw is War enjoyed.


You say that, but your beloved WCW did these things as well. Wrestling has had love angles and trashy things for a while now. Also you never know what folk will get into with a little opener. Maybe some love angle or more woman friendly segment is what gets a female into the door and then something else catches their eye and they become a fan.


----------



## .christopher.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> uuhhhhmmm….Uuuuhhhhh….. soooo…. Matt’s
> Wife is 3 stars and uhhhhhhhj Nicks wife is 5 stars because i uuuuhhh did her in ‘the tokyo dome’
> 
> ….. yes….. that’s uhhhhh what i call her butt


The star rating system has come full circle! Now we just need a random celebrity thrown in and the fanbase for the real wives of Atlanta won't know what's hit 'em!


----------



## A PG Attitude

As a guy who watched WWE for thirty years... how is Raw drawing a bigger audience than dynamite?! I haven't enjoyed wrestling this much since 2000.


----------



## thorn123

Honestly how can that show not be above 1 million ... seriously. It should be at least 1.5 million considering what else is rating on tv (and not just wrestling promotions) ... oh well, as long as they stay on the air and we can talk about how good it is with our bretheren.


----------



## Chan Hung

A PG Attitude said:


> As a guy who watched WWE for thirty years... how is Raw drawing a bigger audience than dynamite?! I haven't enjoyed wrestling this much since 2000.


Habit and Brand Recognition.


----------



## NXT Only

A PG Attitude said:


> As a guy who watched WWE for thirty years... how is Raw drawing a bigger audience than dynamite?! I haven't enjoyed wrestling this much since 2000.


Brand recognition, kids, older people.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Going out of business confirmed 😒


----------



## RapShepard

A PG Attitude said:


> As a guy who watched WWE for thirty years... how is Raw drawing a bigger audience than dynamite?! I haven't enjoyed wrestling this much since 2000.


Because they produce a show that more people enjoy . Always remember the hardcore bubble ain't that big.


----------



## Britz94xD

My dad is in his 60s and he watches AEW over WWE mainly because it's on ITV4 here.

He recognised guys like Jericho, Christian, Matt Hardy, Sting, Jim Ross etc and was hooked. WWE better be careful if they think they have the 50+ demo all sewn up.


----------



## Randy Lahey

975 will be the lowest they do from here on out. The Afganistan situation has caused cable news to skyrocket but I bet that dies down by next week


----------



## Mister Sinister

975k... don't even open the show with mention of the title change from Rampage, total loss of the heat from Black's attack on Cody, open with jobbers, intermission for Young Buck circus match and end with MJF-rated (the guy is the new definition of go-away heat). They don't understand continuity, follow-up, draw power or how to consistently assemble/time a card.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Mister Sinister said:


> 975k... don't even open the show with mention of the title change from Rampage, total loss of the heat from Black's attack on Cody, open with jobbers, intermission for Young Buck circus match and end with MJF-rated (the guy is the new definition of go-away heat). They don't understand continuity, follow-up, draw power or how to consistently assemble/time a card.


Come on man that first hour was incredible!


----------



## Not Lying

A PG Attitude said:


> As a guy who watched WWE for thirty years... how is Raw drawing a bigger audience than dynamite?! I haven't enjoyed wrestling this much since 2000.


Brand reputation.


----------



## 3venflow

Brock Anderson = ratings


----------



## rbl85

Jericho gained viewers with every labor that he had to do in the previous weeks but this time his match lost viewers....

Maybe people are not that interested in MJF than what a lot of you think.


----------



## Erik.

A PG Attitude said:


> As a guy who watched WWE for thirty years... how is Raw drawing a bigger audience than dynamite?! I haven't enjoyed wrestling this much since 2000.


Part of the answer is in your own question. About the 8th and 9th words in. 

Thirty years. 

They've had fans for decades. To some it's all they know. To some it's a habit. Majority are institutionalised. 

Anyone who watches wrestling in 2021 know two things:

1. Dynamite shits all over Raw. 
2. Ratings do not determine what is good.


----------



## elo

Quarterlies are so weird, the key demo dropping over 10% of it's audience after 15 mins needs a bit of an investigation.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

3venflow said:


> Brock Anderson = ratings
> 
> View attachment 106593


God blessing Miro again with his ability to make quarters the highest two shows in a row (and blessed him with his hot wife).


----------



## Prized Fighter

Every week the same thing is true. AEW needs to grow their female audience to stay over 1 million. The Challenge takes those viewers every week. Rosa vs Ford is the only segment to stay over 1 million and it gained viewers. Right now, Britt and Rosa are the draws of that division, but if they can flesh it out more, they will find that sweet spot. Punk/Bryan/Flair coming in should keep them over 1 million, but adding to the women could get them to 1.1 more consistently.


----------



## rbl85

Prized Fighter said:


> Every week the same thing is true. AEW needs to grow their female audience to stay over 1 million. The Challenge takes those viewers every week. Rosa vs Ford is the only segment to stay over 1 million and it gained viewers. Right now, Britt and Rosa are the draws of that division, but if they can flesh it out more, they will find that sweet spot. Punk/Bryan/Flair coming in should keep them over 1 million, but adding to the women could get them to 1.1 more consistently.


You know that other things we're on other than the Rosa/Ford match right ?


----------



## Prized Fighter

rbl85 said:


> You know that other things we're on other than the Rosa/Ford match right ?


Obviously I do. They were only a portion of those segments, but they were also the only thing to show up in both quarters. The actual demo ratings are my actual proof. The women's demo is AEW's weakest area and they need to improve it if they want to grow the audience to 1.1M or above. You can only do that in two ways. Either they start doing hokey relationship BS angles or they improve their women's division. The former would actually bring in more viewers then the latter, but would ruin the overall product. The latter would add to the rest of the product while adding some growth.


----------



## rbl85

Prized Fighter said:


> Obviously I do. They were only a portion of those segments, *but they were also the only thing to show up in both quarters. T*he actual demo ratings are my actual proof. The women's demo is AEW's weakest area and they need to improve it if they want to grow the audience to 1.1M or above. You can only do that in two ways. Either they start doing hokey relationship BS angles or they improve their women's division. The former would actually bring in more viewers then the latter, but would ruin the overall product. The latter would add to the rest of the product while adding some growth.


Hey they were only on for 1min in Q7.


----------



## Erik.

850,000 - 900,000 for Rampage
1,100,000 - 1,250,000 for Dynamite

This week out of curiosity, in my view.

170k buys for All Out.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> Brock Anderson = ratings
> 
> View attachment 106593


*No surprise that Britt Baker started bringing back viewers after yet another redundant Young Bucks tag match. Can't believe people try to convince us it's not one of the low points of the show week after week.*


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *No surprise that Britt Baker started bringing back viewers after yet another redundant Young Bucks tag match. Can't believe people try to convince us it's not one of the low points of the show week after week.*


Except that it wasn’t the “low point” of the week though (once again) 😂 

The Young Bucks held up the viewership just fine this week in their tag match against Jurassic Express. 

Your extreme bias/hatred towards them is obvious. It’s baffling how you continue to use these numbers in a way to twist your bad narrative about names you dislike. 

I’m not even surprised that you conveniently ignore Jon Moxley doing really well this week in both segments (or even the Elite’s interview being part of the highest quarter here).


----------



## Mister Sinister

The women deliver ratings. Ford has bumped the ratings on multiple occasions for AEW going back to her Shida match.
Every week should have two women's matches. They signed Kiera, they need to sign Tessa and steal Charlotte, and then they will have the best women's division in wrestling.
As expected, this was the least watched labor of Jericho. MJF should not have won. The audience legitimately doesn't like his act.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Mister Sinister said:


> The women deliver ratings. Ford has bumped the ratings on multiple occasions for AEW going back to her Shida match.
> Every week should have two women's matches. They signed Kiera, they need to sign Tessa and steal Charlotte, and then they will have the best women's division in wrestling.
> As expected, this was the least watched labor of Jericho. MJF should not have won. The audience legitimately doesn't like his act.


personally i think Charlotte is a lock to make the jump as soon as she can


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

So I put something together that I’ll share here for the heck of it. Basically I wanted to dig through the quarter hour data we have so far and put together who’s actually drawing/not drawing. The system I used had the following rules:

1) Used the numbers from the quarterly breakdowns from July 14th-August 11th for Dynamite episodes only (no Rampage or the numbers that just came out for Dynamite this week).

2) Gather the best/worst quarters 1-8, for each respective quarter taking into account all shows (so for example which episode had the best quarter 1 among the 5 episodes, worst quarter 1, and so on so fourth).. Then I gathered the best/worst loses quarter-quarter across all shows. Finally get the best and worst quarters for each individual show.

3) Figure out who was in each quarter competing or part of segment, and split points/negative among them. Points were given to the best from the previous paragraph, and negative points given to the worst of each.

4) Number of points (or negative points) given depended on how good each quarter performed in relation to the other quarters. For example, 20 points were given to the highest viewed quarter among the best quarters gathered per above. -20 points were given to the lowest viewed quarter among the worst quarters. 2nd place in these respectively were given 15/-15 points, 3rd 10/-10, 4th 5/-5, and 5th 4/-4, 6th 3/-3, 7th 2/-2, and 8th 1/-1. This same system is then used for best/worst gainers, and best/worst quarters of each show.

5) Those points/negative points in each quarter are then divided up among the contributors to that quarter. I used the breakdowns given in the quarterlies posted here to see who was in each quarter. I only used my judgement in regards to not giving points to managers, unless they were a big part of the segment. But otherwise everyone listed in the quarter was accounted for. So for example, say Jon Moxley vs. Lance Archer was the highest viewed quarter of the last 5 shows (which FYI it wasn’t actually). The two of them would each get 10 points. But if the 10-man tag between Elite and Hangman/Dark Order was the highest (again, just as an example), each participant would only get 2 points each (20/10=2). 

6) For the list below, I only used wrestlers that were given points/negative points at least 5 times. For example if someone like Marko Stunt wrestles Kenny Omega, in the highest quarter of the weeks, and got 10 points, he wouldn’t be among the highest draws because of just one good segment (actually he’d get 20 points because he’d get 10 for highest quarter over the weeks, and 10 points for being in the highest viewed quarter for the respective show he was on). That’s why I made it a rule that 5 scores are needed either positive or negative to be put in the list below. Anyone else just doesn’t have enough there to assess close to accurately imo.

So with my crazy convoluted and maybe hard to follow guidelines out there, 13 spots were taken among 19 wrestlers (this is due to a few ties).
Here’s how it went:

1) Chris Jericho
2) MJF
3) Adam Page
4) Jon Moxley
5) Wardlow
6) Kenny Omega
7) Young Bucks+Gallows and Anderson+Nyla Rose
8) Britt Baker
9) Santana+Ortiz
10) FTR
11) Brian Cage+Ricky Starks
12) Andrade
13) Darby Allin

Now before anyone gets upset and tells me this list is BS, I’m going to save your time and tell you why this list indeed BS (though I prefer the word “flawed”), and should not be used in legitimate arguments for who draws/doesn’t.

1) The list doesn’t take into account things besides best/worst. All the quarters in between that wrestlers may have helped prop up, wouldn’t be a factor here. If someone like Darby cuts a promo every week in quarter 2, and is consistently in that spot and always is the second highest viewed number every single week. Well, he wouldn’t rank on the list above because he wouldn’t have any points. 

Why didn’t I take into account every quarter from every show? Every gain and loss? Because to do so would require ranking/scoring and keeping track of every single wrestler who competes/is involved in a promo and it would take WAAAY longer to do accurately than I’m willing to do in my spare time.

2) Every person in a quarter gets an even amount of the total points divided up to them. There’s a two-fold problem with this: 

One is that certain wrestlers are, based on history, are bigger draws than their opponent. So they should in theory get the bigger number of points. 

Two is that not every wrestler is in the quarter for the same amount of time. So those that are in a quarter for 1 minute/for a video package/entrance would get the same points as someone who was in it for 14+ minutes using my system. 

Now why didn’t I figure all this out to give accurate points to wrestlers? Because determining the bigger draw may be incredibly obvious in some situations, but not in others. So without looking at data and history (which I don’t have access to since afaik quarterly numbers were only given so far back), I figure it’s best to just remove as judgement on my end as possible, and divide things up among everyone who had some part in the quarter. 

The minutes thing for each quarter though I could access by watching the shows back and timing everything... but that would make this a far bigger project time-wise than I’m willing to put in. So yeah... points just distributed evenly for better or worse.
(Which for anyone curious, is a big reason Darby ranked so low).

3) This doesn’t take into account advertised stuff vs surprises. For example with this system if Black’s debut did the highest quarter, he’d get a part of those points. However, should he? Since no one knew he’d be there? Especially since he was only on a couple of minutes. This is where I just gave a blanket “yes” to if they’re a wrestler, or a manager that had a significant part.

4) The arbitrary parts of this I had to decide things on. Like how many scores a wrestler would need to have to be ranked. Like Fenix and Penta would’ve been tied for 4th on this list, but they only had two scores on here, so that didn’t qualify them. Also just the number of points for each placing could be changed and that could completely change how the ranking looks. I could’ve just done 8 points for 1st, 7 for 2nd, etc. In hindsight probably would’ve been a better idea than what I went with, and I may adjust it to that at some point.

5) These are quarter numbers, not minute by minute. Minute by minute would be way more accurate if we had that.

So those are the big issues with the system I used to rank those wrestlers. This definitely shouldn’t be used in any serious arguments/discussions regarding who draws and who doesn’t...

... but for meme arguments/trolling? Go crazy.

Edit: A couple of fun facts. 

Jericho’s score destroyed everyone else’s and it wasn’t even close. 

Adam Page is the only one who had no negative points.

Edit 2: 

Also, average quarter hour viewership between the 5 shows used:

Q1 - 1,061,400
Q2 - 1,063,400
Q3 - 1,101,800 (Highest)
Q4 - 1,067,600
Q5 - 1,070,000
Q6 - 1,074,400
Q7 - 1,044,000 (Lowest)
Q8 - 1,098,000


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

#BadNewsSanta said:


> So I put something together that I’ll share here for the heck of it. Basically I wanted to dig through the quarter hour data we have so far and put together who’s actually drawing/not drawing. The system I used had the following rules:
> 
> 1) Used the numbers from the quarterly breakdowns from July 14th-August 11th for Dynamite episodes only (no Rampage or the numbers that just came out for Dynamite this week).
> 
> 2) Gather the best/worst quarters 1-8, for each respective quarter taking into account all shows (so for example which episode had the best quarter 1 among the 5 episodes, worst quarter 1, and so on so fourth).. Then I gathered the best/worst loses quarter-quarter across all shows. Finally get the best and worst quarters for each individual show.
> 
> 3) Figure out who was in each quarter competing or part of segment, and split points/negative among them. Points were given to the best from the previous paragraph, and negative points given to the worst of each.
> 
> 4) Number of points (or negative points) given depended on how good each quarter performed in relation to the other quarters. For example, 20 points were given to the highest viewed quarter among the best quarters gathered per above. -20 points were given to the lowest viewed quarter among the worst quarters. 2nd place in these respectively were given 15/-15 points, 3rd 10/-10, 4th 5/-5, and 5th 4/-4, 6th 3/-3, 7th 2/-2, and 8th 1/-1. This same system is then used for best/worst gainers, and best/worst quarters of each show.
> 
> 5) Those points/negative points in each quarter are then divided up among the contributors to that quarter. I used the breakdowns given in the quarterlies posted here to see who was in each quarter. I only used my judgement in regards to not giving points to managers, unless they were a big part of the segment. But otherwise everyone listed in the quarter was accounted for. So for example, say Jon Moxley vs. Lance Archer was the highest viewed quarter of the last 5 shows (which FYI it wasn’t actually). The two of them would each get 10 points. But if the 10-man tag between Elite and Hangman/Dark Order was the highest (again, just as an example), each participant would only get 2 points each (20/10=2).
> 
> 6) For the list below, I only used wrestlers that were given points/negative points at least 5 times. For example if someone like Marko Stunt wrestles Kenny Omega, in the highest quarter of the weeks, and got 10 points, he wouldn’t be among the highest draws because of just one good segment (actually he’d get 20 points because he’d get 10 for highest quarter over the weeks, and 10 points for being in the highest viewed quarter for the respective show he was on). That’s why I made it a rule that 5 scores are needed either positive or negative to be put in the list below. Anyone else just doesn’t have enough there to assess close to accurately imo.
> 
> So with my crazy convoluted and maybe hard to follow guidelines out there, 13 spots were taken among 19 wrestlers (this is due to a few ties).
> Here’s how it went:
> 
> 1) Chris Jericho
> 2) MJF
> 3) Adam Page
> 4) Jon Moxley
> 5) Wardlow
> 6) Kenny Omega
> 7) Young Bucks+Gallows and Anderson+Nyla Rose
> 8) Britt Baker
> 9) Santana+Ortiz
> 10) FTR
> 11) Brian Cage+Ricky Starks
> 12) Andrade
> 13) Darby Allin
> 
> Now before anyone gets upset and tells me this list is BS, I’m going to save your time and tell you why this list indeed BS (though I prefer the word “flawed”), and should not be used in legitimate arguments for who draws/doesn’t.
> 
> 1) The list doesn’t take into account things besides best/worst. All the quarters in between that wrestlers may have helped prop up, wouldn’t be a factor here. If someone like Darby cuts a promo every week in quarter 2, and is consistently in that spot and always is the second highest viewed number every single week. Well, he wouldn’t rank on the list above because he wouldn’t have any points.
> 
> Why didn’t I take into account every quarter from every show? Every gain and loss? Because to do so would require ranking/scoring and keeping track of every single wrestler who competes/is involved in a promo and it would take WAAAY longer to do accurately than I’m willing to do in my spare time.
> 
> 2) Every person in a quarter gets an even amount of the total points divided up to them. There’s a two-fold problem with this:
> 
> One is that certain wrestlers are, based on history, are bigger draws than their opponent. So they should in theory get the bigger number of points.
> 
> Two is that not every wrestler is in the quarter for the same amount of time. So those that are in a quarter for 1 minute/for a video package/entrance would get the same points as someone who was in it for 14+ minutes using my system.
> 
> Now why didn’t I figure all this out to give accurate points to wrestlers? Because determining the bigger draw may be incredibly obvious in some situations, but not in others. So without looking at data and history (which I don’t have access to since afaik quarterly numbers were only given so far back), I figure it’s best to just remove as judgement on my end as possible, and divide things up among everyone who had some part in the quarter.
> 
> The minutes thing for each quarter though I could access by watching the shows back and timing everything... but that would make this a far bigger project time-wise than I’m willing to put in. So yeah... points just distributed evenly for better or worse.
> (Which for anyone curious, is a big reason Darby ranked so low).
> 
> 3) This doesn’t take into account advertised stuff vs surprises. For example with this system if Black’s debut did the highest quarter, he’d get a part of those points. However, should he? Since no one knew he’d be there? Especially since he was only on a couple of minutes. This is where I just gave a blanket “yes” to if they’re a wrestler, or a manager that had a significant part.
> 
> 4) The arbitrary parts of this I had to decide things on. Like how many scores a wrestler would need to have to be ranked. Like Fenix and Penta would’ve been tied for 4th on this list, but they only had two scores on here, so that didn’t qualify them. Also just the number of points for each placing could be changed and that could completely change how the ranking looks. I could’ve just done 8 points for 1st, 7 for 2nd, etc. In hindsight probably would’ve been a better idea than what I went with, and I may adjust it to that at some point.
> 
> 5) These are quarter numbers, not minute by minute. Minute by minute would be way more accurate if we had that.
> 
> So those are the big issues with the system I used to rank those wrestlers. This definitely shouldn’t be used in any serious arguments/discussions regarding who draws and who doesn’t...
> 
> ... but for meme arguments/trolling? Go crazy.


…. Dude

amazing - and while flawed, i would expect it to follow the realistic line - a consistent error if you will


----------



## Prosper

#BadNewsSanta said:


> So I put something together that I’ll share here for the heck of it. Basically I wanted to dig through the quarter hour data we have so far and put together who’s actually drawing/not drawing. The system I used had the following rules:
> 
> 1) Used the numbers from the quarterly breakdowns from July 14th-August 11th for Dynamite episodes only (no Rampage or the numbers that just came out for Dynamite this week).
> 
> 2) Gather the best/worst quarters 1-8, for each respective quarter taking into account all shows (so for example which episode had the best quarter 1 among the 5 episodes, worst quarter 1, and so on so fourth).. Then I gathered the best/worst loses quarter-quarter across all shows. Finally get the best and worst quarters for each individual show.
> 
> 3) Figure out who was in each quarter competing or part of segment, and split points/negative among them. Points were given to the best from the previous paragraph, and negative points given to the worst of each.
> 
> 4) Number of points (or negative points) given depended on how good each quarter performed in relation to the other quarters. For example, 20 points were given to the highest viewed quarter among the best quarters gathered per above. -20 points were given to the lowest viewed quarter among the worst quarters. 2nd place in these respectively were given 15/-15 points, 3rd 10/-10, 4th 5/-5, and 5th 4/-4, 6th 3/-3, 7th 2/-2, and 8th 1/-1. This same system is then used for best/worst gainers, and best/worst quarters of each show.
> 
> 5) Those points/negative points in each quarter are then divided up among the contributors to that quarter. I used the breakdowns given in the quarterlies posted here to see who was in each quarter. I only used my judgement in regards to not giving points to managers, unless they were a big part of the segment. But otherwise everyone listed in the quarter was accounted for. So for example, say Jon Moxley vs. Lance Archer was the highest viewed quarter of the last 5 shows (which FYI it wasn’t actually). The two of them would each get 10 points. But if the 10-man tag between Elite and Hangman/Dark Order was the highest (again, just as an example), each participant would only get 2 points each (20/10=2).
> 
> 6) For the list below, I only used wrestlers that were given points/negative points at least 5 times. For example if someone like Marko Stunt wrestles Kenny Omega, in the highest quarter of the weeks, and got 10 points, he wouldn’t be among the highest draws because of just one good segment (actually he’d get 20 points because he’d get 10 for highest quarter over the weeks, and 10 points for being in the highest viewed quarter for the respective show he was on). That’s why I made it a rule that 5 scores are needed either positive or negative to be put in the list below. Anyone else just doesn’t have enough there to assess close to accurately imo.
> 
> So with my crazy convoluted and maybe hard to follow guidelines out there, 13 spots were taken among 19 wrestlers (this is due to a few ties).
> Here’s how it went:
> 
> 1) Chris Jericho
> 2) MJF
> 3) Adam Page
> 4) Jon Moxley
> 5) Wardlow
> 6) Kenny Omega
> 7) Young Bucks+Gallows and Anderson+Nyla Rose
> 8) Britt Baker
> 9) Santana+Ortiz
> 10) FTR
> 11) Brian Cage+Ricky Starks
> 12) Andrade
> 13) Darby Allin
> 
> Now before anyone gets upset and tells me this list is BS, I’m going to save your time and tell you why this list indeed BS (though I prefer the word “flawed”), and should not be used in legitimate arguments for who draws/doesn’t.
> 
> 1) The list doesn’t take into account things besides best/worst. All the quarters in between that wrestlers may have helped prop up, wouldn’t be a factor here. If someone like Darby cuts a promo every week in quarter 2, and is consistently in that spot and always is the second highest viewed number every single week. Well, he wouldn’t rank on the list above because he wouldn’t have any points.
> 
> Why didn’t I take into account every quarter from every show? Every gain and loss? Because to do so would require ranking/scoring and keeping track of every single wrestler who competes/is involved in a promo and it would take WAAAY longer to do accurately than I’m willing to do in my spare time.
> 
> 2) Every person in a quarter gets an even amount of the total points divided up to them. There’s a two-fold problem with this:
> 
> One is that certain wrestlers are, based on history, are bigger draws than their opponent. So they should in theory get the bigger number of points.
> 
> Two is that not every wrestler is in the quarter for the same amount of time. So those that are in a quarter for 1 minute/for a video package/entrance would get the same points as someone who was in it for 14+ minutes using my system.
> 
> Now why didn’t I figure all this out to give accurate points to wrestlers? Because determining the bigger draw may be incredibly obvious in some situations, but not in others. So without looking at data and history (which I don’t have access to since afaik quarterly numbers were only given so far back), I figure it’s best to just remove as judgement on my end as possible, and divide things up among everyone who had some part in the quarter.
> 
> The minutes thing for each quarter though I could access by watching the shows back and timing everything... but that would make this a far bigger project time-wise than I’m willing to put in. So yeah... points just distributed evenly for better or worse.
> (Which for anyone curious, is a big reason Darby ranked so low).
> 
> 3) This doesn’t take into account advertised stuff vs surprises. For example with this system if Black’s debut did the highest quarter, he’d get a part of those points. However, should he? Since no one knew he’d be there? Especially since he was only on a couple of minutes. This is where I just gave a blanket “yes” to if they’re a wrestler, or a manager that had a significant part.
> 
> 4) The arbitrary parts of this I had to decide things on. Like how many scores a wrestler would need to have to be ranked. Like Fenix and Penta would’ve been tied for 4th on this list, but they only had two scores on here, so that didn’t qualify them. Also just the number of points for each placing could be changed and that could completely change how the ranking looks. I could’ve just done 8 points for 1st, 7 for 2nd, etc. In hindsight probably would’ve been a better idea than what I went with, and I may adjust it to that at some point.
> 
> 5) These are quarter numbers, not minute by minute. Minute by minute would be way more accurate if we had that.
> 
> So those are the big issues with the system I used to rank those wrestlers. This definitely shouldn’t be used in any serious arguments/discussions regarding who draws and who doesn’t...
> 
> ... but for meme arguments/trolling? Go crazy.
> 
> Edit: A couple of fun facts.
> 
> Jericho’s score destroyed everyone else’s and it wasn’t even close.
> 
> Adam Page is the only one who had no negative points.
> 
> Edit 2:
> 
> Also, average quarter hour viewership between the 5 shows used:
> 
> Q1 - 1,061,400
> Q2 - 1,063,400
> Q3 - 1,101,800 (Highest)
> Q4 - 1,067,600
> Q5 - 1,070,000
> Q6 - 1,074,400
> Q7 - 1,044,000 (Lowest)
> Q8 - 1,098,000


Interesting write up.


----------



## yeahright2

Once again the Bucks lose viewers.. Not surprised


----------



## DammitChrist

yeahright2 said:


> Once again the Bucks lose viewers.. Not surprised


Except the Young Bucks actually held up and MAINTAINED viewers this week 😂 

Seriously, using the ratings to attack them (or to pretend that they’re “killing” viewership) is beyond played out at this point.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> Once again the Bucks lose viewers.. Not surprised


whaaaap whaaaaaap whaaaaaaappppp


----------



## yeahright2

DammitChrist said:


> Except the Young Bucks actually held up and MAINTAINED viewers this week 😂
> 
> Seriously, using the ratings to attack them (or to pretend that they’re “killing” viewership) is beyond played out at this point.


Except they DIDN`T in that demo everyone think is so important.
You can´t use the demo when it fit your narrative, and dismiss it when it doesn´t.


----------



## rbl85

MJF sucks so much he lost viewers.


----------



## DammitChrist

yeahright2 said:


> Except they DIDN`T in that demo everyone think is so important.
> You can´t use the demo when it fit your narrative, and dismiss it when it doesn´t.


They’re both important, and they STILL held up the overall viewership well in spite of the resentment they get on here.


----------



## yeahright2

DammitChrist said:


> They’re both important, and they STILL held up the overall viewership well in spite of the resentment they get on here.


How is going from 442 to 416 holding up anything? That´s a drop. Not as big a drop as Spears, but it dropped to the lowest of the entire night.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Making calls on quarters is iffy

i would not call somebody a draw or losing viewers unless i had minute by minute over a couple of weeks

ad breaks, segments, starts and finishes - everything has so much to do with the quarter ratings


----------



## DammitChrist

yeahright2 said:


> How is going from 442 to 416 holding up anything? That´s a drop. Not as big a drop as Spears, but it dropped to the lowest of the entire night.


Did you miss the part where I was referring to the total viewership this whole time?

My point about the Young Bucks still stands.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

My question is why are they keeping the fucking hot chicks all on Dark? Put Tay Conti on Dynamite every week and you're gonna skyrocket that teen male demo.


----------



## Martyn

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1428872931313135618
Full house.


----------



## Not Lying

3venflow said:


> Brock Anderson = ratings
> 
> View attachment 106593


Usually Q7 is the lowest rated quarter, this time it's weird how it's the highest.



Martyn said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1428872931313135618
> Full house.


IT'S HAPPENING.


----------



## Prized Fighter

Duplicate post


----------



## omaroo

Martyn said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1428872931313135618
> Full house.


Amazing crowd who will blow the roof of the place.


----------



## Erik.

Erik. said:


> 850,000 - 900,000 for Rampage
> 1,100,000 - 1,250,000 for Dynamite
> 
> This week out of curiosity, in my view.
> 
> 170k buys for All Out.


Still sticking by this.

Anything more than 900,000 or even over a million would be a fucking miracle in 2021.


----------



## ElTerrible

3venflow said:


> Brock Anderson = ratings


Lesnar was never a draw. His first name was.


----------



## BroncoBuster3

rbl85 said:


> Jericho gained viewers with every labor that he had to do in the previous weeks but this time his match lost viewers....
> 
> Maybe people are not that interested in MJF than what a lot of you think.


As a massive MJF fan he is stale and I can't see him changing anything up dramatically. His heat has become a bit cheap


----------



## Chip Chipperson

AEW Rampage will do over a million for the first 20 minutes and then sharply fall.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Time to see if Punk is this big ratings draw bringing back the lApSed fAnS. I imagine the rating will be big for his segment and then divebomb after.

The question is whether he's a consistent ratings bump or he's a flash in the pan.


----------



## Erik.

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Time to see if Punk is this big ratings draw bringing back the lApSed fAnS. I imagine the rating will be big for his segment and then divebomb after.
> 
> The question is whether he's a consistent ratings bump or he's a flash in the pan.


I guess that depends on _*your*_ expectations of what a ratings draw is in 2021.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Its not just about tv ratingz or the perfect booked show

this shits longterm strategy


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1428947058187292675


----------



## Prized Fighter

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1428947888894214145


----------



## THANOS

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1428947888894214145
Now THIS is a draw, any way you slice it


----------



## TheDraw

They better strike big now. I find it hard to believe that the WWE is untouchable considering how hot garbage their shows are. Like literally watching a play only with worse acting.


----------



## Lesnar Turtle

Just had a quick check and it seems that was the largest live crowd for a none-WWE show in America since an episode of Nitro around Xmas 1999. Crazy.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lesnar Turtle said:


> Just had a quick check and it seems that was the largest live crowd for a none-WWE show in America since an episode of Nitro around Xmas 1999. Crazy.


and arthur ashe will be 20k

madness


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

One thing I will say is that I feel a little bad for the people who paid hundreds of dollars for tickets when they could have gotten them for like 5 bucks over the last few days from scalpers, quite a lot of cheap tickets I would have taken in a heartbeat.


----------



## Erik.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> and arthur ashe will be 20k
> 
> madness


Only two wrestling television events (outside WWE) in the last 23 years will have had more in attendance than that.


----------



## Geert Wilders

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> One thing I will say is that I feel a little bad for the people who paid hundreds of dollars for tickets when they could have gotten them for like 5 bucks over the last few days from scalpers, quite a lot of cheap tickets I would have taken in a heartbeat.


Agreed, but at the same time I don’t feel bad for the scalpers.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Geert Wilders said:


> Agreed, but at the same time I don’t feel bad for the scalpers.


Oh for sure, but then again I'm not gonna be one to say no to $5 wrestling tickets.


----------



## Bubbly2

Thinking about it, I'm surprised they went from CM Punk to Private Party. Wonder how many new people turned off?


----------



## Erik.

Bubbly2 said:


> Thinking about it, I'm surprised they went from CM Punk to Private Party. Wonder how many new people turned off?


There would have been people who were tuning in for Punk only regardless.

And the majority who did would no doubt have illegally streamed anyway.

Either way, they missed an entertaining match.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

1.4m youtube views on his entrance, 1.5m on his promo

these 2 vids + the media scrum is all aew have uploaded

will most likely become their biggest vids


----------



## RapShepard

We know who won the socials last night, now who won the ratings


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> We know who won the socials last night, now who won the ratings


dang - thats a spicy meatball


----------



## Martyn

I dont think it will draw well past first 2 quarters. The return was great, but the rest of the show looked like a Dark taping. 

850k total would be a great number.


----------



## omaroo

Ye rating was I expect it to be around 800k-850k

Was an average show no doubt. It was all about punk and nothing wrong about that.

Hope we have much more consistent strong cards on Rampage which they have to do if they want decent ratings on Fridays/


----------



## PavelGaborik

800k is my prediction.

807k to be exact


----------



## Not Lying

Last night's show featured young talent AEW wanted to highlight with Punk's return, not the best strategy to take advantage for one night big rating but not bad as this show surely got more eyes on PP, JE, Jade and Garcia. A bunch of young talents got exposure from appearing on the same episode as Punk's return.


----------



## Joe Gill

I think the first 20 minutes of rampage will break AEWs record.... 1.5 million viewers... but that number will drop to 1 milion by end of show. Next week Rampage will do 700k viewers.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 1.4m youtube views on his entrance, 1.5m on his promo
> 
> these 2 vids + the media scrum is all aew have uploaded
> 
> will most likely become their biggest vids


*4.2 mil on Twitter as of when I woke up this morning, so it's probably closer to 6 right now.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *4.2 mil on Twitter as of when I woke up this morning, so it's probably closer to 6 right now.*


crazy


----------



## DaSlacker

Hulk Hogan's debut in WCW didn't do much for their viewership in 1994 (it was overshadowed by the OJ chase) . Neither did Macho Man. Monday Night Raw was regularly in the top 15 cable most watched shows during the 1993-1994 and 1994-1995 seasons. It even popped some of their best cable numbers in the heavily criticised 1995. WCW appeared in them... 3 times. But those signings are considered key points in Vince McMahon being given serious competition. 

Moral of the story: there is more to gaining traction than the number of people watching your broadcasts every week.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DaSlacker said:


> Hulk Hogan's debut in WCW didn't do much for their viewership in 1994 (it was overshadowed by the OJ chase) . Neither did Macho Man. Monday Night Raw was regularly in the top 15 cable most watched shows during the 1993-1994 and 1994-1995 seasons. It even popped some of their best cable numbers in the heavily criticised 1995. WCW appeared in them... 3 times. But those signings are considered key points in Vince McMahon being given serious competition.
> 
> Moral of the story: there is more to gaining traction than the number of people watching your broadcasts every week.


Hogan's debut took WCW from a 2.1 to a 2.4...


----------



## DaSlacker

Chip Chipperson said:


> Hogan's debut took WCW from a 2.1 to a 2.4...


When you convert the cable percentages into households - they didn't really report them as viewers back then - you're talking quite marginal numbers. For example, Raw would regularly hit 3.0 or 1.8 million households. Despite being on autopilot for much of '94 as the McMahons were burnt out from the legal issues. A 2.4 for WCW would equal about 1.4 million households. A 2.1 was 1.2 million homes. WCW had hit the 3.0 a few times the previous season with Sting, Sid, Davey Boy and Vader. What Hogan did do was bring in new licensing partners and sponsors.


----------



## Klitschko

Any ratings for Rampage yet?


----------



## Prized Fighter

Klitschko said:


> Any ratings for Rampage yet?


Not until Monday


----------



## elo

Klitschko said:


> Any ratings for Rampage yet?


The guy in your profile pic will probably have prelim numbers into certain local markets and announce them during WOR, national figures not before Monday.


----------



## zkorejo

850,000 for Rampage sounds plausible. I will also go


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

elo said:


> The guy in your profile pic will probably have prelim numbers into certain local markets and announce them during WOR, national figures not before Monday.


its good to see fans of Dave display it proud


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

DaSlacker said:


> When you convert the cable percentages into households - they didn't really report them as viewers back then - you're talking quite marginal numbers. For example, Raw would regularly hit 3.0 or 1.8 million households. Despite being on autopilot for much of '94 as the McMahons were burnt out from the legal issues. A 2.4 for WCW would equal about 1.4 million households. A 2.1 was 1.2 million homes. WCW had hit the 3.0 a few times the previous season with Sting, Sid, Davey Boy and Vader. What Hogan did do was bring in new licensing partners and sponsors.


I'm not sure that you can call adding 200k homes to 1.2 million "marginal" that's an 18.5% increase plus the expanded reach in advertisers, licensing that came with Hogan. I think if we're establishing that 18.5% is considered a "marginal" increase we need to seriously reconsider our definition of the word


----------



## elo

Dave's exact words on WOR just recorded;

"Based on the top ten markets looks exceptional" (talking about AEW Rampage TV rating)

He provided no numbers.

EDIT: He provided estimates at the end of WOR - up ~57% in top ten markets from last week, if consistent nationally it will be 1 to 1.1 million for Rampage this week. Number could be skewed due to insane number in Chicago for first quarter.


----------



## A PG Attitude

elo said:


> Dave's exact words on WOR just recorded;
> 
> "Based on the top ten markets looks exceptional" (talking about AEW Rampage TV rating)
> 
> He provided no numbers.


That has to be over a million.


----------



## Randy Lahey

I predict this week’s Dynamite to be the highest rating they’ve ever done. 1.3-1.5 mils with a demo that beats Raw.

There’s so many casuals talking CM Punk you’re going to get an influx of new viewers.


----------



## Mr316

rbl85 said:


> Jericho gained viewers with every labor that he had to do in the previous weeks but this time his match lost viewers....
> 
> Maybe people are not that interested in MJF than what a lot of you think.


I keep saying it. I don’t dislike MJF but he’s not a main event level star.


----------



## rbl85

Mr316 said:


> I keep saying it. I don’t dislike MJF but he’s not a main event level star.


Midcard for the moment


----------



## omaroo

MJF has really struggled for momentum for some time now. 

He's just lacking something but can't put my finger on it


----------



## rbl85

omaroo said:


> MJF has really struggled for momentum for some time now.
> 
> He's just lacking something but can't put my finger on it


The look, he look average.


----------



## 3venflow




----------



## Klitschko

elo said:


> The guy in your profile pic will probably have prelim numbers into certain local markets and announce them during WOR, national figures not before Monday.





LifeInCattleClass said:


> its good to see fans of Dave display it proud


Meltz sure is amazing isn't he?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Klitschko said:


> Meltz sure is amazing isn't he?


is he ‘the head of your table’?

Meltz is Klitch’s tribal chief, pass it around


----------



## 3venflow

Apparently, the first half Rampage did a 1.6 in the 18-49 *in Chicago*. That's absolutely insane, although the national average will be waaaay less.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Apparently, the first half Rampage did a 1.6 in the 18-49 *in Chicago*. That's absolutely insane, although the national average will be waaaay less.


lol, yeah - i heard

but lets wait for final figures

@Chip Chipperson and i have a bet on regarding Q1 and Q2, so should be interesting


----------



## Klitschko

LifeInCattleClass said:


> is he ‘the head of your table’?
> 
> Meltz is Klitch’s tribal chief, pass it around


Head of the table and head of the toilet as well. Just think of all that power Life.


----------



## zkorejo

omaroo said:


> MJF has really struggled for momentum for some time now.
> 
> He's just lacking something but can't put my finger on it


Jericho?. He desperately needs to be separated from Jericho as soon as possible. It's overdone by this point. 

Same goes for Jericho. They are both good but this feud has gone WAY too long and needs to end.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

So is that 1.6 the rating or is that the viewer count. If that's the rating, then if it did stretch to a national level (which I know won't be anywhere near as high) it'd be a bit over 2 million? (Based on them having average around 400k viewers and a 0.3 rating for first show).

If they can beat the first episode, that's a win. But if they can get over a million, that's a pretty big success.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Klitschko said:


> Any ratings for Rampage yet?


*Did you lose a bet? Lol*


----------



## 3venflow

@#BadNewsSanta 1.6 is only in the key 18-49 demo and only for half of the show in the Chicago market. So the final ratings in total viewership and the 18-49 are likely to be much different (definitely won't be as high, even Dynamite in primetime has never hit 1.6).


----------



## Klitschko

The Legit DMD said:


> *Did you lose a bet? Lol*


Yea. I said CM Punk wouldn't debut lol. This is my punishment for 2 months lol.


----------



## shandcraig

zkorejo said:


> Jericho?. He desperately needs to be separated from Jericho as soon as possible. It's overdone by this point.
> 
> Same goes for Jericho. They are both good but this feud has gone WAY too long and needs to end.



id say its lack of storylines for him. same could be said for hangman. Hangman is the most over person in aew and has done fuck all for storylines. Hoprfully once he returns they push him properly


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Klitschko said:


> Yea. I said CM Punk wouldn't debut lol. This is my punishment for 2 months lol.


*Damn, Meltzer AND New Japan. They got you good 🤣*


----------



## Randy Lahey

A 1.6 (18-49) is 3x Raw’s regular audience. For Rampage to pull that number on a late Friday night in any market is incredible.


----------



## Chan Hung

Klitschko said:


> Meltz sure is amazing isn't he?


Soon enough, people will think you are Dave. Keep up the great work LOL


----------



## THANOS

rbl85 said:


> The look, he look average.


Didn't he used to look 'bigger'? If he put on some mass it might help.

Currently, he just reminds me of a smaller Miz.


----------



## TD_DDT

It's looking like a good number somewhere around 1.2 million viewers. That's obviously great but it would of been more interesting and more telling if this debut happened on Dynamite. Obviously some casual and WWE eyes tuned in but I'm not sure as many as I expected. It's so hard to say though.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk


----------



## rbl85

TD_DDT said:


> It's looking like a good number somewhere around 1.2 million viewers. That's obviously great but it would of been more interesting and more telling if this debut happened on Dynamite. Obviously some casual and WWE eyes tuned in but I'm not sure as many as I expected. It's so hard to say though.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk


1.2 for the full hour means way more for the first 20-30min


----------



## Dark Emperor

I'm not sure why people are acting surprised. The man hasn't been in a wrestling ring for 7 and half years. Especially with how he left the WWE, the debut rating will be quite big and Dynamite rating this week is likely to beat their debut number of 1.4m just out of sheer curiosity if the rest of the show holds up.

However the test is the rating over time and history suggest CM Punk is not a long term draw so retaining the likely massive number ain't happening which i would assume is what Khan invested in him for.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Dark Emperor said:


> I'm not sure why people are acting surprised. The man hasn't been in a wrestling ring for 7 and half years. Especially with how he left the WWE, the debut rating will be quite big and Dynamite rating this week is likely to beat their debut number of 1.4m just out of sheer curiosity if the rest of the show holds up.
> 
> However the test is the rating over time and history suggest CM Punk is not a long term draw so retaining the likely massive number ain't happening which i would assume is what Khan invested in him for.


This.


----------



## THANOS

Well, even Guiness World Records is looking at this. Insinuating it could be documented as the largest wrestling pop of all time.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

THANOS said:


> Well, even Guiness World Records is looking at this. Insinuating it could be documented as the largest wretaling pop of all time.







This one is my favourite.


----------



## omaroo

Chip Chipperson said:


> This one is my favourite.


Ye that was awesome moment and pop

Man I miss heel King. He was fucking awesome at the booth back in the late 90s


----------



## Stevieg786

when are the ratings out for rampage?


----------



## Mr316

Stevieg786 said:


> when are the ratings out for rampage?


Later today.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW's Virginia debut just announced, with local boy Hangman on the poster.

Interesting note... it's not long after Full Gear. Could it be set up for Hangman to return home with the gold?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I hope so

full gear was named for hangman anyway

its ‘his’ ppv


----------



## DammitChrist

Yep, Adam Page is definitely winning that AEW World title at Full Gear then! 

It’s a well-deserved moment for Page too 

I’m glad that I called this match/win happening 6 months in advance


----------



## omaroo

Still think 3 months story for his title win is way too long and another 3 months of omega as champion is even harder to take.


----------



## Not Lying

omaroo said:


> Still think 3 months story for his title win is way too long and another 3 months of omega as champion is even harder to take.


3 months is too long. But honestly glad it'll be over with in 3 months and not more, I was starting to think they might prolong this reign even more, and it's just so boring and meaningless.


----------



## omaroo

The Definition of Technician said:


> 3 months is too long. But honestly glad it'll be over with in 3 months and not more, I was starting to think they might prolong this reign even more, and it's just so boring and meaningless.


Don't hate the elite but finding omegas and bucks reign have been really stale and boring. 

Do hope we see new tag champs at all out or even the NYC show.


----------



## Not Lying

omaroo said:


> Don't hate the elite but finding omegas and bucks reign have been really stale and boring.
> 
> Do hope we see new tag champs at all out or even the NYC show.


They have because they've stretched them out too long with a bunch of fillers.


----------



## DammitChrist

omaroo said:


> Still think 3 months story for his title win is way too long and another 3 months of omega as champion is even harder to take.





The Definition of Technician said:


> 3 months is too long. But honestly glad it'll be over with in 3 months and not more, I was starting to think they might prolong this reign even more, and it's just so boring and meaningless.


Nah, Kenny Omega's AEW World title reign has been really good so far. 

The next 3 months will fly back quick since he is entertaining, is one of the best wrestlers in the industry, is one of the better all-around talents in the company, is very likely to deliver yet another wrestling classic with Christian Cage in a few weeks, and will eventually put over Adam Page big time in what will arguably be AEW's best long-term storyline so far. 

There's nothing "boring" about this fun title reign at all, and this run is DEFINITELY meaningful


----------



## Botchy SinCara




----------



## Joe Gill

Botchy SinCara said:


> View attachment 106882


that would mean 1.16 million viewers for rampage.


----------



## DaSlacker

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I hope so
> 
> full gear was named for hangman anyway
> 
> its ‘his’ ppv


Off topic but I hate the name of Full Gear. Revolution isn't much better. Sounds like one of the random TNA PPVs from the mid to late 2000s. Hoping next year they move it to TV and promote Grand Slam to PPV as that one sounds more prestigious. 

I like Double or Nothing and All Out.


----------



## Not Lying

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, Kenny Omega's AEW World title reign has been really good so far.
> 
> The next 3 months will fly back quick since he is entertaining, is one of the best wrestlers in the industry, is one of the better all-around talents in the company, is very likely to deliver yet another wrestling classic with Christian Cage in a few weeks, and will eventually put over Adam Page big time in what will arguably be AEW's best long-term storyline so far.
> 
> There's nothing "boring" about this fun title reign at all, and this run is DEFINITELY meaningful


Nah, we didn't need Christian. We could have had Page dethrone Omega now and move on to the next thing. Christian vs Omega could have happened after. Omega was doing nothing between March-June as champion.


----------



## DaSlacker

Joe Gill said:


> that would mean 1.16 million viewers for rampage.


That's believable. Wouldn't be shocked if those first 10 mins set a company record for peak viewership.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

DaSlacker said:


> That's believable. Wouldn't be shocked if those first 10 mins set a company record for peak viewership.



It's gonna be one hell of a nose dive after tho


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Just give us the number you ASS

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1429883185437954060*


----------



## RapShepard

Botchy SinCara said:


> It's gonna be one hell of a nose dive after tho


Should hold pretty decently since it's just an hour. Might as well check the rest when it's just an hour, 2 hours is another thing.


----------



## RapShepard

Either it's comically unpredictably high (1.8+) or comfortably solid (1.2ish)


----------



## DammitChrist

The Definition of Technician said:


> Nah, we didn't need Christian. *We could have had Page dethrone Omega now* and move on to the next thing. Christian vs Omega could have happened after. Omega was doing nothing between March-June as champion.


True, but in all fairness, I would rather not have Adam Page's long-awaited world title win to be overshadowed by CM Punk's epic return to professional wrestling, or even by Daniel Bryan's upcoming debut in a few weeks.

I'd rather he beat Kenny Omega at Full Gear a full year after their last encounter so that his redemption will officially come in full circle. 

Plus, Page likely won't be available anyway since he's having a kid atm


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *Just give us the number you ASS
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1429883185437954060*


Dude, really?

You seriously can't just wait another hour?


----------



## Martyn

The Legit DMD said:


> *Just give us the number you ASS
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1429883185437954060*


It was a 'stand by' for Wrestling Observer Live lol....


----------



## Botchy SinCara

RapShepard said:


> Either it's comically unpredictably high (1.8+) or comfortably solid (1.2ish)


Either way over over mill at that hour is pretty insane


----------



## 3venflow

Rating is in:

1,129,000 viewers total

0.53 in the 18-49

Incredible for the timeslot and that demo is the highest since Dynamite #1.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Well geeez


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

That is amazing 

well done Punk, still a draw


----------



## Erik.

Brilliant number. And better than what I originally predicted:



Erik. said:


> 850,000 - 900,000 for Rampage
> 1,100,000 - 1,250,000 for Dynamite
> 
> This week out of curiosity, in my view.
> 
> 170k buys for All Out.


Would be incredible if they got that for Dynamite. But that initial intrigue and viewing for Punk was always going to be his first night back in my opinion.

That demo is fucking crazy.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> Brilliant number. And better than what I originally predicted:
> 
> 
> 
> Would be incredible if they got that for Dynamite. But that initial intrigue and viewing for Punk was always going to be his first night back in my opinion.
> 
> That demo is fucking crazy.


i’m predicting 1.5m for dynamite


----------



## InexorableJourney

3venflow said:


> Rating is in:
> 
> 1,129,000 viewers total
> 
> 0.53 in the 18-49
> 
> Incredible for the timeslot and that demo is the highest since Dynamite #1.


That's a season worth of home runs.


----------



## 3venflow

Wasn't far off Smackdown in the demo despite starting after it.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1429895170053529608


----------



## Prized Fighter

For comparison. Raw had a (.55) demo on Monday for the go home show for SummerSlam.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Wasn't far off Smackdown in the demo despite starting after it.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1429895170053529608


now…. Imagine the difference in cost for Smackdown vs Rampage 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Very nice! Fair play to Punk. Let's hope they can get a few of the extra viewers to stick around


----------



## 3venflow

You have to wonder what the rating would have been if they had run the United Center for Dynamite this Wednesday instead.

It's great for brand building Rampage but man, Dynamite could have gotten closer to 2m than ever before.


----------



## RapShepard

So what's the difference between Dynamite 1 & 2 on total viewers and demo?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> So what's the difference between Dynamite 1 & 2 on total viewers and demo?


i think it was 1.6 / 0.6 and 1.1 / 0.5 if i remember correct

don’t hold me to it


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i think it was 1.6 / 0.6 and 1.1 / 0.5 if i remember correct
> 
> don’t hold me to it


Shit I meant Rampage lol


----------



## Lesnar Turtle

Thats a great number all things considered. If they really capitalize on the hype and bring in more big names staggered across the next few weeks Dynamite could probably be in the 1.3-1-5m range before too long.


----------



## 3venflow

Opening quarter with Punk did 1,341,000 viewers on average and 842,000 in the key demo (0.65).

@RapShepard #2 was up 53% in viewership and 75% in the key demo.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Shit I meant Rampage lol


ahh 

someone will check and tell us


----------



## Dark Emperor

Awesome rating. Demographic is great and i expect more of the same this week for Dynamite.

The key is keeping the momentum going over time though. The debut was always going to be massive.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Opening quarter with Punk did 1,341,000 viewers on average and 842,000 in the key demo (0.65).
> 
> @RapShepard #2 was up 53% in viewership and 75% in the key demo.


that is not a big drop-off for the whole hour then


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1429895170053529608


LifeInCattleClass said:


> That is amazing
> 
> well done Punk, still a draw


*Did you do the Super Optimistic bet in the ratings gambling thread? I guessed a million.*


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> Opening quarter with Punk did 1,341,000 viewers on average and 842,000 in the key demo (0.65).
> 
> @RapShepard #2 was up 53% in viewership and 75% in the key demo.


That's what's up will be interesting to see how it goes forward.


----------



## qntntgood

RapShepard said:


> That's what's up will be interesting to see how it goes forward.


I thought it would be closer to two million,not a bad number for a man who has been gone for seven years.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1429895170053529608
> *Did you do the Super Optimistic bet in the ratings gambling thread? I guessed a million.*


i actually had 900k

i’m shocked


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> That's what's up will be interesting to see how it goes forward.


acknowledge him as your needle mover!


----------



## fabi1982

3venflow said:


> Opening quarter with Punk did 1,341,000 viewers on average and 842,000 in the key demo (0.65).
> 
> @RapShepard #2 was up 53% in viewership and 75% in the key demo.


How did the other quarters do?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> How did the other quarters do?


hey brother

no news on all the Qs


----------



## 3venflow

fabi1982 said:


> How did the other quarters do?


Not known yet, but Brandon Thurston should post the quarters later. If Q1 was the peak though, then it looks like they held a good % of the viewers.


----------



## rich110991

Love to see it


----------



## NXT Only

Love it. Wednesday should be insane.


----------



## Mr316

Incredible number.


----------



## NXT Only

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1429901629008990236


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> hey brother
> 
> no news on all the Qs


Yo musty ok thanks. Always find it strange when they have numbers for one but not all. But this numbers was expected after the infos from the top10 markets. Still a huge number for this slot. But this was to be expected with Punk. Im interested if he draws these numbers in a months time. Will watch dynamite first time in 3 month on weds just for him.


----------



## omaroo

Amazing rating and to be expected with punks debut. 

When they can get close to a million or over a million most weeks with Rampage will be a tough ask though in that time slot on Fridays.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Man it's crazy to think ..punk would've been back a year ago if not for the pandemic and aew was rolling hot at the time then started to coast until fans came back ...curious on where they would be if they never had to slowdown


----------



## 3venflow

Maybe A E Dub should move their homebase to Chicago.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1429901426839343117


----------



## Martyn

Great number. Next weeks Dynamite rating should be very impressive. Rampage wont draw that number again though.


----------



## drougfree

Cm PuNk Is NoT a DrAw


----------



## RapShepard

NXT Only said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1429901629008990236


This is the only thing that's eye roll worthy did they win the demo or not lol.


----------



## The_Great_One21

Wow. Comfortably over a million in that time slot. Wonder what Dynamite does. 1.3m maybe?


----------



## Martyn

RapShepard said:


> This is the only thing that's eye roll worthy did they win the demo or not lol.


Dude, SmackDown is on free tv and Rampage is on cable. 8-10pm to 10-11pm also makes a difference.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i actually had 900k
> 
> i’m shocked


*PLOT TWIST! I'M NOW THE BIGGEST RATINGS OPTIMIST! LOL*


----------



## rich110991

Martyn said:


> Dude, SmackDown is on free tv and Rampage is on cable. 8-10pm to 10-11pm also makes a difference.


If they were both on at 8pm, Smackdown’s would have been lower and Rampage’s would have been higher, maybe they would have met in the middle? 😜


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Yo musty ok thanks. Always find it strange when they have numbers for one but not all. But this numbers was expected after the infos from the top10 markets. Still a huge number for this slot. But this was to be expected with Punk. Im interested if he draws these numbers in a months time. Will watch dynamite first time in 3 month on weds just for him.


it will be interesting / impossible i think to keep it this high

Dynamite might be a different story - think at least for 3 months it miiight compete with Raw at least in the demo / not overall

we’ll see - i’m positive (big shock  )


----------



## drougfree

And Danielson is yet to come The Sky is the limit


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *PLOT TWIST! I'M NOW THE BIGGEST RATINGS OPTIMIST! LOL*


how the turntables… have turned


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Maybe A E Dub should move their homebase to Chicago.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1429901426839343117


it is their actual homebase - TK is from there

All Out / DoN - the sears centre plaque 

if not for the pandemic, chicago would be seen as homebase for them


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## The_Great_One21

I REALLY wish they had debuted him on Dynamite. Because even if next weeks numbers are up, they wouldn’t have been as high as a dynamite debut. Genuinely reckon they could have done 1.5 to 1.7m if he debuted on a Dynamite.


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it will be interesting / impossible i think to keep it this high
> 
> Dynamite might be a different story - think at least for 3 months it miiight compete with Raw at least in the demo / not overall
> 
> we’ll see - i’m positive (big shock  )


I actually meant overall for shows punk being on, so also dynamite. Of course the 1.7 in the demo in chicago is great and all, but will there be a 1.7 in the demo on weds for the chicago market?
You know my opinion on AEW and I really dont like this cherry picking „if they would be at 8pm“ „winning the littlepeople who work at walmart demo“ from the Meltzers (not @Klitschko) out there. Punk came back after 7 years and people knew, so yeah it gets a big number. But reading „doing this on a weds would do 2m“…anyways, lets see if they can beat RAWs demo with punk. It actually would be bad if they dont


----------



## Chelsea

CM fucking Punk!!! Great number.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*I'm thinking between 1.3-1*.*4 for Dynamite, especially with SummerSlam being a massive disappointment.*


----------



## The_Great_One21

They should have stacked this weeks Dynamite. Sadly the card looks incredibly underwhelming.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> I actually meant overall for shows punk being on, so also dynamite. Of course the 1.7 in the demo in chicago is great and all, but will there be a 1.7 in the demo on weds for the chicago market?
> You know my opinion on AEW and I really dont like this cherry picking „if they would be at 8pm“ „winning the littlepeople who work at walmart demo“ from the Meltzers (not @Klitschko) out there. Punk came back after 7 years and people knew, so yeah it gets a big number. But reading „doing this on a weds would do 2m“…anyways, lets see if they can beat RAWs demo with punk. It actually would be bad if they dont


yeah, i also don’t care what else is on - they should aim for the top regardless


----------



## Geeee

IMO this is AEW's most impressive rating yet. Like a lot of people on the east coast probably put off sleeping for an hour just to watch this. (And then couldn't get to sleep afterwards)


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *I'm thinking between 1.3-1*.*4 for Dynamite, especially with SummerSlam being a massive disappointment.*


and with NXT riding off into the sunset and rumours of Cole?

i‘m saying 1.5 - just to get my optimist title back


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> and with NXT riding off into the sunset and rumours of Cole?
> 
> i‘m saying 1.5 - just to get my optimist title back


*You're on. I'm sticking with 1.4!*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Well…. kenny is on my side - the hints have started 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1429905544052101120


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Edit: Wrong thread*


----------



## The XL 2

I'm not surprised. Let's see if they can keep that number


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Well…. kenny is on my side - the hints have started
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1429905544052101120


*I clicked the wrong ratings thread, LOL. I'll share this in my Adam Cole thread.*


----------



## AnonymousOne

But I thought Punk wasn't a draw?


----------



## One Shed

Awesome number. That is what star power and real anticipation will get you!


----------



## Jbardo37

Punk proving that he is in fact a draw, despite what the Punk haters would tell you.


----------



## RLT1981

might have gotten close to 2 million had they debut him on dynamite but on a friday night at 10:00pm over one million is amazing and shows Punk is a draw.


----------



## Geert Wilders

The XL 2 said:


> I'm not surprised. Let's see if they can keep that number


absolutely not happening.


----------



## Prosper

Well DAMN, Punk is still a huge draw. Had this been on Dynamite it probably would have been closer to a 1.5 - 1.6, but hey let’s see what the 2nd appearance does this Wednesday. Awesome demo and overall number.


----------



## taker_2004

Geert Wilders said:


> absolutely not happening.


will you be happy if they don't?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

AnonymousOne said:


> But I thought Punk wasn't a draw?


*Everyone misses the "like The Rock" part.*


----------



## rich110991

Dynamite rating surely will be strong on Wednesday. I can’t wait to see Punk again, once (although perfect 😜) wasn’t enough!


----------



## Geert Wilders

taker_2004 said:


> will you be happy if they don't?


I don't care. As long as I enjoy the product, I do not care. The most popular of shows i do not like, but some very unpopular shows I enjoy.

I am not into numbers like this forum.


----------



## 3venflow

An expected post-Punk drop but they still retained over a million.


----------



## Prosper

Lol Daniel Bryan is still on his way. AEW is about to be straight 🔥 🔥 🔥


----------



## taker_2004

Geert Wilders said:


> I am not into numbers like this forum.


What did integers ever do to you, though? 

Kidding. I like numbers, but not in the way many of this forum do (to use to drive a narrative).


----------



## yeahright2

Good number for Rampage, but let´s be real -nobody believe they´ll stay up there when there´s no big debut or an excitement of a new show.

AEW Ratings prediction game

That show was Punk and nothing else - and @Prosper called it. Congrats to him


----------



## Prized Fighter

3venflow said:


> An expected post-Punk drop but they still retained over a million.
> 
> View attachment 106886


That is actually pretty impressive. A drop from Q1 to Q2 was guaranteed, but they stayed over 1 million. They even gained viewers from Q3 to Q4.


----------



## Erik.

Still think this is nothing but intrigue. Much like opening day Dynamite, first week unopposed etc.

Punk fans will tune in for Punk or watch Punk clips on YouTube - but wont neccessarily stay and watch the show, regardless of how good us wrestling fans truly think it is.

Dynamite should see a bump, back to over a million due to the show being on at a sociable time, likely longer promo slot and it being the #1 show.

But whether it's sustainable or not is based on whether fans tuning in for Punk will do so live or just watch via streaming.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

yeahright2 said:


> Good number for Rampage, but let´s be real -nobody believe they´ll stay up there when there´s no big debut or an excitement of a new show.
> 
> AEW Ratings prediction game
> 
> That show was Punk and nothing else - and @Prosper called it. Congrats to him


*If Rampage stays over 800k, that'll be a good number. As long as they keep it as "The Big Match" show, they should be fine.*


----------



## Aedubya

RLT1981 said:


> might have gotten close to 2 million had they debut him on dynamite but on a friday night at 10:00pm over one million is amazing and shows Punk is a draw.


The arena was only free on that Friday


----------



## 3venflow

Number two on cable in the key demo behind NFL. That male 18-49 rating is something else. Comparatively, not many boomers tuned in.


----------



## Randy Lahey

3venflow said:


> 0.53 in the 18-49


That beat the go home Summerslam show for Raw last week!


----------



## DaSlacker

3venflow said:


> Number two on cable in the key demo behind NFL. That male 18-49 rating is something else. Comparatively, not many boomers tuned in.
> 
> View attachment 106890


If they could get the boomers like WWE does the viewership would see a huge jump. 

Ironically, I bet if Khan could use WCW and the company name was changed to it yet otherwise stayed exactly the same, then the 50+ demo would boom. Thus the power of a simple acronym and familiarity.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I‘ve said it a couple of times now

but the narrative (right or wrong - but its there) that AEW is for young people and WWE is for old people will have the most harming long-term effect and Damage on WWE

and now they will kill their ‘cool’ brand NXT too

it is self-assisted suicide (no, they are not going anywhere - but they won’t see massive growth spikes either)


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *If Rampage stays over 800k, that'll be a good number. As long as they keep it as "The Big Match" show, they should be fine.*


Absolutely. Use Dynamite for the upper midcard scene to feel important and to promote the week’s Top 8 guys in rotating action on Fridays.


----------



## Prosper

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I‘ve said it a couple of times now
> 
> but the narrative (right or wrong - but its there) that AEW is for young people and WWE is for old people will have the most harming long-term effect and Damage on WWE
> 
> and now they will kill their ‘cool’ brand NXT too
> 
> it is self-assisted suicide (no, they are not going anywhere - but they won’t see massive growth spikes either)


I think they're turning NXT into something like Elevation/DARK. So it's no longer a 3rd brand but truly developmental where a lot of scouting will go down. That won't make the NXT diehards happy.


----------



## Alright_Mate

3 hours gone and still no sign of Chip Chipperson


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Prosper said:


> I think they're turning NXT into something like Elevation/DARK. So it's no longer a 3rd brand but truly developmental where a lot of scouting will go down. That won't make the NXT diehards happy.


i think they’re gonna turn it into NXT gameshow era personally

Tough enough season 7

in the long run


----------



## DaSlacker

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I‘ve said it a couple of times now
> 
> but the narrative (right or wrong - but its there) that AEW is for young people and WWE is for old people will have the most harming long-term effect and Damage on WWE
> 
> and now they will kill their ‘cool’ brand NXT too
> 
> it is self-assisted suicide (no, they are not going anywhere - but they won’t see massive growth spikes either)


Good point. It's definitely a risk they face. As is having a lot of middle aged wrestlers in prominent positions. By 2025 they will either be phasing out the following or they will be part time or gone for good: Randy Orton, AJ Styles, The Miz, Rey Mysterio, Brock Lesnar, Edge. Plus others like Ziggler, Kingston, Hardy, Morrison, Lashley. 

I think the obsession with making the WWE so far above and beyond the individual talent, whereas AEW is a collection of individual talent, will come back to bite WWE on the ass.


----------



## Bubbly2

Did Rampage lose much once Punk's segment ended? 

I don't care myself but i was surprised with who they went with after.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Bubbly2 said:


> Did Rampage lose much once Punk's segment ended?
> 
> I don't care myself but i was surprised with who they went with after.













not really ...it stayed over a mill the whole hour



like others stated of Rampage stays around 800 thousand id call that a success ..you can beef up the card the friday before a PPV


----------



## RLT1981

yeahright2 said:


> Good number for Rampage, but let´s be real -nobody believe they´ll stay up there when there´s no big debut or an excitement of a new show.
> 
> AEW Ratings prediction game
> 
> That show was Punk and nothing else - and @Prosper called it. Congrats to him


if Rampage can stay in the 700,00 range TNT would be very happy with that for a friday night.


----------



## 3venflow

I'd put money on Rampage never topping Friday's rating as long as it is in a 10pm timeslot. That rating in the 10pm Friday timeslot is way above normal expectations and is something of an anomaly. Still feel Rampage may get a better timeslot after it moves to TBS though, probably on a Saturday night.


----------



## RapShepard

Randy Lahey said:


> That beat the go home Summerslam show for Raw last week!


Raw got a .55 they missed by .02


----------



## 3venflow

Some ticket movement for Dynamite after the Punk debut.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1429900639082106887
September 15th show in Newark is now up to 11,705 tickets distributed while Grand Slam in NYC is at just over 17,300.


----------



## deadcool

0.53 in the 18-49 demo on a Friday night 10PM EST is very impressive. AEW did a great job. I hope Punk continues to keep up the momentum. 

I am disappointed with the total viewer count. But let's see what happens in the future.


----------



## PavelGaborik

Much higher I expected considering the garbage slot. 

I think they're going to level off in the 600k range eventually.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Alright_Mate said:


> 3 hours gone and still no sign of Chip Chipperson


I understand that you might get excited about hearing my views on all of this but despite what my detractors would tell you I actually do have a life away from WrestlingForum even if I am in a statewide lockdown.

Admittedly I don't know what response you're looking for, ERIK was the one who claimed Punk wasn't a draw and he wouldn't boost the ratings up and I argued with him that he was wrong. Seems like I'm right because it's gone from 600k or whatever it was last week to over 1 million.

Now we just need to wait to see the quarterly breakdowns, that's where I actually COULD be wrong about something.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

3venflow said:


> I'd put money on Rampage never topping Friday's rating as long as it is in a 10pm timeslot. That rating in the 10pm Friday timeslot is way above normal expectations and is something of an anomaly. Still feel Rampage may get a better timeslot after it moves to TBS though, probably on a Saturday night.


TBS I'm sure will give them whatever they want and I agree with what you said unless like Daniel Bryan's first match in AEW is on Rampage or something.


----------



## shandcraig

i still say that they are going to have to move rampage to Saturdays at a early time slot like 4 western time. I just dont see the numbers in the long run being good enough at such a shitty time slot. its new and shinny and they have used very specific strategy to win the viewers they have got so far but that wont last. 

4 saturday and it would always lead into saturday ppvs as well or lead into the tv specials they plan on releasing on saturdays


----------



## Britz94xD

shandcraig said:


> i still say that they are going to have to move rampage to Saturdays at a early time slot like 4 western time. I just dont see the numbers in the long run being good enough at such a shitty time slot. its new and shinny and they have used very specific strategy to win the viewers they have got so far but that wont last.
> 
> 4 saturday and it would always lead into saturday ppvs as well or lead into the tv specials they plan on releasing on saturdays


Maybe they'll make the death spot work for them, since hardly any competition. Miami Vice in the 80s was super popular despite being on Friday's at 10pm.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

The Legit DMD said:


> *Everyone misses the "like The Rock" part.*


You mean like this?


----------



## Fearless Viper

Just like I predicted. They're not going to beat their debut number but close.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

That's a good number for Punk's debut but I have worries about the card they've put out for Dynamite being able to retain potentially new viewers, I look at that card and the next biggest name after CM Punk is Matt Hardy, I think the card looks terrible to be honest.


----------



## Not Lying

Yeah Wednesday card is weak. Usually these shows flow better if they don’t give matches too much time.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

shandcraig said:


> i still say that they are going to have to move rampage to Saturdays at a early time slot like 4 western time. I just dont see the numbers in the long run being good enough at such a shitty time slot. its new and shinny and they have used very specific strategy to win the viewers they have got so far but that wont last.
> 
> 4 saturday and it would always lead into saturday ppvs as well or lead into the tv specials they plan on releasing on saturdays


Definitely ...Saturdays would be better ..at the current time slot you might as well go head to head with smackdown


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

That's what a draw looks like. Off one guy, he popped the viewership by about 50% give or take (I'm not doing the exact math right now). We'll see if it continues, but having a 1.341 quarter rating when even the highest of Dynamite recently hasn't gotten that is pretty amazing. The number for show as a whole though is excellent. Over a million still were there by the end of the night, so definitely a huge success for Rampage.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

you've escaped your bet @Chip Chipperson 

no need to watch BTE


----------



## thorn123

Decent … was hoping for more and it deserved more. I mean it still doesn’t compare well with smack down Though does it.

Let’s not get excited until they can back it up week after week And hopefully grow. We all saw the drop off from the debut dynamite.

shock returns and big name appearances can only do so much … it needs regular quality programming and perhaps some more open minded viewers.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you've escaped your bet @Chip Chipperson
> 
> no need to watch BTE


You have the breakdown? Would be interested in seeing it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> You have the breakdown? Would be interested in seeing it.


its in this thread

1.3m for punk - over 1m for the rest of the show


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

@Chip Chipperson




Botchy SinCara said:


> View attachment 106891
> 
> 
> 
> not really ...it stayed over a mill the whole hour
> 
> 
> 
> like others stated of Rampage stays around 800 thousand id call that a success ..you can beef up the card the friday before a PPV


----------



## Erik.

You're all crazy if you think they'll get 800k each week.

Its a death slot. They should be happy to get 600k or so in my opinion. Maybe slightly less.

There are still stories to be told and they cant just throw away title matches each week on Rampage to pop a rating like the first episode or debut a star like Punk - add to the fact that its recorded every other week.

If anything, they can split up their TV specials so they can have some Rampage specials on Friday nights. Or have a 2 hour special on Wednesday and follow it up on Friday with an hour.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Been thinking a little about how slick this all ended up being

Tk and Punk have been talking for 1.5 years 

just as NXT is ‘defeated’ and moves to another night, and the ‘rivalry’ dies down a bit

boom - here comes Punk

now suddenly the rivalry is AEW + Punk vs WWE / his old bosses who ‘kept him down’ - and even talks of ‘they should beat Raw with Punk’ etc

it really is a smart piece of business - brings the buzz back immediately


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Soon it will be AEW + Punk + Bryan vs WWE

it really is Punk / Bryan vs the Authority 2.0

this time just in real life


----------



## Arkham258

Despite how beautifully it played out, I wonder if debuting Punk on Dynamite wouldn't have been smarter. I mean, Rampage feels like a B show even though they are trying to make it seem like a big deal with Christian beating Omega and Punk showing up


----------



## Martyn

They're not hot shoting things. For them it's all about long term storytelling, moments and developing talent first and foremost. That's why they haven't openly advertised his appearance like crazy. That's also why they did it on Rampage. It would do a giant rating on Dynamite, but such a move is cementing their second show as a must see television and will benefit them in the future. 

This weeks Dynamite has a simple card, but that's okay. That's what they do. They're not trying to flex their muscles. They're just doing their thing and that's really cool.


----------



## Alright_Mate

Chip Chipperson said:


> I understand that you might get excited about hearing my views on all of this but despite what my detractors would tell you I actually do have a life away from WrestlingForum even if I am in a statewide lockdown.


My bad Chip, the way you live in the ratings thread sometimes, I thought you’d be straight on here, typing out an essay on how the ratings look and what AEW could do better.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Alright_Mate said:


> My bad Chip, the way you live in the ratings thread sometimes, I thought you’d be straight on here, typing out an essay on how the ratings look and what AEW could do better.


I've only come back in the past week or two to this thread.


----------



## shandcraig

Botchy SinCara said:


> Definitely ...Saturdays would be better ..at the current time slot you might as well go head to head with smackdown


Guess we'll see what happens with ratings and what happens once they move to tbs and have all the freedom


----------



## Garty

So then, it looks like the "not a needle mover" cliche has been put to rest on Punk... or is it still in play until Danielson arrives, or Rotunda arrives, or Cole arrives?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I'm just happy I don't have to watch BTE...might be time to retire from betting


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'm just happy I don't have to watch BTE...might be time to retire from betting


funnily enough / think you will like some aspects of it


----------



## Prized Fighter

Deleted to avoid WWE/AEW fan in fighting.


----------



## RapShepard

Garty said:


> So then, it looks like the "not a needle mover" cliche has been put to rest on Punk... or is it still in play until Danielson arrives, or Rotunda arrives, or Cole arrives?


It's in play until we have time to average out what they do with Punk on the roster.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW is running its first Orlando show in October on a Saturday (which means Dynamite is being preempted again). The Addition Arena seats around 9,400 at maximum capacity.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> AEW is running its first Orlando show in October on a Saturday (which means Dynamite is being preempted again). The Addition Arena seats around 9,400 at maximum capacity.
> 
> View attachment 106935


that might he one of those Saturday specials?


----------



## Martyn

3venflow said:


> AEW is running its first Orlando show in October on a Saturday (which means Dynamite is being preempted again). The Addition Arena seats around 9,400 at maximum capacity.
> 
> View attachment 106935


Whoops, so no Dynamite on Chris Jericho Cruise this year? That sucks! Last years edition was amazing...


----------



## Aedubya

Is that Jericho Cruise even going ahead?


----------



## Martyn

Aedubya said:


> Is that Jericho Cruise even going ahead?


It does. 21-25 october. They will have some wrestling there, so maybe Rampage or other specials can be taped on the cruise.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Raw just did a 2.07m and a 0.64 demo. Good luck beating that 'needle mover' CM Punk!


----------



## zorori

Martyn said:


> This weeks Dynamite has a simple card, but that's okay. That's what they do. They're not trying to flex their muscles. They're just doing their thing and that's really cool.


This is why they should announce a major match during the program. We are able to judge the card in advance and consider whether it's worth watching or not, which is not good. Throw us a surprise, it doesn't have to happen every week or even every month, just once or twice.


----------



## Not Lying

Dark Emperor said:


> Raw just did a 2.07m and a 0.64 demo. Good luck beating that 'needle mover' CM Punk!


So bitter 😂
we can hear your fears WWE apologists 😂

In 2-3 years things are going to be so funny to look at all the Ls you’re gona take.


----------



## The_Great_One21

Without Punk I think they’d have got 600k. So he probably got them an extra 500k.


----------



## Erik.

Dark Emperor said:


> Raw just did a 2.07m and a 0.64 demo. Good luck beating that 'needle mover' CM Punk!


How many they do when Punk was champ there?


----------



## Dark Emperor

Erik. said:


> How many they do when Punk was champ there?


Summer of Punk consistently lost them viewership from Cena's prior reign. Even the PPV buyrate was down from prior years despite the internet community loving it. Only saw an uptick when Rock returned and took the title from him.

So yeah Punk has his fans and will bump viewership short term but he's not a legitimate needle mover.


----------



## Erik.

Dark Emperor said:


> Summer of Punk consistently lost them viewership from Cena's prior reign. Even the PPV buyrate was down from prior years despite the internet community loving it. Only saw an uptick when Rock returned and took the title from him.
> 
> So yeah Punk has his fans and will bump viewership short term but he's not a legitimate needle mover.


What were the Raw ratings with Punk as champion and what are they now?


----------



## Dark Emperor

Erik. said:


> What were the Raw ratings with Punk as champion and what are they now?


No idea but they were much higher in 2011-2013, just like almost every show on TV.

The only way to measure his star power is to assess his bump to AEW viewership over a longer period of time. Rather than on the week of his return like his fanboys are doing.


----------



## DaSlacker

Dark Emperor said:


> Raw just did a 2.07m and a 0.64 demo. Good luck beating that 'needle mover' CM Punk!


They did approximately the same last year - demo was ever so slightly down this year and viewership was ever so slightly up. Then they dropped back to the 1.7 range. This year was hot on the heels of Cena's comeback, Goldberg's post match angle with Lashley, Brock's surprise return and Becky's return/heel turn. I'm not sure what else they have going forward as it seems SmackDown is the focus.


----------



## Martyn

zorori said:


> This is why they should announce a major match during the program. We are able to judge the card in advance and consider whether it's worth watching or not, which is not good. Throw us a surprise, it doesn't have to happen every week or even every month, just once or twice.


You just had a major surprise on friday. CM Punk will appear on Dynamite for the first time.

Also, Chris Jericho is going to adress his future on this episode. Thats pretty big. What else do you want? 

If you're attached to the stories and talent, then you will watch it. Judging an event from a pure card standpoint is like judging a book with just a cover.


----------



## Erik.

Dark Emperor said:


> No idea but they were much higher in 2011-2013, just like almost every show on TV.
> 
> The only way to measure his star power is to assess his bump to AEW viewership over a longer period of time. Rather than on the week of his return like his fanboys are doing.


Why are TV ratings down now compared to 8 years ago?

Other ways of watching shows, I assume?

Then I guess we're going to need other way to judge his star power and not via TV ratings. Especially if people are going to DVR just to watch Punk segment or illegaly stream instead.

Id say ticket sales, merchandise sales and upcoming PPV buy rates are a likely better indicator.

Punk being in AEW isn't going to make people watch AEW - its going to make people watch Punk.


----------



## zorori

Martyn said:


> You just had a major surprise on friday. CM Punk will appear on Dynamite for the first time.
> 
> Also, Chris Jericho is going to adress his future on this episode. Thats pretty big. What else do you want?


I said a match, not a debut or a promo that was announced beforehand.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Erik. said:


> Punk being in AEW isn't going to make people watch AEW - its going to make people watch Punk.


Yup, exactly. And if AEW can create compelling television for those who enjoy CM Punk, while still maintaining the regular viewer base they’ve already built up, then you have potential for big long-term growth.

The goal should be to make these viewers who watched for Punk lifelong fans, that eventually when Punk is done they’re still watching.

Bottom line is, Punk actually had a huge impact this weekend, more so than anyone else in the last few years just based off his return. Yes, we do need to see if they can sustain the momentum and get more growth with Punk, but no matter what way you slice it getting over a million in a time slot Dynamite couldn’t even crack 600k means he was a draw.

But yeah, let’s see how Dynamite plays out.


----------



## sim8

The 


Dark Emperor said:


> Summer of Punk consistently lost them viewership from Cena's prior reign. Even the PPV buyrate was down from prior years despite the internet community loving it. Only saw an uptick when Rock returned and took the title from him.
> 
> So yeah Punk has his fans and will bump viewership short term but he's not a legitimate needle mover.


The Money in the Bank buyrate for 2011 was down because the show was shown on Sky Sports for free to anyone who had that channel. Basically nobody in the UK had to pay to view like they would have to with other PPVs.

Good try minimising Punk though


----------



## Erik.

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Yup, exactly. And if AEW can create compelling television for those who enjoy CM Punk, while still maintaining the regular viewer base they’ve already built up, then you have potential for big long-term growth.
> 
> The goal should be to make these viewers who watched for Punk lifelong fans, that eventually when Punk is done they’re still watching.
> 
> Bottom line is, Punk actually had a huge impact this weekend, more so than anyone else in the last few years just based off his return. Yes, we do need to see if they can sustain the momentum and get more growth with Punk, but no matter what way you slice it getting over a million in a time slot Dynamite couldn’t even crack 600k means he was a draw.
> 
> But yeah, let’s see how Dynamite plays out.


I just think there's two possible outcomes here :

1. Punk fans were mostly already AEW fans. The one who grew tired of WWE and became part of that hardcore AEW crowd. But the larger numbers were because people didn't want to miss out on a historic moment live.

2. There are just simply certain Punk fans nowadays. Those who are loyal to him and want to see what he does and what HE is up to but don't really watch wrestling anymore and probably aren't going to sit through wrestling in 2021 when they haven't in years. Especially when there's streaming, YouTube and DVR possible.

But we'll see.

Intrigue will see Dynamite get a bump this week. Probably 1.2m (would be fantastic) - but I'd expect that to simmer down within a week or two. Regardless of how good the shows are.


----------



## THANOS

Erik. said:


> Why are TV ratings down now compared to 8 years ago?
> 
> Other ways of watching shows, I assume?
> 
> Then I guess we're going to need other way to judge his star power and not via TV ratings. Especially if people are going to DVR just to watch Punk segment or illegaly stream instead.
> 
> Id say ticket sales, merchandise sales and upcoming PPV buy rates are a likely better indicator.
> 
> Punk being in AEW isn't going to make people watch AEW - its going to make people watch Punk.


Here's something:



> Tony Khan: "I heard from ESPN that the traffic that they got [on CM Punk] was so beyond anything that anybody has anticipated. It was the most traffic on any one social post they've had since May, which includes the Summer Olympics and the NBA Finals."


He also goes into detail right at the beginning of the podcast on many of the metrics Punk's return shattered for them and the business as a whole.



https://open.spotify.com/episode/0g6ljcAX2MzDw8TSFVgc6Z?si=f6X2oJnQTAyH0iKUzUkvRw&utm_source=copy-link&dl_branch=1


----------



## Erik.

THANOS said:


> Here's something:
> 
> 
> 
> He also goes into detail right at the beginning of the podcast on many of the metrics Punk's return shattered for them and the business as a whole.
> 
> 
> 
> https://open.spotify.com/episode/0g6ljcAX2MzDw8TSFVgc6Z?si=f6X2oJnQTAyH0iKUzUkvRw&utm_source=copy-link&dl_branch=1


Probably made his salary back already in merchandise sales too.


----------



## THANOS

Erik. said:


> Probably made his salary back already in merchandise sales too.


He, more or less, said that in the podcast as well. Basically agreed with the host that Punk paid for his contract in one night.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Inb4 money really wasn’t something Punk cared about and Punk’s only getting paid $40k a year.


----------



## Britz94xD

Punk wasn't a draw in 2011 because no one was except for the WWE brand (And Cena).

If WWE pushed Punk like they have Roman Reigns over the last 7 years. Would they have gotten more out of that investment?


----------



## THANOS

Britz94xD said:


> Punk wasn't a draw in 2011 because no one was except for the WWE brand (And Cena).
> 
> If WWE pushed Punk like they have Roman Reigns over the last 7 years. Would they have gotten more out of that investment?


Resounding yes imo. They ruined it very early by doing below:


Bringing him back within 2 weeks
Inserting Kevin Nash and taking the heat off the angle
Putting HHH over him
Keeping the focus of the show on Cena instead of Punk

All of this would have contributed to a loss of interest in viewers guaranteed.


----------



## RapShepard

Dark Emperor said:


> Summer of Punk consistently lost them viewership from Cena's prior reign. Even the PPV buyrate was down from prior years despite the internet community loving it. Only saw an uptick when Rock returned and took the title from him.
> 
> So yeah Punk has his fans and will bump viewership short term but he's not a legitimate needle mover.





sim8 said:


> The
> 
> 
> The Money in the Bank buyrate for 2011 was down because the show was shown on Sky Sports for free to anyone who had that channel. Basically nobody in the UK had to pay to view like they would have to with other PPVs.
> 
> Good try minimising Punk though


*MitB 2010- 165k*, Main Event Sheamus vs Cena

*MitB 2011- 195k*, Main Event Cena vs Punk

2011 WWE PPV buys 

*Royal Rumble- 476k*, Main Event- 40 Man Rumble

*No Way Out- 212k*, Main Event- Raw E.C

*WrestleMania 29- 1.059*, Million Main Event- Miz vs Cena (Rock as host)

*Extreme Rules- 209k*, Main Event Miz- vs Cena vs Morrison

*Over The Limit- 140k*, Main Event- Cena vs Miz

*Capitol Punishment- 170k*, Main Event- Cena vs R-Truth

MitB- shown above

*SummerSlam- 296k*, Main Event- CM Punk vs Cena (followed by Del Rio cash in)

*Night of Champions- 161k*, Main Event- HHH vs Punk COO job on the line. Del Rio vs Cena was Raw title match.

*Hell in a Cell- 182k*, Main Event- Cena vs Punk vs Del Rio

*Vengeance- 121k*, Main Event- Del Rio vs Cena elsewhere Punk & HHH loss to Miz & R-Truth

*Survivor Series- 281k*, Main Event- The Rock & Cena vs Miz & R-Truth. Elsewhere Punk defeated Del Rio for the title in the co-main

*TLC- 179k*, Main Event- CM Punk vs Del Rio


----------



## Dark Emperor

sim8 said:


> The
> 
> 
> The Money in the Bank buyrate for 2011 was down because the show was shown on Sky Sports for free to anyone who had that channel. Basically nobody in the UK had to pay to view like they would have to with other PPVs.
> 
> Good try minimising Punk though


I was talking about USA PPV numbers. Cena was Champ at MITB 2011 and i think that saw a small spike. It was after Punk got the title, that numbers started to go down.

UK PPV's have been free until a few years ago.


----------



## 3venflow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1430636575117959172


----------



## .christopher.

Ratings will be good for tonights episode, but I'm predicting next weeks Dynamite - regardless of how good it could be - will lose a chunk of viewers. I can't see many of the fans giving AEW a shot after Punk sticking around.

I can't believe they put on a show like that after all the attention they were getting. It's Sting all over again.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Seems whatever bump they get this week will go down the toilet by next week, they have an opportunity to create another 100k-200k fans and they bring out that card. What a waste.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Definition of Technician said:


> So bitter 😂
> we can hear your fears WWE apologists 😂
> 
> In 2-3 years things are going to be so funny to look at all the Ls you’re gona take.


I remember reading this type of talk 2 years ago when I first signed up. People were saying within 12 months AEW would be competing with RAW and Smackdown. 

It won't happen, the product doesn't appeal to enough of the mainstream.



Erik. said:


> What were the Raw ratings with Punk as champion and what are they now?


Hold on a minute, less than a week ago you were telling me that CM Punk isn't a draw at all and that the likes of JR are bigger ratings getters than him.

But now you're here arguing that he is a draw...


----------



## Not Lying

Chip Chipperson said:


> I remember reading this type of talk 2 years ago when I first signed up. People were saying within 12 months AEW would be competing with RAW and Smackdown.
> 
> It won't happen, the product doesn't appeal to enough of the mainstream


Go back to MY POSTS. I predicted 4-7 years. I know how it works and how long it takes. Unlike bitter haters who see AEW’s down performance and assume it’s their « regular », or the « TV experts » who think a new wrestling show is gona dethrone a 20+ years incumbent. Or worst of all the the WWE marks baiting how RAW and SD beat AEW in ratings NOW 😂as if this some relevation. I’m sure they’ll brag now as they can and once the logical thing happens, the superior quality show (which AEW is atm), they’ll tuck their tails between their legs and disappear.


----------



## RogueSlayer

Even if last night's show does a bigger number it's pointless because they have driven away all the new viewers they could of had.

Vince and Nick Kahn have been proven right they knew AEW wasn't a threat and last night's show proved it.


----------



## RapShepard

Cable Master Punk killing it in the YouTube ratings


----------



## Chip Chipperson

RapShepard said:


> Cable Master Punk killing it in the YouTube ratings


Is it really though when a video with a big WWE star has 3 million in 2 days?


----------



## RapShepard

Chip Chipperson said:


> Is it really though when a video with a big WWE star has 3 million in 2 days?


I mean if you think of pace yeah, it's at. 1 million in 13 hours. That's a good number no matter how you slice it for AEW and wrestling YouTube.


----------



## 3venflow

Also.

WWE: 80.8m subscribers
AEW: 2.53m subscribers

WWE's reach is so large that even minor videos have an easier shot of getting numbers. The numbers for Punk's videos are higher than AEW's subscription count so far, lol.


----------



## EMGESP

They didn't edit out Punk's D-bry tease on the official upload on AEW youtube channel. So I guess Tony isn't mad or trying to hide anything.


----------



## Erik.

EMGESP said:


> They didn't edit out Punk's D-bry tease on the official upload on AEW youtube channel. So I guess Tony isn't mad or trying to hide anything.


Why would they edit it out?

Bryan to AEW was even more obvious than Punk to AEW - we just don't know when.

We all assumed Grand Slam with 20k in attendance. But who knows.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Garty said:


> So then, it looks like the "not a needle mover" cliche has been put to rest on Punk... or is it still in play until Danielson arrives, or Rotunda arrives, or Cole arrives?


*If you're going to quote someone, do it in context. Roman Reigns specifically said he's not a needle mover like The Rock, and that remains the case.*


----------



## RapShepard

What's the number


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

RapShepard said:


> What's the number




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1430983788818059267

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1430983820673785858
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RapShepard

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1430983788818059267
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank ya


----------



## 3venflow

Highest viewership since April and highest demo rating since the debut show.

Great number with that card, impressive demo in particular. Clearly Punk has moved the needle somewhat considering how piss weak the card was.


----------



## Martyn

Great rating, but hardly deserved this week. Last weeks show was tremendous and should have had this many eyeballs watching.


----------



## The XL 2

That's a solid rating, but that show might come back to bite them.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Excellent number. Show was mediocre, but Punk drawing yet again. 

Quarters though will be good to see as usual.


----------



## fabi1982

So basically the same rating as Friday at 10pm?


----------



## 3venflow

The new Demo God:


----------



## Chan Hung

Solid number for a very horrible show. Lets see how they do next week though. If it goes down, the many jobbers and matchups clearly turned off people, if it stays the same or actually gets higher then damn i guess that's why AEW is on cruise control.


----------



## ShadowCounter

If they draw that throughout the show with that weak ass second hour they could do even higher with a stacked card.


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## Erik.

Back above a mill.


----------



## DaSlacker

Maybe I'm reading it wrong but it seems like 1.2 live is their ceiling. Unless they can pull in WWE numbers in the 50+ demo. If they did they would be in the 1.5 million viewers range.


----------



## fabi1982

Didnt a lot of people say this will be the week they beat RAW in the demo? So Punks impact already declining?


----------



## 3venflow

It was actually the third most viewed Dynamite ever on top of the second highest in the 18-49 demo. Astonishing considering the card. Punk is obviously to be credited, but he was only out for one quarter so it'll be interesting to see what else performed.

I think All Out will break AEW's PPV buyrate record again to see Punk's first match in seven years.


----------



## Mr316

1.2 means they can potentially get 1.5 million for their show in NYC. But that’s if their shows are good leading to NYC and if they can hold 1.2.


----------



## RapShepard

Dynamite last week- 975k .35 demo

Dynamite this week- 1.172 million .48 demo

Punk draw week 1- +197k viewers +.13 demo


----------



## DaSlacker

fabi1982 said:


> Didnt a lot of people say this will be the week they beat RAW in the demo? So Punks impact already declining?


No idea but if they do it will be for Danielson's debut on the 22nd of September. Like last year that was WWE's SummerSlam bounce, but they don't have much happening on Raw until the draft in October.


----------



## Joe Gill

I think someone like CM Punk probably has around 50-100k hardcore followers who will watch anything he is involved in. Right now it looks like AEW got a bump of around 200k viewers... those numbers will come down a bit and probably settle around 50 - 80k new AEW fans watching Dynamite. CM Punk does move the needle a little... just not in the same way someone like Austin, Rock or Cena move the needle. Where Punk will really pay off is PPV.. if 10-20 percent of his followers order ppvs to see him that will significantly bump ppv buy rates. Combine that with merchandise sales I think CM Punk was a great investment by TK...but anyone who thinks this will lead to AEW surpassing WWE in popularity is delusional.


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> It was actually the third most viewed Dynamite ever on top of the second highest in the 18-49 demo. Astonishing considering the card. Punk is obviously to be credited, but he was only out for one quarter so it'll be interesting to see what else performed.
> 
> I think All Out will break AEW's PPV buyrate record again to see Punk's first match in seven years.


Yup should be in swinging distance of 200k. I'll go 187k


----------



## RubberbandGoat

EMGESP said:


> They didn't edit out Punk's D-bry tease on the official upload on AEW youtube channel. So I guess Tony isn't mad or trying to hide anything.


How did he tease it?


----------



## Borko

With both Punk and Bryan maybe they can do 1.3 a few times, and for the time being I think that's their ceiling. Hopefully I am wrong


----------



## RapShepard

RubberbandGoat said:


> How did he tease it?


Crowd did yes chants, he said that's somebody else's schtick, be patient.


----------



## RainmakerV2

This about feels like their ceiling. Maybe 1.2 or 1.3 with a bigger card.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ah, ok number

thought it would be more

but i guess who can complain about being number 1


----------



## The_Great_One21

Not exactly a big number. An extra 100k people maybe?

Disappointing.


----------



## rbl85

Tell me if it's stupid but i went on youtube and search for the reaction to CM punk last night and because of that i knew that the rating wasn't going to be ground breaking.

A really high amount of the reactions are not live reactions but peoples reacting to the video of the promo of Punk on the AEW youtube channel, which mean that a good amount of people are interested by Punk but not a lot them are watching or will watch it live.
I think we ( i count myself in) underestimate how many peoples just don't want to watch 2 hours of wrestling live but prefer to wait the next day to pick and chose what segment to watch.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Can't really do more than be number one on tv for wensday night gonna be an interesting year if they can pick up steam and raw deals with Monday night football


----------



## rbl85

The_Great_One21 said:


> Not exactly a big number. An extra 100k people maybe?
> 
> Disappointing.


200k


----------



## RapShepard

*FOR FUN*

Let's say from here on out they put on 8/10 shows or better most weeks, get Danielson, and get a hot must see story. Looking forward what do you think they could be doing come November/December with all that going for them?


----------



## Erik.

rbl85 said:


> Tell me if it's stupid but i went on youtube and search for the reaction to CM punk last night and because of that i knew that the rating wasn't going to be ground breaking.
> 
> A really high amount of the reactions are not live reactions but peoples reacting to the video of the promo of Punk on the AEW youtube channel, which mean that a good amount of people are interested by Punk but not a lot them are watching or will watch it live.
> I think we ( i count myself in) underestimate how many peoples just don't want to watch 2 hours of wrestling live but prefer to wait the next day to pick and chose what segment to watch.


Been saying the same thing since day one. 

There are Punk fans. And there are AEW fans. 

A lot of these Punk fans are already watching AEW - the other lot will just watch Punk.


----------



## Geeee

It's crazy that this was an ehh Dynamite that was #1 for the evening, that got one of the highest number of viewers ever for Dynamite and it still feels like a disappointment. I didn't think it would beat Raw but I thought maybe 1.3?

At least, since it was mostly the same people watching, I'm not so concerned about the quality of last night's show. Although, I have a feeling that last quarter is going to be rough


----------



## Erik.

RapShepard said:


> *FOR FUN*
> 
> Let's say from here on out they put on 8/10 shows or better most weeks, get Danielson, and get a hot must see story. Looking forward what do you think they could be doing come November/December with all that going for them?


1.2


----------



## DaSlacker

Joe Gill said:


> I think someone like CM Punk probably has around 50-100k hardcore followers who will watch anything he is involved in. Right now it looks like AEW got a bump of around 200k viewers... those numbers will come down a bit and probably settle around 50 - 80k new AEW fans watching Dynamite. CM Punk does move the needle a little... just not in the same way someone like Austin, Rock or Cena move the needle. Where Punk will really pay off is PPV.. if 10-20 percent of his followers order ppvs to see him that will significantly bump ppv buy rates. Combine that with merchandise sales I think CM Punk was a great investment by TK...but anyone who thinks this will lead to AEW surpassing WWE in popularity is delusional.


They won't surpass WWE. Surpassing their 2 million viewers is a very tall order. Getting more than 80 million YouTube subscribers this side of 2030 is impossible. 

However, they can keep growing as a brand and provider of quality pro wrestling every week. They can grow as a league that houses dozens of popular wrestlers. They have a hell of a lot of fresh matches that mean something, at their disposal.


----------



## rbl85

DaSlacker said:


> They won't surpass WWE. Surpassing their 2 million viewers is a very tall order. Getting more than 80 million YouTube subscribers this side of 2030 is impossible.
> 
> However, they can keep growing as a brand and provider of quality pro wrestling every week. They can grow as a league that houses dozens of popular wrestlers. They have a hell of a lot of fresh matches that mean something, at their disposal.


RAW is more 1.7-1.8 (Most of the time) but it's more in the demo that AEW can beat them (sometime)


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> Tell me if it's stupid but i went on youtube and search for the reaction to CM punk last night and because of that i knew that the rating wasn't going to be ground breaking.
> 
> A really high amount of the reactions are not live reactions but peoples reacting to the video of the promo of Punk on the AEW youtube channel, which mean that a good amount of people are interested by Punk but not a lot them are watching or will watch it live.
> I think we ( i count myself in) underestimate how many peoples just don't want to watch 2 hours of wrestling live but prefer to wait the next day to pick and chose what segment to watch.


I don't think you're wrong, but I think it is these wrestling companies fault that folk take that method instead.


----------



## taker_2004

RapShepard said:


> *FOR FUN*
> 
> Let's say from here on out they put on 8/10 shows or better most weeks, get Danielson, and get a hot must see story. Looking forward what do you think they could be doing come November/December with all that going for them?


Yeah, like @Erik. , I think it'd be around 1.25 million.

I think people severely underestimate how impressive any growth at all is on cable or TV in general now-a-days. Leading Networks (FOX is generally the exception) and their family of channels are all facing upwards of 30% erosion year-over-year. At this point, low single-digit losses are considered gains because you're retaining viewers in a collapsing market.


----------



## DaSlacker

rbl85 said:


> RAW is more 1.7-1.8 (Most of the time) but it's more in the demo that AEW can beat them (sometime)


Definitely. That's doable because it feels like WWE is gaining a reputation as wrestling for the older viewers and vice versa for AEW.


----------



## RapShepard

Erik. said:


> 1.2





taker_2004 said:


> Yeah, like @Erik. , I think it'd be around 1.25 million.
> 
> I think people severely underestimate how impressive any growth at all is on cable or TV in general now-a-days. Leading Networks (FOX is generally the exception) and their family of channels are all facing upwards of 30% erosion year-over-year. At this point, low single-digit losses are considered gains because you're retaining viewers in a collapsing market.


Sheesh lol, I get what you saying tho.


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> I don't think you're wrong, but I think it is these wrestling companies fault that folk take that method instead.


Of course it's their job to find a way to make those peoples want to watch 2 hours (or worst 3 hours) of wrestling.

The problem is that more and more people who are fans of a certain wrestler will only watch when he's on. While i think that a few years ago fans were watching the shows even if their favorites weren't on.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> Of course it's their job to find a way to make those peoples want to watch 2 hours (or worst 3 hours) of wrestling.
> 
> The problem is that more and more people who are fans of a certain wrestler will only watch when he's on. While i think that a few years ago fans were watching the shows even if their favorites weren't on.


This is when the dreaded Russo had the right idea. You have interesting characters up and down the card that all have a story big or small. That way folk are encouraged to watch longer.


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> This is when the dreaded Russo had the right idea. You have interesting characters up and down the card that all have a story big or small. That way folk are encouraged to watch longer.


Maybe but now technology gives you much more options to watch a show than 15-20 years ago.


----------



## bdon

3venflow said:


> Highest viewership since April and highest demo rating since the debut show.
> 
> Great number with that card, impressive demo in particular. Clearly Punk has moved the needle somewhat considering how piss weak the card was.


1.172m watched AEW fall on their wedding day.



rbl85 said:


> Tell me if it's stupid but i went on youtube and search for the reaction to CM punk last night and because of that i knew that the rating wasn't going to be ground breaking.
> 
> A really high amount of the reactions are not live reactions but peoples reacting to the video of the promo of Punk on the AEW youtube channel, which mean that a good amount of people are interested by Punk but not a lot them are watching or will watch it live.
> I think we ( i count myself in) underestimate how many peoples just don't want to watch 2 hours of wrestling live but prefer to wait the next day to pick and chose what segment to watch.


Well, here’s a rare goddamn idea: PUT YOUR BEST GODDAMN TALENT ON THE TV AND MAYBE MORE PEOPLE WON’T FEEL THE NEED TO JUST YOUTUBE THE ONE SEGMENT WITH ANYONE WORTH A GODDAMN!


----------



## DaSlacker

rbl85 said:


> Tell me if it's stupid but i went on youtube and search for the reaction to CM punk last night and because of that i knew that the rating wasn't going to be ground breaking.
> 
> A really high amount of the reactions are not live reactions but peoples reacting to the video of the promo of Punk on the AEW youtube channel, which mean that a good amount of people are interested by Punk but not a lot them are watching or will watch it live.
> I think we ( i count myself in) underestimate how many peoples just don't want to watch 2 hours of wrestling live but prefer to wait the next day to pick and chose what segment to watch.


I'd estimate at least 20% of AEW's total reach in North America on a semi regular basis, consists of people who have never watched it live on TNT or live in the traditional way - i.e they DVR, watch via illegal streams, check highlights on YouTube.

The number will be much higher in the international markets.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> Maybe but now technology gives you so much more options to watch a show than 15-20 years ago.


For sure, but women's reality shows and talent shows prove you can still make appointment TV viewing. You just have to get what your audience wants perfect. It's just how does wrestling do their version of that. Eventually some genius will come along and figure it out.


----------



## taker_2004

RapShepard said:


> Sheesh lol, I get what you saying tho.


Ha, do you think we're being too conservative? 

Honestly, knowing a fair bit about the telecom industry, my perspective is that if AEW plays their hand decently over the next 3-5 years, it will maintain or slightly grow its US cable viewership, while WWE's continues to erode. Expecting double-digit growth on traditional linear cable is just unrealistic given most of those subscribers are either cutting the cord or croaking. 

Say WWE loses just 5% of its current viewership year-over-year. In 5 years, SmackDown would have an audience of ~1.3-1.5 million. RAW's would be almost under a million. Triple H was correct in saying it's a race of endurance, not a sprint.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DaSlacker said:


> Maybe I'm reading it wrong but it seems like 1.2 live is their ceiling. Unless they can pull in WWE numbers in the 50+ demo. If they did they would be in the 1.5 million viewers range.


Yep. Seems like this (1.1) is the ceiling.


----------



## taker_2004

RapShepard said:


> For sure, but women's reality shows and talent shows prove you can still make appointment TV viewing. You just have to get what your audience wants perfect. It's just how does wrestling do their version of that. Eventually some genius will come along and figure it out.


Yeah, that really is the key now-a-days, event or appointment TV. Unfortunately, it's harder and harder to generate the type of "water cooler talk" that compels people to watch an event live or soon thereafter. I guess Game of Thrones was probably the last non-sport example, with the SuperBowl obviously being the Opus Magnum. Even major awards shows like the Grammy's are tanking in live viewership and have actually generated losses for the last few years. 

The only way I could see it being remotely done by WWE is if WrestleMania gets simulcast on NBC, and they put on a legitimate half-time show and performances scattered throughout. They could go with current/up-and-coming artists (I dunno, Doja, Ariana, Post Malone, whatever), or legends. They'd have to leverage music IMO, because wrestling matches themselves even with an icon like The Rock will not be "must-see" TV in the foreseeable future. Gotta use the peripheral meme- or news-worthy content to generate the casual interest IMO.


----------



## RapShepard

taker_2004 said:


> Ha, do you think we're being too conservative?
> 
> Honestly, knowing a fair bit about the telecom industry, my perspective is that if AEW plays their hand decently over the next 3-5 years, it will maintain or slightly grow its US cable viewership, while WWE's continues to erode. Expecting double-digit growth on traditional linear cable is just unrealistic given most of those subscribers are either cutting the cord or croaking.
> 
> Say WWE loses just 5% of its current viewership year-over-year. In 5 years, SmackDown would have an audience of ~1.3-1.5 million. RAW's would be almost under a million. Triple H was correct in saying it's a race of endurance, not a sprint.


Not really though I'd expect a more optimistic 1.4 or 1.5 lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> *FOR FUN*
> 
> Let's say from here on out they put on 8/10 shows or better most weeks, get Danielson, and get a hot must see story. Looking forward what do you think they could be doing come November/December with all that going for them?


hard to say.

i find myself caring less and less about ratings.

they’ve got Punk / Bryan - nxt has moved, they have a second show - so the ‘will they survive, won’t they‘ is out the window. There is no question about their continuance

added to that, they are top 3 of the night more often than not

so i’m kinda 🤷‍♂️ About ratings - maybe this is what Wed looks like no matter who they bring in or what they do - give or take 150k swings up or down.

i don’t see Danielson bringing in more than 150k viewers longterm


----------



## RapShepard

taker_2004 said:


> Yeah, that really is the key now-a-days, event or appointment TV. Unfortunately, it's harder and harder to generate the type of "water cooler talk" that compels people to watch an event live or soon thereafter. I guess Game of Thrones was probably the last non-sport example, with the SuperBowl obviously being the Opus Magnum. Even major awards shows like the Grammy's are tanking in live viewership and have actually generated losses for the last few years.
> 
> The only way I could see it being remotely done by WWE is if WrestleMania gets simulcast on NBC, and they put on a legitimate half-time show and performances scattered throughout. They could go with current/up-and-coming artists (I dunno, Doja, Ariana, Post Malone, whatever), or legends. They'd have to leverage music IMO, because wrestling matches themselves even with an icon like The Rock will not be "must-see" TV in the foreseeable future. Gotta use the peripheral meme- or news-worthy content to generate the casual interest IMO.


Not a bad idea actually. Though which music act to get is hard. Because wrestling fans aren't typically into performances unless it's for an entrance.


----------



## taker_2004

RapShepard said:


> Not a bad idea actually. Though which music act to get is hard. Because wrestling fans aren't typically into performances unless it's for an entrance.


Exactly. It's also a surprisingly diverse crowd usually (lots of AAs and Latinos). Do you go for modern/urban? Or get someone like George Strait? lol Hard to tell.


----------



## Dark Emperor

I'm sorry but that is a terrible rating. 

The majority of us were predicting them getting close to matching Debut number of 1.4m with all the hype Punk was drawing online. 

If this is the rating for his first live show, then chances are they'll be back under 1m within a few weeks.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dark Emperor said:


> *I'm sorry* but that is a terrible rating.
> 
> The majority of us were predicting them getting close to matching Debut number of 1.4m with all the hype Punk was drawing online.
> 
> If this is the rating for his first live show, then chances are they'll be back under 1m within a few weeks.


are you though?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

taker_2004 said:


> Ha, do you think we're being too conservative?
> 
> Honestly, knowing a fair bit about the telecom industry, my perspective is that if AEW plays their hand decently over the next 3-5 years, it will maintain or slightly grow its US cable viewership, while WWE's continues to erode. Expecting double-digit growth on traditional linear cable is just unrealistic given most of those subscribers are either cutting the cord or croaking.
> 
> Say WWE loses just 5% of its current viewership year-over-year. In 5 years, SmackDown would have an audience of ~1.3-1.5 million. RAW's would be almost under a million. Triple H was correct in saying it's a race of endurance, not a sprint.


what hot streaming service do you think would fit AEW?

HBO Max a likely home one day?


----------



## EMGESP

What would it take to surpass the 1.4 million viewership they topped out at on the debut Dynamite? Who would they need or is it really just a certain age group who will never give AEW a chance?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*The needle wasn't moved. 

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1430985518037176321*


----------



## Dark Emperor

LifeInCattleClass said:


> are you though?


Hehe, got me there


----------



## DaSlacker

RapShepard said:


> This is when the dreaded Russo had the right idea. You have interesting characters up and down the card that all have a story big or small. That way folk are encouraged to watch longer.


Thing is, ratings were never the be-all and end-all for wrestling until Raw and Nitro went head to head. Apart from in the dying days of JCP, when that war with McMahon peaked.

Episodes of wrestling were just one aspect of a bigger picture and therefore booked conservatively. There was no obsession with making each episode more memorable than the last one. Houseshows, televised super cards, PPVs, merchandise... It was all on equal footing. 

Thesedays they have to balance building/maintain the brand with the TV fees bonanza. Sacrifing all to chase after viewership in a world were viewing habits are very complex is...a fools game. I mean, it's not like they haven't done big things on Dynamite. But they were big because they built to them at a decent pace. 

That's were Russo screwed up. He had all these characters and little stories. But believable wrestling has a small window. So he fell back on swerves, turns, title changes, gimmick matches, contrived situations. In the long term eroding the fan base and having nowhere to turn.


----------



## Garty

Until Punk has a match on Dynamite, some viewers will only watch his promo and tune out the remainder of the show when his time is done. The long-term benefits will far outweigh the short-term pops.


----------



## holy

I hate to be "that guy", but 1.2 million viewers is a disappointment. Didn't they hit that number a few months ago when they went unopposed from NXT for the first time?

And sorry, but if there were a huge amount of viewers waiting with bated breath for Punk to speak, that excitement would've reflected in the viewership. People wouldn't wait till the highlights came on YouTube. And I say that with no disrespect intended towards Punk. I myself tuned in through all the first hour of horseshit just to get to Punk.


----------



## Mr316

EMGESP said:


> What would it take to surpass the 1.4 million viewership they topped out at on the debut Dynamite? Who would they need or is it really just a certain age group who will never give AEW a chance?


Just a better show.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

RapShepard said:


> *FOR FUN*
> 
> Let's say from here on out they put on 8/10 shows or better most weeks, get Danielson, and get a hot must see story. Looking forward what do you think they could be doing come November/December with all that going for them?


Maybe 1.3 or 1.4 max imo nothing too dramatic

People underplay these numbers and as fans we expect too much sometimes. Cable is dying but AEW is seeing gradual growth


----------



## ShadowCounter

The Legit DMD said:


> *The needle wasn't moved.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1430985518037176321*


Wait until we see the quarter hours before thinking that.


----------



## RapShepard

DaSlacker said:


> Thing is, ratings were never the be-all and end-all for wrestling until Raw and Nitro went head to head. Apart from in the dying days of JCP, when that war with McMahon peaked.
> 
> Episodes of wrestling were just one aspect of a bigger picture and therefore booked conservatively. There was no obsession with making each episode more memorable than the last one. Houseshows, televised super cards, PPVs, merchandise... It was all on equal footing.
> 
> Thesedays they have to balance building/maintain the brand with the TV fees bonanza. Sacrifing all to chase after viewership in a world were viewing habits are very complex is...a fools game. I mean, it's not like they haven't done big things on Dynamite. But they were big because they built to them at a decent pace.
> 
> That's were Russo screwed up. He had all these characters and little stories. But believable wrestling has a small window. So he fell back on swerves, turns, title changes, gimmick matches, contrived situations. In the long term eroding the fan base and having nowhere to turn.


Oh I'm not suggesting for the wackiest of Russo approach. Just the reasonable "hey let's make everybody matter, relative to their position" part. It might not have all been A1 stories but even someone like Boss man was constantly doing something fucked up to justify why he needed his ass kicked in one of the early PPV match spots.


----------



## taker_2004

LifeInCattleClass said:


> what hot streaming service do you think would fit AEW?
> 
> HBO Max a likely home one day?


Possibly. It depends what WarnerMedia-Disovery, the new company AT&T spun off after the acquisition of Discovery, decide to do with their sports programming and whether they consider AEW entertainment. Right now there's HBO Max, Discovery+ and Bleacher Report. It'll probably end up on the first, but for now probably free on Bleacher Report. 

Note: They've had AEW repeats on _B/R Live_ since basically the beginning, staggered by about a month after broadcast. Now that app has been discontinued and video content being migrated to the base Bleacher Report app, where it will be housed for the foreseeable future.


----------



## Han Popo

The excuses have already started. A well booked wrestling show will always draw more viewers. Punk comes back after 7 years and they draw those pathetic numbers. Embarrassing.


----------



## yeahright2

Ratings are in
AEW Ratings prediction game

As expected, there was an increase, but not of the magnitude we expected.. I guess Punk isn´t a draw to people who aren´t already watching Dynamite? And even if he is, then TK failed big time to cash in on the buzz and keep the people for the entire show.
Anyway, @3venflow stole my win, congratulations to him


----------



## RapShepard

taker_2004 said:


> Exactly. It's also a surprisingly diverse crowd usually (lots of AAs and Latinos). Do you go for modern/urban? Or get someone like George Strait? lol Hard to tell.


Maybe if you go with a blend of metal and rap/r&b. Because a lot of wrestling fans still just aren't hip to the latter. It wasn't just here that I seem wrestling fans go "Who the fuck is Bad Bunny". 

But for sure make sure it's somebody that's at least kinda into wrestling. Maybe Fozzy for the rock part.


----------



## RapShepard

EMGESP said:


> What would it take to surpass the 1.4 million viewership they topped out at on the debut Dynamite? Who would they need or is it really just a certain age group who will never give AEW a chance?


Penelope Ford and Thunder Rosa live sex celebration.


----------



## taker_2004

RapShepard said:


> Maybe if you go with a blend of metal and rap/r&b.


What about Achey Breaky Heart followed by Old Town Road? 🤣 

Would satisfy the line-dancing folks and the rest of us.


----------



## RapShepard

taker_2004 said:


> What about Achey Breaky Heart followed by Old Town Road? [emoji1787]
> 
> Would satisfy the line-dancing folks and the rest of us.


I actually did the Achy Breaky heart dance for a music project lol. So I'm in [emoji23]


----------



## DaSlacker

RapShepard said:


> Penelope Ford and Thunder Rosa live sex celebration.


Not bad. I'd replace Thunder with Conti. Though society is so fucked up that Vickie and Nyla would draw more viewers lol. 

Plus this is AEW. A live sex celebration will last for 20 mins, feature some bizarre comedy and spam every position possible.


----------



## RapShepard

DaSlacker said:


> Not bad. I'd replace Thunder with Conti. Though society is so fucked up that Vickie and Nyla would draw more viewers lol.
> 
> Plus this is AEW. A live sex celebration will last for 20 mins, feature some bizarre comedy and spam every position possible.


Lol


----------



## elo

RapShepard said:


> Dynamite last week- 975k .35 demo
> 
> Dynamite this week- 1.172 million .48 demo
> 
> Punk draw week 1- +197k viewers +.13 demo


It'll be very interesting to see what kind of average they hold for September - all the fuckery resumes come October with the NBA and NHL seasons starting so it's now or (not until the Jan move) time to increase the baseline audience. They need to book a rock solid month, I'd be laying it all out right now and schedule a minimum of 2 quality match ups every Dynamite for the month - go for it all. The NYC show to end the month is where you make the title change, Kenny drops to Hangman, (I don't think they will do this but they should) Danielson debuts and Punk has his first TV match in 7 years.

September is the most important month in AEWs history since it's inception.


----------



## RapShepard

elo said:


> It'll be very interesting to see what kind of average they hold for September - all the fuckery resumes come October with the NBA and NHL seasons starting so it's now or (not until the Jan move) time to increase the baseline audience. They need to book a rock solid month, I'd be laying it all out right now and schedule a minimum of 2 quality match ups every Dynamite for the month - go for it all. The NYC show to end the month is where you make the title change, Kenny drops to Hangman, (I don't think they will do this but they should) Danielson debuts and Punk has his first TV match in 7 years.
> 
> This is the most important month in AEWs history since it's inception.


As an armchair promoter worth billions, that sounds like a solid damn plan to me.


----------



## rbl85

DaSlacker said:


> Not bad. I'd replace Thunder with Conti. Though society is so fucked up that Vickie and Nyla would draw more viewers lol.
> 
> Plus this is AEW. A live sex celebration will last for 20 mins, feature some bizarre comedy and spam every position possible.


And a lot of kick out


----------



## Erik.

To say the needle wasn't moved when they just got their highest demo since their debut show nearly 2 years ago is reaching abit.

You SAW the card. They let you know exactly what the show is going to have. They told us QT Marshall would have a match that included Colten Gunn. They told us Brock Anderson was having a match. And we STILL got that number.

Because of Punk.

They told us next weeks card too. And it's better than this weeks. So we'll see.


----------



## RLT1981

1.1 is dispointing no doubt about it they have done that before so Punk did'n bring in any new fans in and it was the people who is already watching AEW such a shame oh well.


----------



## rbl85

Erik. said:


> To say the needle wasn't moved when they just got their highest demo since their debut show nearly 2 years ago is reaching abit.
> 
> You SAW the card. They let you know exactly what the show is going to have. They told us QT Marshall would have a match that included Colten Gunn. They told us Brock Anderson was having a match. And we STILL got that number.
> 
> Because of Punk.
> 
> They told us next weeks card too. And it's better than this weeks. So we'll see.


Next week card is looking very good and i'm sure that it's going to get better


----------



## RLT1981

rbl85 said:


> Next week card is looking very good and i'm sure that it's going to get better


don't really matter Punk has proving to not to be needle mover this show did 1.1 million viewers they done that before without Punk so Punk has proven not to be a needie mover which shocked me cause I thought he would bring in a ton of viewers but no same ole same ole.


----------



## rbl85

RLT1981 said:


> don't really matter Punk has proving to not to be needle mover this show did 1.1 million viewers they done that before without Punk so Punk has proven not to be a needie mover which shocked me cause I thought he would bring in a ton of viewers but no same ole same ole.


Nice and all but i 'm talking about next week card and not Punk.


----------



## AnonymousOne

RLT1981 said:


> don't really matter Punk has proving to not to be needle mover this show did 1.1 million viewers they done that before without Punk so Punk has proven not to be a needie mover which shocked me cause I thought he would bring in a ton of viewers but no same ole same ole.


To be fair this card was absolutely atrocious


----------



## Cube2

EMGESP said:


> What would it take to surpass the 1.4 million viewership they topped out at on the debut Dynamite? Who would they need or is it really just a certain age group who will never give AEW a chance?


better creative


----------



## RLT1981

AnonymousOne said:


> To be fair this card was absolutely atrocious


don't matter Punk should have atleast drew some new viewers in for this week giving all the hype and nothing.Its just proves the fans who was excited for Punk was already watching AEW which is disappointing.


----------



## rbl85

RLT1981 said:


> don't matter Punk should have atleast drew some new viewers in for this week giving all the hype and nothing.Its just proves the fans who was excited for Punk was already watching AEW which sucks.


20 years ago he would have.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Damn I guess I was right, I said Punk would improve viewership by around 200k max. Some of the suggestions that they'd be getting numbers like 1.5 with Punk on the show were ridiculous, he can bring a small amount of fans in but he's not that big of a draw.


----------



## ClintDagger

Basically Punk can attract all of the current AEW fans but can’t bring in any new fans. For what they’re paying him that has to be extremely disappointing.


----------



## RLT1981

rbl85 said:


> 20 years ago he would have.


I agree there wrestling being dead to the casuals has hurt I was hoping Punk would bring some back but no.I'm still team AEW through but this past week was a wake call and told AEW might be stuck with a million viewers no matter how good they get which is fine aslong as they keep putting on good shows for the fans.


----------



## DaSlacker

Still, WarnerMedia has a brand on its books that provides 3 hours of content with: 


Upwards of 1 million viewers live
Upwards 0.40 demo
Upwards of 600,000 viewers (i.e what Rampage will eventually average imo) in a difficult slot

That's exclusive rights to the brand for a fraction of what Raw/NXT costs for half the rights to the WWE brand.


----------



## RLT1981

ClintDagger said:


> Basically Punk can attract all of the current AEW fans but can’t bring in any new fans. For what they’re paying him that has to be extremely disappointing.


agreed I have now accept that wrestling is a nickle audence now and drawing in the casuals that have giving up is not happening cause If Punk can't do it who was the hottest FA in wrestling than noone can.


----------



## rich110991

I was expecting more but that’s the way it goes 😂 Still love AEW and Punk.


----------



## 3venflow

Warner gushing about last night's rating. There has been a lot of 'how much does the 18-49 matter?' debate on this forum (usually via The Wood arguing against it), but it's clear that is the target demo and Punk has given AEW a boost in that department.

They put the P2 rating at 1.2m, but I guess they rounded up for effect.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Penelope Ford and Thunder Rosa live sex celebration.


*Better choices would be Anna Jay and The Bunny.*


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> *Better choices would be Anna Jay and The Bunny.*


Nah this is an inclusive company. Cody saved the world with a mixed baby. Rosa and Ford save it with LBGT love


----------



## RLT1981

The Legit DMD said:


> *Better choices would be Anna Jay and The Bunny.*


Anna Jay vs The Bunny in Ultimate Surrender would draw huge ratings!🤪


----------



## 3venflow

Orange Cassidy outdrew CM Punk 😱 😱 😱


----------



## Whoanma

3venflow said:


> Orange Cassidy outdrew CM Punk 😱 😱 😱
> 
> View attachment 107073


----------



## yeahright2

3venflow said:


> Orange Cassidy outdrew CM Punk 😱 😱 😱
> 
> View attachment 107073


I´m guessing people expected Punk to open the show.


----------



## reamstyles

RLT1981 said:


> 1.1 is dispointing no doubt about it they have done that before so Punk did'n bring in any new fans in and it was the people who is already watching AEW such a shame oh well.


I think they just bring some casuals to subscribe on their social media accounts.. the buzz of punk reach to casuals but to the point that they only watch his youtube highlights not the show itself..


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

yeahright2 said:


> I´m guessing people expected Punk to open the show.


*Yep, the decline was steady after his promo. They need to stop putting all their eggs into the Punk basket and continue to make quality programming. *


----------



## reamstyles

RLT1981 said:


> agreed I have now accept that wrestling is a nickle audence now and drawing in the casuals that have giving up is not happening cause If Punk can't do it who was the hottest FA in wrestling than noone can.


Stroyline with stars makes people watch wrestling. Not star alone who doesnt have any high level program to work to..it isnt punk versus roman or stone cold its freaking punk vs "who?" in eyes of casuals..


----------



## Mr316

3venflow said:


> Orange Cassidy outdrew CM Punk 😱 😱 😱
> 
> View attachment 107073


No. People were expecting Punk to open the show and they switched channel. Some came back for Punk.


----------



## Randy Lahey

The demos are great. And you have to consider The Challenge really eats in to their female demo. If AEW can stay hot, ,and I think they will by staggering the future debuts, when The Challenge goes off the air I think their demos will be consistently higher than Raw.

I am surprised that Rampage did a higher demo than Dynamite though. Considering how late it was on a friday night.


----------



## La Parka

Randy Lahey said:


> The demos are great. And you have to consider The Challenge really eats in to their female demo. If AEW can stay hot, ,and I think they will by staggering the future debuts, when The Challenge goes off the air I think their demos will be consistently higher than Raw.
> 
> I am surprised that Rampage did a higher demo than Dynamite though. Considering how late it was on a friday night.


When the challenge goes off the air, NHL, NBA, MLB, NFL and college sports will all be going on. Survivor will also be coming back (Wednesday night reality show) and who knows what will be in the news in the coming months.

There’s always going to be something else on, hoping that nothing happens In the world is just not realistic.


----------



## Randy Lahey

3venflow said:


> Orange Cassidy outdrew CM Punk 😱 😱 😱
> 
> View attachment 107073


See that's why they should have had Punk lead off the show. OC didn't pull that number. It was people tuning in to see Punk. The lead in was so much stronger than a couple weeks ago that I think you'd have really popped a bigger number if you have Punk leadoff the show.

They should have stacked the 1st hour with the best stuff and put the boring stuff in the 2nd hour when viewership usually falls off. The Omega/Christian/Callis segment should have been in the 1st hour. That deserved a way higher rating.

The Demos really did fall off after Punk spoke though.


----------



## Randy Lahey

ClintDagger said:


> Basically Punk can attract all of the current AEW fans but can’t bring in any new fans. For what they’re paying him that has to be extremely disappointing.


Are you retarded? Punk just paid for his entire contract by selling out the United Center last Friday night. Rampage did a 0.31 on its DEBUT show that had 3 killer matches on it. CM Punk debuts the next week, and it does a 0.53. 

CM Punk brought plenty of newer younger viewers, because they are into him. The old WWE demo isn't, but TV deals aren't based on how many 50+ year olds you're pulling in. It's based on 18-49 and mainly 18-34


----------



## RLT1981

Randy Lahey said:


> Are you retarded? Punk just paid for his entire contract by selling out the United Center last Friday night. Rampage did a 0.31 on its DEBUT show that had 3 killer matches on it. CM Punk debuts the next week, and it does a 0.53.
> 
> CM Punk brought plenty of newer younger viewers, because they are into him. The old WWE demo isn't, but TV deals aren't based on how many 50+ year olds you're pulling in. It's based on 18-49 and mainly 18-34


keep telling yourself that I'm AEW fan just like you but I have to call it fair its a fact Punk did'n draw any new fans the 1.1 is the same ratings they have done in the past and noway Tony is happy paying Punk all that money to get tv ratings he was already getting.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I'm not surprised.



ShadowCounter said:


> If they draw that throughout the show with that weak ass second hour they could do even higher with a stacked card.


Nope. The time to strike with a stacked card (Or even just an appealing one) was yesterday. The people that tuned in yesterday and stuck with the show were left with a bad taste in their mouth and most likely won't be back.



rbl85 said:


> Tell me if it's stupid but i went on youtube and search for the reaction to CM punk last night and because of that i knew that the rating wasn't going to be ground breaking.
> 
> A really high amount of the reactions are not live reactions but peoples reacting to the video of the promo of Punk on the AEW youtube channel, which mean that a good amount of people are interested by Punk but not a lot them are watching or will watch it live.
> I think we ( i count myself in) underestimate how many peoples just don't want to watch 2 hours of wrestling live but prefer to wait the next day to pick and chose what segment to watch.


Ah, we're back to this argument.

Straight up, Rampage got a huge rating didn't it? People will tune in if interest is high enough. Punk and the jobber gang wasn't enough and never was going to be enough to get a big TV audience.

Admittedly I'm surprised how low it is.



RapShepard said:


> *FOR FUN*
> 
> Let's say from here on out they put on 8/10 shows or better most weeks, get Danielson, and get a hot must see story. Looking forward what do you think they could be doing come November/December with all that going for them?


1.1 million. A majority of the audience has given up on them and lost faith in the team there. 

Compare it to normal television shows, if Breaking Bad had a super shitty Season 1 and Season 2 then kicked off Season 3 with a stinker episode but finally started firing and kicking ass midway through Season 3 do you think they'd bring the audience back? No. People have already made up their minds that Breaking Bad is garbage.

Same deal here. AEW has been pretty poor for the majority of it's TV run with flashes of good shows. Your typical fan knows that AEW is eventually going to let them down so why even bother?



RapShepard said:


> This is when the dreaded Russo had the right idea. You have interesting characters up and down the card that all have a story big or small. That way folk are encouraged to watch longer.


People shit on Russo but he would improve AEW. That's how bad their writing is.



EMGESP said:


> What would it take to surpass the 1.4 million viewership they topped out at on the debut Dynamite? Who would they need or is it really just a certain age group who will never give AEW a chance?


They'll never reach it again unless they sign an absolute mega star. Unfortunately for AEW there aren't many of those left.

Rock returning to wrestle for them or Cena debuting on AEW could do it. It's not about age groups or people not giving AEW a chance they've already sampled AEW and have been unimpressed.



Erik. said:


> To say the needle wasn't moved when they just got their highest demo since their debut show nearly 2 years ago is reaching abit.
> 
> You SAW the card. They let you know exactly what the show is going to have. They told us QT Marshall would have a match that included Colten Gunn. They told us Brock Anderson was having a match. And we STILL got that number.
> 
> Because of Punk.
> 
> They told us next weeks card too. And it's better than this weeks. So we'll see.


You literally argued a week ago that Punk wasn't a draw.



3venflow said:


> Orange Cassidy outdrew CM Punk 😱 😱 😱
> 
> View attachment 107073


All this shows is that people tuned in, saw comedy goof vs old ex WWE guy, came back looking for Punk, found him and then got the fuck out of there. Bye bye 100,000+ people.


----------



## Klitschko

The Legit DMD said:


> *Better choices would be Anna Jay and The Bunny.*


----------



## Wynter

Randy Lahey said:


> Are you retarded? Punk just paid for his entire contract by selling out the United Center last Friday night. Rampage did a 0.31 on its DEBUT show that had 3 killer matches on it. CM Punk debuts the next week, and it does a 0.53.
> 
> CM Punk brought plenty of newer younger viewers, because they are into him. The old WWE demo isn't, but TV deals aren't based on how many 50+ year olds you're pulling in. It's based on 18-49 and mainly 18-34


You'd think so and I would have have predicted the same. But Brandon Thurston does livestreams after his ratings drops and he noted AEW Dynamite's 18-49 was carried by the older half, 35-49, quite a bit. At least when it came to watching live. It's probably more so fans who loved Punks career 7+ years ago. 

He theorized younger side of the demo only feels compelled to watch live when there is a sense of urgency or can't miss more than anything. Like when Punk first returned and the debut of Dynamite. They were way more prevalent those episodes. Younger side dropped a lot from rampage. 

Never thought about the breakdown of the 18-49 demo that way tbh. I subconsciously always translated that as young fans lol


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

🤣

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1431097638817091587


----------



## DammitChrist

RLT1981 said:


> keep telling yourself that I'm AEW fan just like you but I have to call it fair its a fact Punk did'n draw any new fans the 1.1 is the same ratings they have done in the past and noway Tony is happy paying Punk all that money to get tv ratings he was already getting.


Except for the fact that CM Punk did a great job with the viewership this week, and that Tony Khan is happy with the amount he's paying with here.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> *FOR FUN*
> 
> Let's say from here on out they put on 8/10 shows or better most weeks, get Danielson, and get a hot must see story. Looking forward what do you think they could be doing come November/December with all that going for them?


*Fire shows consistently with Bryan and/or Cole? 1.3*


----------



## Mister Sinister

I was right. They need new writers. They are lacking heat. The CM Punk debut didn't move the needle an inch. There is no heat, and only wrestling fanboys care about Punk.

And there is definitely no heat in Black chewing through each member of the Nightmare Family. He should have immediately moved to attacking another baby face the next week-- pick one. Follow the lead of The Outsiders angle. Have Black attack heels and faces. Make him a villain to all. Make him the enemy you would team with your enemy to battle.

Only creative can get them to break the glass ceiling in ratings.


----------



## thorn123

I am no punk guy, but I have enjoyed seeing him, but I am a big wrestling fan. I don't think many casuals will tune in for punk - i hope I am wrong. Just like I think perfect booking won't move the needle much ... casuals will only return if there is rock or cena or austin.


----------



## Klitschko

The Legit DMD said:


> *Fire shows consistently with Bryan and/or Cole? 1.3*


Cole is not a draw though. Punk only increased ratings by what, 200k or so? Cole isn't getting them to 1.3. Bryan might be possible though in my opinion.


----------



## fabi1982

So for the „just wait for the breakdown“ guys, this is really not good. Of course 1.2 wanted to see Punk at the beginning, so why didnt they reach 1.2 an hour later with Punks segment? Damn how bad can you be at promoting your biggest asset…even the lucha bros/JE got a bigger rating…


----------



## DammitChrist

fabi1982 said:


> So for the „just wait for the breakdown“ guys, this is really not good. Of course 1.2 wanted to see Punk at the beginning, so why didnt they reach 1.2 an hour later with Punks segment? Damn how bad can you be at promoting your biggest asset…even the lucha bros/JE got a bigger rating…


The fact that they retained over 1+ million viewers (even during the Factory) is honestly pretty good news. 

CM Punk definitely did his part to help out with the hype for sure


----------



## Danielallen1410

Have we got to the stage that a 1.17 million rating is seen as a bad rating??


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Orange Cassidy outdrew CM Punk 😱 😱 😱
> 
> View attachment 107073


looking at this, the biggest question they have is ‘where do we put Punk on the show - beginning, middle or end’

putting him in the middle must have been an experiment, cause their middle is usually weak


----------



## One Shed

The Legit DMD said:


> *Better choices would be Anna Jay and The Bunny.*


We can have both though, right?


----------



## holy

reamstyles said:


> Stroyline with stars makes people watch wrestling. Not star alone who doesnt have any high level program to work to..it isnt punk versus roman or stone cold its freaking punk vs "who?" in eyes of casuals..


Good point. They could've started with Punk vs...
-Mox
-Jericho
-Sting

Darby is probably not well-known among casuals.


----------



## Lesnar Turtle

RapShepard said:


> *FOR FUN*
> 
> Let's say from here on out they put on 8/10 shows or better most weeks, get Danielson, and get a hot must see story. Looking forward what do you think they could be doing come November/December with all that going for them?


Averaging around 1.2m i'd say. 

Only way I could see them breaking 1.5m consistently is if they managed to bring in someone like Cena or Brock.


----------



## Lesnar Turtle

holy said:


> Good point. They could've started with Punk vs...
> -Mox
> -Jericho
> -Sting
> 
> Darby is probably not well-known among casuals.


I'm hoping they just move on from it right after All Out. Darby/Punk is fine as a short introductory thing. If they put him into a feud with the kind of names he mentioned on Dynamite after this though...ouch. 

Jericho and Sting though..seriously? both of them are far too limited to work that kind of program at this point.


----------



## zorori

LifeInCattleClass said:


> looking at this, the biggest question they have is ‘where do we put Punk on the show - beginning, middle or end’
> 
> putting him in the middle must have been an experiment, cause their middle is usually weak


The Rampage debut was great, but they might want to experiment with showing Punk a few times on Dynamite.

It's very old school, but have him turn up outside to start the show (the old limo arriving bit, etc). Then let him do his promo in the middle of the show. And finally, he could've made an appearance in the trios match -- if they had say 2.0 or Garcia interfere and attack Darby.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Just out of curiosity does streaming services like sling go I to ratings? ..I never get to catch all of the show live due to work and usually finish it when I get home


----------



## .christopher.

There's no denying it. That's an incredibly disappointing rating. For a normal Dynamite, yes, brilliant, but for CM Punk's Dynamite DEBUT? Horrible.

That's why you don't give him a 20+ min segment on the B show doing nothing but sucking up to the fans and hyping the roster up. That brings ZERO heat to the kitchen.

And, what's worse, after that terrible Dynamite, it's probably not going to get better either.


----------



## zorori

Botchy SinCara said:


> Just out of curiosity does streaming services like sling go I to ratings? ..I never get to catch all of the show live due to work and usually finish it when I get home



Most likely not. The same goes for Fite viewers. We only really know what is popular for the American TV audience, for all we know QT Marshall might be the most over wrestler amongst the international audience.


----------



## Not Lying

The card looked shit even before Punk debuted on Friday and was added to Dynamite. Dark episode + Punk and a Y2J/MJF segment. Can't believe they had Lee Johnson run for the main event. lol. We're used to it at this point AEW.

Keep climbing the steady rise. Even this "bad" episode is better than 80% of what's on the other channel, and quality will win eventually.


----------



## reamstyles

Really should be timing and all...imo debut punk and have him a mic battle with a top heel not a guy who doesnt speak..yea darby is a good guy to be put ober but definiyely not the first one..


----------



## reamstyles

DaveRA said:


> I am no punk guy, but I have enjoyed seeing him, but I am a big wrestling fan. I don't think many casuals will tune in for punk - i hope I am wrong. Just like I think perfect booking won't move the needle much ... casuals will only return if there is rock or cena or austin.


It takes two to tango no one cares if cena returns just to squash dolph ziggler..you have a heel champion who has a stable why pit punk against him and revolve a storyline about it as punk will still look strong if he doesnt get the title becaise he is battling a top heel "stable" who will have numbers advantage against him. With back and forth storyline with surprise debut and return on both sides spice up each dynamite episode..


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Klitschko said:


> Cole is not a draw though. Punk only increased ratings by what, 200k or so? Cole isn't getting them to 1.3. Bryan might be possible though in my opinion.


*My thing is adding Cole means they have to do something interesting with The Elite, so viewership will increase by proxy of that.*


----------



## .christopher.

Well said, @reamstyles . This is simple stuff, too. Giving him a 20+ minute segment, and respectfully challenging a nobody has, to the surprise of no one who gets wrestling, done nothing but dampen the fire of what was a huge return.

Even when the nWo made their debut with a promo, which was more fitting as they had already been advertised and it was a ppv, they still ended the show attacking Stone Cold Steve fucking Austin for some heat.

There's zero heat here.


----------



## holy

Lesnar Turtle said:


> I'm hoping they just move on from it right after All Out. Darby/Punk is fine as a short introductory thing. If they put him into a feud with the kind of names he mentioned on Dynamite after this though...ouch.
> 
> Jericho and Sting though..seriously? both of them are far too limited to work that kind of program at this point.


Well the key in Punk vs Jericho or Punk vs Sting would be to create those moments. The crowd would be electric, especially for Punk vs Sting which is a dream match that comes completely out of left field: no one would have even predicted ever seeing this match, as they have never crossed paths before, if I'm not mistaken!

Keep the promos long, and the matches short.


----------



## Dr. Middy

.christopher. said:


> There's no denying it. That's an incredibly disappointing rating. For a normal Dynamite, yes, brilliant, but for CM Punk's Dynamite DEBUT? Horrible.
> 
> That's why you don't give him a 20+ min segment on the B show doing nothing but sucking up to the fans and hyping the roster up. That brings ZERO heat to the kitchen.
> 
> And, what's worse, after that terrible Dynamite, it's probably not going to get better either.


You may be one of the first people I've seen to think that segment was bad legitimately. 

I would blame more the structure of this week's Dynamite for the ratings, which while still good, wasn't as high as it probably couldn't have been. You had too many job guys, and doing Matt/OC as an opener and a lame duck Lee Johnson standing tall closing was a terrible idea. 

But what did you think was wrong with Punk's promo? Sure, he was sucking up a bit because he was ecstatic to be back, but he told you why he came back, put over some wrestler, and especially hyped up Darby Allin in the end for their match.


----------



## .christopher.

It wasn't bad when you look at in isolation, @Dr. Middy , but, when you factor in that this is CM Punk's return, it feels too lacklustre. For something so big they really should've brought him in to a hot angle straight away. Strike whilst the irons hot.


----------



## RLT1981

DammitChrist said:


> Except for the fact that CM Punk did a great job with the viewership this week, and that Tony Khan is happy with the amount he's paying with here.


its the same 1.1 million viewers they was getting before Punk he did'n bring any new viewers.

I love AEW to but we can't hide our heads in the sand and live in denial.


----------



## CovidFan

RLT1981 said:


> its the same 1.1 million viewers they was getting before Punk he did'n bring any new viewers.
> 
> I love AEW to but we can't hide our heads in the sand and live in denial.


Hard to say that going from what they were doing to a consistent 1.1M (if they can) is a bad thing. People here shouted "omg they got 1.2 when unopposed and now it's back at 800k!!!!!!! OMFG!!!!! AEW DYING!!!! THEY SHOULD BE DOING 1 MILLION CONSISTENTLY!!!!" Look at all of it but especially that last one. Going from yo-yoing between 800k-1m to a consistent 900k-1.1m would be an _improvement_ on what was (seemingly) the status quo. and I don't buy they're all the same because that's laughable.


----------



## reamstyles

Couldve been while punk is making a redux speech in dynamite kenny omega attacks in or even mjf and the pinnacle and say that I had enough of punk stealing their spotlight that what you called getting heat, introduce yourself to casuals and getting interest from viewers..


----------



## Garty

LifeInCattleClass said:


> looking at this, the biggest question they have is ‘where do we put Punk on the show - beginning, middle or end’
> 
> putting him in the middle must have been an experiment, cause their middle is usually weak


Setting up a match on Dynamite, he'd have to be in and out within the first 30 minutes. Save the match until the end of the show, see how the ratings draw and make changes based on that.

I'm sure the mentality for Dynamite was to not repeat Rampage by having Punk open the show and risk a big drop throughout the rest of the night. The end of the first hour/beginning of the second hour was/is key. By doing so it, hopefully, keeps people around, prior to and after the fact. Now, the focus needs to be on what happens between Punk's segment. Will he be advertised for every show, every week? Probably not, so that is where the focus must be.


----------



## Not Lying

Kind reminder to when people thought no crowds + TV competition weren't affecting the ratings of AEW. Yet they're averaging 350K-400K+ without them. Adding in 150k-200K with Punk now. So much experts here should have learned to stfu by now. 



RLT1981 said:


> its the same 1.1 million viewers they was getting before Punk he did'n bring any new viewers.
> 
> I love AEW to but we can't hide our heads in the sand and live in denial.


well CLEARLY it's not same people as the demo is higher for this one  so different/higher/younger demo = different people


----------



## Wynter

It was already proven in the ratings breakdown Dynamite didn't keep a lot of the younger eyes that were curious enough to check out Rampage. It was mostly 35-49 carrying that demo.

Wrestling as a whole seems to be carried by those who have either been watching for a long time or started watching years ago, but are more in and out. They will drop in to see something that sounds exciting, but harder to keep them consistently.


----------



## fabi1982

RLT1981 said:


> its the same 1.1 million viewers they was getting before Punk he did'n bring any new viewers.
> 
> I love AEW to but we can't hide our heads in the sand and live in denial.


Werent you the one proclaiming on friday, that AEW is the new king in town and after one Dynamite its already over again? Honestly thats why people cant take those hyped superfans serious. Why you dont give it time? If you really believe AEW can become no.1 you dont give up after half a week…


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Just to put something in perspective:

Last week Dynamite did 975k. This week 1.172m. That’s a 197k increase, or about a 20% increase week over week.

That’s the equivalent of Raw when it was averaging around 4.5 million, getting a 4.3 one week then the following getting the 5.16 million viewers.

That said, that alone doesn’t mean TOO much. But when you factor in that this was Dynamite’s 3rd best viewership ever, it’s a great number. Then you can also factor that last year same week they got 755k. A 55% increase! All that while TV is generally declining, and people are probably out more than they were during this time last year during pandemic.

Now while a big part of that second one is the fact live crowds are back, it’s still a great number this week no matter how you slice it.

But again, will still need to wait more to see if Punk’s presence actually consistently helps viewership. What we can ascertain at this point is his return has had a big impact so far.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

The Punk fans that cared about him were already watching AEW to begin with. 

How many single basement dweller white guys aged 30-49 are left out there to tune in?


----------



## RLT1981

fabi1982 said:


> Werent you the one proclaiming on friday, that AEW is the new king in town and after one Dynamite its already over again? Honestly thats why people cant take those hyped superfans serious. Why you dont give it time? If you really believe AEW can become no.1 you dont give up after half a week…


I'm not giving up I still think AEW is better hen WWE and will support them but I will still call it like I see it.


----------



## Mister Sinister

MJF torpedoed the ratings again this week. The go away heat is real. The rating went down 100k in Q2 and right back up almost 90k in the next quarter.


----------



## shandcraig

This proves that it doesn't matter who joins, They need to fix the product. Plus they need to move it onto hbo max. To many of people also don't watch cable


----------



## Soul Rex

That happens when you are building a 4'5 emo midget that looks like a child who never ate a a hamburger as your face of the company.  😭 😭

Give Warldow, Adam Page and Miro megapushes and get ride of these geeks and flipping vanilla midgets.


----------



## zorori

shandcraig said:


> This proves that it doesn't matter who joins, They need to fix the product. Plus they need to move it onto hbo max. To many of people also don't watch cable


IDK about HBO Max, but you're right many people just get by with a computer / tablet and don't bother with even owning a television. 

It makes you wonder how much you can really extrapolate from the numbers. For example, ~100k extra viewers might not be great; however, AEW might have also gained 100k Fite TV subscribers this month due to Punk, but we just don't know.


----------



## shandcraig

zorori said:


> IDK about HBO Max, but you're right many people just get by with a computer / tablet and don't bother with even owning a television.
> 
> It makes you wonder how much you can really extrapolate from the numbers. For example, ~100k extra viewers might not be great; however, AEW might have also gained 100k Fite TV subscribers this month due to Punk, but we just don't know.



hbomax will happen regardless if aew is still with warnermedia. hbomax will be putting more and more of its tv content on it and have to push to have sports on it as well ect ect. its a must for them as tv continues down a decline


----------



## 3venflow

AEW is running the 14,000 capacity UBS Arena in Long Island on Wednesday 8th December, a week after RAW is held there.

The Saturday Night Dynamite show at the Addition Financial Arena in Orlando (23rd October) sold 3,400 tickets on presale + day one and is configured for 6,386 fans.

The 17th November Dynamite/Rampage show at the Chartway Arena in Norfolk has sold 3,214 tickets, 87% of the 3,710 available.

Next Wednesday and Friday, AEW run the NOW Arena as part of the triple header which culminates with the sold out All Out, which is the most expensive secondary ticket market in pro wrestling history apparently.

Wednesday's Dynamite has sold around 5,550 (76% of capacity) and Rampage isn't far behind, so they're looking at 20,000+ in Chicago over the three shows.

The little talked about 15th September show in Newark continues to sell tickets and is now at 11,300 sold with less than 600 available.


----------



## TheFiend666

RLT1981 said:


> agreed I have now accept that wrestling is a nickle audence now and drawing in the casuals that have giving up is not happening cause If Punk can't do it who was the hottest FA in wrestling than noone can.


The Rock and Stone Cold can if they bought came back for another run


----------



## Not Lying

CM Punks wins the Friday youtube war again.
1,3m for Balor/Reigns (highest on SD)


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Definition of Technician said:


> View attachment 107209
> 
> 
> CM Punks wins the Friday youtube war again.
> 1,3m for Balor/Reigns (highest on SD)


982 man-childs with Roman avis crying baby tears from that video


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Definition of Technician said:


> View attachment 107209
> 
> 
> CM Punks wins the Friday youtube war again.
> 1,3m for Balor/Reigns (highest on SD)


WWE won the ratings though.


----------



## Not Lying

Chip Chipperson said:


> WWE won the ratings though.


 It’s so sad seeing AEW haters and WWE apologists cry the obvious because they can’t see further than their nose on how the landscape is changing. Keep’hanging on to those meaningless wins 😂


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Definition of Technician said:


> It’s so sad seeing AEW haters and WWE apologists cry the obvious because they can’t see further than their nose on how the landscape is changing. Keep’hanging on to those meaningless wins 😂


Ah so we're back to "Online views and streaming matters more" now are we?


----------



## Not Lying

Chip Chipperson said:


> Ah so we're back to "Online views and streaming matters more" now are we?


😂😂 nobody said that. 

I’m just bragging how a 2 year old channel with 2.5m subscribers is beating out videos by the biggest wrestling company in the world with 80m subscribers. 

Small mind who can’t see long term don’t realize how quite impressive and significant this is.


----------



## the_hound

LMAO hahaha


----------



## RapShepard

Friday Night YouTube Wars


----------



## .christopher.

Oi, stop spreading these lies. It's obvious that my boy Christian is bringing in dem viewz. Punk's leeching off Captain Charisma.


----------



## 3venflow

WWE has nearly 32 times more subscribers than AEW (81.1m vs. 2.57m) so some of those numbers are shockingly close, even the non-Punk stuff. WWE's account possibly has a lot of dormant followers like IMPACT's just from being around so long.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Friday Night YouTube Wars


*I see you getting that money through cash app while killing bad wrestling narratives 😂*


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> *I see you getting that money through cash app while killing bad wrestling narratives *


The cash app stock shit been handy the last year


----------



## RapShepard

Let's see the Rampage numbers without Punk

Rampage #1- 740k .31 demo

Dynamite 8/18- 975k .35 demo

Rampage #2 with Punk- 1.129 million .53 demo

Dynamite 8/25 with Punk- 1.172 million .48 demo

Rampage #3 no Punk- 722k .34 demo


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Let's see the Rampage numbers without Punk


i’m gonna go ahead and take a guess that its ‘less’ ?

am i right?


----------



## 3venflow

AEW Rampage

Viewers: 722,000
P18-49: 0.34

Number one on cable.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i’m gonna go ahead and take a guess that its ‘less’ ?
> 
> am i right?


I'd assume so, but how much less is the question. Doing a list of ratings right before and after Punk


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> AEW Rampage
> 
> Viewers: 722,000
> P18-49: 0.34


geez, thats a pretty good number

nice going - great demo


----------



## 3venflow

Top 50:


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Wait…. Did the demo go up??

number 1 on a friday at 22:00?????

Cutler da draw!


----------



## RapShepard

So as of now Punk is a seemingly a solid bump for Dynamite and a mega bump for Rampage. Folk will stay home on Friday for him.


----------



## Mr316

Great number.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Wait…. Did the demo go up??
> 
> number 1 on a friday at 22:00?????
> 
> Cutler da draw!


It's up compared to Rampage 1 with Kenny vs Christian, but down compared to Rampage 2 with Punk.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> It's up compared to Rampage 1 with Kenny vs Christian, but down compared to Rampage 2 with Punk.


ah, what was demo for Punk Rampage again?


----------



## RapShepard

RapShepard said:


> Let's see the Rampage numbers without Punk
> 
> Rampage #1- 740k .31 demo
> 
> Dynamite 8/18- 975k .35 demo
> 
> Rampage #2 with Punk- 1.129 million .53 demo
> 
> Dynamite 8/25 with Punk- 1.172 million .48 demo
> 
> Rampage #3 no Punk- 722k .34 demo


@LifeInCattleClass


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> @LifeInCattleClass


nice one - thanks mate

that is a very decent number for a Friday 22:00 show IMO

good on them - will be interesting if they can maintain


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> nice one - thanks mate
> 
> that is a very decent number for a Friday 22:00 show IMO
> 
> good on them - will be interesting if they can maintain


Yeah I think they can maintain the 700k type number if they can manage to include at least 1 banger match with title or story implications and have some important promo given.


----------



## Chan Hung

3venflow said:


> AEW Rampage
> 
> Viewers: 722,000
> P18-49: 0.34
> 
> Number one on cable.


Still higher than the average NXT Wednesday show


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Yeah I think they can maintain the 700k type number if they can manage to include at least 1 banger match with title or story implications and have some important promo given.


*They can't keep mailing it in like last week or the number will continue to plummet just like those shitty Friday Dynamites.*


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Is Rampage taped or live this week?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> *They can't keep mailing it in like last week or the number will continue to plummet just like those shitty Friday Dynamites.*


Yup, have to make sure to give people a real reason to watch it. They have to have a top feud relevant match on it every week or they're fucked.


----------



## omaroo

Good number seeing the day and time.

700k could very well be the average for AEW but they would need good cards every week to keep that type of rating for Rampage.


----------



## 3venflow

@M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 Live this week, it has its own show at the NOW Arena in the triple header there.

BTW, wrestling was #1 on network and #1 on cable on Friday. Not bad for a dead industry.


----------



## Not Lying

They better bring something big next week cause episode 3 was very mediocre. It's a new show in a critical timeslot, give it a good reputation, the first 2-3 month have to be bangers.


----------



## Geert Wilders

3venflow said:


> Top 50:
> 
> View attachment 107310





3venflow said:


> Top 50:
> 
> View attachment 107310


Turner Network must be seeing $$$$ in their eyes.


----------



## Not Lying

Has any word been out on how much AEW is getting for rampage?


----------



## Prosper

Good shit I like what I see.


----------



## yeahright2

Rampage viewership numbers are out
AEW Ratings prediction game
@3venflow was pretty close, so he wins this one too. Congratulations, you´re 2 for 2 this week 

As expected, a huge drop from the Punk episode. From a business POV I think the EVP´s are happy for Punk returning, but from a talent perspective, it can´t be fun for them to be completely overshadowed by a guy that hasn´t wrestled for 7 years.. I get a feeling they believe they´re the hottest people in wrestling today.


----------



## Not Lying

yeahright2 said:


> Rampage viewership numbers are out
> AEW Ratings prediction game
> @3venflow was pretty close, so he wins this one too. Congratulations, you´re 2 for 2 this week
> 
> As expected, a huge drop from the Punk episode. *From a business POV I think the EVP´s are happy for Punk returning, but from a talent perspective, it can´t be fun for them to be completely overshadowed by a guy that hasn´t wrestled for 7 years.. I get a feeling they believe they´re the hottest people in wrestling today.*


Ha. Maybe they'll need a break to go cry a river somewhere so hopefully they can fuck off after All Out. The EVPs have been strangling the gold the whole year and doing nothing but filler feuds and matches.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Elite are thankfully not going anywhere, and yes, they have been one of the consistent highlights on the show throughout this year.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> Ha. Maybe they'll need a break to go cry a river somewhere so hopefully they can fuck off after All Out. The EVPs have been strangling the gold the whole year and doing nothing but filler feuds and matches.


*The good thing about this is that I'm enjoying watching the Young Bucks tank ratings with their obnoxiously long matches as Britt outdraws them with a 5 minute promo. The constant denial about their mediocrity is quite amusing.*


----------



## wrasslin_casual

Well a PPV is coming up, if it can't do more than am id level Pacquiao or Mayweather PPV before they were million man draws, then yep, Punk's time on AEW doesn't really matter.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *The good thing about this is that I'm enjoying watching the Young Bucks tank ratings with their obnoxiously long matches as Britt outdraws them with a 5 minute promo. The constant denial about their mediocrity is quite amusing.*


I see that you're still denying the fact that you're wrong about the Young Bucks "tanking" the ratings when AEW's highest quarter recently involved them being part of a 10-man Elimination tag match for a half-hour (even though we were repeatedly told that they were "driving away" viewers).

The fact that you pick and choose when your top favorites draw (but conveniently ignore weeks where they aren't part of the highest rated segment) is honestly pathetic. Imagine enjoying being this wrong so often with these ridiculously poor takes.

It'll be cute to see the denial when the Steel Cage match between the Young Bucks vs the Lucha Bros end up being part of the best highlights of All Out this Sunday; but hey, keep pretending that they're somehow "mediocre" talents when they're arguably the best tag team in AEW. Now THAT'S quite amusing 😂


----------



## DaSlacker

The Legit DMD said:


> *The good thing about this is that I'm enjoying watching the Young Bucks tank ratings with their obnoxiously long matches as Britt outdraws them with a 5 minute promo. The constant denial about their mediocrity is quite amusing.*


Tanking the ratings is debatable though. AEW is often getting most of the younger demo who still watch. It's the 50+ and females that ain't watching. Considering they are watching an absolute boring clown show called WWE Raw then I'm not sure what Khan could offer to make them switch wrestling nights to Wednesday.


----------



## Mister Sinister

I think it would be better for the ppvs for Rampage to move to Sunday at 6 on TBS.

TNT might need to rethink letting Dynamite go.


----------



## yeahright2

DaSlacker said:


> Tanking the ratings is debatable though. AEW is often getting most of the younger demo who still watch. It's the 50+ and females that ain't watching. Considering they are watching an absolute boring clown show called WWE Raw then I'm not sure what Khan could offer to make them switch wrestling nights to Wednesday.


More FTR, MJF, Christian, a Matt Hardy that remembers his old wrestling habits. Spots that makes sense in a match instead of a match revolving around spots.
Less comedy. It´s not difficult -Older men want wrestling that reminds them of when wrestling was actually good and matches (and match outcomes) had meaning.
And the women wants wrestlers that looks like men...


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *The good thing about this is that I'm enjoying watching the Young Bucks tank ratings with their obnoxiously long matches as Britt outdraws them with a 5 minute promo. The constant denial about their mediocrity is quite amusing.*


this is always so funny to me and show me how out of touch the newly acquired wwe fans are with the aew fans that basically came all the way from the bullet club ‘invasion’, bte, all in and the rest

75% of us are here because of the bucks, kenny and so on and so on

without them still, there is no company - if they left tomorrow, AEW’s viewership would drop drastically. I know i won’t be very interested


----------



## 3venflow

Big week for AEW, before the PPV. Neither Dynamite or Rampage will sell out like All Out has, but they're looking at healthy gates in the NOW Arena. As of now, just under 22,000 for the three shows sold assuming All Out is configured for 10,500 like the 2019 version was.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1432515709058363394


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Butts in seats for this week


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Big week for AEW, before the PPV. Neither Dynamite or Rampage will sell out like All Out has, but they're looking at healthy gates in the NOW Arena. As of now, just under 22,000 for the three shows sold assuming All Out is configured for 10,500 like the 2019 version was.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1432515709058363394


lol, same time


----------



## 3venflow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol, same time


Great minds and all that.

Hopefully Dynamite gets a nice walk-up since the card is looking good. And if I was AEW, I'd have "CM Punk and Darby Allin go face to face in the ring before their All Out match" advertised for Rampage. That could push Rampage beyond 6k, which is great for a one hour show (plus pre-show Dark tapings).


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Great minds and all that.
> 
> Hopefully Dynamite gets a nice walk-up since the card is looking good. And if I was AEW, I'd have "CM Punk and Darby Allin go face to face in the ring before their All Out match" advertised for Rampage. That could push Rampage beyond 6k, which is great for a one hour show (plus pre-show Dark tapings).


Rampage seems like its shaping up as a ‘good friday out‘ show

go out, get dinner, grab beers, catch the wrestling, have fun


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> this is always so funny to me and show me how out of touch the newly acquired wwe fans are with the aew fans that basically came all the way from the bullet club ‘invasion’, bte, all in and the rest
> 
> 75% of us are here because of the bucks, kenny and so on and so on
> 
> without them still, there is no company - if they left tomorrow, AEW’s viewership would drop drastically. I know i won’t be very interested


*I watched the Bullet Club stuff in New Japan. I've been familiar with Kenny before he was even their top guy since he came to a lot of gaming conventions. This has nothing to do with being out of touch with the fan base. 

There have been plenty of shows that have done better without the Young Bucks appearing at all, and shows that have done worse with their shitty tag matches in the last few weeks. I posted that they would go back to tanking ratings as soon as Hangman got taken off television, and to the surprise of no one except you and the other guy, it happened.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *I watched the Bullet Club stuff in New Japan. I've been familiar with Kenny before he was even their top guy since he came to a lot of gaming conventions. This has nothing to do with being out of touch with the fan base.
> 
> There have been plenty of shows that have done better without the Young Bucks appearing at all, and shows that have done worse with their shitty tag matches in the last few weeks. I posted that they would go back to tanking ratings as soon as Hangman got taken off television, and to the surprise of no one except you and the other guy, it happened.*


hyperbolic nonsense

nothing was tanked and nothing is better without them

don’t like them, that’s fine - but to pretend aew will be anything without the elite / even today is silly

maybe with Punk they have a chance to grow beyond that, we’ll see


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> hyperbolic nonsense
> 
> nothing was tanked and nothing is better without them
> 
> don’t like them, that’s fine - but to pretend aew will be anything without the elite / even today is silly
> 
> maybe with Punk they have a chance to grow beyond that, we’ll see


*Why are you lying when we have numbers documented in this thread? Their matches regularly lose viewers and do the worse. You can't call numerical evidence hyperbole, especially when people can go back two pages to verify it.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Why are you lying when we have numbers documented in this thread?*


if you are gonna pull up the last episode’s q’s i’m gonna laugh at you

prove the bucks lose ratings, i beg you

take a year’s worth of Qs and graph them…. I’ll wait

edit> graph the episode total in relation as well


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Also, don’t say ‘lying’ when its ‘teaching‘


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> if you are gonna pull up the last episode’s q’s i’m gonna laugh at you
> 
> prove the bucks lose ratings, i beg you
> 
> take a year’s worth of Qs and graph them…. I’ll wait


*I'm not going to waste my time making a graph when everyone who is actually paying attention knows the truth, everything here is archived in plain sight, and you will find a way to lie about it and deny it regardless.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *I'm not going to waste my time making a graph when everyone who is actually paying attention knows the truth, everything here is archived in plain sight, and you will find a way to lie about it and deny it regardless.*


the argument of a man that can’t prove shit


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the argument of a man that can’t prove shit


*My point gets proven every week, yet you're still sitting here lying in front of everyone, so that tells me everything I need to know.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *My point gets proven every week, yet you're still sitting here lying in front of everyone, so that tells me everything I need to know.*


baby soft

when i have a little time, i’ll do you a fav and plot the year’s Qs for you by Bucks - i’ll take the Qs where they have the majority time, so there is no confusion of ‘were they the main act in that q’

then i will plot that vs the overall show average

will you agree that if they are above the show average that they are in fact a ‘draw’ And you are so wrong


----------



## Klitschko

The Legit DMD said:


> 🤣
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1431097638817091587


Unless I'm reading this wrong. Weren't the Bucks in the highest rated segment of the night here? And didn't the segment right after with Britt Baker lose some ratings compared to it?

@The Legit DMD @LifeInCattleClass any thoughts?


----------



## thorn123

That was an entertaining rampage and deserved more ... damn I promised myself I was going to get concerned about numbers


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Klitschko said:


> Unless I'm reading this wrong. Weren't the Bucks in the highest rated segment of the night here? And didn't the segment right after with Britt Baker lose some ratings compared to it?
> 
> @The Legit DMD @LifeInCattleClass any thoughts?


eehh… don’r think you can attribute that Q to them . They were just sitting on stage

but there’ll be many more like that one


----------



## Klitschko

LifeInCattleClass said:


> eehh… don’r think you can attribute that Q to them . They were just sitting on stage


I..........didn't watch this week 😔


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Klitschko said:


> I..........didn't watch this week 😔


you didn’t have to

it says ‘bucks on stage’ right there on the quarter 🤣 🤣


----------



## Klitschko

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you didn’t have to
> 
> it says ‘bucks on stage’ right there on the quarter 🤣 🤣


I...........didn't pay attention. That's what I get for trying to back you up against @The Legit DMD. Never again hahahaha.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> baby soft
> 
> when i have a little time, i’ll do you a fav and plot the year’s Qs for you by Bucks - i’ll take the Qs where they have the majority time, so there is no confusion of ‘were they the main act in that q’
> 
> then i will plot that vs the overall show average
> 
> will you agree that if they are above the show average that they are in fact a ‘draw’ And you are so wrong


*Since your previous page button is broken and you seem to ignore everything that happened on those pages, let me help you with some recent examples of their tag matches shitting the bed.

On August 11th, the redundant Elite tag match somehow managed to open with an abysmal number, when that's the easiest spot to draw attention. Literally everything else on the show did better.









On August 18th, people were more interested in a Britt Baker interview and a throwaway Thunder Rosa match later in the show than a tag team title match.









 Last week, The Lucha Brothers vs The Varsity Blondes did WAYYY better as the second most watched thing on the show.











So I'm not sure who you're trying to convince with these lies, because it damn sure won't be me or anyone with working eyes.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Klitschko said:


> I...........didn't pay attention. That's what I get for trying to back you up against @The Legit DMD. Never again hahahaha.


hahaha! Noooooo…. Come baaaacccckkk!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Since your previous page button is broken and you seem to ignore everything that happened on those pages, let me help you with some recent examples of their tag matches shitting the bed.
> 
> On August 11th, the redundant Elite tag match somehow managed to open with an abysmal number, when that's the easiest spot to draw attention. Literally everything else on the show did better.
> View attachment 107337
> 
> 
> On August 18th, people were more interested in a Britt Baker interview and a throwaway Thunder Rosa match later in the show than a tag team title match.
> 
> View attachment 107338
> 
> Last week, The Lucha Brothers vs The Varsity Blondes did WAYYY better as the second most watched thing on the show.
> 
> View attachment 107339
> 
> 
> 
> So I'm not sure who you're trying to convince with these lies, because it damn sure won't be me or anyone with working eyes.*


please show me where the bucks ‘tanked ratings’ in your example

ie> the prior quarter was higher than their quarter

should i plot the year or not?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Klitschko said:


> I...........didn't pay attention. That's what I get for trying to back you up against @The Legit DMD. Never again hahahaha.


*







*


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *Since your previous page button is broken and you seem to ignore everything that happened on those pages, let me help you with some recent examples of their tag matches shitting the bed.
> 
> On August 11th, the redundant Elite tag match somehow managed to open with an abysmal number, when that's the easiest spot to draw attention. Literally everything else on the show did better.
> View attachment 107337
> 
> 
> On August 18th, people were more interested in a Britt Baker interview and a throwaway Thunder Rosa match later in the show than a tag team title match.
> 
> View attachment 107338
> 
> Last week, The Lucha Brothers vs The Varsity Blondes did WAYYY better as the second most watched thing on the show.
> 
> View attachment 107339
> 
> 
> 
> So I'm not sure who you're trying to convince with these lies, because it damn sure won't be me or anyone with working eyes.*


You’re STILL ignoring the fact that you repeatedly (and ignorantly might I add too) told us that the Young Bucks would regularly lose viewers with their 20+ minute matches, but yet their 30-minute Elimination match last month ended up with AEW’s highest quarter rating recently 😂

It’s beyond pathetic that @LifeInCattleClass must continue to teach you about how the ratings work because you for damn sure can’t even provide an annual graph/statistics about the Young Bucks “tanking” ratings (even though it’s beyond obvious with anybody who has a clue that ratings among different quarters tend to fluctuate often). It’s also laughable how you continue to remain biased as heck in order to push your obnoxious, twisted, false narrative against them (but yet conveniently continue to shove your favorites being the “only ones” to draw down our throats).

For the record, if you’re going to indirectly mention here, then actually have the guts to quote/tag me 



The Legit DMD said:


> *My point gets proven every week, yet you're still sitting here lying in front of everyone, so that tells me everything I need to know.*


Nah, those weak points just get invalidated automatically every week with your obvious bias and false/twisted narratives.

That's all.


----------



## kyledriver

When I first starting watching I thought the bucks were fucking awesome. Always had amazing matches, made the other guys look good.

Now I'm so sick of there shtick. Every match is like 30 minutes, 10 thousand false finishes. I'm fatigued from watching them. I pray to Satan that the lucha bros take the belts off em at all out.

Sent from my SM-A526W using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

Punk _did_ move the needle in the demographic that matters most.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1432636319692251136


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> Punk _did_ move the needle in the demographic that matters most.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1432636319692251136


*Yet Dynamite did 1.1 million viewers.*


----------



## 3venflow

The Legit DMD said:


> *Yet Dynamite did 1.1 million viewers.*


And...?

1.1m is a good total viewership for an upstart pro wrestling group that is still developing its brand awareness, especially on cable in 2021.

But again, the 18-49 demographic is what networks care most about and AEW did an outstanding 0.48 in that department for Dynamite, making it the number one show on cable above American Horror Story, Challenge and other shows.

Punk has brought younger eyes to AEW and that's very relevant. Not just in terms of TV ratings, which isn't the only metric that counts nowadays, but social media views (his return was the number one video *in the world*) and press coverage.

AEW's YouTube subscriber count is up 390% in the past 28 days and video views up 112%.

TNT/Warner issued two press releases for Rampage and Dynamite to celebrate their P18-49 ratings.

For Punk's return to beat both WWE shows in the key demographic (in a 10pm timeslot no less) *is* needle-moving, even if just for a time.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> And...?
> 
> 1.1m is a good total viewership for an upstart pro wrestling group that is still developing its brand awareness, especially on cable in 2021..


*1.1 is what they were hitting 2 weeks ago without Punk. That's not moving the needle. The point is they can't keep putting on shitty shows and rest on their laurels because they signed Punk. People will just get the notification that he's on TV from social media, watch his segments, and turn this shit off. It happened instantly.*


----------



## 3venflow

You seem to have a narrow view of what constitutes growth, reducing it to a single metric in an industry of several metrics. Such as...


The key P18-49 demographic where AEW has surpassed all expectations and just done its best since the pilot episode
Ticket sales
Social media growth
Merchandise sales (which were through the roof in Chicago and apparently paid off Punk's salary in one night)
Long-term impact on the brand and its credibility (selling it to new advertisers, TV channels, and so on)

Judging a company's current status on the (increasingly less relevant) P2 rating kinda screams 'agenda' to me.

And actually, last week's P2 (total viewership) was their third highest ever, albeit by a pretty narrow margin. And that was with an incredibly average card.

Punk has had a noticeably positive effect on AEW in most departments - the key demo, ticket sales, merchandise, social media views and growth, media attention. In that sense, he has moved the needle as much as a wrestler is going to in AEW unless someone like The Rock arrives.

The long-term impact remains to be seen, much of it will come down to how Punk and the company itself is booked, but to rule out Punk moving the needle in any way, well... again, it has the feel of an agenda and selective cherry picking. Kinda like painting the Bucks as anti-draws when they're neither massive draws or anti-draws.


----------



## DammitChrist

Wait, now CM Punk's (remaining) drawing power is being questioned too? 



kyledriver said:


> When I first starting watching I thought the bucks were fucking awesome. Always had amazing matches, made the other guys look good.
> 
> Now I'm so sick of there shtick. Every match is like 30 minutes, 10 thousand false finishes. I'm fatigued from watching them. I pray to Satan that the lucha bros take the belts off em at all out.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A526W using Tapatalk


The Young Bucks won't be going anywhere though thankfully due to their fan favoring, which is partially the reason why this company is even here in the first place 



The Legit DMD said:


> *Exactly. D̶o̶m̶i̶n̶o̶'̶s̶ Little Caesar's doesn't give a shit about DVR ratings. They want to know why thousands of people are fast forwarding through their commercials. Punk's debut episode of Rampage showed us that there are over 1 million people willing to tune in LIVE on a Friday night at 9:00 p.m. if you put hot shit on TV. All these nonsense excuses about people being too busy have been thrown out the window. If they want to watch the product with a sense of urgency, they'll watch it live. Nothing about last week's programming was urgent. They aired four episodes of Dark.*


You seriously need to use a different vocabulary instead of labeling perfectly valid explanations/reasons as "excuses" because this crutch is beyond trash at this point.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> You seem to have a narrow view of what constitutes growth, reducing it to a single metric in an industry of several metrics. Such as...
> 
> 
> The key P18-49 demographic where AEW has surpassed all expectations and just done its best since the pilot episode
> Ticket sales
> Social media growth
> Merchandise sales (which were through the roof in Chicago and apparently paid off Punk's salary in one night)
> Long-term impact on the brand and its credibility (selling it to new advertisers, TV channels, and so on)
> 
> Judging a company's current status on the (increasingly less relevant) P2 rating kinda screams 'agenda' to me.
> 
> And actually, last week's P2 (total viewership) was their third highest ever, albeit by a pretty narrow margin. And that was with an incredibly average card.
> 
> Punk has had a noticeably positive effect on AEW in most departments - the key demo, ticket sales, merchandise, social media views and growth, media attention. In that sense, he has moved the needle as much as a wrestler is going to in AEW unless someone like The Rock arrives.
> 
> The long-term impact remains to be seen, much of it will come down to how Punk and the company itself is booked, but to rule out Punk moving the needle in any way, well... again, it has the feel of an agenda and selective cherry picking. Kinda like painting the Bucks as anti-draws when they're neither massive draws or anti-draws.


*Did you just completely ignore the part where I said they would watch his segments? That indicates that he himself is a draw, but not enough to carry the company to heights they've never reached on a consistent basis if they continue to book mediocre shows around him. You're so obsessed with an imaginary anti-AEW agenda that you refuse to acknowledge that they need to increase show quality to increase ratings.*


----------



## 3venflow

The Legit DMD said:


> Did you just completely ignore the part where I said they would watch his segments?


Yet Rampage, in the dead of the night, managed to retain over 1 million viewers after his return ended? A drop from his segment, obviously, but still relevant since a 10pm show like that is lucky to do 700,000. Meaning, at least 300,000 of this so-called 'only for Punk' viewers stuck around. And after that it is obviously up to AEW to hook those in. But for Punk, he's done his job, he's moved the needle you might say, and given AEW/its talent a platform to impress more viewers.

Dynamite, despite possibly its weakest... card... ever... still managed to average 1.17m in total and its second highest key demographic rating ever. Over two hours, not the 5-10 minutes Punk was out there.

And when we talk about 'ignoring the part', what about his impact on things beyond TV ratings like those I listed? What if his arrival helps AEW bag new TV deals around the world, like they have in India? Apparently, the Mexican channel that aired AEW on a 10-day delay has just bowed to pressure and is now going to show it live.

And ticket sales... last week's Dynamite sold an extra 2,000 tickets after Punk's presence was announced. Money in the bank.



> You're so obsessed with an imaginary anti-AEW agenda that you refuse to acknowledge that they need to increase show quality to increase ratings.


You're talking to someone who blasted nearly every Friday night edition of Dynamite and gave last week's edition a 4/10. Someone who keeps saying the women's division match quality has gone to shit since Shida, Riho and Serena were taken off TV. Someone who has voiced his unease at signing less necessary WWE talent like 2point0. You shouldn't really talk agendas when your grudges against particular wrestlers on the roster and the owner of the company himself is quite noticed on here.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> Yet Rampage, in the dead of the night, managed to retain over 1 million viewers after his return ended? A drop from his segment, obviously, but still relevant since a 10pm show like that is lucky to do 700,000. Meaning, at least 300,000 of this so-called 'only for Punk' viewers stuck around. And after that it is obviously up to AEW to hook those in. But for Punk, he's done his job, he's moved the needle you might say, and given AEW/its talent a platform to impress more viewers.


*How predictable of you to deflect from the mediocre Dynamite rating with a show that was anticipating a huge return after a seven-year hiatus. That's not the conversation here, so again, try to stay on topic. I really don't want to hear about Rampage from you, considering you had a thousand excuses for their 500,000 viewers last month. All those people that were working, sleeping, masturbating, and clubbing all of a sudden got erectile dysfunction, fired from their jobs, and insomnia in the span of 3 weeks.

Anyway, back to the matter at hand, you don't waste the elevation of a star like this on a Dark quality program and expect to "create a new era and bring back dormant and new fans." Tony Khan's words, not mine, so don't bother whining about unrealistic expectations like you normally do.*




> Dynamite, despite possibly its weakest... card... ever... still managed to average 1.17m in total and its second highest key demographic rating ever. Over two hours, not the 5-10 minutes Punk was out there.


*Because a good amount of people stayed watching and waiting for Punk. None of that should be attributed to the show itself, which was complete garbage. Had they put a card worth a damn, they could have drawn 1.4 million again. 

The point you keep ignoring is that this company has a habit of being complacent when they do something cool and turn around and put absolute shit on the air the next week, which undoes all of the efforts of the previously stacked card. *



> And when we talk about 'ignoring the part', what about his impact on things beyond TV ratings like those I listed? What if his arrival helps AEW bag new TV deals around the world, like they have in India? Apparently, the Mexican channel that aired AEW on a 10-day delay has just bowed to pressure and is now going to show it live.
> 
> And ticket sales... last week's Dynamite sold an extra 2,000 tickets after Punk's presence was announced. Money in the bank.


*Again, this is you deflecting. We are talking about the 1.1 million number, which is mediocre in the context of everything that you just said. Punk's presence did wonders in putting eyes on AEW and they threw it all in the trash with an episode of Dark elevation on live television. I thought it would take at least 2 weeks for the initial excitement to wear off, but people saw all the jobbers on the air and said fuck this shit immediately.*



> You're talking to someone who blasted nearly every Friday night edition of Dynamite and gave last week's edition a 4/10. Someone who keeps saying the women's division match quality has gone to shit since Shida, Riho and Serena were taken off TV. Someone who has voiced his unease at signing less necessary WWE talent like 2point0. You shouldn't really talk agendas when your grudges against particular wrestlers on the roster and the owner of the company himself is quite noticed on here.


*But somehow when I and others talk about how shitty the show is, it's an imaginary ANTI-AEW agenda, and anything we praise is never referenced because it doesn't suit your narrative. Funny how that works.*


----------



## 3venflow

The Legit DMD said:


> How predictable of you to deflect from the mediocre Dynamite rating with a show that was anticipating a huge return after a seven-year hiatus.


Their third highest rating ever and second highest 18-49 with one of their weakest cards ever? Deflecting from that? I despair. Let's have some common sense in the room.

They. Did. One. Of. Their. Best. Ratings. Ever. With. Brock Anderson. In. The. Main. Event. And. The. Gunn. Club. In. The. Semi. Main. Event!

Punk was out there for what, 8-10 minutes including his entrance?

Why are you also continuing to ignore their 0.48 rating in the *key demo*. Their *second best ever* behind only the pilot episode?



> I really don't want to hear about Rampage from you, considering you had a thousand excuses for their 500,000 viewers last month.


Post them please. I beg of thee, I want to see these 'thousand excuses' I made while calling the shows terrible and largely deserving of their viewership on this very board.



> But somehow when I and others talk about how shitty the show is, it's an imaginary ANTI-AEW agenda, and anything we praise is never referenced because it doesn't suit your narrative. Funny how that works.


Again, you seem to be attributing things to me instead of the people they apply to. Your agendas to me seem anti-Tony Khan, anti-Bucks, pro-Britt Baker and pro-James Cornette.

Once again, a full post without acknowledging his impact on the other 'metrics'. Your entire argument is the P2 viewership, not the key demo, not ticket sales, not merchandise sales, not growth in their social media presence (the *number one video on planet earth* for example). Such cherry-picking points to only one thing.

Punk's immediate impact has had an effect on AEW. I'm not going to say whether it'll have a long-term impact, but his arrival has boosted their brand on pretty much all fronts.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> Their third highest rating ever and second highest 18-49 with one of their weakest cards ever? Deflecting from that? I despair. Let's have some common sense in the room.
> 
> They. Did. One. Of. Their. Best. Ratings. Ever. With. Brock Anderson. In. The. Main. Event. And. The. Gunn. Club. In. The. Semi. Main. Event!
> 
> Punk was out there for what, 8-10 minutes including his entrance?
> 
> Why are you also continuing to ignore their 0.48 rating in the *key demo*. Their *second best ever* behind only the pilot episode?
> 
> 
> 
> Post them please. I beg of thee, I want to see these 'thousand excuses' I made while calling the shows terrible and largely deserving of their viewership on this very board.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, you seem to be attributing things to me instead of the people they apply to. Your agendas to me seem anti-Tony Khan, anti-Bucks, pro-Britt Baker and pro-James Cornette.
> 
> Once again, a full post without acknowledging his impact on the other 'metrics'. Your entire argument is the P2 viewership, not the key demo, not ticket sales, not merchandise sales, not growth in their social media presence (the *number one video on planet earth* for example). Such cherry-picking points to only one thing.
> 
> Punk's immediate impact has had an effect on AEW. I'm not going to say whether it'll have a long-term impact, but his arrival has boosted their brand on pretty much all fronts.


*I'm not going to waste time repeating myself because you keep missing things right in your face. All those metrics you named did nothing to increase the rating past a standard card with a Britt Baker promo and a Darby Allin match. They barely did better than an episode of Rampage in the OH SO DEVASTATING death slot while on prime time. That's an embarassing waste of Punk's drawing power and will definitely not move the needle if it continues. Moving the needle is putting their ratings above their all-time highs. He couldn't do that on his first Dynamite appearance because the card shit the bed. No amount of deflecting is going to change that fact.*


----------



## 3venflow

So if AEW does a record PPV buyrate thanks to Punk vs. Darby, that doesn't count?

What about their record attendance for a 1-hour show with the strong hint of Punk's return? Does that metric not count?

All you are doing is taking one metric, the P2, which is not even the main TV metric anymore (P18-49 is) and drawing conclusions from that. Nevermind that Punk's arrival _has_ moved the needle in the demographic that matters: Rampage at 10pm beating RAW and Smackdown in primetime that week, Dynamite doing its best 18-49 number since the debut show and beating NFL. Even the latest Rampage topped the cable ratings despite no Punk and despite the timeslot, suggesting his influence has permeated across the show.

Let's ignore the impact on the brand his arrival has and will have that goes beyond 'Dynamite rating not 1.5m!'. The 390% growth in their YouTube channel in recent weeks for example.

Judging movement of the needle solely on the P2 rating is a complete fallacy and is a very 1998 mindset, but I'm done too.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*The pay-per-view buy rate will be great because of Punk and Darby, absolutely. I said that was the best move before it was even announced because they are easily the two most popular male talents. I think what you're missing here is that it's not about Punk's drawing power, it's the fact that his drawing power will be instantly negated by shitty cards. Now is not the time to be in cruise control, especially two weeks before a PPV (referring to last week). Tony Khan needs to put his foot on the gas and capitalize on all this positive publicity he's getting instead of putting the same old bullshit on TV after a great show.*


----------



## THANOS

The Legit DMD said:


> *1.1 is what they were hitting 2 weeks ago without Punk. That's not moving the needle. The point is they can't keep putting on shitty shows and rest on their laurels because they signed Punk. People will just get the notification that he's on TV from social media, watch his segments, and turn this shit off. It happened instantly.*


To be fair, the Challenge just returned 2 weeks ago, which saw a dip in Dynamite to 950k. It traditionally eats into Dynamite's viewership, so it could be expected that the 1.1 would have been 1.3+ if Challenge concluded.


----------



## Erik.

Just seen the Rampage number and demo - impressive.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

THANOS said:


> To be fair, the Challenge just returned 2 weeks ago, which saw a dip in Dynamite to 950k. It traditionally eats into Dynamite's viewership, so it could be expected that the 1.1 would have been 1.3+ if Challenge concluded.


*Dude, they hit a million against the NBA Finals. If people want to watch AEW, they'll watch AEW.*


----------



## THANOS

The Legit DMD said:


> *Dude, they hit a million against the NBA Finals. If people want to watch AEW, they'll watch AEW.*


To be honest, there are different groups of fans. The types of fans that would choose The Challenge over AEW are probably casuals. Something like CM Punk may or may not sway them from the Challenge.

As soon as the Challenge ended last time the viewership went way up, I believe, for Dynamite, because all those viewers returned.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW getting those young eyes on it.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1432796228220190721


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> Punk _did_ move the needle in the demographic that matters most.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1432636319692251136


Are we really at the point we're using 7 day DVR results to get AEW a atta boy.


----------



## Not Lying

RapShepard said:


> Are we really at the point we're using 7 day DVR results to get AEW a atta boy.


It is highly impressive


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> AEW getting those young eyes on it.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1432796228220190721


What's his definition of skewing younger and why not include SmackDown they seem to be doing better young numbers as well


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Are we really at the point we're using 7 day DVR results to get AEW a atta boy.


*And I thought the overnight DVR argument was trash. SHEESH!*


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> *And I thought the overnight DVR argument was trash. SHEESH!*


I mean I mainly don't get it because they do well. Why stretch it with stats that are pretty much never discussed. And where do the 7+ numbers get posted.


----------



## Not Lying

The DVR number shows the interest in the product. Not everyone can watch live. The fact AEW is already reaching recognition and skewing younger bolds well FOR THE FUTURE. It's not just about the live interest now, or the money they make now, these are signs of growth, and this is a sign that when 18-49 people have enough time on their hands, they would rather watch AEW rather than WWE.
These are fans that can still attend shows and buy merch, and thus converted to $$. Sheesh.


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> The DVR number shows the interest in the product. Not everyone can watch live. The fact AEW is already reaching recognition and skewing younger bolds well FOR THE FUTURE. It's not just about the live interest now, or the money they make now, these are signs of growth, and this is a sign that when 18-49 people have enough time on their hands, they would rather watch AEW rather than WWE.
> These are fans that can still attend shows and buy merch, and thus converted to $$. Sheesh.


But we're talking about allegedly one time with no number on what Raw, NXT(lol), Dynamite, and SmackDown tend to do on a live+ 3 or live+ 7 basis. The live+ 3 or live+ 7 are pretty close to never discussed here for something you're saying is important.


----------



## Not Lying

RapShepard said:


> But we're talking about allegedly one time with no number on what Raw, NXT(lol), Dynamite, and SmackDown tend to do on a live+ 3 or live+ 7 basis. The live+ 3 or live+ 7 are pretty close to never discussed here for something you're saying is important.


I wouldn't mind discussing them more 

I'd assume they weren't mentioned before because it's the first time AEW beats them, and hence, it's a big deal when you do it the first time over a 7-day period.
I don't understand why you're downplaying this.


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> I wouldn't mind discussing them more
> 
> I'd assume they weren't mentioned before because it's the first time AEW beats them, and hence, it's a big deal when you do it the first time over a 7-day period.
> I don't understand why you're downplaying this.


I mean where do we go to get the actual live 3+ and live 7+ numbers for that week?


----------



## Not Lying

RapShepard said:


> I mean where do we go to get the actual live 3+ and live 7+ numbers for that week?


Tweet Dave man 😂
I would assume there's a website (probably a paying one that he's subscribed to) that publishes it.


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> Tweet Dave man
> I would assume there's a website (probably a paying one that he's subscribed to) that publishes it.


It's not even Dave, it's a random Daniel we're taking this info from. Also apparently live+ 7 doesn't matter to advertisers that much 

Least according to ShowBuzz Daily





__





Showbuzz Basics | Showbuzz Daily







showbuzzdaily.com


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> It's not even Dave, it's a random Daniel we're taking this info from. Also apparently live+ 7 doesn't matter to advertisers that much
> 
> Least according to ShowBuzz Daily
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Showbuzz Basics | Showbuzz Daily
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> showbuzzdaily.com


*Exactly. D̶o̶m̶i̶n̶o̶'̶s̶ Little Caesar's doesn't give a shit about DVR ratings. They want to know why thousands of people are fast forwarding through their commercials. Punk's debut episode of Rampage showed us that there are over 1 million people willing to tune in LIVE on a Friday night at 9:00 p.m. if you put hot shit on TV. All these nonsense excuses about people being too busy have been thrown out the window. If they want to watch the product with a sense of urgency, they'll watch it live. Nothing about last week's programming was urgent. They aired four episodes of Dark.*


----------



## Not Lying

RapShepard said:


> It's not even Dave, it's a random Daniel we're taking this info from. Also apparently live+ 7 doesn't matter to advertisers that much
> 
> Least according to ShowBuzz Daily
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Showbuzz Basics | Showbuzz Daily
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> showbuzzdaily.com


Yeah it doesn’t matter at all to advertiser, but that’s like all dvr numbers really, not just +7. I said it’s not about money now, it’s the sign in interest and growth if these numbers are true (since not Dave and some random Daniel 😂).

Again, read what u posted, it matters to the publicist of the company, because they can market that and add value to their brand.


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> Yeah it doesn’t matter at all to advertiser, but that’s like all dvr numbers really, not just +7. I said it’s not about money now, it’s the sign in interest and growth if these numbers are true (since not Dave and some random Daniel ).
> 
> Again, read what u posted, it matters to the publicist of the company, because they can market that and add value to their brand.


But usually we use the demo as it's what advertisers care about. If we're just doing viewers why not go viewers. It's like we're fanagling all over the place to make it falsely better when it was already good.


----------



## Not Lying

RapShepard said:


> But usually we use the demo as it's what advertisers care about. If we're just doing viewers why not go viewers. It's like we're fanagling all over the place to make it falsely better when it was already good.


No. Why playing dumb. We’re talking about growth in the people between the 18-49, ans their interest in the product.


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> No. Why playing dumb. We’re talking about growth in the people between the 18-49, ans their interest in the product.


But if that demo isn't watching live when the advertisers care it's worthless, so what's the relevance. At that point overalls would show more interest


----------



## Not Lying

RapShepard said:


> But if that demo isn't watching live when the advertisers care it's worthless, so what's the relevance. At that point overalls would show more interest


Again, it's relevant to people because it shows that people between the ages of 18-49, when they have time on their hands, would rather watch AEW. Do you really don't think this is something they wouldn't publicize if not true? They'd fucking be calling sponsors spreading this news like rabies


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> *Again, it's relevant to people because it shows that people between the ages of 18-49, when they have time on their hands, would rather watch AEW.* Do you really don't think this is something they wouldn't publicize if not true? They'd fucking be calling sponsors spreading this news rabies


Does it show that when the only time we've seen this is for Punk's debut and never before? We don't know what the norm is for them on Dynamite in live+ 7 day or what Rampage did live+ 7 day. We have no real metric to really base shit on. But what we do know is things get cherry picked go give AEW a boost. Like when they were comparing ratings from different weeks. Or randomly bringing up non-key demos like women 12-34 when it's beneficial.


----------



## Not Lying

RapShepard said:


> Does it show that when the only time we've seen this is for Punk's debut and never before? We don't know what the norm is for them on Dynamite in live+ 7 day or what Rampage did live+ 7 day. We have no real metric to really base shit on. But what we do know is things get cherry picked go give AEW a boost. Like when they were comparing ratings from different weeks. Or randomly bringing up non-key demos like women 12-34 when it's beneficial.


Of course it was, I told you this from the beginning, this is the first time they probably did it, and hence it got out and why it usually doesn’t. Clearly, if you know AEW fans by now; you know they are more likely to bring this up.

The other number gets highlighted because it shows that despite SD or RAW doing double the numbers, it’s skewed towards a specific age group. When a show of the same concept (wrestling) DOUBLING viewers of another I’d expect them to beat them in ALL Demos and by quite a big margin. 
So it is impressive when they’re beaten by a specific demo.


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> Of course it was, I told you this from the beginning, this is the first time they probably did it, and hence it got out and why it usually doesn’t. Clearly, if you know AEW fans by now; you know they are more likely to bring this up.


And that's my point, cherry picking numbers to make it look bigger when they're already killing it screams insecure


----------



## Not Lying

RapShepard said:


> And that's my point, cherry picking numbers to make it look bigger when they're already killing it screams insecure


Read my edited 2nd paragraph ^^

It’s not cherry picking, it’s perspective.”they’re already killing it” of course 😉 but beating out WWE for the first time is always gona be mentioned.
Punk’s return is a turning point, and this small stat WILL be looked back at


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> Read my edited 2nd paragraph ^^
> 
> It’s not cherry picking, it’s perspective.”they’re already killing it” of course  but beating out WWE for the first time is always gona be mentioned.
> Punk’s return is a turning point, and this small stat WILL be looked back at


For me it just comes off like a Skip Bayless type "Well *_ scored more than LeBron in the 4th quarter in this random game" type mention. Even when factual it's just like, well what's the overall point is ___* now the better player, or you charting for them to overtake or what?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

For shits and giggles - dvr is why there is picture in picture so much

they’re trying to get the people to not forward

tv ad sales will have a metric for ad buyers of ‘our dvr ads gets watched x amount of minutes’


----------



## Not Lying

LifeInCattleClass said:


> For shits and giggles - dvr is why there is picture in picture so much
> 
> they’re trying to get the people to not forward
> 
> tv ad sales will have a metric for ad buyers of ‘our dvr ads gets watched x amount of minutes’


You also have sponsors that plaster their shit/flyers all over the arena which benefits from the additional eyes in the DVR


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> For shits and giggles - dvr is why there is picture in picture so much
> 
> they’re trying to get the people to not forward
> 
> tv ad sales will have a metric for ad buyers of ‘our dvr ads gets watched x amount of minutes’


You know most shows don't have picture in picture commercials right?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> You know most shows don't have picture in picture commercials right?


most sports do split sceen / pip / pushes/ banners etc etc

why else do you think they do pip - for fun?


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> most sports do split sceen / pip / pushes/ banners etc etc
> 
> why else do you think they do pip - for fun?


No they don't lol. From UFC to CFB to CBB to NBA to NFL they go full commercial 99.9% of the time


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> No they don't lol. From UFC to CFB to CBB to NBA to NFL they go full commercial 99.9% of the time


so, you’re saying its only

A. A wrestling thing

and

B. Only in South Africa, Uk, Netherlands, Germany where i’ve seen it?

wow, talk about niche - interesting


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Beep boop - hello google, search pip plzzz









Evaluating Picture-in-Picture Advertising - NMSBA


Want to know the latest in neuromarketing? Read industry news and expert blogs at the Neuromarketing Science and Business Association (NMSBA).




www.nmsba.com


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> so, you’re saying its only
> 
> A. A wrestling thing
> 
> and
> 
> B. Only in South Africa, Uk, Netherlands, Germany where i’ve seen it?
> 
> wow, talk about niche - interesting


Yeah like timeouts for commercial breaks are a scheduled thing in American sports. Now televised boxing and MMA events the commercials breaks during a match are shorter because by state commission rules the breaks between rounds can only be so long, but yeah American Sports don't really go picture in picture here at least.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

When wwe started doing it in 2017 and the perceived benefits









Matt Riddle talks record-breaking SummerSlam, the evolution of RK-Bro and his journey from UFC to WWE


Riddle won the Raw tag titles with Randy Orton at SummerSlam




www.cbssports.com


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Beep boop - hello google, search pip plzzz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Evaluating Picture-in-Picture Advertising - NMSBA
> 
> 
> Want to know the latest in neuromarketing? Read industry news and expert blogs at the Neuromarketing Science and Business Association (NMSBA).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nmsba.com





LifeInCattleClass said:


> When wwe started doing it in 2017 and the perceived benefits
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matt Riddle talks record-breaking SummerSlam, the evolution of RK-Bro and his journey from UFC to WWE
> 
> 
> Riddle won the Raw tag titles with Randy Orton at SummerSlam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cbssports.com


Yes you're using an article from 2013 to talk about the advertising in sports in a country you don't live in. I'm telling you this isn't a thing in US sports.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Yes you're using an article from 2013 to talk about the advertising in sports in a country you don't live in. I'm telling you this isn't a thing in US sports.


so its only in wresting

you’ve never seen a half screen banner push up during a game?

why do you think its only in wrestling and what are the benefits?

ps> i’ve been to the US a couple of times and we get US channels over here, just as an aside


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> so its only in wresting
> 
> you’ve never seen a half screen banner push up during a game?
> 
> why do you think its only in wrestling and what are the benefits?
> 
> ps> i’ve been to the US a couple of times and we get US channels over here, just as an aside


Yes wrestling is fairly unique in showing action in picture and picture.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Yes wrestling is fairly unique in showing action in picture and picture.





LifeInCattleClass said:


> most sports do split sceen / pip / pushes/ banners etc etc
> 
> why else do you think they do pip - for fun?


i’m talking about all these formats - they all achieve the same thing

now i know for a fact the nfl does sponsorship halfscreens during live games and definitely other sports does split screens during games

all for the same reason / live tv brings eyes

and my original point was that they use this to try and force people to watch ads - like pip with the wrestling

so, not sure what you disagree with in all of these statements?

cause they definitely don’t do pip because they love cody or something


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i’m talking about all these formats - they all achieve the same thing
> 
> now i know for a fact the nfl does sponsorship halfscreens during live games and definitely other sports does split screens during games
> 
> all for the same reason / live tv brings eyes
> 
> and my original point was that they use this to try and force people to watch ads - like pip with the wrestling
> 
> so, not sure what you disagree with in all of these statements?
> 
> cause they definitely don’t do pip because they love cody or something


Regular US sports don't contain PiP ads like that they just don't.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

they don’t do this?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> View attachment 107420
> 
> 
> they don’t do this?


*It's not normal in the regular season, no.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ok, then humour me

why do you lads think TNT and USA networks gives AEW and WWE picture in picture

like, what is the logical benefit to the channel itself, who is only there to make money


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Also - this article wasn’t written it 2013

its talks about the first launch in 2013 and then test being run for 2 years and then the results and conclusions









Evaluating Picture-in-Picture Advertising - NMSBA


Want to know the latest in neuromarketing? Read industry news and expert blogs at the Neuromarketing Science and Business Association (NMSBA).




www.nmsba.com





just to make sure we‘re on the same page of course


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

2018 variety article linked on fox sports website


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Never happens (2020)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Apologies if this was already posted, I must've missed it. I know Rampage wasn't particularly interesting this week, but...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1432748219159793672
The viewership looks like it dropped like a rock in Q2 and beyond. My guess is Punk/Darby potential interaction AEW was promoting got people interested. Probably why the show started near 800k. Then once that Punk/Darby video package played and people realized nothing was actually happening with them, they tuned out. (Granted, there were spoilers, but I think a lot of people aren't used to looking them up yet since the first two shows were live).

The overall number didn't look too bad, but I think it's pretty bad when a show starts out fairly high and then drops every quarter like this one did. If this quarterly breakdown is any indication, I think viewership is going to hover between 600-700k usually for Rampage. Which still isn't too bad since it's better than what Dynamite does, but it'll likely go lower than that in time if they don't make the shows worth watching. Like, they didn't even bother advertising Miro interview with Tony, and while I doubt it would've saved them from the drop, it just highlights the big problem with AEW sometimes. They couldn't even be bothered to advertise one of their champions on an episode of Rampage, but I remember seeing the freaking Tay Conti/Bunny match being promoted. That's an issue. 

(Although if I'm mistaken and Miro was actually advertised for Rampage on Dynamite at some point and I missed it, then this isn't a great example of the problem above).


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Regular US sports don't contain PiP ads like that they just don't.


Fact. They have tv timeouts in the NBA, and in the NFL they run a commercial on every change of possession, which is typically 5-10 minutes.


LifeInCattleClass said:


> View attachment 107420
> 
> 
> they don’t do this?


Nah. They don’t run stuff like that on live TV.


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> *It's not normal in the regular season, no.*





bdon said:


> Fact. They have tv timeouts in the NBA, and in the NFL they run a commercial on every change of possession, which is typically 5-10 minutes.
> Nah. They don’t run stuff like that on live TV.


He just doesn't it get it lol


LifeInCattleClass said:


> Ok, then humour me
> 
> why do you lads think TNT and USA networks gives AEW and WWE picture in picture
> 
> like, what is the logical benefit to the channel itself, who is only there to make money


The purpose of picture in picture to get folk to watch ads is obvious. But it's just not really a thing in US sports, which goes back to ads being worthless for DVR. The NBA and NFL would have a fuck ton more ads then that if PiP was a common thing. As pointed out in the one article it might be a thing for golf and Nascar because they don't have frequent breaks in action.


----------



## Prosper

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Apologies if this was already posted, I must've missed it. I know Rampage wasn't particularly interesting this week, but...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1432748219159793672
> The viewership looks like it dropped like a rock in Q2 and beyond. My guess is Punk/Darby potential interaction AEW was promoting got people interested. Probably why the show started near 800k. Then once that Punk/Darby video package played and people realized nothing was actually happening with them, they tuned out. (Granted, there were spoilers, but I think a lot of people aren't used to looking them up yet since the first two shows were live).
> 
> The overall number didn't look too bad, but I think it's pretty bad when a show starts out fairly high and then drops every quarter like this one did. If this quarterly breakdown is any indication, I think viewership is going to hover between 600-700k usually for Rampage. Which still isn't too bad since it's better than what Dynamite does, but it'll likely go lower than that in time if they don't make the shows worth watching. Like, they didn't even bother advertising Miro interview with Tony, and while I doubt it would've saved them from the drop, it just highlights the big problem with AEW sometimes. They couldn't even be bothered to advertise one of their champions on an episode of Rampage, but I remember seeing the freaking Tay Conti/Bunny match being promoted. That's an issue.
> 
> (Although if I'm mistaken and Miro was actually advertised for Rampage on Dynamite at some point and I missed it, then this isn't a great example of the problem above).


I do have to say they kind of false advertised the Punk/Darby thing on Rampage last week. They said we would hear from both and they instead played a short video package where both guys barely spoke. That may have turned off some people that night.


----------



## Not Lying

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Apologies if this was already posted, I must've missed it. I know Rampage wasn't particularly interesting this week, but...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1432748219159793672


Once again, Omega fails to maintain or increase viewers. Take the belt off him asap.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Definition of Technician said:


> Once again, Omega fails to maintain or increase viewers. Take the belt off him asap.


You're obviously biased against Kenny Omega. You're seriously going to use that episode as an attack toward him when the 1st episode of Rampage demonstrated how his match against Christian Cage progressively gained viewers toward the finish, when he was still part of the highest rated quarter this year so far in that Elimination tag not too long ago (despite being repeatedly told that the Elite is "tanking" the ratings), and when he was part of only 2 quarters that had over a million viewers on that Dynamite episode a couple of weeks ago (with that Elite backstage interview).

No, Kenny Omega isn't losing that AEW World title until he faces Adam Page at Full Gear. He has no business losing that world championship now.

Just be grateful that there's actually an endgame here that inevitably leads to Page's big moment because the journey beforehand will be worth it, and the wait for the end of his reign isn't even long at this point. 

Omega won't make it to Thanksgiving.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> He just doesn't it get it lolThe purpose of picture in picture to get folk to watch ads is obvious. But it's just not really a thing in US sports, which goes back to ads being worthless for DVR. The NBA and NFL would have a fuck ton more ads then that if PiP was a common thing. As pointed out in the one article it might be a thing for golf and Nascar because they don't have frequent breaks in action.


if it has no value…. Why do it?

why even make the call to end a match during pip?

i think you assume too much - all the decisions they’ve been making shows it does have value - otherwise it would’ve stopped

also, isn’t golf and nascar pretty popular?


----------



## Garty

LifeInCattleClass said:


> if it has no value…. Why do it?
> 
> why even make the call to end a match during pip?
> 
> i think you assume too much - all the decisions they’ve been making shows it does have value - otherwise it would’ve stopped
> 
> also, isn’t golf and nascar pretty popular?


Life, this is what I've seen here in North America using picture-in-picture, live on-going breaking news (elections, emergencies, disasters, events, etc.), PGA, MLS, Formula 1, NASCAR, American Football, European Football and a few others I'm sure, but these examples I know for a fact.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Garty said:


> Life, this is what I've seen here in North America using picture-in-picture, live on-going breaking news (elections, emergencies, disasters, events, etc.), PGA, MLS, Formula 1, NASCAR, American Football, European Football and a few others I'm sure, but these examples I know for a fact.


right, so it happens - and it doesn’t happen for ‘no reason’ - cause tv does not work that way

therefore, i see no issue with my original statement of ’tv ad sales likely has a metric for minutes watched of pip and other similar formats’ to try and show there is still value on DVR

and the reason i know this, is when DVR came out years ago, they tried to sell it to me on this basis - so if it was happening that far back in south africa, no reason to think its not happening in the US

i would like to know why anybody would even argue with this?

it doesn’t magically make the DVR numbers ‘matter’- it is just a statement of fact


----------



## Garty

LifeInCattleClass said:


> right, so it happens - and it doesn’t happen for ‘no reason’ - cause tv does not work that way
> 
> therefore, i see no issue with my original statement of ’tv ad sales likely has a metric for minutes watched of pip and other similar formats’ to try and show there is still value on DVR
> 
> and the reason i know this, is when DVR came out years ago, they tried to sell it to me on this basis - so if it was happening that far back in south africa, no reason to think its not happening in the US
> 
> i would like to know why anybody would even argue with this?
> 
> it doesn’t magically make the DVR numbers ‘matter’- it is just a statement of fact


I always have your back sir.


----------



## taker_2004

LifeInCattleClass said:


> right, so it happens - and it doesn’t happen for ‘no reason’ - cause tv does not work that way
> 
> therefore, i see no issue with my original statement of ’tv ad sales likely has a metric for minutes watched of pip and other similar formats’ to try and show there is still value on DVR
> 
> and the reason i know this, is when DVR came out years ago, they tried to sell it to me on this basis - so if it was happening that far back in south africa, no reason to think its not happening in the US
> 
> i would like to know why anybody would even argue with this?
> 
> it doesn’t magically make the DVR numbers ‘matter’- it is just a statement of fact


I hadn't really thought about that aspect of PIP advertising--the additional benefit it has on adverts being viewed on recorded content. It would also make sense that it would have more of these types of advertisements if AEW has a larger portion of +3/7 numbers than traditional sports (which everybody I know wants to watch them live or just watch highlights).


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

taker_2004 said:


> I hadn't really thought about that aspect of PIP advertising--the additional benefit it has on adverts being viewed on recorded content. It would also make sense that it would have more of these types of advertisements if AEW has a larger portion of +3/7 numbers than traditional sports (which everybody I know wants to watch them live or just watch highlights).


this is why live tv is still getting big money

they are trying everything to make the viewers watch the ads

normal programming does not have this ‘hook’


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Holy shit, I didn't watch the show but they had Punk confront Ellen DeGeneres?? That's cool af


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> View attachment 107469
> 
> 
> Holy shit, I didn't watch the show but they had Punk confront Ellen DeGeneres?? That's cool af


great insight on ratings


----------



## .christopher.

The Definition of Technician said:


> Once again, Omega fails to maintain or increase viewers. Take the belt off him asap.


It's pretty crazy, really. Omega is supposed to be the face of the elite, this anti wwe movement that helped create aew, this big star, but he never positively impacts the ratings.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

LifeInCattleClass said:


> great insight on ratings


Ellen is a draw brother


----------



## Not Lying

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Ellen is a draw brother


She’d honestly make a great heel manager.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite 9/1*

Viewership: 1,047,000
18-49: 0.37 (486,000)

Down from last week (Punk's first Dynamite) in both categories but up from the week before in both categories.


----------



## Joe Gill

Just further proof that most CM Punk fans were already AEW fans... and the ones that arent will just casually watch CM Punk clips on youtube. Vast majority of wrestling fans are already aware of the AEW product... its going to be very difficult to further grow the AEW audience as long as TK keeps pandering to the Indy marks with Young Bucks, QT Marshall and vanilla midgets. Its just a fact at this point. Ratings will hover around 1 million for a while... there are no needle movers in AEW.


----------



## holy

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite 9/1*
> 
> Viewership: 1,047,000
> 18-49: 0.38 (486,000)


As I suggested last week, the positive effects of Punk are gonna wear off soon, and it's showing. Barely above a million viewers...they've gotten better numbers in the past without Punk.

That's what happens when the show is mostly poor outside of Punk. I was baffled when I read that Billy Gunn turned heel on Big Show. It was literally a headline on a wrestling news site I visit. I would've hardly cared if that happened in 2004...why should I care now?


----------



## Jbardo37

At least it’s still above a million, however you would have hoped they would be doing around 1.2 now.


----------



## Joe Gill

holy said:


> As I suggested last week, the positive effects of Punk are gonna wear off soon, and it's showing. Barely above a million viewers...they've gotten better numbers in the past without Punk.
> 
> That's what happens when the show is mostly poor outside of Punk. I was baffled when I read that Billy Gunn turned heel on Big Show. It was literally a headline on a wrestling news site I visit. I would've hardly cared if that happened in 2004...why should I care now?


This is 100% on TK now. He is spending all of this money on talent yet continues to book Dynamite like a glorified Indy show. Until he starts to think bigger picture and creating a product that is more appealing to casual and mainstream fans with larger than life personalities the ratings will continue to hover around 1 million regardless who they sign. Theres a reason why Vince never invested much effort in small guys...they have very limited appeal. As long as TK tries to build around Jungle Boy, Darby, Cassidey and other little dweebs the ratings will never go higher in a meaningful way.


----------



## rich110991

I wish it was more, but as long as it’s one of the most watched shows on cable, if not the most watched show, then that’s all that matters right?


----------



## 3venflow

Dynamite was number one on cable in the key demographic. If you look at the demos, it's really females that keeps the total viewership from growing significantly more. Their male following is very strong and destroyed everything on cable last night.


----------



## rbl85

I expect them to do around 1.2M next week thanks to the post PPV bump.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Not an amazing number, but good enough.


----------



## Danielallen1410

When just over a million is seen as a poor rating I think they are doing pretty well.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite 9/1*
> 
> Viewership: 1,047,000
> 18-49: 0.37 (486,000)
> 
> Down from last week (Punk's first Dynamite) in both categories but up from the week before in both categories.


nice


----------



## Jbardo37

I think as long as they stay above a million it’s fine.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Probably a drop from that card last week but you really can't do more than being number one on the night ..might just need to come with terms this is their ceiling right now


----------



## Geert Wilders

I did not expect them to fall back to normal rating so quickly. However Punk is not doing anything significant yet. Once they put the title on him, rating will increase again.


----------



## Cube2

the only thing at this point that will keep AEW rating hovering around the 1 mill mark. are the debuts of guys that were released from WWE in upcoming weeks.


----------



## rbl85

Geert Wilders said:


> I did not expect them to fall back to normal rating so quickly. However Punk is not doing anything significant yet. Once they put the title on him, rating will increase again.


Now more than 1M is normal rating ? 

If i remember correctly a few weeks ago they were losing viewers and the end was near but now 1M is nomal XD


----------



## 3venflow

rbl85 said:


> If i remember correctly a few weeks ago they were losing viewers and the end was near but now 1M is nomal XD


Relevant:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1433528792136536066


----------



## Geert Wilders

rbl85 said:


> Now more than 1M is normal rating ?
> 
> If i remember correctly a few weeks ago they were losing viewers and the end was near but now 1M is nomal XD


When did i say this?


----------



## rbl85

Geert Wilders said:


> When did i say this?


Might confuse you with that crazy legit DMD.


----------



## bdon

This is what happens when you book a shitty card: the following week’s rating takes a bit regardless of how good that week’s show will be.

Precisely why you don’t want to have shitty cards on the follow-up to surprise debuts. They fucked around and messed up the week following Sting’s shocking debut as well.


----------



## Geert Wilders

rbl85 said:


> Might confuse you with that crazy legit DMD.


fair enough.

1 million was their average and normal after the fans returned and before punk returned.

like i said, a significant feud and unmissable feud for punk. think omega vs punk. the fans will increase.


----------



## rbl85

Geert Wilders said:


> fair enough.
> 
> 1 million was their average and normal after the fans returned and before punk returned.
> 
> like i said, a significant feud and unmissable feud for punk. think omega vs punk. the fans will increase.


Except that the first few shows with fans back were special shows.

If in in 2 weeks you do a special show then they will be back to 1.2-1.3


----------



## Geert Wilders

rbl85 said:


> Except that the first few shows with fans back were special shows.


that's true. we shall see then. i think next wednesday till be 1.3-1.4 with brian danielson's return


----------



## Mr316

AEW won’t get 1.3 million viewers as long as QT has a spot on the show and you have matches like Jack Evans and OC. It’s that simple. These segments hurt the overall quality of the show and…the viewership.


----------



## P.H. Hatecraft

Loooool. 🤣😂

Flippity floppy flop.

That’s about what I thought they would get this week. They’ve fucked up Punk’s return. Failed to capitalize on his momentum.


----------



## A PG Attitude

A two year old wrestling company regularly getting the number one spot in the ratings and people think they're failing. Think about that for a moment.


----------



## holy

Joe Gill said:


> This is 100% on TK now. He is spending all of this money on talent yet continues to book Dynamite like a glorified Indy show. Until he starts to think bigger picture and creating a product that is more appealing to casual and mainstream fans with larger than life personalities the ratings will continue to hover around 1 million regardless who they sign. Theres a reason why Vince never invested much effort in small guys...they have very limited appeal. As long as TK tries to build around Jungle Boy, Darby, Cassidey and other little dweebs the ratings will never go higher in a meaningful way.


I agree 100% man. Honestly, I think this is why Vince doesn't sweat AEW much. What's the point of Punk's 7 year long, much-awaited return if the viewership is just gonna be similar as to what it was before? 

This NEEDS to be addressed!


----------



## bdon

Mr316 said:


> AEW won’t get 1.3 million viewers as long as QT has a spot on the show and you have matches like Jack Evans and OC. It’s that simple. These segments hurt the overall quality of the show and…the viewership.


People don’t want to admit this.

All of the goddamn star power that AEW has, and we still have to deal with QT Marshall and the Nightmare bullshit cause of Cody. We have to have Jack Evans and bullshit HFO, because they have to let Hardy have 15 mins of getting his story into the show.

Meanwhile Omega and Mox are doing fuckall, Sammy Guevara is on DARK tagging with Fuego del Sol, Jungle Boy is in a fucking Buy-In match, etc.

QT FUCKING MARSHALL!!!


----------



## The_Great_One21

Literally doing less than they were a month ago ffs and they have added Punk.

This business is finished to the mainstream/casual audience. Literally doubt even The Rock could bump the audiences at this point.


----------



## Whoanma

bdon said:


> Meanwhile Omega and Mox are doing fuckall, Sammy Guevara is on DARK tagging with Fuego del Sol, Jungle Boy is in a fucking Buy-In match, etc.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> if it has no value…. Why do it?
> 
> why even make the call to end a match during pip?
> 
> i think you assume too much - all the decisions they’ve been making shows it does have value - otherwise it would’ve stopped
> 
> also, isn’t golf and nascar pretty popular?


No Golf, Soccer, Formula 1, Nascar, European Soccer aren't all that popular in the US. Not to say they have no fans, but they're basically on the wrestling end of things where unless you watch those sports, those stars would walk around unnoticed. But yeah you're not going to watch an NFL game and see multiple box to box ads, not yet at least.



Garty said:


> Life, this is what I've seen here in North America using picture-in-picture, live on-going breaking news (elections, emergencies, disasters, events, etc.), PGA, MLS, Formula 1, NASCAR, American Football, European Football and a few others I'm sure, but these examples I know for a fact.


----------



## Smark1995

The_Great_One21 said:


> Literally doing less than they were a month ago ffs and they have added Punk.
> 
> This business is finished to the mainstream/casual audience. Literally doubt even The Rock could bump the audiences at this point.


Get off the cocaine! If The Rock appears in AEW for a month or two they will beat RAW in the ratings! The Rock is a giant Draw!


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> Dynamite was number one on cable in the key demographic. If you look at the demos, it's really females that keeps the total viewership from growing significantly more. Their male following is very strong and destroyed everything on cable last night.
> 
> View attachment 107493


Good number, can we all take a moment to acknowledge 1.7 million United States citizens watched Dr. Pimple Popper  my country man


----------



## AnonymousOne

Oof, maybe Reigns was right regarding Punk being a needle mover


----------



## The_Great_One21

The ratings won’t climb until TK starts booking better.

Punk drew new fans and instead of putting on a stacked 10/10 show he put on a bang average jobber fest last week. And he’s paid the price this week.


----------



## RapShepard

* TRACKING PUNK WITH RAPSHEPARD*

*Rampage #1*- 740k .31 demo

*Dynamite 8/18*- 975k .35 demo

*Rampage #2 with Punk*- 1.129 million .53 demo

*Dynamite 8/25 with Punk*- 1.172 million .48 demo

*Rampage #3 no Punk*- 722k .34 demo

*Dynamite 9/1 with Punk*- 1.047 million .37 demo


----------



## yeahright2

Okay, we got the ratings. Not bad..

AEW Ratings prediction game
Congratulations @RapShepard , you win this week. 

Again a decent number, but Punk isn´t a big ratings mover, that much is clear.. I´m guessing his fans are already watching AEW. They had a big boost at his debut (old WWE/F fans tuning in to see Punk perhaps?) , but TK booking dropped the ball imo.


----------



## Mister Sinister

It's time. Sign Bischoff. Hire a writing team.

Next week is their best opportunity to reset this ship. Fans are going to tune in for results and to see new stories begin. They have to deliver a show where things happen. It's got to be the sort of show where Christian opens the show as champion and a title match is set for the next week on Dynamite where he loses to a new heel. This show needs to alter the direction.


----------



## The_Great_One21

Mister Sinister said:


> It's time. Sign Bischoff. Hire a writing team.
> 
> Next week is their best opportunity to reset this ship. Fans are going to tune in for results and to see new stories begin. They have to deliver a show where things happen. It's got to be the sort of show where Christian opens the show as champion and a title match is set for the next week on Dynamite where he loses to a new heel. This show needs to alter the direction.


No thanks.
The idea Hangman doesn’t dethrone Kenny is horrific.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> No Golf, Soccer, Formula 1, Nascar, European Soccer aren't all that popular in the US. Not to say they have no fans, but they're basically on the wrestling end of things where unless you watch those sports, those stars would walk around unnoticed. But yeah you're not going to watch an NFL game and see multiple box to box ads, not yet at least.


wonderful - none of this goes against any of my original statements


----------



## P.H. Hatecraft

Joe Gill said:


> This is 100% on TK now. He is spending all of this money on talent yet continues to book Dynamite like a glorified Indy show. Until he starts to think bigger picture and creating a product that is more appealing to casual and mainstream fans with larger than life personalities the ratings will continue to hover around 1 million regardless who they sign. Theres a reason why Vince never invested much effort in small guys...they have very limited appeal. As long as TK tries to build around Jungle Boy, Darby, Cassidey and other little dweebs the ratings will never go higher in a meaningful way.


one of the first things I noticed watching Dynamite was the crowd. It was mostly a lake of dudes. Very few women, children, families and POC. They will never break out of their ceiling like that.


----------



## yeahright2

P.H. Hatecraft said:


> one of the first things I noticed watching Dynamite was the crowd. It was mostly a lake of dudes. Very few women, children, families and POC. They will never break out of their ceiling like that.


It´s a sausage fest alright. And on the off-chance there´s a girl, she´s sure to get on camera.


----------



## Mr316

P.H. Hatecraft said:


> one of the first things I noticed watching Dynamite was the crowd. It was mostly a lake of dudes. Very few women, children, families and POC. They will never break out of their ceiling like that.


The last thing AEW needs is bunch of 5 year old kids with their families in the arena ruining the atmosphere of the show.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> wonderful - none of this goes against any of my original statements


You're original statement doesn't mean much when it's know that advertisers don't care about DVR


----------



## RapShepard

Mr316 said:


> The last thing AEW needs is bunch of 5 year old kids with their families in the arena ruining the atmosphere of the show.


Stupid statement it's not like they have an ECW environment of actual adulthood. Nothing wrong with having kids get into their show.


----------



## French Connection

Congrats to AEW to consolidate the ratings. 

I don't think we need to have PPV-type shows every week to keep the audience.

Honestly, yesterday the first hour was, in my opinion, very good in terms of booking and story-telling.
It was missing for the second hour though, maybe like 15 minutes from an interesting angle.
QT vs P.Wights shouldn't be on air yesterday.

I suspect that the management of AEW must have noticed that the audiences were better during the first hour than the second. On the other hand, tehy will clearly have to capitalize on it in the coming weeks.


----------



## Mongstyle

Biggest return of the last 20 years!

Lol at the delulu folk who said that. Any sensible person should've seen this coming since Punk was never a needle mover. The only return worse than Punk's is Edge's in 2020. At least Punk had a minor boost on his return for a show before it's business as normal. Edge had none at all. That was completely pathetic.

Meanwhile all of the other major returns in the last decade be it Rock, Lesnar, Batista, Sting, or Goldberg were much bigger than Punk's in terms of numbers, either through a much bigger increase in their initial return or through the numbers bump in the average of their run. Hell, Reigns return from cancer after being off the show for 4 months led to a higher sustained increase in numbers on Raw than this shit Punk return has.

The problem with AEW is it's just a shitty looking and booked show. You've got Jericho, Ambrose, and now Punk on the show. You will soon have Daniel Bryan who is more valuable than all of the aforementioned. I see nothing changing however because it just screams D show. It's like watching NXT. Who the hell wants to watch that shit?

They need to invest in meaningful stories and improve their presentation. Until they do that, it's not going to improve. They'll just start losing viewers over the coming year.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> You're original statement doesn't mean much when it's know that advertisers don't care about DVR


then why do the pip?


----------



## El Hammerstone

LifeInCattleClass said:


> then why do the pip?


To keep people from changing the channel during commercial breaks


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> then why do the pip?


For the live show, you're talking as if the PiP is added in for DVR only. If advertisers were worried about DVR ads every ad would be PiP to avoid skipping it.


----------



## DammitChrist

holy said:


> I agree 100% man. Honestly, I think this is why Vince doesn't sweat AEW much. What's the point of Punk's 7 year long, much-awaited return if the viewership is just gonna be similar as to what it was before?
> 
> *This NEEDS to be addressed!*


Nah, I'm sure they're ecstatic about the good rating.


----------



## P.H. Hatecraft

Mr316 said:


> The last thing AEW needs is bunch of 5 year old kids with their families in the arena ruining the atmosphere of the show.


Yeah. Why build loyal fans for life.


----------



## reamstyles

Mr316 said:


> The last thing AEW needs is bunch of 5 year old kids with their families in the arena ruining the atmosphere of the show.


Lol aew isnt as good as 1/ 5th of attitude era.. you want to cater the "demo" with that product?


----------



## reamstyles

P.H. Hatecraft said:


> Yeah. Why build loyal fans for life.


Hahaha some people still doesnt get it.. the attitude era fans were 10 year olds 11 year olds..you are pushing Darby here who can cater these young guys..why have him the guy who will come to the rescue for punk when elite attck punk..have sting join him you hit the present past and future in one stone..


----------



## DammitChrist

For the record, I really hope that Anthony Ogogo returns this Sunday so that QT Marshall can quit hogging TV time. 

He’s like the ONLY guy in AEW that I even question getting this much TV time.


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> For the record, I really hope that Anthony Ogogo returns this Sunday so that QT Marshall can quit hogging TV time.
> 
> He’s like the ONLY guy in AEW that I even question getting this much TV time.


Only if Big Show is going to put him over big time


----------



## DaSlacker

Wrestling is paying the price for the death of kayfabe.... Or if not the death of it, the willing descent into a mark fest. It's all arm chair booking, this is awesome, cheering for heels. There's no real emotional investment in storylines or chatacters. The only investment is in the actual performer as opposed to their television persona. Most of the fights are too video game lite to make you believe and due to the understanding of how it all works only appeals to a niche audience. 

That and having a predominantly sausage fest audience is why AEW hit its ceiling in a cord cutting world. 

WWE has similar issues but benefits from decades of being a goto brand and content provider. 

Still, if the demo stays high then they should easily triple their rights fees in a couple of years time. For Khan the investment should pay off.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Apologies if this was already posted, I must've missed it. I know Rampage wasn't particularly interesting this week, but...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1432748219159793672
> The viewership looks like it dropped like a rock in Q2 and beyond. My guess is Punk/Darby potential interaction AEW was promoting got people interested. Probably why the show started near 800k. Then once that Punk/Darby video package played and people realized nothing was actually happening with them, they tuned out.


*That's exactly where I tuned out. I'm not sure why they thought anyone would give a fuck about a Dark level Divas match involving valets with sloppy wrestling, and another comedy session with Brandon Cutler in the main event, but it's clear that no one cares about the world title feud right now and it would be a huge mistake to end with that on Sunday. 

Whoever challenges for the title first between Punk and Bryan needs to take it off Omega immediately because his reign has been a complete disaster. Same with The Young Bucks. Get all the titles off The Elite and make them fuck off to the midcard so the real Stars can actually maintain interest.

As for this week's rating, it seems like last week's awful show left a bad taste in people's mouths and they didn't bother to come back. Yesterday's show was actually good overall. As I stated before, the needle isn't moved.*


----------



## rich110991

So many haters in this thread 😂


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *That's exactly where I tuned out. I'm not sure why they thought anyone would give a fuck about a Dark level Divas match involving valets with sloppy wrestling, and another comedy session with Brandon Cutler in the main event, but it's clear that no one cares bout the world title feud right now and it would be a huge mistake to end with that on Sunday.
> 
> Whoever challenges for the title first between Punk and Bryan needs to take it off Omega immediately because his reign has been a complete disaster. Same with The Young Bucks. Get all the titles off The Elite and make them fuck off to the midcard so the real Stars can actually maintain interest.*


Hey, you can be all pissy on here for as much as you desperately want; but thankfully, the Elite aren’t going anywhere, and they absolutely deserved to be near the main-event scene. 

They’re too popular and talented to be depushed into the midcard scene. 

For the record, Kenny Omega’s AEW World title reign has been a really fun one. His match against Christian Cage will surely be a classic this Sunday, and he has no business losing his world championship until he faces Adam Page at Full Gear; which is STILL 2 months away! 

The Young Bucks consistently deliver some of the best tag team matches in the company, and they’ve been doing so during their solid Tag title reign too. 

The only example of something that’s actually disastrous on here is your blind hatred and bias toward the Elite here anyway.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*It says a lot that even the women weren't interested in the Divas match:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1433528282822103040

Hopefully the next challenger for the women's title is worth a damn and we get a real feud out of it instead of this half assed nonsense with Statlander staring into the abyss. The women's mid card needs Shida back on television and Jade having real matches. No more shitty cat fights with blonde valets.*


----------



## Buhalovski

rich110991 said:


> So many haters in this thread 😂


We are not haters we are just dissapointed coz we want AEW to succeed.

Saying only million viewers is a normal thing after you had such a huge debut... come on lads, really?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Tsvetoslava said:


> We are not haters we are just dissapointed coz we want AEW to succeed.
> 
> Saying only million viewers is a normal thing after you had such a huge debut... come on lads, really?


* This number would have been fine pre-Punk, but after all the shit people talked about NEEDLE MOVING, going back to the status quo and losing viewers within 2 weeks on a go home show is embarrassing.*


----------



## DammitChrist

They’ve been pulling off Dynamite episodes with over a million viewers more consistently than they were not too long ago.

How are they not succeeding?



The Legit DMD said:


> *It says a lot that even the women weren't interested in the Divas match:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1433528282822103040
> 
> Hopefully the next challenger for the women's title is worth a damn and we get a real feud out of it instead of this half assed nonsense with Statlander staring into the abyss. The women's mid card needs Shida back on television and Jade having real matches. No more shitty cat fights with blonde valets.*


I don’t see how on Earth that you’d complain about ‘Diva-level’ matches, but then proceed to beg for more Jade Cargill in the same sentence when she’s still a big work-in-progress wrestling-wise so far.



Klitschko said:


> 2. Did anyone else notice @DammitChrist keeps responding to @The Legit DMD, and DMD keeps ignoring him lol? I think he blocked you brother.


Yea, I don't care that he's being intolerant.

If there's something he says that's questionable (which seems to be often), then I'll publicly call out any nonsense.


----------



## rich110991

Tsvetoslava said:


> We are not haters we are just dissapointed coz we want AEW to succeed.
> 
> Saying only million viewers is a normal thing after you had such a huge debut... come on lads, really?


Some of you are haters and AEW is smashing it.


----------



## 3venflow

Off-topic a bit, but IMO the only really good in-ring female workers in AEW are Shida, Riho, Thunder Rosa and Serena. I want to say Jamie Hayter, but I want to see how she fares outside of Stardom first. Britt has the charisma that her in-ring shortcomings are not important. Just give her opponents who can mask them while she improves. The rest are either works in progress who could go either way (like Jade, Tay, Leyla, Red Velvet, Anna Jay), just decent (Statlander) or mediocre (like Penelope, Bunny, Nyla, Swole, Abadon).

They could really use a couple more who can really go in the ring, starting with Tessa Blanchard, the only top-class female wrestler on the free market. There isn't a great deal of available talent out there in America, but I'd probably also sign Trish Adora and offer Io Shirai a good deal when her NXT contract is up soon. Trish Adora's match against Allysin Kay on ROH TV was better than any AEW women's match since Riho vs. Serena and she's very watchable.

Since AEW dubs itself the 'professional wrestling' alternative, the in-ring quality of the performer has to be important and I'm constantly unimpressed by the women's matches outside of a handful of wrestlers. As mentioned, it feels more like a 'divas' division sometimes when it's the eye candy putting on dull matches and not the 'women's' division it felt like for a while when they had a string of really good matches.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> Off-topic a bit, but IMO the only really good in-ring female workers in AEW are Shida, Riho, Thunder Rosa and Serena. I want to say Jamie Hayter, but I want to see how she fares outside of Stardom first. Britt has the charisma that her in-ring shortcomings are not important. Just give her opponents who can mask them while she improves. The rest are either works in progress who could go either way (like Jade, Tay, Leyla, Red Velvet, Anna Jay), just decent (Statlander) or mediocre (like Penelope, Bunny, Nyla, Swole, Abadon).
> 
> They could really use a couple more who can really go in the ring, starting with Tessa Blanchard, the only top-class female wrestler on the free market. There isn't a great deal of available talent out there in America, but I'd probably also sign Trish Adora and offer Io Shirai a good deal when her NXT contract is up soon. Trish Adora's match against Allysin Kay on ROH TV was better than any AEW women's match since Riho vs. Serena and she's very watchable.
> 
> Since AEW dubs itself the 'professional wrestling' alternative, the in-ring quality of the performer has to be important and I'm constantly unimpressed by the women's matches outside of a handful of wrestlers. As mentioned, it feels more like a 'divas' division sometimes when it's the eye candy putting on dull matches and not the 'women's' division it felt like for a while when they had a string of really good matches.


*We finally agree on something. As much as I love Britt, her promos cannot carry this entire division. We need high quality matches and feuds. She's talking to herself every week while her opponent is almost always underwhelming and we're just sitting here with our hands in our pockets waiting for the inevitable Thunder Rosa feud. This is why I want Ruby to win the battle royal to shake things up and give her a challenger worth a damn until we get to that point. 

I brought up putting Jade on television more because it's time for her to have a real matches. She can't go another 6 months squashing people with two moves. We need to see if she's actually improved so she can eventually be built to be placed in the title picture herself.* * She clearly generates lots of interest just by existing*.


----------



## Buhalovski

AEW hasn't been that hotter since the creation of it. In just a few days time we are about to have the two biggest stars since the Cena, Batista and Orton generation, how the hell I am about to be happy with such a low raiting... I know wrestling is dead, DVR is a thing, AEW is still pretty new and the other blabla stuff you always hear but I'd expect at least something close to RAW or maybe around 1.5


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Tsvetoslava said:


> AEW hasn't been that hotter since the creation of it. In just a few days time we are about to have the two biggest stars since the Cena, Batista and Orton generation, how the hell I am about to be happy with such a low raiting... I know wrestling is dead, DVR is a thing, AEW is still pretty new and the other blabla stuff you always hear but I'd expect at least something close to RAW or maybe around 1.5


*I thought Punk's first Dynamite would spike 1.4 and they would stabilize between 1.2 and 1.3. That would have been fine until Daniel Bryan's debut. Pulling the usual rating two weeks after his long-awaited return to wrestling is very underwhelming. Even his fans are accepting the truth at this point.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1433542032237023232*


----------



## Joe Gill

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, I'm sure they're ecstatic about the good rating.


TK just spent a crap ton of money signing Punk, Andrade, Christian, Big Show, Henry, Allister and a bunch of other guys including soon to be Daniel Bryan , Wyatt and others.. yet ratings havent moved much higher at all since NXT switched days. If you are spending all that additional money and the needle isnt moving there is no way they are ecstatic.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Punk did move the needle though and made an impact. This week was lower than what they should've gotten all things considered, but it's still not a bad number. When they're losing viewership year-over-year (which right now isn't fair to compare since last year had NXT as competition), or going back into 700-900k average territory with Punk (and especially if they bring others in like Bryan), then that's a problem.

Quarter numbers will be very telling though. If viewership dropped big time again after Punk's segment (which is a consistent theme), then they should probably aim to have Punk's segment on near end/end of shows. OR (and this is the better solution) start training the audience that Punk can appear more than once. Usually in AEW wrestlers usually have one, maybe two segments, and that's it (and usually when they're in two it's an advertised match, followed by an unadvertised promo randomly thrown in somewhere backstage). Like I didn't expect Punk to show up after his segment again this week.

Rampage will be key as well. Darby/Garcia is the main event - Punk is on commentary. That quarter SHOULD pull a great number assuming it takes up the full quarter. If they take up the quarter and it doesn't do well, that's a very bad sign. It definitely can't be the quarterly decline we saw for last week's show.


----------



## Klitschko

Catching up on the last few pages and I came away with 2 things here. 

1. Good rating. Expected a little more because of CM Punk to be honest, but not bad at all. 

2. Did anyone else notice @DammitChrist keeps responding to @The Legit DMD, and DMD keeps ignoring him lol? I think he blocked you brother.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Lol most of you act like experts. Do any of you work for TNT? If not, shut up. I’m sure they’re pleased


----------



## RapShepard

RubberbandGoat said:


> Lol most of you act like experts. Do any of you work for TNT? If not, shut up. I’m sure they’re pleased


Do you work for TNT?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Punk did move the needle though and made an impact. This week was lower than what they should've gotten all things considered, but it's still not a bad number. When they're losing viewership year-over-year (which right now isn't fair to compare since last year had NXT as competition), or going back into 700-900k average territory with Punk (and especially if they bring others in like Bryan), then that's a problem.
> 
> Quarter numbers will be very telling though. If viewership dropped big time again after Punk's segment (which is a consistent theme), then they should probably aim to have Punk's segment on near end/end of shows. OR (and this is the better solution) start training the audience that Punk can appear more than once. Usually in AEW wrestlers usually have one, maybe two segments, and that's it (and usually when they're in two it's an advertised match, followed by an unadvertised promo randomly thrown in somewhere backstage). Like I didn't expect Punk to show up after his segment again this week.
> 
> Rampage will be key as well. Darby/Garcia is the main event - Punk is on commentary. That quarter SHOULD pull a great number assuming it takes up the full quarter. If they take up the quarter and it doesn't do well, that's a very bad sign. It definitely can't be the quarterly decline we saw for last week's show.


*This is the problem I highlighted two days ago. People will tune into Punk's segments and fuck off afterwards, causing the quarterly numbers to plummet. It's AEW's job to make the card interesting enough for people not to leave in droves. Moving the needle isn't causing a spike in a segment, it's increasing the ratings as a whole on a consistent basis. *


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Britt Baker successfully baited everyone to watch her segment on Twitter with the "big free agency news." That tweet got her more attention than Punk, and of course The Elite.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1433625683016785923*


----------



## Randy Lahey

Demo is lower this week than what I figured it'd be, but The Challenger and Real Housewives continue to pull alot of the female demo.

I think Hangman being out of the title picture has put a damper on the momentum, but I think if he gets back into the swing of things, and with Danielson debuting, they should put together some good shows for the fall and get the demo back around 0.45 or so


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Numbers actually consistent, which is good. Punk getting biggest gain of the night, and looks like Cage/Hobbs got a decent gain as well. Only a 69 (nice) thousand difference between the lowest quarter and highest quarter means people watching were hooked on the show.



The Legit DMD said:


> *This is the problem I highlighted two days ago. People will tune into Punk's segments and fuck off afterwards, causing the quarterly numbers to plummet. It's AEW's job to make the card interesting enough for people not to leave in droves. Moving the needle isn't causing a spike in a segment, it's increasing the ratings as a whole on a consistent basis. *


With these quarters this week, I don't know. I disagree about moving the needle. Moving the needle is creating more buzz than the company gets and drawing more eyeballs to the product than the company typically gets. From the data we have, Punk hit these points. Heck AEW hasn't had a Dynamite quarter go below a million since his debut. Which right now is really too small of a sample size to say anything for sure (two weeks is nothing), but things at this time point more towards him benefiting the product numbers.

If in a few weeks AEW starts getting under a million again and is clearly back in their range of 800k-1M, then we can talk about how AEW botched the hype and fumbled it into nothing. For now though, there's not really anything to suggest that other than maybe the fact no quarter of Dynamite this week went over 1.1M.


----------



## Prosper

Randy Lahey said:


> Demo is lower this week than what I figured it'd be, but The Challenger and Real Housewives continue to pull alot of the female demo.
> 
> I think Hangman being out of the title picture has put a damper on the momentum, but I think if he gets back into the swing of things, and with Danielson debuting, they should put together some good shows for the fall and get the demo back around 0.45 or so


Hangman’s return pop is gonna be crazy. I’m actually kind of happy they kept him off TV since the big elimination match loss and double BTE trigger, which was the move which also kept Moxley out for a while. Being that I’m a huge Omega fan I was fine with his reign being extended as well. Absence makes the heart grow fonder. Hangman is gonna come back in on his cowboy shit and people are gonna be just as excited for his Full Gear/Revolution coronation as they were for his potential All Out coronation.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *Britt Baker successfully baited everyone to watch her segment on Twitter with the "big free agency news." That tweet got her more attention than Punk, and of course The Elite.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1433625683016785923*


I see that you're just going to conveniently ignore the fact that the biggest gain in overall viewership was for CM Punk's segment with Darby Allin (along with Sting), and that the highest demographic numbers were for the Elite's closing segment in the main-event.

The latter is especially weird though because I could've sworn that we were repeatedly told on here that the "Young Bucks" were killing the ratings with their thrilling 15+ minute tag matches.

Anyway, I suppose that gloating and favoritism is more 'important' than looking at these numbers objectively


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

El Hammerstone said:


> To keep people from changing the channel during commercial breaks


yes…. And what does this do?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> For the live show, you're talking as if the PiP is added in for DVR only. If advertisers were worried about DVR ads every ad would be PiP to avoid skipping it.


I’m not acting as if its for DVR only

you agreed with @El Hammerstone that its to keep people from changing the channel, yeah?

this makes what happen? People watch the ads - right?

which will apply for live viewers as well as DVR, right? Because a % will change channel on live, a % will watch on live

the same for dvr - a % will forward and a % will watch

now - are you going to pretend that tv sales people are not all over this metric to try and ‘sell’ value?

‘no sir, dvr is not a problem - X % of our households does not forward during ad break xyz because we have pip. Especially the ads on the out and the in’

its shocking to me that i am even having this discussion - its not a wrestling discussion, its an advertising one

Which if you disagree with the above scenario, you obviously know little about - which means i am really just wasting my time here trying to explain something to you that you won’t get

i am not saying this makes dvr ratings ‘matter’, i am not saying it makes programming with pip worth more - i am pointing out that is the reason for it

in some cases it will be worth more, in other cases it‘ll be worth less - depends on the programming, timeslot, tv channel and advertiser


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Tsvetoslava said:


> *We are not haters we are just dissapointed coz we want AEW to succeed.*
> 
> Saying only million viewers is a normal thing after you had such a huge debut... come on lads, really?


well then, be overjoyed cause its succeeding


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Britt Baker successfully baited everyone to watch her segment on Twitter with the "big free agency news." That tweet got her more attention than Punk, and of course The Elite.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1433625683016785923*


did the bucks tank the rating like you always say?

or was their number on par or above the average of the show?


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I’m not acting as if its for DVR only
> 
> you agreed with @El Hammerstone that its to keep people from changing the channel, yeah?
> 
> this makes what happen? People watch the ads - right?
> 
> which will apply for live viewers as well as DVR, right? Because a % will change channel on live, a % will watch on live
> 
> the same for dvr - a % will forward and a % will watch
> 
> now - are you going to pretend that tv sales people are not all over this metric to try and ‘sell’ value?
> 
> ‘no sir, dvr is not a problem - X % of our households does not forward during ad break xyz because we have pip. Especially the ads on the out and the in’
> 
> its shocking to me that i am even having this discussion - its not a wrestling discussion, its an advertising one
> 
> Which if you disagree with the above scenario, you obviously know little about - which means i am really just wasting my time here trying to explain something to you that you won’t get


Okay here's how we button this up plain and simple, if advertisers cared about DVR why wouldn't they push for all ads on sports programing to be Picture in Picture? That way you're forced to watch them to not miss action whether you watch live or later? You don't live in the US, you're assertion that PiP is this common thing in US sports and live TV holds 0 weight because you don't live here and don't watch American cable on the regular. It's just not really a thing here at the moment in the major sports. Your point on paper makes sense because "well PiP forces people to watch the ads because they don't want to fast forward through action", but in reality in the US right now it might as well be a shiny pokémon type uncommon.


----------



## DammitChrist

Anyway, last night's episode of Dynamite was a really strong night for AEW's top acts atm.

Kudos to CM Punk, Sting, Darby Allin, Britt Baker, Kenny Omega, Christian Cage, and the Young Bucks for holding up the viewership (especially) well this week 

I'm sure that the hotness of Tay Conti and Penelope Ford contributed to that high quarter rating too.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Okay here's how we button this up plain and simple, *if advertisers cared about DVR why wouldn't they push for all ads on sports programing to be Picture in Picture? *That way you're forced to watch them to not miss action whether you watch live or later? You don't live in the US, you're assertion that PiP is this common thing in US sports and live TV holds 0 weight because you don't live here and don't watch American cable on the regular. It's just not really a thing here at the moment in the major sports. Your point on paper makes sense because "well PiP forces people to watch the ads because they don't want to fast forward through action", but in reality in the US right now it might as well be a shiny pokémon type uncommon.


how do you know its not what they are trying?

stop thinking about ‘living in the country’ - garty named a couple of sports that fit the bill and news and a few more where it does happen - and he ‘lives there’

so it might be the case of pip fits the bill for a type of programming - ie> will no break in action like golf, nascar ect as even you pointed out

maybe sponsors of the bigger sports don’t want it or maybe there are regulations

that. Is. Not. The. Point.

the point is


we’ve established it happens in more programming that wrestling, right?
we’ve established it is to make people watch ads, right?
what holds true for live will hold true for DVR in % to some degree, right? A % of people will watch the ads
and we know there is no altruism in tv, its about money

Take all of this, tie it in a bow and come to your own conclusion about what this means for an ad sale department when an advertiser ask them ‘but what about DVR, i want a 20% discount because you are cable and i know there is a tendency in current market to record and forward’

you’re smart enough to from here take it yourself

if it makes you feel better, your beloved WWE does pip as well, so we’re not having an ‘AEW gud’ discussion - maybe that’ll help 🤷‍♂️


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> how do you know its not what they are trying?
> 
> stop thinking about ‘living in the country’ - garty named a couple of sports that fit the bill and news and a few more where it does happen - and he ‘lives there’
> 
> so it might be the case of pip fits the bill for a type of programming - ie> will no break in action like golf, nascar ect as even you pointed out
> 
> maybe sponsors of the bigger sports don’t want it or maybe there are regulations
> 
> that. Is. Not. The. Point.
> 
> the point is
> 
> 
> we’ve established it happens in more programming that wrestling, right?
> we’ve established it is to make people watch ads, right?
> what holds true for live will hold true for DVR in % to some degree, right? A % of people will watch the ads
> and we know there is no altruism in tv, its about money
> 
> Take all of this, tie it in a bow and come to your own conclusion about what this means for an ad sale department when an advertiser ask them ‘but what about DVR, i want a 20% discount because you are cable and i know there is a tendency in current market to record and forward’
> 
> you’re smart enough to from here take it yourself
> 
> if it makes you feel better, your beloved WWE does pip as well, so we’re not having an ‘AEW gud’ discussion - maybe that’ll help


This is from the site we here were giving ratings credit to and acknowledging as legit. DVR just doesn't matter regardless of the company. If it did advertisers would be pushing for PiP heavy because now there's no skip, they may in the future, but as of now it just hasn't penetrated in the biggest sports. 

You might like a US based wrestling company and visit the US sometimes and get a few US channels, but you don't live in the US. You don't have a better idea of what goes on, on US cable than me. I live in Ohio, you live in South Africa act like it. But no as of now according to ShowBuzz DVR is ignored by advertisers and according to advertisers not doing more PiP ads in the major sports they don't care about them at the moment 






__





Showbuzz Basics | Showbuzz Daily







showbuzzdaily.com


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Legit DMD said:


> *1.1 is what they were hitting 2 weeks ago without Punk. That's not moving the needle. The point is they can't keep putting on shitty shows and rest on their laurels because they signed Punk. People will just get the notification that he's on TV from social media, watch his segments, and turn this shit off. It happened instantly.*


Yup, I hate to say it but I called this. I said Punk was a huge get but Tony and friends would find a way to make him "just another guy" by Christmas and it seems I had too much faith in him because Punk is already just another guy.

The feud with 2.0 and Daniel Garcia will turn even more people away from AEW.



The Legit DMD said:


> *You're so obsessed with an imaginary anti-AEW agenda that you refuse to acknowledge that they need to increase show quality to increase ratings.*


To stick up for DC here I think he genuinely thinks AEW is the greatest wrestling show of all time. If you go off of his posts and what he likes why would he not like a 20 minute flipfest between Young Bucks and someone else?

Not shitting on him either, I'm happy for him that he has a product to watch weekly that he loves so much.



RapShepard said:


> Regular US sports don't contain PiP ads like that they just don't.


Yeah, can't say it's a thing here in Australia either. I'm sure it happens every now and then if you look for an example but not often enough that you notice it.



Joe Gill said:


> This is 100% on TK now. He is spending all of this money on talent yet continues to book Dynamite like a glorified Indy show. Until he starts to think bigger picture and creating a product that is more appealing to casual and mainstream fans with larger than life personalities the ratings will continue to hover around 1 million regardless who they sign. Theres a reason why Vince never invested much effort in small guys...they have very limited appeal. As long as TK tries to build around Jungle Boy, Darby, Cassidey and other little dweebs the ratings will never go higher in a meaningful way.


It comes down to TK not being a booker (Despite what Meltzer says) and not having a strong eye for talent. He is booking for himself and whilst there are a million or so people who are into that he's alienating the rest of his audience.



rich110991 said:


> I wish it was more, but as long as it’s one of the most watched shows on cable, if not the most watched show, then that’s all that matters right?


Nope. I'd be absolutely ropeable if I was Tony Khan, had spent several million dollars a year to secure this huge name in CM Punk, saw a ratings boost and then saw it drop down to what I had before.

It's not like Punk signed on for 500k a year...



3venflow said:


> Relevant:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1433528792136536066


I don't think I've ever seen anyone here say any of that except them hitting a million and it took NXT to leave and literally millions of dollars in signing popular talent to get there.



The_Great_One21 said:


> Literally doing less than they were a month ago ffs and they have added Punk.
> 
> This business is finished to the mainstream/casual audience. Literally doubt even The Rock could bump the audiences at this point.


Don't blame the audience, it's bad booking. If AEW was absolutely crushing it every week the ratings would reflect that. What the ratings show is that AEW does something interesting and then drops their lollies and fucks up driving the audience away.



Mr316 said:


> The last thing AEW needs is bunch of 5 year old kids with their families in the arena ruining the atmosphere of the show.


This would result in the company growing so it's actually the first thing they need. Lucky for you though Tony doesn't know how to hook these people.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> well then, be overjoyed cause its succeeding


Is it?


----------



## fabi1982

RapShepard said:


> This is from the site we here were giving ratings credit to and acknowledging as legit. DVR just doesn't matter regardless of the company. If it did advertisers would be pushing for PiP heavy because now there's no skip, they may in the future, but as of now it just hasn't penetrated in the biggest sports.
> 
> You might like a US based wrestling company and visit the US sometimes and get a few US channels, but you don't live in the US. You don't have a better idea of what goes on, on US cable than me. I live in Ohio, you live in South Africa act like it. But no as of now according to ShowBuzz DVR is ignored by advertisers and according to advertisers not doing more PiP ads in the major sports they don't care about them at the moment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Showbuzz Basics | Showbuzz Daily
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> showbuzzdaily.com


Now I wanna see my mustard brother counter that argument


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> This is from the site we here were giving ratings credit to and acknowledging as legit. DVR just doesn't matter regardless of the company. If it did advertisers would be pushing for PiP heavy because now there's no skip, they may in the future, but as of now it just hasn't penetrated in the biggest sports.
> 
> You might like a US based wrestling company and visit the US sometimes and get a few US channels, but you don't live in the US. You don't have a better idea of what goes on, on US cable than me. I live in Ohio, you live in South Africa act like it. But no as of now according to ShowBuzz DVR is ignored by advertisers and according to advertisers not doing more PiP ads in the major sports they don't care about them at the moment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Showbuzz Basics | Showbuzz Daily
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> showbuzzdaily.com


what does ‘live anywhere‘ have to do with anything?

you live in bumfuck Ohio and you’re most likely an accountant or something?

i’ve lived in 7 countries and have been in advertising for 20 years spending millions every month worldwide

you have absolutely no idea what would be of interest to an advertiser or an advertising company

frankly its like explaining atomic cell division to a toddler

if you wind your neck back in and deflate your puffed chest and just read what i wrote logically and with understanding, you will see that it is all correct statements - pip is an attempt to make live ads and dvr ads worth more - otherwise there. Is. No. Point in doing it

but i guess that ship has sailed, rap has put down his marker and now he ‘has to be right’ - we’ve gone down this road before mate, the blackhole of Rap’s “logic”

i frankly have no taste for it anymore - believe what you want / what does it matter to me 🤷‍♂️


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> what does ‘live anywhere‘ have to do with anything?
> 
> you live in bumfuck Ohio and you’re most likely an accountant or something?
> 
> i’ve lived in 7 countries and have been in advertising for 20 years spending millions every month worldwide
> 
> you have absolutely no idea what would be of interest to an advertiser or an advertising company
> 
> frankly its like explaining atomic sell division to a toddler
> 
> if you wind your neck back in and deflate your puffed chest and just read what i wrote logically and with understanding, you will see that it is all correct statements
> 
> but i guess that ship has sailed, rap has put down his marker and now he ‘has to be right’ - we’ve gone down this road before mate, the blackhole pf Rap’s “logic”
> 
> i frankly have no taste for it anymore - believe what you want / what does it matter to me


Okay so again if Picture in Picture Ads were so effective and coveted why aren't they the standard commercial for US sports period? The reality is you don't know what you're taking about because you're a South African and don't know what's currently going on with US TV. In the future you might be right (because clearly PiP is more beneficial) but PiP ads are not the norm for American sports. You should stick to what happens on South African cable, because you know fuck all about US cable


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Okay so again if Picture in Picture Ads were so effective and coveted why aren't they the standard commercial for US sports period? The reality is you don't know what you're taking about because you're a South African and don't know what's currently going on with US TV. In the future you might be right (because clearly PiP is more beneficial) but PiP ads are not the norm for American sports. You should stick to what happens on South African cable, because you know fuck all about US cable


i did not once say they were ‘effective’ or ‘coveted’ - i said they are an attempt to make live ads and dvr ads more relevant, which in turn will make those ratings that nobody cared about more relevant too for tv ad sales department (which you actually agree with - you state they are more beneficial)

which is what the article also said that you so readily dismissed as being from 2013 - but was actually from much later, after a 2 year study

this is not about US or South Africa or any country - this is about ad formats and advertising which is 100% universal


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Look at my original statement which got your panties in a twist

is there any lie there?



LifeInCattleClass said:


> For shits and giggles - dvr is why there is picture in picture so much
> 
> they’re trying to get the people to not forward
> 
> tv ad sales will have a metric for ad buyers of ‘our dvr ads gets watched x amount of minutes’


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i did not once say they were ‘effective’ or ‘coveted’ - i said they are an attempt to make live ads and dvr ads more relevant, which in turn will make those ratings that nobody cared about more relevant too for tv ad sales department (which you actually agree with - you state they are more beneficial)
> 
> which is what the article also said that you so readily dismissed as being from 2013 - but was actually from much later, after a 2 year study
> 
> this is not about US or South Africa or any country - this is about ad formats and advertising which is 100% universal





LifeInCattleClass said:


> Look at my original statement which got your panties in a twist
> 
> is there any lie there?


Except at this very moment they still are fucking irrelevant. You have no point DVR commercials aren't valued.


----------



## Not Lying

Mr316 said:


> AEW won’t get 1.3 million viewers as long as QT has a spot on the show and you have matches like Jack Evans and OC. It’s that simple. These segments hurt the overall quality of the show and…the viewership.


TK seems to think if a popular guy is wrestling he’s gona draw no matter who they’re wreslting



RapShepard said:


> Except at this very moment they still are fucking irrelevant. You have no point DVR commercials aren't valued.


You ended up reposting the same BS you reposted in the beginning despite being given different proofs of this being used where. Bottom line, this number bolds well foe the future, and it should be fucking discussed everytime this small company can get more people to watch it than the WWE. Ya’ll gona go mental when WWE actually starts losing.


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> TK seems to think if a popular guy is wrestling he’s gona draw no matter who they’re wreslting
> 
> 
> 
> You ended up reposting the same BS you reposted in the beginning despite being given different proofs of this being used where. Bottom line, this number bolds well foe the future, and it should be fucking discussed everytime this small company can get more people to watch it than the WWE. Ya’ll gona go mental when WWE actually starts losing.


Except they don't, AEW is doing great. But there's a reason you "AEW is the hottest thing in wrestling" folk are hiding behind "they're so new it's not fair to compare them to WWE".


----------



## Not Lying

RapShepard said:


> Except they don't, AEW is doing great. But there's a reason you "AEW is the hottest thing in wrestling" folk are hiding behind "they're so new it's not fair to compare them to WWE".


What does hottest even mean? 
Fastest growing? for sure it is


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> What does hottest even mean?
> Fastest growing? for sure it is


Dynamite is bronze medal behind SmackDown and Raw.

Dynamite is beating out NXT, but the real world shows NXT is super irrelevant and AEW as of now isn't relevant either (despite having a fun show)


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Except at this very moment they still are fucking irrelevant. You have no point DVR commercials aren't valued.


‘it is an attempt’ + ‘they’re trying to’

do you even read?


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ‘it is an attempt’ + ‘they’re trying to’
> 
> do you even read?


Answer me this, why aren't all sports ads since PiP is so beneficial and preferred.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Answer me this, why aren't all sports ads since PiP is so beneficial and preferred.


well fuck Rap - this is where you can actually say ‘you’re a south african, you don’t understand the US market’

i would have zero clue why its not on all sports / i don’t know the deals, the sponsorships, the rules or tons of other stuff to your particular niche market

but that is not what we‘re discussing - my point was specifically about PIP and what they are trying to do in relation to DVR

which is about advertising and formatting, *which is country agnostic*

who knows why NFL etc is lagging behind - you tell me, you live in the US. If there is clear benefit (which you also stated) why are major american sports being dumbfucks about it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

When espn shows an nfl game here - they do pip or splitscreen or banners all the time / as well as rugby and football 🤷‍♂️
no idea why they would not do the same in the US


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> well fuck Rap - this is where you can actually say ‘you’re a south african, you don’t understand the US market’
> 
> i would have zero clue why its not on all sports / i don’t know the deals, the sponsorships, the rules or tons of other stuff to your particular niche market
> 
> but that is not what we‘re discussing - my point was specifically about PIP and what they are trying to do in relation to DVR
> 
> which is about advertising and formatting, *which is country agnostic*
> 
> who knows why NFL etc is lagging behind - you tell me, you live in the US. If there is clear benefit (which you also stated) why are major american sports being dumbfucks about it.






LifeInCattleClass said:


> When espn shows an nfl game here - they do pip or splitscreen or banners all the time / as well as rugby and football
> no idea why they would not do the same in the US


Again your points, thoughts, and opinions mean fuck all because no PiP aren't heavily used things in the major sports in the US. Just shut up about it. DVR ads don't matter. You're not from the US you're talking out your ass


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Again your points, thoughts, and opinions mean fuck all because no PiP aren't heavily used things in the major sports in the US. *Just shut up about it.* DVR ads don't matter. *You're not from the US you're talking out your ass*


‘go back where you came from’

🤣

you’re willfully ignoring my points and deflecting

lol - why even HAVE dvr ratings if they mean nothing to nobody


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ‘go back where you came from’
> 
> [emoji1787]
> 
> you’re willfully ignoring my points and deflecting


No I'm not enjoying your point. I'm loudly saying "yeah wrestling may use PiP commercials be it WWE or AEW, but it's not a normal thing in major US sports" because it's not. It just isn't, you're just wrong here


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> No I'm not enjoying your point. I'm loudly saying "yeah wrestling may use PiP commercials be it WWE or AEW, but it's not a normal thing in major US sports" because it's not. It just isn't, you're just wrong here


but we’ve confirmed its in golf, nascar, news etc etc as per @Garty who lives there, right?


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> but we’ve confirmed its in golf, nascar, news etc etc as per @Garty who lives there, right?


No Garty is full of shit it's not a common thing yet


----------



## Erik.

Good number. 

Being #1 again is great news


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> No Garty is full of shit it's not a common thing yet


well, he lives there - maybe its just not in Ohio 🤷‍♂️

regardless - even if it was JUST AEW and WWE - it does not change a single thing i've said

'its an attempt to make live and DVR ads more valuable + they'll have a metric that shows this from their ad sales to try and convince advertisers'


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Is it?


yes


----------



## Garty

RapShepard said:


> Okay so again if Picture in Picture Ads were so effective and coveted why aren't they the standard commercial for US sports period? The reality is you don't know what you're taking about because you're a South African and don't know what's currently going on with US TV. In the future you might be right (because clearly PiP is more beneficial) but PiP ads are not the norm for American sports. You should stick to what happens on South African cable, because you know fuck all about US cable


Those programs that I mentioned are ones that don't have time-outs, with only set-time commercial spots. If you don't think the examples I've given are not "popular", that's on you. There's actually a few more I thought of... Rose Bowl Parade, Macy's Thanksgiving Parade, Tour de France, both the Boston and New York Marathon's. I've also seen curling even use PIP.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Number 1 again and over a million, good stuff. We like to dissect the figures and we always want more (quite rightly) but TNT is getting a hell of a lot of bang for their buck so you'd have to assume they're happy. The trajectory has been healthy over recent months too (since NXT left, crowds came back and the Friday death slot was overcome).

What we see a lot of in this thread - people using any perceived weak rating (whether it's actually weak or not) to justify their own personal narratives. Whether it's the 'too flippy' crowd, the 'bad booking' crowd, the 'Punk is not a draw' crowd and so on. It's ok to like what you like and dislike what you dislike without trying to bend any stat you can to support your preconceived ideas.

Edit - that's not to say there aren't improvements to be made, that's always the case. Hopefully AEW keep finding those right areas.


----------



## thorn123

I feel for all the people too reluctant or too stubborn or too loyal to WWE, for not giving AEW a fair go … it’s great pro wrestling and they are missing out on a good time. Who doesn’t like a good time.

It also annoys me as it prevents ratings being what they should be. The better the ratings, the bigger the investment, the more fun to be had.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Numbers actually consistent, which is good. Punk getting biggest gain of the night, and looks like Cage/Hobbs got a decent gain as well. Only a 69 (nice) thousand difference between the lowest quarter and highest quarter means people watching were hooked on the show.
> 
> 
> 
> With these quarters this week, I don't know. I disagree about moving the needle. Moving the needle is creating more buzz than the company gets and drawing more eyeballs to the product than the company typically gets. From the data we have, Punk hit these points. Heck AEW hasn't had a Dynamite quarter go below a million since his debut. Which right now is really too small of a sample size to say anything for sure (two weeks is nothing), but things at this time point more towards him benefiting the product numbers.
> 
> If in a few weeks AEW starts getting under a million again and is clearly back in their range of 800k-1M, then we can talk about how AEW botched the hype and fumbled it into nothing. For now though, there's not really anything to suggest that other than maybe the fact no quarter of Dynamite this week went over 1.1M.


*They're doing the same total viewership. We had 4 consecutive million plus episodes in a row before he even got here. If Roman Reigns went to RAW and ratings stayed the same in spite of his segments being the most viewed, you wouldn't call that moving the needle, so keep the same energy for Punk. Hell, he was headlining the highest grossing and most viewed SummerSlam of all time and you still find ways to discredit his impact on SmackDown. The Punk signing wasn't enough in and of itself to take AEW to the next level.*


----------



## Pentagon Senior

DaveRA said:


> I feel for all the people too reluctant or too stubborn or too loyal to WWE, for not giving AEW a fair go … it’s great pro wrestling and they are missing out on a good time. Who doesn’t like a good time.
> 
> It also annoys me as it prevents ratings being what they should be. The better the ratings, the bigger the investment, the more fun to be had.


I like a good time! 

The brand loyalty thing is funny isn't it. I was like it - in favour of WWE/F v WCW - in the late 90's. I couldn't get past the difference in production and the fact I'd always looked up to WWF (as it was then) and so never gave the competition a chance. Used to argue with my school friend til I was blue in the face lol. But yeh with hindsight I should've given it a chance and I missed out because of it.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Pentagon Senior said:


> I like a good time!
> 
> The brand loyalty thing is funny isn't it. I was like it - in favour of WWE/F v WCW - in the late 90's. I couldn't get past the difference in production and the fact I'd always looked up to WWF (as it was then) and so never gave the competition a chance. Used to argue with my school friend til I was blue in the face lol. But yeh with hindsight I should've given it a chance and I missed out because of it.


I was exactly the same. I couldn't get past the production when I was 14. Now when i watch it back as an adult I like the difference in production.


----------



## thorn123

Pentagon Senior said:


> I like a good time!
> 
> The brand loyalty thing is funny isn't it. I was like it - in favour of WWE/F v WCW - in the late 90's. I couldn't get past the difference in production and the fact I'd always looked up to WWF (as it was then) and so never gave the competition a chance. Used to argue with my school friend til I was blue in the face lol. But yeh with hindsight I should've given it a chance and I missed out because of it.


Yep I know right, and stay loyal to WWE if you want , heck I did for many years … but just open the mind and give AEW a fair go.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Pentagon Senior said:


> I like a good time!
> 
> The brand loyalty thing is funny isn't it. I was like it - in favour of WWE/F v WCW - in the late 90's. I couldn't get past the difference in production and the fact I'd always looked up to WWF (as it was then) and so never gave the competition a chance. Used to argue with my school friend til I was blue in the face lol. But yeh with hindsight I should've given it a chance and I missed out because of it.


*You really missed out because I almost never had to watch commercials due to switching between WCW and WWF. I enjoyed the NWO in one segment and DX in the next, the Cruiserweight division and The Brood, The Rock and DDP, and so on and so forth. *


----------



## Pentagon Senior

A PG Attitude said:


> I was exactly the same. I couldn't get past the production when I was 14. Now when i watch it back as an adult I like the difference in production.


Same - if anything the WWE production is a little on the glossy side for me now. I've come full circle lol (but I could get past that if it wasn't for several other factors) 



The Legit DMD said:


> *You really missed out because I almost never had to watch commercials due to switching between WCW and WWF. I enjoyed the NWO in one segment and DX in the next, the Cruiserweight division and The Brood, The Rock and DDP, and so on and so forth. *


Sounds awesome - whilst I was sat there stubbornly watching adverts 😅


----------



## GothicBohemian

About PIP:
How common it is really does depend on what you watch. If you follow European based sports leagues, some international sports and motor racing you'll be familiar with the concept no matter where you live. It just hasn't caught on yet in the North American markets. I expect it will start creeping in eventually in years to come, especially as more and more people people are watching media through non-traditional menas, making them harder for advertises to reach so tricks will be employed to make folks watch those ads.

Oh, and I'm well familiar with PIP. F1 is my second favourite sport. I know I'm completely out of sync with normal North American tastes. 



Garty said:


> Those programs that I mentioned are ones that *don't have time-outs, with only set-time commercial spots*. If you don't think the examples I've given are not "popular", that's on you. There's actually a few more I thought of... Rose Bowl Parade, Macy's Thanksgiving Parade, Tour de France, both the Boston and New York Marathon's. I've also seen curling even use PIP.


The highlighted is something fans of most traditional North American sports, aside from motor sports, don't take into the equation. There are no suitable ad break moments in certain events. Wrestling doesn't really have this issue - well, not if its formatted properly - and have adopted the practice for other reasons but having the action still onscreen during ad breaks makes perfect sense in racing of all sorts.



P.H. Hatecraft said:


> one of the first things I noticed watching Dynamite was the crowd. It was mostly a lake of dudes. Very few women, children, families and POC. They will never break out of their ceiling like that.


I'm watching and I'm a woman. Families go to WWE shows because that's been how their product is presented for years now and, Attitude Era aside, is how it pretty well always has been. People who are casual wrestling fans, or not even fans at all, take their kids to see folks like Cena and other kid-friendly acts. Other wrestling shows aren't even on their radar.

AEW does have talent that kids would love. Darby is around the top of that list. Kid me would have been obsessed with him. One other reason there aren't as many kids at AEW shows is that young males seem to be the majority in the audience. A lot of them probably don't have kids the right age to take to shows yet. Give it time. Now about women and AEW; a wrestling promotion that isn't well established isn't apt to bring in too many people who aren't serious fans and, let's be honest, more men are into wrestling in a hardcore way than women. Just look at this forum - how many women are posting here compared to men?



rich110991 said:


> So many haters in this thread 😂


And you will see more of that going forward. By bringing in more ex-WWE names that people recognise, AEW also attracts people who are more inclined to watch WWE programming than indie/overseas promotions. The lapsed WWE fans from other eras also start peeking in. Few of those people are going to see a show with smaller wrestlers, indie-style comedy and matches, guests they don't recognize (like NJPW legends and joshi names), no main stars, little storyline cohesion, a bunch of factions and a ton of indie talent and think that's appropriate. They want what they know and like, which is fair.

For my part, I'm going to complain about the women's division because it sucks and is treated like it sucks. Until they fix that, I'll be grumpy.

- - - - -

If all the ideas people are putting forward as ways to intice WWE fans to watch AEW were implemented, I'd be gone. I don't like the WWE product currently and I have no love for the Attitude Era. Mimicking either of those would change Dynamite into just another show I'd never watch. I like seeing indie names and crossovers with other promotions. I love that there are differnt things going on that aren't necessarily all related to one core storyline or a handful of specific wrestlers. I don't have a preference for ex-WWE talent over those from other places. I do not care how big a male wrestler is or how sexy a female one might be; I care if they can entertain me.

But ...

... I really, really, really wish AEW would stop putting people who aren't ready for television on their shows. More experienced folks who've honed their skills for years in different promotions from across the world, fewer Nightmare Factory recruits, bffs and children of former stars, please. I'm very put off by the growing prominence of old stars from a decade or more ago who just happen to have successful WWE runs in their history. That gives me old TNA vibes. It shows a lack of confidence in their non-WWE talent and a sign that the booking has a heavy dose of nostalgia as influence. Tony's enjoying using the guys he loved watching years ago as a young fan.

The AEW crowds pop for the Lucha Bros and anyone else who does high spots. That's the crowd watching and that's what they (and me) like. Sure, we'll (since I'm including me) also enjoy a good mat wrestling match too and can get very into more violence and blood than appears on current WWE shows but there's something al this has in common - AEW's original fans place a lot of value on what happens in the ring. Any switch of direction that puts promos and similar segments above the wrestling, or that elevates certain talent to permanent FOTC roles where every story has to revolve around them, is a turn off for this crowd. There are a lot of people in the AEW fandom who came looking for something different but it isn't the same different that WWE fans from decades ago are searching for. Based on who is involved in decision-making, I could picture AEW trying to appeal to both, which could (more likely would) prove disastrous.


----------



## thorn123

GothicBohemian said:


> About PIP:
> How common it is really does depend on what you watch. If you follow European based sports leagues, some international sports and motor racing you'll be familiar with the concept no matter where you live. It just hasn't caught on yet in the North American markets. I expect it will start creeping in eventually in years to come, especially as more and more people people are watching media through non-traditional menas, making them harder for advertises to reach so tricks will be employed to make folks watch those ads.
> 
> Oh, and I'm well familiar with PIP. F1 is my second favourite sport. I know I'm completely out of sync with normal North American tastes.
> 
> 
> 
> The highlighted is something fans of most traditional North American sports, aside from motor sports, don't take into the equation. There are no suitable ad break moments in certain events. Wrestling doesn't really have this issue - well, not if its formatted properly - and have adopted the practice for other reasons but having the action still onscreen during ad breaks makes perfect sense in racing of all sorts.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm watching and I'm a woman. Families go to WWE shows because that's been how their product is presented for years now and, Attitude Era aside, is how it pretty well always has been. People who are casual wrestling fans, or not even fans at all, take their kids to see folks like Cena and other kid-friendly acts. Other wrestling shows aren't even on their radar.
> 
> AEW does have talent that kids would love. Darby is around the top of that list. Kid me would have been obsessed with him. One other reason there aren't as many kids at AEW shows is that young males seem to be the majority in the audience. A lot of them probably don't have kids the right age to take to shows yet. Give it time. Now about women and AEW; a wrestling promotion that isn't well established isn't apt to bring in too many people who aren't serious fans and, let's be honest, more men are into wrestling in a hardcore way than women. Just look at this forum - how many women are posting here compared to men?
> 
> 
> 
> And you will see more of that going forward. By bringing in more ex-WWE names that people recognise, AEW also attracts people who are more inclined to watch WWE programming than indie/overseas promotions. The lapsed WWE fans from other eras also start peeking in. Few of those people are going to see a show with smaller wrestlers, indie-style comedy and matches, guests they don't recognize (like NJPW legends and joshi names), no main stars, little storyline cohesion, a bunch of factions and a ton of indie talent and think that's appropriate. They want what they know and like, which is fair.
> 
> For my part, I'm going to complain about the women's division because it sucks and is treated like it sucks. Until they fix that, I'll be grumpy.
> 
> - - - - -
> 
> If all the ideas people are putting forward as ways to intice WWE fans to watch AEW were implemented, I'd be gone. I don't like the WWE product currently and I have no love for the Attitude Era. Mimicking either of those would change Dynamite into just another show I'd never watch. I like seeing indie names and crossovers with other promotions. I love that there are differnt things going on that aren't necessarily all related to one core storyline or a handful of specific wrestlers. I don't have a preference for ex-WWE talent over those from other places. I do not care how big a male wrestler is or how sexy a female one might be; I care if they can entertain me.
> 
> But ...
> 
> ... I really, really, really wish AEW would stop putting people who aren't ready for television on their shows. More experienced folks who've honed their skills for years in different promotions from across the world, fewer Nightmare Factory recruits, bffs and children of former stars, please. I'm very put off by the growing prominence of old stars from a decade or more ago who just happen to have successful WWE runs in their history. That gives me old TNA vibes. It shows a lack of confidence in their non-WWE talent and a sign that the booking has a heavy dose of nostalgia as influence. Tony's enjoying using the guys he loved watching years ago as a young fan.
> 
> The AEW crowds pop for the Lucha Bros and anyone else who does high spots. That's the crowd watching and that's what they (and me) like. Sure, we'll (since I'm including me) also enjoy a good mat wrestling match too and can get very into more violence and blood than appears on current WWE shows but there's something al this has in common - AEW's original fans place a lot of value on what happens in the ring. Any switch of direction that puts promos and similar segments above the wrestling, or that elevates certain talent to permanent FOTC roles where every story has to revolve around them, is a turn off for this crowd. There are a lot of people in the AEW fandom who came looking for something different but it isn't the same different that WWE fans from decades ago are searching for. Based on who is involved in decision-making, I could picture AEW trying to appeal to both, which could (more likely would) prove disastrous.


Yep … if AEW try and become more mainstream - and by mainstream I mean more like WWE, current AEW fans are likely to become disenchanted


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DaveRA said:


> Yep … if AEW try and become more mainstream - and by mainstream I mean more like WWE, current AEW fans are likely to become disenchanted


said it 10x before - I'll happily live being the 2nd biggest and with a million or whatever viewers

as long as they keep their identity

going 'mainstream' means getting tons and tons of celebs, youtubers etc etc - and when Ninja does a fortnite dance in the ring in the main event is the day I switch off


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yes


Based on? It's not a financial success, ratings are about the same as what they were doing this time last year when not going against NXT despite millions more being spent to achieve higher ratings, social media is around the same, the homegrown stars are still kind of in the same spot they've always been or are lower, PPV buys are around the same.

Punk was touted as the saviour but it lasted 2 weeks. Now it's Bryan that is going to be the saviour...


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Based on? It's not a financial success, ratings are about the same as what they were doing this time last year when not going against NXT despite millions more being spent to achieve higher ratings, social media is around the same, the homegrown stars are still kind of in the same spot they've always been or are lower, PPV buys are around the same.
> 
> Punk was touted as the saviour but it lasted 2 weeks. Now it's Bryan that is going to be the saviour...


that olde faithful - ticket sales and merch

oh, ratings are great too

yes, they are the same as last year / they were great then too


or are we pretending now a show that sells out 5k - 10k arenas a week is not "successful" ? (sometimes twice)


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> well, he lives there - maybe its just not in Ohio 🤷‍♂️
> 
> regardless - even if it was JUST AEW and WWE - it does not change a single thing i've said
> 
> 'its an attempt to make live and DVR ads more valuable + they'll have a metric that shows this from their ad sales to try and convince advertisers'


Dude, Garty will say anything to defend AEW.

You know I’m as honest about this shit as they come, and I can honestly say that wrestling is the only time I have ever seen channels utilize the Picture-in-Picture aspect. Mainly because the “real” sports have built-in TV timeouts with change of possession in football or flat out “ok, TV timeout” in basketball that are mandatory.

The action stops, because no one wants to miss a LeBron James dunk or a Kevin Durant 3-pointer. Advertisers and TV execs simply don’t get wrestling, hence they allow Brodie and Cody to smash through a table during a fucking PIP that would have been great TV…for the wrestling audience.

It’s just how it is. Stop arguing what you don’t understand. It would be like me speaking on rugby in South Africa. Lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Dude, Garty will say anything to defend AEW.
> 
> You know I’m as honest about this shit as they come, and I can honestly say that wrestling is the only time I have ever seen channels utilize the Picture-in-Picture aspect. Mainly because the “real” sports have built-in TV timeouts with change of possession in football or flat out “ok, TV timeout” in basketball that are mandatory.
> 
> The action stops, because no one wants to miss a LeBron James dunk or a Kevin Durant 3-pointer. Advertisers and TV execs simply don’t get wrestling, hence they allow Brodie and Cody to smash through a table during a fucking PIP that would have been great TV…for the wrestling audience.
> 
> It’s just how it is. Stop arguing what you don’t understand. It would be like me speaking on rugby in South Africa. Lol


you are not following the conversation

the argument is not about 'is it in major sports' and the argument is not about AEW

maybe go back and read from the start


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> that olde faithful - ticket sales and merch
> 
> oh, ratings are great too
> 
> yes, they are the same as last year / they were great then too
> 
> 
> or are we pretending now a show that sells out 5k - 10k arenas a week is not "successful" ? (sometimes twice)


How are ratings great? On September 9th, 2020 NXT wasn't on for the week and AEW managed a rating of 1.0 million people.

September 1st, 2021 AEW manages a rating of 1.0 million people. 31,000 people is the only difference between September 2020 and September 2021.

In that time they've signed the following recognisable wrestlers:

Andrade, Big Show, Christian Cage, CM Punk, Karl Anderson, Luke Gallows, Malakai Black, Mark Henry, Miro, Pac (Returned not signed), Sting

Tens of millions of dollars to achieve just 31,000 more people from this time last year. Let that sink in.

I will admit they do absolutely kill on merchandise and tickets but lets not lie to one another and pretend that the TV ratings are great.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> How are ratings great? On September 9th, 2020 NXT wasn't on for the week and AEW managed a rating of 1.0 million people.
> 
> September 1st, 2021 AEW manages a rating of 1.0 million people. 31,000 people is the only difference between September 2020 and September 2021.
> 
> In that time they've signed the following recognisable wrestlers:
> 
> Andrade, Big Show, Christian Cage, CM Punk, Karl Anderson, Luke Gallows, Malakai Black, Mark Henry, Miro, Pac (Returned not signed), Sting
> 
> Tens of millions of dollars to achieve just 31,000 more people from this time last year. Let that sink in.
> 
> I will admit they do absolutely kill on merchandise and tickets but lets not lie to one another and pretend that the TV ratings are great.


how is it not great?

its always top 5 on the night and many times number 1

thats great

besides - the chat was not about ratings but are they a success

which they are


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

They are also selling out an extra arena every week for rampage


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> how is it not great?
> 
> its always top 5 on the night and many times number 1
> 
> thats great
> 
> besides - the chat was not about ratings but are they a success
> 
> which they are


Might be top 5 but it's not growing and the only way they can generate excitement is by paying millions of dollars for another ex WWE superstar...and we're almost out of those


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you are not following the conversation
> 
> the argument is not about 'is it in major sports' and the argument is not about AEW
> 
> maybe go back and read from the start


Nah. I’m not going to sift through the back and forth childish shit. Lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Might be top 5 but it's not growing and the only way they can generate excitement is by paying millions of dollars for another ex WWE superstar...and we're almost out of those


The chat is ‘are they a success’

the last ex wwe guy paid for himself in one weekend

i struggle to think how anybody can look at AEW and go ‘yeah…. Not successful’


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Nah. I’m not going to sift through the back and forth childish shit. Lol


great, then keep your 2c to yourself


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> The chat is ‘are they a success’
> 
> the last ex wwe guy paid for himself in one weekend
> 
> i struggle to think how anybody can look at AEW and go ‘yeah…. Not successful’


They might sell a whole heap of tickets and merchandise but last year they did not turn a profit. Might change this year with crowds being back but right now they are not a successful business.

I also highly doubt that Punk paid for himself in one weekend. If he did then Punk is the worst businessman of all time because he probably should've asked for triple.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> They might sell a whole heap of tickets and merchandise but last year they did not turn a profit. Might change this year with crowds being back but right now they are not a successful business.
> 
> I also highly doubt that Punk paid for himself in one weekend. If he did then Punk is the worst businessman of all time because he probably should've asked for triple.


they are not supposed to turn a profit

they are supposed to do what they’re doing - reinvest their earnings

does not make them a failure - quite the opposite


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The Legit DMD said:


> *They're doing the same total viewership. We had 4 consecutive million plus episodes in a row before he even got here. If Roman Reigns went to RAW and ratings stayed the same in spite of his segments being the most viewed, you wouldn't call that moving the needle, so keep the same energy for Punk. Hell, he was headlining the highest grossing and most viewed SummerSlam of all time and you still find ways to discredit his impact on SmackDown. The Punk signing wasn't enough in and of itself to take AEW to the next level.*


Difference is Roman isn’t actually increasing viewership in the grand scheme of things, and there’s a year‘s worth of evidence to show this (and actually there’s about 6 years). Summerslam was a financial success, but that has virtually nothing to do with Roman or anyone individually (except maybe you could argue Cena).

Again, I said that there’s still not enough data to say for sure, but with everything we have so far (which I’ll say for a third time in case you miss it again, is very limited), Punk is actually having an impact. They did a few million viewership episodes without that Challenge show which (apparently) takes a bit of viewership. Those shows were special episodes, some of which that had a quarter or more fall below a million. Now with Punk, even with that they’re pulling that viewership in, and still had their third highest episode last week.

It’s not a matter of “keeping the same energy” it’s working with the data we have. If AEW was down year over year or Punk was only keeping pace with the 800-1.1M range they generally get, then I’d agree with you. Maybe I will in a few weeks. Check back with me then.


----------



## The_Great_One21

It’s pretty fucking simple. Put on a better product and get better ratings. I’m a fan of AEW, but not a mega fan. I think it’s good enough to watch but it’s not must see.

It felt like it was heading that way with Hangman/Omega, Malakai Black, Punk and Bryan on the way… but the shows just feel a bit meh

I still say Rampage is too early. They should have focused on making Dynamite bigger before adding a second show.

Aside from that, I want to see more Miro, Hangman, Punk, Cody, Malakai Black, Andrade, Pac, Sammy, Darby, Moxley etc… stars or potential stars. Make it feel big time. Instead I spend half my time watching this show seeing bloody jobbers. This week I’m watching segments involving the likes of Jack Evans, Matt Hardy, QT Marshall, The Big Show and Billy fucking Gunn. STOP IT !! Also, and I have thought this for a while… let stuff impact before moving right along, as soon as one segment ends its literally straight to the next no time to really absorb it.

They have so many stars that every segment could be unreal. Half the show is great, but the the other half isn’t. And it feels like that almost every week.


----------



## ClintDagger

The Legit DMD said:


> *They're doing the same total viewership. We had 4 consecutive million plus episodes in a row before he even got here. If Roman Reigns went to RAW and ratings stayed the same in spite of his segments being the most viewed, you wouldn't call that moving the needle, so keep the same energy for Punk. Hell, he was headlining the highest grossing and most viewed SummerSlam of all time and you still find ways to discredit his impact on SmackDown. The Punk signing wasn't enough in and of itself to take AEW to the next level.*


Yeah, I can’t imagine these are the numbers they were hoping for given what they are paying Punk. He’s essentially making little to no difference from a tv perspective so far. It reminds me of what Fox is paying WWE. You pay big bucks hoping for big return. When you don’t get it the buyer’s remorse is evident. Maybe he will have a huge impact on PPV buys so it’s too early to call this a failure but they aren’t off to a great start. We shall see.


----------



## Garty

bdon said:


> Dude, Garty will say anything to defend AEW.
> 
> You know I’m as honest about this shit as they come, and I can honestly say that wrestling is the only time I have ever seen channels utilize the Picture-in-Picture aspect. Mainly because the “real” sports have built-in TV timeouts with change of possession in football or flat out “ok, TV timeout” in basketball that are mandatory.
> 
> The action stops, because no one wants to miss a LeBron James dunk or a Kevin Durant 3-pointer. Advertisers and TV execs simply don’t get wrestling, hence they allow Brodie and Cody to smash through a table during a fucking PIP that would have been great TV…for the wrestling audience.
> 
> It’s just how it is. Stop arguing what you don’t understand. It would be like me speaking on rugby in South Africa. Lol


My man, I'm not an AEW super-fan, a loyalist, or a defender. I am a wrestling fan and AEW gives me wrestling that I find appealing. Again, as I say now EVERY time... my opinions of AEW are neither right, nor wrong. Just as yours aren't either. My "problem" was always being told that my opinion was wrong. For example, I think Cody is great in-ring, but the whole "drama" that seems to always be surrounding him can be annoying, yes of course. You hate Cody with every fiber of your being, full-stop. That's it. What else is there to argue?

As for the topic of discussion... the examples I gave were for ANY sport or TV broadcast that uses PIP. Life was looking for other examples other than wrestling (AEW or WWE), via Rap's request, so I gave him the examples of what I've seen using PIP. Like I said above... That's it. What else is there to argue?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> they are not supposed to turn a profit
> 
> they are supposed to do what they’re doing - reinvest their earnings
> 
> does not make them a failure - quite the opposite


So now we get into business not to make money? Come on Cattle...

The aim of any business is to turn a profit. The reinvesting of earnings hasn't done anything for them which I've shown above with the TV ratings, they've had almost 2 years at this point to figure things out and they are no better off than they were on day one ratings wise.



ClintDagger said:


> Yeah, I can’t imagine these are the numbers they were hoping for given what they are paying Punk. He’s essentially making little to no difference from a tv perspective so far. It reminds me of what Fox is paying WWE. You pay big bucks hoping for big return. When you don’t get it the buyer’s remorse is evident. Maybe he will have a huge impact on PPV buys so it’s too early to call this a failure but they aren’t off to a great start. We shall see.


I'd say Punk will give them a boost for 2-3 PPV's (Depending how many matches they give away for free on TV) but that'll be it.

I love Punk but he's being used terribly to the point that I don't even care. Been a fan of the guy for almost 20 years (Since the tail end of his ROH run) and I'd say this is probably his worst run ever so far. Darby Allin and then we have a feud between Daniel Garcia and 2.0 to look forward to.

Yeah, no thanks.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

ClintDagger said:


> Yeah, I can’t imagine these are the numbers they were hoping for given what they are paying Punk. He’s essentially making little to no difference from a tv perspective so far. It reminds me of what Fox is paying WWE. You pay big bucks hoping for big return. When you don’t get it the buyer’s remorse is evident. Maybe he will have a huge impact on PPV buys so it’s too early to call this a failure but they aren’t off to a great start. We shall see.


*I think FOX is happy with SmackDown because it's the best wrestling show on television and consistently does 2 mil or more, but I agree with everything else you said.*


----------



## bdon

Garty said:


> My man, I'm not an AEW super-fan, a loyalist, or a defender. I am a wrestling fan and AEW gives me wrestling that I find appealing. Again, as I say now EVERY time... my opinions of AEW are neither right, nor wrong. Just as yours aren't either. My "problem" was always being told that my opinion was wrong. For example, I think Cody is great in-ring, but the whole "drama" that seems to always be surrounding him can be annoying, yes of course. You hate Cody with every fiber of your being, full-stop. That's it. What else is there to argue?
> 
> As for the topic of discussion... the examples I gave were for ANY sport or TV broadcast that uses PIP. Life was looking for other examples other than wrestling (AEW or WWE), via Rap's request, so I gave him the examples of what I've seen using PIP. Like I said above... That's it. What else is there to argue?


I figured they were still arguing that the 3 major American sports were utilizing PIP, because they have been on this same subject since yesterday. So, I have no clue which shows you gave as an example. Do gold and NASCAR use PIP? Possibly, I wouldn’t know, because they are each a very niche sport with not a ton of viewers.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> So now we get into business not to make money? Come on Cattle...
> 
> The aim of any business is to turn a profit. The reinvesting of earnings hasn't done anything for them which I've shown above with the TV ratings, they've had almost 2 years at this point to figure things out and they are no better off than they were on day one ratings wise.


mate, i’m not gonna argue with you how to run businesses - you’ll have to give me your credentials for that, otherwise we might just end up talking about stuff you don’t understand

in short - they are making money - that is what re-investing your earnings mean / they earn a profit - reinvest it in new contracts, games r&d, guarantees for stadiums most likely, advertising etc etc

which in turn puts your overall business again in a *minus because you don’t want to pay tax on your profit - you can keep this cycle going for years - read up on how long it took amazon to ‘turn a profit’

unless you somehow suggest they are running each arena at a loss? 🙈

not turning a profit is business 101, especially if you had a cool 100m start-up investment

in fact, i would guess they won’t show a profit in 10 years / or a very minimal one


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> So now we get into business not to make money? Come on Cattle...
> 
> The aim of any business is to turn a profit. The reinvesting of earnings hasn't done anything for them which I've shown above with the TV ratings, they've had almost 2 years at this point to figure things out and they are no better off than they were on day one ratings wise.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd say Punk will give them a boost for 2-3 PPV's (Depending how many matches they give away for free on TV) but that'll be it.
> 
> I love Punk but he's being used terribly to the point that I don't even care. Been a fan of the guy for almost 20 years (Since the tail end of his ROH run) and I'd say this is probably his worst run ever so far. Darby Allin and then we have a feud between Daniel Garcia and 2.0 to look forward to.
> 
> Yeah, no thanks.


Your argument doesn’t hold water business-wise until the 5 year mark. Every business plans to lose money the first 5 years, and they do so in an effort to make it something sustainable.

Any financial discussions need to be staved off for another 2 years by my count, but I tend to believe you’ll be proven right on this, just that it doesn’t make sense to gloat now.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> I figured they were still arguing that the 3 major American sports were utilizing PIP, because they have been on this same subject since yesterday. So, I have no clue which shows you gave as an example. Do gold and NASCAR use PIP? Possibly, I wouldn’t know, because they are each a very niche sport with not a ton of viewers.


nope, both legit, rap and garty said its not on major sports - i accepted that

was never really the point of the ‘argument’


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> Your argument doesn’t hold water business-wise until the 5 year mark. Every business plans to lose money the first 5 years, and they do so in an effort to make it something sustainable.
> 
> Any financial discussions need to be staved off for another 2 years by my count, but I tend to believe you’ll be proven right on this, just that it doesn’t make sense to gloat now.


I have no idea why they would take their profits and put it into other aspects of the business when this range is likely the highest they will ever get.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> I have no idea why they would take their profits and put it into other aspects of the business when this range is likely the highest they will ever get.


with this assumption you are basically saying

‘they are making a game for all platforms and it will sell 0 copies globally’

you re-invest to grow, to diversify and to pay less taxes


----------



## 3venflow

Not sure if the right thread, but Punk's PWTees t-shirt sales are closing in on 100,000 units sold with buyers coming from as far as Malta, the UAE and Malaysia. I'm unsure how the profits are split but that is $2.5m worth of t-shirt sales already. 😱 

The previous best seller, the famous Bullet Club t-shirt, sold 35,000... *over seven years*.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Not sure if the right thread, but Punk's PWTees t-shirt sales are closing in on 100,000 units sold with buyers coming from as far as Malta, the UAE and Malaysia. I'm unsure how the profits are split but that is $2.5m worth of t-shirt sales already. 😱
> 
> The previous best seller, the famous Bullet Club t-shirt, sold 35,000... *over seven years*.


yep, this is the right thread and very timely


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

LifeInCattleClass said:


> they are not supposed to turn a profit
> 
> they are supposed to do what they’re doing - reinvest their earnings
> 
> does not make them a failure - quite the opposite



When running a business earnings is income above expenditure. If you have no income over expenditure you can't grow and if you have less income than expenditure you have to put new money in. The goal is to never have to put more of YOUR money into the business.


----------



## Not Lying

Not a draw my ass😂😂
CM GOAT


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *I think FOX is happy with SmackDown because it's the best wrestling show on television and consistently does 2 mil or more, but I agree with everything else you said.*


Nah, Dynamite is the better wrestling show on TV. 

I would’ve said NXT too last month, but they’re going to ruin that show now.


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> They are also selling out an extra arena every week for rampage


Thought this was just for special weeks? Usually they pretape this on the Wednesday I thought?


----------



## Garty

fabi1982 said:


> Thought this was just for special weeks? Usually they pretape this on the Wednesday I thought?


Yeah, it's a live 3-day (over 5 days) event.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

MonkasaurusRex said:


> When running a business earnings is income above expenditure. If you have no income over expenditure you can't grow and if you have less income than expenditure you have to put new money in. The goal is to never have to put more of YOUR money into the business.


yes

some of the expenditure is paying back your original loan though, salaries and diversifying - which can be played a 1000 different ways

i don’t think we’ll be hearing very soon that TK is investing another 100m over and above his original and fully from his own pocket not earned through dividends


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Thought this was just for special weeks? Usually they pretape this on the Wednesday I thought?


half and half - they sometimes will run its on its own and sometimes pretape

so far from the 4, including tonight - 1 was pretaped, 3 was live

the live ones are an extra 6k + 15k + 6k tix they sold

we’ll see how they keep it up / there has been a couple of live ones announced into the next 2 months i think


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> Not a draw my ass😂😂
> CM GOAT


*I got told merch sales don't matter for 7 years when it came to Roman Reigns' drawing power, so I find it amusing is that the same type of fans who said this are celebrating right now. The bar is constantly lowered for AEW and raised for WWE.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

When you think about it

dynamite + rampage = avg of 6k tix per gate

raw + smackdown = avg 7k tix per gate

aew is almost as big as wwe on live attendance


----------



## 3venflow

Do the Bucks read WF? 🤔


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Do the Bucks read WF? 🤔
> 
> View attachment 107532


yes… i can reveal - all this time @Firefromthegods is Matt Buck and @Klitschko is Nick

it is why he has a Dave Meltzer avi


----------



## Not Lying

The Legit DMD said:


> *I got told merch sales don't matter for 7 years when it came to Roman Reigns' drawing power, so I find it amusing is that the same type of fans who said this are celebrating right now. *


Of course they matter, it’s a big indicator, Becky, Bray, they were all discussed and praised for becoming top merch sellers. Why?

1- When you are positioned as FOTC, you SHOULD be the top merch seller, That wasn’t the case at all here, for Becky or Bray.

2- Roman was #2-#3 in Merch in 2015-2017 despite Cena being mostly gone and even New Day overtook him for a bit.

Edit:
Saw your Edit. Yes. For WWE the bar is higher and lower for AEW. That’s not supposed to be shocking. I don’t expect the same from a start-up than I do from a billion dollar company that’s been doinng this for 50 years.


----------



## Not Lying

LifeInCattleClass said:


> When you think about it
> 
> dynamite + rampage = avg of 6k tix per gate
> 
> raw + smackdown = avg 7k tix per gate
> 
> aew is almost as big as wwe on live attendance


Because the gap in the DEMO and PEOPLE THAT PAY is not as big as the gap between the boomers that sit at
home and watch out of habit.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> Of course they matter, it’s a big indicator, Becky, Bray, they were all discussed and praised for becoming top merch sellers. Why?
> 
> 1- When you are positioned as FOTC, you SHOULD be the top merch seller, That wasn’t the case at all here, for Becky or Bray.


*So what do you have to say about Britt Baker out selling Kenny Omega? Is that not embarrassing?*



> 2- Roman was #2-#3 in Merch in 2015-2017 despite Cena being mostly gone and even New Day overtook him for a bit.


*And when he was number one far longer than they were, I was told it's because he's forced into that position, as if Vince threatened people to buy shirts at gunpoint. It was a pathetic circular argument.*


----------



## Erik.

3venflow said:


> Do the Bucks read WF? 🤔
> 
> View attachment 107532


You're getting worked up over trolling heels Twitter? 

Come on. You're not that stupid, are you?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The Definition of Technician said:


> Of course they matter, it’s a big indicator, Becky, Bray, they were all discussed and praised for becoming top merch sellers. Why?
> 
> 1- When you are positioned as FOTC, you SHOULD be the top merch seller, That wasn’t the case at all here, for Becky or Bray.
> 
> 2- Roman was #2-#3 in Merch in 2015-2017 despite Cena being mostly gone and even New Day overtook him for a bit.
> 
> Edit:
> Saw your Edit. Yes. For WWE the bar is higher and lower for AEW. That’s not supposed to be shocking. I don’t expect the same from a start-up than I do from a billion dollar company that’s been doinng this for 50 years.


This^.

Although personally I don’t really value merch sales on their own. If other things for a wrestler match up, it’s a good supplementary metric.


----------



## Not Lying

The Legit DMD said:


> *So what do you have to say about Britt Baker out selling Kenny Omega? Is that not embarrassing?
> 
> 
> And when he was number one far longer than they were, I was told it's because he's forced into that position, as if Vince threatened people to buy shirts at gunpoint. It was a pathetic circular argument.*


DMD is selling more T-shirts than Omega? Source?
That’s cool. Another dager to Omega fans 🤷‍♂️
Yes. Omega is underwhelming. I don’t think he’s as good as people make him out to be. For so much hype, for a 8month+ reign, I still haven’t seen anything that warrants it. Moxley justified his position. 
Darby and DMD becoming just as big or bigger than Kenny without the hype and world title, is impressive for them, embarrassing for him. 

I don’t know what people were telling you exactly or what you’re mad about. Roman has been FOTC for almost 6 years now. It took 3 years after Cena became part-timer for Roman to finally be the #1 merch seller (decline of wrestling popularity? Roman not popular enough?).
When you are FOTC, WWE markets your product, they have more of them at live events. That’s as far as « forcing » goes. No gun is needed.

This is from Konan 



> When CM Punk was red hot and started to outsell the John Cena merchandise, I know people that work in the company in the merchandise department, I know people that work the arenas and sell the merchandise, and I can tell you eactly what WWE did: as soon as John Cena started getting outsold by CM Punk, they made 3 additional John Cena designs, they refused to make a second CM Punk design and they started undershipping the CM Punk design on purpose. For every CM Punk shirt they would ship to the arena, they would triple John Cena shirts and they would do 3 John Cena designs. So every 10 shirts in the arena, if 9 are Cena, only one is Punk. Punk is going to sell out right away ause they didn't send enough and at the end of the night they're going "Oh John Cena quadrupled Punk's merchandise." Of course he did! Because you've puprosely created a situation where it would be impossible for CM Punk to outsell John Cena.
> 
> We've told the story on the show before, years ago at Wrestlemania when WWE was struggling. It's Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart in the main event going 60 minutes, people are leaving during the main event, you can check the video tape. People are leaving during the main event of Wrestlemania, and Hall and Nash have both told me that Vince said that night that he would rather have a half full arena cheering for the guy that he says to cheer for than a full arena cheering for whoever they want.


----------



## 3venflow

Erik. said:


> You're getting worked up over trolling heels Twitter?
> 
> Come on. You're not that stupid, are you?


Worked up? Not at all. More intrigued. I'm one of the minority who quite like the Bucks on here and don't think they kill the ratings. But they're definitely conscious of what people say about them and WF is one of the most anti-Bucks places I've seen online.


----------



## DammitChrist

I’ll never get why some fans of the current Universal Champion remain bitter after all these years of his obnoxious push.



Erik. said:


> You're getting worked up over trolling heels Twitter?
> 
> Come on. You're not that stupid, are you?


Nah, he’s mocking those who get upset over the Young Bucks having 15+ minute matches on TV. 

Their Twitter bio is extremely satisfying to see considering how us folks are repeatedly told that they “kill” the ratings each week. 

Kudos to them for having a really good week with the ratings


----------



## DammitChrist

The Definition of Technician said:


> DMD is selling more T-shirts than Omega? Source?
> That’s cool. Another dager to Omega fans 🤷‍♂️
> Yes. Omega is underwhelming. I don’t think he’s as good as people make him out to be. For so much hype, for a 8month+ reign, I still haven’t seen anything that warrants it. Moxley justified his position.
> Darby and DMD becoming just as big or bigger than Kenny without the hype and world title, is impressive for them, embarrassing for him.
> 
> I don’t know what people were telling you exactly or what you’re mad about. Roman has been FOTC for almost 6 years now. It took 3 years after Cena became part-timer for Roman to finally be the #1 merch seller (decline of wrestling popularity? Roman not popular enough?).
> When you are FOTC, WWE markets your product, they have more of them at live events. That’s as far as « forcing » goes. No gun is needed.
> 
> This is from Konan



They’re popular names, but they’re not “bigger” stars than Kenny Omega. 

Seriously, the top most anticipated matches/feuds for CM Punk and Daniel Bryan are against Kenny Omega among many wrestling fans. 

Kenny Omega and his fans have no reason to be disappointed when he'll likely steal the show at All Out in his match against Christian Cage. He’s also had a really fun world title reign where he is practically helping carry the wrestling industry on his back with his consistent output of good matches this year in various wrestling promotions. 

Hell, his match against Pac and Orange Cassidy at Double or Nothing alone is arguably one of the best AEW matches so far this year. I know that it’s my personal #1 MOTY from AEW. He’s been anything but “underwhelming” on his part.

I’m sure that this tune will change within the next couple of months when his hot feud with Adam Page continues, and he delivers a few more bangers.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> DMD is selling more T-shirts than Omega? Source?
> That’s cool. Another dager to Omega fans 🤷‍♂️
> Yes. Omega is underwhelming. I don’t think he’s as good as people make him out to be. For so much hype, for a 8month+ reign, I still haven’t seen anything that warrants it. Moxley justified his position.
> Darby and DMD becoming just as big or bigger than Kenny without the hype and world title, is impressive for them, embarrassing for him.


*I had on site media and fans at the venue join my Twitter Space the day Punk debuted on Rampage. That's where I got a lot of the notes I was sharing. One person said Britt Baker was the number one seller on PWTees before Punk crashed the website. He ran away with it after that. To prevent sell outs of the shirt at the venue, they had people making them from scratch. Fans were there until 3:00 a.m. eating ice cream and buying merch.*



> I don’t know what people were telling you exactly or what you’re mad about. Roman has been FOTC for almost 6 years now. It took 3 years after Cena became part-timer for Roman to finally be the #1 merch seller (decline of wrestling popularity? Roman not popular enough?).
> When you are FOTC, WWE markets your product, they have more of them at live events. That’s as far as « forcing » goes. No gun is needed.
> 
> This is from Konan


*You literally just contradicted yourself by acknowledging that Cena had more merchandise printed to stay on top, (Punk himself confirmed that as well) yet at the same time criticize Roman for taking a while to take his spot. I went to a lot of events after The Shield broke up and verified myself that Roman didn't have an absurd amount of merch compared to everyone else when he was the guy they started focusing on. Notice you've never heard anyone with credibility say that since 2014.*


----------



## rbl85

So because 1 person said Baker was the top seller you believe it ?

Not saying that she isn't but 1 person is not a credible source XD


----------



## Chip Chipperson

3venflow said:


> Do the Bucks read WF? 🤔
> 
> View attachment 107532


True story, don't remember the complete context but I think @bdon was involved.

Bdon (Or whoever it was) got upset over something and sarcastically said something along the lines of "What are they going to do next? Have a teddy bear shoot lasers from its eyes?" 

I shit you not, the very next episode of BTE we had a teddy bear shooting lasers from its eyes the exact same way it was described on this forum.

So someone reads here, not sure if it's the Bucks themselves but definitely someone.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> True story, don't remember the complete context but I think @bdon was involved.
> 
> Bdon (Or whoever it was) got upset over something and sarcastically said something along the lines of "What are they going to do next? Have a teddy bear shoot lasers from its eyes?"
> 
> I shit you not, the very next episode of BTE we had a teddy bear shooting lasers from its eyes the exact same way it was described on this forum.
> 
> So someone reads here, not sure if it's the Bucks themselves but definitely someone.


most likely Cutler 

lets have a guess which user is most likely to be a Buck or a Cutler


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> most likely Cutler
> 
> lets have a guess which user is most likely to be a Buck or a Cutler


I reckon being one of the biggest forums for wrestling here they probably at the time were reading her for fan response and feedback but probably not actively posting.

Cutler, if you're out there make a reference to Chippah next BTE so we know you're there.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Chip Chipperson said:


> True story, don't remember the complete context but I think @bdon was involved.
> 
> Bdon (Or whoever it was) got upset over something and sarcastically said something along the lines of "What are they going to do next? Have a teddy bear shoot lasers from its eyes?"
> 
> I shit you not, the very next episode of BTE we had a teddy bear shooting lasers from its eyes the exact same way it was described on this forum.
> 
> So someone reads here, not sure if it's the Bucks themselves but definitely someone.


*Good to know. I'll address them directly next week after Britt outdraws them again.*


----------



## zkorejo

I'm pretty sure most wrestlers only read reddit now. 

I'm sure this forum was popular among them during the TNA time. I remember Steiner saying "they go online to read reviews from fans" in one of his MEM promo.


----------



## 3venflow

Seems like an important acquisition. Overseas deals kept Impact afloat for a while.

-

All Elite Wrestling has hired Shane Emerson for the position of Head of Global Programming and Partnerships. Emerson started with the company this week.

In that role, Emerson will be spearheading the company's international expansion on all fronts, including licensing, partnerships and strategies. 

Emerson held a similar role for Impact Wrestling from 2011 to 2017 and in recent years had been with Ramsey Solutions, a financial counseling company.

Emerson was very well liked during his time with Impact as someone who got a lot of international business done.






AEW MAKES BIG HIRE FOR INTERNATIONAL EXPANSION | PWInsider.com







www.pwinsider.com


----------



## 3venflow

God knows how (well, combos play some part), but it looks like Rampage has sold more tickets than Dynamite at the NOW Center.

Dynamite final count was 5,884.

Rampage was at 5,994 as of this morning. It'll probably have Elevation taped before it with some decent matches, but that's still a lot for a show without any big matches.

Data from Wrestle Tix.

From the WON:

October 15, an episode of AEW Rampage at the Knight Center in Miami, has sold 918 tickets so far. October 16, Dynamite, sold 1,215.

October 23 in Orlando sold 3,396 so far.

November 17 in Norfolk sold 3,214 tickets in its first day.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> God knows how (well, combos play some part), but it looks like Rampage has sold more tickets than Dynamite at the NOW Center.
> 
> Dynamite final count was 5,884.
> 
> Rampage was at 5,994 as of this morning. It'll probably have Elevation taped before it with some decent matches, but that's still a lot for a show without any big matches.
> 
> Data from Wrestle Tix.
> 
> From the WON:
> 
> October 15, an episode of AEW Rampage at the Knight Center in Miami, has sold 918 tickets so far. October 16, Dynamite, sold 1,215.
> 
> October 23 in Orlando sold 3,396 so far.
> 
> November 17 in Norfolk sold 3,214 tickets in its first day.


its a great friday out for the Demo

catch dinner, beers and a friday night show

party atmosphere

wed nights the next day is school for their kids


----------



## zkorejo

No love from Miami. 1000 tickets is like Jacksonville during Covid era.


----------



## DammitChrist

zkorejo said:


> No love from Miami. 1000 tickets is like Jacksonville during Covid era.


Hey, are you referring to the Miami events in mid-October?


----------



## zkorejo

DammitChrist said:


> Hey, are you referring to the Miami events in mid-October?


Yeah, everything else is like over 3000 already. Even November shows. Miami is no selling AEW.


----------



## omaroo

Dont get why they keep coming back to florida again so soon. 

Tickets will be very low it seems for the miami shows.


----------



## DaSlacker

LifeInCattleClass said:


> mate, i’m not gonna argue with you how to run businesses - you’ll have to give me your credentials for that, otherwise we might just end up talking about stuff you don’t understand
> 
> in short - they are making money - that is what re-investing your earnings mean / they earn a profit - reinvest it in new contracts, games r&d, guarantees for stadiums most likely, advertising etc etc
> 
> which in turn puts your overall business again in a *minus because you don’t want to pay tax on your profit - you can keep this cycle going for years - read up on how long it took amazon to ‘turn a profit’
> 
> unless you somehow suggest they are running each arena at a loss? 🙈
> 
> not turning a profit is business 101, especially if you had a cool 100m start-up investment
> 
> in fact, i would guess they won’t show a profit in 10 years / or a very minimal one


Yep. Creative accounting. 

It's also about creating a brand and franchise that can double or triple or even quadruple those rights fees. Spinoff shows, social media presence, holding a strong demo, licensing deals, game deals, toy deals. It all factors in to a long term project. Spending millions on recognisable faces likes Punk, Danielson, Rotunda, Wight. It can only help in terms of brand development. 

The trick is balancing that with keeping your fresher faces like Hangman, MJF and Darby both happy and not a risk of becoming an afterthought.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DaSlacker said:


> Yep. Creative accounting.
> 
> It's also about creating a brand and franchise that can double or triple or even quadruple those rights fees. Spinoff shows, social media presence, holding a strong demo, licensing deals, game deals, toy deals. It all factors in to a long term project. Spending millions on recognisable faces likes Punk, Danielson, Rotunda, Wight. It can only help in terms of brand development.
> 
> The trick is balancing that with keeping your fresher faces like Hangman, MJF and Darby both happy and not a risk of becoming an afterthought.


all of this

diversifying into different revenue streams is super important - in fact, wwe are the kings of diversifying

there is not a product on this earth or avenue they have not slapped some logos on and superstar faces

that is how you grow a global business


----------



## DammitChrist

zkorejo said:


> Yeah, everything else is like over 3000 already. Even November shows. Miami is no selling AEW.


Okay, I'm just making sure because I'm actually considering to attend 1 of those Miami events later next month.

I just can't decide whether to get tickets for the Rampage episode on October 15th at Friday night, or the Dynamite episode on October 16th at a Saturday evening, AND when I should make my final decision.

Those 2 shows are probably the only AEW shows coming up nearby here.

Can some of you folks help recommend me with which show in October will be better to attend? 

I'm eager to go because CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, and Adam Cole would have already made their debuts (over) a month into their runs by then 

Plus, Kenny Omega and possibly Britt Baker will likely still be world champions by that point!


----------



## zkorejo

DammitChrist said:


> Okay, I'm just making sure because I'm actually considering to attend 1 of those Miami events later next month.
> 
> I just can't decide whether to get tickets for the Rampage episode on October 15th at Friday night, or the Dynamite episode on October 16th at a Saturday evening, AND when I should make my final decision.
> 
> Those 2 shows are probably the only AEW shows coming up nearby here.
> 
> Can some of you folks help recommend me with which show in October will be better to attend?
> 
> I'm eager to go because CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, and Adam Cole would have already made their debuts (over) a month into their runs by then
> 
> Plus, Kenny Omega and possibly Britt Baker will likely still be world champions by that point!


If you can only attend one, pick Dynamite because it's a 2 hour show.


----------



## Not Lying

The Legit DMD said:


> *I had on site media and fans at the venue join my Twitter Space the day Punk debuted on Rampage. That's where I got a lot of the notes I was sharing. One person said Britt Baker was the number one seller on PWTees before Punk crashed the website. He ran away with it after that. To prevent sell outs of the shirt at the venue, they had people making them from scratch. Fans were there until 3:00 a.m. eating ice cream and buying merch.
> 
> 
> You literally just contradicted yourself by acknowledging that Cena had more merchandise printed to stay on top, (Punk himself confirmed that as well) yet at the same time criticize Roman for taking a while to take his spot. I went to a lot of events after The Shield broke up and verified myself that Roman didn't have an absurd amount of merch compared to everyone else when he was the guy they started focusing on. Notice you've never heard anyone with credibility say that since 2014.*


Well that’s impressive for Britt. Very impressive actually.



The Legit DMD said:


> *I had on site media and fans at the venue join my Twitter Space the day Punk debuted on Rampage. That's where I got a lot of the notes I was sharing. One person said Britt Baker was the number one seller on PWTees before Punk crashed the website. He ran away with it after that. To prevent sell outs of the shirt at the venue, they had people making them from scratch. Fans were there until 3:00 a.m. eating ice cream and buying merch.
> 
> 
> You literally just contradicted yourself by acknowledging that Cena had more merchandise printed to stay on top, (Punk himself confirmed that as well) yet at the same time criticize Roman for taking a while to take his spot. I went to a lot of events after The Shield broke up and verified myself that Roman didn't have an absurd amount of merch compared to everyone else when he was the guy they started focusing on. Notice you've never heard anyone with credibility say that since 2014.*


Didn’t really contracted myself because I don’t know how long this Cena mass marketing/push lasted, I did assume it stopped in 2015 when Roman became the FOTC. If he they kept pushing his merch, it was going to take time, but 2.5-3 years was still a long time, especially for how heavily pushed Reigns was, it was more infuriating to see this push and not see them being justified with it. (Reigns started growing on me in mid-2018, and when he returned in 2019, but back then him and Lesnar were so far above everyone the product wasn't enjoyable)

We also never really heard about it except in that story? So yeah, if your point is that's it no longer the case I can buy that he's the #1 selling based on Demands, but as I said, It should be expected from the FOTC


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1433806395850231831
I'm holding him to this. Don't make excuses when it backfires miserably.*


----------



## rbl85

Beating RAW in what ?

Demo ?
Viewers ?
Both ?


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> well, he lives there - maybe its just not in Ohio
> 
> regardless - even if it was JUST AEW and WWE - it does not change a single thing i've said
> 
> 'its an attempt to make live and DVR ads more valuable + they'll have a metric that shows this from their ad sales to try and convince advertisers'


You don't live here don't know what you're talking about shut up.


Garty said:


> Those programs that I mentioned are ones that don't have time-outs, with only set-time commercial spots. If you don't think the examples I've given are not "popular", that's on you. There's actually a few more I thought of... Rose Bowl Parade, Macy's Thanksgiving Parade, Tour de France, both the Boston and New York Marathon's. I've also seen curling even use PIP.


It's not a thing yet shut up


----------



## DammitChrist

There's always a valid explanation if something does come up.

That doesn't mean that it's automatically an "excuse."



rbl85 said:


> Beating RAW in what ?
> 
> Demo ?
> Viewers ?
> Both ?


I think it's probably about the demographic numbers.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Oh god Jericho. He failed psychic class in High School, didn’t he?

(If he actually turned out to be right though then I’m listening to him forever LOL).


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Oh god Jericho. He failed psychic class in High School, didn’t he?
> 
> (If he actually turned out to be right though then I’m listening to him forever LOL).


*This is the kind of shit that sets people up to be clowned when ratings stabilize after stupid ass overhype like calling yourself competition and promising to start a new era by bringing back old fans and creating new ones.*


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> DMD is selling more T-shirts than Omega? Source?
> That’s cool. Another dager to Omega fans
> Yes. Omega is underwhelming. I don’t think he’s as good as people make him out to be. For so much hype, for a 8month+ reign, I still haven’t seen anything that warrants it. Moxley justified his position.
> Darby and DMD becoming just as big or bigger than Kenny without the hype and world title, is impressive for them, embarrassing for him.
> 
> I don’t know what people were telling you exactly or what you’re mad about. Roman has been FOTC for almost 6 years now. It took 3 years after Cena became part-timer for Roman to finally be the #1 merch seller (decline of wrestling popularity? Roman not popular enough?).
> When you are FOTC, WWE markets your product, they have more of them at live events. That’s as far as « forcing » goes. No gun is needed.
> 
> This is from Konan


Do you know how stupid the Konan lie sounds. Why would they make less of a product that's selling. It's not like WWE contracts say the biggest shirt seller gets the #1 push. There's literally 0 incentive to under cut Punk sells.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Do you know how stupid the Konan lie sounds. Why would they make less of a product that's selling. It's not like WWE contracts say the biggest shirt seller gets the #1 push. There's literally 0 incentive to under cut Punk sells.


*I recall him saying something similar on his podcast with Colt. This also stood out:







*


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> *
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1433806395850231831
> I'm holding him to this. Don't make excuses when it backfires miserably.*


They're really going to have to get a hot story to stand a chance at that. Having Punk, Danielson, and Moxley gives them the star power to compete with Raw, but they need the must see story that makes people feel they need to watch AEW


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> *I recall him saying something similar on his podcast with Colt. This also stood out:
> View attachment 107541
> *


I didn't buy it then and I don't buy it now. There's no real incentive for them to not sell all the Punk shirts they could. Punk could sell a million shirts a day, that still doesn't mean they have to write him to be the guy.


----------



## Not Lying

RapShepard said:


> Do you know how stupid the Konan lie sounds. Why would they make less of a product that's selling. It's not like WWE contracts say the biggest shirt seller gets the #1 push. There's literally 0 incentive to under cut Punk sells.


It’s not less crazy than the boss saying he’d rather have half an arena cheering the guy he wants than a full one doing whatever.
Punk cut undercut cause politics 😉


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> It’s not less crazy than the boss saying he’d rather have half an arena cheering the guy he wants than a full one doing whatever.
> Punk cut undercut cause politics


Yeah sure, Punk wasn't undercut he just wasn't biggest star and couldn't take it.


----------



## Not Lying

The Legit DMD said:


> *
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1433806395850231831
> I'm holding him to this. Don't make excuses when it backfires miserably.*


Embarassing, but expect nothing less from Jericho. He might be be thinking football will affect them much but RAW will bottom at 1.6 max. It's going to take 2-4 years more likely. 



RapShepard said:


> Yeah sure, Punk *was* undercut he just wasn't *allowed to be the *biggest star and couldn't take it.


fixed that for you. Facts.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1433806395850231831
> I'm holding him to this. Don't make excuses when it backfires miserably.*


he‘s smoking grass


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> You don't live here don't know what you're talking about shut up. It's not a thing yet shut up


you’re so sassy when you discuss stuff you cannot comprehend and then get flustered like a little cranky toddler

’shut up!’ 🤣 

man-child


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you’re so sassy when you discuss stuff you cannot comprehend and then get flustered like a little cranky toddler
> 
> ’shut up!’
> 
> man-child


Your points just don't make sense.

1. PiP isn't a thing advertisers care about that's ShowBuzz words.

2. PiP aren't used in the major sports that actually get the biggest advertising dollars. 

Conclusion you have no valid point, so shut up.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

I’d be skeptical of the Konan story IF I didn’t think/know the following two things were true:

1) Vince is a petty, insane old man who would do whatever he can to prove himself right.

2) I’ve seen those merch stands during Cena being on top, and there was always a ton of Cena merchandise. The one show live I went to after Roman’s push began, it was the same thing with Roman (though his shirts don’t stand out nearly as much).


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> Embarassing, but expect nothing less from Jericho. He might be be thinking football will affect them much but RAW will bottom at 1.6 max. It's going to take 2-4 years more likely.





LifeInCattleClass said:


> he‘s smoking grass


*It's good to know y'all have limits 😂*


----------



## Not Lying

#BadNewsSanta said:


> The one show live I went to after Roman’s push began, it was the same thing with Roman *(though his shirts don’t stand out nearly as much)*.


It's cause of the colors


----------



## RapShepard

#BadNewsSanta said:


> I’d be skeptical of the Konan story IF I didn’t think/know the following two things were true:
> 
> 1) Vince is a petty, insane old man who would do whatever he can to prove himself right.
> 
> 2) I’ve seen those merch stands during Cena being on top, and there was always a ton of Cena merchandise. The one show live I went to after Roman’s push began, it was the same thing with Roman (though his shirts don’t stand out nearly as much).


The conspiracy doesn't make sense in reality though. Merch prices aren't low enough for folk to take a "fuck it, I guess I'll just buy this instead" approach.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Your points just don't make sense.
> 
> 1. PiP isn't a thing advertisers care about that's ShowBuzz words.
> 
> 2. PiP aren't used in the major sports that actually get the biggest advertising dollars.
> 
> Conclusion you have no valid point, so shut up.


listen mate, i‘ve said pleeeenty of fucking times now, we’re not talking about major sports. You said its not on there, and i believe you

at the same time people like garty and bohemian confirmed its in lesser sports and events, and that is also fine - no reason to not believe them

and then i said you can even take aaaaaaallllll of that away, and just leave it as PIP in wrestling

and the same fucking point will apply - ‘they are doing pip in order to try and raise the value of live and DVR ads, and I am sure tv ad sales will have a metric around that’

even your showbuzz thing agrees - they say ‘the networks love this shit, but ad agencies don’t’ - no shit, the network is ‘tv ad sales’ - its their job to try and convince the ‘agencies’ to spend more money in new ways, and using this pip metrics will be one of them, alongside plenty others

but because you have no knowledge of the subject, no basis and no experience - your ”debate” has gone to the utter moronic ‘you don’t live here, you don’t know’ and ’shut up’

the WORLD has DVR silly, of course i know


----------



## EMGESP

Am I the only one who thinks $50 for this PPV is a bit expensive? Also why is it so much more expensive to stream in US vs UK? Its only $20 if you can stream it via Fite TV.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

RapShepard said:


> The conspiracy doesn't make sense in reality though. Merch prices aren't low enough for folk to take a "fuck it, I guess I'll just buy this instead" approach.


That’s not exactly it, although putting more merch out could subconsciously effect people’s buying decisions, but that’s not even necessarily what he’s saying.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> listen mate, i‘ve said pleeeenty of fucking times now, we’re not talking about major sports. You said its not on there, and i believe you
> 
> at the same time people like garty and bohemian confirmed its in lesser sports and events, and that is also fine - no reason to not believe them
> 
> and then i said you can even take aaaaaaallllll of that away, and just leave it as PIP in wrestling
> 
> and the same fucking point will apply - ‘they are doing pip in order to try and raise the value of live and DVR ads, and I am sure tv ad sales will have a metric around that’
> 
> even your showbuzz thing agrees - they say ‘the networks love this shit, but ad agencies don’t’ - no shit, the network is ‘tv ad sales’ - its their job to try and convince the ‘agencies’ to spend more money in new ways, and using this pip metrics will be one of them, alongside plenty others
> 
> but because you have no knowledge of the subject, no basis and no experience - your ”debate” has gone to the utter moronic ‘you don’t live here, you don’t know’ and ’shut up’
> 
> the WORLD has DVR silly, of course i know


1. If ads in DVR mattered the major sports would be rife with PiP since they're the big ad getters.

2. it's a brag for the network, but doesn't bring extra money to the show since the advertisers don't care so it's irrelevant

You keep trying to argue how it matters, but the reality is if it was a big thing they'd be doing it hardcore on major US sports and live shows. As of now PiP just isn't a go to way to advertise in the US. You literally posted an article from 2013 about PiP ads, it's 2021 and it still hasn't caught on yet. Which would imply that advertisers here still want a full screen ad over integrating it into the program. You're trying to make a complex discussion out of a simple conversation. If Picture in Picture was considered a great way to advertise it would be common place in broadcasts of major US sports.


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> half and half - they sometimes will run its on its own and sometimes pretape
> 
> so far from the 4, including tonight - 1 was pretaped, 3 was live
> 
> the live ones are an extra 6k + 15k + 6k tix they sold
> 
> we’ll see how they keep it up / there has been a couple of live ones announced into the next 2 months i think


Yeah but these three were the first, punk, last before all out. I would like to get a number for a regular week, especially with them not being in the same city as Dynamite. Atm they are piggybacking off of Dynamite/Punk/Chicago


----------



## Geert Wilders

RapShepard said:


> 1. If ads in DVR mattered the major sports would be rife with PiP since they're the big ad getters.
> 
> 2. it's a brag for the network, but doesn't bring extra money to the show since the advertisers don't care so it's irrelevant
> 
> You keep trying to argue how it matters, but the reality is if it was a big thing they'd be doing it hardcore on major US sports and live shows. As of now PiP just isn't a go to way to advertise in the US. You literally posted an article from 2013 about PiP ads, it's 2021 and it still hasn't caught on yet. Which would imply that advertisers here still want a full screen ad over integrating it into the program. You're trying to make a complex discussion out of a simple conversation. If Picture in Picture was considered a great way to advertise it would be common place in broadcasts of major US sports.


major sports make money from on screen advertising. 

i dont think AEW want to plaster their ringside with advertising. I don't think wrestlers would be happy to be sponsored by Bank of America.


----------



## RapShepard

Geert Wilders said:


> major sports make money from on screen advertising.
> 
> i dont think AEW want to plaster their ringside with advertising. I don't think wrestlers would be happy to be sponsored by Bank of America.


No doubt the sponsor logos equals money, but the point stands for commercials if picture and picture ads were considered effective they would be the dominant feature in major US sports.


----------



## Geert Wilders

RapShepard said:


> No doubt the sponsor logos equals money, but the point stands for commercials if picture and picture ads were considered effective they would be the dominant feature in major US sports.


not sure about dominant, but yes i would agree. 

but for sports, they make more money as i mentioned.

this is probably the next best thing for AEW.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> 1. If ads in DVR mattered the major sports would be rife with PiP since they're the big ad getters.
> 
> 2. it's a brag for the network, but doesn't bring extra money to the show since the advertisers don't care so it's irrelevant
> 
> You keep trying to argue how it matters, but the reality is if it was a big thing they'd be doing it hardcore on major US sports and live shows. As of now PiP just isn't a go to way to advertise in the US. You literally posted an article from 2013 about PiP ads, it's 2021 and it still hasn't caught on yet. Which would imply that advertisers here still want a full screen ad over integrating it into the program. You're trying to make a complex discussion out of a simple conversation. If Picture in Picture was considered a great way to advertise it would be common place in broadcasts of major US sports.


it was not a 2013 article - it was an article written after a *2 year study was concluded* which started in 2013 and then a test launched of a whole channel - so, 2016 - 2018

they did a whole neurological test on the effectiveness of these ads. So maybe you are trying to make a simple conversation out of a complex one

and for the last time, please concentrate now….. i have not once said it was considered a ‘great’ way to advertise. Or effective. Or good. Or bad.

i only explained WHY they were doing it (which the articles etc etc all backs up) and how i think an Ad Sales dept would use it

that is it - you‘re coming for my neck since yesterday because your reading comprehension is off. You think i’m saying the DVR numbers suddenly matter - i did not

i explained how a sales person would use all that data they have and TRY and ATTEMPT to make it matter to the advertiser - it is literally their job to do that 🤦‍♂️

and I am frankly fucking shocked and appalled that you don‘t get that


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Yeah but these three were the first, punk, last before all out. I would like to get a number for a regular week, especially with them not being in the same city as Dynamite. Atm they are piggybacking off of Dynamite/Punk/Chicago


i think they’ll always be in the same city

in fact, they’ll always run the same building too - cheaper that way


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

EMGESP said:


> Am I the only one who thinks $50 for this PPV is a bit expensive? Also why is it so much more expensive to stream in US vs UK? Its only $20 if you can stream it via Fite TV.


*See if it's showing in your local Cinemark movie theater, because that's how I watch these pay-per-views if the card is good. *


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *See if it's showing in your local Cinemark movie theater, because that's how I watch these pay-per-views if the card is good. *


TK said 140 cinemas in the media call If i recall correctly


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it was not a 2013 article - it was an article written after a *2 year study was concluded* which started in 2013 and then a test launched of a whole channel - so, 2016 - 2018
> 
> they did a whole neurological test on the effectiveness of these ads. So maybe you are trying to make a simple conversation out of a complex one
> 
> *and for the last time, please concentrate now….. i have not once said it was considered a ‘great’ way to advertise. Or effective. Or good. Or bad.
> 
> i only explained WHY they were doing it (which the articles etc etc all backs up) and how i think an Ad Sales dept would use it
> 
> that is it - you‘re coming for my neck since yesterday because your reading comprehension is off. You think i’m saying the DVR numbers suddenly matter - i did not
> 
> i explained how a sales person would use all that data they have and TRY and ATTEMPT to make it matter to the advertiser - it is literally their job to do that *
> 
> and I am frankly fucking shocked and appalled that you don‘t get that


This is you below



LifeInCattleClass said:


> For shits and giggles - dvr is why there is picture in picture so much
> 
> they’re trying to get the people to not forward
> 
> tv ad sales will have a metric for ad buyers of ‘our dvr ads gets watched x amount of minutes’






LifeInCattleClass said:


> most sports do split sceen / pip / pushes/ banners etc etc
> 
> why else do you think they do pip - for fun?






LifeInCattleClass said:


> so, you’re saying its only
> 
> A. A wrestling thing
> 
> and
> 
> B. Only in South Africa, Uk, Netherlands, Germany where i’ve seen it?
> 
> wow, talk about niche - interesting


Your argument just doesn't hold water, if Picture in Picture Ads were that effective advertisers would be moving more swiftly towards that in the major US sports since those get big views and do great in the demo. You're just off on this.


----------



## DaSlacker

RapShepard said:


> They're really going to have to get a hot story to stand a chance at that. Having Punk, Danielson, and Moxley gives them the star power to compete with Raw, * but they need the must see story that makes people feel they need to watch AEW*


1) Windham Rotunda's higher power
2) Hit and run on CM Punk
3) Dr Brit Baker mystery affair 
4) Who got Dr. Brit Baker pregnant 
5) Shahid Khan buys NWA, Impact etc
6) Tony Khan's limo explodes, killing him


Yeah, I just ripped off the entire Monday Night Wars. But the ratings would increase if done right lol.


----------



## RapShepard

DaSlacker said:


> 1) Windham Rotunda's higher power
> 2) Hit and run on CM Punk
> 3) Dr Brit Baker mystery affair
> 4) Who got Dr. Brit Baker pregnant
> 5) Shahid Khan buys NWA, Impact etc
> 6) Tony Khan's limo explodes, killing him
> 
> 
> Yeah, I just ripped off the entire Monday Night Wars. But the ratings would increase if done right lol.


I'm with the fuckery and a lot of easy to please Americans would also be with it


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> TK said 140 cinemas in the media call If i recall correctly


*I love living in a major market.







*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> This is you below
> 
> 
> Your argument just doesn't hold water, if Picture in Picture Ads were that effective advertisers would be moving more swiftly towards that in the major US sports since those get big views and do great in the demo. You're just off on this.


yes - all that is me

show me where i said it was ‘good’ or ‘better’ or ‘worse’

i stick by what i said - pip is a way to attempt by the networks to make live and dvr ads worth more - and they will have all those metrics ready to try and convince advertisers of their case 

its not an ‘argument’ to hold ‘water’ - we’re not having a debate. i‘m simply telling you what is happening and you keep deflecting into a thousand directions for who knows what reason. Take it or leave it


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *I love living in a major market.
> View attachment 107543
> *


oooh, are you going to watch it in cinema?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> oooh, are you going to watch it in cinema?


*As always when the card is decent, yes. I skipped barbed wire bullshit, thankfully.*


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yes - all that is me
> 
> show me where i said it was ‘good’ or ‘better’ or ‘worse’
> 
> i stick by what i said - pip is a way to attempt by the networks to make live and dvr ads worth more - and they will have all those metrics ready to try and convince advertisers of their case
> 
> its not an ‘argument’ to hold ‘water’ - we’re not having a debate. i‘m simply telling you what is happening and you keep deflecting into a thousand directions for who knows what reason. Take it or leave it


Again this is you




LifeInCattleClass said:


> For shits and giggles - dvr is why there is picture in picture so much
> 
> they’re trying to get the people to not forward
> 
> tv ad sales will have a metric for ad buyers of ‘our dvr ads gets watched x amount of minutes’






LifeInCattleClass said:


> most sports do split sceen / pip / pushes/ banners etc etc
> 
> why else do you think they do pip - for fun?






LifeInCattleClass said:


> so, you’re saying its only
> 
> A. A wrestling thing
> 
> and
> 
> B. Only in South Africa, Uk, Netherlands, Germany where i’ve seen it?
> 
> wow, talk about niche - interesting


You're trying to talk about why it's used and I'm telling you, yeah it's not really used like that in the States because clearly advertisers don't think it's effective.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Again this is you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're trying to talk about why it's used and I'm telling you, yeah it's not really used like that in the States because clearly advertisers don't think it's effective.


then i look forward to Fox, USA and TNT stopping it - because if its not beneficial it must be harmful having a block of video play over their advertisers ads

if i was an advertiser and there was a PIP hurting my ROI i would not advertise and i would request its stopped - as that is the logical conclusion

agreed?

its either a benefit, or a detriment - it cannot be ‘nothing’ otherwise it would not exist


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *As always when the card is decent, yes. I skipped barbed wire bullshit, thankfully.*


what is it like in this setting? Are people loud and clapping and chanting?

or is it more like watching a movie? People being quiet for the most part


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> then i look forward to Fox, USA and TNT stopping it - because if its not beneficial it must be harmful having a block of video play over their advertisers ads
> 
> if i was an advertiser and there was a PIP hurting my ROI i would not advertise and i would request its stopped - as that is the logical conclusion
> 
> agreed?
> 
> its either a benefit, or a detriment - it cannot be ‘nothing’ otherwise it would not exist


The most logical conclusion is 

If PiP ads were as effective as full screen ads, advertisers would motion to move towards that because viewers of sports could never avoid the ads be it live or on delay. Because they haven't moved that way it's clear that as of now it's not found to be of as much value as full screen live ads or it wouldn't be niche in the programming it's integrated into.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> The most logical conclusion is
> 
> If PiP ads were as effective as full screen ads, advertisers would motion to move towards that because viewers of sports could never avoid the ads be it live or on delay. Because they haven't moved that way it's clear that as of now it's not found to be of as much value as full screen live ads or it wouldn't be niche in the programming it's integrated into.


then why not remove it from where it is currently live? They can have fullscreen ads there without pip


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> then why not remove it from where it is currently live? They can have fullscreen ads there without pip


Because they can still place in ad, just at a cheaper price with less effectiveness.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> what is it like in this setting? Are people loud and clapping and chanting?
> 
> or is it more like watching a movie? People being quiet for the most part


*Last time I sat with guys making Cornette jokes and getting hype over everything, so it was fun. The Young Bucks' match will be used for a popcorn refill.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Because they can still place in ad, just at a cheaper price with less effectiveness.


why would the network want the price to be cheaper and the ad less effective?

why make the active choice to ‘make less money’


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *Last time I sat with guys making Cornette jokes and getting hype over everything, so it was fun. The Young Bucks' match will be used for a popcorn refill.*


That’s your big loss. 

The Steel Cage match with the Young Bucks and the Lucha Bros will help steal the show. 

Hopefully, they get a half-hour so nobody can “skip” that awesome match


----------



## omaroo

Get lack of build on some of the matches and think AEW should be doing better builds for ppvs overall. Thats still an issue for me imo.

But cards looks really good. Should be a cracking ppv I would think with some cool moments.

Cole or Bryan debuting here is also highly possible.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> why would the network want the price to be cheaper and the ad less effective?
> 
> why make the active choice to ‘make less money’


Because they can still air the program and make money. It's not that difficult of a thought process

Full ads cost more and are more effective, but PiP ads still sell for the network and cost less for advertisers.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

omaroo said:


> Get lack of build on some of the matches and think AEW should be doing better builds for ppvs overall. Thats still an issue for me imo.
> 
> But cards looks really good. Should be a cracking ppv I would think with some cool moments.
> 
> Cole or Bryan debuting here is also highly possible.


*Agreed. I'm very disappointed by the Britt Baker/Statlander build, but she's just a filler opponent and I'll get over it when they give her a real feud next week.*


----------



## DaSlacker

RapShepard said:


> I'm with the fuckery and a lot of easy to please Americans would also be with it [emoji23]


😂 😂 

In semi seriousness though. The other day I went to see the new Candyman movie. In a few months time it will be Halloween Kills and Ghostbusters 3. Currently working my way through the new Equalizer reboot and soon there's a Wonder Years reboot. If Hollywood can make big money off stuff from 30 - 40 years ago then wrestling needs to look inwards and raid its archives. Soap operas recycle the same ludicrous shit time and time again.

The trick is to take the same plot, rearrange and produce it in a different way.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Because they can still air the program and make money. It's not that difficult of a thought process
> 
> Full ads cost more and are more effective, but PiP ads still sell for the network and cost less for advertisers.


they can remove the pip and put a relevant rate for the ad that is reflective of its value

there is no reason to ‘add pip to make the ad cheaper’ - you just drop the price of the fullscreen ad

otherwise they would have pip in all lower end programming by that logic to ‘make it cheaper’ for advertisers


----------



## RapShepard

DaSlacker said:


> [emoji23] [emoji23]
> 
> In semi seriousness though. The other day I went to see the new Candyman movie. In a few months time it will be Halloween Kills and Ghostbusters 3. Currently working my way through the new Equalizer reboot and soon there's a Wonder Years reboot. If Hollywood can make big money off stuff from 30 - 40 years ago then wrestling needs to look inwards and raid its archives. Soap operas recycle the same ludicrous shit time and time again.
> 
> The trick is to take the same plot, rearrange and produce it in a different way.


Hollywood and the gaming industry love to milk nostalgia lol



LifeInCattleClass said:


> they can remove the pip and put a relevant rate for the ad that is reflective of its value
> 
> there is no reason to ‘add pip to make the ad cheaper’ - you just drop the price of the fullscreen ad
> 
> otherwise they would have pip in all lower end programming by that logic to ‘make it cheaper’ for advertisers


What's so hard to grasp about PiP ads haven't been determined to be as effective as full screen ads in the US therefore they're not used as much.

What's so hard to grasp about a PiP ad would be a less expensive spot than a regular full screen ad.


----------



## 3venflow

Official: Rampage will have more fans than Dynamite. Friday night + All Out weekend probably plays a factor.

Rampage has outdrawn Dynamite all three weeks it has been done live now.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1433962870044303364


----------



## CM Buck

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yes… i can reveal - all this time @Firefromthegods is Matt Buck and @Klitschko is Nick
> 
> it is why he has a Dave Meltzer avi


How the fuck did you find out I was balding like Matt?


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> True story, don't remember the complete context but I think @bdon was involved.
> 
> Bdon (Or whoever it was) got upset over something and sarcastically said something along the lines of "What are they going to do next? Have a teddy bear shoot lasers from its eyes?"
> 
> I shit you not, the very next episode of BTE we had a teddy bear shooting lasers from its eyes the exact same way it was described on this forum.
> 
> So someone reads here, not sure if it's the Bucks themselves but definitely someone.


It was Matt Hardy teleporting and forcing Jericho and the announce team to sell it. I said, “Why don’t we just have Kenny or Cody come out next week and pretend to shoot lasers out their fucking eyes and make Matt Hardy sell his death.”

6 days later on BTE we had Private Party quarantining in NYC doing a bit where the Teddy Bear shot bullets out his eyes to prevent the “monster” from stopping Private Party from climbing the ladder.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> What's so hard to grasp about PiP ads haven't been determined to be as effective as full screen ads in the US therefore they're not used as much.
> 
> What's so hard to grasp about a PiP ad would be a less expensive spot than a regular full screen ad.


nothing is hard to grasp, except its a made-up thought in your head

if it was less effective and therefore cheaper - they would stop doing them

they had 3 on Rampage - why ‘lose’ all that money

are you seriously taking the stance - with no backing from anything

that networks are willingly losing money on PIP for absolutely no reason at all?

cause if that is your stance, from all of this - the Ohio school system has a lot to answer for


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> nothing is hard to grasp, except its a made-up thought in your head
> 
> if it was less effective and therefore cheaper - they would stop doing them
> 
> they had 3 on Rampage - why ‘lose’ all that money
> 
> are you seriously taking the stance - with no backing from anything
> 
> that networks are willingly losing money on PIP for absolutely no reason at all?
> 
> cause if that is your stance, from all of this - the Ohio school system has a lot to answer for


Oh you're just slow lol, okay let's set the table

You a South African are trying to tell me an actual US citizen how TV ads in the US work and how prevalent they are? This is the hill you want to die on? You want to debate someone who actually lives in the US and watches US TV on what the dominant ads are from South Africa? 

You literally don't know what you're talking about, and it's not your fault because you don't live here so I don't expect you to get it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Oh you're just slow lol, okay let's set the table
> 
> You a South African are trying to tell me an actual US citizen how TV ads in the US work and how prevalent they are? This is the hill you want to die on? You want to debate someone who actually lives in the US and watches US TV on what the dominant ads are from South Africa?
> 
> You literally don't know what you're talking about, and it's not your fault because you don't live here so I don't expect you to get it.


that is like an anti-vaxxer from the USA debating vaccines with a doctor from South Africa cause he doesn’t live there

let’s summarise this 2 day saga

*I say:*

’They are doing PIP because they likely want to make live and DVR ads more valuable, and tv ad sales will have the metrics to try and convince advertisers’

*you say:*

PIP is by your logic less effective and worth less, so they are using it to make the ads cheaper for advertisers - making an active decision to make less money as a result



…..

i’m not dying on any hill mate - but you are actively burying yourself in one


----------



## Garty

RapShepard said:


> Oh you're just slow lol, okay let's set the table
> 
> You a South African are trying to tell me an actual US citizen how TV ads in the US work and how prevalent they are? This is the hill you want to die on? You want to debate someone who actually lives in the US and watches US TV on what the dominant ads are from South Africa?
> 
> You literally don't know what you're talking about, and it's not your fault because you don't live here so I don't expect you to get it.


Rap, there's an easy explanation of why NBA, NHL, MLB and other major sports don't use the PIP.

First, the viewership is much larger for these sports or programs, than the others I mentioned earlier. Second, those same viewers will stick around or sit through an ad because they know that once they're finished, it's back to the game. Third, those "lesser" shows are trying to stop you from changing the channel during a break, which is why it's used. Fourth and probably the biggest issue with PIP in major sports... 95% of the viewers would lose their shit and then jump onto social media to complain about it, sports journalists would write about it in an opinion column, etc.

Do you really believe that a bunch of drunk guys watching an NFL game in a bar or at home, are going to sit there squinting to see what's happening in a little box and liking it? Yeah, probably not.

@LifeInCattleClass


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Garty said:


> Rap, there's an easy explanation of why NBA, NHL, MLB and other major sports don't use the PIP.
> 
> First, the viewership is much larger for these sports or programs, than the others I mentioned earlier. Second, those same viewers will stick around or sit through an ad because they know that once they're finished, it's back to the game. Third, those "lesser" shows are trying to stop you from changing the channel during a break, which is why it's used. Fourth and probably the biggest issue with PIP in major sports... 95% of the viewers would lose their shit and then jump onto social media to complain about it, sports journalists would write about it in an opinion column, etc.
> 
> Do you really believe that a bunch of drunk guys watching an NFL game in a bar or at home, are going to sit there squinting to see what's happening in a little box and liking it? Yeah, probably not.
> 
> @LifeInCattleClass


either that, or they are testing it on lesser programs and will in future roll it out on more major ones once people have gotten used to it


----------



## Garty

LifeInCattleClass said:


> either that, or they are testing it on lesser programs and will in future roll it out on more major ones once people have gotten used to it


Nah, I don't think it'll ever happen. Maybe they keep the time-out (forced) commercial breaks as they normally would, use the PIP, half for that ad and the other half, the athletes standing around waiting to come back live... but that really seems kind of dumb. Honestly Life, I don't think it would go over well here in North America.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Garty said:


> Nah, I don't think it'll ever happen. Maybe they keep the time-out (forced) commercial breaks as they normally would, use the PIP, half for that ad and the other half, the athletes standing around waiting to come back live... but that really seems kind of dumb. Honestly Life, I don't think it would go over well here in North America.


what about during time-outs?


----------



## A PG Attitude

EMGESP said:


> Am I the only one who thinks $50 for this PPV is a bit expensive? Also why is it so much more expensive to stream in US vs UK? Its only $20 if you can stream it via Fite TV.


No one in the UK would pay that much for a PPV.


----------



## Martyn

EMGESP said:


> Am I the only one who thinks $50 for this PPV is a bit expensive? Also why is it so much more expensive to stream in US vs UK? Its only $20 if you can stream it via Fite TV.


Dont forget that you get it in prime time in the US. In Europe it starts at 1am for the UK and 2am for the rest of the EU.

I'd gladly pay 50e and watch it at 8pm.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Martyn said:


> Dont forget that you get it in prime time in the US. In Europe it starts at 1am for the UK and 2am for the rest of the EU.
> 
> I'd gladly pay 50e and watch it at 8pm.


100%


----------



## Garty

LifeInCattleClass said:


> what about during time-outs?


Hey Life, during time-outs, they'll run a graphic with voice-over on the wide camera shot of the arena, field, etc., usually no more than 10-15 seconds. It's more of a placement, than a full-fledged commercial or ad.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> For shits and giggles - dvr is why there is picture in picture so much
> 
> they’re trying to get the people to not forward
> 
> tv ad sales will have a metric for ad buyers of ‘our dvr ads gets watched x amount of minutes’






LifeInCattleClass said:


> most sports do split sceen / pip / pushes/ banners etc etc
> 
> why else do you think they do pip - for fun?






LifeInCattleClass said:


> so its only in wresting
> 
> you’ve never seen a half screen banner push up during a game?
> 
> why do you think its only in wrestling and what are the benefits?
> 
> ps> i’ve been to the US a couple of times and we get US channels over here, just as an aside


Again this is you above



LifeInCattleClass said:


> that is like an anti-vaxxer from the USA debating vaccines with a doctor from South Africa cause he doesn’t live there
> 
> let’s summarise this 2 day saga
> 
> *I say:*
> 
> ’They are doing PIP because they likely want to make live and DVR ads more valuable, and tv ad sales will have the metrics to try and convince advertisers’
> 
> *you say:*
> 
> PIP is by your logic less effective and worth less, so they are using it to make the ads cheaper for advertisers - making an active decision to make less money as a result
> 
> 
> 
> …..
> 
> i’m not dying on any hill mate - but you are actively burying yourself in one






Garty said:


> Rap, there's an easy explanation of why NBA, NHL, MLB and other major sports don't use the PIP.
> 
> First, the viewership is much larger for these sports or programs, than the others I mentioned earlier. Second, those same viewers will stick around or sit through an ad because they know that once they're finished, it's back to the game. Third, those "lesser" shows are trying to stop you from changing the channel during a break, which is why it's used. Fourth and probably the biggest issue with PIP in major sports... 95% of the viewers would lose their shit and then jump onto social media to complain about it, sports journalists would write about it in an opinion column, etc.
> 
> Do you really believe that a bunch of drunk guys watching an NFL game in a bar or at home, are going to sit there squinting to see what's happening in a little box and liking it? Yeah, probably not.
> 
> @LifeInCattleClass


If PiP ads were so lucrative and effective they wouldn't be reduced to only being in low tier sports. The fact you have fucking Garty asserting that they're not in major sports because fans would get mad should show you how ridiculous you're opinion is.


Castle you do realize ads cost different prices depending on the spot right? You understand a Monday Around The Horn spot doesn't count the same as a Monday Night Football ad right? If you have enough sense to realize those ad prices are different, then you're smart enough to realize that a PiP ad isn't the same price as a full screen ad, but it works for the network and company as the network gets to show it's program still and the ad company gets to play an ad that can't be skipped. 

Nobody that actually lives and watches sports in the US has backed you up on the assertion PiP is a normal thing advertisers use but Garty who brought out the popular sports of Golf and fucking Formula 1. You have no point, PiP isn't a thing yet for US cable.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Garty said:


> Hey Life, during time-outs, they'll run a graphic with voice-over on the wide camera shot of the arena, field, etc., usually no more than 10-15 seconds. It's more of a placement, than a full-fledged commercial or ad.


gotcha


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Again this is you above
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If PiP ads were so lucrative and effective they wouldn't be reduced to only being in low tier sports. The fact you have fucking Garty asserting that they're not in major sports because fans would get mad should show you how ridiculous you're opinion is.
> 
> 
> Castle you do realize ads cost different prices depending on the spot right? You understand a Monday Around The Horn spot doesn't count the same as a Monday Night Football ad right? If you have enough sense to realize those ad prices are different, then you're smart enough to realize that a PiP ad isn't the same price as a full screen ad, but it works for the network and company as the network gets to show it's program still and the ad company gets to play an ad that can't be skipped.
> 
> Nobody that actually lives and watches sports in the US has backed you up on the assertion PiP is a normal thing advertisers use but Garty who brought out the popular sports of Golf and fucking Formula 1. You have no point, PiP isn't a thing yet for US cable.


you are ignoring the original point

so what is really the point?

you’ve convinced me - pip is somehow magically worth less than a normal ad, and that is why they did it 3 times during Rampage - to save the advertisers a couple of bucks

the altruism of the tv ad networks truly knows no bounds.


----------



## Garty

You're right Rap, neither of us knows anything.

So, you're really telling me that if an NFL game had PIP during a crucial play, controversial moment, touchdown, etc. that you'd rather watch that 1/3 of the screen instead of full-screen?! I could understand an NBA game using PIP during a free-throw, or penalty shot, but again, you wouldn't want to see some amazing run up the court scrunched up in the corner of the screen?!

The major sports are too big for PIP ads. They don't need them. There is no way you could convince me that the millions of die-hards, or even average fans of any major sport, if given a choice, would rather watch parts of a game in a little box, or miss nothing with a scheduled TV time-out or commercial spot.

I would think that almost everyone here hates the PIP during wrestling matches and would rather watch a match bell-to-bell without interruption, but that'd be impossible a majority of the time. It's good to see the parts of a match you'd otherwise "miss" traditionally, but like the major sports (as wrestling fans, we don't have a choice) I think we'd also like no PIP during wrestling either.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Garty said:


> You're right Rap, neither of us knows anything.
> 
> So, you're really telling me that if an NFL game had PIP during a crucial play, controversial moment, touchdown, etc. that you'd rather watch that 1/3 of the screen instead of full-screen?! I could understand an NBA game using PIP during a free-throw, or penalty shot, but again, you wouldn't want to see some amazing run up the court scrunched up in the corner of the screen?!
> 
> The major sports are too big for PIP ads. They don't need them. There is no way you could convince me that the millions of die-hards, or even average fans of any major sport, if given a choice, would rather watch parts of a game in a little box, or miss nothing with a scheduled TV time-out or commercial spot.
> 
> I would think that almost everyone here hates the PIP during wrestling matches and would rather watch a match bell-to-bell without interruption, but that'd be impossible a majority of the time. It's good to see the parts of a match you'd otherwise "miss" traditionally, but like the major sports (as wrestling fans, we don't have a choice) I think we'd also like no PIP during wrestling either.


out of interest Garty, why do you think pip is a thing in wrestling (or in general)

what does it achieve?


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you are ignoring the original point
> 
> so what is really the point?
> 
> you’ve convinced me - pip is somehow magically worth less than a normal ad, and that is why they did it 3 times during Rampage - to save the advertisers a couple of bucks
> 
> the altruism of the tv ad networks truly knows no bounds.


Again if PiP ads were determined to be super effective they'd be used in the major sports, they aren't yet. You're off the mark here, South African TV practices haven't made it here yet. Maybe in the future, as of now it's not a thing.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Again if PiP ads were determined to be super effective they'd be used in the major sports, they aren't yet. You're off the mark here, South African TV practices haven't made it here yet. Maybe in the future, as of now it's not a thing.


i….. never…..said….they….were……………..e…..f….f…..e…c….t….i….v…e

if you’re not going to try and attempt to understand my point, then i assert that you have convinced me - pip is worth less and that is why they are doing it

good guy tv networks for the win


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i….. never…..said….they….were……………..e…..f….f…..e…c….t….i….v…e
> 
> if you’re not going to try and attempt to understand my point, then i assert that you have convinced me - pip is worth less and that is why they are doing it
> 
> good guy tv networks for the win


Again this is you


LifeInCattleClass said:


> For shits and giggles - dvr is why there is picture in picture so much
> 
> they’re trying to get the people to not forward
> 
> tv ad sales will have a metric for ad buyers of ‘our dvr ads gets watched x amount of minutes’






LifeInCattleClass said:


> most sports do split sceen / pip / pushes/ banners etc etc
> 
> why else do you think they do pip - for fun?


Everything about these posts is you suggesting they do them because they're effective, everybody besides Garty has told you clearly they aren't effective because if they were they'd be used in the major sports.


----------



## Garty

LifeInCattleClass said:


> out of interest Garty, why do you think pip is a thing in wrestling (or in general)
> 
> what does it achieve?


I'd say it's a 50/50 compromise for both fan and advertiser. We get to see a complete match, while the sponsor also gets it's ad watched/seen by more people than it would the traditional way of "we'll be right back", having to wait 2-3minutes... which most people do not wait around to do. They'll just check back infrequently to see if it's back live.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Again this is you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything about these posts is you suggesting they do them because they're effective, everybody besides Garty has told you clearly they aren't effective because if they were they'd be used in the major sports.


what about this

_*’*_
*they’re trying to get the people to not forward

tv ad sales will have a metric for ad buyers of ‘our dvr ads gets watched x amount of minutes’*

makes you think i am saying its more effective?


----------



## Garty

RapShepard said:


> Everything about these posts is you suggesting they do them because they're effective, everybody besides Garty has told you clearly they aren't effective because if they were they'd be used in the major sports.


I never said they were effective, or ineffective... I said it's a way to maintain your audience, instead of having them tune out completely when a full scheduled TV time-out is required. This practice would never 'get over' in major professional sports, simply with the examples I gave you above.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> what about this
> 
> _*’*_
> *they’re trying to get the people to not forward
> 
> tv ad sales will have a metric for ad buyers of ‘our dvr ads gets watched x amount of minutes’*
> 
> make you think i am saying its more effective?


Again if this was the case they'd be the common place ad and not just something regulated to low tier sports. What you're saying makes sense on paper, but everybody except Garty is telling you US advertisers don't agree at the moment or else you'd see it heavily featured in the major US sports.


----------



## Garty

I found these few lines in an article on sports advertising...

_Because sports is different. There are concrete reasons why. Firstly, unlike other platforms of advertisement, sports demands unadulterated attention from viewers.

It happens quite often that people stay glued to the TV sets or their smartphones, irrespective of the happenings in the surrounding. This ensures high engagements and impact of the advertisements, whether it is a commercial break on TV or a popup on smartphones.

Moreover, unlike other forms of entertainment, which can be viewed again at any time, sports has to be watched live. This makes the value of sports advertising rise in comparison to other forms of content, which can be either paused, switched, or shutdown to view at a later date. Last but certainly not least, sports has a universal appeal. It is one of the fewer things in the world that can be enjoyed irrespective of your country or language._


----------



## RapShepard

Garty said:


> I never said they were effective, or ineffective... I said it's a way to maintain your audience, instead of having them tune out completely when a full scheduled TV time-out is required. This practice would never 'get over' in major professional sports, simply with the examples I gave you above.


The problem with you and @LifeInCattleClass points are if it was found to do all the things y'all assert, they'd be implemented in major sports. Advertisers and the network wouldn't give a fuck that a fan was going to be pissy about it. Fans are pissy about ads regardless at least with PiP the action wouldn't stop.


----------



## Garty

RapShepard said:


> The problem with you and @LifeInCattleClass points are if it was found to do all the things y'all assert, they'd be implemented in major sports. Advertisers and the network wouldn't give a fuck that a fan was going to be pissy about it. Fans are pissy about ads regardless at least with PiP the action wouldn't stop.


Remember the old heel tactic of wanting a "time-out" and being told there's no "time-out" in wrestling?!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Again if this was the case they'd be the common place ad and not just something regulated to low tier sports. What you're saying makes sense on paper, but everybody except Garty is telling you US advertisers don't agree at the moment or else you'd see it heavily featured in the major US sports.


but i don’t disagree with any of this

look again at what i typed, and i ask you - ‘what makes you think i said it was effective’

in fact, the highlighted bit proves i’m right


----------



## Garty

RapShepard said:


> The problem with you and @LifeInCattleClass points are if it was found to do all the things y'all assert, they'd be implemented in major sports. Advertisers and the network wouldn't give a fuck that a fan was going to be pissy about it. Fans are pissy about ads regardless at least with PiP the action wouldn't stop.


I think advertisers care way too much about their public perceptions. Social media being to blame.

How many companies over the last two years or more have backed down, backed away, dropped, changed, killed and of course apologized for, for either supporting an athlete or sponsoring a business with an, "...opinion that doesn't fit the character of our brand, therefore we immediately terminate our relationship with..."

So yes, they do care.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> but i don’t disagree with any of this
> 
> look again at what i typed, and i ask you - ‘what makes you think i said it was effective’
> 
> in fact, the highlighted bit proves i’m right


This is you below, everything in this suggests "durr they do them because they work dumbass" lol. Problem is if they did everything you asserted it'd be featured in major sports. 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> For shits and giggles - dvr is why there is picture in picture so much
> 
> they’re trying to get the people to not forward
> 
> tv ad sales will have a metric for ad buyers of ‘our dvr ads gets watched x amount of minutes’






LifeInCattleClass said:


> most sports do split sceen / pip / pushes/ banners etc etc
> 
> why else do you think they do pip - for fun?


----------



## RapShepard

Garty said:


> I think advertisers care way too much about their public perceptions. Social media being to blame.
> 
> How many companies over the last two years or more have backed down, backed away, dropped, changed, killed and of course apologized for, for either supporting an athlete or sponsoring a business with an, "...opinion that doesn't fit the character of our brand, therefore we immediately terminate our relationship with..."
> 
> So yes, they do care.


You are smart enough to realize the difference between backing off of social issue controversy and "ahh there was an ad that put the game in a box" complaints right?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> This is you below, everything in this suggests "durr they do them because they work dumbass" lol. Problem is if they did everything you asserted it'd be featured in major sports.


that is not ‘duuurr, they do them because they work dumbass’ - that is you reading something that isn’t there

just read the words mate - there is no subtext

’they are doing pip, in order to TRY and ATTEMPT to make live and DVR ads worth more’

nothing about effectiveness, working, not working. Nothing.

i am saying - they are doing PIP, for the tv ad sales guys - that is the guys selling tv ads - to *TRY* and convince advertisers to spend money

i am 1000% sure, there is a young ad sales guy right now, sitting in the marketing department of pizza hut, laying it on thick

_’yes, our numbers for this spot is 1.1m, but whoa - look at that key demo’
’ but look here son, that’s cable - our results are in the shitter cause dat them there fuckers keep forwarding our ads with that there DVR thingamagig’

’yes, yes, long time problem sir, but look at this, in this live sports program with this great key demo and which is 1st on the night *ad sales guy is really selling it now* we not only have the 1.1m live viewers, but we‘re carrying on the action DURING the ad break. We’ve found at least 12% of live viewers are forwarding ads less, and NOW also, our DVR +7 days which has actually 1.4m viewers and 33% more key demo is now 16% LESS likely to forward the DVR as a result, meaning the 4k per ad slot you were to pay, is actually now worth 44.5% more!’

and so, because the marketing manager of pizza hut does not know what he’s doing and because he has no kind of return on investment tracking live to check results on a per second basis, is so duly impressed with his 44.5% more value he books 15 slots for the next month and gets a combo deal on 10 more slots on Rampage_


NOTHING to do with the effectiveness he will have afterwards / he won‘t even know until a Month down the line when he gets the quarterly numbers in - and by then the sales guy comes again, with the raised numbers that Punk brought in that one time and new %’s to sell his ads with.

————-

now… if you think that is bullshit - I have nothing else for you. But that is how the tv ad (and magazine actually, with some small variation) worldwide works - not just the US, not just South Africa - worldwide


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

If you want to talk about effectiveness of PIP?

on a hunch only - its not setting the world alight, because you’re right - they would roll it out more if it was / regulations depending - fans be damned

on the other hand its not shitting the bed either, otherwise they would remove it - cause no network is willingly losing money

i’m guessing its an experiment they are keen to continue and get over, to capitalise on the situation i explained in that sales scenario

wether it will work or not, you’ll have to ask them


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> that is not ‘duuurr, they do them because they work dumbass’ - that is you reading something that isn’t there
> 
> just read the words mate - there is no subtext
> 
> ’they are doing pip, in order to TRY and ATTEMPT to make live and DVR ads worth more’
> 
> nothing about effectiveness, working, not working. Nothing.
> 
> i am saying - they are doing PIP, for the tv ad sales guys - that is the guys selling tv ads - to *TRY* and convince advertisers to spend money
> 
> i am 1000% sure, there is a young ad sales guy right now, sitting in the marketing department of pizza hut, laying it on thick
> 
> _’yes, our numbers for this spot is 1.1m, but whoa - look at that key demo’
> ’ but look here son, that’s cable - our results are in the shitter cause dat them there fuckers keep forwarding our ads with that there DVR thingamagig’
> 
> ’yes, yes, long time problem sir, but look at this, in this live sports program with this great key demo and which is 1st on the night *ad sales guy is really selling it now* we not only have the 1.1m live viewers, but we‘re carrying on the action DURING the ad break. We’ve found at least 12% of live viewers are forwarding ads less, and NOW also, our DVR +7 days which has actually 1.4m viewers and 33% more key demo is now 16% LESS likely to forward the DVR as a result, meaning the 4k per ad slot you were to pay, is actually now worth 44.5% more!’
> 
> and so, because the marketing manager of pizza hut does not know what he’s doing and because he has no kind of return on investment tracking live to check results on a per second basis, is so duly impressed with his 44.5% more value he books 15 slots for the next month and gets a combo deal on 10 more slots on Rampage_
> 
> 
> NOTHING to do with the effectiveness he will have afterwards / he won‘t even know until a Month down the line when he gets the quarterly numbers in - and by then the sales guy comes again, with the raised numbers that Punk brought in that one time and new %’s to sell his ads with.
> 
> ————-
> 
> now… if you think that is bullshit - I have nothing else for you. But that is how the tv ad (and magazine actually, with some small variation) worldwide works - not just the US, not just South Africa - worldwide


You posted an article talking about box to box ads from 2013, that's 8 years ago. After 8 years you don't think there'd be enough info on box to box ads by now to make a firm call on whether or not to implement them more especially on major sports that do great ratings?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Or maybe i’ll find out myself one day - we just got betting licenses to a couple of US states and i am connecting to a couple of online betting houses now

so will be advertising there soon

imagine that…. A south african advertising in the US…. How will i ever understand it??


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> You posted an article talking about box to box ads from 2013, that's 8 years ago. After 8 years you don't think there'd be enough info on box to box ads by now to make a firm call on whether or not to implement them more especially on major sports that do great ratings?


2013 was the start of the experiment / experiment ran 2 years and then there is findings and analysis

we’re seeing the fallout now most likely - pip has started being used, no?

only time and revenue will determine if it gets rolled out more

but i am sure if it was making losses it would be shit-canned

this is not a kind industry


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Or maybe i’ll find out myself one day - we just got betting licenses to a couple of US states and i am connecting to a couple of online betting houses now
> 
> so will be advertising there soon
> 
> imagine that…. A south african advertising in the US…. How will i ever understand it??






LifeInCattleClass said:


> 2013 was the start of the experiment / experiment ran 2 years and then there is findings and analysis
> 
> we’re seeing the fallout now most likely - pip has started being used, no?
> 
> only time and revenue will determine if it gets rolled out more
> 
> but i am sure if it was making losses it would be shit-canned
> 
> this is not a kind industry


You obviously don't understand much with your inability to grasp that PiP ads as of now aren't being implemented in to the major sports yet, major sports which offer some of the best advertising opportunities yet. You thought that because in South Africa they're apparently more commonplace they were a thing here and it's not. You keep arguing "well they do it for a reason" but every US citizen besides @Garty is telling you

"no shit they do it because it's still an ad placement, but they must not find it as effective atm because all the major US sports don't really use PiP ads and still operate on a schedule that includes timeouts specifically for commercials to run".


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> You obviously don't understand much with your inability to grasp that PiP ads as of now aren't being implemented in to the major sports yet, major sports which offer some of the best advertising opportunities yet. You thought that because in South Africa they're apparently more commonplace they were a thing here and it's not. You keep arguing "well they do it for a reason" but every US citizen besides @Garty is telling you
> 
> "no shit they do it because it's still an ad placement, but they must not find it as effective atm because all the major US sports don't really use PiP ads and still operate on a schedule that includes timeouts specifically for commercials to run".


why do you keep coming back to major sports as if it proves some point?

all you need to know as a ‘citizen’ is that it is live in wrestling and a few other cases as Garty and Bohemian raised, and it hasn’t been stopped

the very fact that it hasn’t been stopped means there is something worthwhile for them to keep doing it.

if it was shitting the bed, it would be stopped

its sales, not charity


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> why do you keep coming back to major sports as if it proves some point?
> 
> all you need to know as a ‘citizen’ is that it is live in wrestling and a few other cases as Garty and Bohemian raised, and it hasn’t been stopped
> 
> the very fact that it hasn’t been stopped means there is something worthwhile for them to keep doing it.
> 
> if it was shitting the bed, it would be stopped
> 
> its sales, not charity


Because your entire point falls apart when it's noted that it's not a thing in major sports as if now. If it was that beneficial business wise advertisers and the network would be pushing it heavily in the major sports which get the biggest views and biggest demo numbers. We both agree that advertisers care about getting the most eyes on their ads. We both agree that the network wants to get the best money they can for ad space. My point is simply as of right now advertisers in the us must not deem PiP super effective be it live or on DVR yet or else they'd be lobbying to get more PiP ads up on stuff like the NFL and NBA due to them being ratings getters.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Because your entire point falls apart when it's noted that it's not a thing in major sports as if now. If it was that beneficial business wise advertisers and the network would be pushing it heavily in the major sports which get the biggest views and biggest demo numbers. We both agree that advertisers care about getting the most eyes on their ads. We both agree that the network wants to get the best money they can for ad space. My point is simply as of right now advertisers in the us must not deem PiP super effective be it live or on DVR yet or else they'd be lobbying to get more PiP ads up on stuff like the NFL and NBA due to them being ratings getters.


ok, and?

again, i never said it was effective

i’m just repeating myself - read one of the thousand posts i’ve written and take that as your reply. I’ve got no more attention left to give you on the subject


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

jan, 2021

c i t i z e n s









WSJ News Exclusive | Startup Pushes Picture-in-Picture Ads for Streaming TV


People who watch sports on traditional TV are well-acquainted with commercials that share the screen with the programming during lulls in the action, an attempt by networks to keep viewers’ attention during ad breaks.




www.wsj.com





_Various sports networks, meanwhile, have long deployed picture-in-picture ads during live TV broadcasts, which often get passed through to live feeds of those games on streaming platforms. Fox Sports, for example, has used the format—sometimes referred to as the “double box”—in its coverage of the National Football League, Major League Baseball and Nascar.

Transmit has deals with TV programmers such as ViacomCBS Inc., and its technology has been used for the National Hockey League, among scores of other, smaller broadcasters and sports leagues, the company said. ViacomCBS has also used the format to promote its own content during a live stream by its Nickelodeon network._


----------



## fabi1982

@RapShepard and @LifeInCattleClass can you please just make out and be friends again? My heart breaks seeing you two fight over fucking PIP. If not I will mustard the both of you the hard way!!


----------



## RapShepard

fabi1982 said:


> @RapShepard and @LifeInCattleClass can you please just make out and be friends again? My heart breaks seeing you two fight over fucking PIP. If not I will mustard the both of you the hard way!!


It's a forum folk debate it's no ill will I'm sure. He has a take a wrong one, but whatever lol


----------



## DaSlacker

This feud between RapShepard and LifeInCattleClass over PiP is the most out of nowhere feud since Booker and Edge went to war over a Japanese shampoo endorsement!


----------



## RapShepard

DaSlacker said:


> This feud between RapShepard and LifeInCattleClass over PiP is the most out of nowhere feud since Booker and Edge went to war over a Japanese shampoo endorsement!


Lmao the fact that was a Mania feud is wild lol


----------



## Dr. Middy

RapShepard said:


> Because your entire point falls apart when it's noted that it's not a thing in major sports as if now. If it was that beneficial business wise advertisers and the network would be pushing it heavily in the major sports which get the biggest views and biggest demo numbers. We both agree that advertisers care about getting the most eyes on their ads. We both agree that the network wants to get the best money they can for ad space. My point is simply as of right now advertisers in the us must not deem PiP super effective be it live or on DVR yet or else they'd be lobbying to get more PiP ads up on stuff like the NFL and NBA due to them being ratings getters.


Worth mentioning I think is that with sports like the NBA, NFL, MLB, and others, there are built in breaks in action so you don't really need to even use PiP at all, yet TV still rules each one of those sports and determining when the games are and how they progress.

One major sport which does use PiP is Nascar. I've been a fan for over a decade now and for years they've done what they call a "side by side" view where they air commercials in one window with sound while still showing the action on the track, since Nascar races obviously don't just stop at any point for there to be ad breaks. I always assumed wrestling as a type of predetermined sport just thinks that it works better to use PiP rather than have all their ads built into the live show and have nothing happening during every ad break.


----------



## RapShepard

Dr. Middy said:


> Worth mentioning I think is that with sports like the NBA, NFL, MLB, and others, there are built in breaks in action so you don't really need to even use PiP at all, yet TV still rules each one of those sports and determining when the games are and how they progress.
> 
> One major sport which does use PiP is Nascar. I've been a fan for over a decade now and for years they've done what they call a "side by side" view where they air commercials in one window with sound while still showing the action on the track, since Nascar races obviously don't just stop at any point for there to be ad breaks. I always assumed wrestling as a type of predetermined sport just thinks that it works better to use PiP rather than have all their ads built into the live show and have nothing happening during every ad break.


Yup I agree with you I said as much earlier about the built in ad breaks. Though admittedly it's surprising the money hungry leagues aren't going for side by side. The fan experience is already annoying with all the fucking commercial breaks anyway lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> @RapShepard and @LifeInCattleClass can you please just make out and be friends again? My heart breaks seeing you two fight over fucking PIP. If not I will mustard the both of you the hard way!!


lol, i am done arguing

@RapShepard can from here on argue with the reporter of that Wall Street Journal article

all the points i’ve been making seems confirmed in there anyway


----------



## Not Lying

@RapShepard 's entire point is that DVR +7 doesn't matter to advertisers (with his argument being "Major US sports don't use PIP hur dur") so how dare AEW fans disucss AEW beating WWE over a 7-day period by demo viewers 😂 What a crime 😂

Stop being so narrow minded and little bit bitter


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> @RapShepard 's entire point is that DVR +7 doesn't matter to advertisers (with his argument being "Major US sports don't use PIP hur dur") so how dare AEW fans disucss AEW beating WWE over a 7-day period by demo viewers  What a crime
> 
> Stop being so narrow minded and little bit bitter


And Rapshepard told no lie, if you're going to brag have concrete ground to stand on


----------



## Not Lying

RapShepard said:


> And Rapshepard told no lie, if you're going to brag have concrete ground to stand on


😂 😂 Nobody originally said this was posted becausee ohh this is very important now makes money, you got mad and assumed why a statistic that AEW beat WWE in the demo on DVR was posted. Don't get your panties twisted about it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I’ve actually changed my stance

i thought pip was of medium effectiveness - and i was all about the tv format and what they wanted to achieve

after reading that wall street journal article, now i think PIP is actually super effective and even more, now the +7 DVR ratings do matter

and going forward, i will post in this thread with this in mind


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

4 days and 17 pages of arguments holy moly


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I’ve actually changed my stance
> 
> i thought pip was of medium effectiveness - and i was all about the tv format and what they wanted to achieve
> 
> after reading that wall street journal article, now i think PIP is actually super effective and even more, now the +7 DVR ratings do matter
> 
> and going forward, i will post in this thread with this in mind


What was the 7+ ratings for Raw, Dynamite, SmackDown, and Rampage the week before Punk let's see his growth.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> What was the 7+ ratings for Raw, Dynamite, SmackDown, and Rampage the week before Punk let's see his growth.


no idea / we’ll have to look it up sometime


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> no idea / we’ll have to look it up sometime


Shits hard most I've seen cover soap opera wars and nightly news.wars. Only general 7+ only had broadcast.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

And people say wrestling fans are geeks 🙄


----------



## Prosper

I'm predicting 185K buys for All Out.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

AEW will get 1.2 maximum this week on Dynamite, maybe 1.3 if they're lucky. Probably between 1.1 and 1.2


----------



## A PG Attitude

I'll go 1.41 with a 0.53 rating for Dybamite this week


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> AEW will get 1.2 maximum this week on Dynamite, maybe 1.3 if they're lucky. Probably between 1.1 and 1.2


go buy the ppv and then come back, we’ll hear from you then


----------



## omaroo

I expect 1.1-1.2 million this week. Especially if you have all the elite, punk and bryan there.


----------



## Mr316

If the show is well booked, they can easily get 1.3 million Wednesday.


----------



## zkorejo

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1434878370140114945
Safe to say this ppv broke all the previous records.


----------



## Martyn

Hope they hit around 200k for this ppv. They truly deserve it. 

Dynamite this week has a chance to break the debut episode record. Theyve got great matches with Moxley vs Suzuki and Black vs Rhodes plus a follow up from the best ppv ever? with Punk, Danielson and Cole all in there. Let's see how it goes when they run on all cylinders.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I can’t think of anybody that paid their money for this event and felt cheated


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Martyn said:


> Hope they hit around 200k for this ppv. They truly deserve it.
> 
> Dynamite this week has a chance to break the debut episode record. Theyve got great matches with Moxley vs Suzuki and Black vs Rhodes plus a follow up from the best ppv ever? with Punk, Danielson and Cole all in there. Let's see how it goes when they run on all cylinders.


The best PPV ever? Really?

Admittedly I didn't see it but that's covering a whole heap of ground.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> The best PPV ever? Really?
> 
> Admittedly I didn't see it but that's covering a whole heap of ground.


That’s what a lot of people are saying

twitter had a lot of ‘best or better than wrestlemania X7’

take that for what you will


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> That’s what a lot of people are saying
> 
> twitter had a lot of ‘best or better than wrestlemania X7’
> 
> take that for what you will


*I'll say this is the best pay-per-view in recent memory. *


----------



## .christopher.

They're going to get another chance after the ppv hype this week on Dynamite.

Please, after the episodes the week after Sting and Punk's debut, learn from your mistakes and try. Don't start off with a joke that only appeals to a niche audience, and a over-the-hill baby-making veteran. Don't end the show with jobbers galore either.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

It might be the best AEW PPV ever so far. Though I'd need to think about it. After sleeping on it I feel more so that the second half of the show really dragged it down. Still an overall great PPV, but I'd need to look back on some prior AEW cards/shows to know for sure where I sit. It's almost definitely the best AEW PPV this year of the three that happened so far though.


----------



## Martyn

Chip Chipperson said:


> The best PPV ever? Really?
> 
> Admittedly I didn't see it but that's covering a whole heap of ground.


It's all subjective obviously, but you see those statements all over the internet.


----------



## Jbardo37

It’s the best PPV I have seen in years that’s one thing I can say, where it ranks of all time is hard to say right now, I would need to rewatch it.


----------



## DaSlacker

Best non WWE PPV I've seen since probably those 2005 TNA PPVs, when the X Division guys made having great ultra athletic matches seem ridiculously easy. 

Not a big fan of wrestling PPVs in this day and age because subscription services have made their cost seem archaic. 

Was worth the money though. 

What's even more amazing is that this show didn't even feature any of the following having a match: Archer, FTR, Cage, Starks, Hangman, Ethan Page, Black, Pac, Andrade, Sammy, Jungle Boy, Hager, Cody, Proud and Powerful, Kazarian.


----------



## Erik.

I predicted 170k about a month ago. 

Im sticking with that - shatters their previous record.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

They definitely need to bring their a game out wensday and capitalize on this buzz ...hopefully Bryan and punk both are there 


I'm expecting then to do an all time high ratings wise


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Chip Chipperson said:


> The best PPV ever? Really?
> 
> Admittedly I didn't see it but that's covering a whole heap of ground.


I feel it's all hyperbole because the smark favourites debuted and nearly all of the smark favourites are in one company. Was it the best AEW PPV? Sure you could say that? Best PPV of all time though? Wouldn't reach the top 40-50.


----------



## wrasslin_casual

So what are the actual numbers? We keep getting told this is going to break all sorts of records...


----------



## Martyn

Actual numbers wont be known for a while. It's always an estimate though, as US ppv buys are public, but Fite keeps their numbers private. 

Tony Khan admitted that it was the most watched ppv theyve ever had and their last record was at either 145 or 165k buys.


----------



## Martyn

DaSlacker said:


> Best non WWE PPV I've seen since probably those 2005 TNA PPVs, when the X Division guys made having great ultra athletic matches seem ridiculously easy.
> 
> Not a big fan of wrestling PPVs in this day and age because subscription services have made their cost seem archaic.
> 
> Was worth the money though.
> 
> What's even more amazing is that this show didn't even feature any of the following having a match: Archer, FTR, Cage, Starks, Hangman, Ethan Page, Black, Pac, Andrade, Sammy, Jungle Boy, Hager, Cody, Proud and Powerful, Kazarian.


Those 2005 TNA ppvs had been amazing. LockDown, Bound For Glory, Unbreakable and Turning Point that year really had been great, but those had been a 1 or 2 match shows with lack of hype, main stream attention, massive debuts and big crowds.


----------



## Not Lying

I have to admit I did enjoy the Luchas/Bucks match (but seriously, why the superkick bullshit, the double superkick spot were Penta and Rey hit each-other’s’foots was stupid, and the all 4 standing waiting to trade superkicks was stupid, but besides that, the match was brilliant).
Also gave me TNA vibes. Triple X vs AMW to be exact.


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *I'll say this is the best pay-per-view in recent memory. *


It really was an amazing PPV


PhenomenalOne11 said:


> I feel it's all hyperbole because the smark favourites debuted and nearly all of the smark favourites are in one company. Was it the best AEW PPV? Sure you could say that? Best PPV of all time though? Wouldn't reach the top 40-50.


Not enough bodybuilding wank material, eh?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Meltzer's on his bullshit again:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1435166518061506562
I do expect this to be their best selling pay-per-view, but he needs to stop making these declarations without a real number. @RapShepard see what you can find.*


----------



## rbl85

Where is the bullshit ?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Meltzer's on his bullshit again:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1435166518061506562
> I do expect this to be their best selling pay-per-view, but he needs to stop making these declarations without a real number. @RapShepard see what you can find.*


I don’t think this is a ‘brave’ call

TK said it was their biggest / and their prior biggest in US market was 145k


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> *Meltzer's on his bullshit again:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1435166518061506562
> I do expect this to be their best selling pay-per-view, but he needs to stop making these declarations without a real number. @RapShepard see what you can find.*





LifeInCattleClass said:


> I don’t think this is a ‘brave’ call
> 
> TK said it was their biggest / and their prior biggest in US market was 145k


I already predicted they do like 190k ish or something crazy like 300k+ Meltzer is super credible PPV buys wise. He's used as a PPV source for MMA journalist.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> I already predicted they do like 190k ish or something crazy like 300k+ Meltzer is super credible PPV buys wise. He's used as a PPV source for MMA journalist.


*But has he ever posted a real number for AEW? I always see you in this thread pointing that out after these declarations, and there's never a follow-up with an actual number. We just get some nonsense like "2nd biggest PPV outside of WWE since DoN 2019."*


----------



## rbl85

The Legit DMD said:


> *But has he ever posted a real number for AEW? I always see you in this thread pointing that out after these declarations, and there's never a follow-up with an actual number. We just get some nonsense like "2nd biggest PPV outside of WWE since DoN 2019."*


Because Fite tv never give their numbers (Khan have them of course)


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> *But has he ever posted a real number for AEW? I always see you in this thread pointing that out after these declarations, and there's never a follow-up with an actual number. We just get some nonsense like "2nd biggest PPV outside of WWE since DoN 2019."*


For AEW he always posts a number, Wrestlenomics has offered a correction on shows like Revolution, but AEW he always gives a pretty solid number. 

I've only pointed out in contrast he's never posted a concrete number for Impact Rebellion 2021 which is the PPV Kenny won the Impact title. He's said things like it 8x the previous PPV buys for a certain cable provider and things like that, but to my knowledge he never said a concrete number on how much having Kenny actually helped the PPV. I also don't remember hearing about what the PPV with Kenny vs Sami Callihan did either.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> For AEW he always posts a number, Wrestlenomics has offered a correction on shows like Revolution, but AEW he always gives a pretty solid number.
> 
> I've only pointed out in contrast he's never posted a concrete number for Impact Rebellion 2021 which is the PPV Kenny won the Impact title. He's said things like it 8x the previous PPV buys for a certain cable provider and things like that, but to my knowledge he never said a concrete number on how much having Kenny actually helped the PPV. I also don't remember hearing about what the PPV with Kenny vs Sami Callihan did either.


*Ah, it was Impact that he does it for. Thank you.*


----------



## A PG Attitude




----------



## Prosper

696K and a 0.30 demo for Rampage last Friday. Slightly off from 700k, not bad.


----------



## 3venflow

Interesting to see the even later night countdown special also make the top ten.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Yeah, rampage and countdown in the top 10 is solid


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prosper said:


> 696K and a 0.30 demo for Rampage last Friday. Slightly off from 700k, not bad.


*Yeah, 700k is fine.*


----------



## RapShepard

* Tracking Ratings With Rap Shepard*

Let's see the Rampage numbers without Punk

Rampage #1- 740k .31 demo

Dynamite 8/18- 975k .35 demo

Rampage #2 with Punk- 1.129 million .53 demo

Dynamite 8/25 with Punk- 1.172 million .48 demo

Rampage #3 no Punk- 722k .34 demo

Dynamite 9/1- 1.047 .37 demo

Rampage #4 with Punk- 696k .30 demo


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

696 is okay... but not really that good when it was the final show before a PPV, had Darby main eventing and had Punk advertised as well (albeit on commentary, but still).

As with every week, looking forward to seeing the quarters and how things shaped up.


----------



## DaSlacker

I a little surprised Warner don't start running AEW Dark and/or Elevation on a Monday or Tuesday night. 

The AEW brand is a natural draw with the 18-49 demo and even at 350,000 viewers it would be more than the reruns on TBS or TNT. But then you take into account the viewers already watching wrestling shows on those nights, who would potentially boost the viewership by simple back and forth channel changing.


----------



## A PG Attitude

DaSlacker said:


> I a little surprised Warner don't start running AEW Dark and/or Elevation on a Monday or Tuesday night.
> 
> The AEW brand is a natural draw with the 18-49 demo and even at 350,000 viewers it would be more than the reruns on TBS or TNT. But then you take into account the viewers already watching wrestling shows on those nights, who would potentially boost the viewership by simple back and forth channel changing.


They would be risking over exposing AEW if they did that. If you know AEW is on 4 days a week it makes it less must see. Having Dark and Elevation separates the hardcore viewers who will watch everything from the people who only watch on TV.


----------



## Geeee

Man Friday Night is really dead for cable. I can see why TNT wanted an AEW show there even in that awful timeslot


----------



## DammitChrist

Yea, I guess 600+ K viewers will be the norm for Rampage as long as they’re in that dead slot (assuming they continue to advertise compelling matches/segments each week).


----------



## omaroo

Hopefully they move Rampage to Saturdays and maybe 2 hours next year to boost ratings even more.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Legit DMD said:


> *Meltzer's on his bullshit again:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1435166518061506562
> I do expect this to be their best selling pay-per-view, but he needs to stop making these declarations without a real number. @RapShepard see what you can find.*


Best number for a non WWE PPV since 1999?

So pretty much AEW beat dying days of WCW, TNA and ROH?


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Chip Chipperson said:


> Best number for a non WWE PPV since 1999?
> 
> So pretty much AEW beat dying days of WCW, TNA and ROH?


Yeah. TNA's peak was about 60K. ROH's....no idea but it probably came nowhere near that. WCW's lowest buyrate in 1999 was around 130K at Fall Brawl.

TNA couldn't ever get their audience to buy anything lol. They peaked in either 2006 or 2007 in that regard! Bound for Glory 2006 and that one Angle/Joe match.

It's probably easier to say 2000 since WCW only had like 2 PPVs even crack 100K that year, Spring Stampede and Bash at the Beach.
ECW's PPV in December did around 100K as well because people thought it'd be their last show.


----------



## Not Lying

Chip Chipperson said:


> Best number for a non WWE PPV since 1999?
> 
> So pretty much AEW beat dying days of WCW, TNA and ROH?



Well weren’t you and co always clamoring how even the dying days of WCW had higher ratings than AEW (like double the viewers)?

AEW was able to convert a much bigger % of its fan base to buy the PPV. Ergo, their product is good 😁😉


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Definition of Technician said:


> Well weren’t you and co always clamoring how even the dying days of WCW had higher ratings than AEW (like double the viewers)?
> 
> AEW was able to convert a much bigger % of its fan base to buy the PPV. Ergo, their product is good 😁😉


September 9th, 2000 Nitro Rating: 3.6

Dynamite's Last Rating: 1.0

---

So yeah, more than double for Nitro...Good for AEW for being able to sell PPV's though we can never say they don't know how to sell one or that the audience won't support them on PPV. Their PPV business model is a success.


----------



## fabi1982

The Definition of Technician said:


> Well weren’t you and co always clamoring how even the dying days of WCW had higher ratings than AEW (like double the viewers)?
> 
> AEW was able to convert a much bigger % of its fan base to buy the PPV. Ergo, their product is good 😁😉


Wouldnt it be a better proof when next PPVs numbers match the all out numbers? Because even you should know that the AO number is basically Punk and people expecting Bryan to return. So they could have just that and beat their own record still.


----------



## Not Lying

fabi1982 said:


> Wouldnt it be a better proof when next PPVs numbers match the all out numbers? Because even you should know that the AO number is basically Punk and people expecting Bryan to return. So they could have just that and beat their own record still.


It would indeed be a better proof, I’ll wait ^^
But what we got so far is also good evidence 😁


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Wouldnt it be a better proof when next PPVs numbers match the all out numbers? Because even you should know that the AO number is basically Punk and people expecting Bryan to return. So they could have just that and beat their own record still.


you’re right brother

but we work with what we have


----------



## DaSlacker

Trying to work it out but I think WCW was down to about 3.5 million viewers by mid 2000. AEW's is nearly 1 million but its actual reach will be higher due to DVR and traditional cable drying up.

Correct me if wrong but WCW PPVs weren't available outside ot US, Canada. Plus they were only available to cable/satellite subscribers. AEW are available all over the world via different means.

The mainstream wrestling PPV market was running 30+ events at $40. So the market was over saturated. WWE is selling their shows at a bargain price and ROH, Impact, NWA are ultra niche.

Still, AEW appeases its built in audience enough and has gained respect by building a killer roster. Plus turning divisive figures like The Elite heel and keeping Janela, Stunt on Dark. WCW was more concerned with getting anybody to watch their shows and didn't care about how the format changes impacted long time supporters. Same with TNA. Hardcore fans were shouting fire Russo - it fell on deaf ears. Then Hogan - on air - patronised them about the six sided ring. You lack respect and fail to convert eyeballs into paying customers. You lose.


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you’re right brother
> 
> but we work with what we have


You´re right brother. But honestly this would be the first real dissapointment they have to go through if they dont beat their existing record, because this would really show throwing all the money at the new guys doesnt reflect in new fans


----------



## A PG Attitude

Chip Chipperson said:


> September 9th, 2000 Nitro Rating: 3.6
> 
> Dynamite's Last Rating: 1.0
> 
> ---
> 
> So yeah, more than double for Nitro...Good for AEW for being able to sell PPV's though we can never say they don't know how to sell one or that the audience won't support them on PPV. Their PPV business model is a success.


Are you really comparing TV ratings 21 years apart? Moronic.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> You´re right brother. But honestly this would be the first real dissapointment they have to go through if they dont beat their existing record, because this would really show throwing all the money at the new guys doesnt reflect in new fans


I wonder how they will maintain this though - I mean, I don’t think if they did 200k buys this time and 175k buys for Full Gear they will be too disappointed

will that be seen as a failure? I guess it depends who you talk to

If its lower than their average before all this of 115k or so - then yeah, that will be a dissapointment - but I don’t think we’ll be going down to that after All Out - IMO of course

lucky thing is - we only have time standing between us and the answer


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I wonder how they will maintain this though - I mean, I don’t think if they did 200k buys this time and 175k buys for Full Gear they will be too disappointed
> 
> will that be seen as a failure? I guess it depends who you talk to
> 
> If its lower than their average before all this of 115k or so - then yeah, that will be a dissapointment - but I don’t think we’ll be going down to that after All Out - IMO of course
> 
> lucky thing is - we only have time standing between us and the answer


I really think a success would be your prediction in falling "a little" from AO to FG. It would be a massive thing to keep the AO numbers. I think as long as FG numbers are as higher than the ones from last PPV this should also count as success, as they have established new fans. I just already hate the parading from people when they see the AO number not seeing why


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> I really think a success would be your prediction in falling "a little" from AO to FG. It would be a massive thing to keep the AO numbers. I think as long as FG numbers are as higher than the ones from last PPV this should also count as success, as they have established new fans. I just already hate the parading from people when they see the AO number not seeing why


its IMO easy to see why AO is massive and that FG might be down

I can't see AO numbers being their new 'standard' - unless they do a bang-up job in the next 3 months. Punk's 2nd match will be less of a 'sell' and Danielson would be wrestling already before this

but I 100% think it will be above prior PPVs to this - we'll see


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> its IMO easy to see why AO is massive and that FG might be down
> 
> I can't see AO numbers being their new 'standard' - unless they do a bang-up job in the next 3 months. Punk's 2nd match will be less of a 'sell' and Danielson would be wrestling already before this
> 
> but I 100% think it will be above prior PPVs to this - we'll see


And until then, have some mustard


----------



## Fearless Viper

What do you guys expect this week's dynamite ratings will be?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> And until then, have some mustard


lol.... I think I will

I am in cape Town at the moment, and there is an actual Brauhaus right across from me, with Eisbein and everything

think I will go have a Dunkel draft and some good food 

with lots of mustard


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

lol… this is winter


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Fearless Viper said:


> What do you guys expect this week's dynamite ratings will be?


1.2ish maybe?


----------



## Dark Emperor

Pentagon Senior said:


> 1.2ish maybe?


Their 2nd/3rd highest rating ever? Even Punk debut couldn't get that. There's a lot less buzz compared to Punk return.

I think at best it will be be similar to Punk Dynamite debut at 1.1m. Anything above will be impressive.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Chip Chipperson said:


> Best number for a non WWE PPV since 1999?
> 
> So pretty much AEW beat dying days of WCW, TNA and ROH?


Meltzer has always lumped AEW's domestic and worldwide buys together when comparing to Old PPVs. This is why the numbers look impressive when comparing to old TNA & WCW buys. WCW only really had domestic PPV's so cant really be compared. 

There is now a lot more access for anyone to order AEW PPV's worldwide and at less than half the price of the domestic PPVs. So obviously the overall numbers are better. 

All that matters at the end of the day is how profitable these PPV's are. I think so far, AEW's are more profitable than WCW's even with the constant talent acquisitions


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Dark Emperor said:


> Their 2nd/3rd highest rating ever? Even Punk debut couldn't get that. There's a lot less buzz compared to Punk return.
> 
> I think at best it will be be similar to Punk Dynamite debut at 1.1m. Anything above will be impressive.


Don't necessarily disagree, anywhere between 1.1-1.2 would be very good IMO but 1.1 is good too. 

Wasn't it 1.17 for Punk's first episode though, do close to 1.2? Was just thinking this is post ppv show and there was a lot of buzz following the event, Danielson's first show and still some possible Punk effect... 

But yeh 1.2 or above would be more than acceptable


----------



## Dark Emperor

Pentagon Senior said:


> Don't necessarily disagree, anywhere between 1.1-1.2 would be very good IMO but 1.1 is good too.
> 
> Wasn't it 1.17 for Punk's first episode though, do close to 1.2? Was just thinking this is post ppv show and there was a lot of buzz following the event, Danielson's first show and still some possible Punk effect...
> 
> But yeh 1.2 or above would be more than acceptable


Yh Punk debut was 1.17. They've only hit 1.20 or more twice. First was their first ever show then next was the first week NXT moved.

There have got 1.1 a bunch of times. But cant get over the line of regular 1.2 or more. I think Bryan is the last big star they will get that can move the needle for a while. The others are on secure contracts with WWE or in Hollywood. So this rating is actually quite important.


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol.... I think I will
> 
> I am in cape Town at the moment, and there is an actual Brauhaus right across from me, with Eisbein and everything
> 
> think I will go have a Dunkel draft and some good food
> 
> with lots of mustard


Haha awesome, Eisbein with Mustard is just delicious!! You SA´s and your German beerhouses, but then again there is history  Have a very good one my friend.


----------



## ElTerrible

I´ll make a bold prediction and say they´ll do a massive number. Lots of Punk fans consumed his return via social media outlets and with less interest in the AEW product itself. Therefore his impressive social media numbers that were 10 times higher than the actual TV show numbers. A large percentage of these people seem to have shared/watched the PPV for Punk´s return and obviously AEW knocked the whole thing out of the park. You paid for that show, had a watch party with friends or went to a sports bar, you wanna watch on Wednesday. These old lapsed fans also got to see familiar faces like Sting, Christian, Jericho and Moxley and some amazing new talent. Some of them might not even have expected Bryan. I think these people will tune in on Wednesday to see the whole PPV fallout. The adertised card is strong. I say they´ll do over 1.3 on average, peak at 1.5.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Dark Emperor said:


> Meltzer has always lumped AEW's domestic and worldwide buys together when comparing to Old PPVs. This is why the numbers look impressive when comparing to old TNA & WCW buys. WCW only really had domestic PPV's so cant really be compared.
> 
> There is now a lot more access for anyone to order AEW PPV's worldwide and at less than half the price of the domestic PPVs. So obviously the overall numbers are better.
> 
> All that matters at the end of the day is how profitable these PPV's are. I think so far, AEW's are more profitable than WCW's even with the constant talent acquisitions


Agree with most if that - a really compelling, long term storyline between two or more of the biggest stars is the biggest chance they have to move the needle going forwards. And even that would have to happen over time


----------



## yeahright2

Ratings for last Fridays episode of Rampage.. 
AEW Ratings prediction game
@3venflow nailed it again..

I don´t think anyone really expected them to keep the numbers at Punk debut level, so 693K seems decent.


----------



## bmtrocks

A PG Attitude said:


> Are you really comparing TV ratings 21 years apart? Moronic.


Yep this is a bad comparison. TV audiences are down tremendously from 1999. People watch products like WWE and AEW more on YouTube than they do on television nowadays. Its as simple as that.


----------



## 3venflow

Another W 😍

I'll go 1.21m for Dynamite this week and 760k for Rampage.


----------



## yeahright2

3venflow said:


> Another W 😍
> 
> I'll go 1.21m for Dynamite this week and 760k for Rampage.


The problem is that you don´t have enough competition.. I encourage EVERYONE to join

AEW Ratings prediction game

and shut you up 

Disclaimer; Everyone, please use the ratings game thread, I might miss it if you write predictions in this thread.


----------



## 3venflow

Dynamite

Viewership: 1.319m
18-49: 0.53

They beat RAW in the key demo. It's finally happened.

Also second highest total viewership in Dynamite history.


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## RubberbandGoat

Omg omg. Give Bryan the title now. Difference maker


----------



## Garty

Whoanma said:


>


Don't worry, the boo-birds will be here soon enough!


----------



## Whoanma

3venflow said:


> Dynamite
> 
> Viewership: 1.319m
> 18-49: 0.53
> 
> They beat RAW in the key demo. It's finally happened.
> 
> Also second highest total viewership in Dynamite history.


----------



## Chelsea

Dynamite to Raw:










Great ratings, bay bay!


----------



## RapShepard

Good shit on the demo win


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Damn. ..and Monday night football isn't here yet..raw did a 1.4 this year its possible for them to pass views


----------



## Jbardo37

That’s great!


----------



## Jbardo37

That’s great!


----------



## Whoanma

Garty said:


> Don't worry, the boo-birds will be here soon enough!


Expecting some…?


----------



## A PG Attitude

'AEW will never grow their audience' lmao


----------



## .christopher.

Bryan Danielson, bay-bay.

I hope they keep their momentum.


----------



## FromPartsUnkown

AEW catching up to WWE 👀👀👀


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Might need to put the strap on Bryan asap


----------



## EmbassyForever

Dayum


----------



## Jnewt

Wow that is impressive. And Monday Night Football hasn't even kicked in yet. Gonna be really interesting to see how things play out this fall.


----------



## sim8

Really can't wait for the quarter hours. I hope they were able to maintain the viewership throughout the show, without any big drops


----------



## RapShepard

* Tracking Ratings With Rap Shepard*

Let's see the Rampage numbers without Punk

Rampage #1- 740k .31 demo

Dynamite 8/18- 975k .35 demo

Rampage #2 with Punk- 1.129 million .53 demo

Dynamite 8/25 with Punk- 1.172 million .48 demo

Rampage #3 no Punk- 722k .34 demo

Dynamite 9/ - 1.05 .37 demo

Rampage #4 with Punk- 696k .30 demo

Dynamite 9/8- with Punk, Bryan, and Cole- 1.31 million .53 demo


----------



## CMPunkRock316

No Monday Night Football Excuse either.

Just hope they can continue to grow or at least stay around this 1.3 Mil and .50 + Demo


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Adam Cole. I can’t stand the guy myself, but I have to concede he’s got a hella loyal fan base. Considering NXT took a bit of a nosedive this week, I have to think he’s at least partially responsible for this little bump in the numbers. And of course the curiosity factor over how they’re going to use Bryan, who I think is easily going to turn into the hottest talent they’ve grabbed yet.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Dang ...aew did more in demos than nxt had in Total views...gonna be interesting to see the quarterly break downs


----------



## RubberbandGoat

This was all Bryan. No one else gets credit. His debut was the difference. Fuck Hangman, Bryan gets the title


----------



## Botchy SinCara

RubberbandGoat said:


> This was all Bryan. No one else gets credit. His debut was the difference. Fuck Hangman, Bryan gets the title


Yeah ..I hate to say it but the younger guys can wait .they have a future but the number one priority right now should be building the brand and use guys like Bryan while you have them


----------



## RapShepard

RubberbandGoat said:


> This was all Bryan. No one else gets credit. His debut was the difference. Fuck Hangman, Bryan gets the title


Bryan, Punk, and a well received All Out get the credit


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Botchy SinCara said:


> Yeah ..I hate to say it but the younger guys can wait .they have a future but the number one priority right now should be building the brand and use guys like Bryan while you have them


Yep. Bryan just obliterated the ratings. He’s a draw! I love this.


----------



## Jbardo37

To think we have had people on this forum saying Bryan is not a draw.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*They did it. They hit the 1.3. THIS is moving the needle. Bravo. Forget Hangman. Push Bryan now.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1436056172742815745*


----------



## Mr316

Just a matter of time before they beat Raw regularly.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Jbardo37 said:


> To think we have had people on this forum saying Bryan is not a draw.


He’s a huge draw. They announce his signing before All Out and now they’re set to have the most PPV buys in the company ever and now they just beat Raw in the demo on his debut on Dynamite. Punk didn’t even bring these numbers


----------



## RapShepard

.75 men 18-49


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Huh…. Look at that.

that is pretty nice

well done AEW


----------



## rich110991

Get in!!!


----------



## fabi1982

I‘m interested how Punk feels, now that he sees what a real draw looks like


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Bryan being the top face going against a faction is just so money


----------



## Mr316

The NY show in 2 weeks should be very interesting.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Hopefully all those ridiculous DVR excuses can die for good now that we have recent tangible proof of 1.3 million people willing to watch their TV show live. This is what happens when you put on an excellent product. If people want to watch you, they'll watch you. Period.*


----------



## Prized Fighter

RapShepard said:


> .75 men 18-49


They were .48 higher then the next closest show in the male 18-49. Wow!


----------



## Fearless Viper

I was close 1.3M. Question is can they maintain this momentum? Remain to be seen.


----------



## Joe Gill

the thing about cm punk fans is that its been 7 years and many moved on and are no longer in the habit of watching weekly wrestling. Bryan fans are still actively watching wrestling...so its easier for them to transition into watching Dynamite.
When you compare the actual products Raw vs Dynamite its pretty clear Dynamite is the better show so it was inevitable they would start beating them in the key demo. If AEW can continue this momentum and ratings,combined with more licensing opportunities and video games... AEW could one day become a billion dollar company. TK is proving a lot of people wrong right now.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

The Legit DMD said:


> *Hopefully all those ridiculous DVR excuses can die for good now that we have recent tangible proof of 1.3 million people willing to watch their TV show live. This is what happens when you put on an excellent product. If people want to watch you, they'll watch you. Period.*


Almost feel bad for Hangman. Ha ha not really. Bryan is going to make this company legit


----------



## Chip Chipperson

It's a great rating but they need to follow up. Luckily from what I saw most of the show looked pretty good which should mean repeat business.



RubberbandGoat said:


> Omg omg. Give Bryan the title now. Difference maker


Yeah, this lends credibility to the debate I was having with @Firefromthegods earlier. Put your belt on the guys who are going to bring TV ratings and sell tickets.

Chuck the belt on Hangman and watch the ratings go back to 900k - 1 million.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Hopefully all those ridiculous DVR excuses can die for good now that we have recent tangible proof of 1.3 million people willing to watch their TV show live. This is what happens when you put on an excellent product. If people want to watch you, they'll watch you. Period.*


dvr +7 is the most important metric


----------



## Geert Wilders

3venflow said:


> Dynamite
> 
> Viewership: 1.319m
> 18-49: 0.53
> 
> They beat RAW in the key demo. It's finally happened.
> 
> Also second highest total viewership in Dynamite history.












Very impressive. 

Back to 1 million next week? But it shows that the potential is there. Give us unmissable content and people will follow. This show was good, but not unmissable.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Legit though, forget raw - them decimating MTV Challenge feels so good


----------



## Joe Gill

Prized Fighter said:


> They were .48 higher then the next closest show in the male 18-49. Wow!


they are killing it with younger male fans... now they need to focus a bit more on female fans...need to bring in a few more pretty boys. The Kenny Omegas and Daniel Bryans are mostly appealing to male fans.


----------



## Basvicii

Brilliant news! Hopefully the keep the momentum going and out a good card on for next week to get the new viewers to stick!


----------



## ClintDagger

I think it shows that Bryan is the only guy so far that can bring in new fans to AEW. But had you told me that AEW would bring in Punk & Bryan in a relatively short period of time I would have thought close to 2MM was a possibility and 1.5MM is the floor. So I do think there’s a big chunk of WWE fans that are WWE or bust (with more and more becoming bust as time goes on).


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Joe Gill said:


> they are killing it with younger male fans... now they need to focus a bit more on female fans...need to bring in a few more pretty boys. The Kenny Omegas and Daniel Bryans are mostly appealing to male fans.


*Or...they could simply improve the women's division and feature them more.*


----------



## rich110991

I’m literally addicted to AEW.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rich110991 said:


> I’m literally addicted to AEW.


Arthur ashe show is gonna bang


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Good shit pal! 

Danielson deserves a lot of credit for sure, but I'd say the overall buzz around the success of All Out and the cumulative effect of Punk too played a major role. Just need to maintain momentum now even if they take a little dip next week (which would be expected).


----------



## 3venflow

rich110991 said:


> I’m literally addicted to AEW.


Even Dark is starting to look less skippable. I kinda wish they had more unrestricted ad-free shows as there is so much potential for great matches but only on the PPVs do guys really get the chance to go all out (no pun intended). And they only have four PPVs per year.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*The women's segment was only below Bryan and Cole. I keep telling y'all if the women's division is fire, you get way more viewers.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1436069946761564165*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *The women's segment was only below Bryan and Cole. I keep telling y'all if the women's division is fire, you get way more viewers.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1436069946761564165*


did the bucks tank the ratings this week like you always say?


----------



## Prized Fighter

Joe Gill said:


> they are killing it with younger male fans... now they need to focus a bit more on female fans...need to bring in a few more pretty boys. The Kenny Omegas and Daniel Bryans are mostly appealing to male fans.


I would have to check previous weeks, but I would bet Bryan actually increases the female fan viewership. For a smaller guy, he is actually in great shape and his time on Total Bellas probably helps as well.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> did the bucks tank the ratings this week like you always say?


*Nah, they got carried by two major debuts, but it's no surprise that you would choose to ignore that.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Prized Fighter said:


> I would have to check previous weeks, but I would bet Bryan actually increases the female fan viewership. For a smaller guy, he is actually in great shape and his time on Total Bellas probably helps as well.


oh, this is the highest their female fans have ever been

they never do 0.3 on f 18-49

unheard of - the Danielson effect


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Nah, they got carried by two major debuts, but it's no surprise that you would choose to ignore that.*


yes or no only please sir  🤣


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Legit DMD said:


> *The women's segment was only below Bryan and Cole. I keep telling y'all if the women's division is fire, you get way more viewers.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1436069946761564165*


Actually the rating is always high at the start of the hour and has been for decades. Not saying the women aren't a draw just saying this might be why the women are so high, their segment started at 9.


----------



## Joe Gill

The Legit DMD said:


> *The women's segment was only below Bryan and Cole. I keep telling y'all if the women's division is fire, you get way more viewers.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1436069946761564165*


now they just need some top notch booking... keep people interested in a kenny omega vs daniel bryan match at full gear for the title...its a money feud if TK plays his cards right.


----------



## izhack111

Adam Cole is a draw Bay Bay


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Chip Chipperson said:


> Actually the rating is always high at the start of the hour and has been for decades. Not saying the women aren't a draw just saying this might be why the women are so high, their segment started at 9.


*I posted several charts showing Britt's segments doing the highest ratings. There's a dedicated audience to women's wrestling that will consistently increase viewers if they treat the division right.*


Joe Gill said:


> now they just need some top notch booking... keep people interested in a kenny omega vs daniel bryan match at full gear for the title...its a money feud if TK plays his cards right.


*And Kenny needs to lose here.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1436073543662546946
the draw bucks carrying the segment 
dvr +7 numbers gonna be huge bro!


----------



## Joe Gill

also not having that piece of shit excalibur commentating also helped as well... the show is much better with tazz on commentary... leave excalibur for the indy style internet shows like dark and elevation.


----------



## Jbardo37

AEW has gone from bouncing around 800k/900k to breaking 1.1mil on a regular basis. It’s good progress.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Joe Gill said:


> also not having that piece of shit excalibur commentating also helped as well... the show is much better with tazz on commentary... leave excalibur for the indy style internet shows like dark and elevation.


*Cornette would be so happy about that.*


----------



## Joe Gill

The Legit DMD said:


> *I posted several charts showing Britt's segments doing the highest ratings. There's a dedicated audience to women's wrestling that will consistently increase viewers if they treat the division right.
> 
> And Kenny needs to lose here.*


yes kenny has had a long run... give Bryan a run as champion... they could have an epic match at full gear... could set up punk vs bryan in 2022. So many possibilities right now for AEW now that they have some legit stars


----------



## Alright_Mate

So that pretty much tells us the two biggest draws in AEW are Bryan Danielson & Jamie Hayter’s booty.

Not surprising.


----------



## Erik.

Brilliant numbers all round. 

Riho, the true draw.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Alright_Mate said:


> So that pretty much tells us the two biggest draws in AEW are Bryan Danielson & Jamie Hayter’s booty.
> 
> Not surprising.


if only we could use photoshop to combine the two


----------



## Erik.

Lol at people laughing at Jericho when he said they'd beat Raw in the demos in the next few months. 

Only to be proven right, like a week later.


----------



## Fearless Viper

I still think that had Tony promoted hard Punk's return on Dynamite they could have beat their debut numbers.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Every week or few weeks RAW has record low ratings, whilst every week or few weeks AEW experiences some new record.

Change is imminent.


----------



## Whoanma

Erik. said:


> Riho, the true draw.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

The fact that the show climbed higher through out the night is damn impressed


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Not a coincidence they get huge numbers when Bryan shows up


----------



## Erik.

Whoanma said:


> View attachment 108072


Rihos return to TV and its the second highest ratings in the companies history. 

The episode with a bigger rating? Riho wins the women's title. 

Believe it.


----------



## omaroo

Amazing rating. Awesome AEW.

I do think now 1 million every week is there for them.

1.1-1.5 million range every week could possibly become the norm.

Booking is the absolute key going forward.


----------



## DammitChrist

LifeInCattleClass said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1436073543662546946
> the draw bucks carrying the segment
> dvr +7 numbers gonna be huge bro!


That's funny because I remember being repeatedly told for months that Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks "KILL" the ratings on a weekly basis 😂 😂

Anyway, the Elite and Bryan Danielson now have the honor of being involved in 1 of the most watched segments in AEW history.

The Elite are here to stay, and they aren't going anywhere any time soon (thankfully).

Omega and the Bucks also had the 2 best matches (arguably) on All Out, so take that as you will


----------



## elo

That 3rd quarter was really easy to save too, Punk should have stayed out there on commentary to go back and forth with Taz and to put over Martin and Hobbs.


----------



## Whoanma

Erik. said:


> Rihos return to TV and its the second highest ratings in the companies history.
> 
> The episode with a bigger rating? Riho wins the women's title.
> 
> Believe it.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Alright_Mate said:


> So that pretty much tells us the two biggest draws in AEW are Bryan Danielson & Jamie Hayter’s booty.
> 
> Not surprising.


@Emmanuelle * Big Booty Becky strikes again!*


----------



## elo

omaroo said:


> Amazing rating. Awesome AEW.
> 
> I do think now 1 million every week is there for them.
> 
> 1.1-1.5 million range every week could possibly become the norm.
> 
> Booking is the absolute key going forward.


Show gets moved to Saturday in the middle of October......it'll hurt ALOT but they are at least going live in front of an audience for the shows this time.


----------



## .christopher.

Mr316 said:


> The NY show in 2 weeks should be very interesting.


Should be Dynamites best episode ever if it lives up to the hype.


ClintDagger said:


> I think it shows that Bryan is the only guy so far that can bring in new fans to AEW. But had you told me that AEW would bring in Punk & Bryan in a relatively short period of time I would have thought close to 2MM was a possibility and 1.5MM is the floor. So I do think there’s a big chunk of WWE fans that are WWE or bust (with more and more becoming bust as time goes on).


I think expecting 2m was unrealistic. I expected around 1.5 but, even though they didn't even reach that, what they're doing is relatively impressive.

They keep this up, and the WWE keep running off their fans, it won't be long until they meet in the middle.


The Legit DMD said:


> *Or...they could simply improve the women's division and feature them more.*


I think he was talking about women viewers alone and I believe it was shown that the majority of women who are up for watching some wrestling don't really care about the women.


----------



## ShadowCounter

RubberbandGoat said:


> Not a coincidence they get huge numbers when Bryan shows up


Weren't you just saying Bryan's pop was terrible and he should be concerned?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

.christopher. said:


> I think he was talking about women viewers alone and I believe it was shown that the majority of women who are up for watching some wrestling don't really care about the women.


*I know what he was talking about and I meant what I said. Female viewers will increase once the women's division as a whole (not just Britt) is treated like a big deal.*


----------



## RainmakerV2

Now they need to put the petal to the floor. No more of these Dynamites that look like Dark Elevation cards. Put the stars on every week.


----------



## RLT1981

AEW beats Raw in the demo!!!

I knew they would be beating Raw soon if this don't wake Vince up nothing will.


----------



## 3venflow

Blood and Guts 2022

AEW All-Stars vs Super Elite Plus

Hangman Page, Jon Moxley, Bryan Danielson, CM Punk & Darby Allin vs. Kenny Omega, Cody Rhodes, Adam Cole & The Young Bucks

Now that'd do a big rating.


----------



## .christopher.

The Legit DMD said:


> *I know what he was talking about and I meant what I said. Female viewers will increase once the women's division as a whole (not just Britt) is treated like a big deal.*


I'll be surprised if it does.

If you're looking to attract casual women, the draw for them is and always has been attractive men.


----------



## Borko

Holy shit Danielson's segment drew 1.45 million viewers!!! Put the damn belt on him in 2 weeks


----------



## RubberbandGoat

ShadowCounter said:


> Weren't you just saying Bryan's pop was terrible and he should be concerned?


His pop was bad but he drives business obviously


----------



## Geeee

LifeInCattleClass said:


> dvr +7 is the most important metric


I doubt it because when you watch something on DVR, you can skip the ads.

Anyway, Holy shit! Beating Raw in the demo!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Fearless Viper said:


> I still think that had Tony promoted hard Punk's return on Dynamite they could have beat their debut numbers.


Pretty much. Punk nearly doubled what will likely be Rampage's average.

Still, this is an impressive number. Bryan certainly brought in the viewers, and is another game changer along with Punk. Great numbers all around, and the fact the lowest quarter was higher than most recent Dynamites average viewership is really impressive.

When the Bryan effect wears off a bit though, we'll see what they settle at. I'm guessing that won't really change much, except maybe slightly higher highs and higher lows (so in the 1.05-1.2 million range). Which is really good by the way.

Unless they really start gaining momentum, then the sky's the limit.


----------



## ElTerrible

ElTerrible said:


> I´ll make a bold prediction and say they´ll do a massive number. Lots of Punk fans consumed his return via social media outlets and with less interest in the AEW product itself. Therefore his impressive social media numbers that were 10 times higher than the actual TV show numbers. A large percentage of these people seem to have shared/watched the PPV for Punk´s return and obviously AEW knocked the whole thing out of the park. You paid for that show, had a watch party with friends or went to a sports bar, you wanna watch on Wednesday. These old lapsed fans also got to see familiar faces like Sting, Christian, Jericho and Moxley and some amazing new talent. Some of them might not even have expected Bryan. I think these people will tune in on Wednesday to see the whole PPV fallout. The adertised card is strong. I say they´ll do over 1.3 on average, peak at 1.5.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

ElTerrible said:


>


Good call and I agree. It's the momentum of Punk then Bryan but capped off with a hot ppv that drew new viewers and created a buzz... 

Good work AEdub


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Geeee said:


> I doubt it because when you watch something on DVR, you can skip the ads.
> 
> Anyway, Holy shit! Beating Raw in the demo!


nope, its proven

ask @RapShepard and read 50 pages of this thread in the last week 

(or ignore my bad joke - its easier  )


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> nope, its proven
> 
> ask @RapShepard and read 50 pages of this thread in the last week
> 
> (or ignore my bad joke - its easier  )


I just got a new robotic hand we can go


----------



## Jay Trotter

fabi1982 said:


> I‘m interested how Punk feels, now that he sees what a real draw looks like


Woah. Woah. Pump the brakes.

Punk's debut on the secondary show in Rampage at 10pm on a Friday went from a 0.30 to a 0.53 in the demo. No PPV fallout episode either with multiple big debuts to spike the numbers. That is slightly better than Bryan's debut on the flagship show of 0.52 in the demo at 8pm on a Wednesday night. Also, Punk's segment in that crappy timeslot did 1.341 million viewers. It was literally all him to get eyeballs on that Rampage. Can't say the same for Bryan on Dynamite. He was on a stacked card with higher drawing potential. If Punk debuted on Dynamite instead of Rampage, it would've been their highest ratings ever.


----------



## Geeee

LifeInCattleClass said:


> nope, its proven
> 
> ask @RapShepard and read 50 pages of this thread in the last week
> 
> (or ignore my bad joke - its easier  )


Mostly I hate this thread because it draws a lot of flies, so I'll take your word for it LOL


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *Hopefully all those ridiculous DVR excuses can die for good now that we have recent tangible proof of 1.3 million people willing to watch their TV show live. This is what happens when you put on an excellent product. If people want to watch you, they'll watch you. Period.*


Nah, you're completely wrong here.

The DVR will always (and rightfully) be brought up in here since it's also a valid explanation of how people (who are previously unavailable to watch the show live) can watch Dynamite or Rampage. Hell, even my own cousin just told me that he's unable to watch the shows live due to his sleep schedule and due to having an early work shift. That's just one example too.

I wasn't even available to watch the first 15 minutes of Dynamite because I clock out each Wednesday night at 8 PM EST, and I don't come home until 8:15 PM EST. I have to watch the 1st matches/segments via online streams during the commercial breaks just to keep up with the WHOLE shows.

Quit being obnoxiously blind by dismissing our valid explanations for folks watching AEW via DVR as just mere "excuses" (as if we didn't hear that nonsense the first time). The valid reasons about DVR thankfully won't quiet down, and they absolutely shouldn't ever die down just because you can't respect the fact that there are various viewing habits.

Your hatred for DVR is just an (actual) excuse to downplay those numbers.

Quit pretending that you're somehow right, and stop telling folks to shut up about the DVR numbers. They're relevant to this thread. We won't stop talking about them.


----------



## DammitChrist

LifeInCattleClass said:


> did the bucks tank the ratings this week like you always say?


Don't even bother 😂

Admitting he's wrong is a lost cause at this point. 

We obviously know that the Young Bucks "killing" the weekly viewership is a debunked myth


----------



## DammitChrist

elo said:


> Show gets moved to Saturday in the middle of October......it'll hurt ALOT but they are at least going live in front of an audience for the shows this time.


I'll be attending that show in Miami with my cousin!

I hope that episode will be fun as hell; especially now that CM Punk, Bryan Danielson, and Adam Cole are all elite now 

It'll be my 1st time attending an AEW show in-person too


----------



## ShadowCounter

RainmakerV2 said:


> Now they need to put the petal to the floor. No more of these Dynamites that look like Dark Elevation cards. Put the stars on every week.


Not gonna happen cause A) They rotate talent and B) They want to showcase new and different younger talent mixed in with the "stars".


----------



## DammitChrist

3venflow said:


> Blood and Guts 2022
> 
> AEW All-Stars vs Super Elite Plus
> 
> Hangman Page, Jon Moxley, Bryan Danielson, CM Punk & Darby Allin vs. Kenny Omega, Cody Rhodes, Adam Cole & The Young Bucks
> 
> Now that'd do a big rating.


Hell, I'd even book a rematch between Britt Baker vs Thunder Rosa on that same event too.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Borko said:


> Holy shit Danielson's segment drew 1.45 million viewers!!! Put the damn belt on him in 2 weeks


Danielson/Omega is the biggest match in the company. Bar none.

Edit: I'd say Punk/Omega is second but considering Punk isn't a mat technician and Omega isn't the best promo I'd go with Bryan/Punk being second.


----------



## THANOS

The Legit DMD said:


> *The women's segment was only below Bryan and Cole. I keep telling y'all if the women's division is fire, you get way more viewers.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1436069946761564165*


Ruby Soho is a draw! They really presented her well at All Out & in the earlier segment on Dynamite to pop this big for her debut singles match.

Bryan is a draw, but anyone, who was around in 2013/2014 with Bryan's rise, who followed the quarter hour breakdowns could tell you that.

The guy was outdrawing everyone in obscure timeslots as well.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

THANOS said:


> Ruby Soho is a draw! They really presented her well at All Out & in the earlier segment on Dynamite to pop this big for her debut singles match.
> 
> Bryan is a draw, but anyone, who was around in 2013/2014 with Bryan's rise, who followed the quarter hour breakdowns could tell you that.
> 
> The guy was outdrawing everyone in obscure timeslots as well.


*The difference is we're on the same side this time 😂*


----------



## Klitschko

Catching up on this thread and so fucking happy. AEW has become must see since the fans came back. Great rating.


----------



## Stylebender

Jbardo37 said:


> To think we have had people on this forum saying Bryan is not a draw.


I love Bryan but he only got around 100k more than the average of the show for his segment. Which included his debut,Coles debut and the aew champ. Viewership in total was up abit for a stacked dynamite card and people wanting to see the fall out from all out. Obviously Bryan like Punk are going to bring in some viewers but just like Punks first rampage did 1.1 milion and his second did 600 k or whatever its going to be the same for Bryan once the initial omg he,s here wears off. 

Its all down to good booking and keeping the momentum rollin for the show as a whole that makes the big difference in the ratings as if proven in wwe where even the biggest stars cant pop the ratings more than abit because the show is trash.


----------



## THANOS

The Legit DMD said:


> *The difference is we're on the same side this time 😂*


Haha absolutely. No Reigns/Bryan line in the sand to part the sea so to speak . Unless you're into Wardlow, but, to be fair, AEW won't ever push him or anyone like him unless they're truly ready for it and get over 1st.

So I think we'll be on the same side most of the time now .


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

THANOS said:


> Haha absolutely. No Reigns/Bryan line in the sand to part the sea so to speak . Unless you're into Wardlow, but, to be fair, AEW won't ever push him or anyone like him unless they're truly ready for it and get over 1st.
> 
> So I think we'll be on the same side most of the time now .


*The Shield/Reigns vs Bryan fan wars kept this place alive. Nothing was the same after his injury. 







*


----------



## THANOS

The Legit DMD said:


> *The Shield/Reigns vs Bryan fan wars kept this place alive. Nothing was the same after his injury.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


It's true! It was so active then for sure haha. After he left I left until AEW brought me back. Now I'm fully back on the train


----------



## thorn123

still deserved more ...


----------



## taker1986




----------



## GothicBohemian

Joe Gill said:


> they are killing it with younger male fans... now they need to focus a bit more on female fans...need to bring in a few more pretty boys. The Kenny Omegas and Daniel Bryans are mostly appealing to male fans.


I happen to think Kenny is pretty.



The Legit DMD said:


> *Or...they could simply improve the women's division and feature them more.*


They're working on it, finally! I like what I saw this week. 



Prized Fighter said:


> I would have to check previous weeks, but I would bet Bryan actually increases the female fan viewership. For a smaller guy, he is actually in great shape and his time on Total Bellas probably helps as well.


I've never watched a Bellas episode in my life so i can't say of that helps bring in other women. As for his sex appeal - he's a great guy, and for a lot of woman that's sexier than being the hottest man in the room. And, ya know, some women really like work rate wrestlers. We exist. 



.christopher. said:


> I'll be surprised if it does.
> 
> If you're looking to attract casual women, the draw for them is and always has been attractive men.


Or attractive women, depending on which casual women you're talking about. 
I mean, Sammy's cute and all, and I can enjoy that, but Jamie Hayter's ass is enjoyable as well.


----------



## yeahright2

We have some ratings
AEW Ratings prediction game

@RapShepard was almost spot on. - Good job, congratulations 

They did good this week, but it´s obvious who the stars of the show are; Punk, Cole and Bryan... The "homegrown" talent caps around 1 Million, so you could argue those extra 300K viewers are quite expensive.
Anyway, AEW needs to keep momentum now, and keep the goofiness to a minimum


----------



## Jedah

RainmakerV2 said:


> Now they need to put the petal to the floor. No more of these Dynamites that look like Dark Elevation cards. Put the stars on every week.


Agreed. That was a fantastic result for a great show.

And notice who was missing? No Orange Cassidy or Best Friends. No 2.0. No Hardy Family Office. The show was better without those kinds of matches. Imagine that!

Goes to show what I said earlier in the week about picking the 20 or so guys and 15 or so girls you should feature and making their combinations the bulk of the programming, which is basically what happened last night with the exception of the Dark Order segment, but even that served the purpose of building FTR to a title challenge.

Riho needs to get on the show more. I was guessing at it but I'm more confident it's her vs. Baker at Full Gear now. They have history and Britt will want to say she beat all the former champs. This is not the first time Riho was involved in a ratings pop. I think she and Darby are the most consistent ratings movers for the men and women respectively.


----------



## omaroo

Jedah said:


> Agreed. That was a fantastic result for a great show.
> 
> And notice who was missing? No Orange Cassidy or Best Friends. No 2.0. No Hardy Family Office. The show was better without those kinds of matches. Imagine that!
> 
> Goes to show what I said earlier in the week about picking the 20 or so guys and 15 or so girls you should feature and making their combinations the bulk of the programming, which is basically what happened last night with the exception of the Dark Order segment, but even that served the purpose of building FTR to a title challenge.
> 
> Riho needs to get on the show more. I was guessing at it but I'm more confident it's her vs. Baker at Full Gear now. They have history and Britt will want to say she beat all the former champs. This is not the first time Riho was involved in a ratings pop. I think she and Darby are the most consistent ratings movers for the men and women respectively.


Sadly we will still see trash like Hardy, orange, 2.0, gunns, nightmare factory some weeks which does drag the show down.


----------



## Jedah

omaroo said:


> Sadly we will still see trash like Hardy, orange, 2.0, gunns, nightmare factory some weeks which does drag the show down.


If that's part of advancing the stories involving the top 20 guys they should use, fine, but I can no longer stomach it on its own. They need to shut that shit down.


----------



## omaroo

Jedah said:


> If that's part of advancing the stories involving the top 20 guys they should use, fine, but I can no longer stomach it on its own. They need to shut that shit down.


Ye I agree.

TK needs to understand some talent just suck and should never really be anywhere near the main shows unless they have a purpose to serve.


----------



## DammitChrist

Jedah said:


> Agreed. That was a fantastic result for a great show.
> 
> And notice who was missing? No Orange Cassidy or Best Friends. No 2.0. No Hardy Family Office. The show was better without those kinds of matches. Imagine that!
> 
> Goes to show what I said earlier in the week about picking the 20 or so guys and 15 or so girls you should feature and making their combinations the bulk of the programming, which is basically what happened last night with the exception of the Dark Order segment, but even that served the purpose of building FTR to a title challenge.
> 
> Riho needs to get on the show more. I was guessing at it but I'm more confident it's her vs. Baker at Full Gear now. They have history and Britt will want to say she beat all the former champs. This is not the first time Riho was involved in a ratings pop. I think she and Darby are the most consistent ratings movers for the men and women respectively.


Nah, I’m pretty sure that they’d still hold up over a million viewers with Orange Cassidy and Matt Hardy being featured on the show. 

The former is popular as hell within the fanbase (as demonstrated at Double or Nothing), and the latter is a respected midcarder who has a Hall of Fame-worthy career. 

Both of those men definitely have their spots on TV too.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

yeahright2 said:


> We have some ratings
> AEW Ratings prediction game
> 
> @RapShepard was almost spot on. - Good job, congratulations
> 
> They did good this week, but it´s obvious who the stars of the show are; Punk, Cole and Bryan... The "homegrown" talent caps around 1 Million, so you could argue those extra 300K viewers are quite expensive.
> Anyway, AEW needs to keep momentum now, and keep the goofiness to a minimum


*Punk did a mil flat on the go home show before their biggest pay-per-view ever and just got outdrawn by Ruby Soho vs Jamie Hayter, so this shows you who the real needle mover is.







*


----------



## .christopher.

GothicBohemian said:


> I've never watched a Bellas episode in my life so i can't say of that helps bring in other women. As for his sex appeal - he's a great guy, and for a lot of woman that's sexier than being the hottest man in the room. And, ya know, some women really like work rate wrestlers. We exist.


Reminds me of the long gone legend that was @Amber B . I remember her gushing over Bryan.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

The Legit DMD said:


> *Punk did a mil flat on the go home show before their biggest pay-per-view ever and just got outdrawn by Ruby Soho vs Jamie Hayter, so this shows you who the real needle mover is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


No doubt. Super obvious


----------



## Jedah

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, I’m pretty sure that they’d still hold up over a million viewers with Orange Cassidy and Matt Hardy being featured on the show.
> 
> The former is popular as hell within the fanbase (as demonstrated at Double or Nothing), and the latter is a respected midcarder who has a Hall of Fame-worthy career.
> 
> Both of those men definitely have their spots on TV too.


Unfortunately, Orange Cassidy sells a ton of merch for whatever odd reason, so he has his spot. I put him in my top 20 for that reason.

But he needs to be in real feuds, not these go-nowhere matches with dorks.

Hardy refers more to his faction than him, but this gimmick of his is one of his worse ones. In his current form he shouldn't be taking up time on Dynamite, unlike Christian who can still go and Jericho who is always entertaining.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Damn I was right, I said at the most they'd get around 1.3 million. Damn I'm good.


----------



## Fwwla

GothicBohemian said:


> I happen to think Kenny is pretty.
> 
> 
> 
> They're working on it, finally! I like what I saw this week.
> 
> 
> 
> I've never watched a Bellas episode in my life so i can't say of that helps bring in other women. As for his sex appeal - he's a great guy, and for a lot of woman that's sexier than being the hottest man in the room. And, ya know, some women really like work rate wrestlers. We exist.
> 
> 
> 
> Or attractive women, depending on which casual women you're talking about.
> I mean, Sammy's cute and all, and I can enjoy that, but Jamie Hayter's ass is enjoyable as well.


I happen to be one of those women who loves work rate wrestlers as well, which is why Bryan is my all time fav. Don’t misunderstand, I enjoy some wrestlers for their looks ( Randy Orton in the 00’s, and Finn Balor for example, and yes I know they’re from WWE ) but I don’t watch wrestling just because of the sex appeal wrestlers might have, I genuinely enjoy wrestling as well. I’ve been into it ever since I was a little kid. Men would be lying if they claim some women wrestlers sex appeal doesn’t attract them because I’ve seen a lot fawning over women’s wrestlers in this forum, so men definitely don’t just look at work rate aspect either. It’s not unique to either men or women.


----------



## CM Buck

Chip Chipperson said:


> It's a great rating but they need to follow up. Luckily from what I saw most of the show looked pretty good which should mean repeat business.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, this lends credibility to the debate I was having with @Firefromthegods earlier. Put your belt on the guys who are going to bring TV ratings and sell tickets.
> 
> Chuck the belt on Hangman and watch the ratings go back to 900k - 1 million.


Don't fucking scare me. I thought I had to read an offensive ratings post


----------



## Makish16

So guys are you telling me that the guy who just main evented Mania and the first ever to jump ship the same calendar year. 

The 1 of 4 guys to leave wwe after main eventing multiple Manias(Hart, Hogan, savage) 

The guy who has double the social media presence then the next guy (Jericho)

The guy who has triple the kid, causal and international fanbase then the next aew wrestler

Is a draw 

Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk


----------



## Geeee

taker1986 said:


> View attachment 108080


Don't fear the Ri-per!


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Erik. said:


> Lol at people laughing at Jericho when he said they'd beat Raw in the demos in the next few months.
> 
> Only to be proven right, like a week later.


I feel like posts like this are why people get upset with AEW fans. You are being dishonest and what you say above is not what happened at all but you're pretending it is to give AEW a win. 

Jericho claimed AEW would outright beat RAW and the article in question started talking about overall rating. Many posters said that AEW could potentially win the demo but wouldn't win the overall rating, here's the thread:









Chris Jericho: "Sooner or later, we're going...


While speaking to Busted Open Radio, Chris Jericho claimed that AEW Dynamite will defeat Monday Night Raw in ratings in the next few months. This week’s episode of WWE Raw drew 1,907,000 viewers. This is down from the 2,067,000 viewers the show did last week. The 18-49 demo was a 0.54 rating...




www.wrestlingforum.com





You can scroll down to multiple posters saying that demo is possible.


----------



## zorori

Chip Chipperson said:


> Chuck the belt on Hangman and watch the ratings go back to 900k - 1 million.


There's still a lot of AEW fans that want Hangman to go over Omega. I think that ship has sailed. Now that AEW has bigger stars, he'd be better off winning the title from one of them than Omega anyway.

They might as well keep him off TV so he can spend more time with his family and bring him back for a surprise run-in at the next PPV (perhaps costing Omega the title). There's enough going on right now and he'd just get lost in the mix.


----------



## Serpico Jones

Hopefully this is enough to wake Vince up from his coma.


----------



## zkorejo

Serpico Jones said:


> Hopefully this is enough to wake Vince up from his coma.


He's too stubborn and stuck in his ways to wake up.


----------



## fabi1982

Jay Trotter said:


> Woah. Woah. Pump the brakes.
> 
> Punk's debut on the secondary show in Rampage at 10pm on a Friday went from a 0.30 to a 0.53 in the demo. No PPV fallout episode either with multiple big debuts to spike the numbers. That is slightly better than Bryan's debut on the flagship show of 0.52 in the demo at 8pm on a Wednesday night. Also, Punk's segment in that crappy timeslot did 1.341 million viewers. It was literally all him to get eyeballs on that Rampage. Can't say the same for Bryan on Dynamite. He was on a stacked card with higher drawing potential. If Punk debuted on Dynamite instead of Rampage, it would've been their highest ratings ever.


And what did he do in the Dynamites and Rampages after the debut?


----------



## thorn123

Serpico Jones said:


> Hopefully this is enough to wake Vince up from his coma.


I hope he doesn't change anything .... If WWE gets good again I will have to start watching again and i really dont have the free time ... haha


----------



## the_flock

Kudos to AEW, this was expected. Now they need to sustain it and get between 1.3 and 1.5 each week, any less and you have to ask questions. They need to find a way of sustaining it.


----------



## Martyn

Amazing rating. They finally defeated Raw!

I'd expect them to keep healthy ratings trough the New York run of shows. They will be preempted in october for two weeks with saturday shows. That will obviously leave a mark on their ratings again.


----------



## Not Lying

First thing first, Amazing number.
So much for “NXT will grow more than AEW once they stop competing” bullshit 😂😂

2nd, Looking at this thread lately, looks like I’m gona start prepping for Punk vs Bryan mark warfest.

I love both but I’m team Punk. Let’s see who sells more shirts first, I’m going with Punk. The guy is untouchable when you out a mic in his hands, and he’s a exceptional wrestler, always has been.

3rd, Not really fair to compare last week’s weak card and second Punk appearance vs a 5x stronger card this week with first appearance from Bryan.


----------



## Kishido

Absolutely deserved. I hope they can keep the momentum but I also hope WEE get their shit together.


----------



## 3venflow

9/15 Dynamite in Newark (next Wednesday) is closing in on 12,000 tickets sold. It will, for one week, be AEW's third most attended show ever after Chicago Rampage and Dynamite #1.

9/22 Grand Slam at Arthur Ashe Arena has passed 18k sales with 18,023 tickets sold. It'll be a million dollar gate, the largest crowd in AEW history, and the largest non-WWE crowd in America since WCW in January 1998 assuming the last 669 tickets sell.

12/8 UBS Arena show moved over 4,000 tickets in the pre-sale. It looks like this could be configured for around 18,000 and potentially another massive crowd for AEW.


----------



## Mr316

I was watching the US Open last night and man…this show in NY is gonna be spectacular. Such a beautiful stadium.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Chip Chipperson said:


> I feel like posts like this are why people get upset with AEW fans. You are being dishonest and what you say above is not what happened at all but you're pretending it is to give AEW a win.
> 
> Jericho claimed AEW would outright beat RAW and the article in question started talking about overall rating. Many posters said that AEW could potentially win the demo but wouldn't win the overall rating, here's the thread:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chris Jericho: "Sooner or later, we're going...
> 
> 
> While speaking to Busted Open Radio, Chris Jericho claimed that AEW Dynamite will defeat Monday Night Raw in ratings in the next few months. This week’s episode of WWE Raw drew 1,907,000 viewers. This is down from the 2,067,000 viewers the show did last week. The 18-49 demo was a 0.54 rating...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can scroll down to multiple posters saying that demo is possible.


*He'll have 10,000 excuses about DVR, The Challenge, and the NBA when we revisit this post in 2 months.*


----------



## rbl85

3venflow said:


> 9/15 Dynamite in Newark (next Wednesday) is closing in on 12,000 tickets sold. It will, for one week, be AEW's third most attended show ever after Chicago Rampage and Dynamite #1.
> 
> 9/22 *Grand Slam at Arthur Ashe Arena has passed 18k sales with 18,023 tickets sold. It'll be a million dollar gate, the largest crowd in AEW history*, and the largest non-WWE crowd in America since WCW in January 1998 assuming the last 669 tickets sell.
> 
> 12/8 UBS Arena show moved over 4,000 tickets in the pre-sale. It looks like this could be configured for around 18,000 and potentially another massive crowd for AEW.


The thing is we still don't know how much the proof of vaccination is going to hurt.


----------



## 3venflow

Interesting QHs for last week's Rampage with the women's match defying the usual downward trend as the show gets deeper into the night. Hayter has been in two big quarter hours over the past two shows. Not sure how much Punk's entrance played into that QH.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> 9/15 Dynamite in Newark (next Wednesday) is closing in on 12,000 tickets sold. It will, for one week, be AEW's third most attended show ever after Chicago Rampage and Dynamite #1.
> 
> 9/22 Grand Slam at Arthur Ashe Arena has passed 18k sales with 18,023 tickets sold. It'll be a million dollar gate, the largest crowd in AEW history, and the largest non-WWE crowd in America since WCW in January 1998 assuming the last 669 tickets sell.
> 
> 12/8 UBS Arena show moved over 4,000 tickets in the pre-sale. It looks like this could be configured for around 18,000 and potentially another massive crowd for AEW.


AEW is bigger than WWE at the live gate, pass it around


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Interesting QHs for last week's Rampage with the women's match defying the usual downward trend as the show gets deeper into the night. Hayter has been in two big quarter hours over the past two shows. Not sure how much Punk's entrance played into that QH.
> 
> View attachment 108103


oh boy, here comes Legit DMD


----------



## bdon

Sable was a draw back in the day, proving ratings are not always for the right reasons.

Always good to have ratings ass…ets.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> oh boy, here comes Legit DMD


*? The women's match peaked the show. If you think that spike was for a 30 second COMMENTARY entrance, then yikes.

What that chart shows me more than anything is that they need to put TELEVISED wins on Daniel Garcia because people don't care to watch him lose every week. That's the second time his match with Darby has plummeted the rating.*


----------



## .christopher.

The Definition of Technician said:


> First thing first, Amazing number.
> So much for “NXT will grow more than AEW once they stop competing” bullshit 😂😂
> 
> 2nd, Looking at this thread lately, looks like I’m gona start prepping for Punk vs Bryan mark warfest.
> 
> I love both but I’m team Punk. Let’s see who sells more shirts first, I’m going with Punk. The guy is untouchable when you out a mic in his hands, and he’s a exceptional wrestler, always has been.
> 
> 3rd, Not really fair to compare last week’s weak card and second Punk appearance vs a 5x stronger card this week with first appearance from Bryan.


I'm not into this mark war but, shit, I had you down as team Bryan, brother!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *He'll have 10,000 excuses about DVR, The Challenge, and the NBA when we revisit this post in 2 months.*


you talking like somebody who does not know the power of advertising on dvr +7


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *? The women's match peaked the show. If you think that spike was for a 30 second COMMENTARY entrance, then yikes.
> 
> What that chart shows me more than anything is that they need to put wins on Daniel Garcia because people don't care to watch him lose every week. That's the second time his match with Darby has plummeted the rating.*


lol, no - i thought the women did great / just waiting for you to rub it in everybodies face


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol, no - i thought the women did great / just waiting for you to rub it in everybodies face


*In that case, yes, I am vindicated again. No obnoxious celebration because it just doesn't surprise me at this point.*


----------



## Dr. Middy

I feel like arguing about a few thousand viewers in regards to draws is kinda pointless in all honesty. It only really matters when you get real big drops or gains, like Darby/Garcia.


----------



## RogueSlayer

Mr316 said:


> I was watching the US Open last night and man…this show in NY is gonna be spectacular. Such a beautiful stadium.


Yes it is

Massive tennis fan here and Arthur Ashe is definitely my favourite tennis stadium as well.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Dr. Middy said:


> I feel like arguing about a few thousand viewers in regards to draws is kinda pointless in all honesty. It only really matters when you get real big drops or gains, like Darby/Garcia.


*As great as Daniel Garcia is, this is another prime example of why AEW needs to stop putting unknowns in big spots television with no build. Get him away from Darby and Sting and allow him to rack up wins on TV so that the audience can grow to like him or want to see him lose.*


----------



## Dr. Middy

The Legit DMD said:


> *As great as Daniel Garcia is, this is another prime example of why AEW needs to stop putting unknowns in big spots television with no build. Get him away from Darby and Sting and allow him to rack up wins on TV so that the audience can grow to like him or want to see him lose.*


Yeah I agree there. I like the guy and there is potential there for sure, but they seemed to just instantly use him as this key guy all of a sudden. I'd rather them have him on Dark a bit where you allow him to impress, then bring him up and explain how impressive he's been, maybe air a video package on him, and I think people would care way more.

I guess they have the thought that Darby could elevate him, but you need people to actually know who Garcia is before that can actually work correctly.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dr. Middy said:


> Yeah I agree there. I like the guy and there is potential there for sure, but they seemed to just instantly use him as this key guy all of a sudden. I'd rather them have him on Dark a bit where you allow him to impress, then bring him up and explain how impressive he's been, maybe air a video package on him, and I think people would care way more.
> 
> I guess they have the thought that Darby could elevate him, but you need people to actually know who Garcia is before that can actually work correctly.


Garcia has been on DARK for quite a while

he didn’t just pop out from nowhere


----------



## Dr. Middy

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Garcia has been on DARK for quite a while
> 
> he didn’t just pop out from nowhere


Actually this presents a different problem then. I don't watch Dark, but it should have been highlighted more or something then. Hell just throw together a 30 second highlight video package or something, so I have an idea about the guy.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Dr. Middy said:


> Yeah I agree there. I like the guy and there is potential there for sure, but they seemed to just instantly use him as this key guy all of a sudden. I'd rather them have him on Dark a bit where you allow him to impress, then bring him up and explain how impressive he's been, maybe air a video package on him, and I think people would care way more.
> 
> I guess they have the thought that Darby could elevate him, but you need people to actually know who Garcia is before that can actually work correctly.





LifeInCattleClass said:


> Garcia has been on DARK for quite a while
> 
> he didn’t just pop out from nowhere


*This just reiterates my point of Dark being largely useless for building people. It should be used as a training stage for green workers, not a place to farm wins and get thrown on TV randomly. No one cares if you have 25 wins on Dark when they haven't seen you on television all year. Just look at Colton Gunn. *


----------



## The_Great_One21

1.3m is the absolute basement of what I expected becore Bryan and Punk showed up. Hoped they’d push it closer to 1.5


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *This just reiterates my point of Dark being largely useless for building people. It should be used as a training stage for green workers, not a place to farm wins and get thrown on TV randomly. No one cares if you have 25 wins on Dark when they haven't seen you on television all year. Just look at Colton Gunn. *


well, you‘re getting your wish

dark is moving to a studio setting and will become exactly what you say here

…. Are you TK?


----------



## Prized Fighter

The Legit DMD said:


> *This just reiterates my point of Dark being largely useless for building people. It should be used as a training stage for green workers, not a place to farm wins and get thrown on TV randomly. No one cares if you have 25 wins on Dark when they haven't seen you on television all year. Just look at Colton Gunn. *


This is a fair point. I do wonder if the wins on Dark will be ignored now that they are taping in Orlando. Basically make it a separate entity similar to how NXT used to be. Elevation could be counted since those matches are gonna be taped on the road, but the Orlando show could be it's own thing.


----------



## Dr. Middy

LifeInCattleClass said:


> well, you‘re getting your wish
> 
> dark is moving to a studio setting and will become exactly what you say here
> 
> *…. Are you TK?*


I think in his nightmares he is.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> well, you‘re getting your wish
> 
> dark is moving to a studio setting and will become exactly what you say here
> 
> …. Are you TK?


*We've established that the Bucks read my posts, so they just relay the info to the boss 😎.*


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Garcia has been on DARK for quite a while
> 
> he didn’t just pop out from nowhere


Dark _IS _nowhere
If it happens on youtube, it doesn´t happen as far as a lot of viewers is concerned.


----------



## Big Booty Bex

The Legit DMD said:


> Punk did a mil flat on the go home show before their biggest pay-per-view ever and just got outdrawn by Ruby Soho vs Jamie Hayter, so this shows you who the real needle mover is.


The Booty is a draw confirmed by, Boss. I knew it.


----------



## Prized Fighter

TK said on Busted Open Radio that they have sold over 100,000 CM Punk shirts so far.


----------



## 3venflow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1436364949001957380


----------



## Not Lying

CM PUNK CM PUNK CM PUNK 😍😍


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> Dark _IS _nowhere
> If it happens on youtube, it doesn´t happen as far as a lot of viewers is concerned.


Oh, ok 🤷‍♂️


----------



## bdon

200k fans just got the absolute very best taste of AEW television. The very best.

And this without Sammy, Hangman, Malakai Black, Pac and Andrade, Kenny facing a 50 year old Christian, etc.

Only up from here, fellas.


----------



## Geert Wilders

The_Great_One21 said:


> 1.3m is the absolute basement of what I expected becore Bryan and Punk showed up. Hoped they’d push it closer to 1.5


it will go down

this is the peak for now. AEW need to keep giving us good product Word of mouth will spread. They are only 2 years in.


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Oh, ok 🤷‍♂️


Numbers don´t lie -any given episode of Dark has roughly 300K viewers. Dynamite this Wednesday had 1.3 Million. That means there´s 1 Million viewers out there that doesn´t care about Dark.


----------



## Geeee

I heard that All Out did more buys than Money in the Bank 2011 (Punk vs Cena main event)


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> Numbers don´t lie -any given episode of Dark has roughly 300K viewers. Dynamite this Wednesday had 1.3 Million. That means there´s 1 Million viewers out there that doesn´t care about Dark.


Okey dokey

you don’t care about youtube views though

i remember from the predictions thread


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Okey dokey
> 
> you don’t care about youtube views though
> 
> i remember from the predictions thread


I don´t. That´s why I keep saying if it happens there, it doesn´t happen


----------



## fabi1982

3m $ extra from Punk is not bad, if these are domestic numbers (50$ a pop I guess). But to be completely honest I was exprecting something in the range of 300k buys, but the increase is still very good.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> I don´t. That´s why I keep saying if it happens there, it doesn´t happen


Lol, fair enough

it. Never. Happened


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

bdon said:


> 200k fans just got the absolute very best taste of AEW television. The very best.
> 
> And this without Sammy, Hangman, Malakai Black, Pac and Andrade, Kenny facing a 50 year old Christian, etc.
> 
> Only up from here, fellas.


*I love that they didn't make the same mistake after CM Punk's debut and put complete bullshit on the air on Dynamite. This Wednesday was an excellent followup to their best PPV ever.*


----------



## Jbardo37

Punk is a big reason for that PPV buyrate and that’s a lot of T-shirt’s sold too, anything else haters?


----------



## Swan-San

If every episode from now on was as good as this one, they'd match RAW overall viewership within a year. But I doubt it will be, they always do these once in a while great shows then follow it up with two months of jobber city


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Swan-San said:


> If every episode from now on was as good as this one, they'd match RAW overall viewership within a year. But I doubt it will be, they always do these once in a while great shows then follow it up with two months of jobber city


Come on mate, we've got Adam Cole Vs Frankie Kazarian and Darby Allin Vs Shawn Spears to look forward to this week. Those 1.3 million will be back.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

200k buys is crazy for AEW. Basically almost doubles/doubles what they normally get. 

Punk’s debut has been a huge success and there is more evidence now of that. It’s had an overall hugely positive impact on the business, and now based off this week’s Dynamite I’m expecting Bryan’s debut to keep that momentum going.

AEW is starting to feel big. Punk and Bryan as the big stars. Young extremely over talent who could be big stars like MJF, Adam Page and Darby Allin. A lot of great in ring workers in singles and tag division. Strong undercard characters like Orange Cassidy. Veterans like Jericho and Sting. A really strong woman’s division led by a really over Britt Baker, with Jade Cargill and Jamie Hayter as potentially big stars for the division in the future. You have plenty of big guys to who could be main event stars or help bring some legitimacy to AEW for those who crave that. Miro, Hobbs, Brian Cage… 


Not everything AEW does is a home run. Not everyone can and/or will be a star. The thing is, they have enough at their disposal where they can create talent and stories for years to coming, using the strong base with the stars and veterans they currently have.

Now that doesn’t involve feeding all the stars to one guy like WWE does. Someone like Page won’t really have to beat anyone besides Omega if he wins the World Title with momentum. MJF is such a natural asshole heel he’ll be fine for a long time without legit wins over stars. Sting is already helping Darby big time. Punk could be used to get someone else over big time. Ditto for Bryan. Could probably get 2-3 guys out of each of them if done correctly and they’re the right guys. And those guys carry the company for the next 5-10 years and help create more stars each.


That’s how it should all work, in theory. Hoping AEW executes because even though it’s still a decent ways away, I’d love for WWE to have legitimate competition.


----------



## Cooper09

200K for a PPV stuffed with old WWE guys. Definitely say they'll keep going with this and leave the young guys behind!!!


----------



## The_Great_One21

Chip Chipperson said:


> Come on mate, we've got Adam Cole Vs Frankie Kazarian and Darby Allin Vs Shawn Spears to look forward to this week. Those 1.3 million will be back.


Why do you watch this show? You complain about every aspect of it.


----------



## The_Great_One21

Cooper09 said:


> 200K for a PPV stuffed with old WWE guys. Definitely say they'll keep going with this and leave the young guys behind!!!


Except every match had someone not from WWE.

Kingston.
Kojima.
Lucha/Bucks.
Baker/Statlander.
MJF.
Darby.
Omega.


----------



## Not Lying

The Legit DMD said:


> *They did it. They hit the 1.3. THIS is moving the needle. Bravo. Forget Hangman. Push Bryan now.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1436056172742815745*












THIS is what it means AEW is the *hottest* company around. Look at this incredible growth. 
@RapShepard 



The Legit DMD said:


> *The women's segment was only below Bryan and Cole. I keep telling y'all if the women's division is fire, you get way more viewers.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1436069946761564165*


Nice, the biggest growth is by Ruby and Jamie +100K. It's an impressive jump any way you put it, top of the hour or not.

Incredible number by Adam Cole and Bryan. Cole was giving a great promo and Bryan is Bryan.

This might be the first time Moxley loses viewers in a 1 on 1 match main event.
Bad and expected cause majority of watchers in the US don't care for some guy from japan they never heard. Imagine they had done Miro vs Mox in the main event, and it's perfect time to do a DQ/non-conclusive finish to hook people for later.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The_Great_One21 said:


> Why do you watch this show? You complain about every aspect of it.


I don't. I read the results and YouTube whatever sounds interesting.


----------



## Not Lying

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1430609387077394435
Quite interesting. Wish we could get more minute by minute breakdowns like this.
They lost immediately 300K after Punk left.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Definition of Technician said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1430609387077394435
> Quite interesting. Wish we could get more minute by minute breakdowns like this.
> They lost immediately 300K after Punk left.


think thats because of the ad break?

regardless, the 300k didn’t come back

i’m with you, hope we see more of this type of stuff


----------



## Not Lying

LifeInCattleClass said:


> think thats because of the ad break?
> 
> regardless, the 300k didn’t come back
> 
> i’m with you, hope we see more of this type of stuff


It says 3 more min of Punk and then there was Christian/JE promo and they had put "up next JE/Private Party" which are nobody's to Punk fans who tuned in.
They started to tune out around 17min mark when Punk was leaving to his song talking to the crowd


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The Definition of Technician said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1430609387077394435
> Quite interesting. Wish we could get more minute by minute breakdowns like this.
> They lost immediately 300K after Punk left.


Yeah really wish we got more of this. Would like to see this for this week as well especially.

Viewership really dropped hard after Punk, which was to be expected. Heck, it started with the 1.35 mill which is insane in it of itself. 

On the plus side though, it does seem like the Jurassic/Private Party did actually gain viewers as it went on, even after the mid-match ad break. So that's good.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Definition of Technician said:


> It says 3 more min of Punk and then there was Christian/JE promo and they had put "up next JE/Private Party" which are nobody's to Punk fans who tuned in.
> They started to tune out around 17min mark when Punk was leaving to his song talking to the crowd


crazy

these minute by minute really shows when somebody is a draw

its hard to argue that Punk didn’t draw that 300k people (and more of course)


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Yeah really wish we got more of this. Would like to see this for this week as well especially.
> 
> Viewership really dropped hard after Punk, which was to be expected. Heck, it started with the 1.35 mill which is insane in it of itself.
> 
> On the plus side though, it does seem like the Jurassic/Private Party did actually gain viewers as it went on, even after the mid-match ad break. So that's good.


*Those minute by minute breakdowns were fun for our fan wars back in the day.*


----------



## The_Great_One21

Chip Chipperson said:


> I don't. I read the results and YouTube whatever sounds interesting.


So how can you comment on everything then when you don’t even watch the show?


----------



## THANOS

The Legit DMD said:


> *Those minute by minute breakdowns were fun for our fan wars back in the day.*


Yep, it definitely shut up a ton of Bryan haters haha.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

THANOS said:


> Yep, it definitely shut up a ton of Bryan haters haha.


*Hey, The Shield was right up there with him! And carried the show to higher ratings after his injury from the Kane matches.*


----------



## THANOS

The Legit DMD said:


> *Hey, The Shield was right up there with him! And carried the show to higher ratings after his injury from the Kane matches.*


That's true, they helped hold it together. That Kane feud was such shit, now I will certainly have nightmares 🤣🤮


----------



## Erik.

Geeee said:


> I heard that All Out did more buys than Money in the Bank 2011 (Punk vs Cena main event)


It was pretty much on par or beat many WWE PPVs between 2011 and 2014 (outside the big 4) before the Network came in.

That's ridiculously impressive.

2021 has seen AEWs top 3 PPV sales. Which shows growth. Interesting that all came on a Sunday too. Their next PPV is on a Saturday 

Also, nice to see Omega main event the two biggest PPVs outside of WWE in 2 decades.


----------



## bdon

Erik. said:


> It was pretty much on par or beat many WWE PPVs between 2011 and 2014 (outside the big 4) before the Network came in.
> 
> That's ridiculously impressive.
> 
> 2021 has seen AEWs top 3 PPV sales. Which shows growth. Interesting that all came on a Sunday too. Their next PPV is on a Saturday
> 
> Also, nice to see Omega main event the two biggest PPVs outside of WWE in 2 decades.


Many are going to say, “Well, Omega had X, Y, and Z…” as a reason why it doesn’t confirm that he is a “draw”, all while ignoring that Flair and Hogan routinely headlined big PPVs with the likes of Sting, Macho, etc on the undercard.

It takes a great card and loyal fans to headline a big PPV. Meltzer’s definition of “top draw” is about as convincing as ESPN’s definition of “clutch”. Stats alone do not paint the entire picture.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Bryan has to be the second biggest draw after Cena the last decade. He brings a lot of viewers and buys. Not on Austin or Rocks level but no one is. But he’s a draw and now people can shut up about him not being.


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> crazy
> 
> these minute by minute really shows when somebody is a draw
> 
> its hard to argue that Punk didn’t draw that 300k people (and more of course)


Isnt a draw someone who does this every time he appears? I really am tired of seeing people saying he is a draw because of his comeback segment. What else could have happened? I would like to see the mbm for the Dynamite after, did he gain 300k or do 300k switch off the minute he left?

Of course its a good rating, of course it was expected that Punk brings in the eyes, but this just happens once, that doesnt scream draw to me.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> crazy
> 
> these minute by minute really shows when somebody is a draw
> 
> its hard to argue that Punk didn’t draw that 300k people (and more of course)


*Crazy that you're talking about his debut after a 7 year hiatus from 3 weeks ago instead of the drop to 1 million on the go home show of their biggest pay-per-view ever.*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

fabi1982 said:


> Isnt a draw someone who does this every time he appears? I really am tired of seeing people saying he is a draw because of his comeback segment. What else could have happened? I would like to see the mbm for the Dynamite after, did he gain 300k or do 300k switch off the minute he left?
> 
> Of course its a good rating, of course it was expected that Punk brings in the eyes, but this just happens once, that doesnt scream draw to me.


Thing is, that number from that Rampage shows how big of a draw Punk is. He really pulled in like 600k, and half of that stuck around the same show.

Now you could make the argument of that 300k that stuck around, it’s translated to a smaller retention for Dynamite or no retention at all even. I’ll bring this up again though, since Punk debuted Dynamite hasn’t had a quarter below 1 million. 1 million was a point they struggled to keep consistently up, especially every quarter. Even shows that averaged over a million had quarters that would dip below.

Punk comes in and 1 million seems to be the bottom now after 3 weeks for Dynamite. 1.014 was the lowest of last 3 weeks. The lowest of the three Dynamites before that? 892k.

So the argument can be made Punk has pulled in, at minimum, 120k viewers. More than 10% of their normal audience. Of course maybe it has nothing to do with Punk and is just indicative of the improving quality of the shows to viewers. 

I think there’s enough evidence to point to the former, but if Bryan has a similar effect then they should easily be able to main 1.1-1.2 million viewership levels.

Though, it’s still really too soon to declare anything anyway. Bryan just came in, and even Punk has only been on 3 Dynamite episodes. Not really enough data to say anything for certain, and there’s much to examine when it comes to all of this.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Isnt a draw someone who does this every time he appears? I really am tired of seeing people saying he is a draw because of his comeback segment. What else could have happened? I would like to see the mbm for the Dynamite after, did he gain 300k or do 300k switch off the minute he left?
> 
> Of course its a good rating, of course it was expected that Punk brings in the eyes, but this just happens once, that doesnt scream draw to me.





The Legit DMD said:


> *Crazy that you're talking about his debut after a 7 year hiatus from 3 weeks ago instead of the drop to 1 million on the go home show of their biggest pay-per-view ever.*


i was merely talking about the minute by minute lads - i would be interested to see them for the current and future

its a great way to see if somebody is a draw

i didn’t realise this was the debut episode


----------



## fabi1982

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Thing is, that number from that Rampage shows how big of a draw Punk is. He really pulled in like 600k, and half of that stuck around the same show.
> 
> Now you could make the argument of that 300k that stuck around, it’s translated to a smaller retention for Dynamite or no retention at all even. I’ll bring this up again though, since Punk debuted Dynamite hasn’t had a quarter below 1 million. 1 million was a point they struggled to keep consistently up, especially every quarter. Even shows that averaged over a million had quarters that would dip below.
> 
> Punk comes in and 1 million seems to be the bottom now after 3 weeks for Dynamite. 1.014 was the lowest of last 3 weeks. The lowest of the three Dynamites before that? 892k.
> 
> So the argument can be made Punk has pulled in, at minimum, 120k viewers. More than 10% of their normal audience. Of course maybe it has nothing to do with Punk and is just indicative of the improving quality of the shows to viewers.
> 
> I think there’s enough evidence to point to the former, but if Bryan has a similar effect then they should easily be able to main 1.1-1.2 million viewership levels.
> 
> Though, it’s still really too soon to declare anything anyway. Bryan just came in, and even Punk has only been on 3 Dynamite episodes. Not really enough data to say anything for certain, and there’s much to examine when it comes to all of this.


You are 100% right, its too soon. They need to keep these ratings when the buzz is gone. It is very good to see the progress, I wouldnt want to put this all on Punk (as many say the usual Punk marks watched already), they just have a great buzz. So lets discuss in three month after Bray debuted and Ric Flair. Lets see how they do around Christmasy.

But overall the progress is good to see, just not measurable if someone is a draw or not, at the moment the product is the draw.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> You are 100% right, its too soon. They need to keep these ratings when the buzz is gone. It is very good to see the progress, I wouldnt want to put this all on Punk (as many say the usual Punk marks watched already), they just have a great buzz. So lets discuss in three month after Bray debuted and Ric Flair. Lets see how they do around Christmasy.
> 
> But overall the progress is good to see, just not measurable if someone is a draw or not, at the moment the product is the draw.


except Danielson

Danielson is a draw


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> except Danielson
> 
> Danielson is a draw


Yes, yes he is. I watched purely because of him and will watch again next week just because of him.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Yes, yes he is. I watched purely because of him and will watch again next week just because of him.


i am firmly team Danielson

always have been

for me Danielson > everybody else

think his run is gonna be amazing


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i am firmly team Danielson
> 
> always have been
> 
> for me Danielson > everybody else
> 
> think his run is gonna be amazing


I‘m team Bryan since NXT (wasnt possible to know ROH back then in Germany (at least for me)) and I had butterflies every episode of the summer of Bryan!! I already love him to take off the belt of Kenny (hopefully as soon as NYC).


----------



## DammitChrist

I love Bryan Danielson, but if I was held at gunpoint between both choices, then I'd be on Team CM Punk!!

It's a win-win either way for me since both those men are among my all-time favorites 



The Legit DMD said:


> *Crazy that you're talking about his debut after a 7 year hiatus from 3 weeks ago instead of the drop to 1 million on the go home show of their biggest pay-per-view ever.*


How is maintaining 1 million viewers supposed to be bad news?

It's cute how you continue to downplay CM Punk's impact.


----------



## holy

Very strong viewership for Dynamite this week!

I don't want to say I represent all casual viewers, but as a casual viewer of AEW myself, I have generally noticed in recent times that the shows that I tune into also tend to have higher viewership, which probably just means that me and other fellow casuals have similar viewing interests when it comes to AEW.

This week, I watched the entire episode of Dynamite, partly to see what's next for Punk, but largely to see what they do with Daniel Bryan. The quarter hour breakdown also shows that most people (1.4 million!) tuned in during Daniel's segment. 

One thing I will say though: I don't think this week's Dynamite was strong enough to give viewers an urge to tune in next week. I certainly didn't feel that urge once the show ended, especially because the Daniel Bryan segment was so short and just felt like an extension of what he did at the PPV.

There will be a drop in Dynamite viewership next week, but let's see how much!


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> except Danielson
> 
> Danielson is a draw


*Not going to disagree here. He actually moved the needle.*


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *Not going to disagree here. He actually moved the needle.*


Yep, just like CM Punk did too


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> THIS is what it means AEW is the *hottest* company around. Look at this incredible growth.
> @RapShepard


They're on a roll and picking up steam. But even right now they're not the hottest if they ain't the biggest. I'm accustomed to hottest being the biggest, like Drake is the hottest in rap because right now he doing the biggest numbers. But I'm not going to ruin the moment of them catching the demo and getting big stars in. They definitely have momentum. So agree to disagree on terminology.


----------



## Makish16

To everybody fighting between both guys, never forget that after punk and Bryan Co-main evented summerslam 13, wwe management said neither guy was a draw 

Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk


----------



## .christopher.

Omega needs to drop the belt to an actual star in Bryan ASAP. No more jabronis like him or potentially Hangman. Let's get back to proper stars holding the thing.


----------



## sim8

I may need to go back and watch the Dynamite segment again but wasn't Bryan saying he wants to fight Kenny to prove who is truly elite. Nothing about title.

Indicates Hangman's still the plan. Thankfully



.christopher. said:


> Omega needs to drop the belt to an actual star in Bryan ASAP. No more jabronis like him or potentially Hangman. Let's get back to proper stars holding the thing.


----------



## Martyn

.christopher. said:


> Omega needs to drop the belt to an actual star in Bryan ASAP. No more jabronis like him or potentially Hangman. Let's get back to proper stars holding the thing.


What's the point of giving a title to someone who just jumped in? Kenny will be even bigger if he goes over Danielson and then Hangmans title win will mean even more to him. They need to pull the trigger on the new stars, not guys like Danielson.

That being said, theres no way Danielson would get a title shot right off the bat. He should wrestle other Elite members in order to get some wins first. Similar to what Black is doing now with the Nightmare Family.


----------



## 3venflow

They have opened yet more seats for Arthur Ashe Stadium, bumping capacity to 19,428. There are now 1,290 tickets available with 18,138 sold/distributed.

If they could fill all of those new seats, it would be the largest non-WWE attendance since July 1998 (20,031 for WCW Nitro with DDP vs. Hollywood Hogan).

If they add suite/staff, they could potentially announce an attendance of 20,000+.

This is how it looked yesterday:


----------



## A PG Attitude

3venflow said:


> They have opened yet more seats for Arthur Ashe Stadium, bumping capacity to 19,428. There are now 1,290 tickets available with 18,138 sold/distributed.
> 
> If they could fill all of those new seats, it would be the largest non-WWE attendance since July 1998 (20,031 for WCW Nitro with DDP vs. Hollywood Hogan).
> 
> If they add suite/staff, they could potentially announce an attendance of 20,000+.
> 
> This is how it looked yesterday:
> 
> View attachment 108186


I was watching it yesterday thinking man that Dynamite is going to look insane!


----------



## A PG Attitude

They should really make it a 3 hour Dynamite.


----------



## Jbardo37

A PG Attitude said:


> They should really make it a 3 hour Dynamite.


Good call actually.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Martyn said:


> What's the point of giving a title to someone who just jumped in? Kenny will be even bigger if he goes over Danielson and then Hangmans title win will mean even more to him. They need to pull the trigger on the new stars, not guys like Danielson.
> 
> That being said, theres no way Danielson would get a title shot right off the bat. He should wrestle other Elite members in order to get some wins first. Similar to what Black is doing now with the Nightmare Family.


Because Bryan has genuine mainstream appeal. Go into New York, Los Angeles or another major United States city and ask casual wrestling fans if they know Daniel Bryan and odds are they will say yes and know his catchphrase and probably admit that they really liked him.

Hangman Adam Page? Nobody is going to know him unless they are a hardcore wrestling fan that follows wrestling on forums like these. 

And perhaps most importantly, who do you think media outlets want to talk about/write about? The internationally known Daniel Bryan or the guy known simply by hardcore fans in Hangman?

That's the point.


----------



## Aedubya

A PG Attitude said:


> They should really make it a 3 hour Dynamite.


I think they will


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> They're on a roll and picking up steam. But even right now they're not the hottest if they ain't the biggest. I'm accustomed to hottest being the biggest, like Drake is the hottest in rap because right now he doing the biggest numbers. But I'm not going to ruin the moment of them catching the demo and getting big stars in. They definitely have momentum. So agree to disagree on terminology.


*I'd like to point out the impact -30 as people continually act like this "partnership" has helped them. Meanwhile, they're much worse off than they were last year.*


----------



## bdon

fabi1982 said:


> I‘m team Bryan since NXT (wasnt possible to know ROH back then in Germany (at least for me)) and I had butterflies every episode of the summer of Bryan!! I already love him to take off the belt of Kenny (hopefully as soon as NYC).


Prepare to be heartbroken.


----------



## Makish16

Chip Chipperson said:


> Because Bryan has genuine mainstream appeal. Go into New York, Los Angeles or another major United States city and ask casual wrestling fans if they know Daniel Bryan and odds are they will say yes and know his catchphrase and probably admit that they really liked him.
> 
> Hangman Adam Page? Nobody is going to know him unless they are a hardcore wrestling fan that follows wrestling on forums like these.
> 
> And perhaps most importantly, who do you think media outlets want to talk about/write about? The internationally known Daniel Bryan or the guy known simply by hardcore fans in Hangman?
> 
> That's the point.


Started watching aew when punk came back, I still have know idea who page is, I just know that aew fans want him to win the championship



Sent from my SM-T830 using Tapatalk


----------



## bdon

sim8 said:


> I may need to go back and watch the Dynamite segment again but wasn't Bryan saying he wants to fight Kenny to prove who is truly elite. Nothing about title.
> 
> Indicates Hangman's still the plan. Thankfully


That’s precisely what I took from it. He just wants to prove Omega isn’t the greatest ever, and Omega was trying to use the rankings to avoid facing Bryan.

So!

Bryan challenges Omega to a non-title match at Arthur Ashe Stadium, time limit draw, Page wins the title at Full Gear, and Kenny and Bryan can fuck off into their own feud that doesn’t require the title.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Because Bryan has genuine mainstream appeal. Go into New York, Los Angeles or another major United States city and ask casual wrestling fans if they know Daniel Bryan and odds are they will say yes and know his catchphrase and probably admit that they really liked him.
> 
> Hangman Adam Page? Nobody is going to know him unless they are a hardcore wrestling fan that follows wrestling on forums like these.
> 
> And perhaps most importantly, who do you think media outlets want to talk about/write about? The internationally known Daniel Bryan or the guy known simply by hardcore fans in Hangman?
> 
> That's the point.


Which is why you validate Omega by having Danielson put him over in front of all of those built-in Danielson fans that followed him to AEW.

Kenny beats Danielson to validate all the rumors they’d heard about Kenny Omega. Omega looks like a truly unbeatable world champion. Hangman eventually wins and becomes a made man with far better media-friendly looks than Bryan.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Chip Chipperson said:


> Because Bryan has genuine mainstream appeal. Go into New York, Los Angeles or another major United States city and ask casual wrestling fans if they know Daniel Bryan and odds are they will say yes and know his catchphrase and probably admit that they really liked him.
> 
> Hangman Adam Page? Nobody is going to know him unless they are a hardcore wrestling fan that follows wrestling on forums like these.
> 
> And perhaps most importantly, who do you think media outlets want to talk about/write about? The internationally known Daniel Bryan or the guy known simply by hardcore fans in Hangman?
> 
> That's the point.


*I'm having deja vu from 2 years ago about people who wanted Hangman to beat Jericho. Nah. Slap that belt on Daniel Bryan for the headlines.*


----------



## Erik.

The Legit DMD said:


> *I'm having deja vu from 2 years ago about people who wanted Hangman to beat Jericho. Nah. Slap that belt on Daniel Bryan for the headlines.*


Page got mega go away Roman Reigns heat with online wrestling fans 2 years ago because they thought he was being pushed right off the bat as their top guy.

From the ridiculous joker card and battle Royal win to then being in the first ever world title match despite their being better available.

Its a testament to him and the booking since then that those same fans now want him to be the one to finally beat Omega for that belt.

Quite frankly in this situation, fuck Bryan.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Erik. said:


> Page got mega go away Roman Reigns heat with online wrestling fans 2 years ago because they thought he was being pushed right off the bat as their top guy.
> 
> From the ridiculous joker card and battle Royal win to then being in the first ever world title match despite their being better available.
> 
> Its a testament to him and the booking since then that those same fans now want him to be the one to finally beat Omega for that belt.
> 
> Quite frankly in this situation, fuck Bryan.


Agree. I think this storyline between Omega and Page needs to be executed. They've been building on this for far too long and they must not forget their current fanbase. 

Page reintroduced as a fighting and courageous world champion cowboy for the potential new fans in is a good idea. Bryan vs Page for Revolution 2022 sounds good to me. Let Bryan take it there.


----------



## Not Lying

The Legit DMD said:


> *I'd like to point out the impact -30 as people continually act like this "partnership" has helped them. Meanwhile, they're much worse off than they were last year.*


They did grow back in August and Sep with Christian as champion.

Christian > Omega @.christopher.


----------



## sim8

bdon said:


> That’s precisely what I took from it. He just wants to prove Omega isn’t the greatest ever, and Omega was trying to use the rankings to avoid facing Bryan.
> 
> So!
> 
> Bryan challenges Omega to a non-title match at Arthur Ashe Stadium, time limit draw, Page wins the title at Full Gear, and Kenny and Bryan can fuck off into their own feud that doesn’t require the title.


Fucking This! A million times This!

I need Hangman to win. Im gonna fucking pop so hard


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> Prepare to be heartbroken.


😘


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> They did grow back in August and Sep with Christian as champion.
> 
> Christian > Omega @.christopher.


*Yeah, I already see him getting used over there much better. AEW also has another cop out to ignore his appearances because he's not the AEW World Champion, so getting the belt off Kenny helped more than it hurt.*


----------



## DammitChrist

Makish16 said:


> Started watching aew when punk came back, I still have know idea who page is, I just know that aew fans want him to win the championship
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-T830 using Tapatalk


Adam Page is one of the most popular top faces in the company.

He’s been absent from TV since early August due to a vicious beatdown by the Elite. That’s the kayfabe reason of why Page has been missing for a while.

However, the REAL reason Page has been away is due to the fact that he’s on paternity leave atm.

Page is also known for his cowboy persona too, and he likes to drink a lot since he’s constantly anxious.

Adam Page has a long-term story going on with Kenny Omega. They used to be close friends, and they were even the AEW World Tag Champions throughout most of 2020.

Once they lost the Tag titles at All Out last year, Omega eventually drifted away from his partner because he wanted to focus on singles competition again. However, Page wanted to continue teaming with Omega though.

They teased Kenny Omega being displeased with Adam Page’s lack of focus around the end of their Tag title reign last year.

In fact, FTR (who are the same team to beat both men for the Tag titles at All Out last year) managed to manipulate Adam Page into costing the Young Bucks a shot at his (and Omega’s) gold.

The Young Bucks were so pissed at Adam Page that they finally kicked him out of the Elite last year in September. The 3 of them were uneasy friends that struggled to get along throughout most of 2020.

Most of the Elite also disapproved of Page’s drunken state too (even though he started drinking since he was feeling left out and not accepted by the group) as early as December 2019.

Kenny Omega was the glue that was holding that group together before he ditched Adam Page, but yet still continued to bond with the Young Bucks. This eventually led to Omega and the Young Bucks turning heel at different points.

Kenny Omega also beat Adam Page last year at Full Gear 2020 in the finals where he earned himself the #1 Contendership. He also went on to beat Jon Moxley for the AEW World title a month later in December last year.

The Young Bucks also won the AEW World Tag titles at Full Gear 2020 btw.

Adam Page eventually aligned with the Dark Order since they were willing to accept him even though he was reluctant to join at first. They wanted to support Page at his low point while his former friends were all holding championship gold.

Adam Page eventually went on to make a slow comeback to redeem himself by picking up prominent victories against Matt Hardy, Powerhouse Hobbs, Ricky Starks, and Brian Cage earlier this year.

Back in late June, the Dark Order went on Adam Page’s behalf to challenge Kenny Omega for the AEW World title; which Page disapproved of at first. However, Page went on to confront Omega the following week in early July.

Both men went on to agree with a stipulation that Adam Page and the Dark Order would face the Elite (including the Good Brothers) in an Elimination Tag match at Fight for the Fallen in late July.

If Page’s team wins, then he gets to face Omega for the AEW World title. If Page’s team loses, then he’s unable to challenge Omega for the world championship.

This 10-man Elimination match at Fight for the Fallen featuring Page, Omega, the Young Bucks, the Dark Order, and the Good Brothers went on to have 1 of the highest rated quarterly segments in AEW’s short history on television.

Unfortunately, Page’s team lost to the Elite due to the latter group cheating; so Page couldn’t face Omega for his world championship.

Page told the Dark Order the following week that he still appreciates them for being there for him, but he wants to fight his own battles now; which led to his confrontation with the Elite in that same night. This also led to that vicious assault on Page that sidelined him away from TV since then (which I already mentioned up above here).

The more prominent members of the Dark Order respected Page's decision to stay out of his battles. However, the less prominent members of the Dark Order wanted to keep supporting Page regardless. Those less prominent members tried to come out to save Adam Page from that vicious assault, but the more prominent members came out just to stop them in time (as Page directed them to earlier).

This is why you're seeing the division between the Dark Order atm. Anna Jay and Tay Conti weren't there while the Dark Order backed up Adam Page against the Elite earlier this summer; which is why those hot women are neutral, and why they simply want the men to get along again. 

Evil Uno is the 'leader' of the Dark Order btw, and he supports Adam Page's decision to stay out of his battles. Half of his group disagrees with them though.

Overall, it's widely expected that Adam Page will be back later this month to continue his long-term feud with Kenny Omega. Many of us also expected Page to FINALLY win the AEW World title at Full Gear this November; which will be ONE YEAR after their last singles where Omega won.

It'll be a great way to fully redeem Page after his setbacks over the past year, and it'll be an awesome culmination to this 2 years' worth of story here. The first Dynamite episode after Full Gear also takes place in Page's hometown; so he's pretty much guaranteed to win that world championship soon.

Edit:

By the way, if you're wondering why Frankie Kazarian keeps targeting the Elite, and why he calls himself the Elite Hunter; it's because he lost a tag match against the Young Bucks for the Tag titles back in May this year where the stipulation was that SCU could no longer team up together anymore if they failed to win.

Obviously, the Young Bucks cheated to beat SCU, and Christopher Daniels pretty much retired after that loss. Frankie Kazarian is pissed off at the Elite, and he's been in singles competition since then.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> They have opened yet more seats for Arthur Ashe Stadium, bumping capacity to 19,428. There are now 1,290 tickets available with 18,138 sold/distributed.
> 
> If they could fill all of those new seats, it would be the largest non-WWE attendance since July 1998 (20,031 for WCW Nitro with DDP vs. Hollywood Hogan).
> 
> If they add suite/staff, they could potentially announce an attendance of 20,000+.
> 
> This is how it looked yesterday:
> 
> View attachment 108186


That thing looks made For wrestling

its an amazing stadium


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

As I’ve said before, I am 100% team Brian 

but he does not need the belt right now

I am invested in the Hangman / Omega angle and want to see it play out if we can


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> As I’ve said before, I am 100% team Brian
> 
> but he does not need the belt right now
> 
> I am invested in the Hangman / Omega angle and want to see it play out if we can


You can still have it play out, have Kenny's crew kick the shit out of Bryan Danielson's crew in the PPV main event, Hangman comes running out, clears house, hits Kenny with the lariat, Bryan locks in Cattle Mutilation and wins the belt.

Next PPV semi main is Hangman Vs Kenny, Hangman over.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> As I’ve said before, I am 100% team Brian
> 
> but he does not need the belt right now
> 
> I am invested in the Hangman / Omega angle and want to see it play out if we can


*Y'all need to open up to the idea of striking while the iron is hot. They shouldn't have teased the Hangman angle on TV if they weren't going all the way with it. Now, there's way more far interesting stuff on television and the fans would not reject the idea of Bryan winning the championship.*


----------



## Mr316

AEW in NJ this Wednesday is pretty much sold out. Gonna be one of their biggest crowds ever.


----------



## DammitChrist

No, Adam Page should win the AEW World championship off Kenny Omega next. 

You don’t get to talk about Page “not” being hot right now, and discuss taking his huge moment away from him permanently when you can elevate the guy into an established main-eventer in just a couple of months.

Page’s angle deserves to have its conclusion. It should end with Page being the one to beat Omega for the world title. 

They could still use @bdon ‘s cool idea where they do Bryan Danielson vs Kenny Omega as a non-title match soon (where the finish could be a draw).


----------



## .christopher.

The Definition of Technician said:


> They did grow back in August and Sep with Christian as champion.
> 
> Christian > Omega @.christopher.


You know it, brother!

If Bryan and Punk hadn't joined, he'd be first choice. Would've turned him and had a proper chickenshit heel as champion for a top babyface to beat.


LifeInCattleClass said:


> As I’ve said before, I am 100% team Brian
> 
> but he does not need the belt right now
> 
> I am invested in the Hangman / Omega angle and want to see it play out if we can


Bryan may not need it, but the belt needs a star. Strap that on a star like Bryan who can keep the new fans invested, and after the new fans get used to the newer talent, have one of them beat him and establish themselves then.

Also, it doesn't matter how big of a star you are - the top talents want belt. Austin and Rock transcended wrestling in their runs and both wanted, and needed, the title to prove they were the best. It should be no different for Punk and Bryan now.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

.christopher. said:


> You know it, brother!
> 
> If Bryan and Punk hadn't joined, he'd be first choice. Would've turned him and bad a proper chickenshit heel as champion for a top babyface to beat.
> 
> Bryan may not need it, but the belt needs a star. Strap that on a star like Bryan who can keep the new fans invested, and after the new fans get used to the newer talent, have one of them beat him and establish themselves then.
> 
> Also, it doesn't matter how big of a star you are - the top talents want belt. Austin and Rock transcended wrestling in their runs and both wanted, and needed, the title to prove they were the best. It should be no different for Punk and Bryan now.


*Absolutely. You want to keep those extra 300,000 fans? Then treat Bryan like the top star he is and give him everything. It's not like he needs a year-long reign, either. If Hangman can stay hot while Bryan is champion, then you put the belt on him later down the line, but right now, you've got to keep the casuals hooked who don't know who the fuck Hangman is. Swap the names Bryan and Jericho and I'm making the same arguments I made two years ago.*


----------



## Dr. Middy

Ideally, I think they were going to go with Page winning the belt at Full Gear prior to these signing being concrete, and perhaps changed their plans once they knew 100% that both Punk and Bryan would be coming in. 

I'd be perfectly happy with Bryan being the one to dethrone Omega, then you do a storyline where Page returns and has a #1 contender match with Omega he wins, then down the line beats Bryan for the belt. It's not as direct as Page beating Omega, but allows Page to get more over by getting his big win over Omega he hasn't had and the world title as well, while also allowing any new fans to know who he is and also allowing a big star in Bryan to have the belt. 

With Punk, I don't really know if he necessarily needs the belt, and I think if they give it to both Bryan and Punk, you're 100% going to get arguments from people regarding them being too into ex-WWE guys.


----------



## DammitChrist

Honestly, I think doing Bryan Danielson vs Kenny Omega as a non-title matchup later this month with Adam Page making his return after the finish is the way to go here.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> No, Adam Page should win the AEW World championship off Kenny Omega next.
> 
> You don’t get to talk about Page “not” being hot right now, and discuss taking his huge moment away from him permanently when you can elevate the guy into an established main-eventer in just a couple of months.
> 
> Page’s angle deserves to have its conclusion. It should end with Page being the one to beat Omega for the world title.
> 
> They could still use @bdon ‘s cool idea where they do Bryan Danielson vs Kenny Omega as a non-title match soon (where the finish could be a draw).


This is where this forum falls flat a little bit, some of you guys are really smart to wrestling and come up with awesome ideas but very few are smart to the business of wrestling.

Put yourself in the shoes of a promoter, you run the local 400 seat recreation hall and it's your job every month to fill those 400 seats. You do a hundred tickets every month because you have this super over local guy who really resonates with the audience and you have a nice storyline going on but you bring in say...Matt Cardona. Cardona gets you into the local newspapers, you get on state wide radio, the fans are pumped up that Cardona is in town and he draws you an additional 200 people off his name value alone bringing your total to 300 people in a 400 seat building. You talk to Cardona afterwards and Cardona says to you he's happy to come back and be a regular if you want him to be and you know you can bring him back because he's affordable.

Do you:

1. Stick with the over local guy who does a great job but doesn't have the name power to get you all the added perks simply because he's your homegrown guy and the audience love him

Or

2. Book Cardona, bring him back, put him in a hot angle, give him the belt and continue getting that media attention, continue bringing in all those extra fans and work towards getting 400 people in that building when the feud is ready to end. Not to mention you can use Cardona to get your local guys over and also bring a sense of prestige to your promotion.

---

I can tell you that as a promoter myself it's number 2 all day and every promoter I know would do that. Same situation here, with Hangman on top nothing will change, the ratings will remain the same or drop, he'll be overshadowed by the true stars in AEW, the title run will likely be the weakest AEW ever has because he's not on the level of the other guys who have held it.

You give it to Bryan not only do you get prestige on the belt but you continue to build ratings, you have a guy that is comparable to the champions in WWE in terms of popularity, you have a guy that mainstream media wants to talk to and perhaps most importantly you have a guy that can bring you extra fans, more ratings and more money.

I personally have had many guys come my way wanting a run with my regional indy belt and I've told many guys no because them being champion would be bad for business. Tony needs to do the same.



DammitChrist said:


> Honestly, I think doing Bryan Danielson vs Kenny Omega as a non-title matchup later this month with Adam Page making his return after the finish is the way to go here.


That's just so predictable and makes Kenny look like a gigantic pussy if he loses but manages to keep the belt because reasons.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Y'all need to open up to the idea of striking while the iron is hot. They shouldn't have teased the Hangman angle on TV if they weren't going all the way with it. Now, there's way more far interesting stuff on television and the fans would not reject the idea of Bryan winning the championship.*


IMO the hangman iron is still hot enough


----------



## omaroo

Do Bryan/omega in a non title match. Only give hangman the big title win over omega. You then create a new star and main eventer. Guys like Bryan and Punk are not the future of AEW and need to be used correctly. 

BTW dynamite at Arthur Ashe is gona look fucking amazing. 

Would be awesome if they get to 20,000+ but not sure as seems ticket sales have died down for the NY show.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

.christopher. said:


> Omega needs to drop the belt to an actual star in Bryan ASAP. No more jabronis like him or potentially Hangman. Let's get back to proper stars holding the thing.


He won’t though, which would be dumb


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Martyn said:


> What's the point of giving a title to someone who just jumped in? Kenny will be even bigger if he goes over Danielson and then Hangmans title win will mean even more to him. They need to pull the trigger on the new stars, not guys like Danielson.
> 
> That being said, theres no way Danielson would get a title shot right off the bat. He should wrestle other Elite members in order to get some wins first. Similar to what Black is doing now with the Nightmare Family.


Coles promo on rampage was all about Bryan. So he will likely force Bryan to face him first


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Erik. said:


> Page got mega go away Roman Reigns heat with online wrestling fans 2 years ago because they thought he was being pushed right off the bat as their top guy.
> 
> From the ridiculous joker card and battle Royal win to then being in the first ever world title match despite their being better available.
> 
> Its a testament to him and the booking since then that those same fans now want him to be the one to finally beat Omega for that belt.
> 
> Quite frankly in this situation, fuck Bryan.


Uhhh no Bryan makes business sense. It’s a business. Hangman hasn’t brought ratings at all since he’s been there


----------



## DammitChrist

RubberbandGoat said:


> Uhhh no Bryan makes business sense. It’s a business. Hangman hasn’t brought ratings at all since he’s been there


Dude, that 10-man Elimination tag match that Adam Page was part of at Fight for the Fallen back in late July ended up receiving one of the best quarterly TV ratings in AEW’s history. 

This was pre-CM Punk debut too.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Our favorite dentist is selling out shirts, action figures, and arenas.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437261063129554946*


----------



## Erik.

RubberbandGoat said:


> Uhhh no Bryan makes business sense. It’s a business. Hangman hasn’t brought ratings at all since he’s been there


His segments and matches are regularly the highest.....


----------



## Randy Lahey

Dave made a good point that Page’s win over Omega would mean more if Omega beat Punk/Danielson first and I agree. If Omega went thru each of them at the next 2 PPVs and then Page was the one to finally beat Kenny in May 2022 it’d make Page a mega star. 

Whether Page can still be hot by then is a big question mark tho, and Kenny/Danielson really doesn’t even need a belt on the line to be a PPV match so if you are going to do that match, it’d be smart to use the belt on another match that would benefit more from it


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Omega beating Punk and Danielson, then putting Page over wouldn’t really mean much more for Page. It’d be slightly better for him, but that’s it. And at the risk of him being cooled off big time by the time we get to that match. 

You know what would actually mean more? For putting Page over, it’d be beating Omega. Then Bryan. Then CM Punk. That would be infinitely more beneficial for Page in the sense of making him a star.

Ultimately though feeding everyone who matters to one guy is the dumb shit that WWE did with Roman for years. Better to go this route:

Sting putting over Darby (as a mentor - he could probably put some heel over big time in a match which Darby then avenges, thus creating 2 stars).

Omega putting over Adam Page (story is there to make this a success).

Danielson putting over someone 

Punk putting over someone

Right there you potentially make 4-5 different stars, assuming everything works out. Which in turn could lead to the promotion feeling bigger and those wrestlers who got put over, putting over 1-2 each in the years to follow. It creates a chain that ultimately helps the company last a long time.

Plus those original stars in Punk/Danielson/Sting… it doesn’t have to be a one and done. Heck with Sting I suggested a way to make two. Punk and Danielson could each make 2-3 over the span of 3 years if booked right with compelling stories.

Of course it will involve having them go over several current talents to look strong, but if everything is done correctly it’ll make a main event scene of several wrestlers that will feel like a big deal when they compete with each other.


----------



## .christopher.

The Legit DMD said:


> *Absolutely. You want to keep those extra 300,000 fans? Then treat Bryan like the top star he is and give him everything. It's not like he needs a year-long reign, either. If Hangman can stay hot while Bryan is champion, then you put the belt on him later down the line, but right now, you've got to keep the casuals hooked who don't know who the fuck Hangman is. Swap the names Bryan and Jericho and I'm making the same arguments I made two years ago.*


& you were right then, too. So far, AEW have made the right decisions on who to make as their world champion.

Jericho made complete sense as the first as he was their biggest name and you needed him to add legitimacy to the company/title. Moxley made sense as the next guy as he was their big steal from the WWE, and the most over babyface to dethrone a star like Jericho. Before he turned into a goof, that is. Then, Omega was perfect because of not only being AEWs biggest home grown star beating the big steal from WWE, the timing was great. Using the "winter is coming" episode , which was always going to get more viewers, as the time to establish Omega as a top guy was, again, perfect.

Now, the next move should be Bryan. I would've said Punk but he's occupied with other things.


RubberbandGoat said:


> He won’t though, which would be dumb


Yep, no chance of it happening.


----------



## shandcraig

If that's the case than impact wrestling is killing it🤣🤣


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

.christopher. said:


> & you were right then, too. So far, AEW have made the right decisions on who to make as their world champion.
> 
> Jericho made complete sense as the first as he was their biggest name and you needed him to add legitimacy to the company/title. Moxley made sense as the next guy as he was their big steal from the WWE, and the most over babyface to dethrone a star like Jericho. Before he turned into a goof, that is. Then, Omega was perfect because of not only being AEWs biggest home grown star beating the big steal from WWE, the timing was great. Using the "winter is coming" episode , which was always going to get more viewers, as the time to establish Omega as a top guy was, again, perfect.
> 
> Now, the next move should be Bryan. I would've said Punk but he's occupied with other things.
> 
> Yep, no chance of it happening.


*Yep, regardless of how we feel about the handling of Omega's title reign, he was definitely the right person to win it at that time.*


----------



## Stylebender

Let me put this shit into perspective. All Out outdid money in the bank 2011 with ppv buys and a bunch of other wwe ppvs from that era in 2021 when everyone can watch for free online at the press of a button. 

I doubt the rumble could do 200k + in 2021. I dont even think mania could unless it had huge names like cena,rock etc. 

This is freaking huge.


----------



## Martyn

You cant really compare WWEs numbers nowadays, as they did disservice to the whole wrestling industry by undervaluing ppv shows for the sake of a cheap subscription system that made them lazy when it comes to creating interesting content due to stable income.

If that buy rate ends up being real, then it's a massive news. If you think about the amount of really big matches they have on their disposal this number might be topped sooner than later.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW Rampage rating for last Friday

Viewership: 670,000
18-49: 0.27

Lowest so far in both categories, moreso in the key demo than total viewers.

I think this region of high 600s to mid 700s is going to be their standard in the Friday night timeslot except for special shows.

#3 on cable behind the U.S. Open and college football.


----------



## Dark Emperor

3venflow said:


> AEW Rampage rating for last Friday
> 
> Viewership: 670,000
> 18-49: 0.27
> 
> Lowest so far in both categories, moreso in the key demo than total viewers.
> 
> I think this region of high 600s to mid 700s is going to be their standard in the Friday night timeslot except for special shows.
> 
> #3 on cable behind the U.S. Open and college football.
> 
> View attachment 108249


I guess the 1.3m from Dynamite weren't that hyped about what they saw to continue the momentum.

Back to 1.1m for Dynamite this week i think.


----------



## Makish16

Stylebender said:


> Let me put this shit into perspective. All Out outdid money in the bank 2011 with ppv buys and a bunch of other wwe ppvs from that era in 2021 when everyone can watch for free online at the press of a button.
> 
> I doubt the rumble could do 200k + in 2021. I dont even think mania could unless it had huge names like cena,rock etc.
> 
> This is freaking huge.


Last WM with buyrates

WM 30 did 700k buys +670k subs to the wwe network

WM 31 did 250k buys +1.2m subs to the wwe network

WM would do a million buys regardless on who's in the main event 

Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk


----------



## Zappers

That's 3 straight weeks of drops for Rampage. That's not too good. Guess there was a reason why CM Punk debuted on Rampage. Give it a boost(which it did)


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*I knew this would be a low rated Rampage. No one gives a fuck about a Max Castor/Brian Pillman Jr. main event, and Andrade was massively overhyped as per usual. They need to put effort into the taped shows as well. Don't give us meaningless matches just because it's taped. *


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Dark Emperor said:


> I guess the 1.3m from Dynamite weren't that hyped about what they saw to continue the momentum.
> 
> Back to 1.1m for Dynamite this week i think.


The big stars weren’t on rampage lol


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Bryan needs the title. Straight up. He can put on an open challenge every week. Would be so exciting. When was the last time there was an open challenge for the top title every week.? And it can be someone new every week and he can make them all look like a million bucks. Then finally one of them snaps and starts a feud with him


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

We're getting to what I think will be the average for Rampage. It was a weak episode, but without an actual draw on there Rampage will hover in the low-mid 600k range for awhile. Pop Bryan on there next week and watch it get high 700k/low 800k.


----------



## THANOS

Randy Lahey said:


> Dave made a good point that Page’s win over Omega would mean more if Omega beat Punk/Danielson first and I agree. If Omega went thru each of them at the next 2 PPVs and then Page was the one to finally beat Kenny in May 2022 it’d make Page a mega star.
> 
> Whether Page can still be hot by then is a big question mark tho, and Kenny/Danielson really doesn’t even need a belt on the line to be a PPV match so if you are going to do that match, it’d be smart to use the belt on another match that would benefit more from it


Putting Kenny over Punk & Bryan this early may turn away viewers. It's not a great idea if they do that.

IMO you need to get Bryan away from Kenny quick so you don't have to decide on who wins in a title match. Non-title win on Grand Slam for Bryan followed by a beatdown by Andrade & his crew to put Bryan on something else for awhile, and then you re-introduce Hangman Page to confront Omega in the same segment.

Boom, you set-up Hangman/Omega & Bryan/Andrade for Full Gear.


----------



## 3venflow

How about a time limit draw between Danielson and Omega? Or an Iron Man Match that finishes tied and no sudden death? Saves either of them losing, gives fans a dream match, and creates anticipation for an eventual rematch.

Iron Man Match for the belt would have to be 60 minutes. Non-title could be 30 minutes like Kenny vs. PAC. Kenny has had classic matches of both lengths with Okada (twice, one of them going 65 minutes) and PAC, and we know Danielson can do them.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> How about a time limit draw between Danielson and Omega? Or an Iron Man Match that finishes tied and no sudden death? Saves either of them losing, gives fans a dream match, and creates anticipation for an eventual rematch.
> 
> Iron Man Match for the belt would have to be 60 minutes. Non-title could be 30 minutes like Kenny vs. PAC. Kenny has had classic matches of both lengths with Okada (twice, one of them going 65 minutes) and PAC, and we know Danielson can do them.


*No, because we've already seen Kenny lose to Christian. He no longer has the mystique of unbeaten champion, where that would actually be effective. Now, it would be insulting to the audience's intelligence to imply that Bryan is not better than Christian, and by proxy, Kenny.*


----------



## 3venflow

The Legit DMD said:


> No, because we've already seen Kenny lose to Christian. He no longer has the mystique of unbeaten champion, where that would actually be effective. Now, it would be insulting to the audience's intelligence to imply that Bryan is not better than Christian, and by proxy, Kenny.


No one's intelligence is going to be insulted by this because wins and losses in pro wrestling are never perfectly consistent and no one is going to believe 'Christian > Bryan' if Bryan draws with Omega (who got his revenge win over Christian anyway). If we follow that A > B > C logic you can go as far as Orange Cassidy > Jericho > Hangman Page since OC beat Jericho (twice) who beat Hangman who lost to Jericho. But no one really believes OC > Hangman in the grand scheme of things.

The result would be effective in:

a). Keeping the belt on Kenny and not hotshotting it on to the hot new face (a very WWE tactic)
b). Keeping the Omega/Hangman arc in play and allowing it to wrap up
c). Doing the Omega/Danielson dream match while Danielson is still fresh in the promotion (and also creating anticipation for a future part 2)

Not giving the two-year Omega vs. Hangman storyline that has led to fans investing in Hangman's story would be closer to 'insulting the audience's intelligence' by denying them the payoff.

Hangman's story only makes sense if he is the one to end Omega's tyranny, otherwise all the lows and drawbacks, being made a fool of by the Elite, would have been for nothing.


----------



## THANOS

3venflow said:


> No one's intelligence is going to be insulted by this because wins and losses in pro wrestling are never perfectly consistent and no one is going to believe 'Christian > Bryan' if Bryan draws with Omega (who got his revenge win over Christian anyway). If we follow that A > B > C logic you can go as far as Orange Cassidy > Jericho > Hangman Page since OC beat Jericho (twice) who beat Hangman who lost to Jericho. But no one really believes OC > Hangman in the grand scheme of things.
> 
> The result would be effective in:
> 
> a). Keeping the belt on Kenny and not hotshotting it on to the hot new face (a very WWE tactic)
> b). Keeping the Omega/Hangman arc in play and allowing it to wrap up
> c). Doing the Omega/Danielson dream match while Danielson is still fresh in the promotion (and also creating anticipation for a future part 2)
> 
> Not giving the two-year Omega vs. Hangman storyline that has led to fans investing in Hangman's story would be closer to 'insulting the audience's intelligence' by denying them the payoff.
> 
> Hangman's story only makes sense if he is the one to end Omega's tyranny, otherwise all the lows and drawbacks, being made a fool of by the Elite, would have been for nothing.


I'll put on my booking cap for a moment. How about this:

At Grand Slam


Bryan Danielson vs Kenny Omega - have a time limit draw/tied Ironman epic
After the bell, the Elite come down to beat down Bryan
Christian, Jurrasic Express & Punk come down but get beat down by Bucks, Good Brothers, Adam Cole & Omega
Hangman Page returns to a massive pop to even up the side and help the baby faces stand tall

Then at Full Gear you get below:


Omega vs Page - AEW Title
Punk & Bryan vs Bucks
Cole vs Christian

- Jurrasic Express vs Good Brothers on Buy-in


----------



## Stylebender

Makish16 said:


> Last WM with buyrates
> 
> WM 30 did 700k buys +670k subs to the wwe network
> 
> WM 31 did 250k buys +1.2m subs to the wwe network
> 
> WM would do a million buys regardless on who's in the main event
> 
> Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk


You never know. The world has changed alot since 2014 and wrestling ppvs have been on the decline. Nearly 250k for aew in 2021 is incredible. Comparing it to wrestlemania isnt fair. The fact that its beaten nearly all wwe ppvs except mania, a few summerslams and rumble this decade says alot.


----------



## RapShepard

* Tracking Ratings With Rap Shepard*

Let's see the Rampage numbers without Punk

Rampage #1- 740k .31 demo

Dynamite 8/18- 975k .35 demo

Rampage #2 with Punk- 1.129 million .53 demo

Dynamite 8/25 with Punk- 1.172 million .48 demo

Rampage #3 no Punk- 722k .34 demo

Dynamite 9/1- 1.047 .37 demo

Rampage #4 with Punk- 696k .30 demo

Dynamite 9/8 with Punk, Bryan, and Cole- 1.31 million .53 demo

Dynamite #5 No Punk, Bryan, or Cole- 670k .27 demo


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> *Absolutely. You want to keep those extra 300,000 fans? Then treat Bryan like the top star he is and give him everything. It's not like he needs a year-long reign, either. If Hangman can stay hot while Bryan is champion, then you put the belt on him later down the line, but right now, you've got to keep the casuals hooked who don't know who the fuck Hangman is. Swap the names Bryan and Jericho and I'm making the same arguments I made two years ago.*


I'm of the idea that folk will watch for Bryan regardless of if he's champion or not. Because they are Bryan fans.


----------



## DammitChrist

THANOS said:


> I'll put on my booking cap for a moment. How about this:
> 
> *At Grand Slam
> *
> 
> *Bryan Danielson vs Kenny Omega - have a time limit draw/tied Ironman epic*
> *After the bell, the Elite come down to beat down Bryan*
> *Christian, Jurrasic Express & Punk come down but get beat down by Bucks, Good Brothers, Adam Cole & Omega*
> *Hangman Page returns to a massive pop to even up the side and help the baby faces stand tall*
> 
> *Then at Full Gear you get below:
> *
> 
> *Omega vs Page - AEW Title*
> *Punk & Bryan vs Bucks*
> *Cole vs Christian*
> 
> - Jurrasic Express vs Good Brothers on Buy-in


Take my freaking money right now.


----------



## 10gizzle

How many people in the USA you all think watch Dynamite illegally?


----------



## thorn123

I am not a punk or Bryan guy …I like them but they are not the be all and end all, but I don’t have a problem bringing them in … The only 2 things that is going to take AEW to WWE heights is 1) stumbling onto a new hogan or Austin or 2) lost fans giving them a fair chance. Neither will likely happen. I say this as a huge AEW fan and hope I am wrong.


----------



## Erik.

DaveRA said:


> I am not a punk or Bryan guy …I like them but they are not the be all and end all, but I don’t have a problem bringing them in … The only 2 things that is going to take AEW to WWE heights is 1) stumbling onto a new hogan or Austin or 2) lost fans giving them a fair chance. Neither will likely happen. I say this as a huge AEW fan and hope I am wrong.


The only thing taking AEW to WWE height is simply decades of being around, having some of the best talent, promoting the shows and snapping up the younger generation. All whilst snapping up huge TV deals that rival WWE.

Until 2040 comes, they're just going to have to settle with being a better product. Which for some isn't enough.


----------



## Shaun_27

Stylebender said:


> Let me put this shit into perspective. All Out outdid money in the bank 2011 with ppv buys and a bunch of other wwe ppvs from that era in 2021 when everyone can watch for free online at the press of a button.
> 
> I doubt the rumble could do 200k + in 2021. I dont even think mania could unless it had huge names like cena,rock etc.
> 
> This is freaking huge.


Mania is always going to pull massive numbers regardless of the card. I'm admittingly pulling this number out the air, but a realistic bottom for Mania has to be around 750k? Add in the big names and you get a million buys.

Having said all that, it's an incredible number for All Out. To beat Money in The Bank 2011, which was the most anticipated non-big 4 WWE PPV I can remember is special. As you say to do this a decade later is even more impressive. Depending on the estimate, it may also beat Elimination Chamber 2013 which featured CM Punk vs The Rock.


----------



## Mr316

THANOS said:


> I'll put on my booking cap for a moment. How about this:
> 
> At Grand Slam
> 
> 
> Bryan Danielson vs Kenny Omega - have a time limit draw/tied Ironman epic
> After the bell, the Elite come down to beat down Bryan
> Christian, Jurrasic Express & Punk come down but get beat down by Bucks, Good Brothers, Adam Cole & Omega
> Hangman Page returns to a massive pop to even up the side and help the baby faces stand tall
> 
> Then at Full Gear you get below:
> 
> 
> Omega vs Page - AEW Title
> Punk & Bryan vs Bucks
> Cole vs Christian
> 
> - Jurrasic Express vs Good Brothers on Buy-in


That’s exactly what I was thinking. Best possible move.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

THANOS said:


> I'll put on my booking cap for a moment. How about this:
> 
> At Grand Slam
> 
> 
> Bryan Danielson vs Kenny Omega - have a time limit draw/tied Ironman epic
> After the bell, the Elite come down to beat down Bryan
> Christian, Jurrasic Express & Punk come down but get beat down by Bucks, Good Brothers, Adam Cole & Omega
> Hangman Page returns to a massive pop to even up the side and help the baby faces stand tall
> 
> Then at Full Gear you get below:
> 
> 
> Omega vs Page - AEW Title
> Punk & Bryan vs Bucks
> Cole vs Christian
> 
> - Jurrasic Express vs Good Brothers on Buy-in


This is money


----------



## Aedubya

THANOS said:


> I'll put on my booking cap for a moment. How about this:
> 
> At Grand Slam
> 
> 
> Bryan Danielson vs Kenny Omega - have a time limit draw/tied Ironman epic
> After the bell, the Elite come down to beat down Bryan
> Christian, Jurrasic Express & Punk come down but get beat down by Bucks, Good Brothers, Adam Cole & Omega
> Hangman Page returns to a massive pop to even up the side and help the baby faces stand tall
> 
> Then at Full Gear you get below:
> 
> 
> Omega vs Page - AEW Title
> Punk & Bryan vs Bucks
> Cole vs Christian
> 
> - Jurrasic Express vs Good Brothers on Buy-in


Very nice 

Full Gear I'd go Jungleboy v Cole though


----------



## DaSlacker

DaveRA said:


> I am not a punk or Bryan guy …I like them but they are not the be all and end all, but I don’t have a problem bringing them in … The only 2 things that is going to take AEW to WWE heights is 1) stumbling onto a new hogan or Austin or 2) lost fans giving them a fair chance. Neither will likely happen. I say this as a huge AEW fan and hope I am wrong.


Worth remembering Hogan and Austin becoming that popular was also due to the WWE tapping into the fad element of the era. They had a hot new product and marketed it to perfection - Rock n Wrestling/Sports Entertainment + WWF Attitude. It was more than just the talent or charisma of that person. For a while it was built around one person too, though that changed in the 2nd boom when Austin couldn't wrestle anymore and Rock was elevated. 

You can never predict what direction society will go in and how tastes will change. Or what the children born today will be into in a decade or two. Tony Khan could find the stars simply align for him for an AEW which is nothing like we have right now. It doesn't even need to be one person. 3 or 4 top names on an equal level could equal the next Hulkamania or Austin 3:16. Or it could fizzle out and WWE makes a bunch of new stars. 

In 1990 who thought WCW would eclipse the WWF and that Vince McMahon would book an edgy product involving guys being thrown off the top of 15 foot cages. In 1996 who thought The Ringmaster would hit that big and Rocky Maivia would be the biggest star in Hollywood in 25 years time. Or that TV would eclipse movies in terms of high quality and writing. Or that a small Internet book retailer and video rental by mail company would completely change industries. Or in 2011 if you were told a woman would be one of the top 5 stars in WWE and had headlined WrestleMania.


----------



## 3venflow

Quarter hours from Rampage show the trend that will be typical of viewership dropping as they get closer to 11pm. The 10pm timeslot is bad in that regard since it's that area of the night when many go to bed.

Hence their 'main event first' idea, at least when there is a match big enough to be clearly considered the main event. The only way they might minimize this is to load the hour with unmissable content.

They need to be pushing for a Saturday night primetime slot after they move to TBS. They have the ratings and demographics to justify it surely. Even this show in this timeslot was #3 on cable and #10 on all of TV on Friday.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW is heading back to Chicago for Thanksgiving at the 11,000 capacity Wintrust Arena which they last ran for Revolution 2020 headlined by Moxley beating Jericho for the title. This will be a joint Dynamite/Rampage event.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

Hey AEW, maybe run some other cities. Chicago doesn't need 3 shows in 3 months.


----------



## THANOS

Aedubya said:


> Very nice
> 
> Full Gear I'd go Jungleboy v Cole though


My thought was Christian can afford to put over Cole, while I wouldn't want to put Cole over Jungle Boy right away. But I think that would be done for sure!


----------



## omaroo

Undertaker23RKO said:


> Hey AEW, maybe run some other cities. Chicago doesn't need 3 shows in 3 months.


Chicago is arguably their biggest market to date.

Hope we see much more diverse locations in 2022 from AEW and hopefully shows in Canada and the UK.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

#BadNewsSanta said:


> We're getting to what I think will be the average for Rampage. It was a weak episode, but without an actual draw on there Rampage will hover in the low-mid 600k range for awhile. Pop Bryan on there next week and watch it get high 700k/low 800k.


But that’s actually good for cable on a Friday night. Don’t understand why people think that’s bad. Lol look at the average on cable for Fridays lol


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

RubberbandGoat said:


> But that’s actually good for cable on a Friday night. Don’t understand why people think that’s bad. Lol look at the average on cable for Fridays lol


I don’t care vs. cable - although they are doing better than Dynamite was in same slot (though that had extra hour) so it’s not bad.


----------



## Bosnian21

3venflow said:


> AEW is heading back to Chicago for Thanksgiving at the 11,000 capacity Wintrust Arena which they last ran for Revolution 2020 headlined by Moxley beating Jericho for the title. This will be a joint Dynamite/Rampage event.
> 
> View attachment 108300


Chicago gets like their fourth or fifth show within a few months, and who knows how many shows all together, and California hasn’t even had one show yet smh


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*They want every cent from those CM Punk fans in Chicago. Can't blame them to be honest.*


----------



## DaSlacker

omaroo said:


> Chicago is arguably their biggest market to date.
> 
> Hope we see much more diverse locations in 2022 from AEW and hopefully shows in Canada and the UK.


It will be interesting to see how they handle the UK because they don't do houseshows. At this point they could sell out O2, Manchester, Birmingham, Leeds, Cardiff and Aberdeen over 7 nights. 

On the other hand they could get a record crowd by doing a PPV at Craven's Cottage. Though it would have to air at something like 2pm in the states. Then there is the weather issue. 

Though with Khan's links to the UK and the 30th anniversary of SummerSlam 1992 approaching, I can definitely see him doing something fans have been wanting for years.


----------



## 3venflow

Not a given, but AEW has a chance of winning the demo against RAW two weeks running. Although I have my doubts with the current card, it's possible.

5 of the last 8 editions of Dynamite have done higher than 0.43, but when they drop below that, they really drop below (0.35 to 0.37).

MNF as expected is eating into RAW's viewership.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437868161555124230


----------



## A PG Attitude

3venflow said:


> Not a given, but AEW has a chance of winning the demo against RAW two weeks running. Although I have my doubts with the current card, it's possible.
> 
> 5 of the last 8 editions of Dynamite have done higher than 0.43, but when they drop below that, they really drop below (0.35 to 0.37).
> 
> MNF as expected is eating into RAW's viewership.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437868161555124230


0.47 for Dynamite this week I reckon.


----------



## Whoanma

3venflow said:


> Not a given, but AEW has a chance of winning the demo against RAW two weeks running. Although I have my doubts with the current card, it's possible.
> 
> 5 of the last 8 editions of Dynamite have done higher than 0.43, but when they drop below that, they really drop below (0.35 to 0.37).
> 
> MNF as expected is eating into RAW's viewership.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437868161555124230


Has the complete card for tomorrow been announced?


----------



## 3venflow

Whoanma said:


> Has the complete card for tomorrow been announced?


Three of the usual five matches so far.

Cole vs. Kazarian
Jade vs. Hirsch
Darby vs. Spears
+ Danielson to address Omega, CM Punk to do some commentary

Has that 'week before a bigger show' feel to it, but there should still be a couple of matches added yet (maybe announced on Dark tonight?). It's a pretty weak card for the 12,000 or so they're expecting, although there will also be a Rampage taping.


----------



## DaSlacker

3venflow said:


> Three of the usual five matches so far.
> 
> Cole vs. Kazarian
> Jade vs. Hirsch
> Darby vs. Spears
> + Danielson to address Omega, CM Punk to do some commentary
> 
> Has that 'week before a bigger show' feel to it, but there should still be a couple of matches added yet (maybe announced on Dark tonight?). It's a pretty weak card for the 12,000 or so they're expecting, although there will also be a Rampage taping.


They really should just stop announcing the matches.


----------



## Not Lying

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437794446893006853
Damn...not many cared for PAC/Andrade, many didn't stick around till the end of the match. Rest of the show held steady or decline at a much slower pace.


----------



## .christopher.

Andrade is the definition of channel changer.

Get PAC the fuck away from that entertainment vacuum.


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> AEW is heading back to Chicago for Thanksgiving at the 11,000 capacity Wintrust Arena which they last ran for Revolution 2020 headlined by Moxley beating Jericho for the title. This will be a joint Dynamite/Rampage event.
> 
> View attachment 108300


How many times can they hit Chicago before they bleed it dry


----------



## rbl85

The Definition of Technician said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437794446893006853
> Damn...not many cared for PAC/Andrade, *many didn't stick around till the end of the match.* Rest of the show held steady or decline at a much slower pace.


Nothing in this tweet says that.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

RapShepard said:


> How many times can they hit Chicago before they bleed it dry


I'd say they'll get one more after this before it starts to drop.


----------



## InexorableJourney

If All Out got over 200,000 buys, that puts it at SummerSlam PPV level, and up there with virtually all of wCw's PPV buyrates.

For a company two years old, that survived in a pandemic. That is incredible.


----------



## Not Lying

rbl85 said:


> Nothing in this tweet says that.


I'm looking at the graph, the match and aftermath took about 20min, you can see the decline is immediate.


----------



## EMGESP

I have no idea why they chose that Friday time slot. Why not Saturday or literally any other day of the week besides Wed?


----------



## DammitChrist

I’d just go with Saturday evenings for Rampage. 

I HOPE the slot is temporary. 

They could EASILY get 800+ viewers on a Saturday evening for Rampage.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

EMGESP said:


> I have no idea why they chose that Friday time slot. Why not Saturday or literally any other day of the week besides Wed?


Simple, they didn't choose it.


----------



## rbl85

The Definition of Technician said:


> I'm looking at the graph, the match and aftermath took about 20min, you can see the decline is immediate.


The line on the graph does not represent minute by minute rating


----------



## Not Lying

rbl85 said:


> The line on the graph does not represent minute by minute rating


So you think Darby and Sting tanked the ratings? 
The way I look at this is that Q2 was much below Q1, half for the rest of the match and half for the Tully/Darby promo. Q2’s average was much lower, either it was consistent those 738K viewers stayed and Sting/Darby tanked the ratings in Q2 in the 500’s to have this lower average, or simply viewers declined steadily after Q1 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Not Lying

Also you people are complaining about a show on Friday at 10pm being a top 5 cable show of the day. That’s huge for TNT, they’re thrilled.


----------



## rbl85

The Definition of Technician said:


> So you think Darby and Sting tanked the ratings?
> The way I look at this is that Q2 was much below Q1, half for the rest of the match and half for the Tully/Darby promo. Q2’s average was much lower, either it was consistent those 738K viewers stayed and Sting/Darby tanked the ratings in Q2 in the 500’s to have this lower average, or simply viewers declined steadily after Q1 🤷‍♂️


We don't know or we can't know.


----------



## omaroo

You really hope the timelsot for rampage is temporary. 

It has so much potential to grow if on Saturday at 8pm or 9pm. 

Let's hope TNT realises that sooner rather than later.


----------



## zkorejo

omaroo said:


> You really hope the timelsot for rampage is temporary.
> 
> It has so much potential to grow if on Saturday at 8pm or 9pm.
> 
> Let's hope TNT realises that sooner rather than later.


Agreed. The time slot is shit. Should be aired an hour before Smackdown and not after. Maybe they will change it once aew moves to tbs.


----------



## omaroo

zkorejo said:


> Agreed. The time slot is shit. Should be aired an hour before Smackdown and not after. Maybe they will change it once aew moves to tbs.


Hope so 8-10 if two hours on Saturday would be perfect for them when on TBS.


----------



## drougfree

1.100.000 next dynamite


----------



## elo

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1438276461857808384

Prudential Center
has announced tonight is officially a sellout, 12,000+ tickets sold.


----------



## omaroo

elo said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1438276461857808384
> 
> Prudential Center
> has announced tonight is officially a sellout, 12,000+ tickets sold.


Place will be rocking. 

Hope we see 20,000+ next week.


----------



## Prosper

Going with 1.5 million and a 0.60 demo for Grand Slam. Omega vs Bryan let's go.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Grand Slam will get around 1.3-1.4 I reckon. May not get as high of a rating as people are expecting but they've got what looks to be a good show planned.


----------



## Martyn

I wouldnt be surprised if AEW would beat Raw this week again. Raw wend down to .43 and Dynamite with such a strong show should do quite well, altough I highly doubt they would come close to last weeks number.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Martyn said:


> I wouldnt be surprised if AEW would beat Raw this week again. Raw wend down to .43 and Dynamite with such a strong show should do quite well, altough I highly doubt they would come close to last weeks number.


they definitely have the momentum to beat them in the demo again

next week they might beat them in overall numbers


----------



## The_Great_One21

Baffled Punk’s 1st TV match is on Rampage and not Dynamite. That would have helped the ratings hugely.

They really have done pretty much everything to take the “mega star” shine off Punk.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The_Great_One21 said:


> Baffled Punk’s 1st TV match is on Rampage and not Dynamite. That would have helped the ratings hugely.
> 
> They really have done pretty much everything to take the “mega star” shine off Punk.


first match on rampage is the ’main event’

which is better, main event on rampage or midcard on dynamite? Cause no way is he main eventing over kenny v danielson

+ he’ll bring rampage some ratings


----------



## 3venflow

Given that it'll end at midnight, Rampage needs star power because it's very hard to sustain ratings at that time of night.


----------



## The_Great_One21

LifeInCattleClass said:


> first match on rampage is the ’main event’
> 
> which is better, main event on rampage or midcard on dynamite? Cause no way is he main eventing over kenny v danielson
> 
> + he’ll bring rampage some ratings


Being on Dynamite.

That’s the A show. He’s supposed to be A-list star. Having him main event the Rampage show is like claiming the guys back in the day who were on Smackdown were at the same level as the RAW main events.

Punk should be on the dynamite show. He won’t pop a rating on Rampage. At best it will do 800k with its timeslot.

whereas on dynamite he could help them push to the 1.5m


----------



## 3venflow

Tickets flying for the newly announced Chi-town show. Likely to be another 10,000+ crowd.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1438520244859899908


----------



## 3venflow

AEW Dynamite

Viewership: 1.175m
18-49: 0.44

#1 on cable and they beat RAW again in the 18-49 by 0.01.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Another solid rating.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Ratings will fall between 900k and 1.1 mil for their usual shows and peak a little more for big debuts and big shows. The usual.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

‘did you know, AEW Dynamite is the most watched weekly episodic tv wrestling show in the key demo, ages 18-49 on cable’?


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pssst - ‘raw with a world title match and a money in the bank cash-in could not beat a standard Dynamite in the key demo of 18-49’ - pass it around


----------



## RainmakerV2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Pssst - ‘raw with a world title match and a money in the bank cash-in could not beat a standard Dynamite in the key demo of 18-49’ - pass it around



How bout they run MNF on a Wednesday and see what happens?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*138 k drop. Next week should do better.*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1438593991000264727


----------



## Derek30

RainmakerV2 said:


> How bout they run MNF on a Wednesday and see what happens?


Good call. Going to give Goodell a shout.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Next week is going to very interesting


----------



## Joe Gill

solid rating... given the hype for next week there is a real chance it will be the highest rated Dynamite in history... they nearly got a 1.2 so 1.4+ is certainly achievable


----------



## 3venflow

Looking at the data, their total viewership this week was second best since the April show when they went unopposed for the first time. So they have done their two best total viewerships since the first unopposed show over the past two weeks. Obviously last week's was the highest at 1.319m.

As for the coveted 18-49 demo, it was their joint fifth best in the past two months so nothing extraordinary but still way higher than they used to do.

You'd expect a bump in both categories next week.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Next week will be insane.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*It's funny how the time slot wasn't an issue when a million people showed up to watch Punk and they were doing 7-800k average. Andrade is a flop, PAC isn't a draw, and the show wasn't interesting enough for people to watch, period. Having Max Castor and Brian Pillman main event a taped show was a recipe for disaster. Instant skip material. Stop making excuses when most of us knew no one wanted to watch this shit. If they put hot matches on Rampage, people will tune in. It's simple as that.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RainmakerV2 said:


> How bout they run MNF on a Wednesday and see what happens?


sorry, but as my good friend @RapShepard always says - ‘it does not matter what else is on, they should be able to draw’


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Also, how can you suggest to run Monday night football on a Wednesday? 😭 😂


----------



## rbl85

The Legit DMD said:


> *138 k drop. Next week should do better.*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1438593991000264727


Of course there was going to be a drop since last week was the first dynamite with Bryan and Cole + right after a big PPV.


----------



## Jbardo37

Theres a good chance they can do 1.4 next week.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Next week will break records


----------



## rbl85

RubberbandGoat said:


> Next week will break records


It will all depend on the women viewers.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Jbardo37 said:


> Theres a good chance they can do 1.4 next week.


*Yep. Next week's card looks better than All Out on paper. No excuses for anything below 1.3. I'm letting this week slide because the show was not bad and it was just a build for next week.*


----------



## Garty

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Also, how can you suggest to run Monday night football on a Wednesday? 😭 😂


Monday Night Football... on a Wednesday.


----------



## La Parka

RainmakerV2 said:


> How bout they run MNF on a Wednesday and see what happens?


The challenge is used as an excuse here. Could you imagine if AEW ran up against MNF? Hahahah


----------



## RubberbandGoat

The Legit DMD said:


> *Yep. Next week's card looks better than All Out on paper. No excuses for anything below 1.3. I'm letting this week slide because the show was not bad and it was just a build for next week.*


1.6 and a .55 is my prediction


----------



## reamstyles

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Also, how can you suggest to run Monday night football on a Wednesday? 😭 😂


Should be wednesday night..

But still dynamite is tbs bound once nba and nhl return


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Next week they better be very very careful how they book that main event. If Bryan loses clean then they’re fucked. Hopefully they’re smart


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1438603382680342532
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DaSlacker

Botchy SinCara said:


> Next week is going to very interesting


1,350,000 me thinks.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

82 more weeks to go to beat the record


----------



## ThunderNitro

Solid rating, but the AEW haters like Vince Russo and Disco Inferno will still find a way to poop all over anything successful regarding the company.


----------



## Outlaw91

ThunderNitro said:


> Solid rating, but the AEW haters like Vince Russo and Disco Inferno will still find a way to poop all over anything successful regarding the company.


So?


----------



## RLT1981

RubberbandGoat said:


> Next week they better be very very careful how they book that main event. If Bryan loses clean then they’re fucked. Hopefully they’re smart


its non title so Bryan better win or he is fucked I agree.


----------



## The_Great_One21

Decent number.

Such a poor choice to not have Punk wrestle on Dynamite next week. That would help do a monster. Instead sticking him on Rampage. Which at best will do 800k in a 10pm to midnight time slot.

Reckon next week does 1.3m. Could have been 1.5m in my opinion if Punk was on it.


----------



## DaSlacker

ThunderNitro said:


> Solid rating, but the AEW haters like Vince Russo and Disco Inferno will still find a way to poop all over anything successful regarding the company.


Russo and Inferno are about as irrelevant as you can get in 2021.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

A really good number. This is a top 5 viewership number for AEW, and even basically identical/slightly above (by 3k) to Punk's first Dynamite episode. This is excellent. Even if they fall back to the higher end of a 1.0xx number, that's still solid. If they start going back below 1 million, that's when something is wrong.

Next week though has no reason not to be a really strong number. Could even end up being the highest viewership for Dynamite yet. 1.2 is a lower end OK number for next week, but ideally they want higher than last week's number, and if it's really amazing this will be their best number yet. 1.5+ million isn't out of the realm of possibility, but I think that largely depends on how much of a dream match Bryan/Omega really is.


----------



## RapShepard

* Tracking Ratings With Rap Shepard*

Let's see the Rampage numbers without Punk

Rampage #1- 740k .31 demo

Dynamite 8/18- 975k .35 demo

Rampage #2 with Punk- 1.129 million .53 demo

Dynamite 8/25 with Punk- 1.172 million .48 demo

Rampage #3 no Punk- 722k .34 demo

Dynamite 9/1- 1.047 .37 demo

Rampage #4 with Punk- 696k .30 demo

Dynamite 9/8 with Punk, Bryan, and Cole- 1.31 million .53 demo

Rampage #5 No Punk, Bryan, or Cole- 670k .27 demo

Dynamite 9/15 with Punk, Cole, and Bryan- 1.175 .44 demo


LifeInCattleClass said:


> sorry, but as my good friend @RapShepard always says - ‘it does not matter what else is on, they should be able to draw’


Exactly what I say WWE knows when football comes back on they get no excuses for TV happening either. They got to step it up for Raw, Monday Night Football has been coming on for decades.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Back to back weeks beating Raw in the demo. Next week won't even be close. 3 weeks in a row. On the road to 83 and beyond!


----------



## RubberbandGoat

I’d end the show with a cliffhanger for the next show. To hook people. I’d have Bryan win then have something major happen after the match.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Randy Lahey said:


> Back to back weeks beating Raw in the demo. Next week won't even be close. 3 weeks in a row. On the road to 83 and beyond!


Bischoff can’t say he’s the only one to ever do it now


----------



## Mr316

Great number. I could see them break the record next week.


----------



## A PG Attitude

They'll definitely beat the record next week. The first stadium show featuring a main event of Omega vs Danielson will bring over a lot of viewers who have been reluctant to check out Aew.


----------



## rich110991

Is it a war yet? 😂

Of course. It’s been war since the beginning.


----------



## El Hammerstone

Good strides being made; next week's number will be very interesting to see


----------



## yeahright2

We have ratings
AEW Ratings prediction game
@3venflow did it again. Congratulations to him 

A bit lower this week, but that´s just following their trend of 1 high, then 3 low, and one high again.. But it´s worth noting that those extra 2-300K viewers Punk, Cole and Bryan brought in was an expensive purchase.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Omg what if there’s a bait and switch and the Elite attacks Bryan before the match and that’s it? Wow that would piss people off


----------



## A PG Attitude

RubberbandGoat said:


> Omg what if there’s a bait and switch and the Elite attacks Bryan before the match and that’s it? Wow that would piss people off


This is AEW not WWE.


----------



## yeahright2

RubberbandGoat said:


> Omg what if there’s a bait and switch and the Elite attacks Bryan before the match and that’s it? Wow that would piss people off


More likely Gallows/Anderson does a run-in and the match is stopped with no winner.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Expected rating. I think it will go down a bit more next week.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

NateHaas said:


> Hahaha that's never gonna happen so why even bring it up you buttfucking ****? Does aew having momentum stress you out THAT much? Than go ahead and kill yourself already. Society won't miss and your lord and savior @Chip Chipperson will probably giggle at it. So go ahead and do it you stupid assclown. 🤠🤠🤠🤠🤠


Wow, imagine being so into a TV show that you tell those who don't like everything about it to kill themselves.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

RubberbandGoat said:


> Bischoff can’t say he’s the only one to ever do it now


Um what? It's the demo not the overall rating.

A strong rating but down 10%...


----------



## La Parka

NateHaas said:


> Hahaha that's never gonna happen so why even bring it up you buttfucking ****? Does aew having momentum stress you out THAT much? Than go ahead and kill yourself already. Society won't miss and your lord and savior @Chip Chipperson will probably giggle at it. So go ahead and do it you stupid assclown. 🤠🤠🤠🤠🤠


Lol you’re such a loser, chrome.

Go sit on your ass all day bitching and moaning about a forum that humbled you in DC’s pathetic discord you stupid fuck.


----------



## Geeee

I feel like the other times Dynamite would break 1 million, the demo wouldn't be nearly this high. Maybe just an odd sample size. I think it's plausible that AEW could do it's best ever total viewers next week and yet not beat RAW in the demo. I'm not sure how we would react to that LOL.


----------



## La Parka

Chip Chipperson said:


> Wow, imagine being so into a TV show that you tell those who don't like everything about it to kill themselves.


I mean it’s chrome..

The only thing he has going for him is watching his god awful NFL team and talking to the only wrestling fans on the internet that’ll still put up with his moronic self.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

NateHaas said:


> Hahaha that's never gonna happen so why even bring it up you buttfucking ****? Does aew having momentum stress you out THAT much? Than go ahead and kill yourself already. Society won't miss and your lord and savior @Chip Chipperson will probably giggle at it. So go ahead and do it you stupid assclown. 🤠🤠🤠🤠🤠


bye


----------



## A PG Attitude

Geert Wilders said:


> Expected rating. I think it will go down a bit more next week.


Are you high?


----------



## Geert Wilders

A PG Attitude said:


> Are you high?


the initial shock and gasp is over. daniel bryan fans will resort to watching their favourite wrestlers via YT or other means.It's just the way things are now.

Does not mean the product is not good. It is on fire, right now.

you AEW shills are funny people. Somehow my post was negative in your warped mind.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Geert Wilders said:


> the initial shock and gasp is over. daniel bryan fans will resort to watching their favourite wrestlers via YT or other means.It's just the way things are now.
> 
> Does not mean the product is not good. It is on fire, right now.


I agree they have good momentum right now but if it was on fire people would want to watch live not wait until after the show to watch on YouTube.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Geeee said:


> I feel like the other times Dynamite would break 1 million, the demo wouldn't be nearly this high. Maybe just an odd sample size. I think it's plausible that AEW could do it's best ever total viewers next week and yet not beat RAW in the demo. I'm not sure how we would react to that LOL.


Oh trust me. They’ll beat Raw again. Big E won’t draw shit


----------



## Geert Wilders

Chip Chipperson said:


> I agree they have good momentum right now but if it was on fire people would want to watch live not wait until after the show to watch on YouTube.


I can disagree and agree with you on this.

I disagree because there is a lot of freedom now to watch a show when you want to. I am a big fan of a show that's on normal cable tv. But i don't watch it live. That's simply because I am busy with life. However, I will make sure i catch it later, whether it be via VOD or recorded. Does that make me less of a fan? Absolutely not. During the attitude era, my father recorded on VCR. He did not watch live. However, he would've been counted as a viewer. You wonder how many others did the same.

I agree that if the show was unmissable, it should be watched live. However, by someone choosing to watch it a bit later, it suggests they may want to skip certain segments or matches. Therefore the show is not 100% on fire.

Both sides have arguments, here.


----------



## 3venflow

Yet another press release from Warner, who must be buzzing about these 18-49 ratings.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Geert Wilders said:


> the initial shock and gasp is over. daniel bryan fans will resort to watching their favourite wrestlers via YT or other means.It's just the way things are now.
> 
> Does not mean the product is not good. It is on fire, right now.
> 
> you AEW shills are funny people. Somehow my post was negative in your warped mind.


They're doing a stadium show with omega vs Bryan there's zero possibility the rating is lower next week than this week. The only explanation for thinking that is you are high, delusional or trolling.


----------



## Geert Wilders

A PG Attitude said:


> They're doing a stadium show with omega vs Bryan there's zero possibility the rating is lower next week than this week. The only explanation for thinking that is you are high, delusional or trolling.


Sure thing kiddo. I’m not going to say zero possibility because then I might look like a complete fool next week.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Geert Wilders said:


> Sure thing kiddo. I’m not going to say zero possibility because then I might look like a complete fool next week.


You look like a fool now.


----------



## Erik.

Second week of beating Raw in the demo. Mightily impressive.

Next week will be interesting.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Decent number. Considering next week involves AEW's biggest match to date you'd wanna think they'll draw a huge number. 1.3 is ultimately my prediction though. Highly doubt they're going to break their record.


----------



## DammitChrist

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ‘did you know, AEW Dynamite is the most watched weekly episodic tv wrestling show in the key demo, ages 18-49 on cable’?


Dynamite is officially now the best weekly episodic WRESTLING show on TV too.

After what they did to NXT this week, there’s no competitor that’s even close now.


----------



## Whoanma

DammitChrist said:


> Dynamite is officially now the best weekly episodic WRESTING show on TV too.
> 
> After what they did to NXT this week, there’s no competitor that’s even close now.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *It's funny how the time slot wasn't an issue when a million people showed up to watch Punk and they were doing 7-800k average. Andrade is a flop, PAC isn't a draw, and the show wasn't interesting enough for people to watch, period. Having Max Castor and Brian Pillman main event a taped show was a recipe for disaster. Instant skip material. Stop making excuses when most of us knew no one wanted to watch this shit. If they put hot matches on Rampage, people will tune in. It's simple as that.*


Jeez, you ALWAYS want to start and push a questionable agenda in the most obnoxious way possible. 

You also can’t even hold a strong argument to save your life without pulling the “excuses” card. 

It’s pretty obvious to everyone else that Rampage would EASILY receive 800+ K viewers on a better time slot (preferably on Saturday evenings).

For the record, Pac vs Andrade El Idolo WAS a hot match. You don’t speak for everyone else just because you weren’t interested in watching some good wrestling.


----------



## 3venflow

Possible reasons next week's show does a lower P2+ rating than this week's:


World War 3 outbreak
Alien invasion
Donald Trump stages a coup at the White House

Did I miss anything?


----------



## Prosper

A little bit of a drop but a great rating nonetheless. Keep up the hot streak AEW. You love to see it.


----------



## Art Vandaley

DammitChrist said:


> For the record, Pac vs Andrade El Idolo WAS a hot match. You don’t speak for everyone else just because you weren’t interested in watching some good wrestling.


I was pumped for that match, and really enjoyed it.

Andrade and Pac are both brilliant in ring competitors and it helped show off the depth of their roster.


----------



## Whoanma

DammitChrist said:


> For the record, Pac vs Andrade El Idolo WAS a hot match.


----------



## Jedah

Tony just needs to stick with the format he used in the past two weeks. It works really well.

Next week should be a monster. Let's see if they can break their debut record.


----------



## Prosper

Jedah said:


> Tony just needs to stick with the format he used in the past two weeks. It works really well.
> 
> Next week should be a monster. Let's see if they can break their debut record.


Grand Slam will most likely be like a PPV with match after match back to back, so I don't think we will know if this is a more permanent formula until the week after. I'm also hoping that this is the new way the show flows, Rampage is REALLY helping with the talent rotations as we all expected.


----------



## burtchensen

these numbers are good shit!

now lets bring in goldberg to beat big e in seconds on monday!

seriously: lovin it! i cant imagine vince saying "nevermind with these dudes beating us 2 weeks in a row." i can hear the sirens in his head at my home. aew is on another level right now and i fn love every second of their stuff. i thought i was done with wrestling some years ago until aew came up.

all i want is enjoying wrestling shows. wwe couldnt do it most of the time the last 10 years so why not? im in. MWWEGA = make wwe great again!
cause since aew is there, wrestling already is!

PS: sorry for marking out. but ive waited too long for this.


----------



## Araxen

They better give Kenny/Daniel 25+ minutes next week. Next week is another key moment in this companies history.


----------



## TheGunnShow

Hour 3 of Raw did a .45 in the demo. Dynamite only beat Raw when you average the 3 hours out.


----------



## THANOS

TheGunnShow said:


> Hour 3 of Raw did a .45 in the demo. Dynamite only beat Raw when you average the 3 hours out.


You can probably find a moment during Dynamite that was higher than that as well, it's a moot point. You compare the average of viewers, that's standard.


----------



## bdon

TheGunnShow said:


> Hour 3 of Raw did a .45 in the demo. Dynamite only beat Raw when you average the 3 hours out.


Hahahahha


----------



## 3venflow

Latest Grand Slam ticket update. They could still release more yet and adding suites (which don't appear on ticket maps) there must be a chance of their first 20,000+ attendance.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1438672037430665217


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Man just imagine if the WWE really put the full machine behind Bryan. They could have made so much money. He clearly is the real deal


----------



## DammitChrist

RubberbandGoat said:


> Man just imagine if the WWE really put the full machine behind Bryan. They could have made so much money. He clearly is the real deal


Bryan Danielson will STILL be a big deal.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

RubberbandGoat said:


> Man just imagine if the WWE really put the full machine behind Bryan. They could have made so much money. He clearly is the real deal


Bryan can be amazing when they have him focus on more character orientated work, that heel run of his in 2018-2019 is probably the best work of his career in my opinion. I'm impressed with his promos so far, I want to see if he can be better though.


----------



## omaroo

Think 1.3 is minimum for dynamite next week. 1.4-1.5 be awesome if they can hit that. 

People shouldnt expect 1.3-1.5 every week. If they stay at 1.1-1.2 every week that's a huge success imo. 

Rampage 2 hour special next week will struggle though but if they get 800k-900k that be will be a success.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

It’ll get 1.5 next week. Come on it’s a stacked PPV like show


----------



## thorn123

Most still loyal WWE fans won't tune in
Most lapsed fans won't give it a fair go

AEW has been a showcase of wrestling yet the numbers don't show that. It should be 3-4 million IMO. Like I have said previously many times, no amount of perfect booking will change the game. Only stumbling across a new Hogan or Austin will bring those numbers.

(don't get me wrong, I am pleased their long term average is an upward trend)


----------



## omaroo

DaveRA said:


> Most still loyal WWE fans won't tune in
> Most lapsed fans won't give it a fair go
> 
> AEW has been a showcase of wrestling yet the numbers don't show that. It should be 3-4 million IMO. Like I have said previously many times, no amount of perfect booking will change the game. Only stumbling across a new Hogan or Austin will bring those numbers.
> 
> (don't get me wrong, I am pleased their long term average is an upward trend)


Anyone expecting 3 million plus from AEW is seriously deluded. Even 2 million is still impressive for smackdown all things considering. 

You just can't do those big numbers anymore in wrestling especially in the cord cutting era.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RubberbandGoat said:


> I’d end the show with a cliffhanger for the next show. To hook people. I’d have Bryan win then have something major happen after the match.


*You can almost guarantee there will be an afterbirth in AEW.*


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Jade's match was the second highest viewed segment. Bi-weekly reminder that women's wrestling draws.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1438687449996304393*


----------



## thorn123

omaroo said:


> Anyone expecting 3 million plus from AEW is seriously deluded. Even 2 million is still impressive for smackdown all things considering.
> 
> You just can't do those big numbers anymore in wrestling especially in the cord cutting era.


may be deluded, but IMO there are programs on TV far worse than Dynamite that get 3 mill


----------



## THANOS

The Legit DMD said:


> *Jade's match was the second highest viewed segment. Bi-weekly reminder that women's wrestling draws.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1438687449996304393*


Thanks for posting man. Happy to see Jade do well, she is a beast and should be the one to beat Thunder Rosa, after the latter beats Brit. A Cerberus of Brit, Jade & Rosa should be the face of AEW women for years to come. Add Paige Vanzant if she comes over and takes to it, as well.

Bryan continuing to be the top draw says it all.

Just him and Kenny this week, no Adam Cole or other Elite members to try and paint as the big draws of the segment. This proves in isolation, what kind of a draw Bryan is. We'll see what the Kenny/Bryan match next week does. I'm going to state my claim now and say it peaks as the high point of the show at 1.6M+.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

The Legit DMD said:


> *Jade's match was the second highest viewed segment. Bi-weekly reminder that women's wrestling draws.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1438687449996304393*



Still amazes me wwe let her slip through


----------



## RubberbandGoat

DaveRA said:


> Most still loyal WWE fans won't tune in
> Most lapsed fans won't give it a fair go
> 
> AEW has been a showcase of wrestling yet the numbers don't show that. It should be 3-4 million IMO. Like I have said previously many times, no amount of perfect booking will change the game. Only stumbling across a new Hogan or Austin will bring those numbers.
> 
> (don't get me wrong, I am pleased their long term average is an upward trend)


Hogan and Austin were in an era where people only had cable. Now not everyone does. It’s a new era


----------



## RubberbandGoat

The Legit DMD said:


> *You can almost guarantee there will be an afterbirth in AEW.*


What do you mean?


----------



## RubberbandGoat

The Legit DMD said:


> *Jade's match was the second highest viewed segment. Bi-weekly reminder that women's wrestling draws.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1438687449996304393*


Bryan drawing again. It’s an ongoing theme


----------



## RubberbandGoat

I’m so proud. My boy is the guy right now


----------



## the_flock

Erik. said:


> Second week of beating Raw in the demo. Mightily impressive.
> 
> Next week will be interesting.


Down nearly 30% on the demo that you all love. Down 10% in overall ratings. Yeah mightily impressive when you consider they've just brought in the biggest stars they actually could have.


----------



## the_flock

RubberbandGoat said:


> Bischoff can’t say he’s the only one to ever do it now


Nitro beat Raw in overall Ratings, not just demo. So yeah he can still say that. 

What is it with AEW fans, think the Wednesday night wars happened and now think they are going to beat 83 weeks, on a demo. Jesus wept.


----------



## the_flock

3venflow said:


> Possible reasons next week's show does a lower P2+ rating than this week's:
> 
> 
> World War 3 outbreak
> Alien invasion
> Donald Trump stages a coup at the White House
> 
> Did I miss anything?


The initial buzz of Danielson and Punk dies down.


----------



## the_flock

RubberbandGoat said:


> 82 more weeks to go to beat the record


No. When they actually beat Raws overall ratings, then they can start a streak.


----------



## the_flock

DaSlacker said:


> Russo and Inferno are about as irrelevant as you can get in 2021.


Yet everyone here talks about them daily. Go figure.


----------



## the_flock

Geert Wilders said:


> Expected rating. I think it will go down a bit more next week.


I agree. They lost 10% this week, I expect another 5 to 10% loss next week, unless they spend millions on advertising.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

the_flock said:


> I agree. They lost 10% this week, I expect another 5 to 10% loss next week, unless they spend millions on advertising.


I think it'll go up next week for the big NYC show because it's hotshotted to hell but then will proceed to drop down again.


----------



## sideon

RubberbandGoat said:


> 82 more weeks to go to beat the record


I gotta believe that y'all are either trolling or legit mentally challenged when saying stuff like this. WCW beat WWE in viewership for 84 weeks in a row, they weren't talking about demos which is such means nothing in wrestling. If demos really mattered that much then TK wouldn't be breaking the bank signing all of these people.


ThunderNitro said:


> Solid rating, but the AEW haters like Vince Russo and Disco Inferno will still find a way to poop all over anything successful regarding the company.


How is losing close to 200k people after 2 of the biggest free agent signings a solid rating? Punk & Bryan not leading to a big bump in the ratings is very troubling, because it's even more proof that people don't really care about these wrestlers once they leave.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> I think it'll go up next week for the big NYC show because it's hotshotted to hell but then will proceed to drop down again.


how is it hotshotted?

there was always big shit happening at that show


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> how is it hotshotted?
> 
> there was always big shit happening at that show


They've rushed Bryan/Kenny with very little build and are giving away a dream match on free TV just to pop a big rating.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> They've rushed Bryan/Kenny with very little build and are giving away a dream match on free TV just to pop a big rating.


i think that was always the plan though

at the very least his debut / and if he wasn’t in the main event it might’ve been Punk / Kenny

its their biggest show ever mate - they’re gonna stack the card

hotshotting would be making it for the title and Danielson winning


----------



## .christopher.

Bryan is right up there as one of my favourites of all time (I can only say Stone Cold is a certainty ahead of him in my favourites) and I've never been a big Punk fan but have always maintained that he was/is bigger than Bryan. So, what I'm saying is even though I prefer Bryan, I never thought he'd have the higher rated segments of the two. I'm pretty shocked, tbh. Even if Punk hadn't been away for 7 years I'd still be very surprised.



PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Bryan can be amazing when they have him focus on more character orientated work, that heel run of his in 2018-2019 is probably the best work of his career in my opinion. I'm impressed with his promos so far, I want to see if he can be better though.


Bryan from winning the WHC in 2011 to just before becoming partners with Kane in 2012 was my favourite version of Bryan. Great look, great work, great heel shit. He was perfect around that time as the chicken shit heel.

I was a fan long before then but that's where he proved he wasn't your generic indy working talent that many painted him as.


----------



## DaSlacker

They're running a PPV style stadium show. They've got to give the people in attendance a big match. 

From a booking standpoint it is a very similar approach to Clash of the Champions.


----------



## ThunderNitro

sideon said:


> How is losing close to 200k people after 2 of the biggest free agent signings a solid rating? Punk & Bryan not leading to a big bump in the ratings is very troubling, because it's even more proof that people don't really care about these wrestlers once they leave.


Did you expect them to do a 1.3 or above in viewership? Have you taken into account that some viewers are only interested in watching debut shows or post PPV shows?


----------



## LongPig666

I thought I was imagining it but now I'm sure I heard a voice, 3,000 miles over the Atlantic and carried by westerly winds; "*BIG E! YUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRR FIRED*"!


----------



## Martyn

Chip Chipperson said:


> They've rushed Bryan/Kenny with very little build and are giving away a dream match on free TV just to pop a big rating.


It's not the 90s anymore. That "free tv" is paying most of their bills. Nothing wrong with booking big matches on these shows. Especially when this one is on a stadium with 20k people in the attendance and when you do only 4 big ppvs a year.

Theyve got such a stacked roster that it would be a mistake to stick only to multi man tag matches. Also, doing it here doesnt mean they cant do well with it on a ppv later on for the title.


----------



## Jbardo37

Martyn said:


> It's not the 90s anymore. That "free tv" is paying most of their bills. Nothing wrong with booking big matches on these shows. Especially when this one is on a stadium with 20k people in the attendance and when you do only 4 big ppvs a year.
> 
> Theyve got such a stacked roster that it would be a mistake to stick only to multi man tag matches. Also, doing it here doesnt mean they cant do well with it on a ppv later on for the title.


100% agree with this.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Martyn said:


> It's not the 90s anymore. That "free tv" is paying most of their bills. Nothing wrong with booking big matches on these shows. Especially when this one is on a stadium with 20k people in the attendance and when you do only 4 big ppvs a year.
> 
> Theyve got such a stacked roster that it would be a mistake to stick only to multi man tag matches. Also, doing it here doesnt mean they cant do well with it on a ppv later on for the title.


200,000+ people are going to buy your PPV's if you put on an exciting enough card. This isn't TNA where the PPV buyrate is always the same.

It's shortsighted hotshot booking from TK.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> 200,000+ people are going to buy your PPV's if you put on an exciting enough card. This isn't TNA where the PPV buyrate is always the same.
> 
> It's shortsighted hotshot booking from TK.


I normally agree with you, but we had this same discussion when it came to giving away Mox/Omega on free tv at Winter is Coming when they were still 3 months from Revolution.

They popped the rating with some free advertising to the Omega/Mox story and proceeded to do the best POV buyrate in the company’s history to that point.

You can give away just enough of the Bryan/Omega match, and it be the catalyst to an awesome buyrate, especially for those that are just now seeing a Kenny Omega or a Jungle Boy or a Maxwell Jacob Friedman or a Darby Allin or whoever. That’s free advertising while leaving your audience on a cliffhanger.

“Buy the PPV, and you can see who would win when the title is on the line with more time to feel each other out. Can Omega’s stamina outlast Danielson’s onslaught? Can Danielson force Omega to slip up early? Does the title being on the line bring another level to either competitor’s competitive spirits? Omega is and has always been a big match player, can he summon it once more?”

Under normal circumstances, you don’t give away big matches on Free TV, but I believe that isn’t true when you have a body of work and reputation like Omega has with the ability to deliver a banger on command. Add Bryan to the mix, and you have the ability for these two guys to give 50-75% effort and leave the fans thinking how awesome it was, yet knowing they each have another gear or two left in them.


----------



## bdon

@Chip Chipperson, to try and be more succinct, we both know they’re going to lose some of these fans that have tuned into see Bryan in AEW, either through their own lazy booking or the fans just not wanting to engage in the weekly followings of pro-wrestling.

They have a chance here to engage some of these new eyes into sticking around, and I think you have to take that shot and trust Bryan and Omega’s ability to give enough while saving some for the PPV.

No doubt Bryan would voice his concerns if he thought it was a bad idea giving away he and Omega for free, right?


----------



## Martyn

Chip Chipperson said:


> 200,000+ people are going to buy your PPV's if you put on an exciting enough card. This isn't TNA where the PPV buyrate is always the same.
> 
> It's shortsighted hotshot booking from TK.


Their match with a bigger build would do well on a PPV down the line either way. Putting it on here creates buzz and the new fans have something to tune in for.

Also, it's not like a rematch wont do great buisness either. Okada vs Omega happend 4 times and did great. Mox and Omega had their first match on Dynamite and did record buys a couple of weeks later on ppv. Sting and Hogan had tons of matches on Nitro before their record Starrcade ppv match. Examples are endless.


----------



## DammitChrist

The demographic numbers still matter, folks.


----------



## Jaxon

can someone please explain because I have no clue, advertisers look at demo but networks look at both or just actual people watching.

thanks


----------



## A PG Attitude

The bigger your TV audience becomes, the more PPV's you'll likely sell in the future.


----------



## Martyn

The top on cable charts are being based on the 18-49 demo. That's the demographic the advertisers are willing to pay for the most, so yeah, it's all that matters.


----------



## Jaxon

A PG Attitude said:


> The bigger your TV audience becomes, the more PPV's you'll likely sell in the future.


so the overall viewer number is more important?


----------



## 3venflow

Martyn said:


> The top on cable charts are being based on the 18-49 demo. That's the demographic the advertisers are willing to pay for the most, so yeah, it's all that matters.


Yes, and this is why Warner have released press releases non-stop lately. Not because of AEW's decent but not table-topping total viewership, but their P18-49 rating. Those press releases go to the advertisers.

x,xxx,xxx total viewership definitely catches the eye more than a 0.xx number for the fans, but that 0.xx number is still what matters most and why, if AEW can sustain it, they will land a $100m+ per year TV deal when it's renewal time. And why WWE also gets monster rights deals despite their viewership declining yearly.


----------



## Martyn

3venflow said:


> Yes, and this is why Warner have released press releases non-stop lately. Not because of AEW's decent but not table-topping total viewership, but their P18-49 rating. Those press releases go to the advertisers.
> 
> x,xxx,xxx total viewership definitely catches the eye more than a 0.xx number for the fans, but that 0.xx number is still what matters most and why, if AEW can sustain it, they will land a $100m+ per year TV deal when it's renewal time. And why WWE also gets monster rights deals despite their viewership declining yearly.


Exactly. I'm surprised people are still asking those questions. If you look at the chart from the last wednsday, some program with 3 million plus landed on the 13th place and AEW with 1,1 million total was the first again. The demo pays not only AEWs bills, but it's also the major reason those cable networks make a living.


----------



## bdon

Martyn said:


> The top on cable charts are being based on the 18-49 demo. That's the demographic the advertisers are willing to pay for the most, so yeah, it's all that matters.


I wouldn’t say it is ALL that matters, because advertisers have never paid more for wrestling than other shows, and this dates back to the Monday Night Wars when BOTH programs were at the top weekly.

It is a very KEY thing they look at, but it isn’t the sole factor. It’s definitely going to be something they all look at when it comes time to re-up those contracts, though.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

The only victory that AEW has is the demo and that is it. Raw still beat them in the overall rating. If you want to have AEW beat Raw in everything, have them tie for a few weeks and then get a 1.7-1.8 M in the overall rating. That is when you can claim full victory.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

sideon said:


> I gotta believe that y'all are either trolling or legit mentally challenged when saying stuff like this. WCW beat WWE in viewership for 84 weeks in a row, they weren't talking about demos which is such means nothing in wrestling. If demos really mattered that much then TK wouldn't be breaking the bank signing all of these people.
> 
> How is losing close to 200k people after 2 of the biggest free agent signings a solid rating? Punk & Bryan not leading to a big bump in the ratings is very troubling, because it's even more proof that people don't really care about these wrestlers once they leave.


They beat them in demos. What are you on?


----------



## RubberbandGoat

.christopher. said:


> Bryan is right up there as one of my favourites of all time (I can only say Stone Cold is a certainty ahead of him in my favourites) and I've never been a big Punk fan but have always maintained that he was/is bigger than Bryan. So, what I'm saying is even though I prefer Bryan, I never thought he'd have the higher rated segments of the two. I'm pretty shocked, tbh. Even if Punk hadn't been away for 7 years I'd still be very surprised.
> 
> 
> Bryan from winning the WHC in 2011 to just before becoming partners with Kane in 2012 was my favourite version of Bryan. Great look, great work, great heel shit. He was perfect around that time as the chicken shit heel.
> 
> I was a fan long before then but that's where he proved he wasn't your generic indy working talent that many painted him as.


You think Punk is a bigger star? Lol guess to each their own


----------



## Prized Fighter

bdon said:


> I wouldn’t say it is ALL that matters, because advertisers have never paid more for wrestling than other shows, and this dates back to the Monday Night Wars when BOTH programs were at the top weekly.
> 
> It is a very KEY thing they look at, but it isn’t the sole factor. It’s definitely going to be something they all look at when it comes time to re-up those contracts, though.


I would agree that advertisers take all ratings into account when deciding where to spend their money. Especially when it come to targeting their ads. However, the one advantage that WWE and AEW have is that they are a 52 week product. TV Networks always want more content, so a show that will be there every week and delivers a top level demo number is a huge get. This is the reason WWE can cut a $1 billion deal with declining ratings.

It is also important to note the networks investment is important too. NBC paid a lot more for Raw/NXT then what Warner Media paid for Dynamite/Rampage. TNT can afford to have lower ad fees because their investment was much lower. When they cut the original Dynamite deal, TNT expected 500-600k viewers. That was likely their break-even point on what they expected to make from the ads and that is including the ad split Khan agreed to. So Warner's ROI currently is likely pretty solid.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Buffy The Vampire Slayer said:


> The only victory that AEW has is the demo and that is it. Raw still beat them in the overall rating. If you want to have AEW beat Raw in everything, have them tie for a few weeks and then get a 1.7-1.8 M in the overall rating. That is when you can claim full victory.


Ha ha


----------



## DammitChrist

Is this the 3rd week in a row that Kenny Omega’s segment happened to have the highest quarterly/demographic ratings, @bdon ? 

I know the Bryan Danielson factor helped for sure though since he’s arguably the biggest active star in the company (along with CM Punk)


----------



## Randy Lahey

Prized Fighter said:


> I would agree that advertisers take all ratings into account when deciding where to spend their money. Especially when it come to targeting their ads. However, the one advantage that WWE and AEW have is that they are a 52 week product. TV Networks always want more content, so a show that will be there every week and delivers a top level demo number is a huge get. This is the reason WWE can cut a $1 billion deal with declining ratings.
> 
> It is also important to note the networks investment is important too. NBC paid a lot more for Raw/NXT then what Warner Media paid for Dynamite/Rampage. TNT can afford to have lower ad fees because their investment was much lower. When they cut the original Dynamite deal, TNT expected 500-600k viewers. That was likely their break-even point on what they expected to make from the ads and that is including the ad split Khan agreed to. So Warner's ROI currently is likely pretty solid.



Bottomline is AEW doing this high of demo while getting paid 1/4 of what Raw gets is going to either cause AEW to get a massively higher deal on their next re-up, or it’ll cause Raw to get a massively lower deal when they re-up, or both.


----------



## Prized Fighter

Randy Lahey said:


> Bottomline is AEW doing this high of demo while getting paid 1/4 of what Raw gets is going to either cause AEW to get a massively higher deal on their next re-up, or it’ll cause Raw to get a massively lower deal when they re-up, or both.


Correct. It is possible that both happen and everything equals out. AEW best play is to wait for WWE to set the market and then start negotiating off of that. 

Also, WWE already agreed to the WWE Network deal with Peacock/NBC. It will depends on how long that deal is for. If their TV deal and Peacock agreement come up at the same time, then NBC may be willing to pay a premium lump sum to renew the whole thing.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

RubberbandGoat said:


> They beat them in demos. What are you on?


The demo hasn't mattered until 2019 when Dave Meltzer started mentioning it to give AEW wins all the time and AEW went with it.

Overall rating is the win Nitro did, overall rating is what AEW is going to have to do to "beat" RAW although even then it'd be debatable since WCW was beating WWE's top show whilst AEW would be beating WWE's second top show.



Randy Lahey said:


> Bottomline is AEW doing this high of demo while getting paid 1/4 of what Raw gets is going to either cause AEW to get a massively higher deal on their next re-up, or it’ll cause Raw to get a massively lower deal when they re-up, or both.


It won't.

TV people don't look at just numbers and go "AH GIVE THEM ANOTHER FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS! THEY BEAT RAW IN THE DEMOGRAPHIC!".

So much more goes into it. WWE gets the big money because it is the premier wrestling brand, it has Vince McMahon who is the most successful wrestling promoter/producer of all time, it has a staff with a hundred years or more experience, an internationally recognised brand and if wrestling ever booms again it will be because of them. They also made just under a billion dollars for the year globally last year during the global pandemic.

You then go over to AEW, it's a growing brand, it has Tony Khan who is a relative unknown calling the shots, the staff has never really achieved anything as a unit, is popular mainly with smart marks and generally only pops a huge rating when they spend millions of dollars on a huge star and goes back down 2-3 weeks later. They also lost money last year.

You then look at statistics for wrestling fans, most are pretty broke with the better of the bunch being on average or slightly above average salaries. You've got guys in your audience shitting their pants (AEW), having girls gag when they lift their arms on your airwaves (AEW), Mike Tyson yawning on live television (AEW), crazy stalkers (WWE) etc.

If you were a TV exec that makes the decisions would you keep funnelling this company money? I'd give them as little they'd accept because the audience isn't an attractive audience to market to and the brand isn't really known.


----------



## Martyn

Chip Chipperson said:


> The demo hasn't mattered until 2019 when Dave Meltzer started mentioning it to give AEW wins all the time and AEW went with it.
> 
> Overall rating is the win Nitro did, overall rating is what AEW is going to have to do to "beat" RAW although even then it'd be debatable since WCW was beating WWE's top show whilst AEW would be beating WWE's second top show.
> 
> 
> 
> It won't.
> 
> TV people don't look at just numbers and go "AH GIVE THEM ANOTHER FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS! THEY BEAT RAW IN THE DEMOGRAPHIC!".
> 
> So much more goes into it. WWE gets the big money because it is the premier wrestling brand, it has Vince McMahon who is the most successful wrestling promoter/producer of all time, it has a staff with a hundred years or more experience, an internationally recognised brand and if wrestling ever booms again it will be because of them. They also made just under a billion dollars for the year globally last year during the global pandemic.
> 
> You then go over to AEW, it's a growing brand, it has Tony Khan who is a relative unknown calling the shots, the staff has never really achieved anything as a unit, is popular mainly with smart marks and generally only pops a huge rating when they spend millions of dollars on a huge star and goes back down 2-3 weeks later. They also lost money last year.
> 
> You then look at statistics for wrestling fans, most are pretty broke with the better of the bunch being on average or slightly above average salaries. You've got guys in your audience shitting their pants (AEW), having girls gag when they lift their arms on your airwaves (AEW), Mike Tyson yawning on live television (AEW), crazy stalkers (WWE) etc.
> 
> If you were a TV exec that makes the decisions would you keep funnelling this company money? I'd give them as little they'd accept because the audience isn't an attractive audience to market to and the brand isn't really known.


Dude, when Turner Networks is bragging about AEWs top on cable success in official statements, they're not basing it on Wrestling Observer writing about it since 2019 lol. They're doing it every time they're no 1 on cable in the demo in 2021, not some Nitro metrics from 25 years ago.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Martyn said:


> Dude, when Turner Networks is bragging about AEWs top on cable success in official statements, they're not basing it on Wrestling Observer writing about it since 2019 lol. They're doing it every time they're no 1 on cable in the demo in 2021, not some Nitro metrics from 25 years ago.


Yeah, I'd brag about a success on my network also. It's called marketing.

Becomes much different when it comes time for Turner Networks to put their money where their mouths are and pay up. They will only give AEW more money if they are confident of its growth, do you think it will grow? They are already down to 1.1 million which is around the same they were doing before Bryan, Cole and Punk all debuted.


----------



## 3venflow

Well, the current deal has an option for TNT to extend the contract for 2024 “at a significantly increased price.”

At the time the current deal was inked (January 2020), Dynamite was doing 800-900k in the P2+ and 0.34 to 0.38 in the P18-49.

Currently, they are doing 1m to 1.3m in the P2+ and 0.37 to 0.52 in the P18-49. They are also producing more content for Warner with Rampage, next year's quarterly specials on TNT, and three to four new shows *in addition to* Rhodes reality show that are in development (no one knows what they are yet). So that means AEW may have seven or eight properties across the Warner network by the time they negotiate a new deal. As opposed to one when the deal was signed.

One thing that is certain is they're getting more than $43.75m-per-year next time they renew. I'd bet my house on this. How much more is not something I and most of us here are qualified to know for sure.

Networks continue to chase the 18-49s, even though that demographic has been turning its nose up at live cable in recent years. Every industry site and report you read backs this up, hence why it is still referred to as the key (or coveted) demo.

I don't see how RAW's 18-49 audience is any more special than AEW's 18-49 audience. WWE certainly has the brand advantage and a higher P2+, but $265m vs. $43.75m feels very disproportionate. RAW is signed up for *six* times more income than Dynamite, despite being neck-and-neck in the key demographic.

When these deals were signed, I doubt anyone expected Dynamite to be beating RAW in the 18-49 this soon. AEW is ahead of its own expectations at this point in its young history and Tony Khan has said as much. The company value is also approaching half a billion now, which is crazy for such a young brand.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Well, the current deal has an option for TNT to extend the contract for 2024 “at a significantly increased price.”
> 
> At the time the current deal was inked (January 2020), Dynamite was doing 800-900k in the P2+ and 0.34 to 0.38 in the P18-49.
> 
> Currently, they are doing 1m to 1.3m in the P2+ and 0.37 to 0.52 in the P18-49. They are also producing more content for Warner with Rampage, next year's quarterly specials on TNT, and three to four new shows *in addition to* Rhodes reality show that are in development (no one knows what they are yet). So that means AEW may have seven or eight properties across the Warner network by the time they negotiate a new deal.
> 
> One thing that is certain is they're getting more than $43.75m-per-year next time they renew. I'd bet my house on this. How much more is not something I and most of us here are qualified to know for sure.
> 
> Networks continue to chase the 18-49s, even though that demographic has been turning its nose up at live cable in recent years. Every industry site and report you read backs this up, hence why it is still referred to as the key (or coveted) demo.
> 
> I don't see how RAW's 18-49 audience is any more special than AEW's 18-49 audience. WWE certainly has the brand advantage and a higher P2+, but $265m vs. $43.75m feels very disproprtionate. RAW is signed up for *six* times more income than Dynamite, despite being neck-and-neck in the key demographic.


imagine what TK will pull out of his hat with ‘a significant increase in price’ - if what he brought us at the current price was cm punk, danielson and venues like arthur ashe

he might hold a show on mars or some shit


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

1.1 million was lowest quarter. That’s great, and overall quarter breakdown nearly matches what last week’s had (this week had a Q1-2 dip though). 

Really good breakdown as a whole.


----------



## Martyn

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah, I'd brag about a success on my network also. It's called marketing.
> 
> Becomes much different when it comes time for Turner Networks to put their money where their mouths are and pay up. They will only give AEW more money if they are confident of its growth, do you think it will grow? They are already down to 1.1 million which is around the same they were doing before Bryan, Cole and Punk all debuted.


AEW Dynamite had been ranked number 1 on cable for a couple of weeks now. Those are independent public charts. Not private TNT lists. Those are _facts_, so they will obviously brag about it. They are paying 5 times less what USA feeds WWE for Raw to get similar results.

Your total viewership numbers doesnt matter here at all and it had been proven in this topic numerous times.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> The demo hasn't mattered until 2019 when Dave Meltzer started mentioning it to give AEW wins all the time and AEW went with it.
> 
> Overall rating is the win Nitro did, overall rating is what AEW is going to have to do to "beat" RAW although even then it'd be debatable since WCW was beating WWE's top show whilst AEW would be beating WWE's second top show.
> 
> 
> 
> It won't.
> 
> TV people don't look at just numbers and go "AH GIVE THEM ANOTHER FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS! THEY BEAT RAW IN THE DEMOGRAPHIC!".
> 
> So much more goes into it. WWE gets the big money because it is the premier wrestling brand, it has Vince McMahon who is the most successful wrestling promoter/producer of all time, it has a staff with a hundred years or more experience, an internationally recognised brand and if wrestling ever booms again it will be because of them. They also made just under a billion dollars for the year globally last year during the global pandemic.
> 
> You then go over to AEW, it's a growing brand, it has Tony Khan who is a relative unknown calling the shots, the staff has never really achieved anything as a unit, is popular mainly with smart marks and generally only pops a huge rating when they spend millions of dollars on a huge star and goes back down 2-3 weeks later. They also lost money last year.
> 
> You then look at statistics for wrestling fans, most are pretty broke with the better of the bunch being on average or slightly above average salaries. You've got guys in your audience shitting their pants (AEW), having girls gag when they lift their arms on your airwaves (AEW), Mike Tyson yawning on live television (AEW), crazy stalkers (WWE) etc.
> 
> If you were a TV exec that makes the decisions would you keep funnelling this company money? I'd give them as little they'd accept because the audience isn't an attractive audience to market to and the brand isn't really known.


Then why does Nielsen rank them in terms of 18-49?


----------



## DaSlacker

Randy Lahey said:


> Bottomline is AEW doing this high of demo while getting paid 1/4 of what Raw gets is going to either cause AEW to get a massively higher deal on their next re-up, or it’ll cause Raw to get a massively lower deal when they re-up, or both.


Hopefully but not necessarily. Networks are a bit weird and WWE sells itself as a bigger entity. For example, the number of social media followers, the licensing partners like Mattel and THQ, the long running nature of Raw and SmackDown. Plus the McMahon's are so tried and tested and have close ties to the likes of Rupert Murdoch and Donald Trump. 

It will be very interesting to see what happens.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> Then why does Nielsen rank them in terms of 18-49?


Because it's the most important demographic but nobody has ever cared about it in a wrestling sense since 2019 and the launch of Dynamite.

I still feel strongly that demographic doesn't even matter in wrestling because the audience isn't attractive to most advertisers.


----------



## Martyn

It does matter, otherwise WWE wouldnt been able to close billion tv deals and TNT wouldnt take a chance with AEW.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Because it's the most important demographic but nobody has ever cared about it in a wrestling sense since 2019 and the launch of Dynamite.
> 
> I still feel strongly that demographic doesn't even matter in wrestling because the audience isn't attractive to most advertisers.


When in the last 20 years has their been anyone putting any competition into the WWE’s stranglehold of ANY ratings, overall or demos? The fact that AEW LAUNCHED within ear shot likely is enough reason for anyone, Meltzer or not, to begin looking at the demo and saying, “Oh shit. We may have a growing competition within a couple of years, fellas.”

The Monday Night Wars was 20 fucking years ago. Did Dave have such easy access to the 18-49 demographics back then, or did Nielsen themselves simply post the overall?

There are lots of reasons 18-49 only became a part of the narrative in 2019, and you’re right that part of it is Uncle Dave wanting AEW to do well. But I also gave you reasons beyond that.

It isn’t a big deal, but it does suggest WWE slowly losing market share in that demo specifically, and with time, that could lead to losing its stranglehold on the overall viewership.


----------



## Garty

Chip Chipperson said:


> The demo hasn't mattered until 2019 when Dave Meltzer started mentioning it to give AEW wins all the time and AEW went with it.
> 
> 
> 
> The demo has mattered for years, long before AEW was a dream. Myself and others have pointed this out to those who questions this "lie" every week.
Click to expand...


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Even dubdubE used to crow about the demo to point out the fact they were outperforming nfl in the 2010s

’did you know the wwe is the highest rated sports program on A monday in the key demo’ blah blah… they used to do those ‘did you know’ spots all the time


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Even dubdubE used to crow about the demo to point out the fact they were outperforming nfl in the 2010s
> 
> ’did you know the wwe is the highest rated sports program on A monday in the key demo’ blah blah… they used to do those ‘did you know’ spots all the time


I do remember these ads playing on TV all the time, @Chip Chipperson .


----------



## sideon

RubberbandGoat said:


> They beat them in demos. What are you on?


What drugs are you on? Bischoff was not bragging about beating WWE in the demos, he was bragging about beating them in viewership you know the thing that actually matters. It's truly amazing how Meltzer & Jericho really have y'all believing that demos > total viewership, btw WWE still has a massive 18-49 demo and they lead in all the other demos as well. The way y'all rationalize AEW losing viewers ever week being a good thing is hilarious.


LifeInCattleClass said:


> Even dubdubE used to crow about the demo to point out the fact they were outperforming nfl in the 2010s
> 
> ’did you know the wwe is the highest rated sports program on A monday in the key demo’ blah blah… they used to do those ‘did you know’ spots all the time


And it didn't matter because the NFL was getting 5x the viewers RAW was getting every monday, and they had bigger sponsors than the WWE as well.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> I do remember these ads playing on TV all the time, @Chip Chipperson .


I don't remember but I haven't watched WWE in 14 years.


----------



## Randy Lahey

sideon said:


> What drugs are you on? Bischoff was not bragging about beating WWE in the demos, he was bragging about beating them in viewership you know the thing that actually matters. It's truly amazing how Meltzer & Jericho really have y'all believing that demos > total viewership, btw WWE still has a massive 18-49 demo and they lead in all the other demos as well. The way y'all rationalize AEW losing viewers ever week being a good thing is hilarious.
> 
> And it didn't matter because the NFL was getting 5x the viewers RAW was getting every monday, and they had bigger sponsors than the WWE as well.


Demo is the only thing that matters. If demos didn’t matter, then USA and TNT and every other channel would be running nothing but Cable news since every news station dwarfs the actual audience of regular cable shows.


All you WWE marks need to just stay on the WWE board. Nobody here cares how many 50+ year olds watch Raw. Advertisers don’t either.


----------



## DammitChrist

The demographic numbers matter just as much as the overall viewership numbers


----------



## Joe Gill

Demos are extremely important. Not just for advertisers and tv deals but for the companies as well. How many 60 year olds are going to buy wrestling video games? t shirts and figures? attend live shows? tell their friends and tweet about wrestling? Right now more young men in the US are interested in AEW than WWE. That is a huge victory for AEW since that particular demographic is the most likely to spend money on pro wrestling. Most people in this forum are in the 18-49 male demo. Would you rather watch a product that is being viewed by people of similar age or by people in their 60s? Hannity gets about 3 million viewers a night....and is almost entirely seniors that are watching it. That type of news doesnt appeal to younger people. The WWE is starting to have a similar problem where its mostly kids and seniors that are watching the product and young men are switching to AEW. So bragging that more seniors watch RAW is a pretty lame argument.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> I don't remember but I haven't watched WWE in 14 years.


I haven’t watched, other than that Sting appearance, in…we’ll ever.

But living in the states, you’d get those commercials constantly.


----------



## 3venflow

5,700 tickets sold in pre-sale + day one for the Wintrust Arena show in Chicago on 11/24. Current configuration is for 6,730 but I expect they'll gradually increase that after filling the main areas since Revolution 2020 did around 11,000 there.

Update: More than 5,700 in fact.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1439027906706038787


----------



## RubberbandGoat

3venflow said:


> 5,700 tickets sold in pre-sale + day one for the Wintrust Arena show in Chicago on 11/24. Current configuration is for 6,730 but I expect they'll gradually increase that after filling the main areas since Revolution 2020 did around 11,000 there.
> 
> Update: More than 5,700 in fact.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1439027906706038787


They’re selling out everywhere. Wow!


----------



## ProjectGargano

Chip Chipperson said:


> I think it'll go up next week for the big NYC show because it's hotshotted to hell but then will proceed to drop down again.


Thank god you were always wrong


----------



## Chip Chipperson

ProjectGargano said:


> Thank god you were always wrong


Yeah, just like I was wrong about the rating dropping after CM Punk's debut, right?

Oh wait...


----------



## Jonhern

bdon said:


> I wouldn’t say it is ALL that matters, because advertisers have never paid more for wrestling than other shows, and this dates back to the Monday Night Wars when BOTH programs were at the top weekly.
> 
> It is a very KEY thing they look at, but it isn’t the sole factor. It’s definitely going to be something they all look at when it comes time to re-up those contracts, though.


Correct, total viewership still matters to the network because of distribution fees paid to them by cable companies so the more popular shows they have the more they can charge cable companies to be in their package. But it's not the most important thing, or else they would just go for shows with lots of total viewers that skew to older demos. Fox news would be the most lucrative station but it's not, ESPN is because they get big viewers and big demos. 

And yes back in the 90s they talked about total viewers because cable was different back then, the demos didn't start becoming important for cable until the early 2000s, it mattered more for networks before then. That's the only reason USA can call Monday night raw the number one show on Cable all through the 2000s because they are talking about the demo charts. If they went by viewers raw would not have been number 1.


----------



## 3venflow

WWE and AEW UBS Arena shows are going to be interesting as I believe it will be the first time they have run the same buildings so close together (or at least since crowds came back). Right now, AEW is way ahead.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1439273273536040961


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah, just like I was wrong about the rating dropping after CM Punk's debut, right?
> 
> Oh wait...


Yeah, cos nobody else saw that coming. Get the fuck over yourself.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Yeah, cos nobody else saw that coming. Get the fuck over yourself.


I had about ten people arguing otherwise, Reggie. Settle down, big fella.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Chip Chipperson said:


> I had about ten people arguing otherwise, Reggie. Settle down, big fella.


*And then point to the demo and ticket sales when they're wrong, as per usual.*


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *And then point to the demo and ticket sales when they're wrong, as per usual.*


As usual, you can’t handle being wrong whenever the objective individuals accurately point out to you the active ticket sales, and the demographic numbers (which DO matter btw).


----------



## ProjectGargano

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah, just like I was wrong about the rating dropping after CM Punk's debut, right?
> 
> Oh wait...


Oh that one you don´t have to be an expert to guess. And of course, Grand Slam will establish a peak in their audiences for some time, you don´t have to be an expert to know that.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Tony Khan himself says Britt Baker is largely responsible for the ratings spike.


 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1439397040644055043
It's just another Wednesday for the

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1439056846560632838*


----------



## omaroo

Britt to me is the most complete package in wrestling right now. 

I would put her above sasha banks, Charlotte and becky personally. 

I'm sure thunder Rosa will be up there again when we see much more of her also.


----------



## DaSlacker

omaroo said:


> Britt to me is the most complete package in wrestling right now.
> 
> I would put her above sasha banks, Charlotte and becky personally.
> 
> I'm sure thunder Rosa will be up there again when we see much more of her also.


Make Baker an EVP and then have Cole tear apart The Elite from within. The Cole-Baker Regime lol.

The WWE women have suffered from bipolar booking. Too much jumping between playing to the fans and then insulting the fans, backstabbing other women then saving other women. 

Not to say AEW doesn't have booking weaknesses too. But Baker, Rosa, Riho, Statlander and Shida have more clearly defined, consistent personalities.


----------



## THANOS

This was a fun listen. Will certainly piss off some posters here, but I'm posting it regardless.


----------



## zkorejo

THANOS said:


> This was a fun listen. Will certainly piss off some posters here, but I'm posting it regardless.


Hes not wrong though. There's a reason why they put Roman and Usos on Raw for their next show. They are not liking aew beating them in demos one bit. Regardless of who it pisses it off here. It's very clearly the case.

Edit: Also completely agree with the point made about demo/overall in the rankings. There's a reason why shows are ranked based on demos. Yet some people are in denial thinking that 50+ bloat is somehow a good thing for their business.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

zkorejo said:


> Hes not wrong though. There's a reason why they put Roman and Usos on Raw for their next show. They are not liking aew beating them in demos one bit. Regardless of who it pisses it off here. It's very clearly the case.
> 
> Edit: Also completely agree with the point made about demo/overall in the rankings. There's a reason why shows are ranked based on demos. Yet some people are in denial thinking that 50+ bloat is somehow a good thing for their business.


*Roman has been advertised for RAW since at least September 6th. It's not a last-minute panic decision. If you want to cite All Out, go for it, but it was well before they got the demo number.*


----------



## zkorejo

The Legit DMD said:


> *Roman has been advertised for RAW since at least September 6th. It's not a last-minute panic decision. If you want to cite All Out, go for it, but it was well before they got the demo number.*


I didn't know that, I heard of it first on Smackdown. Even if that's the case though, making Orton vs Lashley for the title out of nowhere and having Big E cashing in last week is definitely not something they planned. 

Lashley and MVP were probably supposed to challenge for raw tag titles and instead they did a world title match to create buzz.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

zkorejo said:


> I didn't know that, I heard of it first on Smackdown. Even if that's the case though, making Orton vs Lashley for the title out of nowhere and having Big E cashing in last week is definitely not something they planned.
> 
> Lashley and MVP were probably supposed to challenge for raw tag titles and instead they did a world title match to create buzz.


*That is correct.*


----------



## Prosper

zkorejo said:


> I didn't know that, I heard of it first on Smackdown. Even if that's the case though, making Orton vs Lashley for the title out of nowhere and having Big E cashing in last week is definitely not something they planned.
> 
> Lashley and MVP were probably supposed to challenge for raw tag titles and instead they did a world title match to create buzz.


I read somewhere that Big E had no idea he was winning the title until the night of. But that is pretty consistent with how RAW is run as far as Vince reportedly tearing up scripts.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW Rampage rating for last Friday:

Total viewership: 642,000
18-49: 0.28

Drop in total viewership from last week, slight rise in the 18-49.

#2 on cable, #5 on TV overall.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> AEW Rampage rating for last Friday:
> 
> Total viewership: 642,000
> 18-49: 0.28


not bad, not bad


----------



## omaroo

Ok I guess for the timeslot they are in. 

Just the regular norm I imagine going forward for Rampage until they move to a different time and day.

This weeks rampage I see being between 750k-800k though.


----------



## Not Lying

The thing with Rampage, most of the matches were reliant on a one-sided star power.

Miro vs Fuego?
Lucha Brothers vs Butcher & Blade?

Those 2 are very predictable matches that nobody is gona go out of their way to see.

And Anna Jay vs Bunny...yeah ok.

Even next week...it's either one-sided

*Punk* vs Hobbs
*Y2J and Hager* vs MoTY
*Lucha and PnP* vs HFO

or meaningless 6 men matches like Bucks and Cole vs Christian and JE.


----------



## Aedubya

Good for a card of 3 with only one being really anticipated


----------



## Zappers

That's 4 straight weeks of ratings drops for Rampage. 

Need to turn that around.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Zappers said:


> That's 4 straight weeks of ratings drops for Rampage.
> 
> Need to turn that around.


oh, i think coming friday will do fine


----------



## Zappers

LifeInCattleClass said:


> oh, i think coming friday will do fine


What's happening on Friday?


----------



## Mr316

Very fine number. It will be up this Friday.


----------



## Zappers

Never mind. I see AEW is going all out and bringing the big guns for Friday Rampage. Smart move, they see the writing on the wall. Should give a bump in the ratings.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Zappers said:


> Never mind. I see AEW is going all out and bringing the big guns for Friday Rampage. Smart move, they see the writing on the wall. Should give a bump in the ratings.


it was a planned show mate - stadium booked before the first rampage

rampage will always be up and down i think


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The card wasn't great for Rampage, so I guess it's a fine number.

This week though needs to do more. Although it is a 2 hour show/will go to midnight for Eastern Timezone, with the promotion and CM Punk match it needs to at least do better than what will be the likely normal average for Rampage.


----------



## Randy Lahey

The Definition of Technician said:


> Even next week...it's either one-sided
> 
> *Punk* vs Hobbs
> *Y2J and Hager* vs MoTY
> *Lucha and PnP* vs HFO


I’d be very surprised if MOTY don’t win. Why would Jericho/Hager win? They been building MOTY up with Dan Lambert for a long time now. Their first real match under his leadership should for sure be a win.

Also Dave said the Mox/Kingston vs Suzuki/Archer match is going to be a Lights Out Unsanctioned match. Last one AEW did (that was taped like this one will be) was Britt/Rosa and it was awesome so I’d expect that match to bring in a ton of views Friday.


----------



## Prosper

Being that Rampage ends at midnight this Friday, they will probably put Punk/Hobbs on first with the 6 man tag with Adam Cole and Jungle Boy going on 2nd. Then they'll probably main event with the Lights Out match.


----------



## 3venflow

Good start, weak finish last week. Perhaps the drop-off % from Q1 to Q4 was a little higher than usual. The main event was basically a Dark squash match with a storyline though.


----------



## yeahright2

There´s Rampage ratings
AEW Ratings prediction game
Only one player last week, so @Prized Fighter wins without contest 

As expected, another drop. The interest of news has worn off already, but that was to be expected.


----------



## reamstyles

Randy Lahey said:


> I’d be very surprised if MOTY don’t win. Why would Jericho/Hager win? They been building MOTY up with Dan Lambert for a long time now. Their first real match under his leadership should for sure be a win.
> 
> Also Dave said the Mox/Kingston vs Suzuki/Archer match is going to be a Lights Out Unsanctioned match. Last one AEW did (that was taped like this one will be) was Britt/Rosa and it was awesome so I’d expect that match to bring in a ton of views Friday.


Simple the moty are mid card feeders for jericho, dont see buff bagwell put over flair or hogan or sting even in 1995


----------



## reamstyles

Will rampage keep its tnt timeslit once nba on tnt comes along ( or tnt doesnt have friday nba unless its playoffs?)


----------



## Garty

reamstyles said:


> Will rampage keep its tnt timeslit once nba on tnt comes along ( or tnt doesnt have friday nba unless its playoffs?)


Both Dynamite and Rampage are moving to TBS in the US, January 2022.


----------



## RapShepard

* Tracking Ratings With Rap Shepard*

Let's see the Rampage numbers without Punk

Rampage #1- 740k .31 demo

Dynamite 8/18- 975k .35 demo

Rampage #2 with Punk- 1.129 million .53 demo

Dynamite 8/25 with Punk- 1.172 million .48 demo

Rampage #3 no Punk- 722k .34 demo

Dynamite 9/1- 1.047 .37 demo

Rampage #4 with Punk- 696k .30 demo

Dynamite 9/8 with Punk, Bryan, and Cole- 1.31 million .53 demo

Rampage #5 No Punk, Bryan, or Cole- 670k .27 demo

Dynamite 9/15 with Punk, Cole, and Bryan- 1.175 .44 demo

Rampage #6 no Punk, Cole, or Bryan - 642k .28 demo


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> * Tracking Ratings With Rap Shepard*
> 
> Let's see the Rampage numbers without Punk
> 
> Rampage #1- 740k .31 demo
> 
> Dynamite 8/18- 975k .35 demo
> 
> Rampage #2 with Punk- 1.129 million .53 demo
> 
> Dynamite 8/25 with Punk- 1.172 million .48 demo
> 
> Rampage #3 no Punk- 722k .34 demo
> 
> Dynamite 9/1- 1.047 .37 demo
> 
> Rampage #4 with Punk- 696k .30 demo
> 
> Dynamite 9/8 with Punk, Bryan, and Cole- 1.31 million .53 demo
> 
> Rampage #5 No Punk, Bryan, or Cole- 670k .27 demo
> 
> Dynamite 9/15 with Punk, Cole, and Bryan- 1.175 .44 demo
> 
> Rampage #6 no Punk, Cole, or Bryan - 642k .28 demo


please Rap, include dvr+7 when you can

we’re interested in the important rating


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> please Rap, include dvr+7 when you can
> 
> we’re interested in the important rating


You find a site I shall include this novelty stat


----------



## 3venflow

Full Gear update:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1440140312022700034


----------



## Botchy SinCara

We saw what dynamite did in that slot ..Rampage is gonna be 450k-600k on average if they stay there no way any show kills in that death slot ..either way its top 5 on cable so i dont know if thats good or not

honestly I would just bite the bullet and have it go head to head with the either hour of SD


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

3venflow said:


> Full Gear update:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1440140312022700034


YES


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

They have the opportunity for a huge viewership bump this week, possible they beat their all time record, I don't personally think they will, but they absolutely can. I predict around the high 1.3 range


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> oh, i think coming friday will do fine


Loading a card with big matches and big stars isn't indicative of what the true audience is. It'll boost up for the week then drop again.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Loading a card with big matches and big stars isn't indicative of what the true audience is. It'll boost up for the week then drop again.


well, no shit

but it is indicative of what a big show rampage is - and I think we can agree it seems like they'll do those once a month

so, its a 1/4 the norm


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> The thing with Rampage, most of the matches were reliant on a one-sided star power.
> 
> Miro vs Fuego?
> Lucha Brothers vs Butcher & Blade?
> 
> Those 2 are very predictable matches that nobody is gona go out of their way to see.
> 
> And Anna Jay vs Bunny...yeah ok.
> 
> Even next week...it's either one-sided
> 
> *Punk* vs Hobbs
> *Y2J and Hager* vs MoTY
> *Lucha and PnP* vs HFO
> 
> or meaningless 6 men matches like Bucks and Cole vs Christian and JE.


*Well, it took over 3 weeks, but Rampage is exactly what we thought it'd be months ago: a televised extension of AEW Dark. There's no other reason besides the show content being consistent garbage for the rating to be plummeting. We've already seen them do significantly better numbers with good to great shows, so that death slot nonsense is out the window. Like I said during the NBA playoffs, when you put trash on TV, you get trash ratings. They're back to not trying and it's reflecting in the number.*


----------



## thorn123

You can’t have marquee matchups in every contest on every show … simple mathematics says the roster cannot handle that.

It was a good show 7/10, and still better than pretty much anything else on tv and should rate higher.


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *Well, it took over 3 weeks, but Rampage is exactly what we thought it'd be months ago: a televised extension of AEW Dark. There's no other reason besides the show content being consistent garbage for the rating to be plummeting. We've already seen them do significantly better numbers with good to great shows, so that death slot nonsense is out the window. Like I said during the NBA playoffs, when you put trash on TV, you get trash ratings. They're back to not trying and it's reflecting in the number.*


Any taped episodes of Rampage are going to be filler episodes, because they fear leaks. No other explanation for it.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

bdon said:


> Any taped episodes of Rampage are going to be filler episodes, because they fear leaks. No other explanation for it.


*Just because a show is taped doesn't mean you shouldn't try at all. *


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Just because a show is taped doesn't mean you shouldn't try at all. *


Watchu talkin bout - it was a good show


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *Just because a show is taped doesn't mean you shouldn't try at all. *


Well, now we’re back to the pandemic argument, which I totally agree with you. If you have a show on television, then you can’t waste it on excuses.

They earned some benefit of the doubt with how they came out of the pandemic guns blazing, so I’m biting my tongue until the move to TBS.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

AEW Rampage numbers have lowered consistently every week, except for Punk’s debut. Last 3 episodes have gone down 26-28k each.

This week’s episode shouldn’t go down, or at the very least when we get the quarterly breakdown the first hour should be better.

The only good thing about last week’s Rampage is it started stronger than prior week. Though the main event was the worst viewed one of the few shows. A glorified squash match shouldn’t be main eventing (unless they really are going the route of consistently putting the main event match first… in which case we should expect Punk/Hobbs to open this week’s show). But yeah, they would’ve been better off putting Britt/Ruby at the end. It likely would’ve still dropped from Q3, but I think advertising the segment and closing the show with it would have kept more fans interested than another obvious Miro/Fuego match with little build.


----------



## DaSlacker

DaveRA said:


> You can’t have marquee matchups in every contest on every show … simple mathematics says the roster cannot handle that.
> 
> It was a good show 7/10, and still better than pretty much anything else on tv and should rate higher.


WWE have been booking a 50/50 marquee match on nearly every Raw and SmackDown for 20+ years. It's partly to blame for their lack of star power and reliance on nostalgia.


----------



## Not Lying

The Legit DMD said:


> *Well, it took over 3 weeks, but Rampage is exactly what we thought it'd be months ago: a televised extension of AEW Dark. There's no other reason besides the show content being consistent garbage for the rating to be plummeting. We've already seen them do significantly better numbers with good to great shows, so that death slot nonsense is out the window. Like I said during the NBA playoffs, when you put trash on TV, you get trash ratings. They're back to not trying and it's reflecting in the number.*


Yeah it's obvious they're not really trying. The only difference vs Dark is that you do get stars on Rampage, but they're mostly wrestling newbies or nobodies.

I could do with one match like that, like Garcia vs Mox, or Garcia vs Darby, but it seems every match has this predictable unequal star power.

Ruby and DMD broke the trend and increased ratings during their quarter (when it usually continues to go down in that time slot) with a barely advertised segment. Why? Something on line, an established star and a new one.

Miro could be facing so many more interesting and credible people.


----------



## Prized Fighter

Over 20,000


----------



## 3venflow

They have pretty much opened every possible seat for Grand Slam now. Those blue seats available are obstructed views and marked as such, but some people might snap them up due to the low prices.

Suites don't appear on ticket maps so I think they may announce 20,000. This is going to be a million dollar gate.

Rampage has been announced for the Target Center on November 12, one day before Full Gear. That basically confirms that Full Gear will also be held at the Target Center which can seat around 20,000 (maybe less with the stage). Apparently, Dynamite won't be at the Target Center that week so it'll be a double header rather than the triple header they did in Chicago for All Out.










November 3 edition of Dynamite is a return to Kansas at the Cable Dahmer Arena, which hosted the 2/26/20 edition of Dynamite with that epic Omega vs. PAC iron man match. It drew 3,700 that day but can seat 5,800-plus.


----------



## Not Lying

Nice. The Kansas show should show good indication on their growth after 2 years in a similar market.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> Yeah it's obvious they're not really trying. The only difference vs Dark is that you do get stars on Rampage, but they're mostly wrestling newbies or nobodies.
> 
> I could do with one match like that, like Garcia vs Mox, or Garcia vs Darby, but it seems every match has this predictable unequal star power.
> 
> *Ruby and DMD broke the trend and increased ratings during their quarter* (when it usually continues to go down in that time slot) with a barely advertised segment. Why? Something on line, an established star and a new one.
> 
> Miro could be facing so many more interesting and credible people.


*TURN THAT UP!!!







*


----------



## Not Lying

No lies @The Legit DMD


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1440076958017077252
+28K for Ruby/DMD


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1432748219159793672
-37K


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1427685916592726024
-46K


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1436329109043490820
+43 for the Kris/Reba & Hayter w/ Britt


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437794446893006853
and the only time a Britt segment lost viewers, it was still the smallest decline for the that quarter ( -17K)


Also notice how the debut episode with DMD defending is the only with a bump for the main event.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Raw got 0.49 this week. Dynamite should comfortably beat that with a stadium show.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

A PG Attitude said:


> Raw got 0.49 this week. Dynamite should comfortably beat that with a stadium show.


0.49 is no small number

i think they’ll Do 0.47


----------



## 3venflow

0.49 is a tough target to beat. It'd require Dynamite's second best demo rating of the year and third best ever (debut show still being number one). It's possible with the card, but not a definite.


----------



## RapShepard

Raw averaged

1.79 million viewers .49 demo

Dynamite last 9/15 1.17 million viewers .44 demo 

Can Omega vs Bryan cause a jump of 622k fans and a demo boost it .05


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Raw averaged
> 
> 1.79 million viewers .49 demo
> 
> Dynamite last 9/15 1.17 million viewers .44 demo
> 
> Can Omega vs Bryan cause a jump of 622k fans and a demo boost it .05


they can maaaaybe pull off the .05 - but i doubt it


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> they can maaaaybe pull off the .05 - but i doubt it


I put it in the other thread, but I think they can catch them. My logic is the first 2 hours of Raw 8-10 did a .51 before the third hour dropped the average heavy and I can see this card having a similar amount attention from the demo. You got Bryan vs Omega with nice side dishes of Cody vs Black and Ruby vs Britt. I could see them doing it especially with momentum and fans been anticipating the show.


----------



## omaroo

I personally don't see them beating the demo this week but hope I'm wrong


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> I put it in the other thread, but I think they can catch them. My logic is the first 2 hours of Raw 8-10 did a .51 before the third hour dropped the average heavy and I can see this card having a similar amount attention from the demo. You got Bryan vs Omega with nice side dishes of Cody vs Black and Ruby vs Britt. I could see them doing it especially with momentum and fans been anticipating the show.


the determining factor will be Bryan - who is making the jump over to watch him

he’s been doing a lot of press today. If it climbs by that much, we can thank Danielson


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Man tomorrow is gonna be something else


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the determining factor will be Bryan - who is making the jump over to watch him
> 
> he’s been doing a lot of press today. If it climbs by that much, we can thank Danielson


I think Bryan reasonably is on par with Reigns as a tune in to watch star. So I wouldn't be surprised at all. Him vs Omega seems like just as big of match demo wise as New Day vs Bloodline.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> I think Bryan reasonably is on par with Reigns as a tune in to watch star. So I wouldn't be surprised at all. Him vs Omega seems like just as big of match demo wise as New Day vs Bloodline.


agreed, so if they don’t jump to watch

some WWE fans have to ask themselves ‘are we really as unhappy with wwe as we pretend online’ 

because the real answer would be ‘nope’ 

i mean, this is Danielson vs Omega - how can you not watch?


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> agreed, so if they don’t jump to watch
> 
> some WWE fans have to ask themselves ‘are we really as unhappy with wwe as we pretend online’
> 
> because the real answer would be ‘nope’
> 
> i mean, this is Danielson vs Omega - how can you not watch?


So basically they're Drake online lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> So basically they're Drake online lol


lollll, basically


----------



## Prized Fighter

I wonder what effect having a local show does to the rating for a particular city. Like would the viewership in New York increase a good amount for a New York show? When CM Punk debut, the TV ratings in Chicago were insanely high, but that is also CM Punk in Chicago. New York has the largest population of any city in the US by a huge margin. Also, SmackDown had their highest rating of the year for their Madison Square Garden show. Arthur Ashe feels like a bigger deal then that SmackDown and is being promoted around the city. That could really push the rating up high.

I don't expect them to cross 1.7 million or so, but they could catch Raw's demo again.


----------



## DaSlacker

RapShepard said:


> Raw averaged
> 
> 1.79 million viewers .49 demo
> 
> Dynamite last 9/15 1.17 million viewers .44 demo
> 
> Can Omega vs Bryan cause a jump of 622k fans and a demo boost it .05


----------



## Prosper

Beating RAW's 0.49 in the demo is gonna be difficult for sure. I think they can pull it off though.


----------



## zkorejo

RapShepard said:


> Raw averaged
> 
> 1.79 million viewers .49 demo
> 
> Dynamite last 9/15 1.17 million viewers .44 demo
> 
> Can Omega vs Bryan cause a jump of 622k fans and a demo boost it .05


Damn. Throwing everything good together for one episode paid off for WWE. I don't think Dynamite wins the demo this week. Should still be a great number regardless.


----------



## bdon

zkorejo said:


> Damn. Throwing everything good together for one episode paid off for WWE. I don't think Dynamite wins the demo this week. Should still be a great number regardless.


And how do they build off that hotshot booking? You already showed the fans how important Lashley and Big E really are by how things ended Monday.


----------



## .christopher.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the determining factor will be Bryan - who is making the jump over to watch him
> 
> he’s been doing a lot of press today. If it climbs by that much, we can thank Danielson


If it climbs that much and Bryan doesn't go over CLEAN, AEW will have shot themselves in the foot.

They've already shot themselves in one foot by not having this for the title so an actual star in Bryan can hold the gold, so this will be the other foot that gets a bullet.


----------



## zkorejo

bdon said:


> And how do they build off that hotshot booking? You already showed the fans how important Lashley and Big E really are by how things ended Monday.


They don't think long term. Yes a week is long term for WWE. They will throw shit at the wall again next week if need be.

They probably just wanted this week's (because big aew show) demos for bragging rights so that USA network doesn't whip their asses too hard in the next meeting.


----------



## Botchy SinCara




----------



## Not Lying

Botchy SinCara said:


> View attachment 108941


This is just TK inviting his rich friends 😉


----------



## 3venflow

Apparently, all the suites are either sold out or comped. So I guess that's 90 suites times however many people are in each.

This is pretty insane:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1440758878635921416


----------



## Basvicii

3venflow said:


> Apparently, all the suites are either sold out or comped. So I guess that's 90 suites times however many people are in each.
> 
> This is pretty insane:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1440758878635921416


Think I read somewhere the suite's can hold up to 20 in each, so max would be 1,800. 

Hope they break the 20k barrier!


----------



## drougfree

1300-1400 at best


----------



## Aedubya

1.3


----------



## Mr316

The buzz was definitely there on social media. I’m gonna say 1.38.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Prediction: 1.45M but also beats Raw on demo


----------



## 3venflow

Last two shows have been AEW's #1 and #4 most attended shows ever.

WrestleTix has printed the attendance minus suites (which are presumably what took it over 20k) but here is the Dynamite attendance chart.

Next week they are in Rochester and over 6,200 tickets had been sold as of a few days ago. Facility is configured for ca. 8,000 fans.


----------



## Stevieg786

1.6 for last night please


----------



## THANOS

Stevieg786 said:


> 1.6 for last night please


That would be so nice to see! 

I'm hoping for over 1.3 but if it managed to land 1.6, that would be insane.


----------



## Prosper

Hopefully they hit at least 1.5mil with a 0.5 demo.


----------



## omaroo

I would be shocked if they don't get close to 1.3 million at least. For such a big show that should be the minimum I would say.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Anything over 1.3 is very good IMO
Anything over 1.4 would be great 
Anything above that would be a massive shock to me, honestly 

Hopefully demo of around 0.50


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Out of interest sake - 5 of the top 10 AEW youtube vids by views is occupied by Orange Cassidy

4 of the top 5

Mox 3 / of which Kenny is in 1 too and jericho in the other

1 jericho and 1 cm punk


----------



## A PG Attitude

1.54 Mill with a 0.57 demo


----------



## PavelGaborik

1.3 million is my prediction. 

Demo .48


----------



## just_one

Gonna go all out

1.58 with a 0.6 demo!!


----------



## Not Lying

I'm gona go with 1.44m and 0.51 demo


----------



## Dizzie

1.2 I say


----------



## RainmakerV2

Anything under 1.4 would be pretty disappointing


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RainmakerV2 said:


> Anything under 1.4 would be pretty disappointing


oh rilly?

will you be disappointed?


----------



## RainmakerV2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> oh rilly?
> 
> will you be disappointed?


They should be. Or is Omega vs. Bryan in front of their biggest crowd ever not supposed to be a huge deal that would bring in around 200k more viewers?


----------



## Botchy SinCara

After all out and last night I can't think anything else they could do to gane more views


----------



## Fearless Viper

When's the rating?


----------



## 3venflow

AEW Dynamite rating

Total viewership: 1,273,000
18-49: 0.48

3rd highest Dynamite ever in both viewership and 18-49.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1441128317382324229

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Fearless Viper




----------



## RainmakerV2

Thats not great for the hype.


----------



## Fearless Viper

So they can't outdraw The Tribal Chief who fought against massive football night?


----------



## EmbassyForever

Solid rating, the breakdown should be interesting.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RainmakerV2 said:


> They should be. Or is Omega vs. Bryan in front of their biggest crowd ever not supposed to be a huge deal that would bring in around 200k more viewers?


it should - if it didn’t then the wwe stockholm syndrome is much deeper than originally thought and i would hope we never read a complaint again in the wwe section


----------



## 3venflow

Cable ratings in full with Dynamite at number one again.

That M18-49 rating is actually insane. Over double anything else on cable.

Again, the females hold them back from the full potential. Can't even blame the WWE-leaning boomers this week, since the 50+ was strong.


----------



## Outlaw91

Not bad but I expected more because of the hype. 
I personally didn't enjoy the show that much, except for the opener.


----------



## RapShepard

Botchy SinCara said:


> After all out and last night I can't think anything else they could do to gane more views


Just keep doing what they're doing. They got the pieces, they just need to find the right story to captivate more people to come in.


----------



## RainmakerV2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it should - if it didn’t then the wwe stockholm syndrome is much deeper than originally thought and i would hope we never read a complaint again in the wwe section



It didn't.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> AEW Dynamite rating
> 
> Total viewership: 1,273,000
> 18-49: 0.48
> 
> 3rd highest Dynamite ever in both viewership and 18-49.


mmm - i thought 1.35

still not bad


----------



## Mr316

I’m sure they were hoping for a little better but it’s still a very good number.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RainmakerV2 said:


> It didn't.


c‘est la vie

peeps must he happy with wwe then - and that is ok too 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Jedah

A good number but a little disappointing considering all the hype.

The wild card rule! It's such good shit!


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

That's a bit of a disappointment. Oh well. As long as they keep trending up.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Last week was a better episode. It was too soon after a ppv to do a tv special. To make Danielson vs anyone trigger a 1.5 rating, it has to be the main event, it has to be a title match, and you have to build it for three months at least. There was no dream match here because the first time it came out of anyone's mouth on tv was seven days ago.

Here's the real deal. This match happened because everyone thinks Danielson should be champion. And that is why this match should have been teased out for December or January in my opinion. The result should have been the title change. You know what fans want-- tease it. Give them blue balls. Make them expect it. Make them watch for it.


----------



## TheGreatBanana

AEW has still yet to come close to their debut numbers. It’s a problem because for the recent hype they’ve gotten recently, the viewership isn’t reaching the level they got on their debut show.

They aren’t going to grow on Wednesdays. You’ve debut Punk, Bryan, given Bryan vs Omega. What else can they do that is as big as these. They need to switch nights and counter program against Raw or Smackdown. Monday would be ideal as they have a decent shot of taking away viewers from Raw. Dynamite going against Raw would bring a new level of excitement among the fans. The ones who support AEW will tune in to help Dynamite beat Raw in the ratings.


----------



## 3venflow

Wonder if this affected the total viewership in any way like MNF with Raw. No idea which of the 'many premiers' would eat into Dynamite since I don't have US network TV.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1441131286165274628


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Cable ratings in full with Dynamite at number one again.
> 
> That M18-49 rating is actually insane. Over double anything else on cable.
> 
> Again, the females hold them back from the full potential. Can't even blame the WWE-leaning boomers this week, since the 50+ was strong.
> 
> View attachment 109021


its so strange - looking at that list. What would people describe as ‘mainstream‘ on there

the sports stuff here and there, sure - but what else?

isn’t wrestling then by defacto mainstream?


----------



## Buhalovski

If this show can't beat their first one then I dont know what


----------



## fabi1982

Not that it matters, but not even 100k increase for what everyone called „the greatest dynamite in history“ is not good and there is no twist to that. 

But when I am honest, the show didnt deserve more. BD/Omega was awesome, but other than that I was not even sports entertained…


----------



## RapShepard

* Tracking Ratings With Rap Shepard*

Let's see the Rampage numbers without Punk

Rampage #1- 740k .31 demo

Dynamite 8/18- 975k .35 demo

Rampage #2 with Punk- 1.129 million .53 demo

Dynamite 8/25 with Punk- 1.172 million .48 demo

Rampage #3 no Punk- 722k .34 demo

Dynamite 9/1 - 1.047 .37 demo

Rampage #4 with Punk- 696k .30 demo

Dynamite 9/8 with Punk, Bryan, and Cole- 1.31 million .53 demo

Rampage #5 No Punk, Bryan, or Cole- 670k .27 demo

Dynamite 9/15 with Punk, Cole, and Bryan- 1.175 million .44 demo

Rampage #6 no Punk, Cole, or Bryan - 642k .28 demo

Dynamite 9/22 Bryan vs Omega- 1.273 million .48 demo


----------



## rich110991

Nothing wrong with the number. Great result.


----------



## RogueSlayer

They put on a PPV calibre show and only did 1.2 million viewers Vince and Nick Kahn we're right AEW isn't competition.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Oh no, lost to Raw by 0.1 in the demo war lol

Decent enough number IMO but getting to 1.3 and 0.5 would've made it look better 

I think we expect too much at times, talking about 1.5's etc


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Mask singer here putting everyone to shame lol


----------



## RapShepard

I think the order of the show obviously hurt the rating. Can't imagine there wasn't a mass exodus after Omega vs Bryan and it never really recovered. Because that small of a bump just doesn't make sense given the genuine hype.


----------



## Derek30

The Masked Singer. Jesus.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pentagon Senior said:


> Oh no, lost to Raw by 0.1 in the demo war lol
> 
> Decent enough number IMO but getting to 1.3 and 0.5 would've made it look better
> 
> I think we expect too much at times, talking about 1.5's etc


lol - i took the 0.01 win last week, i’ll take the 0.01 loss this week

the nice thing is…. People admit there is a competition all of a sudden


----------



## Pentagon Senior

TheGreatBanana said:


> AEW has still yet to come close to their debut numbers. It’s a problem because for the recent hype they’ve gotten recently, the viewership isn’t reaching the level they got on their debut show.
> 
> They aren’t going to grow on Wednesdays. You’ve debut Punk, Bryan, given Bryan vs Omega. What else can they do that is as big as these. They need to switch nights and counter program against Raw or Smackdown. Monday would be ideal as they have a decent shot of taking away viewers from Raw. Dynamite going against Raw would bring a new level of excitement among the fans. The ones who support AEW will tune in to help Dynamite beat Raw in the ratings.


Didn't SmackDown do like 4 million on their debut though? And only half of that now? I don't really think that's the best way to judge, they'll always settle somewhere beneath that debut number.

AEW's numbers are perfectly healthy for a promotion in their position IMO (as are SmackDown's by the way).



RapShepard said:


> I think the order of the show obviously hurt the rating. Can't imagine there wasn't a mass exodus after Omega vs Bryan and it never really recovered. Because that small of a bump just doesn't make sense given the genuine hype.


I think the number is fine but I agree it would've been bigger if you made people wait for that main event. Still think it was a strange decision 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol - i took the 0.01 win last week, i’ll take the 0.01 loss this week
> 
> the nice thing is…. People admit there is a competition all of a sudden


Yup lol, all is fair in love and war


----------



## Mr316

I’m sure they opened the show with a high rating. Here’s what I would of done:

Move the women championship match to Rampage and put Punk vs Hobbs in the Dynamite main event.

I’m sure they lost viewers throughout the show. Viewers would of kept watching knowing Punk is in the main event.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Pentagon Senior said:


> Oh no, lost to Raw by 0.1 in the demo war lol
> 
> Decent enough number IMO but getting to 1.3 and 0.5 would've made it look better
> 
> I think we expect too much at times, talking about 1.5's etc


Whys it expecting too much? You had almost the biggest match you could put on on it. Punks there. Sting and Allin are there. Cody and Black are there. Baker is there. I mean, what else do you want?


Ohhhh there was other stuff on TV. Funny. There was no asterisk that said *MNF ran at the same time btw * when AEW won the demo. But nowwwwww lol.


----------



## RapShepard

Botchy SinCara said:


> View attachment 109022
> 
> 
> 
> Mask singer here putting everyone to shame lol


It's like that show never ends came out in 2019 it's already on season 6


----------



## CovidFan

Disappointing to me but I'm sure TNT's happy to have the #1 show so my opinion's irrelevant. AEW's still a success and that's good for the pro wrestling landscape.


----------



## fabi1982

3venflow said:


> Wonder if this affected the total viewership in any way like MNF with Raw. No idea which of the 'many premiers' would eat into Dynamite since I don't have US network TV.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1441131286165274628


A 3.8 doesnt count for RAW and people made fun of the 200k increase despite this competition and the many other premieres didnt interest anyone when it comes to anything else..why do these journalists have to be so obviously up AEWs ass? Why not search for the reason in the actual show?


----------



## TheGreatBanana

RogueSlayer said:


> They put on a PPV calibre show and only did 1.2 million viewers Vince and Nick Kahn we're right AEW isn't competition.


They’re firing all their cylinders only to get 1.2million viewership. They are repeating the same nonsense WCW did when they gave away big PPV level matches on free TV. Goldberg beating Hogan was historic, but WCW would’ve filled up the Silverdome had they booked it for a PPV event.

AEW isn’t even going against Raw for them to be doing all this. It would’ve been more worth if they did everything against Raw and to beat them in the ratings. Then that would have gotten all the press. It’d get a lot of people talking and through word of mouth that’s how you increase viewership. AEW’s popularity is stuck within the wrestling echo chamber and people are confusing that for AEW being super popular when it is not.


----------



## Joe Gill

what a stupid decision to put the most anticipated match in AEW history to lead off the show. TK is a great promoter but a horrible booker. You have to build buzz and anticipation for the main event. Imagine rock vs austin as the opening match of wm 17. or connor mcgreggor opening match of a ufc ppv. TK keeps making this same stupid mistake ad having people like brock anderson in the main event. Same thing yesterday... Ruby Soho had no business being in the main event.


----------



## kazarn

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1438595718097211394


----------



## holy

There is too much wrestling on the show. They really need to start having more segments and promos. Not every fan wants to watch 30 minute wrestling matches.


----------



## Fearless Viper

fabi1982 said:


> A 3.8 doesnt count for RAW and people made fun of the 200k increase despite this competition and the many other premieres didnt interest anyone when it comes to anything else..why do these journalists have to be so obviously up AEWs ass? Why not search for the reason in the actual show?


Exactly, man.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Roman stains on here and twitter need to calm down ..dude still didn't increase raw that much and a 0.01 difference isn't much 

That being said I expected better for the show ..maybe their gamble of having Bryan and Omega open the show will end up helping by having new eyes at the start


The quarterly break down should be Interesting


----------



## reamstyles

Survivor had its premiere today although not as compelling as Mnf..


----------



## RainmakerV2

kazarn said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1438595718097211394




LOL


----------



## RapShepard

kazarn said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1438595718097211394


They're killing him in the comments


----------



## fabi1982

And even if there were more premieres? Is it really an excuse that people would love to see the same show for a new season and NOT THE BIGGEST DYNAMITE IN HISTORY? If this doesnt interest people to turn in, what would?


----------



## RainmakerV2

Let the coping commence


----------



## Pentagon Senior

RainmakerV2 said:


> Whys it expecting too much? You had almost the biggest match you could put on on it. Punks there. Sting and Allin are there. Cody and Black are there. Baker is there. I mean, what else do you want?
> 
> 
> Ohhhh there was other stuff on TV. Funny. There was no asterisk that said *MNF ran at the same time btw * when AEW won the demo. But nowwwwww lol.


I didn't mention other stuff on TV btw, the number is what it is. 

I just think people pluck these figures from nowhere that's all and we tend to get ahead of ourselves as fans. Nothing wrong with that but just saying it should get 1.5 or 1.6 million doesn't make it so. What's that even based on, you know. 

Not long ago they were doing 700-800k against NXT, then less than 1 million after NXT, then circa 1.1 million with live crowds, now they've done around 1.3 million twice post Bryan/Punk. It's a healthy upward trend. 

I still would have liked to see a little higher from last night but I'm not seeing it as signs of doom, as some will.


----------



## reamstyles

Aew is the new nxt who caters the indy smark audience ( plus attitude era version wrestling(90s wrestling fans)).. while nxt become a pure developmental brand who will try to cater gen z audience


----------



## reamstyles

Again mnf kills tge demo in monday, something that aew should nit have problem competing..


----------



## rbl85

I ignored a shit tons of dumbass in a few seconds dang


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Pentagon Senior said:


> I didn't mention other stuff on TV btw, the number is what it is.
> 
> I just think people pluck these figures from nowhere that's all and we tend to get ahead of ourselves as fans. Nothing wrong with that but just saying it should get 1.5 or 1.6 million doesn't make it so. What's that even based on, you know.
> 
> Not long ago they were doing 700-800k against NXT, then less than 1 million after NXT, then circa 1.1 million with live crowds, now they've done around 1.3 million twice post Bryan/Punk. It's a healthy upward trend.
> 
> I still would have liked to see a little higher from last night but I'm not seeing it as signs of doom, as some will.


.yeah they are definitely up from this time last year and been on a streak lately but feels like with Punk and Bryan they should be doing more ..they have the buzz and mains stream coverage 

This time last year they were not even in the conversation with raw


----------



## Jbardo37

It’s a little disappointing but not a bad rating by any means.


----------



## Jedah

holy said:


> There is too much wrestling on the show. They really need to start having more segments and promos. Not every fan wants to watch 30 minute wrestling matches.


They figured the format out in the two weeks before Grand Slam. Good mixture of matches and promos. This was a special night though.


----------



## EmbassyForever

kazarn said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1438595718097211394


?

COULD.

And he was right lol


----------



## RainmakerV2

Pentagon Senior said:


> I didn't mention other stuff on TV btw, the number is what it is.
> 
> I just think people pluck these figures from nowhere that's all and we tend to get ahead of ourselves as fans. Nothing wrong with that but just saying it should get 1.5 or 1.6 million doesn't make it so. What's that even based on, you know.
> 
> Not long ago they were doing 700-800k against NXT, then less than 1 million after NXT, then circa 1.1 million with live crowds, now they've done around 1.3 million twice post Bryan/Punk. It's a healthy upward trend.
> 
> I still would have liked to see a little higher from last night but I'm not seeing it as signs of doom, as some will.



It's based on the fact that they've signed the two biggest free agents possible and are feeding younger talent to them, (I mean RAMPAGE SPOILERS ahead maybe but I think we know who wins Punk vs. Hobbs) and they're still below their debut number even with a supercard in front of 20,000.


----------



## 3venflow

rbl85 said:


> I ignored a shit tons of dumbass in a few seconds dang


Acknowledge ur TriBaL cHiEf!










One thing I find funny is that every time AEW set a new milestone, the narrative changes. A year ago it was 'they will never hit a million regularly', then it becomes 'they must never fall below a million'. They MUST meet these peoples' self-created targets otherwise they are failing. The fact they are even competing with WWE for the key demographic and live event audiences after two years is astonishing. To downplay their success is silly. They're improving in every metric pretty much and are a certified success.

The rational view: They did their second best ratings since the debut show and continue to have strong forward momentum. Just because *you* say they 'must' draw 1.5m doesn't make it disappointing when they don't. This is, after all, cable in 2021, which fewer people than ever watch, and they are roasting the competition on there. And did the best non-WWE attendance in North America since 1999 with a gate higher than most of WCW's.


----------



## ProjectGargano

fabi1982 said:


> Not that it matters, but not even 100k increase for what everyone called „the greatest dynamite in history“ is not good and there is no twist to that.
> 
> But when I am honest, the show didnt deserve more. BD/Omega was awesome, but other than that I was not even sports entertained…


It was still their third best show ever in terms of viewership.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Acknowledge ur TriBaL cHiEf!
> 
> View attachment 109025
> 
> 
> One thing I find funny is that every time AEW set a new milestone, the narrative changes. They MUST meet these peoples' self-created targets otherwise they are failing. The fact they are even competing with WWE for the key demographic and live event audiences after two years is astonishing. To downplay their success is silly. They're improving in every metric pretty much and are a certified success.
> 
> The rational view: They did their second best ratings since the debut show and continue to have strong forward momentum. Just because *you* say they 'must' draw 1.5m doesn't make it disappointing when they don't. This is, after all, cable in 2021, which fewer people than ever watch, and they are roasting the competition on there. And did the best non-WWE attendance in North America since 1999 with a gate higher than most of WCW's.


its so silly, but i chuckle a little every time i see this online


----------



## reamstyles

Botchy SinCara said:


> .yeah they are definitely up from this time last year and been on a streak lately but feels like with Punk and Bryan they should be doing more ..they have the buzz and mains stream coverage
> 
> This time last year they were not even in the conversation with raw
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 109024


They have competition last year?


----------



## rbl85

3venflow said:


> Acknowledge ur TriBaL cHiEf!
> 
> View attachment 109025
> 
> 
> One thing I find funny is that every time AEW set a new milestone, the narrative changes. A year ago it was 'they will never hit a million regularly', then it becomes 'they must never fall below a million'. They MUST meet these peoples' self-created targets otherwise they are failing. The fact they are even competing with WWE for the key demographic and live event audiences after two years is astonishing. To downplay their success is silly. They're improving in every metric pretty much and are a certified success.
> 
> The rational view: They did their second best ratings since the debut show and continue to have strong forward momentum. Just because *you* say they 'must' draw 1.5m doesn't make it disappointing when they don't. This is, after all, cable in 2021, which fewer people than ever watch, and they are roasting the competition on there. And did the best non-WWE attendance in North America since 1999 with a gate higher than most of WCW's.


The only people i have ignored are obviously trolls since i never saw them comment once on this topic before tonight


----------



## Derek30

And, here we go again. WWE vs AEW. Should be a fun 10 pages or so.


----------



## La Parka

Having Baker and Ruby main event was the mistake here. The match had little hype and the two didn’t come close to delivering a good or even watchable match let alone following a very good Bryan and Omega match.

Decent number that will be tough to keep up without the easy rating pops of signing big names. Once Basketball season and hockey season comes around, AEW will have to do something to keep the people coming back.


----------



## reamstyles

The ratings spike this early isnt long term goal..eventually the good rating takes time..


----------



## RainmakerV2

3venflow said:


> Acknowledge ur TriBaL cHiEf!
> 
> View attachment 109025
> 
> 
> One thing I find funny is that every time AEW set a new milestone, the narrative changes. They MUST meet these peoples' self-created targets otherwise they are failing. The fact they are even competing with WWE for the key demographic and live event audiences after two years is astonishing. To downplay their success is silly. They're improving in every metric pretty much and are a certified success.
> 
> The rational view: They did their second best ratings since the debut show and continue to have strong forward momentum. Just because *you* say they 'must' draw 1.5m doesn't make it disappointing when they don't. This is, after all, cable in 2021, which fewer people than ever watch, and they are roasting the competition on there. And did the best non-WWE attendance in North America since 1999 with a gate higher than most of WCW's.



No one's changing anything. Their talent and media pushers are claiming they're gonna beat or "massacre" RAW. I didn't say that. Don't talk shit then expect it not to get flung back at ya when it doesn't happen.


----------



## TheGreatBanana

Pentagon Senior said:


> Didn't SmackDown do like 4 million on their debut though? And only half of that now? I don't really think that's the best way to judge, they'll always settle somewhere beneath that debut number.
> 
> AEW's numbers are perfectly healthy for a promotion in their position IMO (as are SmackDown's by the way).


This isn’t about Smackdown, it’s about Dynamite. WWE is a mature company, whilst AEW is a startup that needs all the momentum it can get. It started strong, but viewership then declined. Now they have the likes of Bryan, Punk. Big stars and they’re still unable to top the number from their debut even with supercards. AEW should be striving to be greater than their debut show. All they are doing is catering to the indy marks that loved the NXT takeovers years ago. That fan base has transferred over to AEW.


----------



## Fearless Viper

The Tribal Chief went to Raw and dominated. Lmao this was their biggest show in their history and The Tribal Chief went against the NFL. AEW still got smashed.

#Acknowledged


----------



## fabi1982

ProjectGargano said:


> It was still their third best show ever in terms of viewership.


And? It should have been their highest without an issue. Honestly you have BD/Omega and with the right light this alone should do the trick. I dont care about „but we are doing over a million and everyone should be happy“ narrative. This was the chance and even if they started with a 1.5 they lost a shit ton of viewers in the other 1.5h…which is even worse if people tuned out because they were not interested.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

LifeInCattleClass said:


> mmm - i thought 1.35
> 
> still not bad


That's what I was thinking as well.


----------



## rbl85

Fearless Viper said:


> The Tribal Chief went to Raw and dominated. Lmao this was their biggest show in their history and The Tribal Chief went against the NFL. AEW still got smashed.
> 
> #Acknowledged


Last time i watch this tribal chef he forgot his lines


----------



## Sad Panda

Fearless Viper said:


> The Tribal Chief went to Raw and dominated. Lmao this was their biggest show in their history and The Tribal Chief went against the NFL. AEW still got smashed.
> 
> #Acknowledged


Your like a proud papa lol are you on Vinces payroll or something?

Both companies are doing well, that’s great for wrestling as a whole.


----------



## Geeee

It's wild to me that AEW is at a point where an increase in total viewers and demo over last week is considered disappointing because they didn't beat Raw...


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Botchy SinCara said:


> .yeah they are definitely up from this time last year and been on a streak lately but feels like with Punk and Bryan they should be doing more ..they have the buzz and mains stream coverage
> 
> This time last year they were not even in the conversation with raw
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 109024


Yeah I'd have liked to see 1.3 total and 0.5, maybe even 1.4. But I'm not guna get disheartened by stats when they keep going from strength to strength in most aspects (including ticket sales). Without a recognised brand behind them it's hard to know what they 'should' get


----------



## Botchy SinCara

RainmakerV2 said:


> No one's changing anything. Their talent and media pushers are claiming they're gonna beat or "massacre" RAW. I didn't say that. Don't talk shit then expect it not to get flung back at ya when it doesn't happen.



Dude Bryan said it COULD be and on paper he wasn't wrong ..mnf digs into raw hard he never stated it was guaranteed or taking trash about wwe 
Facts are wwe numbers over the years have slipped and so far this year aew has been on the rise and according to wwe fans the shows have been better so having aew should be seen as a good thing then


----------



## Sad Panda

Geeee said:


> It's wild to me that AEW is at a point where an increase in total viewers and demo over last week is considered disappointing because they didn't beat Raw...


A very true statement. A two year old wrestling company with that expectation? The growth is insane.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Sad Panda said:


> Your like a proud papa lol are you on Vinces payroll or something?
> 
> Both companies are doing well, that’s great for wrestling as a whole.


Nope, I'm just Acknowledging The Tribal Chief. And you're right that it's good for wrestling as a whole.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The quarterly will tell us a lot of who draws what 

the opening match was long as was the main event - should be interesting to see


----------



## Alright_Mate

For the hype and standard of the show, this is a poor loss.

WWE’s desperation tactics paid off this week.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Botchy SinCara said:


> Dude Bryan said it COULD be and on paper he wasn't wrong ..mnf digs into raw hard he never stated it was guaranteed or taking trash about wwe
> Facts are wwe numbers over the years have slipped and so far this year aew has been on the rise and according to wwe fans the shows have been better so having aew should be seen as a good thing then



Yes of course, Meltzer and Alvarez always give themselves an out. "Could happen", "plans change". "Uh ya know I wasn't really expecting them to do a 1.4 or anything guys, don't be silly. Ya know Uh, survivor was on and yeah thats tough, remember Uh, we said COULD, I didn't guarantee anything. "


----------



## reamstyles

TheGreatBanana said:


> This isn’t about Smackdown, it’s about Dynamite. WWE is a mature company, whilst AEW is a startup that needs all the momentum it can get. It started strong, but viewership then declined. Now they have the likes of Bryan, Punk. Big stars and they’re still unable to top the number from their debut even with supercards. AEW should be striving to be greater than their debut show. All they are doing is catering to the indy marks that loved the NXT takeovers years ago. That fan base has transferred over to AEW.


To be fair they successfully done it, what they want is the 90s wrestling fans to go back and yea their son and daughters to het intereat in wrestling again


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> Acknowledge ur TriBaL cHiEf!
> 
> View attachment 109025
> 
> 
> One thing I find funny is that every time AEW set a new milestone, the narrative changes. A year ago it was 'they will never hit a million regularly', then it becomes 'they must never fall below a million'. They MUST meet these peoples' self-created targets otherwise they are failing. The fact they are even competing with WWE for the key demographic and live event audiences after two years is astonishing. To downplay their success is silly. They're improving in every metric pretty much and are a certified success.
> 
> The rational view: They did their second best ratings since the debut show and continue to have strong forward momentum. Just because *you* say they 'must' draw 1.5m doesn't make it disappointing when they don't. This is, after all, cable in 2021, which fewer people than ever watch, and they are roasting the competition on there. And did the best non-WWE attendance in North America since 1999 with a gate higher than most of WCW's.


It's not that crazy when you take in part the crazy advantages they started with. Billionaire owner, prime time TV on a widely available TV station, and a lot of the biggest names outside of WWE including some from WWE. Yeah folk are being ridiculous when they pretend being top 5 on cable most weeks is bad. But it's also silly to act like they shouldn't be competing with a WWE brand given all the star power they have.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

TheGreatBanana said:


> AEW has still yet to come close to their debut numbers. It’s a problem because for the recent hype they’ve gotten recently, the viewership isn’t reaching the level they got on their debut show.
> 
> They aren’t going to grow on Wednesdays. You’ve debut Punk, Bryan, given Bryan vs Omega. What else can they do that is as big as these. They need to switch nights and counter program against Raw or Smackdown. Monday would be ideal as they have a decent shot of taking away viewers from Raw. Dynamite going against Raw would bring a new level of excitement among the fans. The ones who support AEW will tune in to help Dynamite beat Raw in the ratings.


They're off by a little over 100 000 from their debut. Smackdown is off by about 2 mil.


----------



## Sad Panda

Fearless Viper said:


> Nope, I'm just Acknowledging The Tribal Chief. And you're right that it's good for wrestling as a whole.


He’s a massive draw, no doubt about it.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Sad Panda said:


> He’s a massive draw, no doubt about it.


So massive his main event lost 200 k but ok


----------



## .christopher.

What a surprise. A shitty build for a match against Omega that wasn't even for the title didn't draw. That mess was still going to be the main draw, though, but they went and put it as the opener to boot... This fucking company.


----------



## rbl85

Then that means that people didn't stay for Britt Baker ?


----------



## RainmakerV2

RapShepard said:


> It's not that crazy when you take in part the crazy advantages they started with. Billionaire owner, prime time TV on a widely available TV station, and a lot of the biggest names outside of WWE including some from WWE. Yeah folk are being ridiculous when they pretend being top 5 on cable most weeks is bad. But it's also silly to act like they shouldn't be competing with a WWE brand given all the star power they have.


Who says it's bad? AEW is fine. But when every wrestling journalist and dirt sheet is UNAPOLOGETICALLY biased towards them and doesn't even try to hide it, you can expect the backlash when they fall short to be a little edgier. That's all.


----------



## kazarn

Really want to know how many people watched the opener, they might have lost a significant bunch after Omega/Bryan.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

TheGreatBanana said:


> This isn’t about Smackdown, it’s about Dynamite. WWE is a mature company, whilst AEW is a startup that needs all the momentum it can get. It started strong, but viewership then declined. Now they have the likes of Bryan, Punk. Big stars and they’re still unable to top the number from their debut even with supercards. AEW should be striving to be greater than their debut show. All they are doing is catering to the indy marks that loved the NXT takeovers years ago. That fan base has transferred over to AEW.


True, and I don't wana make this about AEW v WWE. But it's the same argument for both. Debut numbers are not the best yardstick for various reasons. 

Like I said, my personal opinion is that the numbers for Dynamite have been good recently, even if I would've liked to see slightly higher last night. People will make a drama out of it by plucking numbers out of the air but I don't see it. They've been growing gradually for 6 months or so across all metrics and need to work hard to keep that trajectory going.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> The quarterly will tell us a lot of who draws what
> 
> the opening match was long as was the main event - should be interesting to see


I'm ready to see what Britt did because if she raised the obvious drop there was after the opener DMD is giving it to folk lol


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> I'm ready to see what Britt did because if she raised the obvious drop there was after the opener DMD is giving it to folk lol


Of course the main event is going to gain viewers, it's for a title.


----------



## 3venflow

Geeee said:


> It's wild to me that AEW is at a point where an increase in total viewers and demo over last week is considered disappointing because they didn't beat Raw...


Victims of their own success. If they ever do hit 1.5m regularly, it'll then turn into 'if this next big show doesn't do 2.0m, it'll be disappointing'.

Actually, if people really want to judge the success of the product in the TV networks' eyes, they should be looking at the 18-49. The networks won't give a shit about a rise of drop of 100,000 total viewers. For them, the difference between 950,000 and 1,050,000 probably doesn't even register.

Their performances in the P18-49 are insanely good. Last year, they ranged from 0.25 to 0.37 most of the time and that was considered successful. Now they're regularly doing 0.40 to 0.50. If they renewed their TV deal right now, I could imagine them going from $43.75m p/y to at least $100m p/y.


----------



## Randy Lahey

PavelGaborik said:


> 1.3 million is my prediction.
> 
> Demo .48


Dang you nailed it!

I think the demo is a little low given the venue and quality of the show. But The Challenge and Real Housewives eats into their female demos


----------



## RapShepard

RainmakerV2 said:


> Who says it's bad? AEW is fine. But when every wrestling journalist and dirt sheet is UNAPOLOGETICALLY biased towards them and doesn't even try to hide it, you can expect the backlash when they fall short to be a little edgier. That's all.


Oh for sure the wrestling media is heavily biased I don't disagree. But AEW is doing very well for themselves. Though yeah some of the media and fans on the extreme end can be annoying. For me I think the craziest thing I've been seeing coming out of yesterday is several media folk calling Britt vs Ruby a worthy and great main event.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Fearless Viper said:


> So they can't outdraw The Tribal Chief who fought against massive football night?


AKNOWLEDGE HIM!

Clearly the no1 full time needle mover in wrestling followed by Daniel Bryan & Becky in the 2 & 3 spots.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> I'm ready to see what Britt did because if she raised the obvious drop there was after the opener DMD is giving it to folk lol


lol - that is what i am wondering too

my prediction

heavy opener for Omega / Bryan
heavy fall for mjf v pillman (punk will somehow also be blamed here)

slow climb cody / black (cody will be murdered here by the normals)
slow climb sting / darby v ftr (too small, too old comments)

and an ok climb for the doc / ruby - but not close to the opener. Good enough to still warrant the main event though and legit will be all over it


----------



## DaSlacker

The thing is, Kenny Omega was never known to mainstream audiences until AEW premiered. So to a certain audience it is a dream match. To others he's not that big of a deal. 

As for the ratings 

1.3 is AEW Dynamite's ceiling. 
2.1 million WWE Raw's ceiling. 
0.8 million is NXT 2.0's ceiling. 

WWE SmackDown would be slap bang in the middle of Dynamite and SmackDown, had it remained on cable (1.7 million) . That's not too bad.... Disappointing considering Khan has put so much time, money and effort into this thing. Really does illustrate the power of the WWE brand and the unbroken, long running nature of Monday Night Wrestling.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> Of course the main event is going to gain viewers, it's for a title.


It might not giving Ruby isn't exactly a draw, but who knows


----------



## Botchy SinCara

I'm sure tnt execs are having a party seeing how the show seems to be number one a good chunk of the time and if the stay at or increase their demo they will get a bigger tv deal and more money which seems to the goal now 


I'm bummed it didn't get a bigger number but it's still a good night for them in terms if their age


----------



## TheGreatBanana

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> They're off by a little over 100 000 from their debut. Smackdown is off by about 2 mil.


No one is fucking talking about Smackdown! Smackdown has been going on for 20 years+ and had many years where millions tuned in.

What is being talked about is Dynamite and how they are using up all their best aces only to fall short of their debut numbers. When you’re promoting wrestling you save your best angles to generate the most money. That’s why WWE saves their biggest programs for WrestleMania. AEW gave away a dream match for free on TV. They could’ve made more money from a PPV.

The booking in AEW is a problem. Dynamite could’ve gotten higher viewership had they saved the Omega and Bryan match for the last match.


----------



## rbl85

I'm a big AEW fan and i'm not someone hard to please but this rating is a bit of a let-down


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol - that is what i am wondering too
> 
> my prediction
> 
> heavy opener for Omega / Bryan
> heavy fall for mjf v pillman (punk will somehow also be blamed here)
> 
> slow climb cody / black (cody will be murdered here by the normals)
> slow climb sting / darby v ftr (too small, too old comments)
> 
> and an ok climb for the doc / ruby - but not close to the opener. Good enough to still warrant the main event though and legit will be all over it


Yup and if Cody's match drops oh man lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Yup and if Cody's match drops oh man lol


lolllll - now that’ll be an actual massacre

poor Cody

poor us


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

.christopher. said:


> What a surprise. A shitty build for a match against Omega that wasn't even for the title didn't draw. That mess was still going to be the main draw, though, but they went and put it as the opener to boot... This fucking company.


*@The Definition of Technician just proved DMD is their most consistent draw. She earned that main event.*


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> Yup and if Cody's match drops oh man lol


If Cody's match goes up then it's thanks to Black


----------



## validreasoning

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> They're off by a little over 100 000 from their debut. Smackdown is off by about 2 mil.


I am sure if The Rock is advertised and Brock Lesnar vs Reigns for WWE title while Conor McGregor and Jon Jones show up and we have Rollins vs Orton loser leaves WWE ladder match all promoted for six months SD would do similar number to debut on Fox...


----------



## rbl85

The Legit DMD said:


> *@The Definition of Technician just proved DMD is their most consistent draw. She earned that main event.*


She was in the main event not because she earned it but because it was the only title match of the card


----------



## Botchy SinCara

TheGreatBanana said:


> No one is fucking talking about Smackdown! Smackdown has been going on for 20 years+ and had many years where millions tuned in.
> 
> What is being talked about is Dynamite and how they are using up all their best aces only to fall short of their debut numbers. When you’re promoting wrestling you save your best angles to generate the most money. That’s why WWE saves their biggest programs for WrestleMania. AEW gave away a dream match for free on TV. They could’ve made more money from a PPV.
> 
> The booking in AEW is a problem. Dynamite could’ve gotten higher viewership had they saved the Omega and Bryan match for the last match.



It really doesn't matter where you put Bryan and Omega the ratings are the same if people only want to watch for that match they will watch that match and it seems like a safe bet the onpening of a show has the most eyes so you give them somthing that shows the best of what you have 


I see contradictions all over the place when it terms to aew shows ..people say use what you have ..well that are using what they have


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> If Cody's match goes up then it's thanks to Black


[emoji23][emoji23] true


----------



## Botchy SinCara

And to the people on here talking about not hiting their debut number 

Smack down started at 3.9 on fox and they are just above 2 million now so debut numbers are not a measuring stick


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> If Cody's match goes up then it's thanks to Black


_black was a scrub nothing when he joined aew / buried 10ft under by wwe booking_
_
he should thank his pagan gods the superstar making once in a generation talent Cody Rhodes deigned to lift him up to his level

black only benefitted from this program, and cody keeps pushing him - making him finally mean something
_
_time to acknowledge your MVP EVP_


----------



## RapShepard

Botchy SinCara said:


> It really doesn't matter where you put Bryan and Omega the ratings are the same if people only want to watch for that match they will watch that match and it seems like a safe bet the onpening of a show has the most eyes so you give them somthing that shows the best of what you have
> 
> 
> I see contradictions all over the place when it terms to aew shows ..people say use what you have ..well that are using what they have


It does matter where you put it. It's like fucking at the end of the date. You'll go on the date and go through the motions because you're fucking at the end. But if you show up to her house and she fucks you immediately, well the need to go on the date drastically goes down.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Very good rating. Consistency is key. The rating is climbing in a period where less people are watching cable everyday.


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> It does matter where you put it. It's like fucking at the end of the date. You'll go on the date and go through the motions because you're fucking at the end. But if you show up to her house and she fucks you immediately, well the need to go on the date drastically goes down.


The thing is if i'm only interested in that match and i know it's the main event, then i will not watch the first hour and half of the show.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> It does matter where you put it. It's like fucking at the end of the date. You'll go on the date and go through the motions because you're fucking at the end. But if you show up to her house and she fucks you immediately, well the need to go on the date drastically goes down.


lol, classy


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> The thing is if i'm only interested in that match and i know it's the main event, then i will not watch the first hour and half of the show.


You talking the boxing fan approach, I don't know if that holds the same in wrestling traditionally


----------



## 3venflow

Botchy SinCara said:


> Smack down started at 3.9 on fox and they are just above 2 million now so debut numbers are not a measuring stick


Pilots nearly always do the best ratings, at least unless the show becomes some kind of phenomenon.

It feels like the yearly decline of people watching TV and live cable is largely ignored too. Like I saw a post that said AEW hasn't hit the height of TNA when it hit 2.0 or so. Well no shit, that was in 2009 when live TV was waaaay more popular than it is now. RAW would do 3.6 or 3.7 back then too while today the flagship show Smackdown on network TV does 2.2.


----------



## Joe Gill

does anyone know what the 18-49 demo was for the first episode? personally I could care less how many boomers are watching pro wrestling...in fact a lower number might be a good thing...high boomer rating could be a sign of a lame watered down product... sometimes seniors prefer watching things that arent very loud and tame... like RAW.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Botchy SinCara said:


> And to the people on here talking about not hiting their debut number
> 
> Smack down started at 3.9 on fox and they are just above 2 million now so debut numbers are not a measuring stick


Exactly. It either is a good yardstick (in both cases) or it isn't. Personally I don't think is


----------



## DaSlacker

validreasoning said:


> I am sure if The Rock is advertised and Brock Lesnar vs Reigns for WWE title while Conor McGregor and Jon Jones show up and we have Rollins vs Orton loser leaves WWE ladder match all promoted for six months SD would do similar number to debut on Fox...


With a true mega show they could hit somewhere in the 2.9 - 3.1 million viewer range. In other words a 1/3 increase on the regular audience. Though I have my doubts unless it is a 25th anniversary type thing. 

The premiere episode was a true outlier that will never be repeated. The Christmas Day one was too, but that can be done again.


----------



## Dr. Middy

RapShepard said:


> It does matter where you put it. It's like fucking at the end of the date. You'll go on the date and go through the motions because you're fucking at the end. But if you show up to her house and she fucks you immediately, well the need to go on the date drastically goes down.


I only liked this because the analogy is hilarious in the best way.

But I think they didn't want to end a huge show on a draw, which I think is understandable, and would kinda feel even more flat as an ending.


----------



## yeahright2

We have ratings for Dynamite yesterday.

(obligatory shameless plug for the ratings game)
AEW Ratings prediction game
@omaroo took it this week, congratulations to him 

Not a bad number, but still.. 1.2 Million with all that hype? Biggest show ever, Bryans first match, Cody returning? Sorry, but that show was not a "game changer"


----------



## RapShepard

Dr. Middy said:


> I only liked this because the analogy is hilarious in the best way.
> 
> But I think they didn't want to end a huge show on a draw, which I think is understandable, and would kinda feel even more flat as an ending.


I think it could've worked as an ender with the 2 factions battling out to close. But I see your point as well


----------



## Randy Lahey

[/QUOTE]


DaSlacker said:


> 1.3 is AEW Dynamite's ceiling.
> 2.1 million WWE Raw's ceiling.
> 0.8 million is NXT 2.0's ceiling.
> 
> WWE SmackDown would be slap bang Really does illustrate the power of the WWE brand and the unbroken, long running nature of Monday Night Wrestling.


The 18-49 is far more important and TK made up that gap in less than 2 years.

Sure, most 50+ year olds that have watched Raw for 30 years are not going to watch Dynamite. But for AEW and advertisers, it doesn’t matter.

Raw is still in a long term downtrend, and AEW is just getting started. All AEW has to do maintain a base given that WWE sheds 10-20% of their viewers yearly

AEW doesn’t have to get up to 1.8. Rsw will eventually fall to 1.3.


----------



## Prosper

Very good rating but was hoping for a little higher given the Bryan/Omega dream match. I don't know what else they can really do honestly, just keeping putting on fire shows. They don't need to change anything that they're doing. We as fans hype ourselves up (me included) to expect outlandish numbers based on the card they put on, but the reality is anything over a million is incredible. To be getting these kinds of numbers and demos as a two 2 year old brand without the name value of WWE is nothing to be disappointed about honestly. I mean they lost the demo to RAW by 0.1 - 0.2 percent. They have plenty of time to continue trending upwards. Its not like they're going backwards considering the demos they have been achieving. Its hilarious that now that a million seems to be the baseline, some are calling this "bad" with or without all the hype that went into it and despite what journalists say will happen. Form your own opinion.


----------



## 3venflow

Joe Gill said:


> does anyone know what the 18-49 demo was for the first episode?


0.68, which is still untouched and probably is going to be forever. Even Smackdown at MSG didn't hit that.

They did their second best demo on September 8 this year with 0.53.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

They definitely needed to put Bryan / Omega on last - that much i 100% agree with

would’ve been much better, even with draw


----------



## Dr. Middy

RapShepard said:


> I think it could've worked as an ender with the 2 factions battling out to close. But I see your point as well


That would have worked too I think. 

Only reason I think there is as much flack as there has been is because to many Britt/Ruby sort of underdelivered as a match. Britt's already been shown to be one of the biggest stars, and Ruby had a ton of momentum behind her, plus being for the title itself. So it had plenty going for it to main event, and I think if the match was better it wouldn't be much of an issue to do what they did here. 

Or they could have put say Punk/Hobbs as the main event, but I think that is strategically being saved for Rampage so you have one each of Bryan and Punk on each show.


----------



## elo

The real challenge is keeping the show above 1 million when it moves to Saturday in 2 weeks - that will show us if these new viewers are hooked or just casuals.


----------



## DaSlacker

3venflow said:


> Pilots nearly always do the best ratings, at least unless the show becomes some kind of phenomenon.
> 
> It feels like the yearly decline of people watching TV and live cable is largely ignored too. Like I saw a post that said AEW hasn't hit the height of TNA when it hit 2.0 or so. Well no shit, that was in 2009 when live TV was waaaay more popular than it is now. RAW would do 3.6 or 3.7 back then too while today the flagship show Smackdown on network TV does 2.2.


Raw could hit six million in 2009 if it felt like it. And that year was a new low for that show - it was absolutely garbage after WrestleMania 25. I'd recommend AEW starts with a weekly celebrity guest hosts but best not... 😁 

I genuinely can't tell if AEW is underperforming or overperforming. Same with WWE. That's how messed up things are thesedays.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DaSlacker said:


> Raw could hit six million in 2009 if it felt like it. And that year was a new low for that show - it was absolutely garbage after WrestleMania 25. I'd recommend AEW starts with a weekly celebrity guest hosts but best not... 😁
> 
> I genuinely can't tell if AEW is underperforming or overperforming. Same with WWE. That's how messed up things are thesedays.


well, you can only judge how its performing when compared against everything on tv on the same night

and they’re first - so, they’re doing good


----------



## THANOS

rbl85 said:


> She was in the main event not because she earned it but because it was the only title match of the card


Being completely honest, Britt has been a consistent draw almost every week without fail.

If not Bryan/Kenny, Britt was the best choice to main event out of the remaining matches on the show.


----------



## .christopher.

The Legit DMD said:


> *@The Definition of Technician just proved DMD is their most consistent draw. She earned that main event.*


Amongst the general audience AEW already have. If you want to improve your audience, that main event wasn't it. Only Bryan and Punk had that potential and their poor introductions to the company has already killed both of their buzz.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

A solid number, but not as great as it arguably should've been. I guess it's fine though - if Bryan/Omega was a main event title match then this would be quite a bit more disappointing. It was still their 3rd strongest episode so it's fine. 

Bryan/Omega took up two full quarter hours, so will be telling how well that performed over those two, and into the third which also had Punk (who also partially extended into the 4th). 

Hour 1 should be well above hour 2... although hour 2 did have Sting, Darby, Baker... so honestly it's anyone's guess how this all performed. Could've been the show was pretty consistent throughout with the peaks being the beginning and end of the show and only a small difference between highest and lowest quarters. Maybe Bryan/Omega did a huge number like 1.4, and then numbers dropped after that. Maybe Baker further shows she's a draw and hits the main event number out of the park. Which would also I think partially say how well the segment they had on Rampage was received (since that's where most of the heat for the program stemmed from). 

Anyway, maybe the hype for this show will translate to viewers next week. Rampage will also be good to see. If Dynamite is anything to go by, we should see above their average so I'd expect Rampage to be around 800k. It's really just the fact it's 2 hours I'm not sure how to consider. How much of a detriment is that when the show is on so late (and the 2nd hour is on the back end)? That's what I'm really interested in seeing.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Definitely don't wanna hear anyone say aew fans are the worst fanbase ..we fans right now on Twitter are pure cancer


----------



## Joe Gill

3venflow said:


> 0.68, which is still untouched and probably is going to be forever. Even Smackdown at MSG didn't hit that.
> 
> They did their second best demo on September 8 this year with 0.53.


0.68? wow didnt think it was that high. So they are nowhere near that. Also noticed most of their youtube videos with highest views are older videos from the first year of dynamite. AEW is hard to gauge sometimes. On one hand the crowds are getting bigger and louder..more enthusiasm.... yet their youtube views and tv ratings are a mixed bag considering they no longer compete with NXT. It seems like AEW has a difficult time holding onto casual fans but they are able to slowly build on a hardcore following of a loyal fan base that is incrementally increasing as some older attitde era fans begin tuning in.


----------



## omaroo

I'm sure some are disappointed with the number and were expecting 1.4-1.5 million considering being the biggest dynamite ever. 

But I still thought if they got close to 1.3 million would be a good rating and still believe it is. 

Don't think they will ever get 1.5 million+. That's not a negative imo. Crazy to see the success of AEW and where they are now.


----------



## rbl85

THANOS said:


> Being completely honest, Britt has been a consistent draw almost every week without fail.
> 
> If not Bryan/Kenny, Britt was the best choice to main event out of the remaining matches on the show.


I'm not saying that she didn't deserve it but the reason she was in the main event was only because it was the only title match.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Prosper said:


> Very good rating but was hoping for a little higher given the Bryan/Omega dream match. I don't know what else they can really do honestly, just keeping putting on fire shows. They don't need to change anything that they're doing. We as fans hype ourselves up (me included) to expect outlandish numbers based on the card they put on, but the reality is anything over a million is incredible. To be getting these kinds of numbers and demos as a two 2 year old brand without the name value of WWE is nothing to be disappointed about honestly. I mean they lost the demo to RAW by 0.1 - 0.2 percent. They have plenty of time to continue trending upwards. Its not like they're going backwards considering the demos they have been achieving. Its hilarious that now that a million seems to be the baseline, some are calling this "bad" with or without all the hype that went into it and despite what journalists say will happen. Form your own opinion.


fans will come with time. word of mouth is not an overnight thing.


omaroo said:


> I'm sure some are disappointed with the number and were expecting 1.4-1.5 million considering being the biggest dynamite ever.
> 
> But I still thought if they got close to 1.3 million would be a good rating and still believe it is.
> 
> Don't think they will ever get 1.5 million+. That's not a negative imo. Crazy to see the success of AEW and where they are now.


never say never. The fact is they are trending upwards in a period where cable subscription numbers is trending downwards.

It is only 2 years in.


----------



## THANOS

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1441137739550715906


----------



## THANOS

rbl85 said:


> I'm not saying that she didn't deserve it but the reason she was in the main event was only because it was the only title match.


If Britt wasn't a draw, I think they wouldn't have cared that it was a title match, and would have put Sting & Darby in the main event because Darby has been a proven draw.


----------



## drougfree

that was some WCW shit . already wasted Bryan vs Omega for a small tv boost


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

For the biggest episode in history that viewership is disappointing. I had them at around 1.3 but they didn't hit that. I think a lot of people were wayyyyyy to optimistic though, you had people saying 1.5 I even saw a couple of 1.6s and a 1.8. like come on they were never going to hit that. 

Oh well, onwards and upwards.


----------



## holy

For those comparing the Smackdown premiere with the Dynamite premiere, both of which happened in Oct 2019, you are forgetting that the Smackdown premiere did 3.9 million viewers because The Rock, one of the biggest stars of all time, was on the show. Naturally, the show isn't going to get the same viewership again without The Rock.

Dynamite debut, on the other hand...who were the biggest stars on that show? Jericho? Mox? There was no current hot pro wrestling sensation on that show like a Daniel Bryan or CM Punk, who are absolutely bigger crowd-pullers in today's time than Jericho and Mox.

Given that Punk and Bryan are on the show, they should absolutely be getting better viewership than they did for their debut show when they drew 1.4 million viewers. They should be getting 1.5 million viewers now atleast.

Again, I think the problem is that AEW focuses too much on just wrestling matches, and not enough on creating hot angles and storylines.

Comparing Punk and Bryan in AEW to NWO/Bash at the Beach '96....NWO weren't feuding with jobbers after their debut, unlike Punk who is currently feuding with unknown people.

With Punk, they needed to STRIKE the iron while it's HOT! Atleast throw him in there with fucking Mox or someone.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

drougfree said:


> that was some WCW shit . already wasted Bryan vs Omega for a small tv boost


Wasted how?


----------



## RollinsHardyStyles

I'm not going to lie, I was hoping for a bigger number for Dynamite, but I find it worrying that people are celebrating this like a huge win for WWE. WWE should not be happy about RAW marginally beating Dynamite in the key demo. An upstart company getting close to and marginally beating the top company is good news, but the top company being happy about marginally beating the upstart company is not good news.

Just for reference, RAW was averaging around 2.5m viewers when Dynamite debuted at 1.4m and settled under 1m. Now Dynamite is starting to get 1m+ regularly and RAW has fallen to around 1.7m.

I want both of these companies to do well creatively and performance-wise, so we shouldn't delude ourselves and lose view of the bigger picture to just try to rib on the other company.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Damn. AEW must be panicking at that rating. Punk talking on Dynamite did better, didn't it?


----------



## bdon

fabi1982 said:


> And? It should have been their highest without an issue. Honestly you have BD/Omega and with the right light this alone should do the trick. I dont care about „but we are doing over a million and everyone should be happy“ narrative. This was the chance and even if they started with a 1.5 they lost a shit ton of viewers in the other 1.5h…which is even worse if people tuned out because they were not interested.


Exactly why you don’t put Bryan and Omega on first. That was dumb. Lol


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Just keep doing what they're doing. They got the pieces, they just need to find the right story to captivate more people to come in.


Stop making so much sense. This is the ratings thread where we grab our popcorn and watch the nuts eat each other alive from across the fence, bro! Haha


----------



## Serpico Jones

Bryan Alvarez and Dave Meltzer must be having a meltdown.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> Stop making so much sense. This is the ratings thread where we grab our popcorn and watch the nuts eat each other alive from across the fence, bro! Haha


Lol and the eating alive is fun. But realistically all 4 brands are doing well right now if folk are being fair


----------



## THANOS

RollinsHardyStyles said:


> I'm not going to lie, I was hoping for a bigger number for Dynamite, but I find it worrying that people are celebrating this like a huge win for WWE. WWE should not be happy about RAW marginally beating Dynamite in the key demo. An upstart company getting close to and marginally beating the top company is good news, but the top company being happy about marginally beating the upstart company is not good news.
> 
> Just for reference, RAW was averaging around 2.5m viewers when Dynamite debuted at 1.4m and settled under 1m. Now Dynamite is starting to get 1m+ regularly and RAW has fallen to around 1.7m.
> 
> I want both of these companies to do well creatively and performance-wise, so we shouldn't delude ourselves and lose view of the bigger picture to just try to rib on the other company.


This.

RAW beat them by 0.49 compared to 0.48 and had Roman (who's their biggest active draw) on the show and following a huge title change the previous week.

Celebrating this, when we should all be amazed at how quickly 2-3 year old company has rose to compete with RAW, is ridiculous.


----------



## Jay Trotter

I love AEW. They have made me fall in love with pro wrestling again. Tony and Company get far more right than wrong. But they simply lack a killer instinct. With all the momentum in the world, they don't book a huge show like this to it's fullest potential. Punk is their biggest star and draw. Look what he single handedly did for their B show at 10pm on 8/20. A death timeslot on a Friday. Look what he single handedly did for their A show on 8/25, with one of the weakest thinnest card in Dynamite history. No PPV fallout to boost the ratings like Bryan and Cole's Dynamite debuts. Look at the record shattering buyrates for All Out. They weren't paying the 50 bucks for Omega vs Christian. Look at the massive white sea of his T-Shirts in bulding after building. He is clearly their top merch seller. His youtube numbers. Through the roof.

Yet, Punk is spending this massive week for AEW wrestling a match on the B show against a D level name. Worst of all? It's taped. Spoilers have leaked. Crowd probably tired. It's inexcusable to not book your top guy to have a match on the biggest Dynamite of 2021. You are not putting his first TV match in 7 years on the A show at 8pm? They didn't maximize their full drawing power last night and therefore scored a fairly disappointing rating. Unless Brooks has some type of stake in Rampage, I am flabbergasted they keep sticking his biggest moments at 10pm on Friday's.


----------



## Dark Emperor

THANOS said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1441137739550715906


That tweet is a complete lie as AEW did over 1.2m the first week NXT moved. They had also done over 1.14 several times post PPV shows. So it was not their 2nd highest viewership at the time


----------



## yeahright2

THANOS said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1441137739550715906


yeah.. A 10 week average doesn´t really prove anything. I recently did an average calculation going back a whole year from Fyter fest. That average was 810K. And then I did an average from Fyter Fest back to April 14. That averaged 822K.
September 23 last year did 835K with a .32 in the "Key demo"., so they gained 400K. But of course it sounds more impressive when you say "Up 50%"
I´m not denying there´s a growth, but statistics is a wonderful thing


----------



## Dark Emperor

THANOS said:


> This.
> 
> RAW beat them by 0.49 compared to 0.48 and had Roman (who's their biggest active draw) on the show and following a huge title change the previous week.
> 
> Celebrating this, when we should all be amazed at how quickly 2-3 year old company has rose to compete with RAW, is ridiculous.


Why do you not talk about the big difference in viewership?

Break down the demo, and its clear its just a bunch of males watching AEW. The female demo numbers are terrible which means the kids wont be there either. This is not attractive to advertisers.


----------



## RLT1981

Wrestling is a nickle audence now this is about where AEW will stay they are not getting any bigger cause the wrestling audence is not there and its noway you gonna lure any attitude era fans back with a pure wrestling product that AEW puts on.


----------



## 3venflow

Dark Emperor said:


> Break down the demo, and its clear its just a bunch of males watching AEW. The female demo numbers are terrible which means the kids wont be there either. This is not attractive to advertisers.


RAW did 0.34 in the F18-49 on Monday. Not massively higher than AEW's 0.29 on Wednesday. Females has been one of AEW's weakest demos compared to WWE along with the 50+ but it was closer this week. WWE excels more in the 50+. Their 50+ average on Monday was 0.89 compared to AEW's 0.50. Boomers love the WWE.

Hard to analyze how many kids are watching as the youngest demo recorded is 12-34.


----------



## Mister Sinister

The audience isn't stupid. We all expected either shenanigans or an indecisive finish. They were jerking our junk the whole time and we all knew it. The audience will feel it when they are really putting the title on Danielson or Punk.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

LifeInCattleClass said:


> its so strange - looking at that list. What would people describe as ‘mainstream‘ on there
> 
> the sports stuff here and there, sure - but what else?
> 
> isn’t wrestling then by defacto mainstream?


can somebody from the US give us some insight here?

@RapShepard / @The Definition of Technician ?

American horror story is mainstream, no? And aew smashes that


----------



## The XL 2

It was a poor decision to open with Omega and Bryan. They should have closed with it and made it a big deal all throughout the show.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> can somebody from the US give us some insight here?
> 
> @RapShepard / @The Definition of Technician ?
> 
> American horror story is mainstream, no? And aew smashes that
> 
> View attachment 109033


I imagine you'd be hard pressed to find somebody who hasn't heard of it. Demo wise I think the audience is surprisingly female. Like I know about it because my mother, grandma, and aunt were SUPER into it when it first started.


----------



## Han Popo

LifeInCattleClass said:


> can somebody from the US give us some insight here?
> 
> @RapShepard / @The Definition of Technician ?
> 
> American horror story is mainstream, no? And aew smashes that
> 
> View attachment 109033


Why can’t an AEW supershow do the same number as RAW? Which is horrible but yet still does 1.8 million.
.


----------



## Danielallen1410

Have we actually reached a point where 1.28 million is seen as a bad number. Jeez a year ago it was getting half that at times.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Han Popo said:


> Why can’t an AEW supershow do the same number as RAW? Which is horrible but yet still does 1.8 million.
> .


lol, how should i know?

ask the fans who didn’t follow BD from wwe to aew


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> I imagine you'd be hard pressed to find somebody who hasn't heard of it. Demo wise I think the audience is surprisingly female. Like I know about it because my mother, grandma, and aunt were SUPER into it when it first started.


so if AHS is mainstream, and AEW does double the number in 18-49

does that make it mainstream?


----------



## THANOS

Han Popo said:


> Why can’t an AEW supershow do the same number as RAW? Which is horrible but yet still does 1.8 million.
> .


There's like 500k 50+ year olds that will watch WWE until they die. 

In the only metric that matters and the one that generates the TV revenue contracts, RAW beat AEW by 0.01, that's it. 0.49 to 0.48.


----------



## omaroo

Its sad seeing the haters loving that AEW didnt get a super high rating that they were expecting from the show.

AEW has come a long way in 2 years to say otherwise is just delusion.

Even if they stay in the 1.1-1.3 range for years that will still be a big success considering WWE aint doing hugely better themselves.


----------



## Erik.

Good rating.

They're on fire right now. To think they could still have Wyatt to debut and Hangman's return!


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> so if AHS is mainstream, and AEW does double the number in 18-49
> 
> does that make it mainstream?


Yes and no I guess lol. When I think of mainstream I think the more traditional Hollywood and sports world acknowledged things. For me I at least look at stuff like Wrestling, Boxing, MMA, and Hockey as popular things, but not really mainstream things. But that's just me.


----------



## Stevieg786

When is the breakdown out?


----------



## Dark Emperor

THANOS said:


> There's like 500k 50+ year olds that will watch WWE until they die.
> 
> In the only metric that matters and the one that generates the TV revenue contracts, RAW beat AEW by 0.01, that's it. 0.49 to 0.48.


Haha yeah because Meltzer told you that right?

Do you guys know how much money 50-60 year olds have lol. If you really think those young single males that make up the majority of AEW fans are more attractive once advertiser break down the numbers in detail, then you are deluded.


----------



## Dark Emperor

RapShepard said:


> Yes and no I guess lol. When I think of mainstream I think the more traditional Hollywood and sports world acknowledged things. For me I at least look at stuff like Wrestling, Boxing, MMA, and Hockey as popular things, but not really mainstream things. But that's just me.


AEW is nowhere near mainstream. WWE is not really mainstream either but everyone knows who they are. |Their social media number are insane

They enter mainstream during Wrestlemania & Summerslam weekends. WWE also reach mainstream as they get a lot of collaboration with stars like Trae Young, Logan Paul & Bad Bunny etc. 

But in terms of weekly content, wrestling is no longer mainstream. Neither is MMA and Boxing. They like WWE, become mainstream during big fights like Mcgregor, Canelo etc. But they aint red hot all year round. AEW does better PPV than majority of boxing cards these days.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

It's sad to see this thread become WWE vs AEW like it always does, can't we just support both without resorting to picking sides? I still don't get why Dynamite and RAW get compared so often when they aren't competing, they're on different nights for Christ sake.


----------



## RollinsHardyStyles

Lol, Melltzer didn't make up the key demo, it is literally an important metric in the TV business. Just for reference: Nielsen ratings - Wikipedia


----------



## Joe Gill

RollinsHardyStyles said:


> Lol, Melltzer didn't make up the key demo, it is literally an important metric in the TV business. Just for reference: Nielsen ratings - Wikipedia



"In general, the number of viewers within the 18–49 age range is more important than the total number of viewers.[16][17] According to _Advertising Age_, during the 2007–08 season, ABC was able to charge $419,000 per commercial sold during its medical drama _Grey's Anatomy_, compared to only $248,000 for a commercial during CBS' _CSI: Crime Scene Investigation_, despite _CSI_ having almost five million more viewers on average.[18] Because of its strength in young "demos" (demographic groups), NBC was able to charge almost three times as much for a commercial during _Friends_ as CBS charged for _Murder, She Wrote_, even though the two series had a similar amount of total viewership during the two seasons they were on the air concurrently.[16] _Glee_ (on Fox) and _The Office_ (on NBC) drew fewer total viewers than _NCIS_ (on CBS) during the 2009–10 season, but earned an average of $272,694 and $213,617 respectively, compared to $150,708 for _NCIS"_


If Dynamite is anywhere near RAW in the key demo when they negotiate their next deal they are looking at a massive pay raise...likely well over hundred mill a year for Dynamite alone. Pro wrestling might not be as popular as it was in the late 90s but its a huge cash cow right now for established brands.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Danielallen1410 said:


> Have we actually reached a point where 1.28 million is seen as a bad number. Jeez a year ago it was getting half that at times.


When its your biggest show ever, features a number of matches that wouldn't look out of place on a PPV, is heavily hyped AND features probably the second biggest match ever given away for free a 1.2 isn't great man

Regular episode it'd be good.




LifeInCattleClass said:


> so if AHS is mainstream, and AEW does double the number in 18-49
> 
> does that make it mainstream?


Wrestling itself is barely mainstream anymore, how would AEW even be considered?



Erik. said:


> Good rating.
> 
> They're on fire right now. To think they could still have Wyatt to debut and Hangman's return!


The rating will be the same regardless of how much money Tony spends on WWE guys. If Punk and Bryan can't be used to hook a new audience then Hangman and Bray definitely won't.


----------



## Stylebender

I just checked the google trends and this weeks dynamite was neck in neck with this weeks raw in the states. That is huge numbers compared to what they used to get. Which tells me the ratings will keep on growing. I predict dynamite hits 2 milion viewers within the next 6 months.


----------



## RapShepard

Dark Emperor said:


> AEW is nowhere near mainstream. WWE is not really mainstream either but everyone knows who they are. |Their social media number are insane
> 
> They enter mainstream during Wrestlemania & Summerslam weekends. WWE also reach mainstream as they get a lot of collaboration with stars like Trae Young, Logan Paul & Bad Bunny etc.
> 
> But in terms of weekly content, wrestling is no longer mainstream. Neither is MMA and Boxing. They like WWE, become mainstream during big fights like Mcgregor, Canelo etc. But they aint red hot all year round. AEW does better PPV than majority of boxing cards these days.


I don't disagree with you, but @LifeInCattleClass has a fair point. If something like AHS is considered mainstream shouldn't something like AEW which is de facto more viewed be considered mainstream is well. It's kind of like how this rapper NF's last album went platinum and The Migos last album as of now hasn't. But he's still not mainstream and they are, despite him clearly selling more.


----------



## Erik.

RapShepard said:


> I don't disagree with you, but @LifeInCattleClass has a fair point. If something like AHS is considered mainstream shouldn't something like AEW which is de facto more viewed be considered mainstream is well. It's kind of like how this rapper NF's last album went platinum and The Migos last album as of now hasn't. But he's still not mainstream and they are, despite him clearly selling more.


You're spot on.

People seem to think being main stream means being considered cool. Not at all.

Wrestling itself may not be considered cool to the majority but I would say wrestling is mainstream and has been for decades


----------



## Randy Lahey

THANOS said:


> There's like 500k 50+ year olds that will watch WWE until they die.
> 
> In the only metric that matters and the one that generates the TV revenue contracts, RAW beat AEW by 0.01, that's it. 0.49 to 0.48.


Yep, the entire difference in the total audience is in 50+

Raw does a 0.90 in 50+
Dynamite does a 0.50 in 50+

Raw's has nearly 2x the amount of old people watching it, than Dynamite. But does anyone care? No. If old people mattered at all in TV, MTV would be non-existent and every channel would be cable news


----------



## DammitChrist

holy said:


> There is too much wrestling on the show. They really need to start having more segments and promos. Not every fan wants to watch 30 minute wrestling matches.


No, because the wrestling matches generally do better in the ratings than promo-heavy segments do.

This company strongly features the wrestling (as they should), and their audience enjoys seeing that more.


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> No one's changing anything. Their talent and media pushers are claiming they're gonna beat or "massacre" RAW. I didn't say that. Don't talk shit then expect it not to get flung back at ya when it doesn't happen.


Someone is feeling troubled and offended that they destroyed Raw in the demographic numbers over the past couple of weeks. That could explain the weird (but laughable) defense for the Universal Champion earlier on.


----------



## Tell it like it is

Mf's must be thinking ratings equals better wrestler lol. Next stupid thing they're going to say is that Reigns is better than Kobashi and Misawa.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1441189656134041600

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## thorn123

this says more about society than any wrestling program


----------



## Dark Emperor

DammitChrist said:


> Someone is feeling troubled and offended that they destroyed Raw in the demographic numbers over the past couple of weeks. That could explain the weird (but laughable) defense for the Universal Champion earlier on.


Lol I swear the difference was like 0.01-0.02 both weeks whilst losing viewership by 500k+. Not exactly destroyed.

Anyway the whole rating debate is pointless as they are on different nights and AEW fans have now decided viewership is irrelevant.

Raw is definitely on the toughest weekday in terms of TV competition plus it’s 3hrs so the comparison will never be like for like.


----------



## sideon

Stylebender said:


> I just checked the google trends and this weeks dynamite was neck in neck with this weeks raw in the states. That is huge numbers compared to what they used to get. Which tells me the ratings will keep on growing. I predict dynamite hits 2 milion viewers within the next 6 months.


Except their ratings pop and then drop off again, y'all have now resulted to using google trends to determine ratings lol.


Danielallen1410 said:


> Have we actually reached a point where 1.28 million is seen as a bad number. Jeez a year ago it was getting half that at times.


It's a bad number when RAW is getting killed for getting 1.8, so how can 1.2 be seen as being better when they have zero competition? The company isn't new anymore and this isn't the 90s where you had to find a tv guide or word of mouth to find something. The reality is that this is the bar for AEW and instead of just accepting it people want to keep pushing the "WWE is dying" narrative.


----------



## Stylebender

sideon said:


> Except their ratings pop and then drop off again, y'all have now resulted to using google trends to determine ratings lol.


Actually they have done over a milion viewers in the past 5 weeks so they are the biggest they have ever been. Google trends is a metric for interest. Interest equals viewers. So yeah I do expect them to go up more as time moves on since the interest is going up. Its gonna take some time though.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> Someone is feeling troubled and offended that they destroyed Raw in the demographic numbers over the past couple of weeks. That could explain the weird (but laughable) defense for the Universal Champion earlier on.


Don't be one of those idiots that feeds into the Dynamite vs RAW bullshit


----------



## bdon

Dark Emperor said:


> Lol I swear the difference was like 0.01-0.02 both weeks whilst losing viewership by 500k+. Not exactly destroyed.
> 
> Anyway the whole rating debate is pointless as they are on different nights and AEW fans have now decided viewership is irrelevant.
> 
> Raw is definitely on the toughest weekday in terms of TV competition plus it’s 3hrs so the comparison will never be like for like.


WWE decided viewership was irrelevant YEARS ago when they touted being #1 on Monday nights despite not having as many viewers as MNF.


----------



## 3venflow

So basically, if they had replaced MJF/Pillman with Punk/Hobbs or Mox/Eddie vs. Suzuki-gun, they probably would've beaten Raw in the demo. Younger viewers started to tune out in the last two quarters though.


----------



## Randy Lahey

3venflow said:


> So basically, if they had replaced MJF/Pillman with Punk/Hobbs or Mox/Eddie vs. Suzuki-gun, they probably would've beaten Raw in the demo. Younger viewers started to tune out in the last two quarters though.
> 
> View attachment 109044


But that’s not always the case. The Gage-Jericho match did the highest demo and it was the last match of the night.

I think that number is def a disappointment for Britt/Ruby. TK has to realize women’s wrestling doesn’t draw as well as men unless it’s a hardcore match like Britt/Rosa, or it’s an interview segment with Britt. Standard women’s wrestling isn’t in demand


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> So basically, if they had replaced MJF/Pillman with Punk/Hobbs or Mox/Eddie vs. Suzuki-gun, they probably would've beaten Raw in the demo. Younger viewers started to tune out in the last two quarters though.
> 
> View attachment 109044


Brian Pillman not a draw confirmed


----------



## 3venflow

Dynamite vs. Raw in an attendance battle too:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1441227138045259781

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1441226636834361345


----------



## CovidFan

Serpico Jones said:


> Bryan Alvarez and Dave Meltzer must be having a meltdown.


You really think they're that emotionally invested in what these shows do? These two are laughing to the bank. You think they have more or less subs to their content currently or in September of 2019?


----------



## Botchy SinCara

3venflow said:


> So basically, if they had replaced MJF/Pillman with Punk/Hobbs or Mox/Eddie vs. Suzuki-gun, they probably would've beaten Raw in the demo. Younger viewers started to tune out in the last two quarters though.
> 
> View attachment 109044


So Bryan and Omega pulled in a better demo than ThU tRiBaL ChIEF 


you love to see it


----------



## Randy Lahey

Honestly TK sees that demo number Brit/Ruby did and I think he will put the ladies back on Rampage


----------



## Joe Gill

Botchy SinCara said:


> So Bryan and Omega pulled in a better demo than ThU tRiBaL ChIEF
> 
> 
> you love to see it


further proof of what an idiot TK is sometimes.... you mention at the start of the show the CM Punk live promo...and Omega/Bryan main event... but you dont tell anyone when the Punk segment is going to be.... you save it for near the end...so now people keep tuning in waiting for random Punk segment and main event.... instead TK blows his wad in the first 45 minutes. This is literally the opposite of how anyone programs a television show.


----------



## Joe Gill

Randy Lahey said:


> Honestly TK sees that demo number Brit/Ruby did and I think he will put the ladies back on Rampage


he deserves it... what a moron TK is thinking people will stick around for 2 hours to see freaking Ruby Soho in the main event. TK cant help himself sometimes... he is an indy mark at heart.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RollinsHardyStyles said:


> I'm not going to lie, I was hoping for a bigger number for Dynamite, but I find it worrying that people are celebrating this like a huge win for WWE. WWE should not be happy about RAW marginally beating Dynamite in the key demo. An upstart company getting close to and marginally beating the top company is good news, but the top company being happy about marginally beating the upstart company is not good news.
> 
> Just for reference, RAW was averaging around 2.5m viewers when Dynamite debuted at 1.4m and settled under 1m. Now Dynamite is starting to get 1m+ regularly and RAW has fallen to around 1.7m.
> 
> I want both of these companies to do well creatively and performance-wise, so we shouldn't delude ourselves and lose view of the bigger picture to just try to rib on the other company.


*@THANOS I'm not celebrating but it's not ludicrous if someone wants to. RAW was mediocre as usual aside from the Alexa and Charlotte segment, Nattie and Tamina dropping the tag titles, and the main event, so it's worth noting that Roman Reigns' presence and Big E simply being champion beat an AEW PPV card given away on free television. This show's match quality was better than All Out's on paper, so if they lose the demo and can't hit 1.3 at the same time, don't be surprised when people rub it in.*


----------



## elo

TNT will be thrilled with those numbers, Tony's probably a little bummed about them. Card order matters and Kenny v American Dragon should have started after 9pm and been built throughout the 1st hour, Tony is learning on the fly and this is another good lesson for him.


----------



## Not Lying

RapShepard said:


> Brian Pillman not a draw confirmed


There was gona be a drop following their 2 biggest stars (Punk and Bryan) anyways and it's the guy's first sniff at an important match, he has what it takes to draw, the responsibility here should have been on MJF to draw, but he needs time to be built up again too after 1 year of bullshit with Jericho.



The Legit DMD said:


> *@The Definition of Technician just proved DMD is their most consistent draw. She earned that main event.*


She has. Her and Darby are AEW's 2 biggest homegrown stars. Looking at the breakdown, the entire hour 2 held steady, i'm pretty sure that highly impressive and unprecedented.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> can somebody from the US give us some insight here?
> 
> @RapShepard / @The Definition of Technician ?
> 
> American horror story is mainstream, no? And aew smashes that
> 
> View attachment 109033


Yeah, but I'm pretty sure AHS is very well known, but to me it peaked around season 2-3, now we're at like season 10 or 11 i think. It's also interesting i never noticed they start at 10pm.

Btw, I am also on a forum for The Voice (ya'll can cry me a river, but The Voice Blinds >>> Monday Night RAW) and even the people there are just endlessly complaining about ratings. The Voice got like 7m viewers on Monday, which is great, but it's similar to last year or the one before, but everyone complains and thinks it's bad and they should go back to doing 10-14m viewers.
To put this in perspective, Monday was the premiere of The Voice, and it was the first episode with Ariana Grande (she's getting paid 25m dollars for the season), a major A+ Mainstream star with 230m followers on instagram (she's by FAR the most famous of the current coaches of Kelly/Blake/John Legend), a rabid fanbase, and yet still the cable TV viewership is "stagnant" and the fans of the show think it's bad and Ariana is no draw lmao.


----------



## THANOS

The Legit DMD said:


> *@THANOS I'm not celebrating but it's not ludicrous if someone wants to. RAW was mediocre as usual aside from the Alexa and Charlotte segment, Nattie and Tamina dropping the tag titles, and the main event, so it's worth noting that Roman Reigns' presence and Big E simply being champion beat an AEW PPV card given away on free television. This show's match quality was better than All Out's on paper, so if they lose the demo and can't hit 1.3 at the same time, don't be surprised when people rub it in.*


I agree with your points, but a larger thing to mention is that AEW is a 2 year company and through sheer will, deep pockets, faithful long term booking, and a edgy product, have managed to beat RAW, with all it's tenure, in the demo the past 2 weeks prior to this one.

2 years ago, we would all be laughing at this prospect as a pipe dream.

Yes, Grand Slam was a PPV card on free TV, but it's still a 2 year company. 

This same 2 year company just sold 20,000+ tickets in New York by themselves. It's not like when ROH/NJPW soldout MSG, because it was WrestleMania weekend and those fans were already there. This was all by themselves with no assist or alley-oop from big brother WWE.

Someone brought up Google Trends and said they were neck and neck between WWE and AEW this week, which is unheard of for a 2nd wrestling company.

People in here raising their pom-poms because a RAW featuring their largest draw and coming off a World Title change the previous week beat this 2 year company by 0.01 in the key demo are missing the point.

The fact that this discussion and this competition is even happening is the only thing worth celebrating.


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> There was gona be a drop following their 2 biggest stars (Punk and Bryan) anyways and it's the guy's first sniff at an important match, he has what it takes to draw, the responsibility here should have been on MJF to draw, but he needs time to be built up again too after 1 year of bullshit with Jericho.


Lol I was joking obviously you can't expect him to help retain in that spot


----------



## Not Lying

THANOS said:


> People in here raising their pom-poms because a RAW featuring their largest draw and coming off a World Title change the previous week beat this 2 year company by 0.01 in the key demo are missing the point.
> 
> *The fact that this discussion and this competition is even happening is the only thing worth celebrating.*


Testifyy!!!


----------



## Not Lying

It's honestly very funny how it's always the typical WWE stooges who feel the need and come in



validreasoning said:


> I am sure if The Rock is advertised and Brock Lesnar vs Reigns for WWE title while Conor McGregor and Jon Jones show up and we have Rollins vs Orton loser leaves WWE ladder match all promoted for six months SD would do similar number to debut on Fox...


Good luck. Connor might be your shot lol. but 2m away is 2m away, facts.



PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Don't be one of those idiots that feeds into the Dynamite vs RAW bullshit


It's ALWAYS the WWE stooges that start shit up. Why don't you say it to them?
You know who they are.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The quarter numbers show two things:

1) Bryan/Omega did very well and added a ton of viewers, on top of what already was a strong start. The matchup is a draw and is one they should revisit on PPV at some point for a more definitive conclusion.

2) They were able to hold up numbers pretty well. Quarters 2-4 were outliers, but the rest of the show they managed to keep a core 1.25 million watching. It shows the audience is there and with the right show, people will watch. They need to figure out how to keep those viewers tuned in like this regularly, without needing to resort to PPV-level cards every week. Not an easy task, but this is where proper storytelling and promo segment come in and will play into that success. 

Realistically they're not going to hold that type of viewership anytime soon throughout a whole normal episode, but that's what they need to go for and figure out how to to do it without, as I mentioned before, getting a PPV quality card on the show. Hope they figure it out as it's the only way they're going to have a chance at growing their audience.

Baker/Soho main event total viewer number was fine, even if one of the two lowest of the night because it still held pretty steady with the rest of the show. The demo number though is a bit of a bad sign, but overall they did well to maintain the number.

MJF/Pillman is the only thing that really gaped down out of the range. There was heat there and a bit of an angle built in, but it's still the noticeable dip. Still, a 1.19 million low isn't bad for AEW. 

Next week is definitely going to dip though. Ideally they'll get something higher than last week's average.


----------



## CM Buck

AEW kinda deserves this L. All the promotion they put into it and hype it was given it should have gotten a 1.5 or above easily. 

Having slept the only match I clearly remember is Bryan vs omega and the only segment is punks promo. That's fine if they were in Alabama but not new York.

Certain cities you have to be firing every big gun. It felt like they only fired one


----------



## THANOS

3venflow said:


> So basically, if they had replaced MJF/Pillman with Punk/Hobbs or Mox/Eddie vs. Suzuki-gun, they probably would've beaten Raw in the demo. Younger viewers started to tune out in the last two quarters though.
> 
> View attachment 109044


Now to comment on this.

Bryan continuing to prove his drawing power is nice to see. I wish there was a minute breakdown just to see if the fans in Q4 tuned out the minute Punk finished his promo or of they tuned out mid-promo. I'm guessing it's the former.

Black/Cody doing the highest after Bryan/Omega surprised me. I'm happy to see it. I haven't been following how Cody and Black have done independent of each other. Maybe something else can touch on this. I'm curious if it's a testament of one of them, both of them, or their feud in general?

Not surprised that Darby/Sting and Britt held the rest of the show reasonably high. All 3 are solid draws for the company.


----------



## THANOS

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1441188848772386817
🤣


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

THANOS said:


> I agree with your points, but a larger thing to mention is that AEW is a 2 year company and through sheer will, deep pockets, faithful long term booking, and a edgy product, have managed to beat RAW, with all it's tenure, in the demo the past 2 weeks prior to this one.
> 
> 2 years ago, we would all be laughing at this prospect as a pipe dream.
> 
> Yes, Grand Slam was a PPV card on free TV, but it's still a 2 year company.
> 
> This same 2 year company just sold 20,000+ tickets in New York by themselves. It's not like when ROH/NJPW soldout MSG, because it was WrestleMania weekend and those fans were already there. This was all by themselves with no assist or alley-oop from big brother WWE.
> 
> Someone brought up Google Trends and said they were neck and neck between WWE and AEW this week, which is unheard of for a 2nd wrestling company.
> 
> People in here raising their pom-poms because a RAW featuring their largest draw and coming off a World Title change the previous week beat this 2 year company by 0.01 in the key demo are missing the point.
> 
> The fact that this discussion and this competition is even happening is the only thing worth celebrating.


*That's fair for you to say, but I answer your "2 year company" with unlimited budget and creative freedom. That's not a hard foundation to build off of. We're not talking ROH with a couple hundred thousand dollars and no recognizable names here. Tony Khan just hoarded every top indy God in a small time frame. Of course that'll boost ratings in conjunction with significantly improved show quality. My problem has always been with people who make excuses for bad shows that do bad ratings, then turn around and act like the spectacular shows with higher ratings have ALWAYS been the standard here. We both know that's not the case. *


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Firefromthegods said:


> AEW kinda deserves this L. All the promotion they put into it and hype it was given it should have gotten a 1.5 or above easily.
> 
> Having slept the only match I clearly remember is Bryan vs omega and the only segment is punks promo. That's fine if they were in Alabama but not new York.
> 
> Certain cities you have to be firing every big gun. It felt like they only fired one


Hardly can call this an L


----------



## CM Buck

Botchy SinCara said:


> Hardly can call this an L


It's a solid rating. But a new York you kinda expect atleast a 1.7.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Firefromthegods said:


> AEW kinda deserves this L. All the promotion they put into it and hype it was given it should have gotten a 1.5 or above easily.
> 
> Having slept the only match I clearly remember is Bryan vs omega and the only segment is punks promo. That's fine if they were in Alabama but not new York.
> 
> Certain cities you have to be firing every big gun. It felt like they only fired one


I kinda agree with the guns firing analogy. It was a killer atmosphere that deserves more than 1 gun firing, and I think they had a few they should have used:

#1. Kingston should have beaten Miro in the main event. That match didn’t even need to be at All Out. The hometown pop Eddie would have gotten for winning his biggest title in his career would have made the show very memorable. Would have been similar to when Mick Foley won on Raw.

#2. After the Omega/BD draw, you gotta have Hangman there to pop the crowd back up and showdown in the ring,

That was 2 guns that coulda been fired, but they didn’t do it. They are saving a pretty big angle I see from spoilers with Masvidal on Rampage, and they coulda used that too tho it probably wouldn’t have had much effect


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

validreasoning said:


> I am sure if The Rock is advertised and Brock Lesnar vs Reigns for WWE title while Conor McGregor and Jon Jones show up and we have Rollins vs Orton loser leaves WWE ladder match all promoted for six months SD would do similar number to debut on Fox...


The Rock.. Sure that'll pop a rating but the guy aint sticking around. 

Nobody gives a shit about Brock vs Roman Part 5. They've all been shit matches. 

Conor and Jones. Popping that rating but not sticking around. 

And nobody would give a shit about Rollins vs Orton.


----------



## JTB33b

Honestly I don't care much about the ratings, aslong as it's good enough to stay on the air. I don't let ratings dictate what show I enjoy more and right now I am loving AEW much better than Raw. And even Smackdown. I watched AEW live this week and have a few times already. I haven't watched a live episode of Raw or Smackdown or PPV in 15 years or so. I record it and watch it later that night so I can fast forward all the garbage.


----------



## La Parka

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Nobody gives a shit about Brock vs Roman Part 5. They've all been shit matches.


Brock vs Roman 1 was fantastic.


----------



## Mister Sinister

MJF sank the rating. They needed representation for black and Latino audiences on their "biggest show ever." That episode looked like All White Wrestling to non-white audiences.


----------



## Chelsea

Page 666


----------



## Prosper

Dark Emperor said:


> Lol I swear the difference was like 0.01-0.02 both weeks whilst losing viewership by 500k+. Not exactly destroyed.
> 
> Anyway the whole rating debate is pointless as they are on different nights and AEW fans have now decided viewership is irrelevant.
> 
> Raw is definitely on the toughest weekday in terms of TV competition plus it’s 3hrs so the comparison will never be like for like.


Lol what Come on my guy I like you as a poster but you gotta keep the same energy in your comparisons


----------



## A PG Attitude

Firefromthegods said:


> It's a solid rating. But a new York you kinda expect atleast a 1.7.


Yeah you do expect that rating. It says more about the wrestling fanbase than the show itself. More people watched Eva Marie than omega vs Bryan... let that sink in


----------



## CM Buck

A PG Attitude said:


> Yeah you do expect that rating. It says more about the wrestling fanbase than the show itself. More people watched Eva Marie than omega vs Bryan... let that sink in


I just kinda wanted AEW to steal new York. With the rating, WWE won't be shook.


----------



## Prosper

A PG Attitude said:


> Yeah you do expect that rating. It says more about the wrestling fanbase than the show itself. More people watched Eva Marie than omega vs Bryan... let that sink in


Exactly, We cant just forget about the loyal factor either. No way is anyone sitting there watching RAW thinking that it’s even close to the quality that AEW delivers on a weekly basis (assuming that they know what AEW is) It’s night and day.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

RapShepard said:


> I don't disagree with you, but @LifeInCattleClass has a fair point. If something like AHS is considered mainstream shouldn't something like AEW which is de facto more viewed be considered mainstream is well. It's kind of like how this rapper NF's last album went platinum and The Migos last album as of now hasn't. But he's still not mainstream and they are, despite him clearly selling more.


Mainstream means that most people in the general public know it. I've used this example before but Taylor Swift is a good example of someone who is completely mainstream. No matter what country or continent you're from you probably know the name of Taylor Swift and know that she's a singer and could probably name at least one of her songs. I'm a guy into rock music generally and I know who Taylor Swift is because she's played on the radio, she's on billboards, she's popping up on my socials whenever she does anything, her music is played in popular movies, on commercials, on international television etc. THAT is mainstream.

WWE to an extent is mainstream I guess but you don't see them hitting traditional media outlets like they used to. I can still go into a shop here in Australia and see their merchandising out there though, most people here know what it is, when WWE tours they do get on the national talk shows and have their stars out there. AEW has none of this. Hell, their top young star in Darby Allin was talking to local news outlets and doing podcasts for fans last time I checked.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

Mister Sinister said:


> MJF sank the rating. They needed representation for black and Latino audiences on their "biggest show ever." That episode looked like All White Wrestling to non-white audiences.


Pretty sure this is just their biggest show to date based on attendance. 

And cut the race baiting bs.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Prosper said:


> Exactly, We cant just forget about the loyal factor either. No way is anyone sitting there watching RAW thinking that it’s even close to the quality that AEW delivers on a weekly basis (assuming that they know what AEW is) It’s night and day.


I set my alarm for 1am and ruined my work day so I could watch Dynamite live. Ain't nobody doing that for Raw.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

A PG Attitude said:


> Yeah you do expect that rating. It says more about the wrestling fanbase than the show itself. More people watched Eva Marie than omega vs Bryan... let that sink in





Chip Chipperson said:


> Mainstream means that most people in the general public know it. I've used this example before but Taylor Swift is a good example of someone who is completely mainstream. No matter what country or continent you're from you probably know the name of Taylor Swift and know that she's a singer and could probably name at least one of her songs. I'm a guy into rock music generally and I know who Taylor Swift is because she's played on the radio, she's on billboards, she's popping up on my socials whenever she does anything, her music is played in popular movies, on commercials, on international television etc. THAT is mainstream.
> 
> WWE to an extent is mainstream I guess but you don't see them hitting traditional media outlets like they used to. I can still go into a shop here in Australia and see their merchandising out there though, most people here know what it is, when WWE tours they do get on the national talk shows and have their stars out there. AEW has none of this. Hell, their top young star in Darby Allin was talking to local news outlets and doing podcasts for fans last time I checked.


All that this says about anything is that almost nothing these days is considered mainstream unless it's an almost absolutely global phenomenon.

Was Hulk Hogan _*"mainstream"*_ in Brazil, Russia, India and China back in 1986?

Is Taylor Swift now?

Would Charlie Chaplin be a draw today?

Almost nothing is mainstream unless you are at that absolute pinnacle -- but how do you think you get there? 

Tap the vein of an audience looking for something good; reward them and let them pass on that good word to others.
This is exactly what Tony Khan is trying to do. Word of mouth travels even further today than any form of advertising. 
Fuck being mainstream -- stir up some chatter in the world and bank on it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dark Emperor said:


> AEW is nowhere near mainstream. WWE is not really mainstream either but everyone knows who they are. |Their social media number are insane
> 
> They enter mainstream during Wrestlemania & Summerslam weekends. WWE also reach mainstream as they get a lot of collaboration with stars like Trae Young, Logan Paul & Bad Bunny etc.
> 
> But in terms of weekly content, wrestling is no longer mainstream. Neither is MMA and Boxing. They like WWE, become mainstream during big fights like Mcgregor, Canelo etc. But they aint red hot all year round. AEW does better PPV than majority of boxing cards these days.


then what on that weekly list is mainstream?

that was my question


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Wrestling itself is barely mainstream anymore, how would AEW even be considered?


what show on that top 10 list would you consider ‘mainstream’ ?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> So basically, if they had replaced MJF/Pillman with Punk/Hobbs or Mox/Eddie vs. Suzuki-gun, they probably would've beaten Raw in the demo. Younger viewers started to tune out in the last two quarters though.
> 
> View attachment 109044


the real question is, did the young bucks tank the ratings?

clearly people didn’t think omega / bryan was starting - hence the spike there when they heard


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *@THANOS I'm not celebrating but it's not ludicrous if someone wants to. RAW was mediocre as usual aside from the Alexa and Charlotte segment, Nattie and Tamina dropping the tag titles, and the main event, so it's worth noting that Roman Reigns' presence and Big E simply being champion beat an AEW PPV card given away on free television. This show's match quality was better than All Out's on paper, so if they lose the demo and can't hit 1.3 at the same time, don't be surprised when people rub it in.*


Reigns > Baker confirmed?


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

LifeInCattleClass said:


> then what on that weekly list is mainstream?
> 
> that was my question


Obviously, amongst younger viewers -- not cable television. 

Amongst 18-49 year olds that still have cable in America.. Wrestling for the men. 

And The Real Housewives of Nowhere for the women.


----------



## The_Great_One21

Less than 1.3

Honestly, I think it’s time we just accepted that wrestling has become a niche product.

Omega Vs Danielson ffs, and that couldn’t do 1.3m. CM Punk has returned and that hasn’t pushed us past 1.3 consistently. The two biggest WWE stars of the 2010s and that hasn’t even created a big jump in the ratings.

It’s time to accept that where the ratings are now is where they will will always be because wrestling doesn’t get casuals anymore. This show was stacked and promoted like fuck. And still does less than 1.3m.

Time to accept it’s never going to get past 1.5m. I’ll be surprised if it ever beats the debut show. The chance to do that and gets as many eyes on the product as possible was Punks debut. And they stupidly do that on Rampage.

1.3m feels like the top sadly.


----------



## A PG Attitude

The_Great_One21 said:


> Less than 1.3
> 
> Honestly, I think it’s time we just accepted that wrestling has become a niche product.
> 
> Omega Vs Danielson ffs, and that couldn’t do 1.3m. CM Punk has returned and that hasn’t pushed us past 1.3 consistently. The two biggest WWE stars of the 2010s and that hasn’t even created a big jump in the ratings.
> 
> It’s time to accept that where the ratings are now is where they will will always be because wrestling doesn’t get casuals anymore. This show was stacked and promoted like fuck. And still does less than 1.3m.
> 
> Time to accept it’s never going to get past 1.5m. I’ll be surprised if it ever beats the debut show. The chance to do that and gets as many eyes on the product as possible was Punks debut. And they stupidly do that on Rampage.
> 
> 1.3m feels like the top sadly.


A friend of mine who is a big UfC fan that I talk to about AEW All the time... he is a graphic designer who has his own business designing and selling wrestling t shirts... I can't get him to watch any wrestling at all even though he's enthusiastic about the business side of things. It just shows how hard it is to bring people back to wrestling.


----------



## A PG Attitude

ps... if this kind of t shirt is your thing let me know and I'll send you the shop link


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Very good points - maybe AEW needs to put on badder shows  🤣


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1441188848772386817


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

The_Great_One21 said:


> Less than 1.3
> 
> Honestly, I think it’s time we just accepted that wrestling has become a niche product.
> 
> Omega Vs Danielson ffs, and that couldn’t do 1.3m. CM Punk has returned and that hasn’t pushed us past 1.3 consistently. The two biggest WWE stars of the 2010s and that hasn’t even created a big jump in the ratings.
> 
> It’s time to accept that where the ratings are now is where they will will always be because wrestling doesn’t get casuals anymore. This show was stacked and promoted like fuck. And still does less than 1.3m.
> 
> Time to accept it’s never going to get past 1.5m. I’ll be surprised if it ever beats the debut show. The chance to do that and gets as many eyes on the product as possible was Punks debut. And they stupidly do that on Rampage.
> 
> 1.3m feels like the top sadly.


Casuals are just another name for people that aren't watching the show. If the show is good and someone can show them that it's good, they'll hang around. 

The shows are good. The crowds are hot. Their audience is invested. Just gotta spread the good word to other people.. Unfortunately WWE has been so fucking embarrassing for so long now that a lot of wrestling fans are still in the closet -- like wrestling is some guilty pleasure. 


*Fuck that shit! Wrestling is fucking awesome!*


People used to laugh about comic books back in the 80's and the 90's -- now look at it. 
People used to laugh about video games and Dungeons and Dragons -- now look at it. 

Times are a changing.


Now all AEW needs is a streaming service. But then again that's been Tony Khans plan all along


----------



## Not Lying

The worst thing AEW can do is hot shot stuff and spend insane amount of money on useless crap; that’s what will be detrimental to them.

NXT lost after they hot shotted Keith Lee vs Adam Cole title unification match and then had Lee drop it a month later to Kross. All over the place bad bookig for your top title. 
HBK and HHH should know better but they got their ass handed to them by our lord and Savior of professional wrestling TONY KHAN. 

AEW needs to Continue to grow slowly and don’t spend money on old crap like TNA did in 2010 😉


----------



## zkorejo

Dark Emperor said:


> Haha yeah because Meltzer told you that right?
> 
> Do you guys know how much money 50-60 year olds have lol. If you really think those young single males that make up the majority of AEW fans are more attractive once advertiser break down the numbers in detail, then you are deluded.


It's not about how much money they have. The idea is they are less likely to spend alot of that money on buying stuff like shirts and merch. They won't be waiting for the toys and tickets or cm punk shirts. 

The older you get the wiser you get, the lesser you spend on such stuff. The younger you are, you are more likely to buy (impulse/yolo) more stuff.


----------



## ThunderNitro

Tony Schiavone is expected to give away the identities of the Masked Singers on next week's live Dynamite show. So expect a massive ratings drop for the Rochester event.


----------



## thorn123

There will be another wrestling boom but I don’t see it happening in the next five years. WWE has irreparably upset so many fans over the last 20 years that many are unwilling to give the current product a fair go - whether that be AEW or WWE or any other promotion.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

zkorejo said:


> It's not about how much money they have. The idea is they are less likely to spend alot of that money on buying stuff like shirts and merch. They won't be waiting for the toys and tickets or cm punk shirts.
> 
> The older you get the wiser you get, the lesser you spend on such stuff. The younger you are, you are more likely to buy (impulse/yolo) more stuff.


Or maybe, even beyond impulse buying some merch or fast food, you're looking to buy a new car or even something like an SUV or a van or a truck because you're 30ish and are having kids or working and need a new ride.

---------------

I've heard the argument before that advertisers viewed wrestling fans as poor and stupid, or the show as crude and vulgar, so they didn't want to advertise to them. 

But realistically, unless your market is the golfing class of society and you're pushing ads for Rolex's, Armani suits, and yachts -- wrestling fans are about as middle class as you can get these days and the middle class need to buy things. 

That is a gigantic market to tap in to. Even if it's not super glamorous, wrestling fans buy cars, eat food, deal with banks, buy insurance etc.

When AEW starts having commercials for Acorn stairlifts and Life Alert @ me. 

(not you though, you're one of the good ones.  )


----------



## Swan-San

They've put on a shitty TV show for the last two years, it'll take more than a couple good shows in a row and debuts to boost viewership permanently. Hopefully it stays how it's been recently and doesn't revert back to trash


----------



## Chip Chipperson

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Or maybe, even beyond impulse buying some merch or fast food, you're looking to buy a new car or even something like an SUV or a van or a truck because you're 30ish and are having kids or working and need a new ride.
> 
> ---------------
> 
> I've heard the argument before that advertisers viewed wrestling fans as poor and stupid, or the show as crude and vulgar, so they didn't want to advertise to them.
> 
> But realistically, unless your market is the golfing class of society and you're pushing ads for Rolex's, Armani suits, and yachts -- wrestling fans are about as middle class as you can get these days and the middle class need to buy things.
> 
> That is a gigantic market to tap in to. Even if it's not super glamorous, wrestling fans buy cars, eat food, deal with banks, buy insurance etc.
> 
> When AEW starts having commercials for Acorn stairlifts and Life Alert @ me.
> 
> (not you though, you're one of the good ones.  )


Wrestling fans aren't middle class though, according to the Reddit Census they make 8k a year under the average wage and many under 25 are making 0-15k a year.


----------



## DaSlacker

Had my nephew and niece at my house yesterday. I'm watching Omega vs Danielson again on TV whilst they are playing on their tablets.

She glances at it a couple of times, asks briefly what I'm watching and keeps referring to it as WWE. I never corrected her. My nephew, who used to be in to WWE, thought it was another NXT offshoot.

Moral of the story. WWE and US pro wrestling are seemingly interchangeable. Especially outside of North America and amongst your non devotees. That's what happens when your king for nearly 40 years and the world becomes infatuated with corporate led franchises and brands.

The only way AEW will gain serious traction is if WWE's reach falls of a cliff. The only way wrestling will boom again is if WWE dies and children not born yet have to ask their parents "What was WWE? "


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Very good points - maybe AEW needs to put on badder shows  🤣
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1441188848772386817


*That's definitely not the solution. That's how they tank ratings. If 1.3 is their ceiling, it is what it is. Keep putting on great shows and the bandwagon will grow slowly. They've got to do whatever they can to get wrestling fans to move to TBS with them, and their primary focus right now should be to increase the quality of Rampage, which is staying on TNT.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *That's definitely not the solution. That's how they tank ratings. If 1.3 is their ceiling, it is what it is. Keep putting on great shows and the bandwagon will grow slowly. They've got to do whatever they can to get wrestling fans to move to TBS with them, and their primary focus right now should be to increase the quality of Rampage, which is staying on TNT.*


it was a joke - the whole video is a joke


----------



## Not Lying

The Legit DMD said:


> *That's fair for you to say, but I answer your "2 year company" with unlimited budget and creative freedom. That's not a hard foundation to build off of. We're not talking ROH with a couple hundred thousand dollars and no recognizable names here. Tony Khan just hoarded every top indy God in a small time frame. Of course that'll boost ratings in conjunction with significantly improved show quality. My problem has always been with people who make excuses for bad shows that do bad ratings, then turn around and act like the spectacular shows with higher ratings have ALWAYS been the standard here. We both know that's not the case. *


You gotta take the good with the bad at first 🤷‍♂️
Of course I’d have taken a more experienced manager and booker, and I’d give all EVPs and Jericho MUCH less control over their stuff. I do think it’s stupid that that someone like QT just took charge of formatting because “it looked fun”. 

He’s learning on the job and I wanted to believe that those early “great shows” where gona become the norm. I mean AEW was 6.5-7.5 to me before the arrival of Punk and Bryan, and hell now I’m still riding that wave, those 2 are talented guys and with good booming and stories can make the show quality a regular 8/10 causing more fans to tune in. 

That’s the 2-year argument from, AEW still has a lot of room to grow and improve, and they’re off to a great start, especially considering they had a damn pandemic that they quickly needed to adapt to, which must have dragged a ton shit and gave us subpar stuff. I don’t think at any point when making his investment in wrestling did TK think he’ll have to book shows for 1.5 years with no fans.


----------



## RollinsHardyStyles

The Legit DMD said:


> *@THANOS I'm not celebrating but it's not ludicrous if someone wants to. RAW was mediocre as usual aside from the Alexa and Charlotte segment, Nattie and Tamina dropping the tag titles, and the main event, so it's worth noting that Roman Reigns' presence and Big E simply being champion beat an AEW PPV card given away on free television. This show's match quality was better than All Out's on paper, so if they lose the demo and can't hit 1.3 at the same time, don't be surprised when people rub it in.*


I mean sure, but that doesn't change the fact that that isn't the level RAW should be holding itself to. From WWE's perspective, surely they don't think that their Universal Champion, that they've been pushing for 7 years as a singles star at this point, and a new WWE Champion on the same show narrowly beating Dynamite is some huge success. As I said before, we shouldn't lose sight of the bigger picture here that RAW has been trending down massively in the last 5 years or so, while AEW has managed to get within a close range to RAW in the key demo in just 2 years. On a week-by-week basis, I get that WWE should be relieved that they didn't get beat by AEW 3 weeks in a row, but on a larger scale, they need to realise that their viewership has dropped over 33% in two years, so this isn't some huge success for them imo.

And just to reiterate, this Roman Reigns era has been going for 7 years. The RAW after the first Wrestlmania he main evented drew 5.39m viewers, the RAW after Mania this year was at 2.125m, thats a recession of over 60% in 6 years. And if your gut reaction is to say that Reigns is on SmackDown not RAW, well the SD after Mania didn't even do 2m this year. Granted their numbers have gone up since the crowds have been back, but let's not forget that when the Fox deal happened, the reports were that Fox was expecting SD to deliver viewership in the mid-3m. Even as WWE fans, we shouldn't try to spin this long-term recession into a positive just because RAW beat Dynamite this week.


----------



## RollinsHardyStyles

THANOS said:


> I agree with your points, but a larger thing to mention is that AEW is a 2 year company and through sheer will, deep pockets, faithful long term booking, and a edgy product, have managed to beat RAW, with all it's tenure, in the demo the past 2 weeks prior to this one.
> 
> 2 years ago, we would all be laughing at this prospect as a pipe dream.
> 
> Yes, Grand Slam was a PPV card on free TV, but it's still a 2 year company.
> 
> This same 2 year company just sold 20,000+ tickets in New York by themselves. It's not like when ROH/NJPW soldout MSG, because it was WrestleMania weekend and those fans were already there. This was all by themselves with no assist or alley-oop from big brother WWE.
> 
> Someone brought up Google Trends and said they were neck and neck between WWE and AEW this week, which is unheard of for a 2nd wrestling company.
> 
> People in here raising their pom-poms because a RAW featuring their largest draw and coming off a World Title change the previous week beat this 2 year company by 0.01 in the key demo are missing the point.
> 
> The fact that this discussion and this competition is even happening is the only thing worth celebrating.


Thank you, very well put what I've been trying to say.


----------



## the_flock

3venflow said:


> Wonder if this affected the total viewership in any way like MNF with Raw. No idea which of the 'many premiers' would eat into Dynamite since I don't have US network TV.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1441131286165274628


Oh yes that will be it, all those Neckbeards chose to watch the masked singer instead of Danielson/Omega.


----------



## the_flock

Botchy SinCara said:


> Roman stains on here and twitter need to calm down ..dude still didn't increase raw that much and a 0.01 difference isn't much
> 
> That being said I expected better for the show ..maybe their gamble of having Bryan and Omega open the show will end up helping by having new eyes at the start
> 
> 
> The quarterly break down should be Interesting


The difference was over 500k. Forget about the demo. People on here were predicting an extra 300k viewers.


----------



## the_flock

TheGreatBanana said:


> This isn’t about Smackdown, it’s about Dynamite. WWE is a mature company, whilst AEW is a startup that needs all the momentum it can get. It started strong, but viewership then declined. Now they have the likes of Bryan, Punk. Big stars and they’re still unable to top the number from their debut even with supercards. AEW should be striving to be greater than their debut show. All they are doing is catering to the indy marks that loved the NXT takeovers years ago. That fan base has transferred over to AEW.


It's not a startup. It hasn't been for 2 years. Sick of saying that now. It's just an excuse. Just like the demo is clutching at straws.


----------



## Not Lying

@the_flock why are you so BITTER? 

Also look-up how many years a company gets to be called a start-up so you embarass yourself less. You're like a child throwing a tantrum.


----------



## the_flock

THANOS said:


> This.
> 
> RAW beat them by 0.49 compared to 0.48 and had Roman (who's their biggest active draw) on the show and following a huge title change the previous week.
> 
> Celebrating this, when we should all be amazed at how quickly 2-3 year old company has rose to compete with RAW, is ridiculous.


They're not competing, they're still 500k viewers behind. Ignore the demo it's meaningless. 

Which is funny because before the numbers came out, people were talking more about overall viewership, now the numbers are lower than they were expecting, its back to talking about the demo.


----------



## the_flock

LifeInCattleClass said:


> can somebody from the US give us some insight here?
> 
> @RapShepard / @The Definition of Technician ?
> 
> American horror story is mainstream, no? And aew smashes that
> 
> View attachment 109033


No one watched American Horror story anymore, it peaked about 5 years ago.


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Very good points - maybe AEW needs to put on badder shows  🤣
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1441188848772386817


So the guy is saying that AEW should do what led to a decrease in viewers for the WWE ?


----------



## the_flock

DaveRA said:


> There will be another wrestling boom but I don’t see it happening in the next five years. WWE has irreparably upset so many fans over the last 20 years that many are unwilling to give the current product a fair go - whether that be AEW or WWE or any other promotion.


Or those people that watched during the Attitude era, got jobs, families and have no time to watch 20 hours of wrestling every week and would rather do something else. 

How many people watch Netflix, Prime, Disney+ for more hours than they do wrestling. That's the issue. Also most wrestling shows are 3 hours long, in that time you could watch 4 to 6 episodes of another show.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> So the guy is saying that AEW should do what led to a decrease in viewers for the WWE ?


the guy is joking


----------



## the_flock

The Definition of Technician said:


> @the_flock why are you so BITTER?
> 
> Also look-up how many years a company gets to be called a start-up so you embarass yourself less. You're like a child throwing a tantrum.


I'm not embarrassing myself. Some of you guys will still be calling AEW a startup in 10 years time. A startup is a company in its initial stage of business. It stops being a startup when it's found its gap in the market. AEW is now classed as an enterprise. 

It's like the demo argument, when ratings aren't what people were expecting, it's all about the demo, when they think there a chance of a big ratings boost like this week, it's all about the ratings. When talking about WWE it's all about how many millions of viewers they've lost. When it's AEW it's all about how many teenage Neckbeards they appeal to.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

the_flock said:


> I'm not embarrassing myself. Some of you guys will still be calling AEW a startup in 10 years time. A startup is a company in its initial stage of business. It stops being a startup when it's found its gap in the market. AEW is now classed as an enterprise.
> 
> It's like the demo argument, when ratings aren't what people were expecting, it's all about the demo, when they think there a chance of a big ratings boost like this week, it's all about the ratings. When talking about WWE it's all about how many millions of viewers they've lost. When it's AEW it's all about how many teenage Neckbeards they appeal to.


any company that is primarily funded by the owner(s) and is still in development / growth phase and is below 3-5 years can be called a start-up


----------



## the_flock

LifeInCattleClass said:


> any company that is primarily funded by the owner(s) and is still in development / growth phase and is below 3-5 years can be called a start-up


Spin it however you want mate. Anyone with any business sense will tell you that AEW stopped being a startup when they signed their TV deal. 

The time frame is irrelevant. A startup can still be classed as a startup in 10 years if it hasn't made significant progress in development. 

Stop reading Google and going by the first post you see which says less than 5 years and actually study business.


----------



## Honey Bucket

You do seem very angry for no reason.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

the_flock said:


> Spin it however you want mate. Anyone with any business sense will tell you that AEW stopped being a startup when they signed their TV deal.
> 
> The time frame is irrelevant. A startup can still be classed as a startup in 10 years if it hasn't made significant progress in development.
> 
> Stop reading Google and going by the first post you see which says less than 5 years and actually study business.


lol - no, that is actually what a start-up means

sooo… 🤷‍♂️


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lol - here is the list of global start-up awards in 2020









The Global Startup Awards 2020 Global Winners have been announced! | EU-Startups


The winners of the 3rd Global Finale of the Global Startup Awards, the world’s largest independent startup ecosystem competition, have been just




www.eu-startups.com





You can get a sense for what a start-up means in here by seeing who was awarded


----------



## THANOS

The Legit DMD said:


> *That's fair for you to say, but I answer your "2 year company" with unlimited budget and creative freedom. That's not a hard foundation to build off of. We're not talking ROH with a couple hundred thousand dollars and no recognizable names here. Tony Khan just hoarded every top indy God in a small time frame. Of course that'll boost ratings in conjunction with significantly improved show quality. My problem has always been with people who make excuses for bad shows that do bad ratings, then turn around and act like the spectacular shows with higher ratings have ALWAYS been the standard here. We both know that's not the case. *


Unlimited budget & creative freedom for sure, but those don't equal viewers right away. Even with a full marketing machine behind you, it still takes a long time to build a strong viewerbase and then slowly build on that.

With AEW, they can advertise during NBA games which helps, and Tony has endless cashflow to help market in specific cities on billboards and the streets, but it still takes time for people to see AEW and understand what that is. For a vast majority of lapsed fans, WWE is the only wrestling in the world. They don't know any better.

As for your point about making excuses for bad shows, I know that exists on here, so I won't question it. I can only speak for myself and will say, I don't post often, but if I give my thoughts, I'll call a spade a spade. I lean positive generally, because WWE broke my fandom and AEW re-kindled it, but I'm going to change the channel if something doesn't interest me 100%. Shawn Spears for example is an instant channel changer for me.



RollinsHardyStyles said:


> Thank you, very well put what I've been trying to say.


Appreciate it my friend.



the_flock said:


> They're not competing, they're still 500k viewers behind. Ignore the demo it's meaningless.
> 
> Which is funny because before the numbers came out, people were talking more about overall viewership, now the numbers are lower than they were expecting, its back to talking about the demo.


Think what you like, it is what it is. I don't need to validate the points about the importance of the 18-49 Demo and the direct correlation with TV revenue contracts. The story will be told for me the next time WWE & AEW negotiate their cable contracts. We'll see what both get.

If AEW gets near what WWE gets for RAW/NXT package, then I hope I see you in here admitting you were wrong.


----------



## the_flock

THANOS said:


> Unlimited budget & creative freedom for sure, but those don't equal viewers right away. Even with a full marketing machine behind you, it still takes a long time to build a strong viewerbase and then slowly build on that.
> 
> With AEW, they can advertise during NBA games which helps, and Tony has endless cashflow to help market in specific cities on billboards and the streets, but it still takes time for people to see AEW and understand what that is. For a vast majority of lapsed fans, WWE is the only wrestling in the world. They don't know any better.
> 
> As for your point about making excuses for bad shows, I know that exists on here, so I won't question it. I can only speak for myself and will say, I don't post often, but if I give my thoughts, I'll call a spade a spade. I lean positive generally, because WWE broke my fandom and AEW re-kindled it, but I'm going to change the channel if something doesn't interest me 100%. Shawn Spears for example is an instant channel changer for me.
> 
> 
> 
> Appreciate it my friend.
> 
> 
> 
> Think what you like, it is what it is. I don't need to validate the points about the importance of the 18-49 Demo and the direct correlation with TV revenue contracts. The story will be told for me the next time WWE & AEW negotiate their cable contracts. We'll see what both get.
> 
> If AEW gets near what WWE gets for RAW/NXT package, then I hope I see you in here admitting you were wrong.


AEW will not be getting a similar deal to WWE, that is pure fantasy. They will be lucky to get a better deal than they have now. Their last deal was marginally better than their previous deal.


----------



## the_flock

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol - no, that is actually what a start-up means
> 
> sooo… 🤷‍♂️


We could argue all day. Let's agree to disagree.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

the_flock said:


> We could argue all day. Let's agree to disagree.


uhmmm, no - in this case i am just right

aew is still a start-up

we can agree to disagree about other stuff, but not this

i worked for a tech company that was 4 years old, 120 staff, evaluated at 100m usd and was still considered a start-up - aew is in very much the same boat. In fact, they’re more of a start-up than the company i described, cause we got first round funding


----------



## DammitChrist

the_flock said:


> They're not competing, they're still 500k viewers behind. Ignore the demo it's meaningless.
> 
> Which is funny because before the numbers came out, people were talking more about overall viewership, now the numbers are lower than they were expecting, its back to talking about the demo.


The demographic numbers matter too. You need to wake up.


----------



## AuthorOfPosts

AEW are doing well for how long they've been around. Tony Khan's connections are a big part of that, so is AEW's lack of needing to worry about being profitable which is why the argument of "WWE have a lot of money" doesn't make sense.

The main issue is AEW fans going from "AEW's about to take over the world" one week and then going "You can't expect miracles, AEW is just a start up" the next week. Make up your minds.


----------



## omaroo

LifeInCattleClass said:


> uhmmm, no - in this case i am just right
> 
> aew is still a start-up
> 
> we can agree to disagree about other stuff, but not this
> 
> i worked for a tech company that was 4 years old, 120 staff, evaluated at 100m usd and was still considered a start-up - aew is in very much the same boat. In fact, they’re more of a start-up than the company i described, cause we got first round funding





DammitChrist said:


> The demographic numbers matter too. You need to wake up.


Guys I wouldn't waste my time on haters. They will hate AEW no matter what and keep chatting nonsense as usual.


----------



## AuthorOfPosts

DammitChrist said:


> The demographic numbers matter too. You need to wake up.


Overall viewership matters most. Especially if you're a wrestling fan wanting to turn it into a competition about which one is more popular and how you're better because you're watching the more popular show... sounds pathetic I know. What's more pathetic though is having to pick a specific part of the viewership, pretending you care about what the advertisers like, and then screaming you're a winner.

Do people do this with any other shows? Do you watch a show and think "Yes! This will play well with the key demo, the advertisers will love that!".


----------



## thorn123

the_flock said:


> Or those people that watched during the Attitude era, got jobs, families and have no time to watch 20 hours of wrestling every week and would rather do something else.
> 
> How many people watch Netflix, Prime, Disney+ for more hours than they do wrestling. That's the issue. Also most wrestling shows are 3 hours long, in that time you could watch 4 to 6 episodes of another show.


No doubt … I watch 3 hours of AEW , and I have always liked Lashley and reigns but ther are only so many hours in the week.


----------



## the_flock

AuthorOfPosts said:


> Overall viewership matters most. Especially if you're a wrestling fan wanting to turn it into a competition about which one is more popular and how you're better because you're watching the more popular show... sounds pathetic I know. What's more pathetic though is having to pick a specific part of the viewership, pretending you care about what the advertisers like, and then screaming you're a winner.
> 
> Do people do this with any other shows? Do you watch a show and think "Yes! This will play well with the key demo, the advertisers will love that!".


Thanks for this. I've been saying this for months. AEW smarks always want a war, no matter how silly their arguments are. 

AEW beat WWE in a demo that's irrelevant to their lives = AEW is the hottest thing ever, watch out WWE. 

AEW beat WWE in a meaningless demo for the 2nd week showcasing their latest multi million dollar former WWE superstars = Game Over, Good bye WWE. 

AEW put out a PPV quality show, people stop caring about demo and start talking about overall ratings, end up losing both ratings and meaningless demo = Yeah well, AEW was up against the Masked Singer and American Horror Story is still popular right guys, guys, guys. Oh well AEW is still only a startup, you can't expect miracles... 

Next week when Husky Harris debuts and they get a short ratings boost, it will be the same shit over again. 

The problem is there are only so many guys they can wheel out until they stop popping a short rating.


----------



## the_flock

omaroo said:


> Guys I wouldn't waste my time on haters. They will hate AEW no matter what and keep chatting nonsense as usual.


No one's hating on anything. 

Why is it anyone with a different opinion is a hater, or a WWE mark, or they're up Vince's arse.


----------



## DammitChrist

the_flock said:


> No one's hating on anything.
> 
> Why is it anyone with a different opinion is a hater, or a WWE mark, or they're up Vince's arse.


You sound frustrated about their success.


----------



## Bubbly2

Has their been a breakdown of the ratings yet?


----------



## the_flock

Bubbly2 said:


> Has their been a breakdown of the ratings yet?


Yeah MJF surprisingly had a drop in ratings.


----------



## the_flock

DammitChrist said:


> You sound frustrated about their success.


I'm not frustrated at all. The books would be very interesting indeed. I think another Lockdown could potentially cripple AEW. If it wasn't for Shahid Kahn, I think AEW would already be done. 

I actually wanted AEW to do well. But I also want them to do their own thing, which is what sold me on them in the beginning. You had a few industry rebels leading the charge for a new alternative of pushing their own stars and only taking on a handful of Ex WWE stars, showcasing a more adult orientated show, which people were crying out for, it was exciting to see. To now relying on Ex WWE stars for a cheap ratings boost, whilst filling their roster with multi million dollar WWE stars and claiming they're not making WCW's mistakes and are not TNA 2.0. Also pushing this war agenda, which they clearly need to happen, without a war, they've got nothing. They need those headlines.


----------



## Dark Emperor

the_flock said:


> Yeah MJF surprisingly had a drop in ratings.


Lol, that’s not surprising. Always said he was overhyped right from the start. I remember members on this forum calling him the next Rock because he was good at throwing insults…. That gets old real quick if you haven’t got more layers to your character.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

MJF did well a couple weeks back in same quarter, but he’s very inconsistent. I think he’d work better as a champion who has something to lose. Right now, he’s just an irredeemable heel who’s failed in several big matches. There’s really no reason to watch his matches against low profile guys.


----------



## rbl85

So Q1 - Omega vs Bryan : 1.258M and 622K 18-49
Q2 - Omega vs Bryan : 1.373M and 679K 18-49 (peak 18-49)
Q3 - End of Omega vs Bryan + Punk promo : 1.334 and 672k 18-49 (peak 35-49)
Q4 - MJF vs Pillman : 1.190M and 600K 18-49
Q5 - end of MJF vs Pillman + Jericho-Hager promo + start of Cody vs Black : 1.272M and 654K 18-49 (peak 18-34)
Q6 - end of Cody vs Black + start of Darby/Sting vs FTR : 1.256M and 628K 18+49
Q7 - end of Darby/Sting vs FTR + intro Baker/Soho : 1.253M and 598K 18-49
Q8 - Baker vs Soho : 1.249M and 564K 18-49

The 2 top drawing matches were of course Omega vs Bryan but also Cody vs Black.


----------



## DammitChrist

I remember when Kenny Omega and Cody Rhodes were both (falsely) accused of ‘killing’ the viewership.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DammitChrist said:


> I remember when Kenny Omega and Cody Rhodes were both (falsely) accused of ‘killing’ the viewership.


if i was vindictive there was a lot i could say about that main event rating and how baker ‘tanked the ratings’ and the young bucks don’t

problem is, i like baker and wanted the main event to succeed too


----------



## Dark Emperor

No one tanked the rating this week really, the show was pretty consistent throughout except the MJF quarter.

The disappointing thing is for such a big show was the starting number was 1.2s so its no surprise the final rating wasn't higher. I'd have expected 1.4-1.5 start like a couple of weeks back when Bryan debuted.


----------



## omaroo

the_flock said:


> No one's hating on anything.
> 
> Why is it anyone with a different opinion is a hater, or a WWE mark, or they're up Vince's arse.


All your posts relating to AEW are nothing but negativity. 

Hard to see how you are not hater going off that.


----------



## Hitman1987

So the only quarter to drop ratings was the quarter without ex-wwe guys


----------



## Garty

Hitman1987 said:


> So the only quarter to drop ratings was the quarter without ex-wwe guys


It really didn't matter what happened after the Omega/Danielson match and the Punk promo. Nothing could have followed up that match. Especially not MJF vs Pillman Jr.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Hitman1987 said:


> So the only quarter to drop ratings was the quarter without ex-wwe guys


all those quarters has current AEW guys too if it makes you feel better

now post your photo wearing your marko shirt


----------



## Hitman1987

LifeInCattleClass said:


> all those quarters has current AEW guys too if it makes you feel better
> 
> now post your photo wearing your marko shirt


How many fingers would you like me to hold up, just so we can verify it’s real 😂


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Hitman1987 said:


> How many fingers would you like me to hold up, just so we can verify it’s real 😂


lol, seems only logical to have 5 fingers on the left hand to show you think marko is 5/5

and if you can, 1 finger on the right (if somebody else is taking the photo) - lol, you choose the finger 

if its a selfie…. 2 on the left hand showing ‘peace’ for all those who love marko seems appropriate 😂 😂 😂


----------



## Hitman1987

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol, seems only logical to have 5 fingers on the left hand to show you think marko is 5/5
> 
> and if you can, 1 finger on the right (if somebody else is taking the photo) - lol, you choose the finger
> 
> if its a selfie…. 2 on the left hand showing ‘peace’ for all those who love marko seems appropriate 😂 😂 😂


5 fingers left hand, 1 finger right hand 

Don’t hate the player, hate the game 😎


----------



## Hitman1987

That’s a fair point, I just worry that AEW are now relying on ex -wwe guys to get ratings and I don’t know who is left that’s actually bigger than they already have (e.g. Danielson/punk)


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Hitman1987 said:


> 5 fingers left hand, 1 finger right hand
> 
> Don’t hate the player, hate the game 😎
> 
> View attachment 109093


hahahhahaaaaa - make it known, after @Wridacule / @Hitman1987 is now the coolest and legendary motherfucker on wrestlingforum

dude, thanks for being a sport - you made my day ❤


----------



## Hitman1987

LifeInCattleClass said:


> hahahhahaaaaa - make it known, after @Wridacule / @Hitman1987 is now the coolest and legendary motherfucker on wrestlingforum
> 
> dude, thanks for being a sport - you made my day ❤


Chill out, I’m just a guy with a Marko stunt t-shirt 😂😂😂


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RollinsHardyStyles said:


> I mean sure, but that doesn't change the fact that that isn't the level RAW should be holding itself to. From WWE's perspective, surely they don't think that their Universal Champion, that they've been pushing for 7 years as a singles star at this point, and a new WWE Champion on the same show narrowly beating Dynamite is some huge success. As I said before, we shouldn't lose sight of the bigger picture here that RAW has been trending down massively in the last 5 years or so, while AEW has managed to get within a close range to RAW in the key demo in just 2 years. On a week-by-week basis, I get that WWE should be relieved that they didn't get beat by AEW 3 weeks in a row, but on a larger scale, they need to realise that their viewership has dropped over 33% in two years, so this isn't some huge success for them imo.
> 
> And just to reiterate, this Roman Reigns era has been going for 7 years. The RAW after the first Wrestlmania he main evented drew 5.39m viewers, the RAW after Mania this year was at 2.125m, thats a recession of over 60% in 6 years. And if your gut reaction is to say that Reigns is on SmackDown not RAW, well the SD after Mania didn't even do 2m this year. Granted their numbers have gone up since the crowds have been back, but let's not forget that when the Fox deal happened, the reports were that Fox was expecting SD to deliver viewership in the mid-3m. Even as WWE fans, we shouldn't try to spin this long-term recession into a positive just because RAW beat Dynamite this week.


*This is what we're not going to do. Everyone wants to blame Reigns for declines and discredit him for any gains. Prior to the Tribal Chief era, Rollins was getting pushed way more than Reigns with significantly more TV time, and had much longer title reigns. If you want to blame one person, put it on him. 

The truth is RAW's overall show quality has greatly diminished in the last two decades and fans just gave up on waiting for it to improve. As for Smackdown, they've consistently hovered around 2 mil or more for the last two years, so that's far more than can be said about RAW and its massive decline. With that said, it's definitely a win in the sense that AEW blew their entire load and still lost the demo, while all RAW needed was Roman.*


----------



## MyronGainsBrah

Building a new brand will take time. As long as they aren't losing viewers week after week it's a good sign. It could take years to get people onbord


----------



## bdon

Botchy SinCara said:


> So Bryan and Omega pulled in a better demo than ThU tRiBaL ChIEF
> 
> 
> you love to see it


The Tribal Chief worships at the altar of HIS…God of Pro-Wrestling.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Hitman1987 said:


> Chill out, I’m just a guy with a Marko stunt t-shirt 😂😂😂


mate, you‘re a legend in my book for honouring an online bet on a wrestling forum with an actual t-shirt purchase 

legit


----------



## bdon

Garty said:


> It really didn't matter what happened after the Omega/Danielson match and the Punk promo. Nothing could have followed up that match. Especially not MJF vs Pillman Jr.


Ummm…this is precisely why you have to go with Omega and Danielson in the Main Event. I literally said on Wednesday when word got out that Bryan and Omega were opening, “Way to bury Britt in the main event.”

Nothing AEW could do even has the potential to follow that match. Anyone with a simle understanding of wrestling knew that no one stood a chance after them. I specifically said you have to put that on last to allow the fans to breath and focus on it solely, because no matter what comes after it, the fans at home are going to lose attention.

And unless we believe fans actually turned off the channel for the last few minutes of Bryan and Omega, then we can assume that Punk’s promo even lost viewers if we seen a minute-by-minute breakdown.

Tony gotta learn…


----------



## Whoanma

bdon said:


> The Tribal Chief worships at the altar of HIS…God of Pro-Wrestling.


Acknowledge him.


----------



## bdon

Whoanma said:


> Acknowledge him.
> View attachment 109108
> 
> View attachment 109110
> View attachment 109109


No, The Tribal Chief wants us to acknowledge him…

…worshipping at the altar of HIS…God of Pro-wrestling!


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *This is what we're not going to do. Everyone wants to blame Reigns for declines and discredit him for any gains. Prior to the Tribal Chief era, Rollins was getting pushed way more than Reigns with significantly more TV time, and had much longer title reigns. If you want to blame one person, put it on him.
> 
> The truth is RAW's overall show quality has greatly diminished in the last two decades and fans just gave up on waiting for it to improve. As for Smackdown, they've consistently hovered around 2 mil or more for the last two years, so that's far more than can be said about RAW and its massive decline. With that said, it's definitely a win in the sense that AEW blew their entire load and still lost the demo, while all RAW needed was Roman.*


I find it hilarious how the same guy who obnoxiously gloats to everyone whenever any of his top favorites have a decent week with the ratings NOW wants to blame the quality of the shows now after seeing your Universal Champion receive an underwhelming rating 😂

It’s ALWAYS been about the stale/mediocre product itself that caused millions of viewers to tune out over the past several years. It was never about any individual talent “tanking” the ratings (which is also sad that you’re resorting to deflect by falsely blaming Seth Rollins here even though he NEVER held a word championship for OVER a year). 

However, nobody in that company is a big TV draw. This week’s episode of Raw just demonstrates that reality with that unspectacular number. 

For the record, Smackdown’s ratings isn’t anything special either.


----------



## RapShepard

What are folk predicting for Rampage? Can Hobbs vs Punk get it over a million?


----------



## yeahright2

RapShepard said:


> What are folk predicting for Rampage? Can Hobbs vs Punk get it over a million?











AEW Ratings prediction game


1.351 million for Grand Slam tonight. Was going to go Price is Right on 3venflow due to his track record, but Class beat me to it, so I'll take it a step further.




www.wrestlingforum.com





I´m guessing 800K


----------



## Not Lying

I think around 900K.

I can see them averaging 1m/ 1,05m if Punk/Hobbs kicks things off for the first hour, but it’ll decrease in the second to the 800s


----------



## holy

DammitChrist said:


> No, because the wrestling matches generally do better in the ratings than promo-heavy segments do.
> 
> This company strongly features the wrestling (as they should), and their audience enjoys seeing that more.


But that's the problem: ONLY THEIR AUDIENCE enjoys seeing wrestling more. It's not wrong at all to cater to their fanbase, but they have to think about creating new fans too. If they want to grow their audience, they need to start creating some fantastic storylines that get people talking, like how the NWO storyline took the wrestling world by the storm in the mid-90s. Otherwise, they will never grow their fanbase in a massive way. 

One of the highest-rated (viewership) segments in wrestling history was the "This is your life" segment with Rock/Foley. 

Similarly, I don't think anyone tuned into Taker vs Austin on Raw expecting some 5-star classic. It drew a monstrous viewership rating because of the storyline involved.


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> I think around 900K.
> 
> I can see them averaging 1m/ 1,05m if Punk/Hobbs kicks things off for the first hour, but it’ll decrease in the second to the 800s


It'll be a big moment for Punk to flex for sure. It he can pop a rating with Hobbs how can he not get praise


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

They aren't touching a million for Rampage again unless they get a huge debut. Punk's debut segment shattered that, but that overall show eventually dropped for the final two quarters to just over a million. On a one hour show. If they had gone two hours there, I can't see the second hour quarters maintaining that.

Rampage this week I think has a chance of getting 900k IF Punk's match with Hobbs does exceptionally well even for Punk... but it would need to do like a million+ to offset the latter part of the show. I don't know that I see that. I think something like high 800K-900K for Punk's match with Hobbs is a realistic high estimate. Basically about 150-200K more than what the highest segment of a Rampage usually does. If it can score that, that would be great. If they're in line with the average low-mid 700K the first quarter of Rampage usually gets, then that's not good.


----------



## Not Lying

Black vs Cody having more views than Sting/Darby and Punk's promo is quite shocking to me, but good for them. 
I hope they continue to push Black strong.


----------



## drougfree

750k


----------



## Aedubya

.740


----------



## ShadowCounter

A million viewers? It's Friday night and the show ran until Saturday morning. Get serious.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*I think it does 750k ish overall. Punk's drawing power massively declined after week 1.*


----------



## yeahright2

..Soo.. We´re not gonna discuss how TK gave away over 2000 tickets for Grand Slam?


----------



## Erik.

700k for Rampage, I reckon. 

And that'd be a good number.


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> It is the top promotion in terms of quality and ratings don't reflect that *yet and it's impressive it's getting closer year by year.That's reality.*


And again that is totally your right to feel and say that, but you then can't turn around and cry foul if somebody points out the metrics don't support your assertion. Consistency is key. Objective things can't be in a state of "mattering" or "not mattering" depending on whether they put AEW in a positive light.


----------



## RapShepard

yeahright2 said:


> ..Soo.. We´re not gonna discuss how TK gave away over 2000 tickets for Grand Slam?


1. Where you get that info from?

2. It's not really a big deal to me comped tickets have always been a thing. 20k or 18k they sold amazingly.


----------



## Not Lying

RapShepard said:


> And again that is totally your right to feel and say that, but you then can't turn around and cry foul if somebody points out the metrics don't support your assertion. Consistency is key. Objective things can't be in a state of "mattering" or "not mattering" depending on whether they put AEW in a positive light.


Well time will prove me right. I can see the writing ln the wall 😊
If we want to look at past examples, TNA never cane close, it took WCW half a decade. WWE’s been the only one around 20 years and they should be doing better, by far. 

The objective thing for WWE to look at is how the RAW main event dropped 200K and that was a huge 3-way main event between the 2 world champs and former 6month reigning dominant Lashley. But nah, instead of solving the inner WWE problems, enjoy a measly 0.01 demo win over a 2 year old company 😉


----------



## 3venflow

Per the PW Torch, Omega vs. Danielson started at 1.13m viewers and peaked above 1.5m viewers for the finish.


----------



## yeahright2

RapShepard said:


> 1. Where you get that info from?
> 
> 2. It's not really a big deal to me comped tickets have always been a thing. 20k or 18k they sold amazingly.


1) What Was AEW’s Live Gate For AEW Dynamite ‘Grand Slam’?

2) Yeah, they still sold well. It´s just bad business when they could have sold those 2000 tickets to paying fans.. And a very WCW-like thing to do, comping tickets. I believe Jim Crockett Promotions comped something like 40 tickets to StarrCade (I remember JC saying it in one of his podcasts, and since he´s obsessed with live gate and attendance numbers, I believe it)


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> Well time will prove me right. I can see the writing ln the wall
> If we want to look at past examples, TNA never cane close, it took WCW half a decade. WWE’s been the only one around 20 years and they should be doing better, by far.
> 
> The objective thing for WWE to look at is how the RAW main event dropped 200K and that was a huge 3-way main event between the 2 world champs and former 6month reigning dominant Lashley. But nah, instead of solving the inner WWE problems, enjoy a measly 0.01 demo win over a 2 year old company


Can't pull that with me, I haven't said anything negative about their rating for Grand slam nor have I gloated about the Raw rating. Hell I actually pointed out that starting with the most anticipated match probably lost them points.


----------



## DaSlacker

AEW is doing slightly better viewership numbers on TNT in September 2021 than Impact was in the same slot on a Wednesday night in September 2014 on Spike TV. It's not far away from what Impact had in September 2012 and 2013 (Thursday night). From a same month standpoint, un 10 years the main prime time alternative to WWE has decreased in viewership by 26%.

Obviously they've signed a lot of talent. But they've been very reserved in terms of swerves, gimmick matches and hotshotting the titles. Often it's been long singles and tag matches involving low and midcard. They have a mountain of potential singles matches and wrestlers bubbling along, developing their own little following.

Meanwhile, WWE Raw (same Monday slot) has fallen from 3.9 million viewers to 1.8 million (September 2014 to September 2021). A decrease of 54% in 7 years.

They will be neck and neck by 2028. In terms of viewership anyway...


----------



## Not Lying

RapShepard said:


> Can't pull that with me, I haven't said anything negative about their rating for Grand slam nor have I gloated about the Raw rating. Hell I actually pointed out that starting with the most anticipated match probably lost them points.


Dude. I'm talking in general, WWE RAW is declining in viewership, and they should be focused on that, AEW is growing, and quite fast, and they should continue to that. With that said, one company is pleasing its audience, the other isn't. It is 100% fact to say the main reason RAW beats AEW now in viewership is because of their longevity and brand, which only time can give AEW.


----------



## JTB33b

I look at WWE like NCIS it has been horrible for years but still gets better ratings than the newer and much better shows because it has been around forever.


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> Dude. I'm talking in general, WWE RAW is declining in viewership, and they should be focused on that, AEW is growing, and quite fast, and they should continue to that. With that said, one company is pleasing its audience, the other isn't. It is 100% fact to say the main reason RAW beats AEW now in viewership is because of their longevity and brand, which only time can give AEW.


Why can't it be a 100% fact that Raw does better viewership and ratings simply because people rather watch it?


----------



## Not Lying

RapShepard said:


> Why can't it be a 100% fact that Raw does better viewership and ratings simply because people rather watch it?


because of the reasons I've already said, RAW keeps bleeding viewers, AEW is rising, so the fans watching AEW are sticking around to it and liking it, RAW's ain't. It's complete bullshit for you to say "more people rather watch RAW", When a show has been on TV for 30 years and by far the majority of its viewers are over 50, brand recognition plays a more important role. It's more "more people know about RAW, more people care for RAW because they've been watching it for decades (demo  ), more people are brainwashed by the brand of RAW" than people would rather watch RAW because again, only time will give AEW this awareness, but it's a fact they have the better product and talent, and no matter how people spin it is quite shocking everything they have accomplished so quickly.


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> because of the reasons I've already said, RAW keeps bleeding viewers, AEW is rising, so the fans watching AEW are sticking around to it and liking it, RAW's ain't. It's complete bullshit for you to say "more people rather watch RAW", When a show has been on TV for 30 years and by far the majority of its viewers are over 50, brand recognition plays a more important role. *It's more "more people know about RAW, more people care for RAW because they've been watching it for decades* (demo  ), more people are brainwashed by the brand of RAW" than people would rather watch RAW because again, only time will give AEW this awareness, but it's a fact they have the better product and talent, and no matter how people spin it is quite shocking everything they have accomplished so quickly.


Raw is losing viewership, yet still being watched more overall and in the demo. So yeah it's a fact to say more people rather watch Raw than watch Dynamite. Dynamite is certainly doing well, but given what it has in a billionaire owner that isn't afraid to spend, a primetime spot on TNT, Bryan, Punk, Jericho, Mox, and The Elite, yeah they should be doing about what they're doing. I mean seriously why get stars like Punk, Bryan, Mox, and Jericho if they don't have the power to bring recognition to AEW.


----------



## Not Lying

RapShepard said:


> Raw is losing viewership, yet still being watched more overall and in the demo. So yeah it's a fact to say more people rather watch Raw than watch Dynamite. Dynamite is certainly doing well, but given what it has in a billionaire owner that isn't afraid to spend, a primetime spot on TNT, Bryan, Punk, Jericho, Mox, and The Elite, yeah they should be doing about what they're doing. I mean seriously why get stars like Punk, Bryan, Mox, and Jericho if they don't have the power to bring recognition to AEW.


The demo as a % from AEW's total viewership is much bigger RAW (which is actually what TK meant when he says the audience is the youngest skewing in sports) and in total number is getting close to it and beating it now ALREADY, if you want to be a stubborn wall who is wrong you can be, but no it is not fact to say "rather watch" and completely ignore everything i told that has to do with brand recognition which is the only thing you they have over AEW now.
It's not the only reason you bring inn those stars, those stars happened to be some of the best talent of the past 15 years, what Punk can do hasn't even scratched the surface, these guys aren't just coming in and bringing in whatever dedicated fanbase for them, but on the longterm they are improving AEW's image/brand because of the quality of their work.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

It feels like some people expected them to explode to average 1.3-1.5 million viewers almost immediately after Punk and Bryan debuted.

Should this week’s Dynamite have gotten in that range? Yes, but generally they’re increasing their average while Raw and Smackdown are decreasing. Even someone like Roman on Raw doesn’t help that from the one episode he was on this week (although being fair it was only one episode).

It was extremely unlikely Punk and Bryan debuting was going to lead to some big viewership increase regularly. Both respectively popped huge viewership for their respective debuts, and have helped the average increase. In Punk’s case it was far and away the highest watched Rampage, and his Dynamite debut was the 3rd(?) most watched Dynamite until these last few weeks. In Bryan’s case his Dynamite debut and match debut did huge numbers for those quarters, as well as being 2nd and 3rd most viewed Dynamite episodes.

When Dynamite starts dipping back down to where it was pre-Punk for no-special episodes, then that’s a concern. They still have momentum though and although not on the level of Punk or Bryan debut, they do have an Adam Page return in their back pocket, as well as a Wyatt debut. They’ve still got strong momentum at this time. Nothing really points to otherwise yet except with regards to the Rampage brand.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> ..Soo.. We´re not gonna discuss how TK gave away over 2000 tickets for Grand Slam?


sure you can discuss it

mostly the suites, right? To get them to 20,111 or something


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> The demo as a % from AEW's total viewership is much bigger RAW (which is actually what TK meant when he says the audience is the youngest skewing in sports) and in total number is getting close to it and beating it now ALREADY, *if you want to be a stubborn* wall who is wrong you can be, but no it is not fact to say "rather watch" and completely ignore everything i told that has to do with brand recognition which is the only thing you they have over AEW now.
> It's not the only reason you bring inn those stars, those stars happened to be some of the best talent of the past 15 years, what Punk can do hasn't even scratched the surface, these guys aren't just coming in and bringing in whatever dedicated fanbase for them, but on the longterm they are improving AEW's image/brand because of the quality of their work.


No, being stubborn is being unable to admit that as of now more people would rather watch Dynamite be it overall or in the demo. That doesn't mean AEW sucks or doesn't have a lot going for them. It just means as of now more people overall and in the demo still prefer to watch Raw. You want to wave it off as longevity, but longevity and name recognition didn't stop Impact from falling as far as it is. Longevity and name recognition hasn't helped ROH be anything but a distant competitor it's entire existence. AEW certainly didn't have trouble blowing past them in importance, viewership, and demo.


----------



## RapShepard

yeahright2 said:


> 1) What Was AEW’s Live Gate For AEW Dynamite ‘Grand Slam’?
> 
> 2) Yeah, they still sold well. It´s just bad business when they could have sold those 2000 tickets to paying fans.. And a very WCW-like thing to do, comping tickets. I believe Jim Crockett Promotions comped something like 40 tickets to StarrCade (I remember JC saying it in one of his podcasts, and since he´s obsessed with live gate and attendance numbers, I believe it)


Thanks for the link, and yeah they probably could've sold them. But the comp was likely good PR, especially if some people that weren't diehard fans got them. Sometimes being in a room full of enthusiastic fans can really be infectious and change your mind on something. I know I wasn't a big fan of old Kanye, until I went to the Saint Pablo tour on my friends dime and man I had great time. Was even enjoying the old music because the crowd was so infectious lol.


----------



## Not Lying

RapShepard said:


> No, being stubborn is being unable to admit that as of now more people would rather watch Dynamite be it overall or in the demo. That doesn't mean AEW sucks or doesn't have a lot going for them. It just means as of now more people overall and in the demo still prefer to watch Raw. You want to wave it off as longevity, but longevity and name recognition didn't stop Impact from falling as far as it is. Longevity and name recognition hasn't helped ROH be anything but a distant competitor it's entire existence. AEW certainly didn't have trouble blowing past them in importance, viewership, and demo.


Because Impact and ROH aren’t on the right track, but TK is actually smart and knows what he’s doing. 
Had TNA not hot shotted and did dumb shit in 2010 they were on the right track, but it was all over for then with no chance of making a comeback by mid 2011. 

AEW is on a better growth than TNA 2005-2009 and don’t look to be making those same mistakes, and the fact rhey have gotten a few over on RAW is impressive, a lot. 

And no, it doesn’t mean they “prefer”, it means they watch, and they’re watching less and less and tuning out of big main events because they’re not at all liking what’s going on, and because of the brand recognition and loyalty thing I’m telling you about, the bleeding out happens and it’s happening at different speeds


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> Because Impact and ROH aren’t on the right track, but TK is actually smart and knows what he’s doing.
> Had TNA not hot shotted and did dumb shit in 2010 they were on the right track, but it was all over for then with no chance of making a comeback by mid 2011.
> 
> AEW is on a better growth than TNA 2005-2009 and don’t look to be making those same mistakes, and the fact rhey have gotten a few over on RAW is impressive, a lot.
> 
> And no, it doesn’t mean they “prefer”, it means they watch, and they’re watching less and less and tuning out of big main events because they’re not at all liking what’s going on, and because of the brand recognition and loyalty thing I’m telling you about, the bleeding out happens and it’s happening at different speeds


Yes AEW is impressive, but if more people got to Gas Station A than Gas Station B, then Gas Station A is more preferred. 

Really all AEW is missing a must see storyline that gets folk talking and feeling the need to watch ever week. They need their nWo, emerging of Austin, or rise of Cena and Batista and they'll be set to where things like last week happen more often. Its just finding that story is hard or hell them and a million other promotions would've done it by now.


----------



## RollinsHardyStyles

The Legit DMD said:


> *This is what we're not going to do. Everyone wants to blame Reigns for declines and discredit him for any gains. Prior to the Tribal Chief era, Rollins was getting pushed way more than Reigns with significantly more TV time, and had much longer title reigns. If you want to blame one person, put it on him.
> 
> The truth is RAW's overall show quality has greatly diminished in the last two decades and fans just gave up on waiting for it to improve. As for Smackdown, they've consistently hovered around 2 mil or more for the last two years, so that's far more than can be said about RAW and its massive decline. With that said, it's definitely a win in the sense that AEW blew their entire load and still lost the demo, while all RAW needed was Roman.*


Lol, I was not trying to blame Reigns for the ratings decline but I can see why it came off that way. My point was that given their investment in Reigns, there shouldn't even be a question whether they would beat any other wrestling show in the key demo when they put him on. Their #1 top full-time star popping a marginally better rating than the #2 company should be concerning to WWE even if they win in the ratings imo. And as I've said before, I am somewhat disappointed in that Dynamite number, I was expecting for mid-to-high 1.3m and hoping for them to beat their debut show for overall viewership, though they were never gonna touch the .68 key demo that the debut show did. But regardless of the numbers, I don't think this is cause for celebration for WWE beyond just being glad that Dynamite beating RAW in the key demo became a trend.

Regarding the declining ratings, I don't care who you want to blame. I enjoy both Reigns' and Rollins' work. I would certainly blame the company for being so out of touch with their fanbase.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW has bumped capacity for the Long Island show at the UBS Arena due to strong ticket sales. Now 9,400+ seats opened with around 6,800 sold. RAW, which runs in the same facility a week earlier, has sold about 2,800.

Next week's Dynamite is close to 6,500 sold with 1,500 available mostly in the upper deck.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

* Britt is amazing for retaining that many viewers for a main event. There's usually a significant drop here.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1441228816064471046*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> * Britt is amazing for retaining that many viewers for a main event. There's usually a significant drop here.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1441228816064471046*


drop in 18-49 though

which is kinda weird TBH, thought she would appeal more to younger audience

Roman or Baker for ratings Legit? Choose your fav


----------



## rbl85

The Legit DMD said:


> * Britt is amazing for retaining that many viewers for a main event. There's usually a significant drop here.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1441228816064471046*


Lol usually main events actually gain viewers XD


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> drop in 18-49 though
> 
> *which is kinda weird TBH, thought she would appeal more to younger audience*
> 
> Roman or Baker for ratings Legit? Choose your fav


Since the start of AEW (it's the same for WWE) women matches mainly attract 50+ viewers but lose quite a lot in 18-49.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Britt did well in overall viewership, but it's not "amazing" what she did either. Just to review since we started getting quarterly numbers for Dynamite:

7/14 - 1K drop (Darby/Ethan Page)
7/21 - 44K gain (Moxley/Archer)
7/28 - 93K gain (Jericho/Gage)
8/4 - 75K gain (Rhodes/Black 1)
8/11 - 60K gain (Jericho/Wardlow)
8/18 - 44K loss (Jericho/MJF)
8/25 - 42K loss (Black/Brock Anderson)
9/1 - 4K loss (Bucks and Good Bros vs. Lucha Bros and Jurassic Express+Post Match with Omega and Christian)
9/8 - 155K loss (Moxley/Suzuki)
9/15 - 34K loss (Moxley and Kingston vs. 2.0)
9/22 - 4K loss (Baker/Soho)

8/4, 8/18, 8/25, 9/15 are the only episodes that had less viewers in the main event quarter than the opening quarter.

There are different ways to view these. Mox/Suzuki was a significant loss, but was also 15K above the opener and a top 4 quarter of the night. The 2nd biggest gain Q7 to Q8 was Rhodes/Black, but it was also 124K below the opening quarter same show.

Those aren't the only things to look at, but Baker/Soho this week was pretty much in the middle. Not bad, and I'd say it did well since the show started strong, but "amazing" would have been pulling the quarter up back into the 1.3 million range.

Edit: Also, yeah most of the time the main event loses viewers from Q7. However from Q1 compared to Q8, main event is usually higher (my count is 6 gains vs. 5 losses).


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> Since the start of AEW (it's the same for WWE) women matches mainly attract 50+ viewers but lose quite a lot in 18-49.


i’ve never noticed - will look out for it next time

i think we can guess why over 50+ males likes a good women’s match  🍑🍑😅


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Britt did well in overall viewership, but it's not "amazing" what she did either. Just to review since we started getting quarterly numbers for Dynamite:
> 
> 7/14 - 1K drop (Darby/Ethan Page)
> 7/21 - 44K gain (Moxley/Archer)
> 7/28 - 93K gain (Jericho/Gage)
> 8/4 - 75K gain (Rhodes/Black 1)
> 8/11 - 60K gain (Jericho/Wardlow)
> 8/18 - 44K loss (Jericho/MJF)
> 8/25 - 42K loss (Black/Brock Anderson)
> 9/1 - 4K loss (Bucks and Good Bros vs. Lucha Bros and Jurassic Express+Post Match with Omega and Christian)
> 9/8 - 155K loss (Moxley/Suzuki)
> 9/15 - 34K loss (Moxley and Kingston vs. 2.0)
> 9/22 - 4K loss (Baker/Soho)
> 
> 8/4, 8/18, 8/25, 9/15 are the only episodes that had less viewers in the main event quarter than the opening quarter.
> 
> There are different ways to view these. Mox/Suzuki was a significant loss, but was also 15K above the opener and a top 4 quarter of the night. The 2nd biggest gain Q7 to Q8 was Rhodes/Black, but it was also 124K below the opening quarter same show.
> 
> Those aren't the only things to look at, but Baker/Soho this week was pretty much in the middle. Not bad, and I'd say it did well since the show started strong, but "amazing" would have been pulling the quarter up back into the 1.3 million range.
> 
> Edit: Also, yeah most of the time the main event loses viewers from Q7. However from Q1 compared to Q8, main event is usually higher (my count is 6 gains vs. 5 losses).


*Look at the losses though. When the main event loses viewers, it consistently tanks. Only losing 4k after all the top male draws performed is definitely something to be proud of.*


----------



## RollinsHardyStyles

I find that second hour graph weird in general. The hold over the second hour in terms of general viewership seems quite impressive, but the steady drop in 18-49 seems odd. I wonder if something else was on in the second hour that continuously lured the key demo away.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The Legit DMD said:


> *Look at the losses though. When the main event loses viewers, it consistently tanks. Only losing 4k after all the top male draws performed is definitely something to be proud of.*


What do you mean by tanking? I wouldn't describe losing 40-50k viewers on a 1 million+ episode as "tanking" at all unless it ends up being the lowest quarter. If it loses viewers but still strong in relation to the show, I don't think I'd call that tanking, which is what most of those were (of the ones that lost viewers). Black/Anderson 8/25 tanked, I'd agree (and I really like Black in AEW right now). Decent loss and lowest number of viewers for the night. I think all the others were fine. The main event usually has some redeeming points in relation to the rest of the show, even if it loses viewers from prior quarter.

Again, I agree Baker/Soho did well for them, but it's just not anything I'd call exceptional. It was pretty good. In overall viewership which is what I think matters most. Demo though, if that's your thing, I wouldn't be praising Baker/Soho. They did poorly there.


----------



## rbl85

The Legit DMD said:


> *Look at the losses though. When the main event loses viewers, it consistently tanks. Only losing 4k after all the top male draws performed is definitely something to be proud of.*


Having the lowest demo is not something to be proud of


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> What do you mean by tanking? I wouldn't describe losing 40-50k viewers on a 1 million+ episode as "tanking" at all unless it ends up being the lowest quarter. If it loses viewers but still strong in relation to the show, I don't think I'd call that tanking, which is what most of those were (of the ones that lost viewers). Black/Anderson 8/25 tanked, I'd agree (and I really like Black in AEW right now). Decent loss and lowest number of viewers for the night. I think all the others were fine. The main event usually has some redeeming points in relation to the rest of the show, even if it loses viewers from prior quarter.
> 
> Again, I agree Baker/Soho did well for them, but it's just not anything I'd call exceptional. It was pretty good. In overall viewership which is what I think matters most. Demo though, if that's your thing, I wouldn't be praising Baker/Soho. They did poorly there.


*In my eyes, if you have 1/10th of the usual loss, you're doing damn good job, and I'm with you on overall viewership over "THE DEMO."*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The Legit DMD said:


> *In my eyes, if you have 1/10th of the usual loss, you're doing damn good job, and I'm with you on overall viewership over "THE DEMO."*


I gotcha. If that's all you look for, then fair enough. At least we'll come out of this agreeing on overall viewership>demo.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> * Britt is amazing for retaining that many viewers for a main event. There's usually a significant drop here.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1441228816064471046*


You're just going to conveniently ignore the likes of Bryan Danielson, Kenny Omega, CM Punk, Malakai Black, and Cody Rhodes having a pretty good week with the ratings here?

That's a rhetorical question btw.

I'm not even surprised.

Edit:

Of course, the demographic numbers "don't matter at all" here (which they do btw) when your top favorite had the lowest this week 😂

For the record, I LOVE Britt Baker too; so I'm not even roasting her here for this.


----------



## rbl85

DammitChrist said:


> You're just going to conveniently ignore the likes of Bryan Danielson, Kenny Omega, CM Punk, Malakai Black, and Cody Rhodes having a pretty good week with the ratings here?
> 
> That's a rhetorical question btw.
> 
> I'm not even surprised.


Hard to admit that Cody outdraw Baker


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> Hard to admit that Cody outdraw Baker


that’s the problem with the ‘all-in on one wrestler‘ posters - you feel good when their faves do shit and wanna give them stick, but at the same time, we all like Baker too 😂 😂


----------



## omaroo

Due to the death time slot and being 2 hours you would think anywhere between 700k-800k would be a good rating for Rampage.


----------



## DammitChrist

LifeInCattleClass said:


> that’s the problem with the ‘all-in on one wrestler‘ posters - you feel good when their faves do shit and wanna give them stick, but at the same time, we all like Baker too 😂 😂


Yea, I HATE that I’m hesitant to give Britt Baker credit with the ratings (since she DOES consistently do well too) but man, it’s not nearly as satisfying with all the gloating that we must sit through here. 

Britt is quickly creeping up to be higher up in my all-time female favorites too


----------



## Vitamin R

> They will be neck and neck by 2028. In terms of viewership anyway...


More like 2024-2025. Raw was still getting 3 million viewers in 2018. Than the McMahons did that BS "fans are the Authority" promo. Raw has been losing large chunks of their viewership every year ever since. Going as low as 1.4 million viewers this year.


----------



## Not Lying

RapShepard said:


> Yes AEW is impressive, but if more people got to Gas Station A than Gas Station B, then Gas Station A is more preferred.
> 
> Really all AEW is missing a must see storyline that gets folk talking and feeling the need to watch ever week. They need their nWo, emerging of Austin, or rise of Cena and Batista and they'll be set to where things like last week happen more often. Its just finding that story is hard or hell them and a million other promotions would've done it by now.


No. You are wrong. I will give you a much better example.

Gas Station A is owned by a publicly traded energy company that's been in the business for decades and has monopolized the market for 20 years. Not everyone who uses it is satisfied and it's getting less and less customers year on year. Most of its user are boomers who've been using it for decades and are used to it. 

Gas Station B is a new start-up using better more sustainable products, within 2 years it starts attracting customers in huge numbers especially noticing that younger folks are just as interested in it as older ones. In only 2 years. Trends continue, and A is losing customers from dissatisfaction while B is gaining, who's users are more satisfied? 

legit lol that you think brand awareness and longevity have nothing to do with the ratings you see, you are 1000% wrong. 

" Its just finding that story is hard or hell them *and a million other promotions would've done it by now.*"

Yeah sure.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Guarantee TK cares about demo more than 50+ viewers, so the drop Ruby/Brit had in the key demo will mean they won’t ever close the show again.

In fact, if you’re going to blame any act for Dynamite losing the demo to Raw this week, it’s Brit/Ruby. If they’d run the MOTY/Masvidal/Jericho angle in that spot and Dynamite ended with there, I have no doubt the demo would be much much higher.

Brit is a demo draw when she’s on the mic or doing a hardcore match with Rosa. She’s not a demo draw doing a regular match bc women’s wrestling doesn’t draw period


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> The demographic numbers matter too. You need to wake up.


Demographic matters to advertisers but something we never take into account on this forum is that AEW is probably one of the least attractive audiences to promote to. I've brought it all up before but 50k a year for those 25 or over, 0-20k a year for those under 25, guys smelling out nearby women with their body odour, Korean BBQ farts, elitist fans etc.

Take a look at this video, it just isn't an attractive audience to promote to:






So if the audience is unattractive to promote to how important could the demo really be? Sure, it might get some advertisers interested but when they find out that wrestling fans make minimal money, are nerdy as fuck and are generally seen as a band of social misfits getting together it makes them much less interested.



the_flock said:


> Next week when Husky Harris debuts and they get a short ratings boost, it will be the same shit over again.
> 
> The problem is there are only so many guys they can wheel out until they stop popping a short rating.


Fuck yeah, Husky Harris.

I'd say after Bray and maybe Strowman if they sign him that'll be it for the temporary boosts. Then AEW will need to actually kill it show quality wise.



yeahright2 said:


> ..Soo.. We´re not gonna discuss how TK gave away over 2000 tickets for Grand Slam?


Oof.




RapShepard said:


> Really all AEW is missing a must see storyline that gets folk talking and feeling the need to watch ever week. They need their nWo, emerging of Austin, or rise of Cena and Batista and they'll be set to where things like last week happen more often. Its just finding that story is hard or hell them and a million other promotions would've done it by now.


That won't happen because nobody is really emotionally invested in the situation except a million people. The nWo and those other stories worked because they were emotionally invested in those guys.

AEW doesn't know how to build emotional investment. Without that you have nothing except surprises and big matches.


----------



## sim8

Chip Chipperson said:


> Demographic matters to advertisers but something we never take into account on this forum is that AEW is probably one of the least attractive audiences to promote to. I've brought it all up before but 50k a year for those 25 or over, 0-20k a year for those under 25, guys smelling out nearby women with their body odour, Korean BBQ farts, elitist fans etc.
> 
> Take a look at this video, it just isn't an attractive audience to promote to:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if the audience is unattractive to promote to how important could the demo really be? Sure, it might get some advertisers interested but when they find out that wrestling fans make minimal money, are nerdy as fuck and are generally seen as a band of social misfits getting together it makes them much less interested.
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck yeah, Husky Harris.
> 
> I'd say after Bray and maybe Strowman if they sign him that'll be it for the temporary boosts. Then AEW will need to actually kill it show quality wise.
> 
> 
> 
> Oof.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That won't happen because nobody is really emotionally invested in the situation except a million people. The nWo and those other stories worked because they were emotionally invested in those guys.
> 
> AEW doesn't know how to build emotional investment. Without that you have nothing except surprises and big matches.


The fact people are demanding Hangman wins the belt despite the obvious business deicison of putting it on Bryan shows they are emotionally invested.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

sim8 said:


> The fact people are demanding Hangman wins the belt despite the obvious business deicison of putting it on Bryan shows they are emotionally invested.


I mean a large mainstream audience aren't emotionally invested. A million people are invested but it's the same million who were invested 2 years ago.


----------



## DaSlacker

Chip Chipperson said:


> I mean a large mainstream audience aren't emotionally invested. A million people are invested but it's the same million who were invested 2 years ago.


A million live on TNT. Who knows the exact figure it you factor in DVR, alternative means, infrequent viewing, fans of specific wrestlers, casually checking it out via clips online. Plus the non American viewers who are like that too. 

The only time it was completely noticeable how mainstream wrestling was, was when Hogan vs Andre and Hogan vs Savage was hitting 33 million viewers and 20 million viewers, respectively. Or when Austin vs Undertaker was hitting 10 million in an unopposed overrun. Apart from that it has always had a fragmented following.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DaSlacker said:


> A million live on TNT. Who knows the exact figure it you factor in DVR, alternative means, infrequent viewing, fans of specific wrestlers, casually checking it out via clips online. Plus the non American viewers who are like that too.


Probably closer to 1.75 - 2.0 million if you factor that in, still not a huge audience.

I don't mean completely mainstream I mean attractive to the mainstream wrestling audience. Until AEW can attract the 5 year old that loves Kofi Kingston they won't truly be killing it in the wrestling world.


----------



## the_flock

Chip Chipperson said:


> Demographic matters to advertisers but something we never take into account on this forum is that AEW is probably one of the least attractive audiences to promote to. I've brought it all up before but 50k a year for those 25 or over, 0-20k a year for those under 25, guys smelling out nearby women with their body odour, Korean BBQ farts, elitist fans etc.
> 
> Take a look at this video, it just isn't an attractive audience to promote to:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if the audience is unattractive to promote to how important could the demo really be? Sure, it might get some advertisers interested but when they find out that wrestling fans make minimal money, are nerdy as fuck and are generally seen as a band of social misfits getting together it makes them much less interested.


This is why it's funny reading people going on about how important the demo is and how AEW are killing it, without actually understanding what it means. 

The biggest audience are those with disposable incomes. Aka the WWE audience.


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> No. You are wrong. I will give you a much better example.
> 
> Gas Station A is owned by a publicly traded energy company that's been in the business for decades and has monopolized the market for 20 years. Not everyone who uses it is satisfied and it's getting less and less customers year on year. Most of its user are boomers who've been using it for decades and are used to it.
> 
> Gas Station B is a new start-up using better more sustainable products, within 2 years it starts attracting customers in huge numbers especially noticing that younger folks are just as interested in it as older ones. In only 2 years. Trends continue, and A is losing customers from dissatisfaction while B is gaining, who's users are more satisfied?
> 
> legit lol that you think brand awareness and longevity have nothing to do with the ratings you see, you are 1000% wrong.
> 
> " Its just finding that story is hard or hell them *and a million other promotions would've done it by now.*"
> 
> Yeah sure.


If longevity and brand awareness were so important how was AEW able to surpass ROH and Impact from day one? You're only hanging your hat on longevity because it sounds better than just admitting as of now more people objectively prefer Raw than Dynamite. You can go on and on about how happy the AEW fan is and how young they are, but the reality is as of now Raw gets more viewers in the demo and in the overall viewership.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> I mean a large mainstream audience aren't emotionally invested. A million people are invested but it's the same million who were invested 2 years ago.


Bullshit @Chip Chipperson . That’s unfair. A year and a half to 2 years ago you were claiming they’d lost half of their audience. Now they’re just a hair under their all-time high rating.

Good, consistent booking will get them there.


----------



## Not Lying

RapShepard said:


> If longevity and brand awareness were so important how was AEW able to surpass ROH and Impact from day one? You're only hanging your hat on longevity because it sounds better than just admitting as of now more people objectively prefer Raw than Dynamite. You can go on and on about how happy the AEW fan is and how young they are, but the reality is as of now Raw gets more viewers in the demo and in the overall viewership.


Ok, so you do think longevity and brand awarness don't matter. What's your excuse gona be once AEW starts beating RAW? "well NOW they are putting on a better product?" . No. they;ve been doing it since day one, you've just been too short sighted to see it.

Your ROH and TNA examples mean shit because these 2 companie shad their peaks a long time ago while AEW is sstill growing, and they're even comparable because AEW's had the right TV and Money backing whch the other 2 didn't (nevermind the fact they are best fit for TV). 

Your problem is that genuinely believe this crap and that the "brand" has nothing to do with it, when it is the major advantage they hold.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> If longevity and brand awareness were so important how was AEW able to surpass ROH and Impact from day one? You're only hanging your hat on longevity because it sounds better than just admitting as of now more people objectively prefer Raw than Dynamite. You can go on and on about how happy the AEW fan is and how young they are, but the reality is as of now Raw gets more viewers in the demo and in the overall viewership.


I think you really overstate brand awareness if you’re claiming the US audience knows TNA and ROH. I had no clue Impact was still a thing until after AEW got a TNT deal, which is why it leapfrogged both so quickly: everyone over the age of 30 knows and remembers TNT as being the home of WCW.

With time, they can absolutely build more awareness via word of mouth and good, consistent storytelling.


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> Ok, so you do think longevity and brand awarness don't matter. What's your excuse gona be once AEW starts beating RAW? "well NOW they are putting on a better product?" . No. they;ve been doing it since day one, you've just been too short sighted to see it.
> 
> Your ROH and TNA examples mean shit because these 2 companie shad their peaks a long time ago while AEW is sstill growing, and they're even comparable because *AEW's had the right TV and Money backing whch the other 2 didn't (nevermind the fact they are best fit for TV).*
> 
> Your problem is that genuinely believe this crap and that the "brand" has nothing to do with it, when it is the major advantage they hold.


And this is why you can't keep beating the "brand awareness is the only reason they aren't beating Raw consistently". Like somehow you can acknowledge that AEW through money, a great TV deal, and star power stepped out the gate as number 2. Yet, when it comes to the number 1 spot, you can't just say "hey maybe despite all of that, some folk still prefer Raw over Dynamite as of this moment". 




bdon said:


> I think you really overstate brand awareness if you’re claiming the US audience knows TNA and ROH. I had no clue Impact was still a thing until after AEW got a TNT deal, which is why it leapfrogged both so quickly: everyone over the age of 30 knows and remembers TNT as being the home of WCW.
> 
> With time, they can absolutely build more awareness via word of mouth and good, consistent storytelling.


And I'd agree with you. They certainly have the star power. As I've said after this week's rating came in, all they really need is the must see story. But I don't think my reply above should be seen as controversial.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> And this is why you can't keep beating the "brand awareness is the only reason they aren't beating Raw consistently". Like somehow you can acknowledge that AEW through money, a great TV deal, and star power stepped out the gate as number 2. Yet, when it comes to the number 1 spot, you can't just say "hey maybe despite all of that, some folk still prefer Raw over Dynamite as of this moment".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I'd agree with you. They certainly have the star power. As I've said after this week's rating came in, all they really need is the must see story. But I don't think my reply above should be seen as controversial.


For the same reasons that Punk, Bryan, and others didn’t jump immediately, the same can and should be said about wrestling fans as a whole. More and more friends are asking me about AEW every month. I’m sure these same friends saw the many, MANY commercials for Dynamite over the last 2 years, but they refused to give it a chance, expecting it to get stomped out by Vince eventually, unwilling to invest in something that may not be around very long.

The growth began prior to Punk and Danielson rumors, and those two certainly helped speed the process. Longevity is definitely an issue, but it’s also not true that AEW should be immediately as known as WWE, which does put “brand awareness” as part of the story, too.

Not as big as the first, IMO.


----------



## DaSlacker

RapShepard said:


> And this is why you can't keep beating the "brand awareness is the only reason they aren't beating Raw consistently". Like somehow you can acknowledge that AEW through money, a great TV deal, and star power stepped out the gate as number 2. Yet, when it comes to the number 1 spot, you can't just say "hey maybe despite all of that, some folk still prefer Raw over Dynamite as of this moment".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I'd agree with you. They certainly have the star power. As I've said after this week's rating came in, all they really need is the must see story. But I don't think my reply above should be seen as controversial.


Average Joe could be subconsciously attached to watching wrestling on a Monday night. Or at least having it on in the background. It's been on at that time for decades. 

Even though we all (mostly all) heavily criticize it for being awful, it's a subjective thing. Plus, it still has lineage - unlike other shows that have been cancelled or rebooted, WWE has been going all the time. What is on now can be traced back to childhood favourites like Andre, Hogan, Hart, Austin, Rock, Cena. 

Sometimes it's hard to just walk away from that and onto to something new. There's also SmackDown, so people get their fill of wrestling. AEW might be just like having too much to eat.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> For the same reasons that Punk, Bryan, and others didn’t jump immediately, the same can and should be said about wrestling fans as a whole. More and more friends are asking me about AEW every month. I’m sure these same friends saw the many, MANY commercials for Dynamite over the last 2 years, but they refused to give it a chance, expecting it to get stomped out by Vince eventually, unwilling to invest in something that may not be around very long.
> 
> The growth began prior to Punk and Danielson rumors, and those two certainly helped speed the process. Longevity is definitely an issue, but it’s also not true that AEW should be immediately as known as WWE, which does put “brand awareness” as part of the story, too.
> 
> Not as big as the first, IMO.


The thing is unless AEW put WWE out of business, WWE will always have bare minimum longevity over AEW. To me it's just when are they expected to compete with no outs? I mean they got a billionaire backing, a spot on TNT, Punk, Bryan, Moxley, Jericho, and The Elite. To me they have the pieces to compete. I don't think it's a failure if they don't beat Raw, because as I say every week they're doing fine in the ratings. 

But it does come off as a crutch when folk lean on Raw being older for why they didn't beat them. It's just a thing of of shouldn't the conversation be more on what AEW could do to draw more fans, versus the sort of self defeatist "well of course they're not going to beat it, they're young and Raw has been around". Because that's not really a out most shows on TV get.


----------



## RapShepard

DaSlacker said:


> Average Joe could be subconsciously attached to watching wrestling on a Monday night. Or at least having it on in the background. It's been on at that time for decades.
> 
> *Even though we all (mostly all) heavily criticize it for being awful, it's a subjective thing.* Plus, it still has lineage - unlike other shows that have been cancelled or rebooted, WWE has been going all the time. What is on now can be traced back to childhood favourites like Andre, Hogan, Hart, Austin, Rock, Cena.
> 
> Sometimes it's hard to just walk away from that and onto to something new. There's also SmackDown, so people get their fill of wrestling. AEW might be just like having too much to eat.


And that's the point maybe some folk just enjoy it. It shouldn't be a thing of "AEW gets it's ratings because it's a good show that wrestling fans enjoy" but for Raw "it's the worst show ever and it only gets that rating because longevity and brain washing and not knowing any better" lol. More folk liking to watch Raw doesn't mean AEW isn't also a well liked promotion.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> The thing is unless AEW put WWE out of business, WWE will always have bare minimum longevity over AEW. To me it's just when are they expected to compete with no outs? I mean they got a billionaire backing, a spot on TNT, Punk, Bryan, Moxley, Jericho, and The Elite. To me they have the pieces to compete. I don't think it's a failure if they don't beat Raw, because as I say every week they're doing fine in the ratings.
> 
> But it does come off as a crutch when folk lean on Raw being older for why they didn't beat them. It's just a thing of of shouldn't the conversation be more on what AEW could do to draw more fans, versus the sort of self defeatist "well of course they're not going to beat it, they're young and Raw has been around". Because that's not really a out most shows on TV get.


Dude, Jim Cornette of all people has said he could see them beating Raw in the next couple of months. They have been walking down Raw in the ratings for lot longer than Punk and Bryan rumors have existed, which means they were on the path, even if Bryan and Punk helped them speed up the journey. A hot angle could surely speed the process up even further, but you know that isn’t just something you decide to do.

If they keep on the path they’re on, WITH TIME, aka longevity, they will begin to truly compete.

As an aside, is the fact they’re beating Raw in the demo not proof enough for you to say they are now competing? I mean, prior to this week, they beat Raw in the demo 2 weeks in a row, and yet you still are asking “when do they compete with no outs?”


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Only thing I'll say is unless AEW beats their debut episode at some point and shows they can break that ceiling, they're not beating Raw anytime soon. Raw will fall to their level before anything, and I don't see Raw going down to the 1.1-1.3 million range for another couple years at least tbh, even on the low end. 

Will have a better idea when Football season is over and we see how far Raw sunk. 

Thing is I don't think AEW is just going to maintain the current viewership over the next year. Either they keep rising and break through the 1.4 million barrier and climb from there, or they'll drop back down to under a million. So really it might take longer if they don't show viewership growth.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> Dude, Jim Cornette of all people has said he could see them beating Raw in the next couple of months. They have been walking down Raw in the ratings for lot longer than Punk and Bryan rumors have existed, which means they were on the path, even if Bryan and Punk helped them speed up the journey. A hot angle could surely speed the process up even further, but you know that isn’t just something you decide to do.
> 
> If they keep on the path they’re on, WITH TIME, aka longevity, they will begin to truly compete.
> 
> As an aside, is the fact they’re beating Raw in the demo not proof enough for you to say they are now competing? I mean, prior to this week, they beat Raw in the demo 2 weeks in a row, and yet you still are asking “when do they compete with no outs?”


You're really making my point for me. They beat Raw 2 weeks in a row in the demo. So why are some going back to the "well you know Raw does have longevity and brand awareness and really nobody should be expecting them to compete" argument as a crutch? It can't be 

"Yeah best fuck company in the world we got the stars, a good tv deal, and a billionaire owner that cares about us the fans having a great product. Fans are waking up take that Vince". Weeks they win the demo 

But then

"Well actually they're a really young company and you can't really expect them to compete with Raw, even if AEW has a lot going for them" weeks they lose the demo


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> You're really making my point for me. They beat Raw 2 weeks in a row in the demo. So why are some going back to the "well you know Raw does have longevity and brand awareness and really nobody should be expecting them to compete" argument as a crutch? It can't be
> 
> "Yeah best fuck company in the world we got the stars, a good tv deal, and a billionaire owner that cares about us the fans having a great product. Fans are waking up take that Vince". Weeks they win the demo
> 
> But then
> 
> "Well actually they're a really young company and you can't really expect them to compete with Raw, even if AEW has a lot going for them" weeks they lose the demo


Yes, you can say that, because watching AEW weekly is not a tradition. I just said that more and more friends of mine are asking about AEW. That doesn’t lend itself to immediately becoming weekly watchers. All that says is that the word of mouth about a hot “new” show is spreading vs WWE being as universally a part of American popcultural lexicon as Disney on Ice.

Some weeks they’re going to be compete more than others, even winning some weeks. Others fans are going to forget what time it is on television, because they haven’t created that weekly routine with everyone yet (longevity) AND the word of mouth is not fully spread (brand awareness).

With time, consistent storytelling, and good booking, competing weekly will occur.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> Yes, you can say that, because watching AEW weekly is not a tradition. I just said that more and more friends of mine are asking about AEW. That doesn’t lend itself to immediately becoming weekly watchers. All that says is that the word of mouth about a hot “new” show is spreading vs WWE being as universally a part of American popcultural lexicon as Disney on Ice.
> 
> Some weeks they’re going to be compete more than others, even winning some weeks. Others fans are going to forget what time it is on television, because they haven’t created that weekly routine with everyone yet (longevity) AND the word of mouth is not fully spread (brand awareness).
> 
> *With time, consistent storytelling, and good booking, competing weekly will occur.*


The last part I totally agree with. The rest is just an excuse to avoid saying "hey maybe folk preferred to watch Raw this week". I mean seriously some weeks fans are going to forget to watch, that makes sense when they get moved, not in their normal time zone.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> The last part I totally agree with. The rest is just an excuse to avoid saying "hey maybe folk preferred to watch Raw this week". I mean seriously some weeks fans are going to forget to watch, that makes sense when they get moved, not in their normal time zone.


Omfg man. People who are JUST NOW hearing of AEW via the word of mouth, aka the friends who are now asking about AEW, don’t have AEW’s “normal time zone” set in their biological clock as they would with Raw. For instance, my nephew asks me to remind him when Dynamite comes on every time I see him. Now I have other shit to do than to set a reminder for me to remind him to watch.

But you could easily ask my dad, who NEVER watched Raw or WWE, what time does Raw come on, and he’ll know instantly.

BRAND AWARENESS


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> Omfg man. People who are JUST NOW hearing of AEW via the word of mouth, aka the friends who are now asking about AEW, don’t have AEW’s “normal time zone” set in their biological clock as they would with Raw. For instance, my nephew asks me to remind him when Dynamite comes on every time I see him. Now I have other shit to do than to set a reminder for me to remind him to watch.
> 
> But you could easily ask my dad, who NEVER watched Raw or WWE, what time does Raw come on, and he’ll know instantly.
> 
> BRAND AWARENESS


Or maybe folk just chose not to watch? Why is that just being left out as a possibility lol. Maybe some folk just chose not to watch and maybe more folk just prefer Raw more. Can that not possibly be a thing?


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Or maybe folk just chose not to watch? Why is that just being left out as a possibility lol. Maybe some folk just chose not to watch and maybe more folk just prefer Raw more. Can that not possibly be a thing?


Of course it is a possibility, but the more likely scenario is that many simply have not heard of AEW, given AEW a chance yet, or haven’t made “Wednesday at 8ET on TNT” a part of their biological, American clocks.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> Of course it is a possibility, but the more likely scenario is that many simply have not heard of AEW, given AEW a chance yet, or haven’t made “Wednesday at 8ET on TNT” a part of their biological, American clocks.


The 2nd one is one I can see, but the 1st and 3rd I don't. Like I don't see how you can be one of the people so taped into Raw you're apart of the consistent 1.7ish million that watch weekly and haven't heard about AEW. Though I can definitely see some being unwilling to give them a shot out of ridiculous brand loyalty. Like your nephew though sounds like more of the casual fan (fans WWE and AEW both need to be aiming at) that can enjoy wrestling, but haven't made it a focal point of their entertainment if you get what I mean.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> The 2nd one is one I can see, but the 1st and 3rd I don't. Like I don't see how you can be one of the people so taped into Raw you're apart of the consistent 1.7ish million that watch weekly and haven't heard about AEW. Though I can definitely see some being unwilling to give them a shot out of ridiculous brand loyalty. Like your nephew though sounds like more of the casual fan (fans WWE and AEW both need to be aiming at) that can enjoy wrestling, but haven't made it a focal point of their entertainment if you get what I mean.


My nephew loved WWE, then he got bored of it when the pandemic hit.

Brand awareness has nothing to do with those 1.7m who tune in every week. Surely they know about AEW, but many refuse to give it a chance because of brand loyalty and assumptions that it will just fall to Vince like every other competitor of the last 40 years. That’s where longevity comes into play, that brand loyalty bullshit.

Brand awareness is about those casual fans like my friends who are asking if I watch AEW or if I’ve heard of AEW or what do I think of AEW. Those are fans who want to know more, are having that AEW conversation within earshot of their lives somehow, piquing their interest if for nothing more than to know what that conversation was about, and coming to me for answers, BECAUSE THEY DON’T LIVE IN THE WRESTLING BUBBLE AND HAVE NOT HEARD OF AEW.

If you choose to not watch WWE, it’s because you have grown up with that brand and know it isn’t for you. You’re now hearing of this “AEW” and all this crazy shit they are doing, and you begin to wonder, “Hmmm…” It doesn’t mean you immediately become one of the 2 million weekly watchers of wrestling, but it does mean you have a small part wondering what is the basis of this AEW thing. Is it different? Is it for me? Etc.

Slowly but surely, with consistently good storytelling and booking, that AEW conversation will seep into enough circles that “AEW” will not have to be something one has to ask what it is.

Longevity and Brand Awareness.

And on that note, I’m bowing out of this conversation, because you’re in one of your stubborn moods and seem hell bent on refusing to acknowledge that it is unlikely that even 10% of the US population knows what AEW is when I’d venture to say that greater than 50% of that population knows what the fuck a WWE is. Lol


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> My nephew loved WWE, then he got bored of it when the pandemic hit.
> 
> Brand awareness has nothing to do with those 1.7m who tune in every week. Surely they know about AEW, but many refuse to give it a chance because of brand loyalty and assumptions that it will just fall to Vince like every other competitor of the last 40 years. That’s where longevity comes into play, that brand loyalty bullshit.
> 
> Brand awareness is about those casual fans like my friends who are asking if I watch AEW or if I’ve heard of AEW or what do I think of AEW. Those are fans who want to know more, are having that AEW conversation within earshot of their lives somehow, piquing their interest if for nothing more than to know what that conversation was about, and coming to me for answers, BECAUSE THEY DON’T LIVE IN THE WRESTLING BUBBLE AND HAVE NOT HEARD OF AEW.
> 
> If you choose to not watch WWE, it’s because you have grown up with that brand and know it isn’t for you. You’re now hearing of this “AEW” and all this crazy shit they are doing, and you begin to wonder, “Hmmm…” It doesn’t mean you immediately become one of the 2 million weekly watchers of wrestling, but it does mean you have a small part wondering what is the basis of this AEW thing. Is it different? Is it for me? Etc.
> 
> Slowly but surely, with consistently good storytelling and booking, that AEW conversation will seep into enough circles that “AEW” will not have to be something one has to ask what it is.
> 
> Longevity and Brand Awareness.
> 
> And on that note, I’m bowing out of this conversation, because you’re in one of your stubborn moods and seem hell bent on refusing to acknowledge that it is unlikely that even 10% of the US population knows what AEW is when I’d venture to say that greater than 50% of that population knows what the fuck a WWE is. Lol


It's not about being stubborn, y'all just for some reason take it as a knock that I'm not giving a company with all AEW has going for it an out, because it's new. Cable every year sees new hit shows that take the world by storm. American Idol came out in 2002, The Voice came out in 2011, yet The Masked Singer which came out in 2019 is beating both shows in the demo. So yeah no the "AEW is new, you can't expect it to compete" shit is just an excuse AEW > WWE fans throw out because otherwise they'd have to admit more folk want to watch Raw at the moment.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> It's not about being stubborn, y'all just for some reason take it as a knock that I'm not giving a company with all AEW has going for it an out, because it's new. Cable every year sees new hit shows that take the world by storm. American Idol came out in 2002, The Voice came out in 2011, yet The Masked Singer which came out in 2019 is beating both shows in the demo. So yeah no the "AEW is new, you can't expect it to compete" shit is just an excuse AEW > WWE fans throw out because otherwise they'd have to admit more folk want to watch Raw at the moment.


Cowboy shows don’t exist anymore. Are we incapable of writing a good western?

Everyone can relate to music, so that is a fucking stupid comparison. Music is an every day part of life. 300+ million US citizens know what music is. Nearly 8 billion people on this planet know what music is.

Venturing to guess that 50% of the US population (150 million) knows what WWE is and only 2 million choosing to watch it vs let’s be super fucking generous and say 20 million people (which is more than the fucking totality of people watching the Monday Night Wars live, but I digress) know what AEW is, and for rounding of numbers we’ll say they are only getting just 1 million to choose to watch it.

That’s a 5% success rate of keeping eyes out of the people that know it exists vs the 1.3% that actively choose to staying watching WWE.

Brand awareness, man. 150+ million people vs 20+ million.


And all of this fails to discuss what Vince has done to the wrestling industry in being the only game in town. Goes back to Howard Stern thinking AEW was another brand of WWE. Something that has drove off millions of fans over a 20 year period.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> Cowboy shows don’t exist anymore. Are we incapable of writing a good western?
> 
> Everyone can relate to music, so that is a fucking stupid comparison. Music is an every day part of life. 300+ million US citizens know what music is. Nearly 8 billion people on this planet know what music is.
> 
> Venturing to guess that 50% of the US population (150 million) knows what WWE is and only 2 million choosing to watch it vs let’s be super fucking generous and say 20 million people (which is more than the fucking totality of people watching the Monday Night Wars live, but I digress) know what AEW is, and for rounding of numbers we’ll say they are only getting just 1 million to choose to watch it.
> 
> That’s a 5% success rate of keeping eyes out of the people that know it exists vs the 1.3% that actively choose to staying watching WWE.
> 
> Brand awareness, man. 150+ million people vs 20+ million.
> 
> 
> And all of this fails to discuss what Vince has done to the wrestling industry in being the only game in town. Goes back to Howard Stern thinking AEW was another brand of WWE. Something that has drove off millions of fans over a 20 year period.


No it's the perfect example, because according to y'all longevity and brand awareness are nigh impossible to overcome for new things. Yet the biggest singing talent show in the demo is a 2 year old show and not American Idol the show with longevity and brand awareness. Somehow fans of that show don't forget to watch. Maybe just maybe The Masked Singer was able to surpass American Idol and The Voice in the demo because they found a way to put a new spin on talent shows and put on a fun show to the point fans of talent shows felt they had to watch every week. But no according to y'all American Idol should be winning just based on the fact it has the brand awareness and longevity. 

You're just rattling off a list of excuses.


----------



## 3venflow

The success of Grand Slam is showing with the Long Island tickets. More and more movement and they're now opening nearly 10k seats.

Rumour has it this could be 'Winter is Coming II'.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442256706247950337


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> The success of Grand Slam is showing with the Long Island tickets. More and more movement and they're now opening nearly 10k seats.
> 
> Rumour has it this could be 'Winter is Coming II'.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442256706247950337


Would be a dope spot to do a honorable Darby vs Sting match


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> No it's the perfect example, because according to y'all longevity and brand awareness are nigh impossible to overcome for new things. Yet the biggest singing talent show in the demo is a 2 year old show and not American Idol the show with longevity and brand awareness. Somehow fans of that show don't forget to watch. Maybe just maybe The Masked Singer was able to surpass American Idol and The Voice in the demo because they found a way to put a new spin on talent shows and put on a fun show to the point fans of talent shows felt they had to watch every week. But no according to y'all American Idol should be winning just based on the fact it has the brand awareness and longevity.
> 
> You're just rattling off a list of excuses.


American Idol and The Voice haven’t ran off fans in droves, nor are they synonymous with music. That’s the difference. WWE is synonymous with wrestling.

Like I predicted an hour ago, you’ve got your feet in the dirt and being a stubborn mule. Find someone else to argue with from this point. I have to get some sleep and work in 5 hours lol


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> American Idol and The Voice haven’t ran off fans in droves, nor are they synonymous with music. That’s the difference. WWE is synonymous with wrestling.
> 
> Like I predicted an hour ago, you’ve got your feet in the dirt and being a stubborn mule. Find someone else to argue with from this point. I have to get some sleep and work in 5 hours lol


American Idol doesn't get similar viewership to it's peak, yet it's still a known name in talent shows. You hate the example because The Masked Singer being more successful than American Idol, a stable in it's genre kills the entire "well AEW is young so of course it isn't surpassing" argument. AEW can surpass, when they create the product that allows them to surpass. Everything else is an excuse. 

And get a good rest


----------



## wwetna1

RapShepard said:


> You're really making my point for me. They beat Raw 2 weeks in a row in the demo. So why are some going back to the "well you know Raw does have longevity and brand awareness and really nobody should be expecting them to compete" argument as a crutch? It can't be
> 
> "Yeah best fuck company in the world we got the stars, a good tv deal, and a billionaire owner that cares about us the fans having a great product. Fans are waking up take that Vince". Weeks they win the demo
> 
> But then
> 
> "Well actually they're a really young company and you can't really expect them to compete with Raw, even if AEW has a lot going for them" weeks they lose the demo


You’re trying to be the voice of the voiceless and speak sense to the senseless


----------



## bdon

Ok man. Raw is a consistently better show than Dynamite. Look at the ratings for proof. You win. AEW just wishes it could be as entertaining as Raw.


----------



## wwetna1

bdon said:


> American Idol and The Voice haven’t ran off fans in droves, nor are they synonymous with music. That’s the difference. WWE is synonymous with wrestling.
> 
> Like I predicted an hour ago, you’ve got your feet in the dirt and being a stubborn mule. Find someone else to argue with from this point. I have to get some sleep and work in 5 hours lol


They are also seasonal. Wwe really takes no off season.


----------



## DaSlacker

bdon said:


> Ok man. Raw is a consistently better show than Dynamite. Look at the ratings for proof. You win. AEW just wishes it could be as entertaining as Raw.


I love AEW at the minute but it's difficult to argue which is better when talking about the arts. Whether that's movie, music, TV, comedy, theatre....

WWE is PG, spoon feeds its audience, features scripted promos, has very colourful sets, a slower in ring style. AEW is the opposite in those areas. Neither are better - it's all down to personal preference.

Both WWE and AEW feature a lot of stuff in the ring that doesn't make sense .

The only place AEW undisputedly beats WWE is with more consistent and logical storytelling, from top to bottom. Yet WWE is bloated anyway, with two of its brands featuring tight narrative.


----------



## bdon

DaSlacker said:


> I love AEW at the minute but it's difficult to argue which is better when talking about the arts. Whether that's movie, music, TV, comedy, theatre....
> 
> WWE is PG, spoon feeds its audience, features scripted promos, has very colourful sets, a slower in ring style. AEW is the opposite in those areas. Neither are better - it's all down to personal preference.
> 
> Both WWE and AEW feature a lot of stuff in the ring that doesn't make sense .
> 
> *The only place AEW undisputedly beats WWE is with more consistent and logical storytelling, from top to bottom*. Yet WWE is bloated anyway, with two of its brands featuring tight narrative.


Exactly what I was saying all along. The consistent story-telling will eventually walk the WWE down in the ratings department. As they were doing well before Punk and Bryan showed up. And as more people know and discover wrestling exists outside of the ONLY platform they know, WWE, they may be more willing to give it a try.

Brand. Fucking. Awareness.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Have they released All Out's ppv buys yet?


----------



## Jbardo37

Fearless Viper said:


> Have they released All Out's ppv buys yet?


Nah, usually takes 3-4 months for that info.


----------



## 3venflow

Fearless Viper said:


> Have they released All Out's ppv buys yet?


Tony Khan: 'Well over 200,000'

Meltzer: '205,000 to 220,000'

Thurston: 'Over 200,000 PPV buys'


----------



## 3venflow

Chris Harrington on what the advertisers care about. He says they are not actually that concerned about ratings as opposed to other things like selling out the Arthur Ashe Stadium or Shaq appearing. One thing he points out is how the Godzilla vs. Kong tie-in (Jurassics vs. Bear Country) is the type of thing that interests them.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442302599194157063


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> Chris Harrington on what the advertisers care about. He says they are not actually that concerned about ratings as opposed to other things like selling out the Arthur Ashe Stadium or Shaq appearing. One thing he points out is how the Godzilla vs. Kong tie-in (Jurassics vs. Bear Country) is the type of thing that interests them.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442302599194157063


Get Billie Eillish on the show ASAP


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

When are Full Gear tickets going to go live?


----------



## Prized Fighter

RapShepard said:


> Get Billie Eillish on the show ASAP


Is she supposed to have a Warner Media tie in? I believe that is what Harrington was referring to. The next big movie coming from Warner is Dune. The only options are Jason Mamoa or Batista. Clearly neither of those guys are happening.


----------



## RapShepard

Prized Fighter said:


> Is she supposed to have a Warner Media tie in? I believe that is what Harrington was referring to. The next big movie coming from Warner is Dune. The only options are Jason Mamoa or Batista. Clearly neither of those guys are happening.


Nope, but she's big in advertising in general like Shaq, and females love her.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Prized Fighter said:


> Is she supposed to have a Warner Media tie in? I believe that is what Harrington was referring to. The next big movie coming from Warner is Dune. The only options are Jason Mamoa or Batista. Clearly neither of those guys are happening.


i wouldn’t bet my house that Batista as a special guest will never happen - doesn‘t need to be a match


----------



## DaSlacker

bdon said:


> Exactly what I was saying all along. The consistent story-telling will eventually walk the WWE down in the ratings department. As they were doing well before Punk and Bryan showed up. And as more people know and discover wrestling exists outside of the ONLY platform they know, WWE, they may be more willing to give it a try.
> 
> Brand. Fucking. Awareness.


Like you, I tend to agree that it's brand loyalty that separates Raw and Dynamite by 700,000-800,000 viewers on an average day. As opposed to other factors. But I get what RapShepard's saying. 

Reason I think it's loyalty is because AEW started with 1.6 million in the first quarter of the first episode. It has never topped that. Last week they peaked at 1.4 million during the opener. Raw in Q4 2019 was peaking with 2.7 million and now peaks at 2.1 million. It's not like AEW started that high and fell to were it is now. It either lost fans like WWE but converted ex WWE over or started 1 million lower but maintained. 

IMO, AEW does have the ability to top that 1.6 million. Call me crazy if you will. I just don't think they've touched the sides in terms of age old themes such as emotional betrayal, rise to power, pure dominance, comeback, quest for the gold...Not when it comes to their original talent. Or a major serious angle, character development. Even a soap opera type storyline such as an affair, family drama, serious injury, whodunnit. That stuff always does well in the ratings but hasn't often been done effectively in wrestling. There are many cards still to play.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage rating*

Average viewership: 640,000
18-49: 0.29

* Fixed as I missed hour two being separate.

Hour one was #1 on cable, hour two was #4. Both hours averaged out also finished #1 I believe (0.285 which I presume is rounded up).


----------



## Mr316

3venflow said:


> *AEW Rampage rating*
> 
> Total viewership: 727,000
> 18-49: 0.32
> 
> #1 on cable.


#1 on cable at 10pm ET with a 2 hour show. Pretty damn good.


----------



## Prized Fighter

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442546377528053766
Here is an interesting idea. It could be a cool spot to have Rampage before Full Gear.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Mall of America is a trash heap these days. 1995 was a long time ago now.

If you're deadset on copying WCW I'd rather see Spring Breakout.


----------



## 3venflow

@Prized Fighter Tony Khan was a huge WCW fan (more than he was WWF) so it wouldn't surprise me if they run the Mall of America at some point. Pro wrestling in unique venues is cool, those Spring break Nitros were fun. Shame the Jericho Cruise isn't an AEW show this year.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

Doing a show at MOA would be really weird.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Not bad 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RapShepard

* Tracking Ratings With Rap Shepard*

Let's see the Rampage numbers without Punk

Rampage #1- 740k .31 demo

Dynamite 8/18- 975k .35 demo

Rampage #2 with Punk- 1.129 million .53 demo

Dynamite 8/25 with Punk- 1.172 million .48 demo

Rampage #3 no Punk- 722k .34 demo

Dynamite 9/1 - 1.047 .37 demo

Rampage #4 with Punk- 696k .30 demo

Dynamite 9/8 with Punk, Bryan, and Cole- 1.31 million .53 demo

Rampage #5 No Punk, Bryan, or Cole- 670k .27 demo

Dynamite 9/15 with Punk, Cole, and Bryan- 1.175 million .44 demo

Rampage #6 no Punk, Cole, or Bryan - 642k .28 demo

Dynamite 9/22 Bryan vs Omega- 1.273 million .48 demo

Rampage #7 Punk vs Hobbs- 640k .28 demo


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> *AEW Rampage rating*
> 
> Average viewership: 640,000
> 18-49: 0.29
> 
> * Fixed as I missed hour two being separate.
> 
> Hour one was #1 on cable, hour two was #4. Both hours averaged out also finished #1 I believe (0.285 which I presume is rounded up).
> 
> View attachment 109394


how da fuq does a show at 10 make number 1 and hour 2 at 11 makes number 4

that is pretty good


----------



## RapShepard

Punk brought the rating up from last week for the first hour by like 90k


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442592168019992578

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Not a good number. Either show tanked after Punk match or it just flat out didn’t deliver like it should have.

Edit: Whoops thought 640k was for first hour. Still 727k not as great as probably should’ve been for Punk match, but it’s fine. We’ll see what quarters show


----------



## yeahright2

So the Rampage numbers are out

AEW Ratings prediction game

@3venflow did it again :/

640K is not a good number compared to the initial spark of interest, and I did think a special episode would bring in more viewers.. But it looks like we´ve established a number by now. 5-650K is what they´re getting.
Maybe Punk and The Bucks aren´t as big a draw as some people think? hm..


----------



## omaroo

People need to remember the day and more than that the time Rampage was on at and is every week wont get stellar ratings.

They are not going to be doing 800k+ in that timeslot.

I really do hope TK pushes a move to a different day and time. Being content should not be the objective with Rampage.

That brand needs to get bigger and grow and it wont by being on Fridays.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> So the Rampage numbers are out
> 
> AEW Ratings prediction game
> 
> @3venflow did it again :/
> 
> 640K is not a good number compared to the initial spark of interest, and I did think a special episode would bring in more viewers.. But it looks like we´ve established a number by now. 5-650K is what they´re getting.
> Maybe Punk and The Bucks aren´t as big a draw as some people think? hm..


old people are in bed mate - don’t hate on the elderly like that


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> old people are in bed mate - don’t hate on the elderly like that


So that´s the excuse we´re going with this week?


----------



## Prosper

Good number under normal circumstances considering the time slot, but weak number considering it was Grand Slam Night II. Network seems to be cool with their numbers seeing as they're not moving so there's not much else to say honestly.


----------



## elo

#1 and #4 on cable for a taped television wrestling show starting at 10pm on a Friday is insane, no surprises TNT wants to keep it - ez ad $$$ for TNT.


----------



## TheGreatBanana

Terrible number for a show that had Punk wrestle his first televised match in 7 years as the first match. This is all the reason why WWE didn’t want to sign him when his agents reached out and adds fuel for his critics to say he’s not a needle mover. This is Rampage’s lowest viewership yet.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> So that´s the excuse we´re going with this week?


yes 

legit though, looking at the demos - its mostly lost on 50+ / so, in actual reality… old people didn’t stay up 😂

not that it matters of course


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Horrible rating for Rampage:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442581221985472515
Like I said, CM Punk's drawing power is greatly overstated here. It was his first televised match in 7 years on a 2-hour special that followed a mega show on Wednesday and they did their worst rating ever. Not a needle mover. The Tribal Chief is right again.*


----------



## 3venflow

Hour one was Rampage's third highest rating in the 10-11pm slot since it started behind only the pilot and Punk's debut.

The total average was 640k entirely due to the second half of the show running through midnight. Anyone expecting a 2-hour show from 10-12 to rate as well as a 1-hour show from 10-11 needs a reality check.

The QHs will probably tell the story.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

3venflow said:


> @Prized Fighter Tony Khan was a huge WCW fan (more than he was WWF)


Well at least Khan has good taste


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yes
> 
> legit though, looking at the demos - its mostly lost on 50+ / so, in actual reality… old people didn’t stay up [emoji23]
> 
> not that it matters of course


Y'all are all thinking wrong, old people love the news and conservative talking points. Boom conservative character with a news segment exclusive to Dynamite. Watch the 50+ sky rocket and the Cialis ads commence.


----------



## Swindle

CM Punk should turn heel and Bryan has always been the bigger star of the two.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Horrible rating for Rampage:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442581221985472515
> Like I said, CM Punk's drawing power is greatly overstated here. It was his first televised match in 7 years on a 2-hour special that followed a mega show on Wednesday and they did their worst rating ever. Not a needle mover. The Tribal Chief is right again.*


Reigns or Baker? Which one moves the needle more?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Reigns or Baker? Which one moves the needle more?


*Acknowledge her.*


----------



## elo

This thread is seriously embarrassing, the #4 show on all of cable for Friday was the 2nd hour of a taped wrestling show at 11pm to midnight!!!! and it's being described at terrible by the gurus in this thread, seriously give yourselves uppercuts. Turner is printing $$$ on this show, it is costing them close to nothing to broadcast and they're cleaning up the key demo ranking, this is how Tony scores himself significant leverage when negotiating AEW's next tv deal.

EDIT: Just for a comparison - Fox pays WWE ~$200 million a year for Smackdown, Turner is paying AEW ~$55 million a year for Dynamite AND Rampage. Dynamite + Rampage combined does a key demo number higher than Smackdown and is 1 hour (2 hours last week) more time to jam ads in - which network is getting the better deal? (don't answer this question gurus)


----------



## Prized Fighter

3venflow said:


> Hour one was Rampage's third highest rating in the 10-11pm slot since it started behind only the pilot and Punk's debut.
> 
> The total average was 640k entirely due to the second half of the show running through midnight. Anyone expecting a 2-hour show from 10-12 to rate as well as a 1-hour show from 10-11 needs a reality check.
> 
> The QHs will probably tell the story.


It is amazing to me how many people are missing this fact. Punk was a draw for the hour that he was apart of. The 2nd hour tanked at a bad hour and with less interesting matchups. If we want to put the drawing card, then Mox is the one who didn't draw.


----------



## RapShepard

🪑[emoji897][emoji102]


----------



## .christopher.

Everyone knows Rampage is in a death slot, and I'm not saying they should treat it like Velocity with no stars on the show, but Punk's first TV match really should've been on Dynamite.

If you're going to have Omega and Bryan open, let Punk close.


----------



## Jay Trotter

Tony is setting Punk up for failure by sticking him on the B show against a D level opponent at 10pm. It's the second time now he didn't maximize his drawing power by putting his iconic debut and first TV match on Rampage instead of Dynamite. Just a terrible business decision yet again. With it being a taped show with spoilers already leaked, it's like a wet dream setup for haters of Punk. It's a miracle the first hour finished #1 at a 0.32. 700k+ is actually decent in this terrible timeslot. If you think Bryan vs The Butcher would've drawn any better, you are truly kidding yourself. Rampage needs to be moved to Saturday at 6pm on TBS. Enough of these shows that run until 11pm and 12am on a Friday night. Punk single handedly brought 200K buyrates for All Out. If there's a big moment with him, it clearly belongs on Dynamite. Start the fued with MJF this week.


----------



## wwetna1

Jay Trotter said:


> Tony is setting Punk up for failure by sticking him on the B show against a D level opponent at 10pm. It's the second time now he didn't maximize his drawing power by putting his iconic debut and first TV match on Rampage instead of Dynamite. Just a terrible business decision yet again. With it being a taped show with spoilers already leaked, it's like a wet dream setup for haters of Punk. It's a miracle the first hour finished #1 at a 0.32. 700k+ is actually decent in this terrible timeslot. If you think Bryan vs The Butcher would've drawn any better, you are truly kidding yourself. Rampage needs to be moved to Saturday at 6pm on TBS. Enough of these shows that run until 11pm and 12am on a Friday night. Punk single handedly brought 200K buyrates for All Out. If there's a big moment with him, it clearly belongs on Dynamite. Start the fued with MJF this week.


Bryan would have drawn better in that slot. It’s a different night, but that slot is essentially the slot of Raws third hour. Bryan’s first match on tv would have did better because Bryan has been more relevant the last couple years.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

It's not even a bad number, even for Punk.

Quarters will obviously tell a better story though of what happened. From what we have, the first hour was good. Punk still delivered but on the low end.


----------



## sideon

Prized Fighter said:


> It is amazing to me how many people are missing this fact. Punk was a draw for the hour that he was apart of. The 2nd hour tanked at a bad hour and with less interesting matchups. If we want to put the drawing card, then Mox is the one who didn't draw.


You make it sound like Punk drew over a million when his match was on, the quarter hours are probably going to show that his match was in the 700k which is not a good number. Ya'll have to stop acting like 9pm is just too much for a wrestling fan to stay up for, there really is no difference between 8pm and 9pm. It's funny how NXT was killed for getting 700k whn they were going against Dynamite, yet 600k is a great number for AEW going against nothing.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> 🪑[emoji897][emoji102]


*And they wonder why they get clowned when Rampage flops.*


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> *And they wonder why they get clowned when Rampage flops.*


Obviously he's on the super extreme end of the fan base. But the idea there's somebody like that is just funny.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

I like Punk, but he just doesn't feel like a big deal right now. They brought him in as a guy trying to put the whole company over. By doing so he's starting to feel like just another guy in the company.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

I still don't know why they won't move it to Sat on TBS or something ...we saw Dynamite flop in that slot at 460K its actually surprising Rampage has been around 600-700 K its a death slot for a reason

either move it to a different night or if you insist on staying on Friday just say fuck it and compete with Smack down ..it couldn't do any worse than 10 pm


----------



## RapShepard

Botchy SinCara said:


> I still don't know why they won't move it to Sat on TBS or something ...we saw Dynamite flop in that slot at 460K its actually surprising Rampage has been around 600-700 K its a death slot for a reason
> 
> either move it to a different night or if you insist on staying on Friday just say fuck it and compete with Smack down ..it couldn't do any worse than 10 pm


Shit instead of competing possibly going 6pm-8pm might work cause you could give the cross over section their fill of wrestling for the night


----------



## thorn123

The Boy Wonder said:


> I like Punk, but he just doesn't feel like a big deal right now. They brought him in as a guy trying to put the whole company over. By doing so he's starting to feel like just another guy in the company.


It does feel a bit like a nostalgia tour. Hopefully he is just getting his legs under him and he can move from mid card feuds to main event feuds soon. When he gives someone the rub in the main event it needs to mean something.


----------



## thorn123

Jay Trotter said:


> Tony is setting Punk up for failure by sticking him on the B show against a D level opponent at 10pm. It's the second time now he didn't maximize his drawing power by putting his iconic debut and first TV match on Rampage instead of Dynamite. Just a terrible business decision yet again. With it being a taped show with spoilers already leaked, it's like a wet dream setup for haters of Punk. It's a miracle the first hour finished #1 at a 0.32. 700k+ is actually decent in this terrible timeslot. If you think Bryan vs The Butcher would've drawn any better, you are truly kidding yourself. Rampage needs to be moved to Saturday at 6pm on TBS. Enough of these shows that run until 11pm and 12am on a Friday night. Punk single handedly brought 200K buyrates for All Out. If there's a big moment with him, it clearly belongs on Dynamite. Start the fued with MJF this week.


In his defence, I think Khan was hoping Punk will turn Rampage into another A show. Sadly too many things (several of what you suggested) are working against Punk and Khan.


----------



## bdon

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442592168019992578
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So, AEW beat Smackdown on basic cable?

One more…for the good guys.


----------



## bdon

TheGreatBanana said:


> Terrible number for a show that had Punk wrestle his first televised match in 7 years as the first match. This is all the reason why WWE didn’t want to sign him when his agents reached out and adds fuel for his critics to say he’s not a needle mover. This is Rampage’s lowest viewership yet.


10pm on a Friday night is a shit time slot.


----------



## wwetna1

Botchy SinCara said:


> I still don't know why they won't move it to Sat on TBS or something ...we saw Dynamite flop in that slot at 460K its actually surprising Rampage has been around 600-700 K its a death slot for a reason
> 
> either move it to a different night or if you insist on staying on Friday just say fuck it and compete with Smack down ..it couldn't do any worse than 10 pm


He doesn’t want that nba smoke on Saturday. The nba has showcase games on Saturdays on NBA TV and they just opened up camps, unless if you think Warner won’t mind splitting their audience up between networks. And then ESPN takes over Saturday nba schedules starting Dec 11 so you’re going head to head with them in prime time.

Honestly they cannot book their show on TNT on Tuesday or Thursday because those are nba nights and Inside the NBA is worth more than AEW to them. I think it’s going to have to be book on Saturday or go head up with SD If you want better numbers. But if you go head up with SD after all the boasting you’ve done as a company and Reigns/Becky hand you are ass, it’s awful. They could have easily made a move to Thursday work on tbs but not tnt.


----------



## Jbardo37

Punk needs to move into a good feud to really get going, I’m thinking MJF or heel Cody.


----------



## TheGreatBanana

bdon said:


> 10pm on a Friday night is a shit time slot.


Stop making excuses


----------



## bdon

TheGreatBanana said:


> Stop making excuses


Ok, see ya E-Drone.


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

bdon said:


> 10pm on a Friday night is a shit time slot.


But Punk's debut got 1.1m viewers, at the same time, the time slot didn't affect them too much then. Plus 10PM isn't that bad of a time slot, Raw's 3rd hour starts at 10 and last week it was the highest rated hour of the show.

I think Punk just feels like another guy on the roster, there's no excuse his 1st match on TV in 7 years should be getting numbers even NXT gets clowned for. 

With Punk, Jericho, the Bucks, Cole and Moxley all wrestling I was thinking they were gonna do similar numbers to Punk's debut on Rampage. Instead this week was lower than the previous week where Fuego Del Sol was in the main event. 

Not the best look for Punk's drawing abilities.


----------



## bdon

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> But Punk's debut got 1.1m viewers, at the same time, the time slot didn't affect them too much then. Plus 10PM isn't that bad of a time slot, Raw's 3rd hour starts at 10 and last week it was the highest rated hour of the show.
> 
> I think Punk just feels like another guy on the roster, there's no excuse his 1st match on TV in 7 years should be getting numbers even NXT gets clowned for.
> 
> With Punk, Jericho, the Bucks, Cole and Moxley all wrestling I was thinking they were gonna do similar numbers to Punk's debut on Rampage. Instead this week was lower than the previous week where Fuego Del Sol was in the main event.
> 
> Not the best look for Punk's drawing abilities.


10pm on a Monday is not 10pm on a Friday night, especially for a show whose audience skews largely in that 18-49 demo.


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

bdon said:


> 10pm on a Monday is not 10pm on a Friday night, especially for a show whose audience skews largely in that 18-49 demo.


Their average viewer is what, 46? I doubt most of them are going out partying. And like I said earlier, how do you explain the 1.1m that tuned in for his debut at 10 on Rampage? You'd think more of those people would be interested in seeing him wrestle.


----------



## bdon

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> Their average viewer is what, 46? I doubt most of them are going out partying. And like I said earlier, how do you explain the 1.1m that tuned in for his debut at 10 on Rampage? You'd think more of those people would be interested in seeing him wrestle.


No, more of them tuned in just to be part of the spectacle. There’s a reason you don’t see any worthwhile mainstream hit shows on at 10pm on a Friday night. Lol


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

bdon said:


> No, more of them tuned in just to be part of the spectacle. There’s a reason you don’t see any worthwhile mainstream hit shows on at 10pm on a Friday night. Lol


The spectacle? I thought they tuned in because they were CM Punk fans and were excited to see him back in wrestling after 7 years. The fact that most of them tuned in for his debut but didn't care enough to come back to see him do the thing he claims to be the best in the world at is odd. 

I'm not even saying I expected crazy numbers like his debut but the fact that hour 1 with his match on it only got 727k viewers is wild to me.


----------



## bdon

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> Their average viewer is what, 46? I doubt most of them are going out partying. And like I said earlier, how do you explain the 1.1m that tuned in for his debut at 10 on Rampage? You'd think more of those people would be interested in seeing him wrestle.


Over half of the audience that watched hour 1 Rampage was 18-34. Hour 2 saw an even further drop in that 35-49 demo with 18-34 demo making up nearly 75% of the 18-49 demo.

10pm on a Friday night is a terrible, terrible time slot.


----------



## bdon

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> The spectacle? I thought they tuned in because they were CM Punk fans and were excited to see him back in wrestling after 7 years. The fact that most of them tuned in for his debut but didn't care enough to come back to see him do the thing he claims to be the best in the world at is odd.
> 
> I'm not even saying I expected crazy numbers like his debut but the fact that hour 1 with his match on it only got 727k viewers is wild to me.


I wouldn’t read into it too much. The quarter hours should tell more of the story.


----------



## TheGreatBanana

bdon said:


> Ok, see ya E-Drone.


Shut it, Rampage got a million viewership when Punk debut on the same time slot and they couldn’t do that with the Ashe show. Alway making excuses.


----------



## TheRedeemer

Not too bad I guess, the quarter hours will show if there was a big drop off during the 1st hour.

The debut show did 750k.
The punk debut did 1.1m
After that, they now seem to settle around 650k

In comparison:
Smackdown debuted with 3.85m. The debut and of course The Rock boosted their numbers greatly
The week after they were doing 2,9m
A month in, they were around 2.5m. Sometimes doing 2.7 sometimes 2.3.
Maybe they’ve come close to the 2.9 again, don’t know that.

The 750k and 650k drop off is about 14%
The 2.9 and 2.5 the drop off is about 14%.

Guess the Punk’s return was for Rampage what The Rock was to the Smackdown debut. They are not going to see that number in long time I reckon. Also this is not a dig at Smackdown but it's funny to see drop off for both shows are the same


----------



## DaSlacker

They might be best just putting Rampage head to head with Raw at 9pm. Hope that a stronger TV night helps, 18-49 jump over and benefits from wrestling viewers flicking back and forth. Although I think TNT likes demo winning Friday in a later slot.


----------



## zkorejo

Taped and death slot.

Second hour wasn't even good tbh.


----------



## Not Lying

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442589567945777153
I'm just posting this to see the crying "why are we comparing only Male 18-49".

Well, that's why


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442591935609413632


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442589567945777153
> I'm just posting this to see the crying "why are we comparing only Male 18-49".
> 
> Well, that's why
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442591935609413632


*Holy shit, no wonder they cling on so desperately to that one demo. They're getting KILLED everywhere else. This is embarrassing.*


----------



## Prized Fighter

RapShepard said:


> Shit instead of competing possibly going 6pm-8pm might work cause you could give the cross over section their fill of wrestling for the night


I agree with this. It would make sense to move the show to 7 pm on Friday. This may be tough for people on the west coast, but I am not sure if they get Rampage at the same hour as the east or if it comes out at 10 pm (PT).

Going directly against SmackDown is death since WWE has the brand with the established day/time slot.


----------



## Not Lying

The Legit DMD said:


> *Holy shit, no wonder they cling on so desperately to that one demo. They're getting KILLED everywhere else. This is embarrassing.*


Females 35-49 almost double, all those older women tuning in to see Aquaman 🤣


----------



## 3venflow

Very interesting to see Dynamite do a bigger number than RAW and Smackdown in the 18-49 males. How can they get the females without compromising the product that makes them so successful with males? That's something for the in-house analysts. If they get the females and some more boomers, they then close the total viewership gap. But Thurston's chart shows that they are now competitive in key metrics, whereas earlier this year besides the occasional anomaly, WWE shows won every demo category.


----------



## thorn123

Rampage was fine and AEW programming has been on point. Sure the time slot and being taped affect it a little. But the low viewership says more about the lapsed fan and the value of decades old branding.

I have said it adnauseam, the only way AEW will reach spectacular heights is if they stumble across the next hulkster or Austin, or they catch lightening in a bottle with an angle aka Bash at the beach 96’


----------



## Not Lying

3venflow said:


> Very interesting to see Dynamite do a bigger number than RAW and Smackdown in the 18-49 males. How can they get the females without compromising the product that makes them so successful with males? That's something for the in-house analysts. If they get the females and some more boomers, they then close the total viewership gap. But Thurston's chart shows that they are now competitive in key metrics, whereas earlier this year besides the occasional anomaly, WWE shows won every demo category.


it's definitely VERY impressive.
This is pretty much us, the people, M 18-49 is probably the most present in the IWC, it's not surprising to see it translate to TV.

Female 18-34 beating SD was quite shocking. But, tbf, younger girls are probably out Friday night lol


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> it's definitely VERY impressive.
> This is pretty much us, the people, M 18-49 is probably the most present in the IWC, it's not surprising to see it translate to TV.
> 
> Female 18-34 beating SD was quite shocking. But, tbf, younger girls are probably out Friday night lol


*There are two big reasons WWE has the women and elderly on lock: Roman Reigns, and a stronger emphasis on women's wrestling. Women like hot guys and old men like seeing young (attractive) women kick ass. Britt gathered all the old folks last week.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Very interesting to see Dynamite do a bigger number than RAW and Smackdown in the 18-49 males. How can they get the females without compromising the product that makes them so successful with males? That's something for the in-house analysts. If they get the females and some more boomers, they then close the total viewership gap. But Thurston's chart shows that they are now competitive in key metrics, whereas earlier this year besides the occasional anomaly, WWE shows won every demo category.


they might not get the females with dynamite - but i think that is why they created ‘rhodes to the top’

its basically to capture their missing market


----------



## Not Lying

LifeInCattleClass said:


> they might not get the females with dynamite - but i think that is why they created ‘rhodes to the top’
> 
> its basically to capture their missing market


10pm is a shitty time-slot too though. 
What’s good is that We’ll see how much people from Dynamite carry over, and the new female %


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Definition of Technician said:


> 10pm is a shitty time-slot too though.
> What’s good is that We’ll see how much people from Dynamite carry over, and the new female %


 very true

tnt needs to step up their timeslot game with aew


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

Going to Full Gear


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Undertaker23RKO said:


> Going to Full Gear


wowie! Congrats!


----------



## Joe Gill

The Legit DMD said:


> *Holy shit, no wonder they cling on so desperately to that one demo. They're getting KILLED everywhere else. This is embarrassing.*


the male 18-49 is by far the most important demo in wrestling. Which demo do you think is the most likeliest to buy wrestling video games? action figures? wrestling belts? attend live events? buy ppvs? its younger males. the majority of people on wrestling forum are males 18-49. Having more 70 year olds watching your program isnt really something to be bragging about. Only area AEW needs to improve is bumping up the younger female viewers.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Joe Gill said:


> the male 18-49 is by far the most important demo in wrestling. Which demo do you think is the most likeliest to buy wrestling video games? action figures? wrestling belts? attend live events? buy ppvs? its younger males. the majority of people on wrestling forum are males 18-49. Having more 70 year olds watching your program isnt really something to be bragging about. Only area AEW needs to improve is bumping up the younger female viewers.


*Female fans (of all ages) spend a ton of money on wrestling merch and you guys constantly underrate that demo. I'm glad you at least acknowledged it needs bumping. Most people here won't even do that. Britt does a fantastic job of maintaining that demo along with the old folks, yet people here try to spin it as a bad thing because it's not the only demo AEW has a chance of maintaining.*


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *Holy shit, no wonder they cling on so desperately to that one demo. They're getting KILLED everywhere else. This is embarrassing.*


^^^Doesn’t get it.


----------



## 3venflow

This week's target set by RAW is 0.48 (0.476 to be exact). Another lofty goal for Dynamite as it's about the same (very slightly less) as what Grand Slam did last week and this week's card is much smaller. So I think RAW will top the demo battle again this week.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442951371313987584


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> This week's target set by RAW is 0.48 (0.476 to be exact). Another lofty goal for Dynamite as it's about the same (very slightly less) as what Grand Slam did last week and this week's card is much smaller. So I think RAW will top the demo battle again this week.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442951371313987584


They'll likely be close I see them getting 1.15 million and a .44 demo. 

@yeahright2 that's also my official prediction this week


----------



## 3venflow

AEW SVP Chris Harrington revealing what a big effect CM Punk has had on AEW.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1440492108763123712


----------



## reamstyles

TheGreatBanana said:


> Stop making excuses


So wwe should demand fox to move smackdown to thursday nights..


----------



## 3venflow

Rampage quarter hours. Usual story for the most part of the later the night got, the more the ratings dropped although there were a couple of very minor gains like the main event. Started strong with the Punk match.


----------



## yeahright2

3venflow said:


> Rampage quarter hours. Usual story for the most part of the later the night got, the more the ratings dropped although there were a couple of very minor gains like the main event. Started strong with the Punk match.
> 
> View attachment 109471


looks like the "Demo God" has been dethroned.


----------



## Not Lying

Yeah, Ford vs Jay was not a good match for the show, I like both girls but this doesn't look out. of place on Dark so it should be at GS.

Moxley is finally getting to main event...Rampage at 11:45,


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Punk "moving the needle" yet again. Match start wasn't a monster number like I was hoping, but it was still well above the average the last few weeks and the clear reason the first hour did very well. Was the highest quarter Rampage has gotten outside of his debut episode. 

Rest of the show pretty much just kept declining, with it rapidly going down once you got into the second hour with Q6. Bottomed out at just over 500k. I'd guess that's the absolute lowest we should probably expect a quarter of Rampage to go (although if some of the Friday Dynamite episodes are anything to go by... might be capable of going lower). Second hour really hurt the overall number, which I was kind of expecting.


----------



## Prosper

Damn Punk' match did great but the show fell off completely after him. I enjoyed the show though.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Punk "moving the needle" yet again. Match start wasn't a monster number like I was hoping, but it was still well above the average the last few weeks and the clear reason the first hour did very well. Was the highest quarter Rampage has gotten outside of his debut episode.
> 
> Rest of the show pretty much just kept declining, with it rapidly going down once you got into the second hour with Q6. Bottomed out at just over 500k. I'd guess that's the absolute lowest we should probably expect a quarter of Rampage to go (although if some of the Friday Dynamite episodes are anything to go by... might be capable of going lower). Second hour really hurt the overall number, which I was kind of expecting.


*56,000 people decided it wasn't worth staying for the finish to his first televised match in 7 years. That's not moving the needle. In other unsurprising news, The Elite tag match lost 53,000 as well.*


----------



## DaSlacker

The Legit DMD said:


> *56,000 people decided it wasn't worth staying for the finish to his first televised match in 7 years. That's not moving the needle. In other unsurprising news, The Elite tag match lost 53,000 as well.*


Not sure it's fair to read too much into a taped and leaked show in this day and age. Especially with something like AEW. A brand with a fairly dedicated hard core audience but here and there larger audience.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

DaSlacker said:


> Not sure it's fair to read too much into a taped and leaked show in this day and age. Especially with something like AEW. A brand with a fairly dedicated hard core audience but here and there larger audience.


*That doesn't matter. If The Rock came back to wrestle on a taped Smackdown, do you really think people wouldn't watch because they read about it online?*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *56,000 people decided it wasn't worth staying for the finish to his first televised match in 7 years. That's not moving the needle. In other unsurprising news, The Elite tag match lost 53,000 as well.*


damn adam cole tanking the elite ratings


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> damn adam cole tanking the elite ratings


*I know you're trolling, but he can catch some of this heat for that awful exchange with Luchasaurus as well.*


----------



## Mr316

What’s wrong with some of you? Dynamite did close to 1.3 million viewers last Wednesdsy which is great. Did you expect AEW to do Dynamite numbers with a show that finished at midnight on a Friday?

Their first hour finished #1 on cable. Their 2nd hour finished 4th which makes complete sense. There’s no way there would ever be 800-900k viewers at 11:30-45 on a Friday.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Mr316 said:


> What’s wrong with some of you? Dynamite did close to 1.3 million viewers last Wednesdsy which is great. Did you expect AEW to do Dynamite numbers with a show that finished at midnight on a Friday?
> 
> Their first hour finished #1 on cable. Their 2nd hour finished 4th which makes complete sense. There’s no way there would ever be 800-900k viewers at 11:30-45 on a Friday.


*CM Punk's return show did 1.1 million average in a 10:00 time slot. There's proof that there are people willing to watch TV at that hour. His first match back peaked at 800k as the opener. The interest for his return dwindled quickly since his first Dynamite back. He's selling a ton of merch and that's great, but he's definitely not the guy some people think he is in terms of being a mainstream attraction that can bring back the lapsed casual fan.*


----------



## the_flock

Joe Gill said:


> the male 18-49 is by far the most important demo in wrestling. Which demo do you think is the most likeliest to buy wrestling video games? action figures? wrestling belts? attend live events? buy ppvs? its younger males. the majority of people on wrestling forum are males 18-49. Having more 70 year olds watching your program isnt really something to be bragging about. Only area AEW needs to improve is bumping up the younger female viewers.


Which group has the most disposable income. I tell you now, its not the demo you think.


----------



## the_flock

The Legit DMD said:


> *CM Punk's return show did 1.1 million average in a 10:00 time slot. There's proof that there are people willing to watch TV at that hour. His first match back peaked at 800k as the opener. The interest for his return dwindled quickly since his first Dynamite back. He's selling a ton of merch and that's great, but he's definitely not the guy some people think he is in terms of being a mainstream attraction that can bring back the lapsed casual fan.*


He never was a massive draw. He will shift merch to begin with to the hardcore fans and then that will dwindle down further and then all they've got is an expensive flop.


----------



## the_flock

3venflow said:


> AEW SVP Chris Harrington revealing what a big effect CM Punk has had on AEW.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1440492108763123712


Did he ever reveal the 6 business metrics that have seen a massive jump? 

Or was it one of things which is never revealed.


----------



## Mr316

The Legit DMD said:


> *CM Punk's return show did 1.1 million average in a 10:00 time slot. There's proof that there are people willing to watch TV at that hour. His first match back peaked at 800k as the opener. The interest for his return dwindled quickly since his first Dynamite back. He's selling a ton of merch and that's great, but he's definitely not the guy some people think he is in terms of being a mainstream attraction that can bring back the lapsed casual fan.*


Yes. His return after 7 years of absence. He won’t pull that same number every week on a Friday. Get your head out of your ass.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

the_flock said:


> He never was a massive draw. He will shift merch to begin with to the hardcore fans and then that will dwindle down further and then all they've got is an expensive flop.


*I wouldn't call him a flop or a failure, because he probably paid for his contract in merch and ice cream sales already, but I'm pointing this out for the people who got butt hurt over Roman Reigns telling the truth about him not being a needle mover like The Rock.*



Mr316 said:


> Yes. His return after 7 years of absence. He won’t pull that same number every week on a Friday. Get your head out of your ass.


*And the episode featuring his first televised match back shouldn't do the worst rating ever, so stop making excuses about the time slot when we have evidence that there is an audience willing to watch if it's worth watching.*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The Legit DMD said:


> *56,000 people decided it wasn't worth staying for the finish to his first televised match in 7 years. That's not moving the needle. In other unsurprising news, The Elite tag match lost 53,000 as well.*


Probably dropped off after his match ended. It was only a couple minutes of that quarter.

Needle moving 




Mr316 said:


> Yes. His return after 7 years of absence. He won’t pull that same number every week on a Friday. Get your head out of your ass.


Probably best not to get to deep into that argument. He’s just desperate to show Reigns is right, even though he’s clearly not (frankly I think Reigns was just trolling anyway).


----------



## DaSlacker

The Legit DMD said:


> *That doesn't matter. If The Rock came back to wrestle on a taped Smackdown, do you really think people wouldn't watch because they read about it online?*


This is true but The Rock is possibly the biggest celebrity in the world. CM Punk is Bret Hart/Shawn Michaels/Edge level of fame.


----------



## thorn123

the_flock said:


> He never was a massive draw. He will shift merch to begin with to the hardcore fans and then that will dwindle down further and then all they've got is an expensive flop.


I have said that no one and no thing except the reincarnation of hogan or Austin or an NWO type angle will have much effect on viewership … not lesnar, not reigns, not the worlds best booking and definitely not punk.

As an AEW fan I would like to be wrong.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Probably dropped off after his match ended. It was only a couple minutes of that quarter.
> 
> Needle moving
> 
> 
> Probably best not to get to deep into that argument. He’s just desperate to show Reigns is right, even though he’s clearly not (frankly I think Reigns was just trolling anyway).


*Reigns is definitely right and you're desperately denying facts. These aren't opinions. We can SEE the drops. We saw Britt Baker outdraw his earlier slotted segment. CM Punk is NOT a needle mover like The Rock and it's ridiculous to try to deny that at this point, when we have recent tangible evidence to shut down a 10-year-old false narrative.*



DaSlacker said:


> This is true but The Rock is possibly the biggest celebrity in the world. CM Punk is Bret Hart/Shawn Michaels/Edge level of fame.


*I'm fine with that comparison. The issue is that these people wanted to rage at Roman Reigns for making a completely true statement about Punk not being on The Rock's level of star power, and he gets proven right every week.*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The Legit DMD said:


> *Reigns is definitely right and you're desperately denying facts. These aren't opinions. We can SEE the drops. We saw Britt Baker outdraw his earlier slotted segment. CM Punk is NOT a needle mover like The Rock and it's ridiculous to try to deny that at this point, when we have recent tangible evidence to shut down a 10-year-old false narrative.*


Was that Reigns’ quote? That Punk’s not as big a draw as Rock? Cause yeah, he’s not.

Trying to say he hasn’t move the needle and the way you’re doing it is desperate though despite the evidence showing otherwise.


----------



## the_flock

DaSlacker said:


> This is true but The Rock is possibly the biggest celebrity in the world. CM Punk is Bret Hart/Shawn Michaels/Edge level of fame.


I wouldn't say Punk is on Brets level. Bret was known worldwide. 

Edge and Michaels were big, but Bret beats them on the fact he was huge in Europe.


----------



## 3venflow

the_flock said:


> Did he ever reveal the 6 business metrics that have seen a massive jump?


It'll be: ratings/demographics, attendances/ticket sales, merchandise, social media growth and something else (advertisers perhaps, since FOX offered WWE help to re-sign Punk so must know his value).


----------



## the_flock

DaveRA said:


> I have said that no one and no thing except the reincarnation of hogan or Austin or an NWO type angle will have much effect on viewership … not lesnar, not reigns, not the worlds best booking and definitely not punk.
> 
> As an AEW fan I would like to be wrong.


Oh yeah I agree. Cena would give them a few hundred k boost. Lesnar would give a bit of a boost. But they would need a Rock or Austin to join to do significant numbers or a major celebrity, not one which was popular 20 years ago. 

I think with good booking they could have kept the numbers up, but here we are. People checked in saw Punk and then decided not to return.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Was that Reigns’ quote? That Punk’s not as big a draw as Rock? Cause yeah, he’s not.
> 
> Trying to say he hasn’t move the needle and the way you’re doing it is desperate though despite the evidence showing otherwise.


*So you're telling me you've been mad about a quote you never heard in context? LMAO*


----------



## thorn123

the_flock said:


> Oh yeah I agree. Cena would give them a few hundred k boost. Lesnar would give a bit of a boost. But they would need a Rock or Austin to join to do significant numbers or a major celebrity, not one which was popular 20 years ago.
> 
> I think with good booking they could have kept the numbers up, but here we are. People checked in saw Punk and then decided not to return.


Yeh I am not saying they can’t improve viewership with various signings and good bookings, but it won’t make them a major player unless they can achieve the aforementioned. Not for several years anyway.


----------



## the_flock

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Was that Reigns’ quote? That Punk’s not as big a draw as Rock? Cause yeah, he’s not.
> 
> Trying to say he hasn’t move the needle and the way you’re doing it is desperate though despite the evidence showing otherwise.


He has helped move the needle alongside Danielson and Cole. 

It was massively hyped and a lot of people are disappointed by the numbers. Let's see what the numbers are like in a few weeks time. 

If the numbers are still 1.3 to 1.5, fair play, if they are 800k to 1.1, that's massively disappointing.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Let's be perfectly clear on Roman's quotes since there are some people that stopped reading at the needle mover headline:*


The Legit DMD said:


> *Interesting timing for these truthful statements by Roman Reigns.*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1428434134502883329


----------



## the_flock

DaveRA said:


> Yeh I am not saying they can’t improve viewership with various signings and good bookings, but it won’t make them a major player unless they can achieve the aforementioned. Not for several years anyway.


Will there realistically be another chance for this amount of hype though? 

AEW have had 2 peaks. Once when they started and announced Omega, Jericho and Moxley and now with Punk, Danielson, Cole and potentially Bray. 

After their 1st peak, they dropped half a million viewers. During this peak, they're already dropping numbers. 

What will the next peak be Owens, Zayn and Jeff Hardy...


----------



## thorn123

the_flock said:


> Will there realistically be another chance for this amount of hype though?
> 
> AEW have had 2 peaks. Once when they started and announced Omega, Jericho and Moxley and now with Punk, Danielson, Cole and potentially Bray.
> 
> After their 1st peak, they dropped half a million viewers. During this peak, they're already dropping numbers.
> 
> What will the next peak be Owens, Zayn and Jeff Hardy...


Nope, not in the short term anyway.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The Legit DMD said:


> *So you're telling me you've been mad about a quote you never heard in context? LMAO*


You’ve been the one saying Punk isn’t a needle mover. I’m explaining why he is. Reigns comment itself isn’t what I’m generally responding to. It’d be your misrepresentation of his comment if anything lol.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> You’ve been the one saying Punk isn’t a needle mover. I’m explaining why he is. Reigns comment itself isn’t what I’m generally responding to. It’d be your misrepresentation of his comment if anything lol.


*I was working under the assumption that everyone had heard the quote in its entirety and completely understood the context of what we were discussing. That's clearly not the case, and I hope it's universal, because if not, and people actually believe Punk is on The Rock's level, that's really embarrassing.*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The Legit DMD said:


> *I was working under the assumption that everyone had heard the quote in its entirety and completely understood the context of what we were discussing. That's clearly not the case, and I hope it's universal, because if not, and people actually believe Punk is on The Rock's level, that's really embarrassing.*


In my case, I remember seeing that post/tweet now but I only saw it once and forgot the full quote. I usually look at what’s presented.

Punk definitely isn’t the needle mover Rock is, but no one is. As for being as good or over as Cena, that depends exactly what he means. However that’s a topic for another time and frankly, if that’s his opinion that’s cool.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> In my case, I remember seeing that post/tweet now but I only a aw it once and forgot the full quote. I usually what’s look at what’s presented.
> 
> Punk definitely isn’t the needle mover Rock is, but no one is. As for being as good or over as Cena, that depends exactly what he means. However that’s a topic for another time and frankly, if that’s his opinion that’s cool.


*Agreed. I will say Punk was more over than Cena during Summer of Punk, but other than that, I think Roman is correct in that regard as well. I also agree that "as good" is relative to what we're discussing.*


----------



## DaSlacker

the_flock said:


> I wouldn't say Punk is on Brets level. Bret was known worldwide.
> 
> Edge and Michaels were big, but Bret beats them on the fact he was huge in Europe.


Yeah, I'll give you that. Bret was there at the 80's peak and went solo at the tail end... Just as business boomed in Europe. Think he had his own TV series back when.


----------



## Mr316

The Legit DMD said:


> *And the episode featuring his first televised match back shouldn't do the worst rating ever, so stop making excuses about the time slot when we have evidence that there is an audience willing to watch if it's worth watching.*


The show ended at midnight. The first hour which Punk was apart of finished #1 on cable and 800k viewers watched his match. He’s a draw.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Mr316 said:


> The show ended at midnight. The first hour which Punk was apart of finished #1 on cable and 800k viewers watched his match. He’s a draw.


*56,000 people left before his match was over.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *56,000 people left before his match was over.*


you’ll have to have minute by minute to truly see that

something tells me you’ll be wrong about that


----------



## 3venflow

Only 318 tickets of the 6,730 put on sale for the Wintrust Arena show in Chicago (Nov 24) remain. Revolution 2020 drew 7,000 there and AEW should match that number.

Tonight's show seems to have moved a fair few tickets today also, despite the new vaccine proof requirements. Attendance will be well over 6,500 I imagine, potentially even close to 7,000 depending on late walk-up.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you’ll have to have minute by minute to truly see that
> 
> something tells me you’ll be wrong about that


*You do realize the worst case scenario for me is he loses 30k viewers and the elite loses 70k+? It's still a big loss that makes your boys look even worse.*


----------



## Not Lying

The Legit DMD said:


> *You do realize the worst case scenario for me is he loses 30k viewers and the elite loses 70k+? It's still a big loss that makes your boys look even worse.*


Punk-Hobbs ended around 18min (so 3min of the 2nd Q)
1min Punk walking/commentators talking whats coming
1min promo of Rosa/Nyla/Jade (this is going to be a nice 3-way, can't wait) 

10min for the Elite, they get 2/3rd of the blame.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *You do realize the worst case scenario for me is he loses 30k viewers and the elite loses 70k+? It's still a big loss that makes your boys look even worse.*


baker or reigns?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> Punk-Hobbs ended around 18min (so 3min of the 2nd Q)
> 1min Punk walking/commentators talking whats coming
> 1min promo of Rosa/Nyla/Jade (this is going to be a nice 3-way, can't wait)
> 
> 10min for the Elite, they get 2/3rd of the blame.


*I have no objections to The Elite's goofy ass tag match getting the majority of the blame.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Nothing to see here…. Move along

LOLLLLL


----------



## ThunderNitro

Lex's face did not go with his body. He was far from the total package.


----------



## Garty

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Nothing to see here…. Move along
> 
> LOLLLLL
> 
> View attachment 109522
> 
> 
> View attachment 109523
> 
> 
> View attachment 109524


Holy shit, that is some digging into the 'information superhighway' of the past!!! Did you use your AOL disc to log on with your dial-up 100bit connection? You're surfing man, you're surfing!!! 

Well, this should put this issue to rest once and for all until next week.


----------



## bdon

How many tickets did WWE sell in MSG for their super show a few weeks ago?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> How many tickets did WWE sell in MSG for their super show a few weeks ago?


13k If i recall correct


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 13k If i recall correct


Ohhhhhh.

So what you’re saying is NYC chose to buy more tickets to AEW’s product than WWE and Reigns?

The Tribal Chief wants us to acknowledge him…








…bowing at the altar of HIS God of Pro-Wrestling.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Ohhhhhh.
> 
> So what you’re saying is NYC chose to buy more tickets to AEW’s product than WWE and Reigns?
> 
> The Tribal Chief wants us to acknowledge him…
> View attachment 109527
> 
> …bowing at the altar of HIS God of Pro-Wrestling.
> 
> View attachment 109526


basically all that you said is correct

but _some_ people might say Baker sold our Arthur Ashe


----------



## bdon

By the way, I’ll have you ALL know that I fully intend to watch rHHHodes to the Top. I am dying to see the full clip of that advertised Ricky Starks drunk off his ass bit. Lol


----------



## 3venflow

Target Center double header ticket news via WrestleTix

Full Gear pre-sale: about 5,000 tickets sold
Rampage pre-sale: over 4,000 tickets sold


----------



## bdon

AEW moving tickets more than WWE has to be concerning for those in charge at WWE. Losing NYC has to be a wake up call.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> By the way, I’ll have you ALL know that I fully intend to watch rHHHodes to the Top. I am dying to see the full clip of that advertised Ricky Starks drunk off his ass bit. Lol


lollll - you love to hate him

poor cody


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lollll - you love to hate him
> 
> poor cody


Yes poor Cody indeed. Guy watched Vince turn his father and brother into comedy acts and seems scarred by seeing that in his formative years, and he would now rather protect his image than work WITH the boys to make sure everyone gets over equally.

It’s a massive chip on his shoulder…


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Yes poor Cody indeed. Guy watched Vince turn his father and brother into comedy acts and seems scarred by seeing that in his formative years, and he would now rather protect his image than work WITH the boys to make sure everyone gets over equally.
> 
> It’s a massive chip on his shoulder…


oh brother, here comes Dr Bdon


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> Ohhhhhh.
> 
> So what you’re saying is NYC chose to buy more tickets to AEW’s product than WWE and Reigns?
> 
> The Tribal Chief wants us to acknowledge him…
> View attachment 109527
> 
> …bowing at the altar of HIS God of Pro-Wrestling.
> 
> View attachment 109526


Thats one way to see it  Pretty sure if MSG would hold 25k seats they would sold them as well. But I know, whatever makes Kenny look strong bdon


----------



## bdon

fabi1982 said:


> Thats one way to see it  Pretty sure if MSG would hold 25k seats they would sold them as well. But I know, whatever makes Kenny look strong bdon


The Tribal Chief and his tribe bow at the altar… lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Thats one way to see it  Pretty sure if MSG would hold 25k seats they would sold them as well. But I know, whatever makes Kenny look strong bdon


brother @fabi1982 loves Kenny, pass it around


----------



## Not Lying

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Nothing to see here…. Move along
> 
> LOLLLLL
> 
> View attachment 109522
> 
> 
> View attachment 109523
> 
> 
> View attachment 109524



The end of all “never been talked about before” and “doesn’t matter to advertisers” BS. 

Everyone who has accused AEW or Meltzer of putting focus on the demo now looks like a moron.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Definition of Technician said:


> The end of all “never been talked about before” and “doesn’t matter to advertisers” BS.
> 
> Everyone who has accused AEW or Meltzer of putting focus on the demo now looks like a moron.


feel free to save the pics and repost them whenever it comes up

i know i will


----------



## Not Lying

LifeInCattleClass said:


> feel free to save the pics and repost them whenever it comes up
> 
> i know i will


I’m not that petty and bitter 😊

Or… Am I? 🤣


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Definition of Technician said:


> I’m not that petty and bitter 😊
> 
> Or… Am I? 🤣


haha! Walk into the darkness alongside me brother


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Nothing to see here…. Move along
> 
> LOLLLLL
> 
> View attachment 109522
> 
> 
> View attachment 109523
> 
> 
> View attachment 109524


I love the last part „we do it for 1/3 the cost“, which basically is what everyone is saying. Cheap ads for a cheap target group


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> brother @fabi1982 loves Kenny, pass it around


Not as much as Bryan and Cole, but I can acknowledge both, the AEW tribal chief and the overall tribal chief


----------



## 3venflow

A strong walk-up led to them selling 7,000 tickets last night.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1443390168921251841


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> I love the last part „we do it for 1/3 the cost“, which basically is what everyone is saying. Cheap ads for a cheap target group


lol - if their 18-49 is a 3rd of sports, imagine how low their 50+ is


----------



## the_flock

ThunderNitro said:


> Lex's face did not go with his body. He was far from the total package.


Didn't draw a penny either.


----------



## yeahright2

bdon said:


> AEW moving tickets more than WWE has to be concerning for those in charge at WWE. Losing NYC has to be a wake up call.


Probably not. their house show sales was down even before AEW became a thing. That´s where all the Tarp jokes came from


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol - if their 18-49 is a 3rd of sports, imagine how low their 50+ is


And imagine how low the rates are if you are not a worldwide recognized brand


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> And imagine how low the rates are if you are not a worldwide recognized brand


i’ve always said this - but i think i’m somehow going to try and follow through

we should be able to get an updated ratecard, no? With up to date data. I personally would be very interested to see what the ad prices are

and i would bet wrestlings rates card is less than live sports, but the same as other reality tv based shows

does anybody have an idea where we can get these?


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i’ve always said this - but i think i’m somehow going to try and follow through
> 
> we should be able to get an updated ratecard, no? With up to date data. I personally would be very interested to see what the ad prices are
> 
> and i would bet wrestlings rates card is less than live sports, but the same as other reality tv based shows
> 
> does anybody have an idea where we can get these?


We have a lot of advertising experts here, I remember


----------



## Aedubya

1.001


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> We have a lot of advertising experts here, I remember


i’m sure somebody can help


----------



## Borko

I have a bad feeling for this week's Dynamite audience. Let's say 1.098.000 maybe. For the first time in 5 weeks it was a regular show, without anything major being announced. If they do above 1.1 it will awesome


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Nothing to see here…. Move along
> 
> LOLLLLL
> 
> View attachment 109522
> 
> 
> View attachment 109523
> 
> 
> View attachment 109524


*You do realize you helped my female viewer argument, right?*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *You do realize you helped my female viewer argument, right?*


i’ll help any argument that states ‘the key demo is important‘

male, female - who cares


----------



## 3venflow

For the first time ever (I believe), AEW did bigger attendances than WWE in September. I wouldn't expect it to be a regular thing but it's another big achievement and shows how lightyears ahead of TNA ever were AEW is. The Arthur Ashe show, Newark and All Out obviously a big part in September's success.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i’ll help any argument that states ‘the key demo is important‘
> 
> male, female - who cares


*The problem is the people you're defending ONLY point at the 18-49 male demo because WWE (minus NXT) is killing AEW in every other category.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *The problem is the people you're defending ONLY point at the 18-49 male demo because WWE (minus NXT) is killing AEW in every other category.*


?? i don’t care about wwe’s rating - think you’re thinking about somebody else

i am the ‘the key demo matters’ guy / the overall matters less

that was my whole schtick


----------



## Erik.

Think the rating will obviously be down this week. 

1,100,000+ will be a positive. Consistently staying over a million mark is very important.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ?? i don’t care about wwe’s rating - think you’re thinking about somebody else
> 
> i am the ‘the key demo matters’ guy / the overall matters less
> 
> that was my whole schtick


*That's why I said "the people you're defending." @The Definition of Technician exposed why they put so much emphasis on the 18 to 49 MALE demo.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *That's why I said "the people you're defending." @The Definition of Technician exposed why they put so much emphasis on the 18 to 49 MALE demo.*


ah, ok - i’m not really following your convo with him

i posted those pics mainly for the ‘the demos don’t matter’ people - to show it has always mattered / even in the 80s


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ah, ok - i’m not really following your convo with him
> 
> i posted those pics mainly for the ‘the demos don’t matter’ people - to show it has always mattered / even in the 80s


*My argument has always been total viewership is greater, and the focus on women wrestling is important to tap into multiple different demographics.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *My argument has always been total viewership is greater, and the focus on women wrestling is important to tap into multiple different demographics.*


aaahhh… ok…. I’m with you

well, you’re wrong - look at those ads  

okthxbyeeee


----------



## Joe Gill

most important demos in order
1)US male viewers under 50
2)US Female viewers under 50
3)International Male viewers under 50
4)International female viewers under 50
5)old geezers 

Right now AEW is doing very well with us male viewers under 50. It needs to improve US female viewers under 50. Not sure about international markets but it does feel like AEW is doing ok in countries like UK and Canada. The most irrelevant demo is old geezers who only watch wrestling out of habit and dont actually spend money on the product. Unfortunately its mostly old geezers who still watch tv so the overall viewership gets skewed. under 50 is the only demo that matters. TK needs to do focus groups and figure out how to get more female fan engagement. Expanding womens roster and pushing guys like jungleboy and sammy will help.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> aaahhh… ok…. I’m with you
> 
> well, you’re wrong - look at those ads
> 
> okthxbyeeee


*Yes, look at the giant Luger poster you posted with 43% female viewer approval.*


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *Yes, look at the giant Luger poster you posted with 43% female viewer approval.*


Who couldn’t earn a dime.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite ratings*

Viewership: 1,152,000
18-49: 0.45

#1 on cable yet again.

*Rhodes to the Top rating*

Viewership: 422,000
18-49: 0.17

#16 on cable


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Very good number, in line with a couple weeks ago. Great when considering nothing huge was advertised. Good stuff.


----------



## Mr316

Very good! 

On the other hand, Rhodes To The Top a complete disaster 😂


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Yes, look at the giant Luger poster you posted with 43% female viewer approval.*


yes - ‘43% of our audience is women’ of which 66% is in the key 18-49 demo ( as per the blurb below)

taking it back again to 18-49 being the most important metric - male or female


----------



## Mr316

Brandi and Cody’s massive egos are gonna take another hit! 😂


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite ratings*
> 
> Viewership: 1,152,000
> 18-49: 0.45
> 
> #1 on cable yet again.
> 
> *Rhodes to the Top rating*
> 
> Viewership: 422,000
> 18-49: 0.17
> 
> #16 on cable
> 
> View attachment 109599


close to what i predicted


----------



## Geert Wilders

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite ratings*
> 
> Viewership: 1,152,000
> 18-49: 0.45
> 
> #1 on cable yet again.
> 
> *Rhodes to the Top rating*
> 
> Viewership: 422,000
> 18-49: 0.17
> 
> #16 on cable
> 
> View attachment 109599


This was a "non-special" Dynamite. They have actually increased their rating.


----------



## 3venflow

Mr316 said:


> On the other hand, Rhodes To The Top a complete disaster


Well, it's better than Total Bellas was doing last season and similar numbers to Miz and Mrs last year, but with this being the pilot it's probably only going to go down like most shows do. It depends how low it bottoms out at + the demographics I guess in determining if it gets a season 2.


----------



## RainmakerV2

What was Rhodes to the Top expected to do exactly?


----------



## Mr316

3venflow said:


> Well, it's better than Total Bellas was doing last season and similar numbers to Miz and Mrs last year, but with this being the pilot it's probably only going to go down like most shows do. It depends how low it bottoms out at + the demographics I guess in determining if it gets a season 2.


Very very low number for a pilot episode. It can only lose viewers from there.


----------



## Mr316

RainmakerV2 said:


> What was Rhodes to the Top expected to do exactly?


They were probably hoping for much higher in the demo and a little over 500k.


----------



## Prosper

Good shit.


----------



## RapShepard

* Tracking Ratings With Rap Shepard*

Let's see the Rampage numbers without Punk

Rampage #1- 740k .31 demo

Dynamite 8/18- 975k .35 demo

Rampage #2 with Punk- 1.129 million .53 demo

Dynamite 8/25 with Punk- 1.172 million .48 demo

Rampage #3 no Punk- 722k .34 demo

Dynamite 9/1 - 1.047 .37 demo

Rampage #4 with Punk- 696k .30 demo

Dynamite 9/8 with Punk, Bryan, and Cole- 1.31 million .53 demo

Rampage #5 No Punk, Bryan, or Cole- 670k .27 demo

Dynamite 9/15 with Punk, Cole, and Bryan- 1.175 million .44 demo

Rampage #6 no Punk, Cole, or Bryan - 642k .28 demo

Dynamite 9/22 Bryan vs Omega- 1.273 million .48 demo

Rampage #7 Punk vs Hobbs- 640k .28 demo

Dynamite 9/30 with Punk, Bryan, and Cole- 1.152 million .45 demo


----------



## Jbardo37

That’s a very good rating.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Seems like the new low end is 1.1 million. Pretty good considering whereabouts they were in June/July.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1443670196502376463

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

Rhodes to the Top actually outdrew NXT in the 18-49 this week. The Wednesday Night Wars seem a thing of the distant past now.


----------



## CovidFan

Good rating. Nice to see them stay at 1.1m with a ho-hum Dynamite. Hopefully they can catch lightening in a bottle and surpass 1.3m at some point.


----------



## Erik.

6 straight weeks at number 1.
7th highest viewership ever. 
10 of the last 12 weeks over a million. 
#1 in 9 of those 12 weeks. 

Booming.


----------



## Smark1995

These are the numbers they were getting in July, before all the major signings. They're not horrible numbers, but I don't know how you can look at the past few weeks and not conclude that they are at the very least disappointing numbers.


----------



## Smark1995

Realistically this company has shown zero growth since the company started. But AEW fans don't want to hear the truth. They might have a much better roster than they did in the beginning but the ratings are always around the same. They're only drawing over a million because they're not up against NXT anymore otherwise they'd be drawing 700-800K still. More NXT fans watch AEW than AEW fans watch NXT, that's just the reality of it.


----------



## ThunderNitro

The AEW haters like Disco Inferno and Vince Russo keep trashing the product, yet Dynamite's audience continues to grow.


----------



## Smark1995

I think going forward they're only going to be around 1.1-1.2 million every week. If Punk & Danielson can't even bring them more than what they are now nothing will unless they start catering the show to more people. The only people interested in this show are the marks that prefer ROH type of wrestling. They're alienating a whole group of wrestling fans that don't care about meaningless long matches throughout a show & pushing small jobber looking guys as top stars.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

Smark1995 said:


> I think going forward they're only going to be around 1.1-1.2 million every week. If Punk & Danielson can't even bring them more than what they are now nothing will unless they start catering the show to more people. The only people interested in this show are the marks that prefer ROH type of wrestling. They're alienating a whole group of wrestling fans that don't care about meaningless long matches throughout a show & pushing small jobber looking guys as top stars.


What small jobber looking guys have been pushed as top stars? I see zero.


----------



## MEMS

Smark1995 said:


> I think going forward they're only going to be around 1.1-1.2 million every week. If Punk & Danielson can't even bring them more than what they are now nothing will unless they start catering the show to more people. The only people interested in this show are the marks that prefer ROH type of wrestling. They're alienating a whole group of wrestling fans that don't care about meaningless long matches throughout a show & pushing small jobber looking guys as top stars.


Take a hint. Look at the roster. This is a wrestling show for wrestling fans, for the most part. They're doing great and I'm sure when current TV deal is up they will be getting a big payday. 

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk


----------



## Smark1995

Undertaker23RKO said:


> What small jobber looking guys have been pushed as top stars? I see zero.


Darby Allin, Jungle Boy, Orange Cassidy


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

Smark1995 said:


> Darby Allin, Jungle Boy, Orange Cassidy


The only one of those guys who has been booked remotely like a top star is Darby, and he doesn't look anything like a jobber. He looks like a smaller Jeff Hardy.


----------



## CovidFan

Smark1995 said:


> Realistically this company has shown zero growth since the company started. But AEW fans don't want to hear the truth. They might have a much better roster than they did in the beginning but the ratings are always around the same. They're only drawing over a million because they're not up against NXT anymore otherwise they'd be drawing 700-800K still. More NXT fans watch AEW than AEW fans watch NXT, that's just the reality of it.


It's hard to say that it's zero growth. People tuned in for the first episode or even first few and 5 or 6 hundred thousand people decided it wasn't for them. Having 1.1m now means they've grown some fans along the way or gotten those back that decided it wasn't for them. The "well if NXT was around" argument's just a strawman and not worth talking about.

But I certainly agree that Bryan and Punk haven't had the impact that was expected.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Smark1995 said:


> Realistically this company has shown zero growth since the company started. But AEW fans don't want to hear the truth. They might have a much better roster than they did in the beginning but the ratings are always around the same. They're only drawing over a million because they're not up against NXT anymore otherwise they'd be





Smark1995 said:


> I think going forward they're only going to be around 1.1-1.2 million every week. If Punk & Danielson can't even bring them more than what they are now nothing will unless they start catering the show to more people. The only people interested in this show are the marks that prefer ROH type of wrestling. They're alienating a whole group of wrestling fans that don't care about meaningless long matches throughout a show & pushing small jobber looking guys as top stars.


There are very rarely any meaningles matches. Most matches either have some build or help build to a story during or after the match and there's a significant amount of promo time on the show.


----------



## MEMS

Smark1995 said:


> Realistically this company has shown zero growth since the company started. But AEW fans don't want to hear the truth. They might have a much better roster than they did in the beginning but the ratings are always around the same. They're only drawing over a million because they're not up against NXT anymore otherwise they'd be drawing 700-800K still. More NXT fans watch AEW than AEW fans watch NXT, that's just the reality of it.


You think when the TV guys get the numbers there is an asterisk that says "No longer against NXT"?

Nobody here would've predicted they'd be over a million viewers every Wednesday and if they did they were crazy. I don't think a lot of you understand what a big deal that number is. 


Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk


----------



## Outlaw91

Smark1995 said:


> I think going forward they're only going to be around 1.1-1.2 million every week. If Punk & Danielson can't even bring them more than what they are now nothing will unless they start catering the show to more people. The only people interested in this show are the marks that prefer ROH type of wrestling. They're alienating a whole group of wrestling fans that don't care about meaningless long matches throughout a show & pushing small jobber looking guys as top stars.


You should make a poll for this, just to be sure.


----------



## MEMS

Man if I could go back in time and say a show with Rusev and Sammy Guevara in the main event would do over one million viewers. The reactions..... Oh the reactions.....

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk


----------



## Aedubya

Wrestlinginc are absolutely gutted in how they report these ratings


----------



## RapShepard

MEMS said:


> You think when the TV guys get the numbers there is an asterisk that says "No longer against NXT"?
> 
> Nobody here would've predicted they'd be over a million viewers every Wednesday and if they did they were crazy. I don't think a lot of you understand what a big deal that number is.
> 
> 
> Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk


Yeah, but nobody thought they'd get Punk and Bryan either. The number is good though #1 is #1


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Legit DMD said:


> *1.15 million for Dynamite.*


*Nailed it!*



LifeInCattleClass said:


> yes - ‘43% of our audience is women’ of which 66% is in the key 18-49 demo ( as per the blurb below)
> 
> taking it back again to 18-49 being the most important metric - male or female


*RAW is killing them by 55% in 18-49 women.
SmackDown is killing them by 90% in 18-49 women. 
Acknowledge it.*


----------



## Sad Panda

MEMS said:


> Man if I could go back in time and say a show with Rusev and Sammy Guevara in the main event would do over one million viewers. The reactions..... Oh the reactions.....
> 
> Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk


So true, and that type of perspective is needed. Again this is a company in its infancy stages and is doing incredibly good business right now in multiple facets.

Now, to be fair, did I think the insertion of Punk and Danielson would elevate ratings slightly more than where we’re at currently? Yes I did. But it’s still very impressive what this company has done in a rather short period of time, in the era of COVID.


----------



## MEMS

Sad Panda said:


> So true, and that type of perspective is needed. Again this is a company in its infancy stages and is doing incredibly good business right now in multiple facets.
> 
> Now, to be fair, did I think the insertion of Punk and Danielson would elevate ratings slightly more than where we’re at currently? Yes I did. But it’s still very impressive what this company has done in a rather short period of time, in the era of COVID.


I can't help but wonder if the number would go up a bit more and hold if viewers thought they'd be seeing those two wrestle regularly. I absolutely love Punk and am still popping like a mark when Cult hits, but it's getting obvious they're just having him come out and do a lap or cut a promo just for the sake of saying he's there. I'm ready for him to get into a real story with a chance of him wrestling regularly. Same with Black and Andrade. 

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dark Emperor

Standard rating for Dynamite. I think 1.1 will be their new average, with a big show getting 1.20-1.30.

That rating for Rhodes show is pretty terrible though. A debut is always high due to curiosity and almost every show never beats the debut going forward. So its looking like the rating will be dropping to 300k or less. soon


----------



## RapShepard

MEMS said:


> I can't help but wonder if the number would go up a bit more and hold if viewers thought they'd be seeing those two wrestle regularly. I absolutely love Punk and am still popping like a mark when Cult hits, but it's getting obvious they're just having him come out and do a lap or cut a promo just for the sake of saying he's there. I'm ready for him to get into a real story with a chance of him wrestling regularly. Same with Black and Andrade.
> 
> Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk


1. I imagine Punk made sure he wasn't expected to be wrestling all the time like the rest of the roster he is older after all.

2. They probably believe the whole "special attraction" thing, if he doesn't wrestle a lot his matches feel more special.


----------



## Seafort

Smark1995 said:


> Realistically this company has shown zero growth since the company started. But AEW fans don't want to hear the truth. They might have a much better roster than they did in the beginning but the ratings are always around the same. They're only drawing over a million because they're not up against NXT anymore otherwise they'd be drawing 700-800K still. More NXT fans watch AEW than AEW fans watch NXT, that's just the reality of it.


How much ratings growth has Raw shown from Nov 2019? If AEW is even just holding the same ratings, in this environment they are growing.

It’s a less important component, but AEW was having a difficult time selling out in the fall of 2019 aside from the opening show. And when I say that, selling out midsized buildings. They’re doing significantly better two years later in terms of drawing people to arenas.

Finally, what was AEW’s buyrates like 18 months ago versus now?


----------



## yeahright2

I see we got some ratings..
AEW Ratings prediction game
there was a split decision, but I gave the win to one of the two (see explanation in the game thread)

Not a bad rating, but it was down as expected. TK needs to follow a strong show with a strong show. That 16 man tag was an abomination.


----------



## elo

TNT should broadcast last weeks Rhodes to the Top as the lead-in to Dynamite the following week, it would still rate better than a Jackie Chan movie from 15 years ago.

1.1M does indeed look around the baseline for Dynamite on Wednesday right now, sadly Saturday night shows start in 2 weeks and that will hurt that number when it makes it's way back to Wednesday. 

#1 on cable = happy network and happy advertisers.


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *Nailed it!
> 
> 
> RAW is killing them by 55% in 18-49 women.
> SmackDown is killing them by 90% in 18-49 women.
> Acknowledge it.*


You like shows geared to women. That’s cool, but it doesn’t appeal to me. Acknowledge it.


----------



## bdon

You want women to watch? Dumb down the show and sell a family-oriented program. Simple as that. Or go back to watching the E.


----------



## reamstyles

So children demo not important as they arent asking their dad to watch wrestling or but toy figures of this stars?


----------



## reamstyles

At least the powers that be in wrestling was able to have a wrestling show on wednesday.. I remember the hundred reasons why wwe cant go on live on wednesdays or thursdays despite potential of having no competition in cable


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

It's not the worst rating, but a drop I'd still a drop.


----------



## RainmakerV2

bdon said:


> You like shows geared to women. That’s cool, but it doesn’t appeal to me. Acknowledge it.



Women watched like crazy in the attitude era and the show wasn't dumbed down or family oriented. The top guys all had massive sex appeal. Austin, Rock, HHH, HBK, hell even Vince was a good looking cat and a billionaire. Omega, Bryan, Punk, MJF, etc, all great talents, not sexy.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Eh. I'm not going to pretend I'm some expert but 80s wrestling was full of women, children, all races and ages. It was even more bloody and violent than AEW. Those demographics are important and facilitate longterm growth. How do you reach them? No idea.


----------



## ShadowCounter

The Legit DMD said:


> *Nailed it!
> 
> 
> RAW is killing them by 55% in 18-49 women.
> SmackDown is killing them by 90% in 18-49 women.
> Acknowledge it.*


Actually acknowledge the Bellas. Total Divas and Total Bellas paid off huge for WWE with women viewers coming on board. It's why Rhodes to the Top is trying the same path.


----------



## bdon

RainmakerV2 said:


> Women watched like crazy in the attitude era and the show wasn't dumbed down or family oriented. The top guys all had massive sex appeal. Austin, Rock, HHH, HBK, hell even Vince was a good looking cat and a billionaire. Omega, Bryan, Punk, MJF, etc, all great talents, not sexy.


Oh cool! We can also have Bra and Panties matches with titties out constantly. Fuck the wrestling. All about the sex appeal.

Fuck the stupid, low-hanging fruit that was the Attitude Era. Everyone wants to cry about AEW just being PWG with a budget. Well, mf’ers guess what!? Attitude Era was just ECW with a fucking budget.

Fuck Vince and the ignorant fucks who started watching wrestling in the late 90s just to see puppies. I want WRESTLING.


----------



## reamstyles

But unfortunately for some they see wrestling as so fake and just for the sake of "storyline" that makes them stay, they watch wrestling to see the latest look of their favorite wrestler for some their new catch phrase/pick up lines that they can apply to school for teens..

CM Punk become so over not because fully of his si called in ring talent but because of his look and his persona that people wanted to emulate..


----------



## yeahright2

bdon said:


> Oh cool! We can also have Bra and Panties matches with titties out constantly. Fuck the wrestling. All about the sex appeal.
> 
> Fuck the stupid, low-hanging fruit that was the Attitude Era. Everyone wants to cry about AEW just being PWG with a budget. Well, mf’ers guess what!? Attitude Era was just ECW with a fucking budget.
> 
> Fuck Vince and the ignorant fucks who started watching wrestling in the late 90s just to see puppies. I want WRESTLING.


I´d be okay with bra and panties matches coming back. Gives the girls that look hot but isn´t really talented something to do.


----------



## Randy Lahey

0.45 is a very solid rating for a mostly nothing show. AEW is trending up, Raw is trending down, and for sure within 6-8 months Dynamite should be consistently ahead in Demo even when MNF falls off, since Raw has barely gotten any bounce after football ends.


----------



## DaSlacker

They need to stop announcing matches unless it's a gimmick match. Or a part time household name guy like Punk or Danielson wrestling. Or something unpredictable. 

Bobby Fish vs Sammy Guevara would be more exciting if you're watching live and a new guy shows up. For a moment you think he can win. Announcing it in advance kills the surprise and because you have time to internalise it, you can accurately predict the outcome. 

Just say that Guevara and Shida will be in action. Announce the 10 man tag and Casino Ladder. Reads as an even more interesting episode of wrestling.


----------



## RainmakerV2

bdon said:


> Oh cool! We can also have Bra and Panties matches with titties out constantly. Fuck the wrestling. All about the sex appeal.
> 
> Fuck the stupid, low-hanging fruit that was the Attitude Era. Everyone wants to cry about AEW just being PWG with a budget. Well, mf’ers guess what!? Attitude Era was just ECW with a fucking budget.
> 
> Fuck Vince and the ignorant fucks who started watching wrestling in the late 90s just to see puppies. I want WRESTLING.


Lol relax. Simply pointing out most of the people AEW feature aren't what most women would find sexy, so they do low numbers with women. It's really simple. If you're fine with that, that's cool lol.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1443758796220809224

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

1104 low. Good stuff.

Miro/Sammy drew very well too. Third highest segment of the night. Nice to see.


----------



## THANOS

RainmakerV2 said:


> Lol relax. Simply pointing out most of the people AEW feature aren't what most women would find sexy, so they do low numbers with women. It's really simple. If you're fine with that, that's cool lol.


I mean Wardlow is featured nearly as much as MJF is. Adam Cole likely has sex appeal to women. 

There's a decent amount of attractive male and female talent. The females are obvious but here is a list of male talent that could be seen as attractive, as, believe it or not, not as many women as you would expect like inflated muscles:


Jungle Boy
Hangman
Cody Rhodes
Darby Allen
Orange Cassidy
Wardlow
Sammy Guevara
Andrade


----------



## THANOS

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1443758796220809224
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Haha I love reading this weekly since Bryan has come over. 

Reminds me of 2013/2014 when he was outdrawing everyone, no matter if they were HHH, Orton, Taker, HBK, Cena or Lesnar. Those quarterly breakdowns always tell all. 

Bryan is the biggest draw in AEW for North American viewers and that's undisputable now.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Nailed it!
> 
> 
> RAW is killing them by 55% in 18-49 women.
> SmackDown is killing them by 90% in 18-49 women.
> Acknowledge it.*


Sure, why wouldn’t I?

you’re so weird sometimes


----------



## Botchy SinCara

The Legit DMD said:


> *Nailed it!
> 
> 
> RAW is killing them by 55% in 18-49 women.
> SmackDown is killing them by 90% in 18-49 women.
> Acknowledge it.*


Women views = 1/16th other views


----------



## Prized Fighter

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1443758796220809224
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Every quarter with at least one of the young "4 pillars" guys gained viewers. That is a great sign.


----------



## Mister Sinister

The central issue here is that they dropped the ball on continuity. Andrade, PAC, Lucha Bros, Christian and Black all have no story. This week should have been treated like a post-ppv show in which all new angles begin-- more story than wrestling. But the show opened with a 15 minute showcase. The whole show should have been a tease for the face to face with Bryan Danielson and the Elite. You have stars with Punk, Sting and Bryan. Use them in the main event the way that pro wrestling used to use the main event. Goldberg, Austin, Rock, Sting and Hogan wrestled the main event. In the MNW, you had to keep watching to the end to get to the match with the stars.


----------



## fabi1982

Is there any way we get the dvr numbers now? Would be interesting to see, if this is the 1m viewers who watched like a year ago (just much more on DVR) or if this is real growth and the DVR numbers are up the same. Strange that none of the "wrestling journalists" are parading this around, like they did a year ago, because this would mean a 1.5+m of DVR viewers.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Is there any way we get the dvr numbers now? Would be interesting to see, if this is the 1m viewers who watched like a year ago (just much more on DVR) or if this is real growth and the DVR numbers are up the same. Strange that none of the "wrestling journalists" are parading this around, like they did a year ago, because this would mean a 1.5+m of DVR viewers.


I think you’d be spot-on

1.5m DVR sounds about right - which means its really just the same audience


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I think you’d be spot-on
> 
> 1.5m DVR sounds about right - which means its really just the same audience


"Sounds about right" is not good enough for me  I need real numbers, or I even take numbers from Dave


----------



## the_flock

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite ratings*
> 
> Viewership: 1,152,000
> 18-49: 0.45
> 
> #1 on cable yet again.
> 
> *Rhodes to the Top rating*
> 
> Viewership: 422,000
> 18-49: 0.17
> 
> #16 on cable
> 
> View attachment 109599


Down 121k viewers from the week before, down in AEW fans beloved demo. 

Those expensive acquisitions are working out well....


----------



## the_flock

3venflow said:


> Well, it's better than Total Bellas was doing last season and similar numbers to Miz and Mrs last year, but with this being the pilot it's probably only going to go down like most shows do. It depends how low it bottoms out at + the demographics I guess in determining if it gets a season 2.


Yeah this will sink to 1 to 200k.

Total Bellas a few years ago was hitting a million viewers.


----------



## the_flock

MEMS said:


> You think when the TV guys get the numbers there is an asterisk that says "No longer against NXT"?
> 
> Nobody here would've predicted they'd be over a million viewers every Wednesday and if they did they were crazy. I don't think a lot of you understand what a big deal that number is.
> 
> 
> Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk


No but there will be an asterisk which says AEW isn't any better than they were 2 years ago despite spending tens of millions of dollars on talent.


----------



## the_flock

Smark1995 said:


> These are the numbers they were getting in July, before all the major signings. They're not horrible numbers, but I don't know how you can look at the past few weeks and not conclude that they are at the very least disappointing numbers.


Anything below 1.3 is disappointing.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

yeahright2 said:


> I´d be okay with bra and panties matches coming back. Gives the girls that look hot but isn´t really talented something to do.


Mate half the reason I watch NXT is because Mandy and her crew make me pop a chub, that's all that matters to me. It gets me to watch doesn't it.


----------



## the_flock

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Very good number, in line with a couple weeks ago. Great when considering nothing huge was advertised. Good stuff.


So when WWE doesn't announce anything huge and is a normal show, why are people on here celebrating do people on here celebrate a win for AEW who have a special show.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> "Sounds about right" is not good enough for me  I need real numbers, or I even take numbers from Dave


Lol, you trust Dave??


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Another very solid rating. Couldn't envisage them being consistently no. 1 ranked at the start of the year.

Bottom lines and top lines have been improving progressively. Throw the merch, youtube and ticket sales growth in there and I'm liking the trajectory AEW is on.



the_flock said:


> Anything below 1.3 is disappointing.


Your back must hurt from all the goal post shifting


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Lol, you trust Dave??


That was a joke, but I trust him more than the ad specialists here in the forum


----------



## Jonhern

Average attendance for this summer. WWE with Cena plus SummerSlam dominated early but AEW won out in September. 

chart from wrestletix Twitter


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1443758796220809224
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*That's a very good and stable graph. It's great to see Adam Cole drawing as a solo act instead of being behind the Young Bucks in a shitty tag match. Sammy and Miro increasing viewers by 34k in the main event is also a great sign, especially after the Sting segment.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> That was a joke, but I trust him more than the ad specialists here in the forum


haha! Fair enough


----------



## Randy Lahey

Sammy doing that large of demo to end the show is a great sign. It also shows that very likely the ladies will never be put into the main event spot given the low demo Brit/Soho did last week compared to the rest of their show.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Randy Lahey said:


> It also shows that very likely the ladies will never be put into the main event spot given the low demo Brit/Soho did last week compared to the rest of their show.


* Throw this one in the massive pile of terrible women's wrestling takes that won't age well.*


----------



## MEMS

the_flock said:


> No but there will be an asterisk which says AEW isn't any better than they were 2 years ago despite spending tens of millions of dollars on talent.


You don't think they're averaging more viewers than they were 2 years ago?

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk


----------



## the_flock

MEMS said:


> You don't think they're averaging more viewers than they were 2 years ago?
> 
> Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk


Not for the amount of money which has been spent on talent.


----------



## MEMS

the_flock said:


> Not for the amount of money which has been spent on talent.


It's pro wrestling in 2021. A company that's 2 years old. What numbers were you expecting with all these signings?

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk


----------



## the_flock

MEMS said:


> It's pro wrestling in 2021. A company that's 2 years old. What numbers were you expecting with all these signings?
> 
> Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk


It doesn't matter how long the company has been going for, that's a cop out retort. 

Well bare in mind people were expecting 1.6 to 1.8 last week. Which didn't happen. Then they were expecting 1.3 every week. Getting 1.1 is way below where they should be at.

I think 1.3 with the latest additions would be the figure they should be aiming for every week.


----------



## DaSlacker

the_flock said:


> It doesn't matter how long the company has been going for, that's a cop out retort.
> 
> Well bare in mind people were expecting 1.6 to 1.8 last week. Which didn't happen. Then they were expecting 1.3 every week. Getting 1.1 is way below where they should be at.
> 
> I think 1.3 with the latest additions would be the figure they should be aiming for every week.


Maybe. But bear in mind Raw is struggling to hit above 1.75 on the fall out show from a PPV. That's with the top face (on Raw) vs the top heel, in a cage match. A no DQ title match for the mid card title involving former world champ. Styles vs Riddle (former world champ vs upper mid card guy). The women's champ facing a newbie in the midst of a push. Six man tag with former world champs on opposing teams. Basically they are having to use most of their roster and give several PPV level matches to hit that number on a night and brand synonymous with wrestling. 

Apart from the opener and TNT title match, AEW was running with a more reserved show. Moxley and Darby in a pure squash. Cody and Lee Johnson (low card) vs Martin and Sydal (low card) . A Dark Order showpiece opposite other low card guys. Two mid card women vs two mid card women in a throwaway tag match. 

Might sound like whataboutism but it's not a knock on either promotion. It's just symptomatic of where cable TV and wrestling is in 2021.


----------



## 3venflow

People need to stop measuring the success or failure of a company solely on the P2+ metric in an era of delayed viewing, streaming and cord cutting. Smackdown's average viewership in 2021 is below every other year (including pandemic 2020), yet is probably better as a product than it was in 2018 and 2019.

Warner are delighted with AEW's performances and AEW will get an improved deal at the next round of negotiations. They have added two related properties (Rampage and Rhodes to the Top) and an interview from their exec said they have five or six more projects in the work that will air across Warner's networks.

AEW are up in virtually other metric such as live attendances (Grand Slam was a million dollar gate! Even WCW's famous Georgia Dome show wasn't a million dollar gate despite the huge attendance), social media growth, merchandise sales and general brand awareness.

It's undeniable that AEW has been a success, in a challenging climate no less, and is currently in a good moment. It has already achieved much of what TNA failed to do in all those years. Their *average* attendance in September was higher than *any single TNA show*.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

AEW won't beat NXT in the ratings
Ok they did but they're incapable of growth from the 750-800k or so hardocre, indy neckbeards who don't know what proper wrestling is
Ok they did outgrow that but they'll never hit a million again
Ok they hit a million for a special show, but they can't do it consistently
Ok they can do over a million consistently, be rated number one regularly with growing demos and pop 1.3 million for a big show - but they should be doing that for every show otherwise it's disappointing

Yawn


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

AEW not doing better at this point says more about the ‘fans’ than the company

consistent shows, big stars, big moments

but some people are obvs lapsed for life or is so tied to wwe they do not want to try anything else

no other reason raw should be getting more than dynamite


----------



## Erik.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> AEW not doing better at this point says more about the ‘fans’ than the company
> 
> consistent shows, big stars, big moments
> 
> but some people are obvs lapsed for life or is so tied to wwe they do not want to try anything else
> 
> no other reason raw should be getting more than dynamite


If anything, Raw beating Dynamite in ratings tells you how stupid ratings talk really is. 

Raw isn't better than Dynamite. Yet more people watch it. 

A bit like how McDonald's makes more money than the burger joint in town, despite being nowhere near as good in quality.


----------



## 3venflow

WOR: "The 9/27 RAW this past week drew 5,473 with 3,700 paid. In this case, U.S. Bank Arena, the main building in the city, would not rent to AEW because of its relationship with WWE, so AEW booked the secondary arena and 19 days earlier did 6,500 paid."

Moxley's home area.

BTW, if anyone has any requests on here for ticket sale info, let me know. I subscribe to WrestleTix's Patreon and he has a ton of good data.


----------



## thorn123

LifeInCattleClass said:


> AEW not doing better at this point says more about the ‘fans’ than the company
> 
> consistent shows, big stars, big moments
> 
> but some people are obvs lapsed for life or is so tied to wwe they do not want to try anything else
> 
> no other reason raw should be getting more than dynamite


This is what I have been saying … lots of loyal WWE fans won’t give it a go and lots of lapsed fans won’t give it a FAIR go.


----------



## 3venflow

Does Tony Khan buy advertising during RAW and Smackdown? You wonder how many 'casual' viewers of WWE are even aware AEW exists so throwing it in their faces with aggressive advertising might bring in a few extra total viewers.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> If anything, Raw beating Dynamite in ratings tells you how stupid ratings talk really is.
> 
> Raw isn't better than Dynamite. Yet more people watch it.
> 
> A bit like how McDonald's makes more money than the burger joint in town, despite being nowhere near as good in quality.


very very true


----------



## CovidFan

3venflow said:


> Does Tony Khan buy advertising during RAW and Smackdown? You wonder how many 'casual' viewers of WWE are even aware AEW exists so throwing it in their faces with aggressive advertising might bring in a few extra total viewers.


I really don't think Fox or USA are going to be down for advertising a show on TNT


----------



## bdon

the_flock said:


> Not for the amount of money which has been spent on talent.


You realize you aren’t supposed to make money at first, right? You invest, earn, and reinvest.

Talk in 5 years or stfu


----------



## bdon

Pentagon Senior said:


> AEW won't beat NXT in the ratings
> Ok they did but they're incapable of growth from the 750-800k or so hardocre, indy neckbeards who don't know what proper wrestling is
> Ok they did outgrow that but they'll never hit a million again
> Ok they hit a million for a special show, but they can't do it consistently
> Ok they can do over a million consistently, be rated number one regularly with growing demos and pop 1.3 million for a big show - but they should be doing that for every show otherwise it's disappointing
> 
> Yawn


Like clockwork.


----------



## the_flock

bdon said:


> You realize you aren’t supposed to make money at first, right? You invest, earn, and reinvest.
> 
> Talk in 5 years or stfu


5 years haha. OK then. Don't mention ratings for 5 years.


----------



## Kishido

Everything above 1 million is great


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> You realize you aren’t supposed to make money at first, right? You invest, earn, and reinvest.
> 
> Talk in 5 years or stfu


How do you „reinvest“ when you dont make money? Just curious if I do business just wrong?!


----------



## Pentagon Senior

bdon said:


> Like clockwork.


"Ok, now they're beating Raw but that means nothing - Smackdown the A show"


----------



## the_flock

3venflow said:


> Grand Slam was a million dollar gate! Even WCW's famous Georgia Dome show wasn't a million dollar gate despite the huge attendance)


If you're talking about Goldberg/Hogan, didn't they sell nearly 40k tickets with only 3 days notice. That's bigger than AEW will ever manage.


----------



## 3venflow

Who says they aren't making money? TV contract, good attendances, big merchandise sales and record PPV buyrates two PPVs running. They obviously have a considerable wage bill plus Tony has invested in the video game, but they are certainly making money.

Whether they're currently in the red or black we can't know without seeing the books, but returning to live shows will have helped. They've done four 10k+ attendances recently and sold more tickets than WWE in September, with a $1m+ gate at Arthur Ashe, something even WCW never accomplished apparently. Over $200,000 worth of merchandise sold at The First Dance, which is huge for a non-WWE event.



the_flock said:


> If you're talking about Goldberg/Hogan, didn't they sell nearly 40k tickets with only 3 days notice. That's bigger than AEW will ever manage.


They sold 35,500 tickets (6k comped) and yes that was great, but tickets were cheaper per-head then. No one is going to argue they're bigger than peak WCW, but the fact they can do these type of gates is remarkable. TNA never got in the same ball park and had years to do it.


----------



## bdon

fabi1982 said:


> How do you „reinvest“ when you dont make money? Just curious if I do business just wrong?!


They could have not signed anyone else and made profits on ticket sales, merch, ad money, tv money, and the like. When you open a business, the rule of thumb is to not turn a profit for 5 years, because you have to reinvest every dollar back into the business.


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> They could have not signed anyone else and made profits on ticket sales, merch, ad money, tv money, and the like. When you open a business, the rule of thumb is to not turn a profit for 5 years, because you have to reinvest every dollar back into the business.


But then your comment was not correct, you need to make money to reinvest. But even your „rule of thumb“ is ot correct. You dont have to reinvest 100%. Some companies invest alot and still be profitable at the end of the year. You just read the wrong economy books bdon


----------



## bdon

fabi1982 said:


> But then your comment was not correct, you need to make money to reinvest. But even your „rule of thumb“ is ot correct. You dont have to reinvest 100%. Some companies invest alot and still be profitable at the end of the year. You just read the wrong economy books bdon


I’m sure they’re not going broke, and TK is taking some profits. Lol


----------



## cai1981

Undertaker23RKO said:


> What small jobber looking guys have been pushed as top stars? I see zero.


Jungle Boy, Orange Cassidy, THE YOUNG BUCKS (look like the Hardy Boyz did in the mid 90s when they were jobbers), Darby Allin...


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> I’m sure they’re not going broke, and TK is taking some profits. Lol


Me too, thats why I challanged your comment, because it was wrong


----------



## fabi1982

cai1981 said:


> Jungle Boy, Orange Cassidy, THE YOUNG BUCKS (look like the Hardy Boyz did in the mid 90s when they were jobbers), Darby Allin...


Dont forget Dante Martin.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

cai1981 said:


> Jungle Boy, Orange Cassidy, THE YOUNG BUCKS (look like the Hardy Boyz did in the mid 90s when they were jobbers), Darby Allin...


Jungle Boy isn't remotely treated as a top guy. OC has had a bigger push but in general isn't pushed as a top guy either. The Bucks I'll give you but they are a tag, not faces of the company. Darby looks nothing like a jobber.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> AEW not doing better at this point says more about the ‘fans’ than the company
> 
> consistent shows, big stars, big moments
> 
> but some people are obvs lapsed for life or is so tied to wwe they do not want to try anything else
> 
> no other reason raw should be getting more than dynamite






Erik. said:


> If anything, Raw beating Dynamite in ratings tells you how stupid ratings talk really is.
> 
> Raw isn't better than Dynamite. Yet more people watch it.
> 
> A bit like how McDonald's makes more money than the burger joint in town, despite being nowhere near as good in quality.


Lmao at blaming fans


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

the_flock said:


> If you're talking about Goldberg/Hogan, didn't they sell nearly 40k tickets with only 3 days notice. That's bigger than AEW will ever manage.


yeah and on a night with horrific weather if I recall correctly. JJ Dillon just announces the biggest match in their history casually on Thunder lol 

edit again: wait that was the right thread. my ass is tripping


----------



## the_flock

GNKenny said:


> yeah and on a night with horrific weather if I recall correctly. JJ Dillon just announces the biggest match in their history casually on Thunder lol


Just goes to show how much money WCW left on the table. They could have easily sold 80k. Goldberg was printing money for them.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

the_flock said:


> Just goes to show how much money WCW left on the table. They could have easily sold 80k. Goldberg was printing money for them.


They did a lot of silly little things. Like having the January 4th Fingerpoke Nitro in the Georgia Dome and Starrcade the previous week at the MCI Center. I can't remember if they were signed to certain buildings for years or not. Some shows ran the same arena every year like Starrcade and Halloween Havoc. idk if that's even a thing or they just did it out of convenience.


----------



## the_flock

GNKenny said:


> They did a lot of silly little things. Like having the January 4th Fingerpoke Nitro in the Georgia Dome and Starrcade the previous night at the MCI Center. I can't remember if they were signed to certain buildings for years or not. Some shows ran the same arena every year like Starrcade and Halloween Havoc. idk if that's even a thing or they just did it out of convenience.


Didn't the Jan 4th show with Nash/Goldberg do more tickets than Goldberg/Hogan though. 

It's funny, even to this day, Bischoff is still adamant that TV is more important than actually making bank. If he had actually concentrated on making bank, instead of tv ratings, WCW would have survived. 

Yeah you're right, I don't know if they had multi year deals in place with certain venues or not, but TNA made the same mistake, same small venues for PPV, instead of hitting the road.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

the_flock said:


> Didn't the Jan 4th show with Nash/Goldberg do more tickets than Goldberg/Hogan though.
> 
> It's funny, even to this day, Bischoff is still adamant that TV is more important than actually making bank. If he had actually concentrated on making bank, instead of tv ratings, WCW would have survived.
> 
> Yeah you're right, I don't know if they had multi year deals in place with certain venues or not, but TNA made the same mistake, same small venues for PPV, instead of hitting the road.


They sold slightly more tickets yeah. They were still red hot in January 1999. Yeah the WWF was hotter but if they didn't completely lose their minds so fast they might have been okay. They had problems that'd have been building for years but Nash's booking in the coming months was especially bad. How he became booker at all is crazy.

You're right about Bischoff but management as a whole was a big problem. Just look at how they managed to lose money off an extremely successful tour in Australia in late 2000.


----------



## RLT1981

look I support AEW and want them to do good but i'm not going to live in denial like most AEW fans like to do.

the fact is pushing a pure wrestling product will never bring in the casuals if they want casuals they going to have do more over the top stuff and forcus on promos cause thats what it will take otherwise AEW will always be a nickle product drawing what they are now with no room to grow.


----------



## DaSlacker

The way WCW did Goldberg vs Hogan was stupid. But it's often overlooked how the next PPV - Bash at the Beach - was the second most purchased PPV in company history. So regardless of whatever they did 1998, business boomed. Same with the fingerpoke of doom. The Superbrawl PPV, held 6 weeks later, was the 4th most purchased PPV. 

The wheels didn't come off until the spring and was more systemic than one event.


----------



## Not Lying

fabi1982 said:


> Me too, thats why I challanged your comment, because it was wrong


Why is it wrong? Because you convinced yourself they’re not making any money despite evidence to the contrary? 🤣


----------



## CovidFan

the_flock said:


> If you're talking about Goldberg/Hogan, didn't they sell nearly 40k tickets with only 3 days notice. That's bigger than AEW will ever manage.


There's a bit of revisionist history here. Do you actually believe that they had only sold 1k of the 41k tickets bought with three days left in July of 1998? Please remember how hot 1998 was. The real story's that they only sold a few more thousand after the announcement and I think most of those would've been gotten anyways.

And we don't know what AEW will manage. Maybe they'll get there some day.

I know you love WCW and for some reason hate AEW but AEW's doing fine and not going away anytime soon even if there's no wrestling boom coming.


----------



## bdon

I wa


fabi1982 said:


> Me too, thats why I challanged your comment, because it was wrong


s arguing against the main point that they somehow are wasting money by adding Punk and Bryan yet not doing massively bigger numbers.

As if competing with Raw for the demo isn’t a big deal.


----------



## 3venflow

Over 6,100 tickets sold for Philly next Wednesday and they've opened three more sections so capacity is now at just under 8,000. Looks like another strong crowd and with it being Philly they'll be hot.

They have also sold 4,228 tickets for the Indiana show on November 10th in the presale + day one, which is already more than what they drew in total there back on 11/20/19.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Lmao at blaming fans


do you have a better reason why 100% of people who watch Raw don’t watch Dynamite?


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> do you have a better reason why 100% of people who watch Raw don’t watch Dynamite?


Maybe they like the wrestling and characters better[emoji2379]. If you're looking for big meaty men slapping meat Raw is dripping in that. Maybe they like the women more surprisingly Charlotte has a lot of fans and so does Alexa's current character. I'd say AEW doesn't have anybody as fun as Riddle character wise.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Maybe they like the wrestling and characters better[emoji2379]. If you're looking for big meaty men slapping meat Raw is dripping in that. Maybe they like the women more surprisingly Charlotte has a lot of fans and so does Alexa's current character. I'd say AEW doesn't have anybody as fun as Riddle character wise.


so the quality programming and characters





Lol


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> so the quality programming and characters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol


I mean take your personal bias out. Maybe some folk don't think AEW is the best thing smoking like you lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> I mean take your personal bias out. Maybe some folk don't think AEW is the best thing smoking like you lol


right, so its still the fans

they prefer the quality programming and characters of raw

so the only way to get them is to sign the quality characters away from raw


----------



## fabi1982

The Definition of Technician said:


> Why is it wrong? Because you convinced yourself they’re not making any money despite evidence to the contrary? 🤣


No, because you only can invest money when you make a profit. When they are not making money, there is no way they can „reinvest“ like bdon said.


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> I wa
> 
> s arguing against the main point that they somehow are wasting money by adding Punk and Bryan yet not doing massively bigger numbers.
> 
> As if competing with Raw for the demo isn’t a big deal.


Thats fine and all, but then argue with valid reasoning. Saying „they wont make a profit, they will reinvest“ is just not correct.


----------



## the_flock

RapShepard said:


> Maybe they like the wrestling and characters better[emoji2379]. If you're looking for big meaty men slapping meat Raw is dripping in that. Maybe they like the women more surprisingly Charlotte has a lot of fans and so does Alexa's current character. I'd say AEW doesn't have anybody as fun as Riddle character wise.


I think everyone has come to terms that Riddle is going to be world champion before too long. I would argue he's more over than anybody in AEW right now.


----------



## Erik.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> right, so its still the fans
> 
> they prefer the quality programming and characters of raw
> 
> so the only way to get them is to sign the quality characters away from raw


NO. MOAR. WWE. SIGNINGZ


----------



## the_flock

3venflow said:


> Who says they aren't making money? TV contract, good attendances, big merchandise sales and record PPV buyrates two PPVs running. They obviously have a considerable wage bill plus Tony has invested in the video game, but they are certainly making money.
> 
> Whether they're currently in the red or black we can't know without seeing the books, but returning to live shows will have helped. They've done four 10k+ attendances recently and sold more tickets than WWE in September, with a $1m+ gate at Arthur Ashe, something even WCW never accomplished apparently. Over $200,000 worth of merchandise sold at The First Dance, which is huge for a non-WWE event.
> 
> 
> 
> They sold 35,500 tickets (6k comped) and yes that was great, but tickets were cheaper per-head then. No one is going to argue they're bigger than peak WCW, but the fact they can do these type of gates is remarkable. TNA never got in the same ball park and had years to do it.


TNA was ran like a small time company, they needed someone in earlier who could open bigger doors for them. They were too scared of expanding. Someone like Heyman if they took him up on his offer would have had them even bigger. 

It's a bit like ECW, they could sell bigger arenas, but with that comes additional costs which they couldn't afford to do. 

With that being said, we live in a different age, we didn't have the amount of social media we have now back then. Someone like Heyman was up to date with modern trends back then, I imagine if we had the amount of platforms we have now, back then, ECW and TNA would have been 10x bigger than they were. 

It's a bit like people saying (sport players) are better now than back then, without considering the fact that training schedules and techniques and dietary needs are taken care of individually, more advanced equipment is available, different rules and technology applies. 

As I've said before, it would be very interesting to see AEWs books. Yes they have good merch and ticket sales, however I think production costs will be high. We know the game cost 8 figures and has already gone down as a loss, as reported everywhere. Wages will be sky high.


----------



## bdon

fabi1982 said:


> Thats fine and all, but then argue with valid reasoning. Saying „they wont make a profit, they will reinvest“ is just not correct.


You’re arguing semantics of the wording used when it was clear what I was saying.


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> You’re arguing semantics of the wording used when it was clear what I was saying.


Not to me, sorry. I read just your comment and it was clear it was not correct, so I told you. Now you can say „yeah this was not correct“ or argue that „everyone knew what I was saying“. Its just not possible to reinvest, when you dont make a profit. I dont argue anything else you said.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Not to me, sorry. I read just your comment and it was clear it was not correct, so I told you. Now you can say „yeah this was not correct“ or argue that „everyone knew what I was saying“. Its just not possible to reinvest, when you dont make a profit. I dont argue anything else you said.


it is possible to reinvest if you don't make a profit 

you have 100m capital investment

you sign 100 wrestlers for 5 year contracts at 50m / so you are in a minus of -50m divided by 5 years - (-10m a year on the books, depending on your accountant)

now you run shows - the cost of a show is 10k and you make 20k per show from tickets, merch, and sodas sold 

you take your 10k profit you made (but your business is still 50m in the red) and re-invest the whole amount in advertising the next show

this is a simple example, but you can definitely reinvest if your company does not make a overall profit - especially if you have a 100m capital investment that will put you in the red for a long time


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it is possible to reinvest if you don't make a profit
> 
> you have 100m capital investment
> 
> you sign 100 wrestlers for 5 year contracts at 50m / so you are in a minus of -50m divided by 5 years - (-10m a year on the books, depending on your accountant)
> 
> now you run shows - the cost of a show is 10k and you make 20k per show from tickets, merch, and sodas sold
> 
> you take your 10k profit you made (but your business is still 50m in the red) and re-invest the whole amount in advertising the next show
> 
> this is a simple example, but you can definitely reinvest if your company does not make a overall profit - especially if you have a 100m capital investment that will put you in the red for a long time


You mean costs of 10m and revenue of 5m gives you a profit of 5m in a business sense? Just because you have vc in your company doesnt mean you can ignore the base of economics. I know where you come from and I know you are right with what you want to say, it just doesnt mean „you dont make profit for 5 years, you have to reinvest“. A company makes profit when the costs are lower than the income. A company doesnt make 100m profit when someone adds 100m to your company, because they dont „give“ you the money, they buy a part of your company.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> You mean costs of 10m and revenue of 5m gives you a profit of 5m in a business sense? Just because you have vc in your company doesnt mean you can ignore the base of economics. I know where you come from and I know you are right with what you want to say, it just doesnt mean „you dont make profit for 5 years, you have to reinvest“. A company makes profit when the costs are lower than the income. A company doesnt make 100m profit when someone adds 100m to your company, because they dont „give“ you the money, they buy a part of your company.


yeah, no - i know the 100m is not profit

i’m saying you can reinvest the 10k profit from the show while still being in an overall red


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yeah, no - i know the 100m is not profit
> 
> i’m saying you can reinvest the 10k profit from the show while still being in an overall red


Reinvest is just not the correct word here imo, its just using money for your daily business (your example of advertising the next show), if you call that reinvest, paying your employees is also reinvesting?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Reinvest is just not the correct word here imo, its just using money for your daily business (your example of advertising the next show), if you call that reinvest, paying your employees is also reinvesting?


haha, no - paying employees is a cost as you know

and you’re right, advertising was a bad example, that is also a cost

ok, if you did 100 shows and made 10k profit each = 1m

you can take the 1m and reinvest in a new games department, while your mother business is still in the red 

lol, its semantics though - it comes down to ‘what do you mean by reinvest’ - but i think we’re all talking about the same thing anyway


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yeah, no - i know the 100m is not profit
> 
> i’m saying you can reinvest the 10k profit from the show while still being in an overall red


This


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> haha, no - paying employees is a cost as you know
> 
> and you’re right, advertising was a bad example, that is also a cost
> 
> ok, if you did 100 shows and made 10k profit each = 1m
> 
> you can take the 1m and reinvest in a new games department, while your mother business is still in the red
> 
> lol, its semantics though - it comes down to ‘what do you mean by reinvest’ - but i think we’re all talking about the same thing anyway


Yes you are right


----------



## bdon

The budget expanding with the growing business is reinvesting for me. We heard how AEW was set to profitable within year 1.

So instead of pocketing the cash, you can use that money to reinvest by expanding the budget you had allotted for talent salaries, more expensive advertising, etc.

Either way, the guy’s argument pretending AEW made a mistake in adding Punk and Bryan to “only” do a consistent 1.1m misses the mark.


----------



## thorn123

RapShepard said:


> Lmao at blaming fans


It’s 100% the fans.
I have been a wwe super fan since 1984 and would defend them with my last breath. They are embedded in my childhood, adolescence and adulthood. 
But AEW has been considerably better than recent years of WWE. I am probably the closest thing to an objective opinion there is.
IMO lots of loyal WWE fans won’t give AEW a go and lots of lapsed fans are looking for AEW to replicate the attitude era (or which ever era represents their formative years). AEW don’t do that so they either don’t stick around or don’t tune in.
I know people have their opinions and if they prefer the fed, that’s great, but I firmly believe a large portion of fans don’t give AEW a fair go. If they did, they would hang around because - whilst not perfect - it’s very good.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> so the quality programming and characters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol






LifeInCattleClass said:


> right, so its still the fans
> 
> they prefer the quality programming and characters of raw
> 
> so the only way to get them is to sign the quality characters away from raw





DaveRA said:


> It’s 100% the fans.
> I have been a wwe super fan since 1984 and would defend them with my last breath. They are embedded in my childhood, adolescence and adulthood.
> But AEW has been considerably better than recent years of WWE. I am probably the closest thing to an objective opinion there is.
> IMO lots of loyal WWE fans won’t give AEW a go and lots of lapsed fans are looking for AEW to replicate the attitude era (or which ever era represents their formative years). AEW don’t do that so they either don’t stick around or don’t tune in.
> I know people have their opinions and if they prefer the fed, that’s great, but I firmly believe a large portion of fans don’t give AEW a fair go. If they did, they would hang around because - whilst not perfect - it’s very good.


Why is it that when WWE doesn't provide what wrestling fans want it's on WWE, but when AEW doesn't provide what wrestling fans want it's on the fans?


----------



## thorn123

RapShepard said:


> Why is it that when WWE doesn't provide what wrestling fans want it's on WWE, but when AEW doesn't provide what wrestling fans want it's on the fans?


Because we (I) have given WWE 37 years of service and can spot when the quality declines. If AEW declines I would call them out too. In AEW’s first year I gave them mainly 6/10 But now they hover around 7.5/10.

I think it is impossible for AEW to meet the expectations of some fans.

😊


----------



## RapShepard

DaveRA said:


> Because we (I) have given WWE 37 years of service and can spot when the quality declines. If AEW declines I would call them out too. In AEW’s first year I gave them mainly 6/10 But now they hover around 7.5/10.
> 
> I think it is impossible for AEW to meet the expectations of some fans.


I'd agree AEW is entertaining. I'm just saying it's novel to not even consider that for some AEW isn't providing wrestling they want to see. Just as surely there's the "only Stamford can do wrestling right crowd" there's certainly a bigger "neither Stamford or Jacksonville" are doing wrestling right crowd.


----------



## thorn123

RapShepard said:


> I'd agree AEW is entertaining. I'm just saying it's novel to not even consider that for some AEW isn't providing wrestling they want to see. Just as surely there's the "only Stamford can do wrestling right crowd" there's certainly a bigger "neither Stamford or Jacksonville" are doing wrestling right crowd.


I agree with you … AEW is not providing the majority of fans with what they want.
I am just saying it’s good, and worth a try. To me, the fans are missing out.


----------



## RapShepard

DaveRA said:


> I agree with you … AEW is not providing the majority of fans with what they want.
> I am just saying it’s good, and worth a try. To me, the fans are missing out.


Wrestling in general is worth a shot to somebody being fair. But people take wrestling(reality TV as well) not being "real" super personal lol. Idk what it is, but something about a live action fictional combat league pisses folk off .


----------



## DaSlacker

DaveRA said:


> I agree with you … AEW is not providing the majority of fans with what they want.
> I am just saying it’s good, and worth a try. To me, the fans are missing out.


In fairness, here in the UK the audience watching AEW on linear TV is a bit bigger than WWE. That's on account of accessibility... But it still counts. Not sure about other countries 

WWE are throwing a lot of big matches at those Raw shows. The viewership is still down 30% on 3 years ago. So give it a few years and those numbers will meet. Everybody loves to see a recognisable face in a new environment. It boosts interest for a while. Not sure you, but I have more faith in Tony Khan to throw money at the likes of Kevin Steen, El Generico, Jeff Hardy and Adam Copeland by 2023. Than I do of WWE to establish new stars like they did with the original OVW call ups or the Four Horsewomen.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Why is it that when WWE doesn't provide what wrestling fans want it's on WWE, but when AEW doesn't provide what wrestling fans want it's on the fans?


why is it that ‘if wwe…’ is your favourite phrase?

you’re missing the point - dynamite gets 1.1m / raw gets what 1.7m

so there are actively 600k people actively choosing not to watch dynamite on a Wednesday

why is that?

either aew has to sign even more wwe stars, or the fans don’t want to watch anything other than wwe

cause it can’t be the quality - that is clearly there


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> *why is it that ‘if wwe…’ is your favourite phrase?*
> 
> you’re missing the point - dynamite gets 1.1m / raw gets what 1.7m
> 
> so there are actively 600k people actively choosing not to watch dynamite on a Wednesday
> 
> why is that?
> 
> either aew has to sign even more wwe stars, or the fans don’t want to watch anything other than wwe
> 
> *cause it can’t be the quality - that is clearly there[*


1. Because it's a great question when a clear double standard is being held, one a lot of you don't want to honestly answer

2. While I'd agree AEW is entertaining, the fact you can't consider maybe AEW aren't providing a product people want is silly. I gave you several very valid reasons why some might prefer Raw over Dynamite. A lot of y'all get caught up in thinking what's popular and not popular in the hardcore bubble is the opinion of fans in general. Something like Alexa Bliss' stupid doll getting positive chants is a reflection of that.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> 1. Because it's a great question when a clear double standard is being held, one a lot of you don't want to honestly answer
> 
> 2. While I'd agree AEW is entertaining, the fact you can't consider maybe AEW aren't providing a product people want is silly. I gave you several very valid reasons why some might prefer Raw over Dynamite. A lot of y'all get caught up in thinking what's popular and not popular in the hardcore bubble is the opinion of fans in general. Something like Alexa Bliss' stupid doll getting positive chants is a reflection of that.


its not a great question - its a strawman

why when Alexa had the tablet in her mouth for the foam, or Balor had the collapsing top rope wasn't there 1000 threads about how amateur it is and the company will be dead? Because the double standard doesn't exist, it is just a great 'go-to' for the WWE homers

if those things happened in AEW we would still be talking about it

critics who are WWE fans and kinda watch AEW don't hold the same energy between the two parts of the board and that is a fact

IMO Raw offers zero things extra that if Dynamite did different they would 'draw' these fans

its either a star like Randy Orton, and people don't want them to sign more WWE guys / or its fans that are WWE institutionalised or brand loyal

and there is nothing wrong with it, back your team - but to suggest Dynamite has less quality than RAW in any part is just bias. If anything, they are equal


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> cause it can’t be the quality - that is clearly there


Isnt quality a subjective when it comes to wresting? Or how do you measure quality? I dont see it being any more objectively better in quality than any other wresting promotion. And dont tell me „big dave gave a tv match 5 stars“ as quality measurement.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> its not a great question - its a strawman
> 
> why when Alexa had the tablet in her mouth for the foam, or Balor had the collapsing top rope wasn't there 1000 threads about how amateur it is and the company will be dead? Because the double standard doesn't exist, it is just a great 'go-to' for the WWE homers
> 
> if those things happened in AEW we would still be talking about it
> 
> critics who are WWE fans and kinda watch AEW don't hold the same energy between the two parts of the board and that is a fact
> 
> IMO Raw offers zero things extra that if Dynamite did different they would 'draw' these fans
> 
> its either a star like Randy Orton, and people don't want them to sign more WWE guys / or its fans that are WWE institutionalised or brand loyal
> 
> and there is nothing wrong with it, back your team - but to suggest Dynamite has less quality than RAW in any part is just bias. If anything, they are equal


We both know the WWE section is dying and the AEW section is lit right now. But WWE still gets it's criticism on this forum it just happens in AEW threads and they especially get it off this forum. I criticize and crack jokes on them the same way I crack jokes on AEW. AEW is given a lot of slack, in the same way NXT prior to AEW was given a lot of slack. 

The double standards lie in AEW favor when it comes to our bubble. The biggest example being look at the ammunition that was fired when fans thought AEW were going to have a union and health care. Then look at the response when that was walked back to "a union in wrestling wouldn't work and you only get health care if you have an office job".


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Isnt quality a subjective when it comes to wresting? Or how do you measure quality? I dont see it being any more objectively better in quality than any other wresting promotion. And dont tell me „big dave gave a tv match 5 stars“ as quality measurement.


i think you can make the call that it is of at least similar quality? (ps> i am talking about overall quality as a show - production, matches, promos, presentation, stars)

if we all agree with that statement, as a sample size it should ring true for the rest of the fans out there?

unless people here think it is worse quality than RAW - i would very much like to know how they subjectively come to that conclusion - cause it will be interesting


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> We both know the WWE section is dying and the AEW section is lit right now. But WWE still gets it's criticism on this forum it just happens in AEW threads and they especially get it off this forum. I criticize and crack jokes on them the same way I crack jokes on AEW. AEW is given a lot of slack, in the same way NXT prior to AEW was given a lot of slack.
> 
> The double standards lie in AEW favor when it comes to our bubble. The biggest example being look at the ammunition that was fired when fans thought AEW were going to have a union and health care. Then look at the response when that was walked back to "a union in wrestling wouldn't work and you only get health care if you have an office job".


union and health care is a deep cut - bravo going back two years - no way am I arguing those points again on a sunny saturday


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> union and health care is a deep cut - bravo going back two years - no way am I arguing those points again on a sunny saturday


Hopefully good drinks and good food are on the menu


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Hopefully good drinks and good food are on the menu


we’re getting the fire ready now for a braai (bbq to you)

steaks, ribs, beers - all gooood


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i think you can make the call that it is of at least similar quality? (ps> i am talking about overall quality as a show - production, matches, promos, presentation, stars)
> 
> if we all agree with that statement, as a sample size it should ring true for the rest of the fans out there?
> 
> unless people here think it is worse quality than RAW - i would very much like to know how they subjectively come to that conclusion - cause it will be interesting


But all that - matches, promos, presentation, stars - is not objectively measurable. I for myself dont see Darby as a star, nor Sammy or MJF or Jungle Boy. Am I now wrong with my opinion? I dont see the presentation on par with WWE, is that wrong then?

I just dont like when a fanbase (and I call you AEW fanbase) thinks that what they say is objectively true, just because its their opinion. Objecively measurable is the viewership, or revenue they generate, etc.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> we’re getting the fire ready now for a braai (bbq to you)
> 
> steaks, ribs, beers - all gooood


I'mma have to see if my father busting out the smoker today, because that sounds like a great idea.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Lmao at blaming fans


*It's so ridiculous. They go from "AEW IS COMPETITION!" to "IT'S THE FAN'S FAULT!" when a number is underwhelming. They come up with every reason why AEW is the greatest, yet have a thousand excuses about a game show taking their ratings.*


----------



## thorn123

DaSlacker said:


> In fairness, here in the UK the audience watching AEW on linear TV is a bit bigger than WWE. That's on account of accessibility... But it still counts. Not sure about other countries
> 
> WWE are throwing a lot of big matches at those Raw shows. The viewership is still down 30% on 3 years ago. So give it a few years and those numbers will meet. Everybody loves to see a recognisable face in a new environment. It boosts interest for a while. Not sure you, but I have more faith in Tony Khan to throw money at the likes of Kevin Steen, El Generico, Jeff Hardy and Adam Copeland by 2023. Than I do of WWE to establish new stars like they did with the original OVW call ups or the Four Horsewomen.


The next few years will be real interesting that’s for sure.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> But all that - matches, promos, presentation, stars - is not objectively measurable. I for myself dont see Darby as a star, nor Sammy or MJF or Jungle Boy. Am I now wrong with my opinion? I dont see the presentation on par with WWE, is that wrong then?
> 
> I just dont like when a fanbase (and I call you AEW fanbase) thinks that what they say is objectively true, just because its their opinion. Objecively measurable is the viewership, or revenue they generate, etc.


ok, all fine - but then what should AEW change to tap into the 600k viewers they are not currently reaching in your opinion? What are the missing which Raw is supplying?

cause for me, they are putting up a comparable product - but as you say, there is bias.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> I'mma have to see if my father busting out the smoker today, because that sounds like a great idea.


smoking some ribs would be great


----------



## thorn123

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i think you can make the call that it is of at least similar quality? (ps> i am talking about overall quality as a show - production, matches, promos, presentation, stars)
> 
> if we all agree with that statement, as a sample size it should ring true for the rest of the fans out there?
> 
> unless people here think it is worse quality than RAW - i would very much like to know how they subjectively come to that conclusion - cause it will be interesting


It comes back to your and my argument…i feel WWE gets more passes than AEW. IMO if you found a person who had never seen wrestling, and showed them an episode of raw and dynamite, they would enjoy dynamite more. I could be wrong.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DaveRA said:


> It comes back to your and my argument…i feel WWE gets more passes than AEW. IMO if you found a person who had never seen wrestling, and showed them an episode of raw and dynamite, they would enjoy dynamite more. I could be wrong.


i feel the same way

people flying everywhere, doing big moves - AEW looks to me more appealing to a channel flipper

but i am admittedly biased


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> smoking some ribs would be great


Yeah they really do be great. I'm lucky my dad is a chef and loves to grill and all that. Talking the man will grill in the winter if ain't no snow out [emoji23]. 80% of his Facebook is just him going live while cooking outside lol.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Yeah they really do be great. I'm lucky my dad is a chef and loves to grill and all that. Talking the man will grill in the winter if ain't no snow out [emoji23]. 80% of his Facebook is just him going live while cooking outside lol.


lolll, fuck you are lucky to have a chef dad - super jealous! 

lmk what you guys are smoking / i am quite the meathead myself and can talk BBQ all day


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *It's so ridiculous. They go from "AEW IS COMPETITION!" to "IT'S THE FAN'S FAULT!" when a number is underwhelming. They come up with every reason why AEW is the greatest, yet have a thousand excuses about a game show taking their ratings.*


when you press the superkick button, i’m gonna make you flop around like a fish in the game i’m making


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> *It's so ridiculous. They go from "AEW IS COMPETITION!" to "IT'S THE FAN'S FAULT!" when a number is underwhelming. They come up with every reason why AEW is the greatest, yet have a thousand excuses about a game show taking their ratings.*


True lol, but that's just a part of fandom I guess. Like I know it took me a while to accept folk weren't dumb because they didn't listen to Lupe Fiasco. They probably didn't listen because a whole song using fast food as a metaphor for the streets and drug game doesn't hit for everybody [emoji23]


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lolll, fuck you are lucky to have a chef dad - super jealous!
> 
> lmk what you guys are smoking / i am quite the meathead myself and can talk BBQ all day


He usually sticks with ribs, chicken, pork, and burgers you know normal folk stuff. Every once in a while he'll get a hold of something random like gator or elk. But typically just regular BBQ stuff


----------



## thorn123

The Legit DMD said:


> *It's so ridiculous. They go from "AEW IS COMPETITION!" to "IT'S THE FAN'S FAULT!" when a number is underwhelming. They come up with every reason why AEW is the greatest, yet have a thousand excuses about a game show taking their ratings.*


They, not all…I have never said AEW is competition.
I think we are on the same page really, our argument is just that AEW is pretty good and more fans should give it a go, whereas WWE fans, rightfully so, due to their long term branding, give them more passes.


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ok, all fine - but then what should AEW change to tap into the 600k viewers they are not currently reaching in your opinion? What are the missing which Raw is supplying?
> 
> cause for me, they are putting up a comparable product - but as you say, there is bias.


As ugly as it sounds, they are lacking big guys prominently in place. And they have a lot of them, just dont use them and honestly (even though this can be argued as boring) consistancy. Not having a banger of a show and then have Jack Evans in your main event of Rampage, or Dark Order segments (I know Brodie blabla, but this could have been done off camera). At least you know what to expect from WWE, with AEW its easier to watch highlights on youtube, as you never know when a wild midget appears 

I actually think they made a „mistake“ in the beginning in catering to the hardcore fanbase, them raving about every shit they were doing. You see an increase with the like of Punk and Bryan being added.

BUT at the end, this could all be enough for 250m tv deal in 2024?! So what do I know


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> As ugly as it sounds, they are lacking big guys prominently in place. And they have a lot of them, just dont use them and honestly (even though this can be argued as boring) consistancy. Not having a banger of a show and then have Jack Evans in your main event of Rampage, or Dark Order segments (I know Brodie blabla, but this could have been done off camera). At least you know what to expect from WWE, with AEW its easier to watch highlights on youtube, as you never know when a wild midget appears
> 
> I actually think they made a „mistake“ in the beginning in catering to the hardcore fanbase, them raving about every shit they were doing. You see an increase with the like of Punk and Bryan being added.
> 
> BUT at the end, this could all be enough for 250m tv deal in 2024?! So what do I know


somehow i don’t think suddenly putting Hobbs, Cage, Lance (their biggest guys) in the main events will have people flocking to Dynamite - but thats just me

Rampage has since the start been a ‘reverse booked’ show - main event is first. We can argue how smart that is (i don’t agree with it) - but we are talking about Dynamite though.


but yeah, maybe ‘predicability’ is WWEs greatest asset in a weird way - you know what to expect, you know all the stars will appear and you know who is likely winning. That sort of repetition is actually smart sometimes


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> somehow i don’t think suddenly putting Hobbs, Cage, Lance (their biggest guys) in the main events will have people flocking to Dynamite - but thats just me
> 
> Rampage has since the start been a ‘reverse booked’ show - main event is first. We can argue how smart that is (i don’t agree with it) - but we are talking about Dynamite though.
> 
> 
> but yeah, maybe ‘predicability’ is WWEs greatest asset in a weird way - you know what to expect, you know all the stars will appear and you know who is likely winning. That sort of repetition is actually smart sometimes


Yeah not somehow, but they played second fiddle from the beginning. All big guys were used for was putting Cody over 😂😂

But at the end no one was prediction 1.1m as normal half a year ago, so there is progress, so maybe they will come for that 600k missing oldies, or maybe they just dont dont want them. Maybe it comes with the move to this other channel, we will see


----------



## thorn123

fabi1982 said:


> As ugly as it sounds, they are lacking big guys prominently in place. And they have a lot of them, just dont use them and honestly (even though this can be argued as boring) consistancy. Not having a banger of a show and then have Jack Evans in your main event of Rampage, or Dark Order segments (I know Brodie blabla, but this could have been done off camera). At least you know what to expect from WWE, with AEW its easier to watch highlights on youtube, as you never know when a wild midget appears
> 
> I actually think they made a „mistake“ in the beginning in catering to the hardcore fanbase, them raving about every shit they were doing. You see an increase with the like of Punk and Bryan being added.
> 
> BUT at the end, this could all be enough for 250m tv deal in 2024?! So what do I know


I agree with most of what you say … AEW doesn’t have that mass appeal, but its still pretty good (compared to what else is on tv) and should rate higher.

The only way they will get that mass appeal is with the next hogan or Austin or an nwo type angle.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

DaveRA said:


> They, not all…I have never said AEW is competition.
> I think we are on the same page really, our argument is just that AEW is pretty good and more fans should give it a go, whereas WWE fans, rightfully so, due to their long term branding, give them more passes.


*I don't have a problem with you because you don't go out of your way to shit on WWE everytime AEW does a decent number, then make a thousand excuses when it doesn't.*


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> True lol, but that's just a part of fandom I guess. Like I know it took me a while to accept folk weren't dumb because they didn't listen to Lupe Fiasco. They probably didn't listen because a whole song using fast food as a metaphor for the streets and drug game doesn't hit for everybody [emoji23]


*Daydream was my shit in high school.*


----------



## 3venflow

They're at 8,800 tickets sold for Full Gear at the Target Center after the pre-sale and day one of general sales. Current config is for 11,500 but obviously they can open more than that.

Somewhere between 4,000 and 5,000 sold for Rampage the night before there.

Full Gear's current tickets sold puts it ahead of every pro wrestling show there since WWE RAW in 2015 (10,000). TLC 2019 and this July's Smackdown both did 8,000 claimed.

All-time highest is Summerslam 1999 with 17,259 fans. A more realistic target for AEW may be the 14,000 that Elimination Chamber 2014 did there, but who knows with the right card.


----------



## ElTerrible

3venflow said:


> They're at 8,800 tickets sold for Full Gear at the Target Center after the pre-sale and day one of general sales. Current config is for 11,500 but obviously they can open more than that.
> 
> Somewhere between 4,000 and 5,000 sold for Rampage the night before there.
> *
> Full Gear's current tickets sold puts it ahead of every pro wrestling show there since WWE RAW in 2015 (10,000). TLC 2019 and this July's Smackdown both did 8,000 claimed.*
> 
> All-time highest is Summerslam 1999 with 17,259 fans. A more realistic target for AEW may be the 14,000 that Elimination Chamber 2014 did there, but who knows with the right card.


 It seemed a strange city choice for a company that only has four PPVs. Minneapolis never struck me as a wrestling hotbed and the arena holds how many seats for basketball? Must be around 18-20k and they calculated with 10k to begin with?


----------



## Randy Lahey

ElTerrible said:


> It seemed a strange city choice for a company that only has four PPVs. Minneapolis never struck me as a wrestling hotbed and the arena holds how many seats for basketball? Must be around 18-20k and they calculated with 10k to begin with?


Dave said Minneapolis was a big WWE city and wondered how many tickets AEW could sell in that market.

alreasy selling 75% available is a good sign tho.


----------



## bdon

3venflow said:


> Full Gear's current tickets sold puts it ahead of every pro wrestling show there since WWE RAW in 2015 (10,000). TLC 2019 and this July's Smackdown both did 8,000 claimed.


“ThEy’Re NoT gRoWiNg ThEiR PrOdUcT!”

If the ticket sales continue to outpace WWE and more recent historical ticket sales, then they’re all going to wake up one day and realize AEW is on top of the market. Asses in seats become people wanting to buy the PPV. AEW seats becoming a hot ticket item becomes easy marketing as word of mouth spreads like wildfire.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> “ThEy’Re NoT gRoWiNg ThEiR PrOdUcT!”
> 
> If the ticket sales continue to outpace WWE and more recent historical ticket sales, then they’re all going to wake up one day and realize AEW is on top of the market. Asses in seats become people wanting to buy the PPV. AEW seats becoming a hot ticket item becomes easy marketing as word of mouth spreads like wildfire.


no mate… let it sneak up

will make it more fun longterm


----------



## 3venflow

Rampage got 596k and 0.24 in the fast overnights. That sounds low but like Smackdown, could be higher when the official number is out on Monday (it's rare to receive fast overnights for a cable show so there's no precedent with AEW).


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> Rampage got 596k and 0.24 in the fast overnights. That sounds low but like Smackdown, could be higher when the official number is out on Monday (it's rare to receive fast overnights for a cable show so there's no precedent with AEW).


*I'm definitely waiting til Monday for that one. It would be shocking for Bryan to achieve a new all the time low with that match. It should be at least mid 600 again.*


----------



## Chan Hung

3venflow said:


> Rampage got 596k and 0.24 in the fast overnights. That sounds low but like Smackdown, could be higher when the official number is out on Monday (it's rare to receive fast overnights for a cable show so there's no precedent with AEW).


I will wait for the official number but holy fuck if this is their number, Tony needs to fucking wake up with the jobber shit.


----------



## 3venflow

UBS Arena update. NY becoming AEW country?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1444468268115415044


----------



## Jonhern

3venflow said:


> UBS Arena update. NY becoming AEW country?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1444468268115415044


Wow aew has already sold more tickets than WWE has made available for sale.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> UBS Arena update. NY becoming AEW country?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1444468268115415044


They claimed it, its theirs 🤷‍♂️

Quite interesting about the prices - obvs makes sense for WWE floor seats to go slower / but the rest is pretty close

I do think those WWE prices will fall though when its closer to the time - if still unsold


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

LifeInCattleClass said:


> its not a great question - its a strawman
> 
> why when Alexa had the tablet in her mouth for the foam, or Balor had the collapsing top rope wasn't there 1000 threads about how amateur it is and the company will be dead? Because the double standard doesn't exist, it is just a great 'go-to' for the WWE homers
> 
> if those things happened in AEW we would still be talking about it
> 
> critics who are WWE fans and kinda watch AEW don't hold the same energy between the two parts of the board and that is a fact
> 
> IMO Raw offers zero things extra that if Dynamite did different they would 'draw' these fans
> 
> its either a star like Randy Orton, and people don't want them to sign more WWE guys / or its fans that are WWE institutionalised or brand loyal
> 
> and there is nothing wrong with it, back your team - but to suggest Dynamite has less quality than RAW in any part is just bias. If anything, they are equal


Wow, you REALLY like AEW, don't you? You cannot even fathom some people liking Raw and not liking/not giving a shit about AEW.

Why do people like shlocky action movies and not critically acclaimed Oscar bait movies? The Oscar bait is technically far more superior so why does a poorly reviewed Transformers movie do 20x more at the box office than the "better" film?

Maybe Raw's audience, uh, I don't know, actually enjoys the program? I know the internet hates Raw but when I watch it with casual fans they seem to mostly enjoy it. This isn't even a WWE vs AEW thing either.

Most casual main roster WWE fans don't give a shit about NXT either despite it being a WWE branded show that has commercials play during Raw and Smackdown. NXT is a "better" show than Raw and it's ratings are awful in comparison.

I really like Dynamite too but you can't be in such a bubble you can't even comprehend the concept of Dynamite simply not being for everyone.


----------



## rbl85

Chan Hung said:


> I will wait for the official number but holy fuck if this is their number, Tony needs to fucking wake up with the jobber shit.


Has nothing to do with jobbers, it's a 10pm show people will watch it live only if something special happen.

I'm a big fan of AEW and i don't watch it live because it's too late, i watch the replay or highlights during the weekend (i think a lot of people are doing it too).


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> Wow, you REALLY like AEW, don't you? You cannot even fathom some people liking Raw and not liking/not giving a shit about AEW.
> 
> Why do people like shlocky action movies and not critically acclaimed Oscar bait movies? The Oscar bait is technically far more superior so why does a poorly reviewed Transformers movie do 20x more at the box office than the "better" film?
> 
> Maybe Raw's audience, uh, I don't know, actually enjoys the program? I know the internet hates Raw but when I watch it with casual fans they seem to mostly enjoy it. This isn't even a WWE vs AEW thing either.
> 
> Most casual main roster WWE fans don't give a shit about NXT either despite it being a WWE branded show that has commercials play during Raw and Smackdown. NXT is a "better" how than Raw and it's ratings are awful in comparison.
> 
> I really like Dynamite too but you can't be in such a bubble you can't even comprehend the concept of Dynamite simply not being for everyone.


listen new guy (if that is your real name)

@RapShepard and I have a different sort of relationship right?

we’re both a tad biased and when we debate we both go a little hyperbolic - although, I’m sure he’ll say i’m wrong on this 

that doesn‘t mean i 100% believe what i say when i type replies to him, ok? Its just what we do


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> listen new guy (if that is your real name)
> 
> @RapShepard and I have a different sort of relationship right?
> 
> we’re both a tad biased and when we debate we both go a little hyperbolic - although, I’m sure he’ll say i’m wrong on this
> 
> that doesn‘t mean i 100% believe what i say when i type replies to him, ok? Its just what we do


You're good people far as I'm concerned.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> You're good people far as I'm concerned.


Ditto 

i like our arguments - you’re very good at debate


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*The bottom line for Rampage is that it's fine for Tony to put on the biggest match first to make it viewable to as many people as possible, (Cornette encouraged him to do this with those awful Dynamite shows during the NBA playoffs and he applied it here) but that doesn't mean put hot garbage in the main event slot. That's why the drops are so severe. 

Rampage should be what it was for the first few weeks with marquee matchups and segments only. Now, as expected, people are blaming the time slot instead of the shitty product. The time slot wasn't an issue for those higher rated shows.*


----------



## Kishido

So this numbers are good and well but for NXT it's shit?

Both are bad as fuck and both failed to proper introduce a second or third brand.

NXT at least the development stick but Rampage was supposed to be the 2nd main show and they really botched it


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

It’d be cool if the general format for Rampage is big match at beginning, and then a big segment at the end (mixing it up though where it’s the opposite sometimes, or two big segments/two big matches).

Something like that anyway. Tony seems like he rarely wants to start/end the show with a promo segment. I’d agree it shouldn’t be done every week, but mix it up a bit more. Keep people on their toes and give people a reason to stick around.


----------



## the_flock

The Legit DMD said:


> *The bottom line for Rampage is that it's fine for Tony to put on the biggest match first to make it viewable to as many people as possible, (Cornette encouraged him to do this with those awful Dynamite shows during the NBA playoffs and he applied it here) but that doesn't mean put hot garbage in the main event slot. That's why the drops are so severe.
> 
> Rampage should be what it was for the first few weeks with marquee matchups and segments only. Now, as expected, people are blaming the time slot instead of the shitty product. The time slot wasn't an issue for those higher rated shows.*


See AEW has a plan, they're simply spreading the love around. If you combine all the figures for all shows together, they beat Raw and just think about how much money they're going to get on their next deal, especially when they add their 10th show.


----------



## Mr316

Don’t expect a good number when your main event involves Jack Evans which AEW never gave the audience a reason to care about. Also it’s at 10pm on a Friday. Also, it’s taped. Gonna be very hard to make this show succesful.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Kishido said:


> So this numbers are good and well but for NXT it's shit?
> 
> Both are bad as fuck and both failed to proper introduce a second or third brand.
> 
> NXT at least the development stick but Rampage was supposed to be the 2nd main show and they really botched it


*Preach! The same people defended the vanilla midgets in NXT doing 5-600 k for weeks on end, but now all of a sudden 650-740k is bad because Vince stepped in and featured the big muscle men. Nah, keep that same energy you had when Gargano was stinking up the joint.*


----------



## the_flock

Mr316 said:


> Don’t expect a good number when your main event involves Jack Evans which AEW never gave the audience a reason to care about. Also it’s at 10pm on a Friday. Also, it’s taped. Gonna be very hard to make this show succesful.


Why does it matter what time its on at?


----------



## Mr316

the_flock said:


> Why does it matter what time its on at?


Is this a serious question? I love AEW and I don’t watch Rampage because it’s on a Friday night. It’s simply a terrible timeslot for TV.


----------



## Dr. Middy

The Legit DMD said:


> *The bottom line for Rampage is that it's fine for Tony to put on the biggest match first to make it viewable to as many people as possible, (Cornette encouraged him to do this with those awful Dynamite shows during the NBA playoffs and he applied it here) but that doesn't mean put hot garbage in the main event slot. That's why the drops are so severe.
> 
> Rampage should be what it was for the first few weeks with marquee matchups and segments only. Now, as expected, people are blaming the time slot instead of the shitty product. The time slot wasn't an issue for those higher rated shows.*


If you did that though, given the smaller viewership I wouldn't start throwing like huge major angles that end at 11pm on a Friday night either. Like I wouldn't start throwing big Omega/Mox/Punk/etc. singles matches or big angles for the main event given that the viewership probably will only get so high given the day and lateness of how the show airs (unless you lead off the show with those which in that case is fine)

OC/Evans was a lower card gimmick match, but maybe instead have that women's three way there since it was built up well and all three women are featured well, or put that Darby/Sting tag match on Rampage instead, or put a feud like MJF/Pillman there. At least these actually have way more meaning than having Daniel Garcia and some jobbers there, or a lower card feud.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Dr. Middy said:


> If you did that though, given the smaller viewership I wouldn't start throwing like huge major angles that end at 11pm on a Friday night either. Like I wouldn't start throwing big Omega/Mox/Punk/etc. singles matches or big angles for the main event given that the viewership probably will only get so high given the day and lateness of how the show airs (unless you lead off the show with those which in that case is fine)
> 
> OC/Evans was a lower card gimmick match, but maybe instead have that women's three way there since it was built up well and all three women are featured well, or put that Darby/Sting tag match on Rampage instead, or put a feud like MJF/Pillman there. At least these actually have way more meaning than having Daniel Garcia and some jobbers there, or a lower card feud.


* The first thing I said before even getting the rating is that the women should have main evented. You put the Jack Evans match between Bryan and the triple threat and you'll keep way more viewers because they actually have something to look forward to. The point is stop letting jobbers and useless matches like Pillman vs Castor main event. *


----------



## Erik.

Kishido said:


> So this numbers are good and well but for NXT it's shit?
> 
> Both are bad as fuck and both failed to proper introduce a second or third brand.
> 
> NXT at least the development stick but Rampage was supposed to be the 2nd main show and they really botched it


Isn't NXT on at prime time?

Not at 10pm on a Friday night?

Id be impressed if NXT managed their current numbers in a graveyard slot. Turns out, they do even worse.


----------



## the_flock

Erik. said:


> Isn't NXT on at prime time?
> 
> Not at 10pm on a Friday night?
> 
> Id be impressed if NXT managed their current numbers in a graveyard slot. Turns out, they do even worse.


Friday night at 10pm isn't a graveyard slot, you should know that being in the UK.


----------



## 3venflow

The later something is on TV, the lower the ratings are (usually).

If Rampage was on earlier, the ratings would be better.

If Dynamite was on later, the ratings would be worse (we saw this during the Friday/Saturday night run).

It's common sense, people go to bed. I wonder if 7pm-8pm is a feasible slot for Rampage? Leading into Smackdown.

Even so, in the eyes of the industry, Rampage finished #1 last Friday as the default is to rank by 18-49 not total viewership. Same way WWE tout themselves as #1 even though Dateline, Blue Bloods, Big Brother and Wonder Years had more total viewers than Smackdown last Friday (but Smackdown had 0.55 in the 18-49 and was ranked #1 on network).


----------



## Jay Trotter

Bryan Danielson vs Nick Jackson should've done a better number than that to hold up the hour. It's your number one story on AEW TV right now, with one of your two biggest signings ever against your top faction, and in a match that was a lock to be good. We will have to see the breakdowns to learn how much it fell in final 30 minutes. Punk vs Hobbs in that same craptastic timeslot on a taped spoiled show did a 803k. That held up the first hour until the second hour crashed.


----------



## DaSlacker

the_flock said:


> Friday night at 10pm isn't a graveyard slot, you should know that being in the UK.


Three isn't much original, scripted content shown at that time, on that night. Plus TNT is like the equivalent of putting it on Sky Max, MTV, Cartoon Network etc. 600,000 in the states is equivalent to 100,000 in the UK on paywall. Not bad, not great.


----------



## thorn123

If this time slot is so bad, there must be a reason they don’t move…
It was a solid show with the opener worth at least a million viewers.
This number concerns me - what happens if dynamite trends the same way.


----------



## fabi1982

rbl85 said:


> Has nothing to do with jobbers, it's a 10pm show people will watch it live only if something special happen.
> 
> I'm a big fan of AEW and i don't watch it live because it's too late, i watch the replay or highlights during the weekend (i think a lot of people are doing it too).


Arent you supposed to be a Frech guy? Of course its too late for you here in Europe. But even me with close to being 40 me and my wife never go to bed before 11pm, so I can see that it is not prime time 8pm but it is also not 1am…people always claim how young the viewers are, why would they go to bed at 10pm on a Friday?!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Arent you supposed to be a Frech guy? Of course its too late for you here in Europe. But even me with close to being 40 me and my wife never go to bed before 11pm, so I can see that it is not prime time 8pm but it is also not 1am…people always claim how young the viewers are, why would they go to bed at 10pm on a Friday?!


maybe they go out


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> maybe they go out


RBL´s argument was "too late" but yeah of course people are going out on a Friday, doesnt stop Smackdown from a .5 to .6 in "the demo" and 2m viewers. Dont tell me that all these poeple then miraculously start going out at 10pm


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> RBL´s argument was "too late" but yeah of course people are going out on a Friday, doesnt stop Smackdown from a .5 to .6 in "the demo" and 2m viewers. Dont tell me that all these poeple then miraculously start going out at 10pm


you never know - clubs open at 10:30   

(ps> not serious  )


----------



## 3venflow

Ticket sales for Philly this Wednesday have now passed 6,500. Been a fair bit of movement since the card was announced.


----------



## omaroo

3venflow said:


> Ticket sales for Philly this Wednesday have now passed 6,500. Been a fair bit of movement since the card was announced.


What the total capacity for the philly show?


----------



## 3venflow

omaroo said:


> What the total capacity for the philly show?


Configured for 7,942 with the potential to seat over 8,000.


----------



## DaSlacker

3venflow said:


> Ticket sales for Philly this Wednesday have now passed 6,500. Been a fair bit of movement since the card was announced.


Just out of interest, can you get the WWE UK tour ticket sales? Not sure how finding that info works but I heard the show in Manchester is selling very slowly.


----------



## 3venflow

DaSlacker said:


> Just out of interest, can you get the WWE UK tour ticket sales? Not sure how finding that info works but I heard the show in Manchester is selling very slowly.


Haven't seen anything about that yet, maybe closer to show time.

This is pretty big, definitely influenced by Punk and Danielson:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1445072199971377152


----------



## bdon

fabi1982 said:


> RBL´s argument was "too late" but yeah of course people are going out on a Friday, doesnt stop Smackdown from a .5 to .6 in "the demo" and 2m viewers. Dont tell me that all these poeple then miraculously start going out at 10pm


You don’t really see a difference in a show starting at 10pm vs one starting at 8pm..?


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> You don’t really see a difference in a show starting at 10pm vs one starting at 8pm..?


You dont get my point or dont want to get it bdon


----------



## bdon

fabi1982 said:


> You dont get my point or dont want to get it bdon


“AEW sucks and SmackDown does perfectly fine on Friday’s”, no?

If I am misunderstanding your point, feel free to explain it.


----------



## bdon

I mean, there is a reason I can not name a single noteworthy television show in my 37 years of existence that aired at 10pm Eastern on Friday nights. Not one.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> I mean, there is a reason I can not name a single noteworthy television show in my 37 years of existence that aired at 10pm Eastern on Friday nights. Not one.


wasn’t that M.A.S.H timeslot?

or maybe that was just in south africa


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage ratings*

Viewership: 622,000
18-49: 0.25

#3 on cable.

Down 18k and 0.04 in the key demo from Grand Slam. Even though the final ratings were higher than the overnights reported on Saturday, they're still Rampage's lowest yet in the P2+ and P18-49.


----------



## RapShepard

RapShepard said:


> * Tracking Ratings With Rap Shepard*
> 
> Let's see the Rampage numbers without Punk
> 
> Rampage #1- 740k .31 demo
> 
> Dynamite 8/18- 975k .35 demo
> 
> Rampage #2 with Punk- 1.129 million .53 demo
> 
> Dynamite 8/25 with Punk- 1.172 million .48 demo
> 
> Rampage #3 no Punk- 722k .34 demo
> 
> Dynamite 9/1 - 1.047 .37 demo
> 
> Rampage #4 with Punk- 696k .30 demo
> 
> Dynamite 9/8 with Punk, Bryan, and Cole- 1.31 million .53 demo
> 
> Rampage #5 No Punk, Bryan, or Cole- 670k .27 demo
> 
> Dynamite 9/15 with Punk, Cole, and Bryan- 1.175 million .44 demo
> 
> Rampage #6 no Punk, Cole, or Bryan - 642k .28 demo
> 
> Dynamite 9/22 Bryan vs Omega- 1.273 million .48 demo
> 
> Rampage #7 Punk vs Hobbs- 640k .28 demo
> 
> Dynamite 9/30 with Punk, Bryan, and Cole- 1.152 million .45 demo
> 
> Rampage #8 Bryan vs Nick Jackson- 622k .25 demo


----------



## DaSlacker

bdon said:


> I mean, there is a reason I can not name a single noteworthy television show in my 37 years of existence that aired at 10pm Eastern on Friday nights. Not one.


NWA Power Hour? 

Wrong day but Saturday Night Live goes out on a 'night out' night. 

WWF Saturday Night's Main Event used to go out at 11:30 on a Saturday too.


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> “AEW sucks and SmackDown does perfectly fine on Friday’s”, no?
> 
> If I am misunderstanding your point, feel free to explain it.


There‘s no way to argue with you in a normal manner…

I just pointed out that it is „numbers are dropping on network tv“ for the one and „oh people go out and its late“ for the other. When 2m people watch wrestling on a Friday evening, I just dont believe that they either go to bed 10 sharp or then go out and have a social life.

Like DMD and others have said, make the show interesting and people will watch. But all the „superfans“ are doing is finding excuses to actually figure out what the may could do better.


----------



## Fearless Viper

So I'm guessing that this College football are temporary like NFL? If so, then it's not really that bad.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Would like to see quarters, but that's like 100k down from hour 1 last week. Not great, but I'd expect something similar to last week where Bryan's match did a big number, and then a massive decline after that.


----------



## omaroo

Shame Rampage's ratingss cant improve in that timeslot.

I would be shocked if TK is happy the day and time the show is on.

It truly feels like a B show especially considering how they tried to make it as important as Dynamite which it really isnt.


----------



## yeahright2

Official ratings, means an "official" scoreboard on the ratings game 








AEW Ratings prediction game


It looks like the most picks are between 1.1 and 1.17. So I will go high and say 1.22 (.46). Rampage: 675k




www.wrestlingforum.com





@Vitamin R took the win for Rampage, and a shared win for Dynamite, so maybe it´s his time?

Once again a drop in numbers. Friday at 10 isn´t a good timeslot, but if the product is good enough, wouldn´t people watch? Like the debut of Punk demonstrated - the fans are out there.


----------



## bdon

fabi1982 said:


> There‘s no way to argue with you in a normal manner…
> 
> I just pointed out that it is „numbers are dropping on network tv“ for the one and „oh people go out and its late“ for the other. When 2m people watch wrestling on a Friday evening, I just dont believe that they either go to bed 10 sharp or then go out and have a social life.
> 
> Like DMD and others have said, make the show interesting and people will watch. But all the „superfans“ are doing is finding excuses to actually figure out what the may could do better.


Hey, name one major television show of the last 37 years that came on the air at 10pm on a Friday night. Pretty simple.

I agree that the show is mostly boring, but they have done good episodes that still didn’t do shit ratings-wise. BECAUSE IT STARTS AT 10PM ON A FRIDAY EVENING.

I would love to see a breakdown of SD’s quarter hours.


----------



## bdon

“They lost half their audience” doesn’t have quite the ring to it anymore, so now we’re arguing about a shit time slot.

Fucking hell. Think about how much better the ratings Vince could do if he just bumped SmackDown to 10pm on a Friday night with nothing else on TV! Goddamn. Wonder why no one else has thought of this open time slot in THIRTY SEVEN YEARS!


----------



## bdon

DaSlacker said:


> NWA Power Hour?
> 
> Wrong day but Saturday Night Live goes out on a 'night out' night.
> 
> WWF Saturday Night's Main Event used to go out at 11:30 on a Saturday too.


Ok, so Main Event that debuted in 1985. I asked for 37 years, and you gave one that aired 36 years ago yet didn’t air that frequently. Power Hour aired far more frequently, so good call on that one.

But that still doesn’t answer why historically great television shows, not just wrestling, aren’t trying to air at 10pm on a Friday night.


----------



## bdon

Can’t believe I’m having a discussion about whether 10pm on a Friday night is a horrible fucking time slow or not. I predicted this show would have shit numbers when it became clear it was coming on at 10pm. It’s a fucking death slot. There’s a reason Game of Thrones, American Idol, and wherever other fucking pop culture shows prefer prime time and aren’t asking to go on the air at TEN PM ON A FUCKING FRIDAY NIGHT.


----------



## bdon

Here’s the part where you brush it off due to it being on Wikipedia, right?



Star Trek moved to 10pm and was taken off-air until the movies came. Prison Break was cancelled upon a move to Friday 10pm. Sarah Connor Chronicles. Plenty more.

You don’t care about a show, then you throw it on at 10pm on Friday night. You want to discuss how much TNT cares about wrestling, then I can get onboard and point directly at the time slot given to Rampage, but trying to suggest the show should do well at 10pm shows fucking ignorance of American television viewing habits.


----------



## SeiyaKanie

if you use that wikipedia article as reference then smackdown is also on "friday night death slot"


----------



## bdon

SeiyaKanie said:


> if you use that wikipedia article as reference then smackdown is also on "friday night death slot"


Oh, there is no doubt about Friday’s being a shitty time for television in general, which also says a lot about what Fox thought of WWE.

Friday’s fucking suck for television. The only time in history decent television aired at that time that I can remember was ABC’s TGIF lineup with Boy Meets World, Family Matters, Full House, and the like that was ALL aired for children.


----------



## DaSlacker

It's worth noting that every time SmackDown is moved to Fox Sports 1 it averages about 950,000 viewers. It's true FS1 is in about 8 million fewer homes than TNT and is a less watched network. But still...


----------



## Wolf Mark

I must admit I always forget about Rampage. I have not even watched it once. Either I go out or rent a movie and when I don't, I don't think about it. It's like Friday is not a mood for wrestling(or maybe sport in general). But networks in general do not bother about putting on top shows on Fridays. Maybe that is why Rampage is there, cause wrestling is not that important.


----------



## bdon

Wolf Mark said:


> I must admit I always forget about Rampage. I have not even watched it once. Either I go out or rent a movie and when I don't, I don't think about it. It's like Friday is not a mood for wrestling(or maybe sport in general). *But networks in general do not bother about putting on top shows on Fridays. Maybe that is why Rampage is there, cause wrestling is not that important.*


This.

You get put on TV at 10pm on a Friday night, whether you’re a kids show, a wrestling show, a comedy, a sci-fi joint, etc - doesn’t matter - the network just told you they don’t care about your show.


----------



## Wolf Mark

bdon said:


> The budget expanding with the growing business is reinvesting for me. We heard how AEW was set to profitable within year 1.
> 
> So instead of pocketing the cash, you can use that money to reinvest by expanding the budget you had allotted for talent salaries, more expensive advertising, etc.
> 
> Either way, the guy’s argument pretending *AEW made a mistake in adding Punk and Bryan to “only” do a consistent 1.1m misses the mark*.


The mistake was in not having a whole plan in place beyond "let's have a match" for Bryan and Punk. If you hire these guys it's pointless to just have them do matches. You want to exploit this gold mine given to you on a silver platter to its fullest. The best use of the coming of new talent ever was when Hall & Nash rejoined WCW. It revolutionized the business. All they had was Hall showing up and they made a whole intrigue around it that was too irresistible to not watch. That is the template AEW should have used. I would have planned 6 months of storylines for these two. So you can use their stardom to create an attraction for AEW and spitballing it into tangible success.


----------



## bdon

Wolf Mark said:


> The mistake was in not having a whole plan in place beyond "let's have a match" for Bryan and Punk. If you hire these guys it's pointless to just have them do matches. You want to exploit this gold mine given to you on a silver platter to its fullest. The best use of the coming of new talent ever was when Hall & Nash rejoined WCW. It revolutionized the business. All they had was Hall showing up and they made a whole intrigue around it that was too irresistible to not watch. That is the template AEW should have used. I would have planned 6 months of storylines for these two. So you can use their stardom to create an attraction for AEW and spitballing it into tangible success.


I can see both lines or thinking on this one. 

On the one hand, you should absolutely have shit lined up, but on the other hand, if they come in with storylines, they are only limited to A) an invasion angle or B) really only working with guys they have history with.

I trust that Punk has something big up his sleeve, as for Bryan, I think he and Kenny done enough in limited face-offs to attract and maintain viewers.

The key for me is whether or not Punk and Bryan are keeping the weekly numbers up from what they were previously, and they have done that. That’s another 150-200k or so weekly fans investing in the product weekly who are inviting Darby Allin, MJF, Sammy, Jungle Boy, Lance Archer, The Lucha Bros, Santana and Ortiz, Brian Pillman Jr, etc into their homes that they likely haven’t seen before.

They have, thus far anyways, popped a rating while simultaneously growing the weekly live viewer. More of that leads to more word of mouth free advertising.


----------



## Wolf Mark

bdon said:


> I can see both lines or thinking on this one.
> 
> On the one hand, you should absolutely have shit lined up, but on the other hand, if they come in with storylines, they are only limited to A) an invasion angle or B) really only working with guys they have history with.
> 
> I trust that Punk has something big up his sleeve, as for Bryan, I think he and Kenny done enough in limited face-offs to attract and maintain viewers.
> 
> The key for me is whether or not Punk and Bryan are keeping the weekly numbers up from what they were previously, and they have done that. That’s another 150-200k or so weekly fans investing in the product weekly who are inviting Darby Allin, MJF, Sammy, Jungle Boy, Lance Archer, The Lucha Bros, Santana and Ortiz, Brian Pillman Jr, etc into their homes that they likely haven’t seen before.
> 
> They have, thus far anyways, popped a rating while simultaneously growing the weekly live viewer. More of that leads to more word of mouth free advertising.


They key of when you have storylines mapped out is that it's easier to create a build up and momentum. It's a simple storyelling method. You create an intrigue and people always want to see more of it. Because if all you do is have stars and throw them on screen, it can only be a short term thing in my opinion. Cause people may grow tired of them after the initial enthusiasm after the first month or so. If you look at the storyline of the nWo, they had good ratings at first but one year later it was even bigger and by 1998 they got their biggest ratings ever cause that storyline had become a phenomena(even though on paper 98 was not as good creatively but success could not not be denied. This is the key of having a good longterm storyline. It builds and builds and fans only ask for more.

Now I'm not saying Punk and Danielson should have done an invasion but at the very least, create something that could have been beneficial longterm. TK should have brought in a think tank of various people(even outside AEW) and come up with something new and innovative with a variety of things happening. Something epic. Because really they cannot screw this up in my opinion. No time in recent history of wrestling has there ever had a better opportunity than to bounce back with Danielson and Punk and Cole going to AEW. You cannot just throw them outthere and have matches. Cause it's gonna go like with Moxley, at some point they'll be yesterday news and rather quicker than we think.


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> Hey, name one major television show of the last 37 years that came on the air at 10pm on a Friday night. Pretty simple.
> 
> I agree that the show is mostly boring, but they have done good episodes that still didn’t do shit ratings-wise. BECAUSE IT STARTS AT 10PM ON A FRIDAY EVENING.
> 
> I would love to see a breakdown of SD’s quarter hours.


Honestly 800k would be very acceptable and possible and this is down to the stupid ass lame shows TK puts on after the opener, that they will be down to low 600s even with a Bryan match. No one is or was expecting Dynamite numbers and no one was expecting "CM punk return" numbers.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> Oh, there is no doubt about Friday’s being a shitty time for television in general, which also says a lot about what Fox thought of WWE.
> 
> Friday’s fucking suck for television. The only time in history decent television aired at that time that I can remember was ABC’s TGIF lineup with Boy Meets World, Family Matters, Full House, and the like that was ALL aired for children.


It's interesting to me that in the United States Friday 8 PM until 11 PM is considered a bad time slot. Here in Australia Friday night is sports night and a marquee game will air on Friday night.

People go out but they'll watch the games in pubs, clubs etc.


----------



## wwetna1

Fearless Viper said:


> So I'm guessing that this College football are temporary like NFL? If so, then it's not really that bad.


They are going to be head to head with the prime time western conference nba games every week in that spot in 3 weeks. The Lakers, Warriors, Blazers, Nuggets and those western teams are going to have a game on ESPN every Friday head to head with that slot so it’s still going to be bad


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> It's interesting to me that in the United States Friday 8 PM until 11 PM is considered a bad time slot. Here in Australia Friday night is sports night and a marquee game will air on Friday night.
> 
> People go out but they'll watch the games in pubs, clubs etc.


Friday evenings have been a crappy time slot since I was a kid, other than the TGIF lineup that ABC aired aimed mainly at kids and families with small children, which ran 4-5 years IIRC.

I remember several years ago, my favorite show of all time, Supernatural, got shifted to a Friday night time slot, and I legit became fearful it would be cancelled. Thankfully it had a super niche, loyal audience that kept it afloat so much that the execs at WB pretty much decided that they’d run the show for as long as the stars wanted to do the show, making it an astounding 15 seasons spanning 327 episodes.

That it survived Friday nights and was switched back to earlier in the week was a testament to its greatness.

Hopefully those at TNT feel the same about Rampage and allow it to move its day and time one day in the not too distant future.


----------



## DaSlacker

If anything I think WarnerMedia will be happy for TNT to be that high in the demo ratings and relatively consistent in the viewership ratings - compared to other shows - for that timeslot. There was the press release about several new shows, so we may see Rampage in that slot longterm and another show at the weekend. For 60 million or so per annum, they are getting a boatload of original content.


----------



## the_flock

bdon said:


> I can see both lines or thinking on this one.
> 
> On the one hand, you should absolutely have shit lined up, but on the other hand, if they come in with storylines, they are only limited to A) an invasion angle or B) really only working with guys they have history with.
> 
> I trust that Punk has something big up his sleeve, as for Bryan, I think he and Kenny done enough in limited face-offs to attract and maintain viewers.
> 
> The key for me is whether or not Punk and Bryan are keeping the weekly numbers up from what they were previously, and they have done that. That’s another 150-200k or so weekly fans investing in the product weekly who are inviting Darby Allin, MJF, Sammy, Jungle Boy, Lance Archer, The Lucha Bros, Santana and Ortiz, Brian Pillman Jr, etc into their homes that they likely haven’t seen before.
> 
> They have, thus far anyways, popped a rating while simultaneously growing the weekly live viewer. More of that leads to more word of mouth free advertising.


The problem is like everything in AEW, they hotshot it. They don't build up long term storylines. It's just 1 match. Done. Move on. 

Whats the arc? Why is Punk there? Is it redemption? Is it pure hatred of those in the North? Is it money? Same goes for Danielson. 

People shit on Hogan. But Bischoff used to say that Hulk would ask what the storyline is and what the end goal was. If its simply look at us we managed to get Punk... Err what do we do now... Err just have him sit in the corner of the Ring and try and re-enact the pipe bomb. It's not good enough. 

Err what do we do with Danielson. Let's have him face Kenny in 5 hour matches and prove who the 5 star man is. 

Danielson has a lot going for him, he's an interesting character. 

I agree with people who said you have Punk who hates WWE, you have Danielson who is a good company man who loves WWE, there's an arc right there.


----------



## the_flock

Chip Chipperson said:


> It's interesting to me that in the United States Friday 8 PM until 11 PM is considered a bad time slot. Here in Australia Friday night is sports night and a marquee game will air on Friday night.
> 
> People go out but they'll watch the games in pubs, clubs etc.


Exactly mate. Friday night in the UK has generally been about more adult orientated content and pushed big numbers.


----------



## the_flock

Wolf Mark said:


> at some point they'll be yesterday news and rather quicker than we think.


I think the intrigue has already gone. They only have a small window of a few weeks to keep those fans and they've pretty much lost them.


----------



## thorn123

the_flock said:


> The problem is like everything in AEW, they hotshot it. They don't build up long term storylines. It's just 1 match. Done. Move on.
> 
> Whats the arc? Why is Punk there? Is it redemption? Is it pure hatred of those in the North? Is it money? Same goes for Danielson.
> 
> People shit on Hogan. But Bischoff used to say that Hulk would ask what the storyline is and what the end goal was. If its simply look at us we managed to get Punk... Err what do we do now... Err just have him sit in the corner of the Ring and try and re-enact the pipe bomb. It's not good enough.
> 
> Err what do we do with Danielson. Let's have him face Kenny in 5 hour matches and prove who the 5 star man is.
> 
> Danielson has a lot going for him, he's an interesting character.
> 
> I agree with people who said you have Punk who hates WWE, you have Danielson who is a good company man who loves WWE, there's an arc right there.


Mate is wasn’t long ago AEW we’re getting ripped apart for their storyline’s being too long.


----------



## the_flock

bdon said:


> Can’t believe I’m having a discussion about whether 10pm on a Friday night is a horrible fucking time slow or not. I predicted this show would have shit numbers when it became clear it was coming on at 10pm. It’s a fucking death slot. There’s a reason Game of Thrones, American Idol, and wherever other fucking pop culture shows prefer prime time and aren’t asking to go on the air at TEN PM ON A FUCKING FRIDAY NIGHT.


It's interesting because in the UK, Friday night has always been very good tv. 

I think in America, its called the death slot because when shows are on their last legs they get moved to different days and it just so happens that's the day it dies on. 

With the amount of streaming platforms we have now, it doesn't really matter what days a TV show is on.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Rampage Quarter Breakdowns:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1445404073512034304
The main event being the highest rated segment is shocking to me.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Well well well well welllllll



drawKing Cassidy


----------



## thorn123

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Well well well well welllllll
> 
> 
> 
> drawKing Cassidy


I am no OC fan but if he draws I am happy … it would have been a great swerve if he lost his hair


----------



## DaSlacker

Not taking anything away from Cassidy but Hair vs Hair will always attract a bit of attention. I'm a little more shocked that Cargill vs Rosa vs Rose held the 600,000 viewers.


----------



## 3venflow

Holy shit, Cassidy and Evans completely bucked the Rampage trend.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Wow Bryan didn’t do shit this week for the ratings. I was sure he was going to have around 700k, but that’s much lower than I was expecting. Will chalk this up as an anomaly for him since he’s been great for numbers generally, but will be something to keep an eye on.

Though impressive performance for the women’s match gaining viewers back and especially the main event. OC drawing well is interesting since he definitely doesn’t have the momentum he once did, but he’s actually somewhat of a draw. I like him, so good to see that’s the first Rampage “main event” (final quarter) to draw the highest for the night.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Well well well well welllllll
> 
> 
> 
> drawKing Cassidy


I must say I am SHOCKED that the main event was the high point.


----------



## Prized Fighter

RapShepard said:


> I must say I am SHOCKED that the main event was the high point.


You might call this an excuse, but Bryan/Nick Jackson was going up against the backend of two college football games. Those games were done before Cassidy/Evans started.

Edit: This wasn't meant to call you out or anything, just trying to add context.


----------



## RapShepard

Prized Fighter said:


> You might call this an excuse, but Bryan/Nick Jackson was going up against the backend of two college football games. Those games were done before Cassidy/Evans started.
> 
> Edit: This wasn't meant to call you out or anything, just trying to add context.


Oh I know football is going to be tough for everybody, even with that in context it's still nuts to me. Like you could gave me 10 guesses and I still would've never called that match having the highest rating


----------



## Geeee

Seems to me that the rating really didn't change much throughout the show


----------



## cai1981

Dynamite rating for tomorrow night:

875k

The expected slide with the shows returning with new seasons and the wow factor wearing off after Punk and Bryan's debuts. However, add to that the fact they will be going head to head with the MLB National League Wild Card game. The 2 teams playing in that game (Dodgers and Cardinals) have large fanbases outside their metropolitan areas.

I predict 875k, but the number could be lower. If by chance it is higher, it won't do a million. The baseball game is very l, very stiff competition. They should be glad they put the Yankees vs. Red Sox tonight instead of tomorrow (NXT will be slaughtered tonight).

MLB Playoffs will be in full swing on Friday so Rampage will do about 520k...maybe less.


----------



## Prized Fighter

cai1981 said:


> Dynamite rating for tomorrow night:
> 
> 875k
> 
> The expected slide with the shows returning with new seasons and the wow factor wearing off after Punk and Bryan's debuts. However, add to that the fact they will be going head to head with the MLB National League Wild Card game. The 2 teams playing in that game (Dodgers and Cardinals) have large fanbases outside their metropolitan areas.
> 
> I predict 875k, but the number could be lower. If by chance it is higher, it won't do a million. The baseball game is very l, very stiff competition. They should be glad they put the Yankees vs. Red Sox tonight instead of tomorrow (NXT will be slaughtered tonight).
> 
> MLB Playoffs will be in full swing on Friday so Rampage will do about 520k...maybe less.


MLB might not matter as much as you think. The west coast (Dodger fans) Dynamite starts later then the east coast feed. East coast starts at 8 pm (EST) and West coast starts at 8 pm (PT)/11 pm (EST). Both count towards AEW's ratings.

NXT is probably in trouble though, because I think they only air at the one time on both coasts and it is Yankees/Red Sox.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

GNKenny said:


> Rampage Quarter Breakdowns:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1445404073512034304
> The main event being the highest rated segment is shocking to me.


I was going to say the same thing. WOW.


----------



## fabi1982

Ok thats fucking crazy. Evans and OC scoring higher than Bryan, I‘ll be damned, but sorry @bdon I was wrong with my assumption. Not sure if this is good or bad, but still, I was wrong.


----------



## cai1981

Prized Fighter said:


> MLB might not matter as much as you think. The west coast (Dodger fans) Dynamite starts later then the east coast feed. East coast starts at 8 pm (EST) and West coast starts at 8 pm (PT)/11 pm (EST). Both count towards AEW's ratings.
> 
> NXT is probably in trouble though, because I think they only air at the one time on bothp coasts and it is Yankees/Red Sox.


That could be what gets them to 900k. However, the Dodgers do have a lot of fans nationwide and the game will more than likely still be in progress as 11PM EST/8PM PST. I live in the east and these games are usually still going on well past 11. Also, the Cardinals are HUGE in Middle America and rival the Cubs in popularity in the "Heartland". The Central time zone airs at the same time as in the East so they will lose a lot of viewers based on that alone.


----------



## zkorejo

Looks like I'm not the only one that loves hair vs hair matches.


----------



## 3venflow

If hair vs. hair matches draw, they just missed an opportunity with Pillman the younger 🤔


----------



## ElTerrible

ripcitydisciple said:


> I was going to say the same thing. WOW.


Orange Cassidy is f***** over. I find it more confusing that Matt Hardy also draws some of the highest rated segments and good views on social media. So in an unexpected way, Orange Cassidy vs. Matt Hardy is a money match.


----------



## zkorejo

Matt will look good with a bald look. Kind of like kingpin.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> I must say I am SHOCKED that the main event was the high point.


was most likely filled with sweet PiP revenue and amazing dvr +7 numbers just to rub that salt deep  

OC smoking that Danielson, Elite, WrestleForum pack


----------



## Wolf Mark

the_flock said:


> The problem is like everything in AEW, they hotshot it. They don't build up long term storylines. It's just 1 match. Done. Move on.
> 
> Whats the arc? Why is Punk there? Is it redemption? Is it pure hatred of those in the North? Is it money? Same goes for Danielson.
> 
> People shit on Hogan. But Bischoff used to say that Hulk would ask what the storyline is and what the end goal was. If its simply look at us we managed to get Punk... Err what do we do now... Err just have him sit in the corner of the Ring and try and re-enact the pipe bomb. It's not good enough.
> 
> Err what do we do with Danielson. Let's have him face Kenny in 5 hour matches and prove who the 5 star man is.
> 
> Danielson has a lot going for him, he's an interesting character.
> 
> I agree with people who said you have Punk who hates WWE, you have Danielson who is a good company man who loves WWE, there's an arc right there.


Beautifully said. More and more it feels like TK and AEW go out of their way to not do arcs, to avoid doing storylines. I don't understand this mindset. I think they want to be UFC. * Wrestling doesn't work this way. You have to have stakes beyond what is going on in the ring. First of all it's not real fighting so without storylines to back up the matches, it's just athletic exibitions. When the storyline is great and then the match happen, this is when it's juicy, this where psychology appears. Making people invested. 

*Even the way they promote the cards before and during Dynamite is stupidly like MMA. But the weekly shows should be suprises IMO where anything can happen. Like a wrestler go into an argument with another wrestler and a match happens from it.


----------



## bdon

the_flock said:


> The problem is like everything in AEW, they hotshot it. They don't build up long term storylines. It's just 1 match. Done. Move on.
> 
> Whats the arc? Why is Punk there? Is it redemption? Is it pure hatred of those in the North? Is it money? Same goes for Danielson.
> 
> People shit on Hogan. But Bischoff used to say that Hulk would ask what the storyline is and what the end goal was. If its simply look at us we managed to get Punk... Err what do we do now... Err just have him sit in the corner of the Ring and try and re-enact the pipe bomb. It's not good enough.
> 
> Err what do we do with Danielson. Let's have him face Kenny in 5 hour matches and prove who the 5 star man is.
> 
> Danielson has a lot going for him, he's an interesting character.
> 
> I agree with people who said you have Punk who hates WWE, you have Danielson who is a good company man who loves WWE, there's an arc right there.


Putting the 2 WWE guys together is fucking awful and does nothing for the AEW production, makes them look clearly 2nd class citizen that the WWE guys aren’t competing with them. 


the_flock said:


> It's interesting because in the UK, Friday night has always been very good tv.
> 
> I think in America, its called the death slot because when shows are on their last legs they get moved to different days and it just so happens that's the day it dies on.
> 
> With the amount of streaming platforms we have now, it doesn't really matter what days a TV show is on.


We have 50+ years of proof of Friday night being a death slot. Hah


----------



## the_flock

bdon said:


> Putting the 2 WWE guys together is fucking awful and does nothing for the AEW production, makes them look clearly 2nd class citizen that the WWE guys aren’t competing with them.


There's so much you can do with them, that's the point. Simply having them have matches for matches sake isn't exciting. What happens in 6 months when they've wrestled everyone?


----------



## yeahright2

Not surprised the "super kliq" lost viewers.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *56,000 people decided it wasn't worth staying for the finish to his first televised match in 7 years. That's not moving the needle. In other unsurprising news, The Elite tag match lost 53,000 as well.*


Did this guy seriously try to falsely blame the Elite for the declining numbers (even though they’ve consistently been doing really well with the Dynamite ratings recently), and is he seriously still trying to discredit CM Punk’s drawing ability? 😂 

It’s like the Friday night death slot is apparently too hard to comprehend.

Edit: 

Oh, you’re still doing the redundant “excuses” gimmick. That’s how we know that your point is moot.


----------



## elo

GNKenny said:


> Rampage Quarter Breakdowns:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1445404073512034304
> The main event being the highest rated segment is shocking to me.


College football game finished about 10:30pm and it was a Big Ten game which is a key market for AEW, it was more a case of the key demo flicking over for the last 30 mins to see what was happening rather than the main event being a draw.

I really think TNT missed a trick not putting the taped Rampage's at 7pm rather than 10, run it as a lead-in to 8pm rather than the lead-outs. It would also lead to hotter crowds for the live Rampage's as the first hour would be live-to-air rather than the 2nd or 3rd.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *Preach! The same people defended the vanilla midgets in NXT doing 5-600 k for weeks on end, but now all of a sudden 650-740k is bad because Vince stepped in and featured the big muscle men. Nah, keep that same energy you had when Gargano was stinking up the joint.*


NXT managed to get 800+ K viewers SEVERAL times since they started airing on USA when guys like Johnny Gargano were highly prominent. How is he “stinking” up the ratings when none of the NXT 2.0 numbers even came close to reaching 800+ K viewers?

I SPECIFICALLY remember you gloating obnoxiously on that NXT 2.0 ratings thread in their first 2 weeks even though it was painfully obvious to everyone else that they’d see a temporary spike in the viewership since they were revamping the WHOLE SHOW. 

It took only about 13 days to *hilariously* prove you wrong when they saw a big drop in the ratings by their 3rd week even though we were repeatedly told that “stories, characters, and big muscular men” would save the ratings from the ‘dreaded’ wrestling. You don’t get to dictate who takes the blame for the ratings since you clearly don’t understand how the fluctuation in viewership works (or how temporary spikes work when an entire show gets revamped). 

Either Gargano didn’t kill the ratings at all (since he was pushed during a time when NXT’s ratings were higher) or those newer big men are actual charisma vacuums who tanked the ratings (according to your twisted definition)


----------



## Prosper

How the hell did OC at 10:45pm outdraw Bryan? This is some low key sorcery.


----------



## Whoanma

Prosper said:


> How the hell did OC at 10:45pm outdraw Bryan? This is some low key sorcery.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

* I guess we all got to shut the hell up about Jack Evans main eventing.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1445404073512034304
I knew that 500 k number was some BS though.*


----------



## THANOS

GNKenny said:


> Rampage Quarter Breakdowns:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1445404073512034304
> The main event being the highest rated segment is shocking to me.


Crazy.. Respect where it's due. Danielson is a proven draw, especially his matches, and Cassidy outdrew him against Jack Evans. That's all OC. Well done!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> * I guess we all got to shut the hell up about Jack Evans main eventing.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1445404073512034304
> I knew that 500 k number was some BS though.*


acknowledge your ginger draw king


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

THANOS said:


> Crazy.. Respect where it's due. Danielson is a proven draw, especially his matches, and Cassidy outdrew him against Jack Evans. That's all OC. Well done!


*No more timeslot nonsense if OC increased viewership after a Danielson opener against a guy no one cares about. Once again, people will watch if they think it's worth watching.*


----------



## Dark Emperor

Lmao, OC outdrawing Bryan even though his match was on later. I can't believe the Bryan hype is wearing off within 3 weeks. The dude was red hot a few years ago.

One thing we can't deny is that there is interest in Cassidy for whatever reason. If you look on Youtube, he's very prominent in AEW's most viewed clips.

Very odd. He's also drawn one of the lowest Dynamite quarters of all time with Jericho. But either way he deserves to be on TV.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

TK interview on the Wrap

“The (18-49) demo is the number that we are measured by, and that’s the chart that we receive from our partners at TNT,” Khan said. “I have a meeting with TNT executives every week and we go through the ratings. We used to just go through the ratings for ‘Dynamite,’ but now we also go through the ratings for ‘Rampage’ and look at patterns. The main thing we tend to look at is 18-49. We’ll look at different splits, by gender and different demographics, but absolutely the 18-49 overall is the bread and butter number that we always look at at the start of the meeting.”


----------



## 3venflow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> TK interview on the Wrap
> 
> “The (18-49) demo is the number that we are measured by, and that’s the chart that we receive from our partners at TNT,” Khan said. “I have a meeting with TNT executives every week and we go through the ratings. We used to just go through the ratings for ‘Dynamite,’ but now we also go through the ratings for ‘Rampage’ and look at patterns. The main thing we tend to look at is 18-49. We’ll look at different splits, by gender and different demographics, but absolutely the 18-49 overall is the bread and butter number that we always look at at the start of the meeting.”


Exactly why arguing over 1.05m or 1.25m is pointless. It should actually be arguing over 0.25 or 0.35 since that is what AEW and TNT are looking at. The '18-49' is no myth and the quote above settles it once and for all.

But hey, some people know better than the owner and the network and still think P2+ and how many boomers watch the show is the most important metric in 2021.


----------



## elo

The interesting thing is the baseball is on the station Dynamite will be on from January so would that mean it wouldn't have been live this week or moved back to TNT for the week they could run a Wednesday live show? It's whacky how TV works in the US. What we do know is Turner is cleaning up in the male demos on cable tonight with live AEW and MLB playoffs, huge night.


----------



## 3venflow

Upcoming shows, their ticket sales and what % of the current capacity that is. Miami Rampage is proving a hard sell for AEW as a standalone taping, others are moving nicely.

10/15 Rampage in Miami: 1,548 (51%)

10/16 Dynamite in Miami: 2,288 (76%)

10/23 Dynamite/Rampage in Orlando: 4,776 (71%)

10/27 Dynamite/Rampage in Boston: 5,410 (100%)

11/3: Dynamite in Kansas City: 3,011 (78%)

11/5 Rampage in St. Louis: 4,130 (70%)

11/10 Dynamite in Indianapolis: 4,485 (75%)

11/12 Rampage in Minnesota: 5,491 (75%)

11/13 Full Gear PPV in Minnesota: 9,134 (79%)


----------



## Prosper

3venflow said:


> Upcoming shows, their ticket sales and what % of the current capacity that is. Miami Rampage is proving a hard sell for AEW as a standalone taping, others are moving nicely.
> 
> 10/15 Rampage in Miami: 1,548 (51%)
> 
> 10/16 Dynamite in Miami: 2,288 (76%)
> 
> 10/23 Dynamite/Rampage in Orlando: 4,776 (71%)
> 
> 10/27 Dynamite/Rampage in Boston: 5,410 (100%)
> 
> 11/3: Dynamite in Kansas City: 3,011 (78%)
> 
> 11/5 Rampage in St. Louis: 4,130 (70%)
> 
> 11/10 Dynamite in Indianapolis: 4,485 (75%)
> 
> 11/12 Rampage in Minnesota: 5,491 (75%)
> 
> 11/13 Full Gear PPV in Minnesota: 9,134 (79%)


I thought the venue capacity for the Target Center (Full Gear) was around 20K? I guess they're not opening it all up?


----------



## 3venflow

Prosper said:


> I thought the venue capacity for the Target Center (Full Gear) was around 20K? I guess they're not opening it all up?


Right now, capacity for Rampage there is 7,332 and for Full Gear it's 11,529. They'll basically respond to demand and focus on filling the priority areas before opening more. Pretty sure they will for the PPV, not so sure about Rampage although early sales have been strong.


----------



## Joe Gill

Dark Emperor said:


> Lmao, OC outdrawing Bryan even though his match was on later. I can't believe the Bryan hype is wearing off within 3 weeks. The dude was red hot a few years ago.
> 
> One thing we can't deny is that there is interest in Cassidy for whatever reason. If you look on Youtube, he's very prominent in AEW's most viewed clips.
> 
> Very odd. He's also drawn one of the lowest Dynamite quarters of all time with Jericho. But either way he deserves to be on TV.


OC is the biggest draw in AEW for non wrestling fans who will watch him on youtube or tune in to one of his matches because he is such a unique character. He is perfect for the meme/viral generation because he stands out... and those casual/non wrestling fans dont care if its a comedy act or if it makes wrestling look stupid. Wrestlers that are not appealing to non wrestling fans arent going to move the needle. Internet wrestling fans have a hard time accepting this fact. AEW has about the same viewers they did when NXT moved to tuesdays... only a slight bump in numbers from punk and bryan.... less than 100k for regular shows. Meanwhile OC has youtube vids with 25 million views.


----------



## reamstyles

Orange cassidy darby allin and jungle boy boy even smarks hate them but like big muscle men they connect with audience.. so it doesnt really on the wrestling skills alone..


----------



## Erik.

I reckon 1,190,000 for last night.

Page is actually one of their biggest draws so intrigue may have been there and an increase is bound to happen throughout that main event.

Next two Dynamites are on Saturday aren't they? Shame that their hot momentum always seems to be halted somewhere.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite ratings*

Viewership: 1,053,000
18-49: 0.37

#4 on cable (MLB took #1 and #3)

That demo for the baseball, pro wrestling could only dream... AEW did well considering that.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite ratings*
> 
> Viewership: 1,053,000
> 18-49: 0.37
> 
> #4 on cable (MLB took #1 and #3)
> 
> That demo for the baseball, pro wrestling could only dream...


boooooo! 

who was 2nd?


----------



## 3venflow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> who was 2nd?


Season finale of Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, the F18-49 pleaser.


----------



## Joe Gill

2nd episode of rhodes to the top : 295k 🤣😂😅
they gonna cancel that shit in no time


----------



## RainmakerV2

Joe Gill said:


> 2nd episode of rhodes to the top : 295k 🤣😂😅
> they gonna cancel that shit in no time


I see 443k.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Season finale of Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, the F18-49 pleaser.


dang those saucy minxes for making us having to argue the validity of our show for another week with critics


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Joe Gill said:


> 2nd episode of rhodes to the top : 295k 🤣😂😅
> they gonna cancel that shit in no time


uhmmm - 2 shows bro

first one does a better demo than NXT

so….


----------



## Joe Gill

RainmakerV2 said:


> I see 443k.


that was the first episode... 2nd episode dropped to 295k....


----------



## Joe Gill

LifeInCattleClass said:


> uhmmm - 2 shows bro
> 
> first one does a better demo than NXT
> 
> so….


only because of the lead in of dynamite... but by the end of that narissistic crap only 295k viewers are still interested..... and its only been on tv for 2 weeks.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Joe Gill said:


> only because of the lead in of dynamite... but by the end of that narissistic crap only 295k viewers are still interested..... and its only been on tv for 2 weeks.


2nd show did a similar demo to NX`T


----------



## A PG Attitude

I don't get baseball. Gotta be one of the most boring sports to watch in the world.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

A PG Attitude said:


> I don't get baseball. Gotta be one of the most boring sports to watch in the world.


well, to be faaaiiirrrr…. They might not think much of our 5 day cricket tests either mate


----------



## A PG Attitude

LifeInCattleClass said:


> well, to be faaaiiirrrr…. They might not think much of our 5 day cricket tests either mate


Cricket definitely beats baseball.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

LifeInCattleClass said:


> well, to be faaaiiirrrr…. They might not think much of our 5 day cricket tests either mate



Both shit 😂


----------



## 3venflow

They separated Rhodes to the Top into two 30 minute 'shows' (half hour one #15, half hour two #36), averaging 369k and 0.16 over the hour.

I think Rhodes to the Top could get a renewal if it doesn't bottom out too low. Cheap content but making the top 50 late at night is good for TNT. It beat NXT in the key demo for the second week running.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

3venflow said:


> It beat NXT in the key demo for the second week running.


I can see this becoming a meme


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

A PG Attitude said:


> Cricket definitely beats baseball.


50-over or 20/20 definitely beats baseball

5 day tests? Ehhhhhh


----------



## A PG Attitude

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 50-over or 20/20 definitely beats baseball
> 
> 5 day tests? Ehhhhhh


Don't think I've watched a 5 day test match for about twenty years I used to enjoy watching them in the school summer holidays but who has time to watch 5 days of cricket as an adult 🤣


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

A PG Attitude said:


> Don't think I've watched a 5 day test match for about twenty years I used to enjoy watching them in the school summer holidays but who has time to watch 5 days of cricket as an adult 🤣


5 day tests after school with a bowl of cereal instead of doing homework

blissss!


----------



## validreasoning

3venflow said:


> Exactly why arguing over 1.05m or 1.25m is pointless. It should actually be arguing over 0.25 or 0.35 since that is what AEW and TNT are looking at. The '18-49' is no myth and the quote above settles it once and for all.
> 
> But hey, some people know better than the owner and the network and still think P2+ and how many boomers watch the show is the most important metric in 2021.


Chris Harrington basically said the network doesn't care about 18-49 so someone is lying..


----------



## fabi1982

Mediocre number for their anniversary show. Basically everyone besides Miro was on…


----------



## Geert Wilders

It is a good and expected rating, considering what else is on. As far as everyone is concerned, anything 1 million and up is a win.


----------



## Sad Panda

Considering the extremely tough competition, this is a good rating.

Those one game playoffs are big time draws. And the matchup was between two stellar, very popular teams.


----------



## elo

tbs and TNT are sister channels so it's a big night for Turner, unfortunate for Dynamite it fell on the same night as a 1 off wild-card game from big market cities (could have been worse if they bumped into the Yanks v Sox match-up) but it shows everyone that tbs is worthy of being Dynamite's new home come January 5th.

On to the Saturday shows......eek. (holding above a million would be incredible)


----------



## A PG Attitude

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 5 day tests after school with a bowl of cereal instead of doing homework
> 
> blissss!


Ah man that takes me back to watching Raw on Friday nights from 98 to 2000. Me my brother and cousin would stay up watching Raw eating bowls of rice krispies while parents were at the pub 🤣


----------



## 3venflow

validreasoning said:


> Chris Harrington basically said the network doesn't care about 18-49 so someone is lying..


Harrington was talking about what the advertisers are interested in. He said things like sold out arenas and corporate synergy (ie. Godzilla vs. Kong / Jurassics vs. Bear Country, and the recent basketball thing) are of particular interest to them. But obviously there has to BE an existing fanbase for these things to happen, hence where the 18-49 comes into play. It's no good doing a Godzilla vs. Kong tie-in if you have a 0.04 rating in the 18-49.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*This is why you don't make stupid claims about starting a new era, bringing back dormant fans, and beating RAW in ratings.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446215875347066881*


----------



## Dr. Middy

The Legit DMD said:


> *This is why you don't make stupid claims about starting a new era, bringing back dormant fans, and beating RAW in ratings.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446215875347066881*


Tony aside, I still find this twitter account pathetic and sad.


----------



## Geert Wilders

The Legit DMD said:


> *This is why you don't make stupid claims about starting a new era, bringing back dormant fans, and beating RAW in ratings.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446215875347066881*


i think anybody who is not overly optimistic guessed this would be the case when punk/bd debuted

i said they would get to their normal routine rating in november.


----------



## A PG Attitude

All they've gotta do is stay the course keep putting on entertaining shows like they did last night and eventually ratings will gradually increase. It could be years before we see significant increase or it could be six months but you can't deny the live crowds are turning up and loving what they are being given.


----------



## Erik.

Jesus christ, MLB did a 1.73.


----------



## elo

That tweet from Tony says nothing about domestic TV ratings;


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1445072199971377152
Technically Tony's tweet from August 20th is right based on the data in that tweet, AEW is trending +8 whilst WWE held firm at -0.1 - that indicates dormant wrestling fans or WWE fans searching for other wrestling. The key is keeping them actively interested in your product, will take a solid 6+ months of data to see if the trend holds.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Erik. said:


> Jesus christ, MLB did a 1.73.


Yeah as a huge baseball fan both wildcard games were in huge markets. LA and St. Louis are both big baseball markets, and I think the Yankees and Red Sox did a 2.0 I believe in the demo.

Nice to see them being able to attract big time viewership.


----------



## ThenWo/WCW

A PG Attitude said:


> All they've gotta do is stay the course keep putting on entertaining shows like they did last night and eventually ratings will gradually increase. It could be years before we see significant increase or it could be six months but you can't deny the live crowds are turning up and loving what they are being given.



AEW won't grow and the rating won't grow
AEW = INDY wrestling on tv

aew fans don't want to accept the truth

AEW won't beat WWE and it won't be the next WCW

do you know why ??

Because AEW = ROH ON TV

I am telling the truth

I don't hate AEW.. I wish them success

But I hate the style of indy wrestling

One of the reasons for the decline in the WWE ratings is the women's revolution and the style of indie wrestling


----------



## P Thriller

As a non hardcore AEW fan, I turned off the show pretty quick last night. The opening match was kind of a crap fest with botching and horrible reffing and psychology. Then there was way too much of the usual multi person brawls and run ins. By the time the ladder match came around I was long gone. Plus they are really blowing it with CM Punk right now. If he wants to face young talent, go for it. But I don't understand coming out every week to cut a promo that goes nowhere and makes no sense. 

A million every week isn't the end of the world. I just feel like there are things holding them back. I feel like they have the talent and imagination and smarts to get to 2 million a week but they have this nasty overly Indy stench to some of their stuff that I think turns away new viewers.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

The Legit DMD said:


> *This is why you don't make stupid claims about starting a new era, bringing back dormant fans, and beating RAW in ratings.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446215875347066881*


Please dont shill that dude on here ..dude is pathetic


----------



## Erik.

Lol at Rhodes to the Top doing better than NXT by the way.


----------



## fabi1982

The Legit DMD said:


> *This is why you don't make stupid claims about starting a new era, bringing back dormant fans, and beating RAW in ratings.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446215875347066881*


Bbbbbbbbbbbbut baseball…


----------



## ProjectGargano

ThenWo/WCW said:


> AEW won't grow and the rating won't grow
> AEW = INDY wrestling on tv
> 
> aew fans don't want to accept the truth
> 
> AEW won't beat WWE and it won't be the next WCW
> 
> do you know why ??
> 
> Because AEW = ROH ON TV
> 
> I am telling the truth
> 
> I don't hate AEW.. I wish them success
> 
> But I hate the style of indy wrestling
> 
> One of the reasons for the decline in the WWE ratings is the women's revolution and the style of indie wrestling


Shut up man.


----------



## Erik.

Dr. Middy said:


> Yeah as a huge baseball fan both wildcard games were in huge markets. LA and St. Louis are both big baseball markets, and I think the Yankees and Red Sox did a 2.0 I believe in the demo.
> 
> Nice to see them being able to attract big time viewership.


I personally can't think of a worse sport than Baseball, but 1.73 and 2.0 are no fucking joke.


----------



## cai1981

1.053M for Dynamite last night with 0.37 in the 18-49 demo.

I give them credit for cracking a million as I thought sure it wouldn't make it. But, the MLB gave them a blow in the demo. 

MLB playoffs and World Series as well as the return of the NBA and NHL are all going to be head to head with Dynamite over the next couple of weeks. So, they are going to have a rough ride from here.


----------



## THANOS

fabi1982 said:


> Mediocre number for their anniversary show. Basically everyone besides Miro was on…


Context buddy. They aren't going to beat a Dodgers/Cards wildcard playoff game.


----------



## fabi1982

P Thriller said:


> As a non hardcore AEW fan, I turned off the show pretty quick last night. The opening match was kind of a crap fest with botching and horrible reffing and psychology. Then there was way too much of the usual multi person brawls and run ins. By the time the ladder match came around I was long gone. Plus they are really blowing it with CM Punk right now. If he wants to face young talent, go for it. But I don't understand coming out every week to cut a promo that goes nowhere and makes no sense.
> 
> A million every week isn't the end of the world. I just feel like there are things holding them back. I feel like they have the talent and imagination and smarts to get to 2 million a week but they have this nasty overly Indy stench to some of their stuff that I think turns away new viewers.


Yeah thats what I said, the show way praised like jesus from the AEW hardcores, but they watch anyways. I felt similar to you, I just pulled through, was not excited at all. They do cater to the 1.2m fans they have, not sure this is a good thing moving forward.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Been said before a difference of a few hundred thousand from week to week isn't that big of a shift up or down


----------



## cai1981

Erik. said:


> I personally can't think of a worse sport than Baseball, but 1.73 and 2.0 are no fucking joke.


MLB lost a lot of popularity over the last 2 decades. It can even be said they are now 3rd behind the NFL and NBA. 

However they draw far better TV numbers than wrestling. Dynamite is going to have to contend with the MLB and World Series the next few weeks as well as the NBA and NHL.

Last night may be the last time AEW sees 1M for a while. I do give them credit however for getting it against an MLB one and done game with 2 very popular teams.


----------



## fabi1982

THANOS said:


> Context buddy. They aren't going to beat a Dodgers/Cards wildcard playoff game.


But doesnt the same scenario happens when there is a 3.7 demo on monday? So if this is no excuse then, why should I care about baseball of all fucking sports?

and no one said anything about beating.


----------



## Erik.

cai1981 said:


> MLB lost a lot of popularity over the last 2 decades. It can even be said they are now 3rd behind the NFL and NBA.
> 
> However they draw far better TV numbers than wrestling. Dynamite is going to have to contend with the MLB and World Series the next few weeks as well as the NBA and NHL.
> 
> Last night may be the last time AEW sees 1M for a while. I do give them credit however for getting it against an MLB one and done game with 2 very popular teams.


Absolutely.

They are on Saturday for the next 2 weeks aren't they? Would be unreal if they got a million for any of those shows, but id expect 700k at most.


----------



## yeahright2

Ratings for this weeks Dynamite 
Once again @3venflow nailed it.. I´ve said it before, I think he has some inside information 

AEW Ratings prediction game (now in a stickied thread)

They follow their pattern of dropping viewers. Not many, but it´s still a drop, and something they should analyze. 
Personally I didn´t think the episode was that great except for Hangmans somewhat predictable return. What was the deal with Christian getting injured and basically making it a handicap match? And the Bucks + the goons spoiled what could have been a good match.


----------



## Geert Wilders

yeahright2 said:


> Ratings for this weeks Dynamite
> Once again @3venflow nailed it.. I´ve said it before, I think he has some inside information
> 
> AEW Ratings prediction game (now in a stickied thread)
> 
> They follow their pattern of dropping viewers. Not many, but it´s still a drop, and something they should analyze.
> Personally I didn´t think the episode was that great except for Hangmans somewhat predictable return. What was the deal with Christian getting injured and basically making it a handicap match? And the Bucks + the goons spoiled what could have been a good match.


i do not believe that there is a pattern of dropping viewers. It is simply casual viewers only watching when:
1. there's nothing better to watch
2. it is a big show.

You cannot make every show a big show. This was a good rating. The concern should be if they drop below a million at any point. Anything above a million is acceptable and they should only grow as word of mouth spreads.

Now if we look at the show in a year and it's still at 1 million (or even less), they are going wrong somewhere.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

The Legit DMD said:


> *This is why you don't make stupid claims about starting a new era, bringing back dormant fans, and beating RAW in ratings.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446215875347066881*


 What a salty, insecure tweet.


----------



## yeahright2

Geert Wilders said:


> i do not believe that there is a pattern of dropping viewers. It is simply casual viewers only watching when:
> 1. there's nothing better to watch
> 2. it is a big show.
> 
> You cannot make every show a big show. This was a good rating. The concern should be if they drop below a million at any point. Anything above a million is acceptable and they should only grow as word of mouth spreads.
> 
> Now if we look at the show in a year and it's still at 1 million (or even less), they are going wrong somewhere.


There is a pattern. I run the weekly game, so I maybe that´s why I´ve noticed it. Next week should be higher again if they follow the pattern.. The only thing that will interupt the pattern is if they make a huge signing like Punk or Bryan, or a big show like Grand Slam. But maybe @3venflow has something to say about that? He´s very accurate with the ratings. (sorry for bringing you into this, but there has to be a reason why you´ve won the game so many times over the last few months)

And this week, with the 8 man tag should be a rather big show given who was in it, and the expected return of Hangman.

Above 1 million isn´t a bad number, but they shouldn´t settle for that.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Not a good number considering the momentum and hype they've had, plus it being a special show. It's still fine as long as this is the low end of things, but the fact it lost viewers from last week despite this week being a more special show with essentially a #1 contender's match for the World Title as the main event isn't a good look. I don't hold this on Adam Page since he wasn't advertised and there was only speculation (not to the point it was totally obvious he was the joker though), but also since the next couple of shows are Saturday shows (if I'm correct) it's not like we're going to see the full effect of his return.

Also I've got no issue with Punk playing the cheerful babyface who's getting loved by the fans... because he is getting the right big reactions for that type of character. Thing is, he just went out there and cut a promo and did nothing. No doubt Punk/Starks will be a thing, probably for Full Gear given the timing. However they could have done more with Punk/Team Taz without Starks to hold things over until Cage/Starks is done on Rampage. Instead he just cut a promo, and that was it. They should be keeping the feud with Taz going strong, not taking a break for Punk to wrestle Garcia (even though I think for other reasons it's not a bad idea for Punk to wrestle Garcia, but yeah). Dropping the ball in ways like that is why AEW has trouble maintaining momentum.


----------



## Geert Wilders

yeahright2 said:


> There is a pattern. I run the weekly game, so I maybe that´s why I´ve noticed it. Next week should be higher again if they follow the pattern.. The only thing that will interupt the pattern is if they make a huge signing like Punk or Bryan, or a big show like Grand Slam. But maybe @3venflow has something to say about that? He´s very accurate with the ratings. (sorry for bringing you into this, but there has to be a reason why you´ve won the game so many times over the last few months)
> 
> And this week, with the 8 man tag should be a rather big show given who was in it, and the expected return of Hangman.
> 
> Above 1 million isn´t a bad number, but they shouldn´t settle for that.


agree with this. Rome was not built in one day so we should not expect high ratings immediately. 

Shows which re overnight successes tend to fade out quickly, or drop to a basic and minimum rating. AEW has done this twice now (their pilot and when Punk debuted). It should only grow from here.

There is a reason why they only reported the squid game successes as looking at the number of people who only watched the first ten minutes. I expected a massive drop off - that show will only grow as word of mouth spreads. Same with AEW.


----------



## yeahright2

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Not a good number considering the momentum and hype they've had, plus it being a special show. It's still fine as long as this is the low end of things, but the fact it lost viewers from last week despite this week being a more special show with essentially a #1 contender's match for the World Title as the main event isn't a good look. I don't hold this on Adam Page since he wasn't advertised and there was only speculation (not to the point it was totally obvious he was the joker though), *but also since the next couple of shows are Saturday shows (if I'm correct) it's not like we're going to see the full effect of his return.*


It´s a Saturday show? Okay, scratch what I said about them getting a higher number next week.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

I don't see them dropping back under a million atleast. 

They need to do more with Punk than just challenging randoms ..he Needs to get out there on wenaday becusae rampage won't do great no matter what you throw at it in that time slot and I do belive them splitting big matches with rampage is hurting them right now

And honestly they need some more stories as much as I love the wreslting portion they don't have very many big stories going on 
....like mjf and Brian Jr should've went on longer even tho they don't like doing rematches some stories need them


----------



## DaSlacker

fabi1982 said:


> Yeah thats what I said, the show way praised like jesus from the AEW hardcores, but they watch anyways. I felt similar to you, I just pulled through, was not excited at all. They do cater to the 1.2m fans they have, not sure this is a good thing moving forward.


It's not even that they are indy lite. They are just very very similar to WWE, or 21st century sports entertainment. More consistent than WWE. More palatable and the characters feel more important. But you have matches that look like video games as opposed to fights, dives with obvious catching, very little refereeing, choreographed ladder matches featuring a lot of waiting around, mid match comedy, plywood table spots etc. 

Think about it like this. WWE continued down that direction and went from 5 million viewers to 1.8 million in the space of a decade. It's unlikely AEW, with a similar approach, is able to move the numbers upwards from what they have with Punk and Danielson. Even more recognisable faces like Rotunda, Steen, Hardy, Styles, Batista might hit 1.4 a couple of times. A gripping storyline or some crazy soap opera style angle might hit 1.6 a couple of times. Apart from that it's unlikely they ever increase viewership.


----------



## Dark Emperor

The Rock was right, Punk was never a major draw and this is going to be proven right over time the longer he sticks around. Even his Youtube vids are much lower numbers now.

I'm really surprised Bryan has not brought over more fans though, that 1.3m he drew, i thought the majority would stay.


----------



## RapShepard

* Tracking Ratings With Rap Shepard*

Let's see the Rampage numbers without Punk

Rampage #1- 740k .31 demo

Dynamite 8/18- 975k .35 demo

Rampage #2 with Punk- 1.129 million .53 demo

Dynamite 8/25 with Punk- 1.172 million .48 demo

Rampage #3 no Punk- 722k .34 demo

Dynamite 9/1 - 1.047 .37 demo

Rampage #4 with Punk- 696k .30 demo

Dynamite 9/8 with Punk, Bryan, and Cole- 1.31 million .53 demo

Rampage #5 No Punk, Bryan, or Cole- 670k .27 demo

Dynamite 9/15 with Punk, Cole, and Bryan- 1.175 million .44 demo

Rampage #6 no Punk, Cole, or Bryan - 642k .28 demo

Dynamite 9/22 Bryan vs Omega- 1.273 million .48 demo

Rampage #7 Punk vs Hobbs- 640k .28 demo

Dynamite 9/30 with Punk, Bryan, and Cole- 1.152 million .45 demo

Rampage #8 Bryan vs Nick Jackson- 622k .25 demo 

Dynamite 10/6 The Super Elite vs Bryan's ragtag group of merry men- 1.05 million .37 demo


----------



## elo

Botchy SinCara said:


> I don't see them dropping back under a million atleast.


Show is on Saturday for the next 2 weeks, it's going under a million unless the cards are insane and so far all we have is a 6 man tag with Inner Circle vs Dan Lambert's crew....I think Tony's not going to book much for either show tbh.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I'd be absolutely panicking if I were Tony. You bring in 2 huge stars from the WWE and the guy who was your main rival in the "Wednesday Night Wars" and you're now back to the number you were doing before they turned up. Millions and millions of dollars just gone down the drain.




3venflow said:


> Exactly why arguing over 1.05m or 1.25m is pointless. It should actually be arguing over 0.25 or 0.35 since that is what AEW and TNT are looking at. The '18-49' is no myth and the quote above settles it once and for all.
> 
> But hey, some people know better than the owner and the network and still think P2+ and how many boomers watch the show is the most important metric in 2021.


Again though, advertisers don't care to advertise to the AEW audience.


----------



## RapShepard

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'd be absolutely panicking if I were Tony. You bring in 2 huge stars from the WWE and the guy who was your main rival in the "Wednesday Night Wars" and you're now back to the number you were doing before they turned up. Millions and millions of dollars just gone down the drain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again though, advertisers don't care to advertise to the AEW audience.


What do you make of this


----------



## Chip Chipperson

RapShepard said:


> What do you make of this


I don't really like to overly analyse the numbers but it isn't a good look of course. AEW were legitimately saying this was it and they were going to bring a new audience in but within 4 weeks anyone giving them a chance has now gone.

A total waste of money hence why I'd be panicking.


----------



## 3venflow

Chip Chipperson said:


> A total waste of money hence why I'd be panicking.




Punk literally paid off most of his salary through day one merchandise sales at The First Dance.

AEW is selling more tickets than ever before (Grand Slam was a $1m gate, something even WCW didn't manage despite having some bigger attendances), more merchandise and did its record PPV buyrate. The 18-49 demo - the most important rating metric - has still been very strong besides this week (which is still better than most of last year) due to the stronger than usual competition. Even if it wasn't, the TV deal is fixed anyway, so they're neither going to make more or less money from that until renewal day, except for corporate crossovers like they did with the Space Jam 2 movie not long ago.

As a promoter, I thought you'd know this stuff. But as always, you're being a bad faith actor.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*I love to see the shitty elite tag matches consistently tanking the show's ratings. Even Bryan can't save them. People will run out of excuses for this shit eventually.*


----------



## La Parka

The Legit DMD said:


> *I love to see the shitty elite tag matches consistently tanking the show's ratings. Even Bryan can't save them. People will run out of excuses for this shit eventually.*


jesus could return mid match and you still wouldn’t get Christian’s to watch that horse shit of a “wrestling” match


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

La Parka said:


> jesus could return mid match and you still wouldn’t get Christian’s to watch that horse shit of a “wrestling” match


*The best part is JR burying the dumbass referee and every heel involved.*


----------



## 3venflow

The only TNT and USA Network shows to make the cable top 150 in the last week.

Pro wrestling is more important to these networks than many realise.


----------



## thorn123

That’s ridiculous. There is not much more AEW can do. Their booking has been on point. They are just not producing what the lapsed fan wants. I read all these ideas about what they need to do to attract viewers and I don’t think any would gain any traction. They just need to stumble across a new rock hogan or Austin.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *I love to see the shitty elite tag matches consistently tanking the show's ratings. Even Bryan can't save them. People will run out of excuses for this shit eventually.*


I'll laugh my butt off if the Elite's match/segment turns out to be one of the highest rated segments on the show (yet again).

Just because you have this irrational hatred with the Elite's existence, and your obnoxious determination in wanting to see those men "fail," doesn't mean that everybody else shares the same mentality.

It's pretty obvious that you're the one who keeps moving the goalposts, and making excuses to suit your false, twisted narratives.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> What do you make of this


mmmm…. AEW in 4th and WWE in 6,7,8 on their respective nights

thanks for pointing it out


----------



## RainmakerV2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> mmmm…. AEW in 4th and WWE in 6,7,8 on their respective nights
> 
> thanks for pointing it out


Or one could take it WWE had much stiffer competition and still almost doubled AEWs audience in the first hour.


----------



## DaSlacker

Chip Chipperson said:


> I don't really like to overly analyse the numbers but it isn't a good look of course. AEW were legitimately saying this was it and they were going to bring a new audience in but within 4 weeks anyone giving them a chance has now gone.
> 
> A total waste of money hence why I'd be panicking.


You can be preoccupied with growth but you've still got to keep your loyal customers happy.


----------



## holy

Dark Emperor said:


> The Rock was right, Punk was never a major draw and this is going to be proven right over time the longer he sticks around. Even his Youtube vids are much lower numbers now.
> 
> *I'm really surprised Bryan has not brought over more fans though, that 1.3m he drew, i thought the majority would stay.*


 It's because the dude just goes out there and wrestles. That's all he does. Or he comes out in the same white shirt every week to get AEW's fans excited about the prospect of wrestling Kenny Omega.

I like Bryan, but his run in AEW has been kinda boring so far. I've been watching Dynamite weekly ever since he came, but I don't even feel like watching next week.


----------



## thorn123

I haven’t watched the fed in 3 years so I cannot comment … is there anyone out there who watches raw and dynamite that can remain as unbiased as possible … is Raw 800 000 worth of viewers better than dynamite?


----------



## fabi1982

3venflow said:


> Punk literally paid off most of his salary through day one merchandise sales at The First Dance.
> 
> AEW is selling more tickets than ever before (Grand Slam was a $1m gate, something even WCW didn't manage despite having some bigger attendances), more merchandise and did its record PPV buyrate. The 18-49 demo - the most important rating metric - has still been very strong besides this week (which is still better than most of last year) due to the stronger than usual competition. Even if it wasn't, the TV deal is fixed anyway, so they're neither going to make more or less money from that until renewal day, except for corporate crossovers like they did with the Space Jam 2 movie not long ago.
> 
> As a promoter, I thought you'd know this stuff. But as always, you're being a bad faith actor.


I dont want to agrue with you that Chips post is exaggerated, as always...but your points are also not very strong. 

Punk selling merchandise paying off his salery...so this was what? A TK tweet/comment in an interview? Did you see numbers? I dont see everyone in the audience now wearing Punks shirt. This is the same TK giving a lot of bullshit comments.

AEW selling more tickets. Yeah they do, but at what cost? Do you know how much it costs to rent the AA stadium compared to a 5k venue? So yeah maybe the gate is higher, but is the profit? I didnt see any numbers and I guess you didnt either, so why fight stupid with such guesses.

How much more merchandise? And again a private company can tell you whatever they want.

I never see a public number for PPVs besides the likes of Melzer etc., so of course they got more people buying the PPV but was it "enough"?

So your points are (until you show me numbers) just a fan preaching TKs stupid "truth". Again I am on your side that AEW is not in any danger, your points just dont proof anything.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> mmmm…. AEW in 4th and WWE in 6,7,8 on their respective nights
> 
> thanks for pointing it out


----------



## Fearless Viper

So much for competing against Raw. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1436110780399771657


----------



## Sad Panda

So is the whole point in belittling AEW and the tv numbers is to get back at the fans? Or put guys like Jericho in his place? I don’t understand the end game.

Same for those that bring it up as a way to fuck with WWE and their fans. Just seems like a waste of energy when at the end of the day it’s a fucking wrestling company.

There’s more than enough room for both companies. Who gives a shit who pops the bigger rating other than looking to pat yourself on the back or to tell some dude on a message board “I told you so”? With a bunch of emojis to emphasize your point. Like, what the fuck? Watch the show, enjoy the show… or don’t and move on.

Seems pretty simple.

and to be clear, this is directed at no one in particular.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RainmakerV2 said:


> Or one could take it WWE had much stiffer competition and still almost doubled AEWs audience in the first hour.


isn’t Baseball America’s pastime though?


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

LifeInCattleClass said:


> isn’t Baseball America’s pastime though?


The NFL is so much more popular than the MLB it isn't even funny. The NBA is arguably more popular than the MLB too, especially with younger people. The Dodgers/Cardinals game Dynamite went up against averaged 6.7M viewers.

The Monday Night Football game Raw went against did 12.86M, 3.99 in the demo, the 2 sports aren't even in the same stratosphere when it comes to popularity.

Even college football is watched by a lot more people than the MLB is.


----------



## Shaun_27

holy said:


> It's because the dude just goes out there and wrestles. That's all he does. Or he comes out in the same white shirt every week to get AEW's fans excited about the prospect of wrestling Kenny Omega.
> 
> I like Bryan, but his run in AEW has been kinda boring so far. I've been watching Dynamite weekly ever since he came, but I don't even feel like watching next week.


They have completely mishandled both Bryan and Punk. They got the two biggest stars they could feasibly get and they already feel like just other guys on the roster.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> The NFL is so much more popular than the MLB it isn't even funny. The NBA is arguably more popular than the MLB too, especially with younger people. The Dodgers/Cardinals game Dynamite went up against averaged 6.7M viewers.
> 
> The Monday Night Football game Raw went against did 12.86M, 3.99 in the demo, the 2 sports aren't even in the same stratosphere when it comes to popularity.
> 
> Even college football is watched by a lot more people than the MLB is.


is baseball America’s pastime though?


----------



## reamstyles

3venflow said:


> The only TNT and USA Network shows to make the cable top 150 in the last week.
> 
> Pro wrestling is more important to these networks than many realise.
> 
> View attachment 109954


But why tnt will move dynamite in tbs where they just put them in days without nba just like wcw..aew should assert themselves more to the network and not other way around


----------



## Erik.

reamstyles said:


> But why tnt will move dynamite in tbs where they just put them in days without nba just like wcw..aew should assert themselves more to the network and not other way around


I am sure I saw that hockey is coming to TNT and I believe they wanted Dynamite to have a more consistent schedule instead of having to move days like they have with Friday and Saturday shows.

I believe TNT will still have some of the special Dynamite shows like Bash at the Beach, Winters Coming etc.

Theyre also being paid extra for it. Its a win win situation for both AEW and Turner. And whilst its not alot, TBS is in more homes too.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> is baseball America’s pastime though?


Depends on your age and how much you respect sports history


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Depends on your age and how much you respect sports history


lol - you know i’m just yanking the chain brother - let me have my fun with the hysterics


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol - you know i’m just yanking the chain brother - let me have my fun with the hysterics


Oh I thought you had a genuine question lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Oh I thought you had a genuine question lol


lol, no

seems people think i was serious when i said to you ‘aew is in position 4 and wwe was in 5,6,7’  

and now we are discussing the ‘competition on the night - baseball vs nfl - who is bigger’


----------



## Prized Fighter

RapShepard said:


> Depends on your age and how much you respect sports history


Regular season baseball is a chore to get though, but playoff baseball is more exciting does pull in more people. It has always been weird to me that MLB has such a long regular season considering how well baseball lends itself to short sprint series.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Sad Panda said:


> So is the whole point in belittling AEW and the tv numbers is to get back at the fans? Or put guys like Jericho in his place? I don’t understand the end game.
> 
> Same for those that bring it up as a way to fuck with WWE and their fans. Just seems like a waste of energy when at the end of the day it’s a fucking wrestling company.
> 
> There’s more than enough room for both companies. Who gives a shit who pops the bigger rating other than looking to pat yourself on the back or to tell some dude on a message board “I told you so”? With a bunch of emojis to emphasize your point. Like, what the fuck? Watch the show, enjoy the show… or don’t and move on.
> 
> Seems pretty simple.
> 
> and to be clear, this is directed at no one in particular.


*Here's your answer:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446472663644393475
Tony, Jericho, and the obnoxious fans constantly scream everywhere that WWE is dying, AEW is taking over, they're starting a new era, and a bunch of other bullshit, then have every excuse in the world when ratings are exactly the same as they were before 3 massive signings and the most stacked, PPV level Dynamite of all time. They constantly eat their words and keep coming back with more petty, unprovoked shots at WWE. It's ridiculous. Just run your program and let the quality speak for itself.*


----------



## holy

Shaun_27 said:


> They have completely mishandled both Bryan and Punk. They got the two biggest stars they could feasibly get and they already feel like just other guys on the roster.


100% agreed.

I mentioned this in the Dynamite thread this week: it boggles my mind that neither Bryan or Punk are ever given main event segments on Dynamite. They usually show up in the first hour or so and they come for about 10 minutes each.

Any casual viewer watching probably gets the impression that Bryan and Punk are making "guest appearances" in AEW (as you would see in the credits of a film) rather than being main stars on the show.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

That face when your reality show only draws in 1/3 of the viewers Miz & Mrs does:









Since I have to spell it out, yes I'm fucking around.


----------



## DaSlacker

DaveRA said:


> I haven’t watched the fed in 3 years so I cannot comment … is there anyone out there who watches raw and dynamite that can remain as unbiased as possible … is Raw 800 000 worth of viewers better than dynamite?


I've watched a few episodes of Raw this year. There are some decent matches and when they tone down the wrestlecrap it's fine enough. If one likes slightly more psychological matches and bigger guys and really likes that WWE aura. Then I suppose it is the more desirable product. 

But you're left with very little desire to watch the next episode. I don't get that with AEW.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> That face when your reality show only draws in 1/3 of the viewers Miz & Mrs does:
> View attachment 109974


Isn’t Cody Rhodes and company outperforming NXT 2.0 in some metric?


----------



## Savage Elbow

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> That face when your reality show only draws in 1/3 of the viewers Miz & Mrs does:
> View attachment 109974


That's what happens when your 2 flagship weekly shows only draw 1/3 the viewers of "the other company's" main shows


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446520612013461516

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Prized Fighter

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446520612013461516
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am not going to read too much into the quarterly ratings, but I wouldn't be shocked if fans were tuning out for the Dan Lambert stuff. It was fine in the beginning, but he is getting very repetitive and facing Jericho isn't helping. They would be better off having Sammy face Masvidal or Ethan Page for the TNT title. That puts American Top Teams biggest names out front. I also wouldn't be shocked if the 6 man match loses viewers next week.


----------



## Not Lying

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446520612013461516
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lol i love this 4 week trend line they added.

Q5 should feature only stars, not Darby vs a jobber and then a lower-card talking before getting attacked. You put the biggest names against the biggest names at the top of the hour. Otherwise, the show held up pretty good, and an excellent sign that the main event increased viewers that much.

Thanks


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol - you know i’m just yanking the chain brother - let me have my fun with the hysterics


Oh you can wank my chain musti 😘


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Ladder match drawing big, as it should have. Lowest quarter still basically 1M, which is solid. Still not a great overall number, but quarter numbers do make it look a little better.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Oh you can wank my chain musti 😘


fabi…brother…. Not in the open like this


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> Lol i love this 4 week trend line they added.
> 
> Q5 should feature only stars, not Darby vs a jobber and then a lower-card talking before getting attacked. You put the biggest names against the biggest names at the top of the hour. Otherwise, the show held up pretty good, and an excellent sign that the main event increased viewers that much.
> 
> Thanks


*I was about to say the same thing. These Darby vs jobber matches are killing his numbers. He used to be a consistent top draw as TNT champion, but he's been on a downward spiral since getting stuck in useless matches with Daniel Garcia, 2.0, Shawn Spears, and other guys no one knows or cares about. He should do better once they focus on his feud with MJF.*


----------



## THANOS

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446520612013461516
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looking at this I have below comments on the 3 peaks:

Q1. Danielson was dragged down a bit by Jurrasic Express & Christian who are not draws

Q4. I think the TBS Title announcement may have been the true peak of this quarter but would need the minute breakdown to be certain. The intrigue of something new is always a draw.

Q8. This could be a combo of three things. One, the match itself had a ton of starpower with Moxley
& OC being particularly big draws. Two, the intrigue of the Joker is a griping thing to tune in for. And three, Hangman is, and always has been, a draw and taking the title off Kenny will most likely only cement this.


----------



## THANOS

The Legit DMD said:


> *I was about to say the same thing. These Darby vs jobber matches are killing his numbers. He used to be a consistent top draw as TNT champion, but he's been on a downward spiral since getting stuck in useless matches with Daniel Garcia, 2.0, Shawn Spears, and other guys no one knows or cares about. He should do better once they focus on his feud with MJF.*


Agreed. Both Darby and Black have been draws for AEW so we need to point at everything else in that quarter as the reason for the tank. Dante Martin is still an unknown and it will take awhile to make him a draw (maybe this feud with Black will help). QT Marshall & his crew of jobbers are massive anti-draws. Keep them off the show until Ogogo returns, and at that point, only use them so you can air a segment where Ogogo discards them as garbage and joins a better group like Team Taz.


----------



## holy

Punk losing viewers is alarming and probably is caused by what many are now saying online: he can't just show up every week "happy to be there" and then challenge a jobber to a match on the Friday night show that barely anyone watches.


----------



## Not Lying

holy said:


> Punk losing viewers is alarming and probably is caused by what many are now saying online: he can't just show up every week "happy to be there" and then challenge a jobber to a match on the Friday night show that barely anyone watches.


He didn't really lose viewers, 12k difference is nothing, considering there was an ad break in Q2 and none inn Q1.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> He didn't really lose viewers, 12k difference is nothing, considering there was an ad break in Q2 and none inn Q1.


*His premise is correct though. This routine grew old quickly and it's reflecting in the ratings. You know how I feel about AJ Lee and I would say the same thing if she were screaming "I LOVE BRITT BAKER, THIS ROSTER IS GREAT! 😀" every week and facing Abaddon and The Bunny in throwaway matches.*


----------



## omaroo

People hating on ratings going down and saying AEW growth has stagnated.

How sad can haters be when they have nothing better to do do with their time.


----------



## holy

The Definition of Technician said:


> He didn't really lose viewers, 12k difference is nothing, considering there was an ad break in Q2 and none inn Q1.


But the thing is, they always show that graphic at the bottom of the screen saying "CM Punk speaks live next!" 

Even with that graphic, 12,000 fans still deciding to leave and not tune into his segment is a bit alarming. 

If he grew the audience? Great. Maintained? Fine. But losing viewers...idk.


----------



## Randy Lahey

A great show that deserved better than 0.37. Demo for sure disappointing even given the competition.

Once again the huge number in the main event relative to rest of the show shows what a failure Britt/Soho was in that spot at grand slam.

I think the formula needs to be to put a great match leading off hour 1, leading off hour 2, and main event. Looks like Housewives/Challenge should be finishing up soon so that will help their female demos


----------



## Not Lying

holy said:


> But the thing is, they always show that graphic at the bottom of the screen saying "CM Punk speaks live next!"
> 
> Even with that graphic, 12,000 fans still deciding to leave and not tune into his segment is a bit alarming.
> 
> If he grew the audience? Great. Maintained? Fine. But losing viewers...idk.


No, you can't say he lost viewers unless you have the minute by minute breakdown, in fact, considering it was a small difference, i'm willing to bet Punk drew more viewers for his segments than Q1






This is one example of looking at min by min, if for Q2 during the couple of min break they dropped by 100K viewers who came back and more for Punk, that's not bad on him. 



The Legit DMD said:


> *His premise is correct though. This routine grew old quickly and it's reflecting in the ratings. You know how I feel about AJ Lee and I would say the same thing if she were screaming "I LOVE BRITT BAKER, THIS ROSTER IS GREAT! 😀" every week and facing Abaddon and The Bunny in throwaway matches.*


For the premise yes, Punk should increase the ratings further, but AEW is doing the same thing now with Punk they had Sting do at first, 'Come in and repeat the same thing over and over again till they find the right footing for him'. 
Let's put it this way though: Danielson came in and is going after the head (Omega) immediately, he is literally doing the best thing for him now, it's possible he will have to go down the card after that.
Punk, he hasn't even scratched the surface of what he can do and say, I'm also starting to get sick of the lovefest but it has to be intentional at this point.


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

omaroo said:


> People hating on ratings going down and saying AEW growth has stagnated.
> 
> How sad can haters be when they have nothing better to do do with their time.


This is a ratings thread, people are going to discuss them, good and bad. Some of you guys are WAY too damn sensitive about any perceived slight against AEW. Tbh talking about ratings in general can be seen as a sign someone has nothing better to do whether they're a negative hater or not.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

omaroo said:


> People hating on ratings going down and saying AEW growth has stagnated.
> 
> How sad can haters be when they have nothing better to do do with their time.


At this point does saying that actually make you hater? It's pretty much honesty at this point.

September 9th, 2020 AEW runs unopposed and draws a rating of 1,016,000

One year and one month later after spending millions and millions of dollars on new talent the rating is 1,053,000 which is only 37,000 more. Tens of millions spent on some of the biggest stars in wrestling over the past 10 years and your increase over a 12 month period is just 37,000 people.

I don't think it's sad to point that out. It's just honesty at this point.



Don Draper's Ghost said:


> This is a ratings thread, people are going to discuss them, good and bad. Some of you guys are WAY too damn sensitive about any perceived slight against AEW. Tbh talking about ratings in general can be seen as a sign someone has nothing better to do whether they're a negative hater or not.


This is a good point. We're discussing ratings that don't benefit or hurt us in any way in life. If you really want to get into it we're all wasting our time.


----------



## RapShepard

Next week SmackDown is on FS1 with an extra half hour. TK is predicting victory for Rampage.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Erik. said:


> I am sure I saw that hockey is coming to TNT and I believe they wanted Dynamite to have a more consistent schedule instead of having to move days like they have with Friday and Saturday shows.
> 
> I believe TNT will still have some of the special Dynamite shows like Bash at the Beach, Winters Coming etc.
> 
> Theyre also being paid extra for it. Its a win win situation for both AEW and Turner. And whilst its not alot, TBS is in more homes too.


They are still screwed on date shifts until the end of 2021 though. There is a possibility that numbers take a notable hit the next couple weeks and who knows how many more times over the 3 months until the permanent move to TBS. It's not the shift in channel that is the issue it's the date/timeslot shifts that do the most damage.


----------



## Not Lying

RapShepard said:


> Next week SmackDown is on FS1 with an extra half hour. TK is predicting victory for Rampage.


Lol, It's probably going to be Sasha/Becky up against IC vs Sky/Page/JDS. What will you watch?



MonkasaurusRex said:


> They are still screwed on date shifts until the end of 2021 though. There is a possibility that numbers take a notable hit the next couple weeks and who knows how many more times over the 3 months until the permanent move to TBS. It's not the shift in channel that is the issue it's the date/timeslot shifts that do the most damage.


If they can have the same hype for the TBS debut as the TNT debut, they should be able to stabilize and the current shake-ups won't hurt them much.


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> Lol, It's probably going to be Sasha/Becky up against IC vs Sky/Page/JDS. What will you watch?
> 
> 
> 
> If they can have the same hype for the TBS debut as the TNT debut, they should be able to stabilize and the current shake-ups won't hurt them much.


I'll probably switch back and forth between it if they open with Punk. I'm not married to Sasha vs Becky seen it a ton. Jericho 0 interest in.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Next week SmackDown is on FS1 with an extra half hour. TK is predicting victory for Rampage.


lol, this is gonna bite TK in the bum


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol, this is gonna bite TK in the bum


Who knows the world is nuts it seems like a long shot given the last few weeks. But if come Monday Punk raised the ratings it might be a real competition. But the shit talk will be epic when the results from that night come in


----------



## DaSlacker

I'm predicting 800,000 for the last 30 mins of SmackDown and 550,000 average for Rampage.

If I was Khan I'd put something completely left field on there like a legends night + Sting vs Christian Cage for the Impact Title. Just to try to beat them head to head for the media BS.


----------



## thorn123

Great matches, Great booking, Lots of spending and Great big names haven’t done much for the rating … Does AEW keep trying to reach the lapsed fan (and perhaps alienate the current fans who love the current product) or just be happy with their lot in life of 1 million on dynamite and 1/2 million on rampage - and keep producing great pro wrestling.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

edit: delete


----------



## elo

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol, this is gonna bite TK in the bum


It's a work, Khan's going for some "controversy creates cash" shenanigans to see if he can anger (and fool) tribal WWE fans into watching Rampage, it's also a shot at RAW calling Smackdown the main show. Rampage ain't beating Smackdown even on FS1 with the card he's announced period, it's a good card but it's not a must watch card.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Next week SmackDown is on FS1 with an extra half hour. TK is predicting victory for Rampage.


*This clown constantly proves my point every week with these stupid ass claims. You just had your worst rating EVER for Rampage with NO competition, but you think you're beating a Sasha Banks main event, just because it's on the secondary channel? What a delusional jackass.

At least WWE gets it. Bad timeslot or bad channel? Put on a banger show. Don't just roll over, die, and make excuses.*


----------



## RainmakerV2

omaroo said:


> People hating on ratings going down and saying AEW growth has stagnated.
> 
> How sad can haters be when they have nothing better to do do with their time.



Haters? Lmao. Cmon dude. If the superfans can dish it, they have to be able to take it. Truth be told most weeks I enjoy Dynamite. But don't be on here busting a nut to the fact that Dynamite beat RAW by .01 in the demo even though RAW goes against MNF, then when they get destroyed and RAW almost doubles their viewership go "stop being mean and negative don't you know Dynamite had the MLB to go against! Don't hit me!"

If they somehow do fall under 1 mil after signing Punk, Bryan, and Cole, then you can't spin that as anything but a huge negative. That means the casual that tuned in to see said guys didn't like what they saw enough to stick around.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Tony Khan must've forgotten what happened last time he went head to head with Sasha Banks.







*


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

The Definition of Technician said:


> Lol, It's probably going to be Sasha/Becky up against IC vs Sky/Page/JDS. What will you watch?
> 
> 
> 
> If they can have the same hype for the TBS debut as the TNT debut, they should be able to stabilize and the current shake-ups won't hurt them much.


I won't say that you're wrong, but they already suffer from throwing a lot out there to pop a rating and tend to fall backward with regularity when they aren't throwing what is essentially a free PPV. I just don't find it to be a sustainable practice. Hyping up the TBS debut just to see numbers drop noticeably in the aftermath isn't the greatest move IMO. That said it's entirely possible that they are in for a tough few months as this year winds down.


----------



## 3venflow

Another sell out coming in Chi-Town for a show that is one-and-a-half months away with no matches announced.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446884102062460929


----------



## Erik.

3venflow said:


> Another sell out coming in Chi-Town for a show that is one-and-a-half months away with no matches announced.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446884102062460929


On a mother fucking roll.


----------



## Sad Panda

Attending an AEW event is truly a special experience.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *This clown constantly proves my point every week with these stupid ass claims. You just had your worst rating EVER for Rampage with NO competition, but you think you're beating a Sasha Banks main event, just because it's on the secondary channel? What a delusional jackass.
> 
> At least WWE gets it. Bad timeslot or bad channel? Put on a banger show. Don't just roll over, die, and make excuses.*


Yikes at the major tantrum to Tony Khan promoting his show. Maybe you need to take a deep breath because he's a cool dude who actually knows his wrestling.


----------



## DammitChrist

Sad Panda said:


> Attending an AEW event is truly a special experience.


Oh, I'm attending next week's Saturday episode of Dynamite in Miami with my cousin.

I'm stoked that I'll get to see BRYAN DANIELSON (my 1st time seeing him perform/wrestle live) face Bobby Fish, Malakai Black in a match, and the Lucha Bros in a match!

It also helps that my top favorites in Kenny Omega and Britt Baker are still the world champions too


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DammitChrist said:


> Oh, I'm attending next week's Saturday episode of Dynamite in Miami with my cousin.
> 
> I'm stoked that I'll get to see BRYAN DANIELSON (my 1st time seeing him perform/wrestle live) face Bobby Fish, Malakai Black in a match, and the Lucha Bros in a match!
> 
> It also helps that my top favorites in Kenny Omega and Britt Baker are still the world champions too


amazing - enjoy it!

ps> what do you think of Hangman?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol, this is gonna bite TK in the bum


*You know shit is bad when Cattle Class won't cosign it.*


----------



## DammitChrist

LifeInCattleClass said:


> amazing - enjoy it!
> 
> ps> what do you think of Hangman?


I think Adam Page is awesome! He should be the next AEW World Champion


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *You know shit is bad when Cattle Class won't cosign it.*


hey now 

ps> did the bucks tank the ratings this week? I didn’t look


----------



## ProjectGargano

466k for Rampage on the fast nationals? Ooof.

-62% on 18-34, jeeez.

They have to do something with Rampage.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Raj is spotty with his track record so take this with a grain of salt. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446920723440807938


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

So they’ll probably end up in the low 500k range?

If so, that’s pretty bad.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> So they’ll probably end up in the low 500k range?
> 
> If so, that’s pretty bad.


*BUT THEY'RE GONNA CRUSH SASHA BANKS AND BROCK LESNAR NEXT WEEK 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂








*


----------



## Buhalovski

And heres why I dont like the statements TK makes on Twitter. Now he looks like a clown lol


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *BUT THEY'RE GONNA CRUSH SASHA BANKS AND BROCK LESNAR NEXT WEEK 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Man, you really can't resist coming across as bitter and obnoxious 😂


----------



## RainmakerV2

Keep Punk off Rampage. You're just devaluing him and it's obviously not helping


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> hey now
> 
> ps> did the bucks tank the ratings this week? I didn’t look


*Their tag match was advertised and 100,000 people decided it wasn't worth watching, so yeah.*


----------



## Chan Hung

GNKenny said:


> Raj is spotty with his track record so take this with a grain of salt.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446920723440807938


So about 340,000 more than Impact? Damn.


----------



## DaSlacker

Shame. It was an enjoyable hour of pro wrestling. If this keeps up it will be moved to Wednesday whether or not Tony and the fans want it like that.


----------



## Swan-San

In that timeslot it makes no sense to have the top stars, fill dynamite with the top stars. have Rampage as your developmental with top stars now and then.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Swan-San said:


> In that timeslot it makes no sense to have the top stars, fill dynamite with the top stars. have Rampage as your developmental with top stars now and then.


*They have two YouTube shows that no one watches for that. We don't need a third on national television.*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

If numbers continue dwindling like this, I'd like to see some experimentation with Rampage. Things like contract signings for non-main event matches (maybe provide a bit more build for matches that wouldn't normally get it), in-ring talk shows/interviews, more backstage segments... maybe even a show built around one match that has a few segments beforehand to build and lead up to it on the same show. Or even just a few segments for one thing that culminates in a final segment to end the night/leave fans on a cliffhanger for the following week. Things that can build the characters themselves, and maybe build up the following week's Dynamite matches.

You could have on Rampage someone like Malakai Black or Miro building up their own factions through whatever means/rituals they want. Using Miro as an example one week Miro attacks and drags out some random nobody, the next week we get a backstage/some segment that was filmed away from the show during the week showing the "redemption" and then the following week he repeats. Repeat that and make it a consistent thing until it's ready to be paid off on Dynamite (not necessarily suggesting those two need to be used specifically, but just a general idea). 

If Rampage doesn't work as just another "wrestling" show for AEW, try other stuff with it. Worst case numbers continue declining like they are anyway. Best case, you get some fun segments/angle that will help fans get into certain characters.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I've heard Bischoff talk about Thunder enough times to know that he always knew Thunder was a huge mistake and that Thunder was the beginning of the end for WCW.

Not sure that Rampage is the beginning of the end for AEW but there isn't really a reason to tune into Rampage. It's Dynamite without many of the stars which is kind of like what Thunder was for WCW. It's also in the American death slot which doesn't help it.

I'd be hoping that the just under 500k isn't real though. You'd hope that the bottom for Rampage would be around the 500k mark...


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Chip Chipperson said:


> I've heard Bischoff talk about Thunder enough times to know that he always knew Thunder was a huge mistake and that Thunder was the beginning of the end for WCW.
> 
> Not sure that Rampage is the beginning of the end for AEW but there isn't really a reason to tune into Rampage. It's Dynamite without many of the stars which is kind of like what Thunder was for WCW. It's also in the American death slot which doesn't help it.
> 
> I'd be hoping that the just under 500k isn't real though. You'd hope that the bottom for Rampage would be around the 500k mark...


*They're just prelim numbers. Real numbers should at least be in the 500s, which still isn't good.*


----------



## The XL 2

The novelty of AEW will eventually wear out. People are happy with an edgy alternative to WWE and many support it on that basis alone, but their is only so many times you can see the same match. Their needs to be a bigger focus on logic, characters and storytelling. They're also going to burn through everything with the addition of Rampage, they could barely book Dynamite. Eric Bischoff ran into the same problem with Thunder and he had a hell of a more loaded talent roster and much better creative. Hell, even though WWE executed the 2nd show much better than WCW, the addition of Smackdown basically burned through the Attitude Era and made it end early than it likely otherwise would have by overexposing the stars and the product.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The XL 2 said:


> The novelty of AEW will eventually wear out. People are happy with an edgy alternative to WWE and many support it on that basis alone, but their is only so many times you can see the same match. Their needs to be a bigger focus on logic, characters and storytelling. They're also going to burn through everything with the addition of Rampage, they could barely book Dynamite. Eric Bischoff ran into the same problem with Thunder and he had a hell of a more loaded talent roster and much better creative. Hell, even though WWE executed the 2nd show much better than WCW, the addition of Smackdown basically burned through the Attitude Era and made it end early than it likely otherwise would have by overexposing the stars and the product.


*Agreed with everything up until Smackdown causing the Attitude Era to die. That was Austin's heel turn. He takes full responsibility for that.*


----------



## Dr. Middy

Rampage feels like a third hour of Dynamite in a way to me. I thought it was a fine show, I liked the Cage/Starks match and thought it was built up okay, and Punk/Garcia was a fun match too. 

They could maybe put more bigger segments like that Britt/Ruby promo segment on the show and bring in some more people with things like that, but I also don't want to have them throwing all of their top talent on a show that is automatically going to have less viewers. 

It's just unfortunate that the time slot is just bad. 10pm on a Friday night was a bad idea from the start and anybody could have seen difficulties in viewship coming from a mile away. I do wonder what other times were available for the show other than this.


----------



## The XL 2

The Legit DMD said:


> *Agreed with everything up until Smackdown causing the Attitude Era to die. That was Austin's heel turn. He takes full responsibility for that.*


Austins heel turn and Rock leaving for Hollywood killed it, but it even if those things didn't happen, Smackdown was speeding the process up. A legit invasion angle with Goldberg, Hogan, Nash, Flair, etc from the jump could have propelled the business into even greater heights, but since that was never going to happen, the business was destined to taper off with the overexposure of Smackdown. The fact that they held it off as long as they did is testament to the Rocks brilliance and the deep roster behind him.


----------



## DaSlacker

Thunder was good to start with. The reason it was problematic was because Nitro went 3 hours that same week and Saturday Night was also 2 hours. Way too much.

AEW are in a similar situation to classic WWF - one main show and an additional hour later on in the week. But then they have WCW like vibes when you factor in Dark and Dark: Elevation. The problem in this day and age is spoilers. WWE got those huge contracts partly because they are live. 

Tony Khan has also made things more difficult for himself by avoiding DQs and countouts. It's a necessary storytelling device. 

If peak TNA had issues with not enough wrestling and too many screwy finishes
Then AEW is too far the aother way. It's a balancing act.


----------



## PavelGaborik

The XL 2 said:


> The novelty of AEW will eventually wear out. People are happy with an edgy alternative to WWE and many support it on that basis alone, but their is only so many times you can see the same match. Their needs to be a bigger focus on logic, characters and storytelling. They're also going to burn through everything with the addition of Rampage, they could barely book Dynamite. Eric Bischoff ran into the same problem with Thunder and he had a hell of a more loaded talent roster and much better creative. Hell, even though WWE executed the 2nd show much better than WCW, the addition of Smackdown basically burned through the Attitude Era and made it end early than it likely otherwise would have by overexposing the stars and the product.


Lol how long have people been preaching this nonsense? 

The timeslot is fucking garbage and doesn't work for a lot of people, including myself. I watch every Dynamite but haven't caught a single Rampage since the Punk debut.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

I said it before stop putting big matches and using punk on rampage. ...nothing in that slot will move the numbers and it takes away from potential dynamite moments ...no one in their right mind thought they could get high numbers in that slot. ..dynamite itself fell down to 460k in that same slot

And iv been heating about aew's novelty wearing off for over a year ..it's not going anywhere anytime soon ..they have a fanbase that will keep Turner happy and their ticket and merch sales are insane so give up on that


----------



## TheGunnShow

DammitChrist said:


> Man, you really can't resist coming across as bitter and obnoxious 😂


You're the bitter and obnoxious one because you keep replying to DMD even though he never replies to you.


----------



## PavelGaborik

The Legit DMD said:


> *Tony Khan must've forgotten what happened last time he went head to head with Sasha Banks.
> View attachment 109989
> *


You're looking at numbers without context. If Dynamite did sink to below 1 million while going head to head against an MLB Wild Card game that drew over 7 million viewers with a 1.73 in the key demo.

Nobody who follows sports would've been surprised to see a dip under a million. 

Also lol @ posting the Sasha #, one of the handful of times NXT actually won something against AEW. They had bigger stars than Sasha show up on NXT afterwards, it didn't matter.


----------



## DammitChrist

TheGunnShow said:


> You're the bitter and obnoxious one because you keep replying to DMD even though he never replies to you.


Don’t lie to me. This is like your 100th account since July 2018. You’re not even supposed to be on here. Nobody asked for your irrelevant opinion.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Wow, thought Rampage was a great hour show but that preliminary rating looks dire. If this is the way it is going forward then they either need to change time slot or not bother to put good matches on at that time.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

PavelGaborik said:


> You're looking at numbers without context. If Dynamite did sink to below 1 million while going head to head against an MLB Wild Card game that drew over 7 million viewers with a 1.73 in the key demo.
> 
> Nobody who follows sports would've been surprised to see a dip under a million.
> 
> Also lol @ posting the Sasha #, one of the handful of times NXT actually won something against AEW. They had bigger stars than Sasha show up on NXT afterwards, it didn't matter.


*Because they aren't bigger stars than Sasha. It's not hard to comprehend. The biggest stars in AEW at the time got destroyed by her. It wasn't close. Save your excuses for when she does it again next week.*


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *Because they aren't bigger stars than Sasha. It's not hard to comprehend. The biggest stars in AEW at the time got destroyed by her. It wasn't close. Save your excuses for when she does it again next week.*


“Excuses” has to be the most overused/meaningless word in the vocabulary.


----------



## Jay Trotter

If Bryan vs Jackson can barely get over 600k as apart of your number one angle on AEW TV (BD vs Elite) there's little to no hope of Rampage picking up any traction. No MLB playoffs that night to compete with unlike last night so it should've been higher. But the real question is: Why does Tony keep sticking Punk on Friday's at 10? It's beyond me. It's truly odd. He just devalues him. He feeds his haters. Punk never does anything high profile on Dynamite. He doesn't wrestle a match even on their biggest show of year. He cuts the same repetitive promo after the opening quarter, with no interruptions from anyone to setup a fued. He will take a seat at the commentary table here and there. Never anything big. Let's talk about his opponents on Rampage. Hobbs, Garcia, and Sydal? Oh yeah. That will draw eyeballs on Friday at 10. It's like LeBron playing one on one vs the 12th men on a NBA roster. Punk should've went directly into a program with MJF after All Out in a two month build into Full Gear. You can still have him working with the same guys in ring, but at least there would be an angle to work with. Move this show to Saturday at 6pm in early 2022 after college football season. It's obvious by the lack of activity online that few are watching live. DVR numbers are probably really good, but live numbers will remain sinking to bottom.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

They're in a terrible timeslot but come on, 466k??? With a show that has CM Punk wrestling? That's inexcusable.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Jay Trotter said:


> If Bryan vs Jackson can barely get over 600k as apart of your number one angle on AEW TV (BD vs Elite) there's little to no hope of Rampage picking up any traction. No MLB playoffs that night to compete with unlike last night so it should've been higher. But the real question is: Why does Tony keep sticking Punk on Friday's at 10? It's beyond me. It's truly odd. He just devalues him. He feeds his haters. Punk never does anything high profile on Dynamite. He doesn't wrestle a match even on their biggest show of year. He cuts the same repetitive promo after the opening quarter, with no interruptions from anyone to setup a fued. He will take a seat at the commentary table here and there. Never anything big. Let's talk about his opponents on Rampage. Hobbs, Garcia, and Sydal? Oh yeah. That will draw eyeballs on Friday at 10. It's like LeBron playing one on one vs the 12th men on a NBA roster. Punk should've went directly into a program with MJF after All Out in a two month build into Full Gear. You can still have him working with the same guys in ring, but at least there would be an angle to work with. Move this show to Saturday at 6pm in early 2022 after college football season. It's obvious by the lack of activity online that few are watching live. DVR numbers are probably really good, but live numbers will remain sinking to bottom.


Tony isn't a booker, he is a fan who thinks he knows what he is doing. He is learning on the job at this point.

He has signed Punk just because he wants Punk. He hasn't developed an idea or a reason for Punk to be in AEW, he doesn't have any deeply thought out stories or feuds for him which has lead to Punk becoming just another guy.

I predicted this would happen and it has. Bryan will quickly become just another guy once Tony puts the belt on Hangman and Bryan takes the backseat to Kenny/Hangman feud.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> They're in a terrible timeslot but come on, 466k??? With a show that has CM Punk wrestling? That's inexcusable.


*The needle was moved...downward.*


----------



## Lady Eastwood

Jay Trotter said:


> If Bryan vs Jackson can barely get over 600k as apart of your number one angle on AEW TV (BD vs Elite) there's little to no hope of Rampage picking up any traction. No MLB playoffs that night to compete with unlike last night so it should've been higher. But the real question is: Why does Tony keep sticking Punk on Friday's at 10? It's beyond me. It's truly odd. He just devalues him. He feeds his haters. Punk never does anything high profile on Dynamite. He doesn't wrestle a match even on their biggest show of year. He cuts the same repetitive promo after the opening quarter, with no interruptions from anyone to setup a fued. He will take a seat at the commentary table here and there. Never anything big. Let's talk about his opponents on Rampage. Hobbs, Garcia, and Sydal? Oh yeah. That will draw eyeballs on Friday at 10. It's like LeBron playing one on one vs the 12th men on a NBA roster. Punk should've went directly into a program with MJF after All Out in a two month build into Full Gear. You can still have him working with the same guys in ring, but at least there would be an angle to work with. Move this show to Saturday at 6pm in early 2022 after college football season. It's obvious by the lack of activity online that few are watching live. DVR numbers are probably really good, but live numbers will remain sinking to bottom.



Besides his first show back in wrestling and his match with Darby, I have been left most disappointed in what they have been doing with Punk. 

I don't know what kind of plans they have for him in the future, maybe things will get better, but, right now, I just feel like they are so lost with him. Big name with hardly anything big going for him.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

The Legit DMD said:


> *The needle was moved...downward.*


It's sad that just 7 weeks ago they had 1.1 million viewers for Rampage and they're getting less than half of that now. They're wasting guys like Punk and Danielson on this show that's now barely getting 500k.


----------



## PavelGaborik

The Legit DMD said:


> *Because they aren't bigger stars than Sasha. It's not hard to comprehend. The biggest stars in AEW at the time got destroyed by her. It wasn't close. Save your excuses for when she does it again next week.*


Save my excuses for what? The WWE could roll out literally anybody on their roster and they would still easily outdraw Rampage, It's not a contest. Pretending Sasha is a bigger star than Edge is simply delusional, the WWE clearly doesn't view her as as big a star as Charlotte either, who spent some time in NXT as well. 

Taking a few big names from the main roster and temporarily throwing them on NXT gave them an initial bump, but there is literally zero indication that there would be any long term sustainability with that. 

The show that routinely draws nearly 2 million viewers inevitably having more viewers than the show that averages under 700k is not going to add merit to your argument, and you acting as if it will is nothing short of cringe worthy.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

PavelGaborik said:


> Save my excuses for what? The WWE could roll out literally anybody on their roster and they would still easily outdraw Rampage, It's not a contest. Pretending Sasha is a bigger star than Edge is simply delusional, the WWE clearly doesn't view her as as big a star as Charlotte either, who spent some time in NXT as well.
> 
> Taking a few big names from the main roster and temporarily throwing them on NXT gave them an initial bump, but there is literally zero indication that there would be any long term sustainability with that.
> 
> The show that routinely draws nearly 2 million viewers inevitably having more viewers than the show that averages under 700k is not going to add merit to your argument, and you acting as if it will is nothing short of cringe worthy.


*Sasha has done better ratings than Edge in 2020 and 2021. This has been proven a dozen times. Argue with the wall. I immediately stopped taking you seriously when you said she's not viewed as a bigger star than Charlotte.*


----------



## kuja killer

I personally love punk, and i want this to turn out so well for him but... i hate these decisions of putting him only on rampage every time when it SHOULD be on dynamite.

The promo this week was pretty silly only talking about "cheese cake...philly cheese steak" or whatever. But when he said what about a match ?? So im happy thinking is it going to be tonight on dynamite ? yes please!! ....but when he said rampage i was like god damnit not on that show again...
Then when they announced last night his next match is on rampage AGAIN next week...that pissed me off more. 

He needs to wrestle on dynamite where it will mean much more in general...not dumb rampage.  and the fact that its always the "1st" match ...and not the main event or at least 2nd-to-last just makes me more upset that he's not being treated better...


----------



## PavelGaborik

The Legit DMD said:


> *Sasha has done better ratings than Edge in 2020 and 2021. This has been proven a dozen times. Argue with the wall. I immediately stopped taking you seriously when you said she's not viewed as a bigger star than Charlotte.*


Then I'm sure you would have no issues digging it up. 

World Title reigns, the length of their reigns speak volumes as to who they view as the bigger star :

Sasha has had six reigns on the main roster, five of which combined eclipsed just 105 days. 

Charlotte has more double the reigns, and while she has had multiple short reigns as well, she's had several that eclipsed Sasha's first five reigns combined in time. 

Whether you like it or not, Charlotte is undeniably the woman that the WWE has pushed further. 

As long as Becky and Charlotte are around, Sasha will be the WWE's third stringer, whether you like it or not is irrelevant.


----------



## thorn123

kuja killer said:


> I personally love punk, and i want this to turn out so well for him but... i hate these decisions of putting him only on rampage every time when it SHOULD be on dynamite.
> 
> The promo this week was pretty silly only talking about "cheese cake...philly cheese steak" or whatever. But when he said what about a match ?? So im happy thinking is it going to be tonight on dynamite ? yes please!! ....but when he said rampage i was like god damnit not on that show again...
> Then when they announced last night his next match is on rampage AGAIN next week...that pissed me off more.
> 
> He needs to wrestle on dynamite where it will mean much more in general...not dumb rampage.  and the fact that its always the "1st" match ...and not the main event or at least 2nd-to-last just makes me more upset that he's not being treated better...


I tend to agree, but I think punk and khan are in this together developing a long term angle. Hope so anyway.



Catalanotto said:


> Besides his first show back in wrestling and his match with Darby, I have been left most disappointed in what they have been doing with Punk.
> 
> I don't know what kind of plans they have for him in the future, maybe things will get better, but, right now, I just feel like they are so lost with him. Big name with hardly anything big going for him.


Same as I said in the post above … I am sure punk and khan are in cahoots and have something big planned long term. Unfortunately viewers are not hanging around to see it.

I have been pretty harsh rating rampage since it’s inception, but this weeks show was excellent. There are just not many pro wrestling fans anymore.


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> *Sasha has done better ratings than Edge in 2020 and 2021. This has been proven a dozen times. Argue with the wall. I immediately stopped taking you seriously when you said she's not viewed as a bigger star than Charlotte.*





PavelGaborik said:


> Then I'm sure you would have no issues digging it up.
> 
> World Title reigns, the length of their reigns speak volumes as to who they view as the bigger star :
> 
> Sasha has had six reigns on the main roster, five of which combined eclipsed just 105 days.
> 
> Charlotte has more double the reigns, and while she has had multiple short reigns as well, she's had several that eclipsed Sasha's first five reigns combined in time.
> 
> Whether you like it or not, Charlotte is undeniably the woman that the WWE has pushed further.
> 
> As long as Becky and Charlotte are around, Sasha will be the WWE's third stringer, whether you like it or not is irrelevant.


You're talking about the suits, @The Legit DMD is obviously talking about who's viewed as a bigger star amongst fans. The suits can't control who gets better ratings, fans do. Sasha went to NXT and beat AEW, Charlotte was NXT champion and didn't help NXT beat AEW.


----------



## PavelGaborik

RapShepard said:


> You're talking about the suits, @The Legit DMD is obviously talking about who's viewed as a bigger star amongst fans. The suits can't control who gets better ratings, fans do. Sasha went to NXT and beat AEW, Charlotte was NXT champion and didn't help NXT beat AEW.


But again, the point is there's zero evidence to suggest having Banks show up on a weekly basis would make a significant difference in the long run for NXT. 

We've seen bumps in ratings when new faces show up countless times and the vast majority of the time those bumps level off and things adjust back to normal relatively quickly, I see no reason to believe this wouldn't have been the case for Sasha in NXT again as well. 

But yes, I was quite clear that I was talking about how the suits view Charlotte compared to Sasha from the start.


----------



## RapShepard

PavelGaborik said:


> But again, the point is there's zero evidence to suggest having Banks show up on a weekly basis would make a significant difference in the long run for NXT.
> 
> We've seen bumps in ratings when new faces show up countless times and the vast majority of the time those bumps level off and things adjust back to normal relatively quickly, I see no reason to believe this wouldn't have been the case for Sasha in NXT again as well.
> 
> But yes, I was quite clear that I was talking about how the suits view Charlotte compared to Sasha from the start.


You got a point on long term what Sasha would've done for NXT. But Sasha has had multiple highest drawing moments and been the star to the fans for a while. Back to when fans were chanting "we want Sasha" back when Team Bad wasn't getting TV time and Team PCB was the center of the women's division. 

But you're right it's inarguable she isn't seen as THE top women, but a top woman.


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

DammitChrist said:


> Yikes at the major tantrum to Tony Khan promoting his show. Maybe you need to take a deep breath because he's a cool dude who actually knows his wrestling.


You say certain things like they're fact and not opinion, most people do not consider Tony Khan cool whatsoever. Not saying he's a bad guy and he seems nice enough but come on, you can't act like it's an undisputed fact Rick Moranis' long lost son is somehow cool.

Sometimes I legit think you're Tony's secret account with the way you defend him.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> You say certain things like they're fact and not opinion, most people do not consider Tony Khan cool whatsoever. Not saying he's a bad guy and he seems nice enough but come on, you can't act like it's an undisputed fact Rick Moranis' long lost son is somehow cool.
> 
> Sometimes I legit think you're Tony's secret account with the way you defend him.


Yeah he doesn't like it when people disagree with him. He reckons his opinions are fact and if you don't agree with him your tastes in wrestling are lesser. It's quite funny watching him jump through hoops sometimes to justify himself. Dude thinks Meltzer is a respectable journalist so that says everything you need to know about him really.


----------



## Geeee

I really enjoyed the Punk/Garcia match. I think people are just happy having Dynamite as an alternative and weren't really clamoring for a 3rd hour of AEW in a stupid timeslot


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Geeee said:


> I really enjoyed the Punk/Garcia match. I think people are just happy having Dynamite as an alternative and weren't really clamoring for a 3rd hour of AEW in a stupid timeslot


*People were clamoring for a third hour for sure. My issue with the timeslot argument is that it wasn't complained about nearly as much for those 700k-1.1 million shows. It only became the deathslot after ratings started tanking again.*


----------



## La Parka

Pretty soon Rampage will be getting the same amount of viewers as that wwe backstage show CM Punk was on.

Why waste CM Punk on shitty rampage while you put the young bucks botching 45 time on your Wednesday night prime time program?


----------



## kazarn

La Parka said:


> Pretty soon Rampage will be getting the same amount of viewers as that wwe backstage show CM Punk was on.
> 
> Why waste CM Punk on shitty rampage while you put the young bucks botching 45 time on your Wednesday night prime time program?


Honestly no clue why Punk only wrestles on Rampage and not Dynamite.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446893466781376529


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Yeah he doesn't like it when people disagree with him. He reckons his opinions are fact and if you don't agree with him your tastes in wrestling are lesser. It's quite funny watching him jump through hoops sometimes to justify himself. Dude thinks Meltzer is a respectable journalist so that says everything you need to know about him really.


Dude, you're being extremely hypocritical with this bad take. You're the same guy who acts like Triple H "killing" NXT by pushing the workrate guys, that Brock Lesnar squashing Kofi Kingston in October 2019 was a "beautiful" moment, and that Xavier Woods is "undeserving" to win the King of the Ring tournament as if those are facts (even though that are just poor opinions).

Why should I let up when you're guilty of doing the same, especially when you actually make opinionated threads as if they're "facts?"



Don Draper's Ghost said:


> You say certain things like they're fact and not opinion, most people do not consider Tony Khan cool whatsoever. Not saying he's a bad guy and he seems nice enough but come on, you can't act like it's an undisputed fact Rick Moranis' long lost son is somehow cool.
> 
> Sometimes I legit think you're Tony's secret account with the way you defend him.


The person calling me out here is defending someone who just implied that Edge (one of the biggest stars from the Ruthless Aggression Era back when more fans watched) somehow has 'less' star power than Sasha Banks (who became a top star since 2016 at least) as if that's an undisputed fact.

Dude, if you look around, others do the exact same to a greater degree.


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> Dude, you're being extremely hypocritical with this bad take. You're the same guy who acts like Triple H "killing" NXT by pushing the workrate guys, that Brock Lesnar squashing Kofi Kingston in October 2019 was a "beautiful" moment, and that Xavier Woods is "undeserving" to win the King of the Ring tournament as if those are facts (even though that are just poor opinions).
> 
> Why should I let up when you're guilty of doing the same, especially when you actually make opinionated threads as if they're "facts?"
> 
> 
> 
> The person calling me out here is defending someone who just implied that Edge (one of the biggest stars from the Ruthless Aggression Era back when more fans watched) somehow has 'less' star power than Sasha Banks (who became a top star since 2016 at least) as if that's an undisputed fact.
> 
> Dude, if you look around, others do the exact same to a greater degree.


Just be honest you're salty @The Legit DMD has some material to mock what you love this week. If next week AEW Rampage out does SmackDown you know damn well you'll be cracking jokes on Reigns and DMD as a Sasha fan


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Just be honest you're salty @The Legit DMD has some material to mock what you love this week. If next week AEW Rampage out does SmackDown you know damn well you'll be cracking jokes on Reigns and DMD as a Sasha fan


*I'm just gonna leave this here:*


----------



## DammitChrist

RapShepard said:


> Just be honest you're salty @The Legit DMD has some material to mock what you love this week. If next week AEW Rampage out does SmackDown you know damn well you'll be cracking jokes on Reigns and DMD as a Sasha fan


Hey, it’s all good. I always have the hilariously mediocre ratings for NXT 2.0 as receipts 

Anyway, I don’t really expect Rampage to beat Smackdown’s extra half-hour next week (even though I’d like to see it happen, which it won’t). 

For the record, I do enjoy Sasha Banks. I’m actually hoping that she wins back the Smackdown Women’s title at Crown Jewel in a couple of weeks since Becky Lynch is moving to Raw.


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> Hey, it’s all good. I always have the hilariously mediocre ratings for NXT 2.0 as receipts [emoji14]
> 
> Anyway, I don’t really expect Rampage to beat Smackdown’s extra half-hour next week (even though I’d like to see it happen, which it won’t).
> 
> For the record, I do enjoy Sasha Banks. I’m actually hoping that she wins back the Smackdown Women’s title at Crown Jewel in a couple of weeks since Becky Lynch is moving to Raw.


See Sasha winning since she's staying on SmackDown would make sense. So what likely happens is some Bianca or Becky wins and they title switch with Charlotte so Charlotte can get another reign and not have to put somebody over lol


----------



## CovidFan

DammitChrist said:


> Why should I let up when you're guilty of doing the same, especially when you actually make opinionated threads as if they're "facts?"


DC, when someone makes a thread, they're sharing their opinion and stating it like a fact because it's their opinion. And the difference is and why you're so obnoxious is that when you REPLY to people, you're not simply arguing with them by giving your opinion, you're telling them their opinion's wrong. Honestly shocked you've never been warned for it because it goes against the entire spirit of a forum such as this.


----------



## DammitChrist

CovidFan said:


> DC, when someone makes a thread, they're sharing their opinion and stating it like a fact because it's their opinion. And the difference is and why you're so obnoxious is that when you REPLY to people, you're not simply arguing with them by giving your opinion, you're telling them their opinion's wrong. Honestly shocked you've never been warned for it because it goes against the entire spirit of a forum such as this.


You should be telling this to someone else because I see that happen WAY more often on here. Anyway, quit making this about me when I was just responding to quotes regarding the ratings for AEW and Smackdown.

Edit:



CovidFan said:


> You should stop telling people what to do or how to think.


That was more of a recommendation than an order, dude. I’m sorry if my post seemed misleading.


----------



## CovidFan

DammitChrist said:


> You should be telling this to someone else because I see that happen WAY more often on here.


You should stop telling people what to do or how to think. You're the only person (and I only use that to not get banished) on here that invalidates peoples opinions and says (for example) "well actually Omega's awesome" as if it's some sort of fact. Some people don't like him or others. Get the fuck over it.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Vince is about to get Rampage canceled.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1447259875726266370*


----------



## Stylebender

The Legit DMD said:


> *I'm just gonna leave this here:*
> View attachment 110031


Yeah that has so much to do with Sasha.


----------



## ProjectGargano

The Legit DMD said:


> *Vince is about to get Rampage canceled.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1447259875726266370*


I mean TK will get NXT cancelled too, pretty soon.


----------



## Erik.

ProjectGargano said:


> I mean TK will get NXT cancelled too, pretty soon.


Just put Rhodes to the Top at the same timeslot on the same day and it'd be done pretty quickly.


----------



## TheGunnShow

I don't understand why they don't put Rampage on Saturday seeing as TNT doesn't air anything else that day.


----------



## omaroo

TheGunnShow said:


> I don't understand why they don't put Rampage on Saturday seeing as TNT doesn't air anything else that day.


That really is the question.

Seems TNT is happy with the show be on the Friday night death slot unfortunately. 

With that said Rampage wont grow and will remain a B show.


----------



## Erik.

TheGunnShow said:


> I don't understand why they don't put Rampage on Saturday seeing as TNT doesn't air anything else that day.


Because TNT are probably happy with it where it is?

It's regularly #1 in it's slot isn't it?

And the fact they KEPT it on TNT when Dynamite moves to TBS says a lot. Not to mention they extended it and gave it 2 hours just last week for a special.

AEW fans will watch it or DVR it for later consumption. It’s not the show that picks up different viewers unless it’s ones coming from Smackdown.

The moment it stops regularly being #1 on Fridays is when a change will look to be made. I can't really think of any other days it would be on. Saturday would be even worse, I feel. Especially from an advertising standpoint.

Maybe Thursday at 7 with a replay at 10.


----------



## TheGunnShow

Erik. said:


> Because TNT are probably happy with it where it is?
> 
> It's regularly #1 in it's slot isn't it?
> 
> And the fact they KEPT it on TNT when Dynamite moves to TBS says a lot. Not to mention they extended it and gave it 2 hours just last week for a special.
> 
> AEW fans will watch it or DVR it for later consumption. It’s not the show that picks up different viewers unless it’s ones coming from Smackdown.
> 
> The moment it stops regularly being #1 on Fridays is when a change will look to be made. I can't really think of any other days it would be on. Saturday would be even worse, I feel. Especially from an advertising standpoint.
> 
> Maybe Thursday at 7 with a replay at 10.


DVR numbers don't matter because advertisers don't want people fast forwarding through commercials. Also, Dynamite did better on Saturday than it did on Friday during the NBA playoffs.


----------



## DaSlacker

If the ratings are going to bottom out at 400,000 and TNT won't move it, then Tony should keep the mid card and headliners away from it... Apart from recorded promos. Just move across the Elevation content to Rampage.


----------



## Erik.

TheGunnShow said:


> DVR numbers don't matter because advertisers don't want people fast forwarding through commercials. Also, Dynamite did better on Saturday than it did on Friday during the NBA playoffs.


I didn't say DVR numbers mattered.

I said AEW fans will watch Rampage on Friday or they will DVR it (Because people tend to be busy Friday nights) and watch it at a different time.

As long as it's #1 in it's time slot, TNT and Tony Khan aren't going to give a shit.


----------



## Mister Sinister

About Dynamite's continuing decline:
-Still no story and little continuity.
-Still no title change.
-Reliance on spectacle matches over story and drama to draw ratings (and the rating drops).
-They need to cut out the garbage and the cursing. I've said this over and over, and like clockwork, they do it again and the ratings slip.
-Not one damn ppv angle still, weeks after the last ppv.
-Another random title shot gimmick match.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage rating*

Viewership: 502,000
18-49: 0.17

#15 on cable

Again, the lowest yet which is disappointing as it was a good card. There was a lot of baseball and American football on, dominating the top 10 which Rampage usually finishes high in.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1428622979903070208

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dark Emperor

Terrible numbers.


----------



## A PG Attitude

I thought Rampage was great this week. But it's in the worst possible timeslot. Put it on before Smackdown and it would do much bigger numbers.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*This thread in a nutshell:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1447675216688254988*


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Historically WWE shows are never affected in the ratings when they're taped. Wonder if that's not the case with AEW due to their more hardcore audience? Just a guess.

Still... bad number.


----------



## omaroo

Shame how worse ratings are getting for rampage.

Apart from moving an hour before smackdown and even trying Saturday nights ratings might do down even more.

It doesnt seem to be good signs for Rampage.


----------



## rich110991

1mil + tune in on a Wednesday weekly

Half on a Friday at a later time

I wonder what the problem is?


----------



## yeahright2

Ratings for Rampage are in.
AEW Ratings prediction game

Congratulations @cai1981, you took it this week 

502K is not a good number, and steady decline.. Nobody expected them to get Punk debut numbers every week, but they can´t afford to go much lower than this.


----------



## the_hound

yeahright2 said:


> 502K is not a good number, and steady decline..* Nobody expected them to get Punk debut numbers every wee*k, but they can´t afford to go much lower than this.


oh but the marks did but then when the numbers went down pretty much every week the goal posts got shifted and then the excuses started to fly.


----------



## CovidFan

the_hound said:


> oh but the marks did


Did we ever see people claim that AEW would consistently get 1m+ viewers? Because I don't think a single person ever said that. Everyone knew that the first Rampage along with Punk's debut and that rating was a one time thing. Obviously AEW's not getting great numbers on Friday. It's a shame they see it as a second tier show and that's probably because of the shit timeslot.


----------



## RapShepard

* Tracking Ratings With Rap Shepard*

Let's see the Rampage numbers without Punk

Rampage #1- 740k .31 demo

Dynamite 8/18- 975k .35 demo

Rampage #2 with Punk- 1.129 million .53 demo

Dynamite 8/25 with Punk- 1.172 million .48 demo

Rampage #3 no Punk- 722k .34 demo

Dynamite 9/1 - 1.047 .37 demo

Rampage #4 with Punk- 696k .30 demo

Dynamite 9/8 with Punk, Bryan, and Cole- 1.31 million .53 demo

Rampage #5 No Punk, Bryan, or Cole- 670k .27 demo

Dynamite 9/15 with Punk, Cole, and Bryan- 1.175 million .44 demo

Rampage #6 no Punk, Cole, or Bryan - 642k .28 demo

Dynamite 9/22 Bryan vs Omega- 1.273 million .48 demo

Rampage #7 Punk vs Hobbs- 640k .28 demo

Dynamite 9/30 with Punk, Bryan, and Cole- 1.152 million .45 demo

Rampage #8 Bryan vs Nick Jackson- 622k .25 demo 

Dynamite 10/6 The Super Elite vs Bryan's ragtag group of merry men- 1.05 million .37 demo 

Rampage 9- 502k .17 demo


----------



## RapShepard

Well this thread is uncharacteristically quiet today


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Well this thread is uncharacteristically quiet today


*They finally ran out of excuses 😂*


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> *They finally ran out of excuses *


You know me imma just point to it's still top 15 lol. But holy shit lol, maybe everybody just caught up watching baseball lol


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> You know me imma just point to it's still top 15 lol. But holy shit lol, maybe everybody just caught up watching baseball lol


*I've got one: Jon Gruden's decade old racist remarks distracted everyone from watching Rampage.*


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> *I've got one: Jon Gruden's decade old racist remarks distracted everyone from watching Rampage.*


Jon Gruden a wild boy . Like dawg those are in person remarks, not email remarks lol


----------



## AuthorOfPosts

AEW should try making CM Punk interesting... just wheeling him out for a random match and expecting big numbers isn't gonna work. AEW's attitude of "remember him from WWE?" and CM Punk's attitude of "I'm just happy to be here" is not interesting. At all.


----------



## Hitman1987

Punk needs to turn heel. Him and Bryan, who are the biggest stars they have, both being faces doesn’t work as they can’t square off in the biggest match AEW can do.

I’d have Hangman beat Kenny for title as that will keep the AEW fans happy and round off the “long-term storytelling”

Then Bryan can feud with Omega (without title) and Hangman can feud with a heel punk for the title.

Heel Punk can then beat hangman for the title and go on to feud with a face Daniel Bryan.

Face Bryan vs Heel Punk is where the money is.


----------



## Gn1212

AuthorOfPosts said:


> AEW should try making CM Punk interesting... just wheeling him out for a random match and expecting big numbers isn't gonna work. AEW's attitude of "remember him from WWE?" and CM Punk's attitude of "I'm just happy to be here" is not interesting. At all.


Punk isn't the problem. Nor was Bryan when he faced Nick.
More often than not Rampage is good for the first 10-20 minutes where they feature but it's all going downhill afterwards. The main events especially aren't particularly noteworthy.
Rampage reminds me a lot of Main Event when it first rolled out. WWE tried treating like a big deal until it wasn't.
It's a dead slot and ultimately it'll be another filler show for the guys who didn't make it to Dynamite.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

CovidFan said:


> Did we ever see people claim that AEW would consistently get 1m+ viewers? Because I don't think a single person ever said that. Everyone knew that the first Rampage along with Punk's debut and that rating was a one time thing. Obviously AEW's not getting great numbers on Friday. It's a shame they see it as a second tier show and that's probably because of the shit timeslot.


I don't think anyone was expecting Rampage to get 1 million plus a week but even myself as a bit of a pessimist when it comes to AEW was expecting it bottom out at around the 600-650k range on a weekly basis and higher for TV specials or big moments (Such as Punk's first TV match in 7 years).

502k is just shockingly bad. I think that's less than what TNA was doing when they were punted off of Spike and were tossed onto some random cable channel (America One?)



AuthorOfPosts said:


> AEW should try making CM Punk interesting... just wheeling him out for a random match and expecting big numbers isn't gonna work. AEW's attitude of "remember him from WWE?" and CM Punk's attitude of "I'm just happy to be here" is not interesting. At all.


Yeah, AEW have all it backwards.

Punk is better as a heel, he should've come out for that mad reaction and eventually started teasing a heel turn. We should be at the point now where Punk is edging closer and closer to a huge heel turn.

Instead he is just another guy...which is a shame because I love Punk, he's one of my favourites.


----------



## TheGreatBanana

502k!! Shambolic. You can’t blame the time slot for this. Punk’s debut got them 1 million veiwerships. AEW is all hype, no substance. Reigns was correct, Punk doesn’t move the needle.


----------



## Hitman1987

Chip Chipperson said:


> I don't think anyone was expecting Rampage to get 1 million plus a week but even myself as a bit of a pessimist when it comes to AEW was expecting it bottom out at around the 600-650k range on a weekly basis and higher for TV specials or big moments (Such as Punk's first TV match in 7 years).
> 
> 502k is just shockingly bad. I think that's less than what TNA was doing when they were punted off of Spike and were tossed onto some random cable channel (America One?)
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, AEW have all it backwards.
> 
> Punk is better as a heel, he should've come out for that mad reaction and eventually started teasing a heel turn. We should be at the point now where Punk is edging closer and closer to a huge heel turn.
> 
> Instead he is just another guy...which is a shame because I love Punk, he's one of my favourites.


I‘m hopeful that Punk pandering to the crowd so much is him laying they foundations for an epic heel turn.

If not then this ‘make-a-wish’ version of Punk who tries to get young talent over isn’t going to work. Punk only has so many matches left in him so those matches should be used for top quality talent only.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Chip Chipperson said:


> I don't think anyone was expecting Rampage to get 1 million plus a week but even myself as a bit of a pessimist when it comes to AEW was expecting it bottom out at around the 600-650k range on a weekly basis and higher for TV specials or big moments (Such as Punk's first TV match in 7 years).
> 
> 502k is just shockingly bad. I think that's less than what TNA was doing when they were punted off of Spike and were tossed onto some random cable channel (America One?)
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, AEW have all it backwards.
> 
> Punk is better as a heel, he should've come out for that mad reaction and eventually started teasing a heel turn. We should be at the point now where Punk is edging closer and closer to a huge heel turn.
> 
> Instead he is just another guy...which is a shame because I love Punk, he's one of my favourites.


Obviously nobody expected Rampage to get consistently 1.1 million, but the fact that over 2 months they've lost over half of that viewership is pathetic. 600k fans decided it wasn't worth tuning in for live.


----------



## Aedubya

Smackdown got a hammering too 

NEXT!!


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Aedubya said:


> Smackdown got a hammering too
> 
> NEXT!!


A quick Google search indicates they did over 2 million viewers. Is this incorrect?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> *AEW Rampage rating*
> 
> Viewership: 502,000
> 18-49: 0.17
> 
> #15 on cable
> 
> Again, the lowest yet which is disappointing as it was a good card. There was a lot of baseball and American football on, dominating the top 10 which Rampage usually finishes high in.
> 
> View attachment 110072


oof, that is no bueno


----------



## SeiyaKanie

Chip Chipperson said:


> A quick Google search indicates they did over 2 million viewers. Is this incorrect?


2.147.000
it has been consistent above 2 millions since fans return. the highest are 2.383.000


----------



## cai1981

yeahright2 said:


> Ratings for Rampage are in.
> AEW Ratings prediction game
> 
> Congratulations @cai1981, you took it this week
> 
> 502K is not a good number, and steady decline.. Nobody expected them to get Punk debut numbers every week, but they can´t afford to go much lower than this.





yeahright2 said:


> Ratings for Rampage are in.
> AEW Ratings prediction game
> 
> Congratulations @cai1981, you took it this week
> 
> 502K is not a good number, and steady decline.. Nobody expected them to get Punk debut numbers every week, but they can´t afford to go much lower than this.


Decline was sharper than expected. This weekend:

Rampage: 490k

Dynamite (Saturday): 700k

*MLB playoffs and half the show going head to head with Smackdown will deliver another blow.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Rampage should be a live Saturday night show. A taped late Friday night show just isn’t going to do good numbers.


----------



## cai1981

Randy Lahey said:


> Rampage should be a live Saturday night show. A taped late Friday night show just isn’t going to do good numbers.


They should ask Turner Sports for the old NWA/WCW 6:05 PM Saturday and/or Sunday slots. Rampage would do much better in that slot on Saturdays.

They can then do a revamped Dark/Elevation on Sundays at 6:05 like NWA/WCW did Main Event. They have all this talent now and can use these times to build them up.


----------



## reamstyles

rich110991 said:


> 1mil + tune in on a Wednesday weekly
> 
> Half on a Friday at a later time
> 
> I wonder what the problem is?


Smarks will always go spoilers...


----------



## reamstyles

Wwe will never let smackdown go back in tapings anymore..


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

I think moving Dynamite from it's Wednesday slot is such a stupid, degrading move.


----------



## Erik.

Nice to see Punk vs. Garcia do 1,300,000 views on YouTube in 3 days.

Actually one of the highest viewed wrestling clips added within the same time frame from both companies.

Almost as if there are different ways of watching.


----------



## 3venflow

MLB and NFL is hurting all pro wrestling right now:

Dynamite total viewership was its lowest since early September and key demo dropped to 0.37.

Rampage was down in total viewership and key demo to its lowest yet.

Smackdown total viewership was its lowest since September and it did it's lowest key demo since July.

RAW did 1.58m (6th lowest in history) and 0.42 in the key demo.

NXT viewership dropped and its key demo was just 0.14.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *They finally ran out of excuses 😂*


What part of awful time slot do you keep failing to comprehend? Must you continue to be spoon-fed this valid reasoning every week?

We've been telling you this since Day 1 for the show and you still keep finding lame *excuses *to ignore that fact 😂

We shouldn't have to remind you this each week.


----------



## ThirdMan

Put DC vs Legit DMD on Rampage this Friday. I mean, it's in Miami, after all. That'll surely win the demo.


----------



## DammitChrist

ThirdMan said:


> Put DC vs Legit DMD on the show this Friday. I mean, it's in Miami, after all. That'll surely win the demo.


Dude, I'm actually attending there this Saturday 😂

I almost went to the Rampage episode where Bryan Danielson vs Minoru Suzuki is happening, but I decided to stick with the Dynamite episode last month just to be safe.

Bryan Danielson vs Bobby Fish is still a cool match-up to see live 

That match-up taking place in a different promotion sounded impossible just a year ago too.


----------



## Prized Fighter

ThirdMan said:


> Put DC vs Legit DMD on Rampage this Friday. I mean, it's in Miami, after all. That'll surely win the demo.


Screw that, put it on the Buy-In.


----------



## ThirdMan

Prized Fighter said:


> Screw that, put it on the Buy-In.


Yeah, that was my first thought, but sadly, demos don't come into play there.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

ThirdMan said:


> Put DC vs Legit DMD on Rampage this Friday. I mean, it's in Miami, after all. That'll surely win the demo.


*I already won the title match breh. We don't do pointless rematches here at AEW 😏.*


----------



## ThirdMan

Nah, DC's a little guy, so he should put on a luchador mask (as a disguise), and do some Rey Mysterio shit on you. The crowd won't realize it's a rematch until it's too late. 

BTW, @DammitChrist , you can get into the Friday show for $10 (and meet Cody) if you bring a heritage flag.


----------



## the_flock

Erik. said:


> I didn't say DVR numbers mattered.
> 
> I said AEW fans will watch Rampage on Friday or they will DVR it (Because people tend to be busy Friday nights) and watch it at a different time.


Busy on a Friday night watching Netflix.


----------



## the_flock

Chip Chipperson said:


> I've heard Bischoff talk about Thunder enough times to know that he always knew Thunder was a huge mistake and that Thunder was the beginning of the end for WCW.


Thunder wasn't a mistake. The issue was that there wasn't a separate budget for it, so the money they received had to be split between all shows. They couldn't afford new production staff either, so they were all doing double duty. To pay for Thunder they had to run more house shows. 

The wrestlers were also on contracts which only allowed them to work a certain amount of shows per year, because they were working the increased house shows, they then weren't available for Thunder. 

Which will all be problems for AEW in the future.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1448286904538091523

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *No more timeslot nonsense if OC increased viewership after a Danielson opener against a guy no one cares about. Once again, people will watch if they think it's worth watching.*


STFU. Less than 700k are still the only people watching, because it is a fucking garbage time slot that you don’t fucking get.


----------



## Dr. Middy

The timeslot is just an excuse for a shitty put together show, you all should know that by now. Maybe if they actually put their A talent on the show, you wouldn't have 400K and dropping. They should be able to get a million on that show, period.


----------



## 3venflow

So you expect better cards at 10pm than one with an AEW World Tag Title match, an FTW Title match (blowing off a feud), a CM Punk match against one of the company's best prospects and a Jade Cargill match? What exactly should they give away in such a timeslot? There was literally nothing wrong with last Friday's card, it was strong for something in that timeslot and did a lower rating. Competition didn't help, as I posted above the MLB and college football matches right now are eating into pro wrestling as a whole - WWE and AEW. I think they should continue with the current Rampage format so long as TNT are happy with it.


----------



## bdon

DaSlacker said:


> You can be preoccupied with growth but you've still got to keep your loyal customers happy.


I’d have lost interest if this became a WWE show with the way that goddamn NY crowd was doing the “What!?” every time Scorpio stopped speaking.

Stick to AEW.


----------



## Dr. Middy

3venflow said:


> So you expect better cards at 10pm than one with an AEW World Tag Title match, an FTW Title match (blowing off a feud), a CM Punk match against one of the company's best prospects and a Jade Cargill match? What exactly should they give away in such a timeslot? There was literally nothing wrong with last Friday's card, it was strong for something in that timeslot and did a lower rating. Competition didn't help, as I posted above the MLB and college football matches right now are eating into pro wrestling as a whole - WWE and AEW. I think they should continue with the current Rampage format so long as TNT are happy with it.


That world title match had no build to it, and how many times is Punk going to wrestle lower card guys before people lose interest? 

Competition is always going to be there, we can't make excuses for it week in and week out. Sports especially are always on, you got to live with it and book stronger. Why not put a segment in there with Britt Baker hyping up her next challenger? Or something with the Elite? 

Sorry but excuses are excuses.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Dr. Middy said:


> That world title match had no build to it, and how many times is Punk going to wrestle lower card guys before people lose interest?
> 
> Competition is always going to be there, we can't make excuses for it week in and week out. Sports especially are always on, you got to live with it and book stronger. Why not put a segment in there with Britt Baker hyping up her next challenger? Or something with the Elite?
> 
> Sorry but excuses are excuses.


*Yeah, hype segments should definitely be the move. They've lost over 200,000 viewers in a matter of weeks. Everyone here agreed that 700k+ is decent for the time slot, but now all of a sudden it's the ONLY reason people don't want to watch garbage, Dark level matches with obvious outcomes.*


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> So you expect better cards at 10pm than one with an AEW World Tag Title match, an FTW Title match (blowing off a feud), a CM Punk match against one of the company's best prospects and a Jade Cargill match? What exactly should they give away in such a timeslot? There was literally nothing wrong with last Friday's card, it was strong for something in that timeslot and did a lower rating. Competition didn't help, as I posted above the MLB and college football matches right now are eating into pro wrestling as a whole - WWE and AEW. I think they should continue with the current Rampage format so long as TNT are happy with it.


Best way is to probably just go the old Raw and SmackDown model, where SmackDown was a direct continuation of Raw, especially since the time slot is ass. If DX laid out The Rock and Jericho won the IC title on Raw, those big moments were followed up on that week's SmackDown. Those big stories weren't going to be put to the side because in the meantime they needed to blow off Crash Holly vs Hardcore Holly over the hardcore title.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Best way is to probably just go the old Raw and SmackDown model, where SmackDown was a direct continuation of Raw, especially since the time slot is ass. If DX laid out The Rock and Jericho won the IC title on Raw, those big moments were followed up on that week's SmackDown. Those big stories weren't going to be put to the side because in the meantime they needed to blow off Crash Holly vs Hardcore Holly over the hardcore title.


*The same people making awful excuses for the rating are saying Evan Bourne vs CM Punk will outdraw Sasha vs Becky head to head. *


----------



## Dr. Middy

The Legit DMD said:


> *Yeah, hype segments should definitely be the move. They've lost over 200,000 viewers in a matter of weeks. Everyone here agreed that 700k+ is decent for the time slot, but now all of a sudden it's the ONLY reason people don't want to watch garbage, Dark level matches with obvious outcomes.*


@3venflow 

I was fucking with the both of you actually haha. (I knew Boss would like those posts)

In reality, the timeslot is shit yes, and probably their high is going be 700K or so. And they have to expect that sports will take some viewers away. It's sucks that they have to battle with those two things concurrently, but I think they can still get to around 600K consistently which I think would be good.

But I do think Rampage needs more of an identity. I do like the pre-match segments Mark Henry does, those at least make it feel different. I think the whole idea right now is to go for more of an action based show, which explains why you don't see many segments on the show. I don't think that is working exactly, and given how good for example that Ruby/Britt segment did, I'd still maybe put one big key segment on the show at least, but I would still start with a hot match. 

And I also get what they are doing with Punk, and they think that having him wrestle on Rampage will help bring in viewers on the show, but it does seem like he sort of is being wasted in that role. I'd rather they start off with like a hot midcard feud or something instead that actually has some background and story behind it.

But I think the biggest thing is trying to find an identity for the show. Rampage just feels like B-level Dynamite right now. I do enjoy the show for what it is and like the length, but it should feel a bit different.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Dr. Middy said:


> @3venflow
> 
> I was fucking with the both of you actually haha. (I knew Boss would like those posts)
> 
> In reality, the timeslot is shit yes, and probably their high is going be 700K or so. And they have to expect that sports will take some viewers away. It's sucks that they have to battle with those two things concurrently, but I think they can still get to around 600K consistently which I think would be good.
> 
> But I do think Rampage needs more of an identity. I do like the pre-match segments Mark Henry does, those at least make it feel different. I think the whole idea right now is to go for more of an action based show, which explains why you don't see many segments on the show. I don't think that is working exactly, and given how good for example that Ruby/Britt segment did, I'd still maybe put one big key segment on the show at least, but I would still start with a hot match.
> 
> And I also get what they are doing with Punk, and they think that having him wrestle on Rampage will help bring in viewers on the show, but it does seem like he sort of is being wasted in that role. I'd rather they start off with like a hot midcard feud or something instead that actually has some background and story behind it.
> 
> But I think the biggest thing is trying to find an identity for the show. Rampage just feels like B-level Dynamite right now. I do enjoy the show for what it is and like the length, but it should feel a bit different.


*Exactly. A mixture of what you and @RapShepard said would be awesome. Give me a reason to watch Rampage. Do a contract signing there. Make exclusive announcements. Do a cliffhanger on Dynamite for live Rampages so we MUST watch to get answers. Stop doing generic jobber vs star shit that already drags down the main show and completely pollutes the Youtube shows.*


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> *The same people making awful excuses for the rating are saying Evan Bourne vs CM Punk will outdraw Sasha vs Becky head to head. *


Yeah but that's fandom talking nothing wrong with it, as long as they can take their likely L if Punk doesn't out do them.


----------



## 3venflow

RapShepard said:


> Best way is to probably just go the old Raw and SmackDown model, where SmackDown was a direct continuation of Raw, especially since the time slot is ass.


But one of the big things about Rampage was it being created to give more of their big roster TV time, so if you put the same guys on Dynamite and Rampage one after another, what about the rest of them?

AEW's roster is a similar size (smaller if you include the NXTs and 205) to WWE's, who have two fully fledged brands with exclusive talents.

Like, Rampage has been instrumental in Daniel Garcia breaking out. His matches against Punk, Darby and Moxley were on Rampage. Had Rampage not existed or he been shunted in favour of the same guys from Dynamite being on, there's a big chance he'd never have gotten that opportunity and been placed on Dark until whenever.



The Legit DMD said:


> The same people making awful excuses for the rating are saying Evan Bourne vs CM Punk will outdraw Sasha vs Becky head to head.


How many people on this board are saying that? Is this one of those imaginary enemies again?

I for one think any match on Rampage has next to no chance of beating any match on Smackdown.



Dr. Middy said:


> In reality, the timeslot is shit yes, and probably their high is going be 700K or so.


I think 700k~750k is about realistic as their best unless they have something special. Some point to the 0.53 / 1.13m rating, but CM Punk returning after seven years is going to cause a major, MAJOR anomaly with ratings. It's a bad faith argument to say "they've dropped from 1.1m, stop making excuses!" because they can't bring back CM Punk every week.

However, they do need to arrest the decline. The total viewership isn't the issue, it's the 18-49 dropping from 0.30+ to 0.17. That's what might concern TNT more than a couple hundred thousand viewers at that time. But even 0.17 is better than most non-MLB/college football does on Fridays so they may still be within 'acceptable' range, but will want it back up for reasons like getting a better timeslot in future.



> But I do think Rampage needs more of an identity.


I like its format and the hour usually flies by. AEW is a pro wrestling show so they're not going to fill the hour with skits. They've put storylines or concepts like the AEW Tag Title Eliminator Tournament, the Bunny/Penelope vs. TayJay feud, the Statlander vs. Britt/Hayter/Rebel thing, Andrade vs. PAC rescheduled match, Cage vs. Starks blowoff, and the Miro vs. Fuego stuff leading to Miro vs. Sammy on there. It isn't just random WCW Saturday Night matches, but they can't and shouldn't give away many marquee matches on there because there's always going to be a limited number of viewers at that time of night.

The Friday night death slot is no myth.





__





Loading…






en.wikipedia.org


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dr. Middy said:


> The timeslot is just an excuse for a shitty put together show, you all should know that by now. Maybe if they actually put their A talent on the show, you wouldn't have 400K and dropping. They should be able to get a million on that show, period.


I thought last week was an excellent show


----------



## bdon

Imagine living and breathing on ratings. Now imagine caring about women’s wrestling so much that you use their ratings as proof that it is more fun to watch.

Some of y’all should try getting laid once in a while.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *Exactly. A mixture of what you and @RapShepard said would be awesome. Give me a reason to watch Rampage. Do a contract signing there. Make exclusive announcements. Do a cliffhanger on Dynamite for live Rampages so we MUST watch to get answers. Stop doing generic jobber vs star shit that already drags down the main show and completely pollutes the Youtube shows.*


I think it's just best if they do the opposite of your ideas since they don't seem to be in any danger from being kicked out by TNT (because it's obviously an awful time slot, so they clearly understand the expectations since Day 1).


----------



## bdon

Sable segments did great for WWE as well, doesn’t make it good for wrestling. Fuck the pervs who only watch women’s wrestling hoping for that ever elusive nipple slip.

Bunch of creeps. Lol


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> But one of the big things about Rampage was it being created to give more of their big roster TV time, so if you put the same guys on Dynamite and Rampage one after another, what about the rest of them?
> 
> AEW's roster is a similar size (smaller if you include the NXTs and 205) to WWE's, who have two fully fledged brands with exclusive talents.
> 
> Like, Rampage has been instrumental in Daniel Garcia breaking out. His matches against Punk, Darby and Moxley were on Rampage. Had Rampage not existed or he been shunted in favour of the same guys from Dynamite being on, there's a big chance he'd never have gotten that opportunity and been placed on Dark until whenever.


But the problem is those people who rarely get time on Dynamite certainly aren't over enough to not keep Rampage from struggling and seeming lesser than. They just have to make better use of their roster on the big show that is Dynamite. Folk might not like to hear it, but one thing NXT 2.0 is doing right is figuring out how to get a sizeable amount of talent on in their 2 hour spot. It might bother folk that hate matches under 10minutes. But it'd feature more of AEW's talents. 

NXT yesterday had 9 matches 3 that went just over 10 minutes and that featured 26 people either wrestling or managing. That's not including people who were included via run-ins, promos, or vignettes. AEW could make good use of that type of model and get more people on screen and over.

That way they can get to a place where something like say OCvs Garcia doesn't feels like a throw away b show match


----------



## DammitChrist

RapShepard said:


> But the problem is those people who rarely get time on Dynamite certainly aren't over enough to not keep Rampage from struggling and seeming lesser than. They just have to make better use of their roster on the big show that is Dynamite. Folk might not like to hear it, but one thing NXT 2.0 is doing right is figuring out how to get a sizeable amount of talent on in their 2 hour spot. It might bother folk that hate matches under 10minutes. But it'd feature more of AEW's talents.
> 
> NXT yesterday had 9 matches 3 that went just over 10 minutes and that featured 26 people either wrestling or managing. That's not including people who were included via run-ins, promos, or vignettes. AEW could make good use of that type of model and get more people on screen and over.
> 
> That way they can get to a place where something like say OCvs Garcia doesn't feels like a throw away b show match


Honestly, I think you're underestimating how much a great portion of the AEW audience enjoy those weekly, lengthy matches on TV


----------



## bdon

I mean, in the same light, goddamn Orange Cassidy was “outdrawing” everyone when the audience was very fucking niche during the pandemic.

Orange Cassidy outdrawing anyone during the most niche of times does not equate to Orange Cassidy being a draw. Women drawing eyes in an era of unmarried neckbeards does not mean they are headlining good shows.

It just means they’re the most popular acts within a very niche audience.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Looks like Punk’s the only reason they stayed above 500k, but man it’s not good mid-high 500k is all he managed.

One thing I’m wondering is if no Dynamite on Wednesday will help Rampage out on Friday? People looking to get their fix of AEW stuff might be more inclined to tune into Rampage this week.

(They’re still not touching Smackdown, but I think the show has potential to at least see one 700k+ quarter).


----------



## CM Buck

bdon said:


> STFU. Less than 700k are still the only people watching, because it is a fucking garbage time slot that you don’t fucking get.


Cool it down bud


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> Honestly, I think you're underestimating how much a great portion of the AEW audience enjoy those weekly, lengthy matches on TV


I'm sure they do, doesn't mean a tweak couldn't accomplish solving the issue of not being able to feature people on TV. Did Serena and Shida really need to go 10 minutes this week? Did the 8-man tag really need to be 17 minutes? Cut 7 minutes from the 8-man and 5 minutes from the women, you can still have 2 cool matches. But now there's 12 more minutes free to run another short match and do vignettes or promos for somebody who didn't originally appear.


----------



## Dr. Middy

RapShepard said:


> But the problem is those people who rarely get time on Dynamite certainly aren't over enough to not keep Rampage from struggling and seeming lesser than. They just have to make better use of their roster on the big show that is Dynamite. Folk might not like to hear it, but one thing NXT 2.0 is doing right is figuring out how to get a sizeable amount of talent on in their 2 hour spot. It might bother folk that hate matches under 10minutes. But it'd feature more of AEW's talents.
> 
> NXT yesterday had 9 matches 3 that went just over 10 minutes and that featured 26 people either wrestling or managing. That's not including people who were included via run-ins, promos, or vignettes. AEW could make good use of that type of model and get more people on screen and over.
> 
> That way they can get to a place where something like say OCvs Garcia doesn't feels like a throw away b show match


I mean if you count everybody featured in their own promo segment or match on Dynamite, I think you end up with even more than 26 actually, so I don't think that itself is much of an issue.


----------



## bdon

I remain steadfast in my hope that AEW signs elsewhere next round of TV negotiations. TNT continues fucking with AEW’s potential growth. Every time they get momentum, you can tell they take the foot off the gas knowing TNT is fixing to change their time slot for a week or two. Putting Rampage on at 10pm on Friday night was always going to be a massive goddamn hurdle, which is why I predicted we were getting DARK with more 2-3 more stars attached.

The Graveyard death slot is shitty for ALL television, which is precisely why we have evidence dating back to the late 60s of television shows being canceled the minute they find their way to Friday nights.


----------



## bdon

Rampage or any show going on Friday’s every now and then? The audience can shift their schedules one week to not miss it.

Make that a permanent thing, and that show is destined to be cancelled soon enough.


----------



## RapShepard

Dr. Middy said:


> I mean if you count everybody featured in their own promo segment or match on Dynamite, I think you end up with even more than 26 actually, so I don't think that itself is much of an issue.


But I was just talking 26 people attached to matches and not a single match was bigger than a tag matches. That's a lot of folk used and able to shine. Especially for the new faces.


----------



## .christopher.

RapShepard said:


> Best way is to probably just go the old Raw and SmackDown model, where SmackDown was a direct continuation of Raw, especially since the time slot is ass. If DX laid out The Rock and Jericho won the IC title on Raw, those big moments were followed up on that week's SmackDown. Those big stories weren't going to be put to the side because in the meantime they needed to blow off Crash Holly vs Hardcore Holly over the hardcore title.


Except that was what made the original SmackDown so good. You'd have the continuation of the big storylines/moments AND you'd get that Holly vs Holly match. It was a great mixture of progressing tv stories and doing something new at the same time.

That should have been the only way to use Rampage.


----------



## RapShepard

.christopher. said:


> Except that was what made the original SmackDown so good. You'd have the continuation of the big storylines/moments AND you'd get that Holly vs Holly match. It was a great mixture of progressing tv stories and doing something new at the same time.
> 
> That should have been the only way to use Rampage.


Agreed, but I'm taking in consideration they don't have that extra hour.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Agreed, but I'm taking in consideration they don't have that extra hour.


*It's not like they have two hours worth of hot angles right now. Even Britt ain't doing shit.*


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> *It's not like they have two hours worth of hot angles right now. Even Britt ain't doing shit.*


Lucha Bro either all that title win momentum is gone


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Just to quell any upcoming annoying discussions on both sides, I'll play devil's advocate...Miami has always been a very difficult town to sell out for wrestling for whatever reason. Wrestlers have talked about it, Cornette and Meltzer have too. On that note I don't even know why they ran Miami but they picked a small building for a reason.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

GNKenny said:


> Just to quell any upcoming annoying discussions on both sides, I'll play devil's advocate...Miami has always been a very difficult town to sell out for wrestling for whatever reason. Wrestlers have talked about it, Cornette and Meltzer have too. On that note I don't even know why they ran Miami but they picked a small building for a reason.


You've been here long enough to know there's no quelling 😂

I agree though - hopefully they don't do Miami again soon (sorry to the natives)


----------



## 3venflow

GNKenny said:


> Just to quell any upcoming annoying discussions on both sides, I'll play devil's advocate...Miami has always been a very difficult town to sell out for wrestling for whatever reason. Wrestlers have talked about it, Cornette and Meltzer have too. On that note I don't even know why they ran Miami but they picked a small building for a reason.


I keep up with ticket sales and have a subscription to WrestleTix and the Miami Rampage has been AEW's toughest sell since they went back on the road As of Tuesday, they'd only sold 1,725 (58%) of those available, although there has apparently been a fair bit of movement in the past day so there'll be an updated count soon.

Dynamite is faring better with 2,417 (80%) sold as of Tuesday and that has probably moved more since.

All of AEW's other shows are selling well enough. November Chicago show has moved over 7,000 tickets and is currently just about sold out unless they can open more sections. The Norfolk show after Full Gear has sold over 4,000, the upcoming Orlando show around 5,000 and Full Gear must be pushing 10,000 sold by now.


----------



## 3venflow

Capacity increased for Full Gear after good advanced sales.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1448453122666504194


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

GNKenny said:


> Just to quell any upcoming annoying discussions on both sides, I'll play devil's advocate...Miami has always been a very difficult town to sell out for wrestling for whatever reason. Wrestlers have talked about it, Cornette and Meltzer have too. On that note I don't even know why they ran Miami but they picked a small building for a reason.


*And this is the part where I say just because it's difficult doesn't mean they shouldn't try and just put in a B team effort. I'm genuinely disappointed as a Miami resident that wanted to attend live.*


----------



## RapShepard

GNKenny said:


> Just to quell any upcoming annoying discussions on both sides, I'll play devil's advocate...Miami has always been a very difficult town to sell out for wrestling for whatever reason. Wrestlers have talked about it, Cornette and Meltzer have too. On that note I don't even know why they ran Miami but they picked a small building for a reason.


They aren't going to always sellout it's all well and good.


----------



## Not Lying

I’ve gotta add AEW does a TERRIBLE job at promoting MMA guys. 
I have a lot of friends into MMA, many who used to watch wrestling when they were younger, and none even asked me about it, they’re not aware of it. 
I mean Masdival is as big of a star as Punk and he had 1/10th the hype (I’ve had many of them ask me about Punk, they knew it happened)… could have promoted this shit a bit more.

Even dating back to Tyson’s first appearances, terrible terrible promotion for this crossover.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> I’ve gotta add AEW does a TERRIBLE job at promoting MMA guys.
> I have a lot of friends into MMA, many who used to watch wrestling when they were younger, and none even asked me about it, they’re not aware of it.
> I mean Masdival is as big of a star as Punk and he had 1/10th the hype (I’ve had many of them ask me about Punk, they knew it happened)… could have promoted this shit a bit more.
> 
> Even dating back to Tyson’s first appearances, terrible terrible promotion for this crossover.


*Ethan Page and Scorpio Sky are holding back the MMA stable by existing. Lambert needs to get rid of them.*


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> *Ethan Page and Scorpio Sky are holding back the MMA stable by existing. Lambert needs to get rid of them.*


The MMA stable sucks. The MMA guys can't wrestle and Ethan and Scorpio don't matter. Shits dead on arrival.


----------



## Not Lying

The Legit DMD said:


> *Ethan Page and Scorpio Sky are holding back the MMA stable by existing. Lambert needs to get rid of them.*


Ugh. I can’t wait for Page to turn on Sky and get this shit over with. 

Sky is a decent mid-card babyface and Page has more potential as a top heel.



RapShepard said:


> The MMA stable sucks. The MMA guys can't wrestle and Ethan and Scorpio don't matter. Shits dead on arrival.


Paige Vanzant is the best fit for wrestling from a first impression pov. Would to see her vs Thunder Rosa


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> Ugh. I can’t wait for Page to turn on Sky and get this shit over with.
> 
> Sky is a decent mid-card babyface and Page has more potential as a top heel.
> 
> 
> 
> Paige Vanzant is the best fit for wrestling from a first impression pov. Would to see her vs Thunder Rosa


She's not lol she's just not good she's a mediocre fighter, with mediocre celeb looks, and no fucking charisma.


----------



## Not Lying

RapShepard said:


> She's not lol she's just not good she's a mediocre fighter, with mediocre celeb looks, and no fucking charisma.


completely disagree except about her skill level as a fighter 🤣


----------



## RapShepard

The Definition of Technician said:


> completely disagree except about her skill level as a fighter [emoji1787]


Fair enough, but slim women ain't my bag so maybe I just don't get it [emoji23]


----------



## PavelGaborik

The Definition of Technician said:


> completely disagree except about her skill level as a fighter 🤣


Ray was being generous if we're being honest, PVZ is an absolutely terrible fighter who hasn't won a single fight in 3 years, against pretty mediocre competition.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW's replacement on TNT last night, an NHL game, did a 0.32 rating in the 18-49 and 817,000 total viewers.

Looking at the top 150, Dynamite would've finished second or third on cable. Real Housewives of Beverly Hills did a strong 0.52 and Dynamite wouldn't have beaten that, while Challenge did 0.37, the same as Dynamite last week.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> AEW's replacement on TNT last night, an NHL game, did a 0.32 rating in the 18-49 and 817,000 total viewers.
> 
> Looking at the top 150, Dynamite would've finished second or third on cable. Real Housewives of Beverly Hills did a strong 0.52 and Dynamite wouldn't have beaten that, while Challenge did 0.37, the same as Dynamite last week.


do we know how much tnt paid for the NHL?

edit> secondary package at 225m per year. quite a bit more than the 175m for 4 years they paid dynamite

rights renewals are gonna be interesting in 3 years time


----------



## Prized Fighter

3venflow said:


> AEW's replacement on TNT last night, an NHL game, did a 0.32 rating in the 18-49 and 817,000 total viewers.
> 
> Looking at the top 150, Dynamite would've finished second or third on cable. Real Housewives of Beverly Hills did a strong 0.52 and Dynamite wouldn't have beaten that, while Challenge did 0.37, the same as Dynamite last week.


I am not sure why, but there is clearly some cross over audience between AEW and the Real Housewives.

Real Housewives last week against Dynamite:
Male Demo: 0.19
Female Demo: 0.59
Total Demo: 0.39

Real Housewives without Dynamite:
Male Demo: 0.32
Female Demo: 0.76
Total Demo: 0.54

This also give data to the theory that AEW's female audience is getting hurt by the Real Housewives. That is still their biggest possible area to gain viewers.


----------



## 3venflow

This Friday's Rampage has moved from 58% (1,725) of available tickets sold to 66% (2,373) in the past day or two. By showtime it should be a better crowd than expected earlier this week - no doubt the addition of Danielson vs. Suzuki is helping.


----------



## Fearless Viper

Smackdown on FS1 drew 793,000 viewers while Rampage on TNT drew 549,000 viewers.



https://nodq.com/news/preliminary-viewership-numbers-for-wwe-smackdown-and-aew-rampage-from-october-15th-2021/


----------



## rich110991

Fearless Viper said:


> Smackdown on FS1 drew 793,000 viewers while Rampage on TNT drew 549,000 viewers.
> 
> 
> 
> https://nodq.com/news/preliminary-viewership-numbers-for-wwe-smackdown-and-aew-rampage-from-october-15th-2021/


FFS. People don’t know what they’re missing.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Lolll


----------



## El Hammerstone

Yikes


----------



## Hephaesteus

Got my popcorn ready. proceed


----------



## Dizzie

Surely nobody expected aew to beat smackdown.

Smackdown is wwe's A show and rampage is aew's b show

Khan was really naive to think he could beat it


----------



## La Parka

rich110991 said:


> FFS. People don’t know what they’re missing.


Oh they know


----------



## 3venflow

I can't recall anyone on this board actually predicting Rampage to beat Smackdown? Just the usual suspects creating an imaginary enemy so they can gloat when the inevitable happened. Rampage was never beating Smackdown even with network shift due to the brand power of Smackdown and the big card they put on in comparison.

With that said, 549k in the overnights suggests a big increase on recent weeks since the final number will be higher. Last week it did 466k in the fast nationals and ended up at 502k. Not sure if there is a specific % it always rises, but both Smackdown and Rampage's final ratings will be higher.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Fearless Viper said:


> Smackdown on FS1 drew 793,000 viewers while Rampage on TNT drew 549,000 viewers.
> 
> 
> 
> https://nodq.com/news/preliminary-viewership-numbers-for-wwe-smackdown-and-aew-rampage-from-october-15th-2021/


The rating is way more important than total viewers. Nobody cares about the amount of 50+ year olds watching WWE.

By total viewers, Rampage did far closer to Smackdown (as a %), than Dynamite has done to Raw


----------



## La Parka

Randy Lahey said:


> The rating is way more important than total viewers. Nobody cares about the amount of 50+ year olds watching WWE.


Couldn’t be too many. AEW had most of them featured on the card.


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> I can't recall anyone on this board actually predicting Rampage to beat Smackdown? Just the usual suspects creating an imaginary enemy so they can gloat when the inevitable happened. Rampage was never beating Smackdown even with network shift due to the brand power of Smackdown and the big card they put on in comparison.
> 
> With that said, 549k in the overnights suggests a big increase on recent weeks since the final number will be higher. Last week it did 466k in the fast nationals and ended up at 502k. Not sure if there is a specific % it always rises, but both Smackdown and Rampage's final ratings will be higher.


Call em out I want to see war and discord in this thread


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Fearless Viper said:


> Smackdown on FS1 drew 793,000 viewers while Rampage on TNT drew 549,000 viewers.
> 
> 
> 
> https://nodq.com/news/preliminary-viewership-numbers-for-wwe-smackdown-and-aew-rampage-from-october-15th-2021/


Anybody know how the half hours stacked up?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

No surprise. Smackdown this week was always beating Rampage.

Rampage increasing though from last week at least indicates all the trolling Khan did worked to a degree. SD a good deal lower than the last FS1 episode, and Rampage went up a bit from last week. It’s not a victory for AEW by any means, but a decent performance. Will need to see final number and quarters though. I’m guessing final numbers will be around 850k for SD and 580k for Rampage.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ps> i’m also gonna need receipts

if anybody wants to gloat and say we didn’t expect this - quote the post where a user said Rampage will beat smackdown

i’m with rap, lets go all in on this bitch


----------



## 3venflow

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Rampage increasing though from last week at least indicates all the trolling Khan did worked to a degree.


Yes. I thought last week's card was stronger. It had a CM Punk match much like last night, but also had an AEW Tag Team Title match and a blowoff to Starks vs. Cage as opposed to the Inner Circle vs. Men of the Year + JDS.

I thought last week's show deserved a better rating, but it looks like the chatter and the pre-show (which ruled and was better than Rampage itself) has given Rampage a needed boost - assuming the 18-49 also rises, because that was the drop that was most concerning last week (0.25 to 0.17). AEW and TNT would frown more at that than a difference of 100,000 total viewers.

Perhaps an ad-free opening match should be a weekly thing like it is on Dynamite.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Ps> i’m also gonna need receipts
> 
> if anybody wants to gloat and say we didn’t expect this - quote the post where a user said Rampage will beat smackdown
> 
> i’m with rap, lets go all in on this bitch


Most I seen was folk saying they thought AEW would lose, but they didn't care they were watching the Buy-In and Rampage and Vince could eat a bag of dicks.


----------



## RainmakerV2




----------



## InexorableJourney

What are the demo's, since that's what really matters.


----------



## rich110991

It also proves IMO that the 2m+ who watch Smackdown normally, couldn’t be bothered to look for it this week. So they just watch out of habit because it’s on Fox 🤷‍♂️


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rich110991 said:


> It also proves IMO that the 2m+ who watch Smackdown normally, couldn’t be bothered to look for it this week. So they just watch out of habit because it’s on Fox 🤷‍♂️


Isn’t fox freeview and fs1 cable?

might explain it


----------



## Christopher Near

I thought Tony said he couldn't wait to best smackdown. According to some people he was apparently joking lol. Triple h would've been ripped apart for that comment


----------



## The XL 2

Rampage's viewership isn't good, but Smackdowns is an absolute fucking embarrassment. The two shows combined for less than 1 and a half million viewers, lmfao. The state of the wrestling business is an absolute joke.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The XL 2 said:


> Rampage's viewership isn't good, but Smackdowns is an absolute fucking embarrassment. The two shows combined for less than 1 and a half million viewers, lmfao. The state of the wrestling business is an absolute joke.


Smackdown on FS1 though. They'll be back to two million again.


----------



## Seth Grimes

Woah, I never thought there'd be so many of you working in the advertising industry! You guys must really care about the demo! Not trying to get insignificant wins in any way possible or anything


----------



## DaSlacker

Pretty clear to me now that the AEW Dynamite viewing audience is about 50-60% of WWE Raw and AEW Rampage is about 60-70% of WWE Friday Night SmackDown (assuming it was still on cable). The former is skewed towards AEW because Raw is competing with MNF and Dancing with the Stars; the latter is skewed towards WWE because it has a better timeslot. 

To be fair, it's closer than TNA ever got.


----------



## Wynter

The XL 2 said:


> Rampage's viewership isn't good, but Smackdowns is an absolute fucking embarrassment. The two shows combined for less than 1 and a half million viewers, lmfao. The state of the wrestling business is an absolute joke.


Zarian already said SD will be over a million once the rest of the numbers come in lol


----------



## the_flock

rich110991 said:


> It also proves IMO that the 2m+ who watch Smackdown normally, couldn’t be bothered to look for it this week. So they just watch out of habit because it’s on Fox 🤷‍♂️


Clutching.


----------



## The XL 2

Chip Chipperson said:


> Smackdown on FS1 though. They'll be back to two million again.


The fact that people won't merely change the channel to FS1 to watch shows you how little enthusiasm their is for the WWE product.


----------



## Seth Grimes

The XL 2 said:


> The fact that people won't merely change the channel to FS1 to watch shows you how little enthusiasm their is for the WWE product.


The fact that Dynamite's highest ratings were on debut, and has never been reached again has shown how little enthusiasm people have for the AEW product

The fact that allllllll of Dynamite's highest ratings are when ex WWE guys debut, and then they decline right after, shows how little enthusiasm there is for the AEW product


----------



## The XL 2

Seth Grimes said:


> The fact that Dynamite's highest ratings were on debut, and has never been reached again has shown how little enthusiasm people have for the AEW product
> 
> The fact that allllllll of Dynamite's highest ratings are when ex WWE guys debut, and then they decline right after, shows how little enthusiasm there is for the AEW product


I'm far from a big AEW fan, but lets be honest, there isn't much interest in the WWE product. The fact that you're bragging about them barely beating an upstart promotion filled with vanilla midgets and indyreffic spot monkeys shows the ill state of the WWE.


----------



## validreasoning

The XL 2 said:


> The fact that people won't merely change the channel to FS1 to watch shows you how little enthusiasm their is for the WWE product.


SD drew 888,000 in 2019 three weeks after SD did ~3.9m on it Fox debut so yeah WWE SmackDown Draws Under 900K Viewers On FS1, WWE Backstage Viewership Down For Special Airing - Wrestling Inc.

Nobody watches FS1, it's not simply changing the channel. It's moving to a channel that averages about 200,000 viewers in prime time, about 1/5th of TNT..


----------



## The XL 2

validreasoning said:


> SD drew 888,000 in 2019 three weeks after SD did ~3.9m on it Fox debut so yeah WWE SmackDown Draws Under 900K Viewers On FS1, WWE Backstage Viewership Down For Special Airing - Wrestling Inc.
> 
> Nobody watches FS1, it's not simply changing the channel. It's moving to a channel that averages about 200,000 viewers in prime time, about 1/5th of TNT..


About 90% of households with cable have FS1. Just because their other programming sucks doesn't mean that fans of Smackdown couldn't change the channel.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The XL 2 said:


> I'm far from a big AEW fan, but lets be honest, there isn't much interest in the WWE product. The fact that you're bragging about them barely beating an upstart promotion filled with vanilla midgets and indyreffic spot monkeys shows the ill state of the WWE.


They double AEW's top show weekly.


----------



## The XL 2

Chip Chipperson said:


> They double AEW's top show weekly.


Barely and they don't double the demo. AEW is an upstart glorified indy promotion.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The XL 2 said:


> Barely and they don't double the demo. AEW is an upstart glorified indy promotion.


Doesn't matter if it's barely they still double the audience.


----------



## The XL 2

Chip Chipperson said:


> Doesn't matter if it's barely they still double the audience.


Doubling that audience isn't a big deal.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The XL 2 said:


> Doubling that audience isn't a big deal.


Well that's the largest audience in North America for wrestling so it kind of is bro


----------



## Chan Hung

FS1 kicked Rampage's TNT ass, simple and predictable. But it is more embarrassing and moreso when Mr. Khan is boasting bragging about kicking their ass. Rampage's numbers keep falling and falling. The show is no longer must see, it's an easy pass and is quickly becoming a televised AEW Elevation show.. What the fuck was Tony thinking having the segment of Ruby vs Bunny while Roman/Lesnar segment was on?


----------



## DaSlacker

Chip Chipperson said:


> Well that's the largest audience in North America for wrestling so it kind of is bro


It's in a prime time slot on network television against generally weak competition. I can almost guarantee you Friday Night SmackDown would be doing about 1.2 million at the most, on USA Network.


----------



## wwetna1

The XL 2 said:


> About 90% of households with cable have FS1. Just because their other programming sucks doesn't mean that fans of Smackdown couldn't change the channel.


So when they go from a Dodgers Padres game in the playoffs going from 4.9M on fox to 1.2M on FS1 … does that mean the dodgers and mlb fans don’t care either?

Skip and Shannon is the network and their too viewership has been 366,000 viewers … FS1 is in over 10 million less homes than tnt too. And yet they still beat Tony who ran his mouth. Hell I wouldn’t be shocked if the replay fs1 ran came close to rampage either


----------



## rich110991

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Isn’t fox freeview and fs1 cable?
> 
> might explain it


Ok I might have overlooked that fact 👀 I’m no American 🤣


----------



## RoganJosh

Haha TK's trolling seemed to have worked, the Rampage viewership went up. Damn that Smackdown viewership, you would think they would do a bit better than that especially with Brock on the show.


----------



## The XL 2

Chip Chipperson said:


> Well that's the largest audience in North America for wrestling so it kind of is bro


It's a shell of what it used to be. Even compared to 5 years ago. The product isnt any good


----------



## iarwain

Christopher Near said:


> I thought Tony said he couldn't wait to best smackdown. According to some people he was apparently joking lol.


He did say that, but apparently he later backed down off of that remark.


----------



## .christopher.

Chan Hung said:


> FS1 kicked Rampage's TNT ass, simple and predictable. But it is more embarrassing and moreso when Mr. Khan is boasting bragging about kicking their ass. Rampage's numbers keep falling and falling. The show is no longer must see, it's an easy pass and is quickly becoming a televised AEW Elevation show.. What the fuck was Tony thinking having the segment of Ruby vs Bunny while Roman/Lesnar segment was on?


Rampage has never been "must see", tbf.

There was intrigue on its debut with a decent attraction in Omega vs Christian, and had that one "must see" moment in Punk's return, but, aside from that, it's been AEWs version of Velocity/Heat.


----------



## thorn123

Another tick in the column that the lapsed fan base is not interested in the AEW product … no matter how good it is.

We can all list countless tv shows (and movies) that were awesome but didn’t have strong viewership.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DaveRA said:


> Another tick in the column that the lapsed fan base is not interested in the AEW product … no matter how good it is.
> 
> We can all list countless tv shows (and movies) that were awesome but didn’t have strong viewership.


It isn't about how good it is, it's about whether it appeals to these fans and obviously right now it hasn't and never has. The 1.5 million that tuned in day 1 for AEW were probably mainly smarks that AEW has lost along the way.

Can anyone reasonably tell me why AEW isn't using the mainstream names they have (Jericho, Punk, Bryan, Big Show, Mark Henry, Sting, Dos Santos, VanZant etc) to market this product to a wider audience? Tony is happy to spend hundreds of thousands on Matt Hardy but it seems like he doesn't even have a publicity team in place.


----------



## zkorejo

Last time smackdown was on fs1 I am pretty sure it drew over a million. This is bad even for fs1. 

Rampage didn't take a hit from Smackdown atleast.


----------



## La Parka

DaveRA said:


> Another tick in the column that the lapsed fan base is not interested in the AEW product … no matter how good it is.
> 
> We can all list countless tv shows (and movies) that were awesome but didn’t have strong viewership.


Good is subjective. Some people think Raw is good, some people think its shit. Regardless it is still getting viewers. 

Rampage and dynamite have gotten high ratings but often times people watching don’t come back until the next big card or big signing.

Personally I think AEW caters too much towards the hardcore fanbase and has little interest in appealing to anyone outside of that bubble.

Most people (even wrestling fans) are not interested in seeing 15-20 min 6 man tags where guys dive around and roll around the arena while the ref waves and points his hands. Same goes for random Japanese guy vs an actual name. Most people watching Mox and Suzuki will ask themselves why the former unstoppable AEW champion is having this long street fight with someone they’ve never heard of who looks like their grandfather.

AEW is the bar band that never changes anything. If for some reason a bar band got to play with Jimi Hendrix, they’d still be doing their own solos and trying to hang with Jimi and getting in his way.

AEW is the basketball team that signs Lebron James but still starts the PF who was with them from day one.

None of these things are inherently “wrong” but it’s an attitude and presentation that will ultimately struggle to maintain a strong audience. AEW has CM Punk and Daniel Bryan, there is absolutely no reason to still be featuring the Dark Order for 10 mins of your program and having CM Punk go 15 mins with Evan fucking Bourne.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Ps> i’m also gonna need receipts
> 
> if anybody wants to gloat and say we didn’t expect this - quote the post where a user said Rampage will beat smackdown
> 
> i’m with rap, lets go all in on this bitch


*You should know by now that I ALWAYS come with receipts and numbers. I'll be back with the hilarious individual posts when we get the final number.







*


----------



## yeahright2

I´m waiting for results tomorrow before pointing out how TK was wrong.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

yeahright2 said:


> I´m waiting for results tomorrow before pointing out how TK was wrong.


*I just need to know HOW wrong so I can fully emphasize the magnitude of his blunders.*


----------



## zkorejo

TK said they won't beat smackdown but will have a better show. Did exactly that.

SD numbers are really bad even for fs1 considering Lesnar/Reigns and Becky/Sasha.

Not to mention SD is their A show with their biggest/hottest feuds which were featured as mentioned above. Rampage is not Dynamite and did around the same number as every week regardless.

The idea was to embarrass Rampage. They failed at it. But smackdown won the ratings (which was expected anyways). Everybody wins.


----------



## La Parka

zkorejo said:


> TK said they won't beat smackdown but will have a better show. Did exactly that.


Have you ever thought smackdown was better than an AEW show?

Im pretty sure AEW could have Marko Stunt and Luther go for an entire hour and most aew fans would praise it over smackdown.


----------



## the_hound

smackdown had over a million so i'm not entirely sure what your slabbering about


----------



## zkorejo

La Parka said:


> Have you ever thought smackdown was better than an AEW show?
> 
> Im pretty sure AEW could have Marko Stunt and Luther go for an entire hour and most aew fans would praise it over smackdown.


Overall? No. Because it isn't to me. I won't call an entire show good if it only has 1 good feud that I'm invested in. It's a proper wrestling show unlike Rampage. But I prefer Dynamite over both.

Edit: BTW I have always praised WWE and smackdown for everything they do good. I have been giving Roman nothing but compliments ever since he turned heel and started doing good work.

I'm no fanboy for any company. Im a fan of wrestling. And WWE has been shit for years whereas AEW is close to what I always wanted from my wrestling shows. Not perfect but way better than shit WWE has been serving for decades.

I switched to Xbox when ps3 was overpriced despite being a lifelong playstation fan. Then I moved to PS4 when Xbox lost their minds.

That's what a consumer is supposed to do. Blind loyalty to any brand will only lead to monopoly and
disappointment for the consumer in the long run. The businesses are supposed to cater to their market. Not the other way around.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

zkorejo said:


> TK said they won't beat smackdown but will have a better show. Did exactly that.


*We've got our first person trying to change the narrative already.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446679936903925772*


----------



## zkorejo

The Legit DMD said:


> *We've got our first person trying to change the narrative already.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446679936903925772*


Okay I didn't remember that. Fair enough. Feel free to shit on TK for getting carried away. I stand by the rest of my post though.


----------



## Derek30

Sad what wrestling has become in terms of the mainstream. Nobody drawing a dime. Like, holy shit. Hundreds thousands of viewers against just over one million. Really makes you wonder what happens once that older demographic dies off. Is there a new wave of wrestling fans coming up or are both sides of this argument going to be beating their chest over a 500,000 to 350,000 win in 10 years?


----------



## Dr. Middy

I enjoyed Smackdown and Rampage, but you had to know Rampage was never beating Smackdown, it was obvious unless they were gonna have some huge major angle or debut. And that's fine, I never really expected it but I enjoyed Rampage more this week than the last couple. 

Ratings increasing on it again is good, and that Inner Circle/America's Top Team match was way better than I expected and a good end to the show, followed by a tremendously hot segment on Dynamite. So hopefully that got some people interested.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *I just need to know HOW wrong so I can fully emphasize the magnitude of his blunders.*


Yea, I can tell that you're going to be absolutely no buys tomorrow. We don't need to hear more tantrums about the ratings from you.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *You should know by now that I ALWAYS come with receipts and numbers. I'll be back with the hilarious individual posts when we get the final number.
> View attachment 110331
> *


open the 102 no’s and see if the main ‘loyalists’ aren’t in there


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> open the 102 no’s and see if the main ‘loyalists’ aren’t in there


*You said "A USER." I gave you 22.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *You said "A USER." I gave you 22.*


i also said ‘quote the post’

besides, thats 102 receipts the other way - we win even if we lose


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i also said ‘quote the post’
> 
> besides, thats 102 receipts the other way - we win even if we lose


*And I said they'll be quoted on Monday when we have the final number. It's crazy how y'all act like these delusional statements don't exist when people on here are loud and proud about it.*


----------



## Chan Hung

zkorejo said:


> TK said they won't beat smackdown but will have a better show. Did exactly that.
> 
> SD numbers are really bad even for fs1 considering Lesnar/Reigns and Becky/Sasha.
> 
> Not to mention SD is their A show with their biggest/hottest feuds which were featured as mentioned above. Rampage is not Dynamite and did around the same number as every week regardless.
> 
> The idea was to embarrass Rampage. They failed at it. But smackdown won the ratings (which was expected anyways). Everybody wins.


The last 20 seconds with Brock basically telling Roman that Heyman and him signed the contract in the AM was better than the entire episode of Rampage. I'm sorry but CM Punk vs Sydal was not going to get anyone excited. AEW's formatting is awful and they don't know how to properly book more competitive matchups, they do too many top star vs 'nobody cares guy' matches that are hurting them. I dont even watch Rampage anymore. Dynamite i will still watch but even then lately the quality has been falling of that show.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *And I said they'll be quoted on Monday when we have the final number. It's crazy how y'all act like these delusional statements don't exist when people on here are loud and proud about it.*


Are you even allowed to publicly shame multiple posters on here for having faith (even if the odds are unlikely)?



Chan Hung said:


> The last 20 seconds with Brock basically telling Roman that Heyman and him signed the contract in the AM was better than the entire episode of Rampage. I'm sorry but CM Punk vs Sydal was not going to get anyone excited.


Minoru Suzuki vs Bryan Danielson was better than that segment.

Edit:

Hell, even Matt Sydal vs CM Punk was more entertaining to watch.


----------



## RapShepard

Tomorrow's going to be fun, big fun and boy when them quarter hour drops


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *And I said they'll be quoted on Monday when we have the final number. It's crazy how y'all act like these delusional statements don't exist when people on here are loud and proud about it.*


ok, 20% delusional statements exist

i can admit that

can you admit 80% reasonable statements exist?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ok, 20% delusional statements exist
> 
> i can admit that
> 
> can you admit 80% reasonable statements exist?


*Well, you just saved me a good 10 minutes on Monday copying and pasting asinine responses, so yes.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DammitChrist said:


> Are you even allowed to publicly shame multiple posters for having faith (even if the odds are unlikely)?
> 
> 
> 
> Minoru Suzuki vs Bryan Danielson was better than that segment.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Hell, even Matt Sydal vs CM Punk was more entertaining to watch.


ah, you’re back - did you have a good night out?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Well, you just saved me a good 10 minutes on Monday copying and pasting asinine responses, so yes.*


you know i would’ve just spent 20 minutes and copied the reasonable responses anyway


----------



## zkorejo

Chan Hung said:


> The last 20 seconds with Brock basically telling Roman that Heyman and him signed the contract in the AM was better than the entire episode of Rampage. I'm sorry but CM Punk vs Sydal was not going to get anyone excited. AEW's formatting is awful and they don't know how to properly book more competitive matchups, they do too many top star vs 'nobody cares guy' matches that are hurting them. I dont even watch Rampage anymore. Dynamite i will still watch but even then lately the quality has been falling of that show.





Chan Hung said:


> The last 20 seconds with Brock basically telling Roman that Heyman and him signed the contract in the AM was better than the entire episode of Rampage. I'm sorry but CM Punk vs Sydal was not going to get anyone excited. AEW's formatting is awful and they don't know how to properly book more competitive matchups, they do too many top star vs 'nobody cares guy' matches that are hurting them. I dont even watch Rampage anymore. Dynamite i will still watch but even then lately the quality has been falling of that show.


What else even was on smackdown other than that segment that lasted all of 5 mins and one good match (Becky vs Sasha). Everything else was either mediocre at best or bad. 

Do you think going extra 30 mins was justified here? By any stretch of imagination? They did extra recaps and card run downs for crown jewel. I'm pretty sure recaps and card run downs took that extra 30 mins. 

Rampage had two solid matches Punk vs Sydal and mainevent was pretty good. Bryan vs Suzuki was an amazing bonus match to hype up rampage and set the mood. Short and sweet. Rampage always is 2-3 matches with one short promo or segment. For a standard Rampage it was good. Smackdown was below average for a go home show for Crown Jewel.


----------



## DammitChrist

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ah, you’re back - did you have a good night out?


Yep, Andrade El Idolo vs Pac and Super Kliq vs Dark Order were awesome matches.

The crowd LOVED Adam Page, CM Punk, Bryan Danielson, Sammy Guevara, Chris Jericho, Britt Baker, Adam Cole, and Thunder Rosa.

We loved Tony Khan and Aubrey Edwards too.

The likes of Pac, Malakai Black, Jon Moxley, Cody Rhodes (mostly), Lucha Bros, Ruby Soho, Dark Order, and Anna Jay had pretty solid crowd reactions too.

Bobby Fish vs Bryan Danielson was a really good main-event.

Malakai Black's entrance was pretty damn cool to witness in-person.

I was blessed to see Britt Baker compete in the ring, and I think Anna Jay just had her best match facing her.

Dan Lambert and MJF were the most hated heels (especially Lambert who we could BARELY hear speak).

Evil Uno pulling out Mr. Socko was unexpected and fun.

John Silver and Alex Reynolds kissing Adam Cole on the cheek (replacing the Young Bucks here) was hilarious.

It was also cool seeing this show on Kenny Omega's birthday.

Miami is a pretty good wrestling crowd, and the venue itself was pretty cool 

Edit:

It was easy arriving inside the building too, and we had pretty good seats too


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

zkorejo said:


> What else even was on smackdown other than that segment that lasted all of 5 mins and one good match (Becky vs Sasha). Everything else was either mediocre at best or bad.
> 
> Do you think going extra 30 mins was justified here? By any stretch of imagination? They did extra recaps and card run downs for crown jewel. I'm pretty sure recaps and card run downs took that extra 30 mins.
> 
> Rampage had two solid matches Punk vs Sydal and mainevent was pretty good. Bryan vs Suzuki was an amazing bonus match to hype up rampage and set the mood. Short and sweet. Rampage always is 2-3 matches with one short promo or segment. For a standard Rampage it was good. Smackdown was below average for a go home show for Crown Jewel.


Personally I just don't really see the appeal of Rampage right now. The show always has the same 3 match format and it reminds me heavily of later day Heat episodes. Sure there's a tad more star power at times but the show feels extremely skippable unless you just really love all the AEW wrestlers. Unlike some people here I'm totally fine watching matches with "no story" leading into them but I don't care about a lot of the AEW roster lol. Or the results are super predictable like Punk wrestling these lowcarders.

I looked at the spoilers for next week's show and to me looks like their most skippable show yet.


----------



## zkorejo

GNKenny said:


> Personally I just don't really see the appeal of Rampage right now. The show always has the same 3 match format and it reminds me heavily of later day Heat episodes. Sure there's a tad more star power but the show feels extremely skippable unless you just really love all the AEW wrestlers.


It's more like a one hour dynamite extension that's on another day. It's not close to Dynamite by any means. Easily skippable but if you enjoyed Dynamite that week, chances are you will like those matches. 

It's a 3 match show with atleast 1-2 really good wrestling (First and last mostly).


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DammitChrist said:


> Yep, Andrade El Idolo vs Pac and Super Kliq vs Dark Order were awesome matches.
> 
> The crowd LOVED Adam Page, CM Punk, Bryan Danielson, Sammy Guevara, Chris Jericho, Britt Baker, Adam Cole, and Thunder Rosa.
> 
> We loved Tony Khan and Aubrey Edwards too.
> 
> Bobby Fish vs Bryan Danielson was a really good main-event.
> 
> Malakai Black's entrance was pretty damn cool to witness in-person.
> 
> I was blessed to see Britt Baker compete in the ring, and I think Anna Jay just had her best match facing her.
> 
> Dan Lambert and MJF were the most hated heels (especially Lambert who we could BARELY hear speak).
> 
> Evil Uno pulling out Mr. Socko was unexpected and fun.
> 
> John Silver and Alex Reynolds kissing Adam Cole on the cheek (replacing the Young Bucks here) was hilarious.
> 
> It was also cool seeing this show on Kenny Omega's birthday.
> 
> Miami is a pretty good wrestling crowd, and the venue itself was pretty cool
> 
> Edit:
> 
> It was easy arriving inside the building too, and we had pretty good seats too


dude, you saw an all-time great Hangman promo live - i’m so jealous!


----------



## RapShepard

zkorejo said:


> What else even was on smackdown other than that segment that lasted all of 5 mins and one good match (Becky vs Sasha). Everything else was either mediocre at best or bad.
> 
> Do you think going extra 30 mins was justified here? By any stretch of imagination? They did extra recaps and card run downs for crown jewel. I'm pretty sure recaps and card run downs took that extra 30 mins.
> 
> Rampage had two solid matches Punk vs Sydal and mainevent was pretty good. Bryan vs Suzuki was an amazing bonus match to hype up rampage and set the mood. Short and sweet. Rampage always is 2-3 matches with one short promo or segment. For a standard Rampage it was good. Smackdown was below average for a go home show for Crown Jewel.




Balor vs Zayn

Usos vs Street Profits

Becky vs Sasha

Were all fantastic TV matches

Then you got good story furthering segments with Edge's promo, Rollins promo, and the ending segment. 

Also set up Shayna coming over to SmackDown


----------



## rbl85

So apparently AEW is going to be live for the West coast pretty soon


----------



## Chip Chipperson

zkorejo said:


> TK said they won't beat smackdown but will have a better show. Did exactly that.














Derek30 said:


> Sad what wrestling has become in terms of the mainstream. Nobody drawing a dime. Like, holy shit. Hundreds thousands of viewers against just over one million. Really makes you wonder what happens once that older demographic dies off. Is there a new wave of wrestling fans coming up or are both sides of this argument going to be beating their chest over a 500,000 to 350,000 win in 10 years?


Where both promotions struggle is hooking a new audience. Sure, there's probably new fans being made annually but not at the point where it should be.

WWE seems to just be doing the same thing and seem happy with their 2 million people watching live, million or so watching in other ways (Perhaps more?) and a large international following. Occasionally they'll try and boost things back up with a big time celebrity or whatever but I can't say a non fan would be interested in what they're doing.

AEW is just completely niche and don't seem to understand what a new audience would want. Furthermore, even if they did have what a new audience wanted they don't properly market the product or get it out there enough for people to even take notice. Tony just seems hellbent on winning over people such as the "haters" on this forum who he can hook with a big moment but then quickly lose.

I do think wrestling can become cool again, I have my theories on how we can reach that but neither AEW or WWE are going to hit that in their current shape.


----------



## RoganJosh

Chan Hung said:


> The last 20 seconds with Brock basically telling Roman that Heyman and him signed the contract in the AM was better than the entire episode of Rampage. I'm sorry but CM Punk vs Sydal was not going to get anyone excited. AEW's formatting is awful and they don't know how to properly book more competitive matchups, they do too many top star vs 'nobody cares guy' matches that are hurting them. I dont even watch Rampage anymore. Dynamite i will still watch but even then lately the quality has been falling of that show.


Lay off the weed mate.


----------



## thorn123

La Parka said:


> Good is subjective. Some people think Raw is good, some people think its shit. Regardless it is still getting viewers.
> 
> Rampage and dynamite have gotten high ratings but often times people watching don’t come back until the next big card or big signing.
> 
> Personally I think AEW caters too much towards the hardcore fanbase and has little interest in appealing to anyone outside of that bubble.
> 
> Most people (even wrestling fans) are not interested in seeing 15-20 min 6 man tags where guys dive around and roll around the arena while the ref waves and points his hands. Same goes for random Japanese guy vs an actual name. Most people watching Mox and Suzuki will ask themselves why the former unstoppable AEW champion is having this long street fight with someone they’ve never heard of who looks like their grandfather.
> 
> AEW is the bar band that never changes anything. If for some reason a bar band got to play with Jimi Hendrix, they’d still be doing their own solos and trying to hang with Jimi and getting in his way.
> 
> AEW is the basketball team that signs Lebron James but still starts the PF who was with them from day one.
> 
> None of these things are inherently “wrong” but it’s an attitude and presentation that will ultimately struggle to maintain a strong audience. AEW has CM Punk and Daniel Bryan, there is absolutely no reason to still be featuring the Dark Order for 10 mins of your program and having CM Punk go 15 mins with Evan fucking Bourne.


I agree with most of what you are saying, but I think if they main evented punk straight away, viewership would be the same. So they are sticking to their guns and playing the long game, which many of their hardcore fans appreciate.


----------



## Klitschko

@The Legit DMD straight up burying people in this thread lol. He came prepared lol.


----------



## 3venflow

Fast nationals info:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1449920800132251648


----------



## Klitschko

So if we give Smackdown shit for moving to a different network and their rating dropping, should we also give shit to Dynamite for this rating?


----------



## TheFiend666

God AEW marks have passed being the worst marks in the history of wrestling. Even TNA marks weren't this bad....Truly embarrassing


----------



## elo

Klitschko said:


> So if we give Smackdown shit for moving to a different network and their rating dropping, should we also give shit to Dynamite for this rating?


Who is giving Smackdown shit for this? This tribal shit is boring. Smackdown's plummet on FS1 is purely down to the channel and competition on the night, remaining in it's normal time slot for the habitual viewers means it will all bounce back to parity when it resumes on Fox.

Dynamite's plummet is purely due to incompetence from Turner and Tony Khan's refusal to demand his show remains on a Wednesday night, this will damage the show for weeks as it has the many times beforehand. Tony will have to book something big for the first show back on Wednesday for it to be above a million again and even then it will struggle as the show will not air at 8pm Wednesday on the west coast anymore. (it will be live from 5pm as a lead-in for NHL)


----------



## DammitChrist

TheFiend666 said:


> God AEW *marks* have passed being the worst marks in the history of wrestling. Even TNA marks weren't this bad....Truly embarrassing


Substitute that term with 'naysayers' and you're extremely accurate.


----------



## wwetna1

zkorejo said:


> What else even was on smackdown other than that segment that lasted all of 5 mins and one good match (Becky vs Sasha). Everything else was either mediocre at best or bad.
> 
> Do you think going extra 30 mins was justified here? By any stretch of imagination? They did extra recaps and card run downs for crown jewel. I'm pretty sure recaps and card run downs took that extra 30 mins.
> 
> Rampage had two solid matches Punk vs Sydal and mainevent was pretty good. Bryan vs Suzuki was an amazing bonus match to hype up rampage and set the mood. Short and sweet. Rampage always is 2-3 matches with one short promo or segment. For a standard Rampage it was good. Smackdown was below average for a go home show for Crown Jewel.


They did 2.5 hours last year too on FS1 its just that they did Talking Smack live right after SD. Then they replayed the block on FS2 right after it ended and MLB ran a replay. This year they just did the block and replayed the block on FS1 with FS2 airing a replay of MLB

I mean Punk vs Sydal isn't something that should have been booked even on ECW many moons ago let alone in his big return and in a commercial free match to go head to head with Becky and Sasha.


----------



## wwetna1

elo said:


> Who is giving Smackdown shit for this? This tribal shit is boring. Smackdown's plummet on FS1 is purely down to the channel and competition on the night, remaining in it's normal time slot for the habitual viewers means it will all bounce back to parity when it resumes on Fox.
> 
> Dynamite's plummet is purely due to incompetence from Turner and Tony Khan's refusal to demand his show remains on a Wednesday night, this will damage the show for weeks as it has the many times beforehand. Tony will have to book something big for the first show back on Wednesday for it to be above a million again and even then it will struggle as the show will not air at 8pm Wednesday on the west coast anymore. (it will be live from 5pm as a lead-in for NHL)


Who is he to demand anything from them? NHL is going to sell more ad revenue. He has the third highest rated wrestling show there is and keeps adding names to his roster but cant punch with Raw or SD. He damn sure can't ask for Tuesday or Thursday when the NBA runs on there. 

If he went in there demanding he doesn't get moved, he would be looked at like Heyman making stupid ass demands to TNN. What he needs to look at though and what they see is that Rampage hasn't put up good numbers. His saturday shows did not put good numbers. He would look like Dixie biting the spike hand that feed her or the destination america hand. He's not stupid. What is AEW without Warner and a TV deal? They got nothing. They can't get on nbcu or fox. They would have to kiss Viacoms ass to get on TV and they don't want to go that route. 

The fact is Tony looked silly when he said Dynamite would never be moved off TNT ... They going to TBS as a cast off and its not a one off like the dog shows, it would be the equivalent of Raw being moved to SyFy or Impact being moved to MTV2 in its heyday 

The fact is he looked silly saying that they were going to beat SD because SD's viewership of its live show and replay will bitch slap Dynamite and Rampage combined this week.


----------



## Erik.

So they're down from their normal timeslot, but up from the last time they were on Saturdays. Pretty much what everyone expected.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

DaSlacker said:


> It's in a prime time slot on network television against generally weak competition. I can almost guarantee you Friday Night SmackDown would be doing about 1.2 million at the most, on USA Network.


 CBS's shows on Friday nights get around 5 million viewers weekly

Not world beating numbers but it's a significant gap to what SD achieves on an already difficult TV(Friday has always been a tough night for TV) night.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

rich110991 said:


> FFS. People don’t know what they’re missing.


 And they don't care clearly


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Christopher Near said:


> I thought Tony said he couldn't wait to best smackdown. According to some people he was apparently joking lol. Triple h would've been ripped apart for that comment



He did say it, later went on a rant about having more money than WWE and and how he could go commercial free for longer than they can, then proceeded to go commercial free for the Punk/Sydal match open Rampage to try and top SmackDown in the half hour they were on directly against each other. 

Anyone saying he was joking is clutching at straws. He wrote a check his ass couldn't cash this week. People need to admit it, take the L and move on. Tony should do the same, it's not the end of the fucking world.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Wwe slashing tix prices to keep up


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1449922956189184001


----------



## elo

wwetna1 said:


> Who is he to demand anything from them? NHL is going to sell more ad revenue. He has the third highest rated wrestling show there is and keeps adding names to his roster but cant punch with Raw or SD. He damn sure can't ask for Tuesday or Thursday when the NBA runs on there.


Actually he could have.

He is running a LIVE event, Fox would love to move Smackdown to a non MLB night but WWE TELLS Fox what their schedule is - if Fox isn't available then it's broadcast on a secondary channel but the time slot remains the same. When the broadcaster dictates to a live event promoter when they must host their events the broadcaster becomes more important than the audience in attendance and the viewer at home - it's a relationship destined for failure. Wednesday night is the established night for Dynamite, Tony Khan should be scheduling Dynamite every Wednesday night and telling Turner/Warner to air it _somewhere_ - it's irrelevant whether that is TNT/tbs/the fucking Cartoon Network, it's Wednesday night and that's it.

The Friday night Dynamite's were a disaster and completely unnecessary, it halved the audience and took close to a month for Dynamite to re-establish itself on Wednesday after it - Tony Khan just ended up taping Dynamite a week in advance and putting on filler events as he knew the show had been pushed to a death slot and wasn't worthy of storyline progression and big matches.....this Saturday night nonsense isn't much better.


----------



## wwetna1

elo said:


> Actually he could have.
> 
> He is running a LIVE event, Fox would love to move Smackdown to a non MLB night but WWE TELLS Fox what their schedule is - if Fox isn't available then it's broadcast on a secondary channel but the time slot remains the same. When the broadcaster dictates to a live event promoter when they must host their events the broadcaster becomes more important than the audience in attendance and the viewer at home - it's a relationship destined for failure. Wednesday night is the established night for Dynamite, Tony Khan should be scheduling Dynamite every Wednesday night and telling Turner/Warner to air it _somewhere_ - it's irrelevant whether that is TNT/tbs/the fucking Cartoon Network, it's Wednesday night and that's it.
> 
> The Friday night Dynamite's were a disaster and completely unnecessary, it halved the audience and took close to a month for Dynamite to re-establish itself on Wednesday after it - Tony Khan just ended up taping Dynamite a week in advance and putting on filler events as he knew the show had been pushed to a death slot and wasn't worthy of storyline progression and big matches.....this Saturday night nonsense isn't much better.


I get what you’re saying now. I thought you meant he should tell them he’s Wednesday night on tnt only, which to me wasn’t feasible.

I mean logically he won’t be around on tbs because this isn’t yesteryear when the braves came on frequently. Though he might get tossed for March madness when they run it on tru tv, tbs, and tnt.

I would agree with you though that he needs to develop a relationship with a sister station in the family for in case things happen. SD has FS1 but Vince developed that relationship. Raw and NXT has Syfy and E as fallbacks but those are developed relationships.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

TheFiend666 said:


> God AEW marks have passed being the worst marks in the history of wrestling. Even TNA marks weren't this bad....Truly embarrassing



Screw that ...I can't read any news or post about aew without seeing cancerous ."muh tribal chief" BS ..I don't give two shits about wwe and stear away from most topics and can't get away from the stains ..aew live rent free in their heads 

No one in their right mind should've expected rampage to beat smack down even with Tony shot posting the demand on that time slot is shit and will always be shit and said already they should move slots or stop using their better talent there 

Rampage did around what they normally do so it's funny they ignore amackdown falling down that low 


And let's remind everyone just how bad their ticket sales have been while aew has moving better in their back yard


----------



## zkorejo

RapShepard said:


> Balor vs Zayn
> 
> Usos vs Street Profits
> 
> Becky vs Sasha
> 
> Were all fantastic TV matches
> 
> Then you got good story furthering segments with Edge's promo, Rollins promo, and the ending segment.
> 
> Also set up Shayna coming over to SmackDown


Balor vs Zayn - mediocre
Usos vs Street Profits - seen it 4 times now I think. 
Becky vs Sasha - Good

Shayna - nobody cares anymore. She has done nothing of note. Beating Nia doesn't give her any credibility in my books. Has been the one taking all pinfalls for majority of the time. 

Edge and Rollins, promos they did were good but the feud is overdone at this point. Genuinely not interested. For me, It's at the same point as MJF vs Jericho had gotten to after Stadium Stampede. I'm at "just end it and move on already" for it. 

Overall it was Okay at best show IMO. I was hoping for more emphasis on Reigns/Lesnar but it was way too short.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Here are the facts wwe raitings have fallen and never recovered ..ironically that big slump at 2015 is the head of the table winning the rumble and chasing away fans that never came back..now I expect fully for dynamite to have crap numbers too this week and next from being on sat but they have done nothing but improve year after year while wwe keeps slumping


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Klitschko said:


> So if we give Smackdown shit for moving to a different network and their rating dropping, should we also give shit to Dynamite for this rating?


*The way Smackdown is about to cook BOTH AEW shows after putting their best talents in THE DREADED DEATH SLOT 😱😱😱😱😱 on a shitty channel is going to be so embarrassing after all the shit that was, and is STILL being talked.*


----------



## rbl85

It's the "AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread Part IV" not the "AEW vs WWE ratings, etc..."

People should not even mention WWE on this topic.

I don't know what the mods are doing but talking about smackdown, RAW or even NXT have nothing to do with this topic.

Sincerely this topic is now a complete shit show....


----------



## rich110991

The Legit DMD said:


> *The way Smackdown is about to cook BOTH AEW shows after putting their best talents in THE DREADED DEATH SLOT 😱😱😱😱😱 on a shitty channel is going to be so embarrassing after all the shit that was, and is STILL being talked.*


Dude AEW is better, deal with it 😂


----------



## RapShepard

Botchy SinCara said:


> *Screw that ...I can't read any news or post about aew without seeing cancerous ."muh tribal chief" BS ..I don't give two shits about wwe and stear away from most topics and can't get away from the stains ..aew live rent free in their heads *


Ironic given below is you in the WWE section this week lol




Botchy SinCara said:


> Ironically Roman is just there because he failed at the NFL and related to the rock
> 
> Jinder got a push to capitalize on the Indian market and nothing more
> 
> And Vince always had a soft spot for Drew
> 
> Braun of all people was a legit beast. Likable and bigger than life and buried constantly. It's not about who works harder
> 
> 
> Plenty of top tier guys who were over and hard workers weren't body builders






Botchy SinCara said:


> Hmmmm it's like if you have all your eggs in one basket things can go to shit real fast
> 
> 
> The tribal chief stuff is already losing its steam ..no way to they can have Roman hold the title until 2023






Botchy SinCara said:


> Rock isn't gonna come back dude is better off in Hollywood and no reason to risk your career for Roman of all people






Botchy SinCara said:


> Raitings have takned since Roman win the ruble and got the rock booed and they never came back ...Roman is where he is because of who he is related to and due to the fact Vince can do what every he wants since he's loaded with blood and network money






Botchy SinCara said:


> "RECORD PROFITS !!!!"
> 
> WWE living off that blood money and TV deals


----------



## Dr. Middy

Klitschko said:


> So if we give Smackdown shit for moving to a different network and their rating dropping, should we also give shit to Dynamite for this rating?


They equally should get the benefit of the doubt since both were on less than ideal days and had specific scenarios going against them. Dynamite on a Saturday Night hurts it obviously, and Smackdown on FS1 also hurt it a ton due to it being a much smaller channel.

Comparing them in any other matter makes zero sense to me because they are on different days in differently viewed channels.



TheFiend666 said:


> God AEW marks have passed being the worst marks in the history of wrestling. Even TNA marks weren't this bad....Truly embarrassing


I've come to the conclusion that just all the WWE/AEW marks arguing is just utter and neverending shit. I legit really like Smackdown and mostly love AEW, I'm entertained by both shows so I don't really have a horse in this fight, so most of the time I'm reading stuff in here and other threads and laughing. It's feels like the marks for either sides need to justify their enjoyment of the show they prefer by arguing down anybody in their path, instead of just focusing on enjoying their show, or you get the ones who I can't tell if they enjoy either show at all yet talk about it constantly. 

That being said, we can safely say nobody prefers Raw.


----------



## rbl85

The only valid comparison should be between this week Dynamite and the past Dynamites on saturday.

And since you guys seems to touch yourself talking about SDL then SD should only compare itself with previous FS1 shows.


----------



## 3venflow

rbl85 said:


> It's the "AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread Part IV" not the "AEW vs WWE ratings, etc..."
> 
> People should not even mention WWE on this topic.


Agreed to some extent, but polite comparisons can be interesting like the Wednesday Night Wars and AEW gradually closing the gap on the long-time market leader. It's just that a few people make it overly tribal due to their agendas and it might be time for the mods to step in.

Some people need to post in the WWE section instead of the low key trolling here. Like what you like, but don't subject people day in, day out to your venom. The thread hasn't been this bad since The Wood was here with his pathological trolling. If I had a dollar for every 'if the WWE did this!!!!11!!!', I'd be able to buy WF.  

Anyway, I'd guess a 5% rise for Saturday Night Dynamite final rating which would put it around 691k. As always, the 18-49 will be the most relevant number but I don't think that's available yet.

Last time they were on Saturday night was the conclusion of that grim period on Fridays and Saturdays when Dynamite was probably the worst it has ever been for a number of weeks. That show did 649k / 0.21 before they jumped back up to 883k / 0.35 back on Wednesdays the following week.

*May 28 Episode:* 526,000 viewers with a 0.20 rating in the 18-49 demographic (Friday Night Dynamite episode)
*June 4 Episode:* 462,000 viewers with a 0.19 rating in the 18-49 demographic (Friday Night Dynamite episode)
*June 11 Episode:* 487,000 viewers with a 0.19 rating in the 18-49 demographic (Friday Night Dynamite episode)
*June 18 Episode:* 552,000 viewers with a 0.20 rating in the 18-49 demographic (Friday Night Dynamite episode)
*June 26 Episode:* 649,000 viewers with a 0.21 rating in the 18-49 demographic (Saturday Night Dynamite episode)
*June 30 Episode:* 883,000 viewers with a 0.35 rating in the 18-49 demographic (Return to normal Wednesday timeslot)


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

rich110991 said:


> Dude AEW is better, deal with it 😂


*Good morning Rich. Inquiring minds would like to know how you're dealing with this catastrophic failure after telling the world that Rampage would beat Smackdown. *


RapShepard said:


> Ironic given below is you in the WWE section this week lol


----------



## rich110991

The Legit DMD said:


> *Good morning Rich. Inquiring minds would like to know how you're dealing with this catastrophic failure after telling the world that Rampage would beat Smackdown. *


I didn’t tell the world anything? 😂

And in terms of quality they absolutely thrashed the 30 year old company, and didn’t do too badly in the ratings in comparison! I’m sure they’re very pleased with how things are going. WWE slashing their ticket prices to keep up with the “piss ant, not competition” company 😂 Jog on.


----------



## Sad Panda

Realistically neither company looks great coming out of this. WWE fans aren’t looking to find the product if not on Fox. AEW didn’t see a bump at all with all this hype, the buy in etc.

There are no winners here, other than the viewers who were treated to some good wrestling TV. I’ll take it.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*This you?*



rich110991 said:


> All truth from the legend that is TK 😂





rich110991 said:


> Which just means Smackdown fans will have to change the channel. Unless of course people just watch because it’s on Fox?





rich110991 said:


> It also proves IMO that the 2m+ who watch Smackdown normally, couldn’t be bothered to look for it this week. So they just watch out of habit because it’s on Fox 🤷‍♂️


*So without even acknowledging that the fast nationals numbers are always lower, AEW just LAWST by several hundred thousand viewers on a channel that in your own words the fan base wasn't willing to watch. What are your thoughts on all of your and Tony Khan's trash talk backfiring in hilarious fashion?*


----------



## RapShepard




----------



## rich110991

The Legit DMD said:


> *This you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So without even acknowledging that the fast nationals numbers are always lower, AEW just LAWST by several hundred thousand viewers on a channel that in your own words the fan base wasn't willing to watch. What are your thoughts on all of your and Tony Khan's trash talk backfiring in hilarious fashion?*


My thoughts are AEW is better than WWE and WWE is aimed at children.


----------



## fabi1982

rbl85 said:


> The only valid comparison should be between this week Dynamite and the past Dynamites on saturday.
> 
> And since you guys seems to touch yourself talking about SDL then SD should only compare itself with previous FS1 shows.


You seem angry?? Maybe release some anger by touching yourself?


----------



## Klitschko

rich110991 said:


> My thoughts are AEW is better than WWE and WWE is aimed at children.


Yes, but any thoughts on your words coming back at you?


----------



## Dr. Middy

rbl85 said:


> The only valid comparison should be between this week Dynamite and the past Dynamites on saturday.
> 
> And since you guys seems to touch yourself talking about SDL then SD should only compare itself with previous FS1 shows.


Bro I jerk off to Roman Reigns legit.

Don't tell me you don't get excited watching him slowly saunter to the ring.


----------



## rbl85

fabi1982 said:


> You seem angry?? Maybe release some anger by touching yourself?


Not angry, i'm tired that this topic who should only be about AEW became a AEW vs WWE topic.


----------



## La Parka

rbl85 said:


> Not angry, i'm tired that this topic who should only be about AEW became a AEW vs WWE topic.


AEW is an anti wwe brand.

One of their biggest names has a nickname based around beating nxt in the demo.

Not talking about WWE in the aew forum would be like not talking about the meat industry on a peta forum.


----------



## rich110991

Klitschko said:


> Yes, but any thoughts on your words coming back at you?


I don’t see how any of them did 😂


----------



## Klitschko

rich110991 said:


> It also proves IMO that the 2m+ who watch Smackdown normally, couldn’t be bothered to look for it this week. So they just watch out of habit because it’s on Fox 🤷‍♂️





rich110991 said:


> I don’t see how any of them did 😂


It also proves IMO that the 1m+ who watch Dynamite normally, couldn't be bothered to look for it ok another day this week on the same channel. So they just watch out if habit because it's on a Wednesday. 

I like AEW and hope they crush WWE, but the way some of you talk trash and later can't admit when you're wrong is fucking hilarious.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Even though WWE started the shit by adding a half hour to SD to go into Rampage and Tony was responding... Tony still ran his mouth (whether trolling or not). So it makes sense the WWE marks would laugh about SD beating AEW this weekend. It's all fair game. It'll subside by next week anyway.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

rich110991 said:


> Dude AEW is better, deal with it 😂


It might be better but if fewer people watch it it's certainly less popular.

I mean it's almost as if quality and popularity aren't the same thing.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Dr. Middy said:


> Bro I jerk off to Roman Reigns legit.
> 
> Don't tell me you don't get excited watching him slowly saunter to the ring.


*That entrance is longer than all the low card women's matches combined for a reason. They've got to give you time to finish!*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Man, i am salivating for the amount of back and forth that overlapping half hour (which is what its all really about) is going to do


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Man, i am salivating for the amount of back and forth that overlapping half hour (which is what its all really about) is going to do


*Hopefully our pal Brandon Thurston has those exact numbers.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Hopefully our pal Brandon Thurston has those exact numbers.*


i want to have a nice minute by minute

just imagine the arguments!


----------



## rich110991

Klitschko said:


> It also proves IMO that the 1m+ who watch Dynamite normally, couldn't be bothered to look for it ok another day this week on the same channel. So they just watch out if habit because it's on a Wednesday.
> 
> I like AEW and hope they crush WWE, but the way some of you talk trash and later can't admit when you're wrong is fucking hilarious.


What was I wrong about? I didn’t say AEW would beat Smackdown in the ratings.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *This you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So without even acknowledging that the fast nationals numbers are always lower, AEW just LAWST by several hundred thousand viewers on a channel that in your own words the fan base wasn't willing to watch. What are your thoughts on all of your and Tony Khan's trash talk backfiring in hilarious fashion?*


You're so obsessed with "exposing HYPOCRISY" and about being "right all the time with your twisted receipts" that it's reached the point that we can't even have ourselves a friendly discussion about the ratings without you derailing this topic in the most toxic/disrespectful way possible. You should listen to how you sound when you post.



Klitschko said:


> It also proves IMO that the 1m+ who watch Dynamite normally, couldn't be bothered to look for it ok another day this week on the same channel. So they just watch out if habit because it's on a Wednesday.
> 
> *I like AEW and hope they crush WWE, but the way some of you talk trash and later can't admit when you're wrong is fucking hilarious.*


Dude, when was the LAST time you've seen the dude I quoted admit that he's wrong on here?

I can't even think of 5 examples this year alone. 

Hell, I just admitted being wrong about how double DQs and double count-outs work for the G1 tournament in NJPW like 20 minutes ago. 

I was also wrong about who's entering the Eliminator tournament for the AEW World championship bracket.


----------



## CM Buck

DammitChrist said:


> You're so obsessed with "exposing HYPOCRISY" and about being "right all the time with your twisted receipts" that it's reached the point that we can't even have ourselves a friendly discussion about the ratings without you derailing this topic in the most toxic/disrespectful way possible. You should listen to how you sound when you post.


Glass houses man, I've seen your comments in here and the wwe section you can be pretty hostile yourself


----------



## DammitChrist

Firefromthegods said:


> Glass houses man, I've seen your comments in here and the wwe section you can be pretty hostile yourself


Yes, I admit that I do get overly passionate or a bit heated.

At least I'm capable of saying that myself.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Firefromthegods said:


> Glass houses man, I've seen your comments in here and the wwe section you can be pretty hostile yourself


*Exbibit A of why I don't even have to say anything. *


----------



## the_hound

DammitChrist said:


> Yes, I admit that I do get overly passionate or a bit heated.
> 
> *At least I'm capable of saying that myself.*


lets face it, you're only admitting to it now because you got called out for it


----------



## rbl85

the_hound said:


> lets face it, you're only admitting to it now because you got called out for it


I know someone else who can't admit a thing even when he get called for it.....


----------



## the_hound

rbl85 said:


> I know someone else who can't admit a thing even when he get called for it.....


and what's that? that i can't stomach aew? i think it's the most over hyped, overrated piece of shit i've ever had the misfortune of watching, the fans are the most obnoxious, self cert arse holes on social media, going from twitter, to reddit to the actual wrestling forums, the these so called wrestling journalists so far up tonys ass is quite frankly unreal.

so yeah i've never shy ed away from the fact from day one on how much i hate the dub.


----------



## rbl85

the_hound said:


> and what's that? that i can't stomach aew? i think it's the most over hyped, overrated piece of shit i've ever had the misfortune of watching, the fans are the most obnoxious, self cert arse holes on social media, going from twitter, to reddit to the actual wrestling forums, the these so called wrestling journalists so far up tonys ass is quite frankly unreal.
> 
> so yeah i've never shy ed away from the fact from day one on how much i hate the dub.


I wasn't talking about you


----------



## fabi1982

rbl85 said:


> Not angry, i'm tired that this topic who should only be about AEW became a AEW vs WWE topic.


But why go with the „touch yourself“ remark when you are not angry that the tribal chief is in everyones head? Even in yours.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

the_hound said:


> and what's that? that i can't stomach aew? i think it's the most over hyped, overrated piece of shit i've ever had the misfortune of watching, the fans are the most obnoxious, self cert arse holes on social media, going from twitter, to reddit to the actual wrestling forums, the these so called wrestling journalists so far up tonys ass is quite frankly unreal.
> 
> so yeah i've never shy ed away from the fact from day one on how much i hate the dub.


no need to hold back, tell us how you really feel


----------



## fabi1982

DammitChrist said:


> Yes, I admit that I do get overly passionate or a bit heated.
> 
> At least I'm capable of saying that myself.


Maybe you should say a lot more stuff just to yourself?!


----------



## DammitChrist

fabi1982 said:


> Maybe you should say a lot more stuff just to yourself?!


That makes no sense, dude.



fabi1982 said:


> Like you most of the time 👍


Well, thank you for the rude remark.


----------



## fabi1982

DammitChrist said:


> That makes no sense, dude.


Like you most of the time 👍


----------



## Stevieg786

Where the breakdown ratings at


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Stevieg786 said:


> Where the breakdown ratings at


It comes around 4(EST)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Garty

the_hound said:


> and what's that? that i can't stomach aew? i think it's the most over hyped, overrated piece of shit i've ever had the misfortune of watching, the fans are the most obnoxious, self cert arse holes on social media, going from twitter, to reddit to the actual wrestling forums, the these so called wrestling journalists so far up tonys ass is quite frankly unreal.
> 
> so yeah i've never shy ed away from the fact from day one on how much i hate the dub.


So, you've watched it from day one, hated it, continued to watch it for two years, complain about it here on a weekly basis... or have you stopped watching it and are only here to complain on a weekly basis, knowing nothing that's going on with the product other than what you read or hear? That's called a troll post, which I read far too often here in this section.

As I've said time after time, going back to my _'this is going to get me banned days'_... we get it, you (or generally speaking for all that) don't like AEW, so you don't have to keep reminding us every few days. We've all heard you a hundred times prior. What is the fascination with AEW that if you don't like it, that you feel some need to tell those of us who do like it how much you think it sucks? What kind of dumbass does that?! Seriously?! Don't like it? Then clearly, you shouldn't be still watching, right? And if you're not watching it, then you have nothing to complain about. See how simple that solution is? Take my advice, try it. Shut-up.

This is always such a stupid take and opinion. It's been two years... move on.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Garty said:


> So, you've watched it from day one, hated it, continued to watch it for two years, complain about it here on a weekly basis... or have you stopped watching it and are only here to complain on a weekly basis, knowing nothing that's going on with the product other than what you read or hear? That's called a troll post, which I read far too often here in this section.
> 
> As I've said time after time, going back to my _'this is going to get me banned days'_... we get it, you (or generally speaking for all that) don't like AEW, so you don't have to keep reminding us every few days. We've all heard you a hundred times prior. What is the fascination with AEW that if you don't like it, that you feel some need to tell those of us who do like it how much you think it sucks? What kind of dumbass does that?! Seriously?! Don't like it? Then clearly, you shouldn't be still watching, right? And if you're not watching it, then you have nothing to complain about. See how simple that solution is? Take my advice, try it. Shut-up.
> 
> This is always such a stupid take and opinion. It's been two years... move on.


he’s the aunt that goes to a kids birthday party and proceeds to tell everybody why she’s vegan and why that cake made from dairy is bad

every year

same sort of person


----------



## the_hound

LifeInCattleClass said:


> no need to hold back, tell us how you really feel


wwe is the biggest pile of wank and has been since 2006 / 2007, dunn is a cancer, the booking is atrocious, creative is horrendous, the constant over producing is quite frankly sickening, the LED shit is just overkill, using the same set designs for 2 different shows is just stupid, the commentary on raw is quite frankly brutal and boring and as for the god awful intro theme for raw is horrible, WTF happened to the rock style like beautiful people, thorn in your eye, papa roach, nickle fucking back for christ sake instead we have that fucking shit that gets played every monday night.

i gave you my reason why i hate the dub and now i give you a reason why i hate the fed


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

the_hound said:


> wwe is the biggest pile of wank and has been since 2006 / 2007, dunn is a cancer, the booking is atrocious, creative is horrendous, the constant over producing is quite frankly sickening, the LED shit is just overkill, using the same set designs for 2 different shows is just stupid, the commentary on raw is quite frankly brutal and boring and as for the god awful intro theme for raw is horrible, WTF happened to the rock style like beautiful people, thorn in your eye, papa roach, nickle fucking back for christ sake instead we have that fucking shit that gets played every monday night.
> 
> i gave you my reason why i hate the dub and now i give you a reason why i hate the fed


bruh it's been 20 years since the Attitude era. Maybe just move on or stick to watching classic wrestling. I could understand this post in 2009 or something but it's 2021 lmao.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

the_hound said:


> wwe is the biggest pile of wank and has been since 2006 / 2007, dunn is a cancer, the booking is atrocious, creative is horrendous, the constant over producing is quite frankly sickening, the LED shit is just overkill, using the same set designs for 2 different shows is just stupid, the commentary on raw is quite frankly brutal and boring and as for the god awful intro theme for raw is horrible, WTF happened to the rock style like beautiful people, thorn in your eye, papa roach, nickle fucking back for christ sake instead we have that fucking shit that gets played every monday night.
> 
> i gave you my reason why i hate the dub and now i give you a reason why i hate the fed


lol - now try and only give positives of each

just for funsies


----------



## .christopher.

GNKenny said:


> bruh it's been 20 years since the Attitude era. Maybe just move on or stick to watching classic wrestling. I could understand this post in 2009 or something but it's 2021 lmao.


2006/2007 wasn't the attitude era


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

So weird 

not a competition guyzzz


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450184846190415872


----------



## Pentagon Senior

LifeInCattleClass said:


> So weird
> 
> not a competition guyzzz
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450184846190415872


At least they can win next week

The true war - Rampage v Talking Smack 😈


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pentagon Senior said:


> At least they can win next week
> 
> The true war - Rampage v Talking Smack 😈


TK better talk some smack back - after he takes a couple drags off the smack pipe of course

will get the natives in a tizzy


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

.christopher. said:


> 2006/2007 wasn't the attitude era


Obviously. 

Still a ludicrous amount of time to keep watching something you apparently find little enjoyment in. Even TNA managed to run me off after a while despite being a fan since 2004.


----------



## DaSlacker

That might work in AEW's favour and push TNT to move it to a better night and timeslot.


----------



## Prized Fighter

LifeInCattleClass said:


> So weird
> 
> not a competition guyzzz
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450184846190415872


Weird how that works. I was told that SD got the extra half hour to make up for being on FS1 and to boost their ratings, but not because they wanted to hurt AEW. Talking Smack must just be a coincidence.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Prized Fighter said:


> Weird how that works. I was told that SD got the extra half hour to make up for being on FS1 and to boost their ratings, but not because they wanted to hurt AEW. Talking Smack must just be a coincidence.


don’t worry - soon enough when you’ll have people telling you about the 2 or 3 times talking smack was in this spot in the last 3 years - which’ll mean wwe always laid claim to it


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> So weird
> 
> not a competition guyzzz
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450184846190415872


*Y'all bet not let Tony Khan lose to Kayla Braxton.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Y'all bet not let Tony Khan lose to Kayla Braxton.*


lol - i am in south africa watching on fite

i have no control over it

i just hope they never put the good Dr Baker in that spot and she loses - ooooh, the e drones will be on you like white on rice


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol - i am in south africa watching on fite
> 
> i have no control over it
> 
> i just hope they never put the good Dr Baker in that spot and she loses - ooooh, the e drones will be on you like white on rice


*Me on Friday







*


----------



## 3venflow

Ratings slow today but Torch has the Rampage/Smackdown ones. Looks like they may be tied in the Nielsen rankings?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450195273246990338


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Me on Friday
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


lollll - perfect!


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

3venflow said:


> Ratings slow today but Torch has the Rampage/Smackdown ones. Looks like they may be tied in the Nielsen rankings?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450195273246990338


This is the exact result that will have the funniest reactions. Both sides "won" in their minds.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Ratings slow today but Torch has the Rampage/Smackdown ones. Looks like they may be tied in the Nielsen rankings?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450195273246990338


whakakakakaaaaaaaaa


----------



## RapShepard

Prized Fighter said:


> Weird how that works. I was told that SD got the extra half hour to make up for being on FS1 and to boost their ratings, but not because they wanted to hurt AEW. Talking Smack must just be a coincidence.


As @The Legit DMD has been shown, when SmackDown airs on FS1 they always get extra WWE content in the 10pm block this predates AEW Rampage









The Rock, Paul Heyman And More Announced For Tonight's WWE Talking Smack - Wrestling Inc.


Former WWE Champion The Rock has been announced for tonight’s special edition of WWE Talking Smack on FS1. As we’ve noted, Talking Smack will air on FS1 tonight at 10pm ET tonight, right after SmackDown on FS1 goes off the air. The SmackDown replay is then scheduled for 11pm. SmackDown is airing...




www.wrestlinginc.com





"Former WWE Champion The Rock has been announced for tonight’s special edition of WWE Talking Smack on FS1.

As we’ve noted, Talking Smack will air on FS1 tonight at 10pm ET tonight, right after SmackDown on FS1 goes off the air. The SmackDown replay is then scheduled for 11pm. SmackDown is airing on FS1 tonight due to college football coverage on FOX."










Talking Smack airing on FS1 after WWE SmackDown this week


A change has been announced for tonight's SmackDown post-show on FS1. A one-hour edition of Talking Smack will air on FS1 at 10 p.m. Eastern time after




www.f4wonline.com





"A change has been announced for tonight's SmackDown post-show on FS1.

A one-hour edition of Talking Smack will air on FS1 at 10 p.m. Eastern time after SmackDown tonight. It originally had been announced that WWE Backstage would be making a one-night return as tonight's SmackDown post-show."


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

LifeInCattleClass said:


> don’t worry - soon enough when you’ll have people telling you about the 2 or 3 times talking smack was in this spot in the last 3 years - which’ll mean wwe always laid claim to it





RapShepard said:


> As @The Legit DMD has been shown, when SmackDown airs on FS1 they always get extra WWE content in the 10pm block this predates AEW Rampage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Rock, Paul Heyman And More Announced For Tonight's WWE Talking Smack - Wrestling Inc.
> 
> 
> Former WWE Champion The Rock has been announced for tonight’s special edition of WWE Talking Smack on FS1. As we’ve noted, Talking Smack will air on FS1 tonight at 10pm ET tonight, right after SmackDown on FS1 goes off the air. The SmackDown replay is then scheduled for 11pm. SmackDown is airing...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlinginc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Former WWE Champion The Rock has been announced for tonight’s special edition of WWE Talking Smack on FS1.
> 
> As we’ve noted, Talking Smack will air on FS1 tonight at 10pm ET tonight, right after SmackDown on FS1 goes off the air. The SmackDown replay is then scheduled for 11pm. SmackDown is airing on FS1 tonight due to college football coverage on FOX."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Talking Smack airing on FS1 after WWE SmackDown this week
> 
> 
> A change has been announced for tonight's SmackDown post-show on FS1. A one-hour edition of Talking Smack will air on FS1 at 10 p.m. Eastern time after
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.f4wonline.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "A change has been announced for tonight's SmackDown post-show on FS1.
> 
> A one-hour edition of Talking Smack will air on FS1 at 10 p.m. Eastern time after SmackDown tonight. It originally had been announced that WWE Backstage would be making a one-night return as tonight's SmackDown post-show."


i can set my watch by you


----------



## 3venflow

Woof. TK basically confirms the stories that WWE has been leaking fast nationals.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450196300667006988


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Woof. TK basically confirms the stories that WWE has been leaking fast nationals.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450196300667006988


Talking Smack Tony


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i can set my watch by you


I mean can't claim it's weird when there's precedence can you


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> I mean can't claim it's weird when there's precedence can you


every week is precedence / every now and again in a blue moon is not

we’ll see how this shakes out - my money is on this becoming a ‘feature’ every week


----------



## 3venflow

Friday rankings. Doubt anyone expected them to be 3 and 4 after the P2+ leaks.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Friday rankings. Doubt anyone expected them to be 3 and 4 after the P2+ leaks.
> 
> View attachment 110390


lol - AEW is gonna win that overlapping half hour aren’t they


----------



## 3venflow

Smackdown won by a mere 1k in the 18-49 it would appear, but the way the ratings work both rounded to 0.24.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> every week is precedence / every now and again in a blue moon is not
> 
> we’ll see how this shakes out - my money is on this becoming a ‘feature’ every week


If every time I visit you in South Africa we drink beer and beat up midgets, then that's precedence for me to expect to drink beer and beat up midgets the next visit. 

As far as talking smack being normal on FS1 I could see it. But I could also see NBC whining about how they totally need the talk show nobody watches exclusive to Peacock because "petty" lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

do it you guyz


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> *If every time I visit you in South Africa we drink beer and beat up midgets, *then that's precedence for me to expect to drink beer and beat up midgets the next visit.
> 
> As far as talking smack being normal on FS1 I could see it. But I could also see NBC whining about how they totally need the talk show nobody watches exclusive to Peacock because "petty" lol


no lie… sounds like a good time!

come on over


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450197659495637002


----------



## RapShepard

* Tracking Ratings With Rap Shepard*

Let's see the Rampage numbers without Punk

Rampage #1- 740k .31 demo

Dynamite 8/18- 975k .35 demo

Rampage #2 with Punk- 1.129 million .53 demo

Dynamite 8/25 with Punk- 1.172 million .48 demo

Rampage #3 no Punk- 722k .34 demo

Dynamite 9/1 - 1.047 .37 demo

Rampage #4 with Punk- 696k .30 demo

Dynamite 9/8 with Punk, Bryan, and Cole- 1.31 million .53 demo

Rampage #5 No Punk, Bryan, or Cole- 670k .27 demo

Dynamite 9/15 with Punk, Cole, and Bryan- 1.175 million .44 demo

Rampage #6 no Punk, Cole, or Bryan - 642k .28 demo

Dynamite 9/22 Bryan vs Omega- 1.273 million .48 demo

Rampage #7 Punk vs Hobbs- 640k .28 demo

Dynamite 9/30 with Punk, Bryan, and Cole- 1.152 million .45 demo

Rampage #8 Bryan vs Nick Jackson- 622k .25 demo 

Dynamite 10/6 The Super Elite vs Bryan's ragtag group of merry men- 1.05 million .37 demo 

Rampage 9- 502k .17 demo

Rampage 10 Punk vs Evan Sydal- 578k .24 demo


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> no lie… sounds like a good time!
> 
> come on over


I mean who doesn't love a good ol midget tossing lol


----------



## 3venflow

Can't quite believe a pretty standard AEW Rampage pretty much tied a PPV level Smackdown in the demographic that matters. Admittedly Smackdown was moved to a smaller channel, but had the advantage of being aired in primetime compared to AEW's 10pm.

Good result for A E Dub I'd say, maybe they should make the pre-shows a common thing.

Still waiting for Saturday's ratings, Nielsen are slow today.


----------



## Mr316

AEW tied Smackdown with a show that started at 10pm ET. That’s very good.


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450197659495637002


Got to give him credit though, part of promoting is spin the L's. The core fan base will be willing to forget that Tony said they'd win and forget the channel switch. They'll totally be for taking the demo tie and touting how it's crazy they're even tying since SmackDown has been on since 99


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Main take away is that smackdown edged out aews b show with Brock and Roman..and tied in the key demo

Rampage numbers are up while smackdown took a huge nose dive 

Smackdown really benefits from normally being on free tv


----------



## ThunderNitro

LifeInCattleClass said:


> no lie… sounds like a good time!
> 
> come on over


As long as there are no more alcohol bans.


----------



## rbl85

I knew that with WWE viewers being older the demo was going to be pretty close


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Bunny v Ruby > Brock / Reigns confirmed


----------



## RapShepard

Sidenote whatever the fuck is going on, on Love after Lockup WWE and AEW need to steal because clearly the bitches love it. Maybe Anna Jay needs to try and heal Malakai Black's heart


----------



## Botchy SinCara

RapShepard said:


> Sidenote whatever the fuck is going on, on Love after Lockup WWE and AEW need to steal because clearly the bitches love it. Maybe Anna Jay needs to try and heal Malakai Black's heart



Saw it playing at work in the break room ...women like the whole fix them up type of guy and thats what it mostly shows


----------



## RapShepard

Botchy SinCara said:


> Saw it playing at work in the break room ...women like the while fix them up type of guy and that what it mostly shows


It's just amazing it has had more than one season lol


----------



## Sad Panda

So is Fox overpaying for WWE or TNT underpaying for AEW?

I for one don’t care about all this very much but Smackdown being moved to a comparable channel (meaning not on free tv) Smackdown ties Rampage in the 18-49 demo even with Smackdown throwing out an A level type show is interesting I think.

Also 8-10 is certainly more preferable than 10-11.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

RapShepard said:


> I mean who doesn't love a good ol *midget tossing* lol


That means something altogether different in the UK fyi 😳


----------



## RapShepard

Pentagon Senior said:


> That means something altogether different in the UK fyi


Lol what does it mean


----------



## RapShepard

Sad Panda said:


> So is Fox overpaying for WWE or TNT underpaying for AEW?
> 
> I for one don’t care about all this very much but Smackdown being moved to a comparable channel (meaning not on free tv) Smackdown ties Rampage in the 18-49 demo even with Smackdown throwing out an A level type show is interesting I think.
> 
> Also 8-10 is certainly more preferable than 10-11.


Of the most watched channels in 2020

Fox ranked 4

TNT ranked 18

USA ranked 20

FS1 ranked 67









Year in Review: Most-Watched Television Networks — Ranking 2020’s Winners and Losers


Yes, linear TV still exists, and it’s still watched by millions of viewers. But 2020 was another tipping point for traditional television, and it’s not just because of the pandemic. Wha…




variety.com


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450202871006367745

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450202871006367745
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


and a friendly reminder that smackdown had no commercials and AEW had 1 spot

plus ended with Ruby v Bunny and Smackdown ended with Brock / Reigns

lol - i’m gonna be more unbearable than ever


----------



## Pentagon Senior

RapShepard said:


> Lol what does it mean


_Toss off_

"British, informal + impolite : to touch or rub one's own sexual organs for sexual pleasure : to masturbate." 

It's likely just my warped mind but I read it as you giving the midgets a good time 😅


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Tony Khan is getting cooked*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450200068804341762


----------



## ThunderNitro

I wonder who Vince will fire after that SD rating!


----------



## Prized Fighter

RapShepard said:


> Sidenote whatever the fuck is going on, on Love after Lockup WWE and AEW need to steal because clearly the bitches love it. Maybe Anna Jay needs to try and heal Malakai Black's heart


Didn't Smackdown have a big Sasha vs Becky match? I assume most women aren't going to spend the time to find FS1, but that is a bit a surprisingly low female demo.


----------



## Sad Panda

RapShepard said:


> Of the most watched channels in 2020
> 
> Fox ranked 4
> 
> TNT ranked 18
> 
> USA ranked 20
> 
> FS1 ranked 67
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Year in Review: Most-Watched Television Networks — Ranking 2020’s Winners and Losers
> 
> 
> Yes, linear TV still exists, and it’s still watched by millions of viewers. But 2020 was another tipping point for traditional television, and it’s not just because of the pandemic. Wha…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> variety.com


A lot more distance between TNT and FS1 than I would’ve initially assumed!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Tony Khan is getting cooked*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450200068804341762


smackdown started at 8

lets wait for that head to head competition for the overlapping half hour before the cooking starts


----------



## Sad Panda

The Legit DMD said:


> *Tony Khan is getting cooked*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450200068804341762


I’m sure Tony cares quite a bit


----------



## 3venflow

Prized Fighter said:


> Didn't Smackdown have a big Sasha vs Becky match? I assume most women aren't going to spend the time to find FS1, but that is a bit a surprisingly low female demo.


The last two times they were on FS1 they did 0.25 / 881k and 0.30 / 1.03m. So even with a PPV level card and the Lesnar/Roman signing, they dropped on both fronts while Rampage was up from last week.


----------



## rbl85

Prized Fighter said:


> Didn't Smackdown have a big Sasha vs Becky match? I assume most women aren't going to spend the time to find FS1, but that is a bit a surprisingly low female demo.


Segments or matches that do really well with the women demo are often not the women matches/segments


----------



## Whoanma

Sad Panda said:


> I’m sure Tony cares quite a bit


----------



## Prized Fighter

Sad Panda said:


> A lot more distance between TNT and FS1 than I would’ve initially assumed!


TNT: 89 million homes
FS1: 83 million homes

FS1 non-live sports content is pretty bad and doesn't bring in as many viewers as TNT shows.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Sad Panda said:


> I’m sure Tony cares quite a bit












..beat me to the gif


----------



## RapShepard

Sad Panda said:


> A lot more distance between TNT and FS1 than I would’ve initially assumed!


They just don't have the rights to sports that really matter like ESPN does to be a legit big time channel. ESPN ranked 8 in overall viewers. 

For channels by demo 18-49

Fox #1

ESPN 5

TNT 8

USA 14

FS1 didn't make the top 50


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> The last two times they were on FS1 they did 0.25 / 881k and 0.30 / 1.03m. So even with a PPV level card and the Lesnar/Roman signing, they dropped on both fronts while Rampage was up from last week.


What was PPV level about this card? Folk certainly weren't saying it was PPV worthy before it aired? I mean if that's PPV worthy Rampage had a buy in, Punk wrestling and a big crossover match.


----------



## Prized Fighter

rbl85 said:


> Segments or matches that do really well with the women demo are often not the women matches/segments


Is that for WWE or are you referring to wrestling as a whole? Wrestling is definitely skewed male, but it seems like a low number.


----------



## 3venflow

Prized Fighter said:


> TNT: 89 million homes
> FS1: 83 million homes
> 
> FS1 non-live sports content is pretty bad and doesn't bring in as many viewers as TNT shows.


How many homes are the free-to-air networks like FOX on? I doubt AEW could get on network TV but it'd surely grow their TV fanbase if they did.


----------



## ProjectGargano

The Legit DMD said:


> *Tony Khan is getting cooked*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450200068804341762


So, he is right, he is celebrating that AEW B show (10 pm) tied WWE main show (8pm) in Demo and probably won the Demo of that half hour colision.


----------



## 3venflow

RapShepard said:


> What was PPV level about this card? Folk certainly weren't saying it was PPV worthy before it aired? I mean if that's PPV worthy Rampage had a buy in, Punk wrestling and a big crossover match.


I've been hearing from some of the WWE faithful that Sasha vs. Becky is a Wrestlemania main event level match and Usos vs. Street Profits is also PPV level.


----------



## ThunderNitro

Whatever happened to the argument that if something is good people will watch it on whichever network it is on? Years ago people on this forum used to argue that TNA wasn't as successful as it could have been because they were on Spike TV and Spike wasn't in as many homes as the USA Network, but couldn't recall that when the WWE was on Spike Raw had no problems attracting a large audience that was willing to watch them on a lesser known network.


----------



## RapShepard

Does anybody have a fucking clue how to read these lol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450204558597279760


----------



## ProjectGargano

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450206349250506752

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450206708412911620
LMAO we gotta love this.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> I've been hearing from some of the WWE faithful that Sasha vs. Becky is a Wrestlemania main event level match and Usos vs. Street Profits is also PPV level.


and the tribal chief and brock

but jokes aside - i hope you guys know we’re only having a laugh - its really not that serious


----------



## elo

WWE got sucked in to a fake war and took a hit, just yikes - it really does sum up WWE corp well.

Tony Khan's tweet last week should have been ignored, Khan didn't even put on a stacked Rampage, he just continued his standard show and got a draw from a show that started 2 hours later and maybe even a win in the 30 min head-to-head.

EDIT:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450206349250506752
Rampage won the head-to-head 30 mins.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Does anybody have a fucking clue how to read these lol
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450204558597279760


its how rampage compares in each demo vs the other shows

so - in 18-49 they had x % more than NXT for example

when rampage wins they are in the cell, when the other show wins they are in the cell


----------



## Prized Fighter

3venflow said:


> How many homes are the free-to-air networks like FOX on? I doubt AEW could get on network TV but it'd surely grow their TV fanbase if they did.


114 million


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ProjectGargano said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450206349250506752
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450206708412911620
> LMAO we gotta love this.


fucking hell i knew it  

well, i didn’t - i’m legit shocked


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> I've been hearing from some of the WWE faithful that Sasha vs. Becky is a Wrestlemania main event level match and Usos vs. Street Profits is also PPV level.


So any show with 2 PPV worthy matches is a PPV level show?


----------



## 3venflow

ProjectGargano said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450206349250506752


Huge if true. No wonder WWE didn't leak the demos with the fast nationals.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

ProjectGargano said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450206349250506752
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450206708412911620
> LMAO we gotta love this.


Based shit posting Tony


----------



## ThunderNitro

Damn, I thought Becky Lynch was the greatest draw since Hulk Hogan.


----------



## Whoanma

ProjectGargano said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450206349250506752
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450206708412911620
> LMAO we gotta love this.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Roman and Brock losing to Punk ..ruby and the bunny


----------



## Sad Panda

I really do get a kick out of Tony Khan.


----------



## 3venflow

CM Punk vs. Matt Sydal on AEW's B show beats the apparent WM level main event on WWE's A show.

Never again will I hear any Sydal slander on WF.


----------



## RapShepard

ProjectGargano said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450206349250506752
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450206708412911620
> LMAO we gotta love this.


Plot thickens for the losing show how many left during Sasha vs Becky or gasp muh tribal Chief. Wheres the quarter hours


----------



## RapShepard

ProjectGargano said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450206349250506752
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450206708412911620
> LMAO we gotta love this.


Plot thickens for the losing show how many left during Sasha vs Becky or gasp muh tribal Chief. Wheres the quarter hours


----------



## ThunderNitro

CM Punk versus Gillberg would get a higher rating in the key demo than most of what the WWE feeds their audience these days.


----------



## Whoanma

3venflow said:


> CM Punk vs. Matt Sydal on AEW's B show beats the apparent WM level main event on WWE's A show.
> 
> Never again will I hear any Sydal slander on WF.
> 
> View attachment 110394


Oh, but you will. I can’t help it, sorry.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Ok real talk..move rampage to 7 and go head to head with smack down asap


----------



## rbl85

Now it's really nice but i don't like what Khan is doing on twitter, he's acting like a child.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> fucking hell i knew it
> 
> well, i didn’t - i’m legit shocked


*I want total viewers, not cherry picked demos to hide the embarrassment. *


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *I want total viewers, not cherry picked demos to hide the embarrassment. *


----------



## elo

rbl85 said:


> Now it's really nice but i don't like what Khan is doing on twitter, he's acting like a child.


Acting like a child is what sucked WWE into acknowledging him, he's not going to stop now - just mute him!


----------



## yeahright2

The Rampage ratings are in
AEW Ratings prediction game
People rightfully didn´t expect AEW to do great numbers, but @Prized Fighter won

Meanwhile, I´ll just leave this one here.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446679936903925772
Tony need to eat a big piece of humble pie.


----------



## Prized Fighter

rbl85 said:


> Now it's really nice but i don't like what Khan is doing on twitter, he's acting like a child.


I felt the same way at first, but at this point he is committed to trolling and I have to just sit back and laugh at people taking the bait. It is definitely not how I want my owner acting, but damn is it funny to watch people get pissy about it.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

yeahright2 said:


> The Rampage ratings are in
> AEW Ratings prediction game
> People rightfully didn´t expect AEW to do great numbers, but @Prized Fighter won
> 
> Meanwhile, I´ll just leave this one here.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446679936903925772
> Tony need to eat a big piece of humble pie.


*He's acting like an even bigger ass on Twitter. I thought last week was his peak.*


----------



## DammitChrist

RapShepard said:


> Sidenote whatever the fuck is going on, on Love after Lockup WWE and AEW need to steal because clearly the bitches love it. Maybe Anna Jay needs to try and heal Malakai Black's heart


Jungle Boy vs Malakai Black match-up confirmed.


----------



## yeahright2

The Legit DMD said:


> *He's acting like an even bigger ass on Twitter. I thought last week was his peak.*


Spoiled kid who didn´t get what he wanted, despite spending a lot of (his dads) money. I´m not surprised.


----------



## 3venflow

Poor Sasha and Becky losing to what has been derided as 'Punk vs a jobber' on this board.

Anyone know if Saturday ratings always come out later on Mondays? They're very late today.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> The Rampage ratings are in
> AEW Ratings prediction game
> People rightfully didn´t expect AEW to do great numbers, but @Prized Fighter won
> 
> Meanwhile, I´ll just leave this one here.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446679936903925772
> Tony need to eat a big piece of humble pie.


*head to head - the half hour

from all we’ve seen he’s done that


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> Poor Sasha and Becky losing to what has been derided as 'Punk vs a jobber' on this board.
> 
> Anyone know if Saturday ratings always come out later on Mondays? They're very late today.


Brandon Thurston said they'll be out tomorrow morning


----------



## yeahright2

3venflow said:


> Poor Sasha and Becky losing to what has been derided as 'Punk vs a jobber' on this board.
> 
> Anyone know if Saturday ratings always come out later on Mondays? They're very late today.


I know a lot of people call Sydal a jobber, and his w/l record isn´t impressive on Dynamite. But I like him... I like him better than I like Punk


----------



## Prized Fighter

yeahright2 said:


> The Rampage ratings are in
> AEW Ratings prediction game
> People rightfully didn´t expect AEW to do great numbers, but @Prized Fighter won
> 
> Meanwhile, I´ll just leave this one here.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446679936903925772
> Tony need to eat a big piece of humble pie.


First off all, thank you for acknowledging your ratings chief. Secondly, technically Khan isn't wrong their. In the area that they went head to head, AEW won (in the demo. It is a small victory, but he is gonna claim it.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

I'm loving unhinged Tony


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> *head to head - the half hour
> 
> from all we’ve seen he’s done that


*No, he hasn't. Notice PwTorch was scared to post that full number.*


----------



## InexorableJourney

AEW WIN!!!

in a points decision.


----------



## 3venflow

yeahright2 said:


> I like him better than I like Punk


I love Sydal, man. If I was a promoter, he'd be one of my first undercard picks as he can work with anyone of any size or stature. He's one of the reasons Dante Martin has improved because of their work together. Ironic thing is he blew his first ever spot in AEW yet is normally such a crisp and polished wrestler.


----------



## RapShepard

So FS1 SmackDown wins week 1 of the Friday Night Scuffle

How will Rampage fare in week 2


----------



## Whoanma

3venflow said:


> Poor Sasha and Becky losing to what has been derided as 'Punk vs a jobber' on this board.
> 
> Anyone know if Saturday ratings always come out later on Mondays? They're very late today.


I remember reading someone saying Becky and Sasha were going to bury Rampage. Hmmm…


----------



## Botchy SinCara




----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *No, he hasn't. Notice PwTorch was scared to post that full number.*


sorry son, in this house we care about the key demo


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> So FS1 SmackDown wins week 1 of the Friday Night Scuffle
> 
> How will Rampage fare in week 2


*The goofballs on socials are trying to spin it as a win. They sound like Trump after the election. "BUT WE WON ALL THE RED STATES!" You got SMOKED in overall viewership. Take the L.*


----------



## RainmakerV2

Khan is completely off the rails and embarrassing himself. Did Urban Meyer slip him some coke or something?


----------



## DaSlacker

The last time CM Punk faced Matt Sydal one on one was in October 2010. It attracted 4.3 million viewers. Becky, Sasha, Brock and Roman faced some Hogan/Andre like competition on Friday and nobody even knew it. 


(yeah, I'm trolling) 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Sad Panda

RainmakerV2 said:


> Khan is completely off the rails and embarrassing himself. Did Urban Meyer slip him some coke or something?


Think he found Vinces coke dealer from back in the day?


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> *head to head - the half hour
> 
> from all we’ve seen he’s done that


That´s not how ratings work. You either win the overall or you didn´t win. There´s no twisting words here. And he did a one hour show before Rampage free for everyone to see, so the ½ hour argument doesn´t hold water anyway. Just because he won a specific demo for ½ an hour doesn´t suddenly negate what he tweeted. It´s on the Internet, and like Pepperidge farm, The Internet remembers. Tony lost. Theres´s no ifs, buts and "oh, it was bad weather" excuses.


----------



## 3venflow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> sorry son, in this house we care about the key demo


As do networks and advertisers who would rather have 200,000 18-49s watch than 400,000 boomers. Only people who point to the P2+ as the main metric now are stuck in 1999 because no one in the biz does and it's been documented beyond any shadow of a doubt.

Head-to-head, AEW won in their competing 30 minutes. Overall on the night, Smackdown won by 1k.


----------



## Prized Fighter

RainmakerV2 said:


> Khan is completely off the rails and embarrassing himself. Did Urban Meyer slip him some coke or something?


Whoa now. Urban isn't doing coke, he is just out there cheating on his wife and fingering buttholes through jeans. Give the man his respect.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *I want total viewers, not cherry picked demos to hide the embarrassment. *


Remember how you told us all week that Sasha Banks (along with the current Universal Champion) would “bury” CM Punk?

Yea, that didn’t happen here 😂


----------



## Ace

The Legit DMD said:


> *No, he hasn't. Notice PwTorch was scared to post that full number.*


lmfao, twist it however you like, this is a massive embarrassment for WWE.

Punk against a mid tier star on their secondary show beat their premier show with the show stacked to win with all their big names and no commercials, lead in.

TK is rightfully busting a nut over this.

Imagine if he had put Punk vs Omega or something, SD would have been creamed.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450198101419982851


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> That´s not how ratings work. You either win the overall or you didn´t win. There´s no twisting words here. And he did a one hour show before Rampage free for everyone to see, so the ½ hour argument doesn´t hold water anyway. Just because he won a specific demo for ½ an hour doesn´t suddenly negate what he tweeted. It´s on the Internet, and like Pepperidge farm, The Internet remembers. Tony lost. Theres´s no ifs, buts and "oh, it was bad weather" excuses.


what are you talking about?

head to head means the overlapping half hour / demo is the main metric we as AEW fans have followed for 2 years now - cause that is what showbuzzdaily and the industry ranks by - you know this.

you might call it bias, but its consistent for 2 years now

and if you want to bring youtube into it - well then AEW won the friday night youtube war cause wwe did nothing in that timeframe - but i think we can agree thats just silly

listen… your team took the shock L on home field advantage / and i get its a tough loss

but for now… i just need you to


----------



## yeahright2

3venflow said:


> As do networks and advertisers who would rather have 200,000 18-49s watch than 400,000 boomers. Only people who point to the P2+ as the main metric now are stuck in 1999 because no one in the biz does and it's been documented beyond any shadow of a doubt.
> 
> Head-to-head, AEW won in their competing 30 minutes. Overall on the night, Smackdown won by 1k.


I need to see the results where AEW beat SD in the overall ratings for that ½ hour. If it´s just in one specific demo (which is all I´ve seen), then AEW didn´t beat SD and TK looks like a fool for suggesting it.
As fans we shouldn´t even care about ratings, but if we do, it´s the overall ratings that matter -More viewers=better product to people who doesn´t work in the industry.


----------



## Ace

RainmakerV2 said:


> Khan is completely off the rails and embarrassing himself. Did Urban Meyer slip him some coke or something?


 Dude is beating a monopoly that has been running for decades and is associated with pro wrestling 2 years in.


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> *The goofballs on socials are trying to spin it as a win. They sound like Trump after the election. "BUT WE WON ALL THE RED STATES!" You got SMOKED in overall viewership. Take the L.*


I mean it's fairly simple they lost but not badly. SmackDown was 3 AEW was 4. The 30 minute overlap apparently they got, fair game. Got to give them credit if Punk Sydal beat Sasha vs Becky and Reigns vs Lesnar segment that's just being a good sport. But overall one show was 3 and the other was 4. 

The compelling thing though is if folk want to just count just the competing 30 minutes, do we now throw out the 3rd hour of Raw when comparing Raw and Dynamite? Because if you only count the 2 hours they share then Dynamite has never beat Raw.


----------



## 3venflow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450213297744084994

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1449038798910750722


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *The goofballs on socials are trying to spin it as a win. They sound like Trump after the election. "BUT WE WON ALL THE RED STATES!" You got SMOKED in overall viewership. Take the L.*


Nah, you’re taking the L here after gloating all week about this company (and Punk) getting “buried.” 

I guarantee that you’d be gloating excessively on here had Smackdown topped Rampage on the demographic numbers.

For the record, don’t ever compare those rational fans to that toxic Former Guy. Nobody is as awful as that clown has been recently.


----------



## Ace

3venflow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450213297744084994
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1449038798910750722


 HAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAH

CM GOAT bitches.


----------



## Ace

CM Punk in the middle of a retirement run is still a bigger star and draw than Becky Lynch and Sasha Banks in their primes COMBINED, that too while they're in the biggest pro wrestling company in the world.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450213297744084994
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1449038798910750722


ouchie


----------



## Mr316

Tony going wild all over Twitter! You gotta love it.


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> what are you talking about?
> 
> head to head means the overlapping half hour / demo is the main metric we as AEW fans have followed for 2 years now - cause that is what showbuzzdaily and the industry ranks by - you know this.
> 
> you might call it bias, but its consistent for 2 years now
> 
> and if you want to bring youtube into it - well then AEW won the friday night youtube war cause wwe did nothing in that timeframe - but i think we can agree thats just silly
> 
> listen… your team took the shock L on home field advantage / and i get its a tough loss
> 
> but for now… i just need you to
> 
> View attachment 110397


Kinda stupid to discuss which team lost when it was clearly AEW who took the pin here. Demo DOESN´T matter. TK didn´t tweet "We´ll beat them head to head in a small segmented demo of the viewers" If he had done that, I might give you this one, but he didn´t so no. All you AEW loyalists lost, and now you´re trying to put a positive spin on it like you were Dave Meltzer clones.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

@The Legit DMD - now you can post the receipts from the 80% votes

we were clearly all wrong and I feel ashamed for doubting papa Khan


----------



## Whoanma

3venflow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450213297744084994
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1449038798910750722


----------



## Martyn

Wow, Rampage outdrew SmackDown in direct head to head competition. 

Looks like Reigns lost a step or two... 😂


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

I won't say they won but it's a step in the right direction for AEW, and worrisome for WWE.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> Kinda stupid to discuss which team lost when it was clearly AEW who took the pin here. Demo DOESN´T matter. TK didn´t tweet "We´ll beat them head to head in a small segmented demo of the viewers" If he had done that, I might give you this one, but he didn´t so no. All you AEW loyalists lost, and now you´re trying to put a positive spin on it like you were Dave Meltzer clones.


i’m gonna need you to unfortunately take the L here boss

demo is king, papa Khan led us to glory

CM Trunks blessed us by not wearing the long bois

it is what it is


----------



## Mr316

DYING 😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## Ace

Undertaker23RKO said:


> I won't say they won but it's a step in the right direction for AEW, and worrisome for WWE.


 WWE have taken nothing but Ls in this wrestling war lmao.

Best of all they're the ones who started it with NXT and now SD.


----------



## Sad Panda

3venflow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450213297744084994
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1449038798910750722


Oh shit…


----------



## 3venflow

yeahright2 said:


> Kinda stupid to discuss which team lost when it was clearly AEW who took the pin here. Demo DOESN´T matter.


Sorry man, but demo is the _default_ metric now. Total viewers is fun for the fans and prediction games since there's a wider range of predictions to be had, but within the business it's all about the 18-49s.

This is literally what he said earlier this month:

"*The (18-49) demo is the number that we are measured by, and that’s the chart that we receive from our partners at TNT. *I have a meeting with TNT executives every week and we go through the ratings. We used to just go through the ratings for ‘Dynamite,’ but now we also go through the ratings for ‘Rampage’ and look at patterns. The main thing we tend to look at is 18-49. We’ll look at different splits, by gender and different demographics, but absolutely the 18-49 overall is the bread and butter number that we always look at at the start of the meeting.”


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Mr316 said:


> View attachment 110398
> 
> DYING 😂😂😂😂😂


fucking helllllll


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i’m gonna need you to unfortunately take the L here boss
> 
> demo is king, papa Khan led us to glory
> 
> CM Trunks blessed us by not wearing the long bois
> 
> it is what it is


Nope. TK didn´t say he´d beat SD in a demo, ergo it´s the overall numbers that count. Now, if you can show me the breakdowns that says AEW beat WWE in that ½ hour, then I MIGHT give you that, but the tweet didn´t say anything about demo so I´m holding TK and every AEW fan to the exact wording of that tweet.

I´m not doubting Punk outdrew the girls on SD in a neckbeard demo..


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Ace said:


> lmfao, twist it however you like, this is a massive embarrassment for WWE.
> 
> Punk against a mid tier star beat their premier show with the show stacked to win.
> 
> TK is rightfully busting a nut over this.
> 
> Imagine if he had put Punk vs Omega or something, SD would have been creamed.


*Omega and Hangman already got buried by Sasha. Don't waste my time with nonsense. 







*


----------



## Ace

3venflow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450213297744084994
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1449038798910750722


LMAO please Punk quote this on twitter.

Eat this shit up while you can, you've truly fucked WWE and Vince this time. Eat it up.


----------



## Sad Panda

On Dynamite I wrote maybe the the bunny and Ford needed less on air time. Boy was I wrong.


----------



## RapShepard

Are we going by the charts or????


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

In seriousness guys - the fight was won as soon as this shit started

AEW has been acknowledged by fans, talent and management alike

the biggest mistake was even entertaining TK slightly

there was no good outcome for WWE here except if they gave AEW a crushing defeat in the last half hour

this could always be spun 100s of different ways


----------



## RainmakerV2

Ace said:


> Dude is beating a monopoly that has been running for decades and is associated with pro wrestling 2 years in.



He isnt beating shit lmao.


----------



## elo

Botchy SinCara said:


> View attachment 110396


That nails it.

WWE fell into the trap, for a corporation that rarely acknowledges "competitors" they gave AEW a free kick on Friday night purely triggered by one Tony Khan trolling tweet.


----------



## RainmakerV2

RapShepard said:


> Are we going by the charts or????



We're going by whatever they can pick out to make Tony Khan not look like an unhinged idiot.


----------



## Ace

The Legit DMD said:


> *Omega and Hangman already got buried by Sasha. Don't waste my time with nonsense.
> View attachment 110399
> *


 The most telling thing in all this is not a single leak of the demos from WWE.

They know they lost and are no doubt worried now, if they weren't before.

Perception is AEW is the hot thing in town for wrestling, not WWE.


----------



## 3venflow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450214550549172230


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Are we going by the charts or????


we’re going by quarters this time sir - it fits our narrative

this is after all an AEW thread


----------



## yeahright2

3venflow said:


> Sorry man, but demo is the _default_ metric now. Total viewers is fun for the fans and prediction games since there's a wider range of predictions to be had, but within the business it's all about the 18-49s.
> 
> This is literally what he said earlier this month:
> 
> "*The (18-49) demo is the number that we are measured by, and that’s the chart that we receive from our partners at TNT. *I have a meeting with TNT executives every week and we go through the ratings. We used to just go through the ratings for ‘Dynamite,’ but now we also go through the ratings for ‘Rampage’ and look at patterns. The main thing we tend to look at is 18-49. We’ll look at different splits, by gender and different demographics, but absolutely the 18-49 overall is the bread and butter number that we always look at at the start of the meeting.”


Demo is perhaps default metric to those in the business. But not to fans. And even if they were, AEW didn´t beat WWE in the key demo either. whatever way you guys want to spin it, TK didn´t live up to his tweet.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Hadn't seen this in here yet.





Because why would you.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> In seriousness guys - the fight was won as soon as this shit started
> 
> AEW has been acknowledged by fans, talent and management alike
> 
> the biggest mistake was even entertaining TK slightly
> 
> there was no good outcome for WWE here except if they gave AEW a crushing defeat in the last half hour
> 
> this could always be spun 100s of different ways


But the shit talk is fun and whether WWE acknowledge it or not they're always going to take the L as far as hardcore opinion. I mean let's not forget they're going to Saudi Arabia this week and that's always negative blow back


----------



## Ace

The Legit DMD said:


> *Omega and Hangman already got buried by Sasha. Don't waste my time with nonsense.
> View attachment 110399
> *


Punk-Sydal beat Becky-Sasha lmao, give Punk-Omega and that margin only increases.


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> He isnt beating shit lmao.


He just did.


----------



## Sad Panda

RainmakerV2 said:


> We're going by whatever they can pick out to make Tony Khan not look like an unhinged idiot.


Hell yeah!


----------



## Whoanma

Mr316 said:


> View attachment 110398
> 
> DYING 😂😂😂😂😂











Acknowledge the Candlestick Maker.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> we’re going by quarters this time sir - it fits our narrative
> 
> this is after all an AEW thread


Well if we're going by quarters I'm picking that quarter when the Rock showed up on the Fox debut


----------



## ProjectGargano

RapShepard said:


> Are we going by the charts or????


We are going by AEW vs Smackdown 30 minutes head to head, which AEW won. The 10:30--11pm, of course lose viewers.


----------



## thorwold

Sad Panda said:


> On Dynamite I wrote maybe the the bunny and Ford needed less on air time. Boy was I wrong.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450214585911308293


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> Demo is perhaps default metric to those in the business. But not to fans. And even if they were, AEW didn´t beat WWE in the key demo either. whatever way you guys want to spin it, TK didn´t live up to his tweet.


he did in the head to head


----------



## 3venflow

yeahright2 said:


> Demo is perhaps default metric to those in the business. But not to fans.


It is to fans who understand how the wrestling business works now.

When we say 'RAW was number one on cable' or 'Dynamite was number one on cable' or 'Smackdown was number one on TV', that's because they were number one in the 18-49. They're both always down the list on P2+. If total viewers is what matters, then I doubt Smackdown, RAW or Dynamite have ever been number one on TV. But all three have and are regularly because, 18-49.

If it was about P2+ then networks would just run 24/7 news shows since they rake in the boomers.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> @The Legit DMD - now you can post the receipts from the 80% votes
> 
> we were clearly all wrong and I feel ashamed for doubting papa Khan


*You just lost by another 80 k viewers 🤣

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450198101419982851*


----------



## Ace

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450211491580420104


----------



## elo

Mr316 said:


> View attachment 110398
> 
> DYING 😂😂😂😂😂


Tony Khan should put that as his profile picture on twitter........before the Bucks do.

That is hilarious.


----------



## RainmakerV2

The Legit DMD said:


> *You just lost by another 80 k viewers 🤣
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450198101419982851*



They'll ignore it lol


----------



## ProjectGargano

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450216671285682179
The same guy.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> But the shit talk is fun and whether WWE acknowledge it or not they're always going to take the L as far as hardcore opinion. I mean let's not forget they're going to Saudi Arabia this week and that's always negative blow back


oh the shit talk is amazing fun

its all BS though, just a bit of banter

its raw tonight and everybody is talking about TK

say what you will, the dude is a great promoter


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Ace said:


> Punk-Sydal beat Becky-Sasha lmao, give Punk-Omega and that margin only increases.


*No, they didn't. Rampage lost by 288 k viewers. Try learning simple math.*


----------



## Ace

ProjectGargano said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450216671285682179
> The same guy.


They'll ignore it lol


----------



## RapShepard

ProjectGargano said:


> We are going by AEW vs Smackdown 30 minutes head to head, which AEW won. The 10:30--11pm, of course lose viewers.


So from now on Raw vs Dynamite is only counting the 8pm - 10pm block????????????? (Insert a lot more question marks and one of those sarcastic inquisitive faces)


----------



## Whoanma

Destination trololol, destination Ruby So-ho!


----------



## Ace

The Legit DMD said:


> *No, they didn't. Rampage lost by 288 k viewers. Try learning simple math.*


 Nobody gives a fuck about what 300,000 geezers who are old enough to be most posters great grandfathers are watching.


----------



## Prosper

I've been out of the thick of the news for a while, but if I'm reading the thread correctly:

1.) WWE leaked the Fast Nationals.
2.) WWE lost the 30 minute crossover.
3.) Sasha, Becky, Roman, and Lesnar couldn't beat Punk/Sydal/Ruby/Bunny

That's all there is to it. WWE are definitely coming off as the losers here based on public perception alone. Whether they had more overall viewers or not, Rampage is a 10pm show in a crucial death slot that has no where near the name value of SD whether they're on FS1 or not. WWE was jabbed on the chin on this one. And its obvious that Tony Khan is trolling social media and has been since this whole "Friday night war" thing started a week back. Its hilarious how the WWE elitists get triggered by his every comment.

I don't get why there are some people in this thread that are so salty about this. Are you fans of AEW or not? Tony Khan said that he intended on beating SD and while he didn't completely win, he won the metric that matters to the people who get paid to worry about this shit. And as I'm catching up on threads all I see are people salivating at the thought of Tony eating his words like what he said was a personal attack on them. I can feel the saltiness and its bizarre.


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> he did in the head to head


I´m still waiting for that to be documented. NOT THE DEMO, but the overall viewership. It might exist, but I haven´t seen it. Or maybe I´ve overlooked it. - The rating thread ls always buzzing with life when ratings come out.


----------



## DammitChrist

ProjectGargano said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450216671285682179
> The same guy.


This will be ignored.


----------



## TheGunnShow

ProjectGargano said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450216671285682179
> The same guy.


Does AEW beating NXT a bunch of times not count?


----------



## Ace

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450212803642413056


----------



## 3venflow

Ace said:


> Nobody gives a fuck about what 280,000 geezers are watching.


You're replying to the board's number one Vincel who has spent all weekend trolling this thread to try and wind people up and is now in damage control mode having embarrassed him/herself. AEW's head-to-head win has shocked everyone on this board, so the gloaters from Friday and Saturday are finding it extra shocking. Expect their trolling to ramp up from here on in.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Ace said:


> Nobody gives a fuck about what 300,000 geezers who are old enough to be most posters great grandfathers are watching.


*That matters about as much as your opinion on factual statements. 300,000>0. You lost. Pack it up.*


----------



## Ace

SD is WWE's premier show and they stacked the entire deck.


----------



## rbl85

Without the commercial Soho vs Bunny did 0.25


----------



## Erik.

Man, who cares?

Smackdown is dog shit.


----------



## thorwold

yeahright2 said:


> Demo is perhaps default metric to those in the business. But not to fans. And even if they were, AEW didn´t beat WWE in the key demo either. whatever way you guys want to spin it, TK didn´t live up to his tweet.


What on earth? Why the hell would fans care about any ratings other than what matters to the business? Ratings matter to business because they ensure the long lasting potential of the shows we watch. Why would anything else matter to anyone as anything other than a record of what happened?

Are ratings wars entirely removed from industry significance the next great sporting juggernaut?


----------



## Ace

The Legit DMD said:


> *That matters about as much as your opinion on factual statements. 300,00>0. You lost. Pack it up.*


 You lost? You have Britt Baker as your avatar you clown.


----------



## NXT Only

TK called his shot and hit it out the park lmaoooo


----------



## Sad Panda

Ace said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450212803642413056


Uncle Dave dropping bombs!


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *That matters about as much as your opinion on factual statements. 300,000>0. You lost. Pack it up.*


@Ace is actually respectful in giving out his opinions on factual statements to others for the most part though.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *You just lost by another 80 k viewers 🤣
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450198101419982851*


sorry, he’s not a trusted news source of the TKC (Tony Khan Collective)

we’ll only take his tweets where he highlights the demo by head to head quarter as that is what we are discussing tonight


----------



## yeahright2

thorwold said:


> What on earth? Why the hell would fans care about any ratings other than what matters to the business? Ratings matter to business because they ensure the long lasting potential of the shows we watch. Why would anything else matter to anyone as anything other than a record of what happened?
> 
> Are ratings wars entirely removed from industry significance the next great sporting juggernaut?


Please read the entire conversation before jumping in on things you might not understand. I could explain, but then it would be double posting, and I don´t feel like explaining myself twice


----------



## elo

Smackdown is going 3 hours on FS1 this week (well the 3rd hour is "Talking Smack")...WWE is completely triggered.


----------



## Whoanma

Lol. Ruby Soho and the F-in Bunny. I just can’t…


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> oh the shit talk is amazing fun
> 
> its all BS though, just a bit of banter
> 
> its raw tonight and everybody is talking about TK
> 
> say what you will, the dude is a great promoter


I'm still on the fence on him as a great promoter just because it's really just rallying his core. But when it comes to that he's certainly better at igniting his core than WWE is. Having fan goodwill is a good thing.


----------



## Bubbly2

The Legit DMD said:


> *No, he hasn't. Notice PwTorch was scared to post that full number.*


Wade Keller is more critical of AEW than any wrestling journalist i have seen to be fair.


----------



## rbl85

Let's be honest guys and girls, Soho and the Bunny having a better demo than Lesnar and Reigns is quite shocking


----------



## elo

Ouch - Punk smoked Becky v Sasha hard.


----------



## Whoanma

rbl85 said:


> Let's be honest guys and girls, Soho and the Bunny having a better demo than Lesnar and Reigns is quite shocking


It’s hilarious.


----------



## thorwold

The Legit DMD said:


> *That matters about as much as your opinion on factual statements. 300,000>0. You lost. Pack it up.*


What are you so angry about?


----------



## 3venflow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450211491580420104
Rovell got ratio'd hard here.

Tbh, I thought TK's original tweet was stupid as I didn't expect Rampage to win the 30 minute direct head-to-head with Smackdown's huge main event. So it's no wonder he's acting like a kid in a candy store. All I'd advise to Tony is don't do that again, you pulled off the upset this time so take the W and don't let it bite you on your ass. AEW is years away from any consistent challenge to WWE but how quickly they've even become _competitive_ in any metric, let alone multiple, is impressive. TNA tried for years and got nowhere.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> I´m still waiting for that to be documented. NOT THE DEMO, but the overall viewership. It might exist, but I haven´t seen it. Or maybe I´ve overlooked it. - The rating thread ls always buzzing with life when ratings come out.


in this house we follow the demo sir

the aew fans have long decided. You…. Are and AEW fan… aren’t you?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *That matters about as much as your opinion on factual statements. 300,000>0. You lost. Pack it up.*


he lost….. in a _competition_….. right?


----------



## Prosper

rbl85 said:


> Let's be honest guys and girls, Soho and the Bunny having a better demo than Lesnar and Reigns is quite shocking


That's pretty wild. The Bunny tho? lol

Even Sasha Banks and Becky Lynch losing to Punk/Sydal is shocking even considering that its CM Punk.


----------



## RapShepard

#3 > #4

The industry has spoken


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Bubbly2 said:


> Wade Keller is more critical of AEW than any wrestling journalist i have seen to be fair.


*Yet he'll quickly publish a demo article that ignores the total viewership destruction on a channel that MILLIONS of people don't even have in their homes. This is so embarrassing for AEW and its fans to celebrate, yet totally unsurprising. *


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

elo said:


> View attachment 110401
> 
> 
> Ouch - Punk smoked Becky v Sasha hard.


dang - imagine if we had somebody better than Sydal in there


----------



## Whoanma

But… but muh Becky and Sasha were going to obliterate them. How could this be?


----------



## DammitChrist

rbl85 said:


> Let's be honest guys and girls, Soho and the Bunny having a better demo than Lesnar and *Reigns* is quite shocking


I always knew that he was not a 'needle mover'.

I feel very satisfied now since I thankfully switched the channel last Friday so I didn't have to see him on TV at all.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> dang - imagine if we had somebody better than Sydal in there


Well Janela didn't want to overshadow the Chief because he's a respectful man


----------



## Prosper

The Legit DMD said:


> *Yet he'll quickly publish a demo article that ignores the total viewership destruction on a channel that MILLIONS of people don't even have in their homes. This is so embarrassing for AEW and its fans to celebrate, yet totally unsurprising. *


Sasha lost this time DMD, its not that big of a deal. You know you'd be in here celebrating if she hadn't of lost.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450211491580420104
> Rovell got ratio'd hard here.
> 
> Tbh, I thought TK's original tweet was stupid as I didn't expect Rampage to win the 30 minute direct head-to-head with Smackdown's huge main event. So it's no wonder he's acting like a kid in a candy store. All I'd advise to Tony is don't do that again, you pulled off the upset this time so take the W and don't let it bite you on your ass. AEW is years away from any consistent challenge to WWE but how quickly they've even become _competitive_ in any metric, let alone multiple, is impressive. TNA tried for years and got nowhere.


for sure - he can‘t ride this horse too many times


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> in this house we follow the demo sir
> 
> the aew fans have long decided. You…. Are and AEW fan… aren’t you?


Nope. We follow what he tweeted. Word for word. again, there was no mention of demo in his tweet, so if he didn´t beat them overall, he didn´t beat them.

And no. I´m not an AEW fan. I´m not a WWE, NJPW, ROH or Impact fan. I´m a wrestling fan. Whatever company gives me the best entertainment, I´ll watch. And I observe the right to point out when someone says or does something stupid like Tony did here. I haven´t acknowledged anyone in WWE, and I haven´t sworn loyalty to the Cult of Khan.


----------



## EmbassyForever

BIG W!


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> Sasha lost this time DMD, its not that big of a deal. You know you'd be in here celebrating if she hadn't of lost.


I mean SmackDown got 3 and Rampage got 4 there was a Khan who won, but it wasn't Tony

#AllHoursOfRatingsMatter


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> #3 > #4
> 
> The industry has spoken


*I swear this is literally like the election. *


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prosper said:


> Sasha lost this time DMD, its not that big of a deal. You know you'd be in here celebrating if she hadn't of lost.


*Can you count?*


----------



## 3venflow

Savage by Jericho.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450223337846755330


----------



## Whoanma

The Bunny refused.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> *and I haven´t sworn loyalty to the Cult of Khan.*


its time… join the winning side

i know you are still in the key demo


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> I mean SmackDown got 3 and Rampage got 4 there was a Khan who won, but it wasn't Tony
> 
> #AllHoursOfRatingsMatter


Getting the higher ranking is cool for SD too. Like I said in my earlier post, SD won overall, but the big story in the industry is what we have been discussing the last 7 pages. I mean that's a win for AEW all things considered. The talking point of the day is that SD took a hit from a new show in a death slot and that their top stars couldn't beat jobbers.


----------



## Sad Panda

This thread right now is better than most Smackdowns. 

I know I’m having a good laugh while making dinner. Thank you mates.


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> its time… join the winning side
> 
> i know you are still in the key demo
> 
> View attachment 110402


Do we still have to be naked to be in the cult ?


----------



## elo

Sad Panda said:


> This thread right now is better than most Smackdowns.
> 
> I know I’m having a good laugh while making dinner. Thank you mates.


I can't believe how triggered people get over this stuff, pro wrestling is having a mini-boom and instead some posters in here have completely lost the plot.

This is a good day for pro wrestling period.


----------



## thorwold

The Legit DMD said:


> *I swear this is literally like the election. *


Yes… the 2016 election where one got more votes… and it didn’t fucking matter.


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> Getting the higher ranking is cool for SD too. Like I said in my earlier post, SD won overall, but the big story in the industry is what we have been discussing the last 7 pages. I mean that's a win for AEW all things considered. The talking point of the day is that SD took a hit from a new show in a death slot and that their top stars couldn't beat jobbers.


Doesn't that just highlight that the industry was never going to let them lose [emoji2379]. They literally took the ratings L, but the industry decided to focus on the positive spin


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> Do we still have to be naked to be in the cult ?


well….. you don‘t _have_ to be…. But we all kinda wanna be


----------



## Sad Panda

elo said:


> I can't believe how triggered people get over this stuff, pro wrestling is having a mini-boom and instead some posters in here have completely lost the plot.
> 
> This is a good day for pro wrestling period.


Agreed.

And I will admit, I’m totally an AEW mark. I love the product, I love the rabid fan base. But this is great for wrestling. It brings me back to a time of yesteryear when wrestling mattered and there would be legit options. 

I also just love how it’s always the DMD dude, Rainmaker and LaParka. I haven’t been here long but those seem like the usual downers that have to bring AEW fans and their excitement down a peg or two. 

I find it fascinating and all very entertaining.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Doesn't that just highlight that the industry was never going to let them lose [emoji2379]. They literally took the ratings L, but the industry decided to focus on the positive spin


which is why i said even starting the fight (by going a half hour longer) - or talent from wwe taking jabs was dumb / or responding to TKs and talents jabs

even if they didn’t win the demo, there was still a bunch of ways you could spin it positive

people need to learn, basing this shit of stats is never gonna be black and white


----------



## thorwold

elo said:


> I can't believe how triggered people get over this stuff, pro wrestling is having a mini-boom and instead some posters in here have completely lost the plot.
> 
> This is a good day for pro wrestling period.


It’s amazing, isn’t it? The ‘war’ is literally good for both companies in every meaningful way (hence why the WWE, despite clearly instigating and partaking in it, won’t say one word to give AEW any kind of rub, and Tony won’t shut the fuck up) and certainly is for their fans, and yet all this god damn comic tribalism.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Do you think Vince still thinks AEW is not competition?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Doesn't that just highlight that the industry was never going to let them lose [emoji2379]. They literally took the ratings L, but the industry decided to focus on the positive spin


*Imagine losing to Usain Bolt in high heels by a few seconds and declaring yourself the fastest man in the world.*


----------



## Araxen

Only a matter of time now for Tony to pony up the money for Tanahashi to be in an AEW ring.


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> Doesn't that just highlight that the industry was never going to let them lose [emoji2379]. They literally took the ratings L, but the industry decided to focus on the positive spin


The positive spin is the shocking part though, that's why its so newsworthy right now. I mean we're talking the over-pushed face of the company in Roman Reigns and Brock Lesnar getting the same demo as a terrible throwaway women's match. Rampage is like 2 months old. The industry supports the underdog for sure, especially given how much goodwill WWE has lost over the years, but this is a spin that people should have fun discussing from my POV.


----------



## rbl85

Araxen said:


> Only a matter of time now for Tony to pony up the money for Tanahashi to be in an AEW ring.


I don't think money is the problem here


----------



## Whoanma

Prosper said:


> The positive spin is the shocking part though, that's why its so newsworthy right now. I mean we're talking the over-pushed face of the company in Roman Reigns and Brock Lesnar getting the same demo as a terrible throwaway women's match. Rampage is like 2 months old. The industry supports the underdog for sure, especially given how much goodwill WWE has lost over the years, but this is a spin that people should have fun discussing from my POV.


Terrible throwaway women’s match are the keywords here.


----------



## thorwold

RapShepard said:


> Doesn't that just highlight that the industry was never going to let them lose . They literally took the ratings L, but the industry decided to focus on the positive spin


Haven’t you ever seen Rocky? What’s happening here is basically the final act of Rocky. That’s the context you should look at it in.

#notjustanotherbumfromtheneighborhood


----------



## 3venflow

For some reason Bunny matches have a history of doing quite well even though she's painfully boring. Now we have to acknowledge her as a needle-mover.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*"Sasha lost." Meanwhille, in reality, this company can't fuck with her on any Network.


 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450214815637463043*


----------



## Whoanma

thorwold said:


> Haven’t you ever seen Rocky? What’s happening here is basically the final act of Rocky. That’s the context you should look at it in.
> 
> #notjustanotherbumfromtheneighborhood


----------



## Sad Panda

3venflow said:


> For some reason Bunny matches have a history of doing quite well even though she's painfully boring. Now we have to acknowledge her as a needle-mover.


I mean who doesn’t like a good bunny? Bugs Bunny, Easter bunny, Greg the bunny…. All needle movers in their respective field.


----------



## DammitChrist

Araxen said:


> Only a matter of time now for Tony to pony up the money for Tanahashi to be in an AEW ring.


Plus, the G1 tournament finally ends this Thursday.

We COULD theoretically see Hiroshi Tanahashi sooner rather than later.

Go Ace!!


----------



## thorwold

3venflow said:


> For some reason Bunny matches have a history of doing quite well even though she's painfully boring. Now we have to acknowledge her as a needle-mover.


How could you consider someone with those facials boring???? Do you think Nic Cage is BORING?


----------



## 3venflow

DammitChrist said:


> Plus, the G1 tournament finally ends this Thursday.
> 
> We COULD theoretically see him sooner rather than later.
> 
> Go Ace!!


Need to give this match to Danielson, Punk or Kenny now if Tana comes to AEW. It'd be wasted on Mox who I like but Mox vs. Tana could be a letdown compared to those matches.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> which is why i said even starting the fight (by going a half hour longer) - or talent from wwe taking jabs was dumb / or responding to TKs and talents jabs
> 
> even if they didn’t win the demo, there was still a bunch of ways you could spin it positive
> 
> people need to learn, basing this shit of stats is never gonna be black and white


They were going to be in a fight regardless might as well run full steam ahead. 



Prosper said:


> The positive spin is the shocking part though, that's why its so newsworthy right now. I mean we're talking the over-pushed face of the company in Roman Reigns and Brock Lesnar getting the same demo as a terrible throwaway women's match. Rampage is like 2 months old. The industry supports the underdog for sure, especially given how much goodwill WWE has lost over the years, but this is a spin that people should have fun discussing from my POV.


Industry is definitely going to milk this



The Legit DMD said:


> *Imagine losing to Usain Bolt in high heels by a few seconds and declaring yourself the fastest man in the world.*


Lol different analogy.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *"Sasha lost." Meanwhille, in reality, this company can't fuck with her on any Network.
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450214815637463043*


don’t worry, she’ll jump soon and then young people can watch her too


----------



## RapShepard

thorwold said:


> Haven’t you ever seen Rocky? What’s happening here is basically the final act of Rocky. That’s the context you should look at it in.
> 
> #notjustanotherbumfromtheneighborhood


Nope never seen it, know the moments tho


----------



## Prosper

3venflow said:


> Need to give this match to Danielson, Punk or Kenny now if Tana comes to AEW. It'd be wasted on Mox who I like but Mox vs. Tana could be a letdown compared to those matches.


I would actually do something unexpected and give it to Malakai Black. The guy has been tremendous. A Tanahashi/Black match would be on the same level for me.


----------



## Sad Panda

LifeInCattleClass said:


> don’t worry, she’ll jump soon and then young people can watch her too


#SAVAGE 

I wish I would’ve thought of that line. Good one man.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> They were going to be in a fight regardless might as well run full steam ahead.


nah, if smackdown stayed from 8 - 10, nothing would‘ve happened


----------



## bdon

ProjectGargano said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450206349250506752
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450206708412911620
> LMAO we gotta love this.


Heh. 


RapShepard said:


> Plot thickens for the losing show how many left during Sasha vs Becky or gasp muh tribal Chief. Wheres the quarter hours


Tribal Chief has now lost to AEW on Raw AND SmackDown. Fuck you, Roman.


yeahright2 said:


> The Rampage ratings are in
> AEW Ratings prediction game
> People rightfully didn´t expect AEW to do great numbers, but @Prized Fighter won
> 
> Meanwhile, I´ll just leave this one here.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446679936903925772
> Tony need to eat a big piece of humble pie.


Umm. The total viewership is not what WWE has hung its hat on forever. They routinely claim to be the #1 show on Monday Nights, despite always losing in total viewership to NFL. Vince always made sure to claim a W on the backs of Raw’s demo. 

Why is this hard to understand?


yeahright2 said:


> I need to see the results where AEW beat SD in the overall ratings for that ½ hour. If it´s just in one specific demo (which is all I´ve seen), then AEW didn´t beat SD and TK looks like a fool for suggesting it.
> As fans we shouldn´t even care about ratings, but if we do, it´s the overall ratings that matter -More viewers=better product to people who doesn´t work in the industry.


Again: Vince has been using the demos to claim Ws over Monday Night Football forever.

As to the rest of this discussion, I’m scrolling and still 6 pages behind you posting-whores, and I’m tapping out. Y’all are all acting like children, always fucking incapable of intellectual honesty.

WWE SDwas on a shit fucking channel. Even if I enjoyed WWE, I would have a hard time finding out what channel is FS1, because it’s a strictly boxing/racing channel in the back of my mind. It’s VERY niche.

AEW Rampage is and has always been on at 10pm, the Graveyard Death Slot of television.

Both shows were and are hurt in ways. Why can’t we just fucking admit this shit? Why!? Why!?

But very cool that TK called a victory on the head to head and got it. Though again: it WAS FS1 and on at the graveyard time slot.


----------



## 3venflow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450223374089834497


----------



## Chelsea

I saw Raj Giri's name being mentioned and DAMN, all the WWE accounts on his site celebrating this WWE "win" is hilarious. I had a good laugh at their ridiculous troll comments.

So yeah, it's clobberin' time


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Tony I know you're a big fan of my posts and read all of them. Please book Danielson against Eddie Edwards and Katsuhiko Nakajima next. Thanks.


----------



## Whoanma

Emmanuelle said:


> I saw Raj Giri's name being mentioned and DAMN, all the WWE accounts on his site celebrating this WWE "win" is hilarious. I had a good laugh at their ridiculous troll comments.
> 
> So yeah, it's clobberin' time


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> nah, if smackdown stayed from 8 - 10, nothing would‘ve happened


Even without the extra 30 folk would've compared based on it being on cable. 



bdon said:


> Heh.
> 
> Tribal Chief has now lost to AEW on Raw AND SmackDown. Fuck you, Roman.
> Umm. The total viewership is not what WWE has hung its hat on forever. They routinely claim to be the #1 show on Monday Nights, despite always losing in total viewership to NFL. Vince always made sure to claim a W on the backs of Raw’s demo.
> 
> Why is this hard to understand?
> 
> Again: Vince has been using the demos to claim Ws over Monday Night Football forever.
> 
> As to the rest of this discussion, I’m scrolling and still 6 pages behind you posting-whores, and I’m tapping out. Y’all are all acting like children, always fucking incapable of intellectual honesty.
> 
> WWE SDwas on a shit fucking channel. Even if I enjoyed WWE, I would have a hard time finding out what channel is FS1, because it’s a strictly boxing/racing channel in the back of my mind. It’s VERY niche.
> 
> AEW Rampage is and has always been on at 10pm, the Graveyard Death Slot of television.
> 
> Both shows were and are hurt in ways. Why can’t we just fucking admit this shit? Why!? Why!?
> 
> But very cool that TK called a victory on the head to head and got it. Though again: it WAS FS1 and on at the graveyard time slot.


I don't think Reigns was on the Raw's that lost the demo and SmackDown won the demo this week. AEW put in a valiant effort, should've been more over with the retirees


----------



## Klitschko

DammitChrist said:


> You're so obsessed with "exposing HYPOCRISY" and about being "right all the time with your twisted receipts" that it's reached the point that we can't even have ourselves a friendly discussion about the ratings without you derailing this topic in the most toxic/disrespectful way possible. You should listen to how you sound when you post.
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, when was the LAST time you've seen the dude I quoted admit that he's wrong on here?
> 
> I can't even think of 5 examples this year alone.
> 
> Hell, I just admitted being wrong about how double DQs and double count-outs work for the G1 tournament in NJPW like 20 minutes ago.
> 
> I was also wrong about who's entering the Eliminator tournament for the AEW World championship bracket.


Im going to be honest with you since I like you both lol. Never. I like @The Legit DMD, but he's Wood 2.0 when it comes to admiting when he's wrong.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Even without the extra 30 folk would've compared based on it being on cable.


mmmm - maybe - but you wouldn’t have the arguments of punk, sydal, bunny and ruby beating reigns, becky, sasha and lesnar

that is a visual worth milking a lot


----------



## Prosper

Wait SD is gonna be on FS1 next week too? It just gets better and better. I wonder how PAC/Andrade and OC/Hobbs will fare. Britt Baker on the show too.

With OC and Britt being proven draws, I see another L in the demos coming.


----------



## AuthorOfPosts

After all that, Rampage barely improved its viewership. Difficult to judge Dynamite with its move but it wasn't anything to shout about either.

Tony couldn't have picked a worse week to publicly suck his own dick.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> mmmm - maybe - but you wouldn’t have the arguments of punk, sydal, bunny and ruby beating reigns, becky, sasha and lesnar
> 
> that is a visual worth milking a lot


Oh for sure.


----------



## Makish16

Legit, did people think Becky and Sasha were bigger draws than bryan or punk



Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk


----------



## Sad Panda

Prosper said:


> Wait SD is gonna be on FS1 next week too? It just gets better and better. I wonder how PAC/Andrade and OC/Hobbs will fare. Britt Baker on the show too.
> 
> With OC and Britt being proven draws, I see another L in the demos coming.


Problem is Rampage is taped next week. You just can’t beat a live show.



Unless the Bunny makes a run in.. then all bets are off.


----------



## thorwold

Prosper said:


> Wait SD is gonna be on FS1 next week too? It just gets better and better. I wonder how PAC/Andrade and OC/Hobbs will fare. Britt Baker on the show too.
> 
> With OC and Britt being proven draws, I see another L in the demos coming.


No, it’s the 29th, I think. Not this week.


----------



## Prosper

thorwold said:


> No, it’s the 29th, I think. Not this week.


Ah got ya


----------



## Sad Panda

AuthorOfPosts said:


> Tony couldn't have picked a worse week to publicly suck his own dick.


TK posted this on Twitter as well? Jesus he really is going crazy huh!? Anything to get a response though.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

AuthorOfPosts said:


> After all that, Rampage barely improved its viewership. Difficult to judge Dynamite with its move but it wasn't anything to shout about either.
> 
> Tony couldn't have picked a worse week to publicly suck his own dick.


*The same people who ran around screaming about starting a new era and calling CM Punk a mega draw are celebrating a 50% decrease in viewership since his return. Let's let that sink in.*


----------



## DammitChrist

Sad Panda said:


> Problem is Rampage is taped next week. You just can’t beat a live show.
> 
> 
> 
> Unless the Bunny makes a run in.. then all bets are off.


To be fair, maybe the viewership for Rampage could stay steady for this upcoming Friday with the likes of Orange Cassidy and Britt Baker appearing on the show plus that AWESOME main-event with Andrade El Idolo vs Pac being must-see.

Trust me, folks, you *WANT* to see what happened in the last 20-25 minutes of the show. It was so freaking chaotic in a fun way.

Plus, Anna Jay is arguably THE hottest woman in the company; so maybe there'll be plenty of male viewers (or even some female viewers) who want to see her wrestle Britt Baker (who's also hot herself too)


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *The same people who ran around screaming about starting a new era and calling CM Punk a mega draw are celebrating a 50% decrease in viewership since his return. Let's let that sink in.*


smackdown fell by 1.2m people


----------



## thorwold

AuthorOfPosts said:


> After all that, Rampage barely improved its viewership. Difficult to judge Dynamite with its move but it wasn't anything to shout about either.
> 
> Tony couldn't have picked a worse week to publicly suck his own dick.


Why would it have done anything more than barely improve its viewership? They just ran a regular show, had actual wrestling competition running against them during the part of the show when viewership is highest, and from that context their numbers going up at all is pretty fantastic.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Even without the extra 30 folk would've compared based on it being on cable.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think Reigns was on the Raw's that lost the demo and SmackDown won the demo this week. AEW put in a valiant effort, should've been more over with the retirees


SD won by a 1000 viewers. In the actual head-to-head time slot, a first for AEW and WWE programming: he tied Ruby Soho and The Bunny WITH a commercial break.

We both know that isn’t a good look.

And as an aside, you and I often share the pulse of the more common fan, being that we both live in Fly Over country, so I have to ask: did you ever imagine those 30 minutes, a single demo, or anything being close? I genuinely thought TK was off his rocker when he made his proclamations last week. Never, EVER could have imagined that they’d be close let alone winning anything.


----------



## Prosper

DammitChrist said:


> To be fair, maybe the viewership for Rampage could stay steady for this upcoming Friday with the likes of Orange Cassidy and Britt Baker appearing on the show plus that AWESOME main-event with Andrade El Idolo vs Pac being must-see.
> 
> Trust me, folks, you *WANT* to see what happened in the last 20-25 minutes of the show. It was so freaking chaotic in a fun way.
> 
> Plus, Anna Jay is arguably THE hottest woman in the company; so maybe there'll be plenty of male viewers (or even some female viewers) who want to see her wrestle Britt Baker (who's also hot herself too)


Seeing PAC/Andrade live must have been dope as hell, I'm hearing that it was better than the first match. My boy PAC putting on banger after banger. I want a PAC vs Malakai Black match bad.


----------



## 3venflow

thorwold said:


> Why would it have done anything more than barely improve its viewership? They just ran a regular show, had actual wrestling competition running against them during the part of the show when viewership is highest, and from that context their numbers going up at all is pretty fantastic.


I was about to post that. They arrested a worrying week-by-week decline (down to 0.17 last week) *despite* calculated competition by the market leader. Maybe the pre-show, maybe it being live, or maybe TK being in extra hype mode made a difference, but Friday was a good night for AEW.

*August 13 Episode:* 740,000 viewers with a 0.30 rating in the 18-49 demographic (Premiere episode)
*August 20 Episode:* 1.129 million viewers with a 0.53 rating in the 18-49 demographic (The First Dance episode for CM Punk’s debut)
*August 27 Episode:* 722,000 viewers with a 0.34 rating in the 18-49 demographic (Taped episode)
*September 3 Episode:* 696,000 viewers with a 0.30 rating in the 18-49 demographic
*September 10 Episode:* 670,000 viewers with a 0.27 rating in the 18-49 demographic (Post-All Out taped episode)
*September 17 Episode:* 642,000 viewers with a 0.28 rating in the 18-49 demographic (Taped episode)
*September 24 Episode:* 640,000 viewers with a 0.29 rating in the 18-49 demographic (Two-hour Grand Slam taped episode)
*October 1 Episode:* 622,000 viewers with a 0.25 rating in the 18-49 demographic (Taped episode)
*October 8 Episode:* 502,000 viewers with a 0.17 rating in the 18-49 demographic (Taped episode)
*October 15 Episode:* 578,000 viewers with a 0.24 rating in the 18-49 demographic


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Even without the extra 30 folk would've compared based on it being on cable.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think Reigns was on the Raw's that lost the demo and SmackDown won the demo this week. AEW put in a valiant effort, should've been more over with the retirees


*Old folks secured the victory. *


----------



## thorwold

The Legit DMD said:


> *The same people who ran around screaming about starting a new era and calling CM Punk a mega draw are celebrating a 50% decrease in viewership since his return. Let's let that sink in.*


Hey, good one… Smackdown has decreased in viewership 50% since it debuted on Fox too. Very meaningful


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> SD won by a 1000 viewers. In the actual head-to-head time slot, a first for AEW and WWE programming: he tied Ruby Soho and The Bunny WITH a commercial break.
> 
> We both know that isn’t a good look.
> 
> And as an aside, you and I often share the pulse of the more common fan, being that we both live in Fly Over country, so I have to ask: did you ever imagine those 30 minutes, a single demo, or anything being close? I genuinely thought TK was off his rocker when he made his proclamations last week. Never, EVER could have imagined that they’d be close let alone winning anything.


i thought TK was smoking crack


----------



## bdon

Klitschko said:


> Im going to be honest with you since I like you both lol. Never. I like @The Legit DMD, but he's Wood 2.0 when it comes to admiting when he's wrong.


@The Legit DMD definitely isn’t the kind to admit when he’s wrong. Just like I always enjoyed shooting the shit with Wood, I enjoy back and forth banter with The Legit, but both guys are just as guilty of my biggest pet peeve: intellectual dishonesty.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450234963127906306

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chelsea

The Demo Goddess


----------



## Derek30

Man, you guys are passionate about the ratings!


----------



## Prosper

bdon said:


> SD won by a 1000 viewers. In the actual head-to-head time slot, a first for AEW and WWE programming: he tied Ruby Soho and The Bunny WITH a commercial break.
> 
> We both know that isn’t a good look.
> 
> And as an aside, you and I often share the pulse of the more common fan, being that we both live in Fly Over country, so I have to ask: did you ever imagine those 30 minutes, a single demo, or anything being close? I genuinely thought TK was off his rocker when he made his proclamations last week. Never, EVER could have imagined that they’d be close let alone winning anything.


I definitely thought he was tripping with that one, never imagined Rampage winning ANY metric let alone multiple.


----------



## AuthorOfPosts

The Legit DMD said:


> *The same people who ran around screaming about starting a new era and calling CM Punk a mega draw are celebrating a 50% decrease in viewership since his return. Let's let that sink in.*


There was a 10 minute period this week within the 18-49 demographic where the minute by minute showed there was significantly more desperation than ever before. Tony wins, you lose.


----------



## Whoanma

Emmanuelle said:


> The Demo Goddess


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450237217952108550

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## omaroo

What was the rating for dynamite or has it not been released yet?


----------



## 3venflow

omaroo said:


> What was the rating for dynamite or has it not been released yet?


Looks like tomorrow but based on the fast nationals, it looks like around 700k total and unknown 18-49.


----------



## Honey Bucket

For the next Rampage/SD/whatever, I think they should just pack up the ring, keep it hidden in storage, give the talent a few days holiday, roll out the ratings obsessives and let them go frothing at the mouths on their laptops for a couple of hours. Jesus wept some of you need to calm down ha.


----------



## ShadowCounter

The Legit DMD said:


> *"Sasha lost." Meanwhille, in reality, this company can't fuck with her on any Network.
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450214815637463043*


If you're stroking out this bad over demos I hope for your sake AEW never does beat WWE in total viewers.


----------



## Araxen

ShadowCounter said:


> If you're stroking out this bad over demos I hope for your sake AEW never does beat WWE in total viewers.


AEW just has to wait till the Boomers die off. lol


----------



## omaroo

3venflow said:


> Looks like tomorrow but based on the fast nationals, it looks like around 700k total and unknown 18-49.


Ok rating considering its not their normal day.


----------



## rich110991

Oh how the tables have turned 😂


----------



## PavelGaborik

Surprised by the demo results.

Good for AEW taking the head to head demo.


----------



## Prosper

The Oct 29th Rampage (next one against FS1) will probably have a tourney semi-final match. OC vs Moxley or Bryan vs Archer/Kingston. Either option would draw I think, so now that today happened, it'll definitely be interesting what happens and what the SD card will be.


----------



## Whoanma

Prosper said:


> The Oct 29th Rampage (next one against FS1) will probably have a tourney semi-final match. OC vs Moxley or Bryan vs Archer/Kingston. Either option would draw I think, so now that today happened, it'll definitely be interesting what happens and what the SD card will be.


----------



## rich110991

I fucking love AEW.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> SD won by a 1000 viewers. In the actual head-to-head time slot, a first for AEW and WWE programming: he tied Ruby Soho and The Bunny WITH a commercial break.
> 
> We both know that isn’t a good look.
> 
> And as an aside, you and I often share the pulse of the more common fan, being that we both live in Fly Over country, so I have to ask: did you ever imagine those 30 minutes, a single demo, or anything being close? I genuinely thought TK was off his rocker when he made his proclamations last week. Never, EVER could have imagined that they’d be close let alone winning anything.


For sure it's surprising, but then it's a chalk up to it being FS1. But yeah they took the L but got a nice morale victory to point out. 





The Legit DMD said:


> *Old folks secured the victory. *


Grandparents been coming in clutch since the beginning of time


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

rich110991 said:


> Oh how the tables have turned 😂


*Didn't you just lose by 300k and nearly every demo?*


----------



## bdon

Prosper said:


> I definitely thought he was tripping with that one, never imagined Rampage winning ANY metric let alone multiple.


This was me. I was actually concerned that TK was hitting the cocaine way too hard and worried that it might begin to effect the product. That is not at all an exaggeration. I pictured him white-nosed, Tony Montana guns-blazing and saying fuck-it-all!

Then he actually wins the 30 min head-to-head and only loses the demo by 1000 viewers.

I just wish people ON BOTH SIDES would admit that FS1 is a shit channel and 10pm is a shit time for any weekly program.


----------



## rich110991

The Legit DMD said:


> *Didn't you just lose by 300k and nearly every demo?*


Yes, but we won in much bigger ways as you know


----------



## NXT Only

LifeInCattleClass said:


> don’t worry, she’ll jump soon and then young people can watch her too


LMAOOOO


----------



## 3venflow

Bunny will be sitting at the head of the table in their household.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450246464471539715


----------



## bdon

@The Legit DMD refuses to talk about how WWE have used the demo to claim “#1 on Monday Night television” despite losing total viewers to football.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

So AEW had the higher demo in the 30 minute head-to-head so clearly there was a winner and a loser.


----------



## bdon

CMPunkRock316 said:


> So AEW had the higher demo in the 30 minute head-to-head so clearly there was a winner and a loser.


Know THIS: when it mattered, for the first time in 23 years, MORE wrestling fans chose to watch another wrestling program over a WWE program on at the same time.

FS1 or not, This is big.


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> its time… join the winning side
> 
> i know you are still in the key demo
> 
> View attachment 110402


Hey, I´m like Luke Skywalker. I´ll never join the Dark Side.


----------



## ShadowCounter

The Legit DMD said:


> *Didn't you just lose by 300k and nearly every demo?*


Needs a touch more copium.


----------



## TheGunnShow

Do people hate old people or something? Why do you act like they don't matter in viewership?


----------



## DammitChrist

TheGunnShow said:


> Do people hate old people or something? Why do you act like they don't matter in viewership?


They don't matter as much.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

A few things:

1. This thread is mad cringe with the AEW fans celebrating like they've won the super bowl over a very slight demo victory with Smackdown off its regular channel.

2. People keep talking about this 18-39 demo, this matters only to advertisers and nobody wants to promote to the predominantly white predominantly nerdy predominantly overweight AEW audience. They are not super attractive to advertisers therefore the demo doesn't really matter.

3. Smackdown was severely handicapped in all of this. Unfamiliar channel that they traditionally do poorly on whilst AEW was on its familiar channel and had the entire fanbase trying to rally hard for a win including Tony "I don't do coke, I promise" Khan foaming at the mouth for a win.

4. This would be like AEW Rampage moving to TruTV (Another channel Turner owns) for the week, doing a 200k rating and people celebrating like it's going to be a common occurrence.

Now for some fun quotes:




Botchy SinCara said:


> I expect fully for dynamite to have crap numbers too this week and next from being on sat but they have done nothing but improve year after year while wwe keeps slumping


AEW Dynamite Ratings October 2019 - October 2021:

October 16th, 2019 - 1.014 million people.

October 14th, 2020 - 826,000 people.

October 6th, 2021 - 1.053 million people.

---

It's around the same, if that Oct 14th episode from 2020 was unopposed to NXT it probably would've done around the million mark as well. It isn't growing, it isn't improving it is simply remaining stagnant.



rbl85 said:


> It's the "AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread Part IV" not the "AEW vs WWE ratings, etc..."
> 
> People should not even mention WWE on this topic.
> 
> I don't know what the mods are doing but talking about smackdown, RAW or even NXT have nothing to do with this topic.
> 
> Sincerely this topic is now a complete shit show....


Says the fella who for months if not a year now has been talking about AEW Vs WWE.



yeahright2 said:


> Demo is perhaps default metric to those in the business. But not to fans. And even if they were, AEW didn´t beat WWE in the key demo either. whatever way you guys want to spin it, TK didn´t live up to his tweet.


This.



3venflow said:


> It is to fans who understand how the wrestling business works now.


Lol.

Meltzer started banging his drum about demographic to give AEW more victories. The only people who follow along with it are AEW loyalists.


----------



## bdon

TheGunnShow said:


> Do people hate old people or something? Why do you act like they don't matter in viewership?


WWE and Vince have been claiming “#1 in cable
Television on Monday Nights” for over 2 decades due to the 18-49 demo, ignoring that Monday Night Football routinely wins the overall viewership.

People are just extending the argument to AEW. Or should we go back to Overall Viewers now that it fits the WWE narrative?


----------



## ShadowCounter

TheGunnShow said:


> Do people hate old people or something? Why do you act like they don't matter in viewership?


Tv is a business. Networks make money by selling commercials. Those commercials are priced by who said advertisees think will buy their products most...aka 18-49s. That's just the way it is here and has been for a long long time. Basically old folks don't buy enough shit.

Now let's get back to WWE's fail and figuring out how HHH is gonna take the fall for it.


----------



## TheGunnShow

ShadowCounter said:


> Tv is a business. Networks make money by selling commercials. Those commercials are priced by who said advertisees think will buy their products most...aka 18-49s. That's just the way it is here and has been for a long long time. Basically old folks don't buy enough shit.
> 
> Now let's get back to WWE's fail and figuring out how HHH is gonna take the fall for it.


You'd think 50+ people would have more disposable income, especially retirees.

Besides, advertisers have a low view of wrestling. That's why TNT is replacing AEW with the NHL, even though it gets less viewers.


----------



## shandcraig




----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> A few things:
> 
> 1. This thread is mad cringe with the AEW fans celebrating like they've won the super bowl over a very slight demo victory with Smackdown off its regular channel.
> 
> 2. People keep talking about this 18-39 demo, this matters only to advertisers and nobody wants to promote to the predominantly white predominantly nerdy predominantly overweight AEW audience. They are not super attractive to advertisers therefore the demo doesn't really matter.
> 
> 3. Smackdown was severely handicapped in all of this. Unfamiliar channel that they traditionally do poorly on whilst AEW was on its familiar channel and had the entire fanbase trying to rally hard for a win including Tony "I don't do coke, I promise" Khan foaming at the mouth for a win.
> 
> 4. This would be like AEW Rampage moving to TruTV (Another channel Turner owns) for the week, doing a 200k rating and people celebrating like it's going to be a common occurrence.
> 
> Now for some fun quotes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW Dynamite Ratings October 2019 - October 2021:
> 
> October 16th, 2019 - 1.014 million people.
> 
> October 14th, 2020 - 826,000 people.
> 
> October 6th, 2021 - 1.053 million people.
> 
> ---
> 
> It's around the same, if that Oct 14th episode from 2020 was unopposed to NXT it probably would've done around the million mark as well. It isn't growing, it isn't improving it is simply remaining stagnant.
> 
> 
> 
> Says the fella who for months if not a year now has been talking about AEW Vs WWE.
> 
> 
> 
> This.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol.
> 
> *Meltzer started banging his drum about demographic to give AEW more victories. The only people who follow along with it are AEW loyalists.*


No man. Vince has been banging the 18-49 demo as a way of claiming “#1 on cable television on Monday Nights” for 2 decades. Stop ignoring this.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

TheGunnShow said:


> Do people hate old people or something? Why do you act like they don't matter in viewership?


As a promoter myself I personally love older people. Why? THEY HAVE KIDS. I mainly attract 18-39 but I'm getting more families now and I'm loving it. They tend to buy more merchandise, they tend to have more money and they tend to buy tickets in advance which is huge. Much easier to satisfy them also and the venues want those types of people in the crowd.

People might see WWE doing great in the 40+ demographic and assume that's mainly just single men but in my experience I have very few 40+ year old single men in my crowds. Take that for what you will.




bdon said:


> No man. Vince has been banging the 18-49 demo as a way of claiming “#1 on cable television on Monday Nights” for 2 decades. Stop ignoring this.


That's called marketing my man. I claim shit that is technically true that I don't believe all the time.


----------



## ShadowCounter

TheGunnShow said:


> You'd think 50+ people would have more disposable income, especially retirees.


Not necessarily. A lot of older folks are living off their pensions and have fixed incomes. They can't just buy the latest fad without it effecting their overall budget. They have to plan and think about their future. Younger folks can't seem to think past next week half the time.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Chip Chipperson said:


> Where both promotions struggle is hooking a new audience. Sure, there's probably new fans being made annually but not at the point where it should be.
> 
> WWE seems to just be doing the same thing and seem happy with their 2 million people watching live, million or so watching in other ways (Perhaps more?) and a large international following. Occasionally they'll try and boost things back up with a big time celebrity or whatever but I can't say a non fan would be interested in what they're doing.
> 
> AEW is just completely niche and don't seem to understand what a new audience would want. Furthermore, even if they did have what a new audience wanted they don't properly market the product or get it out there enough for people to even take notice. Tony just seems hellbent on winning over people such as the "haters" on this forum who he can hook with a big moment but then quickly lose.
> 
> I do think wrestling can become cool again, I have my theories on how we can reach that but neither AEW or WWE are going to hit that in their current shape.


It's easy to beat these two in the ratings and Make Wrestling Cool Again. Most wrestling fans have seen enough wrestling for decades to know WTF was exciting and what would draw viewers. Just do an exciting show every week and one year from now you should get results. They are plainly being lazy across the board.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Chip Chipperson said:


> As a promoter myself I personally love older people. Why? THEY HAVE KIDS. I mainly attract 18-39 but I'm getting more families now and I'm loving it. They tend to buy more merchandise, they tend to have more money and they tend to buy tickets in advance which is huge. Much easier to satisfy them also and the venues want those types of people in the crowd.


And I'm sure that works perfectly fine down under but it isn't the way things work in the States. Wrestling companies are chasing the tv deals here and they want 18-49s.



Chip Chipperson said:


> That's called marketing my man. I claim shit that is technically true that I don't believe all the time.


So TK is just marketing in twitter then, right? So why is everyone so upset?


----------



## ElTerrible

TheGunnShow said:


> You'd think 50+ people would have more disposable income, especially retirees.
> 
> Besides, advertisers have a low view of wrestling. That's why TNT is replacing AEW with the NHL, even though it gets less viewers.


Old people are creatures of habit, whose preferences have been shaped for 50 years. Just human nature. Too hard to change their preferences vs. their life expectancy.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

ShadowCounter said:


> And I'm sure that works perfectly fine down under but it isn't the way things work in the States.


40 year olds don't have kids in the USA?

I think this might be the craziest thing I've ever read to try and discredit WWE, lol.


----------



## Wolf Mark

TheFiend666 said:


> God AEW marks have passed being the worst marks in the history of wrestling. Even TNA marks weren't this bad....Truly embarrassing


I remember being a TNA mark and being embarrassing as well. Hopefully I changed from my mark ways.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Chip Chipperson said:


> 40 year olds don't have kids in the USA?
> 
> I think this might be the craziest thing I've ever read to try and discredit WWE, lol.


A) Read the whole post. B) I wasn't trying to discredit anyone there just stating facts. All the major wrestling companies are chasing tv deals over live attendance. It's why AEW doesn't do house shows and never will. Eventually WWE will drop them as well.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> As a promoter myself I personally love older people. Why? THEY HAVE KIDS. I mainly attract 18-39 but I'm getting more families now and I'm loving it. They tend to buy more merchandise, they tend to have more money and they tend to buy tickets in advance which is huge. Much easier to satisfy them also and the venues want those types of people in the crowd.
> 
> People might see WWE doing great in the 40+ demographic and assume that's mainly just single men but in my experience I have very few 40+ year old single men in my crowds. Take that for what you will.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's called marketing my man. I claim shit that is technically true that I don't believe all the time.


So why is Vince allowed to use it, but when TK and AEW fans use it, it don’t matter? They’re all playing by the same rules created by wrestling’s top promotion and top promoter. 🤷🏼‍♂️


----------



## Chip Chipperson

ShadowCounter said:


> A) Read the whole post. B) I wasn't trying to discredit anyone there just stating facts. All the major wrestling companies are chasing tv deals over live attendance. It's why AEW doesn't do house shows and never will. Eventually WWE will drop them as well.


You edited after I replied.

A good wrestling company wants to fire on television and on house shows.




bdon said:


> So why is Vince allowed to use it, but when TK and AEW fans use it, it don’t matter? They’re all playing by the same rules created by wrestling’s top promotion and top promoter. 🤷🏼‍♂️


Tony is using it to cater to smart marks on the internet whilst Vince was claiming it on television to put himself over. That's the difference.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> You edited after I replied.
> 
> A good wrestling company wants to fire on television and on house shows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tony is using it to cater to smart marks on the internet whilst Vince was claiming it on television to put himself over. That's the difference.


No. The fans and TK are claiming victory BASED ON THE RULES CREATED BY VINCE MCMAHON HIMSELF.

You don’t get to assume and choose what reason they are doing it, unless you know them personally. Only facts we have are that Vince has used for 2 decades.


----------



## wwetna1

bdon said:


> So why is Vince allowed to use it, but when TK and AEW fans use it, it don’t matter? They’re all playing by the same rules created by wrestling’s top promotion and top promoter. 🤷🏼‍♂️


It’s fine for Tony to use it. The catch 22 is are you using SDs MyTV numbers too with the FS1 numbers because in NY and Chicago blackouts rules applied and they aired on mytv instead of FS1. With those Vince still won 🤷🏽‍♂️


----------



## bdon

wwetna1 said:


> It’s fine for Tony to use it. The catch 22 is are you using SDs MyTV numbers too with the FS1 numbers because in NY and Chicago blackouts rules applied and they aired on mytv instead of FS1. With those Vince still won 🤷🏽‍♂️


That is more than fine with me. As I said, I never suspected AEW to come even close and thought TK was about to end up dead on a Coke binge lol


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> No. The fans and TK are claiming victory BASED ON THE RULES CREATED BY VINCE MCMAHON HIMSELF.
> 
> You don’t get to assume and choose what reason they are doing it, unless you know them personally. Only facts we have are that Vince has used for 2 decades.


Again, it's marketing. I can say something like "Some say AEW is the greatest wrestling promotion in the world" and only one person has to say that for it to technically be true.

Tony isn't using it to market, he's getting excited about it and pumping it up on Twitter. It's pretty embarrassing.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

That's good for AEW for winning that demo but if I was working for AEW I'd be embarrassed to have Tony Khan as a boss, he has the mental capacity of a 4 year old.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> That's good for AEW for winning that demo but if I was working for AEW I'd be embarrassed to have Tony Khan as a boss, he has the mental capacity of a 4 year old.


He's the smartest 4-year old-like fellow that I've ever seen then


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

wwetna1 said:


> It’s fine for Tony to use it. The catch 22 is are you using SDs MyTV numbers too with the FS1 numbers because in NY and Chicago blackouts rules applied and they aired on mytv instead of FS1. With those Vince still won 🤷🏽‍♂️


*I'm laughing at them actually being proud of only attracting one demo on a consistent basis while WWE is far diverse. That's why they'll never win overall viewership.*


----------



## Ameer Patel

AEW have already won by even being in the conversation with WWE. Anything on top is just a bonus. 

People have to put things in perspective, this is a two year old company going against a 50+ year old company. At the end of the day AEW has made me love wrestling again, ratings don't matter that much to me, but its nice to see the underdog winning even if its not a massive victory and can be looked at in so many different ways.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> He's the smartest 4-year old-like fellow that I've ever seen then


He can be as smart as he likes but the way he acts is embarassing.


----------



## Sad Panda

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> He can be as smart as he likes but the way he acts is embarassing.


I choose to think it’s inspiring. Don’t we all strive to be kids at heart?!


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Sad Panda said:


> I choose to think it’s inspiring. Don’t we all strive to be kids at heart?!


Of course but you do that crap behind closed doors though, gotta be professional in the public eye.


----------



## Sad Panda

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Of course but you do that crap behind closed doors though, gotta be professional in the public eye.


I know I’m just joking around.


----------



## Shock Street

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Of course but you do that crap behind closed doors though, gotta be professional in the public eye.


You try being professional after a sack of Jacksonville shneef


----------



## $Dolladrew$

ShadowCounter said:


> And I'm sure that works perfectly fine down under but it isn't the way things work in the States. Wrestling companies are chasing the tv deals here and they want 18-49s.
> 
> 
> 
> So TK is just marketing in twitter then, right? So why is everyone so upset?


Because it doesn't fit the agenda lol


----------



## Botchy SinCara

The Legit DMD said:


> *Omega and Hangman already got buried by Sasha. Don't waste my time with nonsense.
> View attachment 110399
> *



I seen you post this before ...aew is in a different place from the time this happened and more well known


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha


----------



## RapShepard

Botchy SinCara said:


> View attachment 110410
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hahahahahahahahahahahaha


----------



## DammitChrist

Botchy SinCara said:


> View attachment 110410
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hahahahahahahahahahahaha












😂 😂     😂 😂


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


>


*All I see is another L.*


----------



## Jammy

Rekt....lmao.

I'm not a ratings mark but it's absolutely heartwarming to see a bully get put in his place by the underdog.


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> *All I see is another L.*


Win the game or win a quarter [emoji57][emoji848]


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *All I see is another L.*


Nah, take the L, 'm8'.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

LifeInCattleClass said:


> what are you talking about?
> 
> head to head means the overlapping half hour / demo is the main metric we as AEW fans have followed for 2 years now - cause that is what showbuzzdaily and the industry ranks by - you know this.
> 
> you might call it bias, but its consistent for 2 years now
> 
> and if you want to bring youtube into it - well then AEW won the friday night youtube war cause wwe did nothing in that timeframe - but i think we can agree thats just silly
> 
> listen… your team took the shock L on home field advantage / and i get its a tough loss
> 
> but for now… i just need you to
> 
> View attachment 110397


Dude, you got me laughing so hard I am afraid I am going to choke on kettle chip.


----------



## 3venflow

For those just tuning in...









AEW Rampage Beats SmackDown In Head-To-Head Key Demo, Tony Khan Comments


AEW lost the overall viewership to WWE but has won the head-to-head key demo. This past Friday night (Oct. 15), AEW ran its Rampage show while WWE




www.sescoops.com













AEW Rampage Beats WWE SmackDown In Head-To-Head Half-Hour Ratings Battle


AEW found its Rampage program as the target of counterprogramming last week, and Tony Khan's company held its own. He said there was excitement to finally




www.ringsidenews.com


----------



## SPCDRI

I know its fun clowning on Roman, but lets not lose sight of the fact that while their segment tied in 18-49 viewership against Ruby Soho/The Bunny, a Becky/Sasha commercial free title match was outdrawn by CM Punk wrestling a non-title, non-contendership, non-stipulation match against Matt fucking Sydal. 

BECKY FEARS MATT SYDAL


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Win the game or win a quarter [emoji57][emoji848]


*Celebrating a blowout viewership loss seems to be the move.*


----------



## ripcitydisciple

LifeInCattleClass said:


> @The Legit DMD - now you can post the receipts from the 80% votes
> 
> we were clearly all wrong and I feel ashamed for doubting papa Khan


So..... does this make it more or less likely Vince and Fox but a third hour on FS1 now?

You know, for 'revenge.'


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*
















LOL @ that massive drop. But the Bunny "outdrew" Roman guys.*



Botchy SinCara said:


> I seen you post this before ...aew is in a different place from the time this happened and more well known


*Lol. 
























*


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Win the game or win a quarter [emoji57][emoji848]


It’s a 30-minute head-to-head now.

How long until it is an entire show?


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *Celebrating a blowout viewership loss seems to be the move.*


Celebrating total viewership when Vince himself hangs his hat on the 18-49 Demos is intellectual dishonesty, which is par for the course from you.


----------



## wwetna1

bdon said:


> That is more than fine with me. As I said, I never suspected AEW to come even close and thought TK was about to end up dead on a Coke binge lol


Honestly I have no problems with him being proud of his company. I would still try to get a set spot for dynamite and would have pushed for three hours over two shows but that’s me. I just haven’t seen a rampage yet for a few weeks that makes me go damn sadly


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> It’s a 30-minute head-to-head now.
> 
> How long until it is an entire show?


I think my chosen sentence is a snarky

"I mean when we do Raw vs Dynamite we do whole show vs whole show. Not just shared hours "

But I'm high as hell and I'm not sure of your tone or message lol.

Is it 

"Fuck off you WWE fucker you won, but lost the part that mattered, Reigns fears Omega"

Or

"Be glad they don't go after all of SmackDown, you dipshit".


----------



## CM Buck

the_hound said:


> and what's that? that i can't stomach aew? i think it's the most over hyped, overrated piece of shit i've ever had the misfortune of watching, the fans are the most obnoxious, self cert arse holes on social media, going from twitter, to reddit to the actual wrestling forums, the these so called wrestling journalists so far up tonys ass is quite frankly unreal.
> 
> so yeah i've never shy ed away from the fact from day one on how much i hate the dub.


Why come in here then? I'm all for criticism because the dub ain't perfect but it seems like you've got a personal mission to piss off its fans?


----------



## wwetna1

Jammy said:


> Rekt....lmao.
> 
> I'm not a ratings mark but it's absolutely heartwarming to see a bully get put in his place by the underdog.


They lost the demo and they lost the total viewership 

Chicago and NY didn’t have sd air on FS1. They aired on MyTV there because of blackout rules. And

For #SmackDown, the My Networks in NY and Chicago add another: P2: 89k 18-49: 17K So the full total for SmackDown is 955K overall, and 331K in 18-49

The FS1 numbers are SD without the markets of NY or Chicago that AEW is bragging about


----------



## SPCDRI

363,000>277,000
Becky Fears Matt Sydal


----------



## elo

wwetna1 said:


> They lost the demo and they lost the total viewership
> 
> Chicago and NY didn’t have sd air on FS1. They aired on MyTV there because of blackout rules. And
> 
> For #SmackDown, the My Networks in NY and Chicago add another: P2: 89k 18-49: 17K So the full total for SmackDown is 955K overall, and 331K in 18-49
> 
> The FS1 numbers are SD without the markets of NY or Chicago that AEW is bragging about



MyTV is not cable, it's a terrestrial service and does not count in cable ratings.

This thread is so sad, who cares who won? Geezes.


----------



## wwetna1

elo said:


> MyTV is not cable, it's a terrestrial service and does not count in cable ratings.
> 
> This thread is so sad, who cares who won? Geezes.


I didn’t say it was cable. It’s a fox affiliate that aired sd in those two markets because they were blacked out by fs1 there.


----------



## elo

wwetna1 said:


> I didn’t say it was cable.


Then it's irrelevant in *CABLE* ratings, move on.

EDIT: Just to expand on this slightly, the show was on 2 channels in these 2 markets at the same time - a viewer in these markets would only have had to have watched 11 minutes on FS1 and 11 minutes on MyTV to have been double counted, that's how irrelevant the number is.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> I think my chosen sentence is a snarky
> 
> "I mean when we do Raw vs Dynamite we do whole show vs whole show. Not just shared hours "
> 
> But I'm high as hell and I'm not sure of your tone or message lol.
> 
> Is it
> 
> "Fuck off you WWE fucker you won, but lost the part that mattered, Reigns fears Omega"
> 
> Or
> 
> "Be glad they don't go after all of SmackDown, you dipshit".


You’re definitely high, because I’m not sure what you’re asking of me? Hah

As for my statement, IF you are wanting clarification, it was that I agree we base things on the whole show, whether that is 2 hours or 3, maybe 1. Whatever.

My point was that - FOR NOW - AEW was able to only win a single 30 minute, direct head-to-head battle. And that may even be up for contention given this weird MyTV or whatever the fuck it is, but you and I both know AEW even being this close, whether they actually won or not, is a big story. None of us predicted Rampage would come close, and we ALL thought Tony was coked out and about to OD.

Yet here we are at a point in time where AEW’s clear B show left some room for discussion vs WWE’s clear A show. There are absolutely other factors at play here such as Smackdown being on FS1, BUT…for the first time since 1998, the CABLE wrestling audience chose to watch a wrestling show directly opposing WWE.

Henice my question, “How long until the parties take off the gloves and go full head-to-head and AEW actually picks up Ws?”


----------



## ripcitydisciple

LifeInCattleClass said:


> dang - imagine if we had somebody better than Sydal in there


Imagine if the Buy In was put on TNT. What rating would that Bryan vs Suzuki match gotten?


----------



## wwetna1

elo said:


> Then it's irrelevant in *CABLE* ratings, move on.


It is relevant when the cable network blacked out their broadcast in those markets .. so you’re bragging about no ny and no Chicago which is stupid and ignoring people went to my tv in that market 6 figures actually to watch so live


----------



## THANOS

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450267376264486914
Also


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450218385434812417


----------



## bdon

THANOS said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450267376264486914
> Also
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450218385434812417


The E-Drones will not hear of this blasphemy.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Let's talk about how Sasha did what no one on this roster besides Orange Cassidy managed to do, and increased ratings in the DREADED DEATH SLOT with no title on the line.*


----------



## .christopher.

Martyn said:


> Wow, Rampage outdrew SmackDown in direct head to head competition.
> 
> Looks like Reigns lost a step or two... 😂


Reigns never had any steps to begin with. That boring, channel changing inducing fuckboy ran off more viewers than HHH and Cena combined.

I'm not surprised people would rather watch the bunny's arse instead of a jackass.

The one I feel sorry for is Lesnar. An absolute beast who's had years of his career wasted on that untalented knobhead. Not that Lesnar gives a shit himself, mind.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

.christopher. said:


> Reigns never had any steps to begin with. That boring, channel changing inducing fuckboy ran off more viewers than HHH and Cena combined.
> 
> I'm not surprised people would rather watch the bunny's arse instead of a jackass.
> 
> The one I feel sorry for is Lesnar. An absolute beast who's had years of his career wasted on that untalented knobhead. Not that Lesnar gives a shit himself, mind.


*No.* *Just no.















*


----------



## bdon

THANOS said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450267376264486914
> Also
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450218385434812417


The E-Drones will not hear of this blasphemy.


----------



## bdon

.christopher. said:


> Reigns never had any steps to begin with. That boring, channel changing inducing fuckboy ran off more viewers than HHH and Cena combined.
> 
> I'm not surprised people would rather watch the bunny's arse instead of a jackass.
> 
> The one I feel sorry for is Lesnar. An absolute beast who's had years of his career wasted on that untalented knobhead. Not that Lesnar gives a shit himself, mind.


Geez. You sound like you hate him more than I hate Cody. Hah


----------



## One Shed

Wow I hate this thread. I refuse to go read through what looks to be about twenty pages of insanity but I want to see if i have the facts right:

- SmackDown had 288,000 more viewers overall than Rampage

- SmackDown had 1,000 more viewers overall in the 18-49 demo

- The viewers from the #1 and #3 TV markets in the US are not being reflected in the SmackDown number due to it airing on Bob's Local Access channel because of a broadcast blackout?

Am I missing something?


----------



## hunterxhunter

Tk trolling worked after all 💪
I'm really glad AEW exists 
Finally a wrestling company that can play mind games with wwe 😃


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Two Sheds said:


> Wow I hate this thread. I refuse to go read through what looks to be about twenty pages of insanity but I want to see if i have the facts right:
> 
> - SmackDown had 288,000 more viewers overall than Rampage
> 
> - SmackDown had 1,000 more viewers overall in the 18-49 demo
> 
> - The viewers from the #1 and #3 TV markets in the US are not being reflected in the SmackDown number due to it airing on Bob's Local Access channel because of a broadcast blackout?
> 
> Am I missing something?


*Something about old people being the equivalent of mail-in ballots as cheating, so they don't count. SmackDown is still the president by the way.*


----------



## zkorejo

3venflow said:


> For those just tuning in...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW Rampage Beats SmackDown In Head-To-Head Key Demo, Tony Khan Comments
> 
> 
> AEW lost the overall viewership to WWE but has won the head-to-head key demo. This past Friday night (Oct. 15), AEW ran its Rampage show while WWE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sescoops.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW Rampage Beats WWE SmackDown In Head-To-Head Half-Hour Ratings Battle
> 
> 
> AEW found its Rampage program as the target of counterprogramming last week, and Tony Khan's company held its own. He said there was excitement to finally
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ringsidenews.com


Wow!










I'm legit surprised. But it's funny at the same time.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

The icing on the cake is that wwe is having to slash their ticket prices to try and sell that show they brought Roman in for lol


----------



## Not Lying

Ace said:


> Punk-Sydal beat Becky-Sasha lmao, give Punk-Omega and that margin only increases.


and Lesnar/Reigns tied Ruby and The Bunny so how about that 🤣🤣


----------



## THANOS

The Definition of Technician said:


> and Lesnar/Reigns tied Ruby and The Bunny so how about that 🤣🤣


If you level the playing field and remove the commercial in the Ruby/Bunny match, they actually beat Lesnar/Reigns 0.25 to 0.23.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450218385434812417


----------



## zkorejo

The Definition of Technician said:


> and Lesnar/Reigns tied Ruby and The Bunny so how about that 🤣🤣


Seems like Roman failed to throw Bunny out of the club.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

zkorejo said:


> Seems like Roman failed to throw Bunny out of the club.


Acknowledged !


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> You’re definitely high, because I’m not sure what you’re asking of me? Hah
> 
> As for my statement, IF you are wanting clarification, it was that I agree we base things on the whole show, whether that is 2 hours or 3, maybe 1. Whatever.
> 
> My point was that - FOR NOW - AEW was able to only win a single 30 minute, direct head-to-head battle. And that may even be up for contention given this weird MyTV or whatever the fuck it is, but you and I both know AEW even being this close, whether they actually won or not, is a big story. None of us predicted Rampage would come close, and we ALL thought Tony was coked out and about to OD.
> 
> Yet here we are at a point in time where AEW’s clear B show left some room for discussion vs WWE’s clear A show. There are absolutely other factors at play here such as Smackdown being on FS1, BUT…for the first time since 1998, the CABLE wrestling audience chose to watch a wrestling show directly opposing WWE.
> 
> Henice my question, “How long until the parties take off the gloves and go full head-to-head and AEW actually picks up Ws?”


Lol got you, but yeah AEW should definitely try to get the 7-8 or 8-9 time slot for Rampage. TNT ain't doing shit but showing superhero reruns on Fridays in that slot


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Lol got you, but yeah AEW should definitely try to get the 7-8 or 8-9 time slot for Rampage. TNT ain't doing shit but showing superhero reruns on Fridays in that slot


They need to rid themselves of Warner in general. I don’t trust them. They are the exact kind of execs that overthink this shit, evidenced by constantly changing Dynamite’s time and date, giving Rampage a fucking Friday night at 10pm timeslot, etc.

AEW could potentially do wonders elsewhere.


----------



## Jammy

zkorejo said:


> Seems like Roman failed to throw Bunny out of the club.


lol forget about the little brothers, he got rekt by the little sisters.


----------



## Jammy

bdon said:


> They need to rid themselves of Warner in general. I don’t trust them. They are the exact kind of execs that overthink this shit, evidenced by constantly changing Dynamite’s time and date, giving Rampage a fucking Friday night at 10pm timeslot, etc.
> 
> AEW could potentially do wonders elsewhere.


AEW needs to get in on the HBOMax streaming service game. They can explode their audience numbers by being on a mainstream streaming service platform IMO.. that’s the only way to become more mainstream.
In that regard Warner is their best bet. I believe HBOMax is around 68 mil subs, way bigger than Peacock and behind Disney, Prime and Netflix. And I dont think they can tie in with those 3.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Your friendly weekly reminder that THE DEMO matters most - and always has


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> They need to rid themselves of Warner in general. I don’t trust them. They are the exact kind of execs that overthink this shit, evidenced by constantly changing Dynamite’s time and date, giving Rampage a fucking Friday night at 10pm timeslot, etc.
> 
> AEW could potentially do wonders elsewhere.


Where would you send them. Because they are legit


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Win the game or win a quarter


the game was only a quarter long ;P


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the game was only a quarter long ;P


Nope it was 3 hours


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ripcitydisciple said:


> Imagine if the Buy In was put on TNT. What rating would that Bryan vs Suzuki match gotten?


the one misstep of glorious papa Khan

be better Tony


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Nope it was 3 hours


my game was only 30min


----------



## DammitChrist

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the one misstep of glorious papa Khan
> 
> be better Tony


Honestly, I think it's funnier and better this way.

Tony Khan can easily say that he didn't even need to stack the Rampage episode in order for these numbers to be this close.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Guys guys guys….

as AEWs resident superfan, its time for some real talk

i can fully admit that

1. smackdown WON the night on overall viewers
2. smackdown WON the key demo marginally over the 3 hours

if the critics can admit

1. For 30min of overlapping programming, in ages 18 - 49 - CM Punk, Matt Sydal, the Bunny and Ruby, outdrew and beat Smackdown and Sasha, Becky, Roman and Brock


can we do that, call ‘good game’ and shake hands?


----------



## Botchy SinCara

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Your friendly weekly reminder that THE DEMO matters most - and always has
> 
> View attachment 110418
> 
> 
> View attachment 110419
> 
> View attachment 110420












If demos didn't matter there are many shows that are above both SD and Rampage but are not


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> my game was only 30min


[emoji23][emoji23] well you missed the prologue so get outta here


----------



## One Shed

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Guys guys guys….
> 
> as AEWs resident superfan, its time for some real talk
> 
> i can fully admit that
> 
> 1. smackdown WON the night on overall viewers
> 2. smackdown WON the key demo marginally over the 3 hours
> 
> if the critics can admit
> 
> 1. For 30min of overlapping programming, in ages 18 - 49 - CM Punk, Matt Sydal, the Bunny and Ruby, outdrew and beat Smackdown and Sasha, Becky, Roman and Brock
> 
> 
> can we do that, call ‘good game’ and shake hands?


Not counting the first and third largest TV markets in the US apparently, but I honestly do not care about that. I am glad they did makes these waves because:

1. I want Vince to get a swift kick in the ass. I want him to fire all those shitty Hollywood wannabe writers and truly shake things up again.
2. AEW should be winning. They have been presenting a better product overall for months.

However, I hate to see this devolving into a WWE vs AEW mark war, versus what it should be: a possible victory for wrestling fans. I loved the Monday Night War. I flipped back and forth between RAW and Nitro every week and taped the rest. I like the healthy competition. I want the stars the WWE has to be able to be in an environment that is once again great for them and for fans. I think AEW gaining ground has a solid chance of making that happen. In my ideal world, I would be watching both products and liking both. I dunno why so many people like one and absolutely HATE the other. It would be like shipping everything UPS, but then hoping every FedEx warehouse catches fire. Weird, right? I mean, I get why they hate WWE overall right now though. Even the thought of having to watch RAW right now makes me want to stick my head in a blender. That does not mean I HATE the company or the guys working there as some monolithic block though.

Way too much "us vs them" mentality when really they are more similar than different.


----------



## Not Lying

Two Sheds said:


> Not counting the first and third largest TV markets in the US apparently, but I honestly do not care about that. I am glad they did makes these waves because:
> 
> 1. I want Vince to get a swift kick in the ass. I want him to fire all those shitty Hollywood wannabe writers and truly shake things up again.
> 2. AEW should be winning. They have been presenting a better product overall for months.
> 
> However, I hate to see this devolving into a WWE vs AEW mark war, versus what it should be: a possible victory for wrestling fans. I loved the Monday Night War. I flipped back and forth between RAW and Nitro every week and taped the rest. I like the healthy competition. I want the stars the WWE has to be able to be in an environment that is once again great for them and for fans. I think AEW gaining ground has a solid chance of making that happen. In my ideal world, I would be watching both products and liking both. I dunno why so many people like one and absolutely HATE the other. It would be like shipping everything UPS, but then hoping every FedEx warehouse catches fire. Weird, right? I mean, I get why they hate WWE overall right now though. Even the thought of having to watch RAW right now makes me want to stick my head in a blender. That does not mean I HATE the company or the guys working there as some monolithic block though.
> 
> Way too much "us vs them" mentality when really they are more similar than different.


(Y) I agree with this.
I' actually really excited about Talking Smack being back and airing on FS1 for example. I'm hoping they'll have big stars cut great promos and build there stories, it's going to be 1h of enjoyable TV with Kayla Braxton and Paul E.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> Guys guys guys….
> 
> as AEWs resident superfan, its time for some real talk
> 
> i can fully admit that
> 
> 1. smackdown WON the night on overall viewers
> 2. smackdown WON the key demo marginally over the 3 hours
> 
> if the critics can admit
> 
> 1. For 30min of overlapping programming, in ages 18 - 49 - CM Punk, Matt Sydal, the Bunny and Ruby, outdrew and beat Smackdown and Sasha, Becky, Roman and Brock
> 
> 
> can we do that, call ‘good game’ and shake hands?


This is true, plus:


FS1 is a shitty channel, most likely AEW wouldn't have come to close to SD if they were ob Fox
10pm is a shitty timeslot no matter what, so props for AEW for always delivering in this time. You can bump ratings a few times, but people aren't to sacrifice every friday night to watch a 1h show they can see most on youtube later.


----------



## One Shed

The Definition of Technician said:


> (Y) I agree with this.
> I' actually really excited about Talking Smack being back and airing on FS1 for example. I'm hoping they'll have big stars cut great promos and build there stories, it's going to be 1h of enjoyable TV with Kayla Braxton and Paul E.


I have never watched it, but I am hoping this is the start of the company's trying to one up each other. A bit of that will help everyone. As long as it does not lead to total hot-shotting for years.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Definition of Technician said:


> (Y) I agree with this.
> I' actually really excited about Talking Smack being back and airing on FS1 for example. I'm hoping they'll have big stars cut great promos and build there stories, it's going to be 1h of enjoyable TV with Kayla Braxton and Paul E.
> 
> 
> 
> This is true, plus:
> 
> 
> FS1 is a shitty channel, most likely AEW wouldn't have come to close to SD if they were ob Fox
> 10pm is a shitty timeslot no matter what, so props for AEW for always delivering in this time. You can bump ratings a few times, but people aren't to sacrifice every friday night to watch a 1h show they can see most on youtube later.


yep, fs1 isn’t great - but it is comparable with tnt

it is smaller though - that is a fact


----------



## zkorejo

Don't know much about American networks but it seems like WWE is fucked if Fox doesn't renew their deal. I think they are getting those extra 500-700k viewers (compared to Raw) because it's fox.


----------



## Soul Rex

Reigns is the biggest draw in wrestling, but whoever puts woman in the main event is going to lose.

They are fucking boring and they don't draw, glorified jobbers.


----------



## One Shed

zkorejo said:


> Don't know much about American networks but it seems like WWE is fucked if Fox doesn't renew their deal. I think they are getting those extra 500-700k viewers (compared to Raw) because it's fox.


Yes, the latter part is true. WWE getting on broadcast TV is a big deal. I believe it was the first time wrestling was broadcast weekly on broadcast TV in the US in about 70 years. Even Saturday Night's Main event was not a weekly thing in the 80's.

They were perfectly fine without Fox, but it got them to that next tier of money even though the content sucks. Getting on Peacock, which is owned by one of the other big four [for those outside the US, that would be ABC (owned by Disney), NBC (owns Peacock and USA Network), CBS, and Fox] while also on Fox was a surprise.

Renewal season should be interesting.


----------



## Not Lying

Soul Rex said:


> Reigns is the biggest draw in wrestling, but whoever puts woman in the main event is going to lose.
> 
> They are fucking boring and they don't draw, glorified jobbers.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450219374577651716
- The highest Quarter was Q4 of the the first hour with *Sonya/Naomi/Shayna* the highlight of it.
*- Q8 gained viewers* and had nothing but 2min of the tag match, Becky promo, women promo packages, Sasha and Becky entrance.


Becky and Sasha at the opening hour of 10pm WITH competition, beat the 9pm opening of the show, they were the 3rd most viewed quarter (again, at 10pm and vs competition)
Roman and Lesnar didn't increase viewers after, in fact, it decreased marginally, people tuned out after Becky/Sasha was done.



Women don't draw narrative disproven again.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lol - very interesting

he called it

i can’t stand Dave - but i have a lot of time for Alvarez


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Demo matters but not in a wrestling capacity. Nobody wants to really promote to wrestling fans therefore the demo doesn't matter in this context.




Ameer Patel said:


> AEW have already won by even being in the conversation with WWE. Anything on top is just a bonus.
> 
> People have to put things in perspective, this is a two year old company going against a 50+ year old company. At the end of the day AEW has made me love wrestling again, ratings don't matter that much to me, but its nice to see the underdog winning even if its not a massive victory and can be looked at in so many different ways.


The underdog didn't win though.


----------



## ElTerrible

Playboy needs to put a show on Friday Night 8 PM EST to revive their dead franchise. If Roman can draws two million, imagine what the Bunnies can do.


----------



## wwetna1

Two Sheds said:


> Yes, the latter part is true. WWE getting on broadcast TV is a big deal. I believe it was the first time wrestling was broadcast weekly on broadcast TV in the US in about 70 years. Even Saturday Night's Main event was not a weekly thing in the 80's.
> 
> They were perfectly fine without Fox, but it got them to that next tier of money even though the content sucks. Getting on Peacock, which is owned by one of the other big four [for those outside the US, that would be ABC (owned by Disney), NBC (owns Peacock and USA Network), CBS, and Fox] while also on Fox was a surprise.
> 
> Renewal season should be interesting.


UPN was a broadcast network along with the WB in the 90s and early 2000s. They were smaller but they were broadcast networks. Then the CW was created by wb and upon merging because they wanted to compete with the big 4 and it was broadcast network, but it transitioned down to stop competing with the big 4 in modern days and really push streaming and rebroadcast rights for their series. Fox experimented with making MyTV a broadcast network for a while too by buying up old ion markets but nothing besides SD drew fans on there and they tried mma, telenovelas, reality, and other stuff. Mytv bowed out from being a broadcast network along the time SD went to syfy and has lost a number of markets since then to the point it’s something like local access like MeTV or Bounce. At one point Ion thought about being a broadcast network and using original programming like flashpoint which is why Main Event originally was a test to see viewership before SD renewed with SyFY again, but they couldn’t get it done and have since been bought, sold, and stick with syndicated reruns .

My point is that SD for the majority of its history was always presented on a broadcast network. That’s it’s true roots much like cable is the roots of Raw. FS1 is and isn’t awful. I mean they clearly invest in their product but they are stuck behind the fact they aren’t espn and can’t really get stuff like the nba there to promote it. They also still have blackout restrictions in some places becayse of old regional rights deals thet had back when FSN was a thing. SD should never ideally want to go there, but they have never been hit like they were the other day giving up Fox and losing Chicago and New York being blacked out for the live broadcast which is why they packed the show. For instance the year before talking smack still happened in the last 30 mins that was commercial free and they replayed on fs2, but them and fox compensated for losing Fox, Chicago, and NY and having to use My TV by airing a replay on FS1 which has never been done before either. The viewership of the replay has not been posted either for what it’s worth.

I do agree and think it will be interesting for WWE years from now. I mean if they ever wanted to make Raw 2 hours again, they could pitch it to fox since fox doesn’t do 3 hours. Likewise nxt numbers it gets now, if it got even 2/3 of that would be loved by fs1 which is why it was shocking when they got a spot on USA. Wwe could try pitching everything to nbcu for continuity which would make sense. Or there could be something coming out of left field years from now with Viacom and Paramount Plus needing content. A lot of stuff is going to be interesting to be honest. I haven’t even mentioned that the Hulu deal Vince signed a decade ago is ending, so he can sell his re broadcast rights to his show and he’s not locked in to making 205 Live (superstars) and Main Event anymore as Hulu requires two exclusive shows. 

AEW will have similar questions when their deal is up. Do they try to get on hbo max? Do they pitch using the cw to reach a free tv audience too since Warner owns part of cw and they have gone to 7 days of programming for the first time? Do they cut a good deal with tbs and tnt?


----------



## troyag93

So nobody going to mention that Smackdown was on Fox's second rate channel FS1? Most people never heard of FS1 let alone know which number it's on .


----------



## Fearless Viper

This is pathetic. SD was no.3 and AEW was no4. How stupid can you get?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

troyag93 said:


> So nobody going to mention that Smackdown was on Fox's second rate channel FS1? Most people never heard of FS1 let alone know which number it's on .


‘If the programming is good enough, it does not matter if the time or channel changes - they should put up a compelling enough show to attract their normal viewers’

just quoting what critics always told us when the ratings were lower cause dynamite moved nights or channels


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Fearless Viper said:


> This is pathetic. SD was no.3 and AEW was no4. How stupid can you get?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ‘If the programming is good enough, it does not matter if the time or channel changes - they should put up a compelling enough show to attract their normal viewers’
> 
> just quoting what critics always told us when the ratings were lower cause dynamite moved nights or channels


*And they did that. You lost by 300k. Sasha got 882k in THE DEATH SLOT on the worst national sports channel that doesn't exist in millions of homes. Rampage has yet to do 800k on one of the most popular networks since Punk's debut, WITH Punk on the show. Your analogy falls flat yet again.*


----------



## Ace

The Legit DMD said:


> *And they did that. You lost by 300k. Sasha got 882k in THE DEATH SLOT on the worst national sports channel that doesn't exist in millions of homes. Rampage has yet to do 800k on one of the most popular networks since Punk's debut, WITH Punk on the show. Your analogy falls flat yet again.*


 This dude still in denial.

There's a reason why the pro wrestling world is laughing at the WWE.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Ace said:


> This dude still in denial.
> 
> There's a reason why the pro wrestling world is laughing at the WWE.


*No, the world is laughing at Tony Khan for celebrating one demo after getting cooked in 7 others and wondering why his viewership is stagnant (or dropping) after multiple million+ dollar signings last month. Roman was right about that built in ceiling and floor.

"We're starting a new era, we'll bring back dormant fans, we'll beat RAW in TOTAL viewership." 


 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450129250426699781*


----------



## troyag93

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ‘If the programming is good enough, it does not matter if the time or channel changes - they should put up a compelling enough show to attract their normal viewers’
> 
> just quoting what critics always told us when the ratings were lower cause dynamite moved nights or channels


Difference between changing nights to changing a channel nobody’s ever heard about it.


----------



## rbl85

Legit DMD once again acting like a fangirl because one of his favorite wrestler got roughed up in the demo


----------



## IronMan8

Wait.

So more people under 50 tuned in to see Ruby Soho vs The Bunny over the Roman Reigns / Brock Lesnar contract signing?


----------



## A PG Attitude

IronMan8 said:


> Wait.
> 
> So more people under 50 tuned in to see Ruby Soho vs The Bunny over the Roman Reigns / Brock Lesnar contract signing?


Thats exactly what happened.


----------



## fabi1982

All I see here is TK mobilized the hardcore-squad, just look how many demo dropped out after 15mins (from one of the twitter guys). So all it shows is that he can make people watch whatever he puts on, as long as poeple „can stick it to WWE“ with watching AEW. It could have easily be DO vs. 5 random guys and it would have been the same outcome.

This is most of his schtick and he is „winning“, just not sure if tv stations will pay 10 times what they pay now in a couple of years. He knew he have to bark like a frightened dog and it worked. Just doesnt work every week.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

fabi1982 said:


> All I see here is TK mobilized the hardcore-squad, just look how many demo dropped out after 15mins (from one of the twitter guys). So all it shows is that he can make people watch whatever he puts on, as long as poeple „can stick it to WWE“ with watching AEW. It could have easily be DO vs. 5 random guys and it would have been the same outcome.
> 
> This is most of his schtick and he is „winning“, just not sure if tv stations will pay 10 times what they pay now in a couple of years. He knew he have to bark like a frightened dog and it worked. Just doesnt work every week.


*That built in ceiling and floor was on full display. They've actually convinced themselves that The Bunny is a bigger draw than Roman Reigns because a bunch of young white guys wanted to stick it to the man, dude! *


----------



## rbl85

Nobody is saying that the Bunny is a bigger draw than Reigns or Lesnar....don't be that stupid.


----------



## thorwold

The Legit DMD said:


> *They've actually convinced themselves that The Bunny is a bigger draw than Roman Reigns because a bunch of young white guys wanted to stick it to the man, dude! *


I think most of that is a joke based on the fact that you WWE drones seem to get so very, very upset over all of this. I know you can't wrap your head around any of the rest of it, so no reason to assume you'd get that either.

What a mess. Unless you're stockholders or employees, tribalism is cataclysmically dumb, people.


----------



## AEW Stan

E-drones at it again😂 Keep moving those goalposts.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

troyag93 said:


> Difference between changing nights to changing a channel nobody’s ever heard about it.


they've heard about it - it was on FS1 before and did better

but I'll remember this receipt for when Dynamite moves to TBS and does worse for a bit


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> they've heard about it - it was on FS1 before and did better
> 
> but I'll remember this receipt for when Dynamite moves to TBS and does worse for a bit


*Nah, y'all already blew your excuses for the TBS move with yesterday's nonsense AND constantly reminding everyone that it's in MORE homes. *


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *And they did that. You lost by 300k. Sasha got 882k in THE DEATH SLOT on the worst national sports channel that doesn't exist in millions of homes. Rampage has yet to do 800k on one of the most popular networks since Punk's debut, WITH Punk on the show. Your analogy falls flat yet again.*


so, you know its the death slot after 10 now..... interesting 

they still lost 1.2m +


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Nah, y'all already blew your excuses for the TBS move with yesterday's nonsense AND constantly reminding everyone that it's in MORE homes. *


this is our thread sir, we can spin it however we want


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Remember guys, the demo only matters when AEW beats WWE. We've been told since the announcement of the move to TBS that there's nothing to worry about because "it's in more homes." Don't let them bullshit you when the ratings drop in January.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1395084454121639945

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1395045755367444480*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

listen guys

changing nights, changing channel and death slots are more than good enough excuses for performing worse

just let us use them in peace when we do - and we will let you use them in peace too


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Nope. Since Uncle Dave's word is gospel, remember this tweet. He's nullifying all excuses about a channel move that definitely do not compare to the drastic gap between Fox and FS1 (in spite of which, AEW STILL got destroyed by Roman and Sasha).*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1436744661637337093









*USA, FOX, FS1, QVC, NBC, The Cooking Channel, it doesn't matter. One things for sure, two things for certain, Sasha Banks won't be beaten in a ratings war.*


----------



## Geeee

The Bunny about to send Britt down the rabbit hole?

edit: I just realized that The Bunny's finish Down the Rabbit Hole might be Dark exclusive content, so no one knows what I'm talking about LOL


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Nope. Since Uncle Dave's word is gospel, remember this tweet. He's nullifying all excuses about a channel move that definitely do not compare to the drastic gap between Fox and FS1 (in spite of which, AEW STILL got destroyed by Roman and Sasha).*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1436744661637337093
> View attachment 110431
> 
> 
> *USA, FOX, FS1, CVC, NBC, The Cooking Channel, it doesn't matter. One things for sure, two things for certain, Sasha won't be beaten in a ratings war.*


sorry, we don't listen to Dave in this house


----------



## EmbassyForever

rbl85 said:


> Legit DMD once again acting like a fangirl because one of his favorite wrestler got roughed up in the demo


Embarrassing, really


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

daily reminder that the Demo matters


----------



## RollinsHardyStyles

This thread is really fun to read, lol.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

@The Legit DMD be honest, are these the results you expected? Did you expect Sasha to be out drawn in the demo head to head and Roman/Brock to be level? 

I'm pretty shocked by how close they were and especially with the head to head Q's. 

But being serious for a moment..of course moving to FS1 is a major obstacle as it being aired at 10. Neither show did a great rating in honesty and most of the arguments back and forth have been petty - although it's been entertaining to read lol. There's no major wins here because of the many factors in play and the stats can be skewed to support any narrative. 

I would argue it's a loss to the WWE though, purely in terms of narrative. They got embroiled in a competition that they didn't need to and didn't win in convincing enough fashion (if at all) to justify it. It's just brought more attention to their smaller competitor.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> daily reminder that the Demo matters
> 
> View attachment 110432


* You really went back to 2009 like Stephanie hasn't spent the last 6 years boasting about WWE's diverse audience 🤣*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> * You really went back to 2009 like Stephanie hasn't spent the last 6 years boasting about WWE's diverse audience 🤣*


i just got it on twitter

if you think this place is wild - twitter is having a grand olde time


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Pentagon Senior said:


> @The Legit DMD be honest, are these the results you expected? Did you expect Sasha to be out drawn in the demo head to head and Roman/Brock to be level?
> 
> I'm pretty shocked by how close they were and especially with the head to head Q's.
> 
> But being serious for a moment..of course moving to FS1 is a major obstacle as it being aired at 10. Neither show did a great rating in honesty and most of the arguments back and forth have been petty - although it's been entertaining to read lol. There's no major wins here because of the many factors in play and the stats can be skewed to support any narrative.
> 
> I would argue it's a loss to the WWE though, purely in terms of narrative. They got embroiled in a competition that they didn't need to and didn't win in convincing enough fashion (if at all) to justify it. It's just brought more attention to their smaller competitor.


*Read any of my viewership arguments since January. I've ALWAYS kept the same energy in regards to total viewership > demo. We are discussing GROWTH and AEW is not growing in spite of multiple huge signings. They're doing the same number they did during summer of Britt. I genuinely do not care that more white males are watching when their total viewership remains stagnant.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Read any of my viewership arguments since January. I've ALWAYS kept the same energy in regards to Total viewership > demo. We are discussing GROWTH and AEW is not growing in spite of multiple huge signings. They're doing the same number they did during summer of Britt. I genuinely do not care that more white males are watching when their total viewership remains stagnant.*


WMMT


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ‘If the programming is good enough, it does not matter if the time or channel changes - they should put up a compelling enough show to attract their normal viewers’
> 
> just quoting what critics always told us when the ratings were lower cause dynamite moved nights or channels


Exactly.

And 10pm is a terrible fucking time slot.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass




----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> WMMT


*Not saying it doesn't matter at all. I'm saying it's ridiculous to act like everyone else doesn't. *


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Legit DMD said:


> *Read any of my viewership arguments since January. I've ALWAYS kept the same energy in regards to Total viewership > demo. We are discussing GROWTH and AEW is not growing in spite of multiple huge signings. They're doing the same number they did during summer of Britt. I genuinely do not care that more white males are watching when their total viewership remains stagnant.*


Fair enough, but I bet you were expecting a whitewash in that overlapping half hour, that never materialised. I was too tbf

For the record, I think both Overall and Demo figures are important and people just pick one or the other to push a particular narrative. 

All part of the fun though I guess - let the squabbling continue lol


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Pentagon Senior said:


> Fair enough, but I bet you were expecting a whitewash in that overlapping half hour, that never materialised. I was too tbf
> 
> For the record, I think both Overall and Demo figures are important and people just pick one or the other to push a particular narrative.
> 
> All part of the fun though I guess - let the squabbling continue lol


*I got what I expected: total viewership domination. I don't have a problem with you thinking they're equally important. That's a fair stance to take. I have a problem with Tony Khan and his minions acting like winning one demo equates them to 1996 WCW.*


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *Nah, y'all already blew your excuses for the TBS move with yesterday's nonsense AND constantly reminding everyone that it's in MORE homes. *


Why don’t you cry? I can seriously hear the wrist slitting from here.


----------



## RollinsHardyStyles

Don't quote me on this, but wasn't the RAW vs Nitro war always based on the key demo?


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Legit DMD said:


> *I got what I expected: total viewership domination. I don't have a problem with you thinking they're equally important. That's a fair stance to take. I have a problem with Tony Khan and his minions acting like winning one demo equates them to 1996 WCW.*


I think it's just part of the drama to be honest and in all fairness you've been playing into that drama all week as much as any poster I've noticed. None of this affects us directly and it certainly doesn't affect our ability to enjoy either show - which is what matters most. 

I've enjoyed reading along though. It feels like since Bryan/Punk arrived the "war" has spiced up - shots fired from both sides on the regular. I'm kinda enjoying it and think it could ultimately lead to one or both promotions striving to improve.


----------



## RapShepard

RollinsHardyStyles said:


> Don't quote me on this, but wasn't the RAW vs Nitro war always based on the key demo?


It was talked about in total viewers and rating numbers. But I think that predates 18-49 becoming such a focused on thing. 

Focusing on 18-49 and where things land in the charts is the right thing these days

Truth SmackDown won and AEW got the morale victory because they can focus on the head to head portion.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Guys guys guys….
> 
> as AEWs resident superfan, its time for some real talk
> 
> i can fully admit that
> 
> 1. smackdown WON the night on overall viewers
> 2. smackdown WON the key demo marginally over the 3 hours
> 
> if the critics can admit
> 
> 1. For 30min of overlapping programming, in ages 18 - 49 - CM Punk, Matt Sydal, the Bunny and Ruby, outdrew and beat Smackdown and Sasha, Becky, Roman and Brock
> 
> 
> can we do that, call ‘good game’ and shake hands?


You know they aren’t going to do so, because that would require intellectual honesty, of which most on BOTH sides of the aisle have refused to utilize since the beginning of this thread. 


Pentagon Senior said:


> Fair enough, but I bet you were expecting a whitewash in that overlapping half hour, that never materialised. I was too tbf
> 
> For the record, I think both Overall and Demo figures are important and people just pick one or the other to push a particular narrative.
> 
> All part of the fun though I guess - let the squabbling continue lol


He’s calling 300k more total viewers “domination”, yet when the AEW fan base called the same number of more viewers on Dynamite vs NXT, 300k wasn’t a big number.

He doesn’t want to have a LEGIT discussion.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*WWE ain't slick lol

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450447920252080138*


bdon said:


> He’s calling 300k more total viewers “domination”, yet when the AEW fan base called the same number of more viewers on Dynamite vs NXT, 300k wasn’t a big number.
> 
> He doesn’t want to have a LEGIT discussion.


*@RapShepard When have you EVER seen me defend old NXT? I'm trying to see something. The desperation is showing.*


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> It was talked about in total viewers and rating numbers. But I think that predates 18-49 becoming such a focused on thing.
> 
> Focusing on 18-49 and where things land in the charts is the right thing these days
> 
> Truth SmackDown won and AEW got the morale victory because they can focus on the head to head portion.


Stop making so much sense. You know we’re not allowed to speak on facts.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Guys guys guys….
> 
> as AEWs resident superfan, its time for some real talk
> 
> i can fully admit that
> 
> 1. smackdown WON the night on overall viewers
> 2. smackdown WON the key demo marginally over the 3 hours
> 
> if the critics can admit
> 
> 1. For 30min of overlapping programming, in ages 18 - 49 - CM Punk, Matt Sydal, the Bunny and Ruby, outdrew and beat Smackdown and Sasha, Becky, Roman and Brock
> 
> 
> can we do that, call ‘good game’ and shake hands?


@The Legit DMD 

acknowledge me


----------



## Dr. Middy

RapShepard said:


> It was talked about in total viewers and rating numbers. But I think that predates 18-49 becoming such a focused on thing.
> 
> Focusing on 18-49 and where things land in the charts is the right thing these days
> 
> Truth SmackDown won and AEW got the morale victory because they can focus on the head to head portion.


This is kind of the thing. 

AEW technically got a big win when it comes to the demo, but Smackdown also technically got a big win overall.

And we all win because both shows put more effort in as a result, so both were good.


----------



## bdon

Imagine being a billion dollar company and feeling the need to claim “victory” over a company 1/10 the size of yours.

Rumors must have been true: those Friday ratings likely WERE a big talk backstage last night at Raw.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> @The Legit DMD
> 
> acknowledge me


He won’t.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Pentagon Senior said:


> I think it's just part of the drama to be honest and in all fairness you've been playing into that drama all week as much as any poster I've noticed. None of this affects us directly and it certainly doesn't affect our ability to enjoy either show - which is what matters most.
> 
> I've enjoyed reading along though. It feels like since Bryan/Punk arrived the "war" has spiced up - shots fired from both sides on the regular. I'm kinda enjoying it and think it could ultimately lead to one or both promotions striving to improve.


*Absolutely, because if Khan and friends want to post easily disproven nonsense on a regular basis, I'll be here to shut it down. *


----------



## RollinsHardyStyles

The Legit DMD said:


> *WWE ain't slick lol
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450447920252080138
> 
> @RapShepard When have you EVER seen me defend old NXT? I'm trying to see something. The desperation is showing.*


lol, that is actually a fun thing to post. Very un-WWE 😛


----------



## rbl85

I don't say that because i'm an AEW fan but for me you can't compare the overall viewership of a show starting at 8pm with a show starting a 10pm.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

bdon said:


> You know they aren’t going to do so, because that would require intellectual honesty, of which most on BOTH sides of the aisle have refused to utilize since the beginning of this thread.
> 
> He’s calling 300k more total viewers “domination”, yet when the AEW fan base called the same number of more viewers on Dynamite vs NXT, 300k wasn’t a big number.
> 
> He doesn’t want to have a LEGIT discussion.


Yeah I don't count that as domination personally. But as we've all covered - the channel change and different time slot make any analysis kinda flakey anyway

I was impressed that AEW grew from last week though, considering the competition. And as someone who got sick of WWE and Vince years ago I'll always find a meme like 'bunny out drawing Roman' hilarious regardless of how meaningful it is 😅


----------



## RollinsHardyStyles

Oh no, I am still mad that WWE didn't have Sasha go over in that feud in 2016.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> I don't say that because i'm an AEW fan but for me you can't compare the overall viewership of a show starting at 8pm with a show starting a 10pm.


No you're saying it because you're an AEW fan lol. The chart that we're all going off of is focused on primetime. When the show starts is irrelevant to the chart


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Pentagon Senior said:


> Yeah I don't count that as domination personally. But as we've all covered - the channel change and different time slot make any analysis kinda flakey anyway
> 
> I was impressed that AEW grew from last week though, considering the competition. And as someone who got sick of WWE and Vince years ago I'll always find a meme like 'bunny out drawing Roman' hilarious regardless of how meaningful it is 😅


*How is not domination? They were in the same "deathslot" on a far inferior channel. We were told they only get viewers from confused old folks who just leave Fox on their TVs out of habit. Why is the young and hip brand still getting cooked in overall viewership by a large margin with such handicaps?*


----------



## 3venflow

@bdon I think Warner/Turner offers AEW safety and stability, even though they've fucked AEW over a few times with the moves. AEW is in no risk of being cancelled at any point in the long-term, but if they did land a deal with ABC or something, one lengthy slump and they could be kicked off.

That said, it would be interesting to see how AEW would do if available in nearly every home in the USA like Smackdown is on FOX. Isn't The CW part-owned by Warner and available in nearly 100% of US homes?


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> No you're saying it because you're an AEW fan lol. The chart that we're all going off of is focused on primetime. When the show starts is irrelevant to the chart


Free for you to think that but people comparing overall viewership of a show starting at 8pm with a show starting at 10pm for me is pure stupidity


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *How is not domination? They were in the same "deathslot" on a far inferior channel. We were told they only get viewers from confused old folks who just leave Fox on their TVs out of habit. Why is the young and hip brand still getting cooked in overall viewership by a large margin with such handicaps?*


8pm is not a deathslot

after 10 is

8 is prime time


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> Free for you to think that but people comparing overall viewership of a show starting at 8pm with a show starting at 10pm for me is pure stupidity


How should they compare all these shows then?


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> How should they compare all these shows then?


Normally you shouldn't compare them.

You should only compare shows that start at the same time.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Legit DMD said:


> *How is not domination? They were in the same "deathslot" on a far inferior channel. We were told they only get viewers from confused old folks who just leave Fox on their TVs out of habit. Why is the young and hip brand still getting cooked in overall viewership by a large margin with such handicaps?*


I was genuinely expecting a bigger gap given the difference in time slot - they've done much better in the past on that channel and they stacked the last half hour, scrapped ads etc. Also, seeing as I take both Demo and P2 as relevant - the same Demo takes a lot of the edge off a 300k overall 'win'

Maybe it's just different terminology but 'demolition' sounds hyperbolic to me. And I'm convinced WWE were expecting a wider margin, all things considered.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 8pm is not a deathslot
> 
> after 10 is
> 
> 8 is prime time


*I'm specifically talking about the 10 pm hour, as is WWE. Sasha and Roman vs AEW.*


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> Normally you shouldn't compare them.


But clearly they do for advertisers and for us to talk shit. So how would you compare and rank prime time TV?


----------



## zkorejo

RapShepard said:


> How should they compare all these shows then?


Fair comparison would be 10-10:30 pm tbh. 

The head to head is why everyone and their mothers are talking about the ratings this week.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *I'm specifically talking about the 10 pm hour, as is WWE. Sasha and Roman vs AEW.*


ah, gotcha

what about my other message


----------



## RapShepard

Friday Night Death slot starts at 8pm


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Pentagon Senior said:


> I was genuinely expecting a bigger gap - they've done much better in the past on that channel and they stacked the last half hour, scrapped ads etc. Also, seeing as I take both Demo and P2 as relevant - the same Demo takes a lot of the edge off a 300k overall 'win'
> 
> Maybe it's just different terminology but 'demolition' sounds hyperbolic to me. And I'm convinced WWE were expecting a wider margin, all things considered.


*Sasha destroyed CM Punk- the same guy who gave this show 1 million viewers. The same guy who wrestled his first televised match on this show with a 50% viewership decrease. The same guy people vehemently defended when Roman said he's not a Needle Mover like The Rock. That's domination. *



RapShepard said:


> Friday Night Death slot starts at 8pm


*Well, that settles it. Naomi is the true queen of the death slot this week 🤣.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Friday Night Death slot starts at 8pm


huh, learn something new every day

so... is 10pm then a 'death death' slot?


----------



## RapShepard

zkorejo said:


> Fair comparison would be 10-10:30 pm tbh.
> 
> The head to head is why everyone and their mothers are talking about the ratings this week.


I mean I get it if folk are looking for the AEW win. But do we now cut out the 10-11 block when comparing Raw and Dynamite ratings since Dynamite doesn't have that block?

Overall as said above I acknowledge got the morale victory on the head to head portion.


----------



## bdon

Pentagon Senior said:


> Yeah I don't count that as domination personally. But as we've all covered - the channel change and different time slot make any analysis kinda flakey anyway
> 
> I was impressed that AEW grew from last week though, considering the competition. And as someone who got sick of WWE and Vince years ago I'll always find a meme like 'bunny out drawing Roman' hilarious regardless of how meaningful it is 😅


Even taking FS1, an absolute shit fucking channel, I thought for sure that WWE would get 1.2-1.5m viewers, and make AEW look like a fucking joke.

That it was this close should, and likely is, very fucking concerning for WWE officials.


----------



## RoganJosh

So here's the story:

First AEW ran NXT to another night.

Then they beat Raw on the important demo.

Now they have beat SD on the important demo going head to head with the biggest stars on the show. This was a fair contest as both channels were cable. 

I wonder if Vince is going to sack people over this? This company seriously needs to pull it's socks up otherwise TK will put them out of business. Interest in WWE is clearly waning, you just need to look at the fact that they are offering live show tickets at half price now lol.


----------



## 3venflow

The best breakdown of the head-to-head yet. AEW won the important categories except F35-49. Biggest surprise for me is them winning F18-49.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Even taking FS1, an absolute shit fucking channel, I thought for sure that WWE would get 1.2-1.5m viewers, and make AEW look like a fucking joke.
> 
> That it was this close should, and likely is, very fucking concerning for WWE officials.


i was thinking 1.2 - 1.5 too


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> huh, learn something new every day
> 
> so... is 10pm then a 'death death' slot?


 I'd say it goes

Death Slot

Super Duper Death Slot

Hyper Ultra Mega Death Slot


----------



## ShadowCounter

The Legit DMD said:


> *Absolutely, because if Khan and friends want to post easily disproven nonsense on a regular basis, I'll be here to shut it down. *


You're more entertaining than Raw...for all the wrong reasons of course but still.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> I mean I get it if folk are looking for the AEW win. But do we now cut out the 10-11 block when comparing Raw and Dynamite ratings since Dynamite doesn't have that block?
> 
> Overall as said above I acknowledge got the morale victory on the head to head portion.


No, Smackdown won the night.

That it was ever close is fucking mind-boggling, though. We ALL thought TK was on the verge of a cocaine overdose, yet he was nearly proven correct.


----------



## zkorejo

RapShepard said:


> I mean I get it if folk are looking for the AEW win. But do we now cut out the 10-11 block when comparing Raw and Dynamite ratings since Dynamite doesn't have that block?
> 
> Overall as said above I acknowledge got the morale victory on the head to head portion.


Raw and dynamite never went head to head though. That's what has been the big talk of the wrestling world this week. 

"Head to head, Roman and Brock, Becky and Sasha, Rampage already in trouble with bad ratings, will smackdown kill rampage this week. Ad free 30 mins to head to head. Bla bla".


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> I'd say it goes
> 
> Death Slot
> 
> Super Duper Death Slot
> 
> Hyper Ultra Mega Death Slot


Stop making fun of Street Fighter II


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> But clearly they do for advertisers and for us to talk shit. So how would you compare and rank prime time TV?


If you really want to do a fair comparison of prime time TV then you would have to take into account a lot of things but we don't do it here because i would make this thing too complicated


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

lol - thanks guys

i've been having a lot of fun in this thread since yesterday


----------



## THANOS




----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> I mean I get it if folk are looking for the AEW win.* But do we now cut out the 10-11 block when comparing Raw and Dynamite ratings* since Dynamite doesn't have that block?
> 
> Overall as said above I acknowledge got the morale victory on the head to head portion.


We should if we really want to be objective


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RoganJosh said:


> So here's the story:
> 
> First AEW ran NXT to another night.
> 
> Then they beat Raw on the important demo.
> 
> Now they have beat SD on the important demo going head to head with the biggest stars on the show. This was a fair contest as both channels were cable.
> 
> I wonder if Vince is going to sack people over this? This company seriously needs to pull it's socks up otherwise TK will put them out of business. Interest in WWE is clearly waning, you just need to look at the fact that they are offering live show tickets at half price now lol.


@Pentagon Senior *Exhibit A.  This person legitimately thinks WWE, with multiple billion dollar deals, is in danger of being put out of business by a show that can't crack 700k viewers with Punk and Bryan wrestling on it. *


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *And they did that. You lost by 300k. Sasha got 882k in THE DEATH SLOT on the worst national sports channel that doesn't exist in millions of homes. Rampage has yet to do 800k on one of the most popular networks since Punk's debut, WITH Punk on the show. Your analogy falls flat yet again.*


Oh, NOW the death slot matters in WWE's case


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Legit DMD said:


> *Sasha destroyed CM Punk... *


And that's where I'll tap out lol

Time for me to re-take my seat and enjoy the theatre 🍿


----------



## ShadowCounter

The Legit DMD said:


> @Pentagon Senior *Exhibit A. This person legitimately thinks WWE, with multiple billion dollar deals, is in danger of being put out of business by a show that can't crack 700k viewers with Punk and Bryan wrestling on it. *


You're gonna lose your mind when Sasha defects to AEW relatively soon.


----------



## bdon

zkorejo said:


> Raw and dynamite never went head to head though. That's what has been the big talk of the wrestling world this week.
> 
> "Head to head, Roman and Brock, Becky and Sasha, Rampage already in trouble with bad ratings, will smackdown kill rampage this week. Ad free 30 mins to head to head. Bla bla".


This was kind of my point last night, @RapShepard . We have no seen AEW go head-to-head with WWE main roster to date, but the first time it did, extenuating circumstances notwithstanding, it DID compete very well. For the first time 23 years, US CABLE audiences chose to watch an opposing wrestling show over a WWE main roster show.

WWE went for the juggular, and I legit thought they might deliver a death blow, that Khan was off his rocker, that Roman and Brock and Becky Lynch and Sasha Banks were going to show the power of 5+ years of star building and smite AEW’s shitty second show.

And AEW not only took the haymaker, but they delivered a few blows themselves to the point that Round 1 is actually up for debate, even if Smackdown wins it 10 to 9.

This is monumental stuff.


----------



## Whoanma

Have Becky and Sasha finished destroying Rampage already?


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> @Pentagon Senior *Exhibit A. This person legitimately thinks WWE, with multiple billion dollar deals, is in danger of being put out of business by a show that can't crack 700k viewers with Punk and Bryan wrestling on it. *


But who is that? No kidding, I’ve never seen his name on here before. Lol


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> No, Smackdown won the night.
> 
> That it was ever close is fucking mind-boggling, though. We ALL thought TK was on the verge of a cocaine overdose, yet he was nearly proven correct.


Facts he should definitely try and rally for a destruction of Talking Smack as I'm sure they'll stack that to try and save face industry wise


zkorejo said:


> Raw and dynamite never went head to head though. That's what has been the big talk of the wrestling world this week.
> 
> "Head to head, Roman and Brock, Becky and Sasha, Rampage already in trouble with bad ratings, will smackdown kill rampage this week. Ad free 30 mins to head to head. Bla bla".


I mean they don't go to head in just talking when comparing ratings.


rbl85 said:


> If you really want to do a fair comparison of prime time TV then you would have to take into account a lot of things but we don't do it here because i would make this thing too complicated


Very difficult, which is why they just do I think 7-11 block


rbl85 said:


> We should if we really want to be objective


Fair


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> Stop making fun of Street Fighter II


[emoji23][emoji23] Capcom will always be funny for that.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Facts he should definitely try and rally for a destruction of Talking Smack as I'm sure they'll stack that to try and save face industry wiseI mean they don't go to head in just talking when comparing ratings. Very difficult, which is why they just do I think 7-11 blockFair


Vince is coming off A LOT like Eric Bischoff when Bischoff thought he had Vince dead in the water.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> [emoji23][emoji23] Capcom will always be funny for that.


There had to be at least 6 versions of Street Fighter II. Haha


----------



## Pentagon Senior

@RapShepard simple question - would you expect Smackdown's weekly ratings to be the same in the 10-12 timeslot as 8-10?


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> This was kind of my point last night, @RapShepard . We have no seen AEW go head-to-head with WWE main roster to date, but the first time it did, extenuating circumstances notwithstanding, it DID compete very well. For the first time 23 years, US CABLE audiences chose to watch an opposing wrestling show over a WWE main roster show.
> 
> WWE went for the juggular, and I legit thought they might deliver a death blow, that Khan was off his rocker, that Roman and Brock and Becky Lynch and Sasha Banks were going to show the power of 5+ years of star building and smite AEW’s shitty second show.
> 
> And AEW not only took the haymaker, but they delivered a few blows themselves to the point that Round 1 is actually up for debate, even if Smackdown wins it 10 to 9.
> 
> This is monumental stuff.


The funniest in all of this is how thoroughly beaten NXT was that folk have essentially forgot that AEW beat WWE before. I'd be feeling some type of way if I was HHH. Don't discredit my loss and go all the way to 98 lol


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

3venflow said:


> The best breakdown of the head-to-head yet. AEW won the important categories except F35-49. Biggest surprise for me is them winning F18-49.
> 
> View attachment 110434


Now that's a bad look for WWE.


----------



## Natsuke

Win or loss the fact that it was this close to begin with is pretty good.

Not just for these AEW/WWE war (whatever the fuck that is), but just a good sign that AEW is doing great. Keep it up!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dynamite did not do well

guess i'll blame

_looks at my excuses rolodex_

changing the night 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450465228496547844


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> The funniest in all of this is how thoroughly beaten NXT was that folk have essentially forgot that AEW beat WWE before. I'd be feeling some type of way if I was HHH. Don't discredit my loss and go all the way to 98 lol


If I were HHH, I’d have literally do the “Suck It!” to Vince upon walking through the doors yesterday.

“You want to talk shit about me and blame me for losing to AEW? What happened to your and Bruce-y’s little show Friday night? I got two words for ya….SUCK IT!!!”


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Whoanma said:


> Have Becky and Sasha finished destroying Rampage already?


*It destroyed itself with a 50% viewership loss since Punk's debut.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

oh, nevermind - Dynamite did better than the last time it was on a Saturday

0.23 vs 0.28 - so thats a WIN! 


yayyyy!


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Legit DMD said:


> @Pentagon Senior *Exhibit A. This person legitimately thinks WWE, with multiple billion dollar deals, is in danger of being put out of business by a show that can't crack 700k viewers with Punk and Bryan wrestling on it. *


Yes I see those types of posts. I also see your posts. I also see Tony's tweets and all the shots fired back and forth. Lots of sillyness and hyperbole... 

But it's all part of the drama. I honestly hope people aren't actually taking all of this seriously


----------



## bdon

Holy shit! Rampage won the 18-49 female demo in that 30 min Head to Head!?

Now that is fucking wild. WIIIIILD.


----------



## Whoanma

The Legit DMD said:


> *It destroyed itself with a 50% viewership loss since Punk's debut.*


Keep on whining, it’s pretty entertaining. In the meantime maybe Becks and Sasha end up destroying Rampage, who knows.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> There had to be at least 6 versions of Street Fighter II. Haha


Looked it up

Street Fighter 2: The World Warrior (1991)

Street Fighter 2': Champion Edition (1992)

Street Fighter 2' Turbo: Hyper Fighting (1992)

Super Street Fighter II - The New Challengers (93)

Super Street Fighter II Turbo (94)

Hyper Street Fighter II - The Anniversary Edition (2003)

Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix (2008)

Ultra Street Fighter II: The Final Challengers (2017)


----------



## zkorejo

bdon said:


> If I were HHH, I’d have literally do the “Suck It!” to Vince upon walking through the doors yesterday.
> 
> “You want to talk shit about me and blame me for losing to AEW? What happened to your and Bruce-y’s little show Friday night? I got two words for ya….SUCK IT!!!”


I'm pretty sure this has already happened but in a very subtle/civilized fashion. It's fuckin game of thrones going on over there in Stamford. 

Blaming Hunter for NXT loss is mind boggling. Vince is the problem.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Looked it up
> 
> Street Fighter 2: The World Warrior (1991)
> 
> Street Fighter 2': Champion Edition (1992)
> 
> Street Fighter 2' Turbo: Hyper Fighting (1992)
> 
> Super Street Fighter II - The New Challengers (93)
> 
> Super Street Fighter II Turbo (94)
> 
> Hyper Street Fighter II - The Anniversary Edition (2003)
> 
> Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix (2008)
> 
> Ultra Street Fighter II: The Final Challengers (2017)


What about the Alpha series? I remember an Alpha series in there somewhere…


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Dynamite did not do well
> 
> guess i'll blame
> 
> _looks at my excuses rolodex_
> 
> changing the night
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450465228496547844


*So Dynamite, the flagship show remaining on its major network in a good timeslot, did less viewership than Smackdown IN THE DREADED DEATHSLOT 😱😱😱😱 on the worst sports channel, going head to head with a Rampage featuring Punk. That's pretty terrible. *


----------



## Whoanma

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Dynamite did not do well
> 
> guess i'll blame
> 
> _looks at my excuses rolodex_
> 
> *changing the night *
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450465228496547844


You’d said before you were going to use this excuse, don’t worry.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> What about the Alpha series? I remember an Alpha series in there somewhere…


Alpha is a separate series that's the prequel to Street Fighter 2


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Alpha is a separate series that's the prequel to Street Fighter 2


Ahhh. I didn’t know that.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Pentagon Senior said:


> Yes I see those types of posts. I also see your posts. I also see Tony's tweets and all the shots fired back and forth. Lots of sillyness and hyperbole...
> 
> But it's all part of the drama. I honestly hope people aren't actually taking all of this seriously


*One thing I'll never say is Tony Khan is going out of business, because he won't allow himself to.*


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Dynamite did not do well
> 
> guess i'll blame
> 
> _looks at my excuses rolodex_
> 
> changing the night
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450465228496547844


Rhodes to the top had more 18-49 viewers than total viewers


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> Rhodes to the top had more 18-49 viewers than total viewers


Huh!?


----------



## Pentagon Senior

The Legit DMD said:


> *One thing I'll never say is Tony Khan is going out if business, because he won't allow himself to.*


I doubt anyone genuinely thinks AEW or WWE are going out of business any time soon. Not seen much of the poster you quoted but I'd presume it was tongue in cheek like most of this thread (hopefully) but who knows 🤷‍♂️


----------



## 3venflow

That's good for Saturday night when you look at their late night run earlier this year. Only MLB and college football topped them.

More surprised at how well Rhodes to the Top did myself. It's still ranking not only in the top 50, but the top 20. Thoughts, @bdon? 😏


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Whoanma said:


> Keep on whining, it’s pretty entertaining. In the meantime maybe Becks and Sasha end up destroying Rampage, who knows.


*Or it gets itself canceled due to abysmal viewership. Whichever comes first.*


----------



## Randy Lahey

Rampage won the demo head to head with Smackdown. That’s huge. Even with WWE pulling out all the stops.

The E clowns on this board take another L. Nobody cares about their geriatric fanbase of sheep


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Hundreds of posts over this ratings battle. WWE won, AEW won, Bunny beat Roman, Sasha beat Punk, young people>old people, FS1 excuses, death time slot excuses, Tony Khan was right, Tony Khan is delusional…

… I hope I got at least 5% of the discussion summed over the last several dozen pages. I couldn’t be bothered to read it all, but I’ve seen a lot of bold text.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> Huh!?


The tweet say 340k total viewers including 366k in 18/49 XD


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Thurston posted a correction on that Cody housewives number.*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450466693806018568


----------



## Randy Lahey

Sad Panda said:


> So is Fox overpaying for WWE or TNT underpaying for AEW?
> 
> I for one don’t care about all this very much but Smackdown being moved to a comparable channel (meaning not on free tv) Smackdown ties Rampage in the 18-49 demo even with Smackdown throwing out an A level type show is interesting I think.
> 
> Also 8-10 is certainly more preferable than 10-11.


Fox is def overpaying given the other shows they’ve had in that spot like Last Man Standing that did far better numbers.

With TNT, I think they are getting their $$$$ worth. They don’t have anything else that could do better in those slots than what AEW is giving them


----------



## zkorejo

Randy Lahey said:


> Rampage won the demo head to head with Smackdown.  That’s huge. Even with WWE pulling out all the stops.
> 
> The E clowns on this board take another L. Nobody cares about their geriatric fanbase of sheep


Exactly!. That's what all the anticipation was about. I was ready to accept defeat in case WWE beat Rampage head to head but WWE fans never give up and continue to argue bringing in every excuse in the world.

Before I'm quoted with "WWE had more total viewers head to head".. I think it's about time it should be universally accepted that demos are what matters the most and there's only one demo in which WWE beat AEW and that's 35-49 female demo. That's it.


----------



## Sad Panda

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Hundreds of posts over this ratings battle. WWE won, AEW won, Bunny beat Roman, Sasha beat Punk, young people>old people, FS1 excuses, death time slot excuses, Tony Khan was right, Tony Khan is delusional…
> 
> … I hope I got at least 5% of the discussion summed over the last several dozen pages. I couldn’t be bothered to read it all, but I’ve seen a lot of bold text.


That about sums it up. 

Pretty riveting stuff huh?


----------



## 3venflow

AEW Dynamite off-Wednesday episodes in 2021.

May 28: 526,000 viewers with a 0.20 rating in the 18-49 demographic (Friday Night Dynamite)
June 4: 462,000 viewers with a 0.19 rating in the 18-49 demographic (Friday Night Dynamite)
June 11: 487,000 viewers with a 0.19 rating in the 18-49 demographic (Friday Night Dynamite)
June 18: 552,000 viewers with a 0.20 rating in the 18-49 demographic (Friday Night Dynamite)
June 26: 649,000 viewers with a 0.21 rating in the 18-49 demographic (Saturday Night Dynamite)
October 16: 727,000 with a 0.28 rating in the 18-49 demographic (Saturday Night Dynamite)


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *So Dynamite, the flagship show remaining on its major network in a good timeslot, did less viewership than Smackdown IN THE DREADED DEATHSLOT 😱😱😱😱 on the worst sports channel, going head to head with a Rampage featuring Punk. That's pretty terrible. *


they did more in the demo


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pentagon Senior said:


> I doubt anyone genuinely thinks AEW or WWE are going out of business any time soon. Not seen much of the poster you quoted but I'd presume it was tongue in cheek like most of this thread (hopefully) but who knows 🤷‍♂️


lol, this thread better be tongue in cheek


----------



## Sad Panda

LifeInCattleClass said:


> they did more in the demo


He’s a persistent bugger huh?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

zkorejo said:


> Exactly!. That's what all the anticipation was about. I was ready to accept defeat in case WWE beat Rampage head to head but WWE fans never give up and continue to argue bringing in every excuse in the world.
> 
> Before I'm quoted with "WWE had more total viewers head to head".. I think it's about time it should be universally accepted that demos are what matters the most and there's only one demo in which WWE beat AEW and that's 35-49 female demo. That's it.


*Oh, so now the other demos matter? Where was this energy when Roman demolished a PPV level Dynamite in nearly every category on the worst show in wrestling WHILE going against Monday night football?*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442589567945777153


----------



## Pentagon Senior

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol, this thread better be tongue in cheek


You would hope so otherwise there would have been a lot of wet pillows (tears) last night!


----------



## zkorejo

The Legit DMD said:


> *Oh, so now the other demos matter? Where was this energy when Roman demolished Dynamite in nearly every category on the worst show in wrestling WHILE going against Monday night football?*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442589567945777153


Isn't female 35-49 still a part of key demo (18 to 49)?


----------



## RoganJosh

The Legit DMD said:


> @Pentagon Senior *Exhibit A. This person legitimately thinks WWE, with multiple billion dollar deals, is in danger of being put out of business by a show that can't crack 700k viewers with Punk and Bryan wrestling on it. *


Open your eyes wide open my OCD friend. You need to stop obsessing over live television numbers and look at the overall interest in the product. Nobody seems to want to attend WWE shows these days. Gate revenues play a big part in total profits for wrestling companies. If WWE fucks this up the broadcast deals will not be sufficient to sustain long term profitability. Go get some lessons in business studies.

Forget Legit DMD, more like Legit OCD.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Ruby Soho & bunny are as big of draws as lesnar and that tribal chief fella.......

Jericho had the funniest tweet.

"Ruby should meet Roman at the club..."

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## DaSlacker

Randy Lahey said:


> Fox is def overpaying given the other shows they’ve had in that spot like Last Man Standing that did far better numbers.
> 
> With TNT, I think they are getting their $$$$ worth. They don’t have anything else that could do better in those slots than what AEW is giving them


It's very difficult for scripted cable shows to attract viewers thesedays. For example, take a look at the pilot viewership ratings for the top 30 rated new, original, scripted cable TV shows since January 2020:

Snowpiercer (1.94) (TNT)
Resident Alien. (1.08) (Syfy)
Tyler Perry's Assisted Living (1.08) (BET)
It's Pony (0.96) (Nick)
Dispatches from Elsewhere (0.93) (AMC)
Danger Force (0.89) (Nick)
Perry Mason (0.88) (HBO)
Chucky (0.80) (USA)
Lovecraft Country (0.76) (HBO)
The Outsider (0.72) (HBO)
Baby Shark (0.72) (Nick)
Chad (0.71) (TBS)
Santiago of the Seas (0.66) (Nick)
The Patrick Star Show (0.65) (Nick)
Tyler Perry's Young Dylan (0.63) (Nick)
The Barbarian and the Troll (0.61) (Nick)
Owl House (0.61) (Disney)
Avenue 5 (0.57) (BET) 
Twenties (0.56) (BET) 
Astronauts (0.54) (Nick)
The Nevers (0.54) (HBO)
Briarpatch (0.52) (USA)
Secrets of Sulphur Springs (0.52) (Disney)
SurrealEstate (0.49) (Syfy)
Middlemost Post (0.47) (Nick)
Nora from Queens (0.47) (Comedy Central)
White Lotus (0.42) (HBO)
Kevin Can F**k Himself (0.37) (AMC)
Thundercats Roar (0.37) (Cartoon Network)
Vagrant Queen (0.37) (Syfy)

And those show ain't cheap to make. That's why those expecting AEW to surge like it's 1999 are way behind the times.


----------



## Prized Fighter

3venflow said:


> That's good for Saturday night when you look at their late night run earlier this year. Only MLB and college football topped them.
> 
> More surprised at how well Rhodes to the Top did myself. It's still ranking not only in the top 50, but the top 20. Thoughts, @bdon? 😏
> 
> View attachment 110437


Saturdays are for college football and have been for a long time. I am actually surprised that AEW's numbers weren't lower. The last Saturday show they did had much less competition. It is an fine number, but nothing special.

@RapShepard Since this is the same week, does Dynamite count a win over SD (in the demo)?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RoganJosh said:


> Open your eyes wide open my OCD friend. You need to stop obsessing over live television numbers and look at the overall interest in the product. Nobody seems to want to attend WWE shows these days. Gate revenues play a big part in total profits for wrestling companies. If WWE fucks this up the broadcast deals will not be sufficient to sustain long term profitability. Go get some lessons in business studies.
> 
> Forget Legit DMD, more like Legit OCD.


*Lol he's being serious. *


----------



## RollinsHardyStyles

I'm actually baffled at the fact that people here are arguing that WWE put Roman and Lesnar (people who they pay millions of dollars each year btw) in the head-to-head 30 mins to get beaten in the key demo by Ruby Soho (a person they had on an 80k a year contract and still released) and The Bunny. I get being a fan and wanting your favorite company to succeed, but I, as a fan of both companies myself, don't see how you can look at this and actually believe that WWE should be happy about this outcome.


----------



## SPCDRI

I think this is better viewership and demo than the last time they were on Saturday in June, plus they did it in October so there was all of that college football competing against them that they didn't have to fight in June. Growth isn't just growth in the overall top number, its growth at the bottom, too. AEW keeps raising its basement, that's a good thing.


----------



## RapShepard

Prized Fighter said:


> Saturdays are for college football and have been for a long time. I am actually surprised that AEW's numbers weren't lower. The last Saturday show they did had much less competition. It is an fine number, but nothing special.
> 
> @RapShepard Since this is the same week, does Dynamite count a win over SD (in the demo)?


 I'd say yes the number in the demo is higher if SmackDown couldn't convince folk to tune in tough titty


----------



## zkorejo

RollinsHardyStyles said:


> I'm actually baffled at the fact that people here are arguing that WWE put Roman and Lesnar (people who they pay millions of dollars each year btw) in the head-to-head 30 mins to get beaten in the key demo by Ruby Soho (a person they had on an 80k a year contract and still released) and The Bunny. I get being a fan and wanting your favorite company to succeed, but I, as a fan of both companies myself, don't see how you can look at this and actually believe that WWE should be happy about this outcome.


This. 

It's mindboggling to me. 

Yes they get the bragging rights for getting higher in demo for their 2 hour show compared to Rampage. It's a good shield to save face. 

But they were embarrassed head to head .. and they are the ones who CHOSE to go head to head, went out of their way to go Ad free, placed Becky vs Sasha and Lesnar/Reigns contract signing for those 30 mins and still failed to win the head to head in the key demo. 

This was always about head to head competition and WWE lost.


----------



## THANOS

ShadowCounter said:


> You're gonna lose your mind when Sasha defects to AEW relatively soon.


I like Legit DMD/BOSS. He's my dude. 

With that out of the way, it's very easy to see how that would play out.

Instead of WWE > AEW it would be Sasha > the rest of AEW.


----------



## RollinsHardyStyles

THANOS said:


> I like Legit DMD/BOSS but it's very easy to see how that would play out.
> 
> Instead of WWE > AEW it would be Sasha > the rest of AEW.


I would love to see the reactions to Sasha/Britt  

and I would also just love to see that feud, because I think both of them are great


----------



## RollinsHardyStyles

btw, are there actual rumors of Sasha leaving or is it just shitposting?


----------



## SPCDRI

RollinsHardyStyles said:


> btw, are there actual rumors of Sasha leaving or is it just shitposting?


Rumors started when she sat out over the tag titles and heated up over whatever the reason was for her not doing that match at SummerSlam.


----------



## zkorejo

Of all the horsewomen, Charlotte has more chance of jumping ships than the rest (due to Andrade).


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RollinsHardyStyles said:


> I would love to see the reactions to Sasha/Britt
> 
> and I would also just love to see that feud, because I think both of them are great


*I just hope both teams have fun!*


----------



## RollinsHardyStyles

Charlotte leaving would be the biggest  imo. The amount of investment they have in her, I'd imagine there is no way they'd let her go.


----------



## RollinsHardyStyles

The Legit DMD said:


> *I just hope both teams have fun!*


what are the teams in this case?


----------



## Chelsea

Oh boy, the party never stops in this thread


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

THANOS said:


> I like Legit DMD/BOSS but it's very easy to see how that would play out.
> 
> Instead of WWE > AEW it would be Sasha > the rest of AEW.


Haha! true - if every main event does not feature either Baker, Sasha or Bryan we will be in for a torrid time

maybe Darby too @The Legit DMD ?


----------



## bdon

Prized Fighter said:


> Saturdays are for college football and have been for a long time. I am actually surprised that AEW's numbers weren't lower. The last Saturday show they did had much less competition. It is an fine number, but nothing special.
> 
> @RapShepard Since this is the same week, does Dynamite count a win over SD (in the demo)?


Absolutely it does.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Absolutely it does.


Yup - if showbuzz did a weekly chart, Dynamite would be above Smackdown this week


----------



## Geeee

imagine if Riho or Darby were on this show. Moar liek SmackDONE


----------



## RoganJosh

Why does this Legit DMD guy post on here if he has a passionate hatred for AEW? 

If he tries my curries he will forget about AEW and grow a new passion for Rogan Josh, tikka masala, Balti etc. It will light a fire up his arse!


----------



## Whoanma

Geeee said:


> imagine if Riho or Darby were on this show. Moar liek SmackDONE


I would have paid to watch that. That and the faces of certain people.


----------



## THANOS

RollinsHardyStyles said:


> I would love to see the reactions to Sasha/Britt
> 
> and I would also just love to see that feud, because I think both of them are great


That would be amazing! You'd read nothing but praise by him for those two and only potential vitriol for Tony Kahn if he doesn't give them the main event and Prime Time segments .

@The Legit DMD


----------



## Soul Rex

From reading this thread I understand woman wrestling fans are delusional as fuck.

Stop fucking believing woman are a factor in ratings, they are the reason overall viewership is trash on both shows, people watch em boring divas and dip, quarter by quarter ratings are just fluctuation, but we all know viewers stay tuned to watch men wrestling.


----------



## RollinsHardyStyles

idk if you are being serious, but Sasha/Becky did outperform the Reigns/Lesnar segment ...


----------



## THANOS

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Haha! true - if every main event does not feature either Baker, Sasha or Bryan we will be in for a torrid time
> 
> maybe Darby too @The Legit DMD ?


Haha pretty much exactly what I posted above. We all have our favourites that we want to see featured. His largest favourites just happen to be in the WWE. You bring over Sasha and he'll only watch WWE for Reigns.

All the rest would be in AEW.

The most interesting thing to see is if we got Sasha/Britt vs Reigns head to head in ratings WAR. His reaction to that excites me .

@The Legit DMD


----------



## RollinsHardyStyles

huh, ig it didn't in the key demo, but even there the highest viewed sgement was a women's segment


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Haha! true - if every main event does not feature either Baker, Sasha or Bryan we will be in for a torrid time
> 
> maybe Darby too @The Legit DMD ?


* Every Dynamite should be headlined with an intergender triple threat featuring all three of them. It will dominate in total viewership and THE COVETED DEMO!!!! then we will all celebrate together and live happily ever after. The end.*


----------



## Soul Rex

RollinsHardyStyles said:


> idk if you are being serious, but Sasha/Becky did outperform the Reigns/Lesnar segment ...


Who actually watch smackdown to see Sasha and Becky? No one one planet earth, quarter ratings can be interpreted in a thousand ways, but woman are still anti draws and it's proven that their constant push is the biggest reason on overall ratings decline.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> * Every Dynamite should be headlined with an intergender triple threat featuring all three of them. It will dominate in total viewership and THE COVETED DEMO!!!! then we will all celebrate together and live happily ever after. The end.*


yay! and they can trade wins! but all will be by DQ or shock roll-up to protect all of them all the time


----------



## THANOS

Soul Rex said:


> Who actually watch smackdown to see Sasha and Becky? No one one planet earth, quarter ratings can be interpreted in a thousand ways, but woman are still anti draws and it's proven that their constant push is the biggest reason on overall ratings decline.


I don't know about that man. As far as I've seen both Britt Baker and Sasha have consistently drawn viewers in their segments. I can't attest to Sasha over the past couple years, as I'm not in the SmackDown forum but @The Legit DMD has provided support in the past to show this.

I can attest for Britt though. She's one of AEW's largest draws.


----------



## RollinsHardyStyles

Soul Rex said:


> Who actually watch smackdown to see Sasha and Becky? No one one planet earth, quarter ratings can be interpreted in a thousand ways, but woman are still anti draws and it's proven that their constant push is the biggest reason on overall ratings decline.


okay, thanks for the proof ...


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Legit DMD said:


> *Nope. Since Uncle Dave's word is gospel, remember this tweet. He's nullifying all excuses about a channel move that definitely do not compare to the drastic gap between Fox and FS1 (in spite of which, AEW STILL got destroyed by Roman and Sasha).*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1436744661637337093
> View attachment 110431
> 
> 
> *USA, FOX, FS1, QVC, NBC, The Cooking Channel, it doesn't matter. One things for sure, two things for certain, Sasha Banks won't be beaten in a ratings war.*












This one is my new favourite.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Soul Rex said:


> Who actually watch smackdown to see Sasha and Becky? No one one planet earth, quarter ratings can be interpreted in a thousand ways, but woman are still anti draws and it's proven that their constant push is the biggest reason on overall ratings decline.


@The Legit DMD - end this fool


----------



## Chip Chipperson

RoganJosh said:


> So here's the story:
> 
> First AEW ran NXT to another night.
> 
> Then they beat Raw on the important demo.
> 
> Now they have beat SD on the important demo going head to head with the biggest stars on the show. This was a fair contest as both channels were cable.
> 
> I wonder if Vince is going to sack people over this? This company seriously needs to pull it's socks up otherwise TK will put them out of business. Interest in WWE is clearly waning, you just need to look at the fact that they are offering live show tickets at half price now lol.


AEW didn't run NXT to another night didn't NXT move because their TV network wanted them to move? Also, did NXT win the ratings the last time the two went up against one another? Lol.

I do remember them beating RAW in the demo but it was one random time when Dynamite didn't have anywhere near the same competition RAW did so there's an asterisk there. 

Then they did beat Smackdown 18-49 male demo but again there is an asterisk there due to Smackdown being on a less popular channel that people clearly don't want to watch them on. Smackdown would've crushed them 18-49 like always if they were on their more popular channel.

Also, just for your own information Tony could beat WWE in the overall rating, the demographic, outdo the WWE's attendance and steal every single star they have and WWE would still continue going along. Nobody is putting WWE out of business especially not Tony Khan, lol.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Chip Chipperson said:


> View attachment 110439
> 
> 
> This one is my new favourite.


*Thank you SO MUCH for digging that up. *


THANOS said:


> That would be amazing! You'd read nothing but praise by him for those two and only potential vitriol for Tony Kahn if he doesn't give them the main event and Prime Time segments .
> 
> @The Legit DMD


*"It's been two fucking weeks since Sasha Banks has been used on this God forsaken program, and you wonder why ratings plummet when we're constantly force-fed these Young Bucks clusterfucks."*


----------



## Randy Lahey

Botchy SinCara said:


> View attachment 110393
> 
> 
> Roman and Brock losing to Punk ..ruby and the bunny


Ruby and Bunny beating Smack


RollinsHardyStyles said:


> I'm actually baffled at the fact that people here are arguing that WWE put Roman and Lesnar (people who they pay millions of dollars each year btw) in the head-to-head 30 mins to get beaten in the key demo by Ruby Soho (a person they had on an 80k a year contract and still released) and The Bunny. I get being a fan and wanting your favorite company to succeed, but I, as a fan of both companies myself, don't see how you can look at this and actually believe that WWE should be happy about this outcome.


More 18-49 choosing to watch Ruby/Bunny instead of Roman/Brock should be a giant wake up call for WWE.

Roman looks like a complete clown and Lesnar is clearly a waste of money a this point of his career


----------



## 3venflow

Punk celebrating his W. The psycho Sasha panty-sniffers are going insane in quote tweets.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450523821753217027


----------



## Soul Rex

THANOS said:


> I don't know about that man. As far as I've seen both Britt Baker and Sasha have consistently drawn viewers in their segments. I can't attest to Sasha over the past couple years, as I'm not in the SmackDown forum but @The Legit DMD has provided support in the past to show this.
> 
> I can attest for Britt though. She's one of AEW's largest draws.


LMAO

How do you actually prove midcards are draws? As I said.. Quarter by quarter ratings are meaningless without context, woman don't draw, Mark Henry wasn't the biggest draw of the past decade.

However the biggest drop in WWE's viewership history came when started to push woman agenda and putting them in the main event, and featuring them more on TV.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Randy Lahey said:


> Roman looks like a complete clown and Lesnar is clearly a waste of money a this point of his career


Except if Tony signed them in which case you and everyone else would be going crazy and saying they're the two best wrestlers on planet earth.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Soul Rex said:


> LMAO
> 
> How do you actually prove midcards are draws? As I said.. Quarter by quarter ratings are meaningless without context, woman don't draw, Mark Henry wasn't the biggest draw of the past decade.
> 
> However the biggest drop in WWE's viewership history came when started to push woman agenda and putting them in the main event, and featuring them more on TV.


*I'll be back with my encyclopedia of Sasha spiking ratings after work.*


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Chip Chipperson said:


> Except if Tony signed them in which case you and everyone else would be going crazy and saying they're the two best wrestlers on planet earth.


Why would Tony bother signing them when he has bigger draws on his roster already, like The Bunny?


----------



## The XL 2

I don't really have a horse in this race. I think current WWE is some of the most awful programming I've ever seen, and while I like some things AEW does, a lot of it is embarrassing, amateurish indy nonsense. I think AEW has slightly better programming, but I'm not blown away by either. That said, WWE has a big fucking problem.

People like Dave Meltzer would have you believe that what AEW does is what's popular. I don't really buy that, but they do have a cult fanbase who are into the product and are younger than the WWE audience. The problem is that what the current WWE does doesn't appeal to anybody. Their programming is a shell of what it was in the Attitude and Ruthless Aggression eras, hell, its shit even by the standards of 5 years ago, which was already bad programming. AEW will continue to have a cult audience that enjoys the product, and WWE will eventually fade into obscurity over the years as their audience gradually dies off, quite literally. Brock Lesnar and Roman Reigns lost the young demo to the fucking Bunny. Enough said, really.

If the WWE was putting out the product now that they were 15 years ago, AEW wouldn't even be a pimple on their ass. But they lost their way a very long time ago.


----------



## Soul Rex

The Legit DMD said:


> *I'll be back with my encyclopedia of Sasha spiking ratings after work.*


Man, Vicky Guerrero was a bigger draw quarter by quarter than John Cena in 2012, quite this shit.

Put the WWE title on Sash Banks and feature her as the main, main show and watch Smackdown being canceled within months lol.

You don't actually believe Sasha Banks is a draw compared to men, do you? You all wild.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Soul Rex said:


> Man, Vicky Guerrero was a bigger draw quarter by quarter than John Cena in 2012, quite this shit.
> 
> Put the WWE title on Sash Banks and feature her as the main, main show and watch Smackdown being canceled within months lol.
> 
> You don't actually believe Sasha Banks is a draw compared to men, do you? You all wild.


*Yes, because there's consistent statistical evidence to support it.*


The Legit DMD said:


> *Fox kept its real face of the company. Next time there's an uneducated post about Sasha not drawing, I will refer you to page 142.*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1445337926364135428




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450214815637463043

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1445488601916067850


















__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1327222805608374272*That's not even half the clip. I've got extended mags over here. *


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Yes, because there's consistent statistical evidence to support it.*
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1445488601916067850
> View attachment 110440
> 
> View attachment 110441
> 
> 
> *That's not even half the clip. I've got extended mags over here. *


----------



## Geeee

3venflow said:


> Punk celebrating his W. The psycho Sasha panty-sniffers are going insane in quote tweets.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450523821753217027


How come this picture of Sasha looks like they photoshopped an eye in from a different picture of Sasha


----------



## Geert Wilders

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450210924015595529
Who doesn’t love a Stephen smith meme lol


----------



## Erik.

Any wrestling fan who uses "You" or "We" is an absolute fucking weapon.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> Any wrestling fan who uses "You" or "We" is an absolute fucking weapon.


what if my name is Huey?


----------



## Erik.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> what if my name is Huey?


Then I'd tell you that I loved The Power of Love and tell you politely to fuck off, you weapon


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> Then I'd tell you that I loved The Power of Love and tell you politely to fuck off, you weapon


lol, fair


----------



## wwetna1

Pentagon Senior said:


> I was genuinely expecting a bigger gap given the difference in time slot - they've done much better in the past on that channel and they stacked the last half hour, scrapped ads etc. Also, seeing as I take both Demo and P2 as relevant - the same Demo takes a lot of the edge off a 300k overall 'win'
> 
> Maybe it's just different terminology but 'demolition' sounds hyperbolic to me. And I'm convinced WWE were expecting a wider margin, all things considered.


Give WWE Chicago and NY and it’s a bigger gap. They got blacked out and sent to mytv because of local restrictions there. They still got over 300k on my tv which a smaller fox affiliate from those markets.

They basically beat them in total viewers without two of their biggest audiences and beat them in demo or were right there without them. If you don’t think they easily win without a blackout the way Roman was “acknowledged” in the garden idk what to say


----------



## Chelsea

15,000 posts

It's all about the boom, bay bay!






I love this theme for some reason


----------



## Pentagon Senior

wwetna1 said:


> Give WWE Chicago and NY and it’s a bigger gap. They got blacked out and sent to mytv because of local restrictions there. They still got over 300k on my tv which a smaller fox affiliate from those markets.
> 
> They basically beat them in total viewers without two of their biggest audiences and beat them in demo or were right there without them. If you don’t think they easily win without a blackout the way Roman was “acknowledged” in the garden idk what to say


Fair point - the gap would have been wider. I won’t deny that. But the only stats we have to discuss are the official ones.

I still think losing head to head (the overlapping 30 mins) in the reported key demo when you stack it with top stars and go ad free - is not a great look. Especially when the situation was easily avoided by sticking to their usual schedule. It's more about perception than the stats actually mattering...SD were in a different channel after all. 

It's no big shakes either way though - just another chapter in the "war" that Tony Kahn is cooking up to try and create a buzz.


----------



## wwetna1

Pentagon Senior said:


> Fair point - the gap would have been wider. I won’t deny that. But the only stats we have to discuss are the official ones.
> 
> I still think losing head to head (the overlapping 30 mins) in the reported key demo when you stack it with top stars and go ad free - is not a great look. Especially when the situation was easily avoided by sticking to their usual schedule. It's more about perception than the stats actually mattering...SD were in a different channel after all.
> 
> It's no big shakes either way though - just another chapter in the "war" that Tony Kahn is cooking up to try and create a buzz.


That’s fair point too. I will say funny enough it should tell everyone why they keep Bunny and Ford on every program on tv and YouTube.

If I’m TK I don’t care if I won by hook or crook or tied them, I take the W. If I’m Vince I know that there is a gap there because those markets are his markets. They both have nothing to be ashamed of. In fact Vince should be saying how can I use FS1 more and make switching there more normal. And Tony should be saying see this is why Rampage deserves a better slot to tnt, even though I’m still having a hard time picking where to place it with NBA and NHL commitments


----------



## Erik.

wwetna1 said:


> That’s fair point too. I will say funny enough it should tell everyone why they keep Bunny and Ford on every program on tv and YouTube.
> 
> If I’m TK I don’t care if I won by hook or crook or tied them, I take the W. If I’m Vince I know that there is a gap there because those markets are his markets. They both have nothing to be ashamed of. In fact Vince should be saying how can I use FS1 more and make switching there more normal. And Tony should be saying see this is why Rampage deserves a better slot to tnt, even though I’m still having a hard time picking where to place it with NBA and NHL commitments


8pm with a 10pm replay show?


----------



## ripcitydisciple

I think I have the perfect way to end the 18-49 Demo/ Overall Viewership Debate;

Overall Viewership- Catholic Church
18-49 Demo- Galileo


----------



## Pentagon Senior

wwetna1 said:


> That’s fair point too. I will say funny enough it should tell everyone why they keep Bunny and Ford on every program on tv and YouTube.
> 
> If I’m TK I don’t care if I won by hook or crook or tied them, I take the W. If I’m Vince I know that there is a gap there because those markets are his markets. They both have nothing to be ashamed of. In fact Vince should be saying how can I use FS1 more and make switching there more normal. And Tony should be saying see this is why Rampage deserves a better slot to tnt, even though I’m still having a hard time picking where to place it with NBA and NHL commitments


Agree with most of that, good post


----------



## ShadowCounter

RoganJosh said:


> Why does this Legit DMD guy post on here if he has a passionate hatred for AEW?


He's lonely. Everyone is leaving the WWE forums, just like in life.


----------



## DammitChrist

3venflow said:


> Punk celebrating his W. The psycho Sasha panty-sniffers are going insane in quote tweets.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450523821753217027


I love this man 😂


----------



## wwetna1

Erik. said:


> 8pm with a 10pm replay show?


Friday? That may work.

Thursday is nba night but they do nba games on Tuesday after Christmas too every year. I know we’d is nhl day, but im not sure if they will do Friday games or not too. But I would definetly try to get another slot whether it’s early Friday or Saturday


----------



## Garty

I know he's everyone's favorite reporter around here, but Meltzer really goes off on WWE's shortcomings and what their problems are overall, when comparing this past weekends ratings between the two companies. There are really no surprises, but he talks in a very distinctive 'matter of fact' tone. Yes, it's too long for most users to sit through the entire rant, but if you only listen to one clip of him this week, it should be this one.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Garty said:


> I know he's everyone's favorite reporter around here, but Meltzer really goes off on WWE's shortcomings and what their problems are overall, when comparing this past weekends ratings between the two companies. There are really no surprises, but he talks in a very distinctive 'matter of fact' tone. Yes, it's too long for most users to sit through the entire rant, but if you only listen to one clip of him this week, it should be this one.


He'll be accused of being on AEW's payroll but he's right on here. Too many old, out of touch, white guys in the kitchen trying to force feed their tired, used up family recipes down everyone else's throat when we're just sick of the menu.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Booker T basically said the same thing Bischoff said, so this is not really thread worthy, but still valid.*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450517260280471559


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Booker T basically said the same thing Bischoff said, so this is not really thread worthy, but still valid.*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450517260280471559


‘don’t win your way, win our way’

I’d be worried if i thought TK gave 2 fucks about any of these guys’s opinions


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ‘don’t win your way, win our way’
> 
> I’d be worried if i thought TK gave 2 fucks about any of these guys’s opinions


* If he's "killing the demo" at 450,000 viewers, will you still say he's winning?*


----------



## Randy Lahey

ShadowCounter said:


> He'll be accused of being on AEW's payroll but he's right on here. Too many old, out of touch, white guys in the kitchen trying to force feed their tired, used up family recipes down everyone else's throat when we're just sick of the menu.


White guys? WWE's problem is pushing too many mediocre black guys IMO that don't connect with their core audience


----------



## bdon

RollinsHardyStyles said:


> I'm actually baffled at the fact that people here are arguing that WWE put Roman and Lesnar (people who they pay millions of dollars each year btw) in the head-to-head 30 mins to get beaten in the key demo by Ruby Soho (a person they had on an 80k a year contract and still released) and The Bunny. I get being a fan and wanting your favorite company to succeed, but I, as a fan of both companies myself, don't see how you can look at this and actually believe that WWE should be happy about this outcome.


Yeah, I don’t get it either. This shit was wayyyyy fucking closer than I ever thought it would be as an AEW fan who is willingly giving the W to Smackdown. Even with the different channel, they should have beat the living shit out of Rampage.


The XL 2 said:


> I don't really have a horse in this race. I think current WWE is some of the most awful programming I've ever seen, and while I like some things AEW does, a lot of it is embarrassing, amateurish indy nonsense. I think AEW has slightly better programming, but I'm not blown away by either. That said, WWE has a big fucking problem.
> 
> People like Dave Meltzer would have you believe that what AEW does is what's popular. I don't really buy that, but they do have a cult fanbase who are into the product and are younger than the WWE audience. The problem is that what the current WWE does doesn't appeal to anybody. Their programming is a shell of what it was in the Attitude and Ruthless Aggression eras, hell, its shit even by the standards of 5 years ago, which was already bad programming. AEW will continue to have a cult audience that enjoys the product, and WWE will eventually fade into obscurity over the years as their audience gradually dies off, quite literally. Brock Lesnar and Roman Reigns lost the young demo to the fucking Bunny. Enough said, really.
> 
> If the WWE was putting out the product now that they were 15 years ago, AEW wouldn't even be a pimple on their ass. But they lost their way a very long time ago.


All of this.

Glad to see I’m not the only one trying to be honest in the spirit of discussion here.


----------



## RapShepard

Randy Lahey said:


> White guys? WWE's problem is pushing too many mediocre black guys IMO that don't connect with their core audience


Which black guys? And who should be in these black guys spots?


----------



## Randy Lahey

I'd say letting Adam Cole and Malachi Black walk, while pushing black talent like Lashley, MVP was a mistake. Cameron Grimes is more over, and more of a character, than just about any black talent Raw currently uses. I think pushing women's wrestling, and black wrestling has made the show far less popular. There's never been a big black audience for wrestling. If WWE was going to target minority audiences, they should push far more latin stars since wrestling is far more popular in Mexican and Latino culture than black.


----------



## RollinsHardyStyles

Randy Lahey said:


> White guys? WWE's problem is pushing too many mediocre black guys IMO that don't connect with their core audience


you do realize that the person you quoted was talking about WWE execs and not the talent, right?

Not that you are right about the talent, they're literally just pushing the third black guy as their top champion, and even then you could argue that all three of the black WWE champions held the lesser of the main titles (Kofi vs Seth and Lashley/Big E vs Roman). And I'd argue all three of these guys were super over when they got the title anyway, so I don't see your point.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Randy Lahey said:


> White guys? WWE's problem is pushing too many mediocre black guys IMO that don't connect with their core audience


I was talking about Vince and his yes men, not the wrestlers.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Which black guys? And who should be in these black guys spots?


*Just FYI, you're dealing with someone who wants to make America "great again." Just keep scrolling.*


----------



## RapShepard

Randy Lahey said:


> I'd say letting Adam Cole and Malachi Black walk, while pushing black talent like Lashley, MVP was a mistake. Cameron Grimes is more over, and more of a character, than just about any black talent Raw currently uses. I think pushing women's wrestling, and black wrestling has made the show far less popular. There's never been a big black audience for wrestling. If WWE was going to target minority audiences, they should push far more latin stars since wrestling is far more popular in Mexican and Latino culture than black.


Wasn't Cole one of the featured stars on the NXT that was losing to AEW, that's also ignoring they tried to re-sign him? Is there any proof Black is some big draw and Grimes is liked sure but is he a draw. It's weird to hear you big up Cameron Grimes as a character that's over, while ignoring how over The New Day, Sasha, Bianca, The Hurt Business as a unit, and The Street Profits are. 

And you know how wrestling could grow in the black community, maybe just maybe by actually utilizing black stars that warrant it better. It's just funny to watch white males act as if they're being done a disservice and treated wrong if God forbid anybody else gets some shine. And are you really not going to acknowledge they've been desperately trying and failing to find the next Mysterio since like 2010 lol.


----------



## Randy Lahey

RollinsHardyStyles said:


> you do realize that the person you quoted was talking about WWE execs and not the talent, right?
> 
> Not that you are right about the talent, they're literally just pushing the third black guy as their top champion, and even then you could argue that all three of the black WWE champions held the lesser of the main titles (Kofi vs Seth and Lashley/Big E vs Roman). And I'd argue all three of these guys were super over when they got the title anyway, so I don't see your point.


None of those guys were ever stars The fact there's so many black faces on a show that has a tiny black audience to begin with is an issue. Wrestling is about making connections to the fans that watch your product. Trying to sell guys like Lashley, Big E, Kofi, MVP, Street Profits, to a mostly white/latino audience is simply poor marketing.

There's a reason BET doesn't put on tv shows with mostly white casts. They know their audience. WWE doesn't.


----------



## Randy Lahey

ShadowCounter said:


> I was talking about Vince and his yes men, not the wrestlers.


Vince's race has nothing to do with whether he can make a good wrestling show. I'd argue WWE is far too woke, and too black to appeal to the masses.


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> *Just FYI, you're dealing with someone who wants to make America "great again." Just keep scrolling.*


As annoying as it is, it's actually kind of amusing to see so many white males take it personally that they aren't dominating entertainment as hard as they're used to lol. They're so used to being the default when they aren't it's frazzling to them.


----------



## Randy Lahey

The wrestling business is the same as any other entertainment business. You have to know your customers If I ran a rap music label, I'm not going to promote white rappers. I know my base. If I ran a wrestling promotion, I'm certainly not going to overly promote black acts when most of my customers are white latino.

I'd argue AEW has a good mix of talent that represents their customer base. They have mostly white and latino acts, and that segment makes up the vast majority of wrestling audiences. As it always has been. WWE is far over represented of black acts, and I think it is hurting them.


----------



## THANOS

The Legit DMD said:


> *Just FYI, you're dealing with someone who wants to make America "great again." Just keep scrolling.*


I can't believe what this thread has turned into the past couple pages.

Bickering about ratings is one thing, but shitting on Black people receiving pushes is ridiculous.

I agree that you can call a spade a spade, and skin colour shouldn't matter, but MVP is great on the mic, Lashley is a beast in the ring, Big E has loads of charisma and is good in the ring and Sasha is great at everything.

Granted I don't watch WWE, so I will ask what mediocre black talents are being pushed in WWE?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

THANOS said:


> I can't believe what this thread has turned into the past couple pages.
> 
> Bickering about ratings is one thing, but shitting on Black people receiving pushes is ridiculous.
> 
> I agree that you can call a spade a spade, and skin colour shouldn't matter, but MVP is great on the mic, Lashley is a beast in the ring, Big E has loads of charisma and is good in the ring and Sasha is great at everything.
> 
> Granted I don't watch WWE, so I will ask what mediocre black talents are being pushed in WWE?


*None tbh. Lashley lacks personality, but that's why he has MVP. He delivers in the ring. Big E definitely isn't mediocre. Naomi just peaked Smackdown viewership, Montez impressed WWE executives with his match against Roman so much that they've considered a solo push for him, Bianca has a female wrestler of the year argument, and I spent the last 10 pages talking about Sasha's accolades.*


----------



## DaSlacker

It doesn't matter if your black or white.... 😁.... 

In all seriousness, WWE's biggest own goal was not holding on to Miro, Black and Cole. Yet desperately trying to build something from Humberto, Azeez, Ryker, Dominik, Omos, Boogs, Corbin, Theory, Retribution. There is such a difference in talent level there.


----------



## RapShepard

Randy Lahey said:


> The wrestling business is the same as any other entertainment business. You have to know your customers If I ran a rap music label, I'm not going to promote white rappers. I know my base. If I ran a wrestling promotion, I'm certainly not going to overly promote black acts when most of my customers are white latino.
> 
> I'd argue AEW has a good mix of talent that represents their customer base. They have mostly white and latino acts, and that segment makes up the vast majority of wrestling audiences. As it always has been. WWE is far over represented of black acts, and I think it is hurting them.


Well you'd be a terrible fucking rap label executive, white rappers make shit tons of money because shockingly white people listen to rap and they especially like the white rappers they can relate to. Eminem, Post Malone, Yelawolf, The Beastie Boys, ICP, and Jack Harlow don't move units because they have the black demographics on lock.

You're certainly making a fine argument that a lot of white males are so entitled that anything that isn't aggressively white male is off putting lol. Fuck businesses trying to appeal to more folk, nope keep it solely aimed at white males.


----------



## DammitChrist

I'd honestly rate Bianca Belair as 2nd place for Female Wrestler of the Year in WWE (even though I don't like her) behind Charlotte Flair atm.


----------



## RapShepard

DaSlacker said:


> It doesn't matter if your black or white.... ....
> 
> In all seriousness, WWE's biggest own goal was not holding on to Miro, Black and *Cole*. Yet desperately trying to build something from Humberto, Azeez, Ryker, Dominik, Omos, Boogs, Corbin, Theory, Retribution. There is such a difference in talent level there.


Are we really going to ignore Cole was not only NXT Champion up until July when NXT was losing to Dynamite, but even when he wasn't he was a featured star?


----------



## RollinsHardyStyles

DammitChrist said:


> I'd honestly rate Bianca Belair as 2nd place for Female Wrestler of the Year in WWE (even though I don't like her) behind Charlotte Flair atm.


I was with you until the last two words  I was certain you were gonna say Sasha, lol


----------



## RollinsHardyStyles

RapShepard said:


> Are we really going to ignore Cole was not only NXT Champion up until July 20th when NXT was losing to Dynamite, but even when he wasn't he was a featured star?


That is a fair point but imo it was more about how WWE marketed NXT rather than one particular person that was responsible for the ratings. They had a good thing going pushing NXT as the third brand in 2019, but they didn't follow through on that and look at where NXT is now.

I definitely think that WWE wasted a lot of potential main features on the main roster in guys like Cole, Black, Rusev, Andrade and even on their current roster Owens, Zayn, Lee, Cesaro, Shinsuke to some extent. In general, the turnover from NXT stars to main roster stars since 2014 has been abysmal imo.


----------



## DammitChrist

RollinsHardyStyles said:


> I was with you until the last two words  I was certain you were gonna say Sasha, lol


I enjoy Sasha Banks, but to be fair; she did miss about a third of the year 

I'd say the same about Becky Lynch who missed over half of the year, and about Bayley who'll miss most of the 2nd half of this year. I also enjoy both those women too.

I have Charlotte Flair as 1st place because her matches have consistently been really good ever since her return after Wrestlemania 37.

I guess Rhea Ripley would be 3rd place for me then!


----------



## Randy Lahey

THANOS said:


> I agree that you can call a spade a spade, and skin colour shouldn't matter, but MVP is great on the mic, Lashley is a beast in the ring, Big E has loads of charisma and is good in the ring and Sasha is great at everything.
> 
> Granted I don't watch WWE, so I will ask what mediocre black talents are being pushed in WWE?



Adam Cole, Malachi Black, Bryan Danielson, Rusev, Andrade are 5 guys WWE has let walk in the last couple of years. I would argue those 5 are far better and far more over than any of the black acts (Lashley, MVP, Street Profits, Kofi, Big E) that essentially replaced them. The WWE made a decision to push the black acts (and knowing Stephanie probably was due to the social woke popularity ofBLM, - see the decision and marketing of Banks/Bianca at WM as first ever black main event at WMetc), and let the former walk. Now, its entirely possible and probable that WWE's ratings would continue to tank even if they are pushing mediocre white talent. It probably would. But what I would argue is that WWE has even less of a chance to stop the ratings bleed if most of their cast is not representative of their viewing audience.

I am not going to factor in women's wrestling because it doesn't draw regardless of the race of the girls, so Sasha/Bianca whatever. But with the main male roster, that roster most of the viewing audience tunes in to see, if you don't have a cast that reflects your audience, you will struggle to connect.

TK's done a great job of filling the AEW roster with the right mix to maximize the 18-49. He also recognized early on that pushing tiny minority segment acts (like the Japanese women) was a loser a quickly dumped it. With WWE, Vince thinks pushing minorities in front of a majority audience is good business. It's not. Know your customers. Business 101


----------



## RollinsHardyStyles

DammitChrist said:


> I enjoy Sasha Banks, but to be fair; she did miss about a third of the year
> 
> I'd say the same about Becky Lynch who missed over half of the year, and about Bayley who'll miss most of the 2nd half of this year. I also enjoy both those women too.
> 
> I have Charlotte Flair as 1st place because her matches have consistently been really good ever since her return after Wrestlemania 37.
> 
> I guess Rhea Ripley would be 3rd place for me then!


Charlotte missed a fair bit of time as well iirc. But I tend to be a bit harsh on Charlotte because I am a bit tired of her push, and don't really find most of her matches outstanding. But I haven't been following wrestling close enough to make a ranking for this year. I just know that Charlotte's matchguide on cagematch has much more stuff in the reds and yellows than in the greens and that just makes me


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Hey, everybody what's going on in this thre-


----------



## RapShepard

RollinsHardyStyles said:


> That is a fair point but imo it was more about how WWE marketed NXT rather than one particular person that was responsible for the ratings. They had a good thing going pushing NXT as the third brand in 2019, but they didn't follow through on that and look at where NXT is now.
> 
> I definitely think that WWE wasted a lot of potential main features on the main roster in guys like Cole, Black, Rusev, Andrade and even on their current roster Owens, Zayn, Lee, Cesaro, Shinsuke to some extent. In general, the turnover from NXT stars to main roster stars since 2014 has been abysmal imo.


I think what hurt NXT is that AEW is an actual alternative. A lot of the appeal for NXT was "well at least the old man isn't touching it, this is for fans like" that's something hardcore fans care about. AEW killed that appeal, because it actually truly is separate from WWE and Vince, and it's still filling that gap of aiming at hardcore fans.

On paper NXT should've beat AEW, because they had the WWE machine. But reality was what do fans that wanted an escape from Vince need HHH's "kind of not WWE" brand when they can get "actually not WWE" with some big names and exciting new prospects. 

As far as NXT Star to main roster. I think the nature of NXT where folk debut, get shot to the title then leave isn't really feasible on the main roster. It's more can you secure a spot somewhere. Was Black a miss as a midcarder bare minimum sure, Andrade probably not. He wasn't exactly over as US champ


----------



## wwetna1

Randy Lahey said:


> I'd say letting Adam Cole and Malachi Black walk, while pushing black talent like Lashley, MVP was a mistake. Cameron Grimes is more over, and more of a character, than just about any black talent Raw currently uses. I think pushing women's wrestling, and black wrestling has made the show far less popular. There's never been a big black audience for wrestling. If WWE was going to target minority audiences, they should push far more latin stars since wrestling is far more popular in Mexican and Latino culture than black.


Pushing black and female talent got them a billion dollar tv deal as Fox’s audience skews you guessed it black and female and has since the days of Martin, Living Color, Living Single, NY Undercover, Roc, Empire, Starr

Pushing female made them millions with E with Total Divas and Bellas. And those women are sisters and moms who buy their girls stuff which you guessed it leads to record revenue 😂

hell pushing monitories got them the Saudi 50m a show deal


----------



## RapShepard

Randy Lahey said:


> *Adam Cole*, Malachi Black, Bryan Danielson, Rusev, Andrade are 5 guys WWE has let walk in the last couple of years. *I would argue those 5 are far better and far more over than any of the black acts (Lashley, MVP, Street Profits, Kofi, Big E) that essentially replaced them.* The WWE made a decision to push the black acts (and knowing Stephanie probably was due to the social woke popularity ofBLM, - see the decision and marketing of Banks/Bianca at WM as first ever black main event at WMetc), and let the former walk. Now, its entirely possible and probable that WWE's ratings would continue to tank even if they are pushing mediocre white talent. It probably would. But what I would argue is that WWE has even less of a chance to stop the ratings bleed if most of their cast is not representative of their viewing audience.


So you're just going to actively ignore that Cole was champion from the debut of Dynamite until July 2020 and NXT was consistently losing to Dynamite. 

Cole- loses to Dynamite weekly and gets cheers= Over

The New Day- sells a fuck ton of merchandise, gets opportunities outside the company, sold fucking cereal, gets cheered by fans = less over than Cole. 

Alrighty then. 

Hell Dynamite has all those exciting white wrestlers (minus Andrade) fans love that you named, Raw has some of those mediocre black talents that fans don't want to see. Yet Dynamite isn't beating the piss out of Raw in demo and viewership on a weekly basis yet.


----------



## RollinsHardyStyles

RapShepard said:


> I think what hurt NXT is that AEW is an actual alternative. A lot of the appeal for NXT was "well at least the old man isn't touching it, this is for fans like" that's something hardcore fans care about. AEW killed that appeal, because it actually truly is separate from WWE and Vince, and it's still filling that gap of aiming at hardcore fans.
> 
> On paper NXT should've beat AEW, because they had the WWE machine. But reality was what do fans that wanted an escape from Vince need HHH's "kind of not WWE" brand when they can get "actually not WWE" with some big names and exciting new prospects.
> 
> As far as NXT Star to main roster. I think the nature of NXT where folk debut, get shot to the title then leave isn't really feasible on the main roster. It's more can you secure a spot somewhere. Was Black a miss as a midcarder bare minimum sure, Andrade probably not. He wasn't exactly over as US champ


AEW being an actual alternative is a fair point, but I do think there is still a place for NXT pre 2.0 days to have an actually solid audience. And yeah, I agree that not everyone that was a main eventer on NXT can be a main eventer on the main roster, but just the inconsistency between the characters and their booking down in NXT compared to the main roster was glaring. The biggest example of this was Vince bringing up Gargano and Ciampa as a tag team for a few weeks while they were having a blood feud down in NXT. It just didn't seem like main roster execs were actually following what was happening in NXT a lot of times.


----------



## RapShepard

RollinsHardyStyles said:


> AEW being an actual alternative is a fair point, but I do think there is still a place for NXT pre 2.0 days to have an actually solid audience. And yeah, I agree that not everyone that was a main eventer on NXT can be a main eventer on the main roster, but just the inconsistency between the characters and their booking down in NXT compared to the main roster was glaring. The biggest example of this was Vince bringing up Gargano and Ciampa as a tag team for a few weeks while they were having a blood feud down in NXT. It just didn't seem like main roster execs were actually following what was happening in NXT a lot of times.


That example is dumb for sure and stuff like The Ascension was a butchering. I got more to say but I've derailed enough with the other conversation lol


----------



## Randy Lahey

Its clear that based on Adam Cole's reaction on Dynamite, that WWE had no idea what do do with him on NXT. The fact demos are this close only 2 years into AEW's run should tell you that WWE has no idea how to connect to their 18-49 audience anymore, its simply a slow bleed year after year.

Pushing Roman started the steep decline in 2014 and onward. Ratings show this clearly.

Its just my own politically incorrect opinion of course, but I think Vince letting more talented guys walk to push primarily black acts will be another kill shot. Meanwhile, AEW will benefit by simply following common business sense by pushing guys that reflect their fanbase. If you think Big E can generate the same type of babyface reactions from a wrestling audience as say a Hangman Page can, you're fooling yourself. 

Its the same concept as Hollywood making movies. Movies with a primarily black cast, do lower numbers because they appeal to smaller demos. WWE thinking they can do this buck the trend, is foolish.

WWEtna makes a good point though. If this was a calculated move by Vince to push black acts in order to get a big Fox deal, then he's playing 4d chess knowing the actual ratings don't matter since the money has already been paid.


----------



## RapShepard

Randy Lahey said:


> Its clear that based on Adam Cole's reaction on Dynamite, that WWE had no idea what do do with him on NXT. The fact demos are this close only 2 years into AEW's run should tell you that WWE has no idea how to connect to their 18-49 audience anymore, its simply a slow bleed year after year.


So we ignore the 9 months of ratings losses to Dynamite under Cole's reign as NXT champion, because WWE. Instead we say he's a star and draw based on the mostly stagnant AEW ratings that haven't moved much despite Cole, Bryan, and Punk coming in?



> Pushing Roman started the steep decline in 2014 and onward. Ratings show this clearly.
> 
> *Its just my own politically incorrect opinion of course, but I think Vince letting more talented guys walk to push primarily black acts will be another kill shot. Meanwhile, AEW will benefit by simply following common business sense by pushing guys that reflect their fanbase. If you think Big E can generate the same type of babyface reactions from a wrestling audience as say a Hangman Page can, you're fooling yourself. *


*

I like Hangman and he's over as fuck no doubt. But again we're going to ignore all the money The New Day makes, mainstream opportunities they've got outside of WWE, and the cheers they get to say they can't possibly deserve a push and get over. All to big up Page who while he gets a great fucking reaction, hasn't had to prove shit as a draw. We haven't even heard about him being killer for merch, but we know OC and Britt move shirts at least. 




Its the same concept as Hollywood making movies. Movies with a primarily black cast, do lower numbers because they appeal to smaller demos. WWE thinking they can do this buck the trend, is foolish.

WWEtna makes a good point though. If this was a calculated move by Vince to push black acts in order to get a big Fox deal, then he's playing 4d chess knowing the actual ratings don't matter since the money has already been paid.

Click to expand...

So as I said above you think a lot of white males are entitled and get upset when entertainment isn't aggressively white male? And nobody should ever try to offer diversity in entertainment?*


----------



## JasmineAEW




----------



## 3venflow

MJF savage on all fronts as usual.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450635781018566658


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Randy Lahey said:


> The wrestling business is the same as any other entertainment business. You have to know your customers If I ran a rap music label, I'm not going to promote white rappers. I know my base. If I ran a wrestling promotion, I'm certainly not going to overly promote black acts when most of my customers are white latino.
> 
> I'd argue AEW has a good mix of talent that represents their customer base. They have mostly white and latino acts, and that segment makes up the vast majority of wrestling audiences. As it always has been. WWE is far over represented of black acts, and I think it is hurting them.


How many days have you spent in the wrestling industry?

Wrestling fans in my experience aren't racially motivated. They don't really care if someone is black, asian, middle eastern, white, latino etc as long as the person is actually entertaining and deserving of their spot.

WWE has a lot of black talent in main event positions? This might shock you but perhaps those people might deserve their spots...


----------



## AuthorOfPosts

Randy Lahey said:


> Its clear that based on Adam Cole's reaction on Dynamite, that WWE had no idea what do do with him on NXT. The fact demos are this close only 2 years into AEW's run should tell you that WWE has no idea how to connect to their 18-49 audience anymore, its simply a slow bleed year after year.


None of this made sense.

Adam Cole was much better positioned in NXT than he is in AEW and the reactions and reputation he has as a great wrestler is because of his work at NXT.

And anyone taking anything from this week as a win for AEW is deluded. Their popularity hasn't increased for a while. SmackDown was on a different channel, a much smaller channel. Their viewership was still better. Was it a win for them? No, it was still a bad result even if it was more than Rampage as they would've expected more. It was loss for both sides. Wrestling is dying.

And AEW fans need to stop with this moronic "they're a new company" line. It doesn't make sense here. It only makes sense to mention it if they've had to deal with any obstacles that new companies have to deal with. Which AEW hasn't. They're backed by a billionaire (Shahid Khan) and don't care about making money and have received a lot of coverage within wrestling since AEW started. New shows getting views isn't an abnormal thing when there's a lot of coverage. If anything, being new has only helped AEW as there's been a lot of hand holding from journalists and a lot of interest simply because they're new.


----------



## bdon

THANOS said:


> *I agree that you can call a spade a spade*, and skin colour shouldn't matter, but MVP is great on the mic, Lashley is a beast in the ring, Big E has loads of charisma and is good in the ring and Sasha is great at everything.


Imagine defending African-Americans receiving an extra push in the name of diversity and representation in one breath and not realizing how offensive the above would be to those same people of color.


----------



## DaSlacker

RapShepard said:


> So you're just going to actively ignore that Cole was champion from the debut of Dynamite until July 2020 and NXT was consistently losing to Dynamite.
> 
> Cole- loses to Dynamite weekly and gets cheers= Over
> 
> The New Day- sells a fuck ton of merchandise, gets opportunities outside the company, sold fucking cereal, gets cheered by fans = less over than Cole.
> 
> Alrighty then.
> 
> Hell Dynamite has all those exciting white wrestlers (minus Andrade) fans love that you named, Raw has some of those mediocre black talents that fans don't want to see. Yet Dynamite isn't beating the piss out of Raw in demo and viewership on a weekly basis yet.


There's more to it than just the talent in question. NXT 1.0 was caught in a weird position of being more WWE, a spinoff brand and a development show. AEW is firmly a rival promotion and without the scripting. Or WWE banality. Under those circumstances everybody has a ceiling. Cole was and always will be an unknown because he wasn't tested as a member of the SmackDown roster. I mean, I'm not even a fan of his but I can see he brings to the table a slimy charismatic heel and strong promo who can go in the ring.


----------



## SPCDRI

NXT was always imitation alternative. you ever go to the grocery store and see fake crab legs? Around where I live its called Louis Kemp Crab Delights. Why do people buy extruded fish with dye and flavorings added to sort of be like crab meat but its not crab meat when they could buy the crab meat instead? Because its 2 dollars a pack and the crab legs are 15 dollars a pound. The additional cost to watching an alternative is its not promoted heavily and easy to watch on top 20 cable television, you need to know what you're looking for and "pay" for it by seeking it out.
AEW is genuine crab legs with zero additional cost. It was probably going to beat NXT predominantly off that.


----------



## RapShepard

DaSlacker said:


> There's more to it than just the talent in question. NXT 1.0 was caught in a weird position of being more WWE, a spinoff brand and a development show. AEW is firmly a rival promotion and without the scripting. Or WWE banality. Under those circumstances everybody has a ceiling. Cole was and always will be an unknown because he wasn't tested as a member of the SmackDown roster. I mean, I'm not even a fan of his but I can see he brings to the table a slimy charismatic heel and strong promo who can go in the ring.


I'm not saying Cole is some fuck boy loser that should be treated like a jobber. But I'm definitely going to call bull shit if a narrative of "black wrestlers being pushed is the issue, guys like Adam Cole should've been given those spots" when no evidence exists to support that guys like Adam Cole and Malachi Black are big time draws that got glossed over. We literally saw Adam Cole with the WWE machine behind him lose head to head with Dynamite for 8 months. That shit can't just be swept to the side


----------



## TheFiend666

So embarrassing AEW wrestlers are bragging while still losing lmao


----------



## THANOS

bdon said:


> Imagine defending African-Americans receiving an extra push in the name of diversity and representation in one breath and not realizing how offensive the above would be to those same people of color.


That was referring to calling a talent good, bad, or mediocre on talent alone, not considering other factors.

Were you reading into it differently?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> * If he's "killing the demo" at 450,000 viewers, will you still say he's winning?*


well, what is his opposition on a Friday night at 10 and what was there beforehand

i’ve long since stopped caring about ratings and only come in here for the memes or to have fun

the only time we’ll know of failure is if they get cancelled - but at the moment how can any of these pros say shit when the arenas are full every week?

bums in seats are to me the biggest indicator of success - people willing to go out of their house and see your shit and buy your shit

ratings have so much issues with it the way we look at it, it really is just a meme


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Randy Lahey said:


> I'd say letting Adam Cole and Malachi Black walk, while pushing black talent like Lashley, MVP was a mistake. Cameron Grimes is more over, and more of a character, than just about any black talent Raw currently uses. I think pushing women's wrestling, and black wrestling has made the show far less popular. There's never been a big black audience for wrestling. If WWE was going to target minority audiences, they should push far more latin stars since wrestling is far more popular in Mexican and Latino culture than black.


please go post this or similar in rants, i have a few things to tell you that can’t be said in polite conversation


----------



## Erik.

3venflow said:


> MJF savage on all fronts as usual.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450635781018566658


Back handed compliment 101.

Funniest thing is Reigns is getting all this attention for doing this in character fake shoots, getting himself some heat and MJF outdid him.

Praising WWE and suggesting you might go there is a way bigger heel move than just trashing on CM Punk. Everyone has taken shots at CM Punk.


----------



## La Parka

Randy Lahey said:


> I'd say letting Adam Cole and Malachi Black walk, while pushing black talent like Lashley, MVP was a mistake. Cameron Grimes is more over, and more of a character, than just about any black talent Raw currently uses. I think pushing women's wrestling, and black wrestling has made the show far less popular. There's never been a big black audience for wrestling. If WWE was going to target minority audiences, they should push far more latin stars since wrestling is far more popular in Mexican and Latino culture than black.


Grimes is as goofy as the new day, the only difference is the new day at least makes money and has a fanbase.
I don’t see how you could possibly claim that Grimes will ever even be in the same stratosphere as New Day when it comes to getting over. 

MVP is one of the best mic workers in the business right now, it would be incredibly foolish to use him in any other way. Bobby Lashley can go in the ring, is a known name and looks incredible. This is a combo that you push.

Banks is both black and a woman and is one of the highest merch sellers in the WWE and would be one of the highest in AEW.

this is a WEAK take


----------



## A PG Attitude

What's with all the sudden hate for black wrestlers? Is that what it's come to on here?


----------



## DaSlacker

A PG Attitude said:


> What's with all the sudden hate for black wrestlers? Is that what it's come to on here?


Can't say I've ever taken notice of the wrestler's ethnicity. Only ever prejudiced with those who can't speak much English - generally Asian - due to not being able to cut a promo and stereotype booking. 

For what it's worth:

Lashley is a beast who is in the correct spot. Banks is always entertaining. Big E is fine but they missed the boat there years ago. Kingston has always been overrated. Woods is underutilised. MVP was putting in some of his best ever character work.


----------



## A PG Attitude

DaSlacker said:


> Can't say I've ever taken notice of the wrestler's ethnicity. Only ever prejudiced with those who can't speak much English - generally Asian - due to not being able to cut a promo and stereotype booking.
> 
> For what it's worth:
> 
> Lashley is a beast who is in the correct spot. Banks is always entertaining. Big E is fine but they missed the boat there years ago. Kingston has always been overrated. Woods is underutilised. MVP was putting in some of his best ever character work.


Yeah they have earned there spots through merit, it's great to see some diversity but they haven't been put there at the expense of someone else purely because they are black.


----------



## Seth Grimes

elo said:


> I can't believe how triggered people get over this stuff, pro wrestling is having a mini-boom and instead some posters in here have completely lost the plot.
> 
> This is a good day for pro wrestling period.


Sorry to tell you but wrestling is most certainly not having any sort of boom, shit is dying more and more. People here arguing over 1.4m viewers, whilst during WWE vs WCW there was 10m+ viewers involved. There have been tv series cancelled for having under 5m viewers for their seasons. Whilst we're here with SD getting 2.1m, RAW getting 1.5m, Dynamite getting about 700k (?), Rampage getting 500k. These numbers are fucking SHIT when you consider how big of an industry wrestling is, and the amount of people who are at least aware of it. There are more viewers for UFC PPV's than both AEW shows, people are legit more willing to pay £50 and watch UFC, than watch free AEW, which is the second biggest wrestling promotion in the world. 



DammitChrist said:


> This will be ignored.


Of course it will, because Bischoff actually beat WWE in total viewership, completely different thing.



Ace said:


> Nobody gives a fuck about what 300,000 geezers who are old enough to be most posters great grandfathers are watching.


And why should we care about how many teenagers who can't even drink alcohol, lives with their parents still, and likely has no job/money?



LifeInCattleClass said:


> View attachment 110395


You guys secretly love Reigns so much that you use his quotes. He's so over, that even the people who hate him are using them, hahahahaha next AEW will run a tribal chief storyline, and everyone will be saying "woah, this is the best storyline we've seen since the summer of Punk". Thanks for acknowledging our tribal chief, in your own ways  



Garty said:


> So, you've watched it from day one, hated it, continued to watch it for two years, complain about it here on a weekly basis... or have you stopped watching it and are only here to complain on a weekly basis, knowing nothing that's going on with the product other than what you read or hear? That's called a troll post, which I read far too often here in this section.
> 
> As I've said time after time, going back to my _'this is going to get me banned days'_... we get it, you (or generally speaking for all that) don't like AEW, so you don't have to keep reminding us every few days. We've all heard you a hundred times prior. What is the fascination with AEW that if you don't like it, that you feel some need to tell those of us who do like it how much you think it sucks? What kind of dumbass does that?! Seriously?! Don't like it? Then clearly, you shouldn't be still watching, right? And if you're not watching it, then you have nothing to complain about. See how simple that solution is? Take my advice, try it. Shut-up.
> 
> This is always such a stupid take and opinion. It's been two years... move on.


Yeah, annoying isn't it? I wish you had the same energy for all those AEW fans that come into WWE threads just to say "dub dub e suck, me not watch for 2 years, but dub dub e suck any way".



Botchy SinCara said:


> View attachment 110384
> 
> 
> 
> Here are the facts wwe raitings have fallen and never recovered ..ironically that big slump at 2015 is the head of the table winning the rumble and chasing away fans that never came back..now I expect fully for dynamite to have crap numbers too this week and next from being on sat but they have done nothing but improve year after year while wwe keeps slumping


No mate, not WWE, the entirety of wrestling has fallen and never recovered, and probably never will unless some huge changes happen. Look at your avatar, what casual tunes into wrestling, see's some absolute geek kicking someone in the shins with his hands in his pockets and says "WOAH THESE GUYS ARE LEGIT, THIS IS SOME BADASS SHIT". Orange Cassidy is the reason people laugh at wrestling fans.


----------



## Erik.

Oh look, here the institutionalised WWE fan coming into the AEW section to tell us what wrestling is and what it isn't.

Brilliant.

Oh look, he's quoting a wrestlers quote too. How totally normal.


----------



## wwetna1

Randy Lahey said:


> Its clear that based on Adam Cole's reaction on Dynamite, that WWE had no idea what do do with him on NXT. The fact demos are this close only 2 years into AEW's run should tell you that WWE has no idea how to connect to their 18-49 audience anymore, its simply a slow bleed year after year.
> 
> Pushing Roman started the steep decline in 2014 and onward. Ratings show this clearly.
> 
> Its just my own politically incorrect opinion of course, but I think Vince letting more talented guys walk to push primarily black acts will be another kill shot. Meanwhile, AEW will benefit by simply following common business sense by pushing guys that reflect their fanbase. If you think Big E can generate the same type of babyface reactions from a wrestling audience as say a Hangman Page can, you're fooling yourself.
> 
> Its the same concept as Hollywood making movies. Movies with a primarily black cast, do lower numbers because they appeal to smaller demos. WWE thinking they can do this buck the trend, is foolish.
> 
> WWEtna makes a good point though. If this was a calculated move by Vince to push black acts in order to get a big Fox deal, then he's playing 4d chess knowing the actual ratings don't matter since the money has already been paid.


I don’t want to get into it all but I do think Vince had sense to play 4d chess as you say. 

He knew Fox had cancelled everything in that Friday slot, and they always skewed that way. They tried chef, singing, comedy, and everything else in that slot and it never worked and connected with their audience. 

Vince sold SD separate from raw because he knew he could. He didn’t pitch raw to them, he pitched sd to them which had a history of coming off a mostly black broadcast channel in upn. He knew the slot at fox would never be over 2 hours because of local news. He knew the audience. And he knew the reach broadcast could give his business and he always preferred SD be on broadcast up until MyTV stopped being a broadcast network. He got paid because he did his research. People can look back as far as 10 years ago when Hulu wasn’t big and he signed an exclusivity deal to block out all other wrestling. 

He’s not dumb, he’s stubborn, but big picture he’s far from dumb. You can even argue that at what some people call him out for, he had the right idea. Bryan as over as he is not being in the mania event was flipped for example because of the fans. Vince initially thought Batista with the belt is money. And if you forget the moment and look at the actual big picture, was he ever wrong? Bryan got the moment and went over all of evolution for no payoff. Bryan got hurt and the company got a yea movement of nothing. Vince follows his first mind and Batista is taking the title with him to GOTG red carpets as he’s in the blockbuster of the summer and they have a champion who is a Hollywood star. Vince saw the picture as a whole outside the moment. It’s the same with the stock exchange, the network being created, going to peacock, multiple rights deals, and his replay rights coming up when money is being spent heavily for content. Vince sees a bigger picture more often than he’s old man yelling at cloud 

He’s not got one tv rights deal like years ago that’s all inclusive. He’s got 3 different ones with NBCU not including peacock, one with fox, two with Hulu, and he got someone to broker events like crown jewel and super showdown. 

Vince can live very much so with a nba like audience. Hell his top two prospect talents in 2.0 are literally Bron and Melo like Lebron and Carmelo. It’s why SD sent the street profits to rolling loud or Bianca was with Megan the Stallion. He’s generated record revenue pushing his brand, at least half of it that way when other companies will not embrace it. It may turn some people off but it turned Dollar signs up. 

And I’m sorry but it’s hard to be a Gable Stevenson for example and look at AEW and not say damn they won’t book a black guy on a ppv card. Or be a black woman and not think like Tasha Steelz thought out loud when she said I told Kiera the money may be good but protect your happiness because they ain’t for us over there. 

And to be fair Black, Andrade, Cole all got booked to the top of nxt and headlined takeovers and tv shows way before AEW touched them yet they moved nothing. Andrade was the stupidest one of all because it was said he refused them even trying to teach him English, but my point is none of them did anything because nxt always ran at a loss even though it treated them all like top guys who were getting those same pops at every take over they get now.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Seth Grimes said:


> You guys secretly love Reigns so much that you use his quotes. He's so over, that even the people who hate him are using them, hahahahaha next AEW will run a tribal chief storyline, and everyone will be saying "woah, this is the best storyline we've seen since the summer of Punk". Thanks for acknowledging our tribal chief, in your own ways


Oh, i thought Sydal was quoting this guy










Reigns who?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Exhibit Z of Meltzer being full of shit:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450657276130316292
Only exhibit Z because we only have 26 letters in our alphabet.

@Chip Chipperson did wrestling Twitter a tremendous community service by finding this gem:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1116504205043195904*


----------



## bdon

THANOS said:


> That was referring to calling a talent good, bad, or mediocre on talent alone, not considering other factors.
> 
> Were you reading into it differently?


Using the word “spade” in the context of African-American’s is a no-go. It’s a derogatory term used by white men for decades to refer to the color of their skin.

I wasn’t suggesting you were a racist, just informing you that the phrase you used falls in direct contention to the intent of your comments.


----------



## Seth Grimes

Erik. said:


> Oh look, here the institutionalised WWE fan coming into the AEW section to tell us what wrestling is and what it isn't.
> 
> Brilliant.
> 
> Oh look, he's quoting a wrestlers quote too. How totally normal.


Something something AEW loyalist, something something WWE shill. Got anything more interesting to say than that?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Seth Grimes said:


> Something something AEW loyalist, something something WWE shill. Got anything more interesting to say than that?


*He has nothing insightful to add, ever. Just AEW good, WWE bad.*


----------



## La Parka

Seth Grimes said:


> Something something AEW loyalist, something something WWE shill. Got anything more interesting to say than that?


Something about blood money, probably.


----------



## bdon

So, if WWE airing 30 extra minutes of SD was not a failed attempt to kill Rampage head-to-head, then why is Vince only airing Talking Smack head-to-head? Why not continue the extra 30 minutes of SmackDown on FS1 to continue the pummeling!?

Because they know they went into Round 1 with AEW, swinging haymakers left and right, and AEW withstood the onslaught and even delivered a few shots of their own.

WWE looks like Apollo Creed in Rocky 1 when he realizes he may have fucked up letting this unknown enter his ring.


----------



## La Parka

bdon said:


> WWE looks like Apollo Creed in Rocky 1 when he realizes he may have fucked up letting this unknown enter his ring.


You know Apollo Creed won that fight... right?


----------



## Savage Elbow

bdon said:


> So, if WWE airing 30 extra minutes of SD was not a failed attempt to kill Rampage head-to-head, then why is Vince only airing Talking Smack head-to-head? Why not continue the extra 30 minutes of SmackDown on FS1 to continue the pummeling!?


Maybe because they haven't got a ppv to build/plug next week


----------



## bdon

La Parka said:


> You know Apollo Creed won that fight... right?


Yes, he won the first fight, but all he did was legitimize Rocky and ensure his title reign would come to an end as we seen in Rocky 2.

I’m not saying AEW is going to become king and put WWE out of business, but WWE just legitimized AEW as competition.


----------



## the_flock

bdon said:


> Imagine defending African-Americans receiving an extra push in the name of diversity and representation in one breath and not realizing how offensive the above would be to those same people of color.


That's not a racist expression, it's talking about a gardening tool. The old expression was to call a fig a fig, it then got retranslated to a spade. 

It simply means to tell it like it is. If you think it's racist, that's on you.


----------



## bdon

the_flock said:


> That's not a racist expression, it's talking about a gardening tool. The old expression was to call a fig a fig, it then got retranslated to a spade.
> 
> It simply means to tell it like it is. If you think it's racist, that's on you.


You’re not American, so you don’t understand this stuff. Sorry, but you don’t get to speak on our history and our terminology.


----------



## the_flock

bdon said:


> You’re not American, so you don’t understand this stuff. Sorry, but you don’t get to speak on our history and our terminology.


It's not your history or terminology, the quote is Greek and is referring to a gardening tool. 

What you're referring to is the spade in a deck of cards. The quote is as black as the ace of spades. 

They're 2 completely different things.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> You’re not American, so you don’t understand this stuff. Sorry, but you don’t get to speak on our history and our terminology.


but they did invent the english language 

and honestly - if calling a spade a spade is now racist somehow, the fault lies with you guys - the world uses that phrase


edit> i just read up on this - its quite an interesting story / and a nice example of how different countries mean different things. but 'calling a spade a spade' is fine for the majority of the world


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Now that the weekend shenanigans are over, I would like to have a serious discussion about the October 6th Dynamite rating. 

Is it not concerning that they're already under 1.1 mil just a little over a month after several blockbuster signings? Tony Khan collected the hottest free agents in the business. It literally doesn't get any better than Bryan, Punk, and Cole, so it's not like they can rely on another signing to bail them out with another temporary ratings boost.

The main problem continues to be these jobber vs star matches that decrease the importance of said stars. Adam Cole feels like the third Young Buck, and clearly Punk wrestling jobbers on Rampage every week ain't it. Bryan is the best handled thus far, but that's not saying much, given the presentation of the other two. "Happy Punk" can't continue much longer because the viewer hasn't been interested in that since week 3 of his return.

They need to stop bringing out Daniel Garcia to job to top guys every week, because each time it tanks ratings. They need to build him up in the mid card so the average fan can be invested in his match, instead of him just being viewed as the guy who always loses. Bryan vs Garcia could be money at a big event if he's built properly. *


----------



## Prized Fighter

WWE should push white wrestlers over black wrestlers is one of the oddest hills to die on that I have ever seen. I don't even have to watch their product to know that is a bad call. You should want to bring in a diverse audience if you can.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> but they did invent the english language
> 
> and honestly - if calling a spade a spade is now racist somehow, the fault lies with you guys - the world uses that phrase
> 
> 
> edit> i just read up on this - its quite an interesting story / and a nice example of how different countries mean different things. but 'calling a spade a spade' is fine for the majority of the world


Exactly.

A majority of the world it is. In this context, when discussing whether African-Americans receiving a push for the sake of diversity and representation, using that phrase is counter-intuitive to the topic at hand.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Exactly.
> 
> A majority of the world it is. In this context, when discussing whether African-Americans receiving a push for the sake of diversity and representation, using that phrase is counter-intuitive to the topic at hand.


but nobody knew - so focusing on a side point that we all know was not meant in the way you think it was vs the actual point which was well made is more counter-intuitive

this is above all else a global site with global people - even when discussing local matters

ps> should be pointed out, not all the black people in the discussion is even African American - Kofi for instance is from Ghana. calling him African American can be insulting as there are many countries in Africa (but hijacking the thread about this point which is small is silly)


----------



## THANOS

bdon said:


> Using the word “spade” in the context of African-American’s is a no-go. It’s a derogatory term used by white men for decades to refer to the color of their skin.
> 
> I wasn’t suggesting you were a racist, just informing you that the phrase you used falls in direct contention to the intent of your comments.


Thanks for informing me on that. I honestly had no idea. I won't edit my post so it remains as a learning experience for anyone else reading it.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Prized Fighter said:


> WWE should push white wrestlers over black wrestlers is one of the oddest hills to die on that I have ever seen. I don't even have to watch their product to know that is a bad call. You should want to bring in a diverse audience if you can.


I reckon just push who is good. If you're entertaining the audience shouldn't care if you're black, white, purple or an alien from outer space.


----------



## bdon

THANOS said:


> Thanks for informing me on that. I honestly had no idea. I won't edit my post so it remains as a learning experience for anyone else reading it.


I know you didn’t intend for it to be taken that way, which is why I pointed it out to you without any ill intent.




LifeInCattleClass said:


> but nobody knew - so focusing on a side point that we all know was not meant in the way you think it was vs the actual point which was well made is more counter-intuitive
> 
> this is above all else a global site with global people - even when discussing local matters
> 
> ps> should be pointed out, not all the black people in the discussion is even African American - Kofi for instance is from Ghana. calling him African American can be insulting as there are many countries in Africa (but hijacking the thread about this point which is small is silly)


Any African-American that hears Thanos use that phrase, specifically talking about anyone that looks like them, would be offended. I wasn’t calling him racist and specifically said that. I was just pointing out that you can’t use that reference in some circles, especially in that regard, and have it mirror his main intent.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> I reckon just push who is good. If you're entertaining the audience shouldn't care if you're black, white, purple or an alien from outer space.


It’s a tricky world. I believe in pushing who deserves it, but you also have to be mindful of representation if you want to appeal to mass audiences. You complain about AEW’s mostly white audience, but if they had more black athletes at the top, the audience would be more diverse. Except…what black wrestler do they have that deserves that push?


----------



## Garty

The Legit DMD said:


> *
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1116504205043195904*


There's no context or background to his tweet, but what I think he was saying is that the two are separate from the other... ratings are overall viewers combined and demos are overall viewers broken down into categories. Still, the leading metric is ranked by demos, not by overall viewers.

I may be wrong, but that's what I think he tried to say, but didn't make it perfectly clear. I'm not defending anything. I'm just giving a plausible reason for the quote.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Garty said:


> There's no context or background to his tweet, but what I think he was saying is that the two are separate from the other... ratings are overall viewers combined and demos are overall viewers broken down into categories. Still, the leading metric is ranked by demos, not by overall viewers.
> 
> I may be wrong, but that's what I think he tried to say, but didn't make it perfectly clear. I'm not defending anything. I'm just giving a plausible reason for the quote.


*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450693723881418756*


----------



## Prized Fighter

Chip Chipperson said:


> I reckon just push who is good. If you're entertaining the audience shouldn't care if you're black, white, purple or an alien from outer space.


Exactly. Talent will always win out. People will take notice.


----------



## Prized Fighter

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450838685927235588
For those who discuss demo vs total, here is a good thread.


----------



## RoganJosh

bdon said:


> Using the word “spade” in the context of African-American’s is a no-go. It’s a derogatory term used by white men for decades to refer to the color of their skin.
> 
> I wasn’t suggesting you were a racist, just informing you that the phrase you used falls in direct contention to the intent of your comments.


This is quite petty and demonstrates the snowflake society we live in today. Clearly the poster had no racist intent behind his comments.

The other day I was banned for a week. I had no idea why, but once the ban had been lifted I could see that it was because I had made reference to Ruby Soho having a hook nose. I was apparently being racist or anti semitic by commenting on her hook nose hence the banning. I meant it in the literal sense that she had a hook looking nose, I had no idea that Jews were referred to as hook nosed people?? Well according to @Firefromthegods anyway. Anyway I didn't bother to argue with him. The point is you need to watch every little thing you say in case some snowflake takes offence.


----------



## Garty

The Legit DMD said:


> *
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450693723881418756*


I may be blind and hard of hearing today, but I still don't understand what he's saying is wrong.

Whatever shows he was comparing the overall viewers ratings against, Raw was 3rd overall. So that means the other two shows had more overall viewers individually, but Raw was still 1, 2, 3 in demos. That's all I take away from this. He never said that Raw wasn't 1, 2, 3 in demos, just that Raw had less viewers than two other overall viewer rated shows.


----------



## yeahright2

The Legit DMD said:


> *
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450693723881418756*


The Meltz has spoken. Since some people take his word as gospel, any talk about AEW beating WWE should be dead now. WWE won. He can´t just change the narrative to fit his own purpose.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RoganJosh said:


> This is quite petty and demonstrates the snowflake society we live in today. Clearly the poster had no racist intent behind his comments.
> 
> The other day I was banned for a week. I had no idea why, but once the ban had been lifted I could see that it was because I had made reference to Ruby Soho having a hook nose. I was apparently being racist or anti semitic by commenting on her hook nose hence the banning. I meant it in the literal sense that she had a hook looking nose, I had no idea that Jews were referred to as hook nosed people?? Well according to @Firefromthegods anyway. Anyway I didn't bother to argue with him. The point is you need to watch every little thing you say in case some snowflake takes offence.


I kinda have a funny story about this sort of thing

couple years back when I was still running ad team i worked for this global company. We had a meeting of all the sales directors from all over the world - India, Spain, South Africa, UK, USA, Russia, Japan and a couple more

It was my turn for my demographic presentation and I was explaining the ZA demo, which was pretty profitable then

I explained we were 70% African Black, 12% White, 10% Indian and 8% Coloured.

Now - ‘Coloured’ is an actual ethnic group in South Africa. When the EU settlers came here in 1600s they found the indigenous Khoi and San people. Through the years the groups mixed and today this is known as the ‘Coloured’ community - and Proudly so / fiercely protective of their identity

As I said ‘Coloured’ the American sales director got a massive huff in his step. He told me I am being massively racist and I cannot say ‘coloured’ and its disrespectful and the funniest thing is he said: ‘You should call them African American’


….


he said, I should call a South African ethnic group ‘African American’ - let that shit sink in for a moment. It was hilarious - i burst out laughing and then explained the whole thing. The guy was so wrong on so many levels (african american being the worst of it)

but how could I be mad? He legit did not know what I was talking about  

and he was overtly sensitive about something he did not understand


----------



## RoganJosh

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I kinda have a funny story about this sort of thing
> 
> couple years back when I was still running ad team i worked for this global company. We had a meeting of all the sales directors from all over the world - India, Spain, South Africa, UK, USA, Russia, Japan and a couple more
> 
> It was my turn for my demographic presentation and I was explaining the ZA demo, which was pretty profitable then
> 
> I explained we were 70% African Black, 12% White, 10% Indian and 8% Coloured.
> 
> Now - ‘Coloured’ is an actual ethnic group in South Africa. When the EU settlers came here in 1600s they found the indigenous Khoi and San people. Through the years the groups mixed and today this is known as the ‘Coloured’ community - and Proudly so / fiercely protective of their identity
> 
> As I said ‘Coloured’ the American sales director got a massive huff in his step. He told me I am being massively racist and I cannot say ‘coloured’ and its disrespectful and the funniest thing is he said: ‘You should call them African American’
> 
> 
> ….
> 
> 
> he said, I should call a South African ethnic group ‘African American’ - let that shit sink in for a moment. It was hilarious - i burst out laughing and then explained the whole thing. The guy was so wrong on so many levels (african american being the worst of it)
> 
> but how could I be mad? He legit did not know what I was talking about
> 
> and he was overtly sensitive about something he did not understand


Yes some people get triggered through ignorance. Fair enough.


----------



## FITZ

I am going to call a spade and a spade and say that referring to the term "calling a spade a spade" as racist is stupid.

According to wikipedia the term was first used by a writer in in 1621 to describe his plain and straightforward writing style. But the same type of phrase appears to have origins in ancient Greece where they would say "call a fig a fig."


----------



## 3venflow

This could help the Saturday ratings this week.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450852576543526916


----------



## Sad Panda

3venflow said:


> This could help the Saturday ratings this week.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450852576543526916


Ya gotta appreciate Tony always thinking outside the box. 

This is an interesting idea.


----------



## Prized Fighter

3venflow said:


> This could help the Saturday ratings this week.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450852576543526916


This is a a really good idea. I do wonder how this will work though. TNT doesn't show college football and they don't have preview shows for it. So AEW may be partnering with another source. I could see them working with Barstool Sports and being tied to their college football preview show.


----------



## Not Lying

TK is a visionary !


----------



## RapShepard

* Tracking Ratings With Rap Shepard*

Let's see the Rampage numbers without Punk

Rampage #1- 740k .31 demo

Dynamite 8/18- 975k .35 demo

Rampage #2 with Punk- 1.129 million .53 demo

Dynamite 8/25 with Punk- 1.172 million .48 demo

Rampage #3 no Punk- 722k .34 demo

Dynamite 9/1 - 1.047 .37 demo

Rampage #4 with Punk- 696k .30 demo

Dynamite 9/8 with Punk, Bryan, and Cole- 1.31 million .53 demo

Rampage #5 No Punk, Bryan, or Cole- 670k .27 demo

Dynamite 9/15 with Punk, Cole, and Bryan- 1.175 million .44 demo

Rampage #6 no Punk, Cole, or Bryan - 642k .28 demo

Dynamite 9/22 Bryan vs Omega- 1.273 million .48 demo

Rampage #7 Punk vs Hobbs- 640k .28 demo

Dynamite 9/30 with Punk, Bryan, and Cole- 1.152 million .45 demo

Rampage #8 Bryan vs Nick Jackson- 622k .25 demo 

Dynamite 10/6 The Super Elite vs Bryan's ragtag group of merry men- 1.05 million .37 demo 

Rampage 9- 502k .17 demo 

Dynamite 10/6 The Super Elite vs Bryan's ragtag group of merry men- 1.05 million .37 demo 

Rampage 10 Punk vs Sydal- 578k .24 demo * beat SmackDown 30 minute head to head *

Dynamite 10/16- 727k .28 demo * Beat SmackDown in demo outright*


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*@RapShepard just edit the last part to "Punk vs Sydal"*


----------



## Randy Lahey

3venflow said:


> MJF savage on all fronts as usual.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450635781018566658


MJF 😂😂…I love how nobody in AEW is forced to tow the company line. Saying RubySoho sucks 😂


----------



## AuthorOfPosts

RapShepard said:


> * Tracking Ratings With Rap Shepard*
> 
> Let's see the Rampage numbers without Punk
> 
> Rampage #1- 740k .31 demo
> 
> Dynamite 8/18- 975k .35 demo
> 
> Rampage #2 with Punk- 1.129 million .53 demo
> 
> Dynamite 8/25 with Punk- 1.172 million .48 demo
> 
> Rampage #3 no Punk- 722k .34 demo
> 
> Dynamite 9/1 - 1.047 .37 demo
> 
> Rampage #4 with Punk- 696k .30 demo
> 
> Dynamite 9/8 with Punk, Bryan, and Cole- 1.31 million .53 demo
> 
> Rampage #5 No Punk, Bryan, or Cole- 670k .27 demo
> 
> Dynamite 9/15 with Punk, Cole, and Bryan- 1.175 million .44 demo
> 
> Rampage #6 no Punk, Cole, or Bryan - 642k .28 demo
> 
> Dynamite 9/22 Bryan vs Omega- 1.273 million .48 demo
> 
> Rampage #7 Punk vs Hobbs- 640k .28 demo
> 
> Dynamite 9/30 with Punk, Bryan, and Cole- 1.152 million .45 demo
> 
> Rampage #8 Bryan vs Nick Jackson- 622k .25 demo
> 
> Dynamite 10/6 The Super Elite vs Bryan's ragtag group of merry men- 1.05 million .37 demo
> 
> Rampage 9- 502k .17 demo
> 
> Dynamite 10/6 The Super Elite vs Bryan's ragtag group of merry men- 1.05 million .37 demo
> 
> Rampage 10 Punk vs Sydal- 578k .24 demo * beat SmackDown 30 minute head to head *
> 
> Dynamite 10/16- 727k .28 demo * Beat SmackDown in demo outright*


Does Rampage even do a higher viewership than NXT 2.0? A show that's not even allowed to have stars...


----------



## Randy Lahey

A PG Attitude said:


> Yeah they have earned there spots through merit, it's great to see some diversity but they haven't been put there at the expense of someone else purely because they are black.


There’s a big difference between diversity, which is representing your viewing audience or even US population, vs over populating minority acts at the expense of other groups with larger populations.

Blacks make up about 15% of the US population and I think the last numbers I saw made up 20% of the wrestling viewing audience.

WWE is far far far over representing black acts especiallly at the top of their card. As I mentioned before, it’s no different than TV shows or movies. If you make a movie that doesn’t reflect your broad audience, most likely you aren’t going to get the broad audience to tune in.

The e drones in this thread don’t understand that the goal is to maximize total 18-49 demo, not to have a diverse crowd. For instance, Females being up as a % of the audience is actually a negative if you’ve lost more males than gained females along the way. Same with the racial demos.

Its possible Vince thinks of WWE as another sport and in pro sports like MMA, Boxing NBA,NHL, NFL, MLB race doesn’t matter much at all to the viewing public. But, I don’t see WWE as a sport but more a sitcom/movie. And in sitcoms/movies, if you are over repping black actors then you will most likely do lower numbers.


----------



## RapShepard

AuthorOfPosts said:


> Does Rampage even do a higher viewership than NXT 2.0? A show that's not even allowed to have stars...


Despite being in the Hyper Ultra Mega Death Slot Rampage is beating NXT 2.0 fairly easily based on how the charts rank in demo.

Viewership wise NXT 2.0 wins but considering they're on Tuesday at 8 and have the WWE name it's not exactly by a margin to brag about. And I say this as someone who prefers WWE, doesn't mind Raw, and thinks NXT 2.0 has something  

Below are ratings from when both went against playoff baseball and there was no SmackDown on cable running at the same time as Rampage. 

Ratings wise NXT is the defacto 5th major TV brand.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*AEW fans and journalists: "ONLY THE COVETED DEMO MATTERS!!1!!"

The NFL, which routinely shits on wrestling: 

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450882276192047105*


----------



## RapShepard

Randy Lahey said:


> There’s a big difference between diversity, which is representing your viewing audience or even US population, vs over populating minority acts at the expense of other groups with larger populations.
> 
> Blacks make up about 15% of the US population and I think the last numbers I saw made up 20% of the wrestling viewing audience.
> 
> *WWE is far far far over representing black acts especiallly at the top of their card. * As I mentioned before, it’s no different than TV shows or movies. If you make a movie that doesn’t reflect your broad audience, most likely you aren’t going to get the broad audience to tune in.
> 
> *The e drones in this thread don’t understand that the goal is to maximize total 18-49 demo, not to have a diverse crowd. For instance, Females being up as a % of the audience is actually a negative if you’ve lost more males than gained females along the way. Same with the racial demos.*
> 
> Its possible Vince thinks of WWE as another sport and in pro sports like MMA, Boxing NBA,NHL, NFL, MLB race doesn’t matter much at all to the viewing public. But, I don’t see WWE as a sport but more a sitcom/movie. And in sitcoms/movies, if you are over repping black actors then you will most likely do lower numbers.


Okay so by this logic why isn't the predominantly white, AEW Dynamite not beating the fuck out of "eww too many black folk" Monday Night Raw in the ratings?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *AEW fans and journalists: "ONLY THE COVETED DEMO MATTERS!!1!!"
> 
> The NFL, which routinely shits on wrestling:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450882276192047105*


sorry, us at the ‘Bring Information (of) AEW Soon’ coalition / BIAS for short does not recognise this news source as it flies in the face of our logic and doesn’t fit our narrative

please find better sources showing demo only

thanks


----------



## THANOS

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what anyone tweets, all that matters is what drives advertisers. What drives them is what drives TV contracts.

If advertisers only pay for 18-49 demo, then that is what drives the TV contracts and all that should matter.

End of discussion.


----------



## AuthorOfPosts

RapShepard said:


> Despite being in the Hyper Ultra Mega Death Slot Rampage is beating NXT 2.0 fairly easily based on how the charts rank in demo.
> 
> Viewership wise NXT 2.0 wins but considering they're on Tuesday at 8 and have the WWE name it's not exactly by a margin to brag about. And I say this as someone who prefers WWE, doesn't mind Raw, and thinks NXT 2.0 has something
> 
> Below are ratings from when both went against playoff baseball and there was no SmackDown on cable running at the same time as Rampage.
> 
> Ratings wise NXT is the defacto 5th major TV brand.


I genuinely don't give a flying fuck about the "key demo". Only time I ever hear about it is in wrestling which tells me it doesn't somehow take precedence over the overall viewership and wrestling coverage is shit.

And while NXT 2.0 might have the WWE name to it, it doesn't have any names on it. I think it's the easiest watch but it's 100% a developmental show now. It doing more than 600k is a surprise. With all the hype around Rampage, and it being a main roster AEW show, it should be clear of NXT 2.0. Its numbers are terrible.


----------



## RapShepard

AuthorOfPosts said:


> I genuinely don't give a flying fuck about the "key demo". Only time I ever hear about it is in wrestling which tells me it doesn't somehow take precedence over the overall viewership and wrestling coverage is shit.
> 
> And while NXT 2.0 might have the WWE name to it, it doesn't have any names on it. I think it's the easiest watch but it's 100% a developmental show now. It doing more than 600k is a surprise. With all the hype around Rampage, and it being a main roster AEW show, it should be clear of NXT 2.0. Its numbers are terrible.


I get what you're saying on viewership, but the demo shit is legit as far as what matters business wise. But I get you on who's actually grabbing more eyes. 

Viewership = more eyes more popular

Demo = most value


----------



## Pentagon Senior

AuthorOfPosts said:


> I genuinely don't give a flying fuck about the "key demo". Only time I ever hear about it is in wrestling which tells me it doesn't somehow take precedence over the overall viewership and wrestling coverage is shit.
> 
> And while NXT 2.0 might have the WWE name to it, it doesn't have any names on it. I think it's the easiest watch but it's 100% a developmental show now. It doing more than 600k is a surprise. With all the hype around Rampage, and it being a main roster AEW show, it should be clear of NXT 2.0. Its numbers are terrible.


Different timeslots 👍


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lol, you guys are so weird

ok - stick with me here

there are two numbers - one shows you win, and the other shows you lose. Both have some measure of validity

which number do you guys think fans will crow about the most - in any sport, music, entertainment or really anything else

the demo is king in this thread, until AEW wins the overall

and that is that


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

THANOS said:


> At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what anyone tweets, all that matters is what drives advertisers. What drives them is what drives TV contracts.
> 
> If advertisers only pay for 18-49 demo, then that is what drives the TV contracts and all that should matter.
> 
> End of discussion.


*The NFL has steadily lost the demo for the last decade. Are you seriously implying that they are struggling to get advertisers to pay for slots?








The Super Bowl is losing viewers under 50, reflecting how American media has fragmented


The Super Bowl isn't the event it once was.




www.cnbc.com




*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> * Are you seriously implying that the NFL is struggling to get advertisers to pay for slots?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Super Bowl is losing viewers under 50, reflecting how American media has fragmented
> 
> 
> The Super Bowl isn't the event it once was.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


no, their key demo is massive


----------



## AuthorOfPosts

THANOS said:


> At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what anyone tweets, all that matters is what drives advertisers. What drives them is what drives TV contracts.
> 
> If advertisers only pay for 18-49 demo, then that is what drives the TV contracts and all that should matter.
> 
> End of discussion.


Advertisers only pay for one demo? What are you talking about? Depends on who the advertisers are and what demo the product they're selling will most appeal to.

And I thought this soulless "war" was about which one is more popular. I didn't know it was even more soulless with it being about what advertisers might want.

Wrestling is in a sad state. Imagine having this mentality with the music you listen to or the films/shows you watch.


----------



## THANOS

The Legit DMD said:


> * Are you seriously implying that the NFL is struggling to get advertisers to pay for slots?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Super Bowl is losing viewers under 50, reflecting how American media has fragmented
> 
> 
> The Super Bowl isn't the event it once was.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *





LifeInCattleClass said:


> no, their key demo is massive


He nailed it.


----------



## Dr. Middy

The Legit DMD said:


> *AEW fans and journalists: "ONLY THE COVETED DEMO MATTERS!!1!!"
> 
> The NFL, which routinely shits on wrestling:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450882276192047105*


I mean the NFL has been and will continue to be the biggest television ratings draws save news coverage of something like the January 6th shit. It has been for basically decades now.

It's not really a surprise when the Southern half of the country treats football like a legit religion and shuns those who don't care for it.


----------



## THANOS

AuthorOfPosts said:


> Advertisers only pay for one demo? What are you talking about? Depends on who the advertisers are and what demo the product they're selling will most appeal to.
> 
> And I thought this soulless "war" was about which one is more popular. I didn't know it was even more soulless with it being about what advertisers might want.
> 
> Wrestling is in a sad state. Imagine having this mentality with the music you listen to or the films/shows you watch.


That's what they value most. It's why rankings are set-up by that demo. It's fairly self-explanatory.

All demos matter to some extent, but the 18-49 drives the decisions.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> no, their key demo is massive


*...Relative to total viewers. That specific demo has been declining for a decade and they aren't hurting. *


----------



## Prized Fighter

AuthorOfPosts said:


> Advertisers only pay for one demo? What are you talking about? Depends on who the advertisers are and what demo the product they're selling will most appeal to.
> 
> And I thought this soulless "war" was about which one is more popular. I didn't know it was even more soulless with it being about what advertisers might want.
> 
> Wrestling is in a sad state. Imagine having this mentality with the music you listen to or the films/shows you watch.


In fairness, it is a pretty large demo. 18-49 includes a lot of the general population. That is a 31 year difference. The average life expectancy of a person in the US is 79 years old. So they would only be in the +50 for 29 years. Without doing research, I could not tell you how much of the population is over 50 or in the demo.


----------



## RapShepard

Prized Fighter said:


> In fairness, it is a pretty large demo. 18-49 includes a lot of the general population. That is a 31 year difference. The average life expectancy of a person in the US is 79 years old. So they would only be in the +50 for 29 years. Without doing research, I could not tell you how much of the population is over 50 or in the demo.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


>


only 8.39m potential NXT male viewers


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> only 8.39m potential NXT male viewers


To be fair I think NXT would kill for 8 million viewers right now. [emoji848] Demand every nursing home in the US to play NXT weekly [emoji48]


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *...Relative to total viewers. That specific demo has been declining for a decade and they aren't hurting. *


but ad prices has gone up since cord cutting

even a lower key demo can earn more - hence the big tv deals for live sports


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> but ad prices has gone up since cord cutting
> 
> even a lower key demo can earn more - hence the big tv deals for live sports


*...you realize you just made my argument for me, right?*


----------



## Seth Grimes

THANOS said:


> At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what anyone tweets, all that matters is what drives advertisers. What drives them is what drives TV contracts.
> 
> If advertisers only pay for 18-49 demo, then that is what drives the TV contracts and all that should matter.
> 
> End of discussion.


And why do you care which TV channel wrestling is on?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *...you realize you just made my argument for me, right?*


nah, whatever you think i said you misunderstood and any argument stemming from this i’ve already won in my head


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*ANYWAY...the great Uncle Dave has spoken. Only viewers matter, not demos. Glad we could end this debate civilly. *


----------



## Prized Fighter

RapShepard said:


>


Much appreciated.

18-49 = 138.17 million people
Over 50 = 118.43 million people
Under 18 = 72 million people

Obviously many different demographics are taken in to account by advertisers that is more granular then this.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

Prized Fighter said:


> This is a a really good idea. I do wonder how this will work though. TNT doesn't show college football and they don't have preview shows for it. So AEW may be partnering with another source. I could see them working with Barstool Sports and being tied to their college football preview show.


TNT is in the family of CBS is it not? That channel has College Football. Typically SEC and I think ACC.


----------



## Geeee

This thread has taken a really weird turn with all this race stuff...

Also, I have never heard spade used as a racial slur or "calling a spade a spade" used as a racial epithet. Though, I am only in baby America


----------



## RapShepard

Geeee said:


> This thread has taken a really weird turn with all this race stuff...
> 
> Also, I have never heard spade used as a racial slur or "calling a spade a spade" used as a racial epithet. Though, I am only in baby America





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs?wprov=sfla1


----------



## THANOS

Seth Grimes said:


> And why do you care which TV channel wrestling is on?


TV Contracts drive both companies' largest revenue stream.

I don't care about TV channels, as long as I can reach the product. It doesn't matter what I think. The topic is what means the most to this thread itself.


----------



## 3venflow

Looking past the Bischoff stuff, some Interesting comments from Khan here about Rampage's head-to-head win over Smackdown. Once more pointing out what the advertisers and networks care about (18-49 demo).

"When we got the head-to-head competition, I thought we need to respond and need to win. We did. I was surprised the competition was going to be commercial-free, I wasn't able to go completely, after talking to TNT, without them, but I was able to schedule doing Punk vs. Sydal commercial-free. I thought it was more impressive given that I was forced to take a couple of breaks. It was great of TNT to work with us on short notice to push our break back so that we could have that match uninterrupted. It's not up to us when our show is on. In this case, somebody moved aggressively in our time slot and it's really important for us to do a good number and win the night and we did.

"I really wanted to rally the fans and put some attention on it and I also really believed we were going to win and we did. *We've done really well in the demo, which is the thing advertisers and TV networks use to rate the shows. I know TNT was over the moon and just very excited about how we did.* We put our chips in."









Tony Khan: It's Laughable For Eric Bischoff To Say 'Stay Quiet,' We Needed To Win And We Did | Fightful News


Tony Khan gives the most detailed answer ever.



www.fightful.com


----------



## Seth Grimes

THANOS said:


> TV Contracts drive both companies' largest revenue stream.
> 
> I don't care about TV channels, as long as I can reach the product. It doesn't matter what I think. The topic is what means the most to this thread itself.


And why do we care what money they're making? We may as well start saying "haha, AEW sucks because they didn't get paid by Saudi Arabia" with this logic

Seems a lot of people care when they're in here arguing as if they are getting paid when AEW do


----------



## Seth Grimes

3venflow said:


> Looking past the Bischoff stuff, some Interesting comments from Khan here about Rampage's head-to-head win over Smackdown. Once more pointing out what the advertisers and networks care about (18-49 demo).
> 
> "When we got the head-to-head competition, I thought we need to respond and need to win. We did. I was surprised the competition was going to be commercial-free, I wasn't able to go completely, after talking to TNT, without them, but I was able to schedule doing Punk vs. Sydal commercial-free. I thought it was more impressive given that I was forced to take a couple of breaks. It was great of TNT to work with us on short notice to push our break back so that we could have that match uninterrupted. It's not up to us when our show is on. In this case, somebody moved aggressively in our time slot and it's really important for us to do a good number and win the night and we did.
> 
> "I really wanted to rally the fans and put some attention on it and I also really believed we were going to win and we did. *We've done really well in the demo, which is the thing advertisers and TV networks use to rate the shows. I know TNT was over the moon and just very excited about how we did.* We put our chips in."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tony Khan: It's Laughable For Eric Bischoff To Say 'Stay Quiet,' We Needed To Win And We Did | Fightful News
> 
> 
> Tony Khan gives the most detailed answer ever.
> 
> 
> 
> www.fightful.com


Oh shutup. Unless you work for AEW why else do you care how much money they COULD be making through a demo.


----------



## 3venflow

Seth Grimes said:


> Oh shutup. Unless you work for AEW why else do you care how much money they COULD be making through a demo.


Look at the thread title. It's a thread to discuss ratings, buyrates and other such things. Profits and losses go hand in hand with them. Whether anyone cares personally is irrelevant, some (like me) just find the business side interesting.

You're probably in the wrong thread if you can't handle this kind of discussion that has been going on for two years now.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1436213915168514053


----------



## Geeee

The Legit DMD said:


> *
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450693723881418756*


I feel like "Meltzer is an idiot" is a view commonly held by both sides.

Nielsen ranks shows based on the 18-49 demo. Thus giving us numerous "Dusty finishes" every week in the ratings ranking.


----------



## Seth Grimes

3venflow said:


> Look at the thread title. It's a thread to discuss ratings, buyrates and other such things. Profits and losses go hand in hand with them. Whether anyone cares personally is irrelevant, some (like me) just find the business side interesting.
> 
> You're probably in the wrong thread if you can't handle this kind of discussion that has been going on for two years now.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1436213915168514053


Okay fair enough, sorry for being so aggressive, but people in this thread care DEARLY about a so-called demo that means almost nothing. If they didn't, they wouldn't constantly mention them outside of this thread, in which they do. If you find the business side interesting that's cool, I shouldn't have automatically assumed you were in that group that thinks that it's some sort of metric of proof that AEW is better than WWE. Well I wish it would stay in this thread, but it doesn't, I'm only here because of that. I've never once cared about the demo of any sort of thing in my entire life, including wrestling, but the last few months I just keep seeing AEW fans bringing it up in WWE vs AEW threads and I thought "okay, seems like a load of shit but I guess I'll go see what it's about", just to find out they're handpicking certain groups of people to say that's a win, because advertisers will be happy like, WHAT? But yeah, again, my bad man I shouldn't have told you to shut up


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Seth Grimes said:


> And why do we care what money they're making? We may as well start saying "haha, AEW sucks because they didn't get paid by Saudi Arabia" with this logic
> 
> Seems a lot of people care when they're in here arguing as if they are getting paid when AEW do


*More importantly, Vince is making more money with low 18-49 demos than he ever did at wrestling's peak, and he's definitely not struggling with getting advertisers. *


----------



## Seth Grimes

The Legit DMD said:


> *More importantly, Vince is making more money with low 18-49 demos than he ever did at wrestling's peak, and he's definitely not struggling with getting advertisers. *


Yeah I've read a few articles from the last few years claiming that advertisers don't even focus younger people as much these days, because the younger audience is streaming illegally, watching netflix, far less receptive to seeing ads, and that the advertisers still targeting the young are simply just following an old model from the 1970's where it was a lot more cut and dry. 



https://www.marketingcharts.com/featured-105414



This shows that downward trend of younger audiences leaving behind TV


----------



## 3venflow

Seth Grimes said:


> Yeah I've read a few articles from the last few years claiming that advertisers don't even focus younger people as much these days, because the younger audience is streaming illegally, watching netflix, far less receptive to seeing ads, and that the advertisers still targeting the young are simply just following an old model from the 1970's where it was a lot more cut and dry.


It's exactly because so many have left 'live TV' that networks still want the 18-49s and are paying, overpaying even, for the top performing shows - and why AEW will get a bump in their next TV deal.

The reason WWE got the huge deal is because even though its ratings (18-49 and total viewers) have declined, so have most others and they still rank very highly in the key demo - usually #1 for RAW and Smackdown. That makes them valuable for networks who are trying to reach as many 18-49s as they can. Ditto live sports, who also have seen a ratings decline on average but command more money than ever because they draw huge numbers of 18-49s.

RAW and Smackdown's average ranking in the 18-49 (black column) up to 2019:



















It's also why AEW is considered an upstart success with their 18-49 ratings which often sees them also at #1 on cable. Even Rampage has been #1 some weeks.


----------



## 3venflow

Not sure what Cody means exactly by 'seismic shift', but this is interesting:

-

Everyone is weighing in on the AEW Rampage vs. WWE Smackdown head-to-head, and you can count Cody Rhodes among that “everyone.” Rhodes was a guest on Kevin & Cory and discussed Rampage beating Smackdown in the head-to-head numbers and more. You can check out some highlights below, per Fightful:

*On the head-to-head win:* “It’s a bigger deal for them [WWE]. I don’t mean to sound bullish or anything like that, but if they were under the impression that they were going to win in that key demo, there are plenty of people behind the scenes at WWE who are brilliant and great people, but I think there are people in the industry, non-wrestlers, people who have never even stepped in the ring, who are leading them down a business path while the business isn’t there. We’re an alternative, they’re the juggernaut of this space, we’re the alternative brand.”

*On there being a “seismic shift” in the industry right now:* If you’re looking at metrics and you work in the offices of that company, you do have to be aware that there is a seismic, _seismic_, earth-shattering shift in the wrestling business. The last time there was this type of shift, was in the mid-80s when WWE was taking every territory because he had the TV and they were making a better product and they deserve all the praise they did, but it’s definitely an unreal time.

“As someone who is an executive in the company that is making these moves; you ask me when I’m standing in the ring with a microphone in my hand and I’m gonna give you the most competent answer, but it is also very overwhelming to be sitting here and talking to you guys, that’s the responsibility. Great power, great responsibility. If the fans are choosing us and not the others, we have to make sure we give them everything they want and continue to give them the promise of a wrestling company led by wrestlers and Tony has done such a great job in terms of doing that, really led the ship in a great way.”









411MANIA | Cody Rhodes Says There’s a ‘Seismic Shift’ In the Industry Right Now, Talks AEW vs. WWE Ratings


Everyone is weighing in on the AEW Rampage vs. WWE Smackdown head-to-head, and you can count Cody Rhodes among that “everyone.”




411mania.com


----------



## Seth Grimes

3venflow said:


> It's exactly because so many have left 'live TV' that networks still want the 18-49s and are paying, overpaying even, for the top performing shows - and why AEW will get a bump in their next TV deal.
> 
> The reason WWE got the huge deal is because even though its ratings (18-49 and total viewers) have declined, so have most others and they still rank very highly in the key demo - usually #1 for RAW and Smackdown. That makes them valuable for networks who are trying to reach as many 18-49s as they can. Ditto live sports, who also have seen a ratings decline on average but command more money than ever because they draw huge numbers of 18-49s.
> 
> RAW and Smackdown's average ranking in the 18-49 (black column) up to 2019:
> 
> View attachment 110480
> 
> 
> View attachment 110479
> 
> 
> It's also why AEW is considered an upstart success with their 18-49 ratings which often sees them also at #1 on cable. Even Rampage has been #1 some weeks.


In one of the articles I read it did say that many advertisers have shifted to an all demo style, because although they typically focus the younger audience, the fact there are more people in the older demo means they wanna try get them all. Not exactly sure what classes as "all age advertising", but yeah. I rarely ever see ads anywhere, so someone else might be able to tell me what wrestling companies are usually advertising on their shows. I see the occasional movie being promoted, but that's it


----------



## bdon

RoganJosh said:


> This is quite petty and demonstrates the snowflake society we live in today. Clearly the poster had no racist intent behind his comments.
> 
> The other day I was banned for a week. I had no idea why, but once the ban had been lifted I could see that it was because I had made reference to Ruby Soho having a hook nose. I was apparently being racist or anti semitic by commenting on her hook nose hence the banning. I meant it in the literal sense that she had a hook looking nose, I had no idea that Jews were referred to as hook nosed people?? Well according to @Firefromthegods anyway. Anyway I didn't bother to argue with him. The point is you need to watch every little thing you say in case some snowflake takes offence.


Well, the racial epithet is actually “Jew nose” and refers to what you’re suggesting. It’s akin to mocking black people for big lips, Asians for having slanted eyes, and white folks for having 2 parents and a credit score over 750. Lol

It’s not about being a “snowflake” or not. It’s about having some empathy for a race or creed’s history of mockery.

Race relations are one of the most complex and nuanced discussions in America.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I kinda have a funny story about this sort of thing
> 
> couple years back when I was still running ad team i worked for this global company. We had a meeting of all the sales directors from all over the world - India, Spain, South Africa, UK, USA, Russia, Japan and a couple more
> 
> It was my turn for my demographic presentation and I was explaining the ZA demo, which was pretty profitable then
> 
> I explained we were 70% African Black, 12% White, 10% Indian and 8% Coloured.
> 
> Now - ‘Coloured’ is an actual ethnic group in South Africa. When the EU settlers came here in 1600s they found the indigenous Khoi and San people. Through the years the groups mixed and today this is known as the ‘Coloured’ community - and Proudly so / fiercely protective of their identity
> 
> As I said ‘Coloured’ the American sales director got a massive huff in his step. He told me I am being massively racist and I cannot say ‘coloured’ and its disrespectful and the funniest thing is he said: ‘You should call them African American’
> 
> 
> ….
> 
> 
> he said, I should call a South African ethnic group ‘African American’ - let that shit sink in for a moment. It was hilarious - i burst out laughing and then explained the whole thing. The guy was so wrong on so many levels (african american being the worst of it)
> 
> but how could I be mad? He legit did not know what I was talking about
> 
> and he was overtly sensitive about something he did not understand


To him, you referenced African Black, which covers black people that were born in Africa. “Colored” is an American derogatory reference used by white men in regards to African-Americans.


----------



## DaSlacker

African Black.... Why have I now got in my mind Malakai Black with an Akeem gimmick. Both fascinating and surreal lol.


----------



## THANOS

Seth Grimes said:


> And why do we care what money they're making? We may as well start saying "haha, AEW sucks because they didn't get paid by Saudi Arabia" with this logic
> 
> Seems a lot of people care when they're in here arguing as if they are getting paid when AEW do


Why are you in this thread then? This is the ratings thread is it not? I would think the only people viewing or posting in here are doing so because they find it interesting.

I work in finance, so it's interesting to me, but I can easily understand why some would not find it interesting.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> To him, you referenced African Black, which covers black people that were born in Africa. “Colored” is an American derogatory reference used by white men in regards to African-Americans.


i know - that was the point of the story

he got offended without knowing shit, and by suggesting i change it, was actually the racist and disrespectful one without understanding the context of what was being discussed


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i know - that was the point of the story
> 
> he got offended without knowing shit, and by suggesting i change it, was actually the racist and disrespectful one without understanding the context of what was being discussed


How was he being racist? That word is not used in our lexicon. You had already referenced African born black people and were now referencing another demographic.

He showed his ignorance of the ethnicities, but I fail to see how it made him racist.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> How was he being racist? That word is not used in our lexicon. You had already referenced African born black people and were now referencing another demographic.
> 
> He showed his ignorance of the ethnicities, but I fail to see how it made him racist.


eh, racist might've been the wrong word

ignorant maybe - but demanding an ethnic group change their name to 'African American' is kinda.... y'know - out there 

like racist in reverse maybe? like thinking all Black people should be called African American?

good intention, bad execution


----------



## Erik.

Seth Grimes said:


> Something something AEW loyalist, something something WWE shill. Got anything more interesting to say than that?


Haven't you got a tribal chief to acknowledge, grown adult?


----------



## Erik.

The Legit DMD said:


> *He has nothing insightful to add, ever. Just AEW good, WWE bad.*


Says you. That's awfully rich.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Erik. said:


> Says you. That's awfully rich.


* Quote me when you actually have a coherent stance on a topic instead of a corny one liner.*


----------



## Erik.

The Legit DMD said:


> * Quote me when you actually have a coherent stance on a topic instead of a corny one liner.*


At me, instead of discussing me to another poster like a coward.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Erik. said:


> At me, instead of discussing me to another poster like a coward.


*You're not worth engaging. Like I said, quote me when you actually have a coherent argument, because all you're doing is proving my point. *


----------



## Erik.

The Legit DMD said:


> *You're not worth engaging. Like I said, quote me when you actually have a coherent argument, because all you're doing is proving my point. *


Again, says you. A laughing stock of the community that dates back years when you were banned from posting in the chat box for being an unlikeable prick.

Boldening your font because you think it makes you relevant. It just makes people notice what posts to skip beyond when you're dribbling out your nonsensical copy and paste opinions.

But yes, feel free to not engage me. Ignore me if you must. Itd be a pleasure.


----------



## CM Buck

@Erik. @The Legit DMD you're both pretty. Now Erik stop with the insults outside of rants. And legit stop with the clique bait shit. If you got something you want to say to Erik do it directly.


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Firefromthegods said:


> @Erik. @The Legit DMD *you're both pretty*...


Freudian slip!


----------



## La Parka

Firefromthegods said:


> @Erik. @The Legit DMD you're both pretty


woah. 

firefromthegods makin a play here


----------



## CM Buck

Pentagon Senior said:


> Freudian slip!


Was watching burn notice before and Michael Weston said it lol

But My overall point stands.

@La Parka prison changes a man. Eventually cat had to go back to her husband. #whathappensinfolsom


----------



## yeahright2

Dynamite ratings from Saturday?? I can´t seem to find them


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Pentagon Senior said:


> Freudian slip!


not even close

have you seen @The Legit DMD 's photo? dude is one hot patootie 

FFTG making his play


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> Dynamite ratings from Saturday?? I can´t seem to find them


its in this thread mate - 772 i think


----------



## CM Buck

Guys guys I'm comfortable with my sexuality. I've yet to meet an ugly Erik. Though Eric bana has his good and bad sides.

And as the wayans say boss is a beautiful chocolate man


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> its in this thread mate - 772 i think


This thread is bloated  

Edit. I found them on the net, 727K


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> This thread is bloated


I just had coleslaw… so I’m too


----------



## Seth Grimes

Erik. said:


> Haven't you got a tribal chief to acknowledge, grown adult?


So that's a no


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Firefromthegods said:


> @Erik. @The Legit DMD you're both pretty. Now Erik stop with the insults outside of rants. And legit stop with the clique bait shit. If you got something you want to say to Erik do it directly.


*It's not baiting. I'm not engaging with someone who contributes nothing to the thread besides flaming and corny one liners, because you get exchanges like that, which literally proved my points.*


----------



## yeahright2

Sorry for the delay in the ratings game
AEW Ratings prediction game
We all expected a drop in viewers, so no real surprises here. @DaveRA took it this week -first win? Congratulations


----------



## Pentagon Senior

LifeInCattleClass said:


> not even close
> 
> have you seen @The Legit DMD 's photo? dude is one hot patootie
> 
> FFTG making his play


I have not! Where would I find such a thing 🤔

Can't blame FFTG we all get horny from time to time, but probably best kept to private messages rather than a public thread


----------



## Prosper

You guys are some freak-a-leaks lol


----------



## ThunderNitro

Wish Dynamite never had to move to Saturdays.


----------



## 3venflow

In Dynamite's place on TNT last night, NHL did a 0.17 rating in the 18-49 demographic and 542,000 viewers, finishing #31 on cable.

#1 on cable was MLB which aired on TBS in the timeslot Dynamite is going to have. That scored 1.35 in the 18-49 and 5.33m viewers on average. Does that mean AEW faces preemptions on TBS too?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> In Dynamite's place on TNT last night, NHL did a 0.17 rating in the 18-49 demographic and 542,000 viewers, finishing #31 on cable.
> 
> #1 on cable was MLB which aired on TBS in the timeslot Dynamite is going to have. That scored 1.35 in the 18-49 and 5.33m viewers on average. Does that mean AEW faces preemptions on TBS too?


NHL ain’t shit


----------



## 3venflow

The ad money must either be insane for NHL or Warner feel indebted to the crazy amount of money they paid for rights.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1451303587326398465


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Never thought I'd say this, but Tony Khan deserves better. This product has far more viewers than the NHL. Literally double in the same slot. It will suck if they get booted by the MLB and end up in the same situation on a different channel.*


----------



## Botchy SinCara

The Legit DMD said:


> *Never thought I'd say this, but Tony Khan deserves better. This product has far more viewers than the NHL. Literally double in the same slot. It will suck if they get booted by the MLB and end up in the same situation on a different channel.*



Yeah seems Turner will always value sports over wreslting..the ad money must be good


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

let it sink in lads - Dynamite > NHL

puts it a little into perspective i think


----------



## One Shed

The NHL is like your girlfriend's friend who has to tag along because she has nothing else going for her and you feel obligated to pay for her meal too since you want to get some from your girlfriend.


----------



## Garty

3venflow said:


> In Dynamite's place on TNT last night, NHL did a 0.17 rating in the 18-49 demographic and 542,000 viewers, finishing #31 on cable.
> 
> #1 on cable was MLB which aired on TBS in the timeslot Dynamite is going to have. That scored 1.35 in the 18-49 and 5.33m viewers on average. Does that mean AEW faces preemptions on TBS too?


Don't let @La Parka read this, he'll have a heart attack.  

Seriously though, the MLB game took away some viewers and dropped less than I thought, but it still won't maintain this high of a number even in a few weeks (or whenever the NHL airs on TNT, other than a Wednesday). We're just over two months away from the switch to TBS.


----------



## yeahright2

Shameless plug for the ratings game 
AEW Ratings prediction game


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> let it sink in lads - Dynamite > NHL
> 
> puts it a little into perspective i think


I just read that due to NHL Dynamite has to move to 10pm and 11pm in some time zones in the US until the end of the year. So much for Dynamite > NHL in the eyes of TNT 

Edit: and what this really shows is what the demo of wrestling is worth…


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> I just read that due to NHL Dynamite has to move to 10pm and 11pm in some time zones in the US until the end of the year. So much for Dynamite > NHL in the eyes of TNT
> 
> Edit: and what this really shows is what the demo of wrestling is worth…


I meant in the eyes of the viewing public

TNT obvs rate NHL higher - they paid more money for it, its more legitimate and most likely earns more per second of ad revenue

can't get away that more people watch Dynamite though


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dave has learned from his 2019 misunderstanding of demo vs total


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1451397762986045443


----------



## Whoanma

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Dave has learned from his 2019 misunderstanding of demo vs total
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1451397762986045443


----------



## THANOS

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Dave has learned from his 2019 misunderstanding of demo vs total
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1451397762986045443


And there we go.


----------



## bdon

3venflow said:


> The ad money must either be insane for NHL or Warner feel indebted to the crazy amount of money they paid for rights.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1451303587326398465


I FUCKING TOLD THE WOOD AND OTHERS THAT NHL DOESN’T DO SHIT IN THE RATINGS!!

I DARE someone to argue it.


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> The NHL is like your girlfriend's friend who has to tag along because she has nothing else going for her and you feel obligated to pay for her meal too since you want to get some from your girlfriend.


And on the sly…you know those little acts of kindness may always build the foundation for side fun. Haha


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> And on the sly…you know those little acts of kindness may always build the foundation for side fun. Haha


Yes, as recommended in the Guy Handbook that all men are issued by law.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Dave has learned from his 2019 misunderstanding of demo vs total
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1451397762986045443


Come on man...not you but him

Dave changed his mind on all of this around the time AEW kicked off and started winning the demo against WWE. Nobody told him shit the narrative simply changed so that he could regularly give AEW the win.

I don't buy that for his twenty plus year journalism career nobody said in like...1995 "Oh hey Meltz, it's actually the demo that matters"


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1451724776087621632

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Not Lying

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1451724776087621632
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Did the Bucks tank the ratings? 😉

@LifeInCattleClass 
@The Legit DMD


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> Did the Bucks tank the ratings? 😉
> 
> @LifeInCattleClass
> @The Legit DMD


*It appears so. Nothing new. The streak continues!*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Page and Bryan doing nothing for those final two quarters when they're two of the more popular guys in the company right now is pretty bizarre. It seems the second half of the show as a whole is what really struggled. 

Still was an overall solid number for a Saturday show, but I don't think we have any Saturday episode breakdowns to really compare this one to.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Definition of Technician said:


> Did the Bucks tank the ratings? 😉
> 
> @LifeInCattleClass
> @The Legit DMD


just the overall - but they got the key demo to go up

obvs over 50s can‘t handle their magnificence

i declare everybody who hates the bucks to be a dried up, over 50 decrepit old fossil

hussah!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Come on man...not you but him
> 
> Dave changed his mind on all of this around the time AEW kicked off and started winning the demo against WWE. Nobody told him shit the narrative simply changed so that he could regularly give AEW the win.
> 
> I don't buy that for his twenty plus year journalism career nobody said in like...1995 "Oh hey Meltz, it's actually the demo that matters"


lol if you think i rate or trust Dave about anything at all

he’s in the same boat as Cornette for me


----------



## Seth Grimes

I would LOVE AEW to beat Smackdown on total viewership, and then somehow have Smackdown take the demo, JUST so we can see all the people try to justify why total viewership is better than the demo, after spending years arguing the opposite. Would make for some gr8 content


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Seth Grimes said:


> I would LOVE AEW to beat Smackdown on total viewership, and then somehow have Smackdown take the demo, JUST so we can see all the people try to justify why total viewership is better than the demo, after spending years arguing the opposite. Would make for some gr8 content


hey, its our thread

we’ll chance our stance at the drop of a dime as long as we win


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> hey, its our thread
> 
> we’ll chance our stance at the drop of a dime as long as we win


I know you are joking and want to tickle our balls, but most of the guys in here are actually arguing like that  and what exactly did YOU win?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> I know you are joking and want to tickle our balls, but most of the guys in here are actually arguing like that  and what exactly did YOU win?


i won at life brother 

also… when i tickle somebodies’ balls, i think they won


----------



## 3venflow

Good early ticket sales for the Georgia show:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1451720757399142403
The Virginia debut which could be Hangman's homecoming as champ:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1451626697896382474
CM Punk will definitely wrestle here:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1451646140601061381


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i won at life brother
> 
> also… when i tickle somebodies’ balls, i think they won


You definitelly won at life, so you are free to say „we“ whenever you fancy 

and the other part only can be approved when I come down to SA (or at the moment go left).


----------



## DammitChrist

Seth Grimes said:


> I would LOVE AEW to beat Smackdown on total viewership, and then somehow have Smackdown take the demo, JUST so we can see all the people try to justify why total viewership is better than the demo, after spending years arguing the opposite. Would make for some gr8 content


Honestly, I’m on the fence where I believe that both of those factors matter.


----------



## La Parka




----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> You definitelly won at life, so you are free to say „we“ whenever you fancy
> 
> and the other part only can be approved when I come down to SA (or at the moment go left).


whahahaa!

maybe i’ll just cook us steaks and get some beers


----------



## 3venflow

– During a recent interview with Josh Martinez for Z100 New York, AEW President Tony Khan discussed how CM Punk and Bryan Danielson have changed AEW’s business and Sting’s relationship with Darby Allin. Below are some highlights (via WrestlingInc.com):

*Tony Khan on how CM Punk has changed AEW’s business:* “It totally changed our business, the arrival of CM Punk. Him coming in has lifted at least six different business metrics, and all the big ones, and it’s really great what he’s done for us in terms of our TV ratings, our live events, our pay-per-view numbers, which have hit a record high. And we’ve never done merchandising like this. It’s amazing, and it’s really awesome to have him, but also, his debut match was a great match against Darby Allin. And that event, The First Dance, it was kind of, wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

“The idea that Punk and I had sat down together, we came up with. He wanted to have his debut be a surprise. I wanted to get all of the business, so how do we do both? And we came up with this great idea, which is make it the world’s worst kept secret. We sat down together and I had this language for Darby, and nobody knew what Darby was gonna say in his promo but me and Punk. I gave Darby this line, which was ‘anybody can come to AEW and that’s where you prove if you’re the greatest, even if you think you’re the best in the world.’ And that line, it totally woke up a lot of people. It got a huge pop in the arena. People couldn’t believe it, and that’s when everyone really knew.”

*On Bryan Danielson joining AEW:* “He’s been another huge lift to our business. I think a lot of people, in addition to the debut of CM Punk in AEW, his first match at All Out, we set business records for this pay-per-view and people really loved it. That was the best part was it’s the most pay-per-views we’ve ever sold, and it was the best response any wrestling pay-per-views gotten in years, and Bryan Danielson, his debut was the cherry on top moment. CM Punk’s first match, and then this moment at the end where Adam Cole arrives, we reform The Elite. We form this new Super Elite, these four back together for the first time in years. Kenny Omega, The Young Bucks and now with Adam Cole, standing tall. Well, I thought it would be perfect just then, when people thought that was it, to have Bryan Danielson come in and then set these battle lines and put Bryan Danielson on the opposite side, and build up to the Bryan Danielson – Kenny Omega match.”









411MANIA | Tony Khan on How CM Punk & Bryan Danielson Have Changed AEW’s Business


AEW President Tony Khan discussed how CM Punk and Bryan Danielson have changed the AEW business model, Sting & Darby Allin, and more.




411mania.com


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> whahahaa!
> 
> maybe i’ll just cook us steaks and get some beers


Red wine for me please


----------



## Seth Grimes

DammitChrist said:


> Honestly, I’m on the fence where I believe that both of those factors matter.


I'm of the opinion that neither of them matter to us as viewers, I see the guys in this thread like Evenflow who are into that kinda shit, which is cool. But I just think the rest of us should be able to watch without caring how many others are, and certainly not caring how many advertisers will be happy haha


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

See Rampage did 511k this week, down 11% in viewers. 

Demo: 272k, down 13% from last week.

Not too good.


----------



## TheFiend666

Chip Chipperson said:


> Come on man...not you but him
> 
> Dave changed his mind on all of this around the time AEW kicked off and started winning the demo against WWE. Nobody told him shit the narrative simply changed so that he could regularly give AEW the win.
> 
> I don't buy that for his twenty plus year journalism career nobody said in like...1995 "Oh hey Meltz, it's actually the demo that matters"


Facts....Dave is just making up shit at this point


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> See Rampage did 511k this week, down 11% in viewers.
> 
> Demo: 272k, down 13% from last week.
> 
> Not too good.


wait until monday - those’ll be fast nationals

final will be up


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

LifeInCattleClass said:


> wait until monday - those’ll be fast nationals
> 
> final will be up


Ah okay, so probably a 30-50k bump I presume?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Ah okay, so probably a 30-50k bump I presume?


i dunno - it varies

don’t know based on what


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Ah okay, so probably a 30-50k bump I presume?


*I've seen upwards of 100k.*


----------



## Soul Rex

Can somebody whip Tony Khan's nerdy ass on live TV.

Dynamite and Rampage will get a above 3 million viewers guarantee.


----------



## THANOS

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Page and Bryan doing nothing for those final two quarters when they're two of the more popular guys in the company right now is pretty bizarre. It seems the second half of the show as a whole is what really struggled.
> 
> Still was an overall solid number for a Saturday show, but I don't think we have any Saturday episode breakdowns to really compare this one to.


I would blame it on Saturday and call it an anomaly at this point.

Bryan's been a big draw for years and Page segments have always drawn in AEW. Too soon to draw any conclusions.


----------



## DaSlacker

Soul Rex said:


> Can somebody whip Tony Khan's nerdy ass on live TV.
> 
> Dynamite and Rampage will get a above 3 million viewers guarantee.


I'm convinced Khan will move towards being a regular on TV at some point. A full blown deranged and entitled megalomaniac character. Followed by his dad appearing on TV to remove him from power. 

He's a huge fan of Bischoff era WCW and back then they did a similar angle with the real life head of Turner Sports.


----------



## Soul Rex

DaSlacker said:


> I'm convinced Khan will move towards being a regular on TV at some point. A full blown deranged and entitled megalomaniac character. Followed by his dad appearing on TV to remove him from power.
> 
> *He's a huge fan of Bischoff era WCW and back then they did a similar angle with the real life head of Turner Sports.*


Really? The way he runs his product would rather indicate he is a bigger fan of Ring Of Honor.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1452660492347093002

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Smark1995

Lost to replay


----------



## Smark1995

This is _embarrassing_ no matter how you look at it!


----------



## RainmakerV2

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1452660492347093002
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk












You know what to do


----------



## PavelGaborik

That's pretty pathetic even on a Saturday. 

Hopefully they continue to plummet until they start booking the show properly.


----------



## PavelGaborik

RainmakerV2 said:


> View attachment 110789
> 
> 
> You know what to do


WWE ratings have shit the bed tremendously since they've pushed that twerp as the face of the company


----------



## RainmakerV2

PavelGaborik said:


> WWE ratings have shit the bed tremendously since they've pushed that twerp as the face of the company



Yet his replays beat Cody vs. Black, Eddie vs. Lance, and Daniel vs Dustin lol.




Acknowledge that.


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> Yet his replays beat Cody vs. Black, Eddie vs. Lance, and Daniel vs Dustin lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Acknowledge that.


He recently tied to a woman who was in the lower midcard (who they fired btw), and to the freaking Bunny 😂

We won't do that.



Smark1995 said:


> Lost to replay


I BET you'll be silent on Thursday


----------



## RainmakerV2

DammitChrist said:


> He recently tied to a woman who was in the lower midcard (who they fired btw), and to the freaking Bunny 😂
> 
> We won't do that.



Dynamite had 3 big matches and lost to a replay lol. Soak it in when you win sure, but don't be a crybaby when you don't.


----------



## 3venflow

Did WWE also leak the demos? If not, it probably means Dynamite finishes higher than Smackdown in the top 150. Even so, that average viewership is really low, lower than Rampage perhaps.


----------



## kazarn

Dynamite lost to SD replay but it's okay, wait for the demo!


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> Dynamite had 3 big matches and lost to a replay lol. Soak it in when you win sure, but don't be a crybaby when you don't.


You were noticeably upset last week though, so let's not assume that anyone here is "crying."


----------



## RainmakerV2

DammitChrist said:


> You were noticeably upset last week though, so let's not assume that anyone here is "crying."



It has to stick in your craw that more people spent their Saturday night watching a replay of a 40 minute Reigns/Lesnar promo segment than all the great "wrestling matches " on Dynamite. I'll leave you to marinate on that.


----------



## La Parka

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1452660492347093002
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


people would rather watch Roman a second time over the dub.











HAIL THE TRIBAL CHEIF


----------



## 3venflow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1452666272991244288
AEW returning to Garland before Christmas.

Last two shows there did 4,700 (12/11/19) and 5,688 (7/21/21).


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> It has to stick in your craw that more people spent their Saturday night watching a replay of a 40 minute Reigns/Lesnar promo segment than all the great "wrestling matches " on Dynamite. I'll leave you to marinate on that.


Oh, are you randomly taking a shot at the good wrestling matches because you're upset at the fact that NXT 2.0 has been a hilarious flop so far (with the sudden focus on "CHARACTERS/SIZE"), and they're doing lower/worse numbers now compared to Indy NXT where more folks enjoyed watching the good workrate?

CM Punk already embarrassed both those men last week too with how more younger viewers would rather watch his good wrestling match against a lower-midcarder over 2 overpushed acts in a redundant contract signing 



La Parka said:


> people would rather watch Roman a second time over the dub.
> 
> 
> View attachment 110790
> 
> 
> HAIL THE TRIBAL CHEIF


Dude, he couldn't even outperform the BUNNY.


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1452666272991244288
> AEW returning to Garland before Christmas.
> 
> Last two shows there did 4,700 (12/11/19) and 5,688 (7/21/21).


Much credit to how quickly they've established certain cities as bases to frequent.


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> He recently tied to a woman who was in the lower midcard (who they fired btw), and to the freaking Bunny
> 
> We won't do that.
> 
> 
> 
> I BET you'll be silent on Thursday





DammitChrist said:


> Oh, are you randomly taking a shot at the good wrestling matches because you're upset at the fact that NXT 2.0 has been a hilarious flop so far (with the sudden focus on "CHARACTERS/SIZE"), and they're doing lower/worse numbers now compared to Indy NXT where more folks enjoyed watching the good workrate?
> 
> CM Punk already embarrassed both those men last week too with how more younger viewers would rather watch his good wrestling match against a lower-midcarder over 2 overpushed acts in a redundant contract signing
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, he couldn't even outperform the BUNNY.


----------



## fabi1982

DammitChrist said:


> Dude, he couldn't even outperform the BUNNY.


and thats the sad part for AEW in my opinion, TK mobilized his followers, who would have watched just „to stick it to Vince“, so they didnt care what was on. Now this week shows that people dont really care for AEW but to beat WWE. At least the ones watching last week after couple days of TK on coke twitter rant.


----------



## PavelGaborik

RainmakerV2 said:


> Yet his replays beat Cody vs. Black, Eddie vs. Lance, and Daniel vs Dustin lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Acknowledge that.


That's not all that impressive considering AEW drew a pitiful 500k viewers.

Roman is a terrible wrestler and has turned more fans away from wrestling than any Wrestler I've seen in modern history.

Oh, and his matches absolutely fucking suck balls.

He also lost the key demo to the Bunny last week head to head.

Acknowledge that.


----------



## Hitman1987

RapShepard said:


>


How does the demo actually work? For example, AEW rampage has a 0.34 in the male 18-49. Does that mean that 34% of the total viewership figure (571k) was in the male 18-49 bracket? Or is it derived some other way?


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1452702634851307532

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RapShepard

Hitman1987 said:


> How does the demo actually work? For example, AEW rampage has a 0.34 in the male 18-49. Does that mean that 34% of the total viewership figure (571k) was in the male 18-49 bracket? Or is it derived some other way?


I have no idea lol.


----------



## 3venflow

It means 0.34% of males between the ages of 18 and 49 who were watching cable watched Rampage.

A better explanation from Hollywood Reporter:

_Ratings are essentially percentages, measuring the portion of a given group — be it households, adults 18-49 or women 25-54 — watching a given show. Adults 18-49 is the primary demographic by which ad rates are set for entertainment programming, so it’s the most commonly reported (one point in that demo equals 1.28 million people). So a 2.0 rating for The Masked Singer means that 2 percent of people in that age range, roughly 2.56 million people, watched the show._


----------



## CM Dunk05

Always cracks me up how people get so defensive when talking about ratings each week. Brilliant entertainment for someone like me who doesn’t give a shit either way. keep it up guys


----------



## SuperstarSlyme

Kinda discouraging but we all know Dynamite does shit in the Saturday slot anyways so what did anyone expect lol. The E petty as hell tho for having a SmackDown! replay head to head lol, they might be ahead due to legacy/longevity/brand awareness but anyone who doesnt think the E isnt at least a lil bit concerned/interested in AEW just drinking the kool aid lol


----------



## validreasoning

DammitChrist said:


> Oh, are you randomly taking a shot at the good wrestling matches because you're upset at the fact that NXT 2.0 has been a hilarious flop so far (with the sudden focus on "CHARACTERS/SIZE"), and they're doing lower/worse numbers now compared to Indy NXT where more folks enjoyed watching the good workrate?


Is the actual point of NXT 2.0 to do 'ratings' or bring through talent?

If its the latter then about a dozen people have either debuted or got big character changes over past month and gotten most of them over to an extent so in that sense it's been a success so far


PavelGaborik said:


> That's not all that impressive considering AEW drew a pitiful 500k viewers.
> 
> Roman is a terrible wrestler and has turned more fans away from wrestling than any Wrestler I've seen in modern history.
> 
> Oh, and his matches absolutely fucking suck balls.
> 
> He also lost the key demo to the Bunny last week head to head.
> 
> Acknowledge that.


How has Reigns turned fans away. Explain please

Its funny for a guy who turned so many away things like subscriptions rose.. 












SuperstarSlyme said:


> Kinda discouraging but we all know Dynamite does shit in the Saturday slot anyways so what did anyone expect lol. The E petty as hell tho for having a SmackDown! replay head to head lol, they might be ahead due to legacy/longevity/brand awareness but anyone who doesnt think the E isnt at least a lil bit concerned/interested in AEW just drinking the kool aid lol


If Vince and WWE control the scheduling of one of the biggest media companies on the planet that would be lol

They don't though. Fox aired that replay of SD.


----------



## Kishido

But the demo? You will see! They beat WWE at the demo.

Soon we will have 2 viewers but both with be in demo meaning an 100 % rating


----------



## 3venflow

Kishido said:


> But the demo? You will see! They beat WWE at the demo.
> 
> Soon we will have 2 viewers but both with be in demo meaning an 100 % rating


Make light of it all you want, but if AEW had 1m viewers and a 0.09 demo, they'd probably be cancelled. If they had 500,000 viewers and a 0.30 demo they'd be renewed. That's the reality.

There's a strange willful ignorance in some quarters to how the TV industry works today. Doesn't matter how many industry sources, network heads, or even the company owner himself say it, people still believe P2+ matters as much as it did in the 90s.

Here's someone who covers it professionally:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1451529130370011139


----------



## Kishido

3venflow said:


> Make light of it all you want, but if AEW had 1m viewers and a 0.09 demo, they'd probably be cancelled. If they had 500,000 viewers and a 0.30 demo they'd be renewed. That's the reality.
> 
> There's a strange willful ignorance in some quarters to how the TV industry works today. Here's someone who covers it professionally:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1451529130370011139


Find the mistake. Demo doesn't matter if the damn numbers are way behind. But Jericho and Tony said so and that's why it is important for getting more viewership... Oh wait. 600 k with good demo is enough.

Would really love if shit show RAW would do such numbers with a good demo.


----------



## The XL 2

Smackdown and Dynamite both suck. The state of the business is worse than it's ever been.


----------



## Hitman1987

3venflow said:


> It means 0.34% of males between the ages of 18 and 49 who were watching cable watched Rampage.
> 
> A better explanation from Hollywood Reporter:
> 
> _Ratings are essentially percentages, measuring the portion of a given group — be it households, adults 18-49 or women 25-54 — watching a given show. Adults 18-49 is the primary demographic by which ad rates are set for entertainment programming, so it’s the most commonly reported (one point in that demo equals 1.28 million people). So a 2.0 rating for The Masked Singer means that 2 percent of people in that age range, roughly 2.56 million people, watched the show._


So it’s 34% of total people watching cable instead of 34% of the show’s total viewership?


----------



## validreasoning

The XL 2 said:


> Smackdown and Dynamite both suck. The state of the business is worse than it's ever been.


Thats total bollox anyway. In 93- May 96 Raw was mostly being run out of gyms and 800-1500 seat venues, WCW couldn't run houseshows and were papering 50%+ of their tv shows. I mean the show in Macon where Scott Hall famously walked out on Nitro only 1800 paid in that night, rest was paper.

Wrestlemania 11 still had tickets in the days leading up to the show on sale, venue holds about ~15k...


----------



## 3venflow

Kishido said:


> Find the mistake. Demo doesn't matter if the damn numbers are way behind. But Jericho and Tony said so and that's why it is important for getting more viewership... Oh wait. 600 k with good demo is enough.


Well, viewership is important in the sense you need a decent viewership to have any sort of demo. If you're getting 80,000 people watching, then the demo is going to be low simply because there aren't enough 18-49 viewers. But even at 500,000, you can still do a pleasing demo for the network.

Rhodes to the Top posted some good demo results (for a low budget non-scripted reality show) with fairly low total viewership numbers.

AEW does a million-plus in its normal timeslot and that number is enough to make it the number one show on cable regularly in the key demographic.



> Would really love if shit show RAW would do such numbers with a good demo.


Not quite sure what you're saying here, but RAW's demo has been good most of the time. That's why WWE got a record breaking TV rights deal, because it still had a good share of the 18-49 demo even as its total viewership fell. USA would rather have RAW do 1.5m with 0.45 in the 18-49 than 2m with 0.35 in the 18-49.


----------



## 3venflow

Hitman1987 said:


> So it’s 34% of total people watching cable instead of 34% of the show’s total viewership?


I think it's 0.34% of 18-49 males watching cable in general that day. But I'm not 100% sure.


----------



## validreasoning

3venflow said:


> Make light of it all you want, but if AEW had 1m viewers and a 0.09 demo, they'd probably be cancelled. If they had 500,000 viewers and a 0.30 demo they'd be renewed. That's the reality.
> 
> There's a strange willful ignorance in some quarters to how the TV industry works today. Doesn't matter how many industry sources, network heads, or even the company owner himself say it, people still believe P2+ matters as much as it did in the 90s.
> 
> Here's someone who covers it professionally:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1451529130370011139


Reality is a little different actually.

18-49 is cool and all but it comes down to how much ads are selling during timeslot and how advertisers and the network views the audience. That's what despite those FOX News shows at 8-11pm doing relatively low 18-49 demo at least compared to certain programming their advertising rates are through the roof and the hosts are paid astronomical amounts of money


----------



## Kishido

3venflow said:


> Well, viewership is important in the sense you need a decent viewership to have any sort of demo. If you're getting 80,000 people watching, then the demo is going to be low simply because there aren't enough 18-49 viewers. But even at 500,000, you can still do a pleasing demo for the network.
> 
> Rhodes to the Top posted some good demo results (for a low budget non-scripted reality show) with fairly low total viewership numbers.
> 
> AEW does a million-plus in its normal timeslot and that number is enough to make it the number one show on cable regularly in the key demographic.
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite sure what you're saying here, but RAW's demo has been good most of the time. That's why WWE got a record breaking TV rights deal, because it still had a good share of the 18-49 demo even as its total viewership fell. USA would rather have RAW do 1.5m with 0.45 in the 18-49 than 2m with 0.35 in the 18-49.


What I mean I simple. If RAW would do 500k shows while still doing a good demo people, Meltzer included, would lol at them 

This is simply called double standards. Before AEW no one give a damn fuck about it. Can't remember single week where WWF said damn it we have beaten WCW at demo even if they beat us at total viewership or the other way around. 

And keep in mind. A true fight and not a fake one with being on total different days.

But hey... NXT was at least beaten.


----------



## RainmakerV2

3venflow said:


> Make light of it all you want, but if AEW had 1m viewers and a 0.09 demo, they'd probably be cancelled. If they had 500,000 viewers and a 0.30 demo they'd be renewed. That's the reality.
> 
> There's a strange willful ignorance in some quarters to how the TV industry works today. Doesn't matter how many industry sources, network heads, or even the company owner himself say it, people still believe P2+ matters as much as it did in the 90s.
> 
> Here's someone who covers it professionally:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1451529130370011139



The NHL did 500K in Dynamites slot on TNT. 600k- 1 mil less than AEW normally does. Yet TNT is still moving AEW for it. It goes to show how much legit sports 18-49 matters over wrestling. All this talk about 18-49 when it comes to wrestling is overblown, if it mattered then why is AEW getting moved for a show doing a million less viewers? Because the wrestling stigma is real when it comes to advertisers. It's still seen as low brow entertainment by most fortune 500 companies.


----------



## 3venflow

validreasoning said:


> 18-49 is cool and all but it comes down to how much ads are selling during timeslot and how advertisers and the network views the audience. That's what despite those FOX News shows at 8-11pm doing relatively low 18-49 demo at least compared to certain programming their advertising rates are through the roof and the hosts are paid astronomical amounts of money


Yes, it's true that a 0.20 for a live sport will be worth more than a 0.40 for pro wrestling, but the 18-49 demographic is the most important thing for shows *in general* and that's why the industry standard is to rank shows by that metric.

Tony Khan himself said that he and TNT go over the 18-49 ratings and pay minimal attention to total viewers. That implies or even confirms that AEW's 18-49 ad rates are at least good enough to make that the overwhelming priority for them and the network.

And WWE's TV rights deal even as the P2+ continued it's free fall suggests the same is the case in Stamford. They still have a high share of the 18-49 demo even though total viewership is almost a diagonal line down over the years.

Smackdown was doing better total viewership with Jinder Mahal as champion than Reigns, but the key demo share is probably higher or similar now.


----------



## El Hammerstone

That's embarrassing, there's simply no way around it


----------



## PavelGaborik

validreasoning said:


> Is the actual point of NXT 2.0 to do 'ratings' or bring through talent?
> 
> If its the latter then about a dozen people have either debuted or got big character changes over past month and gotten most of them over to an extent so in that sense it's been a success so far
> 
> How has Reigns turned fans away. Explain please
> 
> Its funny for a guy who turned so many away things like subscriptions rose..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Vince and WWE control the scheduling of one of the biggest media companies on the planet that would be lol
> 
> They don't though. Fox aired that replay of SD.


Using subscribers to a network that literally had every single PPV at one point, as well as most importantly a massive library to determine how popular a current Superstar is, is absolutely absurd. I'm a recent network subscriber, because there's a ton of awesome wrestling stuff in the library, I watch it weekly, yet I haven't watched a full episode of Smackdown or RAW in Christ knows how long. You can count on one hand how many full episodes of RAW/Smackdown I've watched since I subscribed earlier this year, and you'd not even come close to completing the hand. 

The Network doesn't even air Smackdown or RAW until around a month after they air. 

This weekly graph of TV ratings speak for themselves :


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RainmakerV2 said:


> View attachment 110789
> 
> 
> You know what to do


*The REAL Needle Mover. *

@LifeInCattleClass *ACKNOWLEDGE HIM!

A Roman Reigns rerun threw the whole roster out of the club 🤣*


----------



## ProjectGargano

That Dynamite rating was horrible.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

There is so much data on this - I wonder how people can still dispute it

i went to a ratings thing for ABC to see which shows are cancelled - here is what they write on this site / the site has nothing to do with wrestling

_There can be other economic factors involved in a show’s fate, but typically the higher-rated series are renewed and the lower-rated ones are cancelled.

Keep in mind that the demo numbers are typically what’s most important to advertisers. Therefore, that’s how the networks measure success. Advertisers pay more for ad time on a show that has a higher demo rating. Older viewers also matter but younger viewers watch less traditional TV and are therefore harder to reach. Delayed viewing matters more and more these days (if commercials are watched) but live viewing is still advertisers’ ideal.

Demo numbers are typically reported using the 10ths decimal place (2.4, for example). In the averages, I’m using an extra decimal for easier ranking. The networks take into account when shows air on Fridays and Saturdays, nights when TV viewership is lower._

Source: https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/abc-2021-22-tv-season-ratings/


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> @LifeInCattleClass *ACKNOWLEDGE HIM!
> 
> A Roman Reigns rerun threw the whole roster out of the club 🤣*


Acknowledge deez demo nutz


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Acknowledge deez demo nutz


*You know it'll be bad for you if they lost the demo too, right?*


----------



## PavelGaborik

PS: Dynamite is going h2h with the world series Wednesday, I wouldn't expect a big bounce back.

If the series goes 7, they'll be going head to head again next Wednesday.

Shaping up to be an ugly period for AEW.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW Rampage ratings

Viewership: 533,000
18-49: 0.22

Down from last week, up from the week before.


----------



## ProjectGargano

PavelGaborik said:


> PS: Dynamite is going h2h with the world series Wednesday, I wouldn't expect a bit bounce back.
> 
> If the series goes 7, they'll be going head to head again next Wednesday.
> 
> Shaping up to be an ugly period for AEW.


Anything less than 1M will be bad.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Also looks like Dynamite will be TBS’ highest rated show when it moves

these are the top shows - all renewed for a next season


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *You know it'll be bad for you if they lost the demo too, right?*


Nah - I still have the ‘Dynamite was on cable and Smackdown was rerun on basic access Fox with 1billion homes’

c’mon now Legit - you know this MFer has wriggle room


----------



## 3venflow

Rampage finished #9 on cable on Friday.










Dynamite will be live on the west coast:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1452725005876269057


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*This thread for the next week is owned by Roman Reigns. Tony Khan did it to himself. 

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1406067433572605953*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Rampage finished #9 on cable on Friday.
> 
> View attachment 110800
> 
> 
> Dynamite will be live on the west coast:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1452725005876269057


Is being live on the west coast good or bad?

seems that is a tad early - people still driving home from work?


----------



## 3venflow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Is being live on the west coast good or bad?


People on Twitter seem to think it's a big deal (in a good way).


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1452729595963355151


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Is being live on the west coast good or bad?
> 
> seems that is a tad early - people still driving home from work?


Better than the alternative of starting at 11 PM-12 AM like it was due to sports.

Edit: I may be off with the exact times but it is later.


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> Rampage finished #9 on cable on Friday.
> 
> View attachment 110800
> 
> 
> Dynamite will be live on the west coast:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1452725005876269057


Should offer a sizeable boost to ratings I'd imagine


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lol - when you find out the sports on FS1 - the channel ‘that nobody watches’ did a better demo than Smackdown on Fox in the same timeslot

@The Legit DMD


----------



## RapShepard

* Tracking Ratings With Rap Shepard*

Let's see the Rampage numbers without Punk

Rampage #1- 740k .31 demo

Dynamite 8/18- 975k .35 demo

Rampage #2 with Punk- 1.129 million .53 demo

Dynamite 8/25 with Punk- 1.172 million .48 demo

Rampage #3 no Punk- 722k .34 demo

Dynamite 9/1 - 1.047 .37 demo

Rampage #4 with Punk- 696k .30 demo

Dynamite 9/8 with Punk, Bryan, and Cole- 1.31 million .53 demo

Rampage #5 No Punk, Bryan, or Cole- 670k .27 demo

Dynamite 9/15 with Punk, Cole, and Bryan- 1.175 million .44 demo

Rampage #6 no Punk, Cole, or Bryan - 642k .28 demo

Dynamite 9/22 Bryan vs Omega- 1.273 million .48 demo

Rampage #7 Punk vs Hobbs- 640k .28 demo

Dynamite 9/30 with Punk, Bryan, and Cole- 1.152 million .45 demo

Rampage #8 Bryan vs Nick Jackson- 622k .25 demo 

Dynamite 10/6 The Super Elite vs Bryan's ragtag group of merry men- 1.05 million .37 demo 

Rampage 9- 502k .17 demo 

Rampage 10 Bryan vs Sydal- 578k .24 demo beat SmackDown head to head

Dynamite 10/16- 727k .28 demo beat SmackDown in demo outright

Rampage 11- 533k .22 demo


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Do we know how the smackdown recap show did? The one they put against rampage?


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Do we know how the smackdown recap show did? The one they put against rampage?


Those ratings are out tomorrow


----------



## The XL 2

validreasoning said:


> Thats total bollox anyway. In 93- May 96 Raw was mostly being run out of gyms and 800-1500 seat venues, WCW couldn't run houseshows and were papering 50%+ of their tv shows. I mean the show in Macon where Scott Hall famously walked out on Nitro only 1800 paid in that night, rest was paper.
> 
> Wrestlemania 11 still had tickets in the days leading up to the show on sale, venue holds about ~15k...


The business is living off of the residuals of the Attitude Era and the Cena/Batista mini boom and has been doing so for well over a decade. And both AEW and WWE are very lucky the TV deals and other sorts of distribution contracts look the way that they do, if they looked like they did in 1995, they'd be fucked.


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Do we know how the smackdown recap show did? The one they put against rampage?


558k i believe


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Those ratings are out tomorrow


nope - didn’t mean the replay

the recap on friday night they put out right after smackdown / against rampage


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1452737719520698369

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RapShepard

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1452737719520698369
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They definitely need to and should beat the replay in the demo and viewership


----------



## yeahright2

RapShepard said:


> They definitely need to and should beat the replay in the demo and viewership


Spoiler alert; They´re not.


----------



## yeahright2

3venflow said:


> AEW Rampage ratings
> 
> Viewership: 533,000
> 18-49: 0.22
> 
> Down from last week, up from the week before.


any final Dynamite numbers yet?


----------



## 3venflow

yeahright2 said:


> any final Dynamite numbers yet?


They're due tomorrow I think.


----------



## SuperstarSlyme

validreasoning said:


> Is the actual point of NXT 2.0 to do 'ratings' or bring through talent?
> 
> If its the latter then about a dozen people have either debuted or got big character changes over past month and gotten most of them over to an extent so in that sense it's been a success so far
> 
> How has Reigns turned fans away. Explain please
> 
> Its funny for a guy who turned so many away things like subscriptions rose..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Vince and WWE control the scheduling of one of the biggest media companies on the planet that would be lol
> 
> They don't though. Fox aired that replay of SD.


True that, maybe the networks more concerned than the compny either way its at least on their minds to some varying degree


----------



## SuperstarSlyme

And if Fox can air replays of SmackDown! on FS1 to their discretion why did they just now do it ?


----------



## validreasoning

The XL 2 said:


> The business is living off of the residuals of the Attitude Era and the Cena/Batista mini boom and has been doing so for well over a decade. And both AEW and WWE are very lucky the TV deals and other sorts of distribution contracts look the way that they do, if they looked like they did in 1995, they'd be fucked.


Attitude era shouldn't even be mentioned here because any effect from that era was long long gone by 2004 when business in the US was at its lowest since 95.

You can credit Cena and his effects are still felt sure but few things Cena led WWE never managed to do was
1. Attract advertisers in the way they have past 5-6 years
2. Convince tv networks that WWE programming was worth certain amount of money and that it was worth bidding on like live sports
3. Convince wall street that stock was worth buying

All those three things are relatively recent and all played a massive role in convincing Shad Khan to invest hundreds of millions and indeed TNT to pick up AEW in first place.


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## bdon

Imagine really getting worked up about ratings like it is helping your pocket.

MuhTribalChief


----------



## yeahright2

3venflow said:


> They're due tomorrow I think.


I intend on doing a collective Rampage/Dynamite ratings game winners


----------



## Prosper

The simping for Roman Reigns is out of control. I mean the guy is cool by me, but he’s not some generational talent. I wonder how many of Romans fans in this thread and other threads joined in on absolutely shitting on him and ripping him apart for six years straight. Now they’re acknowledging him like the last six years never happened. Now that he’s the Tribal Chief all of a sudden he’s a God on the mic and in the ring.


----------



## One Shed

I guess it is market by market and who your provider is, but I always get Dynamite live at 5 or 6pm on the West Coast. DirecTV has both the East and West coast feeds.


----------



## DammitChrist

Prosper said:


> The simping for Roman Reigns is out of control. I mean the guy is cool by me, but he’s not some generational talent. I wonder how many of Romans fans in this thread and other threads joined in on absolutely shitting on him and ripping him apart for six years straight. Now they’re acknowledging him like the last six years never happened. Now that he’s the Tribal Chief all of a sudden he’s a God on the mic and in the ring.


Yea, it's been that way since like June at least. It's probably gone far longer than that though.

Anyway, I just checked my series, and it turns out that the current Universal Champion doesn't even crack the Top 30 for best current all-around talents (from WWE plus AEW plus NJPW) in the overall standings. The series is open to everyone btw.

That updated list is *STILL *yet to include some other good talents like Samoa Joe, Malakai Black, Rey Mysterio, Tetsuya Naito, WALTER, Kota Ibushi, and Miro who we've still yet to evaluate too.

Compared to everyone else in the wrestling industry atm, he's just an average talent who happens to have a super-push.


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> The simping for Roman Reigns is out of control. I mean the guy is cool by me, but he’s not some generational talent. I wonder how many of Romans fans in this thread and other threads joined in on absolutely shitting on him and ripping him apart for six years straight. Now they’re acknowledging him like the last six years never happened. Now that he’s the Tribal Chief all of a sudden he’s a God on the mic and in the ring.


Been a fan and it's good to see folk finally get on board. He's putting out some of the best shit going and it's getting the credit it deserves.


----------



## reamstyles

Roman doesnt scream your typical shouting wrestler ala rock and austin..he is subtle, less module voice and it has it pros and cons and now it would be best for him to be a heel rather than a face. Doesnt need to be always the angry heel( hhh).. and also not a joking bad ass kicking face(austin rock)..wrestling shouldnt fully make stars based from stars from 80s or 90s they need to create larger than life characters yes but they need to be unique.. Punk was unique and an evolution so as Roman. You can still go to proven formula but you need to take risk and experiment..


----------



## Prosper

DammitChrist said:


> Yea, it's been that way since like June at least. It's probably gone far longer than that though.
> 
> I just checked my series, and it turns out that the current Universal Champion doesn't even crack the Top 30 for best current all-around talents (from WWE plus AEW plus NJPW) in the overall standings. The series is open to everyone btw.
> 
> That updated list is *without* some good talents like Samoa Joe, Malakai Black, Rey Mysterio, Tetsuya Naito, WALTER, Kota Ibushi, and Miro who we've still yet to evaluate too.
> 
> Compared to everyone else in the wrestling industry atm, he's just an average talent who happens to have a super-push.


If I were to grade Roman Reigns I'd probably put him somewhere between a C+ and a B-.

But putting him over guys like Ibushi, Joe and Black I can't do.



RapShepard said:


> Been a fan and it's good to see folk finally get on board. He's putting out some of the best shit going and it's getting the credit it deserves.


His work has been great lately with the Bloodline and he's gotten feuds with Cena, Edge, Bryan, and Lesnar with an upcoming feud with The Rock. All of which he's coming out the victor. I'm enjoying it and I've given him plenty of credit. But if you look at that lineup of feuds it's easy for anyone to tell how much the company invests in him and why people are hopping on the guy's wood. When you put all your stock or 85% of it into one guy it's easy to prop him up as the best thing ever because he's the only one they try to give top-tier creative to. But without that creative he's like above-average tops. If Joe for example wasn't made of glass and was inserted into his position I definitely think he would have surpassed Roman overall.


----------



## wwetna1

SuperstarSlyme said:


> And if Fox can air replays of SmackDown! on FS1 to their discretion why did they just now do it ?


Fox has always ran a replay on FS2. It’s never been a set day, but they have always replayed it depending on scheduling commitments before the next SD. Now they don’t usually do FS1 replays for some reason which they could honestly get away with and do good viewership off of. 

The one thing that was most subtle about the sd replay was they ran Tubi ads. The wwe Hulu deal is coming up and they will have replay rights to sell for streaming media, so I can see Tubi putting in a bid


----------



## wwetna1

reamstyles said:


> Roman doeant scream your tyoical shouting wrestler ala rock and austin..he is subtle and it has it pros and cons and now it would be good for him to be a heel rather than a face, doeant seem always angry heel.. and also not a joking bad ass face..wrearling shouldnt make stars based fromnstars from 80s or 90s they need to create larger than life characters yea but they need to be unique.. Punk was unique and a n evolution ao as Roman..


I don’t know if it’s beating cancer or something, but he came back and didn’t seem like he was trying to carry the weight of the world on his shoulders. He just came back and was like I’m Roman, take me or not, I’m go do me and seemed to thrive with it. It was much easier to embrace him as a result. It’s like everything just clicked for him. But he did say wwe stopped writing his promos and everything when he came back too, so maybe he’s just comfortable


----------



## SuperstarSlyme

wwetna1 said:


> Fox has always ran a replay on FS2. It’s never been a set day, but they have always replayed it depending on scheduling commitments before the next SD. Now they don’t usually do FS1 replays for some reason which they could honestly get away with and do good viewership off of.
> 
> The one thing that was most subtle about the sd replay was they ran Tubi ads. The wwe Hulu deal is coming up and they will have replay rights to sell for streaming media, so I can see Tubi putting in a bid


FS2 such an irrelevant channel i didnt even knew they did that lol. Woulda made more sense on FS1 but probably cant due to scheduling conflicts


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> If I were to grade Roman Reigns I'd probably put him somewhere between a C+ and a B-.
> 
> But putting him over guys like Ibushi, Joe and Black I can't do.
> 
> 
> 
> His work has been great lately with the Bloodline and he's gotten feuds with Cena, Edge, Bryan, and Lesnar with an upcoming feud with The Rock. All of which he's coming out the victor. I'm enjoying it and I've given him plenty of credit.* But if you look at that lineup of feuds it's easy for anyone to tell how much the company invests in him and why people are hopping on the guy's wood. When you put all your stock or 85% of it into one guy it's easy to prop him up as the best thing ever because he's the only one they try to give top-tier creative to. But without that creative he's like above-average tops.* If Joe for example wasn't made of glass and was inserted into his position I definitely think he would have surpassed Roman overall.


This argument can be used to knock any top guy in wrestling though. You only become a top guy, by being given top guy things to do. Is Kenny as big of a star if he isn't given the room to put on phenomenal matches with stars? Of course not, Kenny became a star because he got star treatment. 

As far as everything put on him, idk on SmackDown alone the last year you seen the rise of Bianca, the rise of Big E as a singles guy, and Apollo Crews become a viable midcarder. Had good midcard title runs with Styles, Sami, and Big E the SmackDowns women title has been on fire since Bayley. SmackDown has a lot going for it.


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> This argument can be used to knock any top guy in wrestling though. You only become a top guy, by being given top guy things to do. Is Kenny as big of a star if he isn't given the room to put on phenomenal matches with stars? Of course not, Kenny became a star because he got star treatment.
> 
> As far as everything put on him, idk on SmackDown alone the last year you seen the rise of Bianca, the rise of Big E as a singles guy, and Apollo Crews become a viable midcarder. Had good midcard title runs with Styles, Sami, and Big E the SmackDowns women title has been on fire since Bayley. SmackDown has a lot going for it.


Roman's top guy push is going on 7 years, you can give top guys top stuff but not at the expense of the rest of the roster for so long. Kenny had a run at the top with star treatment for a year and now it's Hangman's turn to be the focal point. Before Omega it was all about Moxley, before that Jericho. In WWE it seems like Roman is just on a never-ending push main eventing WMania year after year beating LITERALLY everyone available. And they don't have guys being given enough constantly enough to supplement him post title reign. Other than Riddle I don't see what you're seeing. People don't realize it but the guy is gonna be stuck after he drops the gold. If you look at the SD roster now, his only competition is Drew McIntyre and Jeff Hardy, and Jeff is a stretch. They put everyone on RAW for some odd reason.

Big E's rise didn't feel like a rise to me, they threw the gold on him on RAW and he didn't have any real singles feuds or a singles journey to the top before that. It was just rematch after rematch with Apollo after leaving New Day and now all of a sudden he's champion just because he had a briefcase. It just cheapens everything. To me it came off like they wanted to re-create the Kofi magic on the spot but they didn't give him the journey to get there and he was never as over as Kofi to make him come off like a champion people were vying for. Everything was just so random and forced.


----------



## rbl85

This week will be the start of Dynamite being live also on the west coast


----------



## 3venflow

There's three boards to cheer for Roman (Smackdown, General WWE, WWE Fan Forum), not sure why people are so insistent on doing it on an AEW board unless to bait. This ain't religion folks, WWE missionaries aren't needed because we've all seen him and can judge for ourselves. Roman is a good sports-entertainer but dunno why we have to keep seeing his face in an AEW ratings thread.


----------



## Soul Rex

Dynamite bout to draw 200k against the World Series. 

Cancel that shiet.


----------



## DaSlacker

validreasoning said:


> Attitude era shouldn't even be mentioned here because any effect from that era was long long gone by 2004 when business in the US was at its lowest since 95.
> 
> You can credit Cena and his effects are still felt sure but few things Cena led WWE never managed to do was
> 1. Attract advertisers in the way they have past 5-6 years
> 2. Convince tv networks that WWE programming was worth certain amount of money and that it was worth bidding on like live sports
> 3. Convince wall street that stock was worth buying
> 
> All those three things are relatively recent and all played a massive role in convincing Shad Khan to invest hundreds of millions and indeed TNT to pick up AEW in first place.


I think wrestling - WWE in particular - is both a benefactor and victim of cable being eclipsed by Netflix and other platforms. Years ago the Nick/Cartoon Network shows (e.g Rugrats, SpongeBob) did huge ratings, but they've fallen off a cliff. Probably because kids don't watch nearly as much TV. 

Ten years ago you'd get major hits such as Walking Dead and Games of Thrones. That's not really happening now because younger adults viewing habits have changed too. For example, Succession has increased its number but still only does about 700,000 live. That's a good number for fairly new scripted series. Snowpiercer started big but dropped down to under a million. A world away from when Monk and Psych was doing strong numbers. 

Suddenly live WWE Raw and live WWE SmackDown look mightily impressive. Particularly when you throw in their online subscribers/followers. Selling them separately like an NFL package was a masterstroke. The downside is that WWE has also gradually lost devotees and the ability to truly hook pre teens like they could. Basically they are even more niche - a big fish in a shrinking pond and masked by the franchise element. 

In addition to the aforementioned, getting on FOX has really helped with pulling in major advertisers. They'd already done a lot of the groundwork there by pushing the brand and its big name partners, being politically correct and establishing itself as harmless family entertainment.


----------



## wwetna1

SuperstarSlyme said:


> FS2 such an irrelevant channel i didnt even knew they did that lol. Woulda made more sense on FS1 but probably cant due to scheduling conflicts


Yeah they air on such a weird schedule you would never know it’s there. They also have an undisputed replay on fs2 which is not at a set time 

That to me makes little sense too because undisputed is their most watched daily fs1 show so you would think they would have a set replay time there.

I still think that had they kept FX, they would be in a better position with Fox, FX, and FS1


----------



## rbl85

Soul Rex said:


> Dynamite bout to draw 200k against the World Series.
> 
> Cancel that shiet.


Nah on Wednesday they have a minimum off 600-700K of people who'll watch it


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> Roman's top guy push is going on 7 years, you can give top guys top stuff but not at the expense of the rest of the roster for so long. Kenny had a run at the top with star treatment for a year and now it's Hangman's turn to be the focal point. Before Omega it was all about Moxley, before that Jericho. In WWE it seems like Roman is just on a never-ending push main eventing WMania year after year beating LITERALLY everyone available. And they don't have guys being given enough constantly enough to supplement him post title reign. Other than Riddle I don't see what you're seeing. People don't realize it but the guy is gonna be stuck after he drops the gold. If you look at the SD roster now, his only competition is Drew McIntyre and Jeff Hardy, and Jeff is a stretch. They put everyone on RAW for some odd reason.


It's probably hard for you to see because for whatever reason when it comes to WWE, only the FotC spot is talked about. Which in turn has fans look down on any spot that isn't that. Folk have to remember this is his first actual long title reign. It's just so happens even without the belt he's all hardcore fans focus on places like here. Last 7 years we've seen Reigns, Rollins, Styles, Ambrose, Balor, Jinder, Bobby, Drew, Owens, Bray, and Braun all win their first world title in that 7 year span. Outside of of Jinder all of these folk were always treated bare minimum as upper midcard type guys. 



> Big E's rise didn't feel like a rise to me, they threw the gold on him on RAW and he didn't have any real singles feuds or a singles journey to the top before that. It was just rematch after rematch with Apollo after leaving New Day and now all of a sudden he's champion just because he had a briefcase. To me it came off like they wanted to re-create the Kofi magic on the spot but they didn't give him the journey to get there and he was never as over as Kofi to make him come off like a champion people were vying for. Everything was just so random and forced.


I mean after the split he had the WWE version of a blood feud with Sheamus. Then he went after Sami for the IC title. Defended that for a bit. Lost it to Crews had a feud I agree went too long. Then he won MitB. It had more foreshadowing and build than say Sammy out of nowhere being the one to beat Miro to defend Fuego.


----------



## SuperstarSlyme

Soul Rex said:


> Dynamite bout to draw 200k against the World Series.
> 
> Cancel that shiet.


worst take of the day


----------



## thorn123

There is just no appetite for AEW. I just hope they do good enough numbers to stay on the air.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prosper said:


> If I were to grade Roman Reigns I'd probably put him somewhere between a C+ and a B-.
> 
> But putting him over guys like Ibushi, Joe and Black I can't do.
> 
> 
> 
> His work has been great lately with the Bloodline and he's gotten feuds with Cena, Edge, Bryan, and Lesnar with an upcoming feud with The Rock. All of which he's coming out the victor. I'm enjoying it and I've given him plenty of credit. But if you look at that lineup of feuds it's easy for anyone to tell how much the company invests in him and why people are hopping on the guy's wood. When you put all your stock or 85% of it into one guy it's easy to prop him up as the best thing ever because he's the only one they try to give top-tier creative to. But without that creative he's like above-average tops. If Joe for example wasn't made of glass and was inserted into his position I definitely think he would have surpassed Roman overall.


*Rollins was given Sting, Triple H, and Brock and his reign flopped. Keep your asterisks. People love Roman's work because it's genuinely great. Some of his best character work came from the Jey USO feud, not a legend.*


----------



## THANOS

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1452702634851307532
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


FOX is network TV, which is available to a much larger pool of viewers. FOX1 is Cable just like TNT which is even territory.

You can't compare Network TV to cable.


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> *Rollins was given Sting, Triple H, and Brock and his reign flopped. Keep your asterisks. People love Roman's work because it's genuinely great. Some of his best character work came from the Jimmy USO feud, not a legend.*


Jey Uso lol


----------



## La Parka

bdon said:


> Imagine really getting worked up about ratings like it is helping your pocket.
> 
> MuhTribalChief


I know the dude who has spent the last two years obsessing over another man with a neck tattoo ain’t making this post


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> Imagine really getting worked up about ratings like it is helping your pocket.
> 
> MuhTribalChief





La Parka said:


> I know the dude who has spent the last two years obsessing over another man with a neck tattoo ain’t making this post


I mean you do get intense in criticizing Cody and praising Kenny BDon


----------



## DammitChrist

Prosper said:


> Roman's top guy push is going on 7 years, you can give top guys top stuff but not at the expense of the rest of the roster for so long. Kenny had a run at the top with star treatment for a year and now it's Hangman's turn to be the focal point. Before Omega it was all about Moxley, before that Jericho. In WWE it seems like Roman is just on a never-ending push main eventing WMania year after year beating LITERALLY everyone available. And they don't have guys being given enough constantly enough to supplement him post title reign. *Other than Riddle I don't see what you're seeing. People don't realize it but the guy is gonna be stuck after he drops the gold. If you look at the SD roster now, his only competition is Drew McIntyre and Jeff Hardy, and Jeff is a stretch. They put everyone on RAW for some odd reason.*
> 
> Big E's rise didn't feel like a rise to me, they threw the gold on him on RAW and he didn't have any real singles feuds or a singles journey to the top before that. It was just rematch after rematch with Apollo after leaving New Day and now all of a sudden he's champion just because he had a briefcase. It just cheapens everything. To me it came off like they wanted to re-create the Kofi magic on the spot but they didn't give him the journey to get there and he was never as over as Kofi to make him come off like a champion people were vying for. Everything was just so random and forced.


Honestly, after watching tonight's fun episode of Raw, I actually hope they don't make any major, risky changes to the show.

I'm actually happy with Raw's roster atm. I don't have a problem with any male talent in the upper card. 

At this point, the only major changes I'd be hyped about is if they somehow added Sami Zayn and/or Cesaro to Raw's roster.

Besides those 2 men, everyone else who I like on Smackdown will either be fine booking-wise, or won't be pushed anyway no matter where they go.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *Rollins was given Sting, Triple H, and Brock and his reign flopped. Keep your asterisks. People love Roman's work because it's genuinely great. Some of his best character work came from the Jimmy USO feud, not a legend.*


At least Seth Rollins never got embarrassed by the freaking Bunny in the middle of the biggest push of this past decade 😂

You can't get any worse of a flop than that (which I'm completely justified to call it that since his Universal title reign should've ended back in May at least).


----------



## Fearless Viper

DammitChrist said:


> At least Seth Rollins never got embarrassed by the freaking Bunny in the middle of the biggest push of this past decade 😂
> 
> You can't get any worse of a flop than that (which I'm completely justified to call it that since his Universal title reign should've ended back in May at least).


Talk about embarrassment...


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Fearless Viper said:


> Talk about embarrassment...


*What's really embarrassing is a brand new episode of Dynamite losing to a REPLAY of a Roman Reigns promo.*



THANOS said:


> FOX is network TV, which is available to a much larger pool of viewers. FOX1 is Cable just like TNT which is even territory.
> 
> You can't compare Network TV to cable.


*There's nothing even about TNT being in MILLIONS of more homes than FS1. The fact of the matter is 250,000+ (difference of Dynamite viewers from last week) people chose to watch a rerun of Smackdown over a new episode of Dynamite. That's terrible any way you try to spin it.*


----------



## bdon

La Parka said:


> I know the dude who has spent the last two years obsessing over another man with a neck tattoo ain’t making this post


Not acting like my pocket is bothered by Cody, sweet cheeks.


----------



## rbl85

The Legit DMD said:


> What's really embarrassing is a brand new episode of Dynamite losing to a REPLAY of a Roman Reigns promo.
> 
> 
> There's nothing even about TNT being in MILLIONS of more homes than FS1. *The fact of the matter is 250,000+ (difference of Dynamite viewers from last week) people chose to watch a rerun of Smackdown over a new episode of Dynamite.* That's terrible any way you try to spin it.


This is completely wrong.

We know now (we know since months now) that AEW and the WWE does not share viewers or just a tiny % (less than 5%). You want to know the reason why ?
It's quite simple in the eyes of the majority of AEW viewers WWE = Evil and in the eyes of the majority of WWE viewers AEW = Evil.

Smackdown had 0 impact on AEW viewership.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> I mean you do get intense in criticizing Cody and praising Kenny BDon


Again: discussing what one likes is fine.

Acting like a win at the popularity contest is such high school shit. I was ragging on Cody when it WASN’T popular, so I could not care less whether the masses agree with me.

MUH CHIEF


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> Again: discussing what one likes is fine.
> 
> Acting like a win at the popularity contest is such high school shit. I was ragging on Cody when it WASN’T popular, so I could not care less whether the masses agree with me.
> 
> MUH CHIEF


Come on man you've discussed guys you think Kenny is a bigger star than before, you participate in the shenanigans


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Come on man you've discussed guys you think Kenny is a bigger star than before, you participate in the shenanigans


Again, everyone is entitled to like who they want.

Championing a popularity contest? Congrats on enjoying the Prom King and Queen, I guess? Lmao


----------



## Makish16

Aew beats smackdown with a 6 million cable viewer differance between fs1 and tnt , wwe marks go crazy and say it's not fair

Smackdown rerun beats aew with a 30 to 40 million differance between tnt and fox and college football lead in, and wwe marks go crazy 

Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> Again, everyone is entitled to like who they want.
> 
> Championing a popularity contest? Congrats on enjoying the Prom King and Queen, I guess? Lmao


So if Dynamite was pulling the best numbers in the industry and the shows led by world champion Kenny Omega, you wouldn't be talking a little shit on how over he is?


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> So if Dynamite was pulling the best numbers in the industry and the shows led by world champion Kenny Omega, you wouldn't be talking a little shit on how over he is?


In a tongue-in-cheek way? Sure. I have brought this up to @Firefromthegods to make sure I wouldn’t be banned for baiting, but I never put weight on popularity. Fucking Steve Austin is the biggest draw ever, and I could show you that same character at any dive bar on Buffalo Creek, bro. Lol

I mean, *NSYNC once set the record for first day CD sales. Should we champion them as the epitome of great music?

And if the Tribal Chief and ratings talk is all in jest, then I missed it, but SOME…absolutely believe the ratings talk is the be-all, end-all.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> So if Dynamite was pulling the best numbers in the industry and the shows led by world champion Kenny Omega, you wouldn't be talking a little shit on how over he is?


Also…you have to remember: I am a devout WCW guy. I never enjoyed WWF or WWE, despite it being #1 for a majority of the last 40 years minus an 83 week period.

Ratings and popularity don’t mean shit to me.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Full ratings


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1452988114142650368

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> In a tongue-in-cheek way? Sure. I have brought this up to @Firefromthegods to make sure I wouldn’t be banned for baiting, but I never put weight on popularity. Fucking Steve Austin is the biggest draw ever, and I could show you that same character at any dive bar on Buffalo Creek, bro. Lol
> 
> I mean, *NSYNC once set the record for first day CD sales. Should we champion them as the epitome of great music?
> 
> And if the Tribal Chief and ratings talk is all in jest, then I missed it, but SOME…absolutely believe the ratings talk is the be-all, end-all.





bdon said:


> Also…you have to remember: I am a devout WCW guy. I never enjoyed WWF or WWE, despite it being #1 for a majority of the last 40 years minus an 83 week period.
> 
> Ratings and popularity don’t mean shit to me.


I just take it as a spirited pissing contest for most. 

Agree on folk shouldn't decide what they like solely based on popularity. But when what you like is popular it can be more enjoyable just based on having more folk to discuss or talk shit with.


----------



## Aedubya

AEW Demo gods again


----------



## RapShepard

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> Full ratings
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1452988114142650368
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Saved themselves some endless shit talk


----------



## bdon

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> Full ratings
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1452988114142650368
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


YOUR Tribal Chief wants you to ACKNOWLEDGE HIM…

…bowing at the altar of HIS…wait for it…GOD OF PROWRESTLING!


----------



## 3venflow

Yeah, I predicted they'd win the demo there. But that's still a sharp drop from last Saturday's show (0.28 / 727k) so it seems something, possibly MLB which aired at the same time and did a monster M18-49, ate into the ratings.

It finished #10 on cable and the M18-49 (AEW's strongest demographic) was definitely lower than usual.

Rhodes to the Top finished #26 and I think that show did pretty well throughout its season. Low cost but top 50 show for TNT.


----------



## rbl85

Tomorrow is game 1 right ?


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

rbl85 said:


> Tomorrow is game 1 right ?


Tonight is game 1


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rbl85

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> Tonight is game 1
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oh ok


----------



## fabi1982

rbl85 said:


> This is completely wrong.
> 
> We know now (we know since months now) that AEW and the WWE does not share viewers or just a tiny % (less than 5%). You want to know the reason why ?
> It's quite simple in the eyes of the majority of AEW viewers WWE = Evil and in the eyes of the majority of WWE viewers AEW = Evil.
> 
> Smackdown had 0 impact on AEW viewership.


I think the majority of WWE viewers dont care about AEW.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

DammitChrist said:


> At least Seth Rollins never got embarrassed by the freaking Bunny in the middle of the biggest push of this past decade 😂
> 
> You can't get any worse of a flop than that (which I'm completely justified to call it that since his Universal title reign should've ended back in May at least).


SD would kill to draw right now what Raw was drawing in 2015 when Seth was Champion. That's for damn sure. And that's with SD having the edge of being on national television.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Saved themselves some endless shit talk


*Demo be damned. They lost a quarter mil to Tribal Chief trolling. They'll NEVER live that down.*


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *Demo be damned. They lost a quarter mil to Tribal Chief trolling. They'll NEVER live that down.*


Evidence #325-A, @RapShepard 

A fan who takes this ratings stuff VERY seriously. Lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> Full ratings
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1452988114142650368
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


its a shame that 600k people cannot afford cable


----------



## Pentagon Senior

Pretty shitty numbers this week, even for a Saturday



fabi1982 said:


> I think the majority of WWE viewers dont care about AEW.


Luckily you're here to represent the minority 🙂


----------



## rbl85

Pentagon Senior said:


> Pretty shitty numbers this week, even for a Saturday
> 
> 
> 
> Luckily you're here to represent the minority 🙂


The numbers are logical


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> its a shame that 600k people cannot afford cable


*It's a shame that this ALL ELITE indy wrasslin can't outdraw a Roman Reigns rerun 







*


----------



## Pentagon Senior

rbl85 said:


> The numbers are logical


Is there a reason they're down so much from the last Saturday? 

I'm thinking more from AEW's pov really rather than if it's a good/bad rating in TV terms - it must be frustrating for them to put out a good show that only half the audience sees live


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## DammitChrist

Fearless Viper said:


> Talk about embarrassment...


I knew that you'd predictably post that GIF. 

You do realize that Seth Rollins absolutely HATED the finish to that Hell in a Cell match in 2019, and that he can just simply laugh off/joke about that GIF like 10-20 years from now once he makes that Hall of Fame speech some day. 

Hell, you can argue that this specific moment in the GIF (and that awful HIAC match) eventually led to his entertaining heel run atm. 

None of that negates what I said regarding last week since the Bunny will always be brought up whenever someone tries to overrate his 'drawing ability'.


----------



## Whoanma

Fearless Viper said:


> Talk about embarrassment...


This will never get old. I’ll always be thankful to Rollins for all the laughter.


----------



## bdon

For the record, I enjoy Seth Rollins, but I hate that he has been broken and built into the company man.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *It's a shame that this ALL ELITE indy wrasslin can't outdraw a Roman Reigns rerun
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Your top favorite got upstaged by the Bunny just last week, and you threw a fit over that loss. Sit down, 'm8' 😂


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> *Demo be damned. They lost a quarter mil to Tribal Chief trolling. They'll NEVER live that down.*


Lol


bdon said:


> Evidence #325-A, @RapShepard
> 
> A fan who takes this ratings stuff VERY seriously. Lol


All good fun lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *It's a shame that this ALL ELITE indy wrasslin can't outdraw a Roman Reigns rerun
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


I hear Friday night baseball on FS1 outdrew Smackdown on Fox


how do you feel about it?


----------



## fabi1982

Pentagon Senior said:


> Pretty shitty numbers this week, even for a Saturday
> 
> 
> 
> Luckily you're here to represent the minority 🙂


Looking at the numbers us 5 people in here „parading“ WWE around does not mean any of the 2m viewers cares about AEW. Just mostly everyone of the „AEW lovers“ always brings up WWE (in that case Roman) when they „beat any metric. So you are right, me „fighting for WWE and hating AEW“ is not the general WWE fandom thoughts.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Looking at the numbers us 5 people in here „parading“ WWE around does not mean any of the 2m viewers cares about AEW. Just mostly everyone of the „AEW lovers“ always brings up WWE (in that case Roman) when they „beat any metric. So you are right, me „fighting for WWE and hating AEW“ is not the general WWE fandom thoughts.


lol, I promise you mate - if Legit does not bring up Roman, his name will never be mentioned in this thread

can't promise the same for the rest of the WWE of course


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I hear Friday night baseball on FS1 outdrew Smackdown on Fox
> 
> 
> how do you feel about it?


Quick make the following thread : "Is it time to push the panic button ?"


----------



## Pentagon Senior

fabi1982 said:


> Looking at the numbers us 5 people in here „parading“ WWE around does not mean any of the 2m viewers cares about AEW. Just mostly everyone of the „AEW lovers“ always brings up WWE (in that case Roman) when they „beat any metric. So you are right, me „fighting for WWE and hating AEW“ is not the general WWE fandom thoughts.


I agree, the majority don't even stop to think about tv ratings they just watch what they enjoy and avoid stuff they don't. But it's your right to "parade" on behalf of your favourite wrestling company and represent the minority 👍


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I hear Friday night baseball on FS1 outdrew Smackdown on Fox
> 
> 
> how do you feel about it?


*Don't care because AEW just lost to a Roman Reigns rerun. *


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *Don't care because AEW just lost to a Roman Reigns rerun. *


You’re just going to keep no-selling his embarrassing loss to the Bunny last week?

By the way, it’s pretty sad how much you despise folks enjoying Indy wrestling.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453010929596108813

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bdon

DMD tanking the ratings…


----------



## Honey Bucket

‘My dick is bigger than yours’
‘Well my dad can beat up your dad’
‘I earn more money than you’
‘My favourite wrestling show had more people watch it than your favourite wrestling show by a certain amount’
‘…easy bro’


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453010929596108813
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*Looks like Cassidy and Hobbs tanked ratings and Britt brought the people back as her match went on.*


----------



## rbl85

So wait for DMD to put the blame on Anna Jay.

He will also blame the commercial even tho when it's for other wrestlers, he seems to forget the commercials......


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Terrible quarter for Baker. It's one bad week though, it happens.

Not really anything crazy different than what you'd usually see for Rampage breakdown. Show starts off relatively strong in the first quarter, then dips a lot after that.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Terrible quarter for Baker. It's one bad week though, it happens.
> 
> Not really anything crazy different than what you'd usually see for Rampage breakdown. Show starts off relatively strong in the first quarter, then dips a lot after that.


*Look at the trend of the graph. It immediately went downward. I don't blame Orange because he's a proven draw and this match was spoiled last week with heavy disdain from the internet. I blame Tony Khan for booking it and effectively wasting a Punk rub. Viewers also steadily increased during Britt's match. It's not like everyone rushed to their TVs the second Pac and Andrade appeared.*


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *Look at the trend of the graph. It immediately went downward. I don't blame Orange because he's a proven draw and this match was spoiled last week with heavy disdain from the internet. I blame Tony Khan for booking it and effectively wasting a Punk rub. Viewers also steadily increased during Britt's match. It's not like everyone rushed to their TVs the second Pac and Andrade appeared.*


You realize the big first quarter means the ENTIRE first15 minutes of the show that Hobbs and Cassidy were a part of, right? These are not minute-by-minute breakdowns, but an average of viewers across an entire 15 minute segment. To figure out whether an opening act tanks the first segment, you’d need to know the opening minute numbers and the numbers at minute 15. 

I am convinced you are just trolling at this point.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Don't care because AEW just lost to a Roman Reigns rerun. *


how do you feel about Reigns beating Baker, Danielson and Jade in the ratings?

its sad


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Looks like Cassidy and Hobbs tanked ratings and Britt brought the people back as her match went on.*


lol, now you’re confirmed just trolling


----------



## TheGreatBanana

Khan is going to tweet how he beat WWE in demos against the replay of Smackdown lol!


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> how do you feel about Reigns beating Baker, Danielson and Jade in the ratings?
> 
> its sad


*Blame this man for setting them up:







*


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol, now you’re confirmed just trolling


I can’t tell if he’s trolling or clueless about how the ratings work.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

bdon said:


> I can’t tell if he’s trolling or clueless about how the ratings work.


If not sure, just assume trolling. It's funnier that way.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> I can’t tell if he’s trolling or clueless about how the ratings work.


lol, nah - saying dmd didn’t tank the rating there is trolling


----------



## 3venflow

Tony Khan said FITE TV subscriptions have more than doubled since CM Punk joined AEW. AEW Plus was already FITE's most popular service and it seems they're bringing in quite a lot of revenue through it. This is probably one of the six areas Chris Harrington said CM Punk had improved AEW's business in.


----------



## cai1981

A live Dynamite couldn't draw more viewers than a repeat of Smackdown! How do Khan and Meltzer try to explain this one??? 

Don't give me the demo or "it was on Saturday" crap for this because Dynamite did around 200k better in the same time slot last week!


----------



## rbl85

cai1981 said:


> A live Dynamite couldn't draw more viewers than a repeat of Smackdown! How do Khan and Meltzer try to explain this one???
> 
> Don't give me the demo or "it was on Saturday" crap for this because Dynamite did around 200k better in the same time slot last week!


I don't know maybe because the Dodger/Braves game on TBS did 7M last saturday against 4.7M 2 weeks ago.....


----------



## RoganJosh

Is @The Legit DMD and @Chip Chipperson the same person? They seem as miserable as each other.


----------



## The XL 2

This rating war between AEW and WWE is hilarious. Its like a dude with a 3 inch cock declaring victory over the dude with a 2.5 inch cock. Meanwhile, WWF and WCW used to combine for 10+ million people and even occasionally beat Monday Night football in the 18-35 demo. The bottom has fallen out under the business, its a joke.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol, nah - saying dmd didn’t tank the rating there is trolling


*No, it isn't. The decline started immediately during the first match.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *No, it isn't. The decline started immediately during the first match.*


dude - that graph - the lines inbetween are just connectors

not indicating a drop in the minutes preceeding minute 1

so - read it like a bar chart - that isn’t the ‘minute by minute’ one


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> dude - that graph - the lines inbetween are just connectors
> 
> not indicating a drop in the minutes preceeding minute 1
> 
> so - read it like a bar chart - that isn’t the ‘minute by minute’ one


I fucking called it. He’s actually clueless and doesn’t understand how the ratings work. Hahaha


----------



## Dr. Middy

I demand 30 second intervals so we really see what's up.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> I fucking called it. He’s actually clueless and doesn’t understand how the ratings work. Hahaha


honest mistake - they should make the graph a bar chart anyway if they display it in quarter chunks

imma give legit the benefit of the doubt

(i’m getting soft - next i’ll agree about cody)


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> dude - that graph - the lines inbetween are just connectors
> 
> not indicating a drop in the minutes preceeding minute 1
> 
> so - read it like a bar chart - that isn’t the ‘minute by minute’ one


*That's not what they taught me in 3rd grade!!! 😭*


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Dynamite losing to a Smackdown rerun is pretty funny after last week's grandstanding.



RoganJosh said:


> Is @The Legit DMD and @Chip Chipperson the same person? They seem as miserable as each other.


I've very rarely posted in the AEW section since you joined three months ago. How do you know anything about me?


----------



## yeahright2

Since we now have the final numbers, there´s winners in the prediction game

AEW Ratings prediction game

@LifeInCattleClass came relatively close to the Rampage number, while I took the win (if you can call it that when I´m 150K off) on Dynamite.

AEW got beat by a rerun of Smackdown.. So don´t give me "But the Demo" -Which interestingly enough was the same for Rampage and Dynamite. 300K Hardcore fans who will watch no matter where and when.


----------



## DammitChrist

The demographic numbers still matter too though.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> I've very rarely posted in the AEW section since you joined three months ago. How do you know anything about me?


Heroes get remembered, but legends never die.


----------



## the_hound




----------



## Hitman1987

the_hound said:


>


😂😂😂


----------



## DammitChrist

the_hound said:


>


That's a perfectly valid explanation that'll be conveniently be ignored for pessimistic's sake


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

DammitChrist said:


> That's a perfectly valid explanation that'll be conveniently be ignored for pessimistic's sake


Lol what's up with the thumbs up emoji, what is it directed at? I noticed you use emojis A LOT in random ass situations that don't call for them. 

Anyway, there's nothing valid about that excuse, how many people were on the ship to begin with? How many of them do you think had Neilsen boxes? No way it had any affect whatsoever on the ratings. 

Also lol at comparing the MLB Playoffs on FS1 doing bigger numbers than SmackDown on FS1. Almost like the playoffs of a big 4 sports league will always do higher ratings than something niche like wrestling even on the same channel.


----------



## Shock Street

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> Anyway, there's nothing valid about that excuse, how many people were on the ship to begin with? How many of them do you think had Neilsen boxes? No way it had any affect whatsoever on the ratings.


I looked it up and the Norwegian Pearl has a capacity of 2394. Pretty small for a cruise ship. So yeah I doubt it changed anything.


----------



## Hitman1987

Shock Street said:


> I looked it up and the Norwegian Pearl has a capacity of 2394. Pretty small for a cruise ship. So yeah I doubt it changed anything.


They’ll be able to host rampage on there soon


----------



## La Parka

DammitChrist said:


> That's a perfectly valid explanation that'll be conveniently be ignored for pessimistic's sake


In the list of excuses AEW fans have made over the years. A modern day Noah’s Ark is not what I would’ve predicted.


----------



## RapShepard

La Parka said:


> In the list of excuses AEW fans have made over the years. A modern day Noah’s Ark is not what I would’ve predicted.


@DammitChrist is gimmick posting as a super fan got to ignore him


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

the_hound said:


>


It couldn't possibly be Noah's Ark, that'd mean there'd have to be women on that cruise 😂


----------



## RapShepard

* Tracking Ratings With Rap Shepard*

Let's see the Rampage numbers without Punk

Rampage #1- 740k .31 demo

Dynamite 8/18- 975k .35 demo

Rampage #2 with Punk- 1.129 million .53 demo

Dynamite 8/25 with Punk- 1.172 million .48 demo

Rampage #3 no Punk- 722k .34 demo

Dynamite 9/1 - 1.047 .37 demo

Rampage #4 with Punk- 696k .30 demo

Dynamite 9/8 with Punk, Bryan, and Cole- 1.31 million .53 demo

Rampage #5 No Punk, Bryan, or Cole- 670k .27 demo

Dynamite 9/15 with Punk, Cole, and Bryan- 1.175 million .44 demo

Rampage #6 no Punk, Cole, or Bryan - 642k .28 demo

Dynamite 9/22 Bryan vs Omega- 1.273 million .48 demo

Rampage #7 Punk vs Hobbs- 640k .28 demo

Dynamite 9/30 with Punk, Bryan, and Cole- 1.152 million .45 demo

Rampage #8 Bryan vs Nick Jackson- 622k .25 demo 

Dynamite 10/6 The Super Elite vs Bryan's ragtag group of merry men- 1.05 million .37 demo 

Rampage 9- 502k .17 demo 

Rampage 10 Bryan vs Sydal- 578k .24 demo beat SmackDown head to head

Dynamite 10/16- 727k .28 demo beat SmackDown in demo outright

Rampage 11- 533k .22 demo

Dynamite 10/23- 575k .22 demo


----------



## Shock Street

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> It couldn't possibly be Noah's Ark, that'd mean there'd have to be women on that cruise 😂


This legit had me laughing out loud. OOF


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite ratings*

Viewership: 941,000
18-49: 0.40

What does this mean? Don't they air at the same time?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453814925319565313


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Boop - expected



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453815182501761033


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453815182501761033
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dark Emperor

Wow, first time under 1m on a Wednesday since Punk and Bryan signed. 

Not surprising. This company can't build any momentum.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite ratings*
> 
> Viewership: 941,000
> 18-49: 0.40
> 
> What does this mean? Don't they air at the same time?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453814925319565313


west coast was always delayed due to time zones

they made it earlier to be live


----------



## Dark Emperor

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite ratings*
> 
> Viewership: 941,000
> 18-49: 0.40
> 
> What does this mean? Don't they air at the same time?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453814925319565313


Wow, excuses are in early.


----------



## bdon

You can’t constantly fuck with a show’s times and keep the audience engaged. The minute you change the date and time, you are giving your audience reason to find something new to occupy their time on your set day and time.


----------



## Mr316

No surprise there. They haven’t been on Wednesdays for two weeks. TNT fucked them over.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453815895894155270

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

#4 on cable behind only the NBA and those damned housewives.

NHL after Dynamite only did 0.11 / 296k. Rhodes to the Top did better than that. 😏


----------



## bdon

I always


Mr316 said:


> No surprise there. They haven’t been on Wednesdays for two weeks. TNT fucked them over.


It’s a constant stop and start with TNT, because the tv execs don’t care about wrestling.


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Boop - expected
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453815182501761033


I dont get why the dynamite graph is missing the two saturday shows, or am I just blind?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Is dynamite against some big baseball thing, right?
> 
> but the west coast thing is also kicking in, which people say is good?
> 
> 950k dynamote
> 545k rampage


called it


----------



## CovidFan

They had an episode only 4 days prior! People already had their dose and didn't tune in last night.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Down as expected. TNT is fucking with them. Did they went against World Series yesterday?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> I dont get why the dynamite graph is missing the two saturday shows, or am I just blind?


i _think_ he excludes out of the ordinary events


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i _think_ he excludes out of the ordinary events


Hmm I remember him not doing this the last time, but I can be wrong.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Hmm I remember him not doing this the last time, but I can be wrong.


it says at the top ‘excludes preemptions‘ - which will include the move to saturdays i think


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

NHL after Dynamite did a 300k - Rhodes to the Top >> NHL


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it says at the top ‘excludes preemptions‘ - which will include the move to saturdays i think


You are just too clever…I should have used „reading“ before asking


----------



## Borko

Moving to TBS can't come soon enough.


----------



## bdon

ProjectGargano said:


> Down as expected. TNT is fucking with them. Did they went against World Series yesterday?


I really hope TK plays hardball on the negotiations next year.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> You are just too clever…I should have used „reading“ before asking


“Fabi uses ‘reading’, its super effective”  - Pokemon reference


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453817043212546106
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> I really hope TK plays hardball on the negotiations next year.


looking at NHL, TK is gonna pick up a bag come renewal day


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453817043212546106
> 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


??? - they went up by 400k


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> looking at NHL, TK is gonna pick up a bag come renewal day


I do not want this show to continue on TNT. I do not trust TNT, despite a lot of wrestling memories with the network. The way they have treated Dynamite harkens memories to TNT’s treatment of WCW.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> looking at NHL, TK is gonna pick up a bag come renewal day


*I can't wait to see quarter 8 brother. *


----------



## Not Lying

LifeInCattleClass said:


> looking at NHL, TK is gonna pick up a bag come renewal day


More Money, better production, more talent, more promotion. It's all growth.

In the meantime, AEW still hasn't uploaded the Cody promo on youtube. Just waiting for that to quickly hit the dislike button and i urge you all to do the same. 🌿


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *I can't wait to see quarter 8 brother. *


It could be bad, and it could be the height of the show, because fans love weird, car crash TV.

See any Attitude Era show.


----------



## .christopher.

As expected, they killed that Punk and Bryan hype with ease. 

No one wants to see Punk against no name jobbers.

You killed Bryan's hype by having him go to a time limit draw against Omega in a non-title match on free tv with zero build.

No one buys Page - who's associated with the most embarrassing stable of all time - as a main eventer. He isn't main event material.

This was all obvious without the benefit of hindsight. You can keep your excuses as there's no way they should be dropped below a million now, but they've ran pretty much everyone who came for Punk and Bryan off with their own stupid decision making.


----------



## bdon

The Definition of Technician said:


> More Money, better production, more talent, more promotion. It's all growth.
> 
> In the meantime, AEW still hasn't uploaded the Cody promo on youtube. Just waiting for that to quickly hit the dislike button and i urge you all to do the same. 🌿


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *I can't wait to see quarter 8 brother. *


Q8 is gonna be fire, you’ll see

maybe a barn fire…. But fire nonetheless


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

4th on the night behind two NBA games: acceptable. 
losing a spot to fuckwit whores tv: reprehensible.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> I do not want this show to continue on TNT. I do not trust TNT, despite a lot of wrestling memories with the network. The way they have treated Dynamite harkens memories to TNT’s treatment of WCW.


the move to TBS is right - although i think TNT > TBS for overall market recognition? You’ll have to tell me

BUT - i can see other channels bidding too


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Reggie Dunlop said:


> 4th on the night behind two NBA games: acceptable.
> losing a spot to fuckwit whores tv: reprehensible.


coach dunlop! Welcome sir! Always good to see you


----------



## 3venflow

The 0.40 would've been enough to beat RAW for a third time... had it come last week. But this week, RAW's 'season premiere' did 0.47. Still, they are competitive and that's still a big deal that will come into play at the negotiating table when they renew.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

bdon said:


> It could be bad, and it could be the height of the show, because fans love weird, car crash TV.
> 
> See any Attitude Era show.


*The only comparison that can be made between the Ghost Goofs and the Attitude Era is the Oddities.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

‘That’ll put butts in seats’


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453820389671505924


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

LifeInCattleClass said:


> coach dunlop! Welcome sir! Always good to see you


Did you bring the foil?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Well that ain’t a good number. They’re falling back to what they did pre-Punk, which is bad.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Did you bring the foil?


lol, all up in my gloves sir


----------



## Prosper

Dark Emperor said:


> Wow, first time under 1m on a Wednesday since Punk and Bryan signed.
> 
> Not surprising. This company can't build any momentum.


Lol calm down. All they do is build momentum. They're not losing their fanbase as we have seen multiple times in the past. If you're constantly switching nights its naturally gonna have an effect on live viewership.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the move to TBS is right - although i think TNT > TBS for overall market recognition? You’ll have to tell me
> 
> BUT - i can see other channels bidding too


TNT is a far more desirable channel. TBS is the sister brand that is viewed as being strictly for sitcom reruns. Insert “AEW comedy wrestling will fit in nicely” joke here.

I want them out of the Turner ecosphere, buuuuut…the options are limited. FX maybe? AMC might work, but if I’m not mistaken, they lost a lot of viewers when cable companies stopped airing the channel.

Throwing this out there: a deal with Starz and jumping ship on Warner altogether might not be a bad play on Starz’s side of things, have Starz using the synergy of Heels and the great AEW universe together.

Not sure how wrestling on paid channels would work, though.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> TNT is a far more desirable channel. TBS is the sister brand that is viewed as being strictly for sitcom reruns. Insert “AEW comedy wrestling will fit in nicely” joke here.
> 
> I want them out of the Turner ecosphere, buuuuut…the options are limited. FX maybe? AMC might work, but if I’m not mistaken, they lost a lot of viewers when cable companies stopped airing the channel.
> 
> Throwing this out there: a deal with Starz and jumping ship on Warner altogether might not be a bad play on Starz’s side of things, have Starz using the synergy of Heels and the great AEW universe together.
> 
> Not sure how wrestling on paid channels would work, though.


this is left field… but the CW? Can they run tv 14 there?

although, i guess that is still warner and smaller


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> this is left field… but the CW? Can they run tv 14 there?
> 
> although, i guess that is still warner and smaller


CW would be fine, but..eh. I don’t like the idea. It’s a bit of a niche channel, but the shows they do run typically have very loyal fans.


----------



## Not Lying

Reggie Dunlop said:


> 4th on the night behind two NBA games: acceptable.
> losing a spot to fuckwit whores tv: reprehensible.





LifeInCattleClass said:


> coach dunlop! Welcome sir! Always good to see you



I'm going to be honest with you all, Housewives of Beverley Hills can be just as entertaining as AEW sometimes.

Lisa Rinna and Brandi are my favorites throughout the years.


----------



## 3venflow

They'll stay with Warner I think because they're safe with them long-term and probably will do something with HBO Max down the line.

AEW and Warner have a ton of new shows in the works apparently, so I don't think this is ending... unless maybe a network TV company arrives with an offer. But are there any realistic options there?

Warner also have first option to renew AEW's shows as long as its for an increased sum of money.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> CW would be fine, but..eh. I don’t like the idea. It’s a bit of a niche channel, but the shows they do run typically have very loyal fans.


will they ever jump to USA of all places? That is surely impossible


----------



## ripcitydisciple

3venflow said:


> *AEW Dynamite ratings*
> 
> Viewership: 941,000
> 18-49: 0.40
> 
> What does this mean? Don't they air at the same time?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453814925319565313


 I believe 5pm is not considered 'Primetime/Evening.' It is still apart of the Daytime/Afternoon portion, so Dynamite being live on the West Coast won't be apart of the ratings that get posted normally.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> will they ever jump to USA of all places? That is surely impossible


I keep coming back to that idea, but maaaan, that would take some fucking balls by the execs at the network.

IF it happened…Vince and WWE would have to be concerned. They’ll still make money, but USA is widely thought of as “The WWE wrestling channel”. I can’t think of one thing they offer beyond WWE.


----------



## bdon

ripcitydisciple said:


> I believe 5pm is not considered 'Primetime/Evening.' It is still apart of the Daytime/Afternoon portion, so Dynamite being live on the West Coast won't be apart of the ratings that get posted normally.


Good point. If that is the case…


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> I keep coming back to that idea, but maaaan, that would take some fucking balls by the execs at the network.
> 
> IF it happened…Vince and WWE would have to be concerned. They’ll still make money, but USA is widely thought of as “The WWE wrestling channel”. I can’t think of one thing they offer beyond WWE.


Fox would be funny as fuck


----------



## 3venflow

World Series on FOX opposite Dynamite did 10.3m viewers and 2.24 in the 18-49.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ripcitydisciple said:


> I believe 5pm is not considered 'Primetime/Evening.' It is still apart of the Daytime/Afternoon portion, so Dynamite being live on the West Coast won't be apart of the ratings that get posted normally.





bdon said:


> Good point. If that is the case…


ohhhh… so - add another 100k to 200k most likely?


----------



## bdon

3venflow said:


> World Series on FOX opposite Dynamite did 10.3m viewers and 2.24 in the 18-49.


The Braves ARE a lovable team dating back decades, but this viewership is wiiiiild.


----------



## Hitman1987

When the ratings drop,

and they don’t look good,

Who you gonna call?


----------



## Not Lying

Oct 30, 2019: 759K
Oct 28, 2020: 781K
Oct 27, 2021: 941K

For reference. "In a time of declining TV ratings"

I can't wait till the next summer to break this summer's record 😁


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ohhhh… so - add another 100k to 200k most likely?


If that is the case, who knows.

@Two Sheds , is 5pm typically a hassle for you West Coasters to catch a show? I know here on the East Coast, a show starting at 5pm is cutting off a lot of potential viewers due to traveling from their 9-to-5 jobs.


----------



## ThunderNitro

Now I will be forced to listen to Eric Bischoff on his podcast about how AEW continues to not be on the same level as WCW and the current day WWE because of their declining ratings.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ThunderNitro said:


> Now I will be forced to listen to Eric Bischoff on his podcast about how AEW continues to not be on the same level as WCW and the current day WWE because of their declining ratings.


which is funny, cause Eric’s pod isn’t the highest rated wrestling pod


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453823134059180034
*They lost the COVETED DEMO too. That's all they had to desperately cling to.*



#BadNewsSanta said:


> Well that ain’t a good number. They’re falling back to what they did pre-Punk, which is bad.


*But we kept being told booking him as a happy face against jobbers was perfectly fine. *


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *But we kept being told booking him as a happy face against jobbers was perfectly fine. *


5pm doesn’t count, so it wasn’t just 1 or 2 cities incapable of watching live like some recent shows experienced, but an entire fucking time zone.


----------



## ThunderNitro

LifeInCattleClass said:


> which is funny, cause Eric’s pod isn’t the highest rated wrestling pod


Who wants to listen to the same story told a million times on how WCW was the number 1 wrestling company for 18 months? Eric has to resort to talking about AEW in order to get clicks.


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453823134059180034
> *They lost the COVETED DEMO too. That's all they had to desperately cling to.
> 
> 
> But we kept being told booking him as a happy face against jobbers was perfectly fine. *


P50+ is not the coveted demo.

Goddamn you really don’t understand this shit.z


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

this thread contributed to my damn nightmare last night. Somehow some woman and I were the head writers of Dynamite. Pinhead from Hellraiser took the woman to hell for, in his words, "not raising the key demo enough". Too much wrestling on the brain for me.


----------



## rbl85

I think on showbuzz the numbers we get are live + a few hours, no ?

Or the problem is the show start too soon on the west coast to be included ?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

bdon said:


> P50+ is not the coveted demo.
> 
> Goddamn you really don’t understand this shit.z


*Can you read? "Dynamite wasn't ahead of neither RAW or Smackdown IN ANY DEMO WE HAVE DATA FOR."*


----------



## yeahright2

GNKenny said:


> this thread contributed to my damn nightmare last night. Somehow some woman and I were the head writers of Dynamite. Pinhead from Hellraiser took the woman to hell for, in his words, "not raising the key demo enough". Too much wrestling on the brain for me.


This nice guy ?


----------



## yeahright2

So the ratings for Dynamite is in.. 
And there´s a winner in the ratings game
AEW Ratings prediction game
@LifeInCattleClass you´re on a roll!

Big match to start the show with Punk, and what´s supposed to be their top talent in the "Super Elite" to close, and they still could´t crack a million viewers.
Who was it that said Punk is the most influential wrestler in 2021?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

yeahright2 said:


> So the ratings for Dynamite is in..
> And there´s a winner in the ratings game
> AEW Ratings prediction game
> @LifeInCattleClass you´re on a roll!
> 
> Big match to start the show with Punk, and what´s supposed to be their top talent in the "Super Elite" to close, and they still could´t crack a million viewers.
> Who was it that said Punk is the most influential wrestler in 2021?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453549110481625088


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *Can you read? "Dynamite wasn't ahead of neither RAW or Smackdown IN ANY DEMO WE HAVE DATA FOR."*


I thought you were talking about NXT.

So, they barely lost to Raw and lost to SD on Fox? And you’re bragging about this?

Comical man. Comical.


----------



## Geeee

GNKenny said:


> this thread contributed to my damn nightmare last night. Somehow some woman and I were the head writers of Dynamite. Pinhead from Hellraiser took the woman to hell for, in his words, "not raising the key demo enough". Too much wrestling on the brain for me.


Luckily, Pinhead's probably the most chill of all the slashers.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

bdon said:


> I thought you were talking about NXT.
> 
> So, they barely lost to Raw and lost to SD on Fox? And you’re bragging about this?
> 
> Comical man. Comical.


*This whole thread's existence is AEW fans celebrating marginal demo victories as they get repeatedly cooked by total viewership. I don't even care about the demo, but it sure is funny that they can't even talk about that this week.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *This whole thread's existence is AEW fans celebrating marginal demo victories as they get repeatedly cooked by total viewership. I don't even care about the demo, but it sure is funny that they can't even talk about that this week.*


we beat all other wrestling on Wednesday night in all key demos and overall

we’re the kings of Wednesday


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> If that is the case, who knows.
> 
> @Two Sheds , is 5pm typically a hassle for you West Coasters to catch a show? I know here on the East Coast, a show starting at 5pm is cutting off a lot of potential viewers due to traveling from their 9-to-5 jobs.


It depends for me, but yes usually I am still working or on an unfortunate day when I have to go into an office, am still driving home. Yesterday I started watching it on my phone while driving...well listening, not really watching since that would be a bit dangerous. 5 is a bit early but I like the feeling of still having most of my night to go after it is done vs when I was on the East coast, it was pretty much time to sleep after RAW growing up.


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *This whole thread's existence is AEW fans celebrating marginal demo victories as they get repeatedly cooked by total viewership. I don't even care about the demo, but it sure is funny that they can't even talk about that this week.*


This thread started with most (certainly not I) never expecting Dynamite to compete with the WWE main roster. It was NXT, and many argued as though NXT would slowly and eventually crush AEW.

Now after 2 years, AEW has some asterisked wins over WWE, and even that is surprising. You can’t possibly think AEW competing is such an expected occurrence that you, as a WWE fan, are celebrating WWE Main Roster wins in the demo, right? Is that how far WWE has fallen..?

Or is that how far AEW has _GREW_?

Thanks for making the biggest argument for those AEW fans in here who genuinely care about this ratings shit.


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> It depends for me, but yes usually I am still working or on an unfortunate day when I have to go into an office, am still driving home. Yesterday I started watching it on my phone while driving...well listening, not really watching since that would be a bit dangerous. 5 is a bit early but I like the feeling of still having most of my night to go after it is done vs when I was on the East coast, it was pretty much time to sleep after RAW growing up.


That’s what I figured and always assumed about television shows.

Must suck having to watch series Finales on the west coast, praying someone on the East Coast respectfully keeps spoilers quiet haha


----------



## xVenomx

It's almost as if the Dark Order are killing the ratings, who would have guessed that one? Also Punk is boring with the slow pace he's been wrestling and his happy to be here schtick.


----------



## bdon

xVenomx said:


> It's almost as if the Dark Order are killing the ratings, who would have guessed that one?


Or the possibility that an entire time zone watching at 5pm didn’t even register.


----------



## xVenomx

bdon said:


> Or the possibility that an entire time zone watching at 5pm didn’t even register.


Why wouldn't it register ? They are watching it live still correct ?


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Demo was still higher than the Anniversary Show which did like 110,000 more viewers, right?

I want a year-to-year rating like they do for The 'E


----------



## bdon

xVenomx said:


> Why wouldn't it register ? They are watching it live still correct ?


5pm on the West Coast is not Primetime, which they may include that anyways, but this point was brought up and makes a lot of sense as MOST scripted, episodic television shows start at one specific time across the board be it 8pm or what have you.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

bdon said:


> This thread started with most (certainly not I) never expecting Dynamite to compete with the WWE main roster. It was NXT, and many argued as though NXT would slowly and eventually crush AEW.
> 
> Now after 2 years, AEW has some asterisked wins over WWE, and even that is surprising. You can’t possibly think AEW competing is such an expected occurrence that you, as a WWE fan, are celebrating WWE Main Roster wins in the demo, right? Is that how far WWE has fallen..?
> 
> Or is that how far AEW has _GREW_?
> 
> Thanks for making the biggest argument for those AEW fans in here who genuinely care about this ratings shit.


*lol @ "competing." They can't even beat a REPLAY of a Roman Reigns promo. I see you struggle to tell the difference between celebrating the demo and laughing at AEW fans literally not being able to say anything at all this week. *


----------



## xVenomx

bdon said:


> 5pm on the West Coast is not Primetime, which they may include that anyways, but this point was brought up and makes a lot of sense as MOST scripted, episodic television shows start at one specific time across the board be it 8pm or what have you.


Interesting, but doesn't Smackdown and RAW both come on around that time too for them ? They count those ratings correct ?


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *lol @ "competing." They can't even beat a REPLAY of a Roman Reigns promo. I see you struggle to tell the difference between celebrating the demo and laughing at AEW fans literally not being able to say anything at all this week. *


The fact that you are celebrating a W over the former Tiny Tim says all one needs to know about where the two companies stand today.

They were never expected to compete or win. Not A single demo. Not one. I never expected them to win. I never expected them to even come close in that 30 minute head to head with SmackDown last week. Made for a cool moment in time, but certainly not something I expected to become the norm.

But go ahead. Show the AEW faithful how far “their” product has come in 2 years, confirming their biases by showing your hand in how fucking sadly you are getting worked up as the bigger budget show is barely beating the class clowns.


----------



## bdon

xVenomx said:


> Interesting, but doesn't Smackdown and RAW both come on around that time too for them ? They count those ratings correct ?


Unsure. So, it may be a case where they DO average it into the rankings, even if it isn’t technically “prime time”. Or maybe it isn’t averaged in for those shows either, and there is where a large chunk of “missing” wrestling fans are.

Anyone have the details on this?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

bdon said:


> The fact that you are celebrating a W over the former Tiny Tim says all one needs to know about where the two companies stand today.
> 
> They were never expected to compete or win. Not A single demo. Not one. I never expected them to win. I never expected them to even come close in that 30 minute head to head with SmackDown last week. Made for a cool moment in time, but certainly not something I expected to become the norm.
> 
> But go ahead. Show the AEW faithful how far “their” product has come in 2 years, confirming their biases by showing your hand in how fucking sadly you are getting worked up as the bigger budget show is barely beating the class clowns.


*Don't care about any of that. They lost by 300k viewers on a tier 4 cable channel, then proceeded to lose to a REPLAY on Fox head to head. There would be no "competition" if they were live on the same night.*


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## Prosper

The Legit DMD said:


> *Don't care about any of that. They lost by 300k viewers on a tier 4 cable channel.*


Don't care? Lol I feel like you do this for shits and giggles or like you're just trolling sometimes, how can you ignore so many of the details/context so easily? I know you love SD but damn. 😂


----------



## 3venflow

CMPunkRock316 said:


> I want a year-to-year rating like they do for The 'E


Here's the year on year total viewership including all the pre-empted shows.

2019 Average: 903,333 viewers per episode (12 shows)
2020 Average: 810,755 viewers per episode
2021 Average: 884,202 viewers per episode

Such negligible differences will be irrelevant to the network. Again it's in the demo, which I don't have the averages for (stole most of the above data from Wrestling INC) but I'm 100% sure it's better this year than 2020 since they were often under or around 0.30 last year and are always above that now in their regular timeslot.


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *Don't care about any of that. They lost by 300k viewers on a tier 4 cable channel.*


That is what YOU care about. They care about the demo. Tony Khan cares more about the demo. Vince McMahon has used the demo to claim #1 for over a decade, so they’re only playing by the rules set forth by the head honcho.

But again, did YOU ever believe for a second that AEW would be this close? Did YOU believe for a second that that shitty Rampage show could compete (even if just in the demo) against Roman/Brock and Becky/Sasha, even if on FS1? You know you never thought it.

And if you DOD think it, then again, it says a lot about how far Tiny Tim on TNT has come.


----------



## bdon

Prosper said:


> Don't care? Lol I feel like you do this for shits and giggles or like you're just trolling sometimes, how can you ignore so many of the details/context so easily? I know you love SD but damn. 😂


He is absolutely not trolling. He’s very serious about the ratings. These ratings MEAN something to him.

Poor guy will eat a fucking bullet if AEW ever beats WWE in total viewership. Thankfully that is another one that I don’t ever expect to happen.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *This whole thread's existence is AEW fans celebrating marginal demo victories as they get repeatedly cooked by total viewership. I don't even care about the demo, but it sure is funny that they can't even talk about that this week.*


Your bitterness about wrestling fans being happy about anything is what's truly funny (but also sad).

By the way, thanks for reminding us yet again that you still don't understand how ratings work.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prosper said:


> Don't care? Lol I feel like you do this for shits and giggles or like you're just trolling sometimes, how can you ignore so many of the details/context so easily? I know you love SD but damn. 😂


*What? The details that work AGAINST Smackdown?? Yet they STILL won??*


----------



## omaroo

Prosper said:


> Don't care? Lol I feel like you do this for shits and giggles or like you're just trolling sometimes, how can you ignore so many of the details/context so easily? I know you love SD but damn. 😂


Troll and hater like he is seems to be is not someone I take seriously.

I HATE the new NXT and have stopped watching that now. Raw is still like insomnia and I get why some enjoy smackdown, even I do but lets not start going on about how amazing it is when it has major flaws.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Legit dmd seems to care more aew raitings than watching wwe at this point ..and they shill wwe for free


Hell the aew raitings thread had more going on than either wwe one for some reason


----------



## Chip Chipperson

A few things.

1. I'd be very very concerned if I was AEW about now going back under a million. 8 figures was spent, TK said this was a gamechanger, it'd bring the lapsed fans back but its still just the one million (ish) smart marks that were following AEW before he dropped 10-15 million a year on big name signings.

2. Keep talking about the lucrative demo that AEW has and how people are going to spend big money to get the AEW audience. Have you guys seen the Jericho cruise photos? 80-90% men, very few partnered, many overweight and look unkempt. Unless you're selling food, drinks, toys or video games this isn't an audience you want on board with you which means the upgrade people are clamouring for likely won't become a reality and once again shows that for this show in this industry the demo might not be as important as some might think.

3. The constant changing of the story here week to week is a highlight. We're now going with "Some of the West Coast aren't watching live! That's why the number is down!" whilst last week it was "The 2000 people on the Jericho Cruise hurt the ratings!"

Reality? AEW sucks at building emotional investment therefore nobody cares about what they're doing past the good matches they put on and even for those you need to be into a certain style.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *lol @ "competing." They can't even beat a REPLAY of a Roman Reigns promo. I see you struggle to tell the difference between celebrating the demo and laughing at AEW fans literally not being able to say anything at all this week. *


Jeezus, why is this dude STILL giving credit to only 1 wrestler (who's obviously his top favorite)?

That show also had Brock Lesnar, Becky Lynch, and Charlotte Flair too. Your shameless bias and complete inability to be objective is beyond sad at this point. 

Why are you even gloating about WWE struggling to "win" anyway? You do realize that (after being on TV for 25+ years with multiple peak periods as the #1 company) that WWE is SUPPOSED to be crushing the competition, especially over a new company that's barely over 2 years old now.

Your top favorite STILL got humiliated by the freaking Bunny just nearly 2 weeks ago, so I don't get why you keep obnoxiously bringing him up still.

Who even said that the fans here are even being silent here?

You're still being called out for making nonsensical points on here, and for still failing to comprehend how ratings (or even how growth) works.

People like you are the reason why fellow AEW fans are justified to celebrate on a strong week, and shove those cold hard facts about them thriving (which they are btw) down *your* throat.


----------



## DammitChrist

Oops, sorry about my double post 

My laptop's battery just died, so that's why my post was duplicated once I hit submit.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> and shove those cold hard facts about them thriving (which they are btw) down *your* throat.


They might be thriving in other areas I'm not privy to but TV ratings isn't a place they are thriving.

28.10.2020 (Competing against NXT) - 781k

27.10.2021 - 941k

Safe to assume that if this time last year AEW wasn't up against NXT they'd probably have done around the same as they're doing now.


----------



## Prosper

The Legit DMD said:


> *What? The details that work AGAINST Smackdown?? Yet they STILL won??*


All the details that apply to both shows. All I ask for is context. Both shows were in bad spots. Both shows were always going to get overall viewer/demo counts that were less than usual on both weeks. I don't really think anyone can really celebrate Dynamite "losing" on a Saturday...because it was a Saturday. Replay or not really. But that's just me. Both shows are competing for a cable audience on a party night that could or could not be there depending on various circumstances.

If SD lost the overall or the demo it would be the same thing, it wouldn't be Roman/Becky/SD in general tanking ratings, except for AEW it'd be more notable given that they don't have the brand equity that SD has developed, which is the whole reason why it was such a talking point when they were on FS1. No one expected that. SD should have blown them out the water and I was fully expecting Tony to eat shit for what he said. Those numbers will always fluctuate outside of the norm. Last Saturday I was at a Halloween dubstep show during Dynamite and you know how much of a fan I am. Probably a bigger fan than more than half the fanbase.

There's nothing really to write home about except AEW competing in the demo. Even last week you refused to acknowledge The Bunny from what I could see. Roman/Lesnar/Sasha/Becky on a Supershow Smackdown episode losing to The Bunny and Ruby Soho on a regular Rampage is far more notable than Dynamite losing to a replay on a Saturday.

I don't mind the hyping of talents, we all have our favorites, I would just like for people to post intelligently about it is all. From what I can see people are just using this to prove their personal opinion on why they think Roman is such a godly Tribal Chief, when the reality of the situation is that the SD brand itself is what's drawing.



Chip Chipperson said:


> They might be thriving in other areas I'm not privy to but TV ratings isn't a place they are thriving.
> 
> 28.10.2020 (Competing against NXT) - 781k
> 
> 27.10.2021 - 941k
> 
> Safe to assume that if this time last year AEW wasn't up against NXT they'd probably have done around the same as they're doing now.


They're thriving based on the contract they were offered, so how privy are you? If they weren't thriving why would TNT be releasing press releases on their successes? Just for the hell of it? 

If they were on a billion dollar FOX SD deal then it would be a different story.


----------



## KrysRaw1

Tony has a bunch of major Superstars and he's invested millions of dollars and the ratings continue to fall there's a reason that the booking has been horrible focusing on too many job goofs along with long matches with little storylines that matter instead they need to go back to doing quick matches featured just they're bigger names put emphasis on storylines


----------



## Whoanma

Prosper said:


> All the details that apply to both shows. All I ask for is context. Both shows were in bad spots. Both shows were always going to get overall viewer/demo counts that were less than usual on both weeks. I don't really think anyone can really celebrate Dynamite "losing" on a Saturday...because it was a Saturday. Replay or not really. But that's just me. Both shows are competing for a cable audience on a party night that could or could not be there depending on various circumstances.
> 
> If SD lost the overall or the demo it would be the same thing, it wouldn't be Roman/Becky/SD in general tanking ratings, except for AEW it'd be more notable given that they don't have the brand equity that SD has developed, which is the whole reason why it was such a talking point when they were on FS1. No one expected that. SD should have blown them out the water and I was fully expecting Tony to eat shit for what he said. Those numbers will always fluctuate outside of the norm. Last Saturday I was at a Halloween dubstep show during Dynamite and you know how much of a fan I am. Probably a bigger fan than more than half the fanbase.
> 
> There's nothing really to write home about except AEW competing in the demo. Even last week you refused to acknowledge The Bunny from what I could see. Roman/Lesnar/Sasha/Becky on a Supershow Smackdown episode losing to The Bunny and Ruby Soho on a regular Rampage is far more notable than Dynamite losing to a replay on a Saturday.
> 
> I don't mind the hyping of talents, we all have our favorites, I would just like for people to post intelligently about it is all. From what I can see people are just using this to prove their personal opinion on why they think Roman is such a godly Tribal Chief, when the reality of the situation is that the SD brand itself is what's drawing.
> 
> 
> 
> They're thriving based on the contract they were offered, so how privy are you? If they weren't thriving why would TNT be releasing press releases on their successes? Just for the hell of it?
> 
> If they were on a billion dollar FOX SD deal then it would be a different story.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Prosper said:


> They're thriving based on the contract they were offered, so how privy are you? If they weren't thriving why would TNT be releasing press releases on their successes? Just for the hell of it?
> 
> If they were on a billion dollar FOX SD deal then it would be a different story.


It's called marketing. If I was paying 50 million dollars for a wrestling show I'd be hyping it up as much as possible as well. Spike TV hyped TNA up until the very end, TNT was hyping WCW until the end etc.


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> 2. Keep talking about the lucrative demo that AEW has and how people are going to spend big money to get the AEW audience. Have you guys seen the Jericho cruise photos? 80-90% men, very few partnered, many overweight and look unkempt. Unless you're selling food, drinks, toys or video games this isn't an audience you want on board with you which means the upgrade people are clamouring for likely won't become a reality and once again shows that for this show in this industry the demo might not be as important as some might think.


What? Its a typical wrestling audience my guy. 

Random WCW audience pic:











Random WWE audience pic:










Random TNA audience pic:


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> It's called marketing. If I was paying 50 million dollars for a wrestling show I'd be hyping it up as much as possible as well. Spike TV hyped TNA up until the very end, TNT was hyping WCW until the end etc.


The marketing that matters and draws eyes is done through commercials, billboards, etc. Press releases that are released online are only seen by the ultra dedicated segment of the audience that cares about such things. Dynamite is #1 on cable most weeks and somehow that's not a good thing for the network? Because you say so?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Prosper said:


> What? Its a typical wrestling audience my guy.
> 
> Random WCW audience pic:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Random WWE audience pic:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Random TNA audience pic:


I'll take your word on Impact because I don't watch it anymore but you're misrepresenting WWE and WCW a fair bit here. 

Hit up a WWE show next time they're in your area and you'll see they have a pretty good mix between neckbeards, families and casuals.

WCW used to have hot women in the crowd who loved guys like Hall and Nash. Tons of young college aged people as well.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Prosper said:


> The marketing that matters and draws eyes is done through commercials, billboards, etc. Press releases that are released online are only seen by the ultra dedicated segment of the audience that cares about such things. Dynamite is #1 on cable most weeks and somehow that's not a good thing for the network? Because you say so?


They are hyping their product up presumably to bring more interest to it. Dynamite is #1 which means something but when your key demo are overweight guys in their forties who haven't seen a razor in the past 12 months you have to question just how much a network is going to pay for a million of them...


----------



## bdon

Prosper said:


> What? Its a typical wrestling audience my guy.
> 
> Random WCW audience pic:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Random WWE audience pic:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Random TNA audience pic:


I never understand this argument. Wrestling has always been a mostly white trash crowd. Hah


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'll take your word on Impact because I don't watch it anymore but you're misrepresenting WWE and WCW a fair bit here.
> 
> Hit up a WWE show next time they're in your area and you'll see they have a pretty good mix between neckbeards, families and casuals.
> 
> WCW used to have hot women in the crowd who loved guys like Hall and Nash. Tons of young college aged people as well.


Didn't WCW have some sort of college sponsorship deal or something where college dorms in the US would play Nitro and have people come around, drink and eat some snacks while watching it? I swear I heard about something like that.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

It's up which is a good thing but being under a million is not ideal. With the names they have in AEW they should be doing a bit better than that.


----------



## DammitChrist

KrysRaw1 said:


> Tony has a bunch of major Superstars and he's invested millions of dollars and the ratings continue to fall there's a reason that the booking has been horrible focusing on too many job goofs along with long matches with little storylines that matter* instead they need to go back to doing quick matches featured just they're bigger names put emphasis on storylines*


No, thanks. I'm not interested in seeing another downgrade in quality to the show like with what happened to NXT last month.


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'll take your word on Impact because I don't watch it anymore but you're misrepresenting WWE and WCW a fair bit here.
> 
> Hit up a WWE show next time they're in your area and you'll see they have a pretty good mix between neckbeards, families and casuals.
> 
> WCW used to have hot women in the crowd who loved guys like Hall and Nash. Tons of young college aged people as well.


You're misrepresenting AEW crowds. You're calling all of them fat, broke slobs when the reality is that its the same audience type/feel that we have seen forever. They don't have women and families in the AEW crowd? How many kids in OC costumes have we seen? What about the kid that Punk gave his shoes to? What about all the women in the crowd at DONIII for instance? 



Chip Chipperson said:


> They are hyping their product up presumably to bring more interest to it. Dynamite is #1 which means something but when your key demo are overweight guys in their forties who haven't seen a razor in the past 12 months you have to question just how much a network is going to pay for a million of them...


Even if your argument was that they were selling food, drinks, games, etc. to this audience, its the same commercials that we see across most TV series/shows that you would see presented on TV. And these people are the same folk that are watching other shows on the networks, you just can't see them because they're not in a live crowd atmosphere. 

You're talking like these people are not the same people that watch ultra lucrative sports channels or survivalist shows for example. These are billion dollar food/drink companies that are trying to get in front of those people. How is it bad if McDonalds was trying to increase brand awareness through the middle class? They got money to blow and they have been paying for these spots to get in front of the 18-49 crowd for years whether its in front of the wrestling audience or not. 

The rich folk are not watching TV, that's why you rarely see commercials for Lamborghini's or other luxurious material products/services. The target audience for brands such as those are not in front of their TV because they're too busy working their way up to the point where they can afford such things.


----------



## Prized Fighter

Just out curiosity, does the World Series competition not matter? Because it has been mentioned forever how Raw has to deal with Monday Night Football. 

Yet this week....
MNF - 11.1 M
World Series (Wednesday) - 10.3 M


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prosper said:


> All the details that apply to both shows. All I ask for is context. Both shows were in bad spots. Both shows were always going to get overall viewer/demo counts that were less than usual on both weeks. I don't really think anyone can really celebrate Dynamite "losing" on a Saturday...because it was a Saturday. Replay or not really. But that's just me. Both shows are competing for a cable audience on a party night that could or could not be there depending on various circumstances.
> 
> If SD lost the overall or the demo it would be the same thing, it wouldn't be Roman/Becky/SD in general tanking ratings, except for AEW it'd be more notable given that they don't have the brand equity that SD has developed, which is the whole reason why it was such a talking point when they were on FS1. No one expected that. SD should have blown them out the water and I was fully expecting Tony to eat shit for what he said. Those numbers will always fluctuate outside of the norm. Last Saturday I was at a Halloween dubstep show during Dynamite and you know how much of a fan I am. Probably a bigger fan than more than half the fanbase.
> 
> There's nothing really to write home about except AEW competing in the demo. Even last week you refused to acknowledge The Bunny from what I could see. Roman/Lesnar/Sasha/Becky on a Supershow Smackdown episode losing to The Bunny and Ruby Soho on a regular Rampage is far more notable than Dynamite losing to a replay on a Saturday.
> 
> I don't mind the hyping of talents, we all have our favorites, I would just like for people to post intelligently about it is all. From what I can see people are just using this to prove their personal opinion on why they think Roman is such a godly Tribal Chief, when the reality of the situation is that the SD brand itself is what's drawing.
> 
> 
> 
> They're thriving based on the contract they were offered, so how privy are you? If they weren't thriving why would TNT be releasing press releases on their successes? Just for the hell of it?
> 
> If they were on a billion dollar FOX SD deal then it would be a different story.


*Except Smackdown didn't lose. They tied the main demo and AEW got destroyed in overall viewership as per usual, again, on a tier four cable program. SmackDown was facing them in the same death slot with a handicap and STILL won. Losing to a Roman Reigns replay after talking all that shit last week just adds to the embarrassment.*


----------



## RapShepard

* Tracking Ratings With Rap Shepard*

Let's see the Rampage numbers without Punk

Rampage #1- 740k .31 demo

Dynamite 8/18- 975k .35 demo

Rampage #2 with Punk- 1.129 million .53 demo

Dynamite 8/25 with Punk- 1.172 million .48 demo

Rampage #3 no Punk- 722k .34 demo

Dynamite 9/1 - 1.047 .37 demo

Rampage #4 with Punk- 696k .30 demo

Dynamite 9/8 with Punk, Bryan, and Cole- 1.31 million .53 demo

Rampage #5 No Punk, Bryan, or Cole- 670k .27 demo

Dynamite 9/15 with Punk, Cole, and Bryan- 1.175 million .44 demo

Rampage #6 no Punk, Cole, or Bryan - 642k .28 demo

Dynamite 9/22 Bryan vs Omega- 1.273 million .48 demo

Rampage #7 Punk vs Hobbs- 640k .28 demo

Dynamite 9/30 with Punk, Bryan, and Cole- 1.152 million .45 demo

Rampage #8 Bryan vs Nick Jackson- 622k .25 demo 

Dynamite 10/6 The Super Elite vs Bryan's ragtag group of merry men- 1.05 million .37 demo 

Rampage 9- 502k .17 demo 

Rampage 10 Bryan vs Sydal- 578k .24 demo beat SmackDown head to head

Dynamite 10/16- 727k .28 demo beat SmackDown in demo outright

Rampage 11- 533k .22 demo

Dynamite 10/23- 575k .22 demo

Dynamite 10/27 941k .40 demo


----------



## rbl85

No World Series and the show would have done 1.1-1.2M


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Food for thought: *This supposed bad number for Dynamite's 18-49 Demo still beat last week's Raw (10/18)*

Excuses in 3, 2, 1...


----------



## RapShepard

ripcitydisciple said:


> I believe 5pm is not considered 'Primetime/Evening.' It is still apart of the Daytime/Afternoon portion, so Dynamite being live on the West Coast won't be apart of the ratings that get posted normally.





LifeInCattleClass said:


> ohhhh… so - add another 100k to 200k most likely?





bdon said:


> 5pm doesn’t count, so it wasn’t just 1 or 2 cities incapable of watching live like some recent shows experienced, but an entire fucking time zone.



the chart reflects all day you have shows that aired at 10am and 2pm on the top 50 chart


----------



## Prosper

The Legit DMD said:


> *Except Smackdown didn't lose. They tied the main demo and AEW got destroyed in overall viewership as per usual, again, on a tier four cable program. SmackDown was facing them in the same death slot with a handicap and STILL won. Losing to a Roman Reigns replay after talking all that shit last week just adds to the embarrassment.*


There's no embarrassment on AEW's part whether overall win/demo tie. The fact that they're even this close already to RAW/SD is impressive. You can't deny that. I mean its not like its WCW level competition where they have mega stars like Hogan, Rock, Macho Man, or Austin. They're working with Bryan/Punk and indie/NJPW stars.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> The fact that you are celebrating a W over the former Tiny Tim says all one needs to know about where the two companies stand today.
> 
> They were never expected to compete or win. Not A single demo. Not one. I never expected them to win. I never expected them to even come close in that 30 minute head to head with SmackDown last week. Made for a cool moment in time, but certainly not something I expected to become the norm.
> 
> But go ahead. Show the AEW faithful how far “their” product has come in 2 years, confirming their biases by showing your hand in how fucking sadly you are getting worked up as the bigger budget show is barely beating the class clowns.





bdon said:


> That is what YOU care about. They care about the demo. Tony Khan cares more about the demo. Vince McMahon has used the demo to claim #1 for over a decade, so they’re only playing by the rules set forth by the head honcho.
> 
> But again, did YOU ever believe for a second that AEW would be this close? Did YOU believe for a second that that shitty Rampage show could compete (even if just in the demo) against Roman/Brock and Becky/Sasha, even if on FS1? You know you never thought it.
> 
> And if you DOD think it, then again, it says a lot about how far Tiny Tim on TNT has come.






Prosper said:


> There's no embarrassment on AEW's part whether overall win/demo tie. The fact that they're even this close already to RAW/SD is impressive. You can't deny that. I mean its not like its WCW level competition where they have mega stars like Hogan, Rock, Macho Man, or Austin. They're working with Bryan/Punk and indie/NJPW stars.




Can we all stop pretending a wrestling show with a billionaire ready to spend money, a prime time slot on TNT, and big names like Jericho, Punk, Bryan, Moxley, Omega, Cody, and The Young Bucks shouldn't be competing with any singular WWE brand. .


----------



## Garty

There are three variables, not excuses, to last night's lower ratings.

First, it was the initial broadcast schedule change in time zones, as it is no longer airs live in prime-time on the west coast (it now airs live 5PM - 7PM there) instead of the usual 8PM - 10PM as it does on the east coast. This time shift will make a marginal difference in the overall ratings going forward... which is not good news.

Second, it was back in its original time-slot on Wednesday at 8PM for the first time in three weeks (Oct. 6 - Oct. 27) after being preempted for the NHL... which is already drawing flies in comparison to AEW in that same time-slot prior.

Third, a huge rating number for the MLB playoff game. Over 10 million viewers and a 1.32 in the 18-34 demographic. When numbers are that high nothing can be considered competition, other than the fight for second place.


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> Can we all stop pretending a wrestling show with a billionaire ready to spend money, a prime time slot on TNT, and big names like Jericho, Punk, Bryan, Moxley, Omega, Cody, and The Young Bucks shouldn't be competing with any singular WWE brand. .


They ARE competing though, they are getting more and more wins over time, its just that they're not completely on WWE's level yet, which makes sense. Its not automatic. The highest Dynamite has ever done after their debut I believe was 1.3 mil and the lowest RAW has done was 1.5 mil overall. They are almost neck and neck in the demos. I'm certain most that watch both brands would agree that the AEW product is far superior from a content and roster standpoint. They're expanding internationally to other countries with AEW reportedly being more popular in the UK than WWE (on TV) at this point. They are selling out arenas at faster rates with similar capacities than WWE in some markets at higher prices in some cases. Numbers on the Canada TSN network are reportedly better than expected. All the talk and hype in the industry in the last 2 years has been about AEW for the most part. That looks like competition to me.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Can we all stop pretending a wrestling show with a billionaire ready to spend money, a prime time slot on TNT, and big names like Jericho, Punk, Bryan, Moxley, Omega, Cody, and The Young Bucks shouldn't be competing with any singular WWE brand. .


A) Vince has far more money invested in his promotion.
B) Wrestling is a niche audience.
C) WWE brand awareness is as much a part of American culture as Disney, hence the belief that Disney will buy WWE when the time comes.

They are competing. Whether you like it or not, they are slowly walking them down. From “doesn’t stand a chance and will never happen” to “well, they just won an obscure male demo” to “well, they are just winning male demos because neckbeards love Indy wrestling” to “well, they just won that one obscure female demo” to “well, they won the overall 18-49 demo, but…”

How long before all of these small instances begin to accumulate into one large, “Oh shit!” moment?


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> *They ARE competing though,* they are getting more and more wins over time, its just that they're not completely on WWE's level yet, which makes sense. Its not automatic. The highest Dynamite has ever done after their debut I believe was 1.3 mil and the lowest RAW has done was 1.5 mil overall. They are almost neck and neck in the demos. I'm certain most that watch both brands would agree that the AEW product is far superior from a content and roster standpoint. They're expanding internationally to other countries with AEW reportedly being more popular in the UK than WWE (on TV) at this point. They are selling out arenas at faster rates with similar capacities than WWE in some markets at higher prices in some cases. Numbers on the Canada TSN network are reportedly better than expected. All the talk and hype in the industry in the last 2 years has been about AEW for the most part. That looks like competition to me.






bdon said:


> A) Vince has far more money invested in his promotion.
> B) Wrestling is a niche audience.
> C) WWE brand awareness is as much a part of American culture as Disney, hence the belief that Disney will buy WWE when the time comes.
> 
> *They are competing. Whether you like it or not, they are slowly walking them down.* From “doesn’t stand a chance and will never happen” to “well, they just won an obscure male demo” to “well, they are just winning male demos because neckbeards love Indy wrestling” to “well, they just won that one obscure female demo” to “well, they won the overall 18-49 demo, but…”
> 
> How long before all of these small instances begin to accumulate into one large, “Oh shit!” moment?


This is why reading comprehension is important.

Again why are we taking a brand that has a billionaire backer, prime time TV on a great channel, and big names in wrestling like Jericho, Punk, Bryan, Moxley, Cody, Omega, and The Bucks and acting as if it's insane that it can draw fans to arenas and compete with any particular WWE brand in ratings. Should a promotion with all this going for it not be doing just this?


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> This is why reading comprehension is important.
> 
> Again why are we taking a brand that has a billionaire backer, prime time TV on a great channel, and big names in wrestling like Jericho, Punk, Bryan, Moxley, Cody, Omega, and The Bucks and acting as if it's insane that it can draw fans to arenas and compete with any particular WWE brand in ratings. Should a promotion with all this going for it not be doing just this?


They should, but it's still something that should be looked at as hyped by the fanbase that's followed the story from day one. And it wasn't something that people would expect to happen so fast in under 2 years. At the start at that press conference before/after All In, they talked about how they were gonna change the wrestling industry and that we were gonna come along on the ride with them, and now that it is happening on a week by week basis, it's more applause like "Damn they actually were right", more so than "Yeah that was expected". This is sustained excietement that was already there before they got the TV deal. 

They didn't have the roster that they have now either at the start and they were still doing great metrics that are just progressively getting better. WWE hasn't had real competition for like 20 years so it's exciting to see a new company nip at their toes, even if some expected it to happen. There's also the prospect of WWE getting their shit together for the fans like myself who watch both brands and just want all of wrestling to be great.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> This is why reading comprehension is important.
> 
> Again why are we taking a brand that has a billionaire backer, prime time TV on a great channel, and big names in wrestling like Jericho, Punk, Bryan, Moxley, Cody, Omega, and The Bucks and acting as if it's insane that it can draw fans to arenas and compete with any particular WWE brand in ratings. Should a promotion with all this going for it not be doing just this?


Did you or anyone really expect them to ever compete with WWE? I’m being dead serious. Go back two years. Did you ever really think this would occur?

I certainly didn’t. I thought it would merely be a decent enough show for me to give my attention to as a “Fuck you” to Vince McMahon and show my loyalty to TNT, out of respect for my WCW love.

What I found was a show that genuinely interested ME but probably wasn’t for everyone, given I hated most of the Attitude era shenanigans. I accepted that I have an eclectic taste for all things, wrestling included. Slapping NXT around? Sure. That’s doable. But competing with The Machine in Stamford? No fucking way. Not with Jericho and some Indy guys no one has ever heard of.

And yet here we are. Competing.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW's remaining schedule in 2021 with tickets sold and tickets remaining.


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> They should, but it's still something that should be looked at as hyped by the fanbase that's followed the story from day one. And it wasn't something that people would expect to happen so fast in under 2 years. At the start at that press conference before/after All In, they talked about how they were gonna change the wrestling industry and that we were gonna come along on the ride with them, and now that it is happening on a week by week basis, it's more applause like "Damn they actually were right", more so than "Yeah that was expected". This is sustained excietement that was already there before they got the TV deal.
> 
> They didn't have the roster that they have now either at the start and they were still doing great metrics that are just progressively getting better. WWE hasn't had real competition for like 20 years so it's exciting to see a new company nip at their toes, even if some expected it to happen. There's also the prospect of WWE getting their shit together for the fans like myself who watch both brands and just want all of wrestling to be great.


Yeah they're delivering, but when you have the advantages and stars they have they should be expected to be within range. They're new but they got a lot of things going for them as a business and show. Good results should be expected at this point.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> Did you or anyone really expect them to ever compete with WWE? I’m being dead serious. Go back two years. Did you ever really think this would occur?
> 
> I certainly didn’t. I thought it would merely be a decent enough show for me to give my attention to as a “Fuck you” to Vince McMahon and show my loyalty to TNT, out of respect for my WCW love.
> 
> What I found was a show that genuinely interested ME but probably wasn’t for everyone, given I hated most of the Attitude era shenanigans. I accepted that I have an eclectic taste for all things, wrestling included. Slapping NXT around? Sure. That’s doable. But competing with The Machine in Stamford? No fucking way. Not with Jericho and some Indy guys no one has ever heard of.
> 
> And yet here we are. Competing.


But you also renew expectations when new info comes in. The ass beating it gave NXT showed they clearly had an audience that wanted this option. Then add in the steady stream off names they've got. At some point haters, lovers, and in-betweens have to acknowledge they didn't come around to get lil brothered and have carved them a sizeable chunk of the wrestling fan base to their side.


----------



## ClintDagger

Chip Chipperson said:


> A few things.
> 
> 1. I'd be very very concerned if I was AEW about now going back under a million. 8 figures was spent, TK said this was a gamechanger, it'd bring the lapsed fans back but its still just the one million (ish) smart marks that were following AEW before he dropped 10-15 million a year on big name signings.
> 
> 2. Keep talking about the lucrative demo that AEW has and how people are going to spend big money to get the AEW audience. Have you guys seen the Jericho cruise photos? 80-90% men, very few partnered, many overweight and look unkempt. Unless you're selling food, drinks, toys or video games this isn't an audience you want on board with you which means the upgrade people are clamouring for likely won't become a reality and once again shows that for this show in this industry the demo might not be as important as some might think.
> 
> 3. The constant changing of the story here week to week is a highlight. We're now going with "Some of the West Coast aren't watching live! That's why the number is down!" whilst last week it was "The 2000 people on the Jericho Cruise hurt the ratings!"
> 
> Reality? AEW sucks at building emotional investment therefore nobody cares about what they're doing past the good matches they put on and even for those you need to be into a certain style.


Wrestling has horrible demos. Atrocious. Hideous. Grotesque. I can’t come up with enough words to stress this. Just because the age numbers look good doesn’t mean the actual demographics are good. Wrestling fans are poor and uneducated and advertisers know this. It’s why the “A” brand of wrestling in WWE has cheap insurance, cheap cell phone carriers, junk food, and fast food as their sponsors. And it’s why you don’t see luxury cars, Rolex, etcetera advertising on wrestling shows. They know the demos are trash.


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> Yeah they're delivering, but when you have the advantages and stars they have they should be expected to be within range. They're new but they got a lot of things going for them as a business and show. Good results should be expected at this point.


I mean yeah at this point I'm just expecting things to get better and better especially given the FS1 stuff last week and ticket sales, but no reason not to acknowledge and celebrate the wins along the way. This might be a shitty example but it's almost like Brady when he was on the Patriots, year after year their fanbase knew they would have a winning record and get a playoff spot, it was automatic, but they would always celebrate on the way to post season.


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> That’s what I figured and always assumed about television shows.
> 
> Must suck having to watch series Finales on the west coast, praying someone on the East Coast respectfully keeps spoilers quiet haha


I almost never watch TV live other than sports so the time zone never really matters for me in respect to that. NFL starting at 10am on Sundays is still weird though.


----------



## Prosper

ClintDagger said:


> Wrestling has horrible demos. Atrocious. Hideous. Grotesque. I can’t come up with enough words to stress this. Just because the age numbers look good doesn’t mean the actual demographics are good. Wrestling fans are poor and uneducated and advertisers know this. It’s why the “A” brand of wrestling in WWE has *cheap insurance, cheap cell phone carriers, junk food, and fast food *as their sponsors. And it’s why you don’t see luxury cars, Rolex, etcetera advertising on wrestling shows. They know the demos are trash.


All billion dollar companies who have boatloads of money to give the networks for that "trash" and see them as big drivers of company revenue. It's not about advertising high-value stuff to the middle class, it's about advertising middle-class stuff to the low-mid class, all of which gives them the return they are looking for.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> Can we all stop pretending a wrestling show with a billionaire ready to spend money, a prime time slot on TNT, and big names like Jericho, Punk, Bryan, Moxley, Omega, Cody, and The Young Bucks shouldn't be competing with any singular WWE brand. .


*I know right? They act like it's NWA with a bunch of random hillbillies in the main event.*


----------



## One Shed

I think the west coast airing live is not as black and white as some are taking it.

I live on the west coast and always watch it live. It depends on how people are watching it. Anyone with satellite is going to have the East and West coast feeds for TNT. I always watch the East coast feed. Anyone streaming from tnt.com would have the same option.

So it is hard to know for sure right now exactly how many people this affected.


----------



## AuthorOfPosts

RapShepard said:


> Can we all stop pretending a wrestling show with a billionaire ready to spend money, a prime time slot on TNT, and big names like Jericho, Punk, Bryan, Moxley, Omega, Cody, and The Young Bucks shouldn't be competing with any singular WWE brand. .


Not to mention the endless amount of hand holding and positive press when it comes to coverage.

There's very little struggle they had to go through but for some reason we have to pretend this is a wrestling promotion that fought against all odds and grew from the bottom.


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> I mean yeah at this point I'm just expecting things to get better and better especially given the FS1 stuff last week and ticket sales, but no reason not to acknowledge and celebrate the wins along the way. This might be a shitty example but it's almost like Brady when he was on the Patriots, year after year their fanbase knew they would have a winning record and get a playoff spot, it was automatic, but they would always celebrate on the way to post season.


For sure talk shit with the wins. I'm just saying it's probably time we recontextualize what they are and reasonable expectations for them.


The Legit DMD said:


> *I know right? They act like it's NWA with a bunch of random hillbillies in the main event.*


Though I guess they do deserve credit for not Dixie Cartering it lol. She had stars and didn't do half as well lol.


AuthorOfPosts said:


> Not to mention the endless amount of hand holding and positive press when it comes to coverage.
> 
> There's very little struggle they had to go through but for some reason we have to pretend this is a wrestling promotion that fought against all odds and grew from the bottom.


It gets overlooked at low how they brought their way into the 2 spot lol. Tony still had to make it work, but he started the game with cheat codes if you will lol.


----------



## La Parka

RapShepard said:


> Can we all stop pretending a wrestling show with a billionaire ready to spend money, a prime time slot on TNT, and big names like Jericho, Punk, Bryan, Moxley, Omega, Cody, and The Young Bucks shouldn't be competing with any singular WWE brand. .


No, we must wait until AEW has been around for as long as WWF/E.

So 50 or so years from now is when we can really have a talk about ratings. Put it on your calendar and hope we all live 50 more years!


----------



## One Shed

La Parka said:


> No, we must wait until AEW has been around for as long as WWF/E.
> 
> So 50 or so years from now is when we can really have a talk about ratings. Put it on your calendar and hope we all live 50 more years!


Vince will be there. We know that much.


----------



## thorn123

There are no excuses. If they want to considered a "big" promotion then this is unacceptable. If they want to stop spending so much $$ and employing every man and their dog and just produce a niche quality wrestling product then good. I would be a keen viewer.
No booking, no stars, there is nothing that will let them compete with the fed (except the rock ... maybe)


----------



## One Shed

DaveRA said:


> There are no excuses. If they want to considered a "big" promotion then this is unacceptable. If they want to stop spending so much $$ and employing every man and their dog and just produce a niche quality wrestling product then good. I would be a keen viewer.
> No booking, no stars, there is nothing that will let them compete with the fed (except the rock ... maybe)


Tony has a vested interested in employing dogs. Sorry...could not help myself.


----------



## Mister Sinister

They have receded during the last month when they should have continually built their audience every week. The booking isn't working. The lack of PPVs, the lack of stories and feuds, the lack of booking for the PPVs until the last couple weeks even though there are three months between shows, the leaning on not one but two f'n tournaments at the same time to fill out the cards,* the inverted booking with the draw matches in the opening match and the jobbers in the main event, the decay of the TNT title* with this attempt to check some box with their inner mark by pushing a young guy who isn't drawing, the jobbers everywhere in the card, the attention to Bobby Fish just as with the previous unknown NXT signings (the mass audience is asking, "who?"), *the failed Omega/Page story, the failure to put the title on Danielson when the audience was watching*, the absence of stars like Christian, etc, etc. It's bad. Last night's show was bad. It was so bad that I turned it off. The creative has to change. *The whole format of the show has to change. The emphasis on who gets the spotlight must change. It's not just about creative (or lack of), it's about business decisions on who is champion and how to properly write a program to promote a PPV.*


----------



## La Parka

Two Sheds said:


> Vince will be there. We know that much.


Raw will be incredible!


----------



## 3venflow

Mister Sinister said:


> They have receded during the last month when they should have continually built their audience every week.


Dynamite has 'receded' in the last month because they've moved timeslots, simple as that. Before the move, ratings were:

0.37 / 1.05m
0.52 / 1.32m
0.44 / 1.18m
0.48 / 1.27m
0.45 / 1.15m
0.37 1.05m

... from the start of September until October 16, when they were moved to Saturday.

Then we got the Saturday night shows. And all shows suffer when they're moved.

0.28 / 727k
0.22 / 575k

And the return to Wednesday...

0.40 / 941k

Obviously the return to Wednesday this week had a slightly lower viewership than the usual 1m-plus but there were several factors in that. One of them is returning to the timeslot after a break. Last time that happened, ratings went from 0.21 / 649k (Saturday night) to 0.35 / 883k. Two weeks later they were at a million.

Their demo this week (and again, THAT IS MORE IMPORTANT than having 50,000 or 100,000 less people watching overall) was better than two of the shows in the weeks prior to the Saturday night switch, including the final Wednesday edition before the shift.

If anything, Rampage is the show that _might_ need looking at if the ratings drop much further, but it's a difficult timeslot and unless you can find a CM Punk level star to bring back every week, you're not going to do huge ratings there.

Dynamite is doing good ratings and right up there at the top of the cable charts. Before the recent live sports surge, they were regularly number one, but it's kinda hard to top NBA.



> Last night's show was bad. It was so bad that I turned it off. The creative has to change. The whole format of the show has to change. The emphasis on who gets the spotlight must change.


Nothing *has *to change. That's all subjective. Plenty of people thought Dynamite this week was great (I did - except the main event). They're still very much pleasing the core audience and the core audience is enough to get them a better TV deal, draw really good attendances on the road, do good PPV buyrates, and grow in most other metrics (FITE TV subs have doubled since Punk arrived). The whole 'if AEW did things the way *I* want them, things would improve' argument has been done to death on here. Yet every person has their own ideas, which others then won't agree with. Simply put, you can't please everyone but AEW does a fine job of pleasing the majority of its base and it would only *have to change* if they were actually failing. They're not failing unless you have unrealistic expectations and think wrestling is going back to 1999 level.


----------



## 3venflow

Tony Schiavone on his podcast:

"I think we’re going to see a streaming service — This is my thought, I don’t know anything for sure. Just by talking to people, I think there’s going to be a streaming service by the end of 2022. So I think it’s going to come up very, very soon."


----------



## Chip Chipperson

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Didn't WCW have some sort of college sponsorship deal or something where college dorms in the US would play Nitro and have people come around, drink and eat some snacks while watching it? I swear I heard about something like that.


They did, they were called Nitro parties.






This was in 1999 when WCW was in decline so if you look at the people involved in this Nitro party you have good looking college aged people even including a few women. Very few neckbeards though, it's an attractive audience to market a product to. WCW also did a show annually for Spring Break which was obviously aimed at 18-25 year old people.

Imagine if Dynamite did a Dynamite Party these days...



Prosper said:


> There's no embarrassment on AEW's part whether overall win/demo tie. The fact that they're even this close already to RAW/SD is impressive. You can't deny that. I mean its not like its WCW level competition where they have mega stars like Hogan, Rock, Macho Man, or Austin. They're working with Bryan/Punk and indie/NJPW stars.


Just Bryan/Punk and Indy/NJPW stars, hey?

What about Cody, Moxley, Jericho, Sting, Miro, Adam Cole, Christian Cage, Dustin Rhodes, FTR, Jake Hager, Mark Henry, Matt Hardy, Pac, Paul Wight and the countless others who have spent significant time on WWE TV?


----------



## bdon

Two Sheds said:


> I think the west coast airing live is not as black and white as some are taking it.
> 
> I live on the west coast and always watch it live. It depends on how people are watching it. Anyone with satellite is going to have the East and West coast feeds for TNT. I always watch the East coast feed. Anyone streaming from tnt.com would have the same option.
> 
> So it is hard to know for sure right now exactly how many people this affected.


Yes. Satellite allows for that option, but we have discussed previously how streaming services won’t show up in the ratings, which a younger demographic is no doubt more likely to use. You and I both being obvious examples: I get to watch AEW live and on an actual television once a month when I’m home and off the boat, otherwise I’m forced to watch on my cell.

Which goes back to the largest point: these ratings don’t fucking matter this much. Lmao


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> For sure talk shit with the wins. I'm just saying it's probably time we recontextualize what they are and reasonable expectations for them.


Agreed. Which is why numbers like today are “bad”, but likely will be proven as more of an outlier with AEW likely getting stability back being on Wednesday for the foreseeable future.


RapShepard said:


> It gets overlooked at low how they brought their way into the 2 spot lol. Tony still had to make it work, but he started the game with cheat codes if you will lol.


It’s wrestling’s equivalent of White Privilege, being born on 2nd base, crossing home plate, and pretending you’re better than the guy who actually got contact with the ball that allowed you to get there. Hah


----------



## One Shed

bdon said:


> Yes. Satellite allows for that option, but we have discussed previously how streaming services won’t show up in the ratings, which a younger demographic is no doubt more likely to use. You and I both being obvious examples: I get to watch AEW live and on an actual television once a month when I’m home and off the boat, otherwise I’m forced to watch on my cell.
> 
> Which goes back to the largest point: these ratings don’t fucking matter this much. Lmao


Oh I agree. I hate this thread.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> This thread started with most (certainly not I) never expecting Dynamite to compete with the WWE main roster. It was NXT, and many argued as though NXT would slowly and eventually crush AEW.
> 
> Now after 2 years, AEW has some asterisked wins over WWE, and even that is surprising. You can’t possibly think AEW competing is such an expected occurrence that you, as a WWE fan, are celebrating WWE Main Roster wins in the demo, right? Is that how far WWE has fallen..?
> 
> Or is that how far AEW has _GREW_?
> 
> Thanks for making the biggest argument for those AEW fans in here who genuinely care about this ratings shit.


lol - this is so true

we’ve come a long way from the ‘they’ll be dead in 2 years’ discussions which started the ratings thread

in fact, most of those users are gone


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> in fact, most of those users are gone


Yep. Cult, Wood, and others are long gone, so AEW has outlived users on message boards.

TK May have something here. Haha


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> the chart reflects all day you have shows that aired at 10am and 2pm on the top 50 chart


the 2 hours on the west coast might be out of the top 150 - which means it might be unaccounted numbers

but it does not make a big difference, it will be less than 100k

somebody will find out if this is the case


----------



## Not Lying

La Parka said:


> No, we must wait until AEW has been around for as long as WWF/E.
> 
> So 50 or so years from now is when we can really have a talk about ratings. Put it on your calendar and hope we all live 50 more years!


Took WCW 6-7 years.
Takes companies 5-10 years to mature.

Nobody's saying wait 50, it should take them a couple of more years now.

Just don't be salty when the seeds planted today show up in 2-3 years.


----------



## bdon

The Definition of Technician said:


> Took WCW 6-7 years.
> Takes companies 5-10 years to mature.
> 
> Nobody's saying wait 50, it should take them a couple of more years now.
> 
> Just don't be salty when the seeds planted today show up in 2-3 years.


Bingo.

It doesn’t happen overnight. These weekly and monthly factoids dropping can - and if ticket sales are an indicator, eventually WILL - begin to snowball.


----------



## Not Lying

bdon said:


> Bingo.
> 
> It doesn’t happen overnight. These weekly and monthly factoids dropping can - and if ticket sales are an indicator, eventually WILL - begin to snowball.


The fact they're also growing steadily, especially compared to previous years, and knowing A LOT more money is coming in the next 2 years from the next TV deal, all helps them grow their brand.


----------



## zkorejo

bdon said:


> This thread started with most (certainly not I) never expecting Dynamite to compete with the WWE main roster. It was NXT, and many argued as though NXT would slowly and eventually crush AEW.
> 
> Now after 2 years, AEW has some asterisked wins over WWE, and even that is surprising. You can’t possibly think AEW competing is such an expected occurrence that you, as a WWE fan, are celebrating WWE Main Roster wins in the demo, right? Is that how far WWE has fallen..?
> 
> Or is that how far AEW has _GREW_?
> 
> Thanks for making the biggest argument for those AEW fans in here who genuinely care about this ratings shit.












Being in the same conversation with WWE in just 2 years is a big deal. People here expecting AEW to beat WWE already is laughable. 

In the state they are in, survival is actually a victory. After 5-10 years, we will see where AEW actually stands. 

Now I'm not saying they will start beating WWE in ratings but if I'm being completely honest, I didn't expect them to kill NXT like they did and I didn't expect to survive smackdown. I honestly also didn't expect them to outdraw crowds in some cities. Not this soon I didn't.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the 2 hours on the west coast might be out of the top 150 - which means it might be unaccounted numbers
> 
> but it does not make a big difference, it will be less than 100k
> 
> somebody will find out if this is the case


So we don't know until we get those numbers reported, but you believe that less than a 100k people watch AEW on the West Coast? Really?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ripcitydisciple said:


> So we don't know until we get those numbers reported, but you believe that less than a 100k people watch AEW on the West Coast? Really?


i'm assuming - because on Showbuzzdaily you can see the top 150 - and number 150 is 100k total people

so, if they are reporting this hour separate I just assumed it would be below that (because it wasn't in the top 150)

which is too low - which makes me think they are either

1. not reporting it at all as a separate hour (which'll be weird)
or
2. it is added to the 8PM number

either / or - I don't know

maybe I'll ask than Brandon wrestlenomics guy on twitter


----------



## ripcitydisciple

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i'm assuming - because on Showbuzzdaily you can see the top 150 - and number 150 is 100k total people
> 
> so, if they are reporting this hour separate I just assumed it would be below that (because it wasn't in the top 150)
> 
> which is too low - which makes me think they are either
> 
> 1. not reporting it at all as a separate hour (which'll be weird)
> or
> 2. it is added to the 8PM number
> 
> either / or - I don't know
> 
> maybe I'll ask than Brandon wrestlenomics guy on twitter


Here's thing, I think all of Dynamite on the West Coast is separate from the ratings of everyone else. Not just the first hour. 6pm isn't Primetime either.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ripcitydisciple said:


> Here's thing, I think all of Dynamite on the West Coast is separate from the ratings of everyone else. Not just the first hour. 6pm isn't Primetime either.


yeah, but showbuzz’s top 150 is not about primetime - its the whole day.

in the top 150, there are shows at 16:00 and earlier too


----------



## RapShepard

ripcitydisciple said:


> Here's thing, I think all of Dynamite on the West Coast is separate from the ratings of everyone else. Not just the first hour. 6pm isn't Primetime either.


Why would it be separate when it's airing live? The ratings count shit going all the way back to like 10am. The west coast airing will be factored into the normal 8pm east coast airing slot.


----------



## 3venflow

Cody DRAW. Time for his three-year world title reign.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1454031487561396228


----------



## rbl85

So Cody segment did the best rating ?


----------



## DammitChrist

That’s weird. I thought Cody Rhodes was a “ratings killer.”


----------



## Not Lying

That MF is seriously going to believe he’s John Cena now

Black has been doing well in ratings. He was the smoothest transition to AEW, maybe because not a lot of Main Roster stink was on him.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1454123849717518349

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1454125074219470863

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Garty

WWE Raw Nov. 29th UBS Arena... Buy 1 Get 1 Free Promotion

https://www.ticketmaster.com/event/....29.21&utm_term=Events - NY - Brooklyn - 80mi


----------



## bdon

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1454125074219470863
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Britt Baker again tanking the ratings, @LifeInCattleClass


----------



## DaSlacker

RapShepard said:


> Can we all stop pretending a wrestling show with a billionaire ready to spend money, a prime time slot on TNT, and big names like Jericho, Punk, Bryan, Moxley, Omega, Cody, and The Young Bucks shouldn't be competing with any singular WWE brand. .


I'm not sure Cody and The Elite are big names outside of their own fanbase. 

It would make an interesting case study 

1) Can a new product/brand - if budget is of no concern - instantly go neck and neck, in every market, with a long established similar product/brand. 

2) Is said new product entering into an oversaturated market. How many people want more wrestling on top of the 3 hours on a Monday, 2 hours on a Tuesday etc. And simply not offering something different enough to push the vast majority of people to walk away from something that caters to the family. Something they are attached to subconsciously. 

I mean, quality is subjective. But let's say objectively AEW is better than WWE. In the same way we could say Jaws is more artistic and deeper than The Meg. The problem there is a lot of people want harmless, easy to digest, unemotional entertainment. WWE caters for that in the same way a record company caters to teens via chart music. Yet WWE also offers enough for the wider fanbase. Whether that is the tightly structured and ok written SmackDown, or the offshoot NXT. 

Against all this you have declining ratings. The NBA finals at an all time low, the World Series at an all time low, no new cable based show attracting more than 1 million viewers...


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Britt Baker again tanking the ratings, @LifeInCattleClass


dammit - no wonder they are putting Rerun Reigns against her tonight - they think they can win

if only there were users on here that was ‘ride or die’ with Baker :,(


----------



## Kishido

Demo is great. WWE is soon history, when all the old people will die


----------



## Hitman1987

LifeInCattleClass said:


> dammit - no wonder they are putting Rerun Reigns against her tonight - they think they can win
> 
> if only there were users on here that was ‘ride or die’ with Baker :,(


Rerun reigns 😂😂😂


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Hitman1987 said:


> Rerun reigns 😂😂😂


i demand everybody call him that now 

acknowledge my Reruns!


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> dammit - no wonder they are putting Rerun Reigns against her tonight - they think they can win
> 
> if only there were users on here that was ‘ride or die’ with Baker :,(


----------



## Whoanma

The Legit DMD said:


>


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> Just Bryan/Punk and Indy/NJPW stars, hey?
> 
> What about Cody, Moxley, Jericho, Sting, Miro, Adam Cole, Christian Cage, Dustin Rhodes, FTR, Jake Hager, Mark Henry, Matt Hardy, Pac, Paul Wight and the countless others who have spent significant time on WWE TV?


My point though is that no one is a real cable draw nowadays including everyone you listed, not even Lesnar and Rousey, so expecting AEW to automatically take over in under 2 years based off of just modern era roster names is pushing it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I’ve been reading ‘the Death of WCW’ the last couple of days

its funny how cyclical this industry is

all things considered, I think when you measure against the past, AEW is on a good wicket


----------



## Randy Lahey

0.40 going against the World Series is a good number


----------



## Randy Lahey

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1454125074219470863
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Brit Baker tanking the ratings again. I think they need to get rid of her 2 lackeys, and get her back into a feud with Rosa 1 on 1


----------



## LacunaCoiled

Randy Lahey said:


> Brit Baker tanking the ratings again. I think they need to get rid of her 2 lackeys, and get her back into a feud with Rosa 1 on 1


She’s more over than Becky apparently.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Don't mind me, just enjoying my favorite ratings tanker.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1454176323799240705*


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Let’s be real here…Jamie Hayter spooking Rebel scared the viewers away 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> Let’s be real here…Jamie Hayter spooking Rebel scared the viewers away
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*I'm honestly surprised no one stayed for the Sammy match because that was easily MOTN. I'm tired of these jobbers like Ethan Page getting paired with my faves and making people tune out.*


----------



## DammitChrist

Serena Deeb vs Hikaru Shida was MOTN.

CM Punk vs Bobby Fish and Dark Order vs the Elite were really good matches too.


----------



## cai1981

Before anyone gets caught up in the fact that Wednesday's Dynamite MAY have more total viewers than tonight's Smackdown, remember:

Smackdown is on FS1 again!

I expect Smackdown to outperform Rampage again in total viewers, but the possibility is there for Smackdown to finish below Dynamite's 940k.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

cai1981 said:


> Before anyone gets caught up in the fact that Wednesday's Dynamite MAY have more total viewers than tonight's Smackdown, remember:
> 
> Smackdown is on FS1 again!
> 
> I expect Smackdown to outperform Rampage again in total viewers, but the possibility is there for Smackdown to finish below Dynamite's 940k.


it will finish below dynamite

and the channel shouldn’t matter - that’s what we’ve been told countless times

’the time and the channel and the blah blah blah’

if Baseball on Fs1 can beat Smackdown on Fox in the demo last friday - then smackdown has no excuse

Rerun Reigns better put up a helluva fight


----------



## DaSlacker

SmackDown is against the World Series. It's looking at about 845,000 viewers imo.


----------



## Prized Fighter

The Legit DMD said:


> *I'm honestly surprised no one stayed for the Sammy match because that was easily MOTN. I'm tired of these jobbers like Ethan Page getting paired with my faves and making people tune out.*


Huh? Sammy vs Page gained almost 100k viewers between their two segments. We would need to see a minute by minute to know how much was their match vs the other parts of Q4 though.


----------



## bdon

Prized Fighter said:


> Huh? Sammy vs Page gained almost 100k viewers between their two segments. We would need to see a minute by minute to know how much was their match vs the other parts of Q4 though.


He still hasn’t learned what the Quarter Hour breakdown means. He thinks that line represents a literal minute-by-minute breakdown.


----------



## Prized Fighter

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it will finish below dynamite
> 
> and the channel shouldn’t matter - that’s what we’ve been told countless times
> 
> ’the time and the channel and the blah blah blah’
> 
> if Baseball on Fs1 can beat Smackdown on Fox in the demo last friday - then smackdown has no excuse
> 
> Rerun Reigns better put up a helluva fight


Fun fact:
TNT: 89.5 million homes

FS1: 90 million homes according to their official website (FS1 | Fox Sports PressPass) - edit: that could be at their launch. The best estimate currently is that they are in between 79 million to 83 million homes.

Fox: 102.5 million homes


----------



## bdon

Prized Fighter said:


> Fun fact:
> TNT: 89.5 million homes
> 
> FS1: 90 million homes according to their official website (FS1 | Fox Sports PressPass)
> 
> Fox: 102.5 million homes


Ouch!!!


----------



## Prized Fighter

bdon said:


> Ouch!!!


For fairness, I did edit my post because I think they meant it was 90 million at launch.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prized Fighter said:


> Huh? Sammy vs Page gained almost 100k viewers between their two segments. We would need to see a minute by minute to know how much was their match vs the other parts of Q4 though.


*Trolls ignored that for Britt vs Anna and just focused on the beginning of the match. *


----------



## Prized Fighter

The Legit DMD said:


> *Trolls ignored that for Britt vs Anna and just focused on the beginning of the match. *


Yah both sides are seeing what they want for sure The quarterly breakdowns can be kind of ambiguous because their is no minute to minute. It is fine for debate though. I do think it helps if a match goes through two quarters.

I also have no illusions that Britt isn't a draw. She is one of the top draws regardless of gender/division. One quarter doesn't change that.


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *Trolls ignored that for Britt vs Anna and just focused on the beginning of the match. *


No, we were repeating the same stupid shit you have used for MONTHS to discredit big numbers by those you don’t enjoy.

Dude, the Quarter Hour breakdown means 1/4 of an hour, aka 15 minute segments. That number shows what the AVERAGE viewership was for that ENTIRE 15 minute portion of the show.

The goddamn line between the numbers is just a visual. It does not fucking represent viewers changing the channel slowly or slowly returning. How many times does this need to be pointed out to you?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> No, we were repeating the same stupid shit you have used for MONTHS to discredit big numbers by those you don’t enjoy.


Yup - i love Brit and think she is a draw

but its just a little rib to DMD for always doing the same thing to other wrestlers he doesn’t like


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

bdon said:


> No, we were repeating the same stupid shit you have used for MONTHS to discredit big numbers by those you don’t enjoy.
> 
> Dude, the Quarter Hour breakdown means 1/4 of an hour, aka 15 minute segments. That number shows what the AVERAGE viewership was for that ENTIRE 15 minute portion of the show.
> 
> The goddamn line between the numbers is just a visual. It does not fucking represent viewers changing the channel slowly or slowly returning. How many times does this need to be pointed out to you?


*It's literally the same situation with Sammy on Dynamite and Britt on Rampage and you just exposed yourself with a blatant contradiction. Like I said, Britt GAINED viewers by the end of her match with Anna Jay, but you wanted to make excuses to discredit her because you're still mad about Elite segments flopping.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *It's literally the same situation with Sammy on Dynamite and Britt on Rampage and you just exposed yourself with a blatant contradiction. Like I said, Britt GAINED viewers by the end of her match with Anna Jay, but you wanted to make excuses to discredit her because you're still mad about Elite segments flopping.*


What are the odds on Baker’s match having a lower rating tonight as well?

gotta start keeping those ‘tanked’ thoughts internal DMD - it gives too much ammo


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> What are the odds on Baker’s match having a lower rating tonight as well?
> 
> gotta start keeping those ‘tanked’ thoughts internal DMD - it gives too much ammo


*I'm always going to be on The Elite's ass as long as these shitty tag matches continue. This changes nothing, so get your jabs in while you can.*


----------



## Randy Lahey

Facts are Brit segments have now tanked two distinct episodes of Dynamite. First was the Brit/Soho match from Grand Slam, then this past Wed. That is undeniable.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *I'm always going to be on The Elite's ass as long as these shitty tag matches continue. This changes nothing, so get your jabs in while you can.*


nah, no fun to kick Baker 

i’ll wait for when Rerun Reigns shits the bed


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *It's literally the same situation with Sammy on Dynamite and Britt on Rampage and you just exposed yourself with a blatant contradiction. Like I said, Britt GAINED viewers by the end of her match with Anna Jay, but you wanted to make excuses to discredit her because you're still mad about Elite segments flopping.*


No, I have always went by the QUARTER HOUR NUMBER as it is intended. I don’t fucking pretend to be so stupid as to think that perforated line between the QUARTER HOUR NUMBER is a minute-by-minute breakdown.

Only you do that.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Ah the drama in this thread never fails to entertain.


----------



## El Hammerstone

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Ah the drama in this thread never fails to entertain.


Really? It's just the same schtick repeated ad nauseum every week, with neither side budging an inch. The Orange Cassidy of threads if you will.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

bdon said:


> No, I have always went by the QUARTER HOUR NUMBER as it is intended. I don’t fucking pretend to be so stupid as to think that perforated line between the QUARTER HOUR NUMBER is a minute-by-minute breakdown.
> 
> Only you do that.


*Yet you still manage to be wrong every week. Impressive. Since as per usual all you can do is flame because you have no coherent argument, we're done here. *


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

El Hammerstone said:


> Really? It's just the same schtick repeated ad nauseum every week, with neither side budging an inch. The Orange Cassidy of threads if you will.


The thing that gets me is more that all these people feel they have to pretend to care about ratings when let's be really, none of us actually do. 

The sooner everyone in here just admits they don't care about ratings the better it'll be. The just say they do because they think they have to care.


----------



## El Hammerstone

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> The thing that gets me is more that all these people feel they have to pretend to care about ratings when let's be really, none of us actually do.
> 
> The sooner everyone in here just admits they don't care about ratings the better it'll be. The just say they do because they think they have to care.


True. I know one of the reasons I keep out of this thread these days is because I know I can't match the emotional level of everyone else, and it would be exhausting to try.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

El Hammerstone said:


> True. I know one of the reasons I keep out of this thread these days is because I know I can't match the emotional level of everyone else, and it would be exhausting to try.


It's so stupid how people pretend to be emotionally invested in ratings of all things, or maybe I'm just giving these guys the benefit of the doubt too much and they're actually that insane. 

It's not hard to just look at it and go "Yeah that looks pretty good/pretty shit." And just call it at that. It literally doesn't need to go further. Yet you'll have people making excuses for them or celebrating them based on the result as if they achieved it themselves.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

You lads gonna go on for much longer discussing how you‘re above all this or nah?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> You lads gonna go on for much longer discussing how you‘re above all this or nah?


*Hello, I have entered the ratings thread to tell you how much I don't care about ratings.*


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *Yet you still manage to be wrong every week. Impressive. Since as per usual all you can do is flame because you have no coherent argument, we're done here. *





The Legit DMD said:


> *Yet you still manage to be wrong every week. Impressive. Since as per usual all you can do is flame because you have no coherent argument, we're done here. *


Dude, YOU don’t understand how the Quarter Hour breakdowns work!


----------



## bdon

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> The thing that gets me is more that all these people feel they have to pretend to care about ratings when let's be really, none of us actually do.
> 
> The sooner everyone in here just admits they don't care about ratings the better it'll be. The just say they do because they think they have to care.


I always say I don’t care about the ratings. I watched WCW to the very end and stand by my belief that Austin, Raw, and the Attitude Era was god awful ProWrestling, despite the ratings saying differently. 

I do, however, enjoy an intelligent discussion, but for some reason, The Legit still doesn’t know how to read the Quarter Hour breakdowns.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

bdon said:


> I always say I don’t care about the ratings. I watched WCW to the very end and stand by my belief that Austin, Raw, and the Attitude Era was god awful ProWrestling, despite the ratings saying differently.
> 
> I do, however, enjoy an intelligent discussion, but for some reason, The Legit still doesn’t know how to read the Quarter Hour breakdowns.


That's completely fair my dude, it's like how NXT 2.0 isn't doing great ratings, but it's probably my favourite wrestling show right now, because it focuses on the aspects of pro wrestling I love. When you're having fun that shit just doesn't cross your mind.


----------



## Not Lying

The Legit DMD said:


> *I'm always going to be on The Elite's ass as long as these shitty tag matches continue. This changes nothing, so get your jabs in while you can.*



This is true. We had the Elite in main event, main event usually increase viewers, this one main event marginally lost.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it will finish below dynamite
> 
> and the channel shouldn’t matter - that’s what we’ve been told countless times
> 
> ’the time and the channel and the blah blah blah’
> 
> if Baseball on Fs1 can beat Smackdown on Fox in the demo last friday - then smackdown has no excuse
> 
> Rerun Reigns better put up a helluva fight


No excuses! SmackDown either produces a show people will change the channel and pick it over the world series or they don't.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> This is true. We had the Elite in main event, main event usually increase viewers, this one main event marginally lost.


*Well, they at least didn't tank the ratings, so they have something to celebrate this week.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> No excuses! SmackDown either produces a show people will change the channel and pick it over the world series or they don't.


no excuses! Rap said it, it shall be so!


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> no excuses! Rap said it, it shall be so!


Facts if they produce undeniable shit, folk will watch regardless of channel and other TV events.


----------



## Honey Bucket

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> It's so stupid how people pretend to be emotionally invested in ratings of all things, or maybe I'm just giving these guys the benefit of the doubt too much and they're actually that insane.
> 
> It's not hard to just look at it and go "Yeah that looks pretty good/pretty shit." And just call it at that. It literally doesn't need to go further. Yet you'll have people making excuses for them or celebrating them based on the result as if they achieved it themselves.


Fuck off back to the NXT ratings thread young man.


----------



## SeiyaKanie

Roman fears the bunny. he didn't show up tonight on fs1 smackdown 🤣


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Honey Bucket said:


> Fuck off back to the NXT ratings thread young man.


Classy.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *It's literally the same situation with Sammy on Dynamite and Britt on Rampage and you just exposed yourself with a blatant contradiction. Like I said, Britt GAINED viewers by the end of her match with Anna Jay, but you wanted to make excuses to discredit her because you're still mad about Elite segments flopping.*


Dude, the Elite's segment this past Wednesday on Dynamite ended up being one of the highest rated quarters on the show 😂 

I see that you're still conveniently ignoring how Cody Rhodes had a pretty good week here since his segment turned out to have the peak in overall viewership.



The Legit DMD said:


> *Yet you still manage to be wrong every week. Impressive. Since as per usual all you can do is flame because you have no coherent argument, we're done here. *


You're just dismissing his coherent argument because you are embarrassed that he proved you wrong (since that chart is NOT a minute-by-minute breakdown), and your huge ego can't even allow yourself to fathom that you made a mistake.


----------



## RoganJosh

Honey Bucket said:


> Fuck off back to the NXT ratings thread young man.


Not cool bro. I hope you were being sarcastic. 

Why do you have a gay sex act in your sig? You need to be banned.


----------



## shandcraig

Wolf Mark said:


> I remember being a TNA mark and being embarrassing as well. Hopefully I changed from my mark ways.


funny i has a huge tna fan since day 1 but i was exactly how i am with aew. I'm a fan and have been here since day 1 but have no problem criticising something that is shit. Plenty of stupid shit to talk about and plenty of good stuff.


----------



## Garty

Prized Fighter said:


> Fun fact:
> TNT: 89.5 million homes
> 
> FS1: 90 million homes according to their official website (FS1 | Fox Sports PressPass) - edit: that could be at their launch. The best estimate currently is that they are in between 79 million to 83 million homes.
> 
> Fox: 102.5 million homes


but, but, but... FS1 is on cable's third tier, nobody even has that channel, I don't know where to find it, etc.

Please edit your thread, you're ruining the running narrative.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

So…. @The Legit DMD @RapShepard @bdon @Garty

do we want to hypothesise why the fast nationals were not leaked this week?

What could possibly have happened for them not to leak? 

Is there a slight chance Rampage at 22:00 did better than Smackdown at 20:00 ?

fucking hell I would laugh my bum off


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> So…. @The Legit DMD @RapShepard @bdon @Garty
> 
> do we want to hypothesise why the fast nationals were not leaked this week?
> 
> What could possibly have happened for them not to leak?
> 
> Is there a slight chance Rampage at 22:00 did better than Smackdown at 20:00 ?
> 
> fucking hell I would laugh my bum off


Is there some set time the fast nationals have been leaking?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Is there some set time the fast nationals have been leaking?


Normally midday saturday - normally it would‘ve been out by now


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Normally midday saturday - normally it would‘ve been out by now


I mean it's 3 here so idk plenty of afternoon left. But who knows maybe Rampage got a W


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> I mean it's 3 here so idk plenty of afternoon left. But who knows maybe Rampage got a W


That would be unheard of

but i doubt it

that Brandon stats guy said 3 hrs ago anybody can order them from the stations at any time on a Saturday - so one would think it would’ve been ordered and leaked by now


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> So…. @The Legit DMD @RapShepard @bdon @Garty
> 
> do we want to hypothesise why the fast nationals were not leaked this week?
> 
> What could possibly have happened for them not to leak?
> 
> Is there a slight chance Rampage at 22:00 did better than Smackdown at 20:00 ?
> 
> fucking hell I would laugh my bum off


There is no way in hell Rampage beat SmackDown, even taking into account they they “won” that 30 minute head-to-head.

I’d love to be wrong, but it just isn’t happening.


----------



## 3venflow

Although it is pretty odd if WWE hasn't continued leaking the fast nationals to its media guys like Alfred Konuwa, Rampage won't beat FS1 Smackdown. Firstly, it's on later, secondly it's B show vs. A show, and thirdly WWE will always get at least 800,000 tuning due to their huge social media presence and being able to advertise it.

Perhaps Rampage beat the Smackdown encore or something. I'd say it'll get the usual 500,000 to 600,000 viewers and between 0.20 and 0.25 in the 18-49. Smackdown will get 800,000 to 900,000 and between 0.25 and 0.35 in the 18-49.

If AEW can get Rampage moved to 8pm on an uncontested day, it could do a weekly 700,000 to 800,000 I think with its current format.


----------



## Prosper

I doubt AEW pulls off the win in the demo two weeks in a row, last week was cool but I don’t see it being a common occurrence whenever SD is on FS1. Both shows are in bad spots but SD still has the advantage.


----------



## rbl85

Is Rampage also live on the west coast now ?


----------



## Joe Gill

TK is blowing it right now with this horrible time slot for rampage....either tell tnt to give them a better timeslot for rampage...or focus entirely on making dynamite as good as possible and give the scraps to rampage. Too many great matches wasted when only half the audience is watching. Id much rather have stacked Dynamites and let the hardcore fans watch rampage like they watch dark and elevation.


----------



## wwetna1

Prosper said:


> I doubt AEW pulls off the win in the demo two weeks in a row, last week was cool but I don’t see it being a common occurrence whenever SD is on FS1. Both shows are in bad spots but SD still has the advantage.


I wouldn’t be shocked to see them win the demo. I would think mlb dominates that demo but maybe that’s just the baseball fan in me


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

What even is the fast nationals? Is that just the cool name you guys use for overnight numbers now? Why not just call them that like we always have?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> What even is the fast nationals? Is that just the cool name you guys use for overnight numbers now? Why not just call them that like we always have?


that is what they call it on twitter - its a specific overnight number you can request early over the weekend

you supposedly don’t even care about ratings - so why do you care what its called?


----------



## Wolf Mark

shandcraig said:


> funny i has a huge tna fan since day 1 but i was exactly how i am with aew. I'm a fan and have been here since day 1 but have no problem criticising something that is shit. Plenty of stupid shit to talk about and plenty of good stuff.


I knew back then TNA had a lot of flaws but I was rather protective of the company when others criticized them, esp. dirt sheets. But I realise now that my behaviors were rather cultist just like the AEW fans on internet forums nowadays.


----------



## shandcraig

Wolf Mark said:


> I knew back then TNA had a lot of flaws but I was rather protective of the company when others criticized them, esp. dirt sheets. But I realise now that my behaviors were rather cultist just like the AEW fans on internet forums nowadays.



the weird thing is all of us that were here the first 2 years i didnt notice a lot of this over protective type with aew. Only until recently since they have gone back on the road and re hired all those wwe guys. Feel like when you start chatting about something from day 1 it makes it easier for everyone to be more open minded about it as its naturally un folding and changing.


----------



## Wolf Mark

shandcraig said:


> the weird thing is all of us that were here the first 2 years i didnt notice a lot of this over protective type with aew. Only until recently since they have gone back on the road and re hired all those wwe guys. Feel like when you start chatting about something from day 1 it makes it easier for everyone to be more open minded about it as its naturally un folding and changing.


I think there was a cultist attitude from day one in AEW. Hell just the way in the first few Dynamites while the general public didn't know who Orange Cassidy was, the AEW crowds were reacting to him like he was the second coming. But it was the same for NXT as well. Bear in mind I'm not talking particularly about the internet but more overall mindset. I think everytime a company tries to cultivate a "us against them" mentality it's bound to happen.


----------



## zorori

Some interesting non-US ratings info. IDK if this has been posted here before, but AEW is regularly doing 50% more to double WWEs TV numbers in the UK. Despite being available on Fite.tv, shown after 11pm on a moving time slot, on a two day delay, on a garbage channel (basically 90% of the shows are re-runs). Whereas WWE is on a decent channel (BT Sport, so any football fans will have this), is shown live and has multiple replays, etc.



> In the UK, WWE currently broadcasts on BT Sports – having moved there after spending decades with Sky Sports. Raw, SmackDown and NXT usually air live (that is, the same time as in the US) on BT Sports 1, with replays and edited highlights scattered around BT’s three sports channels throughout the rest of the week. NXT UK was added to the schedule on Fridays, while other specials air periodically – gone are the days of the weekly Afterburn, Bottom Line and Experience shows!
> 
> Meanwhile, AEW Dynamite airs on ITV4 in the UK – albeit on a two day delay, and in a really inconsistent timeslot. Dark is only available via YouTube, while pay-per-views no longer air in the UK since ITV Box Office shut down in January 2020.


They don't have all the data, so a select few recent weeks. I stripped out some of the "no data/TBC" lines to keep this short. Note NXT often does so badly there is no ratings data available 



> October 25, 2021 Update
> Raw live on October 11 – 108,600
> NXT live on October 12 – did not chart
> SmackDown live on October 15 – 85,700
> 
> NXT UK from October 14 (aired October 15 on BT Sport) – 17,200
> 
> _no AEW Dynamite aired in the UK week of October 11-17 – the October 16 episode didn’t air in the UK until October 19_
> 
> AEW Dynamite from October 06 (aired October 08) – 162,000 (up 11,000 on the prior week’s show) *[Dynamite started at 11.15pm]*
> 
> AEW Dynamite from September 29 (aired October 01) – 151,000 (up 49,000 on the prior week’s show) *[Dynamite started at 11.10pm]*
> 
> AEW Dynamite from September 22 (aired September 24) – 102,000 (up 1,000 on the prior week’s show)* [Dynamite started at 11.45pm]*
> 
> September 27, 2021 Update
> Raw live on September 14 – *75,700*
> NXT live on September 15 – did not chart
> SmackDown live on September 17 – *72,700*
> 
> AEW Dynamite from September 15 (aired September 17) – *101,000 *(down 6,000 on the prior week’s show) *[Dynamite started at midnight]*











UK TV Ratings


In the UK, WWE currently broadcasts on BT Sport – having moved there after spending decades with Sky Sports. Raw, SmackDown and NXT usually air live (that is, the same time as in the US) on B…




backbodydrop.com


----------



## zkorejo

Prized Fighter said:


> Fun fact:
> TNT: 89.5 million homes
> 
> FS1: 90 million homes according to their official website (FS1 | Fox Sports PressPass) - edit: that could be at their launch. The best estimate currently is that they are in between 79 million to 83 million homes.
> 
> Fox: 102.5 million homes


Wow! 

Half the arguments in this thread are based on uneducated opinions. 

Which is why this is the last thread I check up on when I have absolutely nothing else to do and feel like reading wrestling stuff.


----------



## bdon

zkorejo said:


> Wow!
> 
> Half the arguments in this thread are based on uneducated opinions.
> 
> Which is why this is the last thread I check up on when I have absolutely nothing else to do and feel like reading wrestling stuff.


FS1 might be in that many homes, but I can assure you, it is not apples and organges. Just like a move to TBS is a step back from TNT. Certain channels simply have more prestige.


----------



## zkorejo

bdon said:


> FS1 might be in that many homes, but I can assure you, it is not apples and organges. Just like a move to TBS is a step back from TNT. Certain channels simply have more prestige.


I see. But people outright said it's not available in as many homes as TNT. Which isn't true at all if we go by their own website numbers.


----------



## bdon

zkorejo said:


> I see. But people outright said it's not available in as many homes as TNT. Which isn't true at all if we go by their own website numbers.


I’d have believed it wasn’t in as many homes. That channel is shit, but to parrot what they say about Dynamite, “Put out a product worthy, and the fans will find it.”

Because I can assure you, every red-blooded American knows how to find FS1 on Saturday when their college football team of choice isn’t being aired on the local channels.


----------



## zkorejo

bdon said:


> I’d have believed it wasn’t in as many homes. That channel is shit, but to parrot what they say about Dynamite, “Put out a product worthy, and the fans will find it.”
> 
> Because I can assure you, every red-blooded American knows how to find FS1 on Saturday when their college football team of choice isn’t being aired on the local channels.


Exactly. And I don't remember the numbers but im pretty sure if we do tye percentages, more aew fans follow Dynamite moving nights than they do for smackdown moving channels.


----------



## 3venflow

*UK TV Ratings (w/e 24 October 2021)*

AEW Dynamite (Tuesday 10pm, ITV4) - 162,034
WWE RAW Live (BT Sport 1) - 81,300
WWE SmackDown Live (BT Sport 1) - 53,100

* RAW & Smackdown are live on pay TV, AEW is aired several days later on a national channel but their fourth channel (those who want to watch it live buy a sub on FITE TV)


----------



## ProjectGargano

3venflow said:


> *UK TV Ratings (w/e 24 October 2021)*
> 
> AEW Dynamite (Tuesday 10pm, ITV4) - 162,034
> WWE RAW Live (BT Sport 1) - 81,300
> WWE SmackDown Live (BT Sport 1) - 53,100
> 
> * RAW & Smackdown are live on pay TV, AEW is aired several days later on a national channel but their fourth channel (those who want to watch it live buy a sub on FITE TV)


AEW needs to do an UK mini-tour! Maybe an episode of Dynamite, Rampage and a TNT special all on the same week.


----------



## Mister Sinister

3venflow said:


> Obviously the return to Wednesday this week had a slightly lower viewership than the usual 1m-plus but there were several factors in that. One of them is returning to the timeslot after a break. Last time that happened, ratings went from 0.21 / 649k (Saturday night) to 0.35 / 883k. Two weeks later they were at a million.
> 
> Their demo this week (and again, THAT IS MORE IMPORTANT than having 50,000 or 100,000 less people watching overall) was better than two of the shows in the weeks prior to the Saturday night switch, including the final Wednesday edition before the shift.
> 
> If anything, Rampage is the show that _might_ need looking at if the ratings drop much further, but it's a difficult timeslot and unless you can find a CM Punk level star to bring back every week, you're not going to do huge ratings there.
> 
> Dynamite is doing good ratings and right up there at the top of the cable charts. Before the recent live sports surge, they were regularly number one, but it's kinda hard to top NBA.


Excuses. They've been on decline and continue to decline. They should have continued to gain viewers each week, but the viewers have dwindled by the hundreds of thousands because AEW are focused on pushing friends or the EVPs instead of pushing money makers and making cards with story. If they had delivered and continued to deliver each week, we would be talking about how they inched up to 1.4 million viewers last week and we've all got chills from the atmosphere of Nitro. The demo is bullshit. Absolute bullshit. If they could double their audience, they could double their damn demo. The demos they need to be worried about are the ones they aren't getting-- women, kids, black Americans, families, political conservatives. You look at their live audience and you see one woman per 400 single white dudes. You go to the toy section at Walmart and there are two pegs with AEW figures and they are all Darby Allin.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1455261976716877824

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

Both shows did better than I expected on Friday. Rampage's best viewership and joint-best demo since September 24th.


----------



## 3venflow

Smackdown and Rampage finished 3rd and 4th on cable. No idea what the Smackdown encore did yet.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1455263359872405508

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RainmakerV2

SD hitting 1 mil against the world series on a c tier network, jeeeeesh


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

RainmakerV2 said:


> SD hitting 1 mil against the world series on a c tier network, jeeeeesh


Yeah and it was on FS1


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1455263372279042051

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1455261976716877824
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


not bad


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

No Roman and SD FS1 gets over a million LOL. Can't deny he's a needle mover (in the wrong direction, but good on him).

Anyway, Rampage was a decent number. They're starting to head back up. This week though had a pretty important match with Full Gear and future World Title implications in Bryan/Eddie, so no surprise. That's with the SD encore as well... which I don't know how much that would bleed into Rampage viewers anyway, but still.


----------



## 3venflow

#BadNewsSanta said:


> That's with the SD encore as well... which I don't know how much that would bleed into Rampage viewers anyway, but still.


That aired on FS1 opposite Dynamite? If so, it did not make the cable top 150 so did below 0.03 which #150 did.


----------



## RapShepard

* Tracking Ratings With Rap Shepard*

Let's see the Rampage numbers without Punk

Rampage #1- 740k .31 demo

Dynamite 8/18- 975k .35 demo

Rampage #2 with Punk- 1.129 million .53 demo

Dynamite 8/25 with Punk- 1.172 million .48 demo

Rampage #3 no Punk- 722k .34 demo

Dynamite 9/1 - 1.047 .37 demo

Rampage #4 with Punk- 696k .30 demo

Dynamite 9/8 with Punk, Bryan, and Cole- 1.31 million .53 demo

Rampage #5 No Punk, Bryan, or Cole- 670k .27 demo

Dynamite 9/15 with Punk, Cole, and Bryan- 1.175 million .44 demo

Rampage #6 no Punk, Cole, or Bryan - 642k .28 demo

Dynamite 9/22 Bryan vs Omega- 1.273 million .48 demo

Rampage #7 Punk vs Hobbs- 640k .28 demo

Dynamite 9/30 with Punk, Bryan, and Cole- 1.152 million .45 demo

Rampage #8 Bryan vs Nick Jackson- 622k .25 demo 

Dynamite 10/6 The Super Elite vs Bryan's ragtag group of merry men- 1.05 million .37 demo 

Rampage 9- 502k .17 demo 

Rampage 10 Bryan vs Sydal- 578k .24 demo beat SmackDown head to head

Dynamite 10/16- 727k .28 demo beat SmackDown in demo outright

Rampage 11- 533k .22 demo

Dynamite 10/23- 575k .22 demo

Dynamite 10/27- 941k .4 demo

Rampage 12- 623k .25 demo


----------



## Dr. Middy

If they could get like 650-700K with Rampage and make that into an average, I'd be happy with that.


----------



## 3venflow

I'm glad Rampage went up as it was an awesome show. Oddly enough, Rampage ratings have gone up from previous weeks when opposed by Smackdown.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> So…. @The Legit DMD @RapShepard @bdon @Garty
> 
> do we want to hypothesise why the fast nationals were not leaked this week?
> 
> What could possibly have happened for them not to leak?
> 
> Is there a slight chance Rampage at 22:00 did better than Smackdown at 20:00 ?
> 
> fucking hell I would laugh my bum off


*The only laughing will be on my end, brother 😆*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1455261976716877824


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *The only laughing will be on my end, brother 😆*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1455261976716877824


yeah, but you see - if you take 22:00 vs 20:00 you have the extrapolate a minus to the power of 55%, and therefore you can safely say that ipso facto Rampage won and ergo Rerun Reigns sucks donkey balls

andthatisallihavetosayaboutthat


----------



## DammitChrist

#BadNewsSanta said:


> No Roman and SD FS1 gets over a million LOL. Can't deny he's a needle mover (in the wrong direction, but good on him).
> 
> Anyway, Rampage was a decent number. They're starting to head back up. This week though had a pretty important match with Full Gear and future World Title implications in Bryan/Eddie, so no surprise. That's with the SD encore as well... which I don't know how much that would bleed into Rampage viewers anyway, but still.


Yea, Smackdown was much more enjoyable this week without seeing the current Universal Champion.

I could've done without Pat McAfee going overboard on commentary during the Trick or Street Fight tag where he tried way too hard to be funny


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1455274690952433671

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yeah, but you see - if you take 22:00 vs 20:00 you have the extrapolate a minus to the power of 55%, and therefore you can safely say that ipso facto Rampage won and ergo Rerun Reigns sucks donkey balls
> 
> andthatisallihavetosayaboutthat


----------



## fabi1982

The Legit DMD said:


> *The only laughing will be on my end, brother 😆*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1455261976716877824


This basically showed what I said two weeks ago. TK beat the drums and everyone who wants to stick it to WWE came running. Now you see what happens when he doesnt give a fuck, his fans do the same…


----------



## DaSlacker

Very impressive showing for SmackDown, which I was thought was autopilot dull. 

Impressive number for Rampage, which I thought was a solid hour of wrestling. 


Does the UK number for ITV 4 AEW Dynamite include the ITV Hub views? Either way, it's aired every Monday at 11pm on the second most popular channel in the UK. Tony Khan definitely needs to get a couple of tours arranged for next year.


----------



## thorwold

That's a hell of a bounce back number from Rampage. Wow. It was a great show, probably the best one they've had, so I'm happy for them.

And I'm pretty sure that's also Smackdown's best ever number on FS1? What the hell?  and against the World Series too. Did everyone stay in Halloween weekend, or what?


----------



## omaroo

Smackdown was really good this week not surprised. Best WWE show by a fucking country mile.

Good for rampage. Staying in the 600k-700k bracket every week will be tough though especially at the 10-11pm slot.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*@RapShepard 1 mil against the world series on a 3rd rate channel. Like we always say: no excuses*


----------



## 3venflow

It was a good rating for both companies. It's hard to expect much more for Rampage in that timeslot unless they pull something special out. The CM Punk debut was an anomaly and not a good reference point. It'd be like comparing a regular NFL game to the Superbowl in AEW terms.

Rampage has had two of the better TV matches on U.S. soil this year in the past two weeks, and if you want to cheat and include a pre-show, three in the past three weeks (Suzuki vs. Danielson, PAC vs. Andrade, Danielson vs. Kingston).


----------



## Geeee

It's wild how low Friday ratings are compared to the Wednesday ones. Are people like actually out doing things?


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## Prized Fighter

The past few weeks the first quarter started high and then fell off as the show went on. So either the Bryan/Kingston match started somewhere high between 750k or possibly 800k or the Britt/Abadon match held viewer really well.


----------



## DammitChrist

omaroo said:


> Smackdown was really good this week not surprised.* Best WWE show by a fucking country mile.*
> 
> Good for rampage. Staying in the 600k-700k bracket every week will be tough though especially at the 10-11pm slot.


Eh, I think NXT UK has a better claim for that accolade quality-wise atm .

The major issue for that show is how there aren't many people on here who watch it.


----------



## DaSlacker

DammitChrist said:


> Eh, I think NXT UK has a better claim for that accolade quality-wise atm .
> 
> The major issue for that show is how there aren't many people on here who watch it.


The problem with any WWE show, for me anyway, is that they're WWE. The endgame for most wrestlers is Raw and SmackDown... Invisible cameras, dated slapstick, slow and formulaic matches, sanitized violence, little logic to booking decisions, supernatural stuff, bizarre attitude changes, overly scripted promos. Basically Vince McMahon's fingerprints. 

It's like starting as an acclaimed visual artist and being promoted to teach basic drawing to 4 year olds.


----------



## Prosper

Looks like both shows did great this week, good to see.


----------



## wwetna1

thorwold said:


> That's a hell of a bounce back number from Rampage. Wow. It was a great show, probably the best one they've had, so I'm happy for them.
> 
> And I'm pretty sure that's also Smackdown's best ever number on FS1? What the hell?  and against the World Series too. Did everyone stay in Halloween weekend, or what?


I would guess the Dodgers not being the playoff game helps a bunch. I mean no slight to Atlanta and Houston but they aren’t a NY, LA, Chicago team that takes away audiences from people. 

The Friday night nba game also wasn’t a big market .. Mavericks vs Nuggets was the second half of the double header. It’s not going against Lebron or Steph Curry on tv. 

Both shows were good and did their jobs. Rampage was a damn good show for its hour and a nice one. SD introduced Charlotte to team blue where she hopefully won’t work a match every week, and New Day/Usos delivered as always


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Streets are saying Sasha's outfit is responsible for that huge rating:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1455263612277334024*


----------



## omaroo

DammitChrist said:


> Eh, I think NXT UK has a better claim for that accolade quality-wise atm .
> 
> The major issue for that show is how there aren't many people on here who watch it.


Maybe mate.

But I stopped watching NXT UK along time ago. Really really boring show imo.

Mainstream shows Smackdown is only WWE worth paying attention to.


----------



## holy

#BadNewsSanta said:


> *No Roman and SD FS1 gets over a million LOL. Can't deny he's a needle mover (in the wrong direction, but good on him).*
> 
> Anyway, Rampage was a decent number. They're starting to head back up. This week though had a pretty important match with Full Gear and future World Title implications in Bryan/Eddie, so no surprise. That's with the SD encore as well... which I don't know how much that would bleed into Rampage viewers anyway, but still.


I think the 1 million viewers came on FS1 cause people were interested in seeing what happens this week with Lesnar/Reigns after that big segment last week. Nothing really happened between them this week, but people probably tuned in to see if something would happen.


----------



## bdon

Simping ain’t easy.


----------



## yeahright2

Ratings are in for Rampage, so here´s the shameless plug for the ratings game 
AEW Ratings prediction game
@Prized Fighter took the win.

They did good, but I can´t say it was a memorable episode for me.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Geeee said:


> It's wild how low Friday ratings are compared to the Wednesday ones. Are people like actually out doing things?


Yes, and Rampage is hurt by being a taped show. Dave talked about how Raw is usually not hurt much when they do taped shows, but Rampage is. 

And I think the reason for that, is Rampage is the only show usually taped of the 4 primary shows (Raw, Smackdown, Dynamite), so it'll always be less important.


----------



## Geeee

Randy Lahey said:


> Yes, and Rampage is hurt by being a taped show. Dave talked about how Raw is usually not hurt much when they do taped shows, but Rampage is.
> 
> And I think the reason for that, is Rampage is the only show usually taped of the 4 primary shows (Raw, Smackdown, Dynamite), so it'll always be less important.


Yet, at the same time, Rampage is the only show I can see in the top 50 for Turner on Friday at a quick glance.


----------



## DaSlacker

Two years ago an episode of Dynamite was in the 600,000 - 700,000 range. Now WarnerMedia has that same show hitting similar ratings to its highest back then and a new show doing 600,000 in its own right in a tough slot. 

In an era of sagging ratings you can't tell me that's not a win for both the company and the network.


----------



## Geeee

The Legit DMD said:


> *Streets are saying Sasha's outfit is responsible for that huge rating:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1455263612277334024*


it's kind of wild that a picture of two fully clothed women is marked as potentially sensitive, when the men wrestle in a tiny piece of cloth that barely covers their junk.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Geeee said:


> it's kind of wild that a picture of two fully clothed women is marked as potentially sensitive, when the men wrestle in a tiny piece of cloth that barely covers their junk.


*Sasha vs Shotzi is pretty much wrestling porn to their fanbases, so it's understandable.*


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DaSlacker said:


> Two years ago an episode of Dynamite was in the 600,000 - 700,000 range. Now WarnerMedia has that same show hitting similar ratings to its highest back then and a new show doing 600,000 in its own right in a tough slot.
> 
> In an era of sagging ratings you can't tell me that's not a win for both the company and the network.


Dynamite was up against NXT though.


----------



## bdon

The Legit DMD said:


> *Sasha vs Shotzi is pretty much wrestling porn to their fanbases, so it's understandable.*


So creepy


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> So creepy


You're in the same section that features some posters that are super into women that resemble underage women and the two women who look like women fighting it out is creepy?

Julia Hart and Riho if you want to see what I'm talking about.


----------



## Cydius

I was pretty sure this topic was about AEW TV Ratings ppv buys etc
Yet i see lot of wwe posts.

Maybe a WWE TV ratings should be made in the right section.
Oh wait...


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

holy said:


> I think the 1 million viewers came on FS1 cause people were interested in seeing what happens this week with Lesnar/Reigns after that big segment last week. Nothing really happened between them this week, but people probably tuned in to see if something would happen.


*How? Lesnar was indefinitely suspended and NOT advertised in any way. There's no reason for anyone to expect him to appear because that was understood to be his write off from TV. Rerun Reigns did his job in shutting down Saturday Dynamite with a 40 minute segment. Good on Bryan and Britt for giving Rampage a significant boost though.*


----------



## RapShepard

Cydius said:


> I was pretty sure this topic was about AEW TV Ratings ppv buys etc
> Yet i see lot of wwe posts.
> 
> Maybe a WWE TV ratings should be made in the right section.
> Oh wait...


WWE is the most over thing about AEW


----------



## Geeee

I read that Britt and Abadon's match did the best in the key demo, which is a little surprising since Abadon has been on TV like maybe 3 or 4 times


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Rerun Reigns *


You make my heart happy


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Geeee said:


> I read that Britt and Abadon's match did the best in the key demo, which is a little surprising since Abadon has been on TV like maybe 3 or 4 times


*You read correctly. Demo Goddess Britt with the strong recovery from last week:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1455560005390946305*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *You read correctly. Demo Goddess Britt with the strong recovery from last week:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1455560005390946305*


that is very good

baker is a draw, no denying


----------



## Geeee

To me, it shows that they should start booking Rampage like a show that people are going to watch all the way through. I mean it's only an hour long. No need to front load the show and then put an AEW Dark match in the main event


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Geeee said:


> To me, it shows that they should start booking Rampage like a show that people are going to watch all the way through. I mean it's only an hour long. No need to front load the show and then put an AEW Dark match in the main event


the 3 different styles of matches really seemed to have made people interested


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> You're in the same section that features some posters that are super into women that resemble underage women and the two women who look like women fighting it out is creepy?
> 
> Julia Hart and Riho if you want to see what I'm talking about.


You know that simping for any female celebrity is creepy, right? Not everything has to be mutually exclusive to AEW and WWE. You’re intelligent, so I like to think you understand this…

Whether it is Julia Hart and Riho or admitting to Shotzi/Sasha being like porn - it’s all very fucking creepy and not exactly what one should be expecting to watch in “a serious, badass” wrestling show.


----------



## PavelGaborik

The Legit DMD said:


> *How? Lesnar was indefinitely suspended and NOT advertised in any way. There's no reason for anyone to expect him to appear because that was understood to be his write off from TV. Rerun Reigns did his job in shutting down Saturday Dynamite with a 40 minute segment. Good on Bryan and Britt for giving Rampage a significant boost though.*


Didn't Smackdown literally just do nearly 200k viewers better on FS1 WITHOUT Reigns last week? 

The narrative that this guy is some sort of major draw needs to die already, ratings have taken a major dip ever since he was pushed as a main event talent.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

PavelGaborik said:


> Didn't Smackdown literally just do nearly 200k viewers better on FS1 WITHOUT Reigns last week?
> 
> The narrative that this guy is some sort of major draw needs to die already, ratings have taken a major dip ever since he was pushed as a main event talent.


*Yet a replay of a ridiculously long Roman segment destroyed Dynamite. What does that say about the "stars" over here?*


----------



## bdon

Simping ain’t easy…


----------



## PavelGaborik

The Legit DMD said:


> *Yet a replay of a ridiculously long Roman segment destroyed Dynamite. What does that say about the "stars" over here?*


Destroyed? Both shows did a pitiful 500k viewers on a Saturday, outside of their regular slots.

Horrible performance from AEW, not shocking considering they've struggled multiple times on Dynamite out of their slot in the past as well.

Roman lost in the demographic to the fucking Bunny, and Smackdown literally just did SIGNIFICANTLY better with him off the show on FS1.

Facts >>>> your feelings.


----------



## PavelGaborik

Chip Chipperson said:


> You're in the same section that features some posters that are super into women that resemble underage women and the two women who look like women fighting it out is creepy?
> 
> Julia Hart and Riho if you want to see what I'm talking about.


Not particularly sure Sasha is the best example of somebody who's built like a grown woman, she's literally built like a 15 year old girl who's involved in sports. 

I would second that the "wrestling porn" analogy does indeed make both fanbases sound like creepy losers.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

PavelGaborik said:


> Destroyed? Both shows did a pitiful 500k viewers on a Saturday, outside of their regular slots.
> 
> Horrible performance from AEW, not shocking considering they've struggled multiple times on Dynamite out of their slot in the past as well.
> 
> Roman lost in the demographic to the fucking Bunny, and Smackdown literally just did SIGNIFICANTLY better with him off the show on FS1.
> 
> Facts >>>> your feelings.


*Except you're wrong again, because they TIED in the demo and got annihilated in total viewers on a 3rd rate channel. A brand new live episode of Dynamite losing to a RERUN of Smackdown on Fox that largely featured Roman talking trash is inexcusably embarrassing. That's just a taste of what would happen if Tony Khan truly went head to head with the A show.*


----------



## PavelGaborik

The Legit DMD said:


> *Except you're wrong again, because they TIED in the demo and got annihilated in total viewers on a 3rd rate channel. A brand new live episode of Dynamite losing to a RERUN of Smackdown on Fox that largely featured Roman talking trash is inexcusably embarrassing. That's just a taste of what would happen if Tony Khan truly went head to head with the A show.*


Having your biggest star tie in a head to head demo against a third rate AEW female wrestler, is a rather poor look for your A show, no matter how you attempt to spin it.

There were a handful of matches on the show, not sure why you're incoherently rambling about Roman running the show on his own, the main point I'm making here is the brand draws ratings, and may very well do even better without Roman being forced the audiences throat on a weekly basis.

Statistics don't lie, an additional 200k people decided to tune into Smackdown on FS1 without Reigns being featured, there's zero indication Roman has positively influenced ratings since his Main Event push began, there's certainly plenty of evidence to the contrary, given that ratings have continued to sink over the long term. 

You can deflect with "Smackdown re-run beat a live Dynamite!" But the reality is AEW wasn't beating many shows in total viewership that night considering they did an abysmal 500k viewers that Saturday night.

The fact of the matter is there was a Significantly wider spread between Rampage and Smackdown viewership on FS1 when your hero was off Television.

Roman will do great numbers when he's feuding with the biggest draw in the company, Smackdown will likely head back under 2 million viewers before the year ends now with Brock on another hiatus.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

PavelGaborik said:


> Having your biggest star tie in a head to head demo against a third rate AEW female wrestler, is a rather poor look for your A show, no matter how you attempt to spin it.
> 
> There were a handful of matches on the show, not sure why you're incoherently rambling about Roman running the show on his own, the main point I'm making here is the brand draws ratings, and may very well do even better without Roman being forced the audiences throat on a weekly basis.
> 
> Statistics don't lie, an additional 200k people decided to tune into Smackdown on FS1 without Reigns being featured, there's zero indication Roman has positively influenced ratings since his Main Event push began, there's certainly plenty of evidence to the contrary, given that ratings have continued to sink over the long term.
> 
> You can deflect with "Smackdown re-run beat a live Dynamite!" But the reality is AEW wasn't beating many shows in total viewership that night considering they did an abysmal 500k viewers that Saturday night.
> 
> The fact of the matter is there was a Significantly wider spread between Rampage and Smackdown viewership on FS1 when your hero was off Television.
> 
> Roman will do great numbers when he's feuding with the biggest draw in the company, Smackdown will likely head back under 2 million viewers before the year ends now with Brock on another hiatus.


*You're ignoring the massive detail that Smackdown's replay directly ate into AEW's usual 700-800k Saturday viewership. Rerun Reigns did his job. As for the biggest draw of Smackdown, I have ALWAYS said that's Sasha Banks, and she continued to prove me right with 1 million viewers on FS1.*


----------



## PavelGaborik

The Legit DMD said:


> *You're ignoring the massive detail that Smackdown's replay directly ate into AEW's usual 700-800k Saturday viewership. Rerun Reigns did his job. As for the biggest draw of Smackdown, I have ALWAYS said that's Sasha Banks, and she continued to prove me right with 1 million viewers on FS1.*


They were down about 150k viewers, which is pretty significant, but not shocking as we've seen countless times when AEW is moved, they lose a massive amount of viewers, even falling as low as into the the 400k's in June, without ANY competition albeit in a worse time slot.

As I've covered to no response over numerous replies now, Rerun Reigns did his job better from home, as Smackdown most certainly excelled, and widened the gap between it and Rampage without his presence. Unless you've got some information to the contrary I'm going to go ahead and stick to my conclusion that the that the Tribal TV channel changer had minimal impact on the rerun ratings that week, and I'll most definitely stick to my conclusion that him not being featured last week clearly did in fact help ratings last Friday.

As far as Sasha goes, well I don't know. Becky is a bigger draw but she's gone to RAW now, Smackdown looks pretty bare at the moment after the Draft. Obviously I'm going to assume you aren't including part timers like Cena and Lesnar who are significantly bigger draws than any full time active roster member by a massive degree.


----------



## Whoanma

Rerun Reigns?


----------



## holy

The Legit DMD said:


> *How? Lesnar was indefinitely suspended and NOT advertised in any way. There's no reason for anyone to expect him to appear because that was understood to be his write off from TV. Rerun Reigns did his job in shutting down Saturday Dynamite with a 40 minute segment. Good on Bryan and Britt for giving Rampage a significant boost though.*


I mean, they did follow it up a little with Adam Pierce announcing that Lesnar is being fined. 

If nothing else, fans may have tuned in to see how Heyman and Reigns would react. Heyman did react, but the Reigns no-show was a disappointment.


----------



## RapShepard

The salt in Reigns bring a bigger draw than anybody AEW can put out.


----------



## RoganJosh

RapShepard said:


> The salt in Reigns bring a bigger draw than anybody AEW can put out.


You're a bit bipolar aren't you old chap?


----------



## PavelGaborik

RapShepard said:


> The salt in Reigns bring a bigger draw than anybody AEW can put out.


Where's the salt in anything I stated? Reigns is a heavily pushed guy who the ratings have declined underneath.

I understand the majority of the 2 million viewers left love Roman, but the guy has pushed quite a few people away and generally hasn't been much of a needle mover ratings wise statistically speaking, in fact over the long term as I stated, he's drawn more viewers away. 

@ me next time brah


----------



## RapShepard

PavelGaborik said:


> Where's the salt in anything I stated? Reigns is a heavily pushed guy who the ratings have declined underneath.
> 
> I understand the majority of the 2 million viewers left love Roman, but the guy has pushed quite a few people away and generally hasn't been much of a needle mover ratings wise statistically speaking, in fact over the long term as I stated, he's drawn more viewers away.
> 
> @ me next time brah


Nah it's salt, it's the same weird narrative about literally everybody in wrestling. Let places like here tell it Cena, Batista, Orton, Edge, Bryan, Punk, Sheamus, Del Rio, Reigns, Ambrose, Rollins, Owens, Wyatt, Strowman, Lesnar, Rousey, Styles, Charlotte, Becky, Bayley, Sasha, Drew, Lashley, Big E, and Kofi all are hated ratings killers


----------



## PavelGaborik

RapShepard said:


> Nah it's salt, it's the same weird narrative about literally everybody in wrestling. Let places like here tell it Cena, Batista, Orton, Edge, Bryan, Punk, Sheamus, Del Rio, Reigns, Ambrose, Rollins, Owens, Wyatt, Strowman, Lesnar, Rousey, Styles, Charlotte, Becky, Bayley, Sasha, Drew, Lashley, Big E, and Kofi all are hated ratings killers


Cena, Lesnar are most definitely guys that garner large ratings, albeit they're part timers. 

The vast majority of the others you mentioned have not really been given an outstanding push to judge outside of Charlotte and Becky in my opinion. 

It's no secret I think Roman is a guy who makes people turn the channel, he's one of the main reasons I don't tune into the WWE anymore, and that's something none of the other faces of the company ever managed to do for me. 

I'm sorry if you find what I'm saying is offensive, but I'm simply being honest, and judging by the numbers I'm far from the only one who's been turned off by Roman.


----------



## RapShepard

PavelGaborik said:


> Cena, Lesnar are most definitely guys that garner large ratings, albeit they're part timers.
> 
> The vast majority of the others you mentioned have not really been given an outstanding push to judge outside of Charlotte and Becky in my opinion.
> 
> It's no secret I think Roman is a guy who makes people turn the channel, he's one of the main reasons I don't tune into the WWE anymore, and that's something none of the other faces of the company ever managed to do for me.
> 
> I'm sorry if you find what I'm saying is offensive, but I'm simply being honest, and judging by the numbers I'm far from the only one who's been turned off by Roman.


Yet even those 2 are called ratings killers. Numbers show he's a moderate draw as he helped rise numbers on his return. You don't like him fair, but he's one of the few decent draws in the business. Saying he's not a draw is as silly as not admitting The Elite are draws, just slightly smaller draws.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

PavelGaborik said:


> As far as Sasha goes, well I don't know. Becky is a bigger draw but she's gone to RAW now.


*No.


 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1455718260117327876

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1455630469144403969
Becky opened RAW with a title match and flopped. Sasha wore a cute outfit, put Shotzi over, and got the highest FS1 single segment rating ever while going against the world series. There's levels to this shit.*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

The Legit DMD said:


> *Sasha wore a cute outfit, put Shotzi over, and got the highest FS1 single segment rating ever while going against the world series. *


Can you post the breakdown for Smackdown last week?


----------



## PavelGaborik

RapShepard said:


> Yet even those 2 are called ratings killers. Numbers show he's a moderate draw as he helped rise numbers on his return. You don't like him fair, but he's one of the few decent draws in the business. Saying he's not a draw is as silly as not admitting The Elite are draws, just slightly smaller draws.


I don't call them ratings killers. I literally have stated that the ratings have plummeted since Roman's main event push begun, this isn't an opinion, this is a statistical fact. 

He had a massive triple threat main event match on a cross brand a mere month ago, a show that drew a measly 1.7 million viewers, a show that had a better rating a mere 14 days later without any major cross brand appearances to my knowledge. 

Smackdown statistically did better on FS1 without his presence. Don't mix me in with a crowd u don't belong with, I'm merely stating Reigns has proven to be the opposite of a draw as far as viewership goes statistically speaking.


----------



## RapShepard

PavelGaborik said:


> I don't call them ratings killers. I literally have stated that the ratings have plummeted since Roman's main event push begun, this isn't an opinion, this is a statistical fact.
> 
> He had a massive triple threat main event match on a cross brand a mere month ago, a show that drew a measly 1.7 million viewers, a show that had a better rating a mere 14 days later without any major cross brand appearances to my knowledge.
> 
> Smackdown statistically did better on FS1 without his presence. Don't mix me in with a crowd u don't belong with, I'm merely stating Reigns has proven to be the opposite of a draw as far as viewership goes statistically speaking.


September 13th Raw no Reigns- .42 demo 1.669 million viewers

September 20 Raw with announced Reigns- .49 demo 1.793 million viewers

September 27 no Reigns- .47 demo 1.709 million viewers

October 4th no Reigns, but The Draft, and Bianca vs Flair- .52 demo 1.857 million viewers


----------



## PavelGaborik

The Legit DMD said:


> *No.
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1455718260117327876
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1455630469144403969
> Becky opened RAW with a title match and flopped. Sasha wore a cute outfit, put Shotzi over, and got the highest FS1 single segment rating ever while going against the world series. There's levels to this shit.*


You've literally labelled Smackdown the A show on multiple occasions, one would expect the "A show" to have the superior ratings, especially considering the third hour of RAW which always shows regression. 

I have no idea what "The highest talent gain on RAW" even means.


Sasha's return drew a 2.0 this year, Becky's return to SmackDown drew 2.25 million viewers.

With some help from The Rock, Becky has peaked at 4.25 million viewers over the course of the last two years.


----------



## PavelGaborik

RapShepard said:


> September 13th Raw no Reigns- .42 demo 1.669 million viewers
> 
> September 20 Raw with announced Reigns- .49 demo 1.793 million viewers
> 
> September 27 no Reigns- .47 demo 1.709 million viewers
> 
> October 4th no Reigns, but The Draft, and Bianca vs Flair- .52 demo 1.857 million viewers


That...that isn't impressive. Do you genuinely believe I'm incapable of looking of RAWs viewership history, as if I wouldn't be curious as to why you conveniently used a four week sample size to fit your narrative?

Raw ratings dating back to two months prior to Romans double championship triple threat main event as well as a month after :

2021/10/04
WWE RAW #1480
-1,857,000
2021/09/27
WWE RAW #1479
-1,709,000
2021/09/20
WWE RAW #1478
-1,793,000
2021/09/13
WWE RAW #1477
-1,670,000
2021/09/06
WWE RAW #1476
-1,849,000
2021/08/30
WWE RAW #1475
-1,907,000
2021/08/23
WWE RAW #1474
-2,067,000
2021/08/16
WWE RAW #1473
-1,857,000
2021/08/09
WWE RAW #1472
-1,790,000
2021/08/02
WWE RAW #1471
-1,821,000
2021/07/26
WWE RAW #1470
1.321,814,000
2021/07/19
WWE RAW #1469
1.461,923,000

7/12 did better viewership ratings without Roman and his double world championship triple threat main event, which simply blends in and statistically ended up becoming a blow average show for the time period. 

Not exactly what one might expect from such a "needle mover" like Rerun Reigns.


----------



## RapShepard

PavelGaborik said:


> That...that isn't impressive. Do you genuinely believe I'm incapable of looking of RAWs viewership history, as if I wouldn't be curious as to why you conveniently used a four week sample size to fit your narrative?
> 
> Raw ratings dating back to two months prior to Romans double championship triple threat main event as well as a month after :
> 
> 2021/10/04
> WWE RAW #1480
> -1,857,000
> 2021/09/27
> WWE RAW #1479
> -1,709,000
> 2021/09/20
> WWE RAW #1478
> -1,793,000
> 2021/09/13
> WWE RAW #1477
> -1,670,000
> 2021/09/06
> WWE RAW #1476
> -1,849,000
> 2021/08/30
> WWE RAW #1475
> -1,907,000
> 2021/08/23
> WWE RAW #1474
> -2,067,000
> 2021/08/16
> WWE RAW #1473
> -1,857,000
> 2021/08/09
> WWE RAW #1472
> -1,790,000
> 2021/08/02
> WWE RAW #1471
> -1,821,000
> 2021/07/26
> WWE RAW #1470
> 1.321,814,000
> 2021/07/19
> WWE RAW #1469
> 1.461,923,000
> 
> 7/12 did better viewership ratings without Roman and his double world championship triple threat main event, which simply blends in and statistically ended up becoming a blow average show for the time period.
> 
> Not exactly what one might expect from such a "needle mover" like Rerun Reigns.


This is you below





PavelGaborik said:


> He had a massive triple threat main event match on a cross brand a mere month ago, a show that drew a measly 1.7 million viewers, a show that had a better rating a mere 14 days later without any major cross brand appearances to my knowledge.


in your salt because you don't want to admit Reigns is a moderate modern draw bigger than what AEW has you tried to use Raw ratings to prove how he can't affect TV. The issue is the episode you tried to use was a specialty show aka the WWE draft.

Your extra samples are irrelevant because unlike my 4 week sample, Regular season Monday Night Football wasn't on. 

So the facts are during Monday night football season Reigns showed up to Raw and raised the ratings from The previous week, the next week without him ratings went down.


----------



## PavelGaborik

RapShepard said:


> This is you below
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> in your salt because you don't want to admit Reigns is a moderate modern draw bigger than what AEW has you tried to use Raw ratings to prove how he can't affect TV. The issue is the episode you tried to use was a specialty show aka the WWE draft.
> 
> Your extra samples are irrelevant because unlike my 4 week sample, Regular season Monday Night Football wasn't on.
> 
> So the facts are during Monday night football season Reigns showed up to Raw and raised the ratings from The previous week, the next week without him ratings went down.


Do you have an iota of evidence to support your implication that Monday Night Football is solely responsible for the drastic drop off?

Because the last time I checked there's no Monday Night Football in June or July when RAW was drawing even less of an audience then they are currently with Monday Night Football to compete with.

The facts are during a massive triple threat match the ratings rose by around 6%, went down slightly the next week and then proceeded to surpass the 6% gain a mere 14 days later.

The man doesn't move the needle, the only individuals proving to be salty to this statistical fact right now are the Roman dick riders.

Oh & again, FS1 did better with Roman at home.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Nah it's salt, it's the same weird narrative about literally everybody in wrestling. Let places like here tell it Cena, Batista, Orton, Edge, Bryan, Punk, Sheamus, Del Rio, Reigns, Ambrose, Rollins, Owens, Wyatt, Strowman, Lesnar, Rousey, Styles, Charlotte, Becky, Bayley, Sasha, Drew, Lashley, Big E, and Kofi all are hated ratings killers


So, we should give credit to Roman for drawing the best of the remaining fans that stick around for his exact, overproduced and scripted style of Sports Entertainment, correct?

Should we label Orange Cassidy a draw, because when AEW was doing weekly dumb shit during the pandemic, he was Ratings King in the Land of the Dumb Shi

I ain’t saying whether Roman is a ratings killer or not (I don’t believe he is obviously), BUT…the style he does best (and the style everyone around him is forced to work) has the largest wrestling company ever being watched by…2 million viewers.

Just throwing it out there for discussion.


----------



## RapShepard

PavelGaborik said:


> Do you have an iota of evidence to support your implication that Monday Night Football is solely responsible for the drastic drop off?
> 
> Because the last time I checked there's no Monday Night Football in June or July when RAW was drawing even less of an audience then they are currently with Monday Night Football to compete with.
> 
> The facts are during a massive triple threat match the ratings rose by around 6%, went down slightly the next week and then proceeded to surpass the 6% gain a mere 14 days later.
> 
> The man doesn't move the needle, the only individuals proving to be salty to this statistical fact right now are the Roman dick riders.
> 
> Oh & again, FS1 did better with Roman at home.


Below is you



PavelGaborik said:


> He had a massive triple threat main event match on a cross brand a mere month ago, a show that drew a measly 1.7 million viewers, a show that had a better rating a mere 14 days later without any major cross brand appearances to my knowledge.


Your premise immediately fails because the higher episode you mentioned not only had a cross brand appearances but it was the draft. 

Your FS1 point holds no weight because Raw announced Reigns would be there it went up. Nobody knew Reigns wouldn't be on SmackDown. 

Hell even the measley 1.7 is more than what a certain company is pulling in with Bryan, Punk, Mox, and Omega without going up against the NFL lol


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> So, we should give credit to Roman for drawing the best of the remaining fans that stick around for his exact, overproduced and scripted style of Sports Entertainment, correct?
> 
> Should we label Orange Cassidy a draw, because when AEW was doing weekly dumb shit during the pandemic, he was Ratings King in the Land of the Dumb Shi
> 
> I ain’t saying whether Roman is a ratings killer or not (I don’t believe he is obviously), BUT…the style he does best (and the style everyone around him is forced to work) has the largest wrestling company ever being watched by…2 million viewers.
> 
> Just throwing it out there for discussion.


It comes down to this when it comes to fans talking shit AEW first fans and Elite fans don't have the numbers to back their shit up. Now in reality AEW is killing it and doing it's thing. But also in reality despite what the hardcore bubble wants to admit WWE is killing it and doing their thing even more. 

The truth is people that watch wrestling rather watch Reigns, Big E, Lashley, and Drew > Omega, Moxley, Bryan, and Punk

Maybe that changes in the future if AEW's stories get better. But as of now they're a distant 3rd place.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lol

@Firefromthegods 

shall we just make this ‘THE ratings thread’ and move it to the top of the forum in its own section?


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> It comes down to this when it comes to fans talking shit AEW first fans and Elite fans don't have the numbers to back their shit up. Now in reality AEW is killing it and doing it's thing. But also in reality despite what the hardcore bubble wants to admit WWE is killing it and doing their thing even more.
> 
> The truth is people that watch wrestling rather watch Reigns, Big E, Lashley, and Drew > Omega, Moxley, Bryan, and Punk
> 
> Maybe that changes in the future if AEW's stories get better. But as of now they're a distant 3rd place.


No, people that rather Sports Entertainment would rather watch those guys.

You have to look at what Vince’s stranglehold on the industry over 2 decades has had on the potential audience. Wrestling has styles that are usually very country specific, right? The Eastern has strong style, Europe and its submission-based style, and American wrestling had what we consider “old school” then Vince, in chasing his dream to “make movies”, created “Sports Entertainment”. Now obviously all wrestling has some aspects of this given it is a scripted sport, but Vince leans HEAVILY into that.

So much so that when people think of “wrestling” now, they think “Sports Entertainment”. A big budget NWA could come through, a modern day Eric Bischoff, whatever - and they’d struggle to overthrow WWE, because WWE’s style is what fans think “wrestling” is now.

You are a prime example of this. You would get bored if you had to watch Sting/Vader’s program or Sting and Flair’s feud that lead to Flair “making” Sting, because you didn’t get a soap opera full of back and forths with 15 minute back and forth BS.

WWE is not professional wrestling. Props to them for doing sports entertainment better than everyone else and killing what the industry really was, but more “wrestling fans” do not enjoy them than AEW.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> No, people that rather Sports Entertainment would rather watch those guys.
> 
> You have to look at what Vince’s stranglehold on the industry over 2 decades has had on the potential audience. Wrestling has styles that are usually very country specific, right? The Eastern has strong style, Europe and its submission-based style, and American wrestling had what we consider “old school” then Vince, in chasing his dream to “make movies”, created “Sports Entertainment”. Now obviously all wrestling has some aspects of this given it is a scripted sport, but Vince leans HEAVILY into that.
> 
> So much so that when people think of “wrestling” now, they think “Sports Entertainment”. A big budget NWA could come through, a modern day Eric Bischoff, whatever - and they’d struggle to overthrow WWE, because WWE’s style is what fans think “wrestling” is now.
> 
> You are a prime example of this. You would get bored if you had to watch Sting/Vader’s program or Sting and Flair’s feud that lead to Flair “making” Sting, because you didn’t get a soap opera full of back and forths with 15 minute back and forth BS.
> 
> WWE is not professional wrestling. Props to them for doing sports entertainment better than everyone else and killing what the industry really was, but more “wrestling fans” do not enjoy them than AEW.


All of this is just you making a long drawn out excuse about why the wrestling you like most is less enjoyable to people. The fact of the matter is you like sports entertainment, just a less popular version of it. Hangman Page going from tag along kid of The Elite, to depressed alcoholic trying to find his way, to a finally confident man on the cusp of becoming world champion with a bunch of misfits behind him is soap opera sports entertainment shit to it's core. 

You just badly try to convince yourself that the wrestling you like isn't as ridiculous other shit. NWA's big thing was who can stop this rich asshole who gets bitches Ric Flair, but you don't like soap opera in your wrestling.

For fucks sake Sting was a bleach blonde in colorful face paint fighting monsters like Vader and assholes like Flair. Keep it a buck he was every bit the superhero for kids and the common man as Hogan. He just looked cooler because he had face paint and wasn't bald. 

Kenny runs around making silly faces dressing up having complex kind of homoerotic relationships with guys like Ibushi, but you don't like soap opera and sports entertainment in your wrestling lol. Who are you trying to convince me or you. You like sports entertainment, you just fake don't want it from Vince because you picked a team years ago.


----------



## PavelGaborik

RapShepard said:


> Below is you
> 
> 
> 
> *Your premise immediately fails because the higher episode you mentioned not only had a cross brand appearances* but it was the draft.
> 
> Your FS1 point holds no weight because Raw announced Reigns would be there it went up. Nobody knew Reigns wouldn't be on SmackDown.
> 
> Hell even the measley 1.7 is more than what a certain company is pulling in with Bryan, Punk, Mox, and Omega without going up against the NFL lol


What are you talking about? Reigns himself is an individual on a cross brand appearance for that particular episode of RAW.

Of course the FS1 holds weight, he didn't appear and people continued to tune in. Do you have some sort of hidden evidence that the ratings went up 200k because they were on the edge of their seat for the two hour episode waiting for Reigns to appear?

We keep deflecting to AEW ratings when we're clearly losing the debate, but unfortunately for you my argument has stayed rather consistent throughout this ordeal : Roman isn't a draw and the ratings have declined throughout his main event push.

You've also completely and totally failed to acknowledge the fact that the NFL season ends in February dude, what's up with the evident ratings from fucking July?!


----------



## RapShepard

PavelGaborik said:


> What are you talking about? Reigns himself is an individual on a cross brand appearance for that particular episode of RAW.
> 
> Of course the FS1 holds weight, he didn't appear and people continued to tune in. Do you have some sort of hidden evidence that the ratings went up 200k because they were on the edge of their seat for the two hour episode waiting for Reigns to appear?
> 
> We keep deflecting to AEW ratings when we're clearly losing the debate, but unfortunately for you my argument has stayed rather consistent throughout this ordeal : Roman isn't a draw and the ratings have declined throughout his main event push.


Again your argument falls apart because of this below






PavelGaborik said:


> He had a massive triple threat main event match on a cross brand a mere month ago, a show that drew a measly 1.7 million viewers, a show that had a better rating a mere 14 days later without any major cross brand appearances to my knowledge.


When your proof of his lack of draw is "he didn't draw as much as a Raw that featured a cross brand title match and the draft" you kinda don't have much of a point. You're the one who bought these episodes up not me.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> All of this is just you making a long drawn out excuse about why the wrestling you like most is less enjoyable to people. The fact of the matter is you like sports entertainment, just a less popular version of it. Hangman Page going from tag along kid of The Elite, to depressed alcoholic trying to find his way, to a finally confident man on the cusp of becoming world champion with a bunch of misfits behind him is soap opera sports entertainment shit to it's core.
> 
> You just badly try to convince yourself that the wrestling you like isn't as ridiculous other shit. NWA's big thing was who can stop this rich asshole who gets bitches Ric Flair, but you don't like soap opera in your wrestling.
> 
> For fucks sake Sting was a bleach blonde in colorful face paint fighting monsters like Vader and assholes like Flair. Keep it a buck he was every bit the superhero for kids and the common man as Hogan. He just looked cooler because he had face paint and wasn't bald.
> 
> Kenny runs around making silly faces dressing up having complex kind of homoerotic relationships with guys like Ibushi, but you don't like soap opera and sports entertainment in your wrestling lol. Who are you trying to convince me or you. You like sports entertainment, you just fake don't want it from Vince because you picked a team years ago.


You are missing the point. Stories have to exist, but in PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING, the audience does not show up to watch 20 minute promos back and forth. Your response to this only further proves my point that you wouldn’t fucking understand the appeal of NWA or old school wrestling that didn’t need to spend 45 mins of its 1 hour doing soap opera BS.

Even your Hangman and Kenny example sucks, because they have cut all of 5-6 promos on each other in 2 years of telling this story. Why? Because I’m professional wrestling, the action should be able to fill in most of the details.

WWE is soap opera talk talk talk talk bullshit. That you can’t see the difference proves why my theory that American audiences don’t KNOW professional wrestling.


----------



## PavelGaborik

RapShepard said:


> Again your argument falls apart because of this below
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When your proof of his lack of draw is "he didn't draw as much as a Raw that featured a cross brand title match and the draft" you kinda don't have much of a point. You're the one who bought these episodes up not me.


So both shows had major cross brand appearances and the one that Roman Reigns was featured in the Main Event in, drew less? I mean sure, mistake on me but that only helps my point haha.

RAW was still drawing 1.5's during the Summer without competition from Monday Night Football from February on. Any argument for that yet or are we seemingly going to continue to ignore this as well?

7/12 weeks from July on drew better without your Hero Main Eventing, or even appearing. 

Who's salty again?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> You are missing the point. Stories have to exist, but in PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING, the audience does not show up to watch 20 minute promos back and forth. Your response to this only further proves my point that you wouldn’t fucking understand the appeal of NWA or old school wrestling that didn’t need to spend 45 mins of its 1 hour doing soap opera BS.
> 
> Even your Hangman and Kenny example sucks, because they have cut all of 5-6 promos on each other in 2 years of telling this story. Why? Because I’m professional wrestling, the action should be able to fill in most of the details.
> 
> WWE is soap opera talk talk talk talk bullshit. That you can’t see the difference proves why my theory that American audiences don’t KNOW professional wrestling.


this is true - if Hangman / Kenny was in WWE we would’ve had 20 in-ring and backstage promos between the 2 by now going on and on about drinking and how the one is shit and the other not and blah blah blah

would’ve driven it into the ground by month 6 after their 9th match

in AEW, 90% of the story happens during the matches / in WWE the matches are just a way to get from segment 1 to segment 2 in the story


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> You are missing the point. Stories have to exist, but in PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING, the audience does not show up to watch 20 minute promos back and forth. Your response to this only further proves my point that you wouldn’t fucking understand the appeal of NWA or old school wrestling that didn’t need to spend 45 mins of its 1 hour doing soap opera BS.
> 
> Even your Hangman and Kenny example sucks, because they have cut all of 5-6 promos on each other in 2 years of telling this story. Why? Because I’m professional wrestling, the action should be able to fill in most of the details.
> 
> WWE is soap opera talk talk talk talk bullshit. That you can’t see the difference proves why my theory that American audiences don’t KNOW professional wrestling.


Nobodies missing the point you're just badly trying to explain why your sports entertainment is less sports entertainment, but the issue is we both watched it and I know you're full of it. You're trying to do a weird "well my favorite sports entertainment has 77% less opening promos therefore it's different" when the reality is you like soap opera shit. 

I mean Kenny's reign started with him declaring Don Callis was his wrestling daddy, it then saw The Bucks going to his house (with picture of buff Kenny and Don) and spending weeks trying to get Callis to not corrupt Kenny, before they eventually said fuck it we'll join you in evil. You say story I say sports entertainment soap opera. 

The reality of it is unlike me you don't enjoy both brands so you're coming from a bull shit angle to begin with. I got into wrestling because of WCW, first wrestler I ever saw was Booker T on a WCW Saturday night show. I discovered WWF years later and couldn't even consistently watch it because element school and they had Sable, Godfather, and Val Venis lol. I watch WWE and AEW. You've admittedly never liked Vince's show therefore all of your points about it have to be judged with a grain of salt, because you're speaking from the mouth of somebody that didn't like and is high key annoyed that it destroyed the show you liked. I say that as somebody that like you watched WCW to the end. 

You like Sports Entertainment you just want it in a non-McMahon wrapper.


----------



## zkorejo

LifeInCattleClass said:


> this is true - if Hangman / Kenny was in WWE we would’ve had 20 in-ring and backstage promos between the 2 by now going on and on about drinking and how the one is shit and the other not and blah blah blah
> 
> would’ve driven it into the ground by month 6 after their 9th match
> 
> in AEW, 90% of the story happens during the matches / in WWE the matches are just a way to get from segment 1 to segment 2 in the story


Not to mention all the promos would have same material paraphrased. 

Rey and his son have been doing the same shit for a year now and it's the same story beat week in week out.


----------



## bdon

And I really don’t want to sound like one of those fans who suggest you’re an idiot for enjoying WWE. A lot of my friends prefer the long, promo-heavy style of WWE, because Austin/Rock is where their fandom started.

But I assure you, wrestling is not supposed to consist of that much talking.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> this is true - if Hangman / Kenny was in WWE we would’ve had 20 in-ring and backstage promos between the 2 by now going on and on about drinking and how the one is shit and the other not and blah blah blah
> 
> would’ve driven it into the ground by month 6 after their 9th match
> 
> in AEW, 90% of the story happens during the matches / in WWE the matches are just a way to get from segment 1 to segment 2 in the story


I noticed @RapShepard refuses to address this.

WWE is promo-heavy bullshit. Only in the last 2 decades did American “wrestling” become so heavy-handed on beating the audience over the head with talking segments.


----------



## RapShepard

PavelGaborik said:


> So both shows had major cross brand appearances and the one that Roman Reigns was featured in the Main Event in, drew less? I mean sure, mistake on me but that only helps my point haha.
> 
> RAW was still drawing 1.5's during the Summer without competition from Monday Night Football from February on. Any argument for that yet or are we seemingly going to continue to ignore this as well?
> 
> 7/12 weeks from July on drew better without your Hero Main Eventing, or even appearing.
> 
> Who's salty again?



Again this is you below



PavelGaborik said:


> He had a massive triple threat main event match on a cross brand a mere month ago, a show that drew a measly 1.7 million viewers, a show that had a better rating a mere 14 days later without any major cross brand appearances to my knowledge.


You brought up these shows not me. It's not my fault that you were wrong. You said that episode of Raw that had no cross brand appearances and was just a normal Raw outperformed the Reigns special appearance. It's not my fault you were wrong about the nature of that episode. I didn't make that statement you did. 

And your point you're trying to make in the 2nd paragraph doesn't make a lot of sense. You're arguing that Raw before football was doing 1.5 million viewers mostly, yet then trying to say Reigns showing up and popping 1.7 million viewers against football is bad. Like if that's the hill you want to die on I guess.


----------



## zkorejo

bdon said:


> And I really don’t want to sound like one of those fans who suggest you’re an idiot for enjoying WWE. A lot of my friends prefer the long, promo-heavy style of WWE, because Austin/Rock is where their fandom started.
> 
> But I assure you, wrestling is not supposed to consist of *that much talking*.


Especially not with the words they use for every character. "I will eviscerate you". Who talks like that irl? Every character use the same big words except a few. Same words different delivery. 

I absolutely cringe whenever they use "Bitch" as a punchline to get a cheap pop. "Oooh he/she said bitch now it's on". Lol.

Top stars clearly get their own stuff in to stand out from the rest.


----------



## Garty

Hey, how about that AEW promotion, huh?!


----------



## bdon

Ric Flair is the best promo in the game. Jake Roberts. Arn Anderson. RODDY FUCKING PIPER. 

And they never needed to talk for 20 minutes to tell their story, because they did a professional wrestling promo, not a Days of Our Lives back and forth between Stefano DiMera and John Black (if y’all were close with your grandmothers, you’d know what I’m talking about haha)


----------



## PavelGaborik

RapShepard said:


> Again this is you below
> 
> 
> 
> You brought up these shows not me. It's not my fault that you were wrong. You said that episode of Raw that had no cross brand appearances and was just a normal Raw outperformed the Reigns special appearance. It's not my fault you were wrong about the nature of that episode. I didn't make that statement you did.
> 
> And your point you're trying to make in the 2nd paragraph doesn't make a lot of sense. You're arguing that Raw before football was doing 1.5 million viewers mostly, yet then trying to say Reigns showing up and popping 1.7 million viewers against football is bad. Like if that's the hill you want to die on I guess.


Again, you should take the time to actually read the comments you're responding to. It was a cross promoted product? So was the Reigns triple threat, so it's perfectly comparable, Reigns delivered an inferior rating.

I'll simplify this to the best of my ability : Your argument was Reigns didn't draw a significant number due to Monday Night football, yet you've provided zero substance to back up your argument. What I'm stating shouldn't be as complex as you're making it out to be, I provided examples of the ratings performing worse in July where football Season ceased to exist. Examples that show ratings performing better with or without your hero, implying Monday Night Football has had a minimal effect on Romans failure to draw eyes to the television.

Ratings have declined underneath the current Reigns push, I've provided far more data then I should have to support this fact, I'm sorry you're having such a difficult time coping, but it's not my problem.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> And I really don’t want to sound like one of those fans who suggest you’re an idiot for enjoying WWE. A lot of my friends prefer the long, promo-heavy style of WWE, because Austin/Rock is where their fandom started.
> 
> But I assure you, wrestling is not supposed to consist of that much talking.






bdon said:


> I noticed @RapShepard refuses to address this.
> 
> WWE is promo-heavy bullshit. Only in the last 2 decades did American “wrestling” become so heavy-handed on beating the audience over the head with talking segments.


So you mean the business and what works changed, golly gee who would've thought lol. Look the reality is the construction of the current weekly wrestling with PPVs business is that things work a lot better when the weekly TV is my story heavy and leads to confrontations on special events. 

The average viewer isn't a hardcore wrestling fan counting the amount of wrestling with a stop watch, that's what you won't acknowledge. The majority of fans want a reason to get into the action. The promos, segments, and vignettes assist that. The truth is you couldn't tell me half the matches that took place on Dynamite in May of this year. But I bet you remember the stories that culminated at Double or Nothing 3, why because the stories is the shit that matters. 

Dynamite has so much action yet it's losing out to the 3 hour that according to hardcore fans is the worst thing ever and nobody wants to watch. Maybe just maybe the hardcore bubble isn't a good judge of what works.


----------



## CM Buck

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Lol
> 
> @Firefromthegods
> 
> shall we just make this ‘THE ratings thread’ and move it to the top of the forum in its own section?


We definitely could use a ratings math geeks section


----------



## RapShepard

PavelGaborik said:


> Again, you should take the time to actually read the comments you're responding to. It was a cross promoted product? So was the Reigns triple threat, so it's perfectly comparable, Reigns deliver an inferior rating.
> 
> I'll simplify this to the best of my ability : Your argument was Reigns didn't draw a significant number due to Monday Night football, yet you've provided zero substance to back up your argument. What I'm stating shouldn't be as complex as you're making it out to be, I provided examples of the ratings performing worse in July where football Season ceases to exist. Examples that show ratings performing better with or without your hero, implying Monday Night Football has had a minimal effect on Romans failure to draw eyes to the television.


Again this is you below






PavelGaborik said:


> He had a massive triple threat main event match on a cross brand a mere month ago, a show that drew a measly 1.7 million viewers, *a show that had a better rating a mere 14 days later without any major cross brand appearances to my knowledge.*


You're wrong off this alone. You admittedly aren't a fan. You've been caught blatantly lying as come on, you didn't remember that episode did better than the Reigns episode, but forget it was a draft episode that also featured Charlotte vs Bianca for the title. You got proved wrong it's okay.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> So you mean the business and what works changed, golly gee who would've thought lol. Look the reality is the construction of the current weekly wrestling with PPVs business is that things work a lot better when the weekly TV is my story heavy and leads to confrontations on special events.
> 
> The average viewer isn't a hardcore wrestling fan counting the amount of wrestling with a stop watch, that's what you won't acknowledge. The majority of fans want a reason to get into the action. The promos, segments, and vignettes assist that. The truth is you couldn't tell me half the matches that took place on Dynamite in May of this year. But I bet you remember the stories that culminated at Double or Nothing 3, why because the stories is the shit that matters.
> 
> Dynamite has so much action yet it's losing out to the 3 hour that according to hardcore fans is the worst thing ever and nobody wants to watch. Maybe just maybe the hardcore bubble isn't a good judge of what works.


What “works” ran off 10+ million fans. What “works” has killed the industry and the way it worked for a 100 years to the point that “American wrestling” is now viewed as heavy on 15 minute promos.

What “works” for sports entertainment works for Sports Entertainment, because Vince killed any the style enjoyed by those 10 million fans to the point where an action-heavy product doesn’t feel like “wrestling” anymore.

It took 2 decades to make fans believe 20 minute promos is the norm and to not appreciate the story told between the ropes. It will likely take at least a few years to undo it.

But it is slowly happening: peep the ever increasing 18-34 demos.


----------



## PavelGaborik

RapShepard said:


> Again this is you below
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're wrong off this alone. You admittedly aren't a fan. You've been caught blatantly lying as come on, you didn't remember that episode did better than the Reigns episode, but forget it was a draft episode that also featured Charlotte vs Bianca for the title. You got proved wrong it's okay.


I've replied to this several different times and asked you simple questions :

How exactly does Roman losing a cross promotional show against Bianca Belair help your case?

You continue to deflect and focus on one minor detail that has repeatedly been addressed and had zero impact on my overall argument. I had respect for you as a poster previously but I won't pull, you're embarrassing yourself tonight.

Again, your Monday Night Football argument statistically have had an extremely minor to non-existent impact this year whether you like it or not, your inability to comprehend simplicity isn't on me, it's on you.

https://www.wrestlingdata.com/index.php?befehl=quoten&art=2&liga=1&show=1&sort=0&seite=3

You've lost this debate, repeatedly replying without actually reading the post you're replying to is only digging you further.


----------



## DammitChrist

PavelGaborik said:


> Didn't Smackdown literally just do nearly 200k viewers better on FS1 WITHOUT Reigns last week?
> 
> The narrative that this guy is some sort of major draw needs to die already, ratings have taken a major dip ever since he was pushed as a main event talent.


I'm glad that I am not the only one who noticed that fact 😂


----------



## PavelGaborik

DammitChrist said:


> I'm glad that I am not the only one who noticed that fact 😂


Keep scrolling, you'll quickly learn that facts take a backseat to emotions in this thread.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> What “works” ran off 10+ million fans. What “works” has killed the industry and the way it worked for a 100 years to the point that “American wrestling” is now viewed as heavy on 15 minute promos.
> 
> What “works” for sports entertainment works for Sports Entertainment, because Vince killed any the style enjoyed by those 10 million fans to the point where an action-heavy product doesn’t feel like “wrestling” anymore.
> 
> It took 2 decades to make fans believe 20 minute promos is the norm and to not appreciate the story told between the ropes. It will likely take at least a few years to undo it.
> 
> But it is slowly happening: peep the ever increasing 18-34 demos.


Okay so by your logic why isn't the more wrestling heavy Dynamite in 1st instead of 3rd? In the streaming era where shit can pop off at any moment I'm not trying to hear, AEW needs time. 

You're preference of how wrestling should be done is even less popular than your arch enemy Vince. Let's say both of y'all are wrong... It just so happens you're wronger as of now. AEW has Punk, Bryan, Moxley, you're guy Omega and they're still losing to Big E and Lashley in the demo. 

Sidenote as far as your other angle. I don't get how you and others think " my wrestling has more action and less words, therefore it's more sophisticated" is a legit argument lol. It's like a Fast & Furious fan arguing "my serious has more action and explosions, it's not for you drooling causal movie watchers". 




PavelGaborik said:


> I've replied to this several different times and asked you simple questions :
> 
> How exactly does Roman losing a cross promotional show against Bianca Belair help your case?
> 
> You continue to deflect and focus on one minor detail that has repeatedly been addressed and had zero impact on my overall argument. I had respect for you as a poster previously but I won't pull, you're embarrassing yourself tonight.
> 
> Again, your Monday Night Football argument statistically have had an extremely minor to non-existent impact this year whether you like it or not, your inability to comprehend simplicity isn't on me, it's on you.
> 
> https://www.wrestlingdata.com/index.php?befehl=quoten&art=2&liga=1&show=1&sort=0&seite=3
> 
> You've lost this debate, repeatedly replying without actually reading the post you're replying to is only digging you further.


Again this is you below






PavelGaborik said:


> He had a massive triple threat main event match on a cross brand a mere month ago, a show that drew a measly 1.7 million viewers, *a show that had a better rating a mere 14 days later without any major cross brand appearances to my knowledge.*


You're entire argument started from a falsehood and it got pointed out. You're now trying to spin in any direction to be right. You can look above in this thread prior to today I've never said Reigns was a major draw and I've even said if he can't get folk to turn to FS1 or watch regardless of competition that's on him and the show for not being must see. I'm consistent

You're just salty he's a bigger draw than your preference and that I showed you up by pointing out the above episode you tried to use as a gotcha, not only had a crossover appearance, but was the 2nd night of the draft.


----------



## DammitChrist

PavelGaborik said:


> Keep scrolling, you'll quickly learn that facts take a backseat to emotions in this thread.


I'm caught up now 

I'll also add in the fact that it's cute how Smackdown's viewership was dipping under 2 million viewers several months into his Universal title reign earlier this year, and it took the return of live crowds in mid-July to save his overrated ass by reaching over 2 million views again


----------



## PavelGaborik

RapShepard said:


> Okay so by your logic why isn't the more wrestling heavy Dynamite in 1st instead of 3rd? In the streaming era where shit can pop off at any moment I'm not trying to hear, AEW needs time.
> 
> You're preference of how wrestling should be done is even less popular than your arch enemy Vince. Let's say both of y'all are wrong... It just so happens you're wronger as of now. AEW has Punk, Bryan, Moxley, you're guy Omega and they're still losing to Big E and Lashley in the demo.
> 
> Sidenote as far as your other angle. I don't get how you and others think " my wrestling has more action and less words, therefore it's more sophisticated" is a legit argument lol. It's like a Fast & Furious fan arguing "my serious has more action and explosions, it's not for you drooling causal movie watchers".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again this is you below
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're entire argument started from a falsehood and it got pointed out. You're now trying to spin in any direction to be right. *You can look above in this thread prior to today I've never said Reigns was a major draw* and I've even said if he can't get folk to turn to FS1 or watch regardless of competition that's on him and the show for not being must see. I'm consistent
> 
> You're just salty he's a bigger draw than your preference and that I showed you up by pointing out the above episode you tried to use as a gotcha, not only had a crossover appearance, but was the 2nd night of the draft.


Yet here you are are, endlessly defending his honor on a random thread on the internet in the middle of the AM because I literally stated statistically people don't give a fuck if he's there or not. 

The "gotcha" was the 7/12 episodes Reigns statistically performed inferior to and the fact that you failed to have a logical response to the fact that Monday Night Football statistically has made a minimal impact on RAW.

A cross promoted Bianca Belair outdrawing a cross promoted Roman Reigns doesn't help your case, I'm not not going to repeat this again, I shouldn't have to, I thought you Roman fan boys were all about acknowledging?!


----------



## RapShepard

PavelGaborik said:


> Yet here you are are, endlessly defending his honor on a random thread on the internet in the middle of the AM because I literally stated statistically people don't give a fuck if he's there or not.
> 
> The "gotcha" was the 7/12 episodes Reigns statistically performed inferior to and the fact that you failed to have a logical response to the fact that Monday Night Football statistically has made a minimal impact on RAW.
> 
> A cross promoted Bianca Belair outdrawing a cross promoted Roman Reigns doesn't help your case, I'm not not going to repeat this again, I shouldn't have to, I thought you Roman fan boys were all about acknowledging?!


Again this is you below 






PavelGaborik said:


> He had a massive triple threat main event match on a cross brand a mere month ago, a show that drew a measly 1.7 million viewers, a show that had a better rating a mere 14 days later without any major cross brand appearances to my knowledge.


They announced Reigns ratings went up next week ratings go down your example above was the complete opposite you presented. 

This is you below as well



PavelGaborik said:


> RAW was still drawing 1.5's during the Summer without competition from Monday Night Football from February on. Any argument for that yet or are we seemingly going to continue to ignore this as well?
> 
> 7/12 weeks from July on drew better without your Hero Main Eventing, or even appearing.
> 
> Who's salty again?


So your argument is essentially

"Reigns isn't a draw, he just showed up and produced a rating that was better than what they were doing before Monday Night Football was on"

That asshole Reigns showing up on Raw and raising ratings despite it being pigskin season.


----------



## PavelGaborik

RapShepard said:


> Again this is you below
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They announced Reigns ratings went up next week ratings go down your example above was the complete opposite you presented.
> 
> This is you below as well
> 
> 
> 
> *So your argument is essentially
> 
> "Reigns isn't a draw, he just showed up and produced a rating that was better than what they were doing before Monday Night Football was on"*
> 
> That asshole Reigns showing up on Raw and raising ratings despite it being pigskin season.


Incorrect, can easily be proven incorrect if you weren't too lazy to actually read the posts you're responding to.


If you think a desperate, lazy strawman is going to dig you out of this hole I've got some bad news for you.

Your tribal hero had an inferior rating compared to 7/11 of directly comparable shows, whether you like it or not. 

You have a good night now.


----------



## RapShepard

PavelGaborik said:


> Incorrect, can easily be proven incorrect if you weren't too lazy to actually read the posts you're responding to.
> 
> If you think a desperate, lazy strawman is going to dig you out of this hole I've got some bad news for you.
> 
> You have a good night now.


Again this is you below 






PavelGaborik said:


> He had a massive triple threat main event match on a cross brand a mere month ago, a show that drew a measly 1.7 million viewers, a show that had a better rating a mere 14 days later without any major cross brand appearances to my knowledge.


This is you below as well



PavelGaborik said:


> RAW was still drawing 1.5's during the Summer without competition from Monday Night Football from February on. Any argument for that yet or are we seemingly going to continue to ignore this as well?
> 
> 7/12 weeks from July on drew better without your Hero Main Eventing, or even appearing.
> 
> Who's salty again?


I have told no lies this entire conversation. Reigns was announced for Raw and it did a higher rating than the week before and after. You claimed the episode of Raw 2 weeks later did better with no cross brand help, but that was a lie. 2 weeks later Raw featured the final night of the draft and a cross brand title match. 

You highlighted that Raw was doing 1.5s with no football... But then tried to said Reigns popping up for a guest appearance bringing in an extra 200k while going against Football didn't show he was a draw. 

Facts is Reigns showing up on Raw is bigger than a Dynamite debut and Dynamite featuring Punk, Bryan, Moxley, and Omega


----------



## DammitChrist

Gloating over an old ocean having a greater volume of water compared to that of a newly formed lake isn't really anything groundbreaking (or impressive).


----------



## PavelGaborik

RapShepard said:


> Again this is you below
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is you below as well
> 
> 
> 
> I have told no lies this entire conversation. Reigns was announced for Raw and it did a higher rating than the week before and after. You claimed the episode of Raw 2 weeks later did better with no cross brand help, but that was a lie. 2 weeks later Raw featured the final night of the draft and a cross brand title match.
> 
> You highlighted that Raw was doing 1.5s with no football... But then tried to said Reigns popping up for a guest appearance bringing in an extra 200k while going against Football didn't show he was a draw.
> 
> Facts is Reigns showing up on Raw is bigger than a Dynamite debut and Dynamite featuring Punk, Bryan, Moxley, and Omega


What? I highlighted shows with and without Roman Reigns that statistically did better without the influence of Monday Night Football as an example that the influence wasn't as substantial as you Implied, not particularly sure how this has continued to go over your head.

The fact is when we look at the large scale, Romans appearance on RAW had a minimal impact in the short term, and a non existent impact when we consider the longer term sample sizes where he actually had an inferior rating compared to the majority of recent shows.

Would you concede Bianca is a bigger draw than Roman?


----------



## RapShepard

PavelGaborik said:


> I highlighted shows with and without Roman Reigns that statistically did better without the influence of Monday Night Football as an example that the influence wasn't as substantial as you Implied, not particularly sure how this has continued to go over your head.


This immediately falls apart because your initial argument below wasn't talking pre-football or special episodes because this you below 


Again this is you below 




PavelGaborik said:


> He had a massive triple threat main event match on a cross brand a mere month ago, a show that drew a measly 1.7 million viewers, a show that had a better rating a mere 14 days later without any major cross brand appearances to my knowledge.


I didn't bring in this variable you did



> The fact is when we look at the large scale, Romans appearance on RAW had a minimal impact in the short term, and a non existent impact when we consider the longer term sample sizes where he actually had an inferior rating compared to the majority of recent shows.
> 
> Would you concede Bianca is a bigger draw than Roman?


The issue is because you aren't a fan of reigns (side note fair we all have folk we don't like) you're trying to discredit him anyway you can. You're trying to simultaneously argue that he isn't a draw because him showing up on Raw didn't do as good in ratings and Viewership as episode of Raw with the draft and a cross brand title match. While also downplaying the idea that his announced appearance against football doing better than Raw's that weren't against football, is a bad thing.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Okay so by your logic why isn't the more wrestling heavy Dynamite in 1st instead of 3rd? In the streaming era where shit can pop off at any moment I'm not trying to hear, AEW needs time.


I did already explain this, man. I explained it when I said Vince has spent the last 2 decades programming US television viewing audiences to believe that “wrestling” consists of long-winded, 15-minute promos every segment with the occasional action sprinkled in. 2 fucking decades worth of crafting the idea of an already niche industry.

The internet is pretty fucking awesome, isn’t it? It was created in 1983, yet we were still using Encyclopedia of Britanicas for our information for another decade as the internet didn’t exactly become mainstream until the mid-90s. People don’t know what they don’t know, hence I said it would take at least a few years for a genuine wrestling product (notn episode of Jerry Springer talking for 10 minutes and fighting for 30 seconds) to get attention. Anyone who vividly remembers wrestling from the 80s and before is pushing 50 years old.

And I haven’t said AEW was a serious product. I simply said that it uses action to drive the narrative with the talking bits sprinkled in here and there. The excessive amounts of time saved for promos is why I call it a soap opera. Stefano DiMera and John Black back and forth monologues.

Give AEW time to teach a generation of fans that wrestling can have action, and we’ll see what’s what.

But please don’t think I’m suggesting anyone who enjoys WWE to be classless or lacking taste. That was true in ‘98, but now it is just a case of only knowing what you know. I don’t expect the world to suddenly migrate to TNT and enjoy “wrestling” when they have been slowly driven away in droves for 2 decades.


----------



## 3venflow

They have extended the capacity of the Long Island show to over 10,000 due to strong ticket sales (now at 8,000).

Tonight's Dynamite has sold 3,600+ tickets but is unlikely to be a sell out as that represents 80% of available tickets. There's about 900 left so with a good walk-up it could be close to full. Ticket prices are not very cheap for this show - the cheapest is $54 and there are still some as high as $90 available.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> I did already explain this, man. I explained it when I said Vince has spent the last 2 decades programming US television viewing audiences to believe that “wrestling” consists of long-winded, 15-minute promos every segment with the occasional action sprinkled in. 2 fucking decades worth of crafting the idea of an already niche industry.
> 
> The internet is pretty fucking awesome, isn’t it? It was created in 1983, yet we were still using Encyclopedia of Britanicas for our information for another decade as the internet didn’t exactly become mainstream until the mid-90s. People don’t know what they don’t know, hence I said it would take at least a few years for a genuine wrestling product (notn episode of Jerry Springer talking for 10 minutes and fighting for 30 seconds) to get attention. Anyone who vividly remembers wrestling from the 80s and before is pushing 50 years old.
> 
> And I haven’t said AEW was a serious product. I simply said that it uses action to drive the narrative with the talking bits sprinkled in here and there. The excessive amounts of time saved for promos is why I call it a soap opera. Stefano DiMera and John Black back and forth monologues.
> 
> Give AEW time to teach a generation of fans that wrestling can have action, and we’ll see what’s what.
> 
> But please don’t think I’m suggesting anyone who enjoys WWE to be classless or lacking taste. That was true in ‘98, but now it is just a case of only knowing what you know. I don’t expect the world to suddenly migrate to TNT and enjoy “wrestling” when they have been slowly driven away in droves for 2 decades.


Bruh you like sports entertainment, no amount of "see I prefer pro wrestling which has a X amount of action to Y amount of talking" is going to change that. 

You have a preference of how you like your sports entertainment TV presented, that's valid. Doesn't change to want to be sports entertained with male be action soap operas.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Bruh you like sports entertainment, no amount of "see I prefer pro wrestling which has a X amount of action to Y amount of talking" is going to change that.
> 
> You have a preference of how you like your sports entertainment TV presented, that's valid. Doesn't change to want to be sports entertained with male be action soap operas.


if he likes sports entertainment…. Does pro wrestling just not exist anymore?


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> if he likes sports entertainment…. Does pro wrestling just not exist anymore?


It's one in the same we all know the carny Vince just found a work around to avoid commission fees


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> It's one in the same we all know the carny Vince just found a work around to avoid commission fees


still - vince says he is not doing pro wrestling / tk is saying aew is

so, the bosses of each of these massive companies disagree with you

you saying they’re wrong and you’re right?


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> still - vince says he is not doing pro wrestling / tk is saying aew is
> 
> so, the bosses of each of these massive companies disagree with you
> 
> you saying they’re wrong and you’re right?


I'm saying they both produce the same shit regardless of what pretentious name they want to call it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> I'm saying *they both produce the same shit* regardless of what pretentious name they want to call it.


They really don’t

they both do pro wrestling / but the styles of programming is different.

if you cannot see the difference then I worry

but wwe’s style has made them the largest in the world


----------



## Dr. Middy

RapShepard said:


> Bruh you like sports entertainment, no amount of "see I prefer pro wrestling which has a X amount of action to Y amount of talking" is going to change that.
> 
> You have a preference of how you like your sports entertainment TV presented, that's valid. Doesn't change to want to be sports entertained with male be action soap operas.


Inherently both AEW and WWE are sports entertainment, they just differ in specific aspects enough to where people do see them as different entities with slightly different presentations. Given the average age of WWE viewers being as high as it is, I don't think it exactly has to do with what @bdon is talking about regarding how Vince spent years trying to change the landscape of how pro wrestling was presented and all that jazz. Instead, I chalk it up to people just not finding it worthwhile to change their habits up or feel like trying something new. 

It's akin to how people age with their music tastes. The older you get, the higher chance that the majority of the music you listen to will be the types of music you listened to most likely as a later teen into your 20s, which is why so many people end up going with "this generation has the best music" arguments. You'll probably even see it for this generation in 30 years time. 

But I can see the same thing happening for wrestling, where so many people just see WWE as this comfort food type thing that they are used to, and don't want to branch away from. Realistically Raw and Smackdown may change rosters, or sets, but otherwise the format of the shows and how WWE does their sports entertainment with their wrestling and promos and such hasn't changed much in the last few decades. It's become an easy, familiar watch for a lot of people, and I think these people don't want something else.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> They really don’t
> 
> they both do pro wrestling / but the styles of programming is different.
> 
> if you cannot see the difference then I worry
> 
> but wwe’s style has made them the largest in the world


In the real world they do

In the real world no one is going 

"AEW is pro wrestling, that's different from sports entertainment, there's more fast paced action with less talking and less scripting". 

In the real world AEW is 

"That other wrestling show with uh Jericho and that sunglasses dude"


----------



## RapShepard

Dr. Middy said:


> Inherently both AEW and WWE are sports entertainment, they just differ in specific aspects enough to where people do see them as different entities with slightly different presentations. Given the average age of WWE viewers being as high as it is, I don't think it exactly has to do with what @bdon is talking about regarding how Vince spent years trying to change the landscape of how pro wrestling was presented and all that jazz. Instead, I chalk it up to people just not finding it worthwhile to change their habits up or feel like trying something new.
> 
> It's akin to how people age with their music tastes. The older you get, the higher chance that the majority of the music you listen to will be the types of music you listened to most likely as a later teen into your 20s, which is why so many people end up going with "this generation has the best music" arguments. You'll probably even see it for this generation in 30 years time.
> 
> But I can see the same thing happening for wrestling, where so many people just see WWE as this comfort food type thing that they are used to, and don't want to branch away from. Realistically Raw and Smackdown may change rosters, or sets, but otherwise the format of the shows and how WWE does their sports entertainment with their wrestling and promos and such hasn't changed much in the last few decades. It's become an easy, familiar watch for a lot of people, and I think these people don't want something else.


This all falls apart when you stop and remember the report average age of AEW viewers high as well and aging out the demo. AEW isn't producing some hype show for the kids and next generation. They're producing a show for folk that have always watched wrestling.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> In the real world they do
> 
> In the real world no one is going
> 
> "AEW is pro wrestling, that's different from sports entertainment, there's more fast paced action with less talking and less scripting".
> 
> In the real world AEW is
> 
> "That other wrestling show with uh Jericho and that sunglasses dude"


Dude… we’re all in the real world

….. are you in the matrix?


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Dude… we’re all in the real world
> 
> ….. are you in the matrix?


5th amendment


----------



## Dr. Middy

RapShepard said:


> This all falls apart when you stop and remember the report average age of AEW viewers high as well and aging out the demo. AEW isn't producing some hype show for the kids and next generation. They're producing a show for folk that have always watched wrestling.


Yeah AEW is high as well, and if they're bringing anybody else in, it seems like more older people who were burnt out on wrestling, with some younger fans who grew annoyed with WWE. But I'd guess they aren't really making a ton of new younger fans either, their product is more geared towards those who have previous knowledge of wrestling, but I think their overall wrestling style is more attractive to younger viewers than WWE anyway.

Makes me wonder what a company has to do for that big measured increase in younger fans these days. It's kinda pointless to really ask any of us or any older wrestling personalities really.


----------



## RapShepard

Dr. Middy said:


> Yeah AEW is high as well, and if they're bringing anybody else in, it seems like more older people who were burnt out on wrestling, with some younger fans who grew annoyed with WWE. But I'd guess they aren't really making a ton of new younger fans either, their product is more geared towards those who have previous knowledge of wrestling, but I think their overall wrestling style is more attractive to younger viewers than WWE anyway.
> 
> Makes me wonder what a company has to do for that big measured increase in younger fans these days. It's kinda pointless to really ask any of us or any older wrestling personalities really.


Who knows, but whatever company finds a way to bring in new fans in bulk is made. 

Like on my social medias I seen several kids dressed up as Darby, Bianca, and OC so maybe that's something for both companies.


----------



## CovidFan

RapShepard's undertitle should be forcibly changed to "again, this is you below".


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

CovidFan said:


> RapShepard's undertitle should be forcibly changed to "again, this is you below".


Lol - with this as his sig


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

WWE with that sweet ‘4-pack’ offer cause they can’t sell more tix than AEW who is playing the same arena a week later 

also peep ‘the $15 range’

also peep ‘Rerun Reigns’ added to Dark to move those tix - we’ll rerun all the matches and pray youse guys buys


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1455917296162156554


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Bruh you like sports entertainment, no amount of "see I prefer pro wrestling which has a X amount of action to Y amount of talking" is going to change that.
> 
> You have a preference of how you like your sports entertainment TV presented, that's valid. Doesn't change to want to be sports entertained with male be action soap operas.


Dude, wrestling is not 20 goddamn minute promos. That is not wrestling. That is drama.

Jake Roberts, Arn Anderson, Piper, Flair, etc, and they never needed 20 goddamn minutes to tell their story. Kenny Omega and Page have explained more of their 2 year friendship and falling out over 5-6 promos across than just about any goddamn 20 minute promo can.

And seriously, you can fuck off with that BS telling me what I like and don’t like. I enjoy wrestling. With promos that bridge the segments to the next phase in the action, not action that bridges us to the next episode of a Jerry Springer shutdown between the two “combatants”.


----------



## Whoanma

bdon said:


> wrestling is not 20 goddamn minute promos. That is not wrestling. That is drama.
> 
> Jake Roberts, Arn Anderson, Piper, Flair, etc, and they never needed 20 goddamn minutes to tell their story. Kenny Omega and Page have explained more of their 2 year friendship and falling out over 5-6 promos across than just about any goddamn 20 minute promo can.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> They really don’t
> 
> they both do pro wrestling / but the styles of programming is different.
> 
> if you cannot see the difference then I worry
> 
> but wwe’s style has made them the largest in the world


The WWE does “Sports Entertainment”, aka long-winded promos and backstage invisible camera stuff like you’d see in an actual television show.

AEW does wrestling, and due to the fact that those are people in the ring and we haven’t advanced to the point of goddamn robots, they have to address the human aspect of those guys in the ring. The squared-circle, though, is the star attraction.

In WWE, the main attraction is a microphone.


----------



## bdon

Dr. Middy said:


> Inherently both AEW and WWE are sports entertainment, they just differ in specific aspects enough to where people do see them as different entities with slightly different presentations. Given the average age of WWE viewers being as high as it is, I don't think it exactly has to do with what @bdon is talking about regarding how Vince spent years trying to change the landscape of how pro wrestling was presented and all that jazz. Instead, I chalk it up to people just not finding it worthwhile to change their habits up or feel like trying something new.
> 
> It's akin to how people age with their music tastes. The older you get, the higher chance that the majority of the music you listen to will be the types of music you listened to most likely as a later teen into your 20s, which is why so many people end up going with "this generation has the best music" arguments. You'll probably even see it for this generation in 30 years time.
> 
> But I can see the same thing happening for wrestling, where so many people just see WWE as this comfort food type thing that they are used to, and don't want to branch away from. Realistically Raw and Smackdown may change rosters, or sets, but otherwise the format of the shows and how WWE does their sports entertainment with their wrestling and promos and such hasn't changed much in the last few decades. It's become an easy, familiar watch for a lot of people, and I think these people don't want something else.


This is what I’m talking about, though. Vince has crafted a world where you had to geek out and really HUNT for a wrestling show that focused on the squared circle. He has done so for so long that those who watch WWE only know the WWE-style and think that is how it should be done, leaving them scratching their heads about the way AEW does things.

And the potential audience that AEW is aiming to grab, that younger demo, has given WWE a chance at some point over the years and not understood the appeal of grown men talking back and forth for 20 straight minutes like an episode of Jerry Springer.

So, AEW has to slowly undo the very idea of WHAT prowrestling is and should like, because Vince has bastardized it so goddamn much for the last 20 years as was right for winning the war.

“To the victor go the spoils..”


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> Dude, wrestling is not 20 goddamn minute promos. That is not wrestling. That is drama.
> 
> Jake Roberts, Arn Anderson, Piper, Flair, etc, and they never needed 20 goddamn minutes to tell their story. Kenny Omega and Page have explained more of their 2 year friendship and falling out over 5-6 promos across than just about any goddamn 20 minute promo can.
> 
> And seriously, you can fuck off with that BS telling me what I like and don’t like. I enjoy wrestling. With promos that bridge the segments to the next phase in the action, not action that bridges us to the next episode of a Jerry Springer shutdown between the two “combatants”.


A 20 minute opening promo doesn't stop the show from being a wrestling show. You can stomp your feet and yell about how you prefer more action and less talking and that's fine, but the end of the day you still like sports entertainment. Whether the drama is derived through action or words it's still drama aka soap opera shit. Fact of the matter is right now you engrossed in the shower soap opera take of Omega and Hangman that would fit right in on a CW teen drama or in a long run anime. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the wrestling you like is still a male soap opera even if it's less word heavy lol.


----------



## DaSlacker

Dr. Middy said:


> Yeah AEW is high as well, and if they're bringing anybody else in, it seems like more older people who were burnt out on wrestling, with some younger fans who grew annoyed with WWE. But I'd guess they aren't really making a ton of new younger fans either, their product is more geared towards those who have previous knowledge of wrestling, but I think their overall wrestling style is more attractive to younger viewers than WWE anyway.
> 
> Makes me wonder what a company has to do for that big measured increase in younger fans these days. It's kinda pointless to really ask any of us or any older wrestling personalities really.


At a guess it will enter into obscurity as linear cable TV networks transition fully into on demand platforms. Then the grandkids of the current 18-34 fanbase will instigate a new craze for pro wrestling or sports entertainment or whatever it wants to call itself.


----------



## PavelGaborik

This gif pretty much sums up my night last night.


----------



## bdon

Dr. Middy said:


> Yeah AEW is high as well, and if they're bringing anybody else in, it seems like more older people who were burnt out on wrestling, with some younger fans who grew annoyed with WWE. But I'd guess they aren't really making a ton of new younger fans either, *their product is more geared towards those who have previous knowledge of wrestling*, but I think their overall wrestling style is more attractive to younger viewers than WWE anyway.
> 
> Makes me wonder what a company has to do for that big measured increase in younger fans these days. It's kinda pointless to really ask any of us or any older wrestling personalities really.


This was my point, man.

If you remember when wrestling didn’t focus so heavily on long-winded promos, then you can enjoy AEW. If not, it’s going to take warming to the idea that wrestling is not JUST 2 grown men talking for 15 minutes at a time.

The internet didn’t just get created and was instantly an every day part of our lives.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> A 20 minute opening promo doesn't stop the show from being a wrestling show. You can stomp your feet and yell about how you prefer more action and less talking and that's fine, but the end of the day you still like sports entertainment. Whether the drama is derived through action or words it's still drama aka soap opera shit. Fact of the matter is right now you engrossed in the shower soap opera take of Omega and Hangman that would fit right in on a CW teen drama or in a long run anime. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the wrestling you like is still a male soap opera even if it's less word heavy lol.


Omfg 

You are missing the entire principle of the TALKING. Only Vince does, and has ever done, such long-winded promos for his wrestling show. You are taking offense to the soap opera thing way too much. Of course the stories exist. They have always existed, but they need weekly 15-20 minute promos to tell them ONLY in WWE.

Stop focusing on my usage of the word soap opera, because we all love “soap opera for men” that is Prowrestling. “Sports Entertainment”, though, focuses heavily on everything but the actual wrestling itself. The wrestling is a backdrop to the show every bit as much as wrestling is a backdrop to the STARZ show, Heels.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> The WWE does “Sports Entertainment”, aka long-winded promos and backstage invisible camera stuff like you’d see in an actual television show.
> 
> AEW does wrestling, and due to the fact that those are people in the ring and we haven’t advanced to the point of goddamn robots, they have to address the human aspect of those guys in the ring. The squared-circle, though, is the star attraction.
> 
> In WWE, the main attraction is a microphone.


Its like I said - AEW - 90% wrestling / 10% promos. Matches tell the story

WWE - 50% promos, segments / 50% wrestling. The Promos tell the story

while there are similarities on paper - the execution makes them to me, wildly different products


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> This was my point, man.
> 
> If you remember when wrestling didn’t focus so heavily on long-winded promos, then you can enjoy AEW. If not, it’s going to take warming to the idea that wrestling is not JUST 2 grown men talking for 15 minutes at a time.
> 
> The internet didn’t just get created and was instantly an every day part of our lives.


[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

In a time period where people are openly acknowledged as having shorter attention spans you're seriously arguing that 

"Well it's harder to get into AEW because it's too much action, you know it doesn't have all that talking that people love more than violence"

Y'all really just be saying anything to avoid admitting the hardcore bubbles idea of what wrestling should be is just as out of touch by with the majority of folk as Vince's current idea of what wrestling should be lol 




bdon said:


> Omfg
> 
> You are missing the entire principle of the TALKING. Only Vince does, and has ever done, such long-winded promos for his wrestling show. You are taking offense to the soap opera thing way too much. Of course the stories exist. They have always existed, but they need weekly 15-20 minute promos to tell them ONLY in WWE.
> 
> Stop focusing on my usage of the word soap opera, because we all love “soap opera for men” that is Prowrestling. “Sports Entertainment”, though, focuses heavily on everything but the actual wrestling itself. The wrestling is a backdrop to the show every bit as much as wrestling is a backdrop to the STARZ show, Heels.


Nah you're taking offense that I'm pointing out you also like the sports entertainment male soap opera that is wrestling. You're trying to separate what you like into a different category, but you can't because the end of the day it's all wrestling lol . 

You're essentially a Battlefield fan desperately trying to argue that it's not a military shooter like Call of Duty, it's totally something different. 

Go out in public and try to argue

"Well see AEW is real pro wrestling because they talk less and WWE is sports entertainment because they talk more"

And see if the response isn't anything but

"Does it matter they all end up fake fighting in their underwear"


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

PS guys> don’t fall into the Rap Black Hole

that way lies madness and a 4 day week shouting about Picture in Picture    

@RapShepard lives for this shit right here   - thats why I fucks with him


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> PS guys> don’t fall into the Rap Black Hole
> 
> that way lies madness and a 4 day week shouting about Picture in Picture
> 
> @RapShepard lives for this shit right here   - thats why I fucks with him


I'm simply saying nobody sane would go Halloween isn't a slasher film like Friday the 13th, because it's kill count was 5 vs 10 for Friday the 13th.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
> 
> In a time period where people are openly acknowledged as having shorter attention spans you're seriously arguing that
> 
> "Well it's harder to get into AEW because it's too much action, you know it doesn't have all that talking that people love more than violence"
> 
> Y'all really just be saying anything to avoid admitting the hardcore bubbles idea of what wrestling should be is just as out of touch by with the majority of folk as Vince's current idea of what wrestling should be lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nah you're taking offense that I'm pointing out you also like the sports entertainment male soap opera that is wrestling. You're trying to separate what you like into a different category, but you can't because the end of the day it's all wrestling lol .
> 
> You're essentially a Battlefield fan desperately trying to argue that it's not a military shooter like Call of Duty, it's totally something different.
> 
> Go out in public and try to argue
> 
> "Well see AEW is real pro wrestling because they talk less and WWE is sports entertainment because they talk more"
> 
> And see if the response isn't anything but
> 
> "Does it matter they all end up fake fighting in their underwear"


No, I am not getting offended.

Sopranos was a character-driven drama. Fast and Furious is an action-fueled drama. They are both dramas, but people will not confuse the two for being of the same kind of television viewing experience.

Unfortunately for wrestling, Vince has bastardized what the term “wrestling” means to American-television viewing audiences. Saints Row and GTA are both open-world games with aspects of driving and shooting, but to those on the outside looking in, Saints Row would just be confused with GTA. Why? Because GTA has years of time crafting a loose idea of what that genre means to the casual audience on the outside looking in.

AEW will have to slowly gain traction in the public’s mind first and foremost. They will then have to convince that potential audience who THINKS they know what wrestling is based on their idea of the times they have watched Vince’s show and chose to not stick it out, to give THEM a try and see how much different their “sports entertainment”/wrestling/men in spandex/whatever you want to call it…is different.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> I'm simply saying nobody sane would go Halloween isn't a slasher film like Friday the 13th, because it's kill count was 5 vs 10 for Friday the 13th.


true - to the man on the street, they are similar / as is Scream

but I think we can agree, to people who know, there are vast differences between Scream and Halloween

so, I guess we have to go back to the start of this whole convo between you two and see if any of it was about ‘the casual fan’

…. I’m actually not even sure what you lads are arguing about

can we agree that ‘to casuals on the outside, there will be zero difference between WWE and AEW’ / BUT to fans / marks and smarks ‘it is quite easy to see the differences between WWE and AEW’


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> true - to the man on the street, they are similar / as is Scream
> 
> but I think we can agree, to people who know, there are vast differences between Scream and Halloween
> 
> so, I guess we have to go back to the start of this whole convo between you two and see if any of it was about ‘the casual fan’
> 
> …. I’m actually not even sure what you lads are arguing about
> 
> can we agree that ‘to casuals on the outside, there will be zero difference between WWE and AEW’ / BUT to fans / marks and smarks ‘it is quite easy to see the differences between WWE and AEW’


This is my entire point: to American viewing audiences, they hear the word “wrestling” and immediately lump everything into the box that WWE has presented “wrestling” to be for 20 years.

It is going to take time, and a growing stranglehold in the younger demos, to undo the IDEA of what wrestling is to the outsider looking in.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> No, I am not getting offended.
> 
> *Sopranos* was a character-driven drama. *Fast and Furious* is an action-fueled drama. They are both dramas, but people will not confuse the two for being of the same kind of television viewing experience.
> 
> Unfortunately for wrestling, Vince has bastardized what the term “wrestling” means to American-television viewing audiences. *Saints Row and GTA* are both open-world games with aspects of driving and shooting, but to those on the outside looking in, Saints Row would just be confused with GTA. Why? Because GTA has years of time crafting a loose idea of what that genre means to the casual audience on the outside looking in.
> 
> AEW will have to slowly gain traction in the public’s mind first and foremost. They will then have to convince that potential audience who THINKS they know what wrestling is based on their idea of the times they have watched Vince’s show and chose to not stick it out, to give THEM a try and see how much different their “sports entertainment”/wrestling/men in spandex/whatever you want to call it…is different.


Fucking Christ lol you're making a terrible point. 

Sopranos and Fast and the Furious actually are very different things you're using the false equivalence of the both have dramatic elements to make a shit point.

You bringing up GTA and Saints Row is perfect though. Saints Row was originally seen as a GTA clone, by the time you got to 3 and 4 and the soon to be reboot it had found it's own identity by going for pure absurdity. But at the end of the day nobody in the gaming industry would ever argue that GTA and Saints Row are 2 totally different genres of games. 

This whole "well you see uh folk can't get into AEW because Vince" is just ridiculous. Folk as of now just aren't flocking to it and that's okay. Maybe they'll hit something and get people into it.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> You bringing up GTA and Saints Row is perfect though. Saints Row was originally seen as a GTA clone, by the time you got to 3 and 4 and the soon to be reboot it had found it's own identity by going for pure absurdity. _But at the end of the day nobody *in the gaming industry* would ever argue that GTA and Saints Row are 2 totally different genres of games._


And who of those in the industry would say they’re the same game? Those on the outside looking in are going to have a hard time giving Saints Row a chance, because the IDEA of what those games are is molded through the prism of the much more known, GTA.

This is my goddamn point. You’re getting hung up on what words I use to describe your other show when I don’t take offense to outsiders calling wrestling a soap opera. Sure, it is, but MY point was that if AEW can figure out a way to get that POTENTIAL AUDIENCE (and I have said those two words together MULTIPLE FUCKING TIMES), then they could see that “wrestling” is not JUST what they know it to be via the few times they have come across Vince’s product.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> true - to the man on the street, they are similar / as is Scream
> 
> but I think we can agree, to people who know, there are vast differences between Scream and Halloween
> 
> so, I guess we have to go back to the start of this whole convo between you two and see if any of it was about ‘the casual fan’
> 
> …. I’m actually not even sure what you lads are arguing about
> 
> can we agree that ‘to casuals on the outside, there will be zero difference between WWE and AEW’ / BUT to fans / marks and smarks ‘it is quite easy to see the differences between WWE and AEW’


If we're going to that my argument is a simple, more people arent watching WWE, AEW, and anything else wrestling is because none of these promotions are putting on a show that the general public deems must see. Trying to blame WWE for AEW's failure to capture imagination is BS. 



bdon said:


> And who of those in the industry would say they’re the same game? Those on the outside looking in are going to have a hard time giving Saints Row a chance, because the IDEA of what those games are is molded through the prism of the much more known, GTA.
> 
> This is my goddamn point. You’re getting hung up on what words I use to describe your other show when I don’t take offense to outsiders calling wrestling a soap opera. Sure, it is, but MY point was that if AEW can figure out a way to get that POTENTIAL AUDIENCE (and I have said those two words together MULTIPLE FUCKING TIMES), then they could see that “wrestling” is not JUST what they know it to be via the few times they have come across Vince’s product.


Stop the cop out. Folk don't want to watch the type of wrestling you prefer lol. What you deem to be what wrestling should be isn't pulling folk in. You can blame everything else, but maybe just come to terms with your taste not being that attractive to the general public. This might sound crazy but maybe Vince's taste in what the public should want from wrestling and what you think the public should want from wrestling are both wrong.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> If we're going to that my argument is a simple, more people arent watching WWE, AEW, and anything else wrestling is because none of these promotions are putting on a show that the general public deems must see. Trying to blame WWE for AEW's failure to capture imagination is BS.
> 
> 
> 
> Stop the cop out. Folk don't want to watch the type of wrestling you prefer lol. What you deem to be what wrestling should be isn't pulling folk in. You can blame everything else, but maybe just come to terms with your taste not being that attractive to the general public. This might sound crazy but maybe Vince's taste in what the public should want from wrestling and what you think the public should want from wrestling are both wrong.


It isn’t a cop out. It’s a fact that not many know what AEW even is. Look at Howard fucking Stern calling it WWE, man, and that’s someone involved in the entertainment business.

When someone hears “ the music industry”, they don’t automatically think of any ONE company or entity. When someone hears “the movie industry”, they don’t automatically think of any ONE company or entity. When someone thinks of “the tech industry”, they don’t automatically think of any ONE company or entity. When someone hears “the video game industry”, they don’t think of any one company or entity.

But when someone thinks of “professional basketball”, they think of NBA. When someone thinks of “professional football”, they think of NFL despite MULTIPLE attempts by Vince, arena football, and others to change that. And when someone thinks of “Professional Wrestling”, they think of WWE, because of a monopoly that Vince McMahon created on the industry, crafting the immediate imagery of what the words “professional wrestling” would elicit.

I am not sure AEW or anyone will ever be able to undo the last 20 years of a system ran on a monopoly, but I can fucking ASSURE you if it is ever going to happen, it requires time.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> It isn’t a cop out. It’s a fact that not many know what AEW even is. Look at Howard fucking Stern calling it WWE, man, and that’s someone involved in the entertainment business.
> 
> When someone hears “ the music industry”, they don’t automatically think of any ONE company or entity. When someone hears “the movie industry”, they don’t automatically think of any ONE company or entity. When someone thinks of “the tech industry”, they don’t automatically think of any ONE company or entity. When someone hears “the video game industry”, they don’t think of any one company or entity.
> 
> But when someone thinks of “professional basketball”, they think of NBA. When someone thinks of “professional football”, they think of NFL despite MULTIPLE attempts by Vince, arena football, and others to change that. And when someone thinks of “Professional Wrestling”, they think of WWE, because of a monopoly that Vince McMahon created on the industry, crafting the immediate imagery of what the words “professional wrestling” would elicit.
> 
> I am not sure AEW or anyone will ever be able to undo the last 20 years of a system ran on a monopoly, but I can fucking ASSURE you if it is ever going to happen, it requires time.


The issue with your NBA and NFL or even hell the UFC examples would be they have those dominating presences due to having what's been determined to have the best talent in those legitimate sport fields. 

Wrestling is in a different space as it's scripted entertainment. It's not the WWE's fault that no other promotion has figured out how to produce a wrestling show that surpasses there's in decades. 

In 2021 with a billionaire ready to spends backing, prime time TV slot, and established stars on their show AEW gets no passes. Either they produce a wrestling show that people flock to more than Vince's or they don't. All the rest is just an excuse for why they aren't.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> The issue with your NBA and NFL or even hell the UFC examples would be they have those dominating presences due to having what's been determined to have the best talent in those legitimate sport fields.
> 
> Wrestling is in a different space as it's scripted entertainment. It's not the WWE's fault that no other promotion has figured out how to produce a wrestling show that surpasses there's in decades.
> 
> In 2021 with a billionaire ready to spends backing, prime time TV slot, and established stars on their show AEW gets no passes. Either they produce a wrestling show that people flock to more than Vince's or they don't. All the rest is just an excuse for why they aren't.


And yet despite contract negotiations that halted their ability to make money in 1999 and 2011, why didn’t the stars just create their own? They obviously could easily get the same level of backing and promotion. TV channels would pay out the ass for LeBron James and Steph Curry.

Or better yet, why didn’t the ABA survive? It was solely created as a means to challenge what was deemed a weak “product” in the NBA’s business of the 1960s. By ALL accounts, the ABA had the more interesting competitions. It had the biggest star, Dr J, in all of hoops.

But eventually, the NBA just swallowed the ABA, adopting its dunk contest, its flashy passing game, and even stealing Dr J.

I guess the ABA should have just worked harder.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> And yet despite contract negotiations that halted their ability to make money in 1999 and 2011, why didn’t the stars just create their own? They obviously could easily get the same level of backing and promotion. TV channels would pay out the ass for LeBron James and Steph Curry.
> 
> Or better yet, why didn’t the ABA survive? It was solely created as a means to challenge what was deemed a weak “product” in the NBA’s business of the 1960s. By ALL accounts, the ABA had the more interesting competitions. It had the biggest star, Dr J, in all of hoops.
> 
> But eventually, the NBA just swallowed the ABA, adopting its dunk contest, its flashy passing game, and even stealing Dr J.
> 
> I guess the ABA should have just worked harder.


Again you're using terrible false equivalences to try and explain why the wrestling you prefer has been less popular than the wrestling you don't like. It's crazy how in every other genre of scripted television new shows can come out and become the top in the genre, but wrestling that's just impossible.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> If we're going to that my argument is a simple, more people arent watching WWE, AEW, and anything else wrestling is because none of these promotions are putting on a show that the general public deems must see. Trying to blame WWE for AEW's failure to capture imagination is BS.


Untrue - both WWE and AEW are generally number 1 or top 3 in the ratings on their respective nights

underselling that is no bueno - they are literally better than everything on the night


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Untrue - both WWE and AEW are generally number 1 or top 3 in the ratings on their respective nights
> 
> underselling that is no bueno - they are literally better than everything on the night


Now you know I understand that I argue that they're doing better than most give credit to a lot. 

But on the high standard of "in the 90s WCW and WWF did 10 million viewers combined a night, you'd see wrestling shirts in public, and you could talk about wrestling around the water cooler" scale of popularity wrestling ain't at that level no mo


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Now you know I understand that I argue that they're doing better than most give credit to a lot.
> 
> But on the high standard of "in the 90s WCW and WWF did 10 million viewers combined a night, you'd see wrestling shirts in public, and you could talk about wrestling around the water cooler" scale of popularity wrestling ain't at that level no mo


Well then, nothing is that popular anymore if they are the best and everything else is below them

and we know that isn‘t true, because there are still popular things / so the answer must be ‘people watch different’ - which we know is true / the TV companies say as much

I swear you guys think stuff from AEW and WWE trend globally every week and its not ‘popular’

someone needs to push anybody that says ‘its not 10mil like in the 90s’ either into the 21st century or into the ocean as that is an Extremely more false equivalence argument and anything you blamed @bdon of doing

ps> and even the 90s wasn’t ‘10mil’ if you care to look


----------



## bdon

@RapShepard , you keep harping about “other television”, but movies, music, and tech don’t have one company that has ruled over the landscape for 20 years.

You might as well suggest African-Americans should “just work harder”, claiming the previous 400 years of oppression is just an excuse. They just need to try harder, eh!?


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Well then, nothing is that popular anymore if they are the best and everything else is below them
> 
> and we know that isn‘t true, because there are still popular things / so the answer must be ‘people watch different’ - which we know is true / the TV companies say as much
> 
> I swear you guys think stuff from AEW and WWE trend globally every week and its not ‘popular’
> 
> someone needs to push anybody that says ‘its not 10mil like in the 90s’ either into the 21st century or into the ocean as that is an Extremely more false equivalence argument and anything you blamed @bdon of doing
> 
> ps> and even the 90s wasn’t ‘10mil’ if you care to look


I think it's more so our hardcore bubble wishes wrestling had that Marvel movies level of notoriety again. It's that ol Star vs Mega Star thing. Omega is a star in wrestling you put him on a show anywhere wrestling is done he's going to sell out or damn near sell out the building, because wrestling fans know him. But how much cooler would it be if even the old grandma down the street who doesn't watch wrestling, but knew through her grandkids who Omega was because current wrestling was just that ingrained into current pop culture at large.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> @RapShepard , you keep harping about “other television”, but movies, music, and tech don’t have one company that has ruled over the landscape for 20 years.
> 
> You might as well suggest African-Americans should “just work harder”, claiming the previous 400 years of oppression is just an excuse. They just need to try harder, eh!?


Man's is trying to bring in slavery and systematic racism in the US government as a legitimate comparison of why the wrestling he prefers isn't more popular [emoji23]. You actually thought that, typed it out, and hit send because in your brain you really thought this was a good argument. 

Bdons wrestling preferences and the plight of black Americans, same same, but different [emoji23][emoji23].


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Man's is trying to bring in slavery and systematic racism in the US government as a legitimate comparison of why the wrestling he prefers isn't more popular [emoji23]. You actually thought that, typed it out, and hit send because in your brain you really thought this was a good argument.
> 
> Bdons wrestling preferences and the plight of black Americans, same same, but different [emoji23][emoji23].


You ignorant fuck, it has nothing to do with what I like vs what I don’t. A monopoly is a monopoly. Do you not understand the ramifications of that, and why the US government doesn’t allow it?


----------



## bdon

A History of U.S. Monopolies


Monopolies often use an unfair advantage to dominate the marketplace. Discover how the most notorious monopolies in U.S. history have shaped our nation.




www.investopedia.com





Something for you to try: reading.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> I think it's more so our hardcore bubble wishes wrestling had that Marvel movies level of notoriety again. It's that ol Star vs Mega Star thing. Omega is a star in wrestling you put him on a show anywhere wrestling is done he's going to sell out or damn near sell out the building, because wrestling fans know him. But how much cooler would it be if even the old grandma down the street who doesn't watch wrestling, but knew through her grandkids who Omega was because current wrestling was just that ingrained into current pop culture at large.


dude, its mega (star) hard to argue 2 companies selling 5k - 10k tickets 3 times a week and having 4 shows on tv, of which 3 are normally in the top 3, and who has multiple international tv deals is ‘not so popular anymore’

the old grandma is also a false equivalence - most grandmas don’t know who Billie Eilish is either. The world has changed and popularity looks different. If you can still muster a decent to above average following in today’s ADHD world, you are popular (grandma doesn’t know Drax, Thanos or Star Lord either - she does know Captain America and Superman, cause it came from her youth)

ps> the old gramdma knowing Omega doesn’t do shit, she’s not buying a ticket


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> You ignorant fuck, it has nothing to do with what I like vs what I don’t. A monopoly is a monopoly. Do you not understand the ramifications of that, and why the US government doesn’t allow it?


Except they don't and didn't have a monopoly, they just had competitors that the general public gave no fucks about until AEW.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> dude, its mega (star) hard to argue 2 companies selling 5k - 10k tickets 3 times a week and having 4 shows on tv, of which 3 are normally in the top 3, and who has multiple international tv deals is ‘not so popular anymore’
> 
> the old grandma is also a false equivalence - most grandmas don’t know who Billie Eilish is either. The world has changed and popularity looks different. If you can still muster a decent to above average following in today’s ADHD world, you are popular
> 
> ps> the old gramdma knowing Omega doesn’t do shit, she’s not buying a ticket


The point is a lot of hardcore fans wish they could talk to folk about wrestling as easy as they could something like the new Marvel movie.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> The point is a lot of hardcore fans wish they could talk to folk about wrestling as easy as they could something like the new Marvel movie.


the point is, there is no point other than to drag out a chat where you’re wrong 

Rap, we can talk about anything else… its ok 

ps> hardcore fans are chatting, hence twitter


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the point is, there is no point other than to drag out a chat where you’re wrong
> 
> Rap, we can talk about anything else… its ok
> 
> ps> hardcore fans are chatting, hence twitter


Reigns is a moderate draw and the idea it's not AEW's fault it doesn't have more fans is absurd, 2 truths [emoji2379]


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Reigns is a moderate draw and the idea it's not AEW's fault it doesn't have more fans is absurd, 2 truths [emoji2379]


OC is a moderate draw and the idea that WWE was never a monopoly is absurd, 2 more truths


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Rampage almost sold out / not being pre-taped is nice


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1455974657354604550


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> OC is a moderate draw and the idea that WWE was never a monopoly is absurd, 2 more truths


OC is definitely a moderate draw, swear to sky God I seen a few kids and adults dressing as him on my social medias

WWE wasn't a Monopoly legally, after all The Elite became millionaires without the E [emoji57]


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> OC is definitely a moderate draw, swear to sky God I seen a few kids and adults dressing as him on my social medias
> 
> WWE wasn't a Monopoly legally, after all The Elite became millionaires without the E [emoji57]


the 20 years prior to the Elite still happened brother brother 

edit> i’ve seen a ton of darby and oc on twitter for halloween


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the 20 years prior to the Elite still happened brother brother
> 
> edit> i’ve seen a ton of darby and oc on twitter for halloween


Hey now TNA made Styles, Joe, Daniels, Roode, and Eric Young at least several hundred thousandaires


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Hey now TNA made Styles, Joe, Daniels, Roode, and Eric Young at least several hundred thousandaires


tna gave them at least a livable wage, true

if the living happened in a trailer park


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> I'm saying they both produce the same shit regardless of what pretentious name they want to call it.


*My gripe is with the ALL ELITIST douchebags on social media who act like AEW is doing "real wrestling" when the Elite do dumber shit than anything on RAW. It's pure delusion and hypocrisy. *


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *My gripe is with the ALL ELITIST douchebags on social media who act like AEW is doing "real wrestling" when the Elite do dumber shit than anything on RAW. It's pure delusion and hypocrisy. *


You’re missing the point - its been said quite a few times here

dumb shit is not what makes something ’wrestling’ or ‘not wrestling’ - dumb shit has been a part of wrestling since 1906 and it won’t change any time soon

the difference is basing your shows prime focus on wrestling matches or on promos and segments

Dynamite and Rampage has almost as much live wrestling minutes on it than RAW and Smackdown combined - and while that might sound like hyperbole, its pretty close sometimes

so, its not about ‘dumb shit’ - its about ‘wrestling heavy’ vs ‘segments heavy’ shows


----------



## La Parka

The same people that say AEW isn't sports entertainment are the same people that hype up Adam Page's soap opera like storyline that he and Omega have going. 😂

WWE and AEW are very much the same genre. You can call it wrestling or you can call it sports entertainment but whatever the genre is, AEW and WWE are very much two sides of the same coin. WWE NXT UK is more focused on wrestling than any AEW show, as is 205 live. Yet you never hear AEW fans bring them up. 

This weird elitist attitude that some AEW fans have and this pathetic need to make sure everyone knows they're watching the real rasslin show is absolutely hilarious. The reality is.. if you were cool with Adam Page dressed as the marshmallow man or like the silly NWO rip off that is known as the elite, you will look like an absolute twat when you shit on WWE for doing silly garbage. 

But yeah, you guys are right. AEW is completely different than WWE...


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *My gripe is with the ALL ELITIST douchebags on social media who act like AEW is doing "real wrestling" when the Elite do dumber shit than anything on RAW. It's pure delusion and hypocrisy. *


Yes, the biggest hypocrite on here wants to call out a bunch of rational fans of the Elite online for RIGHTFULLY pointing out that this company actually focuses on PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING.

You don’t get to label those fans with those terms. It’s just extremely ironic when you say that about them.


----------



## CovidFan

AEW's obviously sports entertainment. I wonder if people who would deny such a thing are trying to defend or buy into Tony's comment about being more "sports based" (or w/e the quote was). It's not possible to do wrestling and it not be sports entertainment because just wrestling is usually boring af and definitely not meant for national television.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

La Parka said:


> The same people that say AEW isn't sports entertainment are the same people that hype up Adam Page's soap opera like storyline that he and Omega have going. 😂
> 
> WWE and AEW are very much the same genre. You can call it wrestling or you can call it sports entertainment but whatever the genre is, AEW and WWE are very much two sides of the same coin. WWE NXT UK is more focused on wrestling than any AEW show, as is 205 live. Yet you never hear AEW fans bring them up.
> 
> This weird elitist attitude that some AEW fans have and this pathetic need to make sure everyone knows they're watching the real rasslin show is absolutely hilarious. The reality is.. if you were cool with Adam Page dressed as the marshmallow man or like the silly NWO rip off that is known as the elite, you will look like an absolute twat when you shit on WWE for doing silly garbage.
> 
> But yeah, you guys are right. AEW is completely different than WWE...


Yeah, La Parka is dead on the money here. Wrestling has always been about entertainment, it started as a circus act after all. By the early 80s everyone was doing over the top soap opera cartoon stuff. Tupelo Concession Stand Brawl, Jerry Lawler getting run over by a car, Andy Kauffman, tar and feather matches, Ron Garvin wrestling in drag, wrestlers dressed as mummies, horror movie monsters being portrayed seriously etc. All that's stuff was great but how is it not sports entertainment? Lol

I mean AEW has directly ripped off several of Vince Russo's ideas as well as illustrated by those pics.

It's also completely fair to say you just don't like WWE's style of entertainment. I'd still rather watch WCW at its worst than most WWF stuff because I just prefer their sryle. Trying to disassociate wrestling from each other is silly tho. It's all entertainment.


----------



## DaSlacker

WWE and AEW are cut from the cloth in the same way WWF and WCW were. Anybody old enough to remember: Robocop, Black Scorpion, Yellow Dog, Chamber of Horrors, Arachnaman, Oz, Spn the Wheel, White Castle of Fear, Beach Blast mini movie, amnesiac Cactus Jack, Dungeon of Doom, The Yeti, Doomsday Match, Evad Sullivan, Booty Man, Glacier and Mortis, trap door Warrior, Chucky, Flair in an asylum.

Vince McMahon never held the monopoly on hokey wrestlecrap. 

Like WCW, I find AEW more palatable.


----------



## 3venflow

Most of AEW's worst sports-entertainment stuff was done a long time ago now though. Lately they've been a lot more serious and stripped down with a few exceptions like the Halloween match. That's one of the reasons I prefer recent AEW to 2020 AEW when they dabbled a lot more with the sports-entertainment tropes. It's more mature and definitely has a more sporty feel with even the rankings being used more. Most of the recent signings point to that too. Notice how they avoided The IIconics and seem to have given Braun Strowman a wide berth even though he's a bigger name than Andrade, Malakai and Fish. I'm interested to see if they sign Bray, he's smoke and mirrors guy who will test Khan's resolve to stick with high-quality pro wrestler signings (most of whom have ROH, PWG or NJPW in their past).


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

La Parka said:


> The same people that say AEW isn't sports entertainment are the same people that hype up Adam Page's soap opera like storyline that he and Omega have going. 😂
> 
> WWE and AEW are very much the same genre. You can call it wrestling or you can call it sports entertainment but whatever the genre is, AEW and WWE are very much two sides of the same coin. WWE NXT UK is more focused on wrestling than any AEW show, as is 205 live. Yet you never hear AEW fans bring them up.
> 
> This weird elitist attitude that some AEW fans have and this pathetic need to make sure everyone knows they're watching the real rasslin show is absolutely hilarious. The reality is.. if you were cool with Adam Page dressed as the marshmallow man or like the silly NWO rip off that is known as the elite, you will look like an absolute twat when you shit on WWE for doing silly garbage.
> 
> But yeah, you guys are right. AEW is completely different than WWE...
> 
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why do you lads always scrounge around for the smallest of ‘soap opera’ moments in AEW as if you‘re making some smart point?

nobody says there is no ‘wacky stuff’ - we’re just saying the main focus in aew is the matches and in wwe the main focus is the promos - where is the lie?

in fact, YOU guys say the same thing

1. ‘All the matches are 15min to 20min’
2. ‘they’re making everybody look too good, no squashes’
3. ‘They need more promos’

now what is too hard to grasp here? AEW is majority matches with promos the bridge. WWE is majority promos with matches the bridge

look no further than the whole ‘queen of the ring’ tournament getting less tv wrestling minutes than Shida v Deeb 1

that is the WHOLE tournament - all the matches. And people try and tell me ‘this shit is the same’

fucking hell 🤦‍♂️


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

CovidFan said:


> AEW's obviously sports entertainment. I wonder if people who would deny such a thing are trying to defend or buy into Tony's comment about being more "sports based" (or w/e the quote was). It's not possible to do wrestling and it not be sports entertainment because just wrestling is usually boring af and definitely not meant for national television.


sports entertainment does not exist - its a made up term

there’s only pro wrestling


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

La Parka said:


> The same people that say AEW isn't sports entertainment are the same people that hype up Adam Page's soap opera like storyline that he and Omega have going. 😂
> 
> WWE and AEW are very much the same genre. You can call it wrestling or you can call it sports entertainment but whatever the genre is, AEW and WWE are very much two sides of the same coin. WWE NXT UK is more focused on wrestling than any AEW show, as is 205 live. Yet you never hear AEW fans bring them up.
> 
> This weird elitist attitude that some AEW fans have and this pathetic need to make sure everyone knows they're watching the real rasslin show is absolutely hilarious. The reality is.. if you were cool with Adam Page dressed as the marshmallow man or like the silly NWO rip off that is known as the elite, you will look like an absolute twat when you shit on WWE for doing silly garbage.
> 
> But yeah, you guys are right. AEW is completely different than WWE...
> 
> View attachment 111281
> View attachment 111282
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 111283
> 
> 
> View attachment 111284
> 
> 
> View attachment 111285
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> 
> View attachment 111286
> 
> View attachment 111287
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 111288


*I was just about to go on a rant about the knockoff segments to @LifeInCattleClass before you posted this. This post encompasses the hypocritical nonsense within the AEW fanbase. We were promised SPORTS BASED ENTERTAINMENT yet just got Sports Entertainment with even more useless matches.*


----------



## CovidFan

LifeInCattleClass said:


> sports entertainment does not exist - its a made up term
> 
> there’s only pro wrestling


Amateur wrestling exists.
Pro wrestling (meaning wrestling between the ropes, not segments nor storylines) is an extension of amateur wrestling.
Sports entertainment is an extension of professional wrestling.

But I won't try to convince you or others and fight to the death because I don't care. That's jmo


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *I was just about to go on a rant about the knockoff segments to @LifeInCattleClass before you posted this. This post encompasses the hypocritical nonsense within the AEW fanbase. We were promised SPORTS BASED ENTERTAINMENT yet just got Sports Entertainment with even more useless matches.*


huh? Why tag me?

you can count on one hand the non-match based ‘silly things’ in AEW since the start

you’d need ten fingers and ten toes from ten skanky hoes to count all the WWE ‘silly things’ that is not match based just this year

and why even argue - that is the stuff the WWE audience loves. Its what makes them billions. I’m not sure what you lads are defending even


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

CovidFan said:


> Amateur wrestling exists.
> Pro wrestling (meaning wrestling between the ropes, not segments) is an extension of amateur wrestling.
> Sports entertainment is an extension of professional wrestling.
> 
> But I won't try to convince you or others and fight to the death because I don't care. That's jmo


whu? Sports entertainment is a vince-ism / his own creation to coin and own the phrase for his own purposes

all the wrestlers say what they are doing is ‘pro wrestling’ - so, lets just believe the pros shall we?


----------



## CovidFan

LifeInCattleClass said:


> whu? Sports entertainment is a vince-ism / his own creation to coin and own the phrase for his own purposes


I was just saying what I think Vince means and I agree with it.

When Hulk took the stand against Vince in 1994, do you know how he described his employment? "I'm self employed as an entertainer". Not a professional wrestler. So I'm gonna go with Hulk's explanation instead of people who want to big themselves up.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

CovidFan said:


> I was just saying what I think Vince means and I agree with it.
> 
> When Hulk took the stand against Vince in 1994, do you know how he described his employment? "I'm self employed as an entertainer". Not a professional wrestler. So I'm gonna go with Hulk's explanation instead of people who want to big themselves up.


lol, ok - you agree with Vince

I’ll agree with the rest of the world outside WWE and we can shake hands and leave it there?


----------



## Big Booty Bex

Lads, please. No arguing on Bex day.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Big Booty Bex said:


> Lads, please. No arguing on Bex day.


no arguing on Bex day


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> huh? Why tag me?
> 
> you can count on one hand the non-match based ‘silly things’ in AEW since the start
> 
> you’d need ten fingers and ten toes from ten skanky hoes to count all the WWE ‘silly things’ that is not match based just this year
> 
> and why even argue - that is the stuff the WWE audience loves. Its what makes them billions. I’m not sure what you lads are defending even


*We are arguing that AEW is very much Sports Entertainment. Less promos doesn't mean that it's not. You just have more wrestling on top of the goofy shit. You are only lying to yourself if you think I can't name more than 5 stupid ass segments that don't involve a wrestling match. I can make the list exclusively Elite nonsense and exceed that.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *We are arguing that AEW is very much Sports Entertainment. Less promos doesn't mean that it's not. You just have more wrestling on top of the goofy shit. You are only lying to yourself if you think I can't name more than 5 stupid ass segments outside of wrestling. I can make the list exclusively Elite nonsense and exceed that.*


sorry, no arguing on Bex day


----------



## DaSlacker

3venflow said:


> Most of AEW's worst sports-entertainment stuff was done a long time ago now though. Lately they've been a lot more serious and stripped down with a few exceptions like the Halloween match. That's one of the reasons I prefer recent AEW to 2020 AEW when they dabbled a lot more with the sports-entertainment tropes. It's more mature and definitely has a more sporty feel with even the rankings being used more. Most of the recent signings point to that too. Notice how they avoided The IIconics and seem to have given Braun Strowman a wide berth even though he's a bigger name than Andrade, Malakai and Fish. I'm interested to see if they sign Bray, he's smoke and mirrors guy who will test Khan's resolve to stick with high-quality pro wrestler signings (most of whom have ROH, PWG or NJPW in their past).


They deserve a LOT of leeway between March 2020 and June 2021. Especially 2020. Empty arenas, masks, social distancing and no touring was unchartered territory for pro wrestling. Especially for a company that had only just started less than year earlier and signed a deal to produce live, big budget content every week. At the same time they were placed head to head with a same genre show.


----------



## La Parka

LifeInCattleClass said:


> why do you lads always scrounge around for the smallest of ‘soap opera’ moments in AEW as if you‘re making some smart point?
> 
> nobody says there is no ‘wacky stuff’ - we’re just saying the main focus in aew is the matches and in wwe the main focus is the promos - where is the lie?
> 
> in fact, YOU guys say the same thing
> 
> 1. ‘All the matches are 15min to 20min’
> 2. ‘they’re making everybody look too good, no squashes’
> 3. ‘They need more promos’
> 
> now what is too hard to grasp here? AEW is majority matches with promos the bridge. WWE is majority promos with matches the bridge
> 
> look no further than the whole ‘queen of the ring’ tournament getting less tv wrestling minutes than Shida v Deeb 1
> 
> that is the WHOLE tournament - all the matches. And people try and tell me ‘this shit is the same’
> 
> fucking hell 🤦‍♂️


Just because a company has more promos than in ring matches does not make them anymore sports entertainment than a company that literally has had multiple cinematic movies during its wrestling ppv. 

You are cherry picking one tournament and ignoring other WWE tournaments. The NXT UK Hertiage cup tournament had a handful of long matches.


----------



## bdon

La Parka said:


> The same people that say AEW isn't sports entertainment are the same people that hype up Adam Page's soap opera like storyline that he and Omega have going. 😂
> 
> WWE and AEW are very much the same genre. You can call it wrestling or you can call it sports entertainment but whatever the genre is, AEW and WWE are very much two sides of the same coin. WWE NXT UK is more focused on wrestling than any AEW show, as is 205 live. Yet you never hear AEW fans bring them up.
> 
> This weird elitist attitude that some AEW fans have and this pathetic need to make sure everyone knows they're watching the real rasslin show is absolutely hilarious. The reality is.. if you were cool with Adam Page dressed as the marshmallow man or like the silly NWO rip off that is known as the elite, you will look like an absolute twat when you shit on WWE for doing silly garbage.
> 
> But yeah, you guys are right. AEW is completely different than WWE...
> 
> View attachment 111281
> View attachment 111282
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 111283
> 
> 
> View attachment 111284
> 
> 
> View attachment 111285
> 
> 
> View attachment 111286
> 
> View attachment 111287
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 111288


Show me the weekly hour and 15 minutes of talking…


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> why do you lads always scrounge around for the smallest of ‘soap opera’ moments in AEW as if you‘re making some smart point?
> 
> nobody says there is no ‘wacky stuff’ - we’re just saying the main focus in aew is the matches and in wwe the main focus is the promos - where is the lie?
> 
> in fact, YOU guys say the same thing
> 
> 1. ‘All the matches are 15min to 20min’
> 2. ‘they’re making everybody look too good, no squashes’
> 3. ‘They need more promos’
> 
> now what is too hard to grasp here? AEW is majority matches with promos the bridge. WWE is majority promos with matches the bridge
> 
> look no further than the whole ‘queen of the ring’ tournament getting less tv wrestling minutes than Shida v Deeb 1
> 
> that is the WHOLE tournament - all the matches. And people try and tell me ‘this shit is the same’
> 
> fucking hell 🤦‍♂️


They’re fucking idiots. That’s the problem. They can’t see what you just explained.


----------



## La Parka

bdon said:


> Show me the weekly hour and 15 minutes of talking…


Yes.

Lets ignore the context of all the shows and only go by match time! Who cares that Matt Hardy teleported! How LONG WAS THE MATCH!

Stick to talking about Cody because you're completely out of your league when it comes to anything else. You say you haven't watched wrestling since WCW died and it shows...


----------



## bdon

La Parka said:


> Yes.
> 
> Lets ignore the context of all the shows and only go by match time! Who cares that Matt Hardy teleported! How LONG WAS THE MATCH!
> 
> Stick to talking about Cody because you're completely out of your league when it comes to anything else. You say you haven't watched wrestling since WCW died and it shows...


Go back to your other name, Cultaholic.


----------



## La Parka

bdon said:


> Go back to your other name, Cultaholic.


go back to a British wrestling youtube channel?


----------



## Dr. Middy

Both companies are inherently sports entertainment based, it should be easy to agree on that honestly. And both of them share plenty of similarities. 

But the biggest difference in regards to pro wrestling itself is that AEW happily embraces that it's main calling card is pro wrestling, and doesn't shy away from it ever. The whole reason sports entertainment as a term really became a common descriptor is WWE, and it's because they want, for some reason, to be ashamed to be involved with pro wrestling as a whole. Just look at how Vince treats the idea of pro wrestling, with him not wanting to even mention wrestling on his show.


----------



## yeahright2

Dr. Middy said:


> Both companies are inherently sports entertainment based, it should be easy to agree on that honestly. And both of them share plenty of similarities.
> 
> But the biggest difference in regards to pro wrestling itself is that AEW happily embraces that it's main calling card is pro wrestling, and doesn't shy away from it ever. The whole reason sports entertainment as a term really became a common descriptor is WWE, and it's because they want, for some reason, to be ashamed to be involved with pro wrestling as a whole. Just look at how Vince treats the idea of pro wrestling, with him not wanting to even mention wrestling on his show.


Well, the term "sports entertainment" was coined partly as a way to get out of the state regulations regarding the talent, and as a way to sound better for potential sponsors. It´s not because they´re ashamed of pro wrestling, it was marketing and money.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1456349720289464321

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite ratings*

Viewership: 878,000
18-49: 0.32

Not great. You'd have hoped for an increase from last week. The demo drop (-20%) is more concerning than viewership drop (-6.7%).


----------



## kazarn

Yeah that's terrible now matter how much you spin it. The momentum has worn off.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Those Saturday shows have really hurt their momentum.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*AEW is back to Wednesday Night Wars numbers. The show was pretty good tbh. Granted, I left as soon as I saw Cody and Andrade on my TV. *

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1456349720289464321


----------



## RainmakerV2

No one outside the smark bubble gives a shit about Hangman Page and they've reduced Punk to nothing.


----------



## La Parka

I blame the World Series.

I know it’s been over for days but you have to think people were still hoping that the players would come out and play another game.

Also, it was quite chilly in Chicago last night, so you have to assume people were all at the hot chocolate store last night.

and don’t get me started on the rerun of Seinfeld that was playing last night.

AEW will recover from this when there isn’t as much going on.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RainmakerV2 said:


> No one outside the smark bubble gives a shit about Hangman Page and they've reduced Punk to nothing.


*Facts. They should've given Bryan the title while he was hot.*


----------



## 3venflow

#6 on cable last night. NBA took the top two spots unsurprisingly. I think it's the first time Challenge has beaten Dynamite on Wednesday since it returned. AEW did very well in males 18-49, but lost a number of 50+ viewers and I think females.


----------



## RainmakerV2

The Legit DMD said:


> *Facts. They should've given Bryan the title while he was hot.*



Exactly. He did one of the biggest numbers in company history. After the draw with Omega you announce a 30 min Ironman rematch with him for Full Gear where there must be a winner and you go from there. Instead this company is so up its ass with "longterm storytelling " they have no idea how to capitalize on something that's hot. Instead they have Punk fighting Matt Sydal on Rampage. Jesus.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Oh shit...i will return to this thread next week. This was just awful


----------



## Jbardo37

Not good, the momentum from signing Punk and Bryan has gone a little. They need hot feuds and fast.


----------



## bdon

I can’t wait for them to be off TNT.

Stability matters in an ADHD, “everything and anything all of the time” entertainment climate.


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> Exactly. He did one of the biggest numbers in company history. After the draw with Omega you announce a 30 min Ironman rematch with him for Full Gear where there must be a winner and you go from there. Instead this company is so up its ass with "longterm storytelling " they have no idea how to capitalize on something that's hot. Instead they have Punk fighting Matt Sydal on Rampage. Jesus.


Okay, why in the HELL should they abandon this long-term storyline with Adam Page fulfilling his redemption against Kenny Omega?

Screwing up his character arch for hot-shot booking is an awful creative decision.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RainmakerV2 said:


> Exactly. He did one of the biggest numbers in company history. After the draw with Omega you announce a 30 min Ironman rematch with him for Full Gear where there must be a winner and you go from there. Instead this company is so up its ass with "longterm storytelling " they have no idea how to capitalize on something that's hot. Instead they have Punk fighting Matt Sydal on Rampage. Jesus.


*People kept telling us Punk's booking is fine though. People kept telling us being a happy go lucky babyface wouldn't decrease interest. That "we'll be beating RAW by January" prediction looks funnier every week.*


----------



## Joe Gill

not surprised.... TK doesnt know what the hell he is doing. He milked CM Punk with all those pointless matches on Rampage during a death timeslot... and there is very little build for full gear other than Darby and MJF. Its absurd that Page and Omega havent even had a face to face on the mic yet. You would think that with a 2 year build they would have a lot of shit to get off their chests...but nope... TK instead wants Dork Order involved. All of this new talent and they have no real proper feuds that are must see tv. TK needs to hire a proper booker. He only knows how to do OCD giant clusterfuck booking that changes every week and involves too many wrestlers.... or long term story telling that is so subtle and drawn out that only the biggest AEW nerds can follow. TK is going to go down as one of the worst bookers in wrestling history.


----------



## RainmakerV2

DammitChrist said:


> Okay, why in the HELL should they abandon this long-term storyline with Adam Page fulfilling his redemption against Kenny Omega?
> 
> Screwing up his character arch for hot-shot booking is an awful creative decision.



Because no one outside the little smark bubble you live in gives a fuck about Adam Pages redemption story.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1456349720289464321
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


that’s shit - any theories as to why?


----------



## Garty

It's lower, as it will be for a while, due to the show now being live on both the East and West coast of the US. They'll likely stay around this mark for a few weeks, until the habit of watching it live on the West coast at 5PM sticks. I think TNT made a mistake in doing this, but it's the NHL TV schedule that dictated the move. Once they move to TBS in January, I would hope that they're put back on the 3-hour time delay for the West coast. It cannot stay this way.

As with last week, being the first week of live coast-to-coast, these are factors, not excuses.


----------



## 3venflow

Demo was apparently 0.33 not 0.32 although it doesn't affect Dynamite's position on cable.


----------



## Joe Gill

DammitChrist said:


> Okay, why in the HELL should they abandon this long-term storyline with Adam Page fulfilling his redemption against Kenny Omega?
> 
> Screwing up his character arch for hot-shot booking is awful booking.


Hangmans storyline has been so poorly executed... he basically did jackshit gor 6 months prior to his return. No one really cares about his affiliation with dark order. There is too much indy crap on this show that only appeals to a select audience. If TK is going to only pander to them then there is no point wasting money signing guys like punk and bryan if you arent going to get the most out of them with major feuds.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> #6 on cable last night. NBA took the top two spots unsurprisingly. I think it's the first time Challenge has beaten Dynamite on Wednesday since it returned. AEW did very well in males 18-49, but lost a number of 50+ viewers and I think females.
> 
> View attachment 111346


no bueno

oh well, guess this thread’ll be a shitshow for the next week

lol


----------



## PavelGaborik

Terrible rating.

Clearly I'm not the only one who's cold on the Hangman/Kenny feud.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Well that number is just bad. No if, ands, or buts about it.

Realistically while I liked the show, nothing on it seemed like a must see in regards to any matches or segments really. They should hopefully be doing a big go home show next week for Full Gear. Really I'd do a big face to face angle with Omega and Page you build to for next week.

The only difference I could see that would actually me a viable reason here is the West Coast time change. Airing live at 5pm on the West Coast certainty isn't ideal.


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> Because no one outside the little smark bubble you live in gives a fuck about Adam Pages redemption story.


Yea, this post won’t age well at all in 9 days.

I’ll just leave that out there.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

@bdon - i think its because of the long 20min wwe-like promo that Jericho cut that it fell

agreed?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> no bueno
> 
> oh well, guess this thread’ll be a shitshow for the next week
> 
> lol


*See you on Monday when the Rampage rating drops 😆*


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Damn only 247,000 more viewers than "catastrophic failure NXT 2.0 with bad wrestling on a development show that doesn't appeal to anyone." Sorry couldn't resist. 

Anyways, bdon is right that stability matters to the average viewer.

Still....seems to be another case of AEW unable to retain momentum coming off the huge Punk and Danielson signing 2 months ago. They clearly seem to have their audience just like TNA did when people made fun of them for years over fluctuating at a 1.0 that never increased. At least more people buy AEW's product by a substantial margin lol


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> @bdon - i think its because of the long 20min wwe-like promo that Jericho cut that it fell
> 
> agreed?


Agreed. Punk and Jericho doing too much talky, talky, talky stuff. Made the AEW fans say “fuck this”.


----------



## Majmo_Mendez

RainmakerV2 said:


> No one outside the smark bubble gives a shit about Hangman Page and they've reduced Punk to nothing.


The irony of this post coming from a Karrion Kross mark


----------



## DammitChrist

Yes, NXT 2.0 is a major flop.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Anyway, should I start digging the grave for AEW or something now?


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Dr. Middy said:


> Anyway, should I start digging the grave for AEW or something now?


Yeah it's over. Pack it up, boys.


----------



## rbl85

I love all the dumbass shitting on AEW when it could very well just be that ther show being live on the west coast is backfiring.

Basically the show start when people are either still at work or they have just finished work.


----------



## bdon

Yeah. Every time AEW garners momentum, they get bumped to a Saturday or a weird fucking time. The Wood always said this, and it was by far his most poignant point about wrestling and AEW: do NOT trust the execs to not fuck this 

Yes, he didn’t like AEW and felt betrayed by their comedic side, but he ALWAYS admitted that they could do things right, even grow the rating possibly, and STILL have some dumb fuck TV execs get too smart and start moving times and dates of the show.

There is a reason Sopranos, Game of Thrones, the nightly news, and others are kept on their specific times. It works for the viewer.

TK needs to get out from under TNT’s umbrella ASAP.


----------



## CovidFan

This number doesn't seem good.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Majmo_Mendez said:


> The irony of this post coming from a Karrion Kross mark



Um, yeah, what does that have to do with anything?


rbl85 said:


> I love all the dumbass shitting on AEW when it could very well just be that ther show being live on the west coast is backfiring.
> 
> Basically the show start when people are either still at work or they have just finished work.



All live TV is like that. How many exceptions does AEW get to make you feel better?


----------



## rbl85

It's not possible to put the show at 8pm on the west coast ?


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> Um, yeah, what does that have to do with anything?
> 
> 
> *All live TV is like that. *How many exceptions does AEW get to make you feel better?


It's only the 2nd week that AEW is live on the west coast and i don't think any other wrestling show is live on the west coast.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

rbl85 said:


> I love all the dumbass shitting on AEW when it could very well just be that ther show being live on the west coast is backfiring.


Bro these numbers always fluctuate wildly and they still haven't topped their debut. Most are just having a bit of banter and fun lol. They have their audience but there really isn't much to talk about in this thread. When AEW tops their debut number and genuinely grows their television audience, there'll be juicy stuff to talk about. 

tldr these ratings don't really matter.


----------



## Majmo_Mendez

RainmakerV2 said:


> Um, yeah, what does that have to do with anything?
> 
> 
> All live TV is like that. How many exceptions does AEW get to make you feel better?


Atleast smarks give a shit about Page. Nobody gives a flying fuck about that geek Kross. Never did, never will.


----------



## Garty

rbl85 said:


> I love all the dumbass shitting on AEW when it could very well just be that ther show being live on the west coast is backfiring.


That's exactly the reason. I wrote that on the previous page top post, but people will still see it as another excuse. 

If they want an "excuse", how about... _everyone knew that Moxley wasn't going to be on the show and figured they were just going to give Cassidy the pass, going right to the final against Danielson at Full Gear, so there was no reason to watch._

See how that works people... that's an excuse, not a factor.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Majmo_Mendez said:


> Atleast smarks give a shit about Page. Nobody gives a flying fuck about that geek Kross. Never did, never will.


Kross is a geek but you seem defensive about a show with the Bucks and goofs like Luchasauras and the Dark Order. Kay. Ya got me. For sure.


----------



## 3venflow

bdon said:


> Agreed. Punk and Jericho doing too much talky, talky, talky stuff. Made the AEW fans say “fuck this”.


You may or may not be joking, but fact is good wrestling matches/shows have drawn generally well for AEW. This week's Dynamite was heavier on the segments/PPV storylines than the usual Dynamite and only one match hit 10 minutes.

They will hope the pattern follows last time they were shifted to Friday/Saturdays. They didn't hit a million for the two weeks that followed, then did so regularly starting with Fyter Fest night 1. Dunno if this west coast thing is going to have a lasting effect on the ratings though.


----------



## ThunderNitro

Time to cancel my Fite TV subscription!


----------



## ripcitydisciple

rbl85 said:


> I love all the dumbass shitting on AEW when it could very well just be that ther show being live on the west coast is backfiring.
> 
> Basically the show start when people are either still at work* or they have just finished work.*


Like me. I am on my way home during that time.


----------



## ProjectGargano

ThunderNitro said:


> Time to cancel my Fite TV subscription!


Why?


----------



## rbl85

3venflow said:


> You may or may not be joking, but fact is good wrestling matches/shows have drawn generally well for AEW. This week's Dynamite was heavier on the segments/PPV storylines than the usual Dynamite and only one match hit 10 minutes.
> 
> They will hope the pattern follows last time they were shifted to Friday/Saturdays. They didn't hit a million for the two weeks that followed, then did so regularly starting with Fyter Fest night 1. Dunno if this west coast thing is going to have a lasting effect on the ratings though.


You can put any match or segment you want the problem here is that a good amount of viewers can't physically watch the show.


----------



## Dr. Middy

Excuses, excuses.

It's a bad number, and I bet it gets worse. People don't want indy geeks doing a shitty cosplay match or pockets actually having a competitive match with their resident monster in Miro. And realistically, there isn't a ton of excitement for Page since he doesn't talk and isn't really much of a charisma guy. You got plenty of other guys yet you're gonna throw the title on him. IDK.

It'll be fine though. Tony will sign more guys for a couple easy pops, and the roster will end up more bloated then ever. Geeks are really gonna vote Tony Khan for best booker too. Fucking morons.


----------



## rbl85

Dr. Middy said:


> Excuses, excuses.
> 
> It's a bad number, and I bet it gets worse. People don't want indy geeks doing a shitty cosplay match or pockets actually having a competitive match with their resident monster in Miro. And realistically, there isn't a ton of excitement for Page since he doesn't talk and isn't really much of a charisma guy. You got plenty of other guys yet you're gonna throw the title on him. IDK.
> 
> It'll be fine though. Tony will sign more guys for a couple easy pops, and the roster will end up more bloated then ever. Geeks are really gonna vote Tony Khan for best booker too. Fucking morons.


What do you bet ?


----------



## DammitChrist

Majmo_Mendez said:


> Atleast smarks give a shit about Page. Nobody gives a flying fuck about that geek Kross. Never did, never will.


Yep, I think way more folks care about Kyle O’Reilly over Karrion Kross too


----------



## Dr. Middy

rbl85 said:


> What do you bet ?


How bout 3 vials of smark tears?


----------



## DammitChrist

ProjectGargano said:


> Why?


I think that was just playful sarcasm.


----------



## ThunderNitro

ProjectGargano said:


> Why?


I had such high hopes for AEW and now the sky is falling!


----------



## rbl85

Dr. Middy said:


> How bout 3 vials of smark tears?


Only 3 ?!!!!!


----------



## Dr. Middy

rbl85 said:


> Only 3 ?!!!!!


Sorry wrong measurement.

Meant to say full size oil tanker ships.


----------



## rbl85

Dr. Middy said:


> Sorry wrong measurement.
> 
> Meant to say full size oil tanker ships.


Now we're talking


----------



## .christopher.

People defended Bryan and Punk's booking when it was obvious they were being AEW'd in that they were having their momentum and buzz killed almost instantly by shitty booking.

People defended Page being number 1 contender despite him being nothing special, being associated with the lamest stable of all time, and being in one of the poorest booked feuds of all time. Long term storytelling my arse.

Proof is in the numbers. Fuck Page off as he's a jabroni, get the title off that geek Omega and onto an actual name in Bryan, and have Punk in some proper feuds with actual talent. All of that was as obvious as me knowing they'd fuck up those two signings from the get go.


----------



## RainmakerV2

There's always an excuse. It's the world series, it's the NBA, it's the west coast, it's the challenge, oh there was a big news story.

The fact is most of you sound like yes men to Tony Khan the way you all complain about Vinces yes men. Instead of going " Hey, we just signed Punk and Bryan and went from 1.4 mil to 800K in a month..maybe something isn't clicking "..it's the same old excuses. 

Fact is, most of the show is booked like WCW 2000, but since there's "good wrestling matches" in between that Meltzer tells you are good, it gets a pass. Sting coming down with 4 skinny dudes in masks who all of a sudden take out Wardlow and Shawn Spears like it's nothing, a bunch of crowd brawling for the sake of it, doing conchair tos to 150 pound dudes and having them come back 2 days later like it's nothing, a lot of it is just nonsensical violence for the sake of it. After a while that gets old. You've seen it all. Add to that that you've literally taken anything special Punk had away from him, and you have issues.


But no, lets just find another excuse because there's no way Tony Khan could just be fucking up. It's impossible. He's a genius. Meltzer said so.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

878 is really bad honestly. I hate the day jumping.


----------



## DammitChrist

.christopher. said:


> People defended Bryan and Punk's booking when it was obvious they were being AEW'd in that they were having their momentum and buzz killed almost instantly by shitty booking.
> 
> People defended Page being number 1 contender despite him being nothing special, being associated with the lamest stable of all time, and being in one of the poorest booked feuds of all time. Long term storytelling my arse.
> 
> Proof is in the numbers. Fuck Page off as he's a jabroni, get the title off that geek Omega and onto an actual name in Bryan, and have Punk in some proper feuds with actual talent. All of that was as obvious as me knowing they'd fuck up those two signings from the get go.


Kenny Omega and Adam Page are completely worthy of being in the main-event scene too.


----------



## rbl85

The next 2 weeks will be up


----------



## Joe Gill

.christopher. said:


> People defended Bryan and Punk's booking when it was obvious they were being AEW'd in that they were having their momentum and buzz killed almost instantly by shitty booking.
> 
> People defended Page being number 1 contender despite him being nothing special, being associated with the lamest stable of all time, and being in one of the poorest booked feuds of all time. Long term storytelling my arse.
> 
> Proof is in the numbers. Fuck Page off as he's a jabroni, get the title off that geek Omega and onto an actual name in Bryan, and have Punk in some proper feuds with actual talent. All of that was as obvious as me knowing they'd fuck up those two signings from the get go.


its so obvious but people prefer to play mental gymnastics and pretend everything is great and more people would have watched if it wasnt for (insert excuse).
What has TK done to suggest he is a good booker? He has no talent or experience, literally just a son of a billionaire who happens to be a wrestling nerd. Why are fans pretending like Adam Page has been booked properly. When CM Punk signed was there any fans that said to themselves "I cant wait for friday 10pm to see Punk beat some jobber its gonna be epic". When Miro signed with AEW did any fan say "wouldnt it be great if Miro randomly is best friends with Kip Sabian and they play video games for a year?" yet this is the bullshit that TK gives us and yet some fans keep defending it. Its quite pathetic.


----------



## Top bins

Very very disappointing. Tony Khan has to think he can't book TV shows. He can be like the Vince McMahon and hire a booker to do the job. Tony doesn't know what he's doing booking wise. He truly needs to wake up before ratings go down further.


----------



## Seafort

kazarn said:


> Yeah that's terrible now matter how much you spin it. The momentum has worn off.


Absolutely. This has happened at least twice before. We’re in a period right now where their programming just feels skippable. There needs to be more character building IMO.


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> There's always an excuse. It's the world series, it's the NBA, it's the west coast, it's the challenge, oh there was a big news story.
> 
> The fact is most of you sound like yes men to Tony Khan the way you all complain about Vinces yes men. Instead of going *" Hey, we just signed Punk and Bryan and went from 1.4 mil to 800K in a month..maybe something isn't clicking ".*.it's the same old excuses.
> 
> Fact is, most of the show is booked like WCW 2000, but since there's "good wrestling matches" in between that Meltzer tells you are good, it gets a pass. Sting coming down with 4 skinny dudes in masks who all of a sudden take out Wardlow and Shawn Spears like it's nothing, a bunch of crowd brawling for the sake of it, doing conchair tos to 150 pound dudes and having them come back 2 days later like it's nothing, a lot of it is just nonsensical violence for the sake of it. After a while that gets old. You've seen it all. Add to that that you've literally taken anything special Punk had away from him, and you have issues.
> 
> 
> But no, lets just find another excuse because there's no way Tony Khan could just be fucking up. It's impossible. He's a genius. Meltzer said so.


You obviously don't know what an actual "excuse" really is since other folks on here have already provided valid reasons and factors for the numbers post-Saturday move.

It sounds like you're just projecting your over-the-top frustrations on to others simply because you're bothered by folks enjoying the entertaining product. You should probably take care of that 

Anyway, nah, we shouldn't admit any of that bolded nonsense.


----------



## Dr. Middy

.christopher. said:


> People defended Bryan and Punk's booking when it was obvious they were being AEW'd in that they were having their momentum and buzz killed almost instantly by shitty booking.
> 
> People defended Page being number 1 contender despite him being nothing special, being associated with the lamest stable of all time, and being in one of the poorest booked feuds of all time. Long term storytelling my arse.
> 
> Proof is in the numbers. Fuck Page off as he's a jabroni, get the title off that geek Omega and onto an actual name in Bryan, and have Punk in some proper feuds with actual talent. All of that was as obvious as me knowing they'd fuck up those two signings from the get go.


They defend it because they think since its AEW, Tony is like this god figure and savior of pro wrestling, so anything he does is going to be amazing. In reality, if Punk was going to be nothing more than midcard match fodder with some promos sucking AEW's dick, I wish he would have never come back. 

Bryan is gonna end up losing to Page too when he's pretty much ten times better than both Page and Omega at everything.

But what do you expect from a giant mark who knows nothing in Tony Khan?


----------



## rbl85

Top bins said:


> Very very disappointing. Tony Khan has to think he can't book TV shows. He can be like the Vince McMahon and hire a booker to do the job. Tony doesn't know what he's doing booking wise. He truly needs to wake up before ratings go down further.


WTF are you talking about ?


----------



## iarwain

The wrestling in AEW is top notch, but the storytelling leaves a little to be desired. If they're going to improve, I think it needs to be in that area.


----------



## DammitChrist

Joe Gill said:


> its so obvious but people prefer to play mental gymnastics and pretend everything is great and more people would have watched if it wasnt for (insert excuse).
> What has TK done to suggest he is a good booker? He has no talent or experience, literally just a son of a billionaire who happens to be a wrestling nerd. Why are fans pretending like Adam Page has been booked properly. When CM Punk signed was there any fans that said to themselves "I cant wait for friday 10pm to see Punk beat some jobber its gonna be epic". When Miro signed with AEW did any fan say "wouldnt it be great if Miro randomly is best friends with Kip Sabian and they play video games for a year?" yet this is the bullshit that TK gives us and yet some fans keep defending it. Its quite pathetic.


Nah, it's actually quite pathetic to be upset considering how much of a threat Miro is now, and to be this impatient over CM Punk eventually working his way back to the top (since he's been away for 7.5 years). He's still one of the most over acts on the show too.


----------



## Geeee

Shit rating, so I'm gonna theorize that Matt Hardy is the problem because he made a brief appearance in the main event and he's probably my personal least favorite part of AEW programming.

This is what we're doing, right?


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

RainmakerV2 said:


> Fact is, most of the show is booked like WCW 2000,


As the resident WCW 2000 expert, not even close. Nobody can top that madness unless Khan falls in a vat at Ace Chemicals. 

Sorry I couldn't resist talking about it ×___×


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I’ve been listening to the Death of WCW audibook the last couple of days

and i came across a funny bit - before the ‘83 Weeks’ - WCW actually beat WWE in the ratings quite a few times

people just didn’t notice it, as success in wrestling was not measured by ratings at the time, but rather tickets sold and PPVs sold (ratings only became a ‘thing’ in the “war”)

So…. I’m returning to that era - bums in seats and PPV sales says AEW is a massive success, demo be damned!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

oh look! 82% sold for Rampage! What a successful week!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1455974657354604550


----------



## RainmakerV2

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, it's actually quite pathetic to be upset considering how much of a threat Miro is now, and to be this impatient over CM Punk eventually working his way back to the top (since he's been away for 7.5 years). He's still one of the most over acts on the show too.


That long term storytelling shit is so overused and outdated. That stuff may have worked in the 80s and 90s and it may work in Japan, but it doesn't work anymore in America. People have thousands of channels to choose from now. There's Netflix, Hulu, pirating sites, etc. Americans are more ADHD then ever. No casual who tuned in for Punk wants to wait 7 or 8 months for him to do anything relevant while he talks about how much he loves the place every week and wrestles low mid carders on Rampage. They're gone. Done. Ya lost them.


----------



## CovidFan

RainmakerV2 said:


> There's always an excuse. It's the world series, it's the NBA, it's the west coast, it's the challenge, oh there was a big news story.
> 
> The fact is most of you sound like yes men to Tony Khan the way you all complain about Vinces yes men. Instead of going " Hey, we just signed Punk and Bryan and went from 1.4 mil to 800K in a month..maybe something isn't clicking "..it's the same old excuses.


tbf, a thread without excuses (from both sides) would be a dead thread because what do the haters want AEW fans to do? Admit it's a bad number? Change the booking? Stop watching? What's the end game here for the haters?


----------



## bdon

I still don’t understand why or how other people enjoying one’s show should matter. 🤷🏼‍♂️


----------



## Joe Gill

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, it's actually quite pathetic to be upset considering how much of a threat Miro is now, and to be this impatient over CM Punk eventually working his way back to the top (since he's been away for 7.5 years). He's still one of the most over acts on the show too.


wow, are you actually defending using Miro as a comedy act for a year teaming with kip freaking sabian? 
there is something called the law of diminishing returns. It applies to CM Punk. The more pointless matches he has with jobbers the less special his matches become.... and it quite clearly reflects in the ratings. Grand Slam showed the potential this show has....and its been followed up with indy style horseshit for the last 2 months.


----------



## RainmakerV2

CovidFan said:


> tbf, a thread without excuses (from both sides) would be a dead thread because what do the haters want AEW fans to do? Admit it's a bad number? Change the booking? Stop watching? What's the end game here for the haters?


Just admit that after signing the 2 biggest free agents in the business, going from 1.4 mil to 800K is probably not a good thing and maybe course needs to be changed. Instead of always just saying "other stuff is on TV."


----------



## Geeee

400k people probably changed the channel when they saw a luchador named after a minivan flip onto his head


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> Just admit that after signing the 2 biggest free agents in the business, going from 1.3 mil to 900K is probably not a good thing and maybe course needs to be changed. Instead of always just saying "other stuff is on TV."


fixed


----------



## CovidFan

RainmakerV2 said:


> Just admit that after signing the 2 biggest free agents in the business, going from 1.4 mil to 800K is probably not a good thing and maybe course needs to be changed. Instead of always just saying "other stuff is on TV."


But that'd kill the most active thread on the forum.

I'll even do it as an AEW fan. AEW has shit the bed with Bryan and Punk. Happy?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Geeee said:


> Shit rating, so I'm gonna theorize that Matt Hardy is the problem because he made a brief appearance in the main event and he's probably my personal least favorite part of AEW programming.
> 
> This is what we're doing, right?


*This is completely Cody's fault.*


----------



## DammitChrist

Joe Gill said:


> wow, are you actually defending using Miro as a comedy act for a year teaming with kip freaking sabian?
> there is something called the law of diminishing returns. It applies to CM Punk. The more pointless matches he has with jobbers the less special his matches become.... and it quite clearly reflects in the ratings. Grand Slam showed the potential this show has....and its been followed up with indy style horseshit for the last 2 months.


Nah, there's nothing really wrong with them featuring Indy acts.


----------



## RainmakerV2

CovidFan said:


> But that'd kill the most active thread on the forum.
> 
> I'll even do it as an AEW fan. AEW has shit the bed with Bryan and Punk. Happy?


I'm not happy. I want the wrestling business to do well. There's no reason that 10 days away from Full Gear after all these signings and bringing Hangman back for the finale of his big arc that they should be doing 800k. Zero reason.


----------



## CovidFan

RainmakerV2 said:


> I'm not happy. I want the wrestling business to do well. There's no reason that 10 days away from Full Gear after all these signings and bringing Hangman back for the finale of his big arc that they should be doing 800k. Zero reason.


and I agree with you and obviously they need to do something different.


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> Just admit that after signing the 2 biggest free agents in the business, going from 1.4 mil to 800K is probably not a good thing and maybe course needs to be changed. Instead of always just saying "other stuff is on TV."


Nope, we won't admit that false theory, and those other reasonable explanations are still valid.


----------



## RainmakerV2

CovidFan said:


> and I agree with you and obviously they need to do something different.



And my fear is that since everyone seems to love Tony, and the core audience is so loyal to him (I mean look at this thread) that no one will tell him anything different needs to be done. Very similar to Vinces' yes men everyone complains about. (Prichard, Laurinaitis.)


----------



## RapShepard

RainmakerV2 said:


> *That long term storytelling shit is so overused and outdated.* That stuff may have worked in the 80s and 90s and it may work in Japan, but it doesn't work anymore in America. People have thousands of channels to choose from now. There's Netflix, Hulu, pirating sites, etc. Americans are more ADHD then ever. *No casual who tuned in for Punk wants to wait 7 or 8 months for him to do anything relevant* while he talks about how much he loves the place every week and wrestles low mid carders on Rampage. They're gone. Done. Ya lost them.


The long term story telling is important, you want to reward fans that watched long term. But that's no excuse to as you said not do relevant shit in the meantime of those big long-term sticking points. Don't want to put the belt immediately on Punk fine. But still have him in side stories that feel worthy of him. 

Instead of Darby feuding with MJF, why not have him be Punk's first real feud and call him out for being a hypocrite the old vet trying to steal the young guns spotlight. That unlike Darby he wasn't losing to an old washed up man. You get 2 months of them talking shit and doing segments and you got a big PPV match to be hype for. Punk vs Kingston is cool, but Punk vs anybody should have more than 2 weeks of build


----------



## fabi1982

So without 10m world series game they drop from 0.4 to 0.33 and all the excuses we have is „damn west coast“ (was the same last week) and „damn competition“? Wow you guys really believe yourself looking in the mirror and tell yourself „all is fine“?!


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> I'm not happy. I want the wrestling business to do well. There's no reason that 10 days away from Full Gear after all these signings and bringing Hangman back for the finale of his big arc that they should be doing 800k. Zero reason.


Why you guys keep saying 800K when it was closer to 900K ?


----------



## CovidFan

RainmakerV2 said:


> And my fear is that since everyone seems to love Tony, and the core audience is so loyal to him (I mean look at this thread) that no one will tell him anything different needs to be done. Very similar to Vinces' yes men everyone complains about. (Prichard, Laurinaitis.)


Hopefully the ratings dropping so significantly in 6 weeks or whatever will tell him more than any yes man could. Hope to see some solid storylines coming out of Full Gear.


----------



## bdon

RainmakerV2 said:


> I'm not happy. I want the wrestling business to do well. There's no reason that 10 days away from Full Gear after all these signings and bringing Hangman back for the finale of his big arc that they should be doing 800k. Zero reason.


Scientifically speaking, the above would be true if all other factors were the same as when they got that 1.3m rating. Unfortunately, Thai has are not the same as they just spent a couple weeks on a Saturday and are now forcing an entire time zone of fans to adjust to a new 5pm time slot, so they have to NOT be at work or driving home from work at 5pm, which just isn’t likely.

Get. Them. Off. TNT.


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> And my fear is that since everyone seems to love Tony, and the core audience is so loyal to him (I mean look at this thread) that no one will tell him anything different needs to be done. Very similar to Vinces' yes men everyone complains about. (Prichard, Laurinaitis.)


Dude, come on, the folks on here aren't nearly as corrupted as those 2 corporate names


----------



## Top bins

rbl85 said:


> WTF are you talking about ?


Tony Khan doesn't know how to book people correctly. And awful talent have main evented the last two weeks. OC this week and the dark Order the week before. 
Rankings and tournaments don't make sense. And some finishes and matches with job guys don't make sense. 

Tony Khan needs to hire someone with wrestling experience to book. 

There was one week where Nick Gage main evented and Brock Anderson the week before. Or something like that. 

That's what I'm talking about.


----------



## RainmakerV2

bdon said:


> Scientifically speaking, the above would be true if all other factors were the same as when they got that 1.3m rating. Unfortunately, Thai has are not the same as they just spent a couple weeks on a Saturday and are now forcing an entire time zone of fans to adjust to a new 5pm time slot, so they have to NOT be at work or driving home from work at 5pm, which just isn’t likely.
> 
> Get. Them. Off. TNT.



If people cared about Pages arc or thought Punk was gonna do anything worth watching, they'd watch.

1. They don't. 

2. They know he isn't and is just gonna wrestle on Rampage instead.


----------



## Dr. Middy

bdon said:


> Scientifically speaking, the above would be true if all other factors were the same as when they got that 1.3m rating. Unfortunately, Thai has are not the same as they just spent a couple weeks on a Saturday and are now forcing an entire time zone of fans to adjust to a new 5pm time slot, so they have to NOT be at work or driving home from work at 5pm, which just isn’t likely.
> 
> Get. Them. Off. TNT.


See that's just another excuse though.

TNT, TBS, whatever, you have to make it work with the product you put forth. Declining ratings show people don't like what they are watching. Realistically Full Gear has been built up incredibly poorly on the whole, and Page/Omega as the big feud isn't cutting it. 

They should have put the title on Bryan, Punk is too far gone now.


----------



## DammitChrist

bdon said:


> Scientifically speaking, the above would be true if all other factors were the same as when they got that 1.3m rating. Unfortunately, Thai has are not the same as they just spent a couple weeks on a Saturday and are now forcing an entire time zone of fans to adjust to a new 5pm time slot, so they have to NOT be at work or driving home from work at 5pm, which just isn’t likely.
> 
> Get. Them. Off. TNT.


Yep, I don't see what's so hard to understand too.

You just gave 2 valid explanations that affected the numbers here


----------



## rbl85

CovidFan said:


> Hopefully the ratings dropping so significantly in 6 weeks or whatever will tell him more than any yes man could. Hope to see some solid storylines coming out of Full Gear.


In those weeks you had 2 weeks with the show on saturday so let's not act like this didn't happen


----------



## DammitChrist

Top bins said:


> Tony Khan doesn't know how to book people correctly. And awful talent have main evented the last two weeks. OC this week and the dark Order the week before.
> Rankings and tournaments don't make sense. And some finishes and matches with job guys don't make sense.
> 
> Tony Khan needs to hire someone with wrestling experience to book.
> 
> There was one week where Nick Gage main evented and Brock Anderson the week before. Or something like that.
> 
> That's what I'm talking about.


Orange Cassidy is absolutely NOT an "awful" talent.


----------



## bdon

RainmakerV2 said:


> If people cared about Pages arc or thought Punk was gonna do anything worth watching, they'd watch.
> 
> 1. They don't.
> 
> 2. They know he isn't and is just gonna wrestle on Rampage instead.


I’m not disagreeing. IMO, the number should have still been higher, but we can’t unequivocally blame the booking when the outside variables are no longer the same. That’s hypothesis are tested to become fact.

AEW’s had the dirt thrown on them countless times by everyone, myself included, and they still find a way to find a groove that results in their ratings climbing back up…before they are again preempted by NBA, NHL, MLB, or whatever the fuck else TNT decides, because TV EXECS DON’T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT WRESTLING.

I fucking hate TNT.


----------



## iarwain

I don't have a problem with the slow burn CM Punk is on. Little by little, as he faces more top guys, it should start to sizzle. This is with the assumption that they are actually going somewhere with this. By the time Punk fights his way to the top of the card, things should be getting interesting, and any rust he has should be long gone. 

But AEW can't just depend on the fact that they have Punk. The novelty of his return was always going to wear off. They need to do something interesting with him, and with the rest of the roster. Strong storytelling, in other words.


----------



## DammitChrist

Dr. Middy said:


> See that's just another excuse though.
> 
> TNT, TBS, whatever, you have to make it work with the product you put forth. Declining ratings show people don't like what they are watching. Realistically Full Gear has been built up incredibly poorly on the whole, and Page/Omega as the big feud isn't cutting it.
> 
> They should have put the title on Bryan, Punk is too far gone now.


@RainmakerV2 Dude, he's being sarcastic by mocking the folks who get dramatic about the numbers. 

He's obviously doing satire.


----------



## RapShepard

Michael Sidgwick of what culture


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> In those weeks you had 2 weeks with the show on saturday so let's not act like this didn't happen


And it was back on Wednesday last week. People know it's back on Wednesday.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*The Tribal Chief remains undefeated. 

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1449037311027683330

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1449054883592740867







*


----------



## Alright_Mate

Alvarez said the number will be down for a good few weeks.

However if they actually showcased their better talent, stopped giving air time to independent nobodies and giving us stories to care about, they probably would have got over 900k.


----------



## Aedubya

Not bad, not great , not amazing , not disastrous

Not bad


----------



## chronoxiong

I didnt get to see last night's show at 8pm PST on the west coast. It was airing a hockey game. So that messed up the viewership for sure.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *The Tribal Chief remains undefeated.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1449037311027683330
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1449054883592740867
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Dude, he lost to the freaking Bunny just recently.

It's like you WANT these memes (where we laugh at this overpushed flop) to continue.


----------



## CovidFan

rbl85 said:


> In those weeks you had 2 weeks with the show on saturday so let's not act like this didn't happen


I'm not acting like that. What I'm saying is from the first Dynamite Punk was on until yesterday (which was on a Wednesday!) the ratings shrunk by ~40%. Let's admit that something's not clicking instead of "omg saturday two weeks ago" and other excuses. Those things that aren't clicking are mostly Punk and Bryan being used poorly. Keep them interesting and people will watch.


----------



## DammitChrist

chronoxiong said:


> I didnt get to see last night's show at 8pm PST on the west coast. It was airing a hockey game. So that messed up the viewership for sure.


Thanks for letting us know about your situation 

See, that's yet another individual from the West Coast on here who was affected.


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> Dude, he lost to the freaking Bunny just recently.
> 
> It's like you WANT these memes (where we laugh at this overpushed flop) to continue.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

As Tracy Smothers used to say... there was a 24 hour gas station down the street. Ya can't compete with that.


----------



## RapShepard

GNKenny said:


> As Tracy Smothers used to say... there was a 24 hour gas station down the street. Ya can't compete with that.


You go 25 hours!


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Alright_Mate said:


> Alvarez said the number will be down for a good few weeks.
> 
> However if they actually showcased their better talent, stopped giving air time to independent nobodies and giving us stories to care about, they probably would have got over 900k.


*And stop having their world champion be competitive with jobbers for two segments as they kick out of his signature move.*


----------



## rbl85

After Full Gear this thread is going to be quiet when the Dynamite does 1.1+M


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

rbl85 said:


> After Full Gear this thread is going to be quiet when the Dynamite does 1.1+M


Yeah. Still won't top their debut episode, which should be the goal. We're all living in the Impact Zone. Ist wunderbar.


----------



## Buhalovski

rbl85 said:


> After Full Gear this thread is going to be quiet when the Dynamite does 1.1+M


I bet if its under 1M some of you guys would still find some new unique excuses.


----------



## DaSlacker

Not sure what they can do in all honesty. 

I mean, we could argue the booking is no better than WCW 1995, 1999, 2000. We could argue that the likes of Orange Cassidy, Dark Order don't belong on TV.

Yet Raw does 1.6 million opposite the NFL. Can anyone watch these two shows side by side and say Raw offers anything better written or better performed. I've watched it lately and even when it's decent it's still really really boring. 

At this point it comes down to
1) WWE's brand value being too strong
2) AEW not having a product, from day one, that will break through that brand value. 

How AEW can transition into something more marketable is the question. As is whether or not they have the people in place to do that.


----------



## cai1981

878k....it is looking more and more like that Live on the West Coast thing was a bad idea! They were getting over 1M consistently (with the exception of the Saturday broadcasts). Now, with the World Series being over, they aren't doing 900k! 

THIS is another example of Khan being obsessed with getting a better rating than WWE! He thought airing in the West Coast at a time when people (especially in his coveted demographic) are still at work or in school or traveling home, eating dinner, etc. 

He needs some good advisers around him if he is going to grow this company!


----------



## bdon

chronoxiong said:


> I didnt get to see last night's show at 8pm PST on the west coast. It was airing a hockey game. So that messed up the viewership for sure.


Shocking I tell ya.


----------



## rbl85

GNKenny said:


> Yeah. Still won't top their debut episode, which should be the goal. We're all living in the Impact Zone. Ist wunderbar.


I always said that it will take years and years for AEW to beat their debut episode


----------



## rbl85

cai1981 said:


> 878k....it is looking more and more like that Live on the West Coast thing was a bad idea! They were getting over 1M consistently (with the exception of the Saturday broadcasts). Now, with the World Series being over, they aren't doing 900k!
> 
> THIS is another example of Khan being obsessed with getting a better rating than WWE! He thought airing in the West Coast at a time when people (especially in his coveted demographic) are still at work or in school or traveling home, eating dinner, etc.
> 
> He needs some good advisers around him if he is going to grow this company!


I don't think it's Khan who made the decision


----------



## DammitChrist

RapShepard said:


>


Yea, that funny Bunny meme won't go away anytime soon, dude.


----------



## DammitChrist

Buhalovski said:


> I bet if its under 1M some of you guys would still find some new unique excuses.


What "excuses" are you even talking about?

I've seen nothing but valid reasons and explanations here.

I've seen no fans make "excuses"


----------



## La Parka

DammitChrist said:


> What "excuses" are you even talking about?
> 
> I've seen nothing but valid reasons and explanations here.
> 
> I've seen no fans make "excuses"


1. The texas weather storm
2. Last years world series
3. BLM Protest
4. Election coverage
5. Pandemic 
6. NXT going head to head
7. Biden press conference 
8. NBA playoffs
9. Jericho's cruise 
10. The Challenge
11. Bowl games


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Good lord that's an awful number, they've gotta put up better shit than that. No excuses for that.


----------



## rbl85

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Good lord that's an awful number,* they've gotta put up better shit than that. *No excuses for that.


The show was very good


----------



## Alright_Mate

DaSlacker said:


> Not sure what they can do in all honesty.
> 
> I mean, we could argue the booking is no better than WCW 1995, 1999, 2000. We could argue that the likes of Orange Cassidy, Dark Order don't belong on TV.
> 
> Yet Raw does 1.6 million opposite the NFL. Can anyone watch these two shows side by side and say Raw offers anything better written or better performed. I've watched it lately and even when it's decent it's still really really boring.
> 
> At this point it comes down to
> 1) WWE's brand value being too strong
> 2) AEW not having a product, from day one, that will break through that brand value.
> 
> How AEW can transition into something more marketable is the question. As is whether or not they have the people in place to do that.


People just need to accept that Wrestling is a dead concept nowadays.

The Wrestling boom period during the Attitude Era, was filled with great wrestlers who had investable characters and tonnes of charisma.

Nowadays AEW, WWE and others are filled with independent nobodies that so many just couldn’t give a shit about.

These companies don’t give us a reason to watch and care, you may get good wrestling now and then, but you also need good stories and good characters, for viewers to get their teeth into.

Wrestling as a whole just lacks that nowadays.


----------



## DammitChrist

La Parka said:


> 1. The texas weather storm
> 2. Last years world series
> 3. BLM Protest
> 4. Election coverage
> 5. Pandemic
> 6. NXT going head to head
> 7. Biden press conference
> 8. NBA playoffs
> 9. Jericho's cruise
> 10. The Challenge
> 11. Bowl games


Hey, nice!! This is why I appreciate you, dude 

Those reasons are also quite understandable too


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Annnnnyway. They'll be down for the rest of the year due to the West Coast timeslot change. Then they'll move to TBS and we'll argue about the ratings going from a 1.1 to 900K and 850K to 1.2 like they always do.

Don't forget, you're here forever. Quote the Raven, Nevermore.


----------



## yeahright2

rbl85 said:


> After Full Gear this thread is going to be quiet when the Dynamite does 1.1+M


No. They´d just be following their pattern if they go above 1.1


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Pretty bad rating to be honest.


----------



## yeahright2

Okay, we have ratings already. They really took a hit this week.. 
AEW Ratings prediction game
But I won, so congratulations to me 

I´m not surprised by this drop. Those Ghostbusters cosplay costumes last week didn´t do them any favors. And opening the show with Omega in a competitive match with a D.O comedy jobber? Bad booking.


----------



## The XL 2

If we're being honest, CM Punk and Bryan, while stars, are not the huge stars some made them out to be. The last two stars the business produced were Cena and Batista, there aren't really many difference makers left. The day of draws is over, it's more or less all about the brand.


----------



## kuja killer

RainmakerV2 said:


> No one outside the smark bubble gives a shit about Hangman Page and they've reduced Punk to nothing.


This for sure...im soooooo fucking sick and god damn tired of "tony kahn" only EVER ever ever ever putting punk's matches on the god damn rampage when they should be on god fucking damn dyanimte. 

please for the love of god somebody answer me this.... do you guys know if punk actually "agreed" legit for reals to only wrestling on rampage and "never" dyanamite ?? was this HIS decision....or was it "forced" by tony khan ?? I want to really know.


----------



## rich110991

Shame that the rating doesn’t reflect how good the show is in comparison to anything WWE puts out.


----------



## Dr. Middy

DammitChrist said:


> @RainmakerV2 Dude, he's being sarcastic by mocking the folks who get dramatic about the numbers.
> 
> He's obviously doing satire.


I was gonna do this for months actually but you ruined it you mong.


----------



## DammitChrist

Dr. Middy said:


> I was gonna do this for months actually but you ruined it you mong.


Uh, wait you were being serious?


----------



## CM Dunk05

So your telling me the viewership went DOWN after that fantastic ghostbusters cosplay tag match? Mental.


----------



## Dr. Middy

I find the comments that there is nothing really good in wrestling these days quite sad honestly. 

Anyway for a serious comment on the ratings I guess. 

The number is poor in every way you try to twist it, even if the West Coast airing does affect things by some measurable amount. The show this week was solid, but there was nothing on it I would call must see or special, although I think they really should have hyped up the America Top Team and Inner Circle segment, which was fantastic. That match and Darby/MJF have been the two best built matches of the PPV right now. 

But I don't know if there's as much hype surrounding Omega and Page as there should be. I get what they were doing for with that 8 man tag and all with the Halloween stuff, but I wonder if a good chunk of people watching that were turned off enough by it that their overall interest in the title match dropped. Because right now it doesn't feel as big, they haven't really had that grand segment the feud needs since Hangman has come back either. By now they really should have done some huge face to face segment and really let Hangman cut a big firey promo and hit his move on Omega or brawl with him, without the involvement of the Elite and all that.

There's a lot of like, but this, along with other things such as Punk (who I think they aren't doing enough with now), that are clear issues which need to be addressed. And also, if Cody is going to continue to straddle this face/heel line while having these clusterfucks at the end of every match, you may as well tell him to stay on his reality show, because his whole character is a mess and a black hole in the show. 

TBS though should at least provide way more stability. Being bumped to Saturday and now the West coast live airing are clearly doing nothing but hurting the show.


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## Majmo_Mendez

RainmakerV2 said:


> Kross is a geek but you seem defensive about a show with the Bucks and goofs like Luchasauras and the Dark Order. Kay. Ya got me. For sure.


Well shit your boy just got fired, better become an AEW fan fast because you know he will end up there


----------



## RainmakerV2

Majmo_Mendez said:


> Well shit your boy just got fired, better become an AEW fan fast because you know he will end up there


Doubt it


----------



## Jay Trotter

One too many scheduling upheavals off their regular night and timeslot may have finally caught up to them. How many weeks in a row well over 1 million? 7? How many weeks in a row at #1 for night? 4? Bumped to Saturday's for two weeks at the point of their best ratings momentum. Terrible call. And for what? Regular season hockey. Overnight infomercial numbers may beat them soon. Just pathetic ratings as excepted. Episodes have been good. Need to finally do something relevant with Punk. It's ridiculous how they never give him anything on Dynamite. Of course they save the promo faceoff with Eddie for F'n Rampage. That's what we wanted to see last night. Let's see if they can bounce back after Full Gear. Move to TBS can't come soon enough.


----------



## Serpico Jones

Meltzer and Alvarez aren’t even trying to hide their shilling anymore.


----------



## Randy Lahey

LifeInCattleClass said:


> that’s shit - any theories as to why?


News was unusually strong in the demo due to
post election coverage


----------



## The Boy Wonder

RainmakerV2 said:


> No one outside the smark bubble gives a shit about Hangman Page and *they've reduced Punk to nothing.*


Punk tried too hard to NOT being another part timer that he unfortunately has turned himself into just another full timer.


----------



## omaroo

OK rating but could have been much better.

No idea what difference live being on the West Coast means but if this move is permanent will this affect ratings in the long haul?

I'm sure being in the 800k-900k ratings slot in the foreseeable future means AEW is not growing and is dying right haters


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Yeah not a good number. The episode was really good (and most of last week's was great), but it's a weak number at this point. It took awhile but they did slip back down fully to pre-Punk numbers, which is horrible.


----------



## Joe Gill

for those making a million excuses for the ratings just remember that Rampage has also seen a big decline in ratings as well. AEW had a great stretch from Punks debut up until Dynamite grand slam....there were great moments, great ppv, great promos, great segments, great matches and focus on the stars. AEW was also rewarded with a big spike in ratings. After that AEW lost its momentum and TK reverted back to his indy booking bullshit and only the hardcore fans are interested in that. This is 100% on TK. He has a great roster with quality production value on a major cable channel.... yet he just cant help himself...he is an indy mark at heart and continues to make huge booking blunders.


----------



## 3venflow

Joe Gill said:


> for those making a million excuses for the ratings just remember that Rampage has also seen a big decline in ratings as well.


Rampage just did its best rating since Grand Slam last Friday and has been putting on some great matches. They have reversed the downward trend somewhat with that show.

I've seen this before on here. Whenever Dynamite has dipped, the roof is falling in, the company needs to be overhauled, my way of booking would be better, etc. etc. Then it's usually back to normal after a while. Wrestling fans are nothing if not reactionary.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

chronoxiong said:


> I didnt get to see last night's show at 8pm PST on the west coast. It was airing a hockey game. So that messed up the viewership for sure.


Because it is on at 5pm on the West Coast now.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Long term storytelling does not automatically translate to great storytelling. They don't have story that people care about. The Page/Omega thing is fake. Nobody in the mainstream cares. They have lost hundreds of thousands of viewers since Bryan vs Omega. They are a couple weeks from one of their only PPVs of the year and they can't muster 900k viewers.


----------



## zkorejo

Yeah they had a steady number of over a million viewers, then they fuckin moved nights and killed all the momentum. 

If they do the same shit on TBS, AEW should definitely look for another network when their contract expires.


----------



## Serpico Jones

The ppvs need to be on HBO max.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I hate to say I told you all so but I did predict this. Tony said the signings of Punk and Bryan would change the face of wrestling and a whole heap of people on here jumped on board with it and agreed with him. I said no chance, that Tony had no idea what he was doing and by the end of the year both guys would be just another member of the roster and that the ratings would indicate that.

It seems I gave Tony a tad too much credit because we're in November and AEW has done under a million for the past 4 weeks whilst the fans look for any excuse possible to excuse it.



RainmakerV2 said:


> No one outside the smark bubble gives a shit about Hangman Page and they've reduced Punk to nothing.


This. I've brought this up before also. People run around calling it one of the greatest storylines in wrestling history yet nobody cares and the ratings drop weekly.



DammitChrist said:


> Okay, why in the HELL should they abandon this long-term storyline with Adam Page fulfilling his redemption against Kenny Omega?
> 
> Screwing up his character arch for hot-shot booking is an awful creative decision.


Its called not being a mark for yourself. 

If we listen to the loyalists two years ago Tony concocted this magnificent idea in which Hangman Page would win the belt at Full Gear 2021 overcoming Kenny and all of this business. Lets say Tony really did have that planned out.

Circumstances have now changed. You have two huge stars that are going to play second fiddle to a guy who is upper midcard at best in AEW simply because Tony just HAS to finish his creative vision. Nobody but the smarks are clamouring for Page to win, Page winning isn't going to bring anyone new in, nobody in the mainstream media wants to talk to Hangman, companies around the world aren't clamouring for COVID to finish to get Hangman wrestling for them.

He's simply a solid upper midcard talent but because Tony had this idea that he needs to finish off he's going with it. Bryan Vs Kenny should've been the match at Full Gear 2021 and it should've been Bryan going over with Hangman running interference leading to a match between the two.



rbl85 said:


> I love all the dumbass shitting on AEW when it could very well just be that ther show being live on the west coast is backfiring.
> 
> Basically the show start when people are either still at work or they have just finished work.


Ah, a new excuse and if you don't agree with that view then you're a dumbass, magnificent.



La Parka said:


> 1. The texas weather storm
> 2. Last years world series
> 3. BLM Protest
> 4. Election coverage
> 5. Pandemic
> 6. NXT going head to head
> 7. Biden press conference
> 8. NBA playoffs
> 9. Jericho's cruise
> 10. The Challenge
> 11. Bowl games


My favourite was number 9.

"No, honest! The 2000 people on the boat totally hurt the ratings!"



Alright_Mate said:


> People just need to accept that Wrestling is a dead concept nowadays.
> 
> The Wrestling boom period during the Attitude Era, was filled with great wrestlers who had investable characters and tonnes of charisma.
> 
> Nowadays AEW, WWE and others are filled with independent nobodies that so many just couldn’t give a shit about.
> 
> These companies don’t give us a reason to watch and care, you may get good wrestling now and then, but you also need good stories and good characters, for viewers to get their teeth into.
> 
> Wrestling as a whole just lacks that nowadays.


You're half right and half wrong.

Most people are happy to support wrestling again, I run my shows and I get everyone in the building ranging from little 3-4 year old boys/girls all the way up to men/women in their seventies and eighties who want to come out and see wrestling and they have a great night. I'd say maybe 25-30% of my audience are people who strictly come out to my shows and don't watch any other independent or even WWE, AEW etc. You ask them why and they tell you that it's all too silly now, hard to get emotionally invested etc (Pretty much the reasons you're touching on) but they like coming out to the local wrestling because it's a good night out and they get emotionally invested in it all.

What TV wrestling needs to do is find a way to hook these people and to be honest neither AEW or WWE has a product that's going to do that BUT it is achievable. A mum and dad in their thirties with their five year old son and a 2 year old daughter don't give one fuck if Kalisto is All Elite or if Hangman is going to overcome Kenny.

When one promotion finds out how to hook those people they'll be off to the races.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Tune in next week when its all better and its the other’s side turn to shit on everybody


----------



## Jbardo37

I’m really enjoying AEW, however there’s just no defending that rating, they should be hitting a million every week now.


----------



## thorn123

Unless the Rock shows up ratings are not going to grow.
Unless they produce an NWO type angle ratings and not going to grow.
The trick is to stop it dropping. Unfortunately today’s consumers are fickle. 
AEW have had many quality hits and only a couple of misses on tv since crowds have been back, there is not much more they can do. Maybe just be happy with 800k for dynamite.


----------



## Algernon

Anybody have the NHL numbers? They didn’t even crack the top 50. So their demo was 0.11 or worse. 
I get that they generate better ad dollars but that’s just embarrassing. Even at its worst AEW blows away hockey’s numbers. NXT,which is a pure developmental show now, beat the NHL in viewers and demos.


----------



## Aedubya

TNT are delighted with the rating


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Well let's look at it this way, the ratings have been down but look at all the new toys Tony Khan can buy after today!! I can't wait until a month or so from now when we get 5 debuts within a month!!! Ratings will go right back up.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

@RainmakerV2 @RapShepard @The Legit DMD 

Papa Khan is smelling rosy in comparison today, isn’t he


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Well let's look at it this way, the ratings have been down but look at all the new toys Tony Khan can buy after today!! I can't wait until a month or so from now when we get 5 debuts within a month!!! Ratings will go right back up.


Yeaaaa, that's the spirit!


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> @RainmakerV2 @RapShepard @The Legit DMD
> 
> Papa Khan is smelling rosy in comparison today, isn’t he


No folk get fired every day B


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> No folk get fired every day B


Smell the rosy Papa Khan


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1456416341590642720


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Smell the rosy Papa Khan
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1456416341590642720


Lee, Braun, Bray, B-Fab, and Mercedes only ones I say damn for. 

But that Nick Khan is a gold medalist in ripping up the contract. Man put the old post Mania releases to shame lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Lee, Braun, Bray, B-Fab, and Mercedes only ones I say damn for.
> 
> But that Nick Khan is a gold medalist in ripping up the contract. Man put the old post Mania releases to shame lol


Lol, I am out of the loop - what in the fuck is a ‘B-fab’ ??


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Lol, I am out of the loop - what in the fuck is a ‘B-fab’ ??


Chick from Hit Row awful green wrestler good valet for the gimmick.


----------



## DammitChrist

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Lol, I am out of the loop - what in the fuck is a ‘B-fab’ ??


B-Fab was the only female member in Hit Row.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ah, she was a hottie, wasn’t she?

TK, get on the phone!


----------



## Top bins

DammitChrist said:


> Orange Cassidy is absolutely NOT an "awful" talent.


And that's the beauty of life. We have different opinions. You don't believe so and that's fine. I think he's one of the worst things ever to be in a wrestling ring. We agree to disagree.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> @RainmakerV2 @RapShepard @The Legit DMD
> 
> Papa Khan is smelling rosy in comparison today, isn’t he


*I read at least 5 of the releases were anti vaxxers, and I don't give a single fuck about that. Good luck to everyone else though.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *I read at least 5 of the releases were anti vaxxers, and I don't give a single fuck about that. Good luck to everyone else though.*


I won’t believe the ‘Release because anti-vax’ until there is an official statement

WWE loves underhanded bullshit rumour spreading to make them look better


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

@Big Booty Bex *is RATINGS!!!*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1456581851041177603


----------



## One Shed

So what i gather from the last ten or so pages is a week after one of the most awful and goofiest main events ever, their rating fell 20%? Weird.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I won’t believe the ‘Release because anti-vax’ until there is an official statement
> 
> WWE loves underhanded bullshit rumour spreading to make them look better


*Per Meltzer, who says whatever he can to make WWE look bad:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1456578095394160651*


----------



## Alright_Mate

Chip Chipperson said:


> Most people are happy to support wrestling again, I run my shows and I get everyone in the building ranging from little 3-4 year old boys/girls all the way up to men/women in their seventies and eighties who want to come out and see wrestling and they have a great night. I'd say maybe 25-30% of my audience are people who strictly come out to my shows and don't watch any other independent or even WWE, AEW etc. You ask them why and they tell you that it's all too silly now, hard to get emotionally invested etc (Pretty much the reasons you're touching on) but they like coming out to the local wrestling because it's a good night out and they get emotionally invested in it all.
> 
> What TV wrestling needs to do is find a way to hook these people and to be honest neither AEW or WWE has a product that's going to do that BUT it is achievable. A mum and dad in their thirties with their five year old son and a 2 year old daughter don't give one fuck if Kalisto is All Elite or if Hangman is going to overcome Kenny.
> 
> When one promotion finds out how to hook those people they'll be off to the races.


It’s impossible to compare the two Chip, I’ve been to lower class indy shows here in the UK, lower class companies sometimes go to holiday camps and cater for them, families turn up for a day or a night out, they may support wrestling in that aspect, but as you’ve said, they may not necessarily enjoy what WrestlIng has become nowadays, AEW & WWE being the main examples.

I see certain fans acting like this era is another “Wrestling boom” period, it’s not, ratings of shows like AEW & WWE prove that.

We were blessed in the attitude era, because it was filled with characters that had charisma, fans had many superstars that they could get behind, nowadays wrestling doesn’t have those characters, they have too many Kalisto’s, too many Daniel Garcia’s, too many Lee Moriarty’s.

They might be good wrestlers, but they are not investable wrestlers, that’s the problem in Wrestling nowadays, wrestling is filled with guys like that, they just come to wrestle and show absolutely no character & charisma.


----------



## Alright_Mate

The Legit DMD said:


> @Big Booty Bex *is RATINGS!!!*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1456581851041177603


I said on another thread yesterday, that Women’s wrestling is in a much healthier position than Men’s wrestling.

Here you have to two upcoming talents in their 20’s, who happen to have World Class booty’s.

Win, win 💰


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Per Meltzer, who says whatever he can to make WWE look bad:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1456578095394160651*


i don’t trust Dave - never have


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Omega's match did worse than Kalisto's:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1456594280726859780
Are the remaining holdouts ready to admit that the 10-15 minute competitive Star vs Jobber match doesn't work?*


----------



## Not Lying

@Big Booty Bex is a draw

MJF/Darby also shined. Great segment.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

The Definition of Technician said:


> @Big Booty Bex is a draw
> 
> MJF/Darby also shined. Great segment.


*But I was told the promo segments and women killed the viewers 🤔. Someone is wrong here.*


----------



## Dr. Middy

The Legit DMD said:


> *Omega's match did worse than Kalisto's:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1456594280726859780
> Are the remaining holdouts ready to admit that the 10-15 minute competitive Star vs Jobber match doesn't work?*


Yeah they do that sort of thing too often. Granted, everybody aggressively inflates the length of these matches sometimes, they're usually more near like 8 minutes or so like this was one. 

If they want to do it, it should be very much a rarity, and the matches probably shouldn't be anywhere longer than 5-6 minutes or so. Sometimes it can work really well, see Taka Michinoku and Triple H on Raw years ago.


----------



## Alright_Mate

The Legit DMD said:


> *Omega's match did worse than Kalisto's:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1456594280726859780
> Are the remaining holdouts ready to admit that the 10-15 minute competitive Star vs Jobber match doesn't work?*


Those ratings prove that Alan Angels and Orange Cassidy are...


----------



## RogueSlayer

Tony Khan may just be the worst booker in professional wrestling history, imagine signing big name free agents and your ratings end up being worse than before.

Our tribal chief was right Cm Punk was never a draw and this proves it.


----------



## RapShepard

Maybe The Elite and The Dark Order can get into a shootout in an old western strip club. That way you combine everything Americans of all ages love westerns for the oldies, and violence, beer, and titties for everybody else.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RogueSlayer said:


> Tony Khan may just be the worst booker in professional wrestling history, imagine signing big name free agents and your ratings end up being worse than before.
> 
> Our tribal chief was right Cm Punk was never a draw and this proves it.


*Our Tribal Chief is NEVER wrong. Acknowledge him before it's too late!*


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1456649527147081730

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Geeee

RapShepard said:


> Maybe The Elite and The Dark Order can get into a shootout in an old western strip club. That way you combine everything Americans of all ages love westerns for the oldies, and violence, beer, and titties for everybody else.


I would watch this but for sure the Dynamite thread here would be burying this segment


----------



## 3venflow

So, Kenny vs. Angels match + Hangman angle was the highest for the key demo, latter part of Inner Circle promo/Dante and Lio/Jamie vs. Anna the highest for total viewership. Very strange to see the last part of the show fall like that.

Thurston mentions the F18-49 decline, well it was the finale of Housewives of Beverly Hills, so maybe they'll get some of the ladies back next week.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1456649527147081730
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*Cody and Andrade ran off the viewers this week. Last week's promo fell flat on its face.*


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *Our Tribal Chief is NEVER wrong. Acknowledge him before it's too late!*


He got beat by the freaking BUNNY just recently.

It’s pretty cute how you’re trying to desperately deflect from that by trying to rip on Kenny Omega when he’s consistently done well with the ratings.

Wake me up once you’re done taking all these Ls.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *Omega's match did worse than Kalisto's:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1456594280726859780
> Are the remaining holdouts ready to admit that the 10-15 minute competitive Star vs Jobber match doesn't work?*


Oh, I just saw the demographic numbers for Kenny Omega’s opening match.

They turned out to be the highest for his match, and for the post-match interaction with Adam Page.

Are you just going to conveniently ignore that? 😂

Edit:

This dude is ACTUALLY ripping on Cody Rhodes “tanking the viewership” when his segment had the highest ratings just last week


----------



## 3venflow

Dunno what Tony Khan is doing tonight.

Cole vs. Silver (could be good but it's a midcard match)
The Bunny vs. Red Velvet (will probably be shit)
Eddie vs. Punk... interview segment.

That's the entirety of Rampage for a standalone show that has sold this impressive amount (more than recent Smackdowns and Dynamites):


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1456659765749239811
Apparently, Dark/Elevation before the show is going to be quite loaded, but Rampage itself still looks very weak compared to recent editions.


----------



## TheRedeemer

People tuning in to Cody’s promo last week. Guess his please don’t boo me speech killed any interest


----------



## Not Lying

Cody's promo last week was one of the worst things I have ever seen inside the squared circle and I feel no sympathy for him anymore. Get Black away from him.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

TheRedeemer said:


> People tuning in to Cody’s promo last week. Guess his please don’t boo me speech killed any interest


*I heard that promo made him a top draw and Tony Khan himself compared Cody to Cena afterwards 😆*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

One thing to note regarding the main event is it’s one of the few times I can recall where the main event was only about half the quarter. Outside of Rampages where the final quarter may have the pre-match promo+match itself, this Dynamite had a Dark Order segment going into then the main event that had nothing to do with each other. It’s maybe the only time I can recall something like that.

Not to say Miro or OC are draws or anything like that, but I’d imagine the quarter would’ve fared better if it was just that match like they’d usually do for the main event.

I also think it would’ve done better regardless if they kept it a mystery who OC was facing. Make people stay tuned in to find out.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Dunno what Tony Khan is doing tonight.
> 
> Cole vs. Silver (could be good but it's a midcard match)
> The Bunny vs. Red Velvet (will probably be shit)
> Eddie vs. Punk... interview segment.
> 
> That's the entirety of Rampage for a standalone show that has sold this impressive amount (more than recent Smackdowns and Dynamites):
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1456659765749239811
> Apparently, Dark/Elevation before the show is going to be quite loaded, but Rampage itself still looks very weak compared to recent editions.


ah, 5k tickets - that is good ratings


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*My trolling to Solomonster ended up being right 🤣*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1456363296056037376


----------



## Kishido

So what new excuses we have?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Kishido said:


> So what new excuses we have?


*Nothing new, just DA DEMO!!11!*


----------



## Swan-San

Boring storylines and TV formatting. two really good shows on luck every 6 months.


----------



## Kishido

The Legit DMD said:


> *Nothing new, just DA DEMO!!11!*


Ahhh ok. Thought about one sides stories how only AEW is effected


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

AEW cultists: 

TK is putting on a great show
The booking is good
Young fans and the demo matters

WWE cultists

Acknowledge me!
Every company fires peopleee!
Stop hiring WWE rejects!


----------



## Randy Lahey

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1456649527147081730


Cody-Andrade was a WWE style match between WWE wrestlers. It’s no surprise to me that it tanked the demo bc AEW fans don’t want to watch WWE. 

Cody is irredeemable at this point, and so is Andrade unless they bring in a Salina or Flair.


----------



## 3venflow

I don't think you can draw any conclusions from a single data point.

ie. last week, Cody's promo segment drew the most viewers (994,000) and the highest 18-49 rating (545,000).

The answer is probably to get minute-by-minute breakdowns of every wrestler on the roster over x amount of time. Chris Harrington is probably the only guy with that data.


----------



## Garty

If someone can look things up, @3venflow I'm looking at you. I noticed a few of the commercial breaks (not the PIP) this week were either in or out of the actual quarter hours... for example a commercial at :29 to :32 or :43 to :46. Ratings are taken exactly at the quarter hour, so if you're in commercial, expect there to be channel changers in between and unless they stick around into the next quarter, they don't register.

The real reason for the drop, is the live feed now being coast-coast at 8E and 5P is what has skewed the audience.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *Nothing new, just DA DEMO!!11!*


You just want to dismiss the fact about the demographic numbers being important because you know it makes your recent post(s) look even more laughable knowing that Kenny Omega (plus Adam Page) had the highest number of younger views watching this week; which isn't surprising since you're incapable of admitting that you're wrong.


----------



## Big Booty Bex

The Legit DMD said:


> @Big Booty Bex *is RATINGS!!!*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1456581851041177603





The Legit DMD said:


> *Omega's match did worse than Kalisto's:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1456594280726859780
> Are the remaining holdouts ready to admit that the 10-15 minute competitive Star vs Jobber match doesn't work?*





The Definition of Technician said:


> @Big Booty Bex is a draw
> 
> MJF/Darby also shined. Great segment.





The Legit DMD said:


> *But I was told the promo segments and women killed the viewers 🤔. Someone is wrong here.*












@The Legit DMD and @The Definition of Technician taking me to Church spreading the gospel and truth. Lord take my hand and lead me to the ratings promised land!


----------



## TheRedeemer

The Legit DMD said:


> *I heard that promo made him a top draw and Tony Khan himself compared Cody to Cena afterwards 😆*


Viewership under Cena dropped but Cena at least had a line of kids dressed up in his merch. Don’t think Cody has a line of kids with a awful neck tattoo lined up on the front row.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Top bins said:


> And that's the beauty of life. We have different opinions. You don't believe so and that's fine. I think he's one of the worst things ever to be in a wrestling ring. We agree to disagree.


I think Cassidy proved that he was factually one of the worst when they chucked him in a main event with Chris Jericho and he botched like 10 times in 5 minutes.



RogueSlayer said:


> Our tribal chief was right Cm Punk was never a draw and this proves it.


It comes down to how you use them. For example, The Rock is the hottest movie star in Hollywood right now but if you put him in a movie that looks shitty odds are most people won't buy it simply because Rock is in it.

Same deal here, CM Punk has a big fanbase but if you're going to use him stupidly people will tune out. I love CM Punk, I've been a fan of his for over 15 years now (Originally caught my interest during his leaving ROH angle) but I won't watch his AEW work because its boring as fuck now.


----------



## Big Booty Bex

Why am I not surprised people are already trying to deny the gospel of Bex?


----------



## 3venflow

Fans don't seem put off by one hour shows with Dark/Elevation beforehand. Live Rampage attendances (tonight's probably isn't final yet):


----------



## Randy Lahey

3venflow said:


> I don't think you can draw any conclusions from a single data point.
> 
> ie. last week, Cody's promo segment drew the most viewers (994,000) and the highest 18-49 rating (545,000).
> 
> The answer is probably to get minute-by-minute breakdowns of every wrestler on the roster over x amount of time. Chris Harrington is probably the only guy with that data.


Promos are different than wrestling. I’d suspect the Christian/Kazarian match when Christian first came in was also low.

I think AEW audience is so anti-wwe that if you give them a wwe match they just aren’t going to be into it


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Big Booty Bex said:


> View attachment 111400
> 
> 
> Why am I not surprised people are already trying to deny the gospel of Bex?


*Clowns deny the impact of our women every day B. We'll be alright.*


----------



## DammitChrist

Randy Lahey said:


> Promos are different than wrestling. *I’d suspect the Christian/Kazarian match when Christian first came in was also low.*
> 
> I think AEW audience is so anti-wwe that if you give them a wwe match they just aren’t going to be into it


In all fairness though, I specifically remember Christian Cage vs Frankie Kazarian having the highest rated segment in terms of overall viewership for that Dynamite episode back in late-March.


----------



## DaSlacker

TheRedeemer said:


> Viewership under Cena dropped but Cena at least had a line of kids dressed up in his merch. Don’t think Cody has a line of kids with a awful neck tattoo lined up on the front row.


Not often realised but viewership hit a 3 year high during Cena's first year on Raw. Then in 2009 viewership was at a 7 year high.

The WWE ratings were relatively steady until 2012 and they went 3 hours. Went into freefall between late 2014 and 2015.

Apologies for going a little off topic.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Cena did indeed seem to help viewership for a bit before it started going down. It’s different from Reigns who has viewership consistently go down since his monster push began.

Also I will say looking at the breakdowns Hayter matches generally do really well. It’s a shame she’s only had shit opponents to work with. Thunder Rosa match should be her first match where she had someone that can work.

But as far as numbers go, she does well. Although she is tied to Britt Baker right now who is one of the bigger draws in AEW right now, and certainly biggest among the women on the show. So I don’t think we’ll know how big of a draw Hayter is until she’s on her own. Still she’s done well so far, whatever the reason is. I’m definitely a fan.


----------



## 3venflow

They have now passed 10,000 sold for Full Gear next week.


----------



## omaroo

3venflow said:


> They have now passed 10,000 sold for Full Gear next week.


How many left for a sellout?


----------



## 3venflow

omaroo said:


> How many left for a sellout?


From WrestleTix:

Available Tickets => 2,207 (-135)
Estimated Setup/Capacity => 12,350
Tickets Distributed => 10,143 (82%)
Estimated Gate => $657,393


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> From WrestleTix:
> 
> Available Tickets => 2,207 (-135)
> Estimated Setup/Capacity => 12,350
> Tickets Distributed => 10,143 (82%)
> Estimated Gate => $657,393


that’s a beefy gate


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Full Gear will be in more movie theaters than previous AEW PPVs, like Regal and AMC, which is great for me, because the Cinemark theaters are always far away.*


----------



## 3venflow

Next week's live Rampage, the final show before Full Gear, has sold around 5,900 tickets in the Target Center. So over 16,000 sold for the two days so far. They've configured the Rampage to seat 7,800 rather than using the full upper deck.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Next week's live Rampage, the final show before Full Gear, has sold around 5,900 tickets in the Target Center. So over 16,000 sold for the two days so far. They've configured the Rampage to seat 7,800 rather than using the full upper deck.


is it a live Rampage again I'm assuming?

edit> that'll mean 300k for Dynamite gate, 300k for Rampage, and 700k for Full Gear

a cool 1,3m week is not bad business - I'm so happy I'm taking the tickets sold as the 'ratings' now


----------



## 3venflow

Looks like Warner are high on Punk. FOX wanted WWE to get him too. Reality show incoming?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1457092103067033606


----------



## Erik.

3venflow said:


> Looks like Warner are high on Punk. FOX wanted WWE to get him too. Reality show incoming?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1457092103067033606


Please lead to Corporate CM Punk.


----------



## SuperstarSlyme

Never understand the obsession with ratings. Does the ratings being up or down actually effect your ability to wnjoy the product as a viewerr/fan ? Generally curious


----------



## 3venflow

Rampage viewership fast nationals from Alfred Konuwa (who WWE leaks them to): 556,000

Nothing about the key demo which was up to 0.25 last week.

This will probably end up around 570,000 to 595,000, which would be below last week but likely above the three weeks prior to that.


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> Rampage viewership fast nationals from Alfred Konuwa (who WWE leaks them to): 556,000
> 
> Nothing about the key demo which was up to 0.25 last week.
> 
> This will probably end up around 570,000 to 595,000, which would be below last week but likely above the three weeks prior to that.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

SuperstarSlyme said:


> Never understand the obsession with ratings. Does the ratings being up or down actually effect your ability to wnjoy the product as a viewerr/fan ? Generally curious


IDK. I guess people wanna pretend it's the 90's? Beats me.

But that's not a bad number.


----------



## thorn123

Just watched rampage and dynamite. Both were fine shows and deserved higher viewership than they are getting.

A pizza joint on my street makes the best pizza I ever tasted and it’s struggling to stay in business.

the worlds gone mad


----------



## SuperstarSlyme

The Raw Smackdown said:


> IDK. I guess people wanna pretend it's the 90's? Beats me.
> 
> But that's not a bad number.


clearly they do


----------



## sideon

SuperstarSlyme said:


> Never understand the obsession with ratings. Does the ratings being up or down actually effect your ability to wnjoy the product as a viewerr/fan ? Generally curious


So if Dynamite and Rampage were getting Smackdown numbers you wouldn't care? Man please, Ya'll claim to not care about ratings, yet keep bumping this ratings thread.


The Raw Smackdown said:


> IDK. I guess people wanna pretend it's the 90's? Beats me.
> 
> But that's not a bad number.


This is just sad now. Despite what Meltzer and Jericho say ratings are still the #1 factor when it comes to television.


Randy Lahey said:


> Cody-Andrade was a WWE style match between WWE wrestlers. *It’s no surprise to me that it tanked the demo bc AEW fans don’t want to watch WWE.*
> 
> Cody is irredeemable at this point, and so is Andrade unless they bring in a Salina or Flair.


Yet you all want them to sign everyone WWE releases. Also if you think AEW fans aren't watching WWE then you're an idiot. It's funny whenever AEW does something stupid ya'll are quick to compare it to WWE, but AEW is doing a great job at establishing their own garbage identity.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Love that Britt is making the Regal theatre announcement. It's 5 minutes from me in comparison to Cinemark, which is 40.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1457364719111577608*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Love that Britt is making the Regal theatre announcement. It's 5 minutes from me in comparison to Cinemark, which is 40.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1457364719111577608*


You gonna watch in the theatre again?

that sounds like such a cool experience


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> You gonna watch in the theatre again?
> 
> that sounds like such a cool experience


*Yes, and now I can get there even faster!*


----------



## SuperstarSlyme

sideon said:


> So if Dynamite and Rampage were getting Smackdown numbers you wouldn't care? Man please, Ya'll claim to not care about ratings, yet keep bumping this ratings thread.
> 
> This is just sad now. Despite what Meltzer and Jericho say ratings are still the #1 factor when it comes to television.
> 
> Yet you all want them to sign everyone WWE releases. Also if you think AEW fans aren't watching WWE then you're an idiot. It's funny whenever AEW does something stupid ya'll are quick to compare it to WWE, but AEW is doing a great job at establishing their own garbage identity.


i would be happy but it wouldnt effect my ability to enjoy the product i dont get paid off theor viewership and as a wrestling fan it does little to make me enjoy the product unless u would rather like something that everybody else likes as well


----------



## Kishido

DaveRA said:


> Just watched rampage and dynamite. Both were fine shows and deserved higher viewership than they are getting.
> 
> A pizza joint on my street makes the best pizza I ever tasted and it’s struggling to stay in business.
> 
> the worlds gone mad


This is stupid... You compare a pizza joint to a company of an multi billionaire owner on TNA.

The pizza joint owner hasn't the same amount of money for advertising or any...

But still... If he would be really that good people in your street would go there and alone from mouth to mouth advertising he would do better.

During Corona a lot of shit class private restaurants left my city... But the good ones stayed because people knew they were good and went back to them.

PS 
Going to drive tommy favourite take away Pizza restaurant now


----------



## 3venflow

This week's Dynamite ticket situation:

Available Tickets => 639
Estimated Setup/Capacity => 5,954
Tickets Distributed => 5,315 (89%)


----------



## 3venflow

Back to Newark to begin the TBS era, where they drew 12,500+ last time.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1457755293610229764
And they're running the Greensboro Coliseum and PNC Arena, two big buildings. 😲


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1457754793867300865

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1457755796570132482


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Back to Newark to begin the TBS era, where they drew 12,500+ last time.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1457755293610229764
> And they're running the Greensboro Coliseum and PNC Arena, two big buildings. 😲
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1457754793867300865
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1457755796570132482


kenny’s north carolina entrance is gonna pop huge in that last one


----------



## omaroo

Still hate the TBS championship and its name lol. 

Rampage really should be on TBS too instead of keeping it on TNT.


----------



## DaSlacker

omaroo said:


> Still hate the TBS championship and its name lol.
> 
> Rampage really should be on TBS too instead of keeping it on TNT.


Personally I think they should move it to prime time Mondays on TNT and increase it to 90 minutes. Won't beat Raw or get close to it but wouldn't be the disaster many expect.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1457816372579344386

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

Good viewership for Rampage, decent 18-49. It's lower than last week in viewership but higher than the 10/8, 10/15 and 10/22 shows. Demo was down from last week and about the same as the previous four-week average.

It finished number five on cable, which is good.


----------



## .christopher.

DaveRA said:


> Just watched rampage and dynamite. Both were fine shows and deserved higher viewership than they are getting.
> 
> A pizza joint on my street makes the best pizza I ever tasted and it’s struggling to stay in business.
> 
> the worlds gone mad


You say this every week.

There is a reason why not only are AEW failing to grow their audience, but have already lost the bump Bryan and Punk gave them, and it's because they aren't producing good television.


----------



## La Parka

.christopher. said:


> You say this every week.
> 
> There is a reason why not only are AEW failing to grow their audience, but have already lost the bump Bryan and Punk gave them, and it's because they aren't producing good television.


We lost 500k viewers but it can’t possibly be because of lack of quality!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

La Parka said:


> We lost 500k viewers but it can’t possibly be because of lack of quality!


You thought there was a lack of quality on Friday’s show?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*They used their 3 biggest signings on the B show with 2/3 facing jobbers. That's why the rating is what it is. *

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1457842102977581060


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> You thought there was a lack of quality on Friday’s show?


Nobody is saying the product doesn't appeal to a smart mark such as yourself or others on this forum but when it comes to attracting a mainstream audience or a lapsed fan they have no idea how to do it.


----------



## La Parka

LifeInCattleClass said:


> You thought there was a lack of quality on Friday’s show?


The main event featured John Silver.

So yes, a huge lack of quality.

As were the other weeks where you had CM Punk facing random jobbers and OC going over Hobbs


----------



## DammitChrist

La Parka said:


> The main event featured John Silver.
> 
> So yes, a huge lack of quality.
> 
> As were the other weeks where you had CM Punk facing random jobbers and OC going over Hobbs


You didn't enjoy that good match with Adam Cole vs John Silver? 

It reminded of the good, fond memories I had with those fun matches from Indy NXT.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> You didn't enjoy that good match with Adam Cole vs John Silver?
> 
> It reminded of the good, fond memories I had with those fun matches from Indy NXT.


Matches don't matter.


----------



## DammitChrist

Chip Chipperson said:


> Matches don't matter.


Ppvs are about the wrestling matches though!


----------



## thorn123

.christopher. said:


> You say this every week.
> 
> There is a reason why not only are AEW failing to grow their audience, but have already lost the bump Bryan and Punk gave them, and it's because they aren't producing good television.


glad you are reading

heartily disagree ... I am one of the biggest WWE marks of all time. Been watching since hogan beat the shiek and have defended them with my last breath over the years, but right now AEW is a much superior television product. It is just the fans are not satisfied with AEW and never will be - because it is not WWE. Like I say every week - only the rock or an NWO level angle will increase viewership for AEW.


----------



## yeahright2

There´s Rampage ratings
(Obligatory shameless plug for the ratings game)
AEW Ratings prediction game

@GNKenny almost nailed it this week, so he wins.

For the life of me, I can´t even remember what happened on that episode, so I have no comment of it being good or bad.


----------



## Jay Trotter

If only that Punk and Eddie promo segment was booked on Wednesday shortly after 8pm instead of Friday shortly after 10pm. It would've done twice as much as the 638K.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Nobody is saying the product doesn't appeal to a smart mark such as yourself or others on this forum but when it comes to attracting a mainstream audience or a lapsed fan they have no idea how to do it.


and that is ok - appealing to me and other AEW fans still keeps a 10:00 product in the top 5

better than changing all that and maybe dropping out the top 50 because not only can you not attract casuals, you also lose your smarks

better the devil you know


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

La Parka said:


> The main event featured John Silver.
> 
> So yes, a huge lack of quality.
> 
> As were the other weeks where you had CM Punk facing random jobbers and OC going over Hobbs


did you watch the Silver match?

it was good and a lot of fun


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> and that is ok - appealing to me and other AEW fans still keeps a 10:00 product in the top 5
> 
> better than changing all that and maybe dropping out the top 50 because not only can you not attract casuals, you also lose your smarks
> 
> better the devil you know


Agree but Tony clearly wants more, he wants to be number 1 or at least highly competitive with the number one.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Agree but Tony clearly wants more, he wants to be number 1 or at least highly competitive with the number one.


He is competitive enough - he’s number 2

he’d be dumb IMO to go after causals and all that entails in order to try and take WWE’s spot - he’d have to kiddify the whole thing, get in youtube celebs, make it easily digestible etc etc

and you‘re not dethroning WWE anyway, so catering to your audience and growing the hardcores is a fair way to go about it

and him being a hardcore I see it continuing in this manner


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> He is competitive enough - he’s number 2
> 
> he’d be dumb IMO to go after causals and all that entails in order to try and take WWE’s spot - he’d have to kiddify the whole thing, get in youtube celebs, make it easily digestible etc etc
> 
> and you‘re not dethroning WWE anyway, so catering to your audience and growing the hardcores is a fair way to go about it
> 
> and him being a hardcore I see it continuing in this manner


Not so much trying to outdo WWE or take their spot but lets say he manages to attract another 500,000 fans who were lapsed fans or are WWE fans. His ratings now go to 1.5 million people, that'd probably warrant an upgrade on his existing deal, additional PPV buys, more tickets sold etc.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Not so much trying to outdo WWE or take their spot but lets say he manages to attract another 500,000 fans who were lapsed fans or are WWE fans. His ratings now go to 1.5 million people, that'd probably warrant an upgrade on his existing deal, additional PPV buys, more tickets sold etc.


I would think his current ratings warrant an upgrade already when you think he’s always in the top 5 in both programs

but 1.5m will of course be welcome - but not at the cost of the current fanbase


----------



## Dark Emperor

A TV show that have a guy who was the most anticipated return in wrestling for a decade can't even crack 600k. Disappointing.


----------



## DaSlacker

Dark Emperor said:


> A TV show that have a guy who was the most anticipated return in wrestling for a decade can't even crack 600k. Disappointing.


In fairness his debut episode, in a later timeslot on a difficult night, was over a million viewers and peaked at 1.4 million. Since then he's been on TV a lot. 

I think some on here have unrealistic expectations considering what the audience is thesedays and the jump start it would need to reach the numbers they think it should be doing.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Dark Emperor said:


> A TV show that have a guy who was the most anticipated return in wrestling for a decade can't even crack 600k. Disappointing.


*It's hard to be disappointed when you knew Roman was right all along. Punk was never THAT guy outside of summer 2011.*


----------



## omaroo

Has full gear still not sold out? 

Very strange as usually their ppvs sell out in record time.


----------



## Erik.

TNT casually getting a top five show in a deathslot - no wonder why they love AEW.


----------



## omaroo

As long Rampage keeps staying in the top 5 then the death time slot will remain unfortunately. 

That should should be doing even bigger numbers if not for that time slot.


----------



## thorn123

Dark Emperor said:


> A TV show that have a guy who was the most anticipated return in wrestling for a decade can't even crack 600k. Disappointing.


wrestling marks and the IWC built up his return, just like they did for the Christian announcement. Only to be let down. Punk was never a game changer (even though I am enjoying his work)


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1458250890708766720

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Irish Jet

DaveRA said:


> glad you are reading
> 
> heartily disagree ... I am one of the biggest WWE marks of all time. Been watching since hogan beat the shiek and have defended them with my last breath over the years, but right now AEW is a much superior television product. It is just the fans are not satisfied with AEW and never will be - because it is not WWE. Like I say every week - only the rock or an NWO level angle will increase viewership for AEW.


It can be a lot better than WWE and still be trash.

I don’t think AEW is terrible but they undermine so much of the good with the awful stuff. They work so many of the same high spots that eventually they lose any novelty and give their guys way too much freedom to do goofy shit that appeals to them and their cultish audience above anything else. The only serious attempts made to bring in new viewers are big signings and they do bring them, they just can’t keep them because the garbage is so prominent and off putting for anyone isn’t already in the cult.


----------



## thorn123

Irish Jet said:


> It can be a lot better than WWE and still be trash.
> 
> I don’t think AEW is terrible but they undermine so much of the good with the awful stuff. They work so many of the same high spots that eventually they lose any novelty and give their guys way too much freedom to do goofy shit that appeals to them and their cultish audience above anything else. The only serious attempts made to bring in new viewers are big signings and they do bring them, they just can’t keep them because the garbage is so prominent and off putting for anyone isn’t already in the cult.


Whilst I don't agree there is that much awful stuff, I actually agree with some of your comments. There is always room for improvement. In their first year I gave them a long term average of 5.5-6/10. Since then it has improved to about 7-7.5/10. My argument is simply that is is better than WWE and should be rating as such. But I truly believe if they put on regular 10/10 shows and brought in every big talent (sans the rock) viewership wouldn't increase that much. I would like to be wrong as I want to see them succeed.


----------



## Prosper

DaveRA said:


> Whilst I don't agree there is that much awful stuff, I actually agree with some of your comments. There is always room for improvement. In their first year I gave them a long term average of 5.5-6/10. Since then it has improved to about 7-7.5/10.* My argument is simply that is is better than WWE and should be rating as such.* But I truly believe if they put on regular 10/10 shows and brought in every big talent (sans the rock) viewership wouldn't increase that much. I would like to be wrong as I want to see them succeed.


At the same time though we shouldn’t be basing a potential growing *cable* audience as the primary success metric. We should all know better at this point. They are very successful as it stands now and are outpacing WWE in ticket sales in a lot of markets with similar capacity venues. It’ll be hard to put on 10/10 shows every week they’d just be blowing their load at every opportunity.


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> At the same time though we shouldn’t be basing a potential growing *cable* audience as the primary success metric. We should all know better at this point. They are very successful as it stands now and are outpacing WWE in ticket sales in a lot of markets with similar capacity venues. It’ll be hard to put on 10/10 shows every week they’d just be blowing their load at every opportunity.


Well when you got Joey buried on dark and no 15 minute opening promo you can't expect to get a 10/10 weekly show.


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> Well when you got Joey buried on dark and no 15 minute opening promo you can't expect to get a 10/10 weekly show.


Joey Janela lol thats your boy


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1458901184404721664

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CovidFan

Another week, another rating between 800k and 1.2M. Let the "excuses" and hating commence!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1458901184404721664
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


not bad - bit low for a go-home

guess the westcoast thing is still a thing then


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

* Well, at least they went up from last week's awful number. I don't have much bad to say about the show itself besides the Orange Cassidy fuck up.*


----------



## DammitChrist

Ehh, I'll take it.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Alright, boys. The other side gets to gloat for the week now.


----------



## RapShepard

Wonder if Page winning will turn around the ratings after a few weeks


----------



## RainmakerV2

RapShepard said:


> Wonder if Page winning will turn around the ratings after a few weeks



No.


----------



## RapShepard

RainmakerV2 said:


> No.


I'm rooting for him tho


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> I'm rooting for him tho


*Same energy as always from me. Bryan or bust.*


----------



## Buhalovski

"ThEy WiLL Be BaCk At 1m In A FeW WeEkS"


----------



## The XL 2

Its a niche product. Their is nothing wrong with that, but the program has limited mainstream appeal. It reminds me very much of ECW in 1999 and 2000. The only reason it feels like their is a war is due to WWE bleeding out nearly all of their fanbase.


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> *Same energy as always from me. Bryan or bust.*


Bryan's a good choice too, but it'd be fun to see this story wrapped up nice without another holding off


----------



## Mr316

Yeah. There’s no way a show like last night will ever draw 1.5 million viewers. Doesn’t mean the show sucks. It’s just the type of show that will only appeal to hardcore wrestling fans.


----------



## 3venflow

+4% in P2+ and +3% in 18-49 from last week but still not at the numbers they were before TNT shifted them to Saturdays. Would it benefit AEW to go back to being non-live on the west coast?

Here are the cable rankings. AEW Dynamite finished an impressive #3 this week (behind only NBA) in the most important metric after finishing #6 last week.


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## Undertaker23RKO

Last two weeks have been brutal in the ratings.


----------



## rbl85

Undertaker23RKO said:


> Last two weeks have been brutal in the ratings.


Not too long ago 900+K was great rating.

It's a pretty good rating.

Also since last week every wrestlings shows ratings are down.


----------



## CovidFan

The Legit DMD said:


> *Same energy as always from me. Bryan or bust.*


Agreed. 

I think ratings will dip the second Dynamite of Hangman's reign. It's gonna take Bryan to be champ in the main event slot on the main show to get ratings to their current potential (1.1-1.3m IMO).


----------



## rbl85

CovidFan said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I think ratings will dip the second Dynamite of Hangman's reign. It's gonna take Bryan to be champ in the main event slot on the main show to get ratings to their current potential.


Dynamite have done 1.2+M with Page/Omega headlining the shows so....

Once Dynamite is on TBS the show will not be live on the west coast and i can already hear "excuses, excuses !" but it's true the show being live on west coast is hurting them. If it wasn't live then last night show would have done 1+M


----------



## CovidFan

rbl85 said:


> Dynamite have done 1.2+M with Page/Omega headlining the shows so....


"..." indeed. You should clarify that to "1.2M+ with Page/Omega headlining a mega event show" as that's only one of two to do over 1.2M since April and the other show was clearly up to Bryan. What I clearly meant was do it consistently and without needing huge shows and huge debuts to do so. So....


----------



## rbl85

CovidFan said:


> "..." indeed. You should clarify that to "1.2M+ with Page/Omega headlining a mega event show" as that's only one of two to do over 1.2M since April and the other show was clearly up to Bryan. What I clearly meant was do it consistently and without needing huge shows and huge debuts to do so. So....


Bryan have been more on screen than Page or Omega during the last weeks so if i follow your logic he should take some blame


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Wonder if Page winning will turn around the ratings after a few weeks


babyfaces do better on top normally i think?


----------



## CovidFan

rbl85 said:


> Bryan have been more on screen than Page or Omega during the last weeks so if i follow your logic he should take some blame


Not gonna go in circles with you. Bryan needs the belt and main event slot on tv for better ratings. End of. and that's my opinion.


----------



## 3venflow

People have linear views and think putting the gold belt on an older star will instantly change ratings.

The reality is, TNT and Tony Khan won't give a flying f**k about + or - 200,000 people. Their eyes are primarily on one metric, which Tony Khan has *clearly stated*, but every single week it's ignored by a select few. It's that 0.34 (which is good enough and #3 best of every show on cable BUT they have shown they can go much higher than that) that they want to get as high as possible. Obviously having more total viewers is helpful as the more viewers you have, the more young(er) people you're likely to have. But 900k + 0.35 >>> 1.2m + 0.31.

The overall viewership would be 1m+ now anyway had they not shifted the west coast timeslot. I just read that will move back to how it was in January when they switch to TBS.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> People have linear views and think putting the gold belt on an older star will instantly change ratings.
> 
> The reality is, TNT and Tony Khan won't give a flying f**k about + or - 200,000 people. Their eyes are primarily on one metric, which Tony Khan has *clearly stated*, but every single week it's ignored by a select few. It's that 0.34 (which is good enough and #3 best of every show on cable BUT they have shown they can go much higher than that) that they want to get as high as possible. Obviously having more total viewers is helpful as the more viewers you have, the more young(er) people you're likely to have. But 900k + 0.35 >>> 1.2m + 0.31.
> 
> The overall viewership would be 1m+ now anyway had they not shifted the west coast timeslot. I just read that will move back to how it was in January when they switch to TBS.


Its interesting that it’ll move back

i’m wondering if this is a ploy by TNT / AEW

move to TBS, bang - suddenly ratings are 1.2 / 0.47 again - looks real nice for adjusted rate cards in 2022


----------



## RapShepard

Delete


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> babyfaces do better on top normally i think?


I don't know honestly


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1458923019448037388

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Erik.

Nearly 200k up on last year's numbers. 

In all honesty, not sure we can expect to see them do much better until they're on TBS and free from the timezone issues.


----------



## yeahright2

Ratings are in
AEW Ratings prediction game
@Prized Fighter won this week 

For a go-home show, you´d think they would do a little better, but at least they were up from last week. Can´t say I´m surprised by the drop from the tag match and the Miro/Yuta match. I like Sydal and Dante, but they´re not exactly top stars, and Lio does nothing to attract viewers either.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

yeahright2 said:


> Ratings are in
> AEW Ratings prediction game
> @Prized Fighter won this week
> 
> For a go-home show, you´d think they would do a little better, but at least they were up from last week. Can´t say I´m surprised by the drop from the tag match and the Miro/Yuta match. I like Sydal and Dante, but they´re not exactly top stars, and Lio does nothing to attract viewers either.


*Lio had the match of his life and his grandma just died yesterday, so I'm not saying a bad word about him. *


----------



## Joe Gill

no surprise the ratings tanked during the indy geeks tag match. When is TK going to learn to keep that garbage on Dark?


----------



## Jay Trotter

Bryan's low opening proves just slapping the title on him isn't the answer to anything as suggested in earlier posts. It was the same on Rampage last week as on Dynamite last night where the quarter trend went higher after he kicked off the night. Matches for the sake of having Matches aren't going to draw flies to crap whether it's in the main event or not. Bryan is falling in the same rut as Punk in between Darby and Kingston. You gotta have some type of story and toss in some promos to build it up.


----------



## Randy Lahey

TBS will give them better ratings due to higher rated lead ins and the West Coast issue. Bottomline is more people are able to watch at 8pm West Coast time than 5pm. It’s basically 25% of their audience not able to watch in prime time currently.


----------



## Dark Emperor

November & December has always been a down period for wrestling. Mainly due to WWE phoning it in until the New Year until the build to Royal Rumble.

So their ratings always goes down then and maybe this has an overall effect on AEW too. I doubt AEW will see the heights of the ratings they enjoyed first few weeks of Bryan's debut for a while. It very hard to get fans to stick around tbh.


----------



## Randy Lahey

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1458923019448037388
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looks like not many people cared for the Martin/Rush tag match or Dax/PAC.


----------



## omaroo

The west coast live thing is certainly affecting them.

Not sure why they had to change that just go non live and im sure they would be doing 1 million regularly.


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Its interesting that it’ll move back
> 
> i’m wondering if this is a ploy by TNT / AEW
> 
> move to TBS, bang - suddenly ratings are 1.2 / 0.47 again - looks real nice for adjusted rate cards in 2022


Dynamite is live on the west coast because of the NHL that's why once Dynamite is on TBS it will be back to it's usual time slot


----------



## rbl85

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1458923019448037388
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Jungle Boy doing strong 

Also Omega and Page doing really good


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1458923019448037388
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


@The Legit DMD

did the bucks tank the ratings?


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Do we actually think ratings will be higher on TBS? It's a lesser network and I don't know if simply changing channels will have Dynamite back up to the millions again.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Do we actually think ratings will be higher on TBS? It's a lesser network and I don't know if simply changing channels will have Dynamite back up to the millions again.


its the timezone thing

half the usa is still in their cars driving home from work when Dynamite is on

TBS solves that again


----------



## DammitChrist

Joe Gill said:


> no surprise the ratings tanked during the indy geeks tag match. When is TK going to learn to keep that garbage on Dark?


No, Lio Rush deserved to be on TV, and I saw NO "geeks" in that match.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DammitChrist said:


> No, Lio Rush deserved to be on TV, and I saw NO "geeks" in that match.


100%

was a great match

only time on tv will let lesser known names get shine


----------



## Chan Hung

rbl85 said:


> Jungle Boy doing strong
> 
> Also Omega and Page doing really good


Looks like Romero vs Bryan did not draw and obviously so. Note to Tony to try to caution about starting their top tier show with a jobber in the match.


----------



## chronoxiong

I still can't watch this show in the west coast at 8pm pst guys. It sucks. I have to resort to watching Dynamite on this one site that I visit often.


----------



## DaSlacker

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 100%
> 
> was a great match
> 
> only time on tv will let lesser known names get shine


I thought Lio Rush was either a bit off or rusty to be honest. There were times Sydal and Moriarty had to bump like crazy for flimsy offence. Dante Martin was excellent. Moriarty has potential but is his attacking moves are a bit weak.


----------



## rbl85

Chan Hung said:


> Looks like Romero vs Bryan did not draw and obviously so. Note to Tony to try to caution about starting their top tier show with a jobber in the match.


Hey if having Romero face Bryan help having Okada appearing on Dynamite or an AWE PPV then i'll take that match everyday


----------



## RainmakerV2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> its the timezone thing
> 
> half the usa is still in their cars driving home from work when Dynamite is on
> 
> TBS solves that again



Half? Lol, it's 7 central and 8 in the East. 6 in the scarcely populated mountain. How the fuck does that equal half the country?


----------



## Jay Trotter

Dynamite airing live on the West Coast needs to be short term. Same negative effect as Lakers playoff games that started at 8pm on the East back in the day. Fans stuck in the 5pm traffic jam not showing up until late 1st quarter. It's hurting AEW in the ratings enough to keep them below 1 million. Just really stupid. Common sense is needed. Pain in the ass change.


----------



## bdon

Randy Lahey said:


> TBS will give them better ratings due to higher rated lead ins and the West Coast issue. Bottomline is more people are able to watch at 8pm West Coast time than 5pm. It’s basically 25% of their audience not able to watch in prime time currently.


Apparently this is a hard concept for some to understand.


----------



## bdon

Jay Trotter said:


> Dynamite airing live on the West Coast needs to be short term. Same negative effect as Lakers playoff games that started at 8pm on the East back in the day. Fans stuck in the 5pm traffic jam not showing up until late 1st quarter. It's hurting AEW in the ratings enough to keep them below 1 million. Just really stupid. Common sense is needed. Pain in the ass change.


Yep. And the 10:30 pm Lakers games losing a lot of East Coast fans who simply couldn’t stay up til 1am to watch.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> @The Legit DMD
> 
> did the bucks tank the ratings?


No, Britt did judging by HIS logic.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> No, Britt did judging by HIS logic.


You can clearly see the dotted lines going down after all....XD


----------



## bdon

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Do we actually think ratings will be higher on TBS? It's a lesser network and I don't know if simply changing channels will have Dynamite back up to the millions again.


I expect changing the channel, despite TBS being in most homes, will negatively affect AEW.

As The Wood said, no matter how good or awfula product is, all it takes is a few TV execs trying to get smart by changing the time, day, or even channel to ruin a wrestling show. All in an effort thinking they can prop that other time, day, or channel by loving wrestling to it.

And that is how shows get cancelled.

Praying TK inks a deal elsewhere.


----------



## Joe Gill

anyone who thinks a midget like Lio is going to be a draw is clueless. Half of the roster brings no value at all to AEW ratings...people see these indy looking wrestlers and change the channel. They should be only used on rare occasions as jobbers for the top 20 talents. Instead TK continues to force them down everyone throat and give them storylines, interviews, 50/50 matches and even wins on dynamite. Its just stupid at this point. When is Daniel Bryan going to get a proper storyline? Miro should have attacked him after the match...instead we get vanilla midget tag matches that only a few hardcore fans care about. TK really starting to piss me off. Such a great roster yet every week we have to sit through crap like dork order and flippy midgets.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> @The Legit DMD
> 
> did the bucks tank the ratings?


*Omega and Hangman increased them in two spots, so good for them.*


----------



## yeahright2

The Legit DMD said:


> *Omega and Hangman increased them in two spots, so good for them.*


Agreed. That quarter was due to Punk/Kingston and Omega/Hangman.


----------



## DaSlacker

bdon said:


> I expect changing the channel, despite TBS being in most homes, will negatively affect AEW.
> 
> As The Wood said, no matter how good or awfula product is, all it takes is a few TV execs trying to get smart by changing the time, day, or even channel to ruin a wrestling show. All in an effort thinking they can prop that other time, day, or channel by loving wrestling to it.
> 
> And that is how shows get cancelled.
> 
> Praying TK inks a deal elsewhere.


Anything can happen but TNT/TBS was said to be bidding for SmackDown back in 2018 and pulled out when it went above $150 million. That tells me they are likely happy enough with what they are spending on AEW. TBS in itself is a similar network to USA and the deal for Rampage and quarterly specials now places them across two networks. 

In reality it is hard to predict what will happen. Don't rule out a merger between HBO Max and Peacock. When you think about it, that could have huge ramifications for the US wrestling scene.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Erik. said:


> Nearly 200k up on last year's numbers.


Last years was competing with NXT.

Last year 1.396 million people were watching wrestling on a Wednesday night, AEW not even close to that.


----------



## DammitChrist

Chip Chipperson said:


> Last years was competing with NXT.
> 
> Last year 1.396 million people were watching wrestling on a Wednesday night, AEW not even close to that.


Hey, dude, I have a random question.

What did you think of Lio Rush’s performance in that tag match last night?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> Hey, dude, I have a random question.
> 
> What did you think of Lio Rush’s performance in that tag match last night?


Haven't seen it but I'm not a workrate guy really.


----------



## thorn123

I never really thought about ratings til I found WF. I just wanted the relevant programme to stay on the air and keep producing entertaining content. I should try and get back to that.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Hangman/Omega contract signing doing really well is great to see. They advertised the segment as the main event/big deal and it seems to have paid off to a degree (the overall number's not as high as it should've been, but it's a really good showing for the quarter within the show itself).


----------



## Mister Sinister

This is how f'd up and indefensible the booking is on the show-- Lio Rush debuted over a month ago did he not? They did the same thing with debuting Andrade and not having him wrestle for a month. Why would anyone do this? They went a month or more before Punk actually wrestled a f'n match on Wednesday night. This isn't just poor booking-- it's completely batshit and creatively lost. This is the worst booking I've ever seen in wrestling, ever. And I once watched the Nature Boy strut with a bunch of mental patients in a nut house.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Mister Sinister said:


> This is how f'd up and indefensible the booking is on the show-- Lio Rush debuted over a month ago did he not? They did the same thing with debuting Andrade and not having him wrestle for a month. Why would anyone do this? They went a month or more before Punk actually wrestled a f'n match on Wednesday night. This isn't just poor booking-- it's completely batshit and creatively lost. This is the worst booking I've ever seen in wrestling, ever. And I once watched the Nature Boy strut with a bunch of mental patients in a nut house.


Nah. I've watched a lot of bad wrestling and this doesn't even come close to the worst. No offense to you, but wrestling fans tend to have a lot of recency bias and hyperbole in general when talking about the modern stuff. I doubt anyone is topping the insanity of Vince Russo at his most deranged and concussed in 2000. I've seen every episode of Nitro in 2000 at least three times so I know batshit, insane wrestling. Or even California Championship Wrestling. Try to even sit through an episode of that. Or watching XPW unironically.

That being said WWE's done a lot of things over the recent years that, if it had happened in 2000 WCW, we'd still get people making fun of it 20 years later and acting like it's the worst stuff ever. Imagine Jeff Jarrett getting eaten by zombies or Kidman getting his eye gouged out in 2000 WCW. Or Dean Ambrose losing to an exploding TV and a ghost. Or the Rollins/Fiend HIAC ending. Nobody would ever shut up about it but it's just another show in WWE these days lol.

AEW reminds me more of 2011-2013 TNA if I had to make a comparison. TNA iMPACT! even won show of the year in the 2012 Observer Awards so that's not an insult lol. There's still plenty of things I don't care for though.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RainmakerV2 said:


> Half? Lol, it's 7 central and 8 in the East. 6 in the scarcely populated mountain. How the fuck does that equal half the country?


Its on at 5 in West coast isn’t it?

i dunno mate - 25% of the country then?

which if you think a potential climb of 900k to 1.2m again makes sense


----------



## Garty

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Its on at 5 in West coast isn’t it?
> 
> i dunno mate - 25% of the country then?
> 
> which if you think a potential climb of 900k to 1.2m again makes sense


You're right here, don't listen to him. 5PM to 7PM is when the show airs in the western time zone. Only 8PM to 11PM, on both coasts, is considered "prime-time" viewing. Without that prime-time viewing on the west coast, it's going to hurt the overall number because it's out of the norm.

California, Nevada, Washington, Oregon and half of Idaho. The first three, are very big markets.


----------



## IronMan8

Chip Chipperson said:


> Haven't seen it but I'm not a workrate guy really.


I'm not a workrate guy either, but the cool thing about that match was how the crowd booed Lio when he was first tagged in... but then the second time he was tagged in... they popped.

I've never seen a crowd do a complete 180 on a talent mid-match like that before.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

GNKenny said:


> AEW reminds me more of 2011-2013 TNA if I had to make a comparison. TNA iMPACT! even won show of the year in the 2012 Observer Awards so that's not an insult lol. There's still plenty of things I don't care for though.


*Aces and Eights was one of the worst storylines in wrestling history. Hogan and Bischoff joining Impact sent them on a fast track to hell. Comparing 2011-2013 TNA to AEW is definitely a bad thing. WWE doing dumb shit themselves doesn't make it any better.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

IronMan8 said:


> I'm not a workrate guy either, but the cool thing about that match was how the crowd booed Lio when he was first tagged in... but then the second time he was tagged in... they popped.
> 
> I've never seen a crowd do a complete 180 on a talent mid-match like that before.


Yeah - lol, they were chanting his name in that 2nd sequence

you know what got me - those quick misdirections he did while running the ropes

i was like ‘whaaaaaa?’ - shit looked cool


----------



## GothicBohemian

I normally pay no attention to ratings but, since I have a few minutes this morning, I decided to take a peek at this thread. There was a minimal fluctuation in viewer numbers,and the differences are less pronounced in the 18-49 demographic, so nothing really stands out as losing/gaining except:

1) Punk/Kingston and Omega/Hangman seem to be what those who flip channels while watching stop for.
2) The least-watched segment was the Rush/Martin vs Sydal/Moriarity tag match, which the live crowd popped for, and the most-watched was Omega/Hangman at a table.

I loved the tag match and was bored by the contract signing. I guess I can conclude I don't enjoy the same kind of wrestling as mainstream American fans who aren't hardcore enough to attend shows but who will watch on television sometimes, especially those 50 and over, but I sort of already knew that. 

*EDIT:* Something else that just occurred to me:

How much did Twitter hinting about Omega/Hangman and CHAOS influence people checking their segments, if at all?


----------



## DammitChrist

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Yeah - lol, they were chanting his name in that 2nd sequence
> 
> you know what got me - those quick misdirections he did while running the ropes
> 
> i was like ‘whaaaaaa?’ - shit looked cool


Oh yea, Lio Rush has been doing those quick misdirections since his time on 205 Live back in summer of 2018. 

I always kinda pop when he does that


----------



## Alright_Mate

It’s easy for crowds to pop for Lio Rush, because he is an exciting talent to watch. ROH had a show in my hometown a few years back, to this day, Lio Rush is still by far the best performer I’ve ever seen live.

In terms of his match and it’s ratings though, I’m not surprised it drew the lowest. The guys involved in that match are just not investable enough, viewers probably saw this match and thought “Why should I care about these guys”, AEW gives you no reason to, hence why many probably changed the channel.

Workrate matches are fantastic to get live crowds going, when it comes to viewers watching at home though, sometimes it’s the opposite.


----------



## The_Great_One21

Literally doing the same numbers they were BEFORE adding Punk and Bryan whilst they were directly against NXT.
Pathetic.


----------



## omaroo

So is it true for sure the West coast time slot will be back to normal when they are on TBS in January?


----------



## DammitChrist

The_Great_One21 said:


> Literally doing the same numbers they were BEFORE adding Punk and Bryan whilst they were directly against NXT.
> Pathetic.


Nah, it’s not ‘pathetic.’ It’s pretty solid considering the current/recent situation with the West Coast viewers being unable to tune in live on the evenings.


----------



## Garty

omaroo said:


> So is it true for sure the West coast time slot will be back to normal when they are on TBS in January?


I'm going to assume yes, it's true. Why? There's no NHL games scheduled to be played on TBS on Wednesday nights, only TNT. So there's no need to split the coasts once the switch is made, as an NHL game the way it is now on TNT, is live at 10PM E and 7PM P, whereas Dynamite airs live at 8PM E and 5PM P. On TBS, it will be 8PM E and 8PM P the way it has always been on TNT, until the live coast-to-coast switch three weeks ago.

I found this article:
_Turner Sports and the NHL announced a seven-year media rights agreement April 27 that will have regular-season and postseason games televised on TNT and TBS starting this season and running through 2027-28. Turner Sports will televise all Stanley Cup Final games in 2023, 2025 and 2027, one conference final series each season, and half of the first two rounds of the Stanley Cup Playoffs, plus 72 regular-season games per season including the NHL Winter Classic in each of the seven seasons of the deal. The first of exclusive coverage on 25 Wednesday nights throughout the season, which includes 15 doubleheaders. TNT will also televise seven weeks of Sunday afternoon games in March and April._


----------



## omaroo

Garty said:


> I'm going to assume yes, it's true. Why? There's no NHL games scheduled to be played on TBS on Wednesday nights, only TNT. So there's no need to split the coasts once the switch is made, as an NHL game the way it is now on TNT, is live at 10PM E and 7PM P, whereas Dynamite airs live at 8PM E and 5PM P. On TBS, it will be 8PM E and 8PM P the way it has always been on TNT, until the live coast-to-coast switch three weeks ago.
> 
> I found this article:
> _Turner Sports and the NHL announced a seven-year media rights agreement April 27 that will have regular-season and postseason games televised on TNT and TBS starting this season and running through 2027-28. Turner Sports will televise all Stanley Cup Final games in 2023, 2025 and 2027, one conference final series each season, and half of the first two rounds of the Stanley Cup Playoffs, plus 72 regular-season games per season including the NHL Winter Classic in each of the seven seasons of the deal. The first of exclusive coverage on 25 Wednesday nights throughout the season, which includes 15 doubleheaders. TNT will also televise seven weeks of Sunday afternoon games in March and April._


Hope so mate. 

As the 1-1.2 million will range will be back if the normal time in West Coast is changed back in January. 

Because atm all we are hearing is they have "lost viewers" and all the rest of the hate as usual.


----------



## Garty

omaroo said:


> Hope so mate.
> 
> As the 1-1.2 million will range will be back if the normal time in West Coast is changed back in January.
> 
> Because atm all we are hearing is they have "lost viewers" and all the rest of the hate as usual.


The west coast timezone TV schedule, is about 23% of what makes up the USA.










The time zones from East (right) to West (left) are Eastern, Central, Mountain, Pacific, Alaska, and Hawaii.


----------



## RapShepard

Garty said:


> The west coast timezone TV schedule, is about 23% of what makes up the USA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The time zones from East (right) to West (left) are Eastern, Central, Mountain, Pacific, Alaska, and Hawaii.


Closer to 17%


----------



## Garty

RapShepard said:


> Closer to 17%


I guess I was looking at old/wrong data. 

Take it to 10% and use that as a barometer vs the weeks overall rating and that should be a true number. So for example, this week was 913,000, add approximately 90,000 to that and you're back over 1 million.

Until the move to TBS, this looks like the average overall rating for the next 7 weeks.


----------



## RapShepard

Garty said:


> I guess I was looking at old/wrong data.
> 
> Take it to 10% and use that as a barometer vs the weeks overall rating and that should be a true number. So for example, this week was 913,000, add approximately 90,000 to that and you're over 1 million.


Seems fair to me.

Though I must say if they were trap AEW fans they'd quit their job and already be home


----------



## the_flock

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, it’s not ‘pathetic.’ It’s pretty solid considering the current/recent situation with the West Coast viewers being unable to tune in live on the evenings.


If that was NXT though, you would be laughing at them talking about how bad the product is.


----------



## DammitChrist

the_flock said:


> If that was NXT though, you would be laughing at them talking about how bad the product is.


I loved Indy NXT though, so no, I’d give them the benefit of the doubt too.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Garty said:


> You're right here, don't listen to him. 5PM to 7PM is when the show airs in the western time zone. Only 8PM to 11PM, on both coasts, is considered "prime-time" viewing. Without that prime-time viewing on the west coast, it's going to hurt the overall number because it's out of the norm.
> 
> California, Nevada, Washington, Oregon and half of Idaho. The first three, are very big markets.


Dude. He literally said "half the country " wasnt home from work yet when Dynamite aired. That's just an objectively asinine assessment and has you have been shown, it isn't even a quarter of the country. It's not even a fifth.

I don't expect an apology or anything. It's all good.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RainmakerV2 said:


> Dude. He literally said "half the country " wasnt home from work yet when Dynamite aired. That's just an objectively asinine assessment and has you have been shown, it isn't even a quarter of the country. It's not even a fifth.
> 
> I don't expect an apology or anything. It's all good.


Its a good thing we aren’t prone to hyperbolic statements on here

you’re right rainmaker, i said ‘half the country’ out of my ignorance of your countries’ many timezones

i prostate myself before you and beg for your forgiveness

asinine fornever against good sir


----------



## RainmakerV2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Its a good thing we aren’t prone to hyperbolic statements on here
> 
> you’re right rainmaker, i said ‘half the country’ out of my ignorance of your countries’ many timezones
> 
> i prostate myself before you and beg for your forgiveness
> 
> asinine fornever against good sir



Acknowledged. Ahyessir.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RainmakerV2 said:


> Acknowledged. Ahyessir.


Huzzah!


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

The Legit DMD said:


> *Aces and Eights was one of the worst storylines in wrestling history. Hogan and Bischoff joining Impact sent them on a fast track to hell. Comparing 2011-2013 TNA to AEW is definitely a bad thing. WWE doing dumb shit themselves doesn't make it any better.*


lol it's honestly the closest thing I can think of to compare if I was forced to do so. You're right it had a lot of garbage but stuff like the rise of Bobby Roode, Austin Aries cashing in on Option C etc was great. AEW is also a mixed bag for me most of the time...though I'll admit so far they've done nothing as bad as Claire Lynch.

Though, as someone who watched every episode of TNA iMPACT up until that point, they were already going down a bad path in 2009. That's another discussion tho lol. Still don't get how the bumbled The Pope. I thought he was gonna be the top guy of that company for years on end.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

GNKenny said:


> lol it's honestly the closest thing I can think of to compare if I was forced to do so. You're right it had a lot of garbage but stuff like the rise of Bobby Roode, Austin Aries cashing in on Option C etc was great. AEW is also a mixed bag for me most of the time...though I'll admit so far they've done nothing as bad as Claire Lynch.
> 
> Though, as someone who watched every episode of TNA iMPACT up until that point, they were already going down a bad path in 2009. That's another discussion tho lol. Still don't get how the bumbled The Pope. I thought he was gonna be the top guy of that company for years on end.


*I enjoyed the Main Event Mafia tbh. What did you hate about 2009?*


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

The Legit DMD said:


> *I enjoyed the Main Event Mafia tbh. What did you hate about 2009?*


Honestly it's been so long since I've watched that I only really remember hating The Front Line story. Also Mick Foley as TNA Champion really annoyed me. I just remember not liking that year at all and then 2010 was worse (obviously). I also really liked the MEM but, if I remember right, there wasn't ever a payoff. It just kinda ended when Booker T left the company.

Seriously tho, once Hogan and Bischoff came into TNA in 2010 it's like The Pope's push disappeared. Hated that.




how'd they screw this guy up....lol


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Legit DMD said:


> *Aces and Eights was one of the worst storylines in wrestling history. Hogan and Bischoff joining Impact sent them on a fast track to hell. Comparing 2011-2013 TNA to AEW is definitely a bad thing. WWE doing dumb shit themselves doesn't make it any better.*


You might have hated Aces and Eights but I think its agreed upon that it was a really good angle at the time and looking back on it.

2011-2013 TNA was pretty good, not perfect but much better than the Dub...


----------



## GothicBohemian

Aces and Eights started strong but fell apart quickly because TNA wasn't delivering on the hype they created. Coupled with all the Hogan nonsense, I'd say the beginning of the end was in full swing even though this was also when guys like Aries, Roode and EC3 were reaching the height of their popularity.


----------



## omaroo

TNA didnt really want to make stars sadly. They were only interested in pushing EX WWE/WCW/ECW stars.

They have so much potential to be something but they absolutely fucked up royally.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

omaroo said:


> TNA didnt really want to make stars sadly. They were only interested in pushing EX WWE/WCW/ECW stars.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Chip Chipperson said:


> You might have hated Aces and Eights but I think its agreed upon that it was a really good angle at the time and looking back on it.
> 
> 2011-2013 TNA was pretty good, not perfect but much better than the Dub...


*The Rock's return was the only highlight of WWE at that time, but it was still better than anything TNA had to offer. Aces & Eights was awful with or without hindsight. It was bad then and my feelings haven't changed due to nostalgia. Immortal (and hard drugs) made Jeff Hardy unwatchable and I've been a big fan of his for two decades.*


----------



## GothicBohemian

When I think of Jeff Hardy and TNA, this is where my mind goes. I'm still not sure if Willow was the worst gimmick or the best bad thing in modern wrestling history. 





WHY IS THE VIDEO SO DAMN HUGE?????
I assume this is another WF 'upgrade'.


----------



## omaroo

Chip Chipperson said:


>


It's funny you put those images up. 

Apart from the top 2 and maybe Aries you can say they are stars TNA built. 

But even then they should have been much bigger but the shit and utter nonsense booking of these guys especially with hogan and bischoff came in threw all that hard work down the pan. 

Instead of being fully behind the "originals" they and wrestlers from the bigger companies of before at the forefront. When they should have used to elevate the originals to new heights. 

Even the MEM storyline was a joke as they were nearly always strong and booked that way yet the young guys were always booked no where close to their level. 

So carry on with such ridiculous statements as that's what you and a few others love to do.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

omaroo said:


> Instead of being fully behind the "originals" they and wrestlers from the bigger companies of before at the forefront. When they should have used to elevate the originals to new heights.


I mean during the Eric and Hulk run we saw the Aries, Roode, Sabin and Storm main event runs. AJ got paired up with Flair which I thought was silly but still its Ric Flair...Abyss got paired up with Hogan which again was silly but its Hulk Hogan...

Your argument wasn't that they pushed young guys who should've been bigger stars though your argument is that TNA never was interested in pushing any which is incorrect.


----------



## DaSlacker

omaroo said:


> It's funny you put those images up.
> 
> Apart from the top 2 and maybe Aries you can say they are stars TNA built.
> 
> But even then they should have been much bigger but the shit and utter nonsense booking of these guys especially with hogan and bischoff came in threw all that hard work down the pan.
> 
> Instead of being fully behind the "originals" they and wrestlers from the bigger companies of before at the forefront. When they should have used to elevate the originals to new heights.
> 
> Even the MEM storyline was a joke as they were nearly always strong and booked that way yet the young guys were always booked no where close to their level.
> 
> So carry on with such ridiculous statements as that's what you and a few others love to do.


The other problem there was the gap between the MEM guys and the TNA Front Line in terms of star aura. That's not a knock on AJ, Joe, Daniels, Young and the MCMGs. It's just that they are very different wrestlers. The size and promo ability factors kicked in too. Styles looked like a child next to Nash. 40 something Booker T looked and acted cooler than 20 something Joe. Steiner could make anybody seem dull by comparison. Nobody on the Frontline side could cut work the microphone as good as Kurt. Plus you still had Jarrett and Russo's divisive booking. 

By the time Roode and Storm were put over the company had lost a lot of momentum and goodwill.


----------



## The_Great_One21

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, it’s not ‘pathetic.’ It’s pretty solid considering the current/recent situation with the West Coast viewers being unable to tune in live on the evenings.


Keep telling yourself that. What would they be doing with the West Coast numbers? 1.1m maybe? So yeah, again… numbers they were doing before Punk and Bryan were signed. You add the 2 biggest stars of the previous decade, one of which hasn’t wrestled in 7 years and the other who was the literal Wrestlemania main event this year, and you can’t grow your audience.

It’s dire.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1459573668883976194

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1459573668883976194
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So it’ll end up being flat - as it normally changes by about 20%


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Rampage had nothing going for it this week. It’ll probably just scrape 500k, but could end up being lowest viewed episode (will probably be 2nd lowest though).


----------



## Chan Hung

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1459573668883976194
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


480k sounds about right. It appears that now, according to the numbers that for Rampage they killed off all their casuals and worse, even their own base is not tuning in as before.That should be a red flag for Tony. Granted, the show was utter trash and the numbers represent and align with the lazy booking and lack of care now given to Rampage. Its very disappointing, considering they have signed up so many better quality stars you can host on a national program. Yet, there is a fascination to continue to feature the lowest tier job guys as if this was an unknown tv network. If they continue to keep Rampage uninteresting and with the same low tier job guys, they may face an issue come renewal time for cable.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Jesus Christ that is fucking bad.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Seems fair to me.
> 
> Though I must say if they were trap AEW fans they'd quit their job and already be home


”True” AEW fans live in momma’s basement. 

The rest of us just enjoy a good show and shitting on Cody rHHHodes. Hah


----------



## Soul Rex

What are AEW PPV numbers? If anyone would post them here I would be very grateful.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Soul Rex said:


> What are AEW PPV numbers? If anyone would post them here I would be very grateful.


We won’t know Full Gear until a month maybe

but supposedly All Out did 225k buys / not sure if that is just USA or usa and worldwide combined


----------



## 3venflow

Full Gear has traditionally been the least purchased PPV, but I think/hope it will be up on 2019 and 2020.

All Out 2021 will remain AEW's most bought PPV for a long time I feel since it had the Punk return and promise of Danielson debuting. That was the biggest PPV buyrate for a non-WWE show since Halloween Havoc 1999.


----------



## Whoanma

What of their 4 PPVs would you say is AEW's equivalent to Wrestlemania/Starrcade?


----------



## 3venflow

Double or Nothing seems to be biggest on paper since it was their debut show, but to be honest it doesn't really feel like any of them are more important than the others.


----------



## 3venflow

Here's TK on Rampage and its numbers. Doesn't sound like it'll be changing timeslots any time soon. His last point is something many have argued to the willfully ignorant on here time after time. It's hard to increase ratings when millions of people cut the cord. Unless AEW gets on network TV like Smackdown, it's likely to be a case of stability and consistency is good.

*Tony Khan on the numbers for AEW Rampage:* “The numbers that we do are still one of the top shows. I think sometimes people think that the number that you do for Dynamite should be the exact number you do for Rampage, but it’s really an apples to oranges comparison. It’s frequently the number one show in its time slot and it’s beating everything we’ve faced head to head. Very often it’s been one of the top shows, if not the number one show a number of times even out of that time slot on all of Friday night TV. Frequently it’s in the top 4 or 5 so what we do out of that slot is very impressive. They’re really happy with the show, the fans they see if it doesn’t do as big a number as Dynamite to them it’s not as good. The fact is for the time slot it’s in, it’s performed really well and they’re really happy with it so I’m thrilled with it because it’s a great franchise for us. If it were ever to change and be in a different slot I would be the best I could in that slot too and whatever the standard is, if it were a slot where the averages were higher than we’d have to do a higher average. But the spot we’re in we do really really well. So yeah, it’s funny but the weeks that the Fast Nationals don’t leak it’s always a pretty good number, I wonder why. I wonder who leaks them. That’s subjective on their part. We all know what’s happening, I don’t think it’s particularly to their benefit.”

*Khan on how the network is happy with Rampage’s performance:* “It’s done really well and ask the network in the slot how they feel about it. It’s really good but I get that Dynamite is in a more attractive time slot and that’s also why I put so many awesome matches that would make Rampage a destination for a hardcore wrestling viewer no matter where they go. Even if they have to turn it on in somebody else’s house, in a bar, on their phone, you don’t want to miss Bryan Danielson vs. Eddie Kingston. You don’t want to miss Andrade vs. PAC 2, these are really special matches. Even trying to put something cool last night it was like a throwback to an old cruiserweight match with Dante [Martin] and Ariya [Daivari] where it’s two babyfaces but they were both from here. I definitely think it’s cool having wrestling on Friday nights even if it’s not the best time to draw viewers. There’s something to it, a lot of us grew up on that and it’s a great block and if you’re a wrestling fan that wants to watch everything, there’s a lot of great wrestling on Friday nights sometimes.”

*Khan on if he’d move the timeslot for AEW Rampage:* “No, I think it’s our time. Obviously going forward everybody knows Dynamite is going to move to TBS after January but Rampage is staying on TNT and as far as I know that’s the slot. Plus Battle of the Belts is coming in January too. Even though Dynamite is moving to TBS, we will actually have another show coming to TNT so it’s exciting.”

*Tony Khan on wrestling doing well despite decline in cable and satellite TV subscribers:* “A lot of people don’t know this, the wrestling business has done very well in the last 2 years when you consider there was a 9% decline in the last year in cable and satellite subscribers and a 9% decline the year before that. You’re down 18% from when we started, bear in mind all the numbers you’ve been looking at since AEW started and for everybody, the numbers are 18% less people in the world. Judge against the curve, that’s an important thing people don’t talk about and it’s also cool that Dynamite in that time has held up so well and actually had growth while the universe has declined 18%.”


----------



## 3venflow

Punk on casual fans/hardcore fans:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1459949451850788865


----------



## A PG Attitude

3venflow said:


> Punk on casual fans/hardcore fans:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1459949451850788865


He's right, unless you're a fan of wrestling why would you be watching in 2021 when theres so much choice. Most people dont have enough time to watch all the stuff they do like let alone take a chance on watching a wrestling show.


----------



## omaroo

3venflow said:


> Here's TK on Rampage and its numbers. Doesn't sound like it'll be changing timeslots any time soon. His last point is something many have argued to the willfully ignorant on here time after time. It's hard to increase ratings when millions of people cut the cord. Unless AEW gets on network TV like Smackdown, it's likely to be a case of stability and consistency is good.
> 
> *Tony Khan on the numbers for AEW Rampage:* “The numbers that we do are still one of the top shows. I think sometimes people think that the number that you do for Dynamite should be the exact number you do for Rampage, but it’s really an apples to oranges comparison. It’s frequently the number one show in its time slot and it’s beating everything we’ve faced head to head. Very often it’s been one of the top shows, if not the number one show a number of times even out of that time slot on all of Friday night TV. Frequently it’s in the top 4 or 5 so what we do out of that slot is very impressive. They’re really happy with the show, the fans they see if it doesn’t do as big a number as Dynamite to them it’s not as good. The fact is for the time slot it’s in, it’s performed really well and they’re really happy with it so I’m thrilled with it because it’s a great franchise for us. If it were ever to change and be in a different slot I would be the best I could in that slot too and whatever the standard is, if it were a slot where the averages were higher than we’d have to do a higher average. But the spot we’re in we do really really well. So yeah, it’s funny but the weeks that the Fast Nationals don’t leak it’s always a pretty good number, I wonder why. I wonder who leaks them. That’s subjective on their part. We all know what’s happening, I don’t think it’s particularly to their benefit.”
> 
> *Khan on how the network is happy with Rampage’s performance:* “It’s done really well and ask the network in the slot how they feel about it. It’s really good but I get that Dynamite is in a more attractive time slot and that’s also why I put so many awesome matches that would make Rampage a destination for a hardcore wrestling viewer no matter where they go. Even if they have to turn it on in somebody else’s house, in a bar, on their phone, you don’t want to miss Bryan Danielson vs. Eddie Kingston. You don’t want to miss Andrade vs. PAC 2, these are really special matches. Even trying to put something cool last night it was like a throwback to an old cruiserweight match with Dante [Martin] and Ariya [Daivari] where it’s two babyfaces but they were both from here. I definitely think it’s cool having wrestling on Friday nights even if it’s not the best time to draw viewers. There’s something to it, a lot of us grew up on that and it’s a great block and if you’re a wrestling fan that wants to watch everything, there’s a lot of great wrestling on Friday nights sometimes.”
> 
> *Khan on if he’d move the timeslot for AEW Rampage:* “No, I think it’s our time. Obviously going forward everybody knows Dynamite is going to move to TBS after January but Rampage is staying on TNT and as far as I know that’s the slot. Plus Battle of the Belts is coming in January too. Even though Dynamite is moving to TBS, we will actually have another show coming to TNT so it’s exciting.”
> 
> *Tony Khan on wrestling doing well despite decline in cable and satellite TV subscribers:* “A lot of people don’t know this, the wrestling business has done very well in the last 2 years when you consider there was a 9% decline in the last year in cable and satellite subscribers and a 9% decline the year before that. You’re down 18% from when we started, bear in mind all the numbers you’ve been looking at since AEW started and for everybody, the numbers are 18% less people in the world. Judge against the curve, that’s an important thing people don’t talk about and it’s also cool that Dynamite in that time has held up so well and actually had growth while the universe has declined 18%.”


I had a feeling Rampage wont leave Fridays at all but thought at least time slot could be moved.

Its sad it wont and thus the growth of that show will in effect stagnate which is a shame.


----------



## Mister Sinister

Like Bischoff said-- cool matches don't mean shit to the mainstream. Story draws. Characters draw. Drama draws. Understanding narrative structure and hooks and tools like red herrings are what make good television. Long stories that turn into runners trots running down their leg for the purpose of longness and indie idealism do not make good television or good writing.


----------



## Erik.

Mister Sinister said:


> Like Bischoff said-- cool matches don't mean shit to the mainstream. Story draws. Characters draw. Drama draws. Understanding narrative structure and hooks and tools like red herrings are what make good television. Long stories that turn into runners trots running down their leg for the purpose of longness and indie idealism do not make good television or good writing.


You'd think Bischoff would know better.

The luchadores in WCW meant absolutely everything to the 'mainstream' and they provided the coolest matches of the mid 90s.

I'd hazard a guess that Bischoff, however, like most wrestling personalities, are living in the past when wrestling USED to draw. You could put out top level Breaking Bad style creativity and stories in wrestling and I'd be willing to bet my house that it wouldn't draw anything special, if anything at all.

It's still wrestling. It's scorched earth.

The sooner people realise that, the better. People seem to look at ratings as a way of rating whether a story is good or not, which is pathetic. That's like basing your opinion on something despite never actually watching said something. Which funnily enough, I see ALL over social media.

Oh and I love Bischoff by the way. Massive respect to what he done. I always preferred WCW over WWF growing up between the years 1993 to 1998 and he was a big part of that when he took over. But he also provided the worst climax to one of the best wrestling stories in history, which in turn pretty much turned me over to WWF (and many many others).


----------



## 3venflow

AEW have sold out the Wintrust Arena in Chicago for later this month (unless they can add more seats).

Per WrestleTix:

Available Tickets => 2 ("Official Platinum" price - $355 for the pair)
Estimated Setup/Capacity => 7,032
Tickets Distributed => 7,030 (100%)

*AEW Rampage ratings*

Total viewers: 515,000
18-49: 0.20

#13 on cable.


----------



## omaroo

3venflow said:


> AEW have sold out the Wintrust Arena in Chicago for later this month (unless they can add more seats).
> 
> Per WrestleTix:
> 
> Available Tickets => 2 ("Official Platinum" price - $355 for the pair)
> Estimated Setup/Capacity => 7,032
> Tickets Distributed => 7,030 (100%)
> 
> *AEW Rampage ratings*
> 
> Total viewers: 515,000
> 18-49: 0.20
> 
> #13 on cable.
> 
> View attachment 111790


Cue AEW are losing viewers and are on life support comments or something of that nature.


----------



## 3venflow

The Full Gear Countdown show at 11pm (after Rampage) did 292,000 viewers and 0.10 in the 18-49. That ranked #54 on cable.


----------



## Prosper

Lookin forward to seeing the buy rates for Full Gear and how they compare to All Out knowing that there were no debuts planned.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

TK’s press conference after Full Gear regarding Rampage was quite insightful 

(they shouldn’t) - but I get the feeling they’ll have to drop to something like 300k or less for TNT to even start the conversation of cutting it

the problem they will have, is that if Rampage goes cold, they’ll have some issues selling tickets for it - which is a bigger issue (when its standalone)


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> AEW have sold out the Wintrust Arena in Chicago for later this month (unless they can add more seats).
> 
> Per WrestleTix:
> 
> Available Tickets => 2 ("Official Platinum" price - $355 for the pair)
> Estimated Setup/Capacity => 7,032
> Tickets Distributed => 7,030 (100%)
> 
> *AEW Rampage ratings*
> 
> Total viewers: 515,000
> 18-49: 0.20
> 
> #13 on cable.
> 
> View attachment 111790


Ooohhh brother - those tix sold are tasty

bums in seats are the new ‘ratings’


----------



## 3venflow

Very competitive again. Smackdown and Rampage were actually neck and neck but Smackdown had a late surge.

Full Gear final sales were around 10,450 minus suites. I believe they claimed 11,000. A gate of near $678,000 before merch sales.


----------



## yeahright2

Rampage ratings are in. 
(shameless plug for the ratings game)
AEW Ratings prediction game

@DaveRA won, but everyone overshot by at least 30K. Why didn´t a go-home show do better? Serious question.. This was like their second-lowest rating so far if I remember correctly.


----------



## DaSlacker

LifeInCattleClass said:


> TK’s press conference after Full Gear regarding Rampage was quite insightful
> 
> (they shouldn’t) - but I get the feeling they’ll have to drop to something like 300k or less for TNT to even start the conversation of cutting it
> 
> the problem they will have, is that if Rampage goes cold, they’ll have some issues selling tickets for it - which is a bigger issue (when its standalone)


The Rampage day and timeslot is basically benefitting Warner more than it is AEW. It means Khan has to put in more work for subpar returns, while TNT has a decent demo for a dead night and time.

I get they are or planned on taking advantage of the SmackDown lead in. Still, they could have shown an edited rerun of Dynamite or show Dark: Elevation. Saturday at 8pm makes moee more sense if that's the night the quarterly specials are on.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> Rampage ratings are in.
> (shameless plug for the ratings game)
> AEW Ratings prediction game
> 
> @DaveRA won, but everyone overshot by at least 30K. Why didn´t a go-home show do better? Serious question.. This was like their second-lowest rating so far if I remember correctly.


you know why - it was a shit card that didn’t tie in with the ppv


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you know why - it was a shit card that didn’t tie in with the ppv


Right. I forgot.. Dynamite and Rampage are so close that they blend together. Nothing of note happened on either show for me last week. You could argue that "superkliq" and Page tied in to Full Gear, and the women´s Hos title tournament too.. But Fish/Jungle Boy, Dante/Daivari and Hardy/OC? That´s Dark matches..


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> Right. I forgot.. Dynamite and Rampage are so close that they blend together. Nothing of note happened on either show for me last week. You could argue that "superkliq" and Page tied in to Full Gear, and the women´s Hos title tournament too.. But Fish/Jungle Boy, Dante/Daivari and Hardy/OC? That´s Dark matches..


dynamite tied in nice enough / although the prior week was almost a better ‘go home’

but i have no idea what Tk was smoking to make that card for rampage - could’ve done a lot to push the ppv

all those matches are fine (except Hardy) on any other night

that being said, i still enjoyed rampage - but i can see why the numbers were down


----------



## 3venflow

Fish vs. JB tied into the PPV as Cole instructed Bobby to weaken JB after his run-in on Wednesday. I thought that was a nice little pre-PPV story. Agree with the other matches though, they had no connection to the PPV whatsoever. OC vs. Hardy was the conclusion match to their feud, so it was said, but it looks to be still going with CHAOS getting involved.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1460397579590684675

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

Started very well, then suffered a sharp drop in Q2. After that it was basically a straight line. I'm glad Fish vs. JB had a decent number anyway, it was a very good match.


----------



## BroncoBuster3

Mister Sinister said:


> Like Bischoff said-- cool matches don't mean shit to the mainstream. Story draws. Characters draw. Drama draws. Understanding narrative structure and hooks and tools like red herrings are what make good television. Long stories that turn into runners trots running down their leg for the purpose of longness and indie idealism do not make good television or good writing.


Not even the mainstream. Just the other millions of wrestling fans who enjoyed it back when it was character driven with interesting stories involving grown men who look like they'd win an actual fight and hot women. They weren't casual fans in the 90's and 2000's, they were wrestling fans. WWE has neglected them and AEW has aimed their show towards PWG fans who would be watching anyway


----------



## the_flock

3venflow said:


> Here's TK on Rampage and its numbers. Doesn't sound like it'll be changing timeslots any time soon. His last point is something many have argued to the willfully ignorant on here time after time. It's hard to increase ratings when millions of people cut the cord. Unless AEW gets on network TV like Smackdown, it's likely to be a case of stability and consistency is good.
> 
> *Tony Khan on the numbers for AEW Rampage:* “The numbers that we do are still one of the top shows. I think sometimes people think that the number that you do for Dynamite should be the exact number you do for Rampage, but it’s really an apples to oranges comparison. It’s frequently the number one show in its time slot and it’s beating everything we’ve faced head to head. Very often it’s been one of the top shows, if not the number one show a number of times even out of that time slot on all of Friday night TV. Frequently it’s in the top 4 or 5 so what we do out of that slot is very impressive. They’re really happy with the show, the fans they see if it doesn’t do as big a number as Dynamite to them it’s not as good. The fact is for the time slot it’s in, it’s performed really well and they’re really happy with it so I’m thrilled with it because it’s a great franchise for us. If it were ever to change and be in a different slot I would be the best I could in that slot too and whatever the standard is, if it were a slot where the averages were higher than we’d have to do a higher average. But the spot we’re in we do really really well. So yeah, it’s funny but the weeks that the Fast Nationals don’t leak it’s always a pretty good number, I wonder why. I wonder who leaks them. That’s subjective on their part. We all know what’s happening, I don’t think it’s particularly to their benefit.”
> 
> *Khan on how the network is happy with Rampage’s performance:* “It’s done really well and ask the network in the slot how they feel about it. It’s really good but I get that Dynamite is in a more attractive time slot and that’s also why I put so many awesome matches that would make Rampage a destination for a hardcore wrestling viewer no matter where they go. Even if they have to turn it on in somebody else’s house, in a bar, on their phone, you don’t want to miss Bryan Danielson vs. Eddie Kingston. You don’t want to miss Andrade vs. PAC 2, these are really special matches. Even trying to put something cool last night it was like a throwback to an old cruiserweight match with Dante [Martin] and Ariya [Daivari] where it’s two babyfaces but they were both from here. I definitely think it’s cool having wrestling on Friday nights even if it’s not the best time to draw viewers. There’s something to it, a lot of us grew up on that and it’s a great block and if you’re a wrestling fan that wants to watch everything, there’s a lot of great wrestling on Friday nights sometimes.”
> 
> *Khan on if he’d move the timeslot for AEW Rampage:* “No, I think it’s our time. Obviously going forward everybody knows Dynamite is going to move to TBS after January but Rampage is staying on TNT and as far as I know that’s the slot. Plus Battle of the Belts is coming in January too. Even though Dynamite is moving to TBS, we will actually have another show coming to TNT so it’s exciting.”
> 
> *Tony Khan on wrestling doing well despite decline in cable and satellite TV subscribers:* “A lot of people don’t know this, the wrestling business has done very well in the last 2 years when you consider there was a 9% decline in the last year in cable and satellite subscribers and a 9% decline the year before that. You’re down 18% from when we started, bear in mind all the numbers you’ve been looking at since AEW started and for everybody, the numbers are 18% less people in the world. Judge against the curve, that’s an important thing people don’t talk about and it’s also cool that Dynamite in that time has held up so well and actually had growth while the universe has declined 18%.”


People who say everything is going well and everyone is happy in every conversation is lying.


----------



## the_flock

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Ooohhh brother - those tix sold are tasty
> 
> bums in seats are the new ‘ratings’


Haha when your ratings are shit, look for those straws to clutch.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

the_flock said:


> Haha when your ratings are shit, look for those straws to clutch.


Flock you birdy


----------



## thorn123

worst case scenario - how low would viewership of rampage and dynamite have to go before they were cancelled?


----------



## jameehayter

DaveRA said:


> worst case scenario - how low would viewership of rampage and dynamite have to go before they were cancelled?


You're asking people here this?! Last people on earth who would know that.


----------



## jameehayter

3venflow said:


> Very competitive again. Smackdown and Rampage were actually neck and neck but Smackdown had a late surge.
> 
> Full Gear final sales were around 10,450 minus suites. I believe they claimed 11,000. A gate of near $678,000 before merch sales.
> 
> View attachment 111796


Aew does better in large markets where people are quick to adapt to new things. A barely promoted show in Long Island has double the tickets sold at the moment.
The above numbers are in the sticks, which is quite amazing that aew is so competitive.


----------



## jameehayter

3venflow said:


> Punk on casual fans/hardcore fans:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1459949451850788865


Casual fans are like undecided voters in that they don't really exist. If you watch regularly you're a fan. 
Interesting nobody here talks about +7 & just look at live number, but what do you expect here..?!


----------



## AuthorOfPosts

AEW started this game of judging them by the ratings, especially the guy that runs AEW, and they have continually brought it up to "prove" how well they're doing. It goes the other way as well.

You can't now say "if it goes well, it goes well but putting out a show we're proud of is the most important thing". The guy that runs the show has made viewership numbers, AEW's identity.


----------



## Art Vandaley

Really not surprised to see the ratings continue to tank, they've got the best roster in the world, but still give the dregs of their roster way to much tv time, which combined with poor booking of the talent they do have (i.e. Punk doing nothing completely squandering the excitement of his return) makes for a highly inconsistent product quality wise.

You can't have the real talent on youtube and people like pockets on tv and expect people to still tune in.

If you're tuning in live you've kinda invested yourself in watching the whole show as you could easily watch it an hour or later streaming and skip through bits otherwise, so the whole show needs to be at a certain minimum quality.


----------



## VGK

DaveRA said:


> worst case scenario - how low would viewership of rampage and dynamite have to go before they were cancelled?


Guessing they'd have to end up lower than what the ratings were before they debuted on TNT. I read somewhere that TNT averaged around 480K or so viewers before Dynamite began airing.


----------



## jameehayter

Alkomesh2 said:


> Really not surprised to see the ratings continue to tank, they've got the best roster in the world, but still give the dregs of their roster way to much tv time, which combined with poor booking of the talent they do have (i.e. Punk doing nothing completely squandering the excitement of his return) makes for a highly inconsistent product quality wise.
> 
> You can't have the real talent on youtube and people like pockets on tv and expect people to still tune in.
> 
> If you're tuning in live you've kinda invested yourself in watching the whole show as you could easily watch it an hour or later streaming and skip through bits otherwise, so the whole show needs to be at a certain minimum quality.


Current ratings are what they are solely because of changes to west coast time slot & will continue this way until move to tbs. Any backlog of issues critics may have with the show are just nonsensical.


----------



## jameehayter

VGK said:


> Guessing they'd have to end up lower than what the ratings were before they debuted on TNT. I read somewhere that TNT averaged around 480K or so viewers before Dynamite began airing.


Show is among the highest rated for the night. It's not going anywhere. Besides, overall viewership is meaningless.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Erik. said:


> You'd think Bischoff would know better.
> 
> The luchadores in WCW meant absolutely everything to the 'mainstream' and they provided the coolest matches of the mid 90s.



The luchadores were a special weekly attraction. El Dandy never sold as much merch as Kevin Nash despite Dandy taking part in cooler matches.



jameehayter said:


> Show is among the highest rated for the night. It's not going anywhere. Besides, overall viewership is meaningless.


Overall is all that AEW really has, lol. Are you one of those people that think the AEW demographic is actually what advertisers want?


----------



## the_flock

DaveRA said:


> worst case scenario - how low would viewership of rampage and dynamite have to go before they were cancelled?


A while away from that yet.

If we say the last deal was based on a million or so viewers. Then anything less than that on average will result in a worse deal.

Rampage for me is the most at threat. If Dynamite loses viewers and Rampage continues to lose viewers, I think the next deal will make it impossible to run Rampage unless TK bankrolls it.


----------



## the_flock

Chip Chipperson said:


> The luchadores were a special weekly attraction. El Dandy never sold as much merch as Kevin Nash despite Dandy taking part in cooler matches.
> 
> 
> 
> Overall is all that AEW really has, lol. Are you one of those people that think the AEW demographic is actually what advertisers want?


Imagine thinking the luchadores were everything to the mainstream and cool, despite the fact its well documented that anything involving these guys actually lost live viewers. I believe only Juventud did well in the ratings and Vampiro if he counts. 

AEW fans are so obsessed with demographics because its the only thing they can try and turn in to a win. If they were doing really well in overall ratings they would be talking about that as they did for that 1 week when they thought they were going to beat Smackdown on FS1.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

the_flock said:


> Imagine thinking the luchadores were everything to the mainstream and cool, despite the fact its well documented that anything involving these guys actually lost live viewers. I believe only Juventud did well in the ratings and Vampiro if he counts.


Didn't know they lost ratings but every documentary or book written about WCW including Eric himself all state that the luchadores were just used as a special attraction to kick shows off hot.

Eric knew the real money was in Hogan, Nash, Hall, Savage, Flair, Bret etc


----------



## .christopher.

jameehayter said:


> Current ratings are what they are solely because of changes to west coast time slot & will continue this way until move to tbs. Any backlog of issues critics may have with the show are just nonsensical.


AEW lost all the fans Punk and Bryan brought before any of that.


----------



## jameehayter

the_flock said:


> Imagine thinking the luchadores were everything to the mainstream and cool, despite the fact its well documented that anything involving these guys actually lost live viewers. I believe only Juventud did well in the ratings and Vampiro if he counts.
> 
> AEW fans are so obsessed with demographics because its the only thing they can try and turn in to a win. If they were doing really well in overall ratings they would be talking about that as they did for that 1 week when they thought they were going to beat Smackdown on FS1.


Smackdown finishes dead last on network tv every week for it's time slot. Want to reconsider your argument??


----------



## jameehayter

.christopher. said:


> AEW lost all the fans Punk and Bryan brought before any of that.


..& miraculously will gain them back when an area with the population of about 60 million can watch again at 8pm.


----------



## .christopher.

jameehayter said:


> ..& miraculously will gain them back when an area with the population of about 60 million can watch again at 8pm.


No, because they lost them BEFORE they changed the time they're on.


----------



## the_flock

Chip Chipperson said:


> Didn't know they lost ratings but every documentary or book written about WCW including Eric himself all state that the luchadores were just used as a special attraction to kick shows off hot.
> 
> Eric knew the real money was in Hogan, Nash, Hall, Savage, Flair, Bret etc


Yeah guys like La Parka lost on average around 350k per segment. 

Very few cruiserweight gained viewers. Even guys like Rey Mysterio and Kidman lost viewers. 

Whereas guys like Hogan were doing the opposite, but that doesn't suit the narrative of modern smarks as Hogan is bad and can't wrestle and Villano IV should have been world champion. 

The cruiserweights were designed to get the live audience pumped, but it didn't work for TV numbers as people zoned out. They wanted action and drama, not 20 minute spot fests. You know TK has learned not what to do from watching WCW though.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

jameehayter said:


> ..& miraculously will gain them back when an area with the population of about 60 million can watch again at 8pm.


AEW going back to 1.3 million soon boys.


----------



## jameehayter

the_flock said:


> Yeah guys like La Parka lost on average around 350k per segment.
> 
> Very few cruiserweight gained viewers. Even guys like Rey Mysterio and Kidman lost viewers.
> 
> Whereas guys like Hogan were doing the opposite, but that doesn't suit the narrative of modern smarks as Hogan is bad and can't wrestle and Villano IV should have been world champion.
> 
> The cruiserweights were designed to get the live audience pumped, but it didn't work for TV numbers as people zoned out. They wanted action and drama, not 20 minute spot fests. You know TK has learned not what to do from watching WCW though.


Great & today wrestling segments get the highest ratings. Think you need to update your analytics


----------



## .christopher.

Chip Chipperson said:


> AEW going back to 1.3 million soon boys.


I believe a Bryan segment peaked at 1.4. Around 400 thousand tuned in for an actual name, saw a clusterfuck, and left. Nothing to do with timezones, brother.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

.christopher. said:


> I believe a Bryan segment peaked at 1.4. Around 400 thousand tuned in for an actual name, saw a clusterfuck, and left. Nothing to do with timezones, brother.


JameeHayter says otherwise, sorry mate.


----------



## .christopher.

Chip Chipperson said:


> JameeHayter says otherwise, sorry mate.


Shit, my bad!


----------



## jameehayter

Chip Chipperson said:


> Didn't know they lost ratings but every documentary or book written about WCW including Eric himself all state that the luchadores were just used as a special attraction to kick shows off hot.
> 
> Eric knew the real money was in Hogan, Nash, Hall, Savage, Flair, Bret etc


Feed at the trough of Eric bischoff & maybe also Scott Keith books of course!!



Chip Chipperson said:


> AEW going back to 1.3 million soon boys.


I know your posts are a combination of being glib & failing to understand ratings concepts, but dynamite truly can't return to those figures with the current time slot on the west coast as it is.


----------



## the_flock

jameehayter said:


> Feed at the trough of Eric bischoff & maybe also Scott Keith books of course!!
> 
> 
> 
> I know your posts are a combination of being glib & failing to understand ratings concepts, but dynamite truly can't return to those figures with the current time slot on the west coast as it is.


It can't return to those figures until they debut another ex wwe star for a cheap ratings boost.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Didn't know they lost ratings but every documentary or book written about WCW including Eric himself all state that the luchadores were just used as a special attraction to kick shows off hot.
> 
> Eric knew the real money was in Hogan, Nash, Hall, Savage, Flair, Bret etc


i’m reading ‘the death of wcw‘ at the moment

i’m at the part where ratings fell from 5.0 to 2.7 because they insisted on putting hogan / nash / hall in the main events even while they were well past it, and they killed the momentum or Mysterio with the loss of his mask etc


----------



## Not Lying

It’s insane how the ones who talk the most know shit about ratings 😂
Obviously they’re doing great year on a year, they are bottoming now to what they PEAKED a year ago, you idiots. But if ya’ll want to be morons and compare peaks and lows be guest 😂

Obviously, AEW is in much better position, Bryan and Punk haven’t even done 1/10th of what they could story wises too, and they keep getting screwed with time shifts and Now this BS West Coast feed.
But guess what? it doesn’t matter, they’re getting paid the same now and will get a MUCH larger deal next time. Then tears will be flowing 😭😭


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

the_flock said:


> People who say everything is going well and everyone is happy in every conversation is lying.


*Just more bullshit to spin terrible numbers as usual. If the product is good, people will watch, period. Rampage is shit, has been shit, gets worse every week, and the numbers reflect that.*


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i’m reading ‘the death of wcw‘ at the moment
> 
> i’m at the part where ratings fell from 5.0 to 2.7 because they insisted on putting hogan / nash / hall in the main events even while they were well past it, and they killed the momentum or Mysterio with the loss of his mask etc


Yeah, that book is wildly inaccurate.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

DaveRA said:


> worst case scenario - how low would viewership of rampage and dynamite have to go before they were cancelled?


*I'd say a consistent string of 400 k should be enough. *


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah, that book is wildly inaccurate.


well, the ratings are catalogued as well as the main events - it would have to be so wildly inaccurate that he‘s actually talking about pizza when discussing the space program

i take the backstage with a pinch of salt - but when Hogan and friends main event each week and the ratings fall, what is there not to understand?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> well, the ratings are catalogued as well as the main events - it would have to be so wildly inaccurate that he‘s actually talking about pizza when discussing the space program
> 
> i take the backstage with a pinch of salt - but when Hogan and friends main event each week and the ratings fall, what is there not to understand?


*This ignores context. The New World Order became the Dark Order with some stars sprinkled in. They overstayed their welcome and took up way too much TV time by recruiting literally half the roster just to stand in the ring and do nothing. At that point, no one cared because WWE was doing far more interesting and diverse things on their show with various stars and factions.*


----------



## thorn123

AuthorOfPosts said:


> AEW started this game of judging them by the ratings, especially the guy that runs AEW, and they have continually brought it up to "prove" how well they're doing. It goes the other way as well.
> 
> You can't now say "if it goes well, it goes well but putting out a show we're proud of is the most important thing". The guy that runs the show has made viewership numbers, AEW's identity.


Fair play
TK and Y2J should now, and should have then, just kept their mouths shut. They are producing pretty good shows (IMO) and are somewhat successful. So just stay in your lane and enjoy the ride.


----------



## Erik.

DaveRA said:


> worst case scenario - how low would viewership of rampage and dynamite have to go before they were cancelled?


Its a good question because it shows ratings in its ultimate don't matter at all. 

Aslong as Dynamite remains one of the watched TV shows for TNT - theyll be kept around. 

And I don't see that changing one bit.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Legit DMD said:


> *This ignores context. The New World Order became the Dark Order with some stars sprinkled in. They overstayed their welcome and took up way too much TV time by recruiting literally half the roster just to stand in the ring and do nothing. At that point, no one cared because WWE was doing far more interesting and diverse things on their show with various stars and factions.*


This is a good point also.

3 years after Hogan, Hall and Nash tanked the ratings in WCW (If you believe the book that is) they returned to the WWF, did strong ratings and worked two of the WWF's top stars at Mania with Hogan/Rock stealing the show.

It wasn't because of Hulk or Outsiders or any big stars WCW had it was because WWE was simply better. They had a 30 something year old Stone Cold killing it every week, they had the first ever proper evil authority vs heroic babyface angle, Taker was very popular, The Rock was very exciting etc.

WCW was kind of old hat.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Chip Chipperson said:


> This is a good point also.
> 
> 3 years after Hogan, Hall and Nash tanked the ratings in WCW (If you believe the book that is) they returned to the WWF, did strong ratings and worked two of the WWF's top stars at Mania with Hogan/Rock stealing the show.
> 
> It wasn't because of Hulk or Outsiders or any big stars WCW had it was because WWE was simply better. They had a 30 something year old Stone Cold killing it every week, they had the first ever proper evil authority vs heroic babyface angle, Taker was very popular, The Rock was very exciting etc.
> 
> WCW was kind of old hat.


*And while they were forcing that stale faction and featuring lots of jobbers, these were the factions that shifted ratings in WWE's favor:
DX
The Corporation
The Ministry of Darkness (later combining into the Corporate Ministry)

All of which featured the top guys on the show with a solid supporting cast.* *Throw in Steve Austin the anti-hero and WCW didn't stand a chance.*


----------



## the_flock

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i’m reading ‘the death of wcw‘ at the moment
> 
> i’m at the part where ratings fell from 5.0 to 2.7 because they insisted on putting hogan / nash / hall in the main events even while they were well past it, and they killed the momentum or Mysterio with the loss of his mask etc


The Death of WCW is a terribly inaccurate book. 

Nash, Hall and Hogan were still big draws way in to 2000. Its not their fault that WWE at that point was untouchable. 

Please don't tell me you're one of those people that think the likes of Rey Mysterio and Kidman should have been main Eventers in WCW and that's why it died.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Death of WCW still spreading bullshit in 2021?


----------



## the_flock

The Legit DMD said:


> *And while they were forcing that stale faction and featuring lots of jobbers, these were the factions that shifted ratings in WWE's favor:
> DX
> The Corporation
> The Ministry of Darkness (later combining into the Corporate Ministry)
> 
> All of which featured the top guys on the show with a solid supporting cast.* *Throw in Steve Austin the anti-hero and WCW didn't stand a chance.*


WCW's issue was they were riding high on the success of the NWO and thought it would never end. They never planned beyond that. 

In 1997 Luger suddenly out of nowhere had a big boost in popularity and became a legit big draw for the company, only for it to be a flash in the pan. Sting was killing it without actually wrestling and DDPs feud with Savage took him to the top. 

In 1998 we saw the rise of Goldberg who elevated WCW to the next level where they could have legit sold out stadiums and Nash became the coolest guy in the industry who was over as hell. In 3 years they essentially had 3 new main event calibre stars. 

After that they had nothing. They didn't elevate anyone new or create any new stars. 

I've explained before in another post. In 97 they pushed Shamrock, in 98 WWE elevated Austin, Kane, Mankind and The Rock, in 99 they elevated Triple H and The Big Show. 

7 new main event stars compared to WCW's 3.

Russo then arrived and fast tracked JJ, Booker T and Scott Steiner. But none of these guys were over enough to carry the company.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

the_flock said:


> The Death of WCW is a terribly inaccurate book.
> 
> Nash, Hall and Hogan were still big draws way in to 2000. Its not their fault that WWE at that point was untouchable.
> 
> Please don't tell me you're one of those people that think the likes of Rey Mysterio and Kidman should have been main Eventers in WCW and that's why it died.


i didn't watch WCW - i'm just reading the book


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *This ignores context. The New World Order became the Dark Order with some stars sprinkled in. They overstayed their welcome and took up way too much TV time by recruiting literally half the roster just to stand in the ring and do nothing. At that point, no one cared because WWE was doing far more interesting and diverse things on their show with various stars and factions.*


ok - and who was at the top of these massive NWO groups main eventing?

buff bagwell?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i didn't watch WCW - i'm just reading the book





LifeInCattleClass said:


> ok - and who was at the top of these massive NWO groups main eventing?
> 
> buff bagwell?


*You just told on yourself. You don't get it because you didn't watch it.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *You just told on yourself. You don't get it because you didn't watch it.*


is why i'm asking

this isn't a 'gotcha' moment you silly goose - i really want to know    

because the book says the NWO was big - but Hogan, Nash etc was maineventing and they turned Flair heel and that all tanked ratings

i'm asking if that was true - or did the jobbers main event too

lolz


----------



## the_flock

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ok - and who was at the top of these massive NWO groups main eventing?
> 
> buff bagwell?


Hogan was still a big draw. He can only work with what he could. As explained he did big numbers a few years later.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

the_flock said:


> Hogan was still a big draw. He can only work with what he could. As explained he did big numbers a few years later.


what do you mean 'work with what he could'?

he had goldberg, nash, flair, sting - those are not nothing

or am i misunderstanding what you mean?


----------



## the_flock

LifeInCattleClass said:


> is why i'm asking
> 
> this isn't a 'gotcha' moment you silly goose - i really want to know
> 
> because the book says the NWO was big - but Hogan, Nash etc was maineventing and they turned Flair heel and that all tanked ratings
> 
> i'm asking if that was true - or did the jobbers main event too
> 
> lolz


In 99, the top 10 biggest WCW TV draws in order were - 

Goldberg, Nash, Hogan, Sting, Flair, Hall, Jarrett, David Flair, Bret Hart, Randy Savage

The 10 worst draws were - 

Ernest Miller, The Wall, Berlyn, Buff Bagwell, Scott Steiner, David Taylor, Konnan, Disco Inferno, Perry Saturn, La Parka. Followed by the vanilla midgets.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

the_flock said:


> In 99, the top 10 biggest WCW TV draws in order were -
> 
> Goldberg, Nash, Hogan, Sting, Flair, Hall, Jarrett, David Flair, Bret Hart, Randy Savage
> 
> The 10 worst draws were -
> 
> Ernest Miller, The Wall, Berlyn, Buff Bagwell, Scott Steiner, David Taylor, Konnan, Disco Inferno, Perry Saturn, La Parka. Followed by the vanilla midgets.


ok - so why were the main events drawing 2.7 against wwe's 6 and more? (down from 4.7 year on year)

there must be a reason if I'm not supposed to 'believe the book i'm reading'


----------



## the_flock

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ok - so why were the main events drawing 2.7 against wwe's 6 and more? (down from 4.7 year on year)
> 
> there must be a reason if I'm not supposed to 'believe the book i'm reading'


It was around Feb 2000 onwards when they were averaging in the 2's weren't they. No Nash, No Goldberg, No Sting, No Bret, No Savage, No DDP. Hogan only worked 1 Nitro a month, usually after the PPV, Ric Flair working a limited schedule. Scott Hall was sacked. Sid was champion. Benoit, Eddie, Malenko and Saturn debuted in WWE.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

the_flock said:


> It was around Feb 2000 onwards when they were averaging in the 2's weren't they. No Nash, No Goldberg, No Sting, No Bret, No Savage, No DDP. Hogan only worked 1 Nitro a month, usually after the PPV, Ric Flair working a limited schedule. Scott Hall was sacked. Sid was champion. Benoit, Eddie, Malenko and Saturn debuted in WWE.


nope - averaging 2.7 around the time when flair turned

hogan v flair program

bret, goldberg, nash was there - nash the booker

(after goldberg was pinned, but before benoit etc was ever champ - they are still in the ‘being buried for being vanilla midgets’ phase)


----------



## the_flock

LifeInCattleClass said:


> nope - 2.7 around the time when flair turned
> 
> hogan v flair program
> 
> bret, goldberg, nash was there - nash the booker


What month and year was this mate, so I can have a look.

Edit* Feb/Mar 99 - Rating high 5.67, rating low 3.9. The main feud was the Horsemen Vs NWO. Benoit was headlining most nights. 

When was the 2.7?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

the_flock said:


> What month and year was this mate, so I can have a look.


i dunno month - year was 1999

same year Owen unfortunately died

(that is also where i am in the book now / sad time)


----------



## the_flock

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i dunno month - year was 1999
> 
> same year Owen unfortunately died
> 
> (that is also where i am in the book now / sad time)


Nash was Booker later 98 to early 99. Wcw were still riding high then. There was no 2.7 rating until 2000.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> is why i'm asking
> 
> this isn't a 'gotcha' moment you silly goose - i really want to know
> 
> because the book says the NWO was big - but Hogan, Nash etc was maineventing and they turned Flair heel and that all tanked ratings
> 
> i'm asking if that was true - or did the jobbers main event too
> 
> lolz


*It's been pointed out many times today alone that the book is flawed. WCW lost steam by forcing stale angles and making incredibly stupid booking decisions, long before Russo even got there. It had nothing to do with who was main eventing.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

the_flock said:


> Nash was Booker later 98 to early 99. Wcw were still riding high then. There was no 2.7 rating until 2000.


i said ‘main event rating’

regardless, there were sub 3 ratings in 1999 - right column is wcw


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *It's been pointed out many times today alone that the book is flawed. WCW lost steam by forcing stale angles and making incredibly stupid booking decisions, long before Russo even got there. It had nothing to do with who was main eventing.*


but the big boys were still in the main event, no?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Here is the card for WCW’s first 2.9

peep that main event


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

4 oct - 2.9


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

13 dec - 2.8


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

27th - 2.9


----------



## the_flock

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i said ‘main event rating’
> 
> regardless, there were sub 3 ratings in 1999 - right column is wcw
> 
> View attachment 111831


Since when did we start dissecting numbers based on matches. We go by overall average rating for the night. 

You also mentioned a 2.7 rating. Where and when was this or did you say that to make it sound worse? 

You also said Nash was booking. Again this is a blatant lie. 

That 23/08 show was infamous, as it was the night WCW wasted money on Kiss revealing the Kiss Demon head to head with a world title match on Raw. This show was also going head to head with the aftermath of Summerslam.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

the_flock said:


> Since when did we start dissecting numbers based on matches. We go by overall average rating for the night.
> 
> You also mentioned a 2.7 rating. Where and when was this or did you say that to make it sound worse?
> 
> You also said Nash was booking. Again this is a blatant lie.
> 
> That 23/08 show was infamous, as it was the night WCW wasted money on Kiss revealing the Kiss Demon head to head with a world title match on Raw. This show was also going head to head with the aftermath of Summerslam.


Why would I make it sound worse - i have literally no dog in the race

the 2.7 main event was the hogan / sting draw if I remember the book correct

why do you say Nash wasn’t booking? Wasn’t he given the book in 1999?

His wiki says he became head booker Feb 1999


----------



## the_flock

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Why would I make it sound worse - i have literally no dog in the race
> 
> why do you say Nash wasn’t booking? Wasn’t he given the book in 1999?
> 
> His wiki says he became head booker Feb 1999


Nash was the booker from end Nov 98 until end March 99. DDP was offered the book, but after a few meetings he turned it down as it was too stressful.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

the_flock said:


> Nash was the booker from end Nov 98 until end March 99. DDP was offered the book, but after a few meetings he turned it down as it was too stressful.


So, the book i am reading is wrong and his wiki is wrong but you’re right?

do you have a source?


----------



## the_flock

LifeInCattleClass said:


> So, the book i am reading is wrong and his wiki is wrong but you’re right?
> 
> do you have a source?


Goldberg said Nash was Booker at Starrcade 98. A lot of shoot interviews back the point up that Nash was booking around that time. Various reports say he got the book after Halloween Havoc.

If you ask Nash, he would say he never booked.

... The book you are reading is wrong on practically everything. It was written by Dave Meltzers mate and the guy who runs wrestle crap. So everything's has to be taken with a pinch of salt as its based on Uncle Daves thoughts and he despised everything WCW apart from his mates who were leaking him info in exchange for star ratings. Things never change.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

the_flock said:


> Goldberg said Nash was Booker at Starrcade 98. A lot of shoot interviews back the point up that Nash was booking around that time. Various reports say he got the book after Halloween Havoc.
> 
> If you ask Nash, he would say he never booked.


mate, just an article or something will suffice

i have a book and a wiki saying otherwise 🤷‍♂️


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *Just more bullshit to spin terrible numbers as usual. If the product is good, people will watch, period. Rampage is shit, has been shit, gets worse every week, and the numbers reflect that.*


Except for the fact that Rampage hasn't been "shit" at all though. It's like you're still naive to understand the fact that they're broadcasting on Friday night in the death slot, but of course you'll continue spitting out more nonsense. Reflect on getting better takes for once, dude


----------



## the_flock

LifeInCattleClass said:


> mate, just an article or something will suffice
> 
> i have a book and a wiki saying otherwise 🤷‍♂️


Most reputable industry guys will tell you not to read that book. 

Kevin Nash also says he was never the head booker...


----------



## Not Lying

LifeInCattleClass said:


> So, the book i am reading is wrong and his wiki is wrong but you’re right?
> 
> do you have a source?


Source: Trust me bro


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

the_flock said:


> Most reputable industry guys will tell you not to read that book.
> 
> Kevin Nash also says he was never the head booker...


And the wiki?


----------



## the_flock

LifeInCattleClass said:


> And the wiki?


What have teachers told students in education for the last 20 years, don't base your knowledge on Wikipedia.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Again, don't ever let anyone in here tell you that total viewership doesn't matter as much as DA DEMO!11!!:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1461004855204454402*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

the_flock said:


> What have teachers told students in education for the last 20 years, don't base your knowledge on Wikipedia.


i mean, its impossible for all of it to be a lie


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Again, don't ever let anyone in here tell you that total viewership doesn't matter as much as DA DEMO!11!!:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1461004855204454402*


its almost like..... they want to take attention away from a different number









The Super Bowl is losing viewers under 50, reflecting how American media has fragmented


The Super Bowl isn't the event it once was.




www.cnbc.com
 




edit> for joy! Nielson says it will capture streaming data from 2024 - I'm marking it in my calendar to come LOLZ at all the hatersssss

here is more for those interested









Nielsen plans to combine traditional and digital TV ratings


Nielsen is updating its TV ratings to reflect a world which audiences are watching TV both live and on-demand, across a variety of different streaming services and devices. While the firm has long provided the standard measure for TV audiences, things are more fragmented when it comes to digital...




techcrunch.com


----------



## the_flock

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i mean, its impossible for all of it to be a lie


Don't get me wrong, it's good for basic knowledge. The issue is anyone can edit it at any point.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

the_flock said:


> Don't get me wrong, it's good for basic knowledge. The issue is anyone can edit it at any point.


go and edit his wiki and say 'he was never the booker' - just for lolz


----------



## Garty

the_flock said:


> Don't get me wrong, it's good for basic knowledge. The issue is anyone can edit it at any point.


Most pages are locked, meaning no changes can be made, other than by the author.

If something is edited and is found to be completely false, slanderous, or not backed up by a reputable source of "new information" your edit can be removed and be locked out of editing it further.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> its almost like..... they want to take attention away from a different number
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Super Bowl is losing viewers under 50, reflecting how American media has fragmented
> 
> 
> The Super Bowl isn't the event it once was.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit> for joy! Nielson says it will capture streaming data from 2024 - I'm marking it in my calendar to come LOLZ at all the hatersssss


*I posted that exact article last time I brought this up. They definitely aren't struggling for sponsors if you haven't noticed, so please keep the nonsense about the demo being the end all be all of contract extensions and commercial placement. *


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *I posted that exact article last time I brought this up. They definitely aren't struggling for sponsors if you haven't noticed, so please keep the nonsense about the demo being the end all be all of contract extensions and commercial placement. *


i think i'll just believe this if you don't mind


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

just for shits and giggles

i mean, its been proven time and time over now


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *I posted that exact article last time I brought this up. They definitely aren't struggling for sponsors if you haven't noticed, so please keep the nonsense about the demo being the end all be all of contract extensions and commercial placement. *


What's your excuse now after being proven wrong yet again about the demographic numbers "not" mattering?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

18 - 34 is the new key demo lads!


----------



## the_flock

LifeInCattleClass said:


> go and edit his wiki and say 'he was never the booker' - just for lolz


Haha he would probably be thankful of that. Remove all questions of his inability to book.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> just for shits and giggles
> 
> i mean, its been proven time and time over now
> 
> 
> View attachment 111842


*Yet none of that has stopped the NFL from having THE MOST desired ad slots in Sports. What do casuals look forward to the most? Superbowl commercials. Not NBA Finals commercials, not World Series commercials, and damn sure not Stanley Cup commercials. Advertisers are continuing to fall over themselves to secure Superbowl ad space IN SPITE of the decline in 18-49 viewership. You're making my argument for me and don't even realize it.*


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

The Legit DMD said:


> *Yet none of that has stopped the NFL from having THE MOST desired ad slots in Sports. What do casuals look forward to the most? Superbowl commercials. Not NBA Finals commercials, not World Series commercials, and damn sure not Stanley Cup commercials. Advertisers are continuing to fall over themselves to secure Superbowl ad space IN SPITE of the decline in 18-49 viewership. You're making my argument for me and don't even realize it.*


The Super Bowl despite the decline still has the highest key demo of those sports though...


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Here are the results of the Full


The Legit DMD said:


> *Yet none of that has stopped the NFL from having THE MOST desired ad slots in Sports. What do casuals look forward to the most? Superbowl commercials. Not NBA Finals commercials, not World Series commercials, and damn sure not Stanley Cup commercials. Advertisers are continuing to fall over themselves to secure Superbowl ad space IN SPITE of the decline in 18-49 viewership. You're making my argument for me and don't even realize it.*


i know this'll be a shock - but the NFL isn't the only thing on tv

and even if they declined in 18-49, they are still larger than most everything else in this key demo, hence the big money they earn 

everything out there points to 18-49 being the most important / the whole ad world revolves around it - but somehow for you this is not true

hell, its not even wrestling related, just purely ad related

you're such an odd little duckling - if you didn't have the eyes of adonis and a mega watch with super bling i would be really disappointed in all this


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Here are the results of the Full
> 
> 
> i know this'll be a shock - but the NFL isn't the only thing on tv
> 
> and even if they declined in 18-49, they are still larger than most everything else in this key demo, hence the big money they earn
> 
> everything out there points to 18-49 being the most important / the whole ad world revolves around it - but somehow for you this is not true
> 
> hell, its not even wrestling related, just purely ad related
> 
> you're such an odd little duckling - if you didn't have the eyes of adonis and a mega watch with super bling i would be really disappointed in all this


*What have we learned today cow man? The higher your total viewership, the bigger hit you can take in 18-49 and be unaffected, which makes total viewership more important than DA DEMO!!11!! If you don't want to advertise your product to 100 million people because of a demo decrease, you don't belong in business, and so far no one has been stupid enough to say that out loud in regards to purchasing Superbowl commercial slots.

You can't sit here, Tony Khan, and say a show achieving record lows bi weekly is in a good state because your only dedicated fanbase of 18-49 men faithfully watches it. We all agreed that 720 k was decent for the time slot, but ever since the show went to absolute shit, we've got the usual suspects making excuses about why 500k is fine. It's not, and no amount of DA DEMO!11! will ever change that.*


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *What have we learned today cow man? The higher your total viewership, the bigger hit you can take in 18-49 and be unaffected, which makes total viewership more important than DA DEMO!!11!! If you don't want to advertise your product to 100 million people because of a demo decrease, you don't belong in business, and so far no one has been stupid enough to say that out loud in regards to purchasing Superbowl commercial slots.
> 
> You can't sit here, Tony Khan, and say a show achieving record lows bi weekly is in a good state because your only dedicated fanbase of 18-49 men faithfully watches it. We all agreed that 720 k was decent for the time slot, but ever since the show went to absolute shit, we've got the usual suspects making excuses about why 500k is fine. It's not, and no amount of DA DEMO!11! will ever change that.*


I don't think I've seen anyone get THIS worked up over the demographic numbers mattering. Dude, they MATTER too.


----------



## omaroo

DammitChrist said:


> I don't think I've seen anyone get THIS worked up over the demographic numbers mattering. Dude, they MATTER too.


Some people love to dispute demos as the most important metric that ratings are measured against.

Total viewership isn't everything.


----------



## bdon

.christopher. said:


> No, because they lost them BEFORE they changed the time they're on.


On Saturdays.

Stop playing dumb.

Stability is key, and TNT has not offered it to AEW at all.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Full Gear is projected to have a significant drop from All Out, but that was to be expected. All Out had way more hype and a much better build. 

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1461062726772473856*


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

145k is still the second biggest AEW PPV ever. That's a good number.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *What have we learned today cow man? The higher your total viewership, the bigger hit you can take in 18-49 and be unaffected, which makes total viewership more important than DA DEMO!!11!! If you don't want to advertise your product to 100 million people because of a demo decrease, you don't belong in business, and so far no one has been stupid enough to say that out loud in regards to purchasing Superbowl commercial slots.
> 
> You can't sit here, Tony Khan, and say a show achieving record lows bi weekly is in a good state because your only dedicated fanbase of 18-49 men faithfully watches it. We all agreed that 720 k was decent for the time slot, but ever since the show went to absolute shit, we've got the usual suspects making excuses about why 500k is fine. It's not, and no amount of DA DEMO!11! will ever change that.*


Did Scott Steiner type this?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Full Gear is projected to have a significant drop from All Out, but that was to be expected. All Out had way more hype and a much better build.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1461062726772473856*


personally i thought Full gear had the better build

but All out obvs had the bigger debut match in Punk v Darby


----------



## 3venflow

145k is waaaay up on previous Full Gears and a great number.

It has been AEW's lowest bought PPV until now.

All Out will stay #1 for a long time, maybe forever, due to Punk's in-ring return and all the buzz of Danielson and possibly Cole.


----------



## DaSlacker

the_flock said:


> WCW's issue was they were riding high on the success of the NWO and thought it would never end. They never planned beyond that.
> 
> In 1997 Luger suddenly out of nowhere had a big boost in popularity and became a legit big draw for the company, only for it to be a flash in the pan. Sting was killing it without actually wrestling and DDPs feud with Savage took him to the top.
> 
> In 1998 we saw the rise of Goldberg who elevated WCW to the next level where they could have legit sold out stadiums and Nash became the coolest guy in the industry who was over as hell. In 3 years they essentially had 3 new main event calibre stars.
> 
> After that they had nothing. They didn't elevate anyone new or create any new stars.
> 
> I've explained before in another post. In 97 they pushed Shamrock, in 98 WWE elevated Austin, Kane, Mankind and The Rock, in 99 they elevated Triple H and The Big Show.
> 
> 7 new main event stars compared to WCW's 3.
> 
> Russo then arrived and fast tracked JJ, Booker T and Scott Steiner. But none of these guys were over enough to carry the company.


WCW went downhill as 1998 progressed and they relied more and more on giving away PPV level matches without the build to them. For example, Hogan vs Hart in a heel vs heel match on a random Nitro in September. They were producing 7 hours of prime time TV television with only a touch of creativity or excitement. Outside of Goldberg's streak, Flair's return and the disasterous One Warrior Nation, there was very little occuring. nWo vs nWo had disintigrated into Nash vs Hall, who was a mess. Meanwhile, WWF was full of ideas and stories spread across 3 hours. 

They coasted on that until Spring of 1999. That's where the big nWo vs WCW II feud breaks down and you can tell they are putting the shows together at last minute. The booking of the main event scene doesn't make a lot of sense, PPV quality is garbage, they do a big storyline without any thought of where it's heading and a Sting heel turn nobody asked for takes place. 

Jericho and Raven quit, Eddie is injured, Douglas injured, Steiner is injured, Booker is back in the tag division, Benoit is over and intense but lacks charisma. The other problem is the huge difference in styles and charisma of the the established guys and the midcard talent. With the older guys refusing to play ball, this was even more apparent. 

Russo's first run suffers from the number of unavailable world class younger talent due to injury and backlash from loyal fans about the change in format. The PPV numbers collapse. 

Then Sullivan's run retcons the prior six months. Then Russo's next run buries the world title via 10 changes in 3 months. By that point nobody is getting over in a big way.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> personally i thought Full gear had the better build
> 
> but All out obvs had the bigger debut match in Punk v Darby


*I feel like they only really tried with Hangman vs Kenny and MJF vs Darby. Everything else was thrown together at the last minute. Kingston vs Punk overdelivered with a two week build.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *I feel like they only really tried with Hangman vs Kenny and MJF vs Darby. Everything else was thrown together at the last minute. Kingston vs Punk overdelivered with a two week build.*


Inner Circle v ATT was like a month and a half build

and Danielson / Miro was a month tournament

only thrown-together things for me were tag champs / womens match and Cody's tag

rest had good build IMO - and obvs Punk / Kingston was 'thrown together' - but geez, they knocked it out the park in that time


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Inner Circle v ATT was like a month and a half build
> 
> and Danielson / Miro was a month tournament
> 
> only thrown-together things for me were tag champs / womens match and Cody's tag
> 
> rest had good build IMO - and obvs Punk / Kingston was 'thrown together' - but geez, they knocked it out the park in that time


*The Lambert Jericho feud was garbage though, and easily worst match of the night. It's been consistently the low point of the show, along with the Hardy Family Jobbers, who need to fuck off immediately. *


----------



## Prosper

145k buy rate roughly for Full Gear sounds awesome, obviously down from All Out but all good.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *The Lambert Jericho feud was garbage though, and easily worst match of the night. It's been consistently the low point of the show, along with the Hardy Family Jobbers, who need to fuck off immediately. *


i don't disagree - i didn't enjoy it either

HFO too

but we were talking 'build' - and they had it


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Prosper said:


> 145k buy rate roughly for Full Gear sounds awesome, obviously down from All Out but all good.


if that is USA only, which i think it is - that's 8m+ in revenue

and 50k more than their prior full gear + 2nd highest ppv ever


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## jameehayter

Prosper said:


> 145k buy rate roughly for Full Gear sounds awesome, obviously down from All Out but all good.


That number is a guess. No numbers have been released & most likely they never will be.


----------



## jameehayter

The Legit DMD said:


> *Again, don't ever let anyone in here tell you that total viewership doesn't matter as much as DA DEMO!11!!:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1461004855204454402*


That proves nothing. You've just posted a random tweet which you've used to draw a false conclusion. If overall viewership matters then smackdown finishes last on network TV every week..


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ok - so why were the main events drawing 2.7 against wwe's 6 and more? (down from 4.7 year on year)
> 
> there must be a reason if I'm not supposed to 'believe the book i'm reading'


Just to comment on the book as pointed out it was written by one of Meltzer's friends and the WrestleCrap guy. Lots of it is based on rumours and guys like Nash, Hall, X-Pac who all lived it laugh at it and consider it shitty. I personally enjoyed the book when I read it about 15 years ago but it isn't an accurate representation of what went on.

For example, later on in the book you'll reach the 2001 section and they'll comment on some kind of segment in which Rick Steiner did something stupid, this segment never even actually happened or was edited out because I've never actually seen it.

Very inaccurate book.



the_flock said:


> Goldberg said Nash was Booker at Starrcade 98. A lot of shoot interviews back the point up that Nash was booking around that time. Various reports say he got the book after Halloween Havoc.
> 
> If you ask Nash, he would say he never booked.


Depends on who you ask, I believe Eric and Nash state that in 1998 it was a committee which Nash was part of, Nash was in charge of said committee in February 1999.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> just for shits and giggles
> 
> i mean, its been proven time and time over now
> 
> 
> View attachment 111842


As I keep pointing out no chance do advertisers want AEW's fanbase. How are you going to sell hygiene products to guys who lift their arms at a wrestling show and send women scattering?


----------



## 3venflow

jameehayter said:


> That proves nothing. You've just posted a random tweet which you've used to draw a false conclusion. If overall viewership matters then smackdown finishes last on network TV every week..


Smackdown finished last in total viewership on the major networks and top (second if you count Univision) in the 18-49 category last Friday.

And FOX will be delighted. Just like Warner have said they are about AEW at every opportunity.


----------



## VGK

3venflow said:


> Smackdown finished last in total viewership on the major networks and top (second if you count Univision) in the 18-49 category last Friday.
> 
> *And FOX will be delighted. Just like Warner have said they are about AEW at every opportunity.*


And that's what really matters at the end of the day. Raw is getting all-time low ratings on USA but it doesn't really matter because what else could USA put there to get similar or better numbers?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> Just to comment on the book as pointed out it was written by one of Meltzer's friends and the WrestleCrap guy. Lots of it is based on rumours and guys like Nash, Hall, X-Pac who all lived it laugh at it and consider it shitty. I personally enjoyed the book when I read it about 15 years ago but it isn't an accurate representation of what went on.
> 
> For example, later on in the book you'll reach the 2001 section and they'll comment on some kind of segment in which Rick Steiner did something stupid, this segment never even actually happened or was edited out because I've never actually seen it.
> 
> Very inaccurate book.
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on who you ask, I believe Eric and Nash state that in 1998 it was a committee which Nash was part of, Nash was in charge of said committee in February 1999.
> 
> 
> 
> As I keep pointing out no chance do advertisers want AEW's fanbase. How are you going to sell hygiene products to guys who lift their arms at a wrestling show and send women scattering?


the data i looked at online correlates with the book so far in 1999 - they said ratings and match cards - and i went and checked and it was correct

so i have no doubt that at least the figures they discuss is correct. At least in 1999

on your baiting point on the demo / advertisers - you have no idea if your statement is true or correct and have no proof - rather go help nxt with their 62 year old fan problem or stress about keeping the BO down in your bingo hall shows


----------



## .christopher.

bdon said:


> On Saturdays.
> 
> Stop playing dumb.
> 
> Stability is key, and TNT has not offered it to AEW at all.


The extra 400 thousand that watched that Bryan segment left before any time slot change occurred. AEW had, what, a 3rd bite of that cherry (1st being the initial debut, 2nd being signing Sting) and they blew it. Again. No one to blame but themselves and their booking.


----------



## 3venflow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1461402396882612234


----------



## Erik.

3venflow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1461402396882612234


Just for comparison if it were the same percentage of people watching in the US it would be about 1.14 million or so.

AEW need a Canada tour ASAP.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ahhh… that lull before the storm

in a couple of minutes we’ll all have so many opinions on what could be done better and how everything sucks

its bliss these quiet minutes beforehand


----------



## 3venflow

Ratings are delayed again today it seems.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1461449916690149379

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

Highest viewership since October 6 before they were shifted to Saturday. Highest demo since October 27. With a normal west coast time slot, it would have done well over 1m for sure. They should aim to get the rating back over 0.40 before renewal talks to squeeze as much money out of Warner as possible.


----------



## ThunderNitro

Had Bray Wyatt debuted instead of Jay Lethal their number would have been higher
.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

climbing even with the west coast time debacle

niiiiiceeeee

nothing to see here, move along folks


----------



## jameehayter

Great number especially considering the west coast time slot


----------



## Erik.

Barely any West Coast and near a million, up on last week in both viewers and demo. 

Can't move to TBS quick enough.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> Barely any West Coast and near a million, up on last week in both viewers and demo.
> 
> Can't move to TBS quick enough.


i'm bookmarking the date to come do a little dance in this thread


----------



## 3venflow

They finished #3 in the cable rankings behind only the NBA.


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## RoganJosh

Good rating considering the west coast bollocks. Should be back over a million next week.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> They finished #3 in the cable rankings behind only the NBA.
> 
> View attachment 111948


when does the bloody challenge end again?


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

RoganJosh said:


> Good rating considering the west coast bollocks. Should be back over a million next week.


Next week is the eve of Thanksgiving. I think the ratings will drop next week 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> when does the bloody challenge end again?


I think the season finale is November 24.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> I think the season finale is November 24.


amazing - we're in for a saucy Dec


----------



## CovidFan

RoganJosh said:


> Good rating considering the west coast bollocks. Should be back over a million next week.


Big Dave predicting a significant drop for next week. Said both their previous Thanksgiving Eve shows tanked.


----------



## jameehayter

Equal to Monday in m18-49.


----------



## 3venflow

Previous Thanksgiving shows...

2019: 663,000
2020: 712,000

Both were far lower than the episodes before and after, so yeah, it does look like the trend is for a lower rating next week. I'd guess low to mid 800s.


----------



## ThunderNitro

AEW will be the number one wrestling company once they begin to get a consistent 2 million views.


----------



## jameehayter

ThunderNitro said:


> AEW will be the number one wrestling company once they begin to get a consistent 2 million views.


Funny, like for like when both shows on cable at same time Bunny beat Roman..


----------



## ThunderNitro

jameehayter said:


> Funny, like for like when both shows on cable at same time Bunny beat Roman..


Kahn’s biggest mistake was not giving Bunny a 20 minute match to start Dynamite.


----------



## Dark Emperor

So people are celebrating a post PPV show with a new champ under 1m rating now.

What's this West Coast excuse, is this even legit lol.


----------



## RoganJosh

CovidFan said:


> Big Dave predicting a significant drop for next week. Said both their previous Thanksgiving Eve shows tanked.


Damn I forgot you guys celebrate Thanksgiving. The next holiday we'll be getting over here is xmas. In America you guys seem to have a national holiday near enough every month lol. We don't get shit.


----------



## yeahright2

Ratings are in.
AEW Ratings prediction game
There´s a new player in town, @VGK who came within 4K of the total viewers, so he wins.

Not sure if below 1 million is good or bad for a PPV fallout show with a new champion, Bryan as the opener and a debuting Jay Lethal.. I guess the quarters will tell the story.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

RoganJosh said:


> Damn I forgot you guys celebrate Thanksgiving. The next holiday we'll be getting over here is xmas. In America you guys seem to have a national holiday near enough every month lol. We don't get shit.


The big ones:
New Years-January, multiple days off
Valentines Day-February
St Patty's Day-March _arguable to include this_
Easter-April/May
4th of July-July, day(s) off
Halloween-October
Thanksgiving-November, multiple days off
Christmas and others-December, multiple days off

So you're not far off.


----------



## jameehayter

yeahright2 said:


> Ratings are in.
> AEW Ratings prediction game
> There´s a new player in town, @VGK who came within 4K of the total viewers, so he wins.
> 
> Not sure if below 1 million is good or bad for a PPV fallout show with a new champion, Bryan as the opener and a debuting Jay Lethal.. I guess the quarters will tell the story.


Just curious, do you run any prediction games for other shows or promotions?? From the few post of yours that I've read it doesn't even seem you're a fan??


----------



## yeahright2

jameehayter said:


> Just curious, do you run any prediction games for other shows or promotions?? From the few post of yours that I've read it doesn't even seem you're a fan??


Nope. I only run one for AEW.. Because this is the only promotion where ratings are discussed as much as they are 

And you´re new, so you don´t really know me. I tend to be critical of things I don´t like, whether it be AEW or WWE.. And I happen to dislike the 4 people who started AEW - That doesn´t mean I can´t like stuff they´re not involved with.
From the few posts of yours I´ve read, it seems like you´re the stereotypical AEW loyalist who defend everything... Or a rejoiner of sorts.


----------



## DammitChrist

yeahright2 said:


> Nope. I only run one for AEW.. Because this is the only promotion where ratings are discussed as much as they are
> 
> And you´re new, so you don´t really know me. I tend to be critical of things I don´t like, whether it be AEW or WWE.. And I happen to dislike the 4 people who started AEW - That doesn´t mean I can´t like stuff they´re not involved with.
> From the few posts of yours I´ve read, it seems like you´re the stereotypical AEW loyalist who defend everything... Or a rejoiner of sorts.


You must respect those 4 AEW wrestlers that helped make this company grow though!


----------



## Randy Lahey

Good number. Fans definitely approve of Hangman as champ.


----------



## jameehayter

yeahright2 said:


> Nope. I only run one for AEW.. Because this is the only promotion where ratings are discussed as much as they are
> 
> And you´re new, so you don´t really know me. I tend to be critical of things I don´t like, whether it be AEW or WWE.. And I happen to dislike the 4 people who started AEW - That doesn´t mean I can´t like stuff they´re not involved with.
> From the few posts of yours I´ve read, it seems like you´re the stereotypical AEW loyalist who defend everything... Or a rejoiner of sorts.


No, all other show ratings are followed in-depth even impact. Nothing special about dynamite.

It's clear you're monitoring ratings with the hope the company fails. Irony is aew has grown year on year & will next year again with a stronger lead in & less preemptions.

Should've focused on the other Wednesday night war participant if you wanted to see a death spiral.

Big question is why this forum is facilitating this?!


----------



## jameehayter

DammitChrist said:


> You must respect those 4 AEW wrestlers that helped make this company grow though!


Hates the creators but tracks weekly ratings including putting in work to run guessing game, but not a hater!!


----------



## yeahright2

DammitChrist said:


> You must respect those 4 AEW wrestlers that helped make this company grow though!


Sure, I can respect Bryan, Punk, Cole and Christian


----------



## yeahright2

jameehayter said:


> No, all other show ratings are followed in-depth even impact. Nothing special about dynamite.
> 
> It's clear you're monitoring ratings with the hope the company fails. Irony is aew has grown year on year & will next year again with a stronger lead in & less preemptions.
> 
> Should've focused on the other Wednesday night war participant if you wanted to see a death spiral.
> 
> Big question is why this forum is facilitating this?!


Okay, you´re just another troll, so we´re done. I will not reply to you anymore.


----------



## jameehayter

yeahright2 said:


> Okay, you´re just another troll, so we´re done. I will not reply to you anymore.


Because I'm pointing out that you're putting in so much effort tracking the ratings of a show you actively hate?!


----------



## DammitChrist

yeahright2 said:


> Sure, I can respect Bryan, Punk, Cole and Christian


Okay, that works too


----------



## La Parka

yeahright2 said:


> Okay, you´re just another troll, so we´re done. I will not reply to you anymore.


dudes gotta be pippen at this point...

because my god...


----------



## .christopher.

yeahright2 said:


> Okay, you´re just another troll, so we´re done. I will not reply to you anymore.


@jameehayter is 100% a rejoiner or alt. No doubt aboot tha'.


----------



## La Parka

.christopher. said:


> @jameehayter is 100% a rejoiner or alt. No doubt aboot tha'.


at least RLStern has the decency to be open about it.

some of these others have no DAMN SHAME


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Yeah I'm pretty sure Hayter is Pippen to be honest. Been here 3 days and is already arguing about how shitty Aussie Wrestling is and how great and perfect AEW is.

Both were huge Pippen arguments.


----------



## .christopher.

La Parka said:


> at least RLStern has the decency to be open about it.
> 
> some of these others have no DAMN SHAME


I think you're spot on with the lil ol' pip shout, brother. These JABRONIS need to grow some COJONES


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*The show was really good except for the Dark Order gauntlet that we're going to have to watch. Shida vs Nyla delivered and told the story it needed to tell. Shida seems to be the only person capable of getting above average matches out of Nyla.*


----------



## One Shed

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah I'm pretty sure Hayter is Pippen to be honest. Been here 3 days and is already arguing about how shitty Aussie Wrestling is and how great and perfect AEW is.
> 
> Both were huge Pippen arguments.





.christopher. said:


> I think you're spot on with the lil ol' pip shout, brother. These JABRONIS need to grow some COJONES


He definitely sounds a lot like @Pippen94. The complete lack of grammar and coherence make a strong case.


----------



## MEMS

What’s the issue with the west coast? I’m missing something here…


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

La Parka said:


> dudes gotta be pippen at this point...
> 
> because my god...





.christopher. said:


> @jameehayter is 100% a rejoiner or alt. No doubt aboot tha'.





La Parka said:


> at least RLStern has the decency to be open about it.
> 
> some of these others have no DAMN SHAME





Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah I'm pretty sure Hayter is Pippen to be honest. Been here 3 days and is already arguing about how shitty Aussie Wrestling is and how great and perfect AEW is.
> 
> Both were huge Pippen arguments.





.christopher. said:


> I think you're spot on with the lil ol' pip shout, brother. These JABRONIS need to grow some COJONES





Two Sheds said:


> He definitely sounds a lot like @Pippen94. The complete lack of grammar and coherence make a strong case.


i seem to remember getting banned for a week for saying @BroncoBuster3 was a rejoiner in this very thread @Firefromthegods


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i seem to remember getting banned for a week for saying @BroncoBuster3 was a rejoiner in this very thread @Firefromthegods


You got banned for antagonising Bronco constantly for weeks. I'm just pointing out that old mate seems to be an awful lot like Pippen...


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> You got banned for antagonising Bronco constantly for weeks. I'm just pointing out that old mate seems to be an awful lot like Pippen...


nope - it was 2 posts on one day to bronco - i remember, i was there

but don‘t worry, i’m only joking (hence the smirk emoji  )


----------



## 3venflow

The west coast is having a 6.9 to 9.2% effect on ratings apparently.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> The west coast is having a 6.9 to 9.2% effect on ratings apparently.


mmm - i can buy that

so 60k to 90k people


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> climbing even with the west coast time debacle
> 
> niiiiiceeeee
> 
> nothing to see here, move along folks


You and I both know they won’t acknowledge this.


----------



## bdon

CovidFan said:


> Big Dave predicting a significant drop for next week. Said both their previous Thanksgiving Eve shows tanked.


Because young people are gathering at local watering holes and catching up with classmates as this is one of the few times a year when everyone can all get together.


----------



## bdon

Dark Emperor said:


> So people are celebrating a post PPV umahiw with a new champ under 1m rating now.
> 
> What's this West Coast excuse, is this even legit lol.


You live in England, so this is probably something you don’t quite understand. The shows are airing live on the West Coast, so anyone on the West Coast is just getting off work or stuck in traffic at 5pm, which is when Dynamite is airing in that part of the country.

It isn’t to blame for AEW not hitting 2m viewers or anything, but it can easily be the difference in them consistently hitting the 1.1m mark.


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah I'm pretty sure Hayter is Pippen to be honest. Been here 3 days and is already arguing about how shitty Aussie Wrestling is and how great and perfect AEW is.
> 
> Both were huge Pippen arguments.


I will not call him a kid. I will not call him a kid. I will not call him a kid…

TELL EM, BDON!!!


----------



## jameehayter

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah I'm pretty sure Hayter is Pippen to be honest. Been here 3 days and is already arguing about how shitty Aussie Wrestling is and how great and perfect AEW is.
> 
> Both were huge Pippen arguments.


Anybody with eyes can see it's smalltime & shit.

Great that you have a hobby, but don't mistake what you do as anything approaching the professionals.


----------



## jameehayter

La Parka said:


> dudes gotta be pippen at this point...
> 
> because my god...


This Pippen sounds like a smart & articulate guy. Probably run out of this place because he doesn't suffer from the same affliction the rest of you do, which is a sad existence.

Instead of striving to improve your lot, you're here hoping those who are more successful fall. 
The universe has a funny way of working things out. The object of your derision is thriving, while people are wasting theirs lives here hating (how many years has it been?!)

Losers


----------



## Chip Chipperson

jameehayter said:


> This Pippen sounds like a smart & articulate guy. Probably run out of this place because he doesn't suffer from the same affliction the rest of you do, which is a sad existence.
> 
> Instead of striving to improve your lot, you're here hoping those who are more successful fall.
> The universe has a funny way of working things out. The object of your derision is thriving, while people are wasting theirs lives here hating (how many years has it been?!)
> 
> Losers


Pippen actually got run out of this place because he would be unnecessarily aggressive when anyone criticised AEW...kind of like you're doing right now.

What was Pippen's final nail in the coffin that lead to him being permanently banned? Can someone tell me?


----------



## jameehayter

yeahright2 said:


> Nope. I only run one for AEW.. Because this is the only promotion where ratings are discussed as much as they are
> 
> And you´re new, so you don´t really know me. I tend to be critical of things I don´t like, whether it be AEW or WWE.. And I happen to dislike the 4 people who started AEW - That doesn´t mean I can´t like stuff they´re not involved with.
> From the few posts of yours I´ve read, it seems like you´re the stereotypical AEW loyalist who defend everything... Or a rejoiner of sorts.


This guy & his activity pisses me off because it's basically organized hating, sanctioned & approved by the moderator of this board. It's established to anybody who reads his posts he dislikes the company, yet tracks business metrics & numbers for some unknown purpose. Well, bitterness & death riding is the purpose.
He's a pitiful figure for sure, but the board allows him to be.


----------



## jameehayter

Chip Chipperson said:


> Pippen actually got run out of this place because he would be unnecessarily aggressive when anyone criticised AEW...kind of like you're doing right now.
> 
> What was Pippen's final nail in the coffin that lead to him being permanently banned? Can someone tell me?


Some vague reason like baiting, which can't be defined & is completely at the discretion of a moderator installed by known trolls..


----------



## VGK

jameehayter said:


> This guy & his activity pisses me off because it's basically organized hating, sanctioned & approved by the moderator of this board. It's established to anybody who reads his posts he dislikes the company, yet tracks business metrics & numbers for some unknown purpose. Well, bitterness & death riding is the purpose.
> He's a pitiful figure for sure, but the board allows him to be.


It's just a game bro, relax lol. It's also a game I won on my 1st attempt playing too.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

jameehayter said:


> This guy & his activity pisses me off because it's basically organized hating, sanctioned & approved by the moderator of this board. It's established to anybody who reads his posts he dislikes the company, yet tracks business metrics & numbers for some unknown purpose. Well, bitterness & death riding is the purpose.
> He's a pitiful figure for sure, but the board allows him to be.


Are people not allowed to do that? You know back in the day the WWF fans and WCW fans mocked the other for losing, right? ECW used to mock both brands as well and have really good knowledge of both products.

I don't know who "he" is that you're referring to but speaking for myself I track AEW and what it's doing because I have a big interest in the business side of the wrestling industry. WWE isn't interesting, they win everything all the time but I actively follow the business dealings of AEW, ROH (Not anymore), Impact and even smaller promotions if I can find information out such as the NWA.

People are allowed to post negative things here, this was your undoing before. This isn't an AEW fan site its a forum to discuss the good, bad and indifferent in wrestling.



jameehayter said:


> Some vague reason like baiting, which can't be defined & is completely at the discretion of a moderator installed by known trolls..


@Firefromthegods

Pippen confirmed.


----------



## yeahright2

jameehayter said:


> Some vague reason like baiting, which can't be defined & is completely at the discretion of a moderator installed by known trolls..


And how would you know that, seeing how your account is 3 days old? Now, be silent while the grownups are talking.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

jameehayter said:


> This Pippen sounds like a smart & articulate guy. Probably run out of this place because he doesn't suffer from the same affliction the rest of you do, which is a sad existence.
> 
> Instead of striving to improve your lot, you're here hoping those who are more successful fall.
> The universe has a funny way of working things out. The object of your derision is thriving, while people are wasting theirs lives here hating (how many years has it been?!)
> 
> Losers


lol, hi pippen


----------



## El Hammerstone

There was a high probability for me before, but yeah, now it's a certainty; Hi Pippen


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Are people not allowed to do that? You know back in the day the WWF fans and WCW fans mocked the other for losing, right? ECW used to mock both brands as well and have really good knowledge of both products.
> 
> I don't know who "he" is that you're referring to but speaking for myself I track AEW and what it's doing because I have a big interest in the business side of the wrestling industry. WWE isn't interesting, they win everything all the time but I actively follow the business dealings of AEW, ROH (Not anymore), Impact and even smaller promotions if I can find information out such as the NWA.
> 
> People are allowed to post negative things here, this was your undoing before. This isn't an AEW fan site its a forum to discuss the good, bad and indifferent in wrestling.
> 
> 
> 
> @Firefromthegods
> 
> Pippen confirmed.


Should be an automatic ban.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

bdon said:


> Should be an automatic ban.


Ah it breaks my heart to hear you say that, Bdon. Everyone allowed you your negative opinions when you had em'


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Ah it breaks my heart to hear you say that, Bdon. Everyone allowed you your negative opinions when you had em'


I’m not talking about you, bro. I meant making a new account to get around being banned as Pip. Fuck that ki…errr…”guy”. Lol


----------



## jameehayter

Chip Chipperson said:


> Are people not allowed to do that? You know back in the day the WWF fans and WCW fans mocked the other for losing, right? ECW used to mock both brands as well and have really good knowledge of both products.
> 
> I don't know who "he" is that you're referring to but speaking for myself I track AEW and what it's doing because I have a big interest in the business side of the wrestling industry. WWE isn't interesting, they win everything all the time but I actively follow the business dealings of AEW, ROH (Not anymore), Impact and even smaller promotions if I can find information out such as the NWA.
> 
> People are allowed to post negative things here, this was your undoing before. This isn't an AEW fan site its a forum to discuss the good, bad and indifferent in wrestling.
> 
> 
> 
> @Firefromthegods
> 
> Pippen confirmed.


That's not true because I will be silenced soon. 

There's nothing wrong with rallying against ceaseless negative & misinformation, regardless how open you think this place should be.


----------



## jameehayter

bdon said:


> Should be an automatic ban.


Well, you're a homophobe but I guess that doesn't matter..



El Hammerstone said:


> If my math is correct, and I believe it is, then Pippen should have reached a certain age by now wherein certain things begin happening to the body; in that regard, I see this sudden outburst and sympathize a bit. These can be confusing times.


Pretty soon he is going to realize his mom and I are not just reenacting our favorite matches every night.

I am going to have to ask her to take his cell phone and Young Bucks dolls away from him again.



jameehayter said:


> Good on you mate, go back to discord & workshop another 8th grade putdown. Of course you're 40 years old, but then again what type of of 40 year old belongs to a discord gang?!


At least I made it all the way through the eighth grade. You will be old enough to join Discord soon enough, no need to be jealous.

Pippen ain't easy, but his mom sure is.



JeSeGaN said:


> It doesn't matter if he was a pedo.
> 
> Would you still be okay with it if he shot some really nice guy?


Yeah if the nice guy turned out to be a piece of shit.

You can tell that bruiser nobody didn't watch the trial.



Rick_James said:


> A few things, according to some reports over 90% of BLM protests are non-violent. I feel that right wingers generally talk in over generalizations here. In most cases "cities that got burned down" is code for "ok they broke windows at a CVS". Which obviously is a bad thing. But a wide range of these protests are peaceful and while there are outliers, it feels right wing media has gone to great lengths to make anyone that uses their right to protest out to be a terrorist. Hence why counter protesters bring guns to their rallies. My biggest gripe is it's being used as a tactic to essentially stop people from having the ability to protest, and we will probably see more cases where people kill other humans.
> 
> As for cultural shifts, can you elaborate here? In most cases I find that the cultural shifts that people are upset about really don't affect their lives. For example Mr. Potato head or Aunt Jemima changing their name isn't really changing your quality of life, is it?
> 
> I don't disagree that the media and corporations are concerned with racking up riches and power, I do think that pointing at the culture war though plays into their narrative though. At the end of the day the politicians that want to help the rich get richer know that if they run off that platform, they won't get votes, but if they make it out as if America is under attack by illegal immigrants, or that "your kids minds will be warped by CRT", it's easy to get people to vote against their own interests.


You must support that bs organization with the bs you're spouting? Those weren't protests. AT ALL!


----------



## jameehayter

yeahright2 said:


> And how would you know that, seeing how your account is 3 days old? Now, be silent while the grownups are talking.


Here for only a brief time & not a good time either. This place is cesspool where people spin bitterness to compensate for inadequacies.. There I go talking about something you're an expert in.

Also, nice to return albeit briefly to smack Chip when he starts acting like he's Bill Watts..


----------



## El Hammerstone

If my math is correct, and I believe it is, then Pippen should have reached a certain age by now wherein certain things begin happening to the body; in that regard, I see this sudden outburst and sympathize a bit. These can be confusing times.


----------



## jameehayter

Two Sheds said:


> Pretty soon he is going to realize his mom and I are not just reenacting our favorite matches every night.
> 
> I am going to have to ask her to take his cell phone and Young Bucks dolls away from him again.


Good on you mate, go back to discord & workshop another 8th grade putdown. Of course you're 40 years old, but then again what type of of 40 year old belongs to a discord gang?!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

discord gang, lol

pippen, i’ll miss you when FFTG wakes up

next time, VPN to a different country


----------



## CM Buck

@jameehayter sorry pippen time for you to go. Feel free to message ger on the way out so ger can harass me about that too


----------



## Prized Fighter

Firefromthegods said:


> @jameehayter sorry pippen time for you to go. Feel free to message ger on the way out so ger can harass me about that too


Reading the last couple pages of the thread is like a good wrestling storyline. You know how it is going to end, but it was worth taking the journey. A bit too many promos for my liking though, we could have used more time in-ring.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

jameehayter said:


> Good on you mate, go back to discord & workshop another 8th grade putdown.


Pippen feels good talking shit about the 8th graders because he reached 9th this year.


----------



## bdon

jameehayter said:


> Well, you're a homophobe but I guess that doesn't matter..


I thought name-calling ended in grade school.

Ohhhh. Wait a sec… lol


----------



## bdon

Prized Fighter said:


> Reading the last couple pages of the thread is like a good wrestling storyline. You know how it is going to end, but it was worth taking the journey. A bit too many promos for my liking though, we could have used more time in-ring.


Very sports entertainment-y lol


----------



## Prosper

Lol was that actually Pippen? Didn't seem like his posting style to me. MoxAsylum though you can tell within the first sentence that it's him.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

THIS IS WRESTLING _CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP_ THIS IS WRESTLING


----------



## .christopher.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> discord gang, lol
> 
> pippen, i’ll miss you when FFTG wakes up
> 
> next time, VPN to a different country


Nothing to do with ip addresses, brother. Lil ol' pip gave himself away the day he rejoined by immediately going after chip, his promotion and Australian wrestling in general. Like, the fool was as discreet as an elephant in a birds nest.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

.christopher. said:


> Nothing to do with ip addresses, brother. Lil ol' pip gave himself away the day he rejoined by immediately going after chip, his promotion and Australian wrestling in general. Like, the fool was as discreet as an elephant in a birds nest.


Yeah, no - he should change his VPN AND not be so obvious   

He almost approached Carter levels there at the end


----------



## bdon

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> THIS IS WRESTLING _CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP_ THIS IS WRESTLING


Slightly better than your personal favorite, “JERRY! JERRY! JERRY! JERRY!”


----------



## .christopher.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Yeah, no - he should change his VPN AND not be so obvious
> 
> He almost approached Carter levels there at the end


Can't be too harsh on pip. Being held back to year 5 in school takes its toll on a boy.


----------



## sideon

jameehayter said:


> Funny, like for like when both shows on cable at same time Bunny beat Roman..


Except she didn't since 300k more people watched Roman & Brock sign a contract, and it was on FS1 which isn't in nearly as many homes as TNT. So WWE got more viewers on a crap channel than AEW got on a premiere cable channel. The NFL just put out their top rated games of 2021 so far, and nowhere did they mention the demos since no one gives a damn about it.


----------



## Aedubya

What is all this complete gibberish filling the thread past few pages? Another attempt to ruin it probably

What were the ratings please?


----------



## thorn123

Aedubya said:


> What is all this complete gibberish filling the thread past few pages? Another attempt to ruin it probably
> 
> What were the ratings please?


I think just below a million. Deserved more.


----------



## La Parka

Easily the best alt account yet.

pippen did a whole ass sitcom trope of putting on a fake moustache and praising himself.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*I like how everyone on both sides of the aisle could unite over their disdain of Pippen.*


----------



## yeahright2

The Legit DMD said:


> *I like how everyone on both sides of the aisle could unite over their disdain of Pippen.*


We´re in a better place now than we was a year ago. We still have our differences, but at least we can agree to disagree and have fun with each other.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

yeahright2 said:


> We´re in a better place now than we was a year ago. We still have our differences, but at least we can agree to disagree and have fun with each other.


Oh fuck has it really been almost a year since the Angry Aussies vs AEW Shills feud? Time flies.


----------



## Erik.

The first quarter with Page, The Dark Order and Bryan Danielson out did 991,000 viewers and 488,000 in 18-49. This was the high point of the show with 18-34.

Danielson vs. Evil Uno and promos by Danielson and MJF did 960,000 viewers and 462,000 in 18-49.

Quarter three with 2.0 and Daniel Garcia with Eddie Kingston and Butcher & Blade vs. Orange Cassidy & Tomohiro Ishii did 942,000 viewers and 457,000 in 18-49.

Quarter four with a Tully Blanchard & FTR & Andrade promo. a Tay Conti promo, a Britt Baker & Jamie Hayter & Rebel promo and the beginning of Rose vs. Shida did 961,000 viewers and 462,000 in 18-49.

Most of Rose vs. Shida plus the segment with MJF, Shawn Spears, Wardlow and Punk did 1,049,000 viewers and 501,000 in 18-49. This was the high point for total viewers and for women 18-49.

Quarter six with Darby Allin and the Gunn Club, Bucks & Cole & Bobby Fish and most of Lio Rush & Dante Martin vs. The Acclaimed did 969,000 viewers and 486,000 in 18-49.

Quarter seven with the last three minutes of the tag match, and interviews with Jungle Boy & Luchasaurus & Christian and Penta & Fenix & Alex Abrahantes did 993,000 viewers and 477,000 in 18-49.

Sammy Guevara vs. Jay Lethal for the TNT title did 1,006,000 viewers and 507,000 in 18-49. It was the high point for men 18-49 and overall18-49.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> The first quarter with Page, The Dark Order and Bryan Danielson out did 991,000 viewers and 488,000 in 18-49. This was the high point of the show with 18-34.
> 
> Danielson vs. Evil Uno and promos by Danielson and MJF did 960,000 viewers and 462,000 in 18-49.
> 
> Quarter three with 2.0 and Daniel Garcia with Eddie Kingston and Butcher & Blade vs. Orange Cassidy & Tomohiro Ishii did 942,000 viewers and 457,000 in 18-49.
> 
> Quarter four with a Tully Blanchard & FTR & Andrade promo. a Tay Conti promo, a Britt Baker & Jamie Hayter & Rebel promo and the beginning of Rose vs. Shida did 961,000 viewers and 462,000 in 18-49.
> 
> Most of Rose vs. Shida plus the segment with MJF, Shawn Spears, Wardlow and Punk did 1,049,000 viewers and 501,000 in 18-49. This was the high point for total viewers and for women 18-49.
> 
> Quarter six with Darby Allin and the Gunn Club, Bucks & Cole & Bobby Fish and most of Lio Rush & Dante Martin vs. The Acclaimed did 969,000 viewers and 486,000 in 18-49.
> 
> Quarter seven with the last three minutes of the tag match, and interviews with Jungle Boy & Luchasaurus & Christian and Penta & Fenix & Alex Abrahantes did 993,000 viewers and 477,000 in 18-49.
> 
> Sammy Guevara vs. Jay Lethal for the TNT title did 1,006,000 viewers and 507,000 in 18-49. It was the high point for men 18-49 and overall18-49.


title matches really do well

the tnt title was a great idea - my fav title currently


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Sammy vs Lethal was absolute fire. Good on them for breaking a mil, and good on Shida vs Nyla being the high point of total viewership. Let this be your weekly reminder that having strong showcases for the women's division creates the most gains in viewership. 

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1461689408348835845*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Sammy vs Lethal was absolute fire. Good on them for breaking a mil.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1461689408348835845*


that is a nice climb year on year

great to see


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1461747101432492033

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1461747101432492033
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*Look at that massive spike for Shida vs Nyla!*


----------



## Garty

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1461747101432492033
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Two of the replies to the tweet mentioned, _"Q5 and after is when us west coasters get home" _and _"Would be like 7:50, so more prime-time hours"_

Being live on both coasts is the issue with the 100,000 - 200,000 drop in numbers.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1461747101432492033
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Geez, that is either a nice spike for Nyla / Shida or a nice spike for MJF / Punk

Sammy also doing the business - love to see it


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1461759040913133570*


----------



## Not Lying

It's a shame AEW losing Mox and Omega, but Bryan/Page and Punk/MJF should be good to carry the brand. Throw in Darby, Miro, Black and Britt and they'll be fine.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW has a deep enough roster now to survive a bunch of injuries. Imagine in the early days had Jericho, Mox and Omega all gotten injured around the same time. Cody would have been the only recognisable main event star supported by PAC, a far less over Hangman and maybe Penta who they could've pushed. MJF, Darby, Jungle Boy and Sammy were early works in progress.


----------



## Erik.

Record breaking PPV year for AEW.


The Definition of Technician said:


> It's a shame AEW losing Mox and Omega, but Bryan/Page and Punk/MJF should be good to carry the brand. Throw in Darby, Miro, Black and Britt and they'll be fine.


It just shows, not only how well AEW have booked what you'd consider their top stars, but how good the roster is.

No Moxley, No Omega, even Jericho is about to go on a tour I believe yet they can still put out Dynamite's as good and as entertaining as the one we've just seen.


----------



## La Parka

The Legit DMD said:


> *
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1461759040913133570*


Apparently, there is no potential audience!


----------



## Jay Trotter

Look at the trend line on the quarter hours. It's obvious they would've soared over 1 million viewers if not for this airing live on the West Coast BS. Just a fact. That was the true reason for the spike to start the second hour for those that beat the 5pm traffic just getting home to watch live. Shida and Nyla has been done to death in two years so that match alone wasn't pulling in any extra eyeballs. Is this crap really lasting for another month? Numbers won't improve until this is over.


----------



## DammitChrist

sideon said:


> Except she didn't since 300k more people watched Roman & Brock sign a contract, and it was on FS1 which isn't in nearly as many homes as TNT. So WWE got more viewers on a crap channel than AEW got on a premiere cable channel. The NFL just put out their top rated games of 2021 so far, and nowhere did they mention the demos since no one gives a damn about it.


Except for the fact that the current Universal Champion STILL lost the younger audience to the Bunny, and the demographic numbers STILL matter  

Quit trying to weasel around those facts simply because the truth troubles you.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *Sammy vs Lethal was absolute fire. Good on them for breaking a mil, and good on Shida vs Nyla being the high point of total viewership. Let this be your weekly reminder that having strong showcases for the women's division creates the most gains in viewership.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1461689408348835845*


Did you really just ignore giving credit to CM Punk and MJF as well for their highly rated segment?


----------



## yeahright2

What I got from those quarter ratings is that Pockets isn´t as big a draw as some people think..


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> What I got from those quarter ratings is that Pockets isn´t as big a draw as some people think..


so, more Nyla Rose then?


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> so, more Nyla Rose then?


More Shida


----------



## Irish Jet

yeahright2 said:


> What I got from those quarter ratings is that Pockets isn´t as big a draw as some people think..


Anyone who thinks that goofball could draw a dime is out of their mind to begin with. He’s a comedian with one joke. The fact that he gets the pop he does every week says a lot about the people who go to these shows.


----------



## Sad Panda

Irish Jet said:


> Anyone who thinks that goofball could draw a dime is out of their mind to begin with. He’s a comedian with one joke. The fact that he gets the pop he does every week says a lot about the people who go to these shows.


What does it say about them?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Sad Panda said:


> What does it say about them?


Easily pleased.


----------



## Sad Panda

Chip Chipperson said:


> Easily pleased.


Or they actually find it amusing? Do you judge someone that likes dumb/stupid comedy because it’s not as classic as Citizen Kane? 

Wrestling isn’t black and white. It’s a melting pot of all different colors. Also, when you go to a show there are kids consistently dressed like or rooting for Darby Allin or Orange Cassidy. He serves a purpose.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Sad Panda said:


> Or they actually find it amusing? Do you judge someone that likes dumb/stupid comedy because it’s not as classic as Citizen Kane?
> 
> Wrestling isn’t black and white. It’s a melting pot of all different colors. Also, when you go to a show there are kids consistently dressed like or rooting for Darby Allin or Orange Cassidy. He serves a purpose.


I know that this is a thing on Twitter and social media but to be honest its a rarity to see children in the crowd of an AEW show let alone ones dressed as Darby and Orange.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

MJF promo and Punk getting a pretty big number, nice. 

It definitely looks like a more steady show than what you usually see breakdown-wise.


----------



## VGK

Erik. said:


> Record breaking PPV year for AEW.
> 
> 
> It just shows, not only how well AEW have booked what you'd consider their top stars, but how good the roster is.
> 
> No Moxley, No Omega, even *Jericho* is about to go on a tour I believe yet they can still put out Dynamite's as good and as entertaining as the one we've just seen.


A break from Jericho would be refreshing. His work has fallen off since he lost the title last year.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

#BadNewsSanta said:


> MJF promo and Punk getting a pretty big number, nice.
> 
> It definitely looks like a more steady show than what you usually see breakdown-wise.


*Stop. Punk did nothing and wasn't advertised.*


----------



## VGK

The Legit DMD said:


> *Stop. Punk did nothing and wasn't advertised.*


So MJF gets all the credit?


----------



## $Dolladrew$

The Legit DMD said:


> *Stop. Punk did nothing and wasn't advertised.*


Yeah cuz I'm sure people were clamoring for Nyla vs Shida for the umpteenth time LMFAO.

Definetly punk and mjf


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Chip Chipperson said:


> I know that this is a thing on Twitter and social media but to be honest its a rarity to see children in the crowd of an AEW show let alone ones dressed as Darby and Orange.


You're wrong watch the shows so your opinions are based in fact not based in opinions you heard while shouting at clouds again.


----------



## $Dolladrew$

Full gear ppv buyrates are pretty damn good up by a good margin from last year AEW doing well.


----------



## BroncoBuster3

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i seem to remember getting banned for a week for saying @BroncoBuster3 was a rejoiner in this very thread @Firefromthegods


Difference is you were wrong


----------



## SammySammyTNT

Chip Chipperson said:


> I know that this is a thing on Twitter and social media but to be honest its a rarity to see children in the crowd of an AEW show let alone ones dressed as Darby and Orange.


You continue to provide absolutely 0 evidence of your statements, continue to be a trolling and baiting piece of shit. You deserve all the death threats you get, and I wish someone would carry it out already. You have no wrestling promotion nor a wife, also in that crybaby victim post you made you said your girlfriend was threatened, so which is it, girlfriend or wife? Stupid ass bum can't even keep his lies straight lmao. Tony Khan could kick your ass with one arm tied behind his back and you know this and it must kill you inside lmao!


----------



## BroncoBuster3

SammySammyTNT said:


> You continue to provide absolutely 0 evidence of your statements, continue to be a trolling and baiting piece of shit. You deserve all the death threats you get, and I wish someone would carry it out already. You have no wrestling promotion nor a wife, also in that crybaby victim post you made you said your girlfriend was threatened, so which is it, girlfriend or wife? Stupid ass bum can't even keep his lies straight lmao. Tony Khan could kick your ass with one arm tied behind his back and you know this and it must kill you inside lmao!


I hope before this is deleted and forgotten about the information is kept and documented so that the right people can be contacted when necessary.


----------



## El Hammerstone

BroncoBuster3 said:


> I hope before this is deleted and forgotten about the information is kept and documented so that the right people can be contacted when necessary.


Don't worry, Chrome rarely lasts 10 minutes


----------



## Chip Chipperson

SammySammyTNT said:


> You continue to provide absolutely 0 evidence of your statements, continue to be a trolling and baiting piece of shit. You deserve all the death threats you get, and I wish someone would carry it out already. You have no wrestling promotion nor a wife, also in that crybaby victim post you made you said your girlfriend was threatened, so which is it, girlfriend or wife? Stupid ass bum can't even keep his lies straight lmao. Tony Khan could kick your ass with one arm tied behind his back and you know this and it must kill you inside lmao!


Its girlfriend, here in Aus when you say "Mrs" that's a slang term for partner. 

Ladies and Gentlemen the AEW fanbase on display here. "YOU DON'T LIKE THE DUB I HOPE YOU DIE"


----------



## KingofKings1524

Chip Chipperson said:


> Its girlfriend, here in Aus when you say "Mrs" that's a slang term for partner.
> 
> Ladies and Gentlemen the AEW fanbase on display here. "YOU DON'T LIKE THE DUB I HOPE YOU DIE"


Let’s not pretend that Chrome is the AEW fanbase.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

KingofKings1524 said:


> Let’s not pretend that Chrome is the AEW fanbase.


One of the more extreme members of the base but a fan nonetheless.

I won't suggest that all AEW fans send death threats though, CattleClass and I have had beef but he's never said someone should kill me...

Not to my face anyway.


----------



## Sad Panda

Chip Chipperson said:


> Its girlfriend, here in Aus when you say "Mrs" that's a slang term for partner.
> 
> Ladies and Gentlemen the AEW fanbase on display here. "YOU DON'T LIKE THE DUB I HOPE YOU DIE"


This is an extremist. I would hope you realize that this person is more an outlier.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Sad Panda said:


> This is an extremist. I would hope you realize that this person is more an outlier.


As he references in his post a fair few people have tried this. @Firefromthegods has done a fairly good job in getting rid of most of them though.


----------



## Sad Panda

Chip Chipperson said:


> As he references in his post a fair few people have tried this. @Firefromthegods has done a fairly good job in getting rid of most of them though.



That’s good. I’m all for banter but that stuff is completely uncalled for.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Chrome really has nothing better to do with his life does he? Spent all of his time on here for years and since his ban he's been crying ever since and straight up acted like am attention whore. Move on dude, a forum meaning this much to you is not normal.


----------



## OuterCircle

Chip Chipperson said:


> Its girlfriend, here in Aus when you say "Mrs" that's a slang term for partner.
> 
> Ladies and Gentlemen the AEW fanbase on display here. "YOU DON'T LIKE THE DUB I HOPE YOU DIE"


"Slang"
















Nope, you're a lying, two-faced sack of shit who needs his head rammed up a kangaroo's ass. And I'm guessing a guy in an AEW shirt fucked your fat whore of a mother or something huh? Is that why you have such vitriol for the AEW fan base? Or is it something that only a trip to the funny farm could answer? I'm sure you've been there a few times.


----------



## OuterCircle

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Chrome really has nothing better to do with his life does he? Spent all of his time on here for years and since his ban he's been crying ever since and straight up acted like am attention whore. Move on dude, a forum meaning this much to you is not normal.


I hope you and @La Parka wear kneepads when you go down on the ol' Chippah.


----------



## La Parka

OuterCircle said:


> I hope you and @La Parka wear kneepads when you go down on the ol' Chippah.


All your roasts are straight out of 2006.

w a c k


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> I know that this is a thing on Twitter and social media but to be honest its a rarity to see children in the crowd of an AEW show let alone ones dressed as Darby and Orange.


how would you know?

you watch youtube clips at most - and not all clips

you’ve said this yourself multiple times


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

BroncoBuster3 said:


> Difference is you were wrong


hey Bronco, hows your roommate Romeo?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> One of the more extreme members of the base but a fan nonetheless.
> 
> I won't suggest that all AEW fans send death threats though, CattleClass and I have had beef but he's never said someone should kill me...
> 
> Not to my face anyway.


of course not - that’ll be a horrible thing to say - to someones’ face or behind their back

wrestling is not that important


----------



## RoganJosh

OuterCircle said:


> I hope you and @La Parka wear kneepads when you go down on the ol' Chippah.


Someone ban this clown.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

OuterCircle said:


> "Slang"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, you're a lying, two-faced sack of shit


*'The Mrs / The Missus' meaning*

*One Definition*

Someone’s wife; can be your own or someon elses wife; Not a derogitory term, simply a way of saying “wife”, “partner”, or “girlfriend”; typically used when the relationship is long term / serious. Definitely not used for one night stands or short term interludes.







__





What does "The Mrs / The Missus" mean in Australia? The Outback Dictionary







outbackdictionary.com







LifeInCattleClass said:


> how would you know?
> 
> you watch youtube clips at most - and not all clips
> 
> you’ve said this yourself multiple times


True. You can see the crowd from a clip though but maybe in a cutaway there are a heap of kids dressed up as Darby and Orange...


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> True. You can see the crowd from a clip though but maybe in a cutaway there are a heap of kids dressed up as Darby and Orange...


there are - its become a thing

always see kids dressed as OC or Darby (mainly cause they get invited to the ring after the show a lot i would guess, but it definitely happens)


----------



## shandcraig

dont forget your pronouns boys


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> there are - its become a thing
> 
> always see kids dressed as OC or Darby (mainly cause they get invited to the ring after the show a lot i would guess, but it definitely happens)


Fair enough, then I am wrong.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ps> whomever is arguing with chip about ‘the mrs’ or ‘the missus’

he is correct / its for a wife or longtime partner


----------



## La Parka

Someone was dressed up as evil uno last week.

Why won't anyone dress as Marko stunt


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

La Parka said:


> Someone was dressed up as evil uno last week.
> 
> Why won't anyone dress as Marko stunt


there are thousands - you don’t see them - they are on their knees

in other news, i’m shocked marko is still brought up / when last was he even on dynamite / rampage?

rumour is, he’s also moved to the ‘per appearance’ tier

edit> 3rd of march - long time ago


----------



## 3venflow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> in other news, i’m shocked marko is still brought up / when last was he even on dynamite / rampage?


Two months since he wrestled for AEW. I think he appeared to help Christian/Jurassics one time after that, but he hasn't been seen lately.

Last time he wrestled on Dynamite was March at St. Patrick's Day Slam.

On the topic, Sonny Kiss hasn't wrestled on Dynamite since losing to Kenny in October 2020, but a lot of people still bring up names like this as guys who shouldn't be on shows.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Two months since he wrestled for AEW. I think he appeared to help Christian/Jurassics one time after that, but he hasn't been seen lately.
> 
> Last time he wrestled on Dynamite was March at St. Patrick's Day Slam.
> 
> On the topic, Sonny Kiss hasn't wrestled on Dynamite since losing to Kenny in October 2020, but a lot of people still bring up names like this as guys who shouldn't be on shows.


yeah, as soon as people bring up Marko, Kiss or Janela i know they don’t really watch


----------



## La Parka

LifeInCattleClass said:


> there are thousands - you don’t see them - they are on their knees
> 
> in other news, i’m shocked marko is still brought up / when last was he even on dynamite / rampage?
> 
> rumour is, he’s also moved to the ‘per appearance’ tier
> 
> edit> 3rd of march - long time ago


I seen em when Adam Cole was there. I remember because he was almost the same height.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

La Parka said:


> I seen em when Adam Cole was there. I remember because he was almost the same height.


you can’t miss people dressing like adam cole - they all have to wear a mask that is too big for their body, and physically make their arms too short


----------



## 3venflow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yeah, as soon as people bring up Marko, Kiss or Janela i know they don’t really watch


Kiss and Janela had a shockingly decent match on Dark Elevation though. People would've complained had they run it on Rampage, but it was good enough for TV. Kiss seems to have improved but I doubt he'll ever be consistently good enough for the in-ring level AEW has gotten to.


----------



## OuterCircle

Chip Chipperson said:


> *'The Mrs / The Missus' meaning*
> 
> *One Definition*
> 
> Someone’s wife; can be your own or someon elses wife; Not a derogitory term, simply a way of saying “wife”, “partner”, or “girlfriend”; typically used when the relationship is long term / serious. Definitely not used for one night stands or short term interludes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does "The Mrs / The Missus" mean in Australia? The Outback Dictionary
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> outbackdictionary.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True. You can see the crowd from a clip though but maybe in a cutaway there are a heap of kids dressed up as Darby and Orange...


Don't care, you're still lying faggott. Show a picture of your wife's small tits and then we can talk. Also what do AEW fans eat for breakfast? I'm sure you can tell me that, show me a graph from reddit.


----------



## OuterCircle

La Parka said:


> I seen em when Adam Cole was there. I remember because he was almost the same height.


I know you're still butthurt about Cole leaving WWE but try not spreading unfunny lies. Maybe you should try some jokes from 2006, because your jokes in 2021 are WACK AS FUCK BRO.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Kiss and Janela had a shockingly decent match on Dark Elevation though. People would've complained had they run it on Rampage, but it was good enough for TV. Kiss seems to have improved but I doubt he'll ever be consistently good enough for the in-ring level AEW has gotten to.


yep, I saw that and loved it

people will shoot me, but i think Kiss might join Malakai - he said in an interview Kiss is somebody he would love to work with


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

OuterCircle said:


> I know you're still butthurt about Cole leaving WWE but try not spreading unfunny lies. Maybe you should try some jokes from 2006, because your jokes in 2021 are WACK AS FUCK BRO.


heya chrome - how is life treating you?


----------



## bdon

La Parka said:


> Someone was dressed up as evil uno last week.
> 
> Why won't anyone dress as Marko stunt


People are too old to remember “Honey, I Shrunk the Kids”.


----------



## bdon

OuterCircle said:


> Don't care, you're still lying faggott. Show a picture of your wife's small tits and then we can talk. Also what do AEW fans eat for breakfast? I'm sure you can tell me that, show me a graph from reddit.


@Firefromthegods


----------



## Chip Chipperson

OuterCircle said:


> Don't care, you're still lying faggott. Show a picture of your wife's small tits and then we can talk. Also what do AEW fans eat for breakfast? I'm sure you can tell me that, show me a graph from reddit.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

How does your brain get this broken defending the honour of AEW on a dying forum against like 6 people at best?


----------



## La Parka

OuterCircle said:


> Don't care, you're still lying faggott. Show a picture of your wife's small tits and then we can talk. Also what do AEW fans eat for breakfast? I'm sure you can tell me that, show me a graph from reddit.


Asking to see another members partners tits is certainly an interesting vibe to put out there.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

GNKenny said:


> How does your brain get this broken defending the honour of AEW on a dying forum against like 6 people at best?


He used to be a mod here as well. He blames me for losing his moderator powers but really I had been banned (Unfairly) for at least 3-4 months before he got banned. I believe it was either @Brad Boyd or @La Parka who had their posts edited by him which lead to his removal.

The administrators then looked into everyone he banned and found I did nothing wrong, reinstated me and he's been crazed about me ever since. Wishing me dead is a new one but the homosexual slurs have been tossed around about 6 or 7 times at this point.

He wished La Parka (I think) dead about a month ago as well.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

La Parka said:


> Asking to see another members partners tits is certainly an interesting vibe to put out there.


Yeah especially when he calls me a "******" which is a gay slur.

"SHOW US YA GIRLFRIENDS TITS YA GAY BOY!"


----------



## OuterCircle

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah especially when he calls me a "****" which is a gay slur.
> 
> "SHOW US YA GIRLFRIENDS TITS YA GAY BOY!"


Well you can show me your husband's nipples since that's more up your alley. Also, what do AEW fans eat for breakfast? You're obsessed with them you should know this!!!!!!


----------



## bdon

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah especially when he calls me a "****" which is a gay slur.
> 
> "SHOW US YA GIRLFRIENDS TITS YA GAY BOY!"


Well, let’s get the elephant out the room, bro!

Does she have small tits or not!? Hah


----------



## Chip Chipperson

OuterCircle said:


> Well you can show me your husband's nipples since that's more up your alley.


Why would you wanna see another dudes nipples?


----------



## OuterCircle

Chip Chipperson said:


> Why would you wanna see another dudes nipples?


If you're too busy licking them right now I can always ask later. Also pffttttyyyy........ WWHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBBBBUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR[email protected]@[email protected]!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## DammitChrist

Irish Jet said:


> Anyone who thinks that goofball could draw a dime is out of their mind to begin with. He’s a comedian with one joke. The fact that he gets the pop he does every week says a lot about the people who go to these shows.


Nah, you're wrong considering the fact that I paid to see Orange Cassidy perform live in Miami last month on Dynamite (or Rampage since he wrestled there)


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, you're wrong considering the fact that I paid to see Orange Cassidy perform live in Miami last month on Dynamite (or Rampage since he wrestled there)


Lets be honest though, you'd turn up to AEW whether OC was there or not.


----------



## DammitChrist

Chip Chipperson said:


> Lets be honest though, you'd turn up to AEW whether OC was there or not.


Alright, you got me there.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *Stop. Punk did nothing and wasn't advertised.*


I figured that your "hype" over CM Punk's long-awaited return back in late August was completely fake and fraudulent.

Anyway, MJF and CM Punk deserve big credit for doing well this week with the high quarterly rating


----------



## VGK

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, you're wrong considering the fact that I paid to see Orange Cassidy perform live in Miami last month on Dynamite (or Rampage since he wrestled there)


Oh ok, so you bought a ticket to see Orange Cassidy so clearly he's a draw now lol.


----------



## DammitChrist

VGK said:


> Oh ok, so you bought a ticket to see Orange Cassidy so clearly he's a draw now lol.


I'm glad that we're on the same page here


----------



## One Shed

Wait, so did @Chrome really rejoin and literally wish someone would kill @Chip Chipperson? We still going to pretend this is just a regular feud? Because it seems:

Angry Aussies: We really disagree with current wrestling

@Chrome: We seem to disagree on whether you should be alive or not

Holy shit


----------



## La Parka

OuterCircle said:


> If you're too busy licking them right now I can always ask later. Also pffttttyyyy........ WWHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBBBBUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR[email protected]@[email protected]!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





Two Sheds said:


> Wait, so did @Chrome really rejoin and literally wish someone would kill @Chip Chipperson? We still going to pretend this is just a regular feud? Because it seems:
> 
> Angry Aussies: We really disagree with current wrestling
> 
> @Chrome: We seem to disagree on whether you should be alive or not
> 
> Holy shit







Chrome is absolutely “Danny McGrath”


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Two Sheds said:


> Wait, so did @Chrome really rejoin and literally wish someone would kill @Chip Chipperson? We still going to pretend this is just a regular feud? Because it seems:
> 
> Angry Aussies: We really disagree with current wrestling
> 
> @Chrome: We seem to disagree on whether you should be alive or not
> 
> Holy shit


Chrome just wants attention. He feels left out in the cold because he got banned and instead of saying "Hey, I was a jerk for unfairly banning people and being massively homophobic" he instead wants to constantly blame someone for it.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

How low do we think the viewership dropped this week? Stay above 500k? Below? even below 450k?


----------



## RockGoat82

Two Sheds said:


> Wait, so did @Chrome really rejoin and literally wish someone would kill @Chip Chipperson? We still going to pretend this is just a regular feud? Because it seems:
> 
> Angry Aussies: We really disagree with current wrestling
> 
> @Chrome: We seem to disagree on whether you should be alive or not
> 
> Holy shit


If it makes you feel any better, I hope someone kills you too. 🤠


La Parka said:


> Chrome is absolutely “Danny McGrath”


And you're absolutely a huge faggott. 🤠


Chip Chipperson said:


> Chrome just wants attention. He feels left out in the cold because he got banned and instead of saying "Hey, I was a jerk for unfairly banning people and being massively homophobic" he instead wants to constantly blame someone for it.


Says the guy who couldn't accept his ban like a man. You realize private sites like this don't owe you shit right? You cry like posting here is some human rights act or something lmao. Pathetic.


PhenomenalOne11 said:


> How low do we think the viewership dropped this week? Stay above 500k? Below? even below 450k?


I hope a gorilla fingers you in the ass clown.


----------



## CM Buck

RockGoat82 said:


> If it makes you feel any better, I hope someone kills you too. 🤠
> 
> And you're absolutely a huge faggott. 🤠
> 
> Says the guy who couldn't accept his ban like a man. You realize private sites like this don't owe you shit right? You cry like posting here is some human rights act or something lmao. Pathetic.
> 
> I hope a gorilla fingers you in the ass clown.


So by your logic you should take your own advice? Accept your ban and join wrestling clique or smarks or something.


----------



## .christopher.

Firefromthegods said:


> So by your logic you should take your own advice? Accept your ban and join wrestling clique or smarks or something.


You're talking to a brick wall, mate. A brick wall that people have pissed on during a night out.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

RockGoat82 said:


> If it makes you feel any better, I hope someone kills you too. 🤠
> 
> And you're absolutely a huge faggott. 🤠
> 
> Says the guy who couldn't accept his ban like a man. You realize private sites like this don't owe you shit right? You cry like posting here is some human rights act or something lmao. Pathetic.
> 
> I hope a gorilla fingers you in the ass clown.


Why you care so much about my ass being fingered? You trying to tell me that you wanna be the one to do it?


----------



## CM Buck

Created a poll in rants talk about Chrome there. Let's get back to the numbers


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

3venflow said:


> Two months since he wrestled for AEW. I think he appeared to help Christian/Jurassics one time after that, but he hasn't been seen lately.
> 
> Last time he wrestled on Dynamite was March at St. Patrick's Day Slam.
> 
> On the topic, Sonny Kiss hasn't wrestled on Dynamite since losing to Kenny in October 2020, but a lot of people still bring up names like this as guys who shouldn't be on shows.


Been that long huh? Wow. Shame since I kinda liked Sonny and Joey.


----------



## VGK

DammitChrist said:


> I'm glad that we're on the same page here


Sure lol.


----------



## Soul Rex

Adam Page has charisma, make he ran on all those goddam vanilla midgets and build him strong, ratings can go up.


----------



## thorn123

I am liking Billy Gunn more now, than back in the day. Surely he bumped Rampage's ratings?


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage*

Viewership: 556,000
18-49: 0.22

#17 on cable and up on last week in both categories (515k -> 556k, 0.20 -> 0.22).


----------



## Not Lying

3venflow said:


> *AEW Rampage*
> 
> Viewership: 556,000
> 18-49: 0.22
> 
> #17 on cable and up on last week in both categories (515k -> 556k, 0.20 -> 0.22).


lol it's really obvious by now that when numbers are bad they're leaked, and when they're alright/good they don't get leaked.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> *AEW Rampage*
> 
> Viewership: 556,000
> 18-49: 0.22
> 
> #17 on cable and up on last week in both categories (515k -> 556k, 0.20 -> 0.22).


eh, that’s ok isn’t it?

if its up, its up

still didn’t enjoy the gunn match :\


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> eh, that’s ok isn’t it?
> 
> if its up, its up
> 
> still didn’t enjoy the gunn match :\


*Billy "kicks out before one" Gunn brought the ratings!*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Billy "kicks out before one" Gunn brought the ratings!*


he did my boy darby wrong


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> he did my boy darby wrong


*This guy knew a day in advance:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1461495335604346880*


----------



## yeahright2

So.. 556K for Rampage. Not bad, within their normal 5-600K
AEW Ratings prediction game

Personally I think the TBS (Hos) title tournament is a waste on a one hour show, especially if the talent aren´t better than those two. But that´s just me.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1462925319267094531

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

Very few Rampage main events have seen a rise in ratings due to it getting late in the night. I believe possibly OC vs. Evans and a Britt match did, but none others I can think of. So that UE reunion got a bit of interest for a match that started at a quarter to midnight.


----------



## thorn123

DaveRA said:


> I am liking Billy Gunn more now, than back in the day. Surely he bumped Rampage's ratings?


he's beaten Albert and Tajiri ... ratings winner


----------



## Curryfor3

The Definition of Technician said:


> lol it's really obvious by now that when numbers are bad they're leaked, and when they're alright/good they don't get leaked.


I've noticed this too not gonna lie.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

@LifeInCattleClass *I told you Mr. ASS is RATINGS*!


----------



## CM Buck

Irish Jet said:


> Anyone who thinks that goofball could draw a dime is out of their mind to begin with. He’s a comedian with one joke. The fact that he gets the pop he does every week says a lot about the people who go to these shows.


Says alot about you too that you look down on wrestling fans.


----------



## Irish Jet

Firefromthegods said:


> Says alot about you too that you look down on wrestling fans.


I don’t. I look down on Orange Cassidy fans. He is not a wrestler. A sports entertainer if there ever was one.


----------



## CM Buck

Irish Jet said:


> I don’t. I look down on Orange Cassidy fans. He is not a wrestler. A sports entertainer if there ever was one.


Still different strokes for different folks. Fans are only outright wrong if they are fans of Ed Leslie or Luther


----------



## One Shed

Irish Jet said:


> I don’t. I look down on Orange Cassidy fans. He is not a wrestler. A sports entertainer if there ever was one.





Firefromthegods said:


> Still different strokes for different folks. Fans are only outright wrong if they are fans of Ed Leslie or Luther


I keep saying that it is hilarious how many people on here hate on WWE but praise the Dork Order and Trashitty. Both of those things are Vincisms that he would have farted out on a slow day.

Trashitty is basically a far less talented Santino. It makes no sense when someone says something like "WWE is so awful and sports entertainment lol. Now give me Orange Cassidy and the Dark Order, pal!" The New Day flipping pancakes and the Dork Order jacking each other off eating Chili's are the same damn thing and it all comes from Vince's vision of what wrestling should be. That part of AEW is not an alternative to WWE, it is just alternative WWE.


----------



## Irish Jet

Firefromthegods said:


> Still different strokes for different folks. Fans are only outright wrong if they are fans of Ed Leslie or Luther


I mean people may like seeing a senile old man searching for his stolen egg to promote a movie. AEW fans are quite happy to shit all over that. Understandably.

How Cassidy's "comedy" appealed to anyone in the first place I don't know but I can accept that maybe there's something there I'm missing. But it's just the same bit time and time and time again. Like are the crowd really that easy to please? If he mixed it up a bit or got some new material it would be one thing but it's just the same predictable garbage.

I am 100% convinced that if the same routine was being done under Vince that AEW fans would be mocking it relentlessly as another example of his garbage humour.


----------



## DammitChrist

Two Sheds said:


> I keep saying that it is hilarious how many people on here hate on WWE but praise the *Dork Order and Trashitty*. Both of those things are Vincisms that he would have farted out on a slow day.
> 
> Trashitty is basically a far less talented Santino. It makes no sense when someone says something like "WWE is so awful and sports entertainment lol. Now give me Orange Cassidy and the Dark Order, pal!" The New Day flipping pancakes and the Dork Order jacking each other off eating Chili's are the same damn thing and it all comes from Vince's vision of what wrestling should be. That part of AEW is not an alternative to WWE, it is just alternative WWE.


Hey, sorry, man. I know that we generally get along, but we still don't know who you're referring to here since neither of those names exist


----------



## One Shed

DammitChrist said:


> Hey, sorry, msn. I know that we generally get along, but we still don't know who you're referring to here since neither of those names exist


OK, continue to be the only person in the history of reality that does not understand how nicknames work I guess?


----------



## CM Buck

DammitChrist said:


> Hey, sorry, msn. I know that we generally get along, but we still don't know who you're referring to here since neither of those names exist


You're really beginning to run the oblivious to nicknames joke into the ground Haha


----------



## .christopher.

I'm with @DammitChrist here. Those people do not exist to me either. Under any name as it happens.


----------



## thorn123

Firefromthegods said:


> Still different strokes for different folks. Fans are only outright wrong if they are fans of Ed Leslie or Luther


i bet you would pay big $ for my original brutus doll.


----------



## thorn123

There are AEW fans who don't like OC and DO. Ya'll know that right.


----------



## CM Buck

DaveRA said:


> i bet you would pay big $ for my original brutus doll.


Everyone's dignity has a price in a capitalist world


----------



## La Parka

DaveRA said:


> There are AEW fans who don't like OC and DO. Ya'll know that right.


Of course.

I consider myself and many other “haters”, fans of AEW. Anyone who regularly watches is a fan of the product to some degree.


----------



## 3venflow

Bit of a factoid from last week's Dynamite:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1462753668747317262


----------



## DammitChrist

3venflow said:


> Bit of a factoid from last week's Dynamite:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1462753668747317262


That must be a typo then since that number was clearly meant to represent Nyla Rose vs Hikaru Shida.


----------



## 3venflow

They have sold just under 5,900 tickets for next week's show in Atlanta. Current setup is for 7,557.

The January show back in Newark has sold close to 6,500 already.

They're returning to the location of last night's sold out show in February. Chicago is a red hot ticket for AEW so it makes sense to keep going back there, especially with Punk in town.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> They have sold just under 5,900 tickets for next week's show in Atlanta. Current setup is for 7,557.
> 
> The January show back in Newark has sold close to 6,500 already.


Atlanta better get their act together is alls i’m saying


----------



## bdon

Is the Battle of the Belts episode going to really only be a one hour show?


----------



## DammitChrist

When is the next time that they go to Miami btw?


----------



## 3venflow

DammitChrist said:


> When is the next time that they go to Miami btw?


Nothing announced yet for Miami. Closest is Jacksonville for New Year's Smash.



bdon said:


> Is the Battle of the Belts episode going to really only be a one hour show?


TK said before Full Gear it'll most likely only be an hour, but I don't think that's confirmed yet. Rampage shows it's hard to do more than one long match on an hour show.

A bit disappointing and they can't even tape Rampage after it, since it's between two Dynamite/Rampage joint shows. My guess is TK will stack a Dark/Elevation card before it.

BTW if anyone wants a presale code for Battle of the Belts at Ticketmaster: AEWBELTS


----------



## 3venflow

No ratings until Monday due to Thanksgiving.


----------



## La Parka

when the hell are they coming to toronto.

that crowd will be hella hot. could probably even go to the Scotiabank arena.


----------



## One Shed

La Parka said:


> when the hell are they coming to toronto.
> 
> that crowd will be hella hot. could probably even go to the Scotiabank arena.


The first Canada crowd will definitely be hot. I hope they find a way to debut Steen in Montreal and, you know, NOT spoil it. Him or Sammy showing up as an actual surprise would be awesome.


----------



## Erik.

La Parka said:


> when the hell are they coming to toronto.
> 
> that crowd will be hella hot. could probably even go to the Scotiabank arena.


Owen Hart Cup Final in Canada would be fitting.


----------



## DammitChrist

Hell, they could even have Kenny Omega return in Canada too!!


----------



## Garty

DammitChrist said:


> Hell, they could even have Kenny Omega return in Canada too!!


Who gets the bigger pop in Winnipeg though? Jericho or Omega?


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

3venflow said:


> Bit of a factoid from last week's Dynamite:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1462753668747317262


Well what do you know? A hot promo between two guys who are great on the mic did a good rating. Who'd have thunk it?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Well what do you know? A hot promo between two guys who are great on the mic did a good rating. Who'd have thunk it?


they really should open up ‘extreme debate team championships’ for you lads 

will draw the best ratingz evah!


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

LifeInCattleClass said:


> they really should open up ‘extreme debate team championships’ for you lads
> 
> will draw the best ratingz evah!


Would take that over ever having to see an Orange Cassidy match again.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Would take that over ever having to see an Orange Cassidy match again.


i gotchu fam

gotz dem hot debates rite he fo you


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

3venflow said:


> No ratings until Monday due to Thanksgiving.


Weirdly enough most reputable outlets have been reporting last night's TV ratings for non wrestling shows today.


----------



## 3venflow

MonkasaurusRex said:


> Weirdly enough most reputable outlets have been reporting last night's TV ratings for non wrestling shows today.


Network or cable? The rules may be different for network, I'm not sure.


----------



## omaroo

So battle of the belts show is not a quarterly special and just 1 hour long?

Very strange if true


----------



## Erik.

omaroo said:


> So battle of the belts show is not a quarterly special and just 1 hour long?
> 
> Very strange if true


Its one of their four Saturday specials. 









AEW moving to TBS in 2022; four TNT specials, new show announced


This story was updated at 12:30 PM Eastern. In less than a year, the TV home of AEW Dynamite since its inception will change. WarnerMedia announced Wednesday




www.f4wonline.com





Which were announced months ago. They're not Dynamite events. 

I'm sure we'll still see 2 hour Dynamite specials like Winter is Coming.


----------



## omaroo

But those Saturday specials if they are making them big deal should be surely 2 hours.

1 hour doesn't seem long enough and will feel rushed.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

3venflow said:


> Network or cable? The rules may be different for network, I'm not sure.


On TVLine I saw network reports about CBS and NBC.


----------



## Erik.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1463996527966232577
Even more reason to get themselves over to Canada.


----------



## 3venflow

Meltzer: Revolution 2022 is rumoured to be on the 6th of March at the Amway Arena in Orlando, Florida

They wouldn't be able to run a Rampage on the Friday there as there's a rock concert on that date.


----------



## 3venflow

Fast nationals:

Viewership: 809k
18-49: 344K

Finals will be higher though by how much I'm not sure. I predicted 819k in the ratings thread, since their Thanksgiving shows always see a drop. These ratings appear up on 2019 and 2020 though.


----------



## Erik.

3venflow said:


> Fast nationals:
> 
> Viewership: 809k
> 18-49: 344K
> 
> Finals will be higher though by how much I'm not sure. I predicted 819k in the ratings thread, since their Thanksgiving shows always see a drop. These ratings appear up on 2019 and 2020 though.


Over 100k up on last years thanksgiving episode. With an early West Coast start.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Damn Dave really clutching at straws by talking about the Canadian demo. Must have been a bad number.


----------



## rbl85

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Damn Dave really clutching at straws by talking about the Canadian demo. Must have been a bad number.


No it's just that official numbers are only out monday


----------



## Chip Chipperson

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Damn Dave really clutching at straws by talking about the Canadian demo. Must have been a bad number.


Didn't you know that the key demo in Canada is the only demo that matters?


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Chip Chipperson said:


> Didn't you know that the key demo in Canada is the only demo that matters?


Especially that demo from 18-49 that consists purely of white fatties that the AEW attracts.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

rbl85 said:


> No it's just that official numbers are only out monday


A little bit odd that everything else has their numbers though, Survivor also kept its demo at the same level, AEW better not drop in demo then if every other show stayed the same.


----------



## Kishido

No dynamite ratings?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Especially that demo from 18-49 that consists purely of white fatties that the AEW attracts.


why do people always say this like it means white fatties have no money to spend

i’ll have you know, white fatties are most likely the most affluent and average sub-group in all the world


----------



## Smark1995

This is a very serious question. What does AEW need to do to raise its ratings to RAW and SmackDown level? Invite more celebrities to the show? Stop signing all sorts of indie jobbers and start signing mega stars like Bray Wyatt? Or maybe something else?


----------



## Klitschko

Honestly, it will take time. I don't think they need to do anything different. WWE just has the name recognition because it's been alive for so long, compared to AEW's 2 years. They are doing great for being so young in my opinion.


----------



## 3venflow

Pre-sales (needed a code) for several future AEW shows.


----------



## Erik.

Not much they can do.

Best they can hope for is two things really.


The institutionalised WWE fans realise there is more to wrestling than WWE and an entertaining product out there on Wednesday nights to watch
The younger generation tuning in to AEW instead of WWE

That's probably about it.

They could put out the best product possible that's relatively flawless from a wrestling show's point of view with every single person singing it's praises and ratings probably won't change much. There is simply too many ways to actually watch the product without missing out nowadays.

Didn't catch it live?

Never mind. You can DVR it. Or you can come home and find the episode online that was uploaded within minutes of the show finishing.

Watched it live?

Yeah, but not on cable. Watched it via legal online streaming like FITE. Or you watched it via illegal streaming.

People need to stop worrying about what the ratings are. As long as TNT are happy and AEW are seeing growth across other business models such as merchandise sales, PPV buy rates etc. then there's no need to worry.


----------



## shandcraig

Erik. said:


> Not much they can do.
> 
> Best they can hope for is two things really.
> 
> 
> The institutionalised WWE fans realise there is more to wrestling than WWE and an entertaining product out there on Wednesday nights to watch
> The younger generation tuning in to AEW instead of WWE
> 
> That's probably about it.
> 
> They could put out the best product possible that's relatively flawless from a wrestling show's point of view with every single person singing it's praises and ratings probably won't change much. There is simply too many ways to actually watch the product without missing out nowadays.
> 
> Didn't catch it live?
> 
> Never mind. You can DVR it. Or you can come home and find the episode online that was uploaded within minutes of the show finishing.
> 
> Watched it live?
> 
> Yeah, but not on cable. Watched it via legal online streaming like FITE. Or you watched it via illegal streaming.
> 
> People need to stop worrying about what the ratings are. As long as TNT are happy and AEW are seeing growth across other business models such as merchandise sales, PPV buy rates etc. then there's no need to worry.



ive never fussed about the ratings and agree people should stop fussing. But that being said even though anything aew does likely wont make the ratings go up, They still have a lot to do to improve the product. People should be thinking about that and not numbers.


----------



## omaroo

3venflow said:


> Pre-sales (needed a code) for several future AEW shows.
> 
> View attachment 112353


Any update on tickets for the shows over next few weeks?


----------



## 3venflow

TV ratings are only going to go further down in the USA, not up, as fewer people watch live TV. You can only swim so hard against the tide.

AEW could potentially match RAW consistently if it struck a network TV deal as network (which Smackdown is on) has far more viewers than cable, which has seen millions upon millions cut the cord. Since Dynamite debuted, 18% of cable subscribers have cut the cord for example. That's 18% fewer potential eyes on the product. But I don't think AEW has much of a chance of getting a network deal.

AEW's key demo ratings are already super strong and will guarantee an improved TV rights deal next time, so there's no urgency to do anything desperate and potentially damaging long-term.

Ultimately they may end up on HBO Max where there isn't a 'rating' per se, I believe streaming shows are measured more by hours watched. HBO Max has around 70 million subscribers.


----------



## 3venflow

omaroo said:


> Any update on tickets for the shows over next few weeks?


Some of these numbers are up to a week old and have probably moved since, but:

December 1 in Atlanta: 5,838/7,557 (77%)

December 8 in Long Island: 8,573/11,641 (74%)

December 15 in Garland: 4,367/5,496 (79%)

December 22 in Greensboro: 4,046/5,238 (77%)


----------



## shandcraig

3venflow said:


> TV ratings are only going to go further down in the USA, not up, as fewer people watch live TV. You can only swim so hard against the tide.
> 
> AEW could potentially match RAW consistently if it struck a network TV deal as network (which Smackdown is on) has far more viewers than cable, which has seen millions upon millions cut the cord. Since Dynamite debuted, 18% of cable subscribers have cut the cord for example. That's 18% fewer potential eyes on the product. But I don't think AEW has much of a chance of getting a network deal.
> 
> AEW's key demo ratings are already super strong and will guarantee an improved TV rights deal next time, so there's no urgency to do anything desperate and potentially damaging long-term.
> 
> Ultimately they may end up on HBO Max where there isn't a 'rating' per se, I believe streaming shows are measured more by hours watched. HBO Max has around 70 million subscribers.



I've said it before but I'm positive if aew is still with Warner that they will be on hbomax for its new deal. Or likely both hbomax and tbs. If 0eoppe have hbo they likely don't have cable like many of us. Streaming platforms still pump out huge money for content and if it attracts or keeps even a million viewers on the platform it would be worth it for them. Million a episode is really not that expensive for budget compared to most good shows. In fact I think it would benefit everyone across the board with that strategy


----------



## Smark1995

Klitschko said:


> Honestly, it will take time. I don't think they need to do anything different. WWE just has the name recognition because it's been alive for so long, compared to AEW's 2 years. They are doing great for being so young in my opinion.


AEW has normal ratings! But its are all just normal. Considering that they have such big stars on their roster as CM Punk, Bryan Danielson, Chris Jericho, John Moxley and Sting they should have 1,300-1,600 every week and not around 800K-1,100. 
And as long as they catering only to hardcore wrestling smarks and do not try to develop their audience, they will never leave the bubble in which they are now.


----------



## thorn123

The rock or and NWO level angle … nothing else


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1464645815608164354

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rbl85

You don't understand that the only reason WWE does 1.6 to 2m viewers is because WWE have been around for decades. If WWE was created today, the show would rarely do above 1m.

If i was Khan my first goal would be to please the more or less million viewers that i have now because the show is already a big success with 1m.

The thing is you might lose more viewers than you're gaining if you try to modifie your show to appeal to peoples who are not currently watching your show

It would be stupid to take that risk knowing that with your current ratings the network will be happy for years and years and maybe decades


----------



## Klitschko

Smark1995 said:


> AEW has normal ratings! But its are all just normal. Considering that they have such big stars on their roster as CM Punk, Bryan Danielson, Chris Jericho, John Moxley and Sting they should have 1,300-1,600 every week and not around 800K-1,100.
> And as long as they catering only to hardcore wrestling smarks and do not try to develop their audience, they will never leave the bubble in which they are now.


That's what makes them unique though. There is a high chance they will crash and burn if they try to cater more towards casual audience like WWE has. They would lose what makes them unique and it just makes them a copy of WWE at that point. For me personally, they are close enough in ratings. It's good to have variety. Sometimes I am in a mood to watch these great matches on Dyanamite, and other times I love the Riegns show on Friday's.


----------



## bdon

Just secured 2nd row tickets to Battle of the Belts in Charlotte! WOOOOOOO!!!!


----------



## Smark1995

bdon said:


> Just secured 2nd row tickets to Battle of the Belts in Charlotte! WOOOOOOO!!!!


Hope Cody beats Sammy for the title!


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Nothing. They have their hardcore fanbase and that's all they really care about. Like Roman said, they have a built in ceiling and floor because the product caters to a niche audience*.


----------



## One Shed

They can do better to present a consistently good product. That can cause growth. Presenting a schizophrenic product like they did for most of 2020 and 2021 resulted in the rollercoaster ratings. Thankfully they have improved mostly due to getting a couple actual stars who know how to do this.


----------



## KingofKings1524

What does it take to get Smark1995 to stop making stupid threads?


----------



## InexorableJourney

Drop Eddie Kingston.

Every since Eddie Kingston has been featured on the show it has been unwatchable, even the audience is now 60% of what it was before he was featured. If ever there was an example of one rotten apple spoiling the barrel it's Eddie Kingston.


----------



## RainmakerV2

400k, sweet jesus


----------



## ajmaf625

First and foremost to be taken seriously it would probably be best to keep the competitions name out of your mouth. Bringing up WWE/WWE superstars will only turn people towards that product to see how they're doing. Everyone always thinks WWE is petty by not brining up where wrestlers used to wrestle before WWE, why would they do that if they're still around (ROH/TNA for example). People will want to check out the other company.


----------



## RapShepard

Provide a TV show more people can enjoy

TELL BETTER STORIES

Not just stories fans that will watch regardless enjoy


----------



## Kishido

What about Dynamite?


----------



## rbl85

Kishido said:


> What about Dynamite?


Have to wait until Monday to have the real rating


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Just secured 2nd row tickets to Battle of the Belts in Charlotte! WOOOOOOO!!!!


niceeee! So jealous!

being their first saturday special i think they are gonna put up a banger

you might even see Hangman v Danielson


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RainmakerV2 said:


> 400k, sweet jesus


its the fast nationals breh, wait until monday for real figures


----------



## TonySirico

AEW is a company that caters to indie wrestling fans. wwe is a company that caters or tries to cater to the mainstream


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

AEW clearly needs more EGG to appeal to the Egghead demo.


----------



## The XL 2

Despite WWE losing more than half their audience in recent years, it isn't good to happen. AEW matches are pointlessly long, formulaic, and lack logic, and over half their roster is comically underdeveloped. Small guys for sure have their place in the business, hell, even some of the more talented ones belong in the main event, but you're not going to draw in lapsed fans with guys like Adam Cole and OC going 20 minutes every week. They're the same size as high school freshmen, its ridiculous. And for the record, I think AEW has the better product than WWE, so I'm not some WWE mark.

At the end of the day, wrestling has lost 10 million fans from 20 years ago and about 2-3 million from just a few years ago. The business is not popular anymore. And I don't want to hear the whole TV is dying and cord cutting nonsense, the NFL has been doing record viewership this year, the Cowboys vs Raiders game was the most watched regular season game since 1990. Wrestling had an established TV viewership and its all been pissed away to the point that people brag about Smackdown hitting 2 million and Dynamite hitting 1 million. Its an embarrassment. Sunday Night Heat used to do better than that.


----------



## phatbob426

They need to have more segments like the one where Pinnacle beat up Darby Allin backstage and to follow-up and build on these segments which then develop into a storyline.

A storyline isn't just "I don't like you." and it also isn't just "let's wrestle over and over again". Great storytelling starts with spots similar to Daniel Garcia and Kingston arguing in catering and then Garcia throwing coffee on Kingston's face last night on Rampage.

They should have built on this by having Homicide or someone not Jericho come out during the beat-down after the match and turned it into a "storyline". Nevertheless, Jericho coming out could be the beginning of a storyline. It's not the storyline that _I_ personally want to see. I'd rather have seen Homocide come out for the save than Jericho. Just anyone but Jericho...

The point is that too many opportunities to have stories are missed by just having matches and too many segments are happening that don't develop into storylines or even tell stories.

There needs to be more storytelling.

What Bryan Danielson is doing right now is a storyline. Every week he's going to kick-in a different member of the Dark Order's head until he gets to Hangman Page. He cuts promos about it every week and he delivers on kicking their heads in. He's doing it as a heel because Page and the Dark Order are babyfaces. This is coherent. It's an actual storyline (meaning it progresses). It makes sense. It's bad guy vs good guy.

I think I've made my point.


----------



## omaroo

They will never reach Smackdown ratings and even raws ratings arent feasible imo.

It's not being negative its just way cable ratings are and not being on a big network like Smackdown.

What they get though despite the West Coast time slot is pretty impressive for a new company.


----------



## Geeee

They need an angle as hot as the nWo was. Don't know what that would be


----------



## LVGout

AEW made their grave when they said casual wrestling fans don't exist. WWE goes to Brooklyn and I see hot chicks in the crowd, diversity, families, people who look like they bathe, groom, and shop for clothes. When I see AEW I see white neckbeards who only shop at pro wrestling tees, no woman, no kids. How you going to grow your audience if you just focusing on your key demo with the least diverse wrestling audience since Smokey Mountain wrestling.


----------



## The XL 2

Rampage was dead on arrival honestly. Its worse than Thunder was.


----------



## deadcool

Klitschko said:


> Honestly, it will take time. I don't think they need to do anything different. WWE just has the name recognition because it's been alive for so long, compared to AEW's 2 years. They are doing great for being so young in my opinion.


This. They are on the right path, and they will eventually beat the WWE in the ratings. They are doing a great job building their talent especially young talent.


----------



## 3venflow

Geeee said:


> They need an angle as hot as the nWo was. Don't know what that would be


I'd ask the question of any disgruntled fan: What original angle can be done today that hasn't already happened? It's a very difficult question to answer because almost _everything_ has been done in pro wrestling. Stability and a fixed philosophy is not a bad thing, even if it doesn't offer any industry shaking changes. It ensures the company is sustainable, has its juicy TV deal, good crowds, and is here for the long haul.

I can think of different directions in writing that are quite novel (and don't come without risk), but actual storylines that haven't been done? It's not easy.

I have one idea for AEW that could potentially shake things up, but I doubt it could be pulled off in this day and age.

Cody is legitimately fired and some guys leave in protest. Cody and those guys tear into Tony Khan on podcasts and media, and AEW's reputation takes a big short-term hit. You hear about problems finally arising backstage. TK does some damage control and you have all the E drones and what not online celebrating AEW's imminent demise.

Months later, Cody and his crew invade Dynamite out of nowhere, more Nexus style than nWo to give it a feeling of reality. The whole thing has been the most elaborately produced work in pro wrestling history simply because it's near impossible to keep secrets nowadays. Tony Khan is vindicated when it turns out Cody and his crew were in fact the troublemakers and they're back to fuck up AEW once and for all. And they have sleeper agents already in AEW who turn against the company. It has to be a genuine super-faction though. It's basically the nWo, yeah, but feels based in reality, not contracts conveniently expiring. I don't think they could pull it off unless everyone signs strict NDAs, but it could generate some interest.

Other than that, I think they could work their faction warfare a bit better. Intertwine them like WWF did during the Gang Warz era so it's not 'IC vs. Pinnacle', it's 'IC vs. Elite vs. Pinnacle vs. Death Triangle vs. Team Taz vs. the rest' where there's no fixed feud, but it's gangs who legitimately hate each other and turn AEW into a war zone where crazy shit is going down all over the place. Early IC vs. Pinnacle had that feel and was great. I think that started to move into the more tedious territory after Jericho and the IC came out in their truck and sprayed the Pinnacle with bubbly.


----------



## Casual Fan #52

Smark1995 said:


> This is a very serious question. What does AEW need to do to raise its ratings to RAW and SmackDown level? Invite more celebrities to the show? Stop signing all sorts of indie jobbers and start signing mega stars like Bray Wyatt? Or maybe something else?


The most important thing it needs to do is survive.

It has most of what it needs in place, but it will take a lot of time for it to become better known and to build reputation and recognition. WWE has many decades of head start.



Klitschko said:


> Honestly, it will take time. I don't think they need to do anything different. WWE just has the name recognition because it's been alive for so long, compared to AEW's 2 years. They are doing great for being so young in my opinion.


Or I could have just not jumped into post and noticed this smart person wrote it before me


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> niceeee! So jealous!
> 
> being their first saturday special i think they are gonna put up a banger
> 
> you might even see Hangman v Danielson


Actually, I had to order 3rd row, but the seats are much closer. The 2nd row seats were Section G by the ramp but on the other end of the aisle. So, 12-15’ from the railing. A friend messaged me asking if I was going, because he wanted to get tickets with us.

So, we ordered the 3rd row, opposite corner, but literally 3 seats from the rail. So fucking stoked. This will be the wife’s 3rd AEW show, my 2nd. Not bad for someone who literally never watched wrestling until 25 months ago. Hah


----------



## Unorthodox

Get rid of pockets, Hardy and other stupid idiots of that nature.


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> its the fast nationals breh, wait until monday for real figures


 Tuesday for Rampage


----------



## Randy Lahey

Nothing.


KingofKings1524 said:


> What does it take to get Smark1995 to stop making stupid threads?


The ban hammer. There should be a rule that one person can’t make more than 2 threads per week


----------



## DaSlacker

LVGout said:


> AEW made their grave when they said casual wrestling fans don't exist. WWE goes to Brooklyn and I see hot chicks in the crowd, diversity, families, people who look like they bathe, groom, and shop for clothes. When I see AEW I see white neckbeards who only shop at pro wrestling tees, no woman, no kids. How you going to grow your audience if you just focusing on your key demo with the least diverse wrestling audience since Smokey Mountain wrestling.



So basically what's needed is


Tony Khan to cut an incoherent promo about an egg to two monotone authority figures
The roster to run around like idiots looking for said egg
An Irish girl with red hair cutting faux tough girl promos
A Scottish guy randomly waving a sword
A guy cutting bad jokes to a pimp dressed idiot who is in fake hysterics
a battle royal where pizza is the theme
The cousin of a movie star to embark on an endless title reign
Some really slow matches that last forever as the wrestlers work through their moveset in the same order as last time.

+
A really bright set and a long long time between matches, whilst the same video promos are shown on the big screen


Damn, mainstream sucks.


----------



## thorwold

Be on Network TV. 

I think it is important to remember how long WWE has been around, and that the Raw numbers are coming down basically year over year (2020 being sort of an anomaly) the only way to get up to those numbers is probably to have been higher in the first place  It will take them years to build up to that level on any kind of consistent basis. When they were at their very peak and Raw at its very bottom (and neither of those numbers was consistent) they were still hundreds of thousands apart.


----------



## La Parka

It might be too late.

AEW has been on for years now and have done everything to tell casuals if you aren't hardcore, they don't really want you. 

It's a niche wrestling company that is pretty happy staying that way. Which is fine but Its kind of sad that the fans and even some of the talent have to lie to themselves and say casuals aren't out there.


----------



## Chan Hung

Stay consistent, promote promote and promote..


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal

I never understood why y'all talk shit about a show y'all hate so much every week then repeat the same cycle. Every. Damn. Week. Maybe y'all want some attention?


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal

La Parka said:


> It might be too late.
> 
> AEW has been on for years now and have done everything to tell casuals if you aren't hardcore, they don't really want you.
> 
> It's a niche wrestling company that is pretty happy staying that way. Which is fine but Its kind of sad that the fans and even some of the talent have to lie to themselves and say casuals aren't out there.


You're wrong. It's been on for two years.


----------



## ShadowCounter

TonySirico said:


> AEW is a company that caters to indie wrestling fans. wwe is a company that caters or tries to cater to the mainstream 4 year olds with short term memory loss.


Fixed that for you.


----------



## ShadowCounter

deadcool said:


> This. They are on the right path, and they will eventually beat the WWE in the ratings. They are doing a great job building their talent especially young talent.


Yep. It's just a matter of time. AEW's fan base is younger and most likely to stick around for decades. WWE's fan base is much older and only gonna keep dying off. Doubt me? Then why was NXT turned into a sad old man's idea of what "the youngsters" like complete with a Nickelodeon paint job?


----------



## WrestleFAQ

They've got to find their must-see storyline and create an unpredictable product.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

They won't ever get to WWE's level in terms of ratings. I can't see AEW ever doing higher than 1.5 million. Ever. The only way they'll beat RAW or SmackDown in the ratings is when RAW and SD drop their ratings to AEWs level. Which will happen over the next few years. AEW and WWE will be lucky to be getting over 800k in a few years and before you know it they'll be battling to get 500k. 

Wrestling ain't ever going to be this juggernaut again.


----------



## Crasp

Somehow get onto network TV lol. Hard to see a situation where they would leave TNT/TBS though.


----------



## validreasoning

DaSlacker said:


> So basically what's needed is
> 
> 
> Tony Khan to cut an incoherent promo about an egg to two monotone authority figures
> The roster to run around like idiots looking for said egg
> An Irish girl with red hair cutting faux tough girl promos
> A Scottish guy randomly waving a sword
> A guy cutting bad jokes to a pimp dressed idiot who is in fake hysterics
> a battle royal where pizza is the theme
> The cousin of a movie star to embark on an endless title reign
> Some really slow matches that last forever as the wrestlers work through their moveset in the same order as last time.
> 
> +
> A really bright set and a long long time between matches, whilst the same video promos are shown on the big screen
> 
> 
> Damn, mainstream sucks.


I could just say the attitude era was


Stunning Steve Austin and commentator Vince McMahon feuding
a failed CFL player talking in third person
Cactus Jack as a comedy guy with sock puppet

Difference between WWE and AEW (and TNA before that) is that they present their top talent as 'stars'. I don't like Mcintyre or Lashley but nobody can deny WWE presents them as larger than life. In AEW and TNA (2007-14) everyone feels like an upper midcard that are interchangeable. 

That Irish girl became one of the biggest female athletes on earth name value wise in 2018-19 while Rocks cousin is biggest star on planet right now and getting hand picked to late night talk shows and ESPY to appear. 



thorwold said:


> Be on Network TV.
> 
> I think it is important to remember how long WWE has been around, and that the Raw numbers are coming down basically year over year (2020 being sort of an anomaly) the only way to get up to those numbers is probably to have been higher in the first place  It will take them years to build up to that level on any kind of consistent basis. When they were at their very peak and Raw at its very bottom (and neither of those numbers was consistent) they were still hundreds of thousands apart.


Be on network TV lol. I am still amazed AEW got a contract on the biggest cable channel in the US 

Look if age of company was reason for success then TNA should be killing it right now, I mean 20 years in a few months since they started...


ShadowCounter said:


> Yep. It's just a matter of time. AEW's fan base is younger and most likely to stick around for decades. WWE's fan base is much older and only gonna keep dying off. Doubt me? Then why was NXT turned into a sad old man's idea of what "the youngsters" like complete with a Nickelodeon paint job?


SD had more than three times the 18-49 viewer's of Rampage last night.

Might be waiting a while there for audience to die lol


----------



## DZ Crew

Even in a best case scenario this would take years. Wrestling is a dying industry and the last few major companies left are fighting over the last 2-3 million people who still watch it regularly. In order to be more successful they'd be wise to expand their worldwide presence once things calm down with the pandemic. In addition they should focus more on building people that would appeal to hardcore and casual fans. The main reason why they're having difficulty building their brand and audience is because they spend too much time catering to the niche hardcore smarks who don't make up more than about 1 million people.


----------



## ShadowCounter

validreasoning said:


> SD had more than three times the 18-49 viewer's of Rampage last night.
> 
> Might be waiting a while there for audience to die lol



A) SD is on network tv. It's free. AEW and RAW are on pay tv.
B) SD's viewing audience potential is 128-148 million homes depending on which number you believe. RAW and Dynamite's is 90 million.

With cord cutting SD might be untouchable for a while but RAW and NXT are fucked. They keep losing viewers year over year while AEW's numbers are on the rise.


----------



## GreatJIm

WWE is like star wars. While AEW is like Spaceballs. Everyone knows it make believe. But one takes itself somewhat seriously. The other makes a parody of it.


----------



## Seth Grimes

Just keep existing


----------



## Pure_Dynamite12

be good


----------



## Chan Hung

DaSlacker said:


> So basically what's needed is
> 
> 
> Tony Khan to cut an incoherent promo about an egg to two monotone authority figures
> The roster to run around like idiots looking for said egg
> An Irish girl with red hair cutting faux tough girl promos
> A Scottish guy randomly waving a sword
> A guy cutting bad jokes to a pimp dressed idiot who is in fake hysterics
> a battle royal where pizza is the theme
> The cousin of a movie star to embark on an endless title reign
> Some really slow matches that last forever as the wrestlers work through their moveset in the same order as last time.
> 
> +
> A really bright set and a long long time between matches, whilst the same video promos are shown on the big screen
> 
> 
> Damn, mainstream sucks.


careful now, you are almost suggesting a show as bad as you write, gets far bigger ratings and is more over with a national audience than AEW  lol


----------



## Upstart474

Steal more talent from WWE. Most of AEW where at one time WWE wrestlers or tryouts.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *Nothing. They have their hardcore fanbase and that's all they really care about. Like Roman said, they have a built in ceiling and floor because the product caters to a niche audience*.


Except that your guy is hilariously wrong considering the fact that the AEW fanbase is slowly growing, and it'll continue to increase as long as they keep catering to their passionate audience. 

Quit using your obnoxious favorite as a "credible" reference since he's just some clown being in character.


----------



## Seth Grimes

DammitChrist said:


> Except that your guy is hilariously wrong considering the fact that the AEW fanbase is slowly growing, and it'll continue to increase as long as they keep catering to their passionate audience.
> 
> Quit using your obnoxious favorite as a "credible" reference since he's just some clown being in character.


Growing? Isn't it struggling to get above 1m? And Rampage can't even get more than 500k? lmao the debut show will never be beaten at this rate. which means everyone tuned in and said "yeah, fuck that".


----------



## Curryfor3

Cut a deal with Fox once the deal with WWE expires.


----------



## SuperstarSlyme

TNA had 20 years and blew they chance... not saying just wait 20 years and they are gonna automatically be over WWE... just saying they are on year 3 and already past where TNA was in year 3 (2005) and where WCW was at year 3 (1992)


----------



## SuperstarSlyme

Seth Grimes said:


> Growing? Isn't it struggling to get above 1m? And Rampage can't even get more than 500k? lmao the debut show will never be beaten at this rate. which means everyone tuned in and said "yeah, fuck that".


one of the people who watched during the debut and only actually watch live during the big moments (Punk debut, Winter is Coming) i mainly catch 95% of the product online on my own time.. not saying some people didnt just say fuck it but shit just not black and white like that in 2021


----------



## Upstart474

SuperstarSlyme said:


> TNA had 20 years and blew they chance... not saying just wait 20 years and they are gonna automatically be over WWE... just saying they are on year 3 and already past where TNA was in year 3 (2005) and where WCW was at year 3 (1992)


TNA did not have the billions to afford to get superstars talent hord" like WCW or AEW does. WWE beat at WCW at his best, AEW can't beat WWE at its worst. All AEW does is talent hord from WWE.


----------



## SuperstarSlyme

Upstart474 said:


> TNA did not have the billions to afford to get superstars talent hord" like WCW or AEW does. WWE beat at WCW at his best, AEW can't beat WWE at its worst. All AEW does is talent hord from WWE.


and all my point is that it takes longer than 3 years just to compete even with all the resources in the world.U guys are expecting AEW to beat WWE right off the bat and it makes no sense


----------



## Fergal

I think the real question should be : How much worse WWE will have to get AEW level of ratings and sadly they are getting close


DammitChrist said:


> Except that your guy is hilariously wrong considering the fact that the AEW fanbase is slowly growing, and it'll continue to increase as long as they keep catering to their passionate audience.
> 
> Quit using your obnoxious favorite as a "credible" reference since he's just some clown being in character.


Aew fanbase ain't growing bud they have yet to reach the ratings they did for their initial show and they are loosing viewers ever since


----------



## ripcitydisciple

I am going to get a lot of heat for this because some E drone is going to misinterpret what I said and add in there own assumptions or interpretations of 'what I really mean' but it is the truth;

The only way AEW will ever reach Raw and Smackdown numbers is the 50 + demo for WWE, the institutionalized who put the Attitude Era on a pedestal need to die off. The 50 + is all that is keeping those numbers for the WWE. Once they've all passed on they'll be getting the kind of ratings NXT is currently getting. Raw for sure.


----------



## NathanMayberry

GNKenny said:


> AEW clearly needs more EGG to appeal to the Egghead demo.


Egg is more over than everyone on the AEW roster and I’m not even joking. 

If an egg special event was announced an egg it would draw better than 400k viewers. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse

Its just going to take time.

The WWE only gets the ratings they do because they've been around for so long, and in recent decades their name has been synonymous with Pro Wrestling, they are Pro Wrestling. 

I prefer WWE over AEW ultimately (hardly watch either) but there's nothing that WWE does better than AEW. So its not necessarily something AEW needs to do, its just the fact that people dont really know about them, or care to venture outside that WWE bubble. Which isn't an issue, casual fans dont have to venture outside the WWE bubble. Tune into whatever.


----------



## DaSlacker

Chan Hung said:


> careful now, you are almost suggesting a show as bad as you write, gets far bigger ratings and is more over with a national audience than AEW  lol


What can I say. The WWE brand is a hell of a drug for 500,000 people over the age of 50.


----------



## Lorromire

They NEED to make Marko Stunt The TNT + AEW World Heavyweight Champion


----------



## DaSlacker

validreasoning said:


> I could just say the attitude era was
> 
> 
> Stunning Steve Austin and commentator Vince McMahon feuding
> a failed CFL player talking in third person
> Cactus Jack as a comedy guy with sock puppet
> 
> Difference between WWE and AEW (and TNA before that) is that they present their top talent as 'stars'. I don't like Mcintyre or Lashley but nobody can deny WWE presents them as larger than life. In AEW and TNA (2007-14) everyone feels like an upper midcard that are interchangeable.
> 
> That Irish girl became one of the biggest female athletes on earth name value wise in 2018-19 while Rocks cousin is biggest star on planet right now and getting hand picked to late night talk shows and ESPY to appear


Austin had a new hardman character by that point and McMahon had been outed onscreen as chairman by the end of 1996. Rock transitioned from plucky babyface to gang member to overly confident arrogant, albeit funny, douche. Foley developed too into a troubled guy with three personalities. 

All about context. 1997 - 2000 WWF was very shiny and new so outlandish, silly stuff wasn't particularly obnoxious. Neither was sensationalism writing. Plus they didn't play it all for a quick fix and for laughs back then. It was often subplots in better crafted feuds, entwined narrative and more focused television. Most hasn't stood the test of time but back then it pulled you in. Now under the current platform it just disappoints, annoys and generally wastes your time. It does me, anyway. 

WWE has always been about marketing its top names as cartoonish type creations or one dimensional Superstars ™. Everything from music to logo to body to attire to their feuds was carefully constructed. Thesedays that includes promos too. WCW, TNA and now AEW were/are less bothered and more chaotic. Personally I feel the WWE way is old hat in 2021. It just feeds the brand as opposed to making the talent seem cool. Moxley, Hangman, Darby, Punk, Miro, Danielson, MJF, Rhodes and Baker are to me hotter, more interesting acts than anything outside of Reigns. And more or less on an equal footing to each other. I'd take a rich roster of charismatic wrestlers with a strong win/loss record over being spoon fed a new GI Joe/He Man. 

Becky had a fantastic run 3 years ago but she's cooled off a lot now. Generally through a heel turn nobody asked for. 

Roman is simply the most protected and by far the most pushed character in the promotion with the biggest reach. An avatar of a global brand. Lex Luger and Yokozuna did the talk show rounds in 1993, Razor Ramon was on Jerry Springer, Bigelow was in a couple of movies, Vader was on Boy Meets World, HBK was on Baywatch, Bret Hart was picked for The Simpsons in its heyday.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Management change with Tony putting in place a booker who does believe the casual fan exists and tries to cater to them. There's about a million smarks out there, that's AEW's audience.




Erik. said:


> People need to stop worrying about what the ratings are. As long as TNT are happy and AEW are seeing growth across other business models such as merchandise sales, PPV buy rates etc. then there's no need to worry.


I see you in the ratings thread regularly but now that AEW's ratings have dropped a little bit suddenly its "People need to stop worrying about the ratings" lol.



Nickademus_Eternal said:


> I never understood why y'all talk shit about a show y'all hate so much every week then repeat the same cycle. Every. Damn. Week. Maybe y'all want some attention?


Says the fella who says the above every single week sometimes many times.



ShadowCounter said:


> They keep losing viewers year over year while AEW's numbers are on the rise.


November 25th, 2020 - 712,000

November 24th, 2021 - 809,000

That's some growth.



SuperstarSlyme said:


> TNA had 20 years and blew they chance... not saying just wait 20 years and they are gonna automatically be over WWE... just saying they are on year 3 and already past where TNA was in year 3 (2005) and where WCW was at year 3 (1992)


In what way? TNA and WCW both had bigger television audiences.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

LifeInCattleClass said:


> why do people always say this like it means white fatties have no money to spend
> 
> i’ll have you know, white fatties are most likely the most affluent and average sub-group in all the world


White fatties that like wrestling don't have that much money according to the Reddit census.


----------



## JBLGOAT

It's pretty clear the wrestling fan wants to see money on the screen. Buy stars or production value. That seems to more important to fans than good product or good wrestling.


----------



## DaSlacker

Not about white fatties. It can be about the proportions when it comes to partnerships, brand building and tie in's. If WWE is getting 50% of live viewers under 50 and AEW is getting 60% under 50. Then on paper the latter looks like the more 'hip' product with the better long term potential.


----------



## DammitChrist

ShadowCounter said:


> Yep. It's just a matter of time. AEW's fan base is younger and most likely to stick around for decades. WWE's fan base is much older and only gonna keep dying off. Doubt me? Then why was NXT turned into a sad old man's idea of what "the youngsters" like complete with a Nickelodeon paint job?


Man, I'm genuinely curious to know what the ratings for NXT 2.0 will be like 5 years from now; especially when they'll no longer have the likes of Tommaso Ciampa, Johnny Gargano, Kyle O'Reilly, and Roderick Strong around to carry the match quality by that point.

They'll only have guys like Pete Dunne, Cameron Grimes, and Carmelo Hayes around to appeal toward those who want to see fun wrestling matches. That's ASSUMING that none of them get released or called up too.

The median age is 62 years old apparently, so those low ratings are surely not stable for NXT 2.0 in the long-term.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

rbl85 said:


> You don't understand that the only reason WWE does 1.6 to 2m viewers is because WWE have been around for decades. If WWE was created today, the show would rarely do above 1m.
> 
> If i was Khan my first goal would be to please the more or less million viewers that i have now because the show is already a big success with 1m.
> 
> The thing is you might lose more viewers than you're gaining if you try to modifie your show to appeal to peoples who are not currently watching your show
> 
> It would be stupid to take that risk knowing that with your current ratings the network will be happy for years and years and maybe decades


This it's been around forever nonsense isn't a particularly valid argument. According to a great deal of the geniuses on here WWE has been trash and insulting to its audience for going on two decades now people don't generally continue to support something that they feel insults them. This desire to completely ignore the fact that anybody could possibly enjoy WWE for any reason other than "loyalty" is ridiculous. Generally speaking TV ratings tend to decline as TV shows age. People stop watching as they find things they'd rather watch(for whatever those reasons may be). What WWE's history and longevity does best to help WWE as a company is appeal to TV Networks and Advertisers. 

Do you really think that it's a stupid risk to try and increase their audience or public profile? Why would they be content to just coast along exactly where they are indefinitely? So what if the network will be happy with them where they are at? Imagine how much happier the people at TNT would be if they managed to increase their audience. If Vince McMahon thought like that WWE would never have grown into the business it is now and many of us would have been robbed of some of the most fun we've possibly ever had watching wrestling(whatever "era" if WWF/E you prefer is irrelevant). Same goes for Eric Bischoff and his time running WCW. If you aren't going to swing the bat what the hell are you doing at the plate?


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

LifeInCattleClass said:


> its the fast nationals breh, wait until monday for real figures


Do you think that the number is going to double or something? Fast nationals are a fairly accurate representation of the numbers. It's not going to jump to 650k or 700k.


----------



## NathanMayberry

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1464645815608164354
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Rampage and Rhodes to the top are basically in the cancellation zone right now.

I really thought that with Punk and Bryan they’d change. But nope. I’ll never understand the insistence on putting random nobodies on tv that no one knows or gives a fuck about. 

The roster is great, and they’re gonna add even more great guys soon. but for whatever, reason AEW refuses to be a show about top talent going against top talent. More than 50 percent of the people wrestling on dynamite or rampage aren’t important enough to even be in a PPV. There is literally no need for filler content, it’s a new company with so many unexplored feuds and matches yet so much of AEW is exactly that. 

Things are gonna be very interesting come time for renewal. WWE has been letting everyone deemed not worth it go. People are saying they’re trying to sell. I’m thinking it could be because they’re expecting a reduced TV deal. If that does in fact happen, it would hurt AEWs bargaining power significantly. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Chip Chipperson said:


> White fatties that like wrestling don't have that much money according to the Reddit census.


you really hang your hat on a census of 9k people that was industry wide, huh?

here is a clue - tickets, merch and ppvs aren’t cheap


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

MonkasaurusRex said:


> Do you think that the number is going to double or something? Fast nationals are a fairly accurate representation of the numbers. It's not going to jump to 650k or 700k.


no, but it’ll get to 520k which is their normal Friday number


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

NathanMayberry said:


> Rampage and Rhodes to the top are basically in the cancellation zone right now.
> 
> I really thought that with Punk and Bryan they’d change. But nope. I’ll never understand the insistence on putting random nobodies on tv that no one knows or gives a fuck about.
> 
> The roster is great, and they’re gonna add even more great guys soon. but for whatever, reason AEW refuses to be a show about top talent going against top talent. More than 50 percent of the people wrestling on dynamite or rampage aren’t important enough to even be in a PPV. There is literally no need for filler content, it’s a new company with so many unexplored feuds and matches yet so much of AEW is exactly that.
> 
> Things are gonna be very interesting come time for renewal. WWE has been letting everyone deemed not worth it go. People are saying they’re trying to sell. I’m thinking it could be because they’re expecting a reduced TV deal. If that does in fact happen, it would hurt AEWs bargaining power significantly.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


only wrestling program close to the cancellation zone is nxt 2.0


----------



## SuperstarSlyme

Chip Chipperson said:


> Management change with Tony putting in place a booker who does believe the casual fan exists and tries to cater to them. There's about a million smarks out there, that's AEW's audience.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see you in the ratings thread regularly but now that AEW's ratings have dropped a little bit suddenly its "People need to stop worrying about the ratings" lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Says the fella who says the above every single week sometimes many times.
> 
> 
> 
> November 25th, 2020 - 712,000
> 
> November 24th, 2021 - 809,000
> 
> That's some growth.
> 
> 
> 
> In what way? TNA and WCW both had bigger television audiences.


ur companing those companies in their prime to a company thats not even 3 years old if u compare AEW/TNA/WCW all by their year 3 AEW has accomplished way more in that time than the other two


----------



## SuperstarSlyme

Comparing 2021 AEW (which only exost for 3 years) to 2011 TNA (which had existed for 9 years at that point) or WCW 1998 (which existed for 9 years at that point as well) is just a misleading statement to make and just shows how much AEW has done in a short time.


----------



## SuperstarSlyme

Also ur comparing viewership in 2021 (Bout 3M watchers between both promotions) to 2011 (4.5-5 Million viewerrs between promotions) and 1998 (6.5-7 million viewers between promotions)

people aint watching tv like that no more bud. Not when u have YouTube/Hulu/DailyMotion etc. I fuck with AEW hard but almost always catch it online when i have the time and rarely actually watch it on TNT


----------



## validreasoning

SuperstarSlyme said:


> Also ur comparing viewership in 2021 (Bout 3M watchers between both promotions) to 2011 (4.5-5 Million viewerrs between promotions) and 1998 (6.5-7 million viewers between promotions)
> 
> people aint watching tv like that no more bud. Not when u have YouTube/Hulu/DailyMotion etc. I fuck with AEW hard but almost always catch it online when i have the time and rarely actually watch it on TNT


Yes people aren't watching TV as much anymore for sure but AEW isn't on Hulu and youtube isn't a significant platform for AEW like it is WWE.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1418629567573598210


----------



## SuperstarSlyme

validreasoning said:


> Yes people aren't watching TV as much anymore for sure but AEW isn't on Hulu and youtube isn't a significant platform for AEW like it is WWE.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1418629567573598210


im sayin in terms of other mediums to recieve content its not just whatevers on tv anymore. And i watch off illegal free streaming sites 9/10.


----------



## rbl85

MonkasaurusRex said:


> Do you think that the number is going to double or something? Fast nationals are a fairly accurate representation of the numbers. It's not going to jump to 650k or 700k.


Does not need to do 600k to be good


----------



## thorwold

validreasoning said:


> Be on network TV lol. I am still amazed AEW got a contract on the biggest cable channel in the US
> 
> Look if age of company was reason for success then TNA should be killing it right now, I mean 20 years in a few months since they started...


I didn't say they ever would be on Network TV... I'm saying that's the way they'd get those kinds of numbers...

Is TNA on TNT? What kind of a comparison is that? I didn't say age of the company is the reason for success, but that it will take them years to build their numbers up to be that high. The numbers may just as well go down as up, but neither is happening overnight.


----------



## DammitChrist

NathanMayberry said:


> Rampage and Rhodes to the top are basically in the cancellation zone right now.
> 
> I really thought that with Punk and Bryan they’d change. But nope. I’ll never understand the insistence on putting random nobodies on tv that no one knows or gives a fuck about.
> 
> The roster is great, and they’re gonna add even more great guys soon. but for whatever, reason AEW refuses to be a show about top talent going against top talent. More than 50 percent of the people wrestling on dynamite or rampage aren’t important enough to even be in a PPV. There is literally no need for filler content, it’s a new company with so many unexplored feuds and matches yet so much of AEW is exactly that.
> 
> Things are gonna be very interesting come time for renewal. WWE has been letting everyone deemed not worth it go. People are saying they’re trying to sell. I’m thinking it could be because they’re expecting a reduced TV deal. If that does in fact happen, it would hurt AEWs bargaining power significantly.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Everything that was said in this quote here is laughable.


----------



## RainmakerV2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> no, but it’ll get to 520k which is their normal Friday number



No it wont


----------



## 3venflow

This coming week's Dynamite/Rampage in Georgia has now passed 6,000 tickets sold. With two title matches (both on Rampage oddly enough), Cody vs. Andrade and STING~! in action announced, it's no surprise there has been some movement. Doubt it'll hit a 7,500 sell out but it's going to be another nice gate for the company and could match the Dynamite average since they went back on the road.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RainmakerV2 said:


> No it wont


oh, ok 🤷‍♂️


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

LifeInCattleClass said:


> no, but it’ll get to 520k which is their normal Friday number


That's a 30% increase in viewers over the fast nationals. Why would you think that the number would see that significant a jump? When have the fast nationals for Rampage ever been that far off the actual number?


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

rbl85 said:


> Does not need to do 600k to be good


I never said it did. It was an exaggeration for effect.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

MonkasaurusRex said:


> That's a 30% increase in viewers over the fast nationals. Why would you think that the number would see that significant a jump? When have the fast nationals for Rampage ever been that far off the actual number?


last week it was the same(ish)

what does it matter, we’ll know the real number in 2 days - you can shit on it then?


----------



## RapShepard

Self explanatory 

I'll say higher because they're entertaining, but have some easy to iron out flaws.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*They deserve what they've got right now. That's what happens when you tunnel on one demographic.*


----------



## thorn123

I watched Great Khali Vs Hornswoggle on youtube - 89 million views ....

Maybe AEW should produce tv like that?


----------



## Seth Grimes

It depends if you're using WWE's current, and past, as a bar for them? You'd need to ask yourself if you think wrestling as a whole deserves more, or less, first.


----------



## shandcraig

aew is becoming not must watch tv. Yes its a shitty time slot and i badly think rampage should be on saturdays around 4 where it could lead into ppvs that start at 5 but i also think its just 1 hour of whatever. Tony dony know how to book. He just books for matces and thats his story base. punk as an example and hell even bryan where it feels like the main story around them are proving they can go through the entire roster to make it to this stupid ranked system that does not matter.


----------



## shandcraig

well considering rampage is going down and dyamite is not going up, i would say they are deserving what they are getting and im not surprised one bit if any of it goes down. Its just not a must watch product. Like i said else where, Tony do not know how to book. He books for rankings an all this crap that the masses dont care about. punk and bryan are a good example. Booking them like they are these elite wrestlers that are slowly grinding their way through the roster. Its just not compelling. I get some people are jerking themselves off over matches but that is not sustainable with out many other factors driving it. I assume this will at some point bring tony to hire someone as aew needs direction. I want it to grow and be better but im not going to pretend what is happening.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *They deserve what they've got right now. That's what happens when you tunnel on one demographic.*


Yea, God forbid they decide to appease their own audience.


----------



## shandcraig

DammitChrist said:


> Yea, God forbid they decide to appease their own audience.



are they though ? clearly not appealing in a sustainable way. Clearly most of its fan base never bother to see rampage because its not must see tv. Of course if aew came around my area i would see them in a heart beat but im just saying its tv product is clearly not on fire even for its core fan base that support them. They of course have many great things but clearly much i missing for people


----------



## thorn123

If compared to the Fed (and some other higher rating shows on tv) they produce considerably higher quality programming, so should rate a lot more. Not sayings it's perfect.


----------



## cai1981

You don't "deserve" ratings: you earn them! They have a solid fan base if about 750-800k solid viewers that will tune in no matter what. They got some extra eyeballs when Punk and Danielson came in, however, the extras and the casuals are dwindling away.

If they want more viewers, they will have to start doing things that will get people to not just tune in, but keep coming back for more. 

The Punk/MJF segment, though done at the absolute wrong time and on a show that got low ratings (day before Thanksgiving when people are traveling and/or meal prepping) may get some people to tune in next week because of the "buzz"...BUT, will they deliver or underwhelm and make the casual and potential new viewers not care to return.

If AEW and TNT are satisfied: good for them. Just don't go touting that you are the best when you can't even draw half the ratings of your competition and your B show can't even beat the competition's developmental show that has downgraded significantly from when your A show was beating them by slim margins.


----------



## DammitChrist

shandcraig said:


> are they though ? clearly not appealing in a sustainable way. Clearly most of its fan base never bother to see rampage because its not must see tv. Of course if aew came around my area i would see them in a heart beat but im just saying its tv product is clearly not on fire even for its core fan base that support them. They of course have many great things but clearly much i missing for people


Nah, they're currently delivering the best wrestling show on TV atm, and they should continue what they're doing


----------



## La Parka

Deserve what they get. They appeal to a hardcore fan base for the most part.

Its an average wrestling show with some established names and some good upcoming talent but my god does every week need some jackass that doesn't belong on TV? If its not Chuck Taylor, Its QT Marshall. If its not QT Marshall its Colton Gunn. If its not Colton Gunn its Matt Hardy. The list goes on and on. 

The "comedy" of OC would be much more tolerable if they didn't have 5 other comedy acts on the show and also didn't have their main event guys acting like goofs. 

There's also way too much shit that almost no one knows about. Maybe half the audience knew who Hangman was referring to the other week when he referenced Omegas old tag partner and maybe half of those people actually cared or seen a match featuring Kota Ibushi. 

Theres plenty of good in AEW that could help the ratings in the future

Starks, MJF, Baker, Darby, Hobbs all have a world of potential. Riho, Sammy, Dante and Jungle Boy could also be good hands in the company.

CM Punk and MJF has been incredible. A feud that feels like a big time feud between two of the best on the mic. This is something you want to see every week.

Bryan and Page have been great. Heel Bryan is back and it couldn't of come sooner.


----------



## thorn123

La Parka said:


> Deserve what they get. They appeal to a hardcore fan base for the most part.
> 
> Its an average wrestling show with some established names and some good upcoming talent but my god does every week need some jackass that doesn't belong on TV? If its not Chuck Taylor, Its QT Marshall. If its not QT Marshall its Colton Gunn. If its not Colton Gunn its Matt Hardy. The list goes on and on.
> 
> The "comedy" of OC would be much more tolerable if they didn't have 5 other comedy acts on the show and also didn't have their main event guys acting like goofs.
> 
> There's also way too much shit that almost no one knows about. Maybe half the audience knew who Hangman was referring to the other week when he referenced Omegas old tag partner and maybe half of those people actually cared or seen a match featuring Kota Ibushi.
> 
> Theres plenty of good in AEW that could help the ratings in the future
> 
> Starks, MJF, Baker, Darby, Hobbs all have a world of potential. Riho, Sammy, Dante and Jungle Boy could also be good hands in the company.
> 
> CM Punk and MJF has been incredible. A feud that feels like a big time feud between two of the best on the mic. This is something you want to see every week.
> 
> Bryan and Page have been great. Heel Bryan is back and it couldn't of come sooner.


The problem is they can't appeal to everyone. I agree with you re chuck, QT and Hardy. But I like the Gunn club. I also agree with you re Sammy and jungle boy, but Riho is just too small and Dante just doesnt look legit.

I take the bad with the good. I would give it a 7/10. Which, in relative terms to the competition is quite high, and thus should rate more.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

As pointed out previously they're aiming for the hardcore demographic so they deserve around what they're getting now.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DaveRA said:


> I watched Great Khali Vs Hornswoggle on youtube - 89 million views ....
> 
> Maybe AEW should produce tv like that?


How about AEW just tries not having stupidly long matches most weeks and cuts down on the inside jokes?


----------



## JasmineAEW

I don't know and honestly I don't care. To me, the ratings are what they are. Absolutely makes no difference to me.

I love AEW and haven't missed a Dynamite or Rampage yet. As long as they continue to entertain me and keep me loving their product, that's all that matters.


----------



## Upstart474

If AEW truly deserves to beat WWE, they would have done it overall. I don't believe in could have, would have, and should have. AEW is more of an alternative than competition at this point.


----------



## La Parka

DaveRA said:


> I watched Great Khali Vs Hornswoggle on youtube - 89 million views ....
> 
> Maybe AEW should produce tv like that?


They already do.


----------



## Curryfor3

Honestly, Dynamite should be getting Raw's numbers and vice versa. Rampage is fine where it is because they don't really make it must-see most weeks.


----------



## DammitChrist

Curryfor3 said:


> Honestly they should be getting Raw's numbers and vice versa.


Yep, I'm willing to double that.

Dynamite deserves to have Smackdown's current numbers, and vice versa.


----------



## CM Buck

I'm going to merge this


----------



## DammitChrist

Yay, we have our own mini-poll on here now


----------



## RapShepard

Firefromthegods said:


> I'm going to merge this


For what? The notion that anything involving ratings has to solely be in the ratings thread is just as silly as saying any thread involving happenings on Dynamite needs to be in the Dynamite thread.


----------



## CM Buck

RapShepard said:


> For what? The notion that anything involving ratings has to solely be in the ratings thread is just as silly as saying any thread involving happenings on Dynamite needs to be in the Dynamite thread.


Because it will inevitably just devolve into the same stuff you see in the AEW ratings thread anyway.


----------



## RapShepard

Firefromthegods said:


> Because it will inevitably just devolve into the same stuff you see in the AEW ratings thread anyway.


This is God awful reasoning, unless we're coming together to call Brandi useless every thread boils down to "I fucked with what AEW did" and "I don't fuck with what AEW" here.


----------



## CM Buck

RapShepard said:


> This is God awful reasoning, unless we're coming together to call Brandi useless every thread boils down to "I fucked with what AEW did" and "I don't fuck with what AEW" here.


It's done dude. I can't un merge it. It may be God awful reasoning but it's my God awful reasoning. The only exception to the numbers thing is yeah and his ratings game. And that's only cause he explained the difference between the two threads.

All ratings talk is the same to me


----------



## RapShepard

Firefromthegods said:


> It's done dude. I can't un merge it. It may be God awful reasoning but it's my God awful reasoning. The only exception to the numbers thing is yeah and his ratings game. And that's only cause he explained the difference between the two threads.
> 
> All ratings talk is the same to me


Cut it out you're not slow, you know the difference between a ongoing thread tracking ratings, and a thread asking if their current ratings should be better or worse. You don't merge every thread discussing the segments on Dynamite into the weekly Dynamite thread.


----------



## CM Buck

RapShepard said:


> Cut it out you're not slow, you know the difference between a ongoing thread tracking ratings, and a thread asking if their current ratings should be better or worse. You don't merge every thread discussing the segments on Dynamite into the weekly Dynamite thread.


Alright man, you want it separate just make your thread again and I won't touch it, I made a mistake.

I can't fix the mistake so just remake it


----------



## RapShepard

Firefromthegods said:


> Alright man, you want it separate just make your thread again and I won't touch it, I made a mistake.
> 
> I can't fix the mistake so just remake it


Good looking out


----------



## Kishido

Where are.rhe dynamite.ratings


----------



## Erik.

Kishido said:


> Where are.rhe dynamite.ratings


I thought they got 809k last week? 

I know that was fast nationals and there was a delay due to it being thanksgiving, but I imagine it isn't much higher (perhaps 850k) - which to be fair IS growth on the last two years and that's without a certain percentage not able to watch live due to the west coast issues if we are to be positive.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

La Parka said:


> Deserve what they get. They appeal to a hardcore fan base for the most part.
> 
> Its an average wrestling show with some established names and some good upcoming talent but my god does every week need some jackass that doesn't belong on TV? If its not Chuck Taylor, Its QT Marshall. If its not QT Marshall its Colton Gunn. If its not Colton Gunn its Matt Hardy. The list goes on and on.
> 
> The "comedy" of OC would be much more tolerable if they didn't have 5 other comedy acts on the show and also didn't have their main event guys acting like goofs.
> 
> There's also way too much shit that almost no one knows about. Maybe half the audience knew who Hangman was referring to the other week when he referenced Omegas old tag partner and maybe half of those people actually cared or seen a match featuring Kota Ibushi.
> 
> Theres plenty of good in AEW that could help the ratings in the future
> 
> Starks, MJF, Baker, Darby, Hobbs all have a world of potential. Riho, Sammy, Dante and Jungle Boy could also be good hands in the company.
> 
> CM Punk and MJF has been incredible. A feud that feels like a big time feud between two of the best on the mic. This is something you want to see every week.
> 
> Bryan and Page have been great. Heel Bryan is back and it couldn't of come sooner.


*Exactly. The Hangman reference is clear proof that they only care about those dedicated 800k viewers, which is a glaring example of why they will never grow. They keep making these stupid insider winks and nods like they expect everyone who watches their programming to have an extensive DVD collection of New Japan and ROH.*


----------



## the_flock

phatbob426 said:


> What Bryan Danielson is doing right now is a storyline. Every week he's going to kick-in a different member of the Dark Order's head until he gets to Hangman Page. He cuts promos about it every week and he delivers on kicking their heads in. He's doing it as a heel because Page and the Dark Order are babyfaces. This is coherent. It's an actual storyline (meaning it progresses). It makes sense. It's bad guy vs good guy.
> 
> I think I've made my point.


Except it doesn't make sense. You've brought in the biggest baby face in the industry of the last decade and you've turned him heel. He is the biggest star on the roster and you have him face bums. That isn't a storyline, that's putting him on TV in bullshit matches just for the sake of it. 

I remember Danielson saying he had a wishlist of certain wrestlers he wanted to tick off. Now he's facing guys like Colt Cabana. That right there is some Indie bullshit. 

Then they wonder why ratings are in the toilet.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

the_flock said:


> Except it doesn't make sense. You've brought in the biggest baby face in the industry of the last decade and you've turned him heel. He is the biggest star on the roster and you have him face bums. That isn't a storyline, that's putting him on TV in bullshit matches just for the sake of it.
> 
> I remember Danielson saying he had a wishlist of certain wrestlers he wanted to tick off. Now he's facing guys like Colt Cabana. That right there is some Indie bullshit.
> 
> Then they wonder why ratings are in the toilet.


*We keep being told long star vs jobber wrestling matches are perfectly fine though. It'll be the timeslot's fault when Rampage hits 300k.*


----------



## ShadowCounter

Chip Chipperson said:


> November 25th, 2020 - 712,000
> 
> November 24th, 2021 - 809,000
> 
> That's some growth.


Yes, cherry pick the Thanksgiving episodes. Shit like this is why no one takes you seriously.


----------



## ShadowCounter

validreasoning said:


> Yes people aren't watching TV as much anymore for sure but AEW isn't on Hulu and youtube isn't a significant platform for AEW like it is WWE.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1418629567573598210


Bit of a loaded story. A boatload of WWE's views and subscribers are from India where everyone not WWE has little presence. WWE was the one to put out the story of how India was their #1 youtube consumer like a year ago.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

ShadowCounter said:


> Yes, cherry pick the Thanksgiving episodes. Shit like this is why no one takes you seriously.


18th November 2020 - 850,000

17th November 2021 - 984,000

--- 

That November 18th 2020 episode of Dynamite went up against NXT as well so odds are if it ran unopposed it'd probably be a rating around 900k - 1m like it was on September 2nd and 9th which was the last time AEW ran unopposed.

There is minimal growth there bro. They've dropped tens of millions of dollars into guys like Sting, Big Show, Mark Henry, Bryan Danielson, Adam Cole, CM Punk, Andrade, Malakai Black, Christian etc and they're doing around the same number now that they were doing 12 months ago when NXT didn't run.

It isn't growth. Its the same million people that were tuning in last year and it'll be the same million people tuning in next year.

This is why people don't take YOU seriously. At least do your research before insulting others.


----------



## yeahright2

Kishido said:


> Where are.rhe dynamite.ratings


No ratings yet due to thanksgiving.. I´m waiting as well. - should be here later today though.


----------



## 3venflow

New events announcement. Wardlow is local so gets on a poster.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465365438242643969

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465364938411573249
WWE's attempt to catch up to AEW's sales in Long Island has fallen short.

Then again I'm impressed that many have paid to sit through three hours of RAW. You couldn't pay me to.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465061815080083456


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> New events announcement. Wardlow is local so gets on a poster.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465365438242643969
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465364938411573249
> WWE's attempt to catch up to AEW's sales in Long Island has fallen short.
> 
> Then again I'm impressed that many have paid to sit through three hours of RAW. You couldn't pay me to.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465061815080083456


Long Island / New York is AEW country now


----------



## deadcool

3venflow said:


> New events announcement. Wardlow is local so gets on a poster.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465365438242643969
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465364938411573249
> WWE's attempt to catch up to AEW's sales in Long Island has fallen short.
> 
> Then again I'm impressed that many have paid to sit through three hours of RAW. You couldn't pay me to.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465061815080083456


Interesting. So where is that "legitimate needle moving" that the fool Roman Reigns was talking about the other day?


----------



## TheDraw

Chip Chipperson said:


> 18th November 2020 - 850,000
> 
> 17th November 2021 - 984,000
> 
> ---
> 
> That November 18th 2020 episode of Dynamite went up against NXT as well so odds are if it ran unopposed it'd probably be a rating around 900k - 1m like it was on September 2nd and 9th which was the last time AEW ran unopposed.
> 
> There is minimal growth there bro. They've dropped tens of millions of dollars into guys like Sting, Big Show, Mark Henry, Bryan Danielson, Adam Cole, CM Punk, Andrade, Malakai Black, Christian etc and they're doing around the same number now that they were doing 12 months ago when NXT didn't run.
> 
> It isn't growth. Its the same million people that were tuning in last year and it'll be the same million people tuning in next year.
> 
> This is why people don't take YOU seriously. At least do your research before insulting others.


You really understand how big of a task it is for AEW to compete with the WWE when you realize that right now could very well be peak AEW we're watching RIGHT NOW. They have Punk hot off a long awaited return and Bryan supposedly at his peak, at least according to the fanbase. They even have Adam Cole who everyone loves. Doesn't matter.

I feel like a lot of money and resources are gonna go into AEW in the next few years just so millionaire Phony Khan can say he played Eric Bischoff vs Vince Mcmahon once upon a time.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *Exactly. The Hangman reference is clear proof that they only care about those dedicated 800k viewers, which is a glaring example of why they will never grow. They keep making these stupid insider winks and nods like they expect everyone who watches their programming to have an extensive DVD collection of New Japan and ROH.*


Wait, are you SERIOUSLY this frustrated over a small reference to Kota Ibushi during a promo?

Out of all the silly reasons you could possibly think of why they "can't" grow their audience (which is completely false btw), you come up with THAT logic? 

Jeez, you'd think after 2+ years of their existence, you'd finally get it through your head that AEW doesn't ignore other wrestling promotions out there.



The Legit DMD said:


> *We keep being told long star vs jobber wrestling matches are perfectly fine though. It'll be the timeslot's fault when Rampage hits 300k.*


They're perfectly fine though. By all means, keep ranting about it while they continue to thrive.



The Legit DMD said:


> *If we could put the Young Fucks, the Hardy Family Jobbers, Joey Janela, Chris Jericho, QT Marshall, The Dork Order, and all of the other awful shit on RAW and trade them for Rhea, Roman, and Sasha, then AEW would be the best wrestling show on television*.


Yikes at replacing GREAT talents like Chris Jericho and the Young Bucks with awful substitutions like the current Universal Champion  

This is why you're in the vocal minority.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465426831155343362

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

It finished sixth on cable and was up on 2019 (663,000 / 0.26) and 2020 Thanksgiving (712,000 / 0.26) episodes. Almost 100,000 more viewers than what the fast nationals reported.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465426831155343362
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*That dedicated 800k tuned in. Context for anyone trying to sell this as "growth:" NXT was still going head to head with Dynamite last year. Cut the crap.*


----------



## Prosper

Yeah we all expected a drop here, many including myself were never going to watch live last week but it’s good to see YoY Thanksgiving numbers looking better. Was a good episode too, Punk and MJF segment already at over 2 million views.


----------



## DaSlacker

800,000 is 800,000.

Imagine owning a business and you have that many people hanging out there on the eve of the biggest holiday day in the US. Not at a bar or out with family or watching another network or chilling on Netflix, YouTube, Tiktok, PlayStation, XBox etc. 

Growth is welcome but you need a loyal base. Just getting one of those is no easy feat.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW swimming hard against the tide.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465434925537107969


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> *That dedicated 800k tuned in. Context for anyone trying to sell this as "growth:" NXT was still going head to head with Dynamite last year. Cut the crap.*


True, but 2019 TNT did have a major blackout that probably didn't help ratings. 900k and .31 is killer for what's a big traveling day.


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> AEW swimming hard against the tide.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465434925537107969


He needs to give Steph and Cody some pointers on how to get fans to join in with you when you pat yourself on the back lol.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RapShepard said:


> True, but 2019 TNT did have a major blackout that probably didn't help ratings. 900k and .31 is killer for what's a big traveling day.


*Yeah, that's why I only brought up 2020.*


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## MonkasaurusRex

LifeInCattleClass said:


> last week it was the same(ish)
> 
> what does it matter, we’ll know the real number in 2 days - you can shit on it then?


 You're the one who is being defensive, so you tell me , what does it matter? I have no stake in their TV ratings I just think that it can create good and interesting discussion especially when people don't immediately resort "say something negative and I'll fucking stab you" reactions.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465426831155343362
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


az eggspected


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

MonkasaurusRex said:


> You're the one who is being defensive, so you tell me , what does it matter? I have no stake in their TV ratings I just think that it can create good and interesting discussion especially when people don't immediately resort "say something negative and I'll fucking stab you" reactions.


hey, you’re the one who replied to me while i was having a convo with someone else

also, lol at the ‘stab you’ hyperbole


----------



## RapShepard

The Legit DMD said:


> *Yeah, that's why I only brought up 2020.*


Got you the ones above included 2019 too that you were responding to that year as well. My bad


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *That dedicated 800k tuned in. Context for anyone trying to sell this as "growth:" NXT was still going head to head with Dynamite last year. Cut the crap.*


Rap says we shouldn’t care whats on the other channel, and you said we should ignore context - like ’deathslot’ and ‘moving nights’

so, by ignoring that nxt was still against them last year we are actually just listening to you guys


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

DammitChrist said:


> Yea, God forbid they decide to appease their own audience.


 There isn't anything wrong appeasing to your core audience the trick is to continue to appeal to them and also attempt to appeal to the broader audience. That's how true growth happens. Does AEW need to be in a hurry to rapidly expand their audience? Hell no but it's not something that can ignore indefinitely either.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

DaSlacker said:


> 800,000 is 800,000.
> 
> Imagine owning a business and you have that many people hanging out there on the eve of the biggest holiday day in the US. Not at a bar or out with family or watching another network or chilling on Netflix, YouTube, Tiktok, PlayStation, XBox etc.
> 
> Growth is welcome but you need a loyal base. Just getting one of those is no easy feat.


*No argument there. Just don't try to spin it as "growth" when 721k viewers chose to watch NXT last year and AEW only managed to get 20% of that audience. *


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *No argument there. Just don't try to spin it when 721k viewers chose to watch NXT last year and they only managed to get 20% of that audience. *


half those viewers died of old age in the last year 

so they cannot switch the channel


----------



## yeahright2

Do we have Rampage Ratings yet?


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

LifeInCattleClass said:


> hey, you’re the one who replied to me while i was having a convo with someone else
> 
> also, lol at the ‘stab you’ hyperbole


Oh no someone else joined a conversation on a message what is the world coming to? How will we ever survive if people can't just mind their own business on an open message board?

Humour was the intent of the remark. You personally may not be that extreme and granted no one really is but there are a lot of "extreme" reactions to any criticism of AEW so you likely understand why I made such a hyperbolic remark.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> az eggspected


That's roughly an 11% bump and you are expecting a 30% bump for Rampage's number to get it to 520k. Could be tough to make that happen.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

LifeInCattleClass said:


> half those viewers died of old age in the last year
> 
> so they cannot switch the channel


Isn't the median age of AEW's audience something like 47? It's almost like wrestling in general just doesn't appeal to the younger side of the audience.

Of course, that audience is the hardest to gauge just how interested in wrestling that segment of the audience is because it is far less likely that they rely on "conventional" means of consuming content.


----------



## 3venflow

Rampage ratings will be tomorrow afternoon. If it follows the same pattern as Dynamite, final will probably be somewhere between 440 and 450,000 total viewership (no idea on the demo yet).


----------



## yeahright2

Results for the Ratings game will be tomorrow when we have Rampage ratings. There will also be a scoreboard with who have won and how many times


----------



## NathanMayberry

Based on the roster the ratings should be much higher. Based on the booking the ratings should be much lower. So they cancel each other out.


----------



## ProjectGargano

NathanMayberry said:


> Based on the roster the ratings should be much higher. Based on the booking the ratings should be much lower. So they cancel each other out.


Are you so obsessed with TK? That avatar says it all about you.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

MonkasaurusRex said:


> *Oh no someone else joined a conversation on a message what is the world coming to? How will we ever survive if people can't just mind their own business on an open message board?
> 
> Humour was the intent of the remark. You personally may not be that extreme and granted no one really is but there are a lot of "extreme" reactions to any criticism of AEW so you likely understand why I made such a hyperbolic remark.*


dude, so far last couple of pages - you’ve been the only one with any ‘extreme’ reactions

just chill, its really not that serious


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

NathanMayberry said:


> Based on the roster the ratings should be much higher. Based on the booking the ratings should be much lower. So they cancel each other out.


----------



## bdon

Prosper said:


> Yeah we all expected a drop here, many including myself were never going to watch live last week but it’s good to see YoY Thanksgiving numbers looking better. Was a good episode too, Punk and MJF segment already at over 2 million views.


While cable subscriptions continue to drop. Don’t forget that.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> View attachment 112449


Well, at least you finally embraced that term yourself (even though you shouldn't be proud of it at all).


----------



## DaSlacker

The Legit DMD said:


> *No argument there. Just don't try to spin it as "growth" when 721k viewers chose to watch NXT last year and AEW only managed to get 20% of that audience. *


Only so much wrestling people can watch. The 50+ demo had their share with 3 hour Raw and 2 hour NXT at the beginning of the week. 

Plus I've often felt there was a bit of double sampling happening with these head to head wrestling shows. People switching back and forth and inflating the overall audience.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Acknowledge the GROWTH, BABAY!*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465460189037948934


----------



## WolfWiggler

Wrestling Forum







www.wrestlingforum.com













Wrestling Forum







www.wrestlingforum.com







These are only 2 examples, I could always find more. So these guys acted like morons in rants but technically weren't banned for "breaking the rules." Sound familiar? I'm sure it does, ol' @Chip Chipperson lol, he has spent the majority of his existence on this forum crying about some GRAVE INJUSTICE because he's gotten now 3 bans. Dude, it's time to face reality, you're not special and you never will be. Seriously, is this just some gigantic troll job by you or do you honestly think the mods did you wrong and you want to spend all day crying about it? The fuck? I'd love to see this guy pull this act 5-10 years ago, he'd be laughed at and neg trained.



Now certainly, Chip's boys who are all about transparency and finding out the truth would be all over these "unjust" bannings right? I mean, surely right?



@La Parka in 2016:



La Parka said:


> Well I'm assuming most of us don't live in shitty Texas where the majority of the place still believes there's a magical man in the sky upset at where we put our cocks.


Absolutely nothing about the UNJUST TREATMENT of Baby K's Grown Boy BITCH, who got his name altered, and eventually perma'd for being an annoying asshole. Sorry breh, can't say Chip's ban was a GRAVE INJUSTICE but pretend this perma was perfectly fine. Always knew your "credibility" was shot but this takes the cake.

They keep trying to silence me, but I won't stop until THE TRUTH! THE TRUTH! THE TRUTH!!! is revealed!! 🦓🦓🦓


----------



## InfamousGerald

WolfWiggler said:


> Wrestling Forum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrestling Forum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are only 2 examples, I could always find more. So these guys acted like morons in rants but technically weren't banned for "breaking the rules." Sound familiar? I'm sure it does, ol' @Chip Chipperson lol, he has spent the majority of his existence on this forum crying about some GRAVE INJUSTICE because he's gotten now 3 bans. Dude, it's time to face reality, you're not special and you never will be. Seriously, is this just some gigantic troll job by you or do you honestly think the mods did you wrong and you want to spend all day crying about it? The fuck? I'd love to see this guy pull this act 5-10 years ago, he'd be laughed at and neg trained.
> 
> 
> 
> Now certainly, Chip's boys who are all about transparency and finding out the truth would be all over these "unjust" bannings right? I mean, surely right?
> 
> 
> 
> @La Parka in 2016:
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely nothing about the UNJUST TREATMENT of Baby K's Grown Boy BITCH, who got his name altered, and eventually perma'd for being an annoying asshole. Sorry breh, can't say Chip's ban was a GRAVE INJUSTICE but pretend this perma was perfectly fine. Always knew your "credibility" was shot but this takes the cake.
> 
> They keep trying to silence me, but I won't stop until THE TRUTH! THE TRUTH! THE TRUTH!!! is revealed!! 🦓🦓🦓


Tf? Lmaooo


----------



## La Parka

WolfWiggler said:


> Wrestling Forum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrestling Forum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are only 2 examples, I could always find more. So these guys acted like morons in rants but technically weren't banned for "breaking the rules." Sound familiar? I'm sure it does, ol' @Chip Chipperson lol, he has spent the majority of his existence on this forum crying about some GRAVE INJUSTICE because he's gotten now 3 bans. Dude, it's time to face reality, you're not special and you never will be. Seriously, is this just some gigantic troll job by you or do you honestly think the mods did you wrong and you want to spend all day crying about it? The fuck? I'd love to see this guy pull this act 5-10 years ago, he'd be laughed at and neg trained.
> 
> 
> 
> Now certainly, Chip's boys who are all about transparency and finding out the truth would be all over these "unjust" bannings right? I mean, surely right?
> 
> 
> 
> @La Parka in 2016:
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely nothing about the UNJUST TREATMENT of Baby K's Grown Boy BITCH, who got his name altered, and eventually perma'd for being an annoying asshole. Sorry breh, can't say Chip's ban was a GRAVE INJUSTICE but pretend this perma was perfectly fine. Always knew your "credibility" was shot but this takes the cake.
> 
> They keep trying to silence me, but I won't stop until THE TRUTH! THE TRUTH! THE TRUTH!!! is revealed!! 🦓🦓🦓


I don't even know any of the users you're talking about and my comments had nothing to do with their ban.

why did you stop mentioning @DammitChrist in your manifestos? did he tell ya to stop?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DaSlacker said:


> 800,000 is 800,000.
> 
> Imagine owning a business and you have that many people hanging out there on the eve of the biggest holiday day in the US. Not at a bar or out with family or watching another network or chilling on Netflix, YouTube, Tiktok, PlayStation, XBox etc.
> 
> Growth is welcome but you need a loyal base. Just getting one of those is no easy feat.


800k is good as a base but the problem is if you only have your floor and can't grow that means obviously the business doesn't grow. Most businessmen are in business because they want to grow ranging from Walmart to your local burger shop.

Can you imagine the executives at Coca Cola being all like "We sell millions of drinks a year so lets just chill in our office, not make commercials or try any new marketing campaigns. We've done it fam". That's kind of what AEW fans want AEW to do, lol.




WolfWiggler said:


> Wrestling Forum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrestling Forum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are only 2 examples, I could always find more. So these guys acted like morons in rants but technically weren't banned for "breaking the rules." Sound familiar? I'm sure it does, ol' @Chip Chipperson lol, he has spent the majority of his existence on this forum crying about some GRAVE INJUSTICE because he's gotten now 3 bans. Dude, it's time to face reality, you're not special and you never will be. Seriously, is this just some gigantic troll job by you or do you honestly think the mods did you wrong and you want to spend all day crying about it? The fuck? I'd love to see this guy pull this act 5-10 years ago, he'd be laughed at and neg trained.
> 
> 
> 
> Now certainly, Chip's boys who are all about transparency and finding out the truth would be all over these "unjust" bannings right? I mean, surely right?
> 
> 
> 
> @La Parka in 2016:
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely nothing about the UNJUST TREATMENT of Baby K's Grown Boy BITCH, who got his name altered, and eventually perma'd for being an annoying asshole. Sorry breh, can't say Chip's ban was a GRAVE INJUSTICE but pretend this perma was perfectly fine. Always knew your "credibility" was shot but this takes the cake.
> 
> They keep trying to silence me, but I won't stop until THE TRUTH! THE TRUTH! THE TRUTH!!! is revealed!! 🦓🦓🦓


I've made good with the mods. How is buying the forum coming along?


----------



## thorn123

That was a great Dynamite (I thought Rampage was poor). Whilst AEW may not deserve more viewers holistically, in a vacuum, it should be the highest rating wrestling show. Even the critics have to agree with that.

I say this every week - no amount of perfect booking will change the needle much. It just is what it is.


----------



## Joe Gill

the only thing I care about is the difference in viewers between the start of the Punk MJF segment and the end...it was 20 mins long and Im expecting an increase in viewers by the end...if thats the case expect to see more long in ring segments like that in the future which really help flesh out storylines and character development. Every episode of Dynamite should start with an extended promo instead of some random match no one gives a shit about.


----------



## 3venflow




----------



## Chip Chipperson

DaveRA said:


> I say this every week - no amount of perfect booking will change the needle much. It just is what it is.


They need someone who can attract the casuals and then they need to keep them with good booking. CM Punk could've been that guy but from memory all the shows after Punk came were poor to average.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Lolz - where my ratingz experts at?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465502580730220549


----------



## thorn123

Chip Chipperson said:


> They need someone who can attract the casuals and then they need to keep them with good booking. CM Punk could've been that guy but from memory all the shows after Punk came were poor to average.


No Punk isn't that big. Rock is the only one that could affect major change imo


----------



## DaSlacker

Chip Chipperson said:


> 800k is good as a base but the problem is if you only have your floor and can't grow that means obviously the business doesn't grow. Most businessmen are in business because they want to grow ranging from Walmart to your local burger shop.
> 
> Can you imagine the executives at Coca Cola being all like "We sell millions of drinks a year so lets just chill in our office, not make commercials or try any new marketing campaigns. We've done it fam". That's kind of what AEW fans want AEW to do, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've made good with the mods. How is buying the forum coming along?


The thing is, wrestling promotions always had their base and never really increased it unless they hit upon something original and relevant. The territories had their fanbase and drew good gates for a hot feud. WWF's 80's Rock n Wrestling and national rollouts were the biggies. Then the Monday Night Wars. The increased television viewership back then coincided with a larger and larger pool of people watching cable. They got 6 years out of it before dropping and eventually stagnating. Attitude got 5 years. Then it was years and years of hovering around the 4-4.5 million viewers number. Occasionally an episode would hit 5-6 million, or a 25% increase. Since 2010 the US TV market has been in freefall. ECW and TNA never caught on as fads so simply stagnated. AEW is in the same boat. 

The Coca Cola analogy is a tricky one because everybody eats and drinks and the population increases. Markets like China, India emerge. Wrestling is of course unnecessary and very much for a unique fanbase. Still, a product like AEW and wrestling is increasing its international coverage and finding new ways to be consumed. 

The kick starting of a feud or push of wrestler or debut could be compared to a big food/drink companies new product and marketing campaign.


----------



## Kishido

Dat Tony tweet lol... Pathetic


----------



## One Shed

WolfWiggler said:


> Wrestling Forum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrestling Forum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are only 2 examples, I could always find more. So these guys acted like morons in rants but technically weren't banned for "breaking the rules." Sound familiar? I'm sure it does, ol' @Chip Chipperson lol, he has spent the majority of his existence on this forum crying about some GRAVE INJUSTICE because he's gotten now 3 bans. Dude, it's time to face reality, you're not special and you never will be. Seriously, is this just some gigantic troll job by you or do you honestly think the mods did you wrong and you want to spend all day crying about it? The fuck? I'd love to see this guy pull this act 5-10 years ago, he'd be laughed at and neg trained.
> 
> 
> 
> Now certainly, Chip's boys who are all about transparency and finding out the truth would be all over these "unjust" bannings right? I mean, surely right?
> 
> 
> 
> @La Parka in 2016:
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely nothing about the UNJUST TREATMENT of Baby K's Grown Boy BITCH, who got his name altered, and eventually perma'd for being an annoying asshole. Sorry breh, can't say Chip's ban was a GRAVE INJUSTICE but pretend this perma was perfectly fine. Always knew your "credibility" was shot but this takes the cake.
> 
> They keep trying to silence me, but I won't stop until THE TRUTH! THE TRUTH! THE TRUTH!!! is revealed!! 🦓🦓🦓


Well, now we know where ole @Chrome has been for the last few days. Locked up in his basement reading through 5+ years of @La Parka's posts to try and say "SEEE! You have not been 100% consistent in your statements over a multi- year period on an online forum!!!"

Pathetic.


----------



## CovidFan

Seems like a reasonable number this week. lol @ the couple of posters who called it "800k" when it's 898k.


----------



## Erik.

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465426831155343362
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Pretty much without a West Coast too. 

Cant wait for them to move to TBS.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> Pretty much without a West Coast too.
> 
> Cant wait for them to move to TBS.


let's not use the west coast excuse

when they move and it is suddenly 1.1m to 1.2m we can say its 'growth'


----------



## Erik.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> let's not use the west coast excuse
> 
> when they move and it is suddenly 1.1m to 1.2m we can say its 'growth'


----------



## Randy Lahey

3venflow said:


> View attachment 112452


Huge demos for the promo at the top of the show. I expect more of that.

Women’s wrestling….simply not enough people want to watch it. There’s a reason TK rarely does more than 1 women’s match


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Joe Gill said:


> the only thing I care about is the difference in viewers between the start of the Punk MJF segment and the end...it was 20 mins long and Im expecting an increase in viewers by the end...if thats the case expect to see more long in ring segments like that in the future which really help flesh out storylines and character development. Every episode of Dynamite should start with an extended promo instead of some random match no one gives a shit about.


*As expected, everyone started tuning out for Punk vs QT Marshall and the promo's peak was never touched. It's almost like no one wants to watch stars vs jobbers for 15 minutes.*


----------



## rbl85

Randy Lahey said:


> Huge demos for the promo at the top of the show. I expect more of that.
> 
> Women’s wrestling….simply not enough people want to watch it. There’s a reason TK rarely does more than 1 women’s match


It depends on which women are wrestling because we saw matches of Baker, Shida, Rosa or Riho do really really well


----------



## Erik.

3venflow said:


> View attachment 112452


Billy Gunn. Such a draw.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage*

Viewership: 431,000
18-49: 0.18

#17 on cable for the day.


----------



## Joe Gill

3venflow said:


> *AEW Rampage*
> 
> Viewership: 431,000
> 18-49: 0.18
> 
> #17 on cable for the day.


brutal. no one gives a shit about these overbooked midcard storylines an randomly thrown together matches. Even the hardcore fans will get sick of that shit eventually.. especially at that time slot


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

3venflow said:


> *AEW Rampage*
> 
> Viewership: 431,000
> 18-49: 0.18
> 
> #17 on cable for the day.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465796789668352004

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Its over, i’m done

if you want me, come find me in the Smackdown threads acknowledging the tribal chief or in the Alexa Bliss fan thread doing…… whatever the hell it is they do over there

bye AEW!






*luckily the number will go up this week and we can call it growth!


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465796789668352004
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*Oh look, more record low ratings. The Tribal Chief and The BOSS can't relate. Y'all enjoy that new season of Rhodes to The Top though.







*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Oh look, more record low ratings. The Tribal Chief and The BOSS can't relate. Y'all enjoy that new season of Rhodes to The Top though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


lol! Tell em Boss!


----------



## yeahright2

Ratings are in.
And as promised, an updated scoreboard
AEW Ratings prediction game

As for last week -Dynamite did good (better than most people expected). But there was no Bucks or Omega on the show, so that tells us something..
Rampage on the other hand was a disaster.. Cole and King vs Best Friends, Kingston vs Garcia and Riho vs Baker? Not enough stars on this show.


----------



## InexorableJourney

Eddie Kingston is ratings cancer.


----------



## yeahright2

InexorableJourney said:


> Eddie Kingston is ratings cancer.


I don´t think it´s Kingston. But this Garcia fella came out of nowhere, and suddenly he´s part of everything.. No backstory, no fanbase.. Nothing. Why should we care about just another guy that looks like he just stepped out of some outlaw show somewhere?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Low 500k seemed to be the bottom, but that now got shattered and is low-mid 400k... for now. Bad number.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

For AEW's sake I hope Rampage's numbers bounce back.


----------



## Curryfor3

yeahright2 said:


> I don´t think it´s Kingston. But this Garcia fella came out of nowhere, and suddenly he´s part of everything.. No backstory, no fanbase.. Nothing. Why should we care about just another guy that looks like he just stepped out of some outlaw show somewhere?


Since they've showed up, 2.0 and Garcia have feuded with the likes of Punk, Sting, Allin and now Kingston without any reason for us to care about any of them. They should be banished to the YouTube shows.


----------



## RainmakerV2

3venflow said:


> *AEW Rampage*
> 
> Viewership: 431,000
> 18-49: 0.18
> 
> #17 on cable for the day.



I was told it was gonna magically jump to its normal number of 520k.


Interesting


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

yeahright2 said:


> I don´t think it´s Kingston. But this Garcia fella came out of nowhere, and suddenly he´s part of everything.. No backstory, no fanbase.. Nothing. Why should we care about just another guy that looks like he just stepped out of some outlaw show somewhere?


*Yep. No one wants to have this conversation, but as great as Daniel Garcia is in the ring, no one cares to watch him without a backstory. He's just a really good technical wrestler who walks around backstage harassing people in interviews and catering. We have no reason to be invested in him.*


----------



## yeahright2

The Legit DMD said:


> *Yep. No one wants to have this conversation, but as great as Daniel Garcia is in the ring, no one cares to watch him without a backstory. He's just a really good technical wrestler who walks around backstage harassing people in interviews and catering. We have no reason to be invested in him.*


At least 2.0 can use the old "misused by WWE" trope. But Garcia? Nobody have ever heard of him before his AEW debut. He´s trained by Pepper Parks, so that explains why he´s there. And I agree, he´s good, but not someone we should really care about.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

yeahright2 said:


> At least 2.0 can use the old "misused by WWE" trope. But Garcia? Nobody have ever heard of him before his AEW debut. He´s trained by Pepper Parks, so that explains why he´s there. And I agree, he´s good, but not someone we should really care about.


*Even Cornette tries to excuse it because he loves the wrestling, but he still acknowledges that Garcia shouldn't be jobbing on TV in random matches every week. *


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> Ratings are in.
> And as promised, an updated scoreboard
> AEW Ratings prediction game
> 
> As for last week -Dynamite did good (better than most people expected). But there was no Bucks or Omega on the show, so that tells us something..
> Rampage on the other hand was a disaster.. Cole and King vs Best Friends, Kingston vs Garcia and Riho vs Baker? Not enough stars on this show.


kingston, cole and baker

friggin‘ nobodies - when will money mark tk learn!


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> kingston, cole and baker
> 
> friggin‘ nobodies - when will money mark tk learn!


The problem isn´t those names.. But the names they were up against.
Would anyone tune in to watch SCSA vs the Brooklyn Brawler?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> The problem isn´t those names.. But the names they were up against.
> Would anyone tune in to watch SCSA vs the Brooklyn Brawler?


i mean, i would

edit> as an aside


----------



## 3venflow

Well, no one can complain about this week's Rampage feature match having no purpose or storyline: FTR vs. Lucha Brothers 2/3 falls for the tag belts

Also a TNT title match underneath it with Sammy vs. Nese in Nese's first non-Dark match after being shown at ringside a lot as the 'hottest free agent'.

Let's see if that spikes the ratings. If not, Tony may as well continue to treat it as a B show with good workrate matches.


----------



## RainmakerV2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> kingston, cole and baker
> 
> friggin‘ nobodies - when will money mark tk learn!



Where was that magic jump to 500k you were talking about?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RainmakerV2 said:


> Where was that magic jump to 500k you were talking about?


you’re thinking about somebody else

i acknowledge the tribal chief


----------



## Prosper

LifeInCattleClass said:


> kingston, cole and baker
> 
> friggin‘ nobodies - when will money mark tk learn!


Lol nice avatar



RainmakerV2 said:


> Where was that magic jump to 500k you were talking about?


It'll come back up eventually we all know that, I mean Kingston/Garcia is at 340K views which is like 80% of what the cable audience was last Friday, Riho/Britt at 320K views, I don't remember what the 3rd match was, its a rough time slot


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i mean, i would
> 
> edit> as an aside
> 
> View attachment 112503


Brooklyn Brawler was severely underrated..


----------



## RainmakerV2

Prosper said:


> Lol nice avatar
> 
> 
> 
> It'll come back up eventually we all know that, I mean Kingston/Garcia is at 340K views which is like 80% of what the cable audience was last Friday, Riho/Britt at 320K views, I don't remember what the 3rd match was, its a rough time slot


He said it would jump 120k from the fast nationals which made no sense lol.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RainmakerV2 said:


> He said it would jump 120k from the fast nationals which made no sense lol.


wasn’t me, was somebody else

you know these aew drones mate, they’ll defend anything


----------



## RapShepard

3venflow said:


> Well, no one can complain about this week's Rampage feature match having no purpose or storyline: FTR vs. Lucha Brothers 2/3 falls for the tag belts
> 
> Also a TNT title match underneath it with Sammy vs. Nese in Nese's first non-Dark match after being shown at ringside a lot as the 'hottest free agent'.
> 
> Let's see if that spikes the ratings. If not, Tony may as well continue to treat it as a B show with good workrate matches.


You ain't wrong, but I'll complain any way

Um if it's a story nobody likes does it even count if they continue it 


Rampage needs more titty meat and violence.


----------



## thorn123

That was their worst Rampage imo. OC is a channel changer, Riho (whilst I respect her ability) is just too small to be taken seriously and I like Eddie as a midcard bully, not a main eventer. The wrestling was sound, I was just not engaged.


----------



## NathanMayberry

MonkasaurusRex said:


> For AEW's sake I hope Rampage's numbers bounce back.


They will touch the 300s before the end of the year. Maybe even the 200s on Dec 24 or 31.


----------



## RainmakerV2

RapShepard said:


> You ain't wrong, but I'll complain any way
> 
> Um if it's a story nobody likes does it even count if they continue it
> 
> 
> Rampage needs more titty meat and violence.



Agreed. Kevin Nash always said with the WWE network they should do a show on Friday or Saturday night that's geared strictly towards adults with a lot of sex and violence. Rampage is on Friday at 10. Sex and blood it up. Make it feel different. It's just a mini Dynamite at a horrible time now, no one cares.


----------



## La Parka

Rampage is a bad television show and last week had plenty of reasons why nobody tuned in.

Daniel Garcia has never won a match on TV. We know very little about this man outside of him being a wrestler that everyone beats. There are very few people who would want to see this man main event. 

OC and Wheeler Yuta vs Fish and Cole....

A comedy guy and a guy that maybe 10 people have heard of facing off against Fish and Cole. Who was interested in this match? All of the AEW hardcore fanbase have known about Cole and Fish for years and if NXT numbers were anything to go by, they didn't give a fuck about these two... so why would they tune in on a friday night to see them? 

Riho and Baker... yawn. Two good talents but they're doing the WWE thing where you have to beat the champion to get a shot at her. Baker and Riho have faced off against each other in some shape or form 9 times in AEW. This highlights how weak the women's division is and really showcases why its such a bad idea to have multiple women's titles for a brand that has one established main event player. I'd much rather see a mid card feud between Thunder Rosa and Deeb play out on Rampage than having AEW's 10th tournament of the year on one show and then them doing their best WWE impersonation on the next. 

and then theres Jericho...

Is there a worse wrestling personality than Chris Jericho? who the fuck wants to watch something where some jackass is yelling in your ear non-stop. I'm watching on TV, I don't want to experience what it would be like to be in the nose bleeds of the arena sitting beside some dude whose 8 tall boys in.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

RainmakerV2 said:


> I was told it was gonna magically jump to its normal number of 520k.
> 
> 
> Interesting


Yeah, some people are pretty bad at math it seems.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Rampage always tanks when it’s a taped show. AEW’s demo just isn’t going to watch a taped show late on a Friday night.

But it’s no doubt the people are speaking and they are saying women’s wrestling sucks and isn’t watchable


----------



## RapShepard

RainmakerV2 said:


> Agreed. Kevin Nash always said with the WWE network they should do a show on Friday or Saturday night that's geared strictly towards adults with a lot of sex and violence. Rampage is on Friday at 10. Sex and blood it up. Make it feel different. It's just a mini Dynamite at a horrible time now, no one cares.


Granted I don't look to wrestling for sex appeal. But leaning into sex appeal and more violence probably wouldn't hurt. Though I wonder how you could add the sex appeal in way that doesn't get folk up in arms.


----------



## Prosper

RapShepard said:


> Granted I don't look to wrestling for sex appeal. But leaning into sex appeal and more violence probably wouldn't hurt. Though I wonder how you could add the sex appeal in way that doesn't get folk up in arms.


You mean we can't get away with this in 2021? I think they can do it, Jungle Boy and Anna Jay


----------



## RapShepard

Prosper said:


> You mean we can't get away with this in 2021? I think they can do it, Jungle Boy and Anna Jay


Could be a weekly interview segment [emoji848] [emoji23]


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

RapShepard said:


> Granted I don't look to wrestling for sex appeal. But leaning into sex appeal and more violence probably wouldn't hurt. Though I wonder how you could add the sex appeal in way that doesn't get folk up in arms.



It's pretty much impossible at this point. Too many people have access to platforms where they can instantly take issue with what they see. Especially, deliberate sexualization. There's also the fact that the world has changed and overt sexualization is far less acceptable now than it was when wrestling leaned into it. As for violence, I'm not sure it's as difficult to lean into as the other but the instant platform for disapproval remains a pretty massive hurdle to overcome these days.


----------



## RapShepard

MonkasaurusRex said:


> It's pretty much impossible at this point. Too many people have access to platforms where they can instantly take issue with what they see. Especially, deliberate sexualization. There's also the fact that the world has changed and overt sexualization is far less acceptable now than it was when wrestling leaned into it. As for violence, I'm not sure it's as difficult to lean into as the other but the instant platform for disapproval remains a pretty massive hurdle to overcome these days.


I feel you because even the Raw Underground dancers got some heat for being tasteless and that was tame lol


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

RapShepard said:


> I feel you because even the Raw Underground dancers got some heat for being tasteless and that was tame lol


If I'm not mistaken even Mandy in a robe and Alexa with her arms covering her breasts got some heat or there was some questioning what the point of doing it was.

Like you, I'm not now nor was I ever(I was way into wrestling from a very young age) watching wrestling for the sex appeal(as a teenager during the AE it was a bonus) nor am I against it existing in the medium. It's just going to be very difficult in the current climate for companies with the profile of WWE or AEW to lean into it than it used to be. A smaller company like Impact can do it much more openly and by extension successfully.

One of the strangest things about the whole situation is that conventional women's wrestling attire has swayed more towards being "salacious"(push up bras, booty shorts, etc.) whereas in the past(prior to late in the AE the look was predominantly the "one-piece swimsuit" and other significantly less easily sexualized attires. There was, of course, exceptions to the rule) while the acceptance of sexualization, in general, has lessened. Even "serious' wrestlers have been wearing attires that are quite revealing attires. Just look at what Becky wore at Survivor Series or what women like Toni, Britt, Alexa, Mandy, Charlotte, etc usually wear when they wrestle as examples.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i mean, i would
> 
> edit> as an aside
> 
> View attachment 112503


*The difference? That was a squash that lead to an angle-not a 15 minute match through a break.*


----------



## RapShepard

MonkasaurusRex said:


> If I'm not mistaken even Mandy in a robe and Alexa with her arms covering her breasts got some heat or there was some questioning what the point of doing it was.


It's super ironic considering that this is the time where people actually will put support behind sex workers being respectable and stuff like that.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

RapShepard said:


> It's super ironic considering that this is the time where people actually will put support behind sex workers being respectable and stuff like that.


Hypocrisy is quite rampant, for sure. I'm sex work and sex worker positive myself. I'm also not going to get on my soapbox and denounce titillation on a TV show in a movie.


----------



## Curryfor3

Prosper said:


> You mean we can't get away with this in 2021? I think they can do it, Jungle Boy and Anna Jay


"Anna Spends A Night In The Jungle" writes itself.


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> Agreed. Kevin Nash always said with the WWE network they should do a show on Friday or Saturday night that's geared strictly towards adults with a lot of sex and violence. Rampage is on Friday at 10. *Sex and blood it up*. Make it feel different. It's just a mini Dynamite at a horrible time now, no one cares.


I guess we could use more Jamie Hayter, Anna Jay, Tay Conti, Kris Statlander, Britt Baker, and Thunder Rosa then


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *The difference? That was a squash that lead to an angle-not a 15 minute match through a break.*


i acknowledge your point tribal boss


----------



## Kishido

Still no Dynamite?


----------



## Erik.

Kishido said:


> Still no Dynamite?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465599878722048002


----------



## Kishido

Erik. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465599878722048002


Well an OK number


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

WWE vs AEW tickets distributed

looks pretty evens


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466183511518420998


----------



## Erik.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> WWE vs AEW tickets distributed
> 
> looks pretty evens
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466183511518420998


That's pretty cool. 

It's great to see that growth.


----------



## Tobiyama

No one can defend the Rampage ratings. It's a bad time slot. But AEW is mostly using second tier wrestlers on the show. They occasionally have a superstar wrestle, but they are always up against a jobber.


----------



## BroncoBuster3

Tobiyama said:


> No one can defend the Rampage ratings. It's a bad time slot. But AEW is mostly using second tier wrestlers on the show. They occasionally have a superstar wrestle, but they are always up against a jobber.


This wasn't an excuse when they beat 3rd tier developmental wrestlers and other PWG alumni in the ratings and shouldn't be used as an excuse when their own show does poorly. 

They lucked out with a good spot for Dynamite because of who the Khan's knew. This show needs to be good to earn a better spot and so far hasn't given anyone a reason to.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

BroncoBuster3 said:


> This wasn't an excuse when they beat 3rd tier developmental wrestlers and other PWG alumni in the ratings and shouldn't be used as an excuse when their own show does poorly.
> 
> They lucked out with a good spot for Dynamite because of who the Khan's knew. This show needs to be good to earn a better spot and so far hasn't given anyone a reason to.


*Exactly. Rampage is a massive failure that gets progressively worse each week.*


----------



## 3venflow

Is this the first time the Rampage main event has outdrawn Q1 in total viewers (not the demo which progressively went down)?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

So either Kingston and Garcia helped prop the show up, not giving into the normal decline Rampage has, OR low 420 is truly the bottom and the main event happened to draw the biggest stick of the 4 quarters in terms of viewership.


----------



## One Shed

JeanPaul909 said:


> Don't worry two sheds of shit, your day is coming. Again, I just want some consistency. And the " online forum" thing is funny considering you clowns cried like unchanged babies when @Chip Chipperson got rightfully banned. Was more than just an "online forum" then wasn't it eh? Also I didn't read thru 5+ years of @La Parka's shit posts, I looked up his posts specifically in January 2016 and saw he was quiet as hell when Baby K was getting his account fucked with and then banned. You've also got some nerve getting mad at me for calling people faggotts when that insult has been thrown around like nothing on here for years, especially in rants. Are they homophobes too?????? Gotta be honest, I'd say among the Chip butt buddy brigade you're the biggest bitch of them all. You need your head caved in with a pipe in the worst of ways.


You have serious issues. "I disagree with you online so I hope you get physically assaulted."

Again, pathetic.


----------



## .christopher.

Two Sheds said:


> You have serious issues. "I disagree with you online so I hope you get physically assaulted."
> 
> Again, pathetic.


I'm afraid the writing is on the wall for you. And it's written in shit.


----------



## 3venflow

Just under 8,800 tickets sold for next week's Dynamite/Rampage in Long Island.


----------



## DammitChrist

BroncoBuster3 said:


> This wasn't an excuse when they beat 3rd tier developmental wrestlers and other PWG alumni in the ratings and shouldn't be used as an excuse when their own show does poorly.
> 
> They lucked out with a good spot for Dynamite because of who the Khan's knew. This show needs to be good to earn a better spot and so far hasn't given anyone a reason to.


Nah, you're completely wrong about the "excuses" (which is BEYOND overused by some folks who misinterpret its definition) since the awful time slot if a LEGITIMATE reason for the numbers.

By the way, Rampage is also a good wrestling show too; so you're also wrong here too 



The Legit DMD said:


> *Exactly. Rampage is a massive failure that gets progressively worse each week.*


Except that Rampage is actually not a "failure," and the show is honestly really good 😂

What show are you even watching (since it's apparently not Rampage)?


----------



## Aedubya

.87 guess for this week


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> Is this the first time the Rampage main event has outdrawn Q1 in total viewers (not the demo which progressively went down)?
> 
> View attachment 112666


*No. Britt vs Velvet did it in total viewers if I remember correctly. *

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1455494721401352192
*Edit: nevermind

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1427685916592726024*


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466510201717207055

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466511575121022980
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466510201717207055
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*That's a 37k drop from Thanksgiving week. I wonder what the EXCUSES will be this time.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *That's a 37k drop from Thanksgiving week. I wonder what the EXCUSES will be this time.*


Post thanks-giving tiredness of course

never heard of it?


----------



## fabi1982

The table, its the tables fault!!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Not a good number. They ain’t touching a million again for awhile I think. Maybe Winter is Coming, but beyond that? Don’t know.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Post thanks-giving tiredness of course
> 
> never heard of it?


*YOU BE QUIET TRAITOR! WE'VE ALREADY DEPLOYED A SAMOAN HIT SQUAD ON YOUR ASS! THE TRIBAL CHIEF IS NOT PLEASED WITH YOUR TREASON!!! 😡😡😡*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *YOU BE QUIET TRAITOR! WE'VE ALREADY DEPLOYED A SAMOAN HIT SQUAD ON YOUR ASS! THE TRIBAL CHIEF IS NOT PLEASED WITH YOUR TREASON!!! 😡😡😡*


(Shhh… I’m spying on these Dub Drones for the chief! Don’t blow my cover!)


----------



## Whoanma

Oh, is it that time of the week already?


----------



## 3venflow

Dynamite finished third on cable yesterday behind college basketball and the penultimate edition of Challenge.


----------



## ProjectGargano

This should have been really better...i know that thing of West Coast is not helping but they almost lost 400k from that 1,2M episodes some months ago.


----------



## 3venflow

Regarding the west coast thing, just add 7% as a rule to get a 'real' number - that still leaves it below a million.

As usual, the network/AEW won't be bothered so much by xx,000 people not tuning in, but more bothered at going back down to 0.31 in the 18-49, which while cable top five worthy is well below the heights of 0.48 they got to earlier this year. The higher that number, the more leverage they'll have to get more $$$ at the next renewal. They were beating RAW briefly in that, but not anymore.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

LifeInCattleClass said:


> (Shhh… I’m spying on these Dub Drones for the chief! Don’t blow my cover!)



You aiming to beat Big Show for most face/heel turns in a 2 week span or something?


----------



## The XL 2

They need a real world champion and a real main event scene. Guys like the Bucks, Adam Cole, and Hangman will do it for the hardcores, but lapsed fans who grew up on Hogan, Rock, Austin, Cena, Batista are going to need something else. Get Wil Hobbs or Wardlow hot, bump the Bucks down the card. Darby is small but has a lot of charisma, he can be their Jeff Hardy. But they have to do something, shuffle the deck.


----------



## CovidFan

The Legit DMD said:


> *That's a 37k drop from Thanksgiving week. I wonder what the EXCUSES will be this time.*


Week after Black Friday Christmas shopping.


----------



## ProjectGargano

Is it Hangman? Will this drop influence the result of Winter is Coming? Would Bryan as World Champion increase the ratings?


----------



## Dr. Middy

Not a good number after Thanksgiving. 

At this point, you need to shake some things up, and I'd honestly change the title and have Bryan win at Winter is Coming. You can have him run through a bunch of guys eventually building to Omega's return where you can have a babyface Kenny and Bryan do their rematch, but with the title on the line. I like Hangman, but I never saw him as a long term title holder, and I think his work right now is quite inferior to Bryan's.


----------



## RainmakerV2

No one ever gave a shit about Hangman Page.


----------



## fabi1982

ProjectGargano said:


> Is it Hangman? Will this drop influence the result of Winter is Coming? Would Bryan as World Champion increase the ratings?


Probably, his character atm is great!!


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

* This is why I kept the same energy since Bryan's debut. Hangman was never a good choice to be champion with him around. "Long term storytelling" isn't worth your obvious top guy playing second fiddle to a glorified mid carder surrounded by jobbers. *


----------



## bdon

Prosper said:


> You mean we can't get away with this in 2021? I think they can do it, Jungle Boy and Anna Jay


“Pro wrestling” according to some…


----------



## bdon

Hangman was always a place holder.


----------



## La Parka

AEW has really dropped the ball with Bryan and Punk. They brought them down to their level instead of having Bryan and Punk elevate them


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

La Parka said:


> AEW has really dropped the ball with Bryan and Punk. They brought them down to their level instead of having Bryan and Punk elevate them


*But La Parka, we were told that Bryan wrestling the Dark Order for a month straight and Punk fighting random jobbers on Rampage would be perfectly fine and have no long term negative effect on ratings. *


----------



## DammitChrist

Adam Page has NO business losing that AEW World title right now.

Besides, he's losing that world championship to MJF anyway.



The Legit DMD said:


> * This is why I kept the same energy since Bryan's debut. Hangman was never a good choice to be champion with him around. "Long term storytelling" isn't worth your obvious top guy playing second fiddle to a glorified mid carder surrounded by jobbers. *


Gee, I'm not surprised that you've become fickle with Adam Page since you were hyped over him not too long ago.

Besides, nobody else cares about you "keeping the same energy." 



RainmakerV2 said:


> No one ever gave a shit about Hangman Page.


That All Out crowd a few weeks ago, the wrestling audience since late 2019, AND that pop Page received last night in Atlanta, Georgia says otherwise. That's a very laughable remark on your part.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *But La Parka, we were told that Bryan wrestling the Dark Order for a month straight and Punk fighting random jobbers on Rampage would be perfectly fine and have no long term negative effect on ratings. *


It's going to be hilarious when ratings inevitably increase while they continue what they're doing, and you'll just be proven wrong once again


----------



## yeahright2

Ratings are in -Not impressive.

AEW Ratings prediction game
None of us expected it to be that low, but still @La Parka took the win. Congrats to him 

It is like I´ve said.. Too many top stars in long, competitive matches with jobbers and rookies.

And @LifeInCattleClass : The fans have spoken in regards to Cody, accept your loss 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> ha! guess the ratings will tell us how the haters turned the channel in droves during this match then


----------



## yeahright2

@LifeInCattleClass No, I don´t know the quarters yet, but the overall is down, and Cody was maineventing. Case closed.. Bryan and Punk opened the show, and they´re the big draws.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> @LifeInCattleClass No, I don´t know the quarters yet, but the overall is down, and Cody was maineventing. Case closed.. Bryan and Punk opened the show, and they´re the big draws.


dude, you can’t say anything until we see the quarters - what if punk / bryan is lower then the cody segment?


----------



## La Parka

The Legit DMD said:


> *But La Parka, we were told that Bryan wrestling the Dark Order for a month straight and Punk fighting random jobbers on Rampage would be perfectly fine and have no long term negative effect on ratings. *


Cmon, this is the best Bryan has ever been!

Forget Bryan destroying Bray Wyatt in front of a crowd all chanting yes, we all remember his classic with colt Cabana


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> dude, you can’t say anything until we see the quarters - what if punk / bryan is lower then the cody segment?


That´s not happening. Punk/Bryan always tops their quarters (to the best of my knowledge). Besides, The main event was advertised, and it resulted in fewer viewers than even a thanksgiving episode. Andrade is boring and Cody is disliked, even in his own town, so..


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

La Parka said:


> Cmon, this is the best Bryan has ever been!
> 
> Forget Bryan destroying Bray Wyatt in front of a crowd all chanting yes, we all remember his classic with colt Cabana


*Character wise, they aren't wrong, but his match booking is utter shit. AEW and WWE have opposite problems. WWE runs rematches into the ground, which devalues marquee match-ups. AEW puts their stars on weekly television against the lowest tier of jobber in competitive 15 minute matches through breaks, which devalues the star, because it isn't special to go 15 minutes with CM Punk when some clown straight out of wrestling school who lives on AEW Dark can do it.*


----------



## DUSTY 74

For Fun does Anyone got comparisons numbers for first couple weeks of World title reigns for Hangman, Omega, Mox, & Jericho


----------



## USAUSA1

Aew doesn't take themselves seriously and that's the problem. ROH at it height at least had the SERIOUS factor. AEW never had that.


----------



## yeahright2

DUSTY 74 said:


> For Fun does Anyone got comparisons numbers for first couple weeks of World title reigns for Hangman, Omega, & Mox


How about Jericho?


----------



## The XL 2

La Parka said:


> AEW has really dropped the ball with Bryan and Punk. They brought them down to their level instead of having Bryan and Punk elevate them


With all due respect to them, Punk and Bryan were never huge draws. Bryan had a few month run as a draw working with huge stars like Batista and Triple H in a program that was very reality based and the fans knew it. Outside of that small run, he's never really drawn. I think Bryan is really talented, but he was never some huge star.


----------



## La Parka

I’ve actually enjoyed Hangman as champ but this involvement with the dork order is so bad that it taints what could otherwise be a decent Bryan/ hangman feud.


----------



## 3venflow

DUSTY 74 said:


> For Fun does Anyone got comparisons numbers for first couple weeks of World title reigns for Hangman, Omega, Mox, & Jericho


Dynamite didn't exist when Jericho won the title and started over a month later but the first two Dynamites did 1.4m (0.68) and 1.14m (0.51). The others:

Moxley: 906,000 (0.35), 766,000 (0.26)
Omega: 995,000 (0.45), 806,000 (0.32)
Hangman: 984,000 (0.34), 898,000 (0.31)

Of course, judging a product's ratings by who holds the belt isn't really accurate and is a pretty linear way of looking at things. Otherwise, Jinder Mahal is a bigger draw than Roman Reigns since Smackdown did bigger numbers with him as champion (but that ignores fewer people watching live TV year on year, etc.).


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

yeahright2 said:


> That´s not happening. Punk/Bryan always tops their quarters (to the best of my knowledge). Besides, The main event was advertised, and it resulted in fewer viewers than even a thanksgiving episode. Andrade is boring and Cody is disliked, even in his own town, so..


the main event wasn’t advertised

at least i never saw ‘cody v Andrade is main eventing’


----------



## DUSTY 74

yeahright2 said:


> How about Jericho?


Dynamite didn’t air for another month after his winning the title but we can use it for fun anyways as its basically the same thing


----------



## DUSTY 74

Jericho wins title 8/31/19
10/2 dynamite debuts 1409000 / .48
10/9 1018000 / .46
10/16 1014000 / .44

Mox wins title 2/29/20
3/4. 906000 / .35
3/11. 766000 / .26
3/18. 932000. / .35

Kenny Wins title 12/2/20
12/19. 995000 / .45
12/16 806000. / .32
12/23. 775000. / .32 

Hangman wins 11/31/21
11/17. 984000 / .37
11/24. 898000. / .31
12/1. 861000. / .31


----------



## Borko

Time to put the title on the biggest star in the company, Bryan Danielson.


----------



## DUSTY 74

3venflow said:


> Dynamite didn't exist when Jericho won the title and started over a month later but the first two Dynamites did 1.4m (0.68) and 1.14m (0.51). The others:
> 
> Moxley: 906,000 (0.35), 766,000 (0.26)
> Omega: 995,000 (0.45), 806,000 (0.32)
> Hangman: 984,000 (0.34), 898,000 (0.31)
> 
> Of course, judging a product's ratings by who holds the belt isn't really accurate and is a pretty linear way of looking at things. Otherwise, Jinder Mahal is a bigger draw than Roman Reigns since Smackdown did bigger numbers with him as champion (but that ignores fewer people watching live TV year on year, etc.).


Right and thx for the quick data upload so my point more so wasn’t just comparing each other but seeing if any were building momentum as the new champion bringing any new interest
similarly I’d be curious to do the same thing w Jinder and or Roman within there own vacuum of there own Title runs


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Bryan having the title right now wouldn't really matter, since he's been in the title picture since the Page feud began. Might've had a small impact if they went with him instead of Page, but I doubt they'd be seeing a million each week anyway.

They are up from a couple years ago, and while down from last year same week, last year was the Winter is Coming special.

Page being champion isn't helping things, but it's not a disaster either. Rampage is a disaster, Dynamite though has simply fallen back into pre-Punk numbers, which is a bad thing, but not outright horrible.


----------



## cai1981

861k and drawing almost 40k less than the "Thanksgiving Eve" episode...AND drawing less a week after what some were calling the best promo segment of all time! That is not good. 

The Indy formula will not get them further than they are now. They HAVE to learn how to present themselves as a big league promotion. That CAN be done without losing their identity as "the wrestling company".


----------



## DUSTY 74

Well technically when you consider the other three former Champs held there Titles during the Wednesday Night Wars
Also Hangman arguably has not only the strongest possible contender right out of the gate
and Easily the Best AEW Roster to Date alongside him coming out of the shoot …… eh


----------



## 3venflow

DUSTY 74 said:


> similarly I’d be curious to do the same thing w Jinder and or Roman within there own vacuum of there own Title runs


Mahal's first three Smackdowns:


2,328,000
2,350,000
2,349,000

Roman's:


2,129,000
2,329,000
2,037,000

And this is the danger of looking at ratings without context. Mahal wasn't a bigger deal than Reigns is but he outdrew him in total viewership on Smackdown so if some people stand by their narrow logic, Mahal was a bigger star than Reigns.

In reality, you have to look a lot deeper than that, such as getting the data on how many people watched network TV live in 2017 compared to 2021. In cable terms at least, it's an 8% fall every year since Dynamite started (which also affects RAW).


----------



## yeahright2

3venflow said:


> Mahal's first three Smackdowns:
> 
> 
> 2,328,000
> 2,350,000
> 2,349,000
> 
> Roman's:
> 
> 
> 2,129,000
> 2,329,000
> 2,037,000
> 
> And this is the danger of looking at ratings without context. Mahal wasn't a bigger deal than Reigns is but he outdrew him in total viewership on Smackdown so if some people stand to their narrow logic, Mahal was a bigger star than Reigns.
> 
> In reality, you have to look a lot deeper than that, such as getting the data on how many people watched network TV live in 2017 compared to 2021. In cable terms at least, it's a 8% fall every year since Dynamite started (which also affects RAW).


The problem, especially with WWE isn´t who the champion is -The title is just a prop. But rather who gets most TV time, and who has the best storyline. And that wasn´t Jinder if I remember correctly (plus, he sucked)


----------



## Joe Gill

RainmakerV2 said:


> No one ever gave a shit about Hangman Page.


only the hardcore fans care who watch all the youtube shit and follow the subtle references, To a casual fan or to fans like me he is a undeserving champ. He barely wrestled any matches in 2021, took time off... spent half his camera time doing stupid skits with dork order and was involved in a disjointed storyline with omega that dragged on way too long with too many breaks in between. If TK doesnt get his head out of his ass soon only the super hardcore fans will be left. Maybe 400-500k viewers this time next year. 
The show needs focus and extended feuds with dq finishes and drama. Not this rotating bs of predictable jobber matches and feuds that just end abruptly.


----------



## DUSTY 74

3venflow said:


> Mahal's first three Smackdowns:
> 
> 
> 2,328,000
> 2,350,000
> 2,349,000
> 
> Roman's:
> 
> 
> 2,129,000
> 2,329,000
> 2,037,000
> 
> And this is the danger of looking at ratings without context. Mahal wasn't a bigger deal than Reigns is but he outdrew him in total viewership on Smackdown so if some people stand by their narrow logic, Mahal was a bigger star than Reigns.
> 
> In reality, you have to look a lot deeper than that, such as getting the data on how many people watched network TV live in 2017 compared to 2021. In cable terms at least, it's an 8% fall every year since Dynamite started (which also affects RAW).


I’m well aware of how to analyze it but good points for those who may not consider those things and Great statistical quick draw skills partner 🤠😉

i also didn’t mean to drop it in this particular thread lol / but i do think a thread on this very subject across different champions might be a fun endeavor and point of interest


----------



## Geert Wilders

The shows have been no bueno. Lio Rush, Dante Martin, Gunn club, square head guy, dark order all getting storylines 

hangman page hasn’t done his job as a world champion either.


----------



## holy

cai1981 said:


> 861k and drawing almost 40k less than the "Thanksgiving Eve" episode...AND drawing less a week *after what some were calling the best promo segment of all time! That is not good.*
> 
> The Indy formula will not get them further than they are now. They HAVE to learn how to present themselves as a big league promotion. That CAN be done without losing their identity as "the wrestling company".


Yeah, it seems that segment hasn't done anything to attract casuals.

A good friend of mine is now a casual fan, even though as recently as Wrestlemania this year we were discussing the show match-by-match through texting while watching it.

I told him to check out the Punk-MJF segment, as well as what Edge said on Raw in reference to that segment.

My friend's immediate response was literally "oh shit". That's exactly what he wrote to me. Realizing that he gave such a lame response, he then added (about a minute later) "they're taking shots at eachother now, huh?"


----------



## 3venflow

yeahright2 said:


> The problem, especially with WWE isn´t who the champion is -The title is just a prop. But rather who gets most TV time, and who has the best storyline. And that wasn´t Jinder if I remember correctly (plus, he sucked)


Well, Roman gets the most TV time so is that a damning indicment about him or are people going to acknowledge how the TV industry and ratings are changing year on year? And it just struck me that SD was on cable until 2019, so available in fewer homes than it is now yet was outdrawing what it does now.

AEW isn't a promotion where the champion is the be-all and end-all either. It's probably one of the most spread out products in history in terms of giving different wrestlers a piece of the pie. The champions don't even have much screen time and you certainly don't get them pacing around backstage in multiple segments. So attributing blame or credit to who has the belt isn't really accurate.


----------



## DUSTY 74

3venflow said:


> Well, Roman gets the most TV time so is that a damning indicment about him or are people going to acknowledge how the TV industry and ratings are changing year on year? And it just struck me that SD was on cable until 2019, so available in fewer homes than it is now yet was outdrawing what it does now.
> 
> AEW isn't a promotion where the champion is the be-all and end-all either. It's probably one of the most spread out products in history in terms of giving different wrestlers a piece of the pie. The champions don't even have much screen time and you certainly don't get them pacing around backstage in multiple segments. So attributing blame or credit to who has the belt isn't really accurate.


Yeah first thing that hit me reading those ratings was Jinder wasn’t Champ on 🦊


----------



## DUSTY 74

And of course PPV numbers will play into this as well


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Sheesh that's a bad number, not looking good for TV ratings over the past month or two.


----------



## DammitChrist

3venflow said:


> Mahal's first three Smackdowns:
> 
> 
> 2,328,000
> 2,350,000
> 2,349,000
> 
> Roman's:
> 
> 
> 2,129,000
> 2,329,000
> 2,037,000
> 
> And this is the danger of looking at ratings without context. Mahal wasn't a bigger deal than Reigns is but he outdrew him in total viewership on Smackdown so if some people stand by their narrow logic, Mahal was a bigger star than Reigns.
> 
> In reality, you have to look a lot deeper than that, such as getting the data on how many people watched network TV live in 2017 compared to 2021. In cable terms at least, it's an 8% fall every year since Dynamite started (which also affects RAW).


That's weird. I thought the current Universal Champion was supposed to be a "big TV draw" 😂


----------



## RainmakerV2

I liked a lot of the early stuff they did because it broke the usual wrestling formula. Cody going up into the box and smashing the glass while Jericho desperately holds up his ticket in the isle way. The IC breaking Dustin's arm in the limo, the stuff they did in the football stadium during the pandemic, hell, I even liked the Cody limo ride everyone hated. They were trying stuff and going outside the box.

Now it's all very WWE style, match, promo, match, promo, match, promo, main event. Nothing out of the ordinary ever happens and nothing happens outside of the confines of the arena. It feels very samey each week. Why not let the Inner Circle visit ATTs gym and go fuck with them there, instead of Miro cutting these weird promos against a backboard or some white light, go to his house and let him showcase his mansion and his hot wife. Shit like that.

Also every match going 10 plus minutes with 15 2.9 kickouts is just draining and loses its effect after seeing it 40 times in one show.


----------



## NathanMayberry

I’ll never under estimate the booker of the years ability to lose viewers. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Sherlok4

Tony Khan needs a new surprise debut to bring those ratings back up 

He’s probably on the phone right now with Bray Wyatt and trying to convince him to bring the Wyatt Family into AEW

Could push the ratings up a couple weeks

Or maybe he’ll get desperate enough to call Ric Flair and set up a Four Horseman reunion, Malenko can be that fourth Horseman

Maybe Ric Flair vs Sting on TNT for the first time since 2001! Imagine the ratings…


----------



## validreasoning

The XL 2 said:


> With all due respect to them, Punk and Bryan were never huge draws. Bryan had a few month run as a draw working with huge stars like Batista and Triple H in a program that was very reality based and the fans knew it. Outside of that small run, he's never really drawn. I think Bryan is really talented, but he was never some huge star.


Hobbs or Wardlow will never come within 1/10th of being as over as Bryan or Punk were at peak though so why mention them earlier?


----------



## BroncoBuster3

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, you're completely wrong about the "excuses" (which is BEYOND overused by some folks who misinterpret its definition) since the awful time slot if a LEGITIMATE reason for the numbers.
> 
> By the way, Rampage is also a good wrestling show too; so you're also wrong here too
> 
> 
> 
> Except that Rampage is actually not a "failure," and the show is honestly really good 😂
> 
> What show are you even watching (since it's apparently not Rampage)?


I'm noticing everyone is always wrong when they say anything bad about AEW on here. Also your posts always consist of the same words, Nah, actually. 

Actually, I think you'll find it's quite average and when you give main eventers 20 minute matches against jobbers on Dynamite, then do similar type matches on Dark and attempt to do it again on Elevation, nobody gives a shit by the time Rampage rolls around. AEW have diluted their own market very quickly. Obviously the fanatics will watch everything, even I do and I'm getting less and less into AEW (probably all wrestling to be honest) as the weeks go on.


----------



## .christopher.

As I said, Hangman NEVER should've beat Omega. You wasted Omega's reign on a jabroni. What's worse is that, before that, you had Bryan wrestle him to a draw in a non title match which I said was dumb at the time, too.

Now, you've got a jabroni as your world champion who's surrounded by the absolute WORST stable ever, feuding with someone who couldn't beat the guy the champ just beat. Fucking brilliant.

Then you've got Punk. Sure, he's done good stuff recently with MJF & Kingston, but it doesn't matter now. They had the buzz and hype handed to them on a silver platter and they killed it by having him feud and wrestle with nobodies and jobbers for months.

Worst part is this shit was all obvious. I and some others said the booking of these two when they came in was counter productive. Get someone who as a clue in charge for fuck sake.


----------



## DammitChrist

.christopher. said:


> As I said, Hangman NEVER should've beat Omega. You wasted Omega's reign on a jabroni. What's worse is that, before that, you had Bryan wrestle him to a draw in a non title match which I said was dumb at the time, too.
> 
> Now, you've got a jabroni as your world champion who's surrounded by the absolute WORST stable ever, feuding with someone who couldn't beat the guy the champ just beat. Fucking brilliant.
> 
> Then you've got Punk. Sure, he's done good stuff recently with MJF & Kingston, but it doesn't matter now. They had the buzz and hype handed to them on a silver platter and they killed it by having him feud and wrestle with nobodies and jobbers for months.
> 
> Worst part is this shit was all obvious. I and some others said the booking of these two when they came in was counter productive. Get someone who as a clue in charge for fuck sake.


Nah, Adam Page being the one to dethrone Kenny Omega was absolutely the right call.

You don't piss off the wrestling audience by robbing them off a satisfying conclusion/payoff to a GREAT 2-year long storyline.

The Dark Order is underappreciated, and Bryan Danielson is where he belongs on the card atm


----------



## BroncoBuster3

DammitChrist said:


> Nah, Adam Page being the one to dethrone Kenny Omega was absolutely the right call.
> 
> You don't piss off the wrestling audience by robbing them off a satisfying conclusion/payoff to a GREAT 2-year long storyline.
> 
> The Dark Order is underappreciated, and Bryan Danielson is where he belongs on the card atm


You just say things and act like they are true without any actual substantiated evidence or proof. 

Nah, actually The Dark Order sucks. Nah, Danielson should have rolled them in one night, actually @thumbsupemoji


----------



## DammitChrist

BroncoBuster3 said:


> You just say things and act like they are true without any actual substantiated evidence or proof.
> 
> Nah, actually The Dark Order sucks. Nah, Danielson should have rolled them in one night, actually @thumbsupemoji


How is an Elite storyline that technically started as early as All Out 2019 (with the Young Bucks refusing to walk out to support Adam Page in his match against Chris Jericho for the AEW World title), and DOZENS of AEW events this year where Dark Order consistently come out to loud positive crowd reactions "NOT" enough proof for you?

Of course, they're true.

You just want me to be sour too.


----------



## The XL 2

validreasoning said:


> Hobbs or Wardlow will never come within 1/10th of being as over as Bryan or Punk were at peak though so why mention them earlier?


And how would you know that? They're not even pushed.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466599783888408583

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BroncoBuster3

DammitChrist said:


> How is an Elite storyline that technically started as early as All Out 2019 (with the Young Bucks refusing to walk out to support Adam Page in his match against Chris Jericho for the AEW World title), and DOZENS of AEW events this year where Dark Order consistently come out to loud positive crowd reactions "NOT" enough proof for you?
> 
> Of course, they're true.
> 
> You just want me to be sour too.


Just for fun, give me five examples of things that AEW fans don't pop for? Dark Order are not good.


----------



## DammitChrist

BroncoBuster3 said:


> Just for fun, *give me five examples of things that AEW fans don't pop for*? Dark Order are not good.


Alright, I'll be fair:

1. QT Marshall
2. Shawn Spears
3. HFO (anyone who isn't Matt Hardy)
4. Nyla Rose
5. Brian Cage


----------



## DammitChrist

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466599783888408583
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


CM Punk and Cody Rhodes doing well in the ratings this week is always very nice to see 

Kudos to MJF and Andrade El Idolo too for doing well interest-wise


----------



## Randy Lahey

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466599783888408583
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Their lead in was way low. That has to be the first time ever that the first 15 minutes of the show has the fewest viewers. I’ll chalk it up to an anomaly.

I think these numbers are floor for AEW.


----------



## DammitChrist

Yea, the quarterly numbers look way better than the average viewership.

That anomaly for the 1st quarter is pretty much what hurt them this week. 

I highly doubt it has anything to do with Adam Page and Bryan Danielson since both men generally perform well in the ratings.


----------



## Jammy

Unfortunate, but looks like Hangman as champ vs Bryan isn't drawing. I can't draw a 100% conclusion but there are other signs of that from previous weeks viewership's and quarter hours.

Omega V Bryan was drawing big, they should have ran with that feud when it was hot or have Bryan and Punk involved together somehow to capitalize on the post All-Out buzz.

Only time will tell if Khan's insistence on "long term stories" etc will pay out versus booking the larger draws to increase your base in the short term then using that audience down the road.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

Hipster cowboy with no charisma and a squad of losers doesnt draw.


----------



## thorn123

For a good laugh, google most watched programs on tv.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

What's that I see? The highest quarter was filled with......promos??? Slap my ass and call me Sally, I thought all these wrestling purists wanted to just see long matches? Guess it proves what many have been saying since the Attitude Era....

The story and build is what draws viewers, not the matches. The story and build is what you use TV time for, to build up to the PPV where THEN the matches happen.


----------



## DammitChrist

CenaBoy4Life said:


> Hipster cowboy with no charisma and a squad of losers doesnt draw.


Yes, 1 of the most over babyfaces in the company who somehow managed to get crowds to cheer him over BRYAN DANIELSON has "no charisma."


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> What's that I see? The highest quarter was filled with......promos??? Slap my ass and call me Sally, I thought all these wrestling purists wanted to just see long matches? Guess it proves what many have been saying since the Attitude Era....
> 
> The story and build is what draws viewers, not the matches. The story and build is what you use TV time for, to build up to the PPV where THEN the matches happen.


What on Earth are you even talking about?

That quarter STILL had the last few minutes of CM Punk's match with Lee Moriarty, and the 2nd highest quarter was the Street Fight with Andrade El Idolo vs Cody Rhodes (which came fairly close to matching the highest rated quarter).

One of AEW's highest rated quarters in its short history was that Elimination match between Adam Page/Dark Order vs The Elite earlier this year at around 1.4 million viewers.

Wrestling matches generally tend to draw better than segments/promos in AEW at least 80% of the time. The promo segments for the CM Punk vs MJF storyline is somewhat of an anomaly since it's widely considered to be a dream feud that's highly anticipated by various wrestling fans today.

Your irrational hatred for workrate continues to be a weird opposition.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

DammitChrist said:


> Your irrational hatred for workrate continues to be a weird opposition.


Your irrational hatred for basic reading comprehension continues to be a weird opposition.


----------



## DammitChrist

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Your irrational hatred for basic reading comprehension continues to be a weird opposition.


Hey, just make sure to avoid the ppvs since they're pretty much 95% wrestling matches/workrate 

Anyway, that random remark still doesn't change what I said about matches generally drawing better than promos/segments most of the time.


----------



## zorori

Jammy said:


> Unfortunate, but looks like Hangman as champ vs Bryan isn't drawing. I can't draw a 100% conclusion but there are other signs of that from previous weeks viewership's and quarter hours.


Its not a problem of those involved, but the booking. Bryan is a star, but him vs Dark Order is boring. Each outcome has been predictable and despite Bryan's ability I started to tune out. The same goes for the Punk match.

Idk why Khan won’t involve multiple guys in the title scene at once. Cole should ditch the OC story (say the Bucks are enough) and get involved in the next match. Bryan can still win cleanly, but if another ME is interfering then it becomes a must see. You can explain it anyway you want: Cole wanting to beat Hangman (since Kenny couldnt) not Bryan so he’s wearing him down; he could just randomly hate Bryan; feels he should have a title match, etc.

Punk would’ve been better off fighting someone from the factory. Even though they suck, they could at least hit him on the outside, pull the ref out the ring, etc. You could still run MJFs angle of struggling with jobbers

I am not saying I want inteference in each match, but if it’s a lopsided bout end it quickly or add a twist if it has to go long. Otherwsie people will tune out...


----------



## Mister Sinister

The mainstream doesn't care about Adam Page or MJF. The chosen ones have fallen flat. The show hasn't done the job of attracting a million new viewers in the last year to expose any of these young talents to the broader population. They mean nothing to the mainstream audience.

The company has to come to an understanding that you have to build the product first. You have to put the belt on Bryan Danielson, you have to deliver stories and you have to have a reason to tune in next week every episode, and after you build a million new viewers, then the mainstream will notice when you try to elevate someone to Danielson's level.

*It's completely backwards to put the title on Adam Page and expect that to make him a star before he then loses to Danielson. What does it do for Danielson? It's not big accomplishment for Danielson. Page is just in the way of his destiny. And once Page loses, it craters his momentum as the chosen one.*


----------



## DammitChrist

Mister Sinister said:


> The mainstream doesn't care about Adam Page or MJF. The chosen ones have fallen flat. The show hasn't done the job of attracting a million new viewers in the last year to expose any of these young talents to the broader population. They mean nothing to the mainstream audience.
> 
> The company has to come to an understanding that you have to build the product first. You have to put the belt on Bryan Danielson, you have to deliver stories and you have to have a reason to tune in next week every episode, and after you build a million new viewers, then the mainstream will notice when you try to elevate someone to Danielson's level.
> 
> *It's completely backwards to put the title on Adam Page and expect that to make him a star before he then loses to Danielson. What does it do for Danielson? It's not big accomplishment for Danielson. Page is just in the way of his destiny. And once Page loses, it craters his momentum as the chosen one.*


Adam Page is LOSING that AEW World title to MJF later in early 2022.

He's NOT losing it in a couple of weeks against Bryan Danielson.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

I hate to say I told you all so but I told you all so.

Putting the belt on Hangman Page to appease a couple hundred thousand smarks who have been jerking off to the long term storytelling of "Mah Kenny and Mah Hangman" was never the right call.


----------



## BroncoBuster3

DammitChrist said:


> Yes, 1 of the most over babyfaces in the company who somehow managed to get crowds to cheer him over BRYAN DANIELSON has "no charisma."


That had absolutely nothing to do with Hangman. Danielson was cheered and then booed before Hangman could even say a word. And I am a fan of Hangman. You're proving very quickly that you don't like to have honest discussions on here.


----------



## Not Lying

Bad that they lost on the holiday but they’ll bounce back as they closer to WIC.

They need Moxley back asap too. 🤷‍♂️ 
He was their biggest draw before Punk and Bryan, he has a dedicated following, and they fucked him over the past 6 months. Hopefully he returns in legit feuds.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466599783888408583
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


….. @yeahright2


----------



## sideon

DammitChrist said:


> Yea, the quarterly numbers look way better than the average viewership.
> 
> That anomaly for the 1st quarter is pretty much what hurt them this week.
> 
> I highly doubt it has anything to do with Adam Page and Bryan Danielson since both men generally perform well in the ratings.


HAHAHAHAHA, Boy it must be exhausting continually deluding yourself into think these are great numbers. Even the west coast excuse has been debunked. this is what they are and if Warnermedia is fine with it then cool but I don't think Khan would be begging people to watch every week if they were.


----------



## ThunderNitro

If AEW doesn't begin to consistently draw ratings within the 1.1-1.4 range they are never going to convince guys like Disco Inferno that their product is worth supporting.


----------



## Garty

ThunderNitro said:


> If AEW doesn't begin to consistently draw ratings within the 1.1-1.4 range they are never going to convince guys like Disco Inferno that their product is worth supporting.


My guy, if AEW has to convince Disco Inferno about the legitimacy of what they do and how they do things, then hell, they may as well shut down right now. Taking advice from Disco Inferno...


----------



## Don Draper's Ghost

BroncoBuster3 said:


> I'm noticing everyone is always wrong when they say anything bad about AEW on here. Also your posts always consist of the same words, Nah, actually.
> 
> Actually, I think you'll find it's quite average and when you give main eventers 20 minute matches against jobbers on Dynamite, then do similar type matches on Dark and attempt to do it again on Elevation, nobody gives a shit by the time Rampage rolls around. AEW have diluted their own market very quickly. Obviously the fanatics will watch everything, even I do and I'm getting less and less into AEW (probably all wrestling to be honest) as the weeks go on.


Don't forget his beyond obnoxious abuse of the thumbs up and happy face emojis when responding to any AEW criticism. You could say you don't like the shade of yellow the E is in the logo and he'd reply with "nah, it's actually the best shade of yellow and the best logo in the history of the world "

If it was up to him saying anything bad about the Dub would be a bannable offense.


----------



## god guy

BroncoBuster3 said:


> You just say things and act like they are true without any actual substantiated evidence or proof.
> 
> Nah, actually The Dark Order sucks. Nah, Danielson should have rolled them in one night, actually @thumbsupemoji


yeah, I also noticed this in my short time here, he's literally everywhere and has literally the same autistic forced phony ''joyous'' tone of posts,he's probably autistic,at least seems that way,poor guy
( I don't mean that as offense,just an obvious objective fact,normal people don't behave and post that way)

either that (being on spectrum) or he's extremely rude and sociopathic,because he insults everyone,most of the time in sneaky pathetically annoying way ''nah, you're wrong, you don't know what you're talking about and I do'' etc,or even straight out yelling insults at people,like'' you're awful!'' etc, it's amazing he hasn't been banned because of that (that's why I'm leaning towards first option,that mods are somehow familiar with his..condition and are letting him shit all over this forum and its users for this reason,out of pity) .. either way he's very..awkward,unpleasant and sad individual obviously,hope he gets some help


----------



## god guy

btw awesome ratings,probably the highest one yet,dynamite continues to deliver and prove that it's the best wrestling show atm


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ….. @yeahright2


People obviously like Andrade..


----------



## Erik.

Quarters are pretty consistent. 

Though that first quarter start. Woof. I assume that's the Western market struggling to get home in time from work to tune in for 5pm.

Also interesting that for two weeks in a row now, the highest rated quarter was mostly promos. That's actually rare for AEW who usually has their matches do better ratings. 

I guess the ONLY positive you can take from the ratings, which are poor this week, is that it was number 3 on the night. 

Apparently they done REALLY well in Canada though which is nice - now go and book a show there.


----------



## DammitChrist

Don Draper's Ghost said:


> Don't forget his beyond obnoxious abuse of the thumbs up and happy face emojis when responding to any AEW criticism. You could say you don't like the shade of yellow the E is in the logo and he'd reply with "nah, it's actually the best shade of yellow and the best logo in the history of the world "
> 
> If it was up to him saying anything bad about the Dub would be a bannable offense.


Hey, it's not my fault that you'd rather derail this thread by making this about me when I'm just discussing about the ratings for this week. Anyway, I'm not interested in pleasing someone like you (especially about the emoticons) since I don't get the impression that you're reasonable about the ratings whatsoever. I'll just keep being rational in spite of your rant here.



sideon said:


> HAHAHAHAHA, Boy it must be exhausting continually deluding yourself into think these are great numbers. Even the west coast excuse has been debunked. this is what they are and if Warnermedia is fine with it then cool but I don't think Khan would be begging people to watch every week if they were.


I just love how you decided to obnoxiously laugh at my expense after seeing how the rest of the quarterly numbers (outside of the 1st quarterly number) look better than the average viewership number overall. It'll be beautiful to see them continue to grow in the long-term to prove you wrong about their "low ceiling."

For the record, the West Coast situation is *not* an "excuse" at all. It's a perfectly valid explanation that's impacting a whole BUNCH of viewers in that time zone.



god guy said:


> yeah, I also noticed this in my short time here, he's literally everywhere and has literally the same autistic forced phony ''joyous'' tone of posts,he's probably autistic,at least seems that way,poor guy
> ( I don't mean that as offense,just an obvious objective fact,normal people don't behave and post that way)
> 
> either that (being on spectrum) or he's extremely rude and sociopathic,because he insults everyone,most of the time in sneaky pathetically annoying way ''nah, you're wrong, you don't know what you're talking about and I do'' etc,or even straight out yelling insults at people,like'' you're awful!'' etc, it's amazing he hasn't been banned because of that (that's why I'm leaning towards first option,that mods are somehow familiar with his..condition and are letting him shit all over this forum and its users for this reason,out of pity) .. either way he's very..awkward,unpleasant and sad individual obviously,hope he gets some help


This dude basically just created a account recently just to rant about me being "autistic." Zip your lid, 'm8.'


----------



## DaSlacker

It's very bizarre how they've so quickly dropped 200,000-250,000 viewers. I hear the criticisms on here and most are valid arguments. In reality none of that explains why they'd drop that suddenly after boosting the roster immeasurably. Particularly in the autumn/winter months, when more people are indoors. The momentum was on their side. A sizeable downward trajectory takes several months to a couple of years. 

I'm not judging until they get on TBS and any timezone issue is fixed. 

If it's still low or significantly lower come March, then Tony needs to have a serious look at his product. He might need, for example: a booking team, a writing team, add DQs and count outs, a very promo heavy direction, recurring segments, shorter and more matches each show, soap opera style format, Lucha Underground style stuff. It depends. Though balancing any changes with trying to keep the core audience happy... Not so easy.


----------



## 3venflow

Time to tour Canada.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466760813448871940


----------



## god guy

Erik. said:


> Quarters are pretty consistent.
> 
> Though that first quarter start. Woof. I assume that's the Western market struggling to get home in time from work to tune in for 5pm.
> 
> Also interesting that for two weeks in a row now, the highest rated quarter was mostly promos. That's actually rare for AEW who usually has their matches do better ratings.
> 
> I guess the ONLY positive you can take from the ratings, which are poor this week, is that it was number 3 on the night.
> 
> Apparently they done REALLY well in Canada though which is nice - now go and book a show there.


yes,very strange,because as we all know, wrestling is the most important part about professional wrestling,not some lame promos,so called ''charisma'' (which is just a buzzword that doesn't mean anything) and stuff like that,for example the most popular and watched era,attitude era,was very wrestling-oriented,featuring workrate guys like the rock,scsa etc,while those charismatic promo-cutting jabronis like dean malenko,lance storm etc very exactly what they should have been-jobbers, because noone wants to see a WRESTLER talking,just,you know,WRESTLING, the name says it all



DammitChrist said:


> Hey, it's not my fault that you'd rather derail this thread by making this about me when I'm just discussing about the ratings for this week. Anyway, I'm not interested in pleasing someone like you (especially about the emoticons) since I don't get the impression that you're reasonable about the ratings whatsoever. I'll just keep being rational in spite of your rant here.
> 
> 
> 
> I just love how you decided to obnoxiously laugh at my expense after seeing how the rest of the quarterly numbers (outside of the 1st quarterly number) look better than the average viewership number overall. It'll be beautiful to see them continue to grow in the long-term to prove you wrong about their "low ceiling."
> 
> For the record, the West Coast situation is *not* an "excuse" at all. It's a perfectly valid explanation that's impacting a whole BUNCH of viewers in that time zone.
> 
> 
> 
> This dude basically just created a account recently just to rant about me being "autistic." Zip your lid, 'm8.'


yes, you are the epitome of rational on here and in general. your posts literally SCREAM rational,mature,well-taught,original etc,and not, dunno,childish,irrational,spiteful etc. I applaud you good sir.keep up the good rational work!


----------



## Erik.

god guy said:


> yes,very strange,because as we all know, wrestling is the most important part about professional wrestling,not some lame promos,so called ''charisma'' (which is just a buzzword that doesn't mean anything) and stuff like that,for example the most popular and watched era,attitude era,was very wrestling-oriented,featuring workrate guys like the rock,scsa etc,while those charismatic promo-cutting jabronis like dean malenko,lance storm etc very exactly what they should have been-jobbers, because noone wants to see a WRESTLER talking,just,you know,WRESTLING, the name says it all


Glad you agree.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466599783888408583
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*There you have it folks. We've reached the point where Bryan Danielson is in the lowest rated segment. I hope this puts a nail in the coffin of those awful star vs Jobber justifications. *


----------



## Erik.

Genuine question, I've never lived in America.

When does work finish?

Is it 5pm?

Also, there's been so much data thrown about but does anyone have any data about where the shows are actually watched from on cable across America?


----------



## Joe Gill

3venflow said:


> Time to tour Canada.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466760813448871940


im not surprised by this..bret hart was is an icon/hero up here...and CM Punk and Daniel Bryan are the closest to modern day Bret Harts in the business today....when they joined aew it was a big deal in canada.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Erik. said:


> Genuine question, I've never lived in America.
> 
> When does work finish?
> 
> Is it 5pm?


*I used to live in San Diego. Most people aren't home by 5 because they're sitting in traffic. We've seen them hit 900k+ since the West Coast time slot change, so that's not the entire issue, but it has an impact.*


----------



## Garty

The Legit DMD said:


> *I used to live in San Diego. Most people aren't home by 5 because they're sitting in traffic. We've seen them hit 900k+ since the West Coast time slot change, so that's not the entire issue, but it has an impact.*


It is the entire issue, which, of course, will impact their ratings. As much as 100,000 - 150,000 each week since. Added on to any random week since the change, you're looking at an average of 1 million + a week.

When the show moves to TBS and it goes back to the 8PM Pacific timeslot, you'll see the immediate jump. However, you can throw out the first week on TBS ratings due to the channel and time switch happening simultaneously. Once things are settled with the west coast, that should be the only ratings we talk about going forward.

Speaking of which, @Firefromthegods it would be a good idea to create a new AEW ratings thread once these changes all take place. It's about time to retire this one anyway.


----------



## MEMS

Announce Punk vs Page opening next week to open the show. They will be back up to a million. Khan needs to embrace the stars he’s got and cut it out with the dorks. I understand he wants to reward loyalty but normal fans are excited about this dream roster. It’s huge, start using guys. I am a HUGE Adam Cole fan. I’m a HUGE Malakai fan. I’m just not juiced up to see them vs OC and Cody. Give me Cole vs Jericho. Black vs PAC. Punk vs Page.


----------



## MEMS

god guy said:


> btw awesome ratings,probably the highest one yet,dynamite continues to deliver and prove that it's the best wrestling show atm


You should avoid insulting others intellect right before posting something this stupid. I know you were trying to be funny/sarcastic but you failed miserably.


----------



## Erik.

The Legit DMD said:


> *I used to live in San Diego. Most people aren't home by 5 because they're sitting in traffic. We've seen them hit 900k+ since the West Coast time slot change, so that's not the entire issue, but it has an impact.*


Thanks.

I just think it's probably an effect when the show is starting at 5pm and only leading with the number it did - I'd say the majority of those that'd watch in the West Coast are on their way home from work at the time the show is starting.

So by the time they get back, we're either 30 minutes into the show or half way in and they are starting their Dynamite watching on delay via DVR etc.

It probably doesn't help that you put Bryan/Hangman and Punk/MJF as the two openers to your show though - everyone was bound to tune in for that and then leave afterwards knowing the rest of the card and Cody being in the main event.

Whilst I enjoyed Dynamite this week, it was a weaker episode and to be honest, it was pretty much the same as last weeks event. You had Bryan in a squash match against a Dark Order member, you had Punk in a match with someone he should be beating and MJF/Punk promo, a competitive TBS tournament match and a Cody Rhodes main event.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Erik. said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I just think it's probably an effect when the show is starting at 5pm and only leading with the number it did - I'd say the majority of those that'd watch in the West Coast are on their way home from work at the time the show is starting.
> 
> So by the time they get back, we're either 30 minutes into the show or half way in and they are starting their Dynamite watching on delay via DVR etc.
> 
> It probably doesn't help that you put Bryan/Hangman and Punk/MJF as the two openers to your show though - everyone was bound to tune in for that and then leave afterwards knowing the rest of the card and Cody being in the main event.


*Punk/MJF peaked the show though. Some here theorized that late night spikes came from the West Coasters getting home, but we really didn't see another spike until it was time to hate watch Cody in the main event (I didn't).*


----------



## MEMS

I hate to say it,but AEW might benefit from having a heel authority figure. Tony doesn’t seem right for it. That’s a winning story if you’ve got the right guys involved.


----------



## Erik.

The Legit DMD said:


> *Punk/MJF peaked the show though. Some here theorized that late night spikes came from the West Coasters getting home, but we really didn't see another spike until it was time to hate watch Cody in the main event (I didn't).*


But there's no guarantee West Coasters are coming home to simply switch the show on live. Otherwise you'd think there'd be a much larger skew in the second hour than there is in the first hour every week. Unless they don't have many west coast viewers. But without the data provided, that's a theory.

They could quite easily be DVR'ing to watch from the beginning when they get home from work.


----------



## god guy

MEMS said:


> You should avoid insulting others intellect right before posting something this stupid. I know you were trying to be funny/sarcastic but you failed miserably.


 I wasn't being funny nor sarcanistic, I was being truthful, just stating facts,what's your problem?


----------



## MEMS

god guy said:


> I wasn't being funny nor sarcanistic, I was being truthful, just stating facts,what's your problem?


“Awesome ratings, probably the highest one yet”

Truthful?


----------



## god guy

MEMS said:


> “Awesome ratings, probably the highest one yet”
> 
> Truthful?


ok, I may have went a bit overboard out of joy,they probably aren't THE highest but they are still pretty good and consistent


----------



## ProjectGargano

MEMS said:


> Announce Punk vs Page opening next week to open the show. They will be back up to a million. Khan needs to embrace the stars he’s got and cut it out with the dorks. I understand he wants to reward loyalty but normal fans are excited about this dream roster. It’s huge, start using guys. I am a HUGE Adam Cole fan. I’m a HUGE Malakai fan. I’m just not juiced up to see them vs OC and Cody. Give me Cole vs Jericho. Black vs PAC. Punk vs Page.


Why would he waste that match without any build? Lmao


----------



## MEMS

ProjectGargano said:


> Why would he waste that match without any build? Lmao


People want to see these stars working against each other. Not every match needs a slow build.


----------



## ProjectGargano

MEMS said:


> People want to see these stars working against each other. Not every match needs a slow build.


2 faces against each other on a random Dynamite? Wtf. That would be hot shotting.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

MEMS said:


> I hate to say it,but AEW might benefit from having a heel authority figure. Tony doesn’t seem right for it. That’s a winning story if you’ve got the right guys involved.


Please no. I've seen enough of that to last a lifetime. Though if I HAD to pick somebody I think giving Shane Douglas a shot could be fun. I'm honestly surprised they haven't brought him in yet to be a manager or something due to Tony loving ECW.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Erik. said:


> But there's no guarantee West Coasters are coming home to simply switch the show on live. Otherwise you'd think there'd be a much larger skew in the second hour than there is in the first hour every week. Unless they don't have many west coast viewers. But without the data provided, that's a theory.
> 
> They could quite easily be DVR'ing to watch from the beginning when they get home from work.


*Right, which is another reason I disagree with that theory.*


----------



## holy

Someone can find Meltzer's tweet, but I remember him saying on Twitter that the West Coast move only results in 7-10% loss of viewership for the night.


----------



## bdon

Erik. said:


> But there's no guarantee West Coasters are coming home to simply switch the show on live. Otherwise you'd think there'd be a much larger skew in the second hour than there is in the first hour every week. Unless they don't have many west coast viewers. But without the data provided, that's a theory.
> 
> They could quite easily be DVR'ing to watch from the beginning when they get home from work.


When I have to miss a portion of the show, I choose to simply not watch live and wait for the On-Demand option to pop on my DirecTV app.


DaSlacker said:


> If it's still low or significantly lower come March, then Tony needs to have a serious look at his product. He might need, for example: a booking team, a writing team, add DQs and count outs, a very promo heavy direction, recurring segments, shorter and more matches each show, soap opera style format, Lucha Underground style stuff. It depends. Though balancing any changes with trying to keep the core audience happy... Not so easy


I’ll be out if that’s the course of action they take. I don’t want a better version of WWE. I want a better version of ProWrestling.


----------



## Erik.

bdon said:


> When I have to miss a portion of the show, I choose to simply not watch live and wait for the On-Demand option to pop on my DirecTV app.


Yeah, I thought as much.

You won't be the only one.


----------



## Kishido

They beat NXT again! Awesome


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Kishido said:


> They beat NXT again! Awesome


Yay!


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Kishido said:


> They beat NXT again! Awesome


Unfortunately they lost to an episode of WCW Saturday Night in 2000. It's over, bros. Time to pack it up.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

GNKenny said:


> Unfortunately they lost to an episode of WCW Saturday Night in 2000. It's over, bros. Time to pack it up.


That's some damn good shit.


----------



## 3venflow

TK said last week's show was the most watched Dynamite in a long time with DVR numbers.

_*"We have a great audience right now,"*_ Khan said on Busted Open Radio. _*"People get so caught up in micro-trends. I'll give you a great example; there were a lot of people out for Thanksgiving Eve, so for Dynamite, I was getting the DVR numbers back and the Thanksgiving Eve episode, a lot of people were out and we did a great audience. It was by far the biggest audience we've done on Thanksgiving Eve. It was our biggest live audience yet. It was quite as big as some of the other audiences because of the holiday. I got the DVR numbers back and it was the most-watched episode, when you factor in the DVR, in a long time. With that +7, the Thanksgiving Eve episode was a huge, huge, huge success. A lot of times, people get so caught up in these trends. The show this week finished third on cable. That's massive for us. Anytime we finish that high, everyone is really happy and our share was really good for the night. There are tons of people growing up on AEW."*_ 









Tony Khan Says Thanksgiving Eve AEW Dynamite Was 'Most Watched In A long Time' With DVR Numbers | Fightful News


Tony Khan talks AEW viewership trends.




www.fightful.com


----------



## DaSlacker

GNKenny said:


> Unfortunately they lost to an episode of WCW Saturday Night in 2000. It's over, bros. Time to pack it up.


😂 


If you want get more depressed at where things are, each week Raw is losing to 2009 ECW 😲 

And Smackdown on network TV is doing only a bit better than TNA 2011 numbers. 🤯


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> TK said last week's show was the most watched Dynamite in a long time with DVR numbers.
> 
> _*"We have a great audience right now,"*_ Khan said on Busted Open Radio. _*"People get so caught up in micro-trends. I'll give you a great example; there were a lot of people out for Thanksgiving Eve, so for Dynamite, I was getting the DVR numbers back and the Thanksgiving Eve episode, a lot of people were out and we did a great audience. It was by far the biggest audience we've done on Thanksgiving Eve. It was our biggest live audience yet. It was quite as big as some of the other audiences because of the holiday. I got the DVR numbers back and it was the most-watched episode, when you factor in the DVR, in a long time. With that +7, the Thanksgiving Eve episode was a huge, huge, huge success. A lot of times, people get so caught up in these trends. The show this week finished third on cable. That's massive for us. Anytime we finish that high, everyone is really happy and our share was really good for the night. There are tons of people growing up on AEW."*_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tony Khan Says Thanksgiving Eve AEW Dynamite Was 'Most Watched In A long Time' With DVR Numbers | Fightful News
> 
> 
> Tony Khan talks AEW viewership trends.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.fightful.com


this‘ll make them come out of the woodwork mate


----------



## NathanMayberry

Joe Gill said:


> im not surprised by this..bret hart was is an icon/hero up here...and CM Punk and Daniel Bryan are the closest to modern day Bret Harts in the business today....when they joined aew it was a big deal in canada.


Big deal for who?


----------



## NathanMayberry

Garty said:


> It is the entire issue, which, of course, will impact their ratings. As much as 100,000 - 150,000 each week since. Added on to any random week since the change, you're looking at an average of 1 million + a week.
> 
> When the show moves to TBS and it goes back to the 8PM Pacific timeslot, you'll see the immediate jump. However, you can throw out the first week on TBS ratings due to the channel and time switch happening simultaneously. Once things are settled with the west coast, that should be the only ratings we talk about going forward.
> 
> Speaking of which, @Firefromthegods it would be a good idea to create a new AEW ratings thread once these changes all take place. It's about time to retire this one anyway.


I'm saving this post for the future


----------



## Garty

NathanMayberry said:


> I'm saving this post for the future


Be my guest. 

Remember though, I can do the same.


----------



## CM Buck

Garty said:


> It is the entire issue, which, of course, will impact their ratings. As much as 100,000 - 150,000 each week since. Added on to any random week since the change, you're looking at an average of 1 million + a week.
> 
> When the show moves to TBS and it goes back to the 8PM Pacific timeslot, you'll see the immediate jump. However, you can throw out the first week on TBS ratings due to the channel and time switch happening simultaneously. Once things are settled with the west coast, that should be the only ratings we talk about going forward.
> 
> Speaking of which, @Firefromthegods it would be a good idea to create a new AEW ratings thread once these changes all take place. It's about time to retire this one anyway.


Tag me when that happens cause I'll forget


----------



## TheFiend666

TK now saying DVR numbers are doing great lmfao what a goof


----------



## TheFiend666

BroncoBuster3 said:


> You just say things and act like they are true without any actual substantiated evidence or proof.


That man just be saying anything to defend AEW at all cost. Embarrassing at this point


----------



## holy

3venflow said:


> TK said last week's show was the most watched Dynamite in a long time with DVR numbers.
> 
> _*"We have a great audience right now,"*_ Khan said on Busted Open Radio. _*"People get so caught up in micro-trends. I'll give you a great example; there were a lot of people out for Thanksgiving Eve, so for Dynamite, I was getting the DVR numbers back and the Thanksgiving Eve episode, a lot of people were out and we did a great audience. It was by far the biggest audience we've done on Thanksgiving Eve. It was our biggest live audience yet. It was quite as big as some of the other audiences because of the holiday. I got the DVR numbers back and it was the most-watched episode, when you factor in the DVR, in a long time. With that +7, the Thanksgiving Eve episode was a huge, huge, huge success. A lot of times, people get so caught up in these trends. The show this week finished third on cable. That's massive for us. Anytime we finish that high, everyone is really happy and our share was really good for the night. There are tons of people growing up on AEW."*_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tony Khan Says Thanksgiving Eve AEW Dynamite Was 'Most Watched In A long Time' With DVR Numbers | Fightful News
> 
> 
> Tony Khan talks AEW viewership trends.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.fightful.com


It's really apparent that Tony Khan doesn't believe there is any issue with Dynamite. If I had Punk and Bryan on my roster, there's no way I would be happy with going from around 1.3 million viewers straight to 800k.

Is he just trying to play it off and pretend there isn't a problem, or is he delusional?


----------



## Sherlok4

DVR numbers?


----------



## Klitschko

DammitChrist said:


> That's weird. I thought the current Universal Champion was supposed to be a "big TV draw" 😂


Apparently a bigger draw then Kenny Omega, Moxley, Hangman, Sting, Cody, Darby, Jericho, CM Punk, Bryan Danielson, Cody Rhodes, Black, Andrade, Pac, Baker combined though. You know since he gets about 3/4 of the show dedicated to him and they just got 2.1 million compared to AEW's 400 and 800k lol.


----------



## DammitChrist

Klitschko said:


> Apparently a bigger draw then Kenny Omega, Moxley, Hangman, Sting, Cody, Darby, Jericho, CM Punk, Bryan Danielson, Cody Rhodes, Black, Andrade, Pac, Baker combined though. You know since he gets about 3/4 of the show dedicated to him and they just got 2.1 million compared to AEW's 400 and 800k lol.


Apparently, Jinder Mahal is a bigger 'draw' than ALL of those names then (including the current Universal Champion), which is just as silly


----------



## Klitschko

DammitChrist said:


> Apparently, Jinder Mahal is a bigger 'draw' than ALL of those names then (including the current Universal Champion), which is just as silly


Dont you hinder Jinder buddy. I like Mahal so I could not give a smaller shit if someone wants to say that about him, especially since Mahal outdrew AJ Styles in ratings as champion too from what I remember lol.


----------



## 3venflow

WON: Ruby Soho vs. Kris Statlander was the high point for women 18-49, women 35-49 and tied for highest in women 18-34 on Dynamite.


----------



## 3venflow

Winter is Coming is at 93% of tickets sold and a $300,000+ gate, per WrestleTix. 500 tickets remain.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Winter is Coming is at 93% of tickets sold and a $300,000+ gate, per WrestleTix. 500 tickets remain.


hot ticket - 2 weeks away / will sell out


----------



## bdon

3venflow said:


> _*There are tons of people growing up on AEW."*_


All that really matters.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> All that really matters.


this.

kids and teens who watch with their parents become ‘households’ of their own in 5 to 10 yrs


----------



## the_flock

TheFiend666 said:


> TK now saying DVR numbers are doing great lmfao what a goof


Pure desperation at this point.


----------



## ElTerrible

3venflow said:


> WON: Ruby Soho vs. Kris Statlander was the high point for women 18-49, women 35-49 and tied for highest in women 18-34 on Dynamite.


People complain about this or that guy being misued. The worst treated wrestlers in AEW are Kris Statlander, Hikaru Shida and Riho. Statlander has a good gimmick, is probably the best female athlete in AEW alongside Tay Conti and they don´t give her sh*t. Fitting that she was the only seed that lost her first match.


----------



## god guy

ElTerrible said:


> People complain about this or that guy being misued. The worst treated wrestlers in AEW are Kris Statlander, Hikaru Shida and Riho. Statlander has a good gimmick, is probably the best female athlete in AEW alongside Tay Conti and they don´t give her sh*t. Fitting that she was the only seed that lost her first match.


good gimmick? what exactly is her gimmick?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> WON: Ruby Soho vs. Kris Statlander was the high point for women 18-49, women 35-49 and tied for highest in women 18-34 on Dynamite.


*It's about time they catered to those demographics.*


----------



## THANOS

The Legit DMD said:


> *There you have it folks. We've reached the point where Bryan Danielson is in the lowest rated segment. I hope this puts a nail in the coffin of those awful star vs Jobber justifications. *


Yep, pretty sad to see. It takes a lot to impact his drawing ability.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

THANOS said:


> Yep, pretty sad to see. It takes a lot to impact his drawing ability.


*I wouldn't want any real WWE stars to come here now. They'd have Roman wrestling Trent in the main event of Rampage for no reason. *


----------



## holy

The Legit DMD said:


> *I wouldn't want any real WWE stars to come here now. They'd have Roman wrestling Trent in the main event of Rampage for no reason. *


I fear what AEW would do with Lesnar as well, but Lesnar seems like the type of guy who would tell Khan "fuck off" and walk away when he sees fit.


----------



## Klitschko

The Legit DMD said:


> *I wouldn't want any real WWE stars to come here now. They'd have Roman wrestling Trent in the main event of Rampage for no reason. *


Don't forget the mandatory Team Tazz coming out to offer him a spot in their group randomly after the match.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

holy said:


> I fear what AEW would do with Lesnar as well, but Lesnar seems like the type of guy who would tell Khan "fuck off" and walk away when he sees fit.


*Imagine him telling Lesnar to go 15 minutes through a break with The Butcher.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Imagine him telling Lesnar to go 15 minutes through a break with The Butcher.*


the butcher is amazing, wash your mouth out!


----------



## 3venflow

Rampage fast national was 485k in the P2+ and 228k in the 18-49, which means it'll be up from last week. Last week's fast nationals were 403k in P2+ (finals: 431k) and 223k (finals: 0.18) in 18-49. So I'd guess around 515-520k for Friday's Rampage in total viewers.


----------



## god guy

The Legit DMD said:


> *I wouldn't want any real WWE stars to come here now. They'd have Roman wrestling Trent in the main event of Rampage for no reason. *


and that would still be a lot better than what he's currently doing on smackdown,boring everyone to tears and killing the ratings


----------



## Erik.

3venflow said:


> Rampage fast national was 485k in the P2+ and 228k in the 18-49, which means it'll be up from last week. Last week's fast nationals were 403k in P2+ (finals: 431k) and 223k (finals: 0.18) in 18-49. So I'd guess around 515-520k for Friday's Rampage in total viewers.


Tony Nese. The draw.


----------



## Chan Hung

The Legit DMD said:


> *Imagine him telling Lesnar to go 15 minutes through a break with The Butcher.*


That is EXACTLY what AEW would do. Bring in a monster like Brock and have him do 20 minutes with Matt Sydal! LMFAO!


----------



## InfamousGerald

Chan Hung said:


> That is EXACTLY what AEW would do. Bring in a monster like Brock and have him do 20 minutes with Matt Sydal! LMFAO!


I highly doubt they would do that


----------



## Erik.

Chan Hung said:


> That is EXACTLY what AEW would do. Bring in a monster like Brock and have him do 20 minutes with Matt Sydal! LMFAO!


Nothing we've seen from AEW tells us they would.

Mainly because they don't have anyone like Brock Lesnar on the roster - Wardlow, who isn't anywhere near Lesnar when it comes to power or aura, for example has barely had a match go over 3 minutes unless he's going up against someone who has a lot more experience to him and are bigger names (Cody, Hager etc). 

Which is absolutely the right decision when it comes to building up a powerhouse like Wardlow.


----------



## .christopher.

InfamousGerald said:


> I highly doubt they would do that





Erik. said:


> Nothing we've seen from AEW tells us they would.
> 
> Mainly because they don't have anyone like Brock Lesnar on the roster - Wardlow, who isn't anywhere near Lesnar when it comes to power or aura, for example has barely had a match go over 3 minutes unless he's going up against someone who has a lot more experience to him and are bigger names (Cody, Hager etc).
> 
> Which is absolutely the right decision when it comes to building up a powerhouse like Wardlow.


Yeah, nothing we've seen from AEW tells us they'd book a monster like that.

Wait, what's that? Oh, shush Miro! Go back to your room and finish playing Mario before bedtime. We don't want people remembering your escapades with the best friends and your match where you sold for Orange Cassidy.

_locks door with all the other monsters who've had competitive matches with jokes like Lance Archer and Nyla Rose_


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

the 'monster' squashing wrestler is the most boring wrestling trope ever

even Wardlow can't sustain it forever - its a good thing they don't have him out there every week

if people expected Lesnar (or Brian Cage for that matter) to run through the roster - well, you can leave that bullshit in the fed


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the 'monster' squashing wrestler is the most boring wrestling trope ever


Can't agree, brother. Sid Vicious squashing jobbers still rules.


----------



## DammitChrist

NathanMayberry said:


> Big deal for who?


Gee, I believe that was a big deal for the Canadian audience.



The Legit DMD said:


> *Punk being amused at getting near universal boos as a face while switching heel on the spot isn't comparable to the Dumb Fucks jacking off with aerosol cans for 20 minutes.*


Jeez, grow up already


----------



## DammitChrist

TheFiend666 said:


> That man just be saying anything to defend AEW at all cost. Embarrassing at this point


Nah, what’s actually embarrassing is you trying to pretend that the DVR numbers “don’t” matter too; but hey, by all means continue to be desperate in trying to get other fans to sour on something that’s actually entertaining 😂

Thankfully, you’ll stay embarrassed.


----------



## Curryfor3

The Legit DMD said:


> *Imagine him telling Lesnar to go 15 minutes through a break with The Butcher.*


A Lesnar/Butcher match could lowkey be a banger of a match, not gonna lie. Khan would probably have Lesnar wrestle Daniel Garcia in a 17-minute match to open Rampage tho lol.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

GNKenny said:


> Can't agree, brother. Sid Vicious squashing jobbers still rules.


… every week?


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

LifeInCattleClass said:


> … every week?


These days? No, wrestling's changed. There's still a place for them though.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

GNKenny said:


> These days? No, wrestling's changed. There's still a place for them though.


Course course - like Wardlow has been doing is fine

its sporadic and is over quick

but comparing to like what Umaga did - 2 months of weekly squashes…. Bleh!

and even Wardlow has to start having some matches


----------



## Erik.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the 'monster' squashing wrestler is the most boring wrestling trope ever
> 
> even Wardlow can't sustain it forever - its a good thing they don't have him out there every week
> 
> if people expected Lesnar (or Brian Cage for that matter) to run through the roster - well, you can leave that bullshit in the fed


To be fair - I quite like how they've booked Wardlow outside of his lack of TV time.

He's had 27 singles matches in AEW and only lost 4 of them.

Bare in mind the 4 were against Cody in his first ever match, future world champion Adam Page, Jake Hager in an MMA style match and a previous world champion in Chris Jericho.

But the squash matches have been really fun. I like his style in the ring, he's explosive. His moves look quite deadly too, especially the knee in the corner. 

The next step for Wardlow now is beating those above jobber level. So hopefully if he's in the battle royal on Wednesday, he has a stare down with a Lance Archer or a Brian Cage and goes over one of those big men in a small mini feud. (If not Brian Pillman Jr first like we've discussed before).


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> To be fair - I quite like how they've booked Wardlow outside of his lack of TV time.
> 
> He's had 27 singles matches in AEW and only lost 4 of them.
> 
> Bare in mind the 4 were against Cody in his first ever match, future world champion Adam Page, Jake Hager in an MMA style match and a previous world champion in Chris Jericho.
> 
> But the squash matches have been really fun. I like his style in the ring, he's explosive. His moves look quite deadly too, especially the knee in the corner.
> 
> The next step for Wardlow now is beating those above jobber level. So hopefully if he's in the battle royal on Wednesday, he has a stare down with a Lance Archer or a Brian Cage and goes over one of those big men in a small mini feud. (If not Brian Pillman Jr first like we've discussed before).


Yah, the way they have Wardlow do it, is admittedly fine

I just would not be onboard if he ‘ran through the roster’ on ’his way to the title’ - only to be overcome by Hangman Babyface Page at the end

y’know…. The Cena / WWE model of Monster heel.

those sorts of heels never get the heat back when they are defeated - they’ve already booked Wardlow different, giving him losses


----------



## Erik.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Yah, the way they have Wardlow do it, is admittedly fine
> 
> I just would not be onboard if he ‘ran through the roster’ on ’his way to the title’ - only to be overcome by Hangman Babyface Page at the end
> 
> y’know…. The Cena / WWE model of Monster heel.
> 
> those sorts of heels never get the heat back when they are defeated - they’ve already booked Wardlow different, giving him losses


If AEW have proven anything - they're not hot-shotting anyone.

Wardlow suddenly getting TV time tells me that something is planned for him. If he even touches the title, it won't be for another 3 years at least. In that time, they could quite easily build him up as a badass tweener who just wants to beat people up. If the crowd reacts to that in a positive way, THEN they may have something. This isn't the WWE where, regardless of crowd reaction, they're going to stick by someone because of a plan.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Curryfor3 said:


> Lesnar wrestle Daniel Garcia in a 17-minute match to open Rampage tho lol.


What are you talking about????

Garcia's the Rampage main eventer. He doesn't curtain jerk that show.


----------



## Klitschko

Khan: ok Brock, so 12 min in you start making your comeback when you hit a spinning 630 shooting star Meltzer driving suicide dive through the ropes on Garcia.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Klitschko said:


> Khan: ok Brock, so 12 min in you start making your comeback when you hit a spinning 630 shooting star Meltzer driving suicide dive through the ropes on Garcia.


Lesnar: Can I make it a 720, sir?


----------



## Wolf Mark

GNKenny said:


> Can't agree, brother. Sid Vicious squashing jobbers still rules.


What an intimidating bunch, Sid and Waylon Mercy. I would have kept together forever.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Wolf Mark said:


> What an intimidating bunch, Sid and Waylon Mercy. I would have kept together forever.


Sid was too charismatic to be tied to Spivey forever. The guy just had something, and it wasn't "talent", commitment, or a good attitude.


----------



## Wolf Mark

MonkasaurusRex said:


> Sid was too charismatic to be tied to Spivey forever. The guy just had something, and it wasn't "talent", commitment, or a good attitude.


Add a third guy and they could have invaded any promotions and do some damage though.


----------



## Randy Lahey

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the 'monster' squashing wrestler is the most boring wrestling trope ever
> 
> even Wardlow can't sustain it forever - its a good thing they don't have him out there every week
> 
> if people expected Lesnar (or Brian Cage for that matter) to run through the roster - well, you can leave that bullshit in the fed


I think having a guy like Miro destroy everyone would be very entertaining TV. It'd bring back Goldberg in WCW vibes. So in certain areas, with certain guys, you can infact build up a star by having them squash everyone.

It just means the guy they use to eventually beat that person, is worthy of getting the rub and becoming a star themselves


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Randy Lahey said:


> I think having a guy like Miro destroy everyone would be very entertaining TV. It'd bring back Goldberg in WCW vibes. So in certain areas, with certain guys, you can infact build up a star by having them squash everyone.
> 
> It just means the guy they use to eventually beat that person, is worthy of getting the rub and becoming a star themselves


ehhh... I dunno mate

i just hate that - because the next week you have to watch the guy who got squashed face somebody else / and now he has to look good again

like, if Miro smashed Danielson, Punk, Cody and Pac on his way to facing Hangman, who defeats him

is Hangman really better off? Is Miro?

definitely not Danielson, Punk, Cody and Pac


----------



## Randy Lahey

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ehhh... I dunno mate
> 
> i just hate that - because the next week you have to watch the guy who got squashed face somebody else / and now he has to look good again
> 
> like, if Miro smashed Danielson, Punk, Cody and Pac on his way to facing Hangman, who defeats him
> 
> is Hangman really better off? Is Miro?
> 
> definitely not Danielson, Punk, Cody and Pac


You'd have to give the rub to someone that it truly benefits (not a Kevin Nash type that was already over when he beat Goldberg). So the way I'd do it is have Miro destroy everyone, he's this unstoppable force, and you tell the story of David/Goliath with the guy that eventually beats him. For me, I'd use Jungle Boy.

Miro beats everyone, he's the champion, and then finally it's Jungle Boy that beats him. That IMO would make Jungle Boy into a legit main eventer.

I agree that it wouldn't help guys already over like BD, Punk, or even Hangman to beat Miro. I also think if those guys were to lose to Miro its not going to hurt them either bc they already are so over. But for Miro, going over other legit main event guys would make him stronger. I'm just not a fan of wasting "breaking a streak" type of moments on guys already over. So thats why'd I'd use JungleBoy. I would not want it to be a Lesnar/Undertaker situation where nobody really comes out any better than what they went in with


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Randy Lahey said:


> You'd have to give the rub to someone that it truly benefits (not a Kevin Nash type that was already over when he beat Goldberg). So the way I'd do it is have Miro destroy everyone, he's this unstoppable force, and you tell the story of David/Goliath with the guy that eventually beats him. For me, I'd use Jungle Boy.
> 
> Miro beats everyone, he's the champion, and then finally it's Jungle Boy that beats him. That IMO would make Jungle Boy into a legit main eventer.
> 
> I agree that it wouldn't help guys already over like BD, Punk, or even Hangman to beat Miro. I also think if those guys were to lose to Miro its not going to hurt them either bc they already are so over. But for Miro, going over other legit main event guys would make him stronger. I'm just not a fan of wasting "breaking a streak" type of moments on guys already over. So thats why'd I'd use JungleBoy. I would not want it to be a Lesnar/Undertaker situation where nobody really comes out any better than what they went in with


i can live with that - they kind did that with Sammy / Miro to a degree


----------



## Erik.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1467558664412311563
Wish we could see how much they get on FITE


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1467558664412311563
> Wish we could see how much they get on FITE


hence the picture in picture ads

full circle - Picture in Picture ads is worth something


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ehhh... I dunno mate
> 
> i just hate that - because the next week you have to watch the guy who got squashed face somebody else / and now he has to look good again
> 
> like, if Miro smashed Danielson, Punk, Cody and Pac on his way to facing Hangman, who defeats him
> 
> is Hangman really better off? Is Miro?
> 
> definitely not Danielson, Punk, Cody and Pac


It helps to have a plethora of random bodies for someone to squash at your disposal like WCW had for Goldberg. You can run through guys like Jerry Flynn, Bobby Blaze, and Mark Starr because counting the lights is their job. If you don't have anyone who you can designate specifically as enhancement talent the weekly squash will never work because like you said the next week the person who got squashed has to wrestle someone.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1467693836373835777
*lol*


----------



## Garty

The Legit DMD said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1467693836373835777
> *lol*


What an ingenious twat tweet. Anyone who thinks his signing is for ratings, is as stupid as the entire tweet itself.


His signing would be purely to reform, in some capacity, the Undisputed Era and tag up with Bobby Fish to reform ReDragon. My guess, is that this will be the split of Cole away from The Elite, leaving only Omega and The Bucks. Once Omega returns, it'll be the "new Undisputed Era" (Cole, Fish, O'reilly) vs The Eilte (Bucks, Omega).

The seeds were already been planted when Omega left to take time off. Long term booking.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1467693836373835777
> *lol*


Why am I not surprised that you found that ignorant tweet to be 'funny'?

Kyle O'Reilly joining AEW would add another great, credible tag team in reDRagon for the division.

He would also play a valuable part in the Elite's ongoing storyline.


----------



## omaroo

DammitChrist said:


> Why am I not surprised that you found that ignorant tweet to be 'funny'?
> 
> Kyle O'Reilly joining AEW would add another great, credible tag team in reDRagon for the division.
> 
> He would also play a valuable part in the Elite's ongoing storyline.


He's a troll more than anything and tries to be funny but is quite cringy quite honestly.

He should just carry on worshiping the charisma vaccum that is roman reigns.


----------



## RoganJosh

omaroo said:


> He's a troll more than anything and tries to be funny but is quite cringy quite honestly.
> 
> He should just carry on worshiping the charisma vaccum that is roman reigns.


Yes, if you guys are curious as to what @The Legit DMD looks like head over to the pictures thread.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Garty said:


> What an ingenious twat tweet. Anyone who thinks his signing is for ratings, is as stupid as the entire tweet itself.
> 
> 
> His signing would be purely to reform, in some capacity, the Undisputed Era and tag up with Bobby Fish to reform ReDragon. My guess, is that this will be the split of Cole away from The Elite, leaving only Omega and The Bucks. Once Omega returns, it'll be the "new Undisputed Era" (Cole, Fish, O'reilly) vs The Eilte (Bucks, Omega).
> 
> The seeds were already been planted when Omega left to take time off. Long term booking.



Why do they wanna reform a stable from WWEs developmental which they constantly made fun of beating in viewership?


----------



## Kishido

Awesome numbers! Dat Demo!


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RainmakerV2 said:


> Why do they wanna reform a stable from WWEs developmental which they constantly made fun of beating in viewership?


*They'd celebrate a Jinder Mahal signing to "stick it to WWE."*


----------



## 3venflow

Long Island this week is now at nearly 9,100 tickets sold.


----------



## 3venflow

Rampage ratings

Viewership: 499,000
18-49: 0.18

Up from 431,000 / 0.18 last week but still below anything before that.

The final rating didn't go up from the fast nationals as much as usual (it would've been 515k-ish if it had).


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1467961104244649986


----------



## 3venflow

Cable top 50 with Rampage in 16th, which is fine but they have been much higher in the past.

I thought it was a great show but the numbers are not going up for it. Lowest ever demo was 0.17 on October 8th, lowest viewership was 431k on November 26th.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Rampage ratings
> 
> Viewership: 499,000
> 18-49: 0.18
> 
> Up from 431,000 / 0.18 last week but still below anything before that.
> 
> The final rating didn't go up from the fast nationals as much as usual (it would've been 515k-ish if it had).


ah, growth by almost 70,000 new people

love to see it


----------



## Garty

RainmakerV2 said:


> Why do they wanna reform a stable from WWEs developmental which they constantly made fun of beating in viewership?


Maybe because it was the most successful thing to come out of NXT over the previous three years. Undisputed Era was the focus of NXT for the majority of that time, meanwhile all of the call-ups to the main roster during that same time-frame either flopped, or were released from the company.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ah, growth by almost 70,000 new people
> 
> love to see it


 How is it new people if they average over 500k?

That's losing people not adding people. Anytime you are below your average number you are losing people.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

Garty said:


> Maybe because it was the most successful thing to come out of NXT over the previous three years. Undisputed Era was the focus of NXT for the majority of that time, meanwhile all of the call-ups to the main roster during that same time-frame either flopped, or were released from the company.


Sure they were successful in NXT but AEW constantly bragged about being better than NXT do why would you want to bring in a group that 8 months ago you were essentially saying couldn't leave the boots of guys in your company?

It's kind of like calling your friend's girlfriend a bitch and then asking her out when they break up.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

MonkasaurusRex said:


> How is it new people if they average over 500k?
> 
> That's losing people not adding people. Anytime you are below your average number you are losing people.


please don’t question my math

they did 430k last week, they did 499k this week - that surely must mean the company fanbase almost grew by 70k

if people don‘t want to hear ‘excuses’ like ‘thanksgiving’ and so on and so forth when it drops, then i don’t to hear people short-selling their growth


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

LifeInCattleClass said:


> please don’t question my math
> 
> they did 430k last week, they did 499k this week - that surely must mean the company fanbase almost grew by 70k
> 
> if people don‘t want to hear ‘excuses’ like ‘thanksgiving’ and so on and so forth when it drops, then i don’t to hear people short-selling their growth


I wasn't really questioning your math I was just trying to be nice by not calling it flat out wrong.

The truth is if your average is 518k(I don't know if that's the average for Rampage) and your show just drew 499k that's 19k viewers that usually watch your show that didn't watch this week. That's regression not growth.


----------



## yeahright2

Ratings are in
(shameless plug for the ratings game)
AEW Ratings prediction game

It was up from the week before, but they´re far from Punk debut numbers. Still, I suppose Tony´s media PR worked, so good for him to rally up some fans


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

MonkasaurusRex said:


> I wasn't really questioning your math I was just trying to be nice by not calling it flat out wrong.
> 
> The truth is if your average is 518k(I don't know if that's the average for Rampage) and your show just drew 499k that's 19k viewers that usually watch your show that didn't watch this week. That's regression not growth.


i’m being facetious mate


----------



## CM Buck

RoganJosh banned for baiting. Knuckleheads if you want to correct @The Legit DMD about that tweet do this.

"DMD, No one with a working brain believes that Kyle oreilly is some huge ratings draw because he has the charisma of a coffee barista. They want him for the tag division. The only people who believe he is a viable singles wrestler have either not seen his roh singles run or are just greatly misinformed"

There's no need to be tribalist or try and get people to laugh at his face like your high school kids


----------



## CovidFan

Firefromthegods said:


> There's no need to be tribalist or try and get people to laugh at his face like your high school kids


How many people here have high school kids?


----------



## CM Buck

CovidFan said:


> How many people here have high school kids?


I messed up you're and your again.....God damn it


----------



## Garty

CovidFan said:


> How many people here have high school kids?


I think some of the users themselves are high school kids.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Firefromthegods said:


> RoganJosh banned for baiting. Knuckleheads if you want to correct @The Legit DMD about that tweet do this.
> 
> "DMD, No one with a working brain believes that Kyle oreilly is some huge ratings draw because he has the charisma of a coffee barista. They want him for the tag division. The only people who believe he is a viable singles wrestler have either not seen his roh singles run or are just greatly misinformed"
> 
> There's no need to be tribalist or try and get people to laugh at his face like your high school kids


*I'm fully aware of that, but still found the tweet funny because of how all those names are now doing WNW numbers. The Elite vs UE has a lot of potential. It's similar to the original storyline I wanted for Cole in overshadowing Omega to cause jealousy and division between the Elite. Now, he's just building his own sub-faction within the Elite, which can be great too.*


----------



## CM Buck

The Legit DMD said:


> *I'm fully aware of that, but still found the tweet funny because of how all those names are now doing WNW numbers. The Elite vs UE has a lot of potential. It's similar to the original storyline I wanted for Cole in overshadowing Omega to cause jealousy and division between the Elite. Now, he's just building his own sub-faction within the Elite, which can be great too.*


I was more providing an example of polite counter pointing. The fact you are looking forward to an elite vs UE feud makes me want to vomit. Not because it's your opinion. But because I'm bored of both factions at this point. 

If Cena and 2015 to 2019 Roman Reigns were factions they would be the elite and the UE


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Firefromthegods said:


> I was more providing an example of polite counter pointing. The fact you are looking forward to an elite vs UE feud makes me want to vomit. Not because it's your opinion. But because I'm bored of both factions at this point.
> 
> If Cena and 2015 to 2019 Roman Reigns were factions they would be the elite and the UE


*AEW definitely has a faction problem that we've both discussed in length here, but this feud would actually feel like it matters, in comparison to The Hardy Family Jobbers running in on EVERY Best Friends match for no reason, Malakai Black going 10 minutes with Nightmare Family trainees, and Bryan running a pointless Dark Order gauntlet.*


----------



## 3venflow

AEW hits Atlantic City, NJ for the first time in February:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1468264045924945921
This is the 10,000 capacity building they're running, the location where WM4 and WM5 were apparently.


----------



## DaSlacker

Wow, I always wondered where WM 4 and 5 actually emanated from. I knew they were credited to Trump's boardwalk resort in NJ. But kinda knew it had to be a separate arena. Didn't realise it was that small though - Trump must have thrown ridiculous cash at them. In 1988/1989 McMahon could have sold out any stadium he wanted to in the north east.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

3venflow said:


> AEW hits Atlantic City, NJ for the first time in February:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1468264045924945921
> This is the 10,000 capacity building they're running, the location where WM4 and WM5 were apparently.
> 
> View attachment 112885


That's a really cool looking venue.


----------



## Wolf Mark

Garty said:


> What an ingenious twat tweet. Anyone who thinks his signing is for ratings, is as stupid as the entire tweet itself.
> 
> 
> His signing would be purely to reform, in some capacity, the Undisputed Era and tag up with Bobby Fish to reform ReDragon. My guess, is that this will be the split of Cole away from The Elite, leaving only Omega and The Bucks. Once Omega returns, it'll be the "new Undisputed Era" (Cole, Fish, O'reilly) vs The Eilte (Bucks, Omega).
> 
> The seeds were already been planted when Omega left to take time off. Long term booking.


Yea I can see that. As soon as Cole is away from the Elite, the better.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Looks like everyone stopped giving a fuck after Sammy's match, which isn't surprising:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1468616110715150336
Rampage has a bunch of bullshit filler matches and they aren't doing anything to fix it.*


----------



## 3venflow

RAW did a record low 0.35 on Monday, a chance for AEW to beat it again after quite some time. However, it'd require a better number than the past two weeks (0.31) and all but one of the past five weeks for that matter.

Since the start of November, the P18-49 ratings for Dynamite have been: 0.33, 0.34, 0.37, 0.31, 0.31


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> RAW did a record low 0.35 on Monday, a chance for AEW to beat it again after quite some time. However, it'd require a better number than the past two weeks (0.31) and all but one of the past five weeks for that matter.
> 
> Since the start of November, the P18-49 ratings for Dynamite have been: 0.33, 0.34, 0.37, 0.31, 0.31


i think we’ll have to wait for TBS move to give them any sort of chance


----------



## RainmakerV2

3venflow said:


> AEW hits Atlantic City, NJ for the first time in February:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1468264045924945921
> This is the 10,000 capacity building they're running, the location where WM4 and WM5 were apparently.
> 
> View attachment 112885



Oh that's Trump Plaza now? Shhh don't tell their superfans what it once was named. You won't sell a ticket and their may be protests outside.


----------



## Wolf Mark

3venflow said:


> RAW did a record low 0.35 on Monday, a chance for AEW to beat it again after quite some time. However, it'd require a better number than the past two weeks (0.31) and all but one of the past five weeks for that matter.
> 
> Since the start of November, the P18-49 ratings for Dynamite have been: 0.33, 0.34, 0.37, 0.31, 0.31


These two companies are fighting for low expectations.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Wolf Mark said:


> These two companies are fighting for low expectations.


*The fact that people still compare this to the Monday Night Wars is embarrassing. *


----------



## Erik.

The Legit DMD said:


> *The fact that people still compare this to the Monday Night Wars is embarrassing. *


Literally no one compares this to the MNW.


----------



## Wolf Mark

The Legit DMD said:


> *The fact that people still compare this to the Monday Night Wars is embarrassing. *


pro wrestling right now I imagine two soldiers on the ground half dead saying to each other "we'll do it, brother, come on!"


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Erik. said:


> Literally no one compares this to the MNW.


*Keep lying to yourself. *


----------



## Joe Gill

This is a race to the bottom between raw and dynamite. At some point in the future cable tv will die...the next deal might be with a streaming service like hbo max or netflix. Its funny how 4 months ago everyone was talking about a renaissance for wrestling...the next boom period when in reality it was just a nostalgia bomb of cm punk, brock lesnar and john cena returning to the ring. Now the nostalgia buzz is gone and we are forced to accept that wrestling is still garbage overall with 2 delusional bookers running WWE and AEW. One is an old man who looks like he has a year or two left to live....and the other an indy mark trust fund kid who is hyper sensitive to any criticism.


----------



## Erik.

The Legit DMD said:


> *Keep lying to yourself. *


Provide proof.

Or don't. 

Until you do, you're the one chatting usual shit.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Erik. said:


> Provide proof.
> 
> Or don't.
> 
> Until you do, you're the one chatting usual shit.


* I don't know how many times you have to get proven wrong before you just give up, but I have no problem showing how wrong you are on a daily basis. One look at any of the Bishoff threads from the last couple months will show you plenty of people comparing this shit show to the Monday night wars and and citing AEW as legitimate competition.








Eric Bischoff to Tony Khan and AEW: "Shut Up and...


On Eric Bischoff's recent episode of 83 weeks, he told Tony Khan and The AEW roster to "Shut the fuck up and wrestle." as the product should do the talking for them. He responded to Tony saying he won't make WCW's mistakes by saying he is INVENTING mistakes. He also jumped in front of the...




www.wrestlingforum.com




*


----------



## Erik.

The Legit DMD said:


> * I don't know how many times you have to get proven wrong before you just give up, but I have no problem showing how wrong you are on a daily basis. One look at any of the Bishoff threads from the last couple months will show you plenty of people comparing this shit show to the Monday night wars and and citing AEW as legitimate competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eric Bischoff to Tony Khan and AEW: "Shut Up and...
> 
> 
> On Eric Bischoff's recent episode of 83 weeks, he told Tony Khan and The AEW roster to "Shut the fuck up and wrestle." as the product should do the talking for them. He responded to Tony saying he won't make WCW's mistakes by saying he is INVENTING mistakes. He also jumped in front of the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wrestlingforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


You said "To think, some people STILL compare this to the Monday Night Wars"

And sent me a 2 month old thread lol

Quote me where anyone in that thread or anywhere on this forum within the last 2 months has compared this to the Monday Night Wars.

I'll wait.

And no, someone saying WWE are competing with AEW isn't them comparing this to the Monday Night Wars and I refuse to believe you're at retard level of comprehension.


----------



## yeahright2

The Legit DMD said:


> *Looks like everyone stopped giving a fuck after Sammy's match, which isn't surprising:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1468616110715150336
> Rampage has a bunch of bullshit filler matches and they aren't doing anything to fix it.*


Once again the Bucks segment tanks ratings. Tony should try and do a Cole segment without them and see if he really is this big star.


----------



## 3venflow

Bit of a stretch to blame the Bucks who were on screen for less than a minute in a taped promo. What about the match before it which had an entrance, squash and aftermath with Thunder Rosa and Jade?


----------



## Erik.

yeahright2 said:


> Once again the Bucks segment tanks ratings. Tony should try and do a Cole segment without them and see if he really is this big star.


Or Jade Cargill tanked ratings.... 

Who knows, huh?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

yeahright2 said:


> Once again the Bucks segment tanks ratings. Tony should try and do a Cole segment without them and see if he really is this big star.


*Jade's match was useless too and you know she's one of my faves here. We should be beyond squashing randoms at this point. She needs to be a special attraction in the women's division for big matches only. Hopefully that changes when she's TBS Champion. *


----------



## yeahright2

3venflow said:


> Bit of a stretch to blame the Bucks who were on screen for less than a minute in a taped promo. What about the match before it which had an entrance, squash and aftermath with Thunder Rosa and Jade?


Whomever is supposed to be the biggest name of the quarter should logically stand for success or failure of that part of the show.


----------



## 3venflow

Last night was the biggest drawing Dynamite since Grand Slam with approximately 9,538 fans. Apparently some people got turned away due to not having a vaccine card though.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Dynamite*

Viewership: 872,000
18-49: 0.33

Up from last week in both categories, only 0.02 behind RAW in the key demo.

It finished #5 on cable.


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## RapShepard

They're doing good still, but nuts to think they're doing under a million with all that talent. They really need a kick ass story.


----------



## ThunderNitro

AEW needs to sign Windham Rotunda and Kevin Steen as soon as possible to increase that rating back up to 1 million.


----------



## Geert Wilders

ThunderNitro said:


> AEW needs to sign Windham Rotunda and Kevin Steen as soon as possible to increase that rating back up to 1 million.


if punk and bryan cant do it, two fat guys in the least popular era of wrestling can't do it.

the product is visibly missing Moxley and Omega. the 2 biggest stars of AEW.


----------



## chronoxiong

I can't even watch it live on the west coast at 8pm PST anymore. It sucks.


----------



## The_Great_One21

They won’t go back up until they get off being LIVE on the West Coast. 5pm time slot is a killer. People will either still be at work, on their way home from work, or just home and have shit to do.

They’ll bounce back to 1m-1.2m zone when they move to TBS.


----------



## Prized Fighter

Geert Wilders said:


> if punk and bryan cant do it, two fat guys in the least popular era of wrestling can't do it.
> 
> the product is visibly missing Moxley and Omega. the 2 biggest stars of AEW.


Oddly enough, if Windham and Steen sign, it would be late Dec and early Jan. Right in line with the TBS debut and the west coast viewership going back to normal. The viewership will go up regardless.


----------



## yeahright2

Ratings for Dynamite are in
(obligatory shameless plug for the ratings game)
AEW Ratings prediction game

@Dr. Middy took the win, congratulations 

With the talent they have available, they should do better than this -I guess there´s just not enough interest in watching Bryan against comedy jobbers in long competitive matches... Or the Bucks doing every move ever created in every match.


----------



## iarwain

RapShepard said:


> They're doing good still, but nuts to think they're doing under a million with all that talent. They really need a kick ass story.


That's what I think. The wrestling is good What's missing is a good story (or stories) to engage the viewers. People need to have a reason to care about the matches. As opposed to "Oh, well now the champ is a babyface, so Bryan will have to be a heel now".


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

* They managed to do a worse demo than Raw's worst demo ever. It's crazy to think they were beating Raw several times in the demo just 2 months ago. Jericho's overall viewership prediction for January looks even more idiotic than it did back then.*


----------



## Erik.

Why am I not surprised the rating went up?

Riho vs Jamie Hayter was on the card.

Only wrestling show that's actually increased in viewership and demo this week, I believe.

TBS can't come soon enough.


----------



## The XL 2

RapShepard said:


> They're doing good still, but nuts to think they're doing under a million with all that talent. They really need a kick ass story.


That's the problem, though, they don't have that much talent. What smarks consider talent is very different than what the general public considers talent. These are the same people who complained about Rock, Austin and Goldberg while marking for Billy Kidman, Kaz Hayashi and Dean Malenko back in the late 90s. The Young Bucks are not talent. Adam Cole is not talent. Hangman Page is decent but not a world champion. Their is a big disconnect there.


----------



## 3venflow

They've equaled July's number in Garland a week out from Winter is Coming. Capacity is set at 5,980 and they might be able to squeeze a few more in, per WrestleTix. I feel like they should've done this show somewhere bigger to maximize the gate income, but they continue to do good numbers on the road. The Newark show has sold 7,200+ already and DC 3,500 (88% of available tix) - both are January events.


----------



## RapShepard

The XL 2 said:


> That's the problem, though, they don't have that much talent. What smarks consider talent is very different than what the general public considers talent. These are the same people who complained about Rock, Austin and Goldberg while marking for Billy Kidman, Kaz Hayashi and Dean Malenko back in the late 90s. The Young Bucks are not talent. Adam Cole is not talent. Hangman Page is decent but not a world champion. Their is a big disconnect there.


Lot of truth there on what's over in the bubble and what casuals care about


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Still under 900k? How many weeks in a row now is that?


----------



## Erik.

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Still under 900k? How many weeks in a row now is that?


I imagine the same amount of weeks it's been since the West Coast time slot changed.

How longs it been now, anyone?

Also worth noting that TV households have dropped 12% this year and about 8% last year. 

It's still pretty impressive that both WWE and AEW manage to get top 5 from all of their main wrestling shows.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

GNKenny said:


> Please no. I've seen enough of that to last a lifetime. Though if I HAD to pick somebody I think giving Shane Douglas a shot could be fun. I'm honestly surprised they haven't brought him in yet to be a manager or something due to Tony loving ECW.


This. Douglas would be awesome.



Erik. said:


> Nothing we've seen from AEW tells us they would.


Hmm...


















Erik. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1467558664412311563
> Wish we could see how much they get on FITE


This is getting embarrassing now.

First it was overall rating then it was demographic then it went back to overall then it went back to demographic then it went to the ratings in Canada then it went to the UK now its DVR numbers as people desperately try to give AEW a win.



Erik. said:


> You said "To think, some people STILL compare this to the Monday Night Wars"
> 
> And sent me a 2 month old thread lol
> 
> Quote me where anyone in that thread or anywhere on this forum within the last 2 months has compared this to the Monday Night Wars.
> 
> I'll wait.
> 
> And no, someone saying WWE are competing with AEW isn't them comparing this to the Monday Night Wars and I refuse to believe you're at retard level of comprehension.


I wouldn't be making challenges, big dog.

Remember when you challenged me to find you hating on CM Punk and then desperately back pedalled?


----------



## Curryfor3

Erik. said:


> I imagine the same amount of weeks it's been since the West Coast time slot changed.
> 
> How longs it been now, anyone?
> 
> Also worth noting that TV households have dropped 12% this year and about 8% last year.
> 
> *It's still pretty impressive that both WWE and AEW manage to get top 5 from all of their main wrestling shows.*


And at the end of the day, that's all that really matters.


----------



## Erik.

Curryfor3 said:


> And at the end of the day, that's all that really matters.


Certainly to TNT, USA and FOX!


----------



## DammitChrist

The XL 2 said:


> That's the problem, though, they don't have that much talent. What smarks consider talent is very different than what the general public considers talent. These are the same people who complained about Rock, Austin and Goldberg while marking for Billy Kidman, Kaz Hayashi and Dean Malenko back in the late 90s. The Young Bucks are not talent. Adam Cole is not talent. Hangman Page is decent but not a world champion. Their is a big disconnect there.


Yea, sorry man, but Adam Cole, Adam Page, and the Young Bucks ARE (good) talents


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1469130873006141446

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow




----------



## Randy Lahey

3venflow said:


> View attachment 112975


TK needs to just take all the women’s wrestling off the show.

18-49 don’t give a shit about it. That demo drop for Hayter Rio was huge

Clearly the Bucks match was a draw bc it gained viewers even with ad breaks


----------



## DammitChrist

Randy Lahey said:


> TK needs to just take all the women’s wrestling off the show.
> 
> 18-49 don’t give a shit about it. That demo drop for Hayter Rio was huge
> 
> Clearly the Bucks match was a draw bc it gained viewers even with ad breaks


That's weird. I thought the Young Bucks supposedly "tanks" the ratings.


----------



## DammitChrist

Anyway, the high quarterly ratings for the 1st half-hour is well deserved since that was probably the weirdest, and possibly the most hilarious 30 minutes to start off Dynamite in a long while.

Kudos to CM Punk and MJF for having a good week here


----------



## Prosper

The XL 2 said:


> That's the problem, though, they don't have that much talent. What smarks consider talent is very different than what the general public considers talent. These are the same people who complained about Rock, Austin and Goldberg while marking for Billy Kidman, Kaz Hayashi and Dean Malenko back in the late 90s. The Young Bucks are not talent. Adam Cole is not talent. Hangman Page is decent but not a world champion. Their is a big disconnect there.


Who would you consider a “good talent” in the modern era?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Lot of truth there on what's over in the bubble and what casuals care about


casuals care about Jake Paul and PewdiePie and Billie Eilish

therefore, they cannot be trusted and are better left alone


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Prosper said:


> Who would you consider a “good talent” in the modern era?


actually - name 20

cause you can't draw shit with one person


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> casuals care about Jake Paul and PewdiePie and Billie Eilish
> 
> therefore, they cannot be trusted and are better left alone


Got to appreciate the first 2 finding a way to make millions being random lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Got to appreciate the first 2 finding a way to make millions being random lol


i appreciate it, i applaud it, i laud it

i don't wanna fucking watch it


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i appreciate it, i applaud it, i laud it
> 
> i don't wanna fucking watch it


Yeah that's when I just realize my age, like that shit for the preteens


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Yeah that's when I just realize my age, like that shit for the preteens


to be fair... I kinda like every 4th or 5th Billie Eilish song

some of her stuff is not complete horseshit


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> to be fair... I kinda like every 4th or 5th Billie Eilish song
> 
> some of her stuff is not complete horseshit


I've never heard a song from her, I just know of her from Hot Ones


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> I've never heard a song from her, I just know of her from Hot Ones


lol - hot ones... now there is a cultural zeitgeist worth emulating

this is most likely her best - i like the dark tone


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol - hot ones... now there is a cultural zeitgeist worth emulating
> 
> this is most likely her best - i like the dark tone


Pretty cool I heard that on Big Mouth didn't know it was her. Definitely a song made for placements


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Pretty cool I heard that on Big Mouth didn't know it was her. Definitely a song made for placements


yeah, enough 'pop' to get playtime and traction / enough 'dark' to seem 'different' enough so that the millions and millions of tweens that listen to her can each feel special


----------



## RainmakerV2

MJF ruling the ratings as usual.


----------



## thorn123

Punk and Bryan are not big enough to move the needle much, no matter how they are booked. Sure there is an initial pop, but everyone must recognise that wouldn’t last. Both have been more than serviceable since joining. 

They just need one mega angle on the same level as the NWO angle. I say just … but that is close to impossible.


----------



## CovidFan

DaveRA said:


> Punk and Bryan are not big enough to move the needle much, no matter how they are booked. Sure there is an initial pop, but everyone must recognise that wouldn’t last. Both have been more than serviceable since joining.
> 
> They just need one mega angle on the same level as the NWO angle. I say just … but that is close to impossible.


West coast being live is killing a solid 400k viewers. Just tack that on and that's the real number


----------



## Mister Sinister

3venflow said:


> View attachment 112975


Here is the proof that the West Coast is not keeping them from a million viewers. When they had a match that viewers cared about (the Royal), nearly a million viewers watched. This should have been the main event. This is a central reason their ratings are slipping. They have to stop putting the best draws in the opening. If you put the best draw in the main event, it forces people to watch the whole show to get to the match they want to see.

Why is this match the best draw? The fans want Wardlow. The fans want Wardlow to win. *The fans want Wardlow to be the hero. This match had stakes. The stakes were miserably ass$#*%ed* and the trigger wasn't pulled of course. So the fans walked away bored and with no cares for the outcome.... so the fans turned it off.


----------



## Dark Emperor

3venflow said:


> View attachment 112975


Wow, A Daniel Bryan main event is actually the 2nd lowest quarter. This is a dude that singlehandedly got Dynamite their second biggest rating ever on his first appearance.

Now he's just another guy on the roster and being outdrawn by the likes of FTR. Sad to see.


----------



## validreasoning

Dark Emperor said:


> Wow, A Daniel Bryan main event is actually the 2nd lowest quarter. This is a dude that singlehandedly got Dynamite their second biggest rating ever on his first appearance.
> 
> Now he's just another guy on the roster and being outdrawn by the likes of FTR. Sad to see.


They put him on youtube ffs, they completely killed the dude

As you said 'just another guy' now.


----------



## .christopher.

People actually defended him facing jobbers every week. Page beating him will be the final nail in the coffin.

Tony Khan is a terrible, terrible booker. Absolutely atrocious.


----------



## AuthorOfPosts

A regular show of Dynamite just isn't going to interest anyone other than the small core audience. Tony Khan publicly begging every week isn't helping. Makes him look pathetic.


----------



## god guy

another huuuge,huge rating for the best wrestling company atm,kudos to them,this proves that tony is EXCELLENT booker, despite what his haters falsely claim  more d-bry vs jim silver,adam cole vs masked guy number 14 etc please


----------



## NathanMayberry

3venflow said:


> Last night was the biggest drawing Dynamite since Grand Slam with approximately 9,538 fans. Apparently some people got turned away due to not having a vaccine card though.
> 
> View attachment 112943


That is really interesting…


I really wonder if I should trust my eyes. 









Cuz this was supposed to be a near sold out show…

It’s interesting how the unvaccinated folks all bought tickets in the same section and knew to buy AEW tickets but didn’t know about the policy that has been in pretty much every venue in the state of New York for months. They can’t dine in without yet they somehow thought they could go to an AEW show without.. 

interesting 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ripcitydisciple

DaveRA said:


> Punk and Bryan are not big enough to move the needle much, no matter how they are booked. Sure there is an initial pop, but everyone must recognise that wouldn’t last. Both have been more than serviceable since joining.
> 
> They just need one mega angle on the same level as the NWO angle. I say just … but that is close to impossible.


It's never going to happen so stop thinking it will. The second AEW does a mega angle like the NWO, the E Drones on Twitter will rage about them copying WWE and thus no one will give a shit other than the people who already watch. AEW will never be given a genuine unbiased chance with the WWF/WWE institutionalized. 

NEVER.


----------



## thorn123

ripcitydisciple said:


> It's never going to happen so stop thinking it will. The second AEW does a mega angle like the NWO, the E Drones on Twitter will rage about them copying WWE and thus no one will give a shit other than the people who already watch. AEW will never be given a genuine unbiased chance with the WWF/WWE institutionalized.
> 
> NEVER.


I have been saying for a long time that its the fed fans and a lot of the lapsed fed fans that won’t give AEW a fair go - no matter the star power or the booking.


----------



## Erik.

For Canada In 18-34:
Smackdown on 11/26 did 19,000
Raw on 11/29 did 10,000
NXT on 11/30 did 10,000
Smackdown on 12/3 did 5,000
Main Event on 12/3 did 5,000
Raw on 12/6 did 17,000
NXT on 12/7 did 3,000

AEW Dynamite on 12/1 did 61,000.

Running shows in big Canadian markets like Toronto and Montreal should be their priority.


----------



## Erik.

NathanMayberry said:


> That is really interesting…
> 
> 
> I really wonder if I should trust my eyes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cuz this was supposed to be a near sold out show…
> 
> It’s interesting how the unvaccinated folks all bought tickets in the same section and knew to buy AEW tickets but didn’t know about the policy that has been in pretty much every venue in the state of New York for months. They can’t dine in without yet they somehow thought they could go to an AEW show without..
> 
> interesting
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You do realise that both WWE and AEW don't tend to open up tickets for the hard cam side, right? 

And when they do, they're usually the very very last seats that they open up?

You must try harder with the bait.


----------



## thorn123

Erik. said:


> You do realise that both WWE and AEW don't tend to open up tickets for the hard cam side, right?
> 
> And when they do, they're usually the very very last seats that they open up?
> 
> You must try harder with the bait.


Why don’t they play smaller venues? The live crowd would lack atmosphere if the hard cam side is empty (not that you can tell in AEW - to their credit)
But god willing, I one day get to an AEW show, I would rather a smaller venue packed to the rafters.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

DaveRA said:


> I have been saying for a long time that its the fed fans and a lot of the lapsed fed fans that won’t give AEW a fair go - no matter the star power or the booking.


It's amazing to me how Kaientai/ Val Venus or Naked Midian is some of the funniest television in wrestling to them yet Orange Cassidy doing light kicks to psych out his opponent or the Dark Order is the cringiest thing ever and doesn't belong in Pro Wrestling.


----------



## Erik.

DaveRA said:


> Why don’t they play smaller venues? The live crowd would lack atmosphere if the hard cam side is empty (not that you can tell in AEW - to their credit)
> But god willing, I one day get to an AEW show, I would rather a smaller venue packed to the rafters.


I do wonder if they wanted to see how they'd fare against Raw in the same arena.

But they don't always do 10,000+ seater stadiums (or allow for that much)

Next week for example on their TV special 'Winter is Coming' event - they're only set up for 5,980. And they've distributed 95% of those tickets.

Their show in Washington over a month away in January is only set up for 3,913 and they've sold 88% of those tickets so far etc.


----------



## 3venflow

They do run a lot of smaller buildings and get 80~100% attendances.

Anyway, AEW really needs to think about running Canada. From the WON via Reddit:

_For Canada In 18-34, Smackdown on 11/26 did 19,000, Raw on 11/29 did 10,000, NXT on 11/30 did 10,000, AEW Dynamite on 12/1 did 61,000, Smackdown on 12/3 did 5,000, Main Event on 12/3 did 5,000, Raw on 12/6 did 17,000 and NXT on 12/7 did 3,000. Dave notes the popularity of AEW in Canada with younger demos is huge compared to WWE and more than LA, the west coast etc running shows in big Canadian markets like Toronto and Montreal should be their priority._


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1469316755038294021

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

Edit: Wrong thread

But to stay on topic, AEW have added some new $30 tickets for Winter is Coming today. Capacity is now up to 6,180 with 5,669 (92%) sold. According to WrestleTix, they may be able to squeeze around 6,300 in as most.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

NathanMayberry said:


> That is really interesting…
> 
> 
> I really wonder if I should trust my eyes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cuz this was supposed to be a near sold out show…
> 
> It’s interesting how the unvaccinated folks all bought tickets in the same section and knew to buy AEW tickets but didn’t know about the policy that has been in pretty much every venue in the state of New York for months. They can’t dine in without yet they somehow thought they could go to an AEW show without..
> 
> interesting
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


LOL .

Tony is buying all the tickets in bulk himself to sell out shows. The simplest answer is usually right.


----------



## ThunderNitro

This week thousands of Americans cut off their cable provider. Why do people rarely consider these factors when it comes to AEW's decrease in ratings?


----------



## Erik.

ThunderNitro said:


> This week thousands of Americans cut off their cable provider. Why do people rarely consider these factors when it comes to AEW's decrease in ratings?


It's mentioned often.

Along with the numerous other ways that people can actually watch wrestling instead of watching it through cable.


----------



## 3venflow

ThunderNitro said:


> This week thousands of Americans cut off their cable provider. Why do people rarely consider these factors when it comes to AEW's decrease in ratings?


Some of us make a point of it. But some people seem to think ratings should go up as viewership goes down.

All the debates about how good the ratings are will be answered at the next TV rights renewal anyway. I'm predicting double or nearly double what they receive now.


----------



## BroncoBuster3

ripcitydisciple said:


> It's amazing to me how Kaientai/ Val Venus or Naked Midian is some of the funniest television in wrestling to them yet Orange Cassidy doing light kicks to psych out his opponent or the Dark Order is the cringiest thing ever and doesn't belong in Pro Wrestling.


I always wonder who says these things. Who here actually believes that Naked Midian or the Kaientai/Val Venus stuff was the funniest tv in wrestling and why are we comparing it to soft kicks in what is supposed to be a fight again?


----------



## The XL 2

validreasoning said:


> They put him on youtube ffs, they completely killed the dude
> 
> As you said 'just another guy' now.


He was always just another guy, with the exception of the stars aligning and everything falling into place for him for about 3 months in 2014. He isn't, and frankly never was, some huge star.


----------



## DammitChrist

BroncoBuster3 said:


> I always wonder who says these things. Who here actually believes that Naked Midian or the Kaientai/Val Venus stuff was the funniest tv in wrestling and why are we comparing it to soft kicks in what is supposed to be a fight again?


Orange Cassidy is awesome


----------



## BroncoBuster3

DammitChrist said:


> Orange Cassidy is awesome


At what? Also this is hardly a response to what is being said


----------



## BestInTheWorld22

Dark Emperor said:


> Wow, A Daniel Bryan main event is actually the 2nd lowest quarter. This is a dude that singlehandedly got Dynamite their second biggest rating ever on his first appearance.
> 
> Now he's just another guy on the roster and being outdrawn by the likes of FTR. Sad to see.


I mean when he's wrestling the jobber squad members and feuding with Hangman it's bound to happen. They should have struck while they iron was hot with him and Omega


----------



## Curryfor3

3venflow said:


> They do run a lot of smaller buildings and get 80~100% attendances.
> 
> Anyway, AEW really needs to think about running Canada. From the WON via Reddit:
> 
> _For Canada In 18-34, Smackdown on 11/26 did 19,000, Raw on 11/29 did 10,000, NXT on 11/30 did 10,000, AEW Dynamite on 12/1 did 61,000, Smackdown on 12/3 did 5,000, Main Event on 12/3 did 5,000, Raw on 12/6 did 17,000 and NXT on 12/7 did 3,000. Dave notes the popularity of AEW in Canada with younger demos is huge compared to WWE and more than LA, the west coast etc running shows in big Canadian markets like Toronto and Montreal should be their priority._


Despite that data, they need to a West Coast tour at some point too.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

ripcitydisciple said:


> It's amazing to me how Kaientai/ Val Venus or Naked Midian is some of the funniest television in wrestling to them yet Orange Cassidy doing light kicks to psych out his opponent or the Dark Order is the cringiest thing ever and doesn't belong in Pro Wrestling.


Hold on, who the hell has ever said either of those things were good? I have never seen someone say that before. They were garbage at the time but they'd still be more entertaining than any attempt at comedy in wrestling today.


----------



## La Parka

ripcitydisciple said:


> It's amazing to me how Kaientai/ Val Venus or Naked Midian is some of the funniest television in wrestling to them yet Orange Cassidy doing light kicks to psych out his opponent or the Dark Order is the cringiest thing ever and doesn't belong in Pro Wrestling.


No one liked naked Mideon and the act was a thing for a handful of months. Completely different to the way Orange Cassidy and Dork Order are used.

Val could actually wrestle, he didn’t have numerous videos of him botching and doing shitty dives where everyone stands around and waits to be jumped on like Orange cassidy or the dork order.

Val was also never presented as a main event act. He didn’t have a world championship match at a PPV, he didn’t feud and defeat a Main eventer like Jericho. After Mankind won his first WWE title, did they bring out Val to hype the crowd up and then have him face The Rock on the next 4 raws? No? Then it’s not all that comparable to the dork order.

The problem with Dork Order and Orange Cassidy is not that they are an act it’s that they are acts that are used way too often. Orange cassidy should be seen maybe once every few months on television in those battle royals where he can do the same shitty jokes he’s done for 3 years, not having major feuds every month. The Dork Order should really just be on YouTube. Outside of Cabana none of them are even in the same league as comedy acts of the 90s in terms of in ring work and mic work.


----------



## ThirdMan

For those who weren't aware, in Canada, RAW and SD run many times per week: RAW on Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and sometimes Saturdays, and SD on Fridays, Saturdays, and often Sundays. There are many opportunities to catch those shows on SportsNet 360 if one misses the original Monday and Friday broadcasts, and the station also airs a recap show (This Week In WWE) and a glorified recap show (Main Event) a few times each week as well.

On the other hand, Dynamite only airs on TSN 2 (or sometimes TSN 4) on Wednesdays, often only once (sometimes they sneak in a replay a few hours later). If a viewer misses it, and didn't set their DVR to record it, their only option to watch the show in its entirety (legally) would be TSN On Demand (with some providers) a few days later, where viewers usually can't fast-forward through commercials (which _really _sucks when it's not live).

Also, TSN only airs Rampage on its online app, and not on TV (the only Rampage episode that aired on TSN2 in Canada was the CM Punk debut, delayed a few hours). So the *only *time that AEW is typically on Canadian television is on Wednesday nights (aside from those weeks when TNT moves it to a Friday or Saturday). Invariably, I would expect the Canadian viewership for initial airings of Dynamite to be more concentrated than those of any of the WWE shows, because Sportsnet360 is oversaturated with them, and they're way too readily available throughout the week.

Does USA Network re-air RAW on any other days in the States, and do Dynamite or Rampage re-air on any other days on TNT? We don't get those networks on most Canadian TV providers.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

RainmakerV2 said:


> Oh that's Trump Plaza now? Shhh don't tell their superfans what it once was named. You won't sell a ticket and their may be protests outside.


I'm not sure it was ever formally a part of Trump's holdings or ever called Trump Plaza(the name of one of neighbouring casinos) and was only referred to as such for WrestleMania because of a deal that WWF had with Trump. Pretty sure at the time it was simply known as the Atlantic City Convention Center.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

CovidFan said:


> West coast being live is killing a solid 400k viewers. Just tack that on and that's the real number


Only 2 states are completely in the Pacific Time Zone and parts of three others (four if you count a very small portion of Alaska) Thinking that parts of 6 states makes up rough 30% of their audience is crazy talk. 

When AEW was doing 1.2 million viewers in the summer they were throwing PPV quality shows out on free TV and bringing in big names. It's not a secret that doing things like that increases viewership but it's not sustainable and a regression of sorts was to be expected when having to go back to doing their standard TV product.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

BroncoBuster3 said:


> I always wonder who says these things. Who here actually believes that Naked Midian or the Kaientai/Val Venus stuff was the funniest tv in wrestling and why are we comparing it to soft kicks in what is supposed to be a fight again?


The Val Venis/Kai En Tai stuff was funny at the time Of course, I was twelve when it was happening. That could be why it was funny. It certainly didn't age well.


----------



## ElTerrible

MonkasaurusRex said:


> Only 2 states are completely in the Pacific Time Zone and parts of three others (four if you count a very small portion of Alaska) Thinking that parts of 6 states makes up rough 30% of their audience is crazy talk.
> 
> When AEW was doing 1.2 million viewers in the summer they were throwing PPV quality shows out on free TV and bringing in big names. It's not a secret that doing things like that increases viewership but it's not sustainable and a regression of sorts was to be expected when having to go back to doing their standard TV product.


 It´s pretty much 20% of the overall US population. So if 1.1M is the base viewership you apply , then it would be a loss of 225k viewers. That leaves around 875k viewers, so roughly what they are doing. The numbers make sense.


----------



## CovidFan

MonkasaurusRex said:


> Only 2 states are completely in the Pacific Time Zone and parts of three others (four if you count a very small portion of Alaska) Thinking that parts of 6 states makes up rough 30% of their audience is crazy talk.


Completely agree. I was patronizing the people who shout "BUT THE WEST COAST TIME" every week  . Back on track, you'll see in January when they're at 1.2m+ consistently!


----------



## NathanMayberry

ThirdMan said:


> For those who weren't aware, in Canada, RAW and SD run many times per week: RAW on Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and sometimes Saturdays, and SD on Fridays, Saturdays, and often Sundays. There are many opportunities to catch those shows on SportsNet 360 if one misses the original Monday and Friday broadcasts, and the station also airs a recap show (This Week In WWE) and a glorified recap show (Main Event) a few times each week as well.
> 
> On the other hand, Dynamite only airs on TSN 2 (or sometimes TSN 4) on Wednesdays, often only once (sometimes they sneak in a replay a few hours later). If a viewer misses it, and didn't set their DVR to record it, their only option to watch the show in its entirety (legally) would be TSN On Demand (with some providers) a few days later, where viewers usually can't fast-forward through commercials (which _really _sucks when it's not live).
> 
> Also, TSN only airs Rampage on its online app, and not on TV (the only Rampage episode that aired on TSN2 in Canada was the CM Punk debut, delayed a few hours). So the *only *time that AEW is typically on Canadian television is on Wednesday nights (aside from those weeks when TNT moves it to a Friday or Saturday). Invariably, I would expect the Canadian viewership for initial airings of Dynamite to be more concentrated than those of any of the WWE shows, because Sportsnet360 is oversaturated with them, and they're way too readily available throughout the week.
> 
> Does USA Network re-air RAW on any other days in the States, and do Dynamite or Rampage re-air on any other days on TNT? We don't get those networks on most Canadian TV providers.


shhhhh Don't kill the narrative. 


AEW is the most popular wrestling show in Canada. They should come do a show here  Book the largest stadium we have and show us how smart Meltzer really is.


----------



## 3venflow

Again, west coast accounts for 7-10% ratings. So just add that range on to whatever they do to get a number that can be properly compared to what they did before the change. ie. this week's, 872k + 7% (933k) to 10% (959k).

Also, expecting numbers to rise as cable viewers go down is stupid. Smackdown is on network TV and does lower ratings now with Reigns on top than it did *on cable* with Mahal on top. What does that say? Not that Mahal is bigger than Reigns but that TV viewing habits have changed dramatically even in a few years.

Unless the TV trend changes, networks will pay even more for pro wrestling than they already are to keep it, or they will lose it to the streaming platforms. Wrestling is one of the last big performers in the key demographic along with live sports. That is why WWE got a big deal even as viewership continued to sink (but the demo still ranked high) and why AEW got a really nice deal despite being a brand new upstart.

Wrestling on the big streaming platforms is quite appealing as a fan, because you'll get these one to two hour shows with no annoying ad breaks.


----------



## DammitChrist

NathanMayberry said:


> shhhhh Don't kill the narrative.
> 
> 
> AEW is the most popular wrestling show in Canada. They should come do a show here  Book the largest stadium we have and show us how smart Meltzer really is.


After viewing your takes, I’ll easily take Dave Meltzer as knowing what he’s talking about in comparison.


----------



## Randy Lahey

MonkasaurusRex said:


> Only 2 states are completely in the Pacific Time Zone and parts of three others (four if you count a very small portion of Alaska) Thinking that parts of 6 states makes up rough 30% of their audience is crazy talk.
> 
> When AEW was doing 1.2 million viewers in the summer they were throwing PPV quality shows out on free TV and bringing in big names. It's not a secret that doing things like that increases viewership but it's not sustainable and a regression of sorts was to be expected when having to go back to doing their standard TV product.


Population of the West Coast is gigantic


----------



## RainmakerV2

Randy Lahey said:


> Population of the West Coast is gigantic



Even on the payroll Meltzer says it's 7-10 percent, which still puts them under a million.


----------



## ThirdMan

NathanMayberry said:


> shhhhh Don't kill the narrative.
> 
> 
> AEW is the most popular wrestling show in Canada. They should come do a show here  Book the largest stadium we have and show us how smart Meltzer really is.


I just wanted to provide some context with regards to Canadian viewership. I doubt Sportsnet would air the WWE shows so many times per week if the replays weren't performing better than anything they could put in that spot, which means there are probably quite a few viewers watching the replays instead of the original broadcast. There may, of course, be some folks who watch multiple times during the week.

Regardless, I think AEW should _absolutely _test the waters by doing some events in major Canadian markets. I don't know if they'll draw families (like WWE usually does in Canada), but they would almost certainly draw a young male demographic. In Vancouver, for instance, WWE house shows have sold around 5000 tickets in the past few years, while the one Vancouver TV taping (the first since 2003) on February 14, 2020 apparently sold 14,000 tickets (a fair number were obviously bought up by scalpers). AEW should do some Dynamite/Rampage tapings in Toronto, Montreal, and Calgary, in 5000-8000 seat venues, to see what the demand is. Of course, perhaps the cost of crossing the border for shows may be too much for the company right now. Hard to say.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

DaveRA said:


> I have been saying for a long time that its the fed fans and a lot of the lapsed fed fans that won’t give AEW a fair go - no matter the star power or the booking.


So ratings being bad is feds fault? Glorious.



ripcitydisciple said:


> It's amazing to me how Kaientai/ Val Venus or Naked Midian is some of the funniest television in wrestling to them yet Orange Cassidy doing light kicks to psych out his opponent or the Dark Order is the cringiest thing ever and doesn't belong in Pro Wrestling.


As 4-5 others have said nobody ever said that. 

Kaientai - Jobber tag team that didn't really do anything all that silly from memory except the cutting penis angle. When the bell rang they were pretty serious though.

Naked Mideon - Regularly mocked and often makes appearances in the "worst gimmick of all time" videos on YouTube.

Val Venis - He wasn't really a comedy character he was just a wrestler who shot porn on the side. Again, once the bell rang he didn't really do anything stupid.

Methinks you haven't seen many of these characters at all.


----------



## ThunderNitro

AEW will never experience the level of successful as those small Australian independent promotions if he continues pandering to the marks.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Chip Chipperson said:


> So ratings being bad is feds fault? Glorious.
> 
> 
> 
> As 4-5 others have said nobody ever said that.
> 
> Kaientai - Jobber tag team that didn't really do anything all that silly from memory except the cutting penis angle. When the bell rang they were pretty serious though.
> 
> Naked Mideon - Regularly mocked and often makes appearances in the "worst gimmick of all time" videos on YouTube.
> 
> Val Venis - He wasn't really a comedy character he was just a wrestler who shot porn on the side. Again, once the bell rang he didn't really do anything stupid.
> 
> Methinks you haven't seen many of these characters at all.



You didn't know it's Vinces fault that they signed the 2 biggest free agents in wrestling and somehow went from 1.5 mil to 800k? That darn voodoo doll Vince has of Khan in his office. Must be poking the fuck outta that thing. You should know by now NOTHING is Tony Khans fault. Like...ever.


----------



## InfamousGerald

RainmakerV2 said:


> You didn't know it's Vinces fault that they signed the 2 biggest free agents in wrestling and somehow went from 1.5 mil to 800k?


Yeah you exaggerating the fuck outta those numbers


----------



## RainmakerV2

InfamousGerald said:


> Yeah you exaggerating the fuck outta those numbers


They peaked at 1.5 million after Bryan's signing. Now they're in the 800s. What am I exaggerating?


----------



## InfamousGerald

RainmakerV2 said:


> They peaked at 1.5 million after Bryan's signing.


No they didn’t, it was like 1.3 mil


----------



## Curryfor3

ThunderNitro said:


> AEW will never experience the level of successful as those small Australian independent promotions if he continues pandering to the marks.


What?


----------



## RainmakerV2

InfamousGerald said:


> No they didn’t, it was like 1.3 mil



Bryan's quarter hour debut peaked at 1.453 million. Now his matches do around 820k and are often the lower rated segments of the show. 




But that's Vinces fault or something.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Curryfor3 said:


> What?


I think he's doing the lame and drawn out "Chip isn't doing better than TK therefore he can't judge TK" thing.


----------



## La Parka

Chip Chipperson said:


> I think he's doing the lame and drawn out "Chip isn't doing better than TK therefore he can't judge TK" thing.


Well its a fair point. Both of you have the same amount of funds!

Im assuming your father is also a billionaire?


----------



## Chip Chipperson

La Parka said:


> Well its a fair point. Both of you have the same amount of funds!
> 
> Im assuming your father is also a billionaire?


It's also good that wrestling is just as popular in Australia than it is the United States.


----------



## thorn123

Chip Chipperson said:


> So ratings being bad is feds fault? Glorious.
> 
> 
> 
> As 4-5 others have said nobody ever said that.
> 
> Kaientai - Jobber tag team that didn't really do anything all that silly from memory except the cutting penis angle. When the bell rang they were pretty serious though.
> 
> Naked Mideon - Regularly mocked and often makes appearances in the "worst gimmick of all time" videos on YouTube.
> 
> Val Venis - He wasn't really a comedy character he was just a wrestler who shot porn on the side. Again, once the bell rang he didn't really do anything stupid.
> 
> Methinks you haven't seen many of these characters at all.


You’re starting to get it …


----------



## Erik.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1469822165977640964
New sections opened up for Winters is Coming.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

ThunderNitro said:


> This week thousands of Americans cut off their cable provider. Why do people rarely consider these factors when it comes to AEW's decrease in ratings?


*Because this is never mentioned for WWE and the same people who make this excuse for AEW are the first ones trying to act like WWE is going to lose their multi billion dollar TV deals at 2 mil viewers while Dynamite is at 800k and Rampage is at 400k. We're just keeping the same energy.*


----------



## Erik.

Are there a weirder bunch of people than those that plead "we" when it comes to wrestling companies.

Grown men too.


----------



## 3venflow

They sold around 4,200 tickets on the first day of sales for the Cleveland show, which is in late January.

The Jacksonville show later this month is at 2,400 sold.

The DC show on January 19th has fewer than 500 tickets remaining with 3,500 sold.

As for Garland, it continues the recent trend of rising attendances vs. previous events there.

2019: 4,500
2020 #1: 5,688
2020 #2: 5,818~ (I expect it to finish at 6,000+)


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *Because this is never mentioned for WWE and the same people who make this excuse for AEW are the first ones trying to act like WWE is going to lose their multi billion dollar TV deals at 2 mil viewers while Dynamite is at 800k and Rampage is at 400k. We're just keeping the same energy.*


You've butchered the meaning of the term, "excuses" for the past year now; especially since you continue to make them.

That word pretty much means nothing now in an argument.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Erik. said:


> Are there a weirder bunch of people than those that plead "we" when it comes to wrestling companies.
> 
> Grown men too.


*In case you struggle with basic grammar as well, "people" is a plural noun. That means the question that was replied to is being directed at multiple individuals. That means it's not just me, therefore, the pronoun "we" is necessary to cover more than one person being questioned in this situation. Hope this helps.*


----------



## Erik.

The Legit DMD said:


> *In case you struggle with basic grammar as well, "people" is a plural noun. That means the question that was replied to is being directed at multiple individuals. That means it's not just me, therefore, the pronoun "we" is necessary to cover more than one person being questioned in this situation. Hope this helps.*


We're all aware what *you* mean, you condescending pick.

You bleat on about it enough.


----------



## Dizzie

Khan has created the same mistakes wcw did even though he keeps acting like he is above that. The hard push of one surprise debut straight after another just like what happened with new nwo members, has created situation of short term buzz and fans getting bored quickly with the product as they grow impatient of another big debut


----------



## CovidFan

Dizzie said:


> Khan has created the same mistakes wcw did even though he keeps acting like he is above that. The hard push of one surprise debut straight after another just like what happened with new nwo members, has created situation of short term buzz and fans getting bored quickly with the product as they grow impatient of another big debut


Pretty silly comparison tbh  . Not sure I even need to explain why, so I won't.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Dizzie said:


> Khan has created the same mistakes wcw did even though he keeps acting like he is above that. The hard push of one surprise debut straight after another just like what happened with new nwo members, has created situation of short term buzz and fans getting bored quickly with the product as they grow impatient of another big debut


*Correct. They've conditioned the fans to not care about anything except the next debut. This is why I said it was a horrible idea to make Kenny vs Bryan non title and put the belt on Hangman. Now, he's running a pointless Dark Order gauntlet that no one gives a fuck about, and the fans quickly realized that they cared more about "Hangman's story" than the actual wrestler.*


----------



## Erik.

Dizzie said:


> Khan has created the same mistakes wcw did even though he keeps acting like he is above that. The hard push of one surprise debut straight after another just like what happened with new nwo members, has created situation of short term buzz and fans getting bored quickly with the product as they grow impatient of another big debut


'fans' being a key word here. 

Any actual AEW fan hasn't got bored quickly with the product out of growing impatient of another big debut. 

And the so called fans you mention are the exact ones who then bash the company for usually signing and relying on WWE talent instead of growing their own. 

It's a loss-loss situation either way when it comes to a particular set of 'wrestling fans'


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *Correct. They've conditioned the fans to not care about anything except the next debut. This is why I said it was a horrible idea to make Kenny vs Bryan non title and put the belt on Hangman. Now, he's running a pointless Dark Order gauntlet that no one gives a fuck about, and the fans quickly realized that they cared more about "Hangman's story" than the actual wrestler.*


Wouldn't caring more about Adam Page's story imply that they ALSO care about the wrestler himself?

Seriously, did you really just contradict yourself here?


----------



## CovidFan

DammitChrist said:


> Wouldn't caring more about Adam Page's story imply that they ALSO care about the wrestler himself?


I was gonna ask because it makes no sense but I'm so glad you did. Can't wait for his reply to you!


----------



## Garty

AEW... still the hottest ticket in town!!!

From PWInsider.com:

Free WrestleMania tickets offer

_In something I can't ever remember happening before, especially months before the show, WWE is offering a deal where if someone buys 3 WrestleMania tickets, they get 1 free to at least some Peacock subscribers. An email was sent out earlier today.

The show takes place on April 2 and 3, 2022 in Dallas, TX as the company is going with the two night package that they did last year in Tampa, FL.

It's interesting that we are over three months away from the show and this offer is being made already. Here is the graphic that they sent out.








_


----------



## DaSlacker

The Legit DMD said:


> *Because this is never mentioned for WWE and the same people who make this excuse for AEW are the first ones trying to act like WWE is going to lose their multi billion dollar TV deals at 2 mil viewers while Dynamite is at 800k and Rampage is at 400k. We're just keeping the same energy.*


2 million for SmackDown on Fox.

There's no comparison there for AEW because they ain't on free TV. Raw is more like 1.6 and NXT is 0.5 in a better time slot, on an easier night. Either way, I don't think there's been much talk of WWE losing their deals - though Fox are notoriously fickle. More like talk of WWE not getting another 1.3 billion payday from NBC when a rival does the numbers Khan is doing for 225 million.


----------



## Klitschko

Garty said:


> AEW... still the hottest ticket in town!!!
> 
> From PWInsider.com:
> 
> Free WrestleMania tickets offer
> 
> _In something I can't ever remember happening before, especially months before the show, WWE is offering a deal where if someone buys 3 WrestleMania tickets, they get 1 free to at least some Peacock subscribers. An email was sent out earlier today.
> 
> The show takes place on April 2 and 3, 2022 in Dallas, TX as the company is going with the two night package that they did last year in Tampa, FL.
> 
> It's interesting that we are over three months away from the show and this offer is being made already. Here is the graphic that they sent out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _


I do think that WWE is worried about AEW a bit and AEW is doing great with ticket sales, but this does nothing for me. It's the holiday season. It's just a little promotion for them to do what every other business does around the holidays.


----------



## KingDong990

Chip Chipperson said:


> So ratings being bad is feds fault? Glorious.
> 
> 
> 
> As 4-5 others have said nobody ever said that.
> 
> Kaientai - Jobber tag team that didn't really do anything all that silly from memory except the cutting penis angle. When the bell rang they were pretty serious though.
> 
> Naked Mideon - Regularly mocked and often makes appearances in the "worst gimmick of all time" videos on YouTube.
> 
> Val Venis - He wasn't really a comedy character he was just a wrestler who shot porn on the side. Again, once the bell rang he didn't really do anything stupid.
> 
> Methinks you haven't seen many of these characters at all.


STFU already asshole. Here's an idea, gonna rip your pants off, tie you to a chair, and then expose your buttcheeks between the top and bottom parts of the chair. Then, a big bodybuilder sticks the nozzle part of an air pump deep into your anus and begins rapidly pushing the lever up and down. You hear, "SQUEEGEE!! SQUEEGEE!!!! SQUEGEEE!!! SQUEEEGEE!!! SQUEEGEEE!!!!!!" as the pump goes up and down, instantly inflating your buttcheeks until they're about the size of huge boulders. Eventually, they can't take anymore air and then, "PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!" they explode like massive balloons. You get launched into the air, screaming, "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!" As your buttcheeks deflate and everybody hears a massive fart-like sound. You then end up in outer space and die instantly, because there's no air lol. A hilarious moment indeed! 🤠🤠🤠🤠🤠🤠🗿


----------



## ElTerrible

Garty said:


> AEW... still the hottest ticket in town!!!
> 
> From PWInsider.com:
> 
> Free WrestleMania tickets offer
> 
> _In something I can't ever remember happening before, especially months before the show, WWE is offering a deal where if someone buys 3 WrestleMania tickets, they get 1 free to at least some Peacock subscribers. An email was sent out earlier today.
> 
> The show takes place on April 2 and 3, 2022 in Dallas, TX as the company is going with the two night package that they did last year in Tampa, FL.
> 
> It's interesting that we are over three months away from the show and this offer is being made already. Here is the graphic that they sent out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _


New special offer: Buy two WM tickets, get two AEW tickets for free.


----------



## CM Buck

Erik. said:


> We're all aware what *you* mean, you condescending pick.
> 
> You bleat on about it enough.


Don't insult outside of rants mate


----------



## 3venflow

7,300 tickets sold so far for the TBS debut in Newark.


----------



## omaroo

3venflow said:


> 7,300 tickets sold so far for the TBS debut in Newark.


Nice. What total capacity of the arena?

IS this weeks show sold out?


----------



## Erik.

omaroo said:


> Nice. What total capacity of the arena?
> 
> IS this weeks show sold out?


Estimated capacity for the TBS debut is 9,510.

So currently sold 77% of available tickets.

Regarding this week, they've opened more seats so the capacity is about 6,180 and they'd sold 94% of the tickets as of yesterday.


----------



## 3venflow

omaroo said:


> Nice. What total capacity of the arena?


They did 13,190 and 11,500 paid earlier this year and it was pretty full. A lot of those were sold pre-pandemic so they had a longer sale window and I doubt it'll get there this time, but could hit 10k. Like @Erik. said, current capacity is lower than they can potentially open and if tickets keep moving, they'll add more seats.

Most of the best seats are gone:


----------



## 3venflow

AEW heads to enemy territory in February.


----------



## Zappers

AEW sells tickets well. Why? Their events are televised. and they use the same venue for all their shows in that particular week. They use small seating venues. Plus, it's a rarity they will come to a town near you. You want to see them, buy the tickets. Because it's probably your last chance. WWE on the other hand has live events almost every day in different cities and countries. They go all over. Miss an event?, don't worry they will be back very soon. There's no comparison between both companies.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Zappers said:


> AEW sells tickets well. Why? Their events are televised. and they use the same venue for all their shows in that particular week. They use small seating venues. Plus, it's a rarity they will come to a town near you. You want to see them, buy the tickets. Because it's probably your last chance. WWE on the other hand has live events almost every day in different cities and countries. They go all over. Miss an event?, don't worry they will be back very soon. There's no comparison between both companies.


So what you're saying is one companies show is must watch and the other isn't. Got it.


----------



## Zappers

A PG Attitude said:


> So what you're saying is one companies show is must watch and the other isn't. Got it.


No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I was pretty clear on the reasons.

But speaking of "must watch". Oh, I get it. I personally watch AEW/WWE/NXT..... AEW is the latest cell phone. Not really different from the prior phone model, just a couple new features. Some people love stuff, disguised as "new". They will buy anything when you tell them it's new. There's many people with the prior model and are not swayed by new shiny toys. Sure, they'll browse at the store, pick up the "new" phone. Check it out. Give it a few test drives.


----------



## 3venflow

Zappers said:


> Plus, it's a rarity they will come to a town near you.


They've been running some territories into the ground this year and still doing good numbers every time.


----------



## CovidFan

Zappers said:


> AEW sells tickets well. Why? Their events are televised. and they use the same venue for all their shows in that particular week. They use small seating venues. Plus, it's a rarity they will come to a town near you. You want to see them, buy the tickets. Because it's probably your last chance. WWE on the other hand has live events almost every day in different cities and countries. They go all over. Miss an event?, don't worry they will be back very soon. *There's no comparison between both companies.*


You just compared their live event models... Your following post was just weird and you projecting your feeling on AEW and new things (I guess) and isn't actually based on reality.


----------



## Zappers

CovidFan said:


> You just compared their live event models... Your following post was just weird and you projecting your feeling on AEW and new things (I guess) and isn't actually based on reality.


No comparison means one company is on a whole other level than the other company if every way imaginable. Only similarity is that they are both involve wrestling.

My following post. That's your take on it. Your opinion, feel free to say/feel what you wish. I said I watch both shows. But I didn't say I wasn't aware of what's really going on.


----------



## Zappers

3venflow said:


> They've been running some territories into the ground this year and still doing good numbers every time.


A couple of places yes.


----------



## 3venflow

*AEW Rampage*

Viewership: 503,000
18-49: 0.18

Back in the 500s for the first time since mid-November, demo practically the same as the past two weeks.


----------



## Erik.

3venflow said:


> *AEW Rampage*
> 
> Viewership: 503,000
> 18-49: 0.18
> 
> Back in the 500s for the first time since mid-November, demo practically the same as the past two weeks.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dat Hook numbah


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## Big Booty Bex

3venflow said:


> AEW heads to enemy territory in February.


----------



## yeahright2

So, we have rampage ratings, which means it´s time for the obligatory shameless plug for the ratings game 
AEW Ratings prediction game

The prize this week goes to @Prized Fighter (see what I did there?). Congrats to him

The ratings were 28K better than last week, but only 4K from the week before that, so that´s the "drawing power" of Hook.


----------



## RapShepard

DammitChrist said:


> Wouldn't caring more about Adam Page's story imply that they ALSO care about the wrestler himself?
> 
> Seriously, did you really just contradict yourself here?


Not really sometimes stories are more over than the wrestler. Something like Heath Slater having kids.


----------



## .christopher.

So, if we round Dynamites ratings up to 900k, and add Rampages 500k, they still fall short of RAW, nevermind still over a million less than SmackDown. RAW apparently went head-to-head with the NFL, too.

Absolutely terrible numbers.


----------



## 3venflow

Rampage finished 13th on cable on Friday. Still performing quite well despite reduced interest compared to the opening weeks. Unsurprisingly, it was strong in the male demo but not in the female demo.


----------



## thorn123

.christopher. said:


> So, if we round Dynamites ratings up to 900k, and add Rampages 500k, they still fall short of RAW, nevermind still over a million less than SmackDown. RAW apparently went head-to-head with the NFL, too.
> 
> Absolutely terrible numbers.


Forget numbers, I am just curious serious question - do you prefer raw or dynamite?


----------



## RapShepard

Rampage needs a better slot. It's going to get harder to justify putting good shit on it when the show does so much less viewer wise.


----------



## zorori

RapShepard said:


> Rampage needs a better slot. It's going to get harder to justify putting good shit on it when the show does so much less viewer wise.


Yeah, it feels weird for Dynamite to be used to push matches for Rampage when it's in a garbage slot.


----------



## RapShepard

zorori said:


> Yeah, it feels weird for Dynamite to be used to push matches for Rampage when it's in a garbage slot.


It's such a conundrum lol. I get them slowing back on putting must see shit on Rampage because nobody watches. But because no must see shit happens, there's no real reason to watch rampage for folk who are social on the weekend.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Big Booty Bex said:


> View attachment 113172


*







*


----------



## Klitschko

RapShepard said:


> It's such a conundrum lol. I get them slowing back on putting must see shit on Rampage because nobody watches. But because no must see shit happens, there's no real reason to watch rampage for folk who are social on the weekend.


Who the hell uses conundrum in 2021? God damn Rap. You intellectual animal.


----------



## InfamousGerald

FreshRabbit24 said:


> View attachment 113243
> View attachment 113244
> View attachment 113245
> 
> 
> Thanks for the tips fellas.
> 
> Also, in typical MAGA fashion I'm sure @Chip Chipperson will juelz and say "bububut all I did was talk about AEW" but we all know that's not the case. He ran off a good poster because he shit on Vince mcmahon in the Brodie Lee thread (Which Vince deserved btw) and ran and made a thread shitting on that poster just so he could shit on AEW fans. He calls himself the "King of Rants" which is gay as fuck, and is constantly bragging about his rasslin promotion but is too chickenshit to post even a photo. _Dusts off magnifying glass_ once upon a time, they used to call me Detective Chrome, think it's time to remind people how I got that nickname in the 1st place.


Ratio bozo


----------



## .christopher.

thorn123 said:


> Forget numbers, I am just curious serious question - do you prefer raw or dynamite?


Dynamite.


----------



## thorn123

.christopher. said:


> Dynamite.


So I agree with you dynamite does terrible numbers. But with Raw as a reference they should be doing more.


----------



## La Parka

The ratings should be interesting this week.

Did people stick it out for the entry hangman / Bryan match? Did they all leave as soon as it ended? Did they stick around for a possible surprise?


----------



## 3venflow

Updated attendance graphic per WrestleTix.

Apparently they messed up the pricing for Revolution pricing with combos for Revolution with some tickets too cheap. They've fixed it now but a lot of fans got in before they could. One guy got two floor tickets for $85.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

Seeing a non WWE touring wrestling promotion average that kind of attendance these days is still cool.


----------



## .christopher.

La Parka said:


> The ratings should be interesting this week.
> 
> Did people stick it out for the entry hangman / Bryan match? Did they all leave as soon as it ended? Did they stick around for a possible surprise?


Personally, I'm more interested in seeing how it compares to last years winter is coming special.

Last year AEW didn't have Sting, CM Punk or Bryan Danielson, AND were going head-to-head with NXT.

Let's see how much they've grown.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1471583707920281614

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Kentucky34

Bad number.


----------



## 3venflow

So their best in a month viewer-wise, but the key demo is still quite stagnant compared to before.

That is what may concern AEW a bit even though I expect they were still top 5.


----------



## Sad Panda

3venflow said:


> So their best in a month viewer-wise, but the key demo is still quite stagnant compared to before.


Ive noticed that, any reasoning why that might be?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1471583707920281614
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


that’s ok

key demo staying 0.31 needs to be better

more Hook!


----------



## 3venflow

Sad Panda said:


> Ive noticed that, any reasoning why that might be?


M18-49 is still strong and one of the best on cable, but they seem to have trouble attracting younger females.

Challenge is still on and that usually brings down AEW's demo some. It may go up after that ends soon.

They got as high as 0.53 earlier this year in the 18-49, which is staggeringly high and higher than what Smackdown usually does. That was a bit of an anomaly, but they will want to get back to 0.40 if for no other reason than negotiating leverage for the next TV deal.


----------



## Mr316

The storytelling is all over the place. Focus on who you want as your top star and build the story around him. It should be all around Hook. Unfortunately, Tony Khan doesn’t want this type of show.


----------



## NathanMayberry

So are year over year numbers valid this week or are we gonna just focus on Canada again?


----------



## Erik.

Rating is good considering the world title match kicked off at a time the majority of the West Coast were finishing work. 

Demo however isn't. 

Will be interesting to see the quarterly breakdown.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1471586246703165445

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr316

Stone Cold and The Rock were all over the shows in the 90s because they were the ones driving the ratings. Figure out who drives the ratings and put them all over the show. Stop the damn rotation.


----------



## 3venflow

Dynamite finished #5 on cable, faring strongly in M18-49 (#3 behind only NBA), poorly in F18-49 and reasonably well with the 50+ group.

Year-on-year, it was up in viewers on last year's Winter is Coming (948k compared 911k), but right down in the demo (0.31 compared to 0.42).

As someone who continues to argue that the demo is most important, that is the bothersome thing for AEW more than xx,000 viewers which is pretty irrelevant in the big picture (fewer people watching cable year on year after all). If they could've held or even can get back to the 0.40 to 0.50 numbers they did for a point this year, they could negotiate a better deal than with 0.30 to 0.40.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Oh noes, oldies are invading the AEW safe space!


----------



## RapShepard

Last Year 

Winter was Coming 1- 12/2/20 .42 demo 913k viewership

Winter is Coming 2- 12/15/21 .31 demo 948k viewership


----------



## RapShepard

Bryan and Hangman got some splainin to do


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

RapShepard said:


> Last Year
> 
> Winter was Coming 1- 12/16/20 .32 demo 806k viewership
> 
> Winter is Coming 2- 12/15/21 .31 demo 948k viewership


Winter is coming took place a couple weeks earlier last year.


----------



## Geert Wilders

RapShepard said:


> Bryan and Hangman got some splainin to do


a 1h match is not going to attract the younger ADHD tiktok generation

we prefer our entertainment in 8 second segments


----------



## RapShepard

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Winter is coming took place a couple weeks earlier last year.


Ahh thank you for the correction.


----------



## One Shed

RapShepard said:


> Ahh thank you for the correction.


They also went against NXT last year, while this year had no wrestling competition. Not a good number.


----------



## Mr316

Geert Wilders said:


> a 1h match is not going to attract the younger ADHD tiktok generation
> 
> we prefer our entertainment in 8 second segments


Exactly this.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Mr316 said:


> Exactly this.


not only this, a 1 hour match with no pay off.

WHY


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Being up YoY, and on the last Winter is Coming special is good. Hopefully the first hour at least averaged a million.


----------



## La Parka

The oldies are the new key demo.

They had to expect this when they started playing themes from 50 years ago.


----------



## 3venflow

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Being up YoY, and on the last Winter is Coming special is good. Hopefully the first hour at least averaged a million.


It's pretty irrelevant in the big picture. 900k, 950k or 1m isn't going to make or break a TV deal. These are just numbers for prediction games and easier show to show comparisons. In the industry, they're less relevant metrics than they once were. Every year, cable loses millions of viewers anyway which is why the networks are desperate to hold on to any show that brings in younger viewers.

Dropping from 0.42 to 0.31 in the 18-49 is a big deal and not good. That demo is AEW's money maker and could be the difference between a $80m deal or $120m deal when they negotiate with Warner next.

Still a long way until the next round of TV rights though, so who knows where they'll be at by then. The contract clause stipulates Warner must pay more next time if they want to keep AEW.


----------



## rbl85

3venflow said:


> It's pretty irrelevant in the big picture. 900k, 950k or 1m isn't going to make or break a TV deal. These are just numbers for prediction games and easier show to show comparisons. In the industry, they're less relevant metrics than they once were. Every year, cable loses millions of viewers anyway which is why the networks are desperate to hold on to any show that brings in younger viewers.
> 
> *Dropping from 0.42 to 0.31 in the 18-49* is a big deal and not good. That demo is AEW's money maker and could be the difference between a $80m deal or $120m deal when they negotiate with Warner next.
> 
> Still a long way until the next round of TV rights though, so who knows where they'll be at by then. The contract clause stipulates Warner must pay more next time if they want to keep AEW.


?


----------



## NathanMayberry

Geert Wilders said:


> a 1h match is not going to attract the younger ADHD tiktok generation
> 
> we prefer our entertainment in 8 second segments


1 hour of anything let alone wrestling is gonna turn many young people away.


----------



## 3venflow

rlb85 said:


> ?


Year-on-year since the comparison was the two Winter is Coming shows. In general, 0.31 isn't much different than recently but way down from where they were earlier this year with numbers from 0.40 to 0.53.


----------



## .christopher.

So, last year

AEW had no Sting, CM Punk or Bryan Danielson

AND went head-to-head with NXT

& drew 913k. NXT drew 658k. So, over 1.5m people were watching wrestling that night.

This year AEW had Sting, CM Punk and Bryan Danielson, AND had no competition, and drew 948k viewers. Around 600k less people watching wrestling on Wednesdays.

Some growth, that.


----------



## Erik.

Geert Wilders said:


> a 1h match is not going to attract the younger ADHD tiktok generation
> 
> we prefer our entertainment in 8 second segments


It actually went up from last week when it came to younger men and women.


----------



## Geeee

I have a feeling the quarterly breakdowns are gonna be weird


----------



## Geert Wilders

.christopher. said:


> So, last year
> 
> AEW had no Sting, CM Punk or Bryan Danielson
> 
> AND went head-to-head with NXT
> 
> & drew 913k. NXT drew 658k. So, over 1.5m people were watching wrestling that night.
> 
> This year AEW had Sting, CM Punk and Bryan Danielson, AND had no competition, and drew 948k viewers. Around 600k less people watching wrestling on Wednesdays.
> 
> Some growth, that.


it was clear from before that NXT fans would not simply switch over and watch AEW. instead, they found something else to do.

Surely this was an eye opener for TNT and AEW.

At this stage, I do not think anything under 1 million is acceptable.


----------



## .christopher.

RapShepard said:


> Bryan and Hangman got some splainin to do


Anyone who knows wrestling knows what the problem was.

It was a combination of Page being a shit champion and AEW killing any star/draw power Bryan had left by not only wasting him in a draw match with Omega, but having him face jobbers every week.

Boggles my mind that some - including Tony Khan himself - doesn't get this.


----------



## 3venflow

Well, those who still swear by the total viewership for some reason should consider the rating pretty good since it is their highest in a month.

There's a 7-10% drop due to the west coast, so by previous standards it is equivalent to 1m+.

And 9% fewer people watch cable now compared to this time last year which coupled with the above offsets the NXT competition considerably.

But I think all the arguing over so few viewers in the big picture is pointless and no way to measure growth or decline based on all the variables and P2+ not mattering as much as it once did.

My view is the rating is disappointing because the 18-49 remains stagnant, even though viewership went up. If the show had done 900k and 0.42, I'd state the opposite.


----------



## .christopher.

Geert Wilders said:


> it was clear from before that NXT fans would not simply switch over and watch AEW. instead, they found something else to do.
> 
> Surely this was an eye opener for TNT and AEW.
> 
> At this stage, I do not think anything under 1 million is acceptable.


True, but signing Bryan and Punk had them reaching 1.4 for a segment or two. Only 100k less than that total.

The fans were there, and came to look, but the circus ran them off.


----------



## Erik.

Geert Wilders said:


> it was clear from before that NXT fans would not simply switch over and watch AEW. instead, they found something else to do.
> 
> Surely this was an eye opener for TNT and AEW.
> 
> At this stage, I do not think anything under 1 million is acceptable.


Factor in what TNT originally wanted for Dynamite when it came to ratings... 

And then factor in that there is 20% of the country that can't really watch Dynamite live from the get go if they are working humans. 

And tell yourself, if you lived on the West Coast of America and you finished work at 5pm, the exact same time Dynamite starts, are you going to travel home and the first thing you do is turn Dynamite on a quarter to half the way through? 

The number itself isn't bad. It's the demo that's the problem in this instance.


----------



## Geert Wilders

.christopher. said:


> True, but signing Bryan and Punk had them reaching 1.4 for a segment or two. Only 100k less than that total.
> 
> The fans were there, and came to look, but the circus ran them off.


Punk and Bryan are B+ players. They will not solely draw off their name alone. That is reserved for Stone Cold, The Rock, Hulk Hogan, and John Cena.





Erik. said:


> Factor in what TNT originally wanted for Dynamite when it came to ratings...
> 
> And then factor in that there is 20% of the country that can't really watch Dynamite live from the get go if they are working humans.
> 
> And tell yourself, if you lived on the West Coast of America and you finished work at 5pm, the exact same time Dynamite starts, are you going to travel home and the first thing you do is turn Dynamite on a quarter to half the way through?
> 
> The number itself isn't bad. It's the demo that's the problem in this instance.


I was not aware of this. Will this change soon?


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

Geert Wilders said:


> a 1h match is not going to attract the younger ADHD tiktok generation
> 
> we prefer our entertainment in 8 second segments


Step 1: Cut the entrances and just run 7 second squash matches where Bron Breakker yeets a vanilla midget into the stands for 2 hours.

Step 2: ?

Step 3: Profit!


----------



## Erik.

Geert Wilders said:


> I was not aware of this. Will this change soon?


When they move to TBS in a few weeks time, it'll go back to what it was previously.


----------



## rbl85

3venflow said:


> Year-on-year since the comparison was the two Winter is Coming shows. In general, 0.31 isn't much different than recently but way down from where they were earlier this year with numbers from 0.40 to 0.53.


Last year was the first Winter is coming, first always do better and the situation wasn't the same


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## .christopher.

Geert Wilders said:


> Punk and Bryan are B+ players. They will not solely draw off their name alone. That is reserved for Stone Cold, The Rock, Hulk Hogan, and John Cena.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was not aware of this. Will this change soon?


Of course they're not draws like Austin, Rock and Hogan, but they did draw, though. 400k people flocked over to give the show a look. They're not miracle workers, though, and couldn't get people to overlook how much of a mess the show is. The only talent that could get some to stick is The Rock. That's it. Even Hogan and Austin have lost their drawing power after years of pointless appearances.


----------



## RainmakerV2

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Step 1: Cut the entrances and just run 7 second squash matches where Bron Breakker yeets a vanilla midget into the stands for 2 hours.
> 
> Step 2: ?
> 
> Step 3: Profit!


I wholeheartedly approve of this style of booking


----------



## Geert Wilders

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Step 1: Cut the entrances and just run 7 second squash matches where Bron Breakker yeets a vanilla midget into the stands for 2 hours.
> 
> Step 2: ?
> 
> Step 3: Profit!





RainmakerV2 said:


> I wholeheartedly approve of this style of booking


this is what lesnar has basically done for 9 years now. WWE understand their audience better.


----------



## DammitChrist

.christopher. said:


> Anyone who knows wrestling knows what the problem was.
> 
> *It was a combination of Page being a shit champion and AEW killing any star/draw power Bryan had left by not only wasting him in a draw match with Omega, but having him face jobbers every week.*
> 
> Boggles my mind that some - including Tony Khan himself - doesn't get this.


Jeez, can you quit pretending that people "don't understand" this when it's pretty obvious that you don't get it considering the fact that the bolded is nothing more than your weird opinion (which isn't even accurate to begin with here)?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

3venflow said:


> It's pretty irrelevant in the big picture. 900k, 950k or 1m isn't going to make or break a TV deal. These are just numbers for prediction games and easier show to show comparisons. In the industry, they're less relevant metrics than they once were. Every year, cable loses millions of viewers anyway which is why the networks are desperate to hold on to any show that brings in younger viewers.
> 
> Dropping from 0.42 to 0.31 in the 18-49 is a big deal and not good. That demo is AEW's money maker and could be the difference between a $80m deal or $120m deal when they negotiate with Warner next.
> 
> Still a long way until the next round of TV rights though, so who knows where they'll be at by then. The contract clause stipulates Warner must pay more next time if they want to keep AEW.


I’m less focused on what advertisers want and more so on how many eyeballs are on the product. They have gained year over year generally in viewership and that uptrend is extremely important, especially when other shows are consistently down.

Of course last year they did have direct competition from NXT AND we were in the middle of the Jacksonville mostly-empty arena era.

Really we won’t get any fair comparisons until we’re comparing YoY July 2022 and on (to 2021 since that’s when the regular touring resumed), but for now the gains look good.

Though Im more concerned by the fact there’s hundreds of thousands of viewers that still haven’t fully returned. They were getting around 1.1 million weekly for awhile, and now they’re lucky to get within 200k of that. Maybe that changes when they’re on TBS. We’ll see.


----------



## Sherlok4

Wait…wait a minute these numbers don’t tell the real story…let’s factor in that the west coast was live so people couldn’t get home in time to watch and trust me the DVR numbers were super high as well, also power outages in the midwest and southwest that prevented AEW fans from watching live so in reality this show did like 1.7 million with a 0.6 in the 18-49 key demo

These are FACTS, just ask Tony Khan, he’ll tweet it soon


----------



## Prosper

Damn not a good demo, but that's still with all things considered. When they move to TBS I do expect an uptick when things are back to normal. We have no idea how many of the 18-49 West Coast folk are not able to be in front of their TV's 30 - 60 minutes into the show. But increasing overall viewership without live West Coast viewers is still nice to see.


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Sherlok4 said:


> Wait…wait a minute these numbers don’t tell the real story…let’s factor in that the west coast was live so people couldn’t get home in time to watch and trust me the DVR numbers were super high as well, also power outages in the midwest and southwest that prevented AEW fans from watching live so in reality this show did like 1.7 million with a 0.6 in the 18-49 key demo
> 
> These are FACTS, just ask Tony Khan, he’ll tweet it soon


Lmao.


----------



## Prosper

Sherlok4 said:


> Wait…wait a minute these numbers don’t tell the real story…let’s factor in that the west coast was live so people couldn’t get home in time to watch and trust me the DVR numbers were super high as well, also power outages in the midwest and southwest that prevented AEW fans from watching live so in reality this show did like 1.7 million with a 0.6 in the 18-49 key demo
> 
> These are FACTS, just ask Tony Khan, he’ll tweet it soon


What you don't realize is that all of what you said outside of the power outages is most likely true when you add in YT and streaming, probably more than 1.7 mil actually, so this is not really a good shot/mic drop towards Tony Khan.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

Sherlok4 said:


> Wait…wait a minute these numbers don’t tell the real story…let’s factor in that the west coast was live so people couldn’t get home in time to watch and trust me the DVR numbers were super high as well, also power outages in the midwest and southwest that prevented AEW fans from watching live so in reality this show did like 1.7 million with a 0.6 in the 18-49 key demo
> 
> These are FACTS, just ask Tony Khan, he’ll tweet it soon


I get you're joking but the West coast thing probably does have some impact. Even if day of DVR is factored in to total viewership (it is), wrestling is one of those things that's meant to be watched live like a sport and speaking for myself if it's dvr'd there's nowhere near the sense of urgency and I might leave it till the next day. 

I'm a big AEW fan but, 10 on a Friday is too late to watch Rampage for my mom and gf and so we just dvr it and I might go back and watch it on Saturday night around 7-8, save it for Sunday afternoon or even into the next week if there was something else going on. 

If 20% of the country is dvr'ing the show, maybe some people will watch it after dinner that night, maybe they'll watch it the next day, either way yeah it's gonna hit your overall numbers for day of.


----------



## yeahright2

Okay, so the ratings are in..Which means it´s time for the shameless plug for the ratings game
AEW Ratings prediction game

@LifeInCattleClass won this week.. 

But for once, the actual number isn´t that interesting, the quarter hours is gonna tell the story. To me, having Page and Bryan go broadway was a mistake. Do that as a blowoff match and announce it as an Iron man match, so people know what they´re getting. That´s NOT the opening match of a feud (let alone a TV Special)


----------



## .christopher.

Another thing is, last year, AEW ended on a great note of Omega screwing Moxley and Sting debuting. The following week saw a big increase in viewership as a result.

This year, however, AEW will probably face a drop next week as it was a lacklustre show.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

yeahright2 said:


> Okay, so the ratings are in..Which means it´s time for the shameless plug for the ratings game
> AEW Ratings prediction game
> 
> @LifeInCattleClass won this week..
> 
> But for once, the actual number isn´t that interesting, the quarter hours is gonna tell the story. To me, having Page and Bryan go broadway was a mistake. Do that as a blowoff match and announce it as an Iron man match, so people know what they´re getting. That´s NOT the opening match of a feud (let alone a TV Special)


*We know the plummet will be massive next week. It was a quarterly special with a world title match. They did what they were supposed to do. Next week, we'll see how many people they pissed off and turned away.*


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

yeahright2 said:


> Okay, so the ratings are in..Which means it´s time for the shameless plug for the ratings game
> AEW Ratings prediction game
> 
> @LifeInCattleClass won this week..
> 
> But for once, the actual number isn´t that interesting, the quarter hours is gonna tell the story. To me, having Page and Bryan go broadway was a mistake. Do that as a blowoff match and announce it as an Iron man match, so people know what they´re getting. That´s NOT the opening match of a feud (let alone a TV Special)


Yeah those quarter hours are gonna be really interesting. Apparently AEW generally retains or even grows more viewers for longer matches between top talent. 

Beyond the story of a new champ proving himself against one of the best in the world and coming up just short, this almost seems like a proof of concept for Tony, for whether or not long matches can draw in viewers. 

Guess we'll have to see if it pans out for him. 

At the very least he's trying different things and is trying to find out what works. The dude is a numbers guy and you know he's looking over all of these data points intently.


----------



## Erik.

Quarters are in.

Opened at 947,000 and by the end of the title match they were at 1,035,000.

Dropped nearly 200,000 viewers once the match ended though.. MJF match managed to recoup nearly 100,000 ending the night on 936,000.


----------



## 3venflow




----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

Proof of concept confirmed.


----------



## DammitChrist

That's weird.

I thought lengthy wrestling matches "didn't" draw though 😂


----------



## 3venflow

Biggest mistake Tony made was not making it a 2 hour match instead.


----------



## rbl85

3venflow said:


> Biggest mistake Tony made was not making it a 2 hour match instead.


What "killed" the rating was the combo : Commercial + video package + women match.


----------



## yeahright2

BrrrGoesWooo! said:


> Proof of concept confirmed.


Yep. The concept of 200K people tuning out because of a bad finish.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Two Sheds said:


> They also went against NXT last year, while this year had no wrestling competition. Not a good number.


The west coast feed wasn't playing at 5 in the afternoon either.

That first show on TBS is gonna be interesting. New channel, no more Challenge and a return to normal west coast time all on the same show.


----------



## DammitChrist

yeahright2 said:


> Yep. The concept of 200K people tuning out because of a bad finish.


Many of them *came back* though, so it was obviously fatigue; which is understandable since many fans were very invested in that world championship match.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Geert Wilders said:


> I was not aware of this. Will this change soon?


Yes. January 5, 2022 when they move to TBS.


----------



## elo

I get that it's tricky with time but seriously put your main event in the last slot and build to it throughout the night, both draws on TV have led to massive channel changing because they opened the show and gobbled up the energy of the audience. (it took me a solid 20 mins to get my focus back on the show)


----------



## ShadowCounter

The Legit DMD said:


> *We know the plummet will be massive next week. It was a quarterly special with a world title match. They did what they were supposed to do. Next week, we'll see how many people they pissed off and turned away.*


Could you be one of those people? Please?




yeahright2 said:


> Yep. The concept of 200K people tuning out because of a bad finish.


Or women's matches. A shame but possibly true.


----------



## 3venflow

yeahright2 said:


> Yep. The concept of 200K people tuning out because of a bad finish.


Doesn't make sense and sounds like confirmation bias. Look at the chart, only a few minutes (5 tops I would say) of Hangman vs. Danielson was in Q5 because it also had an ad break, Bucks/Cole promo and the entire Wardlow vs. Sydal match with Wardlow's entrance and Spears' post-match stuff.

So unless those final minutes of the match did something like 1.3m and everyone then switched off, leading to the rest of the quarter doing 700k or something, then the viewers stuck around for most, if not all of that quarter. They either tuned out late in Q5 or early in Q6 and it appears interest dropped just before or during the women's match.


----------



## One Shed

ShadowCounter said:


> The west coast feed wasn't playing at 5 in the afternoon either.
> 
> That first show on TBS is gonna be interesting. New channel, no more Challenge and a return to normal west coast time all on the same show.


I live on the west coast and always watch live. If you have satellite you can watch the east coast or west coast feed. So to say no one on the west coast watches it live is not true.


----------



## Prosper

Wow so they hit over a million viewers for 2 straight quarters, good to see. Pretty sharp drop afterwards though but people came back for the main event.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Two Sheds said:


> I live on the west coast and always watch live. If you have satellite you can watch the east coast or west coast feed. So to say no one on the west coast watches it live is not true.


Never said no one. But I doubt the vast majority follows your viewing pattern.


----------



## Erik.

I'm just pleased the WARDOG held viewers.

@Boldgerg


----------



## .christopher.

Wait, people are actually trying to make out that this is good? Despite the fact they were doing well over a million on normal Dynamites before Punk and Bryan had even arrived?

The lengths some go to, eh.


----------



## Agnes

ShadowCounter said:


> Never said no one. But I doubt the vast majority follows your viewing pattern.


They've done both high viewership and higher demo numbers since moving to the west coast. And this was suppose to be a big time, special show


----------



## DammitChrist

.christopher. said:


> Wait, people are actually trying to make out that this is good? Despite the fact they were doing well over a million on normal Dynamites before Punk and Bryan had even arrived?
> 
> The lengths some go to, eh.


We're including the West Coast viewers who are generally unable to tune in live, which is still a VALID explanation.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> View attachment 113352


dang… should’ve given them those ‘5 more minutes’


----------



## Erik.

Agnes said:


> They've done both high viewership and higher demo numbers since moving to the west coast. And this was suppose to be a big time, special show


They've not reached 1,000,000 total viewers since the West Coast change 8 weeks ago.... 

Yet before moving, they hit 1,000,000+ viewers in 11 of their previous 13 weeks. 

It's not a coincidence.

Moving to TBS will be a good indicator because it goes back to a normal timeslot.


----------



## One Shed

ShadowCounter said:


> Never said no one. But I doubt the vast majority follows your viewing pattern.


Sports is the one genre where there is a big live viewing factor.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Agnes said:


> They've done both high viewership and higher demo numbers since moving to the west coast. And this was suppose to be a big time, special show



Not exactly. See Erik above.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Just so we’re all on the same page here - normally a move to another channel leads to less viewers - we have proven numbers of this throughout wrestling and the last 3 years

moving channels, moving nights = less viewers

so, if the move to TBS brings more viewers, can we all agree the west coast thing had a significant effect on the last 2 months?

are we all that logical?


----------



## ShadowCounter

Two Sheds said:


> Sports is the one genre where there is a big live viewing factor.


Sports, yes. Wrestling, no. Other than a blip in the 80s and another in the late 90s wrestling has always been small-time.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*I tuned out after seeing the Dumb Fucks appear on the screen and 200k other people had the same idea. It's cool that MJF vs Dante brought them back though. Sucks for Shida and Serena to have to follow that garbage. *


----------



## Agnes

ShadowCounter said:


> Not exactly. See Erik above.


He said they haven't hit a million, which is true. I said they have done higher numbers than they did last night, which is also true. He's arguing a point I didn't even make.


----------



## Agnes




----------



## Agnes

How did Nov 17 do better in both viewers and demo if this is a west coast issue?


----------



## One Shed

ShadowCounter said:


> Sports, yes. Wrestling, no. Other than a blip in the 80s and another in the late 90s wrestling has always been small-time.


Man, the built in excuses are so frustrating and ignorant of history.


----------



## Agnes

Erik. said:


> They've not reached 1,000,000 total viewers since the West Coast change 8 weeks ago....
> 
> Yet before moving, they hit 1,000,000+ viewers in 11 of their previous 13 weeks.
> 
> It's not a coincidence.
> 
> Moving to TBS will be a good indicator because it goes back to a normal timeslot.


I didn't say anything about one million viewers. I said they've done higher viewership than this supposed big, special show since the west coast move.


----------



## Chelsea

First time I'm seeing that poll... It's been a while, huh?


----------



## Erik.

Agnes said:


> I didn't say anything about one million viewers. I said they've done higher viewership than this supposed big, special show since the west coast move.


One show has done better.

Who knows? Maybe the pacing and structure of the event was better meaning a lesser of drop to their potential average?

I don't even remember the November 17th event, I think it may have been the one where Shida was involved in the highest quarter which was over 1,000, 000 which is a stark contrast to her being in the worst quarter this week.


----------



## Dr. Middy

I'd assume the number would drop a ton after whenever the match ended, whether that be one hour or just 20 minutes, since that was the biggest match pushed on the show and one of the bigger matches they've done in the last few months. It is nice to see that people stayed for most of the match and even has some growth in viewership during it. 

The drop in viewership does make me assume that the draw had something to do with it, and it sucks for Shida/Deeb which was a really good match but also stylistically was similar to the title match. People did come back somewhat for MJF though, so him being a ratings mover is a pretty safe bet nowadays. 

I'm curious about the west coast stuff having some sort of play here. It always seems weird they dropped under a million and haven't really reached that point since then (and also weird that a random account which 6 posts suddenly is in here), but we'll see the difference this makes when they head over to TBS in a month or so.


----------



## .christopher.

Agnes said:


> How did Nov 17 do better in both viewers and demo if this is a west coast issue?


Because, erm, Vince McMahon temporarily freed a few thousand of his slaves for a night for good behaviour. He then got wind that they were watching AEW so he chained them all back up.

It definitely wasn't because the build for this special sucked hard so less people were interested in watching it.


Two Sheds said:


> Man, the built in excuses are so frustrating and ignorant of history.


Anything to excuse AEWs terrible ratings.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

NathanMayberry said:


> 1 hour of anything let alone wrestling is gonna turn many young people away.


Yep, even people in their twenties and thirties are going to be turned off of that. Committing to a one hour wrestling match is a huge ask in 2021.



Erik. said:


> When they move to TBS in a few weeks time, it'll go back to what it was previously.


Except if it doesn't in which case the ready made excuse will be "Not everyone knows AEW is on TBS yet! Just give it time!"



Prosper said:


> What you don't realize is that all of what you said outside of the power outages is most likely true when you add in YT and streaming, probably more than 1.7 mil actually, so this is not really a good shot/mic drop towards Tony Khan.


Sure, could be but if you want to play that game then you can't fist pump into the air when AEW beats RAW because RAW has a much larger YouTube audience, stream audience and international audience.



DammitChrist said:


> That's weird.
> 
> I thought lengthy wrestling matches "didn't" draw though 😂


They don't. a million or so smart marks love good wrestling matches, the other 9 million that have been chased away since 1999 aren't interested.

Hell, the 500k people that AEW has chased off since August or whenever Punk debuted weren't interested...


----------



## Prosper

Chip Chipperson said:


> Sure, could be but if you want to play that game then you can't fist pump into the air when AEW beats RAW because RAW has a much larger YouTube audience, stream audience and international audience.


You may remember the essay I made a year back explaining ratings and how they work to people who weren't sure in the ratings thread. My take was that RAW and SD were probably closer to 4.5 - 5 million if all mediums were considered within the US given their brand recognition. I then put AEW and NXT around 2 - 2.5 million total. You're not going to sell out arenas every week in RAW's case if only 1.7 million people were watching.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Surprised they were late on this


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1471639938630180866

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *I tuned out after seeing the Dumb Fucks appear on the screen and 200k other people had the same idea. It's cool that MJF vs Dante brought them back though. Sucks for Shida and Serena to have to follow that garbage. *


Dude, you’re probably an adult, and likely older than me (24).

Grow up already. It’s extremely hard to take you seriously in a real argument if you’re just going to use petty, childish nicknames for wrestlers you despise (even though they’re among the most talented guys in the company). Do better, dude.

Oh, by the way, I guess you’re displeased over the fact that the Young Bucks were part of the highest rated quarterly segment this week; which is hilarious since it completely negates your bold claims about them.

Edit:

Wait, this guy STILL doesn’t get how quarterly numbers work.

This guy is ACTUALLY blaming the Young Bucks for the drop even though many viewers continued to tune in for an additional 10 minutes after they appeared (in the highest rating for THAT quarter too) 😂

Just admit that you don’t understand how the quarterly ratings work. It’s less embarrassing this way.


----------



## 3venflow

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1471639938630180866


Thaty's a really strong start in both categories. Did it have a big lead-in on TNT?



DammitChrist said:


> Wait, this guy STILL doesn’t get how quarterly numbers work. This guy is ACTUALLY blaming the Young Bucks for the drop even though many viewers continued to tune in for an additional 10 minutes after they appeared


One thing I can't stand is intellectual dishonesty. People who know better but have such strong biases that they wiill twist and turn anything to try and hold on to their point.

It's not hard to type "maybe I was wrong about..." but that requires a lack of ego.

Blaming the Bucks for the decline is some insane mental gymnastics. A 100 second segment drove away hundreds of thousands. Ok. The entire quarter drew the same as the preceding quarter but only a few minutes of it was the world title match, which suggests fans were actually still watching until either very late in the quarter or very early in the following quarter.


----------



## DammitChrist

.christopher. said:


> Because, erm, Vince McMahon temporarily freed a few thousand of his slaves for a night for good behaviour. He then got wind that they were watching AEW so he chained them all back up.
> 
> It definitely wasn't because the build for this special sucked hard so less people were interested in watching it.
> 
> Anything to excuse AEWs terrible ratings.


Yep, anything to have an actual EXCUSE to turn a positive into a negative.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> One thing I can't stand is intellectual dishonesty. People who know better but have such strong biases that they wiill twist and turn anything to try and hold on to their point.
> 
> It's not hard to type "maybe I was wrong about..." but that requires a lack of ego.
> 
> Blaming the Bucks for the decline is some insane mental gymnastics. A 100 second segment drove away hundreds of thousands. Ok. The entire quarter drew the same as the preceding quarter but only a few minutes of it was the world title match, which suggests fans were actually still watching until either very late in the quarter or very early in the following quarter.


*Or, Hangman and Bryan peaked above the average because Twitter was talking about it getting near the time limit and everything else brought it down. I know that takes a little extra thinking and it might be asking too much, but go ahead and act like Wardlow squash matched the interest of a world title match while you cry about intellectual dishonesty.*


----------



## 3venflow

The Legit DMD said:


> Or, Hangman and Bryan peaked above the average because Twitter was talking about it getting near the time limit and everything else brought it down.


So let's say Hangman vs. Danielson shot up to 1.2m and that's being generous. That would mean the rest of the quarter hour did approximately 850,000, which would mean various segments and Serena vs. Shida then *gained* viewers after the Bucks or Sydal/Wardlow lost them. Does that sound likely?

It's more realistic that it played out something like this:

End of world title match: 1.15m
Ad break: Down to 950k
Bucks: Down to 920k
Wardlow vs. Sydal: Down to 890k
And then the next quarter.

Pure guesswork but that is the most likely, not 'lol 200,000 people turned off the TV when the Bucks had a (short) segment'. That is confirmation bias, not logical analysis.



> but go ahead and act like Wardlow squash matched the interest of a world title match while you cry about intellectual dishonesty.


Intellectual dishonesty =

Bucks follow that match = "Bucks lost viewers!"
Britt follows that match = "Britt retained viewers!"

And we know that's how it would be spun.

As for Wardlow vs. Sydal: It may have been that match or its aftermath that accelerated the viewer decline since the entire segment was around 3 1/2 to 4 minutes when you include Spears on the mic. Or it may have been Shida vs. Serena. We won't know without minute by minute numbers, but common sense says a brief Young Bucks segment to build a Rampage match did not single-handedly drive hundreds of thousands of viewers. It may have played *a* part but almost anything would've lost viewers after a big world title match given away on free TV.


----------



## DaSlacker

Apparently 1/6 of the US population lives on the west coast. So at a conservative estimate, let's say viewership is 8% down since October 27th. I worked it out that this is what the past 8 episodes would look like without the live issue:

At the side I've put the biggest match or pre hyped segment on the show. 

1.023 Page vs Danielson (Title) 
0.941 Dynamite Diamond Battle Royal
0.929 Cody vs Andrade (Street Fight)
0.969 Team Cody vs Team Black
1.062 Guevara vs Lethal, Post PPV
0.986 Contract Signing
0,948 Cassidy vs Miro
1.016 Dark Order vs The Elite (Halloween)


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

3venflow said:


> Intellectual dishonesty =
> 
> Bucks follow that match = "Bucks lost viewers!"
> Britt follows that match = "Britt retained viewers!"TV.


*And this desperate reaching tells you everything you need to know. I haven't given credit to Britt in over a month because she hasn't done shit in over a month. Imagine writing a thesis about intellectual dishonesty then posting this bullshit.*


----------



## Randy Lahey

3venflow said:


> View attachment 113352


lol Women’s wrestling SUCKS…

If TK cut every single women’s segment Dynanite would do much higher ratings


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> *And this desperate reaching tells you everything you need to know. I haven't given credit to Britt in over a month because she hasn't done shit in over a month. Imagine writing a thesis about intellectual dishonesty then posting this bullshit.*


His response is not even close to you desperately reaching by having the nerve to (falsely) blame the Young Bucks for that dip in viewership when they got about 90 seconds of TV time, AND when it’s already been demonstrated that they were part of the highest rated quarter last night while various wrestling fans continued to tune in 10 minutes after their backstage segment ended.

THAT is desperate reaching on your part at its finest. You need to work on being intellectually honest.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

Bucks always lose ratings. Most of the elite do.


----------



## DammitChrist

CenaBoy4Life said:


> Bucks always lose ratings. Most of the elite do.


Sure, that’s why the Young Bucks were part of the highest rated quarterly segment last night. Folks continued to tune in for 10+ minutes after their segment ended too.

It’s not even the first time this has happened with them too (debunking the absurd claim that they’ve “always lost ratings”).

Honestly, I’m baffled at the blind bias to them at this point.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo!

yeahright2 said:


> Yep. The concept of 200K people tuning out because of a bad finish.


Or was it that was the only match people were into, and people didn't care about a Wardlow squash match after watching a 60 minute clinic?


----------



## Hitman1987

I personally think AEW has peaked.

They started with a ready made anti-wwe fan base, a decent roster and an infinite budget.

They now have a great roster, including some big stars (Sting, Punk and Bryan), they still have an infinite budget, yet they can’t seem to maintain/grow their week to week audience whilst they are unopposed.

I just don’t see who they can bring in that is bigger than they’ve already brought in (Sting is Mr WCW and CM Punk and Bryan are Indy gods) and therefore I don’t know what they can do to grow and sustain their viewership as the current roster/booking isn’t doing it.


----------



## BestInTheWorld22

Geert Wilders said:


> not only this, a 1 hour match with no pay off.
> 
> WHY


Wouldn't be surprised if that one hour match kills a lot of interest in AEW, ain't nobody trying to watch super long matches like that


----------



## Erik.

Hitman1987 said:


> I personally think AEW has peaked.
> 
> They started with a ready made anti-wwe fan base, a decent roster and an infinite budget.
> 
> They now have a great roster, including some big stars (Sting, Punk and Bryan), they still have an infinite budget, yet they can’t seem to maintain/grow their week to week audience whilst they are unopposed.
> 
> I just don’t see who they can bring in that is bigger than they’ve already brought in (Sting is Mr WCW and CM Punk and Bryan are Indy gods) and therefore I don’t know what they can do to grow and sustain their viewership as the current roster/booking isn’t doing it.


That can only be confirmed when the majority of their business metrics decrease.

Until their merchandise sales plummet, PPV buys decrease year on year and their shows stop reaching 95%+ capacity - they haven't peaked or stopped growing.

Because at the moment viewership is up year on year despite cable viewership decreasing, their merch sales are up, PPV buy rates are up, ticket sales are up, social media number have increased.

You're trying to shortcut growth rather than just build a steady fanbase over time. It's far better to continue to build the brand and create loyal lifelong fans than to try to pop some people in cause it's hot cause those people aren't going to stay, as shown by every promotion falling apart when their biggest angle cooled off or their biggest star aging out. 

As much as a small section of people hope they would fail and peak, we know for the moment that's absolutely not true.


----------



## La Parka

Hitman1987 said:


> I personally think AEW has peaked.
> 
> They started with a ready made anti-wwe fan base, a decent roster and an infinite budget.
> 
> They now have a great roster, including some big stars (Sting, Punk and Bryan), they still have an infinite budget, yet they can’t seem to maintain/grow their week to week audience whilst they are unopposed.
> 
> I just don’t see who they can bring in that is bigger than they’ve already brought in (Sting is Mr WCW and CM Punk and Bryan are Indy gods) and therefore I don’t know what they can do to grow and sustain their viewership as the current roster/booking isn’t doing it.


I agree completely.

This is why the whole “well AEW has only been around for blah blah blah” argument was so poor. You only have one chance to make a first impression and anyone who was or is a wrestling fan has seen AEW and have decided it wasn’t for them. There have been a number of opportunities for AEW to capitalize on buzz and every time AEW throws a hail mary they immediately fumble the ball at the goal line by doing something silly like having Bryan wrestle some jackass who a few thousand people giggle at or have CM Punk wrestle a thousand no names on a card that has a comedy car crash match that make the few bte fans giggle and snicker.

AEW has capped it self at 800-950k viewers and will never get to raw/ smackdown total viewership and may struggle to ever get a million for three consecutive weeks again.

It’s a shame because this may be wrestling’s last chance to have a nationally televised program under something that isn’t WWE and instead of making a good show it’s just WWE with bad Indy habits mixed in.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> Surprised they were late on this
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1471639938630180866
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*The FTR/Lucha Brothers feud is a massive flop. It's just them trading wins with the same sequences, stupid finishes, and bad promos. There's no real life to it. I'm ready for FTR vs The Briscoes, because that'll at least garner emotional investment instead of "What is this shit?"*


LifeInCattleClass said:


> Just so we’re all on the same page here - normally a move to another channel leads to less viewers - we have proven numbers of this throughout wrestling and the last 3 years
> 
> moving channels, moving nights = less viewers
> 
> so, if the move to TBS brings more viewers, can we all agree the west coast thing had a significant effect on the last 2 months?
> 
> are we all that logical?


*No, you don't get to make that excuse when we were told all Spring and Summer that the TBS move wouldn't hurt them because it's in equal or greater homes than TNT. *



Erik. said:


> Because at the moment viewership is up year on year despite cable viewership decreasing, their merch sales are up, PPV buy rates are up, ticket sales are up, social media number have increased.


*These people will tell you AEW ratings are dropping because of cable in less homes, then turn around and say viewers are up year to year, so they're growing. As a reminder for those with short term memories: AEW was competing with NXT head to head last year, and are still doing similar numbers with no competition. This is NOT growth. Don't lie to inflate numbers one second just to complain about cable in less homes being a detriment the next.*


----------



## NathanMayberry

Those expecting the move to TBS to boost ratings are in for a rude awakening..

Hangman Page is a midcarder. This two year storyline didn't make or cement him as a star.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *The FTR/Lucha Brothers feud is a massive flop. It's just them trading wins with the same sequences, stupid finishes, and bad promos. There's no real life to it. I'm ready for FTR vs The Briscoes, because that'll at least garner emotional investment instead of "What is this shit?"
> 
> No, you don't get to make that excuse when we were told all Spring and Summer that the TBS move wouldn't hurt them because it's in equal or greater homes than TNT. *


like…. Do you even read bro?

or just shoot from the hip?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> like…. Do you even read bro?
> 
> or just shoot from the hip?


*Clearly you don't:*
LifeInCattleClass said:
Just so we’re all on the same page here - normally a move to another channel leads to less viewers - we have proven numbers of this throughout wrestling and the last 3 years

moving channels, moving nights = less viewers


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Clearly you don't:*
> LifeInCattleClass said:
> Just so we’re all on the same page here - normally a move to another channel leads to less viewers - we have proven numbers of this throughout wrestling and the last 3 years
> 
> moving channels, moving nights = less viewers


and the rest of the post there buddy?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> and the rest of the post there buddy?


*The rest of the post is negated by the preface of the built-in excuse that we were told would not be an issue several months ago when AEW was doing better ratings. Now that they've dropped massively for various reasons, including the Live at 5 on the West Coast, the channel switch is being used preemptively as a potential reason for more ratings drops. 

Just to be clear, no one here has said the West Coast time switch hasn't been an issue at all. We've only said that it's not as big as an issue as some people here are making it out to be. We've all acknowledged that it does have an effect on the ratings. I'd say about 100k on average.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *The rest of the post is negated by the preface of the built-in excuse that we were told would not be an issue several months ago when AEW was doing better ratings. Now that they've dropped massively for various reasons, including the Live at 5 on the West Coast, the channel switch is being used preemptively as a potential reason for more ratings drops.
> 
> Just to be clear, no one here has said the West Coast time switch hasn't been an issue at all. We've only said that it's not as big as an issue as some people here are making it out to be. We've all acknowledged that it does have an effect on the ratings. I'd say about 100k on average.*


you are definitely not comprehending my post, reading words that are not there

now, the question is should i explain it or let you stew a bit?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you are definitely not comprehending my post, reading words that are not there
> 
> now, the question is should i explain it or let you stew a bit?


*Your words are right there in plain sight. You are using the channel switch as an excuse for AEW potentially getting less viewers so that if they go up, you can point to all their recent failures as a result of the West Coast switch instead of the poor booking of the program.*


----------



## holy

People bring up the % of viewers that are cutting cable on a year-to-year basis as a reason for why AEW is losing viewers, but they don't bring up the fact that after Daniel Bryan debuted, Dynamite had 1.3 million viewers for the episode that featured his first Dynamite appearance, and it was their second highest viewership ever at that point. 

To go from 1.3 million viewers to 800-900k viewers, in a span of 3 months, is worrisome....that too for a major episode like Winter is Coming that was based around Daniel Bryan in a world championship match. 

Ideally, if Bryan's Dynamite debut was 1.3 million viewers for the episode, then his major World Championship match should've been closer to 1.5 million viewers for the episode (Winter is Coming)...not 900k.

Something has gone wrong somewhere!


----------



## Erik.

The Legit DMD said:


> *These people will tell you AEW ratings are dropping because of cable in less homes, then turn around and say viewers are up year to year, so they're growing. As a reminder for those with short term memories: AEW was competing with NXT head to head last year, and are still doing similar numbers with no competition. This is NOT growth. Don't lie to inflate numbers one second just to complain about cable in less homes being a detriment the next.*



You know both things can be true right? 

That cable is in 9% less homes per year and AEW can go up year on year right? 

If the numbers go up, it's growth, you don't get to caveat it with "oh but NXT", AEW and NXT never had similar fanbases in the first place and that's always been pointed out. 

The main competition for AEW is the NBA and Challenge. And theyre regularly below both.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Erik. said:


> You know both things can be true right?
> 
> That cable is in 9% less homes per year and AEW can go up year on year right?
> 
> If the numbers go up, it's growth, you don't get to caveat it with "oh but NXT", AEW and NXT never had similar fanbases in the first place and that's always been pointed out.
> 
> The main competition for AEW is the NBA and Challenge. And theyre regularly below both.


* This is hilarious. Now all of a sudden they went from competition to not having the same audience. You can't make this stuff up. So, we're supposed to believe that after WrestleMania, 200k people just had an epiphany that they should watch AEW. It had nothing to do with NXT moving to Tuesday. *


----------



## Erik.

The Legit DMD said:


> * This is hilarious. Now all of a sudden they went from competition to not having the same audience. You can't make this stuff up. So, we're supposed to believe that after WrestleMania, 200k people just had an epiphany that they should watch AEW. It had nothing to do with NXT moving to Tuesday. *


I didn't say they had competition with NXT.

You did.

Are AEWs ratings up this year compared to last year, yes or no?

Pretty simple question.

If that answer is yes, they haven't peaked and to even suggest they have shows a lack of knowledge on how business works and a blind hatred towards something that's succeeded beyond what they would have thought.


----------



## Erik.

holy said:


> People bring up the % of viewers that are cutting cable on a year-to-year basis as a reason for why AEW is losing viewers, but they don't bring up the fact that after Daniel Bryan debuted, Dynamite had 1.3 million viewers for the episode that featured his first Dynamite appearance, and it was their second highest viewership ever at that point.
> 
> To go from 1.3 million viewers to 800-900k viewers, in a span of 3 months, is worrisome....that too for a major episode like Winter is Coming that was based around Daniel Bryan in a world championship match.
> 
> Ideally, if Bryan's Dynamite debut was 1.3 million viewers for the episode, then his major World Championship match should've been closer to 1.5 million viewers for the episode (Winter is Coming)...not 900k.
> 
> Something has gone wrong somewhere!


That's sort of how TV works, bud. 

People tune in for a huge moments. Like the debut episode of Dynamite. Like Punks return. Bryans debut. That's normal.

It's like asking why the the NBA Finals does more viewers than regular season games. People are gonna watch the biggest moment, that's not a guarantee of them watching every week. 

It's why season premieres and season finales are usually the highest episodes of any show's given season.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *Your words are right there in plain sight. You are using the channel switch as an excuse for AEW potentially getting less viewers so that if they go up, you can point to all their recent failures as a result of the West Coast switch instead of the poor booking of the program.*


nnoooo buddy, i am not

i’m saying ‘normally a channel change means less viewers, SOOOOO if it climbs ABOVE the current level, we can agree that the last two months had a bigger impact than the 7% west coast or so everybody kept saying’

i’m not saying its gonna fall at all - i’m talking about when it climbs above a million again after the move

c’mon, hand in your literature and english books - i wanna mark your homework


----------



## holy

Erik. said:


> That's sort of how TV works, bud.
> 
> People tune in for a huge moments. Like the debut episode of Dynamite. Like Punks return. Bryans debut. That's normal.
> 
> It's like asking why the the NBA Finals does more viewers than regular season games. People are gonna watch the biggest moment, that's not a guarantee of them watching every week.
> 
> It's why season premieres and season finales are usually the highest episodes of any show's given season.


I'll give it to you that people tune in for the huge moments. 

BUT, as you mentioned, the NBA finals get more viewers than regular games....by that same token, shouldn't a Dynamite episode with a Daniel Bryan World championship match be getting a lot more viewers than a regular episode of Dynamite? 

The fans tuned in for the big moment of Daniel Bryan's Dynamite debut. Sure. But where are they just 3 months later, when he has a World Championship match?


----------



## Erik.

holy said:


> I'll give it to you that people tune in for the huge moments.
> 
> BUT, as you mentioned, the NBA finals get more viewers than regular games....by that same token, shouldn't a Dynamite episode with a Daniel Bryan World championship match be getting a lot more viewers than a regular episode of Dynamite?
> 
> The fans tuned in for the big moment of Daniel Bryan's Dynamite debut. Sure. But where are they just 3 months later, when he has a World Championship match?


It had over a million by the end of it. And thats with the West Coast difference.

In all honesty, no one will ever know why it didn't get more. Maybe a world title match on TV is predictable? Maybe the card didn't entice people? Maybe those intrigued in a Bryan world title match were going to tune in for the second hour to see it only to realise it went on first?

There's no true way of knowing. But what you will find is that most of us have agreed that the number wasn't the best for a TV special. Especially the demo.

I reckon if they main event Revolution however, they'd break last year's Revolution buy rate. And that'd be a sign of further growth. 

You live and your learn, I guess.


----------



## BestInTheWorld22

NathanMayberry said:


> Those expecting the move to TBS to boost ratings are in for a rude awakening..
> 
> Hangman Page is a midcarder. This two year storyline didn't make or cement him as a star.


Agree, Hangman Page and the dark order make me want to change the channel. I was really digging AEW when Omega was champion. That hour long match Wednesday really killed a lot of my interest though in watching live.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

BestInTheWorld22 said:


> Agree, Hangman Page and the dark order make me want to change the channel. I was really digging AEW when Omega was champion. *That hour long match Wednesday really killed a lot of my interest though in watching live.*


because every week will have an hour long championship match?


----------



## THANOS

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/ri2hdx

Viewers loved Bryan/Hangman and tuned out once it concluded.


----------



## Hitman1987

Erik. said:


> That can only be confirmed when the majority of their business metrics decrease.
> 
> Until their merchandise sales plummet, PPV buys decrease year on year and their shows stop reaching 95%+ capacity - they haven't peaked or stopped growing.
> 
> Because at the moment viewership is up year on year despite cable viewership decreasing, their merch sales are up, PPV buy rates are up, ticket sales are up, social media number have increased.
> 
> You're trying to shortcut growth rather than just build a steady fanbase over time. It's far better to continue to build the brand and create loyal lifelong fans than to try to pop some people in cause it's hot cause those people aren't going to stay, as shown by every promotion falling apart when their biggest angle cooled off or their biggest star aging out.
> 
> As much as a small section of people hope they would fail and peak, we know for the moment that's absolutely not true.


If you are going to class the business as a whole then you have to take into account all of the year on year metrics, not just the merch sales, PPV sales etc, you also need to include the additional expenditure which I imagine has climbed considerably year on year due to signing people like Punk, Bryan, Sting and other ex-wwe guys who don’t come cheap as well as all the other expenditure costs for being on the road, then you can consider the profit gained against the money spent and see if there’s real growth. I doubt anybody will have those figures though.

I’m talking about AEW growing it’s audience outside of its core fan base. In this sense I believe they’ve peaked as they’ve played their biggest hands (Sting/Punk/Bryan/War games/4 horseman/belt collector/Open challenge/celeb plugs/MMA fighters etc) and they haven’t maintained the bumps because the surrounding product doesn’t have the quality to do so and I don’t know if they have any other big hands left to play that will draw non-core fans in that don’t already know about AEW. AEW have topped 1.2m viewership several times so there are people out there who are aware of their existence and interested in certain people in the roster, they just don’t like the rest of the show.

I’m happy to come back in a year though and discuss


----------



## Thomazbr

The answer is clear
It's time to have 2 hour matches.


----------



## 3venflow

Thomazbr said:


> The answer is clear
> It's time to have 2 hour matches.


Kenny vs. Hangman vs. Danielson 2-hour Iron Man Match


----------



## Dizzie

The audience stay tuned for bryan and switched because of the anti climatic draw which is easily as bad a dq that khan says aew is above doing leaving a sour taste in the fans mouths


----------



## THANOS

Dizzie said:


> The audience stay tuned for bryan and switched because of the anti climatic draw which is easily as bad a dq that khan says aew is above doing leaving a sour taste in the fans mouths


Or they just loved the match so much that nothing after could compare? There's no way to attribute definitely to the draw pissing people off.

The vast majority of reactions across social media, podcasts, Reddit loved the match and are fine with the draw.


----------



## .christopher.

THANOS said:


> Or they just loved the match so much that nothing after could compare? There's no way to attribute definitely to the draw pissing people off.
> 
> The vast majority of reactions across social media, podcasts, Reddit loved the match and are fine with the draw.


let's see then. If they're as happy as you say, there won't be a noticeable dip in viewership next week. After all, the Dynamite after last years winter is coming special gained viewers.


----------



## Dizzie

THANOS said:


> Or they just loved the match so much that nothing after could compare? There's no way to attribute definitely to the draw pissing people off.
> 
> The vast majority of reactions across social media, podcasts, Reddit loved the match and are fine with the draw.


I think a lot of fans were interested in seeing daniel bryan win the title and were just disappointed not to see it and if nothing could top the match afterwards, maybe it would have been to put it on last and do a dq or 30 minute time limit draw


----------



## Big Booty Bex

3venflow said:


> Kenny vs. Hangman vs. Danielson 2-hour Iron Man Match


More than two hours! The match will start on Dark, then continue on Elevation and Dynamite, and finally finish on Rampage. It's the right call, imo.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*"Growth" btw.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1471889601841152002*


THANOS said:


> Or they just loved the match so much that nothing after could compare? There's no way to attribute definitely to the draw pissing people off.
> 
> The vast majority of reactions across social media, podcasts, Reddit loved the match and are fine with the draw.


*We'll be able to do that next week when 100,000 fans don't come back.*


----------



## rbl85

Erik. said:


> It had over a million by the end of it. And thats with the West Coast difference.
> 
> In all honesty, no one will ever know why it didn't get more. Maybe a world title match on TV is predictable? Maybe the card didn't entice people? Maybe those intrigued in a Bryan world title match were going to tune in for the second hour to see it only to realise it went on first?
> 
> There's no true way of knowing. But what you will find is that most of us have agreed that the number wasn't the best for a TV special. Especially the demo.
> 
> I reckon if they main event Revolution however, they'd break last year's Revolution buy rate. And that'd be a sign of further growth.
> 
> You live and your learn, I guess.


Not everyone can watch a 60min match without tuning out for a few min


----------



## DammitChrist

Erik. said:


> It had over a million by the end of it. And thats with the West Coast difference.
> 
> In all honesty, no one will ever know why it didn't get more. Maybe a world title match on TV is predictable? Maybe the card didn't entice people? Maybe those intrigued in a Bryan world title match were going to tune in for the second hour to see it only to realise it went on first?
> 
> There's no true way of knowing. But what you will find is that most of us have agreed that the number wasn't the best for a TV special. Especially the demo.
> 
> I reckon if they main event Revolution however, they'd break last year's Revolution buy rate. And that'd be a sign of further growth.
> 
> You live and your learn, I guess.


Some folks are also forgetting that December has historically been a poor month where both WWE and AEW struggle more ratings-wise.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *"Growth" btw.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1471889601841152002
> We'll be able to do that next week when 100,000 fans don't come back.*


please take off your beautiful watches and mail them to me - nobody this sour can have that nice bling

address: LICC, positivity road

55 my mom‘s basement, neckbeard neighbourhood

6969


----------



## DammitChrist

Dizzie said:


> The audience stay tuned for bryan and switched because of the anti climatic draw which is easily as bad a dq that khan says aew is above doing leaving a sour taste in the fans mouths


Except for the fact that the audience continued to tune in for an additional 15 minutes (for the most part) after the world title match concluded, so no, you’re also wrong (along with that laughing individual) about “many” people switching after the opener concluded.


----------



## Sad Panda

LifeInCattleClass said:


> please take off your beautiful watches and mail them to me - nobody this sour can have that nice bling
> 
> address: LICC, positivity road
> 
> 55 my mom‘s basement, neckbeard neighbourhood
> 
> 6969


Legit made me laugh.

“That’s some good shit pal!”


----------



## Erik.

The Legit DMD said:


> *"Growth" btw.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1471889601841152002*


I believe you said:

*"We've all acknowledged that it does have an effect on the ratings. I'd say about 100k on average."*

Therefore, if we take your very own words into consideration and add on 100k viewers to the December viewership each week for this year we'd have:

1st December - 961,000
8th December - 972,000
15th December - 1,048,000

December, 2020 Avg. Viewership: 911,000
December, 2021 Avg. Viewership: 994,000

Growth. btw.


----------



## 3venflow

TNT's new press release shows how valued AEW and their strong demographic ratings are and how clueless some people are about how ratings work in 2021.

At the same time, I'm massively disappointed by Battle of the Belts being one-hour long. You can probably squeeze three title matches in, but like Rampage something in the middle has to be very short.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Erik. said:


> I believe you said:
> 
> *"We've all acknowledged that it does have an effect on the ratings. I'd say about 100k on average."*
> 
> Therefore, if we take your very own words into consideration and add on 100k viewers to the December viewership each week for this year we'd have:
> 
> 1st December - 961,000
> 8th December - 972,000
> 15th December - 1,048,000
> 
> December, 2020 Avg. Viewership: 911,000
> December, 2021 Avg. Viewership: 994,000
> 
> Growth. btw.





Erik. said:


> Are AEWs ratings up this year compared to last year, yes or no?
> 
> Pretty simple question.


* You already buried yourself by asking this question with no context. The answer is no.








*


----------



## Big Booty Bex

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 6969


----------



## Erik.

The Legit DMD said:


> * You already buried yourself by asking this question with no context. The answer is no.*


AEW Dynamite average viewership last year: *810,755* 

AEW Dynamite average viewership this year:* 887,580*


----------



## Erik.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1471910442201059329


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1471975513816289286
*Tony Khan is a complete moron. *


----------



## .christopher.

A child is running this thing. A spoilt child.


----------



## Whoanma

The Legit DMD said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1471975513816289286
> *Tony Khan is a complete moron. *


people can’t respond now?

you guys would have him sit quiet in his chair and spineless

article for those who want to stomach fox news









Jaguars' Urban Meyer drama, AEW excitement cooling off part of rough month for Khans


Billionaire NFL team owner Shad Khan has had a rough first 15 days of December between his business with the Jacksonville Jaguars and the family’s venture into professional wrestling with All Elite Wrestling.




www.foxnews.com


----------



## Erik.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> people can’t respond now?
> 
> you guys would have him sit quiet in his chair and spineless


Anyone who attacks the KKK FOX news is fine by me.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

THANOS said:


> The vast majority of reactions across social media, podcasts, Reddit loved the match and are fine with the draw.


Hangman could pull out a chair with a hole in it, pull his pants down and squeeze out a turd onto the ring canvas for an hour and Reddit/Social Media and even some podcasts would praise it.

They are not accurate opinions for the majority.



Erik. said:


> AEW Dynamite average viewership last year: *810,755*
> 
> AEW Dynamite average viewership this year:* 887,580*


Imagine calling 77,000 people growth.

How embarrassing.


----------



## DammitChrist

The Legit DMD said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1471975513816289286
> *Tony Khan is a complete moron. *


What's the matter? Did he hilariously roast a comment of yours on Twitter to utter humiliation or something?


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> people can’t respond now?
> 
> you guys would have him sit quiet in his chair and spineless
> 
> article for those who want to stomach fox news
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jaguars' Urban Meyer drama, AEW excitement cooling off part of rough month for Khans
> 
> 
> Billionaire NFL team owner Shad Khan has had a rough first 15 days of December between his business with the Jacksonville Jaguars and the family’s venture into professional wrestling with All Elite Wrestling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.foxnews.com


I mean he can respond, but it's best not to look so Dana White like and nothing in that article was really disparaging. They pointed out that Urban Meyer was being an ass and got fired and that AEW loss some momentum, but could get it back. I was expecting some Jim Cornette type comments




> AEW had a very successful summer with the acquisitions of CM Punk, Bryan Danielson and Adam Cole from WWE. AEW’s shows "Dynamite" and "Rampage" each popped with more than 1 million total viewers at their peaks.
> 
> "Dynamite" peaked at 1.319 million viewers Sept. 8 when Punk addressed fans for the first time since appearing at All Out. "Rampage" peaked at 1.129 million on Aug. 20 when Punk made his debut in Chicago.
> 
> Since then, things cooled off with "Rampage," attracting around 500,000 viewers. "Dynamite" attracted over 900,000 viewers Wednesday for the first time since mid-November thanks to its "Winter is Coming" special
> 
> AEW will look to build upon some of the momentum it gained toward the end of 2021. AEW will have a lot of time to build up its top stars as its first PPV of 2022 isn’t set until March.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Erik. said:


> AEW Dynamite average viewership last year: *810,755*
> 
> AEW Dynamite average viewership this year:* 887,580*












__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1385749065477103619


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> I mean he can respond, but it's best not to look so Dana White like and nothing in that article was really disparaging. They pointed out that Urban Meyer was being an ass and got fired and that AEW loss some momentum, but could get it back. I was expecting some Jim Cornette type comments


yeah, because billionaires are known for being stable and non-confrontational and most importantly, worrying about ‘not a good look’

lolllz

for reals though - what does AEW have to do with the urban stuff - they just tacked it on for clicks


----------



## Erik.

The Legit DMD said:


> View attachment 113452
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1385749065477103619


I believe you said:

*"We've all acknowledged that it does have an effect on the ratings. I'd say about 100k on average."*

Therefore, if we take your very own words into consideration and add on 100k viewers to the December viewership each week for this year we'd have:

1st December - 961,000
8th December - 972,000
15th December - 1,048,000

December, 2020 Avg. Viewership: 911,000
December, 2021 Avg. Viewership: 994,000


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yeah, because billionaires are known for being stable and non-confrontational and most importantly, worrying about ‘not a good look’
> 
> lolllz


Well I mean most CEOs do tend to play it pretty safe, at least here. Most aren't bold like your boy Elon. I think it plays better if he lets the more feisty tweets ring off from the AEW social media account versus his own.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Well I mean most CEOs do tend to play it pretty safe, at least here. Most aren't bold like your boy Elon. I think it plays better if he lets the more feisty tweets ring off from the AEW social media account versus his own.


nah, i like a full of fire guy over a meek silent one

personal preference of course


----------



## DaSlacker

Let's be honest. If Twitter was a thing in the 80's and 90's, Vince McMahon would have been on there making snide remarks about NBC/Fox when they booted his product off air and Ted Turner and Eric Bischoff when they were taking all the talent.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> nah, i like a full of fire guy over a meek silent one
> 
> personal preference of course


Nah of course


----------



## Chip Chipperson

The Legit DMD said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1471975513816289286
> *Tony Khan is a complete moron. *


I guarantee the FOX News programs don't have the same overhead as Tony. Remember, Adam Cole, Bryan Danielson and CM Punk alone probably cost him over the 10 million dollar a year mark.


----------



## InfamousGerald

The Legit DMD said:


> View attachment 113452
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1385749065477103619


You're probably the biggest loser on this thread mate. I remember on Twitter you got ratio'd badly on one of your tweets lolll, the irony of this post


----------



## InfamousGerald

Chip Chipperson said:


> Imagine calling 77,000 people growth.
> 
> How embarrassing.


You're very biased wow, it's so transparent. Imagine hating on them growing viewers while cable is declining every year


----------



## THANOS

The Legit DMD said:


> *"Growth" btw.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1471889601841152002*
> *We'll be able to do that next week when 100,000 fans don't come back.*


You know, the West Coast start time difference is very much a thing. The ratings have been down 200-300k since the switch. That much is evident. When it switches back, the viewers will 'magically' return. Just watch and see.

Also,


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1471910442201059329


----------



## PhenomenalOne11




----------



## WrestleFAQ

Chip Chipperson said:


> I guarantee the FOX News programs don't have the same overhead as Tony. Remember, Adam Cole, Bryan Danielson and CM Punk alone probably cost him over the 10 million dollar a year mark.


It's not even a truthful statement from Tony Khan. Tucker Carlson Tonight does 3.5-4 million viewers nightly -- about 4x Dynamite's audience. In fact, every prime time program on FOX News draws multiples of Dynamite's viewership figure. This is just a whiny rant from a spoiled rich kid who's clearly in over his head.

Tony Khan is the Paris Hilton of pro wrestling.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

InfamousGerald said:


> You're very biased wow, it's so transparent. Imagine hating on them growing viewers while cable is declining every year


I'm not really biased at least not in that statement. You've got people trying to call 77,000 people growth. In terms of ratings that is nothing.


----------



## CM Buck

DammitChrist said:


> What's the matter? Did he hilariously roast a comment of yours on Twitter to utter humiliation or something?


Don't attack the poster attack the fact he is using fox news as an argument.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

WrestleFAQ said:


> It's not even a truthful statement from Tony Khan. Tucker Carlson Tonight does 3.5-4 million viewers nightly -- about 4x Dynamite's audience. In fact, every prime time program on FOX News draws multiples of Dynamite's viewership figure. This is just a whiny rant from a spoiled rich kid who's clearly in over his head.
> 
> Tony Khan is the Paris Hilton of pro wrestling.


Nah he's worse than Paris Hilton. She at least seemed like she was moderately aware that she was an entitled brat.


----------



## bdon

AEW needs the anti-WWE stench off them and quickly. Bring back Mox and Kenny already.


----------



## ThunderNitro

The key to AEW putting more butts in the seats is Tony Kahn firing his creative team and hiring all of the experts on this forum.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Here’s to hoping for no more 1 hour draws on televisions. 🍻


----------



## RapShepard

ThunderNitro said:


> The key to AEW putting more butts in the seats is Tony Kahn firing his creative team and hiring all of the experts on this forum.


Seeing as Tony used to be on message boards and he out draws some places, this isn't a farfetched thought.


----------



## DaSlacker

ThunderNitro said:


> The key to AEW putting more butts in the seats is Tony Kahn firing his creative team and hiring all of the experts on this forum.


Definitely not. What wrestling needs is a different, well thought out perspective from genuinely talented, high intelligent writers and producers who have never been in the bubble. Hell, it needs executive producers who admire the genre but aren't marks and want to take it in a new direction that aims at the masses. 

WWE and AEW are too much toys for very very wealthy autocratic manchildren stuck in the 20th century.


----------



## WrestleFAQ

Here's my question . . .

Does Tony Khan want growth and profit, or does he want to run a professional wrestling organization in his own preferred style, as if he's playing the world's most expensive game of Total Extreme Wrestling?

After two years, it's clear these two things are are mutually exclusive. What Tony Khan wants -- what he's given us for two years -- is not growing beyond the smelly, booger-eating neckbeards. If he ever wants more, he's going to have to become an empathetic promoter and give the (potential) fans what they want, instead of selfishly only giving himself what he wants.


----------



## .christopher.

bdon said:


> AEW needs the anti-WWE stench off them and quickly. Bring back Mox and Kenny already.


 "AEW needs the anti-WWE stench off them and quickly"

" Bring back former WWE champion Moxley "

You can't make this shit up.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

WrestleFAQ said:


> Here's my question . . .
> 
> Does Tony Khan want growth and profit, or does he want to run a professional wrestling organization in his own preferred style, as if he's playing the world's most expensive game of Total Extreme Wrestling?
> 
> After two years, it's clear these two things are are mutually exclusive. What Tony Khan wants -- what he's given us for two years -- is not growing beyond the smelly, booger-eating neckbeards. If he ever wants more, he's going to have to become an empathetic promoter and give the (potential) fans what they want, instead of selfishly only giving himself what he wants.


your logic is out of whack - they are growing the same way WWE is - internationally

not everything is about American ratings / its not the only ‘growth’ out there


----------



## Erik.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> your logic is out of whack - they are growing the same way WWE is - internationally
> 
> not everything is about American ratings / its not the only ‘growth’ out there


7 years after being founded, TNA tried to get into another level and failed horribly. Even their supposedly loyal fanbase got sick of it and left.

So yeah, 2 years are still too early for AEW to shortcut growth. I think AEW is doing the right thing by taking it slow but steadily establish its brand.

Get that loyal fanbase in North America which is your bread and butter whilst importantly growing that international fanbase which is where external growth and money is going to come from.. 

And this is the main thing people always ignore. The worst assumption promoters and old school fans make is that fans who are already there are mindless sheep that will watch no matter what so you just need to chase new ones.

It ALWAYS backfires because fans aren't addicts and they aren't going to just watch whatever you give them. It happens every single time yet no one ever wants to learn the lesson because wrestling is inherently a carny business that thinks their core fanbase are idiots.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

ThunderNitro said:


> The key to AEW putting more butts in the seats is Tony Kahn firing his creative team and hiring all of the experts on this forum.


Gimme the book Tony. I can finally put the strap on Kid Romeo.


----------



## bdon

.christopher. said:


> "AEW needs the anti-WWE stench off them and quickly"
> 
> " Bring back former WWE champion Moxley "
> 
> You can't make this shit up.


No, I get that, but Moxley segments never feel like overproduced WWE angles. I am no “AEW is perfect, rah rah rah” guy. I have noticed a massive cultural change in Dynamite in the last 3 months or so, and I’ve not watched a single episode from start to finish since the first Dynamite following Full Gear, because I said it then: everything feels a little more WWE than before.

I have my issues with Mox as well, but his segments, for better or worse (and I oftentimes thought they were bad), at least felt “different” if that makes sense. Like he wasn’t following a style of television that Vince had taught him.

Hope that makes sense and doesn’t further suggest I’m a rah rah AEW guy.


----------



## bdon

Erik. said:


> 7 years after being founded, TNA tried to get into another level and failed horribly. Even their supposedly loyal fanbase got sick of it and left.
> 
> So yeah, 2 years are still too early for AEW to shortcut growth. I think AEW is doing the right thing by taking it slow but steadily establish its brand.
> 
> Get that loyal fanbase in North America which is your bread and butter whilst importantly growing that international fanbase which is where external growth and money is going to come from..
> 
> And this is the main thing people always ignore. The worst assumption promoters and old school fans make is that fans who are already there are *mindless sheep that will watch no matter what so you just need to chase new ones.*
> 
> It ALWAYS backfires because fans aren't addicts and they aren't going to just watch whatever you give them. It happens every single time yet no one ever wants to learn the lesson because wrestling is inherently a carny business that thinks their core fanbase are idiots.


And I have sensed this since the moment Bryan came. It was fun watching he and Omega do their thing, but I suspected he’d work his way up the charts, not become the star attraction in the feud with the world champion. Either make Bryan the champ or treat Hangman like the main attraction. Failure to do one or the other does a disservice to both: Bryan loses his luster as “the best in the world” in the eyes of his built-in fanbase, and it doesn’t capitalize on those new eyes being conditioned to think of Hangman as a star capable of carrying a program, just getting dragged along for the ride with Bryan.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

This is what happens when everyone has creative control and wont put anyone over. CM Punk is beating up QT marshmallow. The hottest free agent of the past decade is now feuding with a fat slob yonker in Kingston who hasnt lift a weight in that last decade. This is just a PWG love fest circle jerk for Tiny Khan.

Fucking do a Goldberg and make Punk the champ off the bat or have him in a serious long freaking feud with anyone. Its a bit late now you have this fuckboy cowboy hipster that is a side character from YellowStone stinking up the joint and the young cucks with their third skinny fat midget brother Cole.

Khan is so afraid to alienate the elite, and piss off his mark fans to do what needs to be done to be successful.


----------



## DammitChrist

CenaBoy4Life said:


> This is what happens when everyone has creative control and wont put anyone over. CM Punk is beating up QT marshmallow. The hottest free agent of the past decade is now feuding with a fat slob yonker in Kingston who hasnt lift a weight in that last decade. This is just a PWG love fest circle jerk for Tiny Khan.
> 
> Fucking do a Goldberg and make Punk the champ off the bat or have him in a serious long freaking feud with anyone. Its a bit late now you have this fuckboy cowboy hipster that is a side character from YellowStone stinking up the joint and the young cucks with their third skinny fat midget brother Cole.
> 
> Khan is so afraid to alienate the elite, and piss off his mark fans to do what needs to be done to be successful.


No, the idea of rushing CM Punk into becoming the AEW World Champion already instead of Adam Page to disregard good storylines (that generally make sense) sounds awful.

By the way, a HUGE no thanks to any idea where the Elite get depushed or demoted.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

Good storyline is debatable and the guy reeks of midcard. His ceiling is where Sammy is.

Oh! Why not make Punk TNT champion when he debuted and instantly start hot feuds over the title? Nah lets give it to the guy that wants to rape sasha.


----------



## thorn123

The more AEW try to placate lapsed fed fans, the more they will alienate their own fans.

Like I say every week, no booking or signing will move the needle unless it’s an NWO level angle or the rock.


----------



## RainmakerV2

thorn123 said:


> The more AEW try to placate lapsed fed fans, the more they will alienate their own fans.
> 
> Like I say every week, no booking or signing will move the needle unless it’s an NWO level angle or the rock.



Oh bullshit. Their deep hardcore fanbase will watch whatever they put on. Even deep down if they don't like it they'll swallow it and act like they do because it's "Not the evil fed. "


----------



## thorn123

RainmakerV2 said:


> Oh bullshit. Their deep hardcore fanbase will watch whatever they put on. Even deep down if they don't like it they'll swallow it and act like they do because it's "Not the evil fed. "


I would say for dynamite, there would be 500k “hard core fans”, as you say. So that would be half a mill drop (including me).


----------



## RainmakerV2

thorn123 said:


> I would say for dynamite, there would be 500k “hard core fans”, as you say. So that would be half a mill drop (including me).



No way dude. If they didn't fall to 500k with some of those godawful pandemic Dynamites when their roster didn't have half the talent they do now, it won't ever.


----------



## bdon

RainmakerV2 said:


> Oh bullshit. Their deep hardcore fanbase will watch whatever they put on. Even deep down if they don't like it they'll swallow it and act like they do because it's "Not the evil fed. "


Core audience of 500k or so? Sure.

I haven’t watched a full episode since the first Dynamite after Full Gear, because the show is leaning too heavily towards WWE-style. I left wrestling 2 decades ago, and I’ll gladly do it again if AEW stops feeling different.


----------



## DammitChrist

RainmakerV2 said:


> *Oh bullshit. Their deep hardcore fanbase will watch whatever they put on.* Even deep down if they don't like it they'll swallow it and act like they do because it's "Not the evil fed. "


Nah, that's bull, dude. ALL of this is bull.

That's exactly what some WWE fans said about the hardcore audience back in 2014 (about how they'd "always watch no matter what") only to have millions of more fans prove them wrong by tuning out over the next several years.

You're SUPPOSED to keep catering to the hardcore audience by keeping them happy in some major way.

This shouldn't even be questioned at this point. There's no argument to be had here.

Casual fans aren't always reliable nor are they even guaranteed either; so you do NOT want to risk pissing off your hardcore fans, or else it'll just cause a lot of damage ratings-wise in the long term.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

RainmakerV2 said:


> Oh bullshit. Their deep hardcore fanbase will watch whatever they put on. Even deep down if they don't like it they'll swallow it and act like they do because it's "Not the evil fed. "


Playing devil's advocate here..... people said the same thing about TNA fans and we saw what eventually happened there.


----------



## BroncoBuster3

RainmakerV2 said:


> Oh bullshit. Their deep hardcore fanbase will watch whatever they put on. Even deep down if they don't like it they'll swallow it and act like they do because it's "Not the evil fed. "


You’re not wrong. These same people defended and deeply justified Marko Stunt and the rest of the embarrassing shit AEW regularly did and still does. They’ll enjoy anything that happens on a show with AEW in the name


----------



## CovidFan

BroncoBuster3 said:


> You’re not wrong. These same people defended and deeply justified Marko Stunt and the rest of the embarrassing shit AEW regularly did and still does. They’ll enjoy anything that happens on a show with AEW in the name


Rainmaker seems to think that AEW's "hardcore fan base" is what they've been doing recently (800-900k). Have you seen 800k-900k people defend stupid shit from AEW. I haven't. Obviously the hardcore fans can be driven away. Based on prior examples and simple logic, it seems lol to suggest that they can't.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> Core audience of 500k or so? Sure.
> 
> I haven’t watched a full episode since the first Dynamite after Full Gear, because the show is leaning too heavily towards WWE-style. I left wrestling 2 decades ago, and I’ll gladly do it again if AEW stops feeling different.


me too - last two Dynamites i just kinda skimmed through

I'm starting to think a lot of the WWE-feeling is because Danielson is so prominent - he was top of the card at the Fed just the other day

but, on the flip side, they are still heavily wrestling focused, which is good

problem is, what I think is 'stupid shit' and what guys like Rainkmaker think is 'stupid shit' that drives people away is two different things

the more fed-like they get, the less I'll watch - i needz my AEW style

upcoming Christmas episode looks very promising


----------



## ElTerrible

RainmakerV2 said:


> Oh bullshit. Their deep hardcore fanbase will watch whatever they put on. Even deep down if they don't like it they'll swallow it and act like they do because it's "Not the evil fed. "


 Well there are still 1.6M watching Raw and Stockholm only has 975k inhabitants, so explain that.


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> me too - last two Dynamites i just kinda skimmed through
> 
> I'm starting to think a lot of the WWE-feeling is because Danielson is so prominent - he was top of the card at the Fed just the other day
> 
> but, on the flip side, they are still heavily wrestling focused, which is good
> 
> problem is, what I think is 'stupid shit' and what guys like Rainkmaker think is 'stupid shit' that drives people away is two different things
> 
> the more fed-like they get, the less I'll watch - i needz my AEW style
> 
> upcoming Christmas episode looks very promising


I don’t even mind Bryan’s segments, because despite being a prominent figure in the WWE over the last decade, I may have watched him wrestle 3-4 times in totality prior to him showing up in AEW. When I say I didn’t watch wrestling at all for 2 decades, other than when Sting was Joker and “bringing back Hulkster” and his short stint in WWE) I mean…I DID NOT WATCH WWE. So, it isn’t a question of me seeing him and linking him directly with WWE.

My issue is the entire way the show is put together has taken a bit of a character change. I know you remember me bringing this up at the Dynamite immediately after Full Gear, but it seems that TK’s “taking turns” with allowing the EVP’s to produce the shows. The last year or so has been heavily favored in the Bucks and Kenny’s style of shoes and television, which seemed to have them really gaining momentum, but the last 3 months (despite getting my fix in seeing the Kenny and Bryan masterpiece), the show has taken a more traditional, WWE-style television show.

Maybe it is too much Cody and maybe (I’m leaning more this way) it is too many very recently ex-WWE guys entering the fray and using their creative “freedom” to just do what they want with their characters…whilst still maintaining a certain style of television that Vince and the E have taught them IS wrestling?

I’m just spit-balling here, but MJF and Darby segments don’t “feel” like MJF and Darby segments. Jungle Boy feels like he’s being forced to play a character. The same can be said of Griff and Pillman.

And…the ratings are beginning to reect That change in style. @Mr316 , do you agree with my take? How about you @LifeInCattleClass ?


----------



## .christopher.

bdon said:


> No, I get that, but Moxley segments never feel like overproduced WWE angles. I am no “AEW is perfect, rah rah rah” guy. I have noticed a massive cultural change in Dynamite in the last 3 months or so, and I’ve not watched a single episode from start to finish since the first Dynamite following Full Gear, because I said it then: everything feels a little more WWE than before.
> 
> I have my issues with Mox as well, but his segments, for better or worse (and I oftentimes thought they were bad), at least felt “different” if that makes sense. Like he wasn’t following a style of television that Vince had taught him.
> 
> Hope that makes sense and doesn’t further suggest I’m a rah rah AEW guy.


That's completely fair, and I didn't mean to insinuate that you were a "rah rah AEW guy", so sorry about that!

To me, though, Mox, and AEW in general, has never felt that much different to the WWE, but to each their own, brother.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> I don’t even mind Bryan’s segments, because despite being a prominent figure in the WWE over the last decade, I may have watched him wrestle 3-4 times in totality prior to him showing up in AEW. When I say I didn’t watch wrestling at all for 2 decades, other than when Sting was Joker and “bringing back Hulkster” and his short stint in WWE) I mean…I DID NOT WATCH WWE. So, it isn’t a question of me seeing him and linking him directly with WWE.
> 
> My issue is the entire way the show is put together has taken a bit of a character change. I know you remember me bringing this up at the Dynamite immediately after Full Gear, but it seems that TK’s “taking turns” with allowing the EVP’s to produce the shows. The last year or so has been heavily favored in the Bucks and Kenny’s style of shoes and television, which seemed to have them really gaining momentum, but the last 3 months (despite getting my fix in seeing the Kenny and Bryan masterpiece), the show has taken a more traditional, WWE-style television show.
> 
> Maybe it is too much Cody and maybe (I’m leaning more this way) it is too many very recently ex-WWE guys entering the fray and using their creative “freedom” to just do what they want with their characters…whilst still maintaining a certain style of television that Vince and the E have taught them IS wrestling?
> 
> I’m just spit-balling here, but MJF and Darby segments don’t “feel” like MJF and Darby segments. Jungle Boy feels like he’s being forced to play a character. The same can be said of Griff and Pillman.
> 
> And…the ratings are beginning to reect That change in style. @Mr316 , do you agree with my take? How about you @LifeInCattleClass ?


i kinda do - it started for me with the 20min mfj / punk promo

felt a little off after that - i can see what you mean with the ex-wwe guys also having freedom, that we fall a bit into trappings of traditional wwe style, cause that is all they know

darby still feels like darby though. JB is maybe a bit muddled because of Christian, and mjf / punk is pure wwe.

we’ll see how it goes though, i have high hopes for the owen cup and the road to revolution


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i kinda do - it started for me with the 20min mfj / punk promo
> 
> felt a little off after that - i can see what you mean with the ex-wwe guys also having freedom, that we fall a bit into trappings of traditional wwe style, cause that is all they know
> 
> darby still feels like darby though. JB is maybe a bit muddled because of Christian, and mjf / punk is pure wwe.
> 
> we’ll see how it goes though, i have high hopes for the owen cup and the road to revolution


It isn’t lost on me that the more they have “tried” (whether by design or corcumstance) to be more WWE and traditional…the ratings have took a bit of a hit and lost the momentum that had been building this entire year.


----------



## thorn123

All of this talk about Dynamite heading towards WWE lite may be true, but it still good seeing fresh faces, fresh matchups and a fresh coat of paint of some old faces. Not to mention actual storytelling in matches. Wrestling tropes are exactly that and will show up in all promotions From time to time. I am not trying to convince anyone, but dynamite is still the best wrestling option.


----------



## Prized Fighter

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i kinda do - it started for me with the 20min mfj / punk promo
> 
> felt a little off after that - i can see what you mean with the ex-wwe guys also having freedom, that we fall a bit into trappings of traditional wwe style, cause that is all they know
> 
> darby still feels like darby though. JB is maybe a bit muddled because of Christian, and mjf / punk is pure wwe.
> 
> we’ll see how it goes though, i have high hopes for the owen cup and the road to revolution


It is the pacing of the show that feels different to me. AEW's charm comes with the fact they don't let you breath. There is a variety of styles, but each segments hits one after the other. Since Full Gear, it feels like that pacing has slowed. The Punk/MJF segments are definitely the biggest reason since they are doing long in ring promos and pre/post match promos as well.

I also losing Mox, Omega, Miro and Jericho takes away some top veteran talent.


----------



## Soul Rex

The worst thing about this show is lack of continuity, there is not single one thing in the show that I want to watch every week, it's a mess, too many wrestlers, too much stuff we don't give a shit about.

WWE is trash at many levels, but they know how to follow up week to week.


----------



## bdon

Prized Fighter said:


> It is the pacing of the show that feels different to me. AEW's charm comes with the fact they don't let you breath. There is a variety of styles, but each segments hits one after the other. Since Full Gear, it feels like that pacing has slowed. The Punk/MJF segments are definitely the biggest reason since they are doing long in ring promos and pre/post match promos as well.
> 
> I also losing Mox, Omega, Miro and Jericho takes away some top veteran talent.


I am glad to know that others have noticed it as well.

Y’all can say it: tell ‘em, bdon!


----------



## yeahright2

GNKenny said:


> Playing devil's advocate here..... people said the same thing about TNA fans and we saw what eventually happened there.


What really killed TNA was the TNA/GFW/Impact failure where almost all the regular talent left, leaving only unknown people to be on the show.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

I'd say Dynamite has generally been really good-great the past month or so... nothing different than what it was pre-Full Gear in terms of quality. Maybe a bit better too. Would have to think about each episode before and after to determine (before within the same number of weeks I'm talking). The Elite taking a back seat is certainly far better than when they were more prominent, holding most of the gold. That said, the last several weeks they've been missing great talent like Moxley, Miro, even Jericho who is hit or miss... he does add some star power to it. Plus what they're doing with Cody... it better actually lead to a heel turn. It seems like he's trying to fight that off, but if that's not where they're ultimately going then that's disappointing. They do have Punk/MJF going on though right now which has been excellent, and Page/Bryan is probably the best shorter-term World Title feud in a long time. Probably since Mox/Kingston.

But TBH it all depends. Dynamite's always been a bit all over the pace with it's quality - whether a heavier wrestling focus or a heavier promo focus. They'll have a great episode, then drop the ball the following episode. They'll have a string of bad episodes, and then knock it out of the park for a few episodes after. Sometimes a card looks like complete filler, but other times they have these specials that feel like PPV cards on free TV. Overall it's a far better product than anything WWE puts out with Raw and Smackdown, but there are some weeks where it's WWE-level trash, or even worse.

Rampage though has been absolute garbage since Full Gear. It actually feels like I never need to watch it. I looked at this week's card and it was an instant "pass" for me, as has been for a good while now. It's kind of odd because I didn't like Punk and Bryan wrestling on Rampage as much as they were... but without them to lift it up the show is even worse than some of the weaker WWE episodes, and that's saying something. It either needs the star power, or it needs to feel different than just a third hour of Dynamite. I said it awhile back, but if numbers continue declining for it (which they did, although have settled around 500k normally), they should experiment with it a bit more. That is if Tony Khan actually wants it to feel like a legitimate second AEW show to rival Dynamite. If he's fine with it being a D-tier show, then he should keep doing what he's doing.


----------



## NathanMayberry

So some dude on reddit said he was from the future.. I obviously didn't believe him at first, but then he said that AEW fans will be using "the ratings would be higher if it was on TNT" as an excuse for Dynamite's ratings in 2022 and they will also try to gaslight us by saying "no one expected higher ratings on TBS."

I think he's legit


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

NathanMayberry said:


> So some dude on reddit said he was from the future.. I obviously didn't believe him at first, but then he said that AEW fans will be using "the ratings would be higher if it was on TNT" as an excuse for Dynamite's ratings in 2022 and they will also try to gaslight us by saying "no one expected higher ratings on TBS."
> 
> I think he's legit


did he happen to mention if you would still be around here posting?


----------



## Hotdiggity11

Soul Rex said:


> The worst thing about this show is lack of continuity, there is not single one thing in the show that I want to watch every week, it's a mess, too many wrestlers, too much stuff we don't give a shit about.
> 
> WWE is trash at many levels, but they know how to follow up week to week.



Only a few select [IE: The chosen ones] people get storyline continuity. Others get the ol' stop and go. Like the 2 year odyssey of them teasing Wardlow breaking up for MJF only for it to completely go away until they need to remind us it will eventually happen by teasing us some more. 

At least Miro is enjoying the holidays after also disappearing.


----------



## shandcraig

yeahright2 said:


> What really killed TNA was the TNA/GFW/Impact failure where almost all the regular talent left, leaving only unknown people to be on the show.


it wasnt gfw but the new anthem ownership. In fact the few weeks gfw was in the creative improved. The owners didnt have a fucking clue about wrestling and it took like 3 years to get good and now they have dropped the ball entirely again.


----------



## shandcraig

I think the ratings can easily be higher on tbs but at this point that wont happen.They are on a decline right now and switching networks will probably make it worse because from a tv stand point people are losing interest. I wanna know how long its going to take Tony to bring someone in. The guy thinks hes Elon musk.


----------



## yeahright2

shandcraig said:


> it wasnt gfw but the new anthem ownership. In fact the few weeks gfw was in the creative improved. The owners didnt have a fucking clue about wrestling and it took like 3 years to get good and now they have dropped the ball entirely again.


The whole situation with namechanges and stuff. GFW was a part of that failure. If I´m used to watching TNA, I don´t want to suddenly watch a whole different company (GFW) with a new roster. Impact at least had some connection to TNA, since it was called TNA Impact.


----------



## 3venflow

They sold 6,500 tickets for Revolution on the first day. More have moved since then and there are very few tickets left in the current config, but they will push it up to around 8,000. Ideally they would've run the Amway for this with its 15,000 seats but apparently it is booked up.

This week's Dynamite is at 5,120 paid.


----------



## 3venflow

AEW Rampage

Viewership: 571,000
18-49: 0.23 (306,000)

Highest rating in both categories since November 6.

And it ranked well on cable in 7th.


----------



## DammitChrist

Hey, I guess those multi-tags that kept getting scoffed at this past week ended up doing well enough after all


----------



## RapShepard

Cole bringing up ratings a bit


----------



## Dr. Middy

The ratings increasing off that show make no sense haha.

But it's still good news they are close to 600K. Hopefully they continue to rebound.


----------



## yeahright2

Rampage ratings are in.
(Insert shameless plug for the ratings game)
AEW Ratings prediction game

@thorn123 took that win, congrats to him 

I´m surprised about that rating.. Guess there was nothing better on elsewhere in the US.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> AEW Rampage
> 
> Viewership: 571,000
> 18-49: 0.23 (306,000)
> 
> Highest rating in both categories since November 6.
> 
> And it ranked well on cable in 7th.
> 
> View attachment 113530


@The Legit DMD - did the Bucks tank the ratings?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> @The Legit DMD - did the Bucks tank the ratings?


*I didn't even know they were there. I saw like 20 names on the card and said fuck this. Glad you enjoyed it though. *


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *I didn't even know they were there. I saw like 20 names on the card and said fuck this. Glad you enjoyed it though. *


lol, I actually skipped through this Rampage - wasn't in the mood / I'm on a minecraft kick


edit> look at my nice wheat field


----------



## Erik.

I saw both wrestling shows on Friday were up.

Glad to see wrestling doing relatively well in a Friday night.


----------



## Prosper

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1473096441388224516


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1473116268555210754

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bdon

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1473116268555210754
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


“According to sources, WWE believes Tony Khan bought 570-some thousand homes and tv’s…”


----------



## thorn123

IMO that was one of the weaker rampages, so it just shows the ratings and quality don’t have a strong positive correlation. Weak at best.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1473386789209620490

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

They'll probably be able to get capacity up to 8,000 for this but demand has been really good again. Recent PPV quality basically sells this show months before anything is announced.

If Covid doesn't mess everything up, I really think TK needs to be looking at a 20,000+ seater for an event like Grand Slam 2022. With matches like Omega vs. Okada, Punk vs. Danielson they could make big bank.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1473713730974326792


----------



## DUSTY 74




----------



## Prosper

^Yeah shit is starting to get crazy again. I hope it doesn't get so bad that they have to go back to Dailys Place or take away live crowds for a 2nd time.


----------



## omaroo

Is it really bad again in the US?

If goes out of control could see the touring stopping again which will suck big time.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Prosper said:


> ^Yeah shit is starting to get crazy again. I hope it doesn't get so bad that they have to go back to Dailys Place or take away live crowds for a 2nd time.


*The NBA is a disaster right now with 3rd stringers starting due to entire lineups having covid.*


----------



## Prosper

The Legit DMD said:


> *The NBA is a disaster right now with 3rd stringers starting due to entire lineups having covid.*


NFL is getting pretty bad too, unfortunate that we are still so deep in this Covid shit.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Still think they should be writing and producing the show to caterer to regular TV watchers to try and create new fans, the wrestling hardcore fanbase will always be there so you don't need to cater to them, you can throw them a bone here and there, but they shouldn't be your focus, you should be trying to capture a regular TV viewer's eye in the hopes of making them a fan, AEW as it is right now? I don't think would appeal to a regular TV viewer, but neither does WWE either.


----------



## bdon

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Still think they should be writing and producing the show to caterer to regular TV watchers to try and create new fans, the wrestling hardcore fanbase will always be there so you don't need to cater to them, you can throw them a bone here and there, but they shouldn't be your focus, you should be trying to capture a regular TV viewer's eye in the hopes of making them a fan, AEW as it is right now? I don't think would appeal to a regular TV viewer, but neither does WWE either.


It appeals to far less, IMO, as it is trying to produce a WWE-like show, but it can’t outdo WWE at WWE-like segments.


----------



## Erik.

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Still think they should be writing and producing the show to caterer to regular TV watchers to try and create new fans, the wrestling hardcore fanbase will always be there so you don't need to cater to them, you can throw them a bone here and there, but they shouldn't be your focus, you should be trying to capture a regular TV viewer's eye in the hopes of making them a fan, AEW as it is right now? I don't think would appeal to a regular TV viewer, but neither does WWE either.


You think it's wrong to cater towards their OWN fanbase?

What if catering towards regular TV watchers drives away their fanbase and in the long term doesn't bring in regular TV watchers?

Well, then you've got Impact Wrestling.

What they need to do is keep growing like they are. Make sure their PPV buy rates stay on the increase, march sales and ticket sales continue to rise whilst increasing their fanbase internationally.

It's a marathon not a sprint. What's the fascination with wanting AEW to grow at a rapid pace on the level of WWE? 

It's like buying cryptocurrency or shares and complaining within a few months that you're not a millionaire. 

Stop concerning yourself with what strangers are watching.


----------



## NathanMayberry

There's nothing wrong with not wanting your favorites to be involved in dumb indy shit and wanting them to be portrayed in a manner that appeals to regular non-autistic adults. 


Like what the fuck even is this? 











And then AEW fans are left bewildered why the only AEW wrestlers to experience a big increase in fan support this year were women who have their tits and asses out..


----------



## Erik.

CM Punk isn't allowed to have fun at Christmas because Nathan Mayberry wants his fake fighting to be SERIOUS, folks.

All the whilst us AEW fans have had our Christmas ruined because apparently social media follows have left us all.... bewildered.

God damn AEW.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Still think they should be writing and producing the show to caterer to regular TV watchers to try and create new fans, the wrestling hardcore fanbase will always be there so you don't need to cater to them, you can throw them a bone here and there, but they shouldn't be your focus, you should be trying to capture a regular TV viewer's eye in the hopes of making them a fan, AEW as it is right now? I don't think would appeal to a regular TV viewer, but neither does WWE either.







no thanks, we have enough hipsters watching WWE ironically / no need to carry that over to AEW


----------



## 3venflow

That's modern star CM Punk paying tribute to Sting as old school icon Sting paid tribute to CM Punk. Sounds like something that might appeal to those barely existent 'casuals' to me. BTW, face paint and masks have historically been pretty good at appealing to younger audiences.

Anyway, last night's show ended up at 5,593 fans, which is pretty good.


----------



## zkorejo

Last night was 6000 people? Crowd fuckin sucked then. I came in to check if it was 2000-3000.


----------



## DammitChrist

I'm glad that Kyle O'Reilly got a good crowd reaction last night at least


----------



## Hotdiggity11

The Legit DMD said:


> *The NBA is a disaster right now with 3rd stringers starting due to entire lineups having covid.*


Joe Johnson is back in the NBA. He was drafted in 2001. 😂


----------



## KingofKings1524

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Joe Johnson is back in the NBA. He was drafted in 2001. 😂


Just waiting on Dirk, VC, and a few others to come out of retirement.


----------



## Hotdiggity11

KingofKings1524 said:


> Just waiting on Dirk, VC, and a few others to come out of retirement.


Watched Lance Stephenson last night after he got signed. First shot was an airball 3. Proceeded to turn the ball over soon after. 🤣


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Joe Johnson is back in the NBA. He was drafted in 2001. 😂


*Soon MJ will play for the Hornets and Shaq will play for the Kings 🤣*


----------



## Frost99

The Legit DMD said:


> *Soon MJ will play for the Hornets and Shaq will play for the Kings 🤣*


Nah, I mean remember the Rock & Shaq are boys after that one time in Sacramento I don't think he'll be playing for the Queens I mean Kings.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Frost99 said:


> Nah, I mean remember the Rock & Shaq are boys after that one time in Sacramento I don't think he'll be playing for the Queens I mean Kings.


*Shaq is part owner of the Kings.*


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1474120568681160709

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ProjectGargano

That was good...above 1M one more time.


----------



## RoganJosh

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1474120568681160709
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Damn. It's a Christmas miracle. Let's see the pessimists explain this one.


----------



## 3venflow

Shocked at the rise, the Xmas episodes saw major drops in the past two years. Might have been Tony hyping surprises, the main event, or momentum from last week's world title match.

They came very close to RAW in the key demo (15,000 difference).


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

1M again, nice! The Punk and Sting tag probably helped, but I think these specials like “Holiday Bash” do draw more attention. Maybe intrigue to see the fallout from Page and Bryan last week as well.


----------



## Kishido

Not bad


----------



## DammitChrist

Holy smokes!!

My eyes actually popped when I saw that they went over 1 million viewers 😂

I was honestly expecting somewhere around 900+ K viewers.

Anyway, this is light-hearted; but the likes of Orange Cassidy, Kyle O’Reilly, and the Young Bucks confirmed to do well 

Seriously, kudos for breaking past 1 million viewers in spite of the Pacific time zone conflict


----------



## 3venflow

It finished second on cable.


----------



## Erik.

I believe that's the first time they've got over a million without the West Coast in prime time. Which is quite impressive. 

Number bodes well for them when they move to TBS - especially considering that it's looking like Bryan/Page draws and that title match is on the TBS opener.


----------



## RainmakerV2

That's a good number. Punk and Sting together was probably a nice little draw. People had been wanting that.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1474123929379823624

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## InexorableJourney

No Eddie Kingston at all and they crack a million mmm, whodathunk it.


----------



## DammitChrist

Yep, I expect the trio of Sting, CM Punk, and Darby Allin to receive the highest quarterly ratings (along with MJF plus FTR too).

They’ve subtly teased that trio teaming up since late August too.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Back over a million is nice ..maybe with the tbs move it will stay above it


----------



## Mr316

This is the result of having a great main event closing the show.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1474120568681160709
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


people will look at the 1m

but the real story is the Demo shooting up again to a nice 0.37

beating Raw, didn't it? (edit> nope, off by 0.01)


----------



## holy

I tuned in last night largely to see Punk and Sting on the same team.


----------



## Not Lying

Nice number. They need to get some momentum before the move to TBS but so far it's looking good. That main event was great, we also got Cody/Sammy Rampage to look forward to, then next week JR Back, Jade/Rosa and Undisputed debut vs Best Friends).
Good stuff.


----------



## Erik.

December 2020, Avg Viewership : *893,200*

December 2021, Avg Viewership : *925,250*

Growth.


----------



## ElTerrible

Orange Cassidy is a draw.


----------



## Aedubya

Didn't expect them to get over a mill for a long long time , great to see

Demo is unreal


----------



## 3venflow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1474126110111645712


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> December 2020, Avg Viewership : *893,200*
> 
> December 2022, Avg Viewership : *925,250*
> 
> Growth.


nice growth we have going on

was just 800k the other day - 200k new fans


----------



## elo

Mr316 said:


> This is the result of having a great main event closing the show.


It's a result of actually putting the main event in the main event slot and yes Punk, Darby and Sting cover pretty much every demo so massive drawing power there - create trios titles for them ASAP.

They would have done a million last week too if Tony put Hangman v Danielson on last.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Botchy SinCara said:


> Back over a million is nice ..maybe with the tbs move it will stay above it


It definitely will. West Coast goes back to prime time.


----------



## ShadowCounter

elo said:


> It's a result of actually putting the main event in the main event slot and yes Punk, Darby and Sting cover pretty much every demo so massive drawing power there - create trios titles for them ASAP.
> 
> They would have done a million last week too if Tony put Hangman v Danielson on last.


And if another segment goes long they're fucked as they have a hard out at the top of the hour for the NHL. TK didn't really have a choice here. 1 mistake and we don't see the end of the match.


----------



## Prosper

Demos up. Overalls up. And this is still with the West Coast issue. All good signs. The show last night was pretty good, I'm guessing the main event had the highest spike, but secretly I'm hoping Malakai Black beat them out with over 1.1 million for his part of the show.


----------



## elo

ShadowCounter said:


> And if another segment goes long they're fucked as they have a hard out at the top of the hour for the NHL. TK didn't really have a choice here. 1 mistake and we don't see the end of the match.


Nah, you write the show as if the 60 minute match will start 10 mins before the top of the second hour to leave yourself a window, fill the space when you get there if required, quite easy for ~50 mins of live television. Tony likes starting the show off with a long match and it can lose me (who has watched every episode of Dynamite) so imagine what it does to casuals, last night it was OK because of the O'Reilly run-in but without that the show would have felt like it was dragging 20 mins in.


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## MEMS

Undisputed attraction


----------



## Geeee

I hope this means more shows formatted like the one on Wednesday because I found every segment had something entertaining. Even the Nyla/Soho match, which was my least favorite part, had Soho hilariously getting trapped in her jacket


----------



## yeahright2

Ratings are in
(Obligatory shameless plug for the ratings game)
AEW Ratings prediction game
@thorn123 has proven to be pretty good at this.

Above 1 Million.. Nobody had guessed that. Without the quarters, we can´t know for sure why that is, but I´m guessing the Main event helped. And no goofy Bucks match probably helped as well


----------



## Geeee

Mr316 said:


> This is the result of having a great main event closing the show.


I actually agree with this. Last week, I was exhausted after Danielson vs Hangman and I might have turned it off if I were a casual


----------



## ShadowCounter

So at what time do we expect The Legit DMD to come in and admit the 60 minute Hanger/Bryan match wasn't the ratings killer he claimed it would be? Any second now I'm sure.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11

Good to see them back over 1 million again, although that could just be because there wasn't any Young Bucks match 😉

Adam Cole's forehead finally gets a rest after 2 months of non-stop growing. I thought he'd never catch a break.


----------



## Derek30

Good for them. Now watch them surpass 1.1 million when they let Danielson and Hangman go a full 2 hours in a couple of weeks.


----------



## Soul Rex

That little bump was due to Hook.. How? Because yes.


----------



## Whoanma

Or maybe…


----------



## Tell it like it is

All that talk about pounding ass might have work!


----------



## 3venflow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1474175835124895757


----------



## THANOS

3venflow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1474175835124895757


OC is a crazy draw, that much has been true for awhile now.


----------



## Whoanma




----------



## LifeInCattleClass

OC carrying the show and the underwhelming nxt reject Cole to a decent segment and rating / love to see it

AEW where the interesting boys play

this should teach Cole how to get some character


----------



## ElTerrible

Time to push OC up the card again. Lambert´s yelling act vs. OC´s lackadaisical attitude would be make for a good mix. Intergender tag match OC/Statlander vs. Page/KVZ


----------



## Sad Panda

OC is a legit draw for men, women and kids. It’s why he’s going no where.


----------



## Erik.

It's not a surprise that Cassidy done well, most of the promotions most viewed YouTube videos are Orange Cassidy. 

I am surprised the 6 man tag wasn't the high point though.


----------



## DaSlacker

For me, the magic of Orange Cassidy died when it became apparent how basic he was in the ring and Tony overexposed him in long matches. 

Nevertheless, he's still over with the 18-49 AEW audience.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> OC carrying the show and the underwhelming nxt reject Cole to a decent segment and rating / love to see it
> 
> AEW where the interesting boys play
> 
> this should teach Cole how to get some character


You're joking, but seriously hopefully Cole could learn something from him


----------



## Chan Hung

It was a very good show overall. Plus no Dork Order so a win for everyone.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> You're joking, but seriously hopefully Cole does learn something from him


i was only a quarter joking


----------



## Ultimo Duggan

DaSlacker said:


> For me, the magic of Orange Cassidy died when it became apparent how basic he was in the ring and Tony overexposed him in long matches.
> 
> Nevertheless, he's still over with the 18-49 AEW audience.


I’m not sure what “basic” means in this context. 

He does rely on the same “unorthodox” offence in every match. He was a bit different as Fire Ant in Chikara. Actually, OC was very different as Fire Ant. The Colony gimmick used almost no Ant-related offence, IIRC. The Colony also had Drew Gulak as Soldier Ant and Tracy Williams was Worker Ant to round out the true members of the group. 

At King of Trios 2011 they did carry a prized bag of sugar with them to the ring. It was never clearly stipulated that they defend the sugar against their tournament opponents. A super duper rarity in Chikara’s mostly airtight storytelling if ever there was one.

While I do dig his act I also wonder if he should have fewer singles matches in 2022. They just need to put OC on the MJF schedule of a scant number of singles and EVERY Best Friends’ tag/trios/atomicos/Ummm..,Cinqos(?) match? Those 5 on 5 tags don’t have a fancy lucha name, unfortunately.


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1474215619138670595

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ameer Patel

I hope TK sees third bump and realises that shorter/less matches and more promos = better ratings, the show was much better formatted because it had less wrestling and more promos than the previous shows we've had.

Will be interesting to see if they can sustain this rating and then increase it on TBS when the West Coast will be able to watch at 8pm on delay


----------



## 3venflow

The four top performing quarters in both P2+ and P18-49 were the two main matches (both 15+ minutes).


----------



## Erik.

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1474215619138670595
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Stable as fuck.

The Undisputed DRAW.


----------



## BestInTheWorld22

DaSlacker said:


> For me, the magic of Orange Cassidy died when it became apparent how basic he was in the ring and Tony overexposed him in long matches.
> 
> Nevertheless, he's still over with the 18-49 AEW audience.


OC is a star and deserves the spotlight


----------



## thorn123

Ok I need to shut up and stop complaining about OC. He obviously brings in numbers.
At 62, Sting was the MVP


----------



## KingofKings1524

ShadowCounter said:


> So at what time do we expect The Legit DMD to come in and admit the 60 minute Hanger/Bryan match wasn't the ratings killer he claimed it would be? Any second now I'm sure.


Just know that if the female equivalent of the Rock was in AEW those numbers would have been at least a half million higher. Sasha Banks is the biggest draw since Stone Cold.


----------



## Prosper

They stayed at over a million for the whole show, good shit.


----------



## Big Booty Bex

Prosper said:


> They stayed at over a million for the whole show, good shit.


Never doubt the ratings draw Big Booty Bex!


----------



## ShadowCounter

thorn123 said:


> Ok I need to shut up and stop complaining about OC. He obviously brings in numbers.
> At 62, Sting was the MVP


----------



## Randy Lahey

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1474215619138670595
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Women did lowest Q yet again. Which is really terrible given it was the top of hour 2. Please just leave them off the show permanently. 18-49 do not want to watch women wrestle


----------



## DaSlacker

Ultimo Duggan said:


> I’m not sure what “basic” means in this context.
> 
> He does rely on the same “unorthodox” offence in every match. He was a bit different as Fire Ant in Chikara. Actually, OC was very different as Fire Ant. The Colony gimmick used almost no Ant-related offence, IIRC. The Colony also had Drew Gulak as Soldier Ant and Tracy Williams was Worker Ant to round out the true members of the group.
> 
> At King of Trios 2011 they did carry a prized bag of sugar with them to the ring. It was never clearly stipulated that they defend the sugar against their tournament opponents. A super duper rarity in Chikara’s mostly airtight storytelling if ever there was one.
> 
> While I do dig his act I also wonder if he should have fewer singles matches in 2022. They just need to put OC on the MJF schedule of a scant number of singles and EVERY Best Friends’ tag/trios/atomicos/Ummm..,Cinqos(?) match? Those 5 on 5 tags don’t have a fancy lucha name, unfortunately.


Yeah, I meant it more in the way you describe (i.e same unorthodox offence in every match). He works a somewhat 'WWE Style' match imo.

Interesting info about Chikkara because I don't think I've ever seen it. Not sure why but would really like to see this Ant Colony faction reunite in AEW one day. Agree that working an MJF type schedule would help.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

OC being successful makes me wonder how Danhausen would do. Legit one of the few wrestlers I actually find funny and endearing.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ameer Patel said:


> I hope TK sees third bump and realises that shorter/less matches and more promos = better ratings, the show was much better formatted because it had less wrestling and more promos than the previous shows we've had.
> 
> Will be interesting to see if they can sustain this rating and then increase it on TBS when the West Coast will be able to watch at 8pm on delay


what ‘third bump’ ?

most of the bumps is centred around the oc / cole / KOR angle (q2)

and the long main event match (q7 and q8)

there is no bump that says ‘shorter matches and promos work better)


----------



## yeahright2

Randy Lahey said:


> Women did lowest Q yet again. Which is really terrible given it was the top of hour 2. Please just leave them off the show permanently. 18-49 do not want to watch women wrestle


Women does that in wrestling. They were never meant to be anything but a pissbreak. The only thing that would make AEW´s women different from others would be to bring back bra and panties matches, pillow fights etc.


----------



## Gn1212

Not sure OC is the draw here. Him and Adam opened the show and if the ratings dropped after that then surely people saw the silliness of that match and tuned out? 😂


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*That tag match main event was a huge success. At least we can see that it's possible for them to hit a million again. *



yeahright2 said:


> Women does that in wrestling. They were never meant to be anything but a pissbreak. The only thing that would make AEW´s women different from others would be to bring back bra and panties matches, pillow fights etc.


*This is incredibly wrong. Sasha Banks is the biggest draw in wrestling, and Shida and Britt have repeatedly had the highest ratings on Dynamite.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *That tag match main event was a huge success. At least we can see that it's possible for them to hit a million again.
> 
> 
> This is incredibly wrong. Sasha Banks is the biggest draw in wrestling, and Shida and Britt have repeatedly had the highest ratings on Dynamite.*


true, Shida, Britt, Rosa has all been proven draws

funnily enough, its ‘workrate’ women that draw


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> true, Shida, Britt, Rosa has all been proven draws
> 
> funnily enough, its ‘workrate’ women that draw


*I think Britt is a very average worker that can have good to great matches with great workers. Her promo ability is what draws the viewers in.*


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

Women or not, let’s be real here, no one wanted to watch Nyla Rose vs Ruby Soho…come on now 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> Women or not, let’s be real here, no one wanted to watch Nyla Rose vs Ruby Soho…come on now
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*Seriously. It's so annoying when people point to a low rated segment from the least interesting women and say "See! No one cares about women's wrestling!" in spite of countless examples of fans tuning in for premier women in hot angles.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Legit DMD said:


> *I think Britt is a very average worker that can have good to great matches with great workers. Her promo ability is what draws the viewers in.*


Its a combo for sure - people are invested in her promos

but she is having good matches when paired with the right people too

in other words… no amount of good promos can get me to watch Britt / Nyla

and I didn’t watch Britt / Soho - even though their promos were good

but Britt / Shida, Britt / Rosa and eventually Britt / Bex is all good or gonna be good because of a combo


----------



## Erik.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> true, Shida, Britt, Rosa has all been proven draws
> 
> funnily enough, its ‘workrate’ women that draw


Isn't Riho the biggest draw out of all of them?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Its a combo for sure - people are invested in her promos
> 
> but she is having good matches when paired with the right people too
> 
> in other words… no amount of good promos can get me to watch Britt / Nyla
> 
> and I didn’t watch Britt / Soho - even though their promos were good
> 
> but Britt / Shida, Britt / Rosa and eventually Britt / Bex is all good or gonna be good because of a combo


*Yeah, I'm looking forward to Britt vs Jamie too. The build AND the match should be great.*


----------



## ProjectGargano

The Legit DMD said:


> *That tag match main event was a huge success. At least we can see that it's possible for them to hit a million again.
> 
> 
> This is incredibly wrong. Sasha Banks is the biggest draw in wrestling, and Shida and Britt have repeatedly had the highest ratings on Dynamite.*


The only one that fails to be a draw is Mandy Rose.


----------



## 3venflow

Rampage will finally be airing nationally on ITV in the UK for those who don't have FITE. Long delay though.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1474394686622244878


----------



## Erik.

3venflow said:


> Rampage will finally be airing nationally on ITV in the UK for those who don't have FITE. Long delay though.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1474394686622244878


It's cool that ITV have got the right.

But I can't see this doing much.

Most people I know that watch AEW are watching it via FITE anyway.


----------



## Erik.

Thought this was particularly interesting and didn't really know where to post it - whether here or over in the Raw ratings thread, but I'll post it here anyway BECAUSE of how new AEW is and their need to be able to suck new fans in.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1474231858640482306
Makes me feel old if anything.


----------



## AuthorOfPosts

GNKenny said:


> OC being successful makes me wonder how Danhausen would do. Legit one of the few wrestlers I actually find funny and endearing.


I thought Tony wants AEW to be the serious wrestling show... unfortunately if you're obsessed with ratings, you can't be ROH.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

AuthorOfPosts said:


> I thought Tony wants AEW to be the serious wrestling show... unfortunately if you're obsessed with ratings, you can't be ROH.


Since when has AEW ever been serious?


----------



## BestInTheWorld22

Erik. said:


> Thought this was particularly interesting and didn't really know where to post it - whether here or over in the Raw ratings thread, but I'll post it here anyway BECAUSE of how new AEW is and their need to be able to suck new fans in.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1474231858640482306
> Makes me feel old if anything.


Her and Sapp both are absolutely annoying


----------



## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1474427553775554562

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## omaroo

Is it confirmed come first dynamite of 2022 on TBS the West Coast time slot will be in its original slot and no longer be live in the west coast?


----------



## DaSlacker

Erik. said:


> Thought this was particularly interesting and didn't really know where to post it - whether here or over in the Raw ratings thread, but I'll post it here anyway BECAUSE of how new AEW is and their need to be able to suck new fans in.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1474231858640482306
> Makes me feel old if anything.


It's just the way things are. A 15 year old Minnesotan in the late 90's, who didn't pay any real attention to wrestling, would have known of Hulk Hogan. But they probably didn't associate their own governor with wrestling. Highly possible they had no idea who Andre the Giant was.


----------



## ShadowCounter

omaroo said:


> Is it confirmed come first dynamite of 2022 on TBS the West Coast time slot will be in its original slot and no longer be live in the west coast?


Yes. From the first show on TBS, the west coast goes back to normal.


----------



## omaroo

ShadowCounter said:


> Yes. From the first show on TBS, the west coast goes back to normal.


Its good that the west coast is back to the normal time slot.

1.1-1.2 million should be what they should be getting every week,


----------



## Randy Lahey

LifeInCattleClass said:


> true, Shida, Britt, Rosa has all been proven draws
> 
> funnily enough, its ‘workrate’ women that draw


How can you even argue that? The women segments are consistently the lowest rated parts of every show and it doesn’t matter what female talent you put in there.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Randy Lahey said:


> How can you even argue that? The women segments are consistently the lowest rated parts of every show and it doesn’t matter what female talent you put in there.


nope, definitely not always - there were quite a few instances where all of these women spiked the ratings that i can recall

Riho too


----------



## Randy Lahey

Put it this way, if you look at quarter hours every week, 95% of the time the women segment loses viewers from the prior segment. Doesn’t matter if it’s Britt even.

You can’t pick one segment, on one night, and argue “see they are a draw”. You gotta look at these things over a long period, and see whether female wrestling loses viewers. Surely Tony can see it.

Honestky if Tony still wants to push women’s wrestling at all I hope he puts them all on one show so that I never have to watch. It kills the buzz of Dynamite. Few care about Japanese women in the US, even the eye candy not many care about, and the only women’s feud that ever got any buzz was Britt/Rosa and that’s been dead for 8 months.

So if the goal is to maximize viewers, then put on Dynamite acts that consistently don’t lose viewers from the prior segment. It’s not hard to figure out.

Britt can still have a place on the show as a live interviewer since she’s one of the best mic workers they have. But no other women have shown they deserve any time over the vast amount of more talented male talent they have


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Randy Lahey said:


> Put it this way, if you look at quarter hours every week, 95% of the time the women segment loses viewers from the prior segment. Doesn’t matter if it’s Britt even.
> 
> You can’t pick one segment, on one night, and argue “see they are a draw”. You gotta look at these things over a long period, and see whether female wrestling loses viewers. Surely Tony can see it.
> 
> Honestky if Tony still wants to push women’s wrestling at all I hope he puts them all on one show so that I never have to watch. It kills the buzz of Dynamite. Few care about Japanese women in the US, even the eye candy not many care about, and the only women’s feud that ever got any buzz was Britt/Rosa and that’s been dead for 8 months.
> 
> So if the goal is to maximize viewers, then put on Dynamite acts that consistently don’t lose viewers from the prior segment. It’s not hard to figure out.
> 
> Britt can still have a place on the show as a live interviewer since she’s one of the best mic workers they have. But no other women have shown they deserve any time over the vast amount of more talented male talent they have


i would say there is a set combo of women that consistently draw - if they face each other

problem is you cannot overplay that - the division as a whole is as a result a nett loss


----------



## RainmakerV2

Randy Lahey said:


> Women did lowest Q yet again. Which is really terrible given it was the top of hour 2. Please just leave them off the show permanently. 18-49 do not want to watch women wrestle



Not true at all. They will watch attractive women who can work. Let's be honest here, Nyla is a fat behemoth (don't get your panties in a wad) who can't work and Ruby only really appeals to a tiny demographic.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Even eye candy babes usually lose viewers and AEW has plenty of those with Penelope,Bunny, Conti, Anna and it still doesn’t help.

There’s just not a demand, in comparison to men’s wrestling, for women’s wrestling, It’s the same reason the NBA draws way more than WNBA.

Trying to force product down your audience throat that they don’t want (or a very small minority want) will end up hurting the overall


----------



## CM Buck

RainmakerV2 said:


> Not true at all. They will watch attractive women who can work. Let's be honest here, Nyla is a fat behemoth (don't get your panties in a wad) who can't work and Ruby only really appeals to a tiny demographic.


Edited your post cause I'd rather fat people get upset.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Firefromthegods said:


> Edited your post cause I'd rather fat people get upset.



Eh that's fair


----------



## 3venflow

Ratings delays:


*Thursday 12/23 nationals* available Monday 12/27 afternoon
*Friday 12/24 nationals *available Tuesday 12/28 morning
*Saturday 12/25 nationals* available Wednesday 12/29 morning
*Sunday 12/26 nationals *available Wednesday 12/29 morning
*Monday 12/27 nationals* available Wednesday 12/29 afternoon
*Tuesday 12/28 nationals* available Thursday 12/30 morning
*Wednesday 12/29 nationals* available Monday 1/3 morning
*Thursday 12/30 nationals *available Monday 1/3 afternoon
*Friday 12/31 nationals* available Tuesday 1/4 morning
*Saturday 1/1 nationals* available Wednesday 1/5 morning
*Sunday 1/2 nationals *available Wednesday 1/5 morning
*Monday 1/3 nationals* available Wednesday 1/5 afternoon
*Tuesday 1/4 nationals* available Thursday 1/6 morning
*Wednesday 1/5 nationals* available Friday 1/7 morning
*Thursday 1/6 nationals* available Monday 1/10 morning


----------



## 3venflow

AEW's ticket sales are virtually neck and neck with WWE this year in terms of average. However, WWE run a lot more house shows and split RAW and Smackdown while one in about every six or seven Rampages are live. I wonder if Tony Khan will ever look to run more shows or is happy with the current schedule (which is one of the appeals to talent, less time on the road). Considering the size of the roster now, they could easily send groups of talent off to cities, but its whether they have confidence in lesser used markets.


----------



## Erik.

3venflow said:


> AEW's ticket sales are virtually neck and neck with WWE this year in terms of average. However, WWE run a lot more house shows and split RAW and Smackdown while one in about every six or seven Rampages are live. I wonder if Tony Khan will ever look to run more shows or is happy with the current schedule (which is one of the appeals to talent, less time on the road). Considering the size of the roster now, they could easily send groups of talent off to cities, but its whether they have confidence in lesser used markets.
> 
> View attachment 113842


I think AEW are just happy with allowing their talent to work independent shows etc.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Yeah, house-shows should be a non-starter

do your bit to keep indies strong / while keeping you main show a hot ticket


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

For those that don’t normally watch, its worth checking the last 5 min for KOR / Bucks / Cole


----------



## AuthorOfPosts

3venflow said:


> AEW's ticket sales are virtually neck and neck with WWE this year in terms of average. However, WWE run a lot more house shows and split RAW and Smackdown while one in about every six or seven Rampages are live. I wonder if Tony Khan will ever look to run more shows or is happy with the current schedule (which is one of the appeals to talent, less time on the road). Considering the size of the roster now, they could easily send groups of talent off to cities, but its whether they have confidence in lesser used markets.
> 
> View attachment 113842


Why don't these things ever include average price of tickets?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

AuthorOfPosts said:


> Why don't these things ever include average price of tickets?


i dunno - but its similar these days (as per wrestletix)

in fact, the fed are running a lot lower bands and 4 for 1 specials

then again, they overall sell 3x as much, so i guess they’re still smiling to the bank


----------



## Erik.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> For those that don’t normally watch, its worth checking the last 5 min for KOR / Bucks / Cole


So they acknowledged it then. As expected.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> So they acknowledged it then. As expected.


people don't trust the Bucks enough man - sad to see

90% of the good stuff on AEW I am almost sure comes from them


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*I agree with Sting here. The tag match as a whole drew because it was a marquee matchup. Sting and Darby versus 2.0 flopped, as did CM Punk vs random jobbers, but this succeeded because it's a match that the majority wanted to see. It's all I've been asking for.*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1475613751562805249


----------



## Curryfor3

AuthorOfPosts said:


> Why don't these things ever include average price of tickets?


And that matters because....?


----------



## yeahright2

I´m gonna have to get attention to the ratings game.. 
AEW Ratings prediction game

read my post, the game is coming to a halt after the next Dynamite, so you still have one shot at it  Thank you everyone who played, we had a great run.


----------



## zkorejo

Sting is classy. As for women not drawing.. Bunny beat Roman in the demo head to head, for crying out loud.


----------



## Irish Jet

LOL at the neckbeards here blaming the women because they’re women when they’ve been presented horribly by the company from the beginning. This place is actually infested with incels.


----------



## DaSlacker

I know it's the way of the world now. But if 25 years ago somebody told me that Sting and "Nature Boy" Ric Flair would be embroiled in a dispute on AOL over who managed to attract 1 million viewers to a wrestling show. A wrestling show ran by a geeky regular at the ECW tapings, Dusty's other kid, Wild Pegasus 2 and smaller version of Rock n Roll Express..
💊 🤪


----------



## thorn123

The Legit DMD said:


> *I agree with Sting here. The tag match as a whole drew because it was a marquee matchup. Sting and Darby versus 2.0 flopped, as did CM Punk vs random jobbers, but this succeeded because it's a match that the majority wanted to see. It's all I've been asking for.*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1475613751562805249


The humility of this man.
That is a big reason why he is my GOAT


----------



## thorn123

I don’t care about the ratings, I enjoy AEWs women’s division and want to keep watching.
I mean even the most recent offering of the legit vs the alien was good to watch.


----------



## Hitman1987

DaSlacker said:


> I know it's the way of the world now. But if 25 years ago somebody told me that Sting and "Nature Boy" Ric Flair would be embroiled in a dispute on AOL over who managed to attract 1 million viewers to a wrestling show. A wrestling show ran by a geeky regular at the ECW tapings, Dusty's other kid, Wild Pegasus 2 and smaller version of Rock n Roll Express..
> 💊 🤪


“Dusty’s other kid“ 😂😂😂


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> people don't trust the Bucks enough man - sad to see
> 
> 90% of the good stuff on AEW I am almost sure comes from them


So, they’re not getting much input in the show the last month or so, eh?


----------



## AuthorOfPosts

Curryfor3 said:


> And that matters because....?


Because cheaper tickets mean more people being more willing to buy tickets....!

It's a pretty well known and accepted concept.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1475831060881547273


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> So, they’re not getting much input in the show the last month or so, eh?


last 2 shows when they were back were good


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Thar she blows / iz good shit

How Cody saved Christmas edition


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1475937710997188608


----------



## Erik.

Christmas day, taped, on at 9pm up against the NFL and it went up!!? 

They really need to get it out of that usual 10pm slot because it's most certainly holding them back.


----------



## Prosper

589K with a 0.26? No bad at all for Christmas night. On any other Saturday at 9PM they'd probably be around 700K with a higher demo. Cody vs Sammy was definitely the draw. It was the first must see Rampage in a while for me.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> Christmas day, taped, on at 9pm up against the NFL and it went up!!?
> 
> They really need to get it out of that usual 10pm slot because it's most certainly holding them back.


Saturdays at 8 would get them 800k every week


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

So, revolution has basically sold out / didn’t even know tix were on sale


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1475642078306750476


----------



## 3venflow

They should ask for Rampage to go Saturday at 8 or 9pm permanently. It's a better timeslot than the late night Friday and TNT will have nothing else that rates better. 0.26 is really good for the time and day.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1475939650342735872


----------



## Prosper

They should start to look at running bigger arenas in 2022. They can probably sell out double the capacity compared to what they are booking now. I mean Revolution is a little over 2 months away and its already sold out. If the arena held 12K they probably would have sold that out by end of January.


----------



## One Shed

Very impressive for a Christmas Night show. Keep sending Hook.


----------



## One Shed

3venflow said:


> They should ask for Rampage to go Saturday at 8 or 9pm permanently. It's a better timeslot than the late night Friday and TNT will have nothing else that rates better. 0.26 is really good for the time and day.


100% agree. This show belongs on Saturday Night.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

King Cody and Prince Hook sends the demo


----------



## Prized Fighter

LifeInCattleClass said:


> King Cody and Prince Hook sends the demo


Queen Leyla of Hirsch would like a word.


----------



## Erik.

Prosper said:


> 589K with a 0.26? No bad at all for Christmas night. On any other Saturday at 9PM they'd probably be around 700K with a higher demo. Cody vs Sammy was definitely the draw. It was the first must see Rampage in a while for me.


Ahem. 

I think we all know who the real draw was. 

🪝


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Erik. said:


> Ahem.
> 
> I think we all know who the real draw was.
> 
> 🪝


Course


----------



## Mr316

Hook = Ratings


----------



## yeahright2

Ratings are in
AEW Ratings prediction game

People were bored at Christmas eve. But Legit Leyla is a draw  
Notice how there´s no Bucks or Dork order on the card, and they drew a decent number.. Coincidence? I think not.


----------



## Jay Trotter

Good rating for a Great episode. On a major holiday with big sports competition. Two years ago at this time, Dynamite was struggling to draw a 0.26 demo. It shows how much the brand has grown that their secondary show is hitting this so soon. If only they can move Rampage up an hour on a Saturday night now that College Football season is ending.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost

That's an impressive number for Christmas. All hail Codelander.


----------



## Curryfor3

AuthorOfPosts said:


> Because cheaper tickets mean more people being more willing to buy tickets....!
> 
> It's a pretty well known and accepted concept.


So what's the issue than?


----------



## Klitschko

Erik. said:


> Ahem.
> 
> I think we all know who the real draw was.
> 
> 🪝


Sasha Banks? 


That was for you @The Legit DMD lol?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Thanks Cody, you saved Christmas 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1476037229705404426


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Thanks Cody, you saved Christmas
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1476037229705404426


He’s used to drawing roughly 650k as champion, so it feels like old times.


----------



## ShadowCounter

Wow. Look at that dip for Hook. Kinda hard to blame all that on 4 minutes of women's action.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> He’s used to drawing roughly 650k as champion, so it feels like old times.


acknowledge you ratings cigar smoker


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> acknowledge you ratings cigar smoker


I did. Everyone’s favorite midcarder drew midcard ratings on the weekend undercard show. Good job.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> I did. Everyone’s favorite midcarder drew midcard ratings on the weekend undercard show. Good job.


Cody saved Christmas and it has you feeling bad, when you should be feeling joy


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Cody saved Christmas and it has you feeling bad, when you should be feeling joy


I don’t feel bad. He drew his typical “Cody as TNT champ” rating.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> I don’t feel bad. He drew his typical “Cody as TNT champ” rating.


only you can undersell a 12% rise from their lowest point, counter to their normal Rampage main event trend on Christmas night

then again, the demo was flat - so there is that


----------



## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> only you can undersell a 12% rise from their lowest point, counter to their normal Rampage main event trend on Christmas night
> 
> then again, the demo was flat - so there is that


Rampage usually sucks and has nothing on there, full of nobodies who don’t matter. Having everyone’s favorite midcarder on the show is a step up.


----------



## Randy Lahey

Clearly Saturday at 9 is a better time slot for wrestling than Friday at 10.


----------



## Geert Wilders

Randy Lahey said:


> Clearly Saturday at 9 is a better time slot for wrestling than Friday at 10.


Also Christmas Day most people would be in. I can see how wrestling would be a “family thing” for some. Rather than movies. If AEW held a Dynamite or PPV on Christmas Day I think it would do very well. Even if not live.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Mr316 said:


> Hook = Ratings


Lol @ hook being called a star

It didn't even take two weeks for him to become a channel changer.


----------



## yeahright2

ShadowCounter said:


> Wow. Look at that dip for Hook. Kinda hard to blame all that on 4 minutes of women's action.


Legit Leyla managed to bring back the viewers.


----------



## thorn123

After some lacklustre episodes, this rampage was excellent. Hopefully these viewers will come back and bring some friends.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Tony Khan definitely took Cornette's advice on the layout of Dynamite, because it got gradually more interesting as time passed instead of peaking in the first 30 minutes. *


----------



## 3venflow

Rampage finished 25th on cable, which is below where it ranks when it posts a lower rating usually - because of the many Christmas shows. NFL did insane ratings too.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Rampage finished 25th on cable, which is below where it ranks when it posts a lower rating usually - because of the many Christmas shows. NFL did insane ratings too.
> 
> View attachment 113964


Americans really love ‘a Christmas story’ don’t they


----------



## DaSlacker

Frosty the Snowman and Santa Claus putting the beat down on AEW in demo and viewership. 

1970's FTW


----------



## shandcraig

I just wanna verify that These idiot executives as of now are still planning to keep rampage on tnt right ? Dynamite moves to tb next week. I personally believe they are going to find out the hard way that this is a mistake. Not only does it make more sense for them to just have both shows on tbs but to have rampage move to Saturdays at a good time slot. Saturday would be a much more desirable slot for eve people going to the event. They could make rampage the edgy weekend show. I hope that battle of the belts tv special does well enough on Saturday that they at least see the potential to move rampage. Of course they would never move rampage to Saturdays on tnt though, to much prime movies playing on that network. tbs it is lol.


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## shandcraig

The Legit DMD said:


> *Tony Khan definitely took Cornette's advice on the layout of Dynamite, because it got gradually more interesting as time passed instead of peaking in the first 30 minutes. *


you consider last nights main event a peak ? lol I would say it did peak past 30 minute for sure but most certainty not the main event. Proper good show needs to peak every night at the very ending. Hope that changes though ! But i agree Tonys backwards thinking has not really paid off and instead we need to realize that some basic traditional formats can never be changed.


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

shandcraig said:


> you consider last nights main event a peak ? lol I would say it did peak past 30 minute for sure but most certainty not the main event. Proper good show needs to peak every night at the very ending. Hope that changes though ! But i agree Tonys backwards thinking has not really paid off and instead we need to realize that some basic traditional formats can never be changed.


*No, that was posted before Dynamite. Last night's main event was typical Tony. Way too many tag matches in general. *


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## 3venflow

Rampage was supposed to move to TBS, but Warner decided to keep it on TNT probably to give AEW some presence on that network along with the quarterly specials.

Makes me wonder how long until Warner give AEW a big one-time payment to run a major show on HBO Max.

Also, reminder that Dynamite ratings are not due until Monday morning due to New Year schedule changes. Rampage's will be available next Tuesday.


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## shandcraig

The Legit DMD said:


> *No, that was posted before Dynamite. Last night's main event was typical Tony. Way too many tag matches in general. *



meaingless mixed tag matches a your main event is just sad booking.


----------



## shandcraig

3venflow said:


> Rampage was supposed to move to TBS, but Warner decided to keep it on TNT probably to give AEW some presence on that network along with the quarterly specials.
> 
> Makes me wonder how long until Warner give AEW a big one-time payment to run a major show on HBO Max.
> 
> Also, reminder that Dynamite ratings are not due until Monday morning due to New Year schedule changes. Rampage's will be available next Tuesday.



If warner continues to be happy with aew you will 100 percent see that happen on hbomax. I dont know if it would be the case of testing a special first or doing a combo of having it air on TBS and hbomax at the same time. Makes sene to reach both markets to see who i watching it more. If its hbomax than they have consistent paying viewers watching it they could easily still get lots of money for a new deal. It will happen one day though.


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## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Americans really love ‘a Christmas story’ don’t they


It is a tradition in damn near every household that you must have “A Christmas Story” on the television as background noise come on Christmas Day.

UnAmerican to not…


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## LifeInCattleClass

bdon said:


> It is a tradition in damn near every household that you must have “A Christmas Story” on the television as background noise come on Christmas Day.
> 
> UnAmerican to not…


really? Interesting

i actually don’t think i ever watched it


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## bdon

LifeInCattleClass said:


> really? Interesting
> 
> i actually don’t think i ever watched it


It perfectly depicts Christmas before the age of consumption.


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## 3venflow

Ratings are earlier than expected.

975k / 0.37

#4 on cable behind only the college football game on ESPN.


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## Mr316

Pretty good.


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## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1476662170675036161

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LifeInCattleClass

3venflow said:


> Ratings are earlier than expected.
> 
> 975k / 0.37
> 
> #4 on cable behind only the college football game on ESPN.
> 
> View attachment 114051


is that up in the demo?

seems like it

pretty good number / next week is gonna be interesting


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## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

LifeInCattleClass said:


> is that up in the demo?
> 
> seems like it
> 
> pretty good number / next week is gonna be interesting


No it’s the same as last week 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

LifeInCattleClass said:


> is that up in the demo?
> 
> seems like it
> 
> pretty good number / next week is gonna be interesting


You right 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1476664561071706112

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*That's pretty decent with no really interesting matchups and a bunch of tag team garbage. People tuned in for a surprise and got Mercedes Martinez.*


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## Whoanma




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## Erik.

Good number ahead of their TBS move. 

They have a much better lead in on TBS with the millions that tune in to still watch The Big Bang Theory and the West Coast is back in prime time. 

Hopefully, there's no lag with people not realising they've switched channels.


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## yeahright2

Ratings are in, and with that my last run with the game
AEW Ratings prediction game
Thanks everyone who participated, we had a good run 
@LifeInCattleClass , the unbearable optimist took the final win


----------



## DaSlacker

In 2021 AEW Dynamite averaged 892,000 viewers and 0.34 demo. Up 10% from the 811,000 it averaged in 2020. But down 1.3% from 2019.

Tony Khan will sell that and spin that as a big win to the media in this cord cutting era. 

Raw averaged 1,760,000 viewers in 2021 and 0.50 demo. Down 6.6% from 2020 and down 27% from 2019.

NXT averaged 666,000 viewers and 0.16 demo. Down 4.7% from 2020 and down 15.2% from 2019.


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## LifeInCattleClass

DaSlacker said:


> In 2021 AEW Dynamite averaged 892,000 viewers and 0.34 demo. Up 10% from the 811,000 it averaged in 2020. But down 1.3% from 2019.
> 
> *Tony Khan will sell that and spin that as a big win to the media in this cord cutting era.*
> 
> Raw averaged 1,760,000 viewers in 2021 and 0.50 demo. Down 6.6% from 2020 and down 27% from 2019.
> 
> NXT averaged 666,000 viewers and 0.16 demo. Down 4.7% from 2020 and down 15.2% from 2019.


where’s the ‘spin’ ? That does seem like an actual win

especially since 2019 started only in Oct, so the launch episodes would‘ve driven up the avg


----------



## Erik.

Weekly Dynamite viewership by year, 2019-21

2019 - 898,333
2020 - 818,900
2021 - 902,943


Dynamite 18-49, 2019-21

January - N/A / .36 / .30
February - N/A / 32 / .32
March - N/A /. 33 / .30
April - N/A /. 26 / .36
May - N/A / .27 / .30 
June - N/A / .26 /. 23
July - N/A / .30 /. 40
August- N/A / .32 /. 41
September- N/A / .34 /.46
October - .47 / .31 / .32
November - .36 / .31 /.34
December - .28 / .38 / .35


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## M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1476675320929423360

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

yeahright2 said:


> Ratings are in, and with that my last run with the game
> AEW Ratings prediction game
> Thanks everyone who participated, we had a good run
> @LifeInCattleClass , the unbearable optimist took the final win


*@Firefromthegods Can we get Cornette stickied again?*


M1M2M3M4M5M6M7M8 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1476675320929423360
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*That's usually the case.*


----------



## 3venflow

Dynamite and Rampage recent performances in detail (took it from Wrestlenomics live stream):


----------



## ShadowCounter

DaSlacker said:


> In 2021 AEW Dynamite averaged 892,000 viewers and 0.34 demo. Up 10% from the 811,000 it averaged in 2020. But down 1.3% from 2019.
> 
> Tony Khan will sell that and spin that as a big win to the media in this cord cutting era.
> 
> Raw averaged 1,760,000 viewers in 2021 and 0.50 demo. Down 6.6% from 2020 and down 27% from 2019.
> 
> NXT averaged 666,000 viewers and 0.16 demo. Down 4.7% from 2020 and down 15.2% from 2019.


Wasn't AEW only on the air like 2 and a half months in 2019? And the half month was their first debut show and follow up that did a 1.4 million start. Impressive.

Jesus. Raw's down 27% in 2 years. How are they not in a full blown panic over there?


----------



## CM Buck

The Legit DMD said:


> *@Firefromthegods Can we get Cornette stickied again?
> 
> That's usually the case.*


Probably not. It's still incredibly easy to find. Still updated daily. That and I honestly don't give a fuck if anyone complains about Jim anymore.

It's obvious aew are in bed with Jim or atleast getting ideas/material from him. So the ones that are sensitive to him can deal.

Fill this current one to Max capacity then go back to dropping Jim posts like a Meltzer thing. I would ask that you only post reviews on the things generating the most buzz.

But we aren't doing safe spaces again


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

thanks Orange Cassidy for giving Adam Cole another good match people wanted to see


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1476748731349454851
thanks young bucks for the run-in to spike the ratings


----------



## elo

3venflow said:


> Dynamite and Rampage recent performances in detail (took it from Wrestlenomics live stream):


Yep, said at the time it would take months to recover after the show was jerked around the schedule by TNT for a month, you just can't get away with that when you are targeting a tech savvy audience with a million options one click away, your product becomes forgotten in a blink. A high chance they break back into the 500k P18-49 average for the tbs debut if they put Hangman v Danielson II on *LAST*.


----------



## Prosper

Nice rating and it's good to see that the main event had a spike. Was a good match. The TBS debut hopefully should get them to and keep them at around 1.1 - 1.3 overall with a 0.40 - 0.50 demo consistently when things are back to normal.


----------



## thorn123

Are there any global numbers? Plus total viewership including those that don’t watch it live.

I have never seen an episode of dynamite or rampage live.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

thorn123 said:


> Are there any global numbers? Plus total viewership including those that don’t watch it live.
> 
> I have never seen an episode of dynamite or rampage live.


nah, that’ll be near impossible to get


----------



## Erik.

LifeInCattleClass said:


> thanks Orange Cassidy for giving Adam Cole another good match people wanted to see
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1476748731349454851
> thanks young bucks for the run-in to spike the ratings


Two weeks running that Cassidy and Cole have had the highest viewership.


----------



## Erik.

According to Wade Keller on the latest PW Torch focus on AEW podcast, the minute by minute ratings for Rampage saw that the 5 minutes HOOK was on it averaged 887,000 viewers.


----------



## Randy Lahey

LifeInCattleClass said:


> thanks Orange Cassidy for giving Adam Cole another good match people wanted to see
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1476748731349454851
> thanks young bucks for the run-in to spike the ratings


Another week where the women’s segment is the lowest rated 18-49 on the show.

Just stop booking them Tony.

And the main event is a huge win for OC and Cole. Very mid-card cluster fck match at the end of the show and it does the highest number


----------



## rich110991

I’m from the UK so I don’t know about the networks but isn’t there a chance that Dynamite could start getting better ratings on TBS? Or less? What do people watch more of? TBS or TNT?


----------



## Erik.

rich110991 said:


> I’m from the UK so I don’t know about the networks but isn’t there a chance that Dynamite could start getting better ratings on TBS? Or less? What do people watch more of? TBS or TNT?


TBS is in more homes, has a better lead in and the switch means the West Coast get it back in prime time. 

Whereas the last few months on TNT the show would start at 5pm on the West Coast when people were just finishing work. 

So ideally, the ratings should go up as long as people are aware that they've moved to TBS.


----------



## rich110991

Erik. said:


> TBS is in more homes, has a better lead in and the switch means the West Coast get it back in prime time.
> 
> Whereas the last few months on TNT the show would start at 5pm on the West Coast when people were just finishing work.
> 
> So ideally, the ratings should go up as long as people are aware that they've moved to TBS.


Awesome.


----------



## yeahright2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> thanks Orange Cassidy for giving Adam Cole another good match people wanted to see
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1476748731349454851
> thanks young bucks for the run-in to spike the ratings


WWE fans tuning in to see Undisputed Era. If AEW clowns them like they have done with Cole, those viewers will be gone again.


----------



## Not Lying

Erik. said:


> Two weeks running that Cassidy and Cole have had the highest viewership.


Well I'm glad AEW is successful doing my ideas without giving me any credit. 😤









How would you book Adam Cole going forward?


Because he kinda gets in the shadow of Punk and Bryan so I hope they dont forget about him. Cole is only 32 years of age and while he is small I think he,s one of the most talented guys in wrestling. The guy just gets it. Anyone that followed him in roh moreso than nxt would know this. From...




www.wrestlingforum.com







The Definition of Technician said:


> Cole vs Orange Cassidy could be a good starter feud.
> 
> It could help see a different side of OC as well. Would love to see OC and Kris vs Britt and Cole.





LifeInCattleClass said:


> thanks Orange Cassidy for giving Adam Cole another good match people wanted to see
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1476748731349454851
> thanks young bucks for the run-in to spike the ratings


Ugh, I knew it was a terrible idea to have 2 multi-man tag matches in a row, there were too many on the show, but 2 in a row was a death spot for Kingstone.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Erik. said:


> According to Wade Keller on the latest PW Torch focus on AEW podcast, the minute by minute ratings for Rampage saw that the 5 minutes HOOK was on it averaged 887,000 viewers.


If you knew basic math you wouldn’t be repeating this 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3venflow

On his Wrestlenomics stream last night, Brandon Thurston said he expects AEW's next TV deal to rise by a higher factor than WWE's. That's not too surprising since WWE's is huge already so it's hardly going to double or triple. But he seemed to suggest AEW is in line for a huge bump next time. There's still quite some time until the next round of talks though, unless Warner bring it forward to secure AEW in the longer term. I imagine the next TV deal will soak up all of the added salaries and then some, if ticket sales haven't done that already.


----------



## omaroo

3venflow said:


> On his Wrestlenomics stream last night, Brandon Thurston said he expects AEW's next TV deal to rise by a higher factor than WWE's. That's not too surprising since WWE's is huge already so it's hardly going to double or triple. But he seemed to suggest AEW is in line for a huge bump next time. There's still quite some time until the next round of talks though, unless Warner bring it forward to secure AEW in the longer term. I imagine the next TV deal will soak up all of the added salaries and then some, if ticket sales haven't done that already.


400-500 million isn't out of the realms of possibility if the ratings get better and especially the demos.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*Here's something we can all celebrate. Happy New Year folks 🥳🎉.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477020447887794186*


----------



## Erik.

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Here's something we can all celebrate. Happy New Year folks 🥳🎉.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477020447887794186*


Always good to see wrestling do relatively well when there are so many different forms of entertainment and ways of watching said entertainment in 2021.


----------



## RoganJosh

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Here's something we can all celebrate. Happy New Year folks 🥳🎉.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477020447887794186*


Cheers mate. Happy new year!


----------



## Chip Chipperson

Erik. said:


> Good number ahead of their TBS move.
> 
> They have a much better lead in on TBS with the millions that tune in to still watch The Big Bang Theory and the West Coast is back in prime time.
> 
> Hopefully, there's no lag with people not realising they've switched channels.


You're ignoring many of your prior arguments with posts like this.

For example, in the past you and many others have argued that this audience of 900k - 1.0 million is kind of it for AEW. There is no casual audience, there aren't people waiting to get hooked by wrestling again, Tony should just cater to his product to the million smarks because that's all he's ever going to get etc.

But now you're talking about lead ins, TBS being in more homes, AEW attracting a new audience etc so what is it? Is AEW capable of attracting a new audience or incapable of doing so?

Also, if you do believe AEW can attract a new audience then wouldn't you agree that right now the product isn't capable of doing so? I assure you the kind of folks that enjoy the comedy stylings of Sheldon Cooper aren't going to be into a 20 minute opening match on Dynamite.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Happy New Year Friends! 


Cheers to all the excuses that are gonna be made this year!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

NathanMayberry said:


> Happy New Year Friends!
> 
> 
> Cheers to all the excuses that are gonna be made this year!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! Please take the time to acknowledge your Tribal Chief as the true Needle Mover of the wrestling industry. 

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477142858822004740*


----------



## CM Buck

Closing this to make a TBS ratings thread


----------

