# Punk VS MJF - Best Segment in AEW History?



## [email protected] (Oct 9, 2013)

No idea. Haven't been watching long. It was really good, but designed with both participants beginning the narratives for the feud to go forward. It felt like it. Nothing at all wrong with that, but both kept the disses intentionally corny and on the surface. The really good stuff will come later.


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## Mr316 (Dec 3, 2020)

Yes


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## Matthew Castillo (Jun 9, 2018)

It's certainly up there.


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## CMPunkRock316 (Jan 17, 2016)

Really, really good from both guys. 

This is definitely up there. It went longer than usual AEW promos but it was on point.


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## thatonewwefanguy (Feb 6, 2020)

microphone gold


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## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

That is what wrestling is when it's done right, that's how you get talent over, that's how you add heat to the feud. Two guys going at it on the microphone and not holding back. If AEW did this more often they'd be so much better, but they don't do this type of stuff consistently. More of this please, more promo time to build up feuds. 

Mic skills is what gets characters over, MJF is going to come out of this feud with Punk bigger than he ever has been. Again, if this was what took up most of AEW TV instead of spot fest wrestling and long matches, I would be all aboard the AEW train.


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## thorn123 (Oct 10, 2019)

Are matches segments? I'd say best promo. It was completely awesome. But I did love hangman/kenny vs bucks.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

I think so, but may have bias since it is fresh in my head. Certainly top three.


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## Ham and Egger (Dec 13, 2005)

Top 5 promo segment in its history.


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## Randy Lahey (Apr 14, 2014)

In terms of promos on AEW television, I'd rank them:

#1. Punk Return
#2. Punk-MJF
#3. Punk-Kingston
#4. Danielson-Page from last week (BD's clever heel turn was next level good)
#5. Baker-Soho


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## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

Absolutely. 

Incredible back and forth.


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## BroncoBuster3 (Apr 19, 2021)

Jericho's 'Cody' vignette still stands out to me. MJF carried this one well. There's still something off with Punk


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## JasmineAEW (Oct 19, 2020)

It was a great and fun segment, but I wouldn‘t call it the best in AEW history. For me, it wasn’t even the best one-on-one promo in AEW history. My favorite was the Mox-Kingston confrontation before last year’s “All Out.” I guess I just prefer serious and intense promos more than trading insults.


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## Sherlok4 (Nov 16, 2021)

It was great but most AEW fans would probably hate if these long promo segments become a regular thing

These marks would rather see 20 minute matches with flips or Young Bucks having a tag team match with no tags or Orange Cassidy doing his play kicks


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## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

Smark1995 said:


> Holy fucking shit that was Phenomenal! Best segment in company history?


Best Pomo-off i've seen in AEW History, perhaps one of the best in general.


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## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

Sherlok4 said:


> It was great but most AEW fans would probably hate if these long promo segments become a regular thing
> 
> These marks would rather see 20 minute matches with flips or Young Bucks having a tag team match with no tags or Orange Cassidy doing his play kicks


I wonder how someone would rather see a cold open with just flips or indy geeks instead of the magic that happened the first 16 minutes


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## thorn123 (Oct 10, 2019)

Long promos to start things off - last two weeks have been must see tv.

If it becomes regular, some will complain. If it always starts with a match, some will complain.

Lets just have a balance and a bit of unpredictability.


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## Thomazbr (Apr 26, 2009)

Randy Lahey said:


> In terms of promos on AEW television, I'd rank them:
> 
> #1. Punk Return
> #2. Punk-MJF
> ...


Just wondering, you saw Kingston-Moxley?


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## Blade Runner (Jan 24, 2012)

It was compelling for what it was. Maybe this will be the spark needed to light a fire under Punk and get his intensity back to where it should be. 

I'm all for it.


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## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I think so... only ones really in the same league are Punk/Kingston and Moxley/Kingston before Full Gear last year and I think I'd say it was better. The promo was incredible and the best segment I've seen in wrestling in years.


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## Randy Lahey (Apr 14, 2014)

Thomazbr said:


> Just wondering, you saw Kingston-Moxley?


not including PPVs


Thomazbr said:


> Just wondering, you saw Kingston-Moxley?


It was good but there was so few fans there that for me the best segments are the ones that have a huge crowd feeding the heat


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## Upstart474 (May 13, 2018)

The promos were long but very good. AEW should not all be about matches but good promos too (entertainment).


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## imperfecto (Oct 20, 2021)

It's not hard to be the best..


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## Nakahoeup (May 18, 2018)

I hate threads like these, like damn dude let the seg breath for a minute. All you do is give people a reason to over analize and nitpick. And I loved every minute of it.

Lets just all agree that great promos=great buildup= exciting matches.


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## deadcool (May 4, 2006)

What a segment. This is how you build a feud between 2 performers. Not only is it the best segment in AEW history, it's easily one of the best in ring promos of all time. 

Kudos to both MJF and Punk.


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## TonySirico (Sep 8, 2021)

it was a great segment. mjf is the best heel in the game and cm punk is batting 1.000 since he came back. just keeping it simple. the miz line was great. crowd also added a lot to that segment. super fucking hot.


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## TheFiend666 (Oct 5, 2019)

It was awesome. I might be alone on this, but I liked Kingston Vs Punk Promo better. That one gave off real energy and just hit different with me. Both great though


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## The Boy Wonder (Mar 29, 2008)

CM Punk got bested by MFJ in this promo exchange. Punk deserves credit for taking it in a face-to-face exchange. MJF is simply the best promo right now in the industry. It's one thing to give a promo in the ring with no one else - it's another when you can do it to someone's face.


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## TheFiend666 (Oct 5, 2019)

And call me crazy, but MJF should be the one to go over here when they have their match


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## Buhalovski (Jul 24, 2015)

This is how its done. Fuck the work rate stuff. I mean I am all for good wrestling but wrestling without god tier promos like that is nothing. If I want to watch good wrestling I'd just watch New Japan.

Still, my favourite promo battle was between Eddie and Mox, it's hard to top it.


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## Stylebender (Oct 12, 2019)

To all the people that have been talking about punk being ruined and bla bla. I told you so. It takes time.


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## Prized Fighter (Aug 31, 2016)

The best ever was Punk's debut entrance and promo. However, tonight is up there and gives any segment/match a run for it's money.


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## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> That is what wrestling is when it's done right, that's how you get talent over, that's how you add heat to the feud. Two guys going at it on the microphone and not holding back. If AEW did this more often they'd be so much better, but they don't do this type of stuff consistently. More of this please, more promo time to build up feuds.
> 
> Mic skills is what gets characters over, MJF is going to come out of this feud with Punk bigger than he ever has been. Again, if this was what took up most of AEW TV instead of spot fest wrestling and long matches, I would be all aboard the AEW train.


Nah, wrestling matches matter too; so no, they shouldn't get rid of them.



Stylebender said:


> To all the people that have been talking about punk being ruined and bla bla. I told you so. It takes time.


Yep, CM Punk wasn't a "flop" then, and he's *certainly* not a "flop" now.


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## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

Randy Lahey said:


> In terms of promos on AEW television, I'd rank them:
> 
> #1. Punk Return
> #2. Punk-MJF
> ...


The Eddie Kingston/Jon Moxley promo (on Dynamite before Full Gear last year), the Inner Circle/Pinnacle promo exchange (on Dynamite in late April before Blood & Guts), and the Cody Rhodes promo (on Dynamite before Full Gear 2019) are high up there too


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## phatbob426 (Feb 6, 2010)

AEW couldn't hit its mark on "the best segment in AEW history" without basing literally the ENTIRE SEGMENT on WWE.


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## Buhalovski (Jul 24, 2015)

phatbob426 said:


> AEW couldn't hit its mark on "the best segment in AEW history" without basing literally the ENTIRE SEGMENT on WWE.


I hate the cheap jabs at WWE but this time you are not right. This is actually a good thing, they shouldn't act like other companies doesnt exist. They had to talk about Punk's past at some point.


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## phatbob426 (Feb 6, 2010)

Buhalovski said:


> I hate the cheap jabs at WWE but this time you are not right. This is actually a good thing, they shouldn't act like other companies doesnt exist. They had to talk about Punk's past at some point.


Go back and re-watch it then. It was more than just bringing up CM Punk's past. CM Punk called MJF the Miz, the crowd chanted "Miz! Miz! Miz!", MJF mentioned John Cena, he did the "you can't see me" and said that he can see right through CM Punk.

Without WWE as a foundation, that segment literally had NOTHING.


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## Fearless Viper (Apr 6, 2019)

Needing WWE references to get their feud over lol.


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## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

Good stuff but I would put Jake the Snake cutting a promo on Cody on top as the best thing AEW has ever produced promo-wise. (a shame what happened afterwards did not follow up on it. Brodie should have been Jake's guy)


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## phatbob426 (Feb 6, 2010)

Before anyone responds to me on this thread or anywhere on this forum for not blindly coronating everything AEW does as the greatest thing ever, I must disclaim that I don't care if my criticisms are unpopular, right/wrong, or if they hurt anyone's feelings. It's my opinions and I'm not changing them to fit-in or to be popular/liked
around here or anywhere.

AEW should stick it to WWE by producing a superior product, not by opening their show with a 20 minutes segment where they're making WWE references every minute of the segment.

WWF and Steve Austin didn't succeed by coming out on WWF television and mentioning WCW all the time. Hell they didn't ever mention WCW even once, I don't think. They stuck it to WCW by putting Steve Austin out there and saying "Austin 3:16 says I just whooped your ass" to his opponents in the ring.

Seriously shut up about WWE and just put out a superior product. Use former WWE talent to do it, even. But all that mentioning WWE all the time says is that without WWE they've got nothing.


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## Ghost Lantern (Apr 11, 2012)

This is why wrestling will always be about story than in ring "work".


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## Nakahoeup (May 18, 2018)

The Boy Wonder said:


> CM Punk got bested by MFJ in this promo exchange. Punk deserves credit for taking it in a face-to-face exchange. MJF is simply the best promo right now in the industry. It's one thing to give a promo in the ring with no one else - it's another when you can do it to someone's face.


I wouldn't say he bested Punk because the "Miz" line got the biggest pop from everyone. Punk still hasn't lost a step on the mic. 

And honestly, everything CM Punk has said about the guys he's been feuding with has been more creative than the predictable(not saying that they're not good jabs) jabs thrown at him. Its just more fun to see how Punk can fuction back in the lions den. And he is knocking it out the park and putting the spotlight on everyone he been working with. Im starting to really like these guys who are showing more personality than anybody has shown in the "E" for years.

But having said that, this MJF kid is $.


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## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

phatbob426 said:


> Before anyone responds to me on this thread or anywhere on this forum for not blindly coronating everything AEW does as the greatest thing ever, I must disclaim that I don't care if my criticisms are unpopular, right/wrong, or if they hurt anyone's feelings. It's my opinions and I'm not changing them to fit-in or to be popular/liked
> around here or anywhere.
> 
> AEW should stick it to WWE by producing a superior product, not by opening their show with a 20 minutes segment where they're making WWE references every minute of the segment.
> ...


That's what happens when you cosplay: you are not real wrestlers, you are playing at one. You want to be a real wrestler, to be like the big boys. 

That was good stuff but yea mentioning them means you don't have an identity of your own.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

GL said:


> This is why wrestling will always be about story than in ring "work".


100% agreed. When I think of the top 100 things I would consider to be the best moments in wrestling history, several include specific moments that happe ed during a match but maybe only 2-3 would include an entire match. The moment we saw with their promos tonight is part of what we need to ignite another boom period. Not Punk vs QT for fifteen minutes.


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## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

Watched it once already and maybe I'll watch it again after some smoking [Maybe it'll be a better segment high lol].

However, it was just good in my opinion. I don't watch every AEW show and usually catch a lot of the matches/promos on Youtube so I can't rank if it's the best. So far, I'd say CM Punk's return sticks out in my mind because of the moment/atmosphere/etc.

I think this segment will get overrated because both are charismatic and great on the mic but the material they used was kinda hit or miss. Some of MJF's nicknames for Punk were kinda lame and him doing the whole robot imitations was pretty weak. Both of them used insults we've all heard before [Punk's UFC career, MJF looking like the Miz, MJF being rather underwhelming in his position after initially being seen as the rising star of the company, Punk retiring for 7 years instead of staying in wrestling, etc].


I wish instead of the more cartoonish insults, there was more heat in this feud. These two could have a passionate and intense feel of hatred towards each other and maybe they will eventually reach that point in future segments but it felt like they were just standing on a school playground and taking turns throwing insults at each other. So far, this is a rather heatless feud compared to where I'd prefer it.

Overall though, the segment was good. It won't stick out in my mind as an all-time great moment or anything but it could rank up there with one of the top segments [In WWE or AEW] this year.


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## Nakahoeup (May 18, 2018)

phatbob426 said:


> Before anyone responds to me on this thread or anywhere on this forum for not blindly coronating everything AEW does as the greatest thing ever, I must disclaim that I don't care if my criticisms are unpopular, right/wrong, or if they hurt anyone's feelings. It's my opinions and I'm not changing them to fit-in or to be popular/liked
> around here or anywhere.
> 
> AEW should stick it to WWE by producing a superior product, not by opening their show with a 20 minutes segment where they're making WWE references every minute of the segment.
> ...


I get what you're saying but WWE has been ruling wrestling with an iron fist for just about over 20 years with no competion. Unlike any other period in wrestling history, I mean they literally monopolized the industry. Its kinda hard not to metion them because they are "wrestling history" so to speak.


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## Buhalovski (Jul 24, 2015)

John Cena was CM Punk's arch nemesis and Triple H did everything possible to ruin his summer of Punk momentum. They are huge part of his past.

Less famous Miz was a bit too much but it was still okay. I still see nothing wrong mentioning WWE in this promo.


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## phatbob426 (Feb 6, 2010)

edit. sorry wrong thread.


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## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

This needs to be more than a 1 and done feud, getting stale CM Punk having a feud, winning and then moving on, if these 2 got a best of 3 series(for example) it could actually elevate MJF out of it, rather than just be another win for CM Punk


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## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

Fearless Viper said:


> Needing WWE references to get their feud over lol.


Uh, I'm pretty sure crowds were already going nuts for this feud WITHOUT any mentions of WWE beforehand.

It's totally fine for them to not pretend like WWE doesn't exist since the wrestling fans aren't dumb.



phatbob426 said:


> Go back and re-watch it then. It was more than just bringing up CM Punk's past. CM Punk called MJF the Miz, the crowd chanted "Miz! Miz! Miz!", MJF mentioned John Cena, he did the "you can't see me" and said that he can see right through CM Punk.
> 
> Without WWE as a foundation, that segment literally had NOTHING.


The crowd tonight that was rowdy throughout the first 20+ minutes says otherwise. That segment actually had EVERYTHING.


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## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

All both did was bringing up WWE references to make the crowd go wild...not sure if this should be the case for "best promo in AEW history"?! You could clearly see the people waiting for the next WWE reference to scream, inbetween it was them just waiting and shouting CM Punk. Other than that it was a good promo.


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## Jbardo37 (Aug 20, 2021)

Just watched it, absolutely incredible segment.


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## KingofKings1524 (Aug 27, 2007)

People are really bitching about them mentioning Punk and his past in WWE? This feud wouldn’t be half as personal if you have to stay away from everything that happened during his tenure there. You want them to form their own identity? Well this has to happen first. Then a year or so down the line they’ll have their own joint past to play off of. Until then, you have to start somewhere, and it wouldn’t mean as much if you can’t dig in each other’s pasts in order to kickstart the rivalry.


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## Razgriz (Jan 14, 2016)

I figure this is going to be one of many many promos to come.

Get the easy shit off the table first. The low hanging fruit... the cheap heat.
This feud is going to get verrrry personal IMO by the end. 

A lot of Punk's identity is built off of Punk's past. His relationship with Cena and HHH. There's no way that they can't not reference it. 

I'm okay with the way that it was done in the promo. THiis is different than the Bucks taking the piss out of the thigh slapping or the way WWE wrestlers watch TV. It's relevant to Punk as a whole.

Punk was doing Cena references in his own wrestling recently. It's important. 

Like everything else. I'm just going to have to sit and wait to see how everything plays out. Then judge where all of this falls.


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## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Fearless Viper said:


> Needing WWE references to get their feud over lol.


Because unlike WWE sheeps, AEW lives in the real world, not some BS universe where one ignores their past.


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## greasykid1 (Dec 22, 2015)

Yep, this was a VERY good segment and some great promo work from 2 of the best in the business. I don't see the value in us trying decide whether it's better than everything AEW has done so far. What does that matter? This was a great segment, it's the start of what looks to be an intense feud.

Personally, I found the references to Punk's past to be 100% relevant and made complete sense for MJF to bring them up. It's ridiculous to suggest that they should have done this promo without mentioning HHH or Cena. That is Punk's history. Where else could the actual deep cuts come from? Punk has been in AEW for a cup of coffee and, while he's had some great matches - which MJF did also reference - the personal stuff HAD to come from his troubled times like WWE and UFC, not his 100% success rate in AEW.


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## Fearless Viper (Apr 6, 2019)

The Definition of Technician said:


> Because unlike WWE sheeps, AEW lives in the real world, not some BS universe where one ignores their past.


More like they need to keep mentioning WWE in order to get the marks wet themselves. But hey, if it turns you on. Go for it.


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Chef's kiss that was a masterpiece of cunning linguistics. As for the Punk past in WWE @phatbob426 yeah it's low hanging fruit but punk hasn't been in AEW more than a year. There's not enough recent material to pick at.

If you want to say punk has become everything he ever hated in the wrestling business you have to mention his enemies in Hunter. You have to mention him cutting promos in AEW that he despised John Cena for. If you want to paint CM Punk as a hypocrite you HAVE to use those examples. You have to point out and twist his feelings from that time.

And Punk's rebuttal of MJF being a less popular Miz is criticism that has followed MJF his whole career. Sure it's rooted in WWE cause miz is in WWE but it wasn't a shot at WWE for no reason.

Believe me I hate the boo wwe cheap pops, I hate cheap pops in general, but in this context they made the segment. Mentioning WWE being a sloppy shop or making contract jokes is shit content designed to pop idiots. But Mentioning animosity like the well documented animosity between Punk and triple H is great. 

It doesn't work with everyone, for example Moxley or Cody cause they had decent careers in WWE compared to alot of their contemporaries. But for others it does.

@Fearless Viper you're not trying to start something are you or do you just not get the point of the promo like phatbob?


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## Fearless Viper (Apr 6, 2019)

Firefromthegods said:


> Chef's kiss that was a masterpiece of cunning linguistics. As for the Punk past in WWE @phatbob426 yeah it's low hanging fruit but punk hasn't been in AEW more than a year. There's not enough recent material to pick at.
> 
> If you want to say punk has become everything he ever hated in the wrestling business you have to mention his enemies in Hunter. You have to mention him cutting promos in AEW that he despised John Cena for. If you want to paint CM Punk as a hypocrite you HAVE to use those examples. You have to point out and twist his feelings from that time.
> 
> ...


No


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

I don't even think it was better than Punk vs Kingston personally. 

But its up there. Two masters of their craft.


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## The Sheik (Jul 10, 2017)

Wouldn't be in my top 5, but it was definitely a good segment, at least on MJF's part. He had some good lines.


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## CM Dunk05 (Apr 12, 2016)

GL said:


> This is why wrestling will always be about story than in ring "work".


Exactly. You need something to pull you in emotionally to make that match mean something otherwise it just feels hollow. Some may prefer watching two wrestlers just wrestle but wrestling is at its best when there is a story leading to the match. The viewer has to be invested for wrestling to work.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Nah - bit too wwe-lite for my tastes

comes nowhere close to Punk / Kingston


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## LethalWeapon (Oct 13, 2018)

Could have been much better without the little pot shots at WWE. They want to be the alternative but always have to get their little digs in.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

LethalWeapon said:


> Could have been much better without the little pot shots at WWE. They want to be the alternative but always have to get their little digs in.


Eeeh - they didn’t take potshots / they made reference to history there

there was nothing of ‘Fed bad’


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## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

Nakahoeup said:


> I get what you're saying but WWE has been ruling wrestling with an iron fist for just about over 20 years with no competion. Unlike any other period in wrestling history, I mean they literally monopolized the industry. Its kinda hard not to metion them because they are "wrestling history" so to speak.




Sorta. NWA was pretty much a monopoly too at least throughout its early years and into the 70s.. They were separate territories but the top guys who made the decisions [The NWA President and the owners of the major territories] pretty much completely controlled wrestling nationally. A laundry list of guys who ran afoul of the NWA got blackballed and either lost their opportunities in wrestling or went to Canada/Mexico.


But yeah, WWE is still a different case from those days. A pity it took 20 years to see real competition again. I never saw TNA as a direct competitor and the "Monday Night Wars II" was predictably a disaster.


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## DUD (Feb 21, 2021)

It beats everything other than the time Cody started going off about racism before his match with Ogogo.


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## holy (Apr 9, 2008)

I've been quite critical of AEW, but props to them for this segment tonight! As mentioned already, more of this and less of long matches...please! 

The best line:
MJF: "Judging from the bags under your eyes the only one who needs to go to sleep is you!" 🤣🤣🤣


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## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

You look like a methead, gray hair, baggy eyes,skinny, no muscles.. Punk is in the worst shape of his life and looks like shit.

Can't stop kissing ass and babies like he was John Cena, hasn't done anything particulary interesting other than beat jobbers since he got there...His promos have no intensity, purpose or flame anymore. 

Current Punk is trash and the worst version of himself and MJF was talking like a true fan and said it himself.."You are not you anymore"..I felt almost like it was me cutting the promo.

He also brought Punk's intensity back for a bit, great stuff from MJF, great stuff AEW. Has to be said.


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

It's almost as if Punk knows what he's doing.


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## ShadowCounter (Sep 1, 2016)

Sherlok4 said:


> It was great but most AEW fans would probably hate if these long promo segments become a regular thing
> 
> These marks would rather see 20 minute matches with flips or Young Bucks having a tag team match with no tags or Orange Cassidy doing his play kicks


And you marks are longing to turn AEW into WWE 2.0 because the original version is shit and just can't go anymore. You're right about 1 thing though. An occasional long promo is cool. One or more a week is death....see current era WWE for confirmation. Boring show that's dropping viewers and respect by the month.


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## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

Randy Lahey said:


> In terms of promos on AEW television, I'd rank them:
> 
> #1. Punk Return
> #2. Punk-MJF
> ...


People quickly forget Jericho had some freaking amazing promos earlier in AEW's existence. 

But yeah, I would agree this is the best.


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## rich110991 (Aug 27, 2020)

Loved it


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## Thomazbr (Apr 26, 2009)

Punk also said what many of us were thinking:

That MJF really is just The Miz.


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## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

Punk/Kingston or this. One of the two is my top promo.


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## Irish Jet (Nov 15, 2011)

Easily.

MJF is so far ahead of anything in the industry it's actually ridiculous. He's literally never not nailed a promo. The WWE would give him a blank cheque to get on board.


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## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

Thomazbr said:


> Punk also said what many of us were thinking:
> 
> That MJF really is just The Miz.


Partially true, sadly as good as MJF is on the mic, he's even smaller and less intimidaring than The Miz.


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## Irish Jet (Nov 15, 2011)

Soul Rex said:


> Partially true, sadly as good as MJF is on the mic, he's even smaller and less intimidaring than The Miz.


LOL get the fuck out of here with this shit. He looks far more athletic - he _is_ far more athletic. If Miz tried some of that stuff MJF was doing vs Darby every ligament in his body would tear. 

And I like Miz but he looks like a frog. His face is punchable and not a good way. Maxwell has genuinely the perfect look for a smarmy cowardly heel. It actually wouldn't work at all if he was bigger.


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## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

I wouldn't be surprised if MJF takes his research notes from this place as well as reddit and not just Twitter. 

There have been times where it felt like his material is inspired by some of the rants here. Smart guy if you ask me. Plenty of perfect whining material for a perfect heel here. 

Plus the babyfaces get to retort to these complaints. Everyone's happy.


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## DUD (Feb 21, 2021)

Erik. said:


> It's almost as if Punk knows what he's doing.


No way man. The fans on the Internet are so smart and know everything.


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## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

Irish Jet said:


> LOL get the fuck out of here with this shit. He looks far more athletic - he _is_ far more athletic. If Miz tried some of that stuff MJF was doing vs Darby every ligament in his body would tear.
> 
> And I like Miz but he looks like a frog. His face is punchable and not a good way. *Maxwell has genuinely the perfect look for a smarmy cowardly heel. It actually wouldn't work at all if he was bigger.*


So you have to be small in order to be a good heel now? I've read some ridiculous crap on here, but this one deserves a nice spot.

Listen MJF may be better than The Miz on the stick, but he's way smaller, you saw how tall looks Punk next him? The Miz is the same height as Punk.. And The Miz was considered small and non-beliavable, one of the less credible world champion.

MJF is a fucking midget, I didn't make this thread to say that, I was actually giving him props, but it's amazing how much his fans are so delusional when it comes to accept this.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Soul Rex said:


> You look like a methead, gray hair, baggy eyes,skinny, no muscles.. Punk is in the worst shape of his life and looks like shit.
> 
> Can't stop kissing ass and babies like he was John Cena, hasn't done anything particulary interesting other than beat jobbers since he got there...His promos have no intensity, purpose or flame anymore.
> 
> ...


Punk has been playing you like a fiddle

for all our smarkiness, we’re still just marks


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Forum Dud said:


> No way man. The fans on the Internet are so smart and know everything.


Punk working so many people is glorious. 

Such a master.


----------



## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Punk has been playing you like a fiddle
> 
> for all our smarkiness, we’re still just marks





Erik. said:


> It's almost as if Punk knows what he's doing.


It's ridiculous, because Punk has been literally bad and it's obviously not all intentional, he's just not at his prime anymore.

Him using that in the storyline is nice, but if you really are going to come here to tell me it was all of his plan to be and look so trash, you are even more deluded than these people you call "marks".

I've called Punk a genius before and I've followed his career closer than anybody... But don't be fucking fools.


----------



## thorwold (Dec 19, 2015)

It was really very good. I think it outdoes Punk and Kingston because there was no way for Punk to come back in that one other than to tip heelish, which would have been great if he had actually turned, but as he didn't I think it sort of lessens it some looking back on it, whereas the easy babyface-heel dynamic of this one ensured it was always going to go down smoother.

Also, I think the couple people trying to lol at it are sort of... Well, they're kind of the same as the people who see a flip or a dive in a match and cease to be able to see any semblance of psychology. 

The back and forth here was pretty clearly defined as MJF calling Punk out on having gone soft, and being a shadow of his former self, and Punk thinking MJF was a pathetic try-hard. That's it. All the rest is bells and whistles. 

The idea that the entire thing was about WWE is brainless in the extreme. There's the one Miz dig, which was putting WWE over more than being a dig at them All the rest of it, I mean god forbid that they use Punk's history to elevate the present, right? It's not like that isn't a basic tenet of wrestling. Just because WWE wants to pretend like nobody else exists doesn't mean that anybody anywhere else in the world is going to practice that kind of isolationism. Like... If we don't mention them people won't know they're there. What bravery.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

phatbob426 said:


> AEW couldn't hit its mark on "the best segment in AEW history" without basing literally the ENTIRE SEGMENT on WWE.


They didn't insult your intelligence though. 

They let you know that other wrestling companies exist, other wrestlers exist outside of AEW and used it in a promo. 

Only a WWE fan could come in and complain about something so stupid.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Soul Rex said:


> It's ridiculous, because Punk has been literally bad and it's obviously not all intentional, he's just not at his prime anymore.
> 
> Him using that in the storyline is nice, but if you really are going to come here to tell me it was all of his plan to be and look so trash, you are even more deluded than these people you call "marks".
> 
> I've called Punk a genius before and I've followed his career closer than anybody... But don't be fucking fools.


Its not our fault you don't get it. 

So ask yourself, who's the real fool?


----------



## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

Erik. said:


> Its not our fault you don't get it.
> 
> So ask yourself, who's the real fool?


You are the fools, you're giving Punk props he doesn't deserve, this is actually hilarious.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Soul Rex said:


> You are the fools, you're over crediting Punk, this is actually hilarious.


Or you've been worked and have resorted to name calling. 

That indeed is hilarious.


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 9, 2013)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Punk has been playing you like a fiddle
> 
> for all our smarkiness, we’re still just marks


This is the way. This is why it is supposed to be so much fun even for the IWC. You'll see it denied left and right though. The word "shoot" is going to be used a lot here where it doesn't belong.


----------



## DRose1994 (Nov 12, 2020)

Punk is the ideal weight for his size/age at this point in time. To say he’s in the worst shape of his life is just off base. He’s been training MMA for awhile now, and probably walks around 10-15lbs heavier than the weight he fought at a few years ago. He looks leaner than ever, and there’s a functional strength that remains there as well.

He looks tighter than he did in 2013.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Soul Rex said:


> It's ridiculous, because Punk has been literally bad and it's obviously not all intentional, he's just not at his prime anymore.
> 
> Him using that in the storyline is nice, but if you really are going to come here to tell me it was all of his plan to be and look so trash, you are even more deluded than these people you call "marks".
> 
> I've called Punk a genius before and I've followed his career closer than anybody... But don't be fucking fools.


in breaking news, online wrestling mark says wrestler who said ‘its all calculated’ weeks ago was lying. Wrestling mark declares ‘its not all calculated’

lol, you‘re a strange dude


----------



## AuthorOfPosts (Feb 9, 2020)

It was good but 80% of the credit should probably go to WWE seeing as the segment would be nothing without the references to them.


----------



## The People's H2O (Jan 21, 2013)

Punk got verbally smacked by MJF.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Soul Rex said:


> You are the fools, you're giving Punk props he doesn't deserve, this is actually hilarious.


The best part is 12 months ago Erik was shitting on CM Punk.


----------



## Irish Jet (Nov 15, 2011)

AuthorOfPosts said:


> It was good but 80% of the credit should probably go to WWE seeing as the segment would be nothing without the references to them.


They're referencing the wrestling industry and Punk's legit history. It's no cheaper than mentioning Rosie O'Donnell. 

Jesus if you guys were around in the 90's you'd be shitting on the NWO for the WWF references lmao.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Chip Chipperson said:


> The best part is 12 months ago Erik was shitting on CM Punk.


you’ve never changed your mind in a 12month period?


----------



## Jedah (Jul 16, 2017)

I liked Punk's promos with Kingston better than this one.

But this was a good start. I hope to see it become even more intense as this feud blooms.


----------



## SuperstarSlyme (Oct 25, 2021)

MJF is young as shit he'll bulk up in the next few years


----------



## SuperstarSlyme (Oct 25, 2021)

As for the segment AEW needs MJF ngl. If im there im extending his contract like 5 years and giving him big money


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

Soul Rex said:


> You are the fools, you're giving Punk props he doesn't deserve, this is actually hilarious.


So who deserves the props here? MJF? Do you really think MJF and Punk didnt discuss the material before going out there? It only happened because Punk was on-board with it.


----------



## Kopros_The_Great (Jun 26, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you’ve never changed your mind in a 12month period?


He doesn't need to. He's always right.


----------



## Whoanma (Apr 5, 2016)




----------



## Yukoncornelius (Mar 12, 2021)

I’d love to see MJF give Punk his first loss but I don’t see Punk losing just yet. He has been doing a slow build from the beginning so I am pretty excited to see where Punk ends up going after MJF. This will be his biggest test and this will also put MJF at another level. 

I’d prefer MJF to be the next TNT champion but I also would like to see Punk go and have a match against the world champion at one point whoever that may be.


----------



## Yukoncornelius (Mar 12, 2021)

Btw, that promo was great for the both of them and for AEW to bring in more fans with it being at the beginning of the episode. MJF is one of the best in the business if not the best on the mic.


----------



## Seafort (Jun 5, 2014)

Soul Rex said:


> So you have to be small in order to be a good heel now? I've read some ridiculous crap on here, but this one deserves a nice spot.
> 
> Listen MJF may be better than The Miz on the stick, but he's way smaller, you saw how tall looks Punk next him? The Miz is the same height as Punk.. And The Miz was considered small and non-beliavable, one of the less credible world champion.
> 
> MJF is a fucking midget, I didn't make this thread to say that, I was actually giving him props, but it's amazing how much his fans are so delusional when it comes to accept this.


He’s not prototypical WWE size, which is why Ive suggested that he would likely be a manager there as opposed to Miz 2.0. Vince or Bruce might see his value as a much better Johnny Polo then as the next long term heel champion.


----------



## rich110991 (Aug 27, 2020)

Love everything about the storyline but also…

MJF > Miz on every level, and I like Miz.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Punk has been playing you like a fiddle
> 
> for all our smarkiness, we’re still just marks


*I don't care if he told us 2 weeks in that we're going to get tired of him to orchestrate a slow burn heel turn or bring back the intense tweener that made him who he is. He should not be wrestling jobbers every Friday to 500,000 viewers. He should be involved in high profile programs like this minus the QT Marshall bullshit. If he needs to fight a jobber, let him squash them and cut a promo like MJF, instead of having a competitive 15-minute match with them.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

The Legit DMD said:


> *I don't care if he told us 2 weeks in that we're going to get tired of him to orchestrate a slow burn heel turn or bring back the intense tweener that made him who he is. He should not be wrestling jobbers every Friday to 500,000 viewers. He should be involved in high profile programs like this minus the QT Marshall bullshit. If he needs to fight a jobber, let him squash them and cut a promo like MJF, instead of having a competitive 15-minute match with them.*


it literally ties in with the story

MJF says he is washed up and struggling to beat nobodies - and no matter what Punk says back, MJF is right - its proven right after


----------



## hardcorewrasslin (Jun 29, 2016)

Soul Rex said:


> Partially true, sadly as good as MJF is on the mic, he's even smaller and less intimidaring than The Miz.


He’s miles better on the mic tho. He’d kill Miz.


----------



## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

Erik. said:


> Or you've been worked and have resorted to name calling.
> 
> That indeed is hilarious.


The problem here is you are telling me I'm getting worked, there is no way no one is getting worked by this because the premise is pretty clear. "Punk had a perfect plan into making us believe he is not that good anymore" and this is when I'm telling you, YOU ARE THE ONE GETTING WORKED by believing this.

You are looking at this in the simplest and naivest of ways, making Punk look better than he actually is, let me break it down for you.

Cm Punk came in AEW knowing he's not that good anymore, he's was out for 7 years and always knew he could come back as a failure. "I didn't know if I still had it, I didn't know if this people would care", this is not an storyline, this Punk spoking his own true, he knew than sitting in his couch, getting old and being out of touch, he would not be as good as he was in his prime.

HE DIDN'T WORK this, he USED this as a work which is different. His promos were boring and soft and relied on pandering the crowd.. In sense you can say he did this on purpose, but he clearly he didn't have that much fire or motivation to cut great promos anymore, so he just did what he wanted to do even tho he knew people would get tired of this.

His matches and his little feuds were bad, but he used to this heat up, using guys like Darby Allin that are easy to work with, he was trying, using this as a experiment to see if he could work a match anymore, because he actually didn't know, you can see Punk is sloppier, slower and less coordinated than ever, but every match he proggresed a bit, he wasn't bad on purpose, he was actually taking his time to get in ring shape.

His irrelevant feuds with guys like Kingston, Mashall, Fish, etc. were just a warm up, he wanted to prove himself without getting much spotlight against less relevant guys, because he knew he really didn't have that laverage to get in the real fire yet... HE DID this out neccesity.

Punk has been slowly getting himself on rythim again while you all think he's been this bad just because he wanted to be. It makes no sense, because things like in his horrible physical shape can not be fake and if you're really a Punk mark you can clearly see Punk has not been really feeling himself.

If you really think this all have been a perfect plan from Punk, I'm sorry but you are an extreme fool.


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

Come to think of it, they mentioned in this very promo how Punk never once mentioned MJF in his interviews ever since he joined. As he said, it was by design so he can bring it up in the feud when it happens. He picked Darby, who MJF recently beat for a reason. MJF has been jealous of Darby calling him the second pillar behind him because he was actually jealous of the fact that Punk thinks Darby is better than MJF. All of this was carefully planned clearly. MJF/Darby feud was clearly the precursor to Punk feud, only for Punk to call him out on his insecurities.

Punk also pointed out how Chicago is a second city because it was burned down and they built it back up right on top of the ashes and smoldering embers. This is him referring to Punk burned out by WWE and now he is building his legacy back up to not just be remembered as a guy they never pushed but something more.

Punk knows what the fuck he's doing and anyone that discredits him is either blind or just stupid.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it literally ties in with the story
> 
> MJF says he is washed up and struggling to beat nobodies - and no matter what Punk says back, MJF is right - its proven right after


*The problem is long matches on pay-per-view with Punk lose value when everyone gets to do it on free television weekly. Want an elongated squash? Give them 5 minutes-not two segments through a commercial. It's absurd and it does nothing for anyone.*


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

The Legit DMD said:


> *The problem is long matches on pay-per-view with Punk lose value when everyone gets to do it on free television weekly. Want an elongated squash? Give them 5 minutes-not two segments through a commercial. It's absurd and it does nothing for anyone.*


Punk is not the best in the world anymore. He needs more than a 2 minute squash to beat someone like QT. That IS the story. MJF pointed it out, Punk agreed. Then the match happened and there was proof.


----------



## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

zkorejo said:


> Come to think of it, they mentioned in this very promo how Punk never once mentioned MJF in his interviews ever since he joined. As he said, it was by design so he can bring it up in the feud when it happens. He picked Darby, who MJF recently beat for a reason. MJF has been jealous of Darby calling him the second pillar behind him because he was actually jealous of the fact that Punk thinks Darby is better than MJF. All of this was carefully planned clearly. MJF/Darby feud was clearly the precursor to Punk feud, only for Punk to call him out on his insecurities.
> 
> Punk also pointed out how Chicago is a second city because it was burned down and they built it back up right on top of the ashes and smoldering embers. This is him referring to Punk burned out by WWE and now he is building his legacy back up to not just be remembered as a guy they never pushed but something more.
> 
> Punk knows what the fuck he's doing and anyone that discredits him is either blind or just stupid.


That has nothing to do with him being the worst version of himself which is what I'm pointing out, this was a reality used as work, but not a work.

Nothing you said has anything to do with my argument. So IDK if this reply was for me.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Soul Rex said:


> Partially true, sadly as good as MJF is on the mic, he's even smaller and less intimidaring than The Miz.


Not even close to true there is nothing intimidating about the miz whatsoever.


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

Soul Rex said:


> That has nothing to do with him being the worst version of himself which is what I'm pointing out, this was a reality used as work, but not a work.
> 
> Nothing you said has anything to do with my argument. So IDK if this reply was for me.


No it wasn't for you, just something I realized thanks to this thread. 

You are sounding exactly like the people here who thought Hangman/Omega will go nowhere, Hangman will never be a champion and this story will never have a proper pay off. 

Just because you aren't used to being worked at this level by other companies, it doesn't mean it's undoable. Punk of all people is the master of working the smarks. Pipebomb promo still has people arguing if it was shoot, a worked shoot or a complete work. 

If you think this isn't something that Punk pre-planned. Then you are really underestimating CM Punk. Or maybe you're just used to wrestling stories being dumb.


----------



## Irish Jet (Nov 15, 2011)

Soul Rex said:


> So you have to be small in order to be a good heel now? I've read some ridiculous crap on here, but this one deserves a nice spot.
> 
> Listen MJF may be better than The Miz on the stick, but he's way smaller, you saw how tall looks Punk next him? The Miz is the same height as Punk.. And The Miz was considered small and non-beliavable, one of the less credible world champion.
> 
> MJF is a fucking midget, I didn't make this thread to say that, I was actually giving him props, but it's amazing how much his fans are so delusional when it comes to accept this.


What is it with this place and guys immediately opening with a strawmen argument?

No, dummy, I did not say you have to be small to be a good heel - I said MJF's particular character wouldn't work if he was a big man. Not all heels have to be the same but MJF's look is perfect for what he is - A smarmy little shit. He should never be physically dominating the opponent unless it's a Marko Stunt but you can still put over his athleticism and skill. 

I don't care how small he is. The Miz and Punk's size was never their issue. Neither have the athletic background that MJF has and it shows with their physique - he's clearly got more bulk than either and has definition where they do not. That said I could still buy any of them as champions, Miz just looks the least believable because he's a goof from reality TV. MJF is the same size as AJ styles ffs.


----------



## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

Erik. said:


> It's almost as if Punk knows what he's doing.


He may be smart enough to know this. To purposely come in looking half ass, with a huge smile and just waiting for the moment to heel it up more, darken his beard etc lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

The Legit DMD said:


> *The problem is long matches on pay-per-view with Punk lose value when everyone gets to do it on free television weekly. Want an elongated squash? Give them 5 minutes-not two segments through a commercial. It's absurd and it does nothing for anyone.*


eeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.... I get what you're saying - but its Punk

he's gonna dra PPV regardless if he does a squash between ppvs or 30min thumb war skits with 2.0


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Soul Rex said:


> The problem here is you are telling me I'm getting worked, there is no way no one is getting worked by this because the premise is pretty clear. "Punk had a perfect plan into making us believe he is not that good anymore" and this is when I'm telling you, YOU ARE THE ONE GETTING WORKED by believing this.
> 
> You are looking at this in the simplest and naivest of ways, making Punk look better than he actually is, let me break it down for you.
> 
> ...


You should have named this novel "When CM Punk worked me in 2021"


----------



## brewjo32 (Nov 24, 2015)

Punk who was known as a straight edge personality has lost his edge. At least he hasn't gone like Christian, Edge, and others who show up gray and then get introduced to a bottle of Just for Men and suddenly they are youthful. Still he looks like CM Skunk now. He's not a one man rebellion which is why I liked him back in WWE. At least he still had great intro music.


----------



## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Not even close to true there is nothing intimidating about the miz whatsoever.


Dude I'm talking about size, you are not appreciating it well because you are not picturing how small is MJF compared to The MIz.

MJF is super short, and you all downplay this fact a lot. 



zkorejo said:


> No it wasn't for you, just something I realized thanks to this thread.
> 
> You are sounding exactly like the people here who thought Hangman/Omega will go nowhere, Hangman will never be a champion and this story will never have a proper pay off.
> 
> ...


My point is he didn't plan "being shit", he was just shit, he's still shit in fact, just worked a good promo, but he's still out of his prime.

Everything else he planned is not really impresive to me, so I'm not really arguing any of that, not really my point.


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo! (Mar 29, 2021)

phatbob426 said:


> Before anyone responds to me on this thread or anywhere on this forum for not blindly coronating everything AEW does as the greatest thing ever, I must disclaim that I don't care if my criticisms are unpopular, right/wrong, or if they hurt anyone's feelings. It's my opinions and I'm not changing them to fit-in or to be popular/liked
> around here or anywhere.
> 
> AEW should stick it to WWE by producing a superior product, not by opening their show with a 20 minutes segment where they're making WWE references every minute of the segment.
> ...


Just means that unlike WWE, AEW doesn't pretend the rest of the wrestling world doesn't exist. They talk about Impact, they talk about AAA, they talk about NJPW, even NWA. They don't act like their company exists in a bubble. They've had titles from those companies defended and change hands on their shows.


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

Soul Rex said:


> Dude I'm talking about size, you are not apreacing it well because you are not picturing how small is MJF compared to The MIz.
> 
> MJF is super short, and you all downplay this fact a lot.
> 
> ...


Punk always was the promo guy first. His in-ring stuff was always just "good". He never was a Kurt Angle or Daniel Bryan in the ring. 

So being shit promo wise or always being happy or not dropping bombs is like the majority percentage of the grievance.


----------



## Seth Grimes (Jul 31, 2015)

Great work from MJF, but it's obvious that a lot of these things were all saved for him. It's been obvious, considering no other opponents have said the most obvious shit to CM Punk, about his time in UFC, the taking his ball and going home, the fact that he's been a boring ass-kisser since he came back. This is like giving MJF a penalty kick against CM Punk, it's so easy to score. Also note how the biggest reactions were references to WWE, gotta love how all the promos that AEW fans like the most, involve them mentioning WWE lmao I think the best part was when he compared CM Punk to John Cena, because when you think of it, yeah, Punk has basically been doing the things that CM Punk used to say in promos about Cena. Also a great point from CM Punk to basically call him the lesser known version of The Miz. Though, again, they can only make this shit work by referencing the WWE for those easy pops/knowledge.


----------



## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

I never really thought to put things in a numbered list but IMO there were too many WWE references and also Punk put MJF below someone in the WWE who mainly loses all their big matches. It was entertaining though.


----------



## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

zkorejo said:


> Punk always was the promo guy first. His in-ring stuff was always just "good". He never was a Kurt Angle or Daniel Bryan in the ring.
> 
> So being shit promo wise or always being happy or not dropping bombs is like the majority percentage of the grievance.


Not only the promos, his mannerism, his aura and intensity, his look is also a big problem.


----------



## FriedTofu (Sep 29, 2014)

It was great. But I felt the potshots at WWE from Punk was pretty lame. MJF is his own man. No need to allude to HHH or Miz imo. MJF using WWE to jab at Punk made more sense.


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

Soul Rex said:


> Not only the promos, his mannerism, his aura and intensity, his look is also a big problem.


Looks just fine to me. The only difference I see is grey in his beard which I think looks cool. Looks exactly like CM Punk just 7 years older.


----------



## the_hound (Jun 14, 2016)




----------



## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

zkorejo said:


> Looks just fine to me. The only difference I see is grey in his beard which I think looks cool. Looks exactly like CM Punk just 7 years older.


He's like 30 pounds lighter, WWE Punk wasn't exactly a monster, but he would put a fit shirt and he would look middle sized.

Now any shit looks baggy and he looks like he is sick.


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

Soul Rex said:


> He's like 30 pounds lighter, WWE Punk wasn't exactly a monster, but he would put a fit shirt and he would look middle sized.
> 
> Now any shit looks baggy and he looks like he is sick.


I disagree. You're exaggerating. When he is in his ring gear he seems just fine and exactly how Punk used to look when he was the longest reigning champion in WWE. 10-15 pounds lighter at max.


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

Just posting this as I don't think it has been mentioned in the thread (at least not page 4+).


----------



## Punk_316 (Sep 9, 2014)

Fantastic segment.


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Not even close to true there is nothing intimidating about the miz whatsoever.


When there was a real life fight on fear factor Miz ran in and broke it up so he can look after himself.

He is also believable as tough guy in the Marine. Just because he has played chicken shit heel on TV for 15 years doesn't mean can't hold his own.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

validreasoning said:


> When there was a real life fight on fear factor Miz ran in and broke it up so he can look after himself.
> 
> He is also believable as tough guy in the Marine. Just because he has played chicken shit heel on TV for 15 years doesn't mean can't hold his own.


Nothing about what you just said gives any credibility to the MIZ being intimidating lmfao.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Soul Rex said:


> Dude I'm talking about size, you are not appreciating it well because you are not picturing how small is MJF compared to The MIz.
> 
> MJF is super short, and you all downplay this fact a lot.
> 
> ...


Being a big goofy dipshit doesn't intimidate anyone the guys a fucking spaz lmfao hes not more intimidating then MJF whatsoever the guy is a laughing stock theres no working around how cringe inducing the miz is.....no ones scared of that guy at all.


----------



## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

MJF is small, but he's big enough to be credible vs Punk and the rest of the AEW main event scene. Punk isn't some big guy, he was a welterweight in the UFC and carried plenty of body fat.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Some wild takes in here to avoid saying it's good Punk is finally doing something interesting


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

AuthorOfPosts said:


> It was good but 80% of the credit should probably go to WWE seeing as the segment would be nothing without the references to them.


This line of thinking is so tired, like CM Punk shouldn’t be allowed to reference massive portions of his career because it happened somewhere else. No promotion does this apart from WWE. It makes logical sense for them to do this, it’s illogical to not do it. The only reason you think like this is because WWE have conditioned you to think it’s normal.


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

The Legit DMD said:


> *The problem is long matches on pay-per-view with Punk lose value when everyone gets to do it on free television weekly. Want an elongated squash? Give them 5 minutes-not two segments through a commercial. It's absurd and it does nothing for anyone.*


Except those long matches add more to the story since it's proving MJF right about CM Punk "struggling" in the ring.


----------



## Mr. King Of Kings (May 16, 2006)

I think so.


----------



## AuthorOfPosts (Feb 9, 2020)

Erik. said:


> This line of thinking is so tired, like CM Punk shouldn’t be allowed to reference massive portions of his career because it happened somewhere else. No promotion does this apart from WWE. It makes logical sense for them to do this, it’s illogical to not do it. The only reason you think like this is because WWE have conditioned you to think it’s normal.


You AEW marks are annoyingly dumb. I didn't say they shouldn't be allowed to do it. Fact is that without the WWE references it would've just been an okay segment which means there was a reliance on WWE for that segment.

Need WWE for the segment but no one should dare say AEW needed WWE in any way. Wanting to eat your cake and still have it.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

AuthorOfPosts said:


> You AEW marks are annoyingly dumb. I didn't say they shouldn't be allowed to do it. Fact is that without the WWE references it would've just been an okay segment which means there was a reliance on WWE for that segment.
> 
> Need WWE for the segment but no one should dare say AEW needed WWE in any way. Wanting to eat your cake and still have it.


And you WWE marks are pathetically predictable.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

RapShepard said:


> Some wild takes in here to avoid saying it's good Punk is finally doing something interesting


*Nah Rap, 3 months of mediocrity was all part of Tony Khan's master plan.*


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

DammitChrist said:


> Except those long matches add more to the story since it's proving MJF right about CM Punk "struggling" in the ring.


I'm really surprised no one really got this. 

The match quite literally followed MJF blasting Punk for taking too long against nobodies.


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

Erik. said:


> This line of thinking is so tired, like CM Punk shouldn’t be allowed to reference massive portions of his career because it happened somewhere else. No promotion does this apart from WWE. It makes logical sense for them to do this, it’s illogical to not do it. The only reason you think like this is because WWE have conditioned you to think it’s normal.


Yep, seriously why is it perfectly acceptable for AEW to bring up NJPW, Impact/TNA, AAA, and NWA with very little complaints; but yet there's always this weird BIG outrage whenever they make references to WWE? 

I just love how those who get offended by the WWE references/digs keep making pointless recommendations for the company to "focus on producing their own good product," but yet they JUST did that recently with the Darby Allin vs MJF feud (as 1 example of AEW doing their own original feuds); which turned out to be great.


----------



## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

My theory on Punk is based on that he mentioned he has a few years he wants inside AEW. 
I feel now more than before he purposely is holding back on the mic and in the ring to slowly build it as his tenure grows in the company. I think he wants more fires to light his ass to give him more of an edge. I expect a heel Punk maybe mid next year and then back to a face Punk before he leaves. It's all planned in advanced and Punk knows exactly how his journey will be in AEW.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

The Legit DMD said:


> *Nah Rap, 3 months of mediocrity was all part of Tony Khan's master plan.*


It's just weird like either

A. Punk can't help his mediocreness due to rust so they made him being mediocre the story. Which still means it was mediocre just acknowledged. 

Or

B. He was purposefully being mediocre to do some storyline about him stopping being mediocre. Which meant he we got underwhelming stuff on purpose. 

Either way don't find much to praise prior to the Eddie promo


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

DammitChrist said:


> Yep, seriously why is it perfectly acceptable for AEW to bring up NJPW, Impact/TNA, AAA, and NWA with very little complaints; but yet there's always this weird BIG outrage whenever they make references to WWE?
> 
> I just love how those who get offended by the WWE references/digs keep making pointless recommendationsfor the company to "focus on producing their own good product," but yet they JUST did that recently with the Darby Allin vs MJF feud (as 1 example of AEW doing their own original feuds); which turned out to be great.


Because apparently its small time to mention the history of a man who spent 9 long years in the WWE. 

Personally, I think its quite refreshing to know that a wrestling company doesn't actually see itself as the only promotion in the world and are big enough to have their talent mention the likes of Wrestlemania on their show as well as other talents names, who you know..... Exist. 

But its an easy way for institutionalised WWE fans to nitpick over a promo. They are so used to being stuck in the WWE universe that it blows their mind that a wrestling company acknowledges others.


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

The Legit DMD said:


> *Nah Rap, 3 months of mediocrity was all part of Tony Khan's master plan.*


I'm glad that you can finally admit that this was all part of the plan, but just know that you're completely off about the "mediocrity" since CM Punk's first 3 months were pretty solid


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

Erik. said:


> Because apparently its small time to mention the history of a man who spent 9 long years in the WWE.
> 
> Personally, I think its quite refreshing to know that a wrestling company doesn't actually see itself as the only promotion in the world and are big enough to have their talent mention the likes of Wrestlemania on their show as well as other talents names, who you know..... Exist.
> 
> But its an easy way for institutionalised WWE fans to nitpick over a promo. They are so used to being stuck in the WWE universe that it blows their mind that a wrestling company acknowledges others.


Their worlds are going to be shattered then once Kazuchika Okada, Tetsuya Naito, and Hiroshi Tanahashi eventually show up live at different points in the future.


----------



## AuthorOfPosts (Feb 9, 2020)

Erik. said:


> And you WWE marks are pathetically predictable.


Who's a WWE mark? Majority of people have zero issue with saying WWE sucks majority of the time.

When it comes to AEW though, not only can you not say anything sucks but you can't even say "yeah it was good but they were relying on WWE for that segment". Not even saying it was bad.

But that's the go to for you guys though, not making sense in a discussion so everyone must be a WWE mark.


----------



## AuthorOfPosts (Feb 9, 2020)

An AEW support group starts up whenever someone doesn't give 100% credit over everything AEW does. 

Who's institutionalised again? You guys are the most blind fans in existence. Wondering if ECW fans were this ridiculous.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

AuthorOfPosts said:


> Who's a WWE mark? Majority of people have zero issue with saying WWE sucks majority of the time.
> 
> When it comes to AEW though, not only can you not say anything sucks but you can't even say "yeah it was good but they were relying on WWE for that segment". Not even saying it was bad.
> 
> But that's the go to for you guys though, not making sense in a discussion so everyone must be a WWE mark.


I've said plenty of things suck, this is where you're wrong. I just dont go on to an internet forum to vent my disgust at nonsensical things about wrestling. 

I tend to discuss things I enjoy.

They didn’t “need” it as you so put it. 

MJF has done countless great segments without mentioning WWE. Punk has done great promos without mentioning WWE. They used real life because things being based on real life and not ignoring reality is better than the WWE world.


----------



## RLT1981 (Aug 3, 2021)

thats the best segment in wrestling in years from either company.


----------



## AuthorOfPosts (Feb 9, 2020)

CM Punk was extremely boring and pointless until the Kingston stuff that recently started.

Fact is he's never been great in the ring and he doesn't seem to have many ideas going forward. Leaning heavily on his WWE work is all he has. Even though they killed his love for wrestling apparently. Ironic.


----------



## AuthorOfPosts (Feb 9, 2020)

Erik. said:


> I've said plenty of things suck, this is where you're wrong. I just dont go on to an internet forum to vent my disgust at nonsensical things about wrestling.
> 
> I tend to discuss things I enjoy.
> 
> ...


And?

They leaned heavily on WWE and people are saying they leaned heavily on WWE. Why is that winding you up? This desperation to say "Yeah they did but why say they did?" Is hilarious.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

RapShepard said:


> It's just weird like either
> 
> A. Punk can't help his mediocreness due to rust so they made him being mediocre the story. Which still means it was mediocre just acknowledged.
> 
> ...


*You know how it goes. AEW can do no wrong, ever. The fans will spin trash as the "long term storyline" of the year.*


----------



## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

Erik. said:


> It's almost as if Punk knows what he's doing.


Agree. There is a clear plan here.

although I have said this before and the complete opposite has happened. Let’s see.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

AuthorOfPosts said:


> And?
> 
> They leaned heavily on WWE and people are saying they leaned heavily on WWE. Why is that winding you up? This desperation to say "Yeah they did but why say they did?" Is hilarious.


It hasn't wound me up. Far from it. 

My comments were more aimed at the people that tried to cheapen the brilliance of a segment by saying that without references of real life it would have somehow been worse as if both men haven't already had been involved in some of the best promos and segments the company has to offer (without the need to mention history or use historical references from times in other companies) 

Or was Punk/Kingston not THAT great because it leaned on history between the two of them in a previous promotion and mentioned the likes Samoa Joe? 

We've discovered that wrestling fans like historical or real life notes in wrestlers promos. Which is why the live audience gives things like that a pop, wrestlers names chanted, mentions of Wrestlemania booed etc. 

AEW aren't the only wrestling company in the world and they don't pretend to be. The fact that even mentioning WWE talent or bringing up historical moments garners threads or people's complaints is baffling in itself. 

Its wrestling. Alot happens.


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

DammitChrist said:


> I'm glad that you can finally admit that this was all part of the plan, but just know that you're completely off about the "mediocrity" since CM Punk's first 3 months were pretty solid


It's just a matter of taste I guess. Some people will call Punk's first three months "mediocre" while they drool over stupidity like Vince and his lost golden egg. That's "quality" storytelling to some people. Or an aimless, directionless, predictable and slowly becoming downright boring Roman title reign that has no clear path or end planned to it. 

It's funny how these same people defend that shit while don't appreciate actual storytelling.


----------



## BestInTheWorld22 (Nov 25, 2021)

Last nights promo was the best promo of the year in any company, MJF is gonna be a major star


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

zkorejo said:


> It's just a matter of taste I guess. Some people will call Punk's first three months "mediocre" while they drool over stupidity like Vince and his lost golden egg. That's "quality" storytelling to some people. Or an aimless, directionless, predictable and slowly becoming downright boring Roman title reign that has no clear path or end planned to it.
> 
> It's funny how these same people defend that shit while don't appreciate actual storytelling.


Yep, it's some of the same bunch who complained endlessly about Kenny Omega's fun AEW World title reign.

It was a lengthy reign that served a purpose, had an actual endgame to it, AND the guy actually put someone over big time (which was Adam Page in this case) before he outstayed his welcome on top.


----------



## Gwi1890 (Nov 7, 2019)

Soul Rex said:


> Partially true, sadly as good as MJF is on the mic, he's even smaller and less intimidaring than The Miz.


but he can wrestle that’s the difference, and who gives a shit if he’s small? You could argue Roddy Pipper and Ric Flair were small during a point in their career nobody gives a shit pal


----------



## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

DammitChrist said:


> Yep, it's some of the same bunch who complained endlessly about Kenny Omega's fun AEW World title reign.
> 
> It was a lengthy reign that served a purpose, had an actual endgame to it, AND the guy actually put someone over big time (which was Adam Page in this case) before he outstayed his welcome on top.


This is probably AEWs bragging right here. They are fantastic at booking meaningful world title reigns. Nobody transitional. We will see Hangman’s title reign be impactful and character developing.


----------



## The One (Jul 16, 2012)

The Legit DMD said:


> *You know how it goes. AEW can do no wrong, ever. The fans will spin trash as the "long term storyline" of the year.*


They literally can’t do no wrong when WWE’s around.


----------



## Error_404 (Apr 12, 2016)

Yes. Punk has been involved in some of the top segements AEW has produced which isn't surprising at all.


----------



## Brodus Clay (Jan 6, 2012)

I think it's the first time someone shot on his UFC "career" plus the Cena stuff... they really like MJF to let him get those bullets.


----------



## Gwi1890 (Nov 7, 2019)

BroncoBuster3 said:


> Jericho's 'Cody' vignette still stands out to me. MJF carried this one well. There's still something off with Punk


was about to post this guess a few weren’t around at the beginning of AEW


----------



## The_Great_One21 (Feb 22, 2012)

Punk/Kingston was better. That’s just off my head from recently


----------



## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

Gwi1890 said:


> but he can wrestle that’s the difference, and who gives a shit if he’s small? You could argue Roddy Pipper and Ric Flair were small during a point in their career nobody gives a shit pal


MJF smaller than both of them... You will definitely give a shit if they make him champ and they are forced him to book him as the weaket champion in history of existence.

Size fucking matter in wrestling so you should definitely give a fucking shit.... You all compare MJF to Piper and Flair because you actually havent noticed how fucking short he is.

*MJF IS FUCKING SHORT.*


----------



## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

Soul Rex said:


> MJF smaller than both of them... You will definitely give a shit if they make him champ and they are forced him to book him as the weaket champion in history of existence.
> 
> Size fucking matter in wrestling so you should definitely give a fucking shit.... You all compare MJF to Piper and Flair because you actually havent noticed how fucking short he is.
> 
> *MJF IS FUCKING SHORT.*


He’s not much shorter than kurt


----------



## Gwi1890 (Nov 7, 2019)

Soul Rex said:


> MJF smaller than both of them... You will definitely give a shit if they make him champ and they are forced him to book him as the weaket champion in history of existence.
> 
> Size fucking matter in wrestling so you should definitely give a fucking shit.... You all compare MJF to Piper and Flair because you actually havent noticed how fucking short he is.
> 
> *MJF IS FUCKING SHORT.*


yawn it’s the same old bullshit with you, nobody gives a shit about his size, I’d rather a wrestler with talent holding a belt than a blank canvas like your avatar


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Soul Rex said:


> You look like a methead, gray hair, baggy eyes,skinny, no muscles.. Punk is in the worst shape of his life and looks like shit.
> 
> Can't stop kissing ass and babies like he was John Cena, hasn't done anything particulary interesting other than beat jobbers since he got there...His promos have no intensity, purpose or flame anymore.
> 
> ...


Don't upset the people living on a pipe dream🤣


----------



## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

Geert Wilders said:


> He’s not much shorter than kurt


Peak Kurt was 5'10 220 by his olympic measurements, and he looked rock solid.










Kurt looked good in front of guys like Rock, Triple H, etc... MJF looks like 5'8 and 180 at best... He looks small next to Cm Punk, dear god.


----------



## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

Gwi1890 said:


> yawn it’s the same old bullshit with you, nobody gives a shit about his size, I’d rather a wrestler with talent holding a belt than a blank canvas like your avatar


Talent goes by results, Reigns is a star, MJF is not.

And I'm the one telling what most MJF fans don't want to hear, but most of you already know, but can't come to accept the cruel reality.. Good look with booking him as as a main eventer.


----------



## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

Soul Rex said:


> Peak Kurt was 5'10 220 by his olympic measurements, and he looked rock solid.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your argument was that he was short.
Kurt Angle and MJF on paper have an inch difference between them. We know WWE over exaggerate their wrestlers' sizes.


----------



## Razgriz (Jan 14, 2016)

MJF is 5 11", Punk is 6' 3", Miz is 6' 2"


Bryan Danielson is short...


My question to people who are pissy at Punk wrestling with Hobbs and Kingston are... What other options do you have. What did you want to see when he made his entrance? 

Should he have immediately matched with MJF? Dude just got out of a feud with Jericho... there's no heat there for it to be worth a damn. 

Should Punk be in the American Dragon role right now?

Then people would be bitching that the "Dragon" is being underutilized.

Can you actually rebook this and still have the same damn promo that we had last night?


----------



## Thomazbr (Apr 26, 2009)

Soul Rex said:


> MJF smaller than both of them... You will definitely give a shit if they make him champ and they are forced him to book him as the weaket champion in history of existence.
> 
> Size fucking matter in wrestling so you should definitely give a fucking shit.... You all compare MJF to Piper and Flair because you actually havent noticed how fucking short he is.
> 
> *MJF IS FUCKING SHORT.*


MJF will be an annoying as champ but not because he is short.
He is just a chickenshit heel and that leads to insufferable reigns in the long run. I like MJF but I'm fucking dreading his potential run. There's going to be so much bullshit in the championship matches.


----------



## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

Geert Wilders said:


> Your argument was that he was short.
> Kurt Angle and MJF on paper have an inch difference between them. We know WWE over exaggerate their wrestlers' sizes.


Kurt Angle next to a 6'2 270 pounds Brock Lesnar.



















MJF next to a 6'2 250 pounds Wardlow




















Kurt was not only two inches taller, but had a good body frame enough to not look small next to some of the monsters of the AE.

MJF looks like a kid.


----------



## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

Soul Rex said:


> Kurt Angle next to a 6'2 270 pounds Brock Lesnar.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


it doesn't change the fact that your argument was that MJF is short, when Angle is practically the same size. (google it). 

Maybe reword your argument.


----------



## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

Geert Wilders said:


> it doesn't change the fact that your argument was that MJF is short, when Angle is practically the same size. (google it).
> 
> Maybe reword your argument.


But they are not the same height tho, Angle official billed height (non WWE) is 5'10.

MJF looks 5'8.. And two inches is pretty relevant, specially if you are also bigger in terms of muscle.


----------



## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

Soul Rex said:


> But they are not the same height tho, Angle official billed height (non WWE) is 5'10.
> 
> MJF looks 5'8.. And two inches is pretty relevant, specially if you are also bigger in terms of muscle.


yea 2 inches definitely relevant. but you're saying _looks._

You are comparing a fact with an assumption.


----------



## Dickhead1990 (Aug 31, 2016)

Maybe the best, of not in the top 5. I remember some good Jericho and Cody ones from the early days that might top this, but this had the optimum level of risqué take downs and good references to each character and their past. This is how promos are done, modern day wrestling industry.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

I think you might have gotten worked......but that's a good thing.


----------



## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

Geert Wilders said:


> yea 2 inches definitely relevant. but you're saying _looks._
> 
> You are comparing a fact with an assumption.


I don't know what your point is.. Two inches is relevant to looks, specially when you are in the 5'8 and 5'10 range, because the closer you are to 6 ft, the closer you are to the average.

And specially when you are heavier.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Soul Rex said:


> Kurt Angle next to a 6'2 270 pounds Brock Lesnar.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Right, but here's MJF next to Jericho










But here's Jericho next to Angle...










Seriously.

Who cares.

Size marks, character marks and work rate marks are all incredibly boring.

Just enjoy who you enjoy.

MJF has barely any negatives when it comes to a wrestler. He's good in the ring, understands psychology, understands kayfabe, actively goes to the gym and works out without looking like a roided out freak, brilliant on the microphone and is 25 years old.

Height is barely an issue.


----------



## Gwi1890 (Nov 7, 2019)

Soul Rex said:


> But they are not the same height tho, Angle official billed height (non WWE) is 5'10.
> 
> MJF looks 5'8.. And two inches is pretty relevant, specially if you are also bigger in terms of muscle.


I bet Lex Luger vs The Great Khali is your dream match


----------



## Brodus Clay (Jan 6, 2012)

Fucking inches war right here  , reminds me to the CM Punk greybeard thread.


----------



## Gwi1890 (Nov 7, 2019)

Erik. said:


> Right, but here's MJF next to Jericho
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yeah and he might enjoy a prolonged career not being a roided out freak to


----------



## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

Erik. said:


> Right, but here's MJF next to Jericho
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That picture has a weid ass angle. (No pun intened)









Here both at their prime, both around 5'10.











I think is important to mention that people who point out size on wrestlers are not the ones making the rules.. I'm not the one saying MJF will fail as a main eventer because he's short. 

Wrestlin will tell you itself, that don't mean you shouldn't like him, but be ready to be dissapointed.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Soul Rex said:


> That picture has a weid ass angle. (No pun intened)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So what's the picture you've posted supposed to prove?

That there really is literally nothing in it?

Wrestling has told me nothing. I'm not the one that's been conditioned by Vince McMahon to believe that you can only be a successful main eventer if you're 6 ft 2 and above.


----------



## Rookie of the Year (Mar 26, 2015)

DammitChrist said:


> Except those long matches add more to the story since it's proving MJF right about CM Punk "struggling" in the ring.


I think the story is a mix of reality and fiction. They planned it to be this way because Punk was rusty and unsure of himself after 7 years. I think he came back and smashed it against Darby, but I understand wanting to build up ring time after such a long lay-off, rather than rushing into the 20-30 minute main events and dream matches right away.

Plus this story is great for the perception AEW wanted to have of a more sports-based presentation. It's more realistic for Punk to need more time to beat younger, more active talent rather than squashing them in a couple of minutes.


----------



## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

Erik. said:


> So what's the picture you've posted supposed to prove?
> 
> That there really is literally nothing in it?
> 
> Wrestling has told me nothing. I'm not the one that's been conditioned by Vince McMahon to believe that you can only be a successful main eventer if you're 6 ft 2 and above.


Both Jericho and Angle were around 5 ft 10 at their primes and both were taller and bigger than what MJF is now, that's what you got.

Roughlty 95% of the most succesfull wrestlers in history were bigger than the average...THAT'S including all wrestling companies, WCW and NWA as well.

Reality is wrestlers are more popular when they look legit, VInce didn't fucking created reality, he just gave people what they wanted.

History and statistic will tell you this...But you all fucking nerds will refuse to accept this like it hurts you painfully. Why the fuck it is so hard to understand? SMALL WRESTLERS DON'T DRAW.


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

Razgriz said:


> MJF is 5 11", Punk is 6' 3", Miz is 6' 2"
> 
> 
> Bryan Danielson is short...


I met Punk and Miz in person. Punk's 5'11, Miz around 6 foot. MJF looks about 5'7 to me


Thomazbr said:


> MJF will be an annoying as champ but not because he is short.
> He is just a chickenshit heel and that leads to insufferable reigns in the long run. I like MJF but I'm fucking dreading his potential run. There's going to be so much bullshit in the championship matches.


I doubt he will be AEW champion and if he is its a short run.

Cody, Bryan, Punk, Owens, Cole, Styles will all be in the pecking order ahead of him.


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

Less famous Miz is an awful burial though. That will haunt MJF for his career like 'The Big Slow'


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Soul Rex said:


> Both Jericho and Angle were around 5 ft 10 at their primes and both were taller and bigger than what MJF is now, that's what you got.
> 
> Roughlty 95% of the most succesfull wrestlers in history were bigger than the average...THAT'S including all wrestling companies, WCW and NWA as well.
> 
> ...


Are Jericho and Angle both successful main eventers that will be remembered? Or not?

Because you just told me that main eventers that are short fail and you've just listed two wrestlers that have main evented Wrestlemania (one of which in the Hall of Fame, other a shoe-in for it) that certainly haven't failed.

Reality is, wrestlers are more popular when they're booked well and can connect with the crowd through charisma. That's a simple fact and always has been a fact.

History and statistics are just that. History and statistics.

We're talking about the present and the future.

And zero people, bar size and body marks give two shits that MJF is two inches smaller than Kurt Angle, if even that. Because he has charisma, connects with the crowd, is good in the ring and can talk on the microphone. 

Absolutely nonsensical.


----------



## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

Erik. said:


> Are Jericho and Angle both successful main eventers that will be remembered? Or not?
> 
> Because you just told me that main eventers that are short fail and you've just listed two wrestlers that have main evented Wrestlemania (one of which in the Hall of Fame, other a shoe-in for it) that certainly haven't failed.
> 
> ...


Did you just fucking read anything I said? Both Jericho and Angle were big enough, they were close to 6 ft but fuckin buff. A 5 ft 10 and 220 pounds guy with a muscledbuild is workable as top guy. A 5 ft 8 and 180 is not.

It's cute and sounds so inspirational.."history is the past, people wil suddenly find small wrestlers legit just because we neckbeards dream of it".

That's not how fucking reality works pal, lmao wake up.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Soul Rex said:


> Did you just fucking read anything I said? Both Jericho and Angle were big enough, they were close to 6 ft but fuckin buff. A 5 ft 10 and 220 pounds guy with a muscledbuild is workable as top guy. A 5 ft 8 and 180 is not.
> 
> It's cute and sounds so inspirational.."history is the past, people wil suddenly find small wrestlers legit just because we neckbeards dream of it".
> 
> That's not how fucking reality works pal, lmao wake up.


I've read every bit of steaming horseshit you've written, sadly.

But I'm not sure I can much longer.

In 24 hours, you've not only been worked by CM Punk and tried to deny it, but you've also then argued that main eventers can't be small only to then say Jericho, who's really not that bigger than MJF, is successful and big enough.

Haven't you got some tribal balls to fondle in the WWE section? I feel that watered down, sanitized world is more for you.

Plus, he's so fuuuuuuuuuuuuuucking big and buff.

Ta'ra.


----------



## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

I think that if you find yourself agreeing with MJF, whose character is meant to be an enormous asshole, you should re-evaluate a bit LOL


----------



## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

Geeee said:


> I think that if you find yourself agreeing with MJF, whose character is meant to be an enormous asshole, you should re-evaluate a bit LOL


I agree with him shittng on my favorite wrestler, such life.


----------



## Thomazbr (Apr 26, 2009)

validreasoning said:


> I met Punk and Miz in person. Punk's 5'11, Miz around 6 foot. MJF looks about 5'7 to me
> 
> I doubt he will be AEW champion and if he is its a short run.
> 
> Cody, Bryan, Punk, Owens, Cole, Styles will all be in the pecking order ahead of him.


I think MJF is the one to dethrone Hangman by the way.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you’ve never changed your mind in a 12month period?


Erik said CM Punk was never a draw when Punk wasn't coming to AEW then Punk signed and now he endlessly defends the guy and gets into debates protecting him. One of the funniest moments in my time here was calling him out on that and him desperately trying to twist the story.


----------



## Sherlok4 (Nov 16, 2021)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Erik said CM Punk was never a draw when Punk wasn't coming to AEW then Punk signed and now he endlessly defends the guy and gets into debates protecting him. One of the funniest moments in my time here was calling him out on that and him desperately trying to twist the story.


It’s hilarious and sad to see AEW fans change their opinion on a wrestler as soon as they get to AEW, had CM Punk returned to WWE they’d be shitting all over him on this forum

But of course AEW can do no wrong, it’s like these fans/marks are a brainwashed cult and Tony Khan is their Jim Jones


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## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Watched it once already and maybe I'll watch it again after some smoking [Maybe it'll be a better segment high lol].
> 
> However, it was just good in my opinion. I don't watch every AEW show and usually catch a lot of the matches/promos on Youtube so I can't rank if it's the best. So far, I'd say CM Punk's return sticks out in my mind because of the moment/atmosphere/etc.
> 
> ...


Completely agree, yea. While i think it was better than what AEW usually does, it was too formulaic and I feel like MJF always tend to fall into humour a little bit too much. The Punk line about "being the Miz" indeed was cliche, did not impress me. It felt childish. Maybe the exchange was a little bit going for the trending Twitter headlines via easily remembered bulletpoints "dollar store Miz, failure in UFC, etc...". Saying names doesn't bring you heat. At the very least instead of saying it as a shock catchphrases, they could have gone further with it. Like have MJF really lays it tick about Punk's failure in UFC, saying how much of a bitch he was getting beat so easily. About how he knows for a fact that Punk cried all night after his latest UFC failure, etc...But even that I think it lays on thin air. We don't really know WHY they hate each other. They should have started with that first.


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

The Legit DMD said:


> *I don't care if he told us 2 weeks in that we're going to get tired of him to orchestrate a slow burn heel turn or bring back the intense tweener that made him who he is. He should not be wrestling jobbers every Friday to 500,000 viewers. He should be involved in high profile programs like this minus the QT Marshall bullshit. If he needs to fight a jobber, let him squash them and cut a promo like MJF, instead of having a competitive 15-minute match with them.*



He's going to turn heel and say aew and Tony is trash and everyone In it ? Cool story, soooo excited.


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Erik said CM Punk was never a draw when Punk wasn't coming to AEW then Punk signed and now he endlessly defends the guy and gets into debates protecting him. One of the funniest moments in my time here was calling him out on that and him desperately trying to twist the story.


Wait Eric protects him? No he doesn't. He pretty much said he's not a draw in aew. Didn't bring a parade of new peeps


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Razgriz said:


> MJF is 5 11", Punk is 6' 3", Miz is 6' 2"
> 
> 
> Bryan Danielson is short...
> ...


1st extend the team Taz feud so the match with Starks happens, since people had interest in those promos and he was on his list. 

Coming out of that you have him vs archer. Folk would probably dig him having promos against Jake

Then you run the Kingston feud

Now you get into MJF. They can still have had Punk doing the happy shit, but he also could've still been cutting good promos against folk that can hang with him. Which is more interesting because he's having some stories.


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## Razgriz (Jan 14, 2016)

So an even longer burn to get to MJF... 

Yeah that would have had people not complain about his utilization


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Erik. said:


> Are Jericho and Angle both successful main eventers that will be remembered? Or not?
> 
> Because you just told me that main eventers that are short fail and you've just listed two wrestlers that have main evented Wrestlemania (one of which in the Hall of Fame, other a shoe-in for it) that certainly haven't failed.
> 
> ...


Jericho and Angle are definitely legends and will be remembered for a long time. But they also don't have the peaks of guys like Rock, Hogan, Warrior, and Austin. MJF will be fine, but folk are lying to themselves if they say his potential for success wouldn't be even higher if he was a little bit bigger.

I mean Wardlow is a perfect example of this. Man's hasn't said very much to show he can cut a functional promo consistent, yet folk look at him and see a potential star. Why because he's a big yolked up decent looking dude. Size and look can get you a leg up, and if you got actual skills you're fucking set.

Luckily for MJF though AEW's main event size isn't like the WWE's scene.


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## TonySirico (Sep 8, 2021)

Soul Rex said:


> People quickly forget Jericho had some freaking amazing promos earlier in AEW's existence.
> 
> But yeah, I would agree this is the best.


look heel Jericho is usually pretty fucking great.
Face jericho is hit or miss and right now is a huge miss. He’s fucking terrible and he’s been fucking terrible in commentary too.
And it isn’t just him on tv. His ideas have been shit too. Mimosa Mayhem, Mjf swirly….he can’t get back in tour with fozzy fast enough.


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## BroncoBuster3 (Apr 19, 2021)

Being bad to eventually be good is not long term story telling or working people. It's just bad and since his return Punk has been bad. Dude looks bad, wrestles bad and has bad storylines. They've wasted him. They're wasting Danielson wrestling the Dark Order members one by one when he should be taking them out in one go. They've wasted Sting by having him manage a guy who also wears face paint. They've wasted Andrade by having him do nothing, same with PAC actually. They're wasted Christian too. Unless you're in the Elite you don't matter in this company


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

RapShepard said:


> Jericho and Angle are definitely legends and will be remembered for a long time. But they also don't have the peaks of guys like Rock, Hogan, Warrior, and Austin. MJF will be fine, but folk are lying to themselves if they say his potential for success wouldn't be even higher if he was a little bit bigger.
> 
> I mean Wardlow is a perfect example of this. Man's hasn't said very much to show he can cut a functional promo consistent, yet folk look at him and see a potential star. Why because he's a big yolked up decent looking dude. Size and look can get you a leg up, and if you got actual skills you're fucking set.
> 
> Luckily for MJF though AEW's main event size isn't like the WWE's scene.



This fake delusional that some how a guy is good because he's big is getting old


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## thorn123 (Oct 10, 2019)

MJF impressed me in ring with Darby, but he still doesn't look intimidating. I am ok with that as he is a squirmy heel and as long as he cheats heinously, there is no reason he can't be in the title picture in the future.


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## Missionary Chief (Aug 1, 2021)

I thought MJF was taller.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

shandcraig said:


> This fake delusional that some how a guy is good because he's big is getting old


I didn't say size = skill. There's a reason the smaller guys have historically had to do a lot more than their bigger counterparts. There's a reason a Goldberg or Warriors peak are far above the peaks of more well rounded guys like HBK and Jericho. Being big just let folk get away with less, idk why folk have such issues admitting that.


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

@Soul Rex I merged your thread with smarks


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## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

it;s up there. i'm sure plenty of people bitched because "mentioning wwe is dumb and small time cause no company outside their own should exist" but those digs are what brought the best out of the segment


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## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

BroncoBuster3 said:


> Being bad to eventually be good is not long term story telling or working people. It's just bad and since his return Punk has been bad. Dude looks bad, wrestles bad and has bad storylines. They've wasted him. They're wasting Danielson wrestling the Dark Order members one by one when he should be taking them out in one go. They've wasted Sting by having him manage a guy who also wears face paint. They've wasted Andrade by having him do nothing, same with PAC actually. They're wasted Christian too. Unless you're in the Elite you don't matter in this company


lol


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

shandcraig said:


> Wait Eric protects him? No he doesn't. He pretty much said he's not a draw in aew. Didn't bring a parade of new peeps


I don't recall exactly what was said but there was this big thread shitting on CM Punk where people said AEW don't need him, Punk is a washed up has been, he never was that big of a draw etc. Anyway, the two I remember most were JasmineAEW and Erik just completely shitting on the guy saying they didn't want him, one of them called him a cancer etc.

Then he signed and they quickly changed their tones. I think Erik said Punk wouldn't draw anyone new to AEW which was false at first but has now been proven correct. He couldn't handle the debate though and blocked me.

Jasmine has left me unblocked but she's been salty ever since.


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## KingofKings1524 (Aug 27, 2007)

I was obviously an AEW from the beginning, but it can’t be understated how much Punk and Danielson have brought to this company.


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

How about we focus on the thread and not each other like king is?


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

RapShepard said:


> I didn't say size = skill. There's a reason the smaller guys have historically had to do a lot more than their bigger counterparts. There's a reason a Goldberg or Warriors peak are far above the peaks of more well rounded guys like HBK and Jericho. Being big just let folk get away with less, idk why folk have such issues admitting that.


I know and it wasn't directed at you but more agreeing. Agree with you again but what I mean is a lot of people these days say someone is good just because the guy is big. People are so derived of characters and personas that your average Joe is the next big thing


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I don't recall exactly what was said but there was this big thread shitting on CM Punk where people said AEW don't need him, Punk is a washed up has been, he never was that big of a draw etc. Anyway, the two I remember most were JasmineAEW and Erik just completely shitting on the guy saying they didn't want him, one of them called him a cancer etc.
> 
> Then he signed and they quickly changed their tones. I think Erik said Punk wouldn't draw anyone new to AEW which was false at first but has now been proven correct. He couldn't handle the debate though and blocked me.
> 
> Jasmine has left me unblocked but she's been salty ever since.


Feels like punks entire fan base are salty and desperate to justify anything with him. All they got on the guy is a pipe dream


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

shandcraig said:


> I know and it wasn't directed at you but more agreeing. Agree with you again but what I mean is a lot of people these days go oh that guys bug he's good so he's good. People are so derived if characters and personas that your average Joe is the next big thing


Ah got you then sorry for being snippy.


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

RapShepard said:


> Ah got you then sorry for being snippy.


Sorry? What are you Canadian now?🤣


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

shandcraig said:


> Sorry? What are you Canadian now?[emoji1787]


[emoji23][emoji23] aye I don't mind being a dick, but if the reason for being one is misguided gotta apologize lol


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

RapShepard said:


> Jericho and Angle are definitely legends and will be remembered for a long time. But they also don't have the peaks of guys like Rock, Hogan, Warrior, and Austin. MJF will be fine, but folk are lying to themselves if they say his potential for success wouldn't be even higher if he was a little bit bigger.
> 
> I mean Wardlow is a perfect example of this. Man's hasn't said very much to show he can cut a functional promo consistent, yet folk look at him and see a potential star. Why because he's a big yolked up decent looking dude. Size and look can get you a leg up, and if you got actual skills you're fucking set.
> 
> Luckily for MJF though AEW's main event size isn't like the WWE's scene.


Of course, but I don't think that's down to their size. Austin wasn't the tallest. Just the guys you mentioned are basically generational talents or right place, right time, right look (Warrior') 

Wardlow is a fine example. But its only really the body guys or the size marks that are wanting him to be pushed big. People on here who couldn't really care less about what you look like aslong as you're good just want to see Wardlow given more ring and mic time because he's still generally an unknown quantity. He's "homegrown" so to speak, yet not a big deal. 

Its a shame that narrow mindedness and years of being told that big guys = stars can have such an effect on people that when they see talent, its shadowed by their height.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Erik. said:


> Of course, but I don't think that's down to their size. Austin wasn't the tallest. Just the guys you mentioned are basically generational talents or right place, right time, right look (Warrior')
> 
> Wardlow is a fine example. But its only really the body guys or the size marks that are wanting him to be pushed big. People on here who couldn't really care less about what you look like aslong as you're good just want to see Wardlow given more ring and mic time because he's still generally an unknown quantity. He's "homegrown" so to speak, yet not a big deal.
> 
> Its a shame that narrow mindedness and years of being told that big guys = stars can have such an effect on people that when they see talent, its shadowed by their height.


Jericho and HBK are generational talents too

I don't think it's a narrow-minded as just certain shit is more appealing to the masses you know. Pop music, attractive people, action movies, if folk are watching fights they heavyweights probably going to be more easy for folk to get into.


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

RapShepard said:


> Jericho and HBK are generational talents too
> 
> I don't think it's a narrow-minded as just certain shit is more appealing to the masses you know. Pop music, attractive people, action movies, if folk are watching fights they heavyweights probably going to be more easy for folk to get into.


Generstional megastars, probably better terms I could have used really. 

Are they though? I can certainly understand that mindset decades ago. But is that _really _the same now? 

Id always think character trumps all when it came to the masses.


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## Damned (Oct 22, 2021)

Outstanding segment. Probably one of the best in the last 20yrs. Anyone who has an issue with this really doesn't understand wrestling or what they are watching at all.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Erik. said:


> Generstional megastars, probably better terms I could have used really.
> 
> Are they though? I can certainly understand that mindset decades ago. But is that _really _the same now?
> 
> Id always think character trumps all when it came to the masses.


I think character is important for sure. I'm talking all things equal more so on the size issue. Like if you're going to offer nothing, being bigger in size will do more wonders than if you were smaller. If we're talking really talented folk like say Moxley and MJF, Moxley being bigger is going to work better in more scenarios.


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## theboxingfan (Nov 15, 2013)

I just watched it. MJF is better on the mic than CM Punk.


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## thisissting (Aug 14, 2018)

No way. It was good but I felt mfj just spent a little too long on the mic. He didn't need Togo that long to get across the same message. Left cm punk hanging around like a spare part. I felt that punk wouldn't have let him.go that long in real life without clocking him. Apart from that it was an enjoyable segment.

I prefer shorter snappier promos. Jericho is great at it and britt Baker has done better work than this too. MJF just needs to learn to be a little more concise.


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## Jersey (Jun 24, 2014)

Settle down it was ok promo between them.


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## BestInTheWorld22 (Nov 25, 2021)

Wow! That promo is #6 trending and has 1.6 million views


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

im beyond socked how anyone can think what punk said was exciting. The guy didnt say anything special and he seemed just so out beaten by mjf. Yet people think its the greatest words this god has ever said.


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## Ameer Patel (May 30, 2019)

shandcraig said:


> im beyond socked how anyone can think what punk said was exciting. The guy didnt say anything special and he seemed just so out beaten by mjf. Yet people think its the greatest words this god has ever said.


I'm beyond shocked how anyone can't think what Punk said was exciting

Anyway what happened to all the haters saying Punk was being wasted on AEW, blah blah - he's now been involved in the three best AEW segments in their history 

His Debut 
Kingston
MJF

I have super high hopes for this feud, I hope it keeps going until the next PPV, will hopefully be at least two matches


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## go stros (Feb 16, 2020)

Its was good but I liked MJF/Jericho better. Punk had one good line about the Miz other than that he seemed off. Its seemed to go a little long for my taste. But as AWESOME as it was for some fans it gets fallowed up by QT Marshall.


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## dante phillips (Nov 21, 2016)

It was okay but like I've said earlier it was bit cringe with the punky brewster line but what I do think is second half of promo was much better than first half of promo

It told a better story and CM Punk gradually got pissed off which I think was good but it is getting over hyped and over rated

But second half of promo I enjoyed


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## theboxingfan (Nov 15, 2013)

shandcraig said:


> im beyond socked how anyone can think what punk said was exciting. The guy didnt say anything special and he seemed just so out beaten by mjf. Yet people think its the greatest words this god has ever said.


The less popular miz line was actually great.


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## Dmight (Aug 31, 2016)

Nice promo, but it's not even the best AEW segment of November


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

During the latest Busted Open Radio show, Mark Henry said he believes that the MJF – CM Punk promo they cut on each other on AEW Dynamite was one of the most special wrestling moments in history:

“There will never be another promo like that one,” Henry said. “That was a special moment that we’ll never see again. Our kids may see one, but that was one of the most special wrestling moments in history. I say that because as a kid, I’ve seen some great promo artists, Roddy Piper, Ted DiBiase, The Rock, and you can go into hundreds of guys that we thought were pretty good on the stick, but never has there been two guys at the same damn time have a battle of wits that will equal, that touched on things that were so real, that we will likely not have those type of moments again.”

He continued, “I was so unbelievably amazed. I started off at the monitor. I’m sitting at the monitor. There’s 30 wrestlers sitting around that area, and everybody is popping. If you’re popping wrestlers, you’ve done something in your life. You won. I had to get up, walk out to the crowd to feel it because that’s why people go to wrestling. People go to wrestling because of how you feel, not because you just want to be entertained. There is true life, emotional investment. You want to feel it. That’s one of the reasons why AEW is so popular right now is because the crowd feels like they have a role in what they’re seeing, and they do. They absolutely do. I got to go out there. It felt like electricity moving my clothes one zinger to another one, one zinger back and forth. The city of Chicago, everybody that was there, will get to tell people for the rest of their lives, ‘I was at that show where CM Punk and MJF went toe to toe, a battle of wits, over 20 minutes, and not one punch connected.’ It was arguably the best verbal jousting that I’ve ever seen. I’ve watched segments of Wild ‘N Out. I’ve watched all of the Rap Battles back and forth. 8 Mile didn’t have anything on that on Wednesday. You can’t tell me that you’ve ever seen two human beings go back and forth like we saw.”

He went on to say, “I can’t think of anything that is remotely close, even as good of matches that we’ve seen on AEW, as good of matches that we’ve seen on WWE programming, all of the elite wrestling that we’ve seen across the board in Impact, I’ve not seen a match that’s entertained me as much as that (the promo)”


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## go stros (Feb 16, 2020)

Mark Henry is a company man.

Perkins or Perkies


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## Necrolust (Mar 4, 2015)

Reading through this thread is just, yeah…
The promo was very good, I was very happy and surprised it went for so long. I’m not personally one to think using cheap heat is great, but from a storyline point of view, referencing WWE was okay, since we all know it was that, and certain people within it, that drove CM Punk away for 7 years. The Miz references were not needed, as MJF has no history with them, and Punk can do better.

I was very happy with the last line, that Punk did, with Britt Baker already having replaced MJF as a pillar in AEW, that for me, was a great strong line and the crowd seemed to pop hugely for that and gave Britt a nice rub also. Stellar work.

That Punk returned to wrestling, left me fairly indifferent; I was never a big fan, but listening to the fans, I’m definitely in the minority. It does feel really good to have a crowd go apeshit whenever his music hits, my personal feelings for Punk aside, he’s most certainly an asset to AEW.


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## NondescriptWWEfan (May 9, 2017)

MJF got buried. if he loses he will look like a complete joke.

punk's pointing out how he's less over than a woman on their roster, and that he wouldn't be more than a midcarder anywhere else and all he can do is just go "but muh hhh and john cena tho " and looked like he was crying.


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## chronoxiong (Apr 1, 2005)

I been busy working last week so I haven't had time to watch much wrestling. But man that promo between CM Punk and MJF was amazing. MJF had so many awesome lines delivered to Punk. And then Punk had great comebacks too. Loved MJF's line about maybe about how CM Punk is not the same Punk from last decade. That he is PG Punk and should be preaching about hustle, loyalty and respect. Then Punk's line about never knowing what MJF stood for. And that he is a less famous Miz. And so much more. God damns. If only WWE can put out stuff like this from time to time. Not far and between.


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## Fearless Viper (Apr 6, 2019)

FriedTofu said:


> It was great. But I felt the potshots at WWE from Punk was pretty lame. MJF is his own man. No need to allude to HHH or Miz imo. MJF using WWE to jab at Punk made more sense.


I agree with this.


----------

