# Logically, why would a hot indy star sign with WWE over AEW today?



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Been mulling this over in my head a bit and i thought I would put it to the forum.

So, say you are a famous indy star like Will Ospreay - you have a contract offer from AEW and WWE - what would be the reasons you still decide to go the WWE route over AEW?

Why I think WWE will never attract top indy stars again unless they change their current strategy

1. You have to go through the NXT system, working with some never-were or green as fuck nobody athletes and influencers trying to learn the trade
2. You have to completely change your style to fit the house-style of WWE
3. The carrots of 'Wrestlemania' is years and years away for you - if you ever even get there. And if you do get there, there is no guarantee it is as a character or gimmick you like
4. You know WWE is gearing towards influencers, celebs etc trying to make it in the industry - or totally homegrown stars
5. The pay per match or per bump is similar - you'll wrestle more in WWE, but it'll be house shows equivalent to DARK

Why i think WWE can still attract some indy people

1. the allure of the brand
2. wrestlemania
3. big money potential if you are one of the 0.1% who makes it to 'the guy' level. or the guy who works with 'the guy'

I can't think of much else / while the allure of what AEW can offer the hot indy star is apparent 

Discuss

ps> this is not a 'slate WWE' thread, don't act like it is. They are focusing on homegrown stars or converting celebs, influencers etc, and more power to them. That strategy has a lot of benefits and will work out for them too. So leave the tribalism at the door you nutters


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## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

Pretty much because they're the big fish in this game. If I were a male wrestler, I would dream of winning the WWE Championship. That's still the top prize in the business even though it's been devalued over the years. I mean, the thought of winning the AEW Championship would definitely not sound as exciting.

And yeah, main eventing WrestleMania is up there for sure. And good news for the female wrestlers, they are able to do that too lol.

The argument basically revolves around WWE being on top of the mountain, just like you're saying when you're mentioning the allure of the brand. If you dream big, then becoming a top WWE talent seems to be your goal, as hard as that might be to accomplish.


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## Rankles75 (May 29, 2011)

What @Chelsea said.


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## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

I mean every situation is going to be different and what level of Indy star you're talking about. At the end of the day, if you're a lower level Indy star who has a higher chance of breaking through into NXT than you are with AEW due to their massive roster, you take it. Even if you don't end up making it in NXT or the Main Roster, you at least raise your profile.

Someone like a Rok-C, now Roxanne Perez, chose to go to NXT. I don't know how high the interest level was from AEW, but I imagine there was some. But, and this I guess goes specifically for the women, there was more opportunity to shine in NXT at this stage of her career then go to AEW where there's limited weekly opportunities. And so far, that assumption has been correct.

Now for someone like a Will Ospreay, of course he probably chooses AEW (though I don't really count Ospreay as an Indy star at this point) due to him already having a connection to AEW's fanbase, the style being more suited to his, and the fact they could offer him as much as what WWE would.

NXT/WWE may have gotten out of the business of signing every big Indy name available. But there's still a home there for younger Indy talents if they want. And AEW can only bring in so many people, to the point where they are choosing not to re-sign people to full time deals. At the end of the day, if you are a young Indy wrestler, your focus has shifted to probably finding a way to get into NXT/WWE or work your way through AEW Dark, both with the journey of getting better pay and raising their profile.


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## Irish Jet (Nov 15, 2011)

There's just a far, far higher ceiling in terms of what you can achieve. A far bigger audience, far more mainstream crossover, far greater legacy attached to the company. There is still no comparison for anyone who genuinely believes they can reach that level or in the case of Punk/Danielson they've been there and done it. 

AEW do not present anyone as a star. Compare Cody's treatment in both companies - Other than Jericho he was the biggest star the company had early on but Khan's booking style is one of disconnected segments neatly segregated. They don't begin with a star, present him later and then finish with him the way Vince always has. Could you imagine if The Rock and Austin were restricted to one, maybe two segments per night? The only thing I'd say AEW is objectively better is presenting tag team wrestling as relevant and even then they have a funny way of going about it. 

AEW has hardly been a goldmine for incoming talent either. Sure it's an easier payday and you'll get featured in matches _somewhere _but other than FTR and maybe Moxley not a single ex-WWE guy has hit the heights they did in the previous company. And Moxley is extremely debateable. 

Of their originals only MJF has shown any real mainstream promise. Adam Page crashed and burned spectacularly and the likes of Darby, Jungle Boy, Sammy haven't really been presented any better than they hypothetically would have been in NXT.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Well, I wouldn’t want to suck Vince McMahon’s dick to get on TV like so many before.

So yeah. That’s about it.


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## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

WWE.

Chance to win the same title that the greatest in history have won, chance to wrestle at the biggest event in wrestling history and chance to be on one of the two biggest wrestling shows in history.

Working house shows sounds a whole lot better than having multi man matches where half the match you’re getting dove on.

Also if you ever planned on doing anything after wrestling, WWE guys are going to get looked at before anyone else.


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## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

Safer work environment. Shit happens of course, but AEW is overrepresented in the injured talent lists.
Possibility for making it to Hollywood.

And of course, WWE is THE wrestling show. People not into wrestling believe it is the only wrestling, just like they think UFC is the only MMA


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## eviltwins (Dec 28, 2016)

WWE.

Well, If you fail in WWE, you can just go to AEW.


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## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

What @Chelsea and @Rankles75 say.

And AEW is still the open door for everyone, so if you dont make it in WWE you can still be seen by 800k on a Wednesday night


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## Gn1212 (May 17, 2012)

It's all about money and seeing where you can fit in going forward.
There's only so much time a promotion can offer.

If you WWE offers you good money and you can see a spot you can fill in then it definitely becomes an attractive option.

This is what the business needs btw. Choices. Couple of years there was one place that was the so called "big leagues". Now wrestlers have more than one promotions that can offer the TV exposure and provide a good financial package.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

fabi1982 said:


> What @Chelsea and @Rankles75 say.
> 
> And AEW is still the open door for everyone, so if you dont make it in WWE you can still be seen by 800k on a Wednesday night


lol… can you let Zach Ryder, Braun Strowman, EC3 and Bray Wyatt know?

i hear they are all looking for work xD


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## Lorromire (Jun 17, 2014)

I'd go to AEW personally. Championship history is absolutely pointless in a "fake sport", as is the history of the company. Money is also pointless to me, as long as I'm not homeless it wouldn't bother me, so the contractual amount difference wouldn't be an issue.

I'd rather go some place where I don't get treated like human trash and actually have benefits in my contract basically.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

yeahright2 said:


> Safer work environment. Shit happens of course, but AEW is overrepresented in the injured talent lists.
> Possibility for making it to Hollywood.
> 
> And of course, WWE is THE wrestling show. People not into wrestling believe it is the only wrestling, just like they think UFC is the only MMA


no way in the world is working 5 nights a week safer

WWE is also racked with injuries at the moment

wrestling is not safe


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## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

Because in AEW you'll get a debut buzz which lasts a week because Tony HAS to have at least one new debut every week. Then you'll be relegated to Dark within a month and everyone will forget you even work there.

That keeps happening in AEW. So is WWE really that bad?


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## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

Joining AEW as a hot indy act made more sense early in AEW's existence. Nowadays, outside of the indy guys they were already featuring, more and more of the guys getting pushed are ex-WWE guys. And really, there's a good likelihood if you were an established upper midcard to main event act in WWE, you'll get an opportunity in AEW if you are wanting it.


Outside of that, there's a higher ceiling in WWE. More mainstream exposure opportunities if you are wanting to go that route.


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## Wridacule (Aug 23, 2018)

WWE will win this poll based on the "it's where every kid dreams of being" which is indeed true....TODAY. I dont think the answer will be so obvious if AEW manages to stick around for another 5 years. No one has had a chance to grow up with AEW yet.

Once some of these 10 year olds realize there's an alternative, and that they don't have to watch the same two guys wrestle for 6 months before they get something new, and that there's a company that won't insult them just for being a fan of someone other than who they were told to like...! 

Low blow incoming...How could any father feel safe with their daughter working for Vince??? Don't think that this won't be a factor in years to come. Doubt Tony makes anyone slob him down while is wife watches 😒


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## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol… can you let Zach Ryder, Braun Strowman, EC3 and Bray Wyatt know?
> 
> i hear they are all looking for work xD


How do you know? As far as I know Braun and EC3 have their own shitty promotion, Zach Ryder is making money being himself and Bray just doesnt care as it seems and is doinh films? So not sure if everyone is lookinh for work


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## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

fabi1982 said:


> How do you know? As far as I know Braun and EC3 have their own shitty promotion, Zach Ryder is making money being himself and Bray just doesnt care as it seems and is doinh films? So not sure if everyone is lookinh for work



You didn't hear? Everyone wants to join Tony Khan's Majestic Fantasyland.


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## Seth Grimes (Jul 31, 2015)

Pretty obvious, bigger and better company. There is almost no reason to sign for AEW it's pretty much the stepping stone to get to WWE, you only choose AEW when WWE doesn't want you, I'm confused as to how this is even a question?

"Why do footballers wanna play for Manchester United and not Everton?"


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

fabi1982 said:


> How do you know? As far as I know Braun and EC3 have their own shitty promotion, Zach Ryder is making money being himself and Bray just doesnt care as it seems and is doinh films? So not sure if everyone is lookinh for work


because all of those except Bray is on record for ‘of course i will pick up the phone if Tony calls’ xD

Braun just the other day was going on about ‘indy midgets’ and just the next bit he goes ‘but of course, if Tony calls i am picking up’

lolz


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Seth Grimes said:


> Pretty obvious, bigger and better company. There is almost no reason to sign for AEW it's pretty much the stepping stone to get to WWE, you only choose AEW when WWE doesn't want you, I'm confused as to how this is even a question?
> 
> "Why do footballers wanna play for Manchester United and not Everton?"


if this was true, why did so many wrestlers voluntarily leave WWE for AEW the last year?

don’t be confused, the question has a lot of merit


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## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> because all of those except Bray is on record for ‘of course i will pick up the phone if Tony calls’ xD
> 
> Braun just the other day was going on about ‘indy midgets’ and just the next bit he goes ‘but of course, if Tony calls i am picking up’
> 
> lolz


Because they all know Tony is paying fuckloads of money even if you are green as a lime.


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## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> if this was true, why did so many wrestlers voluntarily leave WWE for AEW the last year?
> 
> don’t be confused, the question has a lot of merit


Who is this „so many“? Afaik besides Bryan, Cole and Cesaro who wasn‘t fired but just not renew the contract?


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## Seth Grimes (Jul 31, 2015)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> if this was true, why did so many wrestlers voluntarily leave WWE for AEW the last year?
> 
> don’t be confused, the question has a lot of merit


You mean those very select few that willingly jumped? Moxley who was pissed off, and got offered double in AEW (which is funny how all the cultists mention money but in reality AEW can offer the same amounts or more). Bryan who achieved everything he wanted in his career and then left? Jeff Hardy who wanted to be free to be an alcoholic? 99% of the guys that went to AEW went there because they were either fired or not valued at all, that isn't the same as them deciding between WWE and AEW

Hmm I don't think it has, it's just an obvious answer to why WWE is #1, and likely will be until another company comes along because AEW is never overtaking them in viewership


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## hardcorewrasslin (Jun 29, 2016)

AEW: if you want TV time and and become a household name 

WWE: if you need the money and don’t mind curtain jerking for an outdated concept of “paying your dues” for a few years before possibly getting decent TV time


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

I think it's weird that the OP and the poll ask different questions. Like if you're asking where I would sign like the poll says, it would definitely be AEW. I'm way more invested in AEW than WWE at the moment and the relatively smaller level of fame is actually attractive to me. Plus, tons of time off.

For the question in the OP, I think that has been well covered in this thread. However, is WWE even looking to sign indy vets anymore? Seems to me they want to mould their own guys.


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## Randy Lahey (Apr 14, 2014)

If you were a woman, it’s be understandable to sign with WWE because they focus far more on womens wrestling even if they were in NXT 2.0

But any male talent should absolutely sign with AEW. You can do your own promos, there’s no writers, more creative freedom, and you also can still do your own thing outside of AEW which is huge. Lot of these indy guys do in fact love doing indy shows in front of small but loud crowds, no different than musicians that still do small venues and not just work arena shows. Even huge star like Moxley still working GCW, DEFY, are what attracts talent.

If you look at these guys as artists, then working at a place that allows the most artistic freedom is what compels them the most.


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## Irish Jet (Nov 15, 2011)

hardcorewrasslin said:


> AEW: if you want TV time and and become a household name
> 
> WWE: if you need the money and don’t mind curtain jerking for an outdated concept of “paying your dues” for a few years before possibly getting decent TV time


If Austin White took this advice he’d be a Jericho Appreciator right now.


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## reamstyles (Aug 9, 2016)

eviltwins said:


> WWE.
> 
> Well, If you fail in WWE, you can just go to AEW.


Quote


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## ElTerrible (Feb 8, 2004)

Cause AEW is like swimming in a natural pond with undercurrents, water plants, big ugly fish and eels and you have to share it with a lot of supertalented guys and girls, while WWE is a huge artifical clean pool in a Hollywood mansion with very little impressive talent laying around on the sun loungers.


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## Naifu (Oct 21, 2011)

I read somewhere that the new age limit for signing in wwe is 30 for men and 25 for women unless your a big name or have potential. Will Ospreay is 29, so maybe if I was him try wwe first and if things don't work out you still have aew to go to. Plus don't ex wwe guys get paid more when they go to aew?


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## JeSeGaN (Jun 5, 2018)

Why would you deliberately wanna go to the minor leagues?


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## Prized Fighter (Aug 31, 2016)

bdon said:


> Well, I wouldn’t want to suck Vince McMahon’s dick to get on TV like so many before.
> 
> So yeah. That’s about it.


Those hush money payments would be fat though.

On the topic, I just think every situation is different. I personally think the allure of WM and main roster gold works for some, even if it really is just a dangling carrot. If you're top male indie star, you should never accept going to NXT over AEW though. NXT doesn't pay for shit. You would be banking on getting that main roster call up that may never come. AEW also has the advantage of a better work/life balance. WWE is going to continue signing celebrities, but none of them are going to do house shows or most TV tapings. That is on top of Roman pulling back on his appearances and Brock's schedule. Essentially the rest of the roster will be required to be away from their family while the higher paid names get the easy schedule. I could see some getting pretty disgruntled at that fact as they sign more celebrity names.

I am mostly referring to the men though. AEW doesn't do a good enough job with their women's division, so I don't blame any women choosing elsewhere. WWE also is only going to sign very young indie women. That is why Rox-C and Cora Jade got looks. Willow Nightgale (28) and Trisha Adora (32) are beyond that threshold.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

fabi1982 said:


> Who is this „so many“? Afaik besides Bryan, Cole and Cesaro who wasn‘t fired but just not renew the contract?





Seth Grimes said:


> You mean those very select few that willingly jumped? Moxley who was pissed off, and got offered double in AEW (which is funny how all the cultists mention money but in reality AEW can offer the same amounts or more). Bryan who achieved everything he wanted in his career and then left? Jeff Hardy who wanted to be free to be an alcoholic? 99% of the guys that went to AEW went there because they were either fired or not valued at all, that isn't the same as them deciding between WWE and AEW
> 
> Hmm I don't think it has, it's just an obvious answer to why WWE is #1, and likely will be until another company comes along because AEW is never overtaking them in viewership



well, lets look at the list

WWE people who willingly left and did not re-sign with WWE or actively asked for their release

Pac
Adam Cole
Jericho
Bryan Danielson
Cash Wheeler
Dax Hardwood
Claudio
Dustin Rhodes
Mox
KOR
Matt Hardy
Shawn Spears
Stokeley Hathaway


*Debatable:*

Big Show
Mark Hendry
CM Punk
Christian Cage
Jeff Hardy ?


----

this isn't really a small list

out of the 34 men on the roster who can be seen as ex-wwe, 18 left of their own accord (52%)



JeSeGaN said:


> Why would you deliberately wanna go to the minor leagues?


Why does someone leave the Premiere League to play Bundesliga ?


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## Jbardo37 (Aug 20, 2021)

Seth Grimes said:


> Pretty obvious, bigger and better company. There is almost no reason to sign for AEW it's pretty much the stepping stone to get to WWE, you only choose AEW when WWE doesn't want you, I'm confused as to how this is even a question?
> 
> "Why do footballers wanna play for Manchester United and not Everton?"


I don’t think many footballers want to play for Man United these days.


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## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

The schedule is a pull for AEW. Wrestlers are spending 4 to 5 days a week at home with their families, rather than grinding on house shows. Do you want to do that grind for the chance to have your Wrestlemania moment or enjoy a more relaxed schedule in a still relevant national promotion without quite reaching that level? Cody wrestled 24 matches in April and May alone before his injury, while in the *whole* of 2021 he worked 28 matches for AEW. MJF tweeted some months back about feeling 'drained' and that's working one of the lightest schedules possible.

If I was a big powerhouse guy or athlete, I'd generally be targetting the WWE because that's where they excel. A guy like Veer, who AEW would seem to have no interest in, who is power and presentation above all else, should definitely eye WWE ahead of AEW. Satnam Singh would fit WWE more too, except they already had him and let him go (he seems more athletic than Omos from the little I've seen so far). Jacob Fatu and Alex Hammerstone from MLW would probably have a chance of getting big pushes more in WWE than AEW (though AEW might push Jacob because he's a great worker for his size).

Someone like Nick Wayne though, a kid who is already trained, honing his craft on the indies, and doesn't have the muscle-man look, is better off in AEW because once he's of age, he's more likely to get on TV and able to work the style he's been taught. At the moment, he's like a young Ospreay, very unrefined but doing some incredible stuff for his age. In WWE, he'd probably end up on the release pile like Trey Baxter, Swerve Strickland, Tony Nese and so on were.

A Jay White is someone in between who could go either way. He'd be a guaranteed top tier guy in AEW, but there's also the potential for him to be so in WWE just with less guarantees. He's 6'1", 220lbs, understands heel psychology and how to wind up the fans, and less 'WWE' guys have held major titles there. Jay would be better than Finn has been in the WWE environment and Finn was getting a big push before his injuries.

BTW LICC, I get your point but Ospreay isn't an indy guy at this point. He does work some indy dates, but he's contracted to a major promotion earning a good salary - kinda like Moxley really. Ospreay has made it clear he has no interest in WWE, even though I think he could be a star there, and anywhere for that matter. He will not be told to change his style of wrestling, which he'd have to in Stamford, and doesn't like their formula.


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## greasykid1 (Dec 22, 2015)

It depends what they want in the long term.

You can get yourself a good steady career as a good hand midcarder in WWE. A lot of people are very happy with that position, and have have been making a great living doing it for years. It's also a slower, safer style in the WWE, so it'll keep you a bit more protected from serious injury. You get to wrestle most days, which is a plus for some. Of course, accidents still happen, but in WWE, you're not generally throwing yourself off of something high every match just to pop the crowd.

But if they're looking for a way to get their high flying, flashy moves on the TV - and possibly get themselves some main event matches - then AEW is the better bet. Plus, the style is more dangerous, but the matches are a lot less frequent. Hell, if TK likes you enough, he'll probably just invent another new belt for you! 

Seriously though, it's really just down to the style they want to wrestle, the exposure they want to get, and whether they want to be part of the huge wrestling machine that's dominated the industry for years.

This is all assuming that they're already OK with WWE's horrific creative system, lack of ability to help people gain popularity, and tendency to be absolute garbage when it comes to morals.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

3venflow said:


> The schedule is a pull for AEW. Wrestlers are spending 4 to 5 days a week at home with their families, rather than grinding on house shows. Do you want to do that grind for the chance to have your Wrestlemania moment or enjoy a more relaxed schedule in a still relevant national promotion without quite reaching that level? Cody wrestled 24 matches in April and May alone before his injury, while in the *whole* of 2021 he worked 28 matches for AEW. MJF tweeted some months back about feeling 'drained' and that's working one of the lightest schedules possible.
> 
> If I was a big powerhouse guy or athlete, I'd generally be targetting the WWE because that's where they excel. A guy like Veer, who AEW would seem to have no interest in, who is power and presentation above all else, should definitely eye WWE ahead of AEW. Satnam Singh would fit WWE more too, except they already had him and let him go (he seems more athletic than Omos from the little I've seen so far). Jacob Fatu and Alex Hammerstone from MLW would probably have a chance of getting big pushes more in WWE than AEW (though AEW might push Jacob because he's a great worker for his size).
> 
> ...


yeah, Ospreay is maybe a bad example

or the phrasing is wrong - its like 'if you were NJPW bullet club AJ styles today, which way do you jump'

Which is what I see Ospreay as - and IMO from that perspective WWE cannot offer what AEW does

on the flip side, if I am some hot, young muscly thing that wants to make bank and i've never taken a bump - then its off the the PC i go, fuck slogging through the indies - that is for sure


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## Lurker V2.0 (Feb 2, 2021)

Wridacule said:


> WWE will win this poll based on the "it's where every kid dreams of being" which is indeed true....TODAY. I dont think the answer will be so obvious if AEW manages to stick around for another 5 years. No one has had a chance to grow up with AEW yet.
> 
> Once some of these 10 year olds realize there's an alternative, and that they don't have to watch the same two guys wrestle for 6 months before they get something new, and that there's a company that won't insult them just for being a fan of someone other than who they were told to like...!
> 
> Low blow incoming...How could any father feel safe with their daughter working for Vince??? Don't think that this won't be a factor in years to come. Doubt Tony makes anyone slob him down while is wife watches 😒


Such an honorable knight you are. Let us all cast down judgement upon father’s who let their daughter work at WWE. Yeah we doers of good are looking down upon the Rock.


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## Lurker V2.0 (Feb 2, 2021)

I would be interested to hear a minority’s take.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Lurker V2.0 said:


> I would be interested to hear a minority’s take.


a minority what?

like race?

you already have, a couple of times in this thread


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## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> well, lets look at the list
> 
> WWE people who willingly left and did not re-sign with WWE or actively asked for their release
> 
> ...


You said last year, PAC left even before AEW was a thing, same with Jericho. Bivens? Thats reaching with the term „wrestler“. Spears? LOL…but again you said „many“ and „this year“. And I was talking WWE, not NXT


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## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Id go where the most money is offered. Pretty simple. Indy guys are looking for that first giant check.


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## Lurker V2.0 (Feb 2, 2021)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> a minority what?
> 
> like race?
> 
> you already have, a couple of times in this thread


Yes a minority race. Some people are of the opinion AEW doesn’t push minorities so would this be detraction from signing with them.


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## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> no way in the world is working 5 nights a week safer
> 
> WWE is also racked with injuries at the moment
> 
> wrestling is not safe


Yep, working 5 nights a week if you do the "WWE style" is safer than the crash and burn style of the indies and/or AEW. Like I said, shit happens, but percentage wise, AEW´s injury rate is bigger than WWE´s.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

fabi1982 said:


> You said last year, PAC left even before AEW was a thing, same with Jericho. Bivens? Thats reaching with the term „wrestler“. Spears? LOL…but again you said „many“ and „this year“. And I was talking WWE, not NXT


lol, ok

i guess i can make that list

that does not make the list i made any less relevant?

all those people left wwe voluntarily

isn’t pac leaving without an alternative being established even making the question harder to answer, not easier?


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## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

Lurker V2.0 said:


> Yes a minority race. Some people are of the opinion AEW doesn’t push minorities so would this be detraction from signing with them.


I think a lot of that is bad faith/race baiting though, from grifters like Alfred Konuwa. AEW pushes plenty of minority wrestlers, some (Scorpio, Jade) above their current talent level some might argue. Fenix, who is Mexican and never cuts a promo, has been in eleven Dynamite main events.

A black guy hasn't held the world title yet, but which black guy should be? Keith Lee? No thanks.

Half of their current champions are minorities and the other title (FTW) is held by a self-identifying person of colour.


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## DUD (Feb 21, 2021)

It depends on your situation.

If you're over 6ft, in your early 20's, have a good physique, can cut a promo and can go in the ring then you absolutely should see whether you can make it in the WWE.

I'd you're not any of those things then milk the money mark for all you can.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

yeahright2 said:


> Yep, working 5 nights a week if you do the "WWE style" is safer than the crash and burn style of the indies and/or AEW. Like I said, shit happens, but percentage wise, AEW´s injury rate is bigger than WWE´s.


i’m gonna need you to prove it

by my count

kenny, punk and santana is out

but also big e, cody, orton

how deep do you want to go? I’m sure it’ll be similar


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

DUD said:


> It depends on your situation.
> 
> If you're over 6ft, in your early 20's, have a good physique, can cut a promo and can go in the ring then you absolutely should see whether you can make it in the WWE.
> 
> I'd you're not any of those things then milk the money mark for all you can.


… where does austin theory fit in this assessment? XD



Lurker V2.0 said:


> Yes a minority race. Some people are of the opinion AEW doesn’t push minorities so would this be detraction from signing with them.


you’ve read some minority races opinions in this thread already


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## DZ Crew (Sep 26, 2016)

I would probably sign with WWE. If I've already got years of experience under my belt I'd wanna work with the development guys on NXT helping them improve but also grow my brand. The problem is if Vince doesn't see anything in me then I'm doomed to just meander around in the mid card once i get to the main roster. However, the potential to become a true star really only exists in wwe imo. It's the bigger promotion with a larger fan base. With AEW I'd have the fear of having a great debut, but then a month later I'm working with nobodies on dark. 

In an ideal scenario I'd probably first work a short term deal with AEW, probably 2 years max so I can work with guys like Bryan and Punk then jump ship to wwe to enhance my star power.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

DZ Crew said:


> I would probably sign with WWE. If I've already got years of experience under my belt I'd wanna work with the development guys on NXT helping them improve but also grow my brand. The problem is if Vince doesn't see anything in me then I'm doomed to just meander around in the mid card once i get to the main roster. However, the potential to become a true star really only exists in wwe imo. It's the bigger promotion with a larger fan base. With AEW I'd have the fear of having a great debut, but then a month later I'm working with nobodies on dark.
> 
> In an ideal scenario I'd probably first work a short term deal with AEW, probably 2 years max so I can work with guys like Bryan and Punk then jump ship to wwe to enhance my star power.


first logical take IMO


----------



## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

WWE is the dream of many guys, but you can now also get equal money and more general freedom to work in AEW, while not having to worry about all the backstage shit in WWE (although AEW has it's own backstage drama, just not as pronounced). And WWE also has a specific niche of guys they are looking for now, so unless you do have a good look/size, charisma, and the ability to talk well, WWE might not really give a shit about you all that much.

That being said, AEW is basically full, and really unless you are a bigger household indy name, an ex-WWE name that people will recognize, or a bigger name working for any number of NJPW/Impact/ROH/CMLL and other promotions, anybody else who is an up and comer may have a much harder time breaking through to get any sort of ample television time. WWE for some, given how many people they let go, may end up being a better fit there and you could end up being used well in NXT and possibly translating over to the main roster well, although even this is nowhere near concrete. But I think there is a greater chance to get highlighted given the smaller rosters. 

It's really a pick'em now.


----------



## Seth Grimes (Jul 31, 2015)

Jbardo37 said:


> I don’t think many footballers want to play for Man United these days.


And even less wanna play for Everton, which was my point


----------



## Stellar (May 30, 2016)

I am pro AEW as a viewer and overall enjoy that product more than WWE, BUT....

As a hot indy star I do think that there would be more value going to WWE because it's a widely more known platform with history. It really depends on a wrestlers expectations. Like some wrestlers in WWE are happy with where they are at. Obviously Sami and Kevin chose to stay.

I do think that it's better for young top Indy talent to go to WWE if given the opportunity and then move to AEW over time, like some have chosen to on their own without getting "future endeavored". Again, it does depend on a wrestlers expectations.


----------



## Iused2EnjoyWatchingWWE (Dec 16, 2021)

Seth Grimes said:


> And even less wanna play for Everton, which was my point


I haven't seen football in over a decade, and now you guys make me wanna go watch it lol, I wonder whats so bad about Man United? Last time I watched they were good?


----------



## Fearless Viper (Apr 6, 2019)




----------



## Wridacule (Aug 23, 2018)

Lurker V2.0 said:


> Such an honorable knight you are. Let us all cast down judgement upon father’s who let their daughter work at WWE. Yeah we doers of good are looking down upon the Rock.


I'm not trying to save anyone. I'm just saying if I had a daughter I wouldn't want her forced to attend meetings being told how sexy she needs to dress. Or passed off to creepy John. Or forced to make out with a man older than me on live TV. Surely Simone will be fine, but what about the girls that aren't 4th generation?


----------



## FabioLight (Jan 31, 2011)

If this was AEW 2019-2021 before the massive influx of WWE and ROH talent. I would go AEW 100%. However, going to AEW right now I would feel as a wrestler that it would be easy to get lost in the shuffle. Too many things and too many people right now. AEW seems to have a better work environment in which you can work with other companies will give you more mainstream exposure and perhaps better booking depending if Vince likes you or not.

Overall if I just want to hone my craft I would go to Japan. If I just want stardom I would go to WWE and if I want creative freedom and have hardcore matches I would go to AEW.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

Realistically though, why would WWE sign hot indie guys? They have college athletes and MMA converts they can mold into the type of stars they want.


----------



## CaféDeChampion (Sep 27, 2021)

I would go with the WWE. Take a look at Carmelo Hayes, the guy is the typical indy guy but he has been booked really good and if he can keep it going to the main roster, he will make a lot of money. There are a lot of upsides to going to WWE.

AEW, even the pillars like Jungle Boy or Darby Allin are not booked the best. So to come in as someone who doesn't have any meaning to the company? That would be even worst and there is always the possibility that a new WWE guy will come in and steal your spot at any moment when it is way more guaranteed in the WWE.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Lurker V2.0 said:


> I would be interested to hear a minority’s take.





Lurker V2.0 said:


> Yes a minority race. Some people are of the opinion AEW doesn’t push minorities so would this be detraction from signing with them.





Lurker V2.0 said:


> Such an honorable knight you are. Let us all cast down judgement upon father’s who let their daughter work at WWE. Yeah we doers of good are looking down upon the Rock.





Wridacule said:


> I'm not trying to save anyone. I'm just saying if I had a daughter I wouldn't want her forced to attend meetings being told how sexy she needs to dress. Or passed off to creepy John. Or forced to make out with a man older than me on live TV. Surely Simone will be fine, but what about the girls that aren't 4th generation?



not gonna lie @Wridacule - i found this funny as fuck

dude’s asking for (USA) minority opinions, and then slags your take first chance xD xD




PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Realistically though, why would WWE sign hot indie guys? They have college athletes and MMA converts they can mold into the type of stars they want.


exactly my point


----------



## Iused2EnjoyWatchingWWE (Dec 16, 2021)

Because people actually know WWE exists?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Iused2EnjoyWatchingWWE said:


> Because people actually know WWE exists?


he says, ironically, in the AEW section


----------



## Iused2EnjoyWatchingWWE (Dec 16, 2021)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> he says, ironically, in the AEW section


I am talking outside of wrestling forums lol


----------



## Lurker V2.0 (Feb 2, 2021)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> not gonna lie @Wridacule
> 
> dude’s asking for (USA) minority opinions, and then slags your take first chance xD xD


His post was before I asked the question. Sorry to throw water on the burn.

Still with all the talk about AEW holding down minorities I am interested to hear if this is an issue to a prospective talent


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Lurker V2.0 said:


> His post was before I asked the question. Sorry to throw water on the burn.
> 
> Still with all the talk about AEW holding down minorities I am interested to hear if this is an issue to a prospective talent


does it matter if it was before or after?

you were interested and slagged off his first take

i am a minority too btw - i am a white african

lol, people use ’minority’ too loosely xD xD xD



Iused2EnjoyWatchingWWE said:


> I am talking outside of wrestling forums lol


it doesn’t trend worldwide on twitter every week cause nobody is watching bro

you see? Tribalism bullshit when i want to have an honest discussion


----------



## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

Good question, if I'm a 5'7 out of shape midget with little to no charisma, but great working matches, I would go the AEW route.

They will most definitely value me better than WWE.


----------



## Iused2EnjoyWatchingWWE (Dec 16, 2021)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> does it matter if it was before or after?
> 
> you were interested and slagged off his first take
> 
> ...


I don't use twitter dude. Go outside on street and find some random person and ask them do they watch pro wrestling and see what they say. It will prob be something like "What's that?", "Yea I watched Stone Cold when I was kid", "Don't they have that one tall guy that rolls over eyes to back of his head?", "yea WWF is cool", I doubt anyone will be like, yea i watch AEW. If they know about wrestling it will be WWF/WWE.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Iused2EnjoyWatchingWWE said:


> I don't use twitter dude. Go outside on street and find some random person and ask them do they watch pro wrestling and see what they say. It will prob be something like "What's that?", "Yea I watched Stone Cold when I was kid", "Don't they have that one tall guy that rolls over eyes to back of his head?", "yea WWF is cool", I doubt anyone will be like, yea i watch AEW. If they know about wrestling it will be WWF/WWE.


i asked a random guy in my gym if he knew who danhausen was - not only did he know, we did a whole bit and then i gave him chips like hookhausen

the gym owner came along and gave us Orange cassidy kicks and we all laughed

true story


----------



## Iused2EnjoyWatchingWWE (Dec 16, 2021)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i asked a random guy in my gym if he knew who danhausen was - not only did he know, we did a whole bit and then i gave him chips like hookhausen
> 
> the gym owner came along and gave us Orange cassidy kicks and we all laughed
> 
> true story


lies, pro wrestling fans don't go to gym, we dwell is basement all day


----------



## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

Soul Rex said:


> Good question, if I'm a 5'7 out of shape midget with little to no charisma, but great working matches, I would go the AEW route.
> 
> They will most definitely value me better than WWE.



Good point. Any janitor that wants to become a wrestling star would definitely go the All Elite route.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Iused2EnjoyWatchingWWE said:


> lies, pro wrestling fans don't go to gym, we dwell is basement all day


you got me

the story happened, but it was at a 7-11 in the chips aisle


----------



## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i asked a random guy in my gym if he knew who danhausen was - not only did he know, we did a whole bit and then i gave him chips like hookhausen
> 
> the gym owner came along and gave us Orange cassidy kicks and we all laughed
> 
> true story




That feel when CattleClass maybe lifts weights more than a sizeable portion of the AEW roster. FeelsBadMan.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Soul Rex said:


> Good question, if I'm a 5'7 out of shape midget with little to no charisma, but great working matches, I would go the AEW route.
> 
> They will most definitely value me better than WWE.





Hotdiggity11 said:


> Good point. Any janitor that wants to become a wrestling star would definitely go the All Elite route.


what if you were Claudio, but you are on the indies and have to make a choice

or Alastair Black

or even if you are Tyler Black today, coming out of ROH and deciding




Hotdiggity11 said:


> That feel when CattleClass maybe lifts weights more than a sizeable portion of the AEW roster. FeelsBadMan.


the story was true, but the lifting was a lie - it happened in a starbucks and they did not give me OC kicks, but rather OC slaps.

the one Barista then did a whole Alien Kris nose boop thing - and it left coffee foam on my nose

we’re expecting our 2nd child next week


----------



## GohanX (Sep 15, 2021)

If I were a known popular indy wrestler like Ospreay or something AEW seems the logical choice. If I were and unknown though, I can see trying to get through the NXT system first. If you can make it to NXT TV, even if you don't make the cut in WWE you have a much higher profile to go back out into the indies or get hired by AEW with a bigger paycheck than you would get if you went there first to be a Dark job guy.


----------



## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> it doesn’t trend worldwide on twitter every week cause nobody is watching bro
> 
> you see? Tribalism bullshit when i want to have an honest discussion


Do you understand the meaning or "niche product"? Wrestling is an small fanbase with certain amount of loyal fans, they can make something trend on twitter for sure.

But AEW hardcore fanbase is really meaningless compared to other stuff, so you can technically says "nobody watches it".

F1 fanbase is bigger and more pasionate than AEW fanbase by a lot... But it's still a niche product and basically "nobody" outside of it's super diehard fanbase watches it.


----------



## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> what if you were Claudio, but you are on the indies and have to make a choice
> 
> or Alastair Black
> 
> or even if you are Tyler Black today, coming out of ROH and deciding




Claudio would have done better in AEW since mic skills don't seem to be as emphasized as they normally are in WWE. Even with that, Claudio had a pretty good career making good money as a midcarder for around a decade and getting an array of titles. It's not like Claudio is going to be world champion in AEW either.


Aleister Black has pretty much been used the same in AEW as WWE. Well, his entrance was better in NXT so there's that.


Who knows how far Tyler Black would have gone in AEW but I'd wager he has done far better in WWE so I'm sure he's glad he never had to choose.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Soul Rex said:


> Do you understand the meaning or "niche product"? Wrestling is an small fanbase with certain amount of loyal fans, they can make something trend on twitter for sure.
> 
> But AEW hardcore fanbase is really meaningless compared to other stuff, so you can technically says "nobody watches it".
> 
> F1 fanbase is bigger and more pasionate than AEW fanbase by a lot... But it's still a niche product and basically "nobody" outside of it's super diehard fanbase watches it.


of course i understand ‘niche product’ bud

basically everything in this world is a niche product these days except maybe Fifa and top top tier musical stars - because there is so much choice

does not make the fanbase you have any less relevant, to argue otherwise is bad take city - cause it basically disqualifies everything out there in terms of entertainment and sport except Marvel movies, the olympics, fifa world cup and lady gaga

hell, Rugby world cup is watched by almost a billion people and some call it niche / same with cricket


----------



## Iused2EnjoyWatchingWWE (Dec 16, 2021)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> what if you were Claudio, but you are on the indies and have to make a choice
> 
> or Alastair Black
> 
> ...


Claudio is Cesaro right? Well Cesaro does have physique, height, look, but he has 0 charisma or mic skills so we would be yet another Roman's bitch in very short time. *AEW*

Aleister Black? Dude is too short to be playing character he is playing. That sort of gimmick is for giant like Taker or Kane, or even someone of Drew's size. Not to mention those tattoes that won't make him marketable. What kid would want to look up to someone who looks like that lol. If he is gonan be intimidating then avoid WWE, go to *AEW *where wrestlers are generally much smaller

Rollins? If he debuted these days he would be buried by Reigns and at best fighting for US title. He is good in ring, decent on mic when he wants to be, and not that small so he would prob be major player in *AEW*


----------



## Lurker V2.0 (Feb 2, 2021)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> does it matter if it was before or after?
> 
> you were interested and slagged off his first take
> 
> ...


How am I using minorities wrong?

His first take had nothing to do with minorities. Unless you are classifying women as minorities?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Lurker V2.0 said:


> How am I using minorities wrong?
> 
> His first take had nothing to do with minorities. Unless you are classifying women as minorities?


you said you want the opinions of minorities - you have been reading them

both me and Wridacule are minorities

now, do you want the opinions of minorities on minority wrestlers, more specifically USA based minorities - well, i’m sure someone will answer you in due course


----------



## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> what if you were Claudio, but you are on the indies and have to make a choice
> 
> or Alastair Black
> 
> or even if you are Tyler Black today, coming out of ROH and


They would pick WWE because it's a way bigger company with bigger contracts and more exposure.

It's not really complicated.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Soul Rex said:


> They would pick WWE because it's a way bigger company with bigger contracts and more exposure.
> 
> It's not really complicated.


…. Why did claudio leave then


----------



## Wridacule (Aug 23, 2018)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> not gonna lie @Wridacule - i found this funny as fuck
> 
> dude’s asking for (USA) minority opinions, and then slags your take first chance xD xD
> 
> ...


----------



## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> of course i understand ‘niche product’ bud
> 
> basically everything in this world is a niche product these days except maybe Fifa and top top tier musical stars - because there is so much choice
> 
> ...


Things like Rugby and cricket are not niche at all... Maybe in America, but in places where it's popular.

AEW is unpopular in any place in the world, it's the nichest of the nichest.





LifeInCattleClass said:


> …. Why did claudio leave then


I'm a bit confused......

You are asking about new indy stars that are hot in the current indy scene?

Our about Indy stars that already worked in WWE and failed there? I mean of course you will fucking pick AEW, you are already done with the first option.


----------



## hardcorewrasslin (Jun 29, 2016)

fabi1982 said:


> Who is this „so many“? Afaik besides Bryan, Cole and Cesaro who wasn‘t fired but just not renew the contract?


Cole
Danielson
Claudio
FTR
Toni Storm
Hardy


Irish Jet said:


> If Austin White took this advice he’d be a Jericho Appreciator right now.


who?


----------



## BrrrGoesWooo! (Mar 29, 2021)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol… can you let Zach Ryder, Braun Strowman, EC3 and Bray Wyatt know?
> 
> i hear they are all looking for work xD


In addition to @fabi1982 's answer, Cardona is out for a good while with a torn bicep


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Soul Rex said:


> Things like Rugby and cricket are not niche at all... Maybe in America, but in places where it's popular.
> 
> AEW is unpopular in any place in the world, it's the nichest of the nichest.
> 
> ...


you are making it sound like its the regional horse-shoe triathlon - while Dynamite gets 60% the audience of Raw

that is why its so hard to have an honest conversation on here - you can’t get past the tribalism and apply a bit of critical thinking

on Cluadio, you say ‘they take WWE every time’ as an indy star - that it is ‘not really complicated’ - but then ignore people leaving WWE of their own choice, not even considering that it if its not appealing anymore to established stars, then it might not be to indy stars either

I can make quite a few cases for why a hot indy star would pick WWE over AEW - but i will take a guess you can’t put your bias aside long enough to come up with a truthful, good take on why a indy star would pick AEW over WWE

and that makes this conversation ultimately pointless, doesn’t it - cause it goes back to tribalism, which is not what I am interested in


----------



## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol, ok
> 
> i guess i can make that list
> 
> ...


Then again who did it this year? Because the first year or two it was the new car smell everyone wanted to smell, especially the old guys and guys like Mox/Jericho, but who is coming now? They add more indy guys this year than ex WWE stars who decided on their own to leave.

And dont tell me guys like Cesaro are any game changer, because of course guys like him would go to the company not caring about charisma and pay for 5 star matches, how that will pay off at the end of the contract you can see with Cody


----------



## Irish Jet (Nov 15, 2011)

hardcorewrasslin said:


> who?


Indeed.


----------



## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

hardcorewrasslin said:


> Cole
> Danielson
> Claudio
> FTR
> ...


FTR and Hardy are not 2022 guys, thats what @LifeInCattleClass was proclaiming.


----------



## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i’m gonna need you to prove it
> 
> by my count
> 
> ...


I´m gonna need you to prove me wrong 

AEW 
Santana
Adam Cole
Jungle Boy
Sky Blue
Kyle O’Reilly
Matt Hardy
Red Velvet
Buddy Matthews
Scorpio Sky
CM Punk
Jeff Hardy
Adam Cole
Sting
Hikaru Shida
Lee Johnson
Leyla Hirsch
Darius Martin
Anthony Bowens
Jake Atlas
Mike Sydal
Kip Sabian
Kenny Omega

WWE
Aliyah
Ridge Holland
Rhea Ripley
Cody Rhodes
Randy Orton
Shelton Benjamin
Charlotte Flair
Io Shirai
Rick Boogs
Big E
Odessey Jones
Zoey Stark
Simone Johnson
Bayley

Also notice how my WWE list includes several people from NXT, while the AEW one is mainly people we´ve actually seen on Dynamite or Rampage.


----------



## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you are making it sound like its the regional horse-shoe triathlon - while Dynamite gets 60% the audience of Raw
> 
> that is why its so hard to have an honest conversation on here - you can’t get past the tribalism and apply a bit of critical thinking


Its about much more than audience, look at the perception WWE has over AEW in the world out there, you can ask anyone on the streets 8 out of 10 will name a wrestling company they know named "WWF" or "WWE", some might say "WCW" but thats about it. And that is the reason why even indy guys will try to get to WWE, because this is the main place, doesnt matter if you get watched by 60% (dont know if 800 by 2000 is 60%, but anyways  ), when one of your main women have more social media followers than the whole AEW roster combined 

So now I am out of this discussion


----------



## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

yeahright2 said:


> I´m gonna need you to prove me wrong
> 
> AEW
> Santana
> ...




Think Anthony Bowens is good now and Jeff Hardy's absence isn't really an injury thing [Although his body is clearly shot].


----------



## Kenny's Ghost (Nov 23, 2020)

In the grand scheme of things WWE provides a lot more opportunities and you'll become a bigger worldwide star. For most of the world WWE is wrestling for better or worse. Plus the allure of potentially main eventing WM or winning the WWE title. Despite my preferences, that's still the top of the mountain in wrestling. 

I'd rather take that opportunity over potentially just being another guy in AEW.


----------



## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

Personally, I think that being "lost in the shuffle" on a bloated roster has its advantages as long as the paychecks still come in.

Just a more chill existence than being a star and holding titles. I bet it's fun to work Dark where no one gives a fuck what you do.


----------



## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

Geeee said:


> Personally, I think that being "lost in the shuffle" on a bloated roster has its advantages as long as the paychecks still come in.
> 
> Just a more chill existence than being a star and holding titles. I bet it's fun to work Dark where no one gives a fuck what you do.



Seems like a lot of the "Lost in the shuffle" guys are slowly getting converted to pay by appearance as their original contracts expire. The Khan money spigot seems to be slowly getting cut off as far as the free money to do nothing gang is concerned.


----------



## Irish Jet (Nov 15, 2011)

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Seems like a lot of the "Lost in the shuffle" guys are slowly getting converted to pay by appearance as their original contracts expire. The Khan money spigot seems to be slowly getting cut off as far as the free money to do nothing gang is concerned.


I've criticised Khan for a lot but this direction is definitely the correct course. Cut the fat and protect the stars. The idea that he could lose an MJF because he's paying twenty guys to wrestle on YouTube every week isn't worth thinking about.


----------



## Ultimo Duggan (Nov 19, 2021)

reamstyles said:


> Quote


It is a little hard for all the ROH/PWG/Chikara wrestlers Regal & HHH signed to choose to work for a company that didn’t exist when they originally signed with NXT. 

Had AEW been more established And given the choice I would bet most of the former NXT/WWE talent in AEW would pick their current. employer over their former. The Bucks spent like ten plus years making friends, cultivating contacts and all the travelling the world required to do so.

They say to never go into business with your friends but come on…this is the wrestling business we are talking about here. The old adage told us “It’s who you know…” suppresses the first quote I mentioned earlier. In the wrestling business it very much is determined by the company that you keep and your past history with Matt, Nick and formerly Cody.

Of course most of their friends would have chosen AEW over WWE. Kevin Steen and El Generico are two exceptions to that hypothetical trend. Both have really been treated well by WWE. If there was no AEW their bargaining power would be much less effective.

Everyone in AEW can always go to WWE if the whims of TK displeases them. A third company would really help in this regard. Three choices will always be more democratic than, AHEM, two.

WWE’s perks are so few and far between. They still exist more obviously in a promotion in the 1960s. AEW was only established in 2019.

I would also think that the semi-annual mass releases will also influence a wrestler’s employment options. News Flash WWE : THE TALENT REALLY HATES THEM!!!

Knowing that WWE also essentially stated that EVERYONE is under a series of ninety day contracts. The less exposed talent found that out personally these past three years. Oh, yeah, big stars like Bray and Braun can also be released as well. Nobody is safe..,although favouritism does play a part.


----------



## Buhalovski (Jul 24, 2015)

WWE pays you more.
You are getting more famous hence your brand is growing much faster and easier.
Participating in Wrestlemania is a dream for every single one and if you say anything different you are lying to yourself.

The deadly schedule and the risk of getting burned from Vince is the key point here. If the first one is not a problem for you and you avoid the second one then obviously WWE could be better career wise.


----------



## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Think Anthony Bowens is good now and Jeff Hardy's absence isn't really an injury thing [Although his body is clearly shot].


Hardy was on his way to getting his head scanned when he got arrested. I´m thinking concussion.
On the same note, Ripley is said to be okay again, so.. one for one?


----------



## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

yeahright2 said:


> Hardy was on his way to getting his head scanned when he got arrested. I´m thinking concussion.
> On the same note, Ripley is said to be okay again, so.. one for one?



We'll have to see about Ripley but Bowens is literally doing run-ins again so I'd imagine any leg injury he had is now remedied.


----------



## AthleticGirth (Jul 25, 2020)

I wonder what Ben Carter thinks. Massive buzz around his Dark appearances, goes to NXT UK where he currently enjoys a profile lower than if he was in a witness protection program.

He has next to no chance of making the main roster.


----------



## Ultimo Duggan (Nov 19, 2021)

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Seems like a lot of the "Lost in the shuffle" guys are slowly getting converted to pay by appearance as their original contracts expire. The Khan money spigot seems to be slowly getting cut off as far as the free money to do nothing gang is concerned.


A lot of the non-contracted talent are perennially on this forum’s “who to cut?” list. Most here won’t even notice their absence. They are not so much “lost in the shuffle” as they are “demoted for lack of relevance in 2022 AEW”.

I love The Wingmen more than most. That gimmick will not get them far in AEW. The same goes with the recent Dark Order losses of Alan Angels and Stu Grayson. The Dark Order is not getting over anyone besides John Silver, Ten and maybe Evil Uno. Fortunately Alex Reynolds tag team is worth more than the other former members. Stu Grayson is a big loss though. Unfortunately after Silver, Uno and Ten a lot of fans seem to have a hard time remembering any Dark Order members beyond the three of the four who still remain in AEW.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

fabi1982 said:


> Then again who did it this year? Because the first year or two it was the new car smell everyone wanted to smell, especially the old guys and guys like Mox/Jericho, but who is coming now? They add more indy guys this year than ex WWE stars who decided on their own to leave.
> 
> And dont tell me guys like Cesaro are any game changer, because of course guys like him would go to the company not caring about charisma and pay for 5 star matches, how that will pay off at the end of the contract you can see with Cody


well, you have to now quantify ' must they be a game changer ' - cause that will be opinion and ultimately a useless discussion cause Opinion change and differ

then voluntarily left in the last year

Bryan Danielson
Adam Cole
KOR
Stokely Hathaway
Claudio
Jeff Hardy (?)
CM Punk (?)
Christian Cage (Was he in 1 year? I let you decide)

conversely, peeps who were fired and joined

Fish
Keith Lee
Swerve
Buddy Matthews
Malakai
Samoa Joe
Tony Nese
William Regal
2.0

That is not a bad ratio

Also, for fun - indy stars who joined

Jay Lethal
Brody King
Wheeler Yuta
Daniel Garcia
Ethan Page
Danhausen

Did any of these stand a chance of getting a WWE contract? I would argue Ethan Page & Brody King would stand a chance

can you see anything interesting from this data?


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

Totally depends on what kind of a worker they are. Their size, look, body type, mic skills, wrestling skills and overall character.

Not everyone should want to aspire to go to WWE. That's the problem why so many big indie names were disappointed with their time in WWE. 

If you have a vision and your skill set doesn't match what WWE requires. Go to AEW because that's where you will get your chance to do your thing. If you are a clean slate and are good on the mic, have a good enough look, go to WWE. 

It's not about what the performer wants really. It's about what they want to contribute and where would their contributions be valued the most. And most importantly, which system they can fit in based on their personality.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

yeahright2 said:


> I´m gonna need you to prove me wrong
> 
> AEW
> Santana
> ...


sure

Santana - fair
Adam Cole - fair
Jungle Boy - fair

Sky Blue - injured in AEW? not signed either

Kyle O’Reilly - fair

Matt Hardy - not injured, bro got drunk... it was a whole story

Red Velvet - fair

Buddy Matthews - injured? since when?

Scorpio Sky - wrestling this week, soooo...

CM Punk - fair

Jeff Hardy - DUI is not an injury

Adam Cole - fair

Sting - not injured

Hikaru Shida - not injured

Lee Johnson - fair

Leyla Hirsch - fair

Darius Martin - car crash

Anthony Bowens - not injured anymore, but ok

Jake Atlas - not signed

Mike Sydal - fair

Kip Sabian - recovered

Kenny Omega - fair

so, for current injuries you have 12 - unless you somehow want to count injuries for a year or something?

I'll trust you on the current injured WWE guys, cause i dunno

and that is 14


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

fabi1982 said:


> FTR and Hardy are not 2022 guys, thats what @LifeInCattleClass was proclaiming.


wait, 2022? or a year?

XD. how small is this window gonna get? XD XD XD


----------



## Strike Force (Sep 14, 2015)

The original question is impossible to answer because no two people are the same. This is like asking whether all law school graduates should prefer Firm A or Firm B. That depends on the person's career goals, preferences, and expectations, and unless you can read the mind of every person choosing between the two companies, you can't possibly answer that question.

All that being said, if I were choosing between the two, I'd go AEW all the way. I'm handsome and can talk but I'm only 6 ft tall and can't do flips or any of that crazy s*** (picture a poor man's Xavier Woods), so I don't think WWE would have a place for me. In AEW I might have an outside shot.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Strike Force said:


> The original question is impossible to answer because no two people are the same. This is like asking whether all law school graduates should prefer Firm A or Firm B. That depends on the person's career goals, preferences, and expectations, and unless you can read the mind of every person choosing between the two companies, you can't possibly answer that question.
> 
> All that being said, if I were choosing between the two, I'd go AEW all the way. I'm handsome and can talk but I'm only 6 ft tall and can't do flips or any of that crazy s*** (picture a poor man's Xavier Woods), so I don't think WWE would have a place for me. In AEW I might have an outside shot.


lol - the original was more a hypothetical

if an imaginary hot indy star is sitting and doing a pro and con list

what makes him choose WWE over AEW

and since he is imaginary, you can imagine what he might think XD XD XD

The point being, I think the 'PRO' list is getting shorter and shorter and WWE might have an issue in 5 years time with only in-house guys / and losing what is keeping wrestling going on the ground level


----------



## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> well, you have to now quantify ' must they be a game changer ' - cause that will be opinion and ultimately a useless discussion cause Opinion change and differ
> 
> then voluntarily left in the last year
> 
> ...


So you forget about the women who were fired and went to AEW? Wasnt there at least 4 this year? And counting Bivens/Punk/Cage/Hardy is quite a stretch. Punk asked for a contract and was declined. Hardy was fired. Bivens was a (great) manager, Christian wasnt cleared for wrestling by WWE?! And this wasnt 2022?

Anyways…and the list of indy guys, only one WWE should have made an offer is Ethan Page, but they have LA Nightfor that role.


----------



## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> wait, 2022? or a year?
> 
> XD. how small is this window gonna get? XD XD XD


Both are also not in a year  or at least not the year I learned in school


----------



## Strike Force (Sep 14, 2015)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol - the original was more a hypothetical
> 
> if an imaginary hot indy star is sitting and doing a pro and con list
> 
> ...


Understood. At this point, if I didn't fit WWE's precise vision of a star, I don't think I'd even bother with them. If Indy guys start believing they really have no chance, that's bad news for WWE, because even if you want all your top stars to look like John Cena and Randy Orton, you need diversity on the roster and won't have it if everyone who isn't 6'5 and dashingly handsome won't even give you a look.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

fabi1982 said:


> So you forget about the women who were fired and went to AEW? Wasnt there at least 4 this year? And counting Bivens/Punk/Cage/Hardy is quite a stretch. Punk asked for a contract and was declined. Hardy was fired. Bivens was a (great) manager, Christian wasnt cleared for wrestling by WWE?! And this wasnt 2022?
> 
> Anyways…and the list of indy guys, only one WWE should have made an offer is Ethan Page, but they have LA Nightfor that role.


didn't they change his name?

the women was Ruby and Toni, no?

Ruby was fired, Toni asked for her release - so 50/50

but I am not arguing women - if I was a women indy star i would 1000% try to go to WWE, no doubt - for various reasons



fabi1982 said:


> Both are also not in a year  or at least not the year I learned in school


German school does not count - you guys learn engineering while we still play with clay


----------



## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> didn't they change his name?
> 
> the women was Ruby and Toni, no?
> 
> ...


I didnt even learn to eat dirt properly


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

fabi1982 said:


> I didnt even learn to eat dirt properly


liar - you took the dirt and built a fully functional micro-habitat when you were 7 XD XD


----------



## Klive Iverson (8 mo ago)

I read somewhere that WWE is developmental for AEW.


----------



## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> liar - you took the dirt and built a fully functional micro-habitat when you were 7 XD XD


You really overestimate this „germans are masters of engeneering“. I cant even get a can of beens open without the help of my wife 😂


----------



## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

WWE isn't looking to the indies anymore. So this is kind of a pointless discussion.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

I mean the obvious reason is WWE is just bigger 

But it really comes down to do you think you can convince Vince and HHH to like you or Tony and The Elite. AEW is so new we haven't even got the chance to see somebody that wasn't an established star or member of The Elite reach the mountain. But WWE is so old we know all the possible difficulties.


----------



## THE_OD (Nov 21, 2016)

Well. Its pretty much been said


They are still the biggest, and most popular wrestling organisation
The dream of holding their championshiop and wrestling at wrestlemania. Still the most prestigous title and the most prestigious PPV in the world
If you do well enough to be a mainstay, even in the midcard, youre set for life. Guys like Miz and Ziggler are millionaires
Even if things don't work out. All that TV exposure helps you become a much bigger deal, and you can earn much more in other promotions. Plenty of ex WWE guys still live off their WWE career
It opens doors to other opportunities. Plenty of WWE wrestlers have featured in movies, tv shows, commercials etc
The celeb factor. While most here dislike it. I think a lot of wrestlers will probably find it very cool to go into the ring with celebrities like Johnny Knoxville, Bad Bunny etc


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

fabi1982 said:


> You really overestimate this „germans are masters of engeneering“. I cant even get a can of beens open without the help of my wife 😂


Lolll - sure

remember, i did apartment development there - the first time i ever met a ‘drywall engineer’ and a ‘tiling engineer’ XD XD XD


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RainmakerV2 said:


> WWE isn't looking to the indies anymore. So this is kind of a pointless discussion.


Do you think that hurts or helps them long term?

sure, in-house you have created stars like Orton, Roman, Brock, Rock and Cena

but no AJs, Hardys, Edge & Christian, Foley Etc

what I mean is, their in-house seems to always be the guy, and that is great - but the guy need to face credible people - and they really produce consistent Quality in-house over the next 10 years?


----------



## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Do you think that hurts or helps them long term?
> 
> sure, in-house you have created stars like Orton, Roman, Brock, Rock and Cena
> 
> ...



That's what 2.0 is for. You can mock the ratings and think it's below your intelligence quotient to watch, but it exists for a reason.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RainmakerV2 said:


> That's what 2.0 is for. You can mock the ratings and think it's below your intelligence quotient to watch, but it exists for a reason.


No, i get it - it definitely has a place

what I mean is - can WWE from that System produce lower, mid and main eventers at the QUANTITY they need to replace older stars Either leaving for AEW or taking reduced schedules

ie> not tapping indies


----------



## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> No, i get it - it definitely has a place
> 
> what I mean is - can WWE from that System produce lower, mid and main eventers at the QUANTITY they need to replace older stars Either leaving for AEW or taking reduced schedules
> 
> ie> not tapping indies



I don't think they need to worry about quantity. Half their shows are commercials and rematches. And they still do 2 million every week. So. I mean, no?


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

RainmakerV2 said:


> WWE isn't looking to the indies anymore. So this is kind of a pointless discussion.


Rok-C, who is by far the best women they have coming up, is from the indies. I don't think they have shut the door on the indies, just less active.

Their new golden boy, Austin Theory, debuted for the death match promotion CZW and is an indy guy, so they'd be dumb to ignore upcoming talent on there.

Carmelo Hayes, Solo Sikoa, Wendy Choo, Cora Jade and WALTER Gunther are other indy alumni who are/are likely to play a big part on the main roster.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic (Jun 9, 2017)

Everyone who ever gets in this business has a bump card. 

They have so many bumps until they can't do it anymore. And 100% of wrestlers are only as marketable as their name allows them to be.

You go to wherever gets you the most eyes on yourself. 

If AEW is promising you a top run, and WWE says you have to work for it, the decision is easy

If WWE wants you to be a mid-carder for the next 10 years, I am taking that over anything else in wrestling.

Who do you think gets a bigger line at conventions:

Santino Marella or Mike Quackenbush.


----------



## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

Simple: For your future (stability) and health.

In AEW, there are less trained and experienced talent to work, so you're most likely going to get injured by someone. WWE won't have you risk killing yourself on Raw or Smackdown with crazy spots each week & Is more character based and allows you to get more over as a talent and connect with the audience so in the long term, you're over. This is important.

In AEW, while you may feel cool about having a boss who you can consider a friend and let you do whatever you want, which feels like 'creative freedom', this in reality is perhaps the most damaging aspect to your career in the company since many indy guys are un-checked, not ready for TV, and need that training and help to become better.

AEW will have you go out there in front of a crowd for the sake of just doing the same moves that were likely done a match or two ago. This match will likely not have much background or psychology. Your opponent will give you a piledriver on a concrete floor, from which you'll get up from like it was a tap on the shoulder. You'll no sell it...since the company didn't properly train you.

I hate to say it but, if you are an indy guy and were signed to AEW, it's likely because you didn't make the cut & weren't good enough to even go to NXT.

WWE is the pinnacle of where your wrestling career should be. Let's face it, it's the place as a kid you looked up to.

Lastly, and probably most important...WWE brings tradition and more reliability than the new-startup AEW.

Based on the track record, since WWE has been around forever, you're more likely stable if you sign with them. In AEW, it's too new to know what the future holds. You can't assume they'll be around in 10 years. Even one of the 'founders' of AEW, Cody Rhodes, left to WWE and admitted recently that the lack of depth in characters and in matchups was one reason he left to WWE to better his future.


----------



## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

When you’re on the outside looking in, AEW might creatively seem more enticing. However, if you’re in the inside, it’s a job. wwe has great opportunities to grow and put more food on the table. I would pick WWE.


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

Chan Hung said:


> In AEW, there are less trained and experienced talent to work with so if you sign there you're most likely going to get injured by someone.


A bit of a myth here. Virtually everyone in AEW has been professionally trained just as they are in WWE. Blown spots happen everywhere, though obviously there's a bigger chance of them if a match has more athletic complexity than two guys trading punches. Ridge Holland damn near killed Big E with a sloppy overhead suplex and Shotzi was the Queen of Botches at MITB.

As for experienced talent to work with... huh? They have old heads like Arn Anderson, Jake Roberts, Tully Blanchard, Jerry Lynn, Dean Malenko, BJ Whitmer, Ace Steel, William Regal, Paul Wight, Taz and Mark Henry.

They have seasoned active wrestlers like CM Punk, Bryan Danielson, Chris Jericho, Sting, Dustin Rhodes, Christopher Daniels, Frankie Kazarian, Christian Cage, Matt Hardy, Colt Cabana, Jay Lethal, Claudio, Serena Deeb and Samoa Joe.

By the 'indy training' rationale, someone like MJF has inferior training to Baron Corbin, because he was trained by Create-a-Pro, not the WWE PC. WWE PC isn't flawless by any means and has trained some terrible workers, while some great workers have come from obscure training schools. Daniel Garcia, Wheeler Yuta and Lee Moriarty are three of the most technically sound young guys in America, wrestle clean and precise styles, and didn't spend a day in the WWE PC.


----------



## AlexBerg (Nov 22, 2021)

Wridacule said:


> WWE will win this poll based on the "it's where every kid dreams of being" which is indeed true....TODAY. I dont think the answer will be so obvious if AEW manages to stick around for another 5 years. No one has had a chance to grow up with AEW yet.
> 
> Once some of these 10 year olds realize there's an alternative, and that they don't have to watch the same two guys wrestle for 6 months before they get something new, and that there's a company that won't insult them just for being a fan of someone other than who they were told to like...!
> 
> Low blow incoming...How could any father feel safe with their daughter working for Vince??? Don't think that this won't be a factor in years to come. Doubt Tony makes anyone slob him down while is wife watches 😒


No reason to fear. All Tony sperm ended, when he hugged Cesaro and Okada.


----------



## KrysRaw1 (Jun 18, 2019)

WWE easy. AEW is trying to be like WWE anyway.


----------



## KrysRaw1 (Jun 18, 2019)

The " I'm going to Mania" moment is what its all aboit. 

Nobody says "I'm going to All Out"


----------



## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

Who would you pick between a 77yo Vince or a 39yo Tony Kahn?

Vince will be an 80yo in 3 years when you finally get out of NXT and sign your new 200k salary under Vince and Johnny.


----------



## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

KrysRaw1 said:


> The " I'm going to Mania" moment is what its all aboit.
> 
> Nobody says "I'm going to All Out"


Nobody was saying "I'm going to Mania" when Vince McMahon was in his 30's like Tony Kahn is now.

A young star would have to consider the long-term factors, and that'd be an easy decision for mine.


----------



## TeamFlareZakk (Jul 15, 2020)

AEW is more reccomended because Tony Khan is the lesser of the evils to deal with.


----------



## Ger (Jul 20, 2018)




----------



## CovidFan (Aug 19, 2020)

eviltwins said:


> WWE.
> 
> Well, If you fail in WWE, you can just go to AEW.


This is the correct answer but it's failing to mention if you succeed in AEW, you can go back to WWE and ask for a higher price and better "creative".


----------



## Seth Grimes (Jul 31, 2015)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> well, lets look at the list
> 
> WWE people who willingly left and did not re-sign with WWE or actively asked for their release
> 
> ...


As I said most of the guys you've mentioned weren't valued at all by WWE. Pac was on 205 live, Cole was on their developmental show, KOR also, Shawn Spears was a jobber, Hardy was a jobber, Cesaro was a jobber. Only ones that actually had good spots in WWE and willingly left were FTR and Bryan. Although as I said, Bryan had accomplished everything he ever wanted to. Mox and Jericho also were mad so they left. It's not as much a "we chose AEW over WWE" as it is an "I'm pissed off with them and just wanna leave to anyone else even half good. Like even Mox himself said "fuck WWE for making me refuse that money". Obviously he wanted to stay but didn't wanna be told what to do

I'd say the comparison is more like why would someone league the EPL for Eredivisie, in which they literally never do unless their EPL team isn't playing them


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

fabi1982 said:


> Who is this „so many“? Afaik besides Bryan, Cole and Cesaro who wasn‘t fired but just not renew the contract?


Bryan was on the verge of re-signing with WWE until COVID hit and their Japan deal fell through.


----------



## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

3venflow said:


> Rok-C, who is by far the best women they have coming up, is from the indies. I don't think they have shut the door on the indies, just less active.
> 
> Their new golden boy, Austin Theory, debuted for the death match promotion CZW and is an indy guy, so they'd be dumb to ignore upcoming talent on there.
> 
> Carmelo Hayes, Solo Sikoa, Wendy Choo, Cora Jade and WALTER Gunther are other indy alumni who are/are likely to play a big part on the main roster.



Choo and Hayes are DOA on the main roster.


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

WWE

Bigger brand. More exposure. Wrestlemania, Summerslam. Computer games, possible TV/ movie deals. If you left, you can charge more money as an ex WWE talent. It's a no brainer.

Even if you have to slum it out in NXT for a few years, it doesn't matter. Look at guys like Walter now.


----------



## RVD4200 (May 12, 2020)

If i knew i had a long term contract with equal pay it would definitely be AEW. I rather work less and get paid then have to constantly be on the grind. I wouldnt care if i won a title or not its not a real competition anyways.


----------



## CowboyKurtAngle (Jul 18, 2014)

Depends on your physical attributes. I can't imagine an Adam Cole on WWE main vs Brock Lesnar for example, but he can be pushed more on AEW. Killer Kross seemed more suited to WWE, but they fucked up with him on the main.









Killer Kross Seems To Imply He Turned Down AEW Offer From Tony Khan


Kross recently spoke about fans who want him in AEW and clarified his reasoning for being so selective with how he's presented.




www.wrestlinginc.com


----------



## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you are making it sound like its the regional horse-shoe triathlon - while Dynamite gets 60% the audience of Raw
> 
> that is why its so hard to have an honest conversation on here - you can’t get past the tribalism and apply a bit of critical thinking


Uuh Raw is nearly a niche product itself lol




> on Cluadio, you say ‘they take WWE every time’ as an indy star - that it is ‘not really complicated’ - but then ignore people leaving WWE of their own choice, not even considering that it if its not appealing anymore to established stars, then it might not be to indy stars either
> 
> I can make quite a few cases for why a hot indy star would pick WWE over AEW - but i will take a guess you can’t put your bias aside long enough to come up with a truthful, good take on why a indy star would pick AEW over WWE
> 
> and that makes this conversation ultimately pointless, doesn’t it - cause it goes back to tribalism, which is not what I am interested in


1

Dude I thought you were asking on an hypothetical scenario where these wrestlera where new and upcoming indy stars choosing to work on either company for the first time.

Before you go onto your tribalism rant nonsense you need to understand that both cases in particular are totally fucking different.

Totally fucking different choosing to work for another company when you already didn't make on the other than decide what is better for you as a new upcoming talent and meet both options from the get go.

This small detail totally changes your question and the course of this discussion.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Well honestly I'd sign with WWE first. Have my contract run out and then go to AEW for a bit and then run the indies while I work there. Got to experience both.


----------



## troyag93 (Apr 9, 2016)

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Good point. Any janitor that wants to become a wrestling star would definitely go the All Elite route.


Hey! I’m no 5’7 , charisma vacuum geek.


----------



## Art Vandaley (Jan 9, 2006)

Right now? WWE.

AEW's roster is so large it'd be hard to get noticed, no matter how good you are.


----------



## booyakas (Jun 6, 2017)

unlike what many people dont realize, wwe has very high quality wrestling. the last few years are mostly very weak, but the wrestling itself is of high quality.
and vince wants his wrestlers to look real in the match.

for example, chokes are banned, mostly because a human instinct when choking is to try to remove the other guys hands from the throat. most guys wont sell it successfully. and when they dont sell it successfully, it looks cheap and fake.

the entire AEW roster are a bunch no-sell flip-flops backyarders.


but what about medical protocols ? wwe wont let wrestle concussed and constantly do drug tests, sometimes wrestlers dont pass these, even when they are perfectly fine drug free.
aew doesnt check for anything. instead they will throw eachother on 15 tables from a latter just to get a pop. ill be surprised if sammy guevara will be alive by the age of 30. but if not death, then wheel chair is his destiny.


NXT teaches guys to wrestle and to perform infront of live TV. AEW have its own botches twitter account.


----------



## ste1592 (Dec 20, 2014)

Lots of different reasons to choose either one. If I had to try and give a detailled answer, I'd make some sort of list:

- Money : WWE.

- Exposure : WWE.

- Opportunity to reach the top : eh, it's a toss up here for me. AEW is much more bloated at the moment, and it feels like they can't adapt to the changes very well so you're either penciled to be AEW champion or you're gonna have to wait a lot; on the other hand, WWE is FOTC-centric to a degree that it would discourage me from signing with them.

- Creative freedom : AEW.

- Backstage : judging from most reports, AEW.

- Management : AEW when it comes to dealing with talents, WWE for business.

- Safety and health: I know I'm going to get a lot of shit for this, but AEW has people working dangerous matches what, once a month? Honestly, considering the grand scheme of things, I think it's safer to work a street fight match once a month than a regular match 4 times a week.


Edit. about the last part: is WWE still running a shit ton of house shows? Because if they aren't it's a completely different thing.


----------



## Bosnian21 (May 27, 2019)

I’d prefer AEW if I love wrestling. Get to work with the best wrestlers in the world, NJPW x AEW supershow every year it seems, better fans, lighter schedule, and build something new.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

*Not reading that when the answer is simple: not enough spots. The roster is over inflated as is, and we see new signing after new signing flop miserably after two weeks of hype. *


----------



## sideon (Sep 18, 2008)

Money and potential mainstream fame, it's not that hard to figure out. Only smarks think AEW has mainstream appeal.


----------



## VodooPimpin (Oct 10, 2021)

At this point I think it’s like if you want to be on a bigger stage and become a real star you’d go wwe. If you want to wrestle good matches and get over with the more hardcore wrestling crowd you’d go aew


----------



## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

sideon said:


> Only smarks think AEW has mainstream appeal.


And to be fair, only marks think WWE has mainstream appeal.

Wrestlers who branch off into a non-wrestling, mainstream career are almost non-existent.


----------



## Upstart474 (May 13, 2018)

Neither WWE nor AEW is better for everyone. It comes down to choice, if you want to be famous, WWE is the better choice. AEW is not great at making stars expect for MJF, Cargill, Baker. If you can make it in WWE, you can make it anywhere. The Rock is one of the biggest movie stars in the world. Cena is continuing to get more and more roles, he will also be a big office star. AEW needs former superstars like CM Punk and Danielson. The biggest problem in terms of working is working for Vince who will micromanage you. Also, you get little personal time with WWE, you pretty much live in a suitcase. The negative side of working with AEW to be is mindless bleeding. This is the part of wrestling I don't like to bleed profusely for people's entertainment. Even Ric Flair think it is not a good thing, it is easier to contact diseases.


----------



## tomjh (Jan 19, 2011)

Seth Grimes said:


> Pretty obvious, bigger and better company. There is almost no reason to sign for AEW it's pretty much the stepping stone to get to WWE, you only choose AEW when WWE doesn't want you, I'm confused as to how this is even a question?
> 
> "Why do footballers wanna play for Manchester United and not Everton?"


Ronaldo wants to take a pay cut to leave Manchester United, while...
Frankie de Jong wants to take a pay cut NOT to go to Manchester United.

Pretty bad analogy mate


----------



## wwetna1 (Apr 7, 2005)

It really depends.

If you are a female you choose wwe. Bianca is basically the main act on raw and when she’s not, Becky or Asuka is. They are treated as being hugely important. Charlotte and Rousey were the face of a mania night and moved a stadium of tickets long before Austin was announced. Sasha got tv spots. Bianca got a Fenty deal, applebees commercials, espn coverage, fs1 coverage, si coverage, and invited to hang out with Megan. Bella’s have made millions. There is dedicated time, more time than any other company on tv for women on nxt weekly, time in the uk for women, main events on raw, and premium live events are placing the female titles first when reign doesn’t defend … it’s not question why you do it as a woman. Impact should be second for women and AEW third


If you are a male, you ask if you are an athlete or not basically. If you’re an athlete choose wwe where look, charisma, etc matter more. If you want to have Hollywood desires choose wwe. If you want the pinnacle and ultimate goal of mania choose wwe. But if your dream is to perform in an arena, on tv, and work long matches and make good money and you only care about the art of it all, choose AEW like you would have chose TNA in the past. And if you want a niche audience where it’s more intimate, choose Impact tbh.


----------



## Freelancer (Aug 24, 2010)

Money would be the only reason


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Seth Grimes said:


> As I said most of the guys you've mentioned weren't valued at all by WWE. Pac was on 205 live, Cole was on their developmental show, KOR also, Shawn Spears was a jobber, Hardy was a jobber, Cesaro was a jobber. Only ones that actually had good spots in WWE and willingly left were FTR and Bryan. Although as I said, Bryan had accomplished everything he ever wanted to. Mox and Jericho also were mad so they left. It's not as much a "we chose AEW over WWE" as it is an "I'm pissed off with them and just wanna leave to anyone else even half good. Like even Mox himself said "fuck WWE for making me refuse that money". Obviously he wanted to stay but didn't wanna be told what to do
> 
> I'd say the comparison is more like why would someone league the EPL for Eredivisie, in which they literally never do unless their EPL team isn't playing them


what does it matter about their position or anything else you typed?

they actively left the fed roster to go elsewhere, for each their own reasons

is it that far fetched to then make the assumption of ‘a hot indy star will start to choose AEW over WWE for the same reasons’ ?

what i am getting at is WWE was the goal for any indy star who wanted to reach national or global level

not so anymore - and in fact i think AEW has more ‘carrots’ for them now


----------



## hardcorewrasslin (Jun 29, 2016)

yeahright2 said:


> I´m gonna need you to prove me wrong
> 
> AEW
> Santana
> ...


Your AEW list just has names of wrestlers who aren’t even injured and also of course you’re gonna have to add NXT names to that list when the main roster has like 5 constant wrestlers who show up each week per show.


----------



## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

hardcorewrasslin said:


> Your AEW list just has names of wrestlers who aren’t even injured and also of course you’re gonna have to add NXT names to that list when the main roster has like 5 constant wrestlers who show up each week per show.


Not injured anymore. That doesn´t mean they weren´t injured at some point this year.


----------



## Seth Grimes (Jul 31, 2015)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> what does it matter about their position or anything else you typed?
> 
> they actively left the fed roster to go elsewhere, for each their own reasons
> 
> ...


The point is that they're leaving because they're not being used and if they were, they wouldn't leave. It's like claiming Ciampa leaving and going to AEW is him "choosing AEW over WWE" when he can't get a single push in WWE. The difference with a hot indy star would be how self confident they are that they're good enough to get tv time there. If they think they would easily do it, they're always gonna choose WWE

Problem with your idea is that AEW is yet to make a single big star out of anyone. MJF is the biggest and still even he is only known in wrestling circles, he's not even a star let alone on a global scale, it's simply never possible in AEW because of the ceiling the company has



tomjh said:


> Ronaldo wants to take a pay cut to leave Manchester United, while...
> Frankie de Jong wants to take a pay cut NOT to go to Manchester United.
> 
> Pretty bad analogy mate


And they aren't going to Everton are they?

So pretty good analogy considering it fits exactly how I intended it to


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Seth Grimes said:


> The point is that they're leaving because they're not being used and if they were, they wouldn't leave. It's like claiming Ciampa leaving and going to AEW is him "choosing AEW over WWE" when he can't get a single push in WWE. The difference with a hot indy star would be how self confident they are that they're good enough to get tv time there. If they think they would easily do it, they're always gonna choose WWE
> 
> Problem with your idea is that AEW is yet to make a single big star out of anyone. MJF is the biggest and still even he is only known in wrestling circles, he's not even a star let alone on a global scale, it's simply never possible in AEW because of the ceiling the company has
> 
> ...


that's a bad point, cause A. they were used and they were offered new contracts to a man / and B. others who are being 'used wrong' is staying in WWE and not leaving

hell, Danielson was used all the time. They built a whole show around Cole and his little friends

i mean. c'mon man XD


also, who is talking about making stars? why are you lads always creating these imaginary benchmarks to what should be a simple conversation.


----------



## Seth Grimes (Jul 31, 2015)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> that's a bad point, cause A. they were used and they were offered new contracts to a man / and B. others who are being 'used wrong' is staying in WWE and not leaving
> 
> hell, Danielson was used all the time. They built a whole show around Cole and his little friends
> 
> ...


"here's a new contract where you're gonna be used as a jobber just like you were the last few years"

Yeah I've already stated that Bryan was an outlier in this because he's achieved everything he wanted in his career

Come on what? You're not understanding a really basic concept? If you play for Manchester United but are the third choice backup for your position only getting to play 10 matches a season, you're obviously gonna choose to join a worse team for more playing time. You aren't "choosing them over your current team" as much as you are "leaving because they don't value you and looking to go somewhere that will get you playing time". I don't understand what's confusing about this?

You think people who get into wrestling don't have the goal to be a huge megastar like The Rock or Stone Cold? Your question is about a hot indy star choosing a team, they're obviously gonna be thinking about "which one can make me into a star like those I grew up idolising". No one joins a team to live as a famous jobber, no one wants to be a Disco Inferno, everyone wants to be a Stone Cold


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Seth Grimes said:


> "here's a new contract where you're gonna be used as a jobber just like you were the last few years"
> 
> Yeah I've already stated that Bryan was an outlier in this because he's achieved everything he wanted in his career
> 
> ...


man, I have a challenge for you

and experiment in critical thinking - this is now debate class

You are on the pro side - tell me some valid reasons why a Indy star would pick AEW over WWE - we know its happened, so it is 100% possible - lets see if you can put your Fed glasses away and think this shit through

and.... go!


----------



## Seth Grimes (Jul 31, 2015)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> man, I have a challenge for you
> 
> and experiment in critical thinking - this is now debate class
> 
> ...


We don't need to play this game, you could just answer what I've already given you?

Why would a player who is first team for Manchester United ever leave to join Everton?

How is it considered them "choosing" AEW over WWE when they were a jobber in WWE?

Do you think that wrestlers aim to be Disco Inferno or The Rock?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Seth Grimes said:


> We don't need to play this game, you could just answer what I've already given you?
> 
> Why would a player who is first team for Manchester United ever leave to join Everton?
> 
> ...


wwe makes no more Rocks mate

a player will leave Man U cause

1. They get along with the coaching method better
2. They can start instead of riding the bench
3. Less games, cause they don’t make europa
4. The coach will play them in their fav position
5. The are made captain or vice-captain
6. Everton might be offering them more money

And a 1000 other likely reasons - everton has players, don’t they? You can’t tell me 100% of them would rather play for man U with a straight face


----------



## AthleticGirth (Jul 25, 2020)

Seth Grimes said:


> Why would a player who is first team for Manchester United ever leave to join Everton?


Lets ask Andrei Kanchelskis.


----------



## Seth Grimes (Jul 31, 2015)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> wwe makes no more Rocks mate
> 
> a player will leave Man U cause
> 
> ...


That's not answering the question though, do they dream of being The Rock or Disco Inferno? Actually, seeing as you want it more recent. Do they dream of being Cena or Disco Inferno?

Haha okay now I see you don't know much about football, almost none of those factors outside of 2 or 6 actually come into play in this situation.

Uhm, yeah? Almost every single Everton player would obviously rather be at Man United lmao there's be a few outliers like your Bryan and Mox, but the massive majority easily would go to United.



AthleticGirth said:


> Lets ask Andrei Kanchelskis.


Do you have a point? You randomly say the name of a player that United openly put on the transfer market?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Seth Grimes said:


> That's not answering the question though, do they dream of being The Rock or Disco Inferno? Actually, seeing as you want it more recent. Do they dream of being Cena or Disco Inferno?
> 
> Haha okay now I see you don't know much about football, almost none of those factors outside of 2 or 6 actually come into play in this situation.
> 
> ...


well, the question is about big A brand teams vs B brand, no? It can apply to any analogy - Leister Tigers or Bath

that’s rugby - and still rings true

even so, if you admit 2 / 6 reasons ‘come into play’ - then you are admitting 2 reasons is logical. Therefore you have to admit there are at least 2 / 6 reasons for why a indy star would choose AEW over WWE

and to answer the Cena / disco question - its easy. Not a single indy star goes to wwe to try and be cena - there is no track record of any non-homegrown star going ‘cena’ level in the fed

any person in the industry with 2 braincells will hope to have an AJ Styles career in wwe, not a cena one

as all ‘cena’ level stars are in-house produced over the last 20 years - rock, cena, brock, orton, roman - see the pattern?

Ps> you also allow for the outliers like mox and bryan, which means you again acknowledge there is a chance a indy guy will pick aew over wwe

Man… i love winning debates so convincingly


----------



## AthleticGirth (Jul 25, 2020)

Seth Grimes said:


> Do you have a point? You randomly say the name of a player that United openly put on the transfer market?


The point is there's an actual answer to your question with a real life example. It's not a random name either.

Kanchelskis left for more money as well as having a fall out with Ferguson.


----------



## Seth Grimes (Jul 31, 2015)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> well, the question is about big A brand teams vs B brand, no? It can apply to any analogy - Leister Tigers or Bath
> 
> that’s rugby - and still rings true
> 
> ...


I dunno shit about rugby btw haha never been my thing

I'm not asking you if they wanna be Cena, I'm asking you if they want the career that Cena has had. One that is only possible in WWE. You don't think that Punk, and Bryan, were not Cena levels for a period of time? Seth Rollins? You really gonna run with the indy stars never do well in WWE thing when these names were at the top for long periods?

Yeah the two logical reasons that I've already myself said are possible? I'll say it just once more. Someone not being valued by WWE, sitting their ass on the main roster as a jobber, or a champion in the 3rd/4th show, and them leaving, that isn't them "choosing" AEW.

WHAT!!!! You really think people wanna be a guy like AJ with one of the most forgettable main title runs, and spent the last year+ doing nothing? Over CENA, the guy who has the most championships in modern history. The guy who has now gotten into Hollywood and is generally known everywhere in the world? YOU ARE MAD SON

Yeah ofc there's a chance not everyone is the same, just like there's a small chance a player might choose to play for Everton over Man U. But generally, 9/10 players will choose United.

That's cool, me too, can't wait to see you win one 



AthleticGirth said:


> The point is there's an actual answer to your question with a real life example. It's not a random name either.
> 
> Kanchelskis left for more money as well as having a fall out with Ferguson.


You gave me a real life example from 25+ years ago? And a wrong one at that, the guy left after United wanted to get rid of him, if they wanted to keep him, he'd have stayed.

Yeah you just proved my point? This is an outlier, as I've been repeatedly saying can happen. But on average, almost all players would choose to be first team for United than Everton


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Seth Grimes said:


> I dunno shit about rugby btw haha never been my thing
> 
> I'm not asking you if they wanna be Cena, I'm asking you if they want the career that Cena has had. One that is only possible in WWE. You don't think that Punk, and Bryan, were not Cena levels for a period of time? Seth Rollins? You really gonna run with the indy stars never do well in WWE thing when these names were at the top for long periods?
> 
> ...


lol, no punk and bryan was not cena level

punk was champ and cena main-evented ppvs over him with johnny ace xD xD xD

Again with the 9/10

which means 1 chooses aew

which means there is a chance

which means your earlier call of ‘100% chooses wwe’ was erroneous 

Which means….. LICC wins again

thanks bro, good talk


----------



## Seth Grimes (Jul 31, 2015)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol, no punk and bryan was not cena level
> 
> punk was champ and cena main-evented ppvs over him with johnny ace xD xD xD
> 
> ...


You're honestly gonna tell me that during the summer of Punk, he wasn't by far the biggest wrestler in the world and had he likely stayed in WWE he'd right now be up there with Cena in mount rushmore talks? Bryan at the height of the yes movement was absolutely huge. You're telling me indy guys are looking at those two thinking "meh, pretty shit career I wouldn't want that, now lemme get at that Darby Allin level" lmaooo

Yeah no one said some people wouldn't choose AEW? Point is the majority would all go to WWE, and for very obvious reasons

Oof this gonna be awkward when I right now ask you to show me where I said 100% of indy stars choose WWE, and you can't find it because you're making it up  Just to let you off a little bit, I'll allow you a solid 24 hours to come up with a really good excuse or mental gymnastic to find something I said and act like it says "100% chooses WWE"


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Seth Grimes said:


> You're honestly gonna tell me that during the summer of Punk, he wasn't by far the biggest wrestler in the world and had he likely stayed in WWE he'd right now be up there with Cena in mount rushmore talks? Bryan at the height of the yes movement was absolutely huge. You're telling me indy guys are looking at those two thinking "meh, pretty shit career I wouldn't want that, now lemme get at that Darby Allin level" lmaooo
> 
> Yeah no one said some people wouldn't choose AEW? Point is the majority would all go to WWE, and for very obvious reasons
> 
> Oof this gonna be awkward when I right now ask you to show me where I said 100% of indy stars choose WWE, and you can't find it because you're making it up  Just to let you off a little bit, I'll allow you a solid 24 hours to come up with a really good excuse or mental gymnastic to find something I said and act like it says "100% chooses WWE"


man, you're still on this thread?

we've all moved on bro

you gotta learn to let some stuff go


----------



## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

Since OP is saying the thread is essentially old news, it looks like WWE has won in the poll [Albeit by a marginal amount]. WWE is still the place to go for the time being.


----------



## Seth Grimes (Jul 31, 2015)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> man, you're still on this thread?
> 
> we've all moved on bro
> 
> you gotta learn to let some stuff go


Yeah I thought you might have to go with that one


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Seth Grimes said:


> Yeah I thought you might have to go with that one


pepehands!


----------



## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

But if @LifeInCattleClass is honest, he would have thought the poll would go the other way with way more difference.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

fabi1982 said:


> But if @LifeInCattleClass is honest, he would have thought the poll would go the other way with way more difference.


with the amount of aew negativity on here? Nope

but i hoped for more truthful discussion - there is like 5 posts in this thread for why a hot indy star would pick wwe over aew that i thought was well-thought out

and none of the pro wwe peeps even broached the question on how wwe’s stance on nxt 2.0 can harm them in the eyes of indy stars in the future

which made this a tribalism chat again, which wasn’t the point

but, i expect no less from the board - bad on me for looking for some critical thinking 

instead we get ‘dey wanna be like stone cold’

lolz


----------



## Shaz Cena (9 mo ago)

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Since OP is saying the thread is essentially old news, it looks like WWE has won in the poll [Albeit by a marginal amount]. WWE is still the place to go for the time being.



WWE's championship titles mean a lot more too due to there history. No matter what you think of WWE, you gotta respect them for being on top all this time.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Shaz Cena said:


> WWE's championship titles mean a lot more too due to there history. No matter what you think of WWE, you gotta respect them for being on top all this time.


man, nobody even knows which title is which

like - is the black or blue strap the big gold belt?

the last time in my eyes the fed champ was worth anything was when it was the big gold belt and Cena’s spinner (shock and horror)

the one has a blue strap ffs


----------



## SAMCRO (Jul 10, 2006)

I mean WWE has way more shows thats not bloated, NXT, Smackdown, Raw, you got way more chance to get consistently used and not be apart of a gigantic bloated roster with only 1 show where you'll likely be forgotten about in a few weeks after debuting.

AEW's biggest problem is their roster is too huge, they've only got 1 show and they got over 100 wrestlers, and half of them can't even get on tv and are on the youtube jobber shows. Jay Lethal was signed, a big indy name, had 1 match and lost and disappeared off tv for months, having the occasional match on Dark. Honestly chances are you'd be used and on tv alot more in WWE than in AEW.

And nowadays you pretty much gotta be an ex WWE guy to get consistently used and pushed, so honestly if you want to be in AEW you'd be better off going to NXT making a name for yourself in WWE, then going to AEW.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> with the amount of aew negativity on here? Nope
> 
> but i hoped for more truthful discussion - there is like 5 posts in this thread for why a hot indy star would pick wwe over aew that i thought was well-thought out
> 
> ...


*You don't get to talk about critical thinking when you're completely uneducated on NXT. Their #2 rising star behind Nikkita Lyons is Roxanne. Guess what? Both of them are from the indies. Carmelo Hayes is their best male performer and he's from the indies. You read a stupid ass headline from Bryan Alvarez and assumed NXT is banning all indy wrestlers because they're focusing primarily on college athletes.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

The Legit Lioness said:


> *You don't get to talk about critical thinking when you're completely uneducated on NXT. Their #2 rising star behind Nikkita Lyons is Roxanne. Guess what? Both of them are from the indies. Carmelo Hayes is their best male performer and he's from the indies. You read a stupid ass headline from Bryan Alvarez and assumed NXT is banning all indy wrestlers because they're focusing primarily on college athletes.*


carmelo and roxanne was hardly ‘hot’ were they?

i’m talking about the Ospreay’s, Whites, Okadas, AJs, Nakamuras, Joes of this world whose only logical next step was wwe

the whole nxt system is an affront to a guy like ospreay who can work and has his own identity

edit> the last 'hot' indy guy they picked up was Swerve


----------



## Shaz Cena (9 mo ago)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> man, nobody even knows which title is which
> 
> like - is the black or blue strap the big gold belt?
> 
> ...


I feel the title is worth a lot more now because its no longer a title you defend inside of WWE. It amplifies your stature to new heights to where you represent the WWE outside of WWE.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Shaz Cena said:


> I feel the title is worth a lot more now because its no longer a title you defend inside of WWE. It amplifies your stature to new heights to where you represent the WWE outside of WWE.


i can see your point - that was evident when Big E was champ - he appeared everywhere


----------



## thisissting (Aug 14, 2018)

If your friends with the bucks you can be a curtain jerker and be brought in to do goofy comedy in aew. WWE is still the place the top guys all aspire to despite how bad its become. Aew is OK if you want a light schedule but they will probably fuck up your creative.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> carmelo and roxanne was hardly ‘hot’ were they?
> 
> i’m talking about the Ospreay’s, Whites, Okadas, AJs, Nakamuras, Joes of this world whose only logical next step was wwe
> 
> ...


*And Swerve came here to be put in a freezer.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

The Legit Lioness said:


> *And Swerve came here to be put in a freezer.*


to aew?

he’s featured every week and currently in 2 stories


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> to aew?
> 
> he’s featured every week and currently in 2 stories


*That are going absolutely nowhere. He flounders in meaningless tag matches with Keith Lee. He betrayed Keith in the jobber battle royal just to make up a week later. Keith's reactions have gone to shit. They're losing in yet another tag team clusterfuck, and they'll be on Dark right afterwards.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

The Legit Lioness said:


> *That are going absolutely nowhere. He flounders in meaningless tag matches with Keith Lee. He betrayed Keith in the jobber battle royal just to make up a week later. Keith's reactions have gone to shit. They're losing in yet another tag team clusterfuck, and they'll be on Dark right afterwards.*


lol, bad takes from bad take artist number 1


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol, bad takes from bad take artist number 1


*You do know I'm going to obnoxiously bump this thread when you're proven wrong yet again, right?*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

The Legit Lioness said:


> *You do know I'm going to obnoxiously bump this thread when you're proven wrong yet again, right?*


as long as you know i’ll no-sell that shit xD


----------



## ElTerrible (Feb 8, 2004)

Cause the owner only coerces you to awkward hugs?


----------



## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

Ok @LifeInCattleClass you are hanging on that Ospreay argument, basically the only „hot“ indy guy saying he doesnt care about WWE (wo is not from Japan). Who else is there as a „hot“ indy guy who wouldnt want to go to WWE over AEW? And hot doesnt mean you get cheered in your home gym infront of 150 people.

I am with @The Legit Lioness here, you dont know much about NXT


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

fabi1982 said:


> Ok @LifeInCattleClass you are hanging on that Ospreay argument, basically the only „hot“ indy guy saying he doesnt care about WWE (wo is not from Japan). Who else is there as a „hot“ indy guy who wouldnt want to go to WWE over AEW? And hot doesnt mean you get cheered in your home gym infront of 150 people.
> 
> I am with @The Legit Lioness here, you dont know much about NXT


i’m thinking we can watch out for Ospreay, White, Okada, Chris Bey, Masha Slamovich, Josh Alexander, Vikingo, Dragon Lee, Naito, Shingo, Giulia as stars who would normally take the next step to WWE if that was their only option?

i would put Rush there too…. But that ship has sailed already


----------



## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i’m thinking we can watch out for Ospreay, White, Okada, Chris Bey, Masha Slamovich, Josh Alexander, Vikingo, Dragon Lee, Naito, Shingo, Giulia as stars who would normally take the next step to WWE if that was their only option?
> 
> i would put Rush there too…. But that ship has sailed already


I said „not from Japan“, so I dont label anyone „ind star“ besides Will and Jay. Again, give me some input sweetheart 😘


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

fabi1982 said:


> I said „not from Japan“, so I dont label anyone „ind star“ besides Will and Jay. Again, give me some input sweetheart 😘


why not from japan?

Lol, why do you always want to put some limitation on the conversation - why can‘t wrestlers from japan be considered

can it be…. Because….. AEW has already locked that avenue up, which proves my point?



then just take vikingo, chris bey, josh alexander, rosemary, masha slamovich, dragon lee, laredo kid if you really want


----------



## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> why not from japan?
> 
> Lol, why do you always want to put some limitation on the conversation - why can‘t wrestlers from japan be considered
> 
> ...


Because nee japan stars are not born to love wwe but love njpw. And all of your other names I basically never heard of, if they would be stars, I should have, right?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

fabi1982 said:


> Because nee japan stars are not born to love wwe but love njpw. And all of your other names I basically never heard of, if they would be stars, I should have, right?


loll, no - that is not how it works

and indy star is somebody making waves on the independent scene

danhausen was an indie star.

as was brody king. But i would not expect everybody to know them

and what about wrestlers in japan but not born there like guilia - should they be ignored too?


----------



## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> loll, no - that is not how it works
> 
> and indy star is somebody making waves on the independent scene
> 
> ...


Thats what I was asking for and you gave 50% japanese wrestlers as answer, so thats not right.

And to say what means „indy star“. Take Joe, take Riddle, take Owens, Zyan. Guys who people were talking about (besides Joe) without having a major contract. You just name people with threads at reddit or whatever social plattform for nerds. Thats like naming Butcher and Blade „indy stars“ and we all saw what a premier reaction these guys got (even with the smarky AEW audience) or the first two Dark Order goons.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

fabi1982 said:


> Thats what I was asking for and you gave 50% japanese wrestlers as answer, so thats not right.
> 
> And to say what means „indy star“. Take Joe, take Riddle, take Owens, Zyan. Guys who people were talking about (besides Joe) without having a major contract. You just name people with threads at reddit or whatever social plattform for nerds. Thats like naming Butcher and Blade „indy stars“ and we all saw what a premier reaction these guys got (even with the smarky AEW audience) or the first two Dark Order goons.


why is it not right?

the people i mentioned originally are actual stars

ospreay, white, okada, shingo, naito, guilia

these are stars and ultimately the type of people the thread is about 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Ultimo Duggan (Nov 19, 2021)

fabi1982 said:


> Because nee japan stars are not born to love wwe but love njpw. And all of your other names I basically never heard of, if they would be stars, I should have, right?


Not on this forum. Most seem pretty proud that they don’t know any

Remember that as AEW was starting WWE signed nearly EVERYONE of worth on the indies just so AEW wouldn’t have a shot at them. WWE were overpaying big time for wrestlers not to go to their new competition. If you were offered a ridiculously inflated salary just for a chance at getting to televised wrestling there is only a very short list of folks who wouldn’t take that gamble. Then WWE released over a hundred wrestlers that they signed to those ridiculously inflated contracts. Less than a year into AEW a significant number of those signees were all looking for work elsewhere.

WWE is not an attractive place to work. Only the naive dreamers will go there. They needed to drastically overpay for wrestlers to stay or sign there three years ago. That was BEFORE all those cuts and garbage bag releases WWE made from 2020 and later.

Rok-C signing with WWE makes sense. She is so young that the realities of the business haven’t quite sunk in yet. Someone else with a few more years experience may not want to take that risk of signing a WWE or NXT contract.

Dreamers are allowed to dream. They just might get released right after WWE coerced them to move to Florida or Connecticut. Dreamers can always dream big. They should probably rent and not bother buying until their second or third contract has been paid in full.


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## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> why is it not right?
> 
> the people i mentioned originally are actual stars
> 
> ...


If you would go by that rule, none of these stars are „indy stars“ because they work in televised stardom and njpw. They all have contracts with these companies. So they cant just „go“ do WWE or AEW.

But then again I said outside of Japan, not that this has anything to do with this thread, I just wanted you to give me „star“ names outside of people working/born in Japan. You know, real independent workers.


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## JeSeGaN (Jun 5, 2018)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> these are stars and ultimately the type of people the thread is about


Bro, they're not 'stars', at least not in the rest of the world.

Like fabi said, they got zero reaction from a crowd full of smarks, so that's saying something.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

fabi1982 said:


> If you would go by that rule, *none of these stars are „indy stars“ *because they work in televised stardom and njpw. They all have contracts with these companies. So they cant just „go“ do WWE or AEW.
> 
> But then again I said outside of Japan, not that this has anything to do with this thread, I just wanted you to give me „star“ names outside of people working/born in Japan. You know, real independent workers.





JeSeGaN said:


> Bro, they're not 'stars', at least not in the rest of the world.
> 
> Like fabi said, they got zero reaction from a crowd full of smarks, so that's saying something.


but Fabi just said they are stars

he wants other names, not these ones

@fabi1982 - before aew, anybody not in wwe would be talked about as an indie star, even if they worked for impact or njpw

cause the Fed was ‘the big leagues’

so that is how i’m looking at it for this thread

it says a lot that you guys are debating ‘what is indy’ and ‘what is star’ and not the original question of the thread xD


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## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> but Fabi just said they are stars
> 
> he wants other names, not these ones
> 
> ...


Okada or Naito were never indy stars, they were stars from NJPW. The Bucks were indy stars because they would wreste anywhere were they get paid. How many matches outside NJPW events do Okada or Naito have over the last 5 years? 

And without understanding your question no one can give you an answer. You said indy stars and mentioned Ospreay and White, which is fine. Then you start to name Japanese stars, which dont fall under the category „indy“, so you ruin your own question and thats on no one else than yourself.


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## JeSeGaN (Jun 5, 2018)

fabi1982 said:


> How many matches outside NJPW events do Okada or Naito have over the last 5 years?


Wasn't Okada Suicide in TNA ages ago?

Can't remember when exactly that was, though.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

fabi1982 said:


> Okada or Naito were never indy stars, they were stars from NJPW. The Bucks were indy stars because they would wreste anywhere were they get paid. How many matches outside NJPW events do Okada or Naito have over the last 5 years?
> 
> And without understanding your question no one can give you an answer. You said indy stars and mentioned Ospreay and White, which is fine. Then you start to name Japanese stars, which dont fall under the category „indy“, so you ruin your own question and thats on no one else than yourself.


take it then as ‘any star not in wwe or aew’ if you want

the point is not ‘what is a star’ or ‘where they work’

the point is, these people would normally aim for wwe as their last step. what does wwe have to attract them over AEW currently

i thought it was quite clear


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## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> take it then as ‘any star not in wwe or aew’ if you want
> 
> the point is not ‘what is a star’ or ‘where they work’
> 
> ...


Like I said, anyone in NJPW is not independent, or indy, so yeah you should have asked a different question. And I dont think an Okada or Naito would aim for anything different than NJPW. Anyways, this thread was derailed enough by me, I keep quiet now and try to „read“ more into your questions next time


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## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

JeSeGaN said:


> Wasn't Okada Suicide in TNA ages ago?
> 
> Can't remember when exactly that was, though.


Yeah he was, because of a business relationship between NJPW and TNA, thats not what I would call an indy booking


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Realistically though, why would WWE sign hot indie guys? They have college athletes and MMA converts they can mold into the type of stars they want.


Those are called “sports entertainers”.

Glad you’re realizing the difference, bud!


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

fabi1982 said:


> Like I said, anyone in NJPW is not independent, or indy, so yeah you should have asked a different question. And I dont think an Okada or Naito would aim for anything different than NJPW. Anyways, this thread was derailed enough by me, I keep quiet now and try to „read“ more into your questions next time


lol, ‘indy’ is not the point of the thread as mentioned - you call it one thing, i call it another - in the end, it does not matter to the question

maybe address the original question?

how can WWE attract stars they have not signed over AEW with their current landscape?


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## GarpTheFist (8 mo ago)

This thread got the exact opposite result of what op hoped for 😂


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

GarpTheFist said:


> This thread got the exact opposite result of what op hoped for 😂


did it?


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## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol, ‘indy’ is not the point of the thread as mentioned - you call it one thing, i call it another - in the end, it does not matter to the question
> 
> maybe address the original question?
> 
> how can WWE attract stars they have not signed over AEW with their current landscape?


You got the answer in the first response from @Chelsea. And like I said in my first post, if you dont make it in WWE you can always go to AEW.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

fabi1982 said:


> You got the answer in the first response from @Chelsea. And like I said in my first post, if you dont make it in WWE you can always go to AEW.


not really - her answer was about the ‘top of the mountain’ and the wwe championship

neither are as big a draw imo anymore, and stars aren’t marks

added, you are not very likely to get an extended run at the top anyway, cause there will always be a homegrown star like roman, brock, orton, cena or a returning legend

so, at the very least, the height an outside star can hope for is main eventing every now and again between WM, Summerslam and Royal Rumble - but ultimately just keeping the seat warm for ‘the guy’ or whichever incoming celeb - and only after spending 2 years in nXT to even start with

don’t know about you, but that does not sound too enticing


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## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> not really - her answer was about the ‘top of the mountain’ and the wwe championship
> 
> neither are as big a draw imo anymore, and stars aren’t marks
> 
> ...


So basically you had your answer made up already before starting the thread and now everyone giving you their thoughts just get your „na thats not correct“? Like :eyerolling every comment. You are better than that.

Next time just start the thread and say „I think no one will sign with WWE over AEW anymore“. Because thats what is coming out of this thread.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

fabi1982 said:


> So basically you had your answer made up already before starting the thread and now everyone giving you their thoughts just get your „na thats not correct“? Like :eyerolling every comment. You are better than that.
> 
> Next time just start the thread and say „I think no one will sign with WWE over AEW anymore“. Because thats what is coming out of this thread.


no, i’ve not eyerolled one comment

i even gave some reasons why someone would choose wwe.

in fact, i can think of a few more if its a women talent

why is everybody so tribal about this - can’t we just have an honest conversation? Isn’t it clear the balance has shifted for men’s and tag teams at least?

like, i understand the allure of the brand and working wrestlemania. But geez, wwe has a lot of things working against them to attract A-level talent in the future. A lot

am i the only one seeing it? More important, am i the only one understanding why it is a problem for wrestling’s future? You need a competitive market for growth

my word


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## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> no, i’ve not eyerolled one comment
> 
> i even gave some reasons why someone would choose wwe.
> 
> ...


You dont eyeroll, but it is similar to what dc is doing, you dismiss every comment which was „because its the biggest company and wrestlemania“, because YOU think otherwise. People want to have a conversation but just look at your responses over the last couple of sites with me, even ignoring my questions.

If you think that no indy star will sign with WWE then fine, but let other poeple have other opinions, right?

And why do they only add women? Maybe because they cant homegrow women properly? I honestly think if they would go after stars, they would get them, but especially in the mens departement they want to grow their eyes own new generation in NXT.

But I guess the only proper answer here is „yeah you are right“?!


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

fabi1982 said:


> You dont eyeroll, but it is similar to what dc is doing, you dismiss every comment which was „because its the biggest company and wrestlemania“, because YOU think otherwise. People want to have a conversation but just look at your responses over the last couple of sites with me, even ignoring my questions.
> 
> If you think that no indy star will sign with WWE then fine, but let other poeple have other opinions, right?
> 
> ...


deflection.

make the argument why you think wwe signs the next couple a-list stars and not aew


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## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

Interestingly, one of NXT 2.0's standout talents, who is rumoured to be heading for a main brand call up, wanted in AEW before he went to WWE tryouts. Cody tweeted something to him back then, but AEW never followed up, which I thought was dumb as he's more badass looking than his older brothers Jimmy and Jey.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1341658438196101120
The best in-ring Samoan, Jacob Fatu (cousin of Roman and the Usos), is stiill unsigned to a major company for some reason...


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## Prized Fighter (Aug 31, 2016)

3venflow said:


> Interestingly, one of NXT 2.0's standout talents, who is rumoured to be heading for a main brand call up, wanted in AEW before he went to WWE tryouts. Cody tweeted something to him back then, but AEW never followed up, which I thought was dumb as he's more badass looking than his older brothers Jimmy and Jey.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1341658438196101120
> The best in-ring Samoan, Jacob Fatu (cousin of Roman and the Usos), is still unsigned to a major company for some reason...


Jacob Fatu and Hammerstone having there prime years in MLW and not on national television just feels so wrong. Far be it for me to judge somebody else's career choices, but they are TV ready talents and should be at the top of any company.

Edit: MLW Fusion is on BeIN sports, but that is not that is small audience.


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## booyakas (Jun 6, 2017)

ste1592 said:


> - Backstage : judging from most reports, AEW.


i dont understand the backstage complaints. its their job, not a vacation.
and the backstage stuff is not nearly as it was during the attitude era and earlier. the shark era is over.



ste1592 said:


> - Safety and health: I know I'm going to get a lot of shit for this, but AEW has people working dangerous matches what, once a month? Honestly, considering the grand scheme of things, I think it's safer to work a street fight match once a month than a regular match 4 times a week.


there are safe ways to do everything. in the old days top guys sometimes did 2-3 matchs a day 6 days a week without any injury. they even used real baseball bats and real hard wooden chairs. the question is, does the wrestler know HOW to do it ? alot of the AEW wrestlers proved they dont. chris jericho, john moxly and others who came from the wwe know, but the young guys dont.

ric flair have a match at the age of 73 and he wrestled ALOT all over the world, but never did attitude era shit. he worked safe !


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## booyakas (Jun 6, 2017)

3venflow said:


> Interestingly, one of NXT 2.0's standout talents, who is rumoured to be heading for a main brand call up, wanted in AEW before he went to WWE tryouts. Cody tweeted something to him back then, but AEW never followed up, which I thought was dumb as he's more badass looking than his older brothers Jimmy and Jey.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1341658438196101120
> The best in-ring Samoan, Jacob Fatu (cousin of Roman and the Usos), is stiill unsigned to a major company for some reason...


how long it took for aj styles to get an offer from njpw ?

there are alot of good wrestlers in the world and not all get signed.

and when it comes to wrestling families, vince used to sign wrestling families all the time, but as he is losing his power, its less likely the last name will matter at all. guys like nick khan dont care about wrestling families or wrestling respect.


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## ste1592 (Dec 20, 2014)

booyakas said:


> i dont understand the backstage complaints. its their job, not a vacation.
> and the backstage stuff is not nearly as it was during the attitude era and earlier. the shark era is over.


Well, the fact that back in the days was worse doesn't mean nowadays everything is perfect. 

Work environments aren't supposed to take the will to live out of people, you know. It's not about being a vacation or not, it's that having to deal with shitty bosses and asshole colleagues will make people less happy, and overall less productive. The backstage environment would play a big part in my choice if I was a wrestler. Maybe not as big as money, but surely it's one of the things I would consider, hence why I put it in my list.



booyakas said:


> there are safe ways to do everything. in the old days top guys sometimes did 2-3 matchs a day 6 days a week without any injury. they even used real baseball bats and real hard wooden chairs. the question is, does the wrestler know HOW to do it ? alot of the AEW wrestlers proved they dont. chris jericho, john moxly and others who came from the wwe know, but the young guys dont.
> 
> ric flair have a match at the age of 73 and he wrestled ALOT all over the world, but never did attitude era shit. he worked safe !


Well yeah, of course. But phisical strain is phisical strain, you can't expect to work multiple matches every night and always be in perfect shape; on the other hand, if you know how to wrestle safe even in dangerous situations, you might have a longer career overall.


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## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

fabi1982 said:


> So basically you had your answer made up already before starting the thread



You didn't get that from the beginning? LOL


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## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

ste1592 said:


> - Safety and health: I know I'm going to get a lot of shit for this, but AEW has people working dangerous matches what, once a month? Honestly, considering the grand scheme of things, I think it's safer to work a street fight match once a month than a regular match 4 times a week.



Based on what we've seen this year, you are more likely to get injured working for AEW than for WWE, despite the fact you work more dates for WWE [Which doesn't make much sense unless it has to do with the booking]. Unless we are just to believe this major epidemic of AEW injuries are just a mishmash of absurd coincidences that all happened in a short time period.


You could even argue that working several times a week [Safely of course] helps prevent injury. That is actually a thing in professional sports, since if you rest too long in between games/practices, your body becomes more susceptible to injury. That doesn't excuse the absurd work schedule WWF put their employees through in the 80s but modern day WWE isn't putting their talent on the road 300+ days a year anymore. 


As far as safety goes, WWE is the company that has gotten tons of shit over the last decade for often being too safe. When blood occurs in matches, they've even stopped them in order to close the wound up. Even the Hell in a Cell matches are very tame nowadays.


AEW allowed Matt Hardy to continue after he fell from like 10-12 feet onto cement with his head hitting. If he hadn't show any sign of obvious injury, I could see letting it go to finish the match but he was obviously completely fucked up. Subsequently, Jeff Hardy was doing swantons onto the stairs at the same time that he could barely walk or climb up the ropes. They allowed a match to continue around Alex Reynolds for several minutes while he was obviously incapacitated. It made the company look so bad, they started enforcing copyright strikes against any Youtube or Twitter account that posted the incident [Hell, I'm having trouble finding the video as we speak].

AEW is hardly shown itself to be a paradise for employee safety in its short history.


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## booyakas (Jun 6, 2017)

ste1592 said:


> Well, the fact that back in the days was worse doesn't mean nowadays everything is perfect.
> 
> Work environments aren't supposed to take the will to live out of people, you know. It's not about being a vacation or not, it's that having to deal with shitty bosses and asshole colleagues will make people less happy, and overall less productive. The backstage environment would play a big part in my choice if I was a wrestler. Maybe not as big as money, but surely it's one of the things I would consider, hence why I put it in my list.


do you know who cry about backstage and that they dont get stuff to do ? those who are released because they arent over. 
and what about guys like tyler breeze ? he was low on the card but there were never reports of problems. 
maybe these people just arent good with making friends ?

every male champion in wwe since 2017 royal rumble (john cena) wasnt a politician, with the exception of brock lesnar. but in all fairness, its almost impossible to beat that guy.

all that "backstage politics" era is gone. the last backstage politician was john cena. all we have right now is bad old-new memories and this myth will be forgotten in 5-10 years.



ste1592 said:


> Well yeah, of course. But phisical strain is phisical strain, you can't expect to work multiple matches every night and always be in perfect shape; on the other hand, if you know how to wrestle safe even in dangerous situations, you might have a longer career overall.


their training regime is built around stamina. the strain you speak of mostly comes from the bumps. overtime the damage slowly builds-up. you make it worse when you take unsafe bumps too many times.
but that is the life of a wrestler and a major part of the proffesion. even AEW wrestlers also wrestle indy matches when they dont get a TV match.

and they get compensated for it.


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## ste1592 (Dec 20, 2014)

booyakas said:


> do you know who cry about backstage and that they dont get stuff to do ? those who are released because they arent over.
> and what about guys like tyler breeze ? he was low on the card but there were never reports of problems.
> maybe these people just arent good with making friends ?
> 
> ...


Dude, I'm not talking about backstage politics. I'm talking about bosses, trainers, and other figures backstage being unsufferable assholes; I'm talking about wrestlers having their ideas shut down all the time.

I'm not talking about Hogan politicking, I'm talking about an environment where you're afraid of speaking up because when you do, you get punished.


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## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

booyakas said:


> do you know who cry about backstage and that they dont get stuff to do ? those who are released because they arent over.
> and what about guys like tyler breeze ? he was low on the card but there were never reports of problems.
> maybe these people just arent good with making friends ?
> 
> ...




Even Cena wasn't a great politician. Supposedly, he did kinda bury the Nexus [Which he later admitted he regretted doing] but, in the same breath, apparently constantly pushed for changing his character up and even turning heel and Vince shot it down because the company was making too much money with the kids. Cena probably had his moments of politicking [As nearly all big time wrestlers in the last 40 years did] but he's pretty down in the list of people that were probably doing it all the time or was overly good at it.


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## booyakas (Jun 6, 2017)

Hotdiggity11 said:


> They allowed a match to continue around Alex Reynolds for several minutes while he was obviously incapacitated.


they dont need to stop the match. they need competent referees, wrestlers and promoter who can see when someone is out and take him outside while the camera looking away. or a good wrestler should know how to take they guy quitely outside without anyone noticing as if its just another spot.
there are other ways to continue the match without further injuries when someone gets hurt. you just need people in the ring who can actually do it.


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## booyakas (Jun 6, 2017)

ste1592 said:


> Dude, I'm not talking about backstage politics. I'm talking about bosses, trainers, and other figures backstage being unsufferable assholes; I'm talking about wrestlers having their ideas shut down all the time.
> 
> I'm not talking about Hogan politicking, I'm talking about an environment where you're afraid of speaking up because when you do, you get punished.


wwe is a corporation. this is how corporations work.


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## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

booyakas said:


> they dont need to stop the match. they need competent referees, wrestlers and promoter who can see when someone is out and take him outside while the camera looking away. or a good wrestler should know how to take they guy quitely outside without anyone noticing as if its just another spot.
> there are other ways to continue the match without further injuries when someone gets hurt. you just need people in the ring who can actually do it.



Yeah, that's why I said "allowed a match to continue around Alex Reynolds." Reminds me of the Paul Orndorff incident in WCW when he hurt himself after giving someone a piledriver. You either stop the match or you find a way to evacuate the talent out of the ring. The worst personal option is to just allow him to lay there while other men are bouncing around all over the ring. Here, they got the match over with.


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## ste1592 (Dec 20, 2014)

booyakas said:


> wwe is a corporation. this is how corporations work.


That's part of the problem dude. That's why people quit corporations all the time. 

But that's beside the point. As far as we know, AEW doesn't behave the same way, so they get a +1 for that, in my book.


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## TeamFlareZakk (Jul 15, 2020)

AEW is now the place to be because of WWE's decline, stupid Vince McMahon and his suck ups are running the WWE into the ground with their foolishness.

Sure Tony Khan comes up with some stupid ideas but they arent nearly as stupid as the garbage Vince comes up with and AEW is prospering pretty good as the now number 1 wrestling promotion in the world, its the place every wrestler wants to get to as of now.


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## Tobiyama (Dec 19, 2020)

An indy worker should sign with WWE. Even if it doesn't work out, they can go to AEW later and will be a hotter commodity.

Every female worker except for Baker and Rosa should want to go to WWE. It isn't even close for female talent.


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## TeamFlareZakk (Jul 15, 2020)

Tobiyama said:


> An indy worker should sign with WWE. Even if it doesn't work out, they can go to AEW later and will be a hotter commodity.
> 
> Every female worker except for Baker and Rosa should want to go to WWE. It isn't even close for female talent.


Going to WWE just to have to do what stupid Vince wants to do just to promote stupid old washed up WrestleMania shit or just to get buried by either old washed up farts or lesser talent they should be beating is a waste of time for any talent, therefore they want to go to AEW where they wouldnt have to deal with any of that bullshit!


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## booyakas (Jun 6, 2017)

TeamFlareZakk said:


> Going to WWE just to have to do what stupid Vince wants to do just to promote stupid old washed up WrestleMania shit or just to get buried by either old washed up farts or lesser talent they should be beating is a waste of time for any talent, therefore they want to go to AEW where they wouldnt have to deal with any of that bullshit!


what are you talking about ? this is not like it at all.
give me 1 example from the last few years.
all of the older talents are on their retirement run. all of them are doing tag teams or short easy matches to elevate new or young guys. mainly because they know older wrestlers get injured easier.
on the last wrestlemania aj styles lost because of interruption from damian priest. and that lead to faction lead by old top guy and the members are younger talents.


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## booyakas (Jun 6, 2017)

ste1592 said:


> That's part of the problem dude. That's why people quit corporations all the time.
> 
> But that's beside the point. As far as we know, AEW doesn't behave the same way, so they get a +1 for that, in my book.


and they are compensated for it.

you can choose an easier work place and make less money OR choose a highly professional work place (wwe) with higher salary and possible mainstream exposure which is irreplaceable.
would sasha banks do The Mandalorian if she worked for AEW ?

i agree that working for a corporation is hell, but there are benifits.


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## DZ Crew (Sep 26, 2016)

TeamFlareZakk said:


> Going to WWE just to have to do what stupid Vince wants to do just to promote stupid old washed up WrestleMania shit or just to get buried by either old washed up farts or lesser talent they should be beating is a waste of time for any talent, therefore they want to go to AEW where they wouldnt have to deal with any of that bullshit!


Like it or not there are still more people in attendance and watching WM than AEW could ever dream of. There's a reason why most guys and gals coming into the business have a dream of competing at WM. And the idea that it's only wwe who has old timers steal shine from newer talents is laughable. Have you met Chris Jericho?


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## ste1592 (Dec 20, 2014)

booyakas said:


> and they are compensated for it.
> 
> you can choose an easier work place and make less money OR choose a highly professional work place (wwe) with higher salary and possible mainstream exposure which is irreplaceable.
> would sasha banks do The Mandalorian if she worked for AEW ?
> ...


Well yeah, but some people would rather choose a more chilled workplace to work at.


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## booyakas (Jun 6, 2017)

ste1592 said:


> Well yeah, but some people would rather choose a more chilled workplace to work at.


these people need to wake up and realize life isnt chill and easy. if you want to get somewhere in life, you have to work for it.

and if you want to get to the top of pro wrestling, you need to work for the wwe, and thats a fact.


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## ste1592 (Dec 20, 2014)

booyakas said:


> these people need to wake up and realize life isnt chill and easy. if you want to get somewhere in life, you have to work for it.
> 
> and if you want to get to the top of pro wrestling, you need to work for the wwe, and thats a fact.


That's completely unrelated to the topic at hand though. And I have mentioned in my OP that WWE has a bigger platform, so I don't really see what's the point of saying twice.

Once again, to some people working in a relatively stress-free environment is better than feel harassed and bothered all the time they are at work. They don't have to realize shit, they can choose if they want to be more successful and stressed all the time, or less successful but also more relaxed. I'm pretty sure a lot of them are grateful they can make that kind of choice.


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## g3rmany.turtle (6 mo ago)

A chance at WM, or even RR would be huge for anyone's career. It's about exposure. When you can say you were a part of WM, or several WM's then you have given yourself a raise on the independent scene should you ever lose the WWE job. Wrestle Mania I would think is still a dream of a pro wrestler, right?


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