# Kenny Omega shouldn't be having 20 minute matches with mid-carders



## Nothing Finer (Apr 12, 2017)

They say this guy is one of the best wrestlers in the world, so why is he struggling to defeat some mid-card tag teamer, being on the ropes 18 minutes into a 19 minute match and having to do a comeback urgently? It makes it look like they're on a similar level, like Trent could beat him if only he had a bit of luck. 

You don't see Brock Lesnar having 20 minute matches against Montez Ford or one of the Usos, and nobody doubts he's one of the strongest wrestlers in WWE. In real sports you don't see Novak Djokovic or Rafael Nadal regularly having close matches against guys ranked 30 in the world, far more often than not they just crush them.

Tyson Smith is clearly one of the best wrestlers in the world, if not the best, and if you disagree you are wrong, but if they want to say Kenny Omega is one of the best in the world and have it be credible he needs to stop trying to have great back and forth matches every week. If Kenny Omega is one of the world's best wrestlers he should be squashing shit wrestlers.


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## ReekOfAwesomenesss (Apr 6, 2012)

He is the best enhancement machine.


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## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

He is like AEW's Dolph Ziggler, he's there to try and make others look good.


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## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

I think they needed this match to be long because they don't have enough people or content to last 2 hours.


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Because being the best in the world doesn't mean you win easily, it means you put on long matches with everyone. I agree that he should destroy a few people, build up his prestige and then only wrestle at PPV's referring to himself as 'The Final Boss' Kenny Omega. People should earn the right to have 5 star matches with him


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

It's another aspect of AEW that isn't well thought out and doesn't make much sense. You look at Mike Tyson when he was the best boxer in the world he would ruin an opponent within 3-4 rounds (Usually much earlier). Omega should be beating guys in 5-6 minutes at an absolute maximum but if you look at his match results it's very rare that he goes under 15 minutes.

Nobody wants to see a 20 minute match on TV anyway unless it's been heavily built and truly means something. Omega Vs Trent is a 6-8 minute match at best.


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Omega hasn't been booked anywhere near like he's the best wrestler in the world nor in the company so I don't mind him putting on a great match with a fellow tag team wrestler.


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## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

AEW likes Trent and he's been getting a slow push now for awhile. He beat Penta on Dark a few months ago.


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## Wridacule (Aug 23, 2018)

It's not like he's a monster heel. I'm not saying they have the formula correct. But personally dont wanna see him destroy people in a squash. 

Maybe if he took the eddie Guerrero approach and use the majority of these types of matches to constantly outsmart his opponent? 

I wouldn't be mad at a 70 30 split. I imagine he's such a nice guy that he just wants to give the other guy a chance to shine too. I'm sure he wants the chance to get all his shit in too. 

As long as he doesn't lose, I really dont have an issue with how long the match goes. Sure there are top guys that are like Tyson that totally decimate people in a flash. But there are also top guys that stay there by being a fucking dog. Getting the shit kicked out of them but still sticking around and finding a way to win. Those guys are usually more endearing. We are talking about a babyface after all


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

MJF said:


> Omega hasn't been booked anywhere near like he's the best wrestler in the world nor in the company so I don't mind him putting on a great match with a fellow tag team wrestler.


...But that's his appeal...

Or at least it was before AEW got to him. For years fans around the wrestling world heard about the "What if Omega came to America?" comments and posts with many fans and publications proclaiming he is the greatest wrestler ever. No wrestler has more 5 star matches than Kenny Omega if I recall correctly. I personally think it's ridiculous but like it or not his entire value and character is that he is one of the greatest wrestlers in the world and according to some such as David Meltzer perhaps one of the greatest ever.

With that reputation he should be killing everyone except the big main event stars.


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## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Kenny Omega is currently an AEW mid carder. Why shouldn't he be booked like a mid carder?


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## ReekOfAwesomenesss (Apr 6, 2012)

Chip Chipperson said:


> It's another aspect of AEW that isn't well thought out and doesn't make much sense. You look at Mike Tyson when he was the best boxer in the world he would ruin an opponent within 3-4 rounds (Usually much earlier). Omega should be beating guys in 5-6 minutes at an absolute maximum but if you look at his match results it's very rare that he goes under 15 minutes.
> 
> Nobody wants to see a 20 minute match on TV anyway unless it's been heavily built and truly means something. Omega Vs Trent is a 6-8 minute match at best.


was Floyd Mayweather ruining people within 3-4 rounds when he was the best boxer in the world?


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## Jedah (Jul 16, 2017)

AEW is too dedicated to overlong matches. They did the same thing with Trent and Mox a couple of months ago.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

ReekOfAwesomenesss said:


> was Floyd Mayweather ruining people within 3-4 rounds when he was the best boxer in the world?


He was, check his early fight records when he was fighting journeyman boxers. He would often win in the first round and then when he came up against true professionals with good records who knew what they were doing his fights got stretched out a bit.

It's also not really a fair comparison with Floyd because he was fond of dragging his fights out and being a great defensive boxer. Omega has a hard hitting fast style and is all attack like Tyson.


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## ReekOfAwesomenesss (Apr 6, 2012)

Chip Chipperson said:


> He was, check his early fight records when he was fighting journeyman boxers. He would often win in the first round and then when he came up against true professionals with good records who knew what they were doing his fights got stretched out a bit.
> 
> It's also not really a fair comparison with Floyd because he was fond of dragging his fights out and being a great defensive boxer. Omega has a hard hitting fast style and is all attack like Tyson.


He wasn't the best boxer in the world when he was coming up the lighter divisions. He also made more money as the defensive wizard, best boxer in the world who wasn't putting people out. You can't make a proper correlation between the two is what I am saying. You can't book Omega like Tyson. Goldberg was like the Tyson. He wasn't good in longer fights and never rekindle the flame before the first lost.


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## CRCC (Sep 25, 2017)

One could say that AEW does not understand card placement, but Omega has been booked as a mid card guy, so going neck and neck with other midcarders is coherent. It's a waste of his talent, however.


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Jedah said:


> AEW is too dedicated to overlong matches. They did the same thing with Trent and Mox a couple of months ago.


Maybe they see something in Trent then?


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## patpat (Feb 17, 2019)

This place is the only one where I saw this complaints. Everyone else is talking about how great the match was and how trent looked legit as fuck.
And God forbid some people are actually ready to give us more than shitty squash matches and garbage 10 minutes matches.
Also in aew's canon omega's strength is his stamina, so the fact that he has to go long doesnt mean he is weak but wear down his opponent progressively before ending them.( it was explained multiple times on commentary and such)


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## patpat (Feb 17, 2019)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> AEW likes Trent and he's been getting a slow push now for awhile. He beat Penta on Dark a few months ago.


Also this.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

To me, this doesn't make Kenny Omega look any worse, if anything, it only makes Trent look better. Being the best doesn't have to mean you can only squash everyone or else you're not the best.


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## AEWMoxley (May 26, 2019)

Omega is a midcard guy, and also a midcard level talent. This is where he belongs, and there's nothing wrong with that. Not everyone can/should be a main eventer.


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## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

Hes like d.bryan where he wants to help get the best out of his opponents, do people also not remember Bret hart doing same against mid-lower card guys like 123 kid.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

He shouldn't, but it's a time where both companies deserve a lot of leeway. With short staff that extra 5-10 minutes help fill time. So won't judge them too hard.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

ReekOfAwesomenesss said:


> was Floyd Mayweather ruining people within 3-4 rounds when he was the best boxer in the world?


Uh yes lol, he wasn't knocking folk out. But he was certainly embarrassing them and leaving no doubt of who the better boxer was.


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## Nothing Finer (Apr 12, 2017)

rbl85 said:


> I think they needed this match to be long because they don't have enough people or content to last 2 hours.


Fair point, but there are ways to get round that. Have a match against a heel where he breaks up the match via shenanigans, have accidents with the referee etc.


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## ReekOfAwesomenesss (Apr 6, 2012)

RapShepard said:


> Uh yes lol, he wasn't knocking folk out. But he was certainly embarrassing them and leaving no doubt of who the better boxer was.


I was using ''ruining'' in comparison to Tyson ''ruining'' his opponents. Since the argument was the best in his field should put away his opponent early and Floyd is one of those examples that you don't need to beat your opponent quickly to be the best.


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## MaseMan (Mar 22, 2020)

AEW's booking is more like New Japan, where midcard guys can have competitive matches with main eventers, versus WWE where there is more of a strict hierarchy and midcarders get squashed by the main eventers.


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## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

Nothing Finer said:


> They say this guy is one of the best wrestlers in the world, so why is he struggling to defeat some mid-card tag teamer, being on the ropes 18 minutes into a 19 minute match and having to do a comeback urgently? It makes it look like they're on a similar level, like Trent could beat him if only he had a bit of luck.
> 
> You don't see Brock Lesnar having 20 minute matches against Montez Ford or one of the Usos, and nobody doubts he's one of the strongest wrestlers in WWE. In real sports you don't see Novak Djokovic or Rafael Nadal regularly having close matches against guys ranked 30 in the world, far more often than not they just crush them.
> 
> Tyson Smith is clearly one of the best wrestlers in the world, if not the best, and if you disagree you are wrong, but if they want to say Kenny Omega is one of the best in the world and have it be credible he needs to stop trying to have great back and forth matches every week. If Kenny Omega is one of the world's best wrestlers he should be squashing shit wrestlers.


There's a big difference from having the best matches and being a dominant wrestler. Omega needs these long matches to be the best wrestler match quality wise. If it was 2 minute match vs Trent then the match wouldn't be good.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

imthegame19 said:


> There's a big difference from having the best matches and being a dominant wrestler. Omega needs these long matches to be the best wrestler match quality wise. If it was 2 minute match vs Trent then the match wouldn't be good.


Why couldn't it be?


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## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

RapShepard said:


> Why couldn't it be?


How many matches that where 2-4 minute matches that are considered great matches. Look at history guys who are seen as best wrestlers in the world. Consistently have 10 plus minute matches not squashes.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

imthegame19 said:


> How many matches that where 2-4 minute matches that are considered great matches. Look at history guys who are seen as best wrestlers in the world. Consistently have 10 plus minute matches not squashes.


I mean you can have great short matches Goldberg vs Lesnar at Mania is an example. If he's the great wrestler folk view him as. Hell as much as wrestling fans adore non-stop action these days Kenny doing a super quick all offense match would probably be loved.


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## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

RapShepard said:


> I mean you can have great short matches Goldberg vs Lesnar at Mania is an example. If he's the great wrestler folk view him as. Hell as much as wrestling fans adore non-stop action these days Kenny doing a super quick all offense match would probably be loved.


You wouldn't be considered one of the best wrestlers in the world if you do that though. Guys who consistently have these long matches are only considered that though. So it Omega wants to keep that rep. Then he needs to have more long matches. Like the guys in New Japan do. 


Plus AEW books there talent more stronger. They don't sacrifice guys and make them look like shit and division look like shit. Unless they are one of their job guys. For example we won't see Drew McIntyre squashing Gallows/Anderson 2 on 1. Like which basically makes them and whole tag division look like shit. If Omega squashed Trent then any competitive tag match Best Friends would have going forward would make all involved look like crap. That's how AEW doesn't insult fans intelligence like WWE does. 


But mostly I think Omega wants consistent long epic matches. So people don't say Omega matches aren't as good anymore and Okada/Ospreay are now way better.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

imthegame19 said:


> You wouldn't be considered one of the best wrestlers in the world if you do that though. Guys who consistently have these long matches are only considered that though. So it Omega wants to keep that rep. Then he needs to have more long matches. Like the guys in New Japan do.
> 
> 
> Plus AEW books there talent more stronger. They don't sacrifice guys and make them look like shit and division look like shit. Unless they are one of their job guys. For example we won't see Drew McIntyre squashing Gallows/Anderson 2 on 1. Like which basically makes them and whole tag division look like shit. If Omega squashed Trent then any competitive tag match Best Friends would have going forward would make all involved look like crap. That's how AEW doesn't insult fans intelligence like WWE does.
> ...


I'm not saying have it be his norm, but saying if he's as great as folk believe he should be able to have a great short match. 

I'd argue that this style of match booking is just as "insulting" to fans intelligence as burying the tag division, especially since it's consistently done. Everybody watching that match new damn well Trent wasn't going to win the match because him and Omega are on two different levels of the pecking order. Then you can't even give Trent the props of "hey he had a hard fought match with Omega", because everybody has a hard-fought match with Omega

. It'd be one thing if Omega just ran through guys like Cima, Joey, Pac, and Sammy but then here comes Trent taking him to his limit. But if everybody has a long back and forth match with Kenny then it doesn't really elevate Trent it make him look strong.


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

optikk sucks said:


> Kenny Omega is currently an AEW mid carder. Why shouldn't he be booked like a mid carder?


Imagine the uproar if Omega signed with WWE and someone said this


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## NathanMayberry (Oct 11, 2019)

Its because every AEW match has to attempt to be a 6 star classic from Meltzer so they can use it in commercials. 

For all the shit I heard about WWE killing Omega if he joined, AEW has done far far worse. Kenny is already getting to the point where he's shown so much that even putting the belt on him and making him the Face of the Company won't do much to move the needle for him as a star or AEW as a company.


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## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

They're trying to get over Trent as a top tier up and comer. No issue with that last match.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Haven’t you heard? Kenny Omega is a genius and everything he does is on purpose, serves a purpose and purposely serves. You know when he’s boring? He does that _on purpose_ so that the other guy looks more interesting in comparison. I’ve heard he’s actually thought about making himself morbidly obese so he can help his average-sized friends get laid by standing next to them.

He also uses the health benefits he secured as an executive in the company to get medical assistance for widows without insurance. If there’s ever a bad idea, he had nothing to do with it. His only bad idea has been letting other people present their bad ideas instead of his good ideas because he is _that_ nice.

I can’t verify this one, but I’ve also heard that he only uses the name “Kenny Omega” because under his real name he cured polio and is currently working hard on a vaccine for the coronavirus. He chose “Kenny Omega” because a little girl in a hospital made it her birthday wish, and gosh darn he wasn’t going to let that little girl down.

He’s a lover, not a fighter, but he’s so good at loving it makes him good at fighting! Every time he wrestles someone they have an orgasm, and are sometimes still orgasming by the time their next match comes along!

TL;DR — Kenny Omega just goes out there and does whatever the fuck he wants to do. He doesn’t know why he does anything. It’s why his booking sucks and it is why the actual work outside the athletics is lacking and doesn’t hold people’s attention. You’re wasting your time trying to make “sense” of anything Omega does or says. You either enjoy the mindless robotics, or you don’t. Meltzer does, so Omega has this reputation of being an all-time great without ever really needing to draw, and the actuality of what he means is becoming apparent against the backdrop of the hype.


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

The Wood said:


> Haven’t you heard? Kenny Omega is a genius and everything he does is on purpose, serves a purpose and purposely serves. You know when he’s boring? He does that _on purpose_ so that the other guy looks more interesting in comparison. I’ve heard he’s actually thought about making himself morbidly obese so he can help his average-sized friends get laid by standing next to them.
> 
> He also uses the health benefits he secured as an executive in the company to get medical assistance for widows without insurance. If there’s ever a bad idea, he had nothing to do with it. His only bad idea has been letting other people present their bad ideas instead of his good ideas because he is _that_ nice.
> 
> ...


Fun fact, he's actually wrestled that girl who is in hospital. Her name? Nick Jackson


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## Nothing Finer (Apr 12, 2017)

imthegame19 said:


> There's a big difference from having the best matches and being a dominant wrestler. Omega needs these long matches to be the best wrestler match quality wise. If it was 2 minute match vs Trent then the match wouldn't be good.


That's what I'm saying, he shouldn't be having good matches every week. That's not how you treat a star.


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Nothing Finer said:


> That's what I'm saying, he shouldn't be having good matches every week. That's not how you treat a star.


He doesn't.


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## PandaPawPaw (Nov 28, 2014)

I liked him in NJPW and he came across as a big star but in AEW he doesn't look like anything special. I personally like Heel Omega then face Omega. He comes across timid as a face.


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

PandaPawPaw said:


> I liked him in NJPW and he came across as a big star but in AEW he doesn't look like anything special. I personally like Heel Omega then face Omega. He comes across timid as a face.


I actually think all of The Elite (besides Page) all come across as heels. The Bucks and Omega would definitely be best as heels. I feel like by the time Omega wins the belt, he'll be a heel.

Cody is probably one of, if not the most over face right now but I feel he works better as a heel and has the psychology down.


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## PandaPawPaw (Nov 28, 2014)

I think Hangman is like a tweener and along the lines of Stone Cold maybe but you're right about Bucks/Omega/Cody, they work way better as heels.

I just wish Omega had a bit more oomph when he speaks. Maybe that's just how he is.


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## HBK Styles Ospreay (Jan 15, 2020)

Nothing Finer said:


> They say this guy is one of the best wrestlers in the world, so why is he struggling to defeat some mid-card tag teamer, being on the ropes 18 minutes into a 19 minute match and having to do a comeback urgently? It makes it look like they're on a similar level, like Trent could beat him if only he had a bit of luck.
> 
> You don't see Brock Lesnar having 20 minute matches against Montez Ford or one of the Usos, and nobody doubts he's one of the strongest wrestlers in WWE. In real sports you don't see Novak Djokovic or Rafael Nadal regularly having close matches against guys ranked 30 in the world, far more often than not they just crush them.
> 
> Tyson Smith is clearly one of the best wrestlers in the world, if not the best, and if you disagree you are wrong, but if they want to say Kenny Omega is one of the best in the world and have it be credible he needs to stop trying to have great back and forth matches every week. If Kenny Omega is one of the world's best wrestlers he should be squashing shit wrestlers.


What is wrong with some of you people? You can't just enjoy that he put on a good show? Isn't that what wrestling is suppossed to be?

He won the match anyway, so what's better 20 mins of showcasing Kenny's awesomeness or a pointless squash? Who the hell actually watches squash matches anyway?? Those and Seth Rollins promos are what TIVO was invented for.


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## HBK Styles Ospreay (Jan 15, 2020)

RapShepard said:


> Why couldn't it be?


Name a single 2 min match worth watching...


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## HBK Styles Ospreay (Jan 15, 2020)

Nothing Finer said:


> That's what I'm saying, he shouldn't be having good matches every week. That's not how you treat a star.


A star shouldn't be on TV having good matches every week?? He should be having shit matches nobody wants to watch?

Seriously what is wrong with some of you people? Why can't people just enjoy the matches, instead of worring about stupid bullshit you can't change like booking & ratings?


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

Has Omega ever had a squash match in AEW? He's basically responsible for his own booking and I think he just likes to have long matches


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## Nothing Finer (Apr 12, 2017)

HBK STYLES OMEGA said:


> What is wrong with some of you people? You can't just enjoy that he put on a good show? Isn't that what wrestling is suppossed to be?
> 
> He won the match anyway, so what's better 20 mins of showcasing Kenny's awesomeness or a pointless squash? Who the hell actually watches squash matches anyway?? Those and Seth Rollins promos are what TIVO was invented for.


A squash wouldn't be pointless. It would establish Omega's strength. He shouldn't have equally competitive matches with mid-card guys to the one he has against the top stars, it diminishes him and diminishes the other top stars. 



HBK STYLES OMEGA said:


> A star shouldn't be on TV having good matches every week?? He should be having shit matches nobody wants to watch?
> 
> Seriously what is wrong with some of you people? Why can't people just enjoy the matches, instead of worring about stupid bullshit you can't change like booking & ratings?


I struggle to enjoy any drama if it's produced in an unrealistic way, if it doesn't make sense. It's hard to suspend my disbelief when the commentators tell me that this guy's the best wrestler in the world when he struggles to beat Trent Baretta.


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## Christopher Near (Jan 16, 2019)

Hasn't kenny himself said his time as a main eventer is over and hes all about getting other guys over


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## PandaPawPaw (Nov 28, 2014)

Christopher Near said:


> Hasn't kenny himself said his time as a main eventer is over and hes all about getting other guys over


I find that a bit of a waste tbh. So he'll never win the WHC then? As if he does then he'll be back in the main event scene..........


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## Jagaver (Aug 11, 2019)

I really don't understand this argument at all. In real sport, the top people will often come up against somebody who they struggle with for whatever reason. People are using Mike Tyson as an example but he was a one off. Look at Tyson Fury, arguably considered the best heavyweight boxer in the world but just a few months before winning the title he only just managed to beat a pretty unknown Swedish fighter, with many people thinking it should've been stopped. Maybe he wasn't fully fit, maybe he made some mistakes in preparing, maybe he took the guy too lightly, but it happens.

Omega is fighting with a probably not fully fixed broken hand which his opponent took advantage of, he's struggling to really hit his stride as a singles guy, and Trent took him to the limit. I love that they are making it that anybody can beat anybody on their day (ok maybe Marko Stunt can't beat Lance Archer) as it keeps me on my toes as a viewer. I don't want to know Kenny is going to win every match inside 5 minutes because that bores the hell out of me, I want the mid-carders to be able to step up and give the main event guys a run for their money.


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## The Masked Avenger (Apr 18, 2018)

I don't think his main eventer time is over I think he is letting the bigger guys get their time to shine first. AEW owe a lot of their early success to Jericho and Mox and he's letting them get theirs first before he becomes THE guy again. It will happen.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

HBK STYLES OMEGA said:


> Name a single 2 min match worth watching...


Are we sticking to strictly 2 minutes or a general in the vicinity of really short matches?

Braun Strowman vs James Ellsworth got Braun over more and got Ellsworth a year long run in WWE that was under 2 minutes. 

Goldberg vs Hugh Morrus helped launch Goldberg that was 2½ minutes

Ultimate Warrior vs Honky Tonk man was big for his career. That was under 2

Chris Benoit had a feud that was well received that revolved around how fast he was beating Orlando Jordan most of those were under a minute. 

Really short matches can easily get over and be enjoyed.You need to stop treating wrestling like there's some mathematic formula that if you do, X amount of moves for Y amount of time then you get a good match.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Jagaver said:


> I really don't understand this argument at all. In real sport, the top people will often come up against somebody who they struggle with for whatever reason. People are using Mike Tyson as an example but he was a one off. Look at Tyson Fury, arguably considered the best heavyweight boxer in the world but just a few months before winning the title he only just managed to beat a pretty unknown Swedish fighter, with many people thinking it should've been stopped. Maybe he wasn't fully fit, maybe he made some mistakes in preparing, maybe he took the guy too lightly, but it happens.
> 
> Omega is fighting with a probably not fully fixed broken hand which his opponent took advantage of, he's struggling to really hit his stride as a singles guy, and Trent took him to the limit. I love that they are making it that anybody can beat anybody on their day (ok maybe Marko Stunt can't beat Lance Archer) as it keeps me on my toes as a viewer. I don't want to know Kenny is going to win every match inside 5 minutes because that bores the hell out of me, I want the mid-carders to be able to step up and give the main event guys a run for their money.


The difference between Omega and your Tyson Fury example is in AEW Omega always has these type of drawn out competitive matches. Generally speaking in combat sports if somebody has a winning record, but has a record full of split decisions, they're generally considered to not be truly elite in their division. 

Look at someone like Benson Henderson he's someone who should be considered an all time great lightweight. But because he has so many wins that could be toss ups and was never really that crazy dominant lightweight like BJ Penn and Khabib or just killing guys like Tony Ferguson he gets forgotten about.


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## HBK Styles Ospreay (Jan 15, 2020)

Christopher Near said:


> Hasn't kenny himself said his time as a main eventer is over and hes all about getting other guys over


He said he accomplished all his wrestling dreams in NJPW. Also said he's not really a "fan" of wrestling anymore. So basically the fire is gone, but that doesn't mean Khan won't put the strap on him for a bit.


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## HBK Styles Ospreay (Jan 15, 2020)

RapShepard said:


> Are we sticking to strictly 2 minutes or a general in the vicinity of really short matches?
> 
> Braun Strowman vs James Ellsworth got Braun over more and got Ellsworth a year long run in WWE that was under 2 minutes.
> 
> ...


I've seen all those, and get no real enjoyment out of them.

I simply can't enjoy a match that is shorter that the time it took them to walk to the damn ring, it feels like I just wasted 15 mins of my life. I don't need everyone to go 20-30, 7-10 mins is fine. Let me see a few cool moves so it feels worthwhile to watch.


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## HBK Styles Ospreay (Jan 15, 2020)

RapShepard said:


> The difference between Omega and your Tyson Fury example is in AEW Omega always has these type of drawn out competitive matches. Generally speaking in combat sports if somebody has a winning record, but has a record full of split decisions, they're generally considered to not be truly elite in their division.
> 
> Look at someone like Benson Henderson he's someone who should be considered an all time great lightweight. But because he has so many wins that could be toss ups and was never really that crazy dominant lightweight like BJ Penn and Khabib or just killing guys like Tony Ferguson he gets forgotten about.


Bendo an all time great at 155?? Hahaha


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## Winston r (Apr 3, 2020)

The Wood said:


> Haven’t you heard? Kenny Omega is a genius and everything he does is on purpose, serves a purpose and purposely serves. You know when he’s boring? He does that _on purpose_ so that the other guy looks more interesting in comparison. I’ve heard he’s actually thought about making himself morbidly obese so he can help his average-sized friends get laid by standing next to them.
> 
> He also uses the health benefits he secured as an executive in the company to get medical assistance for widows without insurance. If there’s ever a bad idea, he had nothing to do with it. His only bad idea has been letting other people present their bad ideas instead of his good ideas because he is _that_ nice.


I'm not sure why you are so salty about Kenny Omega or AEW in general to start making these facetious posts. The fact is Omega is one of the toughest competitors in AEW and always has entertaining bouts. 

Have you heard his V trigger? It sounds like a gunshot. One of them to your jaw and it would shatter into a thousand pieces. If he hit you with a one winged angel it would most likely end your life, at the very least you would need a 6 month stay in hospital and physiotherapy to learn to walk again. 

You come across very two faced as I doubt you would say these nasty things to Kenny in person. Have some more respect for the wrestlers please.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

HBK STYLES OMEGA said:


> I've seen all those, and get no real enjoyment out of them.
> 
> I simply can't enjoy a match that is shorter that the time it took them to walk to the damn ring, it feels like I just wasted 15 mins of my life. I don't need everyone to go 20-30, 7-10 mins is fine. Let me see a few cool moves so it feels worthwhile to watch.


But that's the thing, you having an arbitrary amount of time you need a match need to go to enjoy it, doesn't mean that the majority of fans can't find enjoyment in a squash. That list I named had matches that got people over and the crowd enjoyed.





HBK STYLES OMEGA said:


> Bendo an all time great at 155?? Hahaha


I mean realistically why shouldn't he be? He's tied for the title defense record in the UFC. Has worn gold in the UFC and WEC. He has a who's who's of names he's beaten. That's the markings of somebody who should be considered a great. But as I said the fact he has so many decisions that weren't clear cut he's not viewed as well as he probably should be. I mean can you name 5 LWs who have a better LW resume than him?


----------



## HBK Styles Ospreay (Jan 15, 2020)

RapShepard said:


> But that's the thing, you having an arbitrary amount of time you need a match need to go to enjoy it, doesn't mean that the majority of fans can't find enjoyment in a squash. That list I named had matches that got people over and the crowd enjoyed.


I'm just giving my opinion of what I like. I dont speak for others, and I certainly don't get paid to worry about what they like. 

The arbitrary 7-10mins is just a randon choice, but I meant just last 1 segment between commercials. I like my mma fights short and brutal and my wrestling matches to be high flying, fast-paced spectacles.

As far as Benson, he's lost too many fights against low ranked opponents and yes the decisions (several of which are questionable). So to me he's not Top 5 all time. Hell Anthony Pettis was a champ in UFC & WEC (thanks to Benson) and Pettis didn't do much besides that, which alone tarnishes Benson.


----------



## BulletClubFangirl (Jan 30, 2016)

Most matches go on longer than they should. Hangman took 20 minutes to put some jobber away in his match before facing Jericho for the world championship. I thought they learned from their mistake by putting an emphasis on time limits and making a big deal out of Darby lasting 10 minutes with Cody or whatever it was but they went back to long matches for everyone the next week.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

HBK STYLES OMEGA said:


> I'm just giving my opinion of what I like. I dont speak for others, and I certainly don't get paid to worry about what they like.
> 
> The arbitrary 7-10mins is just a randon choice, but I meant just last 1 segment between commercials


That's just fine, I'm just simply saying Kenny could have good enjoyable matches without going long.


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

I like Kenny, but if he was in the attitude era, he wouldn't have gotten out of the midcard.


----------



## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

I get the complaint, but I don’t agree with it in this case.

There have been times where Kenny has fought guys like Sabian or Jack Evans where he had damn near 20 minute matches and they seemed out of place given their spots on the card. They would take and kick out of all of his big moves just like a main eventer would. It makes his moves feel less special.

Honestly my biggest complaint of Omega is his insistence of only using the One Winged Angel as a finish. His V Trigger looks great. His Jay Driller looks great. Those moves should finish someone off every once in awhile to make them feel more special.

But back to Trent, he is someone, while not winning many big matches, has gone toe to toe with guys like PAC, Mox, and even beat Pentagon. So Kenny taking almost 20 minutes to beat him doesn’t feel out of place.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Winston r said:


> I'm not sure why you are so salty about Kenny Omega or AEW in general to start making these facetious posts. The fact is Omega is one of the toughest competitors in AEW and always has entertaining bouts.
> 
> Have you heard his V trigger? It sounds like a gunshot. One of them to your jaw and it would shatter into a thousand pieces. If he hit you with a one winged angel it would most likely end your life, at the very least you would need a 6 month stay in hospital and physiotherapy to learn to walk again.
> 
> You come across very two faced as I doubt you would say these nasty things to Kenny in person. Have some more respect for the wrestlers please.


To me it seems more like he's insulting the fans who try to read into everything Omega does and claim it's genius that he's half arsing everything to make others look better.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

AEW's matches are too long in general. Since they wana go that route might as well make the best match out of it and put Kenny in there.


----------



## Matthew Castillo (Jun 9, 2018)

Jagaver said:


> I really don't understand this argument at all. In real sport, the top people will often come up against somebody who they struggle with for whatever reason. People are using Mike Tyson as an example but he was a one off. Look at Tyson Fury, arguably considered the best heavyweight boxer in the world but just a few months before winning the title he only just managed to beat a pretty unknown Swedish fighter, with many people thinking it should've been stopped. Maybe he wasn't fully fit, maybe he made some mistakes in preparing, maybe he took the guy too lightly, but it happens.


Hell Mike Tyson lost his championship to a can meant as an easy win to put one more notch on his belt before he fought Evander Holyfield.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Christopher Near said:


> Hasn't kenny himself said his time as a main eventer is over and hes all about getting other guys over


Who is one person Omega has actually gotten over? He’d need to be over himself to achieve that.


----------



## Jagaver (Aug 11, 2019)

The Wood said:


> Who is one person Omega has actually gotten over? He’d need to be over himself to achieve that.


I don't know why I'm bothering to reply to you, but Trent. I know *I'm* more interested in Trent now than I was a week ago, so that match will have helped get Trent over generally (in my opinion and yes, I know you don't think so).


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

It’s great you are more interested in him now, but this would need to be a widespread thing for him to be considered more over. And getting your interest could have just been done by sending him out there against anyone. It’s not really a Kenny Omega thing.

See, Mick Foley got Triple H over. He got The Undertaker over. Roddy Piper got Hulk Hogan over. Bret Hart got Steve Austin over. Hell, Shane McMahon got Steve Blackman over. No one is going anymore nuts for anyone that Omega has wrestled. If anything, Omega is closer to getting himself over with that section of the fan-base that thinks he is getting other people. When Kenny Omega wrestled someone, it is ALL about Kenny Omega.


----------



## Jagaver (Aug 11, 2019)

The Wood said:


> It’s great you are more interested in him now, but this would need to be a widespread thing for him to be considered more over. And getting your interest could have just been done by sending him out there against anyone. It’s not really a Kenny Omega thing.
> 
> See, Mick Foley got Triple H over. He got The Undertaker over. Roddy Piper got Hulk Hogan over. Bret Hart got Steve Austin over. Hell, Shane McMahon got Steve Blackman over. No one is going anymore nuts for anyone that Omega has wrestled. If anything, Omega is closer to getting himself over with that section of the fan-base that thinks he is getting other people. When Kenny Omega wrestled someone, it is ALL about Kenny Omega.


I take your point re widespread interest, but I don't think it's fair to claim that Omega had zero input into Trent's over-ness with me personally. If Trent had been out there doing 19 mins with Peter Avalon I don't think it would have elevated him at all for me, because Avalon wouldn't have been able to have the type of match we saw.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Trent my have gotten more out of having an impressive shorter showcase with someone though.


----------



## AreYaSerious (Apr 2, 2020)

I would hope they make Kenny Omega a top star, but maybe with his role he wants to help build stars, would anyone care to agree or disagree with me?


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

AreYaSerious said:


> I would hope they make Kenny Omega a top star, but maybe with his role he wants to help build stars, would anyone care to agree or disagree with me?


I don't think he's got it in him to make stars regardless of his intention. He doesn't know what that really means. He just thinks he has good matches and that will get him over with the audience. I think he _wants_ the reputation of the world's best and most selfless performer, so he's taken a lot of falls, but the constant exposure and different context to his performances has led to him being perceived as a much smaller deal than he'd like. So what he's doing is basically playing a mid-card role he thought he was too big and would transcend, but really it's just a mid-card role. 

Go into the thread about who entertains the most. Omega's name comes up surprisingly little, or with certain caveats. He's been exposed. Some are trying to say it's on purpose, but no performer sincerely ever tries to look like they aren't as good as they can be at the thing they are doing. Even the hardcore fans are kind of like "Um, what's up with Kenny? Isn't he supposed to be awesome?" 

So, I dunno. You might be right about Kenny not caring about how he was booked, or his _intention_ to make stars, but it hasn't worked out that way. The reality doesn't match the theory.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

AreYaSerious said:


> I would hope they make Kenny Omega a top star, but maybe with his role he wants to help build stars, would anyone care to agree or disagree with me?


It's been debated already that he has to get over in the US before he's even able to put anyone over. JR saying he used to be good in Japan doesn't put anyone over


----------



## AreYaSerious (Apr 2, 2020)

The Wood said:


> I don't think he's got it in him to make stars regardless of his intention. He doesn't know what that really means. He just thinks he has good matches and that will get him over with the audience. I think he _wants_ the reputation of the world's best and most selfless performer, so he's taken a lot of falls, but the constant exposure and different context to his performances has led to him being perceived as a much smaller deal than he'd like. So what he's doing is basically playing a mid-card role he thought he was too big and would transcend, but really it's just a mid-card role.
> 
> Go into the thread about who entertains the most. Omega's name comes up surprisingly little, or with certain caveats. He's been exposed. Some are trying to say it's on purpose, but no performer sincerely ever tries to look like they aren't as good as they can be at the thing they are doing. Even the hardcore fans are kind of like "Um, what's up with Kenny? Isn't he supposed to be awesome?"
> 
> So, I dunno. You might be right about Kenny not caring about how he was booked, or his _intention_ to make stars, but it hasn't worked out that way. The reality doesn't match the theory.



You make a huge point about him not being one of the most entertaining. I also feel that way with Moxely though. However let's stay on task about Omega. I feel like he should just worry about entertaining and not creating stars. It's not working for him. Him winning a big match one week and a week or 2 later losing to a nobody or an up and comer it doesn't get him over. You made very valid points.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

AreYaSerious said:


> You make a huge point about him not being one of the most entertaining. I also feel that way with Moxely though. However let's stay on task about Omega. I feel like he should just worry about entertaining and not creating stars. It's not working for him. Him winning a big match one week and a week or 2 later losing to a nobody or an up and comer it doesn't get him over. You made very valid points.


Thanks, AreYaSerious.

I really think that he needs to be led. I know people are really high on his ring work, but I do truly believe it lacks the fundamental psychology needed to get a guy over the edge with the fans at large. His best work in Japan was with guys who were great at structuring matches -- Okada, Tanahashi, Jericho. He works up to those guys' levels, and a great thing I will admit about Omega is that somehow he does seem to push them over the top. It's like the veteran gets him to control himself, then when the veteran gets him to "do his shit," the shit stands out, is emphasized, works, and the match gets over with at least hardcore fans. And that is what people point to. When he was in Japan, they didn't watch him every week having matches with John Smith (or whoever the Japanese example is) and doing the exact same thing all the time just assuming it will work _because of him_.

He's done the Jericho stuff. There isn't really a heel in AEW that can lead him. Dustin could, but I don't want to see him turn. If Dustin could put together matches as a babyface with a heel Omega, they could work out very well, but I am sceptical of a heel Omega not pulling faces and trying to be this weird gimmick no one really cares about.

Brodie Lee could be good. The Revival are coming in, so if Omega shuts the fuck up and lets them put tags together, that could work.

God, they need some more experienced heels. It's a shame they never got Punk, Orton, Brock, Styles or Nakamura, because they could have been something special. And I honestly think they thought they would have had the New Japan deal by now, meaning they could have done Okada vs. Omega on US soil. Alas, their product clashes too much aesthetically and thematically with New Japan.


----------



## HelloSir (Dec 11, 2019)

Wrestling is treated more like performance art these days. It's as if you're watching a circus show. Kenny is the "best in the world" at choreographed athletic displays


----------



## Mister Sinister (Aug 7, 2013)

If he has 20-30 minute matches with main eventers like PAC and Cody, and if he keeps winning, it does nothing but deflate the other main eventers. He is giving the rub to guys who need exposure, and these kind of match-ups give guys like PAC and Omega the stage to deliver a top-level match instead of a seven minute squash. There is a lot going on here with the longer matches. Part of it also may be due to limited roster members during these tapings. If you have fewer wrestlers available at the tapings, you let them rip it up for 30 minutes to burn up the clock.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Cult03 said:


> Because being the best in the world doesn't mean you win easily, it means you put on long matches with everyone. I agree that he should destroy a few people, build up his prestige and then only wrestle at PPV's referring to himself as 'The Final Boss' Kenny Omega. People should earn the right to have 5 star matches with him


That makes too much sense.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Imagine watching a Kenny Omega match and thinking it makes no sense as @The Wood always suggests.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

bdon said:


> Imagine watching a Kenny Omega match and thinking it makes no sense as @The Wood always suggests.


He’s awful at selling and has bad psychology. Don’t know what else to tell ya.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

The Wood said:


> He’s awful at selling and has bad psychology. Don’t know what else to tell ya.


You don’t know everything and have been proven wrong quite often. Don’t know what else to tell ya?


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

bdon said:


> You don’t know everything and have been proven wrong quite often. Don’t know what else to tell ya?


I'd like a list of these things. The only thing I can remember is I was wish-thinking New Japan had balls and would dick AEW around while they had a chance. Trying to think of another thing.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

bdon said:


> Imagine watching a Kenny Omega match and thinking it makes no sense as @The Wood always suggests.


Kenny is very hit and miss. For example. I witnessed a Kenny Omega match tonight that not only made no sense, it made me want to get some of Nak's oil, spray it in my eyes, and light a match.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Lheurch said:


> Kenny is very hit and miss. For example. I witnessed a Kenny Omega match tonight that not only made no sense, it made me want to get some of Nak's oil, spray it in my eyes, and light a match.


And hit and miss would be...fine, but it's just annoying when people like Dave Meltzer call him a genius or proclaim that he is the best now and possibly one of the best ever, lol.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Wood said:


> And hit and miss would be...fine, but it's just annoying when people like Dave Meltzer call him a genius or proclaim that he is the best now and possibly one of the best ever, lol.


Yeah Dave definitely went off the deep end a long time ago. Comparing Marko Stunt to Rey Mysterio was probably the dumbest statement he ever uttered and there have been many the past few years.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

I'm not sure he's on the take. I wouldn't go that far. But he is so desperate for this thing to succeed. I think it's a combination of them being his friends and feeling like a prisoner of WWE because he's had to watch them unopposed since 2001. Throw in a sprinkle of him wanting people to subscribe to the Observer and Tony Khan's status as a known Observer reader making his effectiveness reflective of the Observer, and I think that's where all the bias comes from. Can't have Tony Khan reading the newsletter since the 80s and then turning out to be an absolute dunce in practice.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Wood said:


> I'm not sure he's on the take. I wouldn't go that far. But he is so desperate for this thing to succeed. I think it's a combination of them being his friends and feeling like a prisoner of WWE because he's had to watch them unopposed since 2001. Throw in a sprinkle of him wanting people to subscribe to the Observer and Tony Khan's status as a known Observer reader making his effectiveness reflective of the Observer, and I think that's where all the bias comes from. Can't have Tony Khan reading the newsletter since the 80s and then turning out to be an absolute dunce in practice.


It is a win/win for him. There are so many disgruntled people in the WWE so he knows people will pass him info from there no matter what he says. If he criticizes AEW, he will lose access since they are still new and very tight nit. No room for dissent yet. Unfortunately it just makes him come across as either hopelessly biased or blind. That and he just clearly has a strong preference for flips and dives.

The funny thing for me is how he goes on and on about how the business evolves and he forgives dumb things as long as the live audience is into it (OC, Stunt, etc). But he was not that way with Hogan and Andre. His anti-Hogan bias did not allow him to give a pass when the live crowd was into it. I would be more forgiving towards him if he just admitted his bias openly. But he stands behind this fake shroud of just looking at numbers and "evolving with the business" etc. Cornette was one of his biggest defenders for years and I am glad he is finally taking him to task like so many others have.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

If you go off the Dave Meltzer ratings Kenny Omega is the greatest American wrestler that has ever lived achieving FIVE more 5 star matches than the legendary Ric Flair. Omega is also one half of the greatest match of all time achieving a 7 star match with Okada. Omega is so good that his offering with Okada is better than perfect by 2 whole stars. Omega achieved more than double the amount of 5 star matches than every single wrestler from 2000-2010 with Omega achieving 15 5 star matches and the wrestlers from 2000-2010 only achieving 7 between them all

Personally I think Meltzer is biased towards these guys because he has a friendship with them. I remember the internet going mental when Meltzer gave the first match over 5 stars and watching it. It wasn't my cup of tea and as The Wood pointed out seemed to lack psychology which I've noticed from many of these AEW and friends type wrestlers.


----------



## PavelGaborik (Oct 30, 2015)

The Wood said:


> He’s awful at selling and has bad psychology. Don’t know what else to tell ya.


Who are your favorite (current) competitors? I'm truly curious.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Lheurch said:


> It is a win/win for him. There are so many disgruntled people in the WWE so he knows people will pass him info from there no matter what he says. If he criticizes AEW, he will lose access since they are still new and very tight nit. No room for dissent yet. Unfortunately it just makes him come across as either hopelessly biased or blind. That and he just clearly has a strong preference for flips and dives.
> 
> The funny thing for me is how he goes on and on about how the business evolves and he forgives dumb things as long as the live audience is into it (OC, Stunt, etc). But he was not that way with Hogan and Andre. His anti-Hogan bias did not allow him to give a pass when the live crowd was into it. I would be more forgiving towards him if he just admitted his bias openly. But he stands behind this fake shroud of just looking at numbers and "evolving with the business" etc. Cornette was one of his biggest defenders for years and I am glad he is finally taking him to task like so many others have.


Meltzer is so desperate to cling to anything wrestling that he allows himself to be manipulated by The Elite, who simply act friendly and get the promotion they desperately need as well. Their relationship feeds off each other. Meltzer has literally no sources in WWE left and guesses very obvious things that often "change" or just never were the case in the first place.


----------



## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

I've liked Kenny's non-verbal storytelling for months while wanting to get behind his story and AEW's rise....... and then, tonight I heard him _talk_ to sell a match.

Worst. Segment. Ever.

My God, that was cringeworthy.
And it was pre-taped. My God.

His matches have always looked stupid to me, but since they always told a physical story (especially in the first and last minute), I could get through the illogical stupidity by fast-forwarding most of them.

But that talking segment killed any motivation I had to look forward to his in-ring character developments, and ignore the lack of logic in his matches.

In short, his matches are dumb.

I'm off the Omega bandwagon.


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

I guess Omega only works best as a heel. His babyface gimmick can be very cringeworthy at times. That being said, he recovered from all his goofy stuff prior to joining Bullet Club and becoming the Top heel champ. It can be done again. 

He will be a hit or a miss until that moment happens in AEW.


----------



## greasykid1 (Dec 22, 2015)

Complete dominance in matches by any wrestler, is rarely a good thing.

I can occasionally stand it for a monster heel push, but even then it gets out of hand, and then gets to the point where they just look terrible when they have to start losing. The fact is, being the best wrestler in the world is not about being able to hit one finisher and pin anyone in 4 seconds.

It's about being the best performer, the best entertainer. Being able to take a mid carder to a great match. Much like Omega did with Trent last week. When was the last time you genuinely stopped and thought to yourself, "Wow, Trent is truly a brilliant wrestler"?

I'm not minimizing his performance as a tag team wrestler, and his matches are pretty much always good, but the point is, Omega elevated him to a new level.

This is what people always used to say about good wrestlers back in what everyone claims were the best days of WWE. "Angle is so good, he could have a 20 minute classic with a broom". Yes. And he (and others like him) weren't spamming finishers and putting people away in 60 seconds. That is Omega's role now.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Having seen the tag match offering from AEW this week I'm going to go out on a limb and say Omega is nothing in the land of AEW. He could suddenly find that NJPW "form" and become king of the promos and it'd be so hard to take him seriously due to his playing with the children of AEW and having a match to decide who the "best friends" of AEW really are.

Whatever Tony Khan is paying Omega I hope it's not much because any drawing ability he might have had is very very quickly disappearing.


----------



## Runaway (Feb 14, 2020)

Always feels like two steps forward tree steps back with Omega. Just when he's starting to feel like a main guy again he does something inexplicably bush league. It's nice that him and Nak are tight, but jeez, Nak is absolutely terrible. Embarrassing, witless, sub-WWE level comedy. Channel changingly bad.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

He’ll have to damn near kill himself to wipe the stench of that stupid shit off himself. That was wrestling at it’s worse.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Lheurch said:


> It is a win/win for him. There are so many disgruntled people in the WWE so he knows people will pass him info from there no matter what he says. If he criticizes AEW, he will lose access since they are still new and very tight nit. No room for dissent yet. Unfortunately it just makes him come across as either hopelessly biased or blind. That and he just clearly has a strong preference for flips and dives.
> 
> The funny thing for me is how he goes on and on about how the business evolves and he forgives dumb things as long as the live audience is into it (OC, Stunt, etc). But he was not that way with Hogan and Andre. His anti-Hogan bias did not allow him to give a pass when the live crowd was into it. I would be more forgiving towards him if he just admitted his bias openly. But he stands behind this fake shroud of just looking at numbers and "evolving with the business" etc. Cornette was one of his biggest defenders for years and I am glad he is finally taking him to task like so many others have.


The thing I’m trying to remember is the last time Dave broke a WWE story. I’ve always defended him as a reporter too, but he’s been kind of following others on that front lately, I think. Maybe I’m wrong, because his opinions are so insane that I just can’t listen to him anymore



PavelGaborik said:


> Who are your favorite (current) competitors? I'm truly curious.


Lol, “competitors.” I think my favorite would still have to be Daniel Bryan. The best is Brock, even though hardcore fans don’t want to admit it. I love AJ. Still love Nakamura and Cesaro even though they have basically been put into the same bin together, lol. I feel like I am leaving someone out.

If you specifically mean AEW, I like MJF and Pac. I think Jericho and Cody are good, but I am so damn sick of their lack of leadership. Very self-indulgent.



bdon said:


> He’ll have to damn near kill himself to wipe the stench of that stupid shit off himself. That was wrestling at it’s worse.


Hey, good on you for calling it down the middle.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

The Wood said:


> The thing I’m trying to remember is the last time Dave broke a WWE story. I’ve always defended him as a reporter too, but he’s been kind of following others on that front lately, I think. Maybe I’m wrong, because his opinions are so insane that I just can’t listen to him anymore
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I’ve always told you I try to be as logical as possible. I don’t get called a WWE fanboy and an AEW fanboy in the same forum for nothing. Lol


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Yeah, I know you say that, but it's one thing to say it and another thing to do it. Just trying to give credit where it is due. 

I went and watched that tag. Lol, good lord -- Jericho and Shiavone can't help but bury it.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

It’s god awful.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

I think you're shooting yourself in the foot when you do things in wrestling that wrestlers and wrestling personalities have to call attention to as not making sense. For example, Shawn Spears was completely in the right with the things he was yelling about the baby oil. As was Jericho on commentary telling him to make a fucking effort. The most frustrating thing is when guys have to bend their own sensibilities to match your fuckwittery. That's why I hate Orange Cassidy. It's not just that it doesn't make sense, but YOU have to not make sense to play with it. Every instinct I would have in that role would to be to kill that fucking guy. We're working here, so I'm going to try and fuck you up and you're going to try and stop me. But if you have to curb all that to let him kick you, and instead redirect all your energy into being bemused or make it believable that you're _slowly_ getting agitated over something that should piss you off right away, then I think it's fucking selfish.

It screams to me "Look! My shtick is more important than everything you've been taught to do!" That's why all the talk of these wrestlers all getting along and being "nice guys" doesn't fly with me, because I think the humble, respectful, "nice" thing to do would be to be a fucking professional and not put your co-workers in awfully uncomfortable situations where they have to betray _themselves_ as performers. But that's just me, lol.


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

I’ve never seen Kenny wrestle until double or nothing.
I don’t find him interesting. 

the Nakazawa stuff doesn’t bother me, it’s just goofy shit like right to censor, Goldust etc, there’s a place for stupidity in wrestling.


----------



## PavelGaborik (Oct 30, 2015)

The Wood said:


> The thing I’m trying to remember is the last time Dave broke a WWE story. I’ve always defended him as a reporter too, but he’s been kind of following others on that front lately, I think. Maybe I’m wrong, because his opinions are so insane that I just can’t listen to him anymore
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why is my usage of the word "competitors" funny?


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

PavelGaborik said:


> Why is my usage of the word "competitors" funny?


Because they’re not competitors. That sounds very markish.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

The Wood said:


> Because they’re not competitors. That sounds very markish.


They're very much competitor and the first legit competitor that they have had since 2001. You sound like the biggest WWE mark in the world when you say dumb shit.


----------



## PavelGaborik (Oct 30, 2015)

The Wood said:


> Because they’re not competitors. That sounds very markish.


They're literally competitors by definition.


----------



## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

Uh. BUMP. lol


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

RainmakerV2 said:


> Uh. BUMP. lol


Now it is not even midcarders...at least tonight's was not twenty minutes. WAY too long though.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Whoever is booking Kenny (Kenny himself?) doesn't give a fuck about making him look good.

This Alan Angels fella lost in 90 seconds last week to Archer but is having a back and forth with Omega this week? This is a local independent guy who is now going back and forth with someone who you could market as a top guy...


----------



## taker1986 (Sep 14, 2016)

Honestly, Kenny would've been better off staying at home for these 6 weeks of tapings, I'd rather that than have him losing tag matches with Nakazawa as his partner and struggling to beat jobbers.

This is very frustrating because he started 2020 with a bang, having 5 star matches with PAC, Lucha bros and Bucks.

Cody, Jericho, Sammy, Archer, Wardlow, Brodie were all at the tapings that could've potentially had great matches with Omega and this is how he wants to present himself.

The guy needs to get his shit together and fast.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Who else on the active roster can give you ten minutes worth of solid action with the amount of jobbers they have in action right now? Only other person of capable of putting together good, compelling action with literally ANYONE is Pac, and he’s across the pond.

Kenny and Pac have carried the in-ring portion of Dynamite from Day 1. And it just looks all the worse now. NXT likely has a ton of their active roster available and flying them in left and right, and AEW is just jobber central outside of Best Friends, Kenny, and those involved in the TNT tourney.


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## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

They had the fucking guy kick from a v trigger. I literally turned the show off after that. Fuck me sideways.


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

At this point, I'm convinced that Kenny and Marko would wrestle to a time limit draw.


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## Mister Sinister (Aug 7, 2013)

This match with Angels came across as a challenge (backstage/creatively) to prove he could give a broomstick a match. He did it.


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Mister Sinister said:


> This match with Angels came across as a challenge (backstage/creatively) to prove he could give a broomstick a match. He did it.


He should challenge himself to get over in the American market


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## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

RainmakerV2 said:


> They had the fucking guy kick from a v trigger. I literally turned the show off after that. Fuck me sideways.


You read too much into wrestling.


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## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

They've totally backed themselves into a corner with 'every match match ends in pinfall/sub' philosophy. It might work in NJPW, where everything is a big card. Hell, it might have been fine had Dynamite ran unapposed. But booking 3 squash matches to protect the talent and then having to book one of them as a competitive match.


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## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

DaSlacker said:


> They've totally backed themselves into a corner with 'every match match ends in pinfall/sub' philosophy. It might work in NJPW, where everything is a big card. Hell, it might have been fine had Dynamite ran unapposed. But booking 3 squash matches to protect the talent and then having to book one of them as a competitive match.


they definitely need to introduce false finishes but then the people who take wrestling too seriously will moan about it.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Danielallen1410 said:


> they definitely need to introduce false finishes but then the people who take wrestling too seriously will moan about it.


Idk when or why false finishes and non finishes have such bad rep. Sometimes the best finish is to not finish to further the story


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Danielallen1410 said:


> You read too much into wrestling.


How does he?

Imagine back in the day if 2001 Rock wrestled Stevie Richards on Raw and Rock hit the Rock Bottom on Stevie only for Stevie to kick out. It'd make Rock look awful would it not? Imagine Marc Mero kicking out of a stunner from Stone Cold...



Danielallen1410 said:


> they definitely need to introduce false finishes but then the people who take wrestling too seriously will moan about it.


People who take wrestling seriously like false finishes. They add to the drama of the match when done properly.


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## Matthew Castillo (Jun 9, 2018)

RapShepard said:


> Idk when or why false finishes and non finishes have such bad rep. Sometimes the best finish is to not finish to further the story


Because they are heavily associated with Vince Russo.


Chip Chipperson said:


> How does he?
> 
> Imagine back in the day if 2001 Rock wrestled Stevie Richards on Raw and Rock hit the Rock Bottom on Stevie only for Stevie to kick out. It'd make Rock look awful would it not? Imagine Marc Mero kicking out of a stunner from Stone Cold...


Since when is the V-Trigger Kenny's finisher?


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Matthew Castillo said:


> Because they are heavily associated with Vince Russo.
> 
> Since when is the V-Trigger Kenny's finisher?


Why though not like he invented the shit lol


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## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> How does he?
> 
> Imagine back in the day if 2001 Rock wrestled Stevie Richards on Raw and Rock hit the Rock Bottom on Stevie only for Stevie to kick out. It'd make Rock look awful would it not? Imagine Marc Mero kicking out of a stunner from Stone Cold...
> 
> ...


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## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

Danielallen1410 said:


> You read too much into wrestling.


Not at all. You just had a literal high school jobber kick out of one of your top stars signature moves that he uses multiple times in big matches. Why would I give a shit about him ever hitting a v trigger again? Its just totally unnecessary and he's burying himself for no reason and his boss is too nice to tell him fuck no we aint doin that.


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

RainmakerV2 said:


> Not at all. You just had a literal high school jobber kick out of one of your top stars signature moves that he uses multiple times in big matches. Why would I give a shit about him ever hitting a v trigger again? Its just totally unnecessary and he's burying himself for no reason and his boss is too nice to tell him fuck no we aint doin that.


And to those saying "but it's not his finisher", did we or did we not just see Taz in full ESPN style going over how devastating a maneuver it was prior to the match?


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## CHAMPIONSHIPS (Dec 14, 2016)

I agree. Kenny Omega is more than capable of entertaining 5 minute sprints and that's all he should be doing with jobbers and low carders. The logic is really simple so I don't see how it's debatable. Either you agree or you don't think Kenny Omega should be a star



Matthew Castillo said:


> Because they are heavily associated with Vince Russo.












I know y'all love portraying Russo as a martyr at every opportunity but this shit got nothing to do with him. People hate false finishes because they've been overused by WWE for like 20 years. WCW overused them too but I suspect it just might be the 20+ years aftermath of WWE doing the same shit that has a lot more to do with it.


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## AEWMoxley (May 26, 2019)

I don't see the issue. A geeky non-star is being booked like a geeky non-star. AEW should be applauded for this, as it's one of the few things they are doing right. Credit to Kenny for realizing that he sucks at his job and booking himself accordingly. My respect for him as a person and a booker is at an all-time high.


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## Alexander_G (Mar 10, 2018)

All I will say is if you want to try to make stars, do it at the right time. Else, realize it is for the benefit of the company for you to go over a few jabronis with little effort. You are not them. You are Omega and you have a history that makes theirs look minuscule in the grand design. It's that simple. Your reputation in every match is important.


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## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

RainmakerV2 said:


> Not at all. You just had a literal high school jobber kick out of one of your top stars signature moves that he uses multiple times in big matches. Why would I give a shit about him ever hitting a v trigger again? Its just totally unnecessary and he's burying himself for no reason and his boss is too nice to tell him fuck no we aint doin that.


maybw the young lad isn’t going to be a jobber, maybe aew want to keep it realistic? Kenny isn’t a powerhouse, he’s a technical wrestler, there wasn’t much difference in size, the young lad put up a good fight and Kenny came out the victor due to be being the better man.

the football team I have supported have had a cup match against a side 3 leagues below them go to penalties this season, on any given day in sport anything can happen.

its like you watch just to find fault. Fucking weirdos on this forum.


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## CHAMPIONSHIPS (Dec 14, 2016)

Danielallen1410 said:


> .
> 
> its like you watch just to find fault. Fucking weirdos on this forum.


Imma be real with you man, the people who get this emotional and personal on this forum are the biggest fucking weirdos of all


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## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

CHAMPIONSHIPS said:


> Imma be real with you man, the people who get this emotional and personal on this forum are the biggest fucking weirdos of all


sorry but there is a massive toxicity on this forum and it’s no coincidence it’s come whilst the pandemic is on.


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## CHAMPIONSHIPS (Dec 14, 2016)

Danielallen1410 said:


> sorry but there is a massive toxicity on this forum and it’s no coincidence it’s come whilst the pandemic is on.


Imagine how boring it would be to talk about wrestling if we didn't critique things


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

But but but wins and loses matter


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## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

Danielallen1410 said:


> maybw the young lad isn’t going to be a jobber, maybe aew want to keep it realistic? Kenny isn’t a powerhouse, he’s a technical wrestler, there wasn’t much difference in size, the young lad put up a good fight and Kenny came out the victor due to be being the better man.
> 
> the football team I have supported have had a cup match against a side 3 leagues below them go to penalties this season, on any given day in sport anything can happen.
> 
> its like you watch just to find fault. Fucking weirdos on this forum.



....huh. This isn't a real sport. He just literally killed his own signature move that he uses 4 or 5 times in big matches. Killed it. For what? Exactly. Nothing. This reeks of Kenny trying to book this like a match with a young lion in NJPW. The only difference is in 2 or 3 years that young lion will be a star in the company. Theres reasoning for them to push Kenny. This was just dumb and theres no logical explanation for it no matter how much you try to drum up one.


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## Alexander_G (Mar 10, 2018)

You only try to make your opponent look good if you're the one who wants to look better. Other than that, your job is to well, job. Who are you that you suddenly shouldn't be a jobber but a rising threat to the whole high mid card overnight?


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Danielallen1410 said:


> the football team I have supported have had a cup match against a side 3 leagues below them go to penalties this season, on any given day in sport anything can happen.


Football teams often play mainly reserve squads when it comes to playing teams 3 leagues below. Don't know about your case specifically but the times major EPL teams have struggled against League 1 or 2 teams is generally down to the bigger team putting the bench players or reserves out with maybe 1 or 2 regulars.

Omega going all out to beat a job guy would be like Manchester United playing their first team against League 2's Swindon Town and it going to penalties. Yes it COULD happen but it'd be a once a decade type deal and would be special. The manager would be tearing his hair out in the post match speech, United would be embarrassed and ridiculed publicly whilst Swindon Town would be touted as some kind of "giant killer"


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## MaseMan (Mar 22, 2020)

I enjoyed last night's show, but Darby vs Sammy should have been the main event. Great match, and Darby standing victorious would have been a better ending to the show. 

The Dustin retirement stuff was dumb and forced. It doesn't even make sense, since he's mainly been teaming (and winning) with QT lately. So why is he suddenly all, "I need to win this match in this new singles belt tournament, or I'm done?" 

I actually like Kenny Omega's in ring work better than most on here, but he's beyond stale. He should turn heel on the rest of the Elite. He could join the Inner Circle, or start his own group or something. 

I hope the Brodie Lee vs Marko match leads to Marko joining the Dark Order. I think Marko as the annoying impish subordinate could work with that gimmick.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

TKO Wrestling said:


> They're very much competitor and the first legit competitor that they have had since 2001. You sound like the biggest WWE mark in the world when you say dumb shit.


He was talking about wrestlers, not AEW. And AEW is not competition for WWE. Look at how SmackDown performs it its slot on Friday nights for FOX and go and look at what AEW does on Wednesday nights for TNT. Then factor in that the WWE also has Raw, NXT and international TV deals for all three of these properties. Creatively, AEW's first firing shot was a staggered Battle Royal for a World Title shot at their equivalent to WrestleMania with Glacier in it. They are not competition. _Nothing_ WWE does is because they are worried about AEW. 



PavelGaborik said:


> They're literally competitors by definition.


Kayfabe, pal! 



Mister Sinister said:


> This match with Angels came across as a challenge (backstage/creatively) to prove he could give a broomstick a match. He did it.


Maybe focus on the quality of your on-camera instead of backstage challenges? 

Okay, that wasn't as good as Cult03's savage quip, but it's a fair point as well. 



Danielallen1410 said:


> You read too much into wrestling.


You know who else is too cool to read into wrestling? The people running a wrestling promotion. Whoops. 



RapShepard said:


> Idk when or why false finishes and non finishes have such bad rep. Sometimes the best finish is to not finish to further the story


It's because there is no drama in anything anymore. No one believes that Wrestler A is going down from one of Wrestler B's signature moves anymore. So you can basically throw away the start of any match. They only get it into it when the finishes start flying. Any match that ends after one finisher gets mocked online. It means talent has to work a lot more to get a lot less out of _everything_. It doesn't move wrestling into some new stratosphere, it drags the stuff that was higher lower. Instead of telling a story with some arm drags and a headlock, you've got to tell a story with dives and flips. It doesn't actually change the function of anything though. 

It's also not a false finish if no one buys it as a finish, and no one buys a finish anymore. It's all conditioning. Everyone works the same and everyone is allowed to do everything, so there's not really an art to anything anymore. It's just a dance that a smaller amount of people than before get into half as much as they used to when the moves they know start getting spammed. It's boring. Not enough emphasis is put on that when people talk about why modern wrestling keeps losing people. The in-ring work itself is boring. How many times can you see a tope con hilo and still think it's cool?



Danielallen1410 said:


> maybw the young lad isn’t going to be a jobber, maybe aew want to keep it realistic? Kenny isn’t a powerhouse, he’s a technical wrestler, there wasn’t much difference in size, the young lad put up a good fight and Kenny came out the victor due to be being the better man.
> 
> the football team I have supported have had a cup match against a side 3 leagues below them go to penalties this season, on any given day in sport anything can happen.
> 
> its like you watch just to find fault. Fucking weirdos on this forum.


You're reading too much into AEW.


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## The Masked Avenger (Apr 18, 2018)

How is this any different from Shida v Anna Jay? Anna was a no name jobber that no one had ever seen before. She had a very competitive match with someone that is by far the best female in the company and everyone loved the match and is happy that they signed her. That was like her 6th match ever. Allen Angels is a jobber that has only been wrestling for 2 years and everyone shits one Kenny because he'd rather put on an entertaining match with this guy instead of some pointless 30 sec squash?

What's the difference?


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

TBH I think Kenny and Wardlow should've switched jobbers because the dude who fought Wardlow actually looked like he could be in AEW.


TheMaskedAvenger said:


> How is this any different from Shida v Anna Jay? Anna was a no name jobber that no one had ever seen before. She had a very competitive match with someone that is by far the best female in the company and everyone loved the match and is happy that they signed her. That was like her 6th match ever. Allen Angels is a jobber that has only been wrestling for 2 years and everyone shits one Kenny because he'd rather put on an entertaining match with this guy instead of some pointless 30 sec squash?
> 
> What's the difference?


Well the big difference is that Anna Jay(y?) was someone that AEW was going to sign, so they wanted her to look decent.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> How is this any different from Shida v Anna Jay? Anna was a no name jobber that no one had ever seen before. She had a very competitive match with someone that is by far the best female in the company and everyone loved the match and is happy that they signed her. That was like her 6th match ever. Allen Angels is a jobber that has only been wrestling for 2 years and everyone shits one Kenny because he'd rather put on an entertaining match with this guy instead of some pointless 30 sec squash?
> 
> What's the difference?


I think you know the difference.

Kenny this time two years ago was considered one of the very best wrestlers on the planet. Personally I've never been a fan but I can accept that to a large amount of internet wrestling fans and the wrestling fans of Japan that Kenny is indeed a great performer and excels at a certain part of wrestling.

Him coming to America full time was a huge deal not only for AEW and the fans but I'm sure for Kenny himself personally also. I'm sure Tony Khan had to throw a very decent contract to Kenny also especially since NJPW would've wanted to keep one of their most popular gaijin wrestlers of all time.

So with that reputation and that hype he needs to be treated special. From a kayfabe perspective as this extremely talented wrestler he should be able to manhandle enhancement guys and to be honest it should've been treated like a huge deal if an AEW contracted guy managed to last 5-6 minutes with this incredibly accomplished wrestler. Enhancement guys should be put over if they can last even a couple of minutes in the ring with a guy like Omega.

Instead what they've done (Or what Kenny has done. Who knows?) is booked him just like another guy. He's out there going 15 minutes with AEW midcarders, he's doing 6 minute matches with enhancement guys who are kicking out of his signature moves and has very quickly become just another guy. If you beat Kenny in a match who really gives a fuck? He isn't a big deal anymore because of bad booking. Also, Lance Archer beat Angels in 90 seconds but it takes Kenny 6 minutes to do it which says Archer is at least double/triple as good as Kenny which makes no sense.

With Shida she's a talented athlete and has accomplishments but she wasn't main eventing Japan's biggest wrestling show of the year with almost 40,000 people in attendance a year and a bit ago. She's not a true superstar of the sport and if an enhancement talent takes her to her limit a little bit it isn't as bad as an enhancement talent taking Kenny to his limit.


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

I will admit that Chris Jericho and Tony's banter during Kenny's match was good enough to give the whole segment a thumbs up. However, if I were to watch it muted, it'd probably get a thumbs down


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> How is this any different from Shida v Anna Jay? Anna was a no name jobber that no one had ever seen before. She had a very competitive match with someone that is by far the best female in the company and everyone loved the match and is happy that they signed her. That was like her 6th match ever. Allen Angels is a jobber that has only been wrestling for 2 years and everyone shits one Kenny because he'd rather put on an entertaining match with this guy instead of some pointless 30 sec squash?
> 
> What's the difference?


People feel some sort of way about Kenny. For whatever reason...


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

But as I said after the comedy tag match, I don’t know how Tony Khan puts up with this shit. You are paying a premium price tag for The Best Bout Machine to be on your roster. You paid that extra high price tag, despite never having the WWE machine backing him, because you wanted to give fans in the states a brand and style of wrestling they have never seen.

Tomy Khan, Kenny, Cody, The Bucks, Jericho...anyone with a fucking ounce of clout in creative deserve to be blamed for his booking. You’ve all got skin, ego, reputation, etc on the line with this thing. You’ve got the best in-ring performer of the last 5-10 years on your roster. Make him earn his goddamn money.

And I get that his style is a lot more taxing on the body, so you steal the idea of @Cult03 and make him The Final Boss. You have to earn your right to get a chance to make history books with a 5+ star match. It would condition the fans to understand what the star ratings are, and why Omega is such a big fucking deal on an historical level.


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## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

Allen Angels should have never been allowed to get that much offense in on Omega if they really intend to push him which it appears they are. It just makes Omega appear weaker because Angels isn't just a jobber, he looks like a jobber. Another bad booking move by AEW along with using the Inner Circle as the Bubbly Bunch.


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

bdon said:


> But as I said after the comedy tag match, I don’t know how Tony Khan puts up with this shit. You are paying a premium price tag for The Best Bout Machine to be on your roster. You paid that extra high price tag, despite never having the WWE machine backing him, because you wanted to give fans in the states a brand and style of wrestling they have never seen.
> 
> Tomy Khan, Kenny, Cody, The Bucks, Jericho...anyone with a fucking ounce of clout in creative deserve to be blamed for his booking. You’ve all got skin, ego, reputation, etc on the line with this thing. You’ve got the best in-ring performer of the last 5-10 years on your roster. Make him earn his goddamn money.
> 
> And I get that his style is a lot more taxing on the body, so you steal the idea of @Cult03 and make him The Final Boss. You have to earn your right to get a chance to make history books with a 5+ star match. It would condition the fans to understand what the star ratings are, and why Omega is such a big fucking deal on an historical level.


Seriously, this company should hire me for all the free ideas I've given them on here. Once they realize it's not a good idea to let the wrestlers book themselves, that is.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

bdon said:


> But as I said after the comedy tag match, I don’t know how Tony Khan puts up with this shit. You are paying a premium price tag for The Best Bout Machine to be on your roster. You paid that extra high price tag, despite never having the WWE machine backing him, because you wanted to give fans in the states a brand and style of wrestling they have never seen.
> 
> Tomy Khan, Kenny, Cody, The Bucks, Jericho...anyone with a fucking ounce of clout in creative deserve to be blamed for his booking. You’ve all got skin, ego, reputation, etc on the line with this thing. You’ve got the best in-ring performer of the last 5-10 years on your roster. Make him earn his goddamn money.
> 
> And I get that his style is a lot more taxing on the body, so you steal the idea of @Cult03 and make him The Final Boss. You have to earn your right to get a chance to make history books with a 5+ star match. It would condition the fans to understand what the star ratings are, and why Omega is such a big fucking deal on an historical level.


Disagree that he's the best in-ring talent in the world, but I genuinely think that Tony Khan and Kenny Omega thought they would be working with New Japan by now. Who does Kenny Omega really have to go into gear with? He needs a great worker to really get up to that level. Yes, Jericho is great, but they did that night one and Jericho is also getting up there. Cody understands what he is doing, but he's not an A-tier wrestler. They'd have a great match.

I think these dudes counted a lot of chickens and thought that they'd have given up Omega vs. Okada and Omega vs. Ibushi by now. Or put Omega & Ibushi in a tag team. It's a consequence of them being a bit arrogant, a lack of transparency, and booking their show like a sports entertainment circus. People don't like to hear it, because they want to project that these are all nice guys who never put a foot out of line, but they did fuck over New Japan (no matter what Dave Meltzer tries to spin the story as), and when New Japan takes kayfabe seriously, they can't afford to have Tanahashi appearing on a show with Marko Stunt and Orange Cassidy. "The King of Sports crosses over with silly American wrestling" is not a headline they can afford when they are trying to sell out the Tokyo Dome.

But I think Omega expected to be spending his time between AEW and New Japan, still be presented as a big deal over there and get to work with the best puro workers in the States. And I also think there's an element of "Kenny Omega has great matches, therefore anything he has is going to be a great match," and they're just matches because they don't really understand booking.

I will say this: FTR vs. Omega & Page could be some actual classics now that Omega has workers that can keep him dialled down like Okada and Tanahashi knew how to. Page has got real potential, so some classic Revival matches will really help him along. They can keep Page in the ring and Omega out until it is actually time to do his stuff (his comeback faces will be absolutely awful though), or they can make Omega sell properly and shine Page in a perfect way that makes him look better than ever before. 

Got a feeling that FTR are going to be the best acquisitions AEW has ever made. Unless they present Miroslav Barnyashev properly, don't make him a comedy guy and encourage him to be more prize-fighter and less haircut "bury me softly, brother."


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## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

Just watched the match again.

did it escape everyone’s attention that the jobber used the ring apron to get kenny In a position that he could get some offence in?

it was early hours of the morning when I watched so I missed it.


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