# Jack Swagger Discussion **NO MORE THREADS**



## Rhasta (Jan 1, 2008)

After watching Smackdown, I was like...wow. Give him a manager or something, he sounds sooo awkward and cringe-worthy. I might even go as far as say that he's the worst mic talker at the moment.


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## Leechmaster (Jan 25, 2009)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

He's not as bad as Morrison when it comes to delivery, but yeah, he need A LOT of work on the mic.


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## Pissed Off (Mar 30, 2010)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

Obviously Morrison is better AS A HEEL. Morrison cut great promos on ECW and on the dirt-sheet. Swagger has that lisp which makes him very hard to take seriously. People talk about him becoming the next Angle, but Angle has mic skills, Swagger doesn't.

Giving him a manager would be great, but they have to find a credible one. No one will take him seriously as a main event heel if he has Hacksaw as his manager.


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## CURRYMAN! (Sep 13, 2009)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

Lol! People just don't get it. He isn't that bad on the mic. He has got great confidence and draws heat really well. Jericho got cheered in front of him ffs after being booed the whole show! People for some reason can't look past the lisp. It is as obvious as day that he plays up the the lisp as it's something hateable and something for the faces to pick at. I mean why do you think they changed his name from Hager to Swagger and why does he use so many words that make his lisp sound worse. He is not amazing but no way is he the worst mic worker.


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## SaveMeCM (Feb 7, 2010)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

No one is a worse speaker than Morrison. Not even Jeff Hardy.

Swagger I'm not much of a fan of, but I'm not ready to write him off just yet. He's green in the ring and on the mic, but I see potential in him. I hope he gets better.


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## PotterNo1 (Feb 5, 2007)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

Swagger has the potential to be great on the mic, just get him to do what he does best...act like he is the shit, like he is god's gift and be completely oblivious to the fact that everyone thinks he is a dork...erm, a bit like a young Kurt Angle in fact!
He doesn't have to be a big, scary, seriously violent guy to be a heel, his natural 'jock' arrogance comes across great even though he isn't the best talker...it just sort of radiates from him with that cocky grin and, well, 'swagger' that he exhudes. I think he has that rare tallent for just naturally getting people's backs up...while people like Drew McIntyre have to work their ass off to get heat, Swagger just seems to attract it naturally, you can't help but dislike the guy's character which is a very good thing for a heel!


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## SaveMeCM (Feb 7, 2010)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*



Pissed Off said:


> Giving him a manager would be great, but they have to find a credible one. No one will take him seriously as a main event heel if he has Hacksaw as his manager.


I say Mike Adamle. He'd do an awesome job. Or heel Jim Ross if he'd take the gig.


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## Pissed Off (Mar 30, 2010)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

Evil Jim Ross! I like your thinking!


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## JoseBxNYC (Feb 21, 2008)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

Nobody is worst than Morrison....


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## Pissed Off (Mar 30, 2010)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*



JoseBxNYC said:


> Nobody is worst than Morrison....


Are you sure about that? I have a feeling that Hornswoggle may be a bit worse on the microphone than John Morrison.


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## Dark Kent (Feb 18, 2008)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

He sucks...but as Jose said...NOBODY is worst than Morrison...


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## M.S.I.I. (Aug 30, 2007)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

The whole Kurt Angle nerd gimmick would work if he actually could talk and entertain, too bad he can't. The lisp is going to fuck his shit up.


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## CM12Punk (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

The lisp could get him heat...


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## GooseDaShiznit (Jan 29, 2010)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

Morrison sucks on the mic, Swagger is just steady on it.


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## MachoMuta (Nov 5, 2007)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

Swagger is better then Morrison.


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## NJ88 (Jan 27, 2009)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

Morrisons pretty good as a heel, not great as a face. Swagger though, I actually think he's pretty good most of the time.


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## PowPow (Jun 6, 2009)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

This mic skills obsession is just getting annoying now. It's no where near as integral to a wrestler as you guys continue to make out. Morrison is no where near as bad on the mic as suggested, it's mainly because his promos generally consist of him making shitty jokes, putting on an accent or talking in rhymes or something equally stupid that makes him come across cringe-worthy. When he has serious material, he does a good job. Swagger isn't the best on the mic, but he gets the job done and the lisp thing does wonders for his dork-like character.


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## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

Swagger is ok. But I couldnt stop LOLing through the entire speech 

I see immense potential in the man. I'm not gonna write him off because of the lisp and the goofiness. Because of two of the greatest of all time had problems like those. Angle was goofy as hell and lets not get started on Dusty Rhodes' lisp.


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## PowPow (Jun 6, 2009)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*



redeadening said:


> Swagger is ok. But I couldnt stop LOLing through the entire speech
> 
> I see immense potential in the man. *I'm not gonna write him off because of the lisp and the goofiness.* Because of two of the greatest of all time had problems like those. Angle was goofy as hell and lets not get started on Dusty Rhodes' lisp.


That's what makes his character so funny and that's what going to get him heat.

"I'm a 263 pound guy who's a beast of an amateur wrestler, I'm also the World Champion"
"Yeah, but you talk like a 5 year old"


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## kingbucket (Dec 15, 2009)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

Just finished watching smackdown.. He drew great heat, made the crowd pop for Jericho (still can't believe that), and a lot of people in the iwc hates him... Can't believe I'm going to say this, but it looks like the wwe did the right thing in making him champion when you look at everything. Swagger's mic work is pretty good actually. He has great delivery and displays a boat load of arrogance that is necessary for a cocky heel. Its seems that people pay full attention to his lisp and automatically assume he's terrible on the mic. The lisp will work wonders for swagger as a heel. Contrary to popular belief, the job of a heel is to put over the face! That lisp will be a giant target for faces to attack and help get them over. And the lisp will help to keep swagger hated simply because some people will never be able to get over it. Which isn't a bad thing since he's a heel. I think swagger has the potential to be a giant heel that is hated by "the wwe universe" and the iwc. Who knows, maybe this will lead to a face being put over that the wwe universe and iwc both like.. But that may be asking for too much lol


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## irishboy109 (Dec 15, 2008)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

I thought he did a great job on his "state of the world championship address". Just so cocky/arrogant that, though i do enjoy his character, i was actually tempted to boo him.


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## M.S.I.I. (Aug 30, 2007)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*



PowPow said:


> This mic skills obsession is just getting annoying now. It's no where near as integral to a wrestler as you guys continue to make out.


It actually is.


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## Thumpa (Mar 14, 2010)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*



PotterNo1 said:


> Swagger has the potential to be great on the mic, just get him to do what he does best...act like he is the shit, like he is god's gift and be completely oblivious to the fact that everyone thinks he is a dork...erm, a bit like a young Kurt Angle in fact!
> He doesn't have to be a big, scary, seriously violent guy to be a heel, his natural 'jock' arrogance comes across great even though he isn't the best talker...it just sort of radiates from him with that cocky grin and, well, 'swagger' that he exhudes. I think he has that rare tallent for just naturally getting people's backs up...while people like Drew McIntyre have to work their ass off to get heat, Swagger just seems to attract it naturally, you can't help but dislike the guy's character which is a very good thing for a heel!


this! Not all heels have to horrible/evil, the cockiness just works for him. I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do, give the kid a chance, he's only young!


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## Do Your Fcking Job (Feb 9, 2009)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*



M.S.I.I. said:


> It actually is.


No, it isnt, at all.

The IWC is completely fucking obsessed with 'mic skills', like somehow people on here are experts on it. Its annoying as hell.

Jeff Hardy couldnt talk to save his life but was over as hell. You dont need to have great mic skills to get over, its a great asset to have, but it isnt as vital as people on here make out.

Are Morrison and Swagger any good on the mic? No, they are both poor, but it hardly means that they will NEVER get over. Storylines, character progression, and charisma do that.

Fed up of hearing about 'mic skills'.


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## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

Did the way Swagger won the title remind anyone of how Diesel won it?


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## THQ (Apr 2, 2010)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

Swagger Fits well as a Heel and the lisp although pretty bad i think its something we might be able to look past. He isnt the kind of heel that is completely cynical and ill willed like Orton was But he can be the Naive Jock with a big mouth that everyone loves to hate. The guy has potential people and he will get better in the ring.

As for Morrison someone plz make hima heel or fix his Mike skills because he is ridiculously Corny and Fake as A face.


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## Jerichaholic4life (Jun 29, 2008)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*



redeadening said:


> Swagger is ok. But I couldnt stop LOLing through the entire speech
> 
> I see immense potential in the man. I'm not gonna write him off because of the lisp and the goofiness. Because of two of the greatest of all time had problems like those. Angle was goofy as hell and lets not get started on Dusty Rhodes' lisp.


The difference is, is that Angle was intentionally goofy whereas Swagger is just plain goofy.


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## PowPow (Jun 6, 2009)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*



M.S.I.I. said:


> It actually is.


No it's not at all...see Jeff Hardy and Bret Hart for instance


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## Juveholic (Jan 19, 2010)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*



JoseBxNYC said:


> Nobody is worst than Morrison....


Khali says hello.
and yeah Thwagger is indeed worse than Morrison.


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## The_Jiz (Jun 1, 2006)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

Swagger can work a mic. That's all you need to know. The lisp is irrelevant. 

Morrison is hopeless unless they do something quick.


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## gary year (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

Swagger's lisp is a selling point of his character. He's a cocky ''dork'' as Christian said, the guy is pretty charismatic and he knows how the be a jerk.

Swagger can talk, don't care how the lisp sounds or not, he can talk as Jiz said.

They need to let Morrison act cool and confident again or he's gonna keep not having good mic work.

You guys kinda overdo the whole mic work thing though....


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## ikarinokami (Aug 28, 2008)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*



PowPow said:


> No it's not at all...see Jeff Hardy and Bret Hart for instance


actually for the record. Bret Hart was pretty good on the mic when he was a face. He was terrible as a heel/singles wrestler because his heart was in it, and i remember him complaining about the things he had to say as a heel.

As for hardy, he is the benoit exception, people who can move people so much with just thier in ring work. neither morrison or swagger can do that, and yes Mic mork is probably the most important component of wrestler. it's not enough by itself, see santino, but it's cleary the most important aspect for any wrestler if the goal is to become a mega star.


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## Leechmaster (Jan 25, 2009)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*



PowPow said:


> No it's not at all...see Jeff Hardy and Bret Hart for instance


Is that why Shelton is a main eventer? And what about Morrison?

Hardy's unique character put him over, whereas Bret was simply one of the best in the ring. 

The WWE is all about entertainment and you're a fool if you don't think mic skills are important.


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## wrestlingmarx (Apr 2, 2010)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

Hooked on Phonics should sponsor Swagger it would be huge! lol


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## PotterNo1 (Feb 5, 2007)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

Exactly, I think Swagger's goofiness gives him a certain charm, almost a comic relief. It kind of makes you 'dislike' him but by no means do you 'hate' him. I think part of his character just feels real. There is always somebody like Swagger around, thinks hes shit hot and might have all the skill in the world but doesn't change the fact that he is totally deluded about his self importance. 

To sum up my reaction to Swagger, I basically think 'Wow this guy is awesome! But, haha what a loser!' and I think that is what we are supposed to think!


On another note, has anyone seen Swagger's twitter page? I do hope that he is actually posting in character and not as himself cos he has basically subscribed to just about every lingerie model and gentlemans mag going and keeps making cheesy passes at various underwear models haha, loser! Great character development tho lol


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## Don Draper (Mar 4, 2010)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

Swagger has huge potentil and I think he will do great in his 1st World Title reign. Even Austin said he has a lot of talent, and he's the greatest superstar ever, so I think I would listen to who he thinks is talented.

His mic skills aren't great but they aren't horrible either, I thiink he has good mic skills and charisma. The lisp will just help him get heat and give his opponents something to make fun of.


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## Carcass (Mar 12, 2010)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

Swagger is nowhere near that bad.


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## Alex (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

WHAT YOU TALKING ABOUT? MORRISON IS GOLDEN ON THE MIC.

Awaits Pyro's bashing. 

But seriously, Morrison is all round rubbish.

Swaggers got potential but is still fairly green, good too see Vince is trusting some of the younger guys.


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## Jerichaholic4life (Jun 29, 2008)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

I don't understand why people are thinking his character is meant to be a cocky dork when he was completely serious throughout the entire night.


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## P.Smith (Jan 24, 2010)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

You could be right because Morrison isn't half bad on the mic. Swagger isn't bad either so I have no idea what you're talking about. I was virtually in hysterics during his speech on Smackdown.


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## scottishman (Apr 27, 2009)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

Jack Swaggers a great heel if you think about it. I mean the guys like biff from back to the future recreated he's just so damn hateable


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## Chris22 (Jan 7, 2010)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

Whilst Morrison is my second fave wrestler i still think Swagger is a bit better than him on the mic. Also at last weeks RAW i noticed Swaggers lisp is alot more noticeable(sp?) live than on TV.


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## Ninja Rush (Dec 31, 2009)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

Swagger makes Morrison look like Punk.


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## Quasi Juice (Apr 3, 2006)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

He's fine on the mic, not spectacular, but he can get the job done, whereas everything that comes out of Morrison's mouth sounds forced.


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## PowPow (Jun 6, 2009)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*



Leechmaster said:


> Is that why Shelton is a main eventer? And what about Morrison?
> 
> Hardy's unique character put him over, whereas Bret was simply one of the best in the ring.
> 
> The WWE is all about entertainment and you're a fool if you don't think mic skills are important.


Shelton is not a main-eventer because he hasn't been over since 2005. Morrison is quite clearly going to win a world title at some point, they don't randomly have guys go over the then World Champ cleanly twice, enter the elimination chamber, win a boat-load of midcard titles and have 20 minute world title matches. They are waiting for him to get hot.

Your logic here is quite funny though. Miz has great mic skills, why is he not a world champion too?

I also notice that you contradict yourself. Bret was "simply one of the best in the ring" so do you not acknowledge that ring skills can compensate for a lack of mic skills? The WWE is entertainment, yes, but mic skills are only a bonus rather than completely neccesary. The entertainment comes through the interaction of characters, and mic skills do not make or break a character. Did Lesnar have to cut a promo to get his character across? No, because mannerisms, in ring performance and appearance say a lot more about a character than their promos. Which is why guys like Jeff, Rey, Goldberg, Benoit, Khali etc have become champions with barely any mic skills. Actions always speak louder than words, especially when in WWE, 90% of promos are some re-hashed, basic and generic.


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## RatedRudy (Dec 12, 2009)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

i don't get why the fuck swagger got all serious once he won the title, it is like he lost his smile, like wtf, they trying to make him all serious now and i'am suppose to buy that? pfft yeah right


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## Chris22 (Jan 7, 2010)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*



RatedRudy said:


> i don't get why the fuck swagger got all serious once he won the title, it is like he lost his smile, like wtf, they trying to make him all serious now and i'am suppose to buy that? pfft yeah right


Yeah, he should keep the big toothy smile, i liked it!


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## Gin (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

He isn't awful. The reading was intentional to get him heat.

The guy isn't a Jericho or Punk on the mic, but he is decent and learning as well. He has charisma. He is already more over than Morrison.

Leave the guy alone. He'll make a good champ. Go and hate on something else.


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## biscotti (Dec 12, 2004)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*



Do Your Fcking Job said:


> No, it isnt, at all.
> 
> The IWC is completely fucking obsessed with 'mic skills', like somehow people on here are experts on it. Its annoying as hell.
> 
> ...


Same here, WWE is wrestling ffs, not a presidential debate


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## CMIsaac (May 17, 2007)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

Sorry IWC, but once again most of you show that you don't know what you're talking about.

Swagger is good on the mic. The whole "reading off the book" thing was an intentional deadpan delivery, and it worked. He got GREAT heat for it. The more comfortable he gets, the more his cocky seriousness is going to get him boos. He's going to be WAY better on the mic than Shaemus, and he will approach the other main eventers in a few years.


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## Poppin' Fresh (Dec 14, 2008)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

I think Swagger gets a lot of unfair heat about his mic skills only due to his lisp. If you listen to the guy he still comes across quite natural, he manages it well. Tonight's promo with the reading was great in my opinion. It was intentionally set like that to get heat, and there was clearly a humorous side intended as he read it, as if he had actually won the title in an honest match. It's clearly another IWC over-reaction of somebody new being pushed into the main-event seeing, sometimes people on here are worse then the casuals when it comes to wanting the same people in the main event week after week. People should give the guy a chance, I actually hope he gets a lengthy reign to be honest.


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## the-gaffer (Oct 6, 2007)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

I think Swagger could be good on the stick given time, he tries to hard to pronounce everything at times, maybe thats down to his lisp, I'd agree with giving him a manager though, give him "The Living Legend" Larry Zbyszko


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## Main Event Mafia (Nov 30, 2008)

*Jack Swagger not fit to win the MITB?*

The bloke was outside the ring during the whole of the match and only came in a couple minutes before the win. This dude is a jobber, why allow him to win? He acts like a crazed ape and speaks like Sylvester the cat.


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## Batman (Nov 8, 2009)

*Re: Jack Swagger not fit to win the MITB?*

if your mad about this. your gonna be pissed when you watch smackdown.


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## NJ88 (Jan 27, 2009)

*Re: Jack Swagger not fit to win the MITB?*

Didn't everybody in the match spend the majority of it outside the ring?


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## Main Event Mafia (Nov 30, 2008)

*Re: Jack Swagger not fit to win the MITB?*



King Josh said:


> if your mad about this. your gonna be pissed when you watch smackdown.


dont tell me he cashed in and won? That is a farce. This swagger bloke is a nobody.


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## Batman (Nov 8, 2009)

*Re: Jack Swagger not fit to win the MITB?*



Main Event Mafia said:


> dont tell me he cashed in and won? That is a farce. This swagger bloke is a nobody.


i never said that.


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## Panzer (May 31, 2007)

*Swagger needs a submission finisher*

Since Swagger is now the WHC, he needs to live up to his All American American gimmick and develop a submission finisher to go along side his normal finisher.

Thoughts?


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## vincent k. mcmahon (Jul 6, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher SPOILERS!*

i've always said he needs one ... dude has the body of a gorilla with his massive long arms, give him a submission that uses the arms


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## Dark_Raiden (Feb 14, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher SPOILERS!*

He could use the stretch muffler, Brock Lock version or lifting version. He could us queen angelito stretch, Crossface, Abdominal Stretch, or even a Full Nelson or grounded Full nelson. The possibilities are endless.


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## MyDeerHunter (Jul 2, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher SPOILERS!*

Bear Hug?
Double Chickenwing?


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## Panzer (May 31, 2007)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher SPOILERS!*

I'm thinking maybe a Modified Armbar.

He can then yell "ARMBAR!" at Jericho.

A Grapevine Guillotine also sounds like his fancy.


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## rated_y2j11 (Aug 30, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher SPOILERS!*

This would just encourage people to say he is Kurt Angle V2


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## altasur (Sep 24, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher SPOILERS!*

huuummm... what bout the Crossface chickenwing??,... The Brock lock may lock good on him


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## Mojo Stark (Jul 1, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher SPOILERS!*

Crossface sounds about right to me.


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## Tomkin (Apr 2, 2008)

*Re: Jack Swagger not fit to win the MITB?*

Give the guy a chance and maybe you will see, he looked quite decent on smackdown after he became ??? ??? ????? ???????????? ????????


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## Panzer (May 31, 2007)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher SPOILERS!*



rated_y2j11 said:


> This would just encourage people to say he is Kurt Angle V2


Who cares? He's Jack Swagger and that's that. People said Angle was a Shamrock wannabe with the Ankle Lock and what not.

He's the WHC now and needs a submission finisher to look more credible. Especially since All Americans use submissions in their fighting. Makes perfect sense to me.


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## NoGimmicksNeeded (Oct 13, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher SPOILERS!*

As long as it's a parallel thing, like the Codebreaker/Walls. Replacing the Doctor Bomb would be madness, but a submission would suit him. Crossface chickenwing would be good. It isn't even outside the realms of possibility, submissions are making a comeback. Hell, I've seen 4 people use/go for a Sharpshooter already this year, and more Liontamer tap outs than I've seen in a long time.


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## altasur (Sep 24, 2009)

*Re: Jack Swagger not fit to win the MITB?*

yeah Swagger was kind of lost in raw and didn't do mutch so with the thing of the PPV i tough that the winner of this MITB will be the first to lost in cash a title, and Edge will win in the PPV, but i was wrong.. even so i thnik he is ok to be a champ but man it was too early for me


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## Panzer (May 31, 2007)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher SPOILERS!*



NoGimmicksNeeded said:


> As long as it's a parallel thing, like the Codebreaker/Walls. Replacing the Doctor Bomb would be madness, but a submission would suit him. Crossface chickenwing would be good. It isn't even outside the realms of possibility, submissions are making a comeback. Hell, I've seen 4 people use/go for a Sharpshooter already this year, and more Liontamer tap outs than I've seen in a long time.


The Bomb shouldn't go. Wrestlers need more than one way to defeat their opponents.


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## Mojo Stark (Jul 1, 2009)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*



Chris22 said:


> Yeah, he should keep the big toothy smile, i liked it!


Maybe if it didnt look so damn fake every time he did it.

He's alright on the mic, but i can't really agree that he's worse than Morrison because i haven't seen enough of him. And you can't judge him by the address on SmackDown because he was doing it badly and unemotionally on purpose.


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## NJ88 (Jan 27, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher SPOILERS!*

The Brock Lock would look good with Swagger doing it...of course you would have to change the name.


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## Old_Skool (Aug 2, 2007)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

He's nowhere near as bad as Morrison , I actually thought he (Swagger) was quite good especially seeing as he went the serious route and looks to have given up his gorilla impression.


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## ViolenceIsGolden (May 15, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher SPOILERS!*

Off the top of my head the Brock Lock or the crossface chickenwing like Bob Backlund used. Or else give him something you don't see a lot anymore like the Tequila Sunrise. I know one thing it would have to be a devastating looking hold and be booked on a high level like the Hells Gate was at first. Have him put it on a mid carder and break his back with it in kayfabe. The midcarder could be Matt Hardy and please not some jobber they never use anymore like Jimmy Wang Yang or Slam Master J. If Hardy is going to be fired or leaving or somebody like Rey Mysterio he could end his career with it. After that continue to build the move up so it isn't just a Walls of Jericho that can only beat a lowly jobber.


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## Tomkin (Apr 2, 2008)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher SPOILERS!*

ankle lock would suit him perfectly but it would be so similar to angle then with his gimmick and look.
Ive always said he need a submission finisher
some form of figure 4 leg lock?


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## eXcellence [EG] (Apr 13, 2007)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher SPOILERS!*

Give him the American Key Lock, and i agree he should keep the power bomb! i love that move


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## NJ88 (Jan 27, 2009)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

I thought the 'State of Championship adress' was hilarious. The way he was reading from the board in monotone only furthered his character, and got him somd good heat. I don't think he's bad at all...although I don't think Morrisons bad with the right material.


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## irishboy109 (Dec 15, 2008)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher SPOILERS!*

How about the surfboard that Danielson does? While it looks great when danielson does it, against larger people it comes across as off because danielson's so small. But Swagger's big enough to make it come across pretty well.

That or a gory special, because he could then convert that quickly to a slam.


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## baddass 6969 (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher SPOILERS!*

dudes tourture rack man, suits him great


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## Leechmaster (Jan 25, 2009)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*



PowPow said:


> Shelton is not a main-eventer because he hasn't been over since 2005. Morrison is quite clearly going to win a world title at some point, they don't randomly have guys go over the then World Champ cleanly twice, enter the elimination chamber, win a boat-load of midcard titles and have 20 minute world title matches. They are waiting for him to get hot.
> 
> Your logic here is quite funny though. Miz has great mic skills, why is he not a world champion too?
> 
> I also notice that you contradict yourself. Bret was "simply one of the best in the ring" so do you not acknowledge that ring skills can compensate for a lack of mic skills? The WWE is entertainment, yes, but mic skills are only a bonus rather than completely neccesary. The entertainment comes through the interaction of characters, and mic skills do not make or break a character. Did Lesnar have to cut a promo to get his character across? No, because mannerisms, in ring performance and appearance say a lot more about a character than their promos. Which is why guys like Jeff, Rey, Goldberg, Benoit, Khali etc have become champions with barely any mic skills. Actions always speak louder than words, especially when in WWE, 90% of promos are some re-hashed, basic and generic.


The Miz will win world titles soon enough. Unlike the other people the WWE is pushing, the Miz is actually getting built up as a credible contender BEFORE he wins the world title. 

And no, ring skills do not compensate for a lack of mic skills EXCEPT in special situations like Benoit and Hart. Hell, you mention Jeff, Goldberg, and Khali, but none of them were all that good in the ring (Khali is awful and Jeff is a spot monkey). Jeff won the title because he brought a unique character to the table (not a retread like Swagger), Goldberg won because WCW was content making him the next big monster, and Khali won the title because Vince wanted to tap into the Indian market. 

Lesnar didn't have to cut promos when he first started, but that's because he was a freak of nature. Even then, Lesnar's promos later on in his career were actually pretty good (IMO) compared to the trite people like Swagger, Morrison, and Legacy churn out. 

Again, you have to be a fool if you don't think mic skills are important.


----------



## Leechmaster (Jan 25, 2009)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*



biscotti said:


> Same here, WWE is wrestling ffs, not a presidential debate


This isn't solely a pro wrestling company, bud. It's an ENTERTAINMENT company, hence the title "World wrestling ENTERTAINMENT" label.

Look at companies that focus solely on wrestling (the indies)....those shows are held in tiny arenas and gyms.


----------



## beserker300 (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher SPOILERS!*

Ankle lock

Then he could really be Kurt Angle.


----------



## walkoff2 (Nov 24, 2009)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

I'll admit I'm as much of a Christian mark as the next guy, but I am already loving this Swagger title reign. For one, I like how he wasted no time in cashing this thing in. Secondly, I'm sure he wasn't going for this, but this turning from a smiling goofy big guy to the very serious all business mercenary is so unlike him its hilarious and thus far entertaining.


----------



## Vito Corleone (Mar 12, 2010)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

I've always thought his mic skills were decent. Its just his lisp people can't get past. He has the confidence and charisma which Morrison doesn't have.

Saying Morrison has the charisma of a door knob is an insult to the door knob.


----------



## Rated_RKO_2009 (Aug 7, 2009)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*



Pissed Off said:


> Are you sure about that? I have a feeling that Hornswoggle may be a bit worse on the microphone than John Morrison.


Long live Horny. 
lmaoooooooooo


----------



## SHIRLEY (Jun 9, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher SPOILERS!*

Guillotine Choke?

He should use Cattle Mutilation to piss off the IWC.


----------



## RetepAdam. (May 13, 2007)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

I'll have to disagree with you there, champ.

Swagger's a bit better on the mic than Morrison.


----------



## vincent k. mcmahon (Jul 6, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher SPOILERS!*



rated_y2j11 said:


> This would just encourage people to say he is Kurt Angle V2


yes because a guy who's gimmick is that he's an amateur wrestler having a submission hold is crazy.


----------



## Vito Corleone (Mar 12, 2010)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

Hopefully faces won't bring that up now like in the past. He needs to be presented seriously now and his demeanour was already more serious on tonight's show which was good.


----------



## walkoff2 (Nov 24, 2009)

*Who will have the better 1st reign?*

Discuss. Who and why? I say Swagger simply because he is a little more established. Sheamus had a little more momentum but I think the IWC is ready for Swagger.


----------



## Rachel Deserved It (Dec 19, 2009)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

I say Swagger over Morrison in mic skills.


----------



## Natsuke (Dec 2, 2009)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*

Swagger just proved he's good enough. And that gutwrench he has is f'in legit pain, unlick the Pump Kick of Sheamus that took a little getting used to.

Swagger, in the span of ONE WEEK, just made himself look like a real champion. While it's nice that Sheamus won a title, it was hard to stomach how his reign went.

For Swagger, so far, so good. He does have a legit WWE background as ECW champion, after all.


----------



## King_Kool-Aid™ (Jul 3, 2007)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*



Vito Corleone said:


> I've always thought his mic skills were decent. Its just his lisp people can't get past. He has the confidence and charisma which Morrison doesn't have.
> 
> Saying Morrison has the charisma of a door knob is an insult to the door knob.


swagger also comes off as entertaining regardless if his mic skills are average where as morrison comes off as a terrible generic drone.


----------



## TJTheGr81 (Feb 16, 2010)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*

Well, its kinda early to compare, but if you stack night 1 of Sheamus as champ against night one of Swagger as champ: Swagger KILLS Sheamus. 

They did it just right, centering the entire show around his win, then having him close out the show standing over Jericho and Edge. 

Whereas with Sheamus, he cut a two minute promo and disappeared the rest of the night while they spent the entire show building up John Cena for no reason.


----------



## dxbender (Jul 22, 2007)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*

Sheamus won in a fluke victory where Cena basically jumped into the table
Swagger won in a smart victory by cashing in MITB


So far, Swagger is winning.


----------



## Van Dayyyyum (Jul 14, 2009)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*

Shaemus beat Cena for the title. Epic points for that.


----------



## andromeda_1979 (Sep 13, 2007)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*

SHAEMUS will be the bigger star of the 2. Shaemus draws a shit ton of heat and has hhh backing not to mention shaemus is on the A show.


----------



## Mizaniac (Feb 9, 2010)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*

He needs a new finisher but not a submission, people are just trying to make him be like Angle.


----------



## Natsuke (Dec 2, 2009)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*



andromeda_1979 said:


> SHAEMUS will be the bigger star of the 2. Shaemus draws a shit ton of heat and has hhh backing not to mention shaemus is on the A show.


The A Show doesn't mean shit. If you don't make it, you're done, ala Kofi. And Sheamus is drawing heat only b/c of the HBK farewell thing from HHH, who's pulling all the stops for this guy.

Swagger didn't need ANY of that extra stuff, he pulled out a star-making performance all on his own. And the belt looks REAL GOOD on him.


----------



## The Ice King (Nov 9, 2009)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*

Swagger for sure. At least after tonight.
If they make him pretty much disappear like Sheamus then it would be a tie.
But I think they've learned from Sheamus' reign. 

And of course Swagger will look much better in the ring, 
and will probably have better opponents than Sheamus.


----------



## Batman (Nov 8, 2009)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*



Van Dayyyyum said:


> Shaemus beat Cena for the title. Epic points for that.


in a tables match. swagger pinned chris jericho. the first undisputed champion.


----------



## Natsuke (Dec 2, 2009)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*

They were correct to give him a belt on Smackdown. RAW is too top-heavy, and I doubt any of those guys are willing to put themselves over Swagger. They were so desperate to make Sheamus big that he immediately got a win over Cena. But now look what happened, Sheamus needed a /second/ push.

Swagger, in my opinion, only needs one, and he got it right.


----------



## Nightmare_SE (Aug 13, 2004)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*

The Torture Rack would suite him although I dislike that move personally.

I wouldn't mind him using the Double Ankle Lock or the Gorilla Clutch Hold.


----------



## philip3831 (Mar 6, 2009)

*Re: Jack Swagger not fit to win the MITB?*

He will be built way better on Smackdown than Raw could have ever dreamed of building him. They establish their guys way better.


----------



## Batman (Nov 8, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher SPOILERS!*



tomkim4 said:


> ankle lock would suit him perfectly but it would be so similar to angle then with his gimmick and look.
> Ive always said he need a submission finisher
> some form of figure 4 leg lock?


hes too big for the ankle lock imo. i would go with the camel clutch.


----------



## Mr. 305 Blaze (May 14, 2009)

*Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

I must admit I really thought WWE was going to give up on Jack Swagger, the way he been booked the last couple of months you would think he was on his way out of the the company and I have lost faith in him. But after tonight (April 2nd), I’ve been entertained by Swagger’s first night as champion then the entire Sheamus reign and I‘m dead serious, Smackdown was just the Jack Swagger show and I was completely sold on everything that happen that I even forgot that Swagger lost to Santino a couple of months back, he is not doing his gorilla entrance anymore, just plain serious (I wouldn’t mind him still doing that prick smile lol). But I was highly entertained from Swagger performance tonight as World Champion then anything Sheamus done when he was champion although I still prefer Swagger could of use some build up but damn WWE truly did a 360 with him tonight.

anyone else is back on Swagger's side?


----------



## the_hoff (Jul 13, 2009)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

I've liked Swagger since his FCW days, kthx.


----------



## Natsuke (Dec 2, 2009)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

Never was on the Swagger bandwagon, but there was no way in hell they'd let a guy like this go to waste. And I've always loved his theme song.


----------



## Sledge. (Feb 5, 2005)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

I enjoy me some Swagger. I'm not a die-hard fan so there isn't any wrestler that gets on my nerves right now.


----------



## RICH ROCKHEAD (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

Liked him for a while now, a good year or so. Marked the fuck out for him when I saw Raw live back in Nov. Proof of that would have been me having his name on my fav. wrestler list in my sig since like February. There is a sudden surge of fans I see, but whatever the more the merrier.


----------



## erikstans07 (Jun 20, 2007)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

I'm a big Swagger fan. I was bummed that they were sorta giving up on him, so I was pleasantly surprised when he won MITB.


----------



## Natsuke (Dec 2, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*

Ride with me on this one!!

An All-American American Sharpshooter. lol


----------



## andromeda_1979 (Sep 13, 2007)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

we all knew he would be champ. it came early. Swagger is not going to be a transtional champ...the wwe want to capitalize and turn him into the next Angle. Big things for swagger, he will retain at extreme rules in an obvious triple threat. Then in may while jericho is fueding with orton (i think orton is coming to smackdwn), swagger will retain against edge or maybe mysterio. Mark my words, it will be swagger vs undertaker or swagger vs orton at summerslam. Swagger will do well in this title reign. I think he will hold it till summerslam and drop it to mega face orton. on a side bar i think swagger vs taker (no title) may happen at mania...i think that after 2 epics against michaels, the wwe will put taker agianst a great oponent but not as high profile (it would be overkill) save cena vs taker for mania 28. But yes swagger is aweswthum (awesome)


----------



## Carcass (Mar 12, 2010)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

Not me. Ending Jericho's reign put him on my naughty list.


----------



## Batman (Nov 8, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoiCSnxUUP0&feature=related what about this


----------



## Mr Nice Guy (Jun 24, 2008)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

Not gonna lie. I marked when he cashed in on Jericho. Even though I read the spoilers. I wasn't too interested in Swagger before but I'm gonna see where this goes.


----------



## Thumbinthebum (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*

Like others have said, the Crossface Chickenwing would suit him perfectly. Or how about the Rings of Saturn (renamed obviously)



King Josh said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoiCSnxUUP0&feature=related what about this


Why would you take that move out of Edge's arsenal?


----------



## Centigold (Apr 5, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*

Lasso From El Paso.


----------



## SarcasmoBlaster (Nov 14, 2008)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

I've never been off the Swagger bandwagon. Ever since his ECW run I've been saying he is Main Event material.


----------



## walkoff2 (Nov 24, 2009)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*

Okay here's another question for the IWC. Will the WWE Universe, not particularly the IWC, more likely to accept Champion Jack Swagger because he is from North America? Gotta admit to the average fan saying you are a two time All-American from OU is going to be more impressive than wrestling all over Europe. It's more likely to catch your attention and make you take notice.


----------



## Batman (Nov 8, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*



peepaholic said:


> Like others have said, the Crossface Chickenwing would suit him perfectly. Or how about the Rings of Saturn (renamed obviously)
> 
> 
> 
> Why would you take that move out of Edge's arsenal?


he hasnt used it in a while. last time i saw a sub,ission from edge it was a sharpshooter.


----------



## Carcass (Mar 12, 2010)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*

Texas Cloverleaf but with him digging his knee into the opponents neck/back like the Liontamer.


----------



## Mr Nice Guy (Jun 24, 2008)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

I loved how Swagger was walking around backstage gloating to all the midcarders lol.


----------



## flip25 (Mar 13, 2010)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*

Swagger, Sheamus was pretty much the lab rat in a push for new talent experiment gone horribly wrong. The oddest part in Sheamus push is that people finally got used to him after he lost the belt and challenge Triple H. The creative team would have learned from their mistake and make Swagger push a better one.


----------



## Carcass (Mar 12, 2010)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*

If he's gonna be feuding with the likes of Edge and Jericho, then Swagger'll have the better reign.


----------



## wrestlingmarx (Apr 2, 2010)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*



SarcasmoBlaster said:


> I've never been off the Swagger bandwagon. Ever since his ECW run I've been saying he is Main Event material.


im with you bud, been a swagger mark for a while, was upset when he was jobbing, so glad he is where he belongs now


----------



## fuhr86 (Jun 18, 2005)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*



Mr Nice Guy said:


> I loved how Swagger was walking around backstage gloating to all the midcarders lol.


Sees Shelton "They should call me the gold standard"

lol


----------



## RatedRudy (Dec 12, 2009)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*



Chris22 said:


> Yeah, he should keep the big toothy smile, i liked it!


yeah man he should keep it, that is like the one thing that makes him stand out and all of a sudden, wwe wants to take that away now that he champ? so stupid, now he is going to be more boring than ever, him having that fake smile alone would have gotten him all the heat he needed


----------



## The Enforcer (Feb 18, 2008)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*

I think with Swagger's long arms something with the upper body would be suitable. Always been a big fan of the dragon sleeper personally.


----------



## Thumbinthebum (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*



King Josh said:


> he hasnt used it in a while. last time i saw a sub,ission from edge it was a sharpshooter.


Yeah but I doubt he'll be using it (the Sharpshooter) again anytime soon since the Hart Dynasty members have finally started using it (Natalya hasn't used it recently but hopefully that will change soon)

If Edge ever needs to use a submission hold again, it would almost certainly need to be the Edgecator.


----------



## Marquette (Aug 5, 2007)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

Seems to be a legit champ IMO. As opposed to Shameful on Raw LOL.


----------



## TheeFuzz (Mar 20, 2009)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

Once I first saw him at the Royal Rumble(ECW aired at a dumb time in Canda.) He got my attention. By the end of Backlash I was hooked. I was pleased to see him win MiTB eventhough I was rooting for Christian. I think he will make a great Champ. I'm just hoping he keeps the title for atleast 3 months.


----------



## The Exterminator (Apr 3, 2010)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

Jericho should still be champ.

He should've knocked off that ...got Cena.


----------



## CM12Punk (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

Always marked for him, even though I really don't agree that he should have the title this early. Then again, he looked good in his first night, so I'm looking forward to this title reign.


----------



## RatedRKO31 (Aug 25, 2009)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

I always been a Swagger mark. He to me was clearly the best to come out of the class of 08' ECW superstar intitaive


----------



## kiss the stick (Sep 6, 2009)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

lol bandwagon, as soon as i started watching him since his ecw run he was a fav of mine, glad he got the belt. Love his Doctor bombs and amateur wrestling background.

I await his next state of the World Championship addresses, great idea for heat imo.


----------



## attitudefan666 (Oct 2, 2009)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

i gave up on him cuz of the bookings the past few months.

Then he won the world champ.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

I'd be happy if I could get on it in the first place. I'm afraid I can't do that, however. He's always been highly annoying. Ending Jericho's reign doesn't exactly help, either. However, I do prefer this than Edge winning at WrestleMania and then Swagger ending his reign the next week, making Jericho look awful, so, I'll give them credit for going about it the right way.

As for him being better than Sheamus, just...no.


----------



## Renegade™ (Dec 23, 2004)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

Never liked Swagger, he's just meh to me, and I felt so very upset he won MITB after being in obscurity for so long.


----------



## Tony777 (Mar 5, 2008)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

<-Is on the bandwagon and always has been


----------



## Bob Lincoln (Aug 27, 2007)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

Loved him as the badass ECW champion, hated to see the way he was used on Raw. I'm psyched to see him as a legitimate guy again.

On the bandwagon I am.


----------



## Batman (Nov 8, 2009)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

ive always been a fan of swagger.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*



dxbender said:


> Sheamus won in a fluke victory where Cena basically jumped into the table
> Swagger won in a smart victory by cashing in MITB
> 
> 
> So far, Swagger is winning.


MITB isn't a fluke victory? Come on, he cashed in when Jericho had bad ribs and just got hit with a Spear. Yes, Sheamus beat Cena in a fluky way in a tables match...but at least he BEAT Cena. Himself, with Cena at 100%. And beating Cena is a lot bigger than beating Jericho. Not to mention, Sheamus won on Pay Per View, which means more than winning on television. Now, yeah, you can say Swagger technically won at WrestleMania, because that's how he got the shot, but only technically.

And even if you're gonna say "going through hell to win a 10 man ladder match to get a shot at the world title is a more legitimate victory than getting a fluke tables match win over Cena", that still doesn't work because Sheamus won his shot with a battle royale, which had even MORE people in it (one of whom was Randy Orton). 

And, Sheamus was undefeated (not including Superstars, which frankly, I don't even consider part of the WWE canon), whereas Swagger has done nothing since last April.

Sheamus is ahead. And by a considerable margin.


----------



## Rachel Deserved It (Dec 19, 2009)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

I've always liked Swagger, i dont just go around telling people who i enjoy for no reason, but if the subject comes up i voice my opinion on the person.

I thought Swagger was the future since he started on ECW fueding with Tommy Dreamer.

Hes got the look, the ability, and his mic skills arnt half bad.

I hope he doesnt have a 3 week title reign though. 

Even if thats the case, i hope he continues going after the belt, or atleast stays relevant near the top of the card.

And im a big Christian and Jericho mark, i just dont really complain about things, i just take them as they come.


----------



## TKOK (Apr 6, 2006)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

He sounded like a robot to me.


----------



## NoLeafClover (Oct 23, 2009)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

Definitely better than Morrison. That is for DAMN sure.


----------



## RemoteControlled (Jun 2, 2008)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*

Swagger may have a better reign on paper, but either Edge or Jericho either one will make him look like its his first day when the destroy him on the mic.


----------



## qbizzle (Dec 24, 2005)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*

Swagger, only because Sheamus' first reign has occurred already and they booked him like crap. I don't know that Sheamus got any legit pinfall wins during his title run, and all matches seemed to end in DQs. He was a weak, transitional champion. 

Now the WWE might do the very same thing with Swagger and make him look weak as hell, but at this point Swagger has a leg up on Sheamus. His run with the ECW title was pretty good too, so I think there is precedent there.


----------



## gary year (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

Swagger >>> Casper for sure. He'll probably have a better run too.

Hated that Jericho had to be the guy to get cashed in on but now really liking the idea of him as champ. Jericho and Edge and the SD! booking really put over the guy well after RAW made him a jobber and Orton killed him in that tag match.

Been a fan since his ECW run, so yeah I'm on the bandwaggon still.


----------



## Azuran (Feb 17, 2009)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

I'm back and I my seat belt is tightly strapped. I lost some faith when the E' decided to waste him on Raw for the past few months. Glad to know they saw the light again.

JACK SWAGGER: WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION!

Yeah, suck on that haters.


----------



## Iceman. (Jan 3, 2010)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

Been a fan since he became ECW champion tbh..


----------



## RWCNT (Aug 24, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*

You people do know that there are no submissions in collegiate wrestling?


----------



## thefutureindustry (Nov 23, 2008)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

heck yea, i still think he needs a manager though


----------



## Zombiekid29 (Oct 8, 2007)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

Really wish they'd let a MITB winner hold onto the thing for more than a month. Use the briefcase to build them up for many months, then strike when the iron is hot (Edge in 2005). A champion should bring prestige to the title, not the other way around.

But what's done is done, so an epic 9 month title reign for Jack Swagger please.


----------



## Rachel Deserved It (Dec 19, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*

The Ankle Lock or the Cammel Clutch.


----------



## thefutureindustry (Nov 23, 2008)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

he's not that bad, but give him a manager and him as a heel would be 10X better, kinda like Edge's first run when he had Lita around. Just something too boost his first title run a bit


----------



## vincent k. mcmahon (Jul 6, 2009)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

i've always liked swagger, he's a very athletic wrestler for his size.


----------



## chinoy316 (Dec 30, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*

I saw on youtube a while back some japanese wrestler use a submission called the Gorilla Clutch (no pun intended) and it looked awesome and not that complicated to do. I think it would be perfect for him.

On a side note, does anyone here know the Hart Lock? Tyson Kidd's finisher in FCW. Now that was a submission.

EDIT: found the video. Number 9 in the list. Gorilla Clutch by Shuji Kondo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awQM2bw2pSg)


----------



## TKOK (Apr 6, 2006)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*



NoLeafCloverRKO said:


> Definitely better than Morrison. That is for DAMN sure.


Pretty sure a retarded monkey could be better than Morrison.


----------



## CM Storm18 (Oct 13, 2009)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

Everything about Swagger was golden up until the speech. Yes it got heat, it was all "Yeah, I'm reading my lines, fuck you guys". But it was still bad. No excuses. He's awkward sounding, like an elementary school kid reading a speech off his cue cards.

Though I am liking the overuse of the Powerbomb. Making it look like a move to look out for.


----------



## Panzer (May 31, 2007)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*



The Enforcer said:


> I think with Swagger's long arms something with the upper body would be suitable. Always been a big fan of the dragon sleeper personally.


Modify that Dragon Sleeper with a grapevine and we have a finisher.

Crossface Chickenwing is nice but it's been done to death.


----------



## -SAW- (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

He was reading from a piece of paper. Of coarse it's supposed to sound bad. And if Swagger was worse on the mic than John fucking Morrison, he wouldn't have a mic to begin with, much less a world title.


----------



## JuviJuiceIsLoose (Mar 27, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*

Here's a video that shows a cool submission.

Obviously, this is a Japanese fetish video, but the move looks cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4gaI1Iy7x8


----------



## -SAW- (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*

I agree with the Cloverleaf. That'd be awesome.


----------



## CM Storm18 (Oct 13, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*

A laying down grapevined Dragon Sleeper would look quite destructive from Swagger.


----------



## Panzer (May 31, 2007)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*



JuviJuiceIsLoose said:


> Here's a video that shows a cool submission.
> 
> Obviously, this is a Japanese fetish video, but the move looks cool.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4gaI1Iy7x8


Looks to complicated and hard to pull off. Especially for Swagger. A Bite of the Dragon would be great imo.

Also, I've got an erection now.


----------



## Rachel Deserved It (Dec 19, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*

Also a cloverleaf would be cool, and a rear naked choke.


----------



## <zero (Mar 16, 2009)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*



Leechmaster said:


> Unlike the other people the WWE is pushing, the Miz is actually getting built up as a credible contender BEFORE he wins the world title


Very true



Leechmaster said:


> And no, ring skills do not compensate for a lack of mic skills EXCEPT in special situations like Benoit and Hart


Yes and no

Shawn Michaels was remarkably average on the mike beginning his post-Rockers singles career. His stuff during the DX years could be pretty shaky, too, as he'd sort of ramble on. None of it mattered, though, beacause he had charisma that only the top superstars have and was great in the ring

Ditto Eddie Guerrero. He really didn't begin to hit his interview stride until he got to the WWE, but he was so good at getting his character over with his facial and body reactions that he had a star quality

WCW, early into Eddie's tenure, took a survey among their fans as to which wrestlers they liked the most. WCW was gobsmacked when they got the results back and found that Eddie rated as one of the most popular, and this was when he was a pretty vanilla babyface

Anabolic Warrior was one of the worst on interviews every, delivering what someone best described as Bob Backlund on an acid trip. Yet he got over based on a freakish look and even freakier charisma

One other thing to remember is that with special exceptions, everyone in TNA and the WWE-EEEE has their promos scripted for them. That makes it even tougher for new guys to get over since so much that is written sounds just like what everyone else says. A guy can be a good talker and still come across like a geek because he's being given awful material

All that being written, yes, it's best if a wrestler can communicate in order to click with the fans, but it's not the be all, end all

Swagger can get over if booked properly. He's good in the ring, a good athlete and is naturally hatable. His lisp is something that the fans will get on him about, too

The WWE-EEEE needs to give him wins in order to make him look credible after months of burying him with job after job....


----------



## VaderFat™ (Nov 9, 2003)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*

Remember, the submission has to be something the face can logically get out of/make it to the ropes in a really dramatic fashion.

Therefore, the Cloverleaf would be perfect.


----------



## Mojo Stark (Jul 1, 2009)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*

Swagger. If he successfully and _cleanly_ defends the title once, then his reign is better than Sheamus, who held the title for what, two months and never defended it clean?


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*



JoMojo_Rising said:


> Swagger. If he successfully and _cleanly_ defends the title once, then his reign is better than Sheamus, who held the title for what, two months and never defended it clean?


Sheamus had much better competition, though. Cena is easily tougher than Edge and Orton is easily tougher than Jericho, as is going into an Elimination Chamber with those 2, Triple H and 2 others. Swagger could beat Jericho at Extreme Rules.....let's be honest, that isn't exactly hard. Sheamus could do that.

If Swagger beats Taker, clean or not, I'll concede that point, though. LOL.


----------



## MBL (Jan 26, 2006)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*

The gutwrench powerbomb is a great finisher and should never be replaced, but a second submission finisher would add another element to his game. I agree that the crossface chickenwing would be perfect. Just please not the ankle lock lol.


----------



## chinoy316 (Dec 30, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*

The Gorilla Clutch is a modified Cloverleaf with a Body Scissors option. C'mon people who's with me?


----------



## squared circle (Mar 13, 2010)

*I'm all for Jack Swagger being WHC, but this should be Christian's*

This isn't another thread moaning about how Christian should be Mr. MITB or outraged that Jack Swagger is our WHC. Personally, I like Jack Swagger being champion because it was definitely a swerve, he can go in the ring (being a 2x ALL-AMERICAN-AMERICAN) and he can hold his own on the mic even with that lisp of his. He just needs to drop that monkey-gorilla like thing he has going on and become this cocky "better than everyone" heel. Plus, it will be interesting to see how he evolves during his reign. I also believe that Christian has all the tools he needs to make it to the main event scene on his own.

However, this current storyline, involving Edge and Jericho was made for Christian, not Swagger because Christian actually has history with both Edge and Jericho. You could of had Jericho constantly outsmarting Edge and retaining his championship, by using dirty tactics obviously. Then you could of had Edge get frustrated by this always happening and have Edge destroy Jericho. Christian could then come down and cash it in on Jericho and become WHC, which would throw Christian into the mix.

Then Christian could play the tweener role saying how he's better than his brother Edge, because he actually got the job done against Jericho. Then you have Christian retain it against Jericho or Edge (singles matches, triple threats, gimmick matches, etc) up until Summerslam where you have a triple threat TLC match involving both Edge and Jericho, where Edge finally wins the championship since he's the babyface.

Thoughts?


----------



## Rachel Deserved It (Dec 19, 2009)

*Re: I'm all for Jack Swagger being WHC, but this should be Christian's*

I mean the Storyline is fit for Christian, but that doesnt mean he should of been in Swaggers position.

Who knows by the time the MITB ppv roles around Edge could finally be World Champion and Christian could win MITB just to screw Edge over soon after.


----------



## CM Storm18 (Oct 13, 2009)

*Re: I'm all for Jack Swagger being WHC, but this should be Christian's*

You have Edge/Jericho/Christian staring you right in the face but you give it to Swagger. Wtf?

It would've made a lot more sense, but I guess they want to build a new kid for SD! like they did for RAW ASAP.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

*Re: I'm all for Jack Swagger being WHC, but this should be Christian's*



Rachel Deserved It said:


> I mean the Storyline is fit for Christian, but that doesnt mean he should of been in Swaggers position.
> 
> Who knows by the time the MITB ppv roles around Edge could finally be World Champion and Christian could win MITB just to screw Edge over soon after.


Name me anybody who's lost 3 MITB's and then won it. Christian's role in that match is no different than Shelton Benjamin's, he's just filler.

And, yes, it SHOULD be Christian's, but Vince just doesn't want him in the main event. I don't know what he has to do, go on some form of undectectable steroids and bulk up, go back in time and make himself 26, give Triple H a hummer. I don't know, but something has to happen.


----------



## Centigold (Apr 5, 2009)

*Re: I'm all for Jack Swagger being WHC, but this should be Christian's*

Christian/Edge/Jericho feud is a feud that should be reserved for a Wrestlemania in Canada. Its thier big money match and if Bret Hart would be special referee in that match, it would be awesome.


----------



## CM Storm18 (Oct 13, 2009)

*Re: I'm all for Jack Swagger being WHC, but this should be Christian's*

Hair growth formula, man tan, steroids, tights. Then he can main event. >_>


----------



## TKOK (Apr 6, 2006)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

You don't necessarily NEED mic skill but they sure as hell help.


----------



## squared circle (Mar 13, 2010)

*Re: I'm all for Jack Swagger being WHC, but this should be Christian's*



Rachel Deserved It said:


> I mean the Storyline is fit for Christian, but that doesnt mean he should of been in Swaggers position.
> 
> Who knows by the time the MITB ppv roles around Edge could finally be World Champion and Christian could win MITB just to screw Edge over soon after.


I don't think Christian will win the MITB PPV. I think that's either going to The Miz or a newly heel Morrison to help him get over. Also, Edge's next reign CANNOT be a 1 month reign, that would just be disastrous!



Pyro™ said:


> Name me anybody who's lost 3 MITB's and then won it. Christian's role in that match is no different than Shelton Benjamin's, he's just filler.
> 
> And, yes, it SHOULD be Christian's, but Vince just doesn't want him in the main event. I don't know what he has to do, go on some form of undectectable steroids and bulk up, go back in time and make himself 26, give Triple H a hummer, I don't know, but something has to happen.


I think Christian just has to GET ON HIS KNEEZ and maybe Vince will give him a shot. I don't understand what he has to do either. Hopefully he gets at least one championship reign whether it be the WHC or WWE championship.


----------



## Gin (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*

The All-American-American-American-Gold-Medalist-American-Hero-Ankle-Lock-for-all-American-Americans.


----------



## CM Storm18 (Oct 13, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*

Submission finisher's name... Tongue Tied... That is all.


----------



## SP103 (Jul 21, 2008)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*



vincent k. mcmahon said:


> i've always liked swagger, he's a very athletic wrestler for his size.


Seriously? Are you watching the matches or just buying the hype? The guy botches more moves than any wrestler I've seen in the past 10 years.

He's a trainwreck, and this is his last shot before he gets the pink slip which he should of received after that terrible promo when Christian returned. 

Cena haters chant you can't wrestle... which is slightly correct. But this guy can't fart in the ring without botching it.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

Been a fan since his title matches with Christian, so i'm happy to see em win the big one.


----------



## JustTooCold (Jun 12, 2007)

*Re: Jack Swagger not fit to win the MITB?*



NJ88 said:


> Didn't everybody in the match spend the majority of it outside the ring?



Good point. With 10 men in the match, which is already 4 too many, a lot of the people are bound to be out there while the others have the spotlight focused on them. He's not a high-flyer so he really didn't have a lot to bring in terms of spots other than being the base for most guys like Kane has been.

The MITB is just a vehicle for an upper midcarder with main event potential to win the belt. I think he can go in the ring and should be given a chance to be in the main event. At least that means more new blood in the title picture.


----------



## Target 02 (Sep 11, 2007)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

Fact here is Swagger is, in fact, a good technical wrestler. He isn't bad on the mic. He has good size.

Problem is booking. He's been a jobber since 2009 and all of a sudden in February he's been lifted from the status. Build him properly and people won't complain as much.


----------



## Geeve (Dec 16, 2007)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

It stops him from bashing his chest and his little routine I'm all for it, the serious Swagger works like how he put the title in the faces of Hart Dynasty. Would laugh at that with his previous character, less talking less lisp and he will be taken seriously.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

- i don't think he has bad mic skills but his lisp does'nt make it an better.
- his now serious atttitude seems forced to be.


----------



## P.Smith (Jan 24, 2010)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

I've been marking for Swagger ever since he won the ECW championship. You only have to look at him to realise he is a star.


----------



## Best Bout Machine (Jan 24, 2009)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*



the_hoff said:


> I've liked Swagger since his FCW days, kthx.


This.


----------



## Pittsburgh (Jan 14, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*

Obviously something that works the back of the opponent to play along with the Gutwrench. A torture rack would be pretty good, especially since he could turn it into the powerbomb with a simple spin.


----------



## Thumbinthebum (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*



Pittsburgh said:


> Obviously something that works the back of the opponent to play along with the Gutwrench. A torture rack would be pretty good, especially since he could turn it into the powerbomb with a simple spin.


Something like this?


----------



## Pittsburgh (Jan 14, 2009)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

Never got off since his ECW debut. That's when he got into my sig, and he hasn't been removed since. He has the looks, the charisma, the in-ring skills and the superstar vibe that's needed to be a true champion. 'nuff said.


----------



## Rawlin (Sep 28, 2008)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

I'm a fan, but i don't agree with the MITB win nor do I agree with him getting the title.

but whatever, WWE is just randomizing title reigns now, so it's cool.


----------



## CM Storm18 (Oct 13, 2009)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

I'll join the bandwagon for the lulz. Out of Swagger's reign, I'm hoping most for this to happen again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r-Z7_1bL2g

But this time, it'll slide down his shoulder while he nonchalantly poses:









And I guess to see where everything goes from here on out... I suppose.


----------



## ßen1 (Oct 11, 2009)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

I've always been a big fan, but I didn't want this to happen so soon. It's undeserving as of yet. However, he certainly didn't look out of place on Smackdown, and the promos with him just walking up and standing there? Awesome.


----------



## Fri Night Delight (Feb 21, 2010)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

I'm amazed at how many people like him now he has won a championship...
Not only Miz trolls but Swagger trolls now.... great. fpalm


----------



## NJ88 (Jan 27, 2009)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

I don't think it's as much people coming back on the bandwaggon, than him actually doing something worth while, therefore people have a reason to talk about him again. Before, nobody really cared because he was losing to Santino and Mark Henry all the time. I've always been a Swagger fan, was rooting for him in MITB and couldn't be more happy he won the world title. Long live Swagger!


----------



## BossJoel14 (Dec 20, 2009)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*



Pyro™ said:


> Sheamus had much better competition, though. Cena is easily tougher than Edge and Orton is easily tougher than Jericho, as is going into an Elimination Chamber with those 2, Triple H and 2 others. Swagger could beat Jericho at Extreme Rules.....let's be honest, that isn't exactly hard. Sheamus could do that.
> 
> If Swagger beats Taker, clean or not, I'll concede that point, though. LOL.


I swear you're a Jericho mark?


----------



## Jamie1™ (Jul 25, 2007)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*

Swagger.


----------



## fjl2nd (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

Always on the bandwagon. THIS is why I love Smackdown. We get different Champions.

Suggestion for Swagger. Give the State of the Championship speech after each PPV or each win. Maybe even weekly/bi-weekly. Give him a podium in the ring, a prepared speech, and maybe a suit. This could definitely be a good way to get more heat.


----------



## deadbolt (Mar 11, 2010)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

Although maybe he is the champion a bit too early could make for an interesting angle leading to Extreme Rules(triple threat seems a lock right??). With Edge and Jericho beating the hell out of each other and Swagger keeps coming out on top and looking strong. I think he will drop to Edge at ER setting up and Edge/Swagger feud for the title for a while


----------



## Jamie1™ (Jul 25, 2007)

*Re: Jack Swagger not fit to win the MITB?*

Whats your point? Edge has made a career out of doing the same thing.


----------



## Magic (Feb 28, 2009)

*Re: Jack Swagger not fit to win the MITB?*



Jamie1™;8261497 said:


> Whats your point? Edge has made a career out of doing the same thing.


Edge has charisma and mic skills, something that Swagger doesn't have. Edge also had a ton of build up when he won his title.



JustTooCold said:


> The MITB is just a vehicle for an upper midcarder with main event potential to win the belt. I think he can go in the ring and should be given a chance to be in the main event. At least that means more new blood in the title picture.


Swagger became a nobody on RAW and was nowhere close to a upper midcarder. He basically became apart of the undercard. They didn't build him up at all for his MITB win, and then fucked even more on SD! letting him win with no build up.


----------



## EmVeePee (Oct 22, 2008)

*Re: I'm all for Jack Swagger being WHC, but this should be Christian's*

Well there's no point discussing whether Christian should be in it. That would be a really interesting storyline, making the Jericho/Edge feud more 3 dimensional but we all know that Christian will never ever be a world champion.

As for Swagger, I don't think he's ready enough to be on that level. They've pretty much shoved the title down his throat and he's still pretty weak in terms of promos and character. He's had a few good feuds with Christian and MVP, but it will be interesting to see what he can do now (not much imo)


----------



## Jamie1™ (Jul 25, 2007)

*Re: I'm all for Jack Swagger being WHC, but this should be Christian's*

Really no need for this thread. Just look at Pyro's posts and that's most of the responses you will get in here.


----------



## Poppin' Fresh (Dec 14, 2008)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

I marked for Swagger ever since he came to the WWE. Since he joined Raw, I had high hopes for him. But my support for the guy died down just as WWE's booking did. It wasn't his own doing, I just thought, why jump on the bandwagon of a guy that looks as if he's going to get released? But now he's World Champion, and he looked pretty damn good out there last night. I actually hope he has a very long reign, that's the only way the WWE can cement his place in the main event. I'm officially a Jack Swagger mark.


----------



## HoMiCiDaL26 (Jul 20, 2009)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*

No matter what happens Swagger isn't going to get a decent reign. WWE wont even give Cena or Batista a credible run with the title let alone Jack Swagger, somebody who could use it.


----------



## Vovi (Sep 23, 2008)

*Re: Jack Swagger not fit to win the MITB?*

Swagger was outside the ring for whole match? Are you crazy? What about Shelton Benjamin, i think he was in-ring for 10 seconds and did nothing.

He wasn't jobber u idiot, they always did it same way - if you want to win some you have to lose some.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*



BossJoel14 said:


> I swear you're a Jericho mark?


Damn straight. What's your point? ~__~


----------



## BossJoel14 (Dec 20, 2009)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*



Pyro™ said:


> Damn straight. What's your point? ~__~


You're referring to him as if he's a fluke champion like Kane.. but don't worry


----------



## ßen1 (Oct 11, 2009)

*Re: Jack Swagger not fit to win the MITB?*



Vovi said:


> Swagger was outside the ring for whole match? Are you crazy? What about Shelton Benjamin, i think he was in-ring for 10 seconds and did nothing.


Shelton Benjamin didn't win Money In The Bank either though.

---------

Meh, I'm torn on this one. He was shit on RAW, so I don't see why they gave him the MITB, but I'm glad they put him on Smackdown now. That's better for the kid. He can become a pretty credible performer on Smackdown, whereas on RAW, I couldn't see him getting the airtime to do anything good.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*

Swagger, however not by match. Pains me to say it even.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*



BossJoel14 said:


> You're referring to him as if he's a fluke champion like Kane.. but don't worry


I'm referring to him as to how he's booked in the WWE.


----------



## PotterNo1 (Feb 5, 2007)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*

Both guys kind of had opposite effects on me to be honest. When I first saw Swagger I thought he was pretty unremarkable, not that entertaining and had some pretty average matches with Matt Hardy. He then grew on me more and more and his return to ECW for the homecoming show turned me, he was totally brilliant and owned that show. Much as he totally owned Smackdown this week!

When I first saw Sheamus I liked him, I thought he looked very impressive and had a good look about him. I then sort of thought he faded into the background a bit, even Tyler Reks was getting more airtime, then his push out of nowhere came as a bit of a shock. I still liked him and was happy he won the title but I wouldn't say I tune in to RAW because Sheamus is worth watching. I'm more inclined to tune in to Smackdown to watch Swagger.

I'm going to say Swagger will have a better first reign, hopefully he will dispose of Jericho/Edge at Extreme Rules then have a good feud with someone else to cement him as champ. At least with Swagger nobody can say he has no wrestling tallent. One more thing- I think if Swagger and Sheamus feuded, both as heels the fans would side more with Swagger.


----------



## HoMiCiDaL26 (Jul 20, 2009)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*

Nice post.

Swagger has better in-ring ability than Sheamus but Sheamus is way better on the mic, in fact Sheamus is such a natural on the stick; he's underrated immensely. IDK who has the better look between the two, as both look like World Champion's. I'm on the fence as to who I prefer, but I do think Swagger's reign will be cut short.


----------



## HoMiCiDaL26 (Jul 20, 2009)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*

Nice post.

Swagger has better in-ring ability than Sheamus but Sheamus is way better on the mic, in fact Sheamus is such a natural on the stick; he's underrated immensely. IDK who has the better look between the two, as both look like World Champion's. I'm on the fence as to who I prefer, but I do think Swagger's reign will be cut short.


----------



## Fri Night Delight (Feb 21, 2010)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*

Jesus Christ every thread now has Swagger in the title or is about swagger JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT SWAGGER!


----------



## P.Smith (Jan 24, 2010)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*

Sheamus's WWE championship reign was terribly booked and made him look like a complete fluke. He hardly had any time on raw ffs. At least around half of SD was circled around Swagger winning the tile because after all it is a momentous occasion.


----------



## HoMiCiDaL26 (Jul 20, 2009)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*



Fri Night Delight said:


> Jesus Christ every thread now has Swagger in the title or is about swagger JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT SWAGGER!


Fuck off then?


----------



## Fri Night Delight (Feb 21, 2010)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*



HoMiCiDaL26 said:


> Fuck off then?


You first cock sucker.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*



Fri Night Delight said:


> Jesus Christ every thread now has Swagger in the title or is about swagger JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT SWAGGER!


I'm sure you'll say this if Morrison ever wins the title...


----------



## trustinme (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

i dont think theres been any doubt that swagger is half decent in the ring,im glad he won mitb over the likes of mvp,hardy and mcintyre who by the way are far worse in the ring than swagger.
not really sure what to think about the title win atm,ive never had any feelings towards him tbh.he's ok,has potential and its been along time since ive seen a gutrench powerbomb look decent and powerful.
he reminds me of a kinda skinny brock lesnar,just like shameus reminds me of jbl(inring wise anyway)
neither are superb but neither are awful,they've both got a future thats for sure.


----------



## CMPimp (Dec 16, 2008)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

When WWE gave up on him, i thought the were not gonna give him chance but few months later they did. I think he needs to go back to the way was when he was on ECW and say how great he is because if he continues to give that look he had when he one the title nobody will care bout him. I'm glad he one but i would be shocked he holds that unitl the Summerslam PPV.


----------



## Do Your Fcking Job (Feb 9, 2009)

*Re: Jack Swagger not fit to win the MITB?*

As I keep saying:

Swagger = LOL.

The way he has been built up is hilariously awful. Im prepared to give him a chance though, we do need new stars....but Swagger? Really?


----------



## trustinme (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: Jack Swagger not fit to win the MITB?*



Main Event Mafia said:


> The bloke was outside the ring during the whole of the match and only came in a couple minutes before the win. This dude is a jobber, why allow him to win? He acts like a crazed ape and speaks like Sylvester the cat.


just like kennedy in mitb 3 then.the only thing he did was jump off the ladder with hornswoggle on his back and take a swanton from jeff.tbh who was fit to win mitb this year?it was full of unacheivers and midcarders,better swagger than mvp,hardy or mcintyre.


----------



## Cerbs (Feb 11, 2008)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

_On_ the bandwagon? I'm fucking _pulling_ it.


----------



## PowPow (Jun 6, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*

Why does he need a submission finisher? His finisher is very credible as it is. I can't remember anyone kicking out of it, and he has the size to pull it off.


----------



## peyt d' chicken (Jun 23, 2007)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*

Sheamus, the lobsterhead.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

*Re: Jack Swagger not fit to win the MITB?*



trustinme said:


> just like kennedy in mitb 3 then.the only thing he did was jump off the ladder with hornswoggle on his back and take a swanton from jeff.*tbh who was fit to win mitb this year?*it was full of unacheivers and midcarders,better swagger than mvp,hardy or mcintyre.


I think you already know the answer to this question.


----------



## BornBad (Jan 27, 2004)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

1)Swagger is not bad on the mic

2)Morrison hell is great on the mic


----------



## ßen1 (Oct 11, 2009)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

I kinda agree, but he's not so bad that it makes me cringe or wonder what the fuck he's doing on the microphone. However, he really could benefit from a heel manager, talking shit for him. Luke Gallows would have been awesome if he wasn't with the SES.


----------



## trustinme (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: Jack Swagger not fit to win the MITB?*



Pyro™ said:


> I think you already know the answer to this question.


yep,christian of course.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*



4hisdamnself said:


> 1)Swagger is not bad on the mic
> 
> 2)Morrison hell is great on the mic


Morrison, the guy who nearly everyone in the universe thinks sucks on the mic (including SOME of his fans, even) is GREAT? If he's GREAT, then what words would you use to describe people like Kurt Angle? Edge? Hell, better yet, on an even higher level, what words would you use to describe people like JBL? Mick Foley? Stone Cold? Chris Jericho? Ric Flair? 

I mean, seriously.....GREAT? It's unbelievable how much that word is passed around, it really is.

As for Morrison vs Swagger, at the moment I'm more annoyed by Swagger but only due to the lisp, which obviously, there isn't really anything that can be done about that. In terms of actual delivery, Swagger is better.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*



Pyro™ said:


> Morrison, the guy who nearly everyone in the universe thinks sucks on the mic (including SOME of his fans, even) is GREAT? If he's GREAT, then what words would you use to describe people like Kurt Angle? Edge? Hell, better yet, on an even higher level, what words would you use to describe people like JBL? Mick Foley? Stone Cold? Chris Jericho? Ric Flair?
> 
> I mean, seriously.....GREAT? It's unbelievable how much that word is passed around, it really is.
> 
> As for Morrison vs Swagger, at the moment I'm more annoyed by Swagger but only due to the lisp, which obviously, there isn't really anything that can be done about that. In terms of actual delivery, Swagger is better.


I think he meant 'Not Horrifying'. As in 'John Morrison is not horrifyingly bad on the mic.'

Hes still wrong though.

Anyways, how would you rank Jake The Snake Roberts on the mic? IMO the man is a level all on his own.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*



redeadening said:


> I think he meant 'Not Horrifying'. As in 'John Morrison is not horrifyingly bad on the mic.'
> 
> Hes still wrong though.
> 
> Anyways, how would you rank Jake The Snake Roberts on the mic? IMO the man is a level all on his own.


He didn't say he was "not horrifying", he said he was "great". He said Swagger's not bad. 

I haven't heard a LOT of Roberts promos, but he's ok. He's good, but I don't know where I rank him. I don't really get into the feel of listening to him too much.


----------



## crazy141 (Apr 3, 2010)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

Jeff Hardy is the worst


----------



## Legend Killer 2010 (Mar 7, 2010)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

i like him , he has a good look, good name , he has a good moveset when he wants to show it as well 

i dont think its come to soon for him at all


----------



## scottishman (Apr 27, 2009)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

I like swagger and if he puts on matches similar to what he had in his ecw reign i will be happy as he put on some great ones. However i do think this kinda came out of nowhere with no build up. Not as bad as Sheamus though.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*



Pyro™ said:


> He didn't say he was "not horrifying", he said he was "great". He said Swagger's not bad.
> 
> I haven't heard a LOT of Roberts promos, but he's ok. He's good, but I don't know where I rank him. I don't really get into the feel of listening to him too much.


Morrison is definitely not anywhere near great. At his peak back on 'The Dirt Sheet', he was only 'good'.

Anyways i cant believe you are not a fan of Jake the Snake, knowing your love of great mic work. The man had an perhaps some of the greatest promos in history. Hell, they were so good i consider them art. They were so psychologically deep. His delivery was intense yet VERY calm, he never shouted. And he got the point across beautifully. When Jake cut a promo, you would remember it. The man paved the way for guys like Mick, Punk and Jericho today.

You gotta check out more of his stuff.


----------



## P.Smith (Jan 24, 2010)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*



Pyro™ said:


> Morrison, the guy who nearly everyone in the universe thinks sucks on the mic (including SOME of his fans, even) is GREAT? If he's GREAT, then what words would you use to describe people like Kurt Angle? Edge? Hell, better yet, on an even higher level, what words would you use to describe people like JBL? Mick Foley? Stone Cold? Chris Jericho? Ric Flair?
> 
> I mean, seriously.....GREAT? It's unbelievable how much that word is passed around, it really is.
> 
> As for Morrison vs Swagger, at the moment I'm more annoyed by Swagger but only due to the lisp, which obviously, there isn't really anything that can be done about that. In terms of actual delivery, Swagger is better.


I don't think you actually watched the video. 

He was just saying that JoMo can be golden on the mic. Dunno what's up with him at the moment though lol.


----------



## PowPow (Jun 6, 2009)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*



Leechmaster said:


> The Miz will win world titles soon enough. Unlike the other people the WWE is pushing, the Miz is actually getting built up as a credible contender BEFORE he wins the world title.
> 
> And no, ring skills do not compensate for a lack of mic skills EXCEPT in special situations like Benoit and Hart. Hell, you mention Jeff, Goldberg, and Khali, but none of them were all that good in the ring (Khali is awful and Jeff is a spot monkey). Jeff won the title because he brought a unique character to the table (not a retread like Swagger), Goldberg won because WCW was content making him the next big monster, and Khali won the title because Vince wanted to tap into the Indian market.
> 
> ...


I can't stop laughing at the fact that you keep asserting that anyone that doesn't agree with you is a fool. Not only this, you seem incapable of reading properly, because I never said that Jeff, Khali etc were good in the ring but I clearly said that mannerisms, look and character do a shitload more for a person than mic skills.

There only appears to be one fool, and it is you. You should also learn to argue since your reasons do not match your conclusions.

"Lesnar didn't have to cut promos when he first started, but that's because he was a freak of nature."

Lesnar got over and became successful without any mic skills basically. You admit that and still think mic skills are important.

"Jeff won the title because he brought a unique character to the table"

Which is independent of mic skills.

"Goldberg won because WCW was content making him the next big monster,"

He also won the world title in WWE.

Not to mention the fact that you think Swagger and Legacy are bad on the mic, yet are getting huge pushes in the WWE. And you also think that mic skills are important. So either they aren't as bad on the mic as you suggest or mic skills are not as important as you continually suggest.

Maybe you should think your argument through before calling people fools.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*



P.Smith said:


> I don't think you actually watched the video.
> 
> He was just saying that JoMo can be golden on the mic. Dunno what's up with him at the moment though lol.


I'm familiar with the promo, and I'm not saying this just to be critical, but, it's bad. Honestly, I'm not saying that just to hate on him. I can even admit that he's improved immensely from his days as Johnny Nitro.....which is actually the thing about him that bugs me the most. He's improved so, so much...and he's still awful. There are very, very select times when he isn't TOO bad, but even then he's not good.



> Anyways i cant believe you are not a fan of Jake the Snake, knowing your love of great mic work. The man had an perhaps some of the greatest promos in history. Hell, they were so good i consider them art. They were so psychologically deep. His delivery was intense yet VERY calm, he never shouted. And he got the point across beautifully. When Jake cut a promo, you would remember it. The man paved the way for guys like Mick, Punk and Jericho today.
> 
> You gotta check out more of his stuff.


Like I said, he's good, I'm just not so into his promos that I could watch them endlessly. I don't know, maybe it's the always calm delivery, or maybe it's the fact that I have a hard time getting through any wrestling that's REALLY old, like, from the 80's or early 90's, etc. I don't know. I like his stuff, but it's just not completely for me.


----------



## JABradt85 (Dec 30, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*



peepaholic said:


> Or how about the Rings of Saturn


That was my thought also.


----------



## greyknight90 (Mar 7, 2010)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

Don't mind the lisp, it'll score him some heat. Still what struck me was that he stopped acting like the berserk ape and became all super serious on us. Can't decide if it's a good thing or not. I can't say I liked the gorilla thing, but the change to solemn champ is pretty strange. Still, I'm definitely hoping that this turns into a lengthy run and that Swagger becomes a legit champ and main eventer.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: I'm all for Jack Swagger being WHC, but this should be Christian's*



squared circle said:


> This isn't another thread moaning about how Christian should be Mr. MITB


Yes it is lol.


----------



## ThaRegul8r (Dec 18, 2005)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*



Dark_Raiden said:


> He could use the stretch muffler, Brock Lock version or lifting version. He could us queen angelito stretch, Crossface, Abdominal Stretch, or even a Full Nelson or grounded Full nelson. The possibilities are endless.





Rachel Deserved It said:


> The Ankle Lock or the Cammel Clutch.


Full Nelson Camel Clutch


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

*Re: Jack Swagger not fit to win the MITB?*

I'm still baffled at how Vince claimed in an interview that "you have to give the people what they want" but Christian hasn't had a main event push after he blew the roof off at WrestleMania 25 and got several other huge pops throughout the year but he'll just hand Sheamus and Swagger the world title instead of building them up the proper way and getting them to world title level beforehand.


----------



## Rezmie (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*



fjl2nd said:


> Always on the bandwagon. THIS is why I love Smackdown. We get different Champions.
> 
> Suggestion for Swagger. Give the State of the Championship speech after each PPV or each win. Maybe even weekly/bi-weekly. Give him a podium in the ring, a prepared speech, and maybe a suit. This could definitely be a good way to get more heat.


Gr8 suggestion!!!


----------



## SHIRLEY (Jun 9, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*



RWCNT said:


> You people do know that there are no submissions in collegiate wrestling?


I know that side triangle chokes are illegal in amateur wrestling. Hence why Angle used one against Nigel McGuinness in that TNA match not so long ago. Sadly the TNA announcers were to retarded to realise the subtle brilliance of it and didn't sell it.

Hence, Swagger could use one and the WWE should do an angle where it eventually gets outlawed but he keeps using it during ref bumps, after the match, or such like.


----------



## Pickaldo (Mar 14, 2010)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*

Triangle choke!!!


----------



## Cerbs (Feb 11, 2008)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*

Morrison has never got a crowd reaction even once in his career like Swagger recieved during his State of the Championship Address last night. Not even close. The fact people don't understand why he sounded as monotone as he did is pretty hilarious actually. He's like the big dumb jock in high school. He's supposed to sound like that. He practically came off like some twat running for class president and did it flawlessly. 



SaveMeCM said:


> I say Mike Adamle. He'd do an awesome job. Or heel Jim Ross if he'd take the gig.


Adamle and Swagger would be awesome beyond belief. Swagger's promos are a little similar to why I liked Adamle, mainly because he was sooooo annoying and WRONG you couldn't help but love the guy. But Adamle stuttered a lot, and I'm not sure a promo with both of those two would sound near as funny as it might seem, lol. 


TKOK™ said:


> You don't necessarily NEED mic skill but they sure as hell help.


Don't be ridiculous, of course you need them. 

Look at Shelton Benjamin. How long has he been with the company? He and Morrison are extremely privileged to even get a mid card title. And until either of them get better, they will never win a world title, continue to lose at Mania, and become MITB fodder every year.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

*Re: I'm all for Jack Swagger being WHC, but this should be Christian's*

WWE has'nt mentioned any history Between Jericho/Christian since Christian's move to TNA. 
Except for Backlash no one had made any mention of Edge/Chrisitan being brothers, being a tag team or even knowing either one exist.



Starbuck said:


> Yes it is lol.


not really, now it's moaning that Christian did'nt win the MITB briefcase to win the HWC and fued with Jericho/Edge (even thou we don't know how Swagger's reign is gonna turn out)


----------



## Pickaldo (Mar 14, 2010)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

I liked him before it was cool. 

There should be a seperate Swagger forum on here, every second thread is about him anyway.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

Even if you've been a fan of a wrestler before they turned, won a championship or got a push OR you've grown to like a certain wrestler some people will still group everyone together and talk about how we all jumped on the bandwagon.


----------



## Bwfc1993 (Jan 18, 2010)

*Does Jack Swagger deserve to be World Heavyweight Champion?*

i think No. Jericho would beat him in a regular match.


----------



## greyknight90 (Mar 7, 2010)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

Never left it. I've been keeping an eye on him since ECW. Glad to see he's getting pushed. Here's hoping we've got a legitimate main eventer and champion for the future.


----------



## Rezmie (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: Who will have the better 1st reign?*

Hope Swagger has a better title reign


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

I never left.


----------



## LethalWeapon000 (Aug 15, 2008)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*

Never left, we just hit a rocky patch.


----------



## Cerbs (Feb 11, 2008)

*Re: Does Jack Swagger deserve to be World Heavyweight Champion?*

So... we're talking in kayfabe here? :[


----------



## Sorrow Hill (Apr 13, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*

Ankle Lock. So he can officially be Kurt Angle 2.0


----------



## Cerbs (Feb 11, 2008)

*Re: I'm all for Jack Swagger being WHC, but this should be Christian's*

Everyone was expecting Christian to win, so I'm glad it didn't go down that way. Swagger winning MITB and cashing in two days later was a very pleasant surprise.


----------



## Batman (Nov 8, 2009)

*Re: Swagger needs a submission finisher*

not the ankle lock. he is too big for that move. the educator would probably be best imo.


----------



## Cerbs (Feb 11, 2008)

Yeah, he should definitely avoid the ankle lock. He gets compared to Angle enough as it is.


----------



## chrisis908765 (Jun 14, 2005)

*Re: Jack Swagger not fit to win the MITB?*

Christian should of won


----------



## ßen1 (Oct 11, 2009)

Give him a kimora!


----------



## Pauli_Mascona (Oct 6, 2006)

Why is it that when guys talk about swagger's mic skill some way or the other, his mic skill is an issue because of his lisp?

While we all know that 2 of the most succesfull guys who made it because of their mic skill are 2 guys with a lisp that's way worse then Swagger's lisp. I'm talking about Flair and The American Dream.

I just don't get it, why is it accepted coming from one guy and not accepted coming from another.


----------



## chrisis908765 (Jun 14, 2005)

Not on his bandwagon


----------



## Thumbinthebum (Feb 3, 2009)

Cerbs said:


> Yeah, he should definitely avoid the ankle lock. He gets compared to Angle enough as it is.


It's funny that most people use make the Angle comparison because I think he'd prefer Dr. Death. He's a fellow Oklahoma native, has the collegiate wrestling background and he's adopted the Oklahoma Stampede and Gutwrench Powerbomb.


----------



## Hiplop (May 12, 2006)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*



Do Your Fcking Job said:


> No, it isnt, at all.
> 
> The IWC is completely fucking obsessed with 'mic skills', like somehow people on here are experts on it. Its annoying as hell.
> 
> ...



that would be because Jeff just oozes charisma, bringing Jeff up is completely irrelevant 

also mic skills are one of the most important things about a wrestler.


----------



## Tattoo Alix (Feb 23, 2010)

The all American blotch fest strikes again. No care ever.


----------



## Mattofla (Feb 16, 2008)

Even if his lisp gets in the way, I enjoyed his attitude. He seems completely different since he won the title, and I like it.


----------



## Jim131 (Apr 29, 2009)

I'm not that dismayed at Swagger getting pushed, it's just a shame it's over Christian really. However I can't say that I'm a fan of the WWE thinking that just by throwing a major title at someone that instantly will get them over. 

I mean I'm all for the WWE pushing new stars and I like what they're doing with Drew and the Intercontinental title, but that's what mid card titles are for. They just run the risk of devaluing their two major titles if they keep this up, whereas pushing someone who's been a solid midcarder for a number of years would, in my opinion be a much more logical choice.


----------



## HoMiCiDaL26 (Jul 20, 2009)

GET ON YOUR KNEES.

Truly hoping he gets a credible reign. Ffs he needs one.


----------



## fuhr86 (Jun 18, 2005)

Lesner won the UFC title a lot quicker then Swagger won his title
Tyson won a title a lot quicker then Swagger won his title 

The reality is, it does not take years to climb the ladder in real sports, so why should it be different with sports entertainment


----------



## Thumbinthebum (Feb 3, 2009)

fuhr86 said:


> Lesner won the UFC title a lot quicker then Swagger won his title
> Tyson won a title a lot quicker then Swagger won his title
> 
> The reality is, it does not take years to climb the ladder in real sports, so why should it be different with sports entertainment


Because it isn't a real sport. Athletic ability isn't what counts in pro-wrestling, the ability to draw money is. Someone as new to the business as Swagger has yet to demonstrate that he can do this and while in the past it was possible to use the title to get someone over qucikly, these days the belts are so devalued that they no longer have that effect.


----------



## P.Smith (Jan 24, 2010)

*Re: Jack Swagger not fit to win the MITB?*

This was the case with everyone in the match. If you want to blame anything blame the amount of people because 10 is too many. As for JackI think he was more involved in the match than any other competitor anyway.


----------



## MuffinMade (Feb 26, 2010)

I'm on the bandwagon, I was spectical before the show but Swagger made me a believer.

The odds on favourite!


----------



## darkyukon (Jul 21, 2008)

I like Jack. I like him better as a champ.

He is natural on the mic. And his lisp gives him an easy traget, so even people who are bad on the mic have something they can "go to" and get a reaction on. Don't discount that. 

Best way I can describ him is he his the WWE's version of Vincent from "The Color of Money". 

"You're an incredible flake. But that's a gift. Guys spend half their lives inventing that. You walk into a poolroom
with that "go, go, go..." guys will be killing each other...trying to get to you."


----------



## truk83 (Jul 22, 2009)

I'm an adult so I can get over the lisp. I don't mind his mic work at all, but I think he needs to rehearse a little more. At times it seems as though he is just "winging" it. However, Swagger has the mic skills, but they haven't reached their potential. Bottom line is the WWE needs to bring back JBL to help pump this fine "American". JBL would be proud of Jack Swagger. Besides Smackdown needs JBL to do commentary.


----------



## TripleG (Dec 8, 2004)

*Re: Jack Swagger not fit to win the MITB?*

I didn't have a problem with him winning Money in the Bank. 

Sure he's been a jobber for about a year, but fine, he gets the big win at Mania. And then on Raw they had him jump Cena to try and cash in only to be chased off. That was great because it told me he's not going to wait for an opportunity to cash in. He's going to make his own opportunity, and they could have definitely done something with that. Use the MITB & the direction that goes along with it to build him up as a credible main eventer until the moment where he finally cashes in and wins the belt. Might work! 

But then they fucked it up by jumping the gun & having him cash in literally two nights later (remember, SD it taped boys & girls!). I mean if you are going to put the World Title on somebody, can we at least enjoy the ride to the top? Can you at least write something that would convince me he deserves to be in that spot? I mean Lesnar got rushed to the top and won the belt in less than 5 months, but I knew it was coming at least. Right before he beat Rock, they showed him destroying Hulk Hogan, which did wonders for his push. I bought Brock Lesnar as a top guy. Jack Swagger I do not, and its not his fault. Hell, all of us (myself included) thought that JBL's push to the top was too sudden. THIS IS EVEN WORSE THAN THAT!!! JBL at least feuded with the champion and targeted him and got his new character over...this is just...RANDOM!!! 

I mean the guy was a directionless fool upon moving to Raw. He lost to Santino for Christ's sake, and in a 3 day span you expect me to believe he's a credible World Champion? Why do I have to fill in the blanks and just go with whatever they say? Shouldn't the WWE come up with good shit? I mean they are the entertainment company after all. WRITE SOMETHING ENTERTAINING!!!! 

But no, now we have a guy that the WWE has conditioned me over a lengthy period of time to not give two shits about and now all of a sudden I'm supposed to care because you've had a very sudden change of heart on the guy? It sucks, and it only damages Swagger.


----------



## sjm33 (Oct 12, 2009)

I just thought of an idea that would probably cause a lot of controversy but I think it would be gold, lol.

Kelly Kelly should be traded to Smackdown or moved there in the next draft since she isn't really doing anything on Raw and she should be paired with Jack Swagger as his valet.

She could just stand there next to him smiling and waving like she usually does while he is giving one of his promos and the boos would probably deafening, lol, if you understand why.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

*Jac Swagger needs a new image?*

Now that he is WHC Swagger definitely needs something that screams champion! Really I could care less about his lisp and anyone making fun of someone with a lisp is just plain immature. But the one thing I realize Swagger just doesn't have that champion look. I think it's time WWE just totally repackages him!

First off his finisher needs to be changed. The gutwrench powerbomb just doesn't cut it. Also his theme music and entrance has to change. Really his theme music screams midcarder for life. I don't know but imo I think he needs a complete overhaul


----------



## JoseBxNYC (Feb 21, 2008)

*Re: Jac Swagger needs a new image?*

Doesn't have a champ look? Gutwrench Powerbomb doesn't cut? Change his theme? The best in WWE today. Your insane!


----------



## Danjo1986 (Jun 7, 2008)

*Re: Jac Swagger needs a new image?*

Looks like they DID change his image though. He has a Kurt Angle look to him now. I hope they stress his college wrestling success more and more. I woudn't mind seeing him do the Boston Crab as one of his finishers (as I do agree that gutwrench sucks). OR itd be cool to see the torture rack come back hah. Call it the Jack Rack or Jack Attack!?


----------



## SAMCRO (Jul 10, 2006)

*Re: Jac Swagger needs a new image?*



sharkboy22 said:


> Now that he is WHC Swagger definitely needs something that screams champion! Really I could care less about his lisp and anyone making fun of someone with a lisp is just plain immature. But the one thing I realize Swagger just doesn't have that champion look. I think it's time WWE just totally repackages him!
> 
> First off his finisher needs to be changed. The gutwrench powerbomb just doesn't cut it. Also his theme music and entrance has to change. Really his theme music screams midcarder for life. I don't know but imo I think he needs a complete overhaul


Are you crazy the gutwrench powerbomb is a great finisher, did'nt you see the vicious gutwrenche's he did to Jericho and Edge that move is one of the best finisher's in wwe right now. The guy that need's a new finisher is Edge the spear just looks so weak.

Swagger's look is fine he's got an amateur wrestling background so the singlet suits his character. I actualy like his entrance now he since he stopped beating his chest like an ape and now ccomes to the ring with a serious attitude.

His theme music is ok they could find a better one for him and i hope they do but for now it's ok.


----------



## rated_y2j11 (Aug 30, 2009)

*Re: Jac Swagger needs a new image?*

I have no problem with him at all. Delighted he won even though I'm a huge Y2J and Edge mark, as my name would suggest lol


----------



## NJ88 (Jan 27, 2009)

*Re: Jac Swagger needs a new image?*

I don't think he needs to change his image at all, he looks legit as a main eventer to me. And his finisher? Come on! The power-bombs awesome! I'd say one of the better finishers for a new guy in the company right now.


----------



## DRAGONKNIGHT (Jun 26, 2007)

*Re: Jac Swagger needs a new image?*

Dude...Swagger is awsome!!! Changing anything about him would just f%@K things up!!!! Glad I'm not the only one who gets a Kurt Angle vibe from him......


----------



## P.Smith (Jan 24, 2010)

*Re: Jac Swagger needs a new image?*

There is a thread in the Smackdown forum concerning everything Swagger. He's that damn good they had to make one!


----------



## just1988 (Jun 15, 2009)

I'm looking forward to see what the WWE do with Swagger and his title run, it will be mighty interesting to see if they will make him look like a credible champion.


----------



## Hypno (Aug 3, 2009)

*Re: Jac Swagger needs a new image?*

Swagger is fine as he is. No need for changes of his image, gutwrench powerbomb is a great finisher, his music is fine and as of this moment he's doing a Jericho like entrance (no taunts).


----------



## SHIRLEY (Jun 9, 2009)

*Re: Jac Swagger needs a new image?*



sharkboy22 said:


> Swagger definitely needs something that screams champion!


Is being a legit wrestler with an extensive amateur background not enough to make him seem difficult to beat?


----------



## Mr Nice Guy (Jun 24, 2008)

*Re: Swagger is worse on the mic than Morrison*



CURRYMAN! said:


> Lol! People just don't get it. He isn't that bad on the mic. He has got great confidence and draws heat really well. Jericho got cheered in front of him ffs after being booed the whole show! People for some reason can't look past the lisp. It is as obvious as day that he plays up the the lisp as it's something hateable and something for the faces to pick at. I mean why do you think they changed his name from Hager to Swagger and why does he use so many words that make his lisp sound worse. He is not amazing but no way is he the worst mic worker.


I would say the worst is Shelton.


----------



## EmVeePee (Oct 22, 2008)

It was a truly epic segment. I loved every second, Swagger drew a godly amount of heat. The Shawn Michaels reference was awesome, and Jericho losing it as soon as he came out.

I can see Swagger having a superb reign if booked correctly.


----------



## Chris22 (Jan 7, 2010)

EmVeePee said:


> It was a truly epic segment. I loved every second, Swagger drew a godly amount of heat. The Shawn Michaels reference was awesome, and Jericho losing it as soon as he came out.
> 
> I can see Swagger having a superb reign if booked correctly.


Let's hope they don't mess his reign up then! I'm hoping for a 3-4 month reign!


----------



## Hypno (Aug 3, 2009)

Jack Swagger has the perfect look of a World Champion in my opinion, he reminds me abit of a young Kurt Angle. His wrestling ability is great, different to most of the roster and I'm hoping he has a nice reign as champion.

His mic skills do need a bit of work, but his mic skills aren't as terrible as many people make out it is.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

*Re: Jac Swagger needs a new image?*



Shirley Crabtree said:


> Is being a legit wrestler with an extensive amateur background not enough to make him seem difficult to beat?


It was enough when he was at the credibility level he came in with, it might not be enough after he's been nobody since last April.


----------



## omaroo (Sep 19, 2006)

i do kinda of take my comment about him back, i always liked him especially on ECW, not so much on RAW, i was pissed off with him beating jericho, and still am. I dont really consider him like angle, maybe his attire and his wrestling but only small things. But ye i wouldnt mind him being a world champ, if he get better on his mic and his doesnt act like an ape anymore. But i prefer him to CENA by far.


----------



## Banjo (Sep 30, 2005)

lol at Jericho getting buried. Jericho/Edge doesn't even warrant another PPV match. it's fitting really

Edge/Swagger or the eventual Undertaker/Swagger matches doesn't appeal to me one bit. I kinda wish Sheamus was in this position instead of Swagger. at least Sheamus has more intensity. Smackdown is doomed. but then, it's always been doomed to be inferior to RAW


----------



## Panzer (May 31, 2007)

I'm guessing my thread got merged with this one so............

ATTENTION!!!!!!!! I'm not advocating Swagger to change his finisher, just to add a submission one alongside his current one.

Wrestlers need more than one way to defeat their opponents. Keep the Gutwrench but add a submission to compliment his amateur background. Is it that hard to understand?


----------



## Ruckus (Mar 30, 2010)

Swagger cashing in on Smackdown and winning the title?

Never saw that coming. No seriously, I didn't.


----------



## nekro (Dec 21, 2009)

Can Swagger do the gutwrench to the bigger guys in the WWE


----------



## Schrute_Farms (Nov 27, 2009)

Swagger as champion lol. Yeah the title means so much these days. So much competition LOL anyone can win a World title all they have to do is cash in their free title win contract and win it.


Total joke that makes everything Jericho and Edge did the last two months seem stupid and pointless.


----------



## MRRSNTNO (Feb 19, 2009)

Pandemic™;8264010 said:


> ATTENTION!!!!!!!! I'm not advocating Swagger to change his finisher, just to add a submission one alongside his current one.
> 
> Wrestlers need more than one way to defeat their opponents. Keep the Gutwrench but add a submission to compliment his amateur background. Is it that hard to understand?


A submission like a Grounded Cobra Clutch with Scissors would be fitting; sorta like Samoa Joe's Rear Naked Choke. Call it the All-American Clutch


----------



## KnowYourRole (Jul 1, 2007)

Does anyone else notice that Swagger never lost his pyro this past year despite him losing. I wonder if that was a way of showing they were eventually going to push him. Vince doesn't just give a pyro entrance to anybody.


----------



## CM12Punk (Aug 9, 2009)

KnowYourRole said:


> Does anyone else notice that Swagger never lost his pyro this past year despite him losing. I wonder if that was a way of showing they were eventually going to push him. Vince doesn't just give a pyro entrance to anybody.


Is that why MVP still has his pyro?


----------



## Rachel Deserved It (Dec 19, 2009)

*Re: Who is back on the Swagger’s bandwaggon?*



SP103 said:


> Seriously? Are you watching the matches or just buying the hype? The guy botches more moves than any wrestler I've seen in the past 10 years.
> 
> He's a trainwreck, and this is his last shot before he gets the pink slip which he should of received after that terrible promo when Christian returned.
> 
> Cena haters chant you can't wrestle... which is slightly correct. But this guy can't fart in the ring without botching it.


Kofi Kingston?


----------



## chinoy316 (Dec 30, 2009)

MRRSNTNO said:


> A submission like a Grounded Cobra Clutch with Scissors would be fitting; sorta like Samoa Joe's Rear Naked Choke. Call it the All-American Clutch


I'm not giving up until someone backs me up on this. The Gorilla Clutch. NO PUN INTENDED.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0cqN0aJkNA


----------



## Menacing Nemesis (Apr 22, 2008)

Anyone else think he's got a sick ass entrance song?


----------



## chinoy316 (Dec 30, 2009)

peepaholic said:


> Because it isn't a real sport. Athletic ability isn't what counts in pro-wrestling, the ability to draw money is. Someone as new to the business as Swagger has yet to demonstrate that he can do this and while in the past it was possible to use the title to get someone over qucikly, these days the belts are so devalued that they no longer have that effect.


See Sheamus. But I agree though, they can't keep this up.



Menacing Nemesis said:


> Anyone else think he's got a sick ass entrance song?


Yeah! But if they take away the push-ups I'm gonna be pissed. The serious stoic heel is too played out. I want more douchebag heels like Batista.


----------



## ronnygreen (May 3, 2009)

Here's the thing, when faces make fun of his lisp I feel a great deal of sympathy for Swagger. The guy can't help it, so it shouldn't be something people like Edge make fun of.
Same as when Morrison was mocking McIntyre's accent. It makes the faces look like ignorant pricks.
But I think Swagger will be a great champion, I really do. I saw him on ECW and pegged him as a future main eventer, he's just got _it_.
That's my opinion anyways.


----------



## Chibi (Mar 28, 2006)

I think its idiotic how people are saying he isnt good on the mic and so doesnt deserve a title.

Benoit was one of the worst mic guys i have ever heard


----------



## fjl2nd (Mar 31, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URUIpqeDcVs

His entrance on Smackdown was so awesome. He's just walking down the ramp and his pyro goes off. Lol.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

I have high expectations for him hwoever people who say he will be the next Kurt Angle are dead wrong... at least not with this gimmick.


----------



## CM Storm18 (Oct 13, 2009)

It wasn't his mic work that turned me off on the Swagger title win. It was the fact that he did nothing to earn it for nearly an entire year. He was either jobbing or not being on TV at all. And of course, winning the MitB where there were obvious better/logical choices.


----------



## Do Your Fcking Job (Feb 9, 2009)

Chibi said:


> I think its idiotic how people are saying he isnt good on the mic and so *doesnt deserve a title*.
> 
> Benoit was one of the worst mic guys i have ever heard


How in anyway can you disagree with that? He doesnt deserve a title.


----------



## Big Dog (Aug 4, 2009)

Sheamus, he technically beat Cena for it which is hard to do since he's the golden child of vince.


----------



## Izual_Rebirth (Feb 20, 2010)

CM Storm18 said:


> It wasn't his mic work that turned me off on the Swagger title win. It was the fact that he did nothing to earn it for nearly an entire year. He was either jobbing or not being on TV at all. And of course, winning the MitB where there were obvious better/logical choices.


Nothing to "earn" it?

I don't understand what you mean. Wrestling is scripted so it's not like he's responsible for winning or losing matches. If anything he has earned it by putting on great matches night after night even though he's been jobbing.


----------



## Destiny (Feb 24, 2008)

Havnt seen anything that makes swagger 'next kurt angle'.

Will be waiting to see how people can even compare.


----------



## Rachel Deserved It (Dec 19, 2009)

Menacing Nemesis said:


> Anyone else think he's got a sick ass entrance song?


Yes. Yes i do.


----------



## Chibi (Mar 28, 2006)

How do you not know his work and matches havent been anything but stellar in house events.

also who fucking cares about his lisp, which i barely notice anyway, and his mic work because of how he sounds.
I was a gaming MC for 4 years, i wasnt good or successful because of how I sounded, i sounded like a brummy. It was because of what i said, how entertaining i was to other games and how i said it.

Shelton Benjamin has truly awful "mic skills" but people demand pushes from him


----------



## soir8 (Jul 17, 2009)

Is anyone else feeling slightly offended by the fact that the Smackdown writing team have now found a way of actually just having a wrestler read from a script during promos?


----------



## Phox Graham (Jan 20, 2009)

Swagger is god


----------



## Phox Graham (Jan 20, 2009)

oh it's true, it's damn ture


----------



## kiss the stick (Sep 6, 2009)

Phox Graham said:


> oh it's true, it's damn ture


ture you say?


----------



## Do Your Fcking Job (Feb 9, 2009)

Anybody who compares Swagger to Angle needs to be shot, now.

Swagger is like Yoshi Tatsu, a comedy character that cant be taken seriously.

He's world champion? Makes no difference, they have long since made him into a laughing stock. Such terrible booking for such a talented guy.

Completely unrealistic world champion, sorry Swagger fans, but its true. No credibility at all.


----------



## ROH Fan #1 (Sep 26, 2006)

Hes an All American. Now I am not very familiar with what this mean but this would imply he is quite well at matt based wrestling (greek style). Hence I can understand the comparisons. However Swagger has a lot to learn. Its good the WWE pulled the trigger on him because he wouldve have looked weaker and weaker along the way of not getting what he could carry. He can carry it, Evan Bourne cannot for example.


----------



## jasonviyavong (Dec 20, 2007)

YES! Jack freaking Swagger 
...Swagger vs. Orton feud please


----------



## instantclassic27 (Aug 25, 2007)

Do Your Fcking Job said:


> Anybody who compares Swagger to Angle needs to be shot, now.
> 
> Swagger is like Yoshi Tatsu, a comedy character that cant be taken seriously.
> 
> ...


His amateur background and size alone give him enough credibility. You forget that when Kurt Angle was in his prime (2000-2002) he was a joke character that was made a laughing stock out of every week, but people knew he was tough. That's how i'm feeling about Swagger at the moment, as long as they don't turn him into serious heel #23 then he can be successful in the main event


----------



## MrWalsh (Feb 21, 2010)

I like how their turning swagger into the next JBL/Kurt angle
Hes not that good on the mic but he has that look so I guess hell end up going far.


----------



## Chibi (Mar 28, 2006)

instantclassic27 said:


> His amateur background and size alone give him enough credibility. You forget that when Kurt Angle was in his prime (2000-2002) he was a joke character that was made a laughing stock out of every week, but people knew he was tough. That's how i'm feeling about Swagger at the moment, as long as they don't turn him into serious heel #23 then he can be successful in the main event


well done this man


----------



## ronnygreen (May 3, 2009)

Don't you agree that the faces should lay off his lisp and not use it for a cheap pop?


----------



## Gin (Apr 11, 2008)

ronnygreen said:


> Don't you agree that the faces should lay off his lisp and not use it for a cheap pop?


Nah. He has it, so why should't they make fun of it? The guy can still whoop their asses in retaliation.


----------



## ronnygreen (May 3, 2009)

But it makes the faces look immature and mean-spirited. How can you cheer for a guy who's getting a kick out of mocking someone with a speech impediment? It's like cheering John Cena whilst he kicks a kitten to death.


----------



## Quasi Juice (Apr 3, 2006)

Do Your Fcking Job said:


> Anybody who compares Swagger to Angle needs to be shot, now.
> 
> Swagger is like Yoshi Tatsu, a comedy character that cant be taken seriously.
> 
> ...


Give him one month, if he beats Edge and Jericho at Extreme Rules, nobody will remember he lost to Santino months ago. People have shitty memories and beating the likes of Jericho and Edge can do wonders.


----------



## Brandenthesmark (Mar 19, 2010)

I see people talking about his Mic skills but they aren't that bad he just has a lisp after a while everyone will get used to it and he also has the look of a Main-Eventer


----------



## CC91 (Jan 7, 2008)

Did anyone notice Jericho laughed halfway through his promo with Swagger? Was it intentional?


----------



## Legendary Ora (Apr 23, 2005)

I like what they've done with him so far.
As "bad" as he is on the mic, he gets legitimate heat from it. MUCH better than guys like Morrison who get no reaction. Which is a lot worst.

I enjoyed what they did with him backstage walking around like he's all that.


----------



## ronnygreen (May 3, 2009)

Yeah, because he couldn't believe that he had lost the title so quickly. He was completely bewildered.


----------



## Gin (Apr 11, 2008)

CC91 said:


> Did anyone notice Jericho laughed halfway through his promo with Swagger? Was it intentional?


He laughed after screaming at Cole and Matthews at nXt two weeks ago, too. So, I guess not.


----------



## NJ88 (Jan 27, 2009)

I think the fact that they've intentionally changed Swaggers character into something more serious shows that they're hoping for big things from him. They wanted to put him over as a legit main eventer with a lot of screen time, so I think he could be in for a more dominant reign.

If you think about it like this, the RAW after Sheamus won the title, he appeared in one segment, that was only accepting a slammy, Swagger appeared at the start, three times during the night, then ended up with another segment and finished the night on top...


----------



## Thumpa (Mar 14, 2010)

I personally think Swagger is funny on the mic, he seems quite comfortable but dorky sounding, WWE is missing someone like this at the moment. I hope he gets a good reign and loads more mic time, he'll be funny if you give him a chance!


----------



## InstantClassik (Dec 15, 2008)

He needs to work on his deliverance on the mic, the lisp could work for him as a heel give the crowd something to tease draw heat.
i think that swagger has the ability in the ring to be able to give us decent matches with big people like Batista


----------



## Melinafan (Aug 27, 2007)

I really enjoy swagger ATM, I think he's decent on the mic and i think it will get better. His in ring ability is pretty amazing. And i find his lisp interesting, and i think it could be his edge when it comes to talking.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

ronnygreen said:


> But it makes the faces look immature and mean-spirited. How can you cheer for a guy who's getting a kick out of mocking someone with a speech impediment? It's like cheering John Cena whilst he kicks a kitten to death.


Don't take what they mock about their opponents so seriously. This is the same company where the fans used to cheer for a guy who humiliated the interviewers by screaming in their faces and calling them candy asses and hermaphrodites.


----------



## Jerichaholic4life (Jun 29, 2008)

Do people not understand that Angle's gimmick was supposed to be goofy, whereas Swagger is just unintentionally goofy.

Honestly, it's painfully obvious they're going for the serious World champ, so how on earth is Swagger made to look goofy in a good way that will make him gain credibility. The reason he comes off goofy is because he is actually goofy yet people on here play it off like it's a good thing, despite him attempting to be completely serious.

That just proves the point that Swagger hasn't got a very convincing serious character.


----------



## KiNgoFKiNgS23 (Feb 13, 2008)

^^^^he has been a goofy heel his whole career except for this weeks sd. he isn't unintentionally goofy.


----------



## ultimatekrang (Mar 21, 2009)

swaggers run is already way ahead of sheamus's.


----------



## im back babes (Apr 8, 2009)

The lisp works for him when he talks in one specific tone that I heard once. He sounded badass.


----------



## -SAW- (Feb 29, 2004)

Pyro™ said:


> Don't take what they mock about their opponents so seriously. This is the same company where the fans used to cheer for a guy who humiliated the interviewers by screaming in their faces and calling them candy asses and hermaphrodites.


lol Kevin Kelly much?


----------



## HoMiCiDaL26 (Jul 20, 2009)

Can't wait to see what they do with him in the coming weeks. Really hoping he doesn't lose the belt any time soon.


----------



## Thumpa (Mar 14, 2010)

KiNgoFKiNgS23 said:


> ^^^^he has been a goofy heel his whole career except for this weeks sd. he isn't unintentionally goofy.


Yeah exactly!


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

swagger on friday as far worse tan morrison i wanted to cut my ears off


----------



## Quasi Juice (Apr 3, 2006)

ultimatekrang said:


> swaggers run is already way ahead of sheamus's.


Even though Swagger won the belt by "beating" a broken Jericho, while Sheamus actually beat Cena.....


----------



## Pittsburgh (Jan 14, 2009)

Jethro said:


> Even though Swagger won the belt by "beating" a broken Jericho, while Sheamus actually beat Cena.....


Yes. As someone pointed out on the last page : Swagger won the belt at the beginning of the show, taking out the top two players on Smackdown, went on to appear 3 more times during the same night, got a couple of minutes to talk near the end, and finished the taping looking as legit as they come. Sheamus on the other hand, has won the title by just as big of a "fluke", then appeared ony for a minute or so the next RAW. Who's more serious now?


----------



## The Governer (Oct 7, 2009)

What the WWE really need to do with Swagger is let him run with the belt. Swagger clearly has great potential, and if he gains confidence on the mic and loses the chest beating, push upping entrance...you really cant fault his character. He has great in ring talent, the "look" and the theme music of a main eventer. Let the boy show us what he can do.


----------



## PowPow (Jun 6, 2009)

Do Your Fcking Job said:


> Anybody who compares Swagger to Angle needs to be shot, now.
> 
> Swagger is like Yoshi Tatsu, a comedy character that cant be taken seriously.
> 
> ...


How can a legit 6'6 260 pounder with a distinguished amateur background and former ECW champ not be a credible champion?


----------



## Evo (May 12, 2003)

How? Internet perception, that's how. People make up their minds about a person and REFUSE to change it. It's so fucking stupid, yet people on here do it all the time.

Other examples? Sheamus having no mic ability/getting no heat, John Cena being a bad wrestler, and Vince McMahon being a complete moron who doesn't know what he's doing. I mean, _really_.


----------



## murder (Aug 24, 2006)

PowPow said:


> How can a legit 6'6 260 pounder with a distinguished amateur background and former ECW champ not be a credible champion?


Agreed 100%! If all this was real nobody (except maybe Shelton) would stand a chance against Jack Swagger in a wrestling match. If this guy is not credible then who is?!


----------



## RATED R RULES (May 27, 2007)

I'm happy with Swagger. No problem with him.

I guess I'm just bitter but I feel if things played out the excact same way except it being Christian that won MITB. Imagine Christian/Edge/Jericho fued. Think of the history and talent. That would be so awesome.


----------



## Lithalan (Apr 30, 2009)

Swagger walking around in the back showing off the belt made his run immediately better than Sheamus' run. Swagger can wrestle, and he's decent on the mic. I hope he keeps the belt for a lot longer than expected, at least past Extreme Rules.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

PowPow said:


> How can a legit 6'6 260 pounder with a distinguished amateur background and former ECW champ not be a credible champion?


.....cause some random guy on the internet says so ?


----------



## MrCriminal (Sep 23, 2009)

bme said:


> .....cause some random guy on the internet says so ?


and not to mention that swagger is taller than guys like cm punk and angle
Also bigger than guys like christain


----------



## nzedgehead (Jan 22, 2009)

Swagger is physically legit* but character wise I thought this was a disaster.

Mic skills are just terrible (and no I don't buy the argument that he's doing it deliberately as a heel tactic, that's a mid-card gimmick anyway). Seemed completely out of his depth sharing the ring with Jericho and Edge at the end. What's the upside now? He's already pulled the only trick he had to get a reaction. Unless he's been hiding an actual character away for the last year he's got nothing left in the arsenal. What kind of promos is he going to have with Edge? This will pull everyone down rather than raising him up.

Seems like this push is all based around WWE wanting to pull a surprise, but it has no legs. I predict they pull the plug on this one pretty quickly when they realise it's not working.




* although lags behind Sheamus in this still who just seems threatening at least.


----------



## tajmagick (Apr 5, 2010)

I think Swagger is a decent wrestler but is irritating and charmless on the mic. I don't think he is established as a solid mid-carder yet as just a few months ago he had a mini-feud with Santino Marella who is a comedy jobber. His last meaningful push was in the old ECW but since coming to raw he has done nothing meaningful. With zero build-up, he wins MITB and all of a sudden is champion. I have to think that WWE originally intended for someone like Christian or McIntyre to win the title but changed their mind at the last minute. At least he's lost that goofy smile though!


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

PowPow said:


> How can a legit 6'6 260 pounder with a distinguished amateur background and former ECW champ not be a credible champion?


Because it's not real.

Swagger can be a credible champion, but like he said, Swagger's been used like shit for the better part of the last year. Most of the time, he didn't even make it onto the Raw shows and just like that he's world champion? And when he did make it, he got humiliated most of the time. Remember that undefeated streak? I won't lose for the rest of the year, he said. He beat 2 or 3 guys and then he lost the streak, I think to Evan Bourne, of all people. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty that's who he lost it to. He got on Miz's Survivor Series team and was basically tossed away in that, just like Ziggler while Miz, Sheamus and Mcintyre looked really good. Then he had that thing where Santino tossed his ass out of the ring in that Royal Rumble challenge match, whatever it was, and that was really...when that happened, I figured he was gonna be buried for the forseeable future, a long time. 

At least with MITB though, it makes more sense because MITB is such a free for all that since any random person can win it, then any random person can become champion when the former champion gets beat up. If he had become champion like Sheamus though then it would've been REALLY ridiculous. Still, I don't buy how he's the champion. Swagger was VERY credible on ECW, and if he had kept that level while he was on Raw, if he had continued to win most of his matches, if he had maybe won the US title, if he looked good and THEN he won MITB, and won the title, then I would've believed it. This cash in, however just seemed like it happened because WWE wanted to throw another surprise, as well as just quickly dispose of the MITB because of the MITB PPV coming up. They're going to have to work at making him credible, because him being world champion after the year that he's had on Raw is just.....unbelievable.


----------



## Nolo King (Aug 22, 2006)

Nolo King is baffled at Jack Swagger being champion but there may be potential!

A manager is not needed, they just need to teach Jack Swagger to be less goofy and do things to make the guy look more intimidating, a costume change for one is needed as the man is much too slender to have a singlet and the guy should stand up straight in an imposing fashion!

Jack Swagger has a type of lone gimmick, giving the guy a manager would take away from that, lawls!


----------



## The+King_of_Kings (Sep 11, 2007)

I think Swagger wil have a JBL type run where he keeps the title for a long time, maybe not as long, and retains through dodgey fashion all the time. This will give him heat and the lenght will give him time to become a credible top heel. The fact that he can put on top matches is good and his mic skills are decent (not as bad as some make out). He does need to be more serious to try and erase his run on Raw.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

All those months people kept saying Swagger was finished in WWE and all those months I kept saying that they were instituting tough love on him to make him committed to the company 100%, and that his push would begin the moment WrestleMania concluded. Turns out, it began during WrestleMania. In any case, I was right. (Proceeds to pat himself on back.) I agree with King of Kings above me--I think Swagger's going to have a long run with the belt, ala JBL. I could see him handpicking jobbers to defend the title against to get huge heat as an "unworthy champion."


----------



## Morrison Follower (May 5, 2009)

Swagger's been moved to the SD roster.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

I don't see why anyone thinks Swagger is getting a JBL run.

For starters, we don't get long reigns anymore. The belts change hands every 5 minutes. Back when JBL was champion, long reigns were common. Triple H had a really long run with the WHC in 2003, then JBL had a really long reign with the WWE title, then Cena and Batista both had a really long reign with the WWE title and WHC. In fact, every one of those reigns were 280 days except Batista's which was 282, so they basically had that happening all the time. 

Plus, in JBL's case they needed a top heel because Brock Lesnar left. They don't need Swagger to be the top heel, they have Chris Jericho and they have CM Punk, not to mention, when the draft comes along (this month), they could get a big heel from Raw like Sheamus, or they could get Batista back, or they could even have Edge turn heel again. They have so many people to choose from that are ahead of Swagger on the pecking order that I can't see Swagger being put on top for very long. Not to mention, when the MITB PPV comes along, they could have Miz win it and go to SmackDown! and he would totally be put ahead of Swagger with all the heat that he gets.

There's just too much title switching for this idea to seem reasonable.


----------



## TheBrahmaBull (Jun 27, 2008)

I think morrison Deserves the title more than Swagger wtf but its kinda cool he can be formed into a decent main eventer its just that fucking lisp that i cannot get over


----------



## kiss the stick (Sep 6, 2009)

Sheamus - 23.08%
Jack -	76.92%

Flawless victory


----------



## CM Storm18 (Oct 13, 2009)

Though flawless means perfect lol.

Swagger lost to Orton. Dude shoulda never went to RAW lol. I hope his reign is cut short, like, Extreme Rules short. He's so terrible.


----------



## Magic (Feb 28, 2009)

Sheamus beat Cena and Orton in his 2 month reign, the only way Swagger can outdo that is if he beats Taker, clean, otherwise his reign won't be even close to as good. I still dislike both of them and think it was way to early for either of them to win the titles and especially because they didn't get any build up.


----------



## Dark Kent (Feb 18, 2008)

UnDeFeatedKing said:


> Sheamus beat Cena and Orton in his 2 month reign, the only way Swagger can outdo that is if he beats Taker, clean, otherwise his reign won't be even close to as good. I still dislike both of them and think it was way to early for either of them to win the titles and especially because they didn't get any build up.


Cena fell off the turnbuckle and Orton was DQ'ed because of Rhodes. All Swagger has to do is actually PIN a main eventer and his run will be more successful than Shame-us...


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

Cena may have fallen or been pushed off the turnbuckle, in a way where it was easy for Sheamus to win the title, but at least Sheamus was in a REAL match with John Cena at 100%. The way Swagger won the title....I swear to you, Funaki could've done the same thing, he really could have. And even though I think he should've had more build, because that's the entire purpose of the MITB, that since any random person can win it, then any random person can become champion, it's ok booking to a point, even though I definately felt like he should've been credible before he cashed in. Still, I don't see how anyone can bash the way Sheamus won the title and not bash the way Swagger won it, considering that Sheamus at least did it on his OWN. Convenient circumstances, yes, but the same thing applies to Swagger.

And yeah, if Swagger pins a genuine main eventer then his run may be considered better, but as of now, that hasn't happened and even though it wasn't in his title run, Sheamus DOES have a victory over Randy Orton. A real, pinfall victory. A tag match, but he still does. Swagger has been beaten by Randy Orton TWICE in the past week, on the other hand.


----------



## Dark Kent (Feb 18, 2008)

Pyro™ said:


> Cena may have fallen or been pushed off the turnbuckle, in a way where it was easy for Sheamus to win the title, but at least Sheamus was in a REAL match with John Cena at 100%. The way Swagger won the title....I swear to you, Funaki could've done the same thing, he really could have. And even though I think he should've had more build, because that's the entire purpose of the MITB, that since any random person can win it, then any random person can become champion, it's ok booking to a point, even though I definately felt like he should've been credible before he cashed in. Still, I don't see how anyone can bash the way Sheamus won the title and not bash the way Swagger won it, considering that Sheamus at least did it on his OWN. Convenient circumstances, yes, but the same thing applies to Swagger.
> 
> And yeah, if Swagger pins a genuine main eventer then his run may be considered better, but as of now, that hasn't happened and even though it wasn't in his title run, Sheamus DOES have a victory over Randy Orton. A real, pinfall victory. A tag match, but he still does. Swagger has been beaten by Randy Orton TWICE in the past week, on the other hand.


I feel what you saying bro and trust me I was also one of the main ones bashing the Swagger win. I don't understand how you go from jobbing to Bourne and Santino to pinning Jericho and winning the world title. I also don't understand how the hell you go from "retiring" Jamie Noble to winning the WWE championship with a fluke win like that. It just baffles me. Yeah Sheamus pinned Orton...the first pin on a ME that he's gotten, still doesn't change my views on him at all, but I will give him that. Swagger on the other hand, no comment...at least Sheamus never got pinned as champion...


----------



## CM Storm18 (Oct 13, 2009)

Sheamus: Won WWE title on PPV against Cena and was featured on RAW. Much bigger deals then the World title and SD!
Swagger: Won the world title on SD! against an injured Jericho after failing the cash in on Cena on RAW. Makes everyone look bad really... except Cena.

Sheamus: Was never pinned as Champion until he lost it at EC.
Swagger: Was pinned by Orton before and after becoming champion.

Sheamus: Never jobbed. Was on TV nearly all the time before becoming champion.
Swagger: Always jobbed, was barely on TV ever before becoming champion.

Sheamus: Looked good against HHH at WrestleMania in a 1 on 1 match, Sheamus looked like he could win.
Swagger: Looked good against HHH on RAW before getting pinned. Everyone knew HHH was going to win anyways.

Sheamus: In a heated feud with HHH atm. Attacked him during his speech to HBK.
Swagger: No real role, got pinned again.

If people started doing stuff like this ^ Rather then going SWAGGER! Then I could see where they're coming from. Atm, Sheamus >>>>> Swagger. And it isn't even fair.


----------



## MEM Member 4Life (May 11, 2009)

I don't think that Swagger will just be a transitory champ! I like him a lot and I was pretty pissed when he was wasted on RAW! Hopefully they let him develop his character as champion, because he realy can go in the ring!


----------



## antoine (Feb 7, 2005)

i say Sheamus


----------



## ßen1 (Oct 11, 2009)

It looks like him and Orton are going to develop a feud. One of them moved via draft I guess?


----------



## HoMiCiDaL26 (Jul 20, 2009)

Why did the WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION get pinned CLEANLY on RAW? Seriously...


----------



## jdsricks (Mar 1, 2010)

This is how WWE builds a 'New' WHC? Have Cena come to the ring in the opening promo and tell him he doesn't deserve to be champ (that is great). Have him get RKO'd in the same opening segment (where Cena was too smart to get it). Then, have him lose (cleanly) in the main event. These things don't make sense in his first week of being champ. You have to build him at least a little, alot of people didn't think he should have gotten the spot to begin with. So now, they have made it almost impossible to take him seriously as champ. Good job WWE.


----------



## The Boy Wonder (Mar 29, 2008)

HoMiCiDaL26 said:


> Why did the WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION get pinned CLEANLY on RAW? Seriously...


It's simple: they wanted to show the whole WWE Universe that planet RAW was so much better then that minuscule planet known as Smackdown. 

Look at what they did with Swagger while he was on RAW: NOTHING. It pisses me off that he went to RAW and now Smackdown without every be put over by the top faces, let alone feuding with them. 

If WWE is going to treat Smackdown like this I would prefer if they didn't bring Smackdown guys on RAW. Do we need to go back and remember how fast CM Punked tapped out to Cena a few months ago? 

I used to like both RAW and SD but I'm absolutely disgusted with so many things on RAW.


----------



## CM12Punk (Aug 9, 2009)

Yes because it makes sense to beat Orton clean, without the momentum Orton is having...


----------



## youngb11 (Feb 15, 2009)

The Boy Wonder said:


> It's simple: they wanted to show the whole WWE Universe that planet RAW was so much better then that minuscule planet known as Smackdown.
> 
> Look at what they did with Swagger while he was on RAW: NOTHING. It pisses me off that he went to RAW and now Smackdown without every be put over by the top faces, let alone feuding with them.
> 
> ...


So you want the guy who's fresh off a Wrestlemania victory and the guy who already pinned Swagger last week to suddenly loose to him this week just because he beat an already week and speared Jericho for the title?


----------



## NJ88 (Jan 27, 2009)

So one loss to one of the biggest stars in the company and he's doing terribly?

I'd like to think that they're building a feud between Orton and Swagger for when one of them gets drafted (probably Orton), that way, the booking would make sense. It's not like he jobbed to Orton completely or just got squashed by him, it was a competitive match in which Swagger looked like he could win. He got A LOT of offense in too.


----------



## Target 02 (Sep 11, 2007)

You don't make your World Champ lose clean on a weekly show. It makes him look weak. The last time I saw a Champ be pinned "clean" was when Randy Orton got put in the gauntlet back many months ago. And that had a reason for being beaten. Swagger? None whatsoever.


----------



## The_Jiz (Jun 1, 2006)

The Mr. MITB title is as prestigious as a world title. 

Qualifying into the MITB match is a hassle. And after you have to go through 9 other guys in a ladder match to get the contract. 

Swagger got his cred through that.


----------



## ADAMRKO (Dec 7, 2006)

I always liked Jack kinda thought he was never used right until now, but the burry on RAW last night was kinda lame.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

The MITB title means nothing in and of itself. By that logic, Kennedy losing the contract meant nothing because the contract is as important as the belt.


----------



## Chris22 (Jan 7, 2010)

Swagger was not 'jobbed out' or 'squashed'. No way. As already said, it was a competitive match in which Swagger lost the one of the biggest stars in the company, Swagger looked really good and the match was great. I'm looking forward to a Swagger/Orton feud if Orton gets drafted, i just feel they seemed to click.


----------



## ßen1 (Oct 11, 2009)

Chris22 said:


> Swagger was not 'jobbed out' or 'squashed'. No way. As already said, it was a competitive match in which Swagger lost the one of the biggest stars in the company, Swagger looked really good and the match was great. I'm looking forward to a Swagger/Orton feud if Orton gets drafted, i just feel they seemed to click.


I doubt any of the people complaining actually saw the match, just wanted the ending that suits them.


----------



## The_Jiz (Jun 1, 2006)

Pyro™ said:


> The MITB title means nothing in and of itself. By that logic, Kennedy losing the contract meant nothing because the contract is as important as the belt.


Still certainly better than an IC/US/tag title.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

None of them mean anything.


----------



## SKT T1 Blank (Mar 10, 2008)

Pyro™ said:


> None of them mean anything.


The US title helped somewhat elevate Kofi, despite his push ended up being dropped.
The US and Unified Tag Titles are adding on to The Miz's character and he's actually gaining a lot from holding them.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

Great.

These titles might be able to develop momentum for someone, but just because a title gives somebody momentum doesn't mean that holding it is a worthwhile accomplishment. They're tiny, miniscule accomplishments at best. The world titles are ultimately the only championships that really have any value. That's why I'm pretty sure I've never seen anyone mark when their favourite wrestler wins a midcard title, it's almost too easy.


----------



## The_Jiz (Jun 1, 2006)

People sure do mark over the MITB winners. 

WWE has spent a helluva a lot more tv time on the MITB contract than all the undercard titles combined and they do it at mania of all shows. 

My point is attaining the MITB case is a big accomplishment. It's no easy task.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

They mark at the MITB winners because that means they're going to win the world title (in every case but the 1 time a MITB winner got injured), not because they're holding a contract.

It's only a big accomplishment if the person is successful. Winning and then failing doesn't do anything for you.


----------



## SKT T1 Blank (Mar 10, 2008)

Pyro™ said:


> Great.
> 
> These titles might be able to develop momentum for someone, but just because a title gives somebody momentum doesn't mean that holding it is a worthwhile accomplishment. They're tiny, miniscule accomplishments at best. The world titles are ultimately the only championships that really have any value. That's why I'm pretty sure I've never seen anyone mark when their favourite wrestler wins a midcard title, it's almost too easy.


I marked out for Van Dam beating Benji for the IC title?
I marked out for the IC title matches between Jeff Hardy and Johnny Nitro?
I marked out when The Miz won the US title?

I think it's only you, you really need to decrease your negativity level lol.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

Ok, fine, so you think settling for mediocrity is ok, I don't.


----------



## FlyinStyles (Jul 9, 2009)

I'm not a fan of Swagger as Champ. It's too son, not only for Swagger but it was too soon for the plug to be pulled on Edge and Jericho. That feud still had life, it was actaully just getting good, and they ended it for Swagger who really wasn't properly built? He lost to Santino two months ago, they could've build him with the case then gave him the title in the Summer after Edge and Jericho was done and maybe after Edge one more feud as champion. I think it's a little too soon and on Smackdown he's really riding on the Edge-Jericho feud waiting for Orton to be drafted over.


----------



## SKT T1 Blank (Mar 10, 2008)

Pyro™ said:


> Ok, fine, so you think settling for mediocrity is ok, I don't.


It helps keep seperation between Main Eventers, Midcarders and Jobbers. It's also a stepping stone that can help elevate a superstar to the titles that you say do have prestige (WWE & World title).


----------



## Dark Kent (Feb 18, 2008)

It's not settling for mediocrity bro. It's just watching your favorite wrestler achieve something like winning the IC title then of course you're gonna mark out. I understand the world title is the ultimate goal but there's nothing with be happy to see someone reach a new level...


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

> It helps keep seperation between Main Eventers, Midcarders and Jobbers. It's also a stepping stone that can help elevate a superstar to the titles that you say do have prestige (WWE & World title).


Thanks for the history lesson, I know what it is.



TheGreatOne2735 said:


> It's not settling for mediocrity bro. It's just watching your favorite wrestler achieve something like winning the IC title then of course you're gonna mark out. I understand the world title is the ultimate goal but there's nothing with be happy to see someone reach a new level...


Sure it is. Midcard = mediocre... the word midcard even uses most of the same letters. ~_~ There's no point in caring about secondary championships, they're not special. When was the last time you saw somebody win a midcard title and went "wow, they just made it big"?


----------



## FlyinStyles (Jul 9, 2009)

Pyro™ said:


> Thanks for the history lesson, I know what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure it is. Midcard = mediocre... the word midcard even uses most of the same letters. ~_~ There's no point in caring about secondary championships, they're not special. *When was the last time you saw somebody win a midcard title and went "wow, they just made it big"?*


When Miz won the US Title, I thought his time had finally come to be a big star.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

FlyinStyles said:


> When Miz won the US Title, I thought his time had finally come to be a big star.


That's great, but his time will come when he cashes in MITB and wins the world title. He controls 2 of Raw's 3 divisions and yet he'll get squashed by any main eventer, that's how important midcard titles are.


----------



## SKT T1 Blank (Mar 10, 2008)

When John Cena captured the United States title off The Big Show at Wrestlemania as well.


----------



## Dark Kent (Feb 18, 2008)

Pyro™ said:


> Sure it is. Midcard = mediocre... the word midcard even uses most of the same letters. ~_~ There's no point in caring about secondary championships, they're not special. When was the last time you saw somebody win a midcard title and went "wow, they just made it big"?


It's a stepping stone man...nobody is saying that they're in the big times if they win it, they're seeing it as a step closer to the WWE/World title. Nobody is waking up one morning and saying my ultimate dream is to be the US champion, of course not. But not everybody can just be pushed to the ME. That's what the midcard is for. So true it's not the main goal for anybody, it's still an achievement and stepping stone in itself to the WWE/World Title.


----------



## FlyinStyles (Jul 9, 2009)

Pyro™;8280499 said:


> That's great, but his time will come when he cashes in MITB and wins the world title. He controls 2 of Raw's 3 divisions and yet he'll get squashed by any main eventer, that's how important midcard titles are.


Ok but would he be where he is without the US Title and Unifed Tag Team Titles, he really started to shine in my mind once he one the US Title, spefically his feud with MVP, he was always good, but he really became great when he won the US Title. I honestly don't think he'd be where he is now with out hte title. The fact that he's in the main event is enough says more about what that's done for him then the fact that he loses, which he usaully doesn't on Raw.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

TheGreatOne2735 said:


> It's a stepping stone man...nobody is saying that they're in the big times if they win it, they're seeing it as a step closer to the WWE/World title. Nobody is waking up one morning and saying my ultimate dream is to be the US champion, of course not. But not everybody can just be pushed to the ME. That's what the midcard is for. So true it's not the main goal for anybody, it's still an achievement and stepping stone in itself to the WWE/World Title.


You just proved why it doesn't mean anything. It's just a stepping stone, the only point in holding it is to get closer to the world title. It doesn't have value of it's own, it's secondary. Throwaway.


----------



## Dark Kent (Feb 18, 2008)

Pyro™ said:


> You just proved why it doesn't mean anything. It's just a stepping stone, the only point in holding it is to get closer to the world title. It doesn't have value of it's own, it's secondary. Throwaway.


So what you're saying is that that they should just get rid of those belts and just have everybody fight over the WWE/World titles??


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

Why would I get rid of them when they don't mean anything to begin with? It wouldn't accomplish anything.

They have their purpose, I get it. The purpose of a midcard belt is to be a stepping stone to the world title, and to give people something to fight over. That still doesn't mean that it's a worthwhile thing to achieve. World titles actually have value, if you win it, it's a big deal. It's not a big deal if you win a midcard title.....ever.


----------



## FlyinStyles (Jul 9, 2009)

Pyro™ said:


> Why would I get rid of them when they don't mean anything to begin with?
> 
> The only purpose of a midcard belt is to be a stepping stone to the world title, and to give people something to fight over. That's it. World titles actually have value, if you win it, it's a big deal. It's not a big deal if you win a midcard title.....ever.


A stepping stone is a good purpose, not everyone can go to the main event right away, being a midcard champion gives guys chances to establish themselves as they climb up to the main event. The US title did wonders for Kofi and Miz.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

FlyinStyles said:


> A stepping stone is a good purpose, not everyone can go to the main event right away, being a midcard champion gives guys chances to establish themselves as they climb up to the main event. The US title did wonders for Kofi and Miz.


I KNOW that. I'm not saying you shouldn't use the titles as stepping stones, I'm saying that if somebody retires and the biggest thing they've ever achieved is being IC/US/ECW/Tag Team champion, they didn't achieve anything.


----------



## Dark Kent (Feb 18, 2008)

Pyro™ said:


> Why would I get rid of them when they don't mean anything to begin with?
> 
> They have their purpose, I get it. The purpose of a midcard belt is to be a stepping stone to the world title, and to give people something to fight over. That still doesn't mean that it's a worthwhile thing to achieve. World titles actually have value, if you win it, it's a big deal. It's not a big deal if you win a midcard title.....ever.


lol there's still nothing wrong with marking out for them winning it. I know you're gonna disagree or whatever but when Miz won the tag team titles I said that he just solidified himself as a star...he's walking around the company with 3 belts...something nobody in this era has done...


----------



## SKT T1 Blank (Mar 10, 2008)

Okay, how about those people that will never achieve a World Title or a WWE Title? The one's who don't have the whole package or just aren't on WWE's high list? People currently like MVP and Benjamin who have held the titles, that's their all time high accomplishments.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

TheGreatOne2735 said:


> lol there's still nothing wrong with marking out for them winning it. I know you're gonna disagree or whatever but when Miz won the tag team titles I said that he just solidified himself as a star...he's walking around the company with 3 belts...something nobody in this era has done...


You can mark out for somebody winning a midcard title if you want, I won't. I've never been able to accept anything less than #1.

If you actually think Miz is a star because he has 3 belts though, then I REALLY don't know why you still complain about Christian's status even though he's the longest reigning champion in new ECW history, has won 3 IC titles and 9 tag titles.



> Okay, how about those people that will never achieve a World Title or a WWE Title? The one's who don't have the whole package or just aren't on WWE's high list? People currently like MVP and Benjamin who have held the titles, that's their all time high accomplishments.


What about them? ~_~


----------



## SKT T1 Blank (Mar 10, 2008)

Clearly the title means something to those guys.


----------



## FlyinStyles (Jul 9, 2009)

Pyro™ said:


> You can mark out for somebody winning a midcard title if you want, I won't. I've never been able to accept anything less than #1.
> 
> If you actually think Miz is a star because he has 3 belts though, then I REALLY don't know why you still complain about Christian's status even though he's the longest reigning champion in new ECW history, has won 3 IC titles and 9 tag titles.


Because Christian has been there for years and is one of the best if not the best preformers in the WWE and should be a World Champion. Miz will be a world champion it's obvious he will, the fact they trust him with three belts solidifies that he will be a world champion. Christian deserves to way higher then he is that's why people have problems with it. 

Only having midcard titles despite being in the company for ten years and being massively talented is bad. That's why people get pissed over that. Miz has been in WWE for three years and a singles competitor for one year. That's why it's fine for him but not for Christian because of where he is in his career


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

> Clearly the title means something to those guys.


Only because they'll never win a world title, so they're trying to feel good about their career by valuing something without value.



> Because Christian has been there for years and is one of the best if not the best preformers in the WWE and should be a World Champion. Miz will be a world champion it's obvious he will, the fact they trust him with three belts solidifies that he will be a world champion. Christian deserves to way higher then he is that's why people have problems with it.
> 
> Only having midcard titles despite being in the company for ten years and being massively talented is bad. That's why people get pissed over that. Miz has been in WWE for three years and a singles competitor for one year. That's why it's fine for him but not for Christian because of where he is in his career


I know all of that, and you just proved my point. Midcard titles do NOT mean anything.


----------



## Dark Kent (Feb 18, 2008)

Pyro™ said:


> You can mark out for somebody winning a midcard title if you want, I won't. I've never been able to accept anything less than #1.
> 
> If you actually think Miz is a star because he has 3 belts though, then I REALLY don't know why you still complain about Christian's status even though he's the longest reigning champion in new ECW history, has won 3 IC titles and 12 or 13 tag titles.


Why I still complain??? Dude you're the No.1 damn person who's been complaining on here about it!! 

And also I fail to make the comparison about considering Miz is on his way to a future world title while Christian has been overdue for one for 5 years running and has no hopes in winning one. 

You don't have to be a world champion to achieve star status. Stone Cold was a star before he got his first title. The Rock was a star when he got his first title. Cena was a star before he won the world title. Same thing goes for HBK, HHH, Randy Orton, Batista, and so on.


----------



## SKT T1 Blank (Mar 10, 2008)

Pyro™ said:


> Only because they'll never win a world title, so they're trying to feel good about their career by valuing something without value.
> 
> 
> 
> I know all of that, and you just proved my point. Midcard titles do NOT mean anything.


They do mean something. They mean something to the wrestlers who will never be in the Main Event but still have the opportunity to know how it feels to hold singles championship gold. Also, doesn't a good championship reign with storyline progression and good matches add prestige to the title? Nigel McGuinness used the midcard belt known as the ROH Pure title and established it as a major title in pro wrestling and had it compared to the likes of the World title.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

TheGreatOne2735 said:


> Why I still complain??? Dude you're the No.1 damn person who's been complaining on here about it!!


I know, but I complain because his career has completely failed and no title he's ever won has meant anything (with the exception of the NWA title.....which didn't even mean anything WHEN he won it). I'm just saying, if you accept Miz as a star solely on midcard title wins, then I don't know why you're complaining about Christian. I don't think Miz is a star at all. He's only starting to get there, and he'll only get there when he wins the world title.


----------



## SKT T1 Blank (Mar 10, 2008)

Pyro™ said:


> I know, but I complain because his career has completely failed and no title he's ever won has meant anything (with the exception of the NWA title.....which didn't even mean anything WHEN he won it). I'm just saying, if you accept Miz as a star solely on midcard title wins, then I don't know why you're complaining about Christian. I don't think Miz is a star at all. He's only starting to get there, and he'll only get there when he wins the world title.


Jake 'The Snake' Roberts and Ted DiBiase say hi.


----------



## Dark Kent (Feb 18, 2008)

Pyro™ said:


> I know, but I complain because his career has completely failed and no title he's ever won has meant anything (with the exception of the NWA title.....which didn't even mean anything WHEN he won it). I'm just saying, if you accept Miz as a star solely on midcard title wins, then I don't know why you're complaining about Christian. I don't think Miz is a star at all. He's only starting to get there, and he'll only get there when he wins the world title.


I say Miz is a star because of the status that he has. The fact that he's carrying around 3 title belts at once is an achievement no one in the company has. So you're basically telling me that Stone Cold wasn't a star until he beat Shawn Michaels at Wrestlemania...


----------



## Rachel Deserved It (Dec 19, 2009)

Pyro™ said:


> Sure it is. Midcard = mediocre... the word midcard even uses most of the same letters. ~_~ There's no point in caring about secondary championships, they're not special. When was the last time you saw somebody win a midcard title and went "wow, they just made it big"?


So the midcard titles mean nothing but you think people shoud capture them before becoming World Champion? 

Makes sense


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

Canadian said:


> Jake 'The Snake' Roberts and Ted DiBiase say hi.


Vastly different era, nobody but 1 person ever touched the belt. Besides, even if somebody is a star, they can still not achieve anything important.



> I say Miz is a star because of the status that he has. The fact that he's carrying around 3 title belts at once is an achievement no one in the company has. So you're basically telling me that Stone Cold wasn't a star until he beat Shawn Michaels at Wrestlemania...


Ok, so no one in the company has carried 3 belts at once. Does that make Miz a bigger star than Triple H?

And even though Miz is carrying 3 belts, he's defending 2 of them at ONCE. Plenty of people have held 2 belts at the same time.



Rachel Deserved It said:


> So the midcard titles mean nothing but you think people shoud capture them before becoming World Champion?
> 
> Makes sense


I didn't say SHOULD.

Midcard titles have zero value in and of themselves. Holding the Intercontinental or US title or ECW title or whatever isn't something anybody should be proud of, but they do provide build up. That's their only use.


----------



## Dark Kent (Feb 18, 2008)

Pyro™ said:


> Ok, so no one in the company has carried 3 belts at once. Does that make Miz a bigger star than Triple H?


Who's comparing stars???? I simply said it made him a star...I never said it made him a bigger star than anybody else. And like I asked, so by your logic you're saying that Stone Cold wasn't a star until he beat HBK right???


----------



## Rachel Deserved It (Dec 19, 2009)

So if a wrestler like Evan Bourne came into the WWE and never won a title, he's been as sucessful as a guy like D'lo Brown?


----------



## DryBones87 (Apr 1, 2010)

really pulling for Swagger. I like him way more than Sheamus


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

TheGreatOne2735 said:


> Who's comparing stars???? I simply said it made him a star...I never said it made him a bigger star than anybody else. And like I asked, so by your logic you're saying that Stone Cold wasn't a star until he beat HBK right???


You can't compare Miz to Austin. Austin was a star, yes, but like I said, because you're a star doesn't mean that you've achieved anything important. That was Austin's first important title win, yes.



> So if a wrestler like Evan Bourne came into the WWE and never won a title, he's been as sucessful as a guy like D'lo Brown?


Basically. Neither of them are successful at an even basic level.


----------



## FlyinStyles (Jul 9, 2009)

Really right now it'd say Miz is MORE IMPORTANT to the show then Triple H, Triple H really isn't doing much right now other then this feud with Sheamus but that usually gets a short segment on Raw. Miz is usually in the main event on Raw, he's usaully has a solid role on Smackdown and NXT. Miz is actaully more important then Triple H right now, I'd say. Granted comparing careers would be stupid, Trips would win, star power Trips would win. But right now Miz is actaully more important than Triple H in my books


----------



## SKT T1 Blank (Mar 10, 2008)

Pyro™;8280689 said:


> Vastly different era, nobody but 1 person ever touched the belt. Besides, even if somebody is a star, they can still not achieve anything important.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're an idiot for saying they have zero value. Clearly they have some value if the WWE went as far as to promote a DVD for the Intercontinental title. You can't always be right, seriously, just admit it. You were wrong about McIntyre winning MITB and you're wrong about this.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

Canadian said:


> Your an idiot for saying they have zero value. Clearly they have some value if the WWE went as far as to promote a DVD for the Intercontinental title. You can't always be right, seriously, just admit it. You were wrong about McIntyre winning MITB and you're wrong about this.


*You're. If you're gonna call me an idiot then don't fuck up the way you type, doesn't look good. Thanks.

:lmao at suggesting that the IC title has value because they made a DVD out of it. They put out a DVD with a bunch of matches on it to make MONEY. That doesn't make the title important.


----------



## Rachel Deserved It (Dec 19, 2009)

Pyro™ said:


> Basically. Neither of them are successful at an even basic level.


D'lo is a sucessful midcard wrestler, just the same as alot of hall of famers. So its worth more than nothing.


----------



## SKT T1 Blank (Mar 10, 2008)

Sue me for making a fucking typo, I'm not a negative robot like you. I fixed it before you even posted your ignorant reply.


----------



## Dark Kent (Feb 18, 2008)

Pyro™ said:


> You can't compare Miz to Austin. Austin was a star, yes, but like I said, because you're a star doesn't mean that you've achieved anything important. That was Austin's first important title win, yes.


Says who??? You said that Miz wouldn't be a star until he wins the world title. So how can Austin be a star before he won one, but Miz isn't??? 



> Basically. Neither of them are successful at an even basic level.


D'Lo accomplished more in the WWE than Evan Bourne could even dream of. Becoming the first ever to be the IC AND European champion at the same time. Of course you're gonna shit all over that for your own personal reasons though....


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

TheGreatOne2735 said:


> Says who??? You said that Miz wouldn't be a star until he wins the world title. So how can Austin be a star before he won one, but Miz isn't???


Austin's KOTR promo a year or so before he won the title is arguably the most legendary promo in the history of wrestling and basically ensured that he was going to be the next household name. Miz is just an ordinary midcarder who happens to be really good at getting heat. Austin also won the Royal Rumble before he won the title (and one of the select few as a heel) and had arguably the most legendary WM match ever at WM 13.


----------



## SKT T1 Blank (Mar 10, 2008)

Pyro™ said:


> Austin's KOTR promo 7 or 8 months before he won the title is arguably the most legendary promo in the history of wrestling and basically ensured that he was going to be the next household name. Miz is just an ordinary midcarder who happens to be really good at getting heat.


Your pulling excuses out of your ass, just admit that you're wrong.


----------



## Dark Kent (Feb 18, 2008)

Pyro™ said:


> Austin's KOTR promo 7 or 8 months before he won the title is arguably the most legendary promo in the history of wrestling and basically ensured that he was going to be the next household name. Miz is just an ordinary midcarder who happens to be really good at getting heat.


Miz's promo on January 11, 2010 says hello. Now before you go ape shit over nothing, Im not putting his promo on the level of Austin's...I wouldn't disrespect Stone Cold like that. But what Im saying is that the promo that Austin gave signified his rise to stardom. Miz's promo did the exact same thing for him. Everybody will remember that promo as the start of Miz's rise to the top...


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

> Your pulling excuses out of your ass, just admit that you're wrong.


...No



TheGreatOne2735 said:


> Miz's promo on January 11, 2010 says hello. Now before you go ape shit over nothing, Im not putting his promo on the level of Austin's...I wouldn't disrespect Stone Cold like that. But what Im saying is that the promo that Austin gave signified his rise to stardom. Miz's promo did the exact same thing for him. Everybody will remember that promo as the start of Miz's rise to the top...


I didn't even remember that promo the week after he gave it. I've watched it a few times, it's a really good promo but I don't think it's what turned his career around. He already had momentum for about half a year.


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## Rachel Deserved It (Dec 19, 2009)

Austin was pretty much in the same postition Miz is now, when he gave that promo. Both midcarders who are good at drawing heat.


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## Dark Kent (Feb 18, 2008)

Pyro™ said:


> ...No
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't even remember that promo the week after he gave it. I've watched it a few times, it's a really good promo but I don't think it's what turned his career around. He already had momentum for about half a year.


Yeah he had momentum and Im not saying it turned his career around because the promo Austin made didn't turn his around. Im saying that that promo started the same thing for him that it did for Austin. Now Im not saying that it's the start of his legendary career or whatever but Im saying that it had the same impact on people that Austin's promo had on people...


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## Moonlight_drive (Oct 8, 2008)

Pyro™ said:


> *You're. If you're gonna call me an idiot then don't fuck up the way you type, doesn't look good. Thanks.


Says mister ''fUed''. 
lol.


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## Bwfc1993 (Jan 18, 2010)

Based on events over the past week, who is most deserving of a World Heavyweight Title Match against Jack Swagger?
Chris Jericho
Edge
Randy Orton


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## CM12Punk (Aug 9, 2009)

Randy freakin' Orton. Loved their match on RAW.


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## lesje (Mar 13, 2006)

I dont see anything wrong with both of m.


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## gary year (Jul 5, 2008)

The guy is great and now that he's on SD! he'll be built properly. Lol at him going to SD! and being out over by Edge and Jericho as a legit threat and then on RAW he gets owned two weeks straight by Orton.

Why did they HAVE to make him so serious just because he's champ ?


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## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Pyro™ said:


> Great.
> 
> These titles might be able to develop momentum for someone, but just because a title gives somebody momentum doesn't mean that holding it is a worthwhile accomplishment. They're tiny, miniscule accomplishments at best. The world titles are ultimately the only championships that really have any value. That's why I'm pretty sure I've never seen anyone mark when their favourite wrestler wins a midcard title, it's almost too easy.


did u watc in the 90's marked harder for the ic belt than the world belt back in the day, i do agree with thoygh now they have completely shitted all over the midcard titles. gone are the days where as ic title match could main event a show


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## irishboy109 (Dec 15, 2008)

gary year said:


> Why did they HAVE to make him so serious just because he's champ ?


Are you serious? He's amazing as a serious heel. heat magnet exactly how he is.


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## Quasi Juice (Apr 3, 2006)

Leave it up to Pyro to try to suck all the fun out of Swagger's title reign.


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## ßen1 (Oct 11, 2009)

Swagger needs new music, the current one doesn't suit his serious persona.


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## scottishman (Apr 27, 2009)

If swagger vs morrison on smackdown is any indication of the matches to come from swagger then i am going to enjoy this title reign.


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## Do Your Fcking Job (Feb 9, 2009)

Jethro said:


> Leave it up to Pyro to try to suck all the fun out of Swagger's title reign.


What is he wrong about exactly?


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