# AEW are not ready for this kind of war



## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

Only thing cool about NXT is Rippley, Adam Cole (fn traitor should've came to AEW with his bullet club friends... along with Fin Balor -- fn accepting a demotion instead joining his bullet club family -- Cole & Balor are traitors) and maybe Keith Lee & Roderick Strong... ooo and Matt Riddle! Matt Riddle is my legit favorite. I think he would be better in AEW along with Cole & Balor. 

Khan's have 4x more money than McMahon's. They haven't been in business in 1 year and already racked up all wins in key demos except for 1 week. This is embarrassing for NXT who's been around for a couple of years.


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## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

Gh0stFace said:


> Only thing cool about NXT is Rippley, Adam Cole (fn traitor should've came to AEW with his bullet club friends... along with Fin Balor -- fn accepting a demotion instead joining his bullet club family -- Cole & Balor are traitors) and maybe Keith Lee & Roderick Strong... ooo and Matt Riddle! Matt Riddle is my legit favorite. I think he would be better in AEW along with Cole & Balor.
> 
> Khan's have 4x more money than McMahon's. They haven't been in business in 1 year and already racked up all wins in key demos except for 1 week. This is embarrassing for NXT who's been around for a couple of years.


jesus


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## Best Bout Machine (Jan 24, 2009)

Gh0stFace said:


> Only thing cool about NXT is Rippley, Adam Cole (fn traitor should've came to AEW with his bullet club friends... along with Fin Balor -- fn accepting a demotion instead joining his bullet club family -- Cole & Balor are traitors) and maybe Keith Lee & Roderick Strong... ooo and Matt Riddle! Matt Riddle is my legit favorite. I think he would be better in AEW along with Cole & Balor.
> 
> Khan's have 4x more money than McMahon's. They haven't been in business in 1 year and already racked up all wins in key demos except for 1 week. This is embarrassing for NXT who's been around for a couple of years.


This is pretty spot on.


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## The Masked Avenger (Apr 18, 2018)

AEW didn't set out to compete, they set out to be an alternative. They wanted to be a wrestling show that wasn't WWE for the fans and another place to go for frustrated WWE wrestlers. The drop from WWE to RoH or Impact is quite far and wanted to be that gap but with a better budget with better pay. WWE decided to counter produce AEW by taking NXT off the network and putting them against Dynamite. WWE's goal is to kill AEW not compete. They were going to put NXT against Dynamite regardless of what night they put it on.


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## TAC41 (Jun 8, 2016)

Gh0stFace said:


> Only thing cool about NXT is Rippley, Adam Cole (fn traitor should've came to AEW with his bullet club friends... along with Fin Balor -- fn accepting a demotion instead joining his bullet club family -- Cole & Balor are traitors) and maybe Keith Lee & Roderick Strong... ooo and Matt Riddle! Matt Riddle is my legit favorite. I think he would be better in AEW along with Cole & Balor.
> 
> Khan's have 4x more money than McMahon's. They haven't been in business in 1 year and already racked up all wins in key demos except for 1 week. This is embarrassing for NXT who's been around for a couple of years.


Imagine being such a blind puppet that you think someone staying in WWE rather than joining a promotion that will be dead and buried in less than a year is a betrayal and makes that person a traitor. 

How embarrassing it must be to be you. 

Just because Daddy Khan is worth more than Vince doesn’t mean he’s willing to blow his entire fortune keeping a struggling wrestling show afloat for his son. AEW has already lost 50% of its viewership since its debut, and it is STILL losing viewers every single week. 

TNA’s parent company had more money than Vince too...how did that work out for them?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Balor fan (May 9, 2017)

AEW is a promotion 'For the Smarks, by the Smarks and of the Smarks'. And this wont work. Because smarks don't know how to run a TV show. AEW wrestlers don't even seem to know where the camera is. The 'Elites' are just a bunch of amateurs really.


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## TheDraw (Jun 27, 2019)

Gh0stFace said:


> Only thing cool about NXT is Rippley, Adam Cole (fn traitor should've came to AEW with his bullet club friends... along with Fin Balor -- fn accepting a demotion instead joining his bullet club family -- Cole & Balor are traitors) and maybe Keith Lee & Roderick Strong... ooo and Matt Riddle! Matt Riddle is my legit favorite. I think he would be better in AEW along with Cole & Balor.
> 
> Khan's have 4x more money than McMahon's. They haven't been in business in 1 year and already racked up all wins in key demos except for 1 week. This is embarrassing for NXT who's been around for a couple of years.


Traitor? Cole doesnt owe AEW a damn thing. This is why AEW fans have such a bad reputation....


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

I'm not sure what the point of the OP is? They should concede to NXT? Present themselves as a lesser brand? Somehow this would make AEW better?


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## Deathiscoming (Feb 1, 2019)

AEW is trash, and I say that as someone who doesn't even like NxT. Basically, 

NxT is a bunch of vanilla midget workrate guys and a bunch of fuckin women...but they also have Matt Riddle, Damien Priest, Villain Dain and Keith Lee. 

But AEW is a bunch of goofy gimmicks, Indy geeks, freaks (Sonny kiss, Nyla Rose, Marko Stunt, Dark Order, that bald ****, Awesome Kong), spotfesty no-selling gymnasts (young bucks, PP, Luchas), and a bunch of fuckin women wrestlers (Nobody cares about women's wrestling, let alone Japanese women)..

And they also have Midcard Moxley, Midcard Cody, an outta shape 50-yr old Jericho, and a Miz-Jericho wannabe knockoff MJF(minus the wrestling ability). 

Basically, NxT>AEW, and I don't even like NxT. But AEW is trash.


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## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

They tried to out indy and out high spot WWE, which was never going to happen. NXT has way more brand power and guys who do that style better. They should have tried to be pro wrestling and hire pro wrestlers, guys who can work, talk, and look the part. But no, they actually think this style is over, so they did PWG with a bunch of goofy bastards who shouldn't be on TV


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## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

Balor fan said:


> AEW is a promotion 'For the Smarks, by the Smarks and of the Smarks'. And this wont work. Because smarks don't know how to run a TV show. AEW wrestlers don't even seem to know where the camera is. The 'Elites' are just a bunch of amateurs really.


Sounds very ironic coming from someone named Balor Fan. Ask Deathiscoming for trolling advice.


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## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

TheDraw said:


> Traitor? Cole doesnt owe AEW a damn thing. This is why AEW fans have such a bad reputation....


LOYALTY > $$$. It's obvious WWE doesn't give a fuck about it's wrestlers. All they care about is the bottom line. One only needs to read Ashley Massaro's affidavit made under criminal penalty of perjury as an ex-employee [correction: INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR] (https://wweconcussionlawsuitnews.co...19/05/Ashley-Massaro-Affidavit-Clean-11.1.pdf) before she killed herself.


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## Scissor Me Daddy-O!! (Apr 13, 2011)

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> AEW didn't set out to compete, *they set out to be an alternative.* They wanted to be a wrestling show that wasn't WWE for the fans and another place to go for frustrated WWE wrestlers. The drop from WWE to RoH or Impact is quite far and wanted to be that gap but with a better budget with better pay. WWE decided to counter produce AEW by taking NXT off the network and putting them against Dynamite. WWE's goal is to kill AEW not compete. They were going to put NXT against Dynamite regardless of what night they put it on.


This. 

If anything, NXT is trying to be equal or compete against AEW. While I feel NXT is better, I think the worst thing AEW did was prove to WWE that there is a market for actual pro wrestling content such as AEW and NXT. Since AEW proved that, it's an uphill battle for AEW because WWE already has so much in place, so many Stockholm fans who have been continually watching WWE waiting for an alternative.


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Gh0stFace said:


> Sounds very ironic coming from someone named Balor Fan. Ask Deathiscoming for trolling advice.


*That's like expecting every Io fan to love Joshi wrestling when she obviously stands out above all of them. Ridiculous correlation.*


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

Khan is starting to look like another Dixie Carter. Too many chiefs, not enough Indians.

The Dark Order fucking blows, it's worse than the Aces/Eights. But you can tell with all the vignettes they put money into, we're probably seeing it well into 2020.

The hype Wardlow up with video packages, then tell him to hit the bench while the vanilla midget ratings killers do they spots.


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## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

Realistically, sports entertainment is an industry with a significantly thinner talent pool compared to elite sports/Hollywood. Respectfully, by nature of the talent pool, AEW is selling talent that might be considered leftovers/flawed in a few traits. Of that pool, what traits did they target? Great athleticism (and of course a small handful of characters for promos). They've essentially turned athleticism in the leftover talent pool into a marketable asset. This is only possible with their current style of wrestling.

It's really not a war IMO. And while they'd love to eventually grow it enough to make it a war, they probably know they're not likely to grow heaps with this formula, but I don't think that bothers them. Like Tony Kahn said, great ratings doesn't mean it was a great show. He wants a great show... and he can sell a great show with the leftover athleticism available outside WWE to a hardcore audience willing to consume another few hours of wrestling content each week.


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## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *That's like expecting every Io fan to love Joshi wrestling when she obviously stands out above all of them. Ridiculous correlation.*


This person is obviously a troll knowing what WWE did to Balor. And it's hilarious you're taking him so seriously.


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## 304418 (Jul 2, 2014)

No, it's that AEW's playing around too much.

NXT isn’t doing that. They have their approach to a sports based presentation, and then they implement it. And it works. And I'm happy with what I’m seeing, even though I've only started to seriously pay attention to NXT for the last couple of episodes. It feels grown up, and it wasn’t like NXT before the Wednesday Night War was a kiddie show either.

AEW had a good approach with the PPVs, and then decided to experiment with different ideas when they made it onto tv and what started out as a grown up wrestling show has turned out cartoonish. They are now WWE-lite. You know which other company was considered WWE-lite at one point? Impact Wrestling circa 2013, and look where they are now.

NXT signs the stars from the indies they need to sign. AEW ignored some big names that were available, even though there were slim pickings to begin with, and chose to hire their friends instead.

NXT has numerous faces for the brand and book them accordingly. AEW has their faces for its brand and while some are used correctly (Jericho, Moxley), other are either not there (Riho) or are relegated to midcard acts even though they’re over with the crowd and should be receiving top billing (Omega). Even Meltzer has noticed this.

NXT is listening to the fans. AEW is doing what they want to do in the way they want to do it.

This is why Vince won the Monday Night Wars and he's set to do it again in the Wednesday Night War, even when all his attention this round is currently on the XFL instead of the competition.


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## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

To those trying to compare Dixie & Tony: Dixie was a stupid publicist and her father (Robert W. Carter) did not own Panda and his net worth is only $34 million. In comparison, Tony was a hardcore wrestling fan since 7 years old, accomplished in business, and his father's net worth is $8.1 billion and he's fully behind AEW.

So stop this Jacksonville Carter BS. It's not even close.


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## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

Reading this thread has definitely killed some brain cells. Pretty sad on both sides.


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

theres NO war. I have not once come in here and claimed of this war nonesense. AEW is at war with itself and it needs to focus on battling that,Not someone else


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## BigCy (Nov 10, 2012)

Deathiscoming said:


> AEW is trash, and I say that as someone who doesn't even like NxT. Basically,
> 
> NxT is a bunch of vanilla midget workrate guys and a bunch of fuckin women...but they also have Matt Riddle, Damien Priest, Villain Dain and Keith Lee.
> 
> ...


I think this is a little harsh but I agree on premise with most of what you said. Women's wrestling is only around because "muh grrrlll power," it only makes a few women and horny neck beards want to watch but as a whole doesn't draw significant numbers that matter and actually probably turns more people off to the product(s) than on.

I wouldn't call AEW "trash" personally but they definitely have room for improvement and if they don't make some changes soon they could very well end up that way.


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## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

MJF, Jericho, Cody, Dustin, Moxley, Wardlow, and Omega should dominate their TV. They should be getting the most TV time, the most promo time, and they should be winning most of their matches in dominant fashion. That should be their nucleus. Pac, Hager, and Hangman are fine as strong midcarders. Everyone else is basically shit, unnecessary hires. All the money they spend on guys like Cutler, Janella, Stunt, Havoc, etc, could have been spend on getting guys like Eli Drake, Ryback, Wade Barrett, etc, real wrestlers who can get over and belong on a national promotion. They could have hired unknown guys to fill out their low midcard and enhancement spots for a fraction of what they spend on those goofs. They can still turn it around if they get a clue, but they've done a ton of damage with their shit booking and awful roster construction.


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## NathanMayberry (Oct 11, 2019)

Gh0stFace said:


> LOYALTY > $$$. It's obvious WWE doesn't give a fuck about it's wrestlers. All they care about is the bottom line. One only needs to read Ashley Massaro's affidavit made under criminal penalty of perjury as an ex-employee [correction: INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR] (https://wweconcussionlawsuitnews.co...19/05/Ashley-Massaro-Affidavit-Clean-11.1.pdf) before she killed herself.


You mean the one that was thrown out by a judge?


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## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

BigCy said:


> I think this is a little harsh but I agree on premise with most of what you said. Women's wrestling is only around because "muh grrrlll power," it only makes a few women and horny neck beards want to watch but as a whole doesn't draw significant numbers that matter and actually probably turns more people off to the product(s) than on.
> 
> I wouldn't call AEW "trash" personally but they definitely have room for improvement and if they don't make some changes soon they could very well end up that way.


Deathiscoming is a troll, lol. Not saying he doesn't deserve attention but most of the shit he says is to get a rise out of people and not necessarily to make a valid point.


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## CGS (Feb 7, 2004)

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> AEW didn't set out to compete, they set out to be an alternative. They wanted to be a wrestling show that wasn't WWE for the fans and another place to go for frustrated WWE wrestlers. The drop from WWE to RoH or Impact is quite far and wanted to be that gap but with a better budget with better pay. WWE decided to counter produce AEW by taking NXT off the network and putting them against Dynamite. WWE's goal is to kill AEW not compete. They were going to put NXT against Dynamite regardless of what night they put it on.


This is it. Vince & Trips wanted a War. They want to take AEW out as quickly as possible. AEW always tried to portray themselves as an alternative to the WWE (although they don't help themselves by throwing shade at E at any given opportunity)


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## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

NathanMayberry said:


> You mean the one that was thrown out by a judge?


It was class-action suit with 30 from what I recall and this is just a little piece of it. WWE fans say there is some appeal going on. Whatever the ruling, it doesn't take away from what she said under oath.


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## MonkasaurusRex (Jul 3, 2016)

Gh0stFace said:


> To those trying to compare Dixie & Tony: Dixie was a stupid publicist and her father (Robert W. Carter) did not own Panda and his net worth is only $34 million. In comparison, Tony was a hardcore wrestling fan since 7 years old, accomplished in business, and his father's net worth is $8.1 billion and he's fully behind AEW.
> 
> So stop this Jacksonville Carter BS. It's not even close.


It doesn't matter if Tony has been a wrestling fan since he was a child. Being a fan doesn't make you a good promoter. It doesn't matter how much money they have available to back the company. So who the fuck cares about their money or Tony's love of wrestling? It doesn't mean jack fucking shit.


Also, let's face it aside from the vast difference in wealth between the Carters and Khans the similarities are there and are clear as day Dixie and Tony are both people who get/got to playing with their daddy's money and run a wrestling company with no fucking clue how to actually do it.


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## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

AEW Dynamites are infinitely better and entertaining than RAW & Smackdown but 20 years of WWE conditioning has people locked into dogmatic perceptions which they now feel is under threat so they will blindly go on the defense.


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## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

This is just another thread for trolls to troll with ridiculous theories that make no sense.


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## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

MonkasaurusRex said:


> It doesn't matter if Tony has been a wrestling fan since he was a child. Being a fan doesn't make you a good promoter. It doesn't matter how much money they have available to back the company. So who the fuck cares about their money or Tony's love of wrestling? It doesn't mean jack fucking shit.
> 
> 
> Also, let's face it aside from the vast difference in wealth between the Carters and Khans the similarities are there and are clear as day Dixie and Tony are both people who get/got to playing with their daddy's money and run a wrestling company with no fucking clue how to actually do it.


AEW even in it's infancy is run way better than WWE. Especially in terms of how the wrestlers are treated. Just read Ashley Massro's account of what she went through with WWE to see how WWE treats it's "stars" (https://wweconcussionlawsuitnews.co...19/05/Ashley-Massaro-Affidavit-Clean-11.1.pdf). The fact of the matter is, WWE only cares about the bottom line. AEW at least makes an effort to listen to criticisms and listens to fans while Vince has been recorded saying "fuck them" in regards to fan's opinions. This is why I don't take WWE lackeys seriously.


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## NathanMayberry (Oct 11, 2019)

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> AEW didn't set out to compete





CGS said:


> AEW always tried to portray themselves as an alternative to the WWE





















They clearly don't want to compete... It's funny they're saying this now that they're losing.


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## NathanMayberry (Oct 11, 2019)

Gh0stFace said:


> It was class-action suit with 30 from what I recall and this is just a little piece of it. WWE fans say there is some appeal going on. Whatever the ruling, it doesn't take away from what she said under oath.


The lawsuits in its entirety was thrown out. For being the bullshit money grab that it was. 

She never said it under oath. The lawyer wrote it. And Ashley apologized for even being associated with that.


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## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

NathanMayberry said:


> They didn't want a war... All they wanted was to talk shit, and face no consequences because they are attention whores.


Who cares WWE was gonna go at them either way. Time will tell over long period of time if AEW was ready or not. Like WWE said when they got their ass kicked in ratings. It's a marathon and we only are at the start of things. Which is why this is all pointless crap.


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## Balor fan (May 9, 2017)

Gh0stFace said:


> Sounds very ironic coming from someone named Balor Fan. Ask Deathiscoming for trolling advice.


Nice try but Balor is 100x better than most of the AEW geeks. Btw, he works for NXT not AEW and doesn't pretend like he has the skills to run a TV show.


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## NathanMayberry (Oct 11, 2019)

Gh0stFace said:


> AEW Dynamites are infinitely better and entertaining than RAW & Smackdown but 20 years of WWE conditioning has people locked into dogmatic perceptions which they now feel is under threat so they will blindly go on the defense.


Clearly it isn't.

Wrestling fans still can't get it into their heads that just because they like something doesn't mean everyone else will think its good.


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## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

Balor fan said:


> Nice try but Balor is 100x better than most of the AEW geeks. Btw, he works for NXT not AEW and doesn't pretend like he has the skills to run a TV show.


You happy with how WWE treated him then demoted him to the developmental brand?


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## NathanMayberry (Oct 11, 2019)

imthegame19 said:


> Who cares WWE was gonna go at them either way. Time will tell over long period of time if AEW was ready or not. Like WWE said when they got their ass kicked in ratings. It's a marathon and we only are at the start of things. Which is why this is all pointless crap.


So did they want a war or nah?


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## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

NathanMayberry said:


> Clearly it isn't.
> 
> Wrestling fans still can't get it into their heads that just because they like something doesn't mean everyone else will think its good.


Based on what? Popularity? You're able to watch the unwatchable RAW & Smackdown shows at the present day? RAW used to draw close to 10 million fans. Dynamite has been around for how long?


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## NathanMayberry (Oct 11, 2019)

Gh0stFace said:


> Based on what? Popularity? You're able to watch the unwatchable RAW & Smackdown shows at the present day? RAW used to draw close to 10 million fans. Dynamite has been around for how long?


Based on the fact that 3 times the number of people choose to watch Raw and 4 times choose to watch Smackdown over AEW.

TNT is on in more homes than USA. They've put up billboards on Times Square and all over the USA. They had ad spots in previews for blockbuster movies and commercials all over the most watched basketball games every single week. If AEW was putting up this amazing show, it would be doing a lot better than it does now.


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## MonkasaurusRex (Jul 3, 2016)

Gh0stFace said:


> AEW even in it's infancy is run way better than WWE. Especially in terms of how the wrestlers are treated. Just read Ashley Massro's account of what she went through with WWE to see how WWE treats it's "stars" (https://wweconcussionlawsuitnews.co...19/05/Ashley-Massaro-Affidavit-Clean-11.1.pdf). The fact of the matter is, WWE only cares about the bottom line. AEW at least makes an effort to listen to criticisms and listens to fans while Vince has been recorded saying "fuck them" in regards to fan's opinion. This is why I don't take WWE lackeys seriously.


Who gives a shit about how YOU feel about "WWE lackeys"? Does that have any bearing on the objective success of WWE as a business? Probably not(well more accurately definitely not). Success in business is based on the bottom line. Does it matter in the long run if you are the absolute greatest and most swell place to work if you are out of business in 3 years? Sure in a perfect world everyone's job would be happy fucking fun time and we'd all be trillionaires but that ain't the way the cookie crumbles now is it? Some people have to eat a boatload of shit to make ends meet it sucks but it's a hard fact of life. My heart bleeds for the wrestlers that get treated poorly and taken advantage of but the repugnant treatment of wrestlers by WWE and other companies as well is not new that secret has been out for at least 30 years. You want horror stories about shitty treatment listen/read about how Bill Watts treated people in Mid-South/UWF( by all accounts he was a very hard, ornery, violent, prick of a man. But he did "get" the wrestling business) you'll fucking swear that Vince and Co are angels but that isn't the point I'm here to make. To be perfectly honest have little desire to defend WWE as a product or company. They still produce some content that I enjoy and some I don't and that is where my concern lives and dies and I'm okay with that. Same with AEW, NWA NJPW, MLW, Impact, etc. I just like pro wrestling that's why I never said anything about the inherent quality or lack thereof in regards to any specific promotions output. They are all viable in some way to someone.

In my original post I also never mentioned WWE one time. I was merely pointing out that $$$ doesn't ensure success. It doesn't matter if you are the world's shrewdest businessman of the fucking barista at your local Starbucks if you have no fucking clue how to run a wrestling company or how to attract viewers/audience/advertisers to your wrestling company the result is likely going to be the same in the end and that is failure. Money can only buy you chances, not results. And that the similarity between Dixie Carter and Tony Khan is very clear and no amount of spin or rhetoric will change the fact that they are both spoiled children getting to play wrestling promoters while spending their daddy's money( however much money that may be).

You seem to literally be the exact type of "fan" that you claim to not be able to stomach just on the other side of the aisle. You hate WWE and damn anyone who doesn't agree with you. They must be the fucking villain. The irony is delicious.


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## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

MonkasaurusRex said:


> Who gives a shit about how YOU feel about "WWE lackeys"? Does that have any bearing on the objective success of WWE as a business? Probably not(well more accurately definitely not). Success in business is based on the bottom line. Does it matter in the long run if you are the absolute greatest and most swell place to work if you are out of business in 3 years? Sure in a perfect world everyone's job would be happy fucking fun time and we'd all be trillionaires but that ain't the way the cookie crumbles now is it? Some people have to eat a boatload of shit to make ends meet it sucks but it's a hard fact of life. My heart bleeds for the wrestlers that get treated poorly and taken advantage of but the repugnant treatment of wrestlers by WWE and other companies as well is not new that secret has been out for at least 30 years. You want horror stories about shitty treatment listen/read about how Bill Watts treated people in Mid-South/UWF( by all accounts he was a very hard, ornery, violent, prick of a man. But he did "get" the wrestling business) you'll fucking swear that Vince and Co are angels but that isn't the point I'm here to make. To be perfectly honest have little desire to defend WWE as a product or company. They still produce some content that I enjoy and some I don't and that is where my concern lives and dies and I'm okay with that. Same with AEW, NWA NJPW, MLW, Impact, etc. I just like pro wrestling that's why I never said anything about the inherent quality or lack thereof in regards to any specific promotions output. They are all viable in some way to someone.
> 
> In my original post I also never mentioned WWE one time. I was merely pointing out that $$$ doesn't ensure success. It doesn't matter if you are the world's shrewdest businessman of the fucking barista at your local Starbucks if you have no fucking clue how to run a wrestling company or how to attract viewers/audience/advertisers to your wrestling company the result is likely going to be the same in the end and that is failure. Money can only buy you chances, not results. And that the similarity between Dixie Carter and Tony Khan is very clear and no amount of spin or rhetoric will change the fact that they are both spoiled children getting to play wrestling promoters while spending their daddy's money( however much money that may be).


Well, you clearly do since you're taking time of your day to write me an essay. Now besides that, you said a lot of perfectly valid things which I agree with. Seeing Bret Hart was what got me into wrestling as a kid. And the way WWE fucked him over left me with a bad taste in a mouth but regardless I continued to watch the product.

I have to disagree as far what drives the bottom line. The better you treat your employees, the more engaged and motivated they are to work, the better the product is, and the more the shareholders benefit. Look into why Southwest Airlines has been one of the most profitable airline companies in an unprofitable industry for 45 years in a row. They don't agree with "customer is always right" -- in fact they vehemently disagree with this and they put their employees first and yet they have the most loyal customers. During a period when airlines weren't making money, Southwest Airlines customers were sending the company CHECKS because of how much they loved the service.

I'm bringing them up because AEW treats wrestlers in similar vain, along with the fans. WWE has been around for 48 years. AEW has barely been around for 1 year. In what universe can you make valid comparisons given lack of data?


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## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

NathanMayberry said:


> Based on the fact that 3 times the number of people choose to watch Raw and 4 times choose to watch Smackdown over AEW.
> 
> TNT is on in more homes than USA. They've put up billboards on Times Square and all over the USA. They had ad spots in previews for blockbuster movies and commercials all over the most watched basketball games every single week. If AEW was putting up this amazing show, it would be doing a lot better than it does now.


LOL. Funny how you conviniently didn't answer my question. How long has Dynamite been around compared to RAW?


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## CMPunkRock316 (Jan 17, 2016)

I don't care what a few ppl are saying I am still enjoying AEW. Is there some issues? Sure. Much of the talent going in I didn't know. I think they need to have better continuity with keeping guys like Darby Allin who a new guys to many. MJF and Mox should be on every episode even if it is just a promo. Create a secondary title whether it is a hardcore, TV or Intercontinental Title.

NXT doesn't do it for me. I liked it in the past. Flippy floppy matches and zero selling and every seems the same (with few exceptions) and yet the NXT marks say the same about AEW. Even guys I like they go to the main roster and crash. I like some of the women's wrestling stuff but WWE has gone way overboard with it. Now that AEW is starting to strengthen their division by bringing in Statlander and Shida who are both excellent. I would like to see Jamie Hayter used more she has a alot of talent and I think Shanna is pretty good too.


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## MonkasaurusRex (Jul 3, 2016)

Gh0stFace said:


> Well, you clearly do since you're taking the time of your day to write me an essay. Now besides that, you said a lot of perfectly valid things which I agree with. Seeing Bret Hart was what got me into wrestling as a kid. And the way WWE fucked him over left me with a bad taste in a mouth but regardless I continued to watch the product.
> 
> I have to disagree as far as what drives the bottom line. The better you treat your employees, the more engaged and motivated they are to work, the better the product is, and the more the shareholders benefit. Look into why Southwest Airlines has been one of the most profitable airline companies in an unprofitable industry for 45 years in a row. They don't agree with "the customer is always right" -- in fact, they vehemently disagree with this and they put their employees first and yet they have the most loyal customers. During a period when airlines weren't making money, Southwest Airlines customers were sending the company CHECKS because of how much they loved the service.
> 
> I'm bringing them up because AEW treats wrestlers in similar vain, along with the fans. You're free to disagree.



I'm not saying that AEW doesn't treat its employees or fans well. I think it's great that they care but again it doesn't amount to shit if they are out of business in three years(I'm not saying that they will be but hypothetically speaking.). Do you think people who lose their jobs go "At least they treated me well"? Most people are more likely going to say "How am I going to pay the hydro bill next month." Fair treatment does without a doubt help boost or maintain good morale which can lead to numerous benefits. I think you are reaching for the comparison between the two. Airlines are highly regulated and there is at least a baseline expectation for the quality of service and it is at least somewhat uniform across the board whereas AEW is in an industry that doesn't have a uniform baseline for the expectation of the quality of the product. It's in the wrestling business and by extension, the TV and entertainment businesses and they all have more of a moving target in terms of expectation vs reality. At some point, AEW is going to have to INCREASE interest in their product from fans and advertisers before the shareholders are going to see any benefits because that is how you stay in business and thrive in the entertainment industry regardless of how well you treat your employees.


----------



## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

CMPunkRock316 said:


> I don't care what a few ppl are saying I am still enjoying AEW. Is there some issues? Sure. Much of the talent going in I didn't know. I think they need to have better continuity with keeping guys like Darby Allin who a new guys to many. MJF and Mox should be on every episode even if it is just a promo. Create a secondary title whether it is a hardcore, TV or Intercontinental Title.
> 
> NXT doesn't do it for me. I liked it in the past. Flippy floppy matches and zero selling and every seems the same (with few exceptions) and yet the NXT marks say the same about AEW. Even guys I like they go to the main roster and crash. I like some of the women's wrestling stuff but WWE has gone way overboard with it.


We think very similar. Thank you for articulating my thoughts.


----------



## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

MonkasaurusRex said:


> I'm not saying that AEW doesn't treat its employees or fans well. I think it's great that they care but again it doesn't amount to shit if they are out of business in three years(I'm not saying that they will be but hypothetically speaking.). Do you think people who lose their jobs go "At least they treated me well"? Most people are more likely going to say "How am I going to pay the hydro bill next month." Fair treatment does without a doubt help boost or maintain good morale which can lead to numerous benefits. I think you are reaching for the comparison between the two. Airlines are highly regulated and there is at least a baseline expectation for the quality of service and it is at least somewhat uniform across the board whereas AEW is in an industry that doesn't have a uniform baseline for the expectation of the quality of the product. It's in the wrestling business and by extension, the TV and entertainment businesses and they all have more of a moving target in terms of expectation vs reality. At some point, AEW is going to have to INCREASE interest in their product from fans and advertisers before the shareholders are going to see any benefits because that is how you stay in business and thrive in the entertainment industry regardless of how well you treat your employees.


AEW has exceeded all expectations and sold more than 100,000 tickets in 2019 despite being an obscure brand before their first Dynamite when they made their exclamation point. Tony Khan is not some dumb mark like Dixie Carter, which is why he just got a new role with Jacksonville Jaguars -- and Cody has mentioned that he learns something from Tony everyday about business. It's not fair to compare Tony to Dixie. Tony is much smarter, comes from a family with a father who went from washing dishes for $1.20/hour to being worth more than $8 billion which is 4x more than McMahon.

Tony has a good business mind (unlike Dixie -- Paul Heyman didn't sign with TNA because they didn't have a 3-year plan), and if I'm wrong about this -- you're free to come to this thread in 5 years and humiliate me. But Tony did say that he has a STRONG 5-year plan for AEW so I don't see them going out of business in 3 years based on 7-8 weeks of ratings where they were only supposed to max out at 500,000.

But I was very dissapointed with how the last Dynamite ended prior to 2020. If either Young Bucks won finally to get the belts, or if they lost and Adam Page revealed that he was part of the Dark Order to give them more legitimacy I don't think the finish would have fell as flat as it did.

Besides, they just sold out 10,000+ arena in Chicago in less than an hour for their next PPV. What makes you think they'll be going out of business in 3 years?


----------



## MonkasaurusRex (Jul 3, 2016)

I never said they were going out of business in three years it was a hypothetical question. I've never once said or meant to imply in any other manner than hypothetical that they won't be successful(I wish them nothing but success(It's good for us fans if they succeed)) or that Tony Khan isn't a good businessman or that Dixie Carter was a good businessperson. I don't care about their five-year plan yet I want them to continue to exist because I like PRO WRESTLING. I just want to be entertained by what they present me with on TV and PPV. That's pretty much where my interest starts and ends.


I won't even remember this conversation in 5 hours let alone 5 years. I don't have any stake in this beyond liking wrestling. I think you may have some fucked up priorities if that kind of thing is ever crossing your mind.


----------



## NathanMayberry (Oct 11, 2019)

Gh0stFace said:


> LOL. Funny how you conviniently didn't answer my question. How long has Dynamite been around compared to RAW?


3 months vs 25 years.. what is your point?


----------



## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

NathanMayberry said:


> 3 months vs 25 years.. what is your point?


Considering how bored people get of shows these days that are older than a few seasons, it's quite worrying if a 25 year old show is doing better than a fresh new show less than 4 months old.


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

reyfan said:


> Considering how bored people get of shows these days that are older than a few seasons, it's quite worrying if a 25 year old show is doing better than a fresh new show less than 4 months old.


Yes and less people are watching live TV each year with tons of people dropping cable annually. 10 years from now it will probably be unheard of for any show to be doing 2+ million on cable weekly.

When Raw was averaging 6 million in 99-2000 top shows on ABC/CBS/NBC was doing far more viewers than now too. Finale of Seinfeld drew 70+ million viewers. Big Bang most watched show on network tv last decade did 18 million for it's finale this year.


----------



## Metalhead1 (Jan 21, 2019)

The OP does make an interesting point. Compared to WWE, AEW is outmanned, outgunned, and they have less money and sphere of influence. What they can do (and what they have been doing) is to offer a more dangerous, edgy, and much less scripted alternative to WWE. This will appeal to the adults, the true wrestling fans, and not just the kiddies. They can offer more unique and engaging personalities, more interesting story lines, and much less scripted interviews and promos, which they have been doing. 

Personally, I watch AEW Dynamite much more than any WWE program, due to the reasons that I mentioned in the previous paragraph. WWE can just get so stale and boring. But at least, they've been improving a bit now that they have some competition.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Gh0stFace said:


> This person is obviously a troll knowing what WWE did to Balor. And it's hilarious you're taking him so seriously.


*I know exactly who he is. I'm addressing your flawed argument, not to whom it's directed.*


----------



## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *I know exactly who he is. I'm addressing your flawed argument, not to whom it's directed.*


He's either a troll or a mark. Only a mark would support WWE after what they did to Balor.


----------



## Stellar (May 30, 2016)

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> AEW didn't set out to compete, they set out to be an alternative. They wanted to be a wrestling show that wasn't WWE for the fans and another place to go for frustrated WWE wrestlers. The drop from WWE to RoH or Impact is quite far and wanted to be that gap but with a better budget with better pay. WWE decided to counter produce AEW by taking NXT off the network and putting them against Dynamite. WWE's goal is to kill AEW not compete. They were going to put NXT against Dynamite regardless of what night they put it on.


Very well said. It's something that gets lost these days.

AEW never said at the start of this thing that they wanted a war with WWE. The EVPs were all saying that AEW will be an alternative to WWE. It is WWE that wanted this to be a "war" (and the fans).

There is a difference between a wrestling company thats been around for decades and another that started this year. It doesn't matter how much AEW or TNT advertised the show. When something is new and different from the "normal" product that the audience had been conditioned to, it's not that easy to get or sustain viewers. Look at football. The AAF (an alternative to the NFL) didn't survive the year.

Look at TNA/Impact. They positioned themselves to being an alternative for a long time and then decided to move to Monday Nights and challenge RAW. That obviously was a mistake, even though they had Hogan and other big names on their roster.

WWE has had dominance in wrestling for a really long, long time and it has shown with their ability to move NXT to USA, 2 hours and live not long after AEW announced their TV deal to compete and even beat AEW in ratings, regardless of how much money the Khans have. When they move a wrestler from RAW or Smackdown that the fans like to help boost the numbers for NXT.


----------



## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

The flips & fast paced matches are a cause of the way social media, internet, and the short attention span of today's culture is. However, what never will get old is having a good story. That will sell you the TV show and ppv. If a fan sees just match vs match vs match vs match, they wont tune for it...they will tune out, because its not engaging, theres no emtion...no 'blood/guts' behind the match, just flips and jeers...they need to add more story and character development. The womens division is a piss-poor sad example of one thing of many wrong with AEW.


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## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

NathanMayberry said:


> So did they want a war or nah?



Did they want a War or WWE to put NXT up against them? No, were they going to stand up for themselves and fire back when Triple H called them piss ant Tee Shirt company. Well clearly yes. Before that AEW was very respectable to WWE in interviews etc. 


WWE put NXT head to head to start this war and AEW beat them. So they are gonna show off some headlines(remember these were article hheadlines not their words)and make sure people know about it. All they've done is fire back at WWE and say were not scared of you.


Now yes Young Bucks been poking fun at WWE for years. But that has nothing to do with AEW. Especially since Young Bucks considered signing with WWE before AEW came together.


----------



## Post-Modern Devil (Jan 26, 2010)

Taroostyles said:


> Reading this thread has definitely killed some brain cells. Pretty sad on both sides.


Yup. A bunch of obsessed, emotionally maladjusted manbabies making a mountain of an anthill because a show bookended with two hyped up world title matches beat a filler episode who's biggest match was Le Champion going ten minutes with a young boy & didn't even feature its biggest draw. AEW wanted to save its big stuff for the new year episode while NXT wanted to go out with a bang and the more hyped up show rightfully won.

I couldn't care less if all of you idiots are 100% in love, critical, or even outright negative of AEW, but behave like proper fucking adults and don't get so fucking emotional over a goddamn TV show.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

NathanMayberry said:


> Based on the fact that 3 times the number of people choose to watch Raw and 4 times choose to watch Smackdown over AEW.
> 
> TNT is on in more homes than USA. They've put up billboards on Times Square and all over the USA. They had ad spots in previews for blockbuster movies and commercials all over the most watched basketball games every single week. If AEW was putting up this amazing show, it would be doing a lot better than it does now.



Nope there's never been a brand new wrestling company start out at Raw or Smackdown ratings. If anyone believed they would do that then networks would have been offering them 100s or million dollars to sign them. Heck AEW 1.4 million debut was TNT highest show debut in 5 years. 


Going by this theory NXT should be doing more then 900,000 viewers when they had Raw people on the show. The fact NXT doing the ratings it is despite all the push it's gotten by WWE last few months. Totally kills your theory. But hey troll on my friend.


----------



## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

AEW has been beating NXT for the majority of its existence.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Gh0stFace said:


> Well, you clearly do since you're taking time of your day to write me an essay. Now besides that, you said a lot of perfectly valid things which I agree with. Seeing Bret Hart was what got me into wrestling as a kid. And the way WWE fucked him over left me with a bad taste in a mouth but regardless I continued to watch the product.
> 
> I have to disagree as far what drives the bottom line. The better you treat your employees, the more engaged and motivated they are to work, the better the product is, and the more the shareholders benefit. Look into why Southwest Airlines has been one of the most profitable airline companies in an unprofitable industry for 45 years in a row. They don't agree with "customer is always right" -- in fact they vehemently disagree with this and they put their employees first and yet they have the most loyal customers. During a period when airlines weren't making money, Southwest Airlines customers were sending the company CHECKS because of how much they loved the service.
> 
> *I'm bringing them up because AEW treats wrestlers in similar vain, along with the fans. WWE has been around for 48 years. AEW has barely been around for 1 year. In what universe can you make valid comparisons given lack of data?*


This last paragraph is contradictory. You first claim that AEW treats their independent contractors great compared to WWE. Then go on to say AEW hasn't been around long enough to make comparisons due to lack of data. In what universe can you claim AEW is this benevolent nice company when they're so young?


----------



## lagofala (Jun 22, 2016)

Wrestling fans want an alternative, until they realise they don't want too much change.

AEW needs to find that sweet spot and they still have my goodwill. Growing pains should be expected.


----------



## BigCy (Nov 10, 2012)

Gh0stFace said:


> AEW even in it's infancy is run way better than WWE. Especially in terms of how the wrestlers are treated. Just read Ashley Massro's account of what she went through with WWE to see how WWE treats it's "stars" (https://wweconcussionlawsuitnews.co...19/05/Ashley-Massaro-Affidavit-Clean-11.1.pdf). The fact of the matter is, WWE only cares about the bottom line. AEW at least makes an effort to listen to criticisms and listens to fans while Vince has been recorded saying "fuck them" in regards to fan's opinions. This is why I don't take WWE lackeys seriously.


I actually read that whole thing and I am even more disgusted with WWE than I was before. I feel so bad for this woman. This might sound crazy but I find it "interesting" that when someone ends up outing the E for their nasty work "ethics" they either end up dead (or "suicided") or they change their tune almost immediately after. I don't think anyone realizes just how nasty these people are. Conspiracy theories or not.


----------



## NathanMayberry (Oct 11, 2019)

imthegame19 said:


> Nope there's never been a brand new wrestling company start out at Raw or Smackdown ratings.


AEW hasn't come close to Raw or Smackdown's ratings.



> If anyone believed they would do that then networks would have been offering them 100s or million dollars to sign them. Heck AEW 1.4 million debut was TNT highest show debut in 5 years.


No TV Exec is paying hundreds of millions for a show getting 600 thousand viewers only 10 weeks after getting 1.4 million.



> Going by this theory NXT should be doing more then 900,000 viewers when they had Raw people on the show. The fact NXT doing the ratings it is despite all the push it's gotten by WWE last few months. Totally kills your theory. But hey troll on my friend.


There is no theory just facts. NXT on USA is a different situation entirely from what TNT and AEW are doing. Do you see USA USA USA USA USA plastered all over NXT? NXT doesn't need to anything, but be NXT.

AEW, on the other hand, has this massive chip on its shoulder. It has to win otherwise it will be viewed as and given the respect of a TNAesque show among the fans, and will not get the massive TV deal that would allow it to grow.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

NathanMayberry said:


> AEW hasn't come close to Raw or Smackdown's ratings.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes AEW hasn't come close to matching Raw or Smackdown. It was never expected to for a long time. Again as seen with NXT, having a new show with a lot of new wrestlers people don't know. You arent expext to do Raw and Smackdown ratings . When those shows both been on 20 plus years and people have watched their roster for last 5-10 plus years.


Again that is exactly why they didn't get paid 200-250 million a year from a tv network. If AEW was expected to be doing these big tv numbers after 2 and half momths in. Well networks would have been offering them at least 100 million plus. They have the deal they do because ups and downs where expected. Just like NXT has also lost 600,000 viewers since they debut. How do you think USA felt spending 50 million a year on a show that did only 590 something viewers one week?


I dunno why I'm bothering talking to a fanboy like you. WWE brought the war to AEW. WWE released press release to remind people it's marathon and not a sprint after they lost the ratings week one lol. Wouldnt that be a chip on their shoulder too? Lol. They put Raw and Smackdown superstars on NXT. They put NXT wrestlers on Smackdown on Raw. They even had Raw/Smackdown wrestlers job to NXT guys on tv and at Survivor Series.


They are doing everything they can to make NXT guys look like big stars. So that people will watch NXT more and not watch AEW. Yet you are gonna complaining about running a few using headlines about them beating NXT to fire back? That's ridiculous.


AEW doesn't have to win all they have to do is worry about their show and their ratings. If three years from now Raw/Smackdown are doing 2 million viewers and say NXT is doing 1.5 million viewers by then. If AEW doing 1.4 million viewers. Their will be plenty of networks offering them big money tv deal.


That's because their is major value in show that's on just about every week (no off-season or reruns) and brings your network over million viewers every week in this day and age . It doesn't matter who's winning. That only matters to fans and maybe companies for pride. But doesn't matter when it comes to making money.


The real question is if Raw doing 1.8-1.9 and Smackdown is doing 2.1 million or whatever a few years from now. If AEW doing 1.5-1.6 rating. Do network decide to take AEW over WWE. Because they can get them for 100-125 million a year or whatever. Instead of paying WWE 250 million plus a year? That is what WWE is trying to avoid and why Vince is doing what he can to stunt their growth. By putting NXT up against them in the first place.

Vince is ruthless business man and this is just another example of that. Which is why dirt sheet reporters where laughing about this. Cuz in the 90s he cried and complained about WCW moving to Monday to hurt WWE. Now WWE is trying to do same thing to AEW. So like I told you before it doesn't matter what AEW says. Vince is trying to kill their company or at least stop it from growing. Making jokes or including article quotes in their commercial doesn't have impact on anything. Besides saying we aren't afraid you and standing up to the bully that WWE is.


----------



## Sbatenney (Jul 3, 2018)

Okay clearly they are trying to go at NXT, their ads show that and well for those saying that they aren't. Well what was the whole Cody smashing Triple H's throne thing if not an act of war against NXT/WWE. Only now that NXT is growing with causal fans is some AEW fans claiming ithey aren't trying to make a war. Then explain why every AEW show, they is about half a dozen shots at the WWE/NXT?


----------



## TheDraw (Jun 27, 2019)

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> AEW didn't set out to compete, they set out to be an alternative. They wanted to be a wrestling show that wasn't WWE for the fans and another place to go for frustrated WWE wrestlers. The drop from WWE to RoH or Impact is quite far and wanted to be that gap but with a better budget with better pay. WWE decided to counter produce AEW by taking NXT off the network and putting them against Dynamite. WWE's goal is to kill AEW not compete. They were going to put NXT against Dynamite regardless of what night they put it on.





Moho Hwoarang said:


> IMO,the most thing that damaged AEW that it was presented as an equal or competitor for WWE and NXT.
> 
> I think NXT at the moment is the best show WWE produce so I won't say that AEW can't even face the minor show or something like that.
> 
> ...


LMAO. WWE isn't even a wrestling company anymore. They might be the top dog but they produce unwatchable wrestling. Yes even NXT imo. You know things are shit when stiffs like Johny Gargono are praised as something special instead of being low midcarders like they should be.

The goal for me is entertainment and WWE has insulted my intelligence more than entertained me by far.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Yall too funny with this ?.

imma continue watching AEW till the day it dies. Moxley, MJF, Darby, Cody, Jericho, PAC all top talent.

keep bringing up the lower card tho.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

optikk sucks said:


> Yall too funny with this ?.
> 
> imma continue watching AEW till the day it dies. Moxley, MJF, Darby, Cody, Jericho, PAC all top talent.
> 
> keep bringing up the lower card tho.


I agree when people bash AEW talent it's guys like Marko Stunt, Orange Cassidy or other guys who barely wrestle or on Dynamite. That's saying 24-7 title guys when talking about Raw or Smackdown.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

BigCy said:


> I actually read that whole thing and I am even more disgusted with WWE than I was before. I feel so bad for this woman. This might sound crazy but I find it "interesting" that when someone ends up outing the E for their nasty work "ethics" they either end up dead (or "suicided") or they change their tune almost immediately after. I don't think anyone realizes just how nasty these people are. Conspiracy theories or not.


I’ve said the same thing for years. Really odd coincidences follow WWE.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

imthegame19 said:


> I agree when people bash AEW talent it's guys like Marko Stunt, Orange Cassidy or other guys who barely wrestle or on Dynamite. That's saying 24-7 title guys when talking about Raw or Smackdown.


The funny thing is Ricochet and Cedric got greater pushes ?

not only that, but bland Kofi actually became a world champ ?

No promotion is without its faults but bashing Aew like they think it’ll help WWE in some way is hilarious.


----------



## Derek30 (Jan 3, 2012)

AEW got serious in the lead in to Full Gear. Lots of good stuff but it's been pretty weak since aside from Moxley/Jericho. They need to focus more on big storylines as opposed to stuff like Cody bouncing between feuds. On that front, MJF apparently hired Butcher and Blade to take out Cody but there's been no interaction between MJF and BB. He should have just had Wardlow OBLITERATE Cody as opposed to that. Would have legitimized Wardlow and given Cody more of a mountain to climb.

Also, for the love of God, Kenny needs a winning streak and some time to tell the casual audience who he is. All the hardcores know who he is and how good he can be but how would a casual see him as anything more than just a good wrestler at this point?

And stop it with this respect stuff. Young Bucks promo stating SCU will be over for Christams dinner regardless of the outcome is a horrendous way to build a match. Why on earth should I care about that match? I want grudges highlighting the biggest feuds on the show.


----------



## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

Sbatenney said:


> Okay clearly they are trying to go at NXT, their ads show that and well for those saying that they aren't. Well what was the whole Cody smashing Triple H's throne thing if not an act of war against NXT/WWE. Only now that NXT is growing with causal fans is some AEW fans claiming ithey aren't trying to make a war. Then explain why every AEW show, they is about half a dozen shots at the WWE/NXT?


Just to be clear it wasn't AEW taking shots at NXT. Meltzer confirmed that TNT was behind that commercial and AEW was not even aware.



optikk sucks said:


> Yall too funny with this ?.
> 
> imma continue watching AEW till the day it dies. Moxley, MJF, Darby, Cody, Jericho, PAC all top talent.
> 
> keep bringing up the lower card tho.


Most of the people are only attacking AEW because of some subconscious sense of loyalty they feel to the WWE after all the many years of their (mind) programming. They want to jump into AEW or WWE camps and act like the other side is the enemy, which is stupid IMO. At least AEW makes an effort to listen to the fans and goes out of their way to make the fans happy... here are examples:


----------



## LongPig666 (Mar 27, 2019)

Its almost like WWE and its fans are playing the victim already isn't it!



Moho Hwoarang said:


> IMO,the most thing that damaged AEW that it was presented as an equal or competitor for WWE and NXT.


No it wasnt. It was presented as an alternative main stream wrestling company on a day WWE didn't have a show on. NXT was thrust upon them by WWE counter programming their wednesday night slot.



> We were complaining about WWE destroying wrestlers' reputation and momentum but AEW did the same with The Elite putting over everyone.
> AEW was supposed to be what NXT is doing now,even when the stars lose like Finn Balor last night it’s done in a way where it doesn’t hurt them. But the end of AEW you had all the top guys getting beaten down and the crowd was just silent and rejecting Dark Order.(this is a quote from Internet)


Comparing how WWE have ruined wrestlers reputations with a booking choice for the last match of 2019 is a bit silly isnt it?



> AEW doesn't have a Cena,Hogan,Rock or Austin level star that can make you watch everyweek and draw for the company so much as these guys did but I think they really should start building Omega as the FOTC,he has the potential to reach high.


FOTC is an outdated idea!



> AEW should stop focusing about this war thing and just refresh the storylines and the divisions as I got to a level where all I care about are Moxley and Jericho.


Again, AEW didn't start any war they started a new business, and were not AWARE they needed to win anything despite not being ready. We have had 12 weeks of this new show and they have made massive waves and majorly impacted the wrestling world and yet you dont see Indy promotions, NJPW or Impact claiming someone has declared war on them. Say what you want about storylines or divisions but at least there is already improvements and thought processes behind each of those. Only watching a wrestling show because of a couple of stars are on it is weird.


----------



## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

Most of the people are only attacking AEW because of some subconscious sense of loyalty they feel to the WWE after all the many years of their (mind) programming. They want to jump into AEW or WWE camps and act like the other side is the enemy, which is stupid IMO. At least AEW makes an effort to listen to the fans and goes out of their way to make the fans happy... here are examples:












WWE just pretends to care about the fans (in similar vain that it pretends to care about it's workers.) They will never care to listen, in fact sometimes it seems like they do the exact opposite of what the fans want just to piss them off. Daniel Bryan was way overdue his WWE title and Main Event -- if it wasn't for the fans LITERALLY HIJACKING SHOWS to SCREAM IN VINCE'S EAR that Wrestlemania main event would've never happened. He was eliminated very early in that Rumble which ended in a chorus of boos. I just find it mind-boggling how WWE fans have become so sheep-like to the point that their identity is so deeply associated with WWE that anything opposing it or having the illusion of opposing it it completely destroys their ego. I would expect them to be more mature since their biggest demo is 55+, at least on NXT.


----------



## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

Ban wave for christmas gift?


----------



## Shaun_27 (Apr 12, 2011)

The "AEW didn't want to compete" people are hilarious. If you enter wrestling, you are competing with WWE. Also, Cody Rhodes smashed HHH's throne on the first-ever AEW PPV.


----------



## P Thriller (Jan 6, 2016)

If I could have a company that has the presentation of NXT, along with the in-ring style of NXT but with the promo freedom of AEW that would be amazing. Great promos is the only thing holding back NXT from being the perfect wrestling promotion. AEW however has several weak spots. Their women's division is horrible. They aren't booking their top stars correctly except maybe Mox and Jericho. Their tag division is slowly becoming a joke and people are catching on to how ridiculous that style of tag team wrestling is. Their storytelling is a little too convoluted. They have stable upon stable just thrown together. They have a very weak midcard. Their entrance music is terrible and the production and camera work seems to struggle a lot and their commentary isn't as good as Nigel and Ranallo either. 

These are all problems that I think can be fixed with more experience and acquiring more talent. The Revival would be an instant boost to that weak tag team division and if they could somehow land any sort of women talent that would help out immensely. But it is very concerning that their quality of show has dropped off already. They had years to plan their first month of TV, but now that they have to adapt and continue to come up with ideas on the fly they seem to be struggling and honestly they feel too much like main roster WWE at times. NXT is the show that feels like the true alternative. AEW needs to change up their presentation and style a bit. I hope they do well though because it is important for wrestlers to have that alternative, even if only for leverage and it is great to have a place where somebody can refresh their image when WWE isn't using them properly like The Revival.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Merry Christmas to me! This is going to be fun! 



NathanMayberry said:


> They clearly don't want to compete... It's funny they're saying this now that they're losing.


Yep. And you don't start up a wrestling promotion on basic cable without entering into the competitive sphere with Vince McMahon. Them's just the breaks. Anyone who believes what AEW says about not wanting to compete are being sold a carny line. 



NathanMayberry said:


> Based on the fact that 3 times the number of people choose to watch Raw and 4 times choose to watch Smackdown over AEW.
> 
> TNT is on in more homes than USA. They've put up billboards on Times Square and all over the USA. They had ad spots in previews for blockbuster movies and commercials all over the most watched basketball games every single week. If AEW was putting up this amazing show, it would be doing a lot better than it does now.


Bam! There it is. AEW's launch has been much colder than I anticipated before I saw what they were putting out. People bought the Dave Meltzer narrative of 500k for some reason. I don't know why you would pick up wrestling if you only expected it to do 500k if you're being sold on good, priority programming in a world where Raw and SmackDown usually do over 2 million people a piece. You want a slice of that pie -- not the crumbs. 



reyfan said:


> Considering how bored people get of shows these days that are older than a few seasons, it's quite worrying if a 25 year old show is doing better than a fresh new show less than 4 months old.


Another excellent point. I don't know why people keep pointing at longevity as a marker of how effective a show is going to do in the ratings. Fresh things beat old things all the time. 



validreasoning said:


> Yes and less people are watching live TV each year with tons of people dropping cable annually. 10 years from now it will probably be unheard of for any show to be doing 2+ million on cable weekly.
> 
> When Raw was averaging 6 million in 99-2000 top shows on ABC/CBS/NBC was doing far more viewers than now too. Finale of Seinfeld drew 70+ million viewers. Big Bang most watched show on network tv last decade did 18 million for it's finale this year.


For someone who names themselves "validreasoning," this wasn't very valid reasoning. No one was talking about Raw doing 6 million people. They're talking doing a poor number comparatively _today_. 800k is much smaller than 2 million. 



imthegame19 said:


> Did they want a War or WWE to put NXT up against them? No, were they going to stand up for themselves and fire back when Triple H called them piss ant Tee Shirt company. Well clearly yes. Before that AEW was very respectable to WWE in interviews etc.
> 
> 
> WWE put NXT head to head to start this war and AEW beat them. So they are gonna show off some headlines(remember these were article hheadlines not their words)and make sure people know about it. All they've done is fire back at WWE and say were not scared of you.
> ...


This is such a fan-boy response. NXT was always airing Wednesdays. The plan was always to monetize them, because Vince McMahon likes money. AEW may have rushed it up, but they're not hapless in all this. I don't think any serious commentator expected WWE to let them run unopposed. 

And of course AEW was going to win at first: they're fresh. The hardcores were galvanizing. Now it just looks like premature and arrogant bragging. 

The Young Bucks talk shit then can't handle it. And yes, they were negotiating with New Japan and WWE right up to the minute, which just goes to show how committed they are. This isn't about taking Tony Khan for a ride at all. 



imthegame19 said:


> Nope there's never been a brand new wrestling company start out at Raw or Smackdown ratings. If anyone believed they would do that then networks would have been offering them 100s or million dollars to sign them. Heck AEW 1.4 million debut was TNT highest show debut in 5 years.
> 
> 
> Going by this theory NXT should be doing more then 900,000 viewers when they had Raw people on the show. The fact NXT doing the ratings it is despite all the push it's gotten by WWE last few months. Totally kills your theory. But hey troll on my friend.


There's never been a wrestling promotion to debut with the capital of AEW. It was their strongest asset. There's never been a wrestling promotion in this situation, so you can't possibly use that defense of them. Them not doing as well as Raw or SmackDown (and now NXT, it seems) is a fact, but that there is some sort of history precedent to predict this? Bullshit. 

How does that theory make sense? NXT is the third tier brand for WWE. It's the spin-off of the spin-off. This is CSI: Denver or whatever to a lot of fans. I don't know why you would expect it to draw Raw ratings. It's really taking a sample of a sample of fans. 



DOTL said:


> AEW has been beating NXT for the majority of its existence.


They were expected to beat NXT. That's why NXT put their third week on against them and didn't promote hard. And now the better product is pulling ahead. 



imthegame19 said:


> Yes AEW hasn't come close to matching Raw or Smackdown. It was never expected to for a long time. Again as seen with NXT, having a new show with a lot of new wrestlers people don't know. You arent expext to do Raw and Smackdown ratings . When those shows both been on 20 plus years and people have watched their roster for last 5-10 plus years.
> 
> 
> Again that is exactly why they didn't get paid 200-250 million a year from a tv network. If AEW was expected to be doing these big tv numbers after 2 and half momths in. Well networks would have been offering them at least 100 million plus. They have the deal they do because ups and downs where expected. Just like NXT has also lost 600,000 viewers since they debut. How do you think USA felt spending 50 million a year on a show that did only 590 something viewers one week?
> ...


You sound like me talking at the start of the year when I thought this had a chance. Get with the bouncing ball, times change and facts come to light. 

I don't see why this whole "Raw has been on forever" thing keeps coming up. Being on TV for a long time does not mean that you are going to remain trendy. It has never been a factor. 

AEW's best chance was in the TV deals. If they could undercut Vince then they could have undercut the offers he was receiving and taken less to do comparatively as well. The thing is, though -- they're not doing as well, comparatively. They debuted with 1.4 million people, which was a number low by my expectations, as it basically was in line with people who were already interested in this thing before it got to TV. It has since dwindled down by about 600k. They are not making new fans. They are not impressing people. They are not expanding. They are going to hit that 30% retention rate and drop to about 420k by its all said and done, I think. Most people think this is shitty wrestling. They're not going to get those TV deals. Why would you think they would?

Do you think they are suddenly going to get a bigger star than Chris Jericho? Do you think that Kenny Omega is suddenly going to get younger? Do you think that the Cody/MJF feud a second time is going to be super-hot? I don't understand why you think that they will suddenly make 800k-1 million new fans, more than doubling what they have now. Raw has got more chance of adding that many people to their show, and what do you think the chances of that are?

People who wanted to see this have seen it. They've voted "no." That's why they only DVR or just don't watch. Their numbers now are not going to get them a better deal with TNT. 



Sbatenney said:


> Okay clearly they are trying to go at NXT, their ads show that and well for those saying that they aren't. Well what was the whole Cody smashing Triple H's throne thing if not an act of war against NXT/WWE. Only now that NXT is growing with causal fans is some AEW fans claiming ithey aren't trying to make a war. Then explain why every AEW show, they is about half a dozen shots at the WWE/NXT?


That's called counting your chickens. 



Gh0stFace said:


> Most of the people are only attacking AEW because of some subconscious sense of loyalty they feel to the WWE after all the many years of their (mind) programming. They want to jump into AEW or WWE camps and act like the other side is the enemy, which is stupid IMO. At least AEW makes an effort to listen to the fans and goes out of their way to make the fans happy... here are examples:


WWE does bullshit like this all the time. And people see through that too. 



LongPig666 said:


> Its almost like WWE and its fans are playing the victim already isn't it!


This might be a bad week to try and play that card, what with The Young Bucks not responding well to criticism and running off Twitter. Also, who is a WWE fan in 2019? Gross. 



LongPig666 said:


> No it wasnt. It was presented as an alternative main stream wrestling company on a day WWE didn't have a show on. NXT was thrust upon them by WWE counter programming their wednesday night slot.


Talk about playing the victim. NXT was on Wednesdays first. They were always going to be opposed anyway. A wrestling promoter would understand that. 



LongPig666 said:


> Comparing how WWE have ruined wrestlers reputations with a booking choice for the last match of 2019 is a bit silly isnt it?


Not really. You can call both horrible. This was WWE levels of bad conception with a TNA level of execution. It was gloriously shit. 



LongPig666 said:


> FOTC is an outdated idea!


"FOTC" is a WWE term. Yuck, who the fuck would use that? But the idea of having a top star is definitely not outdated. That's how wrestling works. It's only outdated because some people on the internet say it is? Nah, mate. This is what happens when you let fans book your shows for you. 



LongPig666 said:


> Again, AEW didn't start any war they started a new business, and were not AWARE they needed to win anything despite not being ready. We have had 12 weeks of this new show and they have made massive waves and majorly impacted the wrestling world and yet you dont see Indy promotions, NJPW or Impact claiming someone has declared war on them. Say what you want about storylines or divisions but at least there is already improvements and thought processes behind each of those. Only watching a wrestling show because of a couple of stars are on it is weird.


You don't get to call people weird for their viewing preferences. What is weird is that you think this show has gotten better, not excruciatingly worse.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

The Wood said:


> Merry Christmas to me! This is going to be fun!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for a long post of . It's Christmas eve. I'm not wasting my even reading this let alone replying. Dislike, complain and bitch about AEW all you want. It's going nowhere and there plenty of fans who enjoy it and look forward to it every week. So that's the bottom line and we don't care that it's not what you hoped it would be.


When I don't like something, I don't waste my time visiting a forum and complaining about it. I visit this forum because I like the show and like talking about with fans. I have no desire talking with haters or trolls on here. That's a waste of life for people who have actual loved


So find something better to do with your time then complaining, whinning and saying ridiculous stuff on a wrestling forum. Merry Christmas and I really hope you start to like AEW. Or find something better to do with your time. Because all you are doing right now is wasting your time and everyone elses.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

imthegame19 said:


> Thanks for a long post of . It's Christmas eve. I'm not wasting my even reading this let alone replying. Dislike, complain and bitch about AEW all you want. It's going nowhere and there plenty of fans who enjoy it and look forward to it every week. So that's the bottom line and we don't care that it's not what you hoped it would be.
> 
> 
> When I don't like something, I don't waste my time visiting a forum and complaining about it. I visit this forum because I like the show and like talking about with fans. I have no desire talking with haters or trolls on here. That's a waste of life for people who have actual loved
> ...


Don't tell other people what to do with their time, ace. Wrestling has and will continue to be a big part of my life, and that includes critiquing it when I feel it appropriate, and you don't get to censor me on that because of some self-righteous ownership you feel over the product. What you posted was a long way of saying "I don't have any retort, so I'm just going to try and dismiss _you_ instead." It's ad hominem, and it's unbecoming. Maybe you should consider cutting that shit out? 

And as for it not going anywhere? We'll see. I've said before that the Khans have the capital to keep this going as a vanity project for as long as they want. Shad could buy TV for them if he needed to. Do I foresee it? Not anymore. I'm anticipating big problems coming for them in early 2020. The Bucks seem to be crumbling. Tony Khan himself had a mini-meltdown at Randy Orton. Chris Jericho has spoken publicly about bringing up the shit that doesn't make sense in a meeting. Jim Ross calls the shit like he sees it, and people notice it and are calling for him to go instead of improvements to the product. There have been no major jumps since Double or Nothing launched the actual content of this thing. And we might just see the AEW World Champion walk into the Tokyo Dome and put over the former ace of New Japan Pro-Wrestling in something that would be lucky to be third match from the top, and you _bet_ they are going to get grilled by wrestlers from WWE, outside WWE, fans, and maybe even internally for letting that administrative nightmare go down. 

Ratings are dropping. PPV buys did not get a boost from television. NXT is overtaking them. WWE are about to enter WrestleMania season, and no matter what you think of them, they are no doubt going to be trying to pull some big moves on shows that are watched by the audience of AEW many times over. If their creative issues don't get resolved, and they continue to disgruntle the very "loyal" fans they have, the wheels could start coming off this thing _very_ fast. If Tony Khan starts getting hammered from the TNT side, the wrestler side, as well as on social media, how steadfast is his commitment to bring these people "alternate" pro-wrestling? Has this all been part of the long-term plan Shad Khan allegedly got Tony to show him? Did they anticipate all metrics going down this fast? The human element in this plan means that AEW is not permanent. 

Jim Cornette set the death clock of this thing's relationship with TNT for April 15. That seemed premature to me, but it's often eerie just how correct Cornette's prognostications are. I'm not willing to go all in with that bet myself, but holy shit if they aren't looking more and more like they might actually pull that off by the week. _Especially_ if the Tanahashi/Jericho thing happens and the fans, despite their external expression that wrestling is taken too seriously, feel somewhat betrayed and becomes the shit-storm I can envision it becoming (something I'm not even sure if Cornette is aware of). 

So, sure, talk about how they're not going anywhere. I didn't think so either. My concerns have always been about the future and it's inability to make a hot impression to allow that future to be fertile. More and more, however, they do their absolute best to beckon that future on. _No one_ likes The Dark Order stuff. Yet they continuously shove it down our throats. _No one_ likes the Brandi Rhodes stuff. Yet they continuously force that down our throats. And if they do something that causes tension on the top and/or backstage in creative? Yikes.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

The Wood said:


> Don't tell other people what to do with their time, ace. Wrestling has and will continue to be a big part of my life, and that includes critiquing it when I feel it appropriate, and you don't get to censor me on that because of some self-righteous ownership you feel over the product. What you posted was a long way of saying "I don't have any retort, so I'm just going to try and dismiss _you_ instead." It's ad hominem, and it's unbecoming. Maybe you should consider cutting that shit out?
> 
> And as for it not going anywhere? We'll see. I've said before that the Khans have the capital to keep this going as a vanity project for as long as they want. Shad could buy TV for them if he needed to. Do I foresee it? Not anymore. I'm anticipating big problems coming for them in early 2020. The Bucks seem to be crumbling. Tony Khan himself had a mini-meltdown at Randy Orton. Chris Jericho has spoken publicly about bringing up the shit that doesn't make sense in a meeting. Jim Ross calls the shit like he sees it, and people notice it and are calling for him to go instead of improvements to the product. There have been no major jumps since Double or Nothing launched the actual content of this thing. And we might just see the AEW World Champion walk into the Tokyo Dome and put over the former ace of New Japan Pro-Wrestling in something that would be lucky to be third match from the top, and you _bet_ they are going to get grilled by wrestlers from WWE, outside WWE, fans, and maybe even internally for letting that administrative nightmare go down.
> 
> ...


 I dunno why im wasting my time. This is my last post on thos nonsense. Like I said before AEW here to stay or at least for 3 to 4 years. The investment has already been made and it's not costing TNT much to have them to have them on . What do they have to replace them? There's a reason why they would be happy with 500,000 viewers. Because that's more then other shows on their network are doing.


If ratings drop below 500,000 long term TNT would move them to different night or time slot. They are getting too good of deal to flat out dump them. Even if they did there would be plenty of other small networks that would jump at them. It took Impact to be doing below 140,000 before nobody wanted them anymore..


Yes Shad Khan is worth 8.1 billion but let's not act like Tony Khan doesn't have millions and millions of dollars too. Hes got his own analytics company, high ranking job in Jaguars front office and Soccer team front office as well. If Carter where able to keep TNA alive as long as they did without nearly success AEW having and more big money contracts. Well AEW isn't going anywhere any time soon and that's all the matters. If doesn't matter to me. 


I think the product is good now and has a chance to be great once they get over some of the new tv show hiccups and learn from these mistakes. Remember this is low peak for AEW booking with them not building towards ppv. 


While as usual you are making bigger deal about all that social media stuff. After watching Being the Elite do the Young Bucks really looks like their crumbling. While Jericho telling he gave Lucha Bros advice is no big deal. Because they aren't use to being on weekly tv when things get nitpicked. Losers like Cornette who's living in 1995 who's one of AEW biggest haters opinion on anything AEW is was worthless as toilet paper you flushed this morning.


How about this Mr Wood. If AEW doesnt average 850,000 viewers 4 shows going into Revolution and fall out Dynamite after Revolution. Then i will leave the forum. If they do you can do us all a favor and leave the forum? Deal or too scared?


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

The XL 2 said:


> MJF, Jericho, Cody, Dustin, Moxley, Wardlow, and Omega should dominate their TV. They should be getting the most TV time, the most promo time, and they should be winning most of their matches in dominant fashion. That should be their nucleus. Pac, Hager, and Hangman are fine as strong midcarders. Everyone else is basically shit, unnecessary hires. All the money they spend on guys like Cutler, Janella, Stunt, Havoc, etc, could have been spend on getting guys like Eli Drake, Ryback, Wade Barrett, etc, real wrestlers who can get over and belong on a national promotion. They could have hired unknown guys to fill out their low midcard and enhancement spots for a fraction of what they spend on those goofs. They can still turn it around if they get a clue, but they've done a ton of damage with their shit booking and awful roster construction.


I couldn’t agree more. It baffles me that Eli Drake isn’t tearing it up every Wednesday night on TNT. The timing was PERFECT with him leaving Impact as AEW formed.

Killer Kross is the next one, they should money whip this dude and give him no choice. Have him attack Mox the Dynamite after Mox beats Jericho.


----------



## BigCy (Nov 10, 2012)

The Wood said:


> Don't tell other people what to do with their time, ace. Wrestling has and will continue to be a big part of my life, and that includes critiquing it when I feel it appropriate, and you don't get to censor me on that because of some self-righteous ownership you feel over the product. What you posted was a long way of saying "I don't have any retort, so I'm just going to try and dismiss _you_ instead." It's ad hominem, and it's unbecoming. Maybe you should consider cutting that shit out?
> 
> And as for it not going anywhere? We'll see. I've said before that the Khans have the capital to keep this going as a vanity project for as long as they want. Shad could buy TV for them if he needed to. Do I foresee it? Not anymore. I'm anticipating big problems coming for them in early 2020. The Bucks seem to be crumbling. Tony Khan himself had a mini-meltdown at Randy Orton. Chris Jericho has spoken publicly about bringing up the shit that doesn't make sense in a meeting. Jim Ross calls the shit like he sees it, and people notice it and are calling for him to go instead of improvements to the product. There have been no major jumps since Double or Nothing launched the actual content of this thing. And we might just see the AEW World Champion walk into the Tokyo Dome and put over the former ace of New Japan Pro-Wrestling in something that would be lucky to be third match from the top, and you _bet_ they are going to get grilled by wrestlers from WWE, outside WWE, fans, and maybe even internally for letting that administrative nightmare go down.
> 
> ...





imthegame19 said:


> I dunno why im wasting my time. This is my last post on thos nonsense. Like I said before AEW here to stay or at least for 3 to 4 years. The investment has already been made and it's not costing TNT much to have them to have them on . What do they have to replace them? There's a reason why they would be happy with 500,000 viewers. Because that's more then other shows on their network are doing.
> 
> 
> If ratings drop below 500,000 long term TNT would move them to different night or time slot. They are getting too good of deal to flat out dump them. Even if they did there would be plenty of other small networks that would jump at them. It took Impact to be doing below 140,000 before nobody wanted them anymore..
> ...


Strangely enough, I'm pretty much in the middle of these 2 posts. You both bring up some good points but I'm not in total agreement either way...I'll explain...

As usual @The Wood is coming up with strong logical arguments based in reality with his own solid interpretation of those metrics. Many of Woody's points can't honestly be debunked if they are given full thought and anyone has a sober look at what he posts analyzed from all sides. What I'm not convinced of yet and a good point @imthegame19 brings up is that it is still too soon to spell gloom and doom as it is true that AEW is still getting better numbers than the vast majority of TNT programming and the fact they (TNT) don't have to pay much to have it on is cause to think that they will let a lot more slide than would be a usual agreement, which would lead me to believe that they could get another full year or two before anything major would happen, whether that be discontinuing the show on national TV or being moved to a different slot, and that would be dependant of course how fast and/or how far they fall. Money is the bottom line for these industries and if they are making TNT a little money, they will stick around.

However, @The Wood also brings up great points that the writing is starting to show on the wall and cracks are starting to show. It can't be denied that AEW has lost around one half of their starting audience and numbers are showing a slow decline and if these numbers don't turn around then the scenarios will start to play out like he said. I am trying to have a positive outlook without being biased and I think 2020 will be the sink or swim year, if they can hold the numbers they have I think they will be around for awhile just based on the fact that TNT is not paying much for it and the ratings are still better than most of their programming, however, if they lose more and decline and bottom out at around 300-500k then I can see some hard changes coming in 2021, whether that be no longer on TV or a different time slot.

AEW has to be taking this into consideration and they most likely need to make changes to draw more fans or they will lose out in the end. Imo I think they need to maintain around a 650k-750k viewer base to tread water and come out a little ahead and that's pretty much where they are at now but they can't afford to lose more. If they start to average around 500k-650k then it could be a toss up on what happens but I think they will probably remain where they are but they would be in risky territory. Trends are noticeable too and if execs start seeing charts sloping downwards they will consider these facts too. But still as I stated its bottom line is making profit, as long as there is profit, there will be AEW. 

Bottom line....2020 NEEDS to be a good year for AEW if they want to continue in their current slot and network.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

BigCy said:


> Strangely enough, I'm pretty much in the middle of these 2 posts. You both bring up some good points but I'm not in total agreement either way...I'll explain...
> 
> As usual @The Wood is coming up with strong logical arguments based in reality with his own interpretation of those metrics. Many of his points can't honestly be debunked if they are given full thought and analyzed from all sides. What I'm not convinced of yet and a good point @imthegame19 brings up is that it is still too soon to spell gloom and doom as it is true that AEW is still getting better numbers than the vast majority of TNT programming and the fact they (TNT) don't have to pay much to have it on is cause to think that they will let a lot more slide than would be a usual agreement, which would lead me to believe that they could get another full year or two before anything major would happen, whether that be discontinuing the show on national TV or being moved to a different slot, and that would be dependant of course how fast and/or how far they fall. Money is the bottom line for these industries and if they are making TNT a little money, they will stick around.
> 
> ...


I think the bottom line is they have too many people making booking decisions which is why the show is inconsistent. The Bucks and Kenny have proven themselves to not be good at booking, and in the Bucks' case not good at anything. They need one booker, and so far it needs to be Cody. Tony needs to stop being friends and be a good business owner.


----------



## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

I THINK moving them to a different time slot could be the next move if ratings keep falling or staying under 700,000. Let them do 8-10 slot (central time) instead of 7-9...they'll compete one hour vs NXT and 7 minutes of their run time instead of 2 hours with them.


----------



## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

Lheurch said:


> I think the bottom line is they have too many people making booking decisions which is why the show is inconsistent. The Bucks and Kenny have proven themselves to not be good at booking, and in the Bucks' case not good at anything. They need one booker, and so far it needs to be Cody. Tony needs to stop being friends and be a good business owner.


I AGREE. CODY seems to be the ONLY one who books right, then again is he doing singles competitors? OR just books himself?


----------



## UncleWreckingball (Dec 25, 2019)

Moho Hwoarang said:


> IMO,the most thing that damaged AEW that it was presented as an equal or competitor for WWE and NXT.
> 
> I think NXT at the moment is the best show WWE produce so I won't say that AEW can't even face the minor show or something like that.
> 
> ...


Honestly , the quality of the wrestling is where AEW sets itself from the rest. I believe they have the ability to have some amazing tag matches, and can do more hardcore theme matches that squeaky clean wwe won't. I wanna see them doing cage matches and maybe even revamp a hardcore title for the company. As long as the wrestling comes first. Im not 


Moho Hwoarang said:


> IMO,the most thing that damaged AEW that it was presented as an equal or competitor for WWE and NXT.
> 
> I think NXT at the moment is the best show WWE produce so I won't say that AEW can't even face the minor show or something like that.
> 
> ...


sorry my feed was kicked off. Any ways I believe that wrestling should come first with AEW . I am not huge on storylines myself other the. When portrayed at putting the best against the best and seeing who's on top


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Chan Hung said:


> I AGREE. CODY seems to be the ONLY one who books right, then again is he doing singles competitors? OR just books himself?


The rumor is Cody books the single guys, Kenny books the women, and the Bucks book the tag teams. Not sure if that has been confirmed but the inconsistent nature of the product shows multiple people are booking it.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Chan Hung said:


> I THINK moving them to a different time slot could be the next move if ratings keep falling or staying under 700,000. Let them do 8-10 slot (central time) instead of 7-9...they'll compete one hour vs NXT and 7 minutes of their run time instead of 2 hours with them.


If AEW moves, I think 100% NXT moves too. AEW needs to improve their own product, not move time slots. That is just a Band-aid.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

BigCy said:


> Strangely enough, I'm pretty much in the middle of these 2 posts. You both bring up some good points but I'm not in total agreement either way...I'll explain...
> 
> As usual @The Wood is coming up with strong logical arguments based in reality with his own interpretation of those metrics. Many of his points can't honestly be debunked if they are given full thought and analyzed from all sides. What I'm not convinced of yet and a good point @imthegame19 brings up is that it is still too soon to spell gloom and doom as it is true that AEW is still getting better numbers than the vast majority of TNT programming and the fact they (TNT) don't have to pay much to have it on is cause to think that they will let a lot more slide than would be a usual agreement, which would lead me to believe that they could get another full year or two before anything major would happen, whether that be discontinuing the show on national TV or being moved to a different slot, and that would be dependant of course how fast and/or how far they fall. Money is the bottom line for these industries and if they are making TNT a little money, they will stick around.
> 
> ...


Agreed on everything.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Lheurch said:


> The rumor is Cody books the single guys, Kenny books the women, and the Bucks book the tag teams. Not sure if that has been confirmed but the inconsistent nature of the product shows multiple people are booking it.


Well, well, well...

I thought Kenny was booking himself!? That Cody was just being smart in making use of his time. That Cody had no say on Kenny’s career.

If that rumor is true, then you better believe Cody is still jealous over his time in NJPW compared to Kenny’s.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

Chan Hung said:


> I THINK moving them to a different time slot could be the next move if ratings keep falling or staying under 700,000. Let them do 8-10 slot (central time) instead of 7-9...they'll compete one hour vs NXT and 7 minutes of their run time instead of 2 hours with them.


Yeah if AEW does over million viewers in New Years day or other shows. With NXT being highlight/taped show or when not on. I could see TNT moving show to 8-10 6 to 8 months from now if ratings go in 500-600 range for a period of time.


----------



## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

The Wood said:


> Jim Cornette set the death clock of this thing's relationship with TNT for April 15. That seemed premature to me, but it's often eerie just how correct Cornette's prognostications are. I'm not willing to go all in with that bet myself, but holy shit if they aren't looking more and more like they might actually pull that off by the week. _Especially_ if the Tanahashi/Jericho thing happens and the fans, despite their external expression that wrestling is taken too seriously, feel somewhat betrayed and becomes the shit-storm I can envision it becoming (something I'm not even sure if Cornette is aware of).


The same Jim Cornette who said it would be impossible for Cody & Bucks alone to sell out a 10,000+ seat arena. Then after it sold out in less than an hour, listing off bunch of excuses then saying "I dare ya I double bog dare ya these muthafuckers they can't do it again due to the law of diminishing returns." He recently got proven wrong once again.

This is the same guy who screwed over Young Bucks out of their jobs and then went on social media to BURY THEM. AEW is karma slapping this old fart in the face.


----------



## red dead2 (Dec 15, 2017)

If this trend continues I doubt AEW will survive into 2021. It will be another FAILED wrestling experiment like TNA, GFW and others

Outside of Jericho, Moxley and Cody AEW have no emphasis on storytelling and character development. You really have no reason to watch the show. That is a huge part of the problem. 

The in-ring work is really bad as well. Too many spot-fests which turns off the average viewer. There needs to be a hook to the wrestling matches with good buildup and good in-ring storytelling which is absent. It's a real shame. I hope AEW can improve next year tho


----------



## Tony1973 (Dec 24, 2019)

Deathiscoming said:


> AEW is trash, and I say that as someone who doesn't even like NxT. Basically,
> 
> NxT is a bunch of vanilla midget workrate guys and a bunch of fuckin women...but they also have Matt Riddle, Damien Priest, Villain Dain and Keith Lee.
> 
> ...


If so, why isnt the better show touring and showing us?

Someone in aew draws, they just sold out their ppv and didnt have another show to piggyback off of


----------



## BigCy (Nov 10, 2012)

red dead2 said:


> If this trend continues I doubt AEW will survive into 2021. It will be another FAILED wrestling experiment like TNA, GFW and others
> 
> Outside of Jericho, Moxley and Cody AEW have no emphasis on storytelling and character development. You really have no reason to watch the show. That is a huge part of the problem.
> 
> The in-ring work is really bad as well. Too many spot-fests which turns off the average viewer. There needs to be a hook to the wrestling matches with good buildup and good in-ring storytelling which is absent. It's a real shame. I hope AEW can improve next year tho


Me too. Even though I'm a NJPW guy and will still have the wrestling I like, for the sake of the US wrestling scene and the business in general I want AEW to still be a thing many years to come. I think they will be smart enough to see the writing on the wall and I expect general improvements coming next year. If not well....they brought it on themselves.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

bdon said:


> Well, well, well...
> 
> I thought Kenny was booking himself!? That Cody was just being smart in making use of his time. That Cody had no say on Kenny’s career.
> 
> If that rumor is true, then you better believe Cody is still jealous over his time in NJPW compared to Kenny’s.


Cody has no say over Omega stuff. More storyline for main event angles and Cody angle. Cody sure has heck isn't telling Omega what to say in his promos and how to present himself.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

imthegame19 said:


> Cody has no say over Omega stuff. More storyline for main event angles and Cody angle. Cody sure has heck isn't telling Omega what to say in his promos and how to present himself.


Probably true, and probably a big reason why his stuff has fallen flat so far.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

Lheurch said:


> Probably true, and probably a big reason why his stuff has fallen flat so far.


Yeah you gotta wonder how much of Omega success in New Japan had to do with Gedo booking of him. With him coming up with storylines and ideas for things for him to say.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

imthegame19 said:


> Yeah you gotta wonder how much of Omega success in New Japan had to do with Gedo booking of him. With him coming up with storylines and ideas for things for him to say.


Unfortunately AEW seems to be comprised of mostly n00bs booking. Kenny and the Bucks seem bad at it. At least Cody had one of the best bookers ever as a father to learn from. I hope the others can learn from him.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

Lheurch said:


> Unfortunately AEW seems to be comprised of mostly n00bs booking. Kenny and the Bucks seem bad at it. At least Cody had one of the best bookers ever as a father to learn from. I hope the others can learn from him.


I think it's just learning experience for these guys. I'm confident Moxley/Jericho and Cody/MJF stuff will be great. Problem with that stuff right now. Is they have too much time to waste and dragging it out too much. Plus I do think Omega/Pac or Omega/Page stuff can be good. If Omega really focused and works with those guys to come up with some cool stuff to build up that feud.


It felt with Moxley feud, Omega focused more on what he wanted to do in the match. Then the actual angle or feud with them. So they incerted glass table spot, barb wire bat and broom etc. Because those were all spots planned for the match. While it seemed like Moxley came up with backstage thing yelling at Tony Khan and promo about match not counting towards W/L record. 


I think the last 3 weeks or so they've done a much better job with woman's division. Instead of showcasing random woman every week. They kinda picked certain ones to build up(Statlander, Baker, Shida, Kong, Nyla Rose, Big Swole with Riho) and did a great job with Kris Statlander.

I agree with the tag division though. It's super talented but booking of it has been a mess. There's no or very little story or feuds in tag division. Just random matches or random attacks. While they basically burned though all the match ups already. You can almost tell it's the Bucks booking it with focus so much just on matches and nothing else. After low ratings with Bucks in main event back to back weeks. I hope they learned from this and gotta make the Divison better.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

imthegame19 said:


> I think it's just learning experience for these guys. I'm confident Moxley/Jericho and Cody/MJF stuff will be great. Problem with that stuff right now. Is they have too much time to waste and dragging it out too much. Plus I do think Omega/Pac or Omega/Page stuff can be good. If Omega really focused and works with those guys to come up with some cool stuff to build up that feud.
> 
> 
> I think the last 3 weeks or so they've done a much better job with woman's division. Instead of showcasing random woman every week. They kinda picked certain ones to build up(Statlander, Baker, Shida, Kong, Nyla Rose, Big Swole with Riho) and did a great job with Kris Statlander.
> ...


The Bucks book like they work: no selling and hotshot everything. The way they have treated the Lucha Bros. has been abysmal. They do not understand promos and how to build up matches and make stars. They think putting 20 minute tag matches on every week will get people over. I really wanted The Dark Order to be something good after the vignettes they started having, but the angle last week was horrible. The Best Friends are horrible. I am trying really hard not to hate SCU, but where are the promos? Tell me WHY you are the best.

For the women, they really dropped the ball with Shida after having a few good weeks with her. She went from being ranked #1 a few weeks ago to nothing. She should be getting the title next week. As for Statlander, she has potential, but her promo consists of...poking someone in the nose? Ridiculous. I get Riho is not going to be heavy on promos but unlike someone like Asuka, she is not going to be believable yelling in Japanese since she is all smiley. Someone in the division needs to start delivering promos and being a badass. Brit is still green, Kong only has a few matches left in her likely but she is a badass and could give someone a good rub. They need to reboot the women's division and not give them as munch air time. Not because women should not be featured, but their roster is thin and they are going to burn through every possible match and have nowhere to go unless they slow down.


----------



## NondescriptWWEfan (May 9, 2017)

if they did fewer tag matches, better women's matches and better promos they could win in the ratings.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

imthegame19 said:


> I dunno why im wasting my time. This is my last post on thos nonsense. Like I said before AEW here to stay or at least for 3 to 4 years. The investment has already been made and it's not costing TNT much to have them to have them on . What do they have to replace them? There's a reason why they would be happy with 500,000 viewers. Because that's more then other shows on their network are doing.
> 
> 
> If ratings drop below 500,000 long term TNT would move them to different night or time slot. They are getting too good of deal to flat out dump them. Even if they did there would be plenty of other small networks that would jump at them. It took Impact to be doing below 140,000 before nobody wanted them anymore..
> ...


The difference between Carter and Khan is that Khan knows business and knows when to get out. He might have millions but he's not putting his entire bank account into this wrestling venture. If he's losing money year after year he will bow out because he's not stupid, and if he turns out to be stupid his dad will tell him to stop wasting his money.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Gh0stFace said:


> The same Jim Cornette who said it would be impossible for Cody & Bucks alone to sell out a 10,000+ seat arena. Then after it sold out in less than an hour, listing off bunch of excuses then saying "I dare ya I double bog dare ya these muthafuckers they can't do it again due to the law of diminishing returns." He recently got proven wrong once again.
> 
> This is the same guy who screwed over Young Bucks out of their jobs and then went on social media to BURY THEM. AEW is karma slapping this old fart in the face.


Cody and the Bucks didn't sell out a 10k arena alone. ROH couldn't have done it alone either. They had the GOAT, Chris Jericho and the hype of CM Punk debuting behind them. Without that they wouldn't even have come close.


----------



## kingfrass44 (Sep 19, 2019)

Cult03 said:


> The difference between Carter and Khan is that Khan knows business and knows when to get out. He might have millions but he's not putting his entire bank account into this wrestling venture. If he's losing money year after year he will bow out because he's not stupid, and if he turns out to be stupid his dad will tell him to stop wasting his money.


There is not much difference Carter and Khan
Two Nerd wrestling They have a rich father And zero experience In Management
Difference Just Because of his father's influence he was able to make a deal with tnt
Obviously, you will defend whatever you do aew


----------



## NathanMayberry (Oct 11, 2019)

TheDraw said:


> LMAO. WWE isn't even a wrestling company anymore. They might be the top dog but they produce unwatchable wrestling. Yes even NXT imo. *You know things are shit when stiffs like Johny Gargono are praised as something special instead of being low midcarders like they should be.*
> 
> The goal for me is entertainment and WWE has insulted my intelligence more than entertained me by far.


ummm Darby Allin, Orange Cassidy and the Dark Order feature pretty heavily on AEW and Gargano is more talented than all of them.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

Cult03 said:


> The difference between Carter and Khan is that Khan knows business and knows when to get out. He might have millions but he's not putting his entire bank account into this wrestling venture. If he's losing money year after year he will bow out because he's not stupid, and if he turns out to be stupid his dad will tell him to stop wasting his money.


Yes if they aren't doing good 3 or 4 years down the line. Then they might consider selling the company but they are going nowhere anytime soon and have had a very very successful first year. Average ticket sale was 6,200, average tv rating was 910,000 (only 804 since Full Gear tho), and average they averaged over 100,000 buys for the ppvs. 


They also got on TSN, IV4 and Fite tv weekly subscription for Dynamite. No matter what people want to admit that is a great first year for a wrestling company. Khan family is on there way to making their money back. Will it happen in 2020 like they hoped? Who knows but they aren't going anywhere any time soon. While Tony Khan loves wrestling and what he's doing right now. It's dream come true for him. So the company would really really have to fall on hard times for a while, for him sell or close the company.


That's so far away from reality right now that we shouldn't even be talking about it. But sadly every time AEW gets a bad rating for them(even tho it's good compared to TNT programming). We get all this doom and gloom talk and it's ridiculous. They aren't going anywhere and I fully expect 2020 to be a even stronger year for them. These guys all work very hard and love the business. They also listen to the fans(almost to a fault at times?). They will get back on track IMO.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

NathanMayberry said:


> ummm Darby Allin, Orange Cassidy and the Dark Order feature pretty heavily on AEW and Gargano is more talented than all of them.


Darby Allin yes and he's gonna be a star. Orange Cassidy is basically a manager for Best Friends especially on Dynamite. While Dark Order wrestled ONE match on Dynamite. Before last week we only seen 30 second clips(that people loved) building them up. While what we saw last week was only start to something. So I wouldn't called one match and one 3 or 4 minute beat down segment featured heavily.


----------



## BigCy (Nov 10, 2012)

Cult03 said:


> Cody and the Bucks didn't sell out a 10k arena alone. ROH couldn't have done it alone either. They had the GOAT, Chris Jericho and the hype of CM Punk debuting behind them. Without that they wouldn't even have come close.


Not sure which event you're referring to here. If it was All In then it was more The Elite as a collective and the fans yearning for something different. Since you mentioned Jericho I assume you meant one of the official AEW PPV's in which case I would agree to an extent that it was Jericho, Mox, and because it was something new and fresh and people still yearning for change. 

Absolutely agree about the CM Punk comment. This doesn't get mentioned near enough. I think their first big numbers were because people were expecting CM Punk and when guys like Young Bucks say stuff like "No CM Punk will NOT play The Librarian!" it implies that he will be around to some capacity. They also teased him coming a couple other times and playing off the rumors. It was smart from a business stand point but also set up false expectations and was kind of a dick move. I think when people realized he wasn't coming a lot of people checked out.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

kingfrass44 said:


> There is not much difference Carter and Khan
> Two Nerd wrestling They have a rich father And zero experience In Management
> Difference Just Because of his father's influence he was able to make a deal with tnt
> Obviously, you will defend whatever you do aew


Hmm. It's sad when people just post dumb stuff like this and run their mouth. Without actually doing any real research.

1.Tony Khan has business degree in Finance.

2.Senior Vice President of Football Technology & Analytics for Jaguars.

3.Vice Chairman and Director of Football Operations of Fulham F.C.[10] He oversees the identification, evaluation, recruitment, and signing of players for Fulham.[2][11] Khan assumed these responsibilities following a period of advising the football operations at the club, particularly in the areas of analytics and research.

4.Khan is also the owner and chairman of TruMedia Networks,[16][17] a Boston-based engineering firm specializing in innovative sports analytics solutions for leagues, franchises, and media partners across the athletic industry

5.Kevin Reilly head of TNT and Tony Khan are very good friends. There relationship is what got AEW tv deal. It had nothing to do with his father.


Yes Tony Khan sounds just like Dixie and has no management experience lol. Having his own company and management positions with NFL and Soccer teams doesn't matter I guess. Before Dixie got involved with TNA she was doing marketing and publicity. The only thing they have in common is rich father's and Tony father is worth 8 billion. Dixie father is just a healthy millionaire.


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## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

kingfrass44 said:


> There is not much difference Carter and Khan
> Two Nerd wrestling They have a rich father And zero experience In Management
> Difference Just Because of his father's influence he was able to make a deal with tnt
> Obviously, you will defend whatever you do aew


Except Dixie's father was worth less than $30 million and Tony's father went from washing dishes $1.20/hour to accumulating a net worth of more than $8 billion (4x of WWE). And Tony is knowledgeable in business as he holds a respectable position and just got an increased role with Jaguars.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

imthegame19 said:


> Hmm. It's sad when people just post dumb stuff like this and run their mouth. Without actually doing any real research.
> 
> 1.Tony Khan has business degree in Finance.
> 
> ...





Gh0stFace said:


> Except Dixie's father was worth less than $30 million and Tony's father went from washing dishes $1.20/hour to accumulating a net worth of more than $8 billion (4x of WWE). And Tony is knowledgeable in business as he holds a respectable position and just got an increased role with Jaguars.


Does any of this means he knows how to run a wrestling company though? Him being an accomplished businessman doesn't mean he knows how to run a wrestling company. That's all there really is to it. He's similar to Dixie because both bought their way into the wrestling business with no prior experience.


----------



## NathanMayberry (Oct 11, 2019)

imthegame19 said:


> Hmm. It's sad when people just post dumb stuff like this and run their mouth. Without actually doing any real research.
> 
> 1.Tony Khan has business degree in Finance.
> 
> ...


Wait so you want people to praise Tony Kahn for finishing school and getting jobs at the two sports teams his dad owns? Have you seen how bad Fulham and especially the Jaguars have been? 

Fulham fans openly mock him "Tony Kahn Wanks Dogs" and Jags fans don't even show up to games. He wouldn't have been hired by any football or soccer team in those positions.


----------



## NathanMayberry (Oct 11, 2019)

Gh0stFace said:


> Except Dixie's father was worth less than $30 million and Tony's father went from washing dishes $1.20/hour to accumulating a net worth of more than $8 billion (4x of WWE). And Tony is knowledgeable in business as he holds a respectable position and just got an increased role with Jaguars.


It's his dad's team, him getting an increased role doesn't mean he's even remotely competent at football operations. The Jaguars are a dumpster fire, so much so that its best player decided to stop playing for them and demand a trade. Jags fans aren't even excited about Tony Kahn's increased role.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

RapShepard said:


> Does any of this means he knows how to run a wrestling company though? Him being an accomplished businessman doesn't mean he knows how to run a wrestling company. That's all there really is to it. He's similar to Dixie because both bought their way into the wrestling business with no prior experience.


Vince McMahon didn't know how to run a wrestling company at one point either. I think the point is Tony Khan has education and been successful running his own business. While having high level front office jobs for two sports teams. His resume translates a lot better to running a wrestling company then Dixie ever did.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

imthegame19 said:


> Vince McMahon didn't know how to run a wrestling company at one point either. I think the point is Tony Khan has education and been successful running his own business. While having high level front office jobs for two sports teams. His resume translates a lot better to running a wrestling company then Dixie ever did.


Except Vince actually worked in the business with his father. So he actually had some basis to go off of. I mean the end of the day it's really hard to distant him from the Jacksonville Dixie insult. It doesn't mean Tony's a bad dude or businessman. But when it boils down to it he's only in the business because he's a fan with fuck you money.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Gh0stFace said:


> The same Jim Cornette who said it would be impossible for Cody & Bucks alone to sell out a 10,000+ seat arena. Then after it sold out in less than an hour, listing off bunch of excuses then saying "I dare ya I double bog dare ya these muthafuckers they can't do it again due to the law of diminishing returns." He recently got proven wrong once again.
> 
> This is the same guy who screwed over Young Bucks out of their jobs and then went on social media to BURY THEM. AEW is karma slapping this old fart in the face.


Lol, bitter much?

When did Cornette ever say they couldn’t sell out? The only thing I’ve heard him say is that it’s going to be harder and harder to do it as time goes on, which is exactly what’s happening.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

NathanMayberry said:


> Wait so you want people to praise Tony Kahn for finishing school and getting jobs at the two sports teams his dad owns? Have you seen how bad Fulham and especially the Jaguars have been?
> 
> Fulham fans openly mock him "Tony Kahn Wanks Dogs" and Jags fans don't even show up to games. He wouldn't have been hired by any football or soccer team in those positions.


Jaguars where also one win away from going to the Superbowl two years ago. So lets not act like they didn't have any success. They built up a great roster prior to this season. 


Sadly bad QB play has let the team down. We don't know if he would have been hired for other teams or not that's just speculation. 


I do know that other sports teams use his analytics company. Sports is so much about numbers and analytics these days. Especially sport like baseball and plenty of guys with Tony Khan knowledge have jobs like he has with sport teams. 


The whole point is Tony Khan got experience doing these jobs and running a company. This isn't Dixie who says hey dad I wanna buy this wrestling company can I have 250,000. There is actually a plan from day one. That is why they accomplished so much more then any wrestling company has it's first year.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

RapShepard said:


> Except Vince actually worked in the business with his father. So he actually had some basis to go off of. I mean the end of the day it's really hard to distant him from the Jacksonville Dixie insult. It doesn't mean Tony's a bad dude or businessman. But when it boils down to it he's only in the business because he's a fan with fuck you money.


He worked with his dad for about 10 years and WWE then wasn't what it would become. Vince changed the game and did it with much much less experience then other promoters during that time.

It works both ways without Vince daddy owning a wrestling company. He would have never gotten the opportunity. Just like Tony Khan wouldn't have gotten the opportunity if his dad wasn't billionaire. The point is Tony Khan has knowledge of wrestling and is very smart and successful. He has guys like Cody/Dustin who grew up in wrestling business by his side. He has Jim Ross who's been in the business forever working with him as well. 


Dixie had nowhere near education, business experience or even wrestling knowledge when she bought TNA. Tony Khan background and situation is a lot closer to Vince then Dixie. But hey it's fun calling him Jacksonville Dixie so let's push negative nonsense and do that.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

imthegame19 said:


> He worked with his dad for about 10 years and WWE then wasn't what it would become. Vince changed the game and did it with much much less experience then other promoters during that time.
> 
> It works both ways without Vince daddy owning a wrestling company. He would have never gotten the opportunity. Just like Tony Khan wouldn't have gotten the opportunity if his dad wasn't billionaire. The point is Tony Khan has knowledge of wrestling and is very smart successful. Dixie had nowhere near education, business experience or even wrestling knowledge when she bought TNA. Tony Khan background and situation is a lot closer to Vince then Dixie. But hey it's fun calling him Jacksonville Dixie so let's push negative nonsense and do that.


Oh no doubt Vince wouldn't have owned a promotion if his dad wasn't a promoter. But that's still having a wrestling background. 

No matter how you try to put it though Kahn is closer to Dixie. They both bought their way into a business they had no background or experience working in.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

RapShepard said:


> Oh no doubt Vince wouldn't have owned a promotion if his dad wasn't a promoter. But that's still having a wrestling background.
> 
> No matter how you try to put it though Kahn is closer to Dixie. They both bought their way into a business they had no background or experience working in.



Dixie bought a company that was already started by other people. Just like Vince bought his dad company. Just like Ted Turner bought or created WCW with no experience. Tony Khan started his wrestling company. He's the only one who did that. But yes Vince was only one having some experience in wrestling prior to being owner. But Tony Khan probably has more knowledge of wrestling then Vince did at the point Vince took over WWE.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

imthegame19 said:


> Dixie bought a company that was already started by other people. Just like Vince bought his dad company. Just like Ted Turner bought or created WCW with no experience. Tony Khan started his wrestling company. He's the only one who did that. But yes Vince was only one having some experience in wrestling prior to being owner.*But Tony Khan probably has more knowledge of wrestling then Vince did at the point Vince took over WWE.*


You don't even believe that lol. You're trying to compare someone's factoid knowledge to that of somebody who was actually working in the business behind the scenes. 

Again no matter which way you want to slice it Kahn is going to get Dixie comparisons because they used their fathers money to strong arm their way into a business they had no previous work in.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

RapShepard said:


> You don't even believe that lol. You're trying to compare someone's factoid knowledge to that of somebody who was actually working in the business behind the scenes.
> 
> Again no matter which way you want to slice it Kahn is going to get Dixie comparisons because they used their fathers money to strong arm their way into a business they had no previous work in.


Yes their knowledge isn't the same thing I understand that. Vince saw how business worked and was there day to day. But again that was very different time and very different then what he created.

But Tony Khan knowledge of wrestling from being a hardcore fan for 30 years shouldn't be brushed off either. He clearly loves wrestling and as a fan knows what fans love about wrestling. His memory of great angles and story lines etc. While he has experience working with alpha males and high priced athletes. He has had to make tough decisions etc working with these althetes.


Who knows how being a hardcore fan and working in Soccer and Football front office translates to wrestling. But again you can't even come close to comparing him and Dixie Carter. When you look at what Tony Khan knowledge of wrestling, experience in sports and business. Compared to what Dixie Carter experience was at the time she took over TNA. Seriously Tony Khan was able to get a tv deal with TNT. When AEW didn't even do their first show. That's amazing when you think about it.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

imthegame19 said:


> Yes their knowledge isn't the same thing I understand that. Vince saw how business worked and was there day to day. But again that was very different time and very different then what he created.
> 
> But Tony Khan knowledge of wrestling from being a hardcore fan for 30 years shouldn't be brushed off either. He clearly loves wrestling and as a fan knows what fans love about wrestling. His memory of great angles and story lines etc. While he has experience working with alpha males and high priced athletes. He has had to make tough decisions etc working with these althetes.
> 
> ...


When people compare him to Dixie it's not because he's considered an air head. It's because he's a rich fan who spent a shit ton of his fathers money to become a wrestling promoter, just like Dixie did.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

RapShepard said:


> When people compare him to Dixie it's not because he's considered an air head. It's because he's a rich fan who spent a shit ton of his fathers money to become a wrestling promoter, just like Dixie did.


I know that. But that's lazy and unfair. If you are gonna just use that to compare the two. They fandom is way different(Dixie was way more casual fan)Tony Khan has a actual plan for success and is realistic. Beyond all his prior knowledge and experience in business and sports. His plan isn't going back daddy every few months or year for more money. He doesn't have think they could buy WWE one day and Tony Khan dad actually has the money to unlike Dixie father. There's way more differences between the two then the two things that are simular.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

imthegame19 said:


> Yes if they aren't doing good 3 or 4 years down the line. Then they might consider selling the company but they are going nowhere anytime soon and have had a very very successful first year. Average ticket sale was 6,200, average tv rating was 910,000 (only 804 since Full Gear tho), and average they averaged over 100,000 buys for the ppvs.
> 
> 
> They also got on TSN, IV4 and Fite tv weekly subscription for Dynamite. No matter what people want to admit that is a great first year for a wrestling company. Khan family is on there way to making their money back. Will it happen in 2020 like they hoped? Who knows but they aren't going anywhere any time soon. While Tony Khan loves wrestling and what he's doing right now. It's dream come true for him. So the company would really really have to fall on hard times for a while, for him sell or close the company.
> ...


You’ve said they’re not going anywhere so many times, I think you are trying to convince yourself. 



imthegame19 said:


> Vince McMahon didn't know how to run a wrestling company at one point either. I think the point is Tony Khan has education and been successful running his own business. While having high level front office jobs for two sports teams. His resume translates a lot better to running a wrestling company then Dixie ever did.


That remains to be seen. Th



imthegame19 said:


> Dixie bought a company that was already started by other people. Just like Vince bought his dad company. Just like Ted Turner bought or created WCW with no experience. Tony Khan started his wrestling company. He's the only one who did that. But yes Vince was only one having some experience in wrestling prior to being owner. But Tony Khan probably has more knowledge of wrestling then Vince did at the point Vince took over WWE.


You’d think Khan would display some of this alleged knowledge.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

The Wood said:


> You’ve said they’re not going anywhere so many times, I think you are trying to convince yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol they aren't going anywhere. Yet trolls and idiots somehow think they are. So I gotta remind them of how dumb they are sounding. Yes Tony Khan has shown none of that knowledge. You seem to forget how much people enjoyed what the company was doing even going into Full Gear. All ppvs or BR live shows have all been highly received by most. While most like t.v. going before Full Gear too. Just because your own personal opinion is trash doesn't mean he doesn't know what's good.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

imthegame19 said:


> Lol they aren't going anywhere. Yet trolls and idiots somehow think they are. So I gotta remind them of how dumb they are sounding. Yes Tony Khan has shown none of that knowledge. You seem to forget how much people enjoyed what the company was doing even going into Full Gear. All ppvs or BR live shows have all been highly received by most. While most like t.v. going before Full Gear too. Just because your own personal opinion is trash doesn't mean he doesn't know what's good.


We’ll see. They are a few bad weeks away from potentially becoming an administrative nightmare. Adversity introduces people to themselves. Tony Khan the promoter might be meeting himself very soon.

I don’t give a fuck what the internet bubble claims to love about AEW. I make up my own mind. And I look at data. I’m not going to crunch the numbers again, but All Out had something like a 30% retention rate from Double or Nothing. The TV ratings are down significantly. That’s what most people willing to give this a chance think of it. A few people on the internet, many of whom are convinced that anyone outside their bubble know who Kenny Omega and The Young Bucks are (for example), aren’t going to overpower my tastes and common sense.

If you want to talk about the tastes of many modern wrestling fans, keep in mind that most of these people have been watching WWE until very recently, because it’s all they’ve had available. Yah.


----------



## The Masked Avenger (Apr 18, 2018)

Jesus, nothing but shit posters and chicken littles on these boards nowadays.


----------



## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

The Wood said:


> They were expected to beat NXT. That's why NXT put their third week on against them and didn't promote hard. And now the better product is pulling ahead.


But is it? After reviewing the numbers, i know now that NXT isn't growing all that much. It's pretty much leveled off. AEW is, however, bleeding viewers. That means that it's more of an issue of what AEW is not doing that what NXT has accomplished.


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

AEW has a steep climb ahead to ever be a serious threat to WWE Raw or Smackdown in the ratings. Right now they're being beaten in the ratings by WWE's 3rd best brand, NXT. They have a lot of work to do.


----------



## Seth Grimes (Jul 31, 2015)

Gh0stFace said:


> Only thing cool about NXT is Rippley, Adam Cole (fn traitor should've came to AEW with his bullet club friends... along with Fin Balor -- fn accepting a demotion instead joining his bullet club family -- Cole & Balor are traitors) and maybe Keith Lee & Roderick Strong... ooo and Matt Riddle! Matt Riddle is my legit favorite. I think he would be better in AEW along with Cole & Balor.
> 
> Khan's have 4x more money than McMahon's. They haven't been in business in 1 year and already racked up all wins in key demos except for 1 week. This is embarrassing for NXT who's been around for a couple of years.


I'll translate this

"NXT sucks! They have shit wrestlers! But all the top guys should go to AEW, cause AEW has such a thin roster, that people I'm trying hard to shit on would instantly be the best in my favourite company. Wait did I just accidentally admit that NXT has a better roster? :/"


----------



## Seth Grimes (Jul 31, 2015)

TheDraw said:


> Traitor? Cole doesnt owe AEW a damn thing. This is why AEW fans have such a bad reputation....


TheDraw turning face wtf


----------



## Sir Linko (Oct 10, 2019)

Holy fucking hell. As a huge AEW mark who literally only watches AEW unless I catch RAW and force myself to try and get into NXT because I hear everyone loving it (sorry, I can't get into it) I am so tired of the AEW fans that wont let anyone talk about AEW without trying to suck its dick first.

Jesus man - I love AEW and I want it to succeed and I enjoy 90% of what they do. I also want WWE to succeed and I enjoy about 10% of what they do.

Also really annoyed by the ones that hate AEW so much that them just existing is enough to make them throw their feces like the monkeys they are at every post being positive ever about them.

There are always going to be logical and illogical reasons as to why ratings plummet for either show. But facts are simple. I don't have to watch NXT to know that last week's show was better than AEW's even though AEW's show was very very solid.

NXT has a TakeOver caliber show which is a very heavy card with some great culminations.

AEW had another show trying to build some no names and to stories in the future. AEW tried to leave on a cliffhanger and yes it wasn't that great. It was decent but the majority didn't like it. Either way AEW was a solid show - which is fine.

Anytime AEW / NXT drop significantly they both seem to pop right back up. AEW seemed to get hit harder by certain things but got bumped right back up the next week. Once the bump-up stops happening and AEW drops below 500k (TNT's mark) then we're talkiing about trouble to the AEW fans.

Otherwise - both shows are good. Some weeks AEW is better, some weeks NXT is better. Fans watching both and not RAW / Smackdown is a win in wrestling's book.


----------



## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

An interesting thing to keep an eye on will be what Ian Rappoport reported on the NFL Network (and Sports Illustrated further reported on): that Tony Khan will be taking on a much more substantial role with the Jacksonville Jaguars in 2020 and beyond.

The club fired its top executive, Tom Coughlin, and Tony is expected to more or less become CEO or COO — in other words, step up into a role running day-to-day operations as they completely retool the franchise.

There’s no way that won’t take up a lot more of his time. The NFL is the family’s chief interest and that’s not just a show-up-on-Sundays-and-shake-a-few-hands kind of job. Being at the top, or high in the operation, of an NFL franchise is an all-consuming type of thing.

That would mean Tony will have a lot less time to spend on AEW matters. Doesn’t mean he will pull out his money or lose interest, but he won’t have the presence that he has had thus far. Maybe he’ll hire someone to handle that for him or maybe the Elite will be running business as well as wrestling matters (which I’m not sure they have anyone qualified to do).

What does it mean? We don’t know for sure, but as noted it’s probably the most impactful development going into 2020 and should be watched carefully as we get glimpses behind the curtain on AEW operations going forward.


----------



## Gh0stFace (Oct 10, 2019)

Seth Grimes said:


> I'll translate this
> 
> "NXT sucks! They have shit wrestlers! But all the top guys should go to AEW, cause AEW has such a thin roster, that people I'm trying hard to shit on would instantly be the best in my favourite company. Wait did I just accidentally admit that NXT has a better roster? :/"


Their top wrestler was cool and best friends with AEW VP's (go back to BTE episode #2 ... THE BEGINNING of the show which launched Young Bucks to stardom)


----------



## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

RapShepard said:


> You don't even believe that lol. You're trying to compare someone's factoid knowledge to that of somebody who was actually working in the business behind the scenes.


Vince didn't knew who Jushin Liger was when he already worked on a show with him back in the day. Vince doesn't have a clue about wrestling outside his little bubble and we have tons of examples to back it up.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

V-Trigger said:


> Vince didn't knew who Jushin Liger was when he already worked on a show with him back in the day. Vince doesn't have a clue about wrestling outside his little bubble and we have tons of examples to back it up.


What's your point? Knowing wrestling factoids is not as beneficial as literally watching somebody run a promotion. It's very well known that Vince lives in a bubble. But the notion that Tony Kahn is better equipped to run a promotion because he's well trained in factoids is laughable.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

V-Trigger said:


> Vince didn't knew who Jushin Liger was when he already worked on a show with him back in the day. Vince doesn't have a clue about wrestling outside his little bubble and we have tons of examples to back it up.


Japan is a bubble, and I like Japan. Japanese promotions name themselves nationally, US promotions name themselves globally. That is not an accident.


----------



## NathanMayberry (Oct 11, 2019)

RapShepard said:


> What's your point? Knowing wrestling factoids is not as beneficial as literally watching somebody run a promotion. It's very well known that Vince lives in a bubble. But the notion that Tony Kahn is better equipped to run a promotion because he's well trained in factoids is laughable.


The only thing Tony Kahn is better at Vince is telling the fans what they want to hear.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

NathanMayberry said:


> The only thing Tony Kahn is better at Vince is telling the fans what they want to hear. Which is the easiest thing to do.
> 
> Tony Kahn however, isn't competing against Vince, he's going H 2 H with HHH. And there's no chance in hell he has more Wrestling knowledge than him.


I wouldn't doubt Kahn has more knowledge than HHH in the encyclopedia sense of who main eventer what and shit like that. But nah he certainly doesn't have more knowledge when it comes to how things really operate in the world of wrestling.


----------



## kingfrass44 (Sep 19, 2019)

NathanMayberry said:


> The only thing Tony Kahn is better at Vince is telling the fans what they want to hear. Which is the easiest thing to do.
> 
> Tony Kahn however, isn't competing against Vince, he's going H 2 H with HHH. And there's no chance in hell he has more Wrestling knowledge than him.


HHH Not more Wrestling knowledge
you wwe fanboys


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Tony Khan can't decide on a booker. I don't trust his promotional tactics at all. His connections through the Jaguars and Fulham/daddy's money got him to rub shoulders and I'm sure he's a well-articulated and nice guy, but now that they have got this far, he's been exposed as pretty naive.


----------



## BigCy (Nov 10, 2012)

The Wood said:


> Tony Khan can't decide on a booker. I don't trust his promotional tactics at all. His connections through the Jaguars and Fulham/daddy's money got him to rub shoulders and I'm sure he's a well-articulated and nice guy, but now that they have got this far, he's been exposed as pretty naive.


I really want to be a fly on the wall backstage at AEW when Khan talks to everyone. I think they all have a lot of potential but I really don't think they know how to function as a unit. I almost think Khan is just there to smile and nod and the "EVP's" are the ones booking everything willy nilly and off the cuff. These questions need answered. Is Khan filtering any of this stuff? Does Khan make the final decisions or do the "EVP's" just do whatever they want? 

I think I've said this enough already but they need some organization in their hiearchy, granted I don't know what they're doing but to me when I see it I see an uncolaborated product that is all over the place and doesn't know what it wants to be. I think it's because the "EVP's" all make decisions separately from each other instead of as a collective unit. I think in 2020 they have to figure something out and have a cohesion to their product if they want to get more eyeballs and have a long term sustainable product on national TV at a prime time slot.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

BigCy said:


> I really want to be a fly on the wall backstage at AEW when Khan talks to everyone. I think they all have a lot of potential but I really don't think they know how to function as a unit. I almost think Khan is just there to smile and nod and the "EVP's" are the ones booking everything willy nilly and off the cuff. These questions need answered. Is Khan filtering any of this stuff? Does Khan make the final decisions or do the "EVP's" just do whatever they want?
> 
> I think I've said this enough already but they need some organization in their hiearchy, granted I don't know what they're doing but to me when I see it I see an uncolaborated product that is all over the place and doesn't know what it wants to be. I think it's because the "EVP's" all make decisions separately from each other instead of as a collective unit. I think in 2020 they have to figure something out and have a cohesion to their product if they want to get more eyeballs and have a long term sustainable product on national TV at a prime time slot.


That's pretty much how I imagine it, lol. 

To be fair to Khan, if you want to call it that: I can understand why he felt the need to include Kenny Omega and The Young Bucks in this project. Jericho and JR are _way_ more key, but if you let Omega and The Bucks sign with WWE in early 2019, or even stick around in New Japan -- it doesn't get the "this is a focused product" traction AEW got with the hardcore fans that galvanized the same crowd for sellouts and PPV buys, etc. 

So Omega and The Bucks had leverage. WWE were offering huge money deals. Omega, at least, trashed New Japan, but much like Hogan in WCW, Omega and The Bucks used that edge to get something else that seems to be doing a lot of damage to the company -- creative control. They don't use it to smash themselves over, but they've used it to get their buddies in, regardless of talent or lack thereof, but they've settled themselves into nice executive positions, which no doubt come with health care and some nice benefits.

Honestly, I do think Omega and The Bucks are using the shit out of this promotion. They may not even think of it that way, because in their minds they might honestly believe the narrative that they are selfless performers, but they used a strong position to strong-arm Khan into giving them their own divisions to book without any previous experience, and probably get some nice retirement benefits too. It wouldn't surprise me if this is their last gig before they move on from the wrestling industry completely. 

So in many ways, Tony Khan may have felt like there was no choice but to put Omega and The Bucks in this position to avoid them signing with WWE and killing a lot of momentum. But, just like Bischoff needed to know when to cut Hogan off, Khan needs to know when enough is enough with these guys. Both are doing a good job at burying themselves publicly, because Omega's Women's Division is largely considered the worst thing about AEW wrestling, while The Dark Order stuff was universally panned and the criticism forced The Bucks off Twitter.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

The Wood said:


> That's pretty much how I imagine it, lol.
> 
> To be fair to Khan, if you want to call it that: I can understand why he felt the need to include Kenny Omega and The Young Bucks in this project. Jericho and JR are _way_ more key, but if you let Omega and The Bucks sign with WWE in early 2019, or even stick around in New Japan -- it doesn't get the "this is a focused product" traction AEW got with the hardcore fans that galvanized the same crowd for sellouts and PPV buys, etc.
> 
> ...


Yep. They need a central booker that isn’t a wrestler. Court Bauer would be so perfect.


----------



## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

TKO Wrestling said:


> Yep. They need a central booker that isn’t a wrestler. Court Bauer would be so perfect.


I know Sting is tied to WWE, but I wonder how a guy like Sting would go as a booker, someone that's had decades of experience through different eras and promotions, having guys like Cody and Omega booking wont work because they don't have the life experience of the older generations(like Cody's father did)


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

I don't think Sting really had that full instinct for wrestling. If you look behind the scenes a lot, he was more a passenger to his own success than people realize. TBS liked him because of his look, but he didn't work as a champion. Scott Hall would give him the Crow gimmick. He spent a lot of time just not being around, which helped him tremendously. After that he was mired by bad booking like everyone else. 

I'd get real estate advice from The Stinger, but not sure if I would trust him as a booker. 

Arn Anderson, Tully Blanchard, Chris Jericho, Jim Ross, Cody and even someone like Dean Malenko I'd go with before Sting.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

The "dead within a year" meme is trash and untrue and anyone saying it is just baiting.


----------



## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

The Wood said:


> I don't think Sting really had that full instinct for wrestling. If you look behind the scenes a lot, he was more a passenger to his own success than people realize. TBS liked him because of his look, but he didn't work as a champion. Scott Hall would give him the Crow gimmick. He spent a lot of time just not being around, which helped him tremendously. After that he was mired by bad booking like everyone else.
> 
> I'd get real estate advice from The Stinger, but not sure if I would trust him as a booker.
> 
> Arn Anderson, Tully Blanchard, Chris Jericho, Jim Ross, Cody and even someone like Dean Malenko I'd go with before Sting.


Yeah i wasn't meaning Sting himself, I meant someone from that generation. Maybe Jericho could slide into that role when his in-ring career winds down.


----------



## The Masked Avenger (Apr 18, 2018)

Beatles123 said:


> The "dead within a year" meme is trash and untrue and anyone saying it is just baiting.


Holy shit! You're alive! I was getting worried since you were like AEW's #1 fan from day 1 and I haven't seen you post in months.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> Holy shit! You're alive! I was getting worried since you were like AEW's #1 fan from day 1 and I haven't seen you post in months.


My absence is not in correlation to AEW. It is, however, the fault in very large part of the actions of some here, who I will not name.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Beatles123 said:


> The "dead within a year" meme is trash and untrue and anyone saying it is just baiting.


What does this post even mean? Is there a meme? I don’t think they’ll be dead within a year, but I think the dream might be over within one.


----------



## dolphin1989 (Jan 7, 2020)

Hasn't Tony Khan even said that there is no war? 

Why can't WWE be WWE and AEW be AEW?


----------



## dolphin1989 (Jan 7, 2020)

Gh0stFace said:


> LOYALTY > $$$. It's obvious WWE doesn't give a fuck about it's wrestlers. All they care about is the bottom line. One only needs to read Ashley Massaro's affidavit made under criminal penalty of perjury as an ex-employee [correction: INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR] (https://wweconcussionlawsuitnews.co...19/05/Ashley-Massaro-Affidavit-Clean-11.1.pdf) before she killed herself.


Yeah before she "killed herself".


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

dolphin1989 said:


> Hasn't Tony Khan even said that there is no war?
> 
> Why can't WWE be WWE and AEW be AEW?


Because they are competing for air-time in a world where there is arguably too much wrestling content.


----------



## dolphin1989 (Jan 7, 2020)

The Wood said:


> Because they are competing for air-time in a world where there is arguably too much wrestling content.


I don't buy into that , AEW is AEW and WWE is WWE, why do they need to be pitted against one another?


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

dolphin1989 said:


> I don't buy into that , AEW is AEW and WWE is WWE, why do they need to be pitted against one another?


Because they are competing for air-time in a world where there is arguably too much wrestling content...


----------



## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

NathanMayberry said:


> The only thing Tony Kahn is better at Vince is telling the fans what they want to hear.


Vince is good at that too. He just thinks every fan is 70+ year old man named Vince McMahon.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

The Wood said:


> Because they are competing for air-time in a world where there is arguably too much wrestling content...


Not really. WWE fans will watch their garbage shit and AEW fans will have their own little show too.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

And they are competing for those eyeballs. It’s really simple.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

dolphin1989 said:


> Hasn't Tony Khan even said that there is no war?
> 
> Why can't WWE be WWE and AEW be AEW?


Because AEW fans have made it that way. They claimed they were going to destroy the WWE numerous times. BTE consisted of them insulting the WWE constantly and their fans made AEW the victim because of a piss ant comment. Cody destroyed Triple H's throne. They set out the challenge a long time ago. People are only saying there's no war now because AEW hasn't been as successful as they thought.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Threads like these are no good at all and full of the worst kind of people. How can some of you live with the absolute arrogance and evil you guys post?


----------



## herbski (May 9, 2013)

Gh0stFace said:


> To those trying to compare Dixie & Tony: Dixie was a stupid publicist and her father (Robert W. Carter) did not own Panda and his net worth is only $34 million. In comparison, Tony was a hardcore wrestling fan since 7 years old, accomplished in business, and his father's net worth is $8.1 billion and he's fully behind AEW.
> 
> So stop this Jacksonville Carter BS. It's not even close.


The general point still stands - just because you have the money to spend - doesn't mean you will be able to beat McMahon in the long run. 

For all the money that Daddy Khan has - their sports teams that the own are mostly garbage and never successful. Fulham isn't even in the EPL anymore they are in the Championship after years of being an EPL team. Relegated. The Jacksonville Jaguars have a decent season once every 5 years or so, but are mostly garbage. They are in full rebuild mode now again trading away the best CB in football (or at least top 3 or 4). Paid a scrub like Nick Foles who had a few decent playoffs game (Ok he won a Super Bowl - but he's mediocre at best QB) a shit ton of money last season. He's awful and I'm sure they will cut him in the next 2 seasons and then take the cap hit. 

From a financial standpoint- I'm sure these teams and clubs make money - which ultimately that is all the Khan's probably care about - but looking at actually being successful or entertaining - well their track record indicates that it's not that great.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

This thread looks so stupid right now ?


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

The Khans can keep AEW operating ad infinitum. They were about to spend $500 million on Wembley Stadium. The interest on that money alone would cover production costs. What is going to be interesting is where they draw the line on keeping this thing going. The TV rights are what is going to make the Khans richer. If/when it becomes apparent that they aren't going to get a cushier deal with TNT, does Shad Khan keep propping AEW up, or does he get on the phone to Vince and consider selling? 

The big issues AEW is going to run into are whether or not they can hook an audience that is going to stick with them enough that a network is going to open up their wallet to air them. You'd think that would be easy in the current climate, with weekly television being something that networks need. But the pitfall is if they are a) not getting the ratings or advertising needed to make that deal worthwhile, b) a Vince McMahon product is not the better option. Make no mistake about it, when the TNT deal with AEW is coming up, Vince McMahon will be on the phone to TNT about the possibility of them getting WWE programming for TNT. He can promise them stars. If a bunch of "nobodies" are getting 800k for them, imagine what a show built around Randy Orton and Brock Lesnar could do for them. 

AEW needs to make itself both an endearing option, but also a profitable one. Their ratings will be very important when it comes to making that decision. Vince will be able to low-ball the Khans. He could _pay_ for the slot. And the more I think about it, the more I think something like that is very likely, even if AEW builds an actual sizeable audience. But if they are hot enough, some network will take them up. The question is whether or not they will be willing to pay millions for them, because that is what Shad Khan is holding out for. 

The writing is virtually on the wall if they lose their viewership on TNT though. If they drop to 420k eventually, and it gets that "stank" on it, I don't really see the point in continuing the venture. And the more and more I think about it, the more I remember how ruthless Vince is, and even if AEW does _well_, Vince can play fucking dirty. It wouldn't be the biggest shock in the world if in three years time WCW is back on TNT.


----------



## The Sheik (Jul 10, 2017)

I can't speak about the NXT product since i don't follow it, but AEW seems to be killing them in the ratings most weeks.. they seem to be doing just fine... I don't think Triple H was ready for this war.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

The Wood said:


> The Khans can keep AEW operating ad infinitum. They were about to spend $500 million on Wembley Stadium. The interest on that money alone would cover production costs. What is going to be interesting is where they draw the line on keeping this thing going. The TV rights are what is going to make the Khans richer. If/when it becomes apparent that they aren't going to get a cushier deal with TNT, does Shad Khan keep propping AEW up, or does he get on the phone to Vince and consider selling?
> 
> The big issues AEW is going to run into are whether or not they can hook an audience that is going to stick with them enough that a network is going to open up their wallet to air them. You'd think that would be easy in the current climate, with weekly television being something that networks need. But the pitfall is if they are a) not getting the ratings or advertising needed to make that deal worthwhile, b) a Vince McMahon product is not the better option. Make no mistake about it, when the TNT deal with AEW is coming up, Vince McMahon will be on the phone to TNT about the possibility of them getting WWE programming for TNT. He can promise them stars. If a bunch of "nobodies" are getting 800k for them, imagine what a show built around Randy Orton and Brock Lesnar could do for them.
> 
> ...


HA. HA. HA.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Beatles123 said:


> HA. HA. HA.


It’s a true gut buster mate


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Beatles123 said:


> Threads like these are no good at all and full of the worst kind of people. How can some of you live with the absolute arrogance and evil you guys post?


Christ you're dramatic lol


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> Christ you're dramatic lol


Nope, I call it as i see it.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Beatles123 said:


> Nope, I call it as i see it.


Nah you're being dramatic and really hypocritical. Have you reread some of your posts when it comes to WWE and the wrestling you hate lol


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

RapShepard said:


> Nah you're being dramatic and really hypocritical. Have you reread some of your posts when it comes to WWE and the wrestling you hate lol


you seem a bit salty dawg


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

optikk sucks said:


> you seem a bit salty dawg


That doesn't make any sense for the exchange you replied to.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

RapShepard said:


> That doesn't make any sense for the exchange you replied to.


well it does. you're coming off very salty towards beatles. just be quiet bro


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

optikk sucks said:


> well it does. you're coming off very salty towards beatles. just be quiet bro


So you're upset I called @Beatles123 dramatic got it. He's dramatic and you're his defender cool.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

RapShepard said:


> So you're upset I called @Beatles123 dramatic got it. He's dramatic and you're his defender cool.


here comes the salt

i love it


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

optikk sucks said:


> here comes the salt
> 
> i love it


K


----------



## Reggie Dunlop (Nov 2, 2015)

herbski said:


> The general point still stands - just because you have the money to spend - doesn't mean you will be able to beat McMahon in the long run.
> 
> For all the money that Daddy Khan has - their sports teams that the own are mostly garbage and never successful. Fulham isn't even in the EPL anymore they are in the Championship after years of being an EPL team. Relegated. The Jacksonville Jaguars have a decent season once every 5 years or so, but are mostly garbage. They are in full rebuild mode now again trading away the best CB in football (or at least top 3 or 4). Paid a scrub like Nick Foles who had a few decent playoffs game (Ok he won a Super Bowl - but he's mediocre at best QB) a shit ton of money last season. He's awful and I'm sure they will cut him in the next 2 seasons and then take the cap hit.
> 
> From a financial standpoint- I'm sure these teams and clubs make money - which ultimately that is all the Khan's probably care about - but looking at actually being successful or entertaining - well their track record indicates that it's not that great.


And how many pro sports teams and/or wrestling promotions do you own?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Reggie Dunlop said:


> And how many pro sports teams and/or wrestling promotions do you own?


I’m gonna guess zero.

he has zero teams.

..... wonder if I’m right


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

Moho Hwoarang said:


> IMO,the most thing that damaged AEW that it was presented as an equal or competitor for WWE and NXT.
> 
> I think NXT at the moment is the best show WWE produce so I won't say that AEW can't even face the minor show or something like that.
> 
> ...


LOL LOL LOL LOL AEW are doing just fine. K thx bye


----------



## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

So 


Beatles123 said:


> My absence is not in correlation to AEW. It is, however, the fault in very large part of the actions of some here, who I will not name.


so you blame some random folks on an internet board for whatever happened to you (you mentioned depression in another thread). Thats sad, strange and just really wrong. But whatever helps fighting the demons.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop (Nov 2, 2015)

fabi1982 said:


> So
> 
> so you blame some random folks on an internet board for whatever happened to you (you mentioned depression in another thread). Thats sad, strange and just really wrong. But whatever helps fighting the demons.


Guy openly admits he’s dealing with depression, and you decide to keep piling it on? What an incredible human being.


----------



## Garty (Jul 29, 2007)

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Guy openly admits he’s dealing with depression, and you decide to keep piling it on? What an incredible human being.


No, no, no, he's right. He's just providing him guidance and answering his questions with facts. You know, kind of like what Wood does on a consistent basis.


----------



## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Guy openly admits he’s dealing with depression, and you decide to keep piling it on? What an incredible human being.


I went through this myself and the first thing I learned in therapy is not blaming others, so please keep your useless comment to yourself. And dont pile on anything and it is sad that he blames others for it. Understand, don’t understand, I dont care


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## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

fabi1982 said:


> I went through this myself and the first thing I learned in therapy is not blaming others, so please keep your useless comment to yourself. And dont pile on anything and it is sad that he blames others for it. Understand, don’t understand, I dont care


yeah then you would know what a guy would go through with genuine depression and calling how he feels "sad, strange and just really wrong"

poor example of a human being, taking your distaste for AEW to another level.


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## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

optikk sucks said:


> yeah then you would know what a guy would go through with genuine depression and calling how he feels "sad, strange and just really wrong"
> 
> poor example of a human being, taking your distaste for AEW to another level.


So you can call me a poor human being then but I cant. Double standards much? And this has nothing to do with AEW. He should just avoid places like this when it makes him feel uncomfortable, but to come here blame others for his situation is sad and wrong. Instand by that as it is true


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

@optikk @reg @Garty - What ghost are you guys talking to?

from your replies he/she/they sounds like a dumbfuck


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## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

fabi1982 said:


> So you can call me a poor human being then but I cant. Double standards much? And this has nothing to do with AEW. He should just avoid places like this when it makes him feel uncomfortable, but to come here blame others for his situation is sad and wrong. Instand by that as it is true


It is a poor example of someone who is very anti-AEW, now personally attacking people who come here to talk about something they enjoy watching and are invested in. 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> @optikk @reg @Garty - What ghost are you guys talking to?
> 
> from your replies he/she/they sounds like a dumbfuck


@fabi1982 who has insulted @Beatles123 and made fun of his personal situation


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## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

optikk sucks said:


> It is a poor example of someone who is very anti-AEW, now personally attacking people who come here to talk about something they enjoy watching and are invested in.
> 
> 
> @fabi1982 who has insulted @Beatles123 and made fun of his personal situation


You guys are just as sad as Beatles comment. Where did I insulted him and where did I made fun of his situation? It is wrong to blame others, thats a fact, go ask some therapists, but hey you dont care about honest opinions. You are like the little kid who gets laughed at by the whole class and then runs to the principal and tells him „they said I suck“. Looks like you guys really have not much brain or an understanding, just blindly defending „one of yours“. Also a sad statement. but who am I talking to, just think what you think. I cant care less about comments from random people on the internet


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

optikk sucks said:


> It is a poor example of someone who is very anti-AEW, now personally attacking people who come here to talk about something they enjoy watching and are invested in.
> 
> 
> @fabi1982 who has insulted @Beatles123 and made fun of his personal situation


Ah, dumbfuckery confirmed then

Beatles, mate - I know you don’t like ignoring people - and I admire that - but sometimes its gotta happen, even if its just for personal peace.


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## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Ah, dumbfuckery confirmed then
> 
> Beatles, mate - I know you don’t like ignoring people - and I admire that - but sometimes its gotta happen, even if its just for personal peace.


legit cannot believe that a quick win for AEW is now resulting in some of these anti-AEW marks now personally attacking AEW fans. This is how desperate they have become.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

optikk sucks said:


> legit cannot believe that a quick win for AEW is now resulting in some of these anti-AEW marks now personally attacking AEW fans. This is how desperate they have become.


Yeah, it's definitely the people who talk reasonably about AEW that are doing the personal attacking. Shall we ignore that someone _made a fucking thread about me_ trying to diagnose me with a personality disorder. The Dude, Rainmaker, fabi, Cult03 and kingfrass are insulted all the time. It's the go-to for an AEW fanboy (the genuine fans can usually discuss things). 

I hope Beatles gets through his shit, but no one owes him the concession of stepping away from their conversations on a discussion board, lol.


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## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

The Wood said:


> Yeah, it's definitely the people who talk reasonably about AEW that are doing the personal attacking. Shall we ignore that someone _made a fucking thread about me_ trying to diagnose me with a personality disorder. The Dude, Rainmaker, fabi, Cult03 and kingfrass are insulted all the time. It's the go-to for an AEW fanboy (the genuine fans can usually discuss things).
> 
> I hope Beatles gets through his shit, but no one owes him the concession of stepping away from their conversations on a discussion board, lol.


I actually see two threads


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## herbski (May 9, 2013)

Reggie Dunlop said:


> And how many pro sports teams and/or wrestling promotions do you own?


Irrelevant, ad hominem comment. The point still stands that the Khan's don't run (at least on the field) successful sports franchises. Whether I personally own (or am capable of) doing it is not relevant to anything I said.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

herbski said:


> Irrelevant, ad hominem comment. The point still stands that the Khan's don't run (at least on the field) successful sports franchises.


Whenever i see him tweeting about Fulham the fans shower him with praise


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## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

They were so unready that they got a new 4 year contract and a 2nd TV show in just 3 months.

Jeez what were they thinking.


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

fabi1982 said:


> I went through this myself and the first thing I learned in therapy is not blaming others, so please keep your useless comment to yourself. And dont pile on anything and it is sad that he blames others for it. Understand, don’t understand, I dont care


I don't recall where this had to be discussed.


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## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

So actually AEW was ready and TNT rewarded them for it. While WWE and NXT weren't ready. Because TNT is happy. While one would think USA probably isn't happy. When you consider they were doing better ratings on Wednesday before they had NXT on... If this continues do they tell Vince enough with the BS. Let's move this to Tuesday?


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## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

This is the same as people say "when will RAW be canceled". Do you know USA is unhappy? The same "WWE fanboys" gets trashed in here, when they said the same thing before. Better ratings doesnt mean more money, and at the end for the networks it is all about the money. And I dont think WWE would move to Tuesday, they have been on Wednesday all along, all what can happen is them going back purely on the network. And at least as a fan of NXT I cant care less where I watch this show.

Lets wait and see where they stand by the end of this year, because before the "new deal" news everyone in here was mumbling "bbbbut this is just a startup, wwwwwait a little longer"


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## Roxinius (Jul 21, 2014)

Boy this thread is aging well


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Taroostyles said:


> They were so unready that they got a new 4 year contract and a 2nd TV show in just 3 months.
> 
> Jeez what were they thinking.


A deal they basically gave away. $45 million a year is nothing in TV terms. It places the value of an hour of their programming at $12.5 million per hour. WWE is getting eight times as much.

This was throwing out pussy on a troop train. This is hardly an accomplishment. It’s quid pro quo. AEW gets some measure of security while TNT don’t have to pay shit for live entertainment for four years. And it’s a fine deal for them, but let’s not make it out to be some sort of revolutionary marker of success.


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