# Is Tony Khan The Worst Mainstream Promoter Ever?



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Jesus Christ my guy you’re really dedicated to painting Tony and AEW in the worse possible light. All you do is talk shit lol. Give it a rest for 2 seconds. You come off as extremely jealous of the guy.

No he’s not the worst. If we’re talking last 10-15 years then I would say Vince is FAR worse. All time I would say Russo.

I don’t understand how you can look at this guy who has given us free wrestling entertainment and some of the best content I’ve seen in a long time and hate him so passionately. The guy is not Satan. He’s a fan who wants to provide for other fans.


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## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

See this topic shouldn't even exist. Tony is at worst the 4th best promoter in the last 5 decades. At worst.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

prosperwithdeen said:


> Jesus Christ my guy you’re really dedicated to painting Tony and AEW in the worse possible light. All you do is talk shit lol. Give it a rest for 2 seconds. You come off as extremely jealous of the guy.
> 
> No he’s not the worst. If we’re talking last 10-15 years then I would say Vince is FAR worse. All time I would say Russo.
> 
> I don’t understand how you can look at this guy who has given us free wrestling entertainment and some of the best content I’ve seen in a long time and hate him so passionately. The guy is not Satan. He’s a fan who wants to provide for other fans.


Vince Russo isn't a promoter. Vince McMahon is the most successful promoter of all time.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

No. It would take a lot to dethrone Herb Abrams. You never go full Herb.


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## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

Jim Herd maybe.


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Vince Russo isn't a promoter. Vince McMahon is the most successful promoter of all time.


You know what it took for him to get to being the most successful? You think it happened in a year under a wrestling scene that is no longer popular? As of the last 10-15 years, Vince has been ten times worse. Some would even argue Dixie Carter from what I see but I didn’t watch too much TNA so I won’t comment on that comparison.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Two Sheds said:


> No. It would take a lot to dethrone Herb Abrams. You never go full Herb.


Oooh Herb is a competitor. He wasn't overly mainstream though was he? What station was he on?


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## Swan-San (May 25, 2019)

Yes. He's a fool with a good memory.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

prosperwithdeen said:


> You know what it took for him to get to being the most successful? You think it happened in a year under a wrestling scene that is no longer popular? As of the last 10-15 years, Vince has been ten times worse. Some would even argue Dixie Carter from what I see but I didn’t watch too much TNA so I won’t comment on that comparison.


I watched a lot of TNA. Dixie is better than Khan


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## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

Not sure this thread should even exist, but no, Tony is not the worst promoter of all times.
Eric Bischoff managed to kill the only real competition WWF ever had, and then began working for said competition.. (and don´t give me any semantics about how he was not a promoter because he didn´t own the company)


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## Mercian (Jun 26, 2020)

You know your gonna get shit for this Chip mate 

He is actually the worst promoter and Booker ever not just Mainstream 

Ive lived through Vince Russo, WCW at its worst, Global at its worst, XPW, Herb Abrahams UWF, IWCCW TV, GLOW, LPWA

A no talent Mark surrounding himself with Self serving marks as execs, guy said earlier talent shouldnt be execs pretty much why

To be honest it is a surprise how good this show can be at times despite this! Damn infuriating at others- Cody v Dustin to that shit awful Hardy match described above

They book for the 500k of Geeks, the other 250K are just there hoping it gets better or to understand Cornette's best jokes


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I watched a lot of TNA. Dixie is better than Khan


I mean you REALLY hate Tony though Chip so I can’t trust your judgment. I’ll let others comment on who is actually better.


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## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

Whoever the TNA promoter is now is worse.


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## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Dixie Carter for me. I dont care what Tony does. It will always be Dixie Carter to me.


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## Mercian (Jun 26, 2020)

The Ding Dongs would have beaten FTR ages ago


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

yeahright2 said:


> Not sure this thread should even exist, but no, Tony is not the worst promoter of all times.
> Eric Bischoff managed to kill the only real competition WWF ever had, and then began working for said competition.. (and don´t give me any semantics about how he was not a promoter because he didn´t own the company)


Eric had major success that he had to earn though


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## Brodus Clay (Jan 6, 2012)

Another stupid Chip thread.


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## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Eric had major success that he had to earn though


He still killed WCW by giving too much freedom to the wrestlers. That´s on his resume forever.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Brodus Clay said:


> Another stupid Chip thread.


Hey it's the guy that always comments on me but never the post.

It's definitely a good discussion. The only one I personally see as competitive with Tony is Two Sheds suggestion of Abrams


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## ReekOfAwesomenesss (Apr 6, 2012)

I don't know about that but he is about to win the booker of the year award. which is funny af.


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

ReekOfAwesomenesss said:


> I don't know about that but he is about to win the booker of the year award. which is funny af.


He makes mistakes and he ain’t perfect, even I think he makes questionable decisions and the women’s division sucks but in my opinion I think he definitely deserves booker of the year compared to the rest.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

ReekOfAwesomenesss said:


> I don't know about that but he is about to win the booker of the year award. which is funny af.


From Meltzer? There's a shock


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## ReekOfAwesomenesss (Apr 6, 2012)

prosperwithdeen said:


> He makes mistakes and he ain’t perfect, even I think he makes questionable decisions and the women’s division sucks but in my opinion I think he definitely deserves booker of the year compared to the rest.


How many promotions did you follow this year?




Chip Chipperson said:


> From Meltzer? There's a shock


yeah


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## omaroo (Sep 19, 2006)

I might really disike TK and what he is doing at times with AEW but worst promoter of all time is bit of a stretch.

Dixie for me is way way above him and vince has been atrocious last 15 years or so.


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## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

prosperwithdeen said:


> He makes mistakes and he ain’t perfect, even I think he makes questionable decisions and the women’s division sucks but in my opinion I think he definitely deserves booker of the year compared to the rest.


I would like a friendly debate about this if you dont mind. What does he do that makes you feel he deserves booker of the year? Genuine question. I won't crap on your opinion.


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

ReekOfAwesomenesss said:


> How many promotions did you follow this year?
> yeah


Admittedly not the whole year for most but I’ve watched a decent amount of NWA, New Japan, I tried Impact but hated it, and of course WWE.


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Klitschko said:


> I would like a friendly debate about this if you dont mind. What does he do that makes you feel he deserves booker of the year? Genuine question. I won't crap on your opinion.


That’s a loaded question I’ll have to respond when I get home.


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## Mercian (Jun 26, 2020)

Mario Savoldi? 

Repeats of Joe Savoldi beating Tazz every week


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## somerandomfan (Dec 13, 2013)

Going to have to agree with Herb Adams as well. There's definitely worst promoters but mainstream isn't exactly the word to give some of them, Rob Black likely gets my vote for that title but I'd hardly call XPW "mainstream".

Can't say Tony wouldn't make the list, he seems to have learned all the wrong things from Dixie Carter, not to say AEW is bad but there can be some questionable decisions, too many people with creative control (thankfully no one with a Hoganesque ego yet) and becoming the boy who cried wolf on "big announcements" that's not a good start.
Although I guess if you bring football into things there's a lack of confidence as well seeing the Jaguars are already 1 and 7 this season. But WOAT? Nah I can't give him that.


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## bigwrestlingfan22 (May 19, 2015)

I'm not saying this is Chip's best thread of all time but the people responding make my head hurt. First off most don't seem to understand what a promoter is. No, Vince Russo isn't a promoter.

Second if you are trying to say Vince McMahon is a worse promoter than anyone in wrestling muchless tony Khan you need to leave right now. Vince got more in TV rights with Fox than AEW itself is worth. What in the world are you people talking about?


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## ProjectGargano (Apr 7, 2018)

Is Chip the worst member of this forum of all time?


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

prosperwithdeen said:


> Jesus Christ my guy you’re really dedicated to painting Tony and AEW in the worse possible light. All you do is talk shit lol. Give it a rest for 2 seconds. You come off as extremely jealous of the guy.
> 
> No he’s not the worst. If we’re talking last 10-15 years then I would say Vince is FAR worse. All time I would say Russo.
> 
> I don’t understand how you can look at this guy who has given us free wrestling entertainment and some of the best content I’ve seen in a long time and hate him so passionately. The guy is not Satan. He’s a fan who wants to provide for other fans.


There’s no way Vince McMahon is worse than Tony Khan. What is your reasoning here? Because you don’t like John Cena and Roman Reigns getting pushed?

Vince McMahon just signed deals that guarantees his promotion takes in $500 million in revenue a year from their top two TV shows in the United States alone. How exactly is he a bad promoter? Because he overhyped Edge vs. Orton? What actually is your reasoning? 



validreasoning said:


> Jim Herd maybe.


Names like Herd, Herb and Bischoff popped into mind. I don’t think Herb counts as mainstream, but let’s put him in there. I do think he has to be worse than TK, but that is a scale thing too. Give TK the same means as Herb and what would you get?



yeahright2 said:


> Not sure this thread should even exist, but no, Tony is not the worst promoter of all times.
> Eric Bischoff managed to kill the only real competition WWF ever had, and then began working for said competition.. (and don´t give me any semantics about how he was not a promoter because he didn´t own the company)


Bischoff also instrumented the boom that helped the company prosper enough for it to be notable when it died. I think Bischoff is overrated as hell, because all he really did was sign the top stars to big contracts and let them do whatever before stumbling on the nWo, but that was the tactic for the time. And TK couldn’t even achieve that.

For those of you saying TK doesn’t even make the top 5 or whatever — who does? I don’t see anyone listing names. You’ve got Herb and Herd that might be worse, if you count Herb. Which you really shouldn’t. 



ReekOfAwesomenesss said:


> I don't know about that but he is about to win the booker of the year award. which is funny af.


I’m worried about that, and it will kill any credibility the Observer has with me. I’m actually thinking Gedo takes it, because Dave still likes New Japan, but I can see them penalising it because of things Dave doesn’t understand.

I fully expect Dynamite to win TV show of the year and AEW to win promotion of the year or whatever awards Dave gives out for that though.


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## Alright_Mate (Jul 21, 2014)

WOW

The most predictable thing of 2020 happens again.

A Chip Chipperson post bashing AEW.

1139 posts for this month, at least a 1000 of which probably bash AEW, great effort 👏


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Alright_Mate said:


> WOW
> 
> The most predictable thing of 2020 happens again.
> 
> ...


Care to actually name someone that was worse than TK, or are you just going to bash the guy raising good points for raising them?


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## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Well you talk about his promotion 24/7 so I guess he's not that bad at his job.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

EmbassyForever said:


> Well you talk about his promotion 24/7 so I guess he's not that bad at his job.


How would that mean he’s not bad at his job?


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## Alright_Mate (Jul 21, 2014)

The Wood said:


> Care to actually name someone that was worse than TK, or are you just going to bash the guy raising good points for raising them?


HOLY SHIT!

The second most predictable thing of 2020 happens again.

Chip’s number 1 butt buddy comes and backs him up.

This really is starting to get predictably boring.


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## DJ Punk (Sep 1, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I just listened to the Jim Cornette review of Full Gear.


Stopped reading there.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Alright_Mate said:


> HOLY SHIT!
> 
> The second most predictable thing of 2020 happens again.
> 
> ...


That was your second chance to contribute. I’m going to assume you’ve got nothing.


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## DJ Punk (Sep 1, 2016)

Alright_Mate said:


> HOLY SHIT!
> 
> The second most predictable thing of 2020 happens again.
> 
> ...


Starting to think one of them is Cucknette himself and the other's just a thirsty fanboy (or the dude plowing his wife).


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## Qudhufo (Jun 25, 2019)

DJ Punk said:


> Stopped reading there.


Stop lying bro.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Oooh Herb is a competitor. He wasn't overly mainstream though was he? What station was he on?


The UWF did not last very long (hence why he is the worst) but Fury Hour did air nationally on SportsChannel America for about a year. He also had some BIG names like Bruno and I believe Andre even appeared a couple times until Vince put a stop to it.

If you have not seen the Dark Side of the Ring episode on the UWF, it is worth watching. Herb was all kinds of special.


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## Alright_Mate (Jul 21, 2014)

The Wood said:


> That was your second chance to contribute. I’m going to assume you’ve got nothing.


Of course I don’t Wood.

I just thought I’d hop in and check out Chip’s story number 2346 on how to bash AEW.

I’ve agreed with him and yourself at times in the past, but all this hating every single day is starting to get repetitively boring.

And the amount of times you back him up, your tongue must be close to getting permanently stuck up his arse by now, embarrassing.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Fury Hour is an amazing name for a TV show. I almost want to put Herb above Tony for the sheer insanity of it.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Alright_Mate said:


> Of course I don’t Wood.
> 
> I just thought I’d hop in and check out Chip’s story number 2346 on how to bash AEW.
> 
> ...


So, uh, which promoter is worse than TK again?


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## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

Herb Abrams was worse for sure.


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## DJ Punk (Sep 1, 2016)

Qudhufo said:


> Stop lying bro.


I actually did stop reading there lol.

Like, we get it. Cornette hates AEW, but yet it lives rent free inside his head to the point where he has to come out with 100s of videos spouting the same nonsense. He's an old out of touch bitter old racist cuck. His opinions don't matter and do nothing to make wrestling better. 

He just inspires a bunch of other old bitter marks to constantly complain and make wrestling fans look like unhappy morons.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Two Sheds said:


> The UWF did not last very long (hence why he is the worst) but Fury Hour did air nationally on SportsChannel America for about a year. He also had some BIG names like Bruno and I believe Andre even appeared a couple times until Vince put a stop to it.
> 
> If you have not seen the Dark Side of the Ring episode on the UWF, it is worth watching. Herb was all kinds of special.


Yeah I watched it, it was a fun watch my limitations are on networks though. Like I don't know if sports channel is big, medium or small hence my question of if he was mainstream.

Because Impact has national TV but it's a tiny network so I don't consider them Mainstream


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

And for people saying Vince...you can criticize Vince for being bad at creative and booking (and I do a lot) but you cannot possibly say he is a bad PROMOTER, which is the question here.


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## Alright_Mate (Jul 21, 2014)

DJ Punk said:


> Starting to think one of them is Cucknette himself and the other's just a thirsty fanboy (or the dude plowing his wife).


I find it strange both are from Australia.

Chip and Wood could be the same person.

Could be Best Friends.

Could be lovers.

Or could be the founding members of “The Australian we hate AEW society“.


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## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

Imagine voting for the man responsible for that as the worst promotor


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## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Two Sheds said:


> And for people saying Vince...you can criticize Vince for being bad at creative and booking (and I do a lot) but you cannot possibly say he is a bad PROMOTER, which is the question here.


I have not seen many wresting companies. But from what I have seen, in my opinion Vince is the best promoter and is the MVP booker of the year. Better then Tony Khan. Look no further then how they both handled the women's division when the person they wanted to center it around had to leave for whatever reason.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Alright_Mate said:


> I find it strange both are from Australia.
> 
> Chip and Wood could be the same person.
> 
> ...


Australia is a big place. Wood lives out of my state though so no dice. I'm sure we'd be buddies though


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah I watched it, it was a fun watch my limitations are on networks though. Like I don't know if sports channel is big, medium or small hence my question of if he was mainstream.
> 
> Because Impact has national TV but it's a tiny network so I don't consider them Mainstream


I am not a huge history buff on SportsChannel, but it was national. It eventually got merged into what would become Fox Sports today.

Fun bit of trivia, SportsChannel Philly is what aired ECW when it started doing Hardcore TV.

I honestly have no idea if anyone has actual ratings for Fury Hour though.


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## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

ReekOfAwesomenesss said:


> I don't know about that but he is about to win the booker of the year award. which is funny af.


Any awards or star ratings given to AEW from Meltzer couldn´t be more biased, so there´s zero credibility in those (just like his claims about "backstage sources" in WWE)


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## DJ Punk (Sep 1, 2016)

La Parka said:


> View attachment 93494
> 
> 
> Imagine voting for the man responsible for that as the worst promotor


Don't think this is a Vince vs Tony thread. Dixie Carter exists.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

WWE booking has actually been fine this year. The Royal Rumble was IMMACULATE. They didn’t have crowds, but Drew and Braun got to go over strong at Mania. Yeah, there are issues with them both doing it, but on paper you know what they are going for. Roman Reigns has been excellent. Like, what has really been badly booked? The WWE way about the booking is pretty gentrified and silly, but they’ve managed to make MVP, Shelton Benjamin and Bobby Lashley commodities in 2020 too.

Ricochet may not be the WWE Champion and Drew Gulak may not have won an Ultimate Submission Match against Daniel Bryan in the main event of SummerSlam, but there haven’t been any major “Wtf, this is so fucking bad” moves in 2020 that I can think of. Especially when you compare them to AEW.

I mean, yeah, fuck WWE for the Firefly Funhouse. But AEW has had Stadium Stampede, Tooth & Nail and Elite Deletion too. There’s nothing making AEW “better.”



DJ Punk said:


> I actually did stop reading there lol.
> 
> Like, we get it. Cornette hates AEW, but yet it lives rent free inside his head to the point where he has to come out with 100s of videos spouting the same nonsense. He's an old out of touch bitter old racist cuck. His opinions don't matter and do nothing to make wrestling better.
> 
> He just inspires a bunch of other old bitter marks to constantly complain and make wrestling fans look like unhappy morons.


Lol, he lives rent free inside their head. He is a wrestling podcaster. He’s going to talk about the wrestling. His fans ask him to. The videos are split up from his podcast. He does two shows every week and someone will ask a question like “What do you think about The Young Bucks turning heel one week and then being babyfaces the next?” and he’ll give his thoughts.

“Cuck,” maybe, not that there’s anything wrong with that. Apparently his wife is a cuckqueen too. Who cares? Wanna talk about bitter...yeesh. Let people have their fun. Racist? Nah. Opinions don’t matter? He almost outdraws AEW lol. People in both AEW and WWE come to him for advice.

You don’t like his opinions so you dismiss them, but what you really mean to say is that _your_ opinion doesn’t matter and does nothing to make wrestling better.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Wood said:


> WWE booking has actually been fine this year. The Royal Rumble was IMMACULATE. They didn’t have crowds, but Drew and Braun got to go over strong at Mania. Yeah, there are issues with them both doing it, but on paper you know what they are going for. Roman Reigns has been excellent. Like, what has really been badly booked? The WWE way about the booking is pretty gentrified and silly, but they’ve managed to make MVP, Shelton Benjamin and Bobby Lashley commodities in 2020 too.
> 
> Ricochet may not be the WWE Champion and Drew Gulak may not have won an Ultimate Submission Match against Daniel Bryan in the main event of SummerSlam, but there haven’t been any major “Wtf, this is so fucking bad” moves in 2020 that I can think of. Especially when you compare them to AEW.
> 
> I mean, yeah, fuck WWE for the Firefly Funhouse. But AEW has had Stadium Stampede, Tooth & Nail and Elite Deletion too. There’s nothing making AEW “better.”


It has gotten better, but they had the Street Profits vs the Viking Raiders. That alone heavily drags down their average.


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## deadcool (May 4, 2006)

No, there have been far worse promoters than him (Jeff Jarrett, Vince Russo, Triple HGH, etc).

He's the only contemporary wrestling promoter we have in the industry. He has done a good job so far. That's not to say he hasn't made his share of mistakes. He's a smart guy and knows what he's doing. I hope he succeeds in making AEW a profitable wrestling organization that can compete with WWE.


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## midgetlover69 (Nov 27, 2016)

Not yet but soon enough he could be!


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## somerandomfan (Dec 13, 2013)

La Parka said:


> View attachment 93494
> 
> 
> Imagine voting for the man responsible for that as the worst promotor


If anyone thinks that someone who can pull in record profits from TV deals while ratings are down, ticket sales were down when they were able to, and still is the biggest wrestling promotion in the world despite how shit the product is definitely gets a lot of credit as a promoter, and if anyone disagrees they need to stop and learn what a wrestling promoter is and stop talking about bookers.


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## midgetlover69 (Nov 27, 2016)

deadcool said:


> No, there have been far worse promoters than him (Jeff Jarrett, Vince Russo, Triple HGH, etc).
> 
> He's the only contemporary wrestling promoter we have in the industry. He has done a good job so far. That's not to say he hasn't made his share of mistakes. He's a smart guy and knows what he's doing. I hope he succeeds in making AEW a profitable wrestling organization that can compete with WWE.


what makes you so sure hes such a smart guy? Or that he knows what hes doing?


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Two Sheds said:


> It has gotten better, but they had the Street Profits vs the Viking Raiders. That alone heavily drags down their average.


Okay, yeah, I forgot about that.


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## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

prosperwithdeen said:


> Jesus Christ my guy you’re really dedicated to painting Tony and AEW in the worse possible light. All you do is talk shit lol. Give it a rest for 2 seconds. You come off as extremely jealous of the guy.
> 
> No he’s not the worst. If we’re talking last 10-15 years then I would say Vince is FAR worse. All time I would say Russo.
> 
> I don’t understand how you can look at this guy who has given us free wrestling entertainment and some of the best content I’ve seen in a long time and hate him so passionately. The guy is not Satan. He’s a fan who wants to provide for other fans.


Absolutely jelly and its sickening.


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## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

No. Bad thread.

So many jealous bitter people in this thread 😂


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## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Well chip sorry but the numbers in you're own poll speak volumes lol.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Absolutely jelly and its sickening.


Jealous of what bro? If we're all just jealous and bitter name five things Tony is really good at


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Well chip sorry but the numbers in you're own poll speak volumes lol.


Yes. He has survived because of Herb Abrams and Dixie Carter. Great company to be in


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## thisissting (Aug 14, 2018)

This is shocking trolling and should have been locked right away. Who is to say this email is even real and even if it is the woman could have some agenda. Maybe if we go by viewers you are the worst promoter of all time. You ever had a million people watching any given week and probably triple that when you add folk watching illegal streams etc. This is just another post aimed at stirring up an argument that you and your pal can contribute to as you like the attention.


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## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

Nah. He pulled off a 225 million dollar deal with a fading cable network to either fully or mostly bankroll his childhood dream. 5 times bigger than Dixie achieved. He also got said promotion onto the second biggest network in the UK and strong coverage in Europe. Action figures in major stores, video game in development, growing online channels.

For the first six months they were decent for a start up. First burgeoning wrestling company to face both head to head competition from day one and a global pandemic. Had to emanate from an even worse venue than Impact Zone or ECW Arena. But it's reduced production costs.

No guarantee a a tighter roster and more traditional booking would reap rewards in terms of increased viewership: ECW on TNN hit a ceiling, TNA 2007-2012 hit a ceiling, Smackdown in 2002 didn't grow, ROH's national show didn't move the needle, NXT is hovering at 0.65 million viewers.


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## stew mack (Apr 24, 2013)

DJ Punk said:


> I actually did stop reading there lol.
> 
> Like, we get it. Cornette hates AEW, but yet it lives rent free inside his head to the point where he has to come out with 100s of videos spouting the same nonsense. He's an old out of touch bitter old racist cuck. His opinions don't matter and do nothing to make wrestling better.
> 
> He just inspires a bunch of other old bitter marks to constantly complain and make wrestling fans look like unhappy morons.



to be fair Cornette has a highly successful podcast whose success bounces off AEW and vice versa.. if you do not think Cornette wants AEW to succeed you are highly off base


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

thisissting said:


> This is shocking trolling and should have been locked right away. Who is to say this email is even real and even if it is the woman could have some agenda. Maybe if we go by viewers you are the worst promoter of all time. You ever had a million people watching any given week and probably triple that when you add folk watching illegal streams etc. This is just another post aimed at stirring up an argument that you and your pal can contribute to as you like the attention.


You're right, Cornette faked an email just to make Tony look bad.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

thisissting said:


> This is shocking trolling and should have been locked right away. Who is to say this email is even real and even if it is the woman could have some agenda. Maybe if we go by viewers you are the worst promoter of all time. You ever had a million people watching any given week and probably triple that when you add folk watching illegal streams etc. This is just another post aimed at stirring up an argument that you and your pal can contribute to as you like the attention.


Give Chip $100 million, a spot on TNT and find out.

The email was real. Deal with it.


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## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

lol at this thread. It's not really its existence per se, but the relentless persistence, day after day, week after week. At least the old school trolls on RSPW had funny gimmicks.

I have The Wood on ignore which made the board slightly more bearable, now for the other. 2,000 posts in one month between them, seldom with a good thing to say. Imagine they put this effort into _liking_ stuff instead of hating it, they might then be productive members of society.


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## Y2K23 (Oct 10, 2019)

This is by far the most retarded take ever typed on this site. I would classify it as comedy If it were funny at least.

Take a deep breath and go outside man. Tony Khan's success is literally eating you inside as we speak. This man is responsible for bringing joy back into the wrestling industry. Its sad to see post like these. Dont take wrestling so seriously. 

Cheers mate.


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Say what you want about Chip, but you can't deny that he knows how to make a thread that will get to 10 pages easily.


----------



## stew mack (Apr 24, 2013)

Mods don't you dare lock this thread, this is classic wrestlingforum and as someone who has been here a long time and made a name liek 7 or 8 years into the forum I miss these type threads


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Jealous of what bro? If we're all just jealous and bitter name five things Tony is really good at


Comes off as you being jealous since you're a promoter too,just on the lower tier.jealous of well let's see.....money,tv deal,contracted talent.....

Tony and AEW have single handedly brought me back to wrestling that's all that needs to be said,and I'm not alone in that fact.


----------



## thisissting (Aug 14, 2018)

DaSlacker said:


> Nah. He pulled off a 225 million dollar deal with a fading cable network to either fully or mostly bankroll his childhood dream. 5 times bigger than Dixie achieved. He also got said promotion onto the second biggest network in the UK and strong coverage in Europe. Action figures in major stores, video game in development, growing online channels.
> 
> For the first six months they were decent for a start up. First burgeoning wrestling company to face both head to head competition from day one and a global pandemic. Had to emanate from an even worse venue than Impact Zone or ECW Arena. But it's reduced production costs.
> 
> No guarantee a a tighter roster and more traditional booking would reap rewards in terms of increased viewership: ECW on TNN hit a ceiling, TNA 2007-2012 hit a ceiling, Smackdown in 2002 didn't grow, ROH's national show didn't move the needle, NXT is hovering at 0.65 million viewers.


Nice sensible post.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

3venflow said:


> lol at this thread. It's not really its existence per se, but the relentless persistence, day after day, week after week. At least the old school trolls on RSPW had funny gimmicks.
> 
> I have The Wood on ignore which made the board slightly more bearable, now for the other. 2,000 posts in one month between them, seldom with a good thing to say. Imagine they put this effort into _liking_ stuff instead of hating it, they might then be productive members of society.


How am I not a productive member of society? I work, am essential worker, pay taxes on both wrestling income and my employment income, have history of volunteering to help less fortunate and many other achievements.

But because I'm posting on a forum now I suck lol


----------



## thisissting (Aug 14, 2018)

DJ Punk said:


> I actually did stop reading there lol.
> 
> Like, we get it. Cornette hates AEW, but yet it lives rent free inside his head to the point where he has to come out with 100s of videos spouting the same nonsense. He's an old out of touch bitter old racist cuck. His opinions don't matter and do nothing to make wrestling better.
> 
> He just inspires a bunch of other old bitter marks to constantly complain and make wrestling fans look like unhappy morons.


Spot on assessment right there.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Comes off as you being jealous since you're a promoter too,just on the lower tier.jealous of well let's see.....money,tv deal,contracted talent.....
> 
> Tony and AEW have single handedly brought me back to wrestling that's all that needs to be said,and I'm not alone in that fact.


I don't want that though. I'd delegate almost all the work if I went national because whilst I'm solid there are amazing options out there.

What are five things he's really awesome at? You're arguing he's good at this.


----------



## thisissting (Aug 14, 2018)

Chip Chipperson said:


> You're right, Cornette faked an email just to make Tony look bad.


So the stooge 'forgets' to show it to cornette and then decides to bring it up after the event. Go on pull the other one. Lol


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yes. He has survived because of Herb Abrams and Dixie Carter. Great company to be in


Considering it's not multiple choice your retort falls pretty flat.Your own poll shows you and your Jelly views are in the minority bud.

Sorry to break it to you but Not everyone hates aew or TK like you,the poll only reinforces that.


----------



## thisissting (Aug 14, 2018)

The Wood said:


> Give Chip $100 million, a spot on TNT and find out.
> 
> The email was real. Deal with it.


Prove it. If he had any talent he would have made it by now. His shows must be so bad as he won't even offer them up to us to review on here. I promise to only overstep the line in as far as cornette will go in my honest review of them lol. Go on let's see some of your shows seeing as you are better promoter than Tony kahn.


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I don't want that though. I'd delegate almost all the work if I went national because whilst I'm solid there are amazing options out there.
> 
> What are five things he's really awesome at? You're arguing he's good at this.


1. Making a guy who has been undefeated for a year and a half and your world champion for almost a year still likeable. 

2. Putting on some solid wrestling matches that could have been on ppv when it comes to quality. 

3. Listening to fans. For example why OC/Dark Order guy got moved, same thing with Baker/Swolle.

4. The entire idea of DARK and what it represents.

5. Giving talent more freedom (even if that's not a good idea sometimes)

Thats all I got, and honestly I don't feel very comfortable on even saying some of this stuff. But thats what came to me off the top of my head.


----------



## thisissting (Aug 14, 2018)

3venflow said:


> lol at this thread. It's not really its existence per se, but the relentless persistence, day after day, week after week. At least the old school trolls on RSPW had funny gimmicks.
> 
> I have The Wood on ignore which made the board slightly more bearable, now for the other. 2,000 posts in one month between them, seldom with a good thing to say. Imagine they put this effort into _liking_ stuff instead of hating it, they might then be productive members of society.


Totally agree. How do i put someone on ignore. Both chip and wood are getting binned like donald trump.


----------



## rich110991 (Aug 27, 2020)

I really feel sorry for you that you choose to spend your time trolling and being negative online. I mean that genuinely to be fair.


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

thisissting said:


> Totally agree. How do i put someone on ignore. Both chip and wood are getting binned like donald trump.


Click on the person's name and go to their profile. There is the ignore button there.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I don't want that though. I'd delegate almost all the work if I went national because whilst I'm solid there are amazing options out there.
> 
> What are five things he's really awesome at? You're arguing he's good at this.


Just come up with 5 things you dislike and put me on the other side of that.

You're arguing he's the worst and I disagree.I don't really see anything that I think he is horrible at.I love 90% of what AEW is and I'm behind where they are going and what they are trying to achieve.


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

thisissting said:


> Totally agree. How do i put someone on ignore. Both chip and wood are getting binned like donald trump.


Click their name to open their profile, then 'Ignore' and job done.


----------



## thisissting (Aug 14, 2018)

Klitschko said:


> Click on the person's name and go to their profile. There is the ignore button there.


Thank fuck there is a god.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

thisissting said:


> Prove it. If he had any talent he would have made it by now. His shows must be so bad as he won't even offer them up to us to review on here. I promise to only overstep the line in as far as cornette will go in my honest review of them lol. Go on let's see some of your shows seeing as you are better promoter than Tony kahn.


Guaranteed his promotion is guilty of half the shit he bitches about.He is seriously jealous of AEW it only grows every post lol.


----------



## Boldgerg (Apr 2, 2017)

To be fair Khan is a complete cock head if something genuinely massive doesn't happen tonight now. 

There's hyping up your show and then there's just spewing complete and utter bollocks and misleading people.


----------



## thisissting (Aug 14, 2018)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Guaranteed his promotion is guilty of half the shit he bitches about.He is seriously jealous of AEW it only grows every post lol.


Exactly, let's see if he runs a perfect ship and is entitled to pass judgement. If not then he can just shut the f up. Funny how he never let's us see his stuff. It might be good but it could be rank rotten for all we know.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Comes off as you being jealous since you're a promoter too,just on the lower tier.jealous of well let's see.....money,tv deal,contracted talent.....
> 
> Tony and AEW have single handedly brought me back to wrestling that's all that needs to be said,and I'm not alone in that fact.
> 
> ...





thisissting said:


> So the stooge 'forgets' to show it to cornette and then decides to bring it up after the event. Go on pull the other one. Lol


I wouldn’t read something preemptively either. You look foolish if it is a lie. The email was dated. And Reby is apparently getting upset about it, so why get upset about anlie



thisissting said:


> Prove it. If he had any talent he would have made it by now. His shows must be so bad as he won't even offer them up to us to review on here. I promise to only overstep the line in as far as cornette will go in my honest review of them lol. Go on let's see some of your shows seeing as you are better promoter than Tony kahn.


Do you know what shape the wrestling industry is in right now? You can’t just make millions of dollars with a grassroots promotion, hahaha. And the state of the industry is not going to get any better with AEW chasing people away at 



Klitschko said:


> 1. Making a guy who has been undefeated for a year and a half and your world champion for almost a year still likeable.
> 
> 2. Putting on some solid wrestling matches that could have been on ppv when it comes to quality.
> 
> ...


I love you as a poster, but i



rich110991 said:


> I really feel sorry for you that you choose to spend your time trolling and being negative online. I mean that genuinely to be fair.


This is a perfect reasonable discussion. If it’s such a troll, name someone worse.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

thisissting said:


> So the stooge 'forgets' to show it to cornette and then decides to bring it up after the event. Go on pull the other one. Lol


Did you listen? He didn't forget, he got the email and said he thought it was so ludicrous that it must be fake and someone messing with him. Then the match happened.



thisissting said:


> Prove it. If he had any talent he would have made it by now. His shows must be so bad as he won't even offer them up to us to review on here. I promise to only overstep the line in as far as cornette will go in my honest review of them lol. Go on let's see some of your shows seeing as you are better promoter than Tony kahn.


So, we've been through this before but I won't post my work here because with my business name you can instantly get my personal details such as name, address, phone number etc.

I genuinely have fears that some of you would go off the rails and chase up family members, friends etc.

Bradboyd did confirm yesterday in rants that the guys I book that he's seen look more marketable and have better presence then Bucks, Darby etc.

The only ones I've shared my promotion name with are the guys I trust not to spread it. I won't jeopardise my privacy to prove a point.



Klitschko said:


> 1. Making a guy who has been undefeated for a year and a half and your world champion for almost a year still likeable.
> 
> 2. Putting on some solid wrestling matches that could have been on ppv when it comes to quality.
> 
> ...


Yeah okay I'll give you 2, 3 and 5 although 2 is more down to the wrestlers and agents.



rich110991 said:


> I really feel sorry for you that you choose to spend your time trolling and being negative online. I mean that genuinely to be fair.


Why bro? Got a nicely paid job with no financial issues, beautiful girlfriend of almost five years, loving family, run wrestling shows which was a dream from teenagehood. Life is good.

I'm also not trolling and never do. I genuinely feel the way I do. I don't watch Dynamite, think it's awesome and then just shit on it to rev people up...


----------



## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

Alright_Mate said:


> I find it strange both are from Australia.
> 
> Chip and Wood could be the same person.
> 
> ...


I don't agree with everything either of them say, but us Aussies always back each other no matter what. Gold and green before anything


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Cmon @The Wood, I had to scrape the bottom of the barell here hahaha.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

TKO Wrestling said:


> See this topic shouldn't even exist. Tony is at worst the 4th best promoter in the last 5 decades. At worst.


Top 4 in the last 50 years off of one year. That's jumping the gun super quick


----------



## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

By the way Reby is ranting, it certainly makes it look like the email was legit.


----------



## thisissting (Aug 14, 2018)

This ignore button is great. That's two shit stirring attention seekers gone. Thank fuck.


----------



## thisissting (Aug 14, 2018)

La Parka said:


> By the way Reby is ranting, it certainly makes it look like the email was legit.


It personally mentioned her in an insulting manner and talks about her husband and family I imagine whoever wrote it she might be pissed. She is a crazy bitch but fair game here not that I chose to read shite on twitter.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Guaranteed his promotion is guilty of half the shit he bitches about.He is seriously jealous of AEW it only grows every post lol.


Hmm, admittedly yes I've made some mistakes but those mistakes give me experience.

I'll give you an example, last year I ran a show which I absolutely hated I class it as my worst show ever. A wrestling school we were affiliated with asked me to start booking their guys and to appease the trainer I did.

The students came in and were awful but also our scheduled main event had a botched run in, unnecessary violence etc. Just a really shitty show and I was angry about it

So what I did is forced myself to rewatch it and made a list of what I hated. I think I dropped 8 guys, I was unhappy with production which I fixed up, I put some ground rules down for matches etc.

We came back two months later and put on what I'd consider a top three show for us.

That's what makes a good promoter, being able to recognise what's gone wrong and fixing it.

As for jealousy, like I said before I'm very hands on and wouldn't like having to delegate so much. I have the same style as Heyman who liked to have his fingerprints all over things. Before someone calls me arrogant I'm nowhere near Heyman's level obviously...


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Chip, I would genuenly love to see your show one day. Sounds very NWA'ish if that makes sense.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Hmm, admittedly yes I've made some mistakes but those mistakes give me experience.
> 
> I'll give you an example, last year I ran a show which I absolutely hated I class it as my worst show ever. A wrestling school we were affiliated with asked me to start booking their guys and to appease the trainer I did.
> 
> ...


Tbh I dont care about hearing about your promotion.If you're not going to actually show stuff then what's the point of basically telling made up storys?

I've already told you multiple times it comes off as jealous whenever you give your"this is how chip would have booked it"BS.Your not a better promoter then TK.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

thisissting said:


> Prove it. If he had any talent he would have made it by now. His shows must be so bad as he won't even offer them up to us to review on here. I promise to only overstep the line in as far as cornette will go in my honest review of them lol. Go on let's see some of your shows seeing as you are better promoter than Tony kahn.


Even if his shows are good they'd never get picked up. The Aussie market for wrestling isn't big enough for it, there's some great promotions in my state and others that have had some great talent in them but the support for wrestling isn't big enough for any of them to go big unfortunately.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Klitschko said:


> Cmon @The Wood, I had to scrape the bottom of the barell here hahaha.


Haha, I could feel the effort you put in, mate! An A+ for that! 



thisissting said:


> This ignore button is great. That's two shit stirring attention seekers gone. Thank fuck.


Ironically this post can only be for attention.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Klitschko said:


> Chip, I would genuenly love to see your show one day. Sounds very NWA'ish if that makes sense.


I would describe it as a modern throwback. More leaning towards Power than anything else out there. I loved Power and was inspired by it.

I encourage the guys to keep kayfabe and not do stupid stuff


----------



## thisissting (Aug 14, 2018)

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Even if his shows are good they'd never get picked up. The Aussie market for wrestling isn't big enough for it, there's some great promotions in my state and others that have had some great talent in them but the support for wrestling isn't big enough for any of them to go big unfortunately.


So no recordings of his work exists? Usually good things get recorded. Someone should find a clip and post it up we can do a commentary. That's if he is really a promoter at all...


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Even if his shows are good they'd never get picked up. The Aussie market for wrestling isn't big enough for it, there's some great promotions in my state and others that have had some great talent in them but the support for wrestling isn't big enough for any of them to go big unfortunately.


This is correct. There aren't big enough stars here in Australia so even if I was given a hundred million we'd struggle to do a competitive number to AEW.

For those wondering the last RAW rating I saw many years back was about 35,000 people. Our biggest sports don't really rate into the millions unless it's a big game.

Australia at best could support a small national promotion on the level of like a Smoky Mountain or Impact but nothing like WWE, AEW, WCW etc


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

The vote poll says it all. Tony Khan isn't even close to being the "worst" wrestling promoter  



Chip Chipperson said:


> Hmm, admittedly yes I've made some mistakes but those mistakes give me experience.
> 
> I'll give you an example, last year I ran a show which I absolutely hated I class it as my worst show ever. A wrestling school we were affiliated with asked me to start booking their guys and to appease the trainer I did.
> 
> ...


Yikes, that's a lot of bragging for a failing wrestling promoter who's jealous about Tony Khan thriving with his wrestling promotion.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

thisissting said:


> So no recordings of his work exists? Usually good things get recorded. Someone should find a clip and post it up we can do a commentary. That's if he is really a promoter at all...


He's referring to TV. I have a YouTube page, website, social media etc


----------



## Alright_Mate (Jul 21, 2014)

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> I don't agree with everything either of them say, but us Aussies always back each other no matter what. Gold and green before anything


Do all Aussies lick each other’s arses?

Weird trend going on here.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

DammitChrist said:


> The vote poll says it all. Tony Khan isn't even close to being the "worst" wrestling promoter
> 
> 
> 
> Yikes, that's a lot of bragging for a failing wrestling promoter who's jealous about Tony Khan thriving with his wrestling promotion.


We had this discussion yesterday and you ran away. Your argument was unless you're one of the three biggest in the world you're a failure.

I can tell you that this year on my tax form the business profited a few thousand dollars. We've also just signed a deal to be regular entertainment at an event in 2021 so whilst I'm not having WWE type success I'm still having some minor success which I'm happy with


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

For all these people laughing at the thread, I don’t see too many people coming up with names.


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Two Sheds said:


> The UWF did not last very long (hence why he is the worst) but Fury Hour did air nationally on SportsChannel America for about a year. He also had some BIG names like Bruno and I believe Andre even appeared a couple times until Vince put a stop to it.
> 
> If you have not seen the Dark Side of the Ring episode on the UWF, it is worth watching. Herb was all kinds of special.


Despite not being a wrestling nerd I did hear about this guy. Christ he was incompetent. 

@Chip Chipperson my answer depends upon the overall future of AEW. If it doesn't last beyond 3 years like LU then yes his as bad as Dario cortez for modern history. If not then no.

That woman's shot at Sammy was also unnecessary. His physique is fine


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The Wood said:


> For all these people laughing at the thread, I don’t see too many people coming up with names.


Herb Abrams if he counts I'm happy to concede. Dixie and Eric I disagree with.

Khan currently second worst


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

The Wood said:


> For all these people laughing at the thread, I don’t see too many people coming up with names.


No one is putting that much effort into a shit thread like this,don't read too much into it.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

I’d maybe go with Jim Herd above Tony Khan too. There’s no way he’s better than Bischoff. Dixie did some crazy stuff, but she didn’t actually book the shows. I dunno, I don’t think I can rank Khan better than her either. He hasn’t earned that yet.

So he’s third worst for me. But he may drop.


----------



## Black_Power (Jul 28, 2011)

You've never either never heard of Heroes of Wrestling or Herb Abrams or just ignoring them because you don't like AEW, either way your opinion is dumb.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> No one is putting that much effort into a shit thread like this,don't read too much into it.


It'd take no effort if Khan is so good.

Ready?

Hey Chip, name a worse promoter than Paul Heyman

Dixie Carter.

Easy.



Black_Power said:


> You've never either never heard of Heroes of Wrestling or Herb Abrams or just ignoring them because you don't like AEW, either way your opinion is dumb.


If you'd read the thread you'd know there's questions on how Mainstream Abrams was and that Heroes of Wrestling doesn't count because it's not a promotion


----------



## somerandomfan (Dec 13, 2013)

Black_Power said:


> You've never either never heard of Heroes of Wrestling or Herb Abrams or just ignoring them because you don't like AEW, either way your opinion is dumb.


Herb Abrams has been mentioned plenty in this thread. Heroes of Wrestling was a one-off PPV, it wasn't a full on promotion, that'd be better compared to All In than it would be to AEW. (Not in terms of quality, in terms of categorization)


----------



## 304418 (Jul 2, 2014)

He’s imperfect, and leans into being Jacksonville Dixie at times. But no, he’s not the worst promoter ever. He creates an enjoyable program most weeks.

Anything I dislike or consider terrible in AEW (i.e. MJF & Jericho segments) I just skip it now.

It’s nice having a watchable program that isn’t NJPW or AAA. In many ways, AEW is a better watch than NJPW or AAA.


----------



## patpat (Feb 17, 2019)

After that booking of ftr vs the bucks he put out, cornette should shut up forever


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Anyone wanna change their vote after world changing announcement ended up being a returning WWE midcard guy?


----------



## somerandomfan (Dec 13, 2013)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Anyone wanna change their vote after world changing announcement ended up being a returning WWE midcard guy?


Was Pac the thing? I thought he meant the stupid fucking segment setting up Cody vs Shaq was supposed to be it.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

somerandomfan said:


> Was Pac the thing? I thought he meant the stupid fucking segment setting up Cody vs Shaq was supposed to be it.


It was PAC. Check his Twitter he was begging people to stick around until the end. Was sad.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Anyone wanna change their vote after world changing announcement ended up being a returning WWE midcard guy?


PM the name of your promotion?


----------



## somerandomfan (Dec 13, 2013)

Chip Chipperson said:


> It was PAC. Check his Twitter he was begging people to stick around until the end. Was sad.


Ah, I'm fine with the return and glad Pac is back but I wouldn't say him coming back "changed the world of wrestling", maybe if he just said AEW he'd have something. Even then while it was still big in AEW if kind of felt a bit flat, could have been way more exciting if they didn't make a big deal that he was going to have a video last week, and then giving him a vignette last week, and then bringing him back the next week. Had it just been a surprise return would have been better.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

patpat said:


> After that booking of ftr vs the bucks he put out, cornette should shut up forever


This is a weird thread to bring this up in, but I’ll bite. I wouldn’t stress the “we’re not cooperating part,” but the actual match being rougher, stiffer and more of a “shoot style” is actually brilliant. Would have gotten people hooked for more. Now everybody has seen this match and it hasn’t made a lick of difference.


----------



## Patrix79 (Oct 21, 2020)

He could learn a thing or 2 from Jim Cornette.
Corny's first and last day at AEW


----------



## deadcool (May 4, 2006)

midgetlover69 said:


> what makes you so sure hes such a smart guy? Or that he knows what hes doing?


Before I answer the question, what do you know about Tony Khan aside from the fact that he runs AEW and that his father owns AEW?


----------



## midgetlover69 (Nov 27, 2016)

deadcool said:


> Before I answer the question, what do you know about Tony Khan aside from the fact that he runs AEW and that his father owns AEW?


Lol ok lets say I know nothing. Im dying to know what point youre trying to make


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

deadcool said:


> Before I answer the question, what do you know about Tony Khan aside from the fact that he runs AEW and that his father owns AEW?


He has two bought sports positions and allegedly runs a sports media analytics company that does...something. Made Jacksonville and Fulham two of the worst teams in their respective sports.

Apparently a nice guy, but pretty starstruck. Claims to be a fan of all sorts of wrestling, but is very naive and unprofessional in negotiations.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The Wood said:


> He has two bought sports positions and allegedly runs a sports media analytics company that does...something. Made Jacksonville and Fulham two of the worst teams in their respective sports.
> 
> Apparently a nice guy, but pretty starstruck. Claims to be a fan of all sorts of wrestling, but is very naive and unprofessional in negotiations.


Allegedly wanks dogs but he adamantly denies this.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Allegedly wanks dogs but he adamantly denies this.


Dogs reportedly have gone unsatisfied as well.


----------



## deadcool (May 4, 2006)

The Wood said:


> He has two bought sports positions and allegedly runs a sports media analytics company that does...something. Made Jacksonville and Fulham two of the worst teams in their respective sports.
> 
> Apparently a nice guy, but pretty starstruck. Claims to be a fan of all sorts of wrestling, but is *very naive and unprofessional in negotiations.*


Did he make sh** jokes in negotiation meetings (that's what a certain son-in-law did with USA)? What unprofessional behavior did he show during negotiations with Warner Media?


----------



## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

He also looks like one of the typical skinny nerds you'd see watching wrestling too, definitely got his head dunked in the toilet in high school.


----------



## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

deadcool said:


> Did he make sh** jokes in negotiation meetings (that's what a certain son-in-law did with USA)? What unprofessional behavior did he show during negotiations with Warner Media?


He texted Punk a contract offer while he told him to offer him a contract in person. That’s unprofessional when negotiating.

ESPN: Was it an offer via text?
Punk: It was texted through three people and an offer came in through text. This is like a month ago, maybe.
ESPN: An offer for All Out?
Punk: I think it was just a general offer. I never could have done the last one in Vegas [Double or Nothing], because I was in California for CFFC.











CM Punk Says He Received an Offer from AEW Via Text Message


Former WWE star CM Punk has confirmed he recently received an offer from All Elite Wrestling ... via text message.




www.prowrestlingsheet.com


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Okay so @Klitschko this is the way I see it. Just finished it now that Dynamite is over. This may get long and I understand if you don't feel like reading it all, but if I'm to explain why I think Tony wins "Promoter of the Year" then I don't see any other way around it. I'll take the time to explain myself to you seeing as I don't consider you someone who just hates the guy for simply existing.

First off, for me, when I talk about what makes a good promoter, I not only count ticket sales and TV deals, but I also count booking and the presentation of talent as factors that are just as important. In the original post, Chipperson says nothing about ticket sales and selling out arenas, he is instead talking about an email about Guevera and expenses for the cinematic match that came from some random chick that no one knows. In Chipperson's mind, Tony using his own money to try and make the best cinematic match possible for his promotion for the sake of entertainment = WOAT promoter. He then goes on to talk about his booking, his eye for talent, business acumen etc. I bring all of this up because I can't be the only one who sees the presentation of on-screen talent, business skills, booking skills, and promotion as ALL factors that go into making a good promoter, not just selling tickets. 

Vince McMahon has been at this for 35 years. To get to this point, he built his promotion through the likes of Hogan, Austin, Rock, Flair, Piper, DX, etc in an era when wrestling was booming and mainstream. In an era that was easier for the casuals to watch. He has had over 3 decades to build the WWE machine to a point that any match or PPV he promotes will sell without any real effort, as we can clearly see every month. This is because of the WWE name. Wrestlemania sells out arenas like in La Parka's posted picture because its Wrestlemania, a PPV that has been built up over 3 decades as the biggest show in wrestling. Not for its non-existent build every year for the last 5 years. 

So the way I look at it, you can't take Tony Khan and his one year of AEW being in business and compare it to that. That's surface level. So you have to go deeper. A full assessment will have to come down to the rest of what makes a good promoter too, which is booking, presentation of talent, and business acumen, but I will also touch on Tony's promoter skills from what I can see since that's what some may look at most. Most of this will be in comparison to Vince since everyone knows him and because he's the only real competition.


*Presentation of Talent: *This is very important for anyone that can be considered a great promoter. For a promotion to be able to promote itself as worthwhile, the viewer needs to look at the talent and think that they are worth seeing or investing your time in. Then you're willing to spend money to see said talent, which leads to arena sell-outs, which I will touch on shortly. In my opinion, he presents his talent very well. I am emotionally invested in all of the talents and I can relate to most of them. Hangman because of his love for a good Whiskey, Ivelisse because of the way she represents where she's from with pride, Sammy and his love for chatting up chicks, or Private Party and their partying ways for example. 

Vince McMahon this year has presented his talent dreadfully. The last 5 years actually. Everyone feels the same and you can't invest in anyone. Everyone is a jobber and no one matters. Keith Lee for example is just another guy. Aleister Black is dead. You can't get invested in anyone outside of the obvious like Roman Reigns (only recently) who I can relate to with the whole taking care of the family thing, Sasha Banks, Randy Orton, and the NXT talent, which Triple H runs, not Vince. When you present your talent in the way that Tony has presented them on year one, you want to see them. He doesn't have the same guys on rotation every week so it keeps the show fresh and you're not tired of their faces. On RAW, we see the same matches from the same talent to the point where everyone is over-exposed to death. We are getting Sasha Banks vs Asuka at SSeries and we have seen it about 7 times this year already. Everyone hasn't been losing for 6 months straight outside of the top guys in AEW and the record system makes the talent look like guys to watch out for. Everyone for the most part feels like a semi-big to big deal to me when I watch. Good promotion here means promoting your talent in a way where you want to see them because they are built up and interesting. 

*Booking of Shows:* Being a good promoter also means entertaining your audience. In my opinion, if we're comparing year one of AEW as far as entertainment value to WWE in the last 6-8 years, AEW wins easily. But that's subjective. AEW shows for me are extremely entertaining. AEW has had so many hot and compelling angles in the last 12 months. Too many to list right now. All starting from the Cody/Dustin brother vs brother angle. It was off to the races after that. In WWE you have Roman's turn, Sasha's rise (which was mostly botched), and Orton vs Edge which is dead in the water right now. That's about it. PPV quality matches on TV are the norm in AEW and the viewer has fun watching most weeks from what I can see on social media, forums, and Dynamite/PPV reviews. The parking lot brawl a while back was gold and Fenix vs Penta was phenomenal to name a few. 

How many weeks do we have to wait to get something like that on RAW or SD? In AEW, it's a weekly thing. For free. Expectations are high and his show is dissected to death because most know subconsciously that it's the A show and even the slightest bit of comedy or bad will be called out as not belonging on said A show. If you book your shows well, that leads to fan interest growing, which we have been seeing all year. Some are thinking as they read that "But Prosper, 1.4 million on cable to 800K!!!" Again, the cable audience is not an indicator of the entire audience. Not when OC has a video that has gotten 22 million views and when fan support is growing huge in Europe. I will always laugh at WWE for their RAW ratings, but I will never say that they lost their audience. I know better. 

*AEW Dark:* Being a good promoter means showcasing talent and to be always scouting. There is so much good talent on DARK. Tony gives them air time and showcases them to 200-400K viewers every week. WWE is using it as a showcase center and have signed Ben Carter, wanted to sign Bowens, and now are looking to take Elayna Black. WWE has showcased in the past and sometimes they do on NXT, so this is more so me pointing out that he understands what it means to continually be looking at and scouting new talent. Not saying that WWE doesn't scout. WOAT promoters don't care about that. This is essential for any promoter who wants to find hot acts or talent that can get over with his/her audience. In year one I have seen more good talent come through AEW than I have WWE. Given, WWE has a much larger and filled out roster, but they also have 7 hours of content with an entire WWE Network where they can showcase more heavily.

*International Growth, Business Acumen, and Sold Out Arenas*: This goes into his promotion capability. Prior to the pandemic, Tony was able to build a new wrestling promotion in 2020 capable of selling out shows in minutes. As a newbie. That's fuckin impressive. His shows always had raving fans there who really brought the energy. Compare this to WWE pre-pandemic in 2019-2020, where you'd have their audience throwing beach balls in boredom and screaming "CM Punk" and "AEW" in frustration of the terrible product. (check Kofi vs Rollins on RAW after Mania for example) When crowds come back and everyone feels safe, they will continue to sell out instantly. Again, I know Vince sells out too, but as said before this has been built up and he doesn't have to do much. Tony has to go hard, and it's been paying off heavy. International growth has been great as there have been reports of AEW being more popular in the UK than WWE. Dynamite ITV numbers are higher in the UK than RAW/SD. @3venflow, who lives in the UK, was able to get the proof in the ratings thread if you want to see. The guy has been able to re-build fan interest during the pandemic, which he has been praised for, something that Vince and Triple H hadn't been able to do this year prior to Roman's heel turn and he is also the first to safely allow a percentage of fans into the arena. 

They have secured deals internationally for streaming services and have secured deals with TNT with a second show coming. Deals with BR Live and FITE TV. And one that I'm forgetting in Italy with expansion plans for India. The plan was for Fyter Fest to be held in the UK this year. He's got a video game coming out already. This is all good promotion. Expansion only comes from good promotion in wrestling. Or else you end up like NWA or ROH which haven't grown at all. Granted, Tony has more money to throw around, so I understand there are other factors. All of this is coming from someone who is attracting fans and great reception to his product. A great promoter can sell tickets, and just like Vince, Tony can sell them too, except he is doing it without 3 decades of a household name to help him. He's doing it from scratch. A WOAT promoter wouldn't be able to have this much success in 12 months. The guy is good with the media, he knows the promoter jive talk, he has a great social media strategy that borrows from WWE's, and he has post-show scrums where he takes any question from any reporter. When has Vince taken questions from fans after a major PPV? He doesn't give a shit what the fans think. Which I half agree with and half don't. Because some wrestling fans are legit mental cases who will shit on him regardless. But all of this makes a great promoter, especially when you're winging it. 

*Partnerships with other promotions*: The guy for sure has dealings with NWA, TNA, and probably even New Japan at this point. A good promoter understands that for the good of the industry, it's better to work with people rather than against them. Not saying that Vince doesn't understand this, but after being burned by WCW and not having any competition until now, he is not about working with others. Where we are at now is at a point where AEW can partner with these other 3 promotions if things work out, and give wrestling fans something to truly drool over. Invasion angles, G1 type tournaments, etc. As a promoter, it is admirable that he has been able to have working deals with NWA and Impact within 12 months. This takes business skills, presentation skills, and a product that others want to work with. These people wouldn't give him the time of day if he was seen as the WOAT promoter. 

*Outside Talent Interest:* Outside of the obvious Randy Orton, who was never going to leave anyway in AEW's first month and burn bridges, or CM Punk who lost his passion, or Tessa who remains to be seen, I think it's safe to say that most talent would love to spend some time in AEW. Backstage morale is good and talent are generally happy according to what we see online. If not, we would hear about it, because we certainly hear about it in WWE from talent like Sasha Banks, Liv Morgan, and Rusev for example. We see reports all the time about how talent are not happy. And this doesn't only come from Meltzer. A good promoter is also a good leader and Vince has not been a good leader this year from what I can gather. All time leader? Of course. But worthy of winning "Promoter of the year"? Nope, not in my opinion. 


The fact that Tony Khan has been able to build AEW to where it is now in year one speaks volumes. The guy is a beast. But this isn't a "Tony can do no wrong" thing from me. I have my criticisms too: 

1.) The women's division needs better booking as the talent is there. He doesn't really showcase these women and doesn't give them consistent storylines. Granted it's a TV time issue, so once the 2nd show arrives, if the division is still in this state, then I will continue to criticize him for it. 

2.) He has no balance of heels and babyfaces right now. There are way too many heels in AEW and it kind of seems like it's just Moxley, Hangman, and Darby on the babyface side. This needs to be evened out, especially with Cody probably turning soon and Omega already essentially being a heel with his extravagant entrance and teases. 

3.) Big guys are fed to top stars too often. Brodie is the biggest example. We still don't know what's going on with him as he hasn't even been seen in public since losing but I will reserve my judgment on this until he comes back. They could be repackaging him to destroy Dark Order for all we know. Lance Archer is a fumbled ball. 

4.) Slow burn of storylines. I appreciate a slow burn as I am not trained to expect instant gratification on every little thing every 30 seconds, but some of these stories do need to slightly speed up. 

5.) He gets too happy with his Tweets. But good promotion is hype, so as long as he doesn't over-hype too often he is fine there.

All of these things can be fixed though. 

So all in all, if we're talking about who sells the most tickets then of course Vince wins. Its WWE. But as said earlier, and as Chipperson relayed in the OP, it's not only that. There is nothing you can do overall to beat a promoter who has 35 years and a household name that people look at as synonymous with wrestling. If you look at Wrestlemania in most recent years though, these events no longer have any build. Every Road to WM is just as bad if not worse than the Road to Full Gear this year. So he's just coasting and banking on the fact that it's gonna sell regardless. But if you look at Tony in year one who has put in work and has done such an admirable job in building up to every other PPV, I think it's no contest. And this is a newbie we're talking about. That alone warrants praise. 

Vince easily wins "Promoter of the Century" as it stands, but if you're comparing Vince, a guy who has been coasting this year (and the last 5-8 years actually) on the WWE name and not giving a shit about the other factors above, to Tony Khan who has checked all of those boxes this year, how could Tony not win "Promoter of the Year?" 

This is all my opinion and how I genuinely see it. Doesn't make me right or wrong. But if anyone disagrees with my assessment I'd love to logically debate with them.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Im sorry but this is a lie and the amount of bullshit fake reports on the internet these days in every industry is out of hand. This match was insanely simple and didnt have anything extensive and 300 people crew is the dumbest thing ive ever heard in a long time. I work in film and we dont even have close to 300 with a million moving parts on a big show or movie. No person that was hired to do a job would have all these nonsense things to say. 

I understand your odd obsessive passion to write more than any person on this entire website but as time goes on it feels more like you're truly trolling everyone to amuse you instead of being constructive. I cant understand why you want to write so much about a promotion you simply dont seem to care for. Other than the fact again i feel its this odd trolling satisfaction you get. It is simply not healthy to hate something this much and give it this much attention. I absolutely hate wwe but i dont care to waste my life bitching over and over again. Ive never spent a day in my life in the wwe section 


You contiue to find odd nonsense online to report it here and its a bit odd. You probably also believed that xbox series x was releasing smoke inside and not the fact people were trolling and blowing vape inside it. Your behavior is becoming veey strange in here. And hell you even know i agree with you on certain things but im also not ridiculous but this is

The tna compound match had way more expensive things happening .

Anyways its more embarrassing that i wasted my time to even comment on this that comes off entirely trollish and fake.

And i agree another click bait post by you about some dirt nonsnese you found online.


You spend way to much time online dude.


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## A PG Attitude (Nov 5, 2012)

You're a sad man to put so much energy into something you don't like Chip.


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## Qudhufo (Jun 25, 2019)

prosperwithdeen said:


> Okay so @Klitschko this is the way I see it. Just finished it now that Dynamite is over. This may get long and I understand if you don't feel like reading it all, but if I'm to explain why I think Tony wins "Promoter of the Year" then I don't see any other way around it. I'll take the time to explain myself to you seeing as I don't consider you someone who just hates the guy for simply existing.
> 
> First off, for me, when I talk about what makes a good promoter, I not only count ticket sales and TV deals, but I also count booking and the presentation of talent as factors that are just as important. In the original post, Chipperson says nothing about ticket sales and selling out arenas, he is instead talking about an email about Guevera and expenses for the cinematic match that came from some random chick that no one knows. In Chipperson's mind, Tony using his own money to try and make the best cinematic match possible for his promotion for the sake of entertainment = WOAT promoter. He then goes on to talk about his booking, his eye for talent, business acumen etc. I bring all of this up because I can't be the only one who sees the presentation of on-screen talent, business skills, booking skills, and promotion as ALL factors that go into making a good promoter, not just selling tickets.
> 
> ...


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## Lorromire (Jun 17, 2014)

TK just guaranteed a second show on TNT and announced 1 console game + 2 mobile games. They're still popular despite the pandemic and, from my understanding, are making a positive revenue. I've seen way worse promoters. Dixie and Jeff Jarret were terrible, Dixie moreso. Vince has been horrible for the last 15 years in everything else, but he's a great promoter despite his horrible use and presentation of talent.


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## Jobber Heel (Aug 14, 2020)

TK won't be doing himself any favors by booking Shaq vs Choady Rhodes. Wasn't a good idea when WCW had Karl Malone and Dennis Rodman, despite TK probably loving it.


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Qudhufo said:


>


Wasn't for you.


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## Qudhufo (Jun 25, 2019)

prosperwithdeen said:


> Wasn't for you.


I know.


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## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

It's really nice to see that approximately 62% folks who voted on here have some sense :bjpenn



shandcraig said:


> Im sorry but this is a lie and the amount of bullshit fake reports on the internet these days in every industry is out of hand. This match was insanely simple and didnt have anything extensive and 300 people crew is the dumbest thing ive ever heard in a long time. I work in film and we dont even have close to 300 with a million moving parts on a big show or movie. No person that was hired to do a job would have all these nonsense things to say.
> 
> I understand your odd obsessive passion to write more than any person on this entire website but as time goes on it feels more like you're truly trolling everyone to amuse you instead of being constructive. I cant understand why you want to write so much about a promotion you simply dont seem to care for. Other than the fact again i feel its this odd trolling satisfaction you get. It is simply not healthy to hate something this much and give it this much attention. I absolutely hate wwe but i dont care to waste my life bitching over and over again. Ive never spent a day in my life in the wwe section
> 
> ...


Yep, it's just very hard to believe that this alleged promoter has so much time on his hands to write 500-600 posts on here weekly where he just obsesses with criticizing a company he dislikes and continuously mocking ANOTHER wrestling promoter in Tony Khan just because his own wrestling promotion is struggling compared to AEW (or even ROH) :lol


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## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

prosperwithdeen said:


> Okay so @Klitschko this is the way I see it. Just finished it now that Dynamite is over. This may get long and I understand if you don't feel like reading it all, but if I'm to explain why I think Tony wins "Promoter of the Year" then I don't see any other way around it. I'll take the time to explain myself to you seeing as I don't consider you someone who just hates the guy for simply existing.
> 
> First off, for me, when I talk about what makes a good promoter, I not only count ticket sales and TV deals, but I also count booking and the presentation of talent as factors that are just as important. In the original post, Chipperson says nothing about ticket sales and selling out arenas, he is instead talking about an email about Guevera and expenses for the cinematic match that came from some random chick that no one knows. In Chipperson's mind, Tony using his own money to try and make the best cinematic match possible for his promotion for the sake of entertainment = WOAT promoter. He then goes on to talk about his booking, his eye for talent, business acumen etc. I bring all of this up because I can't be the only one who sees the presentation of on-screen talent, business skills, booking skills, and promotion as ALL factors that go into making a good promoter, not just selling tickets.
> 
> ...


@prosperwithdeen great post, and I really appreciate you typing all of that up. I may not agree 100% with everything in there but I see your point and know exactly what you are trying to say. I like that you acknowledged what he needs to fix and are not just pretending that they are perfect, and I see what you mean when you say that Kahn can't be compared to Vince who has decades in business, but that he has done quite a few things in AEW's first year. Thank you for posting your thoughts. Its late here so I will reply more to your post tomorow because there is a lot you went over and we can do a fun little debate.


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## .christopher. (Jan 14, 2014)

When it's all said and done, he probably will be. Too early to label him that now, but it's a sad indictment of his performance that there's already a discussion to be had.


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## deadcool (May 4, 2006)

The Wood said:


> He has two bought sports positions and allegedly runs a sports media analytics company that does...something. Made Jacksonville and Fulham two of the worst teams in their respective sports.
> 
> Apparently a nice guy, but pretty starstruck. Claims to be a fan of all sorts of wrestling, but is very naive and unprofessional in negotiations.





Ozell Gray said:


> He texted Punk a contract offer while he told him to offer him a contract in person. That’s unprofessional when negotiating.
> 
> ESPN: Was it an offer via text?
> 
> ...


@The Wood @Ozell Gray The both of you are right. Khan was unprofessional and unscrupulous with this whole Punk thing. I remember during that time when they were going to have that big show in Illinois and they were literally yanking the audience every time a Punk question was asked. The right thing to do would have been something like "Hey, we are big fans of Punk but he is not scheduled to appear in any of our programming at this time." instead they kept feeding this garbage about how they "are in touch with Punk" and that they "talk with Punk all the time". And it's not just Khan, Cody was just as unscrupulous. I did not read that Punk interview but even back then I knew that Punk was not going to appear with the way that both Cody and Khan were responding to all the Punk questions.

Regarding Khan, aside from working for his Dad's football and soccer teams also has worked for and owns TruMedia Networks. Its an engineering firm that does sports analytics for multiple sports and has deals with ESPN, NFL, CBS Sports, MLB teams and more. This company from what I understand is profitable.

His work with AEW for the most part has been great. DoN had over 11k live attendance and 113k PPV buys. Those numbers are not easy to achieve especially in the landscape where there is only 1 major promotion in town. Not only that, most of AEW's PPVs have grossed over 100K PPV buys. As far as I know, neither TNA or GFW or ROH has come close to those numbers in 2019, 2020. His work has also resulted in a TV deal surpassed only by the WWE. They are also signing TV deals with European countries (in some cases replacing the ones that WWE has with the TV companies). These are all victories; yes smaller victories in the grand scheme of things but still victories. They have managed to do that from a brand new promotion with no legacy to build off of. It's not a small thing and this kind of performance absolves him from being the worst promoter or a bad promoter. 

Thats not to say that his average is 100% positive. He has made mistakes too like having fans in the arena during COVID. 

Give him half the time that Vince had with the WWE and see what he does.


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## Jokerface17 (Feb 22, 2016)

Jesus fucking Christ. 

Can we ban this asshat for trolling now?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## justin waynes (Feb 8, 2020)

no no no the current promoter of tna is the worst


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## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

I'm not sure about worst of all time. 

However, he's a money mark who is in way over his head and by the sounds of it getting too involved in something he has no idea about. Instead of getting an experienced team behind him, he letting everyone do what they like apart from when he's living out his attitude era fantasies. It's the same with Fulham, he's getting too involved in something he has no idea about and helping to ruin a football club. 

I've read interviews where the Bucks said All In 2 would have happened with or without TK and they were pushing ahead in taking it to the next level and creating their own promotion was the next step. 

TK reckons he would have created his own promotion regardless of All In, but I don't think so, if he was to do so, he would have already done it.


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## Mercian (Jun 26, 2020)

justin waynes said:


> no no no the current promoter of tna is the worst


It's been a while and even then it was an awfully hard watch

Chip has taken a lot of flak and I'm sure he knew what he was up against when he posted, it was a pefectly legitimate question which sadly for a few just became an attack on the Chipster
At least turn round and suggest Vince or Dixie or whatever , I get up look at the forum and find its almost Crocodile Dundee slurs , bit of decorum 

Herb Abrahams UWF was pretty damn good, dont go by Dark Side of the Ring, you can still find I believe the PPV's on YouTube. A superb roster including Steve Williams, Sid Vicious, Don Muraco, Pual Orndorff, Bob Orton, Cactus Jack, Bam Bam Bigelow , certainly their product at the time was absolutely fine


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## .747925 (Sep 2, 2020)

No way were there 300 crew for that match. Would've looked like a Hollywood movie if they put in that much effort.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

A PG Attitude said:


> You're a sad man to put so much energy into something you don't like Chip.


Who said I don't like the promotion? I like AEW when they do good, I'm excited to watch Full Gear actually with the high praise it's got just haven't had time because of work. I'll sit down this weekend with some popcorn and a Pepsi and watch the show.

And you best believe if it is awesome and lives up to the hype I'll praise it like I do every single time AEW does well.



DammitChrist said:


> It's really nice to see that approximately 62% folks who voted on here have some sense :bjpenn
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, it's just very hard to believe that this alleged promoter has so much time on his hands to write 500-600 posts on here weekly where he just obsesses with criticizing a company he dislikes and continuously mocking ANOTHER wrestling promoter in Tony Khan just because his own wrestling promotion is struggling compared to AEW (or even ROH) :lol


1. I generally post at work, you'll notice days will go by where I only post maybe 3-4 times in the day and then I will hit a whole heap of posts in a day. I work 12 hour shifts with a lot of downtime and I do a 3 hour return commute hence my responsiveness on here. On my days off I don't post that much at all unless the Mrs is at work and even then I'm generally chilling with a movie or a hobby.

2. I mock Tony Khan because he is bad not because I am upset about my own promotion. Also, I ask to you again because you said it was failing yesterday but how is it struggling? Every show I ran this year made money.

3. Most promotions are struggling compared to AEW or ROH. AEW is backed by an honest to god billionaire whilst ROH is backed by a billionaire company. What you're saying is that a local burger joint can't talk badly about McDonald's because McDonald's is worth billions and the local burger joint isn't. Dumb argument, just like yesterday...

4. Not sure if you've noticed but there is a pandemic going on. I can't run shows right now because all of the venues I operate from aren't allowing people in for entertainment events due to COVID.



Mercian said:


> It's been a while and even then it was an awfully hard watch
> 
> Chip has taken a lot of flak and I'm sure he knew what he was up against when he posted, it was a pefectly legitimate question which sadly for a few just became an attack on the Chipster
> At least turn round and suggest Vince or Dixie or whatever , I get up look at the forum and find its almost Crocodile Dundee slurs , bit of decorum
> ...


Personal attacks are a daily occurrence now and it's just water off a ducks back. Most of the things people say on here about me are incorrect so I can't really take offense to it.

The guy above for example calls me sad but I really enjoy life. I also enjoy the discussions on here when they're good. Only a handful of people actually participated in this thread which is a shame.


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## Brad Boyd (Jan 28, 2020)

Chip making a polarizing thread. Baha, what else is new. Regardless of his controversy, it makes for great discussion. Whoever's the promoter behind Impact right now is doing much worse.


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## thorn123 (Oct 10, 2019)

I don’t know much about promoters, but I know most are liars and two faced. Is Khan the same I wonder?


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## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

Most of the stuff people are giving credit to Tony Khan for Dixie Carter did too. Tv deals, video games, beating WWE viewership in UK.

Deadpool mentioned HHH. HHH has had a tiny fraction of the budget Tony Khan has had, loses his top stars to Raw and SD every few months and yet produces better tv. Who has AEW gotten as over as Sami Zayn or Bayley were in NXT in 2014-15 e.g.



TKO Wrestling said:


> See this topic shouldn't even exist. Tony is at worst the 4th best promoter in the last 5 decades. At worst.


I mean there is some horseshit written on this thread but you really think Khan is at same level as Vince Jr, Vince Sr, Gagne, Stu Hart, Don Owen, Fritz Von Erich, Paul Heyman, Jerry Jarrett, Crockett Jr, Boesch, Inoki..I mean really?

Bischoff gets shit on constantly but he turned around a company that was losing millions each year to one huge profitable and still drawing massive numbers when he stepped aside in late 99.


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## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Dixie Carter exists to be fair.
So does John Zandig.


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## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

validreasoning said:


> Most of the stuff people are giving credit to Tony Khan for Dixie Carter did too. Tv deals, video games, beating WWE viewership in UK.
> 
> Deadpool mentioned HHH. HHH has had a tiny fraction of the budget Tony Khan has had, loses his top stars to Raw and SD every few months and yet produces better tv. Who has AEW gotten as over as Sami Zayn or Bayley were in NXT in 2014-15 e.g.
> 
> ...


There are tons of wrestling promoters that have done great work - including the ones you mentioned. Also you have to think that you're seeing things with rose-tinted spectacles and you're retrospectively reviewing their work. Tony Khan has 1 year behind him. Way too early to judge him to be the best or the worst, IMO. So far he's done a great job. But he could end up being like Dixie Carter.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Optikk is All Elite said:


> Dixie Carter exists to be fair.
> So does John Zandig.


Dixie Carter did better.

Zandig wasn't mainstream but also did better. Highly respected under the deathmatch genre and took a company drawing 80-120 people to one that drew 500-600 and reached international fame.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

I’m still not seeing any real suggestions from the people acting like this is a ridiculous question, haha.


----------



## Shock Street (Oct 27, 2020)

I don't have enough experience watching wrestling to compare him to anyone else, but I will say he could easily improve.

PAC was hype but man, imagine if that video last week didn't happen? Woulda been a mega surprise. TK just needs to show things off the millisecond he can. Same happened with them talking about Shaq despite him not being able to appear. He had to tell us asap, couldn't wait to show us. Dude needs restraint.

On that same note of restraint, the matches just go too long on average. It makes them feel samey because we see everyones entire moveset every single time. I think this is because a lot of their stars came from the indies, so they had to get their shit in every time to make fans cuz their audience was always completely different in each place. Not the same on a network and part of TKs job should be reeling them back. Even though they may not want to pretend to be your friend, dissappointing the talent is sometimes for the best. You could actually probably fit them all in each week if you cooled the match length.


----------



## JC00 (Nov 20, 2011)

He's definitely the most naive money mark promoter ever. I mean pouring millions into a wrestling promotion booked by The Elite isn't something a good promoter does. There needs to be a fine line between the boss and everyone else, he's too worried about everyone liking him and his show. Like him tweeting out how there were big surprises happening and then is on video telling the crowd last night "Please stay". That ain't promoter stuff, that's a money mark that wants everyone to like his show


----------



## hardcorewrasslin (Jun 29, 2016)

Take your poll and shove it mate


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

hardcorewrasslin said:


> Take your poll and shove it mate


That’s a yes.


----------



## Jeripunk99 (Oct 16, 2017)

I dont care if he is the best promoter of all time. In the last 15 years the worst is Vince and its not close


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

The Wood said:


> That’s a yes.


He makes a good point though.

It’s beyond baffling how there’s a scary number of folks who genuinely believe that Tony Khan is the “worst” wrestling promoter of all time when he only has *one* full year behind him (let alone the fact that the majority of Dynamite episodes throughout AEW’s short history took place during a freaking pandemic). 

Thankfully, there’s a majority of people on here who know that the OP’s statement/question is just plain hyperbole.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

DammitChrist said:


> He makes a good point.
> 
> It’s beyond baffling how there’s a scary number of folks who genuinely believe that Tony Khan is the “worst” wrestling promoter of all time when he only has *one* full year behind him (let alone the fact that the majority of Dynamite episodes throughout AEW’s short history took place during a freaking pandemic).
> 
> Thankfully, there’s a majority of people on here who know that the OP’s statement/question is just plain hyperbole.


Then explain how someone is worse. If promoters used to be shit they wouldn’t even get a year grace period. You know you’re not supposed to learn on the job, right?


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Dixie Carter did better.
> 
> Zandig wasn't mainstream but also did better. Highly respected under the deathmatch genre and took a company drawing 80-120 people to one that drew 500-600 and reached international fame.


LMAO. Dixie Carter did better. Love it.


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## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

The Wood said:


> *Then explain how someone is worse.* If promoters used to be shit they wouldn’t even get a year grace period. You know you’re not supposed to learn on the job, right?


The vote poll here says it all really. That's honestly the only big explanation you really need.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

There's been a lot of companies that produced shows, tried to get on TV and either failed to get on TV or did for a short period of time. 

I'll use one as an example of a worse promoter than Khan. Herb Abrhams. Here is my entire argument on why he is worse than Khan from the UWF Wikipedia: 
"A February 1996 card called St. Valentine's Day Massacre was scheduled to be broadcast live from Grand Olympic Auditorium on Prime Sports Network, but was cancelled.[9] Zoogz Rift worked for the company during this time and claimed Abrams' cocaine addiction drained the company of money needed to produce such events.[10] Abrams died of a cocaine-related heart attack in July 1996 while still in New York." 

Say what you want about Khan over spending on the show but he at least over spent on his company and not on coke.


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Dixie Carter did better.
> 
> Zandig wasn't mainstream but also did better. Highly respected under the deathmatch genre and took a company drawing 80-120 people to one that drew 500-600 and reached international fame.


How did Dixie do better? Was it by not paying wrestlers, or screwing them over at any opportunity that opened up?


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

TKO Wrestling said:


> LMAO. Dixie Carter did better. Love it.


Not really a crazy statement. Given the company she promoted for has longevity and a couple home grown stars that are still valuable under her belt. 

Who's your top 5 promoters of the last 5 decades?


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Klitschko said:


> How did Dixie do better? Was it by not paying wrestlers, or screwing them over at any opportunity that opened up?


By having a promotion that ran as the number 2 in the US the entire time she heading. Helping to create homegrown stars or names like Styles, Joe, Daniels, Abyss, Roode, Eric Young, Aldis, and others who still have value today. Her promotion also had video games and international deals. 

Did she do scummy things, yes but what promoter doesn't. Did she do dumb things, yes, but what promoter doesn't. Like Tony she did very good considering the fact she had never been in the business before becoming an owner


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

RapShepard said:


> By having a promotion that ran as the number 2 in the US the entire time she heading. Helping to create homegrown stars or names like Styles, Joe, Daniels, Abyss, Roode, Eric Young, Aldis, and others who still have value today. Her promotion also had video games and international deals.
> 
> Did she do scummy things, yes but what promoter doesn't. Did she do dumb things, yes, but what promoter doesn't. Like Tony she did very good considering the fact she had never been in the business before becoming an owner


You're comparing these guys years later to AEW's talent which barely started getting showcased a year ago. Do you think AJ Styles was considered anything other then a really good cruiserweight a year into his TNA career? We don't know what will happen to Darby and MJF and other promising talent yet because its so early in their careers.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Klitschko said:


> You're comparing these guys years later to AEW's talent which barely started getting showcased a year ago. Do you think AJ Styles was considered anything other then a really good cruiserweight a year into his TNA career? We don't know what will happen to Darby and MJF and other promising talent yet because its so early in their careers.


You can't have it both ways, you can't knock her for things that happened years into her run as a promoter, but throw out positive things that happened years into her run as a promoter. You asked how she did it better I gave possible ways she could be viewed as doing it better. It's not her fault she's being compared to a rookie. Can Tony surpass her sure who knows. But as of now putting Tony over folk who did fairly well for a long period of time is a little bit of jumping the gun. Just like deeming him the worst ever despite his one year as a promoter went extremely well is jumping the gun. Easy argument he's had the best 1st year of any promoter who started from scratch.


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

RapShepard said:


> You can't have it both ways, you can't knock her for things that happened years into her run as a promoter, but throw out positive things that happened years into her run as a promoter. You asked how she did it better I gave possible ways she could be viewed as doing it better. It's not her fault she's being compared to a rookie. Can Tony surpass her sure who knows. But as of now putting Tony over folk who did fairly well for a long period of time is a little bit of jumping the gun. Just like deeming him the worst ever despite his one year as a promoter went extremely well is jumping the gun.* Easy argument he's had the best 1st year of any promoter who started from scratch.*


The bolded part is well-said and quite funny to me considering how it destroys the OP's question/argument, especially when he's managed to have a good enough year with most of his shows taking place DURING a pandemic :lol


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

TKO Wrestling said:


> LMAO. Dixie Carter did better. Love it.


She did though. She was in charge for 14 years.


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

RapShepard said:


> You can't have it both ways, you can't knock her for things that happened years into her run as a promoter, but throw out positive things that happened years into her run as a promoter. You asked how she did it better I gave possible ways she could be viewed as doing it better. It's not her fault she's being compared to a rookie. Can Tony surpass her sure who knows. But as of now putting Tony over folk who did fairly well for a long period of time is a little bit of jumping the gun. Just like deeming him the worst ever despite his one year as a promoter went extremely well is jumping the gun. Easy argument he's had the best 1st year of any promoter who started from scratch.


I agree with this post and don't really have anything to break down. I do feel that even with his mistakes he has probably had the best first year as a promoter, and again I'm limited with the amount of different companies I have seen so maybe there is someone that did better year one then him.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Wrong post sorry


----------



## Outlaw91 (Mar 31, 2011)

You can't be objective here unless you make a poll with many options and you have to choose who is the worst from a list.
This topic looks like you have to choose if you like the guy or you don't, mostly.
For example, I can't say I like the guy because I don't know him well enough but I appreciate him for putting togheter AEW. I also dislike Vince McMahon but I don't consider him the worst promoter.
The OP should have made a list of mainstream promoters with a little description for everyone and some well known big mistakes they've done in their careers.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

the_flock said:


> She did though. She was in charge for 14 years.


Dixie Carter was handed the keys to the WCW kingdom along with half of the main WCW stars at the end (Nash, Hall, Sting, Steiner, basically everyone that mattered other than Goldberg) and still managed to turn that company into Ring of Honor 2.0.


----------



## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

For someone who doesn't like AEW, you sure give a lot of your time to it.


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

TKO Wrestling said:


> Dixie Carter was handed the keys to the WCW kingdom along with half of the main WCW stars at the end (Nash, Hall, Sting, Steiner, basically everyone that mattered other than Goldberg) and still managed to turn that company into Ring of Honor 2.0.


The keys to the WCW kingdom which had been on the downward slope for 2 years and hadn't been in existence for over a year when she took over TNA. All the best stars were in WWE, the only ones available were those that didn't draw or were at or passed the tail end of their careers. 

TNA during her tenure managed to create household stars, many of which have been dominating WWE for the past 5 years or more. 

Unfortunately for Dixie, she got wrong advice and had the wrong people in high positions such as Eric Bischoff.


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

Klitschko said:


> You're comparing these guys years later to AEW's talent which barely started getting showcased a year ago. Do you think AJ Styles was considered anything other then a really good cruiserweight a year into his TNA career? We don't know what will happen to Darby and MJF and other promising talent yet because its so early in their careers.


Styles was NWA heavyweight world champion a year into his TNA run...



Jeripunk99 said:


> I dont care if he is the best promoter of all time. In the last 15 years the worst is Vince and its not close


So the guy who has overseen the rise of complete nobodies and small time indie stars into bonafide stars like Cena, Batista, Orton, Bryan, Punk, Shield, Charlotte, Becky, Sasha, Bayley and midcard talent like Mysterio, Edge and Jeff Hardy into first ballot hall of famers.

Saw his company generate record revenue and profits (only one year over past 15 have WWE not made a profit ie 2014 when they launched network). WWE have made more revenue and more profit since 2005 than they did between 1984 and 2004.

Was responsible for two genre defining events, creation of mitb and wwe Network both of which have been copied by other wrestling company and network by big media.

Has had the two most watched TV shows in wrestling during those 15 years including averaging higher annual viewership than NBA, mlb, Nascar, UFC, NHL.

Produced shows like Wrestlemania 24, MITB 2011, Summerslam 2013, Wrestlemania 30 that will be talked about decades from now.

That guy you think is the worst wrestling promoter of last 15 years...ok


----------



## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

Herd is worst because he changed the fabric of NWA World Championship Wrestling, pissing off their ultra loyal audience. Robocop, Chamber of Horrors, Black Scorpion, Oz, Yorke Foundation, Yellow Dog, Master Blasters, One Man Gang. Also made the company look cheap, yet still managed to lose millions. Let Mark Callaway slip through his fingers. Chased away Ric Flair, Road Warriors, Sid, Lex Luger. Saw El Gigante and Bill Kazmaier as top stars. Put Luger over in really confusing double turn.

Carter hired Vince "I can only write WWE style" Russo to write for them after Dusty and D Amore gave them an identity that led to a prime time slot and loyal fabase. Anyboby who watched in 2000 knew it was a really bad idea. Then she reboots the nightmarish team Bischoff and Russt much to the detriment of everything once again. Her watch saw Styles change character and Joe change character. Turned down some young talent, who are now top stars, in favour of Hall and Nash and Nasty Boys , Apparently lied to network bosses.


----------



## Dickhead1990 (Aug 31, 2016)

What a ridiculous thread! A new promoter who has spearheaded a successful show is the worst promoter? Teething problems aside, in the business world that would be deemed a major success story!

My award goes to Dixie Carter for a mainstream wrestling organisation. I also believe Konnan was the promoter at the show where the guy died and he didn't follow proper safety procedures. I would also argue Vince Mcmahon for a good part of the last < 20 years, however he has made a killing for his company.


----------



## Shock Street (Oct 27, 2020)

Dickhead1990 said:


> What a ridiculous thread! A new promoter who has spearheaded a successful show is the worst promoter? Teething problems aside, in the business world that would be deemed a major success story!


AEW is no doubt a financial success thus far, but it's also a land of missed opportunities


----------



## Undertaker23RKO (Jun 11, 2011)

Why are you assuming his overspending is fact based on a secondhand rumor? This is classic looking for things you agree with and ignoring everything else.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Undertaker23RKO said:


> Why are you assuming his overspending is fact based on a secondhand rumor? This is classic looking for things you agree with and ignoring everything else.


Because Cornette is a credible source and Khan already has a reputation for massively overspending?


----------



## Dickhead1990 (Aug 31, 2016)

Shock Street said:


> AEW is no doubt a financial success thus far, but it's also a land of missed opportunities


Of course, they could have capitalised on a lot. But to have continued pretty much unscathed following the first wave of Covid makes it a huge success. Sure, storylines were delayed and some wrestlers missing, but they really did try their absolute best and created easily the most engaging show for the time.

Let's hope they capitalise a bit better moving forwards though.


----------



## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

No, in all honesty business wise he's done well within one year and was smart to latch on to the all out/all in ppvs to create the promotion


----------



## HangmanPage (Aug 11, 2020)

I genuinely don't give a flying mother f*** what Jim Cuck Cornette has to say about anything. He whines just to whine and he talks about the wrestling industry as if its 1985 and everyone wants to watch a match full of leg drops and wrist holds.


----------



## omaroo (Sep 19, 2006)

Cornette does make some valid points but the guy is delusional mostly and crazy piece of shit.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO (Jun 11, 2011)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Because Cornette is a credible source and Khan already has a reputation for massively overspending?


An email to Cornette from a secondhand telling*
When? What other instances are there?


----------



## Jokerface17 (Feb 22, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Because Cornette is a credible source and Khan already has a reputation for massively overspending?


what has he massively overspent on?


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Undertaker23RKO said:


> An email to Cornette from a secondhand telling*
> When? What other instances are there?


Don't understand your question.



Jokerface17 said:


> what has he massively overspent on?


Well Jericho said he's being paid more than when he was in his prime so safe to say he's overpaid.

Moxley is allegedly making three million a year when he's worth maybe 1.

JR despite being super old is getting a million bucks a year for 2 hours work a week.

Then you've got the stupid elaborate gimmick matches that made no money and didn't do anything for anyone. The Matt Full Gear match, Tooth and Nail, Mimosa Mayhem, Stadium Stampede etc. All that stuff costs tens of or hundreds of thousands of dollars.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

The forum has spoken deal with it chip.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> The forum has spoken deal with it chip.


We didn't lose, there has clearly been some vote tampering here. Yesterday we were ahead 22-12 now down 69-36. There aren't even 107 posters on this board there is clearly shenanigans going on here.

Once the Abrams criteria is amended we will win the Two Sheds vote, we will WIN the Ozell Gray vote and we will win this vote.

Thank you


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Chip Chipperson said:


> We didn't lose, there has clearly been some vote tampering here. Yesterday we were ahead 22-12 now down 69-36. There aren't even 107 posters on this board there is clearly shenanigans going on here.
> 
> Once the Abrams criteria is amended we will win the Two Sheds vote, we will WIN the Ozell Gray vote and we will win this vote.
> 
> Thank you


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> We didn't lose, there has clearly been some vote tampering here. Yesterday we were ahead 22-12 now down 69-36. There aren't even 107 posters on this board there is clearly shenanigans going on here.
> 
> Once the Abrams criteria is amended we will win the Two Sheds vote, we will WIN the Ozell Gray vote and we will win this vote.
> 
> Thank you


Just like trump you gotta face reality,the numbers speak for themselves lol.


----------



## Jokerface17 (Feb 22, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Don't understand your question.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


"not worth that much"

your opinion chip, your opinion.


----------



## TeamFlareZakk (Jul 15, 2020)

No. Because Vince McMahon is the worst


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## 10gizzle (Oct 11, 2019)

@Chip Chipperson 

I think there's definitely an argument to call him the worst. No question.

At the same time, Has there ever been a promoter who's achieved more with a new promotion in such a short amount of time?

Sure - we can say he has his fathers backing and what not, but at the end of the day is the business not break even/be profitable?

Every time I hear about the old school promoters, or any of them for the matter, it always comes down to drawing money. I definitely agree with you on the fact that the top end of talent is costing an absurd amount vs what its doing but they would have always had to overpay for the top talent. The startups always have to overpay for talent. 

What I definitely am seeing, and this is purely subjective, is that AEW is unquestionably taking over the social media world of wrestling. 

Although they obviously don;'t have the reach or scope of WWE but in this modern day an age - a single meme can literally do tons in terms of visibility and I think what AEW is doing is just sliding into the niche of social media/reddit/gaming/modern internet culture.


----------



## Pentagon Senior (Nov 16, 2019)

_Intervention for Chip_ required

Poor boy is wasting his life away typing thousands of long posts about a TV show...that he doesn't even like 😭

All jokes aside, Chip, I genuinely hope for your sanity that you're a WWE shill and getting paid well for the hours, weeks and months you put in!

On topic, no he's not as illustrated by your own poll results.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Pentagon Senior said:


> _Intervention for Chip_ required
> 
> Poor boy is wasting his life away typing thousands of long posts about a TV show...that he doesn't even like 😭
> 
> ...


I like AEW, looking forward to watching their PPV when I'm off work. I have said this like 4 or 5 times.


----------



## Pentagon Senior (Nov 16, 2019)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I like AEW


Cheers mate - classic bantz!


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Jim Cornette must be in running for worst promoter - started an old school wrestling territory when it was apparent that type of promotion was not viable anymore.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Pippen94 said:


> Jim Cornette must be in running for worst promoter - started an old school wrestling territory when it was apparent that type of promotion was not viable anymore.


You mean the guy who drew multiple 5000+ seat houses with just local television and then was looked at well enough to be sent down to start an official WWE territory as promoter where he drew 5000+ multiple times again with just local television? That Jim Cornette?

Weren't you just banned for trolling?


----------



## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

Chip, at times you're mad and I'm sure you like a drink of alcohol after work, or something strinher lolz


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Carter84 said:


> Chip, at times you're mad and I'm sure you like a drink of alcohol after work, or something strinher lolz


Madder than a bag full of badgers mate. I'm upset we've lost your vote but I'm sure Team Chipperson can win the Bdon vote


----------



## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Madder than a bag full of badgers mate. I'm upset we've lost your vote but I'm sure Team Chipperson can win the Bdon vote


Think he has left the forum i just @ him and his name won't come up. Ah ffs
.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Carter84 said:


> Think he has left the forum i just @ him and his name won't come up. Ah ffs
> .


Bdon has been banned unfortunately. He will hopefully return soon.


----------



## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Bdon has been banned unfortunately. He will hopefully return soon.


For what? I've seen other members banned for saying nothing which offered a ban, it's not what you knowmon here it's who you know, unfortunately.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Carter84 said:


> For what? I've seen other members banned for saying nothing which offered a ban, it's not what you knowmon here it's who you know, unfortunately.


Not sure, I didn't catch the offensive post to be honest.

#freebdon


----------



## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Not sure, I didn't catch the offensive post to be honest.
> 
> #freebdon


#freebdon


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> You mean the guy who drew multiple 5000+ seat houses with just local television and then was looked at well enough to be sent down to start an official WWE territory as promoter where he drew 5000+ multiple times again with just local television? That Jim Cornette?
> 
> Weren't you just banned for trolling?


I was banned for baiting (?!). Saying Jim Cornette was dumb for starting company which was destined to fail - which it did - really shouldn't get me banned on any forum anywhere. Who knows here tho??
In 1991, off top of my head only uswa & pnw were still around & the later was soon to lose TV. Territories which had existed successfully for decades had fallen like flies. Cornette outlines in his podcast the issues he faced running at time but if looked around him he should have never started promotion - it was no longer feasible to run house loop reliant on local TV.
Person who does that & wastes investors money is dumb. Further, when asked about potential of all in show in 2018 said it wouldn't sell out without local TV - guy is so far stuck in past


----------



## Mercian (Jun 26, 2020)

Pippen94 said:


> Jim Cornette must be in running for worst promoter - started an old school wrestling territory when it was apparent that type of promotion was not viable anymore.


It was very viable! Like that old style or not he was getting great gates and running a great territory to an audience who enjoyed that kind of product, had he managed a TV deal the product would still be running today, many of his wrestlers went onto WCW or WWF

Cornette also ran OVW, Mr not relevant today had a major hand in the careers of Brock Lesnar, John Cena, Batista and many others still prospering

I would love someone like Jim as a consultant if I had a fed, "Tell me Jim does this work and why not?"


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Mercian said:


> It was very viable! Like that old style or not he was getting great gates and running a great territory to an audience who enjoyed that kind of product, had he managed a TV deal the product would still be running today, many of his wrestlers went onto WCW or WWF
> 
> Cornette also ran OVW, Mr not relevant today had a major hand in the careers of Brock Lesnar, John Cena, Batista and many others still prospering
> 
> I would love someone like Jim as a consultant if I had a fed, "Tell me Jim does this work and why not?"


Gates weren't great - company struggled most years & went out if business.


----------



## Pentagon Senior (Nov 16, 2019)

Pippen94 said:


> Jim Cornette must be in running for worst promoter - started an old school wrestling territory when it was apparent that type of promotion was not viable anymore.


Good point - so we have Dixie, Herbie and Jimbo ahead of TK?


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Mercian said:


> It was very viable! Like that old style or not he was getting great gates and running a great territory to an audience who enjoyed that kind of product, had he managed a TV deal the product would still be running today, many of his wrestlers went onto WCW or WWF
> 
> Cornette also ran OVW, Mr not relevant today had a major hand in the careers of Brock Lesnar, John Cena, Batista and many others still prospering
> 
> I would love someone like Jim as a consultant if I had a fed, "Tell me Jim does this work and why not?"


Cornette ran a program in 91-94 like how most independents should be ran today especially in the United States where local TV is apparently still a thing.

I think in large states/regions with many cities sort of close by you could do a territory style promotion today and still have it work although there'd need to be some differences.

Most likely would have to film TV once every 4-6 weeks to save money and capitalise on the names you have on board but after that you could edit in the local promos etc for the towns. Fill the weekend schedule with dates meaning the "territory" wouldn't be full time but could still run at least one show a week.

For example, in Texas if you could get the TV there you could run your big TV taping once a month from Houston and then for the month make one major stop a week in cities like San Antonio, Dallas, Austin and then run a few of the smaller towns on the same weekend.

The whole one show a month deal is a model I feel doesn't work. Cornette was ahead of his time with what independent wrestling should be.


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Cornette ran a program in 91-94 like how most independents should be ran today especially in the United States where local TV is apparently still a thing.
> 
> I think in large states/regions with many cities sort of close by you could do a territory style promotion today and still have it work although there'd need to be some differences.
> 
> ...


Didn't work in 1991 - won't work today. Smackdoen is on FTA not to mention raw, aew nationally on cable. That's what killed territories - looked bush league to national stuff.
Cornette just implemented old school territory approach. If you know wrestling you would know this - he's behind times always


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Pippen94 said:


> Didn't work in 1991 - won't work today. Smackdoen is on FTA not to mention raw, aew nationally on cable. That's what killed territories - looked bush league to national stuff.
> Cornette just implemented old school territory approach. If you know wrestling you would know this - he's behind times always


I still think there is a market for a local wrestling show mixed in with former TV stars visiting your town and wrestling at the local high school or community hall. Actually I KNOW there is a market for this because it's what a whole heap of indies have success with around the world. I remember finding out about local wrestling because they visited my town with a former WCW TV Wrestler and I thought that was the coolest thing ever that this former TV guy was wrestling in my town.

Local wrestling borrowing from the territory days can still work. You won't agree with me because it'd put Cornette in a positive light but it's true. Also, many of the "territories" in the 90's were quite successful at least regionally. Ozark Mountain Wrestling ran a 5 day a week territory running small towns, getting local sponsors and really utilising the local TV to the best of it's potential. Biggest stars were Smoky Mountain castoffs such as Ricky Morton and Tracy Smothers.


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I still think there is a market for a local wrestling show mixed in with former TV stars visiting your town and wrestling at the local high school or community hall. Actually I KNOW there is a market for this because it's what a whole heap of indies have success with around the world. I remember finding out about local wrestling because they visited my town with a former WCW TV Wrestler and I thought that was the coolest thing ever that this former TV guy was wrestling in my town.
> 
> Local wrestling borrowing from the territory days can still work. You won't agree with me because it'd put Cornette in a positive light but it's true. Also, many of the "territories" in the 90's were quite successful at least regionally. Ozark Mountain Wrestling ran a 5 day a week territory running small towns, getting local sponsors and really utilising the local TV to the best of it's potential. Biggest stars were Smoky Mountain castoffs such as Ricky Morton and Tracy Smothers.


There isn't & it won't ever comeback. Cornette was only a few years removed from peak of territories & things had changed as such that it wasn't viable anymore. Fact that national companies exist is a big part of that & any regional promotion today or in the future would be small time. No coincidence indies emerged when territories died.

Keep dreaming tho - between you & wood this is becoming fantasy forum


----------



## Jokerface17 (Feb 22, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Cornette ran a program in 91-94 like how most independents should be ran today especially in the United States where local TV is apparently still a thing.
> 
> I think in large states/regions with many cities sort of close by you could do a territory style promotion today and still have it work although there'd need to be some differences.
> 
> ...


Territory promotions don’t work in the states anymore. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mercian (Jun 26, 2020)

Definitely a place for local Wrestling and playing to the audience you know -Memphis? Philadelphia? 

ECW was a territory of it's time, that style probably wouldnt have gone down the same in the rasslin areas, when it folded you ended up with CZW, XPW, 3PW and all the similar because it played to what people wanted. SMW did exactly the same as played to what the people wanted, I bet my ass that Bill Dundee and Jimmy Golden are still doing the rounds there somewhere!

Sadly in a way Pippen your quite right, go back 30 years or less and as well as your WWF/WCW you have Global on ESPN, IWCCW, USWA, Eastern championship wrestling and others, sadly as weve seen TV stations dont want to be associated with wrestling any more


----------



## Undertaker23RKO (Jun 11, 2011)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Don't understand your question.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Where is the evidence that he overspends? You said there is a lot. G


Chip Chipperson said:


> Don't understand your question.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You said he has a reputation for overspending. What evidence is there to back that up?


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

Undertaker23RKO said:


> Where is the evidence that he overspends? You said there is a lot. G
> 
> 
> You said he has a reputation for overspending. What evidence is there to back that up?


Thats just the first show... 411MANIA | Young Bucks Announce Title Match For AEW Double or Nothing, Reveal They’ve Spent $100K Over Budget

If you are offering bigger deals to Jericho, Elite, Mox than WWE are willing to then you are vastly overspending.


----------



## Pentagon Senior (Nov 16, 2019)

validreasoning said:


> Thats just the first show... 411MANIA | Young Bucks Announce Title Match For AEW Double or Nothing, Reveal They’ve Spent $100K Over Budget
> 
> If you are offering bigger deals to Jericho, Elite, Mox than WWE are willing to then you are vastly overspending.


Those people may not have joined otherwise - if you're looking to make a splash as a new startup isn't it logical to outlay what it takes to get a few major names, then build to a more sustainable wage structure over time? The other option would have been to start without major names and probably not have the success they've had year one... 

'overspent' is a subjective term and what a wrestler is worth to one company is not necessarily what they are worth to another - there's a difference between worth and value


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

validreasoning said:


> Thats just the first show... 411MANIA | Young Bucks Announce Title Match For AEW Double or Nothing, Reveal They’ve Spent $100K Over Budget
> 
> If you are offering bigger deals to Jericho, Elite, Mox than WWE are willing to then you are vastly overspending.


But as of April this year, AEW was reported to be 'slightly profitable'. BTW, even if they had overspent to start, that would not surprise me at all - speculating to accumulate is common practice in a start-up. You have to spend money to make money for something on this scale.

In a separate interview, Cody said they have some very fiscally conservative guys behind the scenes, and that is why they set limits on how much they'd offer Punk for example. If it was just a billionaire spending whatever, AEW could go much further than they already have (they probably would have given Punk what he wanted, Orton too), but they clearly want to be sustainable and long-lasting, and Cody said they want to avoid the financial mistakes of WCW and JCP.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

validreasoning said:


> Thats just the first show... 411MANIA | Young Bucks Announce Title Match For AEW Double or Nothing, Reveal They’ve Spent $100K Over Budget
> 
> If you are offering bigger deals to Jericho, Elite, Mox than WWE are willing to then you are vastly overspending.


Weren’t you one of the guys saying that AEW was stupid for not paying Punk whatever he wanted?


----------



## Pentagon Senior (Nov 16, 2019)

3venflow said:


> But as of April this year, AEW was reported to be 'slightly profitable'. BTW, even if they had overspent to start, that would not surprise me at all - speculating to accumulate is common practice in a start-up. You have to spend money to make money for something on this scale.
> 
> In a separate interview, Cody said they have some very fiscally conservative guys behind the scenes, and that is why they set limits on how much they'd offer Punk for example. If it was just a billionaire spending whatever, AEW could go much further than they already have (they probably would have given Punk what he wanted, Orton too), but they clearly want to be sustainable and long-lasting, and Cody said they want to avoid the financial mistakes of WCW and JCP.


That's an interesting point re: Punk. I swear some of the folk talking about AEW 'overspending' have also used the inability to sign Punk as another stick to beat the company with shock horror). It has to be a balance between 'speculate to accumulate' and being financially responsibly. And let's be fair, who on this forum actually has genuine insight into where AEW are in that range of possibilities?


----------



## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

Undertaker23RKO said:


> Where is the evidence that he overspends? You said there is a lot. G
> 
> 
> You said he has a reputation for overspending. What evidence is there to back that up?


It's well known he overspent on guys to get them to jump to AEW.

They're paying Pac $2 million a year

The Young Bucks $2 million a year, Brandi Rhodes $2 million a year

Jim Ross $1 million a year

Cody Rhodes $3 million a year

Lunch Bros $2 million a year

Jon Moxley $6 million a year

Chris Jericho $3 million a year

Goldust $2 million a year

Nyla Rose 2$ million a year

Shawn Spears $2 million a year

Kenny Omega$3 million a year












AEW Wrestlers Salary | AEW Wrestling Salary | How much does All Elite Wrestling pay their Wrestlers? – Sport News Wale


Here's How Much the World's Top AEW Wrestlers Earn per Year. (aew wrestlers salary) Dean Ambrose, Chris Jericho, Kenny omega, hangman Adam page and more




sportnewswale.com















WWE Rumors: Jim Ross To Join AEW On Multi-Year Deal


WWE Hall of Famer Jim Ross announced that he will be leaving the company after 26 years when his contract ends on March 29.




www.ibtimes.com








3venflow said:


> But as of April this year, AEW was reported to be 'slightly profitable'. BTW, even if they had overspent to start, that would not surprise me at all - speculating to accumulate is common practice in a start-up. You have to spend money to make money for something on this scale.
> 
> In a separate interview, Cody said they have some very fiscally conservative guys behind the scenes, and that is why they set limits on how much they'd offer Punk for example. If it was just a billionaire spending whatever, AEW could go much further than they already have (they probably would have given Punk what he wanted, Orton too), but they clearly want to be sustainable and long-lasting, and Cody said they want to avoid the financial mistakes of WCW and JCP.


See above with the salaries they're paying these guys there's no way they made a profit in April. It cost $26 million for production a year and then you add on the millions they're paying these guys thats over $50 million a year easily in salaries and production cost. Look at the above salaries thats being paid to these guys and then look at Meltzer's inaccurate claims of a "a small profit" in April. The profit in April doesn't add up when you consider all these things.


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

Ozell Gray said:


> It's well known he overspent on guys to get them to jump to AEW.
> 
> They're paying Pac $2 million a year
> 
> ...


Becky Lynch ($3.1m per year) makes more than every wrestler in AEW except Moxley then. Some of these guys are overpaid (especially Rose and Spears), but many of them seem to have joined for a competitive salary considering AEW's ambitions and place on national TV. Jericho earns the same as part-time Goldberg if these numbers are correct. WWE paid Brock $10m a year to work part-time. Also, several of the above (Cody, Dustin, Omega, Bucks) do other roles behind the scenes, negating the need for an extra employee I imagine.

If you're right and their overheads are $50m, then they have a $6.25m short fall since their TNT deal is worth $43.75m per year. PPVs, ticket sales, merchandise you'd expect would cover much of that.


----------



## stew mack (Apr 24, 2013)

Carter84 said:


> #freebdon



lol what happened to him?


----------



## DJ Punk (Sep 1, 2016)

Ozell Gray said:


> It's well known he overspent on guys to get them to jump to AEW.
> 
> They're paying Pac $2 million a year
> 
> ...


Shawn Spears is getting paid 2mil? What the absolute fuck...


----------



## Undertaker23RKO (Jun 11, 2011)

validreasoning said:


> Thats just the first show... 411MANIA | Young Bucks Announce Title Match For AEW Double or Nothing, Reveal They’ve Spent $100K Over Budget
> 
> If you are offering bigger deals to Jericho, Elite, Mox than WWE are willing to then you are vastly overspending.


That's fair. It's also fair to point out that was there first event.


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

3venflow said:


> But as of April this year, AEW was reported to be 'slightly profitable'. BTW, even if they had overspent to start, that would not surprise me at all - speculating to accumulate is common practice in a start-up. You have to spend money to make money for something on this scale.


This is the Meltzer quote

"AEW did break even in April, actually making a very small profit. With television not being taped every week, it has reduced costs, although the reduction of costs is not enough to offset the loss of the live gates from what would have been five Wednesday night shows, but the reduction does partially offset that. The company turned a very small profit between the money from TNT for television, online merchandise money and costs being down by doing all the taping over two days in Decatur, GA"

So basically they taped tv for month over two days in an empty venue thus massively cutting costs hence the small profit. That would make sense.



> In a separate interview, Cody said they have some very fiscally conservative guys behind the scenes, and that is why they set limits on how much they'd offer Punk for example. If it was just a billionaire spending whatever, AEW could go much further than they already have (they probably would have given Punk what he wanted, Orton too), but they clearly want to be sustainable and long-lasting, and Cody said they want to avoid the financial mistakes of WCW and JCP.


Republicans in the US think they are fiscally conservative but I digress..

AEW are spending lots of money. Pro wrestling at the production level they are offering with the roster size they have costs alot of money.

I would love to see AEW accounts and TNAs but production alone for each Dynamite is between $25-50 million annually based on WWEs numbers and what Dixie said it cost to run one episode on the road back in 2013. AEWs production is closer to WWEs imo than TNA.


prosperwithdeen said:


> Weren’t you one of the guys saying that AEW was stupid for not paying Punk whatever he wanted?


Absolutely not.

I am of the belief the only place Punk should have returned is WWE main roster as that's where he has biggest exposure and can work Wrestlemania, rumble, Summerslam which no one else can offer.

Couple that with fact he already had inbuilt storyline immediately with HHH and Vince.

Covid era with no crowds I don't think wwe should bring him back.


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

validreasoning said:


> I would love to see AEW accounts and TNAs but production alone for each Dynamite is between $25-50 million annually based on WWEs numbers and what Dixie said it cost to run one episode on the road back in 2013. AEWs production is closer to WWEs imo than TNA.


Production 'allowance' is $500,000 per week or $26m per year (link below). But that is/was assuming they were filming Dynamite at different locations and travelling a lot since the report was pre-Covid. With everything basically static and in place at Daily's Place, I imagine it's a lot less during the pandemic except for rare set changes (ie. Full Gear). They basically just have to replenish the pyro for most shows these days.









TNT Renews AEW Dynamite Through 2023, Agrees To Add 2nd Show


All Elite Wrestling, the current top startup pro wrestling promotion, announced some very good news for themselves on Wednesday.




www.forbes.com







> The press release didn’t contain any further details about the deal, but more came out as the day went on. Wrestling Observer Newsletter editor Dave Meltzer reported that the contract has TNT paying $43.75 million/year for four years, with an option for TNT to extend the contract for 2024 “at a significantly increased price.” John McMullen had similar information from a TV-side source, reporting that, subtracting the $500,000/week production allowance, the remainder increases from about $15 million/year to $20 million/year.


----------



## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

3venflow said:


> Becky Lynch ($3.1m per year) makes more than every wrestler in AEW except Moxley then. Some of these guys are overpaid (especially Rose and Spears), but many of them seem to have joined for a competitive salary considering AEW's ambitions and place on national TV. Jericho earns the same as part-time Goldberg if these numbers are correct. WWE paid Brock $10m a year to work part-time. Also, several of the above (Cody, Dustin, Omega, Bucks) do other roles behind the scenes, negating the need for an extra employee I imagine.
> 
> If you're right and their overheads are $50m, then they have a $6.25m short fall since their TNT deal is worth $43.75m per year. PPVs, ticket sales, merchandise you'd expect would cover much of that.


It’s fine to have “competitive salaries” but there’s no reason to spend $2 million a year on Nyla Rose, Goldust, and Shawn Spears and $1 million a year on Jim Ross. I’m sure they could’ve gotten JR for half that price and three other guys for much less as well. Going by the quarterly hours numbers Jericho isn’t drawing viewers so he shouldn’t even be getting Goldberg money. When Goldberg appeared on SmackDown it saw a big boost of 2.6 million viewers. Jericho is drawing 600k viewers for his quarterly segments. $2 million a year is too much money for The Bucks and they should be on $750k a year salary imo. 

I understand they have to pay more if they want to compete with WWE but these are astronomical numbers wouldn’t you agree? Lucia Bros should be on $250k a year salaries not $2 million if we’re being honest here. Since Mickey is their biggest draw (and he seems like their only draw based off of everything I’ve seen) his salary is justified so I don’t really have a problem with him getting $6 million. 



TNT pays them $45 million a year so if you take into account production costs and salaries that$50 million a year which is a $5 million loss. Half of the revenue of the PPVs goes to the PPV providers. I don’t know how much they make on merchandise but I can certainly say that merch sales are down during this time. They certainly made money off of ticket sales and merch last year but merch sales are down, little ticket sales to 10% of capacity, and $500,000 production cost per show that’s a ton of money loss. With these numbers it’s unthinkable they could turn a profit, even Eric Bischoff said before that they’re paying guys more than WCW did and that they spent $50 million. Based off of what I’ve read it costs $500k a show for production so that’s $26 million a year right there and then the salaries adding another $30+ million a year that’s over $50 million that they’re spending with no return on investment. 







__





Eric Bischoff Fires Back At Tony Khan, Claims He's Spent $30-50 Million "To Prove AEW Can Compete With NXT" | EWrestling


Covering WWE, IMPACT, NJPW, ROH wrestling news, rumors, results and spoilers including live play by play of TV and PPVs




ewrestling.com










DJ Punk said:


> Shawn Spears is getting paid 2mil? What the absolute fuck...


Yeah he’s getting $2 million a year.


----------



## Shock Street (Oct 27, 2020)

DJ Punk said:


> Shawn Spears is getting paid 2mil? What the absolute fuck...


I even like Shawn Spears and I think this is stupid


----------



## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

3venflow said:


> Production 'allowance' is $500,000 per week or $26m per year (link below). But that is/was assuming they were filming Dynamite at different locations and travelling a lot since the report was pre-Covid. With everything basically static and in place at Daily's Place, I imagine it's a lot less during the pandemic except for rare set changes (ie. Full Gear). They basically just have to replenish the pyro for most shows these days.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah but you’re forgetting that pyro is expensive too so it’s actually more than $500k if you’re adding the pyro as a factor so that’s easily over 30 or $40 million if we’re factoring in pyro. It’s $500k if we’re leaving pyro out but it’s more if we’re including it.


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

Carter84 said:


> #freebdon


Wow, that’s a new low.

Dude, he got in trouble for flaming fans of Cody Rhodes, and (probably) for telling him to go break his leg.

Anyway, the majority have rightfully spoken (with quite a HUGE gap too). Tony Khan really isn’t the “worst” wrestling promoter of all time. Hey, good for him, and kudos to the 67% of the folks on here for recognizing the truth


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

DammitChrist said:


> Wow, that’s a new low.
> 
> Dude, he got in trouble for flaming fans of Cody Rhodes, and (probably) for telling him to go break his leg.
> 
> Anyway, the majority have rightfully spoken (with quite a HUGE gap too). Tony Khan really isn’t the “worst” wrestling promoter of all time. Hey, good for him, and kudos to the 67% of the folks on here for recognizing the truth


I don't think I'd be celebrating 33% of the board saying he's the worst and multiple others saying only Abrams is worse


----------



## 10gizzle (Oct 11, 2019)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Perhaps naively I've always given Tony the benefit of the doubt. No, he isn't a wrestling guy and doesn't know what he's doing there but I've always assumed that he's a half decent business man. I no longer give him that benefit of the doubt.
> 
> With his awful business decisions, the bad eye for talent, the ridiculous booking, the overspending, the fact he's easily influenced etc etc etc can we rightfully say that Tony Khan is the worst mainstream promoter ever?
> 
> ...


Do you have some inside information into AEW's books?

How do we know they're overspending? Are they losing money? What are we using as a baseline? 

The fact that AEW actually pays for their employees travel and accommodations rather than fucking their employees over by forcing them to cover their own costs?

Do we know it's their money and not some minimal interest loan floated to a successful billionaire?

Seems like they're going through a growth period right now which, as I'm sure a man of good business decisions such as yourself knows, involves spending money.


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

Khan is adding, not downsizing, to his roster, which suggests finances are healthy.

And even if they weren't, the Khans are rich enough to soak up losses indefinitely. Fulham, their Premier League side, reported a loss of £20.2m (about $26.6m) for the year ended June 2019. Losses are quite common in soccer, but most EPL clubs can absorb it due to rich owners.

Even if AEW lost $2m a year, that's absolutely nothing to a family worth $8bn. As it stands, they seem to be probably at a small loss or small profit due to their national TV deal and other avenues of income.


----------



## Necrolust (Mar 4, 2015)

validreasoning said:


> Thats just the first show... 411MANIA | Young Bucks Announce Title Match For AEW Double or Nothing, Reveal They’ve Spent $100K Over Budget
> 
> If you are offering bigger deals to Jericho, Elite, Mox than WWE are willing to then you are vastly overspending.


So you, as an upstart company, in desperate need of some proven talent, would try and undercut wrestlers to jump ship to your new company? No, he needed some names and you need to spend money in order to make money.


----------



## 10gizzle (Oct 11, 2019)

3venflow said:


> Khan is adding, not downsizing, to his roster, which suggests finances are healthy.
> 
> And even if they weren't, the Khans are rich enough to soak up losses indefinitely. Fulham, their Premier League side, reported a loss of £20.2m (about $26.6m) for the year ended June 2019. Losses are quite common in soccer, but most EPL clubs can absorb it due to rich owners.
> 
> Even if AEW lost $2m a year, that's absolutely nothing to a family worth $8bn. As it stands, they seem to be probably at a small loss or small profit due to their national TV deal and other avenues of income.


The Jaguars have the 2nd lowest payroll in the league, are one of the worst teams in the league yet their revenue has nearly doubled over the last 8 years to nearly half a billion dollars.

They have a dead cap of 45 million dollars this year. For anybody who doesn't know, that's money being paid to players who are no longer one the team/are cut.

Anybody thinking that TK is out of his depths from a financial standpoint has no idea the type of exponentially larger and infinitely more complex managing a team under the NFL cap is.

I don't wanna simply call this "chump change" or anything like that because the Khans have show to be very shrewd businessman and the principles can be scaled up and down but I'm fairly certain he has a team of financial experts at his families disposal to help manage their 8 billion dollar empire. Pretty sure he's got a better grasp on how to spend the companies money than anybody here.


----------



## Dark Emperor (Jul 31, 2007)

Ozell Gray said:


> It's well known he overspent on guys to get them to jump to AEW.
> 
> They're paying Pac $2 million a year
> 
> ...


C'mon, Tony may be a money mark but there is no way he's paying Nyla Rose $2m a year or Mox $6m a year. It's pretty clear that Jericho is highest paid in AEW, Cody even mentioned Jericho tier when describing pay scale.

Also Mox mentioned he didn't care about money, so that's why he didnt even bother negotiating before leaving WWE. You really think Tony just gave him $6m Brock Lesnar money off the bat when there was no counter offer from WWE on table. He was on way less before he left.

The whole list is fake. Just reading it, it has spelling mistakes and talks about Omega being a major get by leaving WWE for AEW. 

None of these sites know for sure what AEW or WWE wrestlers make and its all clickbait. At least when Forbes do a list, its realistic lol.


----------



## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

Dark Emperor said:


> C'mon, Tony may be a money mark but there is no way he's paying Nyla Rose $2m a year or Mox $6m a year. It's pretty clear that Jericho is highest paid in AEW, Cody even mentioned Jericho tier when describing pay scale.
> 
> Also Mox mentioned he didn't care about money, so that's why he didnt even bother negotiating before leaving WWE. You really think Tony just gave him $6m Brock Lesnar money off the bat when there was no counter offer from WWE on table. He was on way less before he left.
> 
> ...


"Jericho money" just means more money than every midcarder gets. _Brock Lesnar makes $10 million a year and Moxley making $6 million a year isn't out of the question especially since JR confirmed he himself is making $1 million a year. It's known Tony Khan overspent on guys when AEW first got started and every other website I saw on Nyla Rose's salary all say that Nyla is making $2 million a year and the $3 million for Cody Rhodes, 2$ million for Brandi Rhodes, The Young Bucks, and the $3 million for Kenny Omega have all been confirmed as well. _


Moxley didn't care what WWE were offering because he was mad about creative there, hence why he was leaving and he said so himself. Well a few of the AEW salaries have been confirmed either by the people themselves like JR when he admitted it on his podcast or by other websites as well like Nyla Rose's salary. Brock Lesnar, John Cena, Becky Lynch, and Roman Reigns'salaries have all been revealed so websites do know what WWE wrestlers are making and know what some in AEW are making even if they don't know what everyone makes they do know what the high tier makes.


----------



## qntntgood (Mar 12, 2010)

Aew could definitely use a change direction,this is not working and it start at the top with khan and the people he has as the evps.


----------



## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

DammitChrist said:


> Wow, that’s a new low.
> 
> Dude, he got in trouble for flaming fans of Cody Rhodes, and (probably) for telling him to go break his leg.
> 
> Anyway, the majority have rightfully spoken (with quite a HUGE gap too). Tony Khan really isn’t the “worst” wrestling promoter of all time. Hey, good for him, and kudos to the 67% of the folks on here for recognizing the truth


Did I see that ? No! Don't you start putting me in that category either, did i know? Bdon if you said that , I ain't down with that , EVER , what u on about new low? DC belive what you want , you have known me for a while on here, I'm ain't into taking sides on here, I do my own thing.

I Said to chip he is mad for saying it, TK give me a new liking for wrestling I ain't had since AE , not that aew is like AE as it ain't, totally different. I am one of the biggest marks on here for aew, ain't missed one show, ever!

What you and bdon , chip have going on ain't feck all to do with me so keep me out of it, I get on with everyone on here , take sides not a chance!


----------



## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

stew mack said:


> lol what happened to him?


Fuck knows , chip said he was banned.


----------



## Mercian (Jun 26, 2020)

You know Im not a betting man but Im sure if I went over to say the "Family Guy" forum
There would be those who love everything, those who think its on its last legs, those who dont care after season (Insert), those who hate all the Meg hate, those who want more Quagmire and so on
Im glad that despite that differing views on this forum with every single topic(!) That people care enough to post or reply 

One promoter who really deserves a mention is Jerry Jarrett, I discovered the USWA in the early nineties not knowing Jarrett's rich promoting history, at the time Wrestling was in the dumps for various reasons.
Jarrett ran a solid promotion where he could headline Lawler v Kamala or Eddie Gilbert or Koko B Ware or tag teams against the Moondogs and get 1k-2k coming to live events
Yeah he made mistakes but he kept it profitable and like all his ventures got out at the right time, we owe him at least for giving so many a place to work and hone their craft; inc Steve Austin, Undertaker, Sid Vicious, Mick Foley and The Rock
Shame that time isnt on his side as would make a great Khan consultant

I think there tends to be the thought that the old timers are stuck in the past and the days of territories rather than accepting they know about profit/loss, booking, audience reaction and many things that will be lost unless they are passed on
Do I fear for the future, sure, havent seen a match open with a Moonsault yet but Im sure its not far off


----------



## Dark Emperor (Jul 31, 2007)

Ozell Gray said:


> "Jericho money" just means more money than every midcarder gets. _Brock Lesnar makes $10 million a year and Moxley making $6 million a year isn't out of the question especially since JR confirmed he himself is making $1 million a year. It's known Tony Khan overspent on guys when AEW first got started and every other website I saw on Nyla Rose's salary all say that Nyla is making $2 million a year and the $3 million for Cody Rhodes, 2$ million for Brandi Rhodes, The Young Bucks, and the $3 million for Kenny Omega have all been confirmed as well. _
> 
> 
> Moxley didn't care what WWE were offering because he was mad about creative there, hence why he was leaving and he said so himself. Well a few of the AEW salaries have been confirmed either by the people themselves like JR when he admitted it on his podcast or by other websites as well like Nyla Rose's salary. Brock Lesnar, John Cena, Becky Lynch, and Roman Reigns'salaries have all been revealed so websites do know what WWE wrestlers are making and know what some in AEW are making even if they don't know what everyone makes they do know what the high tier makes.


I’m sorry, I can’t agree. Those number are complete bullshit. Who the hell ever heard of Nyla Rose before AEW signed her. Just use logic, it’s impossible for her to command a salary of $2m which is same as EVPs. Someone like her would have been lucky for AEW to pick her up on their lowest base salary. Are you seriously believing Tony paid her that just cuz she’s transgender? Becus that’s the only reason that makes sense.

On Mox pay, no way he is on $6m whilst the biggest full timer in WWE is on $3m or so. Are you nuts? If those numbers were true the likes of Orton, Rey, Jeff Hardy and other top talent would have left for AEW. Especially with the so called creative freedom plus only working 1day a week.

But as of now, Mox is still the only talent that WWE cared about that left. And he admitted he was leaving whether AEW started or not.


----------



## midgetlover69 (Nov 27, 2016)

2 mil for brandi but they cant afford cm punk LOL


----------



## somerandomfan (Dec 13, 2013)

I'm not going to shit on the price Cody, Omega, Young Bucks or Brandi are making since they're also executives as well as on screen characters, AEW may be overspending on some people but that small group are probably better compared to Triple H, Steph or Shane.

But are Nyla or Shawn Spears worth that much? Fuck no...


----------



## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

Dark Emperor said:


> I’m sorry, I can’t agree. Those number are complete bullshit. Who the hell ever heard of Nyla Rose before AEW signed her. Just use logic, it’s impossible for her to command a salary of $2m which is same as EVPs. Someone like her would have been lucky for AEW to pick her up on their lowest base salary. Are you seriously believing Tony paid her that just cuz she’s transgender? Becus that’s the only reason that makes sense.
> 
> On Mox pay, no way he is on $6m whilst the biggest full timer in WWE is on $3m or so. Are you nuts? If those numbers were true the likes of Orton, Rey, Jeff Hardy and other top talent would have left for AEW. Especially with the so called creative freedom plus only working 1day a week.
> 
> But as of now, Mox is still the only talent that WWE cared about that left. And he admitted he was leaving whether AEW started or not.


Other sites have even said that Nyla Rose is making $2 million a year so that salary number is true obviously if you have others backing it up. No one said anything about gender so I don't know why you're projecting because I'm talking about the salary not whatever you're talking about. 

Moxley isn't on $6 million a year just because someone in WWE is making $3 million a year? Ok so explain this to me

"It is rumoured that his salary as a wrestler of AEW could be around $6 million."







Dean Ambrose (Jon Moxley) Net Worth 2020 | How much is Dean Ambrose worth | Sportskeeda WWE


Jonathan David Good, currently signed to AEW under the ring name Jon Moxley, is an American professional wrestler and actor who received worldwide fame and acclamation during his tenure with WWE, where he wrestled as Dean Ambrose from 2011 to 2019. Dean Ambrose's net worth stands at an estimated...




www.sportskeeda.com




.


It's basic knowledge that you can look up and see that most of the guys there are overpaid with Moxley getting a c!ear $6 million a year and Nyla Rose getting$2 million a year as well. Randy Orton never wanted to go to AEW so no he wouldn't have gone to AEW, Jeff Hardy's contract hasn't expired yet, and Rey Mysterio got offered tons of money by WWE with AEW matching the offer but he chose WWE because of his son. You also have other sources that all say the samething which is that AEW are spending more money on these guys than they're worth. Everyone isn't lying when they talk about AEW's salaries or their salary structure.

Thanks for proving my point. Moxley was leaving whether AEW was a thing or not because he was frustrated by WWE's creative team.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Yeah those salaries are fake as shit. Moxley is not making $6 million and Nyla is not making $2 million.


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## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

Those net worth sites are notoriously unreliable. 3 different sources will often give wide ranging figures, really unprofessional grammar and lack citations. Even Forbes is called out for getting things very wrong.

The problem with taking what wrestlers claim as gospel is that it's a carny business at heart. Everybody is working the audience to some extent. That's not exclusive to onscreen - it's shoot interviews, media interviews etc.

JR, Chris Jericho and Rhodes Brothers were worth bidding a bit higher for so that TNT saw names they recognized. Ditto Ambrose, Neville, Swagger. The rest - not so much. But Omega, Bucks, Lucha Bros, LAX did bring the necessary gravitas.

What makes me doubt the numbers thrown around ( particularly the indie level) is that Spears and Rose were working indie shows until late last year. If they're taking 2 million per year, why would they want to? It just devalues their current per show worth. Why would Khan even allow them to risk injury? Same with Darby, Private Party, Luchasaurus, Stunt etc. They were all working the low leagues pre pandemic. Something doesn't quite add up.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

DammitChrist said:


> The vote poll here says it all really. That's honestly the only big explanation you really need.


I haven't read the whole thread, but no, it's not the only explanation I need, haha. It's one thing to say "Of course he's not the worst," but everyone seems to struggle naming anyone worse other than Abrams and Herd.


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## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

If we talking post 1990 as cut off only Vince can rank ahead. Eric Bischoff & Paul Heyman had get success but even bigger failure. Very few mainstream promoters during timeframe & Khan ranks ahead of all but 1


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## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

Pippen94 said:


> If we talking post 1990 as cut off only Vince can rank ahead. Eric Bischoff & Paul Heyman had get success but even bigger failure. Very few mainstream promoters during timeframe & Khan ranks ahead of all but 1


Has AEW outdrawn WWE for 2 straight years. Generated hundreds of millions in revenue and 10s of millions in profit. Had ppvs doing 500 million domestic ppv buys and average attendance of 10,0000 paid fans..if not why do you think Khan is better than bischoff

Ecw despite being on a shoestring budget is one of the most influential companies in us history. Without ECW it's arguable if Monday night war is anywhere near as successful as 
both WCW and Vince borrowed massively from it. When final book is written on this business ecw gets a full chapter.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Tony Khan has a bought position. His dad floated this thing with enough capital to play. Bischoff is someone I don't rate as highly as others, because his shock and awe tactics didn't require much "skill" and it was a monkey paw wish that came back on them when Hogan decided he wanted to hang around post-98. But I don't know how you can rank Bischoff below Khan. 1996-1998 WCW surely count for something. TK has _never_ experienced those highs. 

Names like Heyman and Carter also did a lot more with a lot less. Yes, TNA is very often maligned and rightfully so, and yeah -- Viacom threw them a few bones -- but they were nowhere near as supported as AEW has been with Khan money. Surviving when you have less to work with is more impressive. All of Tony's "successes" have come about because Daddy said sell. The TNT deal was announced on the basis of this -- they hadn't even done a single PPV before the ink was dry. Potential was the early selling point. Potential and capital.


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## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

validreasoning said:


> Has AEW outdrawn WWE for 2 straight years. Generated hundreds of millions in revenue and 10s of millions in profit. Had ppvs doing 500 million domestic ppv buys and average attendance of 10,0000 paid fans..if not why do you think Khan is better than bischoff
> 
> Ecw despite being on a shoestring budget is one of the most influential companies in us history. Without ECW it's arguable if Monday night war is anywhere near as successful as
> both WCW and Vince borrowed massively from it. When final book is written on this business ecw gets a full chapter.


Yeah but Eric saw wcw fail & eventually be sold for next to nothing to main competitor. ECW also failed & was bought for price of Paul getting job with workers still owed money


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## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

The fact Heyman was as successful running a promotion out of his kitchen says it all and ultimately it was WWF and WCWs war that brought them down.

WCW was still far more successful when bischoff stepped aside in late 99 than aew is now. And again that was fight to the death which there isn't now. By the end of Monday night war two companies were dead and the winner went into a massive downward spiral they couldn't correct until Cena and Batista were made top guys some four years later.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Pippen94 said:


> If we talking post 1990 as cut off only Vince can rank ahead. Eric Bischoff & Paul Heyman had get success but even bigger failure. Very few mainstream promoters during timeframe & Khan ranks ahead of all but 1


That's it folks, pack it up, I've seen it all now, Tony Khan is better than Eric Bischoff and PAUL HEYMAN according to this AEW loyalist.

Pippen, you brag how much you know about the history of wrestling so surely you'd know the following:

Bischoff - Took a failing and unprofitable promotion and made it the number 1 promotion in the world. Many people don't like him or think he's a one hit wonder which I feel is incorrect but whatever. To argue that this dude running his TV show in front of 700,000 people is even comparable to Eric Bischoff who had a 6.0 rating (6.6-6.8 million people?) watching is ludicrous, biased and point blank insulting.

Do you think in 25 years people will still be wearing Inner Circle shirts like they do with the nWo shirts today?

Heyman - Similar to Eric but different scale he took a small regional promotion that had some goodwill with the locals and turned it into a top 5 promotion in the world that changed the industry. Even today promotions around the world and even major promotions book the ECW guys and the crowd chants ECW ECW ECW at it. AEW will NEVER have that impact on anything.

Hell, ECW was so influential that your mate Tony said he was changing the face of wrestling (Or some other dumb shit) by introducing a random ECW title from 1998 to his company. Even Tony would say Heyman is better than him I'm sure.

Without question, your post above is the stupidest post I think I've ever read in my life. Complete lack of knowledge and I will never even be attempting to take you seriously again.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Tony has a LONG way to go before he even approaches being as good a promoter as Bischoff or Heyman. Honestly, it is still too early to say a lot about him as he just basically bought his way in. If he bought TNA or the NWA and increased their ratings and revenue ten fold, that would be a different story. He used his father's money and TV network executive connections to get a show. That is literally all he has done so far. The story is not far enough along to be told yet.

Now that the new car smell is wearing off after a year, it is time to see if he can really swim and build something, or just pack more clowns into the already full clowncar.


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Chip Chipperson said:


> That's it folks, pack it up, I've seen it all now, Tony Khan is better than Eric Bischoff and PAUL HEYMAN according to this AEW loyalist.
> 
> Pippen, you brag how much you know about the history of wrestling so surely you'd know the following:
> 
> ...


To be fair Paul was a failure business wise. I think that's what he was getting at. Hence the jokes by dreamer and former ecw guys making those checks jokes years later 

But you are correct that Tony is nowhere near the level of heyman and bish


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## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

The Wood said:


> I haven't read the whole thread, but no, it's not the only explanation I need, haha. It's one thing to say "Of course he's not the worst," but everyone seems to struggle naming anyone worse other than Abrams and Herd.


There aren't that many options though, in the modern era. If we take the modern era as meaning televised wrestling on a semi national level. The territories aren't easily comparable because they were more compact and carny in how they were booked: squash based syndicated shows to promote the big weekend show, generally simpler times, specific audience, if you couldn't draw people to the arena they'd drop you, less need to adhere to sponsors etc. 

Really you're talking late 70's and onwards. 

Fritz, Crockett, Barnet, Graham, Watts, Gagne, Jarrett. They all knew their craft and some were better businessmen or more ambitious than others. But packaging a regional, consortium based outfit for a national audience, with limited funds, when the juggernaut from NYC was becoming a pop fad. A big ask. 

Abrams, who was cocaine crazy; Andrews, who was just filling the gap left by AWA and WCCW. Didn't have the budget to give WWF and WCW a run for their money. Plus the industry was about to go into recession. 

Herd was first in a rotation of head honchos at WCW before Bischoff had his big run. None of them apart from Watts knew wrestling. Herd was the most disasterous. The Hogan era was truly awful by 1995, yet Eric redeemed himself by seeing the potential in Nitro and the NWO angle. 

Didn't Bill Bush (another Turner executive who knew little about wrestling) sign Russo to more or less book WCW? In fairness, on paper, it was a smart and logical move. 

Heyman created a cool, low budget alternative. Unfortunately that low budget led asking Vince for help, who marketed the ECW style to perfection. Going truly mainstream accelerated costs. Maybe could have stayed alive on a CZW level, yet that core hardcore style had a shelf life. Many performers died before their time and society became more PC. Great booker though, for the most part. 

Sapolsky's ROH was a breeding ground for talent and was strong enough to find a TV deal and then a buyer for the company. But there's never been any desire nor investment to make mega waves. Delirious has continued the same approach of being a well oiled little machine. 

Enough already said about Carter. Like with ROH, Prichard and D'Amore are just steady hands for a very much subdued TNA/Impact. Now a little content providing asset for a media company and unlikely to push further. 

It's not binary in wrestling in today's environment. Khan could be a good businessman, inexperienced promoter and poor booker.


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## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

Firefromthegods said:


> To be fair Paul was a failure business wise. I think that's what he was getting at. Hence the jokes by dreamer and former ecw guys making those checks jokes years later
> 
> But you are correct that Tony is nowhere near the level of heyman and bish


Paul Heyman rightfully gets ragged on because he wrote bounced checks and wasn't paying guys BUT ECW is still far more successful than AEW is and thats with them having a fraction of the financial support that AEW has. Eazy E took an unprofitable and failing WCW and turned it around and made the company profitable 1 year after he took over. WCW also went on to make millions of dollars in revenue and profits and went on to have the most successful faction wrestling history, in the NWO. WCW changed the business with the "Monday Night War" which is something AEW just can't compete with. Heyman and Bischoff are far above Tony as far as a promoter.


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Ozell Gray said:


> Paul Heyman rightfully gets ragged on because he wrote bounced checks and wasn't paying guys BUT ECW is still far more successful than AEW is and thats with them having a fraction of the financial support that AEW has. Eazy E took an unprofitable and failing WCW and turned it around and made the company profitable 1 year after he took over. WCW also went on to make millions of dollars in revenue and profits and went on to have the most successful faction wrestling history, in the NWO. WCW changed the business with the "Monday Night War" which is something AEW just can't compete with. Heyman and Bischoff are far above Tony as far as a promoter.


That's essentially what I said more succinctly put haha. Aew has gotta make it 5 years to atleast entertain the idea of being compared to ecw at its peak


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Firefromthegods said:


> To be fair Paul was a failure business wise. I think that's what he was getting at. Hence the jokes by dreamer and former ecw guys making those checks jokes years later
> 
> But you are correct that Tony is nowhere near the level of heyman and bish


Even as a failure of a businessman he took a promotion that in 1992-1993 was drawing 100-200 people to a sports bar (On a good night) to just 4 years later being on PPV and 6 years later signing a national television deal and being watched by over a million people.

Paul I don't think was as bad of a businessman as people say he was just trying to do way too much. He had his fingers in everything which is how an independent is generally run but once you reach "national" you need to rely on others. He couldn't do that because of his paranoia and that's where it buckled.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Even as a failure of a businessman he took a promotion that in 1992-1993 was drawing 100-200 people to a sports bar (On a good night) to just 4 years later being on PPV and 6 years later signing a national television deal and being watched by over a million people.
> 
> Paul I don't think was as bad of a businessman as people say he was just trying to do way too much. He had his fingers in everything which is how an independent is generally run but once you reach "national" you need to rely on others. He couldn't do that because of his paranoia and that's where it buckled.


ECW died because they lost their TV deal, plain and simple. And they only lost it because TNN outbid USA for RAW and dropped ECW as a result of getting them. TNN never promoted or advertised ECW but they became their #1 show in 1999. AEW will fail too if they lose their TV deal, no one can deny that. WWE would likely survive in a smaller form with just the network, but that is a maybe, not a definite considering how much their TV deal brings in.


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Two Sheds said:


> ECW died because they lost their TV deal, plain and simple. And they only lost it because TNN outbid USA for RAW and dropped ECW as a result of getting them. TNN never promoted or advertised ECW but they became their #1 show in 1999. AEW will fail too if they lose their TV deal, no one can deny that. WWE would likely survive in a smaller form with just the network, but that is a maybe, not a definite considering how much their TV deal brings in.


What about streaming services or is tv the only thing that matters still?


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## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

Two Sheds said:


> ECW died because they lost their TV deal, plain and simple. And they only lost it because TNN outbid USA for RAW and dropped ECW as a result of getting them. TNN never promoted or advertised ECW but they became their #1 show in 1999. AEW will fail too if they lose their TV deal, no one can deny that. WWE would likely survive in a smaller form with just the network, but that is a maybe, not a definite considering how much their TV deal brings in.


Plus prior to the WWE's deal with TNN, big TV rights fees weren't really a thing. ECW being fully reliant on advertising would be problematic due to both its confrontational content and WWF having a similar approach. WCW went TV 14 too. Why advertise on ECW when there was Raw, Nitro, Heat, Thunder etc. Shortly after their national debut, the backlash against WWF started and Vince promised to tone things down. ECW was fucked.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Firefromthegods said:


> What about streaming services or is tv the only thing that matters still?


Yes, a company could certainly thrive on a big deal with Netflix or Amazon too. It would just lose that "must see" feel that way to me a bit unless they really did air it live.

But that is clearly the way of the future, not cable. We are just in that interim period where cable/satellite are basically Blockbuster thinking they are the only games in town and nothing will change until they wake up one day and go out of business.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

DaSlacker said:


> Plus prior to the WWE's deal with TNN, big TV rights fees weren't really a thing. ECW being fully reliant on advertising would be problematic due to both its confrontational content and WWF having a similar approach. WCW went TV 14 too. Why advertise on ECW when there was Raw, Nitro, Heat, Thunder etc. Shortly after their national debut, the backlash against WWF started and Vince promised to tone things down. ECW was fucked.


If TNN never bid for RAW, ECW would probably have been OK. It would have been a lot cheaper to buy an ad on TNN than USA. Shows on much smaller networks still get advertisers, it just costs a lot less and the shows make a lot less.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Another name I'll throw out there for discussion: Andrew McManus. He floated World Wrestling All-Stars.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The Wood said:


> Another name I'll throw out there for discussion: Andrew McManus. He floated World Wrestling All-Stars.


I think he had PPV but didn't do TV. Worse than Khan? I'm not sure. I have friends who went to the WWA shows and said they were awesome.


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## somerandomfan (Dec 13, 2013)

Two Sheds said:


> ECW died because they lost their TV deal, plain and simple. And they only lost it because TNN outbid USA for RAW and dropped ECW as a result of getting them. TNN never promoted or advertised ECW but they became their #1 show in 1999. AEW will fail too if they lose their TV deal, no one can deny that. WWE would likely survive in a smaller form with just the network, but that is a maybe, not a definite considering how much their TV deal brings in.


Same can be said for WCW as well, a lot of us like to blame Vince Russo's shitty booking as what "killed" WCW, and yes it was shit and it did hurt ratings, but the AOL Time Warner merger and the new management deciding they didn't want wrestling on the network did more damage and that's how Vince could swoop in and buy the company for so cheap, what's a company without a TV deal worth?


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

somerandomfan said:


> Same can be said for WCW as well, a lot of us like to blame Vince Russo's shitty booking as what "killed" WCW, and yes it was shit and it did hurt ratings, but the AOL Time Warner merger and the new management deciding they didn't want wrestling on the network did more damage and that's how Vince could swoop in and buy the company for so cheap, what's a company without a TV deal worth?


Vince Russo's booking did hurt WCW's ratings and even more so its PPV business (seriously, go and look at how PPV performed after Russo got to it). Russo was not the first blow against WCW though. Kevin Nash did a pretty horrid job before him and there's a reason Eric Bischoff was replaced. AOL Time Warner wouldn't have been so desperate to get rid of wrestling if it weren't such a money pit and lawsuit magnet. The "wrestling people" ran it into the ground and were probably a nightmare to deal with most of the time. It got to the point where they were losing money just running shows. There was no way they were going to start making back the revenue to justify having the huge contracts for stars. 

AOL Time Warner was perfectly justified in getting rid of WCW. And Jamie Kellner's big reason for not doing business with Bischoff was that a lot of red flags started going up with the Fusient deal. They agreed to terms and Bischoff and Fusient just didn't get the money to AOL Time Warner and they actually wanted to buy the time-slot, which Kellner (rightly) identified as insanity. Bischoff had backers pull out, and that's probably because they were sold a bill of goods. May have even thought they were getting the WWF and didn't realise how much debt they were inheriting. But WCW got pulled from Bischoff's plate because he was fucking around. It may have actually came to fruition if Bischoff actually had the solid backing he assured AOL Time Warner he had.


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## Booooo (Jul 24, 2018)

Who are the mainstream promoters that he's up against? If that list is made up of Vince, Bischoff and Heyman, then of course the answer would be yes. Those three are responsible for creating the most mainstream and entertaining period of Wrestling there has ever been. There is no shame in Tony Khan being the worst in that list and we all know that is the case.

With that said I'm a bit disappointed with what I've seen from AEW recently. The TV time for garbage wrestlers (Such as Kiss and Janela), the severe slow paced story progression with little pay off (Page-Omega) and the lack of emphasis on the f'ing champion have been major mistakes on the part of the company.

But regardless of that, the fact that a mainstream (in the Wrestling world) alternative to WWE exists is a dream come true and something which many many many doubted would ever come about. And for that reason AEW will always have my support. I'll never understand those Wrestling "fans" who celebrate AEW's misfortunes and are clearly hoping for it's downfall. Nothing positive for the fans, wrestlers or industry would come about as a result of that.


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## kamaro011 (Jan 3, 2012)

It's hard to support AEW if they just seem be content to be a WWE-lite. I have hope in the beginning, but man each passing day that hope is slipping away. It's not bad, it just meh.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Booooo said:


> Who are the mainstream promoters that he's up against? If that list is made up of Vince, Bischoff and Heyman, then of course the answer would be yes. Those three are responsible for creating the most mainstream and entertaining period of Wrestling there has ever been. There is no shame in Tony Khan being the worst in that list and we all know that is the case.


I'd say the following are competitors:

Vince McMahon, Eric Bischoff, Paul Heyman, NJPW, AJPW, NOAH, Dragon Gate, major territories such as Florida, Georgia, Texas, Herb Abrams (Although it's debatable), TNA (2002-2014), WSX (This might actually be a legit competitor to Khan in terms of shittiness) and anything else that has reached a major network.


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## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'd say the following are competitors:
> 
> Vince McMahon, Eric Bischoff, Paul Heyman, NJPW, AJPW, NOAH, Dragon Gate, major territories such as Florida, Georgia, Texas, Herb Abrams (Although it's debatable), TNA (2002-2014), WSX (This might actually be a legit competitor to Khan in terms of shittiness) and anything else that has reached a major network.


Vince took over Georgia in about 84. Texas was made up of at least 4 promotions, Florida purchased by Crockett - I wouldn't class any of these as modern.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Pippen94 said:


> Vince took over Georgia in about 84. Texas was made up of at least 4 promotions, Florida purchased by Crockett - I wouldn't class any of these as modern.


Did I ever say modern at any point? You annoy me so much you might very well be the first and only addition to my ignore list.


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## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Have to consider not just success but entire run as promoter.
Both Heyman & Bischoff ran their respective companies out of business. Given money wwe payed end value of both was next to nothing. 

Aew exists because tk sees opportunity with broadcast rights bubble. Company has secured big TV deal & is on track for increase. Most likely tk sells company for considerable offer some time in future.

Ranking over guys who killed companies shouldn't be controversial


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Pippen94 said:


> Have to consider not just success but entire run as promoter.
> Both Heyman & Bischoff ran their respective companies out of business. Given money wwe payed end value of both was next to nothing.
> 
> Aew exists because tk sees opportunity with broadcast rights bubble. Company has secured big TV deal & is on track for increase. Most likely tk sells company for considerable offer some time in future.
> ...


So going off your logic I'm better than Jim Cornette, Paul Heyman etc because I've never sunk a wrestling company and they both have.

Stupid logic.


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## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Did I ever say modern at any point? You annoy me so much you might very well be the first and only addition to my ignore list.


I don't know - I don't read what you write too closely but in any case Texas wasn't a territory


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Chip Chipperson said:


> So going off your logic I'm better than Jim Cornette, Paul Heyman etc because I've never sunk a wrestling company and they both have.
> 
> Stupid logic.


Says his annoyed by him. Proceeds to respond to him immediately after. You my friend are a masochist hahaha


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## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Ozell Gray said:


> Paul Heyman rightfully gets ragged on because he wrote bounced checks and wasn't paying guys BUT ECW is still far more successful than AEW is and thats with them having a fraction of the financial support that AEW has. Eazy E took an unprofitable and failing WCW and turned it around and made the company profitable 1 year after he took over. WCW also went on to make millions of dollars in revenue and profits and went on to have the most successful faction wrestling history, in the NWO. WCW changed the business with the "Monday Night War" which is something AEW just can't compete with. Heyman and Bischoff are far above Tony as far as a promoter.


Ppl knock aew for its financial backing but wcw had recourses of turner empire & with it poached all of WWF's top talent. I don't see anybody mentioning that when talking about success there. In any case wcw only fleetingly had profits - one of two years then lost more than any company in history.

Peak ECW had attendance figures not that much greater than peak roh (thank young bucks) & Heyman renown for fixing figures. Despite influence company was quite small time & fell with Heyman's delusions of being bigger than they were


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Pippen94 said:


> I don't know - I don't read what you write too closely but in any case Texas wasn't a territory


Some Texas territories did get quite a sweep in terms of exposure though. World Class would run in Boston. Let’s not pretend you don’t know what is being talked about here.



Pippen94 said:


> Ppl knock aew for its financial backing but wcw had recourses of turner empire & with it poached all of WWF's top talent. I don't see anybody mentioning that when talking about success there. In any case wcw only fleetingly had profits - one of two years then lost more than any company in history.
> 
> Peak ECW had attendance figures not that much greater than peak roh (thank young bucks) & Heyman renown for fixing figures. Despite influence company was quite small time & fell with Heyman's delusions of being bigger than they were


ECW didn’t exist in a world where TNN paid $50 million for one hour of television. The idea of running big arenas was not in-line with the aesthetic choices of Heyman. You can only cram so many people into dank holes in the wall in Philly and New York. PPV was much stronger for ECW. So were TV ratings, I bet.


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## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

Many on here would hate ECW if they were just getting started in 2020. Complaints would include:

Not enough faces and heels. Too many tweeners
Pushing indie level 'wrestlers' like TPE, Sandman, Dreamer, Gangstas, Chair Swingers
Making chair shots, turns and no dq rule almost meaningless
Too many shortcuts (table spots, blood, stage dives)
Shitting on NWA
Always mentioning WWF and WCW
Putting title on a 50 year old
Hiring cast offs like Foley, Austin, Douglas, Polo, Candido, Sunny
Pushing WWF jobbers
5'7, 180 pound Mikey going over Steve Austin for world title
Turning a blind eye to drugs and alcohol. Mass Transit incident


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## kamaro011 (Jan 3, 2012)

If Paul Heyman in charge of ECW 2020 edition he will do no such thing or atleast more than half of it.


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## Mercian (Jun 26, 2020)

DaSlacker said:


> Many on here would hate ECW if they were just getting started in 2020. Complaints would include:
> 
> Not enough faces and heels. Too many tweeners
> Pushing indie level 'wrestlers' like TPE, Sandman, Dreamer, Gangstas, Chair Swingers
> ...


Not a bad post Slacker but Philly had long gone against the grain being an area for booing faces, cheering heels, tough audience, doing Memphis style or WWE lite wouldnt work there

ECW's past was Tri-state Wrestling which was a precursor to ECW style so nothing new in some respects
The original Eastern Championship Wrestling was booked very much territorial style, pretty well also
Mixture of home grown talent, veterans, indie talent-thing is they did something with most of them! 
ECW although borrowing from its past was innovative and new and eve its successor promotions were greatly influenced/copied that style as it worked for the area

AEW too frequently feels like WWE lite it hasnt ever developed its identity
Sadly "All friends Wrestling" is a bit too close to reality because they (Execs, promoters etc) are all huge marks for themselves and addicted to social media
It's a shame it has to do sub-RAW comedy and stupidity and bad booking because the best thing about the promotion is the Wrestling


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Mercian said:


> Not a bad post Slacker but Philly had long gone against the grain being an area for booing faces, cheering heels, tough audience, doing Memphis style or WWE lite wouldnt work there
> 
> ECW's past was Tri-state Wrestling which was a precursor to ECW style so nothing new in some respects
> The original Eastern Championship Wrestling was booked very much territorial style, pretty well also
> ...



the question is is it up the Tony or the EVPS to figure out what the Identity is of AEW. I mean if Tony is not going to decide i guess they better do it. Even Cody said they dont have one yet


----------



## Top bins (Jul 8, 2019)

Yes. He lets a pwg nobody, wear a mask as the play by play commentator. Plenty of other reasons too. 

Imagine Michael Cole wearing a mask ffs


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The Wood said:


> Some Texas territories did get quite a sweep in terms of exposure though. World Class would run in Boston. Let’s not pretend you don’t know what is being talked about here.


World Class was also popular in Israel, known in Japan etc. To me that's reaching the mainstream, Pippen knows full well that I'm not referring to Amarillo or any other Texas territories he's just deliberately being difficult.



DaSlacker said:


> Many on here would hate ECW if they were just getting started in 2020. Complaints would include:
> 
> Not enough faces and heels. Too many tweeners
> Pushing indie level 'wrestlers' like TPE, Sandman, Dreamer, Gangstas, Chair Swingers
> ...


Admittedly ECW was quite overrated also (Although I didn't live it so maybe not to some) but to comment on some of these:

- I think most guys were clear cut faces and heels weren't they? Not in a traditional sense where the face kisses babies and hugs women at ringside but most guys were pretty clear cut despite the shads of grey.

- I'm not so sure, see the difference between ECW doing this and AEW doing this is the guys they used were believable. Axl and Balls looked like they'd kill you in a bar brawl, Gangstas legitimately looked like two guys who would knife you if you crossed them (And at least one of them actually does do that), Dreamer, Sandman and The Public Enemy also all fit what ECW was portraying them as. Also, none of these guys were skinny geeks and had size to them (Even if it was fat)

- The overreliance on weapons is one of my criticisms of ECW when I go back and watch now. It gets boring real quick if you see a chair shot in the opening contest and then in the main event you see someone get hit with a kitchen sink

- They shit on the NWA once when it was a 4-5 territory system. Despite loving the NWA I was never really offended by it because it totally fit their anti establishment deal.

- They mentioned WWF and WCW quite often but less than AEW. Also, Joey did it in a way that made ECW look good and not desperate. I cringe at some of AEW's bullshit lines.

- Title on a 50 year old would be fine if it was one of the greatest wrestlers of all time. Nobody really criticised AEW to my knowledge for putting thei title on 50 year old Jericho.

- Castoffs were fine because again in ECW they made them more valuable and weren't desperately bringing anyone in whether they fit or not to "one up" the WWE.

- Again, the guys who jobbed in WWF usually came in under a gimmick change.

- Mikey beating Austin was stupid but at least it was a flash roll up (If I recall correctly) as opposed to beating him clean.

- Agree, alcohol and drugs would rightfully be shit on.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

DaSlacker said:


> Many on here would hate ECW if they were just getting started in 2020. Complaints would include:
> 
> Not enough faces and heels. Too many tweeners
> Pushing indie level 'wrestlers' like TPE, Sandman, Dreamer, Gangstas, Chair Swingers
> ...


ECW doesn’t hold up as well as people think. There are a lot of smoke and mirrors there and it was very much a product of its time. If it came around now, yes, it probably would have been shit on — and rightfully so. Heyman wouldn’t do things exactly the same.

Chip’s response to this is spot-on. I don’t think ECW really even had (m)any tweeners. The violence and the drugs do deserve criticism. Hell, the industry is still reeling from the after effects of that.


----------



## qntntgood (Mar 12, 2010)

Booooo said:


> Who are the mainstream promoters that he's up against? If that list is made up of Vince, Bischoff and Heyman, then of course the answer would be yes. Those three are responsible for creating the most mainstream and entertaining period of Wrestling there has ever been. There is no shame in Tony Khan being the worst in that list and we all know that is the case.
> 
> With that said I'm a bit disappointed with what I've seen from AEW recently. The TV time for garbage wrestlers (Such as Kiss and Janela), the severe slow paced story progression with little pay off (Page-Omega) and the lack of emphasis on the f'ing champion have been major mistakes on the part of the company.
> 
> But regardless of that, the fact that a mainstream (in the Wrestling world) alternative to WWE exists is a dream come true and something which many many many doubted would ever come about. And for that reason AEW will always have my support. I'll never understand those Wrestling "fans" who celebrate AEW's misfortunes and are clearly hoping for it's downfall. Nothing positive for the fans, wrestlers or industry would come about as a result of that.


No one want to see aew go out of business,but they are tired of the bullshit product that aew as been giving them recently.and fans are tired of aew bending over backwards to apses Dave meltzer,the recent product stinks.


----------



## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

Pippen94 said:


> Ppl knock aew for its financial backing but wcw had recourses of turner empire & with it poached all of WWF's top talent. I don't see anybody mentioning that when talking about success there. In any case wcw only fleetingly had profits - one of two years then lost more than any company in history.
> 
> Peak ECW had attendance figures not that much greater than peak roh (thank young bucks) & Heyman renown for fixing figures. Despite influence company was quite small time & fell with Heyman's delusions of being bigger than they were


Because WCW actually beat WWF in the ratings and signed away their big names while AEW had only signed old guys and midcarders and are only getting a hundred thousand more viewers than WWE's developmental. WCW made more in profits in 1995-98 than AEW has made the past year. 

ECW wasn't as great as some claim it to be and it was a lot of smoke and mirrors there but it still has more success than AEW has had. Heyman made bad business decisions like continuing to do hardcore things when TNN told him to stop doing that and it cost them their tv deal because TNN then signed Raw to a deal to replace them and he may have fudged attendance numbers but they only had a fraction of the budget that AEW has. Tony Khan is fudging attendance numbers too so you can't call out Heyman for doing it when Tony is doing it too.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

I have specifically mentioned Eric Bischoff’s pay to play shock and awe approach. Pippen saying “I don’t see anyone talking about it” is being deliberately misleading. Again.

That being said, there’s even _more_ reason for Tony Khan to have taken that approach given the money is in TV rights fees. You get stars on your TV and you’re going to get a certain number of eyeballs. That’s money. But he got Jericho and Moxley, put on Double or Nothing and missed out on Punk, Orton, Brock, Edge and Goldberg. Don’t tell me that toy line doesn’t do any better than The Bucks and Brandi.


----------



## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

Mercian, Chip Chiperson and The Wood. You all put across some good points about ECW that I can't say I disagree with. 

I always considered most of the regular talent there to be heels, then later on tweeners, when I first heard the word. But I was raised on Hulkamania and Sting, so back in 94 and 95 the ECW product was so jarring compared to what mainstream wrestling was putting out. Hardcore TV is not something I've revisited since and the memory can play tricks. Maybe it comes across differently post Attitude/Ruthless Aggression/TNA. Will have to binge watch during UK Lockdown 2 LOL.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

DaSlacker said:


> Mercian, Chip Chiperson and The Wood. You all put across some good points about ECW that I can't say I disagree with.
> 
> I always considered most of the regular talent there to be heels, then later on tweeners, when I first heard the word. But I was raised on Hulkamania and Sting, so back in 94 and 95 the ECW product was so jarring compared to what mainstream wrestling was putting out. Hardcore TV is not something I've revisited since and the memory can play tricks. Maybe it comes across differently post Attitude/Ruthless Aggression/TNA. Will have to binge watch during UK Lockdown 2 LOL.


A friend of mine recently downloaded 1997 of Hardcore TV and is going through it. They’re having a ball, but they also went through Shotgun Saturday Night and Jakked. ECW can be really good, or it can cross into guilty pleasure as you re-examine the culture.


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

Basically, chips asked a question, but if you don’t give the answer he wants he’ll argue with you, then he’ll moan he’s allowed an opinion etc.....I’ve been of here a month or so, guess what the same bloke is talking the same shit, I’ve no idea how you find the energy.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Danielallen1410 said:


> Basically, chips asked a question, but if you don’t give the answer he wants he’ll argue with you, then he’ll moan he’s allowed an opinion etc.....I’ve been of here a month or so, guess what the same bloke is talking the same shit, I’ve no idea how you find the energy.


You've been off a month and come back and get straight back into talking about members instead of the topic. I hope your return doesn't last long.


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

Cult03 said:


> You've been off a month and come back and get straight back into talking about members instead of the topic. I hope your return doesn't last long.


Considering how he's been around on this site for 4 years now (and counting), I have a pretty good feeling that his return will last long thankfully. 

For the record, you're doing the same as what you're accusing him of doing; so what's your deal?

Anyway, Tony Khan is still a solid wrestling promoter. It's nice seeing the vote poll prove the question of this thread wrong too


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

DammitChrist said:


> Considering how he's been around on this site for 4 years now (and counting), I have a pretty good feeling that his return will last long thankfully.
> 
> For the record, you're doing the same as what you're accusing him of doing; so what's your deal?
> 
> Anyway, Tony Khan is still a solid wrestling promoter. It's nice seeing the vote poll prove the question of this thread wrong too


"Takes one to know one". Jesus Christ, I'm obviously calling out his response. And in turn you're doing the same thing, so who is in the wrong here? 

I didn't even vote and don't plan on it. He sucks as a promoter as he's lost a lot of peoples trust within a year of the company existing. Most people know he's full of shit, even the AEW super fans.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

How dare people discuss things on a discussion board?!? Grrr! It’s good that someone finally came back to tell about it without adding any content. That’s our champ.


----------



## Pentagon Senior (Nov 16, 2019)

Cult03 said:


> "Takes one to know one". Jesus Christ, I'm obviously calling out his response. And in turn you're doing the same thing, so who is in the wrong here?
> 
> I didn't even vote and don't plan on it. He sucks as a promoter as he's lost a lot of peoples trust within a year of the company existing. Most people know he's full of shit, even the AEW super fans.


And yet you still watch his product and spend time discussing it (when there are other options). He can't be that bad of a promoter. I dislike 95% of TV shows so, guess what, I don't watch them nor waste my time taking about them.

TK has achieved a lot in his first year in terms of tv deal, selling out arenas, good tv ratings, put on some of the best matches and ppv's during that time etc - kudos to him.


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Ozell Gray said:


> Because WCW actually beat WWF in the ratings and signed away their big names while AEW had only signed old guys and midcarders and are only getting a hundred thousand more viewers than WWE's developmental. WCW made more in profits in 1995-98 than AEW has made the past year.
> 
> ECW wasn't as great as some claim it to be and it was a lot of smoke and mirrors there but it still has more success than AEW has had. Heyman made bad business decisions like continuing to do hardcore things when TNN told him to stop doing that and it cost them their tv deal because TNN then signed Raw to a deal to replace them and he may have fudged attendance numbers but they only had a fraction of the budget that AEW has. Tony Khan is fudging attendance numbers too so you can't call out Heyman for doing it when Tony is doing it too.


ECW was never at aew level. Even at end buildings they were running (& not filling) were level or two below.
BTW, never heard of tk fudging numbers but I guess ppl making unsubstantiated claims is in vogue right now


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> World Class was also popular in Israel, known in Japan etc. To me that's reaching the mainstream, Pippen knows full well that I'm not referring to Amarillo or any other Texas territories he's just deliberately being difficult.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What makes old school territory promoters so good?? Basically had monopoly; commission banned outside companies, sweetheart deals with local TV, media & buildings, no cable...
As soon as Vince went national & promotions finally had competition each folded in quick succession.
Aew has been opposed from very start but still gained TV deal with new show on way. Won in ratings something like 53 weeks out of 54. Tk really building strong resume


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Pentagon Senior said:


> And yet you still watch his product and spend time discussing it (when there are other options). He can't be that bad of a promoter. I dislike 95% of TV shows so, guess what, I don't watch them nor waste my time taking about them.
> 
> TK has achieved a lot in his first year in terms of tv deal, selling out arenas, good tv ratings, put on some of the best matches and ppv's during that time etc - kudos to him.


Stop trying to gatekeep.

None of those things are really achievements when you consider his budget and that they were basically paid positions. 



Pippen94 said:


> ECW was never at aew level. Even at end buildings they were running (& not filling) were level or two below.
> BTW, never heard of tk fudging numbers but I guess ppl making unsubstantiated claims is in vogue right now


Different time. Heyman’s goal was not to mobilise a global audience and get them to make up a few travelling crowds. AEW has not done better than ECW in terms of TV ratings or PPV buys.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Pippen94 said:


> What makes old school territory promoters so good?? Basically had monopoly; commission banned outside companies, sweetheart deals with local TV, media & buildings, no cable...
> As soon as Vince went national & promotions finally had competition each folded in quick succession.
> Aew has been opposed from very start but still gained TV deal with new show on way. Won in ratings something like 53 weeks out of 54. Tk really building strong resume


This is such a bad view of history. Like, holy shit, wow.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Pentagon Senior said:


> And yet you still watch his product and spend time discussing it (when there are other options). He can't be that bad of a promoter. I dislike 95% of TV shows so, guess what, I don't watch them nor waste my time taking about them.
> 
> TK has achieved a lot in his first year in terms of tv deal, selling out arenas, good tv ratings, put on some of the best matches and ppv's during that time etc - kudos to him.


I watch highlights most weeks, but you're right I still watch. Not trusting the promoter hasn't made me stop watching sometimes, yet. But that good will won't last forever. I discuss all kinds of wrestling. I despise CZW and death match wrestling but if you want to discuss that I would too. I like wrestling, but I think a lot of companies could be much better, AEW included.

Do you think most of those things would have happened without TK? I do. He might have had connections for the TV deal, but he's not the draw that sold out arenas and got average ratings.


----------



## Pentagon Senior (Nov 16, 2019)

The Wood said:


> Stop trying to gatekeep.
> 
> None of those things are really achievements when you consider his budget and that they were basically paid positions


Well I'm impressed by it. Hadn't seen that level of ticket sales, excited crowds, quality of ppv's since the hey day of wrestling. I was a lapsed fan who is now back watching wrestling again and I'm not the only one. We can always reach for excuses (you'd be mad to try this without money tbh) but TK pulled it off - so kudos. There are plenty of sports teams/franchises who spend big but dont get anywhere near this level of instant success. 

Some people seem to have no idea how damaging it is to spend large amounts of time annd energy in negativity rather than being constructive with their lives. Look around you at society - it's a genuine worry! If you spent a month not thinking about stuff you hate your life would instantly transform for the better - basic psychology.


----------



## Pentagon Senior (Nov 16, 2019)

Cult03 said:


> I watch highlights most weeks, but you're right I still watch. Not trusting the promoter hasn't made me stop watching sometimes, yet. But that good will won't last forever. I discuss all kinds of wrestling. I despise CZW and death match wrestling but if you want to discuss that I would too. I like wrestling, but I think a lot of companies could be much better, AEW included.
> 
> Do you think most of those things would have happened without TK? I do. He might have had connections for the TV deal, but he's not the draw that sold out arenas and got average ratings.


I mean, it would be impossible to tell. He's the only one doing it and achieving the things I listed so I have to give him credit for that. Anything else is supposition. There are plenty of examples of enterprises who have thrown lots of money around and failed, it's never a full gone conclusion in that way.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Pentagon Senior said:


> I mean, it would be impossible to tell. He's the only one doing it and achieving the things I listed so I have to give him credit for that. Anything else is supposition. There are plenty of examples of enterprises who have thrown lots of money around and failed, it's never a full gone conclusion in that way.


It's not impossible to tell. ROH and Chris Jericho sold out the arena.


----------



## Pentagon Senior (Nov 16, 2019)

Cult03 said:


> It's not impossible to tell. ROH and Chris Jericho sold out the arena.


I've only seen a few clips of ROH and found it boring/stale at first glance, to be honest. Was that one off or did they do it regularly? Did they get a tv deal?


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Pentagon Senior said:


> I've only seen a few clips of ROH and found it boring/stale at first glance, to be honest. Was that one off or did they do it regularly? Did they get a tv deal?


Yeah they took the most popular wrestlers from ROH and a few NJPW stars and Jericho, got a TV deal with TNT and called it AEW Dynamite.


----------



## Pentagon Senior (Nov 16, 2019)

Cult03 said:


> Yeah they took the most popular wrestlers from ROH and a few NJPW stars and Jericho, got a TV deal with TNT and called it AEW Dynamite.


Ah right, I'm with you. To be honest - that sounds like a good thing? All I know is this is the first time I've watched wrestling regularly since 2002 and whilst there's bits I would change I enjoy it overall. The crowd reactions pre covid and some of the matches & ppv's had me remembering how excited I used to be as a kid watching WWE. With that said, I'm less inclined to sh1t on TK but rather thank him for his part in that.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

The TNT deal was announced before they did a show. Let’s not pretend this is all based on merit. It was based on potential, connections and capital. AEW had the resources to get the stars to provide an alternative in the market.


----------



## Pentagon Senior (Nov 16, 2019)

The Wood said:


> The TNT deal was announced before they did a show. Let’s not pretend this is all based on merit. It was based on potential, connections and capital. AEW had the resources to get the stars to provide an alternative in the market.


That's fair enough but it still had to be pulled off. If it was that easy there would be others doing it, either with their own money, or external finance. 

I've already mentioned that there are endless examples of enterprises that spent a lot of money and got no success. For me, the ticket sales, crowd reactions, excellent ppv's and one-off matches highlight that success.

Anyone can say 'give me that money and I'd do even better'. It is a thing that fans often say about sports teams, tv shows, wrestling etc. But 99% of the time we accept it is nonsense and those fans have little idea of the complexities of running a business at that level.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Pentagon Senior said:


> That's fair enough but it still had to be pulled off. If it was that easy there would be others doing it, either with their own money, or external finance.
> 
> I've already mentioned that there are endless examples of enterprises that spent a lot of money and got no success. For me, the ticket sales, crowd reactions, excellent ppv's and one-off matches highlight that success.
> 
> Anyone can say 'give me that money and I'd do even better'. It is a thing that fans often say about sports teams, tv shows, wrestling etc. But 99% of the time we accept it is nonsense and those fans have little idea of the complexities of running a business at that level.


The money has only been there since 2019 when Vince got his new deals kicked in. I wish you would see more getting involved, but AEW would probably put them off.


----------



## Mercian (Jun 26, 2020)

Give me the money an I`ll do better 

Seriously, give me Griff Garrison and Pillman Jr and all the Dark enhancement talent and I`ll get you 1m a week viewers every week and do a better show within three months

Tony Khan if your reading this open challenge ! 🐓


----------



## Pentagon Senior (Nov 16, 2019)

The Wood said:


> The money has only been there since 2019 when Vince got his new deals kicked in. I wish you would see more getting involved, but AEW would probably put them off.


Ah ok, well let's hope that happens at some point as a variety of options can only be a good thing.


----------



## Pentagon Senior (Nov 16, 2019)

Mercian said:


> Give me the money an I`ll do better
> 
> Seriously, give me Griff Garrison and Pillman Jr and all the Dark enhancement talent and I`ll get you 1m a week viewers every week and do a better show within three months
> 
> Tony Khan if your reading this open challenge ! 🐓


Pretty much every fan of any sport/industry thinks this way


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Cult03 said:


> Yeah they took the most popular wrestlers from ROH and a few NJPW stars and Jericho, got a TV deal with TNT and called it AEW Dynamite.


Did what Heyman couldn't; took smalltime product & made it mainstream


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

Pippen94 said:


> ECW was never at aew level. Even at end buildings they were running (& not filling) were level or two below.
> BTW, never heard of tk fudging numbers but I guess ppl making unsubstantiated claims is in vogue right now


Define level

ECW drew 6,000 houses at their peak, 80-90k domestic ppvs buys and a million viewers on much smaller tv channel than TNT a few times.

They did this on a shoestring budget as opposed to AEW spending hundreds of millions..


----------



## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

Pippen94 said:


> ECW was never at aew level. Even at end buildings they were running (& not filling) were level or two below.
> BTW, never heard of tk fudging numbers but I guess ppl making unsubstantiated claims is in vogue right now


ECW did better viewership numbers than AEW and if you don't think Tony Khan's fudging numbers then you need to stop talking about wrestling because every promoter has done that and Khan is no different. ECW also drew 90k PPV buys in the U.S while AEW does way less than that domestically, hence why Meltzer always includes the overseas numbers to claim the 100k buys so yeah ECW was more successful than AEW.


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

Pippen94 said:


> Did what Heyman couldn't; took smalltime product & made it mainstream


Please stop. How is a company owned by a multi billionaire many times richer than Vince who owns an NFL team and premier league team small-time?

It's akin to saying Microsoft were a small time company when they first entered the computer game market launching the Xbox..


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

validreasoning said:


> Please stop. How is a company owned by a multi billionaire many times richer than Vince who owns an NFL team and premier league team small-time?
> 
> It's akin to saying Microsoft were a small time company when they first entered the computer game market launching the Xbox..


Somebody said he took roh stars & got TV contract - don't remember roh being mainstream juggernaut


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Pippen94 said:


> Did what Heyman couldn't; took smalltime product & made it mainstream


His father's money did what Heyman could not because Paul Heyman was not a billionaire. THAT is the difference here, not talent. Paul Heyman could do more with $100 than Tony Khan could do with a million.


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Ozell Gray said:


> ECW did better viewership numbers than AEW and if you don't think Tony Khan's fudging numbers then you need to stop talking about wrestling because every promoter has done that and Khan is no different. ECW also drew 90k PPV buys in the U.S while AEW does way less than that domestically, hence why Meltzer always includes the overseas numbers to claim the 100k buys so yeah ECW was more successful than AEW.


Where is proof numbers are false?? Wrestlers gone on record saying Heyman fudge numbers


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Two Sheds said:


> His father's money did what Heyman could not because Paul Heyman was not a billionaire. THAT is the difference here, not talent. Paul Heyman could do more with $100 than Tony Khan could do with a million.


Sinclair is loaded, had young bucks, sold out msg... But tk took it mainstream according to poster


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

Pippen94 said:


> Sinclair is loaded, had young bucks, sold out msg... But tk took it mainstream according to poster


Sinclair haven't spent any money on pro wrestling thats the difference

ROH didn't even own a proper lighting rig until very recently whereas AEW had huge juggernauts outside their first show.

Even during lockdown WWE were taping in tiny gym, AEW in a fucking football stadium.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Pippen94 said:


> Sinclair is loaded, had young bucks, sold out msg... But tk took it mainstream according to poster


Where in my post did I mention Sinclair or ROH? I am comparing Paul Heyman to Tony Khan. If Paul had a billionaire father, history would look quite different.


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

validreasoning said:


> Sinclair haven't spent any money on pro wrestling thats the difference
> 
> ROH didn't even own a proper lighting rig until very recently whereas AEW had huge juggernauts outside their first show.
> 
> Even during lockdown WWE were taping in tiny gym, AEW in a fucking football stadium.


No - roh tried playing bigger arenas prior to corona & like ECW struggled to fill them & make jump to next level. Buildings were smaller still than what aew uses. 
Interesting angle you guys are running with; aew took niche product & increased attendances 600%, ppv even greater, scored TV deal which was renewed including another show. All in all a great effort


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

I heard AEW had ads on during RAW yesterday (not the first time) and Sunday Night Football? I'm not in America, but was it a good ad?


----------



## Pentagon Senior (Nov 16, 2019)

Ozell Gray said:


> ECW did better viewership numbers than AEW and if you don't think Tony Khan's fudging numbers then you need to stop talking about wrestling because every promoter has done that and Khan is no different. ECW also drew 90k PPV buys in the U.S while AEW does way less than that domestically, hence why Meltzer always includes the overseas numbers to claim the 100k buys so yeah ECW was more successful than AEW.


Is it a like for like comparison in terms of numbers considering the changes to the industry over time? Didn't WWE used to get several times the number of views 20 years ago than they do today?


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

Pentagon Senior said:


> Is it a like for like comparison in terms of numbers considering the changes to the industry over time? Didn't WWE used to get several times the number of views 20 years ago than they do today?


RAW got more than today while having Nitro opposite it. In the midst of the Monday Night Wars, you'd have weeks like RAW getting 4.3 and Nitro getting 4.6 or vice versa. When RAW went unopposed one week in '99, it did an 8.0 rating. Last week, RAW did a 1.63 although I expect this week's to do higher after they had the big Orton/Drew main event.

It's pointless to compare the industry now to then really, especially in terms of TV ratings. Pro wrestling was heavily embedded in mainstream culture. Kids at school would sit apart based on whether they were nWo Black & White or nWo Wolfpac. Vince ruined the industry by buying out WCW and then letting his product grow stale and shit after a few years (it was still ok during Ruthless Aggression but then it went downhill badly).

I was a HUGE ECW fan while it was hot and Heyman did revolutionary stuff that Vince pretty much stole in bulk from him. But Heyman was also terrible with money, something Tony Khan probably isn't. ECW on TNN ratings were actually quite similar to AEW Dynamite but did hit 1m more often. By the end though, they were down to 0.6 and 0.7 in what was a hot period for pro wrestling.


----------



## Pentagon Senior (Nov 16, 2019)

3venflow said:


> RAW got more than today while having Nitro opposite it. In the midst of the Monday Night Wars, you'd have weeks like RAW getting 4.3 and Nitro getting 4.6 or vice versa. When RAW went unopposed one week in '99, it did an 8.0 rating. Last week, RAW did a 1.63 although I expect this week's to do higher after they had the big Orton/Drew main event.
> 
> It's pointless to compare the industry now to then really, especially in terms of TV ratings. Pro wrestling was heavily embedded in mainstream culture. Kids at school would sit apart based on whether they were nWo Black & White or nWo Wolfpac. Vince ruined the industry by buying out WCW and then letting his product grow stale and shit after a few years (it was still ok during Ruthless Aggression but then it went downhill badly).
> 
> I was a HUGE ECW fan while it was hot and Heyman did revolutionary stuff that Vince pretty much stole in bulk from him. But Heyman was also terrible with money, something Tony Khan probably isn't. ECW on TNN ratings were actually quite similar to AEW Dynamite but did hit 1m more often. By the end though, they were down to 0.6 and 0.7 in what was a hot period for pro wrestling.


Thanks for providing the info - I suspected the comparison was flawed and it seems like an entirely different set of circumstances.

I was a teenager during the AE and absolutely loved it. I never paid attention to the business side, just went along for the ride and what a ride it was! 

It feels good and nostalgic to be somewhat interested in wrestling again 20 years later but yeh - the AE was of it's time - so I struggle to imagine anything like that happening again. Things change.


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

Pippen94 said:


> No - roh tried playing bigger arenas prior to corona & like ECW struggled to fill them & make jump to next level. Buildings were smaller still than what aew uses.


ROH never had the budget that AEW has so not sure the comparison

AEW were being advertised in the middle of NBA conference finals before they even had their first event. The commentary team stopped talking about the game to talk about DON and Omega vs Jericho.

Light-years away from what ROH were working with.



> Interesting angle you guys are running with; aew took niche product & increased attendances 600%, ppv even greater, scored TV deal which was renewed including another show. All in all a great effort


Not sure what you are trying to say. What niche product? 600% attendance increase compared to what?



3venflow said:


> I was a HUGE ECW fan while it was hot and Heyman did revolutionary stuff that Vince pretty much stole in bulk from him. But Heyman was also terrible with money, something Tony Khan probably isn't. ECW on TNN ratings were actually quite similar to AEW Dynamite but did hit 1m more often. By the end though, they were down to 0.6 and 0.7 in what was a hot period for pro wrestling.


ECW was run out of Heymans kitchen.

AEW have spent hundreds of millions probably close to a billion in nearly two years. ECW probably didn't spend $30 million total during their whole run so again not comparable.

Tony Khan has all the money in the world to work with. He can outbid WWE for the top stars in the industry, a WWE than had more money now than in 1998!!!


----------



## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

Pippen94 said:


> Where is proof numbers are false?? Wrestlers gone on record saying Heyman fudge numbers


Like I said all promoters fudge numbers including Tony Khan. They weren’t drawing 10,000 people at PPVs without comps. They used comps just like every company does to make it look like a full house.



Pentagon Senior said:


> Is it a like for like comparison in terms of numbers considering the changes to the industry over time? Didn't WWE used to get several times the number of views 20 years ago than they do today?


Yes because he claimed AEW is more successful than ECW when ECW had better numbers than AEW across the board. WWE used to do 6 million viewers and has dropped down to 2.1 million.



3venflow said:


> ECW on TNN ratings were actually quite similar to AEW Dynamite but did hit 1m more often. By the end though, they were down to 0.6 and 0.7 in what was a hot period for pro wrestling.


ECW on TNN were regularly drawing over 1 million viewers a week which is more than what AEW are getting.


----------



## Pentagon Senior (Nov 16, 2019)

Ozell Gray said:


> Yes because he claimed AEW is more successful than ECW when ECW had better numbers than AEW across the board. WWE used to do 6 million viewers and has dropped down to 2.1 million.


Right, which suggests that the general wrestling audience has reduced dramatically in those 20 years - making it a flawed comparison?

I used to be able to get 3 cans of coke from £1 in the 90's but can only get 1 today. I'd rather have 3 cans for my money but without time travel that seems unlikely! 1 can today is as impressive as 3 back then. 

We must move with the times and make reasonable comparisons factoring in those changes.


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

Ozell Gray said:


> ECW on TNN were regularly drawing over 1 million viewers a week which is more than what AEW are getting.


I did say they hit 1m more often, but it was hardly a weekly occurrence after February 2000 (they got on TNN in August '99). We also have to factor in how hot the business was and the different TV situation back then, much like we do inflation with money. Even with WCW starting to lose more viewers to RAW, 8-9m were often watching wrestling on Mondays and there will always be those who seek out more, like ECW. More people watched wrestling then and more people watched live TV then. In that sense, AEW is doing pretty well for an upstart company in a fairly dead industry. They have developed a fan base and now have to try and grow it. Advertising during Sunday Night Football and RAW like they did isn't a bad idea.


----------



## Shock Street (Oct 27, 2020)

There just aren't as many people watching TV period... I don't know that even WWE could see those numbers again even with perfect booking. There's just too much choice.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Okay, so with Tony Khan he did take a product that wasn't mainstream and made it mainstream but how much credit can you really give the guy? He had 100 million dollars which is an absolute shit load of money. 

100 million USD for example here in Australia could buy Khan a couple of the big rugby teams and a few of the smaller teams. 100 million would probably be enough for him to start his own professional sporting league here in Australia in a major sport. It'd definitely be enough for him to buy his own soccer league or something like that here.

So when you take that into account yes he did make a product mainstream (Amongst wrestling fans, not in general) but he didn't really work for it. Literally anyone here could take a look at the free agents list, negotiate deals and create something that is mainstream amongst wrestling fans.

When push has truly come to shove though AEW hasn't managed to do anything worth bragging about. Everything was given to Tony and he's ran an average to bad show every week occasionally nailing it with a good show. 

Do you think if say Paul Heyman was lured from the WWE and given a hundred million that AEW wouldn't be much better? Or even someone like Eric Bischoff who gets a lot of hate?

AEW has had the biggest budget of any start up pro wrestling company ever and they are drawing 700,000 people a week to their prime time TV show and have hired the likes of Marko Stunt, Jelly Nutella, Sonny Kiss and Luther. Let that one sink in...


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

The whole ECW vs. AEW thing comes from AEW apologists trying to use AEW’s budget and them running larger arenas as evidence that they are somehow more successful than ECW. That is the skewed argument. The people comparing them are simply responding to that narrative.

When Dave Meltzer says “Nothing on PPV has done as well as AEW since WCW” he is conflating domestic and international buys for AEW and contrasting them to domestic terrestrial buys for everything else. ECW getting 99k beats their 75k North American record. Do you see how this is frustrating?

The audience for Raw has decreased, but the potential audience is still there. I don’t agree with treating people like currency and taking 1 million people for ECW (I have a feeling it was higher) and saying they count as 750k now. AEW reaches 750k people, which is less than ECW. It’s just that way. Yes, wrestling was hotter then. But yes, AEW also has a much larger budget and bigger promotional push. But don’t tell me that AEW counts as more because ECW is old. No.

The one thing I will give smaller numbers counting as more is when it comes to shares and things like buyrates when it comes compared to actual numbers of buys. For example, Hogan vs. Savage at Mania V may have “only” gotten 750k buys or whatever, but I bet you the buyrate was pretty massive, and that the number of people watching per buy was much bigger than the number of people watching Full Gear on their tablets.

When we talk about ECW back then, it’s important to remember that we might be discussing viewership versus rating at some points, and that I guarantee a few people watched ECW together, whereas AEW is much closer to a 1:1 ratio (I think Alvarez said it’s 1.7 per home). When we’re talking about sheer popularity, that is important to remember.


----------



## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

Pentagon Senior said:


> Right, which suggests that the general wrestling audience has reduced dramatically in those 20 years - making it a flawed comparison?
> 
> I used to be able to get 3 cans of coke from £1 in the 90's but can only get 1 today. I'd rather have 3 cans for my money but without time travel that seems unlikely! 1 can today is as impressive as 3 back then.
> 
> We must move with the times and make reasonable comparisons factoring in those changes.


800k viewers is terrible even for 2020 standards and shows today still get cancelled for that low viewership so these numbers aren’t impressive especially for wrestling which historically drew more than that. It’s just that AEW capped themselves with their poor booking and most people saw it and said “gnaw this isn’t for me.”



3venflow said:


> I did say they hit 1m more often, but it was hardly a weekly occurrence after February 2000 (they got on TNN in August '99). We also have to factor in how hot the business was and the different TV situation back then, much like we do inflation with money. Even with WCW starting to lose more viewers to RAW, 8-9m were often watching wrestling on Mondays and there will always be those who seek out more, like ECW. More people watched wrestling then and more people watched live TV then. In that sense, AEW is doing pretty well for an upstart company in a fairly dead industry. They have developed a fan base and now have to try and grow it. Advertising during Sunday Night Football and RAW like they did isn't a bad idea.


ECW did better ratings on a regular basis with over 1 million viewers consistently and I looked this up. AEW had 1.4 million viewers check them out and over 30% of them lost interest after they didn’t see anything new with them. Like I said before they capped themselves at 800k with their presentation and their ridiculously long matches. AEW should’ve been drawing at least 1.2 million viewers based off of the backing of Shahid Khan they have and all the millions they’re spending to get guys like Moxley, Jericho, and they tried to get Punk but Tony screwed it up by texting him an offer when he told him to offer him a contract in person. AEW was built on potential or could be but it’s since lost it’s glow and rose and people are starting to see through a lot of the smoke and mirrors.

The Monday Night War drew over 8 million viewers a week because of the storylines and that’s something AEW hasn’t grasped yet. They’re stuck on having “5*” matches to appease the Meltzer and Alvarez instead of delivering on what they promised.


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

The Wood said:


> I haven't read the whole thread, but no, it's not the only explanation I need, haha. It's one thing to say "Of course he's not the worst," but everyone seems to struggle naming anyone worse other than Abrams and Herd.


To be fair, few people also mentioned Dixie Carter.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Pippen94 said:


> Did what Heyman couldn't; took smalltime product & made it mainstream


Haha "mainstream".. Good one, Pippen.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Klitschko said:


> To be fair, few people also mentioned Dixie Carter.


That is true. I kind of slept on that one because I can see the argument that Dixie was better, in that she did more with less.


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

Ozell Gray said:


> 800k viewers is terrible even for 2020 standards and shows today still get cancelled for that low viewership so these numbers aren’t impressive especially for wrestling which historically drew more than that. It’s just that AEW capped themselves with their poor booking and most people saw it and said “gnaw this isn’t for me.”
> 
> ECW did better ratings on a regular basis with over 1 million viewers consistently and I looked this up. AEW had 1.4 million viewers check them out and over 30% of them lost interest after they didn’t see anything new with them. Like I said before they capped themselves at 800k with their presentation and their ridiculously long matches. AEW should’ve been drawing at least 1.2 million viewers based off of the backing of Shahid Khan they have and all the millions they’re spending to get guys like Moxley, Jericho, and they tried to get Punk but Tony screwed it up by texting him an offer when he told him to offer him a contract in person. AEW was built on potential or could be but it’s since lost it’s glow and rose and people are starting to see through a lot of the smoke and mirrors.
> 
> The Monday Night War drew over 8 million viewers a week because of the storylines and that’s something AEW hasn’t grasped yet. They’re stuck on having “5*” matches to appease the Meltzer and Alvarez instead of delivering on what they promised.


800k is not terrible by today's standards. _Every _indication is that TNT are happy with these ratings, with proof being a second show confirmed for 2021.

"TNT would be happy with 400,000 viewers for AEW as a starting point. If it didn't grow [from there] that would be an issue." - Meltzer in May 2019.

"People in the television industry are estimating that the debut AEW on TNT episode will average 400,000 - 500,000 viewers."

"A resounding success" - official press release of the contract extension

I know you don't like AEW, but try to look at this objectively. 800k is half of what RAW sometimes does and AEW is less than half as big as the WWE at this stage, so look at it that way. RAW did their big world title match on Monday and a tag title match and only saw a moderate increase to 1.778m. That's the biggest pro wrestling brand (by some margin) in the world with decades behind it.

AEW entered an ice cold industry and has done well for itself, even if there is much room for improvement. The ratings have not dropped below 700k since June after doing under 700k six times between April and June. The key demo is also very consistent and has now been 0.30+ for 15 straight weeks after dropping to a low of 0.22 in June.

AEW is regarded in the media as an early success with a good foundation to build on. Only on this forum does this extreme negativity exist, because the product doesn't tailor to their personal needs and they are unwilling to move on.

AEW has a good infrastructure, long-term TV deal, PPVs, talented roster, money, action figures, an upcoming video game. It's doing just fine and will be around for a long time I imagine.


----------



## somerandomfan (Dec 13, 2013)

Pippen94 said:


> Sinclair is loaded, had young bucks, sold out msg... But tk took it mainstream according to poster


Having money doesn't mean it's all up for grabs, no one at Sinclair is going to say "Okay divert all the funds away from the news networks we have across the country, spend it all on that little wrestling company we bought for cheap content."

Panda Energy had way more revenue than Vince McMahon did but doesn't mean Robert Carter was giving his money to Dixie, a multi billionaire can be in the family and doesn't mean Impact wasn't in debt and having to borrow money from Billy Corgan and Anthem before having to sell to Anthem outright.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

3venflow said:


> 800k is not terrible by today's standards. _Every _indication is that TNT are happy with these ratings, with proof being a second show confirmed for 2021.
> 
> "TNT would be happy with 400,000 viewers for AEW as a starting point. If it didn't grow [from there] that would be an issue." - Meltzer in May 2019.
> 
> ...


That’s the first time I’ve seen someone actually attribute a Meltzer quote like that. Are those actual quotes?

Either way, I don’t believe Meltzer on this subject. I’ve gone into it before, but there are a lot of problems with his maths, his reasoning, his biases and his agenda. He is fine setting an arbitrarily low bar for AEW to smash, thus making them look like a success.

The numbers are a matter of perspective. This is one those things that the “everything is subjective” people actually claim to be objective when it is not the case. 800k compared to a shitty Raw’s 1.75 million? Awkward as fuck when you’re arguing a gap in the market. And it also depends on how valuable those viewers are as consumers.

Also, and I cannot stress this enough, TNT mining AEW for free content DOES NOT automatically coincide with them being “happy.” Sometimes you do business with people you are a little cold on in hopes of growth or for pragmatic reasons. AEW’s new show could be on at 11pm on a Saturday. It could be occupying a dead zone in hopes of moving some viewers over. It could simply be to fill time. Their relationship appears to be adequate as far as the agreed upon terms go thus far. THAT DOESN’T MEAN THEY ARE THROWING PARTIES!!!

And this is a nasty generalisation, but this line of reasoning often comes from people who think USA and FOX must have massive buyer’s remorse because of Raw and SmackDown’s performances. How does that make any sense?

I’ve done business with people I don’t even know are going to do a great job because it’s been cheaper, easier, pleases other parties and might get me adequate results. It doesn’t mean I’m “happy” with them. Sometimes you’re just milking the cow you’ve got.

I’m not saying this _is_ the case. But it’s just that the opposite is not necessarily true. Do you think Vince McMahon was always happy with Shawn Michaels? Bret Hart? Steve Austin? It didn’t mean he was going to fire them or go real public with the issues there.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

3venflow said:


> 800k is not terrible by today's standards. _Every _indication is that TNT are happy with these ratings, with proof being a second show confirmed for 2021.
> 
> "TNT would be happy with 400,000 viewers for AEW as a starting point. If it didn't grow [from there] that would be an issue." - Meltzer in May 2019.
> 
> ...


As soon as I read Meltzer I stopped, with all due respect to you Meltzer is an AEW shill and can no longer be trusted with AEW news. He said last week a "storm was coming" to AEW and it ended up being Pac.


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## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

3venflow said:


> 800k is not terrible by today's standards. _Every _indication is that TNT are happy with these ratings, with proof being a second show confirmed for 2021.
> 
> "TNT would be happy with 400,000 viewers for AEW as a starting point. If it didn't grow [from there] that would be an issue." - Meltzer in May 2019.
> 
> ...


This has been gone over countless times on this forum. Once ppl start comparing ratings from 20 years ago to today means they've lost argument


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Two Sheds said:


> His father's money did what Heyman could not because Paul Heyman was not a billionaire. THAT is the difference here, not talent. Paul Heyman could do more with $100 than Tony Khan could do with a million.


If I had to entrust $100 million to someone in wrestling Paul Heyman would be bottom of list - make could start paying workers back


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Chip Chipperson said:


> As soon as I read Meltzer I stopped, with all due respect to you Meltzer is an AEW shill and can no longer be trusted with AEW news. He said last week a "storm was coming" to AEW and it ended up being Pac.


It was funny how people took that to mean Okada. Kind of backfired on him



Pippen94 said:


> This has been gone over countless times on this forum. Once ppl start comparing ratings from 20 years ago to today means they've lost argument


You are literally the person who tries to compare what AEW has done with a billionaire’s backing in 2019/2020 to what Heyman and even Dixie Carter did with ECW and TNA.


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> As soon as I read Meltzer I stopped, with all due respect to you Meltzer is an AEW shill and can no longer be trusted with AEW news. He said last week a "storm was coming" to AEW and it ended up being Pac.


Between this & false claims about crowd numbers parts of this forum becoming very trumpian


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Pippen94 said:


> If I had to entrust $100 million to someone in wrestling Paul Heyman would be bottom of list - make could start paying workers back


Well, in that we would agree. Paul should not be managing money. I just mean he was very good at getting a lot out of very little.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Pippen94 said:


> Between this & false claims about crowd numbers parts of this forum becoming very trumpian


You're right, Meltzer isn't biased despite even the superfans here admitting he is...


----------



## BlueEyedDevil (Dec 26, 2019)

Tony Khan Genghis Khan'd any possibility at being taken serious as a wrestling promoter. He also looks like a Pakistani version of Rick Moranis.


----------



## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

3venflow said:


> 800k is not terrible by today's standards. _Every _indication is that TNT are happy with these ratings, with proof being a second show confirmed for 2021.
> 
> "TNT would be happy with 400,000 viewers for AEW as a starting point. If it didn't grow [from there] that would be an issue." - Meltzer in May 2019.
> 
> ...


800k viewers even for today's standards is terrible especially since wrestling historically drew in millions of viewers every week.

Thats just them setting the bar so low that of course they're going to exceed those expectations of doing more than 400k viewers. Thats Too low of a bar to judge success on because anyone with common sense knew they were going to draw way more than 400k. Raw getting 1.7 million viewers isn't good either because it's down from what it used to do a couple of years ago but it's still more than Dynamite though which is why NBCUniversal are spending over $300 million a year for it.

The business is still cold with AEW on the scene though. They haven't done anything to bring interest to wrestling again. WWE is still where the interest is whether it's Raw, SmackDown, or when podcasters talk about wrestling they spend majority of the time talking about WWE because thats who brings in the money for them. AEW hasn't changed that.

0.30 is a nice rating and they consistently hit it every week but they should be doing more considering their budget is what I'm saying. They've struggled to get people interested and are now bringing in washed up celebrities like Mike Tyson and Shaquille O'Neal.


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

I love you Ozell, but Mike Tysons return to the boxing ring at the end of this month will probably have a higher buyrate then all of AEW's ppv's combined since the show first began.


----------



## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

BlueEyedDevil said:


> Tony Khan Genghis Khan'd any possibility at being taken serious as a wrestling promoter. He also looks like a Pakistani version of Rick Moranis.


Honey I Shrunk the Ratings

These wrestling promoters should be aiming their product towards the emotions of the masses, rather than the minds of the devout wrestling fan, who writes the show in their head. 

Khan talks to his audience like they're all part of the same nerdy 30 something meta clique. This is all scripted so we can do what we want and have fun doing it. Everything is workrate because their athletic ability should be admired. The fan know what a cheap finish is so we don't do them. 

McMahon talks to his audience like they're either 8 or of really low IQ. All spoon fed and buzzwords. Rather than basing it around workrate and pandering to the smart fan - though they're guilty of this too - they book according to what's least offensive for sponsors. 

The trick to actually drawing is to not overcomplicated things and instead talk to the average Joe in emotive, inclusive, layman's terms. But leave enough room to make them think they get it. That's how wrestling worked best. 

Think Simon Cowell's reality shows. Think John Cena and Brock Lesnar's time on top. Think Donald Trump's approach to divisive politics.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Klitschko said:


> I love you Ozell, but Mike Tysons return to the boxing ring at the end of this month will probably have a higher buyrate then all of AEW's ppv's combined since the show first began.


Yet AEW couldn't do a million plus when Tyson turned up...


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Pippen94 said:


> Between this & false claims about crowd numbers parts of this forum becoming very trumpian


Yeah, because realists have to pop fake news. “AEW is winning in the demos even over Raw!” I’m sure I heard that from you. Stop.


----------



## Pentagon Senior (Nov 16, 2019)

So much unfounded criticism here it seems like people are determined to paint AEW in a bad light - as though they have a vested interest 🤔

We've confirmed that viewership 20 years ago is non comparable and yet people are desperate to use that comparison to justify their agenda.

Raw getting 1.7m viewership considering their established brand being used as a stick to beat AEW is a weak argument. 

AEW getting 800k opposed and up to 1m unopposed, after one year of trading and during a global pandemic...is...good. TNT are clearly satisfied which counts for more than the opinion of a handful of 'experts' on a wrestling forum.


----------



## kyledriver (May 22, 2020)

Literally all ratings are down across all television and all sports.

But I guess I'm an aew apologist now 

Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

3venflow said:


> 800k is not terrible by today's standards. _Every _indication is that TNT are happy with these ratings, with proof being a second show confirmed for 2021.
> 
> "TNT would be happy with 400,000 viewers for AEW as a starting point. If it didn't grow [from there] that would be an issue." - Meltzer in May 2019.
> 
> ...


TNT are not giving two hours primetime to a show they hope will draw 400,000.



> I know you don't like AEW, but try to look at this objectively. 800k is half of what RAW sometimes does and AEW is less than half as big as the WWE at this stage, so look at it that way. RAW did their big world title match on Monday and a tag title match and only saw a moderate increase to 1.778m. That's the biggest pro wrestling brand (by some margin) in the world with decades behind it


What's your argument here? Shows normally get less viewers the longer they go look at Simpsons, family guy, South Park, survivor, ultimate fighter, pawn stars, walking dead. Also SD did 2.4 million just over a week ago live.

I mean AEW beat NXT viewership by 17% last week. Dynamite would need to grow viewership by 150% from last week to match this past Mondays Raw.



> AEW entered an ice cold industry and has done well for itself, even if there is much room for improvement. The ratings have not dropped below 700k since June after doing under 700k six times between April and June. The key demo is also very consistent and has now been 0.30+ for 15 straight weeks after dropping to a low of 0.22 in June.
> 
> AEW is regarded in the media as an early success with a good foundation to build on. Only on this forum does this extreme negativity exist, because the product doesn't tailor to their personal needs and they are unwilling to move on.
> 
> AEW has a good infrastructure, long-term TV deal, PPVs, talented roster, money, action figures, an upcoming video game. It's doing just fine and will be around for a long time I imagine.


Industry being ice cold is horseshit sorry. Why would Shad Khan invest hundreds of millions in an ice cold industry? Why would NBC, Fox and Turner?

Khan saw the success WWE were having and said "I'll have some of that, yes yes". 

Not just tv but they saw WWE having 2 million subs for network and selling out stadiums for Mania and Rumble, setting merch sale records and wwe YouTube being 4th most watched channel on entire platform (nearly all views within last 5 years). 

They also looked at success All In and ROH had in MSG as well as NJPW in California.


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

Pentagon Senior said:


> So much unfounded criticism here it seems like people are determined to paint AEW in a bad light - as though they have a vested interest 🤔
> 
> We've confirmed that viewership 20 years ago is non comparable and yet people are desperate to use that comparison to justify their agenda.
> 
> ...


It's not criticism. Pippen claimed Tony Khan was a more successful promoter than Heyman or Bischoff and some of us have called him out on it


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Pentagon Senior said:


> So much unfounded criticism here it seems like people are determined to paint AEW in a bad light - as though they have a vested interest 🤔
> 
> We've confirmed that viewership 20 years ago is non comparable and yet people are desperate to use that comparison to justify their agenda.
> 
> ...


Has anyone even brought up ratings from 20 years ago? I haven’t gone through the whole thread, but the one that makes sense is bringing up Raw’s CURRENT ratings, which are definitely relevant. They are both wrestling programs on basic cable in 2020. It’s not some unfair slog there. I don’t know why people think Raw being old helps it. That’s just not how TV works.

800k is only good if you’re comparing it to something that doesn’t get 800k. A lot more shows on cable get a lot more viewers, and quite a few more get better demos. And I still maintain we aren’t privy to the real demos that count. It’s just a matter of perspective.

TNT will appear to be satisfied until they don’t.



kyledriver said:


> Literally all ratings are down across all television and all sports.
> 
> But I guess I'm an aew apologist now
> 
> Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk


No one is saying that they aren’t. But that doesn’t mean they have to either be where they are or can’t even get better.

Look at how many people watched election coverage. The potential to do those numbers is literally out there. Cable still exists in people’s homes. They don’t watch because they don’t want to.


----------



## ECFuckinW (Jun 29, 2020)

Numbers dictate the answer so there you go a resounding No Tony isnt the worst sorry OP.


----------



## ECFuckinW (Jun 29, 2020)

The Wood said:


> Has anyone even brought up ratings from 20 years ago? I haven’t gone through the whole thread, but the one that makes sense is bringing up Raw’s CURRENT ratings, which are definitely relevant. They are both wrestling programs on basic cable in 2020. It’s not some unfair slog there. I don’t know why people think Raw being old helps it. That’s just not how TV works.
> 
> 800k is only good if you’re comparing it to something that doesn’t get 800k. A lot more shows on cable get a lot more viewers, and quite a few more get better demos. And I still maintain we aren’t privy to the real demos that count. It’s just a matter of perspective.
> 
> ...


Omg are you serious???

RAW or SMACKDOWN being on for decades has a built in audience that tunes in out of product loyalty.You honestly don't see the advantage of decades of advertising and the presence of being around so long as an advantage?

Again you sounding crazy.


----------



## Dickhead1990 (Aug 31, 2016)

The Wood said:


> Has anyone even brought up ratings from 20 years ago? I haven’t gone through the whole thread, but the one that makes sense is bringing up Raw’s CURRENT ratings, which are definitely relevant. They are both wrestling programs on basic cable in 2020. It’s not some unfair slog there. I don’t know why people think Raw being old helps it. That’s just not how TV works.
> 
> 800k is only good if you’re comparing it to something that doesn’t get 800k. A lot more shows on cable get a lot more viewers, and quite a few more get better demos. And I still maintain we aren’t privy to the real demos that count. It’s just a matter of perspective.
> 
> TNT will appear to be satisfied until they don’t.


Of course being an established brand helps with the ratings! Being established in any market (consumer products, service sector, entertainment etc) does bring an advantage - better still if it has a good reputation. WWE has a questionable reputation, though that negative reputation is among wrestling fans and people that think wrestling in general is for fat blokes in their mum's basement. To everyone else, it has been known as synonymous with wrestling for decades now, which makes it the obvious first choice for new fans.

To get 50% of Raw's ratings within the first year is fantastic, especially considering that these are regular and stable figures over that length of time. The real comparison though is to NXT, given that it competes with it on American TV. People can feasibly watch both Raw and AEW in a week live and not be forced to choose. In a simplistic reality they cannot with NXT and AEW (of course we know that we can, as the internet is a thing!).

At the end of the day, I believe that AEW were in profit during this time (correct me if I'm wrong), which is a fantastic achievement for any new business during their first year. Of course, we know that WWE has been too, albeit due to dodgy financial decision at the end of the last tax year (i.e. sacking a good portion of their rosters).

The thing to take out of this is that Khan has succeeded thus far and that wrestling as a whole has coped very well during the pandemic - which is nearly didn't (we can thank dodgy political influence for this).


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

ECFuckinW said:


> Numbers dictate the answer so there you go a resounding No Tony isnt the worst sorry OP.


I bet people wouldn’t be appealing to the poll if it said anything half-way negative about AEW. Some users even tried to walk back from voting Chip’s pitched show as better than Tony’s



ECFuckinW said:


> Omg are you serious???
> 
> RAW or SMACKDOWN being on for decades has a built in audience that tunes in out of product loyalty.You honestly don't see the advantage of decades of advertising and the presence of being around so long as an advantage?
> 
> Again you sounding crazy.


“Product loyalty” is a buzz phrase I don’t think people really understand. It doesn’t mean that a company can shit down your throat and you’re not going to try something else ever. Product loyalty also doesn’t mean you’re going to be #1 in the field, nor does it mean that people are necessarily loyal _to you specifically_ and not the type of product you offer.

I like Coke. That doesn’t mean I’m never ever going to drink a Pepsi.

I _still_ hear people call WWE “WWF.” Being around for a long time can work against you. “Oh, is that thing still around?” “Oh, is that show STILL on?!” Things get overexposed and fatigued in the public conscience.

I can’t seriously believe there are people who think that there is an insurmountable number of people walking around going “Man! WWE is so awesome!” just because it’s been on the air a long time. How do any of you explain something going out of business after it’s been around for a long time? It’s just a convenient excuse as to why AEW is getting their ass whooped. It’s AEW’s fault they aren’t on the tip of everyone’s tongue.

And if WWE has such a loyal fan-base that will reject any other content, and that being in the air for so long makes them inherently unbeatable (god those concepts are so ridiculous), then WHY ARE THEY BOTHERING?!?!

But yes, I am the crazy one, and it’s sane people who just yell “Product loyalty!” when trying to explain why no one watches a wrestling show that’s on at a different time. Yep.


----------



## A PG Attitude (Nov 5, 2012)

The Wood said:


> Has anyone even brought up ratings from 20 years ago? I haven’t gone through the whole thread, but the one that makes sense is bringing up Raw’s CURRENT ratings, which are definitely relevant. They are both wrestling programs on basic cable in 2020. It’s not some unfair slog there. I don’t know why people think Raw being old helps it. That’s just not how TV works.
> 
> 800k is only good if you’re comparing it to something that doesn’t get 800k. A lot more shows on cable get a lot more viewers, and quite a few more get better demos. And I still maintain we aren’t privy to the real demos that count. It’s just a matter of perspective.
> 
> ...


That's like arguing that a new mainstream burger company should be matching McDonalds for sales. Not gonna happen.


----------



## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

There's definitely a prevailing feeling that WWE is pro wrestling. That's why a lot of non fans and even some casuals might say 'are you watching wrestling tonight' as opposed to WWE. They cemented that position between 2000 and 2009. It's a glass ceiling that's hard to break, as TNA discovered in 2010. 

I still think it's understated how much WWE moving NXT to Wednesday nights put the breaks on AEW. The market for modern wrestling was already near oversaturation point. When Bischoff commissioned Nitro he had several things working in his favour. WWF running only 2 hours of original prime time content on cable. Wrestling shows were still squash based. An AAA roster of famous names. Raw and Saturday Night drawing similar ratings.

Khan walked into a minefield. Raw and SmacDown had the market on big name, PPV level matches in large arenas. AEW was inevitably going to have a "who's he" feel because there are few household names available. NXT had that covered. Wrestling had lost 1.3 million viewers since 2015, so a proportion of those + a proportion of the remaining 2.4 million viewers who wanted even more wrestling was the potential audience. NXT likely pulled in the latter. AEW wasn't ambitious or daring enough to reach beyond wanting to give people more wrestling, which is why they stalled at 0.8 or 0.9 unopposed.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

A PG Attitude said:


> That's like arguing that a new mainstream burger company should be matching McDonalds for sales. Not gonna happen.


They’re not selling burgers, so it’s not necessarily an apt analogy. I could use entertainment ones that completely counteract that. I’d maybe accept it for international reach, and I don’t ask that of AEW immediately (those deals would take time). But the idea that they can’t be the most popular TV show? Bullshit.

And they’re not going to outsell McDonald’s if their burgers are just as shitty.



DaSlacker said:


> There's definitely a prevailing feeling that WWE is pro wrestling. That's why a lot of non fans and even some casuals might say 'are you watching wrestling tonight' as opposed to WWE. They cemented that position between 2000 and 2009. It's a glass ceiling that's hard to break, as TNA discovered in 2010.
> 
> I still think it's understated how much WWE moving NXT to Wednesday nights put the breaks on AEW. The market for modern wrestling was already near oversaturation point. When Bischoff commissioned Nitro he had several things working in his favour. WWF running only 2 hours of original prime time content on cable. Wrestling shows were still squash based. An AAA roster of famous names. Raw and Saturday Night drawing similar ratings.
> 
> Khan walked into a minefield. Raw and SmacDown had the market on big name, PPV level matches in large arenas. AEW was inevitably going to have a "who's he" feel because there are few household names available. NXT had that covered. Wrestling had lost 1.3 million viewers since 2015, so a proportion of those + a proportion of the remaining 2.4 million viewers who wanted even more wrestling was the potential audience. NXT likely pulled in the latter. AEW wasn't ambitious or daring enough to reach beyond wanting to give people more wrestling, which is why they stalled at 0.8 or 0.9 unopposed.


I don’t disagree that people think WWE (or something entirely fictional) when they think of wrestling. That can be an obstacle, but it’s not necessarily an insurmountable one. You can create brand awareness for something new. It’s ridiculous to suggest otherwise (which you’re not doing, but others do).

AEW was a real potential threat in terms of potential at the start. If it had been good — actually properly good — and lured the top stars away and delivered ratings, it could have been a threat to Vince McMahon’s billions. NXT was a good gamble at the start. Something soft to not lend the threat credibility, potential monetise developmental and give Triple H an audition. The idea was necessarily to win (ESPECIALLY at the start, because AEW had the “other” effect going on), but rather just split an audience and make sure AEW doesn’t cut into WWE’s TV rights fees. It’s succeeded at that.

AEW has to blame themselves too. Their shows just haven’t had mass market appeal. 1.4 million was not a bad starting point, but they needed to grow from there. Instead of spending the money on the big stars by selling them on a clear vision that is going to respect the art form, they kind of took the piss right from the start and shut off the possibility of working with top guys, who would have loved the opportunity to go somewhere other than Vinceland, no matter what anyone else tells you. CM Punk and Randy Orton are two glaring examples of this. I will die on that hill. And if you get those talents, more become available later. This obviously brings in fans and also allows you to build excitement and the feeling of growth and legitimacy in your product.

AEW sacrificed that _on their own_. It was their choice. Maybe it’s so that Vince doesn’t kill them because they’re no threat, that way they can keep their personal piggy-bank going for as long as they want? I don’t know, but AEW is the niche of the niche instead of trying to attract young fans, new fans and lapsed fans — of which there are way more than active WWE fans.

Vince was actually vulnerable there for a second. You take his top stars and start doing pro-wrestling 2 hours a week? He’s stuck doing 5-7, which is impossible to make compulsory viewing. But nope. They’d rather have Orange Cassidy, Marko Stunt, Joey Janela and John Silver than CM Punk, Randy Orton, Brock Lesnar and AJ Styles. It’s just fucking silly.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Wood said:


> They’re not selling burgers, so it’s not necessarily an apt analogy. I could use entertainment ones that completely counteract that. I’d maybe accept it for international reach, and I don’t ask that of AEW immediately (those deals would take time). But the idea that they can’t be the most popular TV show? Bullshit.
> 
> And they’re not going to outsell McDonald’s if their burgers are just as shitty.


It would be like a new restaurant opening promising a "meat-based product" and then serving a bowl of melted crayons with a few small pieces of meat inside.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Two Sheds said:


> It would be like a new restaurant opening promising a "meat-based product" and then serving a bowl of melted crayons with a few small pieces of meat inside.


If that is even meat.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

ECFuckinW said:


> Numbers dictate the answer so there you go a resounding No Tony isnt the worst sorry OP.


A resounding no would be like a 95-5 vote. It's a no but not as clear cut as you are pretending. Many people such as my good friend Two Sheds have only brought up the likes of Abrams or Herd as worse as well which puts Khan as the worst in the 2000 - 2020 timeline.

Regardless, I think he is but I'm pleased that over 100 people have participated in the thread and that we've once again hit 20 pages for a Chip thread. And people think I'm a bad poster, can you believe it?


----------



## Whoanma (Apr 5, 2016)




----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

There are people saying “No” because of people like. Abrams and Herd, but then there are people saying “No” and then just saying “That’s ridiculous, of course he’s not. I can’t think of anyone right now, but I’m sure they exist.”


----------



## ECFuckinW (Jun 29, 2020)

The Wood said:


> I bet people wouldn’t be appealing to the poll if it said anything half-way negative about AEW. Some users even tried to walk back from voting Chip’s pitched show as better than Tony’s
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They aren't going after wwes audience they are appealing to the people who like what they offer, hence the base audience of 750-800k.

Wwe is has been the only big name in wrestling since wcw went under,people literally think wwe is all of wrestling.if you dont think wwe fans will take getting shit down their throat and still just watch it,you haven't been watching raw and smackdown the last 10 or 15 years.


----------



## ECFuckinW (Jun 29, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> A resounding no would be like a 95-5 vote. It's a no but not as clear cut as you are pretending. Many people such as my good friend Two Sheds have only brought up the likes of Abrams or Herd as worse as well which puts Khan as the worst in the 2000 - 2020 timeline.
> 
> Regardless, I think he is but I'm pleased that over 100 people have participated in the thread and that we've once again hit 20 pages for a Chip thread. And people think I'm a bad poster, can you believe it?


Ok so maybe not resounding,but the answer is absolutely clear.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

ECFuckinW said:


> Ok so maybe not resounding,but the answer is absolutely clear.


Yes, he's better than Abrams and Herd. Another money mark who ran out of money and a TV station/pizza hut manager. Not sure I'd be bragging about it and pumping fists about it but there you go.


----------



## ECFuckinW (Jun 29, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yes, he's better than Abrams and Herd. Another money mark who ran out of money and a TV station/pizza hut manager. Not sure I'd be bragging about it and pumping fists about it but there you go.


It's kinda your own fault you didn't put up options yourself and only asked if he was the worst promoter.So I'm not really concerned eith the way the goalposts shifted during the thread to appease you,since your original question was soundly answered as no.


----------



## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

The Wood said:


> They’re not selling burgers, so it’s not necessarily an apt analogy. I could use entertainment ones that completely counteract that. I’d maybe accept it for international reach, and I don’t ask that of AEW immediately (those deals would take time). But the idea that they can’t be the most popular TV show? Bullshit.
> 
> And they’re not going to outsell McDonald’s if their burgers are just as shitty.
> 
> ...


Great post

It's frustrating. A rich kid who loves pro wrestling and talks about a wrestling product you're not embarrassed to admit to enjoying. Comes along when desperate TV networks at throwing money at companies that can provide high level live content. Meanwhile WWE is such a mess the McMahon's are apologizing live on Raw. A lot of contracts are up for renewal. What a missed opportunity. One which might never happen again - the pandemic has hit the conglomerates in the pocket andor speeded up the transition from linear television to subscription streaming.

I think Khan will forever regret -
1) Not taking the fight to Raw from day one
2) Not going all in for Punk, Orton and Edge
3) Not focusing on what has always hooked fans in as opposed to how he, Kenny and the Bucks view wrestling.

Actually scrap the last one. They'll never fully get how the core basics and emotion baiting draws money over a self referential too cool for school attitude. I mean, to this day Russo still doesn't get why what he wrote for Vince McMahon didn't have the same impact in other products.

But maybe I shouldn't be too hard. I don't know for sure whether TNT would put them on a Monday or what the budget is/was or had he failed to secure a long term TV deal what the implications would be.

As a fan it's very disappointing.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

ECFuckinW said:


> They aren't going after wwes audience they are appealing to the people who like what they offer, hence the base audience of 750-800k.
> 
> Wwe is has been the only big name in wrestling since wcw went under,people literally think wwe is all of wrestling.if you dont think wwe fans will take getting shit down their throat and still just watch it,you haven't been watching raw and smackdown the last 10 or 15 years.


No, I haven’t been watching recently. I want something GOOD. AEW promises more of the BAD. No one wants more bad wrestling.

You’re not going to take away WWE’s entire audience, but you can go after those fatigued fans, lapsed fans and honest-to-god wrestling fans. Airing on a different night you might be able to convince several hundred thousand viewers to give you a shot from WWE’s base. But no.

A failed opportunity to triangulate and fill the gap in the market. They just wanted to stick their dick in a glory hole.



Chip Chipperson said:


> Yes, he's better than Abrams and Herd. Another money mark who ran out of money and a TV station/pizza hut manager. Not sure I'd be bragging about it and pumping fists about it but there you go.


He might end up worse yet. Let’s see how this all turns out! 



DaSlacker said:


> Great post
> 
> It's frustrating. A rich kid who loves pro wrestling and talks about a wrestling product you're not embarrassed to admit to enjoying. Comes along when desperate TV networks at throwing money at companies that can provide high level live content. Meanwhile WWE is such a mess the McMahon's are apologizing live on Raw. A lot of contracts are up for renewal. What a missed opportunity. One which might never happen again - the pandemic has hit the conglomerates in the pocket andor speeded up the transition from linear television to subscription streaming.
> 
> ...


I agree with almost everything here except I don’t know if they should have gone against Raw yet. There could have been a time and a place for that, but I don’t think 2019 was it. Wednesday was a fine night, but they absolutely needed to deliver a show that received with more legitimacy than Dynamite became. The bad decisions started happening night one, but did get worse and worse.

Pissing off CM Punk was a giant mistake. I will not back down from that point. Offending him with how they approached him, just assuming he would be in, doing a silly PWG style product that is never going to take it to Vince. That fucked them. When Punk signed with FOX to talk about WWE, that sent some pretty silent shockwaves through the wrestling world. EVERYONE worth a shit, EVERYONE has signed with Vince.

If you get Punk, you might get Velasquez. I can hear AEW fans whinging. People were high on his potential until the WWE decision. If you get them, you might get Randy Orton. If you get Randy Orton, hell, you might have been able to get Brock Lesnar. If you got these names, and didn’t do the silly shit, you may have been able to get Jim Cornette cutting promos for FTR and doing commentary with JR on odd occasions. Smarter decisions with the women would have stopped so many of them signing with WWE first chance. You might be looking at Ronda Rousey becoming a free agent soon. Charlotte Flair’s relationship with WWE may not be as stable as people think if you have somewhere for her and her husband to go.

All of a sudden a lot of the people you gave a shit about in WWE (or you didn’t but others did) are jumping, hurting Vince and helping AEW. Bryan Danielson, The Fatus (man is that looking stupid now), AJ Styles, Shinsuke Nakamura — they all had deals come up and AEW fail to get any of them. Rey Mysterio and Kevin Steen chose WWE too. You have Orton and Punk do you think it’s more likely Rey jumps? What about Jeff Hardy?

And don’t say there’s not things for these people to do. Jeff Hardy/Darby Allin (tag team/friendly rivalry), Rey Mysterio/Fenix, Brock/Omega (he’ll make Omega sell), Orton/Cody, Punk/Page. That’s drawing more on PPV than at least two of their existing shows put together.

If they had taken this seriously, they might have been able to smooth things over with New Japan. A bigger presence for AEW and more top stars just makes them more valuable. You can do that Omega vs. Okada match. You can do Jericho vs. Tanahashi on US soil. They may not all be PPV headliners, but they could do B/R Live specials. Or TNT specials. Or have Brock headline a PPV with Omega and Okada on it.

All this pissed away because they don’t have a serious philosophy, they were arrogant, they pissed off the top guys they tried to get in (Punk and Orton have both spoken out about this) and they value Marko fucking Stunt over this hypothetical world where wrestling fans have a fucking ace wrestling show that feels IMPORTANT.

And guess what? Those ratings are going to be higher. Those buys are going to be higher. Those shirts are going to sell more. Those arenas are going to have more people in them. More people will pick up the video game. More billionaires might look at wrestling as something viable, so when someone starts to get stale (as Moxley and Jericho are starting to get), you can send them somewhere else that isn’t WWE.

Now our only hope for this is for someone to see the giant gap in the market, pick up Punk, Orton and Ronda and hope that enough WWE contracts come up for you to replenish stars.

DAZN getting behind MLW, Sinclair behind ROH or someone new coming in entirely are the big hopes for people who want to see pro-wrestling and not subpar sports entertainment aimed at 57% of the Raw audience.


----------



## Thomazbr (Apr 26, 2009)

I for one I'm glad I'll never have to see CM Punk in a ring ever again.

Sloppy, The worst kicks in professional wrestling, The grace of a dying mule in the air, the submission skills of a parkinson diseased pacient, Mediocre Seller, overrated on the mic. 
This thread is not about this, but I just wanted to give my 2cents about it.


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

CM Punk was a great professional wrestler (who deserves ALL of the hype that he got btw), and he'd STILL be a great addition to AEW in some shape or form.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

DaSlacker said:


> Great post
> 
> It's frustrating. A rich kid who loves pro wrestling and talks about a wrestling product you're not embarrassed to admit to enjoying. Comes along when desperate TV networks at throwing money at companies that can provide high level live content. Meanwhile WWE is such a mess the McMahon's are apologizing live on Raw. A lot of contracts are up for renewal. What a missed opportunity. One which might never happen again - the pandemic has hit the conglomerates in the pocket andor speeded up the transition from linear television to subscription streaming.
> 
> ...


He doesn't owe you a damn thing 😂 😂 😂
Ridiculous.

Go risk your own money going up against RAW, spending tens if not hundred of millions more on stars and business.
What's important is that he turns a profit for him in a spam of set time period, usually 2-5 years, and if he can do that playing by his own rules, fair play to him.
He's maintained his viewership for a year now and that's when wrestling is suffering due to no crowds.


----------



## sideon (Sep 18, 2008)

DaSlacker said:


> Great post
> 
> It's frustrating. A rich kid who loves pro wrestling and talks about a wrestling product you're not embarrassed to admit to enjoying. Comes along when desperate TV networks at throwing money at companies that can provide high level live content. Meanwhile WWE is such a mess the McMahon's are apologizing live on Raw. A lot of contracts are up for renewal. What a missed opportunity. One which might never happen again - the pandemic has hit the conglomerates in the pocket andor speeded up the transition from linear television to subscription streaming.
> 
> ...





The Wood said:


> No, I haven’t been watching recently. I want something GOOD. AEW promises more of the BAD. No one wants more bad wrestling.
> 
> You’re not going to take away WWE’s entire audience, but you can go after those fatigued fans, lapsed fans and honest-to-god wrestling fans. Airing on a different night you might be able to convince several hundred thousand viewers to give you a shot from WWE’s base. But no.
> 
> ...


These posts are exactly why none of you would make it as an owner of a wrestling company. You're mad that AEW didn't immediately go up against RAW, when you can pinpoint that being the very reason for TNA's downfall. You also want AEW to sign all the misused WWE talent, and by signing all of them you've essentially created a WWE lite which is what you don't really want. The problem is that AEW boxed themselves in by making sure to constantly take shots at the WWE and swear that they would be nothing like them. Now they've tried the indie angle and that hasn't increased viewership, so now they're going the sports entertainment route which will yield the same results. They should've just carved their own little niche and built themselves up over time like TNA did from 02-09.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

The Definition of Technician said:


> He doesn't owe you a damn thing 😂 😂 😂
> Ridiculous.
> 
> Go risk your own money going up against RAW, spending tens if not hundred of millions more on stars and business.
> ...


Haha "your own money". Thanks for the millions, dad.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Cult03 said:


> Haha "your own money". Thanks for the millions, dad.


haha "you have no argument and you're just an entitled stubborn fan with no idea how to run a business"


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

The Definition of Technician said:


> haha "you have no argument and you're just an entitled stubborn fan with no idea how to run a business"


Oh, good one. If my dad gave me millions I could run a better show. Fact. I wouldn't have sent Punk a text with a contract and would have 3 actual main eventers. Automatically better within the first month. I wouldn't allow EVP's to hire all of their friends and I'd actually run the business and not let it be a free for all where everyone can do whatever they want. 

How could you not prefer this version of AEW over what they have had for a year now?


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Cult03 said:


> Oh, good one. If my dad gave me millions I could run a better show. Fact. I wouldn't have sent Punk a text with a contract and would have 3 actual main eventers. Automatically better within the first month. I wouldn't allow EVP's to hire all of their friends and I'd actually run the business and not let it be a free for all where everyone can do whatever they want.
> 
> How could you not prefer this version of AEW over what they have had for a year now?


Doubtful


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Cult03 said:


> Oh, good one. If my dad gave me millions I could run a better show. Fact. I wouldn't have sent Punk a text with a contract and would have 3 actual main eventers. Automatically better within the first month. I wouldn't allow EVP's to hire all of their friends and I'd actually run the business and not let it be a free for all where everyone can do whatever they want.
> 
> How could you not prefer this version of AEW over what they have had for a year now?


no not "fact". 
if despite him doing it "free for all", then even if he "borrowed this money from his dad", it doesn't matter. It's a start-up when eventually you need to make a return on your investment, if the guy is doing his thing and will still be breaking even in 2-5 years and that's despite what you call free for all (Allow EVPs to hire their friends and do whatever), that's good for him. He gets to stick to his values, he gets to keep his word to the EVPs who inspired him to take the initial risk to do AEW, and he's still making money.

And you're here telling me "I could do better", well we'll never know, you don't know the circumstances of everything that happened, and for all the success AEW has had, all the naysayers can say to counter it
"but it should be better" "I can do better" "Tony is wasting his money", nothing but opinions from biased absolutist nitpickers who fail to see the bigger the picture.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

700k regulars says it could be better.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Anyone could do better. Anyone who doesn't think it's possible for the average joe to do better than Tony Khan doesn't know anything about professional wrestling in my honest opinion.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Anyone who thinks the average Joe can book week to week and put on a show that has retained its audience for 1+ year despite a major downturn and shift in the entire industry, knows absolutely nothing about pro wrestling and business, exposes himself everyday as a jealous basement dweller that is mad because some rich kid got to live his dream of having a wrestling promotion on national TV, and that rich kid is living his dream not the way the miserable dork would have lived it, making the dork more mad, and the funniest part about who wins in the end, is that still this "rich kid playing" actually made bank in-spite of criticism from people with an agenda, and he what's more impressive he did it his own way, without compromising his views. Respect to TK brother, drink the tears of haters.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

The Definition of Technician said:


> Anyone who thinks the average Joe can book week to week and put on a show that has retained its audience for 1+ year despite a major downturn and shift in the entire industry, knows absolutely nothing about pro wrestling and business, exposes himself everyday as a jealous basement dweller that is mad because some rich kid got to live his dream of having a wrestling promotion on national TV, and that rich kid is living his dream not the way the miserable dork would have lived it, making the dork more mad, and the funniest part about who wins in the end, is that still this "rich kid playing" actually made bank in-spite of criticism from people with an agenda, and he what's more impressive he did it his own way, without compromising his views. Respect to TK brother, drink the tears of haters.


What was Tony Khans experience in the industry before AEW? The guy is an average Joe in this particular industry..

Edit: Also, what the fuck is our agenda? Wanting better wrestling?


----------



## Swan-San (May 25, 2019)

The Definition of Technician said:


> Anyone who thinks the average Joe can book week to week and put on a show that has retained its audience for 1+ year despite a major downturn and shift in the entire industry, knows absolutely nothing about pro wrestling and business, exposes himself everyday as a jealous basement dweller that is mad because some rich kid got to live his dream of having a wrestling promotion on national TV, and that rich kid is living his dream not the way the miserable dork would have lived it, making the dork more mad, and the funniest part about who wins in the end, is that still this "rich kid playing" actually made bank in-spite of criticism from people with an agenda, and he what's more impressive he did it his own way, without compromising his views. Respect to TK brother, drink the tears of haters.


lol ridiculous post. You're self projecting, why would someone care that Khan is a rich kid living his dream, that didn't even come to mind until you mentioned it. It's impressive to you because you wouldn't do any better so your brain can't comprehend it.

Khan's only in this position because of his dad and contacts by being the son of a billionaire. If he wasn't his son he'd be on the same level as Brandi, gone to a good uni, and would have a high paying numbers based job. He's a dork wrestling fan that didn't stop watching wrestling no matter how bad it got because his taste is truly that awful, hence why the product is garbage.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Swan-San said:


> lol ridiculous post. You're self projecting, why would someone care that Khan is a rich kid living his dream, that didn't even come to mind until you mentioned it. It's impressive to you because you wouldn't do any better so your brain can't comprehend it.
> 
> Khan's only in this position because of his dad and contacts by being the son of a billionaire. If he wasn't his son he'd be on the same level as Brandi, gone to a good uni, and would have a high paying numbers based job. He's a dork wrestling fan that didn't stop watching wrestling no matter how bad it got because his taste is truly that awful, hence why the product is garbage.


And you missed the entire point.
There are a lot of people here, in this thread, who keep saying "If I were booking", "If I were Khan", am i really self-projecting here?
Nobody is denying he's where he's at because of his connections, same can be said about hundreds of billionaires including Vince 😂but TK's made those connections, got his funding, all he has to do is make a return on his investment in a set period of time, that's the business aspect of it which you all fail to comprehend for some reason.

You calling him a dork wrestling fan shows much more about you 😂 If he wasn't a wrestling fan, there'd be no AEW. if you're basically admitting that's what you want, you're proving my point, so go hope on the hate train of AEW/TK-bangwaggon.


----------



## Swan-San (May 25, 2019)

The Definition of Technician said:


> And you missed the entire point.
> There are a lot of people here, in this thread, who keep saying "If I were booking", "If I were Khan", am i really self-projecting here?
> Nobody is denying he's where he's at because of his connections, same can be said about hundreds of billionaires including Vince 😂but TK's made those connections, got his funding, all he has to do is make a return on his investment in a set period of time, that's the business aspect of it which you all fail to comprehend for some reason.
> 
> You calling him a dork wrestling fan shows much more about you 😂 If he wasn't a wrestling fan, there'd be no AEW. if you're basically admitting that's what you want, you're proving my point, so go hope on the hate train of AEW/TK-bangwaggon.


No you're missing the entire point. No one would be mentioning Khan only being there because of his dad if he were any good. So you mentioning how people bring it up because they're jelous is nonsensical. 

lmao, so you calling people dorks in your original posts doesn't say anything about you, but me saying it about Khan says something about me?

I think people like you just need to accept that some people think what they like is garbage, and try not to feel insecure about it.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Swan-San said:


> No you're missing the entire point. No one would be mentioning Khan only being there because of his dad if he were any good. So you mentioning how people bring it up because they're jelous is nonsensical.
> 
> lmao, so you calling people dorks in your original posts doesn't say anything about you, but me saying it about Khan says something about me?
> 
> I think people like you just need to accept that some people think what they like is garbage, and try not to feel insecure about it.


I don't think much about it, but I'm still going to call people by what they are lol.
You're just clearly one of those typical people who will complain "the product is trash" "tony khan is not good" and think it's an undisputed fact, when you don't even have a context defined and don't understand someone business' decisions and motives, and yet, you're still following their every move checking on them wanting them to fail. Pathetic.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The Definition of Technician said:


> Anyone who thinks the average Joe can book week to week and put on a show that has retained its audience for 1+ year despite a major downturn and shift in the entire industry, knows absolutely nothing about pro wrestling and business, exposes himself everyday as a jealous basement dweller that is mad because some rich kid got to live his dream of having a wrestling promotion on national TV, and that rich kid is living his dream not the way the miserable dork would have lived it, making the dork more mad, and the funniest part about who wins in the end, is that still this "rich kid playing" actually made bank in-spite of criticism from people with an agenda, and he what's more impressive he did it his own way, without compromising his views. Respect to TK brother, drink the tears of haters.


Ooooh this oozes with passive aggressiveness. Tag me next time.

1. Average Joe probably couldn't book week to week TV but Khan can't either. Dropped angles every week, allegedly blowing massive amounts of money, story lines that he does stick with often range from very average to poor/bad. Average Joe might be intelligent enough to spend their big budget on hiring someone who can write compelling week to week TV though (Cult has said he'd do this before)

2. He hasn't retained his audience he's lost 50% of it. 1.4 million down to between 700-750k a week and looking like it'll continue to drop as shows remain average to poor.

3. We've gone through the jealousy stuff, I wouldn't want to run a big major wrestling company because I have a similar paranoia to Paul Heyman where I like to have my fingers in everything. I'm also generally not a jealous person but you clearly are, lol.

4. He "made bank"? How so? He's clearly been losing money hence why he's rushed a limited audience back into his arena. He admittedly got a half decent TV deal but 45 million dollars isn't that much when your roster is 25-30 million in value and you're dropping huge money on Matt Hardy segments.

5. Cult brings up a good point, what is our agenda exactly? We don't like Tony because his booking is bad. Is our agenda good shows and booking? 

6. He did it his own way without compromising his views? Yeah cool maybe if he was producing an awesome product this would be a positive but he does things badly and doesn't know what he's doing. That's like someone being sad that their house is built badly and you saying "Welp, he did it his own way without compromising his views so we have to give him credit for that". No we don't, the house is still shitty...


----------



## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

Chip you blanking me, thanks man. Thought we was good obviously not.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Carter84 said:


> Chip you blanking me, thanks man. Thought we was good obviously not.


We good bruh, where have I blanked you? I don't read my notifications anymore because I was getting too many (I have over 2000 unviewed notifications)


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Ooooh this oozes with passive aggressiveness. Tag me next time.
> 
> 1. Average Joe probably couldn't book week to week TV but Khan can't either. Dropped angles every week, allegedly blowing massive amounts of money, story lines that he does stick with often range from very average to poor/bad. Average Joe might be intelligent enough to spend their big budget on hiring someone who can write compelling week to week TV though (Cult has said he'd do this before)
> 
> ...


 I'd probably be banned for Banter 

1- Well Khan clearly *can* because *he is. 😂 *Next
2- We've already debated TV debuts and I destroyed you and Woods pathetic argument on the subject. All real comparables have had significant dropes from their debut, and almost (90%+) all TV shows, even the most succesfull/mainstreams ones, including live shows, have the same trend of dropping big in viewership. Any person with a functioning brain would be looking at their first 2-3month average and compare with now, looking at a single predicted peak-data is a skewed way of looking at it. Go find me all those TV shows that started in 2015-now timeframe where there is significant increase after the premier episode. I've already showed a list of many successful mainstream ones who are still considered successful despite this significant premier drop. But, you do not want to be reasonable. 
3- 😂😂 1K+ post in a month shitting on a product says otherwise.
4- So he's losing money? you're his accountant? If he's capable of spending money on Matt's stuff, don't you think he's making money? or he is borrowing from his dad again? you don't know, I don't know, but my assumpions are more reasonnable than yours. 
5- Not playing this game.
6- "built badly" again, subjective, context, and not a fact. A better analogy is that It's also a house in progress that being built infront of your eyes on national TV and you're just shitting on the construction because it's not the same methodes of 30 years ago.


----------



## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

@Chip Chipperson when u said AEW fans like everything and I responded I don't in the PAC thread, we good. I hate the way they book " Big guy " wrestlers in AEW, it is so annoying, it's or there's Big they need to be heels, which is a shite way of booking. Now Hobbs has turned heel ( prime example ) Is this to replace Penta as he turned face this week, God only knows . 

What a shit ending to a good show this week.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The Definition of Technician said:


> I'd probably be banned for Banter
> 
> 1- Well Khan clearly *can* because *he is. 😂 *Next
> 2- We've already debated TV debuts and I destroyed you and Woods pathetic argument on the subject. All real comparables have had significant dropes from their debut, and almost (90%+) all TV shows, even the most succesfull/mainstreams ones, including live shows, have the same trend of dropping big in viewership. Any person with a functioning brain would be looking at their first 2-3month average and compare with now, looking at a single predicted peak-data is a skewed way of looking at it. Go find me all those TV shows that started in 2015-now timeframe where there is significant increase after the premier episode. I've already showed a list of many successful mainstream ones who are still considered successful despite this significant premier drop. But, you do not want to be reasonable.
> ...


1. He's doing it poorly. Again, I can go and build a house poorly it doesn't mean I deserve to be praised for doing my job poorly.

2. And I've already showed you (Or someone else) a list of many successful shows that very quickly grew. 

3. You make posts about me all the time does that mean you're jealous of me? You can discuss something in a negative way without being jealous of them.

4. I'm suggesting if he's making money it's not a lot of money. I don't think he'd operate at a loss unless he's a true money mark but I could see him spending most of that 45 million annually. 

5. Lol. The "You have a good point but I don't want to admit it" argument

6. Did I ever say it was a fact? You don't build your house on national TV you build it first then show it off on TV. I'm shitting on the methods because they're not good.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Chip Chipperson said:


> 1. He's doing it poorly. Again, I can go and build a house poorly it doesn't mean I deserve to be praised for doing my job poorly.
> 
> 2. And I've already showed you (Or someone else) a list of many successful shows that very quickly grew.
> 
> ...



1- No. He's clearly not.
2- No you didn't. You went back to 90s show, I specifically asked for 2015-2020 timeframe. You failed to deliver.
3- No? Where are these posts I make? Stop lying dork.
4- It's called investing in growth then.
5- No, the take this to rants route.
6- You still don't get it, if he wants to build it on national TV, and he can do it, and he is doing it, it's not up to you decide if it's "right" or "wrong" or "good" or "bad". It's clearly good enough with great potential, and TV wise they're doing well, and business wise they're doing well, so by all metrics, you are wrong or you don't understand TK's vision is.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

The Definition of Technician said:


> 1- No. He's clearly not.
> 2- No you didn't. You went back to 90s show, I specifically asked for 2015-2020 timeframe. You failed to deliver.
> 3- No? Where are these posts I make? Stop lying dork.
> 4- It's called investing in growth then.
> ...


5. So you can make incorrect assumptions but won't discuss them? Pretty weak if you ask me, but we all know how you work.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The Definition of Technician said:


> 1- No. He's clearly not.
> 2- No you didn't. You went back to 90s show, I specifically asked for 2015-2020 timeframe. You failed to deliver.
> 3- No? Where are these posts I make? Stop lying dork.
> 4- It's called investing in growth then.
> ...


1. Okay, so if Khan is this great booker and does really well writing week to week television how come AEW has either 1. Lost 50% of it's audience orrrr 2. Not been able to see significant growth? And why do I not like it? I love great booking.

2. I used Two And A Half Men as an example which is a 2000's show. You've moved the goalposts to 2015-2020 shows because you were proved wrong.

3. You don't regularly quote me, discuss me and have this lame little feud with me? You don't recall coming back with a rant full of abuse for the people who were amused by you getting banned? If we are jealous of Tony because we talk badly about him then you are of the people you talk badly about.

4. Investing in growth that isn't occurring despite how hard TK tries. Allegedly he's doing a good job though...

5. Cop out

6. That makes no sense. Why would you put an unfinished product on the air where people learn on the job? Seems reckless and stupid.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Chip Chipperson said:


> 1. Okay, so if Khan is this great booker and does really well writing week to week television how come AEW has either 1. Lost 50% of it's audience orrrr 2. Not been able to see significant growth? And why do I not like it? I love great booking.
> 
> 2. I used Two And A Half Men as an example which is a 2000's show. You've moved the goalposts to 2015-2020 shows because you were proved wrong.
> 
> ...


this is funny, "regularly" quote you? says the low-life who has 1K+ posts in the section of Wrestling Company he hates. You're spreading you're BS everywhere, and I haven't even been that active in the past month or so, or please do show me. And I don't go around saying "If I were Chip" Like you do when you say "If I where Khan" every week like an obsessed basement dweller.

lol imaging inserting failed arguments into each-other.

I just realized why we don't get along, I'm sorry, but this will be our last discussion, I just finally realized the level of intelligence of people i'm talking to here.
If you think a show from the early 2000s is comparable to the 2015-now timeframe with the rise of more alternatives and streaming services, you live in the past, way past, we aren't even on the same planet, so no wonder you are an absolutist nitpicker with no awareness or has the ability to adapt to the world around him. Bye Felicia!


----------



## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

prosperwithdeen said:


> Jesus Christ my guy you’re really dedicated to painting Tony and AEW in the worse possible light. All you do is talk shit lol. Give it a rest for 2 seconds. You come off as extremely jealous of the guy.
> 
> No he’s not the worst. If we’re talking last 10-15 years then I would say Vince is FAR worse. All time I would say Russo.
> 
> I don’t understand how you can look at this guy who has given us free wrestling entertainment and some of the best content I’ve seen in a long time and hate him so passionately. The guy is not Satan. He’s a fan who wants to provide for other fans.



Vince is worst promoter of all time when he has been making the most money for a company in wrestling history for the past 10 years? Mmmmm. ok.


----------



## kamaro011 (Jan 3, 2012)

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Vince is worst promoter of all time when he has been making the most money for a company in wrestling history for the past 10 years? Mmmmm. ok.


It seems his mistaking product quality to promoter. let's check promoter definition according merriam webster



> one that promotes especially *: *one who assumes the financial responsibilities of a sporting event (such as a boxing match) including contracting with the principals, renting the site, and collecting gate receipts


None of those above implying about the product quality.


----------



## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

The Definition of Technician said:


> He doesn't owe you a damn thing 😂 😂 😂
> Ridiculous.
> 
> Go risk your own money going up against RAW, spending tens if not hundred of millions more on stars and business.
> ...


It's not ridiculous. The idea of this forum and topic is to debate every possible scenario. I like to analyse and evaluate what could have worked better, done better, been more profitable in the long term. More importantly, been more fun for wrestling fans. I think it's fair to say none of us have that kind of money laying around lol. 

I did say in the post we don't know what budgeting restrictions were in place or whether TNT were dictating the time slot. 

All I know is that WWE are ruthless, so it's unsurprising they put NXT head to head. This quasi war has been more beneficial for WWE's third brand than it has for AEW. Raw in the summer of 2019 was the pits. Sometimes it's better to take the fight to the big dog than get dragged into a minor battle. But you've got to spend to accumulate.


----------



## Mercian (Jun 26, 2020)

Twenty two pages and the answer is still YES


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

DaSlacker said:


> It's not ridiculous. *The idea of this forum and topic is to debate every possible scenario.* I* like to analyse and evaluate what could have worked better, done better, been more profitable in the long term.* More importantly, been more fun for wrestling fans. I think it's fair to say none of us have that kind of money laying around lol.
> 
> I did say in the post we don't know what budgeting restrictions were in place or whether TNT were dictating the time slot.
> 
> All I know is that WWE are ruthless, so it's unsurprising they put NXT head to head. This quasi war has been more beneficial for WWE's third brand than it has for AEW. Raw in the summer of 2019 was the pits. Sometimes it's better to take the fight to the big dog than get dragged into a minor battle. But you've got to spend to accumulate.


Of course, but then that's just fantasy booking and not really realistic, budget constraints are a real thing and the risks they were taking were uncertain. 

And WWE can be ruthless all they want, it's a good move by them, a very good strategic move. The war isn't beneficial to the winner, because they're winning and the war is only making their total support show less.
But what you're saying doesnt matter much, even if it gave NXT a bigger platform and was beneficial to NXT, and even if NXT's existance is taking some viewers away from AEW, the quasi-war is a win for AEW and TNT, instead of the guaranteed loss they'd have been given vs RAW.


----------



## .christopher. (Jan 14, 2014)

Danielallen1410 said:


> Basically, chips asked a question, but if you don’t give the answer he wants he’ll argue with you, then he’ll moan he’s allowed an opinion etc.....I’ve been of here a month or so, guess what the same bloke is talking the same shit, I’ve no idea how you find the energy.


You mean he debates differing opinions? The whole reason forums exist?

Heaven forbid!


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The Definition of Technician said:


> this is funny, "regularly" quote you? says the low-life who has 1K+ posts in the section of Wrestling Company he hates. You're spreading you're BS everywhere, and I haven't even been that active in the past month or so, or please do show me. And I don't go around saying "If I were Chip" Like you do when you say "If I where Khan" every week like an obsessed basement dweller.


Yeah, you're such a great and mature poster.

This is you from 3 weeks ago instead we're all low lives. Probably best we don't talk anymore 



The Definition of Technician said:


> Listen Bitch
> 
> You are the most irrelevant member of the stooges, you’re nothing but a parrot, a wanabe, and the stupidest member of this forum.
> I've only needed one discussion with you motherfucker to realize you have no idea what you’re talking about. And you little fucking bitch, I am the one who always attacks the points, and then when you deflect, you bet your ass I’m gona call you a fucking moron.
> ...





.christopher. said:


> You mean he debates differing opinions? The whole reason forums exist?
> 
> Heaven forbid!


Many just want an echo chamber on here. You would know that being here as regularly as you are


----------



## Ashey Larry (Sep 25, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Hello friends
> 
> I just listened to the Jim Cornette review of Full Gear. During the Hardy Vs Guevara review they read an email from a fan who knew someone who helped produce the "match"
> 
> ...





Chip Chipperson said:


> Hello friends
> 
> I just listened to the Jim Cornette review of Full Gear. During the Hardy Vs Guevara review they read an email from a fan who knew someone who helped produce the "match"
> 
> ...


this is silly. Also think Cornette ran his business into ground by flying everyone on private jets....not that I care ....but since you brought up going bankrupt


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

Mercian said:


> Twenty two pages and the answer is still YES


The vote poll says otherwise (aka 67% of the people who participated on here are correct).


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Vince is worst promoter of all time when he has been making the most money for a company in wrestling history for the past 10 years? Mmmmm. ok.


My guy read the thread first. You’re asking the same questions others have asked me and I have already explained why I said what I said.


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

.christopher. said:


> You mean he debates differing opinions? The whole reason forums exist?
> 
> Heaven forbid!


He shoves his toxic opinions down everyone’s throats (hence the absurd question of this thread topic to begin with) on the AEW section in his 1000+ weekly posts on here, so pardon other folks for rightfully calling him out on this forum; especially when he’s almost always projecting his anger/frustrations out on an entertaining product that he obviously dislikes.


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yet AEW couldn't do a million plus when Tyson turned up...


It says more about AEW then Mike Tyson. Most boxing fans don't give a shit about 2020 pro wrestling. Mike Tyson even at the age of 50 is far more relevant then AEW.

For example, towards the end of last year Tyson Fury showed up to RAW and didn't increase their ratings at all, but his fight vs Wilder got something like 850k ppv buys few months later. And that ppv was 70 bucks if I remember correctly.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Ashey Larry said:


> this is silly. Also think Cornette ran his business into ground by flying everyone on private jets....not that I care ....but since you brought up going bankrupt


I've literally never heard anyone mention Cornette flying people around on private jets. You are talking about Jim Crockett who did that.



DammitChrist said:


> He shoves his toxic opinions down everyone’s throats (hence the absurd question of this thread topic to begin with) on the AEW section in his 1000+ weekly posts on here, so pardon other folks for rightfully calling him out on this forum; especially when he’s almost always projecting his anger/frustrations out on an entertaining product that he obviously dislikes.


Yes, because you don't shove your opinions down anyone's throat at all, lol. Aren't you the bloke that said Orange Cassidy was an 8/10 on the mic and had a hissy fit when people disagreed? Jog on.


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yes, because you don't shove your opinions down anyone's throat at all, lol. Aren't you the bloke that said Orange Cassidy was an 8/10 on the mic and had a hissy fit when people disagreed? Jog on.


Oh, don't give me that nonsense 

The rating might have been somewhat high, but a generous 8/10 is still more accurate than the handful (and a half) of folks who irrationally gave Orange Cassidy 0s, 1s, or 2s on the mic (due to their hatred for him) when he can talk well enough from the limited lines he's had so far.

Anyway, get back to me whenever I start a ridiculous thread in the future where I ask everyone if Tony Khan is the greatest mainstream promoter of all time (which I won't btw since that's hyperbole). Then we can talk about me "shoving my opinions down everyone's throats."


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

The Definition of Technician said:


> He doesn't owe you a damn thing 😂 😂 😂
> Ridiculous.
> 
> Go risk your own money going up against RAW, spending tens if not hundred of millions more on stars and business.
> ...


It’s not his money, it’s his dad’s money.



sideon said:


> These posts are exactly why none of you would make it as an owner of a wrestling company. You're mad that AEW didn't immediately go up against RAW, when you can pinpoint that being the very reason for TNA's downfall. You also want AEW to sign all the misused WWE talent, and by signing all of them you've essentially created a WWE lite which is what you don't really want. The problem is that AEW boxed themselves in by making sure to constantly take shots at the WWE and swear that they would be nothing like them. Now they've tried the indie angle and that hasn't increased viewership, so now they're going the sports entertainment route which will yield the same results. They should've just carved their own little niche and built themselves up over time like TNA did from 02-09.


I specifically said I don’t think they should go against Raw. Nice job. AEW being WWE Lite is why I am dissatisfied with it. Signing top stars away from the WWE would make it more like WCW. Their “niche



The Definition of Technician said:


> no not "fact".
> if despite him doing it "free for all", then even if he "borrowed this money from his dad", it doesn't matter. It's a start-up when eventually you need to make a return on your investment, if the guy is doing his thing and will still be breaking even in 2-5 years and that's despite what you call free for all (Allow EVPs to hire their friends and do whatever), that's good for him. He gets to stick to his values, he gets to keep his word to the EVPs who inspired him to take the initial risk to do AEW, and he's still making money.
> 
> And you're here telling me "I could do better", well we'll never know, you don't know the circumstances of everything that happened, and for all the success AEW has had, all the naysayers can say to counter it
> "but it should be better" "I can do better" "Tony is wasting his money", nothing but opinions from biased absolutist nitpickers who fail to see the bigger the picture.


Seeing the bigger picture is why I cringed at the early moves AEW made. Turns out I was rifhf



The Definition of Technician said:


> Anyone who thinks the average Joe can book week to week and put on a show that has retained its audience for 1+ year despite a major downturn and shift in the entire industry, knows absolutely nothing about pro wrestling and business, exposes himself everyday as a jealous basement dweller that is mad because some rich kid got to live his dream of having a wrestling promotion on national TV, and that rich kid is living his dream not the way the miserable dork would have lived it, making the dork more mad, and the funniest part about who wins in the end, is that still this "rich kid playing" actually made bank in-spite of criticism from people with an agenda, and he what's more impressive he did it his own way, without compromising his views. Respect to TK brother, drink the tears of haters.


A large reason the business has trended downwards is because of its quality (or lack thereof).



DammitChrist said:


> He shoves his toxic opinions down everyone’s throats (hence the absurd question of this thread topic to begin with) on the AEW section in his 1000+ weekly posts on here, so pardon other folks for rightfully calling him out on this forum; especially when he’s almost always projecting his anger/frustrations out on an entertaining product that he obviously dislikes.


His opinions aren’t toxic and he posts them. On a message board. That’s what you’re supposed to do.



Klitschko said:


> It says more about AEW then Mike Tyson. Most boxing fans don't give a shit about 2020 pro wrestling. Mike Tyson even at the age of 50 is far more relevant then AEW.
> 
> For example, towards the end of last year Tyson Fury showed up to RAW and didn't increase their ratings at all, but his fight vs Wilder got something like 850k ppv buys few months later. And that ppv was 70 bucks if I remember correctly.


Man, AEW would get giddy at the thought of 85k


DammitChrist said:


> Oh, don't give me that nonsense
> 
> The rating might have been somewhat high, but a generous 8/10 is still more accurate than the handful (and a half) of folks who irrationally gave Orange Cassidy 0s, 1s, or 2s on the mic (due to their hatred for him) when he can talk well enough from the limited lines he's had so far.
> 
> Anyway, get back to me whenever I start a ridiculous thread in the future where I ask everyone if Tony Khan is the greatest mainstream promoter of all time (which I won't btw since that's hyperbole). Then we can talk about me "shoving my opinions down everyone's throats."


Orange Cassidy’s only promos have been AWFUL. Point to one promo that you think is a 6 or higher.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Hello friends
> 
> I just listened to the Jim Cornette review of Full Gear. During the Hardy Vs Guevara review they read an email from a fan who knew someone who helped produce the "match"
> 
> ...


yes


----------



## thorn123 (Oct 10, 2019)

I like AEW ergo Khan must be quite good


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

33.3% say yes, I'll take that.


----------



## phatbob426 (Feb 6, 2010)

[deleted] wrong thread


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> 33.3% say yes, I'll take that.


Yep, sometimes you need to lower your own standards whenever the majority of folks (especially from the vote poll) have already proven you wrong with your question here.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

DammitChrist said:


> Yep, sometimes you need to lower your own standards whenever the majority of folks (especially from the vote poll) have already proven you wrong with your question here.


The majority of the forum said I'm a better booker than your mate Tony. Let's not go taking poll results as gospel matey


----------



## Mercian (Jun 26, 2020)

I'd be worried when a radio show is more appealing than a TV show


----------



## VIP86 (Oct 10, 2019)

first, don't start a thread like this by saying "I just listened to the Jim Cornette"
Jim Cornette has some valid points but he is biased because Tony didn't make him the booker, this is just a simple fact

to answer your question
NO
this honor goes to vince mcmahon and his plantation i mean company

i disagree with a lot of what AEW is doing
mainly the wannabe PRO wrestlers i've listed before
and their politically correct and SJW direction
also their snowflake PC/SJW Fanboys

that being said, Tony Khan is the best currently
based on the simple fact that he listens to the fans and doesn't treat them like retards
also it doesn't hurt that he treats the talent with respect and not like slaves
my only wish is that the EVPs doesn't take advantage of him too much


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

VIP86 said:


> first, don't start a thread like this by saying "I just listened to the Jim Cornette"
> Jim Cornette has some valid points but he is biased because Tony didn't make him the booker, this is just a simple fact
> 
> to answer your question
> ...


Stopped reading as soon as you said Vince McMahon is the worst promoter of all time. That's the worst opinion on the topic possible.


----------



## kamaro011 (Jan 3, 2012)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Stopped reading as soon as you said Vince McMahon is the worst promoter of all time. That's the worst opinion on the topic possible.


"I don't like current WWE product, hence Vince is the worst promoter of all time"

Smh, they need to lookup and search a definition for the word of "Promoter" before stating that opinion honestly.

Being a great promoter doesn't mean the product they bring is great. Vince is the greatest promoter of all time while simultaneusly the product he bring is bad is not me is giving Vince a compliment its just a fact.


----------



## VIP86 (Oct 10, 2019)

i don't measure the success of a promoter by just the amount of money he made
for me it's a total package
morals and respect are more important than the physical success
slave traders and drug cartels made more money than vince, does this make them successful?
plus vince mcmahon is the reason why pro wrestling now suck donkey balls


----------



## kamaro011 (Jan 3, 2012)

VIP86 said:


> i don't measure the success of a promoter by just the amount of money he made
> for me it's a total package
> morals and respect are more important than the physical success
> slave traders and drug cartels made more money than vince, does this make them successful?
> plus vince mcmahon is the reason why pro wrestling now suck donkey balls


Did the very thought to give Vince a "positive" light makes you ill and sick to you stomach, eventhough the statement of Vince being a great promoter is just a fact and not wrong.

It's your opinion man, but don't try to distort the word "promoter" to suit your naratives.


----------



## .christopher. (Jan 14, 2014)

VIP86 said:


> first, don't start a thread like this by saying "I just listened to the Jim Cornette"
> Jim Cornette has some valid points but he is biased because Tony didn't make him the booker, this is just a simple fact
> 
> to answer your question
> ...


1. Cornette didn't want a job. That's why he told Tony outright what he thought of Tony's vision.

2. Vince McMahon is not a bad promoter. His product sucks balls, and has done for many, many years, but that's besides the point.

3. Lol at you thinking Tony doesn't treat the fans like idiots. This is the guy who pushes a guy who wrestles with hands in his pockets, has people feuding over video game consoles and their mums car, has the main heel faction break out into musicals. Nevermind Matt Hardy's shit and that American hanegg stadium match. He has a low opinion of his audience if he thinks he can put this shit on tv. Then you have the amateurish, inconsistent writing that they put no effort into because Tony thinks his fans are dumb enough to like anything regardless of if it makes sense, and, unfortunately, he's right.


----------



## thorn123 (Oct 10, 2019)

Vince may be the most successful, but he is not the best IMO. He was lucky (courageous but lucky). Gagne could be the billionaire now if he put (left) the belt on Hogan. He was lucky again that Montreal inadvertently created the attitude era.


----------



## BlueEyedDevil (Dec 26, 2019)

Ian Rotten is a better wrestling promoter than Tony Khan.


----------



## VIP86 (Oct 10, 2019)

at the end of the day this is my opinion and i will not change it
but no body is obliged to agree with me (people can have defrent opinions)
althugh it's interesting how people defend vince mcmahon like he is the god of wrestling
in my eyes vince mcmahon is the promoter who killed PRO wrestling the last 30 years

as for Jim Cornette, i don't hate him at all and i listen to all his podcasts
but this doesn't change the fact that he probably felt offended when Tony khan told him indirectly that he will not be the booker
plus his past experiences working with the young bucks and Kenny Omega further the feeling of him being biased a lot of times
ps: personally i would have preferred Jim Cornette to be the booker anyway

finally, Tony doesn't treat the fans like idiots (like vince mcmahon did all his life)
but he has a big flaw that i can't deny and i don't like
he likes to pander to the PC/SJW fanboys a little too much
plus he made a mistake when he appointed active wrestlers as EVPs


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Chip Chipperson said:


> 33.3% say yes, I'll take that.


happy with a low number as long as it supports your opinion?

on brand


----------



## Leviticus (May 1, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Vince Russo isn't a promoter. Vince McMahon is the most successful promoter of all time.


And why does financial success automatically make him the best promoter?

his unethical treatment of his talent to me automatically makes him one of the worst people in the history of wrestling


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

DaveRA said:


> Vince may be the most successful, but he is not the best IMO. He was lucky (courageous but lucky). Gagne could be the billionaire now if he put (left) the belt on Hogan. He was lucky again that Montreal inadvertently created the attitude era.


Gagne would never in a million years have been able to promote Hogan as well as Vince. Gagne would never have completely built company around Hogan like Vince did or use such an agressive national strategy and then international. Anyway it was Austin not Hogan that made Vince a billionaire.

Attitude era was happening without Montreal. Tyson played much bigger role kickstarting it than Montreal. Austin had already stunned Vince before Montreal too on a huge raw in MSG.


Leviticus said:


> And why does financial success automatically make him the best promoter?
> 
> his unethical treatment of his talent to me automatically makes him one of the worst people in the history of wrestling


Because success in this business is based on money drawn, it's why Hogan, Austin, Rock are put on such a high pedestal.

Vince is greatest promoter ever because he has generated most money as well as producing Wrestlemania, Rumble, Summerslam, Raw, Smackdown, Network and seen Hogan, Warrior, Undertaker, Austin, Bret, Shawn, HHH, Rock, Cena, Batista, Orton, Reigns become synonymous with WWE and Vince as a promoter. Even when Lesnar was drawing a million+ ppv buys a show and UFC HW champion most were referring to him as a "WWE guy"

Explain unethical treatment and why it's worse than dozens of promoters down the decades. Explain why Vince is worse than Dixie Carter e.g that let Jeff Hardy wrestle drunk or putting Daffney in clear physical danger when already informed of the issue. What about those promoters that let Scott Hall and Jake Roberts go out drunk in front of live fans?

Is Hogan the worst wrestler ever in your opinion because of his backstage politics?


----------



## thorn123 (Oct 10, 2019)

validreasoning said:


> Gagne would never in a million years have been able to promote Hogan as well as Vince. Gagne would never have completely built company around Hogan like Vince did or use such an agressive national strategy and then international. Anyway it was Austin not Hogan that made Vince a billionaire.
> 
> Attitude era was happening without Montreal. Tyson played much bigger role kickstarting it than Montreal. Austin had already stunned Vince before Montreal too on a huge raw in MSG.
> 
> ...


most experts ... and I claim not to be one ... including the fan favourite cornette ... agree Vince completely stumbled into the attitude era as a fall out from montreal. Vince actually tried to be a Face afterwards, until public opinion was heard. Vince is lucky


----------



## kamaro011 (Jan 3, 2012)

DaveRA said:


> most experts ... and I claim not to be one ... including the fan favourite cornette ... agree Vince completely stumbled into the attitude era as a fall out from montreal. Vince actually tried to be a Face afterwards, until public opinion was heard. Vince is lucky


Yeah sure, for someone "Lucky" like him is sure get several ones that most important that propelled him to the top. Has nothing to do at all with his skill as promoter.


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

DaveRA said:


> most experts ... and I claim not to be one ... including the fan favourite cornette ... agree Vince completely stumbled into the attitude era as a fall out from montreal. Vince actually tried to be a Face afterwards, until public opinion was heard. Vince is lucky


Business was on a clear upturn before Montreal so no. And heel Vince didn't play a role at Wrestlemania 14 which saw gigantic rise in ppv buys compared to previous year.

Vince is lucky like world series of poker champion is lucky..

You are ignoring the amount of work Vince and wwe had done to get Austin hot from KOTR 96 onwards..that's not luck
Ignoring that seeds for Vince vs Austin were set 2-3 months before Montreal..that's not luck
Ignoring that Kane vs Taker program had been put in place over 7 months before Montreal..that's not luck
Ignoring that DX debuted 3 months before Montreal..that's not luck
Ignoring that Rock turned heel and joined nation 3 months before Montreal..that's not luck

All those things were already in place. Montreal happens with no Kane vs Taker or no hot Austin or no DX or no getting hot Rock and what do you have...


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

DammitChrist said:


> Yep, sometimes you need to lower your own standards whenever the majority of folks (especially from the vote poll) have already proven you wrong with your question here.


The hypocrisy in this stance is amazing. Firstly, Chip (when he was babyface) won a poll here against Khan suggesting his show was better. Want to swing around a poll of popular opinion? Deal with that.

Secondly, 33.3% of people in an AEW forum saying that he is isn’t slim-pickings. That people would CONSIDER it, let alone decide on it is pretty telling. Imagine if Trump polled people at a rally about how he was doing as President and a third of people thought he was the worst ever.

I haven’t voted, because I wanted to hear discussion. I’ve heard Herd and Abrams. I wouldn’t call him the worst. Technically. But that is how you are giving him a pass. He’s not technically the WORST. Think about what that actually says



VIP86 said:


> first, don't start a thread like this by saying "I just listened to the Jim Cornette"
> Jim Cornette has some valid points but he is biased because Tony didn't make him the booker, this is just a simple fact
> 
> to answer your question
> ...


Cornette was offered a job. He was offered another job as recently as a month ago. Let’s not call your first poijt



BlueEyedDevil said:


> Ian Rotten is a better wrestling promoter than Tony Khan.


Controversial take. Your spice plays well here.


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

The Wood said:


> The hypocrisy in this stance is amazing. Firstly, Chip (when he was babyface) won a poll here against Khan suggesting his show was better. Want to swing around a poll of popular opinion? Deal with that.
> 
> Secondly, 33.3% of people in an AEW forum saying that he is isn’t slim-pickings. That people would CONSIDER it, let alone decide on it is pretty telling. Imagine if Trump polled people at a rally about how he was doing as President and a third of people thought he was the worst ever.
> 
> I haven’t voted, because I wanted to hear discussion. I’ve heard Herd and Abrams. I wouldn’t call him the worst. Technically. But that is how you are giving him a pass. He’s not technically the WORST. Think about what that actually says


Nope, there’s no “hypocrisy” here at all from me. It’s pretty obvious at this point that it’s widely agreed upon now that Tony Khan isn’t the “worst” wrestling promoter at all (or even a “bad” one to begin with).

Hell, even YOU admit that he isn’t the “worst” wrestling promoter. This is coming from one of the most pessimistic/cynical individuals on the AEW section too, so that says A LOT on how absurd the OP’s question really is to begin with.


----------



## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

Somebody being a babyface/heel on a goddamn forum is the cringiest shit I've ever heard, jesus christ.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

DammitChrist said:


> Nope, there’s no “hypocrisy” here at all from me. It’s pretty obvious at this point that it’s widely agreed upon now that Tony Khan isn’t the “worst” wrestling promoter at all (or even a “bad” one to begin with).
> 
> Hell, even YOU admit that he isn’t the “worst” wrestling promoter. This is coming from one of the most pessimistic/cynical individuals on the AEW section too, so that says A LOT on how absurd the OP’s question really is to begin with.


The only three names people brought up were Herd, Abrams (debatable) and Dixie. At best you're arguing he's bottom 5 and the worst in the world today in major promotion.

I wouldn't be bragging about a third or so thinking he's worst ever.



The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> Somebody being a babyface/heel on a goddamn forum is the cringiest shit I've ever heard, jesus christ.


He doesn't mean literally but it's kind of how things went naturally. I was beloved then started speaking truth more and more which upset people. A lot of people started hating me upon the revelation of me promoting Indy shows also because I give minor credibility to "the haters" actually being in the business.

Run the same poll today I probably lose but only out of spite rather than lack of talent or ability.


----------



## HangmanPage (Aug 11, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Don't understand your question.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You just spew ignorant bs lol I couldn't care less about what inbred Cornette has to say about anything. Hes a creepy chubby chasing fool. Theres a reason the mf can't get a job anywhere. His ideas are outdated and he needs to learn to speak only when spoken to.


----------



## KingofKings1524 (Aug 27, 2007)

Chip Chipperson said:


> The only three names people brought up were Herd, Abrams (debatable) and Dixie. At best you're arguing he's bottom 5 and the worst in the world today in major promotion.
> 
> I wouldn't be bragging about a third or so thinking he's worst ever.
> 
> ...


Step down from your cross oh great one.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

HangmanPage said:


> You just spew ignorant bs lol I couldn't care less about what inbred Cornette has to say about anything. Hes a creepy chubby chasing fool. Theres a reason the mf can't get a job anywhere. His ideas are outdated and he needs to learn to speak only when spoken to.


Jericho offered him a job like four weeks ago. All he had to do was shut his mouth.


----------



## Brodus Clay (Jan 6, 2012)

HangmanPage said:


> You just spew ignorant bs lol I couldn't care less about what inbred Cornette has to say about anything. Hes a creepy chubby chasing fool. Theres a reason the mf can't get a job anywhere. His ideas are outdated and he needs to learn to speak only when spoken to.


His job it's being a YouTube Ranter xDDD


----------



## midgetlover69 (Nov 27, 2016)

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> Somebody being a babyface/heel on a goddamn forum is the cringiest shit I've ever heard, jesus christ.


youre a heel


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

DammitChrist said:


> Nope, there’s no “hypocrisy” here at all from me. It’s pretty obvious at this point that it’s widely agreed upon now that Tony Khan isn’t the “worst” wrestling promoter at all (or even a “bad” one to begin with).
> 
> Hell, even YOU admit that he isn’t the “worst” wrestling promoter. This is coming from one of the most pessimistic/cynical individuals on the AEW section too, so that says A LOT on how absurd the OP’s question really is to begin with.


Hang on, where does this poll say that he isn’t bad? It just asks if he is the worst. My entire post was about how even the people voting “No,” aren’t saying that he’s good. He scrapes by on technicalities for a lot. And he’s still not exactly running away with this thing even then.

I said that I’m not sure he’s the worst. Why are you rephrasing that at me like it’s news to me? That doesn’t mean he’s not REALLY fucking bad.

Also, I’m not pessimistic or cynical, by the way. That’s just an easy brush to tar me with because you don’t like what I’m saying. My criticisms are more than earnes



HangmanPage said:


> You just spew ignorant bs lol I couldn't care less about what inbred Cornette has to say about anything. Hes a creepy chubby chasing fool. Theres a reason the mf can't get a job anywhere. His ideas are outdated and he needs to learn to speak only when spoken to.


Learn to speak only when spoken to? Lol, what? So when his co-host talks to him on his podcast? Where does your entitlement come from?

Let’s play a game: Instead of just saying that he’s old and his ideas are outdated, how about you explain _why_ his ideas are outdated. This will be fun!


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The Wood said:


> Hang on, where does this poll say that he isn’t bad? It just asks if he is the worst. My entire post was about how even the people voting “No,” aren’t saying that he’s good. He scrapes by on technicalities for a lot. And he’s still not exactly running away with this thing even then.
> 
> I said that I’m not sure he’s the worst. Why are you rephrasing that at me like it’s news to me? That doesn’t mean he’s not REALLY fucking bad.
> 
> ...


At absolute best TK is bottom five and that's if you count Abrams (Debatable), Herd and Dixie (I personally think Dixie was better)


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Yeah, that sounds about right. I don’t even know if I’d put Abrams below Khan. I don’t think he counts and I almost think they’re apples and oranges.

Obviously his UWF was ridiculous, but is it any more offensive than Jericho and MJF singing? That just has a better budget. And Tony Khan has pissed away way more money.

I dunno, I think as far as comparable folks running things goes, it’s probably only Herd.


----------



## ECFuckinW (Jun 29, 2020)

The Wood said:


> Hang on, where does this poll say that he isn’t bad? It just asks if he is the worst. My entire post was about how even the people voting “No,” aren’t saying that he’s good. He scrapes by on technicalities for a lot. And he’s still not exactly running away with this thing even then.
> 
> I said that I’m not sure he’s the worst. Why are you rephrasing that at me like it’s news to me? That doesn’t mean he’s not REALLY fucking bad.
> 
> ...


It's really not the voters fault the OP decided to not think through his thread.Then he moves the goalposts during the thread,instead of taking the L as it's been pointed out the answer to the poll is pretty clear.

He instead deflects to whatever BS to take away from the fact his poll clearly has answered his initial question.He is looking foolish trying to deflect man.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

ECFuckinW said:


> It's really not the voters fault the OP decided to not think through his thread.Then he moves the goalposts during the thread,instead of taking the L as it's been pointed out the answer to the poll is pretty clear.
> 
> He instead deflects to whatever BS to take away from the fact his poll clearly has answered his initial question.He is looking foolish trying to deflect man.


What? I've openly said okay he's not the worst but still one of.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

ECFuckinW said:


> It's really not the voters fault the OP decided to not think through his thread.Then he moves the goalposts during the thread,instead of taking the L as it's been pointed out the answer to the poll is pretty clear.
> 
> He instead deflects to whatever BS to take away from the fact his poll clearly has answered his initial question.He is looking foolish trying to deflect man.


I don’t know if you know this, but polls aren’t magic. TK wasn’t being held over a flame waiting for the legally binding verdict. It’s a pro-wrestling discussion. He’s getting a lot of “no” from people who either can’t name a single person worse or can maybe get three deep.


----------



## famicommander (Jan 17, 2010)

At least he didn't get smoked in a twitter war by Matt Hardy's wife like the guy currently promoting Impact.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

famicommander said:


> At least he didn't get smoked in a twitter war by Matt Hardy's wife like the guy currently promoting Impact.


He did get smoked by Randy Orton publicly.


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

The Wood said:


> I don’t know if you know this, but polls aren’t magic. TK wasn’t being held over a flame waiting for the legally binding verdict. It’s a pro-wrestling discussion. He’s getting a lot of “no” from people who either can’t name a single person worse or can maybe get three deep.


There’s approximately a hundred folks on here who strongly disagree with the ridiculous question that Tony Khan is somehow the “worst” wrestling promoter of all time. The gap on the vote poll is hilariously WIDE too.

Just admit that you and your side are wrong (again) here. These results can’t possibly go any worse here for you, especially since I bet that there are thousands of wrestling fans who don’t even believe that Tony is a “bad”promoter at all (let alone being the “worst” one of them all).


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

DammitChrist said:


> There’s approximately a hundred folks on here who strongly disagree with the ridiculous question that Tony Khan is somehow the “worst” wrestling promoter of all time. The gap on the vote poll is hilariously WIDE too.
> 
> Just admit that you and your side are wrong (again) here. These results can’t possibly go any worse here for you, especially since I bet that there are thousands of wrestling fans who don’t even believe that Tony is a “bad”promoter at all (let alone being the “worst” one of them all).


Almost 50 say he's the worst ever though. If I made this thread about an actual good booker or even a really average one it'd probably be under 10% no...

1/3rd think he's worst of all time. It's a loss but not a huge one.


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

If anyone thinks that Dixie is better then Khan then it clearly shows you have not seen much of TNA over the years. Don't even get me started on the whole GFW bullshit with her and Jeff Jarrett.

Speaking of TNA, whoever is the current promoter of Impact has got to be even worse then Dixie actually. They had Tessa beat Cage for the world title, an actual murder with a gun on the show, intergender matches with the women usually dominating the men, and fucking Rich Swann as their champion at their biggest show of the year. That's worse then anything Khan has ever done.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

DammitChrist said:


> There’s approximately a hundred folks on here who strongly disagree with the ridiculous question that Tony Khan is somehow the “worst” wrestling promoter of all time. The gap on the vote poll is hilariously WIDE too.
> 
> Just admit that you and your side are wrong (again) here. These results can’t possibly go any worse here for you, especially since I bet that there are thousands of wrestling fans who don’t even believe that Tony is a “bad”promoter at all (let alone being the “worst” one of them all).


I didn’t even vote, bub. I said that Herd and Abrams have to be good shouts. I don’t know how you keep missing this, but Khan is barely clearly the hurdle because even “cynical” folk like me can think of one or two worse. That’s hardly a “win.”


----------



## Leviticus (May 1, 2020)

validreasoning said:


> Gagne would never in a million years have been able to promote Hogan as well as Vince. Gagne would never have completely built company around Hogan like Vince did or use such an agressive national strategy and then international. Anyway it was Austin not Hogan that made Vince a billionaire.
> 
> Attitude era was happening without Montreal. Tyson played much bigger role kickstarting it than Montreal. Austin had already stunned Vince before Montreal too on a huge raw in MSG.
> 
> ...


Hmmmm where do I start...
1: Calling his wrestlers independent contractor despite the fact that his contracts require them to give a level of control to him that the IRS and the labor department considers to be employment and not independent contracting. He does this for a multiple of reasons he can screw his employees out of their rightful benefits such as healthcare and unemployment benefits and pensions. And he doesn't have to pay payroll taxes. 

2: taking no responsibility for the effect of concussions and other injuries on a wrestlers later in life, despite the fact that he created a environment where performers were pressured into working through injuries and not taking time off. 

now you have him telling wrestlers that they are not allowed to work outside WWE without permission even using their real names. he is claiming legal ownership over their likenesses and birth names and saying that even though their independent contractors he gets to dictate when and where they're allowed to work at all times.


----------



## 10gizzle (Oct 11, 2019)

The real joke is comparing TK to promoters of territorial wrestling promotions from literally 40+ years ago.

It's hilarious. 

He's a businessman. He's not building a "wrestling promotion". He's building a brand.


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

Klitschko said:


> If anyone thinks that Dixie is better then Khan then it clearly shows you have not seen much of TNA over the years. Don't even get me started on the whole GFW bullshit with her and Jeff Jarrett.
> 
> Speaking of TNA, whoever is the current promoter of Impact has got to be even worse then Dixie actually. They had Tessa beat Cage for the world title, an actual murder with a gun on the show, intergender matches with the women usually dominating the men, and fucking Rich Swann as their champion at their biggest show of the year. That's worse then anything Khan has ever done.


And Swoggle, dressed as AJ Styles, beat Ethan Page this week in 2 1/2 minutes (maybe Page is joining AEW after all). I watch IMPACT sometimes and it's not even close to AEW. It feels little more than an indie at this point. Very bland, boring characters. MLW's restart has been dull too, Fatu and Hammerstone need to move on soon. For me, AEW is the best weekly show at the moment.

Khan is not a top five nor a bottom five promoter at this stage. However, he has created a company that has had early success, survived the pandemic, posted profits (as of April at least), and is pleasing to a national TV company that is adding a second show.


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

Leviticus said:


> Hmmmm where do I start...
> 1: Calling his wrestlers independent contractor despite the fact that his contracts require them to give a level of control to him that the IRS and the labor department considers to be employment and not independent contracting. He does this for a multiple of reasons he can screw his employees out of their rightful benefits such as healthcare and unemployment benefits and pensions. And he doesn't have to pay payroll taxes.


Every promoter in pro wrestling and mma classify wrestlers/fighters as independent contractors so based on this Vince is no worse than anyone else..

Courts agree with Vince btw. Once you sign a contract you have no wiggle room Update: District Court Throws Out Wrestlers' Lawsuit Against WWE (Again) | Connecticut Employment Law Blog



> 2: taking no responsibility for the effect of concussions and other injuries on a wrestlers later in life, despite the fact that he created a environment where performers were pressured into working through injuries and not taking time off.


First up Vince didn't create pro wrestling. Wrestlers often worked nightly pre 1982.

Secondly WWE have one of the most strict concussion protocols in pro sports right now. They are also Chris Nowitzkis concussion foundations biggest benefactor past decade.



> now you have him telling wrestlers that they are not allowed to work outside WWE without permission even using their real names. he is claiming legal ownership over their likenesses and birth names and saying that even though their independent contractors he gets to dictate when and where they're allowed to work at all times.


Not new in pro wrestling. AEW have stopped Moxley working NJPW despite fact he has a contract with them Jox Moxley Banned From Wrestling On NJPW US Shows | WrestleTalk


10gizzle said:


> The real joke is comparing TK to promoters of territorial wrestling promotions from literally 40+ years ago.
> 
> It's hilarious.
> 
> He's a businessman. He's not building a "wrestling promotion". He's building a brand.


Pretty sure every promoter considered themselves businessman or woman.


----------



## kamaro011 (Jan 3, 2012)

validreasoning said:


> Every promoter in pro wrestling and mma classify wrestlers/fighters as independent contractors so based on this Vince is no worse than anyone else..
> 
> Courts agree with Vince btw. Once you sign a contract you have no wiggle room Update: District Court Throws Out Wrestlers' Lawsuit Against WWE (Again) | Connecticut Employment Law Blog
> 
> ...


The wrestler sure need to read their contract properly, any kind of contract before signing with the devil.

It's really hard to defend them if they got screwed but didn't read the contract beforehand to prevent loophole by the company to screw them over.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Klitschko said:


> If anyone thinks that Dixie is better then Khan then it clearly shows you have not seen much of TNA over the years. Don't even get me started on the whole GFW bullshit with her and Jeff Jarrett.
> 
> Speaking of TNA, whoever is the current promoter of Impact has got to be even worse then Dixie actually. They had Tessa beat Cage for the world title, an actual murder with a gun on the show, intergender matches with the women usually dominating the men, and fucking Rich Swann as their champion at their biggest show of the year. That's worse then anything Khan has ever done.



it shows you dont understand all the depth of fuck ups she did behind the scenes. I watched TNA hardcore for years and i was in the TNA section for years. She tried yes and tried many things but thats also the problem because they never stuck to anything and she did a lot of toxic shit behind the scenes.

So far when it comes to the structure of the business and how that aspect is ran Tony is miles a head of her. Or are we simply only talking about the stupid comments they make ? because at the end of the day who gives a shit about that. I care about how the structure of the company behind the scenes is being done and that is what matters not what the world of twitter has to say.


TNA never actually figured out how to properly run its structure from so many aspects. Hell even production was always random 

When you get kicked off a network for talking shit about the people that gave you millions says enough.


----------



## ECFuckinW (Jun 29, 2020)

The Wood said:


> I don’t know if you know this, but polls aren’t magic. TK wasn’t being held over a flame waiting for the legally binding verdict. It’s a pro-wrestling discussion. He’s getting a lot of “no” from people who either can’t name a single person worse or can maybe get three deep.


Again does that pertain to the initial question?

It's a simple poll asking if TK is the worst,all this extra BS was only brought up after his poll was definitively tilted to no.Its not our responsibility to meet the added stipulations just because hes trying to deflect from his poll blowing up in his face.

Instead of just saying "well I guess most of you disagree with my ridiculous poll", he's out here trying to grasp on to anything that deflects from his failure. Like i said it's not out fault the OP decided to move the goalposts.He is looking very very foolish.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> 33.3% say yes, I'll take that.


And cling to it like you won.Moving the goalposts and clinging to a win you never got......trump you must be.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

I can’t believe how many people lean on a poll that has a third of an AEW board saying that Tony Khan is the worst mainstream promoter in wrestling history, with people clarifying that he might be #2 or #3 as some sort of reason to exalt the man. Wow.

“Is McDonald’s the worst food of all-time? One in three people say yes. Two-thirds say second worst.” FUCK YEAH, MACCAS! Eat shit, person trying to have a discussion!


----------



## The Main Man (Nov 18, 2020)

Of course he is not the worse ever - what idiot started this thread?


----------



## ECFuckinW (Jun 29, 2020)

The Wood said:


> I can’t believe how many people lean on a poll that has a third of an AEW board saying that Tony Khan is the worst mainstream promoter in wrestling history, with people clarifying that he might be #2 or #3 as some sort of reason to exalt the man. Wow.
> 
> “Is McDonald’s the worst food of all-time? One in three people say yes. Two-thirds say second worst.” FUCK YEAH, MACCAS! Eat shit, person trying to have a discussion!


Can't believe you Aussies clinging to a thread you clearly were on the wrong side of.Whats really funny is how once the thread didnt go your way,you try moving the goalposts to no avail.

The longer you drag out taking the L the more foolish you guys look.Glad most of you detractors are confined to one stinking island.


----------



## Londonlaw (Sep 16, 2009)

I can’t recall if I’ve commented at all in this thread (I probably have but we’re somehow 25 pages deep, so I won’t be going over the whole topic).

In my opinion (no more or less valid than anyone, possibly beside Chip who is actually in the business operationally, level and scale notwithstanding) Tony Khan is not the worst promoter ever. But the 1st Floor is also not the bottom of the building only because the ground floor is below it.

Khan’s financial clout and connections have likely played a part in the head start AEW got compared to others, and there is a degree of initial marketing and branding that brought an existing and disaffected fan base along with them for the ride. And by and large they have stayed. Not all, but a decent amount. And that’s where a reputable or outstanding promoter excels. They don’t simply do enough to just keep their existing audience. They work to keep and grow it. Because if you stay still, you’re falling behind someone else.

Dusty Rhodes did it, Vince McMahon did it, yes even Eric Bischoff did it from 1996-1998/9. And others much further back than that.

I’m making this point, because in my view, there is a danger that the polls are being interpreted as some kind of affirmation that he’s the 2nd coming of Paul Boesch. He’s definitely not and the sound of thunder you’re hearing outside your windows are Paul Boesch, Sam Muschnik, Eddie Graham and Leroy McGuirk laughing at the suggestion from above.

But, there is still time (at least 4 more years) for him to get himself and his house in order. Let’s remember, AEW is less than 2 years old. Comparatively, Tony Khan is akin to Eric Bischoff in 1996 when things fell into place and the organisation was the hot topic in wrestling. For a variety of reasons, WCW failed to grow more than it did, and we all know what happened.

AEW is currently in the position that they are relying on the TV show(s) to be relevant, and reportedly, Turner are content with the ratings. But a time will come, possibly under this new boss they have, where they will want to see growth and a return on their investment. 

And when that comes, do we believe Tony Khan has it in him to rise to that challenge?

Right now, I have my doubts. Case in point, less than 2 years in and even with the ever expanding roster, there is not a single match that I am dying or desperate to see. Not one. That might change and that would be a triumph of promoting and good booking.

I was desperate to see Sting vs Hogan back in 1997. At the end of Survivor Series 1998, I was itching to see Stone Cold vs The Rock, and had to wait 5 months to get it. Again, good booking and promoting.

So again, I don’t think Tony Khan is THE worst promoter ever (and I’d say the poll results are probably agreeable) but I’d put him closer to the bottom than the top. How far he grows AEW and its fan base over the next couple of years (especially when the touring model is reinstated) will determine how far up or down the list he goes.


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

The Wood said:


> I can’t believe how many people lean on a poll that has a third of an AEW board saying that Tony Khan is the worst mainstream promoter in wrestling history, with people clarifying that he might be #2 or #3 as some sort of reason to exalt the man. Wow.
> 
> “Is McDonald’s the worst food of all-time? One in three people say yes. Two-thirds say second worst.” FUCK YEAH, MACCAS! Eat shit, person trying to have a discussion!


Dude, just face the facts. Your side lost here.

Tony Khan definitely isn't the "worst" wrestling promoter of all time, and the scary gap (for you here) on the vote poll demonstrates how ridiculous the OP's question really is. You don't need to freak out too much over this hilarious setback.


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Londonlaw said:


> I can’t recall if I’ve commented at all in this thread (I probably have but we’re somehow 25 pages deep, so I won’t be going over the whole topic).
> 
> In my opinion (no more or less valid than anyone, possibly beside Chip who is actually in the business operationally, level and scale notwithstanding) Tony Khan is not the worst promoter ever. But the 1st Floor is also not the bottom of the building only because the ground floor is below it.
> 
> ...


Old school promoters pretty much had license to print money with territories that had local commission run out competitors, sweetheart deals with local TV & buildings. Once Vince came along they all fall in quick succession. In fact in 1993 the only one left att was Jarrett who Vince gave a job.
Tk has gone against wwe from launch of aew & has won every week. That very fact gives tk edge over those guys.


----------



## kamaro011 (Jan 3, 2012)

Pippen94 said:


> Old school promoters pretty much had license to print money with territories that had local commission run out competitors, sweetheart deals with local TV & buildings. Once Vince came along they all fall in quick succession. In fact in 1993 the only one left att was Jarrett who Vince gave a job.
> Tk has gone against wwe from launch of aew & has won every week. That very fact gives tk edge over those guys.


Huh, what do you mean since launch of AEW, they are winning against WWE every week?

If AEW win in term of quality it's subjective, not everyone have the same standard. If it was ratings, then AEW Dynamite isn't anywhere closer to Raw and Smackdown number right now. 

Yeah they beat NXT, but the number gaps isn't very impressive against WWE C-Show. So i don't know this talk about AEW winning every week, heck the NXT beat once in while so not true isn't it?


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

kamaro011 said:


> Huh, what do you mean since launch of AEW, they are winning against WWE every week?
> 
> If AEW win in term of quality it's subjective, not everyone have the same standard. If it was ratings, then AEW Dynamite isn't anywhere closer to Raw and Smackdown number right now.
> 
> Yeah they beat NXT, but the number gaps isn't very impressive against WWE C-Show. So i don't know this talk about AEW winning every week, heck the NXT beat once in while so not true isn't it?


Even if he means AEW beating NXT they haven't done it every week. I think NXT has won 6-7 times which isn't overly impressive but still not an AEW win every single week.

Also, NXT roster is probably only worth about 5 million bucks whilst AEW's is worth 20-30 million.


----------



## TheGreatBanana (Jul 7, 2012)

Time to chime in. Tony Khan is moron. He doesn’t understand the first principle of hiring talent is to use them to draw money. He hired people like Miro and has absolutely zero clue in how to present him and letting Miro do whatever shitty video game gimmick. He has zero clue in how to present his talent.

He greenlights garbage like the mimosa match, Jericho talking to a drone, Jericho and MJF variety show and so many horrible segments. He went against his initial promise of being a sports based promotion where obviously people were expecting a America version of NJPW, instead we get indy second rate wrestling show that’s worse than WWE.

AEW has done more horrible shit in its first year than TNA did in its lifetime.


----------



## go stros (Feb 16, 2020)

As someone who watches all 3 WWE, AEW, And Impact there is plenty good and bad in all of them. It all depends on how hard you look and what you're willing to see.

But these rose colored glasses
That I'm looking through
Show only the beauty
'Cause they hide all the truth


----------



## Leviticus (May 1, 2020)

validreasoning said:


> Every promoter in pro wrestling and mma classify wrestlers/fighters as independent contractors so based on this Vince is no worse than anyone else..
> 
> Courts agree with Vince btw. Once you sign a contract you have no wiggle room Update: District Court Throws Out Wrestlers' Lawsuit Against WWE (Again) | Connecticut Employment Law Blog
> 
> ...


Having a no compete clause for appearing in other major wrestling promotions is not what I'm talking about. That is normal. But you are defending Vince telling his wrestlers that they are not allowed to have any business deals at all without his permission even if they haven nothing to do with wrestling.

There is a major difference between not allowing them to work with direct competitors, and telling them they can;t do any type of work, or have endorsement deals, or even start their own businesses, without permission.


----------



## Brad Boyd (Jan 28, 2020)

Lmfao at this thread. Who gives a fuck if people think TK is the worst of all time? Look at all the nerdy spot monkeys he's hiring.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

ECFuckinW said:


> Can't believe you Aussies clinging to a thread you clearly were on the wrong side of.Whats really funny is how once the thread didnt go your way,you try moving the goalposts to no avail.
> 
> The longer you drag out taking the L the more foolish you guys look.Glad most of you detractors are confined to one stinking island.


Dude, it’s not my poll and I haven’t even voted in it yet. Most of us were having a conversation about whether or not he is technically the worst until a few of you came in here and started leaning on the poll as if it’s some form of magic authority. It’s not — there are plenty of stupid people who can vote. The smart folks are actually discussing whether or not he is or not, and usually only coming up with one or two names worse.

As Londonlaw said, being on the ground floor isn’t the bottom only because the basement exists. You’re making a real ass of yourself thinking there is a “side” here, and that “yours” won. The poll could very easily read “Is Tony K



DammitChrist said:


> Dude, just face the facts. Your side lost here.
> 
> Tony Khan definitely isn't the "worst" wrestling promoter of all time, and the scary gap (for you here) on the vote poll demonstrates how ridiculous the OP's question really is. You don't need to freak out too much over this hilarious setback.


I can’t even see the poll because I haven’t voted. What’s the scary gap? 30 people? There’s some massive paranoia and projection going on here. Rent free in your brain. 



Pippen94 said:


> Old school promoters pretty much had license to print money with territories that had local commission run out competitors, sweetheart deals with local TV & buildings. Once Vince came along they all fall in quick succession. In fact in 1993 the only one left att was Jarrett who Vince gave a job.
> Tk has gone against wwe from launch of aew & has won every week. That very fact gives tk edge over those guys.


Well, this is just a big, steaming pile of wrong.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The Wood said:


> Dude, it’s not my poll and I haven’t even voted in it yet. Most of us were having a conversation about whether or not he is technically the worst until a few of you came in here and started leaning on the poll as if it’s some form of magic authority. It’s not — there are plenty of stupid people who can vote. The smart folks are actually discussing whether or not he is or not, and usually only coming up with one or two names worse.
> 
> As Londonlaw said, being on the ground floor isn’t the bottom only because the basement exists. You’re making a real ass of yourself thinking there is a “side” here, and that “yours” won. The poll could very easily read “Is Tony K
> 
> ...


It's currently 67.3% saying no and 32.7% yes. That 32.7% would be much higher if we excluded Herd and Abrams.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Chip Chipperson said:


> It's currently 67.3% saying no and 32.7% yes. That 32.7% would be much higher if we excluded Herd and Abrams.


So about one third of people on an AEW forum think that TK is the WORST EVER? And that is being interpreted as a “win” how exactly?


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The Wood said:


> So about one third of people on an AEW forum think that TK is the WORST EVER? And that is being interpreted as a “win” how exactly?


I'm not sure, that's why I've been debating that something like 90% against 10% would be a killing but not the actual vote. Then it's argued that I'm moving goalposts.


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

The Wood said:


> I can’t even see the poll because I haven’t voted. What’s the scary gap? 30 people? There’s some massive paranoia and projection going on here. Rent free in your brain.


Try a whopping number of 50 people (along with the other thousands of wrestling fans who consistently tune in to watch Dynamite weekly who would disagree with the OP's laughable question about Tony Khan being "terrible.")

You might be forgiven by others if you (and your minority of voters) just admit that you're wrong here about him being the WOAT promoter


----------



## VIP86 (Oct 10, 2019)

wait wait wait, i thought this thread was about promoters working today ?
asking about long retired promoters that a lot of wrestling fans today weren't even born when they were in business is a silly thing to do.
that level of knowledge only wrestling historians will have


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

DammitChrist said:


> Try a whopping number of 50 people (along with the other thousands of wrestling fans who consistently tune in to watch Dynamite weekly who would disagree with the OP's laughable question about Tony Khan being "terrible.")
> 
> You might be forgiven by others if you (and your minority of voters) just admit that you're wrong here about him being the WOAT promoter


I didn’t say he was the worst promoter though. Project harder, Dam. 50 people isn’t all that many. I bet a lot of them think that he’s pretty bad lol. What about all the wrestling fans who DON’T watch Dynamite?


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

VIP86 said:


> wait wait wait, i thought this thread was about promoters working today ?
> asking about long retired promoters that a lot of wrestling fans today weren't even born when they were in business is a silly thing to do.
> that level of knowledge only wrestling historians will have


Okay?


----------



## Londonlaw (Sep 16, 2009)

VIP86 said:


> wait wait wait, i thought this thread was about promoters working today ?
> asking about long retired promoters that a lot of wrestling fans today weren't even born when they were in business is a silly thing to do.
> that level of knowledge only wrestling historians will have


You almost had me there for a second. I almost went to the front page to re-read the original posting then remembered all I had to do was read the title of the thread ☝

‘Is Tony Khan The Worst Mainstream Promoter Ever?’

‘Ever’ by implication, means factoring in historical figures. 

And I’m slightly perturbed by the suggestion that referencing wrestling history in this context is a negative. With all history, if it didn’t exist, we wouldn’t be where we are now. If we don’t know about it, we can’t learn from it and know what to avoid in order not to repeat it.

And I don’t think you need to be a wrestling historian to know what happened in the business before (insert date here)


----------



## VIP86 (Oct 10, 2019)

Londonlaw said:


> You almost had me there for a second. I almost went to the front page to re-read the original posting then remembered all I had to do was read the title of the thread ☝
> 
> ‘Is Tony Khan The Worst Mainstream Promoter Ever?’
> 
> ...



english is not my first language
at first my brain probably didn't process the word (Ever) the way the OP meant it in the title
i genuinely thought he was talking about recent times


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Londonlaw said:


> You almost had me there for a second. I almost went to the front page to re-read the original posting then remembered all I had to do was read the title of the thread ☝
> 
> ‘Is Tony Khan The Worst Mainstream Promoter Ever?’
> 
> ...


If you want to label somebody worst of all time you need to know history. Lots of younger ppl here just assume promoters or workers in the past were better but that's not always the case.
Someone commented that Ricky Starks promo ability was commonplace in past - if you know wrestling you'd know there are more good talkers today then there has ever been. Look at an old card & every heel was saddled with manager - wonder why??
Promoters are the same - as I've mentioned most regional territory had monopoly that'd make amazon blush. In 1984 Vince went national & most territories didn't see out 80's.


----------



## Londonlaw (Sep 16, 2009)

Pippen94 said:


> If you want to label somebody worst of all time you need to know history. Lots of younger ppl here just assume promoters or workers in the past were better but that's not always the case.
> Someone commented that Ricky Starks promo ability was commonplace in past - if you know wrestling you'd know there are more good talkers today then there has ever been. Look at an old card & every heel was saddled with manager - wonder why??
> Promoters are the same - as I've mentioned most regional territory had monopoly that'd make amazon blush. In 1984 Vince went national & most territories didn't see out 80's.


I let the other ‘factually incomplete’ statement you made replying to my previous comments go, but let me ask you, what tactics do you think Vince and WWF took when ‘going national’ that crumbled a lot of these territories? Other than just signing their top/important wrestlers?

There was going to their areas and big towns and competing against them directly, sometimes deliberately on the same night as the regional territory’s big show.

Not to mention buying out a lot of their TV slots (including Georgia Championship Wrestling’s slot in 1984 that tanked them and stifled Bill Watts own first National expansion plans) and in the case of Jim Crocket Promotions, counter-promoted their big money making shows.

And let’s not forget, the 1st Survivor Series was staged in direct competition to NWA/JCP’s Starrcade 1987 (as in on the exact same Thanksgiving Night) and ran the 1st ever Royal Rumble 1988 against Bunkhouse Stampede a few months later. That dented them in a way they never recovered from, helped them on their way out, Ted Turner purchased them and the rest is WCW history.

I know history is/was largely written by the winners, but goodness me, the narrative that the territories went bust because Vince went national needs to be examined in its proper context. Yes, Vince successfully ran in every territory he could, but it was also denting those markets, taking top talents from them, breaking building deals and signing building deals in other arenas, and tanking many of their TV deals and slots. He didn’t just put his product up against them and let viewers decide, he went after them and ruthlessly destroyed their infrastructure, because he wanted to be the only show in town.

Let’s loosely compare it to a number of local family run businesses in an area suddenly seeing a big/national/global business opens up on the street, employ your best staff and sell what you have but cheaper and with colourful packaging. Amazon for example.

So if ever you wonder why some of the old school guys (especially those like Ole Anderson who never signed with Vince) are bitter towards him, they remember what happened.

The territory system was fraught with strongholds, intimidation and ‘sweet deals’ that ran smaller competitors out of town, so I’m not here to defend it unconditionally, but there was an understanding between each of them, and they catered to their areas and knew what that local fanbase wanted. 

When the WWF’s brand came in, it ultimately didn’t cater to those whims, the circus being putting the same show everywhere it went. And some of those areas still haven’t had regular wrestling outside of TV since.

Over time, with subsequent generations, those local quirks and sensibilities disappeared. 

The mentality has changed.

And now, the idea of having a national/global product and ignoring a potentially vast and wider audience in favour of only serving a specific fanbase who have already bought in sounds a little silly and counterproductive.

Good thing we don’t have any promoters like that around today 🤔........


----------



## Londonlaw (Sep 16, 2009)

VIP86 said:


> english is not my first language
> at first my brain probably didn't process the word (Ever) the way the OP meant it in the title
> i genuinely thought he was talking about recent times


I do beg your pardon VIP86. I should have thought that English might not be your first language and chosen my own words with a bit more care.

And I’m not too big to admit that 🤣

Have a good day 😊


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Pippen94 said:


> If you want to label somebody worst of all time you need to know history. Lots of younger ppl here just assume promoters or workers in the past were better but that's not always the case.
> Someone commented that Ricky Starks promo ability was commonplace in past - if you know wrestling you'd know there are more good talkers today then there has ever been. Look at an old card & every heel was saddled with manager - wonder why??
> Promoters are the same - as I've mentioned most regional territory had monopoly that'd make amazon blush. In 1984 Vince went national & most territories didn't see out 80's.


This is another big steaming pile of wrong. Kids, don’t learn history from Pippen.

Yes, some promoters were aided by commissions preventing opposition running, but this isn’t the only obstacle territories had to face. They used to need to ACTUALLY DRAW PEOPLE. That’s something Tony Khan doesn’t actually need to do, because all the money comes from Daddy and TV.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

VIP86 said:


> wait wait wait, i thought this thread was about promoters working today ?
> asking about long retired promoters that a lot of wrestling fans today weren't even born when they were in business is a silly thing to do.
> that level of knowledge only wrestling historians will have


Nah, ever meaning historically also. I don't think you need to be a historian to know a little bit about the past. I don't class myself as a historian but love the old stuff.


----------



## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

Pippen94 said:


> if you know wrestling you'd know there are more good talkers today then there has ever been.


Jesus Christ. Where do you even come up with this shit?


----------



## kamaro011 (Jan 3, 2012)

La Parka said:


> Jesus Christ. Where do you even come up with this shit?


He's right in sense that there's probably more good talker right now, but very few of them is captivating enough to put themselver over with that.


----------



## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

kamaro011 said:


> He's right in sense that there's probably more good talker right now, but very few of them is captivating enough to put themselver over with that.


Road Dogg was hardly over and he was a much better promo than most of today’s wrestlers.

Taz wouldn’t even be on most people’s top 15 list of the 90s and now is one of the most consistent promos in the business.

You could say the same thing about MVP who durning his prime was overshadowed by a lot of guys on the mic. Now he’s better than almost everyone in the industry.

I hardly think these guys just developed that skill as old men, they just stand out because everyone else in the industry is struggling at this specific skill.


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Londonlaw said:


> I let the other ‘factually incomplete’ statement you made replying to my previous comments go, but let me ask you, what tactics do you think Vince and WWF took when ‘going national’ that crumbled a lot of these territories? Other than just signing their top/important wrestlers?
> 
> There was going to their areas and big towns and competing against them directly, sometimes deliberately on the same night as the regional territory’s big show.
> 
> ...


Where did I say Vince going national didn't include competitive tactics?? I thought it was implicit in phrase. 
Aew is no stranger to this; wwe countered dynamite, run nxt & evolve events to coincide with ppv's, Ricky Starks & Eddie Kingston confirmed wwe tried to sign them after their aew tryouts, nxt & wwe roster is full of performers the company has stockpiled just to keep them from aew, when aew ran special episode of dynamite over two weeks wwe put on great american bash also over two weeks. Now we have talk of second show for wwe Wednesday brand - wonder why?
In spite of this & the fact wwe being more recourced & a bigger brand today than ever aew kicks wwe's butt each week. That sheer fact means this topic should be dismissed out of hand.

Territory promoters are overrated for reasons I stated. Think about it there was probably 30 companies running across USA at one point so one was not unique in having success. Today the entertainment industry is far more competitive & to create national footprint when there's an established leader which has seemingly cornered market is a giant achievement


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Entertainment is not more competitive today than it used to be. Holy shit, this is insane.


----------



## Kentucky34 (Sep 30, 2015)

He is certainly one of them. 

How many other promoters have run away half their audience in a year? Not many.


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Ozell Gray said:


> They've struggled to get people interested and are now bringing in washed up celebrities like Mike Tyson and Shaquille O'Neal.


Hey guys so these posts are a few weeks old but few people in this thread were mentioning AEW and Khan bringing in a washed up Mike Tyson. Ozell, yours was just the first one I found so thats why I quoted it. Didn't mean anything bad by it, just wanted an example. 

That irritated me a little bit since I'm a big boxing fan. Well his fight just happened and the ppv buyrates are not out yet but so far it looks like they will be massive. Bigger then Mayweather/McGregor potentially. Bigger then all AEW ppvs combined. 

So this leads me to two things. Number 1. Told you so lol. Number 2.Not even Mike Tyson with all the interest around him could bring any extra fans for AEW. That sucks and is kind of sad.









Mike Tyson Vs Roy Jones Jr Breaks Pre-Fight Pay-Per-View Sales Record


“Numbers don’t lie,” says Tyson. “Haters are mad they can’t get numbers like this.”




www.google.com














411MANIA | Mike Tyson vs. Roy Jones Jr. Likely Drew ‘Incredible Numbers’ Based on 17 Million Google Searches


There's some new data available on the Mike Tyson vs. Roy Jones Jr. fight and how it likely translated to the event's performance on pay-per-view.




411mania.com


----------



## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

Klitschko said:


> Hey guys so these posts are a few weeks old but few people in this thread were mentioning AEW and Khan bringing in a washed up Mike Tyson. Ozell, yours was just the first one I found so thats why I quoted it. Didn't mean anything bad by it, just wanted an example.
> 
> That irritated me a little bit since I'm a big boxing fan. Well his fight just happened and the ppv buyrates are not out yet but so far it looks like they will be massive. Bigger then Mayweather/McGregor potentially. Bigger then all AEW ppvs combined.
> 
> ...


I don’t believe it drew more than Mayweather vs Mcgregor but I do know it did more than all of AEW’s PPVs and probably did 1 million buys. I’d shocked if it came anywhere close to the 4 million buys that Mayweather vs Mcgregor or Mayweather vs Pacquia (forgive me if I misspelled his name) did. Tyson couldn’t bring any fans to AEW because their marketing strategy is to go after the marks which isn’t working judging by the interest in terms of viewership. 

See if you’re going to bring in someone like Tyson he should 1. Be in his prime not 54 years old or whatever. 2. He needs to be in their with someone the viewers and audience cares about. That’s why him and Steve Austin worked so well in WWF because the viewers cared about Austin. Chris Jericho is 50 years old and won’t bring any extra fans with him to AEW so having a Tyson-Jericho segment didn’t mean anything and it tanked according to the quarterly ratings.

A lot of the guys in AEW will end up in WWE when their contracts are up especially with AEW showing no growth.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Klitschko said:


> Hey guys so these posts are a few weeks old but few people in this thread were mentioning AEW and Khan bringing in a washed up Mike Tyson. Ozell, yours was just the first one I found so thats why I quoted it. Didn't mean anything bad by it, just wanted an example.
> 
> That irritated me a little bit since I'm a big boxing fan. Well his fight just happened and the ppv buyrates are not out yet but so far it looks like they will be massive. Bigger then Mayweather/McGregor potentially. Bigger then all AEW ppvs combined.
> 
> ...


Yeah, here in Australia these exhibition fights draw quite well also. We have Mark Hunt of UFC fame fighting former rugby player turned boxer Paul Gallen in a legitimate stadium soon.

Boxing loves it's freak shows.


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah, here in Australia these exhibition fights draw quite well also. We have Mark Hunt of UFC fame fighting former rugby player turned boxer Paul Gallen in a legitimate stadium soon.
> 
> Boxing loves it's freak shows.


Dude seriously. The whole show was the definition of a freak show haha. The Tyson event had the Tyson main event, a bunch of rappers in between. Before the main event snoop dog and some other guy took up like an hour. Jake Paul who is apparently some famous you tuber was in the co main event knocking out some guy who was half his size. Snoop dog was singing, getting high and swearing live on tv. I think he was also one of the judges for the Tyson fight. On top of that I was watching this show in my language and the commentators from my country were apparently drunk as shit through most of this.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Klitschko said:


> Dude seriously. The whole show was the definition of a freak show haha. The Tyson event had the Tyson main event, a bunch of rappers in between. Before the main event snoop dog and some other guy took up like an hour. Jake Paul who is apparently some famous you tuber was in the co main event knocking out some guy who was half his size. Snoop dog was singing, getting high and swearing live on tv. I think he was also one of the judges for the Tyson fight. On top of that I was watching this show in my language and the commentators from my country were apparently drunk as shit through most of this.


Say what you will but wrestling could use something like this. "Must see" TV is what that sounds like.


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## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Say what you will but wrestling could use something like this. "Must see" TV is what that sounds like.


Thought this was a fun read. Granted they compared the event to WWE, but same thing could be said about AEW.









Tyson/Jones PPV out WWE-ed WWE


Saturday night’s card was as pro wrestling as it gets. And it looks like it was a big hit. Is there anything Vince McMahon or Tony Khan can learn from its apparent success?




www.google.com


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## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Klitschko said:


> Thought this was a fun read. Granted they compared the event to WWE, but same thing could be said about AEW.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Jake Paul knocked out former NBA player and 2 time slam dunk contest winner Nate Robinson.The prelims were legit AF good fights so was the bodou jack fight.

Overall the ppv was ok but definetly had cringey moments.Like having snoop dog on commentary......lmfao dude has no idea what's going on.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Was the fight good?


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## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

That article is silly. I watched fight but it was basically one off not something you want to watch weekly or monthly.

Pretty sure WWE could drum up interest if they had Austin booked to wrestle Hogan too but not something you want to see weekly


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## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Was the fight good?


Actually yeah, it was great. I think everyone was surprised by how good Tyson was. Obviously he's slower then he used to be 20 plus years ago, but there was still that spark in there. As a big boxing fan, to me it was just beautiful seeing him in there.


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## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Was the fight good?


It was mediocre tbh.Tyson definently looked good for his age(looked better then Roy jones who is younger but was active longer) but there were hardly any headshots at all.Tyson did a good job hyping up the fight saying he was going for the knockout but he never really tried .

It was obvious they agreed to limited headshots and not to kill each other. After the fight tyson said hed do it again with Roy on the same card,so its apparent my suspicions were correct.overall though it was entertaining enough for my 20 bucks lol.


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## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Well he's sure as hell not in my book. Don't know too many wrestling promoters so can't say who would be the worst.


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## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Klitschko said:


> Thought this was a fun read. Granted they compared the event to WWE, but same thing could be said about AEW.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


oh boy imagine JR or Michael Cole saying something like “the two guys in the ring look like my uncles fighting at the bbq” 

The internet would be up in smoke. Wrestling fans would be crying and complaining about burials.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Well he's sure as hell not in my book. Don't know too many wrestling promoters so can't say who would be the worst.


But he’s not the worst, so who’s worse?


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