# Nicki Bella really screwed it up for the divas title



## Le Duff Fluffer (May 12, 2014)

Kfchicken said:


> I'm guessing the lack of mention of the title and the Bella absence on raw was due to that bipolar promo she did a couple weeks back.
> 
> I honestly can't nicki and thought she deserved that. But I cahtnhelp but think that it hurt the divas division by mitngsbingbtge champion out on the last raw before the ppv.


wow man spell check bro. that hurt to read. Nicki being champ is just awful to begin with. She cant wrestle and sucks on the mic. Brie is 10x better wrestler and talker. Nicki is just there for her nice tits.


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## LilGeek (Nov 14, 2014)

When people say Nikki bella cant wrestle, that gets me sooo mad, when they know damn well she can. Shes the only diva on the roster that can do every ability.


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## Leonardo Spanky (May 1, 2014)

This AJ/Nikki feud has been pretty dead. The only life it had was that brief AJ promo. They need to put on a show at TLC to salvage it.


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## Karma101 (Sep 7, 2012)

I was completely confused as to why there was no interaction between her and AJ on the go home show on the PPV. She could've at least crashed AJ's award speech or something.


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## BrutusIsNotMyName (Jul 8, 2013)

Honestly I like Nikki better than Brie. Brie just uses her husbands catchphrases.

Like girl get you own damn catchphrases


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## Kfchicken (Sep 5, 2012)

LilGeek said:


> When people say Nikki bella cant wrestle, that gets me sooo mad, when they know damn well she can. Shes the only diva on the roster that can do every ability.




So she can do 4 basic moves I will likely perfectly perform after a day of practicing. So what?


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## ★Th0t Patr0L★ (Oct 22, 2013)

What the hell are you talking about?

AJ's promos are full of slut shaming and condescending attitude but we're supposed to believe she's a face? :kobe

Besides, it was the Slammy episode, no title was showcased. Not even from the people involved in title matches at TLC.


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## The Regent Alien. (Jul 26, 2014)

I LOVE PAIGE!!!


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## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

Karma101 said:


> I was completely confused as to why there was no interaction between her and AJ on the go home show on the PPV. She could've at least crashed AJ's award speech or something.


they wanted to give that moment to AJ. They don't care about the divas divisions.



Leonardo Spanky said:


> This AJ/Nikki feud has been pretty dead. The only life it had was that brief AJ promo. They need to put on a show at TLC to salvage it.


Imagine how it could've been had they allowed Nikki to speak.



Kfchicken said:


> So she can do 4 basic moves I will likely perfectly perform after a day of practicing. So what?


She does way more than those moves. Those are just some.


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## Kfchicken (Sep 5, 2012)

Jack Thwagger said:


> What the hell are you talking about?
> 
> AJ's promos are full of slut shaming and condescending attitude but we're supposed to believe she's a face? :kobe
> 
> Besides, it was the Slammy episode, no title was showcased. Not even from the people involved in title matches at TLC.



Rusev interact with swagger
Harper interacted with Ziggler 
Miz and Damien interact with uso


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## Empress (Jun 24, 2014)

BrutusIsNotMyName said:


> Honestly I like Nikki better than Brie. Brie just uses her husbands catchphrases.
> 
> Like girl get you own damn catchphrases


:lol

This is so true.


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## Kfchicken (Sep 5, 2012)

The Nutcracker said:


> :lol
> 
> This is so true.




Both Bella's are pretty bad. Brie has the slightly better moveset


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

*Yes she has, and she didn't learn her lesson:* http://instagram.com/p/wXv2ucCkJE/



> A self admitted tomboy is what they have always said about me. And a tomboy is what I've always been proud to be. One women has judged me like no other bully. Because my sister and I aren't like her, she tries to destroy us by words. By lies. I never had to do anything bad to get where I am at. Just hard work. They are afraid of what I'm going to say, so they mute me. I'm living my dream and as a universe we should open our arms to any fans that join us at any age. Just because I look different than her, she hates me. I'll never understand. So I sit here, planning, how I'm going to tear her heart at TLC just like she has done mine with all her words. Revenge is a bitch. I've had enough. If I can't talk... Then I'll show it in some other way. Can't wait to see that B in the ring. The Nikki Bella is the true heart breaker. &#55357;&#56468; #FearlessNikki


*
Continually begging for sympathy on instagram and complaining about being silenced isn't going to help your case. You're a heel, genius. Take a lesson from Ziggler, and take your sob story and shove it.*


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## Kfchicken (Sep 5, 2012)

Santa Banks said:


> *Yes she has, and she didn't learn her lesson:* http://instagram.com/p/wXv2ucCkJE/
> 
> 
> *
> Continually begging for sympathy on instagram and complaining about being silenced isn't going to help your case. You're a heel, genius. Take a lesson from Ziggler, and take your sob story and shove it.*




Why does every one of the Bella's storyline have to turn into a high school drama that 15 year old girls have


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## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

what part of it's a work don't people get by now? when there's a hashtag #FearlessNikki to finish off the statement. They want the feud to be personal.


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## Kfchicken (Sep 5, 2012)

K4L318 said:


> what part of it's a work don't people get by now? when there's a hashtag #FearlessNikki to finish off the statement. They want the feud to be personal.


I don't get it


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## Empress (Jun 24, 2014)

Kfchicken said:


> Why does every one of the Bella's storyline have to turn into a high school drama that 15 year old girls have


+1

I wanted to see some grown woman shit between Nikki and AJ. Nikki has gotten better as a heel but it's as if she wants to be a face. Sasha Banks is right. Save the sob story and just go after AJ if you need to use social media as a diary.


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## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

Kfchicken said:


> I don't get it


She's finishing her IG post with #FearlessNikki. This isn't anything other than WWE using social media to fuel the feud. 

Had it been personal Nikki would have fucked her up by now.


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## Y2Joe (Jan 4, 2010)

It's a work with overtones of real feeling. I think it's pretty well known AJ doesn't like The Bellas and vice versa.


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## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Santa Banks said:


> *Yes she has, and she didn't learn her lesson:* http://instagram.com/p/wXv2ucCkJE/
> 
> 
> *
> Continually begging for sympathy on instagram and complaining about being silenced isn't going to help your case. You're a heel, genius. Take a lesson from Ziggler, and take your sob story and shove it.*



Brie turns heel and an explanation is yet to be given.

Nikki acts like a babyface and goes fishing for sympathy on social media.


Bella twins man :allen1


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## Empress (Jun 24, 2014)

RAVEN said:


> Brie turns heel and an explanation is yet to be given.
> 
> Nikki acts like a babyface and goes fishing for sympathy on social media.
> 
> ...


:Jordan

I like Nikki though. I thought her feud with AJ would be better than it is has been since there's no love lost in real life. They should play up the tension for TV.


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## Weezy the WWF Fan (Aug 11, 2013)

Honestly, blame the stupidass scriptwriters and the ones booking this whole stupid Bella storyline.


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## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

@Nutcracker

I agree Nikki's grown as a performer but this makes her look incredibly dumb. Just a pic with a caption saying how she'll always be better than AJ and something to that effect would be so much better instead of going "I have worked so hard, fought every day for this, blah blah" :lol


*EDIT:* Oh you're Empress? :lol These Christmas names confuse me so much.


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## Kfchicken (Sep 5, 2012)

K4L318 said:


> She's finishing her IG post with #FearlessNikki. This isn't anything other than WWE using social media to fuel the feud.
> 
> Had it been personal Nikki would have fucked her up by now.




I don't think so 

High school girls always put hashtags after they finish bitching about another girl on Facebook 

And if it was a work than it is likely targeted to casuals who have no idea that she was "silenced". Also, she is s posting a baby face argument, while she isn't one. Maybe she is a little on the special side? I mean who in the hell censors "bitch" after typing it in the sebtence before?


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## LordKain (Mar 14, 2010)

Santa Banks said:


> *Yes she has, and she didn't learn her lesson:* http://instagram.com/p/wXv2ucCkJE/
> 
> 
> *
> Continually begging for sympathy on instagram and complaining about being silenced isn't going to help your case. You're a heel, genius. Take a lesson from Ziggler, and take your sob story and shove it.*


In all fairness though I think her haters are really starting to get to her personally which is why Nikki's doing this.


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## Kfchicken (Sep 5, 2012)

LordKain said:


> In all fairness though I think her haters are really starting to get to her personally which is why Nikki's doing this.



Than maybe she should find another profession.


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## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

LordKain said:


> In all fairness though I think her haters are really starting to get to her personally which is why Nikki's doing this.



Needs to embrace the hate as a heel.

Or if the hate gets to her, maybe she needs to learn from the man who runs this place :cena4


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

RAVEN said:


> @Nutcracker*EDIT:* Oh you're Empress? :lol These Christmas names confuse me so much.


*You're welcome for the gif :jordan*


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## Empress (Jun 24, 2014)

RAVEN said:


> Needs to embrace the hate as a heel.
> 
> Or if the hate gets to her, maybe she needs to learn from the man who runs this place :cena4


Hey. 

But yeah, Nikki should embrace the hate if it is getting to her. Being in the public eye isn't for the thin skinned. Imagine if The Rock had let "Die Rocky Die" get to him so bad that he quit. The Corporate Champ was some of his best work.

Nikki should be a mega bitch, not crying on Twitter/Instagram.


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## Chris JeriG.O.A.T (Jun 17, 2014)

Nikki does need thicker skin to be playing a heel but I'm sure it's gotta be frustrating that AJ gets baby face pops for heel shoots on the Bellas and they never get a chance to respond.


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## Empress (Jun 24, 2014)

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Nikki does need thicker skin to be playing a heel but I'm sure it's gotta be frustrating that AJ gets baby face pops for heel shoots on the Bellas and they never get a chance to respond.


This would frustrate me too. If AJ is gonna take shots, so should Nikki.


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Nikki does need thicker skin to be playing a heel but I'm sure it's gotta be frustrating that AJ gets baby face pops for heel shoots on the Bellas and they never get a chance to respond.


*
She only ruined it for herself. If she had just released her honest feelings on Smackdown instead of this fake PC bullshit, she would've been allowed more microphone time. You've been a conceited, condescending bitch for 8 years and now you're trying to play the "Woe is me" card because you finally got what you wanted? Yeah no. Stick with what you do best.*


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## RCSheppy (Nov 13, 2013)

Kfchicken said:


> So she can do 4 basic moves I will likely perfectly perform after a day of practicing. So what?


What does Aj do?


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## Oakue (Jul 16, 2012)

That instagram post by Nikki is weird. And if it's written in kayfabe to further the story I still find it weird. It doesn't make sense to me even as a kayfabe response to AJ putting over the NXT women. I don't know what her point was or what she was trying to say. 

I take it she continues to not like having her promo edited off Smackdown and AJ saying talent is not sexually transmitted. Okay, but Dave Meltzer and Wade Keller both confirmed that AJ line was scripted and written by the writers, that was not some shoot line. And the promo thing...WWE edits their taped shows all the time. She's not the first nor the last that will ever happen to. It's not personal.



LordKain said:


> In all fairness though I think her haters are really starting to get to her personally which is why Nikki's doing this.


GOOD. She's a heel. She should be desiring that. Why doesn't she want that? Not to many people who are supposed to be heels can get heat like that in 2014. If she can, she should run with it. It means she's fucking good at being a heel if people dislike her. That's the point of being a heel in wrestling. They're supposed to hate you and want you to fail.

I'm at a loss as to why she seems to be so upset by it. She should be loving it. It means she's doing something right.


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## Empress (Jun 24, 2014)

Oakue said:


> That instagram post by Nikki is weird. And if it's written in kayfabe to further the story I still find it weird. It doesn't make sense to me even as a kayfabe response to AJ putting over the NXT women. I don't know what her point was or what she was trying to say.
> 
> I take it she continues to not like having her promo edited off Smackdown and AJ saying talent is not sexually transmitted. Okay, but Dave Meltzer and Wade Keller both confirmed that AJ line was scripted and written by the writers, that was not some shoot line. And the promo thing...WWE edits their taped shows all the time. She's not the first nor the last that will ever happen to. It's not personal.
> 
> ...


I think Nikki wants to be liked. Instead of taking passive aggressive cues from Cena, she should reference Brock Lesnar. He legit doesn't care people think about him. At the end of the day, he's still got his money no matter what anyone says.


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## Achilles (Feb 27, 2014)

I'm not a big fan of Nikki, but at this point it makes sense to put the title on her. You can't have AJ and Paige play hot potato with it for the next ten years.


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## Dan Pratt (May 11, 2014)

I am going to get hell for this, and I swear I like AJ Lee. But here is food for thought. 

AJ and Paige's feud was bad by most peoples account. Nikki vs AJ is not going over well so far (although it is fairly new). If AJ/Nikki has been bad and AJ/Paige has been bad, well, what is the common denominator in that one? Because it sure isn't a Bella twin.

If AJ's next feud is also a dud are we going to blame it on her opponent for a third time?

I like AJ, but it might be time to take a break and let her step back. I get she sells a lot of merchandise and as the Slammy's show clearly has fan support but she could sell it for a couple months in a secondary feud.


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## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Santa Banks said:


> *You're welcome for the gif :jordan*















RAVEN said:


> Oh look who got banned :lmao
> 
> Bye bye!!
> 
> ...


:draper2


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Dan Pratt said:


> I am going to get hell for this, and I swear I like AJ Lee. But here is food for thought.
> 
> AJ and Paige's feud was bad by most peoples account. Nikki vs AJ is not going over well so far (although it is fairly new). If AJ/Nikki has been bad and AJ/Paige has been bad, well, what is the common denominator in that one? Because it sure isn't a Bella twin.
> 
> ...


*
Pretty sure every rational person in here regardless of their affiliation knows creative is to blame. Paige herself said AJ did everything in her power to put her over, meanwhile during that time, you had her marks saying AJ was intentionally burying her. This just goes to show how much corporate cares about the Divas, and it's not the first instance by a long shot.*


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## Chris JeriG.O.A.T (Jun 17, 2014)

Santa Banks said:


> *
> She only ruined it for herself. If she had just released her honest feelings on Smackdown instead of this fake PC bullshit, she would've been allowed more microphone time. You've been a conceited, condescending bitch for 8 years and now you're trying to play the "Woe is me" card because you finally got what you wanted? Yeah no. Stick with what you do best.*


The heel heat the Bellas gets transcends their wrestling characters, it's real and personal. People say the Bellas fucked to get where they're at and AJ is spamming that idea but that's not a part of their wrestling characters, nobody gets to talk about how AJ stole her idols boyfriend on TV 

Being called no talent sluts and star fuckers on the Internet is not the type of heat anybody should be looking for.


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## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

Dan Pratt said:


> I am going to get hell for this, and I swear I like AJ Lee. But here is food for thought.
> 
> AJ and Paige's feud was bad by most peoples account. Nikki vs AJ is not going over well so far (although it is fairly new). If AJ/Nikki has been bad and AJ/Paige has been bad, well, what is the common denominator in that one? Because it sure isn't a Bella twin.
> 
> ...


bruh. :clap


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

RAVEN said:


> :draper2


*:uhoh DAMMIT, got bodied by white text. I'll hold the :lose.*


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## dan the marino (Oct 22, 2006)

I wouldn't have even been able to tell you she was having a match (or who she would even have a match with) at TLCS if I hadn't read this thread.


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## Kfchicken (Sep 5, 2012)

RCSheppy said:


> What does Aj do?


What does AJ have to do with what I said? I



Oakue said:


> That instagram post by Nikki is weird. And if it's written in kayfabe to further the story I still find it weird. It doesn't make sense to me even as a kayfabe response to AJ putting over the NXT women. I don't know what her point was or what she was trying to say.
> 
> I take it she continues to not like having her promo edited off Smackdown and AJ saying talent is not sexually transmitted. Okay, but Dave Meltzer and Wade Keller both confirmed that AJ line was scripted and written by the writers, that was not some shoot line. And the promo thing...WWE edits their taped shows all the time. She's not the first nor the last that will ever happen to. It's not personal.
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure they hate her because she isn't good at playing her role, not because she is a good heel lol


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## Anglefan4life (Mar 13, 2008)

LilGeek said:


> When people say Nikki bella cant wrestle, that gets me sooo mad, when they know damn well she can. Shes the only diva on the roster that can do every ability.


Look, she's improved a lot since her debut, and yes she's better than her sister. With that said, she still blows. She really can't wrestle a real match. Each of those moves you showed are treated as spots in her match. She waits, there's a cue from the person she wrestles then move is executed rather decently. I can see the steps in the ring, from hesitate, eye contact, look at the body party you will attack, then execute. I shouldn't be able to see that. She's simply not organic and doesn't know how to piece these moves together to tell a story called a wrestling match.

With that said, you can like her all you want. This is wrestling, like who you want, no one will and can stop you. You should never "get so mad" because others disagree with an opinion. If you want to discuss you will have to learn to agree to disagree while stating an opinion. You should never enter these discussions trying to change an opinion directly. Just understand others opinions.

In the Attitude era through his exit from the company I LOVED Scotty 2 Hotty and everything he did. Marked for him and Rikishi winning the tag titles together even in 03. Watched Velocity or Heat just to catch him. I didn't care what people said about him or his character. He can wrestle to me. Just check out his match with Dean Malenko from Backlash 2000 for the Light heavyweight title. It's all about perspective. Most importantly, your own.


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## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

Anglefan4life said:


> Look, she's improved a lot since her debut, and yes she's better than her sister. With that said, she still blows. She really can't wrestle a real match. Each of those moves you showed are treated as spots in her match. She waits, there's a cue from the person she wrestles then move is executed rather decently. I can see the steps in the ring, from hesitate, eye contact, look at the body party you will attack, then execute. I shouldn't be able to see that. She's simply not organic and doesn't know how to piece these moves together to tell a story called a wrestling match.
> 
> With that said, you can like her all you want. This is wrestling, like who you want, no one will and can stop you. You should never "get so mad" because others disagree with an opinion. If you want to discuss you will have to learn to agree to disagree while stating an opinion. You should never enter these discussions trying to change an opinion directly. Just understand others opinions.
> 
> In the Attitude era through his exit from the company I LOVED Scotty 2 Hotty and everything he did. Marked for him and Rikishi winning the tag titles together even in 03. Watched Velocity or Heat just to catch him. I didn't care what people said about him or his character. He can wrestle to me. Just check out his match with Dean Malenko from Backlash 2000 for the Light heavyweight title. It's all about perspective. Most importantly, your own.


This is the first detailed response I heard of Nikki's wrestling. So now it's treated as spots. But when AJ does that it's a match? 

bro everybody does it. That's how a match goes. Especially between the divas. I can spot many of those spots in any match. So no this argument doesn't work. She's one of the most athletic divas on the roster. What ever the roster is, Nikki Bella is at least top 3 athletic and a damn good seller in the ring. She went from model/ex. pro soccer player to FCW rookie, to WWE ring worker. And now is trusted to be in ring with main girls.


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## Kfchicken (Sep 5, 2012)

Anglefan4life said:


> Look, she's improved a lot since her debut, and yes she's better than her sister. With that said, she still blows. She really can't wrestle a real match. Each of those moves you showed are treated as spots in her match. She waits, there's a cue from the person she wrestles then move is executed rather decently. I can see the steps in the ring, from hesitate, eye contact, look at the body party you will attack, then execute. I shouldn't be able to see that. She's simply not organic and doesn't know how to piece these moves together to tell a story called a wrestling match.
> 
> With that said, you can like her all you want. This is wrestling, like who you want, no one will and can stop you. You should never "get so mad" because others disagree with an opinion. If you want to discuss you will have to learn to agree to disagree while stating an opinion. You should never enter these discussions trying to change an opinion directly. Just understand others opinions.
> 
> In the Attitude era through his exit from the company I LOVED Scotty 2 Hotty and everything he did. Marked for him and Rikishi winning the tag titles together even in 03. Watched Velocity or Heat just to catch him. I didn't care what people said about him or his character. He can wrestle to me. Just check out his match with Dean Malenko from Backlash 2000 for the Light heavyweight title. It's all about perspective. Most importantly, your own.



Honestly, I think Brie is the better wrestler. Been under that impression since 2010
Brie just performs at a better pace and flow


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## Morrison17 (Feb 16, 2013)

Nikki is a good champion.
She can cut a decent promo and not in a stupid whiny manner liker AJ, she tries to wrestle and she's looks amazing (which is the only thing that matter, since it's a wwe divas division).

AJ is boring. I used to like her 2 years ago. But she's doing the same for 2 years.
Paige is great tho. WOuld like to see her winning the belt back in nea future.

And now WWE has Charlotte who is a better wrestler than 90% of all wwe superstars male or female.


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## Kfchicken (Sep 5, 2012)

K4L318 said:


> This is the first detailed response I heard of Nikki's wrestling. So now it's treated as spots. But when AJ does that it's a match?
> 
> bro everybody does it. That's how a match goes. Especially between the divas. I can spot many of those spots in any match. So no this argument doesn't work. She's one of the most athletic divas on the roster. What ever the roster is, Nikki Bella is at least top 3 athletic and a damn good seller in the ring. She went from model/ex. pro soccer player to FCW rookie, to WWE ring worker. And now is trusted to be in ring with main girls.




Why does AJ have to be mentioned? What they said was true. all of those moves lack flow and pace. You can see the two performers setting up for the spot

Also, I'm pretty sure nicki wasn't a professional soccer player. Lol


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## Anglefan4life (Mar 13, 2008)

K4L318 said:


> This is the first detailed response I heard of Nikki's wrestling. So now it's treated as spots. But when AJ does that it's a match?
> 
> bro everybody does it. That's how a match goes. Especially between the divas. I can spot many of those spots in any match. So no this argument doesn't work. She's one of the most athletic divas on the roster. What ever the roster is, Nikki Bella is at least top 3 athletic and a damn good seller in the ring. She went from model/ex. pro soccer player to FCW rookie, to WWE ring worker. And now is trusted to be in ring with main girls.


You are right about AJ. I think her personality lets me get past it. Thats one of the reasons why the microphone is so important. Unfortunately for both Bellas, that's a no go as well. There is a real reason why they pulled the plug on Bella vs Bella. It really wasn't working, not with the promos or the storytelling. There was a disconnect with the live audience (audience at home too prolly but we can't assume that one). Bellas, other than being smokin hot and using twin magic (impossible now thanks to Nikki's set of twins). We don't know who they are from a character stand point, that I think is the real problem. 

It's not easy doing this. They are performing for a live and taped audience. They are doing theatre and film/tv acting at the same time. Hence why everyone does the cues before "spots" thats theatre. The hard part is knowing where the cameras are so that you dont accidentally get caught whispering to each other, setting something up, blading (there was a time). Yes those got caught before in such a difficult field but to me, it seems its consistent in every Nikki match. Just my opinion. I don't want her to go away. She serves a purpose. I HATED what they were doing with the Bellas after Summerslam but them together in this role works for me. 

I suppose others are upset that Paige and especially Emma aren't being used for the sake of the Bella's. To me, not a big deal, Emma will get her shot eventually I hope. Paige had hers. Let them rotate a bit. Paige will be back in the hunt too someday. There's only one belt for every female, give it time.


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## BruceLeGorille (Mar 28, 2014)

LilGeek said:


> When people say Nikki bella cant wrestle, that gets me sooo mad, when they know damn well she can. Shes the only diva on the roster that can do every ability.


Now, I'm not saying nikki bella isn't a good wrestler, because she is, but if you want to debate with people, there's one point to know: knowing moves =/= knowing how to wrestle. Ric Flair could get a good match with three moves. Spot monkeys who know variations of piledriver lariatt splahs but can't wrestle for shit. Knowing how to wrestle is about construction, psychology, selling. Nikki works the head for the whole match and then use her torture rack slam. Paige works the head for the whole match with shitload of good moves and the win with a PTO. This is the problem with divas, give them too long matches and they are lost.


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## RCSheppy (Nov 13, 2013)

Nikki Bella is better right now than Aj Lee ever was in the ring.


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## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

Anglefan4life said:


> You are right about AJ. I think her personality lets me get past it. Thats one of the reasons why the microphone is so important. Unfortunately for both Bellas, that's a no go as well. There is a real reason why they pulled the plug on Bella vs Bella. It really wasn't working, not with the promos or the storytelling. There was a disconnect with the live audience (audience at home too prolly but we can't assume that one). Bellas, other than being smokin hot and using twin magic (impossible now thanks to Nikki's set of twins). We don't know who they are from a character stand point, that I think is the real problem.
> 
> It's not easy doing this. They are performing for a live and taped audience. They are doing theatre and film/tv acting at the same time. Hence why everyone does the cues before "spots" thats theatre. The hard part is knowing where the cameras are so that you dont accidentally get caught whispering to each other, setting something up, blading (there was a time). Yes those got caught before in such a difficult field but to me, it seems its consistent in every Nikki match. Just my opinion. I don't want her to go away. She serves a purpose. I HATED what they were doing with the Bellas after Summerslam but them together in this role works for me.
> 
> I suppose others are upset that Paige and especially Emma aren't being used for the sake of the Bella's. To me, not a big deal, Emma will get her shot eventually I hope. Paige had hers. Let them rotate a bit. Paige will be back in the hunt too someday. There's only one belt for every female, give it time.


If you don't build Nikki Bella who is more known to the WWE fans as stronger and more athletic than most, is shooting up on every wrestling ranking. Who will these NXT stars beat to get over? That's my debate on this. Charlotte has to beat somebody strong one day and create a feud, same with Emma and a lot of other people. 

Now as of the spots, it happens every match. Everyone, Natalya does it, Alicia does it, Trish did it, Lita, the difference is now with HD and in ring microphones it's easier to hear and spot. I love spotting that shit when I watch matches. It shows me what they are doing. It's not ideal to see but I watch if it's intended then I take into account does it make sense to the psychology of the match. 

The Bella vs Bella was ruined mostly by Brie not being able to stand her own on a mic. She just couldn't do what was needed at the time. I don't think it's over. I think it's going to be started again later on in 2015. Nikki not getting a mic to answer as heel is just WWE booking. It's bad. You're suppose to hear these girls shoot each other but if I'm clicking onto WWE today IDK who they are. I need to know who they are to invest in a storyline. 

OT And I agree with 1 poster who said it.

AJ's 2014 has been a DUD

AJ vs Paige DUD
AJ vs Fox DUD
AJ vs Paige and Fox DUD

AJ vs Nikki barely alive

They all have one common thing. It's not a Bella.


----------



## Wildcat410 (Jul 5, 2009)

Almost everything they have been doing with the Divas lately has been a dud. 

Though AJ herself was entertaining before her break, the last time the division as a whole was worthwhile was during the era of the M's (Mickie, Melina, Maryse, and Michelle.) I think Paige will end up a star but one still developing person cannot rescue this mess. They especially need a new creative drive to boot.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

BruceLeGorille said:


> Now, I'm not saying nikki bella isn't a good wrestler, because she is, but if you want to debate with people, there's one point to know: knowing moves =/= knowing how to wrestle. Ric Flair could get a good match with three moves. Spot monkeys who know variations of piledriver lariatt splahs but can't wrestle for shit. Knowing how to wrestle is about construction, psychology, selling. Nikki works the head for the whole match and then use her torture rack slam. Paige works the head for the whole match with shitload of good moves and the win with a PTO. This is the problem with divas, give them too long matches and they are lost.


Negative.

Nikki works her opponent's stamina. She applies choke holds after tackles and clotheslines. Her go to mat move is the reverse chin lock, that's what WWE wants her to do, before it was a figure four headlock. The psychology of a 3-5 min. match for her is, she's stronger than you, she will knock the stamina out of you, wear you down, and once you the face try to muster a comeback she sets up her forearm on most, the last match she landed a springboard enzugiri to set up the KO blow to set up her rack attack finisher. = power brawler w/ athleticism 

With Paige and this is my gripe with her, you're on offense, and all the sudden she does wailing elbows, a hit headbutt, knee to the gut, and you're done. She's a rookie she'll get better. But it's not good psychology at all. This WWE's fault setting her up as a brawler.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

Wildcat410 said:


> Almost everything they have been doing with the Divas lately has been a dud.
> 
> Though AJ herself was entertaining before her break, the last time the division as a whole was worthwhile was during the era of the M's (Mickie, Melina, Maryse, and Michelle.) I think Paige will end up a star but one still developing person cannot rescue this mess. They especially need a new creative drive to boot.


Respectfully disagree. What was AJ doing in 2014 before WrestleMania? what really did she do? 

Mickie is the only one on that list that was entertaining. Maybe Maryse but her wrestling was unbearable to watch at times. I think Paige is going to eventually be fed to Charlotte.


----------



## Wildcat410 (Jul 5, 2009)

K4L318 said:


> Respectfully disagree. What was AJ doing in 2014 before WrestleMania? what really did she do?
> 
> Mickie is the only one on that list that was entertaining. Maybe Maryse but her wrestling was unbearable to watch at times. I think Paige is going to eventually be fed to Charlotte.


Like I said, AJ was not enough to lift the division as a whole into good territory. But her mic speak was strong and she was doing good character work. The division still needed depth that it did not have though.

Maryse's character was certainly entertaining imo and she was pretty able on the mic. Her matches weren't great but it is not like we are getting some workrate showcase these days either. Just forgettable matches with spiritless mic and character segments. I mean when someone involved with clips like Growing Up Bella has a legit claim to being the best of the year, that says it all.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

Wildcat410 said:


> Like I said, AJ was not enough to lift the division as a whole into good territory. But her mic speak was strong and she was doing good character work. The division still needed depth that it did not have though.
> 
> Maryse's character was certainly entertaining imo and she was pretty able on the mic. Her matches weren't great but it is not like we are getting some workrate showcase these days either. Just forgettable matches with spiritless mic and character segments. I mean when someone involved with clips like Growing Up Bella has a legit claim to being the best of the year, that says it all.


good point.


----------



## LordKain (Mar 14, 2010)

Oakue said:


> GOOD. She's a heel. She should be desiring that. Why doesn't she want that? Not to many people who are supposed to be heels can get heat like that in 2014. If she can, she should run with it. It means she's fucking good at being a heel if people dislike her. That's the point of being a heel in wrestling. They're supposed to hate you and want you to fail.
> 
> I'm at a loss as to why she seems to be so upset by it. She should be loving it. It means she's doing something right.


Thats just it I don't think Nikki wants to be a heel. In fact I think if she had her way her and Cena would be an on-scrren couple just like her sister and Bryan are.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

LordKain said:


> That'a just it I don't thinks Nikki wants to be a heel. In fact I think if she had her way her and Cena would be an on-scrren couple like her sister and Bryan are.


fpalm they told her to make it personal. That's all it is. They are playing it on social media. She has 44 thousand clicking on her IG, over 1 million following it. They are playing her character off there. That's all it is. And the main play off that she is a person being handed things instead of earning it. So her character is tweener with AJ because AJ is not a babyface.


----------



## LordKain (Mar 14, 2010)

K4L318 said:


> fpalm they told her to make it personal. That's all it is. They are playing it on social media. She has 44 thousand clicking on her IG, over 1 million following it. They are playing her character off there. That's all it is. And the main play off that she is a person being handed things instead of earning it. So her character is tweener with AJ because AJ is not a babyface.


It's the WWE I think you and I should quit trying to make sense out of this rather confusing storyline.


----------



## JerichoWannabe (Feb 10, 2012)

BrutusIsNotMyName said:


> Honestly I like Nikki better than Brie. Brie just uses her husbands catchphrases.
> 
> Like girl get you own damn catchphrases


Yeah Brie is just awkward as fuck. In the ring and on the mic, but especially on the mic. Her acting is terrible.

Nikki has improved in the ring a hell of a lot, she's actually one of the better female wrestlers on the main roster these days. And she plays the bitch heel well.


----------



## Kfchicken (Sep 5, 2012)

K4L318 said:


> fpalm they told her to make it personal. That's all it is. They are playing it on social media. She has 44 thousand clicking on her IG, over 1 million following it. They are playing her character off there. That's all it is. And the main play off that she is a person being handed things instead of earning it. So her character is tweener with AJ because AJ is not a babyface.




But she didn't make it personal. She started applauding about edited out and working her ass off. If she was trying for a work shoot on insta, she failed. I'm not joking or anything but the bellas in enteral fail at story lines. They turn it into a high schoo argument.

Got example look at what one of these bellas marks negged me with









Who in the hell does the loser sign when they are 30 years old?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Kfchicken said:


> Spoiler: NEGGED


*Beautiful user cp :clap*


----------



## JBLoser (Jun 12, 2005)

K4L318 said:


> fpalm *they told her to make it personal*. That's all it is. They are playing it on social media. She has 44 thousand clicking on her IG, over 1 million following it. They are playing her character off there. That's all it is. And the main play off that she is a person being handed things instead of earning it. So her character is tweener with AJ because AJ is not a babyface.


You got some inside info bruh?

This storyline, going all the way back to the nonsense back in late June-early July, when Brie "demanded she get her job back" after she QUIT, and then having ZERO explanation for why her and Nikki were suddenly a unit again, has been abysmal. Don't try to make sense of it. It's not worth your time or effort.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

Kfchicken said:


> But she didn't make it personal. She started applauding about edited out and working her ass off. If she was trying for a work shoot on insta, she failed. I'm not joking or anything but the bellas in enteral fail at story lines. They turn it into a high schoo argument.
> 
> Got example look at what one of these bellas marks negged me with
> http://i1241.photobucket.com/albums/gg506/sjosan/A493FD12-35E0-4837-AC9E-349AC83EEFA8.png
> ...


You need to get over the loser sign. The girls do that to taunt people. What 27 year old skips to a ring? 



JBLoser said:


> You got some inside info bruh?
> 
> This storyline, going all the way back to the nonsense back in late June-early July, when Brie "demanded she get her job back" after she QUIT, and then having ZERO explanation for why her and Nikki were suddenly a unit again, has been abysmal. Don't try to make sense of it. It's not worth your time or effort.


That is what they are doing most their feuds. The whole thing driving the Nikki vs AJ is "Is it real?" her hate for the Bellas vs kayfabe, Nikki's hate for AJ not accepting who she is vs kayfabe.

You think she's just putting hashtag fearlessNikki for the hell of it? To the point people in this thread thinks she going to run to an Iphone and post on instagram, they work road house shows and she doesn't do that bro. 

They are using her social media account to keep her tweener. It doesn't take a genius to figure it out.


----------



## JBLoser (Jun 12, 2005)

I obviously know it's kayfabe. I'm just telling you that there's been legitimately zero logic throughout this entire Bella Twin BS since the start. It's better to just accept it all as pure nonsense and just hope to high heaven that it ends soon.


----------



## Kfchicken (Sep 5, 2012)

K4L318 said:


> You need to get over the loser sign. The girls do that to taunt people. What 27 year old skips to a ring?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


AJ is a little off and crazy. That's her gimmick.

What exactly is Nicki supposed to be since AJ doesn't accept Her? She is the same as 90 percent of the other divas. You re in deep denial, my friend.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

JBLoser said:


> I obviously know it's kayfabe. I'm just telling you that there's been legitimately zero logic throughout this entire Bella Twin BS since the start. It's better to just accept it all as pure nonsense and just hope to high heaven that it ends soon.


The reason they might restart the feud is because at house shows they (WWE) are having Nikki and Brie react anti to each other for losing. Brie got rolled up in one show and Nikki got in her face. They might restart this after TLC or Royal Rumble. That's my take in it.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

Kfchicken said:


> AJ is a little of adh crazyf. That's her gimmick.
> 
> What exactly is Nicki supposed to be since AJ doesn't accept Her? She is the same as 90 percent of the other divas. You re in deep denial, my friend.


AJ's gimmick isn't crazy. AJ's gimmick right now is superior small skipping girl. 

They are having Nikki go personal, breaking the wall with AJ. I'm not deep denial nothing. That's what they are showing with her. WWE is even retweeting her.


----------



## Kfchicken (Sep 5, 2012)

Pretty sure it's not small skipping girl lol. This whole feud doesn't make sense


----------



## WesternFilmGuy (Jul 25, 2014)

LilGeek said:


> When people say Nikki bella cant wrestle, that gets me sooo mad, when they know damn well she can. Shes the only diva on the roster that can do every ability.


It's a matter of opinion.


----------



## JBLoser (Jun 12, 2005)

K4L318 said:


> The reason they might restart the feud is because at house shows they (WWE) are having Nikki and Brie react anti to each other for losing. Brie got rolled up in one show and Nikki got in her face. They might restart this after TLC or Royal Rumble. That's my take in it.


fpalm 

I really, really hope it doesn't happen.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

JBLoser said:


> fpalm
> 
> I really, really hope it doesn't happen.


I hope you don't think I hope it does?


----------



## rey09176 (Dec 3, 2014)

LilGeek said:


> When people say Nikki bella cant wrestle, that gets me sooo mad, when they know damn well she can. Shes the only diva on the roster that can do every ability.


So she is an excellent wrestler because she can carry a 110 pound woman on her back, a basic head scissor submission, a drop toe hold and some sort of modified snapmare that relies completely on how well the other person sells it? Hmm I don't know..


----------



## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

You have it backwards OP. The WWE doesn't give a fuck about the Divas title and hasn't since they designed it to be shaped like a butterfly. Nikki Bella is a symptom, not a cause. If you want womens storylines that are actually interesting and a womens belt that means something, you should watch NXT.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

rey09176 said:


> So she is an excellent wrestler because she can carry a 110 pound woman on her back, a basic head scissor submission, a drop toe hold and some sort of modified snapmare that relies completely on how well the other person sells it? Hmm I don't know..


bro AJ can't even hit turn buckles correctly. 

Not enough women do what Nikki can in the ring. Very short list for the WWE.

Wendy
Beth
Jackie
Jazz
Victoria

pure power and athleticism in wrestling. Very rare.

And yeah I left Tamana off that list because she was fucking terrible.


----------



## rey09176 (Dec 3, 2014)

K4L318 said:


> bro AJ can't even hit turn buckles correctly.
> 
> Not enough women do what Nikki can in the ring. Very short list for the WWE.
> 
> ...


I've never once claimed to be a fan of any of the current WWE divas I think they all suck.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

rey09176 said:


> I've never once claimed to be a fan of any of the current WWE divas I think they all suck.


I don't think they all suck. I think whoever coordinates their match sucks. Doing the moves is one thing, creating the match is another. There's a lot of factors wrestling. You seem like you've watched some 80's wrestling am I correct?


----------



## gl83 (Oct 30, 2008)

JBLoser said:


> fpalm
> 
> I really, really hope it doesn't happen.


So what they're going to have Brie reveal it was a trick all along.That would just be horrible booking. Nikki's justification for turning on her sister this whole time was that Brie was a selfish, manipulating liar, who only cares about herself. Now, if Brie turns on Nikki to go after the title, she'll have in essence showed that Nikki was right all along. Because in the process of this scheme, she'll have lied about forgiving her sister, screwed AJ out of the title, just to give it to Nikki so she can get it all for herself. It makes Brie look horrible, because the Heel in this storyline, was actually telling the truth all along( a fact that the Face vehemently denied time and time again).


The only way it works is if Brie accidentally costs Nikki the title, and in the following weeks keeps taking losses causing Nikki to become more angry and frustrated at her ineptitude and lashes out at her(aka the LayCool split formula)until Brie has had enough.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

gl83 said:


> So what they're going to have Brie reveal it was a trick all along.That would just be horrible booking. Nikki's justification for turning on her sister this whole time was that Brie was a selfish, manipulating liar, who only cares about herself. Now, if Brie turns on Nikki to go after the title, she'll have in essence showed that Nikki was right all along. Because in the process of this scheme, she'll have lied about forgiving her sister, screwed AJ out of the title, just to give it to Nikki so she can get it all for herself. It makes Brie look horrible, because the Heel in this storyline, was actually telling the truth all along( a fact that the Face vehemently denied time and time again).
> 
> 
> The only way it works is if Brie accidentally costs Nikki the title, and in the following weeks keeps taking losses causing Nikki to become more angry and frustrated at her ineptitude and lashes out at her(aka the LayCool split formula)until Brie has had enough.


No one is invested in Brie vs Nikki with Brie costing her the title. What would they fight for? there is no logic there.


----------



## 666_The_Game_666 (Nov 18, 2009)

K4L318 said:


> No one is invested in Brie vs Nikki with Brie costing her the title. What would they fight for? there is no logic there.



But there is no logic in them being back together either. 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## knightlight (Dec 1, 2014)

Idk why people continually say Nikki isn't a capable wrestler when we've already gotten proof that she is. I don't get it but ok.


----------



## Kfchicken (Sep 5, 2012)

K4L318 said:


> bro AJ can't even hit turn buckles correctly. .
> .


i really don't get why you think the divas division circles around AJ

AJ isn't even the topic lol and NO, in all seriousness, you are over rating the bellas so much

I still can't get over that you actually called them as professional soccer players


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

666_The_Game_666 said:


> But there is no logic in them being back together either.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Which is easier to explain as Brie doing whatever for her sister. 

And what's probably going to happen is Nikki is going to snap on someone and Brie's heart is going to show. As she will be set in stone as the nice Bella. In time for Daniel Bryan's return. 

It could be Nikki attacking someone like Naomi. Or who knows maybe they have her and Paige beat somebody up badly. And Brie refuses to be a part of it. Something is going to make Brie not be cool with Nikki's ways. And Nikki will attack her. That's my bet.


----------



## 666_The_Game_666 (Nov 18, 2009)

Kfchicken said:


> i really don't get why you think the divas division circles around AJ
> 
> AJ isn't even the topic lol and NO, in all seriousness, you are over rating the bellas so much
> 
> I still can't get over that you actually called them as professional soccer players



It's what the stupid Bella marks on this forum do. Try to prove their point in saying Nikki Bella is like this world class wrestler and other women aren't in her league. 


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----------



## LordKain (Mar 14, 2010)

666_The_Game_666 said:


> But there is no logic in them being back together either.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


There's no logic behind the entire divas division anyway. It's more or less treated as an after thought by WWE management anyway which is rather sad in my opinion because it's capable of so much more if the WWE were to actually invest some time in it.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

Kfchicken said:


> i really don't get why you think the divas division circles around AJ
> 
> AJ isn't even the topic lol and NO, in all seriousness, you are over rating the bellas so much
> 
> I still can't get over that you actually called them as professional soccer players


Because it does. 

No I'm not. I'm actually being honest, it's just that your valid points to argue it are weak. 

This is what IWC does to counter

1. she fucking sucks
2. she has ring psychology 
3. she's the worst wrestler
4. (This is my favorite) Yeah she improved but improving from fucking horrible doesn't mean shit
5. Their not but reality TV whores
6. They can't wrestle

But when ever I tell them to explain that point. You can't. They can't. It's just what you're program to think and say.

Nikki was an athlete. She was going to be pro pre injury. What are you hating about that. It shows a girl that a heart for sports and wants to be in the ring now.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

666_The_Game_666 said:


> It's what the stupid Bella marks on this forum do. Try to prove their point in saying Nikki Bella is ...
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


I love how you classify them stupid. But still can't back up your point.


----------



## 666_The_Game_666 (Nov 18, 2009)

LordKain said:


> There's no logic behind the entire divas division anyway. It's more or less treated as an after thought by WWE management anyway which is rather sad in my opinion because it's capable of so much more if the WWE were to actually invest some time in it.



I've been saying f the last week that there is enough talent in the division once you cut dead weight like Mendes & Cameron for the division to be really good if you invest time in it. But Vince isn't going to do that so it's never going to happen. Would I enjoy seeing a great series of matches between Paige/Emma,Paige/Nattie or Emma/Nattie sure but it's just never going to happen. Unless your someone who likes to fantasy book on EWR or TEW. 


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----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

Rosa ain't even wrestling anymore, she's going to be paired with Fandango. Cameron, I've wanted to trade her with Sasha Banks so many times you'd think it was illegal.


----------



## Kfchicken (Sep 5, 2012)

K4L318 said:


> Because it does.
> 
> No I'm not. I'm actually being honest, it's just that your valid points to argue it are weak.
> 
> ...



Well here is my argument. NICKI IS OVERRATED.
she is Alicia Fox calibre at best.

She is not a pro soccer player, never was 

I was planning on going to cut my hair today, but I never ended up doing so. So I can't tell people I cut my hair today


----------



## 666_The_Game_666 (Nov 18, 2009)

K4L318 said:


> Rosa ain't even wrestling anymore, she's going to be paired with Fandango. Cameron, I've wanted to trade her with Sasha Banks so many times you'd think it was illegal.



Still can cut them either really don't serve a huge purpose outside Total Divas. Plus you cut them more room for the girls from NXT 


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----------



## 666_The_Game_666 (Nov 18, 2009)

Kfchicken said:


> Well here is my argument. NICKI IS OVERRATED.
> 
> she is Alicia Fox calibre at best.
> 
> ...



Actualy think both played soccer in college. 


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----------



## Kfchicken (Sep 5, 2012)

666_The_Game_666 said:


> Actualy think both played soccer in college.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Not pro. thats my point.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

666_The_Game_666 said:


> Still can cut them either really don't serve a huge purpose outside Total Divas. Plus you cut them more room for the girls from NXT
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Well Rosa is there for Fandango for the foreseeable future. She matches his gimmick. No one wants to see her wrestle. 

The rest I agree with you.


----------



## 666_The_Game_666 (Nov 18, 2009)

Kfchicken said:


> Not pro. thats my point.



College level is nothing to complain about though. 


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----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

666_The_Game_666 said:


> Actualy think both played soccer in college.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


for womens that's considered pro Because it's from there to team USA olympics. Not an MLS league because there is none.


----------



## Kfchicken (Sep 5, 2012)

666_The_Game_666 said:


> College level is nothing to complain about though.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App



But tee it rally matter if she played soccer or not? Just because you plums sport, doesn't mean you are a good wrestler.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

Kfchicken said:


> But tee it rally matter if she played soccer or not? Just because you plums sport, doesn't mean you are a good wrestler.


But she is a good wrestler. LOLS


----------



## Kfchicken (Sep 5, 2012)

K4L318 said:


> for womens that's considered pro Because it's from there to team USA olympics. Not an MLS league because there is none.



Yes there is an women's USA team.


----------



## Kfchicken (Sep 5, 2012)

K4L318 said:


> But she is a good wrestler. LOLS



She is passable. She is doing the job. But nothing special. A least that's Hownj see it


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

Kfchicken said:


> Yes there is an women's USA team.


And where do they pick those women from?


----------



## Kfchicken (Sep 5, 2012)

K4L318 said:


> And where do they pick those women from?




Mostly From here

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Women's_Soccer_League


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

Kfchicken said:


> Mostly From here
> 
> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Women's_Soccer_League


and where do those women come from? you know it's college, stop it. LOLS


----------



## Kfchicken (Sep 5, 2012)

K4L318 said:


> and where do those women come from? you know it's college, stop it. LOLS




Obviously. But playing college isn't pro. You have to be nuts to think that.

bt your logic kids playing under 10 weekend soccer are pros since that's where you start. You clearly have no idea how sports work. I'm sorry but that's what I am seeing


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

Kfchicken said:


> Obviously. But playing college isn't pro. You have to be nuts to think that.
> 
> bt your logic kids playing under 10 weekend soccer are pros since that's where you start. You clearly haveb bonuses how sports work. I'm sorry but that's what I am seeing


For women in the United States, since the 95 team. The college pros are seen as soccer pros. Some of the best athletes of the world came from the colleges. 

Alex Morgan went from Cal to FC. In USA the colleges are pro. The difference is they don't get paid. Which some athletes absolutely hate because the school programs are ripping them off.


----------



## Kfchicken (Sep 5, 2012)

K4L318 said:


> For women in the United States, since the 95 team. The college pros are seen as soccer pros. Some of the best athletes of the world came from the colleges.
> 
> Alex Morgan went from Cal to FC. In USA the colleges are pro. The difference is they don't get paid. Which some athletes absolutely hate because the school programs are ripping them off.



False. But even if you were correct, they are not pro. Professional means it is your profession, which also means they paid for it. College soccer is not professional.


----------



## Yes Era (Dec 8, 2013)

Lol..people still acting Nikki is even half as good as AJ. Crazy.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

Kfchicken said:


> False. But even if you were correct, they are not pro. Professional means it is your profession, which also means they paid for it. College soccer is not professional.


Professsional just means you're paid in a league bro.


----------



## Kfchicken (Sep 5, 2012)

K4L318 said:


> Professsional just means you're paid in a league bro.


Yeah exactly so college ain't professional dude.

Who cares anyways? dont get why playing soccer has to do with any of this


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

Kfchicken said:


> Yeah exactly so college ain't professional dude.
> 
> Who cares anyways? dont get why playing soccer has to do with any of this


because you were trying to say she wasn't a pro athlete? when she actually was, only thing that stopped her was she broke her leg and still is a pro since she even worked at FCW prior to WWE. But it's cool. LOLS


----------



## bodyslam316 (Feb 18, 2014)

Nikki is there to keep Cena happy. That is all.


----------



## Kfchicken (Sep 5, 2012)

K4L318 said:


> because you were trying to say she wasn't a pro athlete? when she actually was, only thing that stopped her was she broke her leg and still is a pro since she even worked at FCW prior to WWE. But it's cool. LOLS




But she wasn't a pro athlete 
being in FCW doesn't make you a soccer pro


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

Kfchicken said:


> *But she wasn't a pro athlete*
> being in FCW doesn't make you a soccer pro












No it makes you a wrestling pro. 

But being a soccer athlete in college makes you a pro. Let it go.


----------



## Kfchicken (Sep 5, 2012)

K4L318 said:


> No it makes you a wrestling pro.
> 
> But being a soccer athlete in college makes you a pro. Let it go.




Well yeah duh, she is a professional wrestler. I muddled up my words. supposed to say pro soccer player. 

But sure thing! Being a college soccer player is totally the same as a pro soccer player..... In crazy lala land
If someone should go to a professional women soccer player and tell her all that. She'll probably give them a black eye lol

Oh yeah btw, saying let it go doesn't make your point stronger. Just a tip


----------



## Ghost of Wrestling (Jul 28, 2012)

No matter what the Bella does, no one ,except their marks, understand what they are doing. It is a big problem when you can present clearly what you are doing to the audience. 
Bella Mark(K4L318) can say Brie is willing to do anything for Nikki now, but after their Family feud, it's very hard for most audience to understand that. They should wait a few months before uniting the Bella twins together again.

As for AJ(dont know why she is drag into this thread that is talking about Nikki), she's been doing her crazy gimmick like forever. Aj is constant on her given Role, so everyone understand her "Crazy" act. When someone keep calling the Diva title her Baby, you can get that she is crazy. 
She may not be doing a lot of wrestling nowadays, but at least *most audience already acknowledge AJ can wrestle*.

Stop giving me a neg, what's the point of it anyways?


----------



## GNR4LIFE (Dec 27, 2012)

LilGeek said:


> When people say Nikki bella cant wrestle, that gets me sooo mad, when they know damn well she can. Shes the only diva on the roster that can do every ability.


What the fuck does ''do every ability'' mean. How do you do an ability?


----------



## Kevin_McAdams (Jan 3, 2012)

GNR4LIFE said:


> What the fuck does ''do every ability'' mean. How do you do an ability?


In Summary, Nikki Bella has the power to have all the powers in the world.


----------



## Kfchicken (Sep 5, 2012)

GNR4LIFE said:


> What the fuck does ''do every ability'' mean. How do you do an ability?





Kevin_McAdams said:


> In Summary, Nikki Bella has the power to have all the powers in the world.



This is straight out Pokemon and dragonball Z shit


----------



## LilGeek (Nov 14, 2014)

RCSheppy said:


> What does Aj do?




































these moves over and over.

- couldn't find the running clothesline

This is why I can't support anyone when they say, "Aj lee's the best wrestling Diva on the roster."


----------



## LilGeek (Nov 14, 2014)

BruceLeGorille said:


> Now, I'm not saying nikki bella isn't a good wrestler, because she is, but if you want to debate with people, there's one point to know: knowing moves =/= knowing how to wrestle. Ric Flair could get a good match with three moves. Spot monkeys who know variations of piledriver lariatt splahs but can't wrestle for shit. Knowing how to wrestle is about construction, psychology, selling. Nikki works the head for the whole match and then use her torture rack slam. Paige works the head for the whole match with shitload of good moves and the win with a PTO. This is the problem with divas, give them too long matches and they are lost.



The Paige vs. Naomi match at MITB was long but they didn't seem lost.


----------



## Kfchicken (Sep 5, 2012)

LilGeek said:


> these moves over and over.
> 
> - couldn't find the running clothesline
> 
> This is why I can't support anyone when they say, "Aj lee's the best wrestling Diva on the roster."


AJ APPARENYLY apparently only has 5 moves and yet I don't think
Nicki Bella can perform any of them lol


----------



## Coyotex (Jun 28, 2011)

first it was Aj now its Nikki.....geez, it doesn't matter which diva is holding the belt at this point as long as the wwe keeps giving them like 2 minutes air time and overall books them like shit even your favorite diva whomever that may be will look like a joke

the diva's division in nxt has more depth than the main show and im not even saying that because of the talent because its not the talent its the booking they are given better material, given more airtime, given more feuds etc etc ...as an example look at Paige's championship run in nxt, Summer Rae's championship run, Charlotte's current run and compare that to the shit you see on raw


----------



## FearlessNikki (Aug 27, 2014)

Kfchicken said:


> AJ APPARENYLY apparently only has 5 moves and yet I don't think
> Nicki Bella can perform any of them lol


AJ literally has 9 wrestling moves if you don't count the restholds. The only moves AJ has done that Nikki hasn't is a spinning kick, wheel barrow roll up, and black widow. There's way more moves Nikki can do that AJ isn't physically capable of.


----------



## Gametoo (May 22, 2014)

You can't even spell her name right OP, can you?


----------



## Addychu (Nov 26, 2014)

FearlessNikki said:


> AJ literally has 9 wrestling moves if you don't count the restholds. The only moves AJ has done that Nikki hasn't is a spinning kick, wheel barrow roll up, and black widow. There's way more moves Nikki can do that AJ isn't physically capable of.


Well I think AJ does her moves much better than Nikki though, maybe its how small she is etc, I dont know...


----------



## Kfchicken (Sep 5, 2012)

FearlessNikki said:


> AJ literally has 9 wrestling moves if you don't count the restholds. The only moves AJ has done that Nikki hasn't is a spinning kick, wheel barrow roll up, and black widow. There's way more moves Nikki can do that AJ isn't physically capable of.


Really? Are your tying to be funny?



Gametoo said:


> You can't even spill her name right OP, can you?


No, I don't want people slipping.


----------



## FearlessNikki (Aug 27, 2014)

Kfchicken said:


> Really? Are your tying to be funny?


This isn't a made up statistic I pulled from out of nowhere or something I'm saying to hate her it's a fact. This is her moveset: Black Widow, Double Neckbreakers, Jumping Armbreaker, Spinning Heel Kick, Shining Wizard, Crossbody (running, corner, diving), Front Drop Kick, Tilt-a-Whirl Headscissors, Wheel Barrow Rollup. Plus basic things that every wrestler does like clotheslines and headlocks. Occasionally she'll do something like a Tornado DDT or Sliced Bread but that's maybe once every 6 months. There's at least twice as many moves Nikki does that AJ couldn't physically do and that's just moves involving lifting.


----------



## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

Nikki's title reign has been disastrous, but for once I am not going to blast her for this because I do not feel this is really in any way her fault; cause it's bookings fault for not booking her like a credible heel champion really.


----------



## ManiacMichaelMyers (Oct 23, 2009)

Nikki probably elevated the title actually. 
It seems more important with her holding it. 
Probably because she's smokin hot and looks good with it, kinda like when Maryse held it.


----------



## Kfchicken (Sep 5, 2012)

FearlessNikki said:


> This isn't a made up statistic I pulled from out of nowhere or something I'm saying to hate her it's a fact. This is her moveset: Black Widow, Double Neckbreakers, Jumping Armbreaker, Spinning Heel Kick, Shining Wizard, Crossbody (running, corner, diving), Front Drop Kick, Tilt-a-Whirl Headscissors, Wheel Barrow Rollup. Plus basic things that every wrestler does like clotheslines and headlocks. Occasionally she'll do something like a Tornado DDT or Sliced Bread but that's maybe once every 6 months. There's at least twice as many moves Nikki does that AJ couldn't physically do and that's just moves involving lifting.



The only one i can think of is the torture rack


But in all honesty, this is wwe and they have to wrestle a specific style. As for nicki, I have never seen her do an applaudable move and when she executes them, they lack pace and flow. You can see her eyes meet with the opponent before she does a move and she count the steps she takes. AJ doesn't have this problem at all. AJ is better thn nicki. AJ took her 1 year to become a main player not just in divas, but in all of WWE whole Nicki just started to get noticed after 8 years. It's not that ha R for people to assume that her relationship with Crna may have effected this sudden "status rise"

not a fan of AJ either, but it's the Truth


----------



## Aerialist (Apr 9, 2014)

Agree. It's bad enough that Divas matches barely get promoted but to be absent on the go-home show makes matters even worse.


----------



## CM Punk Is A God (Jan 6, 2013)

Nikki is still a better champion then what's her face.


----------



## xerxesXXI (May 15, 2006)

Does anyone even give a fuck about the divas division? Sometimes I wonder why they don't build up a female bad ass like rousey and watch the money come in


----------



## 666_The_Game_666 (Nov 18, 2009)

xerxesXXI said:


> Does anyone even give a fuck about the divas division? Sometimes I wonder why they don't build up a female bad ass like rousey and watch the money come in



Have you seen the amount of diva threads within the last week. It's clear people have an interest in it. 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

xerxesXXI said:


> Does anyone even give a fuck about the divas division? Sometimes I wonder why they don't build up a female bad ass like rousey and watch the money come in


Considering the amount of Divas threads that pop up and how much traffic they get (regularly going for 20+ pages), I think it's safe to say that plenty are interested in it. :aj3


----------



## nicfanz87 (Jun 28, 2014)

Kfchicken said:


> The only one i can think of is the torture rack
> 
> 
> But in all honesty, this is wwe and they have to wrestle a specific style. As for nicki, I have never seen her do an applaudable move and when she executes them, *they lack pace and flow*. You can see her eyes meet with the opponent before she does a move and she count the steps she takes. AJ doesn't have this problem at all. AJ is better thn nicki. AJ took her 1 year to become a main player not just in divas, but in all of WWE whole Nicki just started to get noticed after 8 years. It's not that ha R for people to assume that her relationship with Crna may have effected this sudden "status rise"
> ...


That's my biggest problem with Nicki. She has no flow. Her matches would be punching or kicking her opponent. Pause and looks and them. Then do her finisher. Horrible flow/pace.


----------



## nicfanz87 (Jun 28, 2014)

xerxesXXI said:


> Does anyone even give a fuck about the divas division? Sometimes I wonder why they don't build up a female bad ass like rousey and watch the money come in


People don't want a female Brock Lesnar. They like Barbie doll divas.


----------



## CM Punk Is A God (Jan 6, 2013)

666_The_Game_666 said:


> Have you seen the amount of diva threads within the last week. It's clear people have an interest in it.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


It's amazing people have an interest in the divas division, WWE doesn't have to do shit with them and they'll still get people intrigued.


----------



## nicfanz87 (Jun 28, 2014)

CM Punk Is A God said:


> It's amazing people have an interest in the divas division, WWE doesn't have to do shit with them and they'll still get people intrigued.


What's amazing is that Eva Marie have marks and a lot of them. They actually said she's better than Randy Orton. :lol I know I will get negged by an EM fan but whatever.


----------



## 666_The_Game_666 (Nov 18, 2009)

nicfanz87 said:


> What's amazing is that Eva Marie have marks and a lot of them. They actually said she's better than Randy Orton. :lol I know I will get negged by an EM fan but whatever.



They actually said she's better than Orton. The fuck is up with these people 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

holy hell can we close this thread already? LOLS

I will admit one thing, all the sudden that divas division now is a hot topic of interest.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

Typical IWC mentality; it has to be the Bellas fault. Anyone who's paid any attention the Divas over the past 2 years knows they bend over backwards for AJ Lee and book the rest of the division like shit. Its all to do with Vince wanting AJ to alwayt look good and not giving a shot about the rest of them.


----------



## Oui Monsieur-hehe (Dec 9, 2014)

We can't possibly blame Nikki for any sort of 'Diva's Division Downfall' as it was WWE's decision to place the strap on her. Let's cut the girl some slack and give her a cheer for trying! XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX :clap


----------



## Karma101 (Sep 7, 2012)

A Maryse Evamas said:


> Typical IWC mentality; it has to be the Bellas fault. Anyone who's paid any attention the Divas over the past 2 years knows they bend over backwards for AJ Lee and book the rest of the division like shit. Its all to do with Vince wanting AJ to alwayt look good and not giving a shot about the rest of them.


I keep seeing people say this, yet the Bellas just had their shot. Didn't they close 2 RAWs? They shat the bed if you remember correctly. Meanwhile, AJ and Paige had the shittiest booked feud possible during that time.


----------



## 666_The_Game_666 (Nov 18, 2009)

Karma101 said:


> I keep seeing people say this, yet the Bellas just had their shot. Didn't they close 2 RAWs? They shat the bed if you remember correctly. Meanwhile, AJ and Paige had the shittiest booked feud possible during that time.


When did they close out 2 RAWs. My memory of what closes out RAW in 2014 is shitty and well could you blame me.


----------



## Karma101 (Sep 7, 2012)

666_The_Game_666 said:


> When did they close out 2 RAWs. My memory of what closes out RAW in 2014 is shitty and well could you blame me.


I'm pretty sure they did close 2 raws. One of them was a contract signing i think. All I can remember is that they were laughably bad though tbh.


----------



## Ghost of Wrestling (Jul 28, 2012)

Karma101 said:


> I'm pretty sure they did close 2 raws. One of them was a contract signing i think. All I can remember is that they were laughably bad though tbh.


The Raw closing with the contract signing was not that bad, but it was all thanks to Triple H and Stephanie. Stephanie's Pedigree on the Bella even make some fans do the "YES" Chant. Lmao


----------



## Impeccable Sin (Aug 28, 2013)

LilGeek said:


> When people say Nikki bella cant wrestle, that gets me sooo mad, when they know damn well she can. Shes the only diva on the roster that can do every ability.


What takes any special ability in those moves?



Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Nikki does need thicker skin to be playing a heel but I'm sure it's gotta be frustrating that AJ gets baby face pops for heel shoots on the Bellas and they never get a chance to respond.


You're treating the heel/face dynamic as if it was the 80s. Besides, Nikki did get a chance to respond & sucked.



RCSheppy said:


> What does Aj do?

















































nicfanz87 said:


> What's amazing is that Eva Marie have marks and a lot of them. They actually said she's better than Randy Orton. :lol I know I will get negged by an EM fan but whatever.


----------



## darkguy (Jan 2, 2006)

They edited the promo...she still gets punished.
Don't blame her.
They even had her do it on smackdown to test how she would do.
It's basically NXT V2.0.

Nikki has the potential to be a hated WWE Diva. A Miz of the Divas division basically. Who is that good for? The next big diva who will take the strap from her because they will actually get cheered for winning the match just to get Nikki out of our TVs. 

The problem is WWE just can't build divas for crap. We assume it should be Paige who will transition into more of a face role with build up. Could give Emma a shot, but WWE seems to not care for that route. So it'll be an NXT diva. Here's hoping they don't have the NXT Diva on day 1 of their WWE roster days like Paige did.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

Randumo24 said:


> What takes any special ability in those moves?
> 
> 
> 
> You're treating the heel/face dynamic as if it was the 80s. Besides, Nikki did get a chance to respond & sucked.


LOL, talks about how it doesn't take any special talent to do what Nikki does, then to make AJ look good shows gifs of her doing basic running strikes and hurricanrana/headscissors moves that every Diva in the last decade has done.

Nikki Bella hate is so ridiculoous, people just hate her because she's a Bella, simple as that. Acting like Nikki sucks and that AJ is some super godlike talent is ridiculous.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

LOLS.


----------



## roberta (Sep 4, 2006)

You can say you dislike Nikki Bella but you can't say she can't wrestle, it's untrue


----------



## Oakue (Jul 16, 2012)

LilGeek said:


> When people say Nikki bella cant wrestle, that gets me sooo mad, when they know damn well she can. Shes the only diva on the roster that can do every ability.


Is this a new thing now? We post Nikki Bella gifs in every thread that mentions her to "prove" how good of a wrestler she is? Or are you the same person who does this, essentially every day, on multiple accounts?


----------



## NeyNey (Sep 26, 2012)

The thing that makes me kinda sad is to watch Nikki in the ring, putting on awesome moves, the pride in her eyes - and nobody responding to it just for the sake of it.
Smarks would jump on her bandwaggon within seconds if she would admit to watch DBZ and play MGS.


----------



## WM17 (May 19, 2014)

NeyNey said:


> The thing that makes me kinda sad is to watch Nikki in the ring, putting on awesome moves, the pride in her eyes - and nobody responding to it just for the sake of it.
> Smarks would jump on her bandwaggon within seconds if she would admit to watch DBZ and play MGS.


:clap


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

A Maryse Evamas said:


> LOL, talks about how it doesn't take any special talent to do what Nikki does, then to make AJ look good shows gifs of her doing basic running strikes and hurricanrana/headscissors moves that every Diva in the last decade has done.


There literally hasn't been a single diva in the past 30 years that has done a hurricanrana coming off of the ring apron, not to mention that's far from a basic move and is actually very difficult to pull off.



A Maryse Evamas said:


> Nikki Bella hate is so ridiculoous, people just hate her because she's a Bella, simple as that.


That's one of the worst explanations I've ever heard regarding why people hate Nikki. No one "hates" her because of her fucking last name. 



A Maryse Evamas said:


> Acting like Nikki sucks and that AJ is some super godlike talent is ridiculous.


What's ridiculous here is that you're trying to put words in other people's mouths and attempt to explain why they hate a certain wrestler (especially when that clearly isn't the case) in an attempt to prove your point. It isn't going to work out the way you want it to if you go that route.

Look, Nikki has improved. There's no denying it. But she's still got a long way to go. Aj has already proven more than enough times that she's more capable than Nikki is of putting on good matches, carrying segments by herself and putting on a good promo. It's not blind markdom and it's not bias, it's putting things into perspective and coming out with a logical conclusion.



NeyNey said:


> The thing that makes me kinda sad is to watch Nikki in the ring, putting on awesome moves, the pride in her eyes - and nobody responding to it just for the sake of it.
> *Smarks would jump on her bandwaggon within seconds if she would admit to watch DBZ and play MGS.*


:ben3 I'm assuming that you're trolling, correct? 

And I can't speak for everyone else, but I personally could give two shits how fancy the moves Nikki does in the ring are. It's going to take a lot more than that to impress me regarding her in ring work.


----------



## LilGeek (Nov 14, 2014)

NeyNey said:


> The thing that makes me kinda sad is to watch Nikki in the ring, putting on awesome moves, the pride in her eyes - and nobody responding to it just for the sake of it.
> Smarks would jump on her bandwaggon within seconds if she would admit to watch DBZ and play MGS.












Keep preachin' higher like kaitlyns theme


----------



## LilGeek (Nov 14, 2014)

Randumo24 said:


>


 Aj hasn't done a lot of those moves she showcased in NXT and FCW


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

TheGodsofChristmas said:


> There literally hasn't been a single diva in the past 30 years that has done a hurricanrana coming off of the ring apron, *not to mention that's far from a basic move and is actually very difficult to pull off*.


it's actually not. You tried though. The apron is a level place for her to do that. The top rope isn't. The turnbuckles are the hardest places to pull that move off. 



> That's one of the worst explanations I've ever heard regarding why people hate Nikki. No one "hates" her because of her fucking last name.


They hated her because she was written as a ditzy Bella. Arm candy, side chick. And they never pushed the girl till 2014. Which is why she's been rising in popularity ever since. And to correct you, fans that attend the events don't hate her, internet smarks do. The sole reason is because she's a different personality no one has ever seen. 



> What's ridiculous here is that you're trying to put words in other people's mouths and attempt to explain why they hate a certain wrestler (especially when that clearly isn't the case) in an attempt to prove your point. It isn't going to work out the way you want it to if you go that route.
> 
> 
> Look, Nikki has improved. There's no denying it. But she's still got a long way to go. Aj has already proven more than enough times that she's more capable than Nikki is of putting on good matches, carrying segments by herself and putting on a good promo. It's not blind markdom and it's not bias, it's putting things into perspective and coming out with a logical conclusion.


Nikki's never gotten the opportunity to prove herself. She's been making news in 2014, the first time she actually got a chance to break from an anchor gimmick of just being a twin.



> And I can't speak for everyone else, but I personally could give two shits how fancy the moves Nikki does in the ring are. It's going to take a lot more than that to impress me regarding her in ring work.


Which is proving everyone else's point of how she gets unwarranted hate for her in ring when she is actually one of the better performers in the divas division.


----------



## Leonardo Spanky (May 1, 2014)

TheGodsofChristmas said:


> There literally hasn't been a single diva in the past 30 years that has done a hurricanrana coming off of the ring apron, not to mention that's far from a basic move and is actually very difficult to pull off.












And technically it's a 'frankensteiner'. Same goes to the move in the AJ gif.

In b4 Randumo24 with "AJ's was better and didn't use her hands".


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

I'm sorry but my past wrestling background can't let this go. 

The frankensteiner and huracanrana are two different things. 

*The Frankensteiner* is a move generated by your legs to take down the opponent by catching their head or neck. Scott Steiner named it the Frankensteiner. 

*The Huracanrana* (and I want you to listen so that you never make that mistake ever again) this is also a move generated by your legs. 
The Hurancan - is named after luchador Daniel García Arteaga, who was known in the ring as Hurancan Ramirez, the "rana" is the name of the pin that it ends with. Case in point, a Huracanrana an athletic leg takedown that always ends with a pin.


----------



## VIPER (Nov 29, 2014)

Randumo24 said:


> What takes any special ability in those moves?
> 
> 
> 
> You're treating the heel/face dynamic as if it was the 80s. Besides, Nikki did get a chance to respond & sucked.



Did she get pushed by a ghost or....? kay I cannot with this chick.


----------



## islesfan13 (May 8, 2014)

Leonardo Spanky said:


> And technically it's a 'frankensteiner'. Same goes to the move in the AJ gif.


I just want to know how he came up with the idea that no women has attempted it in 30 years. Its honestly not that rare except for the wwe that waters down moves a bit.


----------



## Impeccable Sin (Aug 28, 2013)

NeyNey said:


> The thing that makes me kinda sad is to watch Nikki in the ring, putting on awesome moves, the pride in her eyes - and nobody responding to it just for the sake of it.
> Smarks would jump on her bandwaggon within seconds if she would admit to watch DBZ and play MGS.


She doesn't get the same reactions because the moves she does become spots instead of flowing through the match to tell a story. 



A Maryse Evamas said:


> LOL, talks about how it doesn't take any special talent to do what Nikki does, then to make AJ look good shows gifs of her doing basic running strikes and hurricanrana/headscissors moves that every Diva in the last decade has done.
> 
> Nikki Bella hate is so ridiculous, people just hate her because she's a Bella, simple as that. Acting like Nikki sucks and that AJ is some super godlike talent is ridiculous.


The hate you display is ridiculous. Idc what you want to believe, but those moves AJ did are far more difficult moves to do. Nikki has never shown the ability to do those kinds of high flying moves.



TheGodsofChristmas said:


> There literally hasn't been a single diva in the past 30 years that has done a hurricanrana coming off of the ring apron, not to mention that's far from a basic move and is actually very difficult to pull off.





Leonardo Spanky said:


> And technically it's a 'frankensteiner'. Same goes to the move in the AJ gif.
> 
> In b4 Randumo24 with "AJ's was better and didn't use her hands".


I was about to say that Paige did that move before. Thanks for saving me the trouble of looking for that gif lol. Of course AJ's was better because she is a natural high flyer & Paige isn't. Not saying Paige's was bad, but AJ's timing and execution were better. You know, you can admit that AJ does something better than Paige.


----------



## Leonardo Spanky (May 1, 2014)

Randumo24 said:


> I was about to say that Paige did that move before. Thanks for saving me the trouble of looking for that gif lol. Of course AJ's was better because she is a natural high flyer & Paige isn't. Not saying Paige's was bad, but AJ's timing and execution were better. You know, you can admit that AJ does something better than Paige.


:HA

Did I say Paige's was better? We just know how you are and would pounce on that gif right away to say AJ's was better, which seems to be your sole purpose on this forum.

Doesn't matter anyway. The point was to disprove that statement I quoted and to clarify that it's a frankensteiner not a hurricanrana. :cool2


----------



## Impeccable Sin (Aug 28, 2013)

Leonardo Spanky said:


> :HA
> 
> Did I say Paige's was better? We just know how you are and would pounce on that gif right away to say AJ's was better, which seems to be your sole purpose on this forum.
> 
> Doesn't matter anyway. The point was to disprove that statement I quoted and to clarify that it's a frankensteiner not a hurricanrana. :cool2



















So then, who's was better?


----------



## Leonardo Spanky (May 1, 2014)

Randumo24 said:


> So then, who's was better?


:heston

Thanks for proving my point.


----------



## Impeccable Sin (Aug 28, 2013)

Leonardo Spanky said:


> :heston
> 
> Thanks for proving my point.


Apparently you are incapable of answering a simple question. Why can't you just answer my question of which was better?

Kind of ironic that you proved my point about you in that post. You can't even answer the question because you can't seem to admit AJ is better than Paige at something. Obviously you know AJ's was better, otherwise you would have just done like usual & say whatever Paige did was better.


----------



## Leonardo Spanky (May 1, 2014)

Leonardo Spanky said:


> *Did I say Paige's was better?* We just know how you are and would pounce on that gif right away to say AJ's was better, which seems to be your sole purpose on this forum.


Does anyone besides AJ's #1 fan need clarification or was this enough?


----------



## Impeccable Sin (Aug 28, 2013)

Leonardo Spanky said:


> Does anyone besides AJ's #1 fan need clarification or was this enough?












Wow, you're still dodging a simple question. The answer to the question is either Paige or AJ. You're really making yourself look bad by continually refusing to answer a question with only two options.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Leonardo Spanky said:


> And technically it's a 'frankensteiner'. Same goes to the move in the AJ gif.
> 
> In b4 Randumo24 with "AJ's was better and didn't use her hands".


:trips7 two posts later and I'm proven wrong on the spot. Curse my tendencies to not watch Main Event.



K4L318 said:


> it's actually not. You tried though. The apron is a level place for her to do that. The top rope isn't. The turnbuckles are the hardest places to pull that move off.


It actually is. Due to the hardness of the apron, it makes it more difficult to get a good enough jump to successfully land fully enough on the person's arms, not to mention the angle you're jumping down at can make it harder to properly catch the person. Also, since you're out on the floor with the barricade near you, you have less room to properly flip yourself and sell the move. 

It's not the hardest thing to pull off in pro wrestling but it's definitely difficult. 



K4L318 said:


> They hated her because she was written as a ditzy Bella.


...no they didn't. They hated her because she was horrible. 



K4L318 said:


> Arm candy, side chick.


Um, no.



K4L318 said:


> And they never pushed the girl till 2014. Which is why she's been rising in popularity ever since.


So we're just gonna ignore the part where she won the divas title in 2012? Okay then. 



K4L318 said:


> And to correct you, fans that attend the events don't hate her, internet smarks do.


If that's the case then she must be a terrible heel then. Usually heels make the casuals hate her and the smarks like her. 



K4L318 said:


> The sole reason is because she's a different personality no one has ever seen.


No, it isn't. You can't just make up obvious bullshit like this and expect us to believe it. These aren't casuals that we're talking about. If you're good in the ring and can put on a good promo, smarks for the most part are going to like you unless you're John Cena. Right now Nikki is still a very bad mic worker, and part of that is because of her voice, which is fine. She can pull off some good moves in the ring, but she still doesn't know how to properly work a match. 



K4L318 said:


> Nikki's never gotten the opportunity to prove herself. She's been making news in 2014, the first time she actually got a chance to break from an anchor gimmick of just being a twin.


Anyone who has been watching her since her and brie debuted knows this is bullshit. Yes, Brie was definitely given more chances, but don't act like Nikki was never given the chance to shine. 



K4L318 said:


> *Which is proving everyone else's point* of how she gets unwarranted hate for her in ring when she is actually one of the better performers in the divas division.


No, it isn't. We are seeing her now as she is. She pulls off a few good moves and that's it. She's just another Alicia Fox. Her weaknesses as an in ring performer and mic worker are still showing. Just because you can pull off a few good moves in no way makes you one of the better performers in the divas division. It doesn't work like that. Right now, Natalya, Aj Lee, Paige, Emma, Naomi, Summer Rae (well, NXT Summer Rae anyways) Alicia Fox, and MAYBE Layla are all still better in ring performers than Nikki. Hell her own sister is better than her in the ring.


----------



## JBLoser (Jun 12, 2005)

K4L318 said:


> And to correct you, fans that attend the events don't hate her, internet smarks do. The sole reason is because she's a different personality no one has ever seen.


:lmao :lmao :lmao

Holy hyperbole, Batman. A personality NO ONE has ever seen before?


----------



## kendoo (Oct 23, 2012)

Nicki Bella deserves a title run and she can actually play a decent heel.


----------



## FearlessNikki (Aug 27, 2014)

Hey Leonardo, don't bother answering Randumo. He does the exact the same thing. When he knows he can't counter a point he'll either ignore it or stop replying to make it seem like he never saw it even though you can see his name on the bottom. That's the funniest part is how people like him and Kabraxle always avoid answering or responding to points that they can't counter yet they expect everyone to have to answer them :ti

That plus he steals all his argument techniques from people that own him. The whole "why can't you answer the question" is from Seto Kaiba, which btw Randumo never answered any of his questions. His whole "fact" and "tell me how I'm wrong" thing he got from some guy on DivaDirt that used to own him all the time, and btw never answered that guys responses either. It's pretty pathetic.


----------



## Chris22 (Jan 7, 2010)

Nikki Bella's second reign is a breath of fresh air to me, the belt had been on AJ since like June 2013 then hot shotted onto Paige when she wasn't even over then back and forth between them. The whole debacle was boring as shit that WWE actually had to insert Nikki into the NOC match just to try and keep the interest. I've never liked AJ but my favourite match in that feud was SummerSlam.They done the feud, it didn't work but they still dragged it out. 
I'm hoping Nikki keeps the title for a long time, I actually wouldn't mind her holding it until WrestleMania. Nikki is so underrated that it's not even funny, I'm loving that she's gotten this chance.


----------



## Ghost of Wrestling (Jul 28, 2012)

FearlessNikki & K4L318 is the same person,right?


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

FearlessNikki said:


> *Hey Leonardo, don't bother answering Randumo. He does the exact the same thing. When he knows he can't counter a point he'll either ignore it or stop replying to make it seem like he never saw it even though you can see his name on the bottom.* That's the funniest part is how people like him and Kabraxle always avoid answering or responding to points that they can't counter yet they expect everyone to have to answer them :ti


:ben3 

You did the exact same thing with me during that joke of a thread you made where you tried to argue that Nikki was a better in ring performer than Aj Lee. ut


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer (May 31, 2011)




----------



## GGGGGGGG_G_UNIT (Jul 28, 2014)

No she didn't the title was already dead long before she held it, with the said though, Giving the belt to a bella screams 

THIS IS NOT IMPORTANT, WE DON'T TAKE THIS BELT SERIOUSLY, WE NEED TO HAVE A DIVSION SO WE DONT GET CALLED SEXIST BUT WE DONT WANT THE DIVISION SO WE'LL HIRE MODELS WHO CANT WRESTLE SO NOBDOY TAKES IT SERIOUSLY !!! IT'S JUST AS GOOD AS THE DIVISION NOT EXISTING RIGHT !? 

That's what wwe are screaming at me everytime the divas are on t.v, the survivor series tag match was a new low though, NOTICABLE botches in a ppv NOTICABLE, The fact their wasn't outrage from fans and wwe themselves tells me everything I need to know about the division NOBODY and I mean Nobody gives a fuck about the divas division the only people who can justify supporting this shit are total divas fans, 

I don't even know what else can be said ? that survivor series match was an insult to pro wrestling the world over, fpalm 

it's beyond comprehension how people don't consider the divas division sexist as fuck, i'll admit I have sexist traits so the fact this shit even upsets me speaks volumes !!! 

i'm somewhat sexist and this annoys me, so you can only imagine how confused I am when I see woman supporting the bellas, have they just given up ? even if that was the case, why support it ? it's offensive too young girls the world over who dream of being a PRO WRESTLER not a model not an object a wrestler, who puts on great matches ! and trains from a young age to make her dreams come true ! wwe are shitting all over those girls and I think that's a disgrace !

it's just a tease having half a division like they do now, better of having nothing, atleast these girls can spend their years practicing in ballet or something that they'll get recognition and respect for

and i'll say it again, i'm somewhat sexist and I feel this way, what does that say about everyone else involved in this division ?

EDIT: just so we're clear, it's NOT the models fault they were hired, I'm not mad at them i'm mad at the system,


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

Ghost of Wrestling said:


> FearlessNikki & K4L318 is the same person,right?


pretty sure we're not. 

Although if that's how you defend wrestling topics you won't last here.


----------



## Londrick (Feb 2, 2013)

FearlessNikki said:


> Hey Leonardo, don't bother answering Randumo. He does the exact the same thing. When he knows he can't counter a point he'll either ignore it or stop replying to make it seem like he never saw it even though you can see his name on the bottom. That's the funniest part is how people like him and Kabraxle always avoid answering or responding to points that they can't counter yet they expect everyone to have to answer them :ti
> 
> That plus he steals all his argument techniques from people that own him. The whole "why can't you answer the question" is from Seto Kaiba, which btw Randumo never answered any of his questions. His whole "fact" and "tell me how I'm wrong" thing he got from some guy on DivaDirt that used to own him all the time, and btw never answered that guys responses either. It's pretty pathetic.


Surprised he hasn't been banned yet for his continuous trolling.


----------



## The Lion Tamer (Aug 17, 2014)

The divisions been dead ever since Mickie, Trish and Lita left


----------



## Yes Era (Dec 8, 2013)

kendoo said:


> Nicki Bella deserves a title run and she can actually play a decent heel.


Deserve? Why? For bad promos? For looking a certain way compared to everyone else? Is that it? She's not bad in the ring but she's no stand out and definitely shouldn't be getting a run over Naomi or Natayla.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

FearlessNikki said:


> Hey Leonardo, don't bother answering Randumo. He does the exact the same thing. When he knows he can't counter a point he'll either ignore it or stop replying to make it seem like he never saw it even though you can see his name on the bottom. That's the funniest part is how people like him and Kabraxle always avoid answering or responding to points that they can't counter yet they expect everyone to have to answer them :ti
> 
> That plus he steals all his argument techniques from people that own him. The whole "why can't you answer the question" is from Seto Kaiba, which btw Randumo never answered any of his questions. His whole "fact" and "tell me how I'm wrong" thing he got from some guy on DivaDirt that used to own him all the time, and btw never answered that guys responses either. It's pretty pathetic.


Funny, considering that me and others have actually dealt with the points time and time again over the ye... O why do I bother. The Bella brigade has more than proven it's futile to even try anymore. I mean, failure after failure and yet still we have to hear from the same 5 posters how awesome these two jokes are....


----------



## FearlessNikki (Aug 27, 2014)

TheGodsofChristmas said:


> :ben3
> 
> You did the exact same thing with me during that joke of a thread you made where you tried to argue that Nikki was a better in ring performer than Aj Lee. ut


I know for a fact no one's ever countered that argument with anything other than an opinion before so refresh my memory on what your ground breaking argument was. Was it one of those condescending ones that just shrugged off every argument with "LOL I'm right you're wrong"? Or one of the ones that ignored the actual argument and just used a bunch of run around arguments like "Well AJ had a 13 minute match that was better than all The Bellas 5 minute matches"? Or one that just responded with "No everything they do sucks and your stupid if you think otherwise"?



Kabraxal said:


> Funny, considering that me and others have actually dealt with the points time and time again over the ye... O why do I bother. The Bella brigade has more than proven it's futile to even try anymore. I mean, failure after failure and yet still we have to hear from the same 5 posters how awesome these two jokes are....


No you didn't. I asked you at least 5 times to respond to just ONE point I made but instead you kept dancing around it without responding to what the original argument actually was. And just because you give your OPINION on something doesn't mean you've "countered" anything. In fact right now, list everything you think is wrong with The Bellas. Your reasons will include words like worse, better, boring, bad, suck, unlikeable, annoying, slutty, and everything else listed below. All of which are words and statements used to express OPINIONS. The reason you have to give the same "counters" time after time is because they're not really counters they're just viewpoints that not everyone in the world is going to agree with so no matter how many times you repeat them they're not going to be more valid.


----------



## Impeccable Sin (Aug 28, 2013)

Christmas Eva Marie said:


> Surprised he hasn't been banned yet for his continuous trolling.


It's not trolling asking a serious wrestling question. If anyone is to blame, it's Leonardo for not being able to answer a simple question. The real troll here is you for telling anyone that Eva Marie is good at anything other than modeling.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

FearlessNikki said:


> I know for a fact no one's ever countered that argument with anything other than an opinion before so refresh my memory on what your ground breaking argument was. Was it one of those condescending ones that just shrugged off every argument with *"LOL I'm right you're wrong"? Or one of the ones that ignored the actual argument and just used a bunch of run around arguments like "Well AJ had a 13 minute match that was better than all The Bellas 5 minute matches"? Or one that just responded with "No everything they do sucks and your stupid if you think otherwise"*?


Yep. That's exactly the knowledge I see being used around here. There are a lot poser experts. I wish they could make a valid point but they never have. Probably never will.



> No you didn't. I asked you at least 5 times to respond to just ONE point I made but instead you kept dancing around it without responding to what the original argument actually was. And just because you give your OPINION on something doesn't mean you've "countered" anything. *In fact right now, list everything you think is wrong with The Bellas. Your reasons will include words like worse, better, boring, bad, suck, unlikeable, annoying, slutty, and everything else listed below. All of which are words and statements used to express OPINIONS.* The reason you have to give the same "counters" time after time is because they're not really counters they're just viewpoints that not everyone in the world is going to agree with so no matter how many times you repeat them they're not going to be more valid.


LOLS right to the point. :clap


----------



## Impeccable Sin (Aug 28, 2013)

K4L318 said:


> Yep. That's exactly the knowledge I see being used around here. There are a lot poser experts. I wish they could make a valid point but they never have. Probably never will.
> 
> LOLS right to the point. :clap



Just to let you know, almost everyone thinks of you as a troll. You agreeing with someone's point doesn't help them at all.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

Randumo24 said:


> Just to let you know, almost everyone thinks of you as a troll. You agreeing with someone's point doesn't help them at all.


I'm not here to care who thinks I'm a troll. I'm here to express wrestling opinion. Actual wrestling opinion. If you want to engage in posters shamming then do so. 

The fact here is there's a lot of favoritism and there's a lot of unwarranted criticism. The difference is when I post I make valid points and analysis. When others post they make opinions and insults. The definition of trolling is one who acts like prick because they can. I'm here to make wrestling opinions and give out wrestling knowledge because I actually did wrestle and it's not like people talk about it here.


----------



## Impeccable Sin (Aug 28, 2013)

K4L318 said:


> I'm not here to care who thinks I'm a troll. I'm here to express wrestling opinion. Actual wrestling opinion. If you want to engage in posters shamming then do so.
> 
> The fact here is there's a lot of favoritism and there's a lot of unwarranted criticism. The difference is when I post I make valid points and analysis. When others post they make opinions and insults. The definition of trolling is one who acts like prick because they can. I'm here to make wrestling opinions and give out wrestling knowledge because I actually did wrestle and it's not like people talk about it here.


I wasn't telling you that as an insult, I was just telling you the truth so that you knew. When you call someone's opinion logical, you make it look illogical by just agreeing whether it was or was not.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

Randumo24 said:


> I wasn't telling you that as an insult, I was just telling you the truth so that you knew. When you call someone's opinion logical, you make it look illogical by just agreeing whether it was or was not.


So why tell me everyone? I'll say it again. IDC, IDGAF what they say. I'm not here for their approval. When they make valid points I agree with them. When they don't IDC who you are I will challenge it and more than likely win that debate. I use the term logical to get people away from making opinions, the thing to do here is hide behind an opinion instead of explaining why your opinion is valid. I'm not the one hiding behind an opinion. I value every poster(s) post. Except for the ones that hide behind an opinion to look smart.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

FearlessNikki said:


> I know for a fact no one's ever countered that argument with anything other than an opinion before


At least 75% of the people in that thread responded with facts that debunked your terrible argument. 



FearlessNikki said:


> so refresh my memory on what your ground breaking argument was.


I'm not gonna go through the trouble of looking for the thread, mostly because I don't care enough. You don't have many posts, click on your name, view your posts, and look for the thread. It's all there.



FearlessNikki said:


> Was it one of those condescending ones that just shrugged off every argument with "LOL I'm right you're wrong"? Or one of the ones that ignored the actual argument and just used a bunch of run around arguments like "Well AJ had a 13 minute match that was better than all The Bellas 5 minute matches"? Or one that just responded with "No everything they do sucks and your stupid if you think otherwise"?


Actually it was none of these. It was a person (that person being me of course) using what he knows about Pro Wrestling and took advantage of that to explain why Nikki isn't anything good like you are trying to make her out to be. That person who made the video you posted has no basic understanding of pro wrestling and neither do you. I suggest you do some research so you don't continue to embarrass yourself. 



FearlessNikki said:


> No you didn't. I asked you at least 5 times to respond to just ONE point I made but instead you kept dancing around it without responding to what the original argument actually was. And just because you give your OPINION on something doesn't mean you've "countered" anything. In fact right now, list everything you think is wrong with The Bellas. Your reasons will include words like worse, better, boring, bad, suck, unlikeable, annoying, slutty, and everything else listed below. All of which are words and statements used to express OPINIONS. The reason you have to give the same "counters" time after time is because they're not really counters they're just viewpoints that not everyone in the world is going to agree with so no matter how many times you repeat them they're not going to be more valid.


You can't just sit there and criticize someone for doing something when you do the exact same thing. It doesn't work like that. 



Randumo24 said:


> It's not trolling asking a serious wrestling question. If anyone is to blame, it's Leonardo for not being able to answer a simple question. The real troll here is you for telling anyone that Eva Marie is good at anything other than modeling.


If you can't figure out what he's doing then I would just stop now. Leonardo was playing the hell out of you and you took the bait. 



K4L318 said:


> Yep. That's exactly the knowledge I see being used around here. There are a lot poser experts. I wish they could make a valid point but they never have. Probably never will.


:kobe because saying Nikki is hated due to her last name is such a valid point, right? Just stop, none of the things you've been saying have made any sense. If you don't think we've made any valid points, then it's only because you aren't smart enough to understand what they mean.


----------



## Impeccable Sin (Aug 28, 2013)

K4L318 said:


> So why tell me everyone? I'll say it again. IDC, IDGAF what they say. I'm not here for their approval. *When they make valid points I agree with them.* When they don't IDC who you are I will challenge it and more than likely win that debate. I use the term logical to get people away from making opinions, the thing to do here is hide behind an opinion instead of explaining why your opinion is valid. I'm not the one hiding behind an opinion. I value every poster(s) post. Except for the ones that hide behind an opinion to look smart.












You just agree with anyone who says positive things about your favorites & anything negative about AJ.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

Randumo24 said:


> You just agree with anyone who says positive things about your favorites & anything negative about AJ.


I never gave AJ props? I just don't overrate her or anybody. What's wrong in that? can you honestly tell me AJ had a good title run? can you honestly tell me her 2014 was good? 1/2 her feuds were sleepers. 

This is AJ in 2014

Cameron, rest, Natalya, rest, WM30, Paige, vacation, Paige, Nikki

3 months off, long rest periods to lengthen her title reign. No sell feuds, bury a division. That's good? Oh yeah misses countless house shows, doesn't promote the title or division anywhere. What type of divas champion was this? 





TheGodsofChristmas said:


> :kobe because saying Nikki is hated due to her last name is such a valid point, right? Just stop, none of the things you've been saying have made any sense. If you don't think we've made any valid points, then it's only because you aren't smart enough to understand what they mean.


No genius that's not what I said. I said she's hated dued to being just a Bella Twin (was hated and now is getting approval). Portrayed as a twin and nothing else in her past. Nothing to make her stand out or go on a singles run. You're trying to mix up what I said with what another poster posted. That original comment wasn't even made by me. Nice attempt to bring a nonsense debate.

Use more smileys maybe we'll pay attention to the nonsense in that post.

BTW I going to allow myself to be entertained here. 

What valid point have you, you reading this made about Nikki's wrestling? While you criticize it. PWI is putting her on, Jim Ross is putting her on (he doesn't even work here anymore), Dave Meltzer, 411Mania, WrestlingInc, HHH himself, he's why she's getting that push, her and Wyatt and Ambrose and Ziggler and Paige, that's to name a few. But here casual poster you I'm waiting for a valid point. In ring valid point. None of you can make it. None.


----------



## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

K4L318 said:


> No genius that's not what I said. I said she's hated dued to being just a Bella Twin (was hated and now is getting approval). Portrayed as a twin and nothing else in her past. Nothing to make her stand out or go on a singles run. You're trying to mix up what I said with what another poster posted. That original comment wasn't even made by me. Nice attempt to bring a nonsense debate.
> 
> Use more smileys maybe we'll pay attention to the nonsense in that post.


Look, Nikki is not hated due to just being a Bella Twin, neither girl are hated because of the fact there last name is Bella, I dislike them as many others do because they are absolutely terrible at wrestling, terrible on the mic, terrible physical and general verbal actors; completely and utterly terrible.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

HBK 3:16 said:


> *Look, Nikki is not hated due to just being a Bella Twin*, neither girl are hated because of the fact there last name is Bella, *I dislike them as many others do because they are absolutely terrible at wrestling*, terrible on the mic, terrible physical and general verbal actors; *completely and utterly terrible*.


without any valid point to back it up bro. This has been my point since I joined here.


----------



## StillReal2MeDammit (Aug 26, 2014)

In every aspect she is better than brie I hope she doesnt beat Nikki, I totally hated her until she started wrestling recently she has improved alot and is 10 times better on the mic than brie


----------



## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

K4L318 said:


> without any valid point to back it up bro. This has been my point since I joined here.


In terms of the acting and mic work you don't have to look any further then the Brie/Nikki feud of this year, week after week of cringeworthy promos that make you want to turn the TV off; the worst of all being "I wish you died in the womb" Springer segment of course. Other kinks including body mannerisms are just way off, and the fact that the two can not cut a promo without basically shrieking during the entirety of it; and the crowd responded to none of the garbage (and rightfully so).

As for wrestling, while yes both of them have indeed improved, they really can only execute basic moves correctly, anytime either attempts a more complicated move it always is insanely sloppy or uncoordinated, or it falls into a botch or near botch; I'd say Brie is a better all around wrestler while Nikki is a little bit better of a talker. But both are garbage at all of it pretty equally.


----------



## Impeccable Sin (Aug 28, 2013)

K4L318 said:


> I never gave AJ props? I just don't overrate her or anybody. What's wrong in that? can you honestly tell me AJ had a good title run? can you honestly tell me her 2014 was good? 1/2 her feuds were sleepers.
> 
> This is AJ in 2014
> 
> ...


Let's see, how about you find the last positive comment you made about AJ? 

As far as AJ this year, her "feud" with Cameron was just thrown together at the last second because of Naomi's injury. 

Nobody can have a really interesting feud with Natalya because she is a charisma vacuum. However, their Main Event match is considered one of the best WWE women's matches in history by the people who have seen it. 

The first Paige one was one match because AJ took some time off to move to a new city & get married. Considering she had the responsibility of being champion for nearly 300 days in a row, I don't view that as something bad to do at all. When she came back, Paige grew leaps & bounds during their feud. Paige is *MUCH* more over than prior to that feud. 

The feud with Nikki can't be very good due to terrible booking. Their only 1 on 1 match was only given enough time for the 10 second match. 

However, I am just done arguing with you AJ haters about your claims she buried the division. I don't remember anyone backing up any claims on how she buried the division.


----------



## Swissblade (May 18, 2014)

HBK 3:16 said:


> Look, Nikki is not hated due to just being a Bella Twin, neither girl are hated because of the fact there last name is Bella, I dislike them as many others do because they are absolutely terrible at wrestling, terrible on the mic, terrible physical and general verbal actors; completely and utterly terrible.


... and yet most of these apply to Paige (besides probably the wrestling one, but then again she has had quite a few "insanely sloppy or uncoordinated, or it falls into a botch or near botch" moments). Or are we just going to look over that?


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

HBK 3:16 said:


> In terms of the acting and mic work you don't have to look any further then the Brie/Nikki feud of this year, week after week of cringeworthy promos that make you want to turn the TV off; the worst of all being "I wish you died in the womb" Springer segment of course. Other kinks including *body mannerisms are just way off, and the fact that the two can not cut a promo without basically shrieking during the entirety of it; and the crowd responded to none of the garbage* (and rightfully so).


the crowd did respond to their promo and match at HIAC, already your point was defeated. Brie sucked on the mic. Nikki was good.



> As for wrestling, while yes both of them have indeed improved, *they really can only execute basic moves correctly, anytime either attempts a more complicated move it always is insanely sloppy or uncoordinated, or it falls into a botch or near botch; I'd say Brie is a better all around wrestler while Nikki is a little bit better of a talker*. But both are garbage at all of it pretty equally.


So when Brie and Nikki execute the suicide dive correctly that is basic but Sasha Banks does it and it's amazing? even though Sasha did it wrong? and the uncoordinated botches again, prove it! there's only one you can really blame on Brie and that's a complicated off the back clothesline she did off Nikki's back that no other diva on this roster has attempted. 

Yet we praise Naomi's wrestling botching all over the place, and you let AJ Lee get away with shit like this






but her coordination is great?


----------



## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

ShadowKiller said:


> ... and yet most of these apply to Paige (besides probably the wrestling one, but then again she has had quite a few "insanely sloppy or uncoordinated, or it falls into a botch or near botch" moments). Or are we just going to look over that?


Of course it occasionally applies to Paige as well, she's still very young and everyone in the business has those sorts of monents or has issues with things, even the best (which I have never said Paige was), the fact is however is that Nikki and Brie have way more of these moments in general; which is bad no matter how you look at it.

Also Paige's mic problems were more due the fact that she had never really gotten much time to work on promo work in the first place, but she's grown leaps and bounds as a mic worker from when she was called up.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

HBK 3:16 said:


> Of course it occasionally applies to Paige as well, she's still very young and everyone in the business has those sorts of monents or has issues with things, even the best (which I have never said Paige was), the fact is however is that Nikki and Brie have way more of these moments in general; which is bad no matter how you look at it.
> 
> Also Paige's mic problems were more due the fact that she had never really gotten much time to work on promo work in the first place, but she's grown leaps and bounds as a mic worker from when she was called up.


It applies to Paige really? the #1 PWI golden girl it applies to her? Nikki and Brie do it more yet can't point out those moments. 

She's grown leaps and bounds as a mic worker, are we serious now? this is like people saying Naomi has amazing promo skills.


----------



## Phaedra (Aug 15, 2014)

I dunno, Nikki has improved massively, she's sort of embraced the role of being the female hoss and that's cool with me. After NXT the other night I was left thinking that I would really enjoy seeing Charlotte take her through her paces ... but that won't happen on main roster tv, so I gave it up. I never liked Nikki, I just couldn't get into the Bellas but she's put in some solid match performances and I'm willing to give her the time of day now as a wrestler. 

The bi-polar promo certainly didn't help her, if they are left thinking twice about putting her on a mic on a live show, not good news.


----------



## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

K4L318 said:


> the crowd did respond to their promo and match at HIAC, already your point was defeated. Brie sucked on the mic. Nikki was good.






 




The aformative Springer segment and Hell in a Cell Match are above, please pray tell me where the crowd responded at all? in the Springer segment the crowd was goddamned dead during the promo; and only reacted in any sort of meaningful way when the segment broke out into a fight. Which was more probably because they were happy they didn't have to listen to them talk anymore.

The HIAC match on the other hand was atrocious, and the crowd was dead as fuck for it; you must have bad hearing if you think that's a good crowd.



K4L318 said:


> So when Brie and Nikki execute the suicide dive correctly that is basic but Sasha Banks does it and it's amazing? even though Sasha did it wrong? and the uncoordinated botches again, prove it! there's only one you can really blame on Brie and that's a complicated off the back clothesline she did off Nikki's back that no other diva on this roster has attempted.


I do not recall Brie nor Nikki ever attempting a suicide dive, so I can not comment on that, but as for there botches. here's one in particular I found amusing.










Brie is worse at it then Nikki is, who is just generally more sloppy then really botchy; but both of them definitely are not without fault.



K4L318 said:


> and you let AJ Lee get away with shit like this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


AJ's coordination the majority of the time is great, but even she isn't perfect; the fact that you seem to crucify AJ as a wrestler for one or two botches while you continually praise the Bellas makes me laugh however.


----------



## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

K4L318 said:


> It applies to Paige really? the #1 PWI golden girl it applies to her? Nikki and Brie do it more yet can't point out those moments.
> 
> She's grown leaps and bounds as a mic worker, are we serious now? this is like people saying Naomi has amazing promo skills.


It does because she isn't perfect, no one is.

Um yes, why wouldn't I be serious? I never said she was a _great_ mic worker now mind you; but she has indeed improved leaps and bounds since she got the call up to the main roster.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

HBK 3:16 said:


> The aformative Springer segment and Hell in a Cell Match are above, please pray tell me where the crowd responded at all? in the Springer segment the crowd was goddamned dead during the promo; and only reacted in any sort of meaningful way when the segment broke out into a fight. Which was more probably because they were happy they didn't have to listen to them talk anymore.
> 
> The HIAC match on the other hand was atrocious, and the crowd was dead as fuck for it; you must have bad hearing if you think that's a good crowd.



It was a good crowd, it chanted YES after Brie's suicide, the Springer segment wasn't their fault. It's the only real bad segment in their feud. 



> I do not recall Brie nor Nikki ever attempting a suicide dive, so I can not comment on that, but as for there botches. here's one in particular I found amusing.












And in the case you say Nikki got hurt, no she didn't, they had her play the leg injury to sell Brie's missile drop that followed this.



> Brie is worse at it then Nikki is, who is just generally more sloppy then really botchy; but both of them definitely are not without fault.


BTW that's the one I told you about.  That's IWC's crown and joy gif. Aside from a botched pin created by Eve's unbalance with Nikki. That's what you have for 8 fucking years.



> *AJ's coordination the majority of the time is great*, but *even she isn't perfect*; the fact that *you seem to crucify AJ as a wrestler for one or two botches while you continually praise the Bellas makes me laugh* however.


LOLS, I can post multiple shit on AJ in ring botching. Multiple. Just how she runs the ropes alone. 

You're a hypocrite on this.


----------



## Impeccable Sin (Aug 28, 2013)

K4L318 said:


> Yet we praise Naomi's wrestling botching all over the place, and you let AJ Lee get away with shit like this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry to break it to you, but that botch was on Natalya. She let go of the Sharpshooter too early. That made the time AJ tapped out during the process of her letting go. How can you blame AJ for that when Natalya was the one who just let go without seeing AJ tap, hearing AJ tap, or the bell ringing. I mean, who let's go of a finishing submission move before the bell is rung?


----------



## Leonardo Spanky (May 1, 2014)

fpalm this thread.


----------



## Impeccable Sin (Aug 28, 2013)

Leonardo Spanky said:


> fpalm this thread.


Yeah, it must have been hard work dodging a simple question for multiple pages.


----------



## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

K4L318 said:


> It was a good crowd, it chanted YES after Brie's suicide, the Springer segment wasn't their fault. It's the only real bad segment in their feud.


Of course they chanted yes, they mindlessly chant yes at most things. 



K4L318 said:


> And in the case you say Nikki got hurt, no she didn't, they had her play the leg injury to sell Brie's missile drop that followed this.


Okay, fine, I'll give you that one; through on the second one it looked liked Nikki was standing just a bit too far back on it. Which made it look worse then it should have.



K4L318 said:


> LOLS, I can post multiple shit on AJ in ring botching. Multiple. Just how she runs the ropes alone.
> 
> You're a hypocrite on this.


AJ runs the ropes fine, your just grasping at straws here if your criticizing her for that of all things and using it to say she's a bad wrestler.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

Randumo24 said:


> Sorry to break it to you, but that botch was on Natalya. She let go of the Sharpshooter too early. That made the time AJ tapped out during the process of her letting go. How can you blame AJ for that when Natalya was the one who just let go without seeing AJ tap, hearing AJ tap, or the bell ringing. I mean, who let's go of a finishing submission move before the bell is rung?


Natalya's fault also?










beautiful coordination here right?


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

HBK 3:16 said:


> Of course they chanted yes, *they mindlessly chant yes at most things*.


No they don't. And this was started off a move in their match.



> Okay, fine, I'll give you that one; through on the second one it looked liked Nikki was standing just a bit too far back on it. Which made it look worse then it should have.


bro she stood at the right spot, they hit it perfectly. She even sold a leg injury. 



> *AJ runs the ropes fine*, your just grasping at straws here if your criticizing her for that of all things and using it to say she's a bad wrestler.


you really believe that? No now you're getting defensive because somebody here can actually prove their point and the other one is really grasping at straws. You flip flopped on a few things, was proven wrong in your initial statement and now you need me to prove to you how she can't run ropes well?


----------



## FearlessNikki (Aug 27, 2014)

TheGodsofChristmas said:


> why Nikki *isn't anything good*


Exactly. See this statement? Explaining why something is or isn't good is an *OPINION*. An opinion does not counter facts. Let's take the facts in that video:

*Fact: The Bella Twins perform more moves than AJ:*Does that mean they're better wrestlers because they do more moves? No, but it's still a fact because it's a statistic that does exist. The opinion is where you say "But AJ does all her moves way better than The Bellas" or "Just because they do all those moves doesn't make them good" that's an opinion... but can you argue that they don't really do all those moves? No, because it's a fact.

*Fact: The Bella Twins follow the same match formula as AJ:* Watch a AJ Raw match in 2013 and watch any heel Bella match. What will you see? Targeting body parts, submissions, using the ropes, taunting, playing the crowd, same heel tactics. As a face, they get beat up most of the match, make their comeback, and follow some of the same match sequences in between. This is a fact that can be proven with side by side comparisons. The *opinion* is where you say "But AJ does it better"... does that mean that The Bellas don't really do all those things? No, because it's a fact.

*Fact: The Bellas have more versatile wrestling styles:* There's certain styles and certain moves AJ can't do because of her size. The Bellas aren't as restricted, for example, Nikki can wrestle both athletic and a power style. The opinion is where you say "But AJ wrestles her one style way better than The Bellas wrestle any of theirs". That doesn't counter the fact that The Bellas do wrestle more styles.

Just to name a few points. Those are facts, the only way you can counter them is by offering an *opinion* against them but if you can't say "No, those details don't really exist" that's because it's a fact therefore no matter what argument you give, it still doesn't prove that the fact is wrong because it still exists. That's where people need to learn to separate perception from reality, you may think that you "factually" countered all those points but in reality all you did was offer a different viewpoint. That's why people will disagree with you because not everyone sees it the same way that you do.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

FearlessNikki said:


> Exactly. See this statement? Explaining why something is or isn't good is an *OPINION*. An opinion does not counter facts. Let's take the facts in that video:
> 
> *Fact: The Bella Twins perform more moves than AJ:*Does that mean they're better wrestlers because they do more moves? No, but it's still a fact because it's a statistic that does exist. The opinion is where you say "But AJ does all her moves way better than The Bellas" or "Just because they do all those moves doesn't make them good" that's an opinion... but can you argue that they don't really do all those moves? No, because it's a fact.
> 
> ...


I can actually see why a poster said are we the same person. 

I thought I was the only one that was in a wrestling forum living by the motto perception vs reality and fact vs opinion and logical vs illogical thoughts. Kind of glad to hear that here though.


----------



## Bearodactyl (Apr 2, 2012)

Paige struggled overcoming her Indy habits (she even said so herself on the Jericho Podcast) and lack of live promo practice as well as the language/accent issues she obviously has to deal with, and continues to improve. 

The Bellas struggled overcoming the lack of individual personality they were allowed to put in (I'm guessing here, but it's not a far fetch I dare say) because of their "twins" gimmick, as well as their lack of in-ring background and time allowed to hone their skills both in ring and on the mic. However, they continue to improve, especially since they've been allowed to express more indiviuality. 

AJ has struggled with lack of well built up competition, and limitations to her in ring work due to her size but her drive to do well has always been clearly present. I give her a lot of credit because above anyone else she's been the one to just ooze dissatisfaction with the Status Quo of the Divas Division. However, I fear that the way it happened caused a rift between her and the women she should currently be working with, not against. Hey, maybe it's still real to me dammit. Who knows, that's just the way I feel it comes across, and I doubt the WWE is this subtle.. 

They all have to struggle with main roster booking and storytelling. It's the ONE thing that is limiting all of them the most right now. You see the leaps the women on the NXT roster are making, and you can't help but feel (at least I can't) that girls like Emma, Naomi, Summer and the aforementioned Divas would do the same if given that time, that opportunity. 

My point? I'm sure I had one.. 

Right! My point is that we're in here talking about "botches" this, "terrible" that, but:

-none of them are flawless

-none of them are completely to blame for it themselves as booking (time given in ring, story of feud, time given on mic) plays a big part in things, and all of them are focused on improvement

-dependant on what you're looking for in a diva it is completely understandable that opinions are split on who "the best" is. 

Let's just all rejoice in the fact that Sara Amato's training + the performance center as a whole is looking to strengthen the influx of capable divas in the future, the fact that NXT shows that there are at least SOME people that want more for the division, and just kinda hope that whoever is given the shot on the main roster next, they try and make the most of their reign/#1 contendership. The divas on the main roster having memorable matches, whoever is involved, will help in eventually turning the tide for the division. I know. I'm an optimist :waffle


----------



## Impeccable Sin (Aug 28, 2013)

K4L318 said:


> Natalya's fault also?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are you kidding me? That was Paige's fault. They were obviously supposed to go between the middle & bottom rope. Paige's trajectory was directly at the middle rope, making going through the ropes look bad. Do you just see a botch & assume it's AJ's fault?


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

Randumo24 said:


> Are you kidding me? That was Paige's fault. They were obviously supposed to go between the middle & bottom rope. Paige's trajectory was directly at the middle rope, making going through the ropes look bad. Do you just see a botch & assume it's AJ's fault?


You couldn't just leave the peace breaking post above finally end this thread bickering. You had to be the one. If you look at the gif, it's a clear tackle fall out move. AJ mistimed her pull up and Paige patted her ass to tell her to pull up, fall and let go. No I point out what I see.

I point that out because AJ botched it from the beginning, the fall for a girl like her is not suppose to be over the 2nd rope, it's suppose to be a tackle and fall under the 2nd rope. Like Alicia did to Paige in the Battle Royal. But that's none of my business.


----------



## tommo010 (Jul 15, 2008)

TJARONN CHERY'S EARLY PRESENT said:


> Paige struggled overcoming her Indy habits (she even said so herself on the Jericho Podcast) and lack of live promo practice as well as the language/accent issues she obviously has to deal with, and continues to improve.
> 
> The Bellas struggled overcoming the lack of individual personality they were allowed to put in (I'm guessing here, but it's not a far fetch I dare say) because of their "twins" gimmick, as well as their lack of in-ring background and time allowed to hone their skills both in ring and on the mic. However, they continue to improve, especially since they've been allowed to express more indiviuality.
> 
> ...


:clap well said Bearo level headed as always my friend. :waffle



K4L318 said:


> You couldn't just leave the peace breaking post above finally end this thread bickering. You had to be the one. If you look at the gif, it's a clear tackle fall out move. AJ mistimed her pull up and Paige patted her ass to tell her to pull up, fall and let go. No I point out what I see.
> 
> I point that out because AJ botched it from the beginning, the fall for a girl like her is not suppose to be over the 2nd rope, it's suppose to be a tackle and fall under the 2nd rope. Like Alicia did to Paige in the Battle Royal. But that's none of my business.


Glad I wasn't the only one that noticed why this botched but Paige also must shoulder the blame just as much as AJ but of course AJ is always flawless and couldn't ever make a mistake :jordan

I still don't know why people argue with Randumo anyway he's proven AJ mark that thinks she can do no wrong and every other Diva on the roster is substandard compared to her you cannot have a level headed discussion with him because he just pulls out the gif's makes one sided claims that are clearly aimed to favor AJ's strengths and not her weaknesses (See arguement with leonardo for this example) he's best ignored. He's manged to turn a thread about Nikki into a AJ thread too :cole Vintage Randumo


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

ShadowKiller said:


> ... and yet most of these apply to Paige (besides probably the wrestling one, but then again she has had quite a few "insanely sloppy or uncoordinated, or it falls into a botch or near botch" moments). Or are we just going to look over that?


Um, none of those apply to Paige. She's not a bad mic worker by any means, and she's not even 24 years old yet. For the most part she acts perfectly fine from an acting stand point. In fact she's one of the best in the divas division at not over acting in typical bullshit fashion. 



K4L318 said:


> You're trying to mix up what I said with what another poster posted.


You're right and wrong. I did get it mixed up with another person's comment. I DIDN'T intentionally do this, if that's what you're trying to imply.



K4L318 said:


> Use more smileys maybe we'll pay attention to the nonsense in that post.


I don't see a reason why I shouldn't. The smiley's have more logic than your posts do :fact



K4L318 said:


> What valid point have you, you reading this made about Nikki's wrestling? While you criticize it.


:aries2 

I'm gonna assume you're asking what valid point have you made regarding her. I'll go back to a previous post that I made.



> No, it isn't. We are seeing her now as she is. She pulls off a few good moves and that's it. She's just another Alicia Fox. Her weaknesses as an in ring performer and mic worker are still showing. Just because you can pull off a few good moves in no way makes you one of the better performers in the divas division. It doesn't work like that. Right now, Natalya, Aj Lee, Paige, Emma, Naomi, Summer Rae (well, NXT Summer Rae anyways) Alicia Fox, and MAYBE Layla are all still better in ring performers than Nikki. Hell her own sister is better than her in the ring.





K4L318 said:


> *PWI* is putting her on, Jim Ross is putting her on (he doesn't even work here anymore), Dave Meltzer, *411Mania*, *WrestlingInc*,


:maury I've never seen desperation this terrible. This is hilarious. 



K4L318 said:


> HHH himself, he's why she's getting that push, her and Wyatt and Ambrose and Ziggler and Paige, that's to name a few. But here casual poster you I'm waiting for a valid point. In ring valid point. None of you can make it. None.


I'm still waiting for your valid point. What makes Nikki so good in the ring? You haven't given me one reason to believe that she's better than most of the divas on the roster right now. Her moves that she performs? Do you understand how low key these moves are compared to the things other divas in the WWE are doing such as Natalya, Aj Lee, Paige, Naomi, and Alicia Fox? (and don't even get me started on the NXT divas) They perform much better moves than Nikki does. And in terms of storytelling, Nikki is still horrible. I shouldn't need to explain why to you if you think you know so much, I'm just going to say watch her match with Brie at Hell in a Cell and you'll realize what I'm talking about.

Face it, she's nothing special. Right now, she's not even a top 5 in ring performer in the Divas division, and that's not even counting the ones on NXT.


----------



## FearlessNikki (Aug 27, 2014)

tommo010 said:


> I still don't know why people argue with Randumo anyway he's proven AJ mark that thinks she can do no wrong and every other Diva on the roster is substandard compared to her you cannot have a level headed discussion with him because he just pulls out the gif's makes one sided claims that are clearly aimed to favor AJ's strengths and not her weaknesses (See arguement with leonardo for this example) he's best ignored. He's manged to turn a thread about Nikki into a AJ thread too :cole Vintage Randumo


:clap One of the many sociopaths on here that can't be debated with because they refuse to accept anything other than their own viewpoint, constantly twist facts in their favor, and avoid responding to anything that they know they can't counter. Just one example: He said anyone who thinks Brie vs Stephanie or Brie vs Nikki were good matches "doesn't know anything about wrestling" yet he constantly uses Meltzers ratings to defend his points and Meltzer rated both those matches as the best divas PPV matches of the year. He refuses to respond to anyone who points that out because he knows he has no comeback to it. Yet he gets pissed off if anyone does the same thing back :lmao



TheGodsofChristmas said:


> I'm still waiting for your valid point. What makes Nikki so good in the ring? You haven't given me one reason to believe that she's better than most of the divas on the roster right now. Her moves that she performs? Do you understand how low key these moves are compared to the things other divas in the WWE are doing such as Natalya, Aj Lee, Paige, Naomi, and Alicia Fox? (and don't even get me started on the NXT divas) They perform much better moves than Nikki does. And in terms of storytelling, Nikki is still horrible. I shouldn't need to explain why to you if you think you know so much, I'm just going to say watch her match with Brie at Hell in a Cell and you'll realize what I'm talking about.
> 
> Face it, she's nothing special. Right now, she's not even a top 5 in ring performer in the Divas division, and that's not even counting the ones on NXT.


This is another one. Completely ignores every single point that he can't counter, nitpicks the ones he can, and tries to use his opinion as a factual basis for the argument even with video evidence that proves everything he says wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkc-4eAXLJA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA4Qogv2Pnc


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

TheGodsofChristmas said:


> You're right and wrong. I did get it mixed up with another person's comment. I DIDN'T intentionally do this, if that's what you're trying to imply.


admits he's wrong then doesn't just admit but acts like it's my fault.




> I don't see a reason why I shouldn't. The smiley's have more logic than your posts do :fact
> 
> dodges the point.
> 
> ...


dodges another point.



> I'm still waiting for your valid point. What makes Nikki so good in the ring? You haven't given me one reason to believe that she's better than most of the divas on the roster right now. Her moves that she performs? Do you understand how low key these moves are compared to the things other divas in the WWE are doing such as Natalya, Aj Lee, Paige, Naomi, and Alicia Fox? (and don't even get me started on the NXT divas) They perform much better moves than Nikki does. And in terms of storytelling, Nikki is still horrible. I shouldn't need to explain why to you if you think you know so much, I'm just going to say watch her match with Brie at Hell in a Cell and you'll realize what I'm talking about.


Ignored every actual wrestling associated official and media as a source. 



> *Face it, she's nothing special*. *Right now, she's not even a top 5 in ring performer in the Divas division*, and that's not even counting the ones on NXT.


Makes an opinion to finish a long post dodging my response and making no point while throwing his opinion as a fact.

Hey you can play this game. I'll just point out the obvious. :fact <---- See how it makes sense according to your post response.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

FearlessNikki said:


> *Fact: The Bella Twins perform more moves than AJ:*Does that mean they're better wrestlers because they do more moves? No, but it's still a fact because it's a statistic that does exist.


Fact: Moves aren't an indicator of how good a person is in the ring. If that was the case then the fucking Miz we have now is a better in ring performer than Ric Flair was in his prime. 



FearlessNikki said:


> The opinion is where you say "But AJ does all her moves way better than The Bellas" or *"Just because they do all those moves doesn't make them good" that's an opinion...* but can you argue that they don't really do all those moves? No, because it's a fact.


Lol.

Actually, yes it is. Just because they do a bunch of moves does not make them good. That is a fact. It's not an opinion. You're flat out confirming that you have no idea what storytelling is or how matches work. In other words, you have no idea what you're talking about. 

How many moves you can do doesn't matter if you don't know how to properly incorporate them into a match. Have you ever heard of storytelling? Probably not. Google it. 



FearlessNikki said:


> *Fact: The Bella Twins follow the same match formula as AJ:* Watch a AJ Raw match in 2013 and watch any heel Bella match. What will you see? Targeting body parts, submissions, using the ropes, taunting, playing the crowd, same heel tactics. As a face, they get beat up most of the match, make their comeback, and follow some of the same match sequences in between. This is a fact that can be proven with side by side comparisons. The *opinion* is where you say "But AJ does it better"... does that mean that The Bellas don't really do all those things? No, because it's a fact.


First off, no they don't, and that idiot from the video didn't prove that either. If we went by his logic, then all of the wrestlers follow the same formula, therefor everyone is equally good in the ring. 

Second, watch the match between the Bellas at HIAC, and then watch the match between Paige and Aj that occurred the same exact night. Here's your test. See if you can spot the differences in those matches. If you can't figure it out, then you really do have no clue what you're talking about.



FearlessNikki said:


> *Fact: The Bellas have more versatile wrestling styles:* There's certain styles and certain moves AJ can't do because of her size. The Bellas aren't as restricted, for example, Nikki can wrestle both athletic and a power style. The opinion is where you say "But AJ wrestles her one style way better than The Bellas wrestle any of theirs". That doesn't counter the fact that The Bellas do wrestle more styles.


:maury 

I'm sorry, but I can't take you seriously. I just can't.

Yes, the argument that Aj wrestles her style better actually does counter what you're saying. If Aj is working a style much better than they can, even the best one they can do, then that means Aj is clearly a better in ring worker than them. You're burying your own argument and you don't even realize it. 

And nikki can wrestle the athletic style? Since when has she done this? She never once had her moveset or movements for that matter be devoted to an athletic based sequence, so what the hell are you talking about? Are you referring to the fact that she did a suicide dive or did dives off of top ropes? That's not a wrestling style. Those are wrestling moves. Do you even understand what the term style means? This powerhouse mindset she's developed is the first style she's ever consistently stuck with. As of right now she has yet to wrestle more styles than Aj.



FearlessNikki said:


> Just to name a few points. Those are facts


No, they're not. They're viewpoints from a biased individual who, like you, has no idea what he's talking about. Learn what style means, learn what storytelling means, and learn what a fucking match formula is. And also in this day and age I'm pretty sure Aj's doing much more moves than Brie or Nikki at the moment. Your argument is so twisted in a way to make it favor Nikki that it's really sad.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

bro IMO I can't take you serious. And seeing how you are resorting to childish gif insults to avoid a logical debate with an individual who IMO knows more of what he's talking about than you it's not making my opinion sway on not taking you serious.



TheGodsofChristmas said:


> *Yes, the argument that Aj wrestles her style better actually does counter what you're saying. If Aj is working a style much better than they can, even the best one they can do, then that means Aj is clearly a better in ring worker than them. You're burying your own argument* and you don't even realize it.


YOU MADE AN OPINION!


----------



## SecondCity (Apr 2, 2008)

Nikki has really stepped up her wrestling skills and has really stepped up her booty game, the two most important things.


----------



## FearlessNikki (Aug 27, 2014)

TheGodsofChristmas said:


> Fact: Moves aren't an indicator of how *good* a person is in the ring. If that was the case then the fucking Miz we have now is a better in ring performer than Ric Flair was in his prime.


Exactly what I said, you can say that doing a bunch of moves doesn't make them good wrestlers... but can you say that they don't do all the moves at all? One is fact, the other is opinion. I didn't say that doing a lot of moves makes them good I just said that it is a fact that they have more moves. You proved me right because you can try to counter the argument in a bunch of ways but you can't say that it's not a true statement.



TheGodsofChristmas said:


> Just because they do a bunch of moves does not make them *good*. That is a fact. It's not an opinion.


Determining whether something is *good* or *bad* is all opinionated. Opinions are not wrong or right.

Fact: The Bellas have more moves than AJ
Opinion: The Bellas are BETTER because they have more moves than AJ
Opinion: AJ is BETTER even though she has less moves

I'm not arguing opinions.



TheGodsofChristmas said:


> First off, no they don't, and that idiot from the video didn't prove that either. If we went by his logic, then all of the wrestlers follow the same formula, therefor everyone is equally good in the ring.


First, yes they do. Make a legit side-by-side comparison and you will see not only is it the same formula but they practically follow the same step-by-step instructions at times. Second, that's not what I said, I was simply pointing out that this is a fact that exists which you pretty much confirmed with that second sentence that all wrestlers practically do the same thing.



TheGodsofChristmas said:


> Second, watch the match between the Bellas at HIAC, and then watch the match between Paige and Aj that occurred the same exact night. Here's your test. See if you can spot the differences in those matches. If you can't figure it out, then you really do have no clue what you're talking about.


You thought the match was bad. Nothing I say will change that. That's your *opinion*. You'll use an excuse like "The Bella match had no story" which is false. I can explain in detail but I'd be wasting my time because you've made your mind up. I'll just use the one obvious example where Nikki yelled in frustration in the middle of the match "WHAT IS IT GOING TO TAKE?!", that one line is an example of the story they were telling. I'm sure you'll try to come back and say "LMAO that's such a *stupid* example! She's a *bad* actor and that was* awful* attempt at storytelling". Again, that is only your opinion. I don't know how much more obvious it could have been especially with the commentators explaining the story as it progressed. Just because you think it's a *bad* story doesn't mean that you're right and it doesn't mean it wasn't a story at all.

I don't think Aj vs Paige told any kind of story at all, in fact even the commentators at one point were questioning what the emotion of the match was trying to tell. I'm sure in your mind you think they told some fantastic 5 star story but guess what? I don't agree. All I saw in that match was the same thing I saw in all their matches, random moves that had no flow, inconsistent emotion, and several sloppy spots (ie. the 5 minutes it took them to set up the barricade spot). Now you'll call me an idiot and claim I know nothing about wrestling. I can do the same thing to your claims about The Bella match but then you'll call me a troll because you think in your mind that only your viewpoint is the right viewpoint. That's what makes debating with people like you so difficult is that you can't accept any viewpoint but your own.



> Yes, the argument that Aj wrestles her style *better* actually does counter what you're saying. If Aj is working a style much *better* than they can, even the *best* one they can do, then that means Aj is clearly a *better* in ring worker than them. You're burying your own argument and you don't even realize it.


Look it up in a dictionary or wherever, words like good, bad, better, worse, etc. are words that describe *opinions*. Just because you personally think she's better at what she does doesn't mean that other people don't think The Bellas are better at what they do. There is no right or wrong viewpoint it just depends on how you personally see it. That doesn't make the other person wrong it just means you don't see it the same way they do.



> And nikki can wrestle the athletic style? Since when has she done this? She never once had her moveset or movements for that matter be devoted to an athletic based sequence, so what the hell are you talking about? Are you referring to the fact that she did a suicide dive or did dives off of top ropes? That's not a wrestling style. Those are wrestling moves. Do you even understand what the term style means? This powerhouse mindset she's developed is the first style she's ever consistently stuck with. As of right now she has yet to wrestle more styles than Aj.


I guess you've never watched a face Nikki Bella match before.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

K4L318 said:


> bro IMO I can't take you serious. And seeing how you are resorting to childish gif insults to avoid a logical debate


It stopped being a logical debate when you called Nikki Bella's personality "something we've never seen before". At this point it's just child play. 



K4L318 said:


> *with an individual who IMO knows more of what he's talking about than you* it's not making my opinion sway on not taking you serious.


:LOL



K4L318 said:


> YOU MADE AN OPINION!


So a person who does something better than someone isn't actually better than them at said thing?

Again...:LOL



FearlessNikki said:


> Exactly what I said, you can say that doing a bunch of moves doesn't make them good wrestlers... but can you say that they don't do all the moves at all? One is fact, the other is opinion.* I didn't say that doing a lot of moves makes them good I just said that it is a fact that they have more moves.* You proved me right because you can try to counter the argument in a bunch of ways but you can't say that it's not a true statement.


I would believe this if you didn't make an entire thread basically agreeing with every point the guy made, so I already know you're full of shit. 



FearlessNikki said:


> Determining whether something is *good* or *bad* is all opinionated. Opinions are not wrong or right.


That doesn't have anything to do with this.



FearlessNikki said:


> Fact: The Bellas have more moves than AJ
> Opinion: The Bellas are BETTER because they have more moves than AJ
> Opinion: AJ is BETTER even though she has less moves
> 
> I'm not arguing opinions.


:LOL



FearlessNikki said:


> First, yes they do. Make a legit side-by-side comparison and you will see not only is it the same formula but they practically follow the same step-by-step instructions at times.


Again, no they don't. If they did, the placement of counters, face comebacks, moves, finishers, time of the match, would all be exactly the same. I don't think you understand what the term "formula" or at least the subject matter of which you're implying means. In other words, again, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.



FearlessNikki said:


> Second, that's not what I said, I was simply pointing out that this is a fact that exists which you pretty much confirmed with that second sentence that all wrestlers practically do the same thing.


So you're pretty much admitting that your entire original argument was stupid and baseless?



FearlessNikki said:


> You thought the match was bad. Nothing I say will change that. That's your *opinion*. You'll use an excuse like "The Bella match had no story" which is false.


That's not an excuse. That's a reason for not liking a match. Don't use excuse in a context where it doesn't belong. 



FearlessNikki said:


> I can explain in detail but I'd be wasting my time because you've made your mind up. I'll just use the one obvious example where Nikki yelled in frustration in the middle of the match "WHAT IS IT GOING TO TAKE?!", that one line is an example of the story they were telling.


:maury I just can't with this guy.



FearlessNikki said:


> I'm sure you'll try to come back and say "LMAO that's such a *stupid* example! She's a *bad* actor and that was* awful* attempt at storytelling".


Do you even know what storytelling in pro wrestling is?



FearlessNikki said:


> Again, that is only your opinion. I don't know how much more obvious it could have been especially with the commentators explaining the story as it progressed. Just because you think it's a *bad* story doesn't mean that you're right and it doesn't mean it wasn't a story at all.


So why don't you come up with an argument that proves my claim wrong? You're hiding behind irrelevant points that YOU claim aren't being used as an argument to prove Nikki is better than A or B and yet you're criticizing others for not responding to points put up against them? 



FearlessNikki said:


> I don't think Aj vs Paige told any kind of story at all, in fact even the commentators at one point were questioning what the emotion of the match was trying to tell. *I'm sure in your mind you think they told some fantastic 5 star story but guess what*? I don't agree.


Word of advise, making absurd assumptions like this that no person would realistically think won't do you any favors. 

Also, they told no story? Thanks for confirming you have no clue what storytelling is. 



FearlessNikki said:


> All I saw in that match was the same thing I saw in all their matches, random moves that had no flow, inconsistent emotion, and several sloppy spots (ie. the 5 minutes it took them to set up the barricade spot).


:wut

It's like you're using words you heard from others in an attempt to sound smarter. 

P.S. The barricade spot (assuming you're talking about the second one) was utter shit and was worse than anything Nikki or Brie did in their match. Just wanted to point out how I felt regarding that. 



FearlessNikki said:


> Now you'll call me an idiot and claim I know nothing about wrestling.


Why would I call you an idiot?



FearlessNikki said:


> I can do the same thing to your claims about The Bella match but then you'll call me a troll because you think in your mind that only your viewpoint is the right viewpoint. That's what makes debating with people like you so difficult is that you can't accept any viewpoint but your own.


You mean despite the fact that I just got done admitting to being wrong on three different occasions in this thread, one of the times being against you? Again, stop making assumptions. You aren't doing yourself any favors.



FearlessNikki said:


> Look it up in a dictionary or wherever, words like good, bad, better, worse, etc. are words that describe *opinions*. Just because you personally think she's better at what she does doesn't mean that other people don't think The Bellas are better at what they do. There is no right or wrong viewpoint it just depends on how you personally see it. That doesn't make the other person wrong it just means you don't see it the same way they do.


Just stop already. We already know you don't actually believe this. Bottom line is you think the same exact way I do regarding our opinions. We believe ours is right because we believe we know more. Only difference is I've actually attempted to argue my hand at the matter, while you've backed out time and time again at even trying to defend how you feel on the subject matter. Show you actually know something or get ut.



K4L318 said:


> admits he's wrong then doesn't just admit but acts like it's my fault.


Um, no. I admitted I was wrong about the post but I wasn't trying to put it on you. If anything that's worse on my part because it wasn't even a case of me being an asshole but rather of me being stupid. Please stop and think before you post.



K4L318 said:


> dodges another point.


Um, no I didn't. I pointed out how desperate you were being because you were pointing out sources that nobody takes seriously and would never use as a legitimate source of information regarding how "good" someone is in the ring. 



K4L318 said:


> Ignored every actual wrestling associated official and media as a source.


Those aren't valid points. They're other peoples opinions. 



K4L318 said:


> Makes an opinion to finish a long post dodging my response and making no point while throwing his opinion as a fact.


You're making it a lot harder to take you seriously at this point. 



K4L318 said:


> Hey you can play this game. I'll just point out the obvious. :fact <---- See how it makes sense according to your post response.


If you mean you're trying to become a better poster, then this is a good way to start.


----------



## Callisto (Aug 9, 2009)

Kabraxal said:


> Funny, considering that me and others have actually dealt with the points time and time again over the ye... O why do I bother. The Bella brigade has more than proven it's futile to even try anymore. I mean, failure after failure and yet still we have to hear from the same 5 posters how awesome these two jokes are....


It's rather amusing that you immediately proved his point with the description "these two jokes". It took not several, or two, but only one single response to legitimize said point. You, Randumo, and other posters like yourself offer no valid, non-biased exclamation about why The Bellas are subpar talent, neither do you dissect into full depth about what wrestling facets you percieve they are lacking in or are otherwise poor in that department, whether it be their speech patterns or the utterance of their material on the microphone, body language, the way they execute their repertoire in the ring, time placement, the entire match formula, the way they engage their audiences or how they go about telling a story, and the entire nine yards to support said claim. Instead for you, bias transcends all logic and is essentially the crux for your argument. Each and every one of your arguments assume that Nikki and Brie's inferiority as performers are universally accepted facts. But I'm likely asking too much from you. Perhaps contributing to thought-provoking discussion is well out of your abilities, seeing that you even said "no one cared about Brie" during the height of her program with Stephanie.

I'm surprised you haven't been banned for trolling yet, actually. But I digress.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

JINGLE BELLAS said:


> It's rather amusing that you immediately proved his point with the description "these two jokes". It took not several, or two, but only one single response to legitimize said point. You, Randumo, and other posters like yourself offer no valid, non-biased exclamation about why The Bellas are subpar talent, neither do you dissect into full depth about what wrestling facets you percieve they are lacking in or are otherwise poor in that department, whether it be their speech patterns or the utterance of their material on the microphone, body language, the way they execute their repertoire in the ring, time placement, the entire match formula, the way they engage their audiences or how they go about telling a story, and the entire nine yards to support said claim. Instead for you, bias transcends all logic and is essentially the crux for your argument. Each and every one of your arguments assume that Nikki and Brie's inferiority as performers are universally accepted facts. But I'm likely asking too much from you. Perhaps contributing to thought-provoking discussion is well out of your abilities, seeing that you even said "no one cared about Brie" during the height of her program with Stephanie.


This is how you prove your point. Take notes.

P.S. What areas of talent do you think stands out when it comes to the Bellas, out of curiosity?


----------



## Leonardo Spanky (May 1, 2014)

Randumo24 said:


> It's not trolling asking a serious wrestling question. If anyone is to blame, it's Leonardo for not being able to answer a simple question. The real troll here is you for telling anyone that Eva Marie is good at anything other than modeling.





Randumo24 said:


> Yeah, it must have been hard work dodging a simple question for multiple pages.












You've totally buried yourself in this thread.

The question was already answered, and the point of the frankensteiner gif was to disprove a statement made by another member which had nothing to do with AJ executing a move better than Paige. I knew you'd make it about that and you did (as usual), just as I predicted. 



Leonardo Spanky said:


> *Did I say Paige's was better?* We just know how you are and would pounce on that gif right away to say AJ's was better, which seems to be your sole purpose on this forum.
> 
> Doesn't matter anyway. The point was to disprove that statement I quoted and to clarify that it's a frankensteiner not a hurricanrana. :cool2


I don't need to rephrase this just to appease you and I won't. 



Anyways, this thread is getting ridiculous since it's been reduced to posting gifs and videos of botches and crowd reactions, which is petty and always the lowest point in these diva threads.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

JINGLE BELLAS said:


> It's rather amusing that you immediately proved his point with the description "these two jokes". It took not several, or two, but only one single response to legitimize said point. You, Randumo, and other posters like yourself offer no valid, non-biased exclamation about why The Bellas are subpar talent, neither do you dissect into full depth about what wrestling facets you percieve they are lacking in or are otherwise poor in that department, whether it be their speech patterns or the utterance of their material on the microphone, body language, the way they execute their repertoire in the ring, time placement, the entire match formula, the way they engage their audiences or how they go about telling a story, and the entire nine yards to support said claim. Instead for you, bias transcends all logic and is essentially the crux for your argument. Each and every one of your arguments assume that Nikki and Brie's inferiority as performers are universally accepted facts. But I'm likely asking too much from you. Perhaps contributing to thought-provoking discussion is well out of your abilities, seeing that you even said "no one cared about Brie" during the height of her program with Stephanie.
> 
> I'm surprised you haven't been banned for trolling yet, actually. But I digress.


Great post. Its all true, people are so willing to say "the Bellas suck" but how exactly? "They just suck" seems to be the extent of why they suck. Thats just an opinion, not a fact because there's nothing to back up said opinion.


----------



## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

JINGLE BELLAS said:


> It's rather amusing that you immediately proved his point with the description "these two jokes". It took not several, or two, but only one single response to legitimize said point. You, Randumo, and other posters like yourself offer no valid, non-biased exclamation about why The Bellas are subpar talent, neither do you dissect into full depth about what wrestling facets you percieve they are lacking in or are otherwise poor in that department, whether it be their speech patterns or the utterance of their material on the microphone, body language, the way they execute their repertoire in the ring, time placement, the entire match formula, the way they engage their audiences or how they go about telling a story, and the entire nine yards to support said claim. Instead for you, bias transcends all logic and is essentially the crux for your argument. Each and every one of your arguments assume that Nikki and Brie's inferiority as performers are universally accepted facts. But I'm likely asking too much from you. Perhaps contributing to thought-provoking discussion is well out of your abilities, seeing that you even said "no one cared about Brie" during the height of her program with Stephanie.
> 
> I'm surprised you haven't been banned for trolling yet, actually. But I digress.


You want full depth, alright, let me break down why I believe the Bellas are subpar talent by each of those things you mentioned within your post.

*Speech Patterns and Mic Work:* To me in my own view, both come across extremely unnatural across the mic, especially Nikki as a heel, the way they deliver their lines on the microphone and speak seems somewhat forced to me; which overall makes it hard for me as a viewer to take what they are saying or the story they are trying to tell with a general suspension of disbelief nor does it draw me in. During the Bella sister feud it came across to me as if both were uncomfortable with the material they working with honestly in complete truth, if that makes sense? 

I am merely going by most recent work of course as they rarely if ever had mic time before their recent pushes.

*Body Language:* I'm not the best at reading body language, so I could be incorrect; but what they lack for on the mic in my view seems to fail to translate into their body work. Like I see them trying to tell a story with their bodies but I just fail to connect, unnatural is a word I don't want to repeat but it seems fitting in this instance as well.

*Execution of In-Ring Repertoire/General Wrestling:* I feel this is where Nikki outshines Brie to an extent, as not only do I feel that the powerhouse style she uses brings out the best of what skill she is; but I see her as more refined as well. Brie's in ring work on the other hand comes across to me as very sloppy and badly executed moreso then Nikki's, through both girls movesets overall consist of somewhat basic moves that they can execute; and I have yet to see the talent from them to execute more complicated maneuvers.

Many of their moves they execute are executed very poorly as well, such as Brie's version of the Yes Lock, but overall to conclude I just feel that both are still very green and that their work is still very basic; and I personally desire to see more growth before I can think of retooling my opinion.

But they are indeed much better then they were when they came into the business.

*Time Placement and Match Formula:* This is very hard to judge considering all of the main roster Divas are very restricted due to how little time they get out there, but overall this is the area where I probably would say they are best at; as each Bella has a very standard formula to their ring work that they execute well enough. But as I said I just still see it as very basic and green overall. 

*Engaging the Audience and Telling a Story:* This is obviously subjective, and ties in to how you feel about their mic work; but I do not believe that they are great are engaging the audience or telling a story in ring or across the mic. Now admittedly this is not entirely their fault considering how little the casual RAW audience cares about the Divas compared to us on the internet forums. But I have never seen an audience that was greatly engaged with them. I see both come out to worse then cricket reactions week after week after week, with Brie having to use the Yes Chant and it's overness to get any sort of reaction out of the arena audience; Nikki in turn is worse off here however.

Their feud over the summer relates more to their mic work, but again this is entirely not their fault I admit due to how little the crowds care about Divas, but the only time the audience seemed engaged in any of their feuds or this last one was when Stephanie was in; and Stephanie being the over heel she is helped to draw interest and attention. Take her out of the equation in the feud and the Bellas return to silence, and eventually the feud fizzles out to the point where WWE just has to pull the plug on it abruptly and randomly turn Brie heel.


----------



## Jingoro (Jun 6, 2012)

i think the bellas stink, but the whole divas division stinks so they really are no worse than anyone else. aj and paige are a little better. charlotte the second she joins will be the best wrestler on the main roster.


----------



## Londrick (Feb 2, 2013)

Great post by Callisto as usual. Don't expect anyone to give a legit reply though since you buried the Bellas hating trolls.



Leonardo Spanky said:


> Anyways, this thread is getting ridiculous since it's been reduced to posting gifs and videos of botches and crowd reactions, which is petty and always the lowest point in these diva threads.


Agree. This thread is about Nikki, so why are geeks bringing up AJ and Paige?


----------



## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

Christmas Eva Marie said:


> Great post by Callisto as usual. Don't expect anyone to give a legit reply though since you buried the Bellas hating trolls.


I just gave one, any thoughts on that?


----------



## Jingoro (Jun 6, 2012)

Christmas Eva Marie said:


> Agree. This thread is about Nikki, so why are geeks bringing up AJ and Paige?


cuz to most those are the only divas that matter.


----------



## Impeccable Sin (Aug 28, 2013)

K4L318 said:


> You couldn't just leave the peace breaking post above finally end this thread bickering. You had to be the one. If you look at the gif, it's a clear tackle fall out move. AJ mistimed her pull up and Paige patted her ass to tell her to pull up, fall and let go. No I point out what I see.
> 
> I point that out because AJ botched it from the beginning, the fall for a girl like her is not suppose to be over the 2nd rope, it's suppose to be a tackle and fall under the 2nd rope. Like Alicia did to Paige in the Battle Royal. But that's none of my business.


If that's what you see, then you need to get your eyes checked. Why on earth would they be scripted to go between the top & middle rope when AJ is short & Paige isn't all that tall either. AJ was in position to go through the middle & bottom rope. Paige came in too high to go through the way they were supposed to.


----------



## Londrick (Feb 2, 2013)

HBK 3:16 said:


> I just gave one, any thoughts on that?


I said legit replies, not trolling replies.



Jingoro said:


> cuz to most those are the only divas that matter.


If they're the only divas that matter why did no one care about their feud? AJ vs Paige flopped pretty bad unlike Brie vs Steph and Brie vs Nikki which are unanimously considered successful.


----------



## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

Christmas Eva Marie said:


> I said legit replies, not trolling replies.


How in what world was my reply to Calisto trolling? he specifically stated he wanted someone to explain beyond "I just think they suck" as to why they thought the Bellas were subpar talent; and I did just exactly that and went over every key aspect and skill during it.

But of course, even if I explain myself in depth anything that isn't entirely positive about the Bellas automatically equals trolling to you, am I right?.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

TheGodsofChristmas said:


> If you mean you're trying to become a better poster, then this is a good way to start.


When will you begin your process? Just because you're here longer just means you got away for a longer time being a poster doing or thinking the wrong things in your case. But just my opinion. 

And 5 bait gifs to avoid a discussion. That's good posting in a wrestling forum?


----------



## Ghost of Wrestling (Jul 28, 2012)

Christmas Eva Marie said:


> I said legit replies, not trolling replies.
> 
> 
> 
> If they're the only divas that matter why did no one care about their feud? AJ vs Paige flopped pretty bad unlike Brie vs Steph and Brie vs Nikki which are unanimously considered successful.


I dont think anyone cared about Brie vs Nikki. the feud was cut short because not one cared.
People cared about Brie vs Steph because of Daniel Bryan vs the Authority, not because of Brie.

AJ vs Paige flopped because it was AJ vs (what fans think) AJ wannabe, the whole crazy gimmick of Paige worked against her. In fact,Paige winning the Title on her debut could had been too fast for fans to handle, making most fan think she just holding the title cause AJ need a break. 

Paige should had just come as a strong Diva that want the title, no crazy gimmick. Maybe a gimmick like Beth Phoenix's would had work better for Paige. Or a gimmick like Michelle Mccool. Or a mix of Beth Phoenix & Michelle Mccool.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

No one cared yet the only thing diva related WWE wise that was trending was Bella Betrayal. If no one cared why was the topic that more than TakervsBrock and the rest?

Why is that? could it be that people do care? otherwise why talk about it?


----------



## Ghost of Wrestling (Jul 28, 2012)

Bella Betrayal was still Daniel Bryan vs the Authority. When Stephanie pull out from it, everyone STOP caring.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

HBK 3:16 said:


> You want full depth, alright, let me break down why I believe the Bellas are subpar talent by each of those things you mentioned within your post.
> 
> *Speech Patterns and Mic Work:* To me in my own view, both come across extremely unnatural across the mic, especially Nikki as a heel, the way they deliver their lines on the microphone and speak seems somewhat forced to me; which overall makes it hard for me as a viewer to take what they are saying or the story they are trying to tell with a general suspension of disbelief nor does it draw me in. During the Bella sister feud it came across to me as if both were uncomfortable with the material they working with honestly in complete truth, if that makes sense?
> 
> ...


The thing with all this is though people single out the Bellas. But Paige has been very sloppy on the Main roster, AJ as well hasn't looked very good in the ring lately. Paige is awful on the mic, none of the Divas get great reactions thesedays, etc. But everyone ignores stuff like that and acts like the Bella's are just so terrible.

As far as being over goes, the Bellas are still getting great reactions, even Bryan has to use the Yes chant to get huge pops thesedays because the chant is bigger than its creator. Anyway why a wrestler gets a reaction is pointless all that matters is they get a reaction. Seth Rollins still lives off of Shield break up heat half a year later for example, that doesn't lessen what he's doing as a heel though. Brie was getting huge reactions in the Stephanie feud, Nikki was getting huge babyface cheers when she was getting beat down everyweek. They're still getting great Diva reactions thesedays as well, even AJs popularity has waned a lot from when she was slutting it up with all the top guys. 

While neither are great mic workers, they're both adequate, and Nikki shines as a heel mic worker. She's good at portraying arrogance and looking down upon people.

Then what you mock their match formula...umm this is the WWE name one Diva or even 1 male wrestler that doesn't have a basic formula to their TV matches? This is exactly what irks me, you're singling out the Bellas for issues everyone has yet you act like its only them. Laughable.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

Ghost of Wrestling said:


> Bella Betrayal was still Daniel Bryan vs the Authority. When Stephanie pull out from it, everyone STOP caring.


And yet another opinion meanwhile we heard a different crowd at HIAC, we heard the crowd on Main Event and Smackdown. 

But one poster saids everyone stopped caring and can't prove it aside from some internet smarks. And people still talk about why Brie is with her. Again why do you care?


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

K4L318 said:


> When will you begin your process? Just because you're here longer just means you got away for a longer time being a poster doing or thinking the wrong things in your case. But just my opinion.
> 
> And 5 bait gifs to avoid a discussion. That's good posting in a wrestling forum?


Those aren't bait gifs. Those are my natural reactions to your posts. Some of your points are so incredibly stupid that they don't even deserve a legitimate answer. Laugh gifs are the only way I can properly express my reaction towards these responses. 

And fyi, how long I've been here is irrelevant. I'm not one of the best posters here by any means, but judging by what I've seen from you it doesn't take a lot to pass you up in that department.


----------



## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

A Maryse Evamas said:


> The thing with all this is though people single out the Bellas. But Paige has been very sloppy on the Main roster, AJ as well hasn't looked very good in the ring lately. Paige is awful on the mic, none of the Divas get great reactions thesedays, etc. But everyone ignores stuff like that and acts like the Bella's are just so terrible.


While I highly disagree on AJ not looking very good in the ring lately, I will admit that Paige was and has been sloppy at points; through a large part of that was her being rushed into carrying the division and being the champion so suddenly as she was. Now that she has spent more time on the main roster she's gotten much more comfortable and refined in her overall work then she was back when she was first called up; especially since she turned heel. 



A Maryse Evamas said:


> As far as being over goes, the Bellas are still getting great reactions, even Bryan has to use the Yes chant to get huge pops thesedays because the chant is bigger than its creator. Anyway why a wrestler gets a reaction is pointless all that matters is they get a reaction. Seth Rollins still lives off of Shield break up heat half a year later for example, that doesn't lessen what he's doing as a heel though. Brie was getting huge reactions in the Stephanie feud, Nikki was getting huge babyface cheers when she was getting beat down everyweek. They're still getting great Diva reactions thesedays as well, even AJs popularity has waned a lot from when she was slutting it up with all the top guys.


If you call coming out to near dead silence or complete dead silence nearly every single week great reactions then that's your call, as for how a wrestler gets a reaction is very important; as if people really truly cared about Brie they would cheer for her all the time rather then just when she does the YES Chant. 

How can you say people care about them when the crowds went dead after Stephanie left the feud? how can you say people care about them when the feud between them tanked so badly that WWE had to rush and ending to it without explanation and abruptly turn Brie heel? Please explain to me because I just can't understand.



A Maryse Evamas said:


> While neither are great mic workers, they're both adequate, and Nikki shines as a heel mic worker. She's good at portraying arrogance and looking down upon people.


I happen to disagree with you on that as well, Nikki's heel mic work has always come across to me as a viewer as so fake and unnatural; all I see when she goes out there is her working material that she just does not look comfortable with at all really. 



A Maryse Evamas said:


> Then what you mock their match formula...umm this is the WWE name one Diva or even 1 male wrestler that doesn't have a basic formula to their TV matches? This is exactly what irks me, you're singling out the Bellas for issues everyone has yet you act like its only them. Laughable.


Of course everyone has a basic formula, but I just feel taht the way they execute their formula is basic and very green; they still have a long way to go in the ring in my view. But they are definitely not the absolute worst on the roster. There are girls way worse then the Bellas on the roster.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

TheGodsofChristmas said:


> Those aren't bait gifs. Those are my natural reactions to your posts. Some of your points are so incredibly stupid that they don't even deserve a legitimate answer. Laugh gifs are the only way I can properly express my reaction towards these responses.
> 
> And fyi, how long I've been here is irrelevant. I'm not one of the best posters here by any means, but judging by what I've seen from you it doesn't take a lot to pass you up in that department.


Bro all you have made in this thread is an opinions rant. And kept going and going and not making any point. That's all you've done.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

HBK 3:16 said:


> How in what world was my reply to Calisto trolling? he specifically stated he wanted someone to explain beyond "I just think they suck" as to why they thought the Bellas were subpar talent; and I did just exactly that and went over every key aspect and skill during it.
> 
> But of course, even if I explain myself in depth anything that isn't entirely positive about the Bellas automatically equals trolling to you, am I right?.


I'm all for long discussions and point for points... but they rarely ever deal with the points brought up and fall back to the same patterns of defense that have been dissected time and again. We could put together a point to point breakdown of several matches and promos and it wouldn't make a difference. Hell, in discussions on live matches there have been plenty of "why the hell is she doing that? That was random/stupid/nonsense" and yet they gloss over that just to continue "you are just haters!" rants.

The latest rumble over her "amazing" promos is just another notch in that long list of them dismissing points for no reason and then claiming no one was actually bringing up points on why it was bad. And then they wander when some stop responding to them with long detailed points...

Christ... despite that I'm honestly thinking about dissecting the longest so called "good" Bella match and placing it up against something like Charlotte/Sasha from Thursday or any of the longer women's matches on main event, NXT or Payback from last year. I'm leaning to Charlotte/Sasha because I am neither woman's biggest fan, and yet, they are talented enough they managed to make me give a damn about the match and the story behind it. Trish was the same way actually. I didn't like her that much at first but then she found a basic understanding of her abilities, the role she played, and how to use those abilities to best push that role and build the story in the ring. She was no Mickie James or Molly Holly, but she was good.

So far, the Bellas have had 8 years and in the longer matches they have gotten, they've only resorted to random screaming, long drawn out glares, disjointed timing between moves, and a fundamental inability actually taking their role in the match and building from that. But then, that shows in their promos as well. Crying out loud, what the fuck is Nikki supposed to be? Her character is so scattered because of her instagram rambling, that unedited promo, and horrible ring timing with body language/taunts that go from "Fuck you all, I'm this whether you like it or not" to "like me... please like me!" that the only viable answer is someone that isn't all there... though I will fucking give her props for at least trying. Brie is just fucking there. Even though Nikki is failing in many people's eyes, she is at least trying. I don't know what Brie is doing. No body language, flat promos, absolutely nothing in the ring that brings out any character. That pisses me off far more than Nikki simply trying and failing to choose a role and sticking with it. You might possibly fix that if you can get the point across. Brie.. .it just seems like she really isn't in to being a wrestler. She's just there.

And that went far longer than I thought... TLDR version of the main: you can't point to one Bella match and clearly define their role and even several major beats of their characters or story up to that point. 

The truly good wrestlers do that with ease, to the point anyone can come in blind and still understand all the major points of character and story (NXT proves this so fucking much with how many people come in blind to the specials).


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

> We could put together a point to point breakdown of several matches and promos and it wouldn't make a difference


Actually you couldn't be able to do it but that's my opinion. I wish someone would be able to do this but 8 years and nobody has the balls to do it. Probably because they can't. (my opinion)


----------



## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

Kabraxal said:


> I'm all for long discussions and point for points... but they rarely ever deal with the points brought up and fall back to the same patterns of defense that have been dissected time and again. We could put together a point to point breakdown of several matches and promos and it wouldn't make a difference. Hell, in discussions on live matches there have been plenty of "why the hell is she doing that? That was random/stupid/nonsense" and yet they gloss over that just to continue "you are just haters!" rants.


I guess this is what I get for trying to discuss in a long legitimate discussion then, nothing but the standard "you're trolling because you are biased so you are automatically wrong" schtik Bella marks always give out to others.



Kabraxal said:


> The latest rumble over her "amazing" promos is just another notch in that long list of them dismissing points for no reason and then claiming no one was actually bringing up points on why it was bad. And then they wander when some stop responding to them with long detailed points...


Exactly, it's amazing they even wonder.



Kabraxal said:


> Christ... despite that I'm honestly thinking about dissecting the longest so called "good" Bella match and placing it up against something like Charlotte/Sasha from Thursday or any of the longer women's matches on main event, NXT or Payback from last year. I'm leaning to Charlotte/Sasha because I am neither woman's biggest fan, and yet, they are talented enough they managed to make me give a damn about the match and the story behind it. Trish was the same way actually. I didn't like her that much at first but then she found a basic understanding of her abilities, the role she played, and how to use those abilities to best push that role and build the story in the ring. She was no Mickie James or Molly Holly, but she was good.


I doubt that even if you had a two page point by point thoroughly detailed breakdown comparison between the Bella HiAC match and Charlotte vs Sasha that they would respond with more then just "you are automatically wrong because you despise the goddess Bella's" routine they have down pat but worth to give it a try if you want.



Kabraxal said:


> Crying out loud, what the fuck is Nikki supposed to be? Her character is so scattered because of her instagram rambling, that unedited promo, and horrible ring timing with body language/taunts that go from "Fuck you all, I'm this whether you like it or not" to "like me... please like me!" that the only viable answer is someone that isn't all there... though I will fucking give her props for at least trying.


Exactly, this is why I can not buy Nikki as a good heel, because to me it seems like she does not want to be a heel and is uncomfortable with the role; so she comes off so unnatural as a heel and her character just flips flop so much all over the place that is pretty much impossible to get invested in the feud. But yeah I'll give her credit for at least trying to improve, Brie is just monotone and lifeless most of the time really.



Kabraxal said:


> And that went far longer than I thought... TLDR version of the main: you can't point to one Bella match and clearly define their role and even several major beats of their characters or story up to that point.
> 
> The truly good wrestlers do that with ease, to the point anyone can come in blind and still understand all the major points of character and story (NXT proves this so fucking much with how many people come in blind to the specials).


Exactly, that is my biggest gripe with them honestly outside of how green and basic I feel they are as wrestlers, they just can not act at all; literally not at all.


----------



## PeoplePowerEra (Nov 21, 2013)

Kabraxal said:


> We could put together a point to point breakdown of several matches and promos and it wouldn't make a difference. Hell, in discussions on live matches there have been plenty of "why the hell is she doing that? That was random/stupid/nonsense" and yet they gloss over that just to continue "you are just haters!" rants.


You mean like exactly what this video is?






Beat for beat, move for move examples showcasing every single detail of the matches. Well, it's already been confirmed that all you have to do is say "No that's just video editing/nitpicking" and automatically the entire argument is countered. That's exactly what you and others like you have done. What you think Bella marks are is exactly what you Paige/AJ marks are. Whenever evidence is proven against them, you don't bother trying to give a legit counter against, you think that just shrugging it off as propoganda is enough.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

HBK 3:16 said:


> I guess this is what I get for trying to discuss in a long legitimate discussion then, nothing but the standard "you're trolling because you are biased so you are automatically wrong" schtik Bella marks always give out to others.


Actually it's defend the Bellas you're trolling. Make a point get it countered with an opinion. I'll show you now. 



> Exactly, it's amazing *they even wonder*.


indirect insult




> *I doubt that even if you had a two page point by point thoroughly detailed breakdown*


FTLOG do it. You don't because you can't.



> comparison between the Bella HiAC match and Charlotte vs Sasha that *they would respond with more then just "you are automatically wrong because you despise the goddess Bella's"* routine they have down pat but worth to give it a try if you want.


Never happens.



> *Exactly, this is why I can not buy Nikki* as a good heel, *because to me* *it seems* like she does not want to be a heel and is uncomfortable with the role; so she comes off so unnatural as a heel and her character just flips flop so much all over the place that is pretty much impossible to get invested in the feud.


this is what we're talking about with opinion. 



> *Exactly, that is my biggest gripe with them* honestly outside of how green and *basic I feel they are* as wrestlers, they just can not act at all; literally not at all.


That's more about the problem. More opinions to rip on them. No facts, you acknowledge Nikki got better yet continue to insult her ability. 

Meanwhile you told me in the same thread that Paige made strides leaps and bounds bro. Come on now.


----------



## islesfan13 (May 8, 2014)

This thread is still a thing? And then the team planet sexy video gets posted. I cant. Bury this thread and call it a night.


----------



## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

K4L318 said:


> Actually it's defend the Bellas you're trolling. Make a point get it countered with an opinion. I'll show you now.


I'm not trolling, you guys seem to be only ones that think any of us are trolling merely because we don't worship at the altar of the Bella's



K4L318 said:


> indirect insult


Okay, fair enough; that was a bit far.



K4L318 said:


> FTLOG do it. You don't because you can't.


We can, but you would just automatically say it was wrong because it doesn't confirm with your view on the matter.



K4L318 said:


> Never happens.


How not? it happens every time.



K4L318 said:


> That's more about the problem. More opinions to rip on them. No facts, you acknowledge Nikki got better yet continue to insult her ability.
> 
> Nikki did get better, that's not a lie; still doesn't mean that she's a _good_ wrestler. Just good enough to not do terribly. She is still very green at it.
> 
> ...


----------



## islesfan13 (May 8, 2014)

FWIW Paige and the Bellas are on a fast track to becoming a faction, I see it being foreshadowed in houseshows so if it does happen will the fighting get worst or will we just be civil with each other?


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

PeoplePowerEra said:


> You mean like exactly what this video is?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Point for point... yet it's clips from several matches. :clap

A point for point breakdown of a MATCH is using ONE MATCH and breaking it down to talk about the role of each participant and how they use their ability to build that role and further a story. 

You are doing the exact same thing as another Bella mark has done and proven you really don't have a grasp on what is being talked about. Not just psychology, but a simple statement such as "point to point breakdown of match" and comparing that to the best from another pairing. In what I'd be doing, it would be taking CHarlotte/Sasha from NXT and comparing it to say, Bella/Steph or Bella Bella from Summerslam. Not taking thirty different matches that range from filler to actual decent length and mashing them together and proclaiming it some grand truth when it's simply a shit video with no understanding of actual ring psychology. 

Here's a hint, when I can come in blind and tell you the major beats of a feud from just one match and give you a decent definition of what roles are being used and how long or intense the feud has been... that's great psychology. When I come in with full knowledge of the fued and its history and still can't tell you what role someone is or how intense or long the feud has been without commentary having to parrot it the entire fucking match, then there is a problem. That is the Bellas. One doesn't seem to give a shit and the other can't take a role and stick with it.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

HBK 3:16 said:


> I'm not trolling, you guys seem to be only ones that think any of us are trolling merely because we don't worship at the altar of the Bella's


When have I called you a troll? I don't remember ever calling you one.




> Okay, fair enough; that was a bit far.


.




> We can, but you would just automatically say it was wrong because it doesn't confirm with your view on the matter.


How do you know if you don't do it. You have a point make it. There's the challenge prove you can. 



> How not? it happens every time.


More like Never.



> Nikki did get better, that's not a lie; *still doesn't mean that she's a good wrestler.* Just good enough to not do terribly. She is still very green at it.


there it is again.




> Paige has made leaps and bounds in improvement *since she got called up[/i], how is that not true?; or can the Bella's get better (a fact I agreed with) but Paige automatically can't improve at all? *


*

Because she hasn't. She's still that same girl. She will improve in time, she hasn't yet.*


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

islesfan13 said:


> FWIW Paige and the Bellas are on a fast track to becoming a faction, I see it being foreshadowed in houseshows so if it does happen will the fighting get worst or will we just be civil with each other?


Why would it suddenly get civil? Much of the Bella issue predates Paige and Paige joining forces with them isn't going to change many people's perceptions. At this point, I'm dreading TD and this "faction" if it actually happens, because it will take what Paige has done these past few months and probably stall it just like Cesaro was stalled after WM.


----------



## islesfan13 (May 8, 2014)

K4L318 said:


> When have I called you a troll? I don't remember ever calling you one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think everybody and their mother can admit Paige has improved leaps and bounds from when she was first brought up; Even her bigges critics on youtube (those guys you post quite often) have said they now enjoy watching her and her improvement. Even you can admit that. I wont be a biased mark and say Nikki hasn't improved big time from just 2 years ago where she was AWFUL imo. She is much better now.


----------



## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

K4L318 said:


> When have I called you a troll? I don't remember ever calling you one.


Not you specifically, other Bella marks have through.



K4L318 said:


> How do you know if you don't do it. You have a point make it. There's the challenge prove you can.


Well consider the general Bella mark response to most points brought up I doubt it; but if you really want the comparison I or someone else will be happy to do it.



K4L318 said:


> More like Never.


It just happened two pages ago.



K4L318 said:


> there it is again.


What is "it"?



K4L318 said:


> Because she hasn't. She's still that same girl. She will improve in time, she hasn't yet.


How hasn't she improved? she was a timid, nervous, unprepared, cowardly unnatural babyface when she started, and since then she has grown less timid and more confident in the ring (which has led to her ring work improving), she has improved on the mic drastically (she's not great now mind you but she's gotten to a passable level); and she has grown more natural and comfortable in her role on the main roster since she turned heel.

How is that not improvement?


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

islesfan13 said:


> I think everybody and their mother can admit Paige has improved leaps and bounds from when she was first brought up; Even her bigges critics on youtube (those guys you post quite often) have said they now enjoy watching her and her improvement. Even you can admit that. I wont be a biased mark and say Nikki hasn't improved big time from just 2 years ago where she was AWFUL imo. She is much better now.


not leaps and bounds. They like how she has more confidence. Give 3 or 4 more weeks they'll insult her again.



HBK 3:16 said:


> Not you specifically, other Bella marks have through


ok.




> Well consider the general Bella mark response to most points brought up I doubt it; but if you really want the comparison I or someone else will be happy to do it.


Do it.



> It just happened two pages ago.


No it didn't. Do it for real.



> What is "it"?


compliment followed up with an insult.



> How hasn't she improved? she was a timid, nervous, unprepared, cowardly unnatural babyface when she started, and since then *she has grown less timid and more confident in the ring* (which has led to her ring work improving), she has improved on the mic drastically (she's not great now mind you but she's gotten to a passable level); and she has grown more natural and comfortable in her role on the main roster since she turned heel.


she hasn't improved in the mic, her confidence is all that has improved. Moves the same, movement in the ring still the same. She's passable is what I agree with.



> How is that not improvement?


that's not leaps and bounds improvement. I told you she will, she is still young but leaps and bounds improvement hasn't happened yet.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

Funny how Nikki gets hate for her all over then place character...what about Paige/AJ who flip flop face/heel constantly? AJ in particular is meant to be a face but cuts bitchy heel promos and shows arrogance 24/7.

Bringing up Nikkis instagram/twitter posts to discredit her wrestling work is silly as well. Kayfabe isn't alive in 2014. Does Paige act like a bitch to her fans or does she break kayfabe for her fans on twitter/facebook/househows as well?


----------



## islesfan13 (May 8, 2014)

K4L318 said:


> not leaps and bounds. They like how she has more confidence. Give 3 or 4 more weeks they'll insult her again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The one guy may critique her but the other one seems to be a full fledge fan now. He basically said he was wrong about her and likes watching her now. Maybe give it another listen. Not that it matters what two random people on yt say anyways but anytime you get critics to become fans is pretty damn good.


----------



## PeoplePowerEra (Nov 21, 2013)

Kabraxal said:


> Point for point... yet it's clips from several matches. :clap
> 
> A point for point breakdown of a MATCH is using ONE MATCH and breaking it down to talk about the role of each participant and how they use their ability to build that role and further a story.


My point exactly. What you think Bella marks are is exactly what you are. I give a legitimate point against Paige, video evidence to support it, I can even gladly link you to each and every one of those matches and dissect them myself, yet all you have to do to dismiss it is say "STUPID VIDEO THE GUY WHO MADE IT HAS NO IDEA WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT". So then stop bitching when people respond to you the same way. If you don't have to address points why should others have to address you? Stop trying to give excuses for why you don't have to address the point, just address the damn point or admit that you can't. (waits for the "i dont have to because you know nothing about wrestling and the video isn't worth my time" excuse)



> In what I'd be doing, it would be taking CHarlotte/Sasha from NXT and comparing it to say, Bella/Steph or Bella Bella from Summerslam. Not taking thirty different matches that range from filler to actual decent length and mashing them together and proclaiming it some grand truth when it's simply a shit video with no understanding of actual ring psychology.


While you're at it, why not compare that match to any of the Paige vs AJ matches? Huh? Why don't you do that? Why not compare that match to any of Paige's PPV matches this year? Since you seem to have this idiotic idea that you can take one of the best womens matches of all time and compare it to any match go ahead and make those comparisons because not even Paige's greatest match compares to Sasha vs Charlotte or Charlotte vs Natalya. Hell I don't even think Mickie James had a match that good but go ahead and make that comparison as if you're really proving some kind of point.



> Here's a hint, when I can come in blind and tell you the major beats of a feud from just one match and give you a decent definition of what roles are being used and how long or intense the feud has been... that's great psychology. When I come in with full knowledge of the fued and its history and still can't tell you what role someone is or how intense or long the feud has been without commentary having to parrot it the entire fucking match, then there is a problem. That is the Bellas. One doesn't seem to give a shit and the other can't take a role and stick with it.


Yet I guarantee you will never be able to explain a Paige match that has any of those elements. About what you said earlier, I was planning on making a dissection of every Paige match, each would get it's own video, and each would show just how terrible her skills really are. The only reason I haven't done it by now is because I know I'd be wasting my time because I know for a fact that even if I did that and linked every single one of those videos, people like you would just do exactly what you do with that first Paige video. You dismiss it as bias hate, you say it's irrelevant, you say it's just video editing, but what you never do is address the actual content because you know that you can't. Like I said, what you think Bella fans are is exactly what you are.


----------



## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

K4L318 said:


> Do it.


Alright, I will.



K4L318 said:


> compliment followed up with an insult.


So? I can say and agree with the fact that Nikki has improved while also saying that doesn't automatically make her the best diva on the roster.



K4L318 said:


> she hasn't improved in the mic, her confidence is all that has improved. Moves the same, movement in the ring still the same. She's passable is what I agree with.


That confidence improvement is what _led_ to her improvement on the mic in the first place, as that confidence boost that she now has means that she feels more natural in her role on the main roster and is in turn more natural on the microphone then she was in her initial babyface run; especially as she does more and more promo work. But yeah I'll agree, passable is pretty much what she is; through I imagine as she gets more experience on the mic she'll improve over time.

Of course she still moves in the ring the same, she has a wrestling style.



K4L318 said:


> that's not leaps and bounds improvement. I told you she will, she is still young but leaps and bounds improvement hasn't happened yet.


It's leaps and bounds from the timid hot mess that she was when she first started on the main roster is what I mean. But yes she is still young and she is only going to get better with age.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

PeoplePowerEra said:


> You mean like exactly what this video is?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ohhhhhh... I remember watching NXT and thinking yikes on that mic. Her psychology will improve. It's nowhere near ready right now and some of that is her and some of that is booking.


----------



## islesfan13 (May 8, 2014)

PeoplePowerEra said:


> My point exactly. What you think Bella marks are is exactly what you are. I give a legitimate point against Paige, video evidence to support it, I can even gladly link you to each and every one of those matches and dissect them myself, yet all you have to do to dismiss it is say "STUPID VIDEO THE GUY WHO MADE IT HAS NO IDEA WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT". So then stop bitching when people respond to you the same way. If you don't have to address points why should others have to address you? Stop trying to give excuses for why you don't have to address the point, just address the damn point or admit that you can't. (waits for the "i dont have to because you know nothing about wrestling and the video isn't worth my time" excuse)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


fpalm


----------



## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

A Maryse Evamas said:


> Funny how Nikki gets hate for her all over then place character...what about Paige/AJ who flip flop face/heel constantly? AJ in particular is meant to be a face but cuts bitchy heel promos and shows arrogance 24/7.
> 
> Bringing up Nikkis instagram/twitter posts to discredit her wrestling work is silly as well. Kayfabe isn't alive in 2014. Does Paige act like a bitch to her fans or does she break kayfabe for her fans on twitter/facebook/househows as well?


AJ is not really a face she's honestly a tweener through and through, so she isn't meant to be all cuddly and sweet and sugar all the time you know; she is bitchy at times and nice at others. Her character tows the line on the face/heel spectrum as any good tweener should. And Paige has only turned once on the main roster, so she is irrelevant in that regard.

As for Nikki, the Instagram/Twitter posts are also irrelevant, because the only thing you need to point too in regards to her is that Smackdown promo; she's supposed to be a vindictive heel yet goes out and cuts a promo about how hard she works and how much she loves the kid? It was such a babyface promo that the E had to edit it, that is the definition of character flip-flopping.


----------



## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

Double post sorry.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

K4L318 said:


> Bro all you have made in this thread is an opinions rant. And kept going and going and not making any point. That's all you've done.


Going back to the opinions argument isn't doing you much good at this point. It's a horrible way to go out about presenting your argument, especially when you have failed time and time again to retort my points because they're "opinions". It's made even worse by the fact that I have been doing no such thing. But feel free to live in your own fantasy world.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

islesfan13 said:


> fpalm


don't do that, this poster is making sense. 

Him, FearlessNikki, that Tor guy, me, Maryse. Now we're putting facts here vs opinion people are basing as facts. This thread just got started. :cool2


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

TheGodsofChristmas said:


> Going back to the opinions argument isn't doing you much good at this point. It's a horrible way to go out about presenting your argument, especially when you have failed time and time again to retort my points because they're "opinions". It's made even worse by the fact that I have been doing no such thing. But feel free to live in your own fantasy world.


Because you've made no point. You've ducked most of the points brought up to you, you're rude, you post gifs as some cute IWC troll way that you state is your normal way of posting. I live in reality. Better yourself, you're only fooling yourself in the end.

And it's such a pity too, because a guy with Bryan Danielson and Brock Lesnar as his sig, you'd think he'd be able to make wrestling points and not resort to childish acts.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

A Maryse Evamas said:


> Funny how Nikki gets hate for her all over then place character...what about Paige/AJ who flip flop face/heel constantly? AJ in particular is meant to be a face but cuts bitchy heel promos and shows arrogance 24/7.


Can you define her role though... for the most part, yet. She is an arrogant, bored, loner sick of many of the divas around her. When she does something in the ring, that is still the core. It's not just about heel/face, but the actual core. Austin wasn't a traditional face, but he had a defined and set role that he used in everything he did. 

Paige took time and is still refining her role on the main roster. The reason she is getting time from many fans is because most of her fans came with her from NXT and saw someone that had established a character and a role and built everything around it. The anti-diva role in NXT was very defined and it is still confusing to why she was only starting to get that back recently. Should have debuted with it.

When you get down to it, the heel/face designation is surface only. The true role/character is far more nuanced and important to matches than "who is the heel and who is the face?". Hell, one of the greatest examples of this is Hart/Piper at WMVIII. You can see not only the history of their short feud, but the whole history for Piper stretched out because of what he is doing in the ring. Heel/face was tertiary, it was the charcter, the role (in this case the older veteran clinging to his only title ever versus this up and coming technician hungry for more) was the meat of the match. That's why it was a great match. Everything was right there... you didn't need a recap. You didn't need commentary harping on every 30 seconds about how precious the title was to Piper or how intense the moment. It was all right there... in the ring for everyone to take in as it happened.

That is true in ring psychology. That is wrestling. Not the moves, not the looks, not a yell... but how those moves are done, the reasons they are done, and how well they are paced and intertwined to create a story that will stand forever, recaps or not.



PeoplePowerEra said:


> My point exactly. What you think Bella marks are is exactly what you are. I give a legitimate point against Paige, video evidence to support it, I can even gladly link you to each and every one of those matches and dissect them myself, yet all you have to do to dismiss it is say "STUPID VIDEO THE GUY WHO MADE IT HAS NO IDEA WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT". So then stop bitching when people respond to you the same way. If you don't have to address points why should others have to address you? Stop trying to give excuses for why you don't have to address the point, just address the damn point or admit that you can't. (waits for the "i dont have to because you know nothing about wrestling and the video isn't worth my time" excuse)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmm... *looks at Paige/Emma* guess that was just a dream? Strange...

And if you actually read my post, I'm leaning toward Charlotte/Sasha because they AREN"T MY FAVOURITES. Get that.. you wouldn't be able to sit there and go "but but.. you just did that because it's AJ!" if I chose Kait/AJ. I know that is exactly what would happen. 

I wasn't that into the feud for Charlotte/Sasha.. .it was okay. Nothing horrid but nothing special. But I'm sitting there on Thursday, slowly finding myself leaning foward and giving an actual shit about what happens. I had every right to switch off and not care but those two women played their roles perfectly, went out and put on a fucking clinic, and got me to care. 

Fuck... I actually try to take any possible bias out of the equation and the Bella marks still jump out and cry foul before the fucking comparison is even done. Tells us all we need to know about how strong the argumetns you have are... preemptive excuses fpalmfpalmfpalmfpalmfpalmfpalmfpalmfpalmfpalm


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

Merged to the above


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

Funny how the guy brings up WrestleMania. Most likely I'm blocked by him (good thing)

Brings up the ring psychology of Rowdy Pipper! and Bret Hart! Yet one of the greatest matches in WrestleMania history Ricky the Dragon Steamboat and Macho Man Randy Savage. Ricky won in heel style. Macho gets his bell rung by George the animal steal. Babyface psychology out the window Greatest win for Ricky. 

Hulk Hogan and Brutus the Barber Beefcake vs Macho Man and Zeus (remember that black guy from Friday?) how did Hogan slay the giant? he hit him with a purse with a brick.

The Hart Foundation vs The Anderson brothers, the interference in that match alone you couldn't tell who was heel, if you were casual. 

So this myth about promo when you're cutting a personal angle. It amazes me the validity in this. 

Recently we had Paige in the summer telling AJ she wasn't ready to wrestle her, then later on same character tells a returning AJ that the fans don't want to see that match.

We have AJ who does not one thing babyface, not one, the girl is a mime CM Punk drone robot out there. Yet that is praised. I can't with this logic.


----------



## Cabanarama (Feb 21, 2009)

LoveBites said:


> wow man spell check bro. that hurt to read. Nicki being champ is just awful to begin with. She cant wrestle and sucks on the mic. Brie is 10x better wrestler and talker. Nicki is just there for her nice tits.


Wrestler yes, talker no...


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

Meanwhile here we have Sasha Banks and Charlotte Flair. 

Flair supossively the babyface, yet Flair's in ring actions are anything but that. And then you Sasha who does every dirty, insulting thing and can't go over as a heel because Charlotte Flair is a terrible face.


----------



## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

Okay K4, you wanted a breakdown so I will give you a breakdown; instead of comparing Charlotte vs Sasha vs the HIAC Bella match. I have decided to compare Paige vs Emma from NXT with it, as I feel comparing Charlotte vs Sasha would be a bit unfair in truth.





 vs 




Now, the key points for a match for me tend to be the following. In Ring Verbal and Physical Storytelling, Move/Wrestling Execution; and Crowd Engagement. We'll compare those three points.

*Crowd Engagement:* Admittedly, this is a bit unfair for the Bella's as the NXT crowd is fairly smarky and very small; and very much into the NXT matches. But to start off take note of the loudness of the crowd for the Bella match, quiet as fuck; there are some low key chants through out the match but overall the crowd does not appear as a viewer watching it to be very engaged in with the match. The highest points of the crowd's loudness were at the pin, which the reaction was mild; and when Nikki started doing the YES Chants. Which I get she was trying to mock Nikki but it took alot out of the match as the crowd is now chanting along side Nikki, when she should be getting huge heat; heat that is not there.

Paige vs Emma on the other hand you have a very engaged and very drawn in crowd, what they are doing in the ring is making them care, with very loud and very clear alternating chants for both Paige and Emma echoing across Full Sail; the fact that it's a fairly niche crowd helps admittedly. But the fact of the matter is this is how a crowd should react to you, not with dead silence for the majority of your match.

*In Ring Storytelling:* This is where I feel Nikki vs Brie falls flat the hardest, as the more simple storytelling of Emma and Paige shines through greatly, with both women using a combination of facial expressions and body mannerisms and movements to tell a story of wrestling to draw that crowd in and make them care about each and every movement in the ring; the only knack I have about it is the amount of rollups. But that does not take away from it at all in truth.

In terms of Brie and Nikki's match, I have a huge problem with it because they are not just allowing their wrestling to tell the story, this is supposed to be a _blood feud_ yet I feel no quickness or desire from either to beat the crap out of each other as badly as they can in the manner a blood feud should entail, to me there seems to be an over reliance of screams, yells and similar characteristics to try and portray the anger; and a general clusterfuck of the two really just trying to do too much. When they could instead allow the anger and emotion to emit through their moves and tell a simpler and more coherent story with it.

*The Wrestling:* In terms of the actual wrestling, I will admit that is probably both of their best work, their move execution for the most part is alright and they do what they need to do; hit their spots fine. But it's all very basic and still very greenish in their work to me as well. Which in my view is not a good thing. I want to see more fire, more destruction; I want to see them execute more complicated maneuvers. Etc. 

Their selling is also very over the top to a point as well, like they are trying somewhat too hard I feel; something I think they need to work on.

Paige and Emma on the other hand while yes still somewhat basic due to their youth, I feel that the move execution and wrestling within it was crisp, clean and refined to a point considering the experience of both women; they hit their spots and they hit them well. Using their storytelling in combination with the moves themselves to draw the crowd into every single minute of the match and the story they are trying to tell with it.


----------



## Leonardo Spanky (May 1, 2014)

From this OP:



Kfchicken said:


> I'm guessing the lacking mention of the title and the Bella absence on raw was probably due to that bipolar promo she did a couple weeks back?
> 
> I honestly can't stand nicki and thought she deserved that. But I can't help but think that it hurt the divas division by not having the championship holder out on the last raw before the ppv.


To this:



PeoplePowerEra said:


> My point exactly. What you think Bella marks are is exactly what you are. I give a legitimate point against Paige, video evidence to support it, I can even gladly link you to each and every one of those matches and dissect them myself, yet all you have to do to dismiss it is say "STUPID VIDEO THE GUY WHO MADE IT HAS NO IDEA WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT". So then stop bitching when people respond to you the same way. If you don't have to address points why should others have to address you? Stop trying to give excuses for why you don't have to address the point, just address the damn point or admit that you can't. (waits for the "i dont have to because you know nothing about wrestling and the video isn't worth my time" excuse)
> 
> 
> 
> ...





There's so few Bella marks on this forum, but they stand out so much for their relentless determination to convince the world that they are great wrestlers and refuse to accept the opinions of those that don't like them. 
Their defense is always to trash other wrestlers and it's no surprise that we've now reached the point where the manipulative youtube videos are being posted that an obsessed Bella fan actually wasted valuable time from life to make. Instead of explaining why they think the Bellas are good wrestlers they have to resort to this piteousness. So now a thread about Nikki Bellas lackluster title reign is now about exposing AJ Lee and Paige's inadequacies. kay

Nikki Bella was given the most attention by creative this year, more so than AJ and Paige, and she blew it. It's evident by all the bad reviews she's recieved from critics and people here, how the company has booked her since winning the title, how they only give her mic time on Smackdown now. I wouldn't be surprised if they give it right back to AJ.

And KLwhatever, you're a blind mark so just admit it. Even when Brie Bella obviously botched on Smackdown last week you had such a ridiculous excuse for it. And stop shutting people down for giving their opinion because they have the right to express it and that's all you do anyway, express your opinion. The difference is you make 100 posts per thread so it's more overbearing. Many people have explained why they don't like their mic skills and you nor any Bella mark on this forum will accept it no matter what they say. I don't know what 'facts' you're expecting when it comes to that. It's all subjective. 


















Here, I'll do the same petty shit. 

And PeoplePowerEra, I find it funny that you're never online but only show up when there's some Bella argument going on and you show up with your Paige and AJ videos. Clearly a sock account. And please go ahead and make those videos that you wanted to make. Waste more time out of your life to download Paige videos and edit together a scatching attack to post on youtube. I don't think someone with a fulflling life would do that. 

This is all fake womens wrestling you are all being obsessive about. And fake womens wrestling in a company that gives it no respect with shitty feuds, 2-5 minute tv matches, and 7 minutes on PPV if you're lucky. Some people don't like you're favorite 'diva', so grow up and get over it.

Have you ever seen AJ marks band together by posting videos and trash other wrestlers to prove that she's good? Or Paige fans? or Charlotte fans? or Sasha fans? etc etc. It's always just the Bella marks. Some people think the Bellas are good, some dont. It's never going to change no matter how much you obessively post on this forum. Personally I think Nikki Bella is a capable wrestler but I'm just not a fan. Her mic work is stil lacking IN MY OPINION. Brie is just cringe on the mic every time she speaks and I think any rational person realizes this, including people in WWE considering Stephanie carried their feud on the mic and Nikki got most of the mic time during their feud as well. And brie's offense is just executed too weakly for me. She even almost killed herself with that sucide dive and couldn't even lift Naomi up. 

I've been cool with some of the Bella marks lately but these last few pages are ridiculous and this thread has become toxic. Mods should be locking it in no time. This shit has run its course and is no longer about the OP. It's turned into a comparison thread which is against forum rules.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

HBK3:16 I'll get to you. Because I agree with some of what you said. 



Leonardo Spanky said:


> Here, I'll do the same petty shit.


The wheel barrow drop was done on purpose, it was leading to her sliding out of the ring, Nikki was there and set both up for a baseball slide. (Yay! Naomi!) that's the purpose.

The schoolboy roll up, Cameron again standing in the wrong spot. You even see her keep her left foot in making it impossible for Brie to roll her up. Brie had to yank that girl's skirt to get her to move that foot.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

Leonardo Spanky said:


> From this OP:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd rather be talking about NXT but sadly, those topics are much slower than some of these and sometimes I just want to talk wrestling. I mean, in this topic I've gotten to talk more about in ring psychology than almost any such dedicated topic because there is a vested interest in the talent involved. 

Maybe should look into a podcast roundtable since many of those died out.


----------



## PeoplePowerEra (Nov 21, 2013)

Kabraxal said:


> Paige took time and is still refining her role on the main roster. The reason she is getting time from many fans is because most of her fans came with her from NXT and saw someone that had established a character and a role and built everything around it. The anti-diva role in NXT was very defined and it is still confusing to why she was only starting to get that back recently. Should have debuted with it.


The fact that you're trying to justify Paige's lack of a consistent character invalidates all your claims about Nikki's character. Can you even properly define Paige's character? I don't even think WWE has a clear definition of what Paige is. Is she heel or face? If her feud with AJ ended 2 months ago why is she still borrowing traits that she initially used to mock AJ as part of her character now? Is she a lesbian? Is she an "anti-diva"? So why is she on Total Divas? Paige has no defined character. 



Kabraxal said:


> Hmm... *looks at Paige/Emma* guess that was just a dream? Strange...
> 
> And if you actually read my post, I'm leaning toward Charlotte/Sasha because they AREN"T MY FAVOURITES. Get that.. you wouldn't be able to sit there and go "but but.. you just did that because it's AJ!" if I chose Kait/AJ. I know that is exactly what would happen.


Did I ever imply you were being bias towards Charlotte or Sasha? No, so quit pulling random arguments out your ass.

Charlotte vs Sasha was one of the greatest womens matches of all time, no one on the planet is going to argue against it being better than Brie vs Nikki or Brie vs Stephanie. Yet for some reason you think that comparison is supposed to prove that The Bellas suck? Explain how that makes any sense? If you really wanted to make a legit comparison why not compare any of The Bella matches to any of the AJ vs Paige matches since they all had equal time and story?... oh I know why... because you won't have as strong of an argument. That goes to show how pathetic your argument is that the only way you can make it look bad is by comparing them to a 4-5 star match that took place on NXT with better booking, more time, and less restrictions.

Anyway, you still haven't addressed any of my points. You can't address how mediocre Paige was on NXT, you can't address how mediocre all her PPV matches have been, you can't address how inconsistent her character is, you can't address the Paige video, and I'm sure any attempt I make to lay out anything about how Paige is the personification of everything you're arguing against right now, you'd just use the ol "you know nothing about wrestling" excuse again. I say it again, stop bitching when people don't answer your stupid posts when you are the exact same way.


----------



## Leonardo Spanky (May 1, 2014)

K4L318 said:


> HBK3:16 I'll get to you. Because I agree with some of what you said.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:heston 

the schoolboy was all on Brie. She fell on her ass before she scooped Cameron. And you were supposed to post gifs of Paige botching a schoolboy. That's what Bella marks do around here. 











Just in case anyone missed them. :cool2


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

HBK 3:16 said:


> Okay K4, you wanted a breakdown so I will give you a breakdown; instead of comparing Charlotte vs Sasha vs the HIAC Bella match. I have decided to compare Paige vs Emma from NXT with it, as I feel comparing Charlotte vs Sasha would be a bit unfair in truth.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you made one good point. One good point. Which I 100% agree with. 

The animosity going into this match, the match didn't relate to that at all. Nikki was steaming pissed at Brie, desperate for her independence. Brie was playing up the I get to make you my bitch. For all of that, we didn't get a bitch fight in their match. But here's your mistake. You're blaming Nikki and Brie for that. They only do what the match script tells them. And that's what we're grading them on. That isn't their fault. That's the booker (not booker T, the WWE match booker) The guy who draws up how this match is going to go. 

As for the crowd. You can't use that. NXT is shot at Full Sails for weeks. That is hometown advantage, they've developed a relationship with that audience. And you're comparing an NXT title match vs a sister vs sister rivalry. That's just not a great a example. But a good post bro. That I will give you. Finally someone defended a point.


----------



## Ghost of Wrestling (Jul 28, 2012)

K4L318 said:


> HBK3:16 I'll get to you. Because I agree with some of what you said.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is why people dont agree with you.
You attack other Divas, but keep making excuse for the Bella Twins.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

HBK 3:16 said:


> AJ is not really a face she's honestly a tweener through and through, so she isn't meant to be all cuddly and sweet and sugar all the time you know; she is bitchy at times and nice at others. Her character tows the line on the face/heel spectrum as any good tweener should. And Paige has only turned once on the main roster, so she is irrelevant in that regard.
> 
> As for Nikki, the Instagram/Twitter posts are also irrelevant, because the only thing you need to point too in regards to her is that Smackdown promo; she's supposed to be a vindictive heel yet goes out and cuts a promo about how hard she works and how much she loves the kid? It was such a babyface promo that the E had to edit it, that is the definition of character flip-flopping.


Tweener is an IWC term for faces that go after other faces or heels that go after other heels. Its either heel or face no in between, in AJs case its just a matter of WWE wanting AJ to always appear better than everyone else. She doesn't just win matches she beats her partner down afterwards or gets to cut cool promos with swear words. But if AJ is a tweener why cant Nikki be as well? Its fine for AJ to be a heelish face but Nikki cant be a faceish heel? Or just a heel trying to undermine AJs good girl stick by bragging about how she's a better role model?

Bella haters analyze every single little thing to use against them, and completely ignore when all the other wrestlers do those things?

AJ is meant to be a role model/nerd/face for everyone to cheer yet she's running around bragging about herself, putting everyone else down and calling other women sluts. You cant dispute that, cant pretend oh only Nikki shows those sort of flaws.


----------



## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

K4L318 said:


> you made one good point. One good point. Which I 100% agree with.
> 
> The animosity going into this match, the match didn't relate to that at all. Nikki was steaming pissed at Brie, desperate for her independence. Brie was playing up the I get to make you my bitch. For all of that, we didn't get a bitch fight in their match. But here's your mistake. You're blaming Nikki and Brie for that. They only do what the match script tells them. And that's what we're grading them on. That isn't their fault. That's the booker (not booker T, the WWE match booker) The guy who draws up how this match is going to go.


Fair enough, I suppose it's a bit unfair to really blame Brie and Nikki too much for that, cause even the greatest talents in the business can not always turn chicken shit into well cooked chicken pot pie if the material is just that bad. 



K4L318 said:


> As for the crowd. You can't use that. NXT is shot at Full Sails for weeks. That is hometown advantage, they've developed a relationship with that audience. And you're comparing an NXT title match vs a sister vs sister rivalry. That's just not a great a example. But a good post bro. That I will give you. Finally someone defended a point.


Fair enough, I admitted in my post that it was unfair to really compare the crowds due to how loyal the NXT fanbase is, but I went ahead and did it anyway just for the sake of completeness regarding my comparison; but you are still right in regards to it not being that great of an example. 

Either way however, I greatly appreciate that you cared enough to listen to my points and discuss it in a civil and calm manner, even if I don't necessarily agree with you on things it's always refreshing to have a decent conversation about things; so kudos to you that. :clap


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

Ghost of Wrestling said:


> This is why people dont agree with you.
> You attack other Divas, but keep making excuse for the Bella Twins.


Because it's true. Nikki was right there waiting for the spot. 

The other one obviously was Cameron. Stop bitching when you see a point actually defended. Which is more than I can for most here. Exception of HBK3:16 who actually stepped up and made a point.


----------



## SUPAH STRONG STYLE (Feb 5, 2013)

Why is this thread still going?

Why are people so against Nikki Bella when this is more creative's fault than anything else?

What made AJ Lee's reign so much better?

Why is PeoplePower trying to say Paige's character has been inconsistent when A. It has been. B. Even if there was to be any sort of issue with her character, it's again at creative. 

When will AJ marks and Bella marks agree to get along and hate the true enemy? The script.

FIND OUT NEXT TIME, ON THE NEXT EPISODE OF

DRAGON

BALL

Z

On a serious note: As something I just read? Yeah, you can compare Brie vs Nikki's match to any NXT match. It's not about "well, the crowd has an advantage".

It's the fact people just don't genuinely give a single shit about The Bella Twins.

Never have.

Never will.

I can admit that Nikki has improved. Her mic skills are still *terrible* [I typed out tremendous as first.]. When they're in the ring together, it's fucking awful. 

The crowd will NEVER give a fuck, especially when they're now more vocal about Rae, Nattie, Paige, AJ, and Emma. Only time they're vocal for either Bella is the "YES" chants. Self explanatory. 

You can hate it, but it's just how it is until they stop being boring.

And where as John Morrison could still get a reaction because he was fun to watch?

The Bellas, while average in the ring? Still don't do anything :mark: worthy.

Therefore, it's not about being at Full Sail. It's fully about charisma, how much creative cares, and the talent themselves. Always has been.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

Kabraxal said:


> Can you define her role though... for the most part, yet. She is an arrogant, bored, loner sick of many of the divas around her. When she does something in the ring, that is still the core. It's not just about heel/face, but the actual core. Austin wasn't a traditional face, but he had a defined and set role that he used in everything he did.
> 
> Paige took time and is still refining her role on the main roster. The reason she is getting time from many fans is because most of her fans came with her from NXT and saw someone that had established a character and a role and built everything around it. The anti-diva role in NXT was very defined and it is still confusing to why she was only starting to get that back recently. Should have debuted with it.
> 
> ...


I notice you didn't use any of the 100 awful Paige/AJ matches as your example. Cant bitch out the Bellas for something that even women like Paige and AJ aren't doing. Where was the pshycology in their sloppy matches? Where was all the anger in the feud when they were busying lezzing out for an entire match?

Someone said it before but the anti Bella marks are just like the people you're trying to ridicule. None of you can accept anything negative about Paige/AJ and only have negative things to say about the Bellas. So get off the high horses.


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

HBK 3:16 said:


> Fair enough, I suppose it's a bit unfair to really blame Brie and Nikki too much for that, cause even the greatest talents in the business can not always turn chicken shit into well cooked chicken pot pie if the material is just that bad.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We're all here making wrestling points. Some real, some bias. I admire your courage on that part. It was a well done explanation to something I didn't consider until now. :clap


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

PeoplePowerEra said:


> The fact that you're trying to justify Paige's lack of a consistent character invalidates all your claims about Nikki's character. Can you even properly define Paige's character? I don't even think WWE has a clear definition of what Paige is. Is she heel or face? If her feud with AJ ended 2 months ago why is she still borrowing traits that she initially used to mock AJ as part of her character now? Is she a lesbian? Is she an "anti-diva"? So why is she on Total Divas? Paige has no defined character.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Reading comprehension... I said I was chosing that match because I have no bias towards the performers that can be pointed at and claimed was the reason. And I don't think it was the best women's match. Natty/Charlotte and Paige/Emma were better to me, but then that's like choosing between Zayne/Cesaro and Zayne/Neville.

And what my purpose is, is not to say "they weren't as good as this so they suck" but to showcase what most here admit was a fundamentally sound match to give good examples of psychology. If you want, I'll go Kait/AJ or Paige/Emma happily because they are just as fundamentally sound. 

This is about showing the "why" someone is doing something or the fluidity of transitions between moments to where it feels natural. If you really like, I'll take the time (I have a vacation, I love wrestling and talking about psychology so sue me...) and do all three of the above and then three Bella matches if you fucking want just to show you how their basic understanding of wrestling fundamentals does not even begin to measure up. I could even take the SVS match earlier on the card and pick out Natty and Paige and compare what they do to the other women in that very match and why they were highly praised despite most of the match being a joke. Psychology is fairly clean cut when you get down to it... and I'll admit, it's something that is in short supply in the "A shows" of the WWE right now. 

It's popular to trash the "haters" here with flinging "you're irrational!" type statements. But believe me, I came to dislike the Bellas because they are very much like a John Cena.... they do things in the ring without rhyme or reason and it drives me nuts. And I'll say this right now... unless Cena has a muzzle in an in ring general, you aren't getting a good match out of him. And you aren't getting psychology period. He doesn't know the why of a move or how to sell. I'll take being forced to watch 3 full hours of the Bellas wrestling over Cena any god damn day.

Character/roles/psychology.. the story of the match: that is wrestling and that is why I watch. So anyone that can't get these down enough so the reason I'm booing them or "hating" on them is because they are good at what they do? I'm going to call them out.


----------



## Ghost of Wrestling (Jul 28, 2012)

JD said:


> When will AJ marks and Bella marks agree to get along and hate the true enemy? The script.
> 
> 
> On a serious note: As something I just read? Yeah, you can compare Brie vs Nikki's match to any NXT match. It's not about "well, the crowd has an advantage".
> ...


This


----------



## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

K4L318 said:


> We're all here making wrestling points. Some real, some bias. I admire your courage on that part. It was a well done explanation to something I didn't consider until now. :clap


True that, at the end of the day I suppose we are all really just all wrestling fans debating wrestling points; we all have that same passion for the business and our favorites. And as I have learned in my time here very quickly that passion can lead to fairly nasty arguments thanks in part to admittedly defensive nature that some wrestling fans possess about their favorites.

I admit that I haven't been the easiest to discuss a point with regarding the Divas at all really, and I apologize for that, but I really just at my core want to see the division succeed so badly; hell even _I_ want the Bella's to continue improving as they have been if it means the betterment of the division. That's all I want, and is also why I tend to be overly critical about a lot of things; perhaps even too critical at times admittedly.

Overall however, I appreciate your civility and respectful tone and the fact that you took the time and effort to engage in a real debate with me, that I feel is the most respectful thing anyone can at least do even if they don't necessarily agree with everything someone says, so I have to give huge props for that; and at the end of the day I feel that both of us have learned something from this discussion. :agree:


----------



## Ghost of Wrestling (Jul 28, 2012)

HBK 3:16 said:


> True that, at the end of the day I suppose we are all really just all wrestling fans debating wrestling points; we all have that same passion for the business and our favorites. And as I have learned in my time here very quickly that passion can lead to fairly nasty arguments thanks in part to admittedly defensive nature that some wrestling fans possess about their favorites.
> 
> I admit that I haven't been the easiest to discuss a point with regarding the Divas at all really, and I apologize for that, but I really just at my core want to see the division succeed so badly; hell even _I_ want the Bella's to continue improving as they have been if it means the betterment of the division. That's all I want, and is also why I tend to be overly critical about a lot of things; perhaps even too critical at times admittedly.
> 
> Overall however, I appreciate your civility and respectful tone and the fact that you took the time and effort to engage in a real debate with me, that I feel is the most respectful thing anyone can at least do even if they don't necessarily agree with everything someone says, so I have to give huge props for that; and at the end of the day I feel that both of us have learned something from this discussion. :agree:


:clap


----------



## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

JD said:


> On a serious note: As something I just read? Yeah, you can compare Brie vs Nikki's match to any NXT match. It's not about "well, the crowd has an advantage".


somewhat agree.



> It's the fact people just don't genuinely give a single shit about The Bella Twins.


That's usually what happens when you had no direction given to you for years and now do.



> Never have.


not really.


> Never will.


obviously false. All you have to do is look at SmackDown this past week to see that.



> I can admit that Nikki has improved. Her mic skills are still *terrible* [I typed out tremendous as first.]. When they're in the ring together, it's fucking awful.


The Twins together have no real heel booking. That's on WWE. Nikki has managed to get over with bad booking.



> The crowd will NEVER give a fuck, especially when they're now more vocal about Rae, Nattie, Paige, AJ, and Emma. Only time they're vocal for either Bella is the "YES" chants. Self explanatory.


No offense but they don't really give a fuck or get vocal about anybody not named. I mean Paige a few times. AJ's crowd is even dying. I mean look when she ddt'd Brie, they wanted to boo her and didn't. SmackDown heel Nikki drew more cheers than AJ on that standoff. 



> You can hate it, but it's just how it is until they stop being boring.


Obviously they aren't so boring now.



> And where as John Morrison could still get a reaction because he was fun to watch?


agreed.



> The Bellas, while average in the ring? Still don't do anything :mark: worthy.


No diva does. Nikki's rack attack and Paige's STO is the only thing they've really marked for. That's just going to grow.



> Therefore, it's not about being at Full Sail. It's fully about charisma, how much creative cares, and the talent themselves. Always has been.


It actually is partly with Full Sails. The case in point Sami Zayn went to UK with WWE, he had a triple threat that got no reaction because the fans didn't know him. Full Sails is home. It's like Nitro or NWA or ECW having their home field advantage. You're from the area, you do things in the community, it's college kids with cheap tickets and 1/4 of wrestling fans. There an Adam Rose can be over, there an Emma can get over. Look at WWE right now. Emma hasn't been booked completely horrid, fans literally can't stand that girl or her music.


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## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

HBK 3:16 said:


> True that, at the end of the day I suppose we are all really just all wrestling fans debating wrestling points; we all have that same passion for the business and our favorites. And as I have learned in my time here very quickly that passion can lead to fairly nasty arguments thanks in part to admittedly defensive nature that some wrestling fans possess about their favorites.
> 
> I admit that I haven't been the easiest to discuss a point with regarding the Divas at all really, and I apologize for that, but I really just at my core want to see the division succeed so badly; hell even _I_ want the Bella's to continue improving as they have been if it means the betterment of the division. That's all I want, and is also why I tend to be overly critical about a lot of things; perhaps even too critical at times admittedly.
> 
> Overall however, I appreciate your civility and respectful tone and the fact that you took the time and effort to engage in a real debate with me, that I feel is the most respectful thing anyone can at least do even if they don't necessarily agree with everything someone says, so I have to give huge props for that; and at the end of the day I feel that both of us have learned something from this discussion. :agree:


damn I'm gonna have to take your smark quote out of my sig now ain't I? We got somewhere tonight. I'm glad to see that and in the end that's all we want for the product to gain attention, passion and growth. And for this division not to fall back into the 1-2 min. per show division, a division where multiple rivalries can happen and fan investment is not purely hated on. :agree:


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## PeoplePowerEra (Nov 21, 2013)

Kabraxal said:


> If you want, I'll go Kait/AJ or Paige/Emma happily because they are just as fundamentally sound.


How about you compare Charlotte vs Natalya to Paige vs Tamina? It's the same logic. If you want to make a real comparison that's actually fair and unbiased you will make sure that the matches are of equal time, equal story, and equal opportunity. You don't compare CM Punk vs John Cena MITB '11 to Daniel Bryan vs Kane SS '12. Why are you so afraid of comparing Brie vs Nikki to AJ vs Paige from that same night? Or their Battleground match that got more time? You won't make those comparisons because they won't benefit you as much. You absolutely have to compare them to a 3-4 star match to make your point because you can't make that same point by comparing them to an equal level match.



> I came to dislike the Bellas because they are very much like a John Cena.... they do things in the ring without rhyme or reason and it drives me nuts. Character/roles/psychology.. the story of the match: that is wrestling and that is why I watch. So anyone that can't get these down enough so the reason I'm booing them or "hating" on them is because they are good at what they do? I'm going to call them out.


This is contradicted by the fact that you're defending Paige. You can name 2-3 Paige matches that had any rhyme or reason, the rest of them have no flow. Even the way she tries to move her opponent around to get them in position for one of her awkward signatures makes no sense. The sequence that she executes moves is not consistent. There's plenty wrong with Paige but you'll of course ignore all of those flaws and refuse to actually address any of them. Notice how you haven't even tried to touch any of the Paige arguments. You keep bitching about people dodging your arguments yet you can't respond to any yourself.


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## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

K4L318 said:


> damn I'm gonna have to take your smark quote out of my sig now ain't I? We got somewhere tonight. I'm glad to see that and in the end that's all we want for the product to gain attention, passion and growth. And for this division not to fall back into the 1-2 min. per show division, a division where multiple rivalries can happen and fan investment is not purely hated on. :agree:


Haha yeah I guess we did get somewhere didn't we? . 

But yeah, I think at the end of the day no matter who you mark out for or who you don't, we all as wrestling fans (and as Divas fans in this particular case) pretty want the same basic things overall, a good, entertaining, coherent, well written and well booked overall product being number one of course, and secondly as fans or supporters of these talented women for the division as a whole to finally be treated seriously as it rightly deserves, for it grow and flourish into what it can truly be; that of course being what NXT clearly shows week in and week out. A division and a product equal to and just as good as pretty much anything produced by their male counterparts, a division where wrestling actually matters and where these girls get the time to showcase their immense in ring talent and not just merely act as eye candy for higher management bosses or those perverted fans who only care about them for their looks, and a division with as you said; multiple meaningful well written feuds that create a complete product that can make the fans care and draw them in. 

In the end we all the want same things, so we just need to continue to support these girls week in and week out, never let up the support ever.


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## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

PeoplePowerEra said:


> How about you compare Charlotte vs Natalya to Paige vs Tamina? It's the same logic. If you want to make a real comparison that's actually fair and unbiased you will make sure that the matches are of equal time, equal story, and equal opportunity. You don't compare CM Punk vs John Cena MITB '11 to Daniel Bryan vs Kane SS '12. Why are you so afraid of comparing Brie vs Nikki to AJ vs Paige from that same night? Or their Battleground match that got more time? You won't make those comparisons because they won't benefit you as much. You absolutely have to compare them to a 3-4 star match to make your point because you can't make that same point by comparing them to an equal level match.
> 
> 
> 
> This is contradicted by the fact that you're defending Paige. You can name 2-3 Paige matches that had any rhyme or reason, the rest of them have no flow. Even the way she tries to move her opponent around to get them in position for one of her awkward signatures makes no sense. The sequence that she executes moves is not consistent. There's plenty wrong with Paige but you'll of course ignore all of those flaws and refuse to actually address any of them. Notice how you haven't even tried to touch any of the Paige arguments. You keep bitching about people dodging your arguments yet you can't respond to any yourself.


I can name Paige matches though... big difference from the Bellas. 

However, to your first point.. I am trying to take a longer Bella match and put it up against a match that is comparable in length. So, Charlotte/Sasha or Paige/Emma would more likely pair up with Brie/Steph (one of the two that is generally touted as good by a few here) or Kait/AJ and the Bella/Bella match that ran a fairly similar amount of time. It's a more equal comparison that way. 

If you want me to put up two 5 minute matches I guess I could... but that would be little better than posting a video of clips edited together from different matches. I can name very few great 5 minute matches from anyone... actually, I don't know if there is a single great match at 5 minutes. Usually those are, at best, "well... it was great for 5 minutes but why wasn't it longer?" matches.


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## Ghost of Wrestling (Jul 28, 2012)

HBK 3:16 said:


> Haha yeah I guess we did get somewhere didn't we? .
> 
> But yeah, I think at the end of the day no matter who you mark out for or who you don't, we all as wrestling fans (and as Divas fans in this particular case) pretty want the same basic things overall, a good, entertaining, coherent, well written and well booked overall product being number one of course, and secondly as fans or supporters of these talented women for the division as a whole to finally be treated seriously as it rightly deserves, for it grow and flourish into what it can truly be; that of course being what NXT clearly shows week in and week out. A division and a product equal to and just as good as pretty much anything produced by their male counterparts, a division where wrestling actually matters and where these girls get the time to showcase their immense in ring talent and not just merely act as eye candy for higher management bosses or those perverted fans who only care about them for their looks, and a division with as you said; multiple meaningful well written feuds that create a complete product that can make the fans care and draw them in.
> 
> *In the end we all the want same things, so we just need to continue to support these girls week in and week out, never let up the support ever.*


Nah~ We want to see them beat the hell out of each other, pull one another through Tables, jump from Ladders to hit an elbow then smack their butts with Chairs, Stairs too if necessary...
Prove to all that if men can do it , women can do it too.

TLC + Stairs


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## Buffy The Vampire Slayer (May 31, 2011)

I'm surprised that this thread is still alive.


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## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

Ghost of Wrestling said:


> Nah~ We want to see them beat the hell out of each other, pull one another through Tables, jump from Ladders to hit an elbow then smack their butts with Chairs, Stairs too if necessary...
> Prove to all that if men can do it , women can do it too.
> 
> TLC + Stairs


Lmfao, that'd be awesome; I'd love to see the women be able to go at it fully in the ring like the men. But I doubt the E would ever allow it, through I really see no reason why women ladder matches or table matches can't be a thing if we are talking about gimmick matches.



BtheVampireSlayer said:


> I'm surprised that this thread is still alive.


To be fair things have turned for a better course here.


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## PeoplePowerEra (Nov 21, 2013)

Kabraxal said:


> I can name Paige matches though... big difference from the Bellas.
> 
> However, to your first point.. I am trying to take a longer Bella match and put it up against a match that is comparable in length. So, Charlotte/Sasha or Paige/Emma would more likely pair up with Brie/Steph (one of the two that is generally touted as good by a few here) or Kait/AJ and the Bella/Bella match that ran a fairly similar amount of time. It's a more equal comparison that way.
> 
> If you want me to put up two 5 minute matches I guess I could... but that would be little better than posting a video of clips edited together from different matches. I can name very few great 5 minute matches from anyone... actually, I don't know if there is a single great match at 5 minutes. Usually those are, at best, "well... it was great for 5 minutes but why wasn't it longer?" matches.


What is the comparison though? Charlotte vs Sasha was a 12 minute fast paced back and forth wrestling match with lots of action and athletic spots, Paige vs Emma was a 15 minute technical wrestling match, while Brie vs Stephanie was a slow paced basic story of the underdog face overcoming the evil heel. You can't compare those matches because there's nothing to compare, they're completely different matches with completely different goals. You can compare them if you want but it's not going to prove anything because there's no legitimate comparison.

AJ vs Kaitlyn is at least a similar story but they still benefited more from the extra time. One thing The Bellas match was missing was more time to tell the story more properly because the lack of time forced them to rush it. AJ vs Kaitlyn didn't have that problem so it has a bit of an unfair advantage in that aspect. That's why the most fair comparisons are of the AJ vs Paige matches because those all ran around the same amount of time with equal story and opportunity. But then if you did that you would probably find out that The Bella match was better in all those areas of comparisons and you wouldn't want to admit that would you? So you go with matches that clearly have more advantages.


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## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

Have to say watching some of these videos, the Anti-Diva gimmick has always been such a farce thats based on Paige being pale and raven haired. She pulls hair a lot and wrestles like the stereotypical Diva.


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## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

HBK 3:16 said:


> Lmfao, that'd be awesome; I'd love to see the women be able to go at it fully in the ring like the men. But I doubt the E would ever allow it, through I really see no reason why women ladder matches or table matches can't be a thing if we are talking about gimmick matches.
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair things have turned for a better course here.


What I need to see is Nikki powerbombing AJ on the spanish announce desk after winning. That's what I need. To get this story going or ending in line.


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## Impeccable Sin (Aug 28, 2013)

A Maryse Evamas said:


> Tweener is an IWC term for faces that go after other faces or heels that go after other heels. Its either heel or face no in between, in AJs case its just a matter of WWE wanting AJ to always appear better than everyone else. She doesn't just win matches she beats her partner down afterwards or gets to cut cool promos with swear words. But if AJ is a tweener why cant Nikki be as well? Its fine for AJ to be a heelish face but Nikki cant be a faceish heel? Or just a heel trying to undermine AJs good girl stick by bragging about how she's a better role model?
> 
> Bella haters analyze every single little thing to use against them, and completely ignore when all the other wrestlers do those things?
> 
> AJ is meant to be a role model/nerd/face for everyone to cheer yet she's running around bragging about herself, putting everyone else down and calling other women sluts. You cant dispute that, cant pretend oh only Nikki shows those sort of flaws.



Tweeners are chosen by the fans, not WWE.


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## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

Randumo24 said:


> Tweeners are chosen by the fans, not WWE.


Exactly. No one is meant to be a tweener, but in the process of WWE's AJ > everyone else booking she dubbed a tweener by fans because she beats everyone regardless of heel/face dynamic. Tweeners are just faces with an edge. So people hating on Nikki for not playing the heel role to a T yet praising AJ for not playing the face role to a T is ridiculous double standards.


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## Ghost of Wrestling (Jul 28, 2012)

K4L318 said:


> What I need to see is Nikki powerbombing AJ on the spanish announce desk after winning. That's what I need. To get this story going or ending in line.


And I thought we can close this thread with class.



A Maryse Evamas said:


> Exactly. No one is meant to be a tweener, but in the process of WWE's AJ > everyone else booking she dubbed a tweener by fans because she beats everyone regardless of heel/face dynamic. Tweeners are just faces with an edge. So people hating on Nikki for not playing the heel role to a T yet praising AJ for not playing the face role to a T is ridiculous double standards.


Nah~Nikki played Tweener too long, she make fans hate her when she is a Face. That's why fans dont allow her play a tweener anymore XD


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## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

Ghost of Wrestling said:


> And I thought we can close this thread with class.
> 
> 
> 
> Nah~Nikki played Tweener too long, she make people hate her when she is a Face. That''s why fans dont allow her play a tweener anymore XD


When did Nikki ever play tweener? When she was a straight up babyface early on? When she was a heel at the end of the Bellas first run? When she returned as a heel? When she was a face all about getting sympathy as Stephanie made her life a living hell? Or when she's a heel right now?

When was she a tweener? As far as fans hating her as a face, sure the neckbeards might have complained about Diva workrate and all that nonsense but the casual fans always liked the Bellas as faces. Thats like saying Ambrose is a tweener right now because a decent portion of the IWC dont like him.


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## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Gone on far and long enough. Jeez.


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