# Omega Constantly Losing



## RelivingTheShadow (Apr 25, 2013)

Kind of disappointing by Kenny Omega losing to PAC tonight, at the very least, it looks like PAC will be sticking around for a feud with Hangman, but man, why is Hangman getting the position that Omega probably should be in?

I'm going to let it play out, but it's a little worrisome to me that Omega is effectively the #3 face in the company right now, maybe even #4 if you count Moxley as a face.

A lot of his luster from 2017/2018 has faded, and even though the match with PAC was fantastic, he needs to get some wins. Hopefully he goes on a big run on TV, I don't think it even makes sense to do Omega/Moxley right now, because that's a match Moxley should definitely win, but Omega CAN'T lose AGAIN.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

There's this mentality that when you have someone sub, the sub goes over. I can see it being an automatic decision. When they went with Jericho over Omega it was pretty obvious that they are not building around Omega, for whatever reason. It could be that he doesn't want to be. It could be because he really wants to get back with New Japan. It could be that they did market research and worked out that his personality puts people off. Maybe it's just old fashioned bad booking?


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## TheLooseCanon (Jun 18, 2013)

I think it's perfect booking for Omega.

And yes I count Moxley as a face. He is their most known guy in his prime. He's gonna have to be their most protected. If he isn't, then the Elite guys are marks for themselves.

Now back to Omega. Having him lose all the time, is giving him an underdog Daniel Bryan look to new fans. They are doing a slow build to have him explode as a top babyface later. It's like Omega is being reborn.

If they booked Omega to new audiences as the top guy right out of the gate, it would look like a Roman Reigns situation. Not everyone knows him, so you have to introduce him first.

It's why Jericho is champ, and looking like Cody is his first challenger. Names.

AEW is new. So treat everyone like they are new. U.S. audiences know Jericho, Ambrose, and Cody somewhat. You can't go Goldberg with Omega right now.


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## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

Redemption angle. Kenny can't cut in America and his head was on Moxley. Patience.


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## RelivingTheShadow (Apr 25, 2013)

TheLooseCanon said:


> I think it's perfect booking for Omega.
> 
> And yes I count Moxley as a face. He is their most known guy in his prime. He's gonna have to be their most protected. If he isn't, then the Elite guys are marks for themselves.
> 
> ...


Could understand that, I just think doing Omega/Moxley right now doesn't have a ton of luster behind it. Moxley going over at this show would've been perfect, and Omega being rebuilt on TV would be good, but now he has to go through ANOTHER loss to Moxley, and then be rebuilt. 6 months of losing all the big matches is eh.


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## TheLooseCanon (Jun 18, 2013)

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Could understand that, I just think doing Omega/Moxley right now doesn't have a ton of luster behind it. Moxley going over at this show would've been perfect, and Omega being rebuilt on TV would be good, but now he has to go through ANOTHER loss to Moxley, and then be rebuilt. 6 months of losing all the big matches is eh.


Oh I agree. I think they should hold off on Mox/Omega right now.

Mox needs to be the most protected guy they got right now, so he can't just take a loss. 

And Omega needs something to win.

But, if they want to make this a storyline, where Omega just 'doesn't have it anymore', then Moxley 'finishing him' could work.

Then Omega comes back stronger, and with new fan support in his rise to the championship.

I think that is what they have been doing. The goal is Omega to be a big star. But he can't act like one to new fans right out the gate or it comes off as forced.

In the meantime, roll with Jericho and Moxley as top heel and babyface, while they feud with other guys you want to grow (Page, MJF, etc).


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## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

I'm a big Kenny fan obviously, and I like the way this is going. He can't just transplant his NJPW story here and be top guy. He needs a good long build, he needs a story arc that builds him from an underdog again, which is what he's best at doing anyway.

Trust me, I was at the show. Kenny isn't fully over in America yet. This booking is the best thing for him, and I'm sure he knows it too.

I'm looking forward to watching him rise again far more than I'd want to see him just coming in as the top guy. This is going to force his character to evolve.


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## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

Omega 1-2 let's not over react here. Omega is one of the faces of AEW as a VP. He can lose big matches and still have credibility. Omega always going to have a big match every ppv. So if he loses some matches early on in AEW to establish some guys. Well it's not a big deal.


People gotta look at it this way. When indie guys comes to WWE, you want Cena to establish a Kevin Owens or AJ Styles. Well it's same thing in AEW. You gotta beat Omega to prove you belong in AEW. Since AEW feels they are the elite and best of the best. I'm sure once newish of the company wheres off and AEW establishes roles for the wrestlers. Well Omega going to be willing a lot and people are gonna complaining about him winning too much.


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## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

TheLooseCanon said:


> I think it's perfect booking for Omega.
> 
> And yes I count Moxley as a face. He is their most known guy in his prime. He's gonna have to be their most protected. If he isn't, then the Elite guys are marks for themselves.
> 
> ...


Exactly, they are going to build to Omega vs Jericho II wiht Omega getting the big win.

Omega is on a losing streak, so he can come back against all odds. Dont be surprised if he loses to Moxley too before he starts his win streak.


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## TheLooseCanon (Jun 18, 2013)

Tilon said:


> I'm a big Kenny fan obviously, and I like the way this is going. He can't just transplant his NJPW story here and be top guy. He needs a good long build, he needs a story arc that builds him from an underdog again, which is what he's best at doing anyway.
> 
> Trust me, I was at the show. Kenny isn't fully over in America yet. This booking is the best thing for him, and I'm sure he knows it too.
> 
> I'm looking forward to watching him rise again far more than I'd want to see him just coming in as the top guy. This is going to force his character to evolve.


You get it.

It's why I was never in on the Adam Page push. He was a lamb the other Elite guys threw out first to take the L. They don't want Cody losing first, and Omega is getting a rebuild for a new audience.

Page was the choice to lose to Jericho. Be glad that wasn't Omega OP, because Omega losing is a long build. Page lost just to lose.


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## McGee (Jul 5, 2016)

I never saw Omega in Japan but heard all the hype. My only exposure to him that I can recall is losing to Jericho and losing to Pac. Doesn't give him much credibility in my eyes.


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## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

TheLooseCanon said:


> You get it.
> 
> It's why I was never in on the Adam Page push. He was a lamb the other Elite guys threw out first to take the L. They don't want Cody losing first, and Omega is getting a rebuild for a new audience.
> 
> Page was the choice to lose to Jericho. Be glad that wasn't Omega OP, because Omega losing is a long build. Page lost just to lose.


IMO Codey should have lost tonight via MJF screwiing him over. MJF could have said he was tired of being in Codeys shadow and how Codey didnt even put him on the PPV. A Codey vs MJF feud could be amazing.

Also giving Spears a win would have been good. Now he is still just a geek.


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## TheLooseCanon (Jun 18, 2013)

birthday_massacre said:


> IMO Codey should have lost tonight via MJF screwiing him over. MJF could have said he was tired of being in Codeys shadow and how Codey didnt even put him on the PPV. A Codey vs MJF feud could be amazing.


I agree. I'd been fine with that. I just meant they didn't want Cody losing to Jericho first.

Page was there and pushed just to be the first fall guy for Jericho. Cody is going to be his first feud most likely. And Omega is long term build to get him over to a new audience. The goal is for Omega to be super over.

Page was in the main event tonight because they needed a fall guy. That is the worst position compared to Omega's losing streak (storyline).

I was just comparing for people to understand Omega is in a great position. Page will fall back to midcard. Omega is trying to get sympathy for the crowd to invest.


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## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

Having MJF turn on Cody before TV is a total waste. That's something you want to save and build up to.

Some of you guys would book your whole load within 2 shows. 

And McGee, if winning and losing is how you measure a wrestler, I'm afraid I have some bad news for you: it's a work.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

birthday_massacre said:


> IMO Codey should have lost tonight via MJF screwiing him over. MJF could have said he was tired of being in Codeys shadow and how Codey didnt even put him on the PPV. A Codey vs MJF feud could be amazing.
> 
> Also giving Spears a win would have been good. Now he is still just a geek.


The MJF turn is a huge angle and it'll pay off down the line. Spears is fine losing. Their master plan was subverted. Cody has been the best thing in AEW, so him winning was fine. Spears can get his heat back by hitting someone else with a steel chair. It's fine. It wasn't make it or break it for Spears.

Omega could have been pushed better out the gate. I'm not the dude's biggest fan, but you can tell the story of him being an elite performer and that means he should win his matches. I mean, it's fine him losing too. There are a few ways to skin that cat.


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## Wrestlefire (Mar 31, 2016)

I think people would bitch too much if EVP Kenny won all his matches, even if he were clearly qualified to do so.

He's building the roster by putting PAC over.


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## McGee (Jul 5, 2016)

Tilon said:


> And McGee, if winning and losing is how you measure a wrestler, I'm afraid I have some bad news for you: it's a work.


Well wasn't the premise of the company from the start that wins and losses matter? Since the start of the company Kenny has been a Loser.


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

I don't mind it.

He was never beating Moxley if the match had happened last night and I called PAC winning as soon as it was announced - PAC is a huge talent for them and they weren't going to have him lose in his first match. Omega is a bigger star than PAC and can do with a losing streak if it means a change in character and more ruthless streak to him to go and prove it.

All this does is add more fuel to the fire for Moxley/Omega - we get Moxley telling Omega that he was right about him, that he wasn't just going to waltz in here and be the star he thinks he is. Whereas Moxley KNOWS that he is a star. Omega gets more and more desperate, probably loses to Moxley if they DO meet at the next PPV - I would personally keep them apart from an actual match until Moxley is the champion and Omega has been rebuilt back up as the next viable contender.


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## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

McGee said:


> Well wasn't the premise of the company from the start that wins and losses matter? Since the start of the company Kenny has been a Loser.


Yeah, he's losing now. This creates an opportunity for him to start a new story arc built around his comeback rather than running on the fumes of his NJPW story. This is a good thing.

Wins and losses matter, but in the end they are all just building blocks, part of what is used to construct a story.

I'm surprised you don't seem to understand that.


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## Wrestlefire (Mar 31, 2016)

McGee said:


> Well wasn't the premise of the company from the start that wins and losses matter? Since the start of the company Kenny has been a Loser.


Probably for the best, if you think about it.

How many people do you think would turn away from AEW if they knew it was only one massive circle-jerk for The Elite? Serious question.


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## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

Tilon said:


> Having MJF turn on Cody before TV is a total waste. That's something you want to save and build up to.
> 
> Some of you guys would book your whole load within 2 shows.
> 
> And McGee, if winning and losing is how you measure a wrestler, I'm afraid I have some bad news for you: it's a work.


I agree but I think they have to be very careful:

I just watched Cody do a 2-minute postmatch interview where he said ‘Wins matter’ like three times. It’s part of the AEW philosophy. It’s part of their DNA. It’s what makes them ‘the alternative.’

So I think it could be dangerous to have Omega keep losing AND be in big matches every PPV ... at some point the converted fans and some of the hardcore AEW fans are going to point to the illogic of that — if you keep losing and wins matter, you can’t just hold an uppercard position over other guys who actually win.

When the fan base gets behind some lesser-known mid-carder and that guy ends up being skipped over for PPV spots or can’t seem to move up the card when he’s, say, 4-2 and Omega is 2-4 and in one of the top spots every time, some fans may have an issue with that.

So I’d have Omega keep slipping down the card. Have Ambrose cut a promo on ‘so you give me crap when I missed a show being injured and you lose ... again? Explain to me why I should even waste my breath on you’ — and quickly bypass him for another feud. Have Kenny fall to where if he’s on PPV it’s in the curtain-jerk opener against lesser guys (if he keeps losing as part of the story) ... and THEN you can begin his rise with a winning streak.

But you can’t go ‘wins matter’ and ‘this guy keeps losing but hey he’s Kenny Omega so of course he’s going to be in a prime spot even though other guys have wins ... but that doesn’t really matter.’ Don’t give him the star treatment until he gets over and starts winning like a star.

Just my 2 cents.


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## Buffy The Vampire Slayer (May 31, 2011)

Kenny Omega is getting a redemption storyline due to his lost from Jericho and now PAC. It's really perfect for him. He will struggle in his journey at this stage of the game but at the end, he will be the one to dethrone Chris Jericho and become the second ever AEW Champion.


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

It's basically a story of Japanese wrestling god failing to adapt to the American style. 

It makes sense - he's going to have to adapt, perhaps change his game up, be a bit smarter. His time will come, I am glad they're going down this route. Could have quite easily just built him as THE star and had him won the world title last night like it was nothing but no, they've gone down a different route and it's a great idea.


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## Hephaesteus (Aug 20, 2018)

Wasn't the complaint last ppv that the big names weren't eating Ls? Now that they're eating Ls theres complaints?


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## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

Omega's match was the second one of the night. That alone shocked some people in the crowd where I was.

It's already working. He has no reason to change without a catalyst for it. It's being built up slowly but surely


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## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

TheLooseCanon said:


> I think it's perfect booking for Omega.
> 
> And yes I count Moxley as a face. He is their most known guy in his prime. He's gonna have to be their most protected. If he isn't, then the Elite guys are marks for themselves.
> 
> ...


Daniel Bryan, fans truly believed wwe and Vince/HHH were holding him down though. Bryan was also unique then, a short, non muscled, average looking guy on a roster filled with tall,good looking muscled guys in top spots like Cena, Orton, del Rio, HHH. That was pure lightning in a bottle.. attempting to recreate that storyline where art was imitating life in the fans eyes would be impossible and not be anywhere near as effective.

Also people know who Kenny is, at least audience that is initially tuning into AEW. He is biggest star outside WWE since closure of wcw. He was bigger star in Japan than styles was when he signed with WWE in January 2016. Many were saying not long ago that wwe should build around him and make Omega FOTC.


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## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

validreasoning said:


> Also people know who Kenny is. He is biggest star outside WWE since closure of wcw. He was bigger star in Japan than styles was when he signed with WWE in January 2016. Many were saying not long ago that wwe should build around him and make Omega FOTC.


Not to be a broken record, but I was there. When Kenny lifted PAC on his shoulders for the last OWA attempt, it got almost no reaction from the crowd. It was painful for me to witness.

He NEEDS a new arc. It's not even an option. People have to want, really want to see him win.

When all this started, the people who knew him simply expected him to win, and those who didn't know him didn't care. This is a terrible position plot wise for a wrestler. It's boring.

You've got to get his fans worried about him. You've got to get people who don't know him invested.


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## A PG Attitude (Nov 5, 2012)

If he was winning every match, as VP people would start calling him Triple H. I'm sure Cody and the Bucks are well aware how fickle audiences can be when it comes to guys putting themselves over so will play it very carefully to avoid fan backlash.


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## TheLooseCanon (Jun 18, 2013)

validreasoning said:


> Daniel Bryan, fans truly believed wwe and Vince/HHH were holding him down though. Bryan was also unique then, a short, non muscled, average looking guy on a roster filled with tall,good looking muscled guys in top spots like Cena, Orton, del Rio, HHH. That was pure lightning in a bottle.. attempting to recreate that storyline where life was imitating art would be impossible and not be anywhere near as effective.
> 
> Also people know who Kenny is. He is biggest star outside WWE since closure of wcw. He was bigger star in Japan than styles was when he signed with WWE in January 2016. Many were saying not long ago that wwe should build around him and make Omega FOTC.


Well it seems AEW is doing the 'poor Omega' storyline to keep him away from the top spot out of the gate. It's obvious they are saving him for a long push, and to gain 'sympathy' from new fans. I don't mean recreate Bryan's push, I used Bryan as the 'underdog' push example, the type of push that has always been around.

If you are arguing against what I said, and what they seem to be doing, the alternate is, being part of the guys who run the company, do you think he is intentionally burying himself?

There are 2 ways to look at the situation - logically seeing them have the guy 'they want' as the top guy to lose at the start for a sympathy babyface climb to the top, or if you are arguing that isn't what they are doing - a guy that has stake in the company wanting to bury himself for no reason.


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## TheLooseCanon (Jun 18, 2013)

On the flipside, I now understand why Cody has been winning everything. Wins matter, and he brought it up again tonight in the post interview.

They needed a Cody to be Jericho's first contender. So in order to get Cody ready in their minds, was for him to win the singles matches at all these shows. It doesn't mean Cody is putting himself over. They needed Cody to be day 1 contender for TV, like they need Page to lose to Jericho, like they need Omega to play the long game for the big 'face of the company' pay off.

Right now is about building up the title, and having people tune in on Jericho's name.

Omega's crowning will come.


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## RelivingTheShadow (Apr 25, 2013)

birthday_massacre said:


> IMO Codey should have lost tonight via MJF screwiing him over. MJF could have said he was tired of being in Codeys shadow and how Codey didnt even put him on the PPV. A Codey vs MJF feud could be amazing.
> 
> Also giving Spears a win would have been good. Now he is still just a geek.


No way, that would've been terrible. That's such a WWE thing to do to hot shot a break up like that this early. Hasn't even built on TV, and if they just started a feud on TNT, no one would've been invested into it.

They did that portion perfectly tonight, the way MJF kept fucking up the match "unintentionally", him looking at the chair for an extra second and contemplating it, quality story telling. I would let this simmer for a long time.

I imagine Cody won because it's going to be Jericho Vs. Cody at Full Gear.


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## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

It’s smart:

- he’s not booking himself to win, so he appears humble and wins support later 

- someone needs to lose to put over everyone else early on

- he’s not a big name yet internationally, so by the time he rises up, the wider audience will be behind him!

I like it

Who else would you pick to lose big matches early on? PAC? Moxley?


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## RubberbandGoat (Aug 9, 2016)

I don’t know how he got to be wrestler of the year 2017 and 2018. His matches so far in AEW have been awful


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## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

McGee said:


> Well wasn't the premise of the company from the start that wins and losses matter? Since the start of the company Kenny has been a Loser.


And that's why he isn't on the title contention?. Only the guys with a positive record or winning a contender elimination match are going to challenge for the title. It has been clear since DoN.



RubberbandGoat said:


> I don’t know how he got to be wrestler of the year 2017 and 2018. His matches so far in AEW have been awful


Everyone agreed that he was wrestler of the year in 2018. Maybe you are on the minority?


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## ScottishPsychopath (May 25, 2019)

Old school storytelling.....I like it!


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## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

Everyone is so conditioned to WWE way of booking these days... holy shit the complains that I have been reading since the show ended. Get out of the bubble and watch old stuff and new stuff from outside the fed.


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## patpat (Feb 17, 2019)

TheLooseCanon said:


> On the flipside, I now understand why Cody has been winning everything. Wins matter, and he brought it up again tonight in the post interview.
> 
> They needed a Cody to be Jericho's first contender. So in order to get Cody ready in their minds, was for him to win the singles matches at all these shows. It doesn't mean Cody is putting himself over. They needed Cody to be day 1 contender for TV, like they need Page to lose to Jericho, like they need Omega to play the long game for the big 'face of the company' pay off.
> 
> ...


 I have nothing else to say,,I mean I knew where the storyline was going. and you know what? I predict this shit like a long time ago on twitter
bringing Kenny Omega and saying "he is a great wrestler from Japan and he is the top face" I feel like it could fail. that redemption arc will make omega bigger than he has ever been, omega HIMSELF defended such an idea first in his first aew promo with his "I was supposed to be the chosen one" and when he said "my best performance are when I come from behind" , heck the guy even said in an Alicia about interview that just being "njpw top guy omega right off the gate" Is I quote "boring" and I agree. 
are they hurting his stock? absolutely, but this could make him bigger than ever with the payoff. my thought was that they wanted to build omega's big "climbing back to the top" ON TV. so getting all the big loss before the tv is just the smart way to go, 
with this I see 2 things the omega moxley aint happening soon, and omega will win ( when he would have lost here). 
as for cody, anyone saying the guy who was ok with drawing with fucking Darby Allin is putting himself over is joking. BS, cody is the first Jericho contender, he is one of the guy with the most momentum if omega won here the title feud would have been what? kenny vs Jericho? , as a massive omega fan I wouldn't care AT ALL. cody vs y2j is the way to go for the first title rivalry. and for anyone thinking they aren't setting up omega to be this gigantic babyface that makes an iconic comeback and slay Jericho?...you are a fool. omega isn't burying himself, he is taking the " he is an EVP so even if he wins he is just booking himself over" off of him. 
at the end omega will beat Jericho and potentially become their next big thing right after Y2J but if you can use his loss to establish guys like pac do it.


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## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

V-Trigger said:


> Everyone is so conditioned to WWE way of booking these days... holy shit the complains that I have been reading since the show ended. Get out of the bubble and watch old stuff and new stuff from outside the fed.


Well i have been watching pro wrestling since 1980 and WOS initially. Can you point to a 'Redemption angle' (your words) that drew serious money in the past?

Omega won matches in NJPW on American soil and is North American so an angle where he is struggling to adapt to the US would be a bit weird.

People state there is money in the chase but reality is Bruno, Hogan, Flair., Cena, Okada, Austin, Inoki, Big Daddy rarely chased.


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## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

validreasoning said:


> People state there is money in the chase but reality is Bruno, Hogan, Flair., Cena, Okada, Austin, Inoki, Big Daddy rarely chased.


Okada just had a redemption angle last year and it worked perfectly. Omega will be fine.


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## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

V-Trigger said:


> validreasoning said:
> 
> 
> > People state there is money in the chase but reality is Bruno, Hogan, Flair., Cena, Okada, Austin, Inoki, Big Daddy rarely chased.
> ...


Okada had been iwgp champ for roughly 1,500 days since 2012 and multi time Tokyo done maineventer so firmly established by then.

Kenny will be fine but the hottest wrestler outside WWE and all but a handful of guys in WWE at the time like maybe Cena and Rousey in 2017-18 losing his first big matches in front of national audience is strange booking. I ain't a booker but if I had a hot act I would protect it as much as possible.


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## Laughable Chimp (Sep 1, 2016)

V-Trigger said:


> Okada just had a redemption angle last year and it worked perfectly. Omega will be fine.


Personally, I thought the Okada redemption plot thread worked because of how Okada commited to it. He felt like a completely different person in the G1, like he was somehow happy that he was relieved of the burden of the title and not just couldn't give a fuck anymore. It was intriguing to see. 

But tbh, that angle kind of fucked it at the end when he beat Jay White. I don't even like Jay White but Okada losing to Jay White at WK was actually interesting, because it really felt like the old Okada was gone. Then one Fale feud and New Japan cup later, he's suddenly regained his mojo for seemingly no storyline reason and beats White. And now we're back to the old, uber dominant Okada.


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## patpat (Feb 17, 2019)

validreasoning said:


> Okada had been iwgp champ for roughly 1,500 days since 2012 and multi time Tokyo done maineventer so firmly established by then.
> 
> Kenny will be fine but the hottest wrestler outside WWE and all but a handful of guys in WWE at the time like maybe Cena and Rousey in 2017-18 losing his first big matches in front of national audience is strange booking. I ain't a booker but if I had a hot act I would protect it as much as possible.


 i do get your point, but that's the thing. they are not on tv yet. if they want to push the guy with a big redemption angle, having all of his big loss happen before they are on tv is the smart way. this way they have A) the background to show that kenny is In a downfall and B) they can build him as an absolute winner on tv. 
and to be fair, his story arc is actually interesting right now. doing what you say would in fact preserve omega's stock , but I feel it wouldn't allow him to reach a certain stratosphere and I feel like this story is the way to go.


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## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

AEW doesn't need the best version of Kenny Omega right now with the likes of Moxley and a red hot Cody. He can take his time and build this storyline.


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## patpat (Feb 17, 2019)

I just think this was the plan all along, remember when he lost that match against don callis in an indy? 
it's a story the guy wants to tell because he feels like he can pull it off and I think if this works once they are on tv, he will be bigger than ever was. 
still sees him as the guy who will beat Y2J


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## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

Wrestlefire said:


> I think people would bitch too much if EVP Kenny won all his matches, even if he were clearly qualified to do so.
> 
> He's building the roster by putting PAC over.



This, Omega a VP and one of the faces of the company. He's gonna be in a high profile match on every big ppv. He doesn't need to win every big match. If he loses big matches he's not losing his spot on the card. Right now Omega is the VP establishing the top guys by losing to Jericho/Pac. He will probably lose to Moxley at some point too. But hes not always going to he losing. There will be a shift where he goes on big winning streak. Then someone like Cody will be the one use to put over some talent. 


As for Pac, he's one of their top 6 main event guys. Pac gonna be in big matches for the company. So fans need to get over the fact how he was used in WWE. He's going to be a top guy in AEW. Right now I expect Omega to get some singles wins on tv. Then lose to Moxley at the ppv which will make Omega record 3-3 or something.


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## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

If they're going to tell a Road to Redemption story with Omega, then him losing here is the right thing.

It reminds me of the great Sami Zayn story from NXT in 2014. You tear him down and give him obstacles to overcome and then he can overcome them on his way to the top. I could see Omega losing to Mox too after losing to Jericho and PAC, and then beating them all later on the road to the title.

If he's going to be more of a face character, that's the best role for him. Though he could make a great heel champion one day too.


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## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

V-Trigger said:


> AEW doesn't need the best version of Kenny Omega right now with the likes of Moxley and a red hot Cody. He can take his time and build this storyline.


Six months from now people will be complaining about Omega winning to much. He's just starting out this way to establish guys in AEW. While Cody will go in tough stretch where he's losing a few big matches in a row too at some point. I can see Omega winning a few singles on tv. 


Then when it's looking like he's back on track. He will lose to Moxley at the next ppv. After that though I expect Omega not to lose much for a while and get wins back against Pac, Moxley and Jericho next year.


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## NondescriptWWEfan (May 9, 2017)

the crowd was visibly upset that he lost :lol

if they do it right it could lead to him being a sympathetic character and him getting a big cheer when he finally wins, if they do it wrong he ends up not being taken seriously.


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## Blade Runner (Jan 24, 2012)

Some people in this thread have already hit the nail right on the head: It's meant to be a slow-build to create sympathy around his character infront of an American audience. Not everyone that'll tune in will know about his NJPW history or even give a shit. This is an interesting way to go with his character.


I'm a big PAC fan, so I had no issues with giving him the win if it helps build him up as a threat.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Building Omega isn't a bad option. But given who's their main audience supporting them i think they certainly could've just come out the gate with "look this is Kenny Omega he's one of, if not the best wrestler in the world. Look at his wins over Jericho and PAC.


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## Asuka842 (Jul 19, 2016)

Omega failing to win these big matches could be an interesting story if that's where they're going with it. My guess is that he would have lost to Moxley here if that match had happened.


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## llj (Feb 22, 2018)

Considering Omega is an executive at AEW, I wouldn't be concerned whatsoever about his booking.


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## Asuka842 (Jul 19, 2016)

Also they seem to be at least a little aware of the potential "The Elite booking themselves to win a lot" complaints. They've been, selective, about when they win so far.


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## Aedubya (Jul 12, 2019)

I like it, smart booking

All this losing will drive him insane


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## Darkest Lariat (Jun 12, 2013)

I think it gives him depth. There he was in Japan, king of the world. Now in America he is struggling. It will give him something to overcome. No one likes a guy who wins all the time. It also helps build other characters that go over him. Which the company really needs right now.

The dude will bounce back. I see him beating Mox in their match and regaining his former glory. I actually appreciate AEW's approach to long term storylines like this.


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## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

I don't understand some of you people.

You don't like the 50/50, nonsensical booking of WWE in terms of who wins and loses (which is understandable because it is bullshit) so when AEW, who make it clear that match records will be important, you want Omega to get wins/losses that don't matter to the story they are trying to tell for him?

PAC winning was a surprise because the WWE mentality of always having your faces, even when they shouldn't all the time, doesn't apply here. It's clear they are going for a redemption story for Omega that will lead him to eventually become the AEW World champion. It's a simple story to tell so yes, Omega is going to lose a couple of time in order to get the point across that he has to find himself in order to truly become a worthy champion and franchise player.

Man, WWE has really done a great job convincing wrestling fans their half-ass storytelling and 50/50 booking is the standard everyone should abide by.


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## Raye (Jul 23, 2018)

Asuka842 said:


> Also they seem to be at least a little aware of the potential "The Elite booking themselves to win a lot" complaints. They've been, selective, about when they win so far.


The Bucks even did a sit down interview with CVV where they were opposed to winning their original matches with the Lucha Bros but Tony had the final say in the decision.


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## patpat (Feb 17, 2019)

ok people here is the thing, no fucking body can force a story into Kenny Omega and this story is 
his.own. 
how do I know that? because it's a story he started to tell right after losing to Tanahashi. right after that he lost to Don callis in a random indy show, I thought it was random. but in an actual documentary on itv , he acknowledges it and I doubt Tony khan or anyone forced him to say it. 
this means that HE himself decided to start his own downfall and book his redemption arc. at DON, he is brought in as The guy, the big dog and fails against Y2J and goes on a total downfall. 


in his very first promo in aew's official channel ( in a road to) despite being in a rivalry with mox the focus point is 1) taking back the title that obsesses him and taking back his spot as the Face of the company. he said in an interview with Atout that just hot shotting himself in the top spot is boring and he is going to do it progressively. in one of his promo "my best performances are when I come from behind". 
in other words he knows he is going to have to expand himself to a wider audience so he is going to tell a much more fascinating story that gives him the advantage of being seen as the best in the world and an underdog at the same time. that's a redemption story. 


Jericho confirmed in one of his interview after DON and fyter that alpha vs omega III will happen later with much more stake. the downfall of Kenny Omega started with Chris Jericho preventing him from getting into the title picture and it's going to end with omega slicing Jericho down, being the one that dethrone him and I quote Jericho himself "make omega into a bigger star mainstream wise" 
I don't think there is going to be a heel turn yet, I think they are going to do exactly what the story is hinting at, a classic babyface redemption to get omega as the face. in other word he is doing the chase. that's all lol


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## Blisstory (Apr 22, 2019)

A few months ago Kenny Omega was the hottest free agent in wrestling.

Today he's lost to a 50yo WWE wash up & a former Cruiserweight champion. But yeah, WWE would have ruined him.


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## patpat (Feb 17, 2019)

"omg omg omega is ruined" :lol


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## Upstart474 (May 13, 2018)

Omega losing to inferior talent is just bad.


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## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Lol @ PAC being called "inferior talent" when he's having one of, if not, his best years right now.


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

When will people stop looking at the now and understand that AEW is creating a story. They are creating a book and they have long term plans for everyone. I can bet you anyhting Kenny is going to be on a losing streak because wins and loses matter.So it will be part of the storyline they are creating for him.

I bet the big part of him losing is because hes such a baby face and will prob be part of the big heel stable that is coming folks.


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## midgetlover69 (Nov 27, 2016)

Yea yea we get it. Please stop with the losing streak, "redemption" bullshit. Im sure everyone here has watched enough wrestling to see whats going on. This isnt some genius storyline

The fact of the matter is they threw away any bit of credibility that he had when they are a company full of nobodies already. Really ties into the running theme so far of everyone on the roster wanting to put themselves over in their own dream booking and 5 star dream matches instead of focusing on the bigger picture.


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## thisissting (Aug 14, 2018)

I think he is too nice a guy for his own good. Putting PAC over so the company has another player and decent heel. At the end of the day his losing record does make him look weak though. Needs to have more ego if he wants to be a mega star there is no way a prime hogan let's a PAC win clean if at all just never happening.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

shandcraig said:


> When will people stop looking at the now and understand that AEW is creating a story. They are creating a book and they have long term plans for everyone. I can bet you anyhting Kenny is going to be on a losing streak because wins and loses matter.So it will be part of the storyline they are creating for him.
> 
> 
> 
> I bet the big part of him losing is because hes such a baby face and will prob be part of the big heel stable that is coming folks.


The thing is it's not exactly a compelling story though. Then the whole "well you have to build him up for fans that don't know him" line of thinking makes little sense. Because if I don't know him why should I be invested in this "loser" that everybody says is great. Its even more underwhelming because they're halfway going with it. The guy is 2-2 in the company, not 0-4.


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## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

RapShepard said:


> Then the whole "well you have to build him up for fans that don't know him" line of thinking makes little sense. Because if I don't know him why should I be invested in this "loser" that everybody says is great.


Because he's insanely talented and losing the match doesn't mean people aren't going to notice.

Then he's going to probably start turning more heel as he sheds his overconfident nice guy persona and gets brutal.

It's really not rocket science, it's a classic story and for a reason, it works.


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Hes lost twice and we need to riot ? Someones going to lose twice.Why does everyone need to dictate exactly how many times someone wins or loses. So what we just have a constant equal anount of wins and loses between everyone ? Sounds boring as fuck to me. The guy will get over regardless of who comes out in the end of the match.


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## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

What a lot of people forget about characters in fiction is that the compelling part is the EVOLUTION of a character over the course of the narrative.

WWE mostly doesn't do this (correct me if I'm wrong, I don't watch their crap anymore) but they tend to set a character, and they don't change much for a while, they're just involved in stories. They might have a 'turn', but it generally happens fast and then they're a new character.

This is bad storytelling. You want the narratives to CHANGE the characters in them slowly over time. You tease shit, you get people thinking what they're going to do next.

You can tell they know this, from the shocking Kenny finish that makes you unsure how matches might end in the future, to the tease of MJF turning on Cody at All Out.

They know what they're doing, there's no doubt about it anymore.


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## Sephiroth766 (Mar 25, 2015)

I'm fine with this. If you watch the match, Omega was clearly messing up moves, and/or taking too much time between them which caused Pac to take advantage. It seems they are telling the story that he's in a funk and may doesn't have it. Also Omega losing to Pac makes sense in a way because Omega was preparing only for Moxely and was not prepared for Pac and his submission. It also could lead to a story where Omega will go into madness heading into his match with Moxely.


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## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

Pac comes off like more of a star to me anyway.


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## Sephiroth766 (Mar 25, 2015)

BTW he's 1-2. Not like he's lost every match he's been in. He's been competitive in every match but it seems, in kayfabe, something is off that he can't pull out these big victories. Maybe they can reference him losing the title at WK to Tanahashi and that is where his "funk" started and from there he's not been the same.


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## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

WINNING said:


> I don't understand some of you people.
> 
> You don't like the 50/50, nonsensical booking of WWE in terms of who wins and loses (which is understandable because it is bullshit) so when AEW, who make it clear that match records will be important, you want Omega to get wins/losses that don't matter to the story they are trying to tell for him?
> 
> ...


When you have four shows some guys are gonna have 50/50 booking. It's a problem in WWE because they do it with about 15 guys over full year of booking. There's nothing wrong with the top main event guys sharing wins. 


In late 90s or early 2000s it's not like Stone Cold, Undertaker, Rock or Triple H dominated match ups. So there's nothing wrong with Omega booking So far. Especially with so much lack of shows. Omega could get random win on tv vs someone then lose to Moxley at Full Gear. Then easily win 10-12 matches in a row. Which is why fans are overreacting now.


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## Stellar (May 30, 2016)

Someone has to lose in these matches and I do think that this will benefit Omega in the long run.


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Omega loses 2 matches and the fan boys riot. Come on people its fucking fake. You think AEW has a master plan to fucking bury one of his executives to the point where he leaves the company. People need more going on in their lives


Again its long term thinking not hot shot booking. We're going to go over the same problem with every single wrestler on the roster, Many more will lose many more matches after another.


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## TheWhole_Damn-Show (Jan 8, 2013)

If I could have it my way I'd have Moxley beating Omega at Full Gear (Jericho retains at Full Gear against Cody) then Moxley gets his title shot early next year and wins, all while Omega is winning on TV and beats Pac in a rematch at the same PPV which Moxley wins the AEW World Title

After that Omega is desperate to right the wrong of losing to Moxley, who asks why he should have to as he's beaten Omega once already and would do so again etc etc and then eventually after running the gauntlet on TV book the rematch at DoN next May which would take things full circle a year in the making, the start of Omega's "funk" (at least within AEW) and Moxley's debut but this time Omega wins and stands tall to close the show


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

TheWhole_Damn-Show said:


> If I could have it my way I'd have Moxley beating Omega at Full Gear (Jericho retains at Full Gear against Cody) then Moxley gets his title shot early next year and wins, all while Omega is winning on TV and beats Pac in a rematch at the same PPV which Moxley wins the AEW World Title
> 
> After that Omega is desperate to right the wrong of losing to Moxley, who asks why he should have to as he's beaten Omega once already and would do so again etc etc and then eventually after running the gauntlet on TV book the rematch at DoN next May which would take things full circle a year in the making, the start of Omega's "funk" (at least within AEW) and Moxley's debut but this time Omega wins and stands tall to close the show




I can dig your idea. Will be interesting to see how it goes. Its going to take good time to put everyone to win the world championship and to look good. Some need the downword struggle story


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## Bryan Jericho (Sep 8, 2014)

I get the beating the odds thing and having him come back to win after this stretch, but come on. Its Kenny Omega! Its compete crap saying he's not over or not known in America. The AEW fans know who Omega is. It just seems like a "they think we're gonna push him, so lets put him on a losing streak". Cody should be the guy taking losses.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Tilon said:


> Because he's insanely talented and losing the match doesn't mean people aren't going to notice.
> 
> Then he's going to probably start turning more heel as he sheds his overconfident nice guy persona and gets brutal.
> 
> It's really not rocket science, it's a classic story and for a reason, it works.


I'm not speaking on his talent though. I'm specifically talking about why would a losing streak be an interesting storyline for people new to Kenny Omega. Feel like you would've been better off just presenting him as the face of the company and going from there. This possible story isn't interesting.


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

RapShepard said:


> I'm not speaking on his talent though. I'm specifically talking about why would a losing streak be an interesting storyline for people new to Kenny Omega. Feel like you would've been better off just presenting him as the face of the company and going from there. This possible story isn't interesting.


Then you wont like the new joker movie


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

shandcraig said:


> Then you wont like the new joker movie


Cut it the fuck out, AEW isn't telling possible award winning movie type stories you and I both know that. They aren't even going all the way in trying to tell this alleged losing streak story seeing as Omega is 2-2.


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## ApocalypticDemise (Sep 2, 2019)

Made perfect for Omega to lose to Pac. 

Pac is new in the company and with his rep he can't lose yet. Omega losing by him passing out makes it look like Omega was ready to fight till the end.

Now Omega can go back to his feud with Mox and Pac can do whatever and fully be introduced into AEW.


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## Chrome (Jan 11, 2012)

Since when is 2 losses in the span of 3 months considered "constantly?" Also fwiw, Omega is 0-2 on their "bigger" ppvs, so the story they could be trying to tell is that Omega is becoming a choke artist.


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

The payoff is gonna be huge I know that much


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## patpat (Feb 17, 2019)

prosperwithdeen said:


> The payoff is gonna be huge I know that much


this, I see a lot of people saying "booo it's not gonna work booo it's another underdog story" 
well I will let the expert omega who does it since always and who was able to get every single one of his character and stories over before handle it. and I will watch how things go 
and i do think it's the perfect way to get him over on tv, and when I say over I don't mean "people like him" no I mean fucking over. because yes omega is a huge guy in wrestling but in term of mainstream he isn't. Jericho said himself with alpha omega III and their stories they will turn KO mainstream. 
i will wait and judge the final product


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

That one guy in here so fired up over Kenny losing twice lol.They need to get out and meet some people and get some fresh air. Kenny will be doing big things down the road and people wont give a shit weather he wont or not. Especily if hes a heel. 


I always laughed at the people many months ago going on and on and on about this bloody wins and loses.Its a gimmick in a fake industry and people are shitting themselves over the concept day in and day out. 


In the end it really wont matter. Its simply a front to look cool on screen and to push some storylines.


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