# Riho Says AEW Did Their First Intergender Match on Jericho's Cruise



## Whoanma (Apr 5, 2016)




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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Whoanma said:


>


*I'm truly interested. Riho hasn't impressed me as women's champion, but this could be huge in getting WWE to follow suit. You and I both want to see Charlotte wrestle men, so I'm willing to support whoever I need to to make that happen.*


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## Brodus Clay (Jan 6, 2012)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *And it might be aired on AEW Dark
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1220383142927749120*


Eeeeh she looks cute there.


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## Whoanma (Apr 5, 2016)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I'm truly interested. Riho hasn't impressed me as women's champion, but this could be huge in getting WWE to follow suit. You and I both want to see Charlotte wrestle men, so I'm willing to support whoever I need to to make that happen.*


I’d pay to watch Charlotte beating the bejesus out of Rollins, that’d be fun. Imagine all the butthurt if she were to win the WWE or Universal championships. :ha :ha :ha


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Not a fan of intergender wrestling; the women have everything to gain and nothing to lose, while the men have everything to lose and nothing to gain.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Is there some group of people who are wanting to see men beat up women? The sports based presentation thing is just completely out the door now huh?


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## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

Not into that. Don't see the point. If you personally like, God be with you.


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Lheurch said:


> Is there some group of people who are wanting to see men beat up women? The sports based presentation thing is just completely out the door now huh?


*Rhea Ripley, Charlotte, and Bianca Bel-Air can have believable matches and win against more than half of the men in WWE. 

Kris Statlander, Big Swole, Nyla, and Shida can toss around 80% of the little men in AEW. 

There are plenty of believable scenarios. This isn't The Kat vs Big Show.
*


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## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Rhea Ripley, Charlotte, and Bianca Bel-Air can have believable matches and win against more than half of the men in WWE.
> 
> Kris Statlander, Big Swole, Nyla, and Shida can toss around 80% of the little men in AEW.
> 
> There are plenty of believable scenarios. This isn't The Kat vs Big Show.*


I'm sorry. I don't buy it.All the strong women you mentioned would be average dudes(and I'm being generous.) No beating half of the male roster.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Rhea Ripley, Charlotte, and Bianca Bel-Air can have believable matches and win against more than half of the men in WWE.
> 
> Kris Statlander, Big Swole, Nyla, and Shida can toss around 80% of the little men in AEW.
> 
> There are plenty of believable scenarios. This isn't The Kat vs Big Show.*


I would prefer not to see men hit women. They can no doubt have a good wrestling match since it is a work, but in real life it just would not happen. Sports based presentation. Show it to me in MMA first. If that happened, imagine the protests.


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## Undertaker23RKO (Jun 11, 2011)

Intergender wrestling is stupid. It's not believable at all and makes the men look terrible.


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## Scissor Me Daddy-O!! (Apr 13, 2011)

Lheurch said:


> Is there some group of people who are wanting to see men beat up women? The sports based presentation thing is just completely out the door now huh?


Is there some group of people who refuse to let women do what they want? I agree the sports based presentation is either done with or being done terrible, but if a lady wants to fake wrestle a guy and he agrees to it, saying "no, I don't want to see that so no one else should" is a restrictive mindset for no cause.



BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *There are plenty of believable scenarios. This isn't The Kat vs Big Show.*


Yet, people only ever bring up the smallest female and the biggest male for an example in defense against inter-gender matches. 

If you can enjoy Rey Mysterio matches, then you can enjoy inter-gender matches. I admit they're likely to suck, but there's a way to book any match in the world.


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## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

All Elite Wanking said:


> Is there some group of people who refuse to let women do what they want? I agree the sports based presentation is either done with or being done terrible, but if a lady wants to fake wrestle a guy and he agrees to it, saying "no, I don't want to see that so no one else should" is a restrictive mindset for no cause.
> 
> 
> Yet, people only ever bring up the smallest female and the biggest male for an example in defense against inter-gender matches.
> ...



I've never been into matches where Rey fought the Big Show. So let that say what it will.

Anyway to your first point, no one is saying people can't do what they want. On that same token people have the right to not be into it without it being controversial. There's nothing restrictive about liking what you like.


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## Rozzop (Aug 26, 2019)

If you can enjoy Rey Mysterio matches, then you can enjoy inter-gender matches. I admit they're likely to suck, but there's a way to book any match in the world.
[/QUOTE]
You telling me you cant tell the difference between Rey Mysterio and Becky Lynch? 

Like. Seriously? 

I mean, I know the dudes in a mask. But still..... 

Have you heard of testoterone?


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

All Elite Wanking said:


> Is there some group of people who refuse to let women do what they want? I agree the sports based presentation is either done with or being done terrible, but if a lady wants to fake wrestle a guy and he agrees to it, saying "no, I don't want to see that so no one else should" is a restrictive mindset for no cause.
> 
> 
> Yet, people only ever bring up the smallest female and the biggest male for an example in defense against inter-gender matches.
> ...


Other than your outliers like Chyna, who would be believable? We are not talking about a woman being able to beat up an average guy. That happens all the time in life. We are talking about people who are supposed to be elite athletes. It is just is not realistic.


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

DOTL said:


> I'm sorry. I don't buy it.All the strong women you mentioned would be average dudes(and I'm being generous.) No beating half of the male roster.


*Charlotte can squat against a wall with Andrade standing on her knees. Rhea squats 275. Bianca is stronger than Rhea and her weightlifting records haven't been touched in 3 years. The Rock weighs 275. If you think these women would struggle against the skinny 5'9 Cruiserweights of today, simply because they're women, you're being intentionally sexist.*


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## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Charlotte can squat against a wall with Andrade standing on her knees. Rhea squats 275. Bianca is stronger than Rhea and her weightlifting records haven't been touched in 3 years. The Rock weighs 275. If you think these women would struggle against the skinny 5'9 Cruiserweights of today, simply because they're women, you're being intentionally sexist.*


There's a difference between lifting someone and fighting them. What do you think a dude would do in a combat situation? Just sit there? Please spare me this biology is sexist stuff. I don't feel like it today.


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## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

El Hammerstone said:


> Not a fan of intergender wrestling; the women have everything to gain and nothing to lose, while the men have everything to lose and nothing to gain.


To many people who seriously want it at all levels, this is a feature and not a bug. It might be ok for comedy/non serious stuff, but once you make it serious you've screwed the guys.

If they beat up a woman, they look like an asshole. If they lose, they look like a chump. There is simply NO upside.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

The minute you have a woman kick a man’s ass in a ring, your company is dead at worst. At best, that male performer is done working as a believable champion.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Charlotte can squat against a wall with Andrade standing on her knees. Rhea squats 275. Bianca is stronger than Rhea and her weightlifting records haven't been touched in 3 years. The Rock weighs 275. If you think these women would struggle against the skinny 5'9 Cruiserweights of today, simply because they're women, you're being intentionally sexist.*


Mark Henry can squat 1000 pounds. Is he going to beat an elite MMA fighter? Ronda can scoop slam HHH. Weightlifting does not equal ability to beat someone in a fight.


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Charlotte can squat against a wall with Andrade standing on her knees. Rhea squats 275. Bianca is stronger than Rhea and her weightlifting records haven't been touched in 3 years. The Rock weighs 275. If you think these women would struggle against the skinny 5'9 Cruiserweights of today, simply because they're women, you're being intentionally sexist.*


Nothing sexist about it, it's a biological thing. Look at the powerlifting records, look at the running records, look at the long jump records; there's a reason that pro sports have men's and women's leagues, hell the US Women's soccer team (#1 in the world) lost against a team of 15 year old boys. 

If you were to have a 5'9" cruiserweight lose a match to a woman of similar stature, what do you think the perception would be if that 5'9" cruiserweight were then matched up in a feud against a guy who is nearly 100 pounds heavier? Unless you have the bigger guy squash the cruiserweight, you'd then have people believing that the aforementioned woman could stand toe to toe with this bigger guy. It's fucking silly. Call it sexist if you want, but I call it biology.


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

DOTL said:


> There's a difference between lifting someone and fighting them. What do you think a dude would do in a combat situation? Just sit there? Please spare me this biology is sexist stuff. I don't feel like it today.


*Too bad this isn't combat. AEW is full of choreographed gymnastics and you're acting like it's a life or death situation. In real life, Shayna Baszler is shitting on everyone except Brock, so that's a terrible comparison.*


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## Rozzop (Aug 26, 2019)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Charlotte can squat against a wall with Andrade standing on her knees. Rhea squats 275. Bianca is stronger than Rhea and her weightlifting records haven't been touched in 3 years. The Rock weighs 275. If you think these women would struggle against the skinny 5'9 Cruiserweights of today, simply because they're women, you're being intentionally sexist.*


Why do you intentionally forget about testosterone whilst pushing your narrative? 

What you said is ridiculous and goes against any form of common sense or biology.


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## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

Considering AEWs roster is physically smaller guys that other companies it would be more believable here. That being said Nia Jaxx vs. Braun could be entertaining.
If Marko was a heel they could have him do what Andy Kaufman did and challenge women, more believable a woman could beat him as they are all bigger than him, and he'd have to cheat to win.


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## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Too bad this isn't combat. AEW is full of choreographed gymnastics and you're acting like it's a life or death situation. In real life, Shayna Baszler is shitting on everyone except Brock, so that's a terrible comparison.*


You said that the three you mentioned should beat more than half the male WWE roster, which is ridiculous. 

I'm just going off of what you said.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Too bad this isn't combat. AEW is full of choreographed gymnastics and you're acting like it's a life or death situation. In real life, Shayna Baszler is shitting on everyone except Brock, so that's a terrible comparison.*


I do not want the choreographed gymnasts either. Why would you want to take something that already has that nonsense in it and make it even more laughable?


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Lheurch said:


> Mark Henry can squat 1000 pounds. Is he going to beat an elite MMA fighter? Ronda can scoop slam HHH. Weightlifting does not equal ability to beat someone in a fight.


*I'm sorry, who in AEW is a legit MMA fighter? You do realize this argument turns to shit when I point out that the actual MMA trained women in WWE would destroy the vast majority of men in AEW in a shoot, right?*


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## Rick Sanchez (Dec 30, 2012)

I don't really care about it. Stay in your own lane.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I'm sorry, who in AEW is a legit MMA fighter? You do realize this argument turns to shit when I point out that the actual MMA trained women in WWE would destroy the vast majority of men in AEW in a shoot, right?*


It is about maintaining credibility. You are basically burying the entire wrestling business if your argument is any MMA fighter can beat any wrestler in kayfabe. Why even have wrestling? Why do the women you mention even bother doing wrestling moves when they should just be striking and going for a quick submission? I mean he is just a WRESTLER, clearly he could not beat even the smallest MMA fighter, which may be true in most cases, but you completely bury kayfabe entirely by doing that. If you want to see the best shoot fighter, watch MMA. Wrestling is not that. Do you not see how you de-legitimatize almost your entire roster by making this argument?


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## taker1986 (Sep 14, 2016)

Don't like intergender wrestling. I don't mind having mixed tag matches but definitely not in singles.


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Rozzop said:


> Why do you intentionally forget about testosterone whilst pushing your narrative?
> 
> What you said is ridiculous and goes against any form of common sense or biology.


*I'm 5'11, Rhea is 5'7. Testosterone is not making me magically lift 300 or be physically stronger than her in any way. It's funny to see unathletic people talk like hormones are automatically going to save them from an ass whoopin. That argument only works if the male and female are of relatively equal strength, in which case the male wins. Marko Stunt isn't beating Rhea or Bianca in a shoot.*


Lheurch said:


> It is about maintaining credibility. You are basically burying the entire wrestling business if your argument is any MMA fighter can beat any wrestler in kayfabe. Why even have wrestling? Why do the women you mention even bother doing wrestling moves when they should just be striking and going for a quick submission? I mean he is just a WRESTLER, clearly he could not beat even the smallest MMA fighter, which may be true in most cases, but you completely bury kayfabe entirely by doing that. If you want to see the best shoot fighter, watch MMA. Wrestling is not that. Do you not see how you de-legitimatize almost your entire roster by making this argument?


*You've just made my argument for me. Wrestling is a work. YOU brought up realism. I mentioned those women being strong for the sake of suspension of disbelief. It's easier to imagine She-Hulk fight Wolverine than Harley Quinn fighting Superman. *


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I'm 5'11, Rhea is 5'7. Testosterone is not making me magically lift 300 or be physically stronger than her in any way. It's funny to see unathletic people talk like hormones are automatically going to save them from an ass whoopin. That argument only works if the male and female are of relatively equal strength, in which case the male wins. Marko Stunt isn't beating Rhea or Bianca in a shoot.*


Deadlifting and throwing a punch are not the same damn thing, otherwise we'd be seeing UFC's heavyweight division littered with competitors from World's Strongest Man competitions.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

According to the Big Show, John Cena is the strongest wrestler he knows. Guess he can legitimately beat Brock’s ass.

Stupid fucking argument.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

El Hammerstone said:


> Deadlifting and throwing a punch are not the same damn thing, otherwise we'd be seeing UFC's heavyweight division littered with competitors from World's Strongest Man competitions.


Arguments like the one you quoted makes me really wonder how old some of the people on here are.


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## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I'm 5'11, Rhea is 5'7. Testosterone is not making me magically lift 300 or be physically stronger than her in any way. It's funny to see unathletic people talk like hormones are automatically going to save them from an ass whoopin. That argument only works if the male and female are of relatively equal strength, in which case the male wins. Marko Stunt isn't beating Rhea or Bianca in a shoot.*


Think about what you’re saying. This isn’t about whether or not she can beat some random dude on the street who’s never seen a gym. We’re talking about other trained wrestlers.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

bdon said:


> Arguments like the one you quoted makes me really wonder how old some of the people on here are.


Yeah and we did see that in UFC 1. Guess what happened heh.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I'm 5'11, Rhea is 5'7. Testosterone is not making me magically lift 300 or be physically stronger than her in any way. It's funny to see unathletic people talk like hormones are automatically going to save them from an ass whoopin. That argument only works if the male and female are of relatively equal strength, in which case the male wins. Marko Stunt isn't beating Rhea or Bianca in a shoot.
> 
> You've just made my argument for me. Wrestling is a work. YOU brought up realism. I mentioned those women being strong for the sake of suspension of disbelief. It's easier to imagine She-Hulk fight Batman than Harley Quinn fighting Superman. *


This is about elite athlete vs elite athlete. Serena Williams will destroy any average male tennis player. She will beat zero males at the elite level. We are supposed to have the most elite athletes in the world here. If your argument is, eh our male wrestlers are just average guys, why would I care about them?

Marko Stunt is not beating anyone, ever. There are plenty of people in AEW that are not believable threats to anyone.


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

bdon said:


> According to the Big Show, John Cena is the strongest wrestler he knows. Guess he can legitimately beat Brock’s ass.
> 
> Stupid fucking argument.


*And what you're failing to understand is there's nothing legitimate about wrestling. This isn't MMA. All they need to do is be able to throw each other around and take pulled punches. Plenty of women in both companies can do that, so what exactly makes intergender matches unbelievable? *



Lheurch said:


> This is about elite athlete vs elite athlete. Serene Williams will destroy any average male tennis player. She will beat zero males at the elite level. We are supposed to have the most elite athletes in the world here. If your argument is, eh our male wrestlers are just average guys, why would I care about them?


*Serena faced Federer, a GOAT, in a mixed doubles match last year and the match was competitive. His serve is the only thing that overwhelmed her, but he has 11,000 career aces (third all time) against elite male talent, so that's nothing to be ashamed of. She can definitely beat a middling male pro tennis player.*



> Marko Stunt is not beating anyone, ever. There are plenty of people in AEW that are not believable threats to anyone.


*Which is why there should be no objections to them competing against women.*


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

bdon said:


> Arguments like the one you quoted makes me really wonder how old some of the people on here are.


It's not just here though, I've been seeing the whole "biology is sexist" argument everywhere these past few years; the second I dispute it, I apparently hate women.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Lheurch said:


> Yeah and we did see that in UFC 1. Guess what happened heh.


I’m not following. What happened in UFC 1? I’m assuming you’re talking about the big dude who got his shit rocked while trying to get up from the mat? Haha


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *And what you're failing to understand is there's nothing legitimate about wrestling. This isn't MMA. All they need to do is be able to throw each other around and take pulled punches. Plenty of women in both companies can do that, so what exactly makes intergender matches unbelievable? *


You really don’t see how you completely bury your fucking company by having a woman winning matches over men?

Ask Impact about the decision to put the belt on Tessa in a year’s time.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

bdon said:


> I’m not following. What happened in UFC 1? I’m assuming you’re talking about the big dude who got his shit rocked while trying to get up from the mat? Haha


Yes, exactly. It really pulled the rug out from the crowd that thought legit power lifting dudes had a chance against legit fighters.


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## Rozzop (Aug 26, 2019)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I'm 5'11, Rhea is 5'7. Testosterone is not making me magically lift 300 or be physically stronger than her in any way. It's funny to see unathletic people talk like hormones are automatically going to save them from an ass whoopin. That argument only works if the male and female are of relatively equal strength, in which case the male wins. Marko Stunt isn't beating Rhea or Bianca in a shoot.
> 
> You've just made my argument for me. Wrestling is a work. YOU brought up realism. I mentioned those women being strong for the sake of suspension of disbelief. It's easier to imagine She-Hulk fight Wolverine than Harley Quinn fighting Superman. *


So you use the most ridiculous looking male in the history of wrestling to prove your point.... 

You clearly dont understand the inate differences between men and women.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Serena faced Federer, a GOAT, in a mixed doubles match last year and the match was competitive. His serve is the only thing that overwhelmed her, but he has 11,000
> career aces (third all time) against elite male talent, so that's nothing to be ashamed of. She can definitely beat a middling male pro tennis player.*


Yes, she can beat middle of the road guys. I already said that. Not elite.



BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Which is why there should be no objections to them competing against women.*


OK, sure. We can agree that women can beat Marko Stunt.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Lheurch said:


> Yes, exactly. It really pulled the rug out from the crowd that thought legit power lifting dudes had a chance against legit fighters.


Shit was wild. I must have been 10 or so at the time, maybe a bit older, and as a huge fan of the movie “Bloodsport” I had to see this UFC shit.

I was at my older cousin’s house, and you should have seen his parents falling over themselves to change the channel. They’d just got pissed at my granny a year earlier over her buying us both Mortal Kombat (my parents are far more lenient lol)

Great times watching cultural shifts. heh.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Funny enough, Jim Ross went off on how unrealistic and illogical intergender wrestling matches are on his podcast released today. Interesting timing.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

bdon said:


> Shit was wild. I must have been 10 or so at the time, maybe a bit older, and as a huge fan of the movie “Bloodsport” I had to see this UFC shit.
> 
> I was at my older cousin’s house, and you should have seen his parents falling over themselves to change the channel. They’d just got pissed at my granny a year earlier over her buying us both Mortal Kombat (my parents are far more lenient lol)
> 
> Great times watching cultural shifts. heh.


The first three or four UFC events were nuts. Pretty much everything was allowed. I remember Joe Son getting locked up and his opponent just repeatedly hitting him in the balls. I am surprised someone did not get killed.


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

A mixed match is not the same as an intergender match. Probably a tag match where the rules require same gender matchups as soon as they're tagged in


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

bdon said:


> The minute you have a woman kick a man’s ass in a ring, your company is dead at worst. At best, that male performer is done working as a believable champion.


I think Riho would whoop Marko Stunt in a real fight


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Geeee said:


> I think Riho would whoop Marko Stunt in a real fight


Yeah, I agree. Most of us are arguing about athletes at the elite level. Marko is not even an average dude.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Lheurch said:


> Yeah, I agree. Most of us are arguing about athletes at the elite level. Marko is not even an average dude.


Yeah. Show me a division of Marko Stunts who are under 140 pounds, and I’ll buy that a woman can win that men’s title.

The minute Charlotte starts kicking Rollins’s ass is the minute WWE is done.


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> OK, sure. We can agree that women can beat Marko Stunt.


Dude, I swear, in 10-15 years time there will be 3 foot tall wrestlers being hired with the backlash being responded to with "Well, Marko Stunt made it, so who are you to say this guy can't as well." People are already making excuses for Marko Stunt by using Rey Mysterio as an argument.

This is a big reason why the wrestling fanbase has been dwindling in recent years; because wrestling companies have taken to the mentality of "well it's wrestling, it's supposed to be stupid, so who gives a shit about conveying any sense of authenticity or realism", which results in the fans taking that same approach to viewing, and hence, neither the promotions nor the fans take it seriously and goofy concepts like Marko Stunt and women going toe to toe with top guys are welcomed as a result. I mean, a non wrestling fan is going to see things like this, roll their eyes, and change the channel; this is how the average person will respond to this mentality of "it's wrestling, so who the fuck cares".


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> Funny enough, Jim Ross went off on how unrealistic and illogical intergender wrestling matches are on his podcast released today. Interesting timing.


Hopefully the man can talk some sense into them if they are serious about going this route.


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

bdon said:


> Yeah. Show me a division of Marko Stunts who are under 140 pounds, and I’ll buy that a woman can win that men’s title.
> 
> The minute Charlotte starts kicking Rollins’s ass is the minute WWE is done.


So what's the limit? Because these things already happened.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Jericho has a great mind for the business, and he routinely goes back to arguing how people told he was too small. Then he met Mysterio. 

And that is his entire basis for defending Marko. This is Jericho, one of the 5-8 greatest wrestlers of all-time saying shit like this.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Geeee said:


> So what's the limit? Because these things already happened.


Catching someone off guard is one thing.

Doing it in a match will bury that male opponent. Ask Marc Mero about it.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

El Hammerstone said:


> Dude, I swear, in 10-15 years time there will be 3 foot tall wrestlers being hired with the backlash being responded to with "Well, Marko Stunt made it, so who are you to say this guy can't as well." People are already making excuses for Marko Stunt by using Rey Mysterio as an argument.
> 
> This is a big reason why the wrestling fanbase has been dwindling in recent years; because wrestling companies have taken to the mentality of "well it's wrestling, it's supposed to be stupid, so who gives a shit about conveying any sense of authenticity or realism", which results in the fans taking that same approach to viewing, and hence, neither the promotions nor the fans take it seriously and goofy concepts like Marko Stunt and women going toe to toe with top guys are welcomed as a result. I mean, a non wrestling fan is going to see things like this, roll their eyes, and change the channel; this is how the average person will respond to this mentality of "it's wrestling, so who the fuck cares".


"Your winner and NEWWWW AEW champion, ELLLLLLLL TORITO!!!

But seriously, who are you to doubt Marko Stunt?










Meltzer lost me a long time ago but comparing Stunt to Mysterio was just mind-numbing insanity. Mysterio is awesome, but I hated when he was in the ring with people like Big Show.

I really do not get it. Why do they want to watch a carny circus act? Like I said in many other posts, if they created a company called All Elite Gymnastics I would be cool with that, just not watch it. But they created a company called All Elite Wrestling and specifically promised a sports like presentation and that has certain connotations. I get there are several dozen people who want to go to a high school gym and watch people toss invisible hand grenades, sell for children's super kicks, and have women beat up men who are being presented as the best in their industry, but please do not call it wresting.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

And if HHH sold those punches, then he’s a fucking idiot. Rousey joined WWE on the heels of losing to Holms when the entire world began laughing at how Rhonda Had no clue how to throw a punch.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

bdon said:


> And if HHH sold those punches, then he’s a fucking idiot. Rousey joined WWE on the heels of losing to Holms when the entire world began laughing at how Rhonda Had no clue how to throw a punch.


Right, I was cool with her surprising him and slamming him through the table. I was even cool with her getting in those strikes because he was playing the overconfident heel who did not take her seriously so had no defense ready. That is telling a fun story. But after those unexpected shots, no way.


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## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

Geeee said:


> I think Riho would whoop Marko Stunt in a real fight


Funny comment, but in reality I bet Marko could kick her ass up and down the road.


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

bdon said:


> And if HHH sold those punches, then he’s a fucking idiot. Rousey joined WWE on the heels of losing to Holms when the entire world began laughing at how Rhonda Had no clue how to throw a punch.


I just watched it back and Rousey follows this up by countering an attempted HHH high knee into a fireman's carry, then Steph pulls HHH off of Rousey's shoulders and HHH takes a powder. Pretty embarrassing sequence for The Game LOL.


----------



## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

El Hammerstone said:


> Dude, I swear, in 10-15 years time there will be 3 foot tall wrestlers being hired with the backlash being responded to with "Well, Marko Stunt made it, so who are you to say this guy can't as well." People are already making excuses for Marko Stunt by using Rey Mysterio as an argument.
> 
> This is a big reason why the wrestling fanbase has been dwindling in recent years; because wrestling companies have taken to the mentality of "well it's wrestling, it's supposed to be stupid, so who gives a shit about conveying any sense of authenticity or realism", which results in the fans taking that same approach to viewing, and hence, neither the promotions nor the fans take it seriously and goofy concepts like Marko Stunt and women going toe to toe with top guys are welcomed as a result. *I mean, a non wrestling fan is going to see things like this, roll their eyes, and change the channel*; this is how the average person will respond to this mentality of "it's wrestling, so who the fuck cares".


No truer words.

That's the thing! We're not talking about what people say on a vocal level. We're talking about a subconscious distinction. When a woman slugs a guy in the ring people will not take the man seriously at all. I don't care what they say. When a man hits a woman it just looks wrong. If wrestling psychology is everything what does it say about a show's commitment to being a wrestling show when it disregards people's honest responses?


----------



## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

Geeee said:


> I just watched it back and Rousey follows this up by countering an attempted HHH high knee into a fireman's carry, then Steph pulls HHH off of Rousey's shoulders and HHH takes a powder. Pretty embarrassing sequence for The Game LOL.


It's SO FAKE and anybody watching can tell it. That is what pisses me off about this intergender push. You HAVE to maintain believability in some form for big matches. It has to suck you in. And if this push succeeds all of that is gone.


----------



## Chris JeriG.O.A.T (Jun 17, 2014)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *And what you're failing to understand is there's nothing legitimate about wrestling. This isn't MMA. All they need to do is be able to throw each other around and take pulled punches. Plenty of women in both companies can do that, so what exactly makes intergender matches unbelievable?
> 
> 
> 
> Serena faced Federer, a GOAT, in a mixed doubles match last year and the match was competitive. His serve is the only thing that overwhelmed her, but he has 11,000 career aces (third all time) against elite male talent, so that's nothing to be ashamed of. She can definitely beat a middling male pro tennis player.*


This is the problem with intergender sports, we want to see the elite vs the elite, why would anybody want to see an elite woman dominate an average man? And if the elite women go against average men and don't dominate they make their entire gender look bad. You think it was a good idea to put the US Women's Soccer team against teenage boys and lose? You think that helped people get excited for women's soccer? 

You want to see Charlotte, Rhea and Bianca beat up goofs like Adam Cole and Finn Balor but what happens when they go against Black, Owens, Joe, Montez, Murphy? Won't those guys careers be destroyed by losing to a woman?


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Sami Callihan may get a contract from someone for what he did for Tessa, but his career is done. DOA.


----------



## Scissor Me Daddy-O!! (Apr 13, 2011)

bdon said:


> The minute you have a woman kick a man’s ass in a ring, your company is dead at worst. At best, that male performer is done working as a believable champion.


That's the thing, it's so few women. I don't think it should be super open. Chyna, Tessa, maybe the transgender lady from aew. I totally admit there are very few women I could believe against a man.


DOTL said:


> I've never been into matches where Rey fought the Big Show. So let that say what it will.
> 
> Anyway to your first point, no one is saying people can't do what they want. On that same token people have the right to not be into it without it being controversial. There's nothing restrictive about liking what you like.


Multiple people are saying that. In this thread, before the thread, elsewhere in the internet. They're saying it shouldn't be allowed and if you want it you're wrong and a bad person. 

Telling me I shouldn't want women vs men (very few and specific women, mind you) and I'm wrong for wanting is......wrong. I'm fine if you don't want it. Don't tell me I'm wrong for wanting it if both participants agree to do it.

That should cover all topics in life, without throwing in exaggerated extremes.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

bdon said:


> Sami Callihan may get a contract from someone for what he did for Tessa, but his career is done. DOA.


Which is a shame because the guy is a damn good heel, but this is his legacy now.


----------



## Intimidator3 (Sep 28, 2019)

Not a fan. Just doesn’t look good more than anything.


----------



## Rozzop (Aug 26, 2019)

I never really noticed at the time but was watching royal rumble 99 recently. 

Chyna enters, beats up Mark Henry and throws him out. 

It looked so goofy. And Chyna is one of the more believable women wrestlers to have fought the men, but cmon, Henry just looked like he launched himself out the ring. 

But still, if people enjoy that more power to them.


----------



## Chris JeriG.O.A.T (Jun 17, 2014)

El Hammerstone said:


> Dude, I swear, in 10-15 years time there will be 3 foot tall wrestlers being hired with the backlash being responded to with "Well, Marko Stunt made it, so who are you to say this guy can't as well." People are already making excuses for Marko Stunt by using Rey Mysterio as an argument.
> 
> This is a big reason why the wrestling fanbase has been dwindling in recent years; because wrestling companies have taken to the mentality of "well it's wrestling, it's supposed to be stupid, so who gives a shit about conveying any sense of authenticity or realism", which results in the fans taking that same approach to viewing, and hence, neither the promotions nor the fans take it seriously and goofy concepts like Marko Stunt and women going toe to toe with top guys are welcomed as a result. I mean, a non wrestling fan is going to see things like this, roll their eyes, and change the channel; this is how the average person will respond to this mentality of "it's wrestling, so who the fuck cares".


"wReSTlinG iS StuPId so we can do literally anything, hurr durr."

If wrestling is stupid maybe the solution isn't leaning into the stupidity, we've watched Vince do that for 30 years and we're now at record low viewership. Maybe the solution is to minimize some of the stupid elements and introduce some smart ones?


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

All Elite Wanking said:


> That's the thing, it's so few women. I don't think it should be super open. Chyna, Tessa, maybe the transgender lady from aew. I totally admit there are very few women I could believe against a man.
> 
> Multiple people are saying that. In this thread, before the thread, elsewhere in the internet. They're saying it shouldn't be allowed and if you want it you're wrong and a bad person.
> 
> ...


You’re welcome to your opinion.

We are also welcome to telling you how bad it will be for whichever companies do it at worst, and at best, it buries your male performers who have to maintain some semblance of believability.

Watch what happens to Rollins if/when Vince goes with Flair vs Rollins at a future Mania, and you know it is in his head after Tessa’s win.


----------



## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> This is the problem with intergender sports, we want to see the elite vs the elite, why would anybody want to see an elite woman dominate an average man? And if the elite women go against average men and don't dominate they make their entire gender look bad. You think it was a good idea to put the US Women's Soccer team against teenage boys and lose? You think that helped people get excited for women's soccer?
> 
> You want to see Charlotte, Rhea and Bianca beat up goofs like Adam Cole and Finn Balor but what happens when they go against Black, Owens, Joe, Montez, Murphy? Won't those guys careers be destroyed by losing to a woman?


He also completely misrepresents the Serena match. it was a doubles.


----------



## Scissor Me Daddy-O!! (Apr 13, 2011)

bdon said:


> You’re welcome to your opinion.
> 
> We are also welcome to telling you how bad it will be for whichever companies do it at worst, and at best, it buries your male performers who have to maintain some semblance of believability.
> 
> Watch what happens to Rollins if/when Vince goes with Flair vs Rollins at a future Mania, and you know it is in his head after Tessa’s win.


It's close minded, sexist, bigotry to say it buries the men.

That's the same idea of a racist. "Well Daddy tells me black people are bad, so I believe it, too". Just because someone told you a belief that men have to be dominate over women doesn't mean that's the case. 

If a legitimate Lady beats a dude in a fight and you pity the dude, that's your pity. Not his. Not the person next to you. 

Now I'm going overboard because you're being so nonsensical and stubborn. It's ridiculous. Tessa is physically fit and believable to beat Sami Callahan. If you don't think so then you don't understand physics, muscle, and technique. Or, you don't like Wrestling with story. 

I don't know what more you could want. Don't @ me.


----------



## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

All Elite Wanking said:


> Multiple people are saying that. In this thread, before the thread, elsewhere in the internet. They're saying it shouldn't be allowed and if you want it you're wrong and a bad person.
> 
> Telling me I shouldn't want women vs men (very few and specific women, mind you) and I'm wrong for wanting is......wrong. I'm fine if you don't want it. Don't tell me I'm wrong for wanting it if both participants agree to do it.
> 
> That should cover all topics in life, without throwing in exaggerated extremes.


Well you won't find me saying that. It's harmless really.


----------



## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

All Elite Wanking said:


> It's close minded, sexist, bigotry to say it buries the men.


It does. If that's closed minded, so be it. 

It's one thing to like it. It's another thing to lie and say that women can compete with supposedly elite male athletes.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> "wReSTlinG iS StuPId so we can do literally anything, hurr durr."
> 
> If wrestling is stupid maybe the solution isn't leaning into the stupidity, we've watched Vince do that for 30 years and we're now at record low viewership. Maybe the solution is to minimize some of the stupid elements and introduce some smart ones?


Dude, I don't know if you meant to quote someone else or if you just misunderstood me, but I was saying that exact same thing.


----------



## scshaastin (Feb 24, 2016)

They already have transgender matches in AEW


----------



## Reggie Dunlop (Nov 2, 2015)

How about they get a few women on the roster who look like they can believably hang with other women before we talk about any of them hanging with men.


----------



## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

scshaastin said:


> They already have transgender matches in AEW


I know and those girls end up like this


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

I hate that this is the conversation we are having in 2020. Intergender wrestling should never be a thing. The moment you have women beating men for world titles on a consistent basis and beating them on weekly TV is the moment that wrestling dies forever. It's not believable for Nia Jax to even beat someone as small as Sin Cara. Males have testosterone and women don't.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

prosperwithdeen said:


> I hate that this is the conversation we are having in 2020. Intergender wrestling should never be a thing. The moment you have women beating men for world titles on a consistent basis and beating them on weekly TV is the moment that wrestling dies forever. It's not believable for Nia Jax to even beat someone as small as Sin Cara. Males have testosterone and women don't.


I wish All Elite Wanker would understand this simple concept.


----------



## Chris JeriG.O.A.T (Jun 17, 2014)

El Hammerstone said:


> Dude, I don't know if you meant to quote someone else or if you just misunderstood me, but I was saying that exact same thing.


Yea that was me agreeing with you.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Yea that was me agreeing with you.


Okay then, good to know.


----------



## TripleG (Dec 8, 2004)

Aren't all Nyla Rose matches intergender? 

...I'll see myself out now.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

TripleG said:


> Aren't all Nyla Rose matches intergender?
> 
> ...I'll see myself out now.


I prefer that to Lars Sullivans’ enter-ur-genitalia matches. 

....hold the door, I’m right behind you.


----------



## Jedah (Jul 16, 2017)

I can tolerate intergender matches in a tag team setting but not as any kind of big angle singles thing. There's just too much to lose for the roster and company.



BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> In real life, Shayna Baszler is shitting on everyone except Brock, so that's a terrible comparison.


No she's not. Almost any man on that roster is beating her with little to no difficulty.

Put her up against Black, Murphy, Roman, the list goes on and on. Good luck.



BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> Serena faced Federer, a GOAT, in a mixed doubles match last year and the match was competitive.


If she faced him in a real match she wouldn't win a single point.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Aight, a few things:

1. Man, AEW really is trying to go full fledged indy isn't it? Intergender wrestling is something a local indy to me does and they draw 50 people to see it. No normal person wants to see it and it turns people off. It's considered something that stereotypical indy wrestling fans enjoy and nobody else.

2. Speaking of normal people imagine a regular wrestling fan or even a regular person seeing an intergender match. We live in a world where people suffer horrific cases of domestic violence do you think a woman wants to see a man punch, chop and throw around a woman on national television? ESPECIALLY if that woman is a victim of domestic violence herself. "Lolz0rz wrestling is teh fake don't take it 2 serius!11!1!" doesn't mean shit when you potentially bring up bad memories for people. Not to mention a lot of dads teach their kids that punching women is wrong...

3. As others have pointed out they make no sense. The men and women of AEW are all elite athletes from a kayfabe perspective. If you took the worst NFL team in the world and paired them up against the best American Football women's team would they have a chance? Here in Australia we have women's leagues of our two major football leagues (The AFL and NRL) and whilst the women are okay to watch they are nothing in comparison to the men. I think even the worst men's NRL team would belt the best women's team by at least 100 points. There was a case where the national women's soccer team played a friendly against the Newcastle Jets (A club) U15's and lost 6-0 to them. That was professionals Vs kids with potential.

4. From a booking perspective it's dumb. As others have pointed out if the man beats a woman who gives a shit he beat a girl like he was expected to. If the woman beats a man it does nothing for her because it's so common now but the man is no longer taken seriously. It's pointless and designed to cater to those seeking equality without using any form of common sense. Matches are also super predictable because it's always the woman getting her ass kicked and then somehow pulling out the win with a roll up or a quick move.

5. A real life example. My girlfriend is a blue belt in karate which I believe is just 2 off black belt in her chosen art. She is about 3-4 years off being a black belt she thinks. She has been training in karate for four years, she has won national tournaments and has never lost a fight (Granted she's only an amateur but still...)

Sometimes as couples do she wants to spar with me. I'm a 5'7 80 KG dude with very little fighting background whilst she's 10 KG's lighter and an inch shorter. She trains 2-3 times a week and as pointed out I don't train at all in a fighting style. When we spar I easily throw her around, get her to the ground and lock on the very few holds I know (Full nelson is very effective btw!). I put that ability to throw her around and get her down to my natural strength of being a man. If we had the rules of strike only she would kill me but when we wrestle I can easily win.

Now imagine I was a pro fighter...


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

TripleG said:


> Aren't all Nyla Rose matches intergender?
> 
> ...I'll see myself out now.


she’s most likely taking a bucket-load of hormones and suppressing testosterone drugs


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> she’s most likely taking a bucket-load of hormones and suppressing testosterone drugs


Does not eliminate advantages of going through male puberty/bone structure, etc. They are obviously debating all this in most sports now. I just care what the science says, not emotions.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Lheurch said:


> Does not eliminate advantages of going through male puberty/bone structure, etc. They are obviously debating all this in most sports now. I just care what the science says, not emotions.


Oh, i don‘t care about any of it

was just pointing it out

i think its all dumb


----------



## Kishido (Aug 12, 2014)

Yeah cool. Hope we will see Braun vs anyone at WWE

And other sports should do this as well because sexists

UFC for example
FIFA, NFL and everyone


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Can’t wait for Tyson vs Ali’s daughter.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Aight, a few things:
> 
> 1. Man, AEW really is trying to go full fledged indy isn't it? Intergender wrestling is something a local indy to me does and they draw 50 people to see it. No normal person wants to see it and it turns people off. It's considered something that stereotypical indy wrestling fans enjoy and nobody else.


*Speak for yourself. I grew up watching intergender matches in WWF when wrestling was at its mainstream peak.
*



> 2. Speaking of normal people imagine a regular wrestling fan or even a regular person seeing an intergender match. We live in a world where people suffer horrific cases of domestic violence do you think a woman wants to see a man punch, chop and throw around a woman on national television? ESPECIALLY if that woman is a victim of domestic violence herself. "Lolz0rz wrestling is teh fake don't take it 2 serius!11!1!" doesn't mean shit when you potentially bring up bad memories for people. Not to mention a lot of dads teach their kids that punching women is wrong...


*Mia Yim is a domestic abuse survivor. She advocates for intergender matches. Consent and trust with one's body isn't the same as being beaten against your will.*





> 4. From a booking perspective it's dumb. As others have pointed out if the man beats a woman who gives a shit he beat a girl like he was expected to. If the woman beats a man it does nothing for her because it's so common now but the man is no longer taken seriously. It's pointless and designed to cater to those seeking equality without using any form of common sense. Matches are also super predictable because it's always the woman getting her ass kicked and then somehow pulling out the win with a roll up or a quick move.


*That's almost certainly going to be the case for Riho, who does the same shit against women, but it doesn't have to apply to the stronger women.*



> 5. A real life example. My girlfriend is a blue belt in karate which I believe is just 2 off black belt in her chosen art. She is about 3-4 years off being a black belt she thinks. She has been training in karate for four years, she has won national tournaments and has never lost a fight (Granted she's only an amateur but still...)
> 
> Sometimes as couples do she wants to spar with me. I'm a 5'7 80 KG dude with very little fighting background whilst she's 10 KG's lighter and an inch shorter. She trains 2-3 times a week and as pointed out I don't train at all in a fighting style. When we spar I easily throw her around, get her to the ground and lock on the very few holds I know (Full nelson is very effective btw!). I put that ability to throw her around and get her down to my natural strength of being a man. If we had the rules of strike only she would kill me but when we wrestle I can easily win.
> 
> Now imagine I was a pro fighter...


*I'm a 1st degree Black belt in Taekwondo. It took me about 2 years. Intergender sparring is regular. Women of higher or equal rank beat men and no one blinks. My instructor's daughter was a 2nd Degree Black belt who beat up the boys all the time. That's why I find the "not believable" excuse to be absolute bullshit. I've experienced it and seen it in both martial arts and real wrestling in high school.*


----------



## The Masked Avenger (Apr 18, 2018)

I have zero interest in watching intergender matches. If AEW does start doing this I will skip the matches, if they make them into important storylines like Tessa winning the Impact championship then I will probably stop watching AEW altogether.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Can't say intergender matches do anything for me. 

Don't mind for storyline purpose, a woman or man getting their comeuppance or a heel beating up a woman but a match? 

Just no.


----------



## ReekOfAwesomenesss (Apr 6, 2012)

I am okay with it.


----------



## Zbagint (Jul 25, 2018)

I don’t think it’s fair to say it’s not believable, but I do think it’s fair to say there is little to no entertainment value in it. Wrestling itself is incredibly fake to anyone that doesn’t choose to ignore it. Rampant corruption, beating up officials with no consequence, guys being beat up for 10 minutes only to make a comeback, Irish whips, using flips as offense etc. obviously none of that makes sense, but it’s on the show because without these things, wrestling would be way less fun. An inter gender match is fine as a novelty if you were to say, have Nyla beat Joey Janela or Kip Sabían once in a blue moon, but over expose it and you’d have to be kidding yourself to say you don’t notice a huge difference in genders.

The women run the ropes slower, their strikes are less impactful, they’re less athletic, have a lower pain tolerance, less fluid. I find it obnoxious to watch not because it’s not believable, but because in most intergender matches, it’s very obvious the men carry the women through the match. Lucha underground was a great example of this. It was very obvious the men would try to avoid hitting Ivelisse as much as possible and when she was hit, it was usually a limited pool of moves she could take. You weren’t going to see her taking any Canadian destroyers or 450 splashes. The move sets of women are almost all the same too. At least the smaller ones that can’t lift the men. It was just basic hurricanranas and head scissors all the while it did look weird seeing men sell significantly lower impact moves.

But if we are going to talk from a real world perspective it’s not even close. Men on average have 61% more muscle mass than women which is attributed to testosterone. The top women’s soccer teams regularly get destroyed by 15 year old boys league teams. Heck, go look at the track and field and swimming times for men and women from the Olympics. I doubt there is a single woman that would qualify for the men’s events.

Unless you just want to see women for identity purposes, there’s very little value in watching men neuter their wrestling style for women.


----------



## r0scoe (Apr 1, 2014)

I don' really want to see intergender matches unless it's a situation like Becky vs James Ellsworth in which we just want to see Becky beat his ass


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Fuck it. Let Vince book Charlotte Flair over Rollins somewhere down the line at Mania. Give it time for Rollins to see how quickly Callihan loses credibility and is done as a performer.

Then we are forced to listen to the same Social Justice Warriors crying about Rollins going into business for himself and beating Flair’s ass in a shoot.


----------



## Balor fan (May 9, 2017)

Too much mental masturbation over this from both sides of the argument.

In Mortal Kombat games men and women fight each other. So AEW can book intergender matches since its entertainment like Mortal Kombat. End of story


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Zbagint said:


> I don’t think it’s fair to say it’s not believable, but I do think it’s fair to say there is little to no entertainment value in it. Wrestling itself is incredibly fake to anyone that doesn’t choose to ignore it. Rampant corruption, beating up officials with no consequence, guys being beat up for 10 minutes only to make a comeback, Irish whips, using flips as offense etc. obviously none of that makes sense, but it’s on the show because without these things, wrestling would be way less fun. An inter gender match is fine as a novelty if you were to say, have Nyla beat Joey Janela or Kip Sabían once in a blue moon, but over expose it and you’d have to be kidding yourself to say you don’t notice a huge difference in genders.
> 
> The women run the ropes slower, their strikes are less impactful, they’re less athletic, have a lower pain tolerance, less fluid. I find it obnoxious to watch not because it’s not believable, but because in most intergender matches, it’s very obvious the men carry the women through the match. Lucha underground was a great example of this. It was very obvious the men would try to avoid hitting Ivelisse as much as possible and when she was hit, it was usually a limited pool of moves she could take. You weren’t going to see her taking any Canadian destroyers or 450 splashes. The move sets of women are almost all the same too. At least the smaller ones that can’t lift the men. It was just basic hurricanranas and head scissors all the while it did look weird seeing men sell significantly lower impact moves.
> 
> ...


Great post.


----------



## AEWMoxley (May 26, 2019)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Charlotte can squat against a wall with Andrade standing on her knees. Rhea squats 275. Bianca is stronger than Rhea and her weightlifting records haven't been touched in 3 years. The Rock weighs 275. If you think these women would struggle against the skinny 5'9 Cruiserweights of today, simply because they're women, you're being intentionally sexist.*


There have been multiple studies that have shown that the average non-professional athlete male has more strength and much quicker response time than high level female athletes.

Might want to rethink this whole "believable" thing.

Granted, wrestling is fake, so it doesn't have to be believable. But the way you're presenting your argument sounds like you think this shit can actually happen in reality.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

*@Zbagint So you really brought up Lucha Underground and pretended like the Black Lotus Triad vs Pentagon wasn't one of the greatest matches in the history of the franchise?*



AEWMoxley said:


> There have been multiple studies that have shown that the average non-professional athlete male has more strength and much quicker response time than high level female athletes.
> 
> Might want to rethink this whole "believable" thing.
> 
> Granted, wrestling is fake, so it doesn't have to be believable. But the way you're presenting your argument sounds like you think this shit can actually happen in reality.


*Those random studies sure didn't work out for this guy:








Man tries to rob female MMA fighter. It does not go well


What’s worse than running into a karate dojo while trying to abduct someone? Trying to rob an MMA fighter is right up there.




wreg.com





You should try fighting an elite female martial artist and tell us how that works out for you.*


----------



## Undertaker23RKO (Jun 11, 2011)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Charlotte can squat against a wall with Andrade standing on her knees. Rhea squats 275. Bianca is stronger than Rhea and her weightlifting records haven't been touched in 3 years. The Rock weighs 275. If you think these women would struggle against the skinny 5'9 Cruiserweights of today, simply because they're women, you're being intentionally sexist.*


I squated 275 at age 16 and I'm nowhere near an elite athlete. That's childs play for any dude. Every man on the roster would tear any woman on the roster apart except MAYBE Shayna. If women could compete with men you would see it in other sports. You don't. Keep ignoring genetics though.


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

In order to make the women look good in an intergender match, the man have to look bad…….


----------



## Whoanma (Apr 5, 2016)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *@Zbagint So you really brought up Lucha Underground and pretended like the Black Lotus Triad vs Pentagon wasn't one of the greatest matches in the history of the franchise?
> 
> 
> Those random studies sure didn't work out for this guy:
> ...


Oops, it looks like his genes failed him.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Let me just go over the whole Tessa Blanchard thing in Impact Wrestling for reference here. Tessa Blanchard defeated the likes of Brian Cage and then Sami Callihan for the world title, while previously having competitive back and forth contests with the likes of Taya Valkyrie and Gail Kim. What you've done here is effectively tell the audience that the likes of Taya and Gail Kim could also go toe to toe with the likes of Brian Cage and Callihan in the main event scene as well, and this does not bring the women up anywhere near as much as it brings the men down.

The only way this could potentially work is if you were to have a massive female, the likes of Chyna or Awesome Kong, decimate, and I mean ABSOLUTELY deciminate the other females in the company before going on to face the men; otherwise, you've essentially put the female and male rosters on the same level, and that will kill any larger than life superhero quality that the male wrestlers had. There is no upside to this.


----------



## Zbagint (Jul 25, 2018)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *@Zbagint So you really brought up Lucha Underground and pretended like the Black Lotus Triad vs Pentagon wasn't one of the greatest matches in the history of the franchise?
> 
> 
> Those random studies sure didn't work out for this guy:
> ...


“History of the franchise” is a huge stretch. It was enjoyable match I will say but that’s also the exception to the rule. Every other woman had a huge glaring weaknesses. Sexy Star bumped well but moved really slow and had weak strikes, Ivelisse never bumped and no strength, Taya was fairly strong but also moved slow. There’s a huge difference between men and women in basically every aspect of wrestling and the more you see it, the more you notice. It’s like when a legend returns to a company. It’s fun to see one time but when they’re on every week it loses that special feeling and you realize you’re getting subpar content (I.e. Hogan in TNA)


----------



## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

There's little point arguing with the zealots about this. They do nothing but dig for single exceptions they can find, which they then think invalidates biology.

There's no winning. To them, this is political. It's about ideals, screw reality. Wrestling is fake anyway, so what's the problem being faker?


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

El Hammerstone said:


> Let me just go over the whole Tessa Blanchard thing in Impact Wrestling for reference here. Tessa Blanchard defeated the likes of Brian Cage and then Sami Callihan for the world title, while previously having competitive back and forth contests with the likes of Taya Valkyrie and Gail Kim. What you've done here is effectively tell the audience that the likes of Taya and Gail Kim could also go toe to toe with the likes of Brian Cage and Callihan in the main event scene as well, and this does not bring the women up anywhere near as much as it brings the men down.
> 
> The only way this could potentially work is if you were to have a massive female, the likes of Chyna or Awesome Kong, decimate, and I mean ABSOLUTELY deciminate the other females in the company before going on to face the men; otherwise, you've essentially put the female and male rosters on the same level, and that will kill any larger than life superhero quality that the male wrestlers had. There is no upside to this.


Some people can’t seem to understand this.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *@Zbagint So you really brought up Lucha Underground and pretended like the Black Lotus Triad vs Pentagon wasn't one of the greatest matches in the history of the franchise?
> 
> 
> Those random studies sure didn't work out for this guy:
> ...


You don't seem to get most of our points.

Yes, of course a trained MMA female would beat an untrained average mans ass especially if she's making some kind of income from being a fighter. In wrestling from a kayfabe standpoint these men and women are all trained elite fighters who are at the top of their game.

So instead of your example being a case of Trained MMA Female Vs Average Joe on the streets your example should be more like Miesha Tate Vs Alexander Volkanovski. I guarantee Volkanovski would win within a minute or two just due to naturally being fitter, bigger and stronger.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

*Update y'all:

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1220613338662653952
So it was a mixed tag. Let's see how much the men and women actually got physical.*



Chip Chipperson said:


> You don't seem to get most of our points.
> 
> Yes, of course a trained MMA female would beat an untrained average mans ass especially if she's making some kind of income from being a fighter. In wrestling from a kayfabe standpoint these men and women are all trained elite fighters who are at the top of their game.
> 
> So instead of your example being a case of Trained MMA Female Vs Average Joe on the streets your example should be more like Miesha Tate Vs Alexander Volkanovski. I guarantee Volkanovski would win within a minute or two just due to naturally being fitter, bigger and stronger.


*Look at the post I quoted. He specifically said average man.*


----------



## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

This thread may not end well but i'll post my 2 cents, i still think like Booker T said, there is no place to have men vs women in pro wrestling. End of story.


----------



## Whoanma (Apr 5, 2016)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Update y'all:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1220613338662653952
> So it was a mixed tag. Let's see how much the men and women actually got physical.*


Riho and Kenny. :mark :mark :mark


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Whoanma said:


> Riho and Kenny. :mark :mark :mark


*Genuine question: how do you as a fan feel about how Riho's title reign, appearances, and match layout are booked?*


----------



## Whoanma (Apr 5, 2016)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Genuine question: how do you as a fan feel about how Riho's title reign, appearances, and match layout are booked?*


The main issue is she’s working for Stardom as well, being their High Speed Champion, teaming with the members of STARS... this has led to very few appearances in AEW. I’d like her to be featured more, obviously being the champ. If she loses the title at Revolution, her reign won’t have been very memorable, though I‘m not sure they could do anything to change that having into account she can’t commit only to AEW.

I like her teaming up with Omega, hopefully they’ll show it on Dark and it may lead to more matches, as Kenny himself said he’d like to have in AEW.


----------



## Seth Grimes (Jul 31, 2015)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Genuine question: how do you as a fan feel about how Riho's title reign, appearances, and match layout are booked?*


Why do you bold everything you write? Do you think that it makes your words hold more weight?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Whoanma said:


> The main issue is she’s working for Stardom as well, being their High Speed Champion, teaming with the members of STARS... this has lead to very few appearances in AEW. I’d like her to be featured more, obviously being the champ. If she loses the title at Revolution, her reign won’t have been very memorable, though I‘m not sure they could do anything to change that having into account she can’t commit only to AEW.
> 
> I like her teaming up with Omega, hopefully they’ll show it on Dark and it may lead to more matches, as Kenny himself said he’d like to have in AEW.


*I think they should've taken that into account before rushing the belt onto her and keeping it on her instead of giving it to Statlander. I get that she was the biggest name they had at the time, but it did nothing for their division in the long run and it ironically became the worst part of the show. Making Statlander champ would've been the first big step in repairing the division, but they've only taken two steps back by keeping the belt on Riho and forcing this dumb Nightmare Collective shit.*


----------



## TerraRising (Aug 5, 2015)

Doesn't count if Nyla's involved, for obvious biological anatomical physiological andrological _"biased, bigoted"_ reasons.


----------



## Alexander_G (Mar 10, 2018)

God damn, it's really going to start happening, isn't it? This is really the direction the business is taking...


----------



## The Masked Avenger (Apr 18, 2018)

Mixed match is different. I did enjoy the mixed match challenge and it's something they've done for a long time. The men still fight the men and women the women. An occasional move on each other is fine but not a full on match. I did enjoy watching Rhonda get those stomach strikes on Tripe H in their WrestleMania match.


----------



## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> Mixed match is different. I did enjoy the mixed match challenge and it's something they've done for a long time. The men still fight the men and women the women. An occasional move on each other is fine but not a full on match. I did enjoy watching Rhonda get those stomach strikes on Tripe H in their WrestleMania match.


Mixed tag is ok. Convoluted, but ok.


----------



## Chris JeriG.O.A.T (Jun 17, 2014)

Balor fan said:


> Too much mental masturbation over this from both sides of the argument.
> 
> In Mortal Kombat games men and women fight each other. So AEW can book intergender matches since its entertainment like Mortal Kombat. End of story


Mortal Kombat characters literally have superpowers, is that how we explain women can compete with men in wrestling, they're all superpowered?


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Mortal Kombat characters literally have superpowers, is that how we explain women can compete with men in wrestling, they're all superpowered?


How else would you explain a Buck winning a match? They literally did hadoukens at Fyter Fest. Like I said in another thread, why not just animate their opponents at this point?


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Mortal Kombat characters literally have superpowers, is that how we explain women can compete with men in wrestling, they're all superpowered?


Even with superheroes though generally the male superhero is stronger than the female hero as well.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Even with superheroes though generally the male superhero is stronger than the female hero as well.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Even with superheroes though generally the male superhero is stronger than the female hero as well.


*








Dark Phoenix GIF - Find & Share on GIPHY


Discover & share this Ashes GIF with everyone you know. GIPHY is how you search, share, discover, and create GIFs.




giphy.com




*


----------



## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

Are we comparing fictional people now?

These discussions about gender really are annoying.

If you have questions of what men and women can do just pull up a chart of world records for various physical activities. That should guide you.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

DOTL said:


> Mixed tag is ok. Convoluted, but ok.


Exactly. If they keep the men together, that is fine with me. I had no problem with Buff and Judy Bagwell vs Kanyon and Pamela Paulshock, because they kept it simple.

The minute I see Riho knocking out Sabian with those double knees, when Kenny’s V-Trigger only gets a 2 count, I’m out.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Well, just heard Alvarez and Meltzer discussing the intergender match. It was NOT the traditional men vs men, women vs women. Riho vs Sabian was a big part of it with arm drags and the like. As for Kenny and Penelope, he apparently drilled her with a snap dragon after taking his time holding the full Nelson, hinting that he was buying time for Kip Sabian to break it up.

I’d like to see the match. There are ways to do these, and Meltzer is calling it one of the best matches on the cruise. He’s a mark for Kenny, though, so I’ll wait to see with my own eyes, which I’m sure we will.


----------



## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

Please get Omega away from any kind of booking and let Cody and Dustin just book the damn shit with Khans approval. Jesus.


----------



## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Too bad this isn't combat. AEW is full of choreographed gymnastics and you're acting like it's a life or death situation. In real life, Shayna Baszler is shitting on everyone except Brock, so that's a terrible comparison.*



Shayna kicks Drew Mcyintire or Braun or Joes ass? Lmao. Being trained in MMA doesnt make you a fighting God. Biology is Biology. The three guys I menitoned would swat Shayna like a fly and go look for a fight. Hell. Corbin is a 6 6 former NFL player and Golden Gloves champ. What shes gonna do, get him on the ground and lock in an armbar? Good luck not getting your face broken first.

Look, I know you really, really, are into womens wrestling, but thats just a ridiculous thing to say lol.


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I think they should've taken that into account before rushing the belt onto her and keeping it on her instead of giving it to Statlander. I get that she was the biggest name they had at the time, but it did nothing for their division in the long run and it ironically became the worst part of the show. Making Statlander champ would've been the first big step in repairing the division, but they've only taken two steps back by keeping the belt on Riho and forcing this dumb Nightmare Collective shit.*


Statlander wasn't signed with AEW until recently.


----------



## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Speak for yourself. I grew up watching intergender matches in WWF when wrestling was at its mainstream peak.*


So you really do compare Chyna to this generations women? She was the „7th wonder of the world“ and like a lot taller than most of her male competition she fought back then. I dont remember any other female fighting men, besides Lita taking a bump in a tag match here and there.


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

Alexander_G said:


> God damn, it's really going to start happening, isn't it? This is really the direction the business is taking...


No it's not going to happen for the simple reason that Khan don't want it to be on live TV and i'm pretty sure that TNT would not okay at all with it.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

fabi1982 said:


> So you really do compare Chyna to this generations women? She was the „7th wonder of the world“ and like a lot taller than most of her male competition she fought back then. I dont remember any other female fighting men, besides Lita taking a bump in a tag match here and there.


*9th Wonder of the World. Trish and Lita regularly took table bumps. I've already named multiple women with Chyna like strength. Go through the thread.*


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *9th Wonder of the World. Trish and Lita regularly took table bumps. I've already named multiple women with Chyna like strength. Go through the thread.*


Because you think that in today society they can do that ? XD


----------



## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

Another thing I don’t like about intergender matches is that you have to pretend that you think they’re competitive. You can obviously see the dude isn’t going full power. It’s pointless.


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

A real intergender match was Asuka vs Minoru Suzuki.


----------



## Zbagint (Jul 25, 2018)

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Mortal Kombat characters literally have superpowers, is that how we explain women can compete with men in wrestling, they're all superpowered?


To add to this, a live action Mortal Kombat takes place in a setting where they can use special effects and camera work to make them appear evenly matched. In the video game, they can obviously program the women to be agile and quicker. That’s not the case in a live wrestling show. It doesn’t matter what world you design or if you simply tell people “women are as strong as men!” When people can see with their own eyes that there is a gaping difference.


----------



## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

It SHOULD be about 2 things for AEW. #1. Their sponsors #2 Gaining that mainstream crowd.

Doing "Impact wrestling shit like with Tessa", is not going to put your company over well with sponsors and a mainstream crowd. So the whole fantasy shit, entertainment shit is irrelevant here. Its about 2 things (sponsors--#$ and the main audience appeal-$). They start catering to a small niche of people who enjoy men vs women matches and it's over.


----------



## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *9th Wonder of the World. Trish and Lita regularly took table bumps. I've already named multiple women with Chyna like strength. Go through the thread.*


Getting put through a table is not similar to a competetive match?!


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

There was an image that I saw a while ago (I wish I could find it), but it had a man and a woman watching an event while peeking over a wall; the man was standing there and watching over the wall, while the woman needed a box propped under her to be able to stand equally with the man and watch the event as well.

Visualize this image and then remove the box that the woman is standing on so that she can no longer see the event happening, and now cut the legs off of the man and have his torso sitting on the ground equal in height to the woman next to him; now neither of them can see what is happening, and nobody benefits. That is what going down this road will do for everyone involved in AEW.


----------



## CRCC (Sep 25, 2017)

Men vs women wrestling doesn't interest me at all.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

AEW: Violence against women. Yay!


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

Well i don't think this match is going to be on dark


----------



## 45banshee (Jan 7, 2019)

Intergender match...

Please tell me its not Riho ? I have a hard time believing she can beat the women in her own division


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

45banshee said:


> Intergender match...
> 
> *Please tell me its not Riho* ? I have a hard time believing she can beat the women in her own division


Can't you read ?


----------



## 45banshee (Jan 7, 2019)

Riho said AEW has their first intergender match. Doesn't mean Riho is participating in the match and she shouldn't.


----------



## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

According to Meltzer, Kenny is pushing for an Intergender division now.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Chan Hung said:


> According to Meltzer, Kenny is pushing for an Intergender division now.


Of course he is. Someone needs to get the book out of this jokers hands.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Chan Hung said:


> According to Meltzer, Kenny is pushing for an Intergender division now.


I'm a very stubborn guy and willing to stick it out through a lot, but I think if this became a fixture, I would have to tap out for good; it would be one of those things AEW couldn't rebound from.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

This guy is an EVP of the company. And he doesn't understand why men fighting women is a bad look in 2020.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Well, Omega/Riho vs. Sabian/Ford will officially be airing on Dark today, which will be sure to please the niche audience of anime nerds and alienate the mainstream fan (not to mention scare off a lot of potential new talent) if this is more than a one off. Zero upside, tremendous downside, in an era where wrestling fandom as a whole is dwindling as it is.









AEW Set To Air History-Making Match On Dark This Week


AEW got to produce some very fun segments on the Chris Jericho Cruise. Another thing that took place was the company's first mixed tag match. This turned




www.ringsidenews.com


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

El Hammerstone said:


> I'm a very stubborn guy and willing to stick it out through a lot, but I think if this became a fixture, I would have to tap out for good; it would be one of those things AEW couldn't rebound from.


Yeah i love that type of comment where someone think that he is the center of the world.

95% of the people on this forum (i was) were saying that the Rusev/Lana angle was terrible and that it was bad for the business....

Guess what, it was so bad for the business that this angle was the biggest draw of the company.

So before bitching and thinking that everybody thinks like you, you (we) should wait and see because one thing i learned since i'm on this forum is that when we think something is great, the casuals don't care about it but when we think something is awful the casuals tends to like it.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

rbl85 said:


> Yeah i love that type of comment where someone think that he is the center of the world.
> 
> 95% of the people on this forum were saying that the Rusev/Lana angle was terrible and that it was bad for the business....
> 
> ...


Lana/Rusev was the draw of the company for the moment, due to the trainwreck nature of it. This as well will garner initial views, but it will not garner a new fanbase, and will only serve to alienate a portion of the already existing fanbase. 

I have existed outside of the wrestling bubble longer than I have been a fan, I can say with absolute certainty that a casual views things like this much differently. This isn't even about being "uncomfortable" with the notion, it's about hurting the credibility of the men in these matches, because the men are, have been, and always will be the main draw of a mainstream wresting promotion. Lana/Rusev is a bad storyline and angle, but something like intergender wrestling will have a much greater effect; if you show Kenny Omega wrestling 50/50 with the likes of Penelope Ford (who I'm not saying isn't talented), and then have Kenny wrestle a 50/50 match with the world champion a month later, you're telling the viewer that Penelope Ford can go toe to toe with the best your company has to offer. People stop watching wrestling because they believe it to be stupid, so the fact that AEW may be looking to double down on the stupid and completely forgo any real simulation of combat is concerning.

It's not about how good the matches are, it's about public perception and credibility moving forward. A one off intergender contest like this will not damage the company, but I assure you, if this kind of thing becomes a staple moving forward, then AEW will suffer from it. Let us wait and see indeed.


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

They are testing the water with this match.

If they get good reactions, numbers out of it then they'll do more intergender tag match but if the reaction is bad then this match will be the first and the last.


----------



## utvolzac (Jul 25, 2013)

DOTL said:


> Are we comparing fictional people now?
> 
> These discussions about gender really are annoying.
> 
> If you have questions of what men and women can do just pull up a chart of world records for various physical activities. That should guide you.


Duke did an excellent study showing the massive difference between men and women. The last women’s gold medalist in track would have had her record beaten 15,000 times by men and boys. And that’s the best woman in the world.





__





Comparing Athletic Performances<br />The Best Elite Women to Boys and Men







web.law.duke.edu





The guy that thinks Serena could beat a mid level player from the men’s tour is living in a dream world. Her and her sister were beaten in straight sets by an aging vet who was ranked outside the top 200 while he was smoking between sets and had already played a round of golf in the morning. Realistically she would struggle with good Club Pros.









Serena Williams once challenged men's player at Australian Open


Serena Williams takes a walk down memory lane to her early days at Australian Open..



www.google.com





USWNT soccer gets beat by a U15 boys club team. Team USA women hockey loses in non-contact games against teenage boys prep school teams. UConn women’s basketball has male practice players to provide better competitors. Etc, etc, etc.

There’s enough statistical evidence that says the elite women’s athletes are roughly equivalent to very good teenage boys.

So unless AEW is trying to say their male roster has the kayfabe athletic ability of teenage boys, intergender wrestling is a bad idea for the image of their product.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

utvolzac said:


> Duke did an excellent study showing the massive difference between men and women. The last women’s gold medalist in track would have had her record beaten 15,000 times by men and boys. And that’s the best woman in the world.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In before, "it's wrestling, it's not real."


----------



## utvolzac (Jul 25, 2013)

El Hammerstone said:


> In before, "it's wrestling, it's not real."


And I understand that argument, but they are trying to portray it as realistic completion in a real life setting (ie nobody with super powers).

They also use the Rey Mysterio argument as well. But Rey is still a male who went through puberty with all the benefits of testosterone. There are sub 200lb players in the NFL taking hits from 300lb linemen. So Rey vs Brock is at least possible.

They also point to Chyna, but she was roided out of her mind to the point that you could not realistically classify her as a normal female athlete.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Yeah. I don't think they should go through with this. They don't need to and it's only gonna hurt them I feel like.


----------



## I'mTheGreatest (Aug 3, 2019)

When you think about it, it could make sense!! Wrestlers like Marco Stunt, Jungle boy and Allin probably belong in the women's division anyways!


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

rbl85 said:


> Yeah i love that type of comment where someone think that he is the center of the world.
> 
> 95% of the people on this forum (i was) were saying that the Rusev/Lana angle was terrible and that it was bad for the business....
> 
> ...


True story, a local indy near me got onto this intergender bullshit very early on before Impact or anyone mainstream had really done it. At the time they had a very casual fan base and weren't drawing very well so they attempted the intergender stuff.

They had a babyface male tag team take on a heel female tag team. One male wrestler forearmed the female wrestler in the face multiple times and the crowd responded with booing and a chant of "Australia says no" (A popular anti domestic violence campaign used the same Australia says no tagline). The male wrestlers then proceeded to kick the shit out of the female wrestlers whilst the audience booed them despite the females also trying to play heels. Eventually one woman rolled up one of the guys for a three count victory to which the audience cheered (Remember she's meant to be a heel) and booed the babyface team. Absolute shit show.

They still do these matches now in front of about 80 people in a little hall in a dodgy suburb. They now get cheered when they do this because they have a 100% smark audience. The casuals bailed on them long ago because this particular fed loved to make a mockery of professional wrestling.

A different company nearby recently did a deathmatch between a man and a woman where the 115 KG man in front of maybe 50 people stapled a 70 KG females ass and vagina as the people in attendance applauded. He then spat beer on her, hit her with a beer can, smashed her in the face with a chain, put her through a wooden board and then piledrove her onto lightubes for the win. The 50 people went mental.

This company usually does family friendly shows and posted it to their social media. Within a day or two they removed the video and issued an apology. Rumour has it a mum clicked the video and came across this and filed a complaint with the venues, the local media and the company was forced to issue a public apology and apparently almost lost their spot at both of their venues. The thought process of this woman was that it promotes domestic violence which is hard to debate when you have a man spitting beer on a woman and hitting her with the can.

Those are two local examples then you can look at Tessa Blanchard winning the Impact World Title for a national/international example. I've seen more fans shitting on that on social media than not.

It's not something people want to see. No normal person wants to see a 120 KG guy smash a 70 KG woman to pieces much like most of the internet fans don't want to see it. It's a very nerdy neckbeard type thing from what I've seen. The only time I agree with intergender matches is if it's got a great story behind it and both competitors are of equal size (Beulah/Alfonso, Chyna/Jarrett) or if it's your typical WWE intergender tag where the men and women barely touch one another.


----------



## 45banshee (Jan 7, 2019)

Is this the intergender match? Mixed tag like WWE. Not sure 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1224694532077428738


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

There is a big difference between your 2 exemples and having intergender tag match from time to time.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

45banshee said:


> Is this the intergender match? Mixed tag like WWE. Not sure
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1224694532077428738


Yes, that's the intergender match, in which Riho gets offense on Kip Sabian and Penelope Ford on Kenny, not to mention the additional shitstorm that men on women could cause if this becomes more than a one off.


----------



## Whoanma (Apr 5, 2016)




----------



## 45banshee (Jan 7, 2019)

El Hammerstone said:


> Yes, that's the intergender match, in which Riho gets offense on Kip Sabian and Penelope Ford on Kenny, not to mention the addition shitstorm that men on women could cause if this becomes more than a one off.


Oh no. Thats worse that Tessa Blancahrd taking on Brian Cage. I have a hard time believing Riho can beat the women on the roster let alone any of the men.

Only male I can realistically see Riho beating is Spike Dudley


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

45banshee said:


> Oh no. Thats worse that Tessa Blancahrd taking on Brian Cage. I have a hard time believing Riho can beat the women on the roster let alone any of the men.
> 
> *Only male I can realistically see Riho beating is Spike Dudley*


There is also Marko Stunt, but child abuse isn't funny.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

El Hammerstone said:


> There is also Marko Stunt, but child abuse isn't funny.


At least Spike Dudley was believable in that he would probably stab you and light you on fire to win. Also, Spike Dudley is the same height as Darby Allin, Eddie Guerrero, Joey Janela, and Chad Gable.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

*After all that shit y'all talked

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1224898747345330178
@Chris JeriG.O.A.T You gotta share this L with these people too. *


----------



## Whoanma (Apr 5, 2016)

The match was


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *After all that shit y'all talked
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1224898747345330178*


Of course the initial reactions would be good, nobody was saying otherwise; even I'm okay with this being a one off. The fact remains that there is no upside to this becoming a common thing; bigger picture, that's what matters.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

El Hammerstone said:


> Of course the initial reactions would be good, nobody was saying otherwise; even I'm okay with this being a one off. The fact remains that there is no upside to this becoming a common thing; bigger picture, that's what matters.


*I'm sorry, what? This thread is literally 100+ posts of bitching about how unbelievable it is for a woman to successfully engage a man in any physical activity.*



Whoanma said:


> The match was


*And you know I don't even like Riho like that, but I've got to give credit where it's due.*


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## CenaBoy4Life (Jul 31, 2013)

Nyla already beats up the women. Whats the difference?


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I'm sorry, what? This thread is literally 100+ posts of bitching about how unbelievable it is for a woman to successfully engage a man in any physical activity.*


And yet many of these people will still say the match was good, which it was, hence the initial reactions being positive; but people were not arguing about the potential quality of the match, but rather from a credibility standpoint (several people have cited countless statistics and various credible studies in this thread already, while you cite an instance of a professional female fighter taking down some random bum and your friend's daughter's karate class, there is no point arguing this further.) If AEW is going to see significant growth, then they need to realize that the average mainstream viewer (which AEW will need) will not take to this kind of thing, trust me, I'm actually saying this out of genuine concern for AEW and not anger. Catering to a "woke" audience is a bad idea.

I'm honestly done speaking about this; if you truly enjoy this kind of thing, then more power to you, but I just see zero appeal and zero upside to this. It would be nice if AEW appeared to care at all about simulating some form of legitimacy.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

That was a pretty good match - interesting that they had the shoulder cam the whole time

tells me they were not planning to ever show it, but fan demand forced Tony’s hand

I would like to see more actually - nothing looked ‘weird’ or ‘out of place’


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## Chris JeriG.O.A.T (Jun 17, 2014)

@BOSS of Bel-Air

Running notes:

I'm 4 seconds in and my suspension of disbelief has already been ruined, I'm supposed to buy that Penelope Ford can lock up with Omega?
Is this all chain wrestling garbage?
Shoulder tackles from a man don't hurt a 90 lb child?
I've never seen a Kip Sabian match but those strikes against Riho are looking Charmin ultra soft.
Kip can't easily roll over out of this single leg crab and launch her into space?
Lol I'm supposed to buy Riho's chops could hurt a fly let alone a grown man?
How come Kenny gets mad and comes into the ring every time Riho gets touched if she's an equal competitor, he doesn't do that for Page.
Kip keeps whiffing on these strikes against Riho, he's looking like that Dark Order goon.
Fuck is a sideshow match this long for? I don't remember WheeLC getting 20 minutes
Welp Kip Sabian's career is over

Complete garbage. They put Riho against the third smallest guy on the All Petite roster and it still was comically unbelievable. Notice how Omega didn't give Penelope Ford any V-triggers or chops? That shit would not have looked good. If you're going to book a bunch of boring ass chain wrestling and intentionally book matches where the guys with the hard-hitting offense can't use it against the women, what is even the point?


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## Zbagint (Jul 25, 2018)

rbl85 said:


> Yeah i love that type of comment where someone think that he is the center of the world.
> 
> 95% of the people on this forum (i was) were saying that the Rusev/Lana angle was terrible and that it was bad for the business....
> 
> ...


I agree with your premise of not being the center of the world, but his post doesn't really do that. Your post seems to be implying also that we should only like things based on their success in ratings or not. We're allowed to support things based on whether we personally enjoy them or not. Personally, I couldn't really give a shit whether AEW does 850K or 970K. I want a show that I enjoy watching and the last thing I want to see is men being neutered to 50% to wrestle women. 

But if we are talking from a business perspective, I'll take a stab at that too; Where exactly is the market for this? Look at AEW's crowd. It's full of almost predominantly men and even if wrestling itself is a bit on the geek side, it's still a "macho" event with two guys beating each other up. That's hardly the same "fight the patriarchy!" crowd that would enjoy women overcome men. Secondly, SJW politics are so oversaturated on TV that I doubt this would make any headway at all.Over 90% of Hollywood is left-wing so they're not exactly breaking any ground by going "we have transgenders and women beat up men!" Even more so, AEW isn't attracting nearly as many families and soccer moms as WWE so their audience is even more going to be catered towards the diehard/conservative fanbase and they sure as hell aren't going to enjoy watching men vs. women for the sheer quality of the matches. Heck, they'd probably be better served just not having a women's division at all. 

Like I had mentioned earlier, it's fine as a novelty but overdo it and it will grow tiresome incredibly fast.


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> @BOSS of Bel-Air
> 
> Running notes:
> 
> ...


*Lmao. It's not like they booked Pentagon Dark against Riho, who ironically had the greatest televised intergender match of all time with 3 small Asian women, Kairi and Io included. This was just to test the waters and see if fan demand was there, and it clearly is. I liked the rough draft a lot and would love to see them escalate the strikes as the crowd becomes more conditioned to seeing women get hit. That's a lot to just throw at the mainstream audience immediately because MOMS FOR AMERICA might send strongly worded letters to TNT management.

Here's the type of shit you're looking for: 




Women taking unpulled strikes, flush superkicks, environmental damage, getting strangled by camera cords, and having their arms broken. This was the match that showed me I needed intergender matches back in WWE.*


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## Chris JeriG.O.A.T (Jun 17, 2014)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Lmao. It's not like they booked Pentagon Dark against Riho, who ironically had the greatest televised intergender match of all time with 3 small Asian women, Kairi and Io included. This was just to test the waters and see if fan demand was there, and it clearly is. I liked the rough draft a lot and would love to see them escalate the strikes as the crowd becomes more conditioned to seeing women get hit. That's a lot to just throw at the mainstream audience immediately because MOMS FOR AMERICA might send strongly worded letters to TNT management.
> 
> Here's the type of shit you're looking for:
> 
> ...


Yea I saw that match, it was a disgusting car crash, and like disgusting car crashes or CZW ultra death matches it's the kind of thing I watch once in a blue moon out of morbid curiosity. I don't want to see it multiple times a year, let alone frequently enough to warrant it's own division.


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Yea I saw that match, it was a disgusting car crash, and like disgusting car crashes or CZW ultra death matches it's the kind of thing I watch once in a blue moon out of morbid curiosity. I don't want to see it multiple times a year, let alone frequently enough to warrant it's own division.


*I don't get it. You say you want the women to take full force strikes and the men to not dumb down anything about their moveset, but then when it happens, you say it's car crash TV. A big Latino man gave 3 small Asian women all the smoke and they put on a classic. What's not to like?*


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## Aedubya (Jul 12, 2019)

Wasnt feeling it at all

No harm in testing the water by putting it on Dark (last minute decision it looks too btw due to the production)
Hopefully only saved for one offs like this


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## Chris JeriG.O.A.T (Jun 17, 2014)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I don't get it. You say you want the women to take full force strikes and the men to not dumb down anything about their moveset, but then when it happens, you say it's car crash TV. A big Latino man gave 3 small Asian women all the smoke and they put on a classic. What's not to like?*


My point was if you're going to do it go balls deep. That Riho match was like letting women into the NFL but they can't be tackled you have to pull their flags. You get to virtue signal like there's equality when there really isn't and in the end it ruins the quality of both the men's and women's products.


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Aedubya said:


> Wasnt feeling it at all
> 
> No harm in testing the water by putting it on Dark (last minute decision it looks too btw due to the production)
> Hopefully only saved for one offs like this


*They're definitely doing it again after all the positive feedback. *


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## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

There's literally no appeal to watching a man fight a woman if you're not into the aesthetic.


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## The Masked Avenger (Apr 18, 2018)

As soon as I saw Ford lock up with Omega at the start of the match I was done. I heard it was good but it's not my cup of tea. I don't have any desire to watch any intergender match so I will skip them.


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## JJKING13 (Jan 11, 2020)

The match was okay. I appreciate the effort of all involved. That said, it just isn't my thing. Just not a fan of men wrestling women. I think they would be best served to just stay away from things like that. At the end of the day they would best be served by asking - what good is going to come of this? If they do it again it should be as a part of a feud that involves the wrestler and their valet/manager. Example - Kip and Penelope v. Cody and Brandi.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

So many reasons this shit is awful:

* This is not equality. This is like those awful dudes who say “If you want equal rights, I should be able to punch you in the face.”

* It only works as a “promotion” to women if you present the narrative that men’s wrestling is where it’s at, which defeats the purpose. It also has to admit that wrestling is fake, after which there is no point.

* It’s not believable.

* If you’re simulating violence and it is men perpetrating the violence to the women...yeah.

Geeks like this sort of thing, because it’s all about spots without context to them. They think knowing it’s a work removes any sort of context. Unfortunately, things have context.


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## dan the marino (Oct 22, 2006)

Lucha Underground did it and it was fine there.

I think you can have intergender matches, you just have to treat them no differently than matches between two different weight classes. Why is, say, Britt Baker vs Jungle Boy a no yet a Luchasaurus vs Marko Stunt match (that will likely happen in the future when he turns) would have nobody bat an eye. Wrestling is scripted fellas sorry to break kayfabe. You can have Rey Mysterio give Big Show a hard fought match, with the former expectedly playing the underdog role win or lose, and nobody would question it.


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## TAC41 (Jun 8, 2016)

Not sure what the big deal is. They had Nyla Rose vs Riho on the first episode of Dynamite. 


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