# Eastern Europe Discussion Thread



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

I've wanted to make this thread for long time and now I think it's the best time to do this. Generally speaking, there are two main hot topics right now in Eastern Europe.

First, Ukraine has a tough decision: what direction to go. There's west, which means that they would join European Union. A mistake I wouldn't wish upon anyone. We (Lithuania) made this mistake before and now we're paying for it. Then there's east, which means that they would join Russian new union called 'Customs Union' and be Russia's bitch. The people in Ukraine want their country become a part of the EU, while the president wants to side with Russia. As I've said, joining European Union would be a huge mistake. It almost destroyed Lithuania's economy. Migration rates are higher than ever. What's your take on it?

The second major story is Russia's situation. It's really tough. Putin is a dictator. Obviously. Now that I got it out of the way, Russia has 2014 Sochi Winter Olympics. And with so little time left and Putin claiming that the Olympics will be safe, TWO major terror acts take place TWO days in a row. Yesterday a bomb exploded at a train station, killing 16 (numbers vary). And today, another bomb, in a trolleybus this time, explodes, killing at least 14 more people. All this in the same city, which is in the same republic as the one where Winter Olympics are going to take place. Do you think they can make the Olympics safe?

Of course, this is not all. There's Russia's amnesty for the political criminals just before the Sochi games, Russia deploying their missiles (which are in attack mode) on NATO border and so much more.

Now that I think about it, it's almost all about Russia. Anyway, discuss.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Oh, and this thread is for more or less serious discussion, so please no shitty 'In Soviet Russia' jokes here, m'kay?


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## Gandhi (Sep 15, 2012)

Those topics honestly seem interesting to discuss but...

I've read that Hungary is considered a _"Central European"_ country though I've always thought it was considered an Eastern one and thought folks just called European countries as Western and Eastern. The reason I bring up Hungary is because of the MAGNIFICENT porn stars from there, to name a few girls like Eve Angel & Peaches and I could just go on and on.

:moyes1


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Gandhi said:


> Those topics honestly seem interesting to discuss but...
> 
> I've read that Hungary is considered a _"Central European"_ country though I've always thought it was considered an Eastern one and thought folks just called European countries as Western and Eastern. The reason I bring up Hungary is because of the MAGNIFICENT porn stars from there, to name a few girls like Eve Angel & Peaches and I could just go on and on.
> 
> :moyes1


Lithuania is usually considered Eastern Europe, I would also consider it Northern Europe and it actually is geographical center of Europe. It's all complicated.

Let's just consider former Soviet republics and Slavic countries as Eastern Europe.


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## Nightingale (Aug 26, 2012)

Ah the corrupt politics of the EU. Ukraine are better of out of it. 

The UK has become Europe's dumping ground for EU citizens that France and Germany don't want to contend with. The UK is such a mess at the moment, I don't blame Scotland for wanting independence. 

As for Russia, Didn't the president release a statement today that he was tightening security?


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## Gandhi (Sep 15, 2012)

TomasThunder619 said:


> Lithuania is usually considered Eastern Europe, I would also consider it Northern Europe and it actually is geographical center of Europe. It's all complicated.
> 
> Let's just consider former Soviet republics and Slavic countries as Eastern Europe.


Well my friend, Eastern Europe is home to some of the loveliest ladies. 

Anyway there's so much discussion we could open up here, shiiiit I was talking to this Bosnian guy and he was telling me about the war that happened in the 80s or 90s _"I think? I'm not sure when since I haven't met him since..."_ and he'd tell me how the Serbians went insane and slaughtered so much folk in Bosnia. Supposedly, the guy kept telling me how he was raised in times of war. He works with my father back in Kuwait, only met him twice and got to talk to him only once but damn had quite an interesting conversation with him. Dualshock where you at? You should know this stuff!


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Setsuka said:


> As for Russia, Didn't the president release a statement today that he was tightening security?


He's always been saying this.


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## Wagg (Jan 10, 2012)

Eastern Europe sucks donkey dick. I live in that region of Europe and i'm sick of this shit. Corruption, gypsy promotion is high mainly in Romania, sluts and thieves at TV, the government sucks and is corrupted.

If you come to Eastern Europe then you need to give your clock 50 years back.


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## Ambrose Bunny (Sep 5, 2013)

Really hope they won't join the EU, I live in a country that's part of the eu, and we have a lot of depts because of the European taxes that are WAY to high. Joining the eu hasn't really done us any favors, except more poverty and higher taxes.


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## Spittekauga (Jul 21, 2013)

Joining EU would be like investing all your savings in WCW in the year 2000. 

But still, Russia is Russia, always had been controlled by a strong leader i think they need that to keep the country together actually. At least he weaved out some of the corrupt people who earned major dollars on the Soviet-collapse and that's probably why he's hated in western media as some of those cockroaches have connections to influental people in the west. 

Austria is in central-europe, once was together with Hungary so why not call it a central-european country?


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## Skermac (Apr 6, 2012)

Why do they need to join the Eu or the Ru? Why cant they just be themselves aligned with no one? They can still trade with any country they want and no political pressure by belonging to a union of countries.


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Yeah they're going to make the biggest mistake possible if they join the EU at this point. They'll just gain loads of debt and shit.

Besides, I don't think the thing will last too much longer. I see a load of nations leaving being just a matter of someone doing it first.


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## Wealdstone Raider (Jan 3, 2013)

Yeah, join the EU. Then we can we have even more immigrants to with the poles and bulgarians


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## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Yeah, the East is for staying w/ Russia, and the West is for joining the EU. Glad someone is realizing that joining the EU is no better than staying w/ Russia.


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## Figure4Leglock (Aug 18, 2010)

I think most of nations that surfaced after the fall of soviet union are straight connected to eastern europe. My country is in EU, but im not sure anything good have come with it. I see it as a playground for Germany, UK and France


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> The people in Ukraine want their country become a part of the EU, while the president wants to side with Russia. As I've said, joining European Union would be a huge mistake. It almost destroyed Lithuania's economy. Migration rates are higher than ever. What's your take on it?
> 
> .


First of all, the Ukrainian people are split *virtually 50/50* when it comes to joining the *EU* or the *CUSTOM'S UNION *which consists right now of the *Russian Federation*, *Belarus*, and *Kazakhstan*.

The division is pretty much the same as the division in the last presidential election in 2010 - the East and South overwhelmingly for *YANUKOVICH* and pro-Russian relations while the West went solidly for *TYMOSHENKO* and her pro-West, pro-EU philosophy. Tymoshenko was slightly ahead in the Central part of the country.

*EAST & SOUTH SOLIDLY PRO-RUSSIAN / WEST SOLIDLY PRO-WEST / CENTER CLOSE TO 50-50 DIVIDED BUT LEANING TOWARD PRO-WEST*









In my opinion, from an economic standpoint for Ukraine there is no question that joining the *CUSTOM'S UNION *is the thing to do. The *EU* will turn Ukraine into an economic wasteland and drain its brain power and labor force in short order. 

On the other hand, the *CUSTOM'S UNION* supplies Ukraine with natural gas, oil, and myriad raw and manufactured materials at the present time. Once they become a member of the *CUSTOM'S UNION *the prices for all these things, especially gas and oil, will drop to about one third of what they are now paying.

In addition, Ukrainians are Eastern Slavs as are the Russians and Byelorussians. The majority of Ukrainian believers are Eastern Orthodox as are their brothers and sisters in Russia and Belarus. The ethnic and cultural ties that bind the Ukrainian people with their brother and sisters in Russia and Belarus are over 1,000 years old. In fact, Kievan Rus was the first state of the Eastern Slavs who were christened in the Greek (Eastern) Orthodox Church. 

About 35% of the population of Ukraine speaks Russian as its native language. 21% of the population considers both Russian and Ukrainian its native languages. 










Most of the anti-Russian sentiment and pro-EU sentiment in Ukraine is centered in what we call Western Ukraine which includes the cities of *LVIV* and *IVANO-FRANKIVSK*. This is a historically nationalistic, anti-semitic region that supported the Nazis during the Great Patriotic War and has been fighting with the Poles and Russians for generations. The major religion is Uniate Catholicism and they have very little in common with the majority of the population of Ukraine. They have been the main supporters of Yushchenko and, later, Tymoshenko.

*In my opinion, from an economic and cultural/ethnic perspective Ukraine would be much better off joining with the CUSTOM'S UNION and telling the EU to kiss off!
*
- Mike


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## BruiserKC (Mar 14, 2010)

This will be an interesting Olympics in Sochi this year. I know people want to not make sporting events political, but Putin wants to show the world the face of the new Mother Russia in February when he knows he has a captive audience. I compare this to the Berlin Olympics of '36 and the Beijing Olympics in '08. Putin has gone out of his way to transform Russia into what he wants it to be, and now he wants to demonstrate this to the entire world. As the West transforms, he wants to bring it back to a clear contrast of the Cold War. 

Within the next couple of weeks or so, I see another push by the Russians into Chechnya to try to brutally once again crush or push back the Muslim insurgency there. If they are the ones behind the recent terrorist bombings, Putin won't want to look weak in the eyes of the world by allowing nothing to happen and the possibility thus increasing of a massive attack on the Olympics. Yes, there is always the possibility of backlash from some in the West but Putin doesn't care. 

Ukraine...east or west? It's not really a good solution either way. Right now, the EU is a mess and the grumblings of some nations wanting to pull out doesn't bode well. On the other hand, the iron fist of Russian control is not a good thing either. I can easily see a repeat of the cut-off of oil and gas Russia has pulled in the past on Ukraine. Or, would Putin take the step of sending Russian forces into Ukraine, like was done in Georgia?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

BruiserKC said:


> Ukraine...east or west? It's not really a good solution either way. Right now, the EU is a mess and the grumblings of some nations wanting to pull out doesn't bode well. On the other hand, the iron fist of Russian control is not a good thing either. I can easily see a repeat of the cut-off of oil and gas Russia has pulled in the past on Ukraine. Or, would Putin take the step of sending Russian forces into Ukraine, like was done in Georgia?


Joining and remaining a member of the CUSTOMS UNION is voluntary and does not entail "the iron fist of Russian control." And, for Ukraine it would be a VERY good thing as it proved to be for *Belarus* and *Kazakhstan*.

Regarding oil and gas, contrary to your opinion Russia has *lowered natural gas prices* to Ukraine by *33%* from the international price of *$402 *per cubic meter to *$268*. This will go into effect on *January 10th*. If Ukraine joins the CUSTOMS UNION the price will be dropped to almost half that figure. Belarus pays *$167 *per cubic meter of natural gas. 

Oil prices are also being lowered to help Ukraine and would drop far lower if Ukraine joins the CUSTOMS UNION. In addition, Russia is supplying Ukrainian refineries with additional crude oil in 2014 so they can raise production.

Regarding Georgia, Russian forces were sent in after Washington's psychotic puppet, Mikhail Saakashvili, attacked and killed peacekeeping forces and civilians in South Ossetia with the tacit approval of the good old boys in D.C.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_*Soon the Armenian flag will join the flags of Russia, Belarus, and Kazakhstan in the CUSTOMS UNION*._


In 2014 Armenia will become the fourth member of the CUSTOMS UNION with the Russian Federation, Belarus, and Kazakhstan. The West went berserk when it was informed that Armenia was joining the economic union with its brothers in the East.

Waiting in the wings to join are official candidates Tadjikistan and Kyrgyzstan. Ukraine is an observer candidate and, hopefully, soon a full fledged candidate and member.

- Mike 


Armenia to Become Full-Fledged Customs Union Member in 2014 - President
YEREVAN, January 1 (RIA Novosti) – Armenian President Serzh Sargsyan said on Wednesday that his country would complete all procedures to join the Russian-led Customs Union this year.

"I’m sure that this year we will become a full-fledged member of the Customs Union. Armenia will create a new environment, in which it will be better protected and more competitive, Sargsyan said in his televised New Year speech...
http://en.ria.ru/world/20140101/186...Customs-Union-Member-in-2014---President.html


EU Stunned by Armenia U-Turn
European diplomats were stunned this week by word that Armenia, which had been heading toward strengthening ties with the European Union, will instead join a customs union led by Russia—handing the Kremlin a victory in its tug of war with Brussels for influence in the region.

The question now is whether Armenia’s move foreshadows similar decisions by other former Soviet republics...
http://blogs.wsj.com/brussels/2013/09/04/eu-stunned-by-armenia-u-turn/
[/SIZE]


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> _*Soon the Armenian flag will join the flags of Russia, Belarus, and Kazakhstan in the CUSTOMS UNION*._
> 
> 
> In 2014 Armenia will become the fourth member of the CUSTOMS UNION with the Russian Federation, Belarus, and Kazakhstan. The West went berserk when it was informed that Armenia was joining the economic union with its brothers in the East.
> ...


I heard the rumors that Azerbaijan will join them too, which is ironic, since Armenia and Azerbaijan don't like each other very much.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> I heard the rumors that Azerbaijan will join them too, which is ironic, since Armenia and Azerbaijan don't like each other very much.


Azerbaijan is not on the list to join as far as I know. 

Regarding Armenia and Azerbaijan not liking each other, that would only be natural. After Muslim Turkey's genocide of between 1 and 1.5 million Armenians from 1915 to 1918, Yerevan is prone to having a cynical and suspicious attitude toward Muslim countries such as Azerbaijan. However, their mutual dislike for each other stems from other issues as well that go back to the Soviet period.

Having said that, I don't think that Armenia's mistrust of Muslim countries interferes with its pragmatism regarding its present economic well being and national defense. Armenia belongs to the *CSTO* (*COLLECTIVE SECURITY TREATY ORGANIZATION*) which is a military alliance that arose due to the massive NATO expansion during the last two decades since the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

The alliance membership presently consists of the *Russian Federation, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Armenia, Tadjikistan, and Kyrgyzstan* (all former Soviet Republics). *Serbia, Ukraine, and Afghanistan *are observer nations. Muslims are the majority among believers in members *Tadjikistan* and *Kyrgyzstan*. 

- Mike


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## Quasi Juice (Apr 3, 2006)

I've always thought the EU should have stuck with the original European Coal and Steel Community founding fathers, i.e. Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Luxembourg, plus Austria, Switzerland (if they want to) and Scandinavian countries. The UK can kiss my ass; they don't feel part of Europe, they didn't adopt the Euro, they drive on the other side of the road, the way they measure and weigh things is still different. So basically they refuse to adapt and are only pro-EU when it benefits them.

Had they kept that group together it would have been fine. It includes the rich European countries (Belgium and Italy are debatable) and keeps out the poor and corrupt countries that need constant financial backing. The EU included all these shitty countries because they are afraid of Russia. They think by including former Soviet countries Russia's power will diminish. Now Russia is basically recreating a Soviet Union with the Customs Union but in a very creative, less obvious and violent way. I'm fine with Ukraine joining Russia's group because that means Holland doesn't have to bail Ukraine out in the future. The biggest reason people in EU countries are now questioning the EU's usefulness is because of all the money going to the shithole that is Greece.

The Winter Olympics in Russia piss me off. First Russia gets the Olympics, then they get the World Cup in 2018. All because of fuckin' money, it's disgusting. Russia CLEARLY isn't ready for these tournaments. When there are countless acts of terrorism not far from where you're hosting a huge event, you know something is wrong. If this happened in Holland, Germany, UK etc people would be outraged and seriously considering not having the event. You just know during the Olympics behind the scenes the Russian police will be extremely violent towards certain people just so on the surface it looks like the Olympics are going great. It's sickening that these organisations give countries like Russia big events knowing full well what the consequences are. Not to mention, who the fuck wants to go to some place in Russia most people have never heard of, and which is notorious for it's mafia? They definitely didn't make this choice for tourists and fans.



psycho bunny said:


> Really hope they won't join the EU, I live in a country that's part of the eu, and we have a lot of depts because of the European taxes that are WAY to high. Joining the eu hasn't really done us any favors, except more poverty and higher taxes.


Where do you live?


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Speaking of Euro, Latvia now has Euro instead of a Lat as of January 1st. I so hope Lithuania won't get Euro.


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## BRITLAND (Jun 17, 2012)

Quasi Juice said:


> I've always thought the EU should have stuck with the original European Coal and Steel Community founding fathers, i.e. Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Luxembourg, plus Austria, Switzerland (if they want to) and Scandinavian countries. *The UK can kiss my ass; they don't feel part of Europe, they didn't adopt the Euro, they drive on the other side of the road, the way they measure and weigh things is still different. So basically they refuse to adapt and are only pro-EU when it benefits them.*
> 
> Had they kept that group together it would have been fine. It includes the rich European countries (Belgium and Italy are debatable) and keeps out the poor and corrupt countries that need constant financial backing. The EU included all these shitty countries because they are afraid of Russia. They think by including former Soviet countries Russia's power will diminish. Now Russia is basically recreating a Soviet Union with the Customs Union but in a very creative, less obvious and violent way. I'm fine with Ukraine joining Russia's group because that means Holland doesn't have to bail Ukraine out in the future. The biggest reason people in EU countries are now questioning the EU's usefulness is because of all the money going to the shithole that is Greece.
> 
> ...


We don't even want to be part of the EU, we want out it's our Governments who insist on it, hopefully we're granted a referendum by 2017 and we'll leave making us and you very happy


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## Quasi Juice (Apr 3, 2006)

BRITLAND said:


> We don't even want to be part of the EU, we want out it's our Governments who insist on it, hopefully we're granted a referendum by 2017 and we'll leave making us and you very happy


The UK has been pretty useless anyway for the EU. Don't get me wrong, I lived in the UK for over a year, I loved going out and shit like that and made a lot of friends but it's clearly not Western Europe to me. There's a huge island mentality and they know a surprisingly low amount about the rest of Europe. Hell, girls think extreme fake tan looks good, lolBrits. So yeah I'd be okay with no UK in the EU, it doesn't fit.


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## youowemesomething (Nov 29, 2013)

Speaking of Eastern Europe, let's talk about the poor starving kids there who don't get commercials asking to send them money. What's the deal with that?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> The second major story is Russia's situation. It's really tough. Putin is a dictator. Obviously...
> ...Of course, this is not all. ...Russia deploying their missiles (which are in attack mode) on NATO border and so much more.
> 
> Now that I think about it, it's almost all about Russia. Anyway, discuss.


Most of the members of this forum were youngsters or not even born when the Soviet Union was dissolved two decades ago. While I am not a big Putin fan, his actions since first taking the helm should be considered in the context of the international situation then and now.

Prior to the dissolution of the USSR the Warsaw Pact was disbanded with the tacit agreement of Washington and the West to disband NATO. This would make sense since the raison d’etre for NATO no longer existed. However, as we all know, over the last two decades NATO has grown to more than double the size it was since the end of the Cold War and dissolution of the Soviet Union.

The NATO growth coincided with the neglect and de facto dismantling of the Russian military by the corrupt regime of the murderer and drunkard Boris Yeltsin. Under the smokescreen of “democracy,” Yeltsin committed myriad crimes against the people of the Russian Federation. However, we are just concentrating on his destruction of national security here.

By the end of the decade of the ‘90s the Russian military was reduced to a mere shell of what it was by Yeltsin (who was too busy bolstering his own position by kissing ass in Washington to give a damn about his country). By the time Yeltsin was finally removed from office the Russian military was at its lowest point in modern history. Naval ships and submarines sat idle rusting in Russian ports. Soldiers on duty in remote areas went around half-starved because of the lack of rations. Military supplies, including weapons, were being traded on the black market by hungry soldiers and speculators.

By 1999 the Russian military could barely defend the country if it was attacked, let alone commit an aggression against anyone. This was the situation that Putin inherited when he took the helm in the Kremlin.

What the good old boys in Washington and their allies in Brussels like is a Russia on its knees, not a strong competitor in the world market place. For a decade Washington had been arming Georgia, instigating and supporting “color” revolutions in various post-Soviet Republics, building up NATO, and intentionally encircling Russia while Yeltsin groveled and did everything he could to please his masters in the U.S.

All the rhetoric of letting Russia enter the world community as an equal player after the dissolution of the USSR was just a string of empty promises to keep Russia off balance and weak while Washington and Brussels built up their military and economic power. 

Russia is just too big of a nation with a huge amount of natural resources and a highly educated population. Such a potential competitor could not be allowed to enter the world community. As long as Russia was on its knees it was a “good friend and ally” of the West. Otherwise, it is looked on as a threat. However, this time not as a communist nation opposed to capitalism. But, as a capitalist nation that has the potential to economically dominate the world market place.

The present day criticism of Putin for deploying missiles in Kaliningrad is absurd. Washington is building a missile shield on Russia’s borders and this is just a response to that action. In fact, despite the “holier than thou accusations” from Western leaders, the truth is that all the anti-Putin rhetoric is leveled at him because he got Russia back on its feet militarily and he won’t eat shit like Yeltsin in order to keep his position.

Yes, Putin is a dictator. But, so was Yeltsin. The Yeltsin dictatorship was praised in the West, because it kept Russia on its knees. The Putin dictatorship is cursed in the West, because it got Russia off its knees and stronger.

I maintain that Washington and the West are hypocrites and indirectly responsible for there being a dictatorship in Russia. They supported and loved the Yeltsin dictatorship, because Yeltsin served Western interests. Putin not so much.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

С РОЖДЕСТВОМ ХРИСТОВЫМ! 

On *January 7th *across Eastern Europe and the post-Soviet Republics the *Nativity of Christ *is observed according to the *Julian Calendar *in the Orthodox Churches of Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Serbia, Greece, Macedonia, and others.

*KIRILL, PATRIARCH OF MOSCOW AND ALL THE RUSSIAS CELEBRATES CHRISTMAS SERVICE *










*Believers burn dried oak branches, which symbolize the Yule log, on Orthodox Christmas Eve in front of the St. Sava Cathedral in Belgrade January 6, 2014. Serbian Orthodox believers celebrate Christmas on January 7, according to the Julian calendar. 








*


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## Black Jesus (Apr 7, 2013)

Putin needs to go. Russia is getting more and more conservative, and more hostile to the West. Shame, because at one point it seemed like Russia would understand whats best for the world and join the European Union and maybe even NATO.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Is this where i can put my "In Soviet Union" jokes?

I got like a million of them but no where to use them as the iron curtain fell like 2 decades ago


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

General Aladeen said:


> Putin needs to go. Russia is getting more and more conservative, and more hostile to the West. Shame, because at one point it seemed like Russia would understand whats best for the world and join the European Union and maybe even NATO.


Try reading post *#26 *on this page. It might help you understand why things are the way they are with Russia by providing some information that you were unaware of.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

stevefox1200 said:


> Is this where i can put my "In Soviet Union" jokes?
> 
> I got like a million of them but no where to use them as the iron curtain fell like 2 decades ago


Read the second post.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

TomasThunder619 said:


> Read the second post.


well that's awkward....


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

One of the major negative trends that has arisen in post-Cold War, post-Soviet Eastern Europe is the rise of neo-Nazism. It is evident in various forms - from neo-fascist NazBols led by Limonov in Russia to organized Nazi groups in the Baltic states that salute and honor the Hitlerite order.

With the exception of the United States, that appears to look at these neo-Nazi movements as some sort of an advantage for their world political ambitions, the overwhelming majority of UN members have voted to condemn neo-Nazism. 

The Baltic states are a hotbed of Nazi activity where annual marches and rallies are held to honor Hitler, Nazi Germany, and the Baltic people who fought for the Third Reich. The scariest part of all this is that the governments of the Baltic states tacitly support this.

The following article will give you an idea of the mentality of the pro-Nazi element in the post-Soviet Baltic nations:


NAZI VETERAN BURIED WITH FULL HONORS IN ESTONIA
TALLINN, January 10 (RIA Novosti) – Estonia granted a burial with full military honors Friday to a decorated Nazi SS veteran who distinguished himself in combat against Soviet troops during World War II.

Harald Nugiseks, the last surviving Estonian recipient of Nazi Germany's Knight's Cross, died on January 2 at the age of 93.

The history of Estonian collaboration with the Nazis is subject of widespread revulsion in neighboring Russia, but is viewed by many in the Baltic nation as having been a necessity for achieving national independence.

Nugiseks was buried at the Estonian Soldiers Memorial Church in the city of Tori. The ceremony was attended by Brigadier General Meelis Kiili, commander of the Estonian Defense League, retired high-ranking military officers and local officials.

Estonian Defense Minister Urmas Reinsalu earlier expressed condolences to the relatives of the deceased Nazi veteran saying that Nugiseks “was a legendary Estonian soldier whose tragedy was that he could not fight for Estonian freedom in an Estonian uniform.”

Nugiseks joined the Germans as a volunteer in 1941 and later served a soldier in the 20th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Estonian).

He was one of four Estonian recipients of the Third Reich's highest award for battlefield bravery.

Nugiseks became a prisoner of war after his division surrendered in 1945. He was sent to a labor camp in Siberia, from which he returned in 1958.

After Estonia regained its independence in 1991, Nugiseks was given honorary captain rank by the Defense Forces.

An estimated 80,000 Estonians are believed to have fought alongside Nazi German forces during World War II.

Russia has repeatedly condemned glorification of Nazism in Estonia, where reunions of Nazi veterans and parades in honor of former Waffen-SS soldiers are held annually.

*ANNUAL "LEGIONAIRES MARCH" IN RIGA, LATVIA WHERE LATVIANS WHO FOUGHT FOR THE NAZIS ARE HONORED*


















*NAZI MEETING IN LITHUANIA*


















*ESTONIAN SS VETERANS MEET AND UNVEIL MONUMENT TO WAFFEN SS
*


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## ice_edge (Aug 4, 2011)

TomasThunder619 said:


> I've wanted to make this thread for long time and now I think it's the best time to do this. Generally speaking, there are two main hot topics right now in Eastern Europe.
> 
> First, Ukraine has a tough decision: what direction to go. There's west, which means that they would join European Union. A mistake I wouldn't wish upon anyone. We (Lithuania) made this mistake before and now we're paying for it. Then there's east, which means that they would join Russian new union called 'Customs Union' and be Russia's bitch. The people in Ukraine want their country become a part of the EU, while the president wants to side with Russia. As I've said, joining European Union would be a huge mistake. It almost destroyed Lithuania's economy. Migration rates are higher than ever. What's your take on it?
> 
> ...


*Joining either EU or Russia is probably equally as bad for Ukraine. But they will choose EU I would believe. Also Lithuania wasn't a rich country to begin with and it had more to do with Globalism in general and not just EU that made the economy suffer....since let's face it the economy is indeed connected world over. 

One really bad decision in Lithuania would be to get Euro currency. I dunno if it would make it worse but Greece sure as hell suffered from that. 

Tell me about this migration issue since everytimne I come for a visit I don't really see much foreigners man..in comparison to let's say Sweden or England for that matter. I basically don't see anyone from middle east nor Africa while in Sweden and England(meaning north and west Europe) I can see foreigners every day. And than there is people saying that migration is a problem in Lithuania? I mean is that even serious? Are we talking about supposed Asian folks who come abroad to take Lithuanian jobs? Wages have nothing been high in Lithuania to begin with so why would they come there to begin to our homeland? Lithuania is a poor country. 

Well it seems Russia is preparing for a possible war. It just doesn't look that good overall. Either way when wasn't Russian government corrupted to the core to begin with?*


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## Mr.Cricket (Feb 22, 2011)

Russia has the largest neo nazis, which is pretty ironic because the original Nazis hated Russians and thought they were sub humans.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Mr.Cricket said:


> Russia has the largest neo nazis, which is pretty ironic because the original Nazis hated Russians and thought they were sub humans.


Limonov's NazBols and the scattered right wing, fascist groups that include skinheads are definitely visible in Russian society today. And, I agree with you that this is ironic since one of Nazism's goals was the enslavement and eventual extermination of the Eastern Slavs (Russians, Ukrainians, and Byelorussians) along with the Jews.

However, the Nazi movement in the post-Soviet Baltic nations is larger per capita, more organized and, worst of all, *supported by the governments of those three countries*, albeit tacitly for the most part.

The "anti-communist" rhetoric is a cover for anti-Russian ethnic hatred today. About a third of the population of the three Baltic nations is ethnic Russian and the Balts want them out. Anti-semitism is not a major problem, because there are virtual no Jews left in the Baltic states. The German Nazis and their Baltic collaborators virtually wiped them out during the Great Patriotic War. Meanwhile, Baltic neo-Nazis play the "anti-communist" card to justifiy their grandfathers' participation in the Waffen SS and the growth of present day neo-Nazi activities. 

Despite all of this the Baltic states are valued members of NATO and allies of the U.S. This is the height of hypocrisy.

- Mike


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## That Red (Jan 11, 2014)

I was pleasantly surprised to see this thread here, and to see that it was a thread that took this region seriously rather than belittling it. I don't quite know why, but this region has always fascinated me. Perhaps it's because most Americans draw a blank on anything east of a certain point that isn't Russia. The average American couldn't tell you the difference between Serbia and Ukraine, or Slovakia and Bulgaria. Most don't know that Belarus and Moldova exist at all.

I can't claim to know enough to say which direction Ukraine should go in, but all signs point to the Customs Union. Ukraine joining the EU wouldn't make sense for either side. As Batko10 pointed out, Ukraine has strong cultural ties to Russia and Belarus. I find these societies are best-described as being European, but not Western. Ukraine joining the likes of Belgium and Germany over them wouldn't make much sense, even when you don't take economic factors into account.

Overall, I find it sad that the everyday Ukrainian people are being treated as mere pawns in the latest political scuffle between the NATO countries and Russia.


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## Iriquiz (Jul 16, 2013)

In soviet russia the terrorists would have gone to the gulags because they had a religion but now normal federal russia is not as tight. The police did try to stop the suicide bomber but she blew herself up before they could kill her. 

The boxer vitali klitschko is also leading the ukraine protests because he thinks himself as muhammed ali.


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## SovietWrestler (May 30, 2012)

Let's talk about facts:

Population of Bulgaria:










Population of Rumania:










Population of Russia:










Population of Ukraine:










Poverty before and after the fall of socialism in East Europe:










Inequality in Russia:










Food supply in Soviet Union (better than much capitalist countries):










Breakup of soviet union more harmful than good?


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## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

Batko10 said:


> Most of the members of this forum were youngsters or not even born when the Soviet Union was dissolved two decades ago. While I am not a big Putin fan, his actions since first taking the helm should be considered in the context of the international situation then and now.
> 
> Prior to the dissolution of the USSR the Warsaw Pact was disbanded with the tacit agreement of Washington and the West to disband NATO. This would make sense since the raison d’etre for NATO no longer existed. However, as we all know, over the last two decades NATO has grown to more than double the size it was since the end of the Cold War and dissolution of the Soviet Union.
> 
> ...


This is about as on-point a post on this subject from the perspective of Russia and the American/Western treatment of same as you are likely to find.

Putin is not some good guy to get cuddly with, but he's a tough son of a bitch who's largely doing what is in the interests of his own country, countrymen and national history, heritage and culture. 

Somewhere along the way in America's "Unipolar Moment" as Samuel Huntington, Charles Krauthammer and other laptop bombardiers coined it, the country that stood tall and proud against Soviet aggression for four and a half decades of Cold War did not wish to put away the weapons and soldiers and operatives and go back to matters that were of considerably greater import. When John McCain can bluster about all Americans "being Georgians now," one wonders if most Americans were cool with signing on to forever combat Russia over some little flare-up in Georgia should things get that far. 

Back in high school I wrote a thesis paper on why NATO should have been disbanded after the Cold War's conclusion--or, at the very least, the United States of America should have withdrawn from it, gradually reducing its involvement over the course of a few years until it was no longer present in the affairs of Europe, and especially of Eastern Europe, where American interests are significantly lower in any event. Instead, the United States has done precisely the opposite, egging on Russia at nearly every step, collaborating with some Western countries in bringing NATO to Russia's doorstep, just as now the EU is endeavoring to expand eastward. 

Quite frankly, what Putin does internally in Russia and with adjacent countries should not be our concern (he said, speaking as an American) so long as he does not begin turning the country into some kind of aggressive and nightmarish regime-gone-bad ala Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union, which, even if he wanted to, he could not realistically pull together. 

I would, perhaps, slightly quibble with the line that Russia has the capability to potentially "economically dominate the world marketplace," what with the frighteningly dismal birth rate of Mother Russia today and how those numbers are projected out as of now. However, there's no reason why Russia should not be a very strong global economic force. And were Russia to dominate certain areas or swaths of the global economic marketplace, that would be just fine with me. The West, one would think, would be better served by the rehabilitation of Russia as a capitalistic world power than the continued emergence of China as the de facto superpower being birthed as western governments and companies seek cheaper and cheaper goods for their people to purchase at home. The Chinese, wise and deeply prudent in the building of their own national might over the course of decades, are replicating what the Americans did in the latter half of the nineteenth century and first half of the twentieth century, and what the British adroitly consummated for their own good before the mid-nineteenth century. 

Circling back around to Russia, though, one would at least wish for the West, for NATO, should it have to exist, and for America, to be gracious winners. What happened at the end of the Cold War, in 1991 and 1992? Russia allowed the Berlin Wall to be torn down. All of her satellite states were voted or thrown out of power across all of Eastern Europe with the Russians not so much as raising a finger. Russia immediately agreed to pull the Red Army back across its border and agreed to allow the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics to dissolve into fifteen separate nations. The Communist Party agreed to share power and promptly let itself be voted out. Russia quickly embraced all-out modern freedom and American-style capitalism; Americans were invited in to show them how it was done. 

Just as the Red Army was strangled almost to death, Russia abolished its KGB outright and soon thereafter the Comintern disappeared. Yet in sunny America, the National Endowment for Democracy, Freedom House and numerous Cold War agencies and institutions were funded by the government on the hapless taxpayers' dimes and with tax-exempt contribution dollars, ceaselessly and furtively engineering the ouster of (almost entirely mildly) pro-Russian regimes in Serbia, the Ukraine, and Georgia. They fought for and sought the ouster of the regime in Minsk, Belarus as well.

While Russia withdrew its army and closed bases in Cuba and all over the Third World, America has sought to establish permanent military bases all over Russia's backyard in Central Asia and to her doorstep in Eastern Europe. The Nixon-Brezhnev Treaty was rashly dissolved, and America announced that missile defense systems would be put up in Poland and Czechoslovakia. Under Clinton and Bush II, the United States financed a pipeline from which Caspian Sea oil could be extracted, to transit through Azerbaijan and Georgia to the Black Sea and Turkey, cutting Russia out of the enterprise. 

Is it any wonder that Russian resentment may exist? How on earth do can we come across when such one-sidedness is put on display for all to freely see? There was no ideological or historical or territorial (thanks very much for Alaska, Russia, it was a good purchase!) dispute. There need not have been any economic or financial troubles, either. Once communism had perished in the largest nation on earth, there was no reason to not treat Russia like any other honest friend.

The overwhelming bulk of the sentiment coming back to the West is sadly the West's own doing at this point in time. Interestingly, only six days ago, I believe, Russia filed its first grievance with the World Trade Organization, complaining about the EU's anti-dumping duties. It is uncertain how Ukraine will go, but it is known that Russia imports approximately 25% of Ukraine's goods. Russia may hold the cards here.

It is hilarious that Obama went on Jay Leno's show and said that the Russians sometimes "slip back into Cold War thinking."

The poet Burns was right. "O would some power the gift to give us to see ourselves as others see us..."


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Just wanted to share this hilarious stuff from gay pride parade in Ukraine. To be honest, poor old guys in the photos. They were most likely just picked up from the streets, offered a bottle, given these flags and maybe didn't even know what was going on.

Link: http://englishrussia.com/2013/11/25/gay-pride-parade-in-kiev/


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

DesolationRow said:


> The overwhelming bulk of the sentiment coming back to the West is sadly the West's own doing at this point in time. Interestingly, only six days ago, I believe, Russia filed its first grievance with the World Trade Organization, complaining about the EU's anti-dumping duties. It is uncertain how Ukraine will go, but it is known that Russia imports approximately 25% of Ukraine's goods. Russia may hold the cards here.
> 
> It is hilarious that Obama went on Jay Leno's show and said that the Russians sometimes "slip back into Cold War thinking."
> 
> *The poet Burns was right. "O would some power the gift to give us to see ourselves as others see us*..."



TO WASHINGTON - AS YE SOW, SO SHALL YE REAP!


*RISE UP FOR THE FATHERLAND! - A. A. KHARCHENKO*
"The boots of the occupiers march on Red Square,
The aggressor is at the Spassky Gates.
Answer them like Russians!
Wake up Russian people!
Rise up Soviet people!"
Defend the Motherland!





*MAYDAY IN KIEV, UKRAINE - 2013
*




*MAYDAY IN MOSCOW, R.F. - 2013*


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## InTheAirTonight (Jan 1, 2014)

USA >>>>>>>>


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## That Red (Jan 11, 2014)

TomasThunder619 said:


> Just wanted to share this hilarious stuff from gay pride parade in Ukraine. To be honest, poor old guys in the photos. They were most likely just picked up from the streets, offered a bottle, given these flags and maybe didn't even know what was going on.
> 
> Link: http://englishrussia.com/2013/11/25/gay-pride-parade-in-kiev/


I believe that in Ukraine, it's common for people to take part in political marches/rallies for small compensation. I saw a mini documentary about street children in Ukraine, and at one point they took part in a rally to get some money to eat. I don't even think the kid knew what he was rallying for.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

That Red said:


> I believe that in Ukraine, it's common for people to take part in political marches/rallies for small compensation. I saw a mini documentary about street children in Ukraine, and at one point they took part in a rally to get some money to eat. I don't even think the kid knew what he was rallying for.


This is not strictly a Ukrainian phenomenon. In Belarus the "opposition" is notorious for paying young people to come to anti-government rallies. Since the Byleorussian "opposition," i.e. *fifth column*, is funded by foreign governments (mainly the U.S. and Germany) they have plenty of cash to throw around.

This was one of the tactics used in the early stages of the U.S. instigated "color revolutions" in post-Soviet nations including the *"Orange Revolution"* in Ukraine. Paying off "demonstrators" is a tried and true way to spark trouble and "get the ball rolling."

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> This is not strictly a Ukrainian phenomenon. In Belarus the "opposition" is notorious for paying young people to come to anti-government rallies. Since the Byleorussian "opposition," i.e. *fifth column*, is funded by foreign governments (mainly the U.S. and Germany) they have plenty of cash to throw around.
> 
> This was one of the tactics used in the early stages of the U.S. instigated "color revolutions" in post-Soviet nations including the *"Orange Revolution"* in Ukraine. Paying off "demonstrators" is a tried and true way to spark trouble and "get the ball rolling."
> 
> - Mike


Yes, but it's not always a bad thing. The ball needs to start rolling sometimes.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> Yes, but it's not always a bad thing. The ball needs to start rolling sometimes.


I have to disagree with you. Instigating street disorders and revolutions in sovereign nations to further one's own political/military agenda is immoral and will come back to bite you in the ass sooner or later. And, that is what the U.S. and NATO have been doing for the last 20 years since the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

Eventually, they will reap what they have sown - and it won't be a good thing for anyone!

- Mike


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## That Red (Jan 11, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> This is not strictly a Ukrainian phenomenon. In Belarus the "opposition" is notorious for paying young people to come to anti-government rallies. Since the Byleorussian "opposition," i.e. *fifth column*, is funded by foreign governments (mainly the U.S. and Germany) they have plenty of cash to throw around.
> 
> This was one of the tactics used in the early stages of the U.S. instigated "color revolutions" in post-Soviet nations including the *"Orange Revolution"* in Ukraine. Paying off "demonstrators" is a tried and true way to spark trouble and "get the ball rolling."
> 
> - Mike


I can believe that. From what I know, Belarus has perhaps the most non-Western government of any European country. The U.S. certainly isn't above trying to destroy something from the inside, as objectionable as it is. I never thought about it that way.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

That Red said:


> I can believe that. From what I know, Belarus has perhaps the most non-Western government of any European country. The U.S. certainly isn't above trying to destroy something from the inside, as objectionable as it is. I never thought about it that way.


Belarus became a target of Washington's wrath because its President, Alexander Lukashenko, cares more about the economic interests of Belarus' citizens than the interests of foreign capital. The US and the West have demonized Lukashenko not because of violations of human rights and democracy. Washington had (and has now) plenty of allies and friends like Saudi Arabia where basic human rights are non-existant. Lukashenko's "sins" are his refusal to sell out his country to Western corporate interests, refusal to join NATO, and joining a military and economic alliance with Russia and Kazakhstan.

In order to get him to toe the line the US has followed its tried and true plan - demonization, infiltration, and agitation. The first step is to demonize the leader by publishing as many lies as possible in the western press so he has no credibility. 

That is followed by the infiltration of the country with as many foreign, i.e. American, NGOs (Non-Governmental Organizations) as they can get away with. Through those NGOs with the active support of the American Embassy is undertaken a process of recruiting and financing an "opposition" movement, i.e. Fifth Column.

This "opposition" then brings out people into the street to demonstrate, riot, and cause as much chaos as possible on as many levels as possible.

This has been done successfully in Ukraine, Georgia, and other post-Soviet nations. However, it just pisses off Washington that they can't seem to overthrow Lukashenko. The overwhelming majority of Byelorussians love him as even the New York Times admits in one breath, and then in the other claims the Byelorussian presidential elections are rigged. If that sounds contradictory to you - it is! As is much of the U.S. and West's propaganda against Belarus and Alexander Lukashenko.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Lithuanian prime minister Butkevicius just said that from January 1, 2015 Lithuania will have Euro, or else, he will resign. That stupid cunt better resign now. He also says that HE does not need a referendum or even hear people's opinion about this. What a moron.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

If there's still somebody who thinks that Euro is good, since Latvia got Euro on January 1 this year, all the prices went up approximately 25%.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Lacking the votes at the Ukrainian polls to do it, it appears that Washington and Brussels are using the Western Ukrainian nationalists to create a violent situation that they hope will lead to a regime change so they can ram the Euro and NATO down Ukraine's throat.

Anyone who doubts that the United States is involved should keep in mind that over the last two decades Washington has instigated myriad regime changes in post-Soviet space both directly and indirectly. At present, the good old boys in DC are furious that Ukraine rejected NATO membership, and more recently backed away from joining the EU. Ukraine was their hope to continue an eastward advance to eventually strangle and destroy the Russian Federation.

Once again, the West makes a sham out of the word "democracry." It would seem that "democracy" exists only when it suits the interests of the West. The Ukraine has democratic elections, so why not wait for the upcoming elections to change the president and government? Simply, because the West doesn't have enough support among the people who will vote Yanukovich and the present government back in for a second term.

The only way the U.S. and E.U. can get a foothold in Ukraine is to initiate and support a violent regime change by the Western Ukrainian nationalist minority. Then it would be a relatively easy matter to turn Ukraine into an economic slave of the EU and member of NATO.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Here is an interesting interview that gives a different view of events in Ukraine from the picture painted in the western mass media. - Mike 

_The international community doesn’t have an objective insight into the situation in Ukraine, as most news come from media that are effectively ‘opposition activist organs,’ *Graham Philips*, a Ukraine-based British journalist, told RT. 
_

*RT:* The US has already introduced sanctions against Ukraine's leadership - you've been covering this ongoing turmoil - why is the West ignoring the level of violence by the opposition? 

*GP:* *You have to look at who’s reporting the actual actions taking place in Kiev.* It’s coming filtered through the prism of organizations such as Radio Svoboda, Ukrainskaya Pravda and the Kiev Post. Their objectivity is completely compromised by the fact they’re effectively opposition activists organs. And they are functioning in that way — and they are reporting the news to that ends, and *so we get the news filtered through the opposition’s lens. And that’s how it is reported to the wide world. 
*
*RT:* What do you think is the driving force of the unrest? 

*GP:* *The driving force is clearly fundamental far right extremist neo-Nazi politics.* Everyone knew that when ‘Svoboda’ achieved around 10% of the votes in the October, 2012 election there were going to be repercussions, and it didn’t take long. And this has been in the offing for a long time. If you notice now, nobody is even talking about the Association agreement; nobody is even talking about Tymoshenko’s release from prison, which were supposedly the touch papers which lit this up. This was orchestrated from the beginning, and if you go to the occupied City Hall now you’ll see Svoboda’s flags, Svoboda’s banners flying, bedecked across the building. So make no mistake: *this is an attempt by a party strongly linked with far right neo-Nazi politics to overthrow the Ukrainian government. 
*
*RT:* From what we've been hearing from different opposition factions - it seems like nationalist groups are gaining momentum? Why does the international community ignore this? And how long can the activists be unnoticed? 

*GP:* I was stunned, I was on the Grushevskogo on Sunday. And I saw guys lining up with missiles and ‘Molotov cocktails’, knives and weapons of every single manner attacking police in every way they could. And when I returned from that and I was on the internet checking the news, it was reported immediately that the US government had introduced sanctions against the Ukrainian government; the Ukrainian police and government are being criticized. 
But to be there on the ground it is absurd to reconcile that with what you see. I have been at the City Hall just before the proceeding events – these guys were getting militarized, were getting mobilized, they were getting ready to go into war. They knew exactly, they were receiving briefings, they were receiving instructions on the basis of going into war. *And they went to that end to effectively instigate a civil war in Ukraine. I think it would really be tendentious to say what we have at the moment is a degree of a civil war in Ukraine. 
*
*RT:* One of the opposition frontmen Vitaly Klitchko has been calling for an outright offensive, but when we asked him on camera, he softened his stance saying he's doing his best to keep the unrest peaceful. Why the sudden change of heart? 

*GP:* Vitaly Klitchko is a decent individual essentially. However, in this he is simply being maliciously used by those who are more adroit and more adept, and are exploiting the fact that he is perhaps not necessarily the most intelligent of characters. *What we have got now is a real drive to overthrow the government by Batkivshchina led by Yatsenyuk and Svoboda.* He knows that if Tymoshenko is released then his tenure as a caretaker leader of that party is over. 
In any case the election for a new president of Ukraine is only a year away, and you have two parties who have huge interests – Batkivshchina and Svoboda – who have effectively allied, pushed for that election now, and they believe that in that case they can position their men – Yatsenuk or Tyahnybok as a president of Ukraine. Klitchko doesn’t see, what’s going on. Effectively they are putting the bodies of the fundamentalists on the front line. 

_The statements, views and opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of RT._


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## Old_John (Aug 21, 2013)

*Batko10*, I can certainly appreciate a well thought-out opinion on the subject, but can you PLEASE stop overwhelming this thread with your strongly biased posts? Everyone should be able to express their point of view here. But so far, it's been you, yourself, and thou. Imposing your ideas much? 

Yes, we get it, EU and USA are full of shit (duh!), but at the very least, the fucked up bi-partisan system here currently ensures the conservatives and liberals hate each other significantly enough NOT to allow to turn the country into dictatorship, which, in my opinion, is WAY better than uncle Vlad and his one-party model of micro-managing the country deciding what's best for the people, making it devoid of any political alternatives, shutting down an independent media, and essentially denying liberties for the minorities which are universally taken for granted in the Western world. 

I live in Baltimore and we have a HUGE Russian community here, and I can absolutely assure you, every single Russian friend of mine I've talked to about it has a VERY negative opinion of Putin's oppressive regime.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Old_John said:


> *Batko10*, I can certainly appreciate a well thought-out opinion on the subject, but can you PLEASE stop overwhelming this thread with your strongly biased posts? Everyone should be able to express their point of view here. But so far, it's been you, yourself, and thou. Imposing your ideas much?
> 
> Yes, we get it, EU and USA are full of shit (duh!), but at the very least, the fucked up bi-partisan system here currently ensures the conservatives and liberals hate each other significantly enough NOT to allow to turn the country into dictatorship, which, in my opinion, is WAY better than uncle Vlad and his one-party model of micro-managing the country deciding what's best for the people, making it devoid of any political alternatives, shutting down an independent media, and essentially denying liberties for the minorities which are universally taken for granted in the Western world.
> 
> I live in Baltimore and we have a HUGE Russian community here, and I can absolutely assure you, every single Russian friend of mine I've talked to about it has a VERY negative opinion of Putin's oppressive regime.


First of all, most of my posts have been in response to other posts or questions thrown out by the OP. The last couple of posts regarding Ukraine were not in response to other posts. However, since nobody has been posting on the thread they created some activity. Besides, this is the biggest news for the region and I gave the other side of the picture - not the one-sided, pro-terrorist western media version.

Regarding Putin, I never said that he wasn't a dictator and I never said that I was a big fan of his. My problem is with the hypocrisy and lies of Washington and its NATO allies over the last two decades since the dissolution of the Soviet Union. 

The Ukraine today is under attack by terrorists/separatists who would not be tolerated for 5 minutes in the US or an EU country. Instead of either keeping their noses out of it or condemning the violence perpetrated by the revolutionary element, the West supports violent regime change in Ukraine as it has supported such change in other countries.

The opinion of your "Russian" friends in Baltimore is to be expected since they are living here and not in Russia trying to change the situation that they gripe about. Out of curiosity, are they ethnic Russians or members of other ethnic groups that left the country? 

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

I hate EU, I hate NATO, I hate Putin. Everybody, just mind your own business and leave other countries alone, OK?


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## InTheAirTonight (Jan 1, 2014)

You're in NATO territory though. What are you doing here?


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

InTheAirTonight said:


> You're in NATO territory though. What are you doing here?


I live there, duh. If I had the choice, Lithuania wouldn't be in neither EU nor NATO.


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## Muerte al fascismo (Feb 3, 2008)

I like the point Vitali made recently. Russia doesn't see Ukraine as an equal partner, rather a little brother in its sphere of influence. Ukraine will never full realize its potential under the stray jacket of Russian Influence.

Compare Poland to Ukraine and you can understand why there are the Pro-EU voices.

As for Russia, it should've been sanctioned a long time ago for its treatment towards minority, homosexual and Lesbian communities.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Muerte al fascismo said:


> I like the point Vitali made recently. Russia doesn't see Ukraine as an equal partner, rather a little brother in its sphere of influence. Ukraine will never full realize its potential under the stray jacket of Russian Influence.
> 
> Compare Poland to Ukraine and you can understand why there are the Pro-EU voices.
> 
> As for Russia, it should've been sanctioned a long time ago for its treatment towards minority, homosexual and Lesbian communities.


The EU would *not* see Ukraine as an equal partner either, just another post-Soviet country to exploit. At least Russia looks at Ukraine as a "little brother." The key word here being "*brother*" Eastern Slavic people.

Support for the EU in Poland has been dropping steadily. While pro-EU supporters are still in the majority, many Poles realize that Poland was taken for a ride. With no jobs in the country huge numbers have moved to the UK and EU nations. This is exactly what the EU wanted - cheap Eastern European labor to replace the more expensive labor of its native citizens.

Russia's treatment of homosexuals is a moot point. The Russian Federation repealed the Soviet laws that *criminalized* homosexuality. The legislation recently enacted by the State Duma does *NOT* criminalize homosexuality. It only restricts the propagandizing of homosexuality to children. That's a big difference. 

Not as visible, but much more ominous for homosexuals, are the forces that are creating a civil war in Ukraine. The Western Ukrainians, who are behind the recent upheaval, are the descendants of the very people who fought for the Third Reich and fascism. Their grandfathers guarded the death camps and pulled the switches that released the Zyclon B gas in the chambers.

As someone who is concerned with homosexual rights, what do you think is going to happen to homosexuals if, God forbid, the Western Ukrainians with the help of the US and EU overthrow the government??? These people are neo-Nazis. After they liquidate their political opponents homosexuals are right on the top of their list of targets. And these guys are going to do more than pass legislation!

Don't be fooled by the lies that the western media is feeding you. The US and EU have only their own personal economic interests at heart. They will help the neo-Nazis in Ukraine if it gets them economic control of the country. They would help the Devil himself if it was economically beneficial to their interests.

- Mike


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## Old_John (Aug 21, 2013)

Batko10 said:


> As someone who is concerned with homosexual rights, what do you think is going to happen to homosexuals if, God forbid, the Western Ukrainians with the help of the US and EU overthrow the government??? These people are neo-Nazis. After they liquidate their political opponents homosexuals are right on the top of their list of targets. And these guys are going to do more than pass legislation!
> 
> Don't be fooled by the lies that the western media is feeding you. The US and EU have only their own personal economic interests at heart. They will help the neo-Nazis in Ukraine if it gets them economic control of the country. They would help the Devil himself if it was economically beneficial to their interests.
> 
> - Mike


You are absolutely and horribly WRONG! 99% of the protesters are NOT some kind of neo-nazi's. It's like labeling all Juventus fans neo-nazi's just because there is a small faction of so called 'Ultras' fans who are traditionally right-wing, racist and violent (there's a crazy bunch like that in almost every European football club nowadays). Does that make millions and millions of other Juve fans "neo-nazi"?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Old_John said:


> You are absolutely and horribly WRONG! 99% of the protesters are NOT some kind of neo-nazi's. It's like labeling all Juventus fans neo-nazi's just because there is a small faction of so called 'Ultras' fans who are traditionally right-wing, racist and violent (there's a crazy bunch like that in almost every European football club nowadays). Does that make millions and millions of other Juve fans "neo-nazi"?


Like most Americans, you are absolutely ignorant of the history of Ukraine. And, believe me, I'm not mocking you or anyone else. It's not your fault, because you have never been told the truth.

The Ukrainians in what is called Western Ukraine did, in fact, welcome the Nazi German invaders in 1941 and *willingly worked with them throughout the occupation*. They willingly served as death camp guards, policemen, gravediggers, and executioners for the occupying Nazis. In fact, they were better Nazis than the Nazis! 

When the Nazi officers became concerned that executing so many Jews and partisan guerilla fighters would adversely affect the psychological health of their troops *they recruited the Western Ukrainians who jumped at the chance to kill Jews.
*
If you look at the logistics of where the trouble has spread today you will see it is in Lviv, Ivano-Frankivsk, Lutsk, Ternopil, Rivne, Chernivtsi, and other cities and regions only in *WESTERN UKRAINE*. The spread of the trouble is in the same regions where the Nazis were welcomed during the war. *The rest of Ukraine is quiet. * The trouble is in the West and is being instigated by the West, i.e. the U.S. and E.U.

The ultra-nationalist/fascist culture is very strong in Western Ukraine. After the western instigated "*Orange Revolution*" in *2004* brought Yushchenko and the Western Ukrainians to power the fascist culture of Western Ukraine began to be rammed down the throats of the Ukrainian people. 

*Stepan Bandera*, murderer and one of the heads of the *Ukrainian Insurgent Army* that fought for the Nazis, was officially made a state hero by the Yushchenko regime. The infamous anti-Semite, leader of anti-Jewish pogroms *Simyon Petlura *was raised up as an iconic figure. And the U.S. and E.U. went along with this and other travesties simply because Yushchenko was going to give up Ukraine to NATO and to the EU.

This should not surprise anyone who is familiar with U.S. post-WW II immigration policy. U.S. immigration turned a blind eye to the war time activities of most Western Ukrainians in order to allow them to enter the U.S. as *DPs*, i.e. "*Displaced Persons*." 

Washington allowed Western Ukrainian Nazi collaborators to immigrate because they were anti-Soviet and would create a solid base for anti-Soviet activities in the West. Canada also allowed around a million Ukrainians into the country after WW II and did very little to check out their war time activities.

Seriously, you have no idea what you are talking about regarding the Western Ukrainians and the make up of the participants of the present day terrorist, revolutionary riots in Ukraine. 

- Mike 

*MEMBERS OF THE PRO-FASCIST "SVOBODA" PARTY MARCH IN WESTERN UKRAINE *


















*PRO-NAZIS MARCH IN LVIV, WESTERN UKRAINE*


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

I won't even comment on this. Make of it what you will.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

And also, there's this Ukrainian channel that shows live feed of what is happening there: http://www.onlinesat-tv.com/online.php?tv=5_Kanal&id=896


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## Muerte al fascismo (Feb 3, 2008)

The ruling party need to form a transitional government with Vitali's faction and the girl in prison's faction, with a new set of elections planned. With the way Ukraine is split, a civil war would get very bloody fast, whilst gifting the extremists of both sides operational control.

I wouldn't put it past Russia to militarily intervene, which again would be a disaster and draw in other players. Crazy frustrating how stubborn and arrogant politicians can be.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

The message they play through the speakers (watch live stream I posted) is really creepy for some reason. It's like when you play a video game about some post-apocalyptic war and this is exactly the message that would play during the last mission. And Aerosmith's I Don't Wanna Miss A Thing they play in the message as well.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Muerte al fascismo said:


> The ruling party need to form a transitional government with Vitali's faction and the girl in prison's faction, with a new set of elections planned. With the way Ukraine is split, a civil war would get very bloody fast, whilst gifting the extremists of both sides operational control.
> 
> I wouldn't put it past Russia to militarily intervene, which again would be a disaster and draw in other players. Crazy frustrating how stubborn and arrogant politicians can be.


With all due respect, you still don't quite get it despite all the evidence presented in this thread. 

1. These people are *NOT* a political opposition willing to work within the framework of Ukraine's constitution. They are *NOT* protestors - they are revolutionary terrorists whose goal is the overthrow of the legitimate, elected government of Ukraine.

2. Presidential elections are scheduled to take place in about a year. The rioters know that they do *NOT* have the votes to get back into power, so they are following the formula that got them into power the last time in 2004 - civil disturbances and open riots.

3. The "girl" in prison (Tymoshenko) is a radical, ultra-nationalist whose main supporters are in the ranks of the rioters. She is also a thief (and possibly a murderess), but that is another story.

4. Vitaly Klitschko should stick to boxing. Obviously, you don't see that his faction has been de-facto taken over and run by the fascist, ultra-nationalist element that makes up the base of his organization. The fact that he may be a "good guy" and have "good intentions" is irrelevant at this point. The people in his faction are participating in the rioting and are fascist Western Ukrainian separatists.

- Mike


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## Muerte al fascismo (Feb 3, 2008)

Batko10 said:


> With all due respect, you still don't quite get it despite all the evidence presented in this thread.
> 
> 1. These people are *NOT* a political opposition willing to work within the framework of Ukraine's constitution. They are *NOT* protestors - they are revolutionary terrorists whose goal is the overthrow of the legitimate, elected government of Ukraine.
> 
> ...


Tbh, all I see is you going on a tangent and tarring all opposition as terrorists and fascists. This is politics, there will always be hard-left and hard-right factions within every party. The ruling government has an alliance with communists, you still have to deal with them.

Name-calling will result in violence and a war where nobody wins. Regardless of what you think of Tymoshenko, she has supporters that must be negotiated with. A main reason why extremists are gaining traction is because peaceful protest has been outlawed/severely restricted/repressed and the diplomatic negotiations have been stalling. Most outside observers have already called her imprisonment unlawful, so of course some members of the opposition still feel rightly aggrieved. 

When a large proportion of your population is clearly against a ruling governments policy, if you have a care for your country, you negotiate. This government have lost the mandate for governing a large section of Ukrainian society. The only way to resolve this will ultimately be civil war or new elections, without the same political interference as the last one. Democracy doesn't work by ignoring an entire sections issues till civil disturbance arises. The social contract has been broken, therefore a new transitional government is needed, while the timetable for a new set of elections is agreed between the warring parties.

Being stubborn and branding the opposition all terrorists achieves nothing. The best politicians learn to compromise.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Most forum members are totally unaware of what went on in Ukraine during the tenure of *Viktor Yushchenko *as President of Ukraine and his ally *Yulia Tymoshenko* from 2005 to 2010. (The power hungry pair, Yushchenkko and Tymoshenko, later had a falling out, but initially they were allies.) 

With the western instigated "Orange Revolution" bringing him to power and the open support of the US, EU, and NATO *Yushchenko began the implementation of the fascist program of the Western Ukrainians. 
*
The first step was to revise history and create heroes out of the Nazi collaborators. *Bandera* and *Petlyura*, were given national hero status. Western Ukrainians who not only collaborated with, but murdered for the Nazis were raised to the status of "*patriots*."

*The second step was to deny native Russian speakers the right to use their language.* Russian language TV and radio stations were shut down and draconian laws penalizing the use of Russian were drawn up. With the backing of the US and NATO Yushchenko got over confident and made a huge tactical error with his discriminatory language legislation. Over 40% of Ukraine's population consider Russian their native language and 70% of the population can speak Russian.

*The third step was to put down the Orthodox Church *which has been a symbol of Ukraine since the Baptism of Kievan Rus over 1,000 years ago. This was another major tactical error that the overconfident fascist Yushchenko made. As expected it went over without problems in Western Ukraine where Uniate Catholics dragged Orthodox priests out of churches and beat them senseless while the government looked the other way. However, the overwhelming majority of believers in the rest of Ukraine are Eastern Orthodox Christians and this anti-Orthodox campaign backfired as did the anti-Russian language legislation.

Lastly, despite what you read and hear in the Western media, the majority of Ukrainians are against joining NATO. To the delight of Washington, Yushchenko was dragging Ukraine into the ranks of NATO without any polling or consulting of the Ukrainian people.

The present day riots and revolutionary activity against the duly elected, legitimate government of Ukraine are being conducted because these "gains" of the Western Ukrainians during the Yushchenko/Tymoshenko years have been reversed by Yanukovich and his government. 

*WITH THE REPEAL OF ANTI-RUSSIAN LANGUAGE LAWS BY VIKTOR YANUKOVICH'S GOVERNMENT, RUSSIAN IS BECOMING A DE-FACTO 2ND NATIONAL LANGUAGE AND IS NO LONGER DISCRIMINATED AGAINST AS IT WAS UNDER THE WESTERN UKRAINIAN GOVERNMENT OF VIKTOR YUSHCHENKO.*







[/URL][/IMG]


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Muerte al fascismo said:


> Tbh, all I see is you going on a tangent and tarring all opposition as terrorists and fascists. Being stubborn and branding the opposition all terrorists achieves nothing. The best politicians learn to compromise.


I wasn't on a tangent. In fact, I stated exactly what is going on. 

I agree that politics involves compromise. However, the people in the streets in Ukraine are involved in revolution, *NOT* democratic politics. 

- Mike

P.S. BTW, as you can see from my previous post, the Western Ukrainian government of Yushchenko was not very flexible in its relations with the rest of the population of Ukraine. They didn't give an inch, let alone compromise.


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## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Only entered this thd to say that I live in Eastern Europe, Romania more precisely and it fuckin sucks. We're like 20 years behind the modern countries like Germany or France, not even mentioning US here


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

> Ukrainian Prime Minister Mykola Azarov resigned on Tuesday while deputies loyal to President Viktor Yanukovich, acting to calm violent street protests, back-tracked and overturned anti-protest laws they rammed through parliament 12 days ago.
> 
> The first concrete concessions by Yanukovich since the crisis erupted two months ago brought cries of 'Hurrah!' from several thousand demonstrators on Kiev's Independence Square, focal point of the protests.
> 
> ...


Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/28/us-ukraine-azarov-idUSBREA0R0BR20140128

So prime minister of Ukraine has resigned, huh.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/28/us-ukraine-azarov-idUSBREA0R0BR20140128
> 
> So prime minister of Ukraine has resigned, huh.


The new legislation restricting protests has been repealed and the PM has resigned as a sign of good faith. Let's see what the Western Ukrainians do next. 

If they don't leave the streets and end the rioting then President Yanukovich will have justification for declaring a state of emergency and calling out the military. Even the biased western media won't be able to fault him since he compromised in order to end the bloodshed.

I have a hunch that this is only going to get worse. The ultra-nationalist Western Ukrainians are going to continue to make demands that will be more and more unreasonable. And, this is part of the program for revolution. Keep making demands until it gets to the point where the other side says, "Go fuck yourself." Then you have an excuse to go out and riot some more.

Anything else that they want has to be run by the Supreme Court of Ukraine or voted on by the Supreme Rada. And, when those decisions are made they should not be made looking down the barrel of a Western Ukrainian gun. What they can't win at the polls the fascists will try to take by force with the help of the US and EU.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Belarus to mark International Holocaust Remembrance Day


27.01.2014 12:54


MINSK, 27 January (BelTA) – Belarus will mark International Holocaust Remembrance Day with film screenings and theater performances on January 27, BelTA learned from the UN public information department in Belarus.

In observance of the *International Day of Commemoration in Memory of the Victims of the Holocaust *the UN Resident Coordinator Office and the Italian Embassy in Belarus will hold a number of important cultural events.

On 27 January the National Center for Children and Youth Arts will show the theatrical production "Voices of the Shoah”. Its characters - the three survivors of the concentration camp - tell of their experiences. 

On the same day the Pobeda cinema house will screen the documentary Blinky & Me by Polish director Tomasz Magierski. The untold story of Australian animator, Yoram Gross, comes to life in this film that follows the artist and his family through his childhood in the Nazi occupied Poland, in Israel, where he began creating animated art films, all the way to Australia.

Before the screening the audience will be addressed by representatives of the UN Office in Belarus, the Embassy of the State of Israel, and the Union of Belarusian Jewish Public Organizations and Communities.

In addition, on 27 January the Tsentralny cinema house will show Mumin Shakirov’s “Holocaust - Wallpaper Glue?” The Otkrytoye Kino company is the distributor of this film in Belarus, a participant of the Moscow and Budapest international film festivals, the Boston Jewish Film Festival. 

Director by Mumin Shakirov, operator Vyacheslav Makarov and the main characters of the film-sisters Ksenia and Evgenia Karatygins will present the film "Holocaust-wallpaper glue?" on the premiere show in Minsk. 

On 27 January, International Holocaust Remembrance Day, the global community marks one of the most tragic pages in the human history. It is not by chance that the UN General Assembly chose this date for commemoration. *On 27 January 1945 the Soviet Army liberated the Nazis’ biggest death camp Oswiecim.* Over a million of people were killed in the camp during the war. All in all, an estimated number of Holocaust victims exceeded 6 million Jews.

*Over 800,000 Jews died in Belarus during WWII.* A considerable part of those who escaped death, i.e. *some 30,000 of Jews, survived mostly thanks to the courage of those who were named the Righteous Among the Nations after the war. 
*

*HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL COMPLEX "YAMA" IN BELARUS*


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_"WE DEFENDED LENINGRAD - WE WILL RESSURECT IT!

_

Heroism and horror of Leningrad siege remembered 70 years later
*SAINT PETERSBURG/LENINGRAD*: President Vladimir Putin said on Monday the memory of *Russia's heroism and sacrifice during World War II must endure as the country marked the 70th anniversary of the lifting of the Nazi siege of Leningrad.
*
The 61-year-old leader said the world should never forget “the courage and heroism of the Soviet people and residents of Leningrad” as he participated in commemorative ceremonies in his native Saint Petersburg, known as Leningrad under the Soviet Union.

The near two-and-a-half-year siege — 872 days in all — by Nazi forces between September 1941 and January 1944 is seared into the national consciousness as one of the darkest moments in Russian history.

Taking Leningrad was a strategic part of Adolf Hitler's ultimately failed plan to eliminate the Soviet Union as a threat to German domination of Europe.

The assault is considered one of the most devastating sieges in history, with *German commanders calculating that starvation would be their most effective weapon.
*
*“360,000 civilians died in Leningrad over a period of just four months from the end of 1941 to the start of 1942,” *Putin said at a meeting with war veterans and survivors of the siege.

*Britain lost nearly the same amount in the entire World War II*.

*“Can you imagine the difference between the victims that the Soviet Union and other countries of the world laid on the altar of common victory?”* Surrounded by several dozen survivors of the siege, Putin earlier visited the famed Piskaryovskoe Memorial Cemetery, the main memorial to the victims of the siege.

Putin also honoured the memory of his elder brother who died during the blockade and was buried at the cemetery in a mass grave, the Kremlin said.

The president also laid flowers at a memorial on the banks of the Neva River marking the site of one of the most important battles during the siege in which his father participated as a soldier.

*The blockade of Leningrad claimed the lives of more than a million people, according to historians*.

Most of them died of hunger and exhaustion during an extremely cold winter at the beginning of the siege from 1941 to 1942 when rations fell to just 125 grams of bread per person for white-collar workers and municipal heating was switched off.

*People were forced to eat pets, earth and glue and some even resorted to cannibalism.
*
Dead bodies littered the streets for days as the survivors were too weak to bury the deceased.

Early on Monday, some 1,500 people took part in a military parade showcasing Soviet-era war-time T-34 tanks as well as modern Iskander ballistic missiles.

In the run-up to the anniversary the local authorities put together an exhibition reconstructing part of a street in the city centre with siege-related artifacts like sandbags, boarded-up windows, theatre bills and old cars and trolleybuses.

“When I look at the chronicles and the pictures I can barely hold back tears,” said Natalia Zvereva, 60, who brought her grandchild to see the exhibition. “It was such an awful time.” Sergei Stepanenko, 45, added: “My grandmother survived the blockade. She could not talk about it. It was too horrible.”—AFP


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## napalmdestruction (Nov 8, 2013)

Are you all crazy? The EU is obviously the better option for any country out there. Those countries should do everything they can to separate themselves from Russia.

But whatever, every country east of germany is pretty much worthless. The good people living there should immigrate as soon as possible because that part of the world is beyond repair. Unless you want to grow up to be a drunk moron who only wants to fight you should get out of there. Especially the women who sooner or later will be forced to prostitute themselves by their families, boyfriends or kidnappers.


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

napalmdestruction said:


> Are you all crazy? The EU is obviously the better option for any country out there. Those countries should do everything they can to separate themselves from Russia.
> 
> But whatever, every country east of germany is pretty much worthless. The good people living there should immigrate as soon as possible because that part of the world is beyond repair. Unless you want to grow up to be a drunk moron who only wants to fight you should get out of there. Especially the women who sooner or later will be forced to prostitute themselves by their families, boyfriends or kidnappers.


ok.

I can pretty comfortably say that things here are at least just about as good as they are where you live.

Obvious troll is obvious, but still.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

napalmdestruction said:


> Are you all crazy? The EU is obviously the better option for any country out there. Those countries should do everything they can to separate themselves from Russia.
> 
> But whatever, every country east of germany is pretty much worthless. The good people living there should immigrate as soon as possible because that part of the world is beyond repair. Unless you want to grow up to be a drunk moron who only wants to fight you should get out of there. Especially the women who sooner or later will be forced to prostitute themselves by their families, boyfriends or kidnappers.


This is obviously a troll attempting to disrupt the thread. I'm not going to fall for the bait. 

However, if someone feels that the EU is a better option than the Customs Union for Ukraine or other post-Soviet countries then they should argue for their claim using facts and figures in an analysis of the two economic blocs.

- Mike


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## napalmdestruction (Nov 8, 2013)

Allur said:


> ok.
> 
> I can pretty comfortably say that things here are at least just about as good as they are where you live.
> 
> Obvious troll is obvious, but still.


Don't you live in Finland? Finland is Scandinavia, not eastern europe. Finland is great and shouldn't be compared to the Ukraine, Romania, Poland, Russia, Hungary, Slovenia, Slovakia, Kazakhstan, Georgia, Macedonia, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Kosovo, Serbia, Montenegro, Azerbaijan...

All those places are beyond repair. They have a culture of violence deeply engrained in their society and their people. The corruption runs deep into everything, all levels of government... It's a dirty, dirty situation. 

The European Union is the best solution. It's easy to find excuses nowadays, do revisionist history and give examples such as Greece, Portugal and Spain to criticize the EU but the truth is that if those countries had never joined the EU they would be even worse than they're today, and to be fair, none of their problems were caused by joining the EU per se. If you go back in time you'd see that it was very hard to find someone who was against the EU expansions, either in 1986, 1995 or the large expansion of 2004, not to mention the implementation of the EURO, who most people agreed upon. Informal surveys at the time showed that the EURO was almost universally accepted by everyone as the best solution for the future, especially for smaller countries who would face extreme economic consequences if they prefered to move ahead with their own currencies. There were times in the late 80s and during the 90s where the financial support from the EU allowed many countries to develop at a much faster pace than they would have otherwise, Greece and Portugal included, the same countries that now are whining and complaining about the EU. The real responsabilities lay in their own flawed and corrupt governments, and the people who voted for the same people over and over again, paying no attention to what they were really doing because everything was alright and money was easy. The 2004 Athens Olympics are among the most incompetently handled events in history, for example. Unbelievable amounts of money went to unnecessary places (so many facilities that were never ever used again) and to the corrupt organisms that lobbied for them.

This is to say that the EU is not the root of evil as many try to portray it and those eastern europe countries need to turn themselves to the west as quickly as possible. That's the will of the people. At least western europe is democratic and free, promotes free speech and individual liberties and it doesn't give sovereign authority to oil patrons who corrupt every private and public entity and finance badly-disguised right-wing, fascist dictatorships such as Russia and Hungary.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Here is an excellent video debate on the situation in Ukraine that just came out a few hours ago.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

I just found this map on Wikipedia, which says that Lithuania and other Baltic states are in Northern Europe.










It's a little complicated, as I've said before, living in Lithuania I feel it's like 50/50,


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## napalmdestruction (Nov 8, 2013)

Batko10 said:


> Here is an excellent video debate on the situation in Ukraine that just came out a few hours ago.


This was interesting though RT is widely known to be owned and financed by the russian government and they have an almost laughable and propagandistic pro-Russia bias.

But it went in the direction of what I was saying. Those countries are almost hopeless because of the centuries and centuries of bad blood and continuous political and social conflicts. There's so much hatred and violence rooted in history that it's almost as if they're always on the verge of conflict. I'm sure there are some countries less affected than others but the overall scenario is pretty much the same. It's very hard to not let yourself be submerged and influenced by that environment of anger and violence. That's why heavy metal and all those other types of extreme music are very predominant in those nordic and eastern european countries. It's a deep rooted cultural issue.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

napalmdestruction said:


> This was interesting though RT is widely known to be owned and financed by the russian government and they have an almost laughable and propagandistic pro-Russia bias.
> 
> But it went in the direction of what I was saying. Those countries are almost hopeless because of the centuries and centuries of bad blood and continuous political and social conflicts. There's so much hatred and violence rooted in history that it's almost as if they're always on the verge of conflict. I'm sure there are some countries less affected than others but the overall scenario is pretty much the same. It's very hard to not let yourself be submerged and influenced by that environment of anger and violence. *That's why heavy metal and all those other types of extreme music are very predominant in those nordic and eastern european countries. It's a deep rooted cultural issue.*


And when I thought you couldn't get more retarded. Please explain how Heavy Metal is a cultural issue.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

napalmdestruction said:


> This was interesting though RT is widely known to be owned and financed by the russian government and they have an almost laughable and propagandistic pro-Russia bias...


And the media in the U.S. and E.U. has an almost laughable and propagandistic pro-West, anti-Russian bias. This was brought out in the video discussion a number of times by the correspondent in France. 

Despite being shown on RT, this video discussion was a great deal more balanced than the pro-revolutionary, biased coverage on Ukraine that one sees in the Western media as a whole.




napalmdestruction said:


> But it went in the direction of what I was saying. Those countries are almost hopeless because of the centuries and centuries of bad blood and continuous political and social conflicts. There's so much hatred and violence rooted in history that it's almost as if they're always on the verge of conflict..


And your solution is that joining the EU will end the bad blood and problems that have existed for centuries??? This is as absurd as lumping all Eastern European nations in one category as you did.

Western Europe has also had its share of "bad blood" and "social conflicts" over the centuries. May I remind you that the among other travesties the bloodbath of the *Inquisition* and the horrors of *Nazism* are Western European phenomena.

Your attitude toward Eastern Europeans is akin to the attitude of Western Europeans toward their colonies in the 17th and 18th centuries which was personified by the slogan, "*THE WHITE MAN'S BURDEN."
*
Your bigotry is *NOT *welcome here.

- Mike


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## napalmdestruction (Nov 8, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> And when I thought you couldn't get more retarded. Please explain how Heavy Metal is a cultural issue.


If there's a retarded thing here it is your reading comprehension. Heavy Metal is not the cultural issue but the deep-rooted violence and hate culture is and one of the ways it manifests itself is through the love for agressive and violent music like Heavy Metal and its derivatives.



Batko10 said:


> And the media in the U.S. and E.U. has an almost laughable and propagandistic pro-West, anti-Russian bias. This was brought out in the video discussion a number of times by the correspondent in France.
> 
> Despite being shown on RT, this video discussion was a great deal more balanced than the pro-revolutionary, biased coverage on Ukraine that one sees in the Western media as a whole.


Maybe the pro-West bias is justified seeing as how the West doesn't unfairly imprison people simply because they speak against their political leaders. In Russia that's a pretty common occurrence apparently. 



Batko10 said:


> And your solution is that joining the EU will end the bad blood and problems that have existed for centuries??? This is as absurd as lumping all Eastern European nations in one category as you did.
> 
> Western Europe has also had its share of "bad blood" and "social conflicts" over the centuries. May I remind you that the among other travesties the bloodbath of the *Inquisition* and the horrors of *Nazism* are Western European phenomena.
> 
> ...


Yes and no. Western europe and America do have its issues, of course but it's by far the lesser of the two evils. Just take a look at a spanish football game and a russian one, where black players are constantly heckled with insults and even banana throwing, something so ridiculously ignorant, boneheaded and racist that it's almost literally unbelievable that it still happens in the modern world (and to Roberto Carlos, a living legend, nonetheless). Not to mention the homosexuality controversy.

Nazism came in a strange period in history when the entire world was consummed with evil and your beloved Russia (or the USSR) has a very infamous past that almost rivals with the Nazi period of Germany or did you forget the horrors of Stalin's regime? And if you continue going east through Asia won't you be faced with the atrocities commited by the japanese during the same historical period?

A good example to validate my point is the current situation in Hungary with the criminalization of homelessness. The European parliament jumped on it almost instantly and is trying to prevent this embarrassing abuse of the human rights, in the twentieth century it's incredible that a civilized country could have such a disregard for basic human decency but thanks to the efforts of the EU and its threats of heavy penalties Hungary will have a very hard time continuing to uphold that law.

Eastern Europe is many years behind the rest of Europe in many aspects and their integration in the EU will help to accelerate this process of progress and development.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

napalmdestruction said:


> Maybe the pro-West bias is justified seeing as how the West doesn't unfairly imprison people simply because they speak against their political leaders. In Russia that's a pretty common occurrence apparently.


First of all, the video was discussing the situation in Ukraine and the Western media bias for the revolutionaries rioting in the street. The Western media ignores the crimes and evil of the rioters, much the same way that you ignore the dark side of the West and never give a straight answer. Sidestepping answering for the crimes of the West by bringing up something that was wrong elsewhere is a typical tactic of a provocateur, i.e. flamer.

Over the last 20 years it has been the U.S. and NATO that have initiated myriad regime changes, armed unstable leaders like Mikhail Saakashvili, and, when all else failed, openly invaded sovereign nations. Russian actions pale beside what has been perpetrated by the U.S. and NATO over the last two decades.

When the West's actions are analyzed, it would appear that a pro-West bias by the media is totally unjustified in the cold light of day. 

- Mike


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## napalmdestruction (Nov 8, 2013)

Talk about side-stepping arguments. You didn't argue any of my points and then you call me a flamer on top. You did exactly the same. You were trying to portray the West as evil because of Nazism when pretty much similar horrific events were happening in the Russia you were trying to defend. Yes, the West has wars and poverty and hatred like everywhere in this world but it's in a much better shape both socially and politically when compared to the situation in the eastern european states. It's more socially accepting, less discriminative and more culturally progressive.

The western european way of life is without a doubt the lesser of the two evils and you can ask anyone what would they prefer to live under and most of them would answer the west. That's the will of the people. *Srdjan99* said it, Romania for example is way behind western europe and it's time for a full integration so that all european nations can become equal, free and modern. Russia under Putin's regime is marching in exactly the opposite direction, with progressively fewer liberties, less free speech, an oppresive regime who is violent against their outspoken political adversaries and an economy dominated by mafia-like oil companies. Political freedom in Russia nowadays is merely an illusion with Putin jumping from one positions to another and putting puppets in his place when he's legally prohibited from his duties. It's no wonder the Ukrainian people want to separate themselves from that sort of regime - they've been there numerous times before and the country shows no signs of improvement.

You make it sound as if the entire group of rioters are neo-nazi sympathizers when in fact they're a small to somewhat significant part of the movement (which by the way supports my theory that those countries have large percentages of hateful and violent extremists with a desire for violence, even more so than other countries), a movement that is desired by most of the ukranian population, who's tired of their russian-like corrupt politics and wants to modernize itself in the european mold. The only people who are against Ukraine turning to western europe are the Russians and the russian sympathizers who are afraid of losing influence over the Ukraine.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

napalmdestruction said:


> Talk about side-stepping arguments. You didn't argue any of my points and then you call me a flamer on top. You did exactly the same. You were trying to portray the West as evil because of Nazism when pretty much similar horrific events were happening in the Russia you were trying to defend...


I didn't sidestep anything. I just won't keep answering your questions when you continue to answer our questions with questions. My mention of the Inquisition and Nazism were two examples of how the West is no better than the East. Your answer that "similar horrific events were happening in Russia" does not justify Nazism and remove the guilt from the West for its toleration of it. It just dances around my statement.

I could sit here and make lists of injustices in the West if you like - slavery of Africans, genocide of Native Americans, colonialism, anti-semitism, Nazism, Inquisition, etc., etc. And, you could sit back and make lists of injustices in the East. The bottom line is, the history of the West is blighted with just as many, if not more, evils than the East.

In actuality, you sound very much like a Nazi who looks at the people of Eastern Europe as "untermann." I believe your statement in one of your first posts says it all about you:

_"...*every country east of germany is pretty much worthless*." _

- Mike


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## napalmdestruction (Nov 8, 2013)

Now that's going too far. Calling me a nazi? What the hell is wrong with you?

Those countries are indeed pretty much worthless but not because of the people who live in them. It's that whole culture and mentality of violence and hatred that still prevails to this day. Just as I said in the same post, I think those people should immigrate to the west and live their lives peacefully instead of being constantly surrounded by that mentality of violence, hatred and corruption because it will take a while before things get better.

But how is this whole discussion of West and East's history relevant to the topic of the Ukrainian revolution? The only thing that matters is where each of those sections are at today and it is undeniable that looking West is the better solution for Ukraine's political and social problems. Sure, both of their pasts are stained with blood and ghosts of repression and you're right, maybe the west was even worse than the East, who cares, the only thing that should matter here is that Russia is going in the wrong direction at the moment and the Ukraine should separate themselves from it as soon as possible. Not sure if having a pro-boxer as your future leader is a good idea though, especially if you want to stay away from violence and war.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

napalmdestruction said:


> Now that's going too far. Calling me a nazi? What the hell is wrong with you?
> 
> Those countries are indeed pretty much worthless but not because of the people who live in them. It's that whole culture and mentality of violence and hatred that still prevails to this day. Just as I said in the same post, I think those people should immigrate to the west and live their lives peacefully instead of being constantly surrounded by that mentality of violence, hatred and corruption because it will take a while before things get better.
> 
> But how is this whole discussion of West and East's history relevant to the topic of the Ukrainian revolution? The only thing that matters is where each of those sections are at today and it is undeniable that looking West is the better solution for Ukraine's political and social problems. Sure, both of their pasts are stained with blood and ghosts of repression and you're right, maybe the west was even worse than the East, who cares, the only thing that should matter here is that Russia is going in the wrong direction at the moment and the Ukraine should separate themselves from it as soon as possible. Not sure if having a pro-boxer as your future leader is a good idea though, especially if you want to stay away from violence and war.


Well at least we're back on topic again. You are the one who made ethnically derogatory remarks about the countries of Eastern Europe and that's how we digressed from the topic. Calling you a Nazi may have been too strong. But, you definitely look at Eastern Europe from the perspective of a colonial exploiter who considers the people there beneath the people in Western Europe.

Be that as it may, from a logical perspective I don't know how you can say that Ukraine would be better off in the EU than in the Customs Union with Russia, Kazakhstan, Belarus (and Armenia)?

Economically, the Customs Union has much more to offer than the EU for example: 

- *NATURAL GAS *at *$160 *per 1,000 cubic meters rather than the *$430 *they would pay as EU members;
- *CRUDE OIL* at *40%* of the international price from both Kazakhstan and Russia instead of paying 100% as an EU member;
- *FREE ACCESS TO THE CUSTOM'S UNION MARKETS *where Ukraine already exports a third of its goods and gets 50% of its imports.
- *THE UKRAINIAN HRYVNIA *would remain the official currency of the country. Ukraine would not be forced to convert to the Euro and defacto relinguish its banking system to the EU.

*Seriously, the only thing I see in Ukraine's future if it joined the EU is a mass migration of Ukrainian workers to EU countries after the EU makes an economic wasteland out of the country.*

On the social side, ethnically Ukrainians are Eastern Slavs like the Byelorussians and Russians. Except for Western Ukrainians who make up around 25% of the population, most Ukrainians look at the other Eastern Slavs as their brothers and sisters. There is over a 1,000 year history starting with the Baptism of Kievan Rus into Orthodox Christianity that binds the Eastern Slavs (except, of course, the Western Ukrainians who are Uniate Catholics and have animosity toward Eastern Orthodoxy). 

The constant harping about "Russian oppression and exploitation of Ukraine" comes from the Western Ukrainian minority, not from the majority of Ukrainians.

- Mike


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

You know a topic is going well when posters are comparing each other to groups that committed genocide 

I have to say that that media and comment debates have convinced me, everyone sounds like a lunatic and I don't support anyone 

I'll have to use my traditional method of deciding an areas worth and political strategy










worth 6

not bad, not bad at all


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

stevefox1200 said:


> You know a topic is going well when posters are comparing each other to groups that committed genocide
> 
> I have to say that that media and comment debates have convinced me, everyone sounds like a lunatic and I don't support anyone
> 
> ...


What exactly do the numbers mean?


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

TomasThunder619 said:


> What exactly do the numbers mean?


Just the ultimate global simulation of all time










If you got 18 hours and a fetish for dice than you can learn every thing you need to know about geo politics in one or two easy rounds 

For instance I learned that Australia ain't worth shit unless I am playing with my house rules

I have an even more advanced version that I use to predict how conflicts in the future will play out


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

"*RISK*" has been around since I was a kid back in the late fifties and sixties. The only thing that is memorable about it are the absurd national and regional borders on the map on the board.:topic:

"*RISK*" is a game, what's happening in Ukraine at the present time is *NOT*.fpalm 

- Mike


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

napalmdestruction said:


> Don't you live in Finland? Finland is Scandinavia, not eastern europe. Finland is great and shouldn't be compared to the Ukraine, Romania, Poland, Russia, Hungary, Slovenia, Slovakia, Kazakhstan, Georgia, Macedonia, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Kosovo, Serbia, Montenegro, Azerbaijan...
> 
> All those places are beyond repair. They have a culture of violence deeply engrained in their society and their people. The corruption runs deep into everything, all levels of government... It's a dirty, dirty situation.


Only the far northern part of Finland is Scandinavia. That and us having a cross on the flag is really the only thing closer to Scandinavia than to Russia and (especially) the Baltic countries. The language is nothing similar to the Scandinavian languages and a bigger part of the people look more ********* (and generally Eastern European) than Scandinavian. 

I somewhat see your point about some of the Eastern countries (really just a small amount of them), but you're wrong on a lot of things too. For example, things are just fine in Estonia and it's not really corrupted at all. On Transparency International's study it finished 28th least corrupted county in the world, above countries like Czech Republic, Spain and Portugal and only a tiny bit behind the likes of the United States, France and Austria. It also ranks 13th in countries where the citizens have most personal freedom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_World_Liberty_Index) and 11th for economical freedom.

I'm not that familiar with the other Baltic countries, but as of my knowledge they are doing almost as well and much better than the likes of Russia and for example Belarus.


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## napalmdestruction (Nov 8, 2013)

stevefox1200 said:


> You know a topic is going well when posters are comparing each other to groups that committed genocide
> 
> I have to say that that media and comment debates have convinced me, everyone sounds like a lunatic and I don't support anyone
> 
> ...


I know it's a joke but Brazil a 2, the same as Somalia and Sierra Leone, says everything about the credibility of that method.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

napalmdestruction said:


> I know it's a joke but Brazil a 2, the same as Somalia and Sierra Leone, says everything about the credibility of that method.


Look who got humbled. LOL. Enough, get that trash out of here.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Anyway, back on topic. I've had this feeling for about a week now, that Ukraine is on brink of a civil war.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25939737

I hope it won'g get THAT serious.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> I'm not that familiar with the other Baltic countries, but as of my knowledge they are doing almost as well and much better than the likes of Russia and *for example Belarus*.


It looks like we are going to divert off of Ukraine for a moment while I respond to a comment by Allur regarding Belarus.

First of all, from an economic and social standpoint *Belarus is doing better than the other 14 post-Soviet nations, including Russia and the Baltic states.* Of the 15 post-Soviet states Belarus is in *NUMBER ONE *position in *HEALTH CARE, EDUCATION, LOWEST UNEMPLOYMENT, LOWEST INFANT MORTALITY, and LOWEST STRESS LEVELS. * 

The false impression that most people have in the West about Belarus and President Lukashenko is not because of a failed economic system or some mythical human rights violations. The president has been demonized because he refused to sell out Belarus to western capital. His refusal to join NATO and the EU along with his "market socialist" economic model made him a target of the West. 

The US has followed its tried and true method of regime change in a futile effort to unseat President Lukashenko - *demonize, infiltrate*, and *instigate*. The overwhelming majority of the Byelorussian people support the president. Despite throwing tens of millions of dollars at the opposition (i.e., *FIFTH COLUMN*) that they themselves created, the U.S. and its co-conspirators (mostly Germany) have been totally unsuccessful in implementing a regime change in Belarus. 

In Ukraine the situation is different due to the large number of Western Ukrainians who don't have enough votes, but certainly have enough manpower to create riots and disorder that could unseat the duly elected government.









[/URL][/IMG]










[/URL][/IMG]


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> It looks like we are going to divert off of Ukraine for a moment while I respond to a comment by Allur regarding Belarus.
> 
> First of all, from an economic and social standpoint *Belarus is doing better than the other 14 post-Soviet nations, including Russia and the Baltic states.* Of the 15 post-Soviet states Belarus is in *NUMBER ONE *position in *HEALTH CARE, EDUCATION, LOWEST UNEMPLOYMENT, LOWEST INFANT MORTALITY, and LOWEST STRESS LEVELS. *
> 
> ...


Fair enough. I wanted another nation to go along with Russia on the post and Belarus was the first one to come to mind with its (alleged) lack of human rights, freedom of speech etc. having been on the news a lot lately. Looks like they're doing quite well though, my bad.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> Fair enough. I wanted another nation to go along with Russia on the post and Belarus was the first one to come to mind with its (alleged) lack of human rights, freedom of speech etc. having been on the news a lot lately. Looks like they're doing quite well though, my bad.


No problem! We're here to exchange information and points of view without attacking each other or degrading other ethnicities and their cultures. I appreciate that you took the time to check out my post and the data in it. Since you live in Finland, why don't you take a trip to Belarus? It's not that far from you. I think that you would be pleasantly surprised at how the people live there.

Just as an FYI, I'm an American, but ethnically both sides of my family are from Byelorussia. My mom's side is from the west-*Grodno*, and my dad's side from the east-*Minsk *(i.e. *Slootsk* in Minskaya Oblast). 

The first time I was in Byelorussia was in *1970* when I spent a month living with my relatives on my dad's side. When I left I actually spent a month in Helsinki. Your language is really tough, but I felt comfortable there. They had a Russian Orthodox Cathedral I could go to, and all the movies were in English with Finnish and Swedish subtitles. Paradoxically, I could sit in the movie theater and watch the films in English while the local people had to read the subtitles.:lol From Finland I went on to Australia where I lived two years and worked in the mines.

Fast forwarding past my years as a police officer in NYC, I was married in Kharkov (Kharkiv), Ukrainian SSR in 1989 to a local "Kharkovchanka," i.e. girl from Kharkov, in the Orthodox Cathedral in the city center. My son was born in Kharkov in 1990 and christened there. In 1990 we moved to Moscow where I worked for a major American company as laiason to the Soviet side of their joint venture (a major Soviet company). We left and moved to Minnesota in 1996. 

I've volunteered an abbreviated biography to emphasize that when I discuss this area of the world *I am not just talking through my hat.* I speak, read, and write Russian; understand Ukrainian and some Polish; have had interaction on a social and business level there in both pre and post-Soviet times.

I get upset about the Nazis, because over half my family was murdered by them during the German occupation of Byelorussia during the Great Patriotic War. My family all served in the military against the Hitlerites. *My dad was a U.S. Army Sgt*. who fought his way through France, Beligium, Netherlands, and was finally shot and wounded in Germany. *One uncle was a U.S. Army corporal* and served against the Japanese in the Pacific Theater. *My other uncle served in the Soviet Navy*. He loved my son very much and spoiled him when we used to visit the Kolkhoz. He passed away in November of last year. *Царство ему небесное!

*This is very personal for me and I will not sit idly by while some people (*NOT* you) belittle Eastern Europeans as some kind of culturally/socially depraved group.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

US, EU meddling in Ukraine battle

_*William Engdahl is an award-winning geopolitical analyst and strategic risk consultant whose internationally best-selling books have been translated into thirteen foreign languages.* _


Published time: January 30, 2014 08:40 

In the heat of recent exchanges and deaths of protesters in Ukraine, *many have lost sight of the insidious role key players in Washington and certain EU countries are playing.
*
Their agenda seems to be to force an immediate end to the elected Yanukovich government in Kiev and lock Ukraine into the EU and, ultimately, NATO. *Washington’s agenda has little to do with ‘democracy and freedom’, and a lot to do with destabilizing Putin’s Russia. 
*
On Sunday, January 19, the eight-week-long series of protests and demonstrations against the government of President Viktor Yanukovich in Kiev escalated to a new level of violence. Bands of right-wing militants called Pravy Sektor (Right Sector), attacked Ukrainian police guarding government buildings and attempting to contain the protesters.

*POLICE OFFICER FIGHTS FOR HIS LIFE AFTER BEING HIT WITH A MOLOTOV COCKTAIL THROWN BY A RIOTER*









*Enter the Neo-Nazis* 

Demonstrators threw Molotov cocktails at riot police from the top of the Dynamo Kiev football stadium in central Kiev beginning January 19. Police responded by using stun grenades and tear gas against the mobs. Vehicles were torched by the hooligans from the neo-Nazi Pravy Sektor. More than 60 police were hospitalized from barrages of rocks, stones and Molotov cocktails. 

*The core of Pravy sektor is made of the activists of radical groups*, including ‘Trizub’, ‘Patriot of Ukraine’, as well as UNA-UNSO and the ‘Svoboda’ (Freedom) ultra-right party, which won nearly 10 percent of votes at the last parliamentary election in Ukraine. They are ‘pro-EU’. 

*The far-right violent radicals told Radio Free Europe, a US Government media agency tied to the CIA and State Department,* *that they were preparing full bloody guerrilla war against the government.* Andrey Tarasenko, Pravy Sektor's coordinator warned, "If they attack and try to carry out a bloody crackdown, I think there will be a massacre. Guerrilla warfare will begin in Ukraine." 

*Tarasenko stated that their “demands” are to oust the current government and "build a nation state" in Ukraine.* What kind of nation state we must imagine. They also demand that Yanukovich step down, but, generously enough, add that they would give him and his family “24 hours to leave the country safely.” 

On their VKontakte (In Contact) social network website, the organization calls for donations of items such as slingshots, steel balls, gasoline, laser pointers, glass bottles, chains, and pyrotechnics. 

Their published manifesto is nothing short of bizarre: “All those who at this point would try to tame the revolutionary energy of the masses should be proclaimed traitors and punished in the most severe way. The time of peaceful singing and dancing at Maidan [Independence Square] is over. This is a waste of time. There can be no negotiations, no compromise with the ruling gang. We will carry high the fire of national revolution.”

Curious is the fact that in the beginning of the protests, Pravy Sektor members were calling themselves ‘the Maidan self-defense force’. They had been designated by the main opposition leaders – Vitaly Klitschko, Arseny Yatsenyuk and Oleg Tyagnibok - to provide security for peaceful protesters. Now they clearly have split from the peaceful protests. 

Even more bizarre is the fact that in recent days ambassadors of several EU-member states, as well as the US and Canada have gone to Maidan to meet Pravy Sektor activists and learn how ‘the headquarters of national resistance’ operates. 

*Instead of unequivocally condemning the rise of violent Ukrainian nationalism, which could turn Ukraine into another Yugoslavia or Libya, the West is only threatening President Yanukovich with sanctions, while turning a blind eye to the real Pravy Sektor danger*. 










*Boxer Klitschko favorite of West* 

The Tarasenko demands are virtually the same as ex-boxer-turned right-wing politician, Vitaly Klitschko, the pro-EU apparent favorite of Germany’s Merkel government. Klitschko has lived in Germany for the past several years. 

The nominal reason for the latest explosive protests in Ukraine was passage of a series of emergency laws to control the civil disorder by the Parliament on January 16 which, among other things, restrict the right to protest, constrain independent media, and inhibit the operation of NGOs. 

*Evidence suggests that key players in the Ukraine protest movement are being steered and orchestrated by Washington-funded NGO’s like the National Endowment for Democracy**], the German Marshall Fund in The United States (a Washington think-tank financed by a donation from the German Parliament), and certain key neo-conservative Bush-Cheney leftovers in senior positions at the State Department. *

Already on October 11, 2011, the German Marshall Fund hosted Vitaly Klitschko, then-WBC Heavyweight Boxing Champion just entering Ukraine’s political boxing ring, at a Washington meeting to discuss Ukraine’s European perspective. 

Again in 2012 during the October Ukraine elections The German Marshall Fund in the United States hosted a top-level group of UK, French and German journalists to visit Ukraine, where they also met Klitschko. The Marshall Fund journalists were told by the US Embassy officials in Kiev that, “Ukrainian oligarchs would like to see a strong opposition to the Party of Regions in the new parliament in order to temper the enrichment of President Yanukovich’s family.” 

That ‘strong opposition’ is today headed by three very different political parties. *One which won a shocking 10 percent in the last elections and sits in parliament is Svoboda, a neo-Nazi nationalist party led by Oleg Tyagnibok.* Tyagnibok backed the US-financed 2004 Orange Revolution. He is openly anti-Semitic and anti-Russian, once claiming that Ukraine was ruled by a “Moscow-Jewish mafia.” *The second-largest opposition party, jailed opposition figure, Yulia Tymoshenko’s ‘Fatherland’, led by Arseny Yatsenyuk, has signed an agreement to work with the neo-fascist Svoboda.* 

The opposition figure most attractive to the West is ex-boxer Klitschko, head of UDAR (strike), the smallest opposition party, who has spent the last years living in Germany. In order to have a chance at a Parliamentary majority in 2015, Klitschko will be forced to make a coalition with Svoboda and its policies, even though he is trying a delicate tightrope act of claiming to distance from Svoboda’s anti-Semitic ultra-nationalism. 

In an Op-Ed in the London Financial Times, Klitschko wrote, “the official halt in Ukraine’s European integration unmasks the true face” of the Yanukovich regime — “a cartel of commercial self-interests that has captured public office and believes that political longevity can be bought by selling Ukraine’s interests.” Ukrainians, he warned, would not allow Yanukovich “and his cronies to steal their future” and if their views were not taken into account, “more protests are yet to come.” 

*A central role in encouraging the Ukraine protesters is being played by the US State Department, and especially Victoria Nulland*.

RIOTER THROWS A MOLOTOV COCKTAIL AT POLICE









*State Department’s role* 

A review of the official statements from Nulland, who met personally with opposition leader Klitschko in early December, is instructive of the open interference of Washington in the internal affairs of Ukraine. Nulland - a Hillary Clinton appointee who now is assistant secretary of the Bureau of European and Eurasian Affairs in the State Department - did not respect a sovereign decision by Ukraine’s government in November 2013 not to accept the dismal terms offered by Brussels for a Ukrainian EU ‘Association’ status. 

*The EU ‘offer’ would have forced Ukraine to open its economy to ‘free market’ rules in return for little*. When Yanukovich told the EU of his government’s decision in November, Nulland’s spokesperson issued the following statement: “We continue to support the aspirations of the Ukrainian people to achieve a prosperous European democracy. European integration is the surest course to economic growth and strengthening Ukraine’s democracy.” *That was an undiplomatic intervention on the side of the protesters designed to embolden the opposition. It did indeed*. 

Then on December 5 in Kiev, after her meeting with Vitaly Klitschko, Nulland declared, “There should be no doubt about where the United States stands on this. We stand with the people of Ukraine who see their future in Europe…” 

She followed her speech with a high-profile bizarre media photo-op where she carried a single plastic bag of food to give to the opposition demonstrators. Nulland’s partisan pro-EU comments were followed by a brazen appearance from Republican war-hawk Senator John McCain a few days later, siding with the opposition in December. *McCain is chairman of the Board of National Endowment for Democracy’s International Republican Institute, which has been in the middle of all US Color Revolution destabilizations since 2000*. 

Most recently, on January 15, after attacking Russia for granting a vital $15 billion bond purchase to help stabilize Ukraine, *Nulland all but outlined the standard US government template for election tampering that has been done in countless ‘color revolutions’ since the NED’s 2000 coup against Yugoslavia’s Milosevic*. 

She told the US Senate, “the use of violence and acts of repression carried out by government security forces and their surrogates have compelled us to make clear publicly and privately to the government of Ukraine that we will consider a broad range of tools at our disposal if those in positions of authority in Ukraine employ or encourage violence against their own citizens.” 

Nulland then issued a direct order to President Yanukovich: “We call on him to make it credible through concrete actions to restore government accountability, rule of law and engagement with Europe and the IMF.” Then, referencing planned 2015 national Ukraine elections, she added, “US pre-election assistance to Ukraine likely will include programs to support citizen oversight of the campaign environment and the conduct of the elections, independent media coverage and informed civic awareness and participation.” And finally, “The State Department and USAID are reviewing how best to support Ukrainian civil society and media.” 

*USAID is widely cited as a cover for CIA operations in foreign countries*. 

Victoria Nulland herself is a former assistant to Vice President Dick Cheney, and married to neo-conservative guru, Robert Kagan. *She was under fire when caught recently lying to the American people when she was Hillary Clinton’s State Department spokesperson*. Nulland pushed her superiors then to completely delete numerous references of extremists linked to Al-Qaeda in Benghazi and eastern Libya after the assassination of the US Ambassador. She also persuaded more senior officials to delete information on at least five other attacks against foreign interests in Benghazi by unidentified assailants. 

*Washington is clearly out to destabilize the new Ukraine-Russia economic cooperation by hook or crook*. On January 22, after severe Pravy Sektor violence, the American Embassy in Kiev announced it was revoking the visas of several unnamed Ukraine Government officials responsible for actions taken against protesters in November and December. 

*Negotiations* 

The latest negotiations between the Yanukovich government and the three main opposition party leaders—Klitschko, Arseny Yatsenyuk and Oleg Tyagnibok—have led to the resignation of Yanukovich’s Prime Minister Nikolay Azarov and his cabinet, and changes in the emergency laws proposed 10 days earlier. Nine out of 12 anti-protest laws passed January 16 were repealed. 

At this point, whatever agenda Victoria Nulland’s State Department may have had in trying to woo Ukraine away from Moscow, the internal forces of instability, egged on by vocal support from the West, have made the outcome incalculable. That is certainly not in the true interest of the EU, having a critical Central European nation of 45 million ungovernable, *and a rising nationalist neo-Nazi Svoboda-led party calling the shots*. That would prove too much even for the legendary boxing talent of Klitschko. 

_The statements, views and opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of RT._


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

When is the far-right acceptable to the West? When it's in Ukraine

by NEIL CLARK

_*Neil Clark is a journalist, writer and broadcaster.* _

Published time: January 30, 2014 09:44 

The ‘progressive’ Western political elites and the establishment journalists who act as PR agents for them would like us to think that they are unequivocally opposed to neo-Nazism, homophobia, racism and far-right political extremism.

But how genuine is their opposition? *The current disturbances in Ukraine and the western response to them, suggests that it’s highly selective to say the least*. 

Let’s imagine for a moment that there were violent demonstrations led by ultranationalists and neo-Nazis in a Western European country, and that those demonstrators held up posters of figures who had collaborated with the Nazis during World War II. That they had shouted neo-Nazi slogans and their leaders had made anti-Jewish and homophobic statements. That these same protesters had used violence to try and topple the democratically elected government – and that they had seized government buildings. *We can expect the western elites and establishment journalists to fiercely denounce the protesters, who would definitely be labeled “rioters,” that they would call for “law and order” to swiftly be restored and for the leaders of the demonstrators to be arrested,* and for them to be prosecuted under hate speech legislation. 

Yet this is exactly what has been happening in Ukraine, and *far from condemning the far-right protesters, the Western elites have been enthusiastically supporting their cause*. 

Before Christmas, Senator John McCain, the US’s leading neocon politician, flew to Kiev and dined with opposition leaders, including Oleh Tyahnybok, leader of the extreme far-right Svoboda party. *Later, McCain stood alongside Tyahnybok at an anti-government rally.* In 1999 a report from Tel Aviv University, cited by Britain’s Channel 4 News, *called Svoboda “an extremist, right-wing, nationalist organization which emphasizes its identification with the ideology of German National Socialism.”* In 2004, Tyahynbok claimed that Ukraine was run by a “Muscovite-Jewish mafia.” Although the party has tried to clean up its image since then, the far-right extremism and ugly ultranationalist rhetoric remains – but that doesn’t seem to trouble too much the western elite figures cheering on street protests, in which Svoboda and other ultranationalist groups have played such a leading role.

*JOHN McCAIN MEETS WITH LEADER OF PRO-NAZI "SVOBODA" PARTY, OLEG TYAGNIBOK IN KIEV*









*The same hypocrisy is shown in relation to the issue of gay rights*. 

Western elite figures have criticized Russia over the 2013 law banning the promotion of homosexuality to minors, with French President Francois Hollande being just one of the leading western politicians to announce that he’ll be boycotting the forthcoming Winter Olympic Games in Sochi. Yet, whatever our views about it, *the law in Russia is very similar to one in force in Britain from 1988-2003, when, revealingly, there were no calls for a sporting boycott of the United Kingdom*. 

Listen to establishment figures in the West and hawkish newspaper columnists and you’d get the impression that Russia was the worst country in the world for gay rights. *You certainly wouldn’t think that there are almost 80 countries in the world where – unlike in Russia – homosexuality was still illegal, and that many of them were strong western allies*. *The same President Hollande who is boycotting Sochi last year made a two-day official visit to Qatar (a country where male homosexuality is illegal and the punishment is up to five years in jail)* to discuss strengthening economic ties with the outgoing Emir Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa al-Thani and his son Sheikh Tamim. The French president talked of the “mutual respect and understanding” between his country and Qatar. Qatar is due to host the 2022 football World Cup, but* Hollande, the “principled” politician who’s boycotting Sochi, had nothing to say about the country’s record on gay rights*. 

Instead he drooled: _“There’s the great subject of sport, in the sense I mentioned this morning of the only valid competition, namely on the global scale. For the time being, we’re preparing the European [Football] Championship, so it was agreed that we’d share our experience on this, so that Qatar can organize a very fine World Cup. It’s not simply about the sporting event, because we’re well aware that considerable infrastructure and hotel accommodation will be needed, and our cooperation on this can really be exemplary.” _

*Isn’t it strange how western leaders’ concern over gay rights seems to evaporate when they visit Gulf states and there‘s business to be done?* In Saudi Arabia, homosexuality can be punished by death, yet will western elites be boycotting the country in protest, let alone be criticizing Saudi laws? We shouldn’t hold our breath. 

Last year US journalist James Kirchik became a poster boy for western neocons and the fake left for attacking Russia’s new law live on RT, *but Al-Jazeera, the channel owned by the government of a country (Qatar) where male homosexuality is illegal, gets a free pass. *There are no calls for people interviewed on the channel to launch into an attack on Qatar for criminalizing male homosexuality or for people to boycott Al-Jazeera because of Qatar’s anti-gay laws. 

*The fact is that the western elite’s support for gay rights, like their “unequivocal” opposition to far-right, ultranationalist groups, like their “unequivocal” opposition to racism and neo-Nazism, is a sham*. It’s used tactically, to help further the elite’s economic and geostrategic interests. 

*The reality is that you can be as ultranationalist, as Neo-Nazi, as racist and as homophobic as you like – so long as you are opposing a government that the western elites want toppled*. The extremism of Ukrainian far-right groups is therefore swept under the carpet, because such groups want Ukraine to sever its links with Russia. Yes, they’re fascists, homophobes and racists, *but they’re “our kind” of fascists, homophobes and racists i.e. anti-Russian ones*. But in other European countries – e.g. Hungary – ultranationalist groups are condemned, because their interests are not in line with western elite interests. 

*The bottom line in all of this is money.* If there is “regime change” in Ukraine and the country is locked into what are euphemistically described as “Euro-Atlantic structures,” there will be big profits for the western elites – not only would the country become a dumping ground for western multinationals, but a Ukraine in NATO – the same elites’ ultimate dream – would mean more profits for western defense companies and arms manufacturers. 

“Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others,” the old joke goes. It’s a perfect way to describe the *extremely flexible “principles”* of the west’s “progressive” elite.


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## Odo (Jun 9, 2013)

ice_edge said:


> *Joining either EU or Russia is probably equally as bad for Ukraine. But they will choose EU I would believe. Also Lithuania wasn't a rich country to begin with and it had more to do with Globalism in general and not just EU that made the economy suffer....since let's face it the economy is indeed connected world over.
> 
> One really bad decision in Lithuania would be to get Euro currency. I dunno if it would make it worse but Greece sure as hell suffered from that.
> 
> ...


Both countries (I'm English btw) have an extremely favourable welfare system that basically ensures that even if the worst happens, you will be looked after. As a consequence, the area of the UK I live in is absolutely flooded with immigrants, mainly Polish and Lithuanian.

We are currently bracing for Romanians and Bulgarians also, but unless they wanted a reminder of what Soviet life was like, I'm not sure why they would come, cause this country is in a really bad spot right now, though not as bad as 2-3 years ago.

As for OP, I get the sense that the Customs Union is the guy to go, the WCW metaphor for the EU is spot on.


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## GiveMeAHellYeah (Jan 27, 2014)

I brought my plane ticket to Europe a couple of days ago. Plan on going a whole month of backpacking in July. I figured someone might have some experience doing the same and could help me out. How much spending money do you think I will need on average? That's with cheap hostels, cheap food, etc.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

GiveMeAHellYeah said:


> I brought my plane ticket to Europe a couple of days ago. Plan on going a whole month of backpacking in July. I figured someone might have some experience doing the same and could help me out. How much spending money do you think I will need on average? That's with cheap hostels, cheap food, etc.


What countries are you planning on visiting? A month isn't really a whole lot of time. You probably should target a specific area and then get back to us. It would appear that membership in our forum covers a wide spectrum of European countries.

In any case, narrowing down your area and maping out a specific plan is a must or you are going to be running around like a chicken without a head.

- Mike


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

The problem is that not just the Western media but also the general western people always view the "rebels" as the "good guys"

We live in a pretty FUCK DA POLICE society that views any overbearing authority as being "fascist" and "Nazi" and like the "underdog"

You could show protesters torturing a cop to death and many people would side with the protesters

Personally I favor stability over buildings burning with the FIRES OF FREEDOM but that's just me


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## GiveMeAHellYeah (Jan 27, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> What countries are you planning on visiting? A month isn't really a whole lot of time. You probably should target a specific area and then get back to us. It would appear that membership in our forum covers a wide spectrum of European countries.
> 
> In any case, narrowing down your area and maping out a specific plan is a must or you are going to be running around like a chicken without a head.
> 
> - Mike


From Miami to Spain. Will be traveling in this order

1)Spain(Madrid & Barcelona)
2)France(Paris)
3)Netherlands(Amsterdam)
4)Germany(Berlin & Munich)
5)Switzerland(Bern & Interlaken)
6)Italy(Rome, Milan, Venice, Florence)

I believe there is another country we're going to, just undecided. I know a month isn't a long time, but I'm a college student. I had to work a shitload of hours to make this happen on my own without the help of my parents.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

GiveMeAHellYeah said:


> From Miami to Spain. Will be traveling in this order
> 
> 1)Spain(Madrid & Barcelona)
> 2)France(Paris)
> ...


It sounds like a great trip that will give you a tremendous overview of those countries. With your time constraints it is probably the best way to do the trip, although it sounds like it will be a whirlwind. 

My technique was a bit different. I preferred to get to one place and then study it. For example, when I was visiting Italy I based myself in Rome and would focus on that city with day trips by train to Firenze, Venezia, and Milano.

Make sure that you check out the Prado Museum in Madrid. They have a collection of paintings by Heronymous Bosch, the somewhat "eccentric" Dutch painter. That man's mind was definitely in a different dimension!:lol

Paris is a great city. You could spend a month walking the town and not scratch the surface. If you are into the "odd" and "unusual" check this out. I was wandering around one day and found this small Catholic church on a narrow side street where they have the body of a nun that was buried for decades. When she was dug up her nun's habit was decomposed, but the body looked like it had died yesterday! I believe it's the body of Roman Catholic St. Bernadette, but you can ask the locals. They'll tell you how to find the church.

Unfortunately, Berlin isn't the adventure it used to be. When I was there in the mid 1980s going over to visit from West Berlin was like being in a Tom Clancy novel. You booked a tour and got on a bus with a bunch of other foreigners. 

As the bus approached the checkpoint the first thing you saw were cool signs in English, Russian, and French - *YOU ARE LEAVING THE AMERICAN SECTOR / ВЫ ВЫЕЗЖАЕТЕ ИЗ АМЕРИКАНСКОГО СЕКТОРА *(I don't know how to write it in French). When you got to the checkpoint the bus stopped and was boarded by East German soldiers whose senior officer collected all the passports of everyone on the bus.  After intimidating the people on the bus with their presence for about 15 minutes they waved you on and you took the tour for 3 or 4 hours. You got your passport back at the checkpoint when leaving the Eastern Sector.

I would get a kick out of this because the Americans on the bus would literally shit themselves and looked like they wanted to go back to their hotel rooms in the Western Sector. Back in the day you certainly got your money's worth! :| 

I don't know what it looks like now, but East Berlin was most definitely the more interesting part of the city. The west looked like a typical "downtown" of a big American city complete with hookers, porno shops, muggers, drugs, rowdy U.S. military personnel, etc. The East was cleaner, the museums and historic landmarks were preseved and well kept. 

BTW, I'm just relating my *first impressions *about Berlin when I was there and do *NOT* want to get into a debate. 

Anyway, I just realized that this is :topic:. We are discussing Western Europe, but the thread is titled "*EASTERN EUROPEAN DISCUSSION THREAD.*" Let's get back on topic!

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_John Kerry calls on EU and NATO to support rioters in Ukraine_

Ukrainian Protests Split World Leaders at Security Conference

MOSCOW, February 1 (RIA Novosti) – The ongoing protests in Ukraine divided world leaders attending the 50th annual Munich Security Conference on Saturday.

*US Secretary of State John Kerry *said that demonstrators in the country “are fighting for the right to associate with partners who will help them realize their aspirations.”

“Nowhere is the fight for a democratic, European future more important today than in Ukraine.”

*NATO and EU officials echoed those comments in words of support for the demonstrators.
*
Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, however, urged world leaders to work with the country's leaders to defuse the situation.

European politicians should condemn the seizure of government buildings by demonstrators in Ukraine, Russia’s foreign minister said Saturday.

“*Why are there no voices condemning those who seize government buildings, attack the police and adopt racist and anti-Semitic slogans?* Why do European leaders actually encourage such actions, when they would quickly move to punish them at home?” Sergei Lavrov said at the annual Munich Security Conference.

“*What would be the reaction from the European Union, if members of the Russian government began to openly express support, including personal visits, to rioters in London, Paris or Hamburg?” *he added.









_Sergei Lavrov blasts U.S./E.U. support for Ukrainian rioters at Munich Security Conference_


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## ice_edge (Aug 4, 2011)

Canelo said:


> Both countries (I'm English btw) have an extremely favorable welfare system that basically ensures that even if the worst happens, you will be looked after. As a consequence, the area of the UK I live in is absolutely flooded with immigrants, mainly Polish and Lithuanian.
> 
> We are currently bracing for Romanians and Bulgarians also, but unless they wanted a reminder of what Soviet life was like, I'm not sure why they would come, cause this country is in a really bad spot right now, though not as bad as 2-3 years ago.
> 
> As for OP, I get the sense that the Customs Union is the guy to go, the WCW metaphor for the EU is spot on.


*Which both countries? England and Sweden or what? Ok let me say this before we continue. I was born and raised in Lithuania so hence why I'm not just talking out of thin air when I talk about it. Also now I live in Sweden since I was one of those people who migrated once upon a time also. 

Another thing is my mom is one of those Lithuanian immigrants which you are talking about. She lives in UK and works there. So does my sister. I go to UK once a year for a visit. Although I know what you mean. I hear the stories of Lithuanians and polish(not only hear but seen it too). 

Why people come to UK (or Sweden for that matter) is a chance at better life since countries they use to live in are as poor as they come. Wages are so low I can't even imagine how hard it is to make a decent living out there. You need at least a few jobs to be able to pay your bills.

Same thing is happening all over Eastern Europe hence why people are trying to find a better country to settle in and have a better life and opportunities. These things are nothing new in history. Back in the day people in Sweden(about 1/3rd) migrated to US for search of a better life. And now that Sweden is in very good economical shape people are migrating here.

Certain countries will always attract people around the world to migrate to it. I mean if your family(and everyone you knew) where poor and miserable of course you would want to migrate to a country which provides you with more opportunities than your current one. *


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

ice_edge said:


> *
> Why people come to UK (or Sweden for that matter) is a chance at better life since countries they use to live in are as poor as they come. Wages are so low I can't even imagine how hard it is to make a decent living out there. You need at least a few jobs to be able to pay your bills.
> 
> Same thing is happening all over Eastern Europe hence why people are trying to find a better country to settle in and have a better life and opportunities.
> ...


I have no argument with what you have said. Migration to improve one's economic situation is nothing new.

However, please excuse my ignorance on this. But, isn't the European Union supposed to give all its member countries a chance to prosper? Why are the people in most of the Eastern European and Baltic countries so poor and living so badly that they feel forced to migrate to another EU country where economic conditions are better?? 

To pick up lock, stock, and parrot cage and relocate to a foreign country is a big decision and a major life change. This is not something that most people want to do unless their back is absolutely to the wall.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that EU membership benefits mostly the upper classes of a number of Western European nations who control the capital and own the businesses there. The influx of unemployed and under employed workers from Eastern Europe and the Baltics create a large pool of labor that inevitably brings down wages for the working people in these EU nations that are "better off."

I may be over simplifying things, but the EU does not look to me like it benefits anyone except the rich in the Western European countries and, perhaps, a handful of "entrepreneurs" in the East. 

To me an economic union that would give people a chance to make a decent living in their home country, keep their own currency, enjoy the culture that they grew up with, and speak their native language would be preferable to what is going on at the present time in the EU.

If I'm wrong, then I apologize. I don't live under the EU system so I can't speak for those of you who do. I'm just calling it the way I see it from where I sit.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

> To me an economic union that would give people a chance to make a decent living in their home country, keep their own currency, enjoy the culture that they grew up with, and speak their native language would be preferable to what is going on at the present time in the EU.
> 
> If I'm wrong, then I apologize. I don't live under the EU system so I can't speak for those of you who do. I'm just calling it the way I see it from where I sit.
> 
> - Mike


This is what the European Union was supposed to be.



Batko10 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that EU membership benefits mostly the upper classes of a number of Western European nations who control the capital and own the businesses there. The influx of unemployed and under employed workers from Eastern Europe and the Baltics create a large pool of labor that inevitably brings down wages for the working people in these EU nations that are "better off."
> 
> I may be over simplifying things, but the EU does not look to me like it benefits anyone except the rich in the Western European countries and, perhaps, a handful of "entrepreneurs" in the East.



And this is how it turned out.

Exactly, it only benefits the rich and the poor countries have to give more than they get.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Ukrainian Opposition Activist Flees to UK to Avoid Arrest
_*Western hypocrites give refuge to Ukrainian terrorist leader*_








[/URL][/IMG]

MOSCOW, February 3 (RIA Novosti) – A Ukrainian opposition leader wanted for inciting mass anti-government protests said Monday that he had fled to the United Kingdom over fears that he could be arrested.

Oleksandr Danylyuk, who leads the Spilna Sprava (Common Cause) group, left Ukraine after police issued a warrant for his arrest in late January. He wrote on Facebook that he had crossed the border “on foot” and finally reached London on Monday. His wife and son flew to London last week.

“[Yulia] Tymoshenko proved that being in jail is noble, but non-effective. We are not planning to surrender ourselves to jail,” Danylyuk wrote on Facebook.

The activist faces up to 15 years behind bars for allegedly organizing riots in Ukraine that caused the death of people or serious harm to them, the Interior Ministry said.

The opposition group angered Ukrainian authorities by occupying three key government buildings in Kiev last week. Danylyuk, who claimed he was authorized to set up an interim government in Ukraine, said he would continue coordinating the group from abroad.

He told the Kyiv Post newspaper on Monday that the revolution in Ukraine was entering a decisive phase.


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## Lady Eastwood (Jul 10, 2006)

I am part Ukrainian, so, I am paying attention to the shit going on over there, it's pretty fucking sad. I hope they get their shit together.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)




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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Away from Ukraine for a bit, Sochi Olympics have officially started.

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/early-start-thursday-sochi-olympics-events-22386127


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## just1988 (Jun 15, 2009)

I went to Poland in '02 and really hated it because i was a teenager giving up his summer holidays. In hindsight, i didn't make the most of it and kinda wish i could relive it


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Watching the opening ceremony of Sochi Winter Olympics and I've got to say that it's pretty impressive. Especially the mascots.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

RybackGuy said:


> Im from Latvia,and we hate russians.
> most of latvians hates euro. Including me.



We already know that. So does the 30% of your population that is ethnic Russian and against whom you blatantly discriminate.

On the flip side, we also know that you love Nazism and have a strong neo-Nazi culture at the present time.

- Mike


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## Arcturus (Jan 23, 2014)

..Russia, Ukraine, Poland, Czec Republic, Lithuania etc etc

It doesn't matter, all these countries have amazingly beautiful women.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> We already know that. So does the 30% of your population that is ethnic Russian and against whom you blatantly discriminate.
> 
> On the flip side, we also know that you love Nazism and have a strong neo-Nazi culture at the present time.
> 
> - Mike


And that comes from RT. Russia Today. So take it with a grain of salt. A big grain.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlin...il-just-four-rings-light-up-in-iconic-symbol/

I saw this live and thought that the ceremony is screwed, but apart from this, it was pretty much flawless.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> And that comes from RT. Russia Today. So take it with a grain of salt. A big grain.


Why would you take it with a "grain of salt" just because it was reported by RT??? Do you expect Latvia's NATO allies in Washington to report on the neo-Nazi movement and government support it receives???

It is what it is. RT didn't make it up. 

- Mike


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## A$AP (Jul 24, 2012)

Cites Russia Today as a source when counterpointing Russian criticism. :ti


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

A$AP said:


> Cites Russia Today as a source when counterpointing Russian criticism. :ti


If the "free" press and "free" media in the West won't report on the rise of neo-Nazis in Latvia why shouldn't I cite a RT report??? They just reported on something the U.S. and E.U. turn a blind eye to, because Latvia is a member of NATO. Obviously, Washington is not going to criticize a fellow NATO member.

If you can find any lies in the RT video that's one thing. Dismissing it out of hand because it was a RT report doesn't make much sense. 

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> If the "free" press and "free" media in the West won't report on the rise of neo-Nazis in Latvia why shouldn't I cite a RT report??? They just reported on something the U.S. and E.U. turn a blind eye to, because Latvia is a member of NATO. Obviously, Washington is not going to criticize a fellow NATO member.
> 
> If you can find any lies in the RT video that's one thing. Dismissing it out of hand because it was a RT report doesn't make much sense.
> 
> - Mike


You should know better than this. ALL media is biased to some degree. You shouldn't form an opinion from just one source.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> You should know better than this. ALL media is biased to some degree. You shouldn't form an opinion from just one source.


Of course, I looked at various sources. Unfortunately, in the West it is difficult to find information that has even some unbiased reporting when it comes to Russia. When I looked for videos on the Nazi movement in the Baltics I went to Western sources first knowing that I would be subject to snide remarks by posters such as "A$AP" if the data that I posted was from a Russian source.

I found some articles, but the only video clip that I could find on the Latvian Nazis was on RT. What is on the RT video clip is a record of Nazi meetings glorifying the Waffen SS murderers. If the *NY Times *was there their video would have shown the same thing. 

Three things have been reinforced in my mind by the recent posts. Firstly, Russophobia, *NOT* communism, is the historical driving force of the western media who then passes it on to the general public by dissemination of bigoted, anti-Russian information. Looking at history, except for brief interludes, *the West has had a hate and fear of Russia whether it was during the Tsarist, Soviet, or post-Soviet periods.
*
Secondly, the present day Western media works in tandem to push the U.S./NATO agenda of a hegemony run from Washington. What everyone seems to forget is that *the Western "free" media, i.e. television, radio, newspapers, and magazines are owned and controlled by the wealthy. * These people will slant, omit, and outright lie if they feel it will benefit their agenda, i.e. the common agenda of the rich whose overriding concern is to protect and grow their wealth.

Thirdly, if I stated, "I hate Latvians" (which I don't) list members would have been on me like white on rice. *However, when "RybackGuy" posted "We hate Russians..." there was not one peep out of anyone except me. * However, there was an immediate negative reaction to my post regarding Nazism in Latvia. 

Tomas, maybe, people in the West should take your advice and "not form an opinion based on one source." 

- Mike


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## ice_edge (Aug 4, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> I have no argument with what you have said. Migration to improve one's economic situation is nothing new.
> 
> However, please excuse my ignorance on this. But, isn't the European Union supposed to give all its member countries a chance to prosper? Why are the people in most of the Eastern European and Baltic countries so poor and living so badly that they feel forced to migrate to another EU country where economic conditions are better??
> 
> ...


*Well to be frank here the ideals are one thing and reality of the matter is whole another matter. Only good thing that has happened(real thing) is that now people can move inside of EU freely and people are taking advantage of that and moving away to countries where they can make a decent living.

Also as I said this has a lot to do with things like global economy which have been in shambles since 08. Lithuania was on it's way up at one point but everything was halted when the crash occurred. Besides nowadays there is this life view....I call it the Lithuanian dream(hehe) to either move to another country or better yet work in another country, make a decent amount of money, come back home and build a house for you and your family. It's a very common thing that I have noticed. 

Also another thing that occurs when people move out is see all the bad things we have in Lithuania. Things like corruption and complete poverty. All the young lads and ladies move out since they see there are no opportunities in those countries....but yeah it sounds like a broken record here. 
*


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

You might want to calm down on calling people Nazis 

Some people respond rather poorly to it


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

stevefox1200 said:


> You might want to calm down on calling people Nazis
> 
> Some people respond rather poorly to it


The only one whom I called a Nazi on this thread was "napalmdestruction" after he blatantly aired his opinion that Eastern Europeans were inferior to Western Europeans. The same thinking by Hitler led to 6 million Jews being exterminated and 25 million Russians, Ukrainians, and Byelorussians perishing (not to mention tens of millions of other people).

I respond poorly to the above and also to people who openly state, "We hate Russians." Apparently, that's OK with you, but calling a spade a spade, i.e. calling a Nazi a Nazi, isn't.

- Mike


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## ice_edge (Aug 4, 2011)

*Batko you should know this. It's not only Nazi's that people are concerned about. When people say they don't like Russians that means they have a knowledge of a guy named Joseph Stalin and his reign of terror. I myself know all about it since my grandparents have told me real life stories about the horrors of the countries they took during and after WW2. It also means that they where having their own slave labor camps which they sent people to which Soviet government thought just had too much wealth. A lot of Lithuanians, Latvians and most likely Estonians where sent to Siberia to work their selves to death back in the day. My relatives have survived that horror and many have come back home...and trust me the love for the Russians where gone ever since. 

It's stuff they no longer want to write in history books since Russia was part of the alliance who brought Hitler to his knees. But that's the truth. Also Stalin's regime killed far more people than Hitler did(not that Hitler was by any stretch a good guy). And you also have this guy called Mao.....*


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

There is still A LOT of dislike for Russia in many of the former soviet states

The Soviet government waged a near genocidal campaign on groups like the Polish 

With Russia taking a very nationalistic "us or them" style of politics and doing a lot of historical glorification its sends a lot of people running in the opposite direction


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

stevefox1200 said:


> There is still A LOT of dislike for Russia in many of the former soviet states
> 
> The Soviet government waged a near genocidal campaign on groups like the Polish
> 
> With Russia taking a very nationalistic "us or them" style of politics and doing a lot of historical glorification its sends a lot of people running in the opposite direction


What "genocidal" campaign was waged against the Polish? If you know your history the Poles were an expansionist aggressor nation for centuries and waged war against Russia and Ukraine. In fact, the Polish persecutions of the people in Western Ukraine played a great role in turning Western Ukrainians into the ultra-nationalist, haters they are today.

By the turn of the 20th century Poland's days of invasion and expansion in the East were just a dim memory and Poland was a part of the Russian Empire. Later, the poor, persecuted Poles became the perfect poster children for the West's anti-Russian propaganda.

Regarding an "us or them style of politics," the U.S. and NATO are the perfect examples of that style. "Join us or we will bomb and invade you if we can't instigate a regime change" is their motto.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

ice_edge said:


> *Batko you should know this. It's not only Nazi's that people are concerned about. When people say they don't like Russians that means they have a knowledge of a guy named Joseph Stalin and his reign of terror. I myself know all about it since my grandparents have told me real life stories about the horrors of the countries they took during and after WW2. It also means that they where having their own slave labor camps which they sent people to which Soviet government thought just had too much wealth. A lot of Lithuanians, Latvians and most likely Estonians where sent to Siberia to work their selves to death back in the day. My relatives have survived that horror and many have come back home...and trust me the love for the Russians where gone ever since.
> 
> It's stuff they no longer want to write in history books since Russia was part of the alliance who brought Hitler to his knees. But that's the truth. Also Stalin's regime killed far more people than Hitler did(not that Hitler was by any stretch a good guy). And you also have this guy called Mao.....*


I won't bother getting into an argument regarding the absurd statement that Stalin "killed far more people than Hitler." The W.R. Hearst/Joseph Goebbels propaganda of the 1930s is so ingrained in the western mind that we will just go in circles with that one.

What I will say is that Joseph Vissarionovich Dzhugasvili, AKA Joseph Stalin was *NOT* Russian. He was a *Georgian*. While we're on the subject, *Nikita Khrushchev *and *Leonid Brezhnev *were also *NOT* Russian. They were both *Ukrainian*. And by the way, Mao was *NOT* Russian. He was *Chinese*. 

If we take it a bit further, at the time of the Great October Socialist Revolution in *1917* *Jews* comprised about *60%* of the membership of the Communist Party (Bolsheviks). In fact, in *1920 *the *Central Committee of the Communist Party (Bolsheviks)* of the Russian Soviet Federated Socialist Republic looked like this:

Bronstein (Trotsky) Jew 
Apfelbaum (Zinovief) Jew 
Lourie (Larine) Jew 
Ouritski Jew 
Volodarski Jew 
Rosenfeldt (Kamanef) Jew 
Smidovitch Jew 
Sverdlof (Yankel) Jew 
Nakhamkes (Steklof) Jew 
Ulyanov (Lenin) Russian 
Krylenko Ukrainian 
Lounatcharski Ukrainian 

Another interesting, but little known fact in the West, is that the founder of the *NKVD (KGB*), *"Iron" Felix Dzerzhinski*, was *NOT* Russian. He was *Polish*.

Perhaps, those who hate Russians so much might want to contemplate the above and reconsider some of their hate.

- Mike


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## ice_edge (Aug 4, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> I won't bother getting into an argument regarding the absurd statement that Stalin "killed far more people than Hitler." The W.R. Hearst/Joseph Goebbels propaganda of the 1930s is so ingrained in the western mind that we will just go in circles with that one.
> 
> What I will say is that Joseph Vissarionovich Dzhugasvili, AKA Joseph Stalin was *NOT* Russian. He was a *Georgian*. While we're on the subject, *Nikita Khrushchev *and *Leonid Brezhnev *were also *NOT* Russian. They were both *Ukrainian*. And by the way, Mao was *NOT* Russian. He was *Chinese*.
> 
> ...


*Sure we could probably argue who killed how many but that would be besides the point. Also what you said still doesn't undermine the point of Stalin's reign of terror and labor camps which soviets where the first ones to use(this means before Hitler).

Also I never said that Mao was Russian. I was referring to another big time dictator who killed millions during the cultural revolution in China in 20th century. 

Also what about jews and the comity. What is your point with that? Also I wasn't talking about hate to the people but rather hate to soviet regime which in beginning when Russian government took over the Baltic states it was absolutely horrible for middle class folks. That is not a lie. People where sent to Siberia to work themselves to death. Or what now? Are we going to shift the blame for that on the Jews? *


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

ice_edge said:


> *Sure we could probably argue who killed how many but that would be besides the point. Also what you said still doesn't undermine the point of Stalin's reign of terror and labor camps which soviets where the first ones to use(this means before Hitler).
> 
> Also I never said that Mao was Russian. I was referring to another big time dictator who killed millions during the cultural revolution in China in 20th century.
> 
> Also what about jews and the comity. What is your point with that? Also I wasn't talking about hate to the people but rather hate to soviet regime which in beginning when Russian government took over the Baltic states it was absolutely horrible for middle class folks. That is not a lie. People where sent to Siberia to work themselves to death. Or what now? Are we going to shift the blame for that on the Jews? *


The Soviet labor camps were *NOT* "death camps." *The Nazi concentration camps were specifically designated for the killing of ethnic groups that the Reich believed had no right to live.* The Soviet labor camps were penal institutions which housed mostly criminals convicted of heinous crimes such as murder, rape, robbery, etc. They also housed political prisoners. However, at no time did the population of political prisoners reach over 20% of the general labor camp population. While conditions were harsh and many prisoners died while serving their sentences, the majority lived and were released.

You said, "You also have this guy called Mao..." You didn't say he was Russian, but why mention him at all???

I'm *NOT* blaming the Jews or any other ethnic group for anything. I was just pointing out that it wasn't just Russians who were responsible for policy in the USSR. The leaders who led the Soviet Union for over *50* years of its *74* year existence were *GEORGIAN* and *UKRAINIAN* - *NOT* Russian. The founder and head of the NKVD (KGB) was *POLISH* - *NOT* Russian. And, the upper echelons of the Communist Party of the RSFSR (Bolsheviks) were comprised mostly of *JEWS* - *NOT* Russians. I have nothing against any of the ethnic groups mentioned. I am just stating facts.

"Also I wasn't talking about hate to the people but rather hate to soviet regime which in beginning when Russian government took over the Baltic states..." This statement by you is a perfect example of the two faced nature of the West. You state that it is the Soviet regime that you hate, not the Russian people. However, in the same breath you don't call it the Soviet government, but the *RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT*. One doesn't have to be a psychiatrist to notice the bigotry and Russophobia bubbling through the mask of anti-communism.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> The Soviet labor camps were *NOT* "death camps." *The Nazi concentration camps were specifically designated for the killing of ethnic groups that the Reich believed had no right to live.* The Soviet labor camps were penal institutions which housed mostly criminals convicted of heinous crimes such as murder, rape, robbery, etc. They also housed political prisoners. However, at no time did the population of political prisoners reach over 20% of the general labor camp population. While conditions were harsh and many prisoners died while serving their sentences, the majority lived and were released.


This is completely wrong. Soviet camps were indeed "death camps". he difference is, that Nazi camps killed their prisoners and Soviet camps just made them work until their long and torturous death. As ice_edge said, "work themselves to death". And while some of them actually were criminals, most of them were just random people. During the first occupation in 1940-1941 around 35 000 Lithuanians were sent to the camps in Siberia. around 5 000 of them were children under 16 years of age. Saying that they were convicted criminals is wrong.



Batko10 said:


> I'm *NOT* blaming the Jews or any other ethnic group for anything. I was just pointing out that it wasn't just Russians who were responsible for policy in the USSR. The leaders who led the Soviet Union for over *50* years of its *74* year existence were *GEORGIAN* and *UKRAINIAN* - *NOT* Russian. The founder and head of the NKVD (KGB) was *POLISH* - *NOT* Russian. And, the upper echelons of the Communist Party of the RSFSR (Bolsheviks) were comprised mostly of *JEWS* - *NOT* Russians. I have nothing against any of the ethnic groups mentioned. I am just stating facts.


You said before that Western people hate Russians, not communists. Though while the people you mentioned, whom the West hates, were not Russians, they were all communists. Therefore, Western people hate communists, not Russians.



Batko10 said:


> "Also I wasn't talking about hate to the people but rather hate to soviet regime which in beginning when Russian government took over the Baltic states..." This statement by you is a perfect example of the two faced nature of the West. You state that it is the Soviet regime that you hate, not the Russian people. However, in the same breath you don't call it the Soviet government, but the *RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT*. One doesn't have to be a psychiatrist to notice the bigotry and Russophobia bubbling through the mask of anti-communism.


Come on. Everybody knows that Russians are synonymous with Soviets. People often call Soviets - Russians. And Russophobia is a myth created in the West. Former Soviet republics hate Russians not just because they're Russian, but because they occupied our countries and made us live under their regime.


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## ice_edge (Aug 4, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> The Soviet labor camps were *NOT* "death camps." *The Nazi concentration camps were specifically designated for the killing of ethnic groups that the Reich believed had no right to live.* The Soviet labor camps were penal institutions which housed mostly criminals convicted of heinous crimes such as murder, rape, robbery, etc. They also housed political prisoners. However, at no time did the population of political prisoners reach over 20% of the general labor camp population. While conditions were harsh and many prisoners died while serving their sentences, the majority lived and were released.
> 
> You said, "You also have this guy called Mao..." You didn't say he was Russian, but why mention him at all???
> 
> ...


*Yeah I know all about Nazi beliefs. No need to educate me on that. Let me throw you something else out there if you really want to nitpick things. Hitler actually wasn't German but Austrian(probably something you already knew about) but that doesn't mean that he wasn't running Germany and wasn't responsible taking countless people lives with his beliefs now does it? Also another interesting thing is that not only did he go after blacks, the Jews, disabled, communists but also freemasons. Now that is something you don't hear everyday do you? So could we say that it's austrians that are responsible for the genocide that took place during that time period? 

See small facts like that can be thrown all day without any conclusions of any kind. I don't think you got my point or the big picture which me and Thunder are trying to explain to you. I'm not saying I'm pro nazi and anti communist what I'm saying is that I'm anti both. I'm against Hitler but also against Stalin and there is nothing 2 faced about it so please stop making things up. If you want to tell me that I'm a liar and making things up around here you shouldn't be talking to me but all the people who hardly survived in communist slave labor camps. All the Lithuanians and the Latvian and not to mention all the soviet families who lost their lives to the corrupt regime. How many well educated people lost their lives because Stalin was afraid of educated people and saw them as a threat to his regime? Now is that just lies and propaganda too? Or you just want it to be? 

The thing is in history there are something called patterns which always repeat themselves. Certain ideals are taken and used in order to control the people. These 3 which I mentioned are just recent examples of governments taking their liberties to treat people below them as worse than dirt. It's certainly nothing new. Would it be Nazism, Communism or whatever ideals are trendy at the time. It's all about the end goals and what happens when extreme ideals are the ones which are dominant. It's all just a big power game for people above.*


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

ice_edge said:


> *Yeah I know all about Nazi beliefs. No need to educate me on that. Let me throw you something else out there if you really want to nitpick things. Hitler actually wasn't German but Austrian(probably something you already knew about) but that doesn't mean that he wasn't running Germany and wasn't responsible taking countless people lives with his beliefs now does it? Also another interesting thing is that not only did he go after blacks, the Jews, disabled, communists but also freemasons. Now that is something you don't hear everyday do you? So could we say that it's austrians that are responsible for the genocide that took place during that time period?
> 
> See small facts like that can be thrown all day without any conclusions of any kind. I don't think you got my point or the big picture which me and Thunder are trying to explain to you. I'm not saying I'm pro nazi and anti communist what I'm saying is that I'm anti both. I'm against Hitler but also against Stalin and there is nothing 2 faced about it so please stop making things up. If you want to tell me that I'm a liar and making things up around here you shouldn't be talking to me but all the people who hardly survived in communist slave labor camps. All the Lithuanians and the Latvian and not to mention all the soviet families who lost their lives to the corrupt regime. How many well educated people lost their lives because Stalin was afraid of educated people and saw them as a threat to his regime? Now is that just lies and propaganda too? Or you just want it to be?
> 
> The thing is in history there are something called patterns which always repeat themselves. Certain ideals are taken and used in order to control the people. These 3 which I mentioned are just recent examples of governments taking their liberties to treat people below them as worse than dirt. It's certainly nothing new. Would it be Nazism, Communism or whatever ideals are trendy at the time. It's all about the end goals and what happens when extreme ideals are the ones which are dominant. It's all just a big power game for people above.*


Before this discussion expanded into its present form, my main (and only) point was that Americans and Europeans are Russophobes. Communism was an excuse to expand on that Russophobia. By identifying the fact that there were multiple ethnic groups involved in leading and making policy in the USSR I was trying to demonstrate that Russians, per say, are not necessarily the main villains here. 

Anyway, I'm howling at the moon here. We probably should move on to another topic like the Winter Olympics.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Before this discussion expanded into its present form, my main (and only) point was that Americans and Europeans are Russophobes. Communism was an excuse to expand on that Russophobia. By identifying the fact that there were multiple ethnic groups involved in leading and making policy in the USSR I was trying to demonstrate that Russians, per say, are not necessarily the main villains here.
> 
> Anyway, I'm howling at the moon here. We probably should move on to another topic like the Winter Olympics.
> 
> - Mike


I tried to move on to Sochi, but there are still points unproven. You're kinda contradicting yourself. You say that it's Russophobia, but people actually hate communists, not Russins. Russophobia is a myth.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Batko10 said:


> What "genocidal" campaign was waged against the Polish? If you know your history the Poles were an expansionist aggressor nation for centuries and waged war against Russia and Ukraine. In fact, the Polish persecutions of the people in Western Ukraine played a great role in turning Western Ukrainians into the ultra-nationalist, haters they are today.
> 
> By the turn of the 20th century Poland's days of invasion and expansion in the East were just a dim memory and Poland was a part of the Russian Empire. Later, the poor, persecuted Poles became the perfect poster children for the West's anti-Russian propaganda.
> 
> ...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Poland

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_repressions_of_Polish_citizens_(1939-1946)

Poland had a partisan history with the Polish rising up against occupation

Trouble was that the Soviets decided to crack down before they actually started resisted


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## Spanish Lariato (Jul 26, 2011)

Eastern Europe's problems origin from the infiltration of a revisionist ideology in most of the socialist states. It was the decease of Stalin what really marked the difference. Yeah, sure it was some countries as Albania or even China where the Proletariat and Peasentry had a hold on government issues but once again after the main leaders of the revolutions were gone the marxist-leninist way was abandoned and the power and wealthy were precipated in a gradual process in the new Party actors and when the time came the people couldn't do anything to avoid it. The mechanisms to prevent that to happen (as described by Lenin in The State and Revolution)were simply not applied.
And then when the socialist states were destroyed (minus DPRK and Cuba) the brutal Capitalism was infiltrated in those countries causing poverty, inequity and exploitation. 
I am from Spain and from our experience I can only say that E.U. will be the ruin of Ukraine if that happens. Industry and agriculture were dismantled and every year our sovereignty goes one step further to dissapear. 
Ukraine is a country that is completely divided because one part of it is mostly a Russian region. Also the protesters are in his majority nazi and alienated people that thinks that in Europe we are all rich and happy. They should stick to deals with Rssia and other countries of the eastern region. There is no point in enter as another puppet state for Germany.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

stevefox1200 said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Poland
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_repressions_of_Polish_citizens_(1939-1946)
> 
> ...


No, the trouble is that the two links that you have posted are written from a Cold War, anti-Soviet point of view that has been taught in the West for decades.

In fact, the Soviet Union did *NOT* invade Poland in 1939. It liberated Western Byelorussia that was torn away from eastern Byelorussia and given to Poland by the 1918 Treaty of Brest-Litovsk that took the nascent RSFSR out of WW I.

*From 1918 to 1939 the people of western Byelorussia were forced to live under the occupation of Poland and were the targets of systematic discrimination in their own country.* The Byelorussian and Russian languages were forbidden, Byelorussian schools were shut down, the best jobs went to the ethnic Polish minority who lived in the region, the Russian Orthodox majority was forced to work on their holidays while Roman Catholic holidays of the Polish minority were made national holidays, etc. 

*The Byelorussian people hated the Polish occupiers*. When the Red Army rolled into Grodno, Brest, and other Byelorussian cities and towns the people were in the streets waving red flags and cheering on the tanks while the Polish occupiers ran for the hills.

In fact, Germany invaded *POLAND* a couple of weeks earlier. The Soviet Union went in to get back the territory that was stolen from it in 1918.

You can post all the western trash that you like and you will probably fool most of the list members. However, I personally have relatives in Grodno (western Byelorussia) and Minsk (eastern Byelorussia) and have been there and heard accounts of the Polish occupation from the people who lived through it. *I believe my people, not U.S. propaganda articles gleaned from Wikipedia.
*
By the way, there was *no* genocide. People like yourself love to throw that word out whenever it is convenient to bolster your argument.

- Mike

Even in post-Soviet times Belarus celebrates the liberation from Polish occupation. Below is a postage stamp issued in 1999 commemorating the *60TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE REUNIFICATION OF THE BYELORUSSIAN LANDS*. 







[/URL][/IMG]


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> I tried to move on to Sochi, but there are still points unproven. You're kinda contradicting yourself. You say that it's Russophobia, but people actually hate communists, not Russins. Russophobia is a myth.


Tomas, I'm not contradicting myself. I maintain that the hate for communism is a way of disguising hate for Russians. "*RybackGuy*" made my point quite succinctly when he blurted out, "*WE HATE RUSSIANS*."

He didn't say that Latvians hate communists. He said, "we hate *RUSSIANS*." 

"Iceedge" made the statement saying people hate the Soviet regime and then calling it the Russian government in the same sentence.

Today in the Baltics about 30% of the population is comprised of ethnic Russians and they are hated by the majority as RybackGuy so clearly stated. Are they communists? I don't know. But, the animosity and discrimination is leveled against Russians, not communists.

No, Tomas, Russophobia is alive and well.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> This is completely wrong. Soviet camps were indeed "death camps". he difference is, that Nazi camps killed their prisoners and Soviet camps just made them work until their long and torturous death. As ice_edge said, "work themselves to death".


The difference is that the Nazis believed that certain ethnic groups should be exterminated. The people that they believed should not be allowed to live were rounded up and put into concentration camps and gassed, shot, and hung by the millions. These were camps where real genocide was committed.

Soviet camps under the GULAG were for criminals, and political prisoners. While I do *NOT* condone the exceptionally harsh conditions that led to the deaths of many prisoners, these were not "extermination" camps. While there was a high death rate from overwork and insufficient rations, the majority of prisoners served out there sentences and were eventually released into society. That doesn't make what was done to them right if they were not criminals according to the penal law, i.e. murderers, rapists, etc.

However, I reiterate that these were *NOT* Nazi type extermination camps designated for the liquidation of entire nationalities. They were harsh punishment camps that resulted in the deaths of many inmates. 

The chart below was taken from the *anti-communist J. Arch Getty's *essay on the Soviet custodial population from 1934 to 1953 in the *AMERICAN HISTORICAL REVIEW, 1993*. It was taken from newly opened KGB/NKVD archives. 

*THIS CHART SHOWS THAT MOST PRISONERS LIVED AND WERE RELEASED







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THIS CHART SHOWS THAT THERE WERE FAR MORE PRISONERS WHO VIOLATED THE PENAL LAW THAN POLITICAL PRISONERS








[/URL][/IMG]*


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

I guess my sister in laws family is just pretending to be dead


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

stevefox1200 said:


> I guess my sister in laws family is just pretending to be dead


I suppose when you can't refute an argument the next best thing is to come up with a meaningless sarcastic statement.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

So, far *Norway* has a comfortable lead with *7 medals *with *Netherlands*, *US*, *Canada*, and *Russia* tied for *2nd place *with *4 medals *each.

The only Eastern European countries on the board are *Czech Republic *with *2 medals*, and *Poland*, *Slovakia*, and *Ukraine* with *1* each. There's plenty of time, but I have a feeling Eastern Europe is not going to be doing as good as might be hoped. 

Belarus has yet to win one and I'm starting to mentally relive the last Olympics where we did not perform as well as expected. 

- Mike


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## ice_edge (Aug 4, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Before this discussion expanded into its present form, my main (and only) point was that Americans and Europeans are Russophobes. Communism was an excuse to expand on that Russophobia. By identifying the fact that there were multiple ethnic groups involved in leading and making policy in the USSR I was trying to demonstrate that Russians, per say, are not necessarily the main villains here.
> 
> Anyway, I'm howling at the moon here. We probably should move on to another topic like the Winter Olympics.
> 
> - Mike


*
As I have already mentioned Russians(former soviets) are not the only main villains here. Of course there are also people who stand behind people and support their ideas and than we have people who give those certain people financial support. 

Anyways main point still stands about me not being so fond of corrupt governments. That goes a long way. *


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

ice_edge said:


> *
> As I have already mentioned Russians(former soviets) are not the only main villains here. Of course there are also people who stand behind people and support their ideas and than we have people who give those certain people financial support.
> 
> Anyways main point still stands about me not being so fond of corrupt governments. That goes a long way. *


Understood! 

Now I'll stretch the topic a little and show off a bit of Eastern Europe that I picked up today. I bought a *Yugoslavian "O-PAP" AK-47 *and it's a real beauty.:topic: 

I have a *YUGO M70 AK-47 *that I picked up 6 or 7 years ago. This one is very similar. They both have the heavy duty RPK type receiver and are really solid, heavy rifles. The main differences that I can see on this *"O-PAP" AK* is that there is no bayonet mount, but it has the side rail for mounting a scope. Personally, I can't see putting a scope on an AK-47.:argh: 

In any case, I am a big fan of Yugoslavian rifles. I have a *M59 YUGO SKS * (the original without the grenade launcher) in addition to the two AKs. IMHO, the *ZASTAVA* Armory is on par with *TULA* and *IZHEVSK*. We've never had a jam with the* M70 *after putting a couple of thousand rounds through it. The only disadvantage of the *YUGO AKs* is that the gas tube and underguard are longer than on the traditional *AK*. So, you can't interchange parts if necessary like with AKs manufactured elsewhere.

- Mike







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## ice_edge (Aug 4, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Understood!
> 
> Now I'll stretch the topic a little and show off a bit of Eastern Europe that I picked up today. I bought a *Yugoslavian "O-PAP" AK-47 *and it's a real beauty.:topic:
> 
> ...


*It feels like you're going completely off topic here. Unfortunately I have no interest in these rifles you're talking about and don't feel any need talking about them either. 

It seems our convo is done so yeah maybe it might be best thing to move to another topic. *


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

ice_edge said:


> *It feels like you're going completely off topic here. Unfortunately I have no interest in these rifles you're talking about and don't feel any need talking about them either.
> 
> It seems our convo is done so yeah maybe it might be best thing to move to another topic. *


No problem. I was just trying to steer the thread to a different subject so we could get less combatative on here. Maybe, Eastern European firearms wasn't the way to go with that idea! :argh:

- Mike :|


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## ice_edge (Aug 4, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> No problem. I was just trying to steer the thread to a different subject so we could get less combative on here. Maybe, Eastern European firearms wasn't the way to go with that idea! :argh:
> 
> - Mike :|


*Yeah I got the gesture. TBH I was about to make a really long reply to you but I myself choice to shorten it down drastically. We where kinda thinking in the same way. It sure was started to get really heated and I know how this stuff can get out of hand easily. Important to know once you start talking politics and historical events. But I believe as long as we are both aware of this we will also both be aware to avoid flamewars.

Now you guys can continue talking about Winter Olympics. Unfortunately I have no interest in that area either. *


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

ice_edge said:


> *Yeah I got the gesture. TBH I was about to make a really long reply to you but I myself choice to shorten it down drastically. We where kinda thinking in the same way. It sure was started to get really heated and I know how this stuff can get out of hand easily. Important to know once you start talking politics and historical events. But I believe as long as we are both aware of this we will also both be aware to avoid flamewars.
> 
> Now you guys can continue talking about Winter Olympics. Unfortunately I have no interest in that area either. *


Well, to keep you in the conversation we could discuss trolls. I mean the kind that live up in your neck of the woods, mostly in Norway from what I understand.:|

- Mike


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## ice_edge (Aug 4, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Well, to keep you in the conversation we could discuss trolls. I mean the kind that live up in your neck of the woods, mostly in Norway from what I understand.:|
> 
> - Mike


*Nah I'm still part of these conversations. ATM I'm waiting for cat to swing by and tell me more about her Ukrainian roots. 

As far as these trolls go here....I dunno if you're trying to make a pun between the folklore trolls and internet trolls or not:lol. *


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

BELARUS IS ON THE BOARD!

*DARYA DOMRACHEVA/ДАРЬЯ ДОМРАЧЕВА* won the first medal, a *GOLD,* for *Belarus* by kicking ass in the Biathlon *Women's 10 Km Pursuit*. She missed just one shot and came in forty seconds ahead of second place *Norwegian*, *Tora Berger*.

*GOOD JOB, DASHA! / МОЛОДЕЦ, ДАША! ЗА РОДИНУ!*

















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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Eastern Europe is looking mediocre in the early stages of the Winter Olympics in Sochi, Russian Federation.

For me the surprise so far has been Slovenia. The former republic of Yugoslavia is a very small country with around 2 million people. However, going into today they have 4 medals - 1 gold, 1 silver, and 2 bronze. The rest of Eastern Europe looks like this as of February 13th:

Country____G S B___TOTAL
SLOVENIA___1 1 2_____4
CZECH REP__0 2 1_____3
POLAND_____2 0 0_____2
BELARUS____1 0 0_____1
SLOVAKIA___1 0 0_____1
LATVIA______0 0 1_____1
UKRAINE____0 0 1_____1

*SLOVENIA'S TINA MAZE GRABS THE GOLD IN WOMEN'S DOWNHILL SKIING*


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

BELARUS PICKS UP TWO MORE MEDALS

Belarus picked up two more medals - a *GOLD* and a *BRONZE* in the individual women's 15 Km Biathlon. Byelorussian athletes have *2 **GOLDS* and *1 BRONZE *so far. 

*DARYA DOMRACHEVA/ДАРЬЯ ДОМРАЧЕВА *won her second *GOLD* and *NADEZHDA SKARDINO/НАДЕЖДА СКАРДИНО * picked up a *BRONZE* in the same event.

Some of the best shots in WW II were Eastern Slavic women snipers. Domracheva and Skardino have upheld the tradition - they can shoot and ski with the best of them!

- Mike

*NADYA SHOOTS TO A BRONZE IN THE 15 KM WOMEN'S BIATHLON*


















*DASHA DOES IT AGAIN! GOLD NUMBER 2!!*


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## ice_edge (Aug 4, 2011)

*Bro just one thing here. The thing is you can actually edit your own posts and don't need to triple or quadriple post you know. Just saying. 

Anywho let's talk about Ukraine. You know I actually know someone from Ukraine and might be going there soon. I heard they are as old school as Lithuania in those parts. *


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

I'm not sure that Ukraine is the best place to go to right now. Unless you stay out of the danger zones, of course.


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Kharkiv is fine, Kiev not so much nor is Odessa, Odessa has always been a shithole though :terry


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## ice_edge (Aug 4, 2011)

TomasThunder619 said:


> I'm not sure that Ukraine is the best place to go to right now. Unless you stay out of the danger zones, of course.


*
Well my cousins wife is from Ukraine(and I have good relationship with my cousin). I will be going there one day. Although I would like to learn some Russian first. It doesn't seem to be that hard IMO. 

Also I'm talking about eventually going there. Who knows at what time. It doesn't mean that I'm planning to go and demonstrate on Ukrainian streets against the government or anything you know:side:*


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## elhijodelbodallas (Jan 30, 2014)

Damn, this Batko dude has been brainwashed and he doesn't even realize it. RT is as credible and unbiased as WWE.com is to WWE.

Putin is a dictator and that's the bottom line. Their elections are a joke and you won't read about that in RT, I guarantee you that. The russian government cuts Ukraine's supply of natural gas when they feel the need to consolidate their power. Putin continues to show support to terrorist dictator Bashar Al-Assad. Every part of the world knows Putin is a dictator and his government is corrupt and dangerous. This has nothing to do with hatred of the russian people or communists, don't be ridiculous and don't compare people to nazis for expressing their opinions, especially when they makes good points as ice_edge did. Also, be very careful with the data you use and if it is reliable or not.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

elhijodelbodallas said:


> Damn, this Batko dude has been brainwashed and he doesn't even realize it. RT is as credible and unbiased as WWE.com is to WWE.
> 
> Putin is a dictator and that's the bottom line. Their elections are a joke and you won't read about that in RT, I guarantee you that. The russian government cuts Ukraine's supply of natural gas when they feel the need to consolidate their power. Putin continues to show support to terrorist dictator Bashar Al-Assad. Every part of the world knows Putin is a dictator and his government is corrupt and dangerous. This has nothing to do with hatred of the russian people or communists, don't be ridiculous and don't compare people to nazis for expressing their opinions, especially when they makes good points as ice_edge did. Also, be very careful with the data you use and if it is reliable or not.


Since I sign my name on everything that I write it shouldn't be a revelation that "*this Batko dude's*" name is *Mike* or *Misha*. Just don't call me Michael or Mikhail - the only one who called me that was my mother, царство ей небесное.

First of all, my analysis of Putin and of how the situation evolved in post-Soviet Russia can be found in *POST #26* on *PAGE #3*. There's no sense in repeating that here.

Secondly, I am definitely *NOT* brainwashed by RT. The only time I go to RT for a video or report is when the Western media is not reporting what is going on or omiting vital information. *My opinions have been formed by my life experience*, not RT, RIA NOVOSTI, UPI, or any other Eastern or Western media outlet. I lived for almost *6 1/2 years *in Moscow (*1990-1996*). I was married in *1989* in the Russian Orthodox Cathedral in *Kharkiv*, Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic and *my son was born in Kharkiv *in 1990 and christened in the same Orthodox cathedral. I also have relatives in *Belarus*, both in *Minsk* and *Grodno*. I have been to visit my father's side numerous times in Slootsk and Minsk. 

By the way, what are your credentials??? Have you ever lived in the Soviet Union? How about in one of the 15 post-Soviet republics? How's your Russian? You don't speak it!?! OK, how's your Ukrainian or Byelorussian? Well, how about your Latvian, Estonian, or Lithuanian? Or, do you just speak American English and call everyone "*dude*?"

Regarding Assad, while Assad may be a dictator he is far better than any of the middle eastern dictators that Washington supports, i.e. Saud family and others. *Under the Assad family the Christians and Muslims of Syria have been living in peace for the last 40 years*. 

The U.S. supported rebels are for the most part *not* Syrians. Their ranks are inundated with* Al Qaida *and *Muslim Brotherhood Islamic jihadist radicals *from myriad Muslim nations. These "freedom fighters" have been burning down and desecrating Syrian Orthodox churches in the areas that they control and slaughtering non-Muslims and Muslims who oppose them. If they win the secular Assad regime will be replaced by a radical Islamic government and Sharia Law. 

So, perhaps you should be more careful with the data you use. On the other hand, you haven't provided any data - just your opinion. Also, I never called iceage a Nazi. I might have mentioned something about Trolls, but I was refering to the Scandanavian kind. That was another poster who believes that Eastern Europeans are beneath Western Europeans whom I called a Nazi.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

ice_edge said:


> *
> Well my cousins wife is from Ukraine(and I have good relationship with my cousin). I will be going there one day. Although I would like to learn some Russian first. It doesn't seem to be that hard IMO.
> 
> Also I'm talking about eventually going there. Who knows at what time. It doesn't mean that I'm planning to go and demonstrate on Ukrainian streets against the government or anything you know:side:*


You will be surprised how easy you will pick up the Cyrillic alphabet. That is what scares most non-Russian speakers the most. However, the real obstacle to learning proper Russian is the fact that it is a highly inflected language. Much more so than its related languages of Ukrainian, Byelorussian, Serbian, Bulgarian, etc.

The endings of the nouns and adjectives are constantly changing depending on their usage. I would say that this is the most frustrating part for foreigners studying Russian.

On the other hand, if you just need the language for a trip and are not making a serious study of it then you should be fine.

- Mike


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## ice_edge (Aug 4, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> .
> 
> So, perhaps you should be more careful with the data you use. On the other hand, you haven't provided any data - just your opinion. Also, I never called iceage a Nazi. I might have mentioned something about Trolls, but I was referring to the Scandinavian kind. That was another poster who believes that Eastern Europeans are beneath Western Europeans whom I called a Nazi.
> 
> - Mike


*It's ice_edge unless you where making an Ice Age pun there Mike. Yeah you mentioned something about trolls but never elaborated on that troll pic and what you meant by it. Also what Scandinavian troll kind are you referring to here? This mystery deepens by the minute here.

Also on a side note my Lithuanian is pretty decent and fluent:angel. *



Batko10 said:


> You will be surprised how easy you will pick up the Cyrillic alphabet. That is what scares most non-Russian speakers the most. However, the real obstacle to learning proper Russian is the fact that it is a highly inflected language. Much more so than its related languages of Ukrainian, Byelorussian, Serbian, Bulgarian, etc.
> 
> The endings of the nouns and adjectives are constantly changing depending on their usage. I would say that this is the most frustrating part for foreigners studying Russian.
> 
> ...


*Yeah the thing is I took a Russian language course about 7 years ago. Can't remember much form it though but from my standpoint it wasn't that hard. Learning Japanese looked way tougher TBH. But once again Lithuanian language have been influenced by Russian. I mean we have borrowed so many words from Russians. Besides everyone in my mom's and grandmothers generation speaks Russian. 
*


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

ice_edge said:


> *It's ice_edge unless you where making an Ice Age pun there Mike. Yeah you mentioned something about trolls but never elaborated on that troll pic and what you meant by it. Also what Scandinavian troll kind are you referring to here? This mystery deepens by the minute here.
> 
> *




Actually, this time there was no pun intended. I mistakenly wrote "iceage" instead of "iceedge."

Let me delve into the trolls for a clarification.

My first attempt to change the subject and diffuse what was turning into a possible flame war didn't do very well. The idea of discussing an Eastern European AK-47 was a real stretch. It was off-topic and, obviously, of no interest to anyone but me.:|

The "troll" post was also designed to change the subject and diffuse a potential time bomb. A "*Troll*" can be a being of Scandinavian folklore. The word "*troll*" as an English verb means to drag a net or bait on a line with a hook behind a boat in an attempt to catch fish. 

In internet-speak the *verb* "troll" is turned into a *noun*. Instead of saying that a "user trolls the internet to instigate a flame war," the user is simply designate a "troll," i.e. one who trolls the internet waters looking for a fight/argument, etc. 

There isn't much of a deep meaning to my attempt at playing on words. In fact, I might even be losing my mind from watching too many RT videos and reading too many NY Times editorials. It's that or I have contracted Mad Cow Disease!

- Mike


----------



## ice_edge (Aug 4, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Actually, this time there was no pun intended. I mistakenly wrote "iceage" instead of "iceedge."
> 
> Let me delve into the trolls for a clarification.
> 
> ...


*
Yeah so it was a spelling error after all huh? Hmm although it would work as pun too. People use it as a pun to ice_edge in rants from time to time(my user was actually designed to makes pun with).

Yeah Mike it seems you where the only one here who was interested in talking rifles while the rest of us wanted to talk about hot issues. I would suggest making a gun/rifle thread if you want to talk about it on topic. Just something to consider there. As for me I'm more into collecting daggers and swords.

As far as troll thing yeah I was pretty much aware of things you mentioned. I was just thinking to which trolls you where referring too. The folklore ones, internet ones or both. 

Question I have to ask if it's only part of Scandinavian folklore or more lores than that? But if we go deeper into that we would once again go off topic so a thread just for these issues could be created. 

Either going on topic I would ask what places should one visit while going to Ukraine and Russia since one of these days I will be visiting both of those countries. *


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

ice_edge said:


> *
> 
> 
> Either going on topic I would ask what places should one visit while going to Ukraine and Russia since one of these days I will be visiting both of those countries. *


Let me think on that one. I don't want to just give you something off the top of my head. 

I would make a suggestion to visit Belarus since you are literally next door. You should go even if it is just to see how the people really live so the next time you hear the lies from the American and EU media about President Lukashenko and Belarus you will know the truth for yourself. Don't believe me. "Come and See!"/"Иди и смотри!" (OK - there's a double entendre there. What am I refering to?)

- Mike


----------



## elhijodelbodallas (Jan 30, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> Since I sign my name on everything that I write it shouldn't be a revelation that "*this Batko dude's*" name is *Mike* or *Misha*. Just don't call me Michael or Mikhail - the only one who called me that was my mother, царство ей небесное.
> 
> First of all, my analysis of Putin and of how the situation evolved in post-Soviet Russia can be found in *POST #26* on *PAGE #3*. There's no sense in repeating that here.
> 
> ...


Dude, you come off as a crazy person in these posts. Who the hell cares what your real name is or where you married or baptized your kids or how your mom calls you. Why do you feel the need to write your name in every post you write? That's what your username is there for. And why are you bolding random words?

I was browsing through the forum and didn't expect to find a thread like this in a wrestling forum so I started reading most of it and you're constantly using RT as a source and calling other people nazis, more than once. There's no excuse for that. Here are some examples:



Batko10 said:


> We already know that. So does the 30% of your population that is ethnic Russian and against whom you blatantly discriminate.
> 
> On the flip side, we also know that you love Nazism and have a strong neo-Nazi culture at the present time.
> 
> - Mike





Batko10 said:


> In actuality, you sound very much like a Nazi who looks at the people of Eastern Europe as "untermann." I believe your statement in one of your first posts says it all about you:
> 
> - Mike


No, I'm not russian nor do I live in Russia. I live in the UK and that's why I have a clear, objective and impersonal perspective on this issue while you clearly do not. You use RT as a source, you used official data from the Belarus government to counterpoint an argument. Can't you understand how ridiculous that is? Do you also trust North Korea's information department? You're just completely misinformed because your russian bias makes you reject the "western" media in favor of widely known corrupt and non-credible sources. Your support of Bashar Al-Assad's reign of terror said everything I needed to know about you and the credibility of your opinions. You blame every opinion opposite of yours on the "biased" western media and you don't seem willing to accept other people's perspective on these issues so I'm not interested in prolonging this discussion any further. 

Now you're defending Lukashenko and his dictatorship and blaming the western media "lies". You're completely brainwashed. A simple google search you'll present you tons of evidence. The worst kind of blind is the one who doesn't want to see.

Go post some more of your firearms you crazy lunatic. I'm done here.


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

elhijodelbodallas said:


> Dude, you come off as a crazy person in these posts. Who the hell cares what your real name is or where you married or baptized your kids or how your mom calls you. Why do you feel the need to write your name in every post you write? That's what your username is there for. And why are you bolding random words?
> 
> *No, I'm not russian nor do I live in Russia.* I live in the UK and that's why I have a clear, objective and impersonal perspective on this issue while you clearly do not. You use RT as a source, you used official data from the Belarus government to counterpoint an argument. Can't you understand how ridiculous that is? Do you also trust North Korea's information department? You're just completely misinformed because your russian bias makes you reject the "western" media in favor of widely known corrupt and non-credible sources. Your support of Bashar Al-Assad's reign of terror said everything I needed to know about you and the credibility of your opinions. You blame every opinion opposite of yours on the "biased" western media and you don't seem willing to accept other people's perspective on these issues so I'm not interested in prolonging this discussion any further.
> 
> ...


Starting with your first post you were rude and depended on name calling and personal attacks. Apparently, nothing has changed with this "last" post.

I take that back. You did do something different - you left me *negative rep,* because you are unable to debate and depend on rude and belligerent behavior. (Did you notice the highlighted words?) 

You have no personal credentials ,i.e. you can't speak any of the Slavic languages, have never been to the post-Soviet republics or Eastern Europe, are aware of only the US/NATO version of history, and have no idea of the culture of the post-Soviet and Eastern European nations.

My marriage and son's birth in Kharkiv, my 6 1/2 years living in Soviet and post-Soviet Russia, my family in Belarus, my ability to speak, read, write, and type in Russian* all give me a great deal more knowledge and personal experience than you have in this area.* That is why I mentioned them. 

Regarding the DPRK, you can check out *post #6* on *page 1* of the thread at the following link if you are really interested in my opinion:

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/anyth...m-jong-un-killing-his-uncle.html#post29273041 

Keep up the name calling and nastiness and you won't be around here for very long. 

As Mick Foley used to say, *"HAVE A NICE DAY!"*

- Mike


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Just randomly came across this:



> In 1929, the Soviet Union was desperate to boost its industrial productivity. After noticing that machines don't need to take breaks the way humans do, they devised a brilliant plan to keep factories running 24 hours a day, seven days a week, never stopping until the collective power of the organized proletariat would crush its rivals under its massive, mechanized boot. It was a fine plan, but there was one tiny problem: In order to make these never-stopping, never-failing factories run, the human beings manning the factories also had to function like cold, tireless machines. How would they solve this issue?
> 
> Why, with a shiny new calendar, comrade!
> 
> ...


Pretty interesting and funny article. Here's the full article if you're interested: http://www.cracked.com/article_20849_5-cultures-whose-calendars-would-break-your-concept-time.html

I just thought I'd share this with you.


----------



## Spanish Lariato (Jul 26, 2011)

elhijodelbodallas said:


> No, I'm not russian nor do I live in Russia. I live in the UK and that's why I have a clear, objective and impersonal perspective on this issue while you clearly do not. You use RT as a source, you used official data from the Belarus government to counterpoint an argument. Can't you understand how ridiculous that is? Do you also trust North Korea's information department? You're just completely misinformed because your russian bias makes you reject the "western" media in favor of widely known corrupt and non-credible sources. Your support of Bashar Al-Assad's reign of terror said everything I needed to know about you and the credibility of your opinions. You blame every opinion opposite of yours on the "biased" western media and you don't seem willing to accept other people's perspective on these issues so I'm not interested in prolonging this discussion any further.
> 
> Now you're defending Lukashenko and his dictatorship and blaming the western media "lies". You're completely brainwashed. A simple google search you'll present you tons of evidence. The worst kind of blind is the one who doesn't want to see.


How can an Englishman says that he is non-belligerent in the Syria's Coup d'etat? UK armed and provided logistic support (and still does) to the islamic fundamentalists that are now operating in Syria. The objetive of these criminals is to subjugate syrians under the Sharia and become the Al-Qaeda playground (a la Afghanistan who once was a country where women had rights and could go to college among other things and now is a terrorist shithole). I don't think Syria government is perfect (they are capitalists) but hell, I choose the only secular and progressive country in the Middle East over an islamic wasteland whose resources are robbed by the NATO any time of the day.


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## InTheAirTonight (Jan 1, 2014)

USA! USA! USA!










'Mericuh number 1!


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

USA! USA! USA!
'Mericuh number 1![/QUOTE said:


> Hmm... I will check my atlas again, but the last time I looked the USA was not in Eastern Europe. Unless Poland is becoming the 51st state of the union (which may happen sooner than we think) then I would say that this post is :topic:
> 
> - Mike
> 
> P.S. Seriously, we know that the US and Russia are going to win alot of medals. It's a given and not very interesting. What I find interesting is a tiny country like Netherlands near the top in medals. Granted, Netherlands also isn't in Eastern Europe, but it's a heck of a better human interest story than the US and Russia.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

DASHA DOES IT AGAIN / NETHERLANDS JUGGERNAUT CONTINUES

Belarus increased its total medal count to 5 with *4 GOLDS* - *3* of which were won by *Darya Domracheva *in Biathlon events. She sewed up her *3rd GOLD* today in the *Women's 12.5 km Mass Start Biathlon *event. As in her previous victories Dasha missed only one shot and left the second place finisher in the dust. *Gabriela Soukalova *of the *Czech Republic* finished second a full 20 seconds behind Domracheva. Dasha is the *first woman* to win *3 GOLDS* in the Biathlon. 

Equally amazing is the *"Dutch Juggernaut" *that is sweeping away all competition in the Sochi Winter Olympics. The Netherlands is in first place in total medals count with *17* medals so far (*5-5-7*). I don't know where this power has suddenly come from. Looking back on Netherlands past Winter Olympic performances we see decent performances, but nothing spectacular:

*2010___4-1-3*
*2006___3-2-4*
*2002___3-5-0*
*1998___5-4-2*


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

The Dutch have always been the juggernaut of speed skating and that's where they traditionally get nearly all of their medals. This year, they've gotten all but one of their medals from the skating rink.

A big reason for their success this year has been their competition not quite living up to their expectations while the Dutch have been consistently good; it's not just them suddenly getting so much better.


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## ice_edge (Aug 4, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Let me think on that one. I don't want to just give you something off the top of my head.
> 
> I would make a suggestion to visit Belarus since you are literally next door. You should go even if it is just to see how the people really live so the next time you hear the lies from the American and EU media about President Lukashenko and Belarus you will know the truth for yourself. Don't believe me. "Come and See!"/"Иди и смотри!" (OK - there's a double entendre there. What am I refering to?)
> 
> - Mike


*I dunno how you it turned out to be from Ukraine(which I will surely going one day) to Belarus:argh:. What do you mean by "how people really live"? What is your point with your statement? I really don't get it Batko.

And yeah I heard how people live there. I heard all the stories about Belarus but I have no interest of going there anytime soon. Also according to things you hear and know. What is the truth?

P.S and please use the edit button(there is also a multi quote button). There is a reason why multi(double, triple) posting is not encouraged by the rules. *


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

ice_edge said:


> *I dunno how you it turned out to be from Ukraine(which I will surely going one day) to Belarus:argh:. What do you mean by "how people really live"? What is your point with your statement? I really don't get it Batko.
> 
> And yeah I heard how people live there. I heard all the stories about Belarus but I have no interest of going there anytime soon. Also according to things you hear and know. What is the truth?
> 
> P.S and please use the edit button(there is also a multi quote button). There is a reason why multi(double, triple) posting is not encouraged by the rules. *


Well, if you live in Sweden and are making a trip to Ukraine it wouldn't be a stretch to make a stopover in Minsk since it is on the way.

What's to get? The western mass media criticizes Belarus and President Lukashenko ceaselessly. The country is presented to westerners like a prison or something like the DPRK, i.e. North Korea. I simply suggested making a side trip to Belarus to see for yourself how the people are living. I've been there (numerous times). I urge everyone who believes the anti-Belarus propaganda to go see for themselves. One picture is worth a thousand words. 

For people who live in Scandanavia and Western Europe it is not as big a deal to get over to Belarus as it is for Americans or Canadians. I was just throwing out a suggestion. Or, you could just keep listening to Radio Free Europe, the BBC, and other western anti-Belarus rants.

- Mike

P.S. The "Come and See" was a play on the title of a 1987 movie about the Nazi occupation of Byelorussia.


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## WWCturbo (Jun 21, 2012)

Soviet Russia's retardedness is basically what f**ked up the whole Eastern Europe. So everybody say thanks to mother Russia! and also F U


----------



## ice_edge (Aug 4, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Well, if you live in Sweden and are making a trip to Ukraine it wouldn't be a stretch to make a stopover in Minsk since it is on the way.
> 
> What's to get? The western mass media criticizes Belarus and President Lukashenko ceaselessly. The country is presented to westerners like a prison or something like the DPRK, i.e. North Korea. I simply suggested making a side trip to Belarus to see for yourself how the people are living. I've been there (numerous times). I urge everyone who believes the anti-Belarus propaganda to go see for themselves. One picture is worth a thousand words.
> 
> ...


*Oh you maybe thought I would be taking car there and in that case I could see where you're coming from. Nah I would be going by plane. Although you never know what might happen. Would I mind stopping by Belarus for a day or 2? No. Would I plan going there? No. 

Yeah another thing I want to tell you is I'm not a fan of mainstream media in general. If anything I'm a big supporter of alternative media sources(here on the internet). Honestly I haven't watched television(this includes main stream news but also just about anything else) since July last year. I don't want much to do with bias media in general. I only pick up news papers and want to read what's happening in this country and not the news which have been bought from mostly one and the same source with nothing more but talking points added to the mix. I would hardly call a bias news tbh. 
*


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

ice_edge said:


> *Oh you maybe thought I would be taking car there and in that case I could see where you're coming from. Nah I would be going by plane. Although you never know what might happen. Would I mind stopping by Belarus for a day or 2? No. Would I plan going there? No.
> 
> Yeah another thing I want to tell you is I'm not a fan of mainstream media in general. If anything I'm a big supporter of alternative media sources(here on the internet). Honestly I haven't watched television(this includes main stream news but also just about anything else) since July last year. I don't want much to do with bias media in general. I only pick up news papers and want to read what's happening in this country and not the news which have been bought from mostly one and the same source with nothing more but talking points added to the mix. I would hardly call a bias news tbh.
> *


Will you come back to Lithuania?


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## ice_edge (Aug 4, 2011)

TomasThunder619 said:


> Will you come back to Lithuania?


*You mean like come back and live there? No, not really. It's either going to be England, Sweden or Gran Canaria for me in the near future bro:angel. I do come to Lithuania to visit it like once a year. *


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

ice_edge said:


> *You mean like come back and live there? No, not really. It's either going to be England, Sweden or Gran Canaria for me in the near future bro:angel. I do come to Lithuania to visit it like once a year. *


Of course not to live. Just visit. When you come back here where do you go? You visit some places or see your family and relatives?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

WWCturbo said:


> Soviet Russia's retardedness is basically what f**ked up the whole Eastern Europe. So everybody say thanks to mother Russia! and also F U


That is definitely a deep scientific analysis of post WW II Eastern Europe. You might want to submit that for your Phd Thesis.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

HERE WE GO AGAIN!

The government released all prisoners arrested during the riots under an amnesty, the oppposition was offered the position of Premier, and the Supreme Rada is discussing changing the Ukrainian Constitution.

Despite all this, the Western Ukrainian neo-Nazis are back in the streets of Kiev again with their molotov cocktails, firearms, and other assorted weapons. I think it's pretty obvious they won't rest until they take over the government by force or are put down by the military.

At this point the only solution is to declare martial law and deploy the military. These people have no intention of working for a compromise. They want to impose their agenda on all Ukrainian people like they did after the U.S. instigated and backed the "Orange Revolution" in 2005. 

- Mike

KIEV, February 18 (RIA Novosti) – Anti-government protesters and police engaged in violent street battles in Ukraine’s capital Tuesday that left hundreds injured and reportedly at least three demonstrators dead.

Fighting escalated in Kiev as a standoff played out inside the parliament, where deputies faced off over changes to the constitution that the opposition has said could be a way out of the political paralysis gripping the country.

Thousands of radical demonstrators – many of them wielding shields and sticks and wearing masks – moving toward the parliament building around midday were confronted by police, who deployed rubber bullets, stun grenades and tear gas. Pictures from the front lines showed people among the rioters ripping up cobblestones to hurl at riot police.

Lesya Orobets, a deputy with the opposition Batkivshchyna party, said on her Facebook page that at least three protesters had been killed. Radio Free Europe cited opposition medic Olga Bogomolets as also saying, from a first aid point in the Officers House, a building near parliament, that three people had been killed and seven were in a serious condition.

Authorities had not confirmed those deaths by early evening.

The Interior Ministry said one person was killed at the offices of *the ruling Party of Regions headquarters, which was stormed by demonstrators Tuesday. *Police said they were investigating the cause of death.

Officials said that as of early Tuesday evening, *37 police officers had been injured in the unrest, five of them wounded by firearms used by protesters.
*
Earlier in the day inside parliament, opposition deputies had blocked the speaker’s rostrum in protest at pro-government deputies’ refusal to register a draft bill introducing reform to the constitution.

The bill was eventually registered, the opposition Svoboda party said on Twitter later Tuesday.

Opposition forces are seeking the restoration of the 2004 constitution, which they say would ensure a way out of the political crisis by transferring more powers to the parliament from the president.

The Party of Regions has said it is willing to review the law but has refused to automatically return to a previous version.

Large-scale street protests erupted in the capital, Kiev, and other Ukrainian cities in November after President Viktor Yanukovych backed away from deals to deepen political and economic cooperation with the EU and instead opted for closer ties with Russia.

The protests have sporadically descended into violence on both sides.

*Yanukovych has said he is ready to appoint a coalition government that includes members of the opposition, the speaker of parliament said last week.
*
Updated with details, changes headline.

*18 FEBRUARY 2014 - THE NEO-NAZI WESTERN UKRAINIAN ANIMALS ARE BACK IN THE STREET
*


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> HERE WE GO AGAIN!
> 
> The government released all prisoners arrested during the riots under an amnesty, the oppposition was offered the position of Premier, and the Supreme Rada is discussing changing the Ukrainian Constitution.
> 
> ...


I just find it amusing that you post this now when the government released the prisoners, but hadn't said a word about it when they captured them.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> I just find it amusing that you post this now when the government released the prisoners, but hadn't said a word about it when they captured them.


Why would I have mentioned it? It was a given that people were arrested. It was in the news reports that I posted. If you are rioting in the streets, throwing molotov cocktails at the police, and destroying property you risk being arrested. And, a few hundred were arrested. 

BTW, saying that the arrested rioters were "*captured*" is a misnomer. The three police officers that were taken hostage by the rioters were "*captured*." The scum that were released under amnesty were "*arrested*" for rioting, assault, and destruction of property.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Why would I have mentioned it? It was a given that people were arrested. It was in the news reports that I posted. If you are rioting in the streets, throwing molotov cocktails at the police, and destroying property you risk being arrested. And, a few hundred were arrested.
> 
> BTW, saying that the arrested rioters were "*captured*" is a misnomer. The three police officers that were taken hostage by the rioters were "*captured*." The scum that were released under amnesty were "*arrested*" for rioting, assault, and destruction of property.
> 
> - Mike


Three police officers were taken hostage for some time. Oh, great, because earlier today the same police killed FIVE protesters and injured hell knows how many more.


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Live stream, if anyone is interested:

http://www.onlinesat-tv.com/online.php?tv=5_Kanal&id=896


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## GothicBohemian (May 26, 2012)

I don’t know near enough about what’s happening in Ukraine as I feel I should – I take protest actions by citizens against their governments and any violent retaliation by either side quite seriously – so I’ll avoid jumping into this debate (and please, no one waste time offering me a deeper education on the topic; I have my own, preferred news sources) but thanks for posting the streaming link. I hope it all works out for the best.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> Three police officers were taken hostage for some time. Oh, great, because earlier today the same police killed FIVE protesters and injured hell knows how many more.


Tomas, you have to be kidding! The terrorists resumed their rioting today and *IF* anyone was killed it is on them. They started the riot, seized the Party of Regions Headquarters, and it is quite evident from the video that I posted that they are the aggressors, NOT the police.

Also, that is a big *IF* regarding rioters being killed. It could be an exaggeration. In any case, even if it is true the rioters are responsible. 

- Mike


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

From RT.com (yeah, I know):



> 18:24 GMT:
> Security forces have started an anti-terrorist operation at Independence Square in Kiev. The Berkut police forces and three water cannon have gathered at the scene, while armored troop carriers have reportedly surrounded the square. Protesters are calling for women and children to leave the area immediately, while stun grenades are exploding at the scene.


Just saw this live on TV. Shit is about to get serious.


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Tomas, you have to be kidding! The terrorists resumed their rioting today and *IF* anyone was killed it is on them. They started the riot, seized the Party of Regions Headquarters, and it is quite evident from the video that I posted that they are the aggressors, NOT the police.
> 
> Also, that is a big *IF* regarding rioters being killed. It could be an exaggeration. In any case, even if it is true the rioters are responsible.
> 
> - Mike


Berkut killed them and it is a fact. Why couldn't they have just arrested them like they used to do?


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> Berkut killed them and it is a fact. Why couldn't they have just arrested them like they used to do?


Tomas, I know that you're a smart guy. But, you're talking nonsense here. You saw the video of the rioters attacking police today. It was a vicious attack. The police kept retreating and the rioters did not stop their advance. At one point a police officer catches on fire from a thrown molotov cocktail. 

Rioters that were killed were *NOT* taken into a back alley, put on their knees, and shot. They were killed in the chaotic fighting that they themselves initiated. 

Have you ever been in a riot??? Whatever side you are on is your business. But, don't make excuses for the rioters. They started the disorders and took their chances. 

- Mike


----------



## GothicBohemian (May 26, 2012)

^ Tomas may or may not have, but I have Batko. I've done my part for activists of a different sort. By the time a protest becomes violent, there’s serious reasons for those clashes. If a significant portion of Ukrainians feel disenfranchised by their government, then that indicates a failure by politicians. They are meant to reflect and respect the wishes of their nation and, when such is impossible due to split opinions, to find peaceful compromises. Clearly, that hasn’t happened. 

Yes, protesters do take on the risk of arrest, injury and even death but they are, for the most part, ordinary people so determined to be heard that they do things they otherwise would not. Security forces are trained professionals, usually with military grade equipment, fighting civilians armed with makeshift weapons. Right or wrong, the responsibility to be cautious and restrained lies with the police and/or soldiers. They seem to have lost control of the crowd and, with it, allowed the violence to escalate on both sides. 

You're from a police background, are you not? (or perhaps I'm thinking of someone else?) I'm sure you've some experience with this and know how quickly a situation can get out of control, especially when one side is a coalition of passionate, random people without clear leadership.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

GothicBohemian said:


> ^ By the time a protest becomes violent, there’s serious reasons for those clashes. If a significant portion of Ukrainians feel disenfranchised by their government, then that indicates a failure by politicians. They are meant to reflect and respect the wishes of their nation and, when such is impossible due to split opinions, to find peaceful compromises. Clearly, that hasn’t happened.


Apparently, you are not familiar with post-Soviet Ukrainian politics. The people who are rioting in the streets are the same people who supported the government that was voted out in 2010 by the Ukrainian people. That government only got into power in 2005 because of the “Orange Revolution,” i.e. U.S. instigated regime change.

The government of Yushchenko/Tymoshenko failed to respect and reflect the wishes of a significant portion, if not the majority, of the country. Instead they attempted to drag Ukraine into NATO despite the fact that the majority of the people were (are) against it. They made heroes out of Nazi collaborators and banned the Russian language. Despite their feelings of disenfranchisement, the majority of people suffered through 5 years of the regime controlled by Western Ukrainians and voted them out in 2010. They didn’t riot in the streets.

The Western Ukrainians only have to wait less than a year for the upcoming presidential elections. However, knowing that they don’t have the votes to put over their candidate they have taken to riots and insurgency. Their confidence is bolstered by the fact that they have the open support of the United States and European Union just like they did 10 years ago during the “Orange Revolution.”

Regarding compromises, the Western Ukrainian insurgents are the ones who have refused to consider any compromises, not the government.




GothicBohemian said:


> ^
> Yes, protesters do take on the risk of arrest, injury and even death but they are, for the most part, ordinary people so determined to be heard that they do things they otherwise would not. Security forces are trained professionals, usually with military grade equipment, fighting civilians armed with makeshift weapons. Right or wrong, the responsibility to be cautious and restrained lies with the police and/or soldiers. They seem to have lost control of the crowd and, with it, allowed the violence to escalate on both sides.


When mobs are coming at you with Molotov cocktails and assorted weapons, including firearms, your responsibility becomes self-preservation along with the fulfilling of your sworn duty. Caution and restraint on the part of the police apply to keeping order in a normal demonstration or protest. The gloves come off when you are talking about being attacked by an armed mob of insurgents. It is no longer a matter of keeping order, but stopping an outright insurgency.

The very fact that the police “seem to have lost control of the crowd” points to the very nature of the insurgency. *The violence has been escalated by the insurgents, not the police.* Unfortunately, if the police retake control of the situation people will scream police brutality. 




GothicBohemian said:


> You're from a police background, are you not? (or perhaps I'm thinking of someone else?) I'm sure you've some experience with this and know how quickly a situation can get out of control, especially when one side is a coalition of passionate, random people without clear leadership.


You're correct and I was a police officer assigned to the borough of the Bronx during the mass riots in NYC in the summer of 1977 when we had the power failure that blacked out most of the East Coast of the U.S.

Those were bad, but they can't compare to what the Western Ukrainians are perpetrating today with the backing of the West. The Ukrainian situation looks more like a planned revolution than people just going wild out of frustration.


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Damn, I can't find the video online, but just saw on the news how the fucking scumbag police 'Titushkas' randomly shot and killed two PEACEFUL protesters, two men who just were standing on the street and doing nothing. They weren't even in the crowd. They were just standing there, minding their own business. The fucking policemen then just took and dragged them somewhere. I wish a brutal, long and torturous death upon those retards who shot them. That's why I don't like police, especially riot police.



Batko10 said:


> You're correct and I was a police officer assigned to the borough of the Bronx during the mass riots in NYC in the summer of 1977 when we had the power failure that blacked out most of the East Coast of the U.S.
> 
> Those were bad, but they can't compare to what the Western Ukrainians are perpetrating today with the backing of the West. The Ukrainian situation looks more like a planned revolution than people just going wild out of frustration.


This explains a lot really. I now see why you are so strongly on the side of the police.

And here's a different video if anyone's interested:






Some stupid provokers from the opposition clashing with the police.

If anything can be said about this whole conflict, it's that it's a war without a winner (so far).


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> Damn, I can't find the video online, but just saw on the news how the fucking scumbag police 'Titushkas' randomly shot and killed two PEACEFUL protesters, two men who just were standing on the street and doing nothing. They weren't even in the crowd. They were just standing there, minding their own business. The fucking policemen then just took and dragged them somewhere. I wish a brutal, long and torturous death upon those retards who shot them. That's why I don't like police, especially riot police.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If anything, you're video proves my point. These are not simply riots by people who are just "venting" their frustrations. *This is an armed insurgency with vicious, brutal attacks on the police and any symbol of authority.* I see how the brave Western Ukrainian "freedom fighters" ganged up on that police officer and beat him brutally when he was down on the ground, if not killing him after the camera was shut off.

I can guarantee one thing - if this occurred in the Washington, London, Brussels, Paris, or any other major western capital *martial law would have already been declared and the military would have been called out.* The insurgents would have been branded criminals and terrorists and order restored very quickly.

However, since this insurgency in Ukraine is being supported and, according to some reports, financed by the U.S. and its allies in Western Europe the Ukrainian government is the bad guy and the insurgents are the heroes. I didn't expect any less than western hypocrisy. And, they haven't disappointed me.

Regarding my experience controlling the riots back in 1977, we did *NOT* have organized gangs armed with molotov cocktails, firearms, and other assorted weapons charging at us, i.e. openly attacking our ranks. There were some snipers shooting from the rooftops at us and there were some confrontations where crowds had to be beaten back with nightsticks. But, for the most part the riots were disorganized and there were no directed attacks on us. The scenario was more crowds gathering and destroying property and stealing merchandise. Then we would respond in force and the crowd would quickly disperse.

What is going on in Ukraine is nothing like what we had to deal with. * This is an armed REVOLUTION organized and supported by the WEST. * Washington has a two decade history of instigating and supporting regime changes since the dissolution of the Soviet Union. This looks like the handiwork of the spooks in the company.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

LATEST BREAKING NEWS ON INSURGENCY IN UKRAINE

*UKRAINE'S ACTING PREMIER CALLS PROTEST/RIOTS AN ATTEMPT TO SEIZE POWER*
KIEV, February 19 (RIA Novosti) – Ukraine’s acting prime minister said Wednesday that the violent protests that have rocked the capital were an attempt to seize power by force.

“Both society and authorities strongly condemn the violence. This is not a sign of democracy. … *This is the manipulation of people’s minds and an attempt to take power by force,*” Serhiy Arbuzov told a Cabinet meeting.

*At least 25 people, including nine police officers, were killed *in bloody, day-long clashes that ran into the early hours of Wednesday morning in the Ukrainian capital. Officials said *more than 70 policemen suffered gunshot wounds in the fighting*.

Unrest erupted around noon Tuesday as thousands of people marched on the parliament building, where a standoff was taking place over proposed constitutional reforms that the opposition said could provide a way out of the political crisis that is paralyzing the country.

In his address to the nation Wednesday, Ukrainian *President Viktor Yanukovych said that opposition activists had crossed the line by calling for supporters to take up arms at mass protests intended to oust him from power*.



*UKRAINIAN SECURITY SERVICES LAUNCHES ANTI-TERRORISM OPERATION*
KIEV, February 19 (RIA Novosti) – Ukraine’s main government security agency declared what it called a nationwide anti-terrorism operation on Wednesday.

The announcement came as the authorities continued attempts to dismantle a protest camp in the capital Kiev a day after 25 people died and more than a thousand were injured in violent clashes between riot police and anti-government demonstrators.

Oleskandr Yakymenko, head of the Ukrainian Security Service (known by its Ukrainian acronym SBU) described the violence as “deliberate terrorist acts.”

“*Today we are witnessing deliberate and intended violence – arsons, killings, hostage-taking and intimidations – committed with a purpose to achieve unlawful goals,*” he said in a statement.

The SBU said that *members of extremist groups had seized at least 1,500 firearms and 100,000 cartridges in the ongoing riots*. It gave no information about where these weapons came from.

“Radical and extremist groups pose a real threat to millions of Ukrainian citizens. That’s why the SBU and the Anti-terrorism Center have decided to launch an anti-terrorism operation in Ukraine,” Yakymenko said.

The announcement coincided with a seizure of a regional SBU office in the western Ukrainian city of Lviv. A crowd of protesters burst into the practically empty building and smashed cars in a parking lot outside the office, setting fire to one of the vehicles.



*PRESIDENT YANUKOVICH SACKS CHIEF OF ARMED FORCES*
KIEV, February 19 (RIA Novosti) - Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych has sacked the head of the armed forces, Col. Gen. Volodymyr Zamana, his press service announced Wednesday.

The reason for the dismissal was not immediately clear, but *Zamana was quoted by the AFP news agency earlier this month as saying that "no-one has the right to use the armed forces to limit the rights of citizens."*

Yanukovych appointed Adm. Yuriy Ilyin, previously the head of the Ukrainian navy, as the new chief of the armed forces.

The presidential decree was published shortly after Ukraine’s main government security agency, the SBU, declared what it called a nationwide anti-terrorism operation.

*Ukraine’s defense ministry earlier said that its soldiers might take part in the operation by protecting vital military locations from “takeover attempts by terrorists.”
*



*OBAMA WARNS UKRAINE AGAINST USING MILITARY TO QUELL PROTESTS*
Bloomberg Businessweek, February 19: President Barack Obama warned Ukraine’s military against intervening to halt anti-government protests as the U.S. and European union moved toward imposing sanctions on Ukrainian officials. 

“*We hold the Ukrainian government primarily responsible in making sure it is dealing with peaceful protesters in an appropriate way*,” Obama told reporters before a meeting with Mexican President Enrique Pena Nieto at a North American leaders summit in Toluca, Mexico. “*That includes making sure the Ukrainian military does not step in to resolve issues that could be resolved by civilians.” 
*
The U.S. and EU are weighing freezing the assets of Ukraine’s most powerful officials and denying them travel visas after a crackdown on pro-democracy demonstrators in Kiev left at least 25 dead and stirred fears of a civil war. 

*Obama’s warning came as Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych granted sweeping powers to the army and police after a region declared independence from his government.* The Russian-backed leader’s security service said today it’s undertaking a nationwide operation to restore public order, giving the military the right to search, detain and even fire on Ukrainians. 

Obama said the U.S. would continue to engage all sides in the conflict and is working with the EU on a response. “*There will be consequences if people step over the line,” he said. 
*


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

For those who don't like reading too much, I took some pictures of my TV screen.









This is a map of protests in Ukraine.









This is Ruslana, holding a badge, ripped off a policeman, which is a badge of RUSSIAN MVD and some bullets from AK-47, a Kalashnikov. I would love to get an explanation from Batko on this. Please explain to me why was there Russian police there, when they said that they won't get into this conflict? And why were they using real guns and bullets, when they said they wouldn't?









This is a helmet of a protester, who was shot dead by the police. In case you still don't believe they use real bullets.









Police are blocking everyone's way to Maidan, so protesters have to leave their cars and walk on feet. Similarly, all trains going to Kiev are now delayed and their route was made longer, so that they now arrive to Kiev a few hours later than they used to.









This is a POLICE SNIPER. Mike, I would love to hear your opinion on this. Why is there a police sniper shooting protesters, when you said that police are only defending themselves.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> For those who don't like reading too much, I took some pictures of my TV screen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The map is a nice piece of propaganda for the insurgents, but is misleading. There are *8 regions *where there are "*mass protests*" - *6 western regions *and *2 central regions *(Kiev region and the region directly east of it). 

To make it look better they colored in *9 regions *in the East and South where they may have been one or two insignificant protests that fizzled. Those *9 regions *are as secure as the *5 regions *in blue 




TomasThunder619 said:


> This is Ruslana, holding a badge, ripped off a policeman, which is a badge of RUSSIAN MVD and some bullets from AK-47, a Kalashnikov. I would love to get an explanation from Batko on this. Please explain to me why was there Russian police there, when they said that they won't get into this conflict? And why were they using real guns and bullets, when they said they wouldn't?


*An insurgent holding up a RUSSIAN MVD shoulder patch means absolutely NOTHING!
*
Any one of us here can open an eBay account and buy one of those RUSSIAN MVD shoulder patches or badges. For $5 plus shipping you can buy the one at the following link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MVD-OF-RUSS...952?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c3ac14900

All sorts of types are available including OMON and SPETZNAZ.

If you can show us Russian police or soldiers fighting in the streets that is one thing. You can't, because they're not there. Showing us a shoulder patch is ludicrous.




TomasThunder619 said:


> This is a helmet of a protester, who was shot dead by the police. In case you still don't believe they use real bullets.


I am sure they are using real bullets against the insurgents now after Tuesday's *murder of 12 Police Officers*, most of whom were *shot dead*.








[/URL][/IMG] 
_Insurgents use real bullets, too. This dead police officer would tell you if he could talk._ 




TomasThunder619 said:


> Police are blocking everyone's way to Maidan, so protesters have to leave their cars and walk on feet. Similarly, all trains going to Kiev are now delayed and their route was made longer, so that they now arrive to Kiev a few hours later than they used to.


This would seem like a "peaceful" way to prevent more insurgents from reinforcing the rebels already in the Maidan area. The insignia on the back of this police officer's vest indicates he is a traffic cop. *Two of his fellow traffic police officers were shot dead Tuesday by the insurgents.
*



TomasThunder619 said:


> This is a POLICE SNIPER. Mike, I would love to hear your opinion on this. Why is there a police sniper shooting protesters, when you said that police are only defending themselves.


Tomas, do you really need an explanation? *The insurgents reignited the situation Tuesday after agreeing to a truce, openly called for the rebels to arm themselves and overthrow the government, and killed at least a dozen police officers. 
*
The gloves are off, bro! If you kill police, destroy property, endanger society, and openly call for the overthrow of the government you risk being shot. In the U.S. or any Western European capital they would have had the army in the street a long time ago.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> The map is a nice piece of propaganda for the insurgents, but is misleading. There are *8 regions *where there are "*mass protests*" - *6 western regions *and *2 central regions *(Kiev region and the region directly east of it).
> 
> To make it look better they colored in *9 regions *in the East and South where they may have been one or two insignificant protests that fizzled. Those *9 regions *are as secure as the *5 regions *in blue.


Can you prove that there are no protests there? Unless you can, I will not be persuaded.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> Can you prove that there are no protests there? Unless you can, I will not be persuaded.


I said there were relavtively small demonstrations that were of no consequence and no threat to the government in those regions.


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## GothicBohemian (May 26, 2012)

I just finished watching a news report on this – it pre-empted celebrating Canada’s two womens golds in our two most popular winter sports as the top story - and the situation is deteriorating. They’re heading toward chaos. I realize that both sides are upping the violence, but I stand by my belief that the greater responsibility for sane and controlled actions rests with the professionals, not the protesters. 

I hope for a positive resolution and that outside nations use caution before making Ukraine a playground for their disagreements and wars by proxy.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> I said there were relavtively small demonstrations that were of no consequence and no threat to the government in those regions.


But there are protests there hence those zones are painted in red. You can notice that there are also symbols on the map for administrative buildings taken and overthrown local governments. And these symbols aren't present in those regions you mentioned, therefore there are protests there, but nothing too serious. So the map is correct.


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## WWCturbo (Jun 21, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> That is definitely a deep scientific analysis of post WW II Eastern Europe. You might want to submit that for your Phd Thesis.
> 
> - Mike


Cheers mate.


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Brand new VICE doco on Ukraine


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Al Borland said:


> Brand new VICE doco on Ukraine


Why do they keep calling them protestors??? They themselves flat out stated at the beginning of the video, "This isn't a protest, it's an uprising." These people are *INSURGENTS*, not protestors.

- Mike


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Also new Pussy Riot footage 






Do the cossacks have any real authority are they just glorified security guards?


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

As for Pussy Riot, I don't like feminists and especially feminist groups, but I support them, because they were imprisoned even though they didn't do anything wrong.


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## elhijodelbodallas (Jan 30, 2014)

Batko10 in complete denial. It's amusing to read.


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## WWCturbo (Jun 21, 2012)

The guy lives in his own fictional world lol


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> As for Pussy Riot, I don't like feminists and especially feminist groups, but I support them, because they were imprisoned even though they didn't do anything wrong.


*Tomas, they were imprisoned for entering a Russian Orthodox Church in Moscow, desecrating the altar, disrupting the church, and performing an obscene song inside the church*.

Whether or not you are an atheist and don't like the Church, especially the Russian Orthodox Church, is irrelevant. If they went into a church, synagogue, mosque, or other religious institution in the United States or Western Europe and pulled this stunt they would have most certainly been arrested. In the U.S. they most likely would have also been charged with federal hate crime statutes.

If you look at the history of "Pussy Riot" they had been given alot of leeway with their protests in Moscow. They did their thing on top of trolleys, blocked businesses on the street while protesting, etc. and were never arrested. The desecration of the church was the last straw and got them arrested and tossed into prison.

*I disagree with what the cossacks did in this video.* However, I can also understand the animosity most Russian people have toward "Pussy Riot." You don't have to be pro-Putin to despise this bunch. They constantly scream that they have rights, but they trample on the rights of others with their obnoxious performances everytime you turn around - whether it is desecrating a religious building, blocking the sidewalk so some store owner can't do business, or disrupting people's right to go about their business in peace.

Mike
*This is why they were arrested, convicted, and sent to prison for a year. There is no excuse for this. They would have been arrested in the U.S. or Western Europe.*


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_killed_during_Euromaidan

If you look at this list, most people who died in February clashes were killed by snipers. Others were beaten to death by the police. How can anyone still defend the police and Berkut is beyond me. There were over a hundred people killed and only about 16 of them were policemen. 



> On 23 January 2013 then Prime Minister Mykola Azarov in an interview with BBC said that *police had not been issued with firearms*, and *denied any police officers being located on the rooftops* around the protest area. He made an assumption that the shooting of protesters was a provocation aimed at escalating violence.


Lies, lies, lies. He was blatantly lying. I wonder if Batko can find any way to defend him.

http://www.pravda.com.ua/photo-video/2014/01/31/7012297/
A video of a Berkut intentionally shooting at a medic with his arms raised. If anyone can even defend the Berkut in this video, then I give up my hopes in humanity.
EDIT: It appears that the video was removed. Damn!


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

BREAKING NEWS!​
Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych and opposition leaders have signed an agreement aimed at defusing the political crisis that has left scores of people dead and wounded in clashes this week. 

The deal clears the way for what is expected to be an early presidential election this year, and talks on the formation of a unity government.

Shortly after the deal was signed on February 21, the Ukrainian parliament voted to restore the country's 2004 constitution, with 386 of the Verkhovna Rada's 450 deputies voting in favor.

The 2004 constitution removes some powers from the presidential office, and enhances the powers of parliament.

Reverting to the 2004 constitution had been a key demand of the antigovernment movement. It was overturned by the Constitutional Court in 2010, after Yanukovych had taken office.

Lawmakers also voted on February 21 to approve an amnesty for protesters facing possible prosecution in connection with the last three months of unrest.

The deal was signed by the Russian-backed Yanukovych and Western-backed opposition leaders Oleh Tyahnybok, Vitali Klitschko, and Arseniy Yatsenyuk at the presidential headquarters in Kyiv, with envoys from Germany, France, and Poland alsoin attendance.

A Russian presidential envoy who had flown to Kyiv to help mediation efforts was not present for the signing. The reason for Vladimir Lukin's absence was not immediately clear.
EXPLAINER: Can Deal Reached End The Crisis?

Clashes this week between security forces and government opponents turned parts of Kyiv into a virtual war zone, leaving around 80 people dead and hundreds injured.

The signing came hours after Yanukovych stepped forward with an initiative to end the crisis.

His plan, described in a statement on the presidential website, includes an early presidential election, the formation of a unity government, and a return to the 2004 constitution, under which the president had reduced powers.

In his statement, Yanukovych gave no date for any new elections. The president was elected to a five-year term in 2010, and the next election was due in March 2015.

German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said an early presidential vote would be held this year, but no date has yet been set.

Opposition leader Tyahnybok said the opposition's conditions included the exclusion of Ukraine's current interior minister and prosecutor-general from a new government.

Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski, who participated in negotiations, said in a Twitter statement that the agreement was a "good compromise" that "gives peace a chance" and opens the way for reforms and for Ukraine to expand ties to Western Europe.

In a joint statement, the foreign ministers of Germany, France, and Poland praised the Ukrainian parties for their "courage and commitment." The statement also called for "an immediate end to all violence and confrontation in Ukraine."

Слава Україні!​


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_killed_during_Euromaidan
> 
> If you look at this list, most people who died in February clashes were killed by snipers. Others were beaten to death by the police. How can anyone still defend the police and Berkut is beyond me. There were over a hundred people killed and only about 16 of them were policemen.
> 
> ...


Wikipedia articles are notoriously slanted toward the U.S. and western agenda. Supposedly, anyone can become a correspondent and add to Wikipedia material. However, it seems that anything that doesn't conform to the west's agenda is removed. You complain about RT, well Wikipdia is the same thing just for the other side.

Regarding the alleged shooting of an unarmed medic by a Ukrainian police officer, that was pretty good, Tomas. You pulled that off just like in a courtroom when a lawyer gets in something he knows will be objected to and removed. The judge tells the jury to "disregard" the statement, but they already heard it. So, regardless of the fact that there is no proof, everyone heard it. 

Be that as it may, how come no response to my answer to your "Pussy Riot" post??? That's a typical western tactic-don't respond if your argument is weak. Just jump to another subject to deflect attention from the first argument.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> BREAKING NEWS!​
> Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych and opposition leaders have signed an agreement aimed at defusing the political crisis that has left scores of people dead and wounded in clashes this week.
> 
> The deal clears the way for what is expected to be an early presidential election this year, and talks on the formation of a unity government.
> ...



Let's see how long it takes before the insurgents break this truce restart their uprising. 

Смерть західним українським повстанцім


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Regarding the alleged shooting of an unarmed medic by a Ukrainian police officer, that was pretty good, Tomas. You pulled that off just like in a courtroom when a lawyer gets in something he knows will be objected to and removed. The judge tells the jury to "disregard" the statement, but they already heard it. So, regardless of the fact that there is no proof, everyone heard it.


Again, you don't believe me, but you should. Here's the video I was talking about, reuploaded:






Now there's a proof which you were so sure there wasn't. Now try to defend the Berkut who shot him.



Batko10 said:


> Be that as it may, how come no response to my answer to your "Pussy Riot" post??? That's a typical western tactic-don't respond if your argument is weak. Just jump to another subject to deflect attention from the first argument.


This is a typical Eastern tactic - make accusations before knowing any facts. I clicked on this page, went out, came back, started typing that post below yours and only when I clicked 'post' button, I saw your post about Pussy Riot. I couldn't see it before, so I couldn't possibly reply to you.



Batko10 said:


> *Tomas, they were imprisoned for entering a Russian Orthodox Church in Moscow, desecrating the altar, disrupting the church, and performing an obscene song inside the church*.
> 
> Whether or not you are an atheist and don't like the Church, especially the Russian Orthodox Church, is irrelevant. If they went into a church, synagogue, mosque, or other religious institution in the United States or Western Europe and pulled this stunt they would have most certainly been arrested. In the U.S. they most likely would have also been charged with federal hate crime statutes.
> 
> ...


Still, the main reason for their imprisonment was their anti-Putin views. I don't agree with what they did at the church though. *Putin will teach you to love the Motherland.* I see he taught you pretty well.



Batko10 said:


> Let's see how long it takes before the insurgents restart their uprising.
> 
> Смерть західних українських повстанців


They want Yanukovich resign now, they don't want to wait. The fact is, they won't stop the uprising and clashes will continue. I hope less deadly from now on.


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## Arcturus (Jan 23, 2014)

..Wrong thread.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> Again, you don't believe me, but you should. Here's the video I was talking about, reuploaded:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For Christ's sake, give me a break.fpalm The cop shot him in the leg with a rubber bullet. Tell him to go put ice on the black and blue mark when he gets home!:|

You're picking at every straw to blame the police and the goverment when it is pretty obvious that this is not a protest or a demonstration. Any impartial bystanded would call it what it is - an insurrection. 

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> For Christ's sake, give me a break.fpalm The cop shot him in the leg with a rubber bullet. Tell him to go put ice on the black and blue mark when he gets home!:|
> 
> You're picking at every straw to blame the police and the goverment when it is pretty obvious that this is not a protest or a demonstration. Any impartial bystanded would call it what it is - an insurrection.
> 
> - Mike


Rubber bullet or not, he had his hands raised and they still shot at him. It's a fact. The police is making fun of people is a fact and you can't deny it. It was just proven in this video.

Mike, I'm not asking anything more from you, than just to admit, that the police in those riots is behaving just as badly as the rioters. Nothing else. Admit it, that there is no lesser of two evils there and there is certainly no good there as well.


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> For Christ's sake, give me a break.fpalm The cop shot him in the leg with a rubber bullet. Tell him to go put ice on the black and blue mark when he gets home!:|
> 
> You're picking at every straw to blame the police and the goverment when it is pretty obvious that this is not a protest or a demonstration. Any impartial bystanded would call it what it is - an insurrection.
> 
> - Mike


It's a medic who had his hands raised. It's not justifiable to even throw a stone at him.




Batko10 said:


> Be that as it may, how come no response to my answer to your "Pussy Riot" post??? *That's a typical western tactic*-don't respond if your argument is weak. Just jump to another subject to deflect attention from the first argument.


fpalm

I really don't have anything else I can say to that. Just a fpalm


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

At this point the words "propaganda" and "pro-(blank) slant" have been thrown around so much that they don't even sound like real words

Its like how if you say "fuck" ten million times it stops being offensive


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## GothicBohemian (May 26, 2012)

I’m not engaging in “western-tactics”, if anyone gets that impression. I'm simply not interested in getting into a circular argument about semantics and political views. Just dropping back in to read the (hopefully positive) developments. 



Al Borland said:


> Brand new VICE doco on Ukraine


Curious folks should take a look at this; it’s fairly informative for those of us watching from outside the region.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Allur said:


> It's a medic who had his hands raised. It's not justifiable to even throw a stone at him.


This is true. How can anyone justify it is beyond me.


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## Morrison17 (Feb 16, 2013)

Bunch of eastern Ukraine rebels are just walking the streets robbing and beating the citizens in my hometown. 
My college was attacked, the statue of Lenin in my city was destroyed, that same rebels put a public bus on fire just because they wanted to. People cant buy patrol or recieve their money from bank. 

If any of you think that so called revolution is any good or have a purpose for the country you are mistaken. They are destroying the country. 

Смерть Юлі Тімошенко, Олегу Тягнибоку та західноукраїнським повстанцям.


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## Spanish Lariato (Jul 26, 2011)

Morrison17 said:


> Bunch of eastern Ukraine rebels are just walking the streets robbing and beating the citizens in my hometown.
> My college was attacked, the statue of Lenin in my city was destroyed, that same rebels put a public bus on fire just because they wanted to. People cant buy patrol or recieve their money from bank.
> 
> If any of you think that so called revolution is any good or have a purpose for the country you are mistaken. They are destroying the country.
> ...


Thank you for posting your experience. In Western Europe the mass media only shows those criminals view. They are congratulating and promoting activities that in any of the NATO countries would be marked as terrorism. If this happens in France or Germany they will put a curfew, declare an state of exceptions and the demostrators would be shot dead and prosecuted. 
Keep it strong brother.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> It's a medic who had his hands raised. It's not justifiable to even throw a stone at him.


Is the guy, in fact, a medic? I couldn't make out any of the conversations from the video. I didn't see any markings on him to indicate that he is a medic. I didn't see anyone in the video who needed medical attention.

What I did see in the video was this alleged medic being filmed by another guy behind him. The video was close cropped so that we can't see what else is going on around them. Why is he confronting armed police? There is no injured person in the area for him to aid if he is a medic. If he is not an insurgent why didn't he just leave the area as it appeared the police were ordering him to do?? It appears that he may be baiting the police and then took a rubber bullet in the leg.

Seriously, if a Finnish police officer in *peaceful* Helsinki tells you to move on are you going to argue with him? What do you think is going to happen to you in a riot zone if there was an insurrection going on in Helsinki?? 

*The video does prove that the police were using rubber bullets at that point. * If the guy was hit in the lower leg with a 7.62x39 round he would not have even realized he was hit and his leg would have dropped out from under him and he would have fallen like a sack of potatoes.

Смерть західним українським повстанцім

Смерть западным украйнским повстанцам


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Morrison17 said:


> Bunch of eastern Ukraine rebels are just walking the streets robbing and beating the citizens in my hometown.
> My college was attacked, the statue of Lenin in my city was destroyed, that same rebels put a public bus on fire just because they wanted to. People cant buy patrol or recieve their money from bank.
> 
> If any of you think that so called revolution is any good or have a purpose for the country you are mistaken. They are destroying the country.
> ...


*Совершенно верно! (Y)
*
Смерть західним українським повстанцім

Смерть западным украйнским повстанцам


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Spanish Lariato said:


> Thank you for posting your experience. In Western Europe the mass media only shows those criminals view. They are congratulating and promoting activities that in any of the NATO countries would be marked as terrorism. If this happens in France or Germany they will put a curfew, declare an state of exceptions and the demostrators would be shot dead and prosecuted.
> Keep it strong brother.


*Well said!* (Y)

Смерть західним українським повстанцім

Смерть западным украйнским повстанцам


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## elhijodelbodallas (Jan 30, 2014)

This thread reminds of why it was possible for Nazi Germany to become as big as it did. Ignorance rules above all and some people will make any excuse to avoid being proven wrong.


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)




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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Al Borland said:


>


Not sure what this is supposed to mean, but looks pretty cool.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Is the guy, in fact, a medic? I couldn't make out any of the conversations from the video. I didn't see any markings on him to indicate that he is a medic. I didn't see anyone in the video who needed medical attention.
> 
> What I did see in the video was this alleged medic being filmed by another guy behind him. The video was close cropped so that we can't see what else is going on around them. Why is he confronting armed police? There is no injured person in the area for him to aid if he is a medic. If he is not an insurgent why didn't he just leave the area as it appeared the police were ordering him to do?? It appears that he may be baiting the police and then took a rubber bullet in the leg.


Not much dialog in the video really. In the beginning one of the guys who was filming this or was around said "don't shoot, damn it!" and then someone said "help, Berkut (is here)" right after which one of the Berkut said "go fuck yourself". Then someone said "this is not at all ___" I didn't hear the last word. Then as one person was trying to say something to them, policeman yelled "shut up!".

Here's a graphic video of what is happening after a clash:


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Here is an interesting photo that recently went viral, showing Maidan Nezalezhnosti before and after riots: (right click and open image in new tab to see it whole)



Spoiler: screen stretching


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Another before/after



















"I came here for freedom & to preach & I'm all out of preach"


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> Is the guy, in fact, a medic? I couldn't make out any of the conversations from the video. I didn't see any markings on him to indicate that he is a medic. I didn't see anyone in the video who needed medical attention.
> 
> What I did see in the video was this alleged medic being filmed by another guy behind him. The video was close cropped so that we can't see what else is going on around them. Why is he confronting armed police? There is no injured person in the area for him to aid if he is a medic. If he is not an insurgent why didn't he just leave the area as it appeared the police were ordering him to do?? It appears that he may be baiting the police and then took a rubber bullet in the leg.
> 
> ...


Of course it's possible that some western tactics are being used and he's indeed not a medic, but I'm going by the fact that he's yelling that he's a medic, and showing them paperworks with the red cross symbol (in the lower video). If he's doing that, are the berkut officials just allowed to presume he's a fake and shoot him, even with rubber bullets? The Geneva Conventions agreements say no.

Here's a longer video of the shooting. I, of course, can't speak the language (that doesn't make me a western russophobe) and can't tell what they're speaking in the video, but I presume you or Thomas are glad to translate. You can see the red cross papers at about 0:18.







As for the police telling me to move in Helsinki, of course I'll move if they have a reason to tell me to. If they don't, I'll stay. I don't see how that's relevant to the topic, but w/e.


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## Café de René (Sep 27, 2011)

Not saying everything is bright in eastern Europe, but the anti-russian campaign in western medias is disgusting to say the least, especially in my country France. Not only are they absolutely partial and one-sided with the EU, but they're pretty much insulting everything that's russian related. To have different views on politics is one thing, to spit over an entire country is another. If there are any russian out there, I hope you understand that the elites and the medias aren't the people. We're sick and tired of being dictated who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Café de René said:


> Not saying everything is bright in eastern Europe, but the anti-russian campaign in western medias is disgusting to say the least, especially in my country France. Not only are they absolutely partial and one-sided with the EU, but they're pretty much insulting everything that's russian related. To have different views on politics is one thing, to spit over an entire country is another. If there are any russian out there, I hope you understand that the elites and the medias aren't the people. We're sick and tired of being dictated who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.


What's your opinion of Marine Le Pen?


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## GothicBohemian (May 26, 2012)

Café de René said:


> Not saying everything is bright in eastern Europe, but the anti-russian campaign in western medias is disgusting to say the least, especially in my country France. Not only are they absolutely partial and one-sided with the EU, but they're pretty much insulting everything that's russian related. To have different views on politics is one thing, to spit over an entire country is another. If there are any russian out there, I hope you understand that the elites and the medias aren't the people. We're sick and tired of being dictated who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.


That’s why, if you really care enough to understand a situation, it’s important to seek out alternative news reports from various viewpoints. Everyone has a bias; east and west, liberal and conservative, those who are present at the scene and those who are not. No one source can give an accurate picture because we all paint what we see from an individual perspective based on what matters most to us.


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## Café de René (Sep 27, 2011)

Al Borland said:


> What's your opinion of Marine Le Pen?


Mixed feelings. She's spot on on some issues and completely unreasonable on others. For instance she's the only major politician in France that is not jumping on the anti-Russia bandwagon.

The thing is, the regular French right wing is a complete joke ever since Chirac's second run as president, so at the end of the day if you don't want to support people that will have the same stance as the socialists on most subjects, you end up supporting Marine Le Pen.



GothicBohemian said:


> That’s why, if you really care enough to understand a situation, it’s important to seek out alternative news reports from various viewpoints. Everyone has a bias; east and west, liberal and conservative, those who are present at the scene and those who are not. No one source can give an accurate picture because we all paint what we see from an individual perspective based on what matters most to us.


Agreed.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

GothicBohemian said:


> That’s why, if you really care enough to understand a situation, it’s important to seek out alternative news reports from various viewpoints. Everyone has a bias; east and west, liberal and conservative, those who are present at the scene and those who are not. No one source can give an accurate picture because we all paint what we see from an individual perspective based on what matters most to us.


Absolutely! Unfortunately, most people on this forum depend on the western news reports that are taken from the Ukrainian insurgent point of view which fits in with the U.S./NATO agenda for Ukraine.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Café de René said:


> Not saying everything is bright in eastern Europe, but the anti-russian campaign in western medias is disgusting to say the least, especially in my country France. Not only are they absolutely partial and one-sided with the EU, but they're pretty much insulting everything that's russian related. To have different views on politics is one thing, to spit over an entire country is another. If there are any russian out there, I hope you understand that the elites and the medias aren't the people. We're sick and tired of being dictated who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.


:clap


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Al Borland said:


> "I came here for freedom & to preach & I'm all out of preach"


Here is another perfect example of western propaganda. The caption to the photo would imply that the Russian Orthodox priest in the photo has joined the insurgency. In fact, he has a gas mask and shield for protection from stray rocks and bricks thrown by the rioters. *He is carrying a Russian Orthodox cross, not a weapon, and is probably out there trying to comfort the injured - both police as well as insurgents.
*
The attempt to portray a member of the Russian Orthodox clergy as a rebel fighter demonstrates how low the west (and some members of this forum) will sink to spread their propaganda. The Russian Orthodox Church has been trying to prevent bloodshed from the very beginning of this insurrection. *Orthodox priests have put themselves between the insurgents and police to prevent clashes.* 

*Shame on you for posting this lie!*

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Here is another perfect example of western propaganda. The caption to the photo would imply that the Russian Orthodox priest in the photo has joined the insurgency. In fact, he has a gas mask and shield for protection from stray rocks and bricks thrown by the rioters. *He is carrying a Russian Orthodox cross, not a weapon, and is probably out there trying to comfort the injured - both police as well as insurgents.
> *
> The attempt to portray a member of the Russian Orthodox clergy as a rebel fighter demonstrates how low the west (and some members of this forum) will sink to spread their propaganda. The Russian Orthodox Church has been trying to prevent bloodshed from the very beginning of this insurrection. *Orthodox priests have put themselves between the insurgents and police to prevent clashes.*
> 
> ...


Now you start sounding paranoid. You're yelling 'Russophobic propaganda!' at almost everything that is being posted here.



Allur said:


> Of course it's possible that some western tactics are being used and he's indeed not a medic, but I'm going by the fact that he's yelling that he's a medic, and showing them paperworks with the red cross symbol (in the lower video). If he's doing that, are the berkut officials just allowed to presume he's a fake and shoot him, even with rubber bullets? The Geneva Conventions agreements say no.
> 
> Here's a longer video of the shooting. I, of course, can't speak the language (that doesn't make me a western russophobe) and can't tell what they're speaking in the video, but I presume you or Thomas are glad to translate. You can see the red cross papers at about 0:18.
> 
> ...


I can translate that. At first they are telling the police that they are from press. Then this one man is trying to prove that he is a medic. Then cameraman said "this is too much, let's go". Closer the the end the cameraman asks him what happened there and he tells him that either "the guy died" or "they got the guy". The words he said could mean both. Also, I want to add, that the only people who broke the rules of Geneva Convention during the World War II were Hitler's troops.



elhijodelbodallas said:


> This thread reminds of why it was possible for Nazi Germany to become as big as it did. Ignorance rules above all and some people will make any excuse to avoid being proven wrong.


True. True.

Also, Batko, why didn't you respond to this post:



TomasThunder619 said:


> Mike, I'm not asking anything more from you, than just to admit, that the police in those riots is behaving just as badly as the rioters. Nothing else. Admit it, that there is no lesser of two evils there and there is certainly no good there as well.


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## Spanish Lariato (Jul 26, 2011)

¿Where was all this big ass media coverage in the Hamburg mobilization, the Gamonal resistance or the London riots?


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Batko10 said:


> *Shame on you for posting this lie!*
> 
> - Mike


Relax man :lol :lol Take your shit to Stormfront or something if you're that serious


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Al Borland said:


> Relax man :lol :lol Take your shit to Stormfront or something if you're that serious


I thought that's a cool picture. He looks a little like The Undertaker to me.


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> I thought that's a cool picture. He looks a little like The Undertaker to me.


Yup quite a few iconic photo's doing the rounds, I suspect the one of the burnt independence column will be the most remembered


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> Now you start sounding paranoid. You're yelling 'Russophobic propaganda!' at almost everything that is being posted here.


I'm calling a spade a spade. The caption to the photo of the Russian Orthodox priest definitely more than implied that he had joined the insurgency. How did you interpret it?





TomasThunder619 said:


> Also, Batko, why didn't you respond to this post:
> Originally Posted by TomasThunder619 View Post
> Mike, I'm not asking anything more from you, than just to admit, that the police in those riots is behaving just as badly as the rioters. Nothing else. Admit it, that there is no lesser of two evils there and there is certainly no good there as well.


*The police are responding to a situation that the insurgents created *by their riots and attempt to overthrow the government. Mass attacks at police lines, tossing molotov cocktails at the police, sniping and throwing bricks and stones from the rooftops at police are going to illicit a reaction. 

I would not doubt that as the insurgents' revolution heated up there have been individual acts of force by certain officers that were excessive. However, the general policy, especially in the beginning was one of containing the rioters. *After the insurgents broke the truce last Tuesday, stormed the police lines and murdered over a dozen poice officers the gloves came off.

*Seriously, do you think that these police officers want to be out there in the middle of a riot? *They have wives and children, too.* And, they want to go home to them at the end of the day. Unfortunately, western propaganda paints them as faceless "Star Wars" storm troopers.

No, Tomas. *You can twist it around any way that you like, but the insurgents are the ones who created this situation and are the evil.* The police are stuck in the middle and just want to get home to their families.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Al Borland said:


> Relax man :lol :lol Take your shit to Stormfront or something if you're that serious


So, you don't take this situation seriously?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> I thought that's a cool picture. He looks a little like The Undertaker to me.


The picture may be cool and the priest does resemble Taker. However, it's the caption that implies that he has joined the insurgency that I am referring to.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Now let me get a little philosophical here. So, everyone in the world views everything as a fight between good versus evil. OK, that's understandable. Russia says the rioters (protesters, whatever) are evil and police is good, Western media says that rioters are good and police is evil. But what if it's not all that easy? What if it's all much more complicated? What if there's no good and no evil? What if the rioters are actually evil, but are doing good things, but those good things are still worse than what police is doing? And what if the police is actually good and doing bad things, but those bad things are still better than what rioters are doing? I know this may sound strange, but just what if it's all much more complicated than we think it is? Terms 'good' and 'evil' are subjective. But what if they mean completely different things than we think they do?


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> The picture may be cool and the priest does resemble Taker. However, it's the caption that implies that he has joined the insurgency that I am referring to.


I thought the caption was a joke.


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## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

The shit happening in Ukraine and Venezuela is depressing, especially in Venezuela because I pray Karla moves out of that country. 



> Bunch of eastern Ukraine rebels are just walking the streets robbing and beating the citizens in my hometown.
> My college was attacked, the statue of Lenin in my city was destroyed, that same rebels put a public bus on fire just because they wanted to. People cant buy patrol or recieve their money from bank.
> 
> If any of you think that so called revolution is any good or have a purpose for the country you are mistaken. They are destroying the country.
> ...


fpalm ugh


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> I thought the caption was a joke.


Tomas, you and I disagree on the responsibility of the insurgents and the police. However, I think that we both agree that this situation is not a joking matter and has to be resolved soon. 

If the caption was a joke, then it was in bad taste and made at the wrong time in the wrong place. If it was serious, then it was a provocation that could do nothing but create more animosity and tension.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> Now let me get a little philosophical here. So, everyone in the world views everything as a fight between good versus evil. OK, that's understandable. Russia says the rioters (protesters, whatever) are evil and police is good, Western media says that rioters are good and police is evil. But what if it's not all that easy? What if it's all much more complicated? What if there's no good and no evil? What if the rioters are actually evil, but are doing good things, but those good things are still worse than what police is doing? And what if the police is actually good and doing bad things, but those bad things are still better than what rioters are doing? I know this may sound strange, but just what if it's all much more complicated than we think it is? Terms 'good' and 'evil' are subjective. But what if they mean completely different things than we think they do?


Tomas, you should pose that question to the insurgents and the police. They would both be so perplexed trying to figure it out that the fighting would stop!


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## GothicBohemian (May 26, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> Absolutely! Unfortunately, most people on this forum depend on the western news reports that are taken from the Ukrainian insurgent point of view which fits in with the U.S./NATO agenda for Ukraine.


You are right about that, but it’s not only western bias that’s at play. I’m getting the impression from you, and others*, that you think most, perhaps all, the propaganda is one-sided. It isn’t. Western nations are no more homogeneous, self-important entities than their counterparts in other areas. Russian press is no less slanted toward their own position than American media, for example. 

Creating good versus evil division in chaotic situations, where there isn’t a unified voice but more a coming together of different factions all pushing their own agendas, isn’t something I’m comfortable with. That doesn’t fit my worldview – my prejudice, you can call it – where there are no clear cut rights and wrongs in anything. There are, however, things people shouldn’t do and, among those, are attacking bystanders who aren’t caught up in one’s own rebellious fervor or using undo force out of frustration. 

As far as Ukraine goes, I don't see either as a blameless, heroic side, though, like most people, I find it easier to sympathize with the ordinary citizen frustrated with politicians who aren't doing what was expected of them. I'm not saying they are right, but it's much a case of change a few factors and they could just as easily be me, my friends and my family. And I say this as someone not clueless about military and security forces; I dated a Canadian military officer so I do realize that those charged with keeping the government-mandated peace are no less human or compassionate than their civilian peers. I do, however, hold them to a higher standard of conduct because the security of those civilians is their job. 





*(including the one who wrote, as a subscript to his post, what looks like he’s wishing death on certain political individuals and groups – hopefully somewhat garbled in translation, but if not I do understand his emotional reaction)


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Watching Yulia Tymoschenko live now.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

So is this it? Yulia Tymoschenko is free, Yanukovich resigned, 2004 constitution brought back, Maidan is celebrating their victory. Will they stop? Will there be no more victims?


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## TheJack (Mar 13, 2006)

Batko10 said:


> I'm calling a spade a spade. The caption to the photo of the Russian Orthodox priest definitely more than implied that he had joined the insurgency. How did you interpret it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why do they shoot to kill and not to immobilise? 
The snipers who cleary shoot in the heart or the head to kill are evil. Nobody would say anything about a police officer who defended himself against a wild mob. But cleary, those snipers were never in any danger or they could never shoot that well. It doesnt matter who started it, murder is evil.
Also its really stupid to kill protestors like that because than they become martyrs and only spawn more protest.


And no, western propaganda didnt manipulate me. I think that Ukraine should go into that Russian Union, because it would be better for the Ukraine economically. I dont fear Russia, because I know that, unlike the Soviet Union, they are more interested in money then world domination and the death of the west. 
I live in Germany and the only thing I fear from Russia are high gas prices.


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## Hamada (Aug 17, 2008)

The fact that some news outlets are talking about Ukraine roughly splitting in half along the Dniper river is worrying. Because partitioning a country works so well.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*Ukraine's Southeast seeks to restore constitutional order, thousands gather in Kharkov aiming to create an alternative government:*
*http://rt.com/news/thousands-gather-eastern-ukraine-252/*



*East Ukraine leaders: regions should take control*

Posted: Feb 22, 2014 4:15 AM CST 
Updated: Feb 22, 2014 6:18 AM CST 

KHARKIV, Ukraine (AP) - Regional lawmakers in Ukraine's pro-Russian east are questioning the authority of the national parliament, amid concerns that the nation may be splitting in two.

A gathering of governors, provincial officials and legislators in Kharkiv approved a statement Saturday calling on regional authorities to take full responsibility for constitutional order on their territory.

Some called for forming volunteer units to protect against force by protesters from pro-European western regions. The assembly urged the army units deployed on their territories to maintain neutrality and protect ammunition depots.

Copyright 2014 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

For the time being these are the winners - in Kiev and Western Ukraine, at least. Let's see how "humane" your views are when they start executing people. Or, will it be OK since these Western Ukrainians fit in with the U.S./E.U./NATO agenda??? 

'I'll be fighting Jews and Russians till I die' - Aleksandr Muzychko








[/URL][/IMG]

21.02.2014: Kalashnikov-wielding members of Ukraine's radical nationalist opposition group, Right Sector, have pledged to resort to arms in their fight against those involved in "lawlessness" and looting, saying *they will shoot to restore "order and discipline*."

"I warn you, if anyone in this town, this area, engages in 'lawlessness' and looting, *Right Sector squads will shoot the bastards on the spot*. Then there will be order and discipline," one of the radical nationalist opposition group leaders, Aleksandr Muzychko, said on Friday. 

On February 21, when Berkut police officers arrived in the western Ukrainian town of Rovno from Kiev, Muzychko said that if he met them on a battlefield, his hand "would not tremble." 

"*I would shoot*," the Right Sector leader declared in Rovno, where his supporters have already equipped themselves with Kalashnikov rifles. 

"If tomorrow these bastards [police] in Kiev won't stop, we'll take over military units, get hold of armored personnel carriers and tanks - we know how to operate them - and go to Kiev. Victory will be ours," Muzychko warned earlier this week.


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## Oakue (Jul 16, 2012)

A civil war with a side backed in covert ops by the US and EU vs a side backed in covert ops by Russia with innocent people stuck in the middle of their geopolitical games is just about the last thing the planet needs.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> 21.02.2014: Kalashnikov-wielding members of Ukraine's radical nationalist opposition group, Right Sector, have pledged to resort to arms in their fight against those involved in "lawlessness" and looting, saying *they will shoot to restore "order and discipline*."


Obviously, this is taken from RT. So let me get this straight: you're against Kalashnikov-wielding opposition group with Molotov cocktails, but you are for Kalashnikov-wielding police, also equipped with grenades and sniper rifles?


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## Morrison17 (Feb 16, 2013)

> Will they stop? Will there be no more victims?


I doubt so. Especially in Kiev. It's like a cancer.


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## Morrison17 (Feb 16, 2013)

Western ukrainians are modern day Nazis. I'm worried about my country now.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> Obviously, this is taken from RT. So let me get this straight: you're against Kalashnikov-wielding opposition group with Molotov cocktails, but you are for Kalashnikov-wielding police, also equipped with grenades and sniper rifles?


So let me get this straight, you're against police officers trying to keep order and stop riots, but you are for anti-semetic, Russian hating Western Ukrainian neo-Nazi insurgents who won't rest until every last Jew and Russian is dead???

Yes, the article was from Saturday's RT. *So what??? * They didn't print any lies. They reported on what happened. They reported the *TRUTH* that the BBC, UPI, and other western media sources persistently omit because it doesn't fit in with their agenda.

Let's see how many excuses and how much circular reasoning you start using to justify the crimes of the insurgents now in control of the government as time goes on and reports start coming in of their excesses. Oh, wait. Since most of those crimes are going to be reported by non-western media sources I guess they won't count. Sorry!

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

This is how the democracy that the West supports is shaping up:

The insurgents take over the capital city and government of Kiev by force.

30 members of the Party of Regions (Yanukovich’s Party) are *coerced into leaving the Party by threats against their families*. Some are beaten. This gives the insurgents a majority in the Supreme Rada (Parliament).

This “majority” is used to impeach the elected President of Ukraine, Victor Yanukovich. 

The President is forced to leave the capital under threats of assassination.

With its new non-elected “majority” Parliament began its work in earnest:

- *Parliament has introduced a bill to outlaw the Party of Regions and the Communist Party.* (The Western Ukrainian neo-Nazis don’t waste any time!)

- Parliament has nullified a Yanukovich-era law, which gave legal grounds for regional use of minority languages. The 2012 law allowed predominantly Russian-speaking regions of Ukraine to use Russian in official business, education and some other areas. *The new authorities in Kiev have strong nationalistic leanings and view the Russian language as hostile towards Ukrainian national identity.
* 
- Parliament has given itself the authority to appoint and sack judges. It also fired the head of Ukraine’s High Administrative Court, Igor Temkizhev.

- Parliament has voted on the firing of their head of the foreign ministry, Leonid Kozhara. A total of 237 MPs were in favor, RIA Novosti reports.

- Parliament has appointed its speaker, Aleksandr Turchinov, acting president of the country.

Outside of Parliament the new order has re-started its religious persecutions which were halted after the Yushchenko government was voted out in 2010. 

Armed protesters surrounded the Kiev-Pechersk Lavra on Saturday, also known as the Kiev Monastery of the Caves, a historic Orthodox Christian monastery under ecclesiastic leadership from the Moscow Patriarchate. 

Around 70 armed militants reportedly surrounded the church establishing patrols that made sure no one enters the premises. *The militants demanded that the church be under direct control of the Kiev Patriarchate, i.e. a schismatic group that has no standing in world Orthodoxy. 
*


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*ARMED INSURGENTS SURROUND ORTHODOX MONASTERY IN KIEV*

Vasili Anisimov, the head of the *UOC/MP press service*, told *Interfax-Religion* that, on Saturday night, armed men surrounded the Kievo-Pecherskaya Lavra and demanded its immediate transfer to the self-proclaimed schismatical uncanonical “Kiev Patriarchate“. 

He said, “According to our information, about 70 armed militants put up guard posts around the Lavra, went inside, let no one in or out, and said that the Rada will transfer the monastery to the so-called ‘Kiev Patriarchate’ in the near future”. He added that, according to some reports, there might be as many as 300 armed radicals outside the Lavra. 

He said, “There’s much ferment amongst the activists. *The monks are trying to negotiate with them, but I just received information that they plan to capture the Lavra with an armed mob”*.

23 February 2014


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> So let me get this straight, you're against police officers trying to keep order and stop riots, but you are for anti-semetic, Russian hating Western Ukrainian neo-Nazi insurgents who won't rest until every last Jew and Russian is dead???


You're just reversing my question. What's wrong? Don't want to answer my question, so you're reversing it?



Batko10 said:


> Yes, the article was from Saturday's RT. *So what??? * They didn't print any lies. They reported on what happened. They reported the *TRUTH* that the BBC, UPI, and other western media sources persistently omit because it doesn't fit in with their agenda.


Yes, they reported the truth, but only one half of it. As they always do. So does the Western media.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> *ARMED INSURGENTS SURROUND ORTHODOX MONASTERY IN KIEV*
> 
> Vasili Anisimov, the head of the *UOC/MP press service*, told *Interfax-Religion* that, on Saturday night, armed men surrounded the Kievo-Pecherskaya Lavra and demanded its immediate transfer to the self-proclaimed schismatical uncanonical “Kiev Patriarchate“.
> 
> ...


Any proof? I googled it and there are only three links, all from the same (pro-Russian) source.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> You're just reversing my question. What's wrong? Don't want to answer my question, so you're reversing it?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, they reported the truth, but only one half of it. As they always do. So does the Western media.


Yes, I reversed your question because aside from being circular reasoning, it is ridiculous. Of course I supported the police. They were the ones trying to restore order. They were the ones that were attacked with molotov cocktails, firearms, and other weapons by the very people who are now declaring they are out to "fight every last Jew and Russian until they die."

What is the other half of the truth that RT didn't report in that article??? The leader of Right Front got up there and said what he said. What is the other half??? 

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> Any proof? I googled it and there are only three links, all from the same (pro-Russian) source.


This is precisely the point - the western media is *NOT* going to report on things like this until it gets to the point where they can't ignore it anymore and cover it up. 

They don't want anyone to know what kind of neo-fascist bigots the West supports and hails as "freedom fighters." If the Western Ukrainians start dragging the Orthodox monks out and beating or shooting them, then you will see a couple of lines in the Western media hidden on page 100.

Similary, the western media is not making any loud noises about the draconian legislation being passed and considered in the Supreme Rada - banning of political parties, suppression of minority languages, illegally sacking judges, etc. There might be a mention somewhere, but they are not going to advertise the anti-democratic nature of the new regime as long as it plays into the US/EU/NATO agenda.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> This is precisely the point - the western media is *NOT* going to report on things like this until it gets to the point where they can't ignore it anymore and cover it up.
> 
> They don't want anyone to know what kind of neo-fascist bigots the West supports and hails as "freedom fighters." If the Western Ukrainians start dragging the Orthodox monks out and beating or shooting them, then you will see a couple of lines in the Western media hidden on page 100.
> 
> ...


Still, you got any proof? Any reliable source or something?


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## GothicBohemian (May 26, 2012)

Western media does acknowledge that the unrest hasn't been started by saints. CBC has mentioned the far right influence – let’s call them what they are, neo-nazi, even if most mainstream news organizations shy away from that exact term – though it certainly isn’t as emphasised as it should be. That is a mainstream western media company, albeit one from a country very rooted in NATO but not powerful enough to have much direct influence on the political situation. And since one of the following paragraphs credit the BBC, it look as if they have as well. I'm sure the same is true of most news outlets.

_“Oleg Tyagnibok, leader of the nationalist and far-right Svoboda or "Freedom" party, has also called for Yanukovych's resignation. Svoboda, Ukraine's fourth-largest party, rejects alliances with both Russia and the EU in favour of greater Ukrainian independence. Svoboda has been criticized as being both xenophobic and anti-Semitic — a charge that Tyagnibok denies.”_

_“The far-right, nationalist group dubbed the Right Sector, have deemed the current political crisis as an occasion to "destroy the state skeleton" in favour of a new order, according to the BBC. The group, composed largely of young men, rejects joining the EU but is also similarly against building close ties with Russia. Right Sector demonstrators often wear masks and helmets and have led some of the most violent confrontations with riot police in Kyiv's Independence Square.”
_
Both credit CBC.ca​
It comes across as an example of _he's a son of a bitch, but he's my son of a bitch_ allegiance thinking, which we have tons of examples of having worked out horribly in the past. Still though, I honestly believe that many, if not most, of those who joined the protests as they grew are not represented by these people, or any covert ties to east or west, but were only caught up in the fight for 'freedom' and political voice that they envisioned. What advantage the larger, outside players will take of this negative situation and the political mess likely to arise concerns me.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Ukraine crisis fuels secession calls in pro-Russian south

_Thousands attend a protest in the port city of Sevastapol on Ukraine's Crimean peninsula to declare allegiance to Russia_

Howard Amos in Sevastopol 
The Guardian, Sunday 23 February 2014 14.01 EST










As a new regime consolidated its grip over power in Kiev on Sunday, *calls for secession in the pro-Russian south of Ukraine were growing louder*.

At a protest attended by thousands in the port city of Sevastopol on Ukraine's Crimean peninsula, *the crowd voted to establish a parallel administration and civil defence squads*.

*Demonstrators waved Russian flags – there was not a Ukrainian flag to be seen – and chanted "Russia, Russia, Russia" during the gathering*.

"Sevastopol is a Russian town and will always be a Russian town… *we will never surrender to those fascists in Kiev*," said Anatoly, who was handing out Russian flags and declined to give his surname. "The struggle is only just beginning."

The largely Russian-speaking eastern and southern regions of Ukraine have been shaken by events in the Ukrainian capital over the last week that have led to the toppling of President Viktor Yanukovych.

Nowhere in the country is a Russian heritage stronger than in Crimea. *The peninsula was officially a part of Russia until 60 years ago when the Soviet leadership transferred it to Ukraine*.

Even today the Kremlin retains significant influence in the popular holiday destination for wealthy Russians, and Moscow leases naval bases in Sevastopol for its Black Sea fleet.

"*We are not like the Kievans, we will not give up*," said Olga, a pensioner in the crowd on Sunday.

"*We hoped there wouldn't be a split in the country, but if a fully Bandera regime emerges in Kiev then we will be a part of Russia*," she added, using a controversial term for the opposition from the name of a nationalist leader who fought for the Nazis and against the Soviets during the Second World War.

Amid fears that the new leadership in Kiev will soon fire the local government, *demonstrators elected a new city leader, Aleksei Chaly, who vowed to defend Sevastopol*.

*Protesters also voted to set-up self-defence squads* – a fledgling militia that would mirror those established in pro-European Western Ukraine last week after Yanukovych's authority crumbled and locals ransacked police stations.

Speakers said that in a similar demonstration earlier in the day in the regional capital of Simferopol *about 5,000 had joined such squads*.

*The response was likely to be much greater in Sevastopol where up to 200,000 people could be counted on,* said Dmitry Sinichkin, president of the local branch of the Night Wolves motorbike group.

"Bloodshed is inevitable," added Sinichkin, who was dressed in black leather. The Night Wolves enjoy the patronage of Russian President Vladimir Putin and its leadership has close ties to the Russian Orthodox Church.

Speakers at the protest avoided direct calls for Russian intervention, but *when the head of the city's administration said that the secession of Crimea could not be permitted he was booed from the stage*.

Russian officials refrain from publicly stating their support for Crimean separatism, but Kremlin aide Sergei Glazyev described Ukraine last month as "schizophrenic" and said that Russia would support greater federalism.

In recent weeks local media have carried stories about intensive contact with Russian officials and Vladislav Surkov, the Kremlin's so-called "grey cardinal," was reportedly spotted in Crimea last week.

"Russia does not openly take part in encouraging separatism… but there are organisations which are financed through Kremlin structures," said Viktor Neganov, a local supporter of the uprising in Kiev who has just been appointed an adviser to the country's new interior minister.

Neganov suffered concussion and a bloody nose on Saturday when he was beaten by people greeting riot police returning from Kiev to Sevastopol in the wake of the fall of the Yanukovych government.

While Ukraine's riot police, or Berkut, are widely reviled by the opposition whose activists have battled them on the streets of Kiev for months, *they were treated to a hero's welcome in Sevastopol, given flowers and embraced by locals.
*
There have been pushes for Crimean separatism several times since the fall of the Soviet Union, including during Ukraine's 2004 Orange Revolution, but analysts said that more was now at stake.

"It's easy to imagine Crimea calling a referendum and getting special status within the Ukraine," said Masha Lipman, an expert at the Carnegie Centre in Moscow. "The natural next step would be to secede."

There was little sympathy in Sevastopol for Yanukovych, who has fled Kiev and been denounced by many of his closest followers. His current whereabouts is unknown.

"*I don't support Yanukovych because he has betrayed Ukraine," said Dmitry Kovalenko, 23, a student. "We need to unite with Russia*."


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Monument to soldiers who died liberating Ukraine from Nazis toppled 

Published time: February 23, 2014 14:28 
Edited time: February 24, 2014 13:43








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The ‘Soviet Soldier’ – a monument commemorating the collective sacrifice of the Soviet army against Nazi forces – has been toppled in western Ukraine. 

The taking down of the ‘Soviet Soldier’ in the town of Stryi, Lvov region, turns a new page in the chaos that gripped the nation in November, and *has taken on dangerously nationalist overtones in the past fortnight*. 

The city administration’s website first reported on the story of the monument, erected in 1965 as a companion piece to two other objects: an obelisk with WWII engravings and the Eternal Flame over the tomb of the Unknown Soldier. 

No official confirmation of any orders for its removal has been given.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

NEO-NAZI REGIME IN KIEV BEGINS ITS INITIAL PURGE - ARREST WARRANTS ISSUED FOR YANUKOVICH AND OTHERS IN HIS GOVERNMENT


*Yanukovich wanted over mass killings in Ukraine, whereabouts unknown

*Published time: February 24, 2014 08:47 
Edited time: February 24, 2014 10:28 

The new Ukrainian authorities have put missing President Yanukovich on the wanted list on suspicion of involvement in mass killings during the riots in Kiev. He was reportedly last seen at his residence in Crimea.

The arrest warrant was issued on Monday, acting Interior Minister Arsen Avakov announced on his Facebook page. 

He added that Yanukovich was last seen on Sunday night leaving his security detail a private resort in Crimea in southern Ukraine. 

In addition to Yanukovich, some other officials are now wanted in Ukraine, Avakov said, but did not name them.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

SOUTH & EAST UKRAINE RISING UP AGAINST FASCIST COUP IN KIEV













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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

REMOVED ACCIDENTAL DOUBLE MESSAGE POSTED


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> [/URL][/IMG]


If I was using your judgement, I would ask why that dude is giving a nazi salute, if he's anti-nazi.


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## InTheAirTonight (Jan 1, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> Monument to soldiers who died liberating Ukraine from Nazis toppled
> 
> Published time: February 23, 2014 14:28
> Edited time: February 24, 2014 13:43
> ...


Yeah. Way to be grateful.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> If I was using your judgement, I would ask why that dude is giving a nazi salute, if he's anti-nazi.


The "dude" looks more like he is covering his eyes from the sun or waving. Living in the Baltics you should be very familiar with the Nazi salute and know the difference!

Look at the first 5 seconds of the video in the other post and you will see that he is waving, not saluting. 

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> The "dude" looks more like he is covering his eyes from the sun or waving. Living in the Baltics you should be very familiar with the Nazi salute and know the difference!
> 
> Look at the first 5 seconds of the video in the other post and you will see that he is waving, not saluting.
> 
> - Mike


Obviously.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

> Activists continued a fruitless search for the fugitive former president of Ukraine on Sunday, but those sifting through his sumptuous private home were uncovering in staggering detail the lavish expenditure of the man ousted after a popular revolution.
> Viktor Yanukovych has not been seen since border guards in his home town of Donetsk said they had blocked his plane from taking off on a technicality on Saturday evening.
> Hundreds of documents discovered floating in the Dnieper near the Mezhihirye residence that was occupied on Saturday have, however, provided evidence of a life of bribery and vanity spending.
> Mr Yanukovych’s official annual salary as president was about $100,000 (£60,00), but documents allegedly showed money transfers worth, in some cases, millions of dollars from unknown individuals to local bank accounts — cash transfers that are illegal in Ukraine.
> Mr Yanukovych’s 140-acre estate has become a public monument to greed, corruption and astoundingly poor taste. The estate boasts a five-storey mansion, a luxury car collection, a greenhouse full of banana plants and a personal zoo including ostriches and peacocks.


Read more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-palace-monument-to-greed-and-corruption.html

While his country was in debt and his people were in need, Yanukovich lived like a king.

He also was Russia's puppet. That's why the Russians are all for him.


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## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

EU would be furious with any attempts at secession. Without the east & the south Ukraine is worthless to them.

Those Pro-Russian rally clips aren't getting much press at all over here.

Worrying times for those caught in the crossfire.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> Read more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-palace-monument-to-greed-and-corruption.html
> 
> While his country was in debt and his people were in need, Yanukovich lived like a king.
> 
> He also was Russia's puppet. That's why the Russians are all for him.


And so did Yushchenko and Tymoshenko when they were in power from 2005 to 2010. They stole plenty and lined their pockets. This is simply the "pot calling the kettle black" and a lame excuse for the fascist coup that took place.

Yushchenko and Tymoshenko also supported the US/EU/NATO agenda and this is why the West is all for them.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> And so did Yushchenko and Tymoshenko when they were in power from 2005 to 2010. They stole plenty and lined their pockets. This is simply the "pot calling the kettle black" and a lame excuse for the fascist coup that took place.
> 
> Yushchenko and Tymoshenko also supported the US/EU/NATO agenda and this is why the West is all for them.
> 
> - Mike


You're completely right in this whole post. I can't help but agree. So the question is: who is good, if they all were lying and stealing?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> You're completely right in this whole post. I can't help but agree. So the question is: who is good, if they all were lying and stealing?


Based on that criteria there is noone that is any good. The unfortunate two decade history of the post-Soviet republics and the former Warsaw Bloc nations is one of thieving leaders who care more about their personal wealth than the welfare of their country and its citizens.

The only leader of a post-Soviet republic or Eastern European nation that was not out there lining his pockets for himself is *President Lukashenko of Belarus*. I don't want to get into an argument about this and you can criticize his leadership style and his political/economic beliefs all you want. However, as far as his personal honesty goes there is noone in the East or West that come close to him.

Alexander Grigoriyevich Lukashenko is a man who stands by his personal convictions no matter what anyone says. After the Soviet Union was illegally dissolved by Yeltsin (Russia), Kravchuk (Ukraine), and Shushkevich (Byelorussia) at the infamous meeting in Beloveshchskaya Pushcha, *Lukashenko was the only one in the Supreme Soviet of the Byelorussian SSR to stand up, denounce the illegal dissolution, and vote against it*. 

You may disagree with his stance on that issue, but you have to admire the man for taking a stand based on his convictions despite being pressured by every last one of his colleagues to go with the flow.

In fact, he was so admired for his honesty that his initial position in the post-Soviet government of Belarus was *Head of the Anti-Corruption Task Force*. And, there was plenty of corruption to deal with. While all the other politicians ignored the plight of the country and were running around lining their own pockets, Lukashenko and his task force were out there fighting that very corruption. 

He was virtually the only politician who was not only *not on the take*, but fighting to stop what had become an epidemic of corruption on all levels of government. The Byelorussian people took notice of this and made *Alexander Grigoriyevich Lukashenko the FIRST ELECTED PRESIDENT of post-Soviet Belarus in 1994.*

The West tried to buy him off a number of years ago with an offer of 15 million dollars and relocation to any western nation of his choice with protection for him and his family. He refused.

The West spreads lies about Lukashenko stealing money and having overseas bank accounts. *But, they can't find any accounts or any money*.

He has a nice (but *NOT* opulent) dacha (summer home), home in Minsk, and lives on his presidential salary. All of his income is made public according to Byelorussian law. Compared to just about every one of the other leaders of post-Soviet republics and Eastern European nations Lukashenko has an austere life style.

Unfortunately, this is not the case for the rest of them.

- Mike

"NO! I WILL NOT SELL BYELORUSSIA..."


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

‘Nothing to do with democracy’: New Ukraine regime makes swift and controversial steps


Published time: February 24, 2014 14:45 
Edited time: February 24, 2014 17:09 

Since the takeover in Kiev, Ukraine is currently undergoing a complete government overhaul as the opposition is trying hard to establishing its own order. *The swift and sometimes controversial steps raise doubts about how democratic the moves are.* 

The new Ukrainian authorities that assumed power just a few days ago, have taken the initiative with some decisive steps. 

*On Monday, the new power put missing President Yanukovich on the wanted list on suspicion of involvement in mass killings during the riots in Kiev*. On Saturday, Ukraine’s Verkhovna Rada voted for the resignation of Yanukovich, saying he “isn’t fulfilling his duties as a president.” 

The president, however, didn’t confirm his resignation, saying that the country is facing the threat of a return of Nazism, as over 500 regional offices of his Party of Regions have been torched by the radicals. 

*Meanwhile, scores of members of the now ex-ruling Party of Regions have been fired from their governmental positions in the latest measures against the old administration.* 

The parliament (Verkhovna Rada) has also voted to oust top figures of the Yanukovich government, including acting Foreign Minister Leonid Kozhara, acting Education Minister Dmitry Tabachnik and acting health minister Raisa Bogatyryova “due to systematic gross violations of the Constitution of Ukraine.” 

*Some of the ex-ruling party members were also put on the wanted list*. The new order is seeking the arrest of former Incomes Minister Aleksandr Klimenko and former Prosecutor General Viktor Pshonka, who have been trying to leave Ukraine. 

“A new regime is taking shape really quickly and with the use of strong measures,” Evgeny Kopatko, a sociologist, told RT. “*It has nothing to do with democracy *because those coming to power will go on with pursuing tough policies and they will conduct massive expansion of eastern territories.” 

*With the latest manhunt, dozens of pro-governmental delegates withdrew from the Ruling party, fearing reprisals as the arrests of the ministers were not over.* The names of some members of the ex-ruling parties, wanted for questioning, have reportedly been circulated to airports, while vehicles are also being searched on roads around the capital. 

Some of those who signed their resignations did so under duress, said Aleksandr Yefremov, deputy head of the Party of Regions on Monday. 

“*Those who resigned told me with tears in their eyes that they were forced to do it as huge pressure was put on them and their families,*” said Yefremov, 

*According to the politician, the sale of parliamentary positions has started in the new Ukrainian parliament*. 

“There are certain groups of MPs whose goal is to get a certain position. *The sums proposed are enormous*,” says Yefremov. 

*According to RT reports, some of the ministers with a different political (pro-Yanukovich) stance have even been physically attacked inside the Ukrainian Parliament* . One member of the Party of Regions was severely beaten in Kiev’s Independence Square, according to the Ukrayinska Pravda newspaper. The protesters were draconian, demanding him to “make a public recantation.” 

“Right now it's more about emotions rather than political rivalry,” Vladimir Fisenko, from the Center of Political Studies in Kiev told RT, “it's more important to prevent old parties from being banned completely because then the situation would lose all legitimacy.” 

However, it’s not just pro-government parties that have been affected as the “new broom” has swept out the staff of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. 

*All the judiciary is now in the hands of a new parliament, which has now given itself the authority to appoint and sack judges. 
*
On Monday, the Ukrainian parliament has voted to oust judges from the country’s constitutional court for violating their oath of office by allowing for the constitution to be amended in 2010. The upper house of the Ukrainian voted overwhelmingly in support of the measure. 

Earlier, the head of Ukraine’s High Administrative Court, Igor Temkizhev, was also sacked.

*All proposals made by the new authorities were swiftly passed.* Parliament immediately annulled a Yanukovich-era law, which gave legal grounds for regional use of minority languages, including Russian. The 2012 law allowed predominantly Russian-speaking regions of Ukraine to use Russian in official business, education and some other areas. 

Meanwhile, there were reports that a Russian correspondent, Artyom Kol of the Vesti news program has now been put on the wanted list. The radical Right Sector group is calling on their supporters to arrest him,* accusing of “besmearing the Ukrainian people*.” 

“*The situation in Kiev is controlled by radicals, who are pursuing a very militant agenda,*” Alexander Mercouris, legal expert and blogger told RT. “The opposition leaders [now: new authorities] are no longer in control of the crowds in Kiev.” 

The protesters were so overwhelmed with anti-government emotions that they even dismantled many monuments from the Soviet era, when Ukraine and Russia were one country - the USSR. *A famous monument called the ‘Soviet Soldier’ commemorating the collective sacrifice of the Soviet army against Nazi forces was toppled in western Ukraine on Sunday.* The incident followed the dismantling of some 25 statues of Vladimir Lenin, the leader of the 1917 revolution that paved way to the creation of the USSR. 

RT's Egor Piskunov reporting from Kiev says “*many are now raising the question, if this is really the type of democracy so many Ukranians put their lives on the line for*." 

In addition to all its problems, Ukraine is nearly bankrupt as its state treasury is empty, according to Arseny Yatsenyuk, leader of the Batkivshchina (Fatherland) Party, adding Ukraine is going to seek financial help from the International Monetary Fund. 

The crisis-torn country has had no prime minister since the resignation of Mikhail Azarov. Now the Ukraine’s acting President Aleksandr Turchinov has until Tuesday to cobble together a coalition cabinet and find a prime minister who will take up the challenge of keeping Ukraine from falling off the economic cliff, before an early presidential elections May 25.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Ukraine Parliament Sacks Constitutional Court Judges

KIEV, February 24 (RIA Novosti) – *Ukraine’s parliament on Monday sacked six judges it had previously appointed to the Constitutional Court*, saying that they had violated their oath in ruling against the country’s 2004 constitution.

The parliament asked prosecutors to begin a criminal investigation into the judges.

The Constitutional Court comprises 18 judges, appointed equally by the president, the parliament and the Congress of Judges.

*The parliament said that acting President Oleksandr Turchynov and the Congress of Judges should also dismiss the remaining judges.
*
In 2010, during ex-President Viktor Yanukovych’s term, the court overturned the 2004 constitution, which had been introduced under his predecessor, President Viktor Yushchenko, to limit presidential powers and shift authority to parliament.

The reinstatement of the 2004 constitution was a key demand of the anti-government protesters who rallied in Kiev for three months against Yanukovych.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*BREAKING NEWS IN UKRAINE / 2 HOURS AGO* 

EURONEWS.COM

Violence erupts in Ukraine as pro-Russian protesters clash with Kyiv supporters 


Pro-Russian demonstrators have clashed with anti-government protesters in Ukraine’s south and eastern regions.

*Several attempts by opposition supporters to hold rallies over this weekend’s historic events have been roundly shut down*.

In the poor industrial city of Donetsk, pro-Russian protesters made their feelings clear over their allegiances.

A scene repeated in several other cities like Kerch in Crimea where some Ukrainians have spoken openly of their desire to see the country split along political lines.

Copyright © 2014 euronews


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

BELARUS MARKS "DEFENDERS' OF THE FATHERLAND DAY"
_This was formerly "Soviet Army/Navy Day." After the dissolution of the USSR the holiday is still celebrated in most of the post-Soviet republics under the new name of "Defenders' Day_."








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*The President
of the Republic of Belarus

*The official Internet portal of the President of the Republic of Belarus


*Alexander Lukashenko extends Fatherland Defenders’ Day greetings*

*23 February 2014* 

*Greetings on the Day of Fatherland Defenders and the Armed Forces of the Republic of Belarus*

Dear compatriots,

Dear soldiers and veterans of the Armed Forces,

I cordially congratulate you on the Day of Fatherland Defenders and the Armed Forces of the Republic of Belarus.

This day has become a truly people’s holiday. It symbolizes continuity of patriotic traditions, courage and strength of spirit of soldiers who protect peace and security of the native land.

*This year we celebrate the 70th anniversary of Belarus’ liberation from Nazi invasion*. We are especially grateful to the veterans of the Great Patriotic War who defended our independence. Their feat is an example for new generations of Fatherland defenders.

Soldiers and officers of the Armed Forces honorably continue glorious traditions of liberators by safeguarding sovereignty and territorial integrity of the state.

I sincerely thank those who make a huge contribution to the enhancement of Belarus’ defense capacity.

I wish you health, peace, happiness and every success in your service for the benefit of the Fatherland.

Alexander Lukashenko

© 2014, The Press Service of the President of the Republic of Belarus








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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

BELARUS OLYMPIC TEAM RETURNS HOME


_The aircraft with the Belarusian athletes, the champions and prizewinners of the 22nd Olympic Winter Games in Sochi, landed at Minsk National Airport on 24 February.
The delegation that arrived on a special flight by the president’s aircraft included *Darya Domracheva*, a three-time Olympic biathlon champion, the Hero of Belarus; Olympic freestyle champions *Alla Tsuper *and *Anton Kushnir*; and bronze biathlon medalist *Nadezhda Skardino*._




25.02.2014 11:46


MINSK, 25 February (BelTA) – Olympic heroes are the pride and the biggest asset of the Belarusian people, Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko has said as he welcomed the Belarusian athletes who returned triumphant from the Sochi 2014 Olympics, BelTA has learnt.

The President underlined that Belarus earned international recognition due to the winners and medalists of the Winter Olympics in Sochi. “Millions of people, millions of Belarusians held their breath watching them at the Olympics. Those were unforgettable moments of patriotic uplift and unity of the nation. *The Olympic heroes are the pride and precious asset of any nation, including ours*,” the President said. 

“*The medals, five of which are gold, are an outstanding achievement*. Belarus has never seen anything like that before,” the head of state said. *Our country was in the top ten in the medal tally, leaving behind many traditional favorites.* “This made the entire world speak about Belarus, made a huge contribution to the improvement of the country’s image and prestige as a sports nation, a sports power,” Alexander Lukashenko said. 

The President emphasized that this success came from many years of hard work. The country made sport one of the major priorities of its social policy recognizing it as a great way to improve health and morale of the nation. 

© BelTA. A hyperlink to the main page of the website www.belta.by must be provided when materials of the website are used for electronic publications, website pages, electronic files or other electronic forms of use.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

I forgot to post this, but yesterday was Estonia's Independence Day. Congrats!


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## elhijodelbodallas (Jan 30, 2014)

For Batko10:










Russia is number 148 on the list and Belarus is even worse, 157 in 179 total countries. The first placed country is Finland and the last five countries are Somalia, Syria, Turkmenistan, North Korea and Eritrea.

There are still plenty of people who even in today's europe worship the dictators of the past, just as you worship Lukashenko. Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Franco, Ceausescu, Salazar, Pinochet in Chile, all of them still have plenty of supporters today that will argue and defend in favor of them against anyone. You're no different than them.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

elhijodelbodallas said:


> For Batko10:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is no surprise. And as I've always known, Scandinavia is the best place to live in the whole world.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Its looks like that map is from a western source

WESTERN PROPAGANDA!1212!!!1111!!!1112111










WILD WESTERN PROPAGANDA 

YEE-HAW PARTNER


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## Quasi Juice (Apr 3, 2006)

I like how Namibia is white on the map, props.



TomasThunder619 said:


> This is no surprise. And as I've always known, Scandinavia is the best place to live in the whole world.


Why? Netherlands and Germany are also white on that map. And don't tell me Finland is amazing because they are ranked number one because all I've heard from Finnish people and people who've been to Finland is that it's a depressing place.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Quasi Juice said:


> I like how Namibia is white on the map, props.
> 
> 
> 
> Why? Netherlands and Germany are also white on that map. And don't tell me Finland is amazing because they are ranked number one because all I've heard from Finnish people and people who've been to Finland is that it's a depressing place.


Depressing? Yes, I completely understand that. Winter, cold weather, sun shines rarely. I hate winter and cold weather. But on the other hand, Scandinavia produces such great music.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

elhijodelbodallas said:


> For Batko10:
> Russia is number 148 on the list and Belarus is even worse, 157 in 179 total countries. The first placed country is Finland and the last five countries are Somalia, Syria, Turkmenistan, North Korea and Eritrea.
> 
> There are still plenty of people who even in today's europe worship the dictators of the past, just as you worship Lukashenko. Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Franco, Ceausescu, Salazar, Pinochet in Chile, all of them still have plenty of supporters today that will argue and defend in favor of them against anyone. You're no different than them.


It's a waste of time arguing that your list was created by one of the countries in yellow and supports their agenda.
You already know that!

More importantly, it is the rich who own and control the newspapers, TV and radio stations, magazines, and other 
outlets of the mass media. The news is reported with ommissions, half-truths, and outright lies to support the
interests of the wealthy owners of the media. I guess there is a free press in the West - *free to lie, omit,
obfuscate, and distort as it sees fit.* 

I don't worship anyone. And, instead of parroting the Western media's anti-Lukashenko propaganda you might want to
take a trip to Belarus since you live in the UK which is not that far away. Why not go see for yourself??? 

- Mike


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## TheJack (Mar 13, 2006)

Batko10 said:


> It's a waste of time arguing that your list *was created by one of the countries in yellow and supports their agenda.*
> You already know that!
> 
> More importantly, it is the rich who own and control the newspapers, TV and radio stations, magazines, and other
> ...


And those sneaky bastards even made their country yellow instead of white tricking people of thinking its legit.

unk2


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> It's a waste of time arguing that your list was created by one of the countries in yellow and supports their agenda.
> You already know that!
> 
> More importantly, it is the rich who own and control the newspapers, TV and radio stations, magazines, and other
> ...


That's an unbiased site. It constantly criticizes the western countries such as the United States the same way it does the eastern ones, that's a thing that you really can't argue on. Not every website created by western people is administrated by russophobes.






Quasi Juice said:


> Why? Netherlands and Germany are also white on that map. And don't tell me Finland is amazing because they are ranked number one because all I've heard from Finnish people and people who've been to Finland is that it's a depressing place.


The weather is really depressing in fall and early spring, but I really don't see how else Finland would be depressing. Maybe I'm just too used to people not smiling on the streets, not looking you in the eyes and generally looking angry all the time etc. :lol

I do see the argument for Netherlands though. In fact it's one of the few countries I can see being better than Finland in terms of being a good place to live.


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## Black Jesus (Apr 7, 2013)

Truly sad to see how fucked Africa and Asia are.


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## Spanish Lariato (Jul 26, 2011)

That map is rubbish. How the hell Spain has an "acceptable" levels of Freedom of press? Spain is a country that has closed newspapers like Egin, that has hijacked humor magazines for despicting the Prince in a sexual intercourse in a cartoon or that has closed public channels like RTVV. In Spain there are political prisoners for things like being communist or speak against the crown. Last time I checked Spanish media was owned by six "entrepeneurs" (six! And one of them is Berlusconi). The only freedom of press I see in here is the freedom to manipulate, lie and defame if you got the money, obviously. How is that freedom if you can't have control on any media, if you can't associate with another workers and have a minimum of difussion. As always freedom is a right that only belongs to the dominant class. The average worker is unprotected from the manipulation. I don't see freedom at all. That sort of survey is meaningless because it is based in an abstraction, in a pure metaphysic concept. The only thing that the analysis measures is how easy is for the capitalist to manipulate the population.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Its just spicy southwestern propaganda










very underrated


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*Moscow Slams Ukraine’s Bill on Curtailing Russian*

MOSCOW, February 25 (RIA Novosti) – A Ukrainian bill that would see Russian dropped as an official language in a number of regions is a *“blatant violation” of ethnic minorities’ rights*, a senior Russian diplomat said on Tuesday.

“*The attack on the Russian language in Ukraine is a blatant violation of the rights of the ethnic minority*. It is against the principle of the rule of law,” said Konstantin Dolgov, a human rights official at the Foreign Ministry.

The legislative proposal follows the ouster of Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych over the weekend and has already aroused concerns that a surge of nationalism in the former Soviet nation could unfairly marginalize the substantial ethnic Russian community.

The bill, passed by the Ukrainian parliament on Sunday, *repeals the 2012 law, under which Russian is recognized as a second official language in regions where at least 10 percent of the population is Russian-speaking.* Just under half of Ukrainian regions meet that standard. *About 35% of Ukraine's population are native Russian speakers. 
*
*PERCENTAGE OF NATIVE RUSSIAN SPEAKERS IN UKRAINE BY REGION*







[/URL][/IMG]


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*Ethnic Russian Rage Excites Secession Talk in Ukraine’s Crimea*

SEVASTOPOL, February 25 (Howard Amos, RIA Novosti) – “A Russian mayor for a Russian town,” chanted the lively and irate crowd clogging the center of Sevastopol, a warm water port on the Black Sea.

Except that Sevastopol is, in actual fact, in Ukraine.

*Since the opposition, much of whose ranks are occupied by unabashed Ukrainian nationalists, seized power, calls for secession have been spreading across the sprawling nation’s mainly Russian-speaking southern and eastern regions*.

*In Sevastopol on the Crimean peninsula, talk of greater autonomy turned to action Monday evening, when a throng numbering several thousand strong assembled outside the city hall.*

Their first call was to demand that an extraordinary town council meeting recognize a local businessman with strong ties to Russia, Alexei Chaliy, as the city’s new mayor.

*As some hotheads in the crowd threatened to storm the building, others waved Russian flags *and brushed aside objections that Chaliy’s Russian citizenship made him ineligible for the job.

Before long, the announcement filtered through that Chaliy had been voted head of a new coordination council, and within a few minutes, he appeared at a second floor window to the cries of supporters.

In a move that smoothed the process, the former mayoral incumbent Vladimir Yatsuba had earlier tearfully announced his resignation, thereby paving the way for the Russian town to get its Russian leader.

*The day’s events marked the first stages in the establishment of an anti-Kiev administration* amid tumultuous development that will cause headaches for the group of politicians that have replaced the administration of ousted fugitive President Viktor Yanukovych.

*Similar expressions of popular anger have taken place across southern and eastern Ukraine in recent days*, but nowhere is dissatisfaction with the new regime greater than in Crimea, the Black Sea peninsula of two million people, which is the country’s only region with a majority ethnic Russian population.

Chaliy’s election, which has been widely covered by Kremlin-friendly media outlets in Russia, is unprecedented. *Sevastopol has not elected a mayor by popular plebiscite since Kiev deprived it of that right in 1992*.

Following up on their successful collective decision to install Chaliy as city head, *the gathering in Sevastopol demanded that local security forces declare their allegiance to him and set up roadblocks to seal off the city*.

Speculation, often feverish, has been rife that armed units are to be dispatched from western Ukraine to subjugate Crimea and bend them to Kiev’s will.

City police chief Alexander Goncharov, who went to Monday’s meeting to answer questions, said four roadblocks manned by armed officers would be set up around the city.

“*If we receive criminal orders from Kiev, we will not carry them out*,” he said, in what seemed like a qualified attempt at fence-sitting as the situation becomes clearer.

One of the people in the crowd, Fyodor, 26, a sailor from Sevastopol who travels around the world on merchant ships, *echoed a common hope that Moscow could get involved.

*“If there’s repression of Russians in Crimea then Russia will be forced to respond,” he said.

Alexandra, who declined to give her surname, *called on Russian President Vladimir Putin to take direct action.
*
“Putin and the Black Sea fleet should come,” she said. “We are not scared of bloodshed.”

Crimea’s ties with Russia go back a long way.

*Until Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev in 1954 transferred the territory to what was then the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, Crimea was officially a part of Russia*.

During Yanukovych’s tenure, which began in early 2010, Ukraine renewed Russia’s lease on the naval base in Sevastopol until 2042, cementing what was already a strong economic link between Moscow and the region.

Separatist sentiments surfaced following the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, and rumors have persisted ever since that the impulse is covertly encouraged by the Kremlin.

On Sunday, there was a wave of large pro-Russian rallies in Crimea. *Some estimates put the turnout in Sevastopol upward of 20,000*, far larger than the impromptu throng of the following day. *Speakers condemned the new government in Kiev as fascist and openly called for secession*.

“*We will not submit to the regime in Kiev*,” Dmitry Sinichkin, president of the local branch of motorcycle club the Night Wolves told the crowd in Sevastopol.

The Night Wolves are closely linked to Russia’s political elite. Putin has visited the group in the city several times, on one occasion in 2010 riding a three-wheeled Harley Davidson alongside the bikers.

After his speech, Sinichkin told RIA Novosti that fresh bloodshed in Ukraine’s ongoing political crisis was inevitable.

Rally-goers waved the Russian red, white and blue tricolor and yelled the football fan-style chant of “Ros-si-ya, Ros-si-ya, Ros-si-ya,” as they endorsed *calls to create self-defense squads with police cooperation and withhold taxes from Kiev.
*
“Sevastopol is a Russian town and will always be a Russian town … *we will never surrender to those fascists in Kiev,*” said Anatoly, who was wearing a sweater bearing the logo of the United Russia party that dominates the political landscape in Ukraine’s eastern neighbor.

United Russia, he said, had signed a cooperation agreement with the Sevastopol Russian Community, a local society of which he was a member.

Purported moves in Moscow in recent years to push for granting Russian passports to ethnic Russians abroad has drawn fierce criticism from Kiev and sparked allegations of an attempted backdoor land grab.

While Putin had as of Tuesday refrained from making any public pronouncements on the unfolding situation, *the Russian Foreign Ministry was more forthright in describing the acting government as gaining power through “dictatorial and sometimes terrorist methods*.”

In remarks that hinted at possible future pressure from the Kremlin, Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev expressed particular concern about Russians living in Ukraine.

Indeed, fears are rising that southern separatists will use the current crisis to provoke Russians into lending their muscle and peel Crimea away from Ukraine.

Some experts have raised the possibility of a scenario in which the peninsula becomes trapped in a frozen conflict and becomes wholly dependent on Russia.

“It’s easy to imagine that the Crimea calls a referendum and gets special status within the Ukraine,” said Masha Lipman, an analyst with the Carnegie Center in Moscow. “The natural next step would be to secede … and that could turn Ukraine into an unrecognized state like Abkhazia.”

How the new regime in Kiev will act is also hard to predict.

Interim President Oleksandr Turchynov warned Tuesday that he recognized that separatism was a “serious threat” and said he would liaise with security forces on how to resolve the issue.

In statements that can only have served to sow alarm, leaders from the nationalist Svoboda party, which played a central role in the opposition’s ascent to power, reportedly said Monday that Russia was dispatching extra naval forces to Crimea.

In Sevastopol, Viktor Neganov, an advisor to acting Interior Minister, told RIA Novosti that the new government was for now trying to settle the situation without the use of force.

But Neganov warned that what Chaliy is doing in the city amounts to a local coup.

“If he stays, he will go to jail as a traitor to the state,” he said.


----------



## elhijodelbodallas (Jan 30, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> It's a waste of time arguing that your list was created by one of the countries in yellow and supports their agenda.
> You already know that!
> 
> More importantly, it is the rich who own and control the newspapers, TV and radio stations, magazines, and other
> ...


This is a joke right? Nobody can be this blind...

What would I accomplish by visiting Belarus? You think me spending a few days there would really give me a good notion of how people live there and the liberties they're neglected? Unless you live there permanently you have no way of knowing how life really is. Some people go to North Korea and come out saying it wasn't too bad.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

elhijodelbodallas said:


> This is a joke right? Nobody can be this blind...
> 
> What would I accomplish by visiting Belarus? You think me spending a few days there would really give me a good notion of how people live there and the liberties they're neglected? Unless you live there permanently you have no way of knowing how life really is. Some people go to North Korea and come out saying it wasn't too bad.


Just going somewhere won't do anything to you. You have to live there to actually know what is going on.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Will NATO annex Ukraine?

by *Pepe Escobar*

_Pepe Escobar is the roving correspondent for Asia Times/Hong Kong, an analyst for RT and TomDispatch, and a frequent contributor to websites and radio shows ranging from the US to East Asia._ 

Anyone who believes Washington is deeply enamored of ‘democracy’ in Ukraine must hit eBay, where Saddam Hussein’s WMDs have been found, and are on sale to the highest bidder.

Or pay attention to the non-denial denials of the Obama administration, which swears on a daily basis there’s no ‘proxy war’ or Cold War redux in Ukraine. 

In a nutshell; Washington’s bipartisan Ukraine policy has always been anti-Moscow. *That implies regime change whenever necessary*. As the European Union (EU), geopolitically, is nothing but an annex to NATO, what matters is NATO extending its borders to the Ukraine. Or at least Western Ukraine – which would be a valuable consolation prize. 

This is a purely military-centric game – the logic of the whole mechanism ultimately decided in Washington, not in Brussels. *It’s about NATO expansion, not ‘democracy’*. When neo-con State Department functionary Victoria Nuland had her 15 seconds of fame recently, what she actually meant was “We’re NATO, F**k the EU.” No wonder *there will be an urgent NATO Defense Ministers meeting in Brussels on Wednesday, centered on Ukraine*. 

No one will ever read that in US corporate media – or in academia for that matter. Harvard Professor Francis Boyle talking to Voice of Russia, or Princeton’s Stephen Cohen in a recent article for the Nation, are glaring exceptions. 

Every informed analyst knows the mastermind of this ‘policy’, since the 1970s, is *Zbigniew ‘The Grand Chessboard’ Brzezinski*. Dr. Zbig was US President Barack Obama’s mentor at Columbia and is the Talleyrand of the Obama administration’s foreign policy machine. 

He may have softened up a notch recently, arguing that although the US must remain the supreme power across Eurasia, Russia and Turkey must be seduced by the West. Yet his historic Russophobia was never diluted. 

*‘Saint’ Yulia is back* 

As we’re now on the road (again) of regime change in Ukraine, that seems not such a lousy deal for only $5 billion - the amount volunteered by neo-con Nuland herself. Compare it to other lavish Bush-Obama continuum foreign adventures, from Afghanistan and Iraq to Syria. Yet expect major bumps ahead. 

Most arguably progressive, as well as some rabidly right wing, Google generation denizens in Western Ukraine and in Kiev* seem to entertain the notion that the country, under regime change, will be accepted as an EU member, they will get an EU passport, and will find a good job in Europe, just as Polish plumbers and Romanian restaurant managers did*. 

Well, not really. If only they could board an EasyJet and see with their own eyes what’s going on, job market-wise, in southern Europe or in London for that matter, *now terrified of a horde of Eastern Europeans seizing English jobs*. 

As for the ultra-nationalists and frankly neo-fascists – totally anti-EU - the only thing they care about is to get rid of the Russian Bear’s embrace. *And then what?* 

*In the West’s ardor for ‘democracy’ it’s so easy to forget that Western Ukrainian fascists were aligned with Hitler against the USSR*. It’s their descendants that have been in the forefront of the hardcore violence last week. And Right Sector still insists they will continue to ‘protest’. In this sense they may not be Washington’s preferred puppets; *they are just momentarily useful patsies*. 

As for former Ukrainian Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko – *now elevated in the West to the status of a blonde Mother Teresa *– she has called the Maidan (Independence) Square protesters “liberators.” They may soon liberate themselves from her – after highly corrupt ‘Saint’ Yulia runs for president next May. 

The Ukraine that works - in the east and south – is made up of historic Russian provinces, think Kharkov, the Black Sea, Crimea. The country’s GDP is roughly $157 billion. That’s one fifth of Turkey (which may become the new Pakistan). As it is, *Ukraine holds no economic value whatsoever to the West* (even less if it becomes the new Syria). *The only ‘positive’ would be NATO’s warped strategic advance*. 

*Anyone who believes a mired-in-crisis EU will buy Ukraine out of is economic mess could once again bid for Saddam’s WMDs on eBay*. Or imagine the US Congress handing out $15 billion for Ukraine to smooth out its foreign debt, not to mention reducing the price of imported gas – just like Moscow did last December. 

*Say hello to my Iskander* 

The multi-billion dollar question now is what Russian President Vladimir Putin will do. One must feel tempted to detect roars of laughter in the Kremlin corridors. 

For starters, Putin will decide whether or not Moscow will buy $2 billion in Ukrainian eurobonds after there’s a new government in Kiev, as Gazeta.ru reported. Kiev will get absolutely nothing from Moscow until it’s clear the new regime will play ball, in the interests of holding the country together. 

‘Saint’ Yulia, by the way, was originally thrown in jail because of a gas deal that was negotiated on Moscow’s high price terms. Back to hard facts: *Ukraine cannot survive without Russian gas, and the Ukrainian industry cannot survive without the Russian market*. One can mix all shades of Orange, Tangerine, Campari or Tequila Sunrise revolution, and throw in the requisite IMF ‘structural adjustment’ correction – *these facts are not going to change*. And forget about the EU ‘buying Ukrainian’. 

The Western Orangeade gang – from masters to servants – may still bet on civil war, Syria-style. *Anarchy looms – provoked by the neo-fascists*. It’s up to Ukrainians to reject it. A sound solution would be a referendum. Get the people to choose a confederation, a partition (there will be blood) or keeping the status quo. 

Here’s a very possible scenario. *Eastern and southern Ukraine become part of Russia again*; Moscow would arguably accept it. *Western Ukraine is plundered, disaster capitalism-style, by the Western corporate-financial mafia *– while nobody gets a single EU passport. As for NATO, *they get their bases, ‘annexing’ Ukraine, but also get myriads of hyper-accurate Russian Iskander missiles locked on their new abode.* So much for Washington’s ‘strategic advance’. 

_The statements, views and opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of RT.

_


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*NEO-NAZI WESTERN UKRAINIANS CONSOLIDATE POWER AFTER KIEV COUP*


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

LOOK AT ALL THIS PRO EASTERN PROPAGANDA

NOTHING BUT PRO EASTER PAGODA


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

This is all just one big propaganda war. It's just who can tell more lies about the other.


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## Embracer (Aug 16, 2012)

Everyone is corrupted and there is no good side and never was. I try not to go into details with these news cause this just disgusts me.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

BREAKING NEWS ON COUP IN UKRAINE

*RUSSIA MOBILIZES 150,000 TROOOPS NEAR BORDER WITH UKRAINE* 
MOSCOW, February 27 (CNN) - The Russian military has mobilized 150,000 troops that are engaging in military exercises near the border with Ukraine. The Russian Air Force as been put on high alert and has begun flying patrols along the Ukrainian border...








*TOP RUSSIAN PARLIAMENTARIANS ARRIVE IN CRIMEA*

SEVASTOPOL, February 27 (RIA Novosti) – A clutch of high-profile Russian parliamentarians arrived in the Ukrainian city of Sevastopol on Thursday as unrest in the region spread.

Boxing champion Nikolai Valuev, former figure skater Irina Rodnina, and the first woman in space Valentina Tereshkova were photographed in the central square of Sevastopol, which has been the focal point of pro-Russia protests in the city since it was the site of a Sunday rally attended by up to 20,000 people.

“I arrived in Sevastopol to support residents of Crimea. Friends, Russia is with you!” Valuev wrote on Twitter. The prominent deputies from Russia’s parliament are the latest in a string of senior Russian officials to visit the troubled region.



*ARMED MEN SEIZE CRIMEA PARLIAMENT, RAISING TENSIONS IN UKRAINE*

SIMFEROPOL, February 27 (RIA Novosti) – Unidentified armed men apparently seeking closer ties with Russia on Thursday seized the parliament in the Crimean Peninsula in southern Ukraine.

The occupation comes a day after crowds of Crimean Tatars scuffled outside the building with pro-Russians, who have said they reject the rule of the leadership that has taken over the country since President Viktor Yanukovych was ousted over the weekend. The local Muslim Tatar population largely supports the incoming government in Kiev.

A Russian flag was reportedly hoisted by pro-Russian self-defense squads that stormed the building in the regional capital, Simferopol. The squads have been forming in predominantly ethnic Russian Crimea since Yanukovych was toppled.

Meanwhile, a crowd of pro-Russian protesters had gathered nearby and unfurled a huge Russian flag. Ukraine’s acting Interior Minister confirmed the seizure by men with automatic weapons.



*DEFIANT YANUKOVICH REQUESTS RUSSIA PROTECTION*

MOSCOW, February 27 (RIA Novosti) - Ousted Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych issued a defiant statement Thursday condemning the country’s interim government and maintaining that he is still head of state.

“Everything that is happening now in the Verkhovna Rada (parliament) of Ukraine is illegitimate," Yanukovych said in a statement distributed to Russian news agencies. "All decisions will quickly show their ineffectiveness and will not be fulfilled.”

“It’s becoming obvious now that people in southeast Ukraine and in the Crimea will not accept anarchic and de facto lawlessness in the country when the heads of ministries are elected by crowds in the street,” Yanukovych said.



*FUGITIVE UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT TO HOLD PRESS CONFERENCE IN RUSSIA*

MOSCOW, February 28 (RIA Novosti) – Deposed Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych, whom Ukraine put on an international wanted list on mass murder charges, will hold a news conference in southern Russia on Friday, an official close to him said Thursday.

The conference will take place at 17:00 Moscow time (1.00 p.m. GMT) in the city of Rostov-on-Don at a venue to be announced soon.

Anonymous government sources said earlier in the day that Russia had accepted Yanukovych’s request for security and that the fugitive leader was currently on Russian territory.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

REMOVED. ACCIDENTAL DOUBLE POST>


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

From CNN:

Kiev, Ukraine (CNN) -- Dozens of armed men seized the regional government administration building and parliament in Ukraine's southern Crimean region Thursday and raised the Russian flag in a challenge to the Eastern European country's new leaders.

Crimea, a Black Sea peninsula with an ethnic Russian majority, is the last big bastion of opposition to the new political leadership in the capital, Kiev, after Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych's ouster Saturday.

The seizure, coming a day after Russia ordered surprise military exercises on Ukraine's doorstep, has raised fears about the push and pull of opposing allegiances in a country sandwiched between Russia and the European Union.

Read more: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/02/27/world/europe/ukraine-politics/

I wonder what Batko will say now. He was furious when Ukrainians did this and now Russians did the exact same thing. I wonder what Batko will say about this.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> I wonder what Batko will say now. He was furious when Ukrainians did this and now Russians did the exact same thing. I wonder what Batko will say about this.


I already posted this on the other page.

What will I say? I say the Russian speaking South and East is preparing to defend itself against violence from the forces of the illegal coup in Kiev. They didn't create the situation - the insurgents in Kiev did. They are reacting to it. 

But, what do you say? You supported the insurgents in Kiev when they were throwing molotov cocktails, murdering police officers, and taking over government buildings. You claim they were defending themselves against a government that didn't listen to the people's wishes. 

The ethnic Russians in Crimea are defending themselves against an illegal government that is not listening to the people's wishes. The difference is that nobody has been murdered, no molotov cocktails have been thrown, mass destruction of property has not occurred in Crimea. That will happen when the Western Ukrainian insurgents launch an attack on Crimea and the Eastern regions. 

Instead of being a hypocrite and making all sorts of excuses for them and pointing fingers at Crimea, why don't you just admit that you support the US/EU/NATO backed fascist insurgents??? 

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Here is a summary of the "democratic" history of Ukraine in the 21st century:

*2005*: 
1. Yanukovich *defeats* Yushchenko in the election for president.
2. *U.S. instigates and backs the Western Ukrainian "Orange Revolution*" that brings out tens of thousands in protest of *alleged "discrepancies"* in the election.
3. The election is *replayed *so the result comes out with a pro-US/NATO/EU candidate (Yushchenko) winning.

*2010*:
1. Fed up with discrimination against the large Russian speaking minority, revisionist history, granting hero status to Nazi collaborators, and governmental corruption, the majority of Ukrainian voters cast ballots for Yanukovich over Tymoshenko and Yushchenko.

2. Yanukovich is recognized by all the governments of both the East and West as the legitimate president of Ukraine.

3. Yanukovich rescinds hero status of Nazi collaborators, gives the Russian language regional status, and moves Ukraine to closer ties with Russia.

*2014*:
1. Upset with all of the above and knowing that they won't have the votes in a year to vote out the present government, the fascist Western Ukrainians with the support of the West create a bloody insurgency in Kiev and Western Ukraine, and a successful coup against President Yanukovich.

2. Now the next step is to use force to bring the Eastern and Southern regions into line.

Folks, that's pretty much it in a nutshell.


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## TB Tapp (Oct 26, 2013)

Batko10 said:


> Here is a summary of the "democratic" history of Ukraine in the 21st century:
> 
> 2. * Now the next step is to use force to bring the Eastern and Southern regions into line.*
> 
> Folks, that's pretty much it in a nutshell.


Life is going to be pretty grim for Ukraine's Russians in the south and east if the Maidan mob and its radical liberal puppet-masters triumph. I can see Crimea given over to the Muslim Tartars to rule and Sharia law being imposed on its Russian and Orthodox majority population. Ukraine should either be divided into two states or the south and east be incorporated into Russia. Either, Ukrainians should never again be in a position to rule over Russians.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)




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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> I already posted this on the other page.
> 
> What will I say? I say the Russian speaking South and East is preparing to defend itself against violence from the forces of the illegal coup in Kiev. They didn't create the situation - the insurgents in Kiev did. They are reacting to it.
> 
> ...


Illigal coup in Kiev is illegal. And illegal coup in Crimea is allright as long as the Russians do it.

In the clashes close to one hundred protesters were killed and only 16 policemen. Saying that rioters were murdering policemen is ridiculous.


And by the way, at least two people were killed and some people injured in Crimea.

It's you, who's being hypocrite. You said that what Ukrainians did was wrong and now are supporting Russians, who are doing the same things.


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> Illigal coup in Kiev is illegal. And illegal coup in Crimea is allright as long as the Russians do it.
> 
> In the clashes close to one hundred protesters were killed and only 16 policemen. Saying that rioters were murdering policemen is ridiculous.
> 
> ...


Do you know what you sound like when you say the Western Ukrainian insurgents killed "*only*" 16 police officers???

It is *NOT* at all hypocritical to support the people in Crimea who are opposing the revolutionary scum in Kiev who trampled on the constitution and forcibly took power from the legitimately elected government.

The people in Crimea obeyed the law and constitution until the Western Ukrainian insurgents in Kiev took power by a violent coup and have been acting totally outside the constitution and laws. 

The Crimeans and all the people of Ukraine have not only have the right, but the *DUTY TO OPPOSE THE REVOLUTIONARY, NON-ELECTED FASCIST GOVERNMENT IN KIEV AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION THAT HAS BEEN TRAMPLED ON BY THIS SCUM!*

- Mike


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## BruiserKC (Mar 14, 2010)

It is a matter of time before Putin openly steps in and sends Russian troops into the Ukraine. The touchy-feely, warm-fuzzy Putin he tried to show the world during the Olympics is gone and he's about to show the whole world why he is a very threatening force throughout Europe and the reverberations will be felt beyond. 

Дерьмо собирается получить реальный (shit is going to get real)


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## Stax Classic (May 27, 2010)

Well yeah, Putin started the whole thing so that he could do that.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Do you know what you sound like when you say the Western Ukrainian insurgents killed "*only*" 16 police officers???
> 
> It is *NOT* at all hypocritical to support the people in Crimea who are opposing the revolutionary scum in Kiev who trampled on the constitution and forcibly took power from the legitimately elected government.
> 
> ...


I just said 'only' in comparison with how many people the police killed. You're just being delusional, supporting one nazi group and completely despise the other nazi group. Why don't you start calling things what they are?


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

BruiserKC said:


> It is a matter of time before Putin openly steps in and sends Russian troops into the Ukraine. The touchy-feely, warm-fuzzy Putin he tried to show the world during the Olympics is gone and he's about to show the whole world why he is a very threatening force throughout Europe and the reverberations will be felt beyond.
> 
> Дерьмо собирается получить реальный (shit is going to get real)


:lmao at that translation. Google Translate?

It was obvious from the very beginning that Yanukovich was Putin's puppet. Putin better mind his own business. Why can't he just stay away from other countries' business?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> I just said 'only' in comparison with how many people the police killed. You're just being delusional, supporting one nazi group and completely despise the other nazi group. Why don't you start calling things what they are?


Delusional is ignoring and denying the fact that the people in power at the moment in Kiev obtained that power by a brutal insurgency that had nothing to do with democracy.

Delusional is ignoring the fact that the present illegal government in Kiev trampled on the constitution to take power and continues to trample on the constitution by repealing legislation and replacing it with their own legislation through means of force, *NOT* law.

Delusional is ignoring and denying the fact that this entire disaster for Ukraine was brought upon them by the Western Ukrainian insurgents now in power and blaming the people in the East and South of the country for refusing to knuckle under to these criminals.

Calling the people in Crimea "Nazis" is absurd and a tactic. They're *not* calling on their people to fight to the death with the Jews or anyone else. They're *not* attempting to torch synagogues or take over Russian Orthodox church buildings. They're not calling for the deportation of anyone who does not support the insurgency and illegal government in Kiev. The Chief Rabbi of Ukraine is saying that Jews feel in danger because of the beliefs of the present government, not because of the people in Crimea or Eastern Ukraine.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> :
> 
> It was obvious from the very beginning that Yanukovich was Putin's puppet. Putin better mind his own business. Why can't he just stay away from other countries' business?


On the other hand, why can't the United States and European Union stay away from other countries' business???

Their interference in the present situation in Ukraine was evident from the beginning. The United States' blatant expansion of its hegemony through regime change and outright invasion has been obvious for the last two decades since the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> On the other hand, why can't the United States and European Union stay away from other countries' business???
> 
> Their interference in the present situation in Ukraine was evident from the beginning. The United States' blatant expansion of its hegemony through regime change and outright invasion has been obvious for the last two decades since the dissolution of the Soviet Union.
> 
> - Mike


You turned the argument around once again. I mean, can't you see that both sides are doing exactly the same? Yet you blame one side and defend the other.


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> You turned the argument around once again. I mean, can't you see that both sides are doing exactly the same? Yet you blame one side and defend the other.


Tomas, it's hopeless discussing this with you. Can't you see that the side that you are defending is the cause of the problems??? People opposing them in the East and South are reacting to their insurgency and preparing to protect themselves. 

Whatever you can say about Yanukovich, he took power by the ballot, *not* the bullet. If people didn't like him they could have voted him out of office in a year.

As I pointed out in a previous post, this has been the pattern in Ukrainian politics. Yanukovich wins in 2004/5 and the Western Ukrainians backed by the U.S. send tens of thousands into the streets in the "Orange Revolution" and get the election cancelled and Yushchenko then wins.

Fed up with Yushchenko's corruption and fascist political policies the people vote in Yanukovich in 2010. All world leaders recognize him as the legitimate president of Ukraine.

Angered at Yanukovich's policies (the reason is irrelevant), four years later the Western Ukrainians initiate a violent insurgency that is openly backed by the US and EU. They illegally take over the government and begin trampling on the constitution and the laws of the land.

The people in charge today are in charge not by the will of the Ukrainian people, but by the force of a revolution of a certain segment of Ukrainian society.

We know what kind of racist, fascist animals have taken over in Kiev. However, just as bad is the hypocrisy of the "democracy loving" West that supports this scum and recognizes their illegitimate regime.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Tomas, it's hopeless discussing this with you. Can't you see that the side that you are defending is the cause of the problems??? People opposing them in the East and South are reacting to their insurgency and preparing to protect themselves.


People in the East are just reacting to the government that had to be overthrown. The government that didn't listen to what they want. Yes, it was a revolution. And how many revolutions do you know that were accomplished without blood?



Batko10 said:


> The people in charge today are in charge not by the will of the Ukrainian people, but by the force of a revolution of a certain segment of Ukrainian society.


Just fpalm. And Yanukovich was there by the will of another certain segment of Ukrainian society. How can you be so blind and not see that the Eastern Ukrainians and the Western Ukrainians are just as good as the other? It's hopeless indeed.


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> People in the East are just reacting to the government that had to be overthrown. The government that didn't listen to what they want. Yes, it was a revolution. And how many revolutions do you know that were accomplished without blood?
> 
> 
> 
> Just fpalm. And Yanukovich was there by the will of another certain segment of Ukrainian society. How can you be so blind and not see that the Eastern Ukrainians and the Western Ukrainians are just as good as the other? It's hopeless indeed.


First of all, from your statement I infer that you support violent revolution, not democracy. At least that's honest. 

Yes, Yanukovich was there by the will of another certain segment of Ukrainian society - *THE MAJORITY OF UKRAINIAN SOCIETY*. Granted, he won by a slim margin, but it was still a *DEMOCRATIC* victory at the polls. His supporters were *NOT* casting molotov cocktails at the police, but casting their ballots in a democratic election.

The Western Ukrainians were the ones casting the molotov cocktails, and the Eastern/Southern Ukrainians were the ones casting the ballots. I believe that in itself demonstrates who's who.

- Mike


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> First of all, from your statement I infer that you support violent revolution, not democracy. At least that's honest.


Yes, I support VIOLENT REVOLUTION. How many peaceful revolutions have you seen? I support the people because sometimes people have to rise up against a corrupt government and overthrow it when the situation calls for it. They don't want to be under the rule of the tyrant another year. People want changes and they want it now. And the government should know better than not to listen to its people.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> Yes, I support VIOLENT REVOLUTION. How many peaceful revolutions have you seen? I support the people because sometimes people have to rise up against a corrupt government and overthrow it when the situation calls for it. They don't want to be under the rule of the tyrant another year. People want changes and they want it now. And the government should know better than not to listen to its people.


Typical western hypocrisy - you love the rule of law unless it doesn't suit your agenda or view on how things should be. 

And, if the people overthrow the illegal fascist government in Kiev or revolt in the East and South will you support their revolution??? Or, do you only support insurgencies that fit your agenda or world view??? 

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Typical western hypocrisy - you love the rule of law unless it doesn't suit your agenda or view on how things should be.
> 
> And, if the people overthrow the illegal fascist government in Kiev or revolt in the East and South will you support their revolution??? Or, do you only support insurgencies that fit your agenda or world view???
> 
> - Mike


That's a stupid question. Why wouldn't I support something that fits my world view? Don't you? Doesn't everybody support what they like and think is right?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Here is an example of the kind of people who started the insurgency in Ukraine and are running the country today. The scumbag cursing and swearing in the video is Muzychko, the fascist leader who recently said that he would "*fight Jews and Russians until the day he died.*"

It's pretty obvious who is running the show in Rovno and other Western Ukrainian regions. It certainly isn't the local prosecutor whose clerk is bitch slapped, cursed, and humiliated by Muzychko because the prosecutor isn't in the office. Meanwhile, a court police officer stands in the background helpless.

*Shut the fuck up you bitch! Your time is up!*


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## TheJack (Mar 13, 2006)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/27/ukraine-crisis-economy-idUSL6N0LW44M20140227

Filthy western propaganda.
First they build a villa with a golf course in one day and lie about it being the home of the humble Yanukovich and now this. 

Yanukovich and Putin are only ruling for the sake of the people and they do not fill their pockets with money and build villas around the country.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*YANUKOVICH PRESS CONFERENCE IN ROSTOV-ON-DON, February 28th*













*ROSTOV-ON-DON, February 28 *(Howard Amos, RIA Novosti) – Ousted Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych lashed out at the West on Friday for its support for what he described as the violent usurpers that seized power in his former Soviet nation over the weekend.

Looking nervous while addressing reporters in the southern Russian city of Rostov-on-Don, Yanukovych rejected suggestions that he had been overthrown and insisted he was forced to flee Ukraine under duress.

“Power in Ukraine was seized by nationalists, neo-Fascist youths that represent an absolute minority of the people,” he said. “I was not overthrown. *I was forced to leave Ukraine under immediate threat to my life and the lives of my loved ones.”*

Yanukovych characterized the current situation in Ukraine as one of “*illegality, terror, anarchy and chaos,” and said that those now in power in Kiev were fully to blame for the current crisis*.

“*I lay the responsibility for this on those now in power … and the representatives of the West, including the United States, who gave their support to the Maidan,”* he said, referring to the square that served as the focal point of the protest movement that spearheaded his unseating.

Yanukovych’s press conference took place in a sprawling conference center on the outskirts of Rostov-on-Don. In the next-door building an exhibition of agricultural machinery was taking place.

The fugitive president did not give a reason why he was in the city, except to say that he was staying with an “old friend.” He said he would return to Ukraine as soon as his safety could be guaranteed.

Yanukovych used the gathering as a platform from which to appeal to Russia for help, but said that he did not support armed intervention. He said he had spoken with Russian President Vladimir Putin by telephone, but emphasized that they had not met in person.

“Knowing the character of Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin I am surprised that he is still so reticent, so silent,” he said.

Putin has made no public comment on the Ukrainian crisis since the opposition swept to power in Kiev.

On Saturday, Yanukovych was impeached by erstwhile protesters who took control over parliament and banded together with disaffected deputies from the ex-ruling Party of Regions.

*The impeachment vote came one day after opposition parties signed an agreement with Yanukovych on a political settlement to form a unity government, call early elections and reform the constitution.
*
That proposed arrangement was superseded by events, however, when the opposition occupied the Verkhovna Rada, Ukraine’s parliament, as police disappeared from the center of Kiev.

Yanukovych said he did not recognize the authority of parliament.

“*I believe the Verkhovna Rada is illegitimate, and I still believe that [Friday’s] agreement was not fulfilled,” *he said. “If it had been fulfilled, or if it is fulfilled, it would to a considerable extent calm the situation and begin the process of settling the political crisis in Ukraine.”

“This is the only way out of the impasse to which we have been brought by the radicals,” he said.

Interim authorities have called elections for May 25, but Yanukovych said he would not acknowledge the legitimacy of that planned vote.

“*It is illegal, and I will not be taking part*,” he said.

Yanukovych even had to face questions Friday about the contents of his mansion outside Kiev that was thrown open to curious locals last weekend after he left the capital.

“*I sold everything that I had and paid $3.2 million for that house. All the rest that is there now does not belong to me. I rented part of the site,” *he said in a long response to question about ponies that he allegedly kept on the estate.

Ukraine’s Interior Ministry on Monday issued an arrest warrant for Yanukovych on charges of mass murder.

Interior Minister Arsen Avakov said Yanukovych was being sought in connection with the killings of “innocent citizens,” a reference to protesters who died during clashes between anti-government protesters and security forces.

Authorities in Kiev have said they want to see Yanukovych tried in the International Criminal Court for the killings.

Yanukovych said in response to a question on the prospect of a trial in The Hague that *he first wanted to see an impartial investigation into the events that led to at least 82 deaths, including more than a dozen police officers, on the streets of Kiev.
*
“There must be an independent investigation involving the government and opposition, first of all, and then the Council of Europe. After an independent investigation, then we can start talks about courts,” he said.

At the height of the unrest, authorities insisted that police were simply protecting government buildings from violent extremists. *Many of those involved in clashes with police were armed with shields, sticks and Molotov cocktails, and some were reportedly also carrying firearms.
*
A large number of protesters killed in clashes bore gunshot wounds that opposition representatives said were sustained as a result of sniper fire.

Yanukovych said at the press conference that he never gave any orders to fire on rioters.

“*I never gave the police any orders to shoot. The police, as you know, were unarmed until the very last moment. When there was a danger that they could be killed, that is when they began shooting. It was then that the police began to take up arms,”* he said.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

TheJack said:


> http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/27/ukraine-crisis-economy-idUSL6N0LW44M20140227
> 
> Filthy western propaganda.
> First they build a villa with a golf course in one day and lie about it being the home of the humble Yanukovich and now this.
> ...


:ti This may as well be the stupidest thing I've read all day.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> :ti This may as well be the stupidest thing I've read all day.


Tomas, I suspect the poster was being sarcastic.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*UKRAINE SAYS RUSSIAN TROOPS HAVE TAKEN OVER TWO AIRPORTS IN CRIMEA*


By William Booth, Washington Post, Updated: Friday, February 28, 9:58

SIMFEROPOL, Ukraine — Several hundred troops in green camouflage, without insignia and carrying military-style automatic rifles, entered and secured areas of the civilian airport in Crimea’s regional capital of Simferopol early Friday and deployed elsewhere, drawing protests from the new Ukrainian government against what it called a Russian invasion.

Video taken at the scene showed the troops patrolling inside the airport and standing guard outside. Flights continued to operate; no shots were fired.

Crimea news Web site, Argumenty Nedeli Krym, reported that the armed men carried assault rifles. “As journalists attempted to approach them, one of the servicemen warned that they would shoot to kill,” the Web site said.

At the Belbek airport, armed men and a military transport truck blocked the entrance. Whoever the men were, they did not appear to be civilian militiamen, but trained soldiers. 

When a man who appeared to be a Russian officer with two bodyguards approached them, they spread out in defensive positions, squatted and waited for orders. 

Dozens of troop transport trucks were scattered along the highway between Sevastopol and Simferopol. 

Seven Russian armored personnel carriers were spotted on the roadside outside Sevastopol showing Russian colors. One of the gunners said they were Russian Federation forces from a base in Russia’s Krasnodar region about 180 miles from Sochi.

The mysterious troops at the main airport in Simferopol slowly circulated at the arrival and departure concourses as international flights from Moscow and Istanbul continued as scheduled. 

The soldiers refused to answer questions from reporters about who they are and what their mission is.

A dozen pro-Russian civilian self defense militiamen stood by, but not with, the soldiers.

In the Balaklava district near Sevastopol, at least 20 men wearing the uniform of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet and carrying automatic rifles surrounded a Ukrainian border guard post Friday, initiating a tense standoff with Ukrainian border police inside, Reuters news agency reported.

A man who identified himself as an officer of the Black Sea Fleet told the agency: *“We are here . . . so as not to have a repeat of the Maidan.”* He referred to the popular uprising at Kiev’s Independence Square that led to the ouster of pro-Russian president Viktor Yanukovych last weekend.


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

Well, the U.S. would do the same, if Russia engineered a coup in Canada.


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> *Typical western hypocrisy* - you love the rule of law unless it doesn't suit your agenda or view on how things should be.
> 
> And, if the people overthrow the illegal fascist government in Kiev or revolt in the East and South will you support their revolution??? Or, do you only support insurgencies that fit your agenda or world view???
> 
> - Mike


Can you post any proof that this is typical to just western people, or is this just the hesperofobic in you speaking?


This isn't even the first time you've posted something like that on this thread. I find it mildly amusing that you run around calling the western people russophobes yet you constantly post silly comments like that.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

We just need a few posts about "Zionist bankers" and we will have a party


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## Spittekauga (Jul 21, 2013)

stevefox1200 said:


> We just need a few posts about "Zionist bankers" and we will have a party


If it weren't illegal in my country i would've said the real ethnicity instead but since such laws restrict my freedom of speech and possibility to provide correct information about the owners of the biggest and most influental banks in the world i will just say that it's not a false statement. Most of the owners to the banks and media seems to come from the same minority...

With that said, it's hard to get the full picture of what's going on in Ukraine because of the bias and the problem western-media seems to have to get a grip of the whole situation to fit into the geopolitical agenda. Kind of ironic that Russia Today is somewhat describing the whole thing better, although they don't like what's happening.

Strange or not really actually but you haven't really heard a lot about it in swedish media. This is a european country that a revolution has happened and people has been killed etc. What's the biggest news in Sweden? The fucking Eurovision song contest!


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> Can you post any proof that this is typical to just western people, or is this just the hesperofobic in you speaking?
> 
> 
> This isn't even the first time you've posted something like that on this thread.* I find it mildly amusing that you run around calling the western people russophobes yet you constantly post silly comments like that*.


If you think about it, it really isn't a silly comment.

The United States is constantly preaching about how it is for "democracry" and "freedom." If you look at Washington's actions just over the last two decades since the dissolution of the Soviet Union you can see its record of engineering regime changes in countries where the government is not to its liking. 

Belarus is a perfect example where the US has pumped tens of millions of dollars into an opposition that was, in fact, created by Washington. Despite all the money and instigation of civil disorder, the good old boys on capitol hill haven't been successful in bringing down the Byelorussian government. 

Where Washington and NATO cannot force a regime change they either invade or bomb the target country into submission, i.e. Iraq, Afghanistan, Serbia, Libya, etc. (They wouldn't try that with Belarus, because it would cause WW III with Russia.)

The choice of friends of the US and western nations is also quite interesting. How can such "democracy" loving, "freedom" loving nations have close buddies like Saudi Arabia? It's a rhetorical question. We all know the answer.

Regarding Ukraine, one day the US and western Europe openly acknowledge Yanukovich as the legitimate, democratically elected President of Ukraine. Then the next day, when it looks like he is not going to do what they want (i.e., join the EU) he is a tyrant and they support a blatant fascist insurgency and mob rule.

This is the way the West operates. And, if this is not hypocrisy, I don't know what is.

- Mike


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## Spittekauga (Jul 21, 2013)

The problem here is that you don't have to side with either the EU-bastards or Russia. I don't think a nationalistic party like Svoboda would want that and they certainly know from connections all over Europe what kind of crooks they are dealing with. I certainly believe that the people of Ukraine just want sovereignety and end of corruption and crooks.

The fact is that Janukovich was corrupt and the people didn't like him. And even though there seem to be forces within the revolution that want the change to made into the liberal-western/globalized direction i don't believe that will happen or certainly that's not representative of the whole opposition.

Just forwarding what i've heard from friends i made down in Kiev while i was watching EC there in 2012.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Spittekauga said:


> The problem here is that you don't have to side with either the EU-bastards or Russia. I don't think a nationalistic party like Svoboda would want that and they certainly know from connections all over Europe what kind of crooks they are dealing with. I certainly believe that the people of Ukraine just want sovereignety and end of corruption and crooks.
> 
> The fact is that Janukovich was corrupt and the people didn't like him. And even though there seem to be forces within the revolution that want the change to made into the liberal-western/globalized direction i don't believe that will happen or certainly that's not representative of the whole opposition.
> 
> Just forwarding what i've heard from friends i made down in Kiev while i was watching EC there in 2012.


The Svoboda Party is a neo-fascist, ultra-nationalist party that was created in Lviv (the "capital" of Western Ukraine). Only ethnic Ukrainians and skinheads are allowed to be members. These are the descendants of the Western Ukrainians who collaborated with the Nazis. They hate Jews, Russians, Poles, and, probably, even themselves. This is the scum of the earth. Unfortunately, it is one of the major parties in Western Ukraine and now a major player in the illegitimate government that is ruling the country. The head of the party, Oleg Tyahnibok, is an avowed anti-semite, Russian hater, and fascist. 

If you want to know what kind of people belong to this type of party check out the video that I put up in post #341 on the very top of page 35. 

Regarding Yanukovich, I have no argument that he was corrupt and lined his pockets. But, so did Tymoshenko, Yushchenko, and all the rest of them. In that regard, there is no difference. BTW, Tymoshenko was involved in not only shady financial dealings, but is also a suspect in a murder investigation. 

So, the excuse that this insurgency is because of Yanukovich's corruption is nonsense. The West engineered this revolution and was fanning the flames for months before it occurred. They hope to benefit from it and take defacto control of Ukraine. But, the Western Ukrainian neo-Nazis are the ones running the show right now.

- Mike


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## BruiserKC (Mar 14, 2010)

TomasThunder619 said:


> :lmao at that translation. Google Translate?
> 
> It was obvious from the very beginning that Yanukovich was Putin's puppet. Putin better mind his own business. Why can't he just stay away from other countries' business?


Yes, Google Translate.  

From the beginning, Putin's goal is to consolidate power and take control (either directly or indirectly) of some of the former Soviet states. First, Georgia, then Ukraine, and Ukraine is especially important considering its role in energy, food, and oil for both Russia and eastern Europe. Meanwhile, the West just shakes its head and wags its fingers at him as if that's going to do any good.


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## Doc (Oct 4, 2010)

I liked Obama's comment on this mornings news saying there would be 'costs' for Russia.
Yes I'm sure Putin is shitting himself. What costs is Obama speaking about?


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## TheJack (Mar 13, 2006)

Batko10 said:


> If you think about it, it really isn't a silly comment.
> 
> The United States is constantly preaching about how it is for "democracry" and "freedom." If you look at Washington's actions just over the last two decades since the dissolution of the Soviet Union you can see its record of engineering regime changes in countries where the government is not to its liking.
> 
> ...


This is the way EVERYBODY operates. Even Lukashenko was targeted by russian media when he didnt completely side with them.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Doc said:


> I liked Obama's comment on this mornings news saying there would be 'costs' for Russia.
> Yes I'm sure Putin is shitting himself. What costs is Obama speaking about?


WWIII? But I don't think Putin would be shitting himself in that case. His giant ego wouldn't let him.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

BREAKING NEWS ON THE COUP IN UKRAINE






Putin Asks Parliament to Approve Military Action in Ukraine

MOSCOW, March 1 (RIA Novosti) – *Russian President Vladimir Putin has requested approval from the country’s upper house of parliament to move armed forces into Ukraine,* according to the Kremlin’s press service.

The move comes after reports of large Russian troop movements in the southern Ukrainian peninsula of Crimea, and a week after the opposition swept to power in Kiev when President Viktor Yanukovych suddenly left the city. 

Putin, who has yet to speak publicly about the crisis in Ukraine, requested permission to use military force because of a threat to the lives of Russian citizens and danger posed to Russian military forces located in naval bases in Crimea, according to the Kremlin.

Russian troops will remain deployed until the “political-social situation in the country is normalized,” the Kremlin said.

The approval of the Federation Council is required to use Russian forces outside the country's boders.

Putin and members of the Russian government will attend a special session of the chamber in order to receive the approval, according to state-owned television channel Rossiya 24.

Putin will address the Federation Council as part of the deliberations, Rossiya 24 said.

Unidentified, heavily armed soldiers have been visible across Crimea since Thursday morning when gunmen stormed the country's parliament.

The recently appointed Prime Minister of Crimea Sergei Aksyonov said Saturday that troops from Russia’s Black Sea Fleet were already deployed across the peninsula to guard strategically important sites.


Russian Duma fed up with West's inaction and backing of Maidan Mob

Earlier on Saturday, the speaker of the Russian State Duma Council Valentina Matvienko said that the current circumstances in Ukraine make such a move possible. 

“It’s possible in this situation, complying with a request by the Crimean government, even to bring a limited contingent of our troops to ensure the safety of the Black Sea Fleet and the Russian citizens living on Crimean territory. The decision is for the president, the chief military commander, to make, of course. But today, taking the situation into account, even that variant can’t be excluded. We need to protect the people,” Matvienko said. 

The Russian government has so far been careful in its assessment of the new self-proclaimed Ukrainian government in Kiev. Matvienko said *the reason for that was **Russia counting on its Western partners, who vowed to guarantee the February 21 agreements between Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovich and the opposition. 
*
“*Russia did not interfere in the situation in Ukraine for a very long time and showed restraint*, assuming that the Western states, which became backers of the agreements, would see that strict compliance with the deal is observed,” she said. 

However, after “violent upheaval” took place in Ukraine, *the Western nations did not come up with “any reasonable measures or responses,”* Matvienko said. 

*Russia, in contrast, for a very long time has urged the situation to be resolved by lawful means*, and called for the anti-coup sentiments in Crimea and in eastern Ukraine to be heard, she said. 

*“Not seeing an adequate reaction from the West, we could no longer maintain status quo,”* the speaker concluded. 



Russian Parliamentarians Call on Putin to Act in Crimea

MOSCOW, March 1 (RIA Novosti) – *The leaders of Russia’s upper and lower houses of parliament called Saturday on President Vladimir Putin to stabilize the situation in Crimea and protect Russian citizens.
*
*The leader of Federation Council, Russia’s upper house*, said the use of military force in the former Soviet nation could be justified after the opposition swept into power in Kiev last weekend.

The partition of Ukraine has become increasingly likely in recent days as heavily armed men understood to be Russian soldiers have taken control of key facilities and blocked roads in Crimea.

*The State Duma, Russia’s lower house, released a similar statement Saturday that said must Putin bring the situation in Ukraine under control*.


----------



## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> If you think about it, it really isn't a silly comment.
> 
> The United States is constantly preaching about how it is for "democracry" and "freedom." If you look at Washington's actions just over the last two decades since the dissolution of the Soviet Union you can see its record of engineering regime changes in countries where the government is not to its liking.
> 
> ...


Of course west does that, of course it's hypocrisy, and of course it's a bad thing. I never denied any of those things. What was silly about the statement, however, is that it would be *typical to just the west*.

I'm sure Kim Jong-un supports bashing other leaders on the press, but when it comes to saying anything negative about him, it's a big no-no. I'm also pretty sure Politkovskaya would say the same about Russia, if only she could. And I'm not even going to touch the similar problems of countries such as China or Burma. *Those are also eastern countries.*


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Lawmakers allow Putin to use military in Ukraine

*KIEV, Ukraine (AP*) — *Russia's parliament granted President Vladimir Putin permission to use the country's military in Ukraine *and also recommended Saturday that Moscow's ambassador be recalled from Washington over comments made by President Barack Obama.

The *unanimous vote* in an emergency session formalized what Ukrainian officials described as an invasion of Russian troops in the strategic region of Crimea. *With pro-Russian protests breaking out in other parts of Ukraine, Moscow now could send its military elsewhere in Ukraine.*


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## TB Tapp (Oct 26, 2013)

May God grant the brave soldiers of the Russian Federation victory! May the revolting Tymoshenko woman - she who sold her soul to the degenerate west for thirty pieces of silver - be dragged to Moscow in chains! С нами Бог!


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Lawmakers allow Putin to use military in Ukraine
> 
> *KIEV, Ukraine (AP*) — *Russia's parliament granted President Vladimir Putin permission to use the country's military in Ukraine *and also recommended Saturday that Moscow's ambassador be recalled from Washington over comments made by President Barack Obama.
> 
> The *unanimous vote* in an emergency session formalized what Ukrainian officials described as an invasion of Russian troops in the strategic region of Crimea. *With pro-Russian protests breaking out in other parts of Ukraine, Moscow now could send its military elsewhere in Ukraine.*


So Russians just decide that they can interfere into foreign land just because they feel like it? I've seen it before. That's how every war started.


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> So Russians just decide that they can interfere into foreign land just because they feel like it? I've seen it before. That's how every war started.


Tomas, you're so full of it the whites of your eyes are turning brown!

At this point, I could care less what you or the other pro-insurgent, anti-Russian posters say. You are on the side of the fascist insurgency and will support it just like the US/EU no matter what. Since you and the rest of the West are going to bad mouth whatever Russia does, it may as well go in do what it has to do.

*FUCK THE MAIDAN MOB AND ITS WESTERN SUPPORTERS!*

*It's time for Russia to start* 
KICKING ASS AND TAKING NAMES!!


IF OBAMA WANTS SOME - COME GET SOME!!!

Tomas, we know how you treat your minorities in the Baltics. That Nazi mentality is still there just like in Western Ukraine. But, I guess that's OK, because you bend over for the US and EU. Apparently, that justifies everything.

- Mike

Смерть западным украйнским повстанцам и своим союзникам


----------



## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> Tomas, you're so full of it the whites of your eyes are turning brown!
> 
> At this point, I could care less what you or the *other pro-insurgent, anti-Russian posters* say. You are on the side of the fascist insurgency and will support it just like the US/EU no matter what. Since you and the rest of the West are going to bad mouth whatever Russia does, it may as well go in do what it has to do.


In case that was targeted at me, it's false by a large margin. Even before this thread got out of hand I said that I don't like the EU and I'll just add that I most certainly do not like the Obama government. Also, the only time I commented on the Ukraine situation was on the shooting of the alleged medic, and that is something I won't accept by the insurgents, the revolutionists or anyone else. *I haven't taken any sides whatsoever*.


By the way, it's quite nice of you to just ignore my previous post. Kind of reminds me of this old comment you posted..



Batko10 said:


> That's a typical western tactic-don't respond if your argument is weak. Just jump to another subject to deflect attention from the first argument.



*Are you demoting yourself to hideous western tactics here yourself, Mike?*


----------



## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Tomas started this topic because he felt there was little attention given to Eastern Europe in the news and now he is a "fascist"

There is more than reasons than "Russianphobia(spell?)", "pro-fascism" and "sucking up to the west" that people would be against Russia moving troops into Ukraine

When the USSR was swallowing up all nearby states they did so under the guise of "liberating" them from "fascists" and groups that were "targeting Russians" and then strip mined all of the resources and skilled labor for party interests and left the "liberated area" a poor third world agricultural and mass labor region with basically no support

The current Russian intervention looks very similar which naturally worries other former USSR regions that suffered under Soviet control and were just used as a buffer state full of military bases for a war that never happened. It does not help that the Russian government has been doing a lot of USSR glorification. Its like how some people look at the US 1950s and the "golden years" where there was a massive amount of social disorder and hatred underneath the surface. Its gotten to the point where video games and movies are getting banned for not portraying the Red army as heroes and war films are getting lukewarm responses for not being "patriotic enough"

People fear that if Russia intervenes in Ukraine they will leave troops to keep the peace and suddenly "radical pro-fascist" groups that are killing "ethic Russians" are going to start popping up all over eastern Europe and the Russian army is going to have to intervene over and over 

While many Eastern Europeans love Russia and want connections to the them, many other fear that they will become a Russian sub state where all their infrastructure will go to supporting Russia or the region will light up like the middle east turning the region into constant battles between Pro-Russian and Anti-Russian factions when some of the regions aren't even 20 years past their last civil war


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## Spittekauga (Jul 21, 2013)

Shit just got real, fuck! A war in Ukraine could spread, i can see it happening in the southern Europe-countries like Spain and Greece and maybe Hungary aswell, considering the big following for the nationalist-party, Jobbik there. 

War in Urkarine is serious business. Shit can hit the fan pretty quickly i believe.


----------



## elhijodelbodallas (Jan 30, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> Tomas, you're so full of it the whites of your eyes are turning brown!
> 
> At this point, I could care less what you or the other pro-insurgent, anti-Russian posters say. You are on the side of the fascist insurgency and will support it just like the US/EU no matter what. Since you and the rest of the West are going to bad mouth whatever Russia does, it may as well go in do what it has to do.
> 
> ...


What is your problem? Crazy rambling posts twice a day...


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> In case that was targeted at me, it's false by a large margin. Even before this thread got out of hand I said that I don't like the EU and I'll just add that I most certainly do not like the Obama government. Also, the only time I commented on the Ukraine situation was on the shooting of the alleged medic, and that is something I won't accept by the insurgents, the revolutionists or anyone else. *I haven't taken any sides whatsoever*.
> 
> 
> By the way, it's quite nice of you to just ignore my previous post. Kind of reminds me of this old comment you posted..
> ...


I wasn't refering to you at all. That statement was directed at a couple of Americans and Brits who have been posting snide remarks with a tacit intent to flame.

I'm not ignoring your question for a lack of an answer or to be rude. I "overlooked" it simply because I'm done wasting my breath on this thread debating what should be pretty obvious -
the U.S./E.U. engineered this horror and fanned the flames for months before the actual insurgency; any blood is on the hands of the insurgents - they started the riots and revolution, and they are the ones responsible for the death and destruction.

It would appear that I'm not the only one that is fed up with this US/EU/NATO bullying and hypocrisy. You can all blame Putin, but every single member of the Duma voted to use military force in Ukraine. That includes the small liberal and right wing parties as well as Russia's two largest parties - Putin's "United Russia Party" and Zyuganov's Communist Party.

It's about time that the US/EU/NATO bully got his nose bloodied. I seriously doubt that this will escalate into WW III. Bullies like the United States only go after those who will not fight back. Obama is probably in the toilet wiping his ass from the diarrhea caused by fright right now.

- Mike

Смерть западным украйнским повстанцам и своим союзникам!


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## Mountain Rushmore (Feb 8, 2013)

I had no idea Batko was a traitor to the Union. It's only Internet talk but that's kind of dispicable, IMO. Assuming Mike is from the US.

East Europe is not real of comfort. Someone explain why the United States cares to get involved please?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

[/URL][/IMG]
_Pro-Russian protesters wave Russian flags and hold a banner reading "Donetsk region is with Russia" during a rally in the industrial Ukrainian city of Donetsk on March 1, 2014 (AFP Photo / Alexander Khudoteply)
_

Ukraine’s Donetsk calls for referendum, votes to restore Russian’s official status

Published time: March 01, 2014 19:52 

*The City Council in the eastern city of Donetsk has refused to recognize Ukraine’s self-imposed government and called for a referendum on the region’s status. The council has made Russian alongside Ukrainian the official language in the region.
*
“Until all the legitimacy of the new laws approved by Verkhovna Rada [Ukrainian Parliament] is clarified, the City Council [of Donetsk] will take full responsibility for its territories,” said the document approved by Donetsk City Council during the special session of March, 1. The report comes from Ukraine-based Zerkalo Nedeli newspaper. 

*Donetsk is the capital of the coal-rich Donbass region in eastern Ukraine*. Beside Donetsk, a major economic, industrial and scientific center, Donbass includes Lughansk and Dnepropetrovsk regions. 

The Council called for a referendum on Donbass’s future, urging the local parliament to set the date immediately. The move is set to “*protect the citizens from possible violent actions on the behalf of radicalized nationalistic forces,*” the council said in a statement. 

In addition, *the members of the city council have voted to set up self-defense squads. 
*
Russian language has been re-introduced as an official language along with Ukrainian in the area where a plurality of its residents are ethnic Russians (48.15%) and Russian-speaking Ukrainians (46.65%). This decision came after the new power in Kiev abolished the minority languages law. 

Also, *the Donetsk authorities said they consider Russia a strategic partner. 
*
The council’s session was called as pro-Russian activists gathered in the center of Donetsk, demanding local authorities to hold a referendum on the future of the region. The protesters seized the regional administration building and hoisted the Russian flag above it. 

*Eastern Ukraine and Crimea are seeing massive pro-Russian demonstrations against the new self-proclaimed central government, with many government buildings being topped with Russian flags.*


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## Double L (Apr 14, 2010)

If there are segments of the country that support Russia, let them join Russia but if there are regions that want closer ties to the EU, then allow that too. However, Russian military involvement is completely uncalled for.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Double L said:


> If there are segments of the country that support Russia, let them join Russia but if there are regions that want closer ties to the EU, then allow that too. However, Russian military involvement is completely uncalled for.


Let's just let the Western Ukrainian fascists send the Maidan Mob to the East to shoot and kill those people, and destroy their cities with molotov cocktails and bombs.

At this point, Russian military involvement is not only called for, it is imperative. 

- Mike


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## Double L (Apr 14, 2010)

If the president had just listened to his people none of this would've happened.


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## TheJack (Mar 13, 2006)

Batko10 said:


> Let's just let the Western Ukrainian fascists send the Maidan Mob to the East to shoot and kill those people, and destroy their cities with molotov cocktails and bombs.
> 
> At this point, Russian military involvement is not only called for, it is imperative.
> 
> - Mike


Well, lets do the same thing Putin did with Syria, take it to the U.N. and have a vote...

unk2


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## Lady Eastwood (Jul 10, 2006)

Russia can go fuck itself, you'll get a war, but you wont get Ukraine, cunts.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Batko10 said:


> I wasn't refering to you at all. That statement was directed at a couple of Americans and Brits who have been posting snide remarks with a tacit intent to flame.
> 
> I'm not ignoring your question for a lack of an answer or to be rude. I "overlooked" it simply because I'm done wasting my breath on this thread debating what should be pretty obvious -
> the U.S./E.U. engineered this horror and fanned the flames for months before the actual insurgency; any blood is on the hands of the insurgents - they started the riots and revolution, and they are the ones responsible for the death and destruction.
> ...


This ain't fucking dodge ball. PEOPLE ARE GOING TO DIE

You don't go to war to "make a statement" or to "teach someone a lesson"

If that is why you support this than you are acting petty as fuck


----------



## Spanish Lariato (Jul 26, 2011)

Well, Russia is the head of an imperialist bloc but his actions are understandable. What would USA do if an orbit country suffered a fascist coup d'Etat that menaces a large USA population that lives there and the whole stability of the region?
NATO is so desperate to create a World conflict and they are gonna achieve it. We all know that in recession times war's business is the best economy enabler. First (well preceedeed by a list of Afghanistan, Vietnam, Italy, etc) it was Irak, then Lybia, later they are trying to destroy DPRK, Iran, Cuba, Belarus and Venezuela. They want to eliminate any possible dissidence from his criminal methods. But maybe this war will be more than they can chew.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

stevefox1200 said:


> This ain't fucking dodge ball. PEOPLE ARE GOING TO DIE
> 
> You don't go to war to "make a statement" or to "teach someone a lesson"
> 
> If that is why you support this than you are acting petty as fuck


People have died already thanks to the Maidan Mob and the fascist insurrection. 

This is not to teach a lesson or make a statement. It is to protect the Russian and Ukrainian people in the East and South of the country from the insurgent murderers in Kiev. Once the insurgents consolidate their forces you can be sure they will be sending their thugs east and south.

Only now they will meet Russian soldiers, not defenseless citizens.!

- Mike


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## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

The West talking about national sovereignty when it wanted to bomb Syria months ago. :ti 

The US EVER talking about national sovereignty when it violates a nation's sovereignty every single day. :ti


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## CupofCoffee (Apr 3, 2012)

This is all so fucking sickening. Yes, Putin is a bastard with little respect for democracy, but I really cannot say that people like the IMF cronies, Tymoshenko, Tyahnibok and all these Right Sector bandits (and yes, they are fascists - of the most vile, anti-semitic kind) evoke any sympathy. It's not about democracy, freedom or anything - it's about Russian and European imperialism (and to a large extent, German - Germany is Ukraine's second biggest trade partner and hugely interested in a further economic penetration of that country due to low wages and a large market). Regardless which side prevails in this conflict, the working man is going to get fucked. Cheers.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> People have died already thanks to the Maidan Mob and the fascist insurrection.
> 
> This is not to teach a lesson or make a statement. It is to protect the Russian and Ukrainian people in the East and South of the country from the insurgent murderers in Kiev. Once the insurgents consolidate their forces you can be sure they will be sending their thugs east and south.
> 
> ...


:ti You call Berkut troops and Titushkas (a street gang which sided tith the old government) 'defensless citizens'? What's wrong with you? Seriously.


----------



## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Batko10 said:


> People have died already thanks to the Maidan Mob and the fascist insurrection.
> 
> This is not to teach a lesson or make a statement. It is to protect the Russian and Ukrainian people in the East and South of the country from the insurgent murderers in Kiev. Once the insurgents consolidate their forces you can be sure they will be sending their thugs east and south.
> 
> ...


And then their thugs are going to go into neighboring countries and are going to launch attacks from there. They are going to go underground and hide in the population and do bombings and kill "traitors". They are going to gain foreign support which will give them money and support. Its really fucking easy to pile up martyrs when you are the rebels. 

What is Russia going to do? Follow them in other nations taking troops and occupy them? Kill random civilians on hunches? Russia is throwing its self into an Iraq situation and Puntin is too bullheaded thinking he can show off to the west to learn from other nation's mistakes. 

Russia is pumped with patriotism like the US was after 9/11 and is looking for a fight with anyone they think is going try to undermined them and they aren't ready for the bullshit of fighting an unconventional war.

The best (moral) thing Russia can do is open its boarders to refuges and provide finical support to the displaced but they won't do that because that would a financial burden and would add tons of people who need jobs, housing and support. Instead its far more convenient to turn their nation into a playground to show off their modern military to the world.

What is happening in Ukraine is tragic but the area is destabilized, there is shit you can do about it and more killing is not going to fix it. The best you can do is support your preferred side and hope they win but the second you in to break it up the side you are against becomes martyrs and the rebels become small hungry kids with rusty AKs being picked on by gunships. Their families will go to UN about how they were detained for being the third cousin of someone who might be a rebel. Photos of every civilian you kill will be posted online and people will curse your name and burn your flag. The area will light up and all the wealthy and intelligent will leave leaving the area full of fanatics and hardcore nationalists who will create governments with the sole goal of ridding the area of people they dislike with your occupying troops at the top of the list. 

I swear to God we never fucking learn form our mistakes. I think our natural urge of might makes right must be some type of instinct in our DNA as some of population control. I don't even blame governments. People in general are quick to put a bullet in the head of people they think who are responsible for their problems who are always, conveniently enough, different enough to be unrelatable but similar enough to be near by and for people to think should they have the same ethics but are just being "evil". It doesn't matter if the group that is targeted is rich or poor, black or white, religious or atheist etc. the public will always scream that this time is different and this time will empower and "free" you when all it does is spread more chaos.


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## GothicBohemian (May 26, 2012)

No matter which side one sits on, outside military involvement is nothing to applaud. This will lead nowhere positive. Russia will become stuck in a quagmire with Ukraine when they already have too much on their plate, other nations will begin openly declaring that they too have interests in a country that they’ll use as an arena for their quarrels with Russia, a whole new crop of martyrs will be created and ordinary people will have to live with all this chaos unfolding around them. 

I fail to see anything positive here. Certainly nothing worth cheering about.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

GothicBohemian said:


> No matter which side one sits on, outside military involvement is nothing to applaud. This will lead nowhere positive. Russia will become stuck in a quagmire with Ukraine when they already have too much on their plate, other nations will begin openly declaring that they too have interests in a country that they’ll use as an arena for their quarrels with Russia, a whole new crop of martyrs will be created and ordinary people will have to live with all this chaos unfolding around them.
> 
> I fail to see anything positive here. Certainly nothing worth cheering about.


True. But Batko doesn't understand that. He thinks that Russia has the right just to intrude other country's territory and do whatever they want there. He is FOR killing innocent people as long as it's the Russians killing someone.


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## TB Tapp (Oct 26, 2013)

I wish western nations would stop meddling in the affairs of East European nations. In the lead up to World War 2, Britain and France guaranteed Poland's independence. Neither Britain and France, mighty as they were, were in a position to prevent Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union from carving Poland up. And how did the war turn out? France endured the humiliation of having her country occupied while Britain had her cities bombed into rubble. The British economy was so distressed by the war over brave little Poland that rationing lasted into the 50's. The country they had gone to war over was made a part of the Eastern Bloc with a good chunk sliced off and transferred to the Belarus and Ukrainian SSRs. The British and French sacrificed their empires so that Poland would be a Russian satellite and not a German one. 
My point is, it is a fools errand for wealthy western countries to meddle in the affairs of East European countries like Ukraine. Germany got away with it when she recognized Croatia and Slovenia's independence from Yugoslavia in the early 90's, but Yugoslavia was not a nation of 150+ million people with ICBMs. Ask yourself, how would your quality of life be compromised if Ukraine was aligned with Russia instead of the EU? Not a bit, I reckon.


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## GothicBohemian (May 26, 2012)

I don’t especially care who they ally with, but I don’t want to see Ukraine become another Afghanistan. The world’s been there, done that, and seen the results. You’d think Russia and the US, of all countries, would remember how that turned out for them.

We humans are stupid.


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## Stax Classic (May 27, 2010)

Ukraine's main export is grain though, not opium, so not really the same thing


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## GothicBohemian (May 26, 2012)

It’s the damage done to the local population by becoming the setting for Russia /US conflict - and the unstable, economic and military sinkhole it became for those two countries - that I’m referring to, not exports or culture or any other factor. 

Any nation can be a perfectly lovely, ordinary place to live yet still be susceptible to falling into disorder once the population splits along political/ethnic/religious/what-have-you lines. As soon as their more powerful neighbours or allies arrive, which almost always draws in said outsider’s equally powerful political opponents, that decent is accelerated.


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## Stax Classic (May 27, 2010)

Probably, they should just split it into 2 or more countries if the segments are really that diverse.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Phillip J. Dick said:


> Probably, they should just split it into 2 or more countries if the segments are really that diverse.


I think it would be the best thing for both sides. The west can side with Russia if they want or create their own country and the east can join the EU if they want to.


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## GothicBohemian (May 26, 2012)

I wouldn’t be too shocked if that is what happens. It’s not optimal, but if could save everyone involved decades of grief.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> True. But Batko doesn't understand that. He thinks that Russia has the right just to intrude other country's territory and do whatever they want there. He is FOR killing innocent people as long as it's the Russians killing someone.


No, Tomas. I believe Russia has the right to protect the Russians and Ukrainians in the East and South from being killed by your fascist insurgents. 

They have alot more right to send in troops to protect their own people than the United States did when it openly invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, and bombed Libya and Serbia into oblivion. And, that was while they were engineering regime changes in myriad countries. 

The U.S. and NATO are the ones who have set the example since the end of the Cold War. 

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> :ti You call Berkut troops and Titushkas (a street gang which sided tith the old government) 'defensless citizens'? What's wrong with you? Seriously.


What's wrong with you? What Berkut troops are in East and South Ukraine to protect the people there from your insurgent thugs??? 

- Mike


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## Stax Classic (May 27, 2010)

The Cold War never ended, Putin just proves it


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

Russia is just re-asserting herself. What, you thought the post-USSR hangover was going to last forever? The bear is awake. There's this myth that Russia is still stuck in 1994 and is economically redundant. That's not true.

Russia produces 1,000 tons of platinum a month, they have vast reserves of it. They produce a lot of cobalt and have hundreds of tons of gold. They're among the top three leading oil producers and make a killing in arms exports. People say 'sanctions for Russia!'. Yeah lets see how well that works out. They'll cut off the gas to Europe and it'll affect Europe 100 times more than it affect Russia.

They may be rough around the edges but they are a force to be reckoned with and Putin is smarter than most leaders in the West.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Pro-Russian Demonstrations in Kharkov, Ukraine 




_The *PEOPLE* do *NOT* want to be part of the Maidan Mob. Fascists beaten in Kharkov._ 

Ukrainian Troops in Crimea Side with Pro-Russia Forces 

SIMFEROPOL, March 2 (RIA Novosti) – *Ukrainian servicemen stationed in Crimea are leaving en masse their military units *and handing over weaponry and arsenals to local pro-Russia authorities and militia, a RIA Novosti correspondent reported Sunday.

Putin, who is the Supreme Commander of the Russian Armed Forces, has not yet ordered the deployment of a “limited military contingent” in Ukraine, but said in telephone conversations with UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon and US President Barack Obama early on Sunday that *Moscow reserved the right to protect its own interests and those of Russian speakers in the event of violence breaking out in eastern Ukraine and Crimea.
*
There is already a substantial Russian military presence in southern Ukraine, courtesy of the leased Black Sea Fleet naval base in the Crimean Peninsula.

Large movements of Russian troops have been reported around the peninsula, which is in defiance of express instructions from Ukrainian authorities this week for Russian soldiers to remain confined to their quarters.

*Meanwhile, thousands of pro-Moscow protesters staged a number of rallies in eastern Ukraine on Saturday backing the anti-Kiev stance of the Crimean population and calling for Russia to defend them as well.
*


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Pro-Russian Demonstrations in Kharkov, Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So the Russians can beat Ukrainians, but not vice versa? All your posts are so one-sided. So what that there are pro-Russian protests? So there were pro-Ukrainian protests. So what that Ukrainian troops sided with Russians? So did the Ukrainian troops in Kiev. What do you want to say by this post?


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> So the Russians can beat Ukrainians, but not vice versa? All your posts are so one-sided. So what that there are pro-Russian protests? So there were pro-Ukrainian protests. So what that Ukrainian troops sided with Russians? So did the Ukrainian troops in Kiev. What do you want to say by this post?


I'm not trying to say anything. I'm just posting on breaking events. As I said previously, I'm done arguing about this. *Everyone on here has made up their mind one way or the other*. There's no sense in arguing.

However, it is apparent that *fascists don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot! *

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> I'm not trying to say anything. I'm just posting on breaking events. As I said previously, I'm done arguing about this. *Everyone on here has made up their mind one way or the other*. There's no sense in arguing.
> 
> However, it is apparent that *fascists don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot! *
> 
> - Mike


In this case, communists are no better than nazis.


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

If we're posting news.

SIMFEROPOL, Ukraine (AP) — Russian troops took over the strategic Crimean peninsula Saturday without firing a shot. The newly installed government in Kiev was powerless to react, and despite calls by U.S. President Barack Obama for Russia to pull back its forces, Western governments had few options to counter Russia's military moves.

Russian President Vladimir Putin sought and quickly got his parliament's approval to use its military to protect Russia's interests across Ukraine. But while sometimes-violent pro-Russian protests broke out Saturday in a number of Russian-speaking regions of eastern Ukraine, Moscow's immediate focus appeared to be Crimea.

Tensions increased when Ukraine's acting president, Oleksandr Turchynov, made a late night announcement that he had ordered the country's armed forces to be at full readiness because of the threat of "potential aggression."

Speaking live on Ukrainian TV, Turchynov said he had also ordered stepped up security at nuclear power plants, airports and other strategic infrastructure.

Ignoring President Barack Obama's warning Friday that "there will be costs" if Russia intervenes militarily, Putin sharply raised the stakes in the conflict over Ukraine's future evoking memories of Cold War brinkmanship.

After Russia's parliament approved Putin's motion, U.S. officials held a high-level meeting at the White House to review Russia's military moves in Ukraine. The White House said Obama spoke with Putin by telephone for 90 minutes and expressed his "deep concern" about "Russia's clear violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity."

Read full story: http://news.yahoo.com/russian-troops-over-ukraines-crimea-region-200052097.html


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

2 March 2014, 14:24

Western mercenaries fought in Maidan protests – witness










*Quite a few mercenaries from the United States, Germany, Turkey, Poland and other countries formed part of the Euromaidan activists and militants, said one such activist, arrested by Russian border-guards in Russia’s Bryansk Region, who said his name is Vladislav*.

He said in an interview with the Russia-24 TV channel on Sunday that the foreigners in question had come to Kiev’s Independence Square wearing military uniform, some were even armed.

“They came in wearing similar military uniforms. I often saw them scheming with captains of self-defense groups and signing some papers. I can even tell you their approximate numbers. There were about *60 Americans*. *Germans totalled some 40 or 50 men*. There were also *Poles*, *Turks* and many others,” the arrested man said.

When speaking of the current situation on Kiev’s Maidan, the arrested said that the people in the square are wicked, drugged and/or drunk etc., and have nothing to do.

The young Russian, who said he’d gone to Kiev as a tourist in quest of adventures also mentioned the Euromaidan militants’ atrocious treatment of people. *The Right Sector commanders beat to a pulp those who refused to take orders from them*. But some *people were just taken to a nearby basement and shot in the head*, Vladislav said.

He added that *Right-Sector militants are now busy looting homes and apartments of disgraced politicians*. Some are said to be looking for property ownership certificates, selling abandoned cars and seizing estates that belonged to the deposed Party of Regions’ lawmakers. Vladislav also said that looting militants were going to spend the cash on black-market firearms.

The Russian mercenary fled Kiev after a quarrel with one such commander when he decided not to tempt fate any longer. 

*Russian police are currently investigating the story of the suspected “mercenary”.* Vladislav may face up to eight years in jail for his foreign escapade.

Meanwhile, Maidan mercenaries are getting more and more out of hand, with some of them uploading videos to YouTube where they threaten the current Turchynov regime with violence. In one of such infamous video tapes, a Chechen-mercenary-turned-Maidan-activist Alexander Musychko, also known as Sasha Bilyi, has vowed revenge on Ukraine’s acting Interior Minister Arsen Avakov.

Voice of Russia, Interfax, Mir 24


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## Oakue (Jul 16, 2012)

I believe Russia will take the Eastern part of Ukraine, and probably outright annex it. It would make it easier to control for stabilization than installing a puppet government and splitting the country in two. What becomes of the Western part is much more in question. If the Western part remains an independent country, it likely joins the EU, and this still presents problems for Russia, as even with the new territorial boundaries there would still be an EU Ukraine on their new borders.

The major issue with this, and frankly the major overall issue Russia has always had with a pro West and EU joined Ukraine is the fact that a gas pipeline near Kiev has long been the main transit route for Russia's gas exports to western Europe. It is essential for Russia to either control this or have a puppet government in charge to help control it. Losing it a pro West government or EU backed government is a significant problem for them.

So as a result, what becomes of Kiev and Western Ukraine is of great question. An all out invasion and annexation of the entire country? Unlikely. But then what? They will not tolerate a pro West government, and put their gas pipeline in jeopardy.


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## GothicBohemian (May 26, 2012)

I half forgot about the pipeline. That’s going to muck things up even further. There’s no chance Russia want to risk lose control of something as economically and strategically important as that, and you can be sure Western interests are aware of the window now open to gain influence over a portion of it for themselves if they can hold enough regional support to the EU there. This has potential to get much, much uglier.


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## Stax Classic (May 27, 2010)

That just sounds like Russian propaganda to be fair Batko :draper2

Why can't they just build a pipeline diversion through Eastern Ukraine?


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## GothicBohemian (May 26, 2012)

They could, but that takes time and money. The financial impact would be worsened because they have pre-existing contracts for gas exports to fill. Even more troubling, once a pipeline falls in ‘enemy’ hands, there’s a danger of tampering.

Oh, and all this would be have to begin while they attempt to subdue an uprising and establish a new government.

EDIT: And I’m not sure how much leeway exists for re-routing the pipeline to begin with. They are likely using the optimal design now and have to consider how much inconvenience and increased cost their customers are willing to deal with (which may be influenced by where they align politically).


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Phillip J. Dick said:


> *That just sounds like Russian propaganda to be fair Batko* :draper2
> 
> Why can't they just build a pipeline diversion through Eastern Ukraine?


It very well could be. But, knowing the vile nature of the insurgent scum in Kiev and the hypocritical phonies in Washington, I wouldn't dismiss the article out of hand.

I'm not an engineer, but based on the map below building a pipeline diversion to Belarus looks feasible. However, this is not in Ukraine's interests. They owe billions to Russia for gas already consumed and not paid for. I wonder if Russia would even bother to sell them any natural gas after a pipeline diversion???








[/URL][/IMG]]


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## Oakue (Jul 16, 2012)

I believe this has the potential to be a major mistake by Putin, and he doesn't make many bad judgments in geopoltiics. The Crimean Tatar minority group, has already started forming its own self-defense forces, also the Ukrainian military is not the Georgian military, is not the Afghan insurgents, and is not the old Iraq military either. They are a relatively strong military unit for their position in the world. Also, if he expands further you can count on armed ethnic Ukrainian militias engaging in guerrilla warfare against the Russians. Of course, you must also factor in the potential for violence between ethnic Russians and ethnic Ukrainians throughout the country, some of which has already started to show itself. That would equal an Ukrainian civil war with the Russian military in the middle, with the Russian military also having to fight off guerrilla militias as well as whatever would be left of the Ukranian military, some of which would join the guerrilla militias.

It is a bloody quagmire in the making for Russia, which already is in the middle of a stagnant economy in their own country. Putin is a shrewd individual, but he is not going to waltz through Ukraine without any long term resistance against his military.


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## GothicBohemian (May 26, 2012)

^ Pretty much this. Russia is stepping into a mess – and there are obvious motives, so wise or not, I think their involvement was inevitable – but there’s a real danger of Ukraine exploding to their detriment as well as that of the Ukrainian people. 


That Russia won't be the sole foreign military in that country also seems depressingly inevitable to me.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

New head of Ukraine's navy defects in Crimea








[/URL][/IMG]
_Admiral Berezovsky read out his oath in Sevastopol alongside Crimea's pro-Russian leader, Sergiy Aksyonov_

March 2 (BBC) - *The newly appointed head of Ukraine's navy has sworn allegiance to the Crimea region*, in the presence of its unrecognised pro-Russian leader. 

Rear Admiral Denys Berezovsky was only made head of the navy on Saturday, as the government in Kiev reacted to the threat of Russian invasion.

Russia's troops have been consolidating their hold on Crimea, which is home to its Black Sea Fleet. 

Admiral Berezovsky appeared in Sevastopol before cameras alongside Sergiy Aksyonov, the pro-Russian politician elected by Crimea's regional parliament as local prime minister.

*Mr Aksyonov announced he had given orders to Ukrainian naval forces on the peninsula to disregard any orders from the "self-proclaimed" authorities in Kiev.
*
Sunday, he said, would go down in history as the birthday of the "navy of the autonomous republic of Crimea".

*The admiral then pledged to "strictly obey the orders of the supreme commander of the autonomous republic of Crimea" and "defend the lives and freedom" of Crimea's people. 
*


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Ukrainian Navy flagship takes Russia’s side








[/URL][/IMG]
_Ukraine's Naval flagship, Hetman Sahaidachny frigat, has refused orders from the insurgent government in Kiev and joined Russia_.

*Ukraine’s Navy flagship, the Hetman Sahaidachny frigate, has reportedly refused to follow orders from Kiev, and come over to Russia’s side and is returning home after taking part in NATO operation in the Gulf of Aden flying the Russian naval flag*.

There has been conflicting information on where exactly the vessel is, but a Russian senator has confirmed to Izvestia daily that the frigate defected to the Russian side. 

“Ukraine’s Navy flagship the Hetman Sahaidachny has come over to our side today. *It has hung out the St Andrew’s flag*,” Senator Igor Morozov, a member of the committee on the international affairs, told Izvestia daily. 

He said the flagship is on its way back to the Black Sea after drills in the Mediterranean. “*The crew has fulfilled the order by the chief commander of Ukraine’s armed forces Viktor Yanukovich*,” he added. 

The move comes after the Navy command resigned Friday. Self-appointed President Aleksandr Turchinov made Rear Admiral Denis Berezovsky the new Navy Chief, a statement published on the President’s website Saturday said. 

Arseniy Yatsenyuk, the Prime Minister of Ukraine had earlier asked his Turkish counterpart Recep Tayyip Erdogan not to let the frigate through the Bosporus strait, according to the Kiev Times. *The ship captain and the head of Ukraine’s contingent in the operation, Rear Admiral Andrey Tarasov disobeyed orders from Kiev. 
*
The Hetman Sahaidachny returns to Sevastopol, Crimea after taking part in a joint counter-piracy operation with NATO and the EU off the Horn of Africa, reported UNN on Friday, citing Ukraine’s Defense Ministry. On February 26, after crossing the Suez Canal, the ship entered the Mediterranean Sea and was expected to be in Sevastopol in early March.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

INSURGENT UKRAINE'S MILITARY BEGINS TO UNWRAVEL -

HEAD OF UKRAINIAN NAVY, REAR-ADMIRAL BEREZOVSKY, TAKES OATH OF ALLEGIANCE TO CRIMEA


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## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

Saw this on another forum, thought i'd share for a chuckle:


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## Doc (Oct 4, 2010)

So I'm curious. What does the average American think when Obama and Kerry are walking around dishing out empty threats to Putin. Do they realise at its closest point Russia is only 80KM away from America? Does the average American even know where Ukraine is on the map?

Obama is planning a false flag as we speak. Just you wait. And his overall loss to Putin will be a magical thing to see.


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## InTheAirTonight (Jan 1, 2014)

Meh, this is just manufactured controversy by the commies to make themselves look like 10,000 times more relevant than they really are. You know Russia and Ukraine will always be in cahoots with each other.


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## Oakue (Jul 16, 2012)

Doc said:


> So I'm curious. What does the average American think when Obama and Kerry are walking around dishing out empty threats to Putin. Do they realise at its closest point Russia is only 80KM away from America? Does the average American even know where Ukraine is on the map?
> 
> Obama is planning a false flag as we speak. Just you wait. And his overall loss to Putin will be a magical thing to see.


90% of the Cold War bases were moved from Western and Central Europe to the middle east in 2001-2003. So American military forces have no way to get at Russia from Europe. So as a result, are you suggesting Obama and the American intelligence agencies are planning a false flag operation so that they can move all of their forces from the middle east to Alaska, to launch a military invasion of Siberia, with a military force trained and equipped for desert warfare over the last 13 years? And by the way an invasion of land that is on a partial border of China?

So, you're suggesting this absurdity and cloak it in a sarcastic post about insulting American intelligence. That's a tad ironic.


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## Doc (Oct 4, 2010)

I wasn't insulting anyone at all. If you took it that way that isn't my problem. 
Question, what the fuck has anything happening in Ukraine got to do with the U.S.? Everything Putin has said is actually right. A properly elected leader was overthrown illegally and he's obviously concerned for his navy fleet in the black sea. Let Ukraine split in two if that's what the people want.


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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

As an American, Obama has no room to make any threats to Putin and Russia. Putin laughed right at Obama's face and Obama is just going to sit down and be the little bitch he is. :lol


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## Gandhi (Sep 15, 2012)

Doc said:


> I wasn't insulting anyone at all. If you took it that way that isn't my problem.
> Question, what the fuck has anything happening in Ukraine got to do with the U.S.? Everything Putin has said is actually right. A properly elected leader was overthrown illegally and he's obviously concerned for his navy fleet in the black sea. *Let Ukraine split in two if that's what the people want.*


This is what will probably happen.


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## Oakue (Jul 16, 2012)

Doc said:


> I wasn't insulting anyone at all. If you took it that way that isn't my problem.
> Question, what the fuck has anything happening in Ukraine got to do with the U.S.? Everything Putin has said is actually right. A properly elected leader was overthrown illegally and he's obviously concerned for his navy fleet in the black sea. Let Ukraine split in two if that's what the people want.


It of course doesn't have anything to do with America, but it doesn't have anything to do with Russia either. Ukraine like many other smaller countries from histories past is stuck in the middle of a much larger geopolitical game between two larger economies and militaries. As a result a proxy war is fought over a random smaller land in the middle. In this case U.S/EU on one side and Russia/Asia on the other.

Ukraine being partitioned in two different countries is not as easy as it sounds either. The important gas pipeline Russia needs is in Kiev. And if the area of Western Ukraine is spit into it's own country it will join the EU, so then that gas pipeline will be under EU control. Putin will not tolerate that. I don't know what the endgame is here.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

The sad thing is not very many people give a fuck about Ukraine

People just want to see Russia "teach the West a lesson" or for the west to put "Russia in its place"

we would be having the same discussion with the same points if they were arguing over Disneyland or Monster Island


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Russia Hosts Rallies in Support of Compatriots in Ukraine








[/URL][/IMG]
_"CRIMEA, WE ARE WITH YOU!"_

MOSCOW, March 2 (RIA Novosti) – Thousands of people in Russia’s two largest cities on Sunday took part in rallies in support of the Russian-speaking population in Ukraine amid the deepening political crisis in the former Soviet state.

Some *20,000 **people* participated in a march downtown *Moscow*, carrying Russian flags and patriotic slogans, according to local police.

The action was called by the ruling United Russia party and authorized by the Moscow authorities.

The demonstrators expressed their solidarity with the Ukrainian people in “turbulent times.”

“We want to assure our compatriots in Ukraine that we will not abandon them in trouble,” Andrei Bocharov, head of the executive committee of the All-Russia Popular Front, told reporters during the march.

A similar action took place earlier on Sunday in *St. Petersburg*. The event gathered around *15,000 people*, local authorities reported.


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## nikola123 (Apr 1, 2012)




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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

THE FINAL SOLUTION FOR UKRAINE ACCORDING TO THE WESTERN UKRAINIAN INSURGENTS








[/URL][/IMG]
"We are against the Russian people in the Crimea. *Because the Russian will never start to glorify Bandera *(_i.e. leader of Ukrainian Insurgent Army that fought for the Nazis_), *respect our Greek-Catholic faith* (_i.e., Uniate Catholic Church which is centered in Western Ukraine_), *insurgent history, and language"*.

"The Russian will always love and respect Russia. It is impossible to assimilate him. This means that for the blossoming of Ukraine the Russian should be destroyed or driven out of Crimea. *Let it be better completely TATAR"*. 

*DMITRY YAROSH
LEADER OF "RIGHT SECTOR"*


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

DOUBLE STANDARDS LOOK LIKE THIS:








[/URL][/IMG]

LEFT: SEVASTOPOL - AGGRESSIVE SEPARATISTS

RIGHT: KIEV - PEACEFUL PROTESTORS


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

US concedes Russia has control of Crimea and seeks to contain Putin

The US conceded on Sunday that *Moscow had “complete operational control of the Crimean peninsula”* and announced that the secretary of state, John Kerry, will fly to Kiev in an attempt to halt a further Russian advance into Ukraine.

Senior US officials dismissed claims that Washington is incapable of exerting influence on the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, but were forced to admit that *Crimea had been successfully invaded by 6,000 airborne and ground troops* in what could be the *start of a wider invasion*.

Although President Barack Obama’s administration called for Putin to withdraw troops to Russian military bases on the peninsula, its objective appeared to have shifted to using political and economic threats to prevent any further military incursion.

Earlier on Sunday, Kerry told CBS leading western nations were prepared to enact economic sanctions against Russia over what he called an “incredible act of aggression”.

“*You just don’t in the 21st century behave in 19th-century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pretext*,” Kerry said. “It is really a stunning, wilful choice by President Putin to invade another country. Russia is in violation of the sovereignty of Ukraine. Russia is in violation of its international obligations.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/02/us-russia-crimea-ukraine-putin

Did this one Batko-style.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

From Kabul to Kiev, American meddling wreaking havoc








[/URL][/IMG]
_A handout picture released on December 10, 2013 by Ukrainian Union Opposition press services shows US Assistant secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs Victoria Nuland (R) distributing cakes to riot policemen on the Independence Square in Kiev on December 10, 2013. (AFP Photo)
_
*by ROBERT BRIDGE*

_Robert Bridge has worked as a journalist in Russia since 1998. Formerly the editor-in-chief of The Moscow News, Bridge is the author of the book, “Midnight in the American Empire_.” 

*With hypocrisy befitting a hyper power,* US President Obama expressed “deep concern” over Russia’s decision to send troops into Crimea, calling it a “violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity. . . and breach of international law.”

In a 90-minute conversation described as tense, Obama and Russia’s president, Vladimir Putin, exchanged views on the crisis in Ukraine, where the country’s legitimate leader, Viktor Yanukovich, was ousted from power by violent street protests. 

Obama reportedly warned Putin that Russia’s refusal to order the Russian soldiers back to their bases would result in the United States sitting on the sidelines of the upcoming G8 summit in Sochi, Russia, scheduled for June, as well as “greater political and economic isolation.” 

Although Obama’s talk tough was little more than tossing raw meat to the hawks in the Republican Party, diseased beyond recognition by Neo-Con ideology, *his comments nevertheless betrayed a breathless amount of hypocrisy*. 

After all, *Washington wrote the book on violating the territorial integrity of sovereign states with its 2003 invasion of Iraq*, which was wrongly accused of harboring weapons of mass destruction. Urgent pleas on the part of UN weapons inspectors, not to mention worldwide anti-war protests, fell on deaf ears in Washington as intelligence-challenged leaders dropped smart bombs on Baghdad. 

*Blamed on a case of “bad intelligence” – oops! – hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have been killed over the past decade*, while the country remains a basket case of ongoing sectarian violence and regular suicide bombings: a phenomenon completely unknown to Iraqis when the dictator Saddam Hussein was in charge. 

Washington’s war-on-terror train continued chugging along its iron track, even after the Nobel Peace Prize winner Barack Obama relieved Bush of his imperial command. 

Today, Obama’s “hope and change” campaign promises *notwithstanding, Guantanamo Bay detention facility, which Amnesty International has dubbed, “the GULAG of our times,*” remains open for business, while Washington’s drone diplomacy continues to destroy America’s image in faraway places like Yemen and Pakistan. 

But even the US’s closest allies are sick and tired of the extra-judicial wave of serial killings. Just last month, the European Parliament voted by a majority of 534 to 49 MEPs to support a resolution that says “EU member states should strictly refrain from participating in or facilitating extrajudicial targeted killings, for instance by sharing relevant information with countries such as the US." 

Finally, during the Libyan civil war of 2011, US-led NATO forces worked on the side of the rebels, many of whom were known radical Islamists, to hunt down Muammar Gaddafi. The Libyan leader was eventually killed at the hands of a lynch mob. *So much for planting the seeds of democracy. 
*
As much as Washington may try to paint Moscow’s actions in Crimea as some sort of brazen military expedition, *Russia’s actions in Ukraine cannot be placed in the same category as Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya, for example, where US-led military operations in those hotspots have led to disastrous outcomes. 
*
Russia and Ukraine signed an agreement that gives Russia’s Black Sea Fleet basing rights in Crimea until 2042, so to call the deployment of troops to Ukraine a “Russian invasion” – as some Western media are branding it - is clearly wide of the mark. *Protecting the lives of Russian citizens at a time when Kiev is clearly not capable of securing the peace is no invasion*. 

Russia’s large ethnic community in Crimea has reacted with alarm to last month’s violent street protests, fueled by a Western-backed opposition movement made up of an unpredictable blend of ultra-nationalists and, some believe, even worse. 

Uncertainty over the political disposition of the Ukrainian opposition provoked a warning from Rabbi Moshe Reuven Azman, who last month called on Kiev's Jews to leave the Ukrainian capital and even the country if possible, Israeli daily Maariv reported. 

"I told my congregation to leave the city center or the city all together and if possible the country too," Rabbi Azman told Maariv. "I don't want to tempt fate," he added, "but *there are constant warnings concerning intentions to attack Jewish institutions." 
*
For some readers, all this may sound disturbingly familiar.* In countries where Western governments are working to prop up opposition movements to advance their geopolitical ambitions – the spread of NATO forces eastward not least among them – the world is witnessing the outgrowth of potentially dangerous political forces*. 

The heedless rush to play power politics for nothing more than geopolitical advantage was exemplified by State Department official Victoria Nuland’s taped conversation with the US Ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt, where her colorful choice of language was not the most shocking thing. 

"*That would be great I think to help glue this thing and have the UN glue it and you know, f**k the EU," she said. 
*
"We've got to do something to make it stick together, because you can be pretty sure that if it does start to gain altitude the Russians will be working behind the scenes to try to torpedo it," Pyatt replied. 

The most disturbing part of the talk, however, was when Nuland suggested that Klitschko, the former boxing champ turned leader of the pro-European ‘Punch’ party, is not destined for a long political career in Washington’s view. 

"I don't think Klitsch should go into the government," she reportedly said. 

*This tendency of Washington playing God in the affairs of sovereign states, revealed by Nuland's comment, has proven itself to be a destabilizing factor from Kabul to Kiev*. 

_Robert Bridge is the author of the book, Midnight in the American Empire, which discusses the dangerous consequences of extreme corporate power in the United States. It is available in PDF form here. 

The statements, views and opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of RT.
_


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

LOL at 'Washington playing God'. Russia just invaded a foreign country and took control of a foreign land and Washington is playing God here.


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## Mountain Rushmore (Feb 8, 2013)

Thank god we have John Kerry in the SOS position. Putin is a lot smarter than Obama,


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## TB Tapp (Oct 26, 2013)

Putin should stop, Obama might jump off a bridge like that Tyler Clementi kid a few years ago. :$


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

There's one thing I till don't understand. What is ANYONE'S business in this situation? What business does America have in Ukraine? And what the hell is Russia's business in Ukraine? It's Ukraine's internal problems and nobody else should get involved.


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## animus (Feb 20, 2011)

TomasThunder619 said:


> There's one thing I till don't understand. What is ANYONE'S business in this situation? What business does America have in Ukraine? And what the hell is Russia's business in Ukraine? It's Ukraine's internal problems and nobody else should get involved.


Strategic oil and natural gas pipelines.


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## Doc (Oct 4, 2010)

Ah yes how could we all forget America's invasion of Iraq. Hypocrisy at its finest.


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## Oakue (Jul 16, 2012)

animus said:


> Strategic oil and natural gas pipelines.


Yup.

America wants a pro West/EU government in Kiev controlling the gas pipeline and Russia wants pro Russian/anti EU government in Kiev controlling the gas pipeline and Ukraine is stuck in the middle. Much like all the ridiculous proxy wars fought during the Cold War that had nothing to do with American and/or the Soviet Union here we are again.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*ENTIRE UKRAINIAN AIRFORCE DIVISION WITH 800 MEN & 50 WARPLANES SWITCHES SIDES*


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*NATO COUNTRIES UNLEASHED ULTRA-NATIONALIST FORCES ON UKRAINE*

*UKRAINIAN NAZI INSURGENTS CALL ON WANTED CHECHEN TERRORIST FOR ASSISTANCE*


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

NEEDS MORE NAZIS 

NEEDS MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

At this rate, words propaganda and nazi will never sound like real words to me again.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

3 SOUTHERN UKRAINIAN REGIONS WANT TO JOIN WITH CRIMEA TO FORM AN AUTONOMOUS REPUBLIC








[/URL][/IMG]
_Circled in blue Mikolayev, Kherson, Odessa, and Crimea want to join together to form an autonomous republic_.

SIMFEROPOL, March 4 (RIA Novosti) – A senior Crimean lawmaker said on Monday that representatives of *three southern Ukrainian administrative capitals expressed willingness to become a part of the autonomous republic if its autonomy is broadened in a referendum*.

Deputy speaker of Crimea’s Supreme Council Serhiy Tsekov said Crimean authorities had received calls from “representatives of local administrative bodies” in *Mykolaiv, Kherson and Odessa*.

“*They think that they should be together with Crimea*,” he said.

Ukraine’s mainly ethnic Russian-populated region of Crimea is now at the center of the ongoing crisis in the country as pro-Russia groups move to distance themselves from a reformed national parliament that ousted President Viktor Yanukovych a week ago.

The Crimean parliament voted last week to hold a referendum on greater autonomy on March 30.


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## Oakue (Jul 16, 2012)

Oh boy.

This is how horrible civil wars start.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Oakue said:


> Oh boy.
> 
> This is how horrible civil wars start.


*It already started *when the ultra-nationalist insurgents in Kiev toppled the duly elected government and installed what amounts to a revolutionary council.

The ironic part is that the Western Ukrainian ultra-nationalists who claim to be staunch Ukrainians and want the best for Ukraine started what is surely going to result in the complete collapse and break up of the country.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

I would rather Ukraine split up into two countries, than be annexed by Russia or anyone else.


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## elhijodelbodallas (Jan 30, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> *It already started *when the ultra-nationalist insurgents in Kiev toppled the duly elected government and installed what amounts to a revolutionary council.
> 
> The ironic part is that the Western Ukrainian ultra-nationalists who claim to be staunch Ukrainians and want the best for Ukraine started what is surely going to result in the complete collapse and break up of the country.
> 
> - Mike


LOL as if all the people in the riots are right wing ultra-nationalists. Are people still replying to your insane rants?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

5,500 Ukrainian Soldiers Defect to Serve an Independent Crimea



MOSCOW, March 4 (RIA Novosti) – *More than 5,500 soldiers have defected from Ukraine’s military to serve the autonomous republic of Crimea, *the region’s newly appointed leader said.

Sergei Aksyonov, named prime minister last week in a local parliamentary vote, said Tuesday that talks with unit commanders led to the defections of soldiers to join an independent Crimean military.

“*Of the 34 Ukrainian military units stationed in Crimea, 23 have defected,” *a local government representative told RIA Novosti on Tuesday.

Crimea, a majority ethnic Russian peninsula in southeastern Ukraine, was seized by Russian-aligned troops in recent days following the overthrow of the pro-Russian government in Kiev by the erstwhile, Western-leaning opposition.

*The regional leadership has announced that it will consider a referendum to secede from Ukraine on March 30.
*
Troops under apparent Russian command, many of them traveling in military trucks and armored personnel carriers, have deployed widely around Crimea, as attested by numerous eyewitness accounts from reporters on the ground.

The forces have surrounded Ukrainian military installations and demanded soldiers inside lay down their arms.

Russian President Vladimir Putin on Tuesday denied such a deployment had taken place, however, insisting the troops were part of “local militias.”

Neither the Ukrainian national government nor independent sources have yet confirmed the defection figures.

*A Crimean government spokesman said the defections included troops stationed at Sevastopol’s Belbek Airport and three air defense regiments that operate S-300 surface-to-air missile systems.
*
S-300 systems, highly effective in shooting down most modern aircraft, would greatly increase the risk to planes conducting unauthorized overflights of Crimean airspace.

A source inside Ukraine’s naval headquarters told RIA Novosti Tuesday that some *50 officers had been prevented from leaving the building out of fears that they intended to defect to the Crimean military.
*
*Rear Admiral Denis Berezovsky, whom the interim government in Kiev appointed head of Ukraine’s national navy on March 1, swore allegiance to Crimea over the weekend*.

*He will head the region’s independent navy*, according to Prime Minister Aksyonov, who also said Crimea will have its own defense ministry to oversee local troops.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Crimea Rejects Talks with Ukraine Leadership

10:23 05/03/2014

MOSCOW, March 5 (RIA Novosti) – The recently appointed head of the southern Ukrainian republic of Crimea says his government refuses to negotiate with newly installed central authorities in the capital, Kiev.

“*We don’t consider this government that proposes talks to us to be legitimate, that is the main issue,*” Crimean Prime Minister Sergei Aksyonov told Latvian radio station Baltcom.

Crimea, a peninsula of some 2 million people, has with ample support from Russia resisted the authority of the leadership that came to power last month after the ouster of President Viktor Yanukovych, which followed months of mainly peaceful protests in Kiev. *Russian President Vladimir Putin this week described the current Ukrainian government as illegitimate, in effect bolstering the Crimean government’s position.
*
*Aksyonov has requested that Moscow provide security assistance *in the largely ethnic Russian-populated Crimean Peninsula amid oft-aired concerns the region could come under attack.

*Crimea plans to hold a vote this month on the future status of the peninsula, with greater autonomy and even secession named as possible options on the ballot.
*
Aksyonov was appointed prime minister last month by a vote in the Crimean parliament, which was being guarded at the time by unidentified masked gunmen who had occupied the building the previous night.

Speaking to Baltcom, Aksyonov declined to be drawn on whether he supported on secession for Crimean, insisting that it was a decision for the people on the peninsula to make. The majority of the region’s population is pro-Russian, although it is unclear to what extent they favor a breakaway from Ukraine.


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Russia Mulls Seizing Foreign Assets Over Sanctions Threat










MOSCOW, March 5 (RIA Novosti) – *The upper house of Russia’s parliament is mulling measures allowing property and assets of European and US companies to be confiscated in the event of sanctions being adopted against Russia over its threatened military intervention in Ukraine.
*
The bill’s author, Federation Council constitutional legislation committee head Andrei Klishas, said Wednesday that lawyers are currently studying whether the proposed confiscations would be constitutional.

“But we have no doubts that it clearly corresponds to European standards,” Klishas told RIA Novosti. “The recent events in Cyprus spring to mind, where the confiscation of assets was the main demand made by the European Union in return for economic aid.”

An adviser to President Vladimir Putin said Tuesday that *authorities would issue general advice to dump US government bonds if Russian companies and individuals were targeted by sanctions over events in Ukraine.
*
According to US Treasury data from the end of 2013, *Russian investments in US government bonds total around $139 billion out of a total of $5.8 trillion of US debt held in foreign hands.
*
Earlier this week, US and European officials warned that Russia’s alleged actions in Ukraine could lead to economic sanctions and asset freezes. US Secretary of State John Kerry told NBC’s “Meet the Press” Sunday that the United States and some of its allies were “prepared to go to the hilt to isolate Russia.”


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## Stone Cold 4life (Dec 17, 2008)

God, the Russian propaganda stream is running strong.


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)




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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Stone Cold 4life said:


> God, the Russian propaganda stream is running strong.


It's better to just ignore all of his news posts. He (most likely) just does that to troll the people who are against the Russian intervention.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> It's better to just ignore all of his news posts. He (most likely) just does that to troll the people who are against the Russian intervention.


Trolling would be making nasty remarks about someone and personal attacks as some have levelled against me for my personal opinion posts. News posts are just posting the news not trolling. 

Since you have the opportunity to read the US/EU/NATO point of view everywhere and see it on TV constantly, what is the harm in posting the news from the point of view of the other side?

Perhaps, some of the omissions of the West's "free" press might come to light and get someone thinking?

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Seriously, what?! Kerry tells Russia 'you don't invade a country on completely phony pretexts'


Published time: March 03, 2014 11:10 
Edited time: March 04, 2014 09:06 

*The US Secretary of State spoke today of the unacceptability of invading a sovereign country on phony pretexts in order to assert one’s own interests in the 21st century. But no, he was not speaking about the United States, as one might have thought.
*
“You just don’t invade another country on phony pretext in order to assert your interests,” John Kerry said during an interview with NBC’s Meet the Press. “This is an act of aggression that is completely trumped up in terms of its pretext. It’s really 19th century behaviour in the 21st century.” 

Although Kerry was never challenged by the interviewer to comment in terms of that statement on Washington’s own constant threats to use force and military invasions in Iraq and Afghanistan, *those who watched the interview immediately smelled the hypocrisy*. 

“*Since when does the United States government genuinely subscribe and defend the concept of sovereignty and territorial integrity?* *They certainly are not doing that at the moment in Syria*,” Marcus Papadopoulos, commentator for ‘Politics First’ told RT. “*They certainly did not do that when they attacked Libya. They certainly didn’t do that when they invaded Iraq. They certainly didn’t do that when they attacked Serbia over Kosovo* and then later on recognized Kosovo’s unilateral declaration of independence. *The United States government merely pays lip service to sovereignty and territorial integrity, it picks and choses*.” 

Since the crisis in Ukraine escalated to a point where the lives of the Russian speaking population of Ukraine has become threatened, Kerry’s reaction comes, some believe, as the most ridiculous thus far, taking into account US own history of military actions all over the globe.


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> Trolling would be making nasty remarks about someone and personal attacks as some have levelled against me for my personal opinion posts. News posts are just posting the news not trolling.
> 
> Since you have the opportunity to read the US/EU/NATO point of view everywhere and see it on TV constantly, what is the harm in posting the news from the point of view of the other side?
> 
> ...



It's a waste of time arguing that your news were created by one of the countries in the east and supports their agenda.
You already know that!

More importantly, it is the rich who own and control the newspapers, TV and radio stations, magazines, and other 
outlets of the mass media. The news is reported with ommissions, half-truths, and outright lies to support the
interests of the wealthy owners of the media. I guess there is a free press in the East - *free to lie, omit,
obfuscate, and distort as it sees fit. 
*
I don't worship anyone. And, instead of parroting the Russian media's anti-Ukrainain revolution propaganda you might want to
take a trip to Ukraine. Why not go see for yourself???




unk2


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> It's a waste of time arguing that your news were created by one of the countries in the east and supports their agenda.
> You already know that!
> 
> More importantly, it is the rich who own and control the newspapers, TV and radio stations, magazines, and other
> ...


I would think that you could be more original than copying my post word for word. But, each to there ability.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Interesting if you understand. Listen to what the woman is talking about.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

If you didn't like my other posts, you should really hate this one!

AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> I would think that you could be more original than copying my post word for word. But, each to there ability.
> 
> - Mike


He copied your post and turned it around, for you to finally see, that you say things about one side, but completely deny the fact that EXACT SAME THINGS also happen on the other side. Your ultra-one-sided attitude is obvious. And the only source you use in your posts is RUSSIA TODAY. Do you even watch or read anything else? It doesn't seem so.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> He copied your post and turned it around, for you to finally see, that you say things about one side, but completely deny the fact that EXACT SAME THINGS also happen on the other side. Your ultra-one-sided attitude is obvious. And the only source you use in your posts is RUSSIA TODAY. Do you even watch or read anything else? It doesn't seem so.


Tomas, of course I understood what he was doing. And, yes I see American propaganda every day. Check out the video on "AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM." We are bombarded every day by bullshit from the "free" media.

My posting of articles from the point of view of the other side is a drop in the bucket compared to what we see here on a daily basis.

- Mike


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Tomas, of course I understood what he was doing. And, yes I see American propaganda every day. Check out the video on "AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM." We are bombarded every day by bullshit from the "free" media.
> 
> My posting of articles from the point of view of the other side is a drop in the bucket compared to what we see here on a daily basis.
> 
> - Mike


So you see American propaganda, but don't see Russian propaganda?


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> I would think that you could be more original than copying my post word for word. But, each to there ability.
> 
> - Mike


You just don't get it do you?

I did it to show you what others have already pointed out; With the post I copied, you dismissed (*wrongly*) a map, essentially a piece of news, as propaganda just because it came from a western source. By changing the words east and west around in your post, *it works just as well to dismiss your news as propaganda*.


Also, despite posting silly posts like that, you seem to get quite angry when people dismiss your arguments just because they're from a Russian source, as seen here:



Karma101 said:


> That thread isn't very good. It's just that one poster spamming Russian propaganda.





Batko10 said:


> So, if someone disagrees with you and posts contrary opinions and articles that the West covers up or omits then it is "propaganda?" But, the bullshit coming out of Kerry's mouth and Obama's asshole are gospel??
> 
> I guess it's time to post some news on this thread! - Mike




To my eyes, that's nothing but one thing: typical *western hypocrisy*. That's a term you used earlier yourself to describe a situation just like this.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Батько, you call something propaganda just because it comes from a Western source, but get angry when someone calls your posts propaganda because it comes from an Eastern source. I see double standards bias here.


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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

batko is the king of bias in this thread. why we continue to respond to him or even read his bullshit?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

GOD said:


> batko is the king of bias in this thread. why we continue to respond to him or even read his bullshit?


You all better listen. GOD has spoken! 

- Mike


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## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

“You just don’t invade another country on phony pretext in order to assert your interests,” 

:lmao


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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

the worse is this moron proposed the idea of giving ukraine a billion dollars


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Edit: nevermind.


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

Per a 1999 agreement Russia is legally allowed to station up to 25,000 troops in the Crimea.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Crimea’s Parliament Decides to Secede to Russia








[/URL][/IMG]

MOSCOW, March 6 (RIA Novosti) – *The parliament of Crimea, a majority ethnic Russian region within Ukraine, decided Thursday to secede from the country and become part of Russia,* according to a statement on its website.

*A popular vote to approve the decision or restore the 1992 Crimean Constitution, whereby the peninsula would remain an autonomous republic within Ukraine, is scheduled for March 16*, the statement said.

The ballot, to be printed in the Russian, Ukrainian and Tatar languages, will include only those two questions. Neither question would allow voters to indicate a preference for independence.

Russian President Vladimir Putin met with senior officials in an emergency session of his Security Council to discuss the decision by Crimea’s parliament to secede, his spokesman Dmitry Peskov said.

*Putin said Tuesday that Russia was not considering annexing Crimea, but that the residents of a region can determine their own future.
*
Russian lawmaker Sergei Mironov said there was ample time for his country’s parliament to pass legislation that he introduced last week to annex Crimea.

Rallies around the predominantly Russian-speaking peninsula following the formation of the new government in Kiev have openly called for secession and annexation by Russia.

*Crimean officials have refused to recognize as legitimate the new central government in Kiev, which ousted President Viktor Yanukovych on February 22.
*
Thousands of troops apparently under Russian command but lacking official insignia have taken control over Ukrainian military bases across Crimea in the past week.

Russia’s parliament has approved military intervention in Ukraine, but President Vladimir Putin has denied that troops have been deployed and has called the masked soldiers “local militia.”

The referendum was originally scheduled to be held May 25, the same day as Ukraine’s early presidential election.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Questions on Ukraine the West chooses not to answer

Ukrainian and Western refusal to answer Moscow’s hard questions explains Russia’s tough stance on the crisis in Kiev.

*Ignoring Russian concerns is a Western habit adopted after the Soviet Union’s collapse*; when NATO bombed Yugoslavia; during the recognition of Kosovo as an independent state, and the US push to install an anti-missile shield over Europe that can target Russia. 

It also happened recently when Western diplomats flocked to Ukraine to smile and wave and lobby their interests in a future Ukrainian government, *while accusing Russia of meddling in Ukrainian affairs. 
*
*But it seems that in Ukraine lies Russia’s red line and Moscow no longer takes “don’t know, don’t care” for an answer*.

1. Why did the opposition oust Yanukovich after he conceded to their demands? 

On February 21, Yanukovich and the three Ukrainian parliamentary faction leaders signed a reconciliation deal co-signed by Foreign Ministers of France, Germany and Poland. A gesture that their countries would serve as agreement guarantors. 

The agreement provides a de-escalation roadmap of constitutional reform, a national unity government, early presidential election and disbandment of Maidan fighter groups. 

*Hours after it was signed, Right Sector radicals, key to the violence unleashed in Kiev which left a hundred people dead, gave Yanukovich an ultimatum: resign or face a siege of his residence. 
*
Against Moscow’s advice, Yanukovich fled. 

Vladimir Putin’s comments illuminate the Russian position here: "*He [Yanukovich] had in fact given up his power already*, and as I believe, as I told him, he had no chance of being re-elected. *What was the purpose of all those illegal, unconstitutional actions, why did they have to create this chaos in the country?* Armed and masked militants are still roaming the streets of Kiev. This is a question to which there is no answer." 

Russia says the February 21 agreement must be implemented. The opposition signed it yet allows an uncontrolled militia of violent armed radicals send fear and loathing across a large swath of Ukraine. 

*The US says the agreement no longer matters – because Yanukovich fled. The EU signatories don’t seem to be bothered about it either. 
*


2. Why is the coup-appointed govt replacing oligarchs linked to Yanukovich with... oligarchs? 

*Popular resentment of Yanukovich blossomed over corruption*. Protesters pointed to power abuse, theft and allowing linked-oligarchs raid businesses of other clans. Evidence came readily after they fled - photos of their homes’ sumptuous interiors. 

*But the new self-appointed govt is replacing Yanukovich’s oligarchs with their own*. Kiev just appointed billionaires as governors of Donetsk and Dnepropetrovsk respectively, a move that also drew Putin’s ire: "Mr. Kolomoisky was appointed governor of Dnepropetrovsk. This is a unique crook. He even managed to cheat our oligarch Roman Abramovich two or three years ago. Scammed him.." 

Both hold major assets in their respective regions and thousands depend on them for work. Both appointments are meant to stabilize a volatile society and ensure loyalty to the capital but *critics say Kiev is reinventing fiefdoms to nobility in exchange for servitude. For Putin, who famously excluded oligarchs from politics, the move is an anathema*.


3. Why did the post-coup parliament strip Russian language of its regional status? 

*A bill repealing a law on regional languages was among dozens rubber-stamped by a chaotic Ukrainian parliament in the first post-coup days*. It allowed the Ukrainian nationalist and anti-Russian Svoboda (Freedom) Party put a feather in its cap. Yet it sent a ripple of hostility south and east from Kiev, where Russian-speakers are a large minority or even majority. 

*Kiev pledged to restore the status of Russian but now says the acting Ukrainian president won’t sign such a bill into law.* 


4. Why did Kiev attack the Constitutional Court? 

*Several Constitutional Court judges were accused of violating their oath and abruptly fired amid coup govt orders they be prosecuted*. The judges branded this as an attack on the principle of separation of powers. Putin called it "monkey business". 

*As Yanukovich was not procedurally impeached but through a simple show of hands the legality of his impeachment is open to challenges taken by several Ukrainian regions and, diplomatically, by Russia*. The Ukrainian Constitutional Court is the proper authority to rule on the issue yet *the new Kiev admin is mooting totally disbanding it and giving its functions to the Supreme Court*.


5. Why would the West support the coup in Ukraine? 

From the Russian perspective, *the West fueled the fires of protest and ensured the Ukrainian government was toppled. Now it is attempting to legitimize its factious replacement. *What Russia calls an unconstitutional coup, the West is branding a public revolution. It is possible that it is both. 

Moscow does not challenge the reality. *It doesn’t seek a Yanukovich return to power*. It would work with the people who ousted him, as it did with the Yushchenko presidency. But Moscow demands the Kiev coup govt carries a national mandate to govern, in both east and west. * Without it, any government is unsustainable*. 

Putin’s position is that it now maybe too late, despite his repeated warnings Ukraine would polarize. "Did our partners in the West and those who call themselves the government in Kiev now not foresee that events would take this turn? I said to them over and over: Why are you whipping the country into a frenzy like this?" 

*A stable Ukraine is essential for Russia for many reasons*, humanitarian being just few of them. Of course Russia wants ethnic Russians in Ukraine to be safe from potential violence and persecution. But there are also more pragmatic considerations as well. 

There’s the Black Sea Fleet, strong economic interdependence and there is gas. Ukraine transits Russian natural gas to Europe and is thus essential to the Russian and European economies. Yet now a desperate Kiev mulls privatizing its gas pipelines to fill its empty coffers, while Moscow’s questions remain unheard.


----------



## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

I would think that you could be more original than ignoring my post word for word. But, each to there ability.


That's really something I'd expect from a 10-year-old kid, Mike. Not someone your age.


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko, you run around here, moaning about how the government in Kiev is illegitimate. But you completely omit the face that the government is Crimea is just as illegitimate. You accuse the West of omitting facts and now you do this yourself. You are contradiction yourself. You say that the West only tells one side of the story and then do it yourself in the next post either without realising it or just without acknowledging it.

And I second what Allur said above this post.


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

Little credit as Russian media has, western media has zero credit.


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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

I saw that anchor for Russia Today quit because of the bullshit they are being told to tell the people.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

GOD said:


> I saw that anchor for Russia Today quit because of the bullshit they are being told to tell the people.


Actually, there were two anchors, who spoke out live on RT. And they didn't quit. They were fired and that they quit was a cover up (at least one of them was fired. Not sure about the other)


----------



## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

GOD said:


> I saw that anchor for Russia Today quit because of the bullshit they are being told to tell the people.


She quit live on air and if she wasn't bribed heavily at the weekend to do so, I'm Richard Nixon.


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

roadkill_ said:


> She quit live on air and if she wasn't bribed heavily at the weekend to do so, I'm Richard Nixon.


Both resigned on the air and displayed totally unprofessional behavior.

When a newsperson has a conflict with the media outlet that he/she represents they usually take it up with the editor. If no resolution is reached then the newsperson resigns quietly and seeks other employment.

I'm inclined to agree with you that at least Liz Wahl was paid off by American interests to make the scene that she did. 

What is interesting is that Abby Martin has a long history of criticizing the military adventures of the United States on her own program for which she has alway got the cold shoulder from the U.S. All of a sudden this pariah becomes Washington's darling when she criticizes Russia.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> Edit: nevermind.


No, but someone else is calling themselves that.

- Mike


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)




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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> No, but someone else is calling themselves that.
> 
> - Mike


So you decided not to answer my other questions on purpose? Don't have an answer?


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> So you decided not to answer my other questions on purpose? Don't have an answer?


What is the sense in going in circles answering your questions? You support the illegal government in Kiev run by the ultra-nationalists and supported by Washington and NATO. Nothing that I say is going to change your mind. My posts now are all news reports and intended for people who are fed up with hearing the hypocritical, one sided reporting from the West and want to hear what the other side has to say.

Regarding your question, the government in Crimea was obliged by the constitution to be loyal to the *ELECTED* government and *ELECTED* president in Kiev. Once the ultra-nationalist insurgents took power by *FORCE*, drove out the* ELECTED* president and defacto disbanded the *ELECTED* government Crimea was no longer under any obligations to them - legally (constitutionally) or morally. The same goes for the other regions that are not recognizing the illegitimate government of the Western Ukrainian fascists.

I hope that answers your question. 

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

^ fpalm


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Ukraine Crisis Deepens as Sevastopol Votes to Join Russia

MOSCOW, March 7 (RIA Novosti) – *Ukraine’s Crimean city of Sevastopol has voted to become part of Russia,* mirroring an earlier vote by the region’s parliament and consolidating support for the majority ethnic Russian region to formally secede from Ukraine in an upcoming popular vote.

The Sevastopol city council voted “to join the Russian Federation as a subject,” the council said in a statement Thursday evening.

*The city, which has a separate administrative status from the rest of Crimea, will still take part in a public referendum to formalize the decision, scheduled by the Crimean parliament for March 16*.


Russian Parliament Welcomes Crimea to Leave Ukraine for Russia

MOSCOW, March 7 (RIA Novosti) – *Russia’s upper house of parliament said Friday it would welcome the addition of Crimea to the country's territory if residents there choose to secede from Ukraine in a referendum scheduled next week.
*
Officials in the Crimean parliament – the Supreme Council – and the city council of Sevastopol voted Thursday for the majority ethnic Russian region to become part of Russia. 

“If the people of Crimea make the decision in the referendum to join Russia, we, as the upper house, will of course support such a decision,” Matviyenko said Friday.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Again, the voting and referendum to 'join Russia' is illegitimate and not legal.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

*Ukraine crisis deepens with pro-Russia riots in Crimea region*

SIMFEROPOL, Ukraine — Masked gunmen stormed parliament in Ukraine's strategic Crimea region Thursday as Russian fighter jets scrambled to patrol borders, the stirrings of a potentially dangerous confrontation reminiscent of Cold War brinkmanship.

More: http://www.denverpost.com/nationwor...crisis-deepens-pro-russia-riots-crimea-region

So much of your 'peaceful protests, Batko.


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

TomasThunder619 said:


> Again, the voting and referendum to 'join Russia' is illegitimate and not legal.



The new Ukrainian regime is not legal, rendering this point moot. Coup de'tat.


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## CJ (Jun 28, 2011)

TomasThunder619 said:


> Again, the voting and referendum to 'join Russia' is illegitimate and not legal.


According to who? The non-elected government in Kiev?


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Popular uprising looming in eastern Ukraine

Published time: March 07, 2014 13:04 

*Protests against the self-proclaimed government in Kiev continue in eastern regions of Ukraine. Thousands-strong gatherings in Donetsk and Lugansk are rallying in support of the Russian language and holding a referendum on the federalization of Ukraine.
*
In Donetsk, the city that once used to be the stronghold of the ousted President Viktor Yanukovich, people are protesting against the new governor appointed by Kiev last Sunday. 

The appointee is Ukrainian oligarch, billionaire Sergey Taruta, the owner of ISD, one of the biggest mining and smelting companies in the world, he also owns the Donetsk-based Metallurg Football Club. 

The oligarch governor failed to come to Donetsk immediately after the appointment, *so demonstrators have chosen a “people’s governor” of their own, the leader of the ‘National levy’ Pavel Gubarev advocating setting a referendum that might ask the citizens of Donetsk region about reunification with Russia.* The ‘National levy’ also started collecting signatures to conduct referendum on allegiance of the region. 

During this week the regional administration building in Donetsk changed hands many times, with either the ‘National levy’ or pro-Kiev forces declaring capture of the authority headquarters. 

*Several videos allegedly made in downtown Donetsk on March 5 exposed that armed pro-Kiev forces had come to Donetsk,* as a group of unidentified men in military outfits and equipped with Russian AK assault rifles and American М4А1 carbines were securing protection of some pro-Kiev activists amidst anti-government popular protests. 

Later, Rossiya 1 TV channel made an assumption that these people could be from a group of several hundred mercenaries that allegedly arrived to Kiev recently. Rossiya 1 maintained that mercenaries work for the notorious Academy (formerly known as Blackwater and Xe Services), *a privately owned American security services provider that employ over 20,000 guns for hire. 
*
*But even the appearance of mercenaries in the center of Donetsk did not stop the citizens from protesting against self-proclaimed government in Kiev*. 

Early Thursday morning a special group of the Security Service of Ukraine (SSU) that arrived from Kiev conducted a hit-and-run operation and arrested Pavel Gubarev on charges of an attempt of power seizure, an exactly the same accusation used by the opposition leader against the self-proclaimed government in Kiev. 

According to the ‘National levy’ webpage on Facebook, Gubarev was convoyed to the capital Kiev. Police also put under arrest several dozens of activists. 

The same day, Governor Taruta arrived to Donetsk and held a meeting with region’s new police chief also appointed by Kiev. 

*Yet late at night citizens of Donetsk attempted to storm local headquarters of SSU, demanding to release their leader.* They also managed to stop and topple prison truck carrying unknown number of arrested activists. 

When top-ranked police and internal troop officers came out to the people, they were heckled with jibes like, “*Do you remember those you’re protecting? Those who mistreated you in Kiev?” *reported Komsomolskaya Pravda. 

*After pondering for some time police opted to free the detained activists which immediately joined the protesters*. 

A new stage of anti-Kiev rally is appointed for Friday afternoon, maintains the ‘National levy’ website. 

*In Lugansk, another regional center in eastern Ukraine, a thousands-strong rally waving Russian flags and chanting “Russia! Ukraine! Belarus! Together!” elected a “people’s governor” of their own, the leader of the local ‘Lugansk guards’ militia, Aleksandr Kharitonov*. Members of the guards have already repelled an armed assault force from Kiev that attempted to seize local power institutions in the city on February 20 and currently continue to stand against the attackers from Kiev’s Maidan. 

*Because the local prosecutor’s office never bothered to launch a criminal investigation into the attempted power seizure by the armed militants from Kiev, the citizens of Lugansk now put their trust in vigilante groups rather than police*. 

*All attempts to gather in Lugansk a significant nationalist rally similar to Maidan in Kiev have failed*, largely because they looked increasingly pale in comparison with massive anti-government demonstration rallying in the center of the city. 

In other regional centers of Ukraine, such as country's second-largest city of Kharkov, anti-government protests were of a much smaller scale, *perhaps also due to the heavy presence of the riot police at rally sites. 
*


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

why2cj said:


> According to who? The non-elected government in Kiev?


Yes. Exactly.


----------



## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

TomasThunder619 said:


> Yes. Exactly.


Then it's not legally binding. Which means that secession will be one of the costs of taking control without a mandate.

If Ukrainians have a problem with losing Crimea - blame their imposter government.


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Russian FM: Ukraine Controlled by Ultranationalists








[/URL][/IMG]
_The Western Ukrainian supporters of the illegitimate government in Kiev have been tearing down statues dedicated to the victory in WW II. *However, the ones erected during the pro-West regime of Yushchenko to fascist murderer Stepan Bandera and his gang have remained untouched *(i.e., Bandera was the head of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists that collaborated with the Nazis and founded the Ukrainian Insurgent Army that fought for Hitler during WW II)._

MOSCOW, March 8 (RIA Novosti) – The head of Russian diplomacy on Saturday slammed Ukrainian post-revolutionary authorities and alleged attempts to demonize Russia's involvement in the Ukrainian crisis.

“*The so-called ‘interim government’ [in Ukraine] is not independent and, sadly, depends on radical nationalists who seized power in an armed coup*,” Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said.

Ukrainian opposition took power in the country last month, ousting President Viktor Yanukovych after a drawn-out standoff with the police that resulted in at least 100 deaths on both sides.

*Opposition forces were led by the Right Sector, a confederation of far-right ultranationalist groups*.

The opposition set up presidential elections for May and installed a new government. The Right Sector has no seats in the Cabinet, but its members organized armed patrols in the capital Kiev and have been documented on at least one occasion to physically abuse a local prosecutor for lack of revolutionary zeal.

“*The so-called ‘Right Sector’ is calling the shots through terror and intimidation*,” Lavrov told a press conference in Moscow.

The minister also said Russia is willing to work with other countries in order to find a solution for the Ukrainian crisis.

But Lavrov said *critics should stop demonizing Russia*.

“We should have a fair dialogue like partners, without attempts to paint Russia as almost a party to the conflict,” Lavrov said.

Thousands of troops widely alleged to be the Russian military have effectively taken control over Ukraine’s pro-Russian Republic of Crimea last week.

*Crimean authorities said the region will join Russia and set a popular vote on the secession for March 16*.

Secession plans were strongly denounced by the pro-Western government in Kiev as well as EU and US officials.


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

The Russians are mining the Ukraine/Crimean border and have moved a motorized division to the Russia/Crimean border. Uncle Vlad is expecting something.


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## elhijodelbodallas (Jan 30, 2014)

The new government is perfectly legitimate. If the majority of the country supports it then it is legitimate. You don't need an election to get a seal of approval, even more so in a part of the world where most elections are fraudulent.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

elhijodelbodallas said:


> The new government is perfectly legitimate. If the majority of the country supports it then it is legitimate. You don't need an election to get a seal of approval, even more so in a part of the world where most elections are fraudulent.


Who says the majority of the country supports the insurgency and the government of the insurgents?

Well, we do know that the U.S., E.U., and NATO support it. Of course, if an insurgency such as the one in Ukraine happened in one of their countries the West would be singing a different tune. But, I state the obvious.

- Mike


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

US/EU LACKIES FROM OSCE DENIED ENTRY INTO CRIMEA FOR THIRD TIME - WARNING SHOTS FIRED

MOSCOW, March 8 (RIA Novosti) – A mission of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) was denied entry to Ukraine’s breakaway region of Crimea on Saturday.

*Warning shots were fired after the military assessment team from OSCE states neared the checkpoint in the city of Armyansk*, according to OSCE’s official Twitter account.

*No injuries were reported*. The observers returned to the nearby city of Kherson, the OSCE said.

*This was the third attempt by the 54-strong OSCE mission to enter Crimea since Thursday*.

*The mission was invited by the illegitimate central government in Kiev*, installed last month after ousting of President Viktor Yanukovych following a protracted and bloody standoff between police and the opposition, including armed far-right groups.

Crimean authorities refused to recognize the new pro-Western government and announced plans to secede and join Russia, with a referendum on the matter set for March 16.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

CONGRATULATIONS TO ALL OUR FEMALE LIST MEMBERS ON MARCH 8TH - INTERNATIONAL WOMEN'S DAY










With all the hullabaloo about the insurgency in Ukraine, I almost forgot *International Women's Day *which is still celebrated in many Eastern European and post-Soviet republics today.

The day is an official holiday in Afghanistan,Angola, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Burkina Faso, Cambodia, China (for women only), Cuba, Georgia, Guinea-Bissau, Eritrea, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Laos,[ Macedonia (for women only), Madagascar (for women only), Moldova, Mongolia, Nepal (for women only), Russia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uganda, Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Vietnam,[47] and Zambia.

In some countries, such as Cameroon, Croatia, Romania, Montenegro,Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, Bulgaria and Chile,[53] the day is not a public holiday, but is widely observed nonetheless.


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## BlueRover (Jun 26, 2010)

with no one doing anything to stop Russia, is it ok if Bulgaria movies in and reclaims Macedonia and the parts of Greece which rightfully belong to us? Since we're a member of NATO, and we don't have any real army, I expect some help with that from America and other western powers. Crimea is no more Russian than Macedonia is Bulgarian. Justice must be kept. 

or....all these international agreements and unions are basically a big joke and the smaller countries are told to go F themselves while only the powerful profit?

I wonder what the f***ing answer is.


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> Who says the majority of the country supports the insurgency and the government of the insurgents?
> 
> *Well, we do know that the U.S., E.U., and NATO support it. Of course, if an insurgency such as the one in Ukraine happened in one of their countries the West would be singing a different tune. * But, I state the obvious.
> 
> - Mike


Just like you support blindly dismissing news as propaganda. Unless, of course, people do it to your eastern news, that's when you sing a different tune. Right?


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

BlueRover said:


> with no one doing anything to stop Russia, is it ok if Bulgaria movies in and reclaims Macedonia and the parts of Greece which rightfully belong to us? Since we're a member of NATO, and we don't have any real army, I expect some help with that from America and other western powers. Crimea is no more Russian than Macedonia is Bulgarian. Justice must be kept.
> 
> or....all these international agreements and unions are basically a big joke and the smaller countries are told to go F themselves while only the powerful profit?
> 
> I wonder what the f***ing answer is.


That's an interesting topic, actually. If it can go this way, how about us Finns join in and take back Karelia, Salla and Petsamo? And what would Russia do if those areas decided to have an independent referendum on rejoining Finland? If it went through, would they consider it legal and allow them to join?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> That's an interesting topic, actually. If it can go this way, how about us Finns join in and take back Karelia, Salla and Petsamo? And what would Russia do if those areas decided to have an independent referendum on rejoining Finland? If it went through, would they consider it legal and allow them to join?


They are talking about seceding from the union in the state of Texas. I wonder what would happen if they had a referendum on secession and it passed? Oh, sorry. We already know. The federal government would send in troops like they did in 1861-1865. 

Secession is* NOT* allowed in the United States, only in countries that the United States and its allies see fit to dismember.

- Mike


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Batko10 said:


> They are talking about seceding from the union in the state of Texas. I wonder what would happen if they had a referendum on secession and it passed? Oh, sorry. We already know. The federal government would send in troops like they did in 1861-1865.
> 
> Secession is* NOT* allowed in the United States, only in countries that the United States and its allies see fit to dismember.
> 
> - Mike


Texas was planing on allying it self with the CSA.

One of the Union's main goals was preventing the CSA from being seen as its own nation because that would allow them to start officially trading and allying with European nations and the "official nation of Texas" would fuck that up. They goal was to avoid giving the confederacy legitimacy at all cost 

Texas had only been a state for 16 years and tried to secede and side with a rebellion during a civil war, the situation was far from normal business


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

stevefox1200 said:


> Texas was planing on allying it self with the CSA.
> 
> One of the Union's main goals was preventing the CSA from being seen as its own nation because that would allow them to start officially trading and allying with European nations and the "official nation of Texas" would fuck that up. They goal was to avoid giving the confederacy legitimacy at all cost
> 
> Texas had only been a state for 16 years and tried to secede and side with a rebellion during a civil war, the situation was far from normal business


I was being facitious and refering to the present day grumbling in Texas about the present Obama government in Washington.

However, the Confederate States of America was comprised of 11 states (including Texas) which felt that they had nothing in common anymore with the rest of the country. They believed that they had voluntarily entered into the union and had the right to leave it. The federal authorities in Washington didn't agree and, thus ignited the Civil War.

As an FYI, Great Britain supported the CSI and Russia backed the Union.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> They are talking about seceding from the union in the state of Texas. I wonder what would happen if they had a referendum on secession and it passed? Oh, sorry. We already know.  The federal government would send in troops like they did in 1861-1865.
> 
> Secession is* NOT* allowed in the United States, only in countries that the United States and its allies see fit to dismember.
> 
> - Mike


Seriously? You are talking about something that happened 150 years ago. Wake up, it's 21st century already. People are supposed to be more civilized now.


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## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

why isnt secession not allowed anyways?


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## TB Tapp (Oct 26, 2013)

Angry mob runs an elected politician out of office = perfectly fine 

Crimea's people to vote whether it will be part of Ukraine or Russia = UNACCEPTABLE BREACH OF INTERNATIONAL LAW


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

TB Tapp said:


> Angry mob runs an elected politician out of office = perfectly fine


Same thing happened in Crimea and according to you is perfectly fine as well, so stop being so obviously two faced.

Russians do this = perfectly fine.

Ukrainians do this = UNACCEPTABLE BREACH OF INTERNATIONAL LAW.


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## TB Tapp (Oct 26, 2013)

¡jajajaja señor Thomas! The governor of Crimea at no point was forced to leave office due to an angry mob. I recall from some some of your posts that you reside in the Lithuania. Instead of criticizing the 3rd Rome, perhaps you should focus on not freezing to death and not having other WF make you avatarts from Avril Lavigne and Hayley Williams. ¡jajajaja...


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

TB Tapp said:


> ¡jajajaja señor Thomas! The governor of Crimea at no point was forced to leave office due to an angry mob. I recall from some some of your posts that you reside in the Lithuania. Instead of criticizing the 3rd Rome, perhaps you should focus on not freezing to death and not having other WF make you avatarts from Avril Lavigne and Hayley Williams. ¡jajajaja...


:xabi2 gotten to


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Al Borland said:


> :xabi2 gotten to


Yup.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> Seriously? You are talking about something that happened 150 years ago. Wake up, it's 21st century already. People are supposed to be more civilized now.


Tell that to the Western Ukrainian animals in the Maidan Mob!

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Tell that to the Western Ukrainian animals in the Maidan Mob!
> 
> - Mike


You are comparing a riot and a military intervention of one of the world's biggest military and annexation of part of a foreign country.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> You are comparing a riot and a military intervention of one of the world's biggest military and annexation of part of a foreign country.


The *"riot"* was a well planned coup that resulted in the forcible ouster of the legitimate *ELECTED* government of Ukraine by gun wielding insurgents who killed police officers, tossed molotov cocktails and bombs, and destroyed millions of dollars worth of property.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

YURI GAGARIN, FIRST HUMAN IN OUTER SPACE, WOULD HAVE BEEN 80 YEARS OLD TODAY

_“A pilot must fly, always fly,” Yury Gagarin wrote in his diary in the spring of 1968 shortly before his death in a Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-15-UTI Midget fighter crash. *On March 9, 2014, Yury Gagarin, the first man in space, would have celebrated his 80th birthday*._


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## TomahawkJock (Jun 19, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> The *"riot"* was a well planned coup that resulted in the forcible ouster of the legitimate *ELECTED* government of Ukraine by gun wielding insurgents who killed police officers, tossed molotov cocktails and bombs, and destroyed millions of dollars worth of property.
> 
> - Mike


After the Ukrainian government assaulted the peaceful protesters.


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

reDREDD said:


> why isnt secession not allowed anyways?


It wasn't allowed under article 73 under the former Ukrainian constitution. Which was rendered invalid when a coup took place.


NATO fucked up. They organised a coup with the intent of weakening Russian interests and actually strengthened them. And Putin didn't have to fire a shot.


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

TomahawkJock said:


> After the Ukrainian government assaulted the peaceful protesters.


Not that straight forward. At some point civil servants whose lives are put at risk will be given authority to defend themselves. Additionally outsider (armed) agitators have been proven to have shot at protestors.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> The *"riot"* was a well planned coup that resulted in the forcible ouster of the legitimate *ELECTED* government of Ukraine by gun wielding insurgents who killed police officers, tossed molotov cocktails and bombs, and destroyed millions of dollars worth of property.
> 
> - Mike


And you still justify Russia's military intervention into Ukraine.


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## Spanish Lariato (Jul 26, 2011)

USA mercenaries in Ukraine. Nazis, blood-hungry mercenaries and ignorant fools who believe that EU is heaven on Earth; yep, that makes a good mix.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lk-U-S-mercenary-outfit-deployed-Donetsk.html


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

TomasThunder619 said:


> And you still justify Russia's military intervention into Ukraine.


Russia is permitted to have up to 25,000 troops in the Autonomous Republic of Crimea. They have done nothing illegal.


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## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

reDREDD said:


> why isnt secession not allowed anyways?


because its against the Ukrainian constitution, and Obama takes constitutions VERY seriously


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

UKRAINE'S SOUTH AND EAST RALLY AGAINST THE COUP AND ILLEGITIMATE GOVERNMENT IN KIEV

On Sunday, thousands of anti-Maidan demonstrators rallying in the eastern Ukrainian city of Lugansk blocked and occupied the regional administration building, hoisting a Russian flag on top. The protesters have demanded that Mikhail Bolotskikh, the region’s head, step down. Bolotskikh was appointed by the self-proclaimed Kiev authorities. 

Some 3,000 people took part in the rally and about 1,000 broke inside the building, according to Itar-Tass and local media reports. Twitter users claimed that Bolotskikh has already signed his resignation and escaped the city center in a car through a “disgrace corridor” formed by the protesters.

Later on Sunday, the fugitive official declared that he signed the document under pressure and that he is still carrying out his duties. 

Before the takeover, pro-Russian demonstrators reportedly clashed with Euromaidan activists demonstrating near a monument to Ukrainian poet Taras Shevchenko, whose 200th birthday was celebrated on Sunday. 

*ANTI-MAIDAN ACTIVISTS STORM AND CAPTURE LUGANSK REGIONAL CAPITAL BUILDING*





Shevchenko’s anniversary attracted rallies in support of Ukraine’s unity all across the country. One of the largest demonstrations took place in Kharkov, where some 10,000 people marched with a huge 100-meter Ukrainian flag and chanted, “No to war!” 

The eastern Ukrainian city, which is located just 26 kilometers away from the Russian border and has a large Russian minority, has been extremely divided on whether to accept the current Kiev regime as a legitimate power. On Saturday, *more than 10,000 pro-Russian Kharkov residents rallied in favor of rejecting Kiev’s rule, urging the formation of a southeastern federation of regions. 
*
The issue of the federation, referred to as the Autonomous South-Eastern Republic within the Ukrainian state, should be decided by a popular vote as soon as possible, the people demanded. 

While the rally itself was peaceful, it ended with several attempts of provocations. Two people were beaten and one shot by unidentified masked people, who quickly left the scene by car. The radical Right Sector movement has denied that its members waged the attack. 

*FLAG OF THE MAIDAN MOB TORN DOWN - RUSSIAN FLAG FLIES OVER DONETSK*





Around 7,000 pro-Russian demonstrators in the city of Donetsk on Sunday also supported the holding of a referendum on the status of their region. The people demanded that the status of the Russian language, stripped by the coup-imposed government, be reinstated, and that the “People’s Governor” of Donetsk, Pavel Gubarev, be freed. 

Gubarev, who was detained in Donetsk by Special Security Forces, has reportedly been brought to Kiev on charges of violating the territorial integrity of Ukraine, takeover of power, and seizure of government buildings. 

The coup-imposed Ukrainian authorities were also quick to respond to the situation in Lugansk, opening a criminal case on similar charges. Ukraine’s prosecutor general has taken control of the case. 

Despite the ongoing popular protests in southeastern Ukraine, the country’s former opposition remained deaf to the people’s demands. UDAR party leader Vitaly Klitschko said in a Sunday interview with BBC Ukraine that those demanding referendums in eastern Ukraine are simply “citizens of another state,” for whom the borders of the country “must be closed.” 


*"FASCISM WILL NOT PASS" - THOUSANDS RALLY IN KHARKOV AGAINST ILLEGITIMATE GOVERNMENT IN KIEV*


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> They are talking about seceding from the union in the state of Texas. I wonder what would happen if they had a referendum on secession and it passed? Oh, sorry. We already know. The federal government would send in troops like they did in 1861-1865.
> 
> Secession is* NOT* allowed in the United States, only in countries that the United States and its allies see fit to dismember.
> 
> - Mike


Cool. I hardly see what that has to do with the former Finnish areas seceding from Russia, but whatever. 


And you don't need to prove USA's government's hypocrisy to me, I like them probably almost as little as you do.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> Cool. I hardly see what that has to do with the former Finnish areas seceding from Russia, but whatever.
> 
> 
> And you don't need to prove USA's government's hypocrisy to me, I like them probably almost as little as you do.


I'm glad we agree on something! :cool2

What I was getting at is that if one believes in the right to secession, that right should belong to all regions, territories, states, etc. 

The U.S. picks and chooses based on its agenda at the time. None of the 50 states have the right to secede. The 11 states that attempted that were forced back into the union after a bloody 5 year civil war.*****

However, if the U.S. deems that another country should be split up that's OK!

In principle, if the Finnish regions of the former Soviet Union want to reunite with Finland I would have no problem with that. However, most of the people there are Russian and their economies are intertwined with Russia, so I doubt a referendum on the subject would pass. 

The key word here is "referendum," *NOT* insurgency.

- Mike

***** Just as a footnote for those who are unaware, the American Civil War was *NOT* fought over the issue of slavery. The issue was *STATES' RIGHTS* and the right of *SECESSION*. 

The slavery issue came up midway through the war when the union was getting its ass kicked by the troops of the Confederate States of America. Lincoln needed something to rally the people and the troops who were depressed and tired. 

As a matter of fact, prior to the beginning of the American Civil War Lincon stated, in substance, "If I can save the union by freeing all the slaves I would. If I could save the union by freeing some of the slaves I would. If I could save the union and not free one slave, I would."

"Honest" Abe might have been against slavery in principle, but it was *NOT* his first concern. Lincoln's foremost concern was keeping the union together which, in turn, made his power stronger being the president of a united country.


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## Oakue (Jul 16, 2012)

roadkill_ said:


> Russia is permitted to have up to 25,000 troops in the Autonomous Republic of Crimea. They have done nothing illegal.


This is such an under reported fact by the Western media and politicians hell bent on brainwashing the Western public into thinking the Soviet Union is back and Putin is some deadly zombie combination of Hitler and Stalin.

Here it all is, outlined completely.


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

Oakue said:


> This is such an under reported fact by the Western media and politicians hell bent on brainwashing the Western public into thinking the Soviet Union is back and Putin is some deadly zombie combination of Hitler and Stalin.
> 
> Here it all is, outlined completely.


I'm no longer convinced they're even Russian troops, not all of them anyway. Now that's not to say there are no Russians on the ground. But I think the bulk are militia being mentored by Spetsnaz officers.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

roadkill_ said:


> I'm no longer convinced they're even Russian troops, not all of them anyway. Now that's not to say there are no Russians on the ground. But I think the bulk are militia being mentored by Spetsnaz officers.


They've admitted themselves that they're Russians.


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> I'm glad we agree on something! :cool2
> 
> What I was getting at is that if one believes in the right to secession, that right should belong to all regions, territories, states, etc.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I know we'll never get back the regions lost after WWII. I was just being hypothetical.


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

TomasThunder619 said:


> They've admitted themselves that they're Russians.


They admitted that every single armed uniformed man in Crimea is an official Russian serviceman? 

Link...


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

roadkill_ said:


> They admitted that every single armed uniformed man in Crimea is an official Russian serviceman?
> 
> Link...







At 0:58 he says 'we are Russian'.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

MailOnline - news, sport, celebrity, science and health stories

Has Blackwater been deployed to Ukraine? 

*Notorious U.S. mercenaries 'seen on the streets of flashpoint city' as Russia claims 300 hired guns have arrived in country. Unidentified armed men seen on the streets of Donetsk in east Ukraine. Russian diplomat claims 300 mercenaries had arrived in Kiev this week. Mercenaries in the region could give Putin pretext for military action. Donetsk has been the scene of big pro-Russian demonstrations this week.[/*

By Damien Gayle 

PUBLISHED: 17:49 EST, 8 March 2014 | UPDATED: 04:07 EST, 9 March 2014 

Speculation was growing last night that American mercenaries had been deployed to Donetsk after videos emerged of unidentified armed men in the streets of the eastern Ukrainian city.

At least two videos published on YouTube earlier this week show burly, heavily armed soldiers with no insignia in the city, which has been gripped by pro-Moscow protests.

In one of the videos onlookers can be heard shouting 'Blackwater! Blackwater!' as the armed men, who wear no insignia, jog through the streets.

*Donetsk was this week the scene of civil unrest as pro-Russian elements among its citizens seized control of the regional 
administration headquarters and another government building*.

*Yesterday thousands of people gathered in the city centre waving Russian flags and calling for a referendum to determine the status of the strategically important coal-mining region*.

Both the videos which purport to show 'Blackwater' mercenaries in Donetsk were uploaded last Monday, with their descriptions written in Russian. 

The context of the videos is not clear, but it appears that the armed men had turned up at a street protest against the new regime. They wander around brandishing their weapons before suddenly fleeing the scene as passers-by shout 'Blackwater! Blackwater!'

*Since the videos emerged, Twitter has been alive with speculation that mercenaries linked to Blackwater, now known as Academi, are active in Ukraine, helping to prop up the embattled new pro-western government.
*
And a Russian diplomat in Kiev told the Interfax news agency on Wednesday that 300 employees of private security companies had arrived there. 

'These are soldiers of fortune proficient in combat operations. Most of them had operated under private contracts in Iraq, Afghanistan and other states,' the source said. Interfax reported that the diplomat did not disclose the nationalities of the mercenaries but said, *'Most of them come from the United States'*.

Asked whether the soldiers seen in the videos could be from Academi, Dr Nafeez Ahmed, a security expert with the Institute for Policy Research & Development, said: ‘Difficult to say really. *It's certainly not beyond the realm of possibility - Academi have been deployed in all sorts of theatres. 
*
'I think the question is whether the evidence available warrants at least reasonable speculation.

‘*On the face of it, the uniforms of the people in the videos are consistent with US mercs - they don't look like Russian soldiers mercs. 
*
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ry-outfit-deployed-Donetsk.html#ixzz2vahBjbx7 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

*US deploys fighter jets in Poland and Lithuania amid Ukrainian turmoil*

he US is sending a dozen F-16 fighter jets and nearly 300 service personnel to Poland by Thursday as part of a training exercise in response to the crisis in neighboring Ukraine, the Polish defense ministry confirmed.

The agreement to deploy US military forces in Poland was made between US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel, and Poland’s Minister of National Defense Tomasz Siemoniak during a telephone conversation on Sunday, March 9, 2014, according to a statement on the official website of the Polish Ministry of National Defense.

"The squadron will number twelve F-16 planes and will transport 300 soldiers," Polish Defense Ministry spokesman, Jacek Sonta, confirmed to AFP.

Initially, the training exercise was planned to be smaller but was increased and pushed forward because of the “tense political situation” in neighboring Ukraine, added Sonta.

The ministry also said that the aim of sending the units is to “strengthen Polish - American cooperation.” Part of the preparation team of US Air Force has already arrived on Polish territory.

The fighters were sent on the initiative of the Polish government, an initiative immediately accepted by Washington.

On Monday, NATO also gave the go-ahead to Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) for reconnaissance flights over Poland and Romania in order help monitor the crisis in Ukraine.

Poland is a western neighbor of crisis-torn Ukraine - between the countries’ capitals, Warsaw and Kiev, there is less than 700 km.

Earlier, the Polish media reported that US fighter jets would be stationed at the Lask air force base in central Poland.

Washington is also sending four F-15 planes to Lithuania in response to “Russian aggression in Ukraine and increased military activity in Kaliningrad,” according to the Lithuanian Defense Ministry.

http://rt.com/news/us-fighter-jets-poland-830/


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

TomasThunder619 said:


> At 0:58 he says 'we are Russian'.


lol that doesn't mean shit. Drive around north America for 25 minutes, you'll find someone who says the same thing.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

KHARKOV CROWD PELTS KLICHKO WITH EGGS, FIRECRACKERS



In Kharkov, a scornful crowd threw eggs and firecrackers at junta plotter Vitaly Klichko, leader of the UDAR faction. Klichko was speaking at a rally “For Unity” when patriotic elements present loudly shouted “shame” and “fascist”. At the end of his spiel, the crowd pelted the boxer with eggs, firecrackers, and even stones. Klichko’s kowtowing bodyguards tried to protect their master from flying objects using opened umbrellas as a shield.

10 March 2014

Nakanune.ru


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> *US deploys fighter jets in Poland and Lithuania amid Ukrainian turmoil*
> 
> he US is sending a dozen F-16 fighter jets and nearly 300 service personnel to Poland by Thursday as part of a training exercise in response to the crisis in neighboring Ukraine, the Polish defense ministry confirmed.
> 
> ...


The USA can’t do much. It has no military forces to send; the troops are war-weary, and they’d rebel at one more pointless oligarch war. It has no money to spend; the government wasted it all on useless wars of aggression over the last two decades. In short, the USA is a paper tiger that roars and roars, but can’t do a single thing. 

And as an FYI, one battery of S-300s in Belarus under the "*Byelorussian-Russian Joint Air Defense Command*" could knock out those twelve F-16s before they got anywhere near their targets. Belarus and Russia haven't been conducting massive joint military exercises over the last decade for fun. Given the geometric increase in NATO and US aggression around the world, they have been seriously preparing for a NATO incursion on their western borders.

Guys, this won't be Libya! Washington and Brussels, if you "*WANT SOME, COME GET SOME*!"

- Mike


----------



## Thad Castle (Jul 8, 2006)

Thought this would have went away by now..


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

KIEV JAILS REGIONAL POLITICIAN WHO SPOKE OUT AGAINST THE COUP AND OUSTER OF YANUKOVICH









_*Mikhail Dobkin, who intended to run in the upcoming presidential election in Ukraine, was arrested today on trumped up charges of "inciting secession," because he spoke his mind regarding the coup and ouster of Yanukovich*_.

SIMFEROPOL, March 11 (RIA Novosti) – A Ukrainian politician who headed an eastern Russian-speaking region until earlier this month has been detained for inciting secession, prosecutors said.

*Mikhail Dobkin, who was removed from his post in the Kharkov Region on March 2 to run in the upcoming presidential election, could face up to five years in prison for “attacks on the territorial integrity and independence of Ukraine*,” the Prosecutor General’s Office said in a statement.

The move signals a growing inclination by Ukraine’s new government to combat calls for the country’s eastern Russian-speaking regions to follow in the footsteps of Crimea, where a popular vote on secession and possible annexation by Russia is scheduled for Sunday.

Dobkin, who was detained on Monday in Kiev, was initially placed under investigation following comments he made at a roundtable on post-crisis Ukraine on February 12.

He also participated in an assembly of Russian-speaking regions held in the city of Kharkov, Ukraine’s second-largest city, where he spoke out against the interim authorities in Kiev following the ouster of pro-Russian President Viktor Yanukovych late last month.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Ousted Ukrainian President Warns of Civil War










MOSCOW, March 11 (RIA Novosti) – Ousted Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych warned on Tuesday that "dark forces" are working to foment civil war in the troubled former Soviet nation.

During a short address in the southern Russian city of Rostov-on-Don, Yanukovych insisted that he not only remains Ukraine’s president, but that he is also still the head of the armed forces.

Yanukovych last month fled the Ukrainian capital, Kiev, leaving a power vacuum quickly filled by opposition groups that had for months been protesting a government decision to back away from a proposed deal to bolster economic and political relations with the European Union.

The appearance follows persistent reports in Ukrainian media that Yanukovych had died of unspecified causes, speculation that he sought to stamp out in Tuesday’s statement.

“I would like to say that I'm alive and I feel good,” he said.

Yanukovych said that *a presidential election planned to take place in Ukraine on May 25 would be “absolutely illegitimate,” and that any government formed as a result of the election would be illegal*.

The exiled leader, who has said he is living with an “old friend” in Rostov-on-Don, criticized the United States for supplying the new government in Kiev with $1 billion of aid that he said even violated domestic US law.

“I want to ask the patrons of these dark forces in the west – have you been blinded, have you forgotten what fascism is?” Yanukovych asked.

“*As far as I am aware, the laws of the United States forbid the provision of financial aid to any state where the legally elected president has been overthrown,” he said. “I intend to appeal to Congress, the Senate and the Constitutional Court*.”

Yanukovych urged the international community to reject what he described as the unconstitutional coup that led to his flight.

"[*Kiev] is being patrolled by masked men wearing armbands*. There are growing outrages against the citizens of Ukraine,” he said. “They have fired top army officers, those who do not want to use the armed forces against the civilian population in the southeast of the country.”

*Yanukovych also accused interim authorities of planning to give weapons to what he called “militant nationalist organizations*.”

On February 22, Yanukovych was impeached by erstwhile protesters who took control of parliament and banded together with disaffected deputies from the ex-ruling Party of Regions.

*The impeachment vote came one day after opposition parties signed an agreement with Yanukovych on a political settlement to form a unity government, call early elections and reform the constitution.
*
That proposed arrangement was superseded by events, however, when the opposition occupied the Verkhovna Rada, Ukraine’s parliament, as police disappeared from the center of Kiev.

Tuesday’s speech was Yanukovych’s second public appearance in Russia since he fled Kiev last month. Unlike his first press conference, which was also in Rostov-on-Don, Yanukovych did not take questions from reporters Tuesday.

He did not mention the situation in the southern Ukrainian peninsula of Crimea, which has been overrun by Russian troops in recent weeks ahead of a referendum on joining Russia scheduled for March 16.

Yanukovych said that he still has plans to go back to Ukraine.

“As soon as circumstances allow, I will definitely return to Kiev,” he said. 

Updates with background, more quotes and new headline


----------



## ice_edge (Aug 4, 2011)

Thad Castle said:


> Thought this would have went away by now..


*Quite frankly for me it feels like this thread has been hijacked by multi posts but I guess I can't do much about it so I just come in here to see if there are any fresh faces(so far no luck)...man this discussions sure would need a Dib to make it interesting again for me. *


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

ice_edge said:


> *Quite frankly for me it feels like this thread has been hijacked by multi-quotes but I guess I can't do much about it so I just come in here to see if there are any fresh faces(so far no luck)...man this discussions sure would need a Dib to make it interesting again for me. *


Nope. Sadly, it seems like it's just one person reposting everything he sees on RT. Almost like a spambot.


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

The S-400 has succeeded the S-300 in Russia. Not that NATO has anything that can defeat even the S-300 anyway.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

roadkill_ said:


> The S-400 has succeeded the S-300 in Russia. Not that NATO has anything that can defeat even the S-300 anyway.


You're right, but the S-400s haven't been fully deployed yet and alot of S-300 systems are still out there. I saw some videos of them testing these on drone planes and missiles. They are deadly accurate.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> Nope. Sadly, it seems like it's just one person reposting everything he sees on RT. Almost like a spambot.


Just posting the news as it happens, Tomas. It gives people a chance to read the other side that they are not getting in their local papers and TV news reports.

If the US and EU countries would report on everything that's happening I wouldn't bother. For example, how many media outlets in the West reported on the arrest of the Kharkov presidential candidate for criticizing the Maidan Mob and the coup???

Oh, I guess I would be spamming if I mentioned that *the Crimean Parliament just declared its secession from Ukraine by a vote of 78 to 22 ahead of the referendum scheduled for March 16th.
*
- Mike


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> Just posting the news as it happens, Tomas. It gives people a chance to read the other side that they are not getting in their local papers and TV news reports.
> 
> If the US and EU countries would report on everything that's happening I wouldn't bother. For example, how many media outlets in the West reported on the arrest of the Kharkov presidential candidate for criticizing the Maidan Mob and the coup???
> 
> ...


That is not spamming. Tomas was referring to you just copy/pasting news from RT (or other sources) to this topic. And to be honest, it does make you seem like a spambot.


----------



## ice_edge (Aug 4, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Just posting the news as it happens, Tomas. It gives people a chance to read the other side that they are not getting in their local papers and TV news reports.
> 
> If the US and EU countries would report on everything that's happening I wouldn't bother. For example, how many media outlets in the West reported on the arrest of the Kharkov presidential candidate for criticizing the Maidan Mob and the coup???
> 
> ...



*Yeah I don't mind that Mike. What I do mind is you not listening to when I say that there is a edit button. You can edit in anything you wish. Just please use the button and stop the multi posting. It's really an eye sore. I'm saying this because personally it devalues this thread to me and I actually want to be part of it from time to time.

Ok back to Ukraine topic.*


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Cue Batko to come up with some wackjob comment saying Vice antagonized the Russki's


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Al Borland said:


> Cue Batko to come up with some wackjob comment saying Vice antagonized the Russki's


As the guy said, "They let us go. We're very lucky." Yeah, they were very lucky they weren't grabbed up by the Maidan Mob's street patrols in Kiev. They might not have gotten off so easy.

Is that comment wackjob enough for you Al???

- Mike


----------



## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)




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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Ukrainian lady said, "This is my last chance to protest, because in a few days Crimea will become Russian and protesting will become illegal."

*Well, then she will be in the same boat as the people who oppose the Maidan mob who have not been allowed to voice their opinion since the illegal coup d'etat by the Western Ukrainian ultra-nationalists*.

Human rights violated by Ukraine’s coup-appointed govt – European NGO
Published time: March 12, 2014 17:11 
The new government in Ukraine is violating human rights and oppressing national minorities, *a Poland-based NGO said*, adding that *the actions of the Maidan leaders would be considered illegal in most EU states*.

*Mateush Piskorski, a Polish MP and head of the European Center for Geopolitical Analysis*, said: “The dominant political forces who participated in the so-called Euromaidan” are calling “for major violations of human rights, mainly to violations of the rights of national minorities.” 

Piskorski told Itar-Tass that his organization sent several groups of experts to Ukraine during the unrest. They interviewed the protesters and gathered all sorts of materials, including leaflets distributed by the Maidan activists in the streets. 

“*It’s not hard to detect calls for incitement of ethnic hatred [in those materials*],” the Polish MP said. 

Piskorski said that *Ukraine is engulfed in a wave of political repressions*, which are aimed not only against the representatives of the Party of Regions’ ousted president, Viktor Yanukovich, “*but other political parties and associations*, for example, the Communists.” 

“We’ve have heard a lot about cases of *physical attacks on representatives of the parties, which are in opposition to the new government,*” he said. 

Piskorski said that the main political powers which staged the Maidan, “*would’ve been labeled as neo-Nazi or neo-Fascist in any mainstream civilized European state*.” “Those are the forces, whose activities would most likely be banned in most of the EU states,” he said.


_*Or, if you are suspected of being against the Maidan Mob and coup d'etat you are kidnaped, interrogated, beaten, and forced to recant on video*._
'I'll hang you by the balls and have you f***ed' – Ukrainian presidential hopeful abducts pro-Russian MP





Klinchev, still handcuffed, is then dragged into a bus, where one of the men who abducted him lectures him on his pro-Russian stance. *He promises to hang him “by the balls” and “call an army to f**k you*”.


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> The Ukrainian lady said, "This is my last chance to protest, because in a few days Crimea will become Russian and protesting will become illegal."
> 
> *Well, then she will be in the same boat as the people who oppose the Maidan mob who have not been allowed to voice their opinion since the illegal coup d'etat by the Western Ukrainian ultra-nationalists*.


It's not HER fault. And now she will suffer. Is that what you think is right? Innocent people suffering?


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> It's not HER fault. And now she will suffer. Is that what you think is right? Innocent people suffering?


No, Tomas. What I think is not right is that you and some others *completely ignore *the fact the the Maidan Mob took power by force; keeps power by force; abuses the rights of national minorities; physically assaults politicians who disagree with the Maidan Mob agenda and coup; and, for all intents and purposes, conducts itself exactly like the brown shirts back in 1933 Germany.

Somehow, to you whatever the insurgents do is OK or can be overlooked or totally ignored. But, when the ethnic Russian minority and Russian speaking Ukrainians demonstrate and defend themselves you start pointing fingers and saying, "Look, look. They are doing it, too."

Your ultra-nationalists started and created this mess. Everthing (including Russian reaction) that is occuring is in reaction to and because of the coup d'etat that your heroes started and their violent, Nazi conduct toward anyone who disagrees with them.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> No, Tomas. What I think is not right is that you and some others *completely ignore *the fact the the Maidan Mob took power by force; keeps power by force; abuses the rights of national minorities; physically assaults politicians who disagree with the Maidan Mob agenda and coup; and, for all intents and purposes, conducts itself exactly like the brown shirts back in 1933 Germany.
> 
> Somehow, to you whatever the insurgents do is OK or can be overlooked or totally ignored. But, when the ethnic Russian minority and Russian speaking Ukrainians demonstrate and defend themselves you start pointing fingers and saying, "Look, look. They are doing it, too."
> 
> ...


I don't ignore it at all. I acknowledge the fact that Putin's puppet regime was overthrown by force and that the current government in Kiev is non-elected. But there's gonna be election soon, so don't worry about that. Exact same situation is in Crimea and you blindly defend the non-elected government, who got there by force, just as in Kiev. You are so deluded and ultra-one sided, that it is useless to argue with you. In Crimea and Kiev: both governments were overthrown by force, both of them are non-elected, in both cities there are protests for and against the government. Yet you blame one side and defend the other. Open your eyes and see that these are the same things. Putin has brainwashed you pretty well I see. Your support of Imperialism overshadowed your brain. I believe that you are a smart person, Mike.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> I don't ignore it at all. I acknowledge the fact that Putin's puppet regime was overthrown by force and that the current government in Kiev is non-elected. .


Putin's puppet regime??? The government was elected by the people, *NOT* Putin. How about the West's puppet regime when Yushchenko was in power from 2005 to 2010? He lost the election in 2005, but thanks to the West's support he managed to cause enough trouble to get an instant replay and suddenly become president.

Yushchenko and Tymoshenko both lost the election in 2010 to Yanukovich, but that time the West acknowldged his victory and legitimacy. 




TomasThunder619 said:


> But there's gonna be election soon, so don't worry about that. Exact same situation is in Crimea and you blindly defend the non-elected government, who got there by force, just as in Kiev. .


There's going to be an election soon with Western Ukrainian ultra-nationalists' guns pointed at people's heads and the coup leaders counting the votes. Even if it was a fair, unbiased election (which it won't be) the illegitimate government has no legal right to conduct it.

What happened in Crimea only occured because of insurgency by the Maidan Mob in Kiev. I defend the Crimea with completely open eyes. The big difference between Kiev and Crimea is that in Crimea that didn't run around torching buildings, shooting police (or anyone else for that matter).




TomasThunder619 said:


> . You are so deluded and ultra-one sided, that it is useless to argue with you. In Crimea and Kiev: both governments were overthrown by force, both of them are non-elected, in both cities there are protests for and against the government. Yet you blame one side and defend the other. Open your eyes and see that these are the same things. .


In your fascist mind you will never understand that these are not the same things. Crimea took action to defend itself against the Maidan Mob and its brown shirt tactics. It was the Maidan Mob's coup d'etat and subsequent actions that caused the situation in Crimea, Mikolayev, Sevatopol, Kherson, Lugansk, Donetsk, Dnepropetrovsk, Zaporozhia, and Kharkov regions in southern and eastern Ukraine.

The Western Ukrainian fascists only had to wait less than a year for elections. They didn't wait because they didn't believe that they had enough votes to oust Yanukovich. So, with the support and encouragement of the United States and European Union they launched their revolution.

*EVERYTHING THAT HAS OCCURED IS A RESULT AND REACTION TO THE INSURGENCY AND COUP D'ETAT BY THE WESTERN UKRAINIAN ULTRA-NATIONALISTS!!!*So, it is not the same thing.




TomasThunder619 said:


> Putin has brainwashed you pretty well I see. Your support of Imperialism overshadowed your brain. I believe that you are a smart person, Mike.


Neither Putin, nor anyone else has brainwashed me. And, I certainly don't support imperialism. But, I also don't support an armed insurgency that overthrows a country's legitimately elected president and government. On the other hand, I support the people who are taking counter-measures to defend themselves against the illegal government that is trying to put its boot on their neck.

I, also, believe that you are a smart person, Tomas. Fascists are not necessarily stupid. By the way, don't you have a Waffen SS meeting to attend in Riga in the next couple of days??? If I'm not mistaken your people are marching on the 16th to show support for the Nazi collaborators who wore the Waffen SS uniform during the war. Let us know how it turned out when you get back.

- Mike


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

killing people is bad

unless its people I don't like being killed in which case its good


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Neither Putin, nor anyone else has brainwashed me. And, I certainly don't support imperialism. But, I also don't support an armed insurgency that overthrows a countries legitimately elected president and government. On the other hand, I support the people who are taking counter-measures to defend themselves against the illegal government that is trying to put its boot on their neck.


*Imperialism: a policy of extending a country's power and influence through colonization, use of military force, or other means.*

Russia is doing just that and you support it. Do you think that everyone around here, except for you, is stupid? Go ahead and try to deny it.



stevefox1200 said:


> killing people is bad
> 
> unless its people I don't like being killed in which case its good


It seems that's the ideology he believes in.


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

TomasThunder619 said:


> *Imperialism: a policy of extending a country's power and influence through colonization, use of military force, or other means.*
> 
> Russia is doing just that and you support it. Do you think that everyone around here, except for you, is stupid? Go ahead and try to deny it.
> 
> ...


Ugh... Iraq. Afghanistan. And in Crimea, not a shot fired, where 25k Russian troops are allowed.

Fail.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

roadkill_ said:


> Ugh... Iraq. Afghanistan. And in Crimea, not a shot fired, where 25k Russian troops are allowed.
> 
> Fail.


You can be agasint Russia's actions as well as being agasint Iraq and Afghanistan

Not everyone views this as WEST VS RUSSIA


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

stevefox1200 said:


> Not everyone views this as WEST VS RUSSIA


*EXCEPT FOR THE WEST AND RUSSIA!*













Sukhoi-27 Flanker Jet Fighter ready to engage US/NATO F-16s

RUSSIA SENDS 6 SUKHOI-27 FIGHTER JETS & 3 MILITARY TRANSPORT PLANES TO BABRUISK AIRBASE AS BELARUS DIGS IN TO ANSWER A NATO INCURSION

MINSK, March 13 (RIA Novosti) – Six Russian Su-27 fighter jets and three military transport planes with ground support personnel arrived Thursday at an airbase in Belarus to boost the airspace defenses of the two countries' Union State, the Russian Defense Ministry said.

The ministry said the aircraft from the Western military district have been deployed to the Babruysk airbase in line with a bilateral agreement on the joint protection of the Union State's airspace.

Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko had said earlier that Belarus would ask Russia to deploy up to 15 combat aircraft on its territory in response to increased NATO military activity along the country’s borders.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Batko is this some kind of weapon dick measuring contest?

Fighter specs and anti air specs are shit because no modern fighter or anti air has been tested in an actual theater of war with an enemy with modern weaponry

The F-35 wins most global jet war simulators but it means shit because they aren't even used in an actual theater 

Didn't you say you where from Belarus? Why the massive interest in this junk?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

stevefox1200 said:


> Batko is this some kind of weapon dick measuring contest?
> 
> Fighter specs and anti air specs are shit because no modern fighter or anti air has been tested in an actual theater of war with an enemy with modern weaponry
> 
> ...


Why? It's pretty simple. Belarus has been a target of the U.S. regime change agenda for a long time now, albeit without success on the part of Washington. With the successful coup and regime change in Kiev, the good old boys in Washington are going to be hopped up and very well could get a little too over confident regarding Belarus.

Of course, it would be a mistake since Minsk has learned the lessons of Serbia, Kosovo, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya. The key to stopping any US/NATO incursion is to have a good air defense and airforce capability. To that end the Byelorussian military has been deploying S-300 (and now S-400) SAM defense systems throughout the country. 

Any attempt by US/NATO forces to bomb Belarus into submission with Tomahawks like they did in Libya would be futile. The S-300/400 SAMs would be able to intercept those weapons as well as take out advancing fighter jets. The joint Byelorussian-Russian Air Command could hold off any attack until help came from Russia. 

There would be so many coffins coming back draped in the various flags of NATO states that the public outcry in those countries would put a quick end to any further warmongering on the part of NATO. 

*BELARUS AIN'T LIBYA, BOYS! I'M BETTING THE SCHOOLYARD BULLY ISN'T GOING TO TAKE A CHANCE IN BELARUS SINCE IT WON'T BE AS EASY PICKINGS AS IN SERBIA, KOSOVO, IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN, AND LIBYA. *

P.S. *THE NAZIS FOUND OUT THE HARD WAY EVEN AFTER THEY OCCUPIED THE COUNTRY. NATO CAN HAVE THE SAME LESSON IF THEY SO DESIRE! *


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

roadkill_ said:


> Ugh... Iraq. Afghanistan. And in Crimea, not a shot fired, where 25k Russian troops are allowed.
> 
> Fail.





stevefox1200 said:


> You can be agasint Russia's actions as well as being agasint Iraq and Afghanistan
> 
> Not everyone views this as WEST VS RUSSIA


This. I'm not one sided, like some people here. I never said that I agree with USA's intervention into any other country as well as I don't with Russia's.


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## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

aw man I didnt know batko's country existed until that one skiier in the olympics who did the thing


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

CamillePunk said:


> aw man I didnt know batko's country existed until that one skiier in the olympics who did the thing


I wish Washington didn't know Belarus existed! :argh:

Unfortunately, it does know and also knows the strategic value to NATO and the economic value to Western capital. 

After The Great Patriotic War, i.e. WW II, the Byelorussian SSR was transformed from a war torn agrarian republic into the "workshop" of the Soviet Union. While lacking most major natural resources, Belarus has a highly educated population and a solid industrial base including a system of oil refineries. 

After the dissolution of the USSR Western capital, and especially U.S. capital, planned to march into Belarus and buy up most major industries for pennies on the dollar like they did in other post-Soviet republics. They were starting to make headway with their plans in the first two years of the existence of independent Belarus. In 1992 and 1993 the *UNELECTED* West friendly, ultra-nationalist regime of scumbags Stanislav Shushkevich and Vyacheslav Kebich were ready to sell out the country to Western capital and pocket a good piece of change.

Counting on the Byelorussian people's naivete the leeches held elections in 1994 to legitimatize their hold on the country. They were completely taken off guard when the people voted in Alexander Grigoriyevich Lukashenko, the head of the Anti-Corruption Task Force and the ONE and ONLY member of the former BSSR's Supreme Soviet to vote against the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

When the West realized that Lukashenko cared more about the welfare of his people than selling off the country to Western capital, the inevitable campaign of demonization started. In one voice the newspapers, radio, and TV of the U.S. and its allies began to attack President Lukashenko non-stop. Tens of millions of dollars were funneled to supposed "opposition" parties which were, in fact, created by the West and were, in reality, fifth column movements.

18 years later President Lukashenko is still at the helm, and of all 15 post-Soviet republics (including Russia) Belarus is in number one place for health care, education, and social welfare. It also has the lowest infant mortality rate and lowest unemployment rate of the 15 former republics. It would probably be doing even better if the U.S. and E.U. weren't constantly putting sanctions on its economy.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> I wish Washington didn't know Belarus existed! :argh:
> 
> Unfortunately, it does know and also knows the strategic value to NATO and the economic value to Western capital.
> 
> After The Great Patriotic War, i.e. WW II, the Byelorussian SSR was transformed from a war torn agrarian republic into the "workshop" of the Soviet Union. While lacking most major natural resources, Belarus has a highly educated population and a solid industrial base including a system of oil refineries.


If Belarus was so happy in the Soviet Union, why did they declare independence then? They could have just stayed with Russia.

Also,



Batko10 said:


> *UNELECTED* West friendly, ultra-nationalist regime of scumbags


fpalm


----------



## Thad Castle (Jul 8, 2006)

roadkill_ said:


> Ugh... Iraq. Afghanistan. And in Crimea, not a shot fired, where 25k Russian troops are allowed.
> 
> Fail.


Why not bring up what Russia did in Afghanistan? You know they fought a war there right? Where they committed genocide and rape right?


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> If Belarus was so happy in the Soviet Union, why did they declare independence then? They could have just stayed with Russia.
> 
> Also,
> 
> ...


The Byelorussian people didn't declare independence from the Soviet Union, the charlatans who were in the SSR's power structure saw a chance to make a buck from the situation. 

And, stay with the Russia being run by the murderer and drunkard Boris Yeltsin??? His was the criminal regime that gave away all the wealth built by the people to the gangsters that helped Yeltsin usurp power and dissolve the Soviet Union. Yeltsin's regime created the "oligarch" class in Russia. And, Shushkevich was interested in raping Belarus himself. He didn't need any help from the chief rapist, Yeltsin.

Also, you can "face palm" all you want, but Shushkevich and Kebich were *NOT* elected officials running the country. They were in the power structure of the BSSR and kept running the country for two years after the dissolution of the USSR for their own economic benefit, not the benefit of the people.

- Mike


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## Green (Dec 12, 2006)

Russia can literally do whatever they want in Europe. Whether or not they are in the wrong here I don't know, but thats still a scary situation.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Thad Castle said:


> Why not bring up what Russia did in Afghanistan? You know they fought a war there right? Where they committed genocide and rape right?


*Let's stick to post-Soviet events that occurred after the Cold War "ended" and the Soviet Union was dissolved.* If we go into the communism vs. capitalism period we will get mired down in myriad acts by both sides such as the U.S. invasion and genocide in Vietnam.

After the dissolution of the Soviet Union in December of 1991 the West agreed to dissolve NATO and accept Russia into the "family" of western nations. Unfortunately, for the next two decades the West continued to build NATO, surround post-Soviet Russia with missile bases, engineer regime changes in post-Soviet republics, and bomb and invade sovereign nations.

For the decade of the 1990s Russia was OK with Washington, because they had the drunk Yeltsin running things and closing opposition newspapers, using tanks to blow up the Parliament (DUMA) when it wouldn't vote his way, allowing western companies free reign on the Russian markets, and letting the nation's military deteriorate into oblivion. The U.S. had its puppet/stooge in charge in the Kremlin.

That all changed when Yeltsin was forced out of office and Putin took his place. Russia started to rebuild from a decade of destruction (my apologies to 'Taker for using his line) - especially, the military. All of a sudden Russia was becoming a competitor and "threat" to the United States hegemony.

During the 22 years since the dissolution of the USSR and the end of the Cold War* the United States has*:
- *BOMBED SERBIA*
- *CARVED KOSOVO OUT OF SERBIA *(setting the precedent for today's Crimea)
- *INVADED AFGHANISTAN*
- *INVADED IRAQ*
- *USED TOMAHAWK MISSILES TO BOMB LIBYA INTO SUBMISSION*
- *ALMOST TRIPLED THE SIZE OF NATO DESPITE PROMISES TO DISSOLVE THE WAR MONGERING ALLIANCE.
*- *ENGINEERED MYRIAD REGIME CHANGES AND INTERFERED WITH THE INTERNAL AFFAIRS OF SOVEREIGN NATIONS.*
- *SPENT HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ARMING GEORGIA AND THEN TACITLY SUPPORTING PSYCHO SAAKASHVILI'S ATTACK ON SOUTH OSSETIA*.
- *CREATED A MISSILE SHIELD ON RUSSIA'S BORDERS IN AN ATTEMPT TO BOX IN AND STRANGLE THE COUNTRY*.

During the same 22 year time frame the Russian Federation has only been involved in *ONE* brief war outside its borders:
- *CAME TO THE AID OF SOUTH OSSETIA WHEN SAAKASHVILI SENT 40 TANKS PURCHASED WITH AMERICAN AID INTO THE SMALL AUTONOMOUS REGION THAT WAS UNDER U.N. PROTECTION*.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> During the 22 years since the dissolution of the USSR and the end of the Cold War* the United States has*:
> - *BOMBED SERBIA*
> - *CARVED KOSOVO OUT OF SERBIA *(setting the precedent for today's Crimea)
> - *INVADED AFGHANISTAN*
> ...


See, this is your problem. You see EVERYTHING that US has done wrong and NOTHING that Russia has done wrong. You talk about others being one-sided, better start with yourself.

And calling names everyone you don't like doesn't make you look any smarter.


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## Colsworl (Jun 3, 2006)

What is up with Belarus? It's a big Country in Eastern Europe yet I hear almost nothing about it. Completely shrouded in silence and mystery to many.

There are almost 10 million people in Belarus yet for example, air travel in the Country is tiny in comparison to its western neighbours. Very few travel there for tourism and also it seems, very few travel out if it either.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> See, this is your problem. You see EVERYTHING that US has done wrong and NOTHING that Russia has done wrong. You talk about others being one-sided, better start with yourself.
> 
> And calling names everyone you don't like doesn't make you look any smarter.


Tomas, if I'm missing something that Russia did in the past 22 years since the dissolution of the Soviet Union please add to the list. Otherwise, it is quite evident who has been the aggressor the last two decades.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Colsworl said:


> What is up with Belarus? It's a big Country in Eastern Europe yet I hear almost nothing about it. Completely shrouded in silence and mystery to many.
> 
> There are almost 10 million people in Belarus yet for example, air travel in the Country is tiny in comparison to its western neighbours. Very few travel there for tourism and also it seems, very few travel out if it either.


It's "shrouded in mystery" only because the mass media in the West only mentions it when they are bad mouthing President Lukashenko and the government.

During the first six months of *2012 *(January through June) *2.8 million *foreigners visited Belarus. For the entire year of 2011 *5.8 million *foreign tourists came to Belarus.

Every citizen of Belarus has the right of free travel in and out of the country. In *2011* there were *791* companies in the tourism business in Belarus who in total served *510,000* customers (organized tours). 

The state airline, *BELAVIA*, is not large, but services destinations in *Europe*, *Asia*, and *Africa* from Minsk International Airport.

*BELAVIA INTERNATIONAL ROUTES*







[/URL][/IMG]


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## Colsworl (Jun 3, 2006)

This is an interesting article I found on Belarus claiming to tell the story of various people in Belarus. It seems it is indeed a place shrouded in mystery. On the surface it appears a pleasant, clean and friendly place but the further you dig and the longer you live there you begin to realise all is not as it seems. Authority appear to have control of everything, from the media to crackdown on demonstrations etc.

Of course most likely another puppet show for the Russians. Sad really.

http://34mag.net/post/life-of-others/

Edit:



Batko10 said:


> It's "shrouded in mystery" only because the mass media in the West only mentions it when they are bad mouthing President Lukashenko and the government.
> 
> During the first six months of *2012 *(January through June) *2.8 million *foreigners visited Belarus. For the entire year of 2011 *5.8 million *foreign tourists came to Belarus.
> 
> ...


How on earth are these people getting to Belarus. Via land? In 2012 according to IATA less that 1.9 million passengers transited through the main airport in Minsk. The vast majority by the state run airline Belavia. Something doesn't add up.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Colsworl said:


> This is an interesting article I found on Belarus claiming to tell the story of various people in Belarus. It seems it is indeed a place shrouded in mystery. On the surface it appears a pleasant, clean and friendly place but the further you dig and the longer you live there you begin to realise all is not as it seems. Authority appear to have control of everything, from the media to crackdown on demonstrations etc.
> 
> Of course most likely another puppet show for the Russians. Sad really.
> 
> http://34mag.net/post/life-of-others/


Let's dig further and see what major complaints the foreign visitors to Belarus had in this article.

27 year old Gullermo from Mexico didn't like the way Byelorussians traded in the market place.
_"As for Belarusians, they work at the market like at a factory. If you ask for 20 grams they will give you 20 grams"_.
Apparently, he got what he paid for, but wasn't satisfied and wanted more.:argh:

He was also upset because it is not allowed to have picnics or trample the public grassy areas anywhere you feel like as he could do in Mexico.
"_In Mexico, you can have a picnic and play football in any green place. Here, once I went to Gorky Park just to lie on the grass, but everybody looked at me in disapproval_."
*ABSOLUTELY SHOCKING!* The city has laws to maintain order and beauty. Call for a coup d'etat!:faint: 

The young man was also upset that it was difficult to obtain a work visa, 
"_In order to get a Belarusian work visa, I had to gather more papers than my desk could hold_." 
It's absolutely horrible that Belarus makes sure its citizens are employed before worrying about giving work visas and jobs to foreigners! :lol


The next testimonial on the list is from 24 year old Simon of Belgium who apparently can't handle the fact that Belarus keeps its cities clean. 
_"The cleanliness in the streets irritates me. I like when there are graffiti and stencils on the walls"_. 
People in the West are used to filthy, grimy cities with grafitti everywhere. I can understand the cultural shock Simon must have experienced when he saw a clean, accurate Byelorussian city!  
CALL FOR NATO INTERVENTION! :lmao

The fact that Byelorussians like to eat meat also seems to upset Simon.
"_I became a vegetarian at the age of 12. If you don’t eat meat in Belarus, everybody tries to invite you over and give you some kind of meat_."
Gee, Byelorussians being hospitable??? Call out the F-16s! This outrage has to be stopped!!:gun:

In addition to his music studies, Simon participated in anti-government demonstrations organized by the "opposition," i.e. U.S. Embassy funded fifth column. 
"_There was a time when I participated in all demonstrations...I was at the Square on the 19th of December 2010 (U.S. Embassy engineered riot against Lukashenko's election). I escaped from the special police forces_." 
I guess Simon wasn't just in Belarus to learn music!

I could go through the other "testimonials," but it is basically the same nonsense that is supposed to depict Belarus in a negative light. However, if you read through the lines, it is just a bunch of whining young people who are complaining about cultural differences that they don't like for the most part. 

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Colsworl said:


> http://34mag.net/post/life-of-others/
> How on earth are these people getting to Belarus. Via land? In 2012 according to IATA less that 1.9 million passengers transited through the main airport in Minsk. The vast majority by the state run airline Belavia. Something doesn't add up.


Obviously, you are very astute. I should have mentioned that 70% of foreign tourists visiting Belarus go by car. Many also visit by train.

The majority of tourists visiting Belarus are European.

- Mike


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## Doc (Oct 4, 2010)

Mike lives in Belarus correct?

Then why on earth are people who don't live there (some don't even know where it is) are calling him out on stuff they've read on the internet?

Lol worthy.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Doc said:


> Mike lives in Belarus correct?
> 
> Then why on earth are people who don't live there (some don't even know where it is) are calling him out on stuff they've read on the internet?
> 
> Lol worthy.


I was born in the States. My family is from the Byelorussian SSR (Minsk and Grodno). I first went to Minsk, Byelorussian SSR in 1970 to visit my relatives and spent a month there. Later I lived there and in Kharkov, and Moscow for almost 7 years (1990-1996).

All in all, I would say that I am qualified to voice an informed opinion about the country.

- Mike


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)




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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Al Borland said:


>


Hey, Al! Apparently, you don't like it when "the shoe is on the other foot." When the Western Ukrainian ultra-nationalists are beating people, kidnapping politicians with opposing views, and rioting in the streets killing cops and destroying property that's OK. *When they are getting their asses kicked in the Eastern Ukraine all of a sudden you are upset*!

Here's the news - eastern and southern Ukrainians are not going to bend over for your nazis in the Maidan Mob. They Kiev insurgents sent agitators to Donetsk and the video shows the result.

*WANT SOME? COME GET SOME!*

*СМЕРТЬ ЗАПАДНЫМ УКРАЙНСКИМ ФАШИСТАМ!* 

- Mike


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## Colsworl (Jun 3, 2006)

Batko is very passionate about this. I wonder why? I work in the travel industry in Europe. I asked the question because Belarus is literally a black hole on the map. Few people know anything about it and few people want to visit it. The tourism sector seems uninterested in dialogue with Western European travel companies. Growth in travel in the Countries surrounding Belarus has been highly successful. Countries like Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia are benefiting greatly. Poland as well and even the city of Kiev until recent events. I work with many colleagues from these Countries mentioned as well as Russia and all have very interesting stories to tell. None from Belarus however.


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## elhijodelbodallas (Jan 30, 2014)

Doc said:


> Mike lives in Belarus correct?
> 
> Then why on earth are people who don't live there (some don't even know where it is) are calling him out on stuff they've read on the internet?
> 
> Lol worthy.


What's your point? What did the news say about Ceaucescu's regime in Romania, Salazar's regime in Portugal or, and this is an example from the great Noam Chomsky documentary "Manufacturing Consent" the bloodbath in Timor-East by the Indonesian government? Thank god for the internet because back then there was no way of information getting out about stuff like this. You think the massively uneducated and illiterate romanian and portuguese people living under those regimes knew what the political situation in their country was like? Sometimes you see things way better from the outside, from an unbiased point of view, than you do from the inside.

There's plenty of information circulating about the corrupt dictator Lukashenko and his tight grip on Belarus politics. It's all lies, is that what you're saying? They're being reported by independent sources and small news agencies so don't worry about coming with the "western" propaganda bullshit. Pinochet's dictatorship in Chile lasted for decades and nobody did anything about and hundreds of people were murdered because of him. It's better to let things be and let the people "who live there" talk about how things really are right?



Batko10 said:


> I was born in the States. My family is from the Byelorussian SSR (Minsk and Grodno). I first went to Minsk, Byelorussian SSR in 1970 to visit my relatives and spent a month there. Later I lived there and in Kharkov, and Moscow for almost 7 years (1990-1996).
> 
> All in all, I would say that I am qualified to voice an informed opinion about the country.
> 
> - Mike


No, you're not qualified to voice an informed opinion about this or anything related to this because you have proven time and time again that you have a completely biased perspective in these issues and you're unable to see and accept things from other people's perspectives. Living in the country or being from there means nothing because there were tons of german people who thought the Nazi regime was great and the same thing has happened in every country ruled by dictators, Germany, Italy, Spain, USSR, Chile, Portugal, Romania... There are still people to this day that praise those governments and "how things were great back in the day". You have a completely irresponsible perspective on this issue. Nobody gets elected with those ridiculous percentages unless someone is fixing the results - and that's a fact supported by years and years of history.


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## Thad Castle (Jul 8, 2006)

elhijodelbodallas said:


> What's your point? What did the news say about Ceaucescu's regime in Romania, Salazar's regime in Portugal or, and this is an example from the great Noam Chomsky documentary "Manufacturing Consent" the bloodbath in Timor-East by the Indonesian government? Thank god for the internet because back then there was no way of information getting out about stuff like this. You think the massively uneducated and illiterate romanian and portuguese people living under those regimes knew what the political situation in their country was like? Sometimes you see things way better from the outside, from an unbiased point of view, than you do from the inside.
> 
> There's plenty of information circulating about the corrupt dictator Lukashenko and his tight grip on Belarus politics. It's all lies, is that what you're saying? They're being reported by independent sources and small news agencies so don't worry about coming with the "western" propaganda bullshit. Pinochet's dictatorship in Chile lasted for decades and nobody did anything about and hundreds of people were murdered because of him. It's better to let things be and let the people "who live there" talk about how things really are right?
> 
> ...


That is the beauty of debates though. Not everyone is going to have the same opinion and it is always good to listen to what someone else has to say with an open mind. There is always a reason someone thinks the way they do. 

I personally don't care what happens between Russia and Ukraine as long as we don't invade or get into a physical battle.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

The president of Belarus has been president since 1994 and wins every election with around 80% of the vote and several of people he ran against strangely had criminal and terrorist connections surface during the elections and were sent to prison.

He compared Belarus to Germany and said the Germany was at its best when Hitler was in charge, said Jews don't care about the where they live and said they turned Babruysk, a city with a Jewish population, into a "pigsty" and when Germany accused him of acting like a dictator he said it was "better to be a dictator than gay" 

Personally it doesn't really sound like a place for me visit this summer


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

elhijodelbodallas said:


> No, you're not qualified to voice an informed opinion about this or anything related to this because you have proven time and time again that you have a completely biased perspective in these issues and you're unable to see and accept things from other people's perspectives. .


I see, but you're qualified to voice an informed opinion based on your world travels, command of foreign languages, prior business dealings in eastern Slavic countries, and your vast experience gained in your 21 years on this earth. Oh, and let's not forget your unbiased opinions which border on the neo-con and neo-nazi.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

stevefox1200 said:


> The president of Belarus has been president since 1994 and wins every election with around 80% of the vote and several of people he ran against strangely had criminal and terrorist connections surface during the elections and were sent to prison.
> 
> He compared Belarus to Germany and said the Germany was at its best when Hitler was in charge, said Jews don't care about the where they live and said they turned Babruysk, a city with a Jewish population, into a "pigsty" and when Germany accused him of acting like a dictator he said it was "better to be a dictator than gay"
> 
> Personally it doesn't really sound like a place for me visit this summer


The quote that you refer to regarding Hitler and Germany was a direct manipulation of a recording by Russian media to discredit President Lukashenko. It was made during Yeltsin's regime to punish Lukashenko for not knuckling under to the Russian oligarchs and Yeltsin. 

As Lukashenko said himself, in substance, "If I had ever praised Hitler in any way I would be out on my ear in ten seconds." However, I'm not surprised that this nonsense is still circulating in the West.

Lukashenko was the *FIRST ELECTED* president of Belarus and won the runoff in that first election with something like 70% of the vote. Since pro-West Shushkevich's people were counting the votes you can't say Lukashenko rigged that election. 

Since then he has won later elections with 75% to 80% of the vote. Belarus has had myriad EU, US, Eastern European, and Asian poll observers at ALL of their presidential elections. The usual scenario is that they report everything as normal. Then Lukashenko wins and the negativity begins with the West claiming inproprieties and the East saying everything was normal.

The statement by the New York Times is indicative of the western hypocrisy regarding President Lukashenko. In one article before the last election they wrote, in substance, "Lukashenko has enormous popularity among the majority of the Byelorussian people." Then after he won the election they accused him of falsifying the results. :argh: 

Regarding homosexuals, President Lukashenko has never tried to hide his personal aversion to that lifestyle. However, he personally led the campaign to strike down the old Soviet anti-homosexual laws that were still in the penal law when he took office in 1995. In *1996* Belarus was the *FIRST* post-Soviet republic to remove the Soviet anti-homosexual codes from the penal law. Russia didn't decriminalize homosexuality until 2001, if I'm not mistaken. I believe some of the other post-Soviet republics still have those laws on the books.

Anyone that accuses President Lukashenko of anti-semetism *is full of shit and has no clue as to what he is talking about*. 

Belarus suffered more than any other nation or region during the Nazi occupation. One out of every three people perished in Byelorussia during the war. A total of *3 million people *were exterminated by the Nazis - *2 million Byelorussians, 800,000 Jews, and 200,000 Poles*. We all suffered together during the genocide that occurred in Byelorussia and no one in Belarus (except possibly some descendants of collaborators) has any anti-semetic feelings.

And, for that matter, anti-semetic feelings against whom??? Thanks to the Nazis there are only *30,000 Jews *left in Belarus out of a present day population of *10 million*!!! 

In fact, *ISRAEL LISTS THE BYELORUSSIAN PEOPLE IN THE RANKS OF "THE RIGHTEOUS NATIONS*," i.e. people who risked their lives to save Jews during the Holocaust.

Historically, there never was any animosity on the part of the Byelorussian people toward the Jews. Belarus is not Western Ukraine which has historically been a hotbed of anti-semetism. The attitude in Byelorussia has always been live and let live.

The "Bobruisk" remarks by President Lukashenko were misinterpreted and blown up out of proportion.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

stevefox1200 said:


> He compared Belarus to Germany and said the Germany was at its best when Hitler was in charge,...


Here is some detailed information on the alleged "praising of Hitler" by President Lukashenko.

In 1995 President Lukashenko gave an interview to the German newspaper *"Handelsblatt"* in which the actual subject was the Byelorussian economy and contained absolutely *NO* reference at all to Hitler. 

The German correspondent who carried out the interview, *Dr.* *Markus Zeiner*, told the British Helsinki Human Right Group (BHHRG), "*a tape of the interview had been quoted out of context and with the sequence of comments altered by the Russian media." *(The BHHRG reported on this in their article "Belarus-Pariah or Victim?", 1997.)

*Dr. Zeiner wrote to the Russian media publication and broadcasters who had used these "quotes" to inform them of their non-factual base, but never received a reply*. The source of this spread of mis-information is attributed to an interview with the Russsian NTV network in order to divert attention away from a non-existent comment in the Handelsblatt, to erroneous Russian reporting.

President Lukashenko himself was shocked when told how he was quoted. *In a later interview with another German newspaper, "Der Spiegel," the President said, "If I really had said that I would have been driven out of my post the next day!"
*
The western media has been conducting a campaign of misquotes, ommissions, and outright lies against President Lukashenko since the U.S. and E.U. realized that they were not going to be allowed to step in, buy out the country, and turn the Byelorussian people into their shoeshine boys and lackies. At the time of this "Hitler" quote the gangster Yeltsin regime was pissed off at President Lukashenko and the Russian media was also out to get him along with the West.

*This was not just a "misquote," but a conscious and deliberate alteration of an interview tape with the intent to discredit and embarass President Lukashenko!*


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## elhijodelbodallas (Jan 30, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> I see, but you're qualified to voice an informed opinion based on your world travels, command of foreign languages, prior business dealings in eastern Slavic countries, and your vast experience gained in your 21 years on this earth. Oh, and let's not forget your unbiased opinions which border on the neo-con and neo-nazi.
> 
> - Mike


And here it is. "Vintage Batko10" closing his post with his already classic nazi insult. You should get a warning for this kind of repetitive and insulting behaviour. You're in complete denial and it's almost embarrassing to read. You talk and you talk about the nazi uprising and call other people nazis but it's because of people like you that Hitler was able to get where he was. People like you who are easily brainwashed and buy into the Mussolini-created "cult of personality" manipulation tactics.

How do you explain the percentages in the Belarus elections? Everyone's so happy and joyful in Belarus so they Lukashenko in power forever? He's the most unanimous president in world history?

I'm qualified to voice an informed opinion because I have an open mind, unlike you and your blind eastern-slavic pride. Belarus can do no wrong for you. As I said before and you chose to ignore, knowing the language doesn't mean anything and doesn't give you any advantages over other people if you don't have an open mind. You don't even live there. How many times have you been in Belarus since the year 2000? Is the entire world press trying to discredit Lukashenko's image? Do you even believe what you are saying? It's all just a huge conspiracy to discredit him because Lukashenko doesn't give in to the western powers?


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Well I am of Austrian German descent

I only worship my Hitler effigy, read aloud from Mein Kampf and goose step around my home on special occasions though


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

elhijodelbodallas said:


> And here it is. "Vintage Batko10" closing his post with his already classic nazi insult. You should get a warning for this kind of repetitive and insulting behaviour. .


You're the one who supports the neo-fascist Maidan Mob. I'm just calling a spade a spade. If it walks like a duck...



elhijodelbodallas said:


> How do you explain the percentages in the Belarus elections? Everyone's so happy and joyful in Belarus so they Lukashenko in power forever? He's the most unanimous president in world history?


Yes, compared to the peoples in the other 14 post-Soviet republics after the dissolution the people of Belarus are indeed "happy and joyful."

Actually, if he didn't die Franklin Delano Roosevelt would have won a fourth term. In any case, FDR was probably the most unanimous president ever. One could explain his electoral success on rigged elections. However, the fact is he was extremely popular among the American people as is Alexander Lukashenko among the Byelorussian people.

- Mike


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## elhijodelbodallas (Jan 30, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> You're the one who supports the neo-fascist Maidan Mob. I'm just calling a spade a spade. If it walks like a duck...
> 
> Yes, compared to the peoples in the other 14 post-Soviet republics after the dissolution the people of Belarus are indeed "happy and joyful."
> 
> ...


Where did you read me say that I support anything? Can you please quote the post where I said that? The only thing I said was that the current government is legitimate, I never said I supported it and it's ridiculous to say the insurgents are neo-fascists or nazis. There is a small percentage that may be but that's it. You tend to make vague generalizations and ridiculous associations like "the west" and "the western media" so this is to be expected from you.

Here are some images to give some colour to this thread.


















































































































Lukashenko already preparing the heir to the throne...


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

I understand, that in discussion people have to have different opinions. Otherwise, there would be no discussion. But when a person uses logic "killing people is wrong, unless it's people I don't like being killed", runs around calling everyone he doesn't like faschist, nazi and other names and repeats one point in his every post, that's where the discussion becomes dead.


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

elhijodelbodallas said:


> How do you explain the percentages in the Belarus elections? Everyone's so happy and joyful in Belarus so they Lukashenko in power forever? He's the most unanimous president in world history?


It's not always so black and white. Urho Kekkonen was the president of Finland for 25 years during the cold war and according to all of the surveys I've read from the newspapers of that time, as well as speaking to the people who were alive during his time, his popularity was always about the same as Lukashenko's (apparently) is right now. And, for example, in 1978, after being in office for 22 years, his supporters still got 82% of the seats in the electoral college election. And I can tell you, the votes aren't or weren't rigged around here.

At least to me that proves that a president can be popular for decades, even without foul play.


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## TheJack (Mar 13, 2006)

Allur said:


> At least to me that proves that a president can be popular for decades, even without foul play.


I second that.
Im part croatian and I have never met a person from ex-Yugoslavia who didnt love Tito, who was a dictator but keeped the peace in the nation. 

I dont really believe that Lukashenko rigged the elections. His first election was a landslide, Belarus did better than most of the other soviet states economically (although I think it will backfire in the future) and people like to keep the status quo. 
Of course he does stuff that other dictators do, imprison opposition, controlling the media etc. but that also helps to keep his high election percentage.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> *But when a person uses logic "killing people is wrong, unless it's people I don't like being killed*", .


Tomas, I never said that. I recall that one of my detractors made that statement, *NOT* me.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Tomas, I never said that. I recall that one of my detractors made that statement, *NOT* me.


You seemed to be happy when the riot police killed almost a hundred Ukrainian protesters. But you said that they are 'fascist, neo-nazi, ultra-nationalist scum that support unelected-government' when policemen died. And you said that they were murdering policemen. All 16 of them. Compared to 86+ protesters that were killed by police, about whom you said nothing.


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## Thad Castle (Jul 8, 2006)

TomasThunder619 said:


> I understand, that in discussion people have to have different opinions. Otherwise, there would be no discussion. But when a person uses logic "killing people is wrong, unless it's people I don't like being killed", runs around calling everyone he doesn't like faschist, nazi and other names and repeats one point in his every post, that's where the discussion becomes dead.


Unfortunatley, the majority of the Human race actually thinks this way. Ever see those Anarchist Hippes that think murder is wrong? They damn sure cheer and blog when an innocent police officer (that never done anything hostile) is murdered. Double Standard.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Yes and Batko is the king of double standards. Mike, you call everyone who disagrees with you, a russophobe. Then by your standards, you are a ukrainophobe. But if I called you that you would get angry and deny it. So either admit that there is no such thing as russophobia (people aren't really afraid of everything that's Russian) or admit that you are a ukrainophobe (you think of Ukrainians the same way you claim russophobes think about Russians)>)


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> You seemed to be happy when the riot police killed almost a hundred Ukrainian protesters. But you said that they are 'fascist, neo-nazi, ultra-nationalist scum that support unelected-government' when policemen died. And you said that they were murdering policemen. All 16 of them. Compared to 86+ protesters that were killed by police, about whom you said nothing.


And, you seemed to be happy when the rioting insurgents killed 16 police officers. "All 16 of them"?!? - sounds to me like you don't value those 16 lives at all. 

I did say something about the 86 insurgents that were killed - I said they were killed while rioting and created the situation that led to their deaths. I did *NOT* say it was "good" that they died. But, the truth is that they did create the situation and died because of what they created.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> Yes and Batko is the king of double standards. Mike, you call everyone who disagrees with you, a russophobe. Then by your standards, you are a ukrainophobe. But if I called you that you would get angry and deny it. So either admit that there is no such thing as russophobia (people aren't really afraid of everything that's Russian) or admit that you are a ukrainophobe (you think of Ukrainians the same way you claim russophobes think about Russians)>)


Tomas has crowned me the "king of double standards." This by a guy who professes to believe in the democratic process, but supports a bloody coup d'etat by Western Ukrainian ultra-nationalists. 

This by a guy who bitterly mourns the death of violent thugs who went into the streets tossing molotov cocktails, killing police officers, and destroying property, but dismisses the murder of 16 police officers as "only 16 policemen."

And, to put the icing on the cake, this by a guy who decries the Crimean secession as "unconstitutional" after supporting the very people who trampled on the Ukrainian Constitution and drove out the *ELECTED* president and government by force.

I believe that in all fairness I should refuse the crown and make way for the true king of double standards - Tomas!

To be a "Ukrainophobe" (assuming there is such a word) I would have to have phobic feelings about my Ukrainian in-laws, friends, and even my son (who was born in Kharkov and who is 50% Ukrainian genetically). I don't.

However, I truly fear the Western Ukrainians who are Nazis incarnate. Their grandfathers and fathers were better Nazis than the Nazis and made the German Nazis look like "slackards" when it came to killing Jews and Russians.

Anyone with any sense would fear them, too! And, make no mistake, they coordinated the riots and coup, and they are running the show in Kiev today!!

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TOMORROW IN CRIMEA THEY WILL BE VOTING AGAINST NAZISM!









"*ON MARCH 16TH WE CHOOSE EITHER THIS OR THIS*"


TOMORROW IN LATVIA THE WILL BE MARCHING FOR NAZISM!!


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Tomas has crowned me the "king of double standards." This by a guy who professes to believe in the democratic process, but supports a bloody coup d'etat by Western Ukrainian ultra-nationalists.
> 
> This by a guy who bitterly mourns the death of violent thugs who went into the streets tossing molotov cocktails, killing police officers, and destroying property, but dismisses the murder of 16 police officers as "only 16 policemen."
> 
> ...


Can you please think of anything else? You only have one point and say the same thing, just in other words, in your every post. 'Ukrainians are nazis, except for those that I like'.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Ukrainians, Latvians, Lithuanians and others fought for nazis and against Russia in World War II. Just imagine, how bad must Stalin have been, if people chose Hitler over him.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

TomasThunder619 said:


> Ukrainians, Latvians, Lithuanians and others fought for nazis and against Russia in World War II. Just imagine, how bad must Stalin have been, if people chose Hitler over him.


That's your justification for collaborators who fought alongside and worked with the Nazis??? 

They may have disliked Stalin, but the real reason for their participation on the side of the fascists was that they hated Jews and Russians, and supported the racial policies of the Nazi Party. The areas that were involved in collaboration with Nazis were all heavily anti-semetic, i.e. Western Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania. 

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> That's your justification for collaborators who fought alongside and worked with the Nazis???
> 
> They may have disliked Stalin, but the real reason for their participation on the side of the fascists was that they hated Jews and Russians, and supported the racial policies of the Nazi Party. The areas that were involved in collaboration with Nazis were all heavily anti-semetic, i.e. Western Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania.
> 
> - Mike


Actually, the Baltic states don't and never did hate Jews. There were many Jews here back then and still are now. People just chose the lesser of two evils. And just imagine how bad you have to be to make people chose Hitler over you. I can't imagine chosing Hitler over anything. Then again, I didn't live under Stalin. I'm not saying I would choose Hitler. If I was there, I would probably just flee to America, like many did.


----------



## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> That's your justification for collaborators who fought alongside and worked with the Nazis???
> 
> They may have disliked Stalin, but the real reason for their participation on the side of the fascists was that they hated Jews and Russians, and supported the racial policies of the Nazi Party. The areas that were involved in collaboration with Nazis were all heavily anti-semetic, i.e. Western Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania.
> 
> - Mike


Once again, everything is not so black and white. When there's two choices, either Soviet invasion and the loss of independence, or aligning with the Nazis and keeping your independence while possibly regaining previously lost areas, you can't just take the first option and go with it. Finland, despite heavy pressure from the Nazis, refused to hand over Finnish jews under any circumstances and handed over *"*just*"* 8 (yes, that's still 8 too much) of the almost 1000 refugees that arrived during the war.

In fact, during the continuation war, the Finnish jews even fought alongside the Nazis and there were field synagogues operating just next to the Nazi troops. *Finland was not, and is not, antisemitic by any means.*



I'm just disappointed right now, Mike. You shouldn't make those claims unless you know your history entirely, which in this case you clearly don't.


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> Once again, everything is not so black and white. When there's two choices, either Soviet invasion and the loss of independence, or aligning with the Nazis and keeping your independence while possibly regaining previously lost areas, you can't just take the first option and go with it. Finland, despite heavy pressure from the Nazis, refused to hand over Finnish jews under any circumstances and handed over *"*just*"* 8 (yes, that's still 8 too much) of the almost 1000 refugees that arrived during the war.
> 
> In fact, during the continuation war, the Finnish jews even fought alongside the Nazis and there were field synagogues operating just next to the Nazi troops. *Finland was not, and is not, antisemitic by any means.*
> 
> I'm just disappointed right now, Mike. You shouldn't make those claims unless you know your history entirely, which in this case you clearly don't.


First of all, I never claimed the Finns were anti-semitic. To my knowledge, there never was any anti-semitism in Finland.

Secondly, the anti-semetism of the Western Ukrainians and their collaboration with the Nazis in the Holocaust is pretty much a fact that everyone agrees on. However, the relatively recent revisionist trends to downplay the anti-semitism of the Baltic states would appear to be due to the U.S. and NATO not wanting to embarass their newest allies of Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania.

The historic truth of the matter is that the local people played a large role in the extermination of the Jews in Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia.


"*The participation of the local populace was a key factor in the Holocaust in Nazi-occupied Lithuania*[54] which resulted in the near total destruction of Lithuanian Jews living in the Nazi-controlled Lithuanian territories that would, from July 17, 1941, become the Generalbezirk Litauen of Reichskommissariat Ostland. Out of approximately 210,000[55] Jews, (208,000 according to the Lithuanian pre-war statistical data)[56] an estimated 195,000–196,000 perished..."
*CITE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaboration_with_the_Axis_Powers_during_World_War_II#Latvia*


"...Two factors contributed to the rapid destruction of Lithuanian Jewry. The first was *the significant support for the "de-Jewification" of Lithuania coming from the Lithuanian populace*.[8][12] The second was the German plan for early colonization of Lithuania..."
*CITE:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_in_Lithuania* 

"...Voldemar Weiss, a well known Latvian nationalist, appealed to the population via a radio address to attack "internal enemies". During next months, activity of the *Latvian Auxiliary Security Police *was primarily focused on killing Jews, Communists, and Red Army stragglers in Latvia as well as in neighboring Belorussia. The group alone murdered almost half of Latvia's Jewish population mainly in November and December 1941. The creation of *Arajs Kommando *was "one of the most significant inventions of early Holocaust", *that marked transition from German organised pogroms to systematic killing of Jews by local volunteers *...
*CITE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_in_Lithuania*

Round-ups and killings of the remaining Jews began immediately by the extermination squad Einsatzkommando (Sonderkommando) 1A under Martin Sandberger, part of Einsatzgruppe A led by Walter Stahlecker, who followed the arrival of the first German troops on July 7, 1941. Arrests and executions continued as the Germans, *with the assistance of local collaborators,* advanced through Estonia.
*CITE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_in_Estonia#Murder_of_Jewish_population*


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

"_The areas that were involved in collaboration with Nazis were *all* heavily anti-semetic, i.e. Western Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania._"

That's a direct quote from you. Finland was aligned with the Nazis during the continuation war in 1941-1944.

You really shouldn't generalize in things like this.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Batko10 said:


> First of all, I never claimed the Finns were anti-semitic. To my knowledge, there never was any anti-semitism in Finland.
> 
> Secondly, the anti-semetism of the Western Ukrainians and their collaboration with the Nazis in the Holocaust is pretty much a fact that everyone agrees on. However, the relatively recent revisionist trends to downplay the anti-semitism of the Baltic states would appear to be due to the U.S. and NATO not wanting to embarass their newest allies of Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania.
> 
> ...


I thought Wikipedia was pro-western source that did nothing but spread the western agenda


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> "_The areas that were involved in collaboration with Nazis were *all* heavily anti-semetic, i.e. Western Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania._"
> 
> That's a direct quote from you. Finland was aligned with the Nazis during the continuation war in 1941-1944.
> 
> You really shouldn't generalize in things like this.


I should have been clearer. *My bad!* I was refering to the collaborators in nations occupied by the Nazis. Finland was an ally, not an occupied country.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

stevefox1200 said:


> I thought Wikipedia was pro-western source that did nothing but spread the western agenda


There's only so much you can cover up!

If you like, I can cite other sources that go much more in depth than Wikipedia. But, the Wikipedia quotes get the idea across. 

- Mike


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## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

I know Russia's intentions are far from noble, but they make solid arguments in vetoing the UN resolution to invalidate Crimea's referendum. What the people of Crimea are doing is in line with the UN's ideals. This talk of legality is shockingly (not) hypocritical, seeing as how if we trace each of the UN Security Council countries' governments far enough back, they were established "illegally", relative to the power that preceded them. Believe it or not, the American Revolution was not a "legal" action as far as Great Britain was concerned.

Of course the Russians are hypocrites too. Every government is just a bunch of hypocrites throwing their weight around. Man this species really needs to evolve.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Batko10 said:


> There's only so much you can cover up!
> 
> If you like, I can cite other sources that go much more in depth than Wikipedia. But, the Wikipedia quotes get the idea across.
> 
> - Mike


like Soviet atrocities


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

CamillePunk said:


> I know Russia's intentions are far from noble, but they make solid arguments in vetoing the UN resolution to invalidate Crimea's referendum. What the people of Crimea are doing is in line with the UN's ideals. This talk of legality is shockingly (not) hypocritical...


The U.S. set the modern precedent with Kosovo. Why not Crimea??? "What's good for the goose is good for the gander."

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Thousands picket Donetsk govt building, demand release of local governor








[/URL][/IMG]
_Pro-Russian activists shout slogans and hold Russian national flags during a demonstration rally in the center of the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk on March 15, 2014. (AFP Photo)
_
Published time: March 15, 2014 15:30

Thousands have gathered in the city of Donetsk, picketing the Security Council building. The protesters called for the current Kiev authorities to release the local governor and pro-Russian activists detained earlier, threatening to storm the building.

The protesters blocked the Security Council building trying to break the doors and smashing windows on Saturday afternoon. Activists removed the Ukrainian flag from the top of the building, hoisting a Russian tricolor. 

The protesters were demanding the release of local governor Pavel Gubarev and 70 pro-Russian activists previously detained by the current Kiev authorities. They also urged local law enforcement to take their side.

The local head of the Security Council has promised the protesters to release the activists and Gubarev, according to Life news. 

*The local demonstrators also want to hold a separate referendum on the region’s accession to Russia*. During the rally the people were carrying Russian flags chanting “*Donbass is Russia*” and “*Referendum*!”



Ukraine mayor detained for ‘attacking’ Right Sector thugs who raided city council meeting

Published time: March 15, 2014 04:14 

*MAIDAN MOB "DEMOCRACY" IN ACTION*





*A mayor of a central Ukrainian city has been taken to the police station after a being assaulted by the Right Sector thugs who interrupted the city council meeting, demanding his resignation*.

The incident happened when Poltava’s mayor Alexander Mamaj refused to hold a meeting when members of the Right Sector joined the session. Mamaj asked them to leave the room, but they refused. Then he tried to leave the session himself but was not allowed to leave through the main exit. Footage shows the mayor being verbally and physically assaulted by the gang. 

He then tried to leave through the second exit, but was again assaulted by the angry crowd inside the meeting room. He eventually made it into the hall. 

The mayor then returned surrounded by a number of security guards, at which point a massive brawl erupted. Right Sector’s crew had by that time secured all the exits demanding Mamaj resign. 

After the police involvement, the mayor was taken to the station, after one of his attackers filed a police reports claiming that Mamaj hit him in the groin. A woman and the mayor’s security guard were injured in the incident, local media reports. 


NEO-NAZI MAIDAN MOB THUGS BEING FORMED INTO "NATIONAL GUARD"

Published time: March 15, 2014 11:41 
The creation of Ukraine’s National Guard – the custodian of the coup-imposed government – has raised concerns that *it may later be deployed to eastern regions of Ukraine to suppress the population increasingly standing up against Kiev.
*
Ukraine has established a National Guard which will be comprised of former and current Ukrainian troops and *volunteers from Maidan self-defense squads*. Its declared goal, according to the statement of the country’s parliament, is the protection of Ukrainians against external and internal aggression as well as ensuring territorial integrity of the country. 

*The National Guard will be able to carry out the functions of any law enforcement agency in the post-coup country*, as the existing agencies cannot be fully relied upon, considering the questionable legitimacy of the new rulers and the public discontent in eastern regions. 

Yet experts are already beginning to question the true motives behind the formation of the new combat force in Ukraine. *Historian Vladimir Skachko argues that the Guard will be used to antagonize the Russian speaking population, and he has called the creation of the special force “legalization of neo-Nazi and neo-fascist batons.” 
*
Citing historical examples from 20th century European history, Skachko draws a parallel with the SA, or Brownshirts, a paramilitary wing of the Nazi Party, which acted as death squads. 

*This theory appears to hold ground, considering the assignment of extreme right-associated politicians to key posts in the coup-installed Ukrainian government. 
*


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## Doc (Oct 4, 2010)

Batko10 said:


> I see, but you're qualified to voice an informed opinion based on your world travels, command of foreign languages, prior business dealings in eastern Slavic countries, and your vast experience gained in your 21 years on this earth. Oh, and let's not forget your unbiased opinions which border on the neo-con and neo-nazi.
> 
> - Mike


Pow!
We have our winner.
I'm with you Mike.


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Reddit AMA from a Crimean citizen

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/20c2m2/i_am_a_crimean_citizen/


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

I'm gonna lol when Crimea rejoins the motherland. Western plutocrats intefered and it backfired. And since Russia isn't some defenseless Arab backwater.... deal with it.


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)




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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

'No surprise Western govts prop up Ukrainian rebels, call them legitimate'

Published time: March 14, 2014 09:08 

*Staging a coup and replacing an elected government with unelected stooges, as the US has specifically done with the Maidan opposition, is a true violation of sovereignty* foreign affairs analyst Nebojsa Malic told RT.

RT: The US, the UK and others insist that Russian troops have taken over Crimea. The armed men there say they are local self-defense units. So what proof does the West have of a Russian incursion? 

Nebojsa Malic: I don’t think they have any proof, but then again, they’ve *never needed any proof for any of their allegations over the past 25 years. They simply say what they want the public to believe and expect the public to believe it*. I don’t see a problem even if these were Russian troops because Russia has a treaty that allows it to keep a number of troops in the Crimean region, and the number of troops Russia does keep is far fewer than allowed by the treaty. 

So again, I don’t really see a problem here. *There’s been no invasion, the people in Crimea are happy enough. *They’re posting selfies with these soldiers, they’re smiling, they are walking around with flowers. *That’s not like a typical Western invasion, which involves lots of bombs and lots of dead people*. This isn’t exactly the kind of imagery the West usually projects when they go around flexing their power, and *that’s why they’re trying to be as panicky and as alarmist as possible in their public announcements. 
*
RT: They said Russia is violating Ukraine's sovereignty. But what about the EU and the US politicians propping up the Maidan opposition before it came to power? 

NM: *I would say that a far greater violation of sovereignty is actually staging a coup and replacing an elected government of a country with unelected stooges, like the United States has specifically done with the Maidan opposition*. There was the intercepted phone call, which we all heard, who the United States government was plotting to install in power. Lo and behold, that’s exactly what happened. That is a violation of sovereignty. Before that is resolved, nobody should really speak about any sort of other violations, real or imagined. 

RT: The UK says the new government in Kiev is legit, while Yanukovich didn't honor the February 21 agreement with the then-opposition and fled. Do they have a point? 

NM: Who decides the legitimacy of these things? Normally it would be the Ukrainian people. *The last time they were polled, they elected Viktor Yanukovich as their president*. The crowd in Maidan didn't have any sort of democratic legitimacy. *What they did have is that they had weapons. And they had money from the West, and the diplomatic support of Western governments. And using those levers, they actually took over power by force on February 22*. The agreement that was purportedly achieved between European ministers and President Yanukovich was violated by the Maidan protesters who resorted to violence and forced the issue. So honestly, for the Western governments propping up these rebels, to declare them legitimate is obviously expected. But they don’t get to decide the legitimacy of these things. 

RT: We've seen how many people in Crimea aren't happy with the Kiev leaders. Why is the will of the people not taken into account by Western nations then? 

NM: Western governments generally don’t take will of the people into consideration at all, anywhere ever. *The only will that matters to them is their own.* So if they want to achieve something, if they want to carve up Yugoslavia or Serbia or Russia or Ukraine or anywhere else, *they just find stooges that they can manipulate, install them in power, and then claim that the stooges’ decisions are legitimate because they represent a will of some phantom people or other. And that’s usually how they've been doing business for the past two decades.* Sooner or later, somebody is going to have to stand up to them and say, “No, you can’t do this. This is against your own rules, this is against everybody rules. Stop.” 

RT: Washington says the rights of minorities are protected in Ukraine. But what about those ultra-nationalists affiliated with the government, who made no secret about their hatred towards Russians and other ethnic groups? 

NM: *How can the United States government say the minority rights are protected in Ukraine when the very first thing that the rebel government did was pass a law banning the use of Russian language?* If that is a protection of minorities, then what’s going on in Kosovo is multi-ethnic democracy, and Kosovo has been ethnically cleansed of everybody but Albanians, and even the Albanians who disagree with the current regime – which was also installed by the United States. Obviously some definitions are not all straight here. 

RT: What do you think the international community will ultimately do if the referendum in Crimea goes ahead, and people vote to re-join Russia? 

NM: It’s hard to predict what the international community will do, *because there is no such thing as the international community. The United States uses this phrase to represent what it and its NATO allies are doing around the world.* If the referendum in the Crimea is legitimate, and by all democratic standards, it looks like it is, have any treaties been violated? No. Has any force been used? No. By all rights, it should be a legitimate decision. However, this is not in the interest of the people who just overthrew the government in Ukraine and want to claim the entire country for themselves, including the people that don’t want to have anything to do with these neo-Nazi parties involved in the new government. *And they will try to impose their will by force, and I fear what might happen then*. 

RT: Many in the international community want Russia to start negotiating with Kiev's government. What would it take for that to happen? 

NM: I think the Russian government has repeatedly said that they would be perfectly willing to negotiate with a legitimate government in Kiev. So for any sort of negotiations, there has to be a legitimate government in Kiev to negotiate with, and right now we don’t have that. I think there would need to be some sort of political solution within Ukraine that would create an actual legitimate government in Kiev that would be able to conduct negotiations about any of these issues, from the status of minorities or any other groups, to all sorts of international treaties, to EU accession, etc. *But right now, there is no legitimate government. There’s just a group that proclaimed itself the new government based on violence and foreign support.* 

RT: Yatsenyuk has passionately argued many times that Russia should not intervene into Crimea’s affairs and that Kiev wouldn't recognize the results of Crimean referendum. Is that an attempt to protect Ukrainian territorial integrity or is it what Washington and Brussels want him to say? 

NM: Mr. Yatsenyuk can certainly give fairly impassioned speech, but who does he actually represent? Does he represent the Ukrainian people? Does he represent a portion of the Ukrainian people? Does he represent the international banker interests? Does he represent the US government that put him in the position he’s currently in? *Who exactly is he speaking for?* Until we can figure that out we can’t really figure out what any of his words mean. 

The statements, views and opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of RT.


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## TB Tapp (Oct 26, 2013)

I am pleased to see that Crimea has voted to be reunited with Russia. Hopefully the majority Russian parts of east Ukraine will also be detached so they are not subjected to the Maidan régime's Ukrianization policies.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Hopefully, that ahen Crimea joins Russia all the buzz will die down and Russia will stop there.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

CRIMEA CHOOSES SECESSION FROM FASCIST CONTROLLED UKRAINE
SIMFEROPOL, March 16 (RIA Novosti) - Exit polls showed that some 93 percent of residents of Ukraine’s autonomous republic of Crimea voted on Sunday for seceding from Ukraine and joining Russia.

The Crimean institute of political and sociological research, conducted the exit polls at 150 voting sites in Crimea and 50 sites in Sevastopol, a city with a separate administrative status from the rest of the peninsula. More than 59,000 voters took part in the exit polls.

WHILE LATVIANS HONOR NAZIS IN RIGA







[/URL][/IMG]

About 2,000 people participated in a march and ceremony honoring Latvians who fought in the Waffen SS for Nazi Germany. A smaller number of anti-fascist protestors demonstrated against event. There were no incidents.

AND ON THE EASTERN FRONT OF UKRAINE THE BATTLE AGAINST THE MAIDAN COUP CONTINUES..
*Defensive blockade: Activists stop Kiev’s military trucks heading to Russian border*
Published time: March 16, 2014 16:07 






Activists in eastern Ukraine in the Donetsk and Lugansk regions are blocking columns of heavy military equipment heading from Kiev to the border with Russia.

*Late Thursday activists from the Donbass people's militia blocked the way of columns with about 20 trucks carrying heavy military equipment near Donetsk heading to the Russian border*, a local activist and former officer of the Ukrainian Emergencies Ministry told RT. 

“At about 5pm [1500 GMT], local activists called me,” said Sergey Rzhavsky. “They reported that a column [with military equipment] was situated near the town of Volovaha from the side of the Valeryanovka settlement. *We, the Donbass People’s Self-Defense Units of Pavel Gubarev [the local governor, currently arrested in Kiev] promptly headed there.* We saw about 20 heavy trucks there with some carrying airborne combat vehicles.” 

*According to Rzhavsky, the activists engaged in negotiations with the troops that lasted about an hour or two.* During the negotiations, the activists found out that the trucks were heading to a polygon situated near the border with Russia for some military training, he said. 

“Since we do not want fratricidal carnage, we suggested the military to refrain from using force. We were unmasked, without any means of self-defense. We asked them to turn around and leave, because the military equipment was really heavy and if the columns passed the city it would escalate tensions, [and evoke] shock and panic,” he said. 

*The activists and the troops, who called their superiors for guidance, came to a compromise, and the Kiev troops decided to turn around*, Rzhavsky told RT. 

“There were no conflicts. A lot of people gathered. They stopped and offered their help and moral support, they just wanted to express their views.” 

Rzhavsky added that he knows of 58 airborne combat vehicles which are moving through the Donetsk and Lugansk regions and are heading for the eastern border. 

Spontaneous protests erupted in Kharkov, Donetsk and Lugansk regions against the transportation of the military equipment toward the border with Russia. *Residents of Lugansk also stopped a train, carrying heavy military equipment, which was headed for the border Thursday*. 

According to local residents the arrival of the train with airborne combat vehicles and tanks to the Lugansk railway station during twilight caused a stir among the people, Interfax reported. Locals from the nearby villages gathered at the spot and started to prevent the disembarkation of the equipment. 

In response to questions about the purpose of the transportation, the Ukrainian troops said that they’ve arrived to Lugansk to fulfill a task which is only known to their commander, as cited by Interfax. 

*Having received no clear answer, the residents using a locomotive dragged part of the train to a standstill despite the troops’ protests, and barricaded the rails with scrap metal. 
*
Most of the soldiers calmly reacted to the actions of local residents and did not initiate any conflict. *Moreover, they stressed that they will not use any violence against civilians. 
*
*However, seven young people dressed in uniforms of the Ukrainian armed forces, but without shoulder straps, armed with Kalashnikov rifles with silencers, began to force the unit commander to “obey orders“ to disperse locals and dismantle the barricades. 
*
Reportedly, a scuffle occurred as the unidentified men threatened the residents saying they "betrayed Ukraine." *The troops’ commander who defended the civilians was injured in the fight.* 

*Following the incident the residents set up a 24-hour patrol at the spot, guarding the military equipment preventing its further movement*.


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## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

Why no independence option on the poll anyway?


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## Doc (Oct 4, 2010)

Russia won't stop at Crimea. Other countries round that neck of the woods must be worried about possible incursions by Russians now?

But the Crimean people have voted, and the rest of the world in the words of Bootista should 'deal with it'. Sanctions won't bother Russia, they'll just do their business with Asia instead.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Doc said:


> Russia won't stop at Crimea. Other countries round that neck of the woods must be worried about possible incursions by Russians now?
> 
> But the Crimean people have voted, and the rest of the world in the words of Bootista should 'deal with it'. Sanctions won't bother Russia, they'll just do their business with Asia instead.


It's not a matter of "Russia won't stop at Crimea." It's a matter of what do the other southern and eastern regions of Ukraine want to do?

With the forming of the Maidan Mob thugs into "National Guard Units" with the authority "to dispense justice," the regions of Ukraine are feeling more uneasy about their fate than they did just a few days ago. 

The regions of Kharkov, Donetsk, Dnepropetrovsk, and Lugansk have demanded the right to hold referendums on their status. The southern "water front" regions of Odessa, Kherson, and Mikolayev have already stated their desire to become part of Crimea and go over to Russia.

Judging by the way the military has so far backed down when faced with civilian opposition in the southern/eastern regions, it would seem that most commanding officers have no desire to confront or kill civilians demonstrating for their rights. This is precisely why the illegal fascist regime in Kiev is forming a national guard out of the thugs of Right Sector and Svoboda who formed the core troops of the Maidan Mob revolution. 

These scumbags are die hard Western Ukrainian fascist killers and will be exploited by the illegal government in an attempt to terrorize and put down the people in the east and south. If this happens, my bet is Russia will send in troops. They are not going to let innocent people be slaughtered by these revolutionary murderers.

In reality, it is up to the Maidan Mob government in Kiev as to what is going to happen. If they allow the people of the east and south to make their own choice Russia won't send in troops. If they send in the thugs Russia will send in the troops. It's a simple equation.

- Mike


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## Green (Dec 12, 2006)

Batko10 said:


> It's not a matter of "Russia won't stop at Crimea." It's a matter of what do the other southern and eastern regions of Ukraine want to do?
> 
> With the forming of the Maidan Mob thugs into "National Guard Units" with the authority "to dispense justice," the regions of Ukraine are feeling more uneasy about their fate than they did just a few days ago.
> 
> ...


Just a hint, but I'd guess they are feeling uneasy because their giant nuclear powerhouse neighbour recently invaded them and split their country in two.


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## Skermac (Apr 6, 2012)

I think our Intelligence Agency needs some help of some sort, more training or something.

"A day after U.S. intelligence said there would be no Russian invasion of Ukraine, Putin’s troops started coming over the border."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/28/u-s-spies-said-no-invasion-putin-disagreed.html


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Green said:


> Just a hint, but I'd guess they are feeling uneasy because their giant nuclear powerhouse neighbour recently invaded them and split their country in two.


I think that you've got it backwards. The people in the eastern and southern regions are not uneasy about Russia. They *WANT* Russia to come in and protect them from the ultra-nationalist thugs who took over the government in Kiev by force.

Also, you don't seem to quite get the fact that Russia has* NOT* yet invaded Ukraine. The number of Russian soldiers in Crimea up to the referendum was allowed by treaty with the original legal government of Ukraine. After the referendum all bets are off and Crimea is free of the Western Ukrainian Maidan Mob.

However, if the eastern and southern regions also hold referendums to secede and Maidan controlled Kiev reacts with force then you will probably be correct regarding an invasion.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)




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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Some people want it, but definitely not all. Actually, this reminds me of how the Soviet Union occupied Lithuania during (or before) World War II. A fake refferendum, where nobody wanted to join the Soviets, yet people 'voted' for joining them. Only in this case, there were people who actually wanted to join Russia.


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## Thad Castle (Jul 8, 2006)

This is getting more and more hilarious. Watching this implode is too funny!


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

Green said:


> Just a hint, but I'd guess they are feeling uneasy because their giant nuclear powerhouse neighbour recently invaded them and split their country in two.


They didn't do either.


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## SovietWrestler (May 30, 2012)

People of Crimea singing the Soviet Anthem.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

СМЕРТЬ УКРАЙНСКИМ ФАШИСТАМ! ДА ЗДРАВСТВУЕТ НЕЗАВИСИМЫЙ КРЫМ!

CRIMEAN DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE FROM FASCIST CONTROLLED UKRAINE

The Supreme Council of Crimea, acting upon the will of its people directly expressed through the referendum vote on March 16, 2014, whose outcome has indicated that the peoples of Crimea are in favor of joining Russia, in favor of seceding from Ukraine and in favor of establishing an independent state, as well as acting on the Declaration of Independence of the Republic of Crimea adopted at the urgent plenary session of the Supreme Council of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea on March 11, 2014 and at the urgent plenary session of the Sevastopol City Council on March 11, 2014, has ruled the following: 

1. *Crimea as of now is announced to be an independent sovereign state the Republic of Crimea, and the city of Sevastopol will have a special status within it. 
*
The Republic of Crimea intends to build and maintain friendly relations with other nations based on the principles of equality, peace, cooperation and other universally accepted principles of political, economic and cultural cooperation between nations. 

The Republic of Crimea is requesting the United Nations and all sovereign states of the world to recognize the independent sovereign state established by the peoples of Crimea.

2. *From the day on which this resolution comes in force, no laws of Ukraine will be applicable or valid on the territory of the Republic of Crimea, and no orders or instructions of the Supreme Council of Ukraine or other bodies of authority of Ukraine issued later than February 21, 2014 will be acted upon. 
*
All laws and regulations of Ukraine, with exception of those mentioned in the first paragraph of this clause, remain applicable and valid on the territory of the Republic of Crimea until relevant laws and regulations are issued by the Republic of Crimea. 

3. *All activity of any bodies of authority of Ukraine is as of now terminated,* and all the relevant authority, property and funds of these bodies of authority will be taken over by the bodies of authority of the Republic of Crimea designated by the Government of the Republic of Crimea. 

4. With the aim of protecting the citizens and economic entities, the courts of Ukraine shall continue their operation on the territory of the Republic of Crimea, and all their rulings pertaining to the applicability of the laws and regulations of Ukraine on the territory of Crimea must not contradict this resolution. 

The highest judicial agencies on the territory of Crimea will be the relevant courts of appeal located on the territory of the Republic of Crimea and on the territory of the special status city of Sevastopol. 

5. *All agencies, businesses and other organizations established by Ukraine or with its participation on the territory of Crimea as of now belong to the Republic of Crimea. 
*
6. *State property of Ukraine situated on the territory of the Republic of Crimea as of the date this resolution is adopted as of now is the state property of the Republic of Crimea*. 

7. *The property of the Ukrainian trade unions and other non-governmental organizations situated on the territory of the Republic of Crimea as of the date this resolution is adopted as of now belongs to the local Crimean subdivisions of the said organizations, and in the absence of such becomes the state property of the Republic of Crimea. 
*
8. *The Supreme Council of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea on behalf of the Republic of Crimea requests the Russian Federation to accept the Republic of Crimea as a new constituent entity of the Russian Federation with a status of a republic*. 

9. This resolution enters into force on the day of its adoption.


----------



## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

The sacntions are hilarious:

1) The EU is endorsing sanctions over a democratic vote that won't harm Russia but will harm the EU
2) Drone strike Barry is endorsing sanctions against select Russians, over a democratic vote, despite the fact said Russians were forewarned and got their money out early.

Pathetic and hilarious.


----------



## Thad Castle (Jul 8, 2006)

Russians have small penises.


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Thad Castle said:


> Russians have small penises.


Big balls though.


----------



## Thad Castle (Jul 8, 2006)

TomasThunder619 said:


> Big balls though.


It don't count if you shave them to make them appear larger


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)




----------



## Lady Eastwood (Jul 10, 2006)




----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Catalanotto said:


>


Finally some positivity to this thread.


----------



## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

I love how Russia annexes Crimea to massive hoopla and sanctions yet Israel gets away with non stop expansion.

Mind you, I'm not in favor of sanctioning Israel. I'm in favor of wiping it off the earth.


----------



## Thad Castle (Jul 8, 2006)

roadkill_ said:


> I love how Russia annexes Crimea to massive hoopla and sanctions yet Israel gets away with non stop expansion.
> 
> Mind you, I'm not in favor of sanctioning Israel. I'm in favor of wiping it off the earth.


Once again, you are bringing an entirely different country into the conversation. *Sigh* grasping for straws I see...

You should really stop licking dirty homeless buttholes, it is rotting what little bit of brain you have.


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

CRIMEA UPDATE











_Crimea's Premier Sergey Aksenov, Head of Crimean State Council Vladimir Konstantinov, Russian President Vladimir Putin and Sevastopol mayor Alexey Chaly (L-R)
_
MOSCOW, March 18 (RIA Novosti) – *Russian President Vladimir Putin and the leaders of Crimea signed a treaty Tuesday reunifying the Ukrainian breakaway region with Russia after 60 years as part of Ukraine.
*
Putin signed the treaty with Crimean Prime Minister Sergei Aksyonov and other Crimean leaders after addressing both houses of parliament, as well as heads of Russian regions and representatives of public organizations at a special assembly in the Kremlin.

*The Russian parliament is expected to ratify the treaty imminently*.


*PUTIN CALLS OUT WEST ON BLATANT HYPOCRISY DURING ADDRESS TO DUMA*









_“Our western partners created the Kosovo precedent with their own hands. In a situation absolutely the same as the one in Crimea they recognized Kosovo’s secession from Serbia legitimate while arguing that no permission from a country’s central authority for a unilateral declaration of independence is necessary,” Putin reminded, adding that the UN International Court of Justice agreed to those arguments. 

“*That’s what they wrote, that what they trumpeted all over the world, coerced everyone into it – and now they are complaining. Why is that?*” he asked. 
_


----------



## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> *PUTIN CALLS OUT WEST ON BLATANT HYPOCRISY DURING ADDRESS TO DUMA*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't like that statement. Putin is being exactly as hypocritical as the "west" is.

If Kosovo's situation is absolutely the same as the Crimea situation is, how come Russia hasn't recognized Kosovo's independence and are generally opposing it?


----------



## 1andOnlyDobz! (Jan 3, 2011)

So with Edward Snowden, the issues with Russia's attitude to homosexuality (which I think is awful btw) & USA sending openly gay delegates to Sochi and now Crimea, I make that 2-1 to Russia


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> I don't like that statement. Putin is being exactly as hypocritical as the "west" is.
> 
> If Kosovo's situation is absolutely the same as the Crimea situation is, how come Russia hasn't recognized Kosovo's independence and are generally opposing it?


The point is the West goes by the axiom "*do as I say, not as I do*." 

Putin just pointed out that if the U.S. and its NATO allies are legally justified in supporting Kosovo's secession from Serbia, then Russia is equally justified in supporting Crimea's succession from junta controlled Ukraine.

You can try to twist logic and words, but the bottom line is *"what's good for the goose is good for the gander!" *

*Plain and simple, according to the Kosovo precedent set by the U.S., NATO, and the U.N., the West and U.N. cannot claim that Russia did anything illegal*.


----------



## TheJack (Mar 13, 2006)

1andOnlyDobz! said:


> So with Edward Snowden, the issues with Russia's attitude to homosexuality (which I think is awful btw) & USA sending openly gay delegates to Sochi and now Crimea, I make that 2-1 to Russia


Nah, more like 2-2, did you forget that the US put a fascist regime into power and Putins puppet fleed the country.


----------



## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> The point is the West goes by the axiom "*do as I say, not as I do*."
> 
> Putin just pointed out that if the U.S. and its NATO allies are legally justified in supporting Kosovo's secession from Serbia, then Russia is equally justified in supporting Crimea's succession from junta controlled Ukraine.
> 
> ...


Absolutely, the States & co. are being the usual hypocrites that they are, I never denied that nor do I approve that. I was just pointing out that Vlad isn't exactly the least hypocritical person when it comes to this situation.


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> Absolutely, the States & co. are being the usual hypocrites that they are, I never denied that nor do I approve that. I was just pointing out that Vlad isn't exactly the least hypocritical person when it comes to this situation.


You can say he's being somewhat hypocritical, but realistically can Putin afford to just "turn the other cheek" and play by the rules while the "States & Co." do whatever they want??? In fact, can any nation that desires not to be forced into the uni-polar new world order of the U.S. hegemony walk a strict line playing by the rules?

Here's my frank opinion on the situation. Had there been an election a year from now in Ukraine (as there should have been) and Yanukovich lost to Tymoshenko (or someone else) resulting in the Crimea petitioning to secede, I would *NOT* have supported secession, because the government was elected and the constitution was followed. 

The way it stands now, *there is a junta running the country that came to power by force of arms, drove out the president and government, and trashed the Ukrainian Constitution*. Not only is the present regime illegitimate, it is being run by ultra-nationalist elements whose views would be considered unacceptable in any E.U. country. In such a situation Crimea is well within its rights to secede in order to protect itself.

The present illegitimate regime is astute enough to understand that the Ukrainian military is not only ill-prepared, but unreliable. Half of the soldiers are Eastern Ukrainians who will not shoot their fellow Eastern Ukrainians if ordered to do so. This is precisely why they are forming a *"National Guard" composed of the militant fighters of the "Maidan Mob."* This will be the junta's equivilant of Hitler's "brown shirts" and will be sent to the eastern and southern Ukrainian regions to dispense justice as they see fit.

Taking the above into consideration, I strongly believe that the people in eastern and southern Ukraine are in imminent danger. If the newly formed "National Guard" moves east and its thugs begin a reign of terror you can be sure there will be Russian tanks and fighter jets streaming across the Ukrainian border.

- Mike


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

Everyone should secede from whoever claims to rule them. Too bad the Crimeans merely traded one master for another. :draper2


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

What the fuck do you people expect from Putin to do? Check the damn map, and learn something about geopolitics basics, you'll see the NATO cunts all over Putin, very close to Russia, all the strategic points are already being usurped by them, or in the process of usurping. This is just Putin saying "no more, guys", he has to draw the line somewhere.


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

CamillePunk said:


> Everyone should secede from whoever claims to rule them. Too bad the Crimeans merely traded one master for another. :draper2


The Crimeans don't look at it that way.

- Mike


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Chismo said:


> What the fuck do you people expect from Putin to do? Check the damn map, and learn something about geopolitics basics, you'll see the NATO cunts all over Putin, very close to Russia, all the strategic points are already being usurped by them, or in the process of usurping. This is just Putin saying "no more, guys", he has to draw the line somewhere.


Absolutely! Over the last two decades since the dissolution of the Soviet Union NATO has moved further and further east until it is now right up to the Byelorussian and Russian borders. A missile/radar shield on those borders is in the works as well as the less known Pacific missile shield.

It's pretty obvious that Russia was never welcomed into the world community as promised at the end of the Cold War. Instead, the "U.S. & Co." has taken every opportunity to expand Washington's hegemony and box in Russia so it would remain on its knees and subserviant to the West.

- Mike


----------



## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Batko10 said:


>


Ignoring Russia's neo-nazi problem I see :lmao:lmao


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Al Borland said:


> Ignoring Russia's neo-nazi problem I see :lmao:lmao


Yeah. Batko is acting like there's no neo-nazis in Russia.


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Yeah. Batko is acting like there's no neo-nazis in Russia.


The neo-nazi gangs in Russia are *NOT* supported by the government or, as in Ukraine's unfortunate situation, *RUNNING* the government.

- Mike


----------



## Doc (Oct 4, 2010)

From reading various sources am I right in saying Putin has threatened to drop the dollar?
If he does that were all buggered.


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

MAIDAN THUGS BEING FORMED INTO "NATIONAL GUARD" UNITS








[/URL][/IMG]
_Members of a "Maidan" self-defense battalion take part in weapons training at a Ukrainian Interior Ministry base near Kiev March 17, 2014. (Reuters / Gleb Garanich
_

*The new army of the coup-imposed government in Ukraine* has begun training exercises outside Kiev. Although the National Guard’s roles are law enforcement and border protection, many in the country’s east fear the military unit will work against them.

Concerns over the loyalty of the Ukrainian army and security agencies have pushed Kiev to start forming an additional armed branch, *which it will fully control. 
*
The National Guard is designed to be 60,000-strong and *completely independent from the country’s military and police. 
*
*Recruitment across Ukraine began on March 13, with around 20,000 people already joining the new uniformed service*. 

“Most volunteers have battle experience. *Most of them protected the rights and freedom of citizens of Ukraine at Maidan*,” Stepan Poltorak, a commander with the Ukrainian Interior Troops, told RT. 








[/URL][/IMG]
_Members of a "Maidan" self-defense battalion take part in weapons training at a Ukrainian Interior Ministry base near Kiev March 17, 2014. (Reuters / Gleb Garanich)

_
The coup-imposed government says the National Guard will be tasked with law enforcement duties, protecting the country's borders, and fighting terrorism. 

*However, many in Ukraine – especially in the country’s southeast – fear the new force will eventually turn their weapons against them*. 

*Combat efficiency of the National Guard has become one of the main priorities for the self-proclaimed Ukrainian authorities*. 

Last week, a source familiar with events in the Ukrainian Defense Ministry told RIA-Novosti that “*the major part of the US financial aid” to the country will be spent on the new security force*. 

*National Guard recruits are being handed serious military equipment *– armored vehicles, rocket launchers, machine guns, and grenades are being used during training. 

Last week, a source familiar with events in the Ukrainian Defense Ministry told RIA-Novosti that “*the major part of the US financial aid” to the country will be spent on the new security force*.


----------



## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Errr like Russki Cossacks & "National Resistance forces" which are separate from Policia/Military yet are still armed :lol

C'maarrn Batko you're just contradicting yourself these days


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Al Borland said:


> Errr like Russki Cossacks & "National Resistance forces" which are separate from Policia/Military yet are still armed :lol
> 
> C'maarrn Batko you're just contradicting yourself these days


Hi, Al! 

First of all, the Cossack patrols in high crime areas of Russian cities are *UNARMED* and are independent groups with no governmental affiliation or salary. 

Secondly, if you are referring to the "Self-Defense Units" formed by citizens in Crimea - these were locally formed units that were formed to resist the thugs from the Maidan Mob and prevent a "Maidan" in Crimea. The Crimean self-defense units were formed before the overthrow of the legal government in Kiev and Russian involvement. 

C'maarrn, Al - you're just showing your ignorance and prejudice these day! :lol

- Mike


----------



## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Batko10 said:


> Hi, Al!
> 
> First of all, the Cossack patrols in high crime areas of Russian cities are *UNARMED* and are independent groups with no governmental affiliation or salary.
> 
> ...







What was that about Cossacks being unarmed? How are you going to spin this factual evidence of Cossacks being armed? Lemme guess they were actually Ukrainian's in disguise right? :leo


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Al Borland said:


> What was that about Cossacks being unarmed? How are you going to spin this factual evidence of Cossacks being armed? Lemme guess they were actually Ukrainian's in disguise right? :leo


Al, you're really stretching. A cossack's "nagaika/нагайка" (short whip) is *NOT* an AK-47, hand held RPG launcher, hand grenade, etc. It stings, but it's *NOT* fatal. fpalm

What this bunch of Cossacks did was stupid and wrong, but it's ludicrous trying to spin auxiliary, unarmed Cossack patrols into something akin to what is going on with the formation of the Maidan thugs into a Ukrainian National Guard.

Nice try, but anyone with some common sense sees the huge difference.:lmao

- Mike


----------



## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Batko10 said:


> Al, you're really stretching. A cossack's "nagaika/нагайка" (short whip) is *NOT* an AK-47, hand held RPG launcher, hand grenade, etc. It stings, but it's *NOT* fatal. fpalm
> 
> *What this bunch of Cossacks did was stupid and wrong*, but it's ludicrous trying to spin auxiliary, unarmed Cossack patrols into something akin to what is going on with the formation of the Maidan thugs into a Ukrainian National Guard.
> 
> ...


Finally some common sense tho


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Al Borland said:


> Errr like Russki Cossacks & "National Resistance forces" which are separate from Policia/Military yet are still armed :lol
> 
> C'maarrn Batko you're just contradicting yourself these days


I thought it was obvious by now. Obvious to all except for one.


----------



## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

The Ukrainians are blocking 200,000 Russians from entering of leaving the Republic of Transnistria. How far do these guys wanna push Russia before getting slapped to the fucking ground?


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

roadkill_ said:


> The Ukrainians are blocking 200,000 Russians from entering of leaving the Republic of Transnistria. How far do these guys wanna push Russia before getting slapped to the fucking ground?


Stupid move by Ukrainians. It's fucking finished. Why can't all the sides just back off and continue living normal life. Ukrainians got a new government, Russians got Crimea. Can't it just end here before it goes too far?


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

A TYPICAL DAY IN JUNTA RULED UKRAINE...

OR

...WESTERN UKRAINIANS OUT-NAZI THE NAZIS


*KAZAKHSTAN OWNED TRUCKS STOLEN BY MAIDAN NATIONAL GUARD THUGS / HEAD OF UKRAINIAN STATE TV REPLACED MAIDAN STYLE*




_Pony-tailed Xenophobic Ukrainian Svoboda MP Igor Miroshnichenko with the help of party ideologist Andrey Ilyenko yelled, abused and beat interim head of Ukraine's National TV _







_Maidan Mob National Guard recruiting thugs and neo-Nazis to "dispense justice" in eastern and southern Ukraine._


----------



## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

why are we still posting russia today content when its been said they are being told what to say from putins people


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

GOD said:


> why are we still posting russia today content when its been said they are being told what to say from putins people


*Because RT is reporting what is happening!* Western news sources clam up as soon as the radical, ultra-nationalist nature of the coup d'etat raises its ugly head.

The Western news media won't report about the neo-nazi thugs beating and humiliating the head of Ukrainian State TV before forcing him to resign for his "ideological" sins. The same is true of all the other stories RT reports. 

If RT didn't report these stories which reveal the true nature of the illegal government in Kiev you would never hear about them. After RT puts out the story you might see the Western news sources picking it up and mentioning something about it so they won't completely lose credibility.

You may not like what RT reports, but they are *NOT* lying. If you can prove that they are lying that's one thing. But, if you don't like them because they report the truth that doesn't fit your agenda that's another thing.

- Mike


----------



## Lady Eastwood (Jul 10, 2006)

Hope Ukraine destroys Russia. Fuck Russia.


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> *Because RT is reporting what is happening!* Western news sources clam up as soon as the radical, ultra-nationalist nature of the coup d'etat raises its ugly head.
> 
> The Western news media won't report about the neo-nazi thugs beating and humiliating the head of Ukrainian State TV before forcing him to resign for his "ideological" sins. The same is true of all the other stories RT reports.
> 
> ...


Yeah, all that the western media posts is propaganda. And all that RT posts is true news as it is happening. Do you even understand what you are saying? Like, do you even think when typing or dou you leave the thinking to RT and just copy their stuff?


----------



## Doc (Oct 4, 2010)

roadkill_ said:


> The Ukrainians are blocking 200,000 Russians from entering of leaving the Republic of Transnistria. How far do these guys wanna push Russia before getting slapped to the fucking ground?


Do you have a link to this nugget of news?


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Yeah, all that the western media posts is propaganda. And all that RT posts is true news as it is happening. Do you even understand what you are saying? Like, do you even think when typing or dou you leave the thinking to RT and just copy their stuff?


The readers can judge for themselves. The videos of neo-Nazi thugs beating up and intimidating local prosecutors, heads of TV stations, etc. were not staged. They actually happened. How come the western media ignored incidents such as these en masse???

Do you even understand what is really going on here or do you just listen to Voice of America and leave the thinking to the neo-cons in Washington???

- Mike


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Catalanotto said:


> Hope Ukraine destroys Russia. Fuck Russia.


To the dismay of Russophobes like yourself, Ukraine won't be destroying Russia or anyone else.

Unfortunately, the U.S. and its NATO allies are helping Ukraine destroy itself.

- Mike


----------



## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Another Crimean AMA 

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/20skiy/iama_crimean_citizen_from_sevastopol_not_sure_if/

Today's Vice Ukrainian update


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Al Borland said:


> Another Crimean AMA
> 
> http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/20skiy/iama_crimean_citizen_from_sevastopol_not_sure_if/
> 
> Today's Vice Ukrainian update


I doubt that VICE NEWS will be reporting when these thugs are sent into Kharkov, Donetsk, and other regions to intimidate and repress the rights of the Russian speaking population.

The "National Guard" is not being formed to defend the country against a Russian invasion. It's being formed to enforce the ideology of the neo-Nazis running the country and repress any contrary opinion in the eastern and southern regions of Ukraine.

- Mike


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> The readers can judge for themselves. The videos of neo-Nazi thugs beating up and intimidating local prosecutors, heads of TV stations, etc. were not staged. They actually happened. How come the western media ignored incidents such as these en masse???
> 
> Do you even understand what is really going on here or do you just listen to Voice of America and leave the thinking to the neo-cons in Washington???
> 
> - Mike


I see you don't get what I am saying. Do you admit that RT posts propaganda? I don't need anything else. It's just a simple yes or no question. Just say yes or no. It's all I'm asking.


----------



## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Batko10 said:


> I doubt that VICE NEWS will be reporting when these thugs are sent into Kharkov, Donetsk, and other regions to intimidate and repress the rights of the Russian speaking population.
> 
> The "National Guard" is not being formed to defend the country against a Russian invasion. It's being formed to enforce the ideology of the neo-Nazis running the country and repress any contrary opinion in the eastern and southern regions of Ukraine.
> 
> - Mike


Vice regularly report from war zones I'm sure the equivalent of the Michigan Militia won't intimidate them


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> I see you don't get what I am saying. Do you admit that RT posts propaganda? I don't need anything else. It's just a simple yes or no question. Just say yes or no. It's all I'm asking.


The word "propaganda" implies spreading rumors and false information. Based on that my answer is an unequivocable "*NO*."

Do you admit that the U.S. and western news media post propaganda?

- Mike


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Al Borland said:


> Vice regularly report from war zones I'm sure the equivalent of the Michigan Militia won't intimidate them


I'm sure VICE NEWs won't be intimidated by the militia thugs, especially since they are on their side.

What I questioned was VICE NEWS' veracity once the thug militia is sent in to repress the Russian speaking population in the south and east. Will they report on the atrocities that will surely occur or will we have to rely on RT for the truth???

- Mike


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> The word "propaganda" implies spreading rumors and false information. Based on that my answer is an unequivocable "*NO*."
> 
> Do you admit that the U.S. and western news media post propaganda?
> 
> - Mike


:ti You believe everything that you read on RT. You actually admitted it. I now understand that this is pointless. And yes, I agree that part of what the 'western' media posts is not true. I am not deluded or brainwashed by anyone.


----------



## Karma101 (Sep 7, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> To the dismay of *Russophobes* like yourself, Ukraine won't be destroying Russia or anyone else.


I love :russo


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> You believe everything that you read on RT. You actually admitted it. I now understand that this is pointless. And yes, I agree that part of what the 'western' media posts is not true. I am not deluded or brainwashed by anyone.


I believe my eyes and ears when I see and hear on RT the neo-Nazi thugs stating that they will not give up their arms; beating up government officials, tossing molotov cocktails, etc. 

I understood long ago that debating with you is pointless. My posts are not aimed at trying to convince you or other supporters of the neo-Nazi government in Ukraine. They are intended to provide information and news that the West attempts to ignore to those who want to know what is really going on.

- Mike


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)




----------



## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

I like how every western news source and nations are secretly friends and always watching out for each other when they are at each other throats 92% of the time

It gives me a nice sense of community

Some times brother gotta fight


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

UKRAINIAN SOLDIERS CHOOSE TO JOIN RUSSIAN MILITARY RATHER THAN SERVE THE ILLEGAL GOVERNMENT OF THE MAIDAN MOB COUP
*16,000 of the 18,000 soldiers of the Ukrainian Army stationed in Crimea have opted not to serve the junta in Kiev and have applied to join the Russian Army.*

MOSCOW, March 22 (RIA Novosti) - Less than 2,000 of Ukrainian troops serving in Crimea decided to leave the peninsula for Ukraine, the Russian Defense Ministry said on Saturday.

"As of March 21, less than 2,000 out of 18,000 Ukrainian servicemen staying on the territory of the Republic of Crimea decided to go to Ukraine," the ministry said in a statement.

Those willing to continue their service in the Ukrainian armed forces will be provided with transport to carry their families and belongings to the Ukrainian territory.

A total of *147 military units* in Crimea have hoisted Russian flags instead of Ukrainian and applied to join the Russian armed forces.

"St. Andrew's flags of the Russian Navy have been raised on *54 out of 67 vessels of the Ukrainian Navy*, including eight warships and one submarine," the defense ministry said.

*Ukraine's only submarine, the Zaporizhzhia, joined the Russian Black Sea Fleet earlier on Saturday *and will be soon relocated to its base.


----------



## Doc (Oct 4, 2010)

Understand a Ukrainian soldier has been shot? Could this be the spark or will Ukraine continue to roll over and shout empty threats?


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

Well that is one of the job hazards.


----------



## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Honestly I feel like 9/10s of the situations are manufactured by both sides just to so the citizens will have someone to hate 

People tend to be self destructive when they don't have someone to blame their problems on so you need an "outrage" to shake things up

You just need to sacrifice a small nation every now and then and both sides get a huge boost in support and look better 

Putin had got a lot of flak a few years ago from Russian for supposed election rigging and now he is a hero standing up to western powers and NATO is stopping an insane dictator from taking land like a manic 

It's win/win (unless you are the smaller nation)


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

stevefox1200 said:


> It's win/win (unless you are the smaller nation)


So it's a win/lose. There's always a smaller nation, so there's always gonna be a losing side. It can't be a win/win.


----------



## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

The Manowarrior said:


> So it's a win/lose. There's always a smaller nation, so there's always gonna be a losing side. It can't be a win/win.


Yeah for a smaller nation its lose/lose because either side will take advantage of you

but that's global politics (and life) most people won't play without a rigged deck


----------



## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)




----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Al Borland said:


>


*Not a shot fired, not one molotov cocktail thrown!* 

The Ukrainian sailors didn't sound very enthusiastic singing their national anthem. When the Russian anthem was played they all snapped to attention, except for a dozen or so Western Ukrainian sailors who obviously will be going back to Kiev to support the junta.

16,000 of the 18,000 Ukrainian sailors in Crimea are resigning from the Ukrainian Navy and joining the Russian Navy. The crews of the Ukrainian Navy ships have turned two thirds of them over to Russia including Ukraine's only submarine.

I don't know what VICE NEWS was trying to accomplish with this video, but it certainly didn't advance their anti-Russian agenda.

- Mike


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

BELARUS DEFACTO RECOGNIZES CRIMEAN SECESSION FROM UKRAINE


*Lukashenko: If forced to choose, Belarus will always choose Russia*

23.03.2014 16:22

MINSK, 23 March (BelTA) – In the situation when Belarus will have to choose, it will always support Russia, Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko told reporters on 23 March, BelTA has learnt.

“If you ask me what choice I will make (Crimea is not the hardest of these choices), *I will tell you that considering our common historical background, our Union State project, and our agreements with the Russian Federation, we will be with Russia and there should not be any further speculations about it,*” the Belarusian head of state said. 

“Our domestic, foreign, military policy is not aimed against NATO or anyone else. We will pursue a balanced policy. *However, if we had to choose, we will choose the Russian Federation,”* Alexander Lukashenko said. He added that he told Russian President Vladimir Putin about it during the recent conversation. Alexander Lukashenko told Vladimir Putin that “there is no reason to worry; Belarus will always be with the Russian Federation”. 

*The Belarusian President drew some parallels.* What happened in Egypt, Tunisia and then in Libya; what is happening in Syria? The western world sticks to the same position. *They, first of all Americans, understand that what they do there is illegal. But they act together; they are bound by agreements and arrangements.* In this case, why should we act against Russia? We are with Russians,” the Belarusian leader said. 

“*I will tell you honestly: the western world is a sham; the people over there are good for nothing.* This is the essence of the West,” the head of state said. 

“And then, how many promises were made. They said they would never pressure or bully Belarus, or impose economic sanctions. *In fact, they did it.* They imposed economic sanctions and political sanctions on 200 people in Belarus, including the Belarusian President. Afterwards, they promised to lift all the sanctions. When will these promises be delivered on? Why are they still pressuring us?” Alexander Lukashenko said. 

The President drew attention to the issue that was raised by some journalists in relation to sanctions against Belarus and against Russia: “It is scary. Russia is not Belarus. Therefore, they start wobbling and wagging in order to save face. They are not capable of anything and one should think twice before dealing with them. They can deceive you and they deceived me many times. And then, to save face, they started demanding to democratize, devaluate, hold elections in a "proper way," and release "political" prisoners. I tell them - show me the article on which we charged these "political" prisoners. We explained to them on what charges those people were jailed. 

*This is the West. This is one of the factors that I take into consideration while shaping and pursuing our foreign policy,”* the Belarusian leader said. 

*“Therefore, we will stay with our people, brotherly nations*, Ukraine, Russia and other nations. We will not make any problems for our neighbors. But we will closely monitor the situation and respond to the developments near our borders,” Alexander Lukashenko underlined. 

_© BelTA. A hyperlink to the main page of the website www.belta.by must be provided when materials of the website are used for electronic publications, website pages, electronic files or other electronic forms of use. _


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

^ Big surprise there


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Everyone's anti russki according to batko :lmao:lmao


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

BELARUS' ELECTIONS TO LOCAL COUNCILS CONCLUDED
*CEC: 18,809 deputies of local councils elected

*
24.03.2014 09:50


MINSK, 24 March (BelTA) – *18,809 deputies *of the local councils were elected, BelTA learned from the Belarusian Central Election Commission (CEC).

There are *1328 local councils *in Belarus. New members were elected to more than half of them. Four councils did not hold the elections. One candidate ran in three districts, and he did not get the required number of votes. Seven districts will hold repeated elections. Elections in all districts were recognized valid.

The turnout at the elections to local councils of deputies of Belarus was at *77.27%. 5,391,103 people voted*: this includes those who voted early, at home, and on the election day on 23 March.

The lists of voters for the local elections included *6,970,612 *people.

_© BelTA. A hyperlink to the main page of the website www.belta.by must be provided when materials of the website are used for electronic publications, website pages, electronic files or other electronic forms of use. _


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Can you stop posting *Russia* Today links in regards to Ukraine/Crimea tho? It's the equivalent of posting FOX News sources in a debate regarding the Iraq/Afghan wars


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Al Borland said:


> Can you stop posting *Russia* Today links in regards to Ukraine/Crimea tho? It's the equivalent of posting FOX News sources in a debate regarding the Iraq/Afghan wars


He knows no other source. Because everything apart from Russia Today and Russian media is propaganda, obviously. And he himself admitted that he believes everything on RT is true and that they don't post any propaganda.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Al Borland said:


> Can you stop posting *Russia* Today links in regards to Ukraine/Crimea tho? It's the equivalent of posting FOX News sources in a debate regarding the Iraq/Afghan wars


I would love to post articles and links to news sources other than RT and RIA Novosti. I assure you that when I am checking out the news I Google U.S. and Western European news sources *FIRST*.Unfortunately, as I have previously mentioned, the western news media does *NOT* report the full picture in Ukraine.

Since everyone in the West reads the pro-junta version of the situation in Ukraine, I would think that list members following this thread would be happy to get the stories that the West is omitting. 

*If you discover that RT or RIA Novosti is lying please bring it to our attention*. However, they are just reporting the news that the West won't, because it doesn't fit in with the U.S./NATO agenda and the mythology that they are creating around the situation in Ukraine.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Time to grab guns and kill damn Russians – Tymoshenko in leaked tape
“[I'll]grab a machine gun, you know what I’m saying, and go shoot this bastard [Putin] in the forehead[/I].”






*Tymoshenko confirmed the authenticity of the conversation on Twitter*, while pointing out that a section where she is heard to call for the nuclear slaughter of the eight million Russians who remain on Ukrainian territory was edited. 

*She tweeted “The conversation took place*, but the '8 million Russians in Ukraine' piece is an edit. In fact, I said Russians in Ukraine – are Ukrainians. Hello FSB  Sorry for the obscene language.” 

The former Ukrainian PM has not clarified who exactly she wants to nuke.

*Shufrych's press service flatly contradicted Tymoshenko*, slamming the tape as fake. The press release reads "The conversation didn't take place," as quoted by korrespondent.net.

*WESTERN UKRAINIAN "LEADER" AND "DEMOCRAT" YULIA TYMOSHENKO SAYS*:
"_We must grab arms and go kill those damn katsaps [a Ukrainian word used to refer to the Russians in a negative tone] together with their leader_."

“_grab a machine gun, you know what I’m saying, and go shoot this bastard [Putin] in the forehead_.” 

“_I’ll use all my connections, I’ll raise the whole world – as soon as I’m able to – in order to make sure.. Bugger!.. not even scorched earth won’t remain where Russia stands_,”


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*The President of the Republic of Belarus*

*The official Internet portal of the President of the Republic of Belarus*


President of the Republic of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko answers questions of mass media representatives on 23 March 2014

*23 March 2014 *

_*The ONT TV Channel:* The situation in Ukraine is the biggest story in the world today. Belarus is a neighboring country; therefore, we are concerned about what is going on there. What do you think about the current authorities of Ukraine? What is your opinion about the overall situation in the neighboring state_?

*Alexander Lukashenko:* *I will tell you honestly: I am disgusted and repelled by everything that has happened and is happening in Ukraine.* There are many reasons for that, including personal reasons. Ukraine is a brotherly country for me and for you. It is a part of our Slavonic community. Therefore, the things that are going on there are rather painful to me.

When I say that I totally reject the things that have happened and are happening in Ukraine, I express my personal, civil position.

The things that took place in Ukraine are called differently. Some call them a revolution, some say it was an armed takeover of power; others call it an unconstitutional coup. Do you think I like it? Do you like it? Of course, not. *It is not okay when the legitimate government is deposed this way and a new government is installed.
*
As for my attitude to the people who came to power in Ukraine, there are different people among them; *some of them are professionals, some are simply loudmouths*, just like everywhere; and this is particularly true if a government is formed in the course of rallies and coups.

*Therefore, my attitude to them varies*.

*Some of the so-called politicians that are now in the government or close to it in Ukraine call themselves successors of Bandera, UNA-UNSO, the Ukrainian Insurgent Army*, i.e. organizations of Ukrainian nationalists. Several thousand militants from these organizations also acted on the territory of Belarus during the Great Patriotic War. *You know what they did here.* I will give you just one example – Khatyn. It was not discussed and studied during the times of the USSR, but later we found out that the abhorrent things that happened in Khatyn and other places were done by representatives of these insurgent organizations that had been set up in Ukraine. They burned alive a lot of our people, including all the people living in Khatyn.

*If the people who came to power in Ukraine relate themselves to these subhumans, what kind of attitude are we supposed to have towards them*?

*However, there are also good people, professionals, and businessmen in the new government of Ukraine. I like these people, but I do not like the others*. No matter what my attitude towards them is, we need to build up relations with them, of course, if they stay in power, if they continue their political career – and this will be determined by the forthcoming presidential election and, I hope, the parliamentary elections in Ukraine. *We will cooperate with those who will be supported by the Ukrainian people*.

Why? There are objective reasons. Ukraine is a neighboring state and the two countries cooperate closely in various fields.

*We can relate to the overwhelming majority of the Ukrainian people; they are the same as we are*.

When I was 20 years old I served in the border troops on the territory of Western Ukraine. This was the first time I met the so-called westerners in Ukraine. I met more of them when I worked in the agricultural sector. I would never say that these people are different from us. These are very hardworking, honest and kind-hearted people. Politicians are to blame for the partition of Ukraine.

The Ukrainian government made a lot of mistakes and thus, fell into disrepute. They did not think it over properly. Looting and fighting started in the streets, there is no order, and property is being redistributed. *Dishonest oligarchs and some other people are taking advantage of it. Can I approve that? Of course, not*!

*As for Crimea, I do not like it when the integrity and independence of a country are broken*.

*However, who masterminded this situation?* Many say that Russia could not wait to grab Crimea and annex it and so on. *You politicians, you should not have given a reason to let it happen*.* Russia saw these persecutions of Russians or rather all Slavonic people*, *when Crimea faced this threat *(Crimea once belonged to Russia, however, this is not the point) *Russia had to interfere*, as there are 1.5 million Russians there and about two million who could not accept the developments in Ukraine. No one can say that Russia took to arms and people went there and grabbed Crimea. *The current government created the reason for it to happen*.

And the main thing. We are destined to live together; We will, no matter if we want it or not, build up relations with the government that will be chosen by the Ukrainian people. I have already said that we have never interrupted and will not interrupt our relations with Ukraine.

[_*The ONT TV Channel:* What could be done to prevent Ukraine from becoming a federation?
_
*Alexander Lukashenko:* I would not want that. A federation is like a piano, where one force will play on one side and others on the other, including external ones. *This will destabilize the situation forever*.

*Ukraine should remain an integral, indivisible, non-aligned state*. It will be sensitive for Belarus and Russia, if, say, NATO troops land in Ukraine tomorrow. *We cannot accept this. This is our biggest concern. Therefore, it is necessary to agree that no one has the right to go further in Ukraine.* We must help Ukraine to deal with these challenges.

*[The transformation of Ukraine into a federation is very dangerous because it means further war, further internal confrontation which will turn external (the Crimea is an example*).

This should never be allowed.

What can be done for the unification of Ukraine? Ukraine needs help today. *It is necessary to conduct the elections in the proper way. I do not believe that a normal presidential election can be organized in such a situation, with several power groups and units struggling*. For your information, every big politician in Ukraine has a group of 150 up to 1,000 armed people who were armed long ago. A spark to this powder mixture will blow up the whole Ukraine, and everyone will suffer: us, Russians and the West. The Crimea issue would seem like the smallest of the problems. The situation would be much worse and scarier. Therefore it is necessary to stabilize the situation now.


_*The Belarus Segodnya Newspaper*: At the previous elections to the local councils of deputies you said that you wanted these local councils to work in closer collaboration with the population. What do you think about the current state of affairs? What would you like to wish to the new deputies_?

*Alexander Lukashenko*: First of all, I want to thank all deputies who will resign after these elections. I was told that nearly half of them seek to be re-elected to the local councils. It is not bad, there should be some continuity.

A lot has been done by councils of deputies, from maintaining order in their communities to adopting local budgets. This is a huge piece of work and this work is important. This is unsalaried work. It is a manifestation of respect and support. Trust of voters is a good reward for the councils of deputies.

I am grateful to the councils of deputies for the peace and accord that we have maintained with their help. They are in the frontline, face to face with their voters. Members of local councils have to reconcile the interests of the power vertical and people. Executive authorities cannot do everything members of local councils ask for, while the latter express the interests of their voters. They are doing their best to resolve local issues though it is not always feasible. Therefore, they are often between a rock and a hard place. It is not easy to be close to people, try to do something and see that not everything is possible today. I know that it is very difficult to a member of the local council. Therefore, we should thank them for the work they have already done.

I thank that at these elections the most progressive councils of deputies will be shaped in a democratic way. According to the Minsk mayor, there were queues in the capital city yesterday because people want to cast their votes before they went to the country. It means that our people are politically active and responsible. People want peace and stability. They believe that local councils of deputies will help preserve these peace and stability.

To all the new deputies who will be elected at these election I wish to fulfil their promises and to be closer to people. Our people deserve it!


<...>

This page is available at: http://president.gov.by/en/news_en/...estions-of-mass-media-representatives-on-8348


© 2014, The Press Service of the President of the Republic of Belarus


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## Lady Eastwood (Jul 10, 2006)

Batko, do you have a Russian background? If so, I think we are supposed to hate each other.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Catalanotto said:


> Batko, do you have a Russian background? If so, I think we are supposed to hate each other.


I'm an ethnic Byelorussian. You can hate me if you like.:|

In any case, I don't hate you.

- Mike


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2588784/Deadly-improvised-weaponry-used-Ukrainian-protesters-ousted-president.html


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Al Borland said:


> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2588784/Deadly-improvised-weaponry-used-Ukrainian-protesters-ousted-president.html


There you go - western news media glorifying the weapons used by insurgents to kill police officers and anyone else that opposed their illegal power grab.

I like the way he says, "...to overthrow the *corrupt* government." As if corruption was all of a sudden something new in post Soviet Ukrainian politics. Yushchenko and Tymoshenko were just as big crooks as Yanukovich, if not bigger.

The reason for the insurgency had nothing to do with "corruption." Power and control were the reasons for the coup d'etat by the Western Ukrainians. The West supports them for the same reason - to gain control of Ukraine's economy and plant NATO bases there.

- Mike


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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

All Russian media is credible and anything that is Western media is not credible!!!!!


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## Boo Radley (May 21, 2011)

GOD said:


> All Russian media is credible and anything that is Western media is not credible!!!!!


Well I'd hardly call the Daily Fail a credible news source! :argh:


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

GOD said:


> All Russian media is credible and anything that is Western media is not credible!!!!!


OF COURSE! I mean, the east is always right and the west is always wrong. Obviously.


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## Lady Eastwood (Jul 10, 2006)

Batko10 said:


> I'm an ethnic Byelorussian. You can hate me if you like.:|
> 
> In any case, I don't hate you.
> 
> - Mike


hahahaha, no, I was just making a joke because my background is Ukrainian and I thought maybe yours was Russian.

I only hate one person in the world. You have to do a lot to make me hate you.


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## Gandhi (Sep 15, 2012)

I once spoke to an actual Russian person online who defended Joseph Stalin and told me most of the things westerns say about him is propaganda, then he proceeded to tell me how homosexuals are the scorn of the earth and how westerns are fools who just want to insult everything conservative. Also he was ridiculously religious and told me how godlessness is fortunately dying in Russia.

Thought I'd share.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Catalanotto said:


> hahahaha, no, I was just making a joke because my background is Ukrainian and I thought maybe yours was Russian.
> 
> I only hate one person in the world. You have to do a lot to make me hate you.


My son was born in Kharkov, Ukrainian SSR and genetically is half-Byelorussian and half-Ukrainian. Having lived there for a short time, I am very familiar with Kharkov and was married to my son's mom in the main Orthodox Cathedral there. 

What is going on in Ukraine makes me sick. It shouldn't have happened and wouldn't have happened if the U.S. and E.U. didn't fan the flames and support the Western Ukrainian ultra-nationalists.

The Western Ukrainians notwithstanding, Ukrainians, Byelorussians, and Russians are from the same clay. We are all Eastern Slavs and have common thousand year history. 

Unfortunately, no matter which way this goes Ukraine is fucked. If it splits with east and south seceding and either becoming a separate country or joining Russia that is the end of a unified Ukraine. 

If it stays together and falls under the control of the U.S./E.U./NATO and the IMF it will become a total economic wasteland with mass migration to western Europe of millions of unemployed Ukrainians.

It looks like a no win situation.

- Mike


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2589194/How-Sochi-ghost-town-just-weeks-Olympics.html


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

PRESIDENT LUKASHENKO SPEAKS CANDIDLY ABOUT YANUKOVICH ON UKRAINIAN TELEVISION
_The full interview will be on video this Friday. This is just a two minute clip of his comments on Yanukovich's actions as President of Ukraine_.

*What the President said can be read in English in the highlighted passages in the report below*.







*ALEXANDER LUKASHENKO, PRESIDENT OF BELARUS, GIVES AN INTERVIEW TO UKRAINIAN TELEVISION *

MINSK, 26 March (BelTA) – Belarus President Alexander Lukashenko has granted an interview to the Ukrainian TV show Shuster Live, BelTA has learned.

The statements made by the Belarus president for mass media on 23 March have met a strong interest in Ukraine. The opinion and stance of the Belarusian head of state with regard to the situation in the neighboring country has made him a key figure in the media sphere.

Savik Shuster, the author and a host of one of the most popular, democratic, and freedom-loving Ukrainian TV shows Shuster Live, asked Alexander Lukashenko to answer several topical albeit not always pleasant questions. Some of the questions were not new for Alexander Lukashenko, nevertheless, he spoke his mind for the people of Ukraine.

Among other things the interview touched upon the responsibility of a head of state for the fate of the country and the people. “*As far as Yanukovych is concerned, he is no president for me. In his latest speech he said he is alive and well and he is the commander in chief of the armed forces. Let me ask you one question: where is his army?” said Alexander Lukashenko*.

“*A president has to be with his or her nation however hard it may be. Even if you are shot tomorrow, it is your destiny. You are supposed to make such sacrifices. There is no other way. One day he sits in his residence, reveling in his power, the next day when things go south, he flees? That’s no way to behave for a nation’s leader,” stressed the Belarus President*.

*Therefore, it is impossible to argue against the statements made in the Ukrainian parliament saying that president Yanukovych has removed himself from his office, said the Belarusian head of state.
*
“*I don’t want everyone to think that Lukashenko is a turncoat since he was a friend of Yanukovych’s and now talks like that. I criticize him as a friend. Understand me any way you want. Presidents should not act like that,” Alexander Lukashenko was convinced. “If you have no army, get a gun and go alone. You may be killed… So? We all will be dead sooner or later. But neither your friends nor your relatives nor your sons will be ashamed of you. It is my stance”.
*
The interview with the Belarus president will be aired by the Ukraine One TV channel as part of the Shuster Live show at 19:30 Kyiv time on Friday, 28 March. 

_© BelTA. A hyperlink to the main page of the website www.belta.by must be provided when materials of the website are used for electronic publications, website pages, electronic files or other electronic forms of use_.


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## 1andOnlyDobz! (Jan 3, 2011)

Saw this, felt like it'd be appropriate to put on here. Now keep in mind this is from RT who do get accused of being pro-Russian (so accused of bias) but I personally side with Russia over this specific issue with Crimea and believe the US (and the 'west' in general) are showing tremendous hypocrisy over the matter, which is what this video alludes to.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*2,000 THUGS OF NEO-NAZI "RIGHT SECTOR" THREATEN TO STORM PARLIAMENT IN KIEV TO AVENGE MUZYCHKO'S DEATH*





Up to *2,000 members of the Right Sector*, which recently was revamped into a political party, flooded the square in front of Verkhovna Rada in the Ukrainian capital on Thursday night. The radicals, who brought car tires to burn with them, were banging on the Parliament’s doors, smashing the glass parts in them. They demanded the resignation of the interior minister after their leader Muzychko was killed in a police operation. 

Wearing masks and brandishing bats, they were shouting "Avakov, get out!" 

The parliament building was empty except for guards, some administrative staff and reporters. All the MPs had earlier left the building through an underground tunnel, RIA Novosti reported. 

The protesters were threatening to break into the parliament if their demands were not met, journalists reported from the scene. The Rada’s security in the meantime concentrated in front of the entrance to the building and prepared water cannons, urging the journalists inside not to approach the windows looking onto Constitution Square. 

Several hours into the standoff activists announced the rally was over for tonight as they decided not to storm the building just yet, but reconvene tomorrow. 

On Friday, Verkhovna Rada will hold an emergency session to discuss the possibility of Avakov’s resignation, one of the representatives of the Right sector told Itar-Tass. Right Sector activists have been urged to gather outside the Parliament building at 9:00 GMT. 




*NEO-NAZI MUZYCHKO SHOT DEAD*


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> *2,000 THUGS OF NEO-NAZI "RIGHT SECTOR" THREATEN TO STORM PARLIAMENT IN KIEV TO AVENGE MUZYCHKO'S DEATH*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And how about people who are protesting against the new government? They are communist thugs.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> And how about people who are protesting against the new government? They are communist thugs.


Tomas, you're really stretching. The "communist thugs" in Crimea held a peaceful referendum and seceded from Ukraine in an orderly manner. They didn't beat up and humiliate officials in the prosecutor's office or the head of the state television network. They didn't kidnap and terrorize MPs and other government officials who simply voiced their concerns regarding the coup d'etat by the Maidan Mob in Kiev. They didn't dare anyone to come and take their weapons. And, they certainly didn't hijack and steal 50 brand new trucks for the new "National Guard" to use to "keep order" and "dispense justice."

In the eastern Ukraine the people opposed to the Kiev Maidan Mob government didn't use violence to try to stop military convoys. They simply parked hundreds of cars on the road, blocked the convoys, and forced them to turn around. That was an excellent example of passive resistance ala Gandhi. 

While that worked with the army the only thing your neo-Nazi Maidan Mob understands is brute force. Even so, the limited violence in the east and south cannot compare to what the neo-Nazi thugs perpetrated in Kiev and are perpetrating now. In fact, the violence by eastern Ukrainians is a reaction to what the ultra-nationalists are perpetrating.

By the way, trying to make out the people opposed to the coup d'etat and illegal government in Kiev as "communists" is pitiful. The majority of people opposed to the illegal government are not even affiliated with any political party. That's a smear tactic I'm sure that you picked up from the US and EU.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> By the way, trying to make out the people opposed to the coup d'etat and illegal government in Kiev as "communists" is pitiful. The majority of people opposed to the illegal government are not even affiliated with any political party. That's a smear tactic I'm sure that you picked up from the US and EU.
> 
> - Mike


Same thing can be said about the people who you call nazi. They are (at least most of them) not nazis.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)




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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

can we just rename this thread to Batko's Eastern Propoganda Bias Thread


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

GOD said:


> can we just rename this thread to Batko's Eastern Propoganda Bias Thread


I guess the truth hurts! 

As I said before, I invite you to show that these RT reports and videos have false information or are outright lies. Instead of personally attacking me you should be thanking me. If I didn't post the reports from RT and RIA Novosti the list would not know about most of what the Western Ukrainian ultra-nationalists and Kiev junta were up to.

You haven't posted any information that contradicts the hijacking of 50 brand new trucks by the neo-Nazis for the "National Guard," the kidnappings, beatings, and humiliation of PMs that don't recognize the junta in Kiev, the closing down of Russian language TV stations and reinstitution of discriminatory anti-Russian language laws, etc., etc. If I didn't post the RT/RIA Novosti articles and videos reporting on these events no one would know what is really going on in fascist, junta controlled Ukraine. The western media, especially U.S. media, ignores or glosses over these events.

- Mike


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

I've been to RT's website

Their US page is literally all police brutality, western debt, and corrupt politician stories 

Their Russian news page is full of fluff stories about Russian politics, Russia fighting terrorists and "western hypocrisy" stories that read like a social justice blog

Their editorials contains rants about a global conspiracy that is trying to ruin Russia and how "intellectuals" support RT's views


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

stevefox1200 said:


> I've been to RT's website
> 
> Their US page is literally all police brutality, western debt, and corrupt politician stories
> 
> ...


Their U.S. page has nothing to do with this Eastern European thread.

You may not like their editorial style, but that's not the question. They don't lie and their news reports are reporting facts that the western media deliberately ignores and omits because it doesn't fit in with their agenda for Ukraine. 

Show me where they have deliberately lied about Ukraine's situation. You can't, because they are reporting the facts about Ukraine - facts that you and the White House and NATO don't like. 

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

So you will just continue overlooking everything that the east has done wrong and will continue blindly worshiping Putin, calling people you don't like 'nazi scums' and reposting Russia Today news, believing that it is the only true source on the internet, yet claim not to be deluded and call everything else 'propaganda' and in every your post just attacking the west every chance you get and still deny that you are biased? Good luck with that.


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## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

According to Putin's former assistant, Putin wants Finland and the baltics to be part of Russia again. 

Well, it was nice knowing y'all.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> So you will just continue overlooking everything that the east has done wrong and will continue blindly worshiping Putin, calling people you don't like 'nazi scums' and reposting Russia Today news, believing that it is the only true source on the internet, yet claim not to be deluded and call everything else 'propaganda' and in every your post just attacking the west every chance you get and still deny that you are biased? Good luck with that.


Tomas, show me that the news that RT and RIA Novosti is reporting is false. You can't, because they are reporting what is happening and what the western media refuses to report. 

In frustration, all you can do is attack me personally. Well, enjoy yourself, but it doesn't support or further your argument.

- Mike

P.S. To make everything crystal clear, we are talking about news events here, *NOT* editorial opinion. Show me where RT and RIA Novosti are lying about the news they report!


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Spoilers

I am actually a CIA agent in Ukraine 

Thanks to the dilliagant posting "Operation ROBO PHOENIX THE 3RD" is ruined 

Believe me it would have been awesome 

I will keep the cat the company brought in but I have no clue what I am going to do with those orphans


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

MoxleyMoxx said:


> According to Putin's former assistant, Putin wants Finland and the baltics to be part of Russia again.
> 
> Well, it was nice knowing y'all.


That is probably why the guy is Putin's "former" assistant. Obviously, he was smoking something other than tobacco when he made that absurd statement.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Ukrainian nationalists attack anti-coup motor rally with hammers and bats

Published time: March 30, 2014 01:17 
Edited time: March 30, 2014 01:51 

*The population of Southeastern Ukraine, expressing their discontent with the current government in Kiev are facing increasingly violent intimidation*. A recent anti-Maidan motor rally in Zaporozhye was attacked by ‘self-defense’ nationalist thugs.

*Fighters from the local Maidan self-defense nationalist squad blocked and attacked a column of cars bearing Russian, regional and Ukrainian flags* that was heading from a neighboring town of Melitopol to join an anti-government rally in Zaporozhye last week. 

The anti-Maidan activists gathered on Lenin Square to rally for Ukraine joining the Customs Union and to protect the Russian language in the region, an activist from Melitopol, Ekaterina Umonets told RT. To support their cause, some 15 cars and two mini-buses, left Meritopol to join the protest movement in Zaporozhye, a city of over 750,000 people. 

“When the motor rally was about to enter Zaporozhye, it became clear that an ambush was being organized by the Maidan criminals,” eyewitnesses Artyom Tymchenko told RT. 

Once the motorists reached the bus and railway station ultra-right forces attacked the cars to block their movement. 

*Near the railway station the column was stopped by the Maidan bandits, who started beating people, taking their property, smashing cars*,” Tymchenko says. 

Maidan self-defense forces justified their actions by saying that they “suspected” the presence of weapons in the cars, and thus reacted to the “pro-Russian separatists and provocateurs,” local media reported. *Local authorities however did not report any weapons in possession of the activists*. 

The motorists, with many women and elderly people among them, say they suffered “a sudden attack by members of the Right Sector.”* The police in the meantime provided little to no help as the attackers continued to intimidate the activists*. 

“The police, who are supposed to sort out the situation, are not going about their job with any enthusiasm, and *although the attackers didn't hide their faces, no one has been arrested so far*. Which simply leads to the conclusion that they acted under the protection of the criminals currently in power.” 

One of the members of the nationalist gang was injured when he fell off the hood of a moving car as he tried to halt a vehicle, instead falling and breaking a leg, according to some reports. Activists however said he stood up and walked away fine after the collision. 

Anti-Maidan protests in Zaporozhye are being held under an "Our Town" slogan and is headed by Vladimir Balagura. Following the attack on the car convoy, "Our Town" organized a fundraiser to repair the damaged vehicles. 

On Tuesday representatives from "Our Town" movement appealed to the leaders of the Right sector and local Maidan self-defense squads to disarm their men 

“It is very scary to witness when people are running at you with weapons, shovels, and batons, with chains, metal rods,” an Our Town representative said after a meeting with the local governor Valery Baranov, as she urged authorities to “get rid of these men from our streets and disarm them.” 

In another worrying incident this week, *a group of Ukrainian vigilantes have been hunting out people they accused of being "pro-Russian" in Dnepropetrovsk in eastern Ukraine*. 

In the meantime Right Sector, the most prominent nationalist movement in Ukraine has become a political party, with their leader Dmitry Yarosh, who is wanted on terrorist charges in Russia, running as a presidential candidate in Ukraine elections on May 25. 

The Right Sector manifesto, announced in early January 2014 said, that “all those who at this point would try to tame the revolutionary energy of the masses should be proclaimed traitors and punished in the most severe way,” GlobalSecurity.org quotes. “Death to the regime of internal occupation! Freedom or death! Glory to Ukraine!” says the group in their appeal to the nation. 

Actions by the ultra-right fighters in Ukraine have been relentlessly criticized by the Russian government, and have recently received wide condemnation by the EU.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

US supporting Yarosh and Right Sector: a victory for terror

by JOHN ROBLES
30 March 2014










*The US Government, using neo-Nazi extremist elements, carried out a coup d’état against the legitimate Ukrainian government*.

Admissions, statements, and the actions of US Government officials, along with hundreds reported and released taped conversations, private e-mails, and uncontested facts, prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that *the USA was behind the putsch in Ukraine*, yet the “world community” is quiet, and *the disgrace and affront to humanity that the West calls the “Euromaidan” continues to blight and sully the concepts of democracy, rule of law, sovereignty, and civilisation in front of the eyes of the world*. ​

*The geopolitical architects of the Euromaidan*

Brzeziński acolytes, neo-conservative PNAC planners, the CIA, NATO, the Pentagon, and the US corporate/military industrial complex, which controls the entire US Government, including US President Barack Hussein Obama (who’s become nothing more than a gas salesman of late) and the entire US foreign policy establishment decided they wanted régime change in the Ukraine. The goal of the western cabal in re the Ukraine is manifold, but it includes:

•Cementing American hegemony on the former Soviet space
•Installing NATO military elements to surround Russia
•Ending Russian influence in the Ukraine
•Dividing the Slavic world
•Weakening the Russian Orthodox Church
•Controlling and profiting off the flow of Russian gas into Europe
•Evicting the Black Sea Fleet
•Ending the trade relationship between the Ukraine and Russia

The planners needed a fifth column in Ukraine, one that would hate Russia enough to do anything to bring about the change of government that it needed in order for Washington to continue with its plans of global hegemony and control of resources. *They spent at least 5 billion USD and 10 years training neo-Nazis, including the Right Sector, in organising a coup d’état *timed to begin with the start of the Olympic Games in Sochi, to lessen the impact of the success that Russia had in organising and hosting the games.

The world knows all of those facts (and more), as is the plain and simple fact that *the junta in Kiev is nothing more than an installed puppet show organised by the West, which in no way represents the Ukrainian people*. The names and actors behind the coup are also no secret, as is the fact that the Right Sector is nothing but a gang of ruthless lawless Nazi thugs; yet, there isn’t an outcry, there’s no backing off by western politicians, who continue to support lawless Nazi killers. *The western media continues to march in lockstep, aiding and abetting what has truly become one of the single greatest disgraces for Washington and the western world.
*
Now, one can have absolutely no doubt (if there ever was one) that the US/NATO/EU are co-conspirators in an illegal, aggressive, amoral, and dangerous project to control the world, its wealth, and its resources. Moreover, they’ll stop at nothing to meet their goal. *Obama (as the signatory) and his Washington planners unleashed what one might call the worst scum of the Earth in Ukraine*, and they’ll soon learn how ignorant they’ve been in their global régime change campaign strategy. 

*This strategy saw Washington supporting terrorists, creating al-Qaeda, recruiting, training, and financing people like Osama Bin Laden, supporting rightwing paramilitaries, and employing an army of non-state mercenaries and private contractors to complete their “missions” around the world*. Only, this time, it won’t stand. Soon, Washington will see how their ignorance of the peoples of the world, and their attempts to shape the world in their own image and to control it will finally cause the end of what we now know as the USA. This end is sure to come because they’ve gone too far, and the people of the world won’t look the other way, and when that option’s gone, those in Washington will finally have to face an accounting for everything that they’ve done, up to the 426 children slaughtered in Latakia Syria.










*Supporting terrorists and using terror*

The “catastrophic and catalysing event” that the neocon planners behind the Project for a New American Century (PNAC) needed as a catalyst for global military domination was 9-11. *Since that day, the “War on Terror” paradigm saw the USA literally use terror to conquer the world*. First, there were the *illegal aggressions against Iraq and Afghanistan*, then, the *surrounding of Russia and China with NATO war elements*, along with the *global expansion of NATO*, which became a global expeditionary force to terrorise the world, to bring it into submission to Washington. We’ve also seen their collusion and coöperation with al-Qaeda and radical Islāmic terrorists;* now, they fund, train, and back neo-Nazis in the Ukraine*.

*The Right Sector is the latest American régime change force*, and like the USA using the terror of nuclear attack when need be, *the Right Sector used terror to overthrow a democratically elected government in a European country, and it continues to attempt to control and bring the Ukrainian people into submission through a western-backed reign of terror*. Broadly defined, terrorism is the use of terror to bring about political aims, which is exactly what the Right Sector did. They believe that they did so for their fascist neo-Nazi ideology and for Ukrainian “purity”, *but in reality, Washington just used and manipulated them into bringing about a régime change that’d lead to the complete destruction and enslavement of what’s left of the Ukraine once the West divides up the spoils*.

*The Right Sector*

*The Right Sector is a blight and the disgrace against humanity*. It and all of its allied groups continue to occupy the Maidan, the central square of Kiev. They hold the Ukrainian people and the Ukrainian Government hostage; their reign of terror continues unabated, for the most part, it’s unchallenged. 

The Right Sector is a neo-Nazi group led by the terrorist Dmitri Yarosh. *They’re ideological descendants of Stepan Bandera, a World War II Nazi collaborator*. Indeed, even the German Nazi SS considered this Ukrainian fascist leader’s brutality and inhumanity extreme. *During their orgy of slaughter and bloodshed, the Ukrainian Banderovtsy killed thousands of Jews and other ethnic minorities in the Ukraine*. They slaughtered children, especially small girls, hanging their victims from street lamps and other public fixtures as a warning. Repeatedly, the Right Sector threatened to hang their opponents and placed nooses all over the country as a warning to anyone who opposes them. *They’ve openly called for hanging blacks, Jews, and Russians* (something also supported by their brethren the Ku Klux Klan and other neo-Nazi groups); *they’ve threatened to hang public officials and anyone else who doesn’t follow their whims*.










*Dmitri Yarosh*

*Their leader, Dmitri Yarosh, is a known terrorist who fought alongside Chechen terrorists *(the same Chechen terrorists that the USA and the UK gave asylum to on multiple occasions) against the Russian forces. He’s a bloodthirsty animal with no scruples, he’ll scream “Glory to Allah” or “Heil Hitler”, so long as he’s playing to the bloodlust of whoever he happens to be killing with.

Recently, Yarosh called upon Chechens to rise up and launch terrorist attacks on Russians in the Ukraine, for open warfare with the Russian Federation, and for Crimean Tartars to join his Right Sector in fighting in Crimea. Yarosh is on an international wanted list and several countries and governments sanctioned him for his past activities. *He’s on the wanted list for forming illegal armed groups and openly calling for terrorist acts and murder*. He should also be there for organising and taking part in an armed coup, which overthrew a democratically elected government but so far, no ones’ filed or called for charges as to the coup. 

*A rabid-dog, frothing-at-the-mouth with hate for Russia, he’s the perfect servant for Washington in the Ukraine, although he hates the West as well, and will bite their hand when the time comes*. Yarosh announced that he’s running for president in the upcoming Ukrainian election.










*Aleksandr Muzichko*

Otherwise known as Sashko Bily (“White Al” in peasant dialect), *Muzichko was also another rabid dog like Yarosh, but with fewer brains; he’s nothing but a ruthless brute*. In addition, he’s a wanted terrorist and a leader of the Right Sector. Muzichko fought with Chechen terrorists, and Russia wants him for torturing and murdering captured Russian soldiers. 

Shortly before his death, Muzichko received a lot of media attention for his storming government offices and for his assault on a local procurator, events filmed and placed on the internet. He faced ridicule for one segment that appeared on the internet, where he challenged a gathering of frightened officials (whose office he’d invaded) to take away his automatic rifle, his knife, and other weapons. *He epitomised the image of a brainless bandit, whose only means of attaining power is through violence and fear*.

Muzichko’s life ended the way he led it. They shot him, or he shot himself; he died like a dog, with his face in the dirt. *After his death, Right Sector “peaceful demonstrators” attempted to storm the Rada building, demanding that junta MVDU boss Arseny Avakov resign*. Many of the Right Sector “peaceful demonstrators” called for his hanging for the death of their “brother”. The Right Sector claims that Avakov ordered Muzichko’s killing. 

It’s interesting to note that *the Western-installed junta is ready to arrest, and, perhaps, even kill Right Sector activists who helped them gain power*. A recent video released by several news agencies shows Euromaidan activists confronting their paymasters, unhappy because they didn’t get their money. *This further emphasises the fact that the West simply used the Right Sector and other groups, and now intend to dispose of them*.










*Crimes and atrocities committed by the Right Sector*

The overthrow of the democratically elected Ukrainian government and the continuing occupation of the Maidan are a disgrace for the Ukraine in the eyes of the world; *it’s a clear and resounding victory for western lawlessness and mafia/terrorist tactics*, their reign of terror includes too many crimes to list here, but I’ll attempt to list a few.

*Arresting, deporting, and shutting down the press*

The Right Sector seized, interrogated, and deported scores of Russian and foreign journalists. *They beat, intimidate, terrorise, and even kill Ukrainian media workers, bloggers, and anyone else they can get their hands on who speak out against them *or in favour of Russia, or who attempt to report their illegal activities. *The Ukraine and the Right Sector shut down all Russian television broadcasts into Ukraine* and even attacked Russian television infrastructure and various websites. They beat many bloggers, who’ve been filmed bloodied and on their knees. The Right Sector forces them to “apologise” to the Ukrainian people. The Right Sector has no problem beating and even killing people in front of cameras, as they killed several cops on the Maidan in December by beating them to death.

*Terrorising and even killing the public*

Before the media blackout hit the Ukraine, there were increasing reports of Right Sector militants killing civilians, and of people fleeing Kiev and the Western Ukraine. *One report told of a bus full of Crimeans killed after having gasoline poured on them, many being beaten, forced to their knees, and made to sing the Ukrainian National Anthem*. There were multiple reports of (it’s common knowledge that it’s standard procedure) the Right Sector threatening the families of officials and anyone else they target, to steal cars, and even force landowners to sign over their deeds, and to burn down the homes of and kill anyone who’s too loud in their opposition. *Recent reports from Ukraine show Right Sector members running rampant in the streets, attacking and beating anyone who wearing a St George Ribbon or anyone appearing to be pro-Russian*. Recently, they attacked a motorcade of pro-Russian activists; they threw hammers and other heavy objects through the windows, forcing the occupants out of their cars, where they beat them. They terrorise Ukrainians into silence, and Russians and other minorities, including Germans, continue to flee the country.

*Holocaust Denial*

*The first act of the junta was to outlaw the Russian language*, which is ridiculous because even the junta’s presidential candidates now broadcast commercials in Russian and leaked videos of internal Right Sector meeting show that they use the Russian language. *The second act, one which the western media conveniently ignored, was a statement to the UN by the junta’s spokesman there, who said that the Nürnberg Trials were illegitimate and that Bandera did nothing wrong*.










*Obama’s support*

Despite all that, US President Barack Obama continues to support the junta and has even had junta leader Yatsenyuk in the White House. To see what appeared to some to be a serious country and serious politicians engaged in supporting the illegal junta in Ukraine is stunning, even mind-boggling, until we realise that the EU association agreement which the junta agreed to pass into law (the reason that the EU/NATO/USA staged the putsch in the first place) *includes a clause to transfer 100 percent of the Russian gas pipeline to Exxon Oil*, after raising gas prices to “European levels”, of course. Want to buy some gas, Europe? The USA is selling.

30 March 2014

John Robles








[/URL][/IMG]

Voice of Russia World Service


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> That is probably why the guy is Putin's "former" assistant. Obviously, he was smoking something other than tobacco when he made that absurd statement.
> 
> - Mike


Absurd? You think Putin DOESN'T want the Baltics? He wants the Baltics as much as he wanted Crimea.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Voice of Russia World Service has a weird mix of editorials mixed in with their news and no clear separation on which is which 

A news source calling some the "worst scum of the earth" is insanely unprofessional and clearly has an ax to grind

CNN and RT at least pretend to be neutral


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

"*SHUSTER LIVE*" - Interview with Belarus President Alexander Lukashenko (March 26, 2014)

_"Shuster Live" is one of the most respected and popular TV interview shows in Ukraine_.

If I can find a copy of this with a simultaneous translation into English I'll post it. In the meantime, those who understand Russian should find this interview very interesting. Note that the percentages shown on the screen constantly change based on the number of Ukrainian viewers who agree or disagree with what President Lukashenko is saying. The higher the percentage - the more viewers agree with the President.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

The Russian government’s assertions that Ukraine is falling into the hands of violent and widespread neo-Nazi thugs is not just an exaggeration, but entirely baseless, according to observers in Kiev.

*The use of propaganda has proved to be a critical tool for all sides of the latest revolution in Ukraine*, beginning in Kiev’s central Maidan Square in late 2013 and culminating in the ouster of the pro-Moscow Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych this February. The new opposition government must now figure out how to parry continued Russian slander while fulfilling its promise of reforming the government along Western lines.

Read more: http://www.usnews.com/news/articles...ssias-neo-nazi-propaganda-campaign-in-ukraine

American source admitting that both sides use propaganda. I must have missed it when RT said this, because you know, they always say the truth and don't omit anything.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> The Russian government’s assertions that Ukraine is falling into the hands of violent and widespread neo-Nazi thugs is not just an exaggeration, but entirely baseless, according to observers in Kiev.
> 
> http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014/04/01/behind-russias-neo-nazi-propaganda-campaign-in-ukraine[/url]


*OK, LET'S GET SOME OTHER OPINIONS. PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RT AND IS NOT A SUPPORTER OF COMMUNISM OR OF RUSSIA BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION.* - Mike 

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/pages/about-paul-craig-roberts/
_*Paul Craig Roberts *(born April 3, 1939) is an American economist and a columnist for Creators Syndicate. *He served as an Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan Administration and was noted as a co-founder of Reaganomics*. He is a former editor and columnist for the Wall Street Journal, Business Week, and Scripps Howard News Service. He has testified before congressional committees on 30 occasions on issues of economic policy_.

Ukrainian Neo-Nazis Declare that Power Comes Out of the Barrels of their Guns

Paul Craig Roberts

Reality on the ground in Ukraine contradicts the incompetent and immoral Obama regime’s portrait of Ukrainian democracy on the march. 

*To the extent that government exists in post-coup Ukraine, it is laws dictated by gun and threat wielding thugs of the neo-Nazi, Russophobic, ultra-nationalist, right-wing parties*. Watch the video of the armed thug, Aleksandr Muzychko, who boosts of killing Russian soldiers in Chechnya, dictating to the Rovno regional parliament a grant of apartments to families of protesters. http://rt.com/news/radical-opposition-intimidating-techniques-882/ [1]

Read about the neo-nazis intimidating the Central Election Commission in order to secure rule and personnel changes in order to favor the ultra-right in the forthcoming elections. Thug Aleksandr Shevchenko informed the CEC that armed activists will remain in CEC offices in order to make certain that the election is not rigged against the neo-nazis. *What he means, of course, is the armed thugs will make sure the neo-nazis win*. If the neo-nazis don’t win, the chances are high that they will take power regardless. 

*Members of President Yanukovich’s ruling party, the Party of Regions, have been shot, had arrest warrants issued for them, have experienced home invasions and physical threats, and are resigning in droves in hopes of saving the lives of themselves and their families*. The prosecutor’s office in the Volyn region (western Ukraine) has been ordered by ultra-nationalists to resign en masse .

*Jewish synagogs and Eastern Orthodox Christian churches are being attacked*. 

To toot my own horn, I might have been the first and only to predict that Washington’s organization of pro-EU Ukrainian politicians into a coup against the elected government of Ukraine would destroy democracy and establish the precedent that force prevails over elections, thereby empowering the organized and armed extreme right-wing.

This is precisely what has happened. Note that there was no one in the Obama regime who had enough sense to see the obvious result of their smug, self-satisfied interference in the internal affairs of Ukraine. 

*If a democratically elected president and ruling party are so easily driven from power by armed neo-nazis, what chance do Washington’s paid stooges among the so-called “moderates” have of forming a government?* These are the corrupt people who wanted President Yanukovich out of office so that they could take the money instead. The corruption charge against Yanukovich was cover for the disloyal, undemocratic “moderate” schemers to seize power and be paid millions of dollars by Washington for taking Ukraine into the EU and NATO. 

The Washington-paid schemers are now reaping their just reward as they sit in craven silence while neo-nazi Muzychko wielding an Ak-47 challenges government officials to their face: “I dare you take my gun!”

*Only Obama, Susan Rice, Victoria Nuland, Washington’s European puppets, and the Western prostitute media can describe the brutal reality of post-coup Ukraine as “the forward march of democracy*.”

The West now faces a real mess, and so does Russia. The prostitutes will keep the American public from ever knowing what has happened, and the Obama regime will never admit it. It is not always clear that even the Russians want to admit it. The intelligent Russian Foreign Minister, a person 100 cuts above the despicable John Kerry, keeps speaking as if this is all a mistake and appealing to the Western governments to stand behind the agreement that they pressured President Yanukovich to sign. 

Yanukovich is history, as are Washington’s “moderates.” The moderates are not only corrupt; they are stupid. *The fools even disbanded the Riot Police, leaving themselves at the mercy of the armed right-wing nazi thugs*. 

Ukraine is out of control. This is what happens when an arrogant, but stupid, Assistant Secretary of State (Victoria Nuland) plots with an equally arrogant and stupid US ambassador (Pyatt) to put their candidates in power once their coup against the elected president succeeds. The ignorant and deluded who deny any such plotting occurred can listen to the conversation between Nuland and Pyatt here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSxaa-67yGM&feature=player_embedded [2] 

The situation will almost certainly lead to war. Only Putin’s diplomatic skills could prevent it. However, Putin has been demonized by Washington and the whores who comprise the US print and TV media. European and British politicians would have their Washington paychecks cut off if they aligned with Putin.

*War is unavoidable, because the Western public is out to lunch*. The more facts and information I provide, the more emails I receive defending the “sincere [and well paid] protesters’ honest protests against corruption,” as if corruption were the issue. I hear from Ukrainians and from those of Ukrainian ethnicity in Canada and the US that it is natural for Ukrainians to hate Russians because Ukrainians suffered under communism, *as if suffering under communism, which disappeared in 1991, is unique to Ukrainians and has anything to do with the US coup that has fallen into neo-nazi hands*.

No doubt. Many suffered under communism, including Russians. But was the suffering greater than the suffering of Japanese civilians twice nuked by the “Indispensable people,” or the suffering by German civilians whose cities were firebombed, like Tokyo, by the “exceptional people”? 

Today Japan and Germany are Washington’s puppet states. *In contrast, Ukraine was an independent country with a working relationship with Russia. It was this relationship that Washington wished to destroy. 
*
Now that a reckless and incompetent Washington has opened Pandora’s Box, more evil has been released upon the world. The suffering will not be confined to Ukraine.

There are a number of reasons why the situation is likely to develop in a very bad way. One is that most people are unable* to deal with reality even when reality directly confronts them. When I provide the facts as they are known, here are some of the responses I receive: “You are a Putin agent;” “you hate Ukrainians;” “you are defending corruption;” “you must not know how Ukrainians suffered at the hands of Stalin.*” 

Of course, having done Russian studies in graduate school, having been a member of the US-USSR student exchange program in 1961, having traveled in Russia, Georgia, Ukraine, and Uzbekistan, having published in scholarly journals of Slavic and Russian studies, having twice addressed the Soviet Academy of Sciences, having been invited to explain to the CIA why the Soviet economic collapse occurred despite the CIA’s predictions to the contrary, I wouldn’t know anything about how people suffered under communism. The willingness of readers to display to me their utter ignorance and stupidity is astonishing. There is a large number of people who think reality consists of their delusions.

Reality is simply too much for mentally and emotionally weak people who are capable of holding on to their delusions in the face of all evidence to the contrary. The masses of deluded people and the total inability of Washington, wallowing it its hubris, to admit a mistake, mean that* Washington’s destabilization of Ukraine is a problem for us all*.

Let us all cross our fingers that another war is not the consequence of the insouciant American public, the craven cowardice of the prostitute media, Washington’s corrupt European puppets, and the utter mendacity of the criminals who rule in Washington.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> ..the *incompetent and immoral* Obama regime’s portrait...
> 
> ...*Thug* Aleksandr Shevchenko...
> 
> ...


Yeah, so completely unbiased...


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## Thad Castle (Jul 8, 2006)

I like where some stories say that "The Prostitutes or Media" will keep the American public from knowing the truth of what is going on in Ukraine. Well hate to break it to you, but most of us Americans don't really give a rats ass anyway. Trust me, this really isn't a big deal to our public or our government for that matter.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Yeah, so completely unbiased...


The point is that the article was written by a *pro-RONALD REAGAN conservative*, *NOT* a communist, a pro-Russian source such as RT, or me.

Apparently, even people who do *NOT* usually support Russia see the hypocrisy of Washington and Brussels, and understand who is really behind events in Ukraine.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Thad Castle said:


> I like where some stories say that "The Prostitutes or Media" will keep the American public from knowing the truth of what is going on in Ukraine. Well hate to break it to you, but most of us Americans don't really give a rats ass anyway. Trust me, this really isn't a big deal to our public or our government for that matter.


What goes on in Ukraine has nothing to do with America and Americans, and it shouldn't be a big deal to them. However, in fact, it is a big deal to the powers that be in Washington who engineered the Ukrainian coup d'etat and regime change. And, they will make it a big deal for the American public.

- Mike


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## Rick_James (May 11, 2012)

I'll admit that I don't know much about this Ukraine situation and it sounds pretty muddled, but am I correct in assuming that Russian stormed Crimea with troops that were unmarked, all the while denying it, and then setting up that rigged election so they could take over the region?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Rick_James said:


> I'll admit that I don't know much about this Ukraine situation and it sounds pretty muddled, but am I correct in assuming that Russian stormed Crimea with troops that were unmarked, all the while denying it, and then setting up that rigged election so they could take over the region?


According to treaties with the legitimate Ukrainian government prior to the Maidan Mob's putsch in Kiev, Russia had the right to keep up to 25,000 troops on Crimean soil because it was leasing the naval bases there. There was *NO* invasion of Russian troops. They were already there when Crimea seceded.

Regarding the elections, if you look at the videos and check out the information regarding those elections it would appear even to the most virulent Russophobe that the elections weren't rigged. *International observers stated that the elections were within international norms*. The masses of people turning out to vote didn't have a gun to their head, and after the vote to secede passed overwhelmingly hundreds of thousands of people across Crimea turned out to celebrate in the streets. 

There was about a 75% turnout of voters and 96% vote for secession from Ukraine.

*Ask yourself how the U.S. and E.U. can condemn the Crimea's peaceful referendum and secession as breaking international law while at the same time applauding and supporting an illegal armed insurgency that violently removed the democratically elected president from office and disbanded the elected government.* 

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)




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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Rick_James said:


> I'll admit that I don't know much about this Ukraine situation and it sounds pretty muddled, but am I correct in assuming that Russian stormed Crimea with troops that were unmarked, all the while denying it, and then setting up that rigged election so they could take over the region?


That's kinda exactly what happened. Russia used the chaos that ensued in the country after pro-European people overthrew pro-Russian government.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> That's kinda exactly what happened. Russia used the chaos that ensued in the country after pro-European people overthrew pro-Russian government.


Wrong on both counts! 

First of all, Washington and Brussels, using Western Ukrainian ultra-nationalists, overthrew the duly *ELECTED* Ukrainian government.

Secondly, while there was chaos in Kiev due to the insurgency by the U.S./E.U. backed Maidan Mob, there was total calm in Crimea. In order to keep out the neo-Nazis of the West, the Crimean people voted to secede from Ukraine and join Russia. 

Tomas supports violent, bloody revolution and removal of the democratically elected government in Kiev. But, like his hypocritical U.S./E.U. role models, he deplores the peaceful referendum and bloodless secession in Crimea.

- Mike

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Wrong on both counts!
> 
> First of all, Washington and Brussels, using Western Ukrainian ultra-nationalists, overthrew the duly *ELECTED* Ukrainian government.
> 
> ...


Illegal government in Kiev - bad.
Illegal government in Crimea - good.

Or let's simplify it:

America/Europe - bad.
Russia - good.

Your far-left pro-Russian point of view is obvious.

By the way, I hate the EU as much as you do. I wish it just disbanded.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Illegal government in Kiev - bad.
> Illegal government in Crimea - good.
> 
> Or let's simplify it:
> ...


VIOLENT INSURGENCY AND OVERTHROW OF LEGAL GOVERNMENT IN KIEV, TRASHING OF CONSTITUTION = *BAD*

PEACEFUL REFERENDUM AND SECESSION OF CRIMEA IN THE ABSENCE OF CONSTITUTION/LEGAL GOVERNMENT IN KIEV AND NEO-NAZI THREAT *=*
*SELF-PRESERVATION*

Or, to simplify it:

U.S./E.U. *= CONTINUATION OF 2 DECADES OF REGIME CHANGE POLICY, NATO EXPANSION, AND BUILDING OF U.S. HEGEMONY*.

RUSSIA = *SELF-PRESERVATION*

How my point of view is far left is a mystery since Russia is not a socialist country. However, your ultra-nationalist, pro-Western Ukrainian point of view is obviousl

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> How my point of view is far left is a mystery since Russia is not a socialist country. However, your ultra-nationalist, pro-Western Ukrainian point of view is obviousl
> 
> - Mike


Far left politics are often associated with capitalism and communism. Far-right with fascism and neo-nazism.

By the way, I consider myself a centrist, rather neutral. I support both sides equally without going extremely left or right.

I can't see why I would be linked with far-right. I don not support neither nazism nor fascizm, I am now racist and do not support any white supremacist groups, I am not a xenophobe (actually the vice versa of it), I am not even a patriot of my country.

Learn your facts, Mike, before you start the name calling. Also, all the name calling doesn't make you look any smarter.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Far left politics are often associated with capitalism and communism. Far-right with fascism and neo-nazism.
> 
> By the way, I consider myself a centrist, rather neutral. I support both sides equally without going extremely left or right.
> 
> ...


Tomas, the fact is that you supported the insurgency and coup d'etat from the beginning. You also turned a blind eye to the decisive role of the neo-Nazi element in the revolution and their present role and influence in the illegal government controlling Kiev.

Well, they may have re-labeled things since back in the day. However, "far left" has never been associated with capitalism to my knowledge. The "far left" as defined in the U.S. is communism. The "left" refers to "socialism." The "left," especially communism has always been the enemy of capitalism.

On the other hand, Nazi Germany was a capitalist state despite the title of "National Socialist" that they hung on themselves. The neo-cons in the U.S. today are all solid pro-capitalist.

If you like we can play Orwellian name games just like the U.S./E.U. When ripping Kosovo from Yugoslavia the U.S. called it "national self-determination." When Crimea opts to secede from Ukraine it is a "breach of international law." But, the violent overthrow of the elected president and government in Kiev and trashing of the Ukrainian Constitution was an "expression of the will of the people." 

The more you look at the situation in Ukraine, the more you realize how full of shit the U.S. and E.U. are. 

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Tomas, the fact is that you supported the insurgency and coup d'etat from the beginning. You also turned a blind eye to the decisive role of the neo-Nazi element in the revolution and their present role and influence in the illegal government controlling Kiev.
> 
> Well, they may have re-labeled things since back in the day. However, "far left" has never been associated with capitalism to my knowledge. The "far left" as defined in the U.S. is communism. The "left" refers to "socialism." The "left," especially communism has always been the enemy of capitalism.
> 
> On the other hand, Nazi Germany was a capitalist state despite the title of "National Socialist" that they hung on themselves. The neo-cons in the U.S. today are all solid pro-capitalist.


My bad. I mistaken capitalism with socialism. Yes, far-left is communism ans socialism. Still, I am not, and do not by any means support neo-nazism. I'm not denying that there were nazis in the coup d'etat in Kiev, but I never said I support them. I supported the people who suffered under the previous government and wanted a change.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> My bad. I mistaken capitalism with socialism. Yes, far-left is communism ans socialism. Still, I am not, and do not by any means support neo-nazism. I'm not denying that there were nazis in the coup d'etat in Kiev, but I never said I support them. I supported the people who suffered under the previous government and wanted a change.


Then they should have waited 12 months and voted Yanukovich out!

And, don't tell me that Yanukovich was any more corrupt than Yushchenko and Tymoshenko, or any of the other oligarchs and scumbags that have ruled Ukraine for the last two decades. The people didn't suffer economically any worse under Yanukovich than under the other crooks that have run the country.

What you unknowingly supported was a U.S. engineered insurgency that utilized neo-Nazi Western Ukrainian extremists as its core shock troops. I can concede that you didn't know before, but by now you should realize what the hell is going on. 

Unfortunately, your hate for Putin and Russia has blinded you to the real villain in this shit - Washington and Langley! Even the E.U. is starting to regret that they got involved in destabilizing Ukraine. 

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Washington is starting to regret their regime change in Ukraine. They have some of their stooges in the government, but they can't seem to get rid of the neo-Nazis of Right Sector and Svoboda. Also, the U.S. is not getting the bases in Crimea for NATO that they coveted. They are probably going to lose all the southern Black Sea coastal regions as well.

The way this is shaping up is that Washington may get control of agrarian Western Ukraine while the industrialized east and south splits off. Using the loan sharks of the IMF they were hoping to suck the eastern industrialized regions dry. This is not looking to likely at the moment. Although, anything is possible.

Tomas, if you think the Ukrainian people were suffering under the Yanukoviches, Yushchenkos, and Tymoshenkos - just wait until the IMF sinks its vampire fangs into the Ukrainian economy. *The IMF makes the Mafia look like amateurs when it comes to loan sharking and extortion!
*
- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Then they should have waited 12 months and voted Yanukovich out!


If you had to live under a regime you don't like, would you just wait a year to vote it out? Just put yourself in their place.



Batko10 said:


> And, don't tell me that Yanukovich was any more corrupt than Yushchenko and Tymoshenko, or any of the other oligarchs and scumbags that have ruled Ukraine for the last two decades. The people didn't suffer economically any worse under Yanukovich than under the other crooks that have run the country.


I never said I support or like the current government. It is not much better than the previous one. Yulia Tymoschenko is as corrupt as Viktor Yanukovich.



Batko10 said:


> Unfortunately, your hate for Putin and Russia has blinded you to the real villain in this shit - Washington and Langley! Even the E.U. is starting to regret that they got involved in destabilizing Ukraine.


This is just a conspiracy theory. I'll leave it to ice_edge. And the EU SHOULD regret this. They should have stayed out of other countries' business. So should Russia and US and everybody else.



Batko10 said:


> The way this is shaping up is that Washington may get control of agrarian Western Ukraine while the industrialized east and south splits off. Using the loan sharks of the IMF they were hoping to suck the eastern industrialized regions dry. This is not looking to likely at the moment. Although, anything is possible.
> 
> Tomas, if you think the Ukrainian people were suffering under the Yanukoviches, Yushchenkos, and Tymoshenkos - just wait until the IMF sinks its vampire fangs into the Ukrainian economy. *The IMF makes the Mafia look like amateurs when it comes to loan sharking and extortion!
> *
> - Mike


Can't say I disagree with this.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> If you had to live under a regime you don't like, would you just wait a year to vote it out? Just put yourself in their place.


I don't like living under Obama, but I'm *NOT* going into the street with my AK-47 and start a revolution. He will be gone in two years and then some other scumbag will take his place and line his pockets.

The point is that things were not worse in Ukraine under Yanukovich. They were the same - fucked up just as they were under Kravchuk, Yushchenko, and Tymoshenko. Yanukovich's corruption, which I don't deny, was just an excuse and smokescreen to cover up the real force behind the putsch - Washington and Langley. 

And, this is not a conspiracy theory. It is just another example of the regime changes that the U.S. has been engineering since the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the alleged "welcoming of Russia into the world community."




The Manowarrior said:


> This is just a conspiracy theory. I'll leave it to ice_edge. And the EU SHOULD regret this. They should have stayed out of other countries' business. *So should Russia and US and everybody else*.
> .


I agree. But, Russia got involved after the U.S. engineered coup d'etat and the destabilization of Ukraine. Prior to that the 
Kremlin was leasing its bases in Crimea and was not threatening Ukraine with military force. 

In fact, Ukraine had some pretty decent economic agreements with Russa and was paying $100 less for natural gas than the $485 per cm they will be paying starting now in April!

It's a moot point and you probably don't agree, but if Ukraine joined the Customs Union with Russia, Kazakhstan, and Belarus they would be a hundred times better off than getting involved with the E.U. They would have been paying $160 per cm of natural gas and half of what they are paying now for oil. And, they would not have had to convert to the Euro and give up control of their banking system.

Anyway, that's another conversation.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> I don't like living under Obama, but I'm *NOT* going into the street with my AK-47 and start a revolution. He will be gone in two years and then some other scumbag will take his place and line his pockets.
> 
> The point is that things were not worse in Ukraine under Yanukovich. They were the same - fucked up just as they were under Kravchuk, Yushchenko, and Tymoshenko. Yanukovich's corruption, which I don't deny, was just an excuse and smokescreen to cover up the real force behind the putsch - Washington and Langley.
> 
> ...


If you don't do anything for a change, nothing is gonna change. Maybe you're just a conservative person. The kind of person who can 'deal with it'. Like, just live your life, mind your own business and don't think too globally. Others just can't take the unfairness of this world and want to change it for better. Of course, everyone understands 'better' differently and then wars start.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

OVER THE PAST 2 DECADES WHO IS THE REAL AGGRESSOR?


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Just went to RT's website. Not even one positive post. Everything is just bad things that happened outside of Russia and bashing of the west.

Anyway, here's something fun for a change:

*Ukraine: 'Darth Vader' presidency bid rejected*










Ukrainian authorities have rejected a bid from a man calling himself Darth Vader, who wants to run in the presidential elections.

The man, who appears in the costume of the fictional character from the Star Wars films and is often accompanied by people dressed in other Star Wars outfits, was nominated for the presidency by the Internet Party of Ukraine. Earlier he told the party's congress that he wanted to turn Ukraine into "a galactic empire".

But the country's Central Electoral Commission says parts of Darth Vader's application were "questionable" and some paperwork was probably forged. Apparently, the man is really an electrician called Viktor Shevchenko, who changed his name to Darth Vader in March.

But at least one commission member suggests Darth Vader's campaign could be an attempt to discredit the upcoming election - possibly by Russia, which does not recognise the Ukraine's interim government. "It may seem like an innocent joke, but someone paid 2.5m hryvnyas ($227,000) for this joke," says Ihor Zhydenko, referring to the deposit that must be given along with the application.

Zhydenko adds that Darth Vader might run for the presidency in Russia, where he has received extensive media coverage. "They already have little green men," he says, referring to Russian troops in the Crimea region. "Such a commander-in-chief would be appropriate."

Twenty-three candidates have been registered to run in the snap presidential election in Ukraine on 25 May. The election was called after President Viktor Yanukovych was ousted following months of protests.


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Since the Ukraine situation has been beat to death here, I'll go ahead and write a bit about the saga that's going on in the Finnish politics.

So, it looks like the rats are starting to leave the sinking ship. Less than two weeks ago the left alliance walked out from the government (and vacated two minister positions) and prime minister Katainen just announced that he'll step down in June. It also seems likely that the Social Democrat party will get a new leader in May, thus changing our Finance minister as well. Not to mention the green party, who might be leaving the government due to new nuclear power plant building permits possibly being handed out.

Can't say I'm too disappointed in that. Paavo Arhinmäki of the Left Alliance was a terrible minister of culture and sport who didn't give a shit about the culture part and for example passed out after drinking too much in the Sochi Olympics and the ice hockey team had to carry him to his hotel room. Katainen wasn't a good PM either; he's the king of double standards who went from getting third most votes in the country in the 2011 elections to basically being hated by the general middle class public, which he finally achieved after the cuts to the social welfare a few weeks ago. And he's pro-NATO, so it's good to get him out of there. All in all, the whole government has been nothing but a farce.



Then again, if all this results in the next years parliamentary elections to be held this year, the anti-euro party Perussuomalaiset, whose leader has promised to push for a referendum on leaving the eurozone if he becomes the PM, might not become the largest party since they are still about 3% behind the current #1 party, although their popularity is rising. That was supposed to be their election to win. :batista3


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> OVER THE PAST 2 DECADES WHO IS THE REAL AGGRESSOR?


I like how you use Kremlin-funded propaganda as a source to try and support your assertion.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> I like how you use Kremlin-funded propaganda as a source to try and support your assertion.


I'm glad you like it. And, I like how you and others start screaming Russian "propaganda" when you don't have a rebuttal to the information that you don't like and doesn't fit in with the U.S./E.U./NATO agenda. 

*Instead of criticizing the source, focus on the veracity of the information*. 

If the information is true then what difference does it make where it came from? The fact is that the map in my post accurately pictures the situation regarding NATO bases surrounding Russia. Obviously, it will be a Russian source that is going to report this information. The U.S. and E.U. media are going to omit and cover up anything that doesn't fit in with their agenda.

If the map inaccurately depicts the locations of NATO bases then you should bring that point up. Otherwise, what are you complaining about? 

- Mike


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> I'm glad you like it. And, I like how you and others start screaming Russian "propaganda" when you don't have a rebuttal to the information that you don't like and doesn't fit in with the U.S./E.U./NATO agenda.
> 
> - Mike


To be honest, you've done the same exact thing with western sources.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> To be honest, you've done the same exact thing with western sources.


I would take umbrage with that statement. I have pointed out the lies and total hypocrisy of the Western reporting on the Ukraine situation while presenting true reports on what the junta is up to. I don't just simply say, "it's western propaganda." 

If it wasn't for the reports I have posted from those "evil" Russian sources this thread would have no information on the hijacking of the 50 Kamaz trucks by Right Sector, the kidnappings and beatings of eastern Ukrainian MPs, the beating, humiliation, and forced resignation of the head of Ukrainian National TV, the renewed repression of the Russian language, Western Ukraine neo-Nazi attacks on eastern Ukrainians and their resistance, etc., etc.

Americans think that just saying that it's a news report from Russian sources makes the report untrue. Lately, that applies more to U.S. reporting than any other news media!

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Pro-Russian protesters seize government buildings in Donetsk, Lugansk

Published time: April 06, 2014 15:44 

DONETSK










The rally in support of the Berkut riot police troops, who were detained by the coup-imposed authorities in Kiev, has *culminated in pro-Russian protesters seizing the regional administration’s building in the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk*.

*Over 2,000 people gathered in Lenin Square in the center of Donetsk to petition for the Berkut officers*, who – they believe – are falsely accused of using fire arms against the rioters during the Maidan standoff. 

The participants in the event called on the “*illegal junta in Kiev*” to end political repressions and persecution of dissidents, the Itar-Tass news agency reports. 

*They demanded their right for self-determination to be respected, pushing for a Crimea-style referendum on independence from Ukraine*. 

The protesters carried Russian national flags, chanted “Russia! Russia!” and displayed banners urging the new Donetsk Region governor, Sergey Taruta, who was recently appointed by Kiev, “to get out.” 

An effigy of a Nazi zealot was also burned in the square, with the action labeled “an act of annihilation of fascism” by the protesters in view of neo-Nazi radicals playing a key role in the Ukrainian coup this February. 

*The people then moved out towards the regional administration’s headquarters, carrying a giant Russian flag*. 

The confrontation with the police broke out on the porch of the government building, *with the pro-Russian protesters depriving a dozen officers of their riot shields*. 










The demonstrators used the confiscated shields to make their way through the main entrance of the building and occupied the balcony. *The Ukrainian flag in front of the administration was replaced by a Russian standard*. 

Eventually, police blocked the demonstrators inside. 

The violence in Donetsk might’ve been provoked by a banner saying “Goodbye, Russia,” which was placed on the administration, Life-News reports. 

The administration headquarters were empty, with only guards inside, as Government officials don’t work on Sundays. 

LUGANSK 










The events evolved in a similar way in Luganks where around a thousand people rallied in front of the local Ukrainian Security Service (SBU) office. 

*They demanded the release of protest leader, Aleksandr Kharitonov, who has been in detention since mid-march, as well as 15 pro-Russian activists detained on Saturday*. 

The people carried Russian flags and chanted “*Shame on SBU*” and “*Freedom to political prisoners*.”










According to the Russian Spring website, a policeman was injured and hospitalized as the protesters stormed the SBU building. One of the demonstrators also reportedly suffered a head injury. 

The governor of Lugansk region and the local Ukrainian Security Service (SBU) chief went out to talk to the demonstrators, *which resulted in six of the detained anti-Maidan activists being released from custody*.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> I'm glad you like it. And, I like how you and others start screaming Russian "propaganda" when you don't have a rebuttal to the information that you don't like and doesn't fit in with the U.S./E.U./NATO agenda.
> 
> *Instead of criticizing the source, focus on the veracity of the information*.
> 
> ...


Actually, I support Russia here. I am highly critical of NATO's expansive tendencies, but I simply refuse to get my information from a network that white-washes Putin's actions, and is completely conspicuous in their agenda. 


Both the West and Russia are exploiting this crisis to advance their own geopolitical interests. Russia are trying to save their only naval fleet on the Black Sea peninsula, whereas the West are trying to expand European hegemony and suppress Putin's interests. The people of Ukraine do no matter. The media are deplorable in their roles, too - alternative are going down the conspiratorial road, saying the uprising was engineered by the West, and the mainstream are trying to paint Putin as a despot, with aspirations in restoring the Soviet Union. 

Both are equally as despotic as each other. So excuse me for being skeptical, although I understand the Russian viewpoint more than the Western.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> Actually, I support Russia here. I am highly critical of NATO's expansive tendencies, but I simply refuse to get my information from a network that white-washes Putin's actions, and is completely conspicuous in their agenda.
> 
> 
> Both the West and Russia are exploiting this crisis to advance their own geopolitical interests. Russia are trying to save their only naval fleet on the Black Sea peninsula, whereas the West are trying to expand European hegemony and suppress Putin's interests. The people of Ukraine do no matter. The media are deplorable in their roles, too - alternative are going down the conspiratorial road, saying the uprising was engineered by the West, and the mainstream are trying to paint Putin as a despot, with aspirations in restoring the Soviet Union.
> ...


Again, one can be skeptical of the *opinions* of the various media sources, both East and West. However, what difference does it make which source reports *facts *and actual incidents.

Assuming they are not making it up or lying, why would it matter to you if it is RT that reports the kidnapping of the PM in Donetsk by Western Ukrainian neo-Nazi thugs? If the BBC and NY TIMES are going to omit reporting on such an incident for whatever reason, isn't it a good thing that RT is giving us that part of the picture?

Seriously, if it wasn't for RT and Russian news sources most of what the ultra-nationalists are perpetrating would not be known due to the deliberate omissions of the Western media.

Whether it was the U.S who engineered the coup d'etat or not, one thing is for certain - one can't blame Russia for what happened. An insurgency was not in Russia's interests by any stretch of the imagination. (On the other hand, it was very much in the interests of the US/EU/NATO.) In fact, even after the junta had consolidated control of Kiev Russia kept out of it. Once it became evident that the Russian speaking population was in danger from the ultra-nationalist junta then reactionary moves by the Russian side began. 

Be that as it may, my point is that if events are reported accurately, what does it matter if it was RT that reported them? 

- Mike


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> Again, one can be skeptical of the *opinions* of the various media sources, both East and West. However, what difference does it make which source reports *facts *and actual incidents.
> 
> Assuming they are not making it up or lying, why would it matter to you if it is RT that reports the kidnapping of the PM in Donetsk by Western Ukrainian neo-Nazi thugs? If the BBC and NY TIMES are going to omit reporting on such an incident for whatever reason, isn't it a good thing that RT is giving us that part of the picture?
> 
> ...


Wait, you honestly believe in the ludicrous and farcical theory that the coup was orchestrated and engineered by the US? Please. I mean, I hope you don't. This is precisely why I am so skeptical of alternative media because they inject such balderdash into current events. Then again, mainstream media do as well, there is no denying that, although RT seems to often go down the conspiratorial route frequently, and its result is remarkably effective. There was a reason why the protests initially stemmed in the Western half of Ukraine as opposed to the Eastern since the former are much more European, both ideologically and culturally, whereas its Eastern bloc is almost indistinguishable from Russia. 

That video you posted angered me slightly, because the network seamlessly embeds negative connotations with NATO, and that is simply too much of a simplistic brand of thinking. There is nothing innately unlawful about NATO's presence. They embedded a sense of stability and security in Europe during the Cold War. Do I agree with their expansion ever since the dissolution of the Soviet Union into Eastern Europe? No. But they are not some devilish 'group' like the network instantly claims. 

Anyway, what happened in Ukraine was _natural_. Now, once it happened, of course the West funded the protests excessively and attempted to magnify its severity (via. media especially) to push for a coup so Ukraine could possibly be replaced by a pro-Western, pro-EU government, but to state they were 'funded' is moronic. I am not saying you subscribe to that notion, but I don't buy into it. If we do, we might as well say the pro-Russian forces in Ukraine are paid protestors, designed by the Kremlin to snatch Eastern Ukraine and restore the Warsaw Pact. It holds little merit and is moreso groundless speculation than anything else. 

Should we blame Russia here? No. But you don't blame the people of Ukraine for wanting to detach themselves from their savage and dismal history with Russia. After all, the Ukraine was involved in - arguably - the biggest genocide in human history, and one of the most vicious communist regimes of the 20th century. Russia has done a lot of burden. So surely we can understand why they're blaming Russia, right, even if it is technically inaccurate? I don't like how the Right Sector is automatically blaming Putin and the Kremlin for their troubles, but I can see the viewpoint. They've suffered unparalleled turmoil over the last 100 years. Many see joining Europe not so much as _wanting_ to be part of the EU, per-se, but a platform to distant their relations with Russia.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

The US engineering uprisings theory is applied to every single uprising against Russia. Same thing was said when Lithuanians and other Baltic states protested against Soviet Union and fought for their independence. Conspiracy theorists also say that it was engineered by Washington. Now they say the same thing about Ukraine.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

The Manowarrior said:


> The US engineering uprisings theory is applied to every single uprising against Russia. Same thing was said when Lithuanians and other Baltic states protested against Soviet Union and fought for their independence. Conspiracy theorists also say that it was engineered by Washington. Now they say the same thing about Ukraine.


Precisely. Whenever there is an uprising, alternative media and conspiracy theorists say they are meticulously orchestrated by the US to advance some agenda, Is this true in some instances? Maybe. But it certainly isn't applicable to the current crisis in Ukraine. As I said in my previous post, if it were pro-Ukranian nationalists seizing Eastern Ukraine yesterday, people would say the West was behind it as a pretext to expand NATO. But since it is pro-Russian forces, then everything is okay because somebody of Putin's caliber could not possibly do anything bad like that, right? I mean, he is only former KGB and somebody who has managed to completely monopolise Russia's political landscape...

He has done nothing wrong. He is completely innocent in all of this. Fact is, the West and Putin are just as bad as each other. They are exploiting the Ukrainian crisis to advance their own geopolitical interests.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Despot said:


> Precisely. Whenever there is an uprising, alternative media and conspiracy theorists say they are meticulously orchestrated by the US to advance some agenda, Is this true in some instances? Maybe. But it certainly isn't applicable to the current crisis in Ukraine. As I said in my previous post, if it were pro-Ukranian nationalists seizing Eastern Ukraine yesterday, people would say the West was behind it as a pretext to expand NATO. But since it is pro-Russian forces, then everything is okay because somebody of Putin's caliber could not possibly do anything bad like that, right? I mean, he is only former KGB and somebody who has managed to completely monopolise Russia's political landscape...
> 
> He has done nothing wrong. He is completely innocent in all of this. Fact is, *the West and Putin are just as bad as each other*. They are exploiting the Ukrainian crisis to advance their own geopolitical interests.


:clap I've been saying this to Batko for a long time, but he seems not to get it.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> Wait, you honestly believe in the ludicrous and farcical theory that the coup was orchestrated and engineered by the US? Please. I mean, I hope you don't. .


I didn't need RT to tell me that Washington and Langley had their hand in the Maidan Mob's insurgency. Since the "end" of the Cold War and the dissolution of the Soviet Union the U.S. has been involved in numerous regime changes and attempted regime changes in post Soviet space and around the world. This is not the first time in Ukraine, and Washington's futile attempts to overthrow the government of Belarus have become a very expensive cottage industry for the American taxpayer.

During the demonstrations prior to the actual insurgency the Western Ukrainian neo-Nazis received plenty of support from the U.S. Visits by McCaine, Nuland, and others fanned the flames and egged on the demonstrators. In the very least Washington and Langley provided support to the insurgents and encouraged the uprising. At most they actually engineered this horror.




Despot said:


> There was a reason why the protests initially stemmed in the Western half of Ukraine as opposed to the Eastern since the former are much more European, both ideologically and culturally, whereas its Eastern bloc is almost indistinguishable from Russia.


The protests initially stemmed from Western Ukraine, because that area has been a hotbed of ultra-nationalism, anti-semetism, Russophobia, and anti-Polish sentiment for centuries. These people are the descendants of the Ukrainian collaborators who fought in the Ukrainian Insurgent Army with the Nazis during WW II. Their grandfathers and fathers were better Nazis than the Nazis when it came to killing Jews and Russians. Ideologically they are closer to Nazi Germans, than anything else. These people were the perfect dupes to exploit in a U.S. engineered insurgency.




Despot said:


> That video you posted angered me slightly, because the network seamlessly embeds negative connotations with NATO, and that is simply too much of a simplistic brand of thinking. There is nothing innately unlawful about NATO's presence. They embedded a sense of stability and security in Europe during the Cold War. Do I agree with their expansion ever since the dissolution of the Soviet Union into Eastern Europe? No. *But they are not some devilish 'group' like the network instantly claims*.


As the Cold War came to a close Gorbachev was verbally promised that NATO would disband after the Warsaw Pact dissolved itself. NATO did not disband. Then they promised that NATO would not move eastward and would maintain its present (at that time) size. NATO moved eastward as fast as it could.

NATO is not some "devilish group???" It is the military arm of the expansion of the U.S. hegemony throughout the world, whose long term goal is to take over and control the Eurasian landbridge. Toward that end it expanded right up to Russia's borders. With NATO at the gates, the ongoing construction of the U.S. missile shield on Russia's borders, and now the Ukrainian situation you too would be worried if you were were Russia.




Despot said:


> Anyway, what happened in Ukraine was _natural_. Now, once it happened, of course the West funded the protests excessively and attempted to magnify its severity (via. media especially) to push for a coup so Ukraine could possibly be replaced by a pro-Western, pro-EU government, but to state they were 'funded' is moronic.


On the one hand, you say that the West funded the protests once they started. On the other hand, you say that saying they were funded is "moronic." 

The idea that what happened in Ukraine is "natural" is ludicrous. The neo-Nazi Western Ukrainians would never have attempted the coup d'etat if they weren't sure they were going to get the support of the West. 




Despot said:


> Should we blame Russia here? No. But you don't blame the people of Ukraine for wanting to detach themselves from their savage and dismal history with Russia. After all, the Ukraine was involved in - arguably - the biggest genocide in human history, and one of the most vicious communist regimes of the 20th century. Russia has done a lot of burden. So surely we can understand why they're blaming Russia, right, even if it is technically inaccurate? I don't like how the Right Sector is automatically blaming Putin and the Kremlin for their troubles, but I can see the viewpoint. They've suffered unparalleled turmoil over the last 100 years. Many see joining Europe not so much as _wanting_ to be part of the EU, per-se, but a platform to distant their relations with Russia.



First of all, Ukraine and Russia have over a thousand year history that between the two of them was not at all dismal. In fact, Kievan Rus was the common birthplace of present day Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia and where they became Eastern Orthodox Christians. If it wasn't for Russia Bohdan Khmelnitsky and his Cossack troops would never have been able to kick the occupying Poles out of Ukraine. The history is way too long to get into here, but the premise that Ukraine suffered forever under Russia is pure bullshit and fabricated by the Western media.

Regarding genocide in Ukraine, even the father of the myth, Robert Conquest, admitted a number of years ago that there was no "genocide" in Ukraine in the 1930s and that the famine in Ukraine and southern Russia was naturally occuring. Poor planning based on a faulty ideological premise exacerbated the problem, but there was no planned genocide of Ukrainians or anyone else. Over a million Russians starved to death, too. People throw the word "genocide" around too freely these days.

- Mike


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Despot said:


> Precisely. Whenever there is an uprising, alternative media and conspiracy theorists say they are meticulously orchestrated by the US to advance some agenda, Is this true in some instances? Maybe. But it certainly isn't applicable to the current crisis in Ukraine. As I said in my previous post, if it were pro-Ukranian nationalists seizing Eastern Ukraine yesterday, people would say the West was behind it as a pretext to expand NATO. But since it is pro-Russian forces, then everything is okay because somebody of Putin's caliber could not possibly do anything bad like that, right? I mean, he is only former KGB and somebody who has managed to completely monopolise Russia's political landscape...
> 
> He has done nothing wrong. He is completely innocent in all of this. Fact is, the West and Putin are just as bad as each other. They are exploiting the Ukrainian crisis to advance their own geopolitical interests.


Change your fucking avy


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Donetsk activists proclaim region's independence from Ukraine


Published time: April 07, 2014 10:07 









_The newly declared Donetsk Republic stands up to the Kiev junta and the Maidan Mob_

*In the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk, a group of activists have declared their region independent from Kiev.* This comes after protesters stormed a local government building last night.

Mass demonstrations against the country's new leadership started peacefully on Sunday, but the situation quickly escalated. 

*Pro-Russian protesters in Donetsk have seized the local power building, including the headquarters of the Security Service of Ukraine and proclaimed the creation of a People’s Republic of Donetsk.* 










Ukraine’s police and security services have not interfered, although officials in Kiev are threatening punishment for the rioters. 

Protesters have erected barricades around the Council building. 

Today at 12:20 local time, a session of the people's Council of Donbass (Donetsk region) took place in the main hall of the Regional Council and *unanimously voted on a declaration to form a new independent state: the People’s Republic of Donetsk*. 

*The Council proclaimed itself the only legitimate body in the region until the regions in southeast Ukraine conduct a general referendum, set to take place no later than May 11*. 

“The Donetsk Republic is to be created within the administrative borders of the Donetsk region. This decision will come into effect after the referendum,” the statement said. 

*The Council in Donetsk issued an address to Russian President Vladimir Putin, asking for deployment of a temporary peacekeeping force to the region*. 

“*Without support it will be hard for us to stand against the junta in Kiev,” said the address. 

“We are addressing Russian President Putin because we can only entrust our security to Russia,” the statement said. 
*










Rallies in support of the federalization of Ukraine continue in a number of cities in southeast Ukraine. Thousands of citizens have joined the protests, demanding the earliest possible federalization of the country. 

*Ukraine’s Ministry of Interior said that last night unknown persons stormed the Security Service of Ukraine building in the city of Lugansk and seized a weapons warehouse there*. During the night’s clashes, nine people were reportedly injured. 









_In Lugansk the people stand up to the Kiev junta!_

*In the city of Kharkov protesters erected barricades around the buildings of the city and the regional administrations and the regional headquarters of Security Service of Ukraine*. 

There were brief clashes between supporters of the federalization of Ukraine and pro-EU demonstrators in downtown Kharkov. Protesters on both sides used fire crackers and stun grenades.










*A demonstration against political repression in Ukraine has also being held in the southern regional center of Odessa*. 










The chiefs of security agencies of Ukraine are reportedly heading to the cities engulfed in protests. 

The interim secretary of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine, Andrey Parubiy, together with acting head of the Security Service of Ukraine, Valentin Nalivaichenko, are set to visit Lugansk. Interim Deputy Prime Minister Vitaly Yarema will visit Donetsk and acting Interior Minister Arsen Avakov has reportedly already arrived in Kharkov. 

The coup-appointed acting president, Aleksandr Turchinov, has threatened that counter-terrorist measures could be taken against those who take up arms against the Kiev authorities, RIA news agency reported. On Thursday, the Ukrainian parliament will tighten laws regarding separatism and could possibly ban certain parties and organizations , Turchinov warned. 

Ukraine’s interim Foreign Minister Andrey Deschitsa announced on Monday that if the situation in the eastern regions escalates, the coup-appointed government in Kiev will take “much harsher” measures than those on the reunion of the Crimea with Russia. Deschitsa gave an assurance that members of the government are already working with local authorities.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

:ti That's just hilarious. A group of people 'declared independence' from a country. Do they even understand what is happening anymore?


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

> Since the "end" of the Cold War and the dissolution of the Soviet Union the U.S. has been involved in numerous regime changes and attempted regime changes in post Soviet space and around the world.


Which ones in particular? And in order to support such an assertion, I would expected reputable and scholarly sources, and not some second-rate propagandic trite that you stumbled across on some blog. Also, when you look at the global unipolar political framework that we are all inhabit, it is hardly a surprise that the leading player that tops the ladder has an incremental role in the international sphere. This includes stamping their presence into governmental change across the world. Political science 101 here. 



> During the demonstrations prior to the actual insurgency the Western Ukrainian neo-Nazis received plenty of support from the U.S. Visits by McCaine, Nuland, and others fanned the flames and egged on the demonstrators. In the very least Washington and Langley provided support to the insurgents and encouraged the uprising. At most they actually engineered this horror.


Not all of them are neo-Nazis. Look, I'll even admit some of the leaders in this uprising have fascist tendencies, but you're actually acting as if this coup was perpetuated by a bunch of far-right extremists, and that is absolutely ludicrous in the extreme. Most of the 'protestors' (or - as what RT will laughably say - _radicals_) are ordinary citizens that were fed up with their dysfunctional government, and all corruption therein. Why this is so hard for you to understand perplexes me. Is it true that the current leaders of the country have far-right ideologies? Yes. But to call this a "neo-Nazi coup" angers me in the extreme because it is baselessly misleading and ill-founded. 



> The protests initially stemmed from Western Ukraine, because that area has been a hotbed of ultra-nationalism, anti-semetism, Russophobia, and anti-Polish sentiment for centuries. These people are the descendants of the Ukrainian collaborators who fought in the Ukrainian Insurgent Army with the Nazis during WW II. Their grandfathers and fathers were better Nazis than the Nazis when it came to killing Jews and Russians. Ideologically they are closer to Nazi Germans, than anything else. These people were the perfect dupes to exploit in a U.S. engineered insurgency.


Arrant fallacy you've exhibited here. How did you come to such a doltish and futile conclusion? I'm serious. How can you say that all of these sentiments floating around are strictly confined to its Western bloc and none else? No. Western Ukraine, as I said, are both culturally and ideologically comparable to Europe. When the EU deal was declined and relations with Russia strengthened, citizens in the Western half revolted because they align themselves moreso with European values than Russian. It so obvious. 



> As the Cold War came to a close Gorbachev was verbally promised that NATO would disband after the Warsaw Pact dissolved itself. NATO did not disband. Then they promised that NATO would not move eastward and would maintain its present (at that time) size. NATO moved eastward as fast as it could.


I have always been critical of NATO's imperialist tendencies, so I can not argue with this.



> NATO is not some "devilish group???" It is the military arm of the expansion of the U.S. hegemony throughout the world, whose long term goal is to take over and control the Eurasian landbridge. Toward that end it expanded right up to Russia's borders. With NATO at the gates, the ongoing construction of the U.S. missile shield on Russia's borders, and now the Ukrainian situation you too would be worried if you were were Russia.


See, you're being too overly-simplistic here. NATO, with of its imperfections and flaws aside, did (and, to some extent, does) embed a sense of stability in Europe, and for various post-Soviet states who endured under the dismal communist regime. I personally know people from Poland who feel much more secure and 'shielded' with NATO's prodigious and demanding presence. I will never agree with NATO's heavily discernible expansion and their constant suppression of Russia's geopolitical interests ever since the fall of the USSR, but to mindlessly dismiss them as devilish or evil is too elementary. It is way too much of an intricate issue to come to such a groundless conclusion. 



> On the one hand, you say that the West funded the protests once they started. On the other hand, you say that saying they were funded is "moronic."
> 
> The idea that what happened in Ukraine is "natural" is ludicrous. The neo-Nazi Western Ukrainians would never have attempted the coup d'etat if they weren't sure they were going to get the support of the West.


Actually, your assertion is ludicrous. You seem to be acting as a mouthpiece for the Kremlin. The uprising instigated naturally, and from there the West capitalised on it and intentionally magnified the protests (via. economic aid) in hope to turn Ukraine into a pro-Western state. The West was acting in its own interests, much like Putin did when he annexed the Crimea to save his naval fleet. 



> First of all, Ukraine and Russia have over a thousand year history that between the two of them was not at all dismal. In fact, Kievan Rus was the common birthplace of present day Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia and where they became Eastern Orthodox Christians. If it wasn't for Russia Bohdan Khmelnitsky and his Cossack troops would never have been able to kick the occupying Poles out of Ukraine. The history is way too long to get into here, but the premise that Ukraine suffered forever under Russia is pure bullshit and fabricated by the Western media.


They do have an extensive history (a lot of which deliberately overlooked by Western media), but I am looking at the recent history of the two states. Namely, its political and industrial affiliations, and there is no doubt that the last one hundred years has been savage for Ukraine, and of course, the various ethnic Russians who lived in it. 



> Regarding genocide in Ukraine, even the father of the myth, Robert Conquest, admitted a number of years ago that there was no "genocide" in Ukraine in the 1930s and that the famine in Ukraine and southern Russia was naturally occuring. Poor planning based on a faulty ideological premise exacerbated the problem, but there was no planned genocide of Ukrainians or anyone else. Over a million Russians starved to death, too. People throw the word "genocide" around too freely these days.


Oh, please. I wrote an essay last year about the Holodomor and there were various peer-reviewed, scholarly articles from reputable academic journals that I spent countless hours reading, and I can assure you, with all the conspiratorial conjecture you're spouting aside, it did happen and it was a genocide.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

The Manowarrior said:


> :ti That's just hilarious. A group of people 'declared independence' from a country. Do they even understand what is happening anymore?


Well, after all, this is coming from a country where Darth Vadar was considered a Presidential candidate.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> :ti That's just hilarious. A group of people 'declared independence' from a country. Do they even understand what is happening anymore?


Apparently, they understand better than you do. The United States set the precedent in Kosovo when it ripped it from Yugoslavia and set up one of its largest military bases there, i.e. Bondsteel Military Base. The "group of people" in Kosovo has a much, much smaller population than the Donetsk region in Eastern Ukraine. But, it had a backer, i.e. the U.S., that had the military to enforce the secession and regime change.

By the end of the 20th century Yeltsin's regime had bled the Russian military of its capability and Russia was where the U.S. and NATO wanted it - on its knees and unable to help Yugoslavia oppose the Kosovo secession. Russia was "good" in those days because it was subserviant to the West. Now that it is back on its feet it is "bad." 

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

So anyone can declare independence from whomever they want?



Despot said:


> Well, after all, this is coming from a country where Darth Vadar was considered a Presidential candidate.


He wasn't ever actually considered a real candidate. He was a member of Ukraine's Internet Party - more or less, a joke.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> Which ones in particular? And in order to support such an assertion, I would expected reputable and scholarly sources, and not some second-rate propagandic trite that you stumbled across on some blog. Also, when you look at the global unipolar political framework that we are all inhabit, it is hardly a surprise that the leading player that tops the ladder has an incremental role in the international sphere. This includes stamping their presence into governmental change across the world. Political science 101 here.
> .


*Covert United States foreign regime change actions*
"United States has been involved in and assisted in the overthrow of foreign governments (more recently termed "regime change") without the overt use of U.S. military force. Often, such operations are tasked to the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)."

"Regime change has been attempted through direct involvement of U.S. operatives, the funding and training of insurgency groups within these countries, anti-regime propaganda campaigns, coups d'état, and other activities usually conducted as operations by the CIA. The United States has also accomplished regime change by direct military action, such as following the U.S. invasion of Panama in 1989 and the U.S.-led military invasion of Iraq in 2003."

*"Since the end of the Cold War"*
"Iraq 1992–96
Afghanistan 2001
Venezuela 2002
Iraq 2002–03
Haiti 2004
Gaza Strip 2006–present
Somalia 2006–07
Iran 2005–present
Libya 2011
Syria 2012–present
Ukraine 2013–2014"
*CITE:* WIKIPEDIA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions

And, let's not forget the myriad attempts and tens of millions of dollars spent on the futile attempts at regime change in Belarus. Also, not mentioned in the report is Yugoslavia and the first regime change in Ukraine in 2005 when presidential winner Yanukovich was turned into the loser after the U.S. engineered "Orange Revolution" reversed the decision and made pro-West Yushchenko president of Ukraine. - Mike

*U.S. regime change actions since 1950*







[/URL][/IMG]
*CITE:* WIKIPEDIA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions




Despot said:


> Not all of them are neo-Nazis. Look, I'll even admit some of the leaders in this uprising have fascist tendencies, but you're actually acting as if this coup was perpetuated by a bunch of far-right extremists, and that is absolutely ludicrous in the extreme. .


Either you have had no contact with Western Ukrainians, or you are an apologist for them.

The Western Ukrainians’ core values have nothing to do with European values unless those values reflect fascism and bigotry. During WW II the Western Ukrainians not only fought alongside the Nazis, they served as their concentration camp guards, policemen, and executioners.

Regardless, you admit that Western Ukraine revolted, because it didn’t get what it wanted, i.e. a deal with the E.U. If their core values are so much more aligned with Western Europe why did they have a revolution and not wait for 12 months and vote out the government? It sounds like “European values” only come into play when they are convenient for Western Ukraine.

*The massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia* 
"The massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia were part of an ethnic cleansing operation *carried out in Nazi German-occupied Poland by the Ukrainian Insurgent Army beginning in March 1943 and lasting until the end of 1944*…According to Grzegorz Motyka, the actions of the UPA resulted in 40,000-60,000 Polish civilian deaths in Volhynia,[3] and from 30,000 to 40,000 in Eastern Galicia."[3][10] 
CITE: WIKIPEDIA, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia

"*The Banderas, or Banderites, are activists in the Ukrainian Ultra Nationalist movement that is now in control of the government in Ukraine*. Under the militant leadership of Stepan Bandera in World War II, the ultra-nationalists organized *the Ukrainian Waffen SS Galician, Nichtengall, and Roland Divisions that collaborated with the Nazis and were responsible for the genocide of over 500,000 people.*" 

"*Following the war, however, Ukrainian Nazis were the only group to escape trial at Nuremburg for crimes against humanity*. Moreover, neither the Banderas, the Ukrainian Waffen SS, nor any other Ukrainian collaborators have ever apologized for their participation in genocide… In the landmark work on the subject , Genocide Committed by Ukrainian Nationalists on the Polish Population During World War II, Ryszard Szawlowski characterizes it this way:"

“…the Germans have long admitted to their crimes, and have apologized for them publicly …."

“Ukrainian genocide committed against the Poles during World War II surpassed German and Soviet genocide …. [It] was marked by the utmost ruthlessness and barbarity, and … up until the present day, it has been denied or, at best, presented with reminders that all is “relative’ or other such evasions.” 
*CITE:* *Center for Research on Globalization*, http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukrain...andera-and-the-legacy-of-world-war-ii/5373773 




Despot said:


> Arrant fallacy you've exhibited here. How did you come to such a doltish and futile conclusion? I'm serious. How can you say that all of these sentiments floating around are strictly confined to its Western bloc and none else? No. Western Ukraine, as I said, are both culturally and ideologically comparable to Europe. When the EU deal was declined and relations with Russia strengthened, citizens in the Western half revolted because they align themselves moreso with European values than Russian. It so obvious.
> 
> 
> 
> .


If the Western Ukrainians values and ideology are comparable to western Europe how come they didn't wait for the upcoming elections next year and vote out Yanukovich and the present government in a democratic manner??? 

Probably, because the only way they can get their people and ideology in power is through violent revolution. They lost the election to Yanukovich in 2005, but got the results reversed through street protests of the so-called "Orange Revolution." They lost to Yanukovich again in 2010 and couldn't repeat the results of the "Orange Revolution" of 2005, so they staged a revolution and overthrew the government violently in 2014.

Despite your supposed "balanced"" assessment of the situation, it would seem that you are not concerned with what (at minimum) 50% of the Ukrainian population believes and feels. 

Also, it's interesting that you see anyone who disagrees with you has having "doltish" and "ludicrous" conclusions.




Despot said:


> Oh, please. I wrote an essay last year about the Holodomor and there were various peer-reviewed, scholarly articles from reputable academic journals that I spent countless hours reading, and I can assure you, with all the conspiratorial conjecture you're spouting aside, it did happen and it was a genocide.


The problem with your “peer-reviewed, scholarly articles” is that they are all written by anti-Russian, pro-Western sources. You complain that I post articles from RT, yet you do the same thing when it suits your side of an argument.

Yes, the famine happened, but it was *NOT* a genocide. There was *NO* premeditated plan to wipe out the Ukrainian population. A natural famine caused the deaths and, unfortunately, an improper response to that famine based on ideological principles rather than common sense made it worse. 

The response to the famine was unfortunate and added to the death toll. However, the famine itself was not deliberately orchestrated with the intent to murder Ukrainians or anyone else. This is a far cry from the premeditated annihilation of Jews, Eastern Slavs, Poles, Romany, and others by the Nazis.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Kiev cracks down on eastern Ukraine after 2 regions proclaim independence

Published time: April 08, 2014 14:50 

Dozens have been arrested as Kiev authorities launched a crackdown on anti-Maidan activists in cities of eastern Ukraine that attempted to declare their independence.

*At least 70 activists have been arrested after a so-called “anti-terrorist operation” launched by Ukraine’s Interior Ministry in the eastern city of Kharkov*. 

According to the country’s interior minister, Arsen Avakov, “the building of the regional state administration is totally free of the separatists who seized it earlier.” 

Hundreds of protesters rallied in Svoboda Square near Kharkov’s regional council building, demanding the release of 70 pro-Russian activists later on Tuesday. The building was surrounded by police. 

On Monday, Kharkov protesters erected barricades around administrative buildings and the regional headquarters of the Ukrainian Security Service (SBU). The demonstrators soon took control of the building. 

*This was followed by clashes with police who reportedly unleashed fire-hoses, stun grenades and tear gas to push the crowd back from the building*. In response, protesters threw several Molotov cocktails at the building and set a pile of tires on fire. The blaze soon spread to the first floor of the building. 

Eventually, a group of local police outside the administration building moved in to push protesters back, allowing fire crews to extinguish the blaze. The building was slightly damaged by the blaze and several windows were broken in the scuffles. 

Activists at the scene said the *law enforcement officers who used force against protesters had been deployed from western Ukraine.* According to some witnesses, the violence was initially triggered by a group of provocateurs. 

Despite the crackdown, a group of at least 150 people gathered in front of Kharkov’s administration building Tuesday to protest against the new authorities in Kiev. 

*Donetsk* 

Ukraine’s southeast has been seeing weekly anti-Maidan demonstrations. 

In Donetsk, activists proclaimed the creation of a People’s Republic of Donetsk after seizing the local administration building. 

This action on Monday was also followed by a special operation. Police took weapons seized by the protesters in the SBU’s regional headquarters, Donetsk Mayor Aleksandr Lukyanchenko said. 

*Ukrainian media however report that the self-proclaimed People’s Republic of Donetsk has ceased to exist*. 

“The Committee on Patriotic forces of Donbass has been receiving numerous calls from the public voicing their disagreement with the proclamation of the republic and its joining the neighboring state as well as conducting a referendum – all those without a legal base in place,” Ukrainskaya Pravda daily cited the committee said as saying. 

The proclamation and referendum plans were thus annulled till the legal base is created, the committee said. The group’s original posting on Facebook has become unavailable. 

*Lugansk, Nikolaev, Dnepropetrovsk* 

On Tuesday, protesters gathered in Lugansk – also outside the regional department of the SBU. Interfax-Ukraine reported that the protesters were setting up barricades and pouring flammable mixtures on them. 

The speakers at the demonstration called for the creation of a parliament of the Lugansk republic, choosing new MPs and establishing a new government. Calls for an independence referendum were also heard. 

On Monday, clashes erupted in the southern Ukrainian city of Nikolaev after at least 300 activists attempted to storm the city administration building. The protesters were also trying to remove the Ukrainian flag from the administration building. Police reportedly used rubber bullets to force the crowd back from the building. 

At least 15 people have been injured, with 11 of them were admitted to hospital, and more than 20 arrested, the city’s Health Department reported. 

After pro-Russian demonstrators expressed their discontent with Kiev authorities in the city of Dnepropetrovsk, the city authorities moved to negotiate with the anti-government activists. 

According to the region’s deputy governor, Boris Filatov, both the “left-wing” and the pro-Russian protesters agreed to refrain from “calls for separatist actions.” In return, the authorities said they will let the activists use some offices in the administrative buildings for their “meetings and work,” as well as provide them with “free access” to local printed media. 

Meanwhile, Russia has called on Kiev and Washington not to ignore the interests of all of Ukraine’s regions, including those in southeastern Ukraine. The Russian Foreign Ministry voiced concerns over the build-up of Ukrainian forces and *US mercenaries in southeastern parts of the country*, calling on Kiev to immediately cease military preparations which could lead to a civil war. 

According to Russian FM Sergey Lavrov, the coup-appointed government in Ukraine has not made any positive steps towards these regions and the people there “fear that their interests are being ignored by Kiev.”


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> So anyone can declare independence from whomever they want?


So, anyone can use force to overthrow an elected government whenever they want???

If the Western Ukrainians can launch an insurgency, violently overthrow an elected government, and trash the Ukrainian Constitution, then the regions of Ukraine should be allowed to decide whether or not they want to go along with such a criminal action and be part of an illegal government.

- Mike


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

I am typing this on my iPad, so here are some brief, scattered thoughts to your post.



> The Western Ukrainians’ core values have nothing to do with European values unless those values reflect fascism and bigotry. During WW II the Western Ukrainians not only fought alongside the Nazis, they served as their concentration camp guards, policemen, and executioners


Again, where does such a large preconceived notion derive from? Of course there are fascist and extremist tendencies evident in the Western bloc of Ukraine, but that can be applied to just about every state in the world. To baselessly state that West Ukraine is nothing more than neo-Nazis and extremist in nature is too simplistic. 





> Regardless, you admit that Western Ukraine revolted, because it didn’t get what it wanted, i.e. a deal with the E.U. If their core values are so much more aligned with Western Europe why did they have a revolution and not wait for 12 months and vote out the government? It sounds like “European values” only come into play when they are convenient for Western Ukraine


Twelve months is an awful long time, but that is beside the point. Study the sociology of radical uprisings, as opposed to institutional uprisings which you are fundamentally condoning and you'll get your answer. The people in Ukraine saw the rejection of the EU deal as Putin exhibiting his influence across Ukraine's political sphere, and basically manipulating the decision. This angered countless people (not to mention the continuous dysfunction in Ukraine's government over the years). A radical uprising was only inevitable, even if it didn't represent the entire population of Ukraine, or even half of it. Those who want to be part of the EU see such an opportunity as a pretext to 'start over' and detach themselves from Russia's presence. 

Take America, for example. Disorder, decline and collapse will happen in the country, most likely after a paradigm shift where the current unipolar framework dissolutes. Should the people of that country wait for an election to change their corrupt government or would turmoil ensue to the degree where protesting, violence and extremism is a necessity? 



> through violent revolution


Why do I feel you use negative connotations with the term 'violent revolution'? There is nothing inherently bad about it. Again, even sociologists agree that radical uprising has shaped history in a more pertinent manner than institutional revolutions. 



> would seem that you are not concerned with what (at minimum) 50% of the Ukrainian population believes and feels.


You're acting as if I am supporting the Ukrainian uprising. I am not. I equally condemn both the West and their inappropriate funding and Putin's annexation of the Crimea. They are both exploiting this crisis to advance their geopolitical agendas. The Ukrainian people are simply pawns on a chess set here. It feels like a proxy country for a Cold War that never ended.



> Also, it's interesting that you see anyone who disagrees with you has having "doltish" and "ludicrous" conclusions.


The way you generalised Western Ukraine and mindlessly blamed this entire event on the West, without taking into account the actions of Russia and Putin warrants such terms in my book.


I'll respond to the rest later. No time now.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> Again, where does such a large preconceived notion derive from? Of course there are fascist and extremist tendencies evident in the Western bloc of Ukraine, but that can be applied to just about every state in the world. *To baselessly state that West Ukraine is nothing more than neo-Nazis and extremist in nature is too simplistic*.
> .


Apparently, you just ignore the history of Western Ukraine and didn't pay attention to the examples that I cited. Maybe, it sounds simplistic, because in this case it is. Western Ukraine has been a historic hotbed of anti-semitism, pogroms, Russophobia, and anti-Polish sentiment way before it became part of the Soviet Union in 1939.

While the xenophobic, bigoted character of the Western Ukrainians existed before WW II, the Nazi occupation of Ukraine brought out the worst in them as I pointed out in the examples in my previous post.

The leopard didn't change its spots and the ultra-nationalist, bigoted mindset has been passed down from the Western Ukrainian nazi collaborators of the 1940s to the present day neo-nazis of Right Sector, Svoboda, and the rest of their ilk.




Despot said:


> Twelve months is an awful long time, but that is beside the point. Study the sociology of radical uprisings, as opposed to institutional uprisings which you are fundamentally condoning and you'll get your answer. The people in Ukraine saw the rejection of the EU deal as Putin exhibiting his influence across Ukraine's political sphere, and basically manipulating the decision. This angered countless people (not to mention the continuous dysfunction in Ukraine's government over the years). A radical uprising was only inevitable, even if it didn't represent the entire population of Ukraine, or even half of it. Those who want to be part of the EU see such an opportunity as a pretext to 'start over' and detach themselves from Russia's presence.
> 
> .



As I understand your post, you consider a democratic election an "*institutional uprising*," and in the case of Ukraine you believe a "*radical uprising*" to be inevitable and apparently, judging by your tone, preferable.

Well, what about the other half of the population that doesn't agree with the "radical uprising?" Aren't they allowed to choose whether or not the want to remain in a country that is controlled by a junta that came to power by force of arms? Around half the country does *not* want to be part of the EU and sees the Customs Union as the best economic alternative for the country.




Despot said:


> Why do I feel you use negative connotations with the term 'violent revolution'? There is nothing inherently bad about it. Again, even sociologists agree that radical uprising has shaped history in a more pertinent manner than institutional revolutions.
> .


I guess there is nothing bad about violent revolution if you don't mind people being killed, wounded, and arrested. 

If the Western Ukrainian controlled junta in Kiev is closer to western Europe in ideology and mindset as you said in a previous post, then how come their actions are more reminiscent of the brownshirts of Nazi Germany??? 

As far as I know, the E.U. western European ideology does not condone violent revolutions. At least on paper they support democratic elections. So does the U.S. (when it suits its agenda).




Despot said:


> The way you generalised Western Ukraine and mindlessly blamed this entire event on the West, without taking into account the actions of Russia and Putin warrants such terms in my book.


In my posts I have been quite specific in my assessment of the Western Ukrainians of the past and present. I have certainly taken into account the actions of Russia in my posts. The problem is that you don't agree with my conclusions so you deem them "mindless."

You can continue insulting me personally all you want. I have no problem with your pompous attitude, because I am getting my message out to thousands of people who are following this thread. And, if I have to take insults from you, Tomas, and a few others it is a small price to pay to get the other side of the story out to the people following this thread.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

> Apparently, you just ignore the history of Western Ukraine and didn't pay attention to the examples that I cited. Maybe, it sounds simplistic, because in this case it is. Western Ukraine has been a historic hotbed of anti-semitism, pogroms, Russophobia, and anti-Polish sentiment way before it became part of the Soviet Union in 1939.


You can cite all the examples you want, but that doesn't give you the right to make - what is still - a broad and vague generalisation. By your logic, I can say that all of Germany is riddled with anti-Semitic, ultra-nationalist extremist Nazis because of the Third Reich some seventy years ago and its modern political and industrial history. Heck, there are areas in my country that are known for their bigotry, Jewish discrimination, and fascist tendencies. Does that give me the intrinsic right to label the entire southeastern bloc of my country as a bunch of neo-Nazis? No. The very same thing can be applied to Western Ukraine. For some reason, you won't accept this, and I have no idea why. 



> The leopard didn't change its spots and the ultra-nationalist, bigoted mindset has been passed down from the Western Ukrainian nazi collaborators of the 1940s to the present day neo-nazis of Right Sector, Svoboda, and the rest of their ilk.


I'm curious here. What percentage of Western Ukrainians, by approximation, are "ultra-nationalist, bigoted neo-Nazis" in your opinion? Again, this type of posting is arrantly generalist in nature, and detrimental to any noteworthy points you may possibly make. 



> As I understand your post, you consider a democratic election an "institutional uprising," and in the case of Ukraine you believe a "radical uprising" to be inevitable and apparently, judging by your tone, preferable.


I'd recommend doing some scholarly reading into the defects and problems of institutional uprisings. I could recommend you some articles if you like. Yes, by definition, they are democratic and, to a lesser degree, self-determining in nature, although the central problem surrounding institutional uprisings is the possibilities of corruption and fraudulence is much higher. Look at all of the instrumental and consequential uprisings in history, whether it be American, French or Cuban. They are _radical_ in nature, and needed to be so. Going down the path of institutionalism means you are still gliding your way through bureaucratic and administer variables, and therein lies the problem. 



> Well, what about the other half of the population that doesn't agree with the "radical uprising?" Aren't they allowed to choose whether or not the want to remain in a country that is controlled by a junta that came to power by force of arms? Around half the country does not want to be part of the EU and sees the Customs Union as the best economic alternative for the country


Again, this post gives the implication that I support what is happening in Ukraine. I don't. I am neutral on this. As I have said, I condemn both the West and Putin equally, as both are exploiting this *DOMESTIC* crisis to advance their own geopolitical agendas. My only solution would be this - divide the Ukraine into two or else a civil war will ensue. The West can align themselves with Europe and be part of the EU, and the East, which is almost culturally and ideologically indistinguishable from Russia, can side with Putin's state. This is what I want but neither side are interested in this resolution. The West want this uprising to seize the entirety of Ukraine, and Putin does not want any portions of the state to be pro-Western in nature as it'd prove inimical to his interests in the region. 



> I guess there is nothing bad about violent revolution if you don't mind people being killed, wounded, and arrested.


History is built on radical uprising. It's sad, but it is indisputable. The former Ukrainian government was immeasurably venal. And sometimes (actually, most of the time) a violent, sweeping out dissent and demonstration is needed because it breaks order, fragments the system, and completely obliterates the state, if only for a short time.



> then how come their actions are more reminiscent of the brownshirts of Nazi Germany???


Why are you intentionally overlooking the innumerous amount protesters who have no agenda here? That are apart of no neo-Nazi, far right group? The ordinary citizens? You are just focusing on what the media (namely, RT and other alternative journalism) is feeding you. What you don't see by any major media outlet is the vast array of protestors in Western Ukraine that are apart of this uprising but don't have any far-right tendencies. But no, you just seem to be focusing on the fascist elements which is absolutely evident, I can agree with that, but certainly does not comprise the entire insurrection. Again, too simple. 



> As far as I know, the E.U. western European ideology does not condone violent revolutions


_No_ country supports violent revolutions. The thing about radical uprisings is that they are just that - radical. They fragment the system, generate disorder, and basically impair a country. In the future once a paradigm shift occurs and the unipolar framework dissolutes, America will being much more suppressive and turbulent. Things will change and often the only way to escape nefarious government is to retaliate radically because institutionally simply does not work, especially when a society is more industrialised, urbanised and technologically intricate/advanced (i.e., most of the developed nations today). 

Let's say I was American and I was sick of my government. Not just sick of the elected party but all of the other candidates that have essentially monopolised the political landscape. Let's say I wanted to abolish the entire American political system. One can not do this institutionally since it operates in a framework of laws and restraints. If I want to do this and I then convince the rest of my countrymen to join me, we will have to radicalise. Waiting for an election or asking for a bill to be passed is meaningless and futile. 



> In my posts I have been quite specific in my assessment of the Western Ukrainians of the past and present. I have certainly taken into account the actions of Russia in my posts. The problem is that you don't agree with my conclusions so you deem them "mindless."


Your generalisations are irking, if I can be perfectly candid with you. As I said, various places in the world have areas that are riddled with neo-Nazism, bigotry, discrimination, and racism. But that doesn't give me the congenital right to label that entire area, completely discarding all of the innocent and customary citizens in the process, as a bunch of Nazis. A lot of Russia has a history of xenophobia, anti-Semitism, and even homophobia, but I know better than to label certain Russian regions as 'Nazis'. That is too simplistic. I can cite various examples like you can, but that doesn't make my assertion anymore right because it is still too generalised. In order for your contention to be accurate, then it'd have to be a state regime of some sorts where _all_ the citizens were as you described or were forced to be. The thing is, in Western Ukraine, that isn't the case.


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## SovietWrestler (May 30, 2012)

Holodomor?? It's capitalist propaganda, the only Holodomor was in capitalism:


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

SovietWrestler said:


> Holodomor?? It's capitalist propaganda, the only Holodomor was in capitalism:


You're against capitalism. 

Okay, good. 

What do you propose as the most viable socioeconomic and governmental system? Hopefully it's not that devilish and iniquitous system called "communism" or something.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*Fascist stronghold of Lviv rocked by anti-government demonstrations*
8 April 2014, 23:04

In Ukraine's Lvov protesters storm Office of Public Prosecutor – local media

In Lvov the protests demanding the resignation of an a public prosecutor appointed by Kiev ended up with protestors storming his building, Itar-Tass reports *quoting the local media*.

"Several dozen of activists stormed the building, the law enforcers could not stop them," it says in a statement. As it turned out, the activists "were trying to meet with the newly appointed prosecutor Vladimir Gural" who was not at his workplace.

These kinds of demonstrations against Gural are not happening for the first time. Thus, the presentation ceremony of the appointed by Kiev authorities new prosecutor was also thwarted by civic activists, accusing the latter of bribery and abuse of his office position.

Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_...storm-Office-of-Public-Prosecutor-media-4953/


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

'Presence of foreign mercenaries in Ukraine shows weakness of Kiev govt'

Published time: April 09, 2014 09:11 

*The Kiev government is having trouble holding power even in western Ukraine, where it should have firm control. Meanwhile it’s bringing in mercenaries to retake eastern areas, anti-war activist Daniel Patrick Welch told RT*.

RT: With those latest events in Lvov, could it be that the interim government is losing support there? 

*Daniel Patrick Welch*: I think the junta [in Kiev] is holding on to power very tentatively, although *the people who took over the Lvov prosecutor's office seem to be fascists as well*, that’s what people in Kharkov and Donetsk are telling me. *They see it more as an inter-fascist squabble*. But the important thing that you can see from it is that they are having trouble holding power even in the West where they should have firm control. 

RT: The protesters in Kiev were calling the former government corrupt. But now we see the new authorities appointing officials with questionable reputations. Why are they making such moves? 

*DW*: They are simply trying to hold power. And I think they are losing legitimacy at an alarming rate for them. The point of Maidan was against corruption but it also had the element of a foreign intervention, as we know from Victoria Nuland’s involvement in the famous EU phone call. So what’s happening in the east is significantly different from that. 








[/URL][/IMG]
_The people of Donetsk region stand up to the fascist Kiev junta and the Maidan Mob_.

RT: Let's take a look at Eastern Ukraine now... The authorities have called the recent crackdown on anti-Kiev activists in Kharkov an ‘anti-terrorist’ operation. What does that harsh rhetoric mean? 

*DW*: *They always use ‘terrorists’ when they want to demonize the people*. These are Ukrainians who do not like to be ruled by fascists from Kiev and they are rising up because they are awake and they see who their enemy is, and they are not going to back down. The use of the word [terrorist] is always a political trick. 

RT: *When the protesters in Kiev were occupying government buildings there, they were praised as champions of democracy. But when the same happens in the East and South of the country dozens end up arrested and facing jail terms*. Why such a distinction? 

*DW*: *What we are seeing is the immense hypocrisy involved not just from the Kiev coup [government], but from the West in general*. There have been no denunciations of the violence which took place last night and which is probably taking place right now in Donetsk as we speak. People inside the administration building waiting for storm and they have barricaded themselves in. *They really are heroes of democracy, they are standing up for their rights and their own people*, and they are being defended by their own people. *The fact that you bring in people from outside, including possibly the foreign mercenaries, shows that you are not even confident of your own position let alone trying to retake control of these areas*. 








[/URL][/IMG]
_In Donetsk Ukrainian patriots dig in and await the storm by Western Ukrainian "National Guardsmen" and their foreign mercenary thugs_.


RT: So what did Maidan achieve, with so many people voicing their discontent across the country? 

*DW*: It’s hard to see now, isn’t it? *The point of it was to establish a NATO beachhead in Ukraine*. And I think obviously that this is a catastrophic failure for the West and I see it as further unraveling. I think it’s a massive historic mistake on a part of the US meddling, and NATO, and there will be repercussions for years to come. 

RT:Russia says it has evidence that US private security firm contractors are operating in Ukraine. What could that involvement mean? 

*DW*: I think it’s definitely is true. I’m getting reports of 300 mercenaries from Greystone Ltd. in Donetsk and 100 in Lugansk. It’s extremely significant and dangerous development and *it shows that the provocation is from the West*, that Lavrov and the others have said “Russia is not the one who destabilizes Ukraine,” they are essentially correct. I think it will backfire. *When you have to have foreign mercenaries to do dirty work, you are not a legitimate government*. 

_The statements, views and opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of RT_.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*AMERICAN MERCS IN UKRAINE TO DO THEIR DIRTY WORK*





PART I

FORMER US CONGRESSMAN DENNIS JOHN KUCINICH SHARES HIS VIEWS ON UKRAINE

MOSCOW, April 9 (RIA Novosti) – In an interview with RIA Novosti, *veteran US politician Dennis John Kucinich – who twice ran for president and served in the US Congress for 16 years – shared his vision of the role that NATO and its member states play in political crises of global significance, including the ongoing unrest in Ukraine and the civil war in Syria.*

*RIA*: First of all I'd suggest discussing recent events in eastern Ukraine. Crowds of pro-Russian demonstrators stormed government buildings Sunday in two major cities of the region. Is it fair to say that this is the people's reaction to the coup in Kiev?

*KUCINICH*: *First of all everyone knows the junta in Kiev was installed by a coup and that you have nationalists, neo-Nazis who came to power as a result of that coup*. One of the first things that happened was linguistic rights were attacked. And the population which had used the Russian language was suddenly aware the Russian language was under attack. And this of course created a backlash.

You know, when you have a country where so many people have Russian as their first language, this was something that threw a lot of fear into people. And who is going to protect the rights of people to be able to assert their cultural identity? That's really the question here. *And that's why the people in Crimea voted not just to be formally considered part of the republic, but they also voted to protect their cultural identity*. Because that was one of the things that was under attack. 

But there is a much larger question here. As we speak, you have *NATO training Right Sector*. Now they are being brought into the military and trained with heavy weapons, and this can only be to engage in very violent military confrontation. This is very bad. And what is ominous is that *we are speaking about neo-Nazis*. 



*RIA*: Why does the US not pay enough attention to the new Ukrainian government's close ties with radical groups?

*KICINICH*: *I think that there is a lack of understanding in the United States of the significance of the neo-Nazis coming to power*. Because anyone who is familiar with the history of World War II knows that Russia lost 30 million people. Anyone who is familiar with the battle of Moscow knows that two million people put their lives on the line to defend the city. And the memorial which is on the road from Sheremetyevo into Moscow of those tank barriers serve as a grim reminder of the millions of Russians who put their lives on the line to defend the city and the country against Nazis.

*Russians did not give their lives so that 70 years later neo-Nazis could come to power, who were trained by NATO to attempt to camp out on the Russian border in Ukraine*. That's simply not acceptable. And this lack of historical understanding is at the center of the inability to understand Russia's response to these recent events. 

I pointed out as you’ve probably read, I was one of the first people in the West who actually dissected the so-called trade agreement that Yanukovych was being forced to sign. And I pointed out that *it was actually a military agreement masked as a trade agreement that enabled NATO to go to the Russian border*. And this of course has been NATO's dream, its justification for its existence. The only problem is that it's historically out of context. *NATO doesn't really have a legitimate reason for a continued existence. So they are trying to create one by participating in this series of events which have captured the entire world's attention*.

But people have to understand that what we are seeing here goes back to World War II and that for some people connected to NATO World War II is not over. *Look at the people who were running NATO military operations in 1961 and their own connections to the Nazis*. You have to ask yourself what's going on.

Some people think that this is just a continuation of the Cold war. *No. This is a continuation of a hot war, of one of the worst tragedies the world had ever seen: World War II*. There was a general who was, if I remember correctly, who was a Nazi chief of land forces that carried out operation Barbarossa and *he ended up as a military chief of NATO appointed in April of 1961*.

So when you look at this, for certain NATO elements, World War II never ended. *When you have openly pro-Nazis who are rising in power, who are being given participation in a national army, Russia has every right to be concerned*. And the US, our leaders, need to bone up on our history to understand what is at stake here. This whole conflict is not necessary.

And you know, there are many other elements to it, there are other outcomes that deal with trade, energy markets, currency. *But the key to understanding this is to understand the suffering of the Russian people and the Ukrainian people at the hands of the Nazis in WWII*.

And this whole exercise – which has been dressed as an attempt to give the people of Ukraine benefits of association with the European community – is in no way going to benefit the people of Ukraine, even given the trade agreement that Yanukovych rejected. There were no guarantees for the Ukrainian people of being able to get jobs in the EU. *It's very clear the EU doesn't want Ukraine*. The economy of Ukraine is in shambles. *Not because of Russia but because of kleptocrats who have taken advantage of the people of Ukraine*. You know – having high office there is like a license to steal.



*RIA*: Do you believe that the United States government was funding some of the violent rebel groups in Ukraine who overran the country?

*KUCINICH*: What we know is this. It's on the record that the US sent $5 billion to help various groups in Ukraine. We know that USAID resources were involved. We know that the National Endowment for Democracy, which was involved in so many orange revolutions, was involved in these efforts.

Do we know that any of that money went to Right sector? I don't know. *But try to imagine when billions of dollars are pouring into the streets, that this money does not end up in the hands of people who are violent*.

The people in Ukraine had legitimate grievances against their government. And many people were sincere. The unemployment, low wages, the conditions in Ukraine have been very bad for people. So of course they are going to go and gather in a place where historically Ukrainians had come together to express their concern about what's going on in their country.

But what’s happening now is that *these violent neo-Nazis effectively surfed that moment and used it to gain control of a number of seats in the cabinet, including those which are very security sensitive*. So of course Russia would be concerned about that. Every country has its own interest.

And US policy which is guided by military, and by energy interest, and economic interest is sometimes just plain wrong. And this is an example. I don't think that President Obama is looking for any kind of military showdown with Russia. *I do think that NATO is trying to justify its existence*.

You know NATO's last big exercise was in Libya, which was a total disaster. What's NATO about? The North Atlantic is not on the Russian border, not on the Chinese border. And that's what we come to – *NATO is an anachronism*.

*And because it's an anachronism it is trying to see how it can justify its existence by interposing itself in a conflict and stirring it up*. Otherwise it wouldn't be training Right sector troops right now or bringing them into the military. This idea that somehow Kiev, and Washington, and NATO are going to tame Right sector is a myth. That is not happening.



*RIA*: There is a split between the new Ukrainian government and some radical groups. Is it possible to provide weapons for Ukraine under these circumstances?

*KUCINICH*: I disagree with my friend Senator McCain. Because *as we speak, Right Sector is getting access to heavy weaponry through NATO and being trained*. That's very dangerous. And the government in Kiev, *the junta rather in Kiev, has the idea that they are going to bring the Right Sector to work in the National guard on domestic matters, to bring them into the Ukrainian military*.

But they are talking about the most violent people who helped to precipitate street violence. It again brings up a spectrum of things that came out of Nazi Germany and World War II. We need to be very careful not to continue to inflame this crisis because *Russian-speaking people, particularly those in east, see the rise of neo-Nazis and feel a threat to their cultural identity*.



*RIA*: How would you comment on Kiev's cooperation with foreign private security firms, such as Greystone? 

*KUCINICH*: We saw in Iraq how private security forces can get out of control. Whenever you are in a politically sensitive, a militarily sensitive situation, *the last thing you want is private security out there*, because they can actually profit by an expanded conflict.

They can stir up a war and then profit from it. And then they can leave and take their money with them. *I'm totally opposed to private armies being involved in any actions anywhere*. If oligarchs want to hire people to protect them, they have a right to do that.

But if nations bring in private armies you are looking at combustible material here because there is no control. *The private armies will pursue private interests*. Which is what they do, because they are private. *They don't care about anything except making more money*. And *the more war there is, the more money they make*. And when they walk away from carnage and all the dead bodies of people whose homes and lives have been destroyed, they go right to the bank. That's not acceptable.



*RIA*: Does Washington have any influence over them? Does the administration realize that these companies' actions can trigger a civil war?

*KUCINICH*: It can set terms that establish that the armies will not receive any aid in any Western organization. They can set these terms. You know the only money that Ukraine is getting right now is from the IMF. Who is paying these private armies? And the IMF of course is going to make life even more miserable for the people of Ukraine. So you should ask who is paying these private armies. *I don't know yet, but if it’s somebody in the West, that's a provocation. There is no control. And provocation leads to escalation*.



*RIA*: Is it in the interest of the United States to impose further sanctions on Russia? Can Obama find any compromise or will it be hard for him to withstand the pressure of neoconservative groups?

*KUCINICH*: Well, I think we first have to say that sanctions are counterproductive. *Russia is going to defend itself against neo-Nazis no matter what kind of sanctions Washington puts up*. And in addition to that, Russia has already demonstrated a willingness to firm up other alliances, with China for example, and move to establish new energy markets.



*RIA*: How do you assess US media coverage of the crisis? Why has US media not paid attention to claims the opposition was behind sniper fire in Kiev?

*KUCINICH*: First of all it's generally accepted that people who stir things up can be found in the escalation of any crisis. This is how out-groups become in-groups, how they come to power. And the fact that there wasn't a thorough investigation of the fact that police and demonstrators have been shot – it's astonishing that it hasn't been pursued what's happened.

*And a prevailing approach in the US has been to feed a narrative that ignored the fact that a coup took place, that ignored the fact that neo-Nazis came to power, that ignored the fact that there was evidence that people were shooting both police and demonstrators at the same time in order to stir up a conflict in Kiev*. Because the focus is on a cartoon version of events which feed old Cold War narratives, which should have been discarded when the War came down.

*SEE CONCLUSION IN NEXT POST*


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

PART II

FORMER US CONGRESSMAN DENNIS JOHN KUCINICH SHARES HIS VIEWS ON UKRAINE

*RIA*:Was it Washington’s ultimate goal to replace Yanukovych when the situation got out of control?

*KUCINICH*: *A State Department official was caught on tape before the coup stating exactly who would be put in power*. How did that happen? It was already decided that Yanukovych was going to be out. *It was decided when he refused to sign a six-thousand-page agreement that did not benefit Ukraine, that put NATO on Russia's border*.

And that essentially was the end of the attempt of the Ukrainian people to have any kind of neutrality on these issues. Then you end up with Yatsenyuk, but even he has been careful about how far he can go. There will be an election. But no matter what the election brings, the fact that you have Ukraine being a staging ground for a contest between interests – *that was precipitated by the West *– you have to understand that the last people who can benefit from it are the people of Ukraine.

And this is a tragedy. One that was preventable. And one that does not have to escalate. Because I don't think that the Obama administration really wants to escalate this. And *the people who are pushing for escalation in this country are the same people who took us into Iraq, who took us into Afghanistan and into Libya, all disasters that have to a great extent hurt the American people*.

We need to rebuild, we need to make an effort to rebuild our relationship with Russia. We need a better understanding of the people of Russia and of their history. We need to stop playing Cold War games. *And we need to treat each other with respect and stop the rhetoric which is designed to humiliate people*.



*RIA*: Why does Europe, remembering the atrocities of World War II, support radical groups? Why does it support sanctions which can damage its own economy?

*KUCINICH*: There is a combination of things going on here. *One is that the US has been pushing. NATO has had a great influence*. If you look at the member nations it coincides closely with the EU. So you have some of the same interest groups who are involved.

But I think that European leaders as NATO escalates have to be very concerned that ultimately their interests are going to be affected. If this crisis continues to escalate, it will have an impact on every single country in the European Union. And not just in terms of damage to the economy, but in higher prices – creating security problems which did not have to happen.

We need to expect that our political leadership will come to an understanding that we can no longer participate in the power politics of old. Look, Russia and the US have painstakingly built a friendship after experiencing a period of mistrust and potential for conflict.

We've forgotten the Cuban missile crisis? I haven't forgotten how as a child I and other children were sent to drills which we called “duck and cover” because we were taught that there was going to be a nuclear attack on America from Russia…

We have to find a way to reestablish a strong relationship, and the only way you can do it is through respect, knowing the strength that each country has in order to understand that we should not be about one country trying to dominate another.



*RIA*: And what is the main obstacle?

*KUCINICH*: *NATO. It's an anachronistic nightmare. It really ought to be disbanded. It has become a protection racket. That what the mafia did in the US in the 1930s*.



RIA:Would you comment on the report that Turkey could be involved in using chemical weapons in Syria to provoke a US strike?

*KUCINICH*: *I think once President Obama established the red line every provocateur who wanted the US in was given an incentive to do so*.

There is no question that the US was being set up and I think that President Obama finally realized that. And that's why he decided not to go forward. And where this came from we don't know yet. I saw Mr. Hersh's article in the London Review of Books. And it's worth reading. And it's worth considering.

But look, how many countries began to play in Syria, began to send jihadists into Syria. And why? There is a geopolitical case here. That Russia with its base in Syria... and Russia helped to bring the world away from the brink of a conflict over Syria, Russia which has a role with Iran, that Russia has somehow been made to pay the price by the neocons whose efforts to stir up a war in Syria were deflected by Russian involvement and diplomacy.

But who was trying to set it up? Maybe Turkey was involved. I don't know that. But it's worth considering that other nations' interest come to play and this is old thinking. We have to stop pretending that anyone is going to build an empire any more. No one can afford it. That's the bottom line. People have enough trouble managing their own affairs. *The USSR is not going to be reconstructed. The British Empire is not going to be reconstructed. And frankly we are learning in the US the cost of empire building. We can't afford it any more*. This is a time for diplomacy and a time for de-escalation.

This is also a time for understanding history. Because *Crimea was not the Sudetenland. The Russian troops were already in Sevastopol. And they were there because of a treaty. We have to understand history here.
*
When I took my first trip to Russia 30 years ago and I went down the road between airport and the city I saw those tank barriers set up there as a memorial. That's a lesson. *We must not forget the suffering of the Russian people and the Ukrainian people, we must not forget the role that the Nazis played trying to crush Russia. This was Hitler's plan and he did not succeed*.

And it was the US and Russia which ultimately stopped Hitler's plan from being realized. We don't forget the price that Americans paid. And we don't forget the price that Russians paid. *And it's absolutely wrong for anybody connected with America to in any way, shape or form help neo-Nazis to come to power so that they can be aggressive against Russia*. In America we believe in freedom and we cannot let these people, who want to destroy freedom, gain as a result of some geopolitical game.



*RIA*: The Office of Inspector General has identified significant vulnerabilities in the management of contract file documentation that could expose the State Department to substantial financial losses. In your opinion, is it just a bureaucratic issue or could it be evidence of corruption?

*KUCINICH*: Any time money is missing in the government it goes somewhere; it goes into somebody's hands. No one is maintaining this is an accounting problem. It's a problem of accountability. The question is whose hands does it go into. What purpose has it been used for. That's the question. And that has not been determined yet. As a member of Congress I saw many occasions in which billions of dollars had not been accounted for.

When you have a nation that is spending trillions, a billion might not seem like a lot of money, but it is a lot of money. *And when the State Department cannot account for money, we have to ask for what purpose it was directed*.

Any time you are responsible for billions of dollars you have to say where the money is going. And when it disappears it's a huge problem. I mean – was it stolen, was it misappropriated, was it misdirected?

The American people are already paying too much in taxes. And every taxpayer has to be concerned about this. People are taxed heavily and when they see that kind of money disappear they become alarmed, they have every reason to be upset. We are cutting back a number of programs for social welfare and at the same time billions of dollars can disappear from the State Department account. Unbelievable!



*RIA*: What can the US and Russia do to overcome disagreements and improve relations?

*KUCINICH*: As a member of Congress I traveled to Russia many times to meet with officials and to try to develop relationships, I worked with the Russian and American Chamber of Commerce to try to find ways in increasing commercial exchanges. I worked to build relationships and friendship.

And when I look at this I'm very concerned about relationships here which have been destroyed. We don't need to idealize each other. Each nation has its own challenges and own problems. *But there needs to be respect and that's been lost*. And that's a problem.

I'm continuing to write about this, to speak out whenever I have an opportunity, because *what I see happening here is a totally unnecessary escalation of a conflict in which there will be no winners*. We have to go back to working diplomatically.

I think it's very important to talk to you. *I've served 16 years in the US Congress, I ran for the Democratic nomination on two occasions and I've been a very vocal supporter of diplomacy and of “strength through peace” and I continue to do so*.

Hopefully this period is not going to escalate, but it's dangerous. *People in Russia need to understand that there are some people in the US who know exactly what's going on, so that they know that not everybody here is just getting swept up in propaganda*. I believe very strongly in the importance of a good relationship between Russia and the US.

_Dennis John Kucinich is a former U.S. Representative from Ohio, serving from 1997 to 2013. He was also a candidate for the Democratic nomination for President of the United States in the 2004 and 2008 presidential elections_.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Bakto,

Just in case you don't know, I replied to your previous post.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> Bakto,
> 
> Just in case you don't know, I replied to your previous post.


I answered one of your replies in post #779 on page #78. At this point everyone is pretty much aware of our positions so it's just getting redundant. But, check out the RIA Novosti interview with Congressman Kucinich who appears to agree with my position on a number of points, including Western Ukrainian neo-Nazism. I'm sure that you will find him "mindless" and his opinions "ludicrous." 

- Mike


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> I answered one of your replies in post #779 on page #78. At this point everyone is pretty much aware of our positions so it's just getting redundant. But, check out the RIA Novosti interview with Congressman Kucinich who appears to agree with my position on a number of points, including Western Ukrainian neo-Nazism. I'm sure that you will find him "mindless" and his opinions "ludicrous."
> 
> - Mike


Actually, my reply was post #779, but okay then. 

I personally think 'taking sides' in this conflict is facile. I can grasp both viewpoints, but to say one is unerring and the other incorrect feels too overly-simplistic.

If people want to discuss "engineered" protests, then perhaps the recent pro-Russian forces in Eastern Ukraine could fit that bill. Putin is currently in a predicament. This current pro-Western government in Ukraine isn't going anyhwere, especially after the US gave $1 billion in economic aid to the coup, and it has heavy backing from the EU. 

Putin understands that it is only a matter of time before NATO continues their expansionist movement and essentially positions themselves on Russia's doorstep. If this happens, it'd be largely detrimental to Russia's regional strength and geopolitical interests. This is no doubt the Kremlin have been pondering how they can seize Eastern Ukraine in the framework of international law, so they can have a 'shield' from NATO and Europe. 

Putin is looking for pretext. It is pretty obvious. He does not want NATO on the Ukrainian/Russian border. He does not want NATO anywhere near their naval fleet on the Black Sea peninsula. He wants Eastern Ukraine. And considering the traditionally large ethnic Russian inhabitaints, it is not an inherently bad idea.

It seems to me that Putin had a hand in engineering these pro-Russian forces as a pretext to 'understandably' invade Eastern Ukraine, seize the land, and protect itself from Western suppression. Putin saying "Russia has the reserved right to protect ethnic Russians in Ukraine" or something seamlessly glides into that notion, as well. 

So I personally believe Putin has had an incremental role in magnifying or aggrandising these protests as a pretext to take Eastern Ukraine. And I can see why. Do I agree with it? Absolutely not. But he wants the Eastern bloc as a shield to protect itself from NATO presence, and considering its expansive tendencies, you really can see the political logic in it.

Then again, I have no evidence, so it is pure conjecture at this point, much like the notion that the US intricately planned the uprising in Ukraine. Still, from a geopolitical standpoint, it is perfectly rational. I don't think any Russian President or leader would want NATO on their doorstep and across the Black Sea. Putin would absolutely and unreservedly go to these lengths to protect his interests. 

Because let's be frank here - Putin is no saint. Far from it, actually. No world leader is a 'good' person. They all have despotic tendencies and they all have an agenda which benefits the few at the expense of many.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*THIS VIDEO CLEARLY DEMONSTRATES WHO IS RUNNING THE SHOW IN KIEV!*






Pyotr Simonenko, Chairman of the Communist Party Ukraine, is shoved off the podium in the Verhovna Rada (Supreme Parliament) in Kiev by Western Ukrainian neo-Nazi thugs. Simonenko blames the ultra-nationalists for the events of the last few months and is attacked on stage as soon as the neo-Nazis realize what he is saying.

This is not an isolated incident. Anyone who voices a negative opinion about the junta ine Kiev and the ultra-nationalists running the country is silenced immediately. Is it any wonder the eastern and southern regions want out???

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Communists versus nazis. There's something new


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Communists versus nazis. There's something new


First they came for the Communists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Communist. 

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-- 
Because I was not a Trade Unionist. 

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-- 
Because I was not a Jew. 

Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me. 

*Martin Niemöller* (1892-1984)
Lutheran Pastor who spent 7 years in a Nazi concentration camp for speaking out against Adolph Hitler and Fascism.

In fact, the German Nazi Party came after the Communists first and they were interned in concentration camps before the Jews. 

The present day neo-Nazis of the junta ruling Kiev gave the honor of being the first to be attacked to the Party of Regions. Communists came in second. Russians and Jews will be next as the neo-Nazis consolidate their forces and get more weapons from NATO.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

NEO-NAZIS BURN DOWN THE HEADQUARTERS OF THE COMMUNIST PARTY UKRAINE IN KIEV








[/URL][/IMG]

My apologies for using as my source the KPRF website - no western news outlet is carrying this story. So, let's fill a void in Western news reporting and I will translate part of the article (below the original text). - Mike

*Атаки против коммунизма – первый признак наступления фашизма!* 

Заявление Президиума ЦК КПРФ

Пресс-служба ЦК КПРФ 
2014-04-10 18:02 

Коммунистическая партия Российской Федерации выражает глубокую обеспокоенность драматическим развитием обстановки в братской Украине. По сообщениям СМИ, 9 апреля вечером неизвестные подожгли помещение Коммунистической партии Украины (КПУ) в Киеве, которое было захвачено бандеровцами еще в конце февраля и в котором затем расположились «люстрационный комитет» и «канцелярская сотня Майдана». 

Это произошло после того, как правоохранительные органы объявили экстремистам, что они по решению суда должны освободить это здание. В результате пожара в штаб-квартире КПУ выгорело 220 кв. метров. Данный инцидент свидетельствует об общей атмосфере хаоса, насилия и беззакония на Украине.

*Attacks against Communism - The first sign of the onset of Fascism!*
Statement of the Presidium of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation

Press Service of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Russia Federation

April 10, 2014 6:02 PM

The Communist Party of the Russian Federation expresses its deep concern with the dramatic development of the situation in brotherly Ukraine. According to reports of the means of mass information, on the evening of April 9th unknown persons burned down the offices of the Communist Party Ukraine in Kiev, which had been seized by Banderovtsi (_neo-Nazis - Mike_) back in February and since then had been used by the Maidan Mob as a clerical facility. 

This occurred after law enforcement agencies informed the extremists that they had to vacate the premises as per a judicial order. As a result of the fire 220 square meters of the headquarters of the Communist Party Ukraine were burned up. This incident demonstrates the general atmosphere of chaos, force, and lawlessness in Ukraine.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Putin threatens to cut gas to Europe over Ukraine debt



> President Vladimir Putin has told European leaders a dispute over Ukraine's gas debt to Russia could affect supplies of Russian gas to Europe and proposed urgent discussions on the matter, his spokesman said on Thursday.
> 
> The remarks were the strongest sign yet that Russia could curtail supplies of gas to Ukraine, which could increase tension between Moscow and Kiev and aggravate the worst crisis in East-West ties since the Cold War.
> 
> ...


Source



Fear-mongering 101 here from Putin. He would never cut gas to Europe since Russia's economy is primarily dependant on its natural resources, and Europe is its biggest customer. Shutting off gas would be largely detrimental to their economical health, even if it is for a short while. Then again, it _is_ Putin, and he _did_ annex the Crimea, despite warnings from NATO and the West. Perhaps he would do it, but it's dubious at this stage. 

Regardless, it is a shame to see Russia becoming increasingly isolated in the international community. Many predict an economically substandard year for the Federation, but that depends on how proficient the sanctions are and work. 

I expected Putin to play this card sooner or later. I doubt Europe are taking it seriously.


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)




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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> Regardless, it is a shame to see Russia becoming increasingly isolated in the international community. .


*international community = U.S. & NATO allies*

In fact, the U.S./Western rhetoric about the "international community" means the U.S. and NATO. China, India, and others are part of the "international community" and have not exhibited a desire to isolate Russia. Not everyone dances to Washington's tune.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Al Borland said:


>


Those on this list who supported the insurgency in Kiev should be behind the people of Donetsk and eastern/southern Ukraine who are fighting for their right of self-determination and desire to secede from a country led by a junta that overthrew the elected government by force.

Either you support the concept of "self-determination," or you just support the junta and Maidan Mob with "self-determination" being a convenient slogan to cover your true allegiance. 

- Mike

ДА ЗДРАВСТВУЕТ СВОБОДНАЯ ДОНЕЦКАЯ РЕСПУБЛИКА!


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*UKRAINE'S MILITARY ELITE APHA UNIT REFUSES ORDERS TO STORM BUILDINGS HELD BY DONETSK SEPARATISTS / POLICE REFUSE TO TAKE PART IN ATTACK ON FREEDOM FIGHTERS!*

Kiev backpedals on referendums after deadline to stop protest expires

Published time: April 11, 2014 09:52 

*Just after a deadline set by Kiev for protesters in eastern Ukraine to vacate seized buildings expired, Parliament-appointed PM Arseny Yatsenyuk pledged to push through a law allowing regional referendums in the country*.

Holding referendums on the status of their respective regions was among the main demands posed by anti-Maidan activists, who have taken over a number of governmental buildings in eastern Ukraine this week. 

Ukrainian law currently does not allow regions to hold referendums separately from the rest of the country. It was one of the main arguments Kiev voiced in declaring illegal last month’s referendum in Crimea, which ended with the peninsula’s seceding from Ukraine and joining Russia. 

Speaking in Donetsk, one of the regions engulfed by the anti-Kiev protests, Yatsenyuk said his government wants greater autonomy for Ukrainian regions, including the abolition of the offices of capital-appointed governors. 

*He was speaking just as a 48-hour deadline, which Kiev gave to protesters to vacate the seized buildings, expired*. Previously the central authorities threatened to use force, including that of the military and even threatened their opponents as terrorists, unless they withdrew from the buildings. 

*The U-turn comes after Ukraine’s elite Alpha unit reportedly refused to obey an order to storm protester-held buildings*. At a session of law enforcement officials in Donetsk, one of the Alpha commanders said that he and his men are a force intended for rescuing hostages and fighting terrorism and will only act in accordance with the law, local media reported. 

The unconfirmed act of defiance comes days after the siege by police of a protesters-seized building in Kharkov, which ended with dozens of activists being arrested. *On Thursday, a local police lieutenant-colonel spoke to the media, claiming that he and other officers had been deceived by the Kiev authorities*. He claimed that they were sent to take over the building under the pretext that it was held by dangerous armed bandits. In fact the protesters had only improvised clubs and offered no resistance to the storming troops. 

The officer, Andrey Chuikov, said he would no longer take “criminal” orders and announced his resignation from the police, adding that he would be sacked anyway by his superiors for speaking to the press. 

Discontent with the new authorities in Kiev, which has been brewing in eastern and southern Ukraine for weeks, escalated on Monday, as protesters in several cities started to take over governmental buildings. *Protests took place in the cities of Donetsk, Kharkov and Lugansk, while smaller protest actions and some clashes were reported in Odessa and Nikolayev*. 

Donetsk activists remain in control of the regional administration building and have built three lines of barricades to defend themselves from a possible attack. *They have declared the Donetsk region, which is home to about one-tenth of the population of Ukraine, a “people’s republic”* and have demanded a referendum on its future status. *They also declared forming a “people’s army” in response to threats from violence form Kiev*. 

Negotiations between the activists and the Kiev-appointed authorities of the region were held on Thursday and into Friday morning. They are trying to hammer out a deal to deescalate the tension, which includes some sort of joint patrols formed by police and the activists of Donetsk and a possible relocation of the protesters to a nearby building. 

*In Lugansk, activists are maintaining their hold on a Ukrainian Security Service office*. They also cordoned off a base of the Interior Ministry’s troops on Thursday night, saying this would prevent their deployment for a crackdown on the protest, although later the blockade was lifted. 

Meanwhile, in Kharkov, where police on Tuesday captured a regional administration building and took more than 50 activists into custody, the protests do not seem to be calming down. On Thursday evening several hundred people picketed the building, despite a court ban on doing so. *A mass protest rally is scheduled for Sunday. 
*


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> *international community = U.S. & NATO allies*
> 
> In fact, the U.S./Western rhetoric about the "international community" means the U.S. and NATO. China, India, and others are part of the "international community" and have not exhibited a desire to isolate Russia. Not everyone dances to Washington's tune.
> 
> - Mike


China and India have remained relatively neutral on this, actually, and have by no means greatly defended or displayed unabridged support for Russia's annexation of the Crimea.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> China and India have remained relatively neutral on this, actually, and have by no means greatly defended or displayed unabridged support for Russia's annexation of the Crimea.


On the other hand, they have not criticized Russia, nor have they voted against Russia in the U.N. And, they have *NOT* by any stretch of the imagination supported the US/EU position on Ukraine. 

India has had excellent relations with Russia since Soviet times. But, in my opinion, equally important is the fear that the US regime change operations against democratically elected governments could be turned on India if Washington feels that it is necessary.

China is being diplomatic, but it knows very well what the West is perpetrating in Ukraine. 

I suspect that many smaller nations have kept silent and abstained in any votes on the issue due to their fear of US retaliation in the form of a regime change operation. 

- Mike


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Kamikaze truck in Ukraine!

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cf9_1397025640


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

I tried to play some STALKER the other day 

It was awkward 

Especially Call of Pripyat where you play as a member of the Ukraine special forces trying to save trapped Ukraine troops from DA ZONE 

the last part is a pain in the ass because snipers will pick off the troops you are trying to save

oh well, they were most likely all NAZIs anyway


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Crimea's Kerch celebrates 70th anniversary of liberation from Nazis

Published time: April 11, 2014 20:14








[/URL][/IMG]
_Marines plant Soviet Naval Jack to mark the liberation of the city of Kerch from Nazi German troops, April 1944 (RIA Novosti / Haldei)
_

Commemoration ceremonies have been held April 10 and 11. People laid flowers at the monuments to Soviet soldiers who died in their thousands on tiny strips of coastal land and in catacombs of the Adzhimushkay quarry while fighting the Nazi invaders in 1941-44. 

One such memorial spot lies in what used to be a small village of Eltigen, where Soviet troops carried out a major landing operation. Known as the Kerch–Eltigen Operation, the November 1943 amphibious landing was met with a hail of fire from Nazi German reinforcements. The landing spot at Eltigen was referred to as “burning land” by the battle’s participants. Soviet troops were eventually forced out of Eltigen but managed to hold onto a beachhead west of Kerch, which in April 1944 served as a crucial launch pad for Crimea’s liberation. 

Memories of ruthless battles survive in the tales of veterans, who are particularly revered in Kerch. 

Marine trooper: ‘I still don’t know how we made it’ 

*‘History of Crimea sacrifice runs deep in Russian psyche’ *

Amid the controversy with the accession of Crimea into Russia following the March 16 popular referendum, which a number of Western leaders have blasted as “annexation,” there is a small but growing understanding in the West of the region’s place in Russian culture and history. Only by studying the historical context can one understand what the places like Kerch and Sevastopol mean for the Russians and why a large part of the Russian-speaking majority of Crimea have always considered the region to be a Russian land.








[/URL][/IMG]

In a recent article on WalesOnline, titled: “The carnage in Crimea during World War II has shaped Putin’s response to Ukraine crisis” Professor Len Scott, an expert in International History and Intelligence Studies at Aberystwyth University of Wales, argues that the enormous loss of life during the WWII battles for the Soviet Russian region “has been a factor in the equation which no-one seems to include, and which reflects our lack of knowledge of, and respect for, Russian history.” 

“If you look at the sacrifices, if you look at the casualties (when of course the USSR was Britain’s ally against Germany) – that is seared on generations of Russians and the peoples of the Soviet Union. None of this explains away or apologizes for the crimes of Stalin. Yet the history of the sacrifice at Sevastopol, Leningrad, Moscow and Stalingrad runs deep in the Russian psyche. Whatever Mr. Putin’s other calculations in the Crimea, the weight of Russian history weighs down upon his shoulders,” Scott writes. 

“For many Russians in the Crimea this is memory, not history. For others, it is the history of their parents and their uncles and their aunts,” he adds.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> On the other hand, they have not criticized Russia, nor have they voted against Russia in the U.N. And, they have *NOT* by any stretch of the imagination supported the US/EU position on Ukraine.
> 
> India has had excellent relations with Russia since Soviet times. But, in my opinion, equally important is the fear that the US regime change operations against democratically elected governments could be turned on India if Washington feels that it is necessary.
> 
> ...


China abstaining in the UN felt fairly symbolic from where I was standing. It's as if they didn't agree with Russia but intentionally acted netural on it so they didn't look like they were succumbing to Western powers. Then again, that's conjecture, must like you seamlessly dubbing the Ukranian uprising as a US-forced regime change, where there's fundamentally no evidence to support such an assertion. Of course the US funded the opposition _once_ the protests happened (seizing opportunity, so to speak), but I simply can not agree that this was part of some intricate plan. Back to Russia and China, the 'supposed' supper alliance is a simply a fabrication, designed to startle the West, and make Russia look stronger than what it is. In reality, Putin is highly weary of China since one thing the Chinese have always lacked is natural resources, so they've had their eye on Siberia for a long time, and Putin knows this. Siberia is on China's doorstep. This is why China is purchasing endless amounts of forgein land in Australia and have the constant island disputes with Japan - they need natural resources, and geographically speaking, Siberia is perfect for them.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

RIGHT SECTOR THUGS SEIZE REGIONAL COMMUNIST PARTY HEADQUARTERS IN ROVNO AND ENGAGE IN A GOOD OLD FASHIONED NAZI BOOK BURNING!









[/URL][/IMG]
_Members of neo-Nazi Right Sector pose in front of Rovno regional Communist Party Headquarters after seizing offices and burning books and literature_.

About 50 activists from Right Sector have seized the headquarters of the Ukrainian Communist Party's regional branch in Rivne, the ZIK.ua website said.

The activists demanded closing down the Communist Party and handing its offices to local authorities because of the Communist leadership's "connivance in separatist activity in the east and south of Ukraine," a story on ZIK.ua said.

They removed literature, newspapers, portraits of Karl Marx and Vladimir Lenin, and busts of Lenin and Josef Stalin from the regional office.

"The coordinators of the action made assurances that they would pass over the portraits and busts to a museum. *The literature and printed periodic publications were burned in a barnfire immediately outside the building,"* ZIK.ua said.

The office was sealed off with plaques hung outside saying it was "*under Right Sector protection*."

ZIK.ua said people who were inside the office when the Right Sector activists raided it offered no resistance and left.

The website said there had been no violence but that verbal wrangles had broken out between two groups of women - Communist and Right Sector supporters.

Communist branch leader Olexander Voznyuk said the office was private property and that "there will be an appropriate reaction."


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

I enjoy a good book BBQ

While you constantly have to feed the fire I find that old novels leave a fantastic smokey flavor on your meats


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)




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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

CrossTalk - typically 3-1, or, in some cases, 4-0 in favour of Russia. 

I watch the show regularly, but seldom when it comes to the events in Ukraine because I know I am seeing a largely inequitable 'debate'.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Putin to US: It’s bad to read other people’s letters



> President Vladimir Putin says it was “strange” to learn of the US reaction on a Russian letter to the leaders of EU’s top gas-consuming nations, as it was in no way designed for Washington’s eyes.
> 
> US State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki has accused Russia of reneging on an agreement that offered reduced gas prices to Kiev and using “energy as a tool of coercion against Ukraine.”
> 
> ...


More here.


Like the US, Russia is no short of exhibiting almost unparalleled hypocrisy. Which country listened in on the Victoria Newland phone call again and posted it extensively on social media? Did Putin honestly think the US wouldn't have known about this letter? Is he joking here? A majority of Western Europe share close alliances with Obama's administration, so this was fully expected. This is almost as amusing as when Obama ironically accused another country of invading their 'territorial integrity and sovereignty'.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> More here.
> Did Putin honestly think the US wouldn't have known about this letter? Is he joking here? QUOTE]
> 
> Obviously, he was being sarcastic.
> ...


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> Despot said:
> 
> 
> > More here.
> ...


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> Batko10 said:
> 
> 
> > Whether he was being sarcastic or not does not discard the irony of this:
> ...


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> Despot said:
> 
> 
> > Well, the U.S. is infamous for spying and eavesdropping not only on its enemies, but also on its allies and its own citizens. Only someone who is extremely naive would expect Washington not to intercept such a message. Or, even more likely, to be told about the message by one of its allies who received it.
> ...


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Well, the U.S. is infamous for spying and eavesdropping not only on its enemies, but also on its allies and its own citizens. Only someone who is extremely naive would expect Washington not to intercept such a message. Or, even more likely, to be told about the message by one of its allies who received it.
> 
> - Mike


Yeah, because Russia never did anything like this. Especially not in the Soviet Union.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Today is Cosmonautics Day / International Day of Human Space Flight









_Yuri Gagarin, First Human to Travel in Outer Space_

Cosmonautics Day is a holiday celebrated in Russia and some other former USSR countries on April 12. Later on, *since April 7, 2011 the April 12 was declared as the International Day of Human Space Flight by the U.N. in dedication of the first manned space flight made on April 12, 1961 by the 27-year-old Russian Soviet cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin*. Gagarin circled the Earth for 1 hour and 48 minutes aboard the Vostok 1 spacecraft.

The holiday was established in the Soviet Union one year later, on April 9, 1962. In modern Russia, it is celebrated in accordance with Article 1.1 of the Law "On the Days of Military Glory and the Commemorative Dates in Russia."









_Valentina Tereshkova, First Woman to Travel in Outer Space_

Gagarin's flight was a major success for the Soviet space program, and opened a new era in the history of space exploration. Gagarin became a national hero of the Soviet Union and eastern bloc and a famous figure around the world. Major newspapers around the globe published his biography and details of his flight. Moscow and other cities in the USSR held parades, the scale of which were second only to WWII Victory Parades. Gagarin was escorted in a long motorcade of high-ranking officials through the streets of Moscow to the Kremlin where, in a lavish ceremony, he was awarded the highest Soviet honour, the title of Hero of the Soviet Union, by the Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev.









"_Cosmonautics Day - April 12_"

Nowadays the commemoration ceremony on Cosmonautics Day starts in the city of Korolyov, near Gagarin's statue. Participants then proceed under police escort to Red Square for a visit to Gagarin's grave in the Kremlin Wall Necropolis, and continue to Cosmonauts Alley, near the Monument to the Conquerors of Space. Finally, the festivities are concluded with a visit to the Novodevichy Cemetery.








[/URL][/IMG]

*On April 7, 2011 United Nations General Assembly adopted a resolution declaring April 12 as the International Day of Human Space Flight.
*


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

The Manowarrior said:


> Yeah, because Russia never did anything like this. Especially not in the Soviet Union.


I find it slightly amusing that some (nobody here, in particular) are under the farcical preconceived notion that the Russian Federation dropped all of its espionage activities after the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Russia and the US still spy on each other with regularity, and one can be sure it'll undoubtedly increase since relations between the two now are at a 25 year low.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> I find it slightly amusing that some (nobody here, in particular) are under the farcical preconceived notion that the Russian Federation dropped all of its espionage activities after the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Russia and the US still spy on each other with regularity, and one can be sure it'll undoubtedly increase since relations between the two now are at a 25 year low.


I can't argue with that. I don't believe that anyone participating in this thread is under the notion that post-Soviet Russia or the United States has dropped all of its espionage activities. Spying has been going on since there have been governments.

- Mike


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> I can't argue with that. I don't believe that anyone participating in this thread is under the notion that post-Soviet Russia or the United States has dropped all of its espionage activities. Spying has been going on since there have been governments.
> 
> - Mike


Thankfully, the people in this thread are well informed and educated enough about the nature of international relations and global politics to not subscribe to such fallacy, but there have been numerous people I have spoken to before who almost bewilderingly accepted the idea that both Russia and the US dropped all of its Cold War mentalities and pursuits following the collapse of the USSR. 

Amusing, to say the least.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

ANTI-JUNTA PATRIOTS SEIZE POLICE STATIONS IN EASTERN UKRAINE



Interfax-Ukraine
Ukrainian News Agency

16:15 12.04.2014

*Armed men reportedly seize police stations in east Ukraine*

Armed men seized the city police station in *Krasny Lyman *in eastern Ukraine's Donets Basin coal-mining area, a Ukrainian news Web site said on Saturday, citing witnesses.









_Armed with automatic weapons and hunting shotguns patriots seize police station in Krasny Lyman, eastern Ukraine_. 

*About 20 armed men raided the police station building, which had been surrounded by members of Afghan war veteran and Cossack organizations*, according to Russian-language Web site Novosti Donbassa (News of Donbass), novosti.dn.ua.

A member of Ukraine's parliament, Oleksandr Bryhynets, said on Facebook: "Separatists have seized the police building in Krasny Lyman. There are negotiations with them underway."

No other details were known.









_Police station in Sloviansk captured and occupied by anti-junta patriots_.

In *Sloviansk*, another city in Donetsk region, *the police station and the building of the local branch of the Security Service were captured on Saturday morning by armed men *styling themselves as members of "the people's militia of the Donets Basin."









_In Krasny Lyman riot police don't look very concerned about the occupation of their police station_.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*PATRIOTS PREPARE BARRICADES AROUND CAPTURED POLICE STATION TO CHEERS OF THE PEOPLE*





Thousands rally in Donetsk, activists take over govt buildings in Slavyansk

Published time: April 12, 2014 15:20 

Thousands of people have gathered in Donetsk,in eastern Ukraine,calling for the federalization of the country. The demonstrators also started forming militias to help anti-Maidan protesters in Slavyansk, who seized several government buildings in the city.

Activists in Slavyansk, a city in eastern Ukraine located in the north of the Donetsk region with a population of 120,000, seized the police headquarters and the city council building Saturday. Police said Anti-Maidan protesters also seized the local office of Ukraine’s Security Service, the SBU. 








[/URL][/IMG]

They hoisted a Russian flag on top of the police HQ, Slavyansk Mayor Nelly Shtepa said. 

“As I negotiated with the activists today, they explained that they represent the Donetsk regional people’s militia. They said that they oppose Kiev authorities and today they are negotiating with them” she said. 

Shtepa added that the people of the city support the activists’ calls for a referendum on the region’s federalization, and are urging the police to side with the people. 

If the authorities in Kiev will “try to suppress the uprising, many civilians will die, this cannot be allowed,” Shtepa said. 








[/URL][/IMG]
_An armed pro-Russian activists addresses supporters gathered in front of a police station in the eastern Ukrainian city of Slavyansk after it was seized by a few dozen gunmen on April 12, 2014. (AFP Photo / Anatoliy Stepanov)
_
There are reports that the activists in Slavyansk have taken up weapons. However, one of the members of the Donbas people’s militia told media that no one was hurt during the storm of the police HQ, adding that the government building will be under their control until a referendum is held. 

Ukraine’s coup-imposed Interior Minister Arsen Avakov wrote on his Facebook page that the raid on police HQ was carried out by masked men with guns. He promised that the government’s answer to the raid would be “very harsh.” Avakov added that a Special Forces unit has been deployed to the scene. 

Anti-Maidan protesters stopped two buses full of security forces which were heading from Donetsk to Slavyansk, Rossiya 24 TV channel reported. *After negotiations, the security forces turned back to their Donetsk HQ*. 

*“I can’t say there was a conflict between the police and activists, the latter just accompanied the Special Unit forces back to their HQ,” *said a Rossiya 24 correspondent, who was at the scene.








[/URL][/IMG] 
_A pro-Russian activist reaches through razor wire to receive a ribbon of St. George, a well-known Russian symbol of military valor which has become a symbol of pro-Russian protesters, at a barricade outside the regional state administration building in Donetsk, eastern Ukraine, on April 12, 2014. (AFP Photo / Max Vetrov)_

Amid the protests calling for Ukraine’s federalization, acting president Aleksandr Turchinov sacked the head of the SBU security service for the Donetsk region, Valery Ivanov, on Saturday, according to a decree published on the presidential website. 

The regional police chief of Donetsk, Konstantin Pozhidayev, said Saturday he was quitting his post after the protesters urged him to step down. 

Unrest has gripped eastern Ukraine after the EuroMaidan protests in Kiev, which resulted in a coup on February 22. People in Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk and other cities are calling for a referendum to decide on the status of the Donbass regions.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

stevefox1200 said:


> *I enjoy a good book BBQ
> 
> *While you constantly have to feed the fire I find that old novels leave a fantastic smokey flavor on your meats


Well, then you should enjoy these photos of the spiritual fathers of the Western Ukrainian neo-Nazis that you support.

*BOOK BURNINGS IN NAZI GERMANY IN THE 1930s*






































Stevie, just so that you will feel at home, here are a couple of the recent book burnings by your neo-Nazi thugs whom Washington supports.

*FASCIST BOOK BURNING OUTSIDE CPU HEADQUARTERS IN KIEV 2014*









*KIEV CPU HEADQUARTERS BURNED DOWN BY RIGHT SECTOR FASCISTS 2014
*


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

I like how simplified this crisis has become. 

If you support the uprising = you're supporting neo-Nazis. I wish it could be that simple, but sadly, it's not. 

It is true the current government has far-right tendencies, but a large portion of the protesters -- predominately students and _average_ citiizens -- are normal people that have no ideological agenda, other than revolting against their corrupt, cupid, and dishonest government. Unfortunately, you've got propaganda media outlets saying each and every single one of the protesters are 'radicals', funded by the West, all part of some intricate masterplan, much like the large-scaled protests against Putin in 2012.

It's actually rather hilarious, and complete distorts the events unfolding in Ukraine.


----------



## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

If the western Ukraines would switch over the Hitler Youth style shorts instead of the army surplus and hunting gear camo 

I mean look at the German Nazis and then look at the Ukrainian ones

The Germans are all styling in slick clothes and happy having a good time at a book bone fire, probably enjoying a bit bratwurst and schnapps while someone reads Mein Kampf on nice evening 

Where as the Ukraines are all in their camo and trying to be hard next to that fitful fire 

When they Nazi's did it it was like a party but when the neo-Nazi's do it its like they are posers

There aint no party like a Nazi party


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> I like how simplified this crisis has become.
> 
> If you support the uprising = you're supporting neo-Nazis. I wish it could be that simple, but sadly, it's not.
> 
> ...


First of all, my post was aimed at the poster who thinks Nazi book burnings are funny. Will his next joke be about burning Jews? Russians??

Secondly, of course there were "average" citizens without an agenda in the streets during the Maidan insurgency. However, the "shock troops" and people that did the serious fighting and killing were neo-fascist thugs brought in from Western Ukraine. They are also the people who are now being trained in the "National Guard" and occupy some key posts in government as well as being represented in the Verkhovna Rada. 

I would not be surprised if alot of the "average" citizens now regret that they participated in the insurgency, having realized that they were pawns used to further the neo-fascist agenda. 

The real irony is that the neo-Nazi Western Ukrainians' revolution that was intended to create a united, ethnically "pure" Ukraine is going to end with the country being split up into two or three parts. 

- Mike


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> First of all, my post was aimed at the poster who thinks Nazi book burnings are funny. Will his next joke be about burning Jews? Russians??
> 
> Secondly, of course there were "average" citizens without an agenda in the streets during the Maidan insurgency. However, the "shock troops" and people that did the serious fighting and killing were neo-fascist thugs brought in from Western Ukraine. They are also the people who are now being trained in the "National Guard" and occupy some key posts in government as well as being represented in the Verkhovna Rada.
> 
> ...


As I've said on numerous occasions, I acknowledge that there is highly discernible far-right tendencies in the current Ukrainian regime. I also acknowledge that the West is economically supporting -- what is essentially -- an illegal coup that were not democratically elected into government. I still think it is too simplistic to merely label the uprising as one of neo-Nazism or constantly refer to the fascist ideology when discussing the opposition. This 'revolution' is still in its youth, and it is being highly distorted on a frequent basis by various media outlets and nations, so we'll see how well their political infrastructure stabilises once there is an actual election.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> ...so we'll see how well their political infrastructure stabilises once there is an actual election.


There are a number of problems with an election.

First of all, there is the question of the legitimacy of the junta and its right to be holding the election.

Secondly, the people in the east and south have no faith in the unelected government to hold a fair election. They know who will be counting the votes. Let's be honest here, do you really believe that the people running the show in Kiev are going to give a fair vote count?

Thirdly, even if there is an attempt at an unbiased election by the unelected regime, Right Sector and Svoboda will be using intimidation to influence not only voters, but politicians who oppose their agenda. We've already seen what happens to MPs, television executives, prosecutors, and others who don't tow the Right Sector/Svoboda line. 

In my opinion, any election is going to be viewed by half the population just as illegitimate as the government that is conducting it. Without giving the regions real autonomy, the right to chose their own governors, and hold local referendums that are binding there won't be much progress.

I know that that weasel Yatsiniuk went to Donetsk and made all sorts of promises this week. It would appear that the people there trust him about as much as I do.

The worse thing that Kiev could do now is unleash an attack on the eastern and southern regions, especially using Yarosh's Right Sector forces. That would seal the fate of Ukrainian national disintegration by one way or the other. 

- Mike


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Well, yes, fraudulent voting, amongst other dysfunctions may very well be present, but stranger things have happened. Still, I can not see any stability in Ukraine unless the state ultimately dissolves into two, even if the international community attempts to pass off the elections as a 'democratic success'. 

Splitting a nation into two, however, is still a prodigious reorganisation in the geopolitical sphere, as easy as it sounds.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> There are a number of problems with an election.
> 
> First of all, there is the question of the legitimacy of the junta and its right to be holding the election.
> 
> ...


Everything you just said, happened in the Crimea referendum, so if you supported that, you should support this too. Otherwise, it would be hypocritical.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Everything you just said, happened in the Crimea referendum, so if you supported that, you should support this too. Otherwise, it would be hypocritical.


Not really, Tomas. The overthrow of the legitimate elected government in Kiev by the Maidan Mob and the trashing of the Ukrainian Constitution by the junta marked the formation of a totally illegal government. The junta was installed by force, not democratically elected, and created the situation that led to the Crimean secession and present tensions. 

The Crimea had a peaceful referendum and after the results came in it was pretty obvious that it was *NOT* rigged. Hundreds of thousands of people participated in *NON-VIOLENT* celebrations across the peninsula.

Right Sector type thugs were *NOT* intimidating citizens and officials. Crimean Tatars were invited to come out and participate in the referendum. If they didn't it was their choice, but not because of physical intimidation and threats.

It is highly unlikely that any election organized and held by the present illegal regime in Kiev is going to be fair or considered legitimate by at least half the population of the country.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

PATRIOTS MAKE A STAND IN SLOVIANSK - KIEV SENDS IN TROOPS BOLSTERED BY RIGHT SECTOR THUGS

Ukraine's Slavyansk under siege as Kiev orders crackdown on protests


Published time: April 13, 2014 06:17 

Gunfire has broken out in the city of Slavyansk in eastern Ukraine, where anti-government protesters seized several buildings. The city is under siege after Kiev announced an “anti-terrorist operation” against the protesters. 

The shooting apparently erupted Sunday morning at a checkpoint, which was established by protesters Saturday evening on the outskirts of the city. 

Amid the skirmishes, Ukrainian helicopters were flying overhead. 

Local residents also said several transport helicopters landed at an old airfield some 5 kilometers from the town center. Troops wearing black uniforms disembarked and went toward Slavyansk.








[/URL][/IMG]
The eastern city of Slavyansk on April 13, 2014. (Reuters / Maks Levin) 

In the skirmishes, one of the troops from Kiev was killed and five others were injured, coup-appointed Interior Minister Arsen Avakov reported on his Facebook page, which he regularly uses to report on his ministry’s activities. 

The officer killed was a member of the Ukrainian Security Service (SBU), he said, adding that among those injured is the commander of the SBU’s Anti-Terrorist Center. 

Avakov said that the protesters had also sustained casualties, but gave no further details. He accused them of using civilians as human shields. Reporters in Slavyansk said that some locals were present at the protester-held buildings and barricades, but said they were volunteers supporting the pro-independence cause. 

The Donetsk region health authorities said one person has been killed on a road connecting Slavyansk with Artyomovsk, and another five injured by gunshots in the city of Slavyansk. It was not immediately clear whether these casualties were the ones referred to earlier Sunday by Avakov. 

*The protesters in Slavyansk said one person was killed and two others injured on their side. They also claimed that two of the Kiev troops were killed*. 

*At least one of the protesters’ checkpoints was taken down and demolished by troops from Kiev. However, the defenders fell back and erected a new barricade at a bridge*, RIA Novosti reports. 

*The defenders of the city set on fire some of the barricades, which were made from tires*. 

Approaches to the city have been blocked by uniformed troops besieging the city, RIA Novosti reported. Local bus services from the city have been canceled due to the blockade, Itar-Tass reported. 

There are rumors that among the troops besieging Slavyansk are members of the radical ultranationalist Right Sector movement. On Saturday, Right Sector leader Dmitry Yarosh announced he was “mobilizing” his movement’s members “to take decisive steps to defend Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity.” 

*Kiev’s troops are still not in control of the town center*. The protesters at the Slavyansk police station, which was the first building they captured Saturday, are preparing to fend off a siege, LifeNews reports from the scene. The building has been reinforced with barricades over the past 24 hours. Similar defensive precautions are being taken at other buildings controlled by the protesters. 

“*The people are rising up, fortifying the barricades*,” Slavyansk resident Miroslav Rudenko told RT. “*People do not recognize the government currently sitting in Kiev*.” 

Avakov on Sunday morning has announced an “anti-terrorist operation” in Slavyansk. As the confrontation was under way, the official said that civilians in the city should remain indoors and away from windows. 

Avakov already announced “zero-tolerance policy towards armed terrorists” in Slavyansk and the deployment of anti-terrorist troops in the city on Saturday morning. However no action materialized, as security troops reportedly refused to follow an order to attack protesters. 

Russia has warned that if Kiev uses force against anti-Maidan protests in eastern Ukraine, this would undermine the effort to convene a four-party conference on resolving the crisis in the country, which would include the US, the EU, Russia and Ukraine.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

When they're Ukrainian, they're nazis and fascists. When they're Russian, they're patriots. Great to see that Batko and RT are non-biased truth-tellers.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> When they're Ukrainian, they're nazis and fascists. When they're Russian, they're patriots. Great to see that Batko and RT are non-biased truth-tellers.


Actually, a large percentage (if not a majority) of the people in eastern and southern Ukraine are *ETHNIC* Ukrainians who speak Russian as their first language. 

The *PATRIOTS* are the people standing up against the junta in Kiev - both *UKRAINIAN* and *RUSSIAN*! 

Most Ukrainians are *NOT* fascists/nazis. The *WESTERN UKRAINIANS* of *RIGHT SECTOR* and* SVOBODA* make up the core base of the Ukrainian neo-nazi movement, and have a history of nazism since collaborating with the German nazi occupation in Ukraine during WW II.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

To say that all Western Ukrainians are nazis is a sweeping generalization. Another fallacy is to say that there are no nazis is Eastern Ukraine or Russia. And again, you antagonize the west. What I don't understand is why you always only shed the light on one side of the story.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> To say that all Western Ukrainians are nazis is a sweeping generalization. Another fallacy is to say that there are no nazis is Eastern Ukraine or Russia. And again, you antagonize the west. What I don't understand is why you always only shed the light on one side of the story.


I undertand that English is not your first language, but if you read my post carefully, I said the *WESTERN UKRAINIANS of RIGHT SECTOR and SVOBODA*. 

I never said there weren't any neo-Nazis in Russia. There are neo-Nazi groups in Russia, but they are fringe elements. They do not control key government positions as they do in Kiev, and are not running around as law enforcers terrorizing citizens that don't agree with the illegal junta in Kiev. 

Most neo-Nazis in the south and east were sent there from the West. The homegrown neo-Nazis in east/south Ukraine are a small minority.

I have explained a couple of times why I report one side. In the West every major news outlet is reporting the US/EU version. This is a perfect venue to get out the other side of the story.

And, just as important, I do not support the junta and the US/NATO eastern expansion. But, you already knew that!

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> I undertand that English is not your first language, but if you read my post carefully, I said the *WESTERN UKRAINIANS of RIGHT SECTOR and SVOBODA*.
> 
> I never said there weren't any neo-Nazis in Russia. There are neo-Nazi groups in Russia, but they are fringe elements. They do not control key government positions as they do in Kiev, and are not running around as law enforcers terrorizing citizens that don't agree with the illegal junta in Kiev.
> 
> ...


You don't support America's expansion, but do Russia's. I get that. But for the FAIRNESS, why don't you post both Western media news and Eastern media news and let people chose on their own?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> You don't support America's expansion, but do Russia's. I get that. But for the FAIRNESS, why don't you post both Western media news and Eastern media news and let people chose on their own?


What Russian expansion? For the last two decades Russia has sat quietly while the U.S. expanded NATO from 12 member states to 28 moving east right up to Russia's borders. 

During those two decades U.S. regime changes, attempted regime changes, bombings and outright invasions of sovereign nations reached new heights even when compared to the Cold War era. Arming psychotics like Mikhail Saakashvili and tacitly supporting their aggressions also marked the two decades since the dissolution of the USSR.

The U.S. missile shield being constructed near Russia's borders is the icing on the cake of the United States' empire building efforts.

Ukraine is where Russia has drawn the line. And this is not an "Obama" line. The U.S. Empire's expansion stops here!

As I said, people can see the US/EU version of the news by just looking at their TV, tuning in their radio, or reading their local newspaper. The other side of the story takes some searching. Even google doesn't make it as readily accessible as the western version of the news.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*ANTI-JUNTA UKRAINIAN PATRIOTS IN KHARKOV STORM THE KHARKOV CITY COUNCIL / POLICE JOIN THE PEOPLE!*

*Sunday, April 13, 2014*






*RIGHT SECTOR THUGS GET THEIR ASSES KICKED BY UKRAINIAN PATRIOTS IN KHARKOV / THE SHOE IS NOT SO COMFORTABLE WHEN IT'S ON THE OTHER FOOT!
*
*Sunday, April 13, 2014*






*UKRAINIAN PATRIOTS PEACEFULLY DISARM JUNTA TROOPS IN ARTYOMOVSK*

*Saturday, April 12, 2014*


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Ukraine is on the brink of civil war. 

Interestingly, a lot of the pro-Russian forces in the Eastern Ukrainian cities are wearing the exact same uniform and masks of those in the Crimea, before the annexation. This is a fairly conjectural statement, but I think it's a logical to say that Putin did orchestrate at least some of these forces as a pretext to separate a majority of Ukraine's eastern bloc from its western bloc. 

Putin does not want an anti-Russia, pro-Western, possibly pro-EU, pro-NATO government on their doorstep. He'll go to extreme lengths before allowing that to happen. It'd be hugely detrimental to their geopolitical interests, especially their naval fleet on the Black Sea peninsula. Anybody who thinks an elitist like Putin wouldn't go to these lengths are simply ignorant.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> What Russian expansion? For the last two decades Russia has sat quietly while the U.S. expanded NATO from 12 member states to 28 moving east right up to Russia's borders.
> 
> During those two decades U.S. regime changes, attempted regime changes, bombings and outright invasions of sovereign nations reached new heights even when compared to the Cold War era. Arming psychotics like Mikhail Saakashvili and tacitly supporting their aggressions also marked the two decades since the dissolution of the USSR.
> 
> ...


You're forgetting one imperative thing - many people in Western Ukraine _want_ to be part of the European community, and _want_ to detach themselves from Russian presence. This can not be ignored. Your post is giving the underlying implication that what is happening in Ukraine is part of some intricate masterplan by the West against the wishes of *all* Ukrainians. It is all about Western expansion, and nothing more - this is an fallacious and ill-founded assertion. Let's not forget that this uprising initially ignited because of the now ousted Ukraine President rejecting closer ties with EU in favour of strengthening relations with Russia. This angered numerous people, and, as a result, uprising was instigated. 

There are various people in Ukraine (predominately in its western half) that want a pro-Western nation, and right now, they're getting it, albeit at the expense of a questionable, far-right government.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> Your post is giving the underlying implication that what is happening in Ukraine is part of some intricate masterplan by the West against the wishes of *all* Ukrainians. It is all about Western expansion, and nothing more - this is an fallacious and ill-founded assertion.
> .


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Batko10 said:


>


I've seen that video before, and again, my point still stands. A lot of that content is pure conjecture, and does not warrant the claims you are spouting.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> I've seen that video before, and again, my point still stands. A lot of that content is pure conjecture, and does not warrant the claims you are spouting.


Apparently, anything that goes against your position is "pure conjecture" and anyone that disagrees with you is "spouting claims." I won't bother arguing with you. 

Let the list members following this thread judge the merits of the video for themselves.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*SLAVYANSK DEFIES KIEV JUNTA ULTIMATUM - MONDAY, APRIL 14 - THE DEADLINE FOR THE 9 AM ULTIMATUM IS PASSED AND NO ATTACK!*






*ODESSA PATRIOTS MARCH AGAINST U.S. DESTROYER DOCKING IN PORT - SUNDAY, APRIL 13*






*UKRAINIAN PATRIOTS TAKE CITY HALL IN MARIUPOL - PREPARE FOR STORM - SUNDAY, APRIL 13*






*UKRAINIAN PATRIOTS SEIZE GOVERNMENT BUILDING IN HORLIVKA - MONDAY, APRIL 14*

Published April 14, 2014
·FoxNews.com

Pro-Russia militants seized another government building in eastern Ukraine Monday, hours after a deadline set by the Ukrainian government for gunmen to surrender their weapons passed early Monday, with no immediate sign of any action to force the insurgents out.

The Associated Press reported that dozens of angry men hurled rocks, smashed windows and broke into a police station in the city of Horlivka not far from the border with Russia, while hundreds of onlookers cheered them on. Thick white smoke rose from the entrance to the building.

A deadline set by the Ukrainian government for pro-Russian gunmen to leave government buildings in eastern Ukraine and surrender weapons passed early Monday, with no immediate sign of any action to force the insurgents out.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> *Apparently, anything that goes against your position is "pure conjecture" and anyone that disagrees with you is "spouting claims."* I won't bother arguing with you.
> 
> Let the list members following this thread judge the merits of the video for themselves.
> 
> - Mike


You do the same thing. It is absolutely beyond me how you can even say anything like this about someone else when you do the same thing and don't even acknowledge it. Everyone who is against you or doesn't agree with you is a nazi, fascist, right-sector thug, scum, etc.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> Apparently, anything that goes against your position is "pure conjecture" and anyone that disagrees with you is "spouting claims." I won't bother arguing with you.
> 
> Let the list members following this thread judge the merits of the video for themselves.
> 
> - Mike


I am sorry, sir, but there is no viable evidence that suggests the uprising was orchestrated or engineered by Western powers, including that leaked phone call which only supported the notion that the coup was economically supported by the US, not intricately designed by them. Therefore, any assertions put forward are automatically rendered as purely speculative and conjectural in nature, are they not? That video is analysis without any substantiation. I won't just accept it like various others do. 

I personally think Putin staged these pro-Russian forces, but I can not substantiate this claim with evidence, so it is a speculative assertion at this stage, and I admit that.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> You do the same thing. It is absolutely beyond me how you can even say anything like this about someone else when you do the same thing and don't even acknowledge it. Everyone who is against you or doesn't agree with you is a nazi, fascist, right-sector thug, scum, etc.


We were talking about the presentation of evidence as opposed to speculation.

I haven't called anyone a Nazi who hasn't supported Right Sector and Svoboda. If one supports those groups like you have been doing since the beginning of this, then it is apparent that the person is a neo-Nazi sympathizer in the least.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck - it must be a duck!

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> We were talking about the presentation of evidence as opposed to speculation.
> 
> I haven't called anyone a Nazi who hasn't supported Right Sector and Svoboda. If one supports those groups like you have been doing since the beginning of this, then it is apparent that the person is a neo-Nazi sympathizer in the least.
> 
> ...


I don't support nazis. I never even said I do. You're just making up stuff to support your opinion. Sounds familiar to me.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

The Manowarrior said:


> I don't support nazis. I never even said I do. You're just making up stuff to support your opinion. Sounds familiar to me.


Therein lies the problem. 

If you support the Ukrainian uprising, according to some, you're bluntly supporting neo-Nazis. And that is simply false. I support the *revolution*. I support the rebellious insurgence against Yanukovich, a President riddled with venality and cupidity, and somebody who has razed Ukraine to the ground. That is what I support. I don't support Western and Russian interference. 

Just because you support the uprising does not mean you are automatically supporting the coup, since very seldom is any coup reflective of the majority of protesters.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Despot said:


> Therein lies the problem.
> 
> If you support the Ukrainian uprising, according to some, you're bluntly supporting neo-Nazis. And that is simply false. I support the *revolution*. I support the rebellious insurgence against Yanukovich, a President riddled with venality and cupidity, and somebody who has razed Ukraine to the ground. That is what I support. I don't support Western and Russian interference.
> 
> Just because you support the uprising does not mean you are automatically supporting the coup, since very seldom is any coup reflective of the majority of protesters.


Yes that is false. So there's no problem there. The problem lies in those who think that the uprising was only done by neo-nazis. I only supported the people who wanted a change. Not nazis who took advantage of this situation. I never said that I support the current government or Yulia Tymoshenko, because I don't.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Horlivka is the 9th city to be taken by eastern Ukrainian patriots.
The map below lists only the cities that have been taken under the control of the anti-junta patriotic forces. Demonstrations and civil actions are occuring in Kharkov, Odessa, Zaporozhiya, and other cities.








[/URL][/IMG]

Cities under anti-junta patriotic control:
Donetsk
Lugansk
Slavyansk
Kramatorsk
Artyomovsk
Druzhkivka
Anakiyevo
Mariupol
Gorlivka


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Protesters in Eastern Ukraine (i.e., pro-Russian forces) = patriots.
Protesters in Western Ukraine (i.e., pro-Western forces) = radicals. 

A lot of double-standards here from the media.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Cities taken by anti-junta patriots.

Cities held by neo-nazi thugs.

Batko, try to say that you aren't using double standards.

You act like pro-Russian separatists are just unarmed peaceful protesters. Do you even understand how stupid it sounds?


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

*4 killed in unrest in Eastern Ukraine*

KIEV, April 14 (Xinhua) -- At least four people were killed in a spate of violence between Ukrainian security forces and pro-Russia activists in eastern Ukraine during the weekend, local media reported Monday.

According to the local 1+1 TV channel, two security officers were shot dead by pro-Russia protesters at a police station in the industrial town of Slavyansk.

Meanwhile, armed pro-Russia protesters also opened fire at a private car in the town center, killing two civilians, the TV channel said.

Local media also estimated that some 10 people were injured during the clashes, but there was no immediate comment from the government about the exact number of casualties.

The gunbattle between pro-Russia activists and Ukrainian special forces dimmed hopes for a quick solution to the crisis in the east of the country, where pro-Russia protesters are demanding a referendum on autonomy.

Tensions in Ukraine's Russian-speaking eastern regions soared over the weekend, when pro-Moscow activists seized several government buildings in the cities of Donetsk, Lugansk and Kharkov, demanding closer ties with Russia.

Kiev has accused Kremlin of fomenting the unrest, but Moscow denied the accusations. 

Source: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world/2014-04/14/c_133261575.htm

This was reported by a Chinese news site. Batko said that China is neutral, so their reports must be true. So much for your peaceful, unarmed protesters.

Notice how this article includes no name calling and doesn't take sides or give opinions. Just reporting the facts.


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

The Manowarrior said:


> Cities taken by anti-junta patriots.
> 
> Cities held by neo-nazi thugs.
> 
> ...


Lol irony.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Some here will call this propaganda. Others will see it as a statement to Ukrainians and Russians to unite against the neo-fascist forces in the country and their foreign backers from the US/EU. 

Personally, I don't care how you look at it. Below is a partial translation so non-Russian speakers get the idea.

*RUSSIA FOR THE UKRAINE!*

by Lena Vasiliok

For what kind of hard currency,
For what kind of medals
Did you so brazenly sell out Russia?

"Who gave you the right to debase our memory?
We are both Slavs.
Our natures are one."

"Hey, you, there on the Maidan.
You’re not all of Ukraine!
Did you ask the coal miners?
Did you ask the workers?
What? The east of Ukraine hates Russia??"

"Every day they fulfill the work order.
How much were you paid to sell out the Donbass?
Was it dollars in packets 
Or in the packets was there the soul of our peoples?"

It ends with a still from "Alexander Nevsky" and his last line in the movie:
"He who comes to us with the sword
Shall perish by the sword."


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Russia likes to speak endlessly about "self-determination", but how about Northern Caucasus which is under Russian jurisdiction despite attempts to gain independence? There is just as much hypocrisy on Russia's end as there is on the Wests' end.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Ukraine’s great unraveling, brought to you by corporate America

_Robert Bridge has worked as a journalist in Russia since 1998. Formerly the editor-in-chief of The Moscow News, Bridge is the author of the book, “Midnight in the American Empire_.” 

Published time: April 14, 2014 14:24 








[/URL][/IMG]
_Kiev on 20 February, 2014 (RIA Novosti / Andrey Stenin_)

To the casual consumer of McMedia happy meals, the Ukrainian crisis is a consequence of Russia’s yearning for empire lost, a Nazi-style Anschluss that began with Crimea and will end, judging by the big-font hysteria, somewhere near Alaska.

*For the more sober-minded observer, however, whose worldview has not been vandalized by misguided Russophobic inclinations, the reality of the situation is a bit more complicated*. 

In December 2013, then-Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovich made a decision that seems radical only because we have been trained to believe that national indebtedness to foreign institutions is the natural order of things: After telling EU's officials that he intended to sign the European association agreement, Yanukovich sent shock waves across the Western world when he suddenly reversed his decision (Until now, only Iceland has had the courage to say 'no' to western liberal reformers and their massive cash injections since the bottom fell out of the global economy in 2008). 

Why the change of heart? Because the now-deposed Ukrainian leader had no desire to sell his proud nation down the river. Yanukovich understood that *the harsh austerity measures demanded by the EU-IMF-NATO triumvirate would have served as a final death blow to the Ukrainian people, already suffering from many years of high unemployment and a withering economy. 
*
*Yanukovich decided instead to accept a no-strings-attached loan of $15 billion from neighboring Russia - interest-free!* Considering the ongoing meltdown of EU member states, most notably in Greece, which continues to stagnate despite a massive $145 billion injection in 2010, Kiev’s volte-face toward Russia was not without merit. 

However, that is not the way the Masters of the Western Universe, who wish to control the debt of nations, saw the situation. 

No sooner had Yanukovich adjusted his reading glasses to read the fine-print conditions on the EU-IMF agreement, *US Senator John McCain was in central Kiev, agitating the local populace with boilerplate promises of a debt-free future while shaking hands and kissing so many babies you’d think he was running for the Ukrainian presidency*. 

“Ukraine will make Europe better, and Europe will make Ukraine better,” McCain told a confused crowd in Kiev. “We are here to support your just cause, the sovereign right of Ukraine to determine its own destiny freely and independently. And the destiny you seek lies in Europe.” 








[/URL][/IMG]
_John McCain (Allison Shelley / Getty Images / AFP_) 

*Later, Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland was in Kiev, just as anti-government protests had reached fevered pitch*, handing out pastries to Ukraine’s protesters and riot police. While there was no word on the expiration date of the bakery goods, the idea of the American superpower acting self-righteous and charitable in the middle of a foreign nation’s internal crisis – triggered in no small part by Washington’s own manipulations – was unappetizing to say the least. 

So how does one explain Washington’s extreme diplomatic overtures in Kiev? Is it simply a case that the United States, as the self-designated champion of human rights and cake distribution, is merely acting as an impartial advocate on behalf of an internal political struggle (with emphasis on the word 'internal')? History would suggest otherwise. 

It is no secret that the United States has been angling for a strategic advantage in Eastern Europe since the end of World War II, *with special attention focused on strategically important Ukraine*, which could serve as a future bridgehead into Central Asia and beyond. In an interview with Kiev’s Weekly Digest (May, 2004) Zbigniew Brzezinski, Washington’s premier adviser on geopolitical strategy, emphasized the importance of Russia's neighbor. 

Ukraine “is certainly not a pawn; it may not be a queen, but it certainly is an important element on the chessboard – one of the most important.” 

We could probably agree that one does not normally allude to the ultimate game of strategy when discussing democracy and people power. Clearly, Brzezinski and his worn-out chess board was making an unmistakable reference to Ukraine's military importance to the United States. *It was not, of course, a call for humanitarian action*. 

So what conclusion should Russian strategists draw from such analysis, *especially as NATO continues its mechanized march toward Russia’s border, and despite pledges made to Moscow following the collapse of the Soviet Union that the military bloc would not “move an inch” beyond Germany?* 

*Reset ‘Nyet’* 

Washington’s disingenuous approach to the so-called “reset,” an Obama-conceived initiative used to camouflage America’s militaristic designs in the region, was finally revealed by NATO’s blunt refusal to permit Russia's participation in the US missile defense shield project in Eastern Europe – a stone’s throw from the Russian border. 

Moscow warned if NATO failed to agree on some sort of mutual agreement with Russia over the ambitious project, which has all the potential to destroy the fragile strategic balance in the region, another arms race could occur on the continent. Yet as incredible as it may seem, NATO seems willing to alienate Russia over an unproven system allegedly designed to neutralize an unproven enemy (Iran) while risking an all-out nuclear-tipped arms race. 

Judging by the relative insanity of NATO's decision, which ignores the necessity of bilateral cooperation in the war on terror, to which Russia is certainly no stranger, *the only thing the “reset” achieved was to sow dissent and disagreement between the former Cold War foes*. The Ukrainian crisis was merely the final straw on the back of an overloaded camel. 








[/URL][/IMG]
_Kiev on 20 February, 2014 (RIA Novosti / Andrey Stenin_)

However, one nation’s crisis is another corporation’s windfall. *Indeed, developments in Ukraine certainly spell big bucks for America’s bloated defense industry*, which has used the Ukraine crisis in general, and the Crimean “annexation” in particular, to warn Capitol Hill of Russia’s “return to imperialism.” *Never mind that Russia has not violated the territorial integrity of a single foreign country - without being attacked first, as was the case with Georgia - since the collapse of the Soviet Union*. 

“Everybody in the Pentagon and in the defense industry is using the Ukraine crisis as a warning for why the department needs to spend more on military technology,” Loren Thompson, chief operating officer for the Lexington Institute, told AP. 

Military advantage, however, is not the only reason for Washington imposing itself on Kiev. *To understand the full picture, it is only necessary to consider the corporate circus that US Congress has become, in which the “people’s representatives” now take their marching orders from boardrooms across corporate America*. 

Consider, for example, efforts by the American Petroleum Institute to take advantage of Kiev’s chaos. 

“We’ve just had a consistent drumbeat going since the beginning of last year,” Erik Milito, API’s director of industry operations, told Bloomberg. “We just kept doing it, and this became a more heightened debate during the whole Ukraine situation.” 

Milito said the message from API, whose members include the likes of Chevron and Exxon Mobil, was not lost upon Democrat and Republican members of Congress. 

“It’s a common thing when there’s a crisis for companies to see opportunity, and they will use advocacy to pursue their interests,” said James Thurber, director of the Center for Congressional and Presidential Studies at American University in Washington. 

This begs the obvious question: *Is the United States purposefully provoking crises*, like the one presently ripping Ukraine apart by the seams, in order to advance itself not only militarily in the region (after all, EU membership de facto implies NATO membership as well), but to quell the inordinate appetite of American corporations? 

Judging by recent revelations on the part of Russia regarding the work of NGOs and particular government agencies, that is a very strong likelihood. 

In September 2012, Russia’s Foreign Ministry informed the US Agency for International Development (USAID) that, after operating on the territory of Russia for 20 years, it would no longer be welcome. 

According to the Foreign Ministry, USAID was attempting to manipulate the election processes in the country. 

“The character of the agency's work … did not always comply with the declared aims of cooperation in bilateral humanitarian cooperation,” the Foreign Ministry said on its website. “We are talking about issuing grants in an attempt to affect the course of the political processes in the country, including elections at different levels and institutions in civil society." 

Russian civil society has become fully mature, the Foreign Ministry said, and did not need any "external direction." 

*Over the last 20 years, USAID has pumped $1.8 billion into various Ukrainian projects*, which its website says help “Ukrainians experience increased political freedoms, stronger transparency guarantees, and more economic and social opportunities.” 

*How much that massive investment of US taxpayer dollars was used – knowingly or otherwise – to spread the seed of dissent revolution in Ukraine is anybody’s guess*. But one thing is certain: the crisis in Ukraine has proven that the American empire is a borderless, virtual construct, which needn’t physically dominate a territory to possess it. 

*Like a fly-by-night vampire, the EU-IMF-NATO troika only requires an invitation to enter and operate inside of a country before the bloodletting, bank loans and corporate takeovers can begin*. Eventually, the debtor country is stuffed into an ill-fitting NATO uniform and becomes a mere shadow of its former self. 

*Like so many international “patients” that came and went before, Ukraine will never be the same again*. 

_The statements, views and opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of RT.
_


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

This is a photo of pro-Russian forces seizing a building in Kramatorsk. 

They seem very well _organised_ to me. I think we are expected to believe these militants have no external funding and are merely acting on their own accord.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Despot said:


> This is a photo of pro-Russian forces seizing a building in Kramatorsk.
> 
> They seem very well _organised_ to me. I think we are expected to believe these militants have no external funding and are merely acting on their own accord.


But... but... They're just unarmed, peaceful protesters.

Not surprised that Batko didn't react to the news report that I posted earlier on this page.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Putin is now urging Obama to exert his 'influence' in Ukraine to avert further bloodshed. This comes months after continuous denunciations from the Kremlin of Western powers being too evasive and not minding their own business. Likewise, Obama is asking Putin to do the same, despite constant Western criticism of Russian intrusion in Ukraine. Can this get anymore farcical? 

Putin is asking Obama to embed stability. Obama is asking Putin to embed stability. This is amusing because both are the ones who have created the instability, whether it be through Kerry's $5 billion in economic aid or Putin's annexation of the Crimea which brought the crisis of Ukraine to a new level. Neither of these 'leaders' care about the welfare of the Ukrainian people. This is all about advancing geopolitical interests at the expense of a crumbling state.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> But... but... They're just unarmed, peaceful protesters.
> 
> Not surprised that Batko didn't react to the news report that I posted earlier on this page.


What is with this "peaceful protestor" sarcasm? The time for peaceful protest against the junta in Kiev was over long ago. I never said that the patriots taking over the cities in the east were "peaceful" protestors.

However, the fact that the police and authorities in the eastern regions have not put up much of a fight has made the recent take overs relatively bloodless. 

Apparently, most of the authorities in the regions do not support the Kiev junta.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> What is with this "peaceful protestor" sarcasm? The time for peaceful protest against the junta in Kiev was over long ago. I never said that the patriots taking over the cities in the east were "peaceful" protestors.
> 
> However, the fact that the police and authorities in the eastern regions have not put up much of a fight has made the recent take overs relatively bloodless.
> 
> ...


Of course, because when armed forces come to you and you don't have a gun, you don't fight them, do you?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

KIEV JUNTA BEGINS OPERATIONS AGAINST PATRIOTS IN EASTERN UKRAINE

*CITIZENS BLOCK JUNTA TANK*






*DEFENDERS OF SLAVYANSK PREPARE FOR THE JUNTA ATTACK*


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Of course, because when armed forces come to you and you don't have a gun, you don't fight them, do you?


Police without weapons??? Nice try. Keep stretching, Tomas! 

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Police without weapons??? Nice try. Keep stretching, Tomas!
> 
> - Mike


I'm talking about the people in administration. In those cities where the separatists met the police administration buildings still stand.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> I'm talking about the people in administration. In those cities where the separatists met the police administration buildings still stand.


Government administration buildings are protected by the police. Obviously, the police in a dozen eastern Ukrainian cities didn't do any "protecting." 

It makes one wonder whose side they are on??? 

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Government administration buildings are protected by the police. Obviously, the police in a dozen eastern Ukrainian cities didn't do any "protecting."
> 
> It makes one wonder whose side they are on???
> 
> - Mike


Not on what side were the police, but who had more people. It's simple. Those who had more people, won.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

I think we'll see a Russian invasion in the coming weeks. I initially thought the pro-Russian forces would do it on their own and claim independance from Ukraine via. a referendum but this recent military operation is preventing that from happening.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

JUNTA ARMORED VEHICLE CREWS JOIN PATRIOTIC FORCES IN KRAMATORSK
12:36 GMT:








[/URL][/IMG]
_Men wearing military fatigues ride on armoured personnel carriers displaying the Russian flag(APC) in the eastern Ukrainian city of Kramatorsk on April 16, 2014. (AFP Photo_)

Around 60 soldiers manning Ukrainian armored vehicles sent to Kramatorsk to carry out military operations against anti-government protesters have switched sides and joined the local self-defense forces, RIA Novosti reports, citing the self-defense forces. 

“We’ve seen here that these are neither separatists nor terrorists, but ordinary local residents, with whom we are not going to go into battle,” one of the defecting soldiers said.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Batko10 said:


> JUNTA ARMORED VEHICLE CREWS JOIN PATRIOTIC FORCES IN KRAMATORSK
> 12:36 GMT:
> 
> 
> ...



THREE MORE JUNTA TANKS SWITCH SIDES IN SLAVYANSK!
11:30 GMT:

Three more Ukrainian armored vehicles switched sides in the Donetsk Region, according to RIA Novosti. The vehicles came to the center of Slavyansk, took down their Ukrainian flags and handed their weapons to self-defense squads. 

“We decided not to be at war with the people and not to defend authorities like this,” members of the crews explained.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

AS THE JUNTA INVASION OF THE EAST IS STALLED THE SOUTH BEGINS TO RISE UP! / ODESSA DECLARES ITSELF A "PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC"

16.04.2014

*“From this day on, the Odessa region is declared the Odessa People's Republic where the power belongs only to the people who live there. Tomorrow at 4pm [13:00 GMT] Odessa should be ground to a halt! Literally! Your task at the indicated time is to block the transport connections indicated on the map with your cars, pedestrians, go to the zebra crossings and stand there. Create as many traffic jams across the city as possible,”* the Odessa Anti-Maidan movement website addressed the city’s residents.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE STAND UP TO KIEV'S FASCIST JUNTA!*






*ARMORED UNITS NOT RUSSIAN, BUT UKRAINIAN ARMY UNITS THAT SWITCHED TO PATRIOT'S SIDE!
*





*US MISCALCULATED THE WILL OF THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE WHEN IT BACKED THE FASCIST MAIDAN MOB.*


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Yes, they are real Ukrainians, real patriots of their country. That's why they are burning Ukrainian flags and replacing them with Russian flags.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

I wonder if Putin will eventually play the 'self-determination' card in Estonia or Latvia? Or maybe he will just orchestrate some more pro-Russian forces to destabilise Russian-speaking regions, much like Batko persistently accuses the West for?


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Despot said:


> I wonder if Putin will eventually play the 'self-determination' card in Estonia or Latvia? Or maybe he will just orchestrate some more pro-Russian forces to destabilise Russian-speaking regions, much like Batko persistently accuses the West for?


Actually there are a lot of Russians in Estonia.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

The Manowarrior said:


> Actually there are a lot of Russians in Estonia.


Indeed. Pretext is already there, providing Putin has those aspirations.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

It turns out the pro-Russian forces in Crimea before the referendum took place were, indeed, Russian troops and not 'patriots', despite all the Putinsts denying it endlessly. If Putin went to these lengths in the Crimea, I am pretty sure we can all solidify that some of the 'anti-govt' protesters in eastern Ukraine are also Russian troops.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Funny, because I watched it live and answering another question, he said that there were NO Russian troops in Ukraine.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

The Manowarrior said:


> Funny, because I watched it live and answering another question, he said that there were NO Russian troops in Ukraine.


But RT won't show that.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Despot said:


> But RT won't show that.


Funny too, because I thought RT only report real things as they happen and don't omit the facts.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> It turns out the pro-Russian forces in Crimea before the referendum took place were, indeed, Russian troops and not 'patriots', despite all the Putinsts denying it endlessly. If Putin went to these lengths in the Crimea, I am pretty sure we can all solidify that some of the 'anti-govt' protesters in eastern Ukraine are also Russian troops.


Yes, Russian troops were in Crimea before the referendum - *20 years before the referendum*. According to the leasing treaty with the legitimate government of Ukraine up to *25,000 Russian troops* were allowed to be on the peninsula.

You can assume all you like. Show us some proof that Russia has armed troops in Ukraine. We have proof that *the CIA is in Ukraine *- *their head was just there giving out money and orders to the Yatsiniuk, Turchenov and the other stooges of the U.S. puppet government in Kiev*.

As Putin mentioned in the other video, *how come no one is making Right Sector and Svoboda put down their weaons???* Maybe, because Right Sector and Svoboda are integral parts of the Kiev junta.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Yes, Russian troops were in Crimea before the referendum - *20 years before the referendum*. According to the leasing treaty with the legitimate government of Ukraine up to *25,000 Russian troops* were allowed to be on the peninsula.
> 
> You can assume all you like. Show us some proof that Russia has armed troops in Ukraine. We have proof that *the CIA is in Ukraine *- *their head was just there giving out money and orders to the Yatsiniuk, Turchenov and the other stooges of the U.S. puppet government in Kiev*.
> 
> ...


They were allowed there, so what? Still the question is, what they were doing there? Camping? If you think that the referendum was clean, you probably also think that elections in North Korea were real. And I'm not surprised to see you not reacting to Putin'g contradicting statements that he made on the same day on the same show.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*WHILE THE PEOPLE IN EAST AND SOUTH FIGHT FOR THEIR FREEDOM, NEO-NAZI WESTERN UKRAINIAN THUGS AGAIN DEMONSTRATE HOW DEMOCRACY WORKS IN THE U.S. BACKED JUNTA GOVERNMENT. IT IS OBVIOUS WHAT KIND OF PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS UKRAINE IS IN FOR!* 

Ukraine presidential candidates attacked in Kiev

Published time: April 15, 2014 03:39 

*Radicals have attacked two Ukrainian presidential candidates. One of them, Oleg Tsarev, was “brutally beaten*,” claimed the candidate’s press office. The radicals poured green antiseptic solution and flour on another candidate, Mikhail Dobkin.

*Oleg Tsarev was attacked after being trapped inside the ICTV media building following his appearance on the ‘Svoboda Slova’ chat show*, according to the statement released by Tsarev’s office. 

“It was with great difficulty that government’s security forces were able to recapture Oleg Tsarev from the angry mob. He was severely beaten and is in serious condition,” the press office said. 

The video embedded below shows the scene of the alleged mob attack, although Tsarev himself is not visible through the crowd.





"_Animals from Right Sector beat Oleg Tsarev_" 

Earlier, there were reports of the entire building being surrounded by unidentified gunmen with Tsarev trapped inside and his car attacked, including slashed tires. 

Following the attack, Tsarev said that he would not withdraw his candidacy from the presidential election under any circumstances, his press office stated. 

“Peaceful dialogue between the authorities and all of the people in the country, the search for compromise and understanding are the only ways to solve the political crisis,” Interfax quoted the politician as saying in the lobby of the General Prosecutor's Office Tuesday night. 

However, despite claims by Tsarev’s press service that the presidential candidate was “in critical condition,” Tsarev appeared in front of cameras. In the video, spread via Youtube, he was able to give an interview. 

The Ukrainian Prosecutor General’s office has opened a criminal case into the violent attack on the presidential candidate, the office reported. 

According to the office’s statement, the case has been launched over charges of hooliganism. 

*United Nation’s Secretary General Ban Ki-moon condemned the attacks on the presidential candidates*, the organization’s spokesperson Stephane Dujarric said, as cited by RIA Novosti. 

Konstantin Dolgov, the Russian Foreign Ministry’s commissioner for human rights, noted earlier *a “shy silence” from Western countries towards the attack on Tsarev*. 

“The Maidan tank democracy is in full swing, the extremists remained unpunished,” Dolgov tweeted. “Typical double standards.” 

According to Dolgov, Kiev coup-appointed government used ‘tank’ force against people of south-eastern Ukrainian cities whose rights should be protected by this vey government. 

“Is it an inclusive political dialogue and a constitutional reform?” he asked on Twitter. 

*Around the same time, unidentified individuals blocked and damaged the vehicle carrying another presidential candidate, Mikhail Dobkin, while attacking and injuring his aides on their way to that same talk show*. 

Dobkin admitted to the attack during a live phone interview later on the show. Other media reported that the radicals poured green antiseptic solution and flour on Dobkin. 

*The two candidates were scheduled to join a third presidential candidate, Yulia Tymoshenko*, on the talk show. 

Both Dobkin and Tsarev submitted their candidacies for the presidential election as self-nominees. Ukraine’s presidential elections are scheduled to be held on May 25, with twenty three registered candidates taking part in the campaign. 

Dobkin is a businessman-turned-politician and the former governor of the eastern Kharkov region. *During his presidential bid he vowed to focus on reviving diplomatic relations with Russia, if elected*. 

*Tsarev is also from the eastern part of Ukraine *and was a Dnepropetrovsk businessman and People's Deputy of Ukraine elected for the Party of Regions. He was later expelled from the party on April 7. 

*This is not the first time Tsarev was attacked in recent days*. There were reports of him being caught up in the clashes in Odessa on Friday, as well as, beaten and pelted with eggs in Nikolaev by members of the Right Sector, according to RIA Novosti.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> Yes, Russian troops were in Crimea before the referendum - *20 years before the referendum*. According to the leasing treaty with the legitimate government of Ukraine up to *25,000 Russian troops* were allowed to be on the peninsula.
> 
> You can assume all you like. Show us some proof that Russia has armed troops in Ukraine. We have proof that *the CIA is in Ukraine *- *their head was just there giving out money and orders to the Yatsiniuk, Turchenov and the other stooges of the U.S. puppet government in Kiev*.
> 
> ...


I am well aware of the treaty. I am talking about, what was, the highly conspicuous actions of the supposedly unmarked pro-Russian forces in Crimea. Before the referendum took place, the Kremlin, alongside various other sources, claimed the pro-Russian forces who seized the area _were not_ Russian troops. They were merely patriots acting on their own accord, and the Kremlin had absolutely nothing to do with it. Well, now we know that is an arrant fabrication, as the pro-Russian forces were, indeed, Russian troops, and these armed protesters who seized the Crimea were orchestrated by the Kremlin.

I find it bewildering that you are asking me for proof. You've accused the West of meticulously engineering this coup right from the start without providing _anything_ to substantiate your assertion other than pure conjecture. People often cite the Victoria Nuland phone call as their 'evidence', but I think you know as well as I do that the leaked message, in no way, supports your contention. The call does tell us the US is economically funding the coup, but it in no way tells us it intricately designed the coup. There's a distinct difference between the two. Also, NGO's investing $5 billion in Ukrainian institutions over the last ten years is largely inert, as well. The West have been known for exercising their presence into Eastern Europe after the dissolution of the USSR. Even I can admit this. But there is honestly nothing out there that advances your argument. That is, the coup being 'planned'. I agree it is 'supported' by Western powers (i.e., Kerry giving billions of dollars in foreign aid to the government), and there is no doubt the West magnified the protests in hope to install a permanent pro-Western government, but designed? Planned? Constructed? 

I just look at the pro-Russian forces in eastern Ukraine and say to myself how can they _not_ be Russian troops. Yes, many are normal protesters, but some are very diligent in their seizing of government buildings, and arrantly proficient in their conduct. Logic also supports it. Putin wants to annex eastern Ukraine to prevent NATO expansion and Western hegemony. He also wants the land so he can freely exercise his naval infrastructure along the Black Sea peninsula. Putin, to me, has clearly funded pro-Russian forces in effort to destabilise the region, magnify its severity, and give the Kremlin ostensible reason to invade and annex. Then again, can I prove it with impartial evidence? No. At least I can admit that other than you who condones the West-engineered coup theory as fact.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Mike, can you prove that there is CIA in Ukraine and the they are supporting the uprising, current government. Do you have any arguments, facts to back it up?


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

The Manowarrior said:


> Mike, can you prove that there is CIA in Ukraine and the they are supporting the uprising, current government. Do you have any arguments, facts to back it up?


It is true that CIA director John Brennan visited Kiev, but for what reasons remain ambiguous at this stage. Of course, though, and not surprisingly, various people automatically jump to the preconceived conclusion that just because the CIA is in Ukraine, it means they are somehow the 'mastermind' behind the entire coup. Nobody even bothers assessing options anymore.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> Russian troops, and these armed protesters who seized the Crimea were orchestrated by the Kremlin.
> 
> People often cite the Victoria Nuland phone call as their 'evidence', *but I think you know as well as I do that the leaked message*, in no way, supports your contention.
> 
> ...



First and foremost, *ALL* of the events in Ukraine today are the result of the insurgency and overthrow of the *ELECTED* government by neo-Nazi Western Ukrainian shock troops of the present ruling junta in Kiev.

Putin said that in his Q&A session that there was no "plan" in Crimea, i.e. nothing was orchestrated. They operated "on the go" based on the changing situation to protect the citizens of Crimea and allow them to have a free referendum. 

There was* NO* invasion. Do you think that Right Sector and Svoboda would not have gone into Crimea to terrorize people not to vote or to vote how the junta wanted them to? It would seem like the people of Crimea are perfectly happy with how things turned out there and are breathing alot freer now that they are not under the yoke of the Kiev junta. 

Nuland's phone call, McCain's meetings in Kiev with Right Sector and Svoboda, U.S. funneling $5 billion into the country, your admission that the West magnified the protests all point to Washington engineering the coup d'etat as they have done in sovereign nations throughout the world over the last two decades. 

If Washington didn't engineer the coup, then it jumped in very early to support the illegal overthrow of the *ELECTED* government and is now supporting the illegal junta ruling the country. 

The real height of hyposcrisy is that the U.S. supports violent overthrow of an *ELECTED* government, but condemns people who refuse to submit themselves to the junta that overthrew the legal government.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

FULL VIDEO OF PUTIN'S Q & A SESSION APRIL 17, 2014






The annual special Direct Line with Vladimir Putin was broadcast live by Channel One, Rossiya-1 and Rossiya-24 TV channels, and Mayak, Vesti FM and Radio Rossii radio stations.

DIRECT LINE PROGRAMME HOST KIRILL KLEYMENOV: Good afternoon,

You are watching Direct Line with President Vladimir Putin. Here in the studio today are Maria Sittel and Kirill Kleymenov.

DIRECT LINE PROGRAMME HOST MARIA SITTEL: 

Good afternoon,

I could say that we are having today yet another conversation with Vladimir Putin, however the situation is different since the country we are talking to now has changed. After waiting for 23 years, since the breakup of the Soviet Union, Crimea and Sevastopol have joined Russia. For this reason, every question today will be directly or indirectly related to Crimea.

We will discuss a number of issues today, including healthcare, army, taxes, agriculture and, naturally, Ukraine. There is no doubt that we’ll discuss developments in Ukraine’s southeast and the genocide that was unleashed in this region. Ukraine is sliding into civil war.

KIRILL KLEYMENOV: Our colleagues Olga Ushakova, Valeriya Korableva, Tatyana Stolyarova and Dmitry Shchugorev will assist us during today’s broadcast, while Tatyana Remizova and Anna Pavlova are working in the call and SMS processing centre.

I would like to remind you that you can watch us live on Channel One, as well as on Rossiya-1 and Rossiya-24 TV channels, and on Russia’s Public Television channel, where interpretation into sign language will be available for people with impaired hearing. Radio listeners can join our conversation on Mayak, Vesti FM and Radio Rossii stations.

We are live with President Vladimir Putin.

TATYANA REMEZOVA: Good afternoon, colleagues! Hello, Mr President.

Our call centre has been working for a week, and we will continue to take calls during the Direct Line broadcast. You can call us at the toll-free number 8 (800) 200-4040 or send text messages to 04040. There is a separate Moscow number, which is also toll free, for residents of the Republic of Crimea and Sevastopol: +7 (495) 539-2442. People from other countries can call us at the number you can see on the screen.

Over the past eight days, our call centre has received over two million questions, or 17,500 per minute – we are definitely going to set a new record – and many callers just say, “Thank you for Crimea.”

ANNA PAVLOVA: Good afternoon. I’d like to remind you that this year you can send video questions to the President from your PC or any mobile device. Our operators continue to accept your messages on the websites www.moskva-putinu.ru and москва-путину.рф. There is still time to record and send your questions.

I’d like to tell you that this is the first time that this programme will be broadcast with a sign-interpreted version on our website. These new options have been introduced to increase the audience.

Maria, Kirill, back to you.

KIRILL KLEYMENOV: So, about Ukraine. Events are unfolding there with an incredible and sometimes alarming speed. Indeed, two months ago, during the Olympic Winter Games on February 17, no one thought that Crimea would reunite with Russia and that people in eastern Ukraine would stop armoured convoys sent from Kiev with their bare hands.

Mr Putin, the first question is perfectly obvious: What do you think about the events underway in the Lugansk and Donetsk regions?

PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA VLADIMIR PUTIN: Before I answer your question, I’d like to go back a little to review recent events in Ukraine. As you know, President Yanukovych refused to sign the Association Agreement with the EU. No, he did not refuse to sign it, but said that he could not sign it on the EU conditions, because it would dramatically worsen the socioeconomic situation in Ukraine and affect Ukrainians. Yanukovych said that he needed more time to analyse the document and to discuss it together with Europeans. This provoked public unrest that eventually culminated in an unconstitutional coup, an armed seizure of power. Some liked it, and some did not. People in eastern and southeastern regions of Ukraine were worried about their future and the future of their children, because they saw a rapid growth of nationalist sentiments, heard threats and saw that [the new authorities] wanted to invalidate some of the ethnic minorities’ rights, including the rights of the Russian minority. On the other hand, this description is relative, because Russians are native persons in Ukraine. But an attempt was made to invalidate all decisions regarding the use of the native language. This alarmed people, of course. What happened next?

Instead of starting a dialogue with these people, Kiev appointed new governors – oligarchs and billionaires – to these regions. People are suspicious of oligarchs as it is. They believe that they earned their riches by exploiting people and embezzling public property, and these oligarchs have been appointed to head their regions. This only added to the public discontent. People chose their own leaders, but what did the new government do to them? They were thrown into prison. Meanwhile, nationalist groups did not surrender their weapons, but threatened to use force in the eastern regions. In response, people in the east started arming themselves. Refusing to see that something was badly wrong in the Ukrainian state and to start a dialogue, the government threatened to use military force and even sent tanks and aircraft against civilians. It was one more serious crime committed by the current Kiev rulers.

I hope that they will see that they are moving into a deep hole, and that they are pulling their country along. In this sense, the talks that will start today in Geneva are very important, because I believe that we should get together to think about ways out of this crisis and to offer people a real, not sham, dialogue. The current Kiev authorities have travelled to the eastern regions, but who do they talk to there? They talk to their appointees. There’s no need to go to Donbass for this, because they can summon them to Kiev for a meeting. They should talk with people and with their real representatives, with those whom people trust. They should release the arrested [opponents], help people to express their opinion in an organised manner, suggest new leaders and start a dialogue.

People in the eastern regions are talking about federalisation, and Kiev has at long last started talking about de-centralisation. But what do they mean? To be able to understand what they mean, they should sit down at the negotiating table and search for an acceptable solution. Order in the country can only be restored through dialogue and democratic procedures, rather than with the use of armed force, tanks and aircraft.

KIRILL KLEYMENOV: So far the dialogue has started between diplomats: top diplomats from the United States, Russia, the European Union and Ukraine are meeting in Geneva at this very moment. Russia is represented by Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov. Could you outline Russia’s stance at the talks in just a few words?

VLADIMIR PUTIN: I just did exactly that. We feel strongly that this should not be a sham dialogue between representatives of the authorities, but a dialogue with the people to find the compromise I was talking about.

KIRILL KLEYMENOV: How would you respond to the statements coming from both Kiev and the West about Russia being behind the protests in eastern Ukraine, allegedly staged and financed by “Moscow’s hand”? They even claim that certain Russian armed units are there.

VLADIMIR PUTIN: Nonsense. There are no Russian units in eastern Ukraine – no special services, no tactical advisors. All this is being done by the local residents, and the proof of that is the fact that those people have literally removed their masks. So I told my Western partners, “They have nowhere to go, and they won’t leave. This is their land and you need to negotiate with them.”

MARIA SITTEL: I’m sure we’ll get back to the events in the southeast later in the course of this conversation. Now let’s talk about Crimea and how you took the decision. You never gave as much as a hint about Crimea over the course of your political career. You must have thought about it, but you never even mentioned Crimea in private talks.

So how was this decision made? Can you tell us again? Was this opposed by any members of your team? What was your assessment of the possible risks, from international sanctions to the civil war we are watching unfold now?

VLADIMIR PUTIN: The most obvious risk was that the Russian speaking population was threatened and that the threats were absolutely specific and tangible. This is what made Crimean residents, the people who live there, think about their future and ask Russia for help. This is what guided our decision.

I said in my recent speech in the Kremlin that Russia had never intended to annex any territories, or planned any military operations there, never. Quite to the contrary, we were going to build our relations with Ukraine based on current geopolitical realities. But we also thought, and have always hoped, that all native Russians, the Russian-speaking people living in Ukraine, would live in a comfortable political environment, that they would not be threatened or oppressed.

But when this situation changed, and Russians in Crimea were facing exactly that, when they began raising the issue of self-determination – that’s when we sat down to decide what to do. It was at this exact moment that we decided to support Crimeans, and not 5, 10 or 20 years ago.

I discussed this problem with the Security Council members, and no one objected. In fact all of them supported my position. And I’m more than happy now that all the steps in the action plan were taken in a very precise manner, quickly, professionally and resolutely.

KIRILL KLEYMENOV: I would say the way the plan was executed was unique and unparalleled in history.

Mr Putin, we who live in Russia are very well aware of how things are done here. But indeed, this was done very quickly – a complicated referendum was organised in the shortest time possible, security issues addressed, and Ukrainian units disarmed – that really gave the impression of a long-planned and prepared action.

VLADIMIR PUTIN: No. This had not been pre-planned or prepared. It was done on the spot, and we had to play it by ear based on the situation and the demands at hand. But it was all performed promptly and professionally, I have to give you that.

Our task was not to conduct a full-fledged military operation there, but it was to ensure people’s safety and security and a comfortable environment to express their will. We did that. But it would not have been possible without the Crimeans’ own strong resolution.

Also, I must say that I didn’t add the concluding line to my Kremlin speech – about initiating a draft law on the inclusion of Crimea in the Russian Federation – until the very last day, last moment, because I was waiting for the referendum results. Polls and surveys are one thing, along with certain groups’ sentiments, but a referendum is the expression of the will of all the residents of an area. It was very important for me to know what their will was.

So when the voter turnout reached 83 percent and more than 96 percent supported Crimea’s inclusion in the Russian Federation, it became obvious that this decision was made by the majority, if not unanimously. In this situation, we couldn’t have done otherwise.

KIRILL KLEYMENOV: We’ll return to your Kremlin speech later. Now we have an opportunity to hear from Crimea.

MARIA SITTEL: Let’s invite Sevastopol, a hero city and a city of military glory – to join in our discussion. Our camera crew in Sevastopol, Dmitry Kaistro and Nikolai Dolgachyov.

DMITRY KAISTRO: Good afternoon, Mr President.

Good afternoon, colleagues and everybody who tuned in.

Sevastopol is indeed a city of Russian glory. There are hundreds of people gathered here, in the heart of the city, on Primorsky Boulevard. There are people from all walks of life, including navy and civilian personnel. These are people who voted for the accession of Crimea and Sevastopol to Russia.

We are currently working at two sites; this is not the only location. Another site is located very close to the sea. My colleague, Nikolai Dolgachyov, is working there.

NIKOLAI DOLGACHYOV: Here, on the very shore of the famous Sevastopol Bay where the Russian Black Sea Fleet is based and has been based for over 200 years, people have gathered from across Crimea. There are students and pensioners, veterans, workers, doctors and representatives of self-defence units. We are ready to talk.

Good afternoon, colleagues. Good afternoon, Mr President.

VLADIMIR PUTIN: Good afternoon.

NIKOLAI DOLGACHYOV: Primorsky Boulevard is indeed the heart of Sevastopol. The main symbols of the city are located right there. They are the Grafskaya Quay, a memorial to sunken ships, and Admiral Nakhimov Square, named after the navy man who fought and died as an infantry lieutenant. Local residents bring flowers to his statue every night. This is something you will see only here, in Sevastopol.

Sevastopol is a symbol, a fortress, a city full of special meaning for Russia’s destiny. And the people of Sevastopol have been contesting that meaning for a long 23 years, which concerns the right to speak Russian and the right to Russian values. They defended their rights. Almost the entire city voted in favour of joining Russia.

Today, Sevastopol residents came here to ask their questions. And they have many. Who would like to ask a question? Please introduce yourself.

LARISA MEDVEDEVA: The civilian personnel of the military units are very concerned about the fate of the Black Sea Fleet. For many of us, the fleet provides work and staff and is the only unique artillery repair plant. What will happen to the Black Sea Fleet and other state-owned enterprises?

VLADIMIR PUTIN: You probably know better than anyone else in Russia that we had certain agreements with Ukraine on upgrading the fleet. Unfortunately, those agreements were not diligently fulfilled, if at all. We had many problems with upgrading the fleet. I hope there will be no such problems anymore and that the major part of modern vessels and support ships will be transferred from Novorossiysk to Sevastopol. This will give us an opportunity to even save some money. This is the first point.

Secondly, Crimea has good shipbuilding and ship-repairing potential. Therefore, a substantial amount of this work will be carried out in Crimean shipyards. The Russian Defence Ministry has already placed an order worth 5 billion rubles with one of the shipyards. We undoubtedly will be increasing this potential of Crimea because currently it is not in high demand, it is idle. This will take time, but we will, of course, move in this direction.

Certainly, Sevastopol is a city of Russian naval glory, which every Russian citizen knows. We will be guided by this understanding.

DMITRY KAISTRO: Indeed, so many different people live in Sevastopol, people from different walks of life, with different backgrounds and of different ethnicities. And the tragedy that is now happening in Ukraine has upset too many people. Sevastopol residents talk about this too.

So I would like to give you the floor as I can see you have questions. You can address one of them to the President. 

QUESTION: Good afternoon Mr Putin. Ukraine is currently in a situation where there is a divide within families, not just between nations. I live in Sevastopol, while my sisters live in Ukraine. This is relevant for many Crimean families. Given the current state of affairs in Ukraine, we do not understand each other on many issues and have even become enemies. How can we remain friendly and brotherly nations?

VLADIMIR PUTIN: Make no mistake, this issue is highly relevant, and all of us are now guided by certain emotions. However, if we love and respect each other, we should find ways and means to understand each other. I think that it should be easier for a family than for a nation. But even if we are talking about relations between countries, I’m confident that we’ll find common ground with Ukraine and we’ll be there for one another. I hope that people in Ukraine will also understand that Russia could not do otherwise regarding Crimea.

There’s another issue I wanted to raise. I think it’ll be a recurrent one during today’s conversation. What I wanted to say is that if we respect each other, we should acknowledge that each of us has the right to make our own choices. People living in Ukraine should respect the choice made by Crimean residents. This is the first thing.

Second, Russia has always been close to Ukraine and will always remain closely related to it. I’m not talking about the assistance that Russia has been providing Ukraine for many long years, and I’m sure that we’ll get back to that issue. This assistance adds up to hundreds of billions of dollars. But this is not the point. The point is that we have extensive common interests. If we want to succeed, we must cooperate and join efforts. I’m confident that we will understand this despite all the emotional complications we’re seeing today.

MARIA SITTEL: Another question from Sevastopol, please.

NIKOLAI DOLGACHYOV: It is highly symbolic that people from across Crimea joined us here in Sevastopol. Many of them view reunification with Russia as the end of the third siege of this Hero City. There were two historic sieges, one lasted 349 days during the Crimean War, and the other lasted for 250 days during the Great Patriotic War. Many people regard the last 23 years as the third siege of the city and the whole region. Now that Crimea’s dream of reunification has been fulfilled, there are naturally a lot of questions regarding the future. Let’s find out what questions local residents have.

YEVGENY KOSTYLEV: I would like to start by thanking you, Mr President, on behalf of all the people of Crimea, for the resolve you showed in helping us reunite with our motherland. We can now proudly call ourselves Russian citizens.

That said, the self-proclaimed Ukrainian government is doing its outmost to make life intolerable for the people of Crimea. For example, almost all banks have left Crimea, which means that we now have problems with exchanging hryvnas and people can’t make payments and transfers. Specifically, pensioners, who have been saving for many years for a rainy day, can’t withdraw their pension savings because Ukrainian banks are ignoring their requests and legitimate interests.

Mr President, my question is the following: How does the Russian Government intend to resolve this issue?

VLADIMIR PUTIN: This is currently one of the most urgent issues that has yet to be addressed. There are other issues as well, as you know, such as power and water supply. However, the problems with banking have not been fully resolved. We will seek to reach common ground with our Ukrainian partners. These efforts have so far been unsuccessful. Oschadbank and Privatbank with its owner Mr Kolomoisky and the head of the Crimean branch Mr Finkelstein are not willing to meet us halfway. Hryvna circulation is limited, so we have no other choice but to accelerate the transition to the ruble. The solution is to open accounts for individuals and legal entities and establish a new banking network. Doing this the right way takes time. I think that it will take us about one month to open the required number of accounts, roll out the network and equip it with modern technology.

You have also mentioned pensioners and public sector employees. I’m also aware of certain economic setbacks, but it will all pass. We’ll overcome all challenges.

As you know, pensioners and public sector employees will have equal incomes with Russian pensioners and public sector employees, and the Russian Government has already adopted a resolution to this effect. In order to prevent any sharp increases in the inflation rate and prices, which is happening in Crimea anyway, we decided to enforce this on a step-by-step basis in four stages: incomes of Crimean pensioners and public sector employees are to rise by 25% from April 1, by another 25% from May 1, and then another 25% on June 1 and 25% more on July 1. During this period incomes of pensioners and public sector employees will surge. For pensioners, income will soar 100%, which means that the gap between pensions in Russian and Crimea… In Russia, pensioners receive twice as much as in Crimea. The average pension in Russia will be 11,600 rubles this year, while in Crimea it is about 5,500 rubles. The same goes for public sector employees, who earn twice or even two and a half times more in Russia. Russian military personnel – and it should be mentioned that a lot of local residents will be serving in Crimea – earn four times as much as in Crimea.

All in all, I’m confident, I hope and believe that people in Crimea will feel the economic benefits of joining Russia, not to mention Crimea’s economy, infrastructure development in the tourism and travel industries. We’ll get back to those issues.

MARIA SITTEL: Mr President, Sevastopol mothers are asking for some details. For example, there is a question from Elizaveta Maslennikova: “Will a mother in Crimea or Sevastopol expecting her second child be entitled to maternity capital?”

VLADIMIR PUTIN: Of course. We believe that all benefits and preferences that were available to Crimean residents in Ukraine should remain in place. If some programmes do not exist or didn’t exist in Russia, we will keep those preferences in place by providing additional subsidies to the regional budget. Furthermore, residents of Crimea and Sevastopol will be able to benefit from all social norms and allocations that exist in Russia in accordance with applicable laws.

MARIA SITTEL: Thank you.

MARIA SITTEL: Sevastopol, one more question from you, please.

NIKOLAI DOLGACHYOV: There are a lot of people here. Please introduce yourself and ask your question.

QUESTION: Mr Putin, it is widely believed that Crimea is only good for vacationing and tourism. But what about our industry and agriculture? What steps will Russia take to develop all Crimea’s industries?

Another question: You promised to establish a free economic zone in Crimea. What will this mean for the average person?

VLADIMIR PUTIN: You are absolutely right that Crimea is associated with vacationing and tourism. But this isn’t the whole story. Crimea has very good industrial and agricultural potential and we’ll develop it. What does this consist of? There are viable businesses that require modernisation and additional investment, and we’ll certainly take care of that. I’ve mentioned shipbuilding and ship maintenance, but there are also other industrial centres and promising businesses. The infrastructure has fairly good development potential, including the port; there is an agricultural sector, and so on. Regrettably, agricultural output declined by 60 percent in 2013 in comparison to 1990. In 2013, Crimean agricultural enterprises produced only 40% of what had been their output in 1990. The agricultural sector also needs additional investment. There are many issues to be addressed. Rice farms, for example, use a lot of water, and water is currently a problem. This takes time and investment. We’ll take care of this as well. Regarding services, we shouldn’t forget that Crimea was always famous not only as a base for the Russian Black Sea Fleet but also as Russia’s and the USSR’s top health resort. We’ll develop this area as well. Regrettably, the holiday infrastructure, hotels and resorts have been decaying. Our specialists have inspected these businesses, recreation facilities, resorts and hotels, and have come to the conclusion that some of these, if not all, can’t be used under Russian sanitary and epidemiological standards.

When they asked how former vacationers could have put up with this sort of quality, they heard this odd – and shameful – answer: “It’s OK, we mostly had miners as guests here; it made no difference to them; they’d down half a glass of vodka and go to the beach.” But we can’t take this approach with Russian vacationers. This area will require additional investment as well. The free economic zone you mentioned is something that can provide Russian investors with certain privileges in order to encourage them to come to Crimea and Sevastopol and accelerate development.

Many local people have proposals of their own. I talked to Mr Alexei Chaly not too long ago and he suggested that we establish a development agency. We’ll certainly support this idea. I’m confident we’re on the right track and sure to achieve some positive and visible results.

MARIA SITTEL: Mr Putin, there is a fly in the ointment though. There are many SMS messages from people who are apprehensive that Crimea might lose its distinctiveness. They fear the arrival of big money, people who will put up hunting lodges and big castles, palaces and high fences where there used to be recreation areas and nature reserves, while neglecting to build a sewage system, which Crimea lacks to this day.

VLADIMIR PUTIN: There are enough castles and high fences there now. We’ve come face to face with this problem – regrettably. These palaces with fences mushroomed all over the place against the background of an astounding disregard for average holidaymakers. And the owners were the oligarchs or CEOs I mentioned earlier. All of this involved major violations of environmental legislation. I talked to Crimean leaders and the heads of Russia’s federal agencies today: we must do our best to approve timely decisions that end these development practices.

To be continued.

April 17, 2014, 15:55Moscow


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> They were allowed there, so what? Still the question is, what they were doing there? Camping? If you think that the referendum was clean, you probably also think that elections in North Korea were real. And I'm not surprised to see you not reacting to Putin'g contradicting statements that he made on the same day on the same show.


There is no reason to think that the Crimean referendum wasn't legitimate. There were no people protesting the results in Crimea - only hundreds of thousands of people in the streets celebrating being free of the Kiev junta.

If some Tatars decided to boycott the referendum that was their right. Even if they came out in force and voted againsts secession the results would have been close to 90% instead of 97%.

No, I don't believe elections in the DPRK are legitimate. But, I do believe that pro-U.S./NATO supporters love to throw up these types of ludicrous comparisons to influence the dumbed down people in the U.S. who can't even find Ukraine on a map!

- Mike


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## Boo Radley (May 21, 2011)

I see pro Russian militants in Donetsk are now trying to make Jews pay a registration fee and declare all the property they own or face deportation and their assets seized. Disgusting!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...-ordered-to-register-in-east-ukraine/7816951/


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Boo Radley said:


> I see pro Russian militants in Donetsk are now trying to make Jews pay a registration fee and declare all the property they own or face deportation and their assets seized. Disgusting!
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...-ordered-to-register-in-east-ukraine/7816951/


It certainly is disgusting. However, something like that is right up the alley of the Western Ukrainian ultra-nationalists who have sworn to "fight Jews and Russians until the day they die."

I was married in eastern Ukraine (Kharkov) and my son was born and christened there. While there are bigots everywhere, the eastern regions of Ukraine are not a hotbed of anti-semitism like Western Ukraine.

My guess is that these leaflets are part of disinformation propaganda printed by the Western Ukrainian controlled junta in Kiev. It is totally out of character for the eastern regions, but fits perfectly with Right Sector and Svoboda's ideology and the history of Western Ukraine, especially its history during WW II. 

The German Nazis used the Western Ukrainians not only as their policemen, prison camp guards, and soldiers. The Western Ukrainians were also their executioners pulling the switches to release the zyclon B gas to exterminate the Jews in the camps.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Anti-govt activists take control of TV tower in Donetsk region

Published time: April 17, 2014 19:38 








[/URL][/IMG]
_Supporters of the referendum on Ukraine's federalization are seen on barricades outside the building of the district department of internal affairs in the city of Slavyansk, Donetsk Region. (RIA Novosti_)

Anti-Maidan activists in south-eastern Ukraine have reportedly seized a TV tower broadcasting for the Donetsk region, cutting off some digital Ukrainian channels and replacing them with Russian ones.

According to Ukrainian media, several supporters of a federal Ukraine gained access to the territory of a radio-television center in the town of Slavyansk on Thursday afternoon. 

*The facility broadcasts to the cities of Slavyansk, Kramatorsk, Gorlovka and Makeyevka*.

Several Ukrainian channels were then reportedly replaced with Russian ones: Rossiya-24, Rossiya-1 and LifeNews. 

Slavyansk’s local TV channel, S-Plus, confirmed to RT that currently there is no digital broadcasting, while analog broadcasting is carrying on. 

“We received an official confirmation from Slavyansk Self-Defense that their people did seize the tower and have cut off digital broadcasting for now,” the channel’s representative said. 

Meanwhile, a local resident told RT that “Ukrainian channels are working as usual.” The resident added that the situation in the town is generally calm. 

Slavyansk Self-Defense press-secretary Stella Khorosheva also confirmed to RT that they “took the tower under control.” She said the move was aimed to “prevent sabotage and the elimination of the TV tower by those who are against us or who would want to use the current situation in the city.” She underlined that the building had not been “seized.” 

Commenting on whether the activists were planning to disconnect analog broadcasting as well, she said that many channels will stay on. 

“Maybe some Ukrainian channels will be replaced with Russian ones,” Khorosheva said. 

The press-secretary gave an assurance that even if some TV channels are not broadcast, it would only be a temporary situation. She added that the self-defense group was not planning any redundancies “because we need specialists.” 

“Our task is to provide stable life in the city,” the spokesperson concluded. 

There have also been reports of activists seizing a television center in Kramatorsk, another town in the Donetsk region. However, it was not immediately clear if that was a separate facility or the same TV tower reported about by Slavyansk media. 

*Following the February coup, the new Ukrainian authorities ordered all local cable operators to stop transmitting several Russian TV channels. The move was slammed as “repressive” by the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE)*. 

The decision also raised a wave of criticism among Russian speakers in Ukraine, many of whom criticize Ukrainian television as being biased and attempting to blame Moscow for the current crisis in the country. 

*In recent weeks, Ukrainian border guards have repeatedly denied entry to Russian journalists*. 

“*These facts are blatant violations of democratic freedoms and the Ukrainian people’s right for free information*,” Russian Senators said in a statement on Wednesday. “The Federation Council holds that any future violations of Russian journalists’ rights and restrictions of the Russian mass media’s activities in Ukraine are inadmissible and that the international community, in particular the representatives of the OSCE and international groups advocating press freedom, must at last adequately react to these violations.” 

*On Thursday, Ukrainian authorities imposed severe restrictions on Russian men aged between 16 and 60 entering Ukraine without their families*. They will only be allowed in if they have close relatives in the country or have an official invitation.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Batko10 said:


> It certainly is disgusting. However, something like that is right up the alley of the Western Ukrainian ultra-nationalists who have sworn to "fight Jews and Russians until the day they die."
> 
> I was married in eastern Ukraine (Kharkov) and my son was born and christened there. While there are bigots everywhere, the eastern regions of Ukraine are not a hotbed of anti-semitism like Western Ukraine.
> 
> ...


http://mashable.com/2014/04/17/pamphlets-jews-register-ukraine/
Pamphlets Urging Jews to Register in Ukraine Are Likely Fake

By Brian Ries/6 hours ago

Jewish groups, politicians, members of the media, White House advisors, the U.S. Secretary of State, and the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine are concerned over a pamphlet that says Jews in eastern Ukraine must register with the local pro-Russia militia forces.

*The pamphlet, which was handed to Jews who were leaving a Donetsk area synagogue by three unidentified men wearing ski masks and holding the flag of the Russian Federation*, contains an appeal addressed to "Ukraine citizens of Jewish nationality" that requests all people of Jewish descent report to local administrative building and register there.

It left many of the 15,000 Jews of Donetsk “shocked and hysterical,” the chief rabbi of the city told The Daily Beast, pointing out where one of the leaflets had been left on a tree outside his synagogue on Oktiabskaya Street.

Ben Rhodes, President Obama's deputy national security adviser, says the reports are "chilling, outrageous and must be universally condemned." U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, speaking on Thursday, said, "In the year 2014 after all of the miles traveled and all of the journey of history this is not just intolerable, it’s grotesque." 

Grotesque, yes. Condemned, definitely. *But some are questioning its authenticity*.

*The man whose signature graces the pamphlet says it's not a real document*; it's just agitprop that was handed out by "some idiots" who were hoping to create a conflict and then "blame the attack on separatists" in the region.

*Denis Pushilin, the so-called “people’s governor" of Donetsk, told local reporters, "Some idiots yesterday were giving out these flyers in targeted areas.*" He criticized the website that is being sourced by media outlets, and denied his organization was behind the stunt. *It's likely the work of provocateurs*.

*The document was originally posted by Ukrainian website novosti.dn.ua, and then picked up by USA Today, the Israeli website Ynet News, and a stream of reporters who followed up with tweets that furthered the troubling report*.

If it were real, the pamphlet would be a troubling sign that a new phase of anti-semitic fascism in the region nearly 60 years since the Soviet liberation of Auschwitz. 

*And its true that Ukraine's Right Sector includes anti-semites and extreme nationalists*.

But in a statement sent to Mashable on Thursday afternoon, *the Anti-Defamation League questioned its authenticity*, while condemning the "cynical" messaging it contained.

"The ADL today condemned the appearance of anti-Semitic fliers in Donetsk, Ukraine, and called on all parties involved in the political conflicts in Ukraine to refrain from 'cynical and politically manipulative' exploitation of anti-Semitism," said Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director.

"*We are skeptical about the flier’s authenticity*, but the instructions clearly recall the Nazi era and have the effect of intimidating the local Jewish community," he said.

“We have seen a series of cynical and politically manipulative uses and accusations of anti-Semitism in Ukraine over the past year,” said Mr. Foxman. “The perpetrators and their targets are opposing politicians and political movements, but the true victims are the Jewish communities. We strongly condemn the anti-Semitic content, but also all attempts to use anti-Semitism for political purposes.”

NCSJ: Advocates on Behalf of Jews in Russia, Ukraine, the Baltic States & Eurasia, a group that advocates on behalf of the estimated 1.5 million Jews living in the 15 successor states of the former Soviet Union, also says it has contacted *the Donetsk Jewish community leaders, who are saying the official-looking flyers is intended to incite conflict*. 

"*NCSJ has contacted the Donetsk Jewish community leaders, who called the flyers a provocation. They said that all authorities have denied any connection to the flyers, and that Pushilin has denied authorship," the NCSJ says. "Several members of the community went to the Nationalities Commissioner, who repudiated the flyer, and said that the leaflets were distributed to cause unrest among the Jewish population."
*
*The group adds that similar leaflets have been distributed targeting international students at the local university*. 

We have contacted the State Department and will update this story when we hear back.

Have something to add to this story? Share it in the comments.

Topics: Mashable Must Reads, US & World, World


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

> First and foremost, ALL of the events in Ukraine today are the result of the insurgency and overthrow of the ELECTED government by neo-Nazi Western Ukrainian shock troops of the present ruling junta in Kiev.


First and foremost, _all_ coups and all _uprisings_ result in the displacement of an elected or internationally recognised government, so this statement holds little merit. Again, you're absentmindedly generalising this entire revolution as a neo-Nazi one. Is it true a far-right political party has loomed into power? Yes. But very seldom does any coup reflect the rationale as to why the uprising began in the first place, ideologically speaking. 



> Putin said that in his Q&A session that there was no "plan" in Crimea, i.e. nothing was orchestrated. They operated "on the go" based on the changing situation to protect the citizens of Crimea and allow them to have a free referendum.


And you believe him? There clearly was a 'plan'. Ukraine is being toppled by a pro-Western, mostly anti-Russian government, and Putin is looking to preserve his regional interests. This includes, of course, their naval fleet on the Black Sea peninsula which is also immensely imperative to their port in the Mediterranean. He orchestrated the Russian troops to stabilise and seize the Crimea from any external forces to make sure he does not lose this geopolitically decisive district. 



> Nuland's phone call, McCain's meetings in Kiev with Right Sector and Svoboda, U.S. funneling $5 billion into the country, your admission that the West magnified the protests all point to Washington engineering the coup d'etat as they have done in sovereign nations throughout the world over the last two decades.


I don't know how can you jump to such a credulous conclusion. You're talking about one nation intricately designing an uprising in another nation the resulted in the overthrow of a President and arrant disorder across many of its Western areas. The amount of devising required to pull this off is simply too ornate for me to consider plausible. It was not an engineered coup d'etat, but an economically supported one. The funding and global interest came _after_ the initial uprising ensued (i.e., denouncing Viktor Yanukovych for rejecting the EU deal). From there, the West funded, much like the cases in Syria or Egypt. 



> The real height of hyposcrisy is that the U.S. supports violent overthrow of an ELECTED government, but condemns people who refuse to submit themselves to the junta that overthrew the legal government.


I agree with this, but Russia are also exhibiting endless heights of hypocrisy, too. Let's not just defame the West here.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

> But some are questioning its authenticity.


Has it been proven to be a hoax like some have claimed?


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Switched sides, Mike. Yeah, switched sides.





Peaceful protesters, Mike. Yeah, peaceful protesters.









Yeah, all done so peacefully, without the use of force.

But all this, of course, was fabricated. Just anti-Russian propaganda. Everything that doesn't support or praise Russia is a fascist propaganda, right?


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

I will now use my peace making ability to end this conflict between these two groups

"STOP SHOOTING AT EACH OTHER AND GIVE EACH OTHER BACK THE BUILDINGS YOU "TOOK" YOU ASSHOLES"

24 hours from now I bet the conflict will be over


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

stevefox1200 said:


> I will now use my peace making ability to end this conflict between these two groups
> 
> "STOP SHOOTING AT EACH OTHER AND GIVE EACH OTHER BACK THE BUILDINGS YOU "TOOK" YOU ASSHOLES"
> 
> 24 hours from now I bet the conflict will be over


This is what the talks in Geneva told them, but the separatists don't want to do that.


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## LFC_Styles (Dec 11, 2013)

Still talk about Eastern Europe? Huh.

Well its far from resolved, there is most likely going to be a civil war with the people who want to stay independent versus the people who want to become a part of Russia. The Russians will help the latter, and it will be a massacre.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

CM Styles said:


> Still talk about Eastern Europe? Huh.
> 
> Well its far from resolved, there is most likely going to be a civil war with the people who want to stay independent versus the people who want to become a part of Russia. The Russians will help the latter, and it will be a massacre.


It's likely to never be resolved completely. Too much is at stake. Russia just can't let themselves lose this. They would look stupid an weak before America and they don't want that. Just like during the Cold War. Anyway, I've always been thinking that the Cold War never ended.


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## LFC_Styles (Dec 11, 2013)

Well it never really ended, just had a break haha.

Russia wont lose it. They will go to any measures to make sure of that.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> First and foremost, _all_ coups and all _uprisings_ result in the displacement of an elected or internationally recognised government, so this statement holds little merit.
> .


Actually, it holds plenty of meri,t and you confirmed it by your statement. Everything that is occuring now is in reaction to the coup. It's a statement of fact.




Despot said:


> And you believe him?
> .


Yes!




Despot said:


> I don't know how can you jump to such a credulous conclusion. You're talking about one nation intricately designing an uprising in another nation the resulted in the overthrow of a President and arrant disorder across many of its Western areas. The amount of devising required to pull this off is simply too ornate for me to consider plausible. .


Knowing the vast experience that Washington has in engineering regime change operations, I don't see how you can be so incredulous to the possibility of a U.S. engineered regime change in Ukraine. The U.S. has accumulated a great deal of expertise in engineering regime changes since WW II. However, even just over the last two decades the U.S. has engineered regime changes by internal instigation or outright invasion in:

"Iraq 1992–96
Afghanistan 2001
Venezuela 2002
Iraq 2002–03
Haiti 2004
Gaza Strip 2006–present
Somalia 2006–07
Iran 2005–present
Libya 2011
Syria 2012–present
Ukraine 2013–2014"
CITE: WIKIPEDIA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_...change_actions

And, the above list doesn't include the attempted regime changes that failed in Belarus and other nations. The illustration below will give list members a better idea of Washington's regime change operations over the last 60 years.

*REGIME CHANGE OPERATIONS BY THE U.S. SINCE 1950*







[/URL][/IMG]






Despot said:


> I agree with this, but Russia are also exhibiting endless heights of hypocrisy, too. Let's not just defame the West here.


It doesn't need me to defame it. The West has defamed itself time and again. Over the last two decades during the building of its empire, U.S. hypocrisy has dwarfed anything coming out of Russia or anywhere else.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

stevefox1200 said:


> "STOP SHOOTING AT EACH OTHER AND GIVE EACH OTHER BACK THE BUILDINGS YOU "TOOK" YOU ASSHOLES"



*STOP SHOOTING AT EACH OTHER AND LET THE JUNTA GIVE BACK THE GOVERNMENT IT TOOK AND GAVE TO THE U.S.*

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> Has it been proven to be a hoax like some have claimed?


Despite the fact that you side with the junta, do you really think that the federalists in the east and south are stupid enough to defame their own cause by printing and disseminating blatant anti-semitic literature??? Only the neo-Nazi Right Sector and Svoboda openly bait Jews (and Russians), because they are comfortable in their control of the government at the moment.

While bigotry exists everywhere, and I'm sure there are some anti-semites in the east, the eastern Ukraine is *NOT* a hotbed of anti-semitism like the Western part of the country. Anti-semitism and racism are undeniably part of the ideology of Right Sector and Svoboda who are running the country. It is *NOT* part of the ideology of the federalists who are standing up against the junta in Kiev.

There are a couple of posssiblities here. First of all, this could be a ploy of the junta to deflect attention away from the anti-semites and racists in the present government, i.e. Right Sector and Svoboda. 

Another possiblity is that some non-aligned con-artists put this scheme together to extort money out of people. As was mentioned, an almost identical letter addressed to university students in place of Jews, was circulated earlier.

Seriously, three guys in balaclavas holding a Russian flag stand in front of a synagogue in Donetsk and pass out anti-semitic leaflets??? I don't think anyone following this list can take this seriously. The Governor of Donetsk stated flat out that his signature was forged and he had no connection to the leaflet. The whole thing is fishy. 

What is alarming is how fast "USA TODAY" picked up on the story and made a headline out of it without checking its credibility.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*RUSSOPHOBIA DISSECTED*


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

> Actually, it holds plenty of meri,t and you confirmed it by your statement. Everything that is occuring now is in reaction to the coup. It's a statement of fact.


I was evidently referring to your seemingly nonplussed reaction that the Ukrainian uprising involved the overthrow and displacement of a democratically elected or internationally recognised President. That's the aim of a _coup_, so why are you constantly using that to somehow advance your argument? It makes no sense. 



> Yes!


What do you think of Putin? Do you agree with his monopolisation of Russia's political landscape? His suppression of free speech, predominately in the fields of journalism? I agree his image in misconstrued too frequently in Western media, and I think the way he managed to stabilise Russia's economy during the crisis in the 90s is very impressive, but too often do I find him unwarrantedly idealised in alternative media. He is infinitely better than Yeltsin and I am not denying his widespread popularity in Russia, but he has implemented -- whether you think it is for better or worse -- an authoritarian regime. 



> "Iraq 1992–96
> Afghanistan 2001
> Venezuela 2002
> Iraq 2002–03
> ...


It's funny because, once again, there is absolutely no substantive evidence that advances your assertion. Were some of these regime changes economically supported by the West? Yes. I am not _not_ denying that. But how were they intricately orchestrated? Take Syria, for example. Are the US funding the rebels? Yes. We know this. It is indisputable. But how at all does this correlate with the notion that the US _created_ the uprising? This is what I am trying to get at here. Also, citing wikipedia is unscholarly and often baseless, since that page you linked me to seems to impartially state each one of those regime changes were meticulously designed by the US. You'd receive no credits if you cited _that_ as your source in a paper. 



> Despite the fact that you side with the junta,


My lord, aren't you riddled with bias? You're not very good at having a cordial discussion, are you? You've just mindlessly accused me of siding with the junta. Where did that derive from? Where did I say I supported the coup? I support the _numerous_ protesters who revolted against their venal President. How many times do I have to say a coup is seldom reflective of the majority? I have extensively acknowledged the party's far-right tendencies. Supporting the _people_ is vastly different than supporting the _government_ that stemmed from the revolt. Accept this and move on. 

And I tried watching that CrossTalk episode the other day but barely got past the ten minute mark.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> *STOP SHOOTING AT EACH OTHER AND LET THE JUNTA GIVE BACK THE GOVERNMENT IT TOOK AND GAVE TO THE U.S.*
> 
> - Mike


That's not a compromise, that's a win for Russia.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> That's the aim of a _coup_, so why are you constantly using that to somehow advance your argument? It makes no sense.
> .


Americans (and some Europeans) have very short memories and the steady stream of slanted and skewed reports on Ukraine by the western news media have virtually erased from that memory the reason Ukraine is in this situation - the insurgency and overthrow of the legally elected government in Kiev.

I do read the reports coming out of the U.S. news media and the readers' comments following those reports. Based on most of the commentary, the majority of American readers have had their memories washed of the root cause of the problems in Ukraine - the coup d'etat.

So, you can see how I would feel that it can't hurt to remind people who is responsible for the present situation.




Despot said:


> What do you think of Putin? Do you agree with his monopolisation of Russia's political landscape? His suppression of free speech, predominately in the fields of journalism? I agree his image in misconstrued too frequently in Western media, and I think the way he managed to stabilise Russia's economy during the crisis in the 90s is very impressive, but too often do I find him unwarrantedly idealised in alternative media. He is infinitely better than Yeltsin and I am not denying his widespread popularity in Russia, but he has implemented -- whether you think it is for better or worse -- an authoritarian regime.
> .


I never liked Putin and Medvedyev. If you go back a couple of months to my messages that were posted on this thread before the coup in Kiev and your joining the forums and you can read my opinions on him.

However, he reversed much of the damage done by Yeltsin to the Russian economy and military. Paradoxically, his strengthening of Russia made him and Russia an enemy of the West. 

In October of 1993 when Yeltsin was shooting people in the Duma for not kow towing to him the West never complained about his violation of human rights, because he was kissing Washington's collective ass.  If Putin was a lickspittle like Yeltsin the West would love him despite his clamp down on democracy and rigged elections.

Interestingly, last weekend I ran into a couple of friends whom I hadn't seen in a while - a Jew from Moldova and a Byelorussian guy who had lived in Western Ukraine. These two fellows HATE Putin, but both are backing him to the hilt on the Ukraine issue as I am. 




Despot said:


> It's funny because, once again, there is absolutely no substantive evidence that advances your assertion.
> .


You wouldn't admit that the U.S. is guilty of regime change operations unless Washington and Langley came right out and admitted it. Obviously, that isn't going to happen.




Despot said:


> My lord, aren't you riddled with bias? You're not very good at having a cordial discussion, are you? You've just mindlessly accused me of siding with the junta. Where did that derive from? Where did I say I supported the coup? And I tried watching that CrossTalk episode the other day but barely got past the ten minute mark.


I'm not any more riddled with bias than you are. And as far as having a cordial discussion, you seem to be the one who has a problem with that. Your seemingly "cordial" posts are "riddled" with demeaning words like "mindless," "absent minded," etc., etc.

You say that you don't support the junta, yet all of your posts would indicate that is where your sympathies are. You treat the Kiev junta like the legitimate government of the country and the federalist patriots in the east like criminals.

Too bad that you didn't watch the CrossTalk episode in its entirety. It brought up alot of good points.

- Mike


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

Putin's crackdown on what is loosely known as 'Democracy' in Russia is excusable if only for the fact that the USA has a policy of covert intervention. You can't play a game fairly is some pest is under the table with magnets.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

ХРИСТОС ВОСКРЕСЕ! - CHRIST IS RISEN! 

ВО ИСТИНУ ВОСКРЕСЕ! - INDEED HE IS RISEN!










_Ukrainian Easter Egg_


This year Eastern Orthodox and Catholic/Protestant Easter are celebrated on the same day. It is after midnight already in Moscow. Click on the above link if you would like to watch the live broadcast of the midnight Easter Liturgy in Moscow's Russian Orthodox Christ the Savior Cathedral.

Happy Easter to those who celebrate the holiday!

ХРИСТОС ВОСКРЕСЕ!


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

> Americans (and some Europeans) have very short memories and the steady stream of slanted and skewed reports on Ukraine by the western news media have virtually erased from that memory the reason Ukraine is in this situation - the insurgency and overthrow of the legally elected government in Kiev.
> 
> I do read the reports coming out of the U.S. news media and the readers' comments following those reports. Based on most of the commentary, the majority of American readers have had their memories washed of the root cause of the problems in Ukraine - the coup d'etat.
> 
> So, you can see how I would feel that it can't hurt to remind people who is responsible for the present situation.


Coups are inherently unstable in nature. I agree that a lot of these events in Ukraine stems from the newly situated government, but I was initially referring to your seamlessly nonplussed reaction that the Ukrainian uprising consisted of the displacement and overthrow of an elected President. Why is that surprising, or, in this case, notably significant? It _is_ a coup, after all. 




> You wouldn't admit that the U.S. is guilty of regime change operations unless Washington and Langley came right out and admitted it. Obviously, that isn't going to happen


Actually, no. I just like it if people can substantiate their assertions with reliable evidence. For example, there is plausible information that suggests the United States is funding the rebels in Syria. I have evaluated this evidence and have come to my own personal conclusions. There is, however, nothing that advances your viewpoints. That is, all the uprisings in the countries you listed were intricately designed and meticulously engineered by Western powers. There is a discernible difference between _supporting _and _creating_. 

It is unscholarly and baseless to pass something off as fact and then not substantiate it. It may work for the average person, but not myself or various others who will not absorb information brainlessly. Judging by your posts, you provide reasonable insights and have an understanding of the global political sphere, so I wouldn't expect you to believe anything I say without reputably backing it up. Would that be wrong?



> You say that you don't support the junta, yet all of your posts would indicate that is where your sympathies are. You treat the Kiev junta like the legitimate government of the country and the federalist patriots in the east like criminals.


Provide me with quotes from my previous postings that supports this. If you actually read my posts (alongside *The Manowarrior's*), we support the uprising against the cupid and venal Viktor Yanukovych, not the Kiev junta that have risen into power. How many times do I have to say that seldom is a coup reflective of the initial ideological uprising? 



> Too bad that you didn't watch the CrossTalk episode in its entirety. It brought up alot of good points.


I've written a paper on Russian perception in the West before, so I know full well what Russophobia entails. That CrossTalk episode seemed to just use -- what is a very thought-provoking subject -- as a platform to demonise the West. In other words, substandard journalism.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

RIGHT SECTOR NEO-NAZI THUGS BREAK EASTER TRUCE AND ATTACK SLAVYANSK UNARMED FEDERALIST PATRIOTS







‘Easter truce’ broken: Five deaths in overnight checkpoint raid in E. Ukraine

Published time: April 20, 2014 05:17 

Five people have been killed in a gunfight in Slavyansk, a city in eastern Ukraine held by anti-government protesters. *The fatalities include three protesters and two attackers, who are believed to be from the Right Sector paramilitary.
* 

The deaths came after a night attack on a protester checkpoint on the outskirts of the city. Four cars drove by the checkpoint and opened fire at the local residents manning it, killing two people and seriously injuring several others. 

“They approached with their high beam headlamps on. Our man went to them and asked not to blind us, show IDs and open the trunk for inspection. Then an assault rifle got stuck out of the window and he was gunned down,” an eyewitness, Vladimir, told RT. 

*He added some of the people trying to flee the attackers were shot in their backs*. One gunshot victim died later in hospital from a head wound, local medics confirmed. Two others are undergoing treatment. 

*The checkpoint was in the control of 26 civilians armed with bats*. Their lack of firearms was due to a so-called “Easter truce” announced by both the Kiev authorities and the protest leaders to de-escalate tension. 

*Among the victims of the night attack is Sergey Rudenko, 53, who worked as a school bus driver, his wife told RIA Novosti*. He lived in a village near Slavyansk and was guarding the checkpoint on Easter night together with his two adult sons. 

*As the civilians were pinned down, a group of 20 protesters with firearms came from the city*. They opened fire on the attackers, killing two of them and sent the rest running. Five attackers were injured by the retaliating forces, protest leader, Vyacheslav Ponomaryev, said. 

Donetsk region’s interior ministry confirmed fatalities in the gunfight, but said it has information on only three deaths – two among the local residents and one among the attackers. The identity of the attacker is yet to be established, the law enforcers said.

The protesters captured two of the attackers’ four cars, which were damaged in the gunfight and later torched by protesters angry over the deaths of their fellow Slavyansk residents. 

Footage of the equipment confiscated showed firearms including a machine gun, a night vision device, aerial photos of Slavyansk, military uniforms, camping tools and other things handy for guerrilla warfare. 


Slavyansk mayor asks Russia to send peacekeepers in wake of deadly night attack

20 April 2014, 14:57

Head of the self-defense units of Ukraine's eastern town of Slavyansk, Vladimir Ponomaryov, who was appointed Slavyansk mayor by the town's residents, *has asked Russia to send peacekeepers to eastern Ukraine to protect civilians from National Guard and Right Sector militants*.


"*They kill our people. They don't talk to us but just kill*," Ponomaryov said at an emergency press conference in the wake of last night's armed clashes on the outskirts of Slavyansk.

*"The town has actually been besieged by the Right Sector," *he said.

Only Russia can protect civilians from the Right Sector, Ponomaryov said, that's why *he decided to ask Russian President Vladimir Putin to send peacekeepers to the eastern Donetsk and Lugansk regions*, the RIA Novosti news agency reports


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Two attackers died from the hands of peaceful, unarmed patriots


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Two attackers died from the hands of peaceful, unarmed patriots []


Read the article more carefully.

Regardless, since the Ukrainian Army refuses to shoot its own people it looks like the Kiev junta is bringing in the murderers and thugs of Western Ukrainian Right Sector. That's why they are filling the ranks of the newly formed "National Guard" with Western Ukrainian Right Sector veterans of the Maidan insurgency. 

As they proved during the Maidan insurgency, the Western Ukrainian neo-Nazi garbage doesn't have the slightest compunction over shooting and murdering people.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The anti-semitism of many in the ruling Kiev junta is well documented. The fake letter ordering Jews in Donetsk to register was a perfect opportunity to attempt to discredit the federalists in the east with an anti-semitic smear.

Apparently, John Kerry is a bigger asshole than I thought. You would think that he would hold off and check the veracity of the charges before going on TV and making a fool of himself. I guess Washington and Langley figured that the leaflet was going to be exposed as a fake sooner rather than later, and decided to make as much noise about it as possible and as quickly as possible.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Conversely, Yaakov Bleich, widely recognised as the Chief Rabbi of Kiev and most of Ukraine, has said for Russia to stop its aggression. This was following the Crimean annexation.


Also, Jews in Ukraine seeking escape to Israel over letter demanding they 'register' with pro-Russian forces that was branded fake by a rabbi.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> Conversely, Yaakov Bleich, widely recognised as the Chief Rabbi of Kiev and most of Ukraine, has said for Russia to stop its aggression. This was following the Crimean annexation.
> [/URL]


*We are talking about anti-semitism here, not Rabbi Bleich's opinion regarding the constitutionality of the Crimean secession*.

Neo-Nazi Right Sector and Svoboda are self-declared anti-semites. There is no question about that. *The goal of the West and supporters of the junta is to deflect attention away from that fact*. Some methods of accomplishing this are by creating a false flag that exploits the bogus anti-semitic leaflet in Donetsk, or steering attention toward other subjects commented on by leaders of the Jewish community in Ukraine.











_John McCain cozies up to Oleg Tyahnibok, leader of the Neo-Nazi Svoboda Party that played a leading role in the coup d'etat, and now plays a role in the running of the the junta's illegitimate government in Kiev_. 










[/URL][/IMG]
_Victoria Nuland smile for a photo op with neo-Nazi leader Oleg Tyahnibok_.











_Western Ukrainian neo-Nazis carry the portrait of WW II Nazi collaborator Stepan Bandera during a fascist demonsration_.











_This is what plays a major role in the illegitimate Kiev junta that is now running Ukraine with U.S. support_. 









_Dmitry Yarosh, leader of Right Sector, calls for a "pure Ukraine." Wouldl you want to be living in a country run by this guy???_


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

She smiled standing next to him. THAT WOMAN IS A NAZI!


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Away from Ukraine, here's some news from Russia.



> *Gunman who took three hostage at Russian bank surrenders*
> 
> MOSCOW: A man armed with a hunting rifle who took three people hostage in a bank in southwestern Russia on Monday has surrendered, police said.
> 
> ...


Looks like this is how things are done in Russia, because he most likely won't even be charged with anything and they will just let him go. With his money. Российская справедливость.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Away from Ukraine, here's some news from Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like this is how things are done in Russia, because he most likely won't even be charged with anything and they will just let him go. With his money. Российская справедливость.


First of all, what has this got to do with anything that we have been discussing here? 

Secondly, how do you know what the disposition of the case will be? Who are you, the Great Karmak?

Lastly, having been a police officer, I know plenty of first hand stories of "амкериканская справедливость" that would make your hair stand on end. In the U.S. we call it "turnstile justice." We lock 'em up, and the liberal judges let 'em go. Then they go out and commit even worse crime, and everyone wonders why the rate of recidivism is so high.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> She smiled standing next to him. THAT WOMAN IS A NAZI!


That woman is not a Nazi, however she is a representative of the United States government in the capacity of Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs. As such, one would think that posing for photo ops with neo-Nazis would be frowned upon.

Apparently not, since in this case the U.S. government is on the same side as the fascist leader in the photo. 

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> First of all, what has this got to do with anything that we have been discussing here?
> 
> Secondly, how do you know what the disposition of the case will be? Who are you, the Great Karmak?
> 
> ...


It has nothing to do with thle Ukrain situation. That's why I said 'away from Ukraine'. This is Eastern Eyrope discussion thread, not Ukraine discussion thread.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> It has nothing to do with thle Ukrain situation. That's why I said 'away from Ukraine'. This is Eastern Eyrope discussion thread, not Ukraine discussion thread.


I stand corrected! We've been talking so much about Ukraine that it does seem like this is a Ukraine discussion thread.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Away from Ukraine, here's some news from Russia.
> 
> _Gunman who took three hostage at Russian bank surrenders
> 
> ...


Getting back to the article, I don't quite understand what you are criticizing.

Based on what was reported, the Russian police did a great job ending the seige and arresting the perp without any shooting or casualties. According to what I read he was charged with taking hostages and possession of firearms which is punishable there by 15 years in prison. 

So, my question is what is your gripe? Are you criticizing the fact that they promised to get his money back?? Maybe they will, or maybe they won't. It's irrelevant. During a negotiation to end a hostage situation or an interrogation to gain a confession it is perfectly permissable for the police to lie to the perpetrator. At least that is the penal law in most states in the U.S.

Your post is a compliment to the good work of the Russian militsia in this case! I'm sure you can find something else to feed the Russophobes following this thread! 

- Mike


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## LuckyCannon>SCSA (Mar 25, 2009)

I'm writing an essay on US foreign policy toward Poland.

Any yall want to provide some potential talking points?


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Getting back to the article, I don't quite understand what you are criticizing.
> 
> Based on what was reported, the Russian police did a great job ending the seige and arresting the perp without any shooting or casualties. According to what I read he was charged with taking hostages and possession of firearms which is punishable there by 15 years in prison.
> 
> ...


The bank has lost its license. The most people will bet back from it is 700 000 rubles. He got his 25 000 000 rubles back. After taking hostages in an armed robbery. And they just let him go just like that.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> The bank has lost its license. The most people will bet back from it is 700 000 rubles. He got his 25 000 000 rubles back. After taking hostages in an armed robbery. And they just let him go just like that.


Maybe, I'm missing something here, but the guy was charged and in custody. It doesn't say he got his money back. It said the police promised they would try to get his money back. (In my opinion, a police ploy to calm him down and get him to surrender. They have no power to get his money back!)

No matter how you try to twist this around, the Russian police officers came out smelling like a rose. 

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Maybe, I'm missing something here, but the guy was charged and in custody. It doesn't say he got his money back. It said the police promised they would try to get his money back. (In my opinion, a police ploy to calm him down and get him to surrender. They have no power to get his money back!)
> 
> No matter how you try to twist this around, the Russian police officers came out smelling like a rose.
> 
> - Mike


I'm not trying to twist this around in any way. I didn't even express my opinion beyond saying that this is how stuff works in Russia. I've seen this story on the news. Not only he will get his money back, but he will also MOST LIKELY not be punished for that.

Why are you taking anything as a direct attack at you and Russia? You seem like you're afraid of any criticism, even the slightest. And best defense is attack. So you think that with any statement criticizing something you like you are being attacked and to defend your point you call it propaganda, Russophobia, etc.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> I'm not trying to twist this around in any way. I didn't even express my opinion beyond saying that this is how stuff works in Russia. I've seen this story on the news. Not only he will get his money back, but he will also MOST LIKELY not be punished for that.
> 
> Why are you taking anything as a direct attack at you and Russia? You seem like you're afraid of any criticism, even the slightest. And best defense is attack. So you think that with any statement criticizing something you like you are being attacked and to defend your point you call it propaganda, Russophobia, etc.


First of all, the post was an attempt to belittle law enforcement in Russia with you stating, "This is how it works in Russia."

Secondly, you have made a whole slew of assumptions that are not backed up by any facts. "...he will MOST LIKELY not be punished...," "Not only will he get his money back..."

In fact, the article showed good police work that did not entail a shootout with resultant injuries or deaths. Your negative statements are all assumptions made by YOU!

There is *NO* propaganda in the article or Russophobia. And, I have no point to defend. 

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> First of all, the post was an attempt to belittle law enforcement in Russia with you stating, "This is how it works in Russia."
> 
> Secondly, you have made a whole slew of assumptions that are not backed up by any facts. "...he will MOST LIKELY not be punished...," "Not only will he get his money back..."
> 
> ...


If you have no point, then why are you even agruing? If there's one thing I can't stand is people who argue just to argue. And these assumptions were made not by me. They were made by the news. RUSSIAN news. I put Russian in caps lock because it it was anything else and not Russian you wouldn't believe it.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> If you have no point, then why are you even agruing? If there's one thing I can't stand is people who argue just to argue. And these assumptions were made not by me. They were made by the news. RUSSIAN news. I put Russian in caps lock because it it was anything else and not Russian you wouldn't believe it.


If those assumptions were not made be you, who made them? They certainly were not in the article.

Anyway, list members following this thread can read the article and your *INTERPRETATION* of the article and decide for themselves what the report says and what comes from your assumptions. Simple!

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

THE HONORED DEAD OF SLAVYANSK - MURDERED ON EASTER SUNDAY BY RIGHT SECTOR NEO-NAZIS








[/URL][/IMG]

*VOICES FROM RUSSIA*

"Three patriot Opolchenie fighters died in the firefight on Easter Sunday with the Right Sector Uniate terrorists in Slavyansk:

•*Sergei Tikhonovich, 57*
•*Pavel Pavelko, 42*
•*Aleksandr Sigarov, 24*

In the above image, we see Tikhonovich (on the left) and Sigarov (on the right). The people are giving them the *Last Kiss*." 

"Their blood lies on the altar. There’s no going back to the status quo now. In their hearts and souls *the people of the southeast have left the Ukrainian non-state behind*. They never believed in it, in any case. The population wants no part of the neo-Nazi Uniate fantasy… *their grandfathers fought the fascists then, they’ll fight ‘em now.*" 

"*All good Orthodox Christians have the God-given duty to support the patriot elements and oppose the godless pro-American junta*." 

"However, we must stand with the people of Slavyansk and remember the sacrifice of Sergei, Pavel, and Aleksandr. Have your priest offer *Pannikhida* for the repose of their souls and light a candle for them next Sunday. We’re Orthodox Christians… that’s what we do."

*BMD*


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

LuckyCannon>SCSA said:


> I'm writing an essay on US foreign policy toward Poland.
> 
> Any yall want to provide some potential talking points?


I'd look into the Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense System the United States are beginning to build and form in Poland. It has pertinent correlations to what is happening in Ukraine now, too. One of the reasons why Putin has retaliated the way he has is primarily because of NATO's expansion and the various anti-defense missile systems the US has initiated across Eastern Europe over the last 15-20 years. These systems are pointing directly at Russia and are aimed at suppressing their geopolitical interests by basically 'shielding' Europe. Of course, the West denies this, much to the humour of Putin:


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Ukraine's acting president has relaunched military operations against pro-Russian militants in the east after two men, one a local politician, were found "tortured to death".

Vladimir Rybak reportedly disappeared after trying to access the Horlivka city council which had been seized by pro-Russian forces. Next thing we know is that he was tortured and murdered. As a result, Ukraine has relaunched its military operation in eastern Ukraine. 

Also... 




















I think we're still expected to believe the pro-Russian forces in eastern Ukraine have no external funding nor control. I think it is highly conspicuous that Putin has had an incremental role in what has transpired in eastern Ukraine. The political logic is right there, too. No way would any Russian President want to lose the eastern bloc of Ukraine to a pro-Western, possibly pro-EU government because that essentially puts NATO and European powers on its doorstep, suppressing its geopolitical interests in the process. It'd also prove largely detrimental to their naval fleet in Crimea on the Black Sea peninsula. Stalin once engineered destabilisation campaigns as a pretext to annex Eastern European countries for a shield against Western powers. Same thing is happening here, albeit to much a less villainous and extreme extent. I can see why Putin is doing this. I think we all can. And considering the large ethnic Russian population in eastern Ukraine, I'm sure not a lot of people there would be too overly-disappointed.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> I'd look into the Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense System the United States are beginning to build and form in Poland. It has pertinent correlations to what is happening in Ukraine now, too. One of the reasons why Putin has retaliated the way he has is primarily because of NATO's expansion and the various anti-defense missile systems the US has initiated across Eastern Europe over the last 15-20 years. These systems are pointing directly at Russia and are aimed at suppressing their geopolitical interests by basically 'shielding' Europe. Of course, the West denies this, much to the humour of Putin:


That was priceless! :lol МОЛОДЕЦ ВЛАДИМИР ВЛАДИМИРОВИЧ! :clap

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

No Reason to Doubt US Running the Show in Ukraine – Lavrov










MOSCOW, April 23 (RIA Novosti) – The visit of US Vice President Joseph Biden to Kiev this week and the subsequent restart of a military operation against protesters is evidence the US is controlling the actions of Ukrainian authorities, Russian Foreign Minister Segei Lavrov said Wednesday.

“Now that Joe Biden visited Kiev this counterterrorist operation was declared in the active phase again,” Lavrov said during an English-language interview with the RT news channel.

“It’s quite telling that they chose the moment of the Vice President of the United States to announce the resumption of this operation, because the launching of this operation happened immediately after [CIA Director] John Brennan’s visit to Kiev,” the foreign minister said.

“So I don’t have any reasons not to believe that the Americans are running the show in a very close way,” he added.

US Vice President Joseph Biden arrived in Kiev on a two-day visit Monday to meet with Ukrainian authorities as the country struggles to find a way out of a deep economic and political crisis.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

СЛАВА ГЕРОЯМ ДОНБАССА! / GLORY TO THE HEROES OF DONBASS

СМЕРТЬ ЗАПАДНЫМ УКРАЙНСКИМ ФАШИСТАМ!/ DEATH TO THE WESTERN UKRAINIAN FASCISTS!


*ORTHODOX FUNERAL SERVICE IN SLAVYANSK*





*GLORY TO THE HEROES OF SLAVYANSK! / СЛАВА ГЕРОЯМ СЛАВЯНСКА!*


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Ukraine coal miners on strike, refuse to pay Kiev coup damages bill

Published time: April 24, 2014 01:09 








[/URL][/IMG]
_Reuters / Alexander Prokopenko_

*Over 2,000 coal miners in Lugansk region *have been on strike for the second day running, demanding higher wages and *refusing to accept a pay cut to fund the restoration of Kiev, which suffered damage during the coup that overthrew the government*.

Some 80 percent of miners from five coal mines belonging to "Krasnodonugol" enterprise in the city of Krasnodon have not shown up to work. The mines are all owned by one of Ukraine's richest man, Rinat Akhmetov of the mining and metallurgical "Metinvest" corporation. 

Angry miners are pressing for wage increases to match region's average pay, better social and living conditions and higher social bonuses. According to the strikers they get an average of 6,000 hryvnas ($520), while the average salary in the coal industry in the region is up to 10,000 hryvnia ($860). 

*Miners are also refusing to pay a 10 percent tax on their salaries, imposed by the post-coup authorities to restore the Maidan square in Kiev.* The square and nearby buildings suffered significant damage during months of rallies and the violent standoff that led to a coup in February. 

According to local media reports miners have seen around a 10 percent cut in their paychecks to restore the Ukrainian capital. 

“I don't understand why are we involved!” one of the protesting miners, Stanislav Denisenko told Itar-tass. “*It was not us who dismantled the stones and burned the houses down*. I get about 900 hryvna a month, that is around 9,000 rubles ($260). I don't understand why they are taking away my salary.” 

Local media also reports that *protesting miners also demand the reinstatement of a few dozen of their colleagues who they say have been fired from their jobs for taking part in pro-federalization rallies in the region*. 

While the coal sector workers mainly have remained apolitical, many still question the legitimacy of the Kiev government. 

“*We are also against Kiev's junta. We do not recognize their authority.* It is not legitimate. We stand for the memory of our ancestors fighting alongside Russians. *We're all Slavs. We are one nation. We do not have heroes such as Bandera and Shukhevych*. We are against these people because they are destroying our history,” one of the protesters said during the second day of the strike. 

The prosecutor’s office in Krasnodon is now conducting an investigation into the legal compliance and requirements for miners fair pay. The company is locked in negotiations with the strikers. 

International relations expert Mark Sleboda told RT that Kiev cannot afford losing control of “the real bread winner of the Ukraine” – the mining industry. 

“*The mining industry employs about 500,000 people throughout the region, provides about 15 percent of the country's GDP and coal alone is 30 percent of Ukraine's energy consumption,*” Sleboda says.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

It's interesting how alternative media have not covered the death of Vladimir Rybak. I guess they didn't because it depicts the pro-Russian forces in a cynical light, as opposed to a 'patriotic' one. Really, both ends in the media are just as bad each other here.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

*Kidnapping of Ukrainian patriots has Russia's full support, says Kiev*










The last time Vladimir Rybak was seen alive was on Thursday 17 April . The local councillor was walking away from the city hall in the eastern Ukrainian city of Horlovka after taking part in a pro-Ukrainian flashmob in the central square. Three days earlier, separatists had seized the government building, taking down the Ukrainian flag and replacing it with the tricolour of the Donetsk People's Republic.

According to friends, Rybak, who was 42, made no secret of his strong anti-separatist views. "He was entirely open – and at times impulsive," fellow councillor Yurii Zhuk said. After the demonstration Rybak tried to barge his way into the Horlovka city hall and take down the rebel flag. A video captured what happened next. Pro-Russian protesters jostled Rybak; they refused to let him inside; a youth in a balaclava grabbed his arm and led him away.

Zhuk said that Rybak and a friend then left the square, tracking away from its Lenin statue, and headed towards the city's Palace of Culture. A Kia car pulled up, and four men in masks and military fatigues jumped out and grabbed him. Rybak's friends assume the kidnappers must have had a gun. "Vladimir was a sportsman and an ex-policeman. He knew how to handle himself," Zhuk said.

Over the weekend, Rybak's battered body was found in a river near the separatist stronghold of Slavyansk, 60 miles away. According to investigators, he had been tortured. There were stab marks on his stomach and bruising on his chest. Rybak's kidnappers tied a sandbag to his body and drowned him while he was unconscious. On Wednesday, his widow Elena, a 49-year-old doctor, and 25-year-old son Yura, went to Slavyansk to retrieve his body.

The gruesome case is the latest in a string of kidnappings and murders in eastern Ukraine which Kiev blames on Russia and its undercover agents. Law and order in Slavyansk and surrounding areas of the Donetsk region has deteriorated dramatically. In Kramatorsk, pro-Russian gunmen hijacked the security agency HQ. They also beat up the city's deputy mayor and kidnapped its police chief – both supporters of Ukrainian unity.

Source: http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...n-patriots-russia-support-kiev-vladimir-rybak


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*Washington's regime change operation goes into full gear again after Biden's visit to Kiev!*

Kiev military op: Ukrainian army tanks, APCs, troops attack Slavyansk

Published time: April 24, 2014 09:05

*Five anti-government protesters have reportedly been killed and one injured in the eastern Ukrainian town of Slavyansk after Kiev authorities sent tanks and armored vehicles against the local population*.

“During the antiterrorist operation, three checkpoints erected by illegal military groups have been destroyed in the northeastern part of Slavyansk,” the Ukrainian Interior Ministry said, adding: "At least five terrorists have been killed. One policeman was injured.” 

Witnesses report on Twitter Slavyansk self-defense forces are now burning tires to hamper the entrance of infantry vehicles from Kiev into the city. 

According to Rossiya 24 TV channel, *self-defense forces have repelled the attack of the Kiev gunmen at the key checkpoint 3 km north of Slavyansk. At least three infantry vehicles had to retreat*. 






Police has announced the beginning of the crackdown via loudspeakers and a special vehicle is currently patrolling the streets warning local people about the crackdown. 

The local citizens in the city are preparing for the Kiev crackdown. *The majority of shops, kindergartens and schools have been closed in the city*. Only the shops selling bread and water remain open.

“*Fighting the outskirts of Slavyansk started at about 12pm Moscow time (08:00 GMT),” one of the leaders of the self-defense forces*, Miroslav Rudenko, told Interfax, "We are checking reports of one dead and one injured. There are shootings at a number of checkpoints at some of Slavyansk exit-roads.” 

Rudenko said it was impossible to reach self-defense leaders in Slavyansk by phone, suspecting that mobile phone connection could have been switched off.






According to locals, at least eight armored infantry vehicles passed the village of Hrestische, near Slavyansk, on Thursday morning, reports Gazeta.ru. 

At least three snipers from Ukrainian army are now at the barricades, the residents also told Gazeta.ru, adding that when one of the journalists tried to approach the barricades, the snipers opened fire. 

Meanwhile, two columns of armored vehicles are heading towards Slavyansk. The first column is now 6km from the city, while the second is 3 to 4km, Mayor of Slavyansk Vyacheslav Ponomarev told Rossiya 24 TV channel. 

Meanwhile, the armored infantry vehicles are currently heading towards the town of Izyum in the Kharkov Region, not far from Slavyansk. 

*Anti-government protesters are still controlling the checkpoints on the outskirts of Slavyansk*. 

Russian President Vladimir Putin called Kiev’s crackdown on anti-government protesters “a very serious crime.” 

“*If the Kiev regime started military actions against the country’s population, this is without doubt a very serious crime,”* Putin said. 

*He maintains that the current situation in eastern Ukraine is another proof that Russia was right when it supported the Crimeans when they decided to have a referendum*. 

Meanwhile, Russian OSCE (Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe) envoy Andrey Kelin proposed sending immediately the observers to Slavyansk, calling the city and near-by regions “hotspots.” 

He criticized Kiev’s ‘anti-terrorist’ operation, launched against anti-government protesters in the city as “serious violation of the Geneva agreements.”


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*NOW THE TIME HAS COME...TIME!* The American backed, murdering neo-Nazis of Right Sector and the "National Guard" are killing our people. *RUSSIA MUST ACT NOW!* 

Russia 'forced' to launch military drills near border in response to Ukraine op - Moscow

Published time: April 24, 2014 12:53








[/URL][/IMG]
_Russian Defense Minister Shogu_

Russia has begun extensive military exercises near the Ukrainian border following the escalation of violence in eastern Ukraine.

“*The order to use force against civilians has already been given, and if this military machine is not stopped, the amount of casualties will only grow*,” Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu said during an official meeting in Moscow. 

“War games by NATO in Poland and the Baltic states are also not helping the normalization of the situation. We are forced to react to the situation.” 

Shoigu said that the drills involve march and deployment maneuvers by forces in the southern and western military districts, and separate Air Force exercises. 

Shoigu said that *11,000 Ukrainian soldiers, 160 tanks, 230 armored carriers and at least 150 artillery pieces are involved in the operation against anti-Kiev activists. 
*
“*National guard units and Right Sector extremists are fighting against the peaceful population*, as well as a volunteer Donbass ‘anti-terrorist’ unit. Also security and internal forces transferred to Lugansk and Donetsk from other areas of the country are suppressing dissent,” he said. 

Shoigu added that Ukrainian sabotage units had been deployed near the Russian border. 

In contrast, he said that the pro-Russian self-defense units number about 2,000 and have about 100 guns between them, which have mostly been taken from local police stations. 

"It's not an evenly matched confrontation," Shoigu said. 








[/URL][/IMG]
_National Guard units move toward Slavyansk_

The coup-imposed Ukrainian acting president, Aleksandr Turchinov, has demanded that Russia pull back its troops back from the Ukrainian border, calling the ongoing Russian military exercises “blackmail.” 

In a brief address, Turchinov claimed that “terrorists have crossed the border… taking hostages and killing the patriots of Ukraine.” He also called for the Russian government “to stop interfering into the internal affairs of our country.” 

The heaviest fighting on Thursday took place in Slavyansk, with the Ukrainian Interior Ministry reporting the deaths of at least five "terrorists." 

NATO has estimated that Russia has massed at least 40,000 troops near its border with Ukraine. Moscow has not denied that it has moved troops to the region, but *said that its internal troop movements are its own prerogative*. 

NATO began military exercises in Poland on Wednesday, with more scheduled to take place in the Baltic states next week. So far, 150 US paratroopers have arrived in the country from their stationary base in Italy, with 450 more set to join them. 

Poland’s foreign minister, Radoslaw Sikorski, has also asked NATO to deploy 10,000 troops in his country. 

On Wednesday, the frigate USS Taylor became the latest US ship to enter the Black Sea on a rotating deployment. NATO has dispatched a separate rapid reaction force to the Baltic.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

‘Feed your army, motherf***ers!’ Raging locals ‘hijack’ RT report as Ukraine troops raid Slavyansk

Published time: April 24, 2014 15:31 

Eastern Ukrainians enraged by the Kiev military operation have used an RT video report to tell first-hand details of a Ukrainian army attack in Slavyansk. *The Ukrainian troops raided a checkpoint and took all the food and medicine*, they said.

Ukraine-based British journalist Graham Phillips was making a video report for RT on Thursday right after Ukrainian armed forces stormed a checkpoint near Slavyansk and were withdrawing from the area. 

As Phillips was telling of the volatile situation in the background and reports of fatalities in the shootout, two locals approached his camera to have their say on what happened at the scene. 

“*Those who just left the checkpoint are f****** jackals,” an angry man shouted, pointing in the direction of the retreating Ukrainian troops. 

“They robbed us – they took our food, medicines, they just looted the place!”* he said. 

Another man intervened, addressing the coup-imposed acting Ukrainian President Aleksandr Turchinov, who ordered the so-called “anti-terrorist operation” to resume in eastern Ukraine on Wednesday: “*Turchinov feed them, will you*?!” 

“*Turchinov, what the f***? Feed them, you motherf*****!” the first man chimed in*. 






This is not the first time reports from Ukraine hint at the poor state of the Ukrainian army, which has been sent to the south-east of the country to quell the anti-government protests. While Slavyansk activists told RT young soldiers were sent to shoot at them with no food supplies, some of the Ukrainian soldiers who surrendered to the locals told RIA Novosti they had to eat “a nettle soup,” which they gathered on the roadside. 

Other video reports coming from Slavyansk on Thursday told a similar story to the men interrupting Phillips. 

*Several Ukrainian troops “put a number of locals face down on the ground although they had no weapons whatsoever, after that the military drove away the rest and seized all the food from the checkpoint that was brought by the people to the fellows standing guard,”* said a witness speaking to local activists on camera. 

He added that one young activist was shot dead and another injured at a nearby checkpoint overnight. Both activists were unarmed, he said, calling the incident an “abuse” of Ukrainian troops’ duties. 

The activists reporting from the barricades said the raided checkpoints are now being reinforced with concrete blocks and that the self-defense troops are bracing for a looming attack.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

The military operation is not a direct attack on the civilian populace of eastern Ukraine, but merely designed to topple the armed and trained pro-Russian seperatists who are destabilising the region by seizing buildings and land. A lot of these 'patriots', as the alternative media will dub them, have no doubt been the recipient of external funding, and there clearly is a political agenda at play. I'll be the first condemn the illegally installed government in Kiev, but some of these pro-Russian forces (the armed, the masked, and the militarily proficient) are, without doubt in my mind, Russian troops. As I mentioned in another post, you can see Putin's geopolitical logic in annexing eastern Ukraine. It will be used as a shield from Western powers. However, in order to annex the land or disunify it 'accordingly', you need ostensible pretext, and sending in Russian troops to destabilise the region makes perfect sense. Stalin did the same by engineering pro-Communist revolutions in European states as a pretense to expand the Soviet Union, and it worked.

Look, a lot of residents in this eastern half of Ukraine are ethnically Russian and both culturally and ideologically contrastive to western Ukrainians, so why not just split them into two sovereign countries? Why does Russia and the West need to get involved so conspicuously?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> Stalin did the same by engineering pro-Communist revolutions in European states as a pretense to expand the Soviet Union, and it worked.


That is not true. Stalin was very much an advocate of building socialism in one country and, in fact, focused all of the Soviet Union's resources on that agenda.

Looking back at the period of *1925 to 1941 *the main ideological struggle between Trotsky (Bronstein) and Stalin (Djugashvili) was the question of either building socialism in one country or exporting the revolution. *Trotsky was an advocate of world revolution, Stalin was not*. 

The question was decided in *1925* at the *14th Congress of the Communist Party (Bolsheviks)* when over 75% of the delegates sided with Stalin *AGAINST* Trotsky's position. 

Trotsky was eventually deported and continued his anti-Stalin, world revolution agenda in the Bronx, N.Y. The COMINTERN was defacto ignored by the USSR and eventually dissolved. Meanwhile, all of the Soviet Union's energies went into industrialization and collectivization of agriculture, *NOT* engineering revolutions in foreign countries.

- Mike


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Actually, Stalin had an incremental role in foreign Communist campaigns. Read the text _God Bless You, Joe Stalin The Man Who Saved Capitalism_ - it's provides quite an insight.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

ONLY FOOLS WOULD F--K WITH THE MINERS! / UKRAINIAN COAL MINERS' FURY SPREADS!!

Apparently, Washington's puppets in Kiev leave part of their brain matter in the toilet bowl after taking their morning crap. Even the Soviet government would never f--k with the miners. 

Russia may not yet have to invade to liberate Ukraine. If America's lickspittles in the junta piss them off enough the miners will do the job themselves! 

*ДА ЗДРАВСТВУЕТ ШАХТЕРЫ! СМЕРТЬ ФАШИСТАМ И ЗАПАДНЫМ ЗАХВАТЧИКАМ!*


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

^ You think a Russian invasion will liberate Ukraine? It'll just cause more instability, primarily due to how Western powers would respond.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Quite the hilarious addition of CrossTalk. Regardless of how one feels about this, people expect a large degree of neutrality from Peter, and Mark should be able to give his opinion without being _constantly_ interrupted.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Despot said:


> Quite the hilarious addition of CrossTalk. Regardless of how one feels about this, people expect a large degree of neutrality from Peter, and Mark should be able to give his opinion without being _constantly_ interrupted.


What a prick that Peter guy is fpalm I feel like RT is the Russian equivalent of Fox News.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

He really has no idea how to host a show. It's terribly unprofessional and fairly ignominious. I enjoy editions of CrossTalk where Russia is not at the subject of discussion because, if it is, the propaganda and bias becomes all too conspicuous, and the end result is predictable. I understand Western media is no better, but RT should embed a greater deal of impartiality in their reporting, if only to live up to its reputation and downplay the hypocrisy they exhibit.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> ...but RT should embed a greater deal of impartiality in their reporting, if only to live up to its reputation and downplay the hypocrisy they exhibit.


As should *ABC*, *CBS*, *NBC*, *Fox News*, *CNN*, and their crony on the other side of the pond, the *BBC.* 

- Mike


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

RT is lightyears ahead of western plutocratic propaganda services.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

roadkill_ said:


> RT is lightyears ahead of western plutocratic propaganda services.


Absolutely! 

I remember in 2008 it took the U.S. and Western media 5 or 6 days to admit that it was Saakashvili who sent U.S. supplied tanks into South Ossetia and that Russia responded to Saakashvili's invasion. For nearly a week people were under the false impression that Russia just decided one day to invade Georgia.

Fox News even had a young American girl of South Ossetian descent who was in Tsikhnvali on the day of the Georgian invasion on for an interview a few days after the outbreak of hostilities. When she started to tell the truth about the tanks rolling in from Georgia and killing civilians and Russian peace keepers she was shut up fast by the host. 

The U.S. "free press" is a pathetic joke.

- Mike


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

roadkill_ said:


> RT is lightyears ahead of western plutocratic propaganda services.


RT gives you a fresh alternative to world events, particularly those transpiring in the West. However, you are going to get no criticism of Putin nor any of the Russia's allies on the network. In fact, when you think about it, there is more criticism of Obama on Fox News than there is of Putin on RT. In fact, Putin is suppressing independent journalism in Russia and shutting down most of them with RT as its replacement. America allows RT to come down, set up their studios, and spend a majority of their time criticising Obama and the West. Never would Russia allow an American network to be set up in Russia that spends all of its time belittling Putin.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

[/URL][/IMG]

_"Ukrainians must choose one or the other… the EU or the Eurasian Economic Community (Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Armenia). The first will rape them and destroy their industry… the second would rebuild them. Will Ukrainians choose a brighter future as part of a Eurasian community or a living hell as Western slaves? That’s what the present crisis is all about…"
_
*BMD
Voices From Russia*


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

fpalm


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

fpalm fpalm

That _really_ is the "Voice of Russia". My goodness, the simplicity of some people.


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

The product of years of exceptionalist neo-bolshevism. Where brainwashing is lightyears ahead in the leftist west of their old Communist friends.


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

> It is clear that Washington has no intention of working anything out with the Russian government. Washington’s demands make this conclusion unavoidable. Washington is demanding that the Russian government pull the rug out from under the protesting populations in eastern and southern Ukraine and force the Russian populations in Ukraine to submit to Washington’s stooges in Kiev. Washington also demands that Russia renege on the reunification with Crimea and hand Crimea over to Washington so that the original plan of evicting Russia from its Black Sea
> naval base can go forward.
> 
> In other words, Washington’s demand is that Russia put Humpty Dumpty back together again and hand him over to Washington.
> This demand is so unrealistic that it surpasses the meaning of arrogance. *The White House Fool is telling Putin: “I screwed up my takeover of your backyard. I want you to fix the situation for me and to ensure the success of the strategic threat I intended to bring to your backyard.”*


http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/04/26/moving-closer-war-paul-craig-roberts/


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

roadkill_ said:


> The product of years of exceptionalist neo-bolshevism. Where brainwashing is lightyears ahead in the leftist west of their old Communist friends.


A Youtube commenter. Nuff said.


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

American wars this century so far: 

- Invasion of Iraq (use of prohibited weaponry)
- Invasion of Afghanistan (use of prohibited weaponry)
- Bombing of Libya
- Bombing of Pakistan
- Bombing of Yemen
- Syrian intervention
- Georgian intervention
- Ukrainian intervention
- Arming MEK terrorists


Russian wars this century:

- Chechnya
- Liberation of South Ossetia


So for John Kerry to come out beating his chest about morals is hubris beyond belief.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)




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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

I think people need to step back and refrain from the blatant criticism of the West. A lot of it is warranted, I am not denying that, but it is imperative to examine what is happening from a scholarly viewpoint. Following the dissolution of the USSR, there was a paradigm shift from bipolarity to unipolarity. There was a "new world order", as George H. W. Bush once flagrantly put it. A lot of the expansionist and interventionist tendencies exhibited from the US, in my opinion, stems from this world order. There always needs to be a degree of hierarchy in a globalised world, and the US simply can not work it out. I think we are living in a terribly dysfunctional international system, and one that needs immediate reform. As bad as the Cold War was for some, the 'disunited' bipolar framework embedded a greater degree of stability in the world as neither of the two superpowers could freely exercise their presence around the world without facing strong condemnation. The same can not be said for today's world, however.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> fpalm fpalm
> 
> That _really_ is the "Voice of Russia". My goodness, the simplicity of some people.


The cartoon commentary was taken from "*VOICES FROM RUSSIA*" which is a blog by a second generation American of Russian descent. I don"t know the origin of the cartoon. It may have been in "Voice of Russia."

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> :geniusI think people need to step back and refrain from the blatant criticism of the West. A lot of it is warranted, I am not denying that, but it is imperative to examine what is happening from a scholarly viewpoint. Following the dissolution of the USSR, there was a paradigm shift from bipolarity to unipolarity. There was a "new world order", as George H. W. Bush once flagrantly put it. A lot of the expansionist and interventionist tendencies exhibited from the US, in my opinion, stems from this world order. There always needs to be a degree of hierarchy in a globalised world, and the US simply can not work it out. I think we are living in a terribly dysfunctional international system, and one that needs immediate reform. As bad as the Cold War was for some, the 'disunited' bipolar framework embedded a greater degree of stability in the world as neither of the two superpowers could freely exercise their presence around the world without facing strong condemnation. The same can not be said for today's world, however.:genius



So, for the simple people like myself, you just said that since the dissolution of the Soviet Union the United States has been an aggressor and guilty of destablizing the world.

It seems that I've been saying the exact same thing! :agree:

- Mike


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> So, for the simple people like myself, you just said that since the dissolution of the Soviet Union the United States has been an aggressor and guilty of destablizing the world.
> 
> It seems that I've been saying the exact same thing! :agree:
> 
> - Mike


To a degree yes, but it is much more intricate than that, and that is what I am trying to say. The USA spreading its presence across the world, uninterruptedly, is not strictly confined to the country being 'evil' or the West being in the wrong. It all stems from a dysfunctional international framework. I feel as if unipolarity is too defective, and hardly germane in today's globalised, multicultural world. Then again, I don't feel we need to return back to an antagonistic bipolar world, as the doctrines of nuclear deterrence unnecessarily exacerbate tensions and impede progress. The Cold War is a perfect example of this. It's a puzzling question and one I'd like to see talked about more often rather than how twisted and imperialistic the West is. Because, frankly, that's getting thin, and it all rather narrow-minded.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> The USA spreading its presence across the world, uninterruptedly, is not strictly confined to the country being 'evil' or the West being in the wrong. It all stems from a dysfunctional international framework. .


A "dysfunctional international framework" that the U.S. created and encourages so that it can continue to spread its empire across the face of the planet.





Despot said:


> Then again, I don't feel we need to return back to an antagonistic bipolar world, as the doctrines of nuclear deterrence unnecessarily exacerbate tensions and impede progress.


Unfortunately, nuclear deterrence and military strength are the only things Washington understands and keep the U.S. at bay. The U.S. is very much like the schoolyard bully who only understands force and leaves you alone only after you've bloodied his nose. A simple, but accurate statement!


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

> A "dysfunctional international framework" that the U.S. created and encourages so that it can continue to spread its empire across the face of the planet.


The US did not 'create' this dysfunctional framework. The _world_ did. Following the collapse of the USSR, unipolarity was seen as the inexorable next step. Liberal democracy was impetuously dubbed as the template of the world that was at 'the end of history'. The world saw the disintegration of the Soviet Union as a _win_ for the United States and capitalism and a _loss_ for the USSR and communism. It was this type of elementary thinking that made the paradigm shift to unipolarity seem ineluctable, and therein lies the problem. It shouldn't have happened this way. 



> Unfortunately, nuclear deterrence and military strength are the only things Washington understands and keep the U.S. at bay


Actually, nuclear deterrence is no long as pertinent in foreign relations and strategic defence as it used to be. The US doesn't need to do anything to keep itself at bay - it acmes world order, and that, alone, is enough. 



> The U.S. is very much like the schoolyard bully who only understands force and leaves you alone only after you've bloodied his nose. A simple, but accurate statement!


There is nothing wrong with that statement, but I am trying to get at _why_ people think this is happening.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> There is nothing wrong with that statement, but I am trying to get at _why_ people think this is happening.


It's not just happening now. Check out the two you tube videos I posted today that chronicle U.S. imperialism over the last 100 years and beyond. 

The difference today is that the Soviet Union is not standing in the way of U.S. imperialist expansion. Without someone to stop them the good old boys on Capitol Hill will continue expanding the American empire under the guise of globalism.

- Mike


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## Oakue (Jul 16, 2012)

roadkill_ said:


> The product of years of exceptionalist neo-bolshevism. Where brainwashing is lightyears ahead in the leftist west of their old Communist friends.


(Y)

They are creaming their pants at the prospects of a re-birth of America vs Russia. Already planning an updated version of scaring 8 years old into hiding under their desks when the no good, low down, dirty Ruskies nuke them.

Pathetic really.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Oakue said:


> (Y)
> 
> They are creaming their pants at the prospects of a re-birth of America vs Russia. Already planning an updated version of scaring 8 years old into hiding under their desks when the no good, low down, dirty Ruskies nuke them.
> 
> Pathetic really.


I severely doubt we'll endure through another Cold War - Russia are not the superpower they used to be. In fact, some economists predict zero growth for the state in 2014 and possible recession. 

Also, Ukraine halts canal water supply to Crimea. Apparently the region is not getting much water from eastern Ukraine and this could prove largely detrimental to the entire area, especially its agriculturalist industries. This gives Putin even _more_ of a reason to annex the east. It's only a matter of time, honestly.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

NEO-NAZI THUGS BUSSED INTO DONETSK - CLASH WITH ANTI-JUNTA PATRIOTS






*Blasts, fierce fighting in Donetsk between pro- and anti-Kiev demos *
Published time: April 28, 2014 16:14

There's gunfire, explosions and brutal clashes in the city of Donetsk in eastern Ukraine as fighting erupted between pro- and anti-govt protesters, RT’s stringer reports from the scene.

14 people have asked for medical assistance, with several hospitalized, after clashes in Donetsk, the regional administration told Interfax-Ukraine news agency. 

According to Novosti Donbassa (Donbas News), eight people have been taken to the city’s Kalinin hospital after violence broke out. 

The website also reports of a policeman being shell-shocked due to handmade grenade exploding near him. 

Pro- and-anti-Kiev protest rallies took place simultaneously in the city. 

According to RT’s stringer Graham Phillips, there were plenty of masked young men on both sides, and they were clearly looking for a fight. 

The police failed to contain the crowd as protesters clashed with each other, using firecrackers, smoke grenades, baseball bats and sticks. 

*A group of about 1,000 neo-Nazi thugs has come to Donetsk from Dnepropetrovsk on Monday to cause provocations,* the press-service of the self-proclaimed People’s Republic of Donetsk told RT. 

“*We were expecting an attack. We had objective information. Really, the guys arrived with baseball bats, sticks and rods. Those were the ultras from Dnepropetrovsk, FC Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk supporters. According to our info, there were also people from FC Dynamo Kyiv fan base. I have no information of any Right Sector involvement,*” Vitaly Ivanov, a press-service member, who was at the scene, stressed. 

*Initially, there were about 200 local anti-Kiev activists, who went out “to meet them halfway in order to regain the initiative*”, he said. 

“*More and more people joined us at an incredible pace as we made our way… When we reached them [pro-Kiev radicals], there were around 1,000 of us*,” Ivanov said. 

According to him, *the ultras were “surrounded by the police, which was brought, especially, for the occasion” as the officers on the scene were from Kirovograd region, but not from the Donetsk force*. 

“We were received with aggression. Smoke grenades were thrown at us. Several people got injured. Then there were a couple of small scuffles with the ultras. And then they just dispersed. *They didn’t expect such a rebuff; that there’ll be so many of us,”* he said. 

There were around 2,000 pro-Kiev demonstrators, who were marching on one of the main streets of the city, RT’s Paula Slier reports from Donetsk. 

When they crossed paths with a smaller rally of anti-government protesters, violent clashes erupted, she said. 

“I was among the group that is anti-Kiev. What I saw was both sides with their faces covered. There were Molotov cocktails and stones being thrown... Among the anti-Kiev crowd people were shouting: ‘Crimea! Donbass! Russia!” Slier reported.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

SCUMBAG NEO-NAZI WESTERN UKRAINIANS MARCH IN LVIV TO HONOR WAFFEN SS


Neo-Nazis march in Lvov 'in honor' of Ukrainian Waffen SS division 

Published time: April 28, 2014 15:06 








[/URL][/IMG]
_Ukrainian ultra-nationalists carry emblems of 14th SS-Volunteer Division "Galician" as they march in the center of the western city of Lviv on April 27, 2014 to mark the 71st anniversary of 14th SS-Volunteer Division "Galician" foundation. (RIA Novosti)_

Hundreds took part in a march to mark the anniversary of the formation of the Ukrainian SS division, which fought for the Nazi’s against the Soviet Union during World War II, in the city of Lvov in the western Ukraine.

*Around five hundred neo-Nazi supporters took to the streets in the center of the city on Sunday to celebrate the creation of the 14th SS-Volunteer Division ‘Galician’ on April 28, 1943*. 

Many of the participants wore embroidered national Ukrainian shirts and held *SS Galician divisional insignias (a yellow lion and three crowns on a blue background)* in their hands. 

The demonstrators made their way from the monument to the Ukrainian nationalist icon of *Stepan Bandera*, and to the local cemetery where a *memorial to the Galician soldiers *is erected. 








[/URL][/IMG]
_*HOW IT WAS THEN AND HOW IT IS NOW IN WESTERN UKRAINE:* Western Ukrainian Nazi supporters march for the SS in Lviv in 1940s. Western Ukrainian neo-Nazis march for the SS in 2014_.

The march was staged by ‘*Native Land’ *and ‘*Student Brotherhood of Stepan Bandera*’ – radical organizations, supported by local motorcycle enthusiasts. 

Despite the organizers promising that the rally would be a silent one, there were a lot of nationalist chants heard in Lvov. 

There were slogans like – “*SS Galician Division*!” “*People of Lvov are the strongest!*” “*Glory to the nation – death to enemies!*” and “*Bandera and Shukhevich are heroes of Ukraine*!”


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

How some people still think these Pro-Russian forces have no radicalist tendencies is far beyond me.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*THANK YOU, EU, USA, IMF...*







[/URL][/IMG]



*UKRAINIAN PEOPLE, IT'S UP TO YOU...*







[/URL][/IMG]
*...RUSSIAN FREEDOM OR AMERICAN SLAVERY!*

*1,000 gryvnia* is *87 bucks *(3,140 Roubles. 96 CAD. 94 AUD. 63 Euros. 57 UK Pounds). That ain’t much for a monthly pension… now, the junta wants people to live on HALF of that. 

What’s that, you say? *What’re Yatsenyuk, Timoshenko, Poroshenko, Turchinov, Avakov, and the Klichkos giving up? Why, nothing at all*, you silly wabbit! *They’re successful people*, and according to the canons of unregulated libertarian crapitalism, *that gives them the right to shit all over everyone else with impunity*. They don’t have to give up ANYTHING. 

By the way, the Western press is trumpeting Yanukovich’s boodle… why, *his haul wasn’t a tithe of what the above named thieves hauled in, and they’re still doing so *(they stole American MREs for the army and sold ‘em on the internet!). 

However, don’t be too harsh on the Ukie oligarchs and their shitbird politco pals… they’re only following the sterling example set by Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Sarah Palin, and Wet Willy Romney. Why, *you’d think that there was something WRONG with corruption and whoring for bucks!* After all, they’re only following in the footsteps of the US Congress (read your Mark Twain… *the rot on the Hill goes WAY back).*

The people, not only of the Ukraine, but of the West, too, have a choice. “Do you want to be heroes or do you want to be consumers?” Yes, what do YOU want? Choose well…

*BMD*
"*VOICES FROM RUSSIA*"


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

^ I respect your viewpoints, Bakto, but that second photo you posted encapsulates everything wrong with this crisis. It is just riddled with bias and black-and-white thinking. It will _never_ be that simple. It's this type of dyad mentality, mostly manifested in the media, which is distorting the facts and turning this into a Cold War_esque_ event.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Those posters are blatant propaganda no matter how much "truth" they have

Also those Nazi chicks are kind of hot

I'm going to have to go to local skin head bar to kind some of those fine racial purity hunnies


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> ^ It will _never_ be that simple. .


*The truth can be that simple! People who don't like the truth attempt to complicate and obfuscate the issues. Here are some more "simple" truths.
*







[/URL][/IMG]


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> *The truth can be that simple! People who don't like the truth attempt to complicate and obfuscate the issues. Here are some more "simple" truths.
> *
> 
> 
> ...


What about the numerous _citizens_, predominately in the west of the country, who _want_ to be part of the EU? You know, those individuals who protested all the way back in November of last year? Are you discounting their views? What about the Ukrainian mayor in one of the eastern cities who got shot in the back after espousing the current pro-Western government? This is a complex issue, with positives and benefits on both end of the spectrum. I think those images you are posting is detrimental to the merits of this thread, and sort of turns it into a charade of good versus bad.

After all, you've said on numerous occasions now that all you do is post articles and videos and let the readers of this thread form their own opinions based on the content supplied. Isn't it a bit biased to post images that just reek of partiality? It's like me posting a picture of Putin with a Hitler moustache, or one of those ones that depict a local in Crimea voting with a gun to his head. I just feel it is not needed.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> [/URL][/IMG]


This is really Soviet-like propaganda. If you intended to use it seriously, then I am just speechless. And do you seriously think that ALL Americans are fat 12-year-olds and that ALL Russians are 13th century knights on horses?

And it can be easily reversed.

*America* or *Russia*







or http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/33f/a43/3c7/resized/drunk-russian-*******-meme-generator-only-when-this-drunk-14c971.jpg


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> This is really Soviet-like propaganda. If you intended to use it seriously, then I am just speechless. And do you seriously think that ALL Americans are fat 12-year-olds and that ALL Russians are 13th century knights on horses?
> ]


It gets the point across. And, when were you in the U.S. last? I could quote statistics that 33% of children under 13 are obese and that close to 70% of American adults are obese or overweight. However, it would be better if you took a trip here and looked around for yourself. 

They call Minnesota and Wisconsin the "Heartland." It would more accurate to call it "*FATLAND*!"

However, the American people are not entirely to blame for their present mental and physical condition. In addition to decades of anti-Russian propaganda from the government, they have been the targets of decades of corporate propaganda urging them to eat, consume, eat, consume... And, eat what? Processed shit from McDonald's, Burger King, etc.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> What about the numerous _citizens_, predominately in the west of the country, who _want_ to be part of the EU? You know, those individuals who protested all the way back in November of last year? .


What about them? If their view was the view of the majority of Ukrainian people they simply would have waited 12 months for elections and voted out Yanukovich and the government. Instead, they chose to riot, toss molotov cocktails, kill police officers, destroy property, and overthrow the *ELECTED* government.

One of the *simple truths* that some try to cover up or ignore is that Western Ukraine is "*Nazi-Land*" and supplied the shock troops for the Maidan insurgency and overthrow of the *ELECTED* government.




Despot said:


> What about the Ukrainian mayor in one of the eastern cities who got shot in the back after espousing the current pro-Western government? This is a complex issue, with positives and benefits on both end of the spectrum. I think those images you are posting is detrimental to the merits of this thread, and sort of turns it into a charade of good versus bad.
> .


It's still not clear who shot the Ukrainian mayor. 

The *simple truth* is that the Western Ukrainian ultra-nationalists with the full backing and support of the United States initiated this situation with an insurgency that overthrew the legitimate *ELECTED* government. 

The *simple truth* is that everything that has occurred after the Kiev junta took power is a direct result of that insurgency and coup d'etat.

There is no charade of good vs. evil here. If you believe in democratic elections, the will of the people, and constitutional law then the the Kiev junta, the U.S., and the E.U. are *EVIL*. 

Blaming the patriots fighting for their independence and blaming Russian reaction to U.S./NATO plans to seize Ukraine is just a means to cover up the *simple truth* - the Western Ukrainians, U.S., and E.U. overthrew the legitimate government. And, *everything that has transpired since that overthow is on the heads of those who initiated this travesty! 
*




Despot said:


> Isn't it a bit biased to post images that just reek of partiality? It's like me posting a picture of Putin with a Hitler moustache, or one of those ones that depict a local in Crimea voting with a gun to his head. I just feel it is not needed.


Partiality? Absolutely! I am 100% for the Ukrainian patriots fighting for independence from the Kiev junta's illegal government.

At least I admit it. *I don't feign impartiality *when, in fact, I am in support of one side of the conflict.

So, you, Stevie, and Tomas don't like the "propaganda" pictures that I posted. Now you know how I and millions of people feel when the Western media disseminates those pictures of Crimean citizens voting with a gun to their head, Putin with a Hitler moustache, etc. List members can see those images everywhere in the West. It's about time they got a chance to see the other side of the coin.


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)




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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

:shocked:


Al Borland said:


>


Let's have a look closer look at this. 

First of all, the title of the series itself makes it pretty clear that this is *NOT* objective journalism. "*RUSSIAN ROULETTE, The Invasion of Ukraine*" would give even the least astute among us a clue as to whose side *VICE NEWS* is on. :agree:

Simon doesn't look like he was abused during his captivity. "Maybe" doesn't quite prove why he was taken. 

Irma doesn't look like she has missed too many meals while being held "hostage." In fact, the patriots must be feeding her well. She didn't seem distraught in the least and appears to thrive on her "captivity." As the Ukrainian patriot stated, "We aren't holding her captive. She is our invited guest." I hope she is enjoying the "process." :lol

What's the problem with the press conference? They warned them that if they sent out false propaganda and lies their press credentials would be revoked and they'd be kicked out of town. They didn't wave an AK-47 under their noses and threaten to beat or kill them like they do in Western Ukraine to journalists and officials not towing the line. :shocked:

Simon, what you're really saying is that it is "heating up for western, pro-junta propagandists!"

Simon is full of shit. If he was beaten he would have some bruises and he would be showing them off to the camera. Where are the bruises to his ribs and back from the "kicking." Where are his cauliflower ears from his "ear beating." It sounds to me like Simon got pushed around a bit, but is such a pussy he considers it a "beating." :bs:

He admits that he was well fed and had plenty of water to drink. He wasn't tortured and wasn't even beaten - just pushed around.

I've heard Simon speak Russian in some of the other Vice News videos the anti-Russian, pro-junta list members have posted here. To be quite candid, his Russian *STINKS*! He is not someone who should have any credibility at all when it comes to judging the origins of various Ukrainian and Russian accents. :argh:

Simon was lucky he was picked up by the patriotic forces. If he got on the wrong side of the Right Sector and the Kiev Junta he wouldn't have lived to tell his tale. :agree:

- Mike


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Batko10 said:


> :shocked:
> 
> Let's have a look closer look at this.
> 
> ...


There not trying to hid their bias

They are just showing you the other side of coin


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## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

The crucial day on which everything went wrong in this arena was February 22, which saw the European Union-brokered deal to place Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych from power recklessly altered into a coup which enraged Vladimir Putin. Putin had just finished persuading Yanukovych to sign his _de facto_ abdication, and now he was being humiliated by the West, which seemed to be seeking the manifestation of force in order to twist Putin's arm to acquiesce. Putin--who, needless to say, is no sweetheart--replied to this with the entire Crimean maneuver despite the fact that rejoining the peninsula with Russia is not a particularly impressive accomplishment on its own terms. However, Putin understood that a collaboration between the Victoria Nuland-anointed and -appointed figurehead, Arseniy Yatsenyuk and the vehement Western Ukrainian nationalists of Svoboda, Right Sector, appears to not be in the works, making his Crimean gamble pay off handsomely thus far. And that is why there are no Russian soldiers being sent to Odessa, Donetsk or Kharkov. 

Putin is intelligent, and he knows perfectly well that the best course of action is to do little: he has made it plain that he supports the aforementioned regions in their efforts to engender constitutional reforms which demand that the Ukrainian nation-state possesses little in the way of a strong central government. Putin's endeavoring to allow the "new boss" in Ukraine to create disarray, for there will be no European Union-backed bailout since Germany under Angela Merkel is exhausted from bailing out countries. The resulting endgame is that financial obduracy will be Ukraine's fate for a while, and Ukraine is already a terribly poor nation. 

Kiev will now be compelled to pay market rate for Russian natural gas while the Crimea is already rapidly transforming itself into a minor bastion of relative wealth. Almost all pensions and public sector emoluments have already doubled to Russian standards; meanwhile, genuinely enormous projects to update infrastructure like the Kerch Strait bridge already underway will increase employment. 

The entire matter is an almost complete Putin success while agitating Western governments prattle on and on about his outlaw ways. It's frankly more amusing than anything else.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

DesolationRow said:


> The crucial day on which everything went wrong in this arena was February 22, which saw the European Union-brokered deal to place Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych from power recklessly altered into a coup which enraged Vladimir Putin. Putin had just finished persuading Yanukovych to sign his _de facto_ abdication, and now he was being humiliated by the West, which seemed to be seeking the manifestation of force in order to twist Putin's arm to acquiesce. Putin--who, needless to say, is no sweetheart--replied to this with the entire Crimean maneuver despite the fact that rejoining the peninsula with Russia is not a particularly impressive accomplishment on its own terms. However, Putin understood that a collaboration between the Victoria Nuland-anointed and -appointed figurehead, Arseniy Yatsenyuk and the vehement Western Ukrainian nationalists of Svoboda, Right Sector, appears to not be in the works, making his Crimean gamble pay off handsomely thus far. And that is why there are no Russian soldiers being sent to Odessa, Donetsk or Kharkov.
> 
> Putin is intelligent, and he knows perfectly well that the best course of action is to do little: he has made it plain that he supports the aforementioned regions in their efforts to engender constitutional reforms which demand that the Ukrainian nation-state possesses little in the way of a strong central government. Putin's endeavoring to allow the "new boss" in Ukraine to create disarray, for there will be no European Union-backed bailout since Germany under Angela Merkel is exhausted from bailing out countries. The resulting endgame is that financial obduracy will be Ukraine's fate for a while, and Ukraine is already a terribly poor nation.
> 
> ...


When put like that the plan is rather clever 

Putin grabbed the area of least resistance and an area of relatively high wealth which would be far easier to expand and improve and left the more rural and poor parts to the EU who has been slowing down on bailouts and financial donations 

Russia can use the area to show how superior they are at aiding and improving their allies making it easier to gain support with very little cost to Russia itself


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

stevefox1200 said:


> There not trying to hid their bias
> 
> They are just showing you the other side of coin


That's the side that every western news outlet shows. For them it's not the other side of the coin, it's the only side!

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

It took *ILYA REPIN* 11 years to complete his painting "*The Zaporozhtsy Cossacks Write a Letter to the Turkish Sultan*" / "*Запорожцы пишут письмо турецкому султану.*" 








[/URL][/IMG]

The Zaporozhtsy were a powerful band of Cossacks in eastern Ukraine that fought the Poles until they were driven out of Ukraine. (On the other hand, the people in Western Ukraine bowed down to the Poles and accepted the Unia and Polish domination.) Today the people in Zaporozhiya region are standing up to the Kiev junta and Western Ukrainian neo-fascists along with the rest of eastern and southern Ukraine.

Tyahnibok, Yarosh, Parubiy, Yatsiniuk and the other "leaders" of the present day Kiev junta may picture themselves as some kind of modern day Ukrainian heroes like the Zaporozhtsy. Some of the neo-Nazi young people in Lviv are wearing the traditional Zaporozhtsy scalplock (even though it has nothing to do with their Western Ukrainian culture). 

In fact, they are a bunch of clowns and are aptly depicted on the caricature below. Hey, it may be propaganda, but this is damn funny! It's alot more clever than western drawings with Putin in a Hitler moustache!!! :lol








[/URL][/IMG]


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Oh, great, let's antagonize the Polish now. Batko, are you just gonna attack everyone that you don't support? Because that's exactly what you're doing.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Oh, great, let's antagonize the Polish now. Batko, are you just gonna attack everyone that you don't support? Because that's exactly what you're doing.


I'm not antagonizing the Poles, just stating historical fact regarding the Zaporozhtsy and their wars with the Poles.

I meant to antagonize the Western Ukrainians and the Kiev junta! *Apologies to any Poles who felt antagonized*! 

Jeszcze Polska nie zginęła 

- Mike


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

> What about them? If their view was the view of the majority of Ukrainian people they simply would have waited 12 months for elections and voted out Yanukovich and the government. Instead, they chose to riot, toss molotov cocktails, kill police officers, destroy property, and overthrow the ELECTED government.


Do you condemn radical uprisings? What transpired in Ukraine had fanatical tendencies, yes, but a nation can only take so much venality and cupidity before it manifests into a progressive rebellion. When Yanukovich declined the EU deal, many in the nation were exasperated, as they felt like Yanukovich was succumbing and capitulating to Russian pressure. Whether this is true or not holds no relevance. Twelve months is an awful long time, as well, and asking them to stay contained for a year is intrinsically oppressive, and contradictory to your argument. 



> One of the simple truths that some try to cover up or ignore is that Western Ukraine is "Nazi-Land" and supplied the shock troops for the Maidan insurgency and overthrow of the ELECTED government.


Western media is covering this up. This is hardly a surprise, but I am not talking about the government that seized power, but merely the core basis of the revolt. You're doing the opposite. 



> It's still not clear who shot the Ukrainian mayor.


But it is obvious.



> The simple truth is that the Western Ukrainian ultra-nationalists with the full backing and support of the United States initiated this situation with an insurgency that overthrew the legitimate ELECTED government.


Backing and supporting? I thought the US intricately _engineered_ these protests as part of some mastermind agenda? Also, how many times do I have to say it? *EACH* coup results in the overthrow of a democratically elected or internationally recognised government. That is the *POINT* of a coup - a sudden shift in power. Why are you so vehemently conveying this point? You're acting as if it has never happened in history before.



> The simple truth is that everything that has occurred after the Kiev junta took power is a direct result of that insurgency and coup d'etat.


Of course everything that transpires in Ukraine is a result of the current revolution. This is hardly a surprise.



> There is no charade of good vs. evil here. If you believe in democratic elections, the will of the people, and constitutional law then the the Kiev junta, the U.S., and the E.U. are EVIL


With this type of rigidly facile thinking, you should apply for a job at RT. The _point_ of radical uprisings is to fragment things like constitutional restraint. Why wait twelve months? The people of Ukraine, predominately in the western bloc, have an intrinsic *RIGHT* to repel against venal and oppressive government. Saying they should have stayed restraint and wait one year for elections is tyrannous and *undemocratic*. Note that I am *NOT* talking about the currently installed government that has seized power, but the *UPRISING* in which various citizens of the country took part in. As I have said many times, seldom is a newly-installed government in a coup reflective of the inceptive tenets of the coup. You seem to always overlook this point. 



> Partiality? Absolutely! I am 100% for the Ukrainian patriots fighting for independence from the Kiev junta's illegal government.


Good for you. I'm glad you've laid your agenda out on the plate. Just don't forget there are many in Ukraine who *SUPPORT* this pro-Western government, and will undoubtedly vote for them in the upcoming election. We must respect their wishes, too. 



> Now you know how I and millions of people feel when the Western media disseminates those pictures of Crimean citizens voting with a gun to their head, Putin with a Hitler moustache, etc. List members can see those images everywhere in the West. It's about time they got a chance to see the other side of the coin.


So the reason why you elected to post this propagandic material is to combat the propaganda in Western media? So you agree it's riddled with hyperbole and overt simplicity?


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> In addition to decades of anti-Russian propaganda from the government


You're acting as if Russia don't have any sweeping anti-West sentiments, and their government doesn't openly propagandise the US.


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Batko10 said:


> :shocked:
> 
> Let's have a look closer look at this.
> 
> ...


Simon was born in the USSR, Admittedly I only know a few Rus/Ukr phrases but how so does his Russian suck? The people he's spoken to in the vids don't seem to have trouble understanding what he says?

He didn't show off his marks cos maybe he's not a media whore looking for a quick buck?

Anyway do you think him being American influenced his release? Ya'know not wanting to risk the PR disaster with American dictator Kerry?


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

A very good opinion piece I came across. Written by Balazs Jarabik:



> The crisis in eastern Ukraine is far from over.
> On Monday, the moderate mayor of Kharkiv, the country’s second-largest city, was shot while riding his bicycle. Pro-Russian separatists have seized another government building in the region, and some are holding hostage a group of European military observers. The United States, convinced the chaos is all being driven by Moscow, slapped new sanctions on top Russian officials Monday, and the Europeans will probably go along. To understand what’s driving this crisis, though, it’s necessary to look at the region the way its residents see it, not just the way it appears to the outside world.
> 
> The dominant Western narrative is all too familiar: It’s good guys vs. bad guys. Russian aggression against Ukraine and covert backing for separatist groups are the main sources of conflict, creating a very real danger that southeastern Ukraine may soon erupt into full-scale war or split off and join Russia. Throw in the kidnappings of journalists, targeted killings of local politicians and residents and renewed Ukrainian military operations against the separatists, and the whole region appears to be in flames—and it’s all Moscow’s doing. As U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry put it over the weekend, the Kremlin is behind the “distraction, deception and destabilization” in eastern Ukraine.
> ...


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Al Borland said:


> Simon was born in the USSR, Admittedly I only know a few Rus/Ukr phrases but how so does his Russian suck? The people he's spoken to in the vids don't seem to have trouble understanding what he says?
> 
> He didn't show off his marks cos maybe he's not a media whore looking for a quick buck?
> 
> Anyway do you think him being American influenced his release? Ya'know not wanting to risk the PR disaster with American dictator Kerry?


*I might be wrong on Simon's Russian*. We've had so many videos and posts on this thread that I may have confused him with another journalist that was talking to some soldiers. It even may be one of the videos that I posted. I remember thinking how the guy couldn't string together a grammatically correct sentence if his life depended on it. I'll look for one of the posted Vice News videos where Simon speaks in Russian.

He didn't show off his bruises, because he didn't have any. The very nature of his job makes him a "media whore." Vice News is looking for anything to make the patriots look bad and if Simon was really beaten they would have been out there parading his injuries in front of the camera.

I don't think they give a shit if someone is American or not. In fact, judging from the tone of the speakers (including the women) one might be better off *NOT* being American. They know the U.S. is behind this, so why suck up to Americans??? 

- Mike


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Batko10 said:


> *I might be wrong on Simon's Russian*. We've had so many videos and posts on this thread that I may have confused him with another journalist that was talking to some soldiers. It even may be one of the videos that I posted. I remember thinking how the guy couldn't string together a grammatically correct sentence if his life depended on it. I'll look for one of the posted Vice News videos where Simon speaks in Russian.
> 
> He didn't show off his bruises, because he didn't have any. The very nature of his job makes him a "media whore." Vice News is looking for anything to make the patriots look bad and if Simon was really beaten they would have been out there parading his injuries in front of the camera.
> 
> ...


Here Simon speaks Russian starting around 47 seconds in


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Al Borland said:


> Here Simon speaks Russian starting around 47 seconds in


*I stand corrected!* His Russian is perfect in this video. I was thinking of some other journalist in a different video.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Al Borland said:


> Here Simon speaks Russian starting around 47 seconds in


His Russian is almost perfect. He even speaks without any accent.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_*What transpired in Ukraine had fanatical tendencies, yes, but a nation can only take so much venality and cupidity before it manifests into a progressive rebellion.*_ 

The Ukraine took as much or more "venality" and "cupiditiy" from the previous regimes that were supported by the West. The "venality" and "cupidity" of Yanukovich were not the reason he was demonized by the West and overthrown by the U.S. engineered regime change. Yushchenko and Tymoshenko were even bigger crooks than Yanukovich, but somehow that isn't mentioned by Washington. 

Yeltsin's regime in Russia operated under the most undemocratic principles and used the army to shell the Duma into submission in October of 1993, because the Russian parliamentarians would not pass his draconian laws. However, Yeltsin was by praised by the U.S. as a democratic, freedom loving leader. While no democrat by any stretch of the imagination, Putin never used the army to shell the Duma into submission. Yet, somehow he is the "bad guy" and Yeltsin was the "good guy" in American political mythology. 




_*Twelve months is an awful long time, as well, and asking them to stay contained for a year is intrinsically oppressive, and contradictory to your argument.* _

Nonsense! And, forcing the East and South to remain under the yoke of the Kiev junta is not oppressive and contradictory to your argument???




_*Western media is covering this up. This is hardly a surprise, but I am not talking about the government that seized power, but merely the core basis of the revolt. You're doing the opposite*._

Your idea of the "core basis" of the insurgency differs from mine. The core was formed by the neo-Nazi thugs that were brought in from Lviv, Ivano-Frankivsk, and other areas of Western Ukraine to be used as the "shock troops" in the street battles and demonstrations. The "regular" people were just there as window dressing and to add to the numbers to make the insurgency look like everyone supported it. 




_*Backing and supporting? I thought the US intricately engineered these protests as part of some mastermind agenda? Also, how many times do I have to say it? EACH coup results in the overthrow of a democratically elected or internationally recognised government. That is the POINT of a coup - a sudden shift in power. Why are you so vehemently conveying this point? You're acting as if it has never happened in history before*.
_
Yes, the coup was another regime change engineered by the U.S. It was also "backed" and "supported" by Washington. Why do you feel you need to jump on the fact I didn't mention that? 

I "vehemently convey" the point to underscore the hypocrisy of the self righteous United States that put the present unelected, illegal government into power. The western media never mentions it and the western public has a very short memory. Constant reminding that the government in Kiev is a junta composed of Washington's hand puppets can't hurt. 




_*With this type of rigidly facile thinking, you should apply for a job at RT. The point of radical uprisings is to fragment things like constitutional restraint. Why wait twelve months? The people of Ukraine, predominately in the western bloc, have an intrinsic RIGHT to repel against venal and oppressive government. Saying they should have stayed restraint and wait one year for elections is tyrannous and undemocratic. Note that I am NOT talking about the currently installed government that has seized power, but the UPRISING in which various citizens of the country took part in. As I have said many times, seldom is a newly-installed government in a coup reflective of the inceptive tenets of the coup. You seem to always overlook this p*oint. 
_
And, you should apply for a job at Langley (if you don't already work for the CIA). You are very good at making yourself appear neutral, when in fact you support the U.S. position. 

This is why American propaganda was always superior to Russian propaganda. Russians are straightforward - what you see is what you get. Americans are just like you - pretend to be democratic and open minded, but cleverly obfuscate and push through a totally different agenda.

This time the "newly-installed government" is 100% reflective of "the inceptive tenets" of the coup. 




_*Good for you. I'm glad you've laid your agenda out on the plate. Just don't forget there are many in Ukraine who SUPPORT this pro-Western government, and will undoubtedly vote for them in the upcoming election. We must respect their wishes, too*.
_
I don't think that I ever denied what my position is, or attempted to disguise it. It's not a revelation by any means.

So, we should respect the wishes of the Western Ukrainians, but not the wishes of the Ukrainians people in the east and south??? There are as many of them, if not more, than the those who support the junta and the West. The American controlled Kiev junta doesn't give a shit about them! 




_*So the reason why you elected to post this propagandic material is to combat the propaganda in Western media? So you agree it's riddled with hyperbole and overt simplicity*?_

The first photo of the old babushka and commentary underneath is *DEAD SERIOUS*! 

The second much less so. I found it amusing and no worse than the typical western digs at Russia. 

The last one where the "Junta Writes a Letter to Putin" was simply hilarious. :lol I have a feeling that Washington and Langley consider the Kiev junta leadership a pack of morons, and regret ever getting involved with them. Back in D.C. they are probably sadly shaking their heads in agreement with that caricature! 

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> His Russian is almost perfect. He even speaks without any accent.


He has no foreign accent at all. However, there is something about his speech that gives me the impression that he lived as child in an English speaking country. When he speaks he kind of sounds like my son who came to the States at the age of 6 (and is now 24). I can't put my finger on it.

In any case, I envy both him and my son. Having been born in the States I have a slight accent when I speak Russian and it pisses me off. At least it isn't an American accent, thank God. Listening to Americans who learned to speak Russian is torture. According to most Russians my accent is vaguely Baltic. I don't know, that might be even worse! (*Tomas, just kidding, just kidding*!):lol 

- Mike


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

To break the tension whilst staying on topic :klopp2


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

> The Ukraine took as much or more "venality" and "cupiditiy" from the previous regimes that were supported by the West. The "venality" and "cupidity" of Yanukovich were not the reason he was demonized by the West and overthrown by the U.S. engineered regime change. Yushchenko and Tymoshenko were even bigger crooks than Yanukovich, but somehow that isn't mentioned by Washington.


I agree. Ukraine has endured unparalleled misconduct ever since the dissolution of the Soviet Union. If you study the sociohistorical processes of revolutions, you'll see these things build up over time, and there is only so much venality one can take before radical rebellion becomes inexorable. Yanukovich's rejection of the EU deal was met with vexation by most western Ukrainians, and it was this very decision that instituted -- what was ultimately -- a coup. 



> Yeltsin's regime in Russia operated under the most undemocratic principles and used the army to shell the Duma into submission in October of 1993, because the Russian parliamentarians would not pass his draconian laws. However, Yeltsin was by praised by the U.S. as a democratic, freedom loving leader. While no democrat by any stretch of the imagination, Putin never used the army to shell the Duma into submission. Yet, somehow he is the "bad guy" and Yeltsin was the "good guy" in American political mythology.


I'm in the early process of writing a paper about Boris Yeltsin and the Western-orchestrated democracy that took place after the USSR collapsed. I have nothing but censure for the way this period of democratic transparency was handled, and vehemently opposed the abrupt and highly dysfunction implementation -- of what Western scholars dub as -- 'shock therapy', not to mention Yeltsin's ineptness as a leader. He was a puppet, and himself, alongside the United States, nearly impoverished Russia and brought it upon destitution. 



> Nonsense! And, forcing the East and South to remain under the yoke of the Kiev junta is not oppressive and contradictory to your argument???


If you're going to assert that the upcoming elections are going to be fraudulent whilst not second-guessing the legitimacy of the Crimea referendum, then yes, we're going to get nowhere. Regardless, I support a two-state solution. The western Ukraine bloc can align themselves with EU powers and the US whilst the east can strengthen ties with Russia. I don't, however, support an annexation of eastern Ukraine. It _must_ still remain a sovereign state.



> The "regular" people were just there as window dressing and to add to the numbers to make the insurgency look like everyone supported it.


Yes, your core basis of the insurgence holds great disparity. There is no point refuting or merely challenging this assertion, in spite of how much I disagree with it. You believe what you want to believe. 



> Yes, the coup was another regime change engineered by the U.S. It was also "backed" and "supported" by Washington. Why do you feel you need to jump on the fact I didn't mention that?


You have freely dubbed the Ukrainian revolution as US-engineered throughout a majority of this thread yet you've offered no substantive evidence to corroborate your argument. Feel free to _subscribe_ to this opinion, but if otherwise *proven*, it is conjectural in nature and not very persuasive. It might be to other people, but not myself. My gut tells me the pro-Russian forces in eastern Ukraine are externally funded by the Kremlin. I, however, can not prove this. Therefore, I do not construct my argument around this ill-founded premise, and stick to the facts and not any political theorisations. 



> the point to underscore the hypocrisy of the self righteous United States that put the present unelected, illegal government into power.


I guess every single coup in history has 'underscores' of 'hypocrisy', then.



> (if you don't already work for the CIA.)


Stop it, you sound like an Alex Jones supporter.



> You are very good at making yourself appear neutral, when in fact you support the U.S. position.


Earlier in this thread, you asserted that I support the US position. I asked for you to quote any portions of my previous postings to corroborate your claim. You ignored the request. I would like for you to actually _back_ something up for a change. I support a two-state solution, and since the beginning of this thread, I have *CONSTANTLY* stated that I do *NOT* support the coup, but the ordinary _citizens_ in this rebellion who rebelled against a venal government and the subsequent undercurrents of oppression that has plagued Ukraine's political landscape for so many years. *The Manowarrior* has been saying the same thing, too. You simply refuse to accept this. You seem to adopt the dyadic mentality of "you are either with us or against us". Well, sorry, for myself, it is _not_ that simple. It may be for Putin and Obama but not myself.



> This time the "newly-installed government" is 100% reflective of "the inceptive tenets" of the coup.


No. No it is not. Not every single member of this revolution subscribe to far-right tenets. Not every single member of this revolution posses anti-Semitic sentiments. Not every single member of this revolution are violent or ultra-nationalists. Your logic is flawed, sir. 



> So, we should respect the wishes of the Western Ukrainians, but not the wishes of the Ukrainians people in the east and south??? There are as many of them, if not more, than the those who support the junta and the West. The American controlled Kiev junta doesn't give a shit about them!


I support a two-state solution. However, that does _not_ look feasible in the foreseeable future. It's an intricate issue since Ukraine is becoming increasingly divergent, ideologically, and hostility is growing. I would encourage greater autonomy in the eastern Ukrainian regions as a start. Whether the current government, with its Western-backed leaders, _attest_ to this is a different question, however.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> I'm in the early process of writing a paper about Boris Yeltsin and the Western-orchestrated democracy that took place after the USSR collapsed. I have nothing but censure for the way this period of democratic transparency was handled, and vehemently opposed the abrupt and highly dysfunction implementation -- of what Western scholars dub as -- 'shock therapy', not to mention Yeltsin's ineptness as a leader. He was a puppet, and himself, alongside the United States, nearly impoverished Russia and brought it upon destitution.
> .


*I knew that sooner or later we would agree on something!* 

I lived in Moscow from 1990-1996 and saw the whole thing with my own two eyes. If I didn't have a wife and a little kid (and being an American foreigner) I would have gone into the streets and fought Yeltsin's goons myself and, probably, not have survived to be on line arguing with you. 

When I got up to go to work the morning of the assault on the Duma in October 1993 I couldn't believe my eyes. We lived on the southwest edge of the city by the last metro station aptly named "Yugo-zapadnaya," i.e. "Southwest." The first thing I would normally see when I exited my door would be Archangel Michael Russian Orthodox Church across the street. That morning it wasn't visible. Fucking Yeltsin's trucks and tanks were rolling down Prospekt Vernadskova blocking everything.

I actually made it to the Dom Sovietov where the Duma was barricaded and under seige before the army. (That Moscow metro was efficient to the very second!) The rest is history, but I will never forget seeing and hearing the cannon fire of the tanks blasting away at the parliament building.

Yeltsin was a drunken, stone-cold murderer. Whatever your opinion about the Soviet Army, it is a fact that Marshal Akhromeyev was respected and actually liked to some degree by almost everyone - including the American and NATO military leaders. 

He was found hung by the neck during Yeltsin's take-over. The official story is that he committed suicide. I met the man and spoke with him. In my opinion, he was not a man who would take his own life. I believe that he would die fighting for what he believed in without a second thought. But, I will never believe he killed himself. And, if he was going to commit suicide he would have done it like an officer and shot himself - not hang himself by the neck like a dog! 

I could go on for hours about Yeltsin, Gaidar, and the rest of them. However, gotta run. 

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

[/URL][/IMG]
_Russian President Vladimir Putin has arrived in Belarus to take part in the meeting of the Supreme Eurasian Economic Council slated for 29 April_.

Putin arrives in Belarus for Troika summit

29.04.2014 15:00

MINSK, 29 April (BelTA) – Russian President Vladimir Putin has arrived in Belarus to take part in the meeting of the Supreme Eurasian Economic Council on 29 April, BelTA has learnt.

The agenda of the summit will include the consideration of the progress made in the work on the draft Eurasian Economic Union Treaty and the implementation of the action plan (roadmap) on Armenia’s accession to the Customs Union and the Single Economic Space of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Russia.

Alexander Lukashenko is expected to hold bilateral meetings with Russian President Vladimir Putin and President of Kazakhstan Nursultan Nazarbayev. 












[/URL][/IMG]
_A meeting of the Presidents of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Russia is taking place in Minsk.
_








[/URL][/IMG]
_Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko and President Nursultan Nazarbayev of Kazakhstan exchanged views on the prospects for the establishment of the Eurasian Economic Union. The two leaders met prior to the Supreme Eurasian Economic Council summit on 29 April_.

Presidents of Belarus, Kazakhstan, Russia meet in Minsk

29.04.2014 17:55

MINSK, 29 April (BelTA) – A meeting of the presidents of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Russia opened in Minsk, BelTA learned. Prior to the summit the three heads of state had a two-hour informal meeting.

Opening the meeting of the Supreme Eurasian Economic Council, Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko recalled that in due time the experts were instructed to prepare a draft treaty on the Eurasian Economic Union. It was agreed back then that if there were insurmountable obstacles requiring the attention of the presidents, the leaders of the three countries would meet at any time.

Alexander Lukashenko offered his counterparts to make introductory statements and proceed to an extended meeting with the participation of specialists to discuss the concrete issues and current holdbacks. 












[/URL][/IMG]
_An extended meeting of the Supreme Eurasian Economic Council in Minsk_

Draft agreement on Armenia’s Customs Union entry by 1 June

29.04.2014 21:27

MINSK, 29 April (BelTA) – The agreement on Armenia’s accession to the Customs Union and the Single Economic Space will be drafted by 1 June 2014, Chairman of the Board of the Eurasian Economic Commission Viktor Khristenko said following the Supreme Eurasian Economic Council meeting on 29 April, BelTA has learned.

Viktor Khristenko noted that the document should be ready for consideration of the heads of state at the Supreme Eurasian Economic Council meeting in Astana on 29 May.

According to Viktor Khristenko, the Presidents approved the work on the roadmap for Armenia’s accession to the Customs Union and the Single Economic Space. A total of 111 out of 126 points of the roadmap have been fulfilled so far. Fifteen of them are included into Armenia’s CU/SES entry agreement. 






Khristenko: All major issues on draft EEU treaty settled

29.04.2014 21:23

MINSK, 29 April (BelTA) - All major issues on the draft treaty on the Eurasian Economic Union (EEU) have been settled, Chairman of the Board of the Eurasian Economic Commission Viktor Khristenko said after the extended session of the Supreme Eurasian Economic Council in Minsk, BelTA has learnt.

"All major issues on the draft treaty have been resolved," said Victor Khristenko.

He noted that some bilateral issues still remain. Their discussion will continue.

The presidents instructed to finalize all the details of the treaty in the shortest time possible and submit the document for signing at the Troika summit in Astana on 29 May. This task has been set before the Eurasian Economic Commission and the governments of the three countries.

Viktor Khristenko noted that the draft treaty on the Eurasian Economic Union includes a big number of codified documents of the Customs Union and the Single Economic Space, about 70 international treaties, and also the new rules which have been developed in furtherance of the draft treaty and which apply to the segments of the common market which were not there earlier, particularly the energy sector, the market for services.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Ukraine Unable to Control Situation in East – Acting President








[/URL][/IMG]
_Kiev junta's acting president - Olexander Turchynov_

KIEV, April 30 (RIA Novosti) – Acting Ukrainian President Olexander Turchynov on Wednesday confessed that security officials are incapable of taking under control the situation in eastern Urkaine’s Luhansk and Donetsk regions.

“*I want to say honestly that today the power structures are incapable of operatively taking control of the situation in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions,*” Turchynov said.

Turchynov said the situation in eastern Ukraine continues to be tense, adding that *Ukrainian authorities have no control over the situation in the city of Slaviansk in the Donetsk region*.

“The authorities today are not controlling the situation [in Slaviansk], as well as in the rest of the territory of the Donetsk region,” he said.

Ukraine’s UNIAN news agency quoted Turchynov as saying that the armed forces are in “full operational readiness” amid the threat that Russia could wage a continental war against Ukraine.

Eastern Ukraine has been hit by pro-federalization protests in mainly Russian-speaking regions. The Ukrainian government earlier announced a special operation to crack down on the unrest. Moscow has denounced Kiev’s actions.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

100,000 March Through Moscow For May Day

AP 
Posted: 05/01/2014 8:14 am EDT








[/URL][/IMG]

MOSCOW (AP) — About 100,000 people have marched through Red Square to celebrate May Day, the first time the annual parade has been held on the vast cobblestoned square outside the Kremlin since the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991.

In keeping with Soviet-era traditions, Thursday's parade was organized by trade unions and honored the working man. But it also celebrated Russia's annexation of Crimea and was seen as part of President Vladimir Putin's efforts to stoke patriotic feelings.

Marchers held up signs saying "Let's go to Crimea for vacation" and "Putin is right." Russian flags fluttered through the crowd.

In past years, only the Communists have continued to keep up the May Day tradition with parades and rallies.

In addition to the government sponsored march and rally, the KPRF was out in force and staged its own May Day march and rally as in previous years after the dissolution of the Soviet Union.








[/URL][/IMG]








[/URL][/IMG]








[/URL][/IMG]








[/URL][/IMG]


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

fpalm Soviet flags. Really shows how much Russians still live in the past and can't get over the fact that Soviet Union is no more.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> fpalm Soviet flags. Really shows how much Russians still live in the past and can't get over the fact that Soviet Union is no more.


If you read as well as look you will see that the KPRF held a separate march and rally. Since they are communists it is completely understandable why they are marching with the Hammer & Sickle. :agree:

By the way, the May Day marches and rallies around the world have plenty of Hammers & Sickles displayed. This is not only a Moscow phenomenon! :faint:

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> If you read as well as look you will see that the KPRF held a separate march and rally. Since they are communists it is completely understandable why they are marching with the Hammer & Sickle. :agree:
> 
> By the way, the May Day marches and rallies around the world have plenty of Hammers & Sickles displayed. This not only a Moscow phenomenon! :faint:
> 
> - Mike


Whatever, I'm just waiting for May 9th parade. I hope I can be home to watch it live. This year's parade should be interesting.


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## TheJack (Mar 13, 2006)

The Manowarrior said:


> fpalm Soviet flags. Really shows how much Russians still live in the past and can't get over the fact that Soviet Union is no more.


Isnt as big of a fail of that one guy/girl waving a Stalin flag in Donetsk.
Oh, you're afraid of some Nazis killing you? Guess who killed more Russians/Soviets than Hitler? Stalin. :side:


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Thousands of people in Odessa May Day rally against Kiev’s actions








[/URL][/IMG]
_Patiotic self-defense volunteers guard the demonstration from possible attack by Right Sector fascists_.

ODESSA, May 01. /ITAR-TASS/. *Despite hot weather, thousands of people in the southern Ukrainian city of Odessa marched through its central streets on Thursday, May 1, carrying placards that read “Odessa Is a Hero City”, “Referendum” and “Fascism Won’t Pass”.*

War veterans clad in parade uniform and carrying flowers led the column. Car owners greeted the veterans with honks, and many people were joining in the march on the way.

The procession stopped in the city’s Kulikovo Field where activists from the public movement "People’s Alternative" had set up a tent city to collect signatures in support of a referendum on decentralization of power, the official status of the Russian language, and the foreign policy vector of the country.

The speakers assured their supporters that “*the protesters will not leave the Kulikovo Field until the authorities meet our demands for a referendum and release of our comrades arrested by the Ukrainian security service*."

“We want to build a bright future and take all the best we had in the past. The people who come to our rallies have an ideology unlike those who have likened ideas to the contents of their refrigerators,” Oleg Muzyka, one of the leaders of the Rodina (Motherland) party, said.

*The rally went off peacefully, without provocations from the supporters of the new Kiev authorities*. Odessa’s city administration leaders appointed by Kiev put local police on high alert ahead of the event, *with 1,400 police officers ensuring law and order during the May 1 holidays*.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Whatever, I'm just waiting for May 9th parade. I hope I can be home to watch it live. This year's parade should be interesting.


If you're waiting to watch a Victory Day Parade in Ukraine you will be staring at a blank TV screen - the fascist junta in Kiev has cancelled it! Nazis don't like to be reminded that the Soviet Union's Red Army defeated them!

- Mike

_*MOSCOW, April 27. /ITAR-TASS/. Kiev’s city state administration has cancelled the Victory Day military parade in the city on May 9, RT reported on Sunday*._


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## Oakue (Jul 16, 2012)

TheJack said:


> Isnt as big of a fail of that one guy/girl waving a Stalin flag in Donetsk.
> Oh, you're afraid of some Nazis killing you? Guess who killed more Russians/Soviets than Hitler? Stalin. :side:


Well as recently as 2008 the Russians voted Stalin the third most popular historical figure in a nationwide TV poll.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1102508/Stalin-voted-greatest-Russian-TV-poll-modelled-BBC-contest.html


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> If you're waiting to watch a Victory Day Parade in Ukraine you will be staring at a blank TV screen - the fascist junta in Kiev has cancelled it! Nazis don't like to be reminded that the Soviet Union's Red Army defeated them!
> 
> - Mike
> 
> _*MOSCOW, April 27. /ITAR-TASS/. Kiev’s city state administration has cancelled the Victory Day military parade in the city on May 9, RT reported on Sunday*._


Nope, I'm waiting for the Moscow Victory parade, just like every year.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

People seem to label the current government in Ukraine as 'Nazis'. I have always agreed they've got some far-right tendencies, but is there any substantiative evidence out there that corroborates this? Citing one as a Nazi is a bold claim.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Oakue said:


> Well as recently as 2008 the Russians voted Stalin the third most popular historical figure in a nationwide TV poll.
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1102508/Stalin-voted-greatest-Russian-TV-poll-modelled-BBC-contest.html


Actually, the story of the "GREATEST RUSSIAN" TV poll was very interesting.

I was following that poll very closely at the time. Stalin was out in front by a very large margin midway through the poll so they cancelled and closed down the poll. 

The TV station reopened the poll shortly after and, to their chagrin, Stalin was out to a large lead again. It would have been funny if it wasn't so pathetic - the TV station closed the poll a second time.

Apparently, the third time the poll organizers felt the correct order was achieved. Stalin came in 3rd, but not very many votes behind the #1 pick - Prince Alexander Nevsky who is a saint in the Russian Orthodox Church.

I don't know if they just rigged the votes or the people who voted for Stalin just got fed up and stopped voting. 

Just as an FYI, Stalin was Georgian, *NOT* Russian. So, technically he should have been disqualified from participating. (Just a joke, guys. I understand this was about picking the greatest "historical" figure in Russian history even though it wasn't stated that way.)

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> People seem to label the current government in Ukraine as 'Nazis'. I have always agreed they've got some far-right tendencies, but is there any substantiative evidence out there that corroborates this? Citing one as a Nazi is a bold claim.


Some clues as to the ideology of the Kiev junta might be found in the people running the government.

*Secretary of Ukrainian National Security and Defence Council*:
*Andriy Parubiy*, Founder of the Social National Party of Ukraine - a fascist party styled after Hitler's Nazis.

*Deputy Secretary of Ukrainian National Security*: 
*Dmytro Yarosh*, Leader of pro-facist, neo-Nazi Right Sector whose shock troops played a major role in the coup d'etat.

*People's Deputy of Ukraine, one of the main leaders of the coup*:
*Oleh Tyahnybok*, Leader of neo-Nazi "Svoboda Party" which the World Jewish Congress called on the EU to consider banning last year.

*Vice Prime Minister of Ukraine*:
*Oleksandr Sych* is a member of the Neo-Nazi "Svoboda Party." 

*General Prosecutor of Ukraine*:
*Oleh Makhnitsky*, member of neo-Nazi "Svoboda Party."








[/URL][/IMG]
_Stepan Bandera's portrait hangs in Kiev City Council Building_

Rehabilitation of WW II Nazi collaborator Stepan Bandera and the canceling of the Victory Day Parade in Kiev might be a couple of more clues as to the ideology of the Kiev junta. 

- Mike


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## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

The Manowarrior said:


> fpalm Soviet flags. Really shows how much Russians still live in the past and can't get over the fact that Soviet Union is no more.


um, its may day

pretty sure this is the single day of the year where you should pretty much expect hammer and sickle flags


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Tear gas in Ukraine’s Donetsk as activists seize Prosecutor’s Office 

Published time: May 01, 2014 12:36






May Day celebrations in Donetsk, eastern Ukraine, have turned violent as pro-autonomy activists seized the local Prosecutor’s Office. *Police responded with tear gas and stun grenades but later relinquished their weapons*.

The storming of the Donetsk Region Prosecutor’s Office began as several dozen shield-holding protesters pelted rocks and petrol bombs at the building while chanting “Fascists!,” as they tried to break in. 

Twenty-six people sustained injuries, including gunshot wounds, as a result of the storm and clashes, RIA Novosti reported, citing Donetsk officials. Two of them have been hospitalized. The Interior Ministry said that one National Guard soldier was wounded. 

The activists demanded that law enforcers come out of the building and surrender, while about 200 police remained inside. Initially, the police hit back with tear gas and stun grenades, but later refrained from using force and took cover under shields as protesters continued to throw stones. 

“Some security forces are laying down their shields, letting activists take them,” RT’s correspondent in Ukraine, Paula Slier reported on Twitter. 

*Eventually, the activists entered the building as the police left, removed the Ukrainian national flag, burned it and replaced it with the flag of the self-proclaimed People’s Republic of Donetsk*. 

The protesters formed a so-called “shame corridor” to let law enforcers out of the building, according to Interfax-Ukraine. 

*After the police were defeated, the crowd cheered the victors with a “well done!” chant and held a demonstration in front of the building.* 

May Day celebrations in Donetsk, one of the largest cities in crisis-torn Ukraine, began peacefully, with up to 500 communists marching through the city on Thursday morning. Waving hammer and sickle flags, they chanted: “Fascism will not pass,” and sang Soviet songs. 

*Later in the day, the communist march was followed by several thousands of anti-government protesters taking to the streets to demand a referendum on more autonomy from Kiev and a release of anti-government protesters. 
*
Activists staged a rally in the city center calling for a boycott on the upcoming presidential elections. They also demanded freedom for the “people’s governor” of Donetsk”, Pavel Gubarev, who has been under arrest in Kiev since early March.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

THE KIEV JUNTA'S GRIP ON THE EAST AND SOUTH SLIPS AWAY!


KHARKOV CELEBRATES MAY DAY AND SECESSION FROM UKRAINE UNDER THE RED BANNER!








LUGANSK CELEBRATES MAY DAY SINGING THE RUSSIAN NATIONAL ANTHEM!








"THE JUNTA WILL BE DESTROYED - VICTORY WILL BE OURS"
ODESSA MARCHES ON MAY DAY FOR SECESSION FROM UKRAINE UNDER THE RED BANNER 








TENS OF THOUSANDS MARCH AGAINST KIEV JUNTA ACROSS UKRAINE


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)




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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Hey, Stevie! So, it was OK when your Nazi Maidan scum burned buildings in Kiev, murdered police officers, tossed molotov cocktails, and tore the city to pieces.

Now when the people retaliate you don't like the shoe being on the other foot.

YOUR FASCIST SCUMBAGS ONLY UNDERSTAND FORCE!

UKRAINIAN PEOPLE WILL NOT BOW TO THE U.S. PUPPET REGIME IN KIEV!

DEATH TO THE KIEV JUNTA!


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)




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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Hey, Stevie! So, it was OK when your Nazi Maidan scum burned buildings in Kiev, murdered police officers, tossed molotov cocktails, and tore the city to pieces.
> 
> Now when the people retaliate you don't like the shoe being on the other foot.
> 
> ...


Will not bow to US puppet regime? I agree, but why according to you should thet bow to Russia's puppet regime?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Will not bow to US puppet regime? I agree, but why according to you should thet bow to Russia's puppet regime?


They aren't bowing to Russia. They don't want any part of the illegal government in Kiev run by Washington and Langley.

And, if they do want to become an independent republic or part of the Russian Federation what's wrong with that??? According to you and other posters people have the right to revolt if they are not satisfied with their government. Or, does that only hold true for the Maidan Mob???

- Mike


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> They aren't bowing to Russia. They don't want any part of the illegal government in Kiev run by Washington and Langley.
> 
> And, if they do want to become an independent republic or part of the Russian Federation what's wrong with that??? According to you and other posters people have the right to revolt if they are not satisfied with their government. Or, does that only hold true for the Maidan Mob???
> 
> - Mike


You're right, they are not bowing to Russia, although to deny any Putin presence in eastern Ukraine currently is a bit credulous.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> They aren't bowing to Russia. They don't want any part of the illegal government in Kiev run by Washington and Langley.
> 
> And, if they do want to become an independent republic or part of the Russian Federation what's wrong with that??? According to you and other posters people have the right to revolt if they are not satisfied with their government. Or, does that only hold true for the Maidan Mob???
> 
> - Mike


I believe that anyone who wants independence, should get a chance at it. And I mean a chance in a legal way. Not like Crimea was annexed.


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

The Manowarrior said:


> I believe that anyone who wants independence, should get a chance at it. And I mean a chance in a legal way. Not like Crimea was annexed.


Crimea was legal.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

AT LEAST TWO HELICOPTERS SHOT DOWN AS JUNTA FORCES STORM SLAVYANSK

2 May 2014, 13:42

*Ukraine's Slavyansk holds the line against Kiev's Right Sector fighters and foreign contractors *- correspondent








[/URL][/IMG]
_A Ukrainian military helicopter flies near a Ukrainian checkpoint near the town of Slavyansk in eastern Ukraine May 2, 2014 (Reuters / Baz Ratner)
_
The Ukrainian army has begun a special operation against pro-autonomy activists in the eastern town of Slavyansk. The city is now blockaded by the Ukrainian military, with 20 helicopters reportedly deployed to crack down on self-defense forces.

*Two helicopters have been shot down by self-defense forces, according to reports. Earlier, two helicopters were allegedly downed, with two pilots dead and another one captured*, RIA Novosti news agency reported. This information was confirmed by Ukraine's coup-appointed Interior Minister Arsen Avakov. 

*Following the loss of the aircraft, Kiev halted their operation*.

The total death toll in Slavyansk currently stands at three: *besides the two troops, there is also one fatality among the defense forces. Both sides report injuries*. 

Also, a journalist’s car has reportedly been fired on, according to RT's Paula Slier who is trying to reach the scene, but the Ukrainian army seems to be blocking all entrances to the city - and even Kramatorsk. 

The Slavyansk self-defense leader said that helicopters were firing on the city with missiles, but that there have been no reports of damage, Interfax stated. 

Slavyansk self-defense forces told RIA Novosti that the Ukrainian military had attacked several positions. 

“The attack is targeting a few checkpoints at the same time. A few armored vehicles and airborne combat vehicles arrived and airborne troops descended from the helicopters and attacked the checkpoints. Some forces were dropped off around the train station, where we didn’t have anyone,” RIA Novosti quoted the press secretary of the Slavyansk self-defense units as saying. 

Early on Friday morning, a city siren – which is designed to warn local residents of a Ukrainian military attack – went off and shots were heard. A few minutes later, the siren stopped and everything calmed down, according to reports. 

A few of the activists were injured during the attack, Interfax cited the city’s self-defense unit as saying. 

*A commander at one of the checkpoints told RIA Novosti that the Ukrainian army had taken control of one of the roadblocks on the outskirts of Slavyansk, as well as the city’s TV broadcasting center.* The Ukrainian army was mounting artillery positions around the captured TV station in Slavyansk, a city administration spokesman said, as cited by RIA Novosti. 

*A police station was reportedly seized, while the city center remains quiet*, RT’s Paula Slier reported from Ukraine. Several armored vehicles have been seen outside Slavyansk, she added. 

Thick smoke was spotted on the outskirts of the city, where the roadblocks are located. 

Meanwhile, the OSCE is trying to reach the Ukrainian authorities in attempt to stop the military operation in the country’s southeast, after a request from Russia. 

“We’ve demanded that all that be stopped, and that humanitarian corridors be created for the civilian population, and all air forces flights halted,” the Russian permanent representative to the organization, Andrey Kelin, told RIA Novosti news agency.


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## TB Tapp (Oct 26, 2013)

(Y)Fight on, boys. The heroic defenders of Slavyansk are like the Spartans at Thermopylae.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

JUNTA SENDS IN RIGHT SECTOR THUGS TO TERRORIZE THE PEOPLE OF ODESSA

The day after Odessa marched for secession on May Day the Kiev junta sent in Right Sector thugs and the football fans they have been using in their attempts to terrorize the people. The didn't succeed in terrorizing anyone. Odessa patriots went into the streets and battled the government stooges hand to hand.

Police used tear gas and stun grenades to keep the government provocateurs and the Odessa patriots seperated.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

RIGHT SECTOR & ULTRAS ATTACK ODESSA SEPARATIST TENT CAMP, CHASE MEN & WOMEN INTO TRADE UNION BUILDING AND SET IT AFIRE KILLING 38 INSIDE! 50 STILL TRAPPED ON ROOF!!

38 people die after radicals set Trade Unions House on fire in Ukraine's Odessa

Published time: May 02, 2014 18:49 

At least 38 anti-government activists have died in a fire at Odessa’s Trade Unions House. Some burned to death, while others suffocated or jumped out of windows, the Ukrainian Interior Ministry reported. *The building was set ablaze by pro-Kiev radicals*.

*CHECK OUT THE VIDEO AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE AT THE LINK BELOW. IT'S NOT ON YOU TUBE.
http://rt.com/news/156480-odessa-fire-protesters-dead/
*

*Some 40 people, including 10 police officers, were also injured in the incident*, the official statement said. 






*A total of 43 people have died in Odessa violence on Friday and 174 others have sustained injuries*. Twenty-five of those remain in critical condition, according to Odessa City Council. 

According to the ministry, the Friday standoff on Odessa included “anti-Maidan” activists on one side and “football fans” from Odessa and Kharkov, as well as "euro-Maidan" activists, on the other. A criminal case on the charges of mass unrest has been opened. 

*The Trade Unions House was set on fire by pro-Kiev radicals after they surrounded and destroyed the tent camp of anti-government activists that stood in front of the building on Odessa’s Kulikovo Field Square*. It was torched in a storming attempt after some of the anti-Maidan activists rallying in the square barricaded themselves inside the building. 

*The majority of the victims were found on the floors of the Trade Unions House having apparently burned to death or suffocated from smoke. Others jumped out of the building's windows, according to police. 
*
Earlier reports of the clashes in Odessa said that both sides used Molotov cocktails and, allegedly, gunfire. *Part of the pro-Maidan activists reportedly bore insignia of the radical Right Sector group. 
*
A live video stream from inside the building showed disturbing scenes of dead bodies lying around the rooms with thick smoke in the air and blood stains on the floor. 

*Most of the bodies filmed had St. George ribbons attached to their clothes, distinguishing the victims as pro-Russian or anti-Kiev activists. 
*
The person filming said he counted up to 25 dead bodies on the upper floors alone. 

As the house was engulfed in flames, photos posted on Twitter showed people hanging out of windows and sitting on windowsills of several floors, possibly preparing to jump. Reports claimed that *those who jumped and survived were surrounded and beaten by football ultras and the Right Sector*. 

*The riot police lines standing beside the building were apparently doing nothing to prevent the violence, the photos showed*. Police officers reportedly said they could not do anything because they were “unarmed.” 

An activist trapped on the roof of the Trade Unions House told RT by phone that up 50 people remain there with him, including women. 

*As people were dying in the burning building, some of the pro-Kiev activists jeered on Twitter that “Colorado beetles are being roasted up in Odessa,*” using a derogatory term for pro-Russian activists wearing St. George’s ribbons. Few media outlets followed the developing situation, with thousands of people taking to live streams to see the events unfolding. 

However, just as the first official death toll emerged, *some Western media and leaders rushed to seemingly downplay the role of pro-Kiev activists in the incident and to blame their rivals instead. 
*
“_More than 40 people were killed in Odessa on Friday, most caught in a building set on fire after pro-Russian activists and supporters of Ukrainian unity fought running battles across the southern port city_,” *Reuters wrote*. 

“_Horrible with at least 38 dead in Odessa. Seems to have started with pro-Russian attempt to get control of buildings. Violence must stop!” *Swedish Foreign Minister Carl Bildt wrote *on Twitter. *Earlier, Bildt blamed “pro-Russian thugs*_*” for the street violence in Odessa*.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)




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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)




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## 1andOnlyDobz! (Jan 3, 2011)

Tbh I think with what has gone on in the last day this situation is past blame now. We have people dying and this is descending into Civil War as I'd imagine a fair few of us feared. I'm hoping this gets put to a stop quickly, but for things to get this far is a crying shame regardless of whose side you may have taken.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> If you're waiting to watch a Victory Day Parade in Ukraine you will be staring at a blank TV screen - the fascist junta in Kiev has cancelled it! Nazis don't like to be reminded that the Soviet Union's Red Army defeated them!
> 
> - Mike
> 
> _*MOSCOW, April 27. /ITAR-TASS/. Kiev’s city state administration has cancelled the Victory Day military parade in the city on May 9, RT reported on Sunday*._


A parade in Kiev, under these conditions, is inpossible. Considering what is happening in the country, it would just cause another mass riot, resulting in more casualties. Is that what you want?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> A parade in Kiev, under these conditions, is inpossible. Considering what is happening in the country, it would just cause another mass riot, resulting in more casualties. *Is that what you want*?


Tomas, the parade was cancelled two weeks earlier, long before the IMF ordered the junta a couple of days ago to end the situation in the east and south as a condition for getting $17 billion in aid.

Yesterday's mass riot in Odessa and atrocity of burning 39 people alive was caused by the government sending in Right Sector and the Ultras. The day before the seperatists demonstrated peacefully on May Day. 

No, I don't want to see more casualties. Do you???

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*Most soldiers in the Ukrainian Army refuse to shoot their fellow countrymen, so the junta in Kiev is using Right Sector and other neo-Nazi groups to attempt to put down protests in the east and south. As I've said repeatedly, these are murdering scum who will kill anyone they don't deem fit to live in Ukraine. Russians are on top of their list right now. But, be assured - the Jews will be next. - Mike*

Over 10 civilians shot dead by Right Sector radicals near Slavyansk in eastern Ukraine

Published time: May 03, 2014 06:40










Over 10 people have died and around 40 have been injured after members of Right Sector opened fire on civilians in eastern Ukraine, the People’s Mayor of Slavyansk has said.

Civilians had reportedly formed a human chain to protect their village from members of the right-wing group. 

“*In the village of Andreevka (suburb of Slavyansk) during the night people blocked entry to Right Sector members, forming a human chain along the road. Members of Right Sector opened fire, killing over 10 people,*” The People’s Mayor of Slavyansk Vyacheslav Ponomarev told Russia’s Interfax news agency in a telephone conversation. 

According to the People’s Mayor, *members of Right Sector would not allow anyone to move the wounded and opened fire on people who tried to approach them*. 

RT’s stringer, Graham Phillips, who is in Andreevka, said over 100 Ukrainian soldiers had set up camp in the village yesterday and had now left. He uploaded a video onto his YouTube feed showing the dead body of a man who had been shot dead by soldiers, according to local residents. 

Vyacheslav Ponomarev was appointed People’s Mayor of Slavyansk after pro-federalization activists took control of the city on April 12. 

Over the last 24 hours there has been a dramatic escalation in violence in eastern Ukraine. *Yesterday evening members of Right Sector set fire to the Trade Unions House in Odessa, killing at least 39 people and injuring a further 40*, according to data from Ukraine’s Emergencies Ministry. 

The neo-fascist group rose to prominence during the protests that preceeded the ouster of Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovich in a coup d’etat in February. *Since then, the group has adopted an extreme, anti-Russian stance and moved its headquarters from Kiev to the eastern city of Dnepropetrovsk “to prevent the spread of the Kremlin infection.”* 

Right Sector’s head Dmity Yarosh, who has been placed on an international most wanted terrorist list by Russia, announced the creation of a new squad of fighters called “Donbass” at the end of April. According to Yarosh, *the group coordinates “all of our actions with the leadership of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine, the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Security service of Ukraine.*” 

*Kiev’s coup-appointed Interior Minister Arsen Avakov has said Donbass will be incorporated into a new structure of special divisions aimed at bring the situation in eastern Ukraine under control. 
*
Moscow has condemned the actions of Right Sector and called on the Kiev government to disassociate itself from extremist groups.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Street battles in Kramatorsk, E.Ukraine after overnight assault killed 10 civilian bystanders 

Published time: May 03, 2014 05:59 










Fighting and street battles are raging in Kramatorsk, as the Kiev regime continues its assault on the city. *There are reports of residents killed, with overnight attacks having claimed at least ten lives,* self-defense say.

"Last night 10 people on our side died, *they were all unarmed civilians,*” the leader, who wouldn’t disclose his identity, told RIA Novosti. 

*He added that 30 people were wounded after the Ukrainian army opened fire*. 

Via Facebook, Interim Interior Minister Arsen Avakov asked local residents to stay indoors. 

Earlier, he said that two checkpoints near Kramatorsk had been destroyed and the TV tower had been taken. 

*Snipers who are controlled by the Kiev government occupied multi-storey buildings and fire from there*, an unnamed source in the Donbass self-defense HQ told Interfax news agency. He added that the fighting is going on on the city streets, with different kinds of weapons used. 

The source also claims there are dead in the fighting, “*most of them civilians who happened to be next to the location where the fighting is now on.*” 

The Ukrainian army’s assault on Kramatorsk started on Friday night. Earlier reports said that one self-defense activist was killed and nine were injured. 

Ukrainian Interior Minister Arsen Avakov warned that the special military operation in Kramatorsk would resume on Saturday morning, adding that the military has already taken control of the city’s TV tower. 

“The active phase of the operation will continue at sunrise,” Avakov said on his Facebook page. “We are not going to stop.” 

Avakov also said two self-defense checkpoints were destroyed near Kramatorsk airport


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

http://www.theguardian.com/world/vi...ists-slavyansk-ukraine-military-assault-video

A video showing pro-Russian separatists cheering over a helicopter being shot down and a pilot being killed. One of them said 'beautiful'. If a man dying is beautiful to them, how can anybody support them or be on their side? Oh, right, it's because they're Russian. If one of them was killed, their supporters would surely post news articles about it here. But when they kill someone, it's 'beautiful'. Ugh, this makes me sick.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/world/vi...ists-slavyansk-ukraine-military-assault-video
> 
> A video showing pro-Russian separatists cheering over a helicopter being shot down and a pilot being killed. One of them said 'beautiful'. If a man dying is beautiful to them, how can anybody support them or be on their side? Oh, right, it's because they're Russian. If one of them was killed, their supporters would surely post news articles about it here. But when they kill someone, it's 'beautiful'. Ugh, this makes me sick.


When they burned 39 people to death in the Trade Union Building in Odessa the Right Sector thugs cheered as they died shouting and TEXTING, "*The Colorado beatles are roasting in Odessa.*"

When you are defending the place you are born and under attack you might say something like "beautiful" if you shot down an enemy helicopter attacking your home. When you are the attacker and burning people to death it is a different story. 

Tomas, just like the western media you are really stretching to demonize the patriot seperatists and support the Right Sector Nazis. *You can deny it all you want and claim neutrality, but you are a RUSSOPHOBE with a capital "R" and a closet Baltic Nazi! *

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> When they burned 39 people to death in the Trade Union Building in Odessa the Right Sector thugs cheered as they died shouting and TEXTING, "*The Colorado beatles are roasting in Odessa.*"
> 
> When you are defending the place you are born and under attack you might say something like "beautiful" if you shot down an enemy helicopter attacking your home. When you are the attacker and burning people to death it is a different story.
> 
> ...


Again, I'm not a nazi, nor do I support nazis. Never I said that I support the current government or ultra-right sector. And I am far from a russophobe. I do not hate or fear Russia or Russians. In fact, I get on really well with Russian people, whom I know a lot here where I live. And I watch Russian TV every day. I also support Russian sports teams and athletes.

It's so much like the Russian media for you to accuse without any knowledge.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Again, I'm not a nazi, nor do I support nazis. Never I said that I support the current government or ultra-right sector. And I am far from a russophobe. I do not hate or fear Russia or Russians. In fact, I get on really well with Russian people, whom I know a lot here where I live. And I watch Russian TV every day. I also support Russian sports teams and athletes.
> 
> It's so much like the Russian media for you to accuse without any knowledge.


Your posts on this thread provide plenty of insight into what you are. Not once have you come right out and condemned neo-Nazi Right Sector and Svoboda or the Kiev junta. It's always the "Russians," i.e. easten Ukrainians, who are wrong, or Moscow who is stirring the pot, etc.

Whatever you think of me is fine. But, at least I admit my position. I'm an American of Byelorussian descent; I am 100% against the illegitmate junta in Kiev, and I support the people of eastern and southern Ukraine in their struggle for the right of self-determination.

Get a pair of balls and admit what you are! 

- Mike

P.S. Your post sounds just like a line from the American racist's playbook - "I don't hate black people, I have black friends and watch NBA games." Just substitute the word "Russian" for "black."


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> Your posts on this thread provide plenty of insight into what you are.


On numerous occasions, you've stated that I support the West in this crisis. Twice I asked for substantive evidence from my previous postings that corroborates such an assertion and you've ignored such a request. Now you're doing the same to Manowarrior. 

If you are going to call him a Russophobe then we might as well call you an Americaphobe. They are both blanket accusations, but you seem to be resorting to such empty claims in this thread, anyway, so why not continue with it? Honestly, the "Russophobia" card is tiresome, ill-founded, and frankly a cheap way to discard _any_ legitimate criticism over these pro-Russian militants. Again, this dyadic thinking is what is turning this crisis into an unnecessary information war. It is riddled with this Cold War mentality which is doing *no* favours to *anyone*.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Your posts on this thread provide plenty of insight into what you are. Not once have you come right out and condemned neo-Nazi Right Sector and Svoboda or the Kiev junta. It's always the "Russians," i.e. easten Ukrainians, who are wrong, or Moscow who is stirring the pot, etc.
> 
> Whatever you think of me is fine. But, at least I admit my position. I'm an American of Byelorussian descent; I am 100% against the illegitmate junta in Kiev, and I support the people of eastern and southern Ukraine in their struggle for the right of self-determination.
> 
> ...


Whoa, now you're accusing me of racism?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*After the Western Ukrainian neo-Nazis burned alive the 39 people in the Odessa Trade Union Building the other day I could care less about what any of the apologists for the coup say or post*. These Right Sector bastards did in Odessa exactly what their ancestors helped the Nazis do 70 years ago in Byelorussia.

During their retreat from Byelorussia during the Great Patriotic War purely out of spite and malice the *Nazi troops locked up the entire village of Хатынь in the communal barn and then burned it down*. Anyone that managed to get out was machine gunned down. It is historic fact that *Western Ukrainians who made up the troops of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army participated in this atro**city*. I've been to the memorial there.

*The same atrocity was repeated in nearly 700 villages in Byelorussia by the Nazis*. Aside from Хатынь I don't know what role the Western Ukrainians played in the other massacres. However, I am sure that the blood thirsty mother fuckers were involved in more than just the one. The Western Ukrainians were used by the Nazis to kill nearly 100,000 Poles in Volhynia and eastern Galicia. So, I'm sure they jumped at the chance to burn Byelorussians alive!

*PLEASE, PUTIN, SEND IN THE RUSSIAN ARMY AND WIPE OUT THESE FUCKING NAZI BASTARDS*!

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Your posts on this thread provide plenty of insight into what you are. Not once have you come right out and condemned neo-Nazi Right Sector and Svoboda or the Kiev junta. It's always the "Russians," i.e. easten Ukrainians, who are wrong, or Moscow who is stirring the pot, etc.
> 
> Whatever you think of me is fine. But, at least I admit my position. I'm an American of Byelorussian descent; I am 100% against the illegitmate junta in Kiev, and I support the people of eastern and southern Ukraine in their struggle for the right of self-determination.
> 
> ...


You know what, Mike. Go ahead and call me whatever you like. The thing is, who cares what you think of me? I know who doesn't. I don't for sure. *I know who I am and who I'm not*. I couldn't care less if you call me a nazi, a racist, or whatever else you can think of.


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## Argothar (Apr 2, 2012)

@Manowarrior, going off topic here completely. But fuck yeah, Manowar!


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

West reluctant to point finger at nationalist radicals in Ukraine crisis

Published time: May 03, 2014 12:46 






Russia is struck by the complacence of the West following violence by pro-Kiev radicals in Odessa, the Russian Ambassador to the UN has said. *While the West has condemned the unrest, it has stopped short of pointing the finger at its culprits.
*
Following an emergency meeting with the UN Security Council on Friday night in connection with the fire at Odessa’s Trade Unions House that killed 39 people, Ambassador Vitaly Churkin spoke out against Western support of radical elements in Ukraine. 

“*We were struck by the complacence of the Western members of the Security Council towards the actions, including the use of force, by the illegitimate Kiev authorities and the ultra-radicals they rely on,*” said Churkin in a statement. 

He added Russia was “profoundly disturbed” by reports “thugs” from the extremist, right-wing group Right Sector had set the Trade Unions building ablaze. 

“*Such actions are reminiscent of the crimes of the Nazis*,” he said, stressing it is not surprising such elements believe they can act with “impunity” when they have the backing of the West. 

*Although the West has moved to condemn the incident, it has stopped short of acknowledging it was pro-Kiev radicals that set the building ablaze and the victims were pro-federalization activists*. 

The US State Department issued a statement following the event, decrying the violence and mayhem that led to so many senseless deaths and injuries as “unacceptable.” *It made no mention of the actions of radical, right-wing elements in Ukraine*. Sweden’s Foreign Minister went one step further, intimating in a Twitter post that the events in Odessa were triggered by a “pro-Russian attempt to get control of buildings.” 

Furthermore, earlier this week *EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton said "the state's monopoly on the legitimate use of violence needs to be respected.*" 

Following a meeting with German Chancellor Angela Merkel, *President Barack Obama praised the “remarkable restraint” of the coup-appointed Kiev government in their treatment of the crisis*. He also said that the Ukrainian Army’s operation in eastern Ukraine was “a move to restore order.”


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Moscow: Kiev and western sponsors directly responsible for bloodshed in E.Ukraine

Published time: May 03, 2014 08:21 









_Dmitry Peskov, spokesperson for Russian President Putin_

Kiev’s government and its western allies bear full responsibility for the recent bloodshed in Ukraine, Russia’s presidential spokesman has said, adding it is now impossible to convince people in the region to disarm because their lives are under threat.

Spokesperson for Russian President Vladimir Putin, Dmitry Peskov, released an official statement following the tragic events in Odessa. *39 anti-government activists have died in a fire at the Trade Unions House there, after the building was set ablaze by pro-Kiev radicals. Some anti-Kiev protesters burned to death, while others suffocated or jumped out of windows, the Ukrainian Interior Ministry said. 
*
Peskov expressed deep condolences for the families of those who died in the tragedy on behalf of President Vladimir Putin and said the Kiev government and the West had blood on their hands. 

“*The authorities in Kiev not only bear direct responsibility, but are complicit in these criminal activities. Their arms are up to the elbows in blood*,” Peskov said. 

He said the tragedy in Odessa was the product of “*the connivance of those who consider themselves the authority in Kiev*.” 

“*They allowed extremists and radicals to burn unarmed people alive. I stress that these people were unarmed*.” 

Peskov condemned the position adopted by Washington and a number of European countries as motivated by cynicism. 

“It is the highest manifestation of cynicism.* The people who justify this punitive operation are the same ones that did not allow the legitimate President of Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovich, to bring order to the country*,” said Peskov, referring to the special operation being carried out in the East of Ukraine at the order of the Kiev government. 

The latest escalation in the fighting in eastern Ukraine has made it impossible for any nation to convince people to disarm in the region because their lives are at risk, said Peskov. 

“In spite of consistent attempts to encourage dialogue, Russia has hit against provocation not only from Kiev, but also its Western sponsors," he said, stressing that Russia could not find a solution to the current conflict on its own. 

Addressing the Ukrainian elections that are set to take place later this month, Peskov said *the prospect of such a vote was “absurd” while violence continues to rage in the country*. 

The president’s spokesperson announced on Friday that Kiev had effectively destroyed the last vestige of hope for implementing the Geneva agreement on de-escalating the Ukrainian crisis by unleashing a ‘punitive operation’ in eastern Ukraine. *Russia views the operation as criminal and has urged the Ukrainian government not to use force against unarmed civilians*. 
*
However, the EU and the US have both supported the Kiev government’s operation*. President Barack Obama called it “a move to restore order,” while EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton said "the state's monopoly on the legitimate use of violence needs to be respected." 

“*Our colleagues in the West are basically trying to justify the large number of murders we are seeing,” said Peskov, calling Ashton’s statement “monstrous*.” 

When asked how Russia would react to the escalating conflict in Ukraine, Peskov said he was unable to answer that question at present. 

“This is unknown territory for us,” said the presidential spokesperson, adding that *the Russian government has received thousands of calls from southeastern Ukraine, demanding Moscow’s help*. 

“Desperate people call, they ask for help. The vast majority want Russia’s help,” said Peskov. “All of these calls are reported to President Vladimir Putin.”


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Russia have already invaded eastern Ukraine. They've been there for weeks now, contributing to the destabilisation of the region to give Putin ostensible pretext to annex more land. You can see the political logic in it, too. Putin needs the eastern bloc for *many* reasons, and he's going to get it, much to the dismay of the West.


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

Despot said:


> Russia have already invaded eastern Ukraine. They've been there for weeks now, contributing to the destabilisation of the region to give Putin ostensible pretext to annex more land. You can see the political logic in it, too. Putin needs the eastern bloc for *many* reasons, and he's going to get it, much to the dismay of the West.


The west violated Ukrainian territory first with their policy of plutocratric exportation/installation/intervention. Russia has not invaded Ukraine. Do they have unmarked Spetznaz directing traffic? Probably, but only as a response to a western backed coup.

If China engineered a Sino coup in Mexica, U.S. forces would be over the border in about 40 minutes and not showing restraint - like Vladimir Putin is doing.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

roadkill_ said:


> The west violated Ukrainian territory first with their policy of plutocratric exportation/installation/intervention. *Russia has not invaded Ukraine*. Do they have unmarked Spetznaz directing traffic? Probably, but only as a response to a western backed coup.
> 
> If China engineered a Sino coup in Mexica, *U.S. forces would be over the border* in about 40 minutes and not showing restraint - *like Vladimir Putin is doing*.


In your post, first you say that there are no Russian forces in Ukraine, ten say that Putin is doing that.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Radicals shooting at people in Odessa’s burning building caught on tape

Published time: May 04, 2014 11:14 





*New video has emerged online which shows a man shooting at the windows of Odessa’s burning House of Trade Unions. At least 39 anti-government activists died in the flames on May 2 in the building besieged and set ablaze by radicals
A man in the video is wearing a bulletproof vest and is shoots several times in the direction of the burning House of Trade Unions.
*





*Another video of the same man shows him speaking on the phone passionately arguing that he and his people are unarmed, while having to confront armed anti-government protesters. The man introduces himself as sotnik Mykola (“sotnik” is what Maidan group leaders in Kiev call themselves) He also says he was wounded in the leg by protesters, although he doesn’t look hurt in the footage.
*

Both the videos have gathered thousands of views on YouTube, stirring a wave of indignation at the man’s hypocrisy and his shooting at the people trapped inside the burning building. 

Survivors of the fire say they had to barricade themselves inside the House of Trade Unions, to hide from an aggressive mob, which had torched their tent camp. 

Radicals then began throwing Molotov cocktails at the Trade Unions building, setting it on fire. Witnesses say that those who managed to escape the fire, were severely beaten outside by the besiegers of the burning building. 

“We couldn't go down, we were seeing people from other floors being brought down and then those rioters down there attacked them like a pack of wolves,” a survivor of the fire, who was hiding on the roof of the building, told RT. 

Afraid of falling into the hands of radicals, people didn’t leave the House of Trade Unions, where dozens eventually burnt alive, suffocated or jumped out of windows.


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

The Manowarrior said:


> In your post, first you say that there are no Russian forces in Ukraine, ten say that Putin is doing that.


That hardly constitutes an invasion.


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

Batko10 said:


> Radicals shooting at people in Odessa’s burning building caught on tape
> 
> Published time: May 04, 2014 11:14
> 
> ...


They have violated the geneva agreement. This about goading Russia into invading because Russia is not playing ball with western designs on international plutocratic hegemony. I.e. a world where servile idiots believe everything and live off shit wages why 10% of our betters live the good life.

The IMF should be criminally investigated. They have ordered Ukraine to attack ethnic Russians or not receive a bailout. That is a criminal act.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

WESTERN UKRAINIAN NEO-NAZIS REPEAT HISTORY

*KHATYN, BYELORUSSIA 1943*: NAZI WERHMACHT TROOPS AND WESTERN UKRAINIAN COLLABORATORS LOCK THE POPULATION OF KHATYN VILLAGE IN THE COMMUNAL BARN AND TORCH IT. ANYONE WHO GOT OUT IS MACHINE GUNNED DOWN! 










*ODESSA, UKRAINE, 2014*: NEO-NAZI WESTERN UKRAINIANS TRAP ANTI-JUNTA TENT CAMP PEOPLE IN THE TRADE UNION BUILDING AND TORCH IT. ANYONE TRYING TO ESCAPE IS BEATEN OR SHOT.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

roadkill_ said:


> They have violated the geneva agreement. This about goading Russia into invading because Russia is not playing ball with western designs on international plutocratic hegemony. I.e. a world where servile idiots believe everything and live off shit wages why 10% of our betters live the good life.
> 
> The IMF should be criminally investigated. They have ordered Ukraine to attack ethnic Russians or not receive a bailout. That is a criminal act.


I totally called that the ethnic Russian card would be brought up like 70 pages ago 

My bookie is going to be pissed


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

roadkill_ said:


> The IMF should be criminally investigated. They have ordered Ukraine to attack ethnic Russians or not receive a bailout. That is a criminal act.


Those are pretty heavy accusations. Do you have anything to back it up?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Below are photos that graphically illustrate the reason the spin doctors of the western prostitute media are frantically trying shift blame, and confuse and cover up the facts in the torching of the Trade Union Building and murder of anti-junta protestors by Right Sector Nazis.

No amount of bullshit sarcasm by our list members or pseudo-intellectual analyzing is going to make this go away. 

HERE IS THE DIRTY WORK OF THE JUNTA'S NEO-NAZIS THAT THE UKRAINIAN ARMY REFUSES TO DO!









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[/URL][/IMG]


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

IN B4 LOCK


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

"JUNTA'S LITTLE HELPERS" OPENLY MIX MOLOTOV COCKTAILS IN ODESSA ON MAY 2ND 

*Right Sector neo-Nazis come in both sexes and all age groups. In the video below Katerina Olegivna, Alla Kolesnik, Khristina Yizhak, Darya Marien openly mix molotov cocktails on an Odessa street for their male Right Sector fellow Nazis.
*












[/URL][/IMG]








[/URL][/IMG]








[/URL][/IMG]


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Allur said:


> Those are pretty heavy accusations. Do you have anything to back it up?


They seldom do.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

RIP to all the people who tragically died in the Odessa fire. 

Ukraine is out of control, and there needs to be some degree of resolution. A referendum for greater autonomy in the east is the best way to go.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> Those are pretty heavy accusations. Do you have anything to back it up?


I went over the IMF Country Report on Ukraine. Obviously, they are not going to put into writing that the junta should go in and start killing patriots who are fighting for independence. But, amidst the IMF's typical economic mumbo jumbo I found the following statements that were agreed to by Turchinov, Yatsiniuk, and the rest of the rat pack of the fascist Kiev junta.

It doesn't take much of an imagination to read between the lines and guess what could very well have been said behind closed doors.

Key phrases were enlarged by me.

Excerpts from *IMF COUNTRY REPORT 14/160*

UKRAINE

PAGE 2

*EXECUTIVE SUMMARY*

PARAGRAPH 2
Policies. Key objectives of the authorities program are to restore macroeconomic stability, strengthen economic governance and transparency, and lay the foundations for robust and balanced economic growth. To achieve this the government will implement immediate measures at securing political stability, combined with deeper reforms to assure and sustain external sustainability, ensure financial stability, rationalize the energy sector, and improve the business environment. 

PAGE 11

*POLICY DISCUSSIONS*

*Program Objectives and Strategies*
17. …The program is addressing these risks by seeking upfront implementation of a critical set of prior actions, balancing decisive policy action with measures to sustain public support for the reforms, and securing broad political support for program objectives and policies. In addition – and, perhaps, more prominently – the unfolding relations in the East and with Russia could severely disrupt bilateral trade and depress investment confidence for a considerable period of time. Should the central government lose effective control over the East, the program would need to be redesigned.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*Sunday, May 4, 2014: Anti-junta mobs stormed the Odessa Police Headquarters and freed patriots arrested by the junta's authorities.
*






Odessa police release 67 anti-govt activists after crowd surrounds police HQ


Published time: May 04, 2014 14:08 

Sixty-seven anti-government activists detained by police in the south Ukrainian city of Odessa have been released after a crowd of locals blocked the Interior Ministry building. *Those released reportedly included survivors from the deadly May-2 fire*.

A crowd of Odessa residents, which included many women and elderly people as seen on live video streams from the scene, cheered and hugged the released activists. 

RT’s Irina Galushko reported that despite being set free, the activists did not have the charges against them dropped and were asked “to come back tomorrow for their belongings.”

According to Galushko, *riot police present at the scene were standing idly by, while the people chanted "Heroes!" and "Freedom!" 
*
The release of just several activists did not, however, appease the crowd. Some of the protesters attempted to get inside the building, shouting "Fascists! Fascists!" 

Eventually, 67 activists have been released, Odessa police department’s press service has said. *More than 1,000 people were blockading the police department at the time of the statement*, according to Itar-Tass. Part of the crowd had broken down the entrance gate and gained access to the building’s courtyard. 

Around 100 people rallying in central Odessa on Sunday initially blocked the local Interior Ministry department in protest against the detention of anti-government activists following the tragic events of Friday, May 2. *The protesters have been trying to prevent the police from sending the detained, which reportedly include dozens of survivors of the Trade Union House fire, to the regional court building. 
*
The Ukrainian Interior Ministry has announced that 160 of the “most active participants in the mass unrest” have been detained and charged with creating “mass disorder” and “threats or violence against the law enforcement.” *Earlier, the ministry blamed anti-Kiev protesters for initiating the violence on Friday and even for starting the fire that claimed the lives of 39 of their fellow activists. 
*
*Despite clear evidence that the pro-Kiev radicals set Odessa’s House of Trade Unions ablaze and shot at the people from the anti-government tent camp who barricaded themselves inside the building, the Western mainstream media is also being ambiguous about the causes of the tragedy*. 

Hundreds of people in Odessa on Sunday continued to bring flowers and candles to the House of Trade Unions amid the three-day mourning period for victims of the May 2 clashes. In eastern Ukrainian cities, such as Donetsk, Lugansk, and Kharkov, hundreds gathered for rallies in memory of those killed in Odessa, delivering anti-government slogans.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Dozens injured, fatalities on both sides in ongoing military op in Slavyansk 

Published time: May 05, 2014 09:34 








[/URL][/IMG]

There were fatalities among both Kiev loyalists and local militia members after government troops renewed the crackdown on the defiant eastern Ukrainian protester stronghold of Slavyansk. *Over a dozen of people have been killed, including some civilians.* 

There was a shooting on the outskirts of Slavyansk as pro-government troops raided a protester checkpoint on Monday. 

*At least 10 self-defense fighters and their unarmed civilian supporters have been killed in the latest clashes*, the commander of Slavyansk self-defense, Igor Strelkov, told RIA Novosti. 

“We suffered losses – about 10 people, including civilians, 20-25 people were injured. I do not know the losses of our adversaries; clearly they are smaller than ours, they have armor. *Most of our losses came from plainclothes [troops], disguised as civilians. We fell into their ambush near a petrol station,”* Strelkov said. 

*The Ukrainian Interior Ministry said four of its troops were killed and some 30 others injured in Slavyansk during Monday’s attack.* There are also casualties among the civilian population of the city, the ministry added. 

*A Ukrainian army helicopter was downed by heavy machine gun fire and crashed into a river in the Slavyansk area, the Ukrainian Defense Ministry press service has said in a statement*. The aircraft, identified as Mi-24 helicopter, was hit at 14:30 local time (11:30 GMT) while doing a target run during a combat mission, the statement said. The pilots survived the crash and have been evacuated. 

Slavyansk city hospital reported admitting seven injured during the morning. Two of them, suffering from gunshot wounds, died in hospital. 

*A 30-year-old civilian woman was shot in the head and killed by a sniper while standing on her balcony*, RT’s Paula Slier reported, citing doctors. Slier managed to get to the scene and interview the family of the victim. 

*Slier also said she witnessed a rocket fired near a TV station located in the vicinity of Slavyansk, which is currently held by Kiev’s troops.* 

Bells tolled in churches around the city to alert residents of the incoming threat. 

Intefax cites a militia member as saying that their forces pulled back into the city after fighting in the villages of Andreevka and Semyonovka near Slavyansk. 

The Security Service of Ukraine spokesperson Marina Ostapenko said the renewed operation’s aim is “to establish a security perimeter around the regions engulfed by violence.” 

There is a report of a separate civilian death near Slavyansk. *A man driving his car was shot by one of Kiev’s armored personnel carriers blocking the city*, protester spokesman, Aleksandr Maltsev, told Itar-Tass. 

The Ukrainian Defense Ministry said it used a helicopter gunship to attack railway cars with rockets, saying the militia members were trying to convert it into an armored train. RT’s Graham Phillips reported that the self-defense force in Andreevka village showed him a rocket casing left by helicopter fire, but said nobody was injured there. 

The continuation of hostilities comes after a tense night, in which several people were reportedly injured as Kiev loyalists attacked anti-government troops in the city. 

*Kiev has intensified attacks on Slavyansk and other protester-held cities in eastern Ukraine since Friday morning. So far government troops have managed to blockade transport to and from Slavyansk, but haven’t made significant territorial gains, preferring hit and run tactics.*


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

So, when can we expect a "formal" Russian invasion? It's inevitable. There is so much pretext it's not even funny.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

RIGHT SECTOR NAZI SCUM EXECUTING CIVILIANS IN KRAMATORSK FORCING THEM TO KNEEL AND THEN SHOOTING THEM IN THE BACK OF THE HEAD!


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## Spanish Lariato (Jul 26, 2011)

My solidarity to all the victims of the on-going Genocide perpetrated by the Nazi Junta aided by the NATO.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> RIGHT SECTOR NAZI SCUM EXECUTING CIVILIANS IN KRAMATORSK FORCING THEM TO KNEEL AND THEN SHOOTING THEM IN THE BACK OF THE HEAD!


Any proof of that? 'We are hearing unconfirmed reports' is not a proof.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Any proof of that? 'We are hearing unconfirmed reports' is not a proof.


Еб твою мать, сволочь! They're killing my people and this Baltic neo-Nazi wants proof???


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Еб твою мать, сволочь! They're killing my people and this Baltic neo-Nazi wants proof???


So you don't have a proof of that happening?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> So you don't have a proof of that happening?


You Nazi pig. Even when the proof is evident in Odessa when your fascist cronies burned to death the 39 separatists you and the West deny it. When the "evidence" of this comes out you will deny it, too.

Go crawl back into your hole in the ground and dust off your swastika.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> You Nazi pig. Even when the proof is evident in Odessa when your fascist cronies burned to death the 39 separatists you and the West deny it. When the "evidence" of this comes out you will deny it, too.
> 
> Go crawl back into your hole in the ground and dust off your swastika.
> 
> - Mike


First off, I don't deny it. I never did. Why you keep making up facts? Quote me denying any of that. Go ahead. And still, you don't have the proof, do you?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Moscow releases ‘White Book’ on human rights abuses in crisis-torn Ukraine

Published time: May 05, 2014 12:32 

A report on human rights violations, law abuses, use of torture, inhuman treatment and other crimes in Ukraine from the end of November 2013 to the end of March 2014, a so called ‘White Book’, has been presented by the Russian Foreign Ministry.

*The authors compiled their facts by carefully monitoring Ukrainian, Russian and some Western media reports. The study also considered statements from Ukraine’s “new government” and their supporters, and numerous eyewitness accounts, including those posted on the internet. They also recorded observations and interviews with people on the scene, and those collected by non-governmental organizations: The Foundation for Researching Problems in Democracy, and the Moscow Bureau for Human Rights. *

The study accuses those “who cynically, in pursuit of their own selfish interests …and pseudo-democratic demagogy, are plunging a multimillion multi-ethnic Ukrainian population into extremism, lawlessness, and a deep crisis of national identity.” 

According to the authors, the aim of the document is “*to focus on facts which the international community and key international human rights bodies have not shown proper and impartial attention to.*” 

“*The onslaught of racism, xenophobia, ethnic intolerance, the glorification of the Nazis and their Banderite sycophants should be brought to a speedy end through the united efforts of the Ukrainian people and the international community,*” it adds. 

The document states that the alternative may have “devastating consequences for peace, stability, and democratic development in Europe.” That’s why it’s “necessary to prevent a further escalation of this situation,” it adds. 

The document, written in Russian and English, details examples of violations to the right to life and violations of public order and safety, as well as the use of torture, inhuman treatment and other crimes committed in the period from the end of November 2013 to the end of March 2014. It was presented to Russian President Vladimir Putin on Monday. 

According to the authors of the study, *the list of the “most flagrant violations of fundamental international norms by ultranationalist, neo-Nazi, and extremist forces which have monopolized the Euromaidan protests, while far from being exhaustive, nevertheless gives enough grounds to claim that such violations were widespread*.” 

Another violation, according to the authors of the ‘White Book’, is the “interference in the internal affairs of a sovereign state.” 

Among the violations that took place in Ukraine, the ‘White Book’ mentions weapons, equipment, and the tactics of the Euromaidan participants. *It also presents evidence of deliberately committed violence and provocations by the so-called "Peaceful demonstrators.*" 

Meanwhile, *discrimination along ethnic and linguistic lines, xenophobia and racial extremism and incitement of racial hatred are also mentioned in the study, along with religious intolerance, including threats to the Russian Orthodox Church*. 

The document also mentions the serious restrictions on the freedom of media and censorship in Ukraine. Violations of the right to freedom of thought and belief, including political beliefs, and violations of the right to express them are also mentioned in the ‘White Book’ 

“The history of the twentieth century has given tragic lessons which would be irresponsible and also at times just unlawful to ignore. The ‘White Book’ is a signal to those who have forgotten this or pretend to forget,” the document states. 

Examples of violence 

Below there are several cases of human rights violations described in the White Book: 

*On February 18, extremists from the Right Sector seized the headquarters of the Party of Regions in Kiev. Two men were brutally murdered, one died of suffocation and burns, and the other's head was smashed in. Females who were present in the building were stripped half-naked, their backs painted with symbols and slogans. 
*
*On February 19, Maidan protesters severely beat and publicly tortured the governor of the Volyn region in western Ukraine*, in the northwestern city of Lutsk. When Aleksandr Bashkalenko tried to calm down a raging mob of rioters, he was handcuffed to the local Euromaidan stage and asked to sign a “voluntary” resignation. *After he refused, radicals poured several liters of water on him in February temperatures and left him handcuffed*. 

Also on February 19, several buses with activists returning to Crimea from anti-European integration protests in Kiev were stopped at barricades which possessed the flags of the Udar (Strike) and Svoboda parties in Cherkassy region, central Ukraine. *The people, both men and women, were dragged out of the buses by militants who beat them with bats, doused them with gasoline, and threatened to set on them fire.* Many of those captured were forced to take off their shoes “for the needs of Maidan soldiers.” The humiliation and abuse continued for several hours. There were casualties among the victims. Police chose not to interfere. 

*On March 16, at least 30 Ukrainian radicals brutally beat a group of local teenagers in the city of Dnepropetrovsk, eastern Ukraine, because they did not answer the nationalists’ greeting of “Glory to Ukraine*!” Such reports have become commonplace in the city. Though such crimes frequently occur in front of the police, officers try not to get involved, according to the White Book. 

*Abusive attitudes towards Jews is another violation of human rights described in the document,* as it draws an example of vandalism towards a monument to Jewish victims of the Holocaust in the city of Aleksandria in Kirovograd region on February 2. *The vandals used black paint to draw a swastika and wrote “Death to *****” and “Zieg heil” on the monument. 
*
*Earlier, on January 17, Dov Ber Glickman, a 33-year-old Russian citizen, was beaten up after leaving a synagogue.* It appeared that the attackers had blades installed on the toes of their shoes, which left deep wounds.


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> I went over the IMF Country Report on Ukraine. Obviously, they are not going to put into writing that the junta should go in and start killing patriots who are fighting for independence. But, amidst the IMF's typical economic mumbo jumbo I found the following statements that were agreed to by Turchinov, Yatsiniuk, and the rest of the rat pack of the fascist Kiev junta.
> 
> It doesn't take much of an imagination to read between the lines and guess what could very well have been said behind closed doors.
> 
> ...


The first spot you picked doesn't concern me all too much, to me it seems like something you'd expect to see on that type of a document in a situation like this.

The second part, however, is something I don't like. There might indeed be something there.




And I really don't want to get into the flame war but I'll just say that although you're upset (for a reason), you guys might really want to calm down a bit. And that no one has denied what happened in Odessa.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*Right Sector Nazis have put out bounties on journalists who tell the truth about the fascists' atrocities.*

$10,000 a head: Radicals put a bounty on UK journalist in Ukraine


Published time: May 05, 2014 15:36

Ukrainian radicals have put a bounty out on RT stringer Graham Phillips, who is currently working in the east of the country. Also a camera-man working for RT in Odessa has been informed about being on the radicals' radar.

“*Myself I have received threats putting a bounty on my head *to be kidnapped and that has been offered from [the city of] Dnepropetrovsk, as I understand, connected to the Right Sector,” Graham Phillips confirmed while reporting live from the city of Slavyansk. 

*The Right Sector reportedly offered $10,000 for the capture of “a Russian spy.”
*









[/URL][/IMG]
GrahamWPhillips @GrahamWP_UK 
Follow 
Price on my head now set at $10,000. 
2:55 AM - 5 May 2014 
279 Retweets 55 favorites 

The ultra-nationalists also have a cameraman working for RT in the violence-gripped city of Odessa on their radar, RT's Editor-in-Chief Margarita Simonyan confirmed in a statement. 

“*Our camera-man-stringer in Odessa received a call from the Ukrainian Security Service (SBU). [They] said that he is now on the radar of the Right Sector.* [His] former colleagues gave him up. SBU said that the Right Sector now has all his phone numbers and addresses. They gave him up for his anti-Maidan views which he never kept secret,” Simonyan posted on her Twitter. 

RT's Editor-in-Chief’s statement comes after the channel’s correspondent Irina Galushko said on her Twitter that the camera-man she is working with had received threats.


Irina Galushko @IrinaGalushkoRT 
Follow 
cam'man i'm working with just informed his addresses and contacts are in hands of Security Service, Right Sector and Nat'l Guard #Odessa
12:41 PM - 4 May 2014 
10 Retweets 1 favorite 
Reply
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*Foreign journalists working in Ukraine have been subject to an unfolding witch-hunt in Ukraine with assaults and intimidation of reporters intensifying recently*. 

*In one of the latest incidents Lifenews journalists Julia Shustraya and Mikhail Pudovkin, were abducted by armed Ukrainian Security Service members, after they filmed an interview with one of the leaders of the pro-federalization movement in Ukraine. They were detained and later deported to Russia. 
*
On April 21, Simon Ostrovsky, a journalist for the New York-based Vice News, was also detained by self-defense forces in Slavyansk. He was held captive for three days and questioned. He was then released. 

Several days after, on April, 24, the SBU said a Russian and a Belorussian national, both employees of the Russian NTV channel have been detained in the city of Pershotravensk in the Dnipropetrovsk region. 

On April, 26, the heads of Russia's major TV corporations, including RT, called on human rights organizations to “defend the professional rights of journalists working in Ukraine.” 

“*Ukraine’s Donetsk, Lugansk, Kharkov, Dnepropetrovsk and other regions are witnessing the ruthless suppression of civil liberties on a daily basis. Journalists are being threatened with their lives if they continue to report from Ukraine*,” the letter reads, signed by the heads of All-Russia State Television and Radio Broadcasting Company (VGTRK), NTV, REN TV, Channel 5, RT and News Media. 

“The new Ukrainian authorities have repeatedly taken illegal actions barring our staff journalists covering the Ukraine crisis from performing their professional duties and violating their human dignity,” the letter said.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Its funny how the artist formally known as Thomas started this thread because he felt that eastern Europe was being ignored 

Now he is apparently a Nazi that worships the west

HE MUST OF STARTED THIS THREAD TO TRICK US


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

The Manowarrior said:


> First off, I don't deny it. I never did. Why you keep making up facts? Quote me denying any of that. Go ahead. And still, you don't have the proof, do you?


Just ignore him. He too often makes baseless accusations about us and then we asked to corrborate it with actual evidence (i.e., from previous postings), he intentionally overlooks it and never bothers replies. He just seems to find joy in groundlessly dubbing people who don't conform to his viewpoints as 'Nazis'. It's this type of dyadic thinking that bothers me.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Despot said:


> Just ignore him. He too often makes baseless accusations about us and then we asked to corrborate it with actual evidence (i.e., from previous postings), he intentionally overlooks it and never bothers replies. He just seems to find joy in groundlessly dubbing people who don't conform to his viewpoints as 'Nazis'. It's this type of dyadic thinking that bothers me.


Well with me he's actually right 

Here is my yearbook photo










I feel that it captures my good side


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

ACTION "THANK YOU FOR THE VICTORY!" LAUNCHED IN BELARUS








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The Youth patriotic action "*Thank you for the victory!" *was launched in *Minsk Victory Square* by the *Byelorussian Republican Youth Union* and the *Byelorussian Republican Pioneer Organization*, BelTA has learned.

Leaders and activists of the BRYU, BRPO, and veterans observed a moment of silence in memory of their ancestors who died during the *Great Patriotic War*, and laid wreaths and flowers at the Eternal Flame to the sound of music of a military orchestra.








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First Secretary of the Youth Union Igor Buzovsky said: "The people who survived the war, winning a victory for us, do not just deserve the Eternal Flame and the eternal memory in our hearts. Unfortunately, young people know little about the heroes of the Great Patriotic War. Not enough work has been performed on patriotic education of the younger generation to preserve the memory of those great people. This action not only for young people, but for all citizens of Belarus, and for the whole world to remember the people who won the peace and tranquility in our lands."








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Before the ceremony BRYU and BRPO activists attached to the lapels of veterans red and green ribbons with badges in the form of a red star with the words "*Thank you for the victory*!". This distinguished sign reflects the relationship between the generation of heroes of the Victory with the current generation of young Byelorussians. Such a star is a sign of gratitude and respect for the heroic past with which people adorn the doors of homes and flats inhabited by war veterans.








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BRYU activists, Pioneers, and Cadets carried portraits of heroes on the Square of Victory - our compatriots, *Heroes of the Soviet Union*, written in the golden pages of the history of the *Victory in the Great Patriotic War*. On the square were installed mobile symbolic cards on which congratulations and best wishes to the veterans could be left by anyone.








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The patriotic youth project "*Thanks for the Victory*!" was joined by members of the international gathering of retro and classic cars "*Retro-Minsk 2014*" from Belarus and countriesof the near and far abroad - more than 50 crews. With the young people they laid flowers at the monument. After doing a lap of honor around the Victory Square in their unique cars they organized a convoy and continued through the main streets of Minsk.








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On the eve of the greatest national holiday, Victory Day, BRPO and BRYU activists across the country will honor and congratulate the veterans. Cards and souveniers will be handed out with the best wishes of our young people, Pioneers and Youth Union members will render them all possible assistance in the home. The BRYU and Pioneers will organize rallies, art festivals, patriotic song contests, youth forums, concerts, meetings of young people with veterans at round tables, seminars, talk shows, class hours, the demonstration of thematic films and theater productions.








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The highlight event of the action will be the project "*Heroes' Victory*", which is initiated by the activists of the primary organization *BRYU Faculty of History *and the *Institute of Journalism* with the support of *BSU Museum of the History of WWII*. Youth interest in research work on the study of biographies and exploits of the *Heroes of the Soviet Union* during the war, natives of Belarus, expanded the scope of activities of search groups across the country. New faces and new Heroes or the Victory are reflected in a series of posters and calendars this year.








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The patriotic action BRYU "Thanks for the Victory!" Will be held in Belarus from 3 to 11 May.








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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Hey everyone 

This year is actually the 60th anniversary of the first publishing of Marta Hillers' "A Women in Berlin" one of the earliest books written on the mass rape and looting of Berlin at the end of WW2 by the Red Army

I actually read it for my WW2 class years ago along with Red Partisan and a book by the Imperial Japanese army whose name I forgot and found it OK

I always go through my WW2 collection around this time of year


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

stevefox1200 said:


> Hey everyone
> 
> This year is actually the 60th anniversary of the first publishing of Marta Hillers' "A Women in Berlin" one of the earliest books written on the mass rape and looting of Berlin at the end of WW2 by the Red Army
> 
> ...


I do the same with my WW II collection. I also peruse the internet to remind myself of what the Nazis perpetrated during the war. It's important not to forget.

- Mike


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)




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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

NON-COMBATANT NURSE GUN DOWNED IN EASTERN UKRAINE BY JUNTA SCUM IS BURIED TODAY
























ETERNAL MEMORY TO HER - HOW MUCH LONGER? - WHERE IS THE RUSSIAN ARMY?







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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

SLAVYANSK WOMAN GUN DOWNED ON HER BALCONY BY SNIPER


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> SLAVYANSK WOMAN GUN DOWNED ON HER BALCONY BY SNIPER


"All she ever wanted was unity for Ukraine and *GOOD RELATIONS WITH RUSSIA*" fpalm


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

I'm not gonna say anything about this video. Judge yourself. This is actually from a Russian parody show. Pretty good show, but I hate it when entertainment and sports go into politics.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> I'm not gonna say anything about this video. Judge yourself. This is actually from a Russian parody show. Pretty good show, but I hate it when entertainment and sports go into politics.


This was a well done parody and, actually, amusing given what is going on. It's a nice break from the situation.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Ukrainian Government Sides with Neo-Nazis Against Own People – Lavrov










VIENNA, May 6 (RIA Novosti) - *The West continues to ignore the fact that Ukrainian army is fighting side by side with neo-Nazis against their own people*, Russian Foreign Ministry Sergei Lavrov said Tuesday.

Lavrov said that European Union and US officials avoid commenting on the fact that *the Ukrainian army was ordered to fight together with neo-Nazi groups against protesters in eastern and southeastern regions*.

“*In the midst of February Maidan confrontations in Kiev, NATO Defense Ministers and Secretary General stated the inadmissibility of intervention of the armed forces of Ukraine in the political process, and insisted on the neutrality of the army,*” Lavrov said.

The Russian foreign minister said that Brussels and Washington continue to confirm the legitimacy of the so-called “anti-terrorist operation” led by Kiev’s authorities explaining that the state has the monopoly on the use of armed forces.

Since seizing power on February 22, *the coup-installed government has sought to reinforce the country’s regular military forces with members of radical groups who fought against police during the street violence in Kiev*.

Radical nationalist movements were an important force at the so-called Euromaidan protests that erupted in Kiev last November. Activists took part in the seizure of administration buildings, stole weapons and attacked security forces. *Currently, far-right activists are involved in suppressing pro-federalization protests in eastern Ukrainian regions.
*
Dmitry Yarosh, a notorious leader of the ultranationalist Right Sector movement, announced last month the creation of paramilitary units whose aim would be to help regular troops to crush dissent in the east. *Since that time, their involvement in deadly violence in rebel regions has been widely reported by pro-federalization protesters*.

*The country’s authorities have also established **the National Guard, a new military structure made of “troops loyal to the new regime and self-defense units” formed by Euromaidan protesters this winter*.

“All the members of the Council of Europe must firmly stop the ultra-nationalists activities, and those who indulge the ideology and the practice of fascism cannot be justified, even if they were politicians enjoying the protection of the enlightened western democracies,” Lavrov said.

The growing political influence of neo-Nazis and ultranationalists in Ukraine has raised concerns among the country’s Russian speakers and other national minorities, prompting several eastern and southeastern regions to demand greater autonomy or even secession.

*The incumbent government comprises members of the notorious neo-Nazi Svoboda party, an active promoter of ultranationalist ideas*. Its members follow ideas of Stepan Bandera, who collaborated with Nazi Germany during World War II and is known for atrocities committed during the wartime ethnic cleansing of Poles, Jews and Russians.

With the presidential campaign in Ukraine in full swing, a slew of Ukrainian presidential candidates have been actively propagating their far-right views, *including Yarosh and Svoboda member Oleh Tyahnybok.
*


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Kiev Committing Genocide of Russian, Ukrainian People – Russian Official










BELGRADE, May 6 (RIA Novosti) – The latest episodes of violence in Ukraine constitute a genocide against the Russian and Ukrainian people, Russian State Duma Speaker Sergei Naryshkin said during a Balkan forum Tuesday.

“*We are dealing with the real genocide of both Russian and Ukrainian people*,” said Naryshkin, commenting on the tragic events in Odessa on May 2, when 46 federalization activists were killed in clashes.

He added that Russia was shocked by the massacre in Odessa and mourns the victims together with their families.

“In the 21st century such things happen not only due to the fault of a bunch of political adventurists – they are not worth much on their own, they will get what they deserve from their people. *The main problem is that the horrific truth is being kept from the whole world,*” Naryshkin said.

*According to the speaker, Kiev’s authorities initially based their policy on civil confrontation*. They have now demonstrated their unwillingness to find and punish those responsible for the numerous crimes that have been committed in Ukraine in recent months, he added.

Pro-federalization rallies have swept southeastern regions of Ukraine since March. Kiev’s current authorities launched a special operation to crack down on protesters in mid-April. Dozens of activists have died in subsequent clashes. The highest death toll was recorded in Odessa, where 46 people died and 214 were injured during a fire in the House of Trade Unions on May 2.

The Russian Foreign Ministry called the events a result of the “*criminal irresponsibility of the Kiev leadership indulging insolent nationalist radicals, including Right Sector, who are staging a campaign of physical terror against supporters of federalization and real constitutional changes in Ukrainian society*."


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Belarus ahead of Israel and Japan on Save the Children's Mother's Index










06 May 2014 18:45 | Society

MINSK, 6 May (BelTA) – According to *Save the Children's *annual *Mother's Index *that ranks the best and worst places to be a mother, *Belarus is the 26th in the list of 178 countries *and is ahead of such countries as Israel (28th), Poland (29th), the United States (31st) and Japan (32nd). Belarus shares the 26th spot together with the United Kingdom, BelTA has learned.

*Belarus also ranked 26th in 2013*.

For the second year in a row Finland has been recognized by the Save the Children experts as the best place to be a mother. Next on the list are Norway, Sweden, Iceland, the Netherlands, Denmark, Spain, Germany, Australia, Belgium and Italy.

This year Lithuania was ranked 24th, Latvia 34th, Russia 62nd, Kazakhstan 63rd, Ukraine 72nd, Armenia 95th, Azerbaijan 99th, Uzbekistan 111th.

Somali was ranked the lowest.

*The index is based on the WHO data and takes into account five basic parameters: mortality at childbirth, infant mortality, mean years of schooling, women's incomes, the proportion of women and men in government*.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Belarus ahead of Israel and Japan on Save the Children's Mother's Index
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Really surprised to see Lithuania that high. Pretty cool.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

ODESSA SURVIVOR DESCRIBES ANIMAL FEROCITY AND INHUMANITY OF WESTERN UKRAINIAN RIGHT SECTOR KILLERS


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Belarus president: We will not give away our great victory








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07 May 2014 15:03 

MOSCOW, 7 May (BelTA) – Mankind should be grateful to the nations who won the Great Patriotic War. Belarus President Alexander Lukashenko made the statement as he met with Prime Minister of Russia Dmitry Medvedev in Moscow on 7 May, BelTA has learned.

“*We will not give away our victory*. Mankind should be grateful for this victory,” said Alexander Lukashenko.

The Belarusian leader underlined that Belarusians have nothing to be ashamed of before the generations that secured the victory. “*Belarusians have never hesitated. We have always celebrated Victory Day as the greatest holiday*,” said the President. He also invited Dmitry Medvedev to see the new Great Patriotic War museum during his next visit to Minsk. *The museum symbolizes the attitude of the Belarusian nation towards the memory of the heroism of Soviet peoples*.

Alexander Lukashenko remarked that his visit to Russia on the eve of Victory Day was not accidental. “We have come to congratulate the Russians on this great holiday,” he said.

In turn, Dmitry Medvedev asked to convey his congratulations to Belarusian veterans from the Russian government. “*In our countries Victory Day is held in high esteem, it is celebrated by all the generations. The tradition will never lose value,*” said the Prime Minister of Russia.



Belarus president's wreath laid at Unknown Soldier's Tomb in Moscow

07 May 2014 18:00 

MOSCOW, 7 May (BelTA) – A wreath from Belarus President Alexander Lukashenko was laid at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier near the Kremlin wall in Moscow on 7 May, BelTA has learned.

*The solemn ceremony was dedicated to the 60th anniversary of the Victory in the Great Patriotic War*. Attending the ceremony were Consul Ambassador of the Embassy of Belarus in Russia Vladimir Koltovich, State Secretary of the Union State of Belarus and Russia Grigory Rapota, CIS Executive Secretary Sergei Lebedev, State Secretary, Deputy Foreign Minister of Russia Grigory Karasin, member of the Russian parliament Leonid Slutsky, Deputy State Secretary of the Union State of Belarus and Russia Ivan Bambiza, and pilot cosmonaut, two-time Hero of the Soviet Union Piotr Klimuk.

Flowers at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier and memorial signs Minsk Hero City and Brest Hero Fortress in the Alley of Hero Cities were also laid by diplomats and officers of the Embassy of Belarus in Russia, representatives of the Eurasian Economic Commission, the Permanent Committee of the Union State and the Parliamentary Assembly of the Union of Belarus and Russia, heads of the national and cultural autonomies of Belarusians in Russia, and veterans, who took part in Belarus' liberation.

After the ceremony Grigory Rapota informed mass media about the commemorative events that will be held within the framework of the Union State in timing with the 70th anniversary of Belarus' liberation. Topical seminars and symposiums are supposed to be held in Belarus and Russia. Monuments are supposed to be unveiled. Grigory Rapota said he believes that getting young people to participate in the commemorative events was very important. “*Young people should know as much as possible about the deed committed by our nations, about the heroism of Soviet soldiers, who put an end to fascism*,” said the State Secretary.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Day of Memory in Grodno

07.05.2014

The Grodno youth project “Living History” organized a theatrical Day of Memory event for war veterans on 7 May. Attending the event were more than 30 veterans of the Great Patriotic War, and also Grodno residents who were prisoners of concentration camps, and workers of rear. 








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In the photo: during the theatrical Day of Memory event.
Photo by Leonid Shcheglov, BelTA.


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> First off, I don't deny it. I never did. Why you keep making up facts? Quote me denying any of that. Go ahead. And still, you don't have the proof, do you?


LOLOLOLOL DAFUQ

Zombie kamikaze neo nazi African Rebels just invaded Canada!!! But I'm not going to post proof & then resort to calling you a fascist in every single post :moyes6


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## MikeTO (May 17, 2013)

I´m kinda surprised that thread like this exists here. But to the point.
I have to admit, I read only few pages here (thread is long as shit)and I don´t watch this conflict too closely. There is only one thing I can say for sure, people of Ukraine are pretty much fucked. They are getting "raped" from Russia and at the same time they are fucked in the asses from "other party". Very tough situation.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

MikeTO said:


> I´m kinda surprised that thread like this exists here. But to the point.
> I have to admit, I read only few pages here (thread is long as shit)and I don´t watch this conflict too closely. There is only one thing I can say for sure, people of Ukraine are pretty much fucked. They are getting "raped" from Russia and at the same time they are fucked in the asses from "other party". Very tough situation.


Explain how they are being "raped" by Russia?

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

MikeTO said:


> There is only one thing I can say for sure, people of Ukraine are pretty much fucked. *They are getting "raped" from Russia *and at the same time they are fucked in the asses from "other party". Very tough situation.


*THIS IS “RAPING” UKRAINE???*

Just a cursory look will give you a good idea of why the people of Crimea voted to secede from Ukraine and the Kiev junta. If you were Crimean would you rather live as part of Russia or enslaved by the Western puppet Kiev junta and the IMF in a subsistence economy??? 

According to* REUTERS*:

_“Moscow has pledged to spend billions of dollars on everything from higher pensions to a bridge linking the region to Russia, with *almost $7 billion (4 billion pounds) earmarked this year alone.*”

*HIGHER PENSIONS AND WAGES*

“Russia is raising pensions and public sector wages in Crimea to Russian levels, which involves *doubling pensions for around 600,000 pensioners and pay for around 140,000 state sector workers*.”

“Russian officials have put the annual cost of higher state pensions at *36 billion roubles ($1 billion) per year*.”

“According to an analysis by a Russian senator, the annual cost of higher pensions reaches *70 billion roubles ($2 billion*) when military pensions are included, reflecting the large number of retired servicemen in Crimea.”

“Raising the average pay of 140,000 public sector employees from the Crimean average to the Russian average would cost around *30 billion roubles ($840 million) a year*, based on official pay statistics._”

Compare this to the $17 million IMF loan (with its restrictions and requirements) to bolster the empty coffers of the Ukrainian National Treasury *that have been pillaged for over two decades by Kuchma, Yushchenko, Tymoshenko, Yanukovich, and their oligarch pals*.

More than likely, a good portion of this money will go into the pockets of the present heads of the illegal government in Kiev and the oligarchs. *Meanwhile, the Ukrainian people will see pensions and salaries halved and the general collapse of the already decimated economy*.

*IT'S PRETTY OBVIOUS WHO HAS BEEN "RAPING" THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE - BUT, IT WASN'T RUSSIA! IT WAS (AND IS) THE UKRAINIAN LEADERSHIP. NOW, THE WEST CAN GET INTO THE ACT AND GET THEIR PIECE OF THE ACTION!*

- Mike


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## MikeTO (May 17, 2013)

Batko10 said:


> Explain how they are being "raped" by Russia?


Rape is kinda harsh word, thats why I put it in quotes.
Things you mentioned in the other response to me... do you really believe they did all of that just because of good heart? There must be reason why they want Krym ( I don´t know how to spell it right in English ) so bad and I believe there must be something behinnd it(sounds a bit crazy I know). The truth will never be relieved to us common people..
I just want to common people in Ukraine live in peace, choose their own representative in goverment, and figure the next steps in diplomatic ways.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

MikeTO said:


> Rape is kinda harsh word, thats why I put it in quotes.
> Things you mentioned in the other response to me... do you really believe they did all of that just because of good heart? There must be reason why they want Krym ( I don´t know how to spell it right in English ) so bad and I believe there must be something behinnd it(sounds a bit crazy I know). The truth will never be relieved to us common people..
> I just want to common people in Ukraine live in peace, choose their own representative in goverment, and figure the next steps in diplomatic ways.


Prior to the junta usurping power in Kiev the Crimean naval bases were under long term lease to Russia and Moscow was fine with that. After the insurgency and coup the whole apple cart was overturned and Russian interests were in danger from the U.S. and NATO who backed, if not engineered, the coup.

Obviously, Russia is protecting its interests. However, it is *NOT* "raping" Crimea or Ukraine by doing so. The Crimeans voted to secede from the illegitimate Kiev junta's government. By joining Russia Crimeans get a decent economy and life style along with Russian protection from the fascist government of the neo-Nazi Kiev junta.

Other regions in the east and south don't want anything to do with the U.S. puppet government in Kiev. The people there know full well what they are in for if they don't resist the Kiev junta - Western Ukrainian neo-fascist rule, IMF enslavement, and an economy even worse than the one they had before the the insurgency in February.

Seriously, which would you pick? At least with Russia the state's obliged to bring living standards up to the level of Russian citizens. And, that living standard is way, way higher than the Ukrainian living standard even before the February putsch.

- Mike


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## MikeTO (May 17, 2013)

Batko10 said:


> Seriously, which would you pick?


 As you can see I´m from Slovakia which is part of EU and things (economy etc.) are not really good at the moment. So to answer your question I would pick russian side (maybe because my opinion is influenced by state of my country). I believe people of Ukraine will look at the things same way as I do (choose better living standards etc.)

I guess you can see what my point is. Innocent people caught in crossfire of two Sides and their politics and many unnecesarry deaths.

One offtopic question. Does your username have some meaning? In my language is batko one of terms to describe old experienced man.


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

Donestk is going to declare independence this weekend.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

MikeTO said:


> As you can see I´m from Slovakia which is part of EU and things (economy etc.) are not really good at the moment. So to answer your question I would pick russian side (maybe because my opinion is influenced by state of my country). I believe people of Ukraine will look at the things same way as I do (choose better living standards etc.)
> 
> I guess you can see what my point is. Innocent people caught in crossfire of two Sides and their politics and many unnecesarry deaths.
> 
> One offtopic question. Does your username have some meaning? In my language is batko one of terms to describe old experienced man.


"Батько"/"Batko" in Ukrainian means "father." My wife was a Kharkovchanka and my son was born in Kharkov. I'm an Amercan of Byelorussian descent, i.e. I was born in New York, but my people are from Minsk and Grodno.

I am very much emotionally invested in what is going on in Ukraine and all the Eastern Slavic countries from a personal perspective. These are my people. 

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Belarusian Troops for Victory Day Parade in Moscow










08 May 2014 16:32

MOSCOW, 8 May (BelTA) – *Russians and Belarusians should walk across the Red Square together as part of the parade to celebrate the 70th anniversary of the victory in the Great Patriotic War*. Belarus President Alexander Lukashenko made the relevant statement as he met with President of Russia Vladimir Putin in Moscow on 8 May, BelTA has learned.

“We truly were together back then and after that and are together now,” said the Belarusian leader. “You and I should consider the idea of Belarusians and Russians somehow demonstrating this unity. I think it will be fine if our troops take part in the Red Square parade”.

*Alexander Lukashenko pointed out that the Belarusian side always invites Russian troops for parades*. “I think if you agree, we will consider the possibility and will demonstrate it one more time 70 years after our victory,” noted the Belarus President.

*He also congratulated Russians on Victory Day*.

Vladimir Putin thanked Alexander Lukashenko for visiting Moscow on the eve of Victory Day. “I know that you are busy preparing for the celebration and the ice hockey world championship. A lot of things to do, nevertheless, you managed to find spare time to come here. It seems to me it is natural. As former components of the Soviet Union, *Russia and Belarus made a huge contribution and sacrificed a lot in the fight against Nazism. Therefore, it is only natural for the two nations to be together on these days,” *noted the President of Russia.

During the informal meeting of the leaders of the five states Alexander Lukashenko pointed out that the present Victory Day is different from previous ones because the deed of the great victory is unanimously and clearly recognized. 

“*It is very important. Various attempts have been made to diminish the role of the Soviet people in this victory, our role, the role of our nations. The attempts even stooped so low as to blame us for launching this horrible disaster in the middle of the last century*. Thanks to our unity we are not afraid of speaking about our victory. We clearly underline, everyone does, the importance of the victory. *It is important because we saved the global civilization from destruction*, we reduced the voices of our ill-wishers,” said the Belarusian leader. He added that it was particularly important because the younger generation should understand the value of the victory, should treasure and believe in the victory.


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

RE - Batko AKA Russians are the real victims AKA Russians don't carry weapons AKA All negative views of Russia is the slander of the imperialist capitalist dictator western states AKA If you don't aqree with my views I will label you a neo-nazi


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The President
of the Republic of Belarus

The official Internet portal of the President of the Republic of Belarus


Alexander Lukashenko extends Victory Day greetings to Belarusian people

8 May 2014 

Dear compatriots,

I send my best greetings on the great and sacred holiday for all of us – Victory Day.

69 hardworking and heroic years separate us from fireworks which were launched into the sky in 1945. But that spring will forever remain a symbol of unparalleled feat of our great grandfathers, grandfathers and fathers.

The Great Patriotic War made history as a fierce opposition of two worlds and two ideologies – Humanism and Nazism. We will never forget that the peoples of the Soviet Union made a decisive contribution to the defeat of Hitler’s Germany.

No sufferings and hardships could break the fighting spirit of Soviet people. Soldiers at the front, in irregular forces, underground movements and at the home front fought against the enemy courageously and selflessly.

And they won! They defended the country, rebuilt it from ruins and ashes, developed cutting-edge science and rich culture. Their achievements are the foundation that we use to build our sovereign state.

These days the entire Belarus honors and thanks heroes of the Victory. We are enormously grateful to you, dear veterans, and treasure your main precept to love the Fatherland, protect its interests and always be together, close-knit and united, in order to prevent attempts to humiliate Belarusians, impose hostile will on them. Belarusian people are victors. This feeling is a source of our pride and strength.

Dear compatriots, I wish you strong health, labor achievements, happiness, wellbeing, clear and peaceful skies.

Happy Victory Day!

Alexander Lukashenko

This page is available at: http://president.gov.by/en/news_en/...ctory-day-greetings-to-belarusian-people-8713


© 2014, The Press Service of the President of the Republic of Belarus








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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Al Borland said:


> RE - Batko AKA Russians are the real victims AKA Russians don't carry weapons AKA All negative views of Russia is the slander of the imperialist capitalist dictator western states AKA If you don't aqree with my views I will label you a neo-nazi


This is the other side of the situation, which Batko refuses to talk about or even acknowledge.

This, according to him, are the peacemakers, who fight for good.










And these thugs with Kalashnikovs, according to him, are the legitimate government.










They don't even look like sane people, let alone, people able to be in the government of an entire region. They look like former inmates.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

С ДНЕМ ПОБЕДЫ​


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

2014 VICTORY DAY PARADE IN MOSCOW​


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

DONBASS CELEBRATES VICTORY DAY!


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

LOL Me and Al Borland made some posts which Batko didn't like, so now he's gonna ignore them and make a shitload of posts aboyut the same exact thing to bury thoes posts so that no one sees them.


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## Spanish Lariato (Jul 26, 2011)

A little sample of the mediatic terrorism that we are suffering.
Europa Press is calling the civilians murdered by the Nazi Troops "terrorists". 
http://www.europapress.es/internaci...ariupol-ministro-interior-20140509151336.html
The journalists, at the service of Capital, are complicits in the Ukrainian genocide.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

​KIEV JUNTA TROOPS ATTACK VICTORY DAY PARADE IN MARIUIPOL, SHOOT UNARMED CIVILIANS

LOCAL MARIUPOL POLICE REFUSE ORDERS TO SHOOT CIVILIANS, JOIN FIGHT AGAINST JUNTA INVASION

Tanks, armed assault in Mariupol city center, casualties reported

Published time: May 09, 2014 09:31 






*Kiev’s forces are using heavy weaponry and tanks in the eastern city of Mariupol to storm the local Interior Ministry building, where police have barricaded inside*. After residents began flocking to the scene, *Kiev fighters opened fire on civilians*.

*Many people came to mark Victory Day, but as the reports of shooting started coming in, they moved on to show support for a few dozen policemen who had barricaded inside the building, refusing to take orders from Kiev.* 

Federalization supporters screamed “Fascists!” as the Kiev forces approached. 

*One of the armored vehicles then opened fire at a group of unarmed civilians*, according to a self-defense forces’ representative. 

*Two people died and eight were wounded in the shooting*, local witnesses reported, as cited by Interfax.Ten people with gunshot wounds have been taken to one of the hospitals in Mariupol, local media reported. 
*
About 20 anti-Kiev activists have been killed in fighting in Mariupol and four more were taken captive, Ukrainian Interior Minister Arsen Avakov said on his Facebook page*. 

According to the 0629.ua news portal, “a tank was seized at the crossroads of Lenina and Torgovaya streets by the representatives of the Donetsk People’s Republic.” 

Mariupol’s residents have put up barricades in the streets, burned tires and turned over cars. 

“At 12.50, 14 tanks were spotted coming from the agricultural base towards Mariupol. According to medics, there are two dead and 8 wounded,” 0629.ua portal stated. 

The outlet also reported that “on the Lenin avenue, two people were seriously wounded – one in the head and another in the stomach. A huge pool of blood is next to the “Arbat” café. It’s not known whether the wounded people have survived. Witnesses say they were driven away in a passenger car. The fighting is on next to the main police department, gunfire is heard. Two armored vehicles blocked the Artyom street.” 

The main Interior Ministry building is on fire, 0629.ua news portal reported. 

*RT’s stringer in Mariupol has been injured while trying to film and is now in hospital. Doctors say that in spite of his bulletproof vest he has sustained an injury to the stomach*. 

The witness also stated that another group of city residents set a car tire on fire next to the city council building. 

Earlier, self-defense forces in Mariupol reported that armed people had tried to seize the local city department of the Interior Ministry. 

“Camouflaged people are storming the building of the city’s interior ministry department. A bus with soldiers has driven up – they are from a military unit located in the vicinity of Mariupol. *Policemen who refuse to obey Kiev regime’s orders are being detained*,” a representative of the self-defense forces told Interfax. 

The self-defense forces also said that “*policemen of the city department refused to obey Kiev’s orders and guard the building of the city council, which had been seized a day earlier by the Ukrainian security services. As a result, Kiev authorities decided to storm the building of the city Interior Ministry department, policemen are shooting back, the building is surrounded*.” 

Self-defense forces say the government forces used heavy weaponry while storming the local branch of the Interior Ministry. “*Armored vehicles approached the building and opened fire with heavy weapons*. The building is old and has thick walls, so you can’t penetrate it with machine gun fire,” a representative of the self-defense forces told Interfax news agency. 

“On the central street of the city, I saw tanks and armored vehicles with the Ukrainian flags at around 11.40 am [local time]. Then, the city residents started to gather near the city executive committee building. Then some of the protesters tried to go to the district department of interior, but it seemed that the Kiev regime military was beginning to shoot at those who attempted to approach. I don’t know if they were shooting to kill, but at their legs – that’s for sure,” local resident Grigory told RT. 

City streets are now on lockdown for transport and pedestrians, as armored vehicles are approaching from the airport outside the city. 

"*Yesterday we were told that some provocations were being prepared, but people didn't believe it, so a Victory Day parade was scheduled for 9am today," a local resident, who identified herself as Victoria, told RT. 
*
Ukrainian MP Oleg Lyashko claims that forces loyal to the Kiev coup-installed government have orders “not to take anyone alive.” He wrote in his Facebook account that “the perimeter around the Interior Ministry department building in Mariupol is completely blocked by the armed forces. Terrorists are barricaded inside and are now returning fire. An order has been issued not to take anyone alive.”


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> They don't even look like sane people, let alone, people able to be in the government of an entire region. They look like former inmates.





Here are some of the supposedly sane people running the Kiev junta's government. They look more like people who should be in prison or a mental institution, *NOT* running a country:

*OLEKSANDDR TURCHINOV - "PRESIDENT" OF UKRAINE*









*ARSENY YATSINIUK - "PRIME MINISTER" OF UKRAINE*









*DMITRY YAROSH - "DEPUTY SECRETARY OF NATIONAL SECURITY & DEFENSE COUNCIL " OF UKRAINE*
Leader of neo-Nazi Right Sector 









*ANDREY PARUBIY - "SECRETARY OF NATIONAL SECURITY & DEFENSE COUNCIL" OF UKRAINE*
Founder of neo-Nazi "National Socialist Party of Ukraine"









*OLEH TYAHNIBOK - REPRESENTATIVE TO THE VERKHOVNA RADA (SUPREME COUNCIL/PARLIAMENT) OF UKRAINE*
Leader of neo-Nazi Svoboda Party


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> LOL Me and Al Borland made some posts which Batko didn't like, so now he's gonna ignore them and make a shitload of posts aboyut the same exact thing to bury thoes posts so that no one sees them.


No, Tomas. I was not ignoring you and your pal. I was just busy trying to get some videos and articles on the holiday posted on the board. 

Unfortunately, you and your buddy decided to ignore the holiday as did the Kiev junta that sent troops to put down the Victory Day Parade in Mariupol and is killing civilians as we speak.

For two guys who don't support the nazi Kiev junta, you sure as hell ignore their ongoing crimes and repression of the free will of the people of Ukraine.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> No, Tomas. I was not ignoring you and your pal. I was just busy trying to get some videos and articles on the holiday posted on the board.
> 
> Unfortunately, you and your buddy decided to ignore the holiday as did the Kiev junta that sent troops to put down the Victory Day Parade in Mariupol and is killing civilians as we speak.
> 
> ...


The government of Ukraine didn't ignore it. They cancelled the parade. That's not ignoring.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> The government of Ukraine didn't ignore it. They cancelled the parade. That's not ignoring.


Cancelling the parade is tantamount to ignoring the holiday. Instead, they just decided to shoot down people in Mariupol who are celebrating Victory Day. 

For someone who doesn't support the fascist junta you certainly turn a blind eye to their criminal acts. Even the local Mariupol police refused to harm civilians and stood up to the Right Sector troops being sent into the city. A few dozen of them are holding out in the Ministry of the Interior. 

Since you say you don't support the nazis in the junta, why not try seriously analyzing what the junta is doing, instead of trying to twist the blame to the people who want to exercise their free will and get away from the illegal government in Kiev.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Cancelling the parade is tantamount to ignoring the holiday. Instead, they just decided to shoot down people in Mariupol who are celebrating Victory Day.
> 
> For someone who doesn't support the fascist junta you certainly turn a blind eye to their criminal acts. Even the local Mariupol police refused to harm civilians and stood up to the Right Sector troops being sent into the city. A few dozen of them are holding out in the Ministry of the Interior.
> 
> ...


Russians killing Ukrainians, Ukrainians killing Russians. It is beyond me why you defend one side and antagonize the other, when both sides are equally as bad as the other one. The only side I supported were the people, who came out to the streets and wanted a better life. What is happening right now, has nothing to do with them anymore, so there is no side for me to support. I only post counter-arguments to your posts, because I don't want your far-left views to dominate this thread, it would be too much one-sided and I don't want that, as it is a discussion thread. If it was just you posting pro-Russian news and everybody else agreeing with you, it wouldn't be a discussion.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

You know I was thinking 

The Nazis were a purposely Germany first party so if you are a nazi party based in another nation than you are not really a Nazi in the traditional sense

You can be a Nazi like party but you can't be THE nazi party

Also I feel like we are almost dancing are "Western Ukrainians are genetically evil"


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

stevefox1200 said:


> You know I was thinking
> 
> The Nazis were a purposely Germany first party so if you are a nazi party based in another nation than you are not really a Nazi in the traditional sense
> 
> ...


Nazi is derived from the word nationalist, which means that they are for their own nation, no matter what it is.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

The Manowarrior said:


> Nazi is derived from the word nationalist, which means that they are for their own nation, no matter what it is.


Yeah it just that the original Nazi party had a lot of quarks and race based agendas that, at least my mind, don't translate well to other races or cultures


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Russians killing Ukrainians, Ukrainians killing Russians. It is beyond me why you defend one side and antagonize the other, when both sides are equally as bad as the other one. The only side I supported were the people, who came out to the streets and wanted a better life. What is happening right now, has nothing to do with them anymore, so there is no side for me to support. I only post counter-arguments to your posts, because I don't want your far-left views to dominate this thread, it would be too much one-sided and I don't want that, as it is a discussion thread. If it was just you posting pro-Russian news and everybody else agreeing with you, it wouldn't be a discussion.


Firstly, it is UKRAINIANS killing UKRAINIANS! Many, if not most, of the people living in the east and south are ethnic UKRAINIANS who speak Russian. They are mixed in with the ethnic RUSSIANS who speak Russian. Both are fighting against the junta.

What is happening right now has everything to do with the people. The people of the east and south do *NOT* recognize the unelected Kiev junta which is dominated, if not outright controlled, by neo-Nazi elements whose agenda is to create a "pure" Ukraine, i.e. for Western Ukrainians. Russians, Jews, and Ukrainians who are not deemed "pure" are targets.

The *PEOPLE* of Odessa, Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk, Slavyansk, Kramatorsk, Mariupol, etc. are demanding their right to chose whether or not to remain as part of Ukraine. More of them are being killed by the Right Sector troops sent in by the Kiev junta than the actual fighters occupying strategic buildings. 

How can you say that these people who are being terrorized and killed by Right Sector and the Kiev junta are "equally as bad?" 

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*RIGHT SECTOR SHOOTING UNARMED CITIZENS IN MARIUPOL*






*THOUSANDS OF UNARMED MAURIPOL CITIZENS MARCH AGAINST KIEV JUNTA & RIGHT SECTOR THUGS*
"ПОЗОР! ПОЗОР! ПОЗОР!..." (SHAME, DISGRACE)




So, some on our list will say all these people are Russian spies. Yeah, right!

- Mike


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

> The people of the east and south do NOT recognize the unelected Kiev junta which is dominated, if not outright controlled, by neo-Nazi elements whose agenda is to create a "pure" Ukraine, i.e. for Western Ukrainians.


:ti

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...raine-s-true-human-rights-threat-un-says.html

Nazis are running Kiev honestly all you can do is laugh in the face of shit like that. the two biggest ministries right-wing nationalists control are the ministries of agriculture and natural resources, i can only imagine what kind of sinister fascist plans they have to use their authority over coal mines and turnip farmers to turn ukraine all swastika-y. 

the kiev government is dominated and controlled by a bunch of squishy technocrats of the kind that you'll find all over europe particularly in the EU bureaucracy.


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## elhijodelbodallas (Jan 30, 2014)

Hey Batko, what does your psychiatrist say about your posts in this thread?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

deepelemblues said:


> Nazis are running Kiev honestly all you can do is laugh in the face of shit like that. the two biggest ministries right-wing nationalists control are the ministries of agriculture and natural resources, i can only imagine what kind of sinister fascist plans they have to use their authority over coal mines and turnip farmers to turn ukraine all swastika-y.
> 
> the kiev government is dominated and controlled by a bunch of squishy technocrats of the kind that you'll find all over europe particularly in the EU bureaucracy.


Hey, bud! Go back to sleep after you finish reading your "Bloomberg," NY Times, and the rest of the western media that obfuscates and just plain lies.

*ANDREY PARUBIY - "SECRETARY OF NATIONAL SECURITY & DEFENSE COUNCIL" OF UKRAINE*
*Founder of neo-Nazi "National Socialist Party of Ukraine"*
Using the newly formed "National Guard" composed of Right Sector and Svoboda troops in eastern and souther Ukraine, because the Ukrainian 
Army regulars are refusing to shoot their own people!

*DMITRY YAROSH - "DEPUTY SECRETARY OF NATIONAL SECURITY & DEFENSE COUNCIL " OF UKRAINE*
*Leader of neo-Nazi Right Sector*
Anti-Russian, anti-Semite, fighting for a "pure Ukraine. 

*OLEH TYAHNIBOK - REPRESENTATIVE TO THE VERKHOVNA RADA (SUPREME COUNCIL/PARLIAMENT) OF UKRAINE*
*Leader of neo-Nazi Svoboda Party* which is active in forming Rada legislation.

*NATIONAL GUARD*:
The "National Guard" was created to replace the Ukrainian Army, because Ukrainian soldiers were refusing to shoot their fellow countrymen. The "Guard" has been filled with Right Sector and Svoboda members who are predominantly Western Ukrainians who fought as shock troops during the Maidan insurgency. They have been armed with heavy weapons and are being sent to the east and south where they kill without hesitation - including unarmed civilians.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

ДЕНЬ ПОБЕДЫ









*СВЯЩЕННАЯ ВОЙНА / HOLY WAR* 






*VICTORY DAY CELEBRATED IN BESEIGED LUGANSK, UKRAINE*







[/URL][/IMG]


*КАТЮША / KATYUSHA*






*DEFENDERS OF DONETSK REPUBLIC MARK V-DAY IN DONETSK, UKRAINE*







[/URL][/IMG]

*РОЗПРЯГАЙТЕ, ХЛОПЦi, КОНЕЙ*






*VICTORY DAY CELEBRATIONS IN CRIMEA, RUSSIA*







[/URL][/IMG]

*КАКИМ ТЫ БЫЛ... / AS YOU WERE...*






*VICTORY DAY IN EMBATTLED SLAVYANSK, UKRAINE*


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

deepelemblues said:


> Nazis are running Kiev honestly all you can do is laugh in the face of shit like that.
> the kiev government is dominated and controlled by a bunch of squishy technocrats of the kind that you'll find all over europe particularly in the EU bureaucracy.


*THE KIEV JUNTA HASN'T GOT ANYWHERE NEAR CONTROL OF THE COUNTRY AND THEY ARE STILL BRAZEN ENOUGH TO HAVE THEIR GOVERNORS PRAISING HITLER ON VICTORY DAY. THESE PEOPLE ARE NAZIS AND WASHINGTON AND BRUSSELS BACK THEM!*

Kherson governor calls Hitler 'liberator' addressing veterans on Victory Day


Published time: May 10, 2014 03:37 






Addressing the public on Victory Day, the governor of Ukraine’s southern Kherson region trampled on the feelings of many veterans and desecrated the memory of all those who perished during the war against Nazi Germany by calling Hitler a “liberator.”

*Governor of Kherson region Yuri Odarchenko was booed by thousands including WWII veterans when he told the previously cheering crowd that the Soviet Union tried to enslave Ukraine, while Hitler on the other hand tried to bring freedom to their land*. 

“Those [Soviet] aggressors justified their capture not only by their desire to seize others' territory and enslave the people, but they also put forward slogans about liberating nations and people that inhabit the lands which Hitler hoped to capture,” Odarchenko told the crowd. 

Painting his version of the events further, he challenged history by saying that “if you read history books, we have a number of documentaries on this, then we see that he [Hitler] first of all put forward a slogan of liberating people from the communist yoke, and liberating people from the tyrant Stalin,” Odarchenko said, sparking anger and outrage by the crowd. 

*As thousands yelled out “shame”, a young woman with a child approached the governor, stripped him of the microphone, before throwing it away*. 

Historians, citing data available from Second Secretary of the Regional Committee of the Communist Party of Ukraine, shows that *Nazi forces in Kherson region killed 72,130 citizens and shipped about 40,000 to Germany to work in labour camps,* while Germans ruled a crucial port on the Black Sea and Dnieper River from August 21, 1941 to March 13, 1944. *Other historians place the figures IN Kherson region at 105,000 Soviet citizens killed and more than 60,000 sent to Germany as slave labor*. 

As far as Hitler's vision of liberty and justice for the people of Ukraine, there are those among the veterans who still remember what Nazi reign in Kherson was all about. Many witness accounts of the Nazi's actions were written down in history books. 

“*All those arrived were stripped naked and led to the trench,” eyewitness A. K. Mestkovsky recalled in V. Baraniuk’s historic study of Hitler’s ‘liberation’ of Soviet ‘sub-humans’ in Kherson region. “The adult women and the elderly were stripped to their underwear, placed by the trench on their knees, and shot by the machine guns.” 
*
*In the autumn of 1941, about 10,000 Jews were killed in the city of Kherson alone*. It is estimated that at least 47,000 Red Army soldiers died while force-crossing the Dnieper as they tried to liberate the city from the Nazis. 

The Kherson governor offended the veterans on their most important holiday, Russia's deputy Prime Minister, Dmitry Rogozin, said in his twitter post, *calling him a “bastard*.”


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable.

-JFK.


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## Spanish Lariato (Jul 26, 2011)

The Manowarrior said:


> Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable.
> 
> -JFK.


If you think that a coup d'etat leaded by nazis and puppets of the EU is a revolution I have some bad news. 
And lel at Kennedy.

Edit: Although it was yesterday I want to thank the Soviets in the name of my country for liberating the world. Also it is necessary to remember that the only countries thst helped Spain in the war against fascism was Mexico and expecially the USSR with countries like USA supplying fuel to Franco's troops or UK and France preventing the armament sent to us to arrive. Moreover it was Stalin the only leader after the IIWW that want to free Spain from the yolk of fascism.


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable.
> 
> -JFK.


Welcome to the Eastern European thread where if you don't agree with Batko you're an anti Russian Nazi who should realize Belarus is the greatest country on earth & every other country is run by capitalist fascists that happen to have a phobia of Russian people 



Spanish Lariato said:


> If you think that a coup d'etat leaded by nazis and puppets of the EU is a revolution I have some bad news.
> And lel at Kennedy.
> 
> Russia annexing Ukraine is all part of a EU conspiracy? Mmmkay


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Al Borland said:


> Welcome to the Eastern European thread where if you don't agree with Batko you're an anti Russian Nazi who should realize Belarus is the greatest country on earth & every other country is run by capitalist fascists that happen to have a phobia of Russian people
> 
> Russia annexing Ukraine is all part of a EU conspiracy? Mmmkay


There is a worldwide conspiracy where everyone is either Russian, or against it and wants to destroy it. Everybody who is not for Russia, is a nazi, fascist and terrorist.


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## Spanish Lariato (Jul 26, 2011)

Al Borland said:


> Spanish Lariato said:
> 
> 
> > If you think that a coup d'etat leaded by nazis and puppets of the EU is a revolution I have some bad news.
> ...



An hystorically Russian region who votes to rejoin Russia on the sight of a Nazi Junta that is now ruling the country and hate russian people seems pretty reasonable to me.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

As usual, the KPRF held it's own "unofficial" Victory Day march and meeting in Moscow. I wasn't going to post anything on it until I saw the reenactment of the 1945 ceremony of tossing the Nazi flags and banners to the ground on Red Square. The difference yesterday was that the flags being tossed to the ground in the reenactment of the ceremony were *NATO and UNITED STATES FLAGS*.

*I believe this reenactment pretty much sums up how people feel about NATO and the United States in Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, and, especially eastern and southern Ukraine!!! *

*NAZI GERMAN FLAGS & BANNERS IN MOSCOW, MAY 9, 1945*










*NATO & U.S. FLAGS IN MOSCOW, MAY 9, 2014* 







[/URL][/IMG]








[/URL][/IMG]








[/URL][/IMG]








[/URL][/IMG]








[/URL][/IMG]








[/URL][/IMG]


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## MikeTO (May 17, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> There is a worldwide conspiracy where everyone is either Russian, or against it and wants to destroy it. Everybody who is not for Russia, is a nazi, fascist and terrorist.


Speaking of conspiracies, yesterday I heard som crazy one (about things between Russia and Ukraine) involving Jews... I would post it here for lulzies but I rather won´t...


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> As usual, the KPRF held it's own "unofficial" Victory Day march and meeting in Moscow. I wasn't going to post anything on it until I saw the reenactment of the 1945 ceremony of tossing the Nazi flags and banners to the ground on Red Square. The difference yesterday was that the flags being tossed to the ground in the reenactment of the ceremony were *NATO and UNITED STATES FLAGS*.
> 
> *I believe this reenactment pretty much sums up how people feel about NATO and the United States in Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, and, especially eastern and southern Ukraine!!! *
> 
> ...


Not Russians = nazis, apparently fpalm


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

On to another topic, will anyone watch Eurovision today? The voting should be more interesting this year. Surprisingly, Russia made it to the final. So did Ukraine.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Not Russians = nazis, apparently fpalm


*SUPPORT NEO-NAZI KIEV JUNTA = NAZI SYMPATHIZER, APPARENTLY* :agree:


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

MikeTO said:


> Speaking of conspiracies, yesterday I heard som crazy one (about things between Russia and Ukraine) involving Jews... I would post it here for lulzies but I rather won´t...


Stormfront?



The Manowarrior said:


> On to another topic, will anyone watch Eurovision today? The voting should be more interesting this year. Surprisingly, Russia made it to the final. So did Ukraine.


I liked a total of 3 songs Iceland, Switzerland & France lol


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> There is a worldwide conspiracy where everyone is either Russian, or against it and wants to destroy it. Everybody who is not for Russia, is a nazi, fascist and terrorist.


The movement against Russia is *NOT* worldwide - it is confined to the United States, EU, and NATO. That may be the whole world to you, but comprises only about 25% of it in actuality. And U.S./NATO expansion and aggression over the last two decades would seem to indicate you are correct - they want to control Russia, if not destroy it.

If you support neo-Nazi organizations, governments, etc. then it is apparent that you are either a neo-Nazi or a sympathizer of the neo-Nazi movement. 

You keep denying that you are a Russophobe and a Nazi sympathizer, yet I haven't heard one peep out of you blasting the pro-Nazi speech of the Kherson Region governor. All we get from you is smoke trying to cover up and take attention away from the neo-Nazi agenda of Kiev junta and the aggression of NATO and the U.S.

- Mike


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## MikeTO (May 17, 2013)

Al Borland said:


> Stormfront?


Nope. It was one guy I know who told me his theory.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> You keep denying that you are a Russophobe and a Nazi sympathizer


fpalm I am speechless. Just speechless.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Al Borland said:


> I liked a total of 3 songs Iceland, Switzerland & France lol


Iceland is pretty good. Finland song this year is my absolute favorite. I really love it. These are the only two songs I like this year.


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

The Manowarrior said:


> Iceland is pretty good. Finland song this year is my absolute favorite. I really love it. These are the only two songs I like this year.


I think our song is fairly average this year. It's better than the ones we had the past couple of years but doesn't really stand out to me. But then again, this year none of the songs really do. I somewhat like the Austrian song, but I hate how they seem to be running on the power of the artist's beard instead of the actual song.

I just hope Poland doesn't win. Their song is quite catchy but if they do, other countries will start selling their songs with sex too and that will just ruin the competition to me. I like boobs but not necessarily in this kind of environment.


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## Spanish Lariato (Jul 26, 2011)

Never cease to amaze me the adherence that some Europeans experiment to Eurovision. Maybe it is the fact that is almost impossible to win for a western country or the generally low quality of the songs (probably not the reason) but the festival never quite take off in my country in recent times(and I guess the same goes to Italy since they withdrew of it long ago although I think they came back).


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

I really like the songs and artists, that don't take this seriously and try to make fun of its flaws. Like Dustin the Turkey from Ireland. Or Rambo Amadeus from Montenegro. And I laugh at those who take it very seriously and try very hard for it. The whole contest is a joke anyway.


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## Spanish Lariato (Jul 26, 2011)

We were experts in that:


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Spanish Lariato said:


> We were experts in that:


Loved it. UNO - el breikindance! DOS - el crusaito! TRES - el maiquelyason! QUATRO - el robocop!

I remember that, but I don't remember the winners of last 7 Eurovisions.


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## Spanish Lariato (Jul 26, 2011)

Well, tbh I only remember Lordi.


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## Boo Radley (May 21, 2011)

Looked forward to this year, the UK shouldn't finish bottom. Looks like Russia has rapidly overtaken us as the most hated country in Europe. Looking forward to the bearded transvestite from Austria. Russia are being their usually backward selves and wanting to edit that bit out because of their anti gay laws, I guess they have a short memory and have forgotten a few years ago that their act was a pedo erotic performance by two lesbian school girls.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Spanish Lariato said:


> Well, tbh I only remember Lordi.


That's the only one I remember too.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Funny story,

I actually ended up on a white supremacy news blog

one of the news category was Jewary (not sure on spelling as there is no way my spellcheck will find that)

As also, as a member of "The Anti-Russian Confederation of Conspiracy of Non-Disclosed Western Nations LLC." (or the ARCCNDWN)aka "The Happy Nazi Party Bus", I actually enjoyed TaTu


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Boo Radley said:


> Looked forward to this year, the UK shouldn't finish bottom. Looks like Russia has rapidly overtaken us as the most hated country in Europe. Looking forward to the bearded transvestite from Austria. Russia are being their usually backward selves and wanting to edit that bit out because of their anti gay laws, I guess they have a short memory and have forgotten a few years ago that their act was a pedo erotic performance by two lesbian school girls.


You're talking about TaTu, right? At least they were not that bad. I like them. And their sexuality was not their main selling point.


----------



## Boo Radley (May 21, 2011)

The Manowarrior said:


> You're talking about TaTu, right? At least they were not that bad. I like them. *And their sexuality was not their main selling point*.


No nothing even remotely sexual about their biggest hit which people only remember for the video :duck


----------



## elhijodelbodallas (Jan 30, 2014)

The Eurovision contest reminds me of the most recent King of the Ring tournaments. Completely lackluster but still trying to pretend to be relevant.


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Boo Radley said:


> No nothing even remotely sexual about their biggest hit which people only remember for the video :duck


I actually liked this song when I first heard it and haven't even seen the video. But yeah, I love the video.

And I was actually talking just about their Eurovision performance, comparing it to this year's Austria's performance.


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

And by the way, just to clear some things up, Austria's singer is NOT actually a transvestite. It's just an alter ego. A grad persona. Just like Goldust.


----------



## Boo Radley (May 21, 2011)

The Manowarrior said:


> I actually liked this song when I first heard it and haven't even seen the video. But yeah, I love the video.
> 
> And I was actually talking just about their Eurovision performance, comparing it to this year's Austria's performance.


And I was talking about Russia's hypocricy in trying to edit out Austria's performance because of their anti gay promotion laws while they entered an act in the same competition a few years ago which are most famous for selling lesbianism.



The Manowarrior said:


> And by the way, just to clear some things up, Austria's singer is NOT actually a transvestite. It's just an alter ego. A grad persona. Just like Goldust.


Ok then, a transvestite act, if you want to nit pick.


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Boo Radley said:


> And I was talking about Russia's hypocricy in trying to edit out Austria's performance because of their anti gay promotion laws while they entered an act in the same competition a few years ago which are most famous for selling lesbianism.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok then, a transvestite act, if you want to nit pick.


I get it and I was just pointing out that.


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

Wonder how much the Ukraine stuff is gonna effect the eastern block voting. 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## Boo Radley (May 21, 2011)

I'd disappointed that I wont be able to do my "they think it's Moldova, it is now!" joke this year.


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

10 May 2014, 21:15

Kiev Junta denies entry to Russian Orthodox Church bishop, declares him persona non grata










*Metropolitan Hilarion of Volokolamsk, chairman of the Moscow Patriarchate’s Department for External Church Relations, was denied entry to Ukraine and had to return home, being told he is persona non grata*.


*The metropolitan headed to Ukraine’s Dnepropetrovsk to take part in the celebrations marking the 75th birthday of the Metropolitan of Dnetropetrovsk.
*
The Ukrainian authorities stopped the Russian metropolitan at Dnepropetrovsk’s airport, giving him a written notice prohibiting him from entering Ukraine. No explanations were provided.

"Metropolitan Hilarion arrived at Dnepropetrovsk’s airport on May 9 to attend celebrations for the jubilee of the honorable hierarch of the Russian Orthodox Church. He was stopped on passport control. After a long wait, the chairman of the Department for External Church Relations was provided with an official written notice that he was prohibited from entering Ukraine, without stating any reason for such prohibition," the Department for External Church Relations said, TASS reports.

Since Hilarion could not enter Ukraine, he conveyed Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and All Russia’s congratulations to Metropolitan Irinei of Dnepropetrovsk at the airport and gave him the Order of St. Prince Daniil of Moscow. The hierarchs exchanged messages, after which Hilarion left for Moscow last night.
Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_...h-representative-forces-him-to-fly-back-8215/


----------



## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

The Manowarrior said:


> I actually liked this song when I first heard it and haven't even seen the video. But yeah, I love the video.
> 
> And I was actually talking just about their Eurovision performance, comparing it to this year's Austria's performance.


What was the one where they filled the stage with teen girls making out with each other in their underwear?

That seemed like it was supposed to be "controversial" but (at least in the US) everything was so "crash tv" that no one really said much


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Another Eurovision, another disappointment. Why do I keep watching it every year?


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

Gutted for the Dutch.

Thought they deserved it. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## Boo Radley (May 21, 2011)

France was by far the best, how the fuck did they finish bottom with 2 points? Mustache dance!


----------



## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Never forget


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Putin _needs_ and _will get_ eastern Ukraine or else the Crimea has no fresh water supply.


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

You know, this thread is not that bad when we're not discussing politics and war.


----------



## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Yoy know, this thread is not that bad when we're not discussing politics and war.


Could that be the motto from now on? Less chit about war more stuff about other happenings in Eastern Europe


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Al Borland said:


> Could that be the motto from now on? Less chit about war more stuff about other happenings in Eastern Europe


Yeah. To others who read this thread it may look that it is the only thing happening in the region.


----------



## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

The Manowarrior said:


> You know, this thread is not that bad when we're not discussing politics and war.


I couldn't agree more. This thread became much more enjoyable to read yesterday.


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko, nobody likes to read a thread with 5 in a row news posts reposted from RT talking about the same thing. And the Ukraine situation is not the only thing going on in Europe. So either try not to do that or create your own thread and post there for people who might want to read that.


----------



## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

The Russian Premier League title is still up for grabs with Zenit,Lokomotiv & CSKA still in contention

Shakhtar have wrapped up the UPL seeing how they can only lose the title on goal difference even if they lose their next 2 games

Tavriya have indicated they want to join the Russian league next season, Sevastopol are undecided but what will become of Shakhtar?


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Al Borland said:


> The Russian Premier League title is still up for grabs with Zenit,Lokomotiv & CSKA still in contention
> 
> Shakhtar have wrapped up the UPL seeing how they can only lose the title on goal difference even if they lose their next 2 games
> 
> Tavriya have indicated they want to join the Russian league next season, Sevastopol are undecided but what will become of Shakhtar?


:clap This is a really interesting topic, as I'm a huge football fan. Interesting situation for Shakhtar. If they join Russian league, It would be very interesting to watch, but we'd lose the Ukrainian derby.


----------



## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> :clap This is a really interesting topic, as I'm a huge football fan. Interesting situation for Shakhtar. If they join Russian league, It would be very interesting to watch, but we'd lose the Ukrainian derby.


How good would it be for AVB coming off his failures in England to win a title potentially undefeated

Who do you support apart from Inter?


----------



## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

They're going to vote yes on independence. Then Ukraine will crush it and they'll ask for Russian assistance. If Russia says no, they've blinked. If they say yes and NATO do noting, NATO has blinked.


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Al Borland said:


> How good would it be for AVB coming off his failures in England to win a title potentially undefeated
> 
> Who do you support apart from Inter?


London Chelsea, Spartak Moscow, Liverpool. Some other clubs. Used to like Bayern Munich until it became Barca V2.0.


----------



## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

Mindset of a western simpleton: When they vote for independence, with our backing from our plutocratic leaders, it's democracy and self determination. When they overthrow a government and throw the constitution in the shitter, that's democracy too. Anyone who disagrees is a conspiracy theorist.

If they vote for independence, declaring their loyalty to Russia, it's rigged.


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Al Borland said:


> How good would it be for AVB coming off his failures in England to win a title potentially undefeated
> 
> Who do you support apart from Inter?


What teams besides Zenit do you like?


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Batko, nobody likes to read a thread with 5 in a row news posts reposted from RT talking about the same thing. And the Ukraine situation is not the only thing going on in Europe. So either try not to do that or create your own thread and post there for people who might want to read that.


Good morning, Tomas! Apparently, you're incorrect in your assumptions. From what I can see, your Eastern Europe thread is the* MOST* popular of *ANY* thread on the Wrestling Forums with over *33,000* people following it! I can assure you it didn't garner that many readers with inane posts about the ludicrous "Eurovision" competition.

It's understandable why you and your cronies want to play down events in Ukraine and keep a lid on the true nature of the insurgency and its agenda. *Your creation is revealing the truth that you and your pals don't like!* 

Yes, Ukraine is not the only news out there, *but it is by far the most important news in Europe today*. To a few people it may be important to determine if such and such a performer on Eurovision is a transvestite or not. However, to the vast majority of people the death, destruction, and denial of human rights caused by the neo-fascist regime in Kiev is much more important news.

*In any case, Tomas, congratulations on creating the most popular thread on Wrestling Forums!*

- Mike


----------



## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

It should be interesting to see if Rubin Kazan can keep Roman Eremenko for next season. They managed to do that last year but with their disappointing season he might be leaving for a bigger league. I read Fiorentina might be interested in him.


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Lugansk and Donetsk regions vote for self-determination

Published time: May 11, 2014 05:02 

*VOTERS PACK OVER 1,500 POLLING STATIONS SET UP IN DONETSK REGION AND OVER 1,400 POLLING STATIONS IN LUGANSK REGION*










The referendum is in full swing in Ukraine's Donetsk and Lugansk regions, seeking independence from the central government. Local self-defense forces boosted security, fearing that Kiev could stage provocations to disrupt the self-determination vote. 

More than fifty percent of voters in the Donetsk region have already cast their ballots, according to the head of the Central Election Commission of the self-proclaimed “Donetsk People’s Republic,” Roman Lyagin. He added, that *the referendum results could be made public Monday afternoon*. 

“*The turnout is not just high, it’s off the charts,” *Lyagin said. “People are queuing up at polling stations, and election commissions are working at full capacity.” 








[/URL][/IMG]

*The referendum turnout in the Lugansk region has already reached 65 percent*, according to the chairman of the local referendum committee, Aleksandr Malykhin. 

*In Mariupol, recovering from Friday's deadly clashes, only eight polling stations have been opened*, according to the coordinator of the central election commission of the “Donetsk People’s Republic”, Boris Litvinov. *Those willing to vote have to wait for their turn in huge queues*. 

*Almost simultaneously with the opening of polling stations, sounds of shooting and artillery fire were heard on the outskirts of Slavyansk, in southeast Ukraine’s Donetsk region*. 

Activists in Slavyansk described the attacks to RT by phone. 

“The artillery fire was so loud, that the earth and houses shook,” said one man, who only gave his first name, Vlad. “I have been trying to call the people at the checkpoint but they don’t pick up. There are snipers in the area and it’s too dangerous to speak on the phone.” 

Slavyansk already witnessed mortar shelling of its outskirts by Ukrainian forces on the eve of the referendum. In the embattled city the stations will close at 15:00 GMT for security reasons.








[/URL][/IMG] 

*Some 1,471 polling stations in Lugansk region and around 1,500 in Donetsk region opened their doors for voters at 8:00 local time *(5:00 GMT) and will close at 22:00 (19:00 GMT). Security has been tightened around them. 

“*We sent additional self-defense units to polling stations and also to the most important social institutions,”* a Lugansk self-defense leader, Aleksey Chmilenko, told Interfax. “*So far everything is normal, there are no incidents*.” 

RT’s Paula Slier, currently in Donetsk, reports that Roman Lyagin, chair of the central election commission in the region, believes that a provocation has been planned and says that anti-government activists are ready for it. 

The people’s governor of the Donetsk region, Pavel Gubarev, told journalists that* Donetsk and Lugansk will emerge as new legal entities as a result of the referendum*. 

“The referendum for us is about creating a new state paradigm,” he said. 

Ukraine’s Foreign Ministry says the results of the referendum in Donetsk and Lugansk regions won’t affect the country’s territorial integrity and form of government. 

“Organizers of this criminal farce have consciously violated the Ukrainian constitution and laws, and have neglected calls coming from the authorities in Ukraine and from the international community,” the ministry’s statement reads. 








[/URL][/IMG]

Citizens of the two southeastern regions of Ukraine are being asked if they “support the Act of state self-rule” of Donetsk People's Republic or Lugansk People's Republic. *The election commission officials explained that the people are not choosing between staying within Ukraine and joining Russia, as widely reported, but instead are asked to support regions’ right for political self-determination. 
*
*Over 3 million ballot papers were printed for Donetsk region*. All in all, the organizers spent about 20,000 hryvnas (US$ 2,000) preparing for the vote in Ukraine’s industrial region, the heart of the country’s coal-mining. “The referendum will be considered valid whatever voter turnout will be,” Roman Lyagin, the head Donetsk election commission told reporters on Saturday. 

*In Donetsk, western observers are not present at the polling stations*, commission officials said, as *nobody expressed willingness to oversee the vote in the turbulent region*. “We did not refuse anyone, there were no applications,” Lyagin said, adding though that over 470 international journalists are accredited in Donetsk. 

*Some 30 international observers are monitoring the voting in Lugansk region, where some 1.8 million are expected to take part in the referendum.* “According to a survey, 83% of Lugansk residents are ready to support the Act of state self-rule of the People’s Republic of Lugansk,” said Igor Shakhov, the head of the local election commission. 

Security measures have been increased on the day of the historic vote with self-defense units in both regions preparing to thwart any attempt by Kiev’s military and paramilitary forces to disrupt the vote and prevent provocations by radicals at the polling stations. 

The referendums, announced back in March, are going ahead as planned despite Russian President Putin’s call on pro-federalization activists to postpone them due to the deteriorating and unpredictable security situation in Ukraine. 

The Kiev government as well as many western countries, including the US, France and Germany are calling the referendums “illegal” and urge dialogue between all conflicting parties in Ukraine, at the same time showing no readiness to stop the punitive military operation in the east of the country. 

*If a majority of voters answer “yes” on Sunday the regions will gain full moral right to officially state they do not accept what is happening in the country*, anti-coup protesters say. *The combined population of Donetsk and Lugansk industrial regions, rejecting the legitimacy of the coup-installed Kiev authorities, stands at about 7 million in a country of 45 million*.


----------



## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> What teams besides Zenit do you like?


Edmonton here in Canada, I like to keep up with Partizan results in Serbia & Montpellier in France. I like watching most European leagues I can enjoy matches from Bayern Munich kicking it with Dortmund to the less glamorous matches of the lower leagues 



Batko10 said:


> Good morning, Tomas! Apparently, you're incorrect in your assumptions. From what I can see, your Eastern Europe thread is the* MOST* popular of *ANY* thread on the Wrestling Forums with over *33,000* people following it! I can assure you it didn't garner that many readers with inane posts about the ludicrous "Eurovision" competition.
> 
> It's understandable why you and your cronies want to play down events in Ukraine and keep a lid on the true nature of the insurgency and its agenda. *Your creation is revealing the truth that you and your pals don't like!*
> 
> ...


Blah blah blah yada yada yada shut the fuck up no more war talk here either make a new thread dedicated to it or change topics



Allur said:


> It should be interesting to see if Rubin Kazan can keep Roman Eremenko for next season. They managed to do that last year but with their disappointing season he might be leaving for a bigger league. I read Fiorentina might be interested in him.


With Fiorentina having an awesome season this time around it looks likely, I guess he'd want to prove himself in Italy after his short stint in Udine

On an unrelated note Zenit may have "Done a Liverpool" after losing 4-2 to Dinamo today. Fans invaded the pitch & a Moscow player was struck


----------



## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Zenit Statement

We expresses our deep regret concerning the incidents that happened in Zenit`s match vs. Dynamo Moscow in the 29th round of the SOGAZ Russian Premier League today, leading to the match being abandoned.

Besides the match itself being stopped due to fan aggression, the most shameful episode came from aggressive fan behavior towards the players of the opposing team. We understand that the fans had the right to be disappointed and discouraged by the team`s play in such an important match, but hooliganism and riots are never allowed no matter what the case. Such fan behavior has an enormous negative influence on the reputation of the club, its players, and all of the many millions of Zenit fans.

Unfortunately, this is not the first time that fan groups have caused damage to Zenit`s reputation. This forces the club to change its approach to further interaction with such fan groups.

We are also extremely concerned about the health of Dynamo Moscow player Vladimir Granat, and wish him a quick recovery. Presently, the police and the club are working to establish the identity of the assailant. Materials have already been prepared for a criminal investigation.

We apologize to all of the players and fans.


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Al Borland said:


> Blah blah blah yada yada yada shut the fuck up no more war talk here either make a new thread dedicated to it or change topics
> ]


Don't get testy, Al! I understand that the side you support in Ukraine has been revealed for what it is and this upsets you. However, I will continue to post relevant news on Ukraine as it comes up. :agree: 

*And to Tomas*, I was *NOT* being facitious at all when I congratulated you on having the most popular thread on Wrestling Forums. That is quite an accomplishment! Think about it - there are *over 33,000 *people following your thread. 

People have been getting relevant, important news here. And, I'm sure that they are enjoying the mini-flame wars that have erupted. If you try to bury this thread in ludicrous crap that no one really cares about people will simply stop following it and it will go to the dust bin.

But, don't worry! I will do my best to keep this thread relevant and interesting by reporting on what the West doesn't want you to know about Ukraine and the Kiev junta.

- Mike


----------



## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> Don't get testy, Al! I understand that the side you support in Ukraine has been revealed for what it is and this upsets you. However, I will continue to post relevant news on Ukraine as it comes up. :agree:
> 
> *And to Tomas*, I was *NOT* being facitious at all when I congratulated you on having the most popular thread on Wrestling Forums. That is quite an accomplishment! Think about it - there are *over 33,000 *people following your thread.
> 
> ...


In the end it's just a thread on a wrestling forum. I don't think anyone would lose their night sleep if that was to happen.


----------



## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Batko10 said:


> Don't get testy, Al! I understand that the side you support in Ukraine has been revealed for what it is and this upsets you. However, I will continue to post relevant news on Ukraine as it comes up. :agree:
> 
> *And to Tomas*, I was *NOT* being facitious at all when I congratulated you on having the most popular thread on Wrestling Forums. That is quite an accomplishment! Think about it - there are *over 33,000 *people following your thread.
> 
> ...


It's a fake fighting forum.. primarily to discuss the aesthetics of men pretending to hit each other & lay on top of each other for 3 seconds.. just let that sink in


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Al Borland said:


> It's a fake fighting forum.. primarily to discuss the aesthetics of men pretending to hit each other & lay on top of each other for 3 seconds.. just let that sink in


And we all are/were fans of those men...


----------



## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> And we all are/were fans of those men...


I do realize that I just pointed that out to Batko cause he thinks he's addressing Congress with his posts when his audience most likely consists of neckbeard marks behind a computer


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> In the end it's just a thread on a wrestling forum. I don't think anyone would lose their night sleep if that was to happen.


I disagree. Tomas' thread has elevated the "Anything Forum" from just another banal section of a "wrestling forum" to one that actually imparts information and sparks legitimate controversy, not the contrived stuff you normally see here. 

While Ukraine posts have dominated the thread since late in February, those posts were chock full of news, opinions, and heated debates. I can understand why Al and a few others would want to turn the thread into a boring collection of inane posts and see it die. 

However, anyone following the thread can be assured that I will continue to post relevant articles on the dire situation in Ukraine. I have no problem posting a few less articles to appease the small number of complainants. However, the relevant information that the U.S. and NATO doesn't want to get out will be posted!

- Mike


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Al Borland said:


> I do realize that I just pointed that out to Batko cause he thinks he's addressing Congress with his posts when his audience most likely consists of neckbeard marks behind a computer


I have no interest in addressing the Congress. Those people already know the truth about Ukraine and are doing their best to hide it from the public. 

If my audience consists of young people all the better. They are the ones that need to hear the truth and balance that against the lies coming out of "Congress," i.e. the politicians in Washington, and the western media.

I will gladly continue addressing the "neckbeard marks" on the list if they want the information.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

I didn't really notice it before, but now you DO sound like a paranoid conspiracy theorist, Mike.


----------



## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

umm

Following and views are different things

This thread has only like 6 active posters several of with just say the same thing over and over or post news from various places

While the thread is active there is no real discussion going on and most people who may of wanted to post here see this as yet another "political bullshit" thread which is pretty much just people calling each other evil and stupid

I cant say this is a successful thread when 95% of it was news boting or blog style rants


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> I didn't really notice it before, but now you DO sound like a paranoid conspiracy theorist, Mike.


No, I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I live here and am just very familiar with the bi-partisan support in Washington for U.S. worldwide aggression and expansion. Just as two quick examples, the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan took place under Republican Bush, while the bombings of Yugoslavia and Libya were undertaken by Clinton and Obama of the Democratic Party.

There is also a bi-partisan policy of hate for Russia (I won't use the term "Russophobia") and disdain for Eastern Slavs in general. The military buildup of Georgia which led to the Georgian invasion of South Ossetia and conflict with Russia spanned a decade and a half under both Democratic and Republican leadership. Multiple futile attempts at regime change in Belarus also spanned the last 15 years and both U.S. political parties. The U.S. missile shield is also a bi-partisan effort.

No, Tomas, I don't see conspiracies, I see flat out U.S. governmental policies that target anyone or anything that is perceived as being against the agenda of creating a U.S. hegemony that controls the world economy.

- Mike


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## Spanish Lariato (Jul 26, 2011)

There is really no conspiracy. You have a government who served the dominant class that also is the one who finances the parties that are rotating in the parliament. And then you have the media whose owners are said dominant class. That's pretty clear and ascertainable.
So it's natural that the media lie about the conflicts in order to help to create an enviroment that makes an intervention plausible for the government.
It's really imperialism 101, you have the NATO forces who since the demolition of the majority of the Socialist Bloc have been pursuing the control over the European eastern region (they didn't even retire his missiles on European soil as promised) and the only strong opposition left is Russia who is also capitalist but belong to a different imperialist bloc.
So if they finally suceed in transform Eastern Europe in a subsidiary of the NATO countries the dominant class (Financial and Grand Bourgeoisie) will recieve succulent profits that would make the whole thing worthwhile no matter the death toll.


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

stevefox1200 said:


> umm
> Following and views are different things


There is no way that I am familiar with to actually determine who is actively following any thread on these forums. When someone "*views*" any thread for the *FIRST TIME* that "*view*" is recorded. Future "*views*" are *NOT* recorded.

That means that as of today *33,624* *individual list members *viewed this thread *at least once*. It's impossible to say if they came back to view it in the future, but that is a heck of alot of people who have checked out Tomas' thread.

Unless a MOD can suggest some way to determine how many people "*follow*" the thread, "*views*" are the only criterion that we have to determine a threads popularity. Excluding "stickies," I don't think any other thread in the non-wrestling sections comes close to Tomas' Eastern Europe Discussion Thread.




stevefox1200 said:


> umm
> This thread has only like 6 active posters several of with just say the same thing over and over or post news from various places
> 
> While the thread is active there is no real discussion going on and most people who may of wanted to post here see this as yet another "political bullshit" thread which is pretty much just people calling each other evil and stupid
> ...


The number of active posters is irrelevant in judging the success of a thread. The number of people who are reading and following the thread is the indicator of its success. Based on that criterion, this thread is one of the most successful.

There is a mixture of discussion, articles/data, and flaming going on here that, apparently, appeals to over 33,000 list members.

- Mike


----------



## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Batko10 said:


> There is no way that I am familiar with to actually determine who is actively following any thread on these forums. When someone "*views*" any thread for the *FIRST TIME* that "*view*" is recorded. Future "*views*" are *NOT* recorded.
> 
> That means that as of today *33,624* *individual list members *viewed this thread *at least once*. It's impossible to say if they came back to view it in the future, but that is a heck of alot of people who have checked out Tomas' thread.
> 
> ...


People don't always click on a thread that interests them, I know if I see a thread that's long as shit with a broad topic I see what is going on 

I have seen threads with tons of view that are like 7 pages of 2 people going back and forth with minutes between each posting

This thread has been open for awhile and is bumped with news boting, there times where nothing but news stories (that don't say much other than Ukraine is still a thing) with nothing else has been posted days at a time

If it didn't have a bunch of view I would be surprised


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Well, it looks like the referendum went off quite smoothly despite the Kiev junta sending in the Right Sector's "National Guard" to Slavyansk and Marupol to disrupt the referendum by shooting down civilian voters and forcibly closing polling locations.

The voter turnout was *81% in Lugansk Region *and *74.87% in the Donetsk Region*. Whatever side you are on you have to admit that the people had courage to go out and vote despite threats and actually physical violence by Right Sector in the cities mentioned in the above paragraph.

The votes will be counted into tomorrow, but preliminary results show *89.7%* in favor of secession in Donetsk Region and around *95%* in favor of breaking away from Ukraine in Lugansk Region.

The Kiev junta's use of Right Sector thugs in the "National Guard" to do what the Ukrainian Army refuses to do is going to backfire on them. After seeing and experiencing the violence perpetrated by the "National Guard," even people who would have voted to stay in Ukraine are voting to get out.

- Mike


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

For those who were unaware, today is Belarus' *FLAG & COAT OF ARMS DAY*.

The present day National Flag and Coat of Arms were chosen by the Byelorussian people in a referendum in 1994.


*STATE FLAG OF THE REPUBLIC OF BELARUS*










*COAT OF ARMS OF THE REPUBLIC OF BELARUS*


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

In regards to Ukraine, it feels like a referendum masquerading as an annexation. There is no denying Putin's influence in the events transpiring in eastern Ukraine over the last month or so. Politically, he has been adept here, I have to give him that.


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> In regards to Ukraine, it feels like a referendum masquerading as an annexation. There is no denying Putin's influence in the events transpiring in eastern Ukraine over the last month or so. Politically, he has been adept here, I have to give him that.


Regardless of Putin's "influence," you can't deny that hundreds of thousands of people in Donetsk Region and Lugansk Region stood up to the violence and intimidation employed by the Kiev junta through the Right Sector forces. Some were shot down and died while attempting to vote and exercise their right of self-determination as human beings.

The most pathetic part of this is the West and the Kiev junta calling the referendum "illegal." That's like the pot calling the kettle black. Like the violent overthrow of the elected government and Ukrainian Constitution by the present junta was legal!?!

- Mike


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> Like the violent overthrow of the elected government and Ukrainian Constitution by the present junta was legal!?!


Coups are intrinsically illegal in nature, as they discard constitutional law, so that comparison sort of wears thin, but yes, I get where you're coming from. Self-determination is at the epicentre of the tenets of democracy. Its legitimacy is the matter of talking point here.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

They did this 'refferendum' thing back in World War II with Lithuania. Only in that case, absolutely no one wanted to be a part of Soviet Union.


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Fuck it not gonna post in here anymore if all the posts are gonna be from Russia Today on Juntas & shit


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

The Manowarrior said:


> They did this 'refferendum' thing back in World War II with Lithuania. Only in that case, absolutely no one wanted to be a part of Soviet Union.


That's a good point. However, I don't think present-day Russia has the same tyrannical and expansionist tendencies that USSR did, and patriotism has surged in Russia ever since Putin walked into power. Hence, it comes as no surprise that eastern Ukraine, with large ethnic Russian populations, legitimately want to strengthen ties with Putin's state.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Al Borland said:


> Fuck it not gonna post in here anymore if all the posts are gonna be from Russia Today on Juntas & shit


Only one can take so much Russia Today before it becomes irksome. I feel sorry for those who confine all of their readings to a state-funded network. They are quite the definition of a 'sheep'.


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Despot said:


> Only one can take so much Russia Today before it becomes irksome. I feel sorry for those who confine all of their readings to a state-funded network. They are quite the definition of a 'sheep'.


This whole thread is irksome blah blah blah Junta, Something about Belarus, Yada yada yada YOU FASCIST RUSSOPHOBE!! DON'T YOU REALIZE ALL OTHER COUNTRIES ARE INFERIOR TO RUSSIA!!11111 

Why bother posting about other things when it just gets covered by that shit


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Some people just don't get it. When they're out of arguments, they start name calling. Batko called me a nazi, a fascist, whatever on numerous occasions. When I ask him to back up his claims, he just ignores my question and goes on mindlessly reposting RT news articles and calls it a discussion. If he continues to do that, I may have to take actions.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Al Borland said:


> This whole thread is irksome blah blah blah Junta, Something about Belarus, Yada yada yada YOU FASCIST RUSSOPHOBE!! DON'T YOU REALIZE ALL OTHER COUNTRIES ARE INFERIOR TO RUSSIA!!11111
> 
> Why bother posting about other things when it just gets covered by that shit


You don't like RT articles so I didn't post them. I posted the breaking news in my own words based on reading RT, UA, and BBC reports. The western sources glossed over the shooting of civilians during the referendum. RT went into it in depth. I just summarized the information I read and kept it short.

You weren't happy!

I changed the subject from Ukraine and posted briefly, in my own words and finding my own photos, about Belarus' holiday on March 11th celebrating its national symbols.

You weren't happy!

Perhaps, you shouldn't post or read this thread. It is titled "Eastern Europe Discussion Thread." Ukraine is numero uno news not only in Eastern Europe, but worldwide. Belarus is in Eastern Europe and celebrated one of its holidays yesterday. 

Please, feel free to discuss anything pertinent to Eastern Europe that is of interest to you. If you want to talk about Eurovision or football games that's up to you as long as its related to the topic. 

Otherwise, don't criticize me just because you're pissed off that I make it difficult for you to cover up what the Kiev junta and West are perpetrating in Ukraine.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> Only one can take so much Russia Today before it becomes irksome. I feel sorry for those who confine all of their readings to a state-funded network. They are quite the definition of a 'sheep'.


One can only take so much NY Times, BBC, CNN, Fox News, etc. before their uniform, lockstep reporting becomes irksome. Then one turns to other sources to get the other side of the story. 

I agree and as you, I feel sorry for those who confine their reading to one source - be it a state-funded network or private news media outlets fulfilling the agenda of the state. They most definitely are quite the definition of "sheep."

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> *Coups are intrinsically illegal in nature*, as they discard constitutional law, so that comparison sort of wears thin, but yes, I get where you're coming from. Self-determination is at the epicentre of the tenets of democracy. *Its legitimacy is the matter of talking point here*.


So, what right does the illegal government in Kiev have to call the referendum in Eastern Ukraine illegal??? 

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> So, what right does the illegal government in Kiev have to call the referendum in Eastern Ukraine illegal???
> 
> - Mike


It does not change the fact that the referendum is illegal. Even if the government is illegal too. If a man just came into the bank and robbed it, it would be illegal. But not in Ukraine, since if the government is illegal, anyone can do anything that is illegal and it is perfectly justified, right?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> It does not change the fact that the referendum is illegal. Even if the government is illegal too. If a man just came into the bank and robbed it, it would be illegal. But not in Ukraine, since if the government is illegal, anyone can do anything that is illegal and it is perfectly justified, right?


I'm sorry, but that is the most absurd thing I've heard today. Granted, I just woke up recently and am having my coffee. There is a chance that I may hear something more asinine later in the day. Time will tell!

The regions of Ukraine were sworn to uphold the Ukrainian Constitution and work within the framework of the elected government. Once the Maidan insurgents forcibly overthrew that government, seized power, and trashed the Constitution the regions were no longer obligated to follow the dictates of the junta that arose.

Thus, the referendums in Donetsk Region and Lugansk Region are *NOT* illegal.

Your analogy about a bank robber is ridiculous. Committing robbery and other crimes that violate the penal code will remain illegal regardless of the political situation. 

However, shooting civilians who are trying to enter a polling area is a crime, whatever your opinion about the referendum. This is something that the Ukrainian Army refused to do and is being fulfilled by the Right Sector troops in the "National Guard."

- Mike


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

Good job NATO, for overthrowing the government of Ukraine. Russia thanks you.

Fucking idiots.


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

Batko10 said:


> I'm sorry, but that is the most absurd thing I've heard today. Granted, I just woke up recently and am having my coffee. There is a chance that I may hear something more asinine later in the day. Time will tell!
> 
> The regions of Ukraine were sworn to uphold the Ukrainian Constitution and work within the framework of the elected government. Once the Maidan insurgents forcibly overthrew that government, seized power, and trashed the Constitution the regions were no longer obligated to follow the dictates of the junta that arose.
> 
> ...


Oh yeah, nevermind the people who murdered the occupants of a house... SOME OTHER GUY IS NOW STEALING THEIR TV! GET HIM!!

This, folks, is why we have static plutocracy in the west. Because of easily influenced morons.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

roadkill_ said:


> Good job NATO, for overthrowing the government of Ukraine. Russia thanks you.
> 
> Fucking idiots.


:lol You are so right! They are fucking idiots.

When the dust settles Russia will have effective control over the industrialized east with its mines and factories, and the southern regions with their ports along the Black Sea Coast. The West will wind up feeding the fucking useless Western Ukraine and dealing with their psycho Nazis and right wing militias.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Speaking of Eastern Europe, presidential elections took place in Lithuania yesterday. It came off as a bit of shock to me, as I wasn't expecting it, but the results showed that a second round will be necessary. The current president, a conservative liberal, got around 47% votes, while the second place, a social democrat, got around 14%. I doubt that the president will change, but I really want it to.


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

Batko10 said:


> :lol You are so right! They are fucking idiots.
> 
> When the dust settles Russia will have effective control over the industrialized east with its mines and factories, and the southern regions with their ports along the Black Sea Coast. The West will wind up feeding the fucking useless Western Ukraine and dealing with their psycho Nazis and right wing militias.
> 
> - Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Speaking of Eastern Europe, presidential elections took place in Lithuania yesterday. It came off as a bit of shock to me, as I wasn't expecting it, but the results showed that a second round will be necessary. The current president, a conservative liberal, got around 47% votes, while the second place, a social democrat, got around 14%. I doubt that the president will change, but I really want it to.


From what I understand, Lithuania treats its minorities, especially the ethnic Russian community, much fairer than Latvia and Estonia. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that ethnic Russians living in Lithuania at the time of the dissolution of the USSR were granted automatic Lithuanian citizenship with no language restrictions. Latvia and Estonia still won't give ethnic Russians citizenship even if they were born there. The main criterion is having lived in Latvia or Estonia prior to 1940 and/or passing a language test.

I'm not trying to provoke an argument - just fishing for some first hand information. Since you live in Lithuania you would know the situation better than the rest of us. It seems to me that most of the ethnic problems in the Baltics are in Latvia and Estonia due to draconian, discriminatory laws against the very large ethnic Russian minority in those two countries.

- Mike

P.S. I'm not making fun here, but there really doesn't seem like much difference between a "conservative liberal" and a "social democrat." I'm not even sure what a "conservative liberal" is. 

In my experience, Social Democrats are despised by the entire political spectrum (for different reasons depending on the ideology of each political group). Capitalists hate them because they interfere with the making of profits. Communists despise them because they are not working for the end of the capitalist system, but are, in fact, a part of it. By the very nature of their ideology Monarchists hate them. Fascists hate everyone so there is no question there.

My question is - who votes for them??? :lol

I'm getting off topic here, but I hope it was an amusing divergence. I wasn't trying to start an argument. :avit:


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

DONETSK PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC DECLARES ITSELF A SOVEREIGN STATE AND ASKS MOSCOW TO CONSIDER ITS ACCESSION TO RUSSIA










Published time: May 12, 2014 14:30

*Donetsk People's Republic has proclaimed itself a sovereign state and has asked Moscow to consider its accession into Russia*, the Republic’s council said.

“We, the people of Donetsk, based on results of the May 11 referendum and the declaration of sovereignty of the Donetsk People’s Republic, declare that from now on DPR is now a sovereign state,” Republic Co-Chairman Denis Pushilin said. “Given the will of the people of the Donetsk People's Republic, and in order to restore historical justice, we ask Russia to consider the issue of our republic’s accession into the Russian Federation,” he added. 

Earlier on Monday the results of referendums have been announced in Donetsk and Lugansk Regions, showing the majority of voters support self-rule, amid an intensified military operation by Kiev which resulted in several deaths. 

*Almost 90 percent of voters in Donetsk Region have endorsed political independence from Kiev*, the head of the Central Election Commission of the self-proclaimed ‘Donetsk People’s Republic’, Roman Lyagin, announced. 

“Counting the ballots proved to be surprisingly easy – the number of people who said ‘no’ was relatively small and there appeared to be only a tiny proportion of spoiled ballots, so we managed to carry out counting quite fast. The figures are as follows: *89.07 percent voted ‘for’, 10.19 percent voted ‘against’ and 0.74 percent of ballots were rendered ineligible,*” Lyagin told journalists. 

*In Lugansk Region 96.2 percent of voters supported the region’s self-rule*, according to the final figures announced by the local election commission. 

The Kremlin’s press service has issued a statement, saying: “*Moscow respects the will of the people in Donetsk and Lugansk and hopes that the practical realization of the outcome of the referendums will be carried out in a civilized manner.*” 

It stressed the necessity of a “dialogue between representatives of Kiev, Donetsk and Lugansk.” 

At the same time, *both the EU and US dismissed the ballots in eastern Ukraine as illegal*. 

In the two weeks prior to the referendum, Kiev intensified the military operation in southeastern Ukraine. May 9 became one of the bloodiest days in the weeks of the operation. *It has been confirmed that nine people were killed and another 49 injured during the armed assault of Kiev’s army on Mariupol’s Police HQ.* Driven by reports of shooting, residents, then mostly celebrating WWII Victory Day, flocked to the scene. *The Kiev fighters opened fire on civilians*.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

This is not "independence". This is an "annexation". Of course they want to be with Russia - that, quite clearly, was the plan all along, irregardless of which side you support.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

This is interesting. Not sure on its authenticity, but I'll share anyway.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Despot said:


> This is interesting. Not sure on its authenticity, but I'll share anyway.


This was posted on May 7. 89%? 

http://www.voanews.com/content/pro-russians-hold-independence-votes-e-ukraine/1912366.html

Everything adds up. Plus, they announced the 'results' even before all the votes were counted. Also, anyone could vote. Even children.


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

The Farce Is Complete: Joe Biden's Son Joins Board Of Largest Ukraine Gas Producer

Hurr durr, we're the good guys. Our only interest is freedumbz.

What a joke.


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## Muerte al fascismo (Feb 3, 2008)

Isn't it obvious most of these Separatist leaders are probably FSB agents. The rushed referendum and recent actions are classic intelligence power-plays. It's a shame Ukraine is being used as a Geo-political battleground between Nato and Russia.

I don't know what's worse, the Kiev government, backed by some far-right elements, being forced to implement an IMF backed shock therapy agenda, or parts of Ukraine become nothing more then a puppet state to the autocratic rule of Putin's Russia. Politics can be a rough game.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> This was posted on May 7. 89%?
> 
> http://www.voanews.com/content/pro-russians-hold-independence-votes-e-ukraine/1912366.html
> 
> Everything adds up. Plus, they announced the 'results' even before all the votes were counted. Also, anyone could vote. Even children.


Aside from the claims of the pro-West media, *where is the proof* that "children" were voting and that people were voting multiple times. 

From the videos that I saw everyone had to show a passport before they cast a ballot and the election personnel were checking the passports. That's more than you have to do in the U.S. to vote. I.D. is not even required here.

Preliminary results were announced after a certain number of ballots were counted. In U.S. elections the media is usually announcing the projected winner after 5% of the votes are counted.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Aside from the claims of the pro-West media, *where is the proof* that "children" were voting and that people were voting multiple times.
> 
> From the videos that I saw everyone had to show a passport before they cast a ballot and the election personnel were checking the passports. That's more than you have to do in the U.S. to vote. I.D. is not even required here.
> 
> ...


Oh, so you need a proof for something that I said? HOW DARE YOU? You, fascist, nazi, fascist, neo-nazi, fascist, nazi sympathizer, fascist, nazi, NAZI, NAAAAAAAAAAAZIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> This is interesting. Not sure on its authenticity, but I'll share anyway.


Even if this phone conversation is legitimate it proves nothing regarding the Russian government interfering in the referendum or in Donbass in general. 

Barkashov does *NOT* represent the Russian government. He is the founder of the right wing, ultra-nationalist *"Russian National Unity"* organization that has absolutely *NO *say in the Duma or any other branch of the Russian government.

"*Orthodox Army of Donbass*" is a right wing, paramilitary organization run by Dmytro Boitsov that has *NO* affiliation with the Russian Orthodox Church, although they say they are defending Orthodoxy.

Boitsov represents only his group which has said it is fighting in eastern Ukraine to save the Orthodox Church. He is not the leader of the anti-Kiev movement. Barkashov represents only his particular organization and has absolutely no connection to the Russian government. His nationalist "Russian Nationalist Unity" has *NOT* been allowed to even register as a political party in Russia due to its ultra-nationalist ideology.

Jesus Christ, I went fishing this morning and when I got back an hour ago I found a load of phoney U.S. propaganda posted here. Washington and Langley are trying their best to discredit the referendum, when, in fact, it went off very well considering Right Sector was sent in by the Kiev junta to close down voting stations and shoot down voters.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Oh, so you need a proof for something that I said? HOW DARE YOU? You, fascist, nazi, fascist, neo-nazi, fascist, nazi sympathizer, fascist, nazi, NAZI, NAAAAAAAAAAAZIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You asked for proof and I posted videos showing election personnel checking passports and identities of the voters. Now, it's your turn to show us proof that "children" were voting and that people were voting multiple times. What's good for the goose...

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> You asked for proof and I posted videos showing election personnel checking passports and identities of the voters. Now, it's your turn to show us proof that "children" were voting and that people were voting multiple times. What's good for the goose...
> 
> - Mike


I never asked you for any videos of elections. Or at least I don't remember doing that. What I remember, is asking you for a proof of some shooting, which you ignored, since you didn't have any.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Muerte al fascismo said:


> Isn't it obvious most of these Separatist leaders are probably FSB agents. The rushed referendum and recent actions are classic intelligence power-plays. It's a shame Ukraine is being used as a Geo-political battleground between Nato and Russia.
> 
> I don't know what's worse, the Kiev government, backed by some far-right elements, being forced to implement an IMF backed shock therapy agenda, or parts of Ukraine become nothing more then a puppet state to the autocratic rule of Putin's Russia. Politics can be a rough game.


If, in fact, the leaders of the federalists are FSB agents (and, I said *IF*) what was Russia supposed to do? Sit back and allow the U.S. and NATO to engineer a revolution and walk into Ukraine unopposed? Putin is not Mr. Wonderful and is a dictatorial leader in his own right, but in this case it's a matter of where would the Ukrainian people be better off.

If you were Ukrainian would you prefer to live under a U.S. controlled neo-Nazi junta in abject poverty while the economy is being sucked dry by the IMF? At least if associated with Russia the living standards will rise and these goddamn Western Ukrainian fascists won't be able to terrorize the people anymore. 

If you read my posts when this thread first started you will see that Putin is not my favorite person for numerous reasons. He is not well liked by any stretch of the imagination by my friends who immigrated to the States from the other side. However, we all agree that in this situation he is right. The proverbial "red line" had to be drawn or else the U.S. and NATO would just keep marching eastward and obliterate Russia and any other obstacle to the United States hegemony.

- Mike


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

FUCK WESTERN NEWS

BETTER POST 37 PAGES OF RUSSIAN NEWS TO REALIGN THE THREAD

also Putin is very clever about deflecting criticism in Russia, whenever the public starts to turn he starts going off on other nations to warp up nationalism


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> I never asked you for any videos of elections. Or at least I don't remember doing that. What I remember, is asking you for a proof of some shooting, which you ignored, since you didn't have any.


Tomas, you know that I would never ignore you! Your request must have slipped through the cracks of this very active thread.

Be that as it may, check out the material below if you don't believe the Kiev junta's Right Sector nazis were shooting at unarmed civilians who were attempting to vote.

BTW, I have deliberately avoided using RT articles or videos. 

- Mike

*FOX NEWS*

Ukraine guardsmen open fire on crowd as rebels hold 'self-rule' vote

May 11, 2014
_"Ukrainian national guardsmen opened fire Sunday on a crowd outside a town hall in eastern Ukraine as pro-Russian separatists went ahead with scheduled "self-rule" referendums in two regions..._
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/0...-autonomy-vote-as-us-slams-illegal-referenda/


*DEMOCRACY ACCORDING TO THE KIEV JUNTA AND RIGHT SECTOR NATIONAL GUARD!*


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Tomas, you know that I would never ignore you! Your request must have slipped through the cracks of this very active thread.
> 
> Be that as it may, check out the material below if you don't believe the Kiev junta's Right Sector nazis were shooting at unarmed civilians who were attempting to vote.
> 
> ...


:lmao You've gone from RT to FOX news. It's amusing. But you posted an article in which the word 'nazi' was not used even once. That's some kind of progress, I guess.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> :lmao You've gone from RT to FOX news. It's amusing.


I can go right back to posting RT's reports. But, since FOX is a conservative U.S. media source I thought that you would believe it more than RT. I can post other reports from various sources. The shootings and repression by the Kiev junta's "National Guard" was so undeniable that even the prostitute western media was forced to admit what happened.

You just keep "laughing your ass off" while people are being shot dead and terrorized by the Kiev junta. I believe that shows everyone where you're at.

- Mike

P.S. The videos were from two other western news sources, not FOX.


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> I can go right back to posting RT's reports. But, since FOX is a conservative U.S. media source I thought that you would believe it more than RT. I can post other reports from various sources. The shootings and repression by the Kiev junta's "National Guard" was so undeniable that even the prostitute western media was forced to admit what happened.
> 
> You just keep "laughing your ass off" while people are being shot dead and terrorized by the Kiev junta. I believe that shows everyone where you're at.
> 
> - Mike


No one takes Fox News seriously these days. Absolutely no one.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)




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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> I can go right back to posting RT's reports. But, since FOX is a conservative U.S. media source I thought that you would believe it more than RT. I can post other reports from various sources. The shootings and repression by the Kiev junta's "National Guard" was so undeniable that even the prostitute western media was forced to admit what happened.
> 
> You just keep "laughing your ass off" while people are being shot dead and terrorized by the Kiev junta. I believe that shows everyone where you're at.
> 
> ...


Western media doesn't post something you think they should - prostitute.
Western media posts something you think they should - prostitute.

fpalm logic.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

When it comes down to it is wrong for the extremist part of Ukraine to kill to people, it is also wrong for Russia to come to people defense while grabbing the parts of the country they want 

If other "extremist groups" start popping up and Russia has go to other nations to "protect ethnic Russians" (a great card because it reminds people of Nazis) than I called it


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

The Manowarrior said:


> Western media doesn't post something you think they should - prostitute.
> Western media posts something you think they should - prostitute.
> 
> fpalm logic.


why are you wasting your time with him, he's a lying fanatic probably getting paid getting paid X rubles per post. why do you think he's multi-posted to the tune of 4-5 posts in a row for the last 50ish pages of this thread at least? more than half of them aren't even relevant to the topic, they're just boorish russian chest-beating about how awesome russia is. i wouldn't be surprised if somewhere in there he jubilated about how russia sent grozny back to the stone age because hypocrisy is clearly something that doesn't bother him.


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## TheJack (Mar 13, 2006)

Batko10 said:


> Aside from the claims of the pro-West media, *where is the proof* that "children" were voting and that people were voting multiple times.
> 
> From the videos that I saw everyone had to show a passport before they cast a ballot and the election personnel were checking the passports. That's more than you have to do in the U.S. to vote. I.D. is not even required here.
> 
> ...


I dont know about children voting, but this reporter followed a guy voting multiple times and filming it. 

http://www.bild.de/video/clip/wahlfaelschung/wahlbetrug-ukraine-35928762,auto=true.bild.html

Its in german but here are some of the thing said in the video:

- A guy voted 8 times
- He had to sign some document once (not stating his full name) and still could vote
- Twice they asked him were his residence is and he still could vote after answering that he isnt from there
- A woman voted for the Luhansk independence in Donetsk
- The reporter had to change his location after a russian reporter tweeted that he informed the local resistance to arrest him for his provocative action


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

> In U.S. elections the media is usually announcing the projected winner after 5% of the votes are counted.


in the US the election commissions running the elections don't announce the winner an hour after the polls close. US media projecting winners doesn't mean shit.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> No one takes Fox News seriously these days. Absolutely no one.


Then it's back to RT. 

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Western media doesn't post something you think they should - prostitute.
> Western media posts something you think they should - prostitute.
> 
> fpalm logic.


Mike posts from RT - he's posting from a bigoted news source.

Mike posts from a Western news source - he's only posting something he thinks they should post.

Whatever!

fpalm


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> Then it's back to RT.
> 
> - Mike


That isn't any better and you know it. But I'm not one to tell you what to do so if you feel like that's appropriate, go ahead. I for one am not going to read them anyway.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

deepelemblues said:


> why are you wasting your time with him, he's a lying fanatic probably getting paid getting paid X rubles per post. why do you think he's multi-posted to the tune of 4-5 posts in a row for the last 50ish pages of this thread at least? more than half of them aren't even relevant to the topic, they're just boorish russian chest-beating about how awesome russia is. i wouldn't be surprised if somewhere in there he jubilated about how russia sent grozny back to the stone age because hypocrisy is clearly something that doesn't bother him.


Apparently, hypocrisy is something that doesn't bother you and many of the other Kiev junta supporters on this thread.

I will continue to multi-post to fight the supporters of the coup and bring to light the hypocrisy and agenda of the U.S., E.U., and NATO regarding my people. *Yes, Eastern Slavs are my people and when they are oppressed, terrorized, and killed by the western puppet junta in Kiev and its Right Sector fascists I will stand up for them. No one has to pay me*.

As far as Grozny goes, it was sent back to the stone age by the radical Muslim fanatics there, not Russia. *Two of their agents blew up the Boston Marathon last year despite the warnings about them by the big, bad Russian FSB to the FBI*.

If we are going to criticize Russia regarding its handling of its internal affairs in Chechnya, we probably should examine the *American Waco Massacre *and many other such "stellar" moments in U.S. history.
More of the "*pot calling the kettle black*" here.

- Mike


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Waco is not the best example because it was super heavily criticized not only by the public but also the government at the time 

Even people who defended the ATF did so with the perceptive that their tactics needed to be updated


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Kiev military unit shoots at Russian journalists after fight near Kramatorsk in E. Ukraine

Published time: May 13, 2014 21:05









[/URL][/IMG]
Ukrainian servicemen on the road between Kramatorsk and Slavyansk.(RIA Novosti / Maks Vetrov)

Ukrainian armed forces have opened fire on journalists from Russia’s LifeNews working near the city of Kramatorsk, eastern Ukraine, where fighting broke out between self-defense forces and Kiev’s army.

The shooting began around 1 p.m. as three members of a LifeNews crew tried to enter the village of Oktyabrskoe following the fighting. The village is located some 20 kilometers from Kramatorsk. 

“We saw that machines were gone and the shooting stopped like half-an-hour ago. We tried to enter the premises of the village to find out what happened to locals, if they needed help, and if there were wounded among them,” reporter Oleg Sidyakin told RT. “But as we got closer to the outskirts of the village, we ran into an armored troop carrier with a Ukrainian flag on it and armed people in black uniforms. We were going in a car with 'TV' stickers, indicating that were are press. We stuck hands out of windows, but first there came one shot and then machine gun fire.” 

Sidyakin said he decided to turn away and move to a safer location, in order to avoid provoking armed people. 

“I had to make such decision because I could not put in danger the lives of a driver and a cameraman,” he said. 

The LifeNews reporter said that local residents were shocked, stating that some of them hid in basements. Many still cannot return home. Sidyakin said that phone communication was cut off, which “as self-defense forces told us, is a sign of an 'active phase' of the military operation” conducted by Kiev forces. 

Fighting between Kiev’s army and local self-defense groups broke out in the afternoon near Oktyabrskoe. 

“It was around noon. The Ukrainian army was taking ammunitions to the city of Kramatorsk,” local resident Vladimir told RT, citing his friend Aleksandr, who lives nearby. “There is the village of Oktyabrskoe, where there is a bridge [on the way]. Our self-defense blew up a vehicle with ammunition and set Kiev’s APC on fire,” he said. 

According to Kiev’s Defense Ministry, *a group of around 30 self-defense troops “ambushed a convoy of armored vehicles of one of the military units.*” 

The ministry said the self-defense group came to the scene beforehand and hid in bushes along the river. 

“*The first shot from a grenade launcher targeted the engine of an APC, which came up to the bridge. There was an explosion*. Another APC tried to pull away the damaged machine that caught fire further away from the village. The soldiers engaged in the fight," the ministry’s statement read. 

*Kiev says that six of its army fighters were killed and another eight injured, with one in critical condition*. 

Hours after the fight, *self-defense units confirmed that they “destroyed two of the enemy’s APCs*.” They also reported that one of their militiamen died. 

"It is true that there was an armed clash,” the Kramatorsk self-defense unit told Interfax. “*The enemy retreated*.” 

The fight near Kramatorsk is the latest in a string of local fights as Kiev continues to conduct its “punitive operation” against anti-government activists in southeastern Ukraine, which began May 2.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Luhansk 'People’s Governor' Injured in Assassination Attempt After Independence Referendum








[/URL][/IMG]
Valery Bolotov

MOSCOW, May 13 (RIA Novosti) - The People's Governor of Luhansk Region in eastern Ukraine was injured Tuesday in an assassination attempt, two days after an independence referendum in the region, Southeastern Army spokesman Vasiliy Nikitin told RIA Novosti.

"Yes, he [Valeriy Bolotov] is injured, and he is currently in a private hospital," Nikitin said.

*The assassination attempt occurred in the Luhansk Region at around 11:00 a.m. local time*, he said, without specifying the perpetrator or the weapon used in the attack. Bolotov's life is not currently in danger, Nikitin added.

Bolotov earlier declared the independence of the Luhansk People's Republic, where most citizens supported the act of self-determination on May 11 during a referendum, along with a similar one in the neighboring Donetsk People's Republic.

Donetsk announced it plans to ask Moscow to join Russia, while the Luhansk leadership also said it did not rule out the possibility of a referendum on becoming part of Russia.

"*We chose our own way of independence from arbitrary rule and dictatorship of the Kiev junta, fascism and nationalism*," Nikitin said, *adding that the region instead opted for "the way of freedom and rule of law*."


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

KIEV JUNTA'S DEMOCRACY IN ACTION: COMMUNIST PARTY OF UKRAINE AND PARTY OF REGIONS FACE BAN FOR SPEAKING OUT AGAINST TERROR CAMPAIGN IN THE EAST!

The leader of Ukraine’s Communist Party says the Kiev regime killed peaceful civilians in the country's southeast, and is spreading lies about the real situation. *The Ukrainian parliament is now seeking to expel communists and ban their activity*.

“*In Maripoul there was a slaughter of civilians, a mass murder. The number of those killed, first of all among peaceful civilians, is being concealed. A peaceful demonstration was shot at on May 9 and it was a show murder carried out by the current regime. There was a shooting of peaceful civilians, there was no one with weapons there. When you, using armored personnel carrier guns, killed a family of three, shot [them] in their kitchen, this is what you must be held accountable for; there is blood on your hands today*,” Communist Party leader Pyotr Simonenko said, addressing Ukraine’s coup-appointed acting President Aleksandr Turchinov while speaking at parliament's conciliatory council on May 12. 

Simonenko, who is a presidential candidate, was referring to the armed assault of Kiev’s army on Mariupol’s police headquarters on May 9, when nine people were killed and another 49 were injured, including a freelance video journalist working for RT. 

“*In Mariupol [you] killed and shot down police department personnel only for refusal to comply with the criminal order to disperse protesters during the May 9 demonstration*,” Simonenko said. 

Simonenko has called on Kiev to stop its “anti-terrorist operation,” saying it has now turned into a “terrorist operation against its own people.” 

“*You declared seven million people living in the Donetsk and Lugansk regions as 'terrorists*.' They went out yesterday [to vote in the referendum], stood in lines since 6 a.m. to vote against Kiev rule, against this regime, against your policy,” he said. 

Ending the military operation in Ukraine's southeast is “the first of what the Communist Party demands.” It is also calling on Kiev to accept the results of the federalization referendum. 

“*Your policy resulted in Ukraine losing Crimea. Now your policy is leading to the point where seven million people of Ukraine, 30 percent of the country’s GDP, reject their future with Ukraine*,” he stressed. 

According to Simonenko, the recent events in the cities of Odessa and Mariupol show that Kiev is trying to impose a “nationalist-fascist regime.” 

*These events show that those who had another point of view were burned in a fire of inquisition at the Odessa Trade Unions House. They were burned alive! They were utterly beaten with metal rods when they tried to leave the building or jump out of windows. They were destroyed because they, Ukrainian citizens, had a different point of view,”* he said. 

*In response to Simonenko's accusations, coup-appointed acting President Aleksandr Turchinov heckled the Communist Party leader and accused him of lies and dissemination of false information*. 

"*You have neither conscience nor honor. Take your place, liar. I order you to stop your speech*," Turchinov said, claiming the Kiev forces “protected” law enforcement in the city of Mariupol from unknown attackers who had tried to seize the police department building. 

Turchinov then asked the country’s Justice Ministry to look into the Communist Party’s alleged separatist activities and possibly ban the group. 

“*I would ask the Justice Ministry to look into this issue and if there is proof, to send the material to court and ban the Communist Party in Ukraine,” *he said. “There is a lot of information and material in regard to the participation of the Communist Party’s representatives in the organization of terrorist and separatist activities,” Turchynov added. 

The Communist Party says there are no legal grounds for such a measure. 

The leader of the nationalist Svoboda party, presidential candidate Oleg Tyagnibok, has claimed that *his party has collected documents that would allow the Justice Ministry to ban the Communist Party and the Party of Regions. The latter has also spoken against Kiev's actions in southeast Ukraine and called on officials to stop their “punitive” actions. In order to prevent Ukraine from splitting, Kiev should “sit down at a negotiation table,” the Party of Regions stressed. 
*
“To listen to you Mr. Turchinov, as you said, only 30 percent of people of Donbass voted. I want to remind you that this is 2.5 million people; they expressed their will. *In any country in the world, 2.5 million people is a real power, which a government should listen to,” Party of Regions representative Nikolay Levchenko said at the Ukrainian parliament, Verkhovna Rada, while calling Kiev officials “neo-Nazis” and “bandits*.” 

*Simonenko also slammed the Victory Day speech of Kherson Governor Yury Odarchenko, who stated that Hitler tried to liberate Ukraine*. 

“At the Victory Day celebration, he says that Hitler did the right thing when he invaded our country to ‘liberate’ the people of Ukraine from communists. This was said by a person who is either an idiot or a thug,” Simonenko said. 

Odarchenko responded by saying he will sue Simonenko. 

“I am suing you for a bald-faced lie, for slander, for cowardly and shameful propaganda,” Odarchenko told the Communist Party leader. 

*Though Odarchenko says Simonenko's accusations are a lie, the moment when he said the statement about Hitler was caught on video*. 

The Communist Party of Ukraine, which has been openly speaking against Kiev's coup-imposed regime since February, has faced increased confrontation since last week. On May 6, Ukrainian lawmakers accused the group of separatism and expelled it from a closed-door parliamentary hearing. *It was the first time in Ukraine's post-Soviet history that such a decision had been made*.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Kremlin logic: 2012 Russian protesters = 'radicals'. Western Ukrnaians protesting against their government = 'radicals'. Members of the Purge Spring = 'radicals'. Citizens rallying for independence in Eastern Europe in 1989 = 'radicals'. They're beginning to play the 'fascist' card a lot more often, too. The term 'Nazi' has always been misused, so it comes as no surprise that it is being tossed around excessively in media.

Honestly, they're just as bad as the US government loosely using the term 'terrorists' so frequently whenever people challenge the status-quo.

The mindset exhibited by both sides is ludicrous.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Mike posts from RT - he's posting from a bigoted news source.
> 
> Mike posts from a Western news source - he's only posting something he thinks they should post.
> 
> ...


Referring to yourself in third person is a sign of schizophrenia. Just saying.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

One thing can not be denied, however, and Batko is right about it. The US always acts in its own interests, irregardless of it is good or bad. For example, the US were behind the 1973 Chilean coup d'état. Chile, prior to the coup, was perhaps the most democratic and self-serving state in South America. The US needed to utilise the geographical significance of Chile, primarily due to the communist threat in Cuba, so they installed a ruthless dictator and turned Chile into a despotic autocracy. The CIA is also indisputably involved in the current events transpiring in Venezuela. 

I don't think the US engineered the Ukrainian coup like Batko believes, but they've gone to these lengths in the past to serve their own foreign interests and it's good to see that point being conveyed.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> Kremlin logic: 2012 Russian protesters = 'radicals'. Western Ukrnaians protesting against their government = 'radicals'. Members of the Purge Spring = 'radicals'. Citizens rallying for independence in Eastern Europe in 1989 = 'radicals'. They're beginning to play the 'fascist' card a lot more often, too. The term 'Nazi' has always been misused, so it comes as no surprise that it is being tossed around excessively in media.
> 
> Honestly, they're just as bad as the US government loosely using the term 'terrorists' so frequently whenever people challenge the status-quo.
> 
> The mindset exhibited by both sides is ludicrous.


I don't recall anyone calling the 2012 protestors "Nazis," and a large number of them were, in fact, Communists. In the protests leading up to the breakup of the Warsaw Pact bloc I don't remember the protestors being called Nazis. They were called "radicals," but not necessarily Nazis. 

The Western Ukrainians are being called Nazis, because they are Nazis - more correctly neo-Nazis! In this case it is not just throwing around a label.

From a historic perspective, Western Ukraine threw its lot in with the Nazi Germans and collaborated with them not only willingly, but enthusiastically, in the murder of hundreds of thousands of Jews, Russians, and Poles. 

Top leaders of the Kiev junta's government are Western Ukrainians who are the heads of or avowed followers of self-professed neo-Nazi organizations.

On Victory Day the Kiev junta appointed Governor of Kherson Region, Yuri Odarchenko, openly praised Adolf Hitler as a "liberator" in his V-Day speech. 

The Party of Regions was effectively disabled, delegates were beaten and their families were threatened if they didn't vote properly. Now, the Party of Regions and the Communist Party face a complete ban which would make them illegal on Ukrainian soil, beause they oppose the murder and violence perpetrated by the junta in the east.

Western Ukrainian Right Sector's self-professed neo-Nazis make up the vast majority of the Kiev junta's newly formed "National Guard" and have been murdering unarmed civilians in Donetsk Region and Lugansk Region. 

Western Ukrainians, many from Right Sector, burned alive 40 anti-junta protestors in Odessa and mercilessly beat to death those who managed to escape the fire.

Western Ukrainians of Right Sector also burned down the headquarters of the Communist Party Ukraine in Kiev and held a book burning in the street. A regional Communist Party headquarters was also torched by Western Ukrainians.

Demonstrations honoring the Waffen SS and UIA leader Bandera are held regularly in Western Ukraine. 

A huge portrait of WW II Nazi collaborator Bandera hangs in the Kiev municipal building.

In my opinion, the term "Nazi" is used properly when discussing Western Ukrainians and the present Kiev junta. They certainly have earned the title.

- Mike


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

> Apparently, hypocrisy is something that doesn't bother you and many of the other Kiev junta supporters on this thread.


pray tell, what hypocrisy have i shown. i'm sure it will be very entertaining to read such an explanation.



> I will continue to multi-post to fight the supporters of the coup and bring to light the hypocrisy and agenda of the U.S., E.U., and NATO regarding my people. Yes, Eastern Slavs are my people and when they are oppressed, terrorized, and killed by the western puppet junta in Kiev and its Right Sector fascists I will stand up for them. No one has to pay me.


eastern slavs are not being repressed you can lie about it all you want makes no difference mr. racial solidarity. the irony is enormous with you calling people nazis left and right. just by the bye, had any good beatings put on teh gheys by skinhead gangs in russia lately with the police standing by or actively facilitating the pogrom? you don't need to answer, it happens all the time so of course there has been. 



> As far as Grozny goes, it was sent back to the stone age by the radical Muslim fanatics there, not Russia. Two of their agents blew up the Boston Marathon last year despite the warnings about them by the big, bad Russian FSB to the FBI.


hahahahahahaha liar. Russia indiscriminately shelled Grozny with artillery and rockets until it looked like this:

http://cobb.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/11/28/grozny2600d_belyakov.jpg

blaming radical muslims for russian artillery and fighter-bombers and attack helicopters turning grozny into russia's latest remembrance of what happened to cities in WW2 might seem shocking to a westerner but it's pretty par for the course for those whose hearts swell with pride at slavic solidarity kicking those dirty brown people and their barbaric religion square in the nuts over and over again



> If we are going to criticize Russia regarding its handling of its internal affairs in Chechnya, we probably should examine the American Waco Massacre and many other such "stellar" moments in U.S. history.
> More of the "pot calling the kettle black" here.


i'm sorry, shouldn't i express an opinion on waco before you try to criticize me over waco? i will be more than happy to criticize what the US government did at Waco and many other such stellar moments in US history all day long if necessary.

i hope it would not be out of place to point out, if we are going to make comparisons, that such stellar moments in US history and such stellar moments in russian history are like a kid pissing beside a racehorse pissing. and the US is not the horse. 

more of you lying and making hilariously stupid accusations against others. and calling them nazis, of course.

the closest thing i've seen to a nazi in this thread, with the racial solidarity, the lying, the attempts to whip up vicious hatred toward anyone who doesn't buy the racial solidarity and racial threat bullshit you're peddling is you.

tell us some more about how it was really the muslims who leveled grozny and how eastern slavs must unite in the face of danger to their pure eastern slav-ness.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Just a quick interesting fact: a recent study showed that Lithuania is third most drinking country in the world, surpassing even Russia.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

deepelemblues said:


> eastern slavs are not being repressed you can lie about it all you want makes no difference mr. racial solidarity. the irony is enormous with you calling people nazis left and right. just by the bye, had any good beatings put on teh gheys by skinhead gangs in russia lately with the police standing by or actively facilitating the pogrom? you don't need to answer, it happens all the time so of course there has been.
> .


There's a big difference. Right wing Skinhead gangs in Russia are *NOT* sponsored by the government. The neo-Nazis of Right Sector and Svoboda are part of the Kiev junta, participate in creating legislation and making governmental policy, and have become the main troops carrying out the Kiev junta's terror in the south and east due to the army and police refusing to shoot their own people.

As the Kiev junta's grip of control of the country slips the repressions and killings have become more frequent and severe. 


















_40 Ukrainian federalist protestors die in Odessa fire set by Kiev junta's Right Sector and other neo-Nazis. People who got out of the building are beaten viciously_.








[/URL][/IMG]
_MASSACRE IN MARIUPOL, UKRAINE: UP TO 100 UKRAINIAN FEDERALISTS SHOT DEAD ON DAY OF VICTORY OVER FASCISM_









_Right Sector burns books outside Communist Party Headquarters in Kiev after trashing and burning the bulding_.




deepelemblues said:


> hahahahahahaha liar. Russia indiscriminately shelled Grozny with artillery and rockets until it looked like this:
> 
> blaming radical muslims for russian artillery and fighter-bombers and attack helicopters turning grozny into russia's latest remembrance of what happened to cities in WW2 might seem shocking to a westerner but it's pretty par for the course for those whose hearts swell with pride at slavic solidarity kicking those dirty brown people and their barbaric religion square in the nuts over and over again
> .


You picked the wrong bunch to defend. Aside from bombing the Boston Marathon, taking school children hostage, skinning Russian soldiers alive, the Chechen radical Islamic jihadists enjoy beheading Russian prisoners. 





























deepelemblues said:


> the closest thing i've seen to a nazi in this thread, with the racial solidarity, the lying, the attempts to whip up vicious hatred toward anyone who doesn't buy the racial solidarity and racial threat bullshit you're peddling is you.
> 
> tell us some more about how it was really the muslims who leveled grozny and how eastern slavs must unite in the face of danger to their pure eastern slav-ness.


I'm *NOT* whipping up ethnic hatred. I am reporting on ethnic hatred in my posts. You can twist that around to anything you like, but the bottom line is that the United States and the West are exploiting the ultra-nationalist ethnic hatred of the Western Ukrainians of Right Sector and Svoboda. How is reporting on their terrorism and murder in the south and east of Ukraine "whipping up ethnic hatred" on my part??? 

The only ones talking about "pure slav-ness" are you and Right Sector.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

‘Peed in public, behave like occupiers’: Latvian mayor complains about NATO sailors


Published time: May 14, 2014 06:47 









_Aivars Lembergs - Mayor of Ventspils, Latvia_

Crewmembers of NATO warships deployed to the Latvian port city of Ventspils are behaving like occupying forces, who don’t consider local laws apply to them, the mayor of the city charged. This discredits the alliance in the eyes of Latvians, he added.

“*NATO sailors in Ventspils were behaving like pigs, ignored Latvian laws and municipal rules*,” Aivars Lembergs told LETA news agency. “*Drunk, they urinated in public, right on shop windows, vomited, drank in public, which is not allowed. They picked flowers from flowerbeds and gave them to prostitutes.*” 

Lembergs, a vocal critic of Latvia’s cooperation with NATO, added that the foreign military personnel “*behaved like occupiers, who do not recognize Latvia’s sovereignty*.” 

The unflattering description comes as the mayor was commenting on an incident in Ventspils, in which several NATO sailors clashed with locals at a night club last weekend. One of the sailors, a 21-year-old Dutch national, sustained serious injuries and had to be taken to hospital with several broken face bones and a concussion. 

*The mayor alleged that the Latvian participants of the fight were simply protecting local women from harassment by the visitors*. He added that *since NATO warships arrived in Ventspils, the number of misdemeanor reports in the city has skyrocketed*. It is twice as large now as it was during the resent Day of the City celebration, when some 13,000 people flocked into Ventspils. 

The number of visiting NATO troops is about 90. 

The mayor said he is going to send a letter of complaint about the situation to NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen. 

There are 26 military ships from NATO and the EU currently visiting Ventspils to take part in Open Spirit, an annual NATO naval exercise in the Baltic Sea. 

Lembergs, who has led the Latvian port city since 1988, previously objected to the presence of NATO troops in Ventspils, comparing it to inviting Soviet troops into the independent Latvia in 1940. 

*The incident in Ventspils was one of several fights involving NATO troops in Latvia lately*. In the capital, Riga, four American soldiers clashed with taxi drivers after returning on the morning of April 25 from a night party. The conflict was sparked by an argument over payment for the ride, according to Latvian media.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

roadkill_ said:


> The Farce Is Complete: Joe Biden's Son Joins Board Of Largest Ukraine Gas Producer
> 
> Hurr durr, we're the good guys. Our only interest is freedumbz.
> 
> What a joke.


It's interesting how U.S. Vice-Presidents seem to make out financially better than U.S. Presidents on U.S. international aggression. Chaney made out like a bandit with his interests in Halliburton during the invasion and occupation of Iraq. Now, Biden's son is reaping the financial benefits of the U.S. engineered and backed coup and regime change in Ukraine.

I could be wrong since alot of shady shit goes on behind the scenes in Washington and corporate America. The U.S. Prez might be raking in his share of the Ukraine swag unbeknownst to us.

- Mike


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

You need to calm down with the snuff

The rules have a zero tolerance on that type of stuff

(of course I have an undying sig so...)

Also love how the NATO troops are doing what occupying Russian troops have been know for doing since the 1920s


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*MACEDONIAN INTERNATIONAL NEWS AGENCY (MINA)*

Official Kiev using UN marked Helicopters to attack militia 

Wednesday, 14 May 2014 

*The UN has voiced concerns over the apparent use of UN-marked helicopters by Kiev troops in their military operation against Donetsk regional militia*. A video of a white-painted Mil Mi-24 strike helicopter with UN logo has emerged.

When inquired about the United Nations’ stance on the use of peacekeeper-marked military hardware in non-peacekeeper operations, the office for *UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon’s spokesperson said such use would violate UN rules*.






“It is the responsibility of Troop Contributing Countries (TCCs) that provide Contingent Owned Equipment to peacekeeping missions to remove all logos and signage bearing the UN's name once such equipment has been repatriated to the home country or is no longer being used for official UN purposes,” the office told RT.

It added that UN-marked aircraft can be used for missions tasked by the UN and that UN’s Departments of Peacekeeping Operations and Field Support is in contact with the Ukrainian authorities to clarify the issue.

A video of a UN-marked Mil Mi-24 strike helicopter was published on Tuesday by LifeNews television. It said its correspondents covering Kiev’s military operation in the Donetsk Region took the video near Kramatorsk. *LifeNews said at least three combat Mi-24 and one transport Mi-8 helicopters carrying UN colors were spotted in the area*.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Just a quick interesting fact: a recent study showed that Lithuania is third most drinking country in the world, surpassing even Russia.


The study that I checked out had Lithuania in third place, so I guess it's the one you are refering to.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...e-uk-doesnt-even-make-the-top-10-9357860.html

While I wasn't surprised to find Belarus, Russia, and Ukraine in the top ten, I was curious as to how Finland escaped getting listed. Granted, it has been a long time since I was in Helsinki, but from what I remember the Finns were pretty good tipplers. In fact, at the time they seemed to me to be even heavier drinkers than the Russians.

I won't attempt to dispute Belarus' dubious honor of taking first place. I have nothing against having a COUPLE of drinks, but in Belarus (and in Russia and Ukraine) it got ridiculous. Every time you turn around someone is pouring vodka into your glass!:faint: And, it's rude to refuse.

To make matters worse, when I would got to the kolkhoz in Slootsk to visit my uncle and family unbeknownst to me my uncle would fill up empty "Stolichnaya" bottles with самогон/samogon, i.e. homemade moonshine. I had a few drinks of that stuff and on the way home I got sick as a dog. fpalm 

In 6 1/2 years living there I had enough to drink to last my entire life. I haven't had an alcoholic drink since I returned to the States in 1996! :lol 

Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Also, Lithuania leads the world in suicide rates. Way to go, Lithuania.


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

> You picked the wrong bunch to defend. Aside from bombing the Boston Marathon, taking school children hostage, skinning Russian soldiers alive, the Chechen radical Islamic jihadists enjoy beheading Russian prisoners.


saying muslims didn't level grozny is not defending them.

thank you for tacitly admitting muslims did not level grozny with your non-sequitir about how savage chechen guerillas can be. you are a classic. 



> I'm NOT whipping up ethnic hatred.


that's right, you aren't whipping up ethnic hatred with your crusade to protect pure eastern slav-ness from the boogeyman of... other eastern slavs.



> The only ones talking about "pure slav-ness" are you and Right Sector.


and i quote



> Yes, Eastern Slavs are my people


yes they are indeed.



> There's a big difference. Right wing Skinhead gangs in Russia are NOT sponsored by the government. The neo-Nazis of Right Sector and Svoboda are part of the Kiev junta, participate in creating legislation and making governmental policy, and have become the main troops carrying out the Kiev junta's terror in the south and east due to the army and police refusing to shoot their own people.
> 
> As the Kiev junta's grip of control of the country slips the repressions and killings have become more frequent and severe.


http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...aine-s-true-human-rights-threat-un-study-says



> Contradicting Russian claims, the UN’s Geneva-based human rights office said it found no evidence of “widespread nor systemic” persecution of the nation’s ethnic Russian minority. The report is the first since Ukraine fell into unrest in November. Tensions continued to escalate after Russia annexed Crimea last month.


http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2014/02/07/the-25-most-shocking-anti-gay-stories-from-russia-so-far/



> Peter Tatchell reported: “We witnessed a high level of fraternisation and collusion between neo-Nazis and the Moscow police. I saw neo-Nazis leave and re-enter police buses parked on Tverskaya Street by City Hall.
> “Our suspicion is that many of the neo-Nazis were actually plainclothes police officers, who did to us what their uniformed colleagues dared not do in front of the world’s media.
> “Either that, or the police were actively facilitating the right-wing extremists with transport to the protest”.


Another inconvenient little fact:

http://time.com/11680/crimea-russia-putin-night-wolves/

Wonder how a fascist Russian motorcycle gang managed to cross the Ukrainian border and get all the way to Crimea... oh wait no it isn't a wonder of course, the Russian government sent them there along with those "DEFINITELY NOT RUSSIAN" soldiers that Putin later said of course they were Russian soldiers. 

this is really just too easy. keep it up, your buddies in moscow are doing a really good job at having russia replace the US of A as the nation most of the rest of the world hates and thinks is barbarically stupid. and that was even before they decided to carve up their neighbor, the anti-gay stupidity was already enough.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

By the way things are going, expect to see more bloodshed in Donetsk over the next few days.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

deepelemblues said:


> that's right, you aren't whipping up ethnic hatred with your crusade to protect pure eastern slav-ness from the boogeyman of... other eastern slavs.
> and i quote
> yes they are indeed.
> 
> .


Absolutely nothing in your post negates the evidence of Western Ukrainian ultra-nationalist fascism and its exploitation by the U.S. puppet government in Kiev. And, my saying that the Eastern Slavs are my people is not racist in the least. It's a statement of fact. The Western Ukrainians are also Eastern Slavs. Unfortunately, they follow a western fascist ideology.

Pointing fingers at Russians regarding Chechnya doesn't change the fact that the situation in Ukraine was caused by the insurgency. And, that insurgency has utilized the services of the Western Ukrainian neo-Nazi element from its beginnings on the Maidan right up to the present terror being committed in the east and south.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> By the way things are going, expect to see more bloodshed in Donetsk over the next few days.


I believe that goes without saying. However, it appears that the Kiev junta doesn't have the military strength to take either the People's Republic of Donetsk or the Republic of Lugansk. 

When they first sent in the regular Ukrainian Army the troops refused to fire on their own people and demonstrated that they did not want to be used in a fight with fellow Ukrainians. This was precisely why the new "National Guard" was formed. Kiev filled it with Western Ukrainian Right Sector and Svoboda veterans of the Maidan Fighting and are using the "Guard" as the base of its anti-federalist terror campaign in the east and south.

The problem with this strategy is that they don't have enough troops to go right in and take the regions like they would have had if they were using the regular army. Picking off a roadblock here and taking back a building there just gives the federalists time to organize an offensive plan to strike back.

I predicted this a number of posts ago and believe that we will be seeing a increase in casualties among the junta's forces as they continue to lose control. Eventually, they will be driven out as other regions join in the secession and there are not enough Right Sector killers to go around.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*WHAT THE WEST WON'T TELL ITS PEOPLE!*
*KIEV JUNTA'S RIGHT GUARD NEO NAZIS SHOOT DOWN UNARMED CIVILIANS IN THE STREETS OF MARIOPUL*


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## Genesis 1.0 (Oct 31, 2008)

Putin orders his troops to withdraw, for the 3rd time, & THIS thread goes silent? :rudy

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/19/putin-orders-russian-troop-withdrawal-ukrainian-border


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Genesis 1.0 said:


> Putin orders his troops to withdraw, for the 3rd time, & THIS thread goes silent? :rudy
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/19/putin-orders-russian-troop-withdrawal-ukrainian-border



Some would say that silence is "golden." However, I guess everyone needed a breather. It was getting very intense around here.

In any case, it looks like the Donetsk People's Republic and the Lugansk Republic can stand up on their own without Russia sending in troops.

They held their referendum in spite of Right Sector murdering and terrorizing civilians; declared independence from the Kiev junta; wrote and ratified their respective constitutions; and are now gathering volunteers to fight the Right Sector infested "National Guard." From what I understand they are training 27,000 volunteers who have joined the new armies over the last week or so.

Meanwhile, the regular Ukrainian Army is *NOT* being used to attack the positions of the two republics. They have been stationed in outlying areas guarding roads, etc. Their refusal to obey illegal orders to fire on their own people, including killing civlians, has forced the Kiev junta to use the "National Guard" which is composed mainly of neo-Nazi Western Ukrainians of Right Sector.

With Right Sector's Odessa mass murder by fire, the shooting of unarmed civilian referendum voters in Mariupol, and other atrocities the Right Sector is just solidifying the opposition against the Kiev junta. The other regions are just waiting to see how it goes in the Donetsk and Lugansk Republics. 

And, when they decide to secede the Kiev junta will have to use U.S. mercs and NATO, because they don't have enough killers in Right Sector to keep down that many people. And, if the regular army mutinies that will seal the junta's doom!

That's my take on the situation right now and a summary for you. If you want I can start posting videos and articles.

- Mike


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## Muerte al fascismo (Feb 3, 2008)

Putin can't afford to move so directly anymore, especially with investors being spooked by the threat of even more sanctions. The Russian economy was getting killed by this instability. A business decision. Nothing more.

Considering his reputation/government is built on populist nationalism, I wonder how he balances this move.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Muerte al fascismo said:


> Putin can't afford to move so directly anymore, especially with investors being spooked by the threat of even more sanctions. The Russian economy was getting killed by this instability. A business decision. Nothing more.
> 
> Considering his reputation/government is built on populist nationalism, I wonder how he balances this move.


The main concern is that the voice of the people of Ukraine is heard and its wishes realized. This was never a war between the West and Russia, i.e. Putin. From the start it has been a grassroots struggle of the Ukrainian people against the expansion of the U.S. hegemony into Ukraine. 

The U.S. exploited the ultra-nationalism of the historically fascist Western Ukraine to topple the elected government and create its puppet junta in Kiev. Russia jumped in to save Crimea and strengthen its own position in the region at the same time.

Personally, I was hoping that Russia would just send in troops, swarm over the fascist held regions of Ukraine, and be done with it. In retrospect, I was incorrect. An invasion very well could have pushed the regular Ukrainian Army over to the side of the junta, whereas at the present they are neither pro, nor anti-Kiev. They are more or less neutral and just refuse to carry out the illegal orders of Kiev - the same kind of orders that landed the German Nazis in the dock in Nuremburg.

The anti-U.S., anti-junta resistance may need support. But, it is much better that they win their own independence than have Russia invade. The Kiev junta can't feed its regular army right now. What is going to happen when the IMF completely devastates the economy and they can't feed the nation as a whole??? The upcoming elections are a farce and everyone knows it. 

The junta leaders and the oligarchs will soon be picking the last bit of meat off the bones of an economically dead Ukraine before they flee to the West to escape the people's wrath and spend their ill-gotten gains.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Over the weekend, St Sava Serbian Orthodox Cathedral in New York NY collected *50,000 USD* for *flood victims* in *Serbia and Bosnia*. The cathedral immediately sent the funds to the SPC, which will distribute them to those areas across Serbia and Bosnia most in need of such assistance. 

The campaign continues, and all those interested in participating can do so using checks, credit cards, and PayPal by clicking the “donate” button on the church’s website. *Those using credit cards and PayPal should type in “Flood Aid” in the “special instructions” section of their accounts*.

Click on the link below this paragraph; scroll down about 1/4 of the page and on your far right there will be a box that says "*DONATE*." Click on "*DONATE*" and don't forget to write in "*FLOOD AID*" on your credit card or paypal "special instructions."

http://stsavanyc.org/

If you want to donate to help the flood victims doing it through St. Sava is the best way. *ALL* the money will go to Serbia and Bosnia. *NO *money will go to any middlemen or executives of the charity as is typical in most western charities.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

I guess all of Washington's threats of sanctions helped Russia make its decision to look east and away from the stagnant EU economy and decaying US empire. They just signed a *30 year contract *to supply over *400 billion dollars *worth of natural gas to China! The price per thousand cubic meters is estimated to be at over *$350*.

Between the buildup of economic relations with China and the growth of the Customs Union between Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Armenia, the threats of western sanctions will have less and less effect on Russia. 

*Ukraine would do well to reconsider with whom it wants to align its economic future - prosperity with the Customs Union or poverty and austerity with the IMF*. - Mike



http://en.ria.ru/russia/20140521/19...r-China-to-Exceed-Preliminary-Estimates-.html
Russian Gas Price for China to Exceed Preliminary Estimates – Source


MOSCOW, May 21 (RIA Novosti) – The price of gas under a new contract between Russian energy giant Gazprom and China National Petroleum Corporation exceeds analysts estimates of $350 per thousand cubic meters, a source acquainted with the terms of the contract told RIA Novosti Wednesday.

“The gas price under the contract is over $350,” the source said, refusing to name the exact figure citing commercial confidentiality.

Gazprom CEO Alexei Miller earlier declined to reveal the contract price for gas for the same reason. He did, however, say that the value of the entire contract was $400 billion, which if calculated against the expected flow amounts, comes to around $350 per thousand cubic meters.

Russian President Vladimir Putin later specified that the price was tied to the market price of oil and oil products and had satisfied both parties.

Gazprom and CNPC earlier in the day signed a 30-year contract on the sale of Russian gas to China at a volume of 38 billion cubic meters per year with delivery along the eastern route. It was signed on the second day of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s official visit to Shanghai.

The document was under discussion for several years with the gas price that the parties finally agreed on at the last minute being the main stumbling block.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Some different news from Eastern Europe:

*BEHEMOTH Have Been Kicked Out of Russia*

Yesterday, Nergal from Behemoth used the band's Facebook page to send an S.O.S. message saying they have been detained by Russian authorities for visa issues.

In a new interview, Nergal explained the misunderstanding:

"We received the visas at the Russian consulate in Warsaw. When we asked how to fill out the paperwork, we were told that it was necessary to obtain a business visa. We did everything we were told. Now it turned out that it was necessary to get some kind of a 'humanitarian' visa, not a business one."

According to Blabbermouth, a humanitarian visa is one required to enter Russia for "wishing to enter Russia for cultural purposes, science, sports, religion, etc."

The remainder of the band's "Russian Satanist" tour has been cancelled and after spending a night in jail, the band have been ordered to leave Russia within a reasonable amount of time. When asked what the conditions in the jail were like, Nergal said:

"It was a very small room and the walls were smeared with feces. At night, we asked to be taken to the toilet but our request was denied for some reason. So we had to use plastic bottles instead."

So basically it was like touring in a van. Additionally, the band was fined 2,000 rubles, which is about $60. The band hopes to one day return to Russia for a proper tour.

Here is a local Russian news report of the band looking miserable while being detained:






Source: http://www.metalinjection.net/latest-news/drama/behemoth-have-been-kicked-out-of-russia


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Released UK Reporter Says LifeNews Colleagues Safe

MOSCOW, May 22 (RIA Novosti) – RT contributing journalist Graham Phillips, who was released by Ukraine’s security service Thursday, said two other reporters being held by the Kiev government are safe.

Phillips was detained in Ukraine for filming "classified facilities" in breach of the country’s anti-terror legislation Tuesday. He was handed over to the consul of the British embassy in Kiev on Thursday.

He met with Ukrainian authorities to have his belongings returned, and to make a further appeal for the immediate release of his colleagues, LifeNews reporters Oleg Sidyakin and Marat Saichenko.

“Asked about situation with @lifenews_ru colleagues Oleg and Marat. Was told they are ok, but no further information available, it is 'matter between Kiev and Moscow',” Phillips wrote on Twitter.

Phillips told RIA Novosti he would leave the country soon and plans to cover the FIFAWorld Cup in Brazil, adding that he looks forward to future cooperation with RT.

*Over the past two months, reporters of Russia’s leading media agencies have been kidnapped, beaten, threatened and denied access to Ukraine. Broadcasting of Russian media has also been banned across the country*.

*LifeNews journalists Sidyakin and Saichenko were detained May 18 by the Ukrainian National Guard near the city of Kramatorsk in the Donetsk region after they caught on camera a UN-marked military helicopter apparently used in a special operation targeting demonstrators. *They were accused of assisting terrorism in the region.

Their current whereabouts are unknown. Russian authorities have repeatedly issued calls for their freedom.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*JUNTA'S "NATIONAL GUARD" PUNISHES REGULAR ARMY FOR REFUSING TO FIRE ON CIVILIANS - KILLS 16 REGULAR ARMY TROOPS, WOUNDS 30*.

16 Ukraine soldiers killed in deadly Donetsk region checkpoint attack


Published time: May 22, 2014 17:03 








[/URL][/IMG]
_An ambulance carrying dead Ukrainian soldiers travels off the site (seen in background) where 16 Ukrainian servicemen were killed on the outskirts of the eastern Ukrainian town of Volnovakha, south of Donetsk, May 22, 2014.(Reuters / Yannis Behrakis _)

16 Ukrainian troops were killed and over 30 injured in an attack on a military checkpoint in Donetsk Region. The deadliest assault on the army since Kiev launched its military operation in the south-east of the country comes a few days ahead of election.

The checkpoint on the edge of Blagodatnoe village, near the town of Volnovakha, was assaulted on Thursday night. 

Eyewitnesses told Russian Chanel One that the attackers arrived in transit vans, with armored vehicles and combat helicopters providing cover for them. 

The gunmen set fire to the military’s armored vehicles and began shooting at the rookie soldiers, who had their encampment near the checkpoint. 

The Donetsk Regional Administration said that 16 soldiers died and 32 received injuries in the attack on the checkpoint. 

The self-defense forces of the People Republic of Donetsk said that *the attack on the army’s checkpoint was a reprisal raid by the radicals, i.e. Right Sector*. 

“The Blagodatnoe residents came out to defend their homes. *The soldiers were ordered to crush the resistance. But they refused to shoot at people, and were, eventually, punished for that,*” the source in the self-defense forces told LifeNews. 

The witnesses told the channel that *the transit vans, which the attackers used for transportation, belonged to the Privat-Bank, which is owned by oligarch Igor Kolomoisky*. 

*Kolomoisky bankrolled the Ukrainian coup in February, and largely contributed to the creation of the National Guard which helped legitimize the far-right militants among the Maidan protestors*. 

*The newly-appointed Dnepropetrovsk Region governor is also blamed for masterminding the Odessa tragedy on May 2 *when 48 anti-Kiev protestors died after radicals set fire to the local Trade Unions House. 

The Ukrainian Defense Ministry has confirmed that there was a battle at Blagodatnoe village, but spoke only of eight casualties among its troops.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Self-proclaimed Donetsk and Lugansk republics form ‘Novorossiya’ union








[/URL][/IMG]
_Representatives from eight south-eastern regions voting at the people's congress in Donetsk / screenshot from RUPTLY video_

Self-proclaimed Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics which recently held referenda on independence from Ukraine have declared the creation of Novorossiya union.

“We have signed a memorandum on the union,” Denis Pushilin, co-chairman of the Donetsk People’s Republic, told the media. 

The new union will be called Novorossiya, said the people’s governor of the Donetsk Region, Pavel Gubarev. 

He added that the document was signed in the city of Donetsk by Donetsk People’s Republic Prime Minister Aleksandr Borodai and the head of Lugansk People’s Republic Aleksey Karyakin. 

*People’s representatives from eight Ukrainian regions gathered for a congress in Donetsk on Saturday, a day ahead of scheduled countrywide presidential elections*. 

As a result of the congress, the south-eastern regions of Ukraine, where anti-government protests gained momentum, have announced the creation of a pro-federalization Popular Front socio-political coalition. The movement accepted a manifesto vowing self-determination and protection of people from “Nazi gangs’ terror.” 

*The coalition involves Odessa, Nikolaev, Dnepropetrovsk, Zaporozhye, Kharkov, Kherson, Donetsk and Lugansk Regions*. 








[/URL][/IMG]

At the congress, all 145 delegates accepted the manifesto, which stresses that the Popular Front will consist of “everybody, who is ready to resist self-appointed Kiev authority, which started war against the people.” 

The coalition vowed to protect innocent civilians from the “terror of Nazi gangs, financed by oligarchs and foreign security services.” It also pledges “a joint fight for people’s rights to a decent life.” 

It says it has launched an investigative commission that will probe “crimes of Nazi-terrorists and their Kiev patrons”. 

The coalition is calling for a boycott of the presidential election, which is scheduled to take place on Sunday, because “all major candidates” are “oligarchs, whom we have already seen in top positions, hence, robbery and terror would continue,” the manifesto said. 

When it comes to a new Ukrainian constitution, the Popular Front demands that it guarantees “neutrality” and nonparticipation in military blocks as well as “political independence”, “mechanisms to stop corruption and massive poverty.” 

The coalition also demands that the parliament consists of two chambers. At the same time, regions must be given “a right to autonomy” and “independent foreign-economic activity”. 

In addition to that, regional governments must be given a right to “announce its territory de-militarized zones and also “ban political, social and religious organizations on its territory” in case they are considered a “threat” to the people. 

The Popular Front wants two official languages in Ukraine – Ukrainian and Russian. 

Lugansk and Donetsk People’s Republics earlier announced they will not participate in Ukraine’s presidential elections scheduled for May 25.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

ANOTHER OLIGARCH AT THE HELM - POROSHENKO WINS WITH 56% OF THE VOTE - KIEV CLAIMS THAT NATIONWIDE ABOUT 55% OF ELIGIBLE VOTERS TURNED OUT FOR UKRAINE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS

Most of the voters who turned out were in Western and Central Ukraine. The south and east saw a light turnout, and there was virtually no voting in the Donetsk People's Republic and Lugansk People's Republic.

Even if Kiev's claims are true that 55% of the voters turned out nationwide for the elections that would mean that Poroshenko is still a minority president. *His 56% of the votes translates into only around 27% of the country's eligible voters casting ballots for him!* 







10 facts you need to know about Ukrainian presidential poll

Published time: May 25, 2014 04:57

RT takes a look at the underbelly of the Ukrainian presidential campaign, and the people competing for the country’s once-so-coveted highest office. 

Follow RT's LIVE UPDATES on Ukraine presidential vote 

*Fact 1 
*
Presidential powers were considerably reduced in favor of the parliament right after the coup in Kiev. Oligarch Petr Poroshenko is likely to win office, according to public opinion polls. But after swearing an oath he, lacking his own party in the parliament, may find himself deadlocked on governmental decisions with Batkivschina (Fatherland) Party. Batkivshchina has strong contingent of MPs and is headed by Poroshenko’s main competitor, Yulia Tymoshenko. 

*Fact 2 *

At one point during the campaign, Tymoshenko threatened to start a new wave of street protests if Poroshenko wins. The barricades erected in central Kiev during the previous round of anti-government protest have not yet been dismantled, so all the necessary facilities for Maidan Round 3 are in place. 

*Fact 3 *

Poroshenko and Tymoshenko are just two of 21 candidates whose names made their way on to the ballots. Twenty-three others were barred from running, including Sith Lord Darth Vader. Seven candidates announced they were dropping out of the race during the campaign, notably Vitaly Klitschko, one of the three key opposition figures during the recent public uprising who now wants to be elected mayor of Kiev.

*Fact 4 *

The campaigning in Ukraine was marred by attacks on some candidates, including Oleg Tsarev, a politician with strong ties with the unruly east, who was beaten by alleged nationalist activists. Tsarev is another of those who announced they no longer have presidential ambitions.

*Fact 5* 

Kiev’s troops intensified their assault on the defiant Donetsk and Lugansk Regions on Thursday in the run-up for the election. Acting president Aleksandr Turchinov said the authorities want to “bring peace and serenity” there. The day proved to be one of the bloodiest in Kiev’s confrontation with local armed militias. 

*Fact 6 *

The self-proclaimed governments of Donetsk and Lugansk said they would derail the election in their respective regions. But it will be considered valid anyway by Kiev. Actually, it will be considered valid even if it takes place in one constituency only. The new authorities amended the election bill to remove the minimum turnout requirement.

*Fact 7* 

The people, who are branded “separatists” by Kiev, are not the only ones in Ukraine planning to reject the results of the election. The Ukrainian Communist Party is considering a similar move, according to one of its MPs. This may be connected with the fact that the new authorities are considering outlawing it “for separatist actions” – namely criticizing the military campaign in the east – and even kicked all of its MPs out of a parliamentary hearing, where a classified report on the campaign was delivered. Communist leader Petr Simonyenko announced dropping out of the presidential race.

*Fact 8* 

Ukraine routinely bars Russian journalists from entering the country to cover the upcoming election. Accreditation from the Central Election Commission doesn’t help to prove to border control that press or TV crews should be allowed in. RT’s own Spanish and Arabic-language crews were kicked out, as were the crew of VGTRK television, Kommersant daily and an Echo pf Moscow radio correspondent to name a few. The OSCE and human rights organizations have been criticizing Ukraine for oppressing the freedom of speech after the coup.

*Fact 9* 

More than 3,600 foreign observers from 19 countries and 19 international organizations will be monitoring the election. It is unclear how many of them, if any, will be observing the voting in the east, considering Kiev's ongoing military action there. For the first time in modern Ukraine’s history Russia did not send any observers, although some Russia-based human rights groups announced they were monitoring the presidential campaign remotely.

*Fact 10* 

Russian leaders said they would respect the will of the Ukrainian people voiced at the election and would work with whoever is elected just like Moscow is working with the current Ukrainian authorities. Earlier Russian President Putin said that most of the authorities in Kiev are illegitimate or partially legitimate


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Now I DO believe that Batko gets paid for every post by the Russian government.


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## Genesis 1.0 (Oct 31, 2008)

It's all about the Rubles baby. :banderas


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)




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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

DONETSK REPUBLIC TROOPS REPEL MASS ATTACK ON DONETSK AIRPORT ORDERED BY NEW UKRAINE "PRESIDENT"

Published time: May 26, 2014 10:41 








[/URL][/IMG]
_Missile and air attacks preceed landing of Ukraine troops who temporarily took the Donetsk Airport before being pushed back by Novorossiya patriotic forces_.

Donetsk self-defense forces claim on Twitter to have regained control over the international airport in the eastern city after Ukrainian troops launched a military operation there, deploying fighter jets and helicopters.

“The people’s army has the airport in Donetsk back under control. We are rooting out the remaining Kiev’s remaining troops. Airstrikes have stopped for now,” said the tweet from the self-proclaimed People’s Republic of Donetsk. 

However, other reports on Twitter suggest shooting in Donetsk still goes on, now moving to the downtown.

Earlier, RT’s Maria Finoshina reported from Donetsk that Ukrainian fighter jets and helicopters were again unleashed at the armed self-defense occupying the airport. The second stage of Kiev's "counter-terror operation" came amid reported negotiations between rebels and the Ukrainian forces at the scene. 

“The Ukrainian occupiers are conducting missile and bomb strikes on Donetsk International Airport. They are deploying military aircraft,” self-defense forces said on Twitter amid the intense fighting. 

"I have heard at least three blasts. Helicopters are circling over the city and military jets can be heard flying by," witnesses told local daily Ostrov. 

Loud explosions and gunfire were reported from Donetsk throughout the day, with Ukrainian army aircraft occasionally circling around the airport. A missile launched in one of the air raids reportedly hit the nearby Tochmash machinery plant, injuring at least one person, according to ITAR-TASS

*Shooting, fire at Donetsk railway station results in casualties 

*Reports of fighting outside the city airport have also emerged. RT’s sources in Donetsk said a private housing area was being shelled by mortar fire “for over an hour.” 

At the Donetsk central railway station a fire broke out and gunfire was heard, the area evacuated. One civilian was killed and two, including an 8-year-old boy, sustained injuries in the shooting, the region's administration told RIA Novosti.

Su-25 military jets, MiG-29 helicopters dispatched to airport 

“The counter-terror operation started as two Sukhoi Su-25s flew to the airport. They made a warning shot to the area of the terrorists’ location,” Aleksey Dmitrashkovsky, from the SBU press service told the portal. As the self-defense forces fired back, two military choppers, a MiG-29 and Mi-24, were deployed which say the rebels’ forces scattered across the airport. 

“Paramilitary troops arrived and they are now cleaning the area off,” Dmitrashkovsky said adding he has no information on casualties. 

Airstrikes started after the self-defense forces failed to comply with the ultimatum put forward by Kiev's troops, that is to surrender by 13pm local time, Vladislav Seleznyov, the head of the counter-terror operation, said on his Facebook page. 

The airport, which serves Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk and Zaporozhie regions, has been closed “for security reasons”, and Reuters witnesses are seeing smoke billowing from the building. Kiev’s authorities had demanded civilians are evacuated from the airport terminal’s vicinity and the landing field, locals told RT adding that mobile connection was also down at some point. 

Early on Monday morning, forces belonging to the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic came to the airport demanding that Ukrainian troops leave it. The self-defense troops said some 200 Kiev soldiers were guarding the inner perimeter of the hub. 

The airport was forced to suspend flights. The airport’s press secretary Dmitry Kosinov told RIA Novosti news agency that “operations will be resumed when armed people leave the terminal.” 

The State Aviation Service halted the air traffic through the airport till 9.00am local time Tuesday. 

*The clashes in Donetsk began just a few hours after the early results of the elections were announced. 

Billionaire Petro Poroshenko is currently leading in the Ukrainian presidential election. He is in favor of continuing the military operation in the southeast of the country. 
*
“I don’t have the information, denoting that it [the operation] must now be stopped,” Poroshenko said at a news conference. "I support its continuation, but demand a change in its format – it must be shorter and it must be more effective, military units must be better equipped.”


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Yeah, gotta make them Rubles.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

NEW UKRAINE "PRESIDENT" BEGINS RECONCILIATION WITH THE EAST BY KILLING CIVILIANS IN SLAVYANSK






At least two civilians have reportedly been killed and several wounded when the Ukrainian Army launched a mortar attack on the town of Slavyansk in eastern Ukraine. One of the shells fell near a local teachers college, according to Ridus news portal.

Residential blocks were ruined as a result of the assault by Kiev's forces on Monday, the Ridus correspondent reported from the scene. At least two apartment blocks were damaged and “at least two people – a man and a woman – were killed,” the reporter said. 

A representative of Slavyansk’s self-defense force confirmed to Itar-Tass that two civilians were killed in the town’s Artyom district and another person got wounded as a result of the shelling. 

RIA Novosti, citing local self-defense, reports of gunfights on the outskirts of Slavyansk, in the villages of Vostochny, Semyonovka and Slavkurort. Ukrainian army launched several artillery salvos from the mountain of Karachun near the town.


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## hardysno1fan (Apr 2, 2007)

Didn't Russia starve many Ukranians to death? Why would they want to go back?


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## Spanish Lariato (Jul 26, 2011)

hardysno1fan said:


> Didn't Russia starve many Ukranians to death? Why would they want to go back?


 I suppose that you are refering to the propagandistic artifact created by Goebbels and spreaded by the media mogul W.R.Hearst. They said that a total of SEVEN MILLION people died in Ukraine due to Stalin because he was EVULLLL. Of course said thing didn't happened (imagine the effects of such a demografic slump in the XX Century). 
What happened was a series of famines caused by a combination of factors that in the end didn't constituted that histrionic death toll. The main causes were the sabotage produced by the kulaks ( big landowners who were afraid of losing his privileges over the peasants and property with the then on going revolution), a sucession of poor harvests (you have to understand that before the revolutions Eastern Europe was still involved in archaic and atavistic feudal production methods. That also happened in regions such as Kazakhstan and Southern Russia) and a typhus epidemic. 
One of the pillars of this manipulation is that this was a tool used by to soviets to make a ethnic cleansing. But, unfortunately for the conspiracy advocates the majority of deaths happened in Eastern Ukraine, that as we can see is composed by ethnic russians in the better part so that makes no sense.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

I would add to Spanish Lariato's post that the entire northern hemisphere was going through a period of drought and unsettled weather conditons. During the time of the 1932 famine in the Soviet Union the U.S. heartland was turning into a dust bowel and hundreds of thousands of "Okies" were abandoning their farms and heading west looking for work. For those of you who have read Steinbeck's "Grapes of Wrath" you know what I'm talking about.

Even the father of the "Holodomor" myth, pseudo-historian Robert Conquest, admitted in his later years that there had not been a deliberate genocide in Ukraine. Initially, he had said that 3 to 4 million people had died in the famine. Later he revised that figure a couple of times and came up with something like 10-12 million deaths related to the famine.

The fact that the population of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic in 1930 was 24 million makes these figures absurd and obvious disinformation. About one million died in eastern Ukraine and one million in southern Russia. 

The Russian Empire experienced periodic droughts and accompanying famines every few decades for centuries. The 1932 famine was the LAST peace time famine in that area of the world. The subsequent completion of collectivization and elimination of the subversion of the kulaks at the end of the 1930s guaranteed a steady supply of food for both the rural and urban areas.

In all fairness, there were most definitely mistakes made because of some local authorities rigidity of ideology that caused unnecessary deaths and suffering. However, the 1932 famine in southern Russian and Ukraine was by no means a planned genocide. That's good propaganda for Yulia Tymoshenko and Washington, but it's not true.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*Kiev junta's troops blow up 2 marked ambulance trucks carrying 15 wounded and deliberately fire on civilians killing at least 50 non-combatants in yesterday's fighting*. 

Up to 100 killed in Kiev military op, Donetsk E. Ukraine - anti-govt forces

Published time: May 26, 2014 20:14 






More than 50 self-defense fighters and as many civilians have been killed since Ukrainian troops stepped up their offensive in the region on Monday, according to the PM of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic, Aleksandr Boroday.

Follow RT's LIVE UPDATES on Eastern Ukraine 

“We’ve lost more than 50 self-defense fighters,” Boroday said, as cited by RIA Novosti. “Many of the casualties are a result of two Kamaz trucks having been shelled by the Ukrainian army. *The trucks were driving the wounded from the battlefield near the airport. Around 15 people died there.*” 

Boroday spoke to journalists next to a morgue in Donestk where identification of the bodies is under way. 

“Two of our Kamaz trucks were fired at from the air and from an ambush on the ground. *Shooting the wounded runs contrary to all international conventions*,” Boroday added. 

He said the significant number of casualties could be explained by extensive use of air force by the Ukrainian military on Monday. 

Chairman of the Donetsk People’s Republic Supreme council, Denis Pushilin, also estimated that around 100 people might have been killed by Ukrainian troops. 

It’s still “impossible to pick up all of the dead bodies as snipers are shooting at anyone who tries to come near them,” Pushilin said. 

Footage by LifeNews shows a truck full of dead bodies. Representatives of the self-defense squads say they cannot yet give the names of those killed; the process of identification has only just began. 

“They were wounded. The car was driving them from a battlefield,” a masked representative of the self-defense forces in Donetsk told LifeNews. “*First snipers shot the driver, then they fired point-blank at the rest from a shoulder-launcher. The survivors were then gunned down by Right Sector militants - no one in the truck survived.*” 

Also overnight, self-defense forces reported that *Ukrainian military opened fire at an ambulance transporting two injured from the Donetsk airport.* The doctors inside the ambulance were unharmed, deputy of Donbass’ self-defense forces, Sergey Tsypakov, told RIA Novosti. The two wounded remain in the ambulance and it is not possible to evacuate them at this point, he added. 

This comes as the Ukrainian military is broadening its offensive against anti-Kiev forces in the southeast of the country. 

The fighting in Donetsk continued throughout the night around the airport, which was on Monday taken under control by Ukrainian troops, after they unleashed fighter jets and helicopters at the armed self-defense forces, who occupied the airport earlier in the day. 

Boroday claims the troops also suffered losses. 

“They were on the offensive, that’s why their losses have not been that big. We intercept their conversations, they are demoralized and are counting on breaking through from the airport.” 

Ukrainian Interior Minister Arsen Avakov, however, denies any casualties on the army side. 

"The airport is fully under control. The enemy sustained serious losses, we have none,” Avakov said on Tuesday, as cited by the ministry’s press service. 

A self-defense fighter called Evgeny, wounded in the fighting at the airport, told RT *the National Guard wasn’t just shooting at military targets. 
*
“They occasionally turned their weapons away from us and started firing at two-storeyed buildings, private houses - *they were demolishing first floors, and also shooting at a school*.” 

A video posted on YouTube reportedly shows Ukrainian jets attacking the area around the airport on Monday. 

Airstrikes started after the self-defense forces failed to comply with the ultimatum put forward by Kiev's troops, that is to surrender by 1pm local time, Vladislav Seleznyov, the head of the counter-terror operation said on his Facebook page. 

The State Aviation Service halted air traffic through the airport till 9.00am local time Tuesday. 

Loud explosions and gunfire were reported from Donetsk throughout the day, with Ukrainian army aircraft occasionally circling around the airport. 

Reports of fighting outside the city airport also emerged. RT’s sources in Donetsk said a private housing area was being shelled by mortar fire “for over an hour.” 

Also on Monday, at least three civilians were reportedly killed and several wounded when the Ukrainian military launched a mortar attack on the town of Slavyansk in eastern Ukraine. 

The clashes in Donetsk began just a few hours after the early results of the elections were announced. 

Ukrainian confectionary tycoon Pyotr Poroshenko is winning the presidential election in the first round of voting, having secured more than 50 percent of votes. 

Government troops will go on with the military operation until not a single self-defense fighter “is left on the territory of Ukraine,” said Vice Premier Vitaly Yarema, as cited by RIA Novosti. 

Yarema said the military operation was suspended on May 25, the day the presidential election was held in Ukraine. 

“It has now been resumed, we saw the results yesterday,” Yarema said on Tuesday. He did not specify how long the operation might take. 

President Putin once again urged “immediate termination of the military punitive operation in the southeastern regions [of Ukraine] and a launch of peaceful dialogue between Kiev and the regions,” says a statement issued on Tuesday by his press-service.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Now, the government in Kiev is elected, so you can stop calling it junta, because it is no longer one. But oh wait, you call it junta because RT does and you have no opinion or mind. You have been brainwashed by them and say, do and think what they tell you. Who are those pseudo-journalists trying to fool> Yeah, stupid people, who don't have a point of view, because it's easy to shape their opinions the way THEY want. Batko, you are one of those mindless people.


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## FalseKing (Nov 3, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Now I DO believe that Batko gets paid for every post by the Russian government.


Oh, come on, his posts are amusing as fuck. The level of brainwashed he's endured has reached astronomical levels.

I'm actually from Eastern Europe and at this point of my life, I'm fucking sick and tired of people like him. There is no doubt in my mind that the biggest retards on this planet are either pro-russian or pro-american. These peeps live in imaginary bubbles where truth doesn't exist.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

FalseKing said:


> Oh, come on, his posts are amusing as fuck. The level of brainwashed he's endured has reached astronomical levels.
> 
> I'm actually from Eastern Europe and at this point of my life, I'm fucking sick and tired of people like him. There is no doubt in my mind that the biggest retards on this planet are either pro-russian or pro-american. These peeps live in imaginary bubbles where truth doesn't exist.


It's not really the matter of pro-Russian or pro-American, but how far you go with that. People, like Batko, people who don't want to listen to the other side.

It's like Atheists and Christians. Atheism is using your brain, understanding stuff yourself, but it doesn't mean that there are no stupid atheists, as well as it doesn't mean that there aren't smart christians. Generalizing people who support one side is not right, but some people just are exactly like that.


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## FalseKing (Nov 3, 2013)

Yeah, you know what I meant.

People that go borderline for US/Russia are the worst.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

FalseKing said:


> Yeah, you know what I meant.
> 
> People that go borderline for US/Russia are the worst.


Exactly.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

This thread reminds me of a song I wrote for a band in school called "Echo Chamber"

It fucking sucked

but so did they

(thank you Rey Rey)

I also like Junta is one letter away from Junita, i like that name


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)




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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Some fun news. One of Lithuania's football teams, Dainava Alytus, might as well be world's worst team. This season, after 14 games played, they had 1 goal scored ans conceded 72. That's more than 5 goals per match. The fun thing is, they have just changed their manager and they won a game. They actually won a game. Pretty cool.

inb4 Batko reposts another news story from RT without adding anything relevant to the discussion. Posting news without adding anything from yourself is against the forum rules.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Some fun news. One of Lithuania's football teams, Dainava Alytus, might as well be world's worst team. This season, after 14 games played, they had 1 goal scored ans conceded 72. That's more than 5 goals per match. The fun thing is, they have just changed their manager and they won a game. They actually won a game. Pretty cool.
> 
> inb4 Batko reposts another news story from RT without adding anything relevant to the discussion. Posting news without adding anything from yourself is against the forum rules.


So, what are you going to do? Get me banned so you can silence the truth about the new "president's" genocide??

The truth is getting harder and harder to cover up, so it would be easier to shut me up.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> So, what are you going to do? Get me banned so you can silence the truth about the new "president's" genocide??
> 
> The truth is getting harder and harder to cover up, so it would be easier to shut me up.
> 
> - Mike


LOL :lmao I said that what you're doing is against the forum rules. If anything, it's you getting yourself banned.


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> So, what are you going to do? Get me banned so you can silence the truth about the new "president's" genocide??
> 
> The truth is getting harder and harder to cover up, so it would be easier to shut me up.
> 
> - Mike


even vladimir putin has accepted poroshenko as the legitimate president of the ukraine

now we must eagerly await batko's newest tirade about how vladimir putin is leading a fascist junta against the freedom and security of true russians by conniving with the "president" of the ukraine 

the rebels can't even get their stories straight you have pushilin saying 200 people died 100 civilians while his stormtroopers at the hospitals can't even get the hospitals to toe his line, 33-40 dead fighters and 2 dead civilians according to hospitals. 90-96% of deaths being fighters doesn't quite meet the definition of genocide

we must also eagerly await batko's newest new tirade about how fascists have slipped in past the brave donetsk people's militia freedom fighters and covertly taken over the hospitals so they can lie and conceal the TRUTH. in fact i wouldn't be surprised if the donetsk people's militia has been fascist all along, otherwise why would they allow these hospitals to lie about the GENOCIDE? 

is there no one left but batko to protect the rights of russians to carve up other countries and mutilate people who disagree with their imperialism?



> I suppose that you are refering to the propagandistic artifact created by Goebbels and spreaded by the media mogul W.R.Hearst. 1. They said that a total of SEVEN MILLION people died in Ukraine due to Stalin because he was EVULLLL. Of course said thing didn't happened (imagine the effects of such a demografic slump in the XX Century).
> 2. What happened was a series of famines caused by a combination of factors that in the end didn't constituted that histrionic death toll. 3. The main causes were the sabotage produced by the kulaks ( big landowners who were afraid of losing his privileges over the peasants and property with the then on going revolution), 4. a sucession of poor harvests (you have to understand that before the revolutions Eastern Europe was still involved in archaic and atavistic feudal production methods. That also happened in regions such as Kazakhstan and Southern Russia) and a typhus epidemic.
> 5. One of the pillars of this manipulation is that this was a tool used by to soviets to make a ethnic cleansing. But, unfortunately for the conspiracy advocates the majority of deaths happened in Eastern Ukraine, that as we can see is composed by ethnic russians in the better part so that makes no sense.


this is all bullshit by the way 

1. yes anywhere from 5-10 million ukrainians starved to death as is well-documented
2. what happened was starvation and mass murder were used as tools of terror to break the resistance of the common peasantry as is well-documented
3. the main causes were collectivization and confiscation of all grain including seed grain, aka policies of the soviet government, as is well-documented. most "kulaks" had already been purged and the main resistors and victims of collectivization were the agricultural proletariat that was viewed with suspicion and contempt by the urban proletariat favoring soviets, which is again well-documented.
4. a succession of poor harvests caused by the policies of the soviets, as is again well-documented. atavistic and feudal methods, roflmao. as is again well-documented, soviet farming was nearing and in some areas had surpassed pre-ww1 (post stolypin reform) production levels, until collectivization. the mention of kazakhstan is quite hilarious as thanks to collectivization the amount of livestock in kazakhstan declined by 90% as is once more well-documented. almost 20 million livestock to barely 2 million. yeah, typhus and kulak sabotage are to blame. suuuuuure.
5. this is typical of the dishonesty of people like you, prior to 1932-1933 the majority ethnicity in east ukraine was ukrainian. after that, still ukrainian, just less so. again, well documented.

here is an excellent article about the holodomor that isn't full of tendentious bullshit about kulak sabotage and how east ukraine was "for the better part" ethnic russian 80 years ago (they are not even today, the only province of ukraine that is majority ethnic russian is the crimean peninsula).

http://faminegenocide.com/resources/was_it_holodomor.htm

here's the wikipedia article on holodomor denial, note how you manage to hit all the high notes of holodomor denial right down to whining about hearst newspapers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial_of_the_Holodomor

http://www.ucc.ca/positions/holodomor/holodomor-resources/ - here are many excellent links to photographs, testimonies, soviet documents, news reports, personal diaries and notes, etc. 

naturally all of these are fabricated if you believe that tens if not hundreds of thousands of people could successfully engage in a conspiracy of this nature and successfully do so over a period of decades.


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## SovietWrestler (May 30, 2012)

I hope that Russia helps the people of the East of Ukraine and Donetsk People's Republic.

Seriously, I really hate the fascism, we have to destroy it again. In my country Spain, in the end of 30s we had a Civil War, and the fascism killed so many people like farmers and workers only for be communist, socialist or even republican (not american republican, republican who only wants a Republic). So many people of diferent countries formed the International Brigades and helped us with the Soviet Union. Was proletarian internationalism. Now, our antifascist friends of the East of Ukraine and Donetsk People's Republic needs our help. 

All the workers of the world are one.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

[/URL][/IMG]
_Coal miners hold a banner depicting a miner destroying a swastika with the colors of the Ukrainian flag and reading "Fascism will not pass" during a demonstration in the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk on May 28, 2014.(AFP Photo / Viktor Drachev_)


In a previous post I stated my opinion that if the Kiev junta pisses off the miners they are finished in the east. Well, the newly "elected president" has done even what the Soviet government never dared to do. He's pissed off the miners! 

3,000 coal miners marched against the government. Hopefully, their strike will completely shut down coal production across the region and bring fascist controlled Ukraine to its knees. 

Having his Nazi "National Guard" shoot them down like they do other civilians is not possible since there would be no one to work the mines and produce coal. 

*THE WORKERS WILL WIN THIS WAR IN THE END - SPECIFICALLY THE MINERS!
*
- Mike 


Ukrainian miners protest against Kiev’s military op in ‘March of Peace’ 

Published time: May 28, 2014 20:29 






Around 3,000 Donbas miners – the driving force of the coal-rich region – marched through the streets of Donetsk on Wednesday, protesting against Kiev's ongoing military operation in eastern Ukraine.

The demonstrators, who then gathered at a central square for a rally, chanted *“Fascism won’t pass!” and “Donbas will not forgive*!” 

While some of the miners interviewed by RIA Novosti support the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic, others simply reject what they refer to as the “fascist” policies of Kiev authorities. 

“What is now happening in Donetsk, all this shooting, this does worry our wives, our children. People want to leave peacefully, to work peacefully, in a peaceful and prosperous country,” a miner named Viktor said. 

*The rally marked the end of the Donbas miners’ “neutrality” – until this week, they chose to not participate in anti-government actions. Just one day earlier, on Tuesday, workers at several mines in Donetsk went on strike.
*





“*The miners of Donbas announce an indefinite strike and demand an end to the military operation and the withdrawal of Ukrainian troops from the territory of Donetsk region,” *deputy head of the coal mining industry of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR), Konstantin Kuzmin, said on Tuesday. 

He added that *miners from the Skochinskogo, Abakumova, Chelyuskintsev, and Trudovskaya mines joined the strike*.

Previously, the workers were reportedly warned against walking out in protest against the coup-imposed Kiev government. 

But Monday saw Kiev’s brutal attack on the international airport in an attempt to win it back from self-defense forces. Fighter jets and battle helicopters were unleashed and fighting eventually relocated to downtown Donetsk. More than 50 civilians and as many self-defense troops have been killed in the subsequent clashes. 

The southeastern region of Donbas is the industrial center of the country. Coal in Ukraine is one of the nation's biggest industries, while the region has been a coal mining area since the late 19th century. *The miners are a powerful driving force in the region*. 

The clashes in Donetsk began just a few hours after the early results of the presidential election were announced. 

The president-elect, billionaire Petro Poroshenko, is in favor of continuing the military operation in the southeast of the country, despite earlier calls from the nation's parliament to withdraw troops. 

“I don’t have the information, denoting that [the operation] must now be stopped,” Poroshenko said during a news conference on election night. "I support its continuation, but demand a change in its format – it must be shorter and it must be more effective, military units must be better equipped.”


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> So, what are you going to do? Get me banned so you can silence the truth about the new "president's" genocide??
> 
> The truth is getting harder and harder to cover up, so it would be easier to shut me up.
> 
> - Mike


Wow. You're actually starting to sound paranoid. :deandre

And I would also like to know why you (or RT, or RIA, or Pravda, or some other site, I don't even know anymore) are still calling the government a "junta"?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> Wow. You're actually starting to sound paranoid. :deandre
> 
> And I would also like to know why you (or RT, or RIA, or Pravda, or some other site, I don't even know anymore) are still calling the government a "junta"?


The government is still a junta, the phoney election didn't change anything. The election was rushed through for only one reason - to allow people like yourself to say that the government is legal and not a junta.

First of all, there were no candidates that represented any position except the position of the junta and the United States. Simonenko, the Communist candidate, dropped out a couple of weeks prior to the polling in protest of the terror operations of the junta in the east and south. But despite his objections they kept his name on the ballot to make it look like there was some kind of choice. 

And, to further demonstrate how phoney this junta's elections are, they are banning the Communist Party of Ukraine, yet they put Simonenko's name on the ballot after he drops out of the race.

Other presidential candidates who professed their opposition to the Maidan coup and illegal government were beaten, kidnapped, or threatened. 

Secondly, if you believe the Kiev junta's data that 55% of the eligible voters participated in the polls and that the oligarch Poroshenko received 54%, then in fact he only received the votes of about 27% of the Ukrainian voters. That's hardly a mandate!

Thirdly, the rest of the government remains the same as far as I can see. The parliament is in the hands of the junta. The parliamentarians who were driven out after the junta took control have not been returned to their positions. In fact, the Party of Regions is also being banned by the junta along with the Communist Party of Ukraine. 

Finally, how can you recognize the elections of an illegal government that is, in fact, a junta that took control by overthrowing the elected government and trashing the constitution??? I guess in the Orwellian world of U.S. foreign policy it is permissable as long as it furthers the agenda of Washington and Langley.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> The government is still a junta, the phoney election didn't change anything. The election was rushed through for only one reason - to allow people like yourself to say that the government is legal and not a junta.
> 
> First of all, there were no candidates that represented any position except the position of the junta and the United States. Simonenko, the Communist candidate, dropped out a couple of weeks prior to the polling in protest of the terror operations of the junta in the east and south. But despite his objections they kept his name on the ballot to make it look like there was some kind of choice.
> 
> ...


Tell me how this election was phony and the ones done in Western Ukraine were real :lmao


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Tell me how this election was phony and the ones done in *Western* Ukraine were real :lmao


I believe I did in my post. An election gives the voter a choice. There was no choice in the Ukrainian presidential election. Every candidate was pro-West, pro-junta.

In Donetsk and Lugansk there was a choice - secede from Ukraine or do not secede. Pretty simple.

- Mike

P.S. I believe that you meant Eastern Ukraine.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> I believe I did in my post. An election gives the voter a choice. There was no choice in the Ukrainian presidential election. Every candidate was pro-West, pro-junta.
> 
> In Donetsk and Lugansk there was a choice - secede from Ukraine or do not secede. Pretty simple.
> 
> ...


Yes, I did mean Eastern. Still, all the elections were done the same way. Your hypocrisy is beyond ridiculous.


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> - Mike


Believe it or not, that was actually meant as an honest question, not a personal attack on you or your views. I am not on the side of the government (the "junta", if that's what you want to go with), or the side of the Russian-minded separatists. With this propaganda-war from both sides I can't know what really is going on there and I think it would be hypocritical to just blindly go on one side. And it's pretty funny how you're using Washington's and the US's ideologies against me after I stated my opinion on them multiple times. But let's just go with this.



Batko10 said:


> The government is still a junta, the phoney election didn't change anything. The election was rushed through for only one reason - to allow people like yourself to say that the government is legal and not a junta.


I believe the Crimean referendum was very much rushed through as well, even more so than this one. The Russian-minded people seem to accept that so I don't think it should be an issue here, either. And I have not once called the government legal, so could you stop putting words in my mouth please.



Batko10 said:


> First of all, there were no candidates that represented any position except the position of the junta and the United States. Simonenko, the Communist candidate, dropped out a couple of weeks prior to the polling in protest of the terror operations of the junta in the east and south. But despite his objections they kept his name on the ballot to make it look like there was some kind of choice.


The Russian-minded candidates dropped out (or didn't enter) in protest, kind of like how the Ukrainian minded people of Crimea didn't vote against joining Russia in protest. Again, sounds pretty similar to Crimea, which is very legit according to the Russians.



Batko10 said:


> And, to further demonstrate how phoney this junta's elections are, they are banning the Communist Party of Ukraine, yet they put Simonenko's name on the ballot after he drops out of the race.


I have heard about the president wanting to ban the communist party and I think that's incredibly stupid. Although I don't believe in communism, you should be allowed to represent the political ideology you believe in. I have no arguments or questions on that.

I would, however, like to hear more about his name staying on the ballot. Was he the only name they kept there after their withdrawal?



Batko10 said:


> Other presidential candidates who professed their opposition to the Maidan coup and illegal government were beaten, kidnapped, or threatened.


I read about one of the candidates getting beat. I don't accept it and it definitely shouldn't be allowed to happen, but it is bound to happen in a country that holds a presidential election on the brink of a war. (*I'm not trying to make it justifiable by saying that*) Unless there's any proof that it was orchestrated by the Kiev government, it can't be blamed on them.



Batko10 said:


> Secondly, if you believe the Kiev junta's data that 55% of the eligible voters participated in the polls and that the oligarch Poroshenko received 54%, then in fact he only received the votes of about 27% of the Ukrainian voters. That's hardly a mandate!


There are similar statistics about the Crimean vote, (apparently) published by Kremlin itself. Apparently, 30-50% of the eligible voters voted, and 50-60% of them voted to join Russia. Yet that's perfectly fine by you, RT, Russia and the Russian-minded separatists.



Batko10 said:


> Thirdly, the rest of the government remains the same as far as I can see. The parliament is in the hands of the junta. The parliamentarians who were driven out after the junta took control have not been returned to their positions. In fact, the Party of Regions is also being banned by the junta along with the Communist Party of Ukraine.


See above for my stance on banning of political parties.




Batko10 said:


> Finally, how can you recognize the elections of an illegal government that is, in fact, a junta that took control by overthrowing the elected government and trashing the constitution??? I guess in the Orwellian world of U.S. foreign policy it is permissable as long as it furthers the agenda of Washington and Langley.


I haven't even recognized the elections yet. You, on the other hand, seem to accept the elections held in Crimea, that are against the Ukrainian constitution of 1996. Could you tell me more on that?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> *1.* I believe the Crimean referendum was very much rushed through as well, even more so than this one. The Russian-minded people seem to accept that so I don't think it should be an issue here, either.
> 
> *2.* The Russian-minded candidates dropped out (or didn't enter) in protest, kind of like how the Ukrainian minded people of Crimea didn't vote against joining Russia in protest. Again, sounds pretty similar to Crimea, which is very legit according to the Russians.
> 
> ...


*1.* Well, it was rushed because they didn't want Right Sector National Guard thugs shooting down unarmed, non-combatant civilians who were trying to voice their opinion. And, they were correct in doing so as was proven later in Mariupol when the Kiev junta's National Guard gunned down unarmed civilians trying to vote for secession and forcibly closed polling stations.

*2.* "Pro-Russian" candidates dropped out not as a demonstration of protest, but more out of fear for their lives and the well being of their families. The Crimean referendum had around an 80%+ turnout of eligible voters, 96% of whom voted to break away from Ukraine. Even if the 20% who protested by not voting showed up it would have been way too few votes to change the result. Instead of 96% for secession it would have been around 75%. Either way, an overwhelming majority of Crimeans wanted out of the hell hole the junta and U.S. were creating.

*3.* As far as I know Simonenko was the only one forced to remain on the ballot against his wishes. I'm sorry, but even the people here who are pro-junta have to admit that this very bizzare. A few weeks before the election the Party of Regions and Communist Party of Ukraine were barred from attending an important meeting of all delegates to the Verkhovna Rada which directly concerned the electon. Just prior to that meeting charges were being viled by Turchenov that accused the Communist Party of Ukraine of high treason. Similar charges were being filed against the Party of Regions. 

All this came occurred after Simonenko voiced his opinion on the Rada podium that the military operations in the east should be stopped. He was forcibly shoved from the podium and driven out of the chamber by the junta's lackies.

*4.* Once the Western Ukrainian fascist forces overthrew the elected government and the Ukrainian Constitution was trashed, there was no longer any constitution to either uphold, or violate. The junta created an illegal government to whom no one else ever swore allegiance.

- Mike


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

> The government is still a junta, the phoney election didn't change anything. The election was rushed through for only one reason - to allow people like yourself to say that the government is legal and not a junta.


Vladimir Putin disagrees with you.

Again, is Vladimir Putin now a part of the fascist Kiev junta conspiracy, or is he somehow monumentally mistaken? Remember, this is a man who rules one of the strongest countries on earth. He has access to literally tens of thousands of sources of information that we do not. 

So, could you please explain the change in tune between you and Mr. Putin? Until the election, Mr. Putin and his government were quite willing along with you to label the Kiev government as a fascist junta. Now they do not. Yet you still do. Can you account for the change in Mr. Putin's view? Why would Mr. Putin change that view, if you would go so far as to offer some _informed_ speculation? My meaning is you don't seem to know a lot that is true but you do seem to know a lot, surely you can offer some informed speculation regarding Mr. Putin now being unable to recognize the swastika you see so boldly being worn by Mr. Poroshenko.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*COME ON DOWN, POROSHENKO! FLY THE FRIENDLY SKIES*!:lmao

It looks like Putin is patting the pig Poroshenko on the back with one hand and supplying SAMs to the freedom fighters with the other.

A scumbag, murdering Nazi Right Sector general and 13 of his Right Sector SS troops went down with their helicopter after freedom fighters in Slavyansk let loose with what appears to be a hand held heat seeking surface to air missile.

СЛАВА ГЕРОЯМ ДОНБАССА, СЛАВА!



14 military killed in chopper downed in E. Ukraine - acting president

Published time: May 29, 2014 09:39 






Fourteen Ukrainian soldiers have been killed in a helicopter crash near the city of Slavyansk in the Donetsk Region, according to the acting president of Ukraine, Aleksandr Turchinov.

Anti-government protesters in Slavyansk have downed a Ukrainian forces helicopter in the south-east of Slavyansk in the Donetsk region. 

Fourteen servicemen, including a major-general, Vladimir Kulchitsky, have have been killed in a helicopter crash near Slavyansk, according to the acting president of Ukraine, Aleksandr Turchinov, who spoke at a parliamentary session in Kiev. 

Kulchitsky, 51, was the head of the department of Combat and Special training in Ukraine’s National Guard. 

Meanwhile, Ukraine’s National Guard reported 12 dead: six servicemen, including the helicopter crew and six members of the Berkut forces. 

Ukraine’s army has started shelling the eastern Ukraine cities of Slavyansk and Kramatorsk, thereby resuming its massive military operation in the East of the country, local news outlets report. 

“A full-scale military operation has begun in Kramatorsk and Slavyansk. BM-21 launch vehicle “Grad” are being used,” Donbas-based Ostrov agency says. 

“Intensive shooting has been heard in the region, and thick black smoke seen,” he added. 

One more damaged house in Slavyansk. The residents were outside during the attack. 

Meanwhile, Itar-Tass has reported that fighter jets have been flying over the city of Kramatorsk in the Donetsk Region. “The hospitals were told to evacuate patients from the upper floors,” said a representative from the self-defense forces. 

On Wednesday a school and a kindergarten were shelled in Slavyansk. In the kindergarten at least 9 civilians were injured, including a 4-year old boy. 

A teacher from the targeted school said that the shell exploded right above the school hall, where children are usually gathered for festive events, and part of the roof “was simply blown away.” Luckily, no children were in the hall at the time. All the pupils and teachers were quickly evacuated to the basement.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*Ukraine would have been alot better off now and down the road if it joined this economic bloc. Instead, the IMF will bleed Ukraine dry and leave it an economic wasteland. - Mike


*Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan Sign Eurasian Union Treaty








ASTANA, May 29 (RIA Novosti) – The presidents of Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan have signed a treaty to create the Eurasian Economic Union (EAU), with a target date of January 1, 2015.

The binding treaty is expected to raise the three nations to a higher level of integration. The three countries have committed to guaranteeing the free movement of goods, services, capital and labor as well as the implementation of coordinated policies in key sectors including energy, industry, agriculture and transportation.

The accord was inked during Thursday’s session of the Supreme Eurasian Economic Council in Astana, Kazakhstan. The council regulates the Eurasian Economic Community created by several former Soviet states in the 1990s.

The agreement will finalize the establishment of the CIS’s largest common market, which is slated to become a new economic powerhouse.

Bids from other potential member states were also considered at the meeting, including from Armenia and Kyrgyzstan. The Armenian president today said his country hoped to sign the Eurasian Economic Union Treaty by June 15.

The Eurasian Economic Union was conceived of as an EU-style bloc aimed at promoting integration and free trade between its three member states, Russia, Kazakhstan and Belarus, with more countries to follow.


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## Spanish Lariato (Jul 26, 2011)

That are some bad news to the NATO's hegemony. Maybe they can sign a treaty with China and the ALBA countries. That would really put that imperialist bloc in trouble.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

You cant be an SS trooper without being an actual WW2 Hitler Nazi 

I also like how people seem to think that China and Russia are trying to form some kind of ANTI-west alliance

China's economy depends on exporting do-dads to as many nations as possible, both eastern and western 

Their infrastructure is very New-Dealish with tons of stuff being made but very little of it being used


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

By looking at the sheer deftness and dexterity of some of the pro-Russian forces, I can not come to any logical conclusion other than they are the recipient of some external funding and organisation. 

This is a chess war.


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## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

come on now, this is politics

everyone, and i mean everyone, is getting paid by someone


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

reDREDD said:


> come on now, this is politics
> 
> everyone, and i mean everyone, is getting paid by someone


In many respects, Ukraine is a proxy country for a Cold War that never ended.


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

> That are some bad news to the NATO's hegemony. Maybe they can sign a treaty with China and the ALBA countries. That would really put that imperialist bloc in trouble.


I agree, a Russia-China strategic defense alliance would be a massive strategic blunder by both Russia and China. It would immediately send the rest of East and Southeast Asia into the open arms of the United States (which they're going into anyway since China won't stop being stupid) and added along with increased European wariness of Russia (thanks, Vladimir! You were the only person who could make Europe think seriously about defense again and you did, you accomplished in one month what 30 years of US foreign policy couldn't) it would just be another example of idiot dictatorships thinking they can fight out of their weight. 

I also somehow doubt that the NATO alliance is very worried at the prospect of Venezuela, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Saint Lucia, Nicaragua, Ecuador, Dominica, Cuba, Bolivia and Antigua and Barbuda. Colombia could whip all those countries combined on its own, what do you think the US could do? They'd be the sprinkles on the Russia-China ice cream sundae alliance that already failed to beat NATO once. Or didn't you know that Russia and China were best buddies from 1949-1960 but it turned out they couldn't stand each other so much that they broke up the alliance in the early 60s and almost went to serious war war in 1969? China is more interested in eventually taking the Russian Far East away from Moscow than in propping up a declining Russia anyway...


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

According to some figures the Kiev junta's forces have taken a much bigger hit since ramping up terrorist operations than they will admit. Hopefully, the numbers in the report below are true and that most of those invaders killed were Right Sector National Guard troops.

*СЛАВА ГЕРОЯМ ДОНБАССА, СЛАВА!* 

- Mike

1,200 Ukrainian Soldiers Dead in Slaviansk Special Op – People's Mayor

RIGA, May 29 (RIA Novosti) – *About 1,200 Ukrainian army soldiers have been killed *during a special operation in Slaviansk, and *eight helicopters and 15 armored vehicles were destroyed*, Slaviansk people's mayor Vyacheslav Ponomaryov said Thursday.

"According to our information, the Ukrainian army has the following losses and damages: 1,200-1,300 people were killed, eight helicopters, 15 armored transport vehicles, and three [artillery] weapons destroyed. *They are suffering huge losses. I’m speaking only about Slaviansk,*" Ponomaryov said in an interview with the Latvian radio station Baltkom.

Acting President Oleksandr Turchynov confirmed Thursday the downing of a military helicopter had killed 14 Ukrainian servicemen, including a general. Soon after that, the Ukrainian National Guard clarified that 12, not 14 people were killed in the Mi-8 helicopter crash near Slaviansk.

The people’s mayor also noted that the self-defense forces of Slaviansk had lost about 200 people.

"About 200 were killed and 300 wounded," Ponomaryov specified.

Ponomaryov also mentioned that several civilians died and eight people were wounded yesterday.

The troops involved in the military operation in southeastern Ukraine began firing mortars at Slaviansk Tuesday at around noon local time. Several private homes were razed, including houses in the villages of Andreevka and Sergeevka in the city’s suburbs. Several dozen people were killed.

Alexei Pushkov, the head of the Russian Duma’s Committee on Foreign Affairs, wrote Wednesday that the Kiev interim authorities are lying when they claim the residential areas in eastern Ukraine are not being targeted by troops.

The active phase of the military operation has now been suspended, Ukraine's UNIAN news agency reported Thursday.


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## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

Despot said:


> By looking at the sheer deftness and dexterity of some of the pro-Russian forces, I can not come to any logical conclusion other than they are the recipient of some external funding and organisation.


This may be true, yet we know it is the case for some of the anti-Russian forces as well, particularly of the notorious variety who have helped to bring about the troubles, in one key case from the grave. The late Boris Berezovsky is an outstanding example, an avaricious oligarch whose ascension to power was directly aided by the Chechen mafia. Having been kicked out of Russia by Vladimir Putin, many of Berezovsky's ill-gained emoluments and possessions were seized and he subsequently spent the rest of his life plotting vengeance. He utilized his exorbitant wealth to erect a far-reaching confederacy of anti-Russian organizations, movements and operatives which were ceaselessly endeavoring to bring about regime change in Berezovsky's old home land.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

People's Mayor :lmao


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## Spanish Lariato (Jul 26, 2011)

Well, it is clear that China in the case of reaching an agreement with Russia will not stop his exports to other countries but that doesn't mean that some kind of deal wouldn't be plausible. Maybe once China become a full force first world power more countries can adhere to the alliance. Also let's not forget the evergrowing power that China has in Africa.
deepelemblues put it lightly but the rupture between China and USSR was due to the revisionism of the latter. I don't think it is no longer a problem since both countries are full fledged capitalists.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

DesolationRow said:


> This may be true, yet we know it is the case for some of the anti-Russian forces as well, particularly of the notorious variety who have helped to bring about the troubles, in one key case from the grave. The late Boris Berezovsky is an outstanding example, an avaricious oligarch whose ascension to power was directly aided by the Chechen mafia. Having been kicked out of Russia by Vladimir Putin, many of Berezovsky's ill-gained emoluments and possessions were seized and he subsequently spent the rest of his life plotting vengeance. He utilized his exorbitant wealth to erect a far-reaching confederacy of anti-Russian organizations, movements and operatives which were ceaselessly endeavoring to bring about regime change in Berezovsky's old home land.


I met Berezovsky a couple of years after Yeltsin and his Byelorussian and Ukrainian cronies illegally dissolved the Soviet Union. To put it simply, this is not a man that I desired to meet a second time.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Yatseniuk - Prime Minister??? :lmao 





At least there are some people in the West that understand what is going on in Ukraine. I'm sure that the retard Yatseniuk didn't expect the reception he got in Germany.

- Mike


30 May 2014, 14:17

Germans in protest against Yatsenyuk, call him terrorist

The Verkhovna Rada appointed Prime Minister of Ukraine, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, was booed at in Germany, where he arrived to participate in the Charlemagne Prize award ceremony to President of the European Council, Herman van Rompuy, Deutschlandfunk.de reports.

In Aachen, local residents gathered near the building, which hosts the award ceremony. They were holding posters and chanted slogans calling to put an end to the American influence in Ukraine.

In the video clip of the meeting, which appeared on YouTube, it can be heard that the protesters are chanting in turn: "*Yatsenyuk - terrorist*" and "*Shame on you*." The posters read: "*Kiev, hands off Donbass*," "*Stop fascism in Ukraine*,","*Mr. Yatsenyuk is a partner of the Nazis*."

Arseny Yatsenyuk is paying a two-day visit to Germany. The agenda of his trip includes participation in an international meeting on Kiev's gas debt, a meeting with German politicians and participation in the award ceremony of the Charlemagne Prize.
Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_...st-against-Yatsenyuk-call-him-terrorist-5201/

*Would anyone want this to be the Prime Minister of their country?* :faint:


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

I watched 3 minutes of RT today. It was all bashing US economy and praising Russia's new alliance with Belarus and Kazakhstan. Yeah, enough of RT today. Or ever.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

"Shame on You" is a pretty damn lame chant

Maybe its sounds better in German


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The British journalist who was captured by Right Sector and held hostage along with two Russian journalists participates in this segment of Cross Talk that just came out today.


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## Muerte al fascismo (Feb 3, 2008)

The Manowarrior said:


> I watched 3 minutes of RT today. It was all bashing US economy and praising Russia's new alliance with Belarus and Kazakhstan. Yeah, enough of RT today. Or ever.


RT has the occasional interesting piece, but usually it acts as the Russian Government's unofficial spokesman. I accept that every media has some form of bias, but Russia Today takes it to another level, that at times I wonder if its just satire. Unfortunately its impossible to take RT as a reliable source of information. There is no room for critical thought, particularly concerning any critic of Russia.

Personally I think Russia has made a mistake by angering the EU member states. Its now stuck being, primarily a resource-based economy, where China hold all the cards. Its technological base needs the west for it to thrive

Russia attempts to diversify may now prove to be impossible in the short and medium term.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Muerte al fascismo said:


> RT has the occasional interesting piece, but usually it acts as the Russian Government's unofficial spokesman. I accept that every media has some form of bias, but Russia Today takes it to another level, that at times I wonder if its just satire. Unfortunately its impossible to take RT as a reliable source of information. There is no room for critical thought, particularly concerning any critic of Russia.
> 
> Personally I think Russia has made a mistake by angering the EU member states. Its now stuck being, primarily a resource-based economy, where China hold all the cards. Its technological base needs the west for it to thrive
> 
> Russia attempts to diversify may now prove to be impossible in the short and medium term.


Regarding RT, what you say is true to some extent. However, where else are you going to get any information on what is happening in Ukraine? The EU and US news media is totally biased and one sided from the opposite end. If you just read western news sources you would think that the government in Kiev is democratic, that Right Sector is no more than a bunch of boy scouts, and that Russia is responsible for the chaos, not the US backed, if not engineered, insurgency and coup.

Seriously, how much critical thought is in the news reporting and editorials of the main stream western media - virtually zero, nada, ничего. The BBC, CNN, Fox News, ABC, NBC, etc. are in lock step demonizing Russia and backing the U.S. whose only interest is in expanding its hegemony and establishing NATO bases in Ukraine. Washington could care less about the Ukrainian people.

Regarding the EU, my feelings are just the opposite. The EU has made a mistake being in league with the US in Ukraine and pushing Russia to the point where it feels that it has to retaliate and defend its interests in the region on its borders.

Thanks to Yeltsin in the decade of the 1990s Russia let its technology stagnate and became a resource based economy. However, the base is still there for developing and supplying its own technological needs. 

That fact coupled with the Customs Union with Belarus and Kazakhstan (and now the Eurasian Economic Union which brings the three of them even closer) will ease the transition away from the EU. 

Based on the reporting of the western news media, the western person's conception of Belarus is that of a rural cesspool. Nothing could be further from the truth. Even during Soviet times it was a high tech republic with a highly educated population, and called the "workshop of the USSR." 

The natural gas deal with China will offset to a great degree export dependence on the EU countries. 

Given what the U.S. has perpetrated in Ukraine, Russia has no choice but to wean itself off of trade dependence with the West in general, and aim towards building a more self-sufficient economy within its own economic sphere.

- Mike


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> Regarding RT, what you say is true to some extent. However, *where else are you going to get any information on what is happening in Ukraine? * The EU and US news media is totally biased and one sided from the opposite end. If you just read western news sources you would think that the government in Kiev is democratic, that Right Sector is no more than a bunch of boy scouts, and that Russia is responsible for the chaos, not the US backed, if not engineered, insurgency and coup.
> 
> Seriously, how much critical thought is in the news reporting and editorials of the main stream western media - virtually zero, nada, ничего.  The BBC, CNN, Fox News, ABC, NBC, etc. are in lock step demonizing Russia and backing the U.S. whose only interest is in expanding its hegemony and establishing NATO bases in Ukraine. Washington could care less about the Ukrainian people.


What you're saying about the American and generally the western media is very true and I agree with that. However, you don't seem to understand that it's the same exact thing on the other side of the former iron curtain. RT and co. are just as one-sided and biased in their reports on the crisis and shouldn't really be used as a source for news, any more than CNN and the other western-minded sources.

So the answer to the bolded question is nowhere. As sad as it is.



Batko10 said:


> Regarding the EU, my feelings are just the opposite. The EU has made a mistake being in league with the US in Ukraine and pushing Russia to the point where it feels that it has to retaliate and defend its interests in the region on its borders.
> - Mike


From the Finnish viewpoint, I agree. We are really, really dependent on trade with Russia and the bad blood that's growing between them and the EU will really hurt us on the long run. Especially after we join NATO. (sadly it seems to be only a matter of time anymore)


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

> Maybe once China become a full force first world power more countries can adhere to the alliance. Also let's not forget the evergrowing power that China has in Africa.


Who? That's the problem with aggressive dictatorships, it's hard to get reliable allies outside of other aggressive dictatorships.

And China can have all the influence in Africa it wants, Africa isn't going to be geopolitically relevant for at least a century save in terms of immigration from Africa. The strongest countries in Africa are all buddies with the US and/or Europe anyway in a way China can't match, unless China also wants to spend 700 billion a year on its military so it can give out billions in free military aid to countries like Egypt and Ethiopia. 



> deepelemblues put it lightly but the rupture between China and USSR was due to the revisionism of the latter. I don't think it is no longer a problem since both countries are full fledged capitalists.


The rupture first started over Russian indignation over China acting like Russia had an obligation to turn China into a developed country with Russia footing the bill, and the initial Russian revisionism was saying that nuclear war was a bad thing and that WW3 was not inevitable. Mao didn't jive with that ish. 

China-Russia tension post-China-going-Red was about who was going to be in charge of the alliance, that hasn't changed. Russia won't take a backseat to China and vice-versa. And there are influential Chinese who are butthurt over Russia taking the Far East away from China in the 19th century. There's something like 13 million Russians on one side of the border and 90 million Chinese on the other. Chinese immigration to the Far East will eventually give it a Chinese majority if the trends continue (this is decades and decades away). But there's plenty of tension or possible tension or repressed tension between Moscow and Beijing in the meantime. 

Without Russian submarines China stands zero chance in a war against American/Japanese/British/Australian submarines. And without (future) Chinese aircraft carriers Russia stands zero chance against American carrier battle groups. People can talk about supermissiles and supertorpedoes all they want, the US Navy is putting actual lasers and railguns on its ships starting this year and the West has a ridiculous lead in both offensive and defensive technology (not just weapons, scanning and fire-control tech and shit like that). It isn't just a dick waving contest, relative military capabilities weigh heavily on countries' geopolitics.


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## LOVEnGRACE999 (Apr 8, 2014)

The civil unrest in eastern Europe is just a sample of what's to come here in the United States.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Spanish Lariato said:


> Well, it is clear that China in the case of reaching an agreement with Russia will not stop his exports to other countries but that doesn't mean that some kind of deal wouldn't be plausible. Maybe once China become a full force first world power more countries can adhere to the alliance. Also let's not forget the evergrowing power that China has in Africa.
> deepelemblues put it lightly but the rupture between China and USSR was due to the revisionism of the latter. I don't think it is no longer a problem since both countries are full fledged capitalists.


Nikita Khrushchev's "Secret Speech" followed by his revisionist policy of "peaceful coexistence" started the problems with China. Prior to that the Soviet Union was actively assisting China industrialize and build up its economy. Stalin was highly respected in China.

None of the above is germane to Sino-Russian relations today, since Russia is capitalist and China is "communist" in name only. With 40 million people in Siberia and the rebuilding of the military since the Yeltsin depression, including the border troops, Russia is pretty secure in holding on to its territory. Just as important is China's realization that it is to its advantage to work with Russia. The huge natural gas deal the two giants signed last week would seem to indicate that they are on the right track.

The Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) has been gaining steam over the last decade and is now involved in military as well as economic endeavors. Russia, China, Kazakhstan, Tadjikistan, Kyrgyzstan, and Uzbekistan make up the SCO with Belarus as an observer.

It looks like the old grudges have faded away and more nations than just Russia and China realize that they have to work together to combat the "New World Order" of the United States and the West.

- Mike


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

I think that Europe is Wolfpac and the US is Hollywood but I am willing to bend on that 

I prefer red and black anyways


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## MikeTO (May 17, 2013)

LOVEnGRACE999 said:


> The civil unrest in eastern Europe is just a sample of what's to come here in the United States.


Why?


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

stevefox1200 said:


> I think that Europe is Wolfpac and the US is Hollywood but I am willing to bend on that
> 
> I prefer red and black anyways


And NWO (the conspiracy theory) is the creative team aka Vince Russo. Which means that they're gonna fuck up everything and then WCW (Earth) will be taken over by WWF (another planet (aliens)). Yup, we're doomed.


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## Spanish Lariato (Jul 26, 2011)

deepelemblues said:


> Who? That's the problem with aggressive dictatorships, it's hard to get reliable allies outside of other aggressive dictatorships.
> 
> And China can have all the influence in Africa it wants, Africa isn't going to be geopolitically relevant for at least a century save in terms of immigration from Africa. The strongest countries in Africa are all buddies with the US and/or Europe anyway in a way China can't match, unless China also wants to spend 700 billion a year on its military so it can give out billions in free military aid to countries like Egypt and Ethiopia.


Don't act like NATO is not agressive and is a haven of peace and democracy. We don't know when africans countries will rise but we do know that Africa is the continent with more resources of world and that somehow is going to payoff in a blocs clash. It's clear that Africa will be increasingly important. If only the NATO hadn't murdered Gaddafi and his project of an Africa united and using the gold dinar...




deepelemblues said:


> The rupture first started over Russian indignation over China acting like Russia had an obligation to turn China into a developed country with Russia footing the bill, and the initial Russian revisionism was saying that nuclear war was a bad thing and that WW3 was not inevitable. Mao didn't jive with that ish.
> 
> China-Russia tension post-China-going-Red was about who was going to be in charge of the alliance, that hasn't changed. Russia won't take a backseat to China and vice-versa. And there are influential Chinese who are butthurt over Russia taking the Far East away from China in the 19th century. There's something like 13 million Russians on one side of the border and 90 million Chinese on the other. Chinese immigration to the Far East will eventually give it a Chinese majority if the trends continue (this is decades and decades away). But there's plenty of tension or possible tension or repressed tension between Moscow and Beijing in the meantime.
> 
> Without Russian submarines China stands zero chance in a war against American/Japanese/British/Australian submarines. And without (future) Chinese aircraft carriers Russia stands zero chance against American carrier battle groups. People can talk about supermissiles and supertorpedoes all they want, the US Navy is putting actual lasers and railguns on its ships starting this year and the West has a ridiculous lead in both offensive and defensive technology (not just weapons, scanning and fire-control tech and shit like that). It isn't just a dick waving contest, relative military capabilities weigh heavily on countries' geopolitics.


That's not what happened, China didn't break with URRS because "they think nuclear war was a bad thing".


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

It would seem that China is coming out more aggresively in support of the Russian position on Ukraine. I think that one would have to be blind not to see the very high possibility of the world becoming divided into two camps in another Cold War over the next decade. 

If the East doesn't take action it will eventually be devoured by an ever expanding NATO and U.S. empire. The U.S. attempt at expansion into Ukraine appears to be the "red line." - Mike

1 June 2014, 15:41

Chinese military official speaks of need to stop punitive operation against civilians in east Ukraine

*Deputy Chief of the General Staff of the People's Liberation Army of China Lt. Gen. Wang Guanzhong *at a meeting with Russian Deputy Defense Minister Anatoly Antonov at the 13th international conference on security in Asia *supported the Russian stance on Ukraine.

*
"During the discussion of topical international security problems separate attention was paid to the situation in Ukraine. *The head of the Chinese delegation expressed support for the Russian position* and voiced serious concern about the developments in Southeastern Ukraine *stressing the importance of stopping Kiev's punitive operation against civilians,"* a report of the Russian Defense Ministry press service received by Interfax on Sunday says.

China blames toppling of legitimate gov't for Ukrainian crisis

The toppling of the legitimate Ukrainian authorities by Maidan protesters is the main cause of the Ukrainian crisis, Chinese Deputy Foreign Minister Cheng Guoping told Russian reporters in Beijing on Tuesday.

"Concerning the ongoing violence in Ukraine, I think this is the result of the toppling of the legitimate authorities of this country in the course of disturbances and provocations staged on Maidan," the deputy minister said.

"This is the direct cause of the crisis," Cheng said.

Another reason for the current situation in Ukraine is the Western policy, he noted.

"*External influence, primarily, that of the United States and Western countries which are trying for force Ukraine to follow the development path of Western nations, cannot be ignored either*," the senior diplomat said.

Since the moment the country proclaimed its independence, "*Ukraine has been torn between two paths: Western-style development and the path, which meets its national specifications," *he said.

"This has an extremely negative effect on the stability and economic development of Ukraine."

"The Ukrainian issue is an internal affair of Ukraine, which needs to be resolved by the Ukrainians themselves. We are opposed to any forms of external interference," the Chinese deputy foreign minister stressed. He added that the Ukrainian problem should be resolved on the basis of the Geneva agreements of April 17, Interfax reports.

*West's sanctions against Russia not to help settle Ukrainian crisis - top Chinese diplomat
*
The sanctions imposed by the West on Russia over the Ukrainian events will not help normalize the situation and settle the crisis in the country, Chinese Deputy Foreign Minister Cheng Guoping told Russian reporters in Beijing on Tuesday.

"We believe that the introduction of sanctions against Russia by certain members of the international community is unable to help resolve the Ukrainian crisis," the diplomat said.

Cheng reaffirmed China's readiness to make further efforts to help bring the situation in Ukraine back to normal by political methods.

"As before, the Chinese side is ready to play a constructive role in the cause of resolving the Ukrainian issue by political methods based on the principles of objectivity and justice and in compliance with international law," he said, Interfax reports.

Legitimate interests of all Ukrainians should be respected - top Chinese diplomat

China's Vice Foreign Minister Cheng Guoping said "domestic affairs in Ukraine should be settled by the Ukrainian people," as he responded to TASS request to comment on the results of the referendum in Ukraine's Donetsk and Lugansk regions.

"I believe that the referendum in Ukraine are the internal affair of that country. China's foreign policy course implies non-interference in the domestic policy of foreign states," Cheng Guoping said. "The legitimate interests of all peoples in Ukraine should be respected."

On Monday, the Chinese Foreign Ministry said the settlement of the Ukrainian issue should "meet the just, legitimate and reasonable demands of the parties comprehensively, in a balanced way and in full measure."

*The Ukrainian crisis must be settled "on the basis of law and order", and the parties need "to settle their disagreements properly*," Chinese diplomats said.

On May 11, Ukraine's Donetsk and Lugansk regions held referendums on the status of these regions amid the ongoing punitive operation launched by the Kiev authorities. According to the Central Election Commission, some 80% of the electorate took part in the voting in the Donetsk region and approximately as many in the Lugansk region.

The referendums were held in connection with the declaration of Donetsk People's Republic and Lugansk People's Republic in April. Independence of the provinces was supported, respectively, by 89.7 percent and 96.2 percent of voters.

Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_...ation-against-civilians-in-east-Ukraine-6320/


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

1 June 2014, 12:41

US/NATO/EU nazi thugs continue killing Ukrainians







[/URL][/IMG]

There is a school of thought that has it that the elites in the US foreign policy establishment do not understand, and in fact are completely ignorant of the peoples of the world and in particular in the countries where they have launched regime change, color revolution and other operations. The US backed armed coup d’état in Ukraine has taken this egregious inexcusable ignorance to the next level and makes it doubtful that such a contention is true. Ukraine has shown the world that not only is the US completely out of touch with the peoples of the world but in fact has proven to anyone who may have had a doubt that *the US not only has no interest in the people being affected and killed by its policies but in fact is completely contemptuous of anyone that is not of use to their waning empire*.

*Ukraine Continues Killing its Own People*

This past week saw some of the worst violence to date near Slavyansk as self-defense units of the Donetsk People's Republic continue to defend themselves and the civilian population against a heightened military operation that has been raging against the populations of eastern Ukraine.

It is very difficult to ascertain the exact number of Ukrainian civilians and self-defense forces that have been killed by the nazi junta but the numbers could easily be in the high hundreds if not already in the thousands. 

Unlike the Maidan last winter which saw exaggerated death counts and constant reporting by the West and the junta as they attempted to demonize President Yanukovych and accuse him of war ordering the murder of civilians (a complete and total fabrication which saw the junta employing snipers to try to place the blame on the president who had been forced to leave the country), *the western media and the "authorities" in Kiev are silent when it comes to the Ukrainian citizens they are systematically attempting to eliminate in eastern Ukraine*.

The characterization by the junta and its western backers of the punitive operation against the civilians in the east as an "anti-terrorist operation" continues to ring hollow as the Ukrainian military continues to use heavy artillery and launch indiscriminate bombing runs and air strikes against targets such as daycare centers, schools and hospitals. *Among the innocent civilian dead are women and children, whose only crime was to be in the way of the junta's bullets.
*
*Screaming Silence, Media Operations, Anti-Russian War Propaganda*

*As with the atrocities in Odessa and Mariupol the western media has largely been silent blindly supporting the narrative set out by Washington that no matter what the nazi junta does it is good *and those opposed to it are evil and anything can be done to them with impunity. As the body count continues to rise and the crimes committed by the junta increase this silence is more and more having the quality of criminal complicity as the so-called Fourth Estate continues to be a part to covering up and white washing war crimes and it has become obvious in a conscience participant in actively promoting War propaganda against Russia.

The Ministry of Truth and the Orwellian way that the media has managed to demonize Russia and transfer the blame for events in Ukraine that are fully and completely the fault of the US and its "machine" is stunning and unprecedented in its scope and is clearly in preparation for something much worse than merely placing NATO missiles 5 minutes from Moscow.

Clearly, the US is attempting to start a war with Russia by provoking Russia to defend itself and its interests. *Demonizing Russia and marginalizing anything and anyone with the label "pro-Russian" for the situation in Ukraine serves the interest of the US/NATO war machine *as it prepares to carry out what no sane person would do, namely bring the world to the brink of World War III. It also deflects the criminal liability of the West and its agents for destabilizing and destroying yet another country that never threatened the West in the first place.

*US Using nazi Strategy - General Leonid Ivashov*

Russian General Ivashov put it very clearly in an interview in February for the site KM.RU (English): "Apparently they (officials of the European Union and U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry) have dedicated themselves, and continue to do so, to deeply and thoroughly studying the doctrine of Dr. Goebbels. *They present everything backwards from reality. It is one of the formulas which Nazi propaganda employed most successfully: They accuse the party that is defending itself, of aggression*. What is happening in Ukraine and Syria is a project of the West, a new type of war: in both places you see a clear anti-Russian approach, and as is well known, wars today begin with psychological and information warfare operations."

*More Regions Declare Independence, Right to Self-Determination*

If the goal of the US is the destruction of Ukraine as a single viable state then it has succeeded well. With Crimea gone, Donetsk and Lugansk holding referendums and proclaiming themselves "People's Republics" with more than eight other regions set to do so, Ukraine will never again be a unified entity. As Russia stated repeatedly Federalization would have saved Ukraine but the junta has obtusely refused to consider this simple fact and blindly continues going down a road to self-destruction while being led by the NATO/EU carrot.

In 2012 the United Nations once again underlined the importance of Articles 1 and 2 of the UN Charter which relates to the right of self-determination: "Article 1 (2) establishes that one of the main purposes of the United Nations, and thus the Security Council, is to develop friendly international relations based on respect for the "principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples". The case studies in this section cover instances where the Security Council has discussed situations with a bearing on the principle of self-determination and the right of peoples to decide their own government, which may relate to the questions of independence, autonomy, referenda, elections, and the legitimacy of governments."

Under the 67th General Assembly of the United Nations the Third Committee determined the following: "Universal recognition of the inalienable right to self-determination was the most effective way the global community could guarantee protection of fundamental freedoms…"

"*Whether this right is taken away by military intervention, aggression, occupation, or even exploitation, the world cannot condone its deprivation from any peoples in any region*."

"All States facing questions of self-determination must include broader ethnic and linguistic groups in decision-making processes…"

*NATO Head Rasmussen Ignores Self-Determination*

This respect for the fundamental right to self-determination is in striking contrast to the world's number one proponent of war and death and the US' number one tool for the projection of US hegemony by force, NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen who told none other than CNN's Christiane Amanpour on May 12 the following: *"Referendums by separatists in Ukraine, such as May 11 in Donetsk, don't count. These referendums are illegal; they are organized in a chaotic manner with dubious and ambiguous questions."However to the West the presidential "election" does count. Unbelievable*.

*Geneva Conventions*

*Protocol I and Protocol II of the Geneva Conventions most directly apply to the situation in Ukraine*. While Protocol II applies to internal armed conflicts Protocol I which deals with international conflicts would also apply if only due to the introduction of CIA/Greystone forces into the conflict.

Protocol I has 102 articles which should be studied in detail but overall it states: "*Articles 51 and 54 outlaw indiscriminate attacks on civilian populations, and destruction of food, water, and other materials needed for survival.* Indiscriminate attacks include directly attacking civilian (non-military) targets, but also using technology such as biological weapons, nuclear weapons and land mines, whose scope of destruction cannot be limited. *A total war that does not distinguish between civilian and military targets is considered a war crime.*"

These articles apply to Ukraine as *the junta's forces continue to bomb schools, hospitals and to date strictly civilian targets. *The scope of the junta's war against the populations of eastern Ukraine can also be classified as a "total war".

"Articles 76 and 77, 15 and 79 provide special protections for women, children, and civilian medical personnel, and provide measures of protection for journalists."

Women and children are being killed indiscriminately in eastern Ukraine, medical personnel are not being allowed proper access to victims as was clearest in Odessa and journalists are being kidnapped, tortured and assassinated all over the country. It is important to note that conscripts into the Ukrainian post junta military must be ready to shoot unarmed women. *A questionnaire used by the Ukrainian military asks: "Are you ready to shoot women?"
*
"Articles 43 and 44 clarify the military status of members of guerrilla forces. *Combatant and prisoner of war status is granted to members of dissident forces when under the command of a central authority*. Such combatants cannot conceal their allegiance; they must be recognizable as combatants while preparing for or during an attack."

While these articles apply to the Donetsk Self-Defense Forces who are clearly visible and readily identifiable, it takes the right to "prisoner of war" status away from the Right Sector and the nazi militias who purposefully obfuscate their identities and are not organized and directly led by a single centralized authority, although they do coordinate.

"*Article 85 states that it is a war crime to use one of the protective emblems recognized by the Geneva Conventions to deceive the opposing forces (perfidy)."

The recent use by the junta of an attack helicopter with United Nations markings is clearly a very obvious and irrefutable act of perfidy.
*
"Articles 17 and 81 authorize the ICRC, national societies, or other impartial humanitarian organizations to provide assistance to the victims of war."

*The junta's forces have continuously blocked humanitarian workers access to hostages and victims of the violence*. This has occurred everywhere in the country. Currently busloads of children are not being allowed to flee Donetsk by the Ukrainian forces. Although they stopped setting busloads of civilians on fire, as they did before the Crimean referendum, the junta's forces nonetheless are making it difficult for non-combatants, especially women and children, to flee the war zone.

"Article 90 states that "The High Contracting Parties may at the time of signing, ratifying or acceding to the Protocol, or at any other subsequent time, declare that they recognize ipso facto and without special agreement, in relation to any other High Contracting Party accepting the same obligation, the competence of the [International Fact-Finding] Commission to enquire into allegations by such other Party, as authorized by this Article."

74 states have made such a declaration the US has not.

Protocol II most importantly states:

"Persons taking no active part in hostilities should be treated humanely (including military persons who have ceased to be active as a result of sickness, injury, or detention)."

"The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for."

*Currently junta forces are not allowing bodies to be removed from the areas around the airport in Donetsk and those who are attempting to reach their fallen comrades are coming under sniper fire and being killed*.

*The International Committee of the Red Cross*

Although largely silent regarding the killing going on in Ukraine the Red Cross has in the past attempted to save the lives of, and protect the rights of, civilians in war zones: "Under the 1949 Geneva Conventions, collective punishment is a war crime. By collective punishment, the drafters of the Geneva Conventions had in mind the reprisal killings of World War I and World War II. In the First World War, during the Rape of Belgium, the Germans executed Belgian villagers in mass retribution for resistance activity. In World War II, the Germans carried out a form of collective punishment to suppress resistance. Entire villages or towns or districts were held responsible for any resistance activity that occurred in them.[3] The conventions, to counter this, reiterated the principle of individual responsibility. The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) Commentary to the conventions states that parties to a conflict often would resort to "intimidatory measures to terrorize the population" in hopes of preventing hostile acts, but such practices "strike at guilty and innocent alike. They are opposed to all principles based on humanity and justice."

"In some conflicts civilians have been specifically targeted and subjected to terrible atrocities, ignoring the very basis of the Geneva Conventions, respect for the human person. It is for this reason that the ICRC continues to press States to respect and ensure respect for the principles of IHL, especially the protection of civilians."

What the Right Sector and the nazi junta have done can no doubt be classified as a campaign of terror against the entire Ukrainian population.

*"President" Poroshenko Continues the Killing, Moments of Silence*

Even before being officially inaugurated the new "president" of Ukraine, Petr Poroshenko, has said he will continue the "operations' in the east of the country, underlining the complete and total disregard for the civilian lives that the junta is destroying. Poroshenko will continue the assault on the Ukrainian people started by Turchynov, Yatsenyuk, Tyagnybok and the Right Sector and is therefore guilty of war crimes as well.

This past week beady eyed fascist "acting-president" Turchynov called for a moment of silence for the crew of a helicopter that was downed as it was engaged in operations against civilians and self-defense forces in Donetsk. Turchynov and other junta officials have never called for a moment of silence for the civilians that are being killed further underlining their complicity in events such as Donetsk and Mariupol. And as with the sniper attacks on the Maidan no investigation has been carried out nor can one be expected to be carried out.

*US Criminal Disregard for Human Lives*

This complete and total lack of any kind of compassion or human understanding by the US Government, its top officials and the organizations and bodies that are responsible for advancing the interests of the US and the "West", is not only in complete and total contradiction to the unilaterally and self-arrogated role of "world's policeman" and "defender of democracy" (*under the banner of which the US has destroyed and destabilized country after country*) but is also unacceptable and reprehensible from a moral standpoint and contrary to all accepted international norms and standards set out in respected international instruments such as the Geneva Conventions and the UN Charter.

The armed coup d'état in Ukraine has further shown that the US is guilty of having and operating with egregious and reckless disregard for human lives and the wellbeing of civilians and those least able to defend themselves. As lives are being lost among the civilian population in Ukraine this issue must be brought to the forefront although the complete and total disregard for international laws and norms regarding sovereignty and the territorial integrity of countries are also being violated by the US Government on a monumental scale.

While many US based pundits, journalists and specialists are accusing the US Government and its officials of ignorance and callous disregard as to the consequences of their "operations" I would argue that it is much worse than even criminal negligence on a global scale. I would argue that the CIA/Nuland/Kerry/Obama and all of those responsible for everything that the US Government has done in its campaign to establish global hegemony during the last 20 years (and even going back further) *know exactly what they are doing, are aware they are in violation of international law and quite simply just do not care*.

*Obama's New Endless War*

This crass and callous exceptionalist attitude and complete disregard for the millions of people that the US has been directly responsible for killing was once again underlined during the past week by US President Obama in a speech to West Point graduates. *Obama ridiculously told the latest generation of US storm troopers that the US was an exceptional nation and would continue to intervene around the world because, as he put it, if the US doesn't then no one would*. He forgot to mention that such US style "interventions" are illegal and that the reason no one else does is because they respect the rule of international law, which of course is a distraction to be ignored by the US and Obama.

According to the World Socialist Website *Obama has now phased the endless "War on Terror" into an endless "War to Promote US Interests"*. Something the Dick Cheney Project for a New American Century called the establishment of global US hegemony through the use of force.

The World Socialist Website wrote: Obama: "… asserts a policy of permanent and global war in pursuit of the interests of the US financial elite. The media distortion is driven, on the one hand, by the partisan motives of Obama's Republican rivals, who seek to portray him as weak-kneed, and, on the other, by the support from a wealthy and privileged ‘liberal' elite for wars of aggression waged under the banners of ‘human rights' and ‘democracy'."

*Ignorance is No Excuse*

As anyone who has ever been to the US or had dealing with the US Government or its authorities knows, lack of knowledge of its Draconian Laws and Regulations is no excuse to prevent one being arrested or persecuted if one is targeted. Hence even if the US at some time in the future (perhaps at Nuremberg type trials against the Washington planners?) claims that they did not know the Right Sector was a nazi group and that by supporting them they would cause the deaths of thousands, ignorance is no excuse. *The US is directly responsible for what we are seeing in Ukraine*.

*Operation Ukraine*

After the so called "presidential elections" in Ukraine, elections which even the junta was forced to declare did not include the participation of more than 20 regions, a congratulatory note should be made to former NATO Ambassador and advisor to Dick (torture memos) Cheney, Victoria Nuland and the architects of Banderstan. They are many but bear with me as we recall who they are: The latest manifestation of OTPOR, the center for Applied Nonviolent Action and Strategies (CANVAS) and its head Srdja Popovic who has ties with Stratford and the CIA; CIA front USAID and all of its NGOs in Ukraine; Swedish Foreign Minister Carl Bildt and Polish Foreign Minister Radosław Sikorski as well as EU foreign policy head Catherine Ashton (who thought is was a bad idea to investigate the Maidan snipers); billionaire George Soros and his International Renaissance Foundation; eBay founder Pierre Omidyar and his Omidyar Network; the National Endowment for Democracy, which is funded by the US Congress; key NGOs–Chesno, Center UA and Stop Censorship, and National Endow.ment for Democ.racy, funded largely by the US Congress; Exxon Oil and Chevron to whom Victoria Nuland gave an accounting in December of 2013 and finally Nuland's husband leading neo-conservative hawk Robert Kagan and all of the neocons behind the scenes.

*Strange Snowden Connection*

In researching for this article I came across a very curious connection to Edward Snowden and Pierre Omidyar. According to Pando Daily Pierre Omidyar now has control over the complete Snowden files after spending a mind-boggling quarter of a billion dollars to buy out reporters Glenn Greenwald and Laura Poitras.

The fact that a key player in Operation Ukraine now has complete control of Snowden's NSA leaks is in fact stunning, although I am sure the argument will be made that it is not related. This fact should have come to light from Edward Snowden himself, who continues to speak to western corporate controlled media outlets while shunning the media in the country that is protecting him, but alas Snowden has said nothing.

*Conclusion*

Operation Ukraine has had one benefit which cannot be understated both for the international community and for all citizens of the world brave enough to look outside of the confines of the western media box. *Namely it has shown the institutionalized disregard for sovereignty and the lengths the West will go to meet their geopolitical objectives, including the killing of millions of people*. It has also shown that the very ideas of democracy, rule of law and self-determination are merely abstract concepts for the west and lastly it has shown that *the US will ally with anyone, including murderous nazi thugs if such a union can help it advance its goals*.

*Logical Consequence of Operation Ukraine*

There is enough here to finally cause a true international outcry to end the global imperialist ambitions of the US and its allies. The logical solution can only be the formation of an international body that will finally reign in the United States and all of its illegality. This was have to be a body outside of the structure of the United Nations since as we saw by the Nuland dialogue with Ukrainian Ambassador Pyatt, *even the UN head Ban Ki-Moon can be called on to participate in "gluing together" the overthrow of governments*.

*Countries Destroyed by the United States*

The following is a list of countries where the US has organized coup d'états, supported revolutions, overthrown governments, invaded, annexed, supported groups or forces who overthrew or attempted to overthrow governments or outright executed the leaders.

*Afghanistan, Albania, Angola, Argentina, Bolivia, Bosnia, Brazil, Cambodia, Chile, China, Colombia, Colorado, Congo, Cuba, Detroit, Dominican Republic, Egypt, El Salvador, Germany, Greece, Grenada, Guam, Guatemala, Haiti, Hawaii, Honduras, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Korea, Kuwait, Laos, Lebanon, Liberia, Libya, Macedonia, Mexico, Nicaragua, Oman, Pakistan, Panama, Philippines, Puerto Rico, Russia, Samoa, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, South Dakota, Sudan, Syria, Turkey, Ukraine, Uruguay, USSR, Venezuela, Vietnam, Virgin Islands, Yemen, Yugoslavia and Zaire (Congo).*

What they have done and are doing to Native Americans might also be added to the list as the continuing genocide of the indigenous peoples is the foundation of endemic "American" racism and exceptionalism.

*Final Solution*

Disband NATO, prohibit the US from having military bases around the world and force the US to disarm.



The views and opinions expressed here are my own. I can be reached at [email protected].
Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/2014_06_01/US-NATO-EU-nazi-thugs-continue-killing-Ukrainians-8636/


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

tl;dr :lel


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

You claim that you are just the messenger and just posting the truth and then you pull a massive opinion piece that literally says the US and NATO are full of Nazi's and need to disband 

Are you fucking kidding me 

This Nazi shit has reached its ststupidity peak 

Nazi is not code word for "person you dislike"

Nazi is not code word for "anti-Semite"

Nazi is not code word for "Fascist"

Fuck most of the goddamn Nazi groups are made up of demo graphics that the Nazis hated 

The WW2 Nazi were a very specific group of people with a very specific goal and ideas 

With the expectation of some weird old men who live in a mansion in the hills of South America there are no more "real" Nazi's

Their party is dead, there ideology is dead

The "Nazi's" are glorified terror groups at best and street gangs at worst with ideas that scatter shot of different peoples thoughts mixed with racist leanings 

Russia has their dumbass "War on Terror" but theirs is a "War on Fascism" 

They see fucking fascists in the goddamn walls who are out the kill them cause "LOL EVILZ" 

I've read people online from Serbia who swore that Hitler is a respected person in Europe

We paint each other like fucking morons and so many people swallow the same bullshit "cause its not from the US"

Is the situation in Ukraine bad, yes

Does the situation indicate that NATO is going to form the forth reich and invade and kill and rape poor Russian kids, no

Iraq took the wind out the US sails on the home front where any mention of terrorism (even legit cases) causes the public to roll their eyes but its seems like many eastern Europeans get frothing at the mouth the fight DA FACISTZ like how the US wanted to fight TERROR

Its reached to point where Russian politicians and news have bounce between doing real shit, which pisses people off, and calling other nations facist to boost national pride so their people ignore the other real shit they are doing 

Your supposed to learn from other peoples mistakes but its seems like ever nation needs its own Vietnam, its own Iraq to understand that fighting a concept is goddamn impossible

You will win the first battle, you will win them all but you will lose the war

Unless you salt the land you are trying to help the weeds will grow


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

stevefox1200 said:


> This Nazi shit has reached its ststupidity peak
> 
> Nazi is not code word for "person you dislike"
> 
> ...


Gee, you seem more concerned with the original Nazis of Germany being defamed by the neo-Nazi groups that can't live up to their standards of brutality and inhumanity.

Right Sector and Svoboda are political/military organizations that profess to have the same ideology as the German Nazis of the 1930s and 1940s. They said that they are Nazis, not me or a Russian source. 

I can see that you're upset because these groups are making the originators of Nazism look bad. However, don't worry. They've burned people alive, murdered dozens of unarmed civilians trying to vote in a referendum, and are now shelling kindergartens, orphanages, and hospitals. I'm sure that they will live up to their name.

- Mike


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## Dib Da GREEK/CREEP/FALSE DETECTIVE (May 12, 2013)

Why on earth is this thread still going? Serious question.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Dib said:


> Why on earth is this thread still going? Serious question.


Because one particular person just won't stop spreading his propaganda and stating his point of view as a fact.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Dib said:


> Why on earth is this thread still going? Serious question.


It's still going, because the U.S. backed junta in Kiev is continuing to kill innocent people who just don't want to be part of their illegitimate state.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Now you see what I'm talking about?


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

:lel :lol :lmao :lol :lel

A guy who lives in America and hates America, using RT footage, using words like 'scumbag', 'whore' 'thug' to refer to American government, accusing Obama f engineering Ukraine events, calling Putin a victim, calling Western media 'whore'. Batko, I may have just found your soulmate.

Though, props to the guy for not calling them Nazis. That would be completely retarded.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> :lel :lol :lmao :lol :lel
> 
> A guy who lives in America and hates America, using RT footage, using words like 'scumbag', 'whore' 'thug' to refer to American government, accusing Obama f engineering Ukraine events, calling Putin a victim, calling Western media 'whore'. Batko, I may have just found your soulmate.
> 
> Though, props to the guy for not calling them Nazis. That would be completely retarded.


The guy thinks he is a stand up comic doing a routine in Vegas, but he brings up alot of good points. :lol 

After the retard Yatsiniuk was booed and whistled down in Germany, I believe that there are still people in the West who see the truth. The guy in the video is an odd duck, but he pretty much called it. :agree: 

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The U.S. backed Kiev junta is now using cluster bombs on the* city center *in Lugansk and continuing to kill civilians with impunity. 

The British commentator in the video below made an excellent point that if the government of Venezuela or Belarus fired on their own civilians the West would be up in arms about it. However, there is dead silence on the part of the Western media regarding the atrocities against civilians committed by the Kiev junta. 

The video below just came out. - Mike







At least five killed in admin HQ blast as fighter jets deployed to Lugansk, Ukraine

Published time: June 02, 2014 12:18 

At least five people are reported killed after an explosion in Lugansk administration building. The blast came as Kiev deployed fighter jets to the city in eastern Ukraine. This and heavy gunfire on the ground caused panic among civilians.

The death toll was first reported by RIA Novosti; later it was confirmed by local self-defense forces, who said the blast was caused by the army's fighter jets striking the building. 

“Ukraine’s air force struck Lugansk downtown at 16.00 pm. Military aircraft made a targeted strike, *deploying cluster bombs*. The administration building is partially destroyed,” the government of the self-proclaimed Lugansk People’s Republic (LNR) said. 

Many wounded were trapped inside the administration headquarters, which caught on fire. About six ambulance vehicles have arrived at the site. The death toll may rise. 

The LNR’s health minister, Natalia Arkhipova, was among those killed in the attack, according to the self-proclaimed republic’s premier, Vasiliy Nikitin. During the air-strike, he told RIA Novosti, she was talking to another woman on the administration building’s steps. 

Large blood stains inside the HQ could be seen on live-streaming video from the area, with pieces of glass and stones also visible on the floor. The camera operator was choking with smoke. On the outside, many windows are shattered, shell fragments covering the nearby area and dark plumes of smoke are coming from the fourth floor. 

“The fire has engulfed the third and fourth floors of the building, and the windows have been blown out. There are shards of glass everywhere. I saw paramedics carrying people out of the entrance,” a witness told RT. 

Minutes earlier, heavy machine-gun shooting was reported in the center of Lugansk, as fierce fighting between the local self-defense squads and Kiev forces renewed after a brief truce. 

The shooting sparked panic among visitors of a café, who rushed out searching for shelter.


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)




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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*UNMASKING THE NAZIS OF WESTERN UKRAINE!*

The burial service at the beginning of the video for the remains of the Nazi collaborators killed in WW II was conducted by priests of the UNIATE Church. The UNIATES are actually Catholics that recognize Rome, but use the Eastern Orthodox rite in their services. You will notice that they cross themselves the same as Orthodox, but make no mistake - these are *NOT* Eastern Orthodox Christians, but UNIATES who support fascism and who make up the majority in Western Ukraine.

*GO TO 32 MINUTES INTO THE VIDEO AND YOU WILL SEE HOW THE NEO-NAZIS ATTACKED THE ORTHODOX TENT CITY IN FRONT OF THE TRADE UNION BUILDING IN ODESSA AND BURNED AND MURDERED UNARMED PEOPLE.*


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

NATO-Backed terrorist attack on civilians, air strike. FREEDUMBZ, all who disagree wear dem tinfoil hatz


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## Spanish Lariato (Jul 26, 2011)

The genocide continues. How many civilians NATO has to slaughter, how many countries has to destroy?
Here is a video that demonstrate the air raid perpetrated by the fascist scum:


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The West sent in hundreds of thousands of troops to back up Denikin and Vrangel from 1918 to 1923. The German Nazis and their allies tried it from 1941-1945. They didn't succeed then, and they won't succeed now. The neo-Nazis of the Kiev junta are at the red line and will pay for their killing of innocent civilians, including children. *THEY WILL PAY BIG TIME!* - Mike

The song is about a Russian commander fighting for the resistance against the Western Intervention and White Guard during the counter revolution from 1918-1923. The video depicts a Red Cavalry charge at Nazi positions outside of Moscow during The Great Patriotic War. A fitting mix.


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

hahaha pretty awesome now that the fascists have been abandoned by putin and are getting their asses kicked all the fascist sympathizers can do is cry about how no one cares that their fascist buddies are getting bombed and and make empty threats about revenge that will never materialize

guess what fascists, laws of war state that when you hide in civilian areas they become legitimate targets and _you_ are the ones legally and morally responsible for any civilian deaths, not the people attacking you. they didn't make you use human shields and turn civilian buildings into military outposts. you did that. you're responsible.

putin blinked and abandoned your fascist friends, now those fascists of luhansk and donetsk can either give up or die. they seem to want to die so it's great that the kiev government is obliging them and making the world a little better by taking some fascists out of it. kiev government claiming up to 300 fascists killed or wounded in slavyansk today, hopefully it's more soon.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

It would seem like the murderers of the Kiev junta's Right Sector neo-Nazis in the National Guard are at their best when they are making war on hospitals, kindergartens, schools, and unarmed civilians. *The people in the West who support these animals are pieces of shit that deserve the same fate that awaits these bastards.* - Mike

*ANOTHER HOSPITAL SHELLED BY THE VALIANT NEO-NAZI NATIONAL GUARD*




The village of Krasny Liman near Slavyansk in the Donetsk region was heavily shelled by the Ukrainian army during Kiev’s military operation Tuesday. Residents were killed and injured as *shells hit a hospital, school and train station*, locals told RT.

Kiev said Tuesday that its helicopters and jets “fired more than 150 missiles” on Lugansk and its suburbs. A Ukrainian missile also hit the administration building in the very heart of the city, as confirmed by the OSCE, *killing at least eight civilians inside and near the building*. 

*RIGHT SECTOR NEO-NAZIS CONTINUE THEIR WAR AGAINST WOMEN AND CHILDREN WITH MISSILES AND CLUSTER BOMBS*




Ukrainian Air Force fighter jets fired missiles at the villages of Semenovka and Cherevkovka near the city on Tuesday, the People’s Mayor of Slavyansk, Vyacheslav Ponomarev, told Itar-Tass. 

At least five missile strikes were carried out on Semenovka, the news agency reported, citing self-defense forces. 

The Ukrainian troops brought to Slavyansk up to 100 units of military equipment, including tanks, self-propelled artillery and Tulpan mortars, self-propelled Gvozdika howitzers and Grad multiple launch rocket systems, Khorosheva said earlier Tuesday. 

* The civilian population in Slavyansk is hiding from the constant shelling in basements*. 


*THE BRAVE NAZIS OF THE KIEV JUNTA LAUNCH AN AIR ATTACK ON CIVILIANS IN DOWNTOWN SLAVYANSK*


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Video of pro-Russian terrorists executing Ukrainian soldiers:

Warning: video contains explicit material. NSFL.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

At this point it I don't even know how these two groups are fighting 

They seem to be far more interested in filming each other


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Video of pro-Russian terrorists executing Ukrainian soldiers:
> 
> Warning: video contains explicit material. NSFL.


First of all, *if the video is genuine I couldn't give a flying fuck!* The bastards that were executed were terrorists of the invasion force of the Right Sector National Guard. *KILL THEM ALL!* 

When the Nazi terrorists of the Kiev junta were burning unarmed people alive in Odessa, shooting down civlians trying to vote in the referendum in Mariupol, bombing hospitals and schools in Slavyansk, and shooting unarmed civilians in the street in Kramatorsk you didn't say a word. *All of a sudden you are so concerned and this execution offends you??? *

Also, I wonder how genuine this video is??? Usually, during most executions the people conducting the execution cover their faces. That would seem like the thing to do, especially in the circumstances in the east Ukraine. Also, they didn't give us a good look at the bodies. Be that as it may, I can post 20 videos of Right Sector National Guard atrocities for every one like this. 

- Mike

СМЕРТЬ ФАШИСТАМ ПРАВОГО СЕКТОРА И КИЕВСКОЙ ХУНТЫ!

СЛАВА ГЕРОЯМ ДОБАССА, СЛАВА!


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

NATO provocatuers are trying to get Putin to invade. But Putin is too smart for that. The Spetsnaz will serve with distinction in Eastern Ukraine protecting innocents from plutocratic terror.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

stevefox1200 said:


> At this point it I don't even know how these two groups are fighting
> 
> They seem to be far more interested in filming each other


Yeah, like some kind of really weird porn.

To Batko: terrorists? Invading their own country? :lmao


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Yeah, like some kind of really weird porn.
> 
> To Batko: terrorists? Invading their own country? :lmao


No, the Kiev junta's terrorists invading two new nations that have invoked their right of self-determination not to remain part of a country that is ruled by an illegitimate government.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Two illegitimate 'nations', yet to be acknowledged by anyone, are fighting against an 'illegitimate' president that was voted on by the whole country including those two 'nations' and even accepted by Vladimir Putin. Seems legit.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Two illegitimate 'nations', yet to be acknowledged by anyone, are fighting against an 'illegitimate' president that was voted on by the whole country including those two 'nations' and even accepted by Vladimir Putin. Seems legit.


Only in the Orwellian world of the U.S. empire can an illegitimate junta that came to power by overthrowing the elected government run an election to chose a "legitimate" leader of that country.

Not to mention that none of the candidates represented the interests of the east and south, and that supposedly just over half the country voted. In reality, only about 27% of the eligible Ukrainian voters cast ballots for the latest gangster oligarch to become "president" of Ukraine. Hardly a mandate for pig Poroshenko.

- Mike


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## Muerte al fascismo (Feb 3, 2008)

Turnout would be higher if the rebels didn't actively stop people from voting in their spheres of influence. It also didn't help with them shooting at election observers and attacking any person opposed to separatism.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Muerte al fascismo said:


> Turnout would be higher if the rebels didn't actively stop people from voting in their spheres of influence. It also didn't help with them shooting at election observers and attacking any person opposed to separatism.


1. Threaten to kill people if they vote.
2. Claim that the election is not fair because not all people voted.


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## Muerte al fascismo (Feb 3, 2008)

The Manowarrior said:


> 1. Threaten to kill people if they vote.
> 2. Claim that the election is not fair because not all people voted.


It really is a surreal turn of events. The rebels try and take a key airport and complain when the government respond with military action. 

On top of this, any media outlets, not pro-moscow gets kicked out and called US lapdogs or Nazi Sympathizers. In these regions, to even get a Pro-Government civilian to speak on record is like planning a specs op, as they are often hounded and fear for their life from potential retribution

I'm not even a big supporter of the new government, but these rebels are just not for real.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Muerte al fascismo said:


> It really is a surreal turn of events. The rebels try and take a key airport and complain when the government respond with military action.
> 
> On top of this, any media outlets, not pro-moscow gets kicked out and called US lapdogs or Nazi Sympathizers. In these regions, to even get a Pro-Government civilian to speak on record is like planning a specs op, as they are often hounded and fear for their life from potential retribution
> 
> I'm not even a big supporter of the new government, but these rebels are just not for real.


This 'you're either with us or you're against us' ideology is stupid. If yo support Russia in this argument, you're OK, but if you don't, you're a neo-nazi, fascist, scum, slave to the Western whore media, etc. Also, if any media outlet presents the news not the way they want, they're whore, neo-nazi, fascist, etc.


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## Muerte al fascismo (Feb 3, 2008)

I think the Goebbels(Think it was him) quote applies well here. _"If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself."_

There's a reason they lack mass international support. This Cold War Siege mentality is just alienating all potential allies.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Tbhayley, I think that this conflict won't be resolved any time soon. Maybe even for years to come. There are many examples of this. The closest example is Northern Cyprus. Like those 'republics' in Ukraine, Northern Cyprus is only recognized by one country. Turkey (surprise, surprise). In 1974 Turkey invaded Cyprus and took that land. People who live there say that they are an independent country, but nobody else thinks that way. Same with parts of Eastern Ukraine.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> 1. Threaten to kill people if they vote.
> 2. Claim that the election is not fair because not all people voted.


If the rebels *THREATENED* to kill people if they voted in the presidential elections, the Kiev junta's Right Sector National Guard, in fact, actually *KILLED* people who were trying to vote in the secession referendum, especially in Mariupol where there was a massacre.

Only around 10% of the eligible 7.5 million people in the Donetsk/Lugansk Republics voted in the presidential elections. Around 90% voted in the secessionist referendum. 

Also, there were no rebel threats in regions like Odessa, Mikhailovsk, and Kherson on the coast, yet very few came out to vote in the presidential election. Zaporozhia, Dnepropetrovsk, and Kharkov also saw very light voting in the the presidentail polls.

The vast majority of the turnout for the presidential snap election were people in Western Ukraine and Central Ukraine. Since every candidate on the ballot was in favor of the interests of Western Ukraine it is not surprising. Not one candidate on the ballot represented the interests of the east and the south.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Muerte al fascismo said:


> I think the Goebbels(Think it was him) quote applies well here. _"If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself."_
> 
> There's a reason they lack mass international support. This Cold War Siege mentality is just alienating all potential allies.


And, the lie has been repeated often enough in the western media so that most people (especially on this thread) seem to have forgotten who overthrew the elected government using neo-Nazi Right Sector and Svoboda shock troops. And, who continues to use them, because most regular Ukrainian Army troops won't shoot down civilians and bomb schools and hospitals.

The reason the freedom fighters lack international support is because the western media is in lockstop supporting the U.S. backed, if not engineered, coup and the junta that controls Kiev.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)




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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Putin's envoy: "Finland joining NATO could start World War III"


How stupid are they? Don't they realize that trying to scare us away from NATO with statements like that will only push the general public more towards joining it? :kobe


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

If nothing else, the new "president" is certainly guaranteeing generations of hate towards the government and the West.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*It looks like the Kiev junta's nazi Right Sector National Guard started fire bombing civilian areas in Slavyansk with white phosphorus incendiary weapons. Yep, Poroshenko is a real "peace maker."
*






Kiev’s National Guard unit mutiny: ‘We’ve been discarded like trash’

Published time: June 12, 2014 10:09 

See the video at: http://rt.com/news/165472-ukraine-national-guard-mutiny/

A scandal is surfacing in one of the Ukrainian units attempting to quash revolt in the eastern regions. Turning out to be non-existent on Kiev’s books, the fighters who were denied food and service pay now seek truth in the capital.

The Ukrainian government has been using National Guard conscripts as a major assault force in attacks on anti-Kiev forces in the east of the country. *It is mostly the guards, many of whom are members of the ultranationalist Right Sector movement, who have been shelling the city of Slavyansk and the villages around it with mortars and Howitzers to force the pro-federalist region of Donetsk into submission*. 

He said that all documents of his detachment have disappeared as if they had never been created. 

“We were sleeping on the ground, because we didn't even have tents! They just sent us there - and forgot about us! And while all the generals and commanders were sitting pretty in their warm tents, guarded by the newest APCs, we were sent to fight like cannon fodder,” Zherebetsky said. 

Other members of the National Guard said that sometimes they had to buy their uniform themselves and the body armor was given by sponsors, not the government. 

Another peculiar detail about the unit reveled by the fighters, is that its military personnel have been attributed to other units which actually never existed. That means that technically, they actually saw action, were carrying arms and probably killed adversaries in Donetsk Region of their own accord. 

But that is not the whole story either. The National Guards found out that while actually being deployed to a war zone near the city of Slavyansk for weeks, according to papers they remained in the peaceful city of Pavlograd in the neighboring Dnepropetrovsk Region, so they may forget about the combat pay they were promised. 

“We haven't been paid. We got around [US]$600 on arrival here two months ago, and that's it. We didn't have any food. Instead, they've been feeding us with promises that it's going to happen tomorrow. But we're tired of waiting!” said another National Guard soldier, Evgeny Ivanenko. 

Several dozen unarmed members of the National Guard are now rallying in front of Ukrainian government’s headquarters in protest, demanding to be recognized as combatants. That would give them exceptional treatment and rights to benefits such as discounts on housing services and utilities payments, and privileged healthcare. 

The siege of the city of Slavyansk in east of Ukraine continues, which remains a focal point in the conflict. Last night residents of the city were woken up to see the sky lit by firebombs being dropped on their city. 

Locals say artillery fire has been ongoing for days. Schools, hospitals and government buildings have been partially destroyed. Water and power supplies are practically stopped. 

Ukraine's Health Ministry says 270 people have been killed in the military operation in the east, and about 700 were injured, since Kiev began its military assault against protesters. 


Now an entire unit of the National Guard has revolted and is heading back to Kiev, claiming they have been abandoned by the government and left unpaid. 

“According to official papers, we don't exist! We're an illusion. It's like we haven't been deployed here, we haven't got any ammunition - nothing!” claimed the commander of the Third squadron of the First reserve battalion of the National Guard, Lieutenant Taras Zherebetsky.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

It was payback time yesterday morning when a fascist military transport plane carrying neo-Nazi National Guard troops, weapons, and machinery was shot down by a missile as it attempted to land in Lugansk. At least 49 fascist troops were killed and all the weapons and equipment destroyed.

*KILL ALL THOSE BASTARDS! GLORY TO THE HEROES OF DONBASS!/СЛАВА ГЕРОЯМ ДОНБАССА!*


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

FLY THE FRIENDLY SKIES! FASCIST PIGS, COME GET SOME!

The candy man, pig Poroshenko, is starting to lose a plane a day in his efforts to "make peace." This time the self-defense forces shot down a fascist Sukhoi-24 jet bomber attacking patriots in the town of Gorlovka.

It's not so easy to bomb and kill defenseless civilians when they are now firing SAMs at you from the ground! 

*DEATH TO THE AMERICAN PUPPET JUNTA!
*
*GLORY TO THE HEROES OF DONBASS!/СЛАВА ГЕРОЯМ ДОБАССА!*

Self-defense forces in Gorlovka, E.Ukraine, claim shooting down Kiev bomber jet

Published time: June 14, 2014 10:00 

*Self-defense forces in the town of Gorlovka, eastern Ukraine, say they have downed another plane - a Sukhoi-24 bomber jet. The pilot is alive and currently being taken for questioning*, witnesses told RIA Novosti reports.

There were a total of two jets taking part in the overnight bombarding of a local police station. 

The news follows reports of the two planes performing an attack around 4:30am local time (01:30 GMT), which resulted in losses among the self-defense forces ranks, as well as civilians. Two have been killed and seven injured in the attack, according to police reports. 

"The plane was downed just outside the Kayutovo township, we know at this time that the pilot is being taken in for questioning by the police," a witness told RT by phone. 

The witness has confirmed police reports of casualties sustained during the night's fly-by attack, but put the number of injured at six. 

No information currently is available as to the pilot's physical state. 

There were also reports of Ukrainian militias carrying out several airstrikes on the neighboring town of Druzhovka.


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## Rick_James (May 11, 2012)

Batko, be honest, have you marked out a bit during those recent Lana and Rusev promo's?


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

74 years ago, Lithuania was occupied by Russia. 73 years ago today, Russians began exiling Lithuanians into Siberia. Funny, I tried to find an article on this on RT.com, but _for some reason_ I couldn't.

Also, now I completely am sure, that Batko, or Mike, is either brainwashed or completely retarded. 'Fascist pigs, come get some'? Seriously?

Russians die - fascist neo-nazi US puppet scum pigs will pay for this.
Ukrainians die - let's go the heroes and partiots who kill people.

On the internet I've seen a lot of stupid people, but this tops everything.

Also, I don't want to spam 5 posts in a row, this would be retarded, so I'll post some statistics in this post as well.

During Maidan and the February revolution:

Casualties among people - ~100 (plus over 150 went missing and over a 1000 injured)
Casualties among police - 13 (plus over 200 injured)

And I laugh in the face of those who still support the police :lmao

Let's look at the Bible:

People killed by god - ~2.4 million (excluting 'the great flood' and destroying of major cities)
People killed by satan - 10

But some people still worship god despite it all. Batko, are you also religious? That would be so :lel


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## Café de René (Sep 27, 2011)

Vladimir Putin was on French TV channel TF1 last week. I thought he was brilliant, despite the two journalists trying their best to trick him.

What's really interesting is how TF1 censored almost half of the whole interview and how the French translation was at times very inaccurate, making Putin sound brutal. For instance, when asked about Hilary Clinton, Putin said in a gentleman way "I'd rather not have an argument with a woman" which the French TV translated to "I'd rather not talk to a woman" !

On the other hand, one of the two journalists praised Putin for being honest and not getting information on the questions before the interview was conducted. Believe it or not but it's an usual practice on French TV.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Rick_James said:


> Batko, be honest, have you marked out a bit during those recent Lana and Rusev promo's?


Lana and Rusev are entertainment, this is serious. 

Western Ukrainian Right Sector neo-Nazis have been murdering their unarmed, civilian fellow Ukrainians in the south and east for months. Burning to death over 40 people in Odessa, shooting unarmed civilians trying to express their desire to get away from Kiev by voting in the secession referendums, shelling hospitals, schools, kindergartens, and starting to fire bomb Slavyansk with incendiary weapons.

The "candy man," pig Poroshenko, and his "government" have enough money to spend on fuel for planes, tanks, and weapons to kill fellow Ukrainians who are non-combatant civilians. But, they don't have the money to pay their legitimate bills.

Supporters of the American puppet regime in Kiev can babble all they want about "brainwashing" and one sided reporting of RT. But, the videos and photos of the crimes of the Kiev junta are out there. If the western media won't put them up and ignore them, then look to RT. They may be biased, but the videos and photos are not made up.

- Mike


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Who can take a sunrise, sprinkle it with dew

Cover it with choc'late and a miracle or two

The Candy Man, oh the Candy Man can

The Candy Man can 'cause he mixes it with love and makes the world taste good

everyone loves Sammy Davis Jr.


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## Panzer (May 31, 2007)

Wow you people really don't have a good side to cheer for huh? Fascists or neo Communists? Pick your poison you puppets!


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## Rick_James (May 11, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> Lana and Rusev are entertainment, this is serious.
> 
> Western Ukrainian Right Sector neo-Nazis have been murdering their unarmed, civilian fellow Ukrainians in the south and east for months. Burning to death over 40 people in Odessa, shooting unarmed civilians trying to express their desire to get away from Kiev by voting in the secession referendums, shelling hospitals, schools, kindergartens, and starting to fire bomb Slavyansk with incendiary weapons.
> 
> ...


From what I've been seeing on the news, eastern Ukraine rebels are essentially doing the same thing to those that wish to stay with the Ukraine, burning buildings that have food, taking over government buildings and beating and in some cases murdering people - people that may not directly be involved with the conflict either. I don't think it's as simple as you make it out to be with rebels being friendly people who just want to change their government/reunite with Russia through a democratic process and non-violent process.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Rick_James said:


> From what I've been seeing on the news, eastern Ukraine rebels are essentially doing the same thing to those that wish to stay with the Ukraine, burning buildings that have food, taking over government buildings and beating and in some cases murdering people - people that may not directly be involved with the conflict either. I don't think it's as simple as you make it out to be with rebels being friendly people who just want to change their government/reunite with Russia through a democratic process and non-violent process.


It's far from democratic and peaceful. And neither side is friendly. When you think about it, pro-Russian separatists are behaving extremely like the terrorists in the Middle East.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Rick_James said:


> From what I've been seeing on the news, eastern Ukraine rebels are essentially doing the same thing to those that wish to stay with the Ukraine, burning buildings that have food, taking over government buildings and beating and in some cases murdering people - people that may not directly be involved with the conflict either. I don't think it's as simple as you make it out to be with rebels being friendly people who just want to change their government/reunite with Russia through a democratic process and non-violent process.


First of all, cite your incidents where the self-defense forces have burned people alive in buildings, or walked through the streets and shot civilians who were just trying to vote in the referendum. I can start posting videos and articles about the Kiev junta's forces commiting those atrocities, but then Manowarrior would start screaming that I'm taking up too much space on the thread.

As far as taking over government buildings and fighting the lickspittles whom the Kiev junta appointed to run the regions, yes they weren't going to be granted any kind of autonomy and they had to take it by force. Now they are defending their territory against incendiary bombings of civlian areas as well as shelling of schools, hospitals, and kindergartens. 

The Western Ukrainian Nazis of Right Sector can't beat the self-defense militas so they are trying to win by obliterating the civilian population. 

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

^ They shot down two Ukrainian planes with 50 people in them, killing all. The planes were also supplying food to the people. But hey, that's not a crime. Killing people is perfectly fine, as long as they're not on your side. Right, Batko?


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## Thad Castle (Jul 8, 2006)

The Manowarrior said:


> ^ They shot down two Ukrainian planes with 50 people in them, killing all. The planes were also supplying food to the people. But hey, that's not a crime. Killing people is perfectly fine, as long as they're not on your side. Right, Batko?


That seems to be how a lot of people think.

"It is NOT Ok to kill! Unless, of course, they're on your side, and meet your political agendas!" 

However, in all honesty, I think killing each other is just a natural part of life. Anyone who thinks other wise needs to stop dropping acid.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Any evil is acceptable as long as it supports Batko's political agenda.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> ^ They shot down two Ukrainian planes with 50 people in them, killing all. The planes were also supplying food to the people. But hey, that's not a crime. Killing people is perfectly fine, as long as they're not on your side. Right, Batko?


Tomas, you are a perfect example of how the West reports events in Ukraine. From what I read, even the Western media didn't put your bullshit spin on it.

The first plane they shot down on Friday was an IL-76 which is a large military transport. The 49 *"people"* who were killed were *Kiev junta troops *who were being brought in to kill the self-defense troops and civilians as they have been doing for the last two months. 

*Killing "people" who are being brought in to kill you is perfectly fine in any sane person's mind.* 

In that military transport plane were also* weapons and military machinery*. *Any food being carried was not for humanitarian purposes, but to feed the National Guard troops* who are starting to get testy, because they are not being paid and are underfed.

Tomas, your bullshit gets even thicker regarding the second plane which was shot down on Saturday. It was a *Sukhoi-24 jet bomber that was attacking the self-defense forces and killed a number of them before they brought it down*. 

If you are ignorant regarding the construction of airplanes, the Sukhoi-24 is not built to carry food - just BOMBS!

BTW, the *"person"* flying the Sukhoi-24 was *NOT* killed. The pilot ejected and was taken captive after he parachuted to the ground.

- Mike













Sukhoi Su-24

Attack aircraft

*The Sukhoi Su-24 is a supersonic, all-weather attack aircraft developed in the Soviet Union. This variable-sweep wing, twin-engined side-by-side two-seater carried the USSR's first integrated digital navigation/attack system. 
*


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

If they don't support your political views, they're not people? Idiocy at its best (worst).


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> If they don't support your political views, they're not people? Idiocy at its best (worst).


I highlighted "people" because they were SOLDIERS! Soldiers flying in to kill not only self-defense soldiers, but non-combatant civilians. 

Tomas, your attempts to make it look like the self-defense forces are killing innocent people is pathetic and lame. Yes, they are killing "people" - soldiers who are being sent in to kill them. 

All you can do is make personal attacks against me because the facts point to the Kiev junta commiting atrocities, not the other way around. 

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Not the other way around :lmao. Russians killed - atrocities. Ukrainians killed - NOT atrocities. Apparently fpalm.

Never did I say that the government is innocent or expressed my support towards it. I'm just pointing out how ridiculous you look when you accuse one side of committing crimes while completely overlooking the fact that your supported side is doing exactly the same.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Not the other way around :lmao. Russians killed - atrocities. Ukrainians killed - NOT atrocities. Apparently fpalm.
> 
> Never did I say that the government is innocent or expressed my support towards it. I'm just pointing out how ridiculous you look when you accuse one side of committing crimes while completely overlooking the fact that your supported side is doing exactly the same.


Firstly, *all of the people who are being killed are Ukrainians*. In your Russophobic, bigoted mind you don't consider Russian speaking Ukrainians nationals of Ukraine. Worse, most of the people killed by the Kiev junta to date have been Ukrainian civilians in the south and east regions, not military self-defense troops. 

In Odessa they were trapped in a building and burned to death and then beaten to death if they escaped the flames by the Kiev junta's Right Sector thugs. In the cities of the east civilian targets have been fire bombed, shelled, and blockaded to starve them. The Right Sector National Guard does a better job when they are murdering women and shelling schools, than fighting self-defense forces.

You say you don't express support for the Kiev government, but you never express any negative opinion about it either. When was the last time you pointed out any of the atrocities committed by the Kiev junta's forces or, for that matter, the actions of the United States??? With you it's blaming everything on the Russians, which is the western media's party line.

So, calling me "ridiculous" is akin to the "pot calling the kettle black."

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)




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## Rick_James (May 11, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> First of all, cite your incidents where the self-defense forces have burned people alive in buildings, or walked through the streets and shot civilians who were just trying to vote in the referendum. I can start posting videos and articles about the Kiev junta's forces commiting those atrocities, but then Manowarrior would start screaming that I'm taking up too much space on the thread.
> 
> As far as taking over government buildings and fighting the lickspittles whom the Kiev junta appointed to run the regions, yes they weren't going to be granted any kind of autonomy and they had to take it by force. Now they are defending their territory against incendiary bombings of civlian areas as well as shelling of schools, hospitals, and kindergartens.
> 
> ...


I'm not using western news agency reports or Russian news agency reports, I'm mainly going off of various documentary's I've seen by independent film makers that have gone into the area (which is a quite popular spot, despite the danger). For example this video:






This one states:

- Shelling is going on by both sides
- The video has a guy who lives in an apartment building explaining that shells every day come dangerous close to where he lives, in a building that looks like it may have already been hit by a few
- Another coordinated attack on some sort of farm facility where victims stated people with paint on their faces and masks came and beat up the workers, stole barn animals (for food) and burned the building down, with the implication it was the rebels. 

But yes, if you are reading a Russian form of news, they are likely going to have just as much bias if not more, compared to the US news agencies that I assume you are sick of lol. 

Another article:

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/...e-as-Pro-Russians-Capture-Children-in-Snizhne

This one states Russia is in fact helping the pro Russian rebels and that the pro Russians are kidnapping kids. 

I'm not saying that the other side is doing "good things" either, but if you think the rebels aren't doing things that warrant attacks from the Ukraine army, you are very jaded on this topic.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Rick_James said:


> I'm not using western news agency reports or Russian news agency reports, I'm mainly going off of various documentary's I've seen by independent film makers that have gone into the area (which is a quite popular spot, despite the danger). For example this video:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


EVER SOURCE THAT IS NOT RT IS WESTERN PROPAGANDA 

the candy man can

oh the candy man can


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Rick_James said:


> I'm not using western news agency reports or Russian news agency reports, I'm mainly going off of various documentary's I've seen by independent film makers that have gone into the area (which is a quite popular spot, despite the danger). For example this video:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



First of all, the term "pro-Russian rebels" is a misnomer invented by the western media to further their agenda. The Ukrainians in the east and south are more "anti-Kiev junta" than "pro-Russian."

If the Kiev junta's National Guard wasn't undertaking a punitive military operation on the Ukrainian seperatists in the east they would not have to do anything to defend themselves. 

As it stands, it is the Kiev junta's forces that attacked and are attacking the east, not vice versa. It is the Kiev junta's forces that are fire bombing civilian areas, shelling hospitals and schools - not the anti-junta Ukrainians.

VICE NEWS is totally pro-Kiev junta and when the narrator stated, in substance, "that daily shelling from both sides takes its toll" he is full of shit. The anti-junta self defense forces are not shelling their own people. Aside from not being true, it's totally illogical.

The last two weeks the Kiev junta's forces have stepped up shelling, air attacks, and fire bombings of civilian areas in the eastern cities. They have intensified their invasion despite pig Poroshenko's vow to end the hositilities.

Since the people support the self-defense forces and they are on their own turf, doesn't it seem illogical that they would be beating up people and stealing food??? It's more likely that it was the Kiev junta's National Guardsman or regular Ukrainian Army who have openly been complaining about not getting rations and having to forage for food.

BTW, the article stated that Russia admitted to sending humanitarian aid. They didn't admit to sending in weapons. I don't know for a fact that they did or didn't send weapons, but the article is talking about humanitarian aid. You presented it as if the Russian representative admitted to sending in weapons.

Lastly, that's the first I heard of the bus being hijacked. It doesn't make any sense to kidnap your own kids. It sounds like nonsense to me. 

In any case, it is the Kiev junta that is making war on the Ukrainians in the east, not the other way around. *If the junta withdraws its troops the fighting will end.
*
- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Again, Batko's ignorance at its best. You still refuse to believe that both sides are doing the same things. If something is full of shit here, it's your little brainwashed and deluded head.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*NURSE KILLED AS KIEV JUNTA FORCES SHELL HOSPITAL IN SLAVYANSK - June 15th*





*THESE UKRAINIAN REFUGEES ARE AFRAID OF KIEV AND POROSHENKO, NOT THE SELF-DEFENSE FORCES June 9th*






*JUNTA FASCISTS SHOOT DOWN UNARMED, NON-COMBATANT CIVILIANS IN MARIUPOL, May 9*






*UKRAINE'S FASCIST WESTERN UKRAINIAN NATIONAL GUARD KILLS REGULAR UKRAINIAN ARMY TROOPS WHO REFUSE TO CARRY OUT WAR CRIMES AGAINST CIVILIANS*


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

I think we need to find a way to shorten FASCIST WESTERN UKRAINIAN NATIONAL GUARD 

That's a long ass name 

Oh, who can take tomorrow, dip it in a dream

Separate the sorrow and collect up all the cream

The Candy Man, oh the Candy Man can


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Rick_James said:


> I'm not saying that the other side is doing "good things" either, but if you think the rebels aren't doing things that warrant attacks from the Ukraine army, you are very jaded on this topic.


*Did the civilians in Slavyansk do things that warranted the Kiev junta's firebombing of civilian areas with illegal white phosphorous incendiary weapons that are banned by the United Nations?
*


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Ukrainian army is doing 'bad things'. Pro-Russian separatists are doing 'bad things'. Your denial of one side's actions is ridiculous. When you can't even admit that the separatists are doing the same things as the army, it's impossible to have an actual conversation. It's like talking to a wall. In before Batko posts another action committed by the army in reply to this.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Ukrainian army is doing 'bad things'. Pro-Russian separatists are doing 'bad things'. Your denial of one side's actions is ridiculous. When you can't even admit that the separatists are doing the same things as the army, it's impossible to have an actual conversation. It's like talking to a wall. In before Batko posts another action committed by the army in reply to this.


The Kiev junta is the one sending soldiers to the east in a punitive action to kill and punish the Ukrainian seperatists there. *If the National Guard and Ukrainian Army would withdraw the fighting would end immediately*.

The eastern Ukrainian self-defense forces are fighting to defend their homeland and right to self-determination. The "bad things" that they have done (and will do) are against the invading forces of the Keiv junta, NOT against non-combatant civilians. 

The Kiev junta's military invasion in the east is a *punitive action* and has targeted civilians as well as Ukrainian self-defense forces. And, from the look of it, the National Guard has killed more non-combatant civlians than fighters.

*I reiterate, if the Kiev junta's troops cease their invasion the fighting will stop immediately*.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*Ukraine should have joined the Customs Union with Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Armenia instead of going along with the U.S. plan to overthrow the government and let the IMF in. They would have received $15 billion with no strings and be paying $160 per 1,000 cubic meters of gas right now like Customs Union member Belarus, not the market rate ($385) that Europe pays. * 
- Mike

Gazprom Implements Prepayment Delivery Scheme For Russian Gas to Ukraine Over Arrears










MOSCOW, June 16 (RIA Novosti) - Russian gas giant Gazprom at 10:00 a.m. local time (06:00 a.m. GMT) implemented a prepayment plan for the delivery of Russian fuel to Ukraine’s Naftogaz, according to a company statement on Monday.

"The decision was made because of the chronic non-payment by Ukraine’s Naftogaz. *Arrears by the company for Russian gas deliveries stand at $4.458 billion*," the statement reads.

The statement said that $1.451 billion is owed for November-December 2013, and $3.007 billion for April-May 2014.

From now on, the Ukrainian company will only receive the amount of gas it will have paid for in advance. No payments have been received for June preliminary bill, yet. *The latest price proposed by Russia stands at $385, which is the average market price Gazprom offered Kiev *after axing a deal to subsidize gas exports to Ukraine.

The decision to switch to pre-payment scheme was delayed several times this month, and came into force after the latest round of three-party crunch talks, involving the European Commission, brought no agreement late on Sunday night, with Gazprom reaffirming its unyielding position.

Ukraine has been driving a hard bargain in its pricing dispute with Russia, pressing for a low price of $268.5 per 1,000 cubic meters, which is what it was paying before Gazprom cancelled the rebate. Ukrainian Energy Minister Yuriy Prodan said earlier it was ready to compromise at $326, and After the Sunday talks, Prodan said government in Kiev was ready for a halt to Russian natural gas supplies.

Ukraine’s gas debt to Russia has been building up since 2013 as the country found itself amid a deep political crisis. Naftogaz’ discounted rate was scrapped in April after Kiev failed to deliver on its debt, which now accumulates at a rate of some $1 billion per month.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> *I reiterate, if the Kiev junta's troops cease their invasion the fighting will stop immediately*.
> 
> - Mike


Same ting will happen if the separatists back off. I Ukrainian army will stop, then the terrorists will just annex the Eastern Ukraine. Whoever stops fighting, loses. That's how wars work.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Same ting will happen if the separatists back off. I Ukrainian army will stop, then the terrorists will just annex the Western Ukraine. Whoever stops fighting, loses. That's how wars work.


So, the self-defense forces should back off and let the killers of the Kiev junta's National Guard walk in and take over??? fpalm 

*The invaders, i.e. the ones attacking, should back off*.

The junta's forces are the ones attacking. If they stop attacking the people defending their homes will have noone to shoot at. It's really that simple, Tomas! :lmao

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Take over fpalmfpalmfpalmfpalmfpalmfpalm

UKRAINIAN army will take over UKRAINIAN lands :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

Don't be ridiculous.

*Separatists started it*. They didn't like the government, so they started overthrowing the governments in the Western Ukrainian republics. They were the ones who started it in the Eastern Ukraine. *If it wasn't for them, there would be NO CASUALTIES AT ALL*.


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## Panzer (May 31, 2007)

The separatists have made it clear that they want Russia to control Ukraine. You know, like the good ole Soviet days. DESPITE the actions of the Kiev government, Ukraine has a right to govern itself. I mean, if I was a Ukrainian, I would rather have the rest of Europe as my support than freakin Russian trying to make my land into a Soviet republic nostalgic state.


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## Panzer (May 31, 2007)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_War_of_Independence

Remember this. Before Ukrainian nationalists and Poles were at each others throats after WW2, they fought against Soviet Russia's AGGRESSIVE expansion. East Ukraine is nostalgic for reduced freedoms I guess. 

No side is perfect in this fight but Ukraine is the biggest victim in all of this and the state must be preserved. If anyone in East Ukraine yearns for Russia, they can pack up and move to Russia. I'm sure the Russian soldiers on the other side of the border will greet them with open arms. Well better than the old days where a lot of them would have been sent to work camps.


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

http://k-z.com.ua/myr/30968-naryshkin-obvinil-finlyandiyu-v-anneksii-finlyandii

Someone mind translating this for me? I read the Google translate version but would like to know how accurate it is.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Allur said:


> http://k-z.com.ua/myr/30968-naryshkin-obvinil-finlyandiyu-v-anneksii-finlyandii
> 
> Someone mind translating this for me? I read the Google translate version but would like to know how accurate it is.


Sure!

*Naryshkin accuses Finland of annexing Finland*

Speaker of Gosduma (parliament) Sergey Naryshkin on Wednesday accused Finland of annexing Finland. Reported by TV channel Russia 24.

As is known, October Revolution of 1917 overthrew the provisional government and allowed the Finnish government to sign a declaration of independence on December 4, 1917, which was approved by the parliament on December 6.

However, the October Revolution had illegitimately overthrown the provisional government, which has illegitimately overthrown Tsar Nikolai II.

"Then, 96 years ago, Finland annexed Finland, though, peacefully, but it was actually an annexation" -said Naryshkin.

It is worth noting, that the speaker of Russian Gosduma forgets about Russia's annexation of Finland, apparently thinking that Finland has always been Russian land.


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Thanks, the Google version was pretty accurate then.



Typical western hypocrisy, right Mike? They say that Novorossiya is allowed to separate from a country lead by a bad government, but when someone secedes from Russia with the same reason, it's an illegal annexation. :duck



Also, if you're making comments like that, or are in a political position like that, you should probably know the history of your own country. It might, you know, help you a bit.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> Thanks, the Google version was pretty accurate then.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


First of all, Naryshkin may be the Chairman of the Lower House of the State Duma, but he can make buffoonish statements and does not speak for most Russians as far as I know. I read the original Russian that you posted and the article was ridiculous.

Finland was a "Grand Duchy" of the Russian Empire in the 19th century up until 1917. It was either that or being part of the Swedish Kingdom for centuries before that. The Finns had not been free for a long time.

It was after the Great October Socialist Revolution that Finland gained its independence. 

*BTW, it was the "democratic" western supported Provisional Government of Kerensky that prevented Finland from gaining independence after the first Russian Revolution and abdication of the Tsar in March, 1917*. The left wanted to allow Finland to secede and form its own independent government, but those democracy loving western backed followers of *Kerensky nixed that idea by force*.

It was only after the Great October Socialist Revolution that Finland finally gained its independence. I'm not naive enough to believe that Lenin was very happy about it, but in 1918 he signed the Treaty of Brest Litovsk that gave Finland autonomy. *Ironically, it was the Communist Party (Bolsheviks) that granted Finland independence, not the holier than thou "democratic" western backed Kerenskyists*.

Personally, I believe that Finland was fucked by the Swedish Kingdom and Russian Empire, but was just not strong enough to win its independence from those two countries that exploited it.

Novorossiya is in a similar position to pre-20th century Finland and is fighting for its right to self-determination. 

What happened *BEFORE*, right or wrong, is *NOT* a justification for what the Kiev junta is perpetrating *NOW*. Bringing up things like this just obfuscates the issue at hand and diverts attention away from the crimes of the Kiev junta. 

*If anything, these examples of past Russian trespasses should be cited to condemn the evil being perpetrated today by the U.S. puppet junta in Kiev! *

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Panzer said:


> The separatists have made it clear that they want Russia to control Ukraine. You know, like the good ole Soviet days. DESPITE the actions of the Kiev government, Ukraine has a right to govern itself. I mean, if I was a Ukrainian, I would rather have the rest of Europe as my support than freakin Russian trying to make my land into a Soviet republic nostalgic state.


I believe the Ukrainian people in the east and the south have made it clear that they don't want to be ruled by the illegitimate U.S. puppet government in Kiev and want the right to determine their own future.

I agree that Ukraine has the right to govern itself, but *who is going to do the governing *- a Washington backed right wing junta that took power by overthrowing the elected government and now makes war on its own people??? An ex-mafioso oligarch who is now "president" after receiving the votes of literally 27% of the eligible voters??? Neo-Nazis running the Ministry of Defense and Internal Affairs??? A government that bans opposition parties???

BTW, since you're not Ukrainian and I doubt that you have any relatives in Ukraine or have ever been there personally, you're opinion on what is good for Ukrainians is irrelevant and ludicrous.

- Mike


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> Finland was a "Grand Duchy" of the Russian Empire in the 19th century up until 1917. It was either that or being part of the Swedish Kingdom for centuries before that. The Finns had not been free for a long time.


Correct. Finland and its citizens were abused as a part of Sweden, just like they were under Russia. Were things under the Swedish crown as bad as the Russification era(s), no, but they were by no means good.



Batko10 said:


> *BTW, it was the "democratic" western supported Provisional Government of Kerensky that prevented Finland from gaining independence after the first Russian Revolution and abdication of the Tsar in March, 1917*. The left wanted to allow Finland to secede and form its own independent government, but those democracy loving western backed followers of *Kerensky nixed that idea by force*.
> 
> It was only after the Great October Socialist Revolution that Finland finally gained its independence. I'm not naive enough to believe that Lenin was very happy about it, but in 1918 he signed the Treaty of Brest Litovsk that gave Finland autonomy. *Ironically, it was the Communist Party (Bolsheviks) that granted Finland independence, not the holier than thou "democratic" western backed Kerenskyists*.


Again, correct. Kerensky's provisional government reinstated the autonomy but was against a complete independence, so our parliament had to turn to the Bolsheviks. Earlier, in fall 1917, Lenin had already tried to get the Finnish left to have their own "revolution", possibly to have socialist Finland to join the USSR later on, but the leftists refused to doing so.

It's interesting to think why Lenin agreed to sign our bourgeoisie-majority government's independence declaration. Did he smell the civil war coming less than a month from that, with a possible socialist win realigning Finland with the USSR?



Batko10 said:


> Novorossiya is in a similar position to pre-20th century Finland and is fighting for its right to self-determination.


They somewhat are, yes.



Batko10 said:


> *What happened BEFORE, right or wrong, is NOT a justification for what the Kiev junta is perpetrating NOW.* Bringing up things like this just obfuscates the issue at hand and diverts attention away from the crimes of the Kiev junta.


That is true, and I wasn't implying otherwise.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)




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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)




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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)




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## Thad Castle (Jul 8, 2006)

Russia and its supporters lick good butt! MMmm!


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Mike, if the pro-Russian separatists fight for the right, why did they replace the white color in the Russian flag with black? Is changing white for black a symbol of peace?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Mike, if the pro-Russian separatists fight for the right, why did they replace the white color in the Russian flag with black? Is changing white for black a symbol of peace?


I would venture a guess that the anti-Kiev Ukrainian seperatists in Donetsk changed the flag, because they wanted their own flag for their Republic, not the Russian flag.

I have no idea why they chose black. Is there something wrong with the black color for a flag? The present day German flag is one third black. 

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> I would venture a guess that the anti-Kiev Ukrainian seperatists in Donetsk changed the flag, because *they wanted their own flag* for their Republic, not the Russian flag.
> 
> I have no idea why they chose black. Is there something wrong with the black color for a flag? The present day German flag is one third black.
> 
> - Mike


Is that also why they have Russia's coat of arms on that flag?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Is that also why they have Russia's coat of arms on that flag?


You should direct your questions to the council of the D.P.R., not me. I'm not involved in any of their decisions, including policy on flag designing.  I'm sure they would be happy to answer your questions.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> You should direct your questions to the council of the D.P.R., not me. I'm not involved in any of their decisions, including policy on flag designing. I'm sure they would be happy to answer your questions.
> 
> - Mike


You seem to be defending all their actions and you claim that they want to be sovereign, not a part of Russia. Everybody else here says that they're backed by Moscow and Russia wants to annex Eastern Ukraine. If, according to you, they don't want to be a part of Russian Federation, why do they fight under their flag and coat of arms?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> You seem to be defending all their actions and you claim that they want to be sovereign, not a part of Russia. Everybody else here says that they're backed by Moscow and Russia wants to annex Eastern Ukraine. If, according to you, they don't want to be a part of Russian Federation, why do they fight under their flag and coat of arms?


Although you claim to be "neutral," you seem to be defending the Maidan Mob, Kiev junta, and the National Guard punitive military action in the east with all its atrocities. On the other hand, you go out of your way to try to find anything to discredit and attack the seperatists Ukrainians.

*They are fighting for the right to choose their fate *since this government is not elected, but one that was born of an insurgency of elements that only have the interests of Western Ukraine and the United States at heart.

*It should be their choice* if they want to remain an independent Republic, become a federal region of Russia, or become part of some confederation of Ukrainian regions.

*As I understand it, some want total independence and some want to become a federal region of Russia*. 

Personally, I don't think anyone in their right mind wants to remain in a Ukraine that has vowed to kill them all and ignored their interests from the beginning of the U.S. backed Maidan insurgency. However, I can't speak for them. Some people may want to remain in Ukraine if their rights and autonomy are respected. I would think that the people with this opinion are a small minority, especially after the brutality of the Kiev junta's punitive military operations there.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

2 Russian journalists killed in Ukraine military shelling
Published time: June 17, 2014 11:29 






*Two journalists for Russian TV channel Rossiya have died from wounds sustained during a Ukrainian military shelling attack near Lugansk, eastern Ukraine*. Reporter Igor Kornelyuk passed away on the operating table, a doctor at the hospital confirmed to RT.

The second victim is sound engineer Anton Voloshin. According to RT's information, he died immediately at the scene. 

The Rossiya channel crew consisted of three people with only one of them, Viktor Denisov, the cameraman, surviving the Ukrainian military shelling. 


Captive Russian journalists told they’d be ‘cut to bits’ and ‘barbecued’
Published time: June 17, 2014 12:21 






*Journalists from Russia's Zvezda TV channel were beaten and forced to apologize to the Ukrainian people by video during their two days in captivity. Radicals from Right Sector threatened to cut them up into slices and barbecue them*.

“They [the radicals] dictated us what to write. *If I wrote something wrong, they beat us and using death threats made us re-write the letter,*” said correspondent Evgeny Davydov at a press conference. “We were re-writing it until the text satisfied them.” 

Davydov, along with sound engineer Nikita Konashenkov, were captured in the Donetsk region on Saturday while they were on their way to Dnepropetrovsk Airport to catch a flight back to Moscow. The journalists were freed on Monday afternoon. 

*Zvezda TV crew freed after harsh interrogation, ransom demands by Ukraine radicals *

Among the sentences forcibly dictated to the journalists was “I am apologizing to the people of Ukraine.” 

The radicals then brought a camera to make a video which was posted on YouTube on Monday. 

The two men, under apparent duress, can be seen saying they made all their videos and reports on “Moscow’s orders.” 

“I started talking, *if they didn’t like my answer, they switched off the camera and started beating us*,” said Davydov. “Then they turned on the camera again. This ‘rehearsal’ lasted for a long time.” 

The radicals asked the journalists what they were doing in Ukraine and who they are. 

“*They said that they hate all the Russians and would do everything possible not to let us out of Ukraine alive*,” he added. 

The two men appeared in the conference with bruises around their eyes, injuries they say were inflicted during the constant beatings during their detention. 

“They hit the left side of my face. I fainted…then they hit my jaw and other parts of my body,” said Davydov. 

*Davydov suffered a ruptured left eardrum, medics confirmed, saying two more days in captivity would have left him deaf in one ear*. 

*Moscow outraged at Ukraine’s National Guard for detaining 2 more Russian journalists *

The journalists said that along with constant intimidation, interrogations and beatings, they were constantly receiving death threats from their captors. 

“They [the radicals] said they will make barbecue out of us,” said Davydov. 

The captors also threatened they would take the journalists to the field, shoot them down and bury their bodies right on the spot, he added. 

According to Davydov and Konashenkov,* their captors also kept them from going to the toilet*. 

“The first 10-12 hours they didn’t let us go to the toilet, then, when they delivered us to other officials, we were allowed to.” 

*They also sent text messages to Davydov’s wife, saying that they would cut off his head and legs and send them home one piece at a time. 
*
Meanwhile, the journalists turned out to have been held in Dnepropetrovsk, one of the largest cities in Ukraine which is located in the east of the country. 

“I would like to draw your attention that everything was happening not on a random field near [the eastern Ukrainian city of] Donetsk, *it was happening right in the center of Dnepropetrovsk next to administration building*," said the channel’s head, Aleksey Pimanov. 

*The captors threatened to kill both men and demanded a ransom of $200,000 from their relatives. They also stole their belongings such as watches, cell phones, money, and Davydov’s wedding ring*. 

Risking their lives, *Davydov didn’t turn off his phone, which recorded all the conversations between the journalists and their captors*. Zvezda TV channel will deliver all the recording to the Investigative Committee, said Pimanov. 

“The recordings contain useful information for our [Russian] law enforcement agencies. *This would be a big surprise for the captors. We know who did it,*” he added. 

Ukraine releases two Russian journalists arrested for ‘spying’ 

This is not the first time journalists from Zvezda TV channel have been detained in Ukraine. *Earlier in June, the National Guard detained video operator Andrey Sushenkov and sound engineer Anton Malyshev at a military roadblock near the city of Slavyansk*. According to their driver, they were blindfolded and handcuffed during a routine check, and then taken to an undisclosed location. They were held captive for two days on accusations of espionage. 

Journalists from a range of media outlets came under fire, some of them even detained, during the conflict in eastern Ukraine. *There have also been reports that Ukrainian troops have fired at people with cameras, as well as people wearing press vests*.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Although you claim to be "neutral," you seem to be defending the Maidan Mob, Kiev junta, and the National Guard punitive military action in the east with all its atrocities. On the other hand, you go out of your way to try to find anything to discredit and attack the seperatists Ukrainians.


Maidan mob (people who came to the streets to show their displeasure with the government) - yes. Kiev junta (right winged politicians who took over when Yanukovich was overthrown) - not. Current government - (legally elected president) - maybe, I don't know. National Guard (Ukrainian Army) - they're just taking orders from the government.

Unlike you, I admit that both sides are as bad as the other one. I'm not going out of my way. I am just pointing out to you that the separatists who you call patriots are also well trained soldiers who are also taking orders and are also doing the same things as the Ukrainian Army. You still think that one side is 100% good and other side is 100% bad. Unlike you, I am not brainwashed and I can see and admit that Ukraine's army is also not innocent here. And I'm not even supporting them. I just said that they're taking orders, but I never said that I support them. Try and quote me on expressing my support for them.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Brain dead *JEN PSAKI* of the U.S. State Department defends the *UKRAINIAN FOREIGN MINISTER* leading a crowd in front of the Russian Embassy in Kiev in the chant, *"PUTIN IS A FUCKER*!"

Part of PSAKI's requirements to take the U.S. State Department job appear to have been to agree to a frontal lobotomy. She also defended *PRIME MINISTER YATSINIUK'S *statement on the *UKRAINIAN GOVERNMENT'S* web page that "*RUSSIANS ARE SUB-HUMANS." *

Hmmm, it seems like I recall a guy named Adolph Hitler saying the same thing in his Plan Barbarossa back in 1941 - only he also included *UKRAINIANS* and *BYELORUSSIANS* in his definition of sub-humans.





17 June 2014, 10:03
Psaki defends Ukrainian FM unsavory remarks

State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki tried to defend some distinctly unsavory remarks by Ukrainian politicians. Ukraine's acting Foreign Minister Andrey Deshchitsa has become embroiled in an unusual diplomatic row after he was caught on camera making abusive remarks about Vladimir Putin outside the Russian embassy in Kiev.


"He's been encouraging calm, encouraging a peaceful resolution, and I would otherwise point you to the Ukrainians on the meaning of the language used, but I think the context here of what effort he was undergoing is an incredibly important part," Psaki said.

Whether Deshchitsa truly succeeded in his aims of quelling the crowd is questionable – the video shows his words being immediately picked up and turned into a football chant.

While the Russian embassy did not get torched, one international incident was replaced with another after an official press release from Prime Minister Arseny Yatsenyuk, in which anti-Kiev people in eastern Ukraine were described as "sub-human" separatists.

"I think the Prime Minister's behavior and his leadership has been consistently in support of a peaceful resolution," *Psaki said, refusing to answer whether she felt okay with the Ukrainian official using the Nazi-like word "subhuman" to describe the Russians*.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

SHOCKING!










New mistake of Psaki. She doesn't know what is the capital of Yamalo-Nenets Autonomous Okrug. SHAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a brain dead moron.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*JEN PSAKI* is right on top of things as usual. She demonstrates her grasp of the situation in the east of Ukraine by being baffled regarding who is using white phosphorous incendiary weapons to fire bomb Slavyansk.





When *JEN PSAKI* can't answer a question she simply calls it ludicrous and goes on to the next question that she can't answer.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*The CSTO is a military alliance that consists of Russia, Belarus, Kazahkstan, Armenia, Tadjikistan, and Kyrgyzstan. Serbia and Afghanistan are observers. Iran is a potential candidate in the future.*

*U.S. policy of invasions and regime changes is finally coming to a head with the attempts to turn Ukraine into another U.S. puppet. The world is rapidly taking sides and falling into opposing armed camps as the statements by Nikolai Bordyuzha indicate. *- Mike 



CSTO will forfeit dialogue with NATO in favor of OSCE

Nikolai Bordyuzha,
Secretary General,
Collective Security Treaty Organization
16 June 17:06 










The Collective Security Treaty Organization is not going to establish a dialogue with NATO. Instead the CSTO will promote interaction with the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe. CSTO Secretary General Nikolai Bordyuzha made the statement at the meeting of speaker of the State Duma of Russia Sergei Naryshkin with heads of the parliament delegations of the CSTO member states in the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly on 16 June, BelTA has learned.

Nikolai Bordyuzha said: “Taking into account the situation the CSTO foreign ministers have spoken in favor of* suspending attempts to establish a dialogue with NATO*. The policy of *promoting further development of interaction with the OSCE* has been recommended for the sake of preserving the negotiation field on the European platform”. *Stronger cooperation with the Shanghai Cooperation Organization and bilateral cooperation with China have been outlined as priorities*. The need to expand the CSTO’s political support with international organizations of Latin America and the Caribbean has been noted. *The development of relations with Iran deserves effort*. The country’s influence in the region is undoubtable, particularly taking into account Afghanistan’s factor, noted the CSTO Secretary General.

In his opinion, the world is in essence on the brink of an open confrontation. “*A number of countries no longer attempt to disguise their actions. They blatantly interfere with domestic affairs of other countries. They attempt to manipulate the public opinion, use economic and financial leverage to influence the governments and the population of such countries*,” said Nikolai Bordyuzha.

*He said that thoroughly tested technologies of color revolutions are widely used to change the policy of nations and lead pro-Western puppet regimes to power. “The unconstitutional coup in Ukraine that has evolved in essence into a civil war is a vivid example of such a revolution*,” said the CSTO Secretary General.

Apart from the situation in Ukraine the CSTO member states also face other challenges and threats originating from Afghanistan, the Near East and the Middle East. When combined, they make up the so-called instability arc, believes the CSTO Secretary General. In his words, the danger of interstate conflicts caused by problems with water and energy supplies, transport isolation, and border irregularities still exists.

The operation of the CSTO charter bodies in spring 2014 took into account the military and political situation evolving in proximity of the CSTO responsibility area. Results of the relevant sessions indicate that *the CSTO member states have a general understanding and a solid will to overcome the problems determined by the current extremely complicated international situation together*, confirmed Nikolai Bordyuzha.

The CSTO Secretary General praised the smooth coordination and unconditional discipline of the bloc in response to the Western countries that implement collective political directives that are sometimes adverse to international relations. “*The proverbial dual standards and blatant distortion of facts are now widely used to shape the public opinion about the processes going on in the world,” *he said.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

You don't Iran in the club

They're a little weird


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

18 June 2014, 21:44

Donetsk miners threaten to take up arms if Kiev continues military operation






_“The people of the DPR will fight. First of all the foreign enemy, and then oligarchs’ turn will come,” TASS cites an official of the self-proclaimed republic as saying_.

Miners from the Donetsk Region in eastern Ukraine will take arms if the Kiev authorities do not stop their military operation in the region within two days, a deputy coal industry minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR), Konstantin Kuznetsov, said Wednesday.

“*Miners have given (the Kiev authorities) two days to stop the so-called "anti-terrorism" operation. Unless that happens, they are taking up arms and are going to defend their land, wives and children,”* Kuznetsov said.

Commenting on the situation in the Donetsk Region, DPR Prime Minister Alexander Borodai told ITAR-TASS that “*it is now absolutely clear to each DPR resident that the Nazi junta is carrying out genocide of the population under the guise of an antiterrorism operation.*”

Borodai said this is a patriotic war for the region’s residents. “The people of the DPR will fight. First of all the foreign enemy, and then oligarchs’ turn will come,” he said.

A rally against combat operations conducted by the Ukrainian military and law enforcers subordinate to Kiev took place in the city of Donetsk on Wednesday. *The event gathered miners from coal mining enterprises of Donetsk, Gorlovka, Yenakiyevo, Snezhnoye and Torez. The rally reportedly numbered 5,000 to 10,000.
*


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Russian Army Ready for Any Developments in Ukraine









_Sergey Shoigu, Minister of Defense of Russian Federation_

MOSCOW, June 18 (RIA Novosti) – The Russian Army is ready for any developments in Ukraine or anywhere in the world and Russian defense industry can quickly replace any imports, including those from Ukraine, Russia’s Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said at a State Duma meeting behind closed doors.

“A question was asked whether our army is ready to defend the motherland in the circumstances of a more complex international situation. We received a positive, life-affirming answer. *Everyone’s ready, combat efficiency is at a high level,*” Mikhail Yemelyanov, first deputy head of A Just Russia parliamentary faction, told RIA Novosti.

He noted that another issue up for discussion was replacement options for imported equipment in the defense industry.

“I asked a colleague of mine how the shortages of supplies from Ukraine will affect our defense capabilities. He said he was confident that they won’t, that everything could be replaced,” said Yemelyanov. According to Shoigu, Russia can replace its military imports relatively quickly, Yemelyanov said.

Another parliamentarian, Vadim Solovyov noted that *“concering the situation in Ukraine it was said that we are ready for any developments, the army is ready to accomplish any task set by the country’s government and the Commander-in-Chief.”*


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Why do people think the Ukraine military are aimlessly shelling at its own people for no apparent reason? They're clearly deployed there to combat the pro-Russian forces. Both sides are destabilising this region.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> Why do people think the Ukraine military are aimlessly shelling at its own people for no apparent reason? They're clearly deployed there to combat the pro-Russian forces. Both sides are destabilising this region.


*There is nothing aimless at all about the Kiev junta's forces shelling and aerial bombing*. This is just as much a punitive action against the civilian supporters of the separatist movement as it is a military action against the armed self-defense forces. 

It's a seige tactic to make the civilian population suffer so that they will pressure the military to surrender. *Air strikes on the downtown areas of the cities controlled by the patriots are not killing fighters - just unarmed, non-combatant civilians*. The fighters are on the outskirts of the cities FIGHTING!

If by now you don't understand the vicious nature of the Western Ukrainians who make up the overwhelming bulk of the newly formed National Guard, then you never will. These guys are killers and are doing what the regular Ukrainian Army refuses to do - kill civilians.

In addition, the personal army of the oligarch Komoisky is also assisting the Kiev junta in the genocide that is taking place.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*AERIAL ATTACK ON DOWNTOWN LUGANSK BY KIEV JUNTA'S FORCES*






*CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL SHELLED BY KIEV JUNTA IN SLAVYANSK*






*KIEV JUNTA SHELLS HOSPITAL IN KRASNY LIMAN*






*KIEV JUNTA DROPS WHITE PHOSPHOROUS INCENDIARY BOMBS ON SLAVYANSK*






*KIEV JUNTA SHELLS RESIDENTIAL AREA IN SLAVYANSK*


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## Panzer (May 31, 2007)

Mr. Gorbe.....I mean Mr. Batko............TEAR DOWN THIS RUSSIA TODAY PROPAGANDA! :homer5 bama3


:lana may disagree though.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

May as well redirect this thread to RT.com


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Panzer said:


> Mr. Gorbe.....I mean Mr. Batko............TEAR DOWN THIS RUSSIA TODAY PROPAGANDA! :homer5 bama3
> 
> 
> :lana may disagree though.



Why? The truth about the U.S. backed ethnic cleansing in eastern Ukraine by the Kiev junta is not to your liking??? The mainstream western media won't report it so that makes it "propaganda???"

Your attitude combined with your screen name point to where your ideological sympathies lie, Herr Hitl.., excuse me, I mean *Panzer*.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Godwin's law, you did it again.

Congrat's, Mike, according to Godwin's law, you lose this argument.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

There is no argument - only the truth and the people who cover it up.

*KIEV JUNTA'S FORCES SHELL RESIDENTIAL AREA AND KILL A 5 YEAR OLD BOY AND HIS MOTHER. ANOTHER ORTHODOX CHURCH SHELLED BY FASCIST SCUM!*


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## Panzer (May 31, 2007)

German tanks have always been called Panzers you dummy. Still are to this day.

Tell me Batko, where do you live anyway? Seems like you have an ideological investment in what Russia does. The Ukraine crisis is just an extension of that. What is your game son?


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Panzer is German for tank

The Nazi's didn't make it up 

OMG THE HEER AND THE LUFTWAFFE STILL EXIST, GERMANY STILL LOVES NAZIS


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

WHAT THE WESTERN MAINSTREAM MEDIA WON'T REPORT:

KIEV JUNTA KILLS CIVILIANS IN LUGANSK


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*BLEEDING UKRAINE*


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Some times you just gotta post snuff films 

Nothing makes me convinced like blown off legs


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Using German words? You're a NAZIIIIIIIIIIII!

Seriously, Batko, you may be some 20-30 years older than me, but can you act like an adult?
Although, on a second thought, that's what you'd expect from an old man on the internet. In that case, keep it up, grampa.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*Let's have a quick look at how Poroshenko's "peace" plan and truce is shaping up. It is doubtful that the independence fighters will "lay down their arms" so they can be killed by the National Guard and Kolomoisky's private mercenary army. - Mike* 

ON FIRST DAY OF POROSHENKO'S "TRUCE" FIGHTING SPILLS OVER TO THE RUSSIAN SIDE OF THE BORDER








[/URL][/IMG]

21.06.2014 - Rostov medical workers are providing assistance to seven people wounded in an exchange of fire near the Russian-Ukrainian border on Friday, acting Rostov region Governor Sergei Bondarev said.

"Seven wounded were revealed overnight, one of them an officer of the Russian customs checkpoint, one Russian citizen, and five [Ukrainian] militiamen," Bondarev said at a governmental emergency situations commission session in Moscow on Saturday, Interfax reports.


21 June 2014, 14:11
Oligarch Kolomoisky going to "finish off" militiamen in east Ukraine despite ceasefire








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21.06.2014: During the working visit of President of Ukraine Petr Poroshenko to Donbass, oligarch Ihor Kolomoisky has openly declared, that he would not obey the President's decree on peaceful settlement, and that his army would "finish off" the militiamen in the South-East of the country in any case. This was confided by a source in the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine on condition of anonymity, RIA Novosti reports.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Ukraine attacking Russia? :maury


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)




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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

MOST POST SOVIET STATES MARK START OF THE GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR WITH REMEMBERANCE OF VICTIMS OF THE NAZI GERMAN INVASION OF JUNE 22, 1941 










The morning of the 22 June 1941 saw the German Army (Wehrmacht) pass the country’s border and invade the USSR. Without officially declaring war, Germany started the armed conflict with the Soviet Union that had been prepared in secrecy under the cover name “Barbarossa undertaking” (Unternehmen Barbarossa). Germany missed the interim target of what she had imagined to be an express war, namely to decidingly crush the Soviet Union by late in 1941. Instead, Germany herself suffered defeat in the battle for Moscow in December 1941. 

If one compares the war Germany began against the Soviet Union 73 years ago on 22 June 1941 with the previous military campaigns, one has to state that Germany planned and translated it into practice differently. *In the eyes of the German leadership, it was not simply a war of arms, but a racist campaign of conquest aiming to create a colonial empire on European soil and to subjugate the Slavic population*. The National Socialist Weltanschauung saw in the Soviet Union and in the political system it embodied not just an ideological enemy. It was rather the Soviet territory that kindled the desires of German “East Imperialism”. *The idea the National Socialists had of the Soviet Union was marked by Anti-Semitism and racism*; accordingly the Soviet leaders were satraps of “the” Jews. It was in 1925 already when Hitler publicly declared the destruction of the Communist movement, the Bolshevism, and of its national territory, to be the objective of his political commitment. 

*Those anti-semitic, racist and imperialist ideas culminated in the Nazis’ concrete plans to give the attack on the Soviet Union the shape of a war of extermination *– a decision of consequence for both, the war events and the occupation policy pursued by the Soviet Union later on. The territory of the Soviet Union was regarded as ‘settlement area’, as “living space” (Lebensraum) to be conquered for its subsequent colonization. The essential motives accounting for war and conquest alike were fabricated by the Nazis themselves, i.e. *the enemy concept (Feindbild) of “Jewish Bolshevism” and the construct of an “inferior” Slavic race*. Accordingly, they considered both, the Jews and the leading social class of the Communists, their political opponents. Before beginning the war, they had set up special task forces to eliminate these “ideological enemies”, forces, who, vested with special authorization, concentrated and* formed mobile killing units mass murdering the civilian population in the occupied regions*. By late in 1941, the number of Jews murdered by the task forces had come up to approximately 500,000 persons. 

*The occupied regions of the Soviet Union fell victim to economic exploitation by Germany who accepted and approved that millions of people died of hunger *– a misuse that culminated in the Leningrad blockade. Intentionally and deliberately abstaining from capturing the town, the Nazis besieged it for two and a half years instead – a siege that resulted in the death of hundreds of thousands of town inhabitants from malnutrition. The immediate consequences the German occupation of the Soviet Union had for the population were an insufficient food supply and hunger. In particular the Soviet prisoners of war starved to death in the makeshift internment camps the Germans had built virtually overnight. 

*The war of annihilation waged against the Soviet Union is looked upon as one of the most outrageous crimes committed by National Socialism today as it cost millions of people their lives*. The Soviet Union had the highest victims’ figures in Second World War statistics. *Minimum estimates speak of 25 million casualties, most of them civilians*. The German-Russian Museum in Berlin-Karlshorst commemorates the war of extermination against the Soviet Union in the original place where Germany capitulated.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

NAZI NAZI NAZI NAZI NAZI NAZI NAZI NAZI










Nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi

nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi

nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi

nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

It doesn't sound to me as a real word anymore.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

3 posts in a row? What? Don't accuse me of spamming. I will just ignore that and post more.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

22 June 15:02 
Click on the following link to see the video including a reenactment of the Battle of Brest Fortress: http://www.tvr.by/eng/news.asp?id=22718&cid=16
Belarus observes Day of Victims of the Great Patriotic War on June 22

Brest, Belarus, Anna Rubleva: Exactly 73 years ago began the war which took the lives of every third Belarusian. The garrison of Brest Fortress opposed the attacks of the enemy for a month despite being surrounded and cut off from any help.

Over 6,000 people came for the festivities. Among them there were passengers of Memory Train, which included veterans from Russia. They lit candles and torches and put wreathes into the water.



22 June 15:04 
Click on the following link to see the video: http://www.tvr.by/eng/news.asp?id=22719&cid=16
Visitors to Victory Plaza commemorate victims of WWII with a moment of silence

Minsk, Belarus: Flowers and wreaths were laid by veterans, students and border guards. The solemn event will be held in all military units.

The new exposition of the "War Museum" includes maps of the battles.

After that an imitation of the attack was simulated for the viewers.

The participants of the movement "Children for Peace" joined the action as well. They remember and tale pride in our glorious past.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*The continued support of Washington and its refusal to recognize the crimes of the fascist Kiev junta have emboldened the Western Ukrainian neo-Nazi element. The mask that hides their Uniate, anti-Eastern Orthodox Church bigotry came off today as 500 hooded fascists attacked church goers at the Lavra Monastary in Kiev.

During the Maidan insurgency I posted reports regarding the anti-Orthodox Church nature of the insurgency. As usual, I was told that there was "no proof" and the usual posters made light of the fascist nature of the coup.

The Western Ukrainians are no longer content to just hold their Uniate religious services for Nazis in Lvov and Ivano-Frankovsk. Feeling invulnerable with the continued support of the West, they attacked one of the most sacred shrines not only of the Orthodox Church in Ukraine, but of ALL Eastern Orthodoxy!

- Mike* 

Kiev nationalists clash with police outside Orthodox monastery

Published time: June 23, 2014 01:52






Ukraine nationalists have clashed with police outside the citadel of the Orthodox Church in Kiev, the Pechersk Lavra, as the churchgoers and monks were about to hold a peace service praying for an end to violence in Ukraine.

According to various media reports up to *500 ultra-nationalists, representing the Right Sector and Ukraine's Patriots neo-nazi movements, clashed with around 100 policemen in an attempt to disrupt the Procession of the Cross at one of the centers of the Eastern Orthodox monasticism in Eastern Europe*.










The procession was supposed to start at noon local time in the Holy Dormition Cathedral of the Kiev-Pechersk Lavra and end up at the monument of the Unknown Soldier.* Participants in the Procession of the Cross were mostly elderly. 
*
Ultra-nationalists claimed that “separatists” were planning to use the event as a chance to gather and form a “Kiev's People Republic” and used a “few dozen grandmas” to disguise their plan. 

After the armed ultra-nationalist crowd arrived at the gates of the convent, the Lavra was forced to shut fearing clashes. 

“*After the crowd of activists with baseball bats and hammers, some wearing bulletproof vests arrived at the Lavra, the entrance and exit to the shrine was closed*. According to law enforcement, this was done to avoid clashes,” spokesman for Ukrainian Orthodox Church, Fr. Georgiy Kovalenko shared his account of the events surrounding the procession service on his Facebook page. 










The clergy asked the angry mob – some of whom claimed they came to the monastery “to pray” – to lay down their arms. But when asked to cite a prayer, according to Kovalenko, they could not remember a single one. 

*Around 250 people were forced to seek shelter and hold the procession inside the walls of the monastery *while around 100 law enforcement officers secured the premises. It is still unclear how many people were injured in the clashes outside the walls of the monastery. 

Kiev Pechersk Lavra issued a statement after the incident saying that according to Appeal Holy Synod, *the Ukrainian Orthodox Church “as always calls on all parties to the peaceful resolution of conflicts and enhanced prayer.” *It reminded that the monastic life should not be disturbed or used for political purposes.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Russian Pizza Chain Starts Pizza Deliveries by Drone

Source: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/tv/russian-pizza-chain-starts-pizza-deliveries-by-drone-11572

:mark:


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Over 40 Children Killed Amid Clashes in Battle-Stricken Eastern Ukraine








[/URL][/IMG]
_Consequences of a massive artillery attack by Kiev forces on Slavyansk_

KIEV, June 23 (RIA Novosti) — *More than 40 children have died from shrapnel and bullet wounds in the eastern part of Ukraine’s Donetsk Basin (Donbas)* that has been swept by violent clashes, the head of the country’s parliamentary committee on health said Monday.

“Now the numbers have started on the deaths of children: more than 40 children have died from shrapnel wounds. That is from shrapnel after explosions in windows next to which children were located. Innocent children have been hit with bullets to their hearts, which brings immediate death," Tatyana Bahteyeva stated, as quoted by Ukraine’s UNN information service.

Russian Children’s Rights Ombudsman Pavel Astakhov said *Saturday a bus carrying 36 Ukrainian children was shelled while crossing the border*. Earlier on Friday, Astakhov also said at least five children had lost their lives as a result of the extensive military operation in eastern Ukraine.

United Nations children’s fund UNICEF reported in early June that seven children had been injured in the fighting in the east of Ukraine since May 9. UNICEF noted the crisis is having an increasing impact on children and urged all the parties to stop the violence.

There has been a dramatic increase in the number of refugees crossing the border to Russia since the beginning of June, as *Kiev authorities have stepped up their military operation, which has deprived families of peace and claimed the lives of children*. The violent clashes between the national army and fighters for independence have resulted in hundreds of casualties, including civilians. Residents of the conflict-ridden areas have asked to evacuate their children and find them asylum.

Over 200 temporary accommodation centers have been established in southern and central Russia for the refugees, including tent camps. There are currently 12,800 people at temporary accommodation centers, including over 5,300 children.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

BBC
NEWS EUROPE

23 June 2014 Last updated at 00:14 ET 

Ukraine: Common history pulls in aid from west Russia

By Steve Rosenberg

BBC News, Shakhty








[/URL][/IMG]
_Cities in Russia have staged demonstrations in support of pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine_

*The town of Shakhty is less than an hour's drive from Russia's border with Ukraine.* 

The name means "mines" - a reference to the coalmines that once employed so many, but have now shut. 

On the edge of town is a tiny Soviet-era museum about the history of the coal industry and the glorious miners of the River Don. 

Today, the museum has been turned into an aid centre. Inside there are volunteers packing clothes, food, and medicines for people fleeing the conflict in eastern Ukraine. 

Local Cossacks are co-ordinating the relief effort. 

A deputy Cossack commander called Andrei draws my attention to an old map of Rostov region and eastern Ukraine up on the wall. It dates back more than a century. 

"*This all used to be our land, the land of the Don Cossacks," Andrei tells me, pointing to Ukraine's Luhansk region. "This is our common history, it's our people. That's why we're helping*."








[/URL][/IMG]
_The Don region has a proud tradition of mining _

*'Armed charity'*

It's not just the Cossacks who've been remembering the past. 

Russian politicians - including the president - have been publicly stating that what is now south-east Ukraine was, under the Tsars, a Russian region called Novorossiya. 

It helps explain why some Russians have been providing more than just humanitarian aid to those across the border. 

About 80km (50 miles) from Shakhty, in the Russian city of Rostov, I talk to Yuri. 

A long green mask and dark glasses hide his face. He's agreed to this midnight meeting to tell me about his group's activities. 

*Via the internet Yuri has been recruiting Russians to fight in Ukraine on the side of separatist rebels*. He says it's to protect the people of Novorossiya. 

On its website, the group recently advertised for tank drivers, helicopter pilots and for people who know how to operate rocket launchers. 

*Kiev has identified this organisation and its website as one of the main recruiting grounds for Russian fighters in Ukraine*. 

"There is a saying," Yuri tells me. "You can't do good without using your fists. Sometimes it's necessary to take up arms to protect those who need defending. We call it 'armed charity'." 

*'Nothing to lose'*

The group says it was their volunteers who led the attack on Donetsk airport last month. 

During the fierce battle, the insurgents suffered heavy losses. Later more than 30 bodies were repatriated to Russia. 

"*Different categories of people become volunteers*," Yuri explains. 

"*They can be young people or much older. During the battle for Donetsk airport, one of the volunteers was 56 years old. He showed everyone how it should be done. The country can be proud of people like this*. 

"*Some of the volunteers are quite well off, they've giving up the good life to do this. Others have nothing to lose*." 

*Yuri denies that the Russian government backs the volunteers, or that they receive weapons from the Russian army*. 

How, then, does he explain reports of separatist fighters riding Russian tanks? 

"Russian tanks are like Kalashnikov rifles, you can find them all over the place even as far away as Thailand," Yuri says. "They're very popular for armed conflicts. Yes, they're made in Russia. But who knows how they got there?" 








[/URL][/IMG]

*Nationalist sentiment* 

Moscow has repeatedly denied sending troops or military hardware across the border. 

But Western governments maintain that among the fighters in eastern Ukraine are professionals funded, equipped and supported by Moscow. 

What's more, in recent days Nato and Washington have accused Moscow of massing troops on the border. 

"Unfortunately, there is mounting evidence that shows a build-up of Russian military forces near the border with Ukraine," White House spokesman Josh Earnest said on Friday.

"Contrary to the statements by Kremlin officials we do not see any evidence that the Russian military units arriving to the region are connected to any type of border security mission…. We will not accept any use of Russian military forces under any pretext in eastern Ukraine."

*It's not only Russian volunteers who have taken up arms.

At a hostel near Rostov I meet a group of Ukrainian citizens, who've fled the violence. 
*
*Most of the people here have male family members who've stayed behind in eastern Ukraine to become militants*. They blame Ukrainian government forces for the deaths of civilians. 

Robert tells me about his son who has become a rebel in their home town of Luhansk. 

"*I hope my son kills 2,000 of those Kiev bandits*," Robert says. "If he does, I'll build a statue to him. He'll be my hero." 

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko believes his peace plan can end the fighting. But that won't be easy. 

This conflict has opened a Pandora's box of nationalist sentiment and hatred which may now be difficult to control.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)




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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*The Lugansk and Donetsk republics officially united into a confederation yesterday while the Kiev junta signed an economic suicide pact for the rest of Ukraine by joining the EU today. (See following post) - Mike
*
Ukraine's Luhansk, Donetsk Republics Ratify Union of People's Republics Constitution

DONETSK, June 26 (RIA Novosti) - The parliament of the union of the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk republics ratified a constitutional act that proclaims the creation of the Union of the People’s Republics of Donetsk and Luhansk during its first session on Thursday.

*The constitutional act, which was passed unanimously, states that the Union of the People’s Republics (UPR) is “a democratic confederation and state based on justice” that acknowledges and protects the equal rights of citizens*. According to the constitution, the UPR is open to the accession of other states and is a denuclearized zone.

On Tuesday, the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk republics declared the official union of their constitutions and the formal creation of Novorossiya as a confederate Union of People's Republics.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*The idiots who were installed by Washington as the Ukraine's "government" have, in effect, signed Ukraine's economic suicide pact by agreeing to a free trade zone as a first step toward EU membership.

In addition to being enslaved by massive IMF debt obligations, fighting a losing war to force the east to join the illegal government of the Kiev junta, now the geniuses in Kiev have defacto eliminated their tariff free trade with their largest trading partner - the "Customs Union," i.e. Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Armenia.

Once the agreement with the EU goes into effect in the Fall, the Customs Union will impose tariffs on imports from Ukraine to protect Customs Union goods. In addition, what's left of the Ukrainian economy will not be in a position to compete with incoming duty free EU goods and products. Eventually, Ukraine's biggest export will be workers to EU countries while foreign capital takes over its remaining industries and concerns.

The more I think about it, the smarter Putin looks to me. I admit being less than happy with his decision not to invade Ukraine and sweep away the Kiev junta. However, when looking at the big picture, that would give the West the opportunity to point another finger at Russia and say that it was Moscow's fault the Kiev junta's government did not succeed. 

By holding back and letting nature take its course there will more than likely be another revolution in Ukraine as the standard of living continues to drop precipitously and the Ukrainian people continue to suffer more economic hardships.

While this is probably the smartest strategy, it is costing the lives many people in the east. And, will end up economically destroying the lives of tens of millions across Ukraine.

Either way, in my opinion, Ukraine is rapidly becoming an economic basket case and a failed state.

- Mike* 

Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia Ink Association Deals with EU, Create Free-Trade Zone









_Petro "The Pig" Poroshenko takes time for a photo op with Herman Van Rompuy and Jose Manuel Barroso in Brussels on June 27, 2014 after signing Ukraine's economic death warrant_

BRUSSELS, June 27 (RIA Novosti) – Georgia, Moldova, Ukraine and the European Union signed association agreements that foresee the creation of a free-trade zone with the EU during a summit in Brussels Friday.

Kiev has only signed the economic part of its association agreement. Following the political upheaval in Ukraine, the EU’s heads of state and governments decided to split the association agreement into two parts. The political part of the agreement was signed on March 21.

The economic section of the agreement stipulates the free-trade zone is to go into effect in the fall, after it is ratified by the Ukrainian parliament. The Ukrainian Foreign Ministry hopes the legislature will approve the EU association agreement in July.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said last week that Moscow had no objection to Ukraine’s association agreement with the EU and was not planning to impose any sanctions on Kiev. Russian President Vladimir Putin said, for Ukraine, the association with the EU will be an ordeal, as its goods are unlikely to be competitive on the Russian market.

In response to Georgia’s EU integration bid, earlier in June Putin promised the European Commission that Moscow does not intend any negative action against the country if it opts for association with the EU.

As for Moldova, Russian officials warned the deal with the EU might mean losing the CIS market and would be a blow to the two countries’ bilateral relations.

Russia has free-trade agreements with Ukraine and Moldova in the CIS framework while Georgia, which is not a member of the Commonwealth of Independent States, is still party to several CIS trade agreements.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

I like how this is largely one man talking to himself

LIKE PUTIN'S OFFICE 

BA BUM ISSH


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

stevefox1200 said:


> I like how this is largely one man talking to himself
> 
> LIKE PUTIN'S OFFICE
> 
> BA BUM ISSH


Reminds me of the Bloody Boards. Buffy the Vampire Slayer fan talking to herself. For years she was the only user on the forum that she created. Over 27 000 posts talking only to herself. And those posts were paragraphs after endless paragraphs.

This thread is one man show. That's how many people read it. Only him.


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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

hey guys if you oppose batko...


YOURE A NAZI


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*Apparently, porky Poroshenko has absolutely no control over the Right Sector troops of the National Guard who have shelled Salvyansk and other areas killing civilians during this whole week of the "truce." - Mike* 






A long and bloody battle has been raging near the eastern Ukrainian city of Slavyansk despite Kiev’s ceasefire. Self-defense fighters claim to have killed a whole platoon of Kiev’s National Guard, while the latter claim to have destroyed a militia tank.

READ MORE: Anti-Kiev forces in E. Ukraine pledge ceasefire till Monday 

The Ukrainian forces shelled the outskirts of Slavyansk on Friday and hit the city with artillery fire, say reports from the scene, quoted by RIA Novosti. Following heavy shelling, Ukrainian troops took over a checkpoint seized by the self-defense overnight, witnesses said. 

Several shells hit civilian houses in the nearby village of Golubovka, killing a 47-year-old woman and her 26-year-old son. The two reportedly had no time to take cover from the attack as their house was hit by the first shell that fell in the area. 

Intense fighting on the outskirts of Slavyansk overnight into Friday was earlier confirmed by both sides. 

The long and bloody battle centered on a checkpoint manned by the National Guard – *troops loyal to Kiev that in March were formed from former and serving Ukrainian troops, Maidan self-defense squads, radical groups taking part in protests and from other volunteers, many of whom come from western Ukraine*. The Slavyansk self-defense claims that *the checkpoint was used as a strategic point in the relentless shelling of the city by the National Guard, which they say has continued despite the ceasefire*. 

Speaking to LifeNews on camera, the commander of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic’s self-defense forces, Igor Strelkov, has claimed that “one [Ukrainian National Guard] platoon was definitely destroyed” in the fighting. *Strelkov laid out a pile of documents that he said belonged to the deceased Ukrainian troops, showing that more than 20 troops had been killed in the fighting*.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

I guess the Eastern government is not really responsible since the their troops are acting without their orders

You can't really blame one side for its "malcontents" 

nudge nudge


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## Muerte al fascismo (Feb 3, 2008)

I'm glad the Ukrainian Government isn't getting bullied back into Russia determining what they can and can't do. Their steps at closer integration with the EU is a necessary and positive move. You only have to look at Poland and how it has brought much needed skills, outside capital and technology to the nation. Its made huge strides since the dark days, which a lot can be attributed to the EU association. While it still isn't a complete success story, its amazing what they have achieved. considering from where they started.

Pull aside the classic RT propaganda and most economists will call this a good move.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

To be honest, I live in a country that joined the EU quite recently (in 2004) and I really don't think it was a good move. Sure, it has its upsides and downsides, but almost one million people have left the country since joining EU. One million people in ten years. Just think about it.

But why do countries even have to choose? Can't they go their own way?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Muerte al fascismo said:


> I'm glad the Ukrainian Government isn't getting bullied back into Russia determining what they can and can't do. Their steps at closer integration with the EU is a necessary and positive move. You only have to look at Poland and how it has brought much needed skills, outside capital and technology to the nation. Its made huge strides since the dark days, which a lot can be attributed to the EU association. While it still isn't a complete success story, its amazing what they have achieved. considering from where they started.
> 
> Pull aside the classic RT propaganda and most economists will call this a good move.


I don't live in the EU, so I can't speak from personal experience. However, a number of our posters on this thread that do reside in countries that belong to that union have made very negative comments about it. That includes posters who are not sympathetic to the independence movement of the freedom fighters in Ukraine and dislike Russia.

I guess Poland is an EU success story if one considers a *12.5% unemployment rate and the main export being people *looking for work in other countries a "success." Poland's Central Statistics Office puts *the number of Poles who emigrated and are living in other EU countries at 2.1 million, i.e. 6% of the country's population*. 

A look at other EU success stories like Greece and Spain would seem to indicate that the "RT propaganda" that you mentioned is not just propaganda, but pretty much the truth about the EU.

I'm sure that Ukraine moving towards the EU will be profitable for Poroshenko and the other oligarchs running the country. However, *along with becoming enslaved to the IMF with massive unpayable debt this is going to turn Ukraine into an economic wasteland*. Wages, pensions, and social services are already being cut as per the orders of the IMF. Moving into lockstep with EU regulations will further hurt the average working person.

If Ukraine had joined the Customs Union it would be getting natural gas at *$160 *per 1,000 cubic meters as does Belarus, not at the *$385 *international price. Most of Ukraine's exports go to the countries of the Customs Union *DUTY FREE*. That will end this Autumn when the EU agreement goes into effect, because the Customs Union countries will have to protect their economies from cheap EU goods flowing in. Also, back in February before the coup Russia offered $5 billion in aid, $15 billion in interest free loans, and membership in the CU with recalculated gas debt.

The decision to move toward the EU was *NOT* made with the interests of the Ukrainian people in mind. It is strictly a political move that Washington's puppet government in Kiev made to make their masters happy and line their own pockets at the expense of the Ukrainian people.

Now Ukraine doesn't have to be "bullied" by Moscow. *It will be "bullied" plenty by the IMF, Washington, and Brussels.
*

- Mike


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

The Manowarrior said:


> To be honest, I live in a country that joined the EU quite recently (in 2004) and I really don't think it was a good move. Sure, it has its upsides and downsides, but almost one million people have left the country since joining EU. One million people in ten years. Just think about it.
> 
> But why do countries even have to choose? Can't they go their own way?


Most nations th*at joined the EU di*d so to try and stay "relevant" in the current world

You have to keep in mind that most European nations are the size of states and territories of some of the *bigger* nations and they *just* can't compete when it comes to resources, *military *sizes and economic strength but the idea behind uniting was to do so 

They problem *is its very half done* with nations* wanting* all the benefits of being *independent* with all the* benefits* of being a union with none of the draw backs 

P.S. Notice* how I bold random words* to make my point


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## Panzer (May 31, 2007)

stevefox1200 said:


> Most nations th*at joined the EU di*d so to try and stay "relevant" in the current world
> 
> You have to keep in mind that most European nations are the size of states and territories of some of the *bigger* nations and they *just* can't compete when it comes to resources, *military *sizes and economic strength but the idea behind uniting was to do so
> 
> ...


Yup. Just because the EU has had it's struggles, doesn't mean the idea of the EU is bad. If every country just gave up because of problems adjusting, we wouldn't have any countries or borders would constantly be changing. 

But I would take EU protection over a pseudo Soviet Union any day of the week.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)




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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Kiev junta's propaganda machine got the surprise of its life when it invited British journalist Mark Franchetti to talk about his experiences while on the front lines in eastern Ukraine. 

Franchetti is a highly experienced journalist who is by no stretch of the imagination "pro-Russian." In fact, he has been a critic of Moscow for most of his career. So, the junta's television people were dumbfounded when he told of very few Russians in the ranks of the Donetsk/Lugansk troops saying that most were local Ukrainian people, including women. Franchetti's account contradicted everything the Kiev junta's propaganda machine is spouting.

This is *NOT* an RT video. *It is a video of the broadcast on Ukrainian state television with English subtitles*. From what I could hear and read, the English subtitles are pretty much what Franchetti is saying.

- Mike


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## Muerte al fascismo (Feb 3, 2008)

> I don't live in the EU, so I can't speak from personal experience. However, a number of our posters on this thread that do reside in countries that belong to that union have made very negative comments about it. That includes posters who are not sympathetic to the independence movement of the freedom fighters in Ukraine and dislike Russia.
> 
> I guess Poland is an EU success story if one considers a 12.5% unemployment rate and the main export being people looking for work in other countries a "success." Poland's Central Statistics Office puts the number of Poles who emigrated and are living in other EU countries at 2.1 million, i.e. 6% of the country's population.​


You're speaking in Hyperbole again. Cross-check this with World Bank or EU records if you need too, but a year before accession, Poland's GDP was roughly $222 Billion. In 2013 it was around $520 Billion. Its GDP per capita grew at a similar exponential rate. It is now the 6th Largest economy in the EU-Zone. It was also one of the few EU economies to continue to grow despite the financial crisis engulfing the region

Do you think the workers that leave just stay in their chosen EU destination? On top of foreign remittances they broaden their skills base by the nature of the EU and its border-less education initiatives. Under communism, they never had the chance to be as well-rounded a worker. Upon return these skilled workers have utilized this knowledge to transform their economy.

For sure the unemployment rate is unacceptable, but I never stated this to be the complete success story. Yet as the Polish economy continues to grow it is an inevitability that wages will rise, as they negotiate from a fiscal position of strength, as that is the only way to keep skilled workers. In time this will result in a burgeoning middle-class, who in turn will create the small-to medium sized businesses that will gradually erode the unemployment rate. On top of this, the increasing number of graduates studying outside the country will return and filter this knowledge back into society. With EU subsidies and continued investment in education, the Polish workforce will transform into a highly valued commodity, which again will reduce the unemployment rate. 

You mention Greece and Spain, but with some similarities with Ukraine, Greece suffered from an inefficient state-dominated economy, where for too long it has relied on a system of patronage and nepotism, complimented by a bloated civil service. It has also failed to administer an effective system of tax collection. You could argue Greece collapsed due to its failure to reform, using short-term political gain, at the expense of long-term Greek Prosperity.

Spain's collapse was unique due to its over-reliance on one area of the economy, namely the housing and tourism sector. 




> A look at other EU success stories like Greece and Spain would seem to indicate that the "RT propaganda" that you mentioned is not just propaganda, but pretty much the truth about the EU.
> 
> I'm sure that Ukraine moving towards the EU will be profitable for Poroshenko and the other oligarchs running the country. However, along with becoming enslaved to the IMF with massive unpayable debt this is going to turn Ukraine into an economic wasteland. Wages, pensions, and social services are already being cut as per the orders of the IMF. Moving into lockstep with EU regulations will further hurt the average working person.


I don't think you understand the Ukrainian financial position. Its already in a quagmire of high-debt, high levels of inefficiency and unaffordable domestic subsidies. This is largely due to subsequent Ukrainian leaders refusing to address basic fiscal errors. Naftogaz is a prime example of a state-owned company, that is a loss-making enterprise that could benefit from foreign investment. You only have to ask a handful of Ukrainian citizens that, much like Greece, its civil service is bloated, corrupt and completely in need of reforming. One of the primary motivations for the Kiev revolution was protesting against the large-scale corruption.

Now this doesn't even factor in the shadow-economy, which often ran with the consent of previous governments. The government's tax collection is a deliberate joke.



> If Ukraine had joined the Customs Union it would be getting natural gas at $160 per 1,000 cubic meters as does Belarus, not at the $385 international price. Most of Ukraine's exports go to the countries of the Customs Union DUTY FREE. That will end this Autumn when the EU agreement goes into effect, because the Customs Union countries will have to protect their economies from cheap EU goods flowing in. Also, back in February before the coup Russia offered $5 billion in aid, $15 billion in interest free loans, and membership in the CU with recalculated gas debt.


Once again Russia is simply bullying a nation into accepting Russian hegemony and maintaining a parent-child relationship where the Ukraine will never fully develop. Using its economic might via the proxy of its state owned company, Russia has deliberately set prices it knows Ukraine can not meet, with the aim to push it back into its sphere of influence. Kiev government have seen how the Polish have benefited and knows it is the only way for Post-Communist nations to move forward.



> The decision to move toward the EU was NOT made with the interests of the Ukrainian people in mind. It is strictly a political move that Washington's puppet government in Kiev made to make their masters happy and line their own pockets at the expense of the Ukrainian people.
> 
> Now Ukraine doesn't have to be "bullied" by Moscow. It will be "bullied" plenty by the IMF, Washington, and Brussels.


No it sees potential EU Membership and long-term reliable trading partners. It has as a chance to move its economy into the 21st century, by utilizing the freedom of movement to gain key skills and use potential EU subsidies to modernize and streamline its businesses and infrastructure. 

It may in the short-term have to go to the IMF, but you can thank Putin for sabotaging its economy and choking it at every opportunity.



The Manowarrior said:


> To be honest, I live in a country that joined the EU quite recently (in 2004) and I really don't think it was a good move. Sure, it has its upsides and downsides, but almost one million people have left the country since joining EU. One million people in ten years. Just think about it.
> 
> But why do countries even have to choose? Can't they go their own way?


The EU has drawbacks, partly economic, but mainly political. That debate is probably best for another thread.

TBH the situation is frustrating. They should have the right to self-determination, but Obama and Putin seem to want to relive the cold-war. It's always the other between the two worlds that become the battlefield for their chess-match.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Muerte al fascismo said:


> You're speaking in Hyperbole again. Cross-check this with World Bank or EU records if you need too, but a year before accession, Poland's GDP was roughly $222 Billion. In 2013 it was around $520 Billion. Its GDP per capita grew at a similar exponential rate. It is now the 6th Largest economy in the EU-Zone. It was also one of the few EU economies to continue to grow despite the financial crisis engulfing the region


I don't think that I'm making exagerrations at all. If things are so good in Poland how come so many people left??? Most people don't pack up and leave their country unless they are in dire economic straights and forced to seek a livelihood elsewhere. All your statistics look good on paper, but in fact, whom do they benefit? The wealthy are making out great. But, the reality of the situation is that the working people are taking a beating.




Muerte al fascismo said:


> *Do you think the workers that leave just stay in their chosen EU destination?* On top of foreign remittances they broaden their skills base by the nature of the EU and its border-less education initiatives. Under communism, they never had the chance to be as well-rounded a worker. Upon return these skilled workers have utilized this knowledge to transform their economy.


*Based on Polish statistics it would seem so*. At the height of the flight from the country 2.3 million Poles lived outside Poland. Today 2.1 million still remain in other EU countries. It would appear that despite their "becoming well rounded workers" who have "broadened their skill sets" there are still no jobs for them to return to in Poland.

Based on comments made in posts on this thread, it appears to be even worse in other countries. Tomas mentioned that one million people have picked up and left their motherland in the Baltics. Even if he was refering to the combined emigration of all three Baltic nations, that is a huge figure for a region with that small a population to start off. 




Muerte al fascismo said:


> For sure the unemployment rate is unacceptable, but I never stated this to be the complete success story. Yet as the Polish economy continues to grow it is an inevitability that wages will rise, as they negotiate from a fiscal position of strength, as that is the only way to keep skilled workers. In time this will result in a burgeoning middle-class, who in turn will create the small-to medium sized businesses that will gradually erode the unemployment rate. On top of this, the increasing number of graduates studying outside the country will return and filter this knowledge back into society. With EU subsidies and continued investment in education, the Polish workforce will transform into a highly valued commodity, which again will reduce the unemployment rate.


Who's speaking in hyperbole now? All this sounds great on paper, but has not come to fruition in reality. And, judging by the continuing problems of most of the EU countries and the EU as a whole, it never will.




Muerte al fascismo said:


> I don't think you understand the Ukrainian financial position. Its already in a quagmire of high-debt, high levels of inefficiency and unaffordable domestic subsidies. This is largely due to subsequent Ukrainian leaders refusing to address basic fiscal errors. Naftogaz is a prime example of a state-owned company, that is a loss-making enterprise that could benefit from foreign investment. You only have to ask a handful of Ukrainian citizens that, much like Greece, its civil service is bloated, corrupt and completely in need of reforming. One of the primary motivations for the Kiev revolution was protesting against the large-scale corruption.
> 
> Now this doesn't even factor in the shadow-economy, which often ran with the consent of previous governments. The government's tax collection is a deliberate joke.



I understand Ukraine's economic and social situation very well. The country's present economic condition is due to the rape of the Ukrainian economy by a handfull of well positioned, unscrupulous people that started from day one of the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Call them oligarchs or whatever you want, but they are the ones who have driven the Ukrainian economy into the ground over the past two and a half decades. They are also the ones who are in control of the country right now. The "president" is one, and evil bastards like Komoisky with his private army of thugs and all the governors of the regions are also oligarchs. 

I was witness to the plundering of the Ukrainian economy up until 1996. After returning to the States I kept up on the situation through my wife's correspondence with her friends and relatives in Kharkov.

Just as a side note, the above pillage of Ukraine's economy was done by native Ukrainians, not Russians. Why do you think Ukraine got such a bad natural gas deal with Russia? That loyal patriot, Yulia Tymoshenko, made the deal and lined her own pockets under the table in the process!




Muerte al fascismo said:


> Once again Russia is simply bullying a nation into accepting Russian hegemony and maintaining a parent-child relationship where the Ukraine will never fully develop. Using its economic might via the proxy of its state owned company, Russia has deliberately set prices it knows Ukraine can not meet, with the aim to push it back into its sphere of influence. Kiev government have seen how the Polish have benefited and knows it is the only way for Post-Communist nations to move forward.


When was Russia "bullying" Ukraine over the past 23 years since the dissolution of the USSR? Since 1992 Ukraine has been independent and responsible for its own myriad economic failures under the corrupt nationalistic governments of Kuchma and then Yushchenko/Tymoshenko.

After the overthrow of the elected government and the Kiev junta's stated agenda of joining the West's economic sphere of influence, why should Russia give Ukraine discounts on gas or anything else? Ukraine couldn't pay its gas bills prior to the price rise to the international rate of $385 per 1,000 cubic meters and owed around $3.5 billion for the gas they were getting under the discounted prices. 

"You can't have your cake and eat it, too!" If Ukraine wants to go with the West and not the Customs Union then they will have to pay the going international rate for natural gas. They will also lose all their duty free privileges when exporting to Customs Union countries, i.e Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Armenia. 

This is not bullying by Russia. It's called capitalism, i.e. pay for what you buy and have equitable trade with partners who work with you, not against you.

The Kiev junta made the wrong choice. It signed its own economic death warrant. Russia doesn't have to interfere. It just has to sit back and watch the Ukraine disintegrate as the IMF loans and EU regulations squeeze it like a boa constrictor until the people revolt. I give it two years at the most before we see another Maidan type insurgency.

- Mike


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Panzer said:


> Yup. Just because the EU has had it's struggles, doesn't mean the idea of the EU is bad. If every country just gave up because of problems adjusting, we wouldn't have any countries or borders would constantly be changing.
> 
> But I would take EU protection over a pseudo Soviet Union any day of the week.


There is nothing inherently wrong with the EU, yes, but it _does_ override national sovereignty. A collective Europe may seem utopian on paper, but there is way too much disparity in order for it to function and work accordingly. There is nothing wrong with integration, but many envision the EU as the strive towards a borderless Europe, and society is simply not at that stage yet. Just like we're not at the stage of being multicultural since we're seeing a vast backlash towards the political philosophy. The recent surge of far-right political groups in Europe, predominately run on the notions of nationalism and emblems, is a result of the EU becoming too expansive and too open in its discourse.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*Belarus' Independence Day holiday is a celebration of the day of independence from the Nazi occupation and all its horrors. One out of every three Byelorussians perished at the hands of the Nazis - 3 million people. This is the biggest holiday of the year for the Byelorussian people. *
- Mike

BELARUS PREPARES TO CELEBRATE ITS INDEPENDENCE DAY TOMORROW - JULY 3RD

*FROM PRESIDENT LUKASHNKO'S ADDRESS AT THE OPENING OF THE NEW "MUSEUM OF THE GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR" IN MINSK*

MINSK, 2 July (BelTA) – Attempts to adjust history to match specific political goals and attempts to steal the Great Victory are inadmissible. Belarus President Alexander Lukashenko made the statement at the opening of the new premises of the Belarusian State Museum of Great Patriotic War History on 2 July, BelTA has learned.

“Our people sincerely loathe blatant lies about the war. They loathe various pseudo historians, *who make traitors look like heroes and make conquerors look like liberators*. We loathe those, who are as lost to shame as to adjust the history to match specific political goals and steal the Great Victory from our nation. We have rebuffed and will decisively rebuff such pillagers in defense of our most important historical legacy,” stressed the Belarusian leader.

Alexander Lukashenko underlined that Belarus has always been against attempts to distort the truth about the war and *became the first country in the world to create a Great Patriotic War Museum*. The decision to create the museum was made during one of the hardest periods of the war when Belarus was still occupied. “But the people's faith in the victory of truth and goodness was so strong and unbending!” remarked the head of state.

According to the President, at present the number of monuments and memorials dedicated to the Great Patriotic War in Belarus exceeds 9,000 and *not one has been destroyed, desecrated or forgotten*.

“Our common holy place is the Brest Fortress. It attracts hundreds of thousands of people who want to learn the heroic history. Khatyn's bells toll for the residents of the villages that the Nazi and their henchmen have incinerated. Founded in June 2014, the memorial in Trostenets is a tribute to victims of the death camps that covered the lands occupied by the Nazis like black webs,” noted Alexander Lukashenko.

The President thanked architects, construction workers, museum personnel and all those, who had taken part in creating and fleshing out this temple of the people's memory. “*Delivering the complete truth about the war to future generations is its only mission*,” said the head of state.

Alexander Lukashenko expressed gratitude to veterans for their great deeds. “We will do everything we can so that new generations would never forget about the true heroes of the Great Patriotic War,” assured the Belarusian leader.



*PRESIDENTS LUKASHENKO & PUTIN PLACE WREATHS AT THE VICTORY OBELISK IN MINSK, THEN ATTEND THE OPENING OF THE NEW MUSEUM OF THE GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR.*






The Russian President will take part in the events dedicated to the 70th anniversary of Belarus' liberation from the German-fascist invaders and the Independence Day. He proceeded to the "Minsk, the Hero City" obelisk straightaway, where Alyaksandr Lukashenka was waiting for him. They put flowers to the monument and went to the Museum, where they watched the exhibition and talked to the war veterans, BELTA informs.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The US Department of State believes that the Ukrainian military operations in the east of the country are adequate, spokesperson Jen Psaki said at a briefing in Washington. *According to US opinion, operations of the Ukrainian security forces have a moderate and restrained character*.

*KIEV'S "MODERATION AND RESTRAINT" DEMONSTRATED IN OBLITERATION OF VILLAGE AND KILLING OF NON-COMBATANT CIVILIANS*





*FUNERAL OF CIVILIANS MURDRED IN SLAVYANSK BY KIEV JUNTA'S TROOPS*






‘Thanks, Ukraine Air Force’: Bombarded villagers accuse Kiev of killing civilians

Published time: July 03, 2014 08:51 
Edited time: July 03, 2014 10:42 

_Click on the following link to get to the video at top of page:
_http://rt.com/news/170104-ukraine-lugansk-shelling-airstrike/

The village of Kondrashovka in eastern Ukraine lies devastated after shelling by Kiev troops which killed seven people. Bodies torn to pieces are strewn across the settlement and those who survived are asking: why did Kiev kill their families?

Shells devastate entire streets in eastern Ukrainian town 

At least five shells hit the settlement, destroying an entire street in the peaceful Lugansk region community, 25km from the city of Lugansk. 

Dramatic RT footage shows the ravaged village, including a local resident’s backyard which was literally transformed into a grave. 

“They killed my mother, and my father is injured. I took him to hospital,” Aleksandr Mironenko told RT’s Marina Finoshina, one of the few journalists to report from the scene. 

Aleksandr was desperately going around the place, showing pieces of human flesh scattered all across the property. 

“Come here - can you see this? It's a human body which has been torn to pieces. Let's go and film some more, I'll show you. Bodies everywhere, obviously all of them are terrorists!” he said sarcastically through tears. 

Just next door, Kondrashovka residents are telling a tragic story of their friend, who lost his 5-year-old son. 

“He celebrated his son’s fifth birthday yesterday, and today, the boy's leg was cut off – I don’t know if he's alive or not,” said Sergey, a neighbor. 

“No, no, he died, said another man. 

“He died? Yes. Then he died,” adds Sergey. 

Few of the village residents were left unharmed by the shelling. One of ‘the lucky ones,’ Andrey, said his family was not home when the shelling started. However, his property was badly damaged. He showed RT the holes from the shells in the fence. 

“What do I think? ‘Thank you, Ukrainian Air Force’,” he said, adding that his family would have died had they been there when the attack hit. 

Stunned residents ask why the government is targeting their peaceful village. Kiev troops claimed they were killing ‘terrorists’, although *here that term would include women, children and the elderly. 
*
“*Why? There was nobody here – only peaceful civilians, poor people who worked from dawn till dusk,” says a local woman. 
*


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

BELARUS CELEBRATES INDEPENDENCE DAY WHILE EASTERN UKRAINE CONTINUES TO FIGHT FOR ITS INDEPENDENCE










MINSK, 3 July (BelTA) – This year's Independence Day is special in Belarus as it coincided with the 70th anniversary of the country's liberation from the Nazi invaders, BelTA has learned.










The Independence Day is a major holiday of Belarusian statehood. It was declared in 1996 by Decree of the President of Belarus and has become a symbol of revival of the Belarusian State. By the will of citizens expressed in the national referendum, the Independence Day is celebrated on the day of liberation of Minsk from the Nazi invaders in July 1944.










The Independence Day celebrations is a tribute to the heroism and endurance of the Belarusians, selfless struggle against the fascist invaders, an unparalleled labor feat of those who raised the country from the ruins, built houses, schools, factories, who manufactured first products at enterprises.










A big festive program wil be offered to citizens of the country and numerous foreign guests on 3 July. Today the Belarusian capital alone will host more than 30 cultural events. The Independence Day celebrations promise to be interesting and memorable in all regions of the country.










The highlights of the celebrations in Minsk will be a military parade, the sports show Olympic Carnival and a gala concert.












The President
of the Republic of Belarus

The official Internet portal of the President of the Republic of Belarus


Alexander Lukashenko sends Independence Day greetings

3 July 2014 

Dear compatriots,

I congratulate you on the main national holiday – the Independence Day of the Republic of Belarus (Republic Day).

This memorable date in the historical calendar of our country symbolizes liberation of the Belarusian nation from Nazi invaders. Seventy years ago we defended the peaceful future of the Homeland, and we must preserve this priceless legacy for our descendants.

Today we remember fallen heroes: soldiers of the Red Army, partisans and underground fighters. Sparing no effort and sometimes lives they secured the Victory in that heinous war.

Peoples of the Soviet Union fought together, defeated the common enemy and liberated mankind from fascist slavery.

There were many obstacles on the way to independence. Thanks to the selfless work and help of brotherly Soviet peoples we restored the country from ruins, gained the right to determine our future and took a worthy place in the global community.

Over these years we have become stronger, wiser and are ready to respond to any modern challenges.

On this great day I wish you strong health, happiness and productive work for the benefit of the Fatherland. May peace and wellbeing reign in your homes!

Happy Independence Day, dear friends!

Alexander Lukashenko 

This page is available at: http://president.gov.by/en/news_en/view/alexander-lukashenko-sends-independence-day-greetings-9197


© 2014, The Press Service of the President of the Republic of Belarus


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

This recently leaked RAND think tank advisory report would seem to indicate that the U.S. government and Kiev junta are on the same page regarding Nazi tactics to use against eastern Ukrainian federalists including internment camps, immediate executions, etc.








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Leaked: US think-tank plan on E.Ukraine suggests internment camps, executions, nationalizing citizens’ property

A leaked memorandum from the RAND corporation think tank suggests that Kiev should engage in an all-out war in the eastern regions, including shutting down all communications, putting citizens in internment camps and killing all who resist.

*The RAND Corporation is non-profit global think tank which offers research and analysis to the US armed forces*. 

In the shocking letter, which has been leaked by the media, the advice offers a step by step brutal guide in how to deal with the population in eastern Ukraine. 

‘Military op’s advantages overweigh disadvantage’ 

In the first line the memorandum notes that the peace plan outlined by new president Poroshenko is likely to fail. However, it soothes, the political and material downsides of the operation will be “outweighed” by the gains. 

The chilling letter then lists the advantages that a full scale military onslaught against the two breakaway eastern Ukrainian regions would have. 

The pro-Russian political movement, claims the advice, would become decimated and the pro-Russian voters would get disorganized. 

*Instead of upholding the region’s coal supplies as a source of future employment, it says the decimation of the coal industry in the fighting would mean they would be quickly shut down*, thereby relieving the Ukraine of burdensome subsidy costs. 

Shutting down the Donbass industries would also mean a reduction in Russian gas consumption and the destruction of the local oligarch Rinat Akhmetov’s clan and his political and economic clout. 

*Stage 1: Suspend Constitution, impose martial law* 

The shocking memorandum then lists a three stage military campaign to guarantee victory. Stage One, called the total isolation of the rebel regions, presuming that all civilians who have stayed behind are “complicit in the unrest or supportive of it.” 

It proposes martial law should be imposed in the area with a strict curfew between 20:00 and 06:00, while all local authorities would have their competencies terminated and Constitution be suspended in the area. 

The regions should then be encircled with troops with special attention being given to areas which border on Russia. 

*As regards the media it recommends that all broadcasting services, telephone and mobile communications and internet services in the region should be shut down* and that the international media should be “subject to a special procedure.” 

*Stage 2: Internment camps for male adults, any one resisting to be killed on the spot *

Then begins Stage Two of the operation, called mop-up, which involves a gradual tightening of the circle of troops round the region, followed by airstrikes and then artillery and mortar assaults against the “enemy’s” strategic facilities. 

Without any apparent regard for human life the RAND authors then advise that *the use of non-conventional arms should not be ruled out “to ensure smaller casualties among our own personnel*”. 

The authors, who seemingly have little or no knowledge of the situation in eastern Ukraine, then say that settlements should be liberated one by one with armor going in first, followed by infantry who should shoot to kill anyone bearing arms. 

*In what appears to be advising ethnic cleansing, all male adults should be removed to internment camps, while anyone who attempts to resist should be executed*; children under 13 and people over the age of 60 should be moved to specially equipped facilities in other areas. 

In a bizarre piece of advice that appears at best unrealistic and at worst deranged *RAND then says that anyone with bruises, scuff marks, traces of gun powder or gun oil on their clothes should be tried in court for separatism and terrorism. Any lucky residents who don’t fall into these categories would be allowed to return home after a period of two months “of internment” and would then be slapped under surveillance by the security services*. 

*Stage 3: Property of convicted and displaced to be nationalized 

*Stage Three, which is risibly called ‘Back to Normal’, says that all refugees “from the warzone” should then be allowed to return home. This is presuming that in the first place they would have a home to return to and in the second place they would want to return home to a region now so divided along Ukrainian and Russian ethnicities. 

However, *men aged 18-60 shalled be “checked” in internment camps, while the protperty of convicted and displaced resident of Donetsk and Lugansk regions shall be nationalized*. 

The area of the punitive operation shall be made “off limits” to the foreign media, the memorandum concludes.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

A piece of paper with text, RAND logo and word 'confidential' in the corner. Seems legit :lel


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

lolol that plan reads like it was written by a 16 year old

analysts at the rand corporation making 6 figure incomes with full benefits don't write like that. especially specific recommendations like let them out of the internment camps after two months. that's a number pulled out of thin air.

and execution of any who resist being put in internment camps, that's just cartoonish. nobody at a place like the rand corporation is going to write something like that.

that's some crude bullshit right there rand corporation roflmao


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

Fascists flee Slovyansk:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/201...on=Footer&module=MoreInSection&pgtype=article



> Andrei Purgin of the separatist Donetsk People's Republic told The Associated Press that rebels were evacuating, but claimed the army's campaign had left the city "in ruins."
> 
> Purgin claimed 150 fighters injured in Slovyansk were in Donetsk for treatment.
> 
> ...





> Others in the rebels' ranks pleaded publicly with Russia to assist the rebels in their cause. In a video posted online late on Friday, Igor Girkin, the self-described "commander in chief of the Donetsk People's Republic," said his men had "lost the will to fight."
> 
> "They want to live in Russia," said Girkin, also known by his nom de guerre, Igor Strelkov. "But when they tried to assert this right, Russia doesn't want to help." He said he believed the troops had only "two or three weeks" before they were defeated if Russia did not step in.


Fascist Vladimir Putin has abandoned his brothers in the People's Republic of Donetsk. 

Fascists keep fleeing, skipping out of Kramatorsk just after arriving there from Slovyansk:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/07/05/uk-ukraine-crisis-slaviansk-idUKKBN0FA06P20140705



> A Reuters reporter saw a convoy of around 20 military transport vehicles and buses filled with armed rebels driving out of Kramatorsk where they had gone after apparently earlier fleeing the separatist stronghold of Slaviansk nearby.


Fascist rebels betray the helpless people of eastern Ukraine:

http://online.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-proposes-time-and-place-for-talks-1404482095



> Mr. Poroshenko said he hadn't received a response, but rebels separately indicated they could be prepared to meet in the Belarusian capital of Minsk.


Negotiating with this fascist junta occupying Kiev, what has happened to the brave freedom fighters. It appears that Batko may be the only anti-fascist left. What sinister things must have been done by the United States to get Vladimir Putin and the freedom fighters themselves to betray the cause... getting near the time when the fascists who can't manage to get into Russia try to blend back in and hope everyone forgets how they tried to tear the country apart for the benefit of foreign imperialism and failed miserably.


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## Muerte al fascismo (Feb 3, 2008)

The rebels don't even have much support anymore, even in their own regions. Get away from RT reports and rebel intimidation and you would know this just from speaking to the majority of citizens. Its revealing what the citizens say privately about this so called 'People's republic'

This routing and lack of local civilian aid only proves that point. They may have exploited the confusion with the Kiev revolution, but they're nothing more then paid agent provocateurs of the Russian military and intelligence machine. Anyone that is looking at the facts objectively can see this.

Ukraine is getting its country back. Now it needs to address the crime of Russian subsequent land grabs. Russia still hasn't learned that Ukraine is no longer in the Soviet Union and should be allowed to do whatever the fuck they want, without fear of invasion, bullying and Russia sowing the seeds of chaos.

USA and its proxies in Nato do share some blame, but Russia is boxing itself into a corner by its lack of respect of its neighbors sovereignty.


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

UPL will consist of 14 teams

Shakhtar must relocate

Only Kiev & Lviv suitabale to host CL/EL games

Both Sevastopol & Tavriya change names & want to play in Russia but won't be able to play this upcoming season at all


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

So I guess Shakhtar will relocate if they know what's best for them.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)




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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> So I guess Shakhtar will relocate if they know what's best for them.


Tytan Armyansk also cease to exist 

Shakhtar could play in Bucharest


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Al Borland said:


> Tytan Armyansk also cease to exist
> 
> Shakhtar could play in Bucharest


Why Bucarest? Why can't they relocate to a Ukrainian city?


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

how far the mighty anti-fascists have fallen, oh no poroshenko is going to have a hard time as president now that he's winning his war. just last week it was poroshenko and the fascist junta will be humiliated and east ukraine will be free... how the times have changed since the fascist russian imperialists got bitchslapped out of slovyansk.


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Why Bucarest? Why can't they relocate to a Ukrainian city?


http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/ukraine-football-federation-cuts-crimea-teams-from-premier-league/502969.html


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

KIEV JUNTA CONTINUES ITS ATTACKS ON CIVILIAN POPULATION CENTERS
_The Western Ukrainian National Guard continues its Nazi style warfare on the non-combatant civilian population of Novorossiya with the goal of causing massive casualties among the civilian population. They hope this will force the self-defense forces to surrender. So far, Kiev has succeeded in killing way more non-combatant civilians, including women and children, than self-defense fighters. This is typical of Nazi tactics used during The Great Patriotic War against the civilian population of the Soviet Union_. - Mike










Published time: July 06, 2014 14:13 

Kiev's artillery attacked the city of Lugansk in eastern Ukraine on Sunday, witnesses and militia of the self-proclaimed People's Republic of Lugansk (LNR) said. *Ukrainian forces also attacked the city’s suburbs from the air*. 

"Ukrainian aviation launched missile strikes at Aleksandrovka, the Lugansk suburb. Ukrainian airplanes are in the skies above Lugansk. A siren is on," the press service of the Donetsk People's Republic wrote on Twitter. 

After 8 p.m. Moscow time, the confrontation between the self-defense and Ukrainian forces intensified in the suburbs of Lugansk, RIA Novosti reported. 

The agency said that a heavy aircraft could be heard flying above Lugansk, after which a siren went off. 

In general, in the evening hours the situation within the city was calm. Earlier in the day Lugansk mayor addressed its citizens and asked them not to leave their homes. 

One civilian was reportedly killed in the morning attacks, four more people injured. 

Later in the day, following the air strikes, an air raid alert was heard in Lugansk, Itar-Tass news agency reported. 

*The attack happened the same day Kiev said it would not bombard armed groups in Lugansk and Donetsk from the air*. "The tactics of the Ukrainian Army, the National Guard and the Border Service are such that massive bombardment of residential areas is excluded," Andrey Lysenko, spokesman of the Ukrainian National Security and Defense Council said on Sunday. 

Air strikes and heavy artillery will target only convoys outside cities, he added. 

"Several buildings are burning in the city, some people have been injured, there are a lot of ambulances in the streets,” militia representatives told Itar-Tass on Sunday, adding that locals rushed to bomb shelters. Witnesses say the battery factory was hit, which is close to a bus terminal. 

Grad rocket launchers may have been used in the attack, the sources from the Lugansk People’s Republic said. 

Ukrainian forces confirmed the shelling of the areas near the Lugansk railway and bus stations on Sunday afternoon, but blamed it on the opposing self-defense forces. 

"I presume the fire was really intense as it reached the city center from the outskirts. I heard at least five or six explosions," Anton Bukhalo, a journalist from Lugansk, told RT. He added that people were trying to leave the city. 

A RIA-Novosti journalist also reported the sound of artillery and gunfire in Lugansk on Sunday. 

Ukrainian forces hit a building in the city center and "huge black smoke" was seen in the area, an eyewitness from Lugansk told RT via Skype. He added that a warehouse was burning. 

"I can often hear explosions or shooting. I can hear it every five to ten minutes," said the man, who is currently in the eastern part of Lugansk. 

Donetsk militia confirm leaving stronghold cities of Slavyansk and Kramatorsk 

Several explosions were reportedly heard in the Lugansk airport area, and the movement of military equipment was observed in the town of Schastie, near Lugansk. 

The previous night mortar shelling took place near the Lugansk airport, but there are no further reports of casualties so far. 

On Saturday, the health minister of the Lugansk People’s Republic said at least 80 people had been treated in Lugansk hospitals after a day of bombing and gunfire from Ukrainian forces. *He said 56 of the injured were civilians*. 

On Sunday in Lugansk city center, people were collecting signatures for an appeal to the UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon. Locals want to ask the UN to stop Kiev's aggression towards civilians, they said. 

The Ukrainian army will besiege the cities of Lugansk and Donetsk in the country's east, in an attempt to make the self-defense forces lay down arms, Ukraine's National Security and Defense Council official told Ukrainian Inter TV channel on Sunday. 

"*The main strategic plan of the Ukrainian army is to besiege Lugansk and Donetsk*," Mikhail Koval, deputy secretary of the Council said. Such measures will force the local "separatists" to lay down arms, he added.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

As the president was officially elected, you can stop calling the government a junta, Batko. Oh, wait, you can't. It's not you. It's RT talking for you. As the song says 'speak for yourself or they'll speak for you'. Your mind is too weak to resist the psychological oppression, you got caught by the system and now you are their slave.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> As the president was officially elected, you can stop calling the government a junta, Batko. Oh, wait, you can't. It's not you. It's RT talking for you. As the song says 'speak for yourself or they'll speak for you'. Your mind is too weak to resist the psychological oppression, you got caught by the system and now you are their slave.


The illegal government formed by insurgents who overthrew the ELECTED government by force holds an election for president. This election is held after they place their own people in all the key government positions and threaten and coerce opposition parties into obedience or force their members to resign and/or join the junta.

The only candidates running for office are junta shills. One opposition candidate is beaten up and eventually flees the country due to threats by junta thugs. In an effort to at least pretend to have an air of legitimacy the junta refuses to allow the Communist Party candidate from withdrawing his candidacy. He withdraws anyway and was physically driven from the podium in the Verkhovna Rada for expressing his opposition to the genocide in the east.

Finally, according to their own statistics only 55% of the eligible voters in Ukraine turned out for the presidential election. According to the junta's data 54% of these voted for Poroshenko. That would give Poroshenko in the neighborhood of 27% of the ballots of the total number of eligible voters in Ukraine. This is hardly a mandate for Poroshenko from the Ukrainian people.

Interestingly, the U.S. media was declaring Poroshenko the winner hours before the polls closed and they even started "counting" the votes. 

I don't need RT or anyone else to tell me how phoney this election was. 

I also don't need anyone to tell me what hardships the Ukrainian people are in for regardless of the outcome of the genocide in the east. A year from now the economy is going to be in even worse shape and the people virtually starving after being subjected to the dictates of the IMF and the country's resources pillaged by western companies. 

Of course, you will blame Russia. Oh, but wait. That wouldn't be Tomas speaking - that would be the NY Times, BBC, CNN and the other mouthpieces of western aggression talking for him! The poor guy got caught up by the propaganda of the West and is now their slave! What shame!

- Mike


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulrod...lection-results-only-15-voted-for-annexation/

Only 22.5% of Crimeans voting to join Russia is hardly an expression of the will of the people of Crimea then, isn't it?


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

deepelemblues said:


> http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulrod...lection-results-only-15-voted-for-annexation/
> 
> Only 22.5% of Crimeans voting to join Russia is hardly an expression of the will of the people of Crimea then, isn't it?


It would be wrong, but it suits Batko's political agenda, so it's OK.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

First of all, there would not have been an annexation of Crimea by Russia had there not been a U.S. backed insurgency that overthrew the elected government of Ukraine and brought to power a fascist junta.

Whatever happened after the Kiev junta came to power was a reaction to the insurgency and perceived western threat to Russia's security - that includes the Crimean annexation and the resistance to the illegal government by the east and south.

Regarding the allegations about the Crimean referendum: 

1. Ukrainian nationalist news media claim that the Russian Council on Civil Society and Human Rights posted data that contradicted previous reports on the referendum in Crimea.

2. However, no one can find this data, because "it was hastily removed from the internet report" by the RCCSHR. We just have the word of anti-Russian sources in Kiev.

3. Svetlana Gannushkina agrees with all this. The fact that, despite being Russian, Svetlana Gannushkina is almost as anti-Russian as the Kiev junta doesn't seem to bother anyone.

4. The RAND report that I posted on this thread was dismissed as something anyone could have written and marked "RAND." However, this anti-Russian report is accepted as gospel by the Russophobic element on this list. 

5. And to put the icing on the cake, who is depending on anti-Russian sources in Kiev for their information in their article - FORBES magazine. The fact that FORBES is one of the most anti-Russian, pro-American corporate, pro-Washington publications doesn't strike anyone as being suspicious???

6. Even if this nonsense were true, it does not justify the phony Ukrainian presidential elections that put Washington's puppet on the throne of the Kiev junta.

What can I say? The bottom line is that the people in Crimea are way better off now and will continue to prosper. Unfortunately, the Ukrainian people have yet to experience anywhere near the suffering that they will be forced to endure in the near future at the hands of the IMF, EU, and U.S. corporations. 

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

8 July 2014, 05:13

US State Department says Kiev has right to use airstrikes against civilians










_*US State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki said to reporters at a press briefing that the Ukrainian government has every right to conduct attacks on civilians, as this upholds the country's unity*._


*According to US State Department spokesman Jen Psaki, the Ukrainian government defends the country, inflicting air strikes on civilians in the east of the country*. She stated this today at a regular meeting with reporters. Psaki justified Kiev's actions in relation to the militia.

Asked by the RT reporter Gayane Chichakyan of civilians who are suffering from the bombing, which is conducted exclusively by the Ukrainian army, and not by the anti-Kiev militia, *Jen Psaki said that Kiev had the right to do it, because it protects the integrity of the country*. "The Ukrainian authorities are protecting the country. I think they have to have every right to do it, it is the same way to act in the international community," she said.

In addition, *Psaki commented on a recent statement of US State Department's spokesperson Marie Harf that Ukrainians do not leave the country because of the crisis, but just go to visit their grandparents in Russia*. She explained that the US cannot believe the sources that report on increase of migrants' flow.

After representative RT referred to a number of American media that write about the numerous Ukrainian refugees, State Department spokesman responded that *the source of these messages is the Federal Migration Service of Russia, which is not an international organization, so the data provided by it should be verified*.

*The UN estimates that about 100 thousand people have crossed the Russian border*, but Russian Federal Migration Service states that the figure may be four times higher.

US describes Kiev's punitive operations in eastern Ukraine as 'adequate'

The US Department of State believes that the Ukrainian military operations in the east of the country are *adequate, spokesperson Jen Psaki said at a briefing in Washington. According to US opinion, operations of the Ukrainian security forces have a moderate and restrained character.
*
"In terms of events of what’s happening on the ground, *our view is that the Ukrainian security forces' operations have been moderate and measured;* they’ve been taking steps to maintain calm within their own country," Psaki supposes.

The press office of the Lugansk People's Republic (LPR) reported on Wednesday artillery fire in the village in Lugansk region and the deaths of ten civilians including a child. "According to the information of militia, about ten civilians, including a girl aged five to six, died in the Lugansk village in artillery fire," LPR press service head Vladimir Inogorodskikh said on Wednesday, Interfax reports.

A civilian bus came under fire in Slavyansk leaving two people dead, Donbass People's Governor Pavel Gubarev said citing self-defense leader of the Donetsk People's Republic Igor Strelkov.

*JEN PSAKI SAYS KIEVS HAS THE RIGHT TO USE AIRSTRIKES ON CIVILIANS TO DEFEND THE COUNTRY*





*JEN PSAKI SAYS KIEV MILITARY OP THAT HAS KILLED HUNDREDS OF CIVILIANS IS "MODERATE AND MEASURED"*


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

http://www.president-sovet.ru/struc...olitike/materialy/problemy_zhiteley_kryma.php

Isn't this the report with the Crimean voting numbers?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> http://www.president-sovet.ru/struc...olitike/materialy/problemy_zhiteley_kryma.php
> 
> Isn't this the report with the Crimean voting numbers?


I suppose so. You would have to ask the Kiev junta's media and FORBE's magazine. I superficially skimmed the report and could not find any figures reporting on how many people turned out for the referendum or how they voted. I'll read it more thoroughly after I've had my coffee. *But, FORBES and the junta are saying that those numbers were removed from the report*. 

I'm not refering to you, but it amazes me how many list members constantly demand "proof" for anything that I comment on and deride anything in the media that supports Russian claims. Yet, when it comes to something that is written against Russia they are ready to take it as gospel without a shred of evidence! Despite this they insist that they are not Russophobes.

They can come up with any falsified documentation that they want, but the truth is that the people of Crimea seem very happy with the annexation that they voted for. I don't hear of any riots, demonstrations, or complaints. Why should there be? Pensions have risen two times since the annexation as have wages. The people are protected from the fascist Western Ukrainians running the junta in Kiev and life, both economic and social, is progressing normally. 

Can the same be said for life in the rest of Ukraine under western control or fighting against western control??? 

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)




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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

VLADIMIR, METROPOLITAN OF KIEV, BURIED IN PECHARSK LAVRA MONASTERY









_*FUNERAL PROCESSION OF VLADIMIR, METROPOLITAN OF KIEV AND ALL UKRAINE, WHO WAS BURIED ON JULY 7TH IN ONE OF THE HOLIEST SHRINES OF THE EASTERN ORTHODOX CHURCH*_ 

Ukrainian Orthodox Church – Moscow Patriarchate – 5/7/14

*+ MEMORY ETERNAL +* *+ ВЕЧНАЯ ПАМЯТЬ +* 

On July 5, His Beatitude Metropolitan Vladimir of Kiev and All Ukraine, the Primate of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, passed away in the Lord, at the age of 78.

On the same day the body of His Beatitude Metropolitan Vladimir was moved to the Assumption Cathedral of Kiev Pechersk Lavra, where the clergy and the faithful had the opportunity to bid farewell to their Primate.


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

I see some alternative media has constituted the military campaign in eastern Ukraine as "ethnic cleansing". A bit extreme, maybe?


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

It's the rebels, who started rebelling, so I wouldn't call it an ethnic cleansing.


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## Spanish Lariato (Jul 26, 2011)

The Manowarrior said:


> It's the rebels, who started rebelling, so I wouldn't call it an ethnic cleansing.


That's a shallow analysis. The people started rebelling because Fascists took control of the Ukranian government through a coup d'etat. These people happen to be anti-Russian so it's manifest that the ethnic Russians living in Ukraine had to rise against the opressors who don't hesitate in execute a genocide against his "enemies" (socialdemocrats, communists, jews, women, Russians, etc).


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## FerreroRichy (Apr 28, 2014)

The worrying thing about Ukraine is that an end-game is nigh on impossible to call at the moment.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> I see some alternative media has constituted the military campaign in eastern Ukraine as "ethnic cleansing". A bit extreme, maybe?


The Kiev junta's policy of shelling and bombing the non-combatant civilian population has not only resulted in much higher casualties among civilians than freedom fighters, it has displaced large segments of the population forcing them to leave their homes and seek refuge elsewhere. 

"Ethnic cleansing" does not have to be a "genocide." It can be actions taken to force an ethnic group to flee its homeland and resettle somewhere else. Based on the tactics being used by the Kiev junta, this would appear to be what is occuring in the east. 

Call it what you like, the Western Ukrainian troops of the National Guard have waged a vicious campaign against non-combatant civilians that is reminiscent of the tactics used by the Nazi German Werhmacht against the Soviet civlian population during WW II. 

- Mike

eth·nic cleans·ing

noun: ethnic cleansing
the mass expulsion or killing of members of an unwanted ethnic or religious group in a society.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

FerreroRichy said:


> The worrying thing about Ukraine is that an end-game is nigh on impossible to call at the moment.


Actually, the pro-Russian fascist rebels are about to give up. They already lost Slavyansk that they had occupied.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*PAYBACK TIME! KIEV JUNTA'S NAZI FUCKERS WERE BLASTED TO HELL THIS AFTERNOON! THREE DOZEN NATIONAL GUARDSMEN WERE KILLED AND THEIR HEAVY ARMOR DESTROYED BY GRAD ROCKET FIRE AS THE FREEDOM FIGHTERS WENT ON THE OFFENSIVE IN LUGANSK. TWO FASCIST JET FIGHTERS WERE ALSO SHOT DOWN IN DZERZHINSK AND LUGANSK! :clap 

APPARENTLY, THE UKRAINIAN FREEDOM FIGHTERS ARE NOT GETTING READY TO GIVE UP! 

AT LEAST THE SELF-DEFENSE FORCES KILL OTHER SOLDIERS, NOT CIVILIANS LIKE THE KIEV JUNTA'S ANIMALS!*

*DOWN WITH THE JUNTA! DEATH TO THE WESTERN UKRAINIAN FASCISTS!

ДОЛОЙ ХУНТУ! СМЕРТЬ ЗАПАДНЫМ УКРАЙНСКИМ ФАШИСТАМ*!

*BY THE WAY, NOW PIGGY POROSHENKO IS SUDDENLY CALLING FOR A CEASE FIRE AND, LIKE A GOOD NAZI, SIMULTANEOUSLY THREATENING TO KILL A HUNDRED EASTERN UKRAINIANS FOR EVERY FASCIST NATIONAL GUARDSMAN KILLED*. :lmao









_Kiev junta's tanks lay in twisted ruins after its Nazi troops were blasted with GRAD rocket launchers in Lugansk_.

SELF-DEFENSE FORCES GO ON THE OFFENSIVE - BLAST FASCIST POSITIONS WITH GRAD ROCKETS KILLING THREE DOZEN NATIONAL GUARD TROOPS!

Dozens of Ukraine’s government troops have been reportedly killed after local militia shelled pro-Kiev military forces with Grad rocket launchers. President Poroshenko has vowed “killing hundreds” for each deceased soldier.

Self-defense troops attacked a Ukrainian military unit at around 5:00am near Zelenopolye village in the Lugansk region, not far from the Russian border, Kiev’s officials reported. 

A military official described the consequences of what he called “a bloody terrorist act” as “destruction” saying that about 30 were feared killed. 

"About 30 servicemen are thought to have been killed in a shelling by militants using Grad multiple rocket launchers at units of the Ukrainian anti-terrorist operation (ATO) forces near the village of Zelenopolye,” Zoryan Shkyryak, an adviser to Interior Minister Arseny Avakov, said at a briefing. “There might be more victims.” 

Self-defense forces have confirmed that they targeted the Ukrainian army convoy with Grad rocket launchers. 

“According to our information, the Ukrainian military convoy from Lvov came under fire. The exact number of killed is unknown; there might be two or three dozen killed. The convoy was destroyed,” a member of the opposition told RIA Novosti. 

Speaking in front of journalists, the Interior Ministry adviser vowed revenge for the attack, saying that those behind it “will be punished, either eliminated or captured, and they will answer according to the laws of Ukraine." 

*Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko later echoed the retaliation threats, stating that for each of the killed men “militants will pay with dozens and hundreds of theirs [people].” (THE NAZI GERMANS SAID THE SAME THING DURING THEIR OCCUPATION OF THE SOVIET UNION DURING WW II. POROSHENKO AND HIS FASCISTS STICK TO THE NAZI SCRIPT PRETTY CLOSELY! - Mike*)

Meanwhile, shelling continues all over the region with Kiev’s troops targeting residential areas. 

In the recent attack on Friday, the Ukrainian air force fired rockets at the city of Dzerzhinsk in the Donetsk region and destroyed a cemetery, transformer vault and a gas pipeline. 

*At the same time, opposition in Dzerzhinsk claims it has downed a Ukrainian army jet, according to Itar-Tass. 

Another Kiev aircraft was knocked out in the neighboring Lugansk region, the news agency reported. 
*
In the meantime, more civilians are becoming innocent victims of Ukrainian army shelling. In one of the latest tragedies in Lugansk, a woman was killed as a shell landed on her apartment’s balcony.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

MPs in Western Ukrainian Lvov demand Poroshenko reinstate Nazi collaborators as national heroes


Published time: July 10, 2014 19:02 

*The city council of Lvov in western Ukraine has urged the Nazi collaborators and nationalist icons, Stepan Bandera and Roman Shukhevich, be reinstated as heroes of Ukraine*.

“We demand the president of Ukraine, Petro Poroshenko, reissue a decree awarding Stepan Bandera and Roman Shukhevich the title of heroes of Ukraine,” says an address by Lvov’s city council, as cited by Ukraine's UNIAN news agency. 

According to the MPs behind the claim, the move would confirm Poroshenko as “an independent president of the Ukrainian state, for which the head of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN), Stepan Bandera, and commander of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA), Roman Shukhevich, fought and gave their lives.” 









_Neo-Nazis march in Lvov 'in honor' of Ukrainian Waffen SS division_ 

*Bandera and Shukhevich were awarded the title of heroes of Ukraine in 2007 and 2010 respectively, under President Viktor Yushchenko, who came to power in 2005 after the Orange Revolution*. 

*But the Nazi collaborators were deprived of the honors as soon as Viktor Yanukovych, who was mainly supported in the eastern regions of the country, came to power*. 

In April 2010, Donetsk District Administrative Court declared Yushchenko’s decrees to award Bandera and Shukhevich the titles of heroes of Ukraine illegal. 

There were several appeals to higher judiciaries against the Donetsk court ruling, but they were all turned down. 

*Bandera’s Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) nationalist movement collaborated with Nazi Germany during World War II and was involved in the ethnic cleansing of Poles, Jews, and Russians*. 

The Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA), which Shukhevich headed, was OUN’s military wing. 

In the summer of 1941, Bandera called on “the people of Ukraine to help the German army to defeat Moscow and Bolshevism.” 

However, Bandera and Hitler failed to reach an agreement as Nazi Germany refused to support the idea of an independent Ukrainian state.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Ukrainian nazis - bad. Russian nazis - good. Fuck yeah, Russian logic.

You're either with us... or you're a nazi.


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## Spanish Lariato (Jul 26, 2011)

The Manowarrior said:


> Ukrainian nazis - bad. Russian nazis - good. Fuck yeah, Russian logic.
> 
> You're either with us... or you're a nazi.


Can you explain why the people who rised against Pravy Sektor, Svoboda and so on are nazis?


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Spanish Lariato said:


> Can you explain why the people who rised against Pravy Sektor, Svoboda and so on are nazis?


They are killing exclusively Ukrainians and believe in superiority of Russians. Vice versa of what Ukrainians are doing. I, unlike some supporters of the Russian side, can at least acknowledge it.


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## Spanish Lariato (Jul 26, 2011)

The Manowarrior said:


> They are killing exclusively Ukrainians and believe in superiority of Russians. Vice versa of what Ukrainians are doing. I, unlike some supporters of the Russian side, can at least acknowledge it.


They are killing those who holds the power and the military sent to annihilate them. Hardly the same as fascism. Can you refer me to the source that says the fighters are saying that are better than the Ukranian people?


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Spanish Lariato said:


> They are killing those who holds the power and the military sent to annihilate them. Hardly the same as fascism. Can you refer me to the source that says the fighters are saying that are better than the Ukranian people?


I thought sources and proofs were unnecessary here. Batko never provided any to his arguments and just ignored every single time when I asked him for a source of his claims. So, sorry, but I can't do that. I'm just trying to make sure that we all play by the same rules.


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## Spanish Lariato (Jul 26, 2011)

The Manowarrior said:


> I thought sources and proofs were unnecessary here. Batko never provided any to his arguments and just ignored every single time when I asked him for a source of his claims. So, sorry, but I can't do that. I'm just trying to make sure that we all play by the same rules.


Ok then. You should have started saying that you have nothing to support your claims.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Spanish Lariato said:


> Ok then. You should have started saying that you have nothing to support your claims.


In fact, I do have something to support my claims, but, again, same rules work for everybody here.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Click on the link below and then click on the photo of the burning Ukrainian policeman and you will connect to the pdf format of the White Paper covering the human rights violations of the U.S. and E.U. backed Maidan insurgency that overthrew the elected government of Ukraine.

A second White Paper is being prepared as we speak which will cover the Kiev junta's punitive military action and ethnic cleansing in eastern Ukraine.

- Mike

http://www.voltairenet.org/article183646.html

The White Book on Violations of Human Rights and the Rule of Law in Ukraine


Voltaire Network | 5 May 2014 
français русский Español Deutsch 

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation has published a White Paper on violations of human rights and the rule of law in Ukraine that have occurred since November 2013.

The book is divided into six chapters: 
- Violations of Human rights; 
- Interference by the European Union and the United States; 
- Weapons and violent methods used by the protesters; 
- Restrictions on basic freedoms and crackdown on dissidents; 
- Discrimination based on ethnic background; 
- Religious persecution.

Each chapter consists of a detailed chronology of events.

This essential document is available in the English and Russian versions.








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## Spanish Lariato (Jul 26, 2011)

The Manowarrior said:


> In fact, I do have something to support my claims, but, again, same rules work for everybody here.


That childish attitude does not do any good to your arguments.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Ethnic and cultural cleansing in Ukraine

by Andrew Korybko 


_Andrew Korybko dwells on the reasons for the uprising: it is not simply a question of refusing to recognize the coup government in Kiev, but an attempt to ward off an official project entailing the ethnic cleansing of the Russian-speaking populations_.

On the centennial anniversary of “Russophilic” individuals (Rusyns) from modern-day Ukraine being sent to concentration camps, history appears set to once again repeat itself. The Ukrainian Defense Minister has publicly voiced his plan to corral the citizens of Donbass into special “filtration” camps prior to forcibly resettling them in different parts of Ukraine.

*A few days later, Ukrainian Prime Minister Yatsenyuk declared the pro-federalists in the East to be “subhuman*”.








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*This choice of words not only wasn’t condemned by Kiev’s American patrons, but was actually defended by State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki*, who strangely said that Yatsenyuk “has consistently been in support of a peaceful resolution” [1]. 

Raising concerns even higher that a full-fledged cleansing is being planned, Ukraine’s land agency said that it will be giving “free land” from the east to the military, Interior Ministry, and Special Services troops battling the federalists [2]. With Ukraine on the verge of large-scale ethnic and cultural cleansing, *it is little wonder at whose expense this Lebenstraum-like “free land” will be given*.

1914 was the first time that people of a supposed pro-Russian affiliation were rounded up and sent to concentration camps. The Austrians imprisoned Rusyns and Lemkos (a closely related sub-ethnic group) in Thalerhof because their self-identification was seen as treasonous. *In the same manner, the self-identification of the people of Donbass is also being seen as treasonous, at least according to Ukraine’s Defense Minister Mikhail Koval*. 









_Ukrainian Defense Minister Mikhail Koval_

He was appointed to his position after his predecessor’s dismissal following the reunification of Russia and Crimea [3]. Koval’s extreme statement of intent for the people of Donbass also validates Russia’s prior concerns in March, elaborated upon in the White Book on human rights violations in Ukraine [4], that Crimea was facing an imminent humanitarian crisis before the reunification. *If Crimea had not defended itself and reunified with Russia, now that the Ukrainian Defense Ministry’s post-crisis ‘resolution’ plans have been made public, it is very likely that its citizens would already be imprisoned in a special “filtration” camp of some sorts and forcibly moved out of their home region (if they survived the ordeal)*.

What Koval has proposed to do to the citizens of Donbass is completely illegal under international law and characterized as a crime against humanity. Forcible deporting and transferring a population, imprisoning them for no reason other than their address, and specifically targeting an ethnic and cultural group is explicitly forbidden under Article 7 of the Rome Statute. *Perhaps because Yatsenyuk and others in his administration believe the protesters in the east to be “subhuman”, they do not feel that “human rights” apply to them*. Accordingly, these “sub-humans” won’t have the right to their former property as well (due to the forcible resettlement), so it is likely that their homes and businesses will be the “free land” that Kiev has promised to its militant henchmen deployed in the east.


*This flagrant violation of fundamental human rights is being absolutely ignored by Western governments*, which are usually the first actors to prematurely blow the whistle on any suspected human rights violations and threaten military intervention. It is now seen that the human intervention/responsibility to protect (HI/R2P) rhetoric and slogans were nothing more than charades to pursue ulterior geopolitical purposes. 

In fact, contrary to their established HI/R2P “credentials”, *the West, particularly the US, is actually aiding and abetting the Kievan regime that plans to carry out the cleansing *[5]. Military advisors, millions in funds, and CIA and FBI support have flooded into Ukraine since the coup, and more than likely, they will all be directed eastwards towards violently suppressing the federalist protesters [6]. In this manner, the US is directly complicit in any and all war crimes that Kiev’s conventional or mercenary forces carry out, up to and including Koval’s ethnic and cultural cleansing plans. Thus, the six million people of Donbass are faced with the same type of humanitarian disaster that was thought to have been forever vanquished from Europe almost 70 years ago.

Andrew Korybko


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)




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## FalseKing (Nov 3, 2013)




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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

An interesting article about the West's viewpoint of Russia's media in Ukraine:



> If the increasingly bloody turmoil in Ukraine is primarily viewed in the West as a struggle between pro-European supporters of democracy and an increasingly authoritarian government under the influence of Moscow, the official Russian line on the events presents an alternate reality: Western governments are naïve dupes supporting violent extremists with far-right fascist tendencies.
> 
> The Russian foreign ministry has dubbed the protests the “Brown Revolution,” comparing it to the Nazis’ rise to power in the 1930s. Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has asked, “Why do we not hear statements of condemnation toward those who seize government buildings, attack and burn police officers, and voice racist and anti-Semitic slogans?”
> 
> ...


http://tinyurl.com/pnhoebo


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Demonstrations against Washington's interference in Ukraine have been going on in various countries since the U.S. backed Kiev junta took power four months ago. So, yesterday's protest in front of the U.S. Embassy in Moscow was nothing new. However, I got a kick out of the placards which cut to chase. 

To those who will jump up and down shouting, "propaganda" I would say these placards express the opinion of hundreds of millions of people worldwide! - Mike

"*UKRAINE AND RUSSIA WILL NOT BE DIVIDED*"







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"*OBAMA - THE FUEHRER OF THE UKRAINIAN NAZIS*"







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"*THE AMERICAN KIEV PUPPET THEATER*"







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"*ALTHOUGH YOU USE A 'POUND' OF SOAP, YOU WILL NEVER WASH THE BLOOD OFF YOUR HANDS*"







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From left to right:
"*THE AMERICAN FUEHRER IS PROUD OF YOU*" (Obama in the form of a spider crawling across Ukraine to swallow up Novorossiya.)
"*AMERICAN FREEDOM IS FOR PERVERTS*" 
"*TRUST AMERICA, LOSE YOUR COUNTRY*"







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"*GENERAL RUSSIAN SOCIETAL ORGANIZATION 'CHILDREN OF WAR'*"







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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

:maury 'Ukraine will not be divided'. *are trying to divide Ukraine*

Normally it would be hypocrisy, but since it's Russia, it's OK. Apparently.


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

UEFA has placed restrictions on Israeli teams playing in European competitions, while sides from Ukraine and Russia will be kept apart.

The UEFA Emergency Panel met on Wednesday and ruled that no matches are to take place in Israel due to current political tensions in the Middle East.

Maccabi Tel Aviv must now find an alternative venue for their Champions League second round qualifying tie with Santa Coloma, while Hapoel Tel Aviv and Hapoel Be'er Sheva are also impacted in the Europa League.

"Due to the current security situation in Israel, no UEFA competition matches may be played in the country until further notice," read a statement from UEFA. 

"Consequently, the Israeli clubs involved in forthcoming fixtures have been requested to propose alternative venues outside of Israel's territory for their home legs in the 2014-15 UEFA Champions League and UEFA Europa League."

UEFA also confirmed that, due to the ongoing dispute between Russia and Ukraine, teams from the two nations will not be drawn with another in UEFA competitions.

"In light of the current political situation, the Russian Football Union [RFS] and the Football Federation of Ukraine [FFU] have expressed concerns about safety and security in the case of Russian and Ukrainian teams being drawn against each other in UEFA competition.

"After evaluating the request and taking into account the safety and security situation in the region, the UEFA Emergency Panel has decided that Ukrainian and Russian teams cannot be drawn against each other until further notice.

"Consequently, Zenit and Dnipro will be prevented from being pitted together when the UEFA Champions League third qualifying round draw is made on July 18."


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Always sad when politics get in the way of sports.


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## Panzer (May 31, 2007)

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...-reporter-quits-ukraine-plane-propaganda.html

It happened again. Another RT reporter quits.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Panzer said:


> http://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...-reporter-quits-ukraine-plane-propaganda.html
> 
> It happened again. Another RT reporter quits.


WOW. The pretty one quits :clap


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/2...ndemns-poland-for-hosting-secret-cia-prisons/

http://world.einnews.com/article__detail/215327814?lcode=uwDIWxytAx_eayvCb808UQ==

It looks like that bastion of democracy and economic prosperity, Poland, has been condemned for allowing secret CIA torture prisons on its territory.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_As in all fascist states the Communist Party is banned first followed by everyone else. In Ukraine the Party of Regions appears to be next according to the rumblings in the Verkhovna Rada (Parliament) of Ukraine.

This is what the West supports! - Mike
_
Turchynov dissolves Ukrainian Communist Party faction in parliament








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July 24, 2014, 10:15 a.m. | Ukraine — by Interfax-Ukraine
*
Ukrainian Parliament Speaker Oleksandr Turchynov has announced the dissolution of the Ukrainian Communist Party faction in the Verkhovna Rada.
*

*COMMUNIST PARTY LEADER SEMENENKO ATTACKED, BEATEN BY FASCIST RADA PRIOR TO BAN OF HIS PARTY*




Today, on the 23rd of July, which is going to be the last day of the Ukrainian Communist Party in the parliament, fighting broke out. Lawmakers have attacked Communist Party leader Petro Symonenko and other members of the Communist Party. Symonenko said that the people living in the eastern Donetsk and Luhansk regions had come in large numbers to polling stations in the May 11 referendum to vote against “the Kiev authorities and the ruling regime”. In the end the Communist Party was forced to leave the Parliament.


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## Spanish Lariato (Jul 26, 2011)

"First they came for the Communists, and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak for me."

It's essential to remember this in the times of resurgence of European fascism that we are living.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)




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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_*Even after being beaten up by the neo-Nazi PMs who make up a large portion of the Ukrainian Verkhovna Rada (Supreme Council, i.e. Parliament) and having his Party banned, Petro Symonenko refuses to back down and will challenge the ban in court.

While I applaud Symonenko's bravery and perseverance, quite frankly, the right wing, ultra-nationalist judges who now control the Ukrainian court system are not going to give him the time of day. I don't believe pressure from human rights groups will have much effect.

Pressure from the Kiev junta's puppet masters in Washington would get some results. However, we haven't seen any criticism from Capitol Hill or the White House on anything the junta has perpetrated since overthrowing the elected government back in February. Washington doesn't even admit the fascist nature of the thugs presently running the Ukrainian government, so don't expect anything constructive from that end*.

*- Mike* 
_
Ukrainian communist leader to challenge disbanding of party faction in court

KIEV, July 25. /ITAR-TASS/. Ukrainian Communist Party leader Petro Symonenko said he would challenge the parliament’s decision to disband the party’s faction in Ukrainian courts at first and then in the European Court of Human Rights.

The Verkhovna Rada (parliament) on Thursday voted to disband the communist faction. Parliament Speaker Oleksandr Turchynov said, “*We have corrected a historical mistake and I hope that the communist ideology will never exist in our society again.*”

Symonenko said “attempts by the political opponents to remove the Communist Party from the political stage will lead to nowhere… They will not intimidate us, and *these statements [on banning the party] once again prove that they don’t want to see a different point of view*.”

Former lawmaker Boris Bespaly, who worked in the previous three parliaments, said communist deputies could set up a new group as “they were not banished from the debating chamber”. “But if the party is banned, then *this will call into question the communists’ participation in the incumbent parliament and in the new elections*,” Bespaly said.

The Kiev Circuit Administrative Court on Thursday began examining the Justice Ministry’s appeal for banning the Communist Party. Judge Lyudmila Marulina adjourned the hearing until August 14.

The Communist Party founded in 1918 is the oldest political force in modern Ukraine. In 1991, it was registered as “a newly created political party”.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Bones how does this thread look?











Its dead Jim...


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_As the number of coffins being sent back to the west from the Kiev junta's punitive military action in eastern Ukraine grows, the more the dissatisfaction of the Ukrainian people with the junta and its Washington masters increases.

Protests against Poroshenko's genocidal punitive war against the Ukrainian people in the east has spread to the very heart of the western regions that supported the Maidan such as Ivano-Frankivsk and Chernivtsy.

The Kiev junta is spending $6 million a day perpetrating its genocide and running out of neo-Nazis to carry out its atrocities. A general mobilization has been declared, but the Ukrainian people have told the pig Poroshenko and the weasel Yatsiniuk to go fuck themselves. The general widespread attitude is that they are not sending their children to fight their fellow countrymen and, "if he wants a war Yatsiniuk should go fight it himself!" 

- Mike_

*Western Ukrainians burn their draft call up notices - Refuse to send their children to war against their fellow countrymen*




Protests against the new law on mobilisation have been taking place in different parts of the country (Transcarpathia and Bukovina, Ivano-Frankivsk, Chernivtsy, etc). In this one a group of villagers burn their mobilisation writs and reject Kiev’s war in the Donbass.


*Antiwar protests of farmers and peasants in Western Ukraine Chernivtsy region*




Antiwar protests of farmers and peasants in Chernivtsy region (western Ukraine) protest against new wave of army mobilization.
“We don’t war – we want peace. We don't need that war”,
"We raised our children not for war”.
"We will not give them our children”,
“*Yatsenyuk, you shouted about ‘better bullet in the forehead’ – so, go to the battlefront yourself*”,
“Let those who shouted on Maidan – go to that war, but we didn’t seek that war. We are one village – one big community. we will not let anybody to go to war – neither my husband nor some elses. Neither sons, nor their parents”.
“They started it all – that’s their business”,
“We’ll lie down along the road – we’ll not let them to take our sons”



*Riot in Western Ukraine against army mobilization*

Posted on July 25, 2014 

“*Let the children of officials, judges and prosecutors go to the front, then ours will go*”. Residents of several villages in Ivano-Frankivsk region first held a rally before regional administration against mobilization. Then, on 22 July broke in the local military registration building and set ablaze all the papers and documents about mobilization. 

According to ZIK.UA, on July 22, in the town of Bogorodchany in Ivano-Frankivsk region, near the presidential residence in Huta, *the inhabitants of several Carpathian towns and villages “first picketed the first office building RDA and District Council, and later broke into the military registration office and burnt documents related to mobilization*.

A separate report in Vesti quoted the relatives of the soldiers saying their sons were being used as “cannon fodder”: *“Let the children of officials, judges and prosecutors go to the front, and then we will go.”

The newspaper also reported there had been other protests in Yaremcha, in Ivano-Frankivsk region, and Sambor in Lviv region - all in Western Ukraine.

A video published by 112.ua showed soldiers’ relatives blocking the road demanding the return of the soldiers and protesting against their officers in Obukhivs’kyi district, near Kyiv, on July 25.*


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_The news from the front would seem to indicate that the tide is starting to turn against the Kiev junta. With protests across the country (including Western Ukraine) against military mobilization and losses of troops and equipment mounting, it looks like Poroshenko's War is in deep shit and running out of steam.

The Right Sector fascists of the National Guard have taken massive losses that are being ignored and/or downplayed in the western press. Washington and NATO talk about sending weapons would seem to indicate that things are not as rosy as Forbes and the NY Times would have their readers believe.

The latest news from the front that the western press has yet to comment on can be read below.

- Mike 
_


Junta forces negotiating their surrender to self-defense forces in Lugansk

On Sunday, opolchenie HQ told us that *a large junta unit that is surrounded in the southern Lugansk People’s Republic (LNR) began negotiations with the opolchenie on surrender terms*. 

A source said, “They’re all out of food, water, and fuel, they only have sufficient small-arms ammunition for a couple of days of fighting, so, they asked us to hold negotiations. *They proposed to destroy all their heavy equipment (about 70 pieces) and hand over their ammunition and weapons, if we let them go to Ukrainian territory”*. 

The opolchenie didn’t agree to these terms. *A major requirement is that the junta forces have to hand over all equipment intact*. Our source said, “We could end it all in four to five days. We simply have to surround them, without engaging in close combat, keeping them under artillery fire. The supplies of the surrounded units are nearly out due to the large losses of military transport aviation assets, now almost reduced to nil. *Enemy cargo planes drop their loads from high altitudes, leading to most supply drops landing in opolchenie-controlled territory”*. 

The cut-off groups of junta forces attempted to block DNR and LNR access to the border, but they were unable to carry out this mission.

3 August 2014



Ukrainian army suffers crushing defeat near Shakhtyorsk

World 
August 01, 22:14 UTC+4 

*The militias have practically destroyed the 25th Ukrainian aero-mobile division and 30 armored vehicles, and seized 2 infantry combat vehicles*.

DONETSK, August 01. /ITAR-TASS/. Ukrainian troops have suffered a crushing defeat near the southeast Ukrainian town of Shaktyorsk over the past 24 hours, the press service of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic reported on Friday. 

“The militias have practically destroyed the 25th Ukrainian aero-mobile division and 30 armored vehicles. They have also seized 2 infantry combat vehicles from the enemy who suffered significant losses in manpower,” the press service said.

Several captured Ukrainian soldiers told the militias that the Kiev authorities had forced them into joining the army and sent them to die on the eastern front under a threat of bodily harm. *The militias, in turn, noticed that the Ukrainian army was exhausted and was running out of steam*.

“*Modern tanks which appeared on the battlefield in the first days of the war have given way to old combat vehicles which have either been in long storage or have been received from the armies of foreign countries such as Poland,*” the militias said.

The militia fighters repelled a Ukrainian tank attack against the Yasinovataya populated locality last night. The situation remained stable on all the fronts on August 1 with the militias having the upper hand. The Ukrainian army is retreating from Shakhtyorsk, Torez and Zugres in the south with colossal losses.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

MASS DESERTIONS OF KIEV JUNTA TROOPS BEGIN IN THE EAST

To add to the growing woes of pig Poroshenko, weasel Yatsiniuk, and their junta in Kiev are desertions in the ranks of the regular Ukrainian Army. Yesterday 438 Ukrainian soldiers told the neo-Nazis of the junta to go fuck themselves and walked across the border to Russia.

There have been desertions of up to 40 Ukrainian soldiers at a time, but this was the biggest single mass desertion reported yet. Just because Washington tells them to, the average Ukrainian is not going to shoot down his own people. The only ones that will do that are the Right Sector and Svoboda neo-Nazis of the National Guard. And, the junta may be starting to run short of these killers.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*BREAKING NEWS FROM THE FRONT!*

The news is only half an hour old and not out in any of the western or eastern mass media yet, but it appears that *702 UKRAINIAN SOLDIERS HAVE SURRENDERED AND BEEN TAKEN INTO CAPITIVITY IN SHAKHTYORSK*.

Add that to the *400+* that deserted yesterday and it looks like we may have here a snowball rolling down hill building up momentum and size.

I said it before and I'll say it again - Ukrainians are not going to shoot fellow Ukrainians because America tells them to. And, this is a war against U.S. backed Western Ukrainian fascist butchers, NOT Ukrainian against Ukrainian!

*DEATH TO POROSHENKO AND THE WASHINGTON PUPPET KIEV JUNTA!* 

- Mike


Срочно! Ополчение взяло в плен 702 бойца ВСУ

04 августа • 21:17

Полчаса назад от командира Д.О.Л.Г.: поступило сообщение от ополченцев о том, что в Шахтерске, который удерживается в обороне содружественными подразделениями ДОЛГ, ОПЛОТ, Восток, РПА и Стрелковцами, сдалось в плен 702 человека из украинской армии.


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## CJ (Jun 28, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> I said it before and I'll say it again - Ukrainians are not going to shoot fellow Ukrainians because America tells them to. And, this is a war against U.S. backed Western Ukrainian fascist butchers, NOT Ukrainian against Ukrainian!


:aries2

That makes no sense, so if the war isn't Ukrainian vs Ukrainian then who's doing all the fighting? Do you no longer consider Western Ukrainians to be Ukrainian or something?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

why2cj said:


> :aries2
> 
> That makes no sense, so if the war isn't Ukrainian vs Ukrainian then who's doing all the fighting? Do you no longer consider Western Ukrainians to be Ukrainian or something?


Seriously, that is a good question. 

It makes sense when you consider that the culture, ideologies, and mentality of the Western Ukrainians and Ukrainians in the south and east are very different. Add to the mix the people in Central Ukraine who are literally in between both other groups. 

The only analogy that I can make that would be easy for an American to relate to is the North and South of the United States prior to the American Civil War. Both regions had developed completely different cultures and ways of life. The people living in the North and South were all Americans and spoke English, but you would think you were in a different country when visiting each region.

Historically, in Ukraine the western one third of the country was occupied and cut off from the central part of the country for long periods of time. The people there were subject to the yoke of Poles, Austrians, Germans, etc. They developed a defensive, antagonistic, nationalistic attitude toward everyone outside of their area, including Ukrainians in the central and eastern part of the country. By the time WW II rolled around they were more than ready to join the Nazis and participate in genocides of Jews, Poles, and Russians.

Where the fighting is now going on was actually part of Russia (Novorossiya/New Russia) which wound up part of Ukraine in the chaos of history and the people living there today are ethnic Ukrainians, ethnic Russians, and mixed ethnic Russian/Ukrainians. The eastern Ukraine was also the tradional home of the Zaparozhtsi Cossacks and other Cossack clans that fought to keep out the Poles and others who successfully subjugated Western Ukraine.

The people of Central Ukraine are probably the closest to being what one might call historic "ethnic" Ukrainians. 

The point is that Ukraine is not a monolithic nation. It is divided into not two, but three distinct segments - Western Ukrainians, Central Ukrainians, and Eastern/Southern Ukrainians. Throw into the mix Jews, Hungarians, and other nationalities that live in the country and the picture becomes even more complicated.

The bottom line is that most Ukrainians don't want this war. It is being fought by the Western Ukrainian Right Sector and Svoboda neo-Nazis that make up the troops of the National Guard. The conscripts in the Ukrainian regular army from Central and Eastern Ukraine don't want anything to do with fighting their fellow Ukrainians. I believe that they will continue to surrender and desert in ever increasing numbers.

In any case, I am *NOT* trying to SPAM here. I am just answering your question.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_Russia's recent ban on the import of agricultural products and processed foods from the United States and European Union may be initially inconvenient for the country. However, in the long run it will be a godsend in that Russia will be free of any dependence whatsoever on food from the West.

After the drunken, murderer Yeltsin destroyed the Russian economy and, especially the agricultural sector, nearly 40% of the food consumed in Russia was being imported from the West in the 1990s. Nearly 70% of the food consumed in Moscow and the larger urban areas was imported at that time.

After Yeltsin's regime was driven from office and Russia stoped groveling at the feet of the U.S. things got better. However, this will put a final end to any kind of food dependence on the West and bring Russia a big step closer to not having to deal with the United States and the EU in general. 

In the meantime, economic partners Belarus and Kazakhstan will be picking up the slack. For those two nations this is a huge boost to their agro exports. 

- Mike_



Putin in Trade Talks With Belarusian, Kazakh Presidents in Wake of Food Ban








[/URL][/IMG]
*Presidents Lukashenko (Belarus), Nazarbayev (Kazakhstan), Putin (Russia)
*
MOSCOW, August 7 (RIA Novosti) – Russian President Vladimir Putin discussed with Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko and Kazakhstan’s President Nursultan Nazarbayev the coordination of trade and economy after Russia imposed food import embargo against a number of Western countries, the Kremlin’s press center said on Thursday.

“Various aspects were discussed on the aspects of integrated cooperation within the Eurasian Economic Union that is being created, including the coordination of activities in the trade and economic areas after decisions were taken on the limitations of imports of several types of agricultural goods and foodstuffs from the EU, the US, and a number of other countries into Russia,” the Kremlin said.

“During an exchange of opinions on the development of the crisis situation in Ukraine, the need for constructive joint work in various formats were emphasized with the goal of mutual action in halting military activities and the launch of an actual political internal Ukrainian dialogue,” the Kremlin added.

*Russia is going to rely on its economic partners outside the European Union for agricultural imports. At present, it is seeking to replace essential EU deliveries by products from blocs that Russia is a member of, including the fledgling Eurasian Economic Union (EAU) and the BRICS group of emerging economies.
*
Both Kazakhstan and Belarus are the founding members of the EAU economic union.* Belarus earlier pledged to widen the range of its exports to Russia by including noodles, vegetables, groceries, confectionary products, meat and dairy products*.

On Thursday, Russia unveiled its list of banned agriculture products from the United States, European Union and other countries that imposed US-backed sanctions against Russia earlier.

*The one-year ban will target imports of beef, pork, fish, poultry, fruits, vegetables, nuts, as well as cheese and other dairy from the European Union, Canada, Australia and Norway.* The embargo does not include alcoholic beverages, infant foods and products.

At the height of the Ukrainian crisis, the United States imposed several rounds of sanctions against Russian officials, business people and companies and pressed for the allies in the West to follow its lead. The European Union, Canada, and Australia soon caved in to the US sanctions push and drew up their own blacklists.

Moscow said it is ready to review the terms of its import restrictions if Western partners show commitment to dialogue.


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

PM Alexander Stubb on July 27th: "_Imposing sanctions on Russia won't have a radical effect on Finnish economy_"

PM Alexander Stubb on Aug. 7th: "_Russia sanctions could lead to economic crisis in Finland_"


Well isn't this just fun. Although, a small part of me is actually glad this is happening because this should significantly lower Stubb's (and his party's) popularity and they'll hopefully fall out of the government after next years election. 8 years of destroying our economy should be enough.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Allur said:


> PM Alexander Stubb on July 27th: "_Imposing sanctions on Russia won't have a radical effect on Finnish economy_"
> 
> PM Alexander Stubb on Aug. 7th: "_Russia sanctions could lead to economic crisis in Finland_"
> 
> ...


I googled him and this came up:










And then this:










:lmao Damn, he's got one creepy smile.


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

Perhaps Batko can comment on his go-to authority on who is and who is not a real freedom fighter, Dugin, getting sacked from his job as a member of the Sociology Faculty of Moscow Sate University. Dugin claims he was fired, the University says no no no he's still working there his contract just expired and a new one has not been signed yet. Dugin himself has heavily implied that it was World Number One Freedom Fighter Vladimir Putin (or his "lunar" side anyway) that got him fired, or shadowy fascists in the Russian government implying to the university that Putin wanted him gone.

It's so hard to keep track of who is a freedom fighter and who is a fascist from one day to the next, if even a man like Dugin can fall prey to the whims of today freedom fighter against fascism tomorrow conciliator with fascists (or helpless dupe of fascist fifth columnists inside the intelligentsia and the Kremlin) Vladimir Putin.


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

The Manowarrior said:


> I googled him and this came up:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

Allur said:


> Yeah. That second pic could work as a smilie on the forums lol
> 
> He's a creepy baboon all around, too. In fact, here's how he opened his campaign for the European parliament elections past winter. An election in which he gained almost twice the votes the second placing candidate got and he never sat on the parliament for one day.


Finland the greatest

If a politician did this in the USA he'd get crucified for being insensitive to retarded people (well whatever the PC term for retarded people is these days)

In Finland this guy gets to be PM

:bow


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_It would appear that the western media has no real interest in discerning what is really going on in Ukraine. 

Forty journalists from Western news outlets including CNN, NY Times, Washington Post, Reuters, and the Christian Science Monitor were contacted by the Russian government and invited to interview the 438 Ukrainian troops who surrendered and asked Russia for asylum last week. 

Except for the correpondent from Bloomberg all of them declined. What legitimate news person would turn down that kind of opportunity? The West doesn't want to hear the truth about what is happening in Ukraine. They prefer getting all their news from Kyiv Post and other junta news sources.

- Mike_


American media refuse to meet with Ukrainian servicemen who asked for asylum in Russia

Russia 

August 06, 10:40 UTC+4 

_*Russia’s Foreign Ministry stated that out of all American journalists, only representatives of Bloomberg came to the meeting*_








[/URL][/IMG]

MOSCOW, August 6. /ITAR-TASS/. Journalists from leading US media working in Russia refused to personally interview Ukrainian soldiers, who earlier in the week crossed the border into Russia asking for asylum, a deputy head of the Russian Foreign Ministry’s press department said.

On early Monday a group of 438 Ukrainian troops and border guards from pro-Kiev forces fighting against militia in the embattled southeast of Ukraine asked Russia’s southern border authorities for permission to enter Russia seeking asylum, and a humanitarian corridor was opened for them.

Maria Zakharova wrote in her Facebook account that as the news broke out on Monday about over 400 Ukrainian soldiers crossing into Russia seeking asylum, the Russian Foreign Ministry decided to arrange a meeting with the soldiers for foreign journalists accredited in Russia.

“*Keeping in mind how important it will be for journalists, particularly for foreign ones, to talk to Ukrainian military servicemen, to learn firsthand about the real combat actions, motivation of the Ukrainian soldiers and the actual reasons behind their decision [to seek asylum], we decided to invite a group of foreign correspondents to the Rostov Region,” Zakharova said*.

She said an aircraft from the Russian Defense Ministry was scheduled for flight on Monday to the Rostov Region, where the Ukrainian soldiers were temporary sheltered, and the plane was ready to take along a group of between 30 and 40 journalists.

“We have immediately started calling everyone,” she said. “We gathered up to 40 [correspondents] within an hour.”

*However, Zakharova said, there was only Bloomberg news agency representative in the group as the rest of the US media decided to decline the ministry’s initiative*.

“Except for Bloomberg there were no journalists representing US media!!! An opportunity to meet with the Ukrainian military servicemen, who crossed into the Russian territory, was declined by representatives of leading US media,” she said. *“They were CNN, The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Christian Science Monitor.”*

“What are these journalists base their materials upon if they decline talking to firsthand sources?” Zakharova said. “The funniest episode was with Reuters journalist, who registered, left for the airport, but changed his mind half way there and did not fly.”

“Russia is being criticized for little interaction with western media and it is allegedly the reason for Russia’s media blackout,” she said. “*But the fact is that we speak and they either refuse to listen or they are prohibited from listening*.”

The Ukrainian military servicemen, who laid down arms and crossed into Russia, were accommodated in a tent camp that was set up for them near the Gukovo border checkpoint in Russia’s Rostov Region.

*The soldiers expressed surprise over being treated well on the Russian territory *as, according to them, news information they gathered earlier from Kiev media was in sharp contrast to the reality they saw.

“We could have a bath, received new clothes. We are very grateful,” one of them told Russian LifeNews online television channel.

*According to the Ukrainian soldier, before they crossed the border they had been told that Russia was an “aggressor country” engaged in combat operations against them, but now they found out that it was not true, he added*.

http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/743699


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

Well, the Russian imposed sanctions will cost Australia (my country) a good $401 million, but they have every right to exercise their own sanctions. Let's just hope this does not prove detrimental to the Russian people, and, of course, the Australian economy. I am sure Putin does not care for agricultural shortages in his own country as long as he gets his message across. Still, Australia expressing their ardent disapproval for Russian sanctions is a bit ironic. Why are we complaining when we sanctioned Russia _first_? Did we merely expect them not to retaliate? Of course they'll respond. People should know by now that Russia _do not_ compromise to Western orders, so this apparent shockwave spiralling across Australia is ludicrous. 

We're currently experiencing economic warfare. Sanctions could only be the beginning. I think people understand that there is no point in two nuclear powers engaging in conventional military conflict, so they're being restrained in that aspect.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

I don't know about you but when a government asks me to interview specific people I'm sure the interview will be on the level and not full of prepped statements and that will support their view 

I mean defectors are well known for not disliking the side of the conflict that they are leaving and the nation they defected to is also surely going to give me interviews that will totally not be blind praise for their side 

It would totally not be waste of my time to interview people that a faction WANTS me to interview


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

If it were an interview of defectors from Novorossiya hosted by the Kiev junta I believe the Western journalists would have knocked each other over to attend.

The bottom line is virtually all the news coming out of Ukraine from Western journalists is taken from pro-junta news sources and follows Washington's agenda. They don't want to know anything else. 

- Mike


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## Muerte al fascismo (Feb 3, 2008)

From a couple of discussions with journalists, the rebels are not exactly easy to work with. They don't allow any forensic questioning that deviates from the Pro-Moscow line. Perhaps that is why many are reluctant to work with them?

The girl who quit RT, who is not at all pro-western establishment, gave similar reasons for her departure.

Just seems like we are stumbling into another stupid cold-war.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Funny story 

I was doing some research for Sino-Japan war project and ended up in a link chain and discovered something kind of funny

Russia Today is extremely popular with conspiracy terrorists who see at as the more "marketable" version of infowars

They have given air time to "truthers" "Birthers" said the Boston bombing was an inside job, has an anchor who runs a show where he regularly talks about the JFK assassination and regularly brings Alex Jones in to do discussions 

They also aired ads during the 2010 election that compared Obama with the head of Iran and said he would cause nuclear war

(also for the lols Russia recently passed laws that greatly increased the punishment for separatism in Russia, I guess only pro Russia separatism is mora)


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

If they want to be interviewed, it doesn't mean that the journalist MUST interview them.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

stevefox1200 said:


> Funny story
> 
> I was doing some research and ended up in a link page and discovered something kind of funny
> 
> ...


Yeah, typical RT. I've never seen Fox News do any stupid things like this. Oh, wait...


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## SovietWrestler (May 30, 2012)

Let's talk about more facts:

- Population of socialist Latvia and capitalist Latvia.










- GNP of socialist Ukraine and capitalist Ukraine.










- Food consumption for 2012 (Capitalist Russia) to 1990 (Socialist Russia).










- Cattle of soviet Russia and capitalist Russia..










- Consumption of milk and milk products of soviet Russia and capitalist Russia.


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

SovietWrestler said:


> Let's talk about more facts:
> 
> - Population of socialist Latvia and capitalist Latvia.
> 
> ...


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Allur said:


> Now if you'd kindly say what you're trying to tell us by posting these facts.


THAT ITS ALWAYS SUNNY IN NORTH KOREA


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

With the Communist Party Ukraine banned and the Party of Regions reduced to a figurehead in parliament, there is no question that the Verkhovna Rada is controlled by the perpetrators of the Maidan insurgency. 

So, when a group of MPs gets together to petition the government about the ongoing coverup of the massive casualties and deaths in the east, I think it is safe to say it's not the propaganda of an "opposition" faction. There are no opposition factions left!

Apparently, there have been over *2,500 Ukrainian troops killed *and over *5,000 wounded *in the last 4 months in the fighting in Novorossiya. I would think (and hope) that most of them were Right Sector Western Ukrainian National Guardsmen.

Apparently, in an effort to keep the number of casualties quiet and prevent the public from finding out they don't notify the families when a soldier is killed. According to the MPs in the Rada they are dumping the dead in trucks and carting them off to unknown locations.

The flip side of the coin is that there have been a huge number of civilian deaths due to the indiscriminate shelling and GRAD rocket attacks by National Guard thugs on population centers. The UN estimates that 1,300 non-combatant civilians have died since the outbreak of hostilities. It's probably double that number.

100,000 civilians have been driven from their homes and are now either internal refugees or refugees just over the border inside Russia.

- Mike

http://rt.com/news/179048-ten-thousand-killed-ukraine/


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

RT Reports 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 dead Ukrainians

They were killed personally by Obama with a transforming drone know as the NATOmas Prime which was built by the 7th Reich which is the most popular political party and music group in Europe 

Putin then boarded a winged unicorn to chase it off with a holy sword and returned back to Russia to continue ignoring protests of his economic strategies and his election fraud habit 

More than meets the eye 
commander and chief in disguise


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*RUSSIAN ORTHODOX BLAGOVESHCHINSKY SOBOR (CATHEDRAL) WAS SHELLED FOR NO APPARENT REASON BY THE KIEV JUNTA'S NATIONAL GUARD IN A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE NO FIGHTING WAS GOING ON.*








*RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CATHEDRAL IN GORLOVKA BEFORE THE KIEV JUNTA'S NAZI NATIONAL GUARD GOT THROUGH WITH IT!*







[/URL][/IMG]


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

KIEV JUNTA'S ARMED RIGHT SECTOR NAZIS MEET THEIR FATE ON THE ROAD TO DONETSK

*Warning: The video below is graphic and not for kids.*






"The bus with Right Sector was heading in the direction of Zaporozhia to Donetsk. They ran into our checkpoint. Well, our guys gave battle..." "There's nothing to say. The same will happen to anyone that invades my homeland..." "They were armed..." 

DEATH TO THE WESTERN UKRAINIAN FASCISTS!

DEATH TO THE KIEV JUNTA!

СМЕРТЬ ЗАПАДНЫМ УКРАЙНСКИМ ФАШИСТАМ!

СМЕРТЬ КИЕВСКОЙ ХУНТЕ!


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

It looks like the West has shot itself in the foot with sanctions against Russia. You can only poke the bear for so long before you get clawed.

On the flip side, maybe we consumers in the States will get lower food prices because American food producers will be barred by the Russian government from exporting to that country.

- Mike

Rusy: Belarus ready to increase food supplies to Russia by 15-50%








[/URL][/IMG]

MOSCOW, 13 August (BelTA) - Belarus is ready to increase food supplies to Russia by 15-50% depending on the type of product by the end of the year, Vice Prime Minister of Belarus Mikhail Rusy said as he met with Russian Deputy Prime Minister Arkady Dvorkovich in Moscow on 13 August, BelTA has learned.

According to Mikhail Rusy, the supply of dairy products may be increased by 40-50%, including cheese by 40,000 tonnes, semi-cooked meat products by 15-40%, vegetables by 40%, potatoes two times.

"We have assessed all possible sources to redistribute supplies, and agreed that we will adjust our supply budgets across a number of products, including those where our Russian partners have issues," said Mikhail Rusy.

He said that appropriate instructions were given to the agriculture ministers of Belarus and Russia. The two countries' agricultural authorities will monitor the situation every week and, if necessary, adjust the supplies of Belarusian foodstuffs to Russia.

Additional deliveries of Belarusian goods will be sent, first of all, to Moscow, St. Petersburg, and Kaliningrad Oblast. "If the Russian government specifies a certain region, we will help satisfy the demand there," said Mikhail Rusy.

This year Belarus expects good harvest of potatoes, and is ready to deliver more than 1 million tonnes of potatoes to Russia. "Belarus has modern potato storage facilities for 600,000 tonnes. We can schedule monthly and supply Russian retail networks with necessary volumes of potatoes in any form they need - washed, packed and so on,” said the Belarusian Vice Premier.

He added that the Belarusian food export will amount to $6.3-6.5 billion in 2014.




Central Asia Stands to Gain as Russia Bans Western Food

August 8, 2014 - 2:30am, by Chris Rickleton Inside the Cocoon

*As Moscow’s ties with the West continue to deteriorate, Central Asian farmers may be saying prayers for Russian President Vladimir Putin*.

The Kremlin slapped restrictions on imports of meat, dairy, fruit and vegetables from the US, EU, Norway, Canada and Australia on August 7, in response to progressively heavier Western sanctions designed to punish Moscow for supporting rebels in eastern Ukraine.

While that is bad news for Russians who like Camembert and thousands of American and European producers supplying Russia, *there is an obvious beneficiary from the fallout: Central Asia, which already supplies Russia with much of its pro*duce.

On August 7 the New York Times detailed the size of the gap in the Russian market that must now be filled: 

According to figures compiled by the [World Bank] and other agencies, *Russia imports about 25 percent of its food*, worth some $43 billion annually. Of that, *about 75 percent, or $30 billion, comes mainly from Europe and the United States. The other 25 percent is mainly from former Soviet republics*.

Russia has already turned to its partners in the Eurasian Economic Union, Belarus and Kazakhstan, to help pick up the slack, Agriculture Minister Nikolai Fyodorov said on August 7.

After Putin called Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko and Kazakhstan’s Nursultan Nazarbayev on August 7, RIA Novosti reported:

*Russia is going to rely on its economic partners outside the European Union for agricultural imports.* At present, it is seeking to replace essential EU deliveries by products from blocs that Russia is a member of, including the fledgling Eurasian Economic Union (EAU) and the BRICS group of emerging economies.

This is not the first time Astana has benefitted as events in Ukraine have turned south: As Kiev moved toward an association agreement with the European Union a year ago, Russia kicked popular Ukrainian chocolatier Roshen out of its domestic market, opening the door for more exports from Kazakhstan-based confectioners.

*Further south, in fruit-rich Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, there is also cause for celebration*.

“A huge market is opening. It is necessary to prepare as many quality products as possible to be ready to export them to Russia,” Kyrgyzstan’s prime minister said on August 8.

Kyrgyzstan’s deputy economics minister, Danilar Ibraev, told Kloop.kg that his office has already appealed to the Eurasian Economic Union to allow in Kyrgyz meat and milk. That reference to the EEU is noteworthy. Moscow has been pushing to expand its union south into Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan. Kyrgyzstan is dragging its feet, Tajikistan says it is waiting for Kyrgyzstan, and Uzbekistan shows no interest at all. 

Moscow can now add the lure of broader access to its market to advance its integration agenda.


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## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

Will there be anyone left unsanctioned after all these sanctions!?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

NEO-NAZI INDOCTRINATION BY THE KIEV JUNTA BEGINS IN KINDERGARTEN - 
RADA DEPUTY TELLS CHILDREN THEIR NAMES ARE NO GOOD UNLESS THEY ARE THE UKRAINIAN VARIANT OF THE NAME

_This is what they won't tell you in the Western press, because then they would have to explain why the United States and the NATO countries support open, neo-Nazi brainwashing of children.

- Mike
_

Rada People's Deputy Irina Farion from the *Svoboda faction*, which helped the junta take power in the 2014 insurgency in Ukraine, *tells children in a kindergarten that their names are wrong*. 

This woman has also said things like, “*The demonstrators against the government should be killed*”, and after the arson fire in Odessa that killed 35+ anti-Kiev demonstrators, she wrote on Facebook, “*Bravo Odessa…. Let the demons burn in hell*”.


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## Morrison17 (Feb 16, 2013)

Batko10 said:


> NEO-NAZI INDOCTRINATION BY THE KIEV JUNTA BEGINS IN KINDERGARTEN -
> RADA DEPUTY TELLS CHILDREN THEIR NAMES ARE NO GOOD UNLESS THEY ARE THE UKRAINIAN VARIANT OF THE NAME
> 
> _This is what they won't tell you in the Western press, because then they would have to explain why the United States and the NATO countries support open, neo-Nazi brainwashing of children.
> ...


Oh my God. I cant believe this happened in country I live in.
I am shocked by this video. What the fuck is wrong with that woman?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_The wives and mothers of the young men drafted by the Kiev junta to carry out its punitive military action against Donetsk and Lugansk have been increasingly taking to the streets over the last month. Women's demonstrations against Poroshenko's war and the military call up have also taken place in Western Ukraine where the Maidan mob has its center of support.

- Mike
_

*MASKED NEO-NAZI RIGHT SECTOR SCUM ATTEMPT TO INTIMIDATE KHARKOV FEMALE ANTI-WAR PROTESTORS*




*Signs read:* "Children Return to Your Mothers," "Kharkov Women's Movement Against the War," "Soldier! Don't Shoot Your Own People."
*Demonstrators sing:* "Let their always be a sun, Let there always be a sky, Let there always be mom, And let there always be I."
*Demonstrators chant:* "No to civil war!"


*KIEV WIVES & MOTHERS PROTEST MILITARY DRAFT, WAR IN THE EAST*




 ".. Why did they send my son and not their own. Only the children of socially vulnerable families are on the front line. There are no children of Officials there"


*WIVES & MOTHERS RALLY OUTSIDE RED CROSS IN KIEV AGAINST POROSHENKO'S WAR*




*Two Signs in Russian:* "1941 - For What?"
*Sign in Ukrainian:* "2014 - For What?"
Blond woman, "...Ukrainians are killing Ukrainians..."

*ANTI-MOBILIZATION, ANTI-WAR DEMONSTRATIONS IN WESTERN UKRAINE*




Antiwar protests of farmers and peasants in Chernivtsy region (western Ukraine) protest against new wave of army mobilization.
“We don’t war – we want peace. We don't need that war”,
"We raised our children not for war”.
"We will not give them our children”,
“Yatsenyuk, you shouted about ‘better bullet in the forehead’ – so, go to the battlefront yourself”,
“Let those who shouted on Maidan – go to that war, but we didn’t seek that war. We are one village – one big community. we will not let anybody to go to war – neither my husband nor some elses. Neither sons, nor their parents”.
“They started it all – that’s their business”,
“We’ll lie down along the road – we’ll not let them to take our sons”


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

RADA PARLIAMENTARIAN O.V. LYASHKO LEADS NEO-NAZIS IN DISRUPTION OF RELIGIOUS SERVICE

Feeling confident with the backing of the U.S. and E.U., the Western Ukrainian neo-Nazi element has increased its attacks on the Orthodox Church. The recent attempt by masked Right Sector and Svoboda thugs in Kiev to forcibly enter and desecrate the Lavra Monastery has been followed by increasing attacks and harrassment of local Orthodox churches.

In the video below *Parliament People's Deputy O.V. Lyashko* leads a convoy of thugs belonging to his fascist Lyashko Party and neo-Nazi Svoboda Party to an Orthodox church in Kiev oblast (region). On the fence they painted slurs in Ukrainian: "MANUALS (TEXTBOOKS)OF TERRORISTS," "SERVANTS OF PUTIN," and "LAIR OF A MOSCOW PRIEST." Then they entered the church grounds and disrupted a religious service and threatened and humiliated the priest.

This is what America and Europe support in Ukraine - neo-Nazism at its finest!

- Mike


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## Gandhi (Sep 15, 2012)

631 and counting.


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

I read some Estonian people's comments on Postimees about president Niinistö's visit to Russia (and Ukraine!) and it's pretty damn funny. Apparently Finland suddenly became a super finlandized satellite state of Russia that's going to fall out of Europe. Nice.


Because obviously it's better to sit at home waiting for Obama to send you military equipment than try to solve the issue diplomatically.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

APPEAL TO THE PEOPLES OF EUROPE FROM THE PEOPLE OF NOVOROSSIYA

List members from Europe - don't let Washington get away with murder through its surrogates - Poroshenko and the Kiev junta's fascist National Guard. If you do you are paving the way to your own possible future oppression by strengthening the neo-Nazi movement in Europe starting in Ukraine.

Imagine if you woke up one morning and they announced in Helsinki that Finnish was illegal to speak, your church was an enemy of the state, and you had no say in choosing your government and running your country. Then when you protested they came in with planes, tanks, and troops to force you to obey.

That's what is happening today in Novorossiya and the south and east of Ukraine. 

- Mike 

APPEAL TO THE PEOPLES OF EUROPE FROM THE PEOPLE OF NOVOROSSIYA


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## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

Speaking of Europe, how is the economy doing, guys?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

MESSAGE FROM THE MILITIA

There is some serious hate being built up here by the invasion and atrocities committed by the fascist forces of Poroshenko and the other scumbags of the Kiev junta.

Even if Washington's puppets manage to win a temporary military victory in the east, they will never effectively control the region. - Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

KIEV JUNTA STEPS UP SUPPRESSION OF RUSSIAN LANGUAGE - 14 RUSSIAN LANGUAGE TV STATIONS BANNED IN UKRAINE

The Kiev junta has stepped up its attack on use of the Russian language by banning 14 Russian TV channels from being broadcast in Ukraine by Ukrainian cable providers.

This is a way to kill two birds with one stone - in addition to suppressing the Russian language the Kiev junta is also blocking free access to news. Native Russian speakers, who comprise over 35% of the population, have their language effectively banned from TV and radio, and their access to news and information blocked. 

*RUSSIAN LANGUAGE TV STATIONS BANNED BY KIEV JUNTA* 

1. Channel One. World Feed 
2. RTR-Planeta 
3. Rossiya 24 
4. NTV-Mir 
5. TVCI 
6. Rossiya 1 
7. NTV 
8. TNT 
9. Petersburg 5 
10. Zvezda 
11. REN-TV 
12. RT 
13. Life News 
14. RBK-TV 

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

WALL STREET JOURNAL
Europe News 

Ukraine Suffers Heavy Losses in Counterattack by Pro-Russia Rebels

By James Marson 
Updated *Aug. 21, 2014* 4:28 p.m. ET

MOSCOW—Ukraine suffered heavy losses in a counterattack along a key supply route to the separatist capital of Donetsk, officials said Thursday, underscoring the significant threat posed by pro-Russia rebel fighters despite steady advances by government forces.

Losses have mounted recently, adding more pressure on Kiev to seek a compromise at peace talks next week in the Belarusian capital of Minsk, where Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko and Russian leader Vladimir Putin are scheduled to meet face-to-face for the first time in two months.

The fighting in the town of Ilovaisk left 19 fighters from pro-Kiev volunteer battalions dead and 42 wounded, senior Interior Ministry aide Anton Gerashchenko said Thursday.



Ukraine SU-25 jet fighter shot down as clashes kill dozens
AFP 
By Nicolas Gaudichet with Dmytro Gorshkov in Kiev 
*August 20, 2014* 4:35 PM

Donetsk (Ukraine) (AFP) - A Ukrainian *SU-25* warplane was blown out of the sky over rebel-held territory Wednesday as fierce clashes between government troops and pro-Russian insurgents left dozens of civilians dead.

Military spokesman Andriy Lysenko said a *SU-25* fighter jet was shot close to the second-largest insurgent bastion of Lugansk.


Ukrainian MIG-29 fighter plane shot down by pro-Russia rebels

Agence France-Presse in Donetsk 
theguardian.com, *Sunday 17 August 2014* 05.54 EDT	

Pro-Russia rebels shot down a Ukrainian fighter jet on Sunday, before Kiev and Moscow's top diplomats were due to hold urgent talks to defuse tensions over fighting in the east of the ex-Soviet nation.

Ukraine's military said its *MiG-29 *warplane had been shot down as it carried out "an assignment to eliminate a large group of terrorists" in the Luhansk region. The pilot managed to parachute to safety, it said.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

PEOPLE IN AN UPROAR IN NOWHOROD-WOLYNSKI IN WESTERN UKRAINE - 4,700 DRAFTED AND SENT EAST - 83 RETURNED!!! THE REST ARE DEAD OR MISSING

If this is the mood of the people in Western Ukraine, the base of support of the Kiev junta, then the junta is in deep shit.

Poroshenko and the Kiev junta are using draftees as canon fodder support for the Right Sector and Svoboda Nazis of the National Guard. The pigs in Washington never told Kiev that instituting a national military draft is the surest way to guarantee the downfall of their illegal government. 

Why do you think there hasn't been a military draft in the United States since the Vietnam War??? Washington couldn't conduct its wars, regime changes, police actions, etc. if they used drafted soldiers. The mothers, wives, families, and friends would rise up and put an end to American imperialism once the coffins started returning to the States. With a "professional" army, i.e. mercenary army, of paid volunteers this is not a concern. With the high unemployment rate in the U.S. over the last couple of decades there is no lack of out of work youth willing to join the military for a meal and a paycheck.

- Mike 

*WESTERN UKRAINE - ENGLISH SUBTITLES*

*MOTHER: "I DON"T NEED MY SON IN A COFFIN WITH THEM SHOUTING 'HERO OF UKRAINE.' I PISS ON THIS UKRAINE!"*


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

I don't want to come off like a douchebag, but I'll post one news story, just because it involves my country.

*Lithuania envoy killed in Ukraine - Lithuania says its honorary consul in the rebel-held city of Luhansk in eastern Ukraine has been murdered by terrorists there*

Lithuania says its honorary consul in the rebel-held city of Luhansk in eastern Ukraine has been murdered by "terrorists" there.

Lithuania's Foreign Minister Linas Linkevicius tweeted with "deep sorrow" that "Mr Mykola Zelenec kidnapped & brutally killed by terrorists there".

Ukraine routinely calls the pro-Russian separatists in Luhansk "terrorists".

The news came amid reports that some Russian aid lorries had reached Luhansk without any permission from Ukraine.

There has been no comment from the rebels yet on the Lithuanian diplomat's death.

Lithuania is among the most vociferous EU member states in its criticism of Russian actions in Ukraine. The EU and US accuse Russia of fomenting the separatist rebellion in eastern Ukraine.

Russia-Lithuania tensions
Mr Linkevicius described the entry of the Russian aid convoy into eastern Ukraine as "a blatant violation of international law", echoing Ukraine's condemnation of the move.

The UN Security Council is holding an emergency session at Lithuania's request to discuss the issue.

The Ukraine crisis has heightened tensions between Russia and the three Baltic republics - including Lithuania - which used to be Soviet republics governed from Moscow.

Russia's ambassador to the United Nations, Vitaly Churkin, lambasted the Lithuanian delegation on Friday.

He scorned "the indefatigable delegation of Lithuania, which is always torpedoing all productive, constructive initiatives we've had in the Security Council".

He said Lithuania had amended a Russian proposal calling for a ceasefire while the aid was distributed in Luhansk. He said the Lithuanian delegation "sent in amendments where they dropped the reference to Russia and included a reference to the European Union, and then dropped the reference to a ceasefire".

At the UN, he added, "the Lithuanian delegation starts working, and of course we know the division of labour - the US and UK are not far behind".

Source:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28901386

Lithuanian and Latvian ministers of foreign affairs have tweeted:

https://twitter.com/LinkeviciusL/statuses/502845958229852162

https://twitter.com/edgarsrinkevics/status/502862047923949568


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

The separatists really want a Nato intervention don't they? Fucking hell.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Allur said:


> The separatists really want a Nato intervention don't they? Fucking hell.


If NATO intervenes, then Russians can openly enter Ukraine's territory (as if they're not doing it now), justifying it with "if NATO can, why can't we".


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

The Manowarrior said:


> If NATO intervenes, then Russians can openly enter Ukraine's territory (as if they're not doing it now), justifying it with "if NATO can, why can't we".


I guess so. That's a really dangerous route to take.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Also, I want to share a great moment from my country's and the Baltic States' history. Exactly 25 years ago, 2 million people from Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania formed a human chain, by holding hands, that was 600 km (370 miles) long, which is now known as The Baltic Way. It was their way of peacefully protesting against the Soviet government and showing solidarity of 3 brotherly nations.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

227 TRUCKS WITH HUMANITARIAN AID TO LUGANSK COMPLETE MISSION, RETURN TO RUSSIA EMPTY!

After being stalled for a week by the Kiev junta and threatened by NATO, Russia finally told both to go fuck themselves and moved 227 trailer trucks of humanitarian aid across the Ukrainian border to Lugansk. It was received there by the authorities of Novorossiya and distributed to the civilian population.

*"We’ve stopped paying attention to Mr. Rasmussen’s empty talk and his press secretary. There is no point commenting on them," official representative of Russia’s Defense Ministry Igor Konashenkov stated*.

Hopefully, the next step is to send in Russian troops and drive out the U.S. backed Kiev junta forces. 

- Mike


*MISSION COMPLETED - 227 HUMANITARIAN AID TRUCKS RETURN TO RUSSIA EMPTY*





*RUSSIAN HUMANITARIAN AID ARRIVES IN LUGANSK*


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

its a news story that some trucks dropped off cargo? :lmao

I can imagine why the public has moved on to the middle east and St.Louis

Russia is also investigating any business with western ties to the point of shutting down the local McDonald's


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

PEOPLE OF NOVOROSSIYA MOCK UKRAINE "INDEPENDENCE DAY" WHILE COUNTER OFFENSIVE PUSHES BACK THE KIEV JUNTA INVADERS


*DESPITE FIGHTING AND SHELLING PEOPLE OF DONETSK GATHER TO MOCK UKRAINE INDEPENDENCE DAY*
"Today the former Ukraine celebrates the Day of Independence. In fact, it is so because nowadays nothing is dependent on Ukraine. Everything is dependant on its sponsors and masters..." 





*PRISONERS OF KIEV JUNTA'S FASCIST ARMY PARADED IN THE STREETS OF DONETSK BEFORE THE PEOPLE THEY BOMBED AND MURDERED*
The scum that invaded and killed the people of Novorossiya were paraded in the streets of Donetsk as their victims mocked and jeered them in a further mockery of Ukraine's "Independence Day." Destroyed military equipment of the Kiev junta's punitve forces was on display.





While Poroshenko and the fascists of the Kiev junta were parading their military "might" in Kiev on Ukraine's Independence Day, their brothers in arms were being battered and pushed back by the Novorossiya self-defense forces.

*OVER THE WEEKEND:*
After sustained defensive combat against Ukrainian troops in the self-proclaimed People’s Republic of Donetsk during August, rebels now report entrapping two large groups of Kiev troops and seizing military hardware in a counteroffensive.

"*Some 5,000 Kiev troops “with military hardware” including some 50 tanks, over 200 armored vehicles and 50 artillery rocket systems (including Grad) are trapped in the area," *the DPR claims. 

“DPR’s army has surrounded the staff headquarters of the 8th army corps, 28th and 30th mechanized brigades, 95th air mobile brigade of the army of Ukraine, and also punitive battalions ‘Aidar’, ‘Donbass’ and ‘Shakhtersk’." 

Moreover, the DNR army says it has destroyed *four ‘Smerch’ multiple rocket launch systems, 12 ‘Grad’ multiple rocket launch systems, 17 tanks, 30 armored vehicles, 50 supply trucks, and killed over 150 enemy personnel*. 

“We have captured 7 military supply depots with large quantities of armaments, munitions, aids and appliances, food rations and property of the citizens expropriated by the National Guards during mopping-up operations, including all-terrain vehicles. *From now on we intend to utterly annihilate enemy forces trapped near Olenovskoe and the communities of Kuteinikovo-Blagodatnoye-Uspenskoye,” HQ said*. 



*KIEV JUNTA CELEBRATES INDEPENDENCE DAY WITH MILITARY PARADE*


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> *PRISONERS OF KIEV JUNTA'S FASCIST ARMY PARADED IN THE STREETS OF DONETSK BEFORE THE PEOPLE THEY BOMBED AND MURDERED*
> The scum that invaded and killed the people of Novorossiya were paraded in the streets of Donetsk as their victims mocked and jeered them in a further mockery of Ukraine's "Independence Day." Destroyed military equipment of the Kiev junta's punitve forces was on display.


That violates the Geneva conventions agreements and is essentially a war crime. No matter how fascist and or Nazi the POW's are.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> That violates the Geneva conventions agreements and is essentially a war crime. No matter how fascist and or Nazi the POW's are.


Poroshenko and the Kiev junta are using the Right Sector neo-Nazis to slaughter civilians, and the West is upset about this garbage being paraded so their victims can see them???

After we get through prosecuting Poroshenko, Yatseniuk, and the rest of the Kiev junta for employing firebombing and other methods that indiscriminately kill civilians, then we can worry about Nazi POWs hit with a few eggs from people whose relatives have been killed and homes destroyed by them. 

If anyone doubted the hypocrisy and skewed priorities of the West, this concern about marching captured invaders through the streets should erase those doubts. The E.U. and U.S. should be more concerned with the genocide being committed by the Kiev junta. Oh, wait! Poroshenko and the junta are just following the orders of their masters in Washington and Brussels. My mistake!

- Mike 

MURDERING BASTARDS OF THE RIGHT SECTOR "NATIONAL GUARD" MARCHED THROUGH THE STREETS OF DONETSK LIKE THE PIECES OF SHIT THAT THEY ARE!


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## Muerte al fascismo (Feb 3, 2008)

Batko, the parading of people like prized caged animals is wrong and hardens opinions against the rebels. Two wrongs doesn't equal right


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

LOL Batko has a new tactic (just as RT, who could have thought). Post your side's crimes and act like it's right. I mean, they're no longer even bothering to blame the other side. Just praising their own crimes.


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> Poroshenko and the Kiev junta are using the Right Sector neo-Nazis to slaughter civilians, and the West is upset about this garbage being paraded so their victims can see them???
> 
> After we get through prosecuting Poroshenko, Yatseniuk, and the rest of the Kiev junta for employing firebombing and other methods that indiscriminately kill civilians, then we can worry about Nazi POWs hit with a few eggs from people whose relatives have been killed and homes destroyed by them.
> 
> ...


I don't even agree with "the west" (God how I fucking hate that hesperophobic term) on most of this so it's quite funky how you're using that word in association with me. But what ever, it's not the point here.

The fact just is that committing idiotic and completely avoidable violations such as this one are not going to help the separatists' cause one bit. In fact, it's very much the opposite. "The west" can, and will, use this in the information war and *why wouldn't they*? They were just handed yet another way to demonize their enemies on a silver platter.

The separatists could easily make themselves look like the "good guys" and thus achieving their goal more likely simply by not going along with Kiev in doing this moronic shit. It really grinds my gears when someone (the separatists) is this damn stupid. I want to like them, I really do, but they're making it pretty fucking hard.


_An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind_. Each side of the conflict should keep that in mind.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

The only way to be the "good guy" is to not do war crimes

To say "they do it!!!!" is not a defense and makes people right off the whole fight as MORON VS MORON


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> That violates the Geneva conventions agreements and is essentially a war crime. No matter how fascist and or Nazi the POW's are.


According to expert legal opinion taken from Washington's own "*RADIO LIBERTY*," the parading of the neo-Nazi Kiev junta captives in Donetsk does *NOT* violate the Geneva Convention and is *NOT* a "war crime" by any stretch of the imagination.

Instead of debating whether parading captured invaders is a "war crime," the West should be looking at investigating the real war crimes - Kiev junta's use of phosphorous fire bombs on civlians; shelling hospitals, schools, churches, and civilian housing areas; unleashing Nazi troopers on the civlian population of Novorossiya; etc.

The refusal of the U.S. and E.U. to recognize the war crimes of their puppet Poroshenko and Kiev junta has resulted in no one in the east giving a shit anymore. Whatever they do, good or bad, it will be used against them in the western news media. 

It would also appear that Moscow no longer gives a shit what the U.S. and E.U. think. Russia is preparing another convoy of trucks with humanitarian aid - this time to Donetsk. 

Poroshenko didn't try to stop the first convoy to Lugansk. Personally, I hope he attacks this one so that Russia can have an excuse to send its troops streaming across the border and end this bullshit once and for all.

And, the hawks in Washington will sit there with their fingers up their asses and will do nothing! The E.U. will pray, because if they push too much the only natural gas they will get this winter is from passing wind after eating too many beans.

- Mike 

http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-pow-march-war-crime/26548667.html
RADIO LIBERTY, Aug. 25, 2014

"*Whether the forced march constituted a war crime -- and whether it could be prosecuted as such -- is not so clear-cut, international law experts say*."

"This ambiguity lies largely in how the Ukraine conflict itself is classified, according to David Glazier, an international law expert at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles."

"The rules for civil wars spelled out in the conventions ban "outrages upon personal dignity" and "humiliating and degrading treatment" of POWs. *The rules for wars between governments set a lower bar by including a ban on subjecting these prisoners to "insults and public curiosity*," both of which were on prominent display at the August 24 parade in Donetsk."

"If this is an international armed conflict, this definitely seems to be a clear...violation of the Geneva Convention language," Glazier says of the POW march. "*The problem is if it's not an international armed conflict, then the standard is a much harder one to satisfy: the actual 'outrage upon personal dignity.' And it's not clear that this rises to that level.*"


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> According to expert legal opinion taken from Washington's own "*RADIO LIBERTY*," the parading of the neo-Nazi Kiev junta captives in Donetsk does *NOT* violate the Geneva Convention and is *NOT* a "war crime" by any stretch of the imagination.


And according to for example the director of the National Defence University in Helsinki Torsti Sirén and Ola Solvang of the non-profit organization Human Rights Watch, it is indeed a violation. Yes, as it's unclear if it's an international conflict _yet_, you can make different conclusions. The way I see it, just like Sirén and Solvang, parading POWs in front of people like caged animals on their independence day with the crowd throwing litter at them is nothing less than humiliating and degrading treatment.



Batko10 said:


> Instead of debating whether parading captured invaders is a "war crime," the West should be looking at investigating the real war crimes - Kiev junta's use of phosphorous fire bombs on civlians; shelling hospitals, schools, churches, and civilian housing areas; unleashing Nazi troopers on the civlian population of Novorossiya; etc.


Not _instead_, but _along with_. But, did Hitler investigate the Finnish war crimes in WWII? Did Churchill investigate Stalin's crimes? Does Lavrov investigate the separatists' crimes? As sad as it is, the answer is no. Leaders very rarely investigate their allies' war crimes, as you know very well. 



Batko10 said:


> The refusal of the U.S. and E.U. to recognize the war crimes of their puppet Poroshenko and Kiev junta has resulted in no one in the east giving a shit anymore. Whatever they do, good or bad, it will be used against them in the western news media.


They are ignoring to refuse them, yes, quite like the east refuses to recognize the separatists' war crimes. But like Muerte al fascismo said, two wrongs don't make a right.



Batko10 said:


> It would also appear that Moscow no longer gives a shit what the U.S. and E.U. think. Russia is preparing another convoy of trucks with humanitarian aid - this time to Donetsk.


So they should. Humanitarian aid is never a bad thing.



Batko10 said:


> Poroshenko didn't try to stop the first convoy to Lugansk. Personally, I hope he attacks this one so that Russia can have an excuse to send its troops streaming across the border and end this bullshit once and for all.


Poroshenko knows that this is what Putin and Lavrov want. I doubt he's that stupid, but then again, there's been so much stupid shit going on during the conflict that it wouldn't surprise me. :toomanykobes



Batko10 said:


> And, the hawks in Washington will sit there with their fingers up their asses and will do nothing! The E.U. will pray, because if they push too much the only natural gas they will get this winter is from passing wind after eating too many beans.


Interesting. Here's a serious question: Can Russia afford cutting the gas from Europe altogether?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> ...parading POWs in front of people like caged animals on their independence day with the crowd throwing litter at them is nothing less than humiliating and degrading treatment.
> 
> ...But like Muerte al fascismo said, two wrongs don't make a right.
> 
> ...Interesting. Here's a serious question: Can Russia afford cutting the gas from Europe altogether?


Throwing litter on parading POWs may be humiliating, but it is hardly fatal like throwing burning phosphorous bombs on civilians.

Two wrongs may not make a right, but it is ludicrous to compare the "POW parade" to the deliberate punitive, if not genocidal, actions of the Kiev junta's National Guard. 

The Right Sector and Svoboda elements that make up the vast majority of National Guard troops are equivilant to the Nazi Einsatzgruppen of WW II. These murdering scumbags were sent in because the soldiers of the regular Ukrainian Army wouldn't follow the orders to kill their own people, especially civilians.

To cut Europe off totally from natural gas deliveries right now would hurt the Russian economy significantly. It wouldn't be as bad as "cutting off your nose to spite your face," but it would definitely be extremely painful.

This is precisely why Russia inked the 30 year, $400 billion natural gas deal with China and is looking toward Asia and South America for trading partners rather than in Europe. 

The recent economic sanctions against Russia have proven two things:

Firstly, Russia will not only *NOT* cave in to them, but retaliate with sanctions of its own on food imports from the West. The Russian sanctions against western food imports will allow Russia to become completely independent from the West regarding its food supply and punish the western suppliers by depriving them of income from Russian produce purchases. 

Secondly, it shows that the U.S. couldn't give a shit about the economies of the countries of the European Union. By following the diktat of Washington regarding Russia the countries of the EU are shooting themselves in the foot. The EU countries will be the ones to suffer in an economic battle with Russia, *NOT* the United States. 

If the EU nations had anyone with brains at the helm they would tell Washington to go "fuck off" and stop meddling in European affairs. Even at this point with everything at the precipice I think Russia and western Europe could get along if the U.S. stopped interfering in European affairs.

- Mike


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> Throwing litter on parading POWs may be humiliating, but it is hardly fatal like throwing burning phosphorous bombs on civilians.


Oh of course, it doesn't compare to bombing innocent civilians minding their own business in either Novorossiya or in a Boeing. It's still a (borderline, I guess) war crime.



Batko10 said:


> Two wrongs may not make a right, but it is ludicrous to compare the "POW parade" to the deliberate punitive, if not genocidal, actions of the Kiev junta's National Guard.


I'm not comparing this to any of that. I picked this up because this is the only time (in the thread) war crimes have been treated as a right thing to do.



Batko10 said:


> The Right Sector and Svoboda elements that make up the vast majority of National Guard troops are equivilant to the Nazi Einsatzgruppen of WW II. These murdering scumbags were sent in because the soldiers of the regular Ukrainian Army wouldn't follow the orders to kill their own people, especially civilians.


Seems pretty accurate to me, yes.



Batko10 said:


> To cut Europe off totally from natural gas deliveries right now would hurt the Russian economy significantly. It wouldn't be as bad as "cutting off your nose to spite your face," but it would definitely be extremely painful.
> 
> This is precisely why Russia inked the 30 year, $400 billion natural gas deal with China and is looking toward Asia and South America for trading partners rather than in Europe.


Okay, thanks. Russia indeed seems to be moving away from Europe which is a smart thing for them to do. Europe should also look into other places to get their energy, such as the middle-east.



Batko10 said:


> The recent economic sanctions against Russia have proven two things:
> 
> Firstly, Russia will not only *NOT* cave in to them, but retaliate with sanctions of its own on food imports from the West. The Russian sanctions against western food imports will allow Russia to become completely independent from the West regarding its food supply and punish the western suppliers by depriving them of income from Russian produce purchases.


How are the Russian citizens taking the lack of western products, such as Finnish dairy, in the markets? I know for a fact that a lot of people from the St. Petersburg area and Karelia are currently coming over to Finland to buy food and importing it over the border themselves.



Batko10 said:


> Secondly, it shows that the U.S. couldn't give a shit about the economies of the countries of the European Union. By following the diktat of Washington regarding Russia the countries of the EU are shooting themselves in the foot. The EU countries will be the ones to suffer in an economic battle with Russia, *NOT* the United States.
> 
> If the EU nations had anyone with brains at the helm they would tell Washington to go "fuck off" and stop meddling in European affairs. Even at this point with everything at the precipice I think Russia and western Europe could get along if the U.S. stopped interfering in European affairs.


Nothing to add here. I agree completely.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> How are the Russian citizens taking the lack of western products, such as Finnish dairy, in the markets? I know for a fact that a lot of people from the St. Petersburg area and Karelia are currently coming over to Finland to buy food and importing it over the border themselves.


In my opinion, individual day trips by Russians to Helsinki from St. Petersburg to pick up some food products that they got used to and miss is not going to matter one way or the other. The trailer trucks filled with those products won't be going over the border anytime soon, and that's what the sanctions are aimed at.

Helsinki and St. Petersburg/Leningrad always had a kind of oddball economic relationship. I remember during Soviet times Finns would make regular day trips on the ferry to Leningrad in order to stock up on vodka. Neither the Soviet, nor the Finnish customs people seemed to care about the amounts being brought over by individuals. 

It always seemed to me that the people of Helsinki and people of Leningrad had a kind of symbiotic relationship that was not interfered with for the most part by the authorities of either country.

- Mike

P.S. Regarding your little aside refering to the Malaysian Airlines tragedy, it still hasn't been proved who the guilty party is. The Kiev junta still refuses to release radio conversations between the Boeing and Air Traffic Control. The junta also refuses to release information of why two Ukrainian SU-25 fighter jets were tailing the Malaysian plane. 

Also, with all its superior spy in the sky technology Washington hasn't come up with pictures of the incident??? Their spy satellites are directly pointed at eastern Ukraine and western Russia. I would be amazed if they didn't have the pictures of the exact time of the incident and the plane being actually shot down.


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> In my opinion, individual day trips by Russians to Helsinki from St. Petersburg to pick up some food products that they got used to and miss is not going to matter one way or the other. The trailer trucks filled with those products won't be going over the border anytime soon, and that's what the sanctions are aimed at.


Of course it won't have any economic effect but there might be quite a lot unhappiness in the general middle-income public at the start when the products they're used to consuming get replaced by some products from places like China.




Batko10 said:


> P.S. Regarding your little aside refering to the Malaysian Airlines tragedy, it still hasn't been proved who the guilty party is. The Kiev junta still refuses to release radio conversations between the Boeing and Air Traffic Control. The junta also refuses to release information of why two Ukrainian SU-25 fighter jets were tailing the Malaysian plane.
> 
> Also, with all its superior spy in the sky technology Washington hasn't come up with pictures of the incident??? Their spy satellites are directly pointed at eastern Ukraine and western Russia. I would be amazed if they didn't have the pictures of the exact time of the incident and the plane being actually shot down.


I'm aware of the situation.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

KIEV JUNTA SHELLS RESIDENTIAL CENTER OF DONETSK KILLING CIVILIANS -
NATIONAL GUARD SURROUNDED AND WIPED OUT IN ILOVASK -
IN KIEV PEOPLE DEMONSTRATE FOR A PULL OUT


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

> Seems pretty accurate to me, yes.


Where are the mass graves with hundreds shot in the neck, then? 

According to UN just over 2,000 people have died, about 700 of those are Kiev fighters. It's probably at least a thousand more total dead since no one knows how many separatist fighters have died. 

Einsatzgruppen were death squads that on their own killed hundreds of thousands in about a year before the death camps started taking over. Kiev has been using right-wing paramilitaries for four months. Most dead civilians have been killed by artillery.

If the National Guard are einsatzgruppen, when are they going to start acting like it? Where are the bodies? Where are the mass shooting sites? Where is there any evidence at all? The Nazis couldn't keep einsatzgruppen quiet in 1941, the Allies knew about them and put out vague propaganda (in the West) about Nazi death teams slaughtering to stop resistance movements, how could Ukraine do it in 2014 when Ukraine is many, many times less powerful than Germany was then?


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

deepelemblues said:


> Where are the mass graves with hundreds shot in the neck, then?
> 
> According to UN just over 2,000 people have died, about 700 of those are Kiev fighters. It's probably at least a thousand more total dead since no one knows how many separatist fighters have died.
> 
> ...


SNUFF PICS AHOY!!


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

UKRAINIAN TROOPS IN FULL CHAOTIC RETREAT

Douglas Ernst - The Washington Times - Wednesday, August 27, 2014 

*In Novoazovsk, a Ukrainian unit staring down tanks, artillery, and infantry personnel responded to shelling by sitting down*, The New York Times reported Wednesday.

“Anybody who refuses to fight, sit apart from the others,” a commander from the 9th Brigade from Vinnytsiaordered, The Times reported. Eleven men obliged.

“*Some troops were in a full, chaotic retreat*: A city-busload of them careened past on the highway headed west, purple curtains flapping through windows shot out by gunfire,” The Times said.

The newspaper said that the presence Russian troops in the northern border town of Novoazovsk constitutes a “third front” in the battle for control over eastern Ukraine.




Separatists gain ground

Kiev asks for Nato's help 

Afp, Starobesheve 

Rebels in east Ukraine yesterday appeared to have seized large swathes of territory from government forces who abandoned vehicles and ammunition as they retreated.

After weeks of successful military operations that have seen government forces push deep into the last rebel bastions, the tide appears to be turning once again in the four-month conflict, prompting a nervous government in Kiev to call on Nato for help.

AFP journalists saw no signs of government troops south of the rebel-held city of Donetsk, with road blocks on the entire 100-kilometre stretch to the Azov Sea manned by pro-Russian rebels.

A volunteer commander posted on Facebook that government forces were surrounded in the key transport hub of Ilovaysk and reinforcements were desperately needed.

Evidence of the deteriorating situation emerged just hours after the first meeting in three months between President Petro Poroshenko and Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin which failed to achieve any concrete breakthrough.

Meanwhile, Ukraine's Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk said it was time for Nato to act when the alliance holds a summit in Wales next week.

"We expect our Western partners and the alliance to provide practical help and take crucial decisions at the summit in September," he said.

Nato chief Anders Fogh Rasmussen said in an interview published yesterday that the alliance was preparing a rapid response unit specifically designed to deploy troops swiftly in eastern Europe.

Published: 12:00 am Thursday, August 28, 2014


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

deepelemblues said:


> Where are the mass graves with hundreds shot in the neck, then?
> 
> According to UN just over 2,000 people have died, about 700 of those are Kiev fighters. It's probably at least a thousand more total dead since no one knows how many separatist fighters have died.
> 
> ...


Since this conflict is of a way, way smaller scale, you can't really expect similar death tolls either. They might not have started as efficiently as Einsatzgruppen did or be as fatal at all, and I didn't claim that, but the elements behind both groups do look similar to me. But yes, there is no concrete proof and these are my own observations and thoughts.

Besides, the atrocities of the Einsatzgruppen have been somewhat exaggerated. The history is written by the victors.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The time has arrived to start kicking ass and taking names! 

The pieces of shit running the Kiev junta are sitting on the crapper relieving their bowels in fear. They are begging NATO for help, because they know if this keeps snowballing and Kiev eventually falls they will be put on trial like the Nazis were in Nuremburg.

The tide has turned!

*DEATH TO THE KIEV JUNTA! DEATH TO RIGHT SECTOR!*

*СМЕРТЬ КИЕВСКОЙ ХУНТЕ! СМЕРТЬ ПРАВОМУ СЕКТОРУ!*

- Mike

*PRESS CONFERENCE OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCING THE CREATION OF THE ARMED FORCES OF THE DONETSK REPUBLIC ON AUGUST 24, 2014*





Donetsk Militia Forces Take Nearly 90 Ukrainian Servicemen Captive in One Day

DONETSK, August 28 (RIA Novosti) - The militia of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic (DPR) said they had taken captive 65 Ukrainian border control forces near the village of Ulyanivske and 24 servicemen near Petrivske on Wednesday.

"In the district of Ulyanivske, 65 officers of the Ukrainian border guard from the surrounded group surrendered. In the course of the fighting with militia at the village of Petrivske, 24 servicemen of the 93rd Brigade stopped resistance and surrendered," DPR said on its internet portal.

The independence supporters also destroyed five Grad BM-21 artillery rocket systems near Novoannovka and attacked a Ukrainian military convoy by Starobesheve.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Over 60 Ukrainian troops cross into Russia seeking refuge

Published time: August 28, 2014 02:19

A group of 62 Ukrainian troops have crossed into Russia’s Rostov Region seeking shelter to save their lives amid an intensified counteroffensive recently launched by anti-Kiev militia in southeastern Ukraine.

“Today, 62 servicemen of the Ukrainian Armed Forces turned to Russian border guards asking to let them into the Russian territory near Russia’s settlement of Shramko, Matveyevo-Kurgansky district, with the aim to save their lives,” the spokesman for the FSB's border guard office in the Rostov Region, Nikolai Sinitsyn, told Itar-Tass news agency on Wednesday. 

They were allowed to cross and provided with a transit corridor on the principles of humanism, but only after they left their weapons on the Ukrainian side of the border, Sinitsyn added. 

This case became the latest in a series of similar incidents where a total of over 500 Ukrainian troops crossed into Russia since July seeking refuge and medical help.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Donetsk Militia Claims Strongholds Taken in Southeastern Ukraine's Mariupol

DONETSK, August 28 (RIA Novosti) – Donetsk militia forces claimed Thursday to have taken control of checkpoints and strongholds in the outskirts of Mariupol in southeastern Ukraine.

“Militia forces have taken control of block posts and strongholds on the edge of the city, as well [as taking control] of the bridge across the Gruzsky-Yelanchik River,” the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic’s (DPR) headquarters announced.

On August 24, the DPR began moving south to the Sea of Azov on the Russian-Ukrainian border.

On August 27, the DPR claimed they had moved tanks into Novoazovsk on the Sea of Azov.

On Wednesday, the DPR representatives said they had taken captive 65 Ukrainian border control forces near the village of Ulyanivske and 24 servicemen near Petrivske.


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## Café de René (Sep 27, 2011)

Probably a trivial presence in the conflict but these guys made the news in my country a few days ago.


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

NATO scum need to stop intefering in the affairs of others. Ceasing the bombing of muckshacks that can't defend themselves would be a start.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

roadkill_ said:


> NATO scum need to stop intefering in the affairs of others. Ceasing the bombing of muckshacks that can't defend themselves would be a start.


Why can't NATO scum participate in the conflict if Russian scum are doing the same. Even Putin admitted that there were Russian soldiers in Ukraine, only claiming that they were there 'by accident' :lmao


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

LET THE NATO SCUMBAGS COME GET SOME!

THEY WON'T, BECAUSE THEY ONLY INVADE AND BOMB THOSE NATIONS THAT CAN'T FIGHT BACK!!!


*А ЕСЛИ КТО С МЕЧОМ К НАМ ВОЙДЕТ, ОТ МЕЧА И ПОГИБНЕТ!
НА ТОМ СТОИТ И СТОЯТЬ БУДЕТ РУССКАЯ ЗЕМЛЯ!
*








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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

nevermind


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Russia has more or less official invaded and is doing a territory grab

They had a good thing going with the whole "plausible deniability" thing 

Not sure why you give it up

Bragging about how you ignoring the the rest of the first world tends to be a poor idea


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

The Manowarrior said:


> Why can't NATO scum participate in the conflict if Russian scum are doing the same. Even Putin admitted that there were Russian soldiers in Ukraine, only claiming that they were there 'by accident' :lmao


Because there are no Americans, British or most of the other members of NATO in Ukraine. Russia has a right to protect ethnic Russians in Russia's backyard in a conflict engineered by a NATO coup.

NATO shouldn't even exist. It was created to counter the USSR, which has been dissolved for 23 years.

If the USSR engineered a coup in Mexico in 1980, you'd better believe the USA would act in the interest of Americans inside Mexico.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

stevefox1200 said:


> Russia has more or less official invaded and is doing a territory grab
> 
> They had a good thing going with the whole "plausible deniability" thing
> 
> ...


Russia still denies sending troops into Ukraine. However, in my opinion, if everyone is going to blame Russia no matter what they do, they might as well swarm their army across the border and end this here and now.

At this point who cares what the United States thinks? It's an aggressor nation that started this whole thing by backing, if not engineering, the insurgency that overthrew the elected government in Kiev back in February of last year. They are the ones along with Right Sector pushing to keep hostilities going in the east and funding Ukraine's military. 

The EU isn't going to levy any more sanctions if their leaders have an ounce of brains left. Their economies are already hurting because they followed the orders of their "ally" in Washington to levy economic sanctions against Russia.

In the meantime, the Army of the Donetsk People's Republic has the National Guard on the run while the regular Ukrainian Army surrenders and flees across the border begging Russia to protect them.

To add to their troubles, the Kiev junta has to contend with mass rallies in Kiev calling for Poroshenko's resignation and the resignation of the high military command. Both the neo-Nazis who want to ratchet up the war and the anti-war people are both in the streets. We might even have another Maidan brewing!!!

*My question is, "Who is running Ukraine - Poroshenko, Right Sector, or Washington???"*

It's really a moot point, because thanks to the West it is inevitable that Ukraine disintegrates. It's just a matter of how fast that occurs.

- Mike








[/URL][/IMG]
_A man holds a placard " General Staff save Ukraine but not your asses!" during the rally in front of the Ukrainian Defence Ministery in Kiev on August 28, 2014.(AFP Photo / Sergei Supinsky)
_


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Let me put it this way 

The computer I am typing on has parts and tech made all over the world 

To say "FUCK IT WE DO WHAT WE WANT" is saying that I don't want any of those parts 

Sure I could make my own but I am giving up a huge chunk of my things which I will have to replace


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## Mr.Cricket (Feb 22, 2011)

No one will start a world war against Russia over poor irrelevant country like Ukraine. Russia can just walk in and take over the whole Ukraine if they want to.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Russia still denies sending troops into Ukraine.


No they don't. Here: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/26/russia-admits-soldiers-in-ukraine

They say that their troops were there 'by accident' :lmao

Russian foreign ministry admitted it as early as February, when they moved their troops into Crimea: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...mits-that-it-has-moved-troops-in-Ukraine.html

But you probably don't know that, because RT didn't report this.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Mr.Cricket said:


> No one will start a world war against Russia over poor irrelevant country like Ukraine. Russia can just walk in and take over the whole Ukraine if they want to.


They really can. But it will spark huge controversy, if Russia openly annexes whole Ukraine. NATO will get openly involved no doubt. Huge war will break out.The only reason Russia wouldn't do it, is if they aren't 100% confident that they will win the war. And if they take over Ukraine, they will have no problem taking the Baltic States, Georgia. And then Belarus, Kazakhstan and few others will join in and reform the Soviet Union. Ukraine may be poor, but sure not irrelevant. It is strategically important to Russia and the rest of Europe.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

stevefox1200 said:


> Let me put it this way
> Sure I could make my own but I am giving up a huge chunk of my things which I will have to replace


In this case it is worth the pain of having to replace that big chunk of things rather than having NATO bases sitting on your border!

- Mike


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> In this case it is worth the pain of having to replace that big chunk of things rather than having NATO bases sitting on your border!
> 
> - Mike


But would they rather have a Nato base near their border in Ukraine or a Nato base in Finland near St. Petersburg? Because the public support for Nato is, albeit slowly, constantly growing due to this crisis.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

*Canada mocks Russia on Twitter with helpful map and geography lesson offer*









*Geography can be tough. Here’s a guide for Russian soldiers who keep getting lost & ‘accidentally’ entering #Ukraine *

Canadian officials have risked upsetting Russia by offering their soldiers geography lessons.

The Great White North's delegation to Nato gently mocked Russia’s recent claims its troops had crossed the Ukraine border accidentally.

Canada’s government delegation at Nato, based in Brussels, posted a helpful map on their official Twitter account, which has been shared more than 10,000 times.

It helpfully includes Ukraine’s Crimea peninsula, controversially annexed by Moscow in March, in its ‘NOT RUSSIA’ section of the map.

Ten Russian paratroopers were captured in Ukraine on August 25, with Kremlin officials claiming they crossed the "poorly marked" border by “mistake”.

Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...h-helpful-map-and-geography-lesson-offer.html


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> But would they rather have a Nato base near their border in Ukraine or a Nato base in Finland near St. Petersburg? Because the public support for Nato is, albeit slowly, constantly growing due to this crisis.


If it came down to a choice I would much rather see a NATO base in Finland where people are relatively rational, rather than in Ukraine where irrational Western Ukrainian neo-Nazis rule with their ultra-nationalist agenda.

The actions of the Kiev junta from the beginnings of the Maidan insurgency up to the present day demonstrate a total lack of regard for human life and suffering, let alone the basic democratic values that the West supposedly supports.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_It would appear that the Kiev junta and their puppet masters in Washington start screaming "Russian invasion" every time the self-defense forces start beating the invaders. As more information comes in, the less credible the claims of a "Russian invasion" appear.

The nine or ten Russian soldiers that wandered across the border can hardly be considered an invasion force. And, none of the NATO high command wants to put their signature on the satellite reconsaissance photos that are being waved around as evidence.

Personally, I believe Russia is totally justified at this point to send in their army en masse and quickly wipe out the invading fascist forces of the Kiev junta. In fact, I wish that's what they would do.

However, based on what is coming out it looks like the Army of the Donetsk People's Republic did this on their own using the Suvorov tactic of retreat, consolidate, and then strike. Of course, this makes the Kiev junta look bad, so they have to invent a "Russian invasion" to justify their National Guard and regular Army getting their asses kicked.

- Mike_

Putin Calls on Ukraine's Militia to Open Humanitarian Corridor for Besieged Servicemen

MOSCOW, August 29 (RIA Novosti) — Russia’s President Vladimir Putin urged the militia in Ukraine to open a humanitarian corridor to allow besieged Ukrainian servicemen to leave battle ground, the Kremlin said in a statement Friday.

"I call on the militia forces to open a humanitarian corridor for Ukrainian servicemen that became encircled, in order to avoid pointless casualties, and to give them an opportunity to freely leave the area of military action, reunite with their families, to return them to mothers, wives and children, to provide medical help to the wounded as a result of the military operation," Putin said in the statement.



Moscow Ridicules NATO's Images of Alleged Russian Troops in Ukraine

MOSCOW, August 28 (RIA Novosti) - Moscow sees no sense in commenting on what NATO calls that it has satellite shots of Russian troops in Ukraine, Russia’s Defense Ministry spokesman Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov said Thursday.

*"You know, it has become ridiculous… If earlier, someone would at least put their names to those images, be it Breedlove, Rasmussen, or even Lungescu, now, they are hesitant," *Konashenkov said, referring to NATO Supreme Allied Commander Europe Philip Breedlove, Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen and Spokesperson Oana Lungescu.

"It makes no sense to seriously comment on this," he added.

*Washington failed to verify the information*, US Department of State spokesperson Jen Psaki said, adding, however, that the State Department had "no reason to doubt their [NATO's] assessment."

Andrei Kelin, Russia’s envoy to the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE), *denied Kiev’s accusations, saying that "there are no Russian convoys" in Ukraine*.



Only Russian volunteers fighting with anti-Kiev forces - Donetsk Republic leader

Published time: August 28, 2014 08:14 

About 3-4,000 Russian citizens joined anti-government fighters during Kiev crackdown in Ukraine’s east, says the leader of Donetsk independent republic, noting that self-defense fighters have never concealed this fact.

Zakharchenko said that *Kiev authorities and Western countries are repeatedly talking about a Russian ‘military invasion’ to justify the mass defeats of the Ukrainian army in the country’s east*. 

*Kiev is using the tactics of “scorched earth”* during its military campaign in the south-east of Ukraine, Aleksandr Zakharchenko told RIA Novosti. 

“They hit the densely populated areas; destroy, first of all, the facilities of water, electricity and gas supply, social infrastructure; they try to spread fear and panic. But they don’t succeed,” Zakharchenko said.

They don’t understand any other approach because *it doesn’t matter to them, whom to kill in the east*, Zakharchenk stressed. 

*“We’ve been gathering strength for a long time. We held on and prepared a return blow.* We’ve delivered it and we’ll continue an active struggle for the liberation of the Donetsk and Lugansk Regions from the occupants,” he added. 



Ukraine president blames military failure on deserting commanders

Published time: August 28, 2014 09:19 

Petro Poroshenko has blamed Kiev troops’ blunder in the battle for the town of Ilovaysk in the south-east on two deserted unit commanders. Kiev authorities have opened over 1,000 investigations into Ukrainian soldiers who deserted from the army.

The military failure caused a wave of rallies in Kiev and across the country as the *protesters blocked Kiev’s main street and demanded Poroshenko and the country’s top military commanders resign*.

On Wednesday, *the Ukrainian General Prosecutor’s office announced that 1,083 criminal proceeding of desertion had been launched *since the beginning of the ‘anti-terrorist’ operation. 

Kiev troops have been charged with “disobedience, unauthorized abandonment of a military unit or place of service, desertion, evasion of military service in another way, and so on.” 

There have been a number of cases in which Ukrainian soldiers left their military hardware and surrendered to anti-government forces.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Um, Batko, care to reply?



Batko10 said:


> Russia still denies sending troops into Ukraine.





The Manowarrior said:


> No they don't. Here: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/26/russia-admits-soldiers-in-ukraine
> 
> They say that their troops were there 'by accident' :lmao
> 
> ...


Or are you like Russian government. When caught lying simply ignore it?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Um, Batko, care to reply?
> Or are you like Russian government. When caught lying simply ignore it?


Normally, I wouldn't bother replying to your sarcastic crap. However, I'll make an exception this time.

Even if I was a liar like the Western media and governments, I have no reason to lie about a "Russian invasion." So, read my lips: 

*I WANT RUSSIA TO SEND A FULL ARMY INTO EASTERN UKRAINE TO WIPE OUT THE WESTERN UKRAINIAN MURDERERS. I BELIEVE A RUSSIAN INVASION IS LONG OVER DUE. IF I THOUGHT ONE WAS GOING ON I WOULD REPORT ON IT, NOT DENY IT!!! *

- Mike


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

The Manowarrior said:


> *Canada mocks Russia on Twitter with helpful map and geography lesson offer*
> 
> 
> [B]Geography can be tough. Here’s a guide for Russian soldiers who keep getting lost & ‘accidentally’ entering #Ukraine [/B]
> ...


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Valdimir Putin's appearance at the Seliger Youth Forum-2014 was in complete contrast to the begging, groveling, ass kissing Boris Yeltsin of the 1990s that Washington and Brussels yearn for.

The bully boys and hawks in D.C. are not sure what to do anymore since Russia has gotten off of its knees and has drawn a real "red line" that it is daring Obama to cross. With its plans for taking over Ukraine thwarted and Obama openly stating that there will be *NO* U.S. military action taken in Ukraine, it looks like a good bet that NATO's march east has been halted.

For those who don't like Putin and Russia, it would behoove you to read the bullet points below on what he said at the Youth Forum today. Alot of what he says you know in your heart is true even though you deny it.

- Mike









[/URL][/IMG]
I get an impression that whatever Americans touch they always end up with Libya or Iraq,” Putin told the participants of the 10th youth forum held on Lake Seliger in Tver region, some 370 km north of Moscow.

The United Nations will lose its purpose if it is only an “*instrument to serve foreign policy interests of only one country – in this case the US and its allies*,” Putin said. “Then it is not needed.”










[/URL][/IMG]
Putin compared the shelling of east Ukrainian towns and cities by Kiev army to actions by the Nazi forces during the World War Two. 

“Sad as it might seem, this reminds me of the events of World War II, *when the German Nazi troops surrounded our cities, like Leningrad, and directly shelled those cities and their residents,”* Putin said.

*"Ukrainians who did not support the coup mounted by “our western partners” with the backing of radical nationalists, are being suppressed by the military force*," Putin continued.

“We’re no fools. We saw symbolic cookies handed out [by Victoria Nuland] on the Maidan, information support, political support. What does that mean? *A full involvement of the US and European nations into the process of the power change: a violent unconstitutional power change*.” 

“And the part of the country that disagreed with that is being suppressed with the use of jets, artillery, multiple launch systems and tanks,” Putin said. *“If these are today’s European values – I’m gravely disappointed.*” 










[/URL][/IMG]
Putin said that Russia did not “annex” Crimea, as the peninsula’s reunion with Russia is often described by foreign media and politicians. 

“We didn’t not annex it, we didn’t take it away. We gave people an opportunity to have their say and make a decision, which we took with respect. We protected them, I believe.” 

“We had to protect our compatriots, who live there (in Crimea). *When we look at events in Donbass, Lugansk, Odessa, it becomes clear to us what would have happened to Crimea *if we had not taken measures to provide free expression of will to people.” 










[/URL][/IMG]
Russia is going to boost its military forces and nuclear deterrence potential, Putin told the youth forum. 

“*Russia is one of the most powerful nuclear states*. It’s not words, it is the reality,” he said. *“We are strengthening our nuclear deterrence forces, we are strengthening our armed forces…*We are beefing up our potential and will continue doing so.” 

This is being done “not to threaten anyone, “but to feel secure,” he added. 

“Our partners – whatever condition their countries are in and whatever foreign policy concept they adhere to – *should understand that it’s better not to mess with us,*” Putin said. “Thank God, *I believe it doesn’t occur to anyone to unleash a large-scale conflict with Russia.”*


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## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

World War III! Woohoo!!!!!!


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Threatening people with nukes is very 1962

We still live in the age of deterrence but the fact that people bring it up is embarrassing


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

*Main building of Shakhtar training base destroyed during shelling*

During the night, 29-30 August, STC Kirsha was severely damaged as a result of shelling. Two shells hit the top floor of the main building, where Shakhtar’s senior team lived and trained. A restroom and a gym are completely destroyed. 

There was big fire. Fire brigades were working during the whole night at STC Kirsha. The fire was contained, but some areas of the building are still burning, they are trying to extinguish them. Residential and utility areas suffered considerable damage.

Employees haven’t been hurt. 

FC Shakhtar
Press Office

http://shakhtar.com/en/news/32807

It's a shame when sports suffer due to stupid things like that.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*UKRAINIAN ECONOMY BEGINNING TO COLLAPSE AS KIEV JUNTA'S COST OF WAGING WAR AGAINST ITS OWN PEOPLE MOUNTS*





*FULL VIDEO OF PUTIN'S APPEARANCE AT YOUTH CONFERENCE*


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

THE MURDERING BASTARDS OF THE KIEV JUNTA WILL BE BROUGHT TO JUSTICE AFTER THEY ARE DEFEATED!

During their chaotic full retreat the *Kiev junta's forces have left behind documentation that incriminates them for the deliberate commission of atrocities and war crimes *that the West refuses to acknowldge. 

By the time this is over and Poroshenko, Yatseniuk, and the rest of the scum who are in charge today are standing in the dock, there will be overwhelming hard evidence of real war crimes- not nonsense about parading POWs down a street!
English subtitles






*"WE DIDN'T KNOW WE WERE KILLING CIVILIANS. WE WERE JUST FOLLOWING ORDERS."* 

Motherfuckers, we've heard this before 70 years ago. More and more evidence of the atrocities committed by the Kiev junta's forces is being observed and collected as the invaders are being driven out of Novorossiya. 

Personally, I'm going to really enjoy the war crimes trials after the Kiev junta's forces are completely defeated and these Nazi bastards are begging the court for mercy and saying, *"We were only following orders."*
English subtitles


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

FORWARD TO VICTORY, BROTHERS! 
DEATH TO THE KIEV JUNTA! DEATH TO RIGHT SECTOR! DEATH TO NATO!

ВПЕРЕД К ПОБЕДЕ, БРАТЬЯ! 
СМЕРТЬ КИЕВСКОЙ ХУНТЕ! СМЕРТЬ ПРАВОМУ СЕКТОРУ! СМЕРТЬ НАТО! 





The tide continues to turn against the fascist occupation forces of the neo-Nazi Kiev junta. *The Army of Novorossiya has just destroyed a Kiev junta naval cutter *by shelling it from the shore near Mariupol. Some reports say two fascist ships were taken out, but that is unconfirmed at this time.

The fascists continue to retreat. Their last major position in the south is in the city of Mariupol where they murdered innocent civilians who wanted to vote in the referendum on independence a couple of months ago. The Army of Novorossiya is preparing for the final storm and liberation of the city.

Bloody fighting is raging in Donetsk and Lugansk airports. It is unclear at the moment who is in charge of what. However, it appears the Donetsk airport is ready to fall to the Army of Novorossiya. The National Guard troops at Lugansk Airport will more than likely fight to the death. If captured they have atrocities to answer for and do not want to be taken alive.

- Mike

*KIEV JUNTA NAVAL CUTTER DESTROYED BY THE ARMY OF NOVOROSSIYA!*


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

FREEDOM OF SPEECH IN FASCIST UKRAINE

THIS IS THE "DEMOCRACY" WASHINGTON HAS INSTALLED IN UKRAINE 






The Ukrainian parliament speaker has told a female MP she must “get to her knees” after she criticized the “criminal” shelling of peaceful cities in the east. It was accompanied by accusations of “Russian propaganda” and switching off her microphone.

fter she’d asked for a moment of silence to honor the memory of those who have been killed in Donbass, Elena Bondarenko of the Regions Party gave a scathing review of her government, which “separates people into Ukrainians and non-Ukrainians.” 

However, as she delivered her speech, alleging the new Ukrainian government’s “criminal” behavior in “sending its army to bomb peaceful cities” and “depriving children of the right to education,” cries were heard from some of the louder opponents of the MP’s position. 

Then, former acting president and chairman of the Rada, Aleksandr Turchinov, asked for the microphone to be turned off, amid a stream of insults from Bondarenko’s opponents. 

Turchinov then joined the abuse. After stating that anti-government views were “Russian propaganda,” he proceeded to sternly tell her off in a defense of the Ukrainian army, “which protects all of us – even you,” he told her, before telling Bondaernko she would do well to “get down on your knees” in front of the military. 

Seconds later, cries of support and protest turned into a now-traditional Ukrainian Rada row, with curses and verbal abuse being exchanged among members. 

An outburst followed from the radical, Oleg Lyashko, who suggested that such views should be followed by immediate expulsion and the label of “traitor.” 

“Traitors must be shot on the frontlines,” he said, finishing his tirade with “Glory to Ukraine!”


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Death to NATO?

As in kill the armies and people of western Europe and North America?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

А ЕСЛИ КТО С МЕЧОМ К НАМ ВОЙДЕТ

ОТ МЕЧА И ПОГИБНЕТ!

НА ТОМ СТОИТ И БУДЕТ СТОЯТЬ

РУССКАЯ ЗЕМЛЯ!​
"And if someone comes to us with the sword he shall perish by the sword.
On this stands, and will stand, the RUSSIAN LAND!"


*Napoleon's Grande Armee learned this the hard way as did Hitler's Werhmacht. I guess now its NATO's turn*.

- Mike


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

A proper war with the US would be very troublesome as the US has bases in South Korea and Japan which would likely rain fire down and have to be dealt with 

This would require sending troops through China and North Korea or using powerful weapons very close to the border of said nations


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Kill Russians - bad. Kill Western people - good. Kill is automatically bad. Though some can accept killing of people that they don't like.










With that logic, it's impossible to have a proper discussion.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

On this thread many see killing as wrong unless it:

advances Washington's agenda in Ukraine, the Middle East, or anywhere else American "exceptionalism" decides it is appropriate to kill;

advances the Nazi ideology of the Western Ukrainians' Right Sector and Svoboda;

advances the genocide of the people of Novorossiya by the US puppet Kiev junta.

helps to justify the existence of the war machine of the West - NATO.








[/URL][/IMG]


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## Muerte al fascismo (Feb 3, 2008)

This reminds me of Yeltsin's incursions into Chechnya. While I doubt Nato will go all in over Ukraine, it's drawing its lines should Russia try to bring in any Nato members into their spheres. 

Considering the state of the Russian armed forces and the deterioration of its economy, annoying Nato isn't the brightest of plans.


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## ErickRowan_Fan (Feb 8, 2014)

I wonder when people will understand that they are being used as mere chess-pieces on a board for causes that do not serve their own best purposes. 

People should understand that all of the leaders anywhere are ultimately corrupt and evil and view you as less than human. To attain such a high position in the first place you must crush other human beings under your boot as if they were no more than ants. 

How many have been killed on orders of Putin and Obama? Carrying such "responsibilites" is not suitable for your average human being, they cannot behave that way, they cannot even comprehend that a human being can act that way. Common people have morals and obey laws, leaders view morals as mere obstacles and use laws in order to control their people.

The people on the other side of the border are not your enemies, the hand that gives the order for you to kill them and them to kill you is your enemy. It's a damn shame that I have to live in a (so far) neutral country between two vile propaganda machines plotting each others eventual destruction. I have no doubt that this poor little country will once again be sucked into the whirlpool of insanity along with the rest of Europe.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> On this thread many see killing as wrong unless it:
> 
> advances Washington's agenda in Ukraine, the Middle East, or anywhere else American "exceptionalism" decides it is appropriate to kill;
> 
> ...


You're criticizing Poroshenko for being a president of a country and a billionaire. Poroshenko's net worth is 1.3 billion dollars. Putin, whom you defend, has net worth of at least 40-70 billion dollars. If this isn't hypocrisy, I don't know what is.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

PIG POROSHENKO RUBS ELBOWS WITH NATO BIG SHOTS WHILE HIS PUNITIVE TROOPS RUN LIKE RABBITS AND SURRENDER LIKE THE COWARDLY, MURDERING SCUM THAT THEY ARE!!!










PIGGY BETTER GET HIS ASS BACK TO UKRAINE AND NEGOTIATE A CEASE FIRE. IT LOOKS AS IF THE "BATTLE OF MARIUPOL" IS STARTING. NOVOROSSIYA ARMY GRAD ROCKETS DESTROY A KIEV ARMORED PERSONNEL CARRIER CONVOY ON THE OUTSKIRTS OF MARIUPOL. THE LAST KIEV JUNTA OCCUPIED CITY IN NOVOROSSIYA IS ABOUT TO BE LIBERATED!


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

*Estonia intelligence officer abducted by gunpoint and taken to Russia*

An Estonian counter intelligence official has been abducted by gunpoint and taken to Russia, public broadcasting reports.

Estonian intelligence said the incident occurred at the Luhamaa border checkpoint at around 9am this morning. The unnamed official was understood to have been investigating a case of cross border crime.

It's been claimed smoke grenades and jamming of communication equipment was used in the altercation.

Estonia's Foreign Ministry say they have summoned Russian ambassador to Estonia Juri Merzljakov over the incident. Estonia's interior ministry also said they were following the issue closely, delfi.ee reports.

Estonia's interior minister, Hanno Pevkur speaking to Delfi.ee said: “We are working to get the officer back to Estonia. This kind of behavior is unacceptable,” said the minister.

Officials from the ISS (KaPo in Estonian) and the Office of the Prosecutor General held a press conference at 17:00.

Meanwhile, Arnold Sinisalu, director general of the ISS (KaPo), said that Estonian and Russian border guards had met to discuss the kidnapping, public broadcasting reports. 

Both sides visited the scene and established that there were indeed signs of a violent struggle with tracks leading to the Russian side, Sinisalu said. 

It's unknown whether the intelligence official was alone at the time of the incident, the head of Estonia's intelligence services said. The motive for the abduction is unknown at present.

A criminal case has been launched on counts of abduction and illegal border crossing.

Source: http://www.baltictimes.com/news/articles/35518/#.VAnZx8s2u9I

I wanted to see how Russia Today reported this, but of course they didn't :lmao

Also, Batko ignoring the fact that Putin is probably the richest person on Earth and blaming Poroshenko for being a billionaire when I pointed it out :lmao Run like a little cowardly rabbit, scum Mike, run, piggy.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

CAN PIG POROSHENKO ENFORCE THE CEASE FIRE? - ARMY OF NOVOROSSIYA REPORTS CONTINUED SHELLING OF GORLOVKA & MAKEYEV, HOUSE TO HOUSE FIGHTING IN DZERZHINSK

Well, we have a "cease fire," but it appears that the PIG and Kiev junta are not in complete control of their military forces. Troops loyal to the fascists in Kiev are continuing to shell Gorlovka and Makeyev hours after the ceasefire went into effect.
Reports from the front indicate there is still fighting in the streets of Dzerzhinsk.

Firstly, if the PIG is genuine about the "cease fire" agreement it would appear that he and his fellow American puppets in the Kiev junta don't have as much control over their military as everyone thinks. Nazi Western Ukrainians of Right Sector and Svoboda in National Guard units haven't pulled back and ceased fighting. The mercenary army hired by oligarch Kolomoisky is still on the loose and has not agreed to a cease fire.

Secondly, the phoney, hypocritic PIG blabbering, "the main thing is to save lives" is a joke. He is so full of it the whites of his eyes are turning brown. Humanitarian concerns are the least of his motives. His fascist killers were getting their asses kicked on all fronts. With Mariupol (the last major city controlled by the junta) surrounded and ready to be stormed the PIG had to do something to stop the momentum of the Novorossiya Army. 

My guess is that this cease fire is not going to hold very long. And, when full blown fighting erupts again the Western media will blame Russia, Novorossiya, and everyone else except the PIG, the punitive Nazi battalions that he can't control anymore, Kolomoisky's mercenary army, and the junta in Kiev.

- Mike


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

The Manowarrior said:


> I wanted to see how Russia Today reported this, but of course they didn't :lmao


Well, since this type of behavior is _typical to "the west"_, Russia can do it and it doesn't count. 

If it was a Belarusian officer abducted into Poland there would be 3 reports on RT and 16 posts on this thread.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Allur said:


> Well, since this type of behavior is _typical to "the west"_, Russia can do it and it doesn't count.
> 
> If it was a Belarusian officer abducted into Poland there would be 3 reports on RT and 16 posts on this thread.












Personally I never saw why we see pigs as "bad things". Almost all the "pig" characteristics are pretty exclusive abilities and they are some of the earlier domesticated animals. Man farmers relied on pigs as they were far easier to take care due their omnivore nature and fetched good money.

Pigs have even been discovered to understand the concept of a reflection 

In the 80s a study found that Pigs where the 5th most intelligent animals in the world 

Outside of Abrahamic religions pigs seem to be pretty popular 










I propose we start calling people we don't like Lampreys


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> Well, since this type of behavior is _typical to "the west"_, Russia can do it and it doesn't count.
> 
> If it was a Belarusian officer abducted into Poland there would be 3 reports on RT and 16 posts on this thread.


Actually, there was a report on RT regarding this incident. I didn't respond to the first post on this because of the poster's personal insults directed at me. 

In any case, it appears that this Estonian is in the service of the Estonian Interior Ministry and was apprehended with a loaded Taurus handgun, extra ammunition, and recording equipment *in the Pskov region of Russia *which is near the border of Estonia and Latvia.

The Estonians claim the Russians ran over the border, abducted this guy, and brought him back to Russia. That makes about as much sense as much of the other Western propaganda against Russia. However, everyone is free to accept whichever version they wish to believe.

- Mike

http://rt.com/news/185484-russia-estonia-spy-kohver/


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Mike too butthurt over me insulting him :maury When he insults me ON MULTIPLE OCCASIONS, it's OK. But when I insult him ONCE, he gets butthurt. I'm not saying that "it's typical Eastern hypocrisy", because I'm not so stupid to judge people by their location. That's just a dumb douchebag hypocrisy.


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## maggots2323 (Aug 29, 2014)

This isn't Rants, OP. Please refrain from baiting and resorting to personal insults. Thank you!


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## maggots2323 (Aug 29, 2014)

> Eastern Europe... 09-06-2014 07:55 AM The Manowarrior fuck off, ******


Seriously, son? fpalm


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

This isn't the chatbox, Maggots. Please refrain from double posting and posting personal rep messages. Thank you!


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

NOVOROSSIYA ANTHEM ACCOMPANIES AMERICAN MMA FIGHTER JEFF MONSON INTO THE RING AT "FIGHT STAR" 










Sept 5, 2014: At the international MMA tournament “Fight Star” in Mordovia, American athlete Jeff Monson entered the ring to the sounds of the Novorossiya Anthem. Monson explained his choice of musical accompaniment by saying that he sees the people of the Donbass and the Russia people as one people, and he wanted to show his support for Novorossiya. 

He said, “I chose it because the people in the Donbass want to be part of Russia, but politicians create a lot of problems and obstacles. *The peoples of the Ukraine and Russia are fraternal peoples. Donbass residents have the right to choose their own path, and they want to be with Russia. I’m in solidarity with them”.* 

Monson pointed up that he’d been in the Ukraine before the war started, and he said that he tells all his friends about the battles in the Donbass. Monson said, “*I love both Russia and the Ukraine, it’s difficult to believe this is happening”. *Oleg Mashin, one of the tournament organisers, told us that he showed him one of his many tattoos, “It shows a Red Army star with the words ‘freedom’ and ‘solidarity’. He said that he likes Russia. He knows about the events in the Ukraine, and he’s opposed to the war”.


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

"Finland wants to join Russia" (In Russian)

Russian Press ladies and gentlemen. In the original text Mr. Krogerus says that Finland should essentially be like Western Europe's port to Russia, he didn't say a word about joining it. fpalm Also, Mr Eerola's original comment was that Nato would be as useless as a military alliance with Russia. In no way did he imply that we should align ourselves with them.

And this is not even a one-off thing. It has been reported by other news stations like Pravda, too.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

maggots2323 said:


> This isn't Rants, OP. Please refrain from baiting and resorting to personal insults. Thank you!


The insults, hysterical tantrums, and red rep emanating from a few of the more overtly Russophobic list members is perfectly understandable. The U.S. backed fascist murderers of the Kiev junta are getting pummelled and pushed out of Novorossiya. The more ardent supporters of U.S. hegemony, NATO expansion, and the Kiev junta's coup have their "knickers in a twist" and can only howl at the moon.

In addition to open insults on the thread, I've received red rep with nasty commentary personally attacking me. However, this isn't upsetting in the least. On the contrary - their behavior demonstrates that we are winning and the Russophobes and American Hawks are pissed off and forced to resort to name calling and giving out red rep. 

I would suggest not to stoop to their level and ignore the insults and remarks. Just keep posting. 

- Mike

*"SELF-PROCLAIMED LUGANSK PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC, SEPTEMBER 5, 2014"*

*"WITHOUT COMMENTARY"*
*
"TWO HOURS BEFORE THE DECLARATION OF THE CEASE FIRE SELF-DEFENSE MILITIA DESTROY A UKRAINIAN BATTALION"
*


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> The insults, hysterical tantrums, and red rep emanating from a few of the more overtly Russophobic list members is perfectly understandable. The U.S. backed fascist murderers of the Kiev junta are getting pummelled and pushed out of Novorossiya. The more ardent supporters of U.S. hegemony, NATO expansion, and the Kiev junta's coup have their "knickers in a twist" and can only howl at the moon.
> 
> In addition to open insults on the thread, I've received red rep with nasty commentary personally attacking me. However, this isn't upsetting in the least. On the contrary - their behavior demonstrates that we are winning and the Russophobes and American Hawks are pissed off and forced to resort to name calling and giving out red rep.
> 
> ...


You insult me on multiple occasions = OK. I insult you once = I'm worse than Hitler. :lmao

Also, *I DID NOT*, I repeat, *I DID NOT* ever red rep you. But you're gonna lie your way just to get what you want. That isn't something unheard of from you.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> You insult me on multiple occasions = OK. I insult you once = I'm worse than Hitler. :lmao
> 
> Also, *I DID NOT*, I repeat, *I DID NOT* ever red rep you. But you're gonna lie your way just to get what you want. That isn't something unheard of from you.


I realize that it's early evening in Lithuania and I want you to get a decent night's sleep. So, I'll make an exception and briefly answer you by pointing out that I never said that it was you who red repped me. 

I understand that English is not your native language, but you really should read my posts more carefully and avoid making assumptions. I said that I received red rep along with a nasty comment. I never said who gave me the red rep. In fact, I never mentioned anyone's name anywhere in my post.

While we're at it, regarding your post and my lack of response to it which initially got you all bent out of shape, *I never mentioned a word about Poroshenko's wealth*. See my post and your response. You really do have to brush up on your English language comprehension! 

- Mike



Batko10 said:


> On this thread many see killing as wrong unless it:
> 
> advances Washington's agenda in Ukraine, the Middle East, or anywhere else American "exceptionalism" decides it is appropriate to kill;
> 
> ...





The Manowarrior said:


> You're criticizing Poroshenko for being a president of a country and a billionaire. Poroshenko's net worth is 1.3 billion dollars. Putin, whom you defend, has net worth of at least 40-70 billion dollars. If this isn't hypocrisy, I don't know what is.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> I realize that it's early evening in Lithuania and I want you to get a decent night's sleep. So, I'll make an exception and briefly answer you by pointing out that I never said that it was you who red repped me.
> 
> I understand that English is not your native language, but you really should read my posts more carefully and avoid making assumptions. I said that I received red rep along with a nasty comment. I never said who gave me the red rep. In fact, I never mentioned anyone's name anywhere in my post.
> 
> ...


If you search this thread, you'll find a few posts where you refer to him as 'billionaire Poroshenko'. Also, you didn't answer me why your inults to me are acceptable and mine to you aren't.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

THE UNKNOWN WAR 

*PARTISANS BATTLE KIEV JUNTA'S FORCES IN KHARKOV, ZAPOROZHIYA, DNEPROPETROVSK, AND OTHER EASTERN REGIONS OUTSIDE OF DONETSK AND LUGANSK*








[/URL][/IMG]

For three months in the junta’s rear, partisans in Zaporozhia, Dnepropetrovsk, Kherson, Kharkov, and Cherkassy Oblasts destroyed dozens of pieces of equipment and killed hundreds of National Guardsmen. 

A commander of a partisan unit codenamed “Makhno” {a famous Civil War anarchist partisan: editor} said, “No one ordered us to comply with the ceasefire, so, we don’t have to observe it”. 

The partisans told us that the junta is using the ceasefire to regroup their forces and prepare sneak attacks. They think that when the strategic initiative passed to the VSN, the Ukrainian side had to agree with whatever terms the patriot side laid down. As known, partisans operating in the junta’s rear target Ukrainian officials, ambush National Guardsmen, and harass regular junta forces.

7 September 2014

http://www.ukraina.ru/news/20140907/1010405218.html




KIEV JUNTA'S NAZIS DEFEATED & DRIVEN FROM LUGANSK AIRPORT

FASCIST NATIONAL GUARD KILLS ITS OWN PEOPLE RATHER THAN ALLOW THEM TO SURRENDER

300 POLISH & GEORGIAN MERCS CAPTURED


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THE WEST SUPPORTS - NEO-NAZI THUGS AND BULLIES: 





THEY MAY BE ABLE TO BULLY A YOUNG KID IN KHARKOV INTO KOW-TOWING TO THEIR THUGGERY, BUT IT DOESN'T WORK ON THE KHARKOV ADULTS:


Partisans Blow Up Power Transformer in Kharkov 

Partisans blew up a power transformer station near the main railway station in Kharkov to hinder delivery of junta reinforcements to the Donbass.

8 September 2014

Novorusinform

http://www.novorosinform.org/news/id/8213


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The U.S. puppet Kiev junta is comprised of the lowest pieces of shit imaginable. They created the "National Guard" specifically to go and fight against the independence movement in Donbass. Thousands of neo-Nazi Western Ukrainians from Right Sector and Svoboda joined and went to the front. They were (and are), in fact, the Kiev junta's main fighting force in the punitive military action to suppress the freedom fighters in the east.

Personally, I would piss on the graves of these fascist murderers. However, one would expect the Kiev junta, for whom they fought, to honor them in death. 

However, once again the puppets whom Washington put in charge of the Kiev junta have shown their true colors - the colors of a pack of jackals. IMHO this is another nail in their coffin. Disrespecting your main fighters and pissing off Right Sector and Svoboda is not the smartest move pig Poroshenko and the rest of the scum that run the junta could make.

- Mike 


Tuesday, 9 September 2014

Junta Refuses to Pay for Funerals of National Guardsmen Killed in the Donbass 

Kiev authorities announced that they wouldn’t pay for the funerals of National Guardsmen killed in military operations in southeast Ukraine. Thus, the family involved would have to pay the full cost of any funeral expenses. 

Dmitri Novitsky, head of the Department of Housing and Communal Infrastructure of the Kiev City State Administration, said, “At present, given that the government hasn’t laid down any guidelines, we can’t fund public funerals and burials of citizens killed in military operations by Kiev”. He went on to say that such services are only for members of the armed forces and war invalids. 

The mother of a National Guard member killed at Ilovaisk, flew into a rage, saying that the junta didn’t allocate money for protective gear, even though it promised to help the soldiers at the front. She said, “Go on, they said, ‘fight’! Now, they want us pensioners to pay the full cost of the funerals, like we’ve got money to burn!”

9 September 2014

LifeNews

http://lifenews.ru/news/140094

*NATONAL GUARD BUTCHERS AT WORK KILLING UKRAINIAN ARMY REGULARS WHO TRIED TO SURRENDER AFTER BEING SURROUNDED AND OUTGUNNED BY FREEDOM FIGHTERS IN LATE MAY
*


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Unfortunately, the views expressed below are buried in the Western media's sea of Russophobic journalism and are the equivalent of howling at the moon. - Mike

Barry D. Wood 
columnist, economics journalist

Ukraine: Dissenting Views

September 9, 2014

Back in February *Oxford's Timothy Garton Ash*, arguably the wisest interpreter of events in Eastern Europe, observed that the future of Putin, Russia and Europe was at stake in Ukraine.

In the months that have followed, Russia annexed Crimea, Ukraine elected a new president, fighting intensified in the southeast, and Russia intervened militarily to save from defeat the secessionists it sponsored and supported.

Throughout the crisis the standard view has been that Russia's Vladimir Putin is solely to blame for Ukraine's partial dissolution. U.S.-Russia relations -- already soured by the animus between their presidents -- have worsened. A new cold war seems to be underway.

But some specialists are breaking from the standard narrative. 

University of Chicago political scientist *John Mearsheimer* is among the most respected of the American dissenters. In a provocative article in the September/October Foreign Affairs, Mearsheimer invokes realpolitik, positing that* the west is to blame for Ukraine's agony by having brought NATO too near the gates of the Kremlin.
*
Dismissing the assertion that Russia is the aggressor, *Mearsheimer excoriates western leaders for failing to heed Moscow's warnings in 2008 that formerly Soviet Georgia and Ukraine occupied a vital security zone that Moscow would not allow to be breached*. Big powers, he says, have vital interests that must be respected.

Mersheimer writes, "*the tap root of the trouble is NATO enlargement*, the central element of a larger strategy to move Ukraine out of Russia's orbit and integrate it into the West." He continues, "*for Putin the illegal overthrow of Ukraine's democratically elected and pro-Russian president -- which he rightly labeled a "coup" -- was the final straw*. He responded by taking Crimea, a peninsula he feared would host a NATO naval base, and working to destabilize Ukraine until it abandoned its efforts to join the West."

To defuse the crisis Mearsheimer calls on President Obama to reverse course and *acknowledge that Ukraine will not become a NATO member, remaining instead a neutral buffer between Russia and Europe*.

Former Swedish diplomat Anders Aslund, the Russia specialist at Washington's Peterson Institute for International Economics, dismisses Mearsheimer's embrace of realpolitik, accusing the Chicago scholar of "denying countries their right to self-defense or to join NATO." Mearsheimer's article, he says, "shows contempt for democracy, national sovereignty, and international law."

But it's not only Mearsheimer asserting that Russia has legitimate security concerns on its western border. British historian *Robert Skidelsky *argues that in the post-cold war period *the West made a serious mistake by refusing to concede any form of regional hegemony to Russia*. 

"Rather," Skidelsky writes in Project Syndicate, "under the banner of democracy and human rights, the West actively sought to pry the ex-Soviet countries from Russia's orbit." These thrusts, he argues, "undoubtedly inspired Russian paranoia, reflected today in Kremlin-fuelled conspiracy theories about Ukraine."

Former adversaries Polish Nobel Prize winner *Lech Walesa *and *Mikhail Gorbachev*, critical players in the collapse of European communism whose 25th anniversary will be celebrated in November, similarly urge caution. Walesa warns of nuclear confrontation and counsels Europe to go slow on ratcheting up punitive Russian sanctions. 

Gorbachev says the mostly peaceful world order in place since the collapse of communism is at risk. He implores presidents Putin and Obama to put aside their differences and open high level talks to craft a Ukraine solution. 

Stephen Cohen, professor emeritus at New York University and Princeton University, says there are three possible outcomes to the Ukraine crisis: 1/escalating civil war that draws in Russian and possibly NATO forces. This worst outcome, he says, could resemble a latter-day Cuban missile crisis; 2/ de facto partitioning with western Ukraine allied with the west and its eastern regions with Russia; and 3/ the preservation of a unified decentralized Ukraine, unaffiliated with any military alliance, its territorial integrity guaranteed by the US, Russia and the European Union. 

*Mearsheimer says in 2008 Russia put its foot down on further NATO expansion but the west didn't acknowledge the depth of Russia's conviction*. At its Bucharest summit that year the defense alliance stopped just short of putting Ukraine and Georgia on track to membership. Months later Russia waged war against Georgia's pro-western government, a conflict whose timing he believes was not coincidental.

*George Kennan*, the eminent diplomat who in 1947 devised Washington's policy of containing Soviet expansion, opposed provoking post-communist Russia. In 1996 -- three years before NATO admitted Poland, the Czech Republic and Hungary -- *Kennan warned that NATO expansion into former Soviet territory was a "strategic blunder of potentially epic proportions."*

In retrospect it seems Kennan was wrong as far as the three Baltic states and central Europe is concerned. NATO membership has provided those countries with the security they so urgently sought in the aftermath of the Soviet collapse. For them Russia's intervention in Ukraine confirms their worst fears about Kremlin intentions.

But Ukraine is another matter. *Timothy Garton Ash *observes that not too many centuries ago the original Russians inhabited what is today's Ukraine, the place where the Russian Orthodox Church was founded. To uninitiated Americans and Europeans Russians and Ukrainians appear indistinguishable. Unlike the Baltics and central Europe, Ukraine was never independent before 1991. 

In calling for restraint and dialogue Skidelsky argues, "the goal of Western policy today should be to find the means to work with Russia to stop Ukraine from being torn apart."


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Now that the fighting has slowed down and allowed some investigation of what was perpetrated by the invading fascist punitive divisions of the Kiev junta's military war crimes are being discovered.

*Amnesty International *has accused the Kiev junta's Aidar Battalion of blatant war crimes against the civilian population of Novorossiya. Interestingly, immediately following the report the Ukraine's Supreme "Rada" (literally "council" in English) or Parliament began introducing legislation to pardon all war crimes by troops fighting for Kiev in the east.

- Mike

Crimes of Ukrainian Aidar battalion confirmed in Amnesty Int’l report 

Published time: September 10, 2014 10:50 

*An Amnesty International report has confirmed that war crimes including abductions, executions and extortion were committed by the Ukrainian Aidar battalion in Lugansk region, eastern Ukraine,* an official from Russia’s Foreign Ministry says.

“The report confirms large-scale crimes, including war [crimes] made routinely and under the aegis of Ukrainian law enforcement agencies, by the leaders and members of the Aidar battalion,” said Konstantin Dolgov, the Foreign Ministry’s commissioner for human rights. 

“*Amnesty International points only to some of these [crimes] – abductions, unlawful detention, ill-treatment, theft, extortion, including demanding ransom for abducted Ukrainians, and simple robbery from the civilian population,*” Dolgov said. 

He added that Russian authorities have repeatedly called on international organizations , including Amnesty International, to pay more attention to large-scale human rights violations during Kiev’s so-called “anti-terrorist operation” in eastern Ukraine. 

“We hope that the report on Aidar’s [battalion] crimes will attract more attempts in these sphere because the atrocities of Aidar members is only a part of sinister crimes committed by the punishers,” he said, “All these crimes, including the [May 2] bloodshed in Odessa should be objectively investigated under effective international control and the culprits should be brought to justice.” 

To read the full article click on the following link:
http://rt.com/news/186576-ukraine-battalion-war-crimes/


War crimes acceptable? Parliament mulls amnesty for Kiev's troops in E. Ukraine

Published time: September 10, 2014 17:13 

The Ukrainian parliament is to debate a law on amnesty for Ukrainian troops who have committed war crimes in the course of military actions in Eastern Ukraine. Earlier, an Amnesty International report confirmed the facts of large-scale crimes.

*A bill on amnesty for military personnel who committed war crimes during the military crackdown in Eastern Ukraine was introduced in the Rada (the Ukrainian parliament) on Wednesday,* its website says. The bill assumes the discharge of legal responsibility and punishment of military staff and “other people” for the actions which “bear the marks of war crime.” 

Earlier, on 8 September, Amnesty International presented a report in which confirmed that such actions were committed by the Aidar volunteer battalion. 

Aidar is one of over 30 volunteer battalions which appeared after Kiev started the military operation in the Donetsk and Lugansk regions. It is loosely connected with the Ukrainian security structures. 

“Members of the Aidar territorial defense battalion, operating in the north Luhansk [Lugansk] region, have been involved in widespread abuses, including abductions, unlawful detention, ill-treatment, theft, extortion, and possible executions,” the AI report says. 

*The Amnesty International researchers interviewed dozens of victims and witnesses of the abuses and crimes, as well as local officials, police and army commanders in Lugansk area*. 

The watchdog pointed out that while formally operating under the command of the Ukrainian security forces combined headquarters in the region, *members of the Aidar battalion act “with virtually no oversight or control, and local police are either unwilling or unable to address the abuses*.” 

“*Some of the abuses committed by members of the Aidar battalion amount to war crimes, for which both the perpetrators and, possibly, the commanders would bear responsibility under national and international law*.” 

The report concluded that while hailed by many nationally as a committed fighting force, *“the Aidar battalion has acquired locally a reputation for brutal reprisals, robbery, beatings and extortion*.” 

Crimes of Ukrainian Aidar battalion confirmed in Amnesty Int’l report - Russia 

On Wednesday, the Ukrainian Prosecutor General’s Office said that they had started an investigation into the crimes of volunteer battalions in Eastern Ukraine. 

“We have the facts and criminal proceedings where the representatives of volunteer battalions committed crimes against the local population,” Prosecutor General Vitaly Yarema said, RIA Novosti news agency reported. 

http://rt.com/news/186780-war-crimes-ukraine-amnesty/


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

It continues to baffle me how fucking stupid the leaders of the EU are. At the urging of Washington they have just adopted more sanctions against Russia just as the guns have quieted in Novorossiya.

Uncle Sam is sitting back and enjoying the show while it will be Europeans who bear the brunt of the consequences of their own sanctions against Russia, as well as the counter-sanctions Moscow will levy against them. Yep, listen to the dicks in D.C. and poke the bear some more! Real smart!!

*It would seem that neither Washington, nor Brussels really wants peace in Ukraine. Confrontation and an excuse to continue NATO buildup appear to be the real goals here*.

Meanwhile, the Kiev junta continues its nefarious machinations - closing down independent Ukrainian newspapers who don't tow the fascist party line, banning political parties who dissent against the punitive military actions in the east, shutting down 15 Russian language TV stations despite the fact that over 35% of the population speaks Russian as their native language, actively persecuting the Russian Orthodox Church, submitting legislation to grant amnesty to Right Sector/Svoboda killers in the National Guard for war crimes that are being uncovered by European Agencies, etc., etc.

- Mike










EU Moves Against Peace Process in Ukraine with New Russian Sanctions: Moscow

MOSCOW, September 11 (RIA Novosti) - *The European Union has chosen against the peace process in Ukraine by approving new sanctions against Russia*, the Russian Foreign Ministry said Thursday.

"*By taking this step, the European Union has practically made its choice against the peaceful settlement of the internal crisis in Ukraine *whose support is expected from all responsible forces in Europe," the ministry said in a statement.

"Brussels and leaders of EU member-countries must explain clearly to EU citizens why they are putting them at risk of confrontation, economic stagnation and job losses," the statement said.

On Thursday, the European Council officially unveiled additional sanctions against Russia adopted by the 28-member European Union earlier this week.

According to an EC statement, the strengthened sanctions will affect Russia's energy, finance and defense sectors, as well as 24 individuals allegedly "involved in actions against Ukraine's territorial integrity," including several Russian decision-makers and oligarchs.

Earlier today, Russia's Ambassador to EU Vladimir Chizhov said that *by imposing new restrictive measures on Russia the European Union ignores the de-escalation of the situation in Ukraine and forces Russia to take certain counter-measures*


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Ukrainian Soldiers Filmed Wearing SS Insignia Deny Neo-Nazi Links

By IBTimes UK
on September 14 2014 3:34 AM 

Ukrainian volunteer soldiers have been broadcast on German television wearing helmets with Nazi symbols.

The soldiers, reportedly from the Azov battalion, were shown on German public broadcaster ZDF wearing uniforms decorated with Nazi motifs, *including swastikas and lightning bolt-like runic symbols of the SS,* a World War II Nazi paramilitary organisation.

The footage was captured by a camera team from Norway's TV2. Oystein Bogen, a foreign affairs correspondent at TV2 told NBC: "We were filming a report about Ukraine's Azov battalion in the eastern city of Urzuf when we came across these soldiers."

A spokesperson for the Azov battalion denied that the force has any fascist tendencies. "We are just Ukrainian nationalists," he said.

The Azov battalion is one of the more prominent volunteer units fighting pro-Russian separatists in the east of Ukraine, and *was established by the Social-National Assembly, an alliance of far-right and nationalist parties*.

*Neo-nazi accusations*

Azov battalion fighters have faced repeated accusations of being neo-Nazis. The force uses the neo-Nazi Wolfsangel (Wolf's Hook) symbol on their banner, and members of the battalion have openly espoused white supremacists and anti-Semitic views.

One battalion fighter named "Phantom", a 23-year-old former lawyer, told The Telegraph last month: "*Personally, I'm a Nazi.* I don't hate any other nationalities, but I believe each nation should have its own country. We have one idea: to liberate our land from terrorists."

The battalion's commander Andriy Biletsky, a former history student and amateur boxer, also commented: "*The historic mission of our nation in this critical moment is to lead the white races of the world in a final crusade for their survival. A crusade against the Semite-led untermenschen [sub-humans].*"

Ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine have cited Kiev's Nazism as a reason to fight to break away from Ukraine.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

RIGHT SECTOR & SVOBODA NEO-NAZIS RALLY AS UKRAINIAN JUNTA'S PARLIAMENT BANS PARTY OF REGIONS

Supported by the democratic, freedom loving West, the Kiev junta first banned the *Communist Party* about a month ago, and today followed up by defacto banning the *Party of Regions*. While they didn't outright ban the Party of Regions, anyone who served in Yanukovich's government and Party has been banned from politics. The result is the same.

Meanwhile, thousands of Right Sector and Svoboda neo-Nazis burned tires and demonstrated outside the Rada building while the deliberations were going on. They were demanding the purge of the government, i.e. the purge of any anti-fascist elements in the government apparatus.

The Donetsk People's Republic and Lugansk People's Republic would be insane to agree to any form of reunification with this government of criminals and Nazis. No matter what they say or what legislation they pass, it would be suicide to voluntarily go back into Ukraine under this fucked up government.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

[/URL][/IMG]
"_THEY NUKED US WITH A BOMB THIS BIG!"_

The cretins who were installed by Washington to run the Kiev junta continue to provide comic relief to an otherwise tragic situation.

The latest moronic comments to get a chuckle from even the West were made by Col. Gen. Valery Geletey, the buffoon presently occupying the position of Defense Minister of Ukraine. Apparently, in a desperate attempt to justify the Kiev junta's continuing military failure Geletey claimed Russia was using tactical nuclear weapons against Ukrainian occupation forces in the east. 

_RT, SEPT. 21: "A reported claim by Ukraine’s Defense minister that Russia used tactical nuclear weapons against his troops sparked sarcastic comments from Moscow and criticism from the rival Ukrainian Interior Ministry.

The allegations, by Col. Gen. Valery Geletey, were first reported by Roman Bochkala, one of the Ukrainian journalists accompanying the minister in his recent trip to Poland. 

“So Russia did use tactical nuclear weapons against Ukrainian troops,” the journalist wrote on his Facebook page, citing Geletey’s words. 

The nuclear weapons in question are rounds for 2S4 Tyulpan self-propelled mortars. The journalist reported the minister as saying that Russia supplied some of those to rebel forces and used at least two 3-kiloton nuclear rounds in the battle for Lugansk airport..."

"...If the minister did say all that, the Russians joked, then “the Ukrainian security service should investigate what the Polish friends slipped into Geletey’s glass.

Speaking seriously, Geletey’s habit of justifying the failures of the punitive operation in southeastern Ukraine with the alleged actions of the Russian armed forces start to resemble paranoia,” the Russian ministry added..."_
http://rt.com/news/189420-ukraine-nuclear-strike-russia/











_KIEV JUNTA BREAKS TRUCE, SHELLS MUNITIONS PLANT IN DONETSK_ 

Meanwhile, the Kiev junta keeps breaking the truce and supposed "cease fire" agreement signed in Minsk by Ukraine, Donetsk People's Republic, and Lugansk People's Republic.

_"KIEV, September 21 (RIA Novosti) - Ukrainian Special Forces continue shelling against Donbas independence supporters, but "only to neutralize" the militia's firing points, the press office of the so-called "anti-terrorist operation" wrote in a statement.

"ATO forces adhere to the ceasefire regime, causing destruction to the enemy only to neutralize their firing points," the statement said Saturday.

According to the press office, Ukrainian forces have fired against the militia's sites in a number of villages in the Donetsk Region..."_
http://en.ria.ru/world/20140921/193...s-Continue-Attacks-in-Donbas-but-Only-to.html

_"DONETSK, September 20 (RIA Novosti) - The Ukrainian military have carried out an attack on a military plant in Donetsk, where explosives are blowing up.

At the moment, there is smoke over the 107th military factory and explosions still could be heard. The locals said that there were ammunition supplies stored in the factory, which are currently exploding..."_
http://en.ria.ru/world/20140920/193118955/Ukrainian-Army-Attacks-Military-Plant-in-Donetsk.html











_MEANWHILE, RUSSIA SENT OVER 200 TRAILER TRUCKS IN ITS 3RD HUMANITARIAN AID CONVOY TO THE DPR AND LPR_

While the Kiev junta continued its aggression despite the truce, Russia sent its third humanitarian aid convoy to Novorossiya. This one consisted of 200 trailer trucks delivering food and supplies to the people suffering because of the Kiev junta's invasion and punitive military action.

The third convoy of Russian humanitarian aid for eastern Ukraine has arrived in the war-torn city of Donetsk. Earlier, Kiev and self-defense forces signed a memorandum aimed at effectively halting all fighting in eastern Ukraine after talks in Minsk.

"_RT, SEPT. 20: The convoy of around 200 vehicles is carrying some 2,000 tons of cereals, canned food, generators, medicine, warm clothes, and bottled water. 

Russian authorities said they had offered to allow the Ukrainian border guards to check the vehicles on the border on several occasions, but the guards declined without citing any particular reason. 

The trucks have started unloading the aid in two of the city’s storehouses.._." 
http://rt.com/news/189224-ukraine-humanitarian-convoy-donetsk/


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

[/URL][/IMG]

TROOPS OF DONETSK PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC LIBERATE ZHDANOVKA 

_In the evening of 20 September, DPR troops entered Zhdanovka, with locals greeting their liberators with glee. *They tore down the hated Ukrainian flag from the Gorsoviet building*. One of the locals asked Yenakievsk commandant Igor Korovyakovsky, “Can we go out at night, now?” 

People gathered in the courtyard of a central city church told our soldiers, “May the Lord preserve you!” They were getting water from a well, as the junta authorities didn’t bother to repair the water system when they occupied the town.

21 September 2014

Government and Supreme Soviet of the DNR

Official Website

_http://dnr.today/news/specialisty-d...ajone-goroda-donecka-na-mikrorajone-zastanci/









[/URL][/IMG]

_"RT, SEPT 22: Moscow is bewildered by Washington’s warmongering rhetoric, which accompanied President Petro Poroshenko’s visit to the US. Russia has also noted all the Russia-unfriendly opinions voiced recently by hawkish American politicians.

“We’ll keep in mind all signals, including those unfriendly towards Russia, that were heard during the visit of the Ukrainian president to Washington,” commented Russia’s Deputy Foreign Minister Sergey Ryabkov. “We do regret that there are quite influential circles [within the American establishment] that are unambiguously working against the emerging stabilization [in Ukraine],” Ryabkov said. 

In short, US senators urged to supply Ukraine with arms to fight against Russia and President Putin..."
http://rt.com/news/189512-poroshenko-us-weapons-army/ 
_


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## Ruth (Apr 18, 2010)

Batko10 said:


> THE UNKNOWN WAR
> 
> *PARTISANS BATTLE KIEV JUNTA'S FORCES IN KHARKOV, ZAPOROZHIYA, DNEPROPETROVSK, AND OTHER EASTERN REGIONS OUTSIDE OF DONETSK AND LUGANSK*
> 
> ...





Batko10 said:


> THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THE WEST SUPPORTS - NEO-NAZI THUGS AND BULLIES:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Batko10 said:


> The U.S. puppet Kiev junta is comprised of the lowest pieces of shit imaginable. They created the "National Guard" specifically to go and fight against the independence movement in Donbass. Thousands of neo-Nazi Western Ukrainians from Right Sector and Svoboda joined and went to the front. They were (and are), in fact, the Kiev junta's main fighting force in the punitive military action to suppress the freedom fighters in the east.
> 
> Personally, I would piss on the graves of these fascist murderers. However, one would expect the Kiev junta, for whom they fought, to honor them in death.
> 
> ...





Batko10 said:


> Unfortunately, the views expressed below are buried in the Western media's sea of Russophobic journalism and are the equivalent of howling at the moon. - Mike
> 
> Barry D. Wood
> columnist, economics journalist
> ...





Batko10 said:


> Now that the fighting has slowed down and allowed some investigation of what was perpetrated by the invading fascist punitive divisions of the Kiev junta's military war crimes are being discovered.
> 
> *Amnesty International *has accused the Kiev junta's Aidar Battalion of blatant war crimes against the civilian population of Novorossiya. Interestingly, immediately following the report the Ukraine's Supreme "Rada" (literally "council" in English) or Parliament began introducing legislation to pardon all war crimes by troops fighting for Kiev in the east.
> 
> ...





Batko10 said:


> It continues to baffle me how fucking stupid the leaders of the EU are. At the urging of Washington they have just adopted more sanctions against Russia just as the guns have quieted in Novorossiya.
> 
> Uncle Sam is sitting back and enjoying the show while it will be Europeans who bear the brunt of the consequences of their own sanctions against Russia, as well as the counter-sanctions Moscow will levy against them. Yep, listen to the dicks in D.C. and poke the bear some more! Real smart!!
> 
> ...





Batko10 said:


> Ukrainian Soldiers Filmed Wearing SS Insignia Deny Neo-Nazi Links
> 
> By IBTimes UK
> on September 14 2014 3:34 AM
> ...





Batko10 said:


> RIGHT SECTOR & SVOBODA NEO-NAZIS RALLY AS UKRAINIAN JUNTA'S PARLIAMENT BANS PARTY OF REGIONS
> 
> Supported by the democratic, freedom loving West, the Kiev junta first banned the *Communist Party* about a month ago, and today followed up by defacto banning the *Party of Regions*. While they didn't outright ban the Party of Regions, anyone who served in Yanukovich's government and Party has been banned from politics. The result is the same.
> 
> ...





Batko10 said:


> [/URL][/IMG]
> "_THEY NUKED US WITH A BOMB THIS BIG!"_
> 
> The cretins who were installed by Washington to run the Kiev junta continue to provide comic relief to an otherwise tragic situation.
> ...





Batko10 said:


> [/URL][/IMG]
> 
> TROOPS OF DONETSK PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC LIBERATE ZHDANOVKA
> 
> ...


yea but how mad are you tho for real


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## Kiz (Dec 2, 2006)

it's almost like no one cares or something like that


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Kiz said:


> it's almost like no one cares or something like that


Well, when you've got a thread full posts of one person's fascist views (not even their posts, just reposts from news sites), no wonder. Also, people may have other sources of information and other platforms for discussion because of the aforementioned person polluting this thread.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

A Kive Juanita Nazi fighter tried to invade my house today 

I was nice and just let him take the ladder he was trying to liberate

He even brought it back when he was done


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## Lil Mark (Jan 14, 2014)

WhiskeyBear thinks humans should stop killing animals and other humans. It must be over the Russian Vodka. Russia kicks ass I have a lot of friends who wrestle in Russia. They are also bears.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

WASHINGTON'S PUPPET, MAD MIKE SAAKASHVILI, IN HIDING IN U.S. WHILE GEORGIA OPENS CRIMINAL CASE AGAINST HIM









_US lickspittle, former president of Georgia - M. Saakashvili_

Mikhail Saakashvili, former president of Georgia and lackey/puppet of Washington, is presently hiding out in the United States under the protection of his masters. Meanwhile, the government of Georgia is proceeding with the prosecution of the American lickspittle who invaded South Ossetia causing the deaths of hundreds of civilians and U.N. assigned peacekeepers before ... sia could react and drive the American supplied tanks out.

Psycho Saakashvili has been charged under Article 333 of the Criminal Code of Georgia on the abuse of power, the use of violence or a weapon, and the breach of the dignity of a victim. Mad Mike has also been indicted for corruption and embezzlement by the Georgian prosecutor. His assets have been frozen and it looks like he is totally dependent on his former employer - the U.S. government!

The American supplied Georgian tanks rolled into South Ossetia back in August of 2008 while the Western news media totally blacked out information that Saakashvili was invading the country. When Moscow sent in troops to drive out the Saakashvili invasion force asshole Senator John McCain took the forefront of the U.S. propaganda effort with his rants, "Today we are all Georgians!"

Six years later only the U.S. government and the gullible believers in American exceptionalism still would say, "Today we are all Georgians" in support of Saaskashvili's U.S. sponsored aggression. The invader sits in hiding in the United States while the Georgian prosecutor's office petitions to have him put on the international wanted list. 

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

[/URL][/IMG]

The Kiev junta is a scumbag gang of neo-Nazis, opportunists, and lickspittles who get on their knees and shine the shoes of their masters in Washington. They persecute minorities, forcibly disband political parties, and conduct punitive military actions against peaceful people.

One of the things they also do is CENSOR their opposition and try to prevent others from expressing their views in writing by banning certain thought and words that express that thought. The people who support them also exhibit these traits.

- Mike

Words can be banned, but not thought!








[/URL][/IMG]


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## Kiz (Dec 2, 2006)

:lmao ...sia isn't banned you moron

r u s s o is. see, r u s in that is banned, it's why sia comes up

:lmao bloody hell


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

[/URL][/IMG]

With "Mad Mike" Saakashvili hiding out in the U.S. from his own people and the Georgian prosecutor trying to nail him, there is probably going to be a alot more rot written in the U.S. media on the 2008 South Ossetian War to go along with the trash they put out back then. 

Saakashvili started the war with a sneak attack on the sleeping civilians and a handful of U.N. peacekeepers in Tskhinval. The invasion was undertaken with the full knowledge and approval of Mad Mike's puppet masters in Washington. Captured documents at the American base in Gori testify to that, yet the liars in Washington continue to deny the truth. 

The RF forces arrived quickly and destroyed 40 American supplied tanks in the Tskhinval area as they drove Saakashvili's army out of South Ossetia. Mad Mike was in a rage as his soldiers deserted and the RF Army marched toward the Georgian capital of Tbilisi. The road to the capital was wide open, but the RF Army stopped before reaching Tbilisi and, eventually, pulled back to the South Ossetian border. There was no need to employ the "win everything at all costs" mentality of the demented, greed crazed emipire builders in Washington. Georgians are also Eastern Orthodox and the people shouldn't have to pay for Mad Mike's sins.

The RF won in South Ossetia and Washington is still crying about it. Pretty soon they will be crying over losing Ukraine because of their empire building which once again backed pure, unmitigated evil in the form of the leaders they installed in the Kiev junta.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Kiz said:


> :lmao ...sia isn't banned you moron
> 
> r u s s o is. see, r u s in that is banned, it's why sia comes up
> 
> :lmao bloody hell


:lmao Paranoid fascists are the most hilarious ones.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

I like how Saakashvili nickname changes with every post 

The crimes that he is being charged with in Georgia are for using excessive force when putting down riots against him in 2007 where he over armed the police and treated the situation more like a military battle than a riot 

Strangely all the reports I read said that South Ossetian (which is not even a nation to most of the world) extremists constantly attack other non ...sian friendly nations and cry to ...sia when countered

In this case the person decided that blind indiscriminate shelling was a good counter to blind indiscriminate shelling

Its not


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

AS THE KIEV JUNTA'S FASCISTS RETREAT EVIDENCE OF ATROCITIES IS DISCOVERED AND CONFIRMED BY OSCE OBSERVERS

Atrocities of the Kiev junta's butcher battalions are being discovered as Novorossiya's troops take back territory that had been occupied by the Washington backed fascists.

Novorossiya forces retook Kommunar yesterday from the Kiev junta's fascist punitive battalions. *OSCE observers confirmed *the discovery of a number of bodies bound, gagged, and shot execution style, as well as a decapitated woman.

During the Great Patriotic War the Red Army found more and more evidence of Nazi atrocities against Soviet citizens as it pushed back the Werhmacht. The same scenario appears to be emerging in Novorossiya, albeit on a smaller scale.

- Mike

http://en.ria.ru/world/20140924/193...raine-Mass-Graves-Site-Reveals-Civilians.html

http://rt.com/news/190228-mass-burial-discovered-ukraine/


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

DEMOCRACY KIEV JUNTA STYLE - 
POLICE, RIGHT SECTOR THUGS BLOCK PEACE MARCHES IN KHARKOV, ZAPOROZHIA,AND ODESSA

*This is what the hypocrites in Washington and Brussels support - freedom of speech in Ukraine as long as it supports the Kiev junta's party line.*

1,500 unarmed civilians in Zaporozhia and 1,500 in Odessa were blocked by the Kiev junta's Security Services and Right Sector thugs from marching today against the war in Donbass. A march in Kharkov by unarmed civilians protesting the war was forcibly dispersed by police, soldiers, and Right Sector neo-Nazis. At least two dozen demonstrators were arrested by the fascists.

In Kiev 3,000 people braved possible attack by government thugs and marched for peace, as did 1,200 in Dnepropetrovsk. The fact that many handicapped people and veterans were in the crowd in Kiev may have been a factor in the junta not attacking the unarmed crowd. *It would have been bad publicity if videos of paraplegics being beaten by Right Sector and Svoboda neo-Nazis got on the internet*. 

- Mike


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## SinisterHydraCP (Sep 27, 2014)

^ what a pathetic propaganda infested mind...


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

SinisterHydraCP said:


> ^ what a pathetic propaganda infested mind...


Oh, I see. What's captured on video didn't really happen. It's all a product of my "propaganda infested mind." I understand now. :|

*KIEV JUNTA'S FASCIST POLICE ARREST DEMONSTRATORS IN KHARKOV*











*POLICE IGNORE ATTACK BY RIGHT SECTOR ON PEACEFUL DEMONSTRATORS, THEN MAKE A SHOW OF CLEARING THE SQUARE AFTER THE DEMONSTRATION IS ALREADY BROKEN UP*


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## SinisterHydraCP (Sep 27, 2014)

You're from Russia, right? I'm not surprised that their propaganda works so well, I mean they have so much experience from Soviet times.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

SinisterHydraCP said:


> You're from Russia, right? I'm not surprised that their propaganda works so well, I mean they have so much experience from Soviet times.


No, I'm from Brooklyn, New York - born and raised in the East New York section of Brooklyn. I live in Minnesota now. 

In fact, despite the popular belief, Soviet propaganda was *NOT* very good. The American propaganda machine is the absolute best in history. It's starting to break down somewhat now since you can only do so much white washing of Washington's wars, bombings, and regime changes. People are starting to wise up as to who is doing what.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> No, I'm from Brooklyn, New York - born and raised in the East New York section of Brooklyn. I live in Minnesota now.
> 
> In fact, despite the popular belief, Soviet propaganda was *NOT* very good. The American propaganda machine is the absolute best in history. It's starting to break down somewhat now since you can only do so much white washing of Washington's wars, bombings, and regime changes. People are starting to wise up as to who is doing what.
> 
> - Mike


And how about your both parents and whole family being from Belarus? Did you just accidentally forget to say that?


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## SinisterHydraCP (Sep 27, 2014)

This guy is so delusional. Sure shit on the country that has given you an opportunity to live without fear of being arrested for speaking your mind and that is not ruled by a dictator who doesn't care about it's people. Oh wait, you're actually going to claim that what Russia is doing with Ukraine is for the people and not because there are a lot of military complexes in Ukraine that could really help them out when they decide to attack a NATO country. I live in Lithuania and my grandfather's family was deported to Siberia (not before they killed his two brothers) just because they had more land than an average person by the same people who Putin admires. Anyway once Russia send their little green men to the Baltic countries claiming that they're being mistreated (even though they don't have to learn our language to get a job) I won't be able to make comments like these so just let me enjoy this before the freedom of speech is taken away from me.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> And how about your both parents and whole family being from Belarus? Did you just accidentally forget to say that?


The guy asked me where *I* was from. I told him. 

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> The guy asked me where *I* was from. I told him.
> 
> - Mike


And so you conveniently only said half of the truth. Would say I'm surprised, but I'm not a liar.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

SinisterHydraCP said:


> This guy is so delusional. Sure shit on the country that has given you an opportunity to live without fear of being arrested for speaking your mind and that is not ruled by a dictator who doesn't care about it's people.


You should have been here in the 1960s and 1970s, pal. Unless you were hoping for a visit from the FBI, you didn't open your mouth with anything about Russia unless it was negative.

Do you seriously believe that the people who rule the U.S. care about their people??? They care about keeping power and their own pocket book. The two political parties that control the country keep a tight rein on things and are not going to let anyone else in on the action!

I can understand that you've joined in attacking me because you're bored since there hasn't been a Nazi demonstration in Lithuania since March. Hang in there, I understand they have one in February. It will be here in no time and you can hang out your swastika and remember your relatives who fought for the Reich. 

- Mike


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> I can understand that you've joined in attacking me because you're bored since there hasn't been a Nazi demonstration in Lithuania since March. Hang in there, I understand they have one in February. It will be here in no time and you can hang out your swastika and remember your relatives who fought for the Reich.
> 
> - Mike


You tell them! We can't let dirty fascist Baltic nazi pig national socialist scum fuck fascist russophobe fascist westerners run wild!


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> You should have been here in the 1960s and 1970s, pal. Unless you were hoping for a visit from the FBI, you didn't open your mouth with anything about Russia unless it was negative.
> 
> Do you seriously believe that the people who rule the U.S. care about their people??? They care about keeping power and their own pocket book. The two political parties that control the country keep a tight rein on things and are not going to let anyone else in on the action!
> 
> ...


Last week a man from Switzerland was arrested for having Soviet flag on his jacket. Last month two Lithuanian men were arrested for having swastikas on their jackets. So as you see, Lithuanian laws are as dumb as it gets and that goes for both sides. So please pick another dead horse to beat.

And yes, there are nazi parades here. Because of a little thing called 'freedom of expression'. I understand you are very interested in Russia, so may not have heard of such thing.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> You tell them! We can't let dirty fascist Baltic nazi pig national socialist scum fuck fascist russophobe fascist westerners run wild!


Allur, some new member with a few dozen posts comes on here and attacks me. What was I supposed to say? This is why I don't bother answering these posts. 

In any case, no problem! I'm going back to my policy of not answering. Let them rant and rave. I'll just keep posting info on unfolding events in Ukraine. 

- Mike


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## SinisterHydraCP (Sep 27, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> You should have been here in the 1960s and 1970s, pal. Unless you were hoping for a visit from the FBI, you didn't open your mouth with anything about Russia unless it was negative.
> 
> Do you seriously believe that the people who rule the U.S. care about their people??? They care about keeping power and their own pocket book. The two political parties that control the country keep a tight rein on things and are not going to let anyone else in on the action!
> 
> ...


This fucking guy makes me crack up every time! Are you sure you're not affected by Russian propaganda because you use the same words to describe the situation. LOL
Anyway when Nazis came in 1941 some Lithuanians joined them because the soviets conducted their red terror strategy when they occupied Lithuania, who wouldn't join an enemy of the country that has tortured your people, deported your family and took your home? Now I'm not defending them, what they did was very wrong and resulted in a lot of deaths but wake up man it's the Russia that promotes homophobia, racism and nationalist views just like the nazis.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Allur, some new member with a few dozen posts comes on here and attacks me. What was I supposed to say? This is why I don't bother answering these posts.
> 
> In any case, no problem! * I'm going back to my policy of not answering.* Let them rant and rave. I'll just keep posting info on unfolding events in Ukraine.
> 
> - Mike


aka, "I am getting destroyed, so I better keep my mouth shut until I destroy myself completely".


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> Allur, some new member with a few dozen posts comes on here and attacks me. What was I supposed to say? This is why I don't bother answering these posts.
> 
> In any case, no problem! I'm going back to my policy of not answering. Let them rant and rave. I'll just keep posting info on unfolding events in Ukraine.
> 
> - Mike


Well, for starters I would avoid instantly calling them Nazis, you know, at least until I've seen some more of their views on jews and racial theories and stuff, since that's kind of the big thing about Nazis :toomanykobes perhaps call them stupid or troll and shit if you have to go with the name calling




The Manowarrior said:


> Last week a man from Switzerland was arrested for having Soviet flag on his jacket. Last month two Lithuanian men were arrested for having swastikas on their jackets. So as you see, Lithuanian laws are as dumb as it gets and that goes for both sides. So please pick another dead horse to beat.
> 
> And yes, there are nazi parades here. Because of a little thing called 'freedom of expression'. I understand you are very interested in Russia, so may not have heard of such thing.


Just by the way, since Swastikas were brought up and we have two "Naziland" citizens in the thread, what are the universities like down there in Naziland? Do you have the same reading booths that we have in the Lapland University, of course reserved for Mein Kampf only?










How about the cuisine of Naziland? Do you only feast with these joulutorttus that we eat in my neck of woods to celebrate Adolf's birthday on December 25th?












I think I'm the one who should be called Nazi since my country is like this :shocked:


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

MORE MASS GRAVES FOUND IN AREAS LIBERATED FROM KIEV JUNTA'S TROOPS

As I thought, more and more evidence of the Kiev junta's atrocities are turning up as the National Guard abandons its positions and large areas are liberated from the fascists.

I don't see the Western press writing about this even though OSCE observers are confirming the atrocities. So, much for the "free" press in the West!

My earlier analogy of the Kiev junta's murder battalions with the German Nazi Einsatzgruppen is looking more accurate!

- Mike






The mass graves left by the junta death squads in the Donbass contain dozens of bodies. Just today, the DNR found three mass graves in different localities. *The largest contained the remains of more than 30 victims*. 

*Already, it’s clear that atrocities and abuses against the civilian population were widespread wherever the junta aggressors operated*. When the National Guard retreated, people found new graves. 

Local people tell you about the graves left by the junta death squads. Just yesterday, they found one of these graves, with the bodies of men and women with hands bound with duct tape. *This was a mass shooting of civilians*. 

Now, news is out of many graves of such shooting victims. You find them in Kommunar, Nizhnyaya Krynka, Telmanovo, and Starobeshevo. They could contain hundreds of victims. *Those who the junta troops didn’t shoot, they terrorised*. 

Locals told us, “They took vodka and staggered around drunk. *They plundered us; they stole our vehicles and things”*. In Panteleyevka, once under Natsgadi occupation, the villagers called the junta soldiers “occupiers”. They didn’t allot any food for the civilian population. They left the people with nothing… and with moods to match. 

*Looting and robberies are the norm wherever the so-called “Ukrainian” state rules*. For many days, whole families lived in basements, afraid to go out. Normal life is returning to areas where, only a few days ago, junta death squads bossed the locals. 

In Vasilevka, the junta forces fled a few days and moved out. Now, the VSN holds the town, so, the people are also coming back. Today, it’s raining, so, the going is tough in front of the friendly positions. The dirt roads are seas of mud, only the most powerful off-road vehicles can use them. The patriot forces are on alert in the trenches and dugouts around the clock. Everybody at the front is talking about a few large graves that are on neutral territory.

25 September 2014

Russkaya Vesna

http://rusvesna.su/news/1411622374


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## SinisterHydraCP (Sep 27, 2014)

Allur said:


> Well, for starters I would avoid instantly calling them Nazis, you know, at least until I've seen some more of their views on jews and racial theories and stuff, since that's kind of the big thing about Nazis :toomanykobes perhaps call them stupid or troll and shit if you have to go with the name calling
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 pure comedy


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

There are some protests going on between the pro-war and anti-war groups in Moscow 

For what I understand the are just calling each other assholes until the police ask them to go home


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

stevefox1200 said:


> There are some protests going on between the pro-war and anti-war groups in Moscow
> 
> For what I understand the are just calling each other assholes until the police ask them to go home


So no one's calling anyone a Nazi?

I call fake


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Allur said:


> So no one's calling anyone a Nazi?
> 
> I call fake


But what if... What if not all Russians are xenophobes? What if they aren't all deluded, ignorant assholes trying to impose their opinion on everybody? What if not every Russian thinks that everyone who disagrees with them is a nazi? Just think about that for a moment.


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## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

The Manowarrior said:


> Last week a man from Switzerland was arrested for having Soviet flag on his jacket. Last month two Lithuanian men were arrested for having swastikas on their jackets. So as you see, Lithuanian laws are as dumb as it gets and that goes for both sides. So please pick another dead horse to beat.
> 
> And yes, there are nazi parades here. Because of a little thing called 'freedom of expression'. I understand you are very interested in Russia, so may not have heard of such thing.


I'm not even going to talk to Batko but you think it's stupid to arrest people who parade around with the swastika on their clothing? Because freedom of speech?


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Oxi said:


> I'm not even going to talk to Batko but you think it's stupid to arrest people who parade around with the swastika on their clothing? Because freedom of speech?


I was just pointing out the fact that both nazis and communists are treated the same here. Batko obviously has nothing to say when he's presented with an actual argument supported by facts, so he backed off and ran away from the discussion.


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Oxi said:


> I'm not even going to talk to Batko but you think it's stupid to arrest people who parade around with the swastika on their clothing? Because freedom of speech?


Not every swastika is a Nazi swastika.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

EVIDENCE OF KIEV JUNTA'S WAR CRIMES MOUNT AS MORE MASS GRAVES ARE DISCOVERED IN TERRITORY RECENTLY TAKEN FROM RETREATING JUNTA FORCES

*The VSN found another mass grave near Nizhnyaya Krynka, days after the OSCE confirmed the discovery of three mass graves in areas recently abandoned by junta forces*. 

DNR Deputy Chairman of the Government A Е Purgin told ITAR-TASS that the new site of suspected murders isn’t far from Makeyevka, but that the number of victims and their identities are still unknown, saying, “we discovered another grave… we’ll establish the number of victims and how they died after we exhume the bodies”. 

*An international monitoring mission arrived at the new burial site, including experts from France and Russia*, insisting on an immediate investigation of the suspected war crimes. Several weeks ago, before the present ceasefire, junta forces and National Guard occupied this part of Novorossiya. *Earlier this month, an Amnesty International report confirmed that the so-called Aidar irregular battalion (which operated in this area) committed war crimes including abductions, executions, and extortion*.

28 September 2014

СМЕРТЬ ЗАПАДНЫМ УКРАЙНСКИМ ФАШИСТАМ

DEATH TO THE WESTERN UKRAINIAN FASCISTS​







[/URL][/IMG]


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

I guess that means Ukrainians are "genetically" orientated to crime

Better cause an intentional famine to lower their population 

aint no domor like a Holodomor


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)




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## SinisterHydraCP (Sep 27, 2014)

stevefox1200 said:


> I guess that means Ukrainians are "genetically" orientated to crime
> 
> Better cause an intentional famine to lower their population
> 
> aint no domor like a Holodomor


oh snap. Seriously though Holodomor should get as much attention as holocaust so that some people open their eyes and realize that Uncle Joe wasn't any better than Hitler.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

SinisterHydraCP said:


> oh snap. Seriously though Holodomor should get as much attention as holocaust so that some people open their eyes and realize that Uncle Joe wasn't any better than Hitler.


Can you imagine that there are people who deny Holodomor ever happening ?:lmao And that there are people who deny Holocaust? :ti And worst of all, people who deny one of them, but acknowledge the other :maury


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## SinisterHydraCP (Sep 27, 2014)

The Manowarrior said:


> Can you imagine that there are people who deny Holodomor ever happening ?:lmao And that there are people who deny Holocaust? :ti And worst of all, people who deny one of them, but acknowledge the other :maury


I'm not surprised that some people deny Holodomor, but there's actually someone who denies Holocaust? How delusional must one be to do that?!?


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

SinisterHydraCP said:


> I'm not surprised that some people deny Holodomor, but there's actually someone who denies Holocaust? How delusional must one be to do that?!?


If you search online, there's whole sited dedicated to 'the truth' about Holocaust with 'proofs' that it didn't happen..


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

SinisterHydraCP said:


> I'm not surprised that some people deny Holodomor, but there's actually someone who denies Holocaust? How delusional must one be to do that?!?


Most of the Holocaust is not backed by any real evidence. Treblinka is actually utter nonsense and from a logistical standpoint a blatant falsehood.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

roadkill_ said:


> Most of the Holocaust is not backed by any real evidence. Treblinka is actually utter nonsense and from a logistical standpoint a blatant falsehood.












"I don't know what you are talking about, I had lots of fun!!"


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Right Sector and Svoboda in conjunction with the Kiev junta once again demonstrate how adept they are at destroying things. They destroyed the large Lenin monument in Kharkov yesterday and painted slogans such as "Heil Ukraine" on the base. 

The Kiev junta and its neo-Nazi enforcers continue on their path of destruction, terror, and intimidation in an effort to ethnically cleanse Ukraine and create a population with an ultra-nationalist, neo-Nazi mindset. Two of the countries major political parties have been banned which leaves little choice in the upcoming Rada "elections." 

Despite the present truce and halt of the Kiev junta's genocide in the east, my guess is that things are going to get alot worse - especially this winter when the Ukrainian people have no gas to heat their homes. Hopefully, that will be the straw that breaks the camel's back and the Ukrainian people kick out Washington's ass kissers in the junta and put an end to the ultra-nationalist, neo-Nazi movement.

- Mike 

*People Mourn Destruction of Lenin Monument in Kharkov*


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

stevefox1200 said:


> "I don't know what you are talking about, I had lots of fun!!"


Where did the 150,000 tons of wood come from to cremate 870,000 bodies at Treblinka?

While you're at it, you can also explain to me where the vehicles came from that transported it. We're talking about a regime that was confiscating horses to keep its war machine going, but apparently they had enough spare vehicles and fuel to move the equivelant of one fully equipped armoured division, out to Treblinka. And where it was stored. If the wood wasn't stored/seasoned, then more than 150,000 tons would've been needed, because fresh wood is damp and heavier.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

"I still have no clue what you are talking about. Well I'm off to liquidate some ghettos"


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## SinisterHydraCP (Sep 27, 2014)

roadkill_ said:


> Most of the Holocaust is not backed by any real evidence. Treblinka is actually utter nonsense and from a logistical standpoint a blatant falsehood.


So where did all the Jewish people go? :shrug


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

KIEV JUNTA'S RIGHT SECTOR THUGS SEVERLEY BEAT OPPOSITION CANDIDATE RUNNING IN OCT. 26TH RADA ELECTIIONS








[/URL][/IMG]

While they were digging up mass graves with hundreds of non-combatant civilians executed by Azov and Aidar Punitive Battlions in the east, the atmosphere for the "democratic" parliamentary elections was being set in the western areas of Ukraine.

Nestor Shufrych, opposition candidate running in the parliamentary elections, was scheduled to take part in a press conference in Odessa. He never made it. A gang of about 30 Right Sector neo-Nazis attacked him and beat him senseless. Police stood idly by as Shurych's body guards fought their way through the mob of fascists and threw him into a van.

Disbanding the opposition political parties is not enough for the Kiev junta. They have their Nazi enforcers continuing the campaign of terror and intimidation of political candidates, as well as average citizens.

*THIS IS DEMOCRACY? THESE ARE FAIR AND LEGITIMATE ELECTIONS??* 

*AND, THE WEST REMAINS SILENT*.

- Mike


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## SinisterHydraCP (Sep 27, 2014)

After Russia takes over the world:


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## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

roadkill_ said:


> Most of the Holocaust is not backed by any real evidence. Treblinka is actually utter nonsense and from a logistical standpoint a blatant falsehood.


So the images are all faked, photoshopped? An elaborate post-war hollywood set? (I'm referring to recent discoveries by archaeologists)

http://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/J...th-camp-finds-evidence-of-gas-chambers-346947


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Reaper said:


> So the images are all faked, photoshopped? An elaborate post-war hollywood set? (I'm referring to recent discoveries by archaeologists)
> 
> http://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/J...th-camp-finds-evidence-of-gas-chambers-346947


Yes. On a related note, Obama is actually an extraterrestrial shape shifting reptilian.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*As more territory is liberated from the invasion forces of the Kiev junta, more and more atrocities committed by the occupying animals are being uncovered*.

*OSCE observers/experts *have documented over 400 bodies of executed non-combatant civilians. *The female villagers in the liberated areas have testified to the fact that they were subjected to frequent gang rapes by the Kiev troops *- specifically members of the Azov and Donbas Punitive Battalions who were occupying the areas in question. The villagers also complained that the occupying Kiev troops looted their homes and stole their personal possessions.

*These are the murderers, rapists, and robbers that Washington and Brussels support*. It's a good thing that OSCE observers are on hand documenting these atrocities. Otherwise, the western media would remain as silent as the graves of the civilians murdered by the Kiev junta's neo-Nazi enforcers.

- Mike










OSCE EXPERTS: OVER 400 BODIES FOUND IN MASS GRAVES IN DONETSK TERRITORY RETAKEN FROM JUNTA FORCES - REPORTS OF GANG RAPE, LOOTING BY AZOV AND DONBAS PUNITIVE BATTALIONS

Latvian activist Einārs Graudiņš told Rossiskaya Gazeta that unidentified bodies of civilians are in Donetsk morgues after their removal from mass graves. 

*Graudiņš visited two mass graves as part of a group of eight EU experts, accompanied by DNR and LNR officials*. He said that the bodies were only under a thin layer of soil cover, it was clear that someone hastily threw the bodies into the pits. DNR security forces are exhuming the bodies from the graves, documenting the removal of each body, and conducting an initial examination before sending the bodies to the morgue. 

Graudiņš stated, “Currently, there are round 400 unidentified corpses just in Donetsk morgues. Obviously, that number will grow as we discover more graves and exhume the bodies”. 

Local women told him that junta soldiers looted their homes and lined up at the post office to send the loot home. Graudiņš noted, “We were approached by a group of women. *They said that mercenaries from the Azov and Donbass battalions subjected all the women of the village to frequent gang-rapes*. Victims of abuse included teenage girls, girls under 12-years-old, and elderly women”.

30 September 2014

Rossiya Segodnya

http://ria.ru/world/20140930/1026327604.html


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

NOVOROSSIYA CONFIDENT IN INDEPENDENCE - UNVEILS ITS NEW CURRENCY








[/URL][/IMG]​
In desperation the Kiev junta's fascist punitive battalions continue to break the cease fire killing Novorossiya civilians and a Swiss humanitarian worker the other day. They know that they will eventually be gone and Novorossiya will remain independent of the American puppet government in Kiev.

Looking forward toward that bright day when Washington and NATO's proxies are driven from their land, Novorossiya has unveiled the currency of their new country. Check out the photos below.

- Mike









[/URL][/IMG]​
The new project of Novorossiya’s national currency is qualitatively different from anything done in this direction before. According to information on RuNet, Dmitri Nikolayevich Zagorenko, an expert on the monetary systems in the CIS, designed the banknotes. In accordance with statements of the Novorossiya Government, the denominations of the Novorossiya Rouble notes are similar to their analogues in Russian usage. The designs are ready for production.

•*5 Roubles*: Grey, Purple. Concept: history of Donetsk. The obverse portrays John Hughes, the founder of Donetsk; "Palma Mertsalova"; building of the railway station in Donetsk. The reverse features the monument "Glory to Miner's work" and the Spaso-Preobrazhensky Cathedral in Donetsk.

•*10 Roubles*: Concept: Music, Scythian roots, the Donetsk steppe. The obverse portrays Sergei Prokofiev (born Krasnoarmeisk), Soviet composer; stylised image of a piano; fragment notation Dance of the Knights. On the reverse, Holy Assumption Church in Konstantinovka, statue Scythian king in landscape park "Kleban-Byk" near Konstantinovka.

•*50 Roubles*: Concept: geographic research, Azov. On the front, a portrait of Georgi Sedov, Russian hydrographer, Arctic explorer; sailboat; compass; a map for the Sedov polar expedition. On the back, the monument "Angel of Peace" in Donetsk and St George Cathedral in Makeyevka.

•*100* Roubles: Olive, Orange. Concept: military history, cinema, Slavyansk, The obverse portrays Leonid Bykov (born in Slavyansk), Soviet actor, screenwriter; image plane. The reverse has Holy Resurrection Church in Slavyansk, statue of the Soldier (Saur-Mogila memorial complex) near Snezhnoye.

•*500 Roubles*: Purple, Violet. Concept: fine art, metallurgy, Mariupol. On the front, a portrait of artist Arkhip Kuindzhi (born in Mariupol); brush, palette. On the reverse, St Nicholas Cathedral and the monument "Metallurg" in Mariupol.

•*1,000 Roubles*: Emerald, Gold, Burgundy. Concept: Lugansk. The obverse portrays Vladimir Dal (born in Lugansk), Slavonic scholar, encyclopaedist, and populariser of the Russian language. On the reverse, St Vladimir Cathedral in Lugansk.

•*5,000 Roubles*: Red-Orange, Grey, Blue. Concept: politics, politics DNR, continuity, a popular uprising, Spirituality. the obverse portrays Artyom (Fyodor Sergeyev), the founder of the Republic of Donetsk-Krivoy Rog, the flag and Supreme Soviet building of the DNR. On the reverse, Holy Assumption Lavra in Svyatogorsk and Artyom monument in Donetsk.

3 October 2014

Russkaya Vesna

http://rusvesna.su/news/1412342828

https://vk.com/topic-3223620_30523825


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

^ Imagine how stupid they're gonna look after their fascist plan fails :lmao


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

American Corporate Filth to Rape Western Ukraine for Shale Gas… The REAL Reason for the Coup and the Civil War 

The *TRUTH *is out… *American "oligarchs" wanted to topple V F Yanukovich and instigated the Ukrainian Civil War so that they could come in and destroy the Ukrainian countryside in their perpetual search for energy sources*. 

Chevron is only going to operate in Western Ukraine… it would appear that the oligarchs have written off the rest of “Ukraine”… however, Western Ukraine appears headed for Polish occupation, so, it’s safe for American Corporate rape. The Americans don’t care if they turn Western Ukraine into a moonscape. If you wish to see Western Ukraine before American corporations rip it apart… go now. Otherwise, you’ll see a devastated shell.



_Rossiya Segodnya, citing Ukrainian media sources, reported that the American oil company Chevron would open a subsidiary in the Ukraine to exploit shale gas, and that the National Bank of Ukraine gave the green light to the deal. 

To exploit hydrocarbons in the Western Ukraine, Chevron plans to invest about 10 billion USD with production centred in Lvov and Ivano-Frankovsk Oblasts. 

According to the NBU, Chevron opened a domestic bank account for its operations. In November 2013, Chevron signed an agreement with “Nadra Olessky”, 90 percent owned by the state enterprise “Nadra Ukraina” (composed of 13 exploration and specialised enterprises). On 3 October, Yaroslav Klimovich, the head of “Nadra Ukraina” board, said that next week the Ukraine intends to approve the final version of an operating agreement with Chevron to produce shale gas.

8 October 2014

Novorusinform

http://www.novorosinform.org/news/id/11309
_

MEANWHILE​
The junta in Kiev either has no idea what their military is doing or just continues to lie through its teeth. OSCE observers have been reporting Kiev junta forces consistently breaking the cease fire or lying about the independence fighters breaking the cease fire.


_*OSCE observers pointed up discrepancies between actual events and information provided to them by junta military sources*. 

The daily report of the observation mission for 6 October posted on the OSCE website stated, “Ukrainian commanders of units stationed north and north-east of Mariupol told our observers that shelling occurred on the previous day. *Our observers at the front at the time at that time heard no artillery fire and saw no sign that shelling actually took place recently*. In Debaltsevo, a senior Ukrainian officer reported to the mission that there were 76 cases of ceasefire violation in the past 24 hours… 42 by the VSN, 34 by the Ukrainians… killing one person and wounding 13. *The members of our mission didn’t record any incidents in the area and didn’t see anything that’d confirm the officer’s allegations”*.

7 October 2014

ITAR-TASS

http://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1492472


_


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

THE HATE OF THE PEOPLE OF NOVOROSSIYA THAT THE WEST HAS SOWN WILL BE REAPED FOR GENERATIONS!

The longer the Kiev junta puts off its inevitable total evacuation of Novorossiya, the more hatred is sown toward them and their masters in Washington and Brussels. 

The conduct of the National Guard smacks of that of the Nazi German occupation forces of The Great Patriotic War and will not be forgotten by the people who are suffering today. As the guy in the second interview says, in substance, "We are going to make them suffer the way they are making us suffer, only 100 times more! Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but it will happen!" Regarding Poroshenko, the general feeling is that "he should go to Africa and suck monkey dicks!"

*The United States has once again succeeded in making an entire people hate its guts by engineering and supporting this illegal government that rules by intimidation and murder.
*
- Mike






_A Mariupol resident talked about the outrages perpetrated by Ukrainian bandits (“soldiers”) in the Occupied Territories:


In Mariupol, there is one outrage after another. The Ukrainian occupiers are doing what they please, ranging from looting and vandalism, to kidnapping dissenters. 

Today, people in our town feel powerless; the Ukrainian invaders treat us like cattle, many people are afraid to go out into the streets even in the daytime. Children have forgotten what fresh air is like; their parents don’t let them out of their apartments. The pig yes-men of the “Blue-Yellow” warriors are also fat n’ sassy… they do whatever they please, no official dares to contradict them, no matter what they do. 

However, a few weeks ago, when the opolchenie almost freed Mariupol from “United Ukraine” occupation, they trembled with fear and fled the city like rats.

9 October 2014

Novorusinform

http://www.novorosinform.org/news/id/11464_


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

I don't like the dea of bumping this thread very much, but I just thought that this is something noteworthy.

*Ukraine Used Cluster Bombs, Evidence Indicates*

DONETSK, Ukraine — The Ukrainian Army appears to have fired cluster munitions on several occasions into the heart of Donetsk, unleashing a weapon banned in much of the world into a rebel-held city with a peacetime population of more than one million, according to physical evidence and interviews with witnesses and victims.

Sites where rockets fell in the city on Oct. 2 and Oct. 5 showed clear signs that cluster munitions had been fired from the direction of army-held territory, where misfired artillery rockets still containing cluster bomblets were found by villagers in farm fields.

The two attacks wounded at least six people and killed a Swiss employee of the International Red Cross based in Donetsk.

If confirmed, the use of cluster bombs by the pro-Western government could complicate efforts to reunite the country, as residents of the east have grown increasingly bitter over the Ukrainian Army's tactics to oust pro-Russian rebels.

The army’s use of cluster munitions, which shower small bomblets around a large area, could also add credibility to Moscow’s version of the conflict, which is that the Ukrainian national government is engaged in a punitive war against its own citizens. The two October strikes occurred nearly a month after President Petro O. Poroshenko of Ukraine signed a cease-fire agreement with rebel representatives.

Read the full story here: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/w...ster-bombs-report-charges.html?ref=world&_r=0

So it appears that Ukrainian army has used a weapon that is banned, during peace. But since it's a Western source, we can just take it as a joke, right? Right?


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

Extraordinary chutzpah, that report. A de-facto state newspaper from a country that has displaced and killed millions within the space of one decade, based on religion and ethnicity, off the back of an atrocity they staged themselves.

The balls on these fucks!


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Yeah. How dare they report news when their government is doing such things?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*Well, it's about time the NY Times wrote a truthful article about the Kiev junta. Unfortunately, the only reason they wrote it up is that the evidence is so overwhelming and the Human Rights Watch is pushing the issue. Otherwise, they wouldn't have said a word. 
*
*The way they have been silent on:*

13,500 Ukrainians in the southeast have been victims of war crimes perpetrated by the Kiev junta's National Guard;
http://ria.ru/incidents/20141002/1026589973.html

Kiev junta's National Guard seizing the Russian Orthodox Convent of the Iveron Icon of the Mother of God, desecrating and vandalizing the church and convent property, and using it as a base to shell rebel positions; 
http://www.pravmir.com/ukrainian-army-occupied-church-donetsk-fires/

Mass executions of civilians by Kiev junta's National Guard units and dumping of the bodies in mass graves in Donetsk and other areas;
http://ria.ru/world/20141003/1026821391.html

Pro-government Neo-Nazis in Kharkov crucify a man;
http://rusvesna.su/news/1412074006

Ukrianian soldier of the Kiev junta's punitive Dnepr Battalion admits killing civilians, including women and children for cash;
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/752232

OSCE believes that the Kiev junta is not in complete control of its armed forces and will not or cannot force certain units to comply with the code of conduct.
http://www.novorosinform.org/news/id/10872

Students at the Complutense University of Madrid kicked out radical Ukrainian nationalists who stormed into a lecture, trying to provoke a fight. La República reported that the perps left the university premises in a van registered to the Diplomatic Corps of the Ukrainian Embassy in Madrid, still waving Ukrainian flags.
http://rt.com/news/194864-madrid-un..._medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome

Kiev junta occupiers runnng rampant in Mariupol. "The Ukrainian occupiers are doing what they please, ranging from looting and vandalism, to kidnapping dissenters." 
http://www.novorosinform.org/news/id/11464

*I could go on, but you get the drift. The NY Times publishes one article about the Kiev junta's atrocities. What about the hundreds of other atrocities that they covered up and refused to print???

Did the NY Times mention the pro-government neo-Nazi rallies calling for the killing of Russians and anyone who doesn't go along with the fascist agenda of the Kiev junta???
UKRAINE UBER ALLES!
*





*Did the NY Times mention who is fighting against the Kiev junta's einsatzgruppen killers??? They are miners, workers - locals from Donetsk, Slavyansk, and other areas of Novorossiya.*


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

KIEV JUNTA READIES ITS FORCES FOR A MASSIVE STRIKE AGAINST DONETSK DESPITE "CEASE FIRE"


It would appear that the only thing holding back the American supported fascists of the Kiev junta is the muddy season. Until the ground hardens there is no chance to initiate an attack.

Living conditions are plummeting throughout Ukraine and the prospects of insufficient supplies of natural gas for winter heating are looking like reality with Kiev still refusing to pay its bills. 

The junta has had five Ministers of Defense over the last five months with each successive Minister being sacked for incompetence. Reinforcements being sent to the occupied areas of Novorossiya to replace the thousands of killed and wounded junta soldiers and National Guard are made up of Western Ukrainian hillbillies who received a few weeks of military training before being deployed.

If the Kiev junta completely breaks the truce and marches on Donetsk it more than likely will end badly for them. Either the Donetsk defenders will hold their own and drive back the rag tag scum the fascists have rounded up to throw into the fray. Or, Russia will be forced to intervene and send in troops in full force.

In the meantime, the people throughout Ukraine are suffering because the plans of the US and EU failed to cow the defenders of Novorossiya. Things are going to get alot worse and time will tell how this is going to end. 

- Mike 






At present, I’m receiving much intel about preparations for an offensive by the junta armed forces and gangs of the so-called “National Guard” against Donetsk. Recently, the enemy sharply intensified activities of their recon groups, as well as increasing shellfire against our troops, civilian neighbourhoods, and industrial enterprises. They’ve used MRLs, heavy artillery, and Tochka-U tactical missiles. *Civilian casualties during the truce are higher than they were in the period of active hostilities earlier this year*. 

Two enemy strike forces are clearly readying for an offensive aimed at capturing the DNR capital from the northwest and southwest. A third force concentrated around Debaltsevo could strike at Shakhtyorsk or at Krasny Luch and Antratsit, in an attempt to cut off the DNR and LNR forces from the Russian border, to cut our forces off from all supplies. If all the forces concentrated by the enemy enter battle simultaneously and aggressively, they’d quickly defeat our numerically-small, poorly-armed, and poorly-led forces if we didn’t receive direct Russian assistance; not only would Novorossiya cease to exist, so would our people.

Based on the data available to me, as well as competent analysis of the intel by professional specialists, the enemy offensive will have the primary aim of capturing the Donetsk/Makeyevka conurbation, which is the largest and most important in the region. The Kiev junta will arrange a provocation before the attack… they’re very good at that. However, the attack must be swift and decisive, it must meet its goals quickly; otherwise, it won’t succeed. The Ukrainian side is well aware that if the operation bogs down, there’s a high likelihood of Russian intervention. *The goal of the enemy is to grab Donetsk, or at least parts of it, before the Russian government can intervene. Then, they’d declare a unilateral ceasefire and appeal to the USA and EU with a statement of commitment to resolve the conflict by peaceful means*.

The main thing is not to give the Russian government time to make adequate decisions. That is the only thing that’d deter a military response to the Ukrainian aggression, and it’d halt any action on the Ukrainian forces left in Mariupol. Simply put, Kiev decided to take a gamble… make a quick strike, then, “make peace”, but on their terms (because without Donetsk, or with it in contention, a sovereign Novorossiya is out of the question in principle). 

If they can carry out this plan, it’d be the largest military-political defeat of the Russian Federation since 1991. It’d cause serious internal political turmoil. Therefore, I appeal to the Russian government agencies regulating the oversight of the Minsk Agreement… attend to the plans of the Ukrainian bandits and inform the President about the likely consequences of their implementation for the Russian people of both the Donbass and Russia proper.

22 October 2014

Novorusinform

http://www.novorosinform.org/news/id/12663


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Communist Party of Ukraine has been banned;

The Party of Regions has been banned;

Candidates for the Rada (Parliament) who disagree with the Kiev junta's agenda are beaten and tossed in dumpsters;

The only candidates running are pro-West, pro-junta, and pro-fascist;

The Neo-Nazi gangs of Right Sector and Svoboda roam the streets and terrorize anyone that doesn't toe the line set by them.

Fighting is still going on in Novorossiya despite the "truce."

WELL, SINCE IT LOOKS LIKE ALL ALTERNATIVE CHOICES TO THE AMERICAN PUPPET KIEV JUNTA HAVE BEEN ELIMINATED...


LET'S HAVE AN ELECTION IN UKRAINE​
- Mike 




NOVOROSSIYA HUNKERS DOWN AND PREPARES FOR KIEV JUNTA ATTACK








[/IMG]
_Defenders of Donetsk rally and prepare for the coming onslaught from American backed Kiev junta troops_.

The word is out that patriot forces expect a Uniate Kiev junta sneak attack either tomorrow or Monday, despite the fact that the ground isn’t yet suitable for major operations. 

The junta's Uniate neo-Nazis are holding a pseudo-election on Sunday… they’ve barred the KPU and Regions, which means that it’s a false election, it’s nothing but a figleaf for the Americans and Germans. I’m told that the patriot forces are on alert… the junta forces are only strengthened on paper… they lack tanks, APCs, and air support, in particular. Most of the incoming draftees are untrained hillbillies from Galicia… they’re only useful for mass wave attacks, they’re not real soldiers at all. 

When you add in that the present Minister of Defence isn’t even a soldier (he was a militarised cop in the VV MVDU), it looks like a full-blown fiasco is in the offing. Mind you, it’d be bloody… but it’d be premature due to American demands for action before the US election.

This is the calm before the shitstorm. God preserve the people of Novorossiya from the brutal Uniate murderers of the American controlled Kiev junta.

Voices From Russia


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The western news media is 100% correct in their assertion that pro-West parties were victorious in Ukraine's farcical Rada (Parliament) elections yesterday. However, that was not a difficult call to make since *ALL THE PARTIES AND MOST INDEPENDENT CANDIDATES RUNNING WERE PRO-WEST!!!* 

The only difference was in the degree of their western bias. The Communist Party and Party of Regions have been banned and didn't run any candidates. Independent candidates who opposed the Kiev junta's agenda were beaten, intimidated, and effectively silenced.

Add to that the official government figure of *52%* for the turnout of all registered voters. That percentage is probably inflated, but even if accurate it indicates that half the voting population of Ukraine didn't participate in the elections. What is the sense in voting if there is no candidate or Party running that professes your views???

So, it's business as usual in Kiev. The same people who ran the show the day before the elections on Saturday are running the show the day after the elections on Monday. Only now Washington and Brussels can say the right wing oligarchs and their neo-Nazi enforcers are in power based on "democratic" elections. What a farce!

- Mike 


Ukraine’s Parliamentary Elections Insult to Democracy: Expert

LONDON, October 27 (RIA Novosti) - The Sunday’s parliamentary elections in Ukraine were an insult to democracy and to millions of Ukrainians, the editor of the British Politics First magazine told RIA Novosti.

“Ukraine's Parliamentary elections were a farce, an insult to democracy and an affront to millions of the Ukrainian population,” Dr. Marcus Papadopoulos said on Sunday.

The British journalist noted that the traditional pro-Russian parties of Ukrainian politics - the Party of Regions and the Communist Party of Ukraine - have been “effectively destroyed” as political forces in Ukraine, as neither of them ran in the parliamentary elections this Sunday...continued http://en.ria.ru/analysis/20141027/...ary-Elections-Insult-to-Democracy-Expert.html


Farcical Ukrainian Parliamentary Elections

by Stephen Lendman

So-called Ukrainian democracy is pure fantasy. Tyranny masquerading as rule by the people. 

Sunday's snap unicameral Verkhovna Rada (parliamentary) elections reflected post-February coup business as usual. 

Ukraine is a US-installed fascist dictatorship. Its so-called government has no legitimacy whatever.

A previous article discussed whole families contesting for seats. Future deputies were known in advance. They're relatives of currently serving politicians. 

Including oligarch president Petro Poroshenko's son, Oleksiy. Running for the same Vinnitsa region's seat his father held previously. Assured of winning before voting began... (cont.)
http://sjlendman.blogspot.com/2014/10/farcical-ukrainian-parliamentary.html


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)




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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

[/IMG]


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

FOREIGN ELECTON MONITORS/OBSERVERS REPORT HUGE TURNOUT AT POLLS IN THE DONETSK PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC AND LUGANSK PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC





_Huge lines of people waiting to vote were evident everywhere in the Lugansk People's Republic and Donetsk People's Republic. Above voters que up to vote in the LPR.
_
Today’s elections in the People’s Republic of Donetsk and the People’s Republic of Lugansk went smoothly despite the attempts by two heavily armed Kiev junta groups to wreck the elections. The two junta military groups were neutralized by people’s militia forces. Other Kiev junta troops and security services were, for the most part, unsuccessful in their attempts to block roads entering the DPR and LPR.

Among the approximately 300 foreign election monitors/observers were American, German, and Italian contingents. They reported extremely heavy voter turnout in Lugansk where the polls were kept open an hour later than scheduled so that everyone could get a chance to vote. No infractions were reported.

*Meanwhile, an enraged Kiev junta has declared that all the foreigners who acted as election monitors/observers in the DPR and LPR would be declared persona non grata in Ukraine and not allowed entry into the country!*

http://en.ria.ru/politics/20141103/...tention-to-Declare-Them-Pesona-Non-Grata.html

Considering the present situation, the 70% voter turnout in the Lugansk People’s Republic was absolutely amazing. With about 30% of the vote counted Igor Plotnitsky leads with 63% and is the projected winner in the LPR.

More than one million people turned out to vote in the Donetsk People’s Republic. With almost half the vote counted Alexander Zakharchenko has 70% of the vote and is the projected winner.









_People line up to vote in the Donetsk People's Republic_

*One can only applaud these people who have been shelled, fire bombed, and murdered by the Kiev junta for months, yet had the balls to come out and vote despite threats of further violence from the American puppets in the Ukrainian capital*.

Russia will recognize the results of the elections in the DPR and LPR. The United States and its allies have stated that they will not recognize the will of the people in these countries.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

ALEXANDER ZAKHARCHENKO'S INAUGURATION AS HEAD OF THE DONETSK PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC





Vehicle of Alexander Zakharchenko arriving 
MAlexander Zakharchenko exiting vehicle
Armed men standing in formation outside of Donetsk Music and Drama Theatre [NO SOUND AT SOURCE]
Armed men standing in formation
Armed men
Alexander Zakharchenko entering Donetsk Music and Drama Theatre
Armed man on horseback
Men wearing traditional attire
Men playing trumpets
Alexander Zakharchenko, Prime Minister of the Donetsk People’s Republic (in Russian): "I swear to observe the laws of the DPR, to respect and protect the rights and freedoms of people and citizens, to honestly and conscientiously perform my duties of the head of the DPR."
Audience clapping
Alexander Zakharchenko being inaugurated 
Alexander Zakharchenko being inaugurated 
Men in traditional attire standing in formation
Donetsk Music and Drama Theatre



Zakharchenko officially sworn in as head of Donetsk People’s Republic

World November 04, 13:54 

DONETSK, November 4. /TASS/. Alexander Zakharchenko was officially sworn in as head of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic, TASS reported from an inauguration ceremony which is under way at Donetsk Music and Drama Theatre on Tuesday.

Zakharchenko has taken an oath on the Bible. "*I swear to observe the laws of the DPR, to respect and protect the rights and freedoms of people and citizens, to honestly and conscientiously perform my duties of the head of the DPR.*"

Before a solemn speech head of the Donetsk republican Central Elections Commission Roman Lyagin presented Zakharchenko with a certificate of the head of the Republic. Before the inauguration ceremony, four Cossacks in traditional clothes have brought the flag of the Donetsk People’s Republic to the drama theatre hall.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Foreign election observers? :lmao tell me more.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Foreign election observers? :lmao tell me more.


Elections in Donetsk Republic in Full Compliance With European Practices: Observer

DONETSK, November 2 (RIA Novosti) –* ...The elections were monitored by foreign observers from a number of countries, including the Czech Republic, Greece, Slovakia, Serbia, France, Germany, Israel and Russia...*
http://en.ria.ru/politics/20141102/...epublic-in-Full-Compliance-With-European.html



Foreign Observers Surprised With Kiev’s Intention to Declare Them Pesona Non Grata

DONETSK, November 2 (RIA Novosti) – The foreign observers, monitoring the elections in the self-proclaimed Luhansk and Donetsk people's republics in eastern Ukraine expressed concern over Kiev's intention to declare them persona non grata.

*Earlier on Sunday, the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) announced Kiev's plans to declare international monitors at the elections in Donbas persona non grata on the territory of Ukraine.
*
"...I feel sorry that I was blacklisted [by Kiev authorities], as I was previously observing the elections in Ukraine several times. I only monitor the election process. If I saw some violations, I would report. My duty is to protect the rights of the people," *Italian lawmaker Lucio Malan said Sunday...*

*...Member of European Parliament, Jean-Luc Shefhauzen*, said that declaring the observers persona non grata by Kiev is contrary to the idea of peace and does not meet the concept of federalism, because federalism is an ability of citizens to determine their own future...

*...One hundred observers from a number of European countries and the United States have arrived in the region to monitor the elections...*
http://en.ria.ru/politics/20141103/...tention-to-Declare-Them-Pesona-Non-Grata.html


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*LEGITIMACY OF ELECTIONS IN UKRAINE AND NOVOROSSIYA*


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

KIEV JUNTA RESUMES ITS INVASION OF NOVOROSSIYA - PRELIMINARY REPORTS OF RESUMPTION OF HEAVY FIGHTING








Reports have just started coming in of the Kiev junta's forces resuming its attacks on the Donetsk People's Republic and Lugansk People's Republic. 

The DPR defenders repelled an early morning tank attack in a Donetsk suburb and knocked out 5 fascist tanks. Apparently, fighting has also resumed at the Donetsk Airport. 

Two school children were killed and four wounded when the Kiev junta forces targeted an elementary school and shelled it this morning.

- Mike 

http://en.ria.ru/world/20141106/195211384/Donetsk-Faces-Kievs-Full-Scale-Military-Action-Leader.html

http://en.ria.ru/world/20141106/195...rces-Repel-Tank-Attack-on-Donetsk-Suburb.html

http://en.ria.ru/world/20141106/195...anks-in-Donetsk-Suburb-Fighting-Underway.html

http://en.ria.ru/world/20141106/195...spect-Donetsk-School-Killing-Site-Deputy.html


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Any comments and or news reports on the removal of a *Steve Jobs* memorial statue in St. Petersburg after *Tim Cook* announced that he's gay? Makes sense huh?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

RUSSIAN DIPLOMATS REMEMBER RICHARD SORGE AT GRAVESIDE SERVICE IN JAPAN

*"Hero of the Soviet Union - Richard Sorge"*







[/IMG]

*"This street is named in honor of the Hero of the Soviet Union, intelligence agent during the years of the Great Patriotic War, RICHARD SORGE, 1895-1944"*









At Tama Cemetery in the southwestern Tokyo suburbs, Russian diplomats held a memorial ceremony at the grave of legendary Soviet intelligence agent Richard Sorge on the 70th anniversary of his execution in Sugamo Prison on 7 November 1944. Flowers were laid by Russian Ambassador to Japan Yevgeny Afanasyev and senior diplomats of the Embassy, ​​as well as students of the school at the Russian diplomatic mission named after the famous agent, laid flowers on his grave. 

There were symposia and meetings on the Sorge Affair in Japan this month, as there’s still much interest in it amongst journalists and the scientific community. In particular, in particular, a major conference took place at the University of Aichi in Nagoya. On 8 November, at Tokyo's Meiji University, with the support of the Centre for Studies of Japanese-Russian History, will host an International Symposium, which shall consider the activities of Sorge in China and Japan.

As an agent of Soviet military intelligence, German Communist Richard Sorge arrived in Japan in 1933 and created a highly effective network of agents. He enjoyed the full confidence of the Nazi Embassy in Tokyo, and he managed to receive secret information from the highest circles of the Japanese leadership. Under the code names "Ramsay" and "Inson", he sent out one of the first pieces of intel on the approximate time of the planned attack of Nazi Germany on the USSR. Of even greater value was his intel about the fact that Japan wasn’t going to enter the war against the USSR in 1941. Historians say that he made a considerable contribution to Moscow’s victory. 

Japanese counterintel arrested Sorge on 18 October 1941. After interrogation, a court sentenced him to death by hanging. On 7 November 1944, in Sugamo Prison, the authorities hanged Sorge and his closest associate, Japanese journalist Ozaki Hotsumi. Another active agent in his group, Miyagi Yotoku, died in prison in 1943. Another member, journalist Branko Vukelić, received a life sentence, but died shortly afterwards, and US forces released radioman Max Clausen from prison after the war. 

In 1964, the USSR posthumously made Richard Sorge a Hero of the Soviet Union. Not only has there been a thorough investigation of Sorge’s life and times in Japan, just this year a very successful feature film about Sorge appeared in Japanese cinemas.

7 November 2014

ITAR-TASS

http://itar-tass.com/obschestvo/1556406


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

I still chuckle every time someone refers to "Novorossiya" as an actual thing.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Currently the Ruble is going down fucking hard

The year alone it has lost 30% of its worth with 10% lost this week 

The Russian banks are basically saying "fuck it" and taking away most of their restrictions to get cash moving again 

I guess Putin didn't need the EU to fuck up his economy, he could do it on his own


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)




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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_The West's refusal to report the atrocities being committed by the Kiev junta's punitive battalions in the DPR and LPR is not only the height of hypocrisy, it's criminal and gives support to the Right Sector neo-fascist murderers of Azov Battalion, Donbas Battalion, etc. - Mike

_
The West's Ignorance of Ukraine Atrocities is an Outrage










Today's comment from the Saker is very timely, as we published a sensational video earlier today about the western media's ignorance of events surrounding the Odessa massacre of May 2. 

Its going to be a big deal.

*The increasing news flow about the extreme brutality of the Kiev regime and the massive neo-nazi presence in its ranks, is snowballing, and, we are sure, will end up being a huge embarrassment for the EU States and the US who have embraced Kiev.* 

This is especially true for Germany, which is hyper-sensitive to nazi questions.

Listen to the Saker, we couldn't have said it better ourselves:

"Today, buried 9 minutes into the latest edition of the Channel 1 news report on Russian television, was a 23 seconds long statement by *Latvian Human Rights investigator Enorst Gronych* who declared on camera that he has interviewed the people of a village recently evacuated by the Junta's repression forces who had told him about *repeated cases of gang rapes of minor girls aged 12, 13 and 14 years old" by Ukrainian thugs*.

According to Gronych, this kind of pattern falls within the definition of "genocide".

In fact, the Russian TV channels have also been reporting mass graves, numerous cases of civilians pulled out of their cars and summarily shot, mass graves of people shot with their hands tied in their back and tortures, tortures and more tortures: systematic beatings, branding with swastikas, knife wounds, broken bones, heard trauma, damaged kidneys are all apparently what any detained person (regardless of the reason for their detention) should expect from the Junta's "liberators".

Furthermore, it is now becoming apparent that about 50% of the Novorussian "prisoners of war" which are being exchanged for Ukrainian POWs under the terms of the recent ceasefire agreement are not combatants at all but civilians seized for the sole purpose of exchanging them. 

It is not hard to imagine what truly happened to the missing 50%: most of them were tortured and shot by drunken Ukrainian thugs (in stark contrast Ukrainian POWs were treated, washed, fed, clothed and then given the choice to say in Russia or go back to the Ukraine).

*For anybody familiar with Ukrainian nationalism and Ukrainian nationalists, this is hardly surprising*. Not only is that fully consistent with what happens in the rest of the Junta-controlled Ukraine, it is also consistent with the practice of Ukrainian nationalists of the times of Bandera and before. 

No, *what is amazing is the utter silence in the West about this*. For somebody like me who vividly remembers the loud and indignant protests of western human rights NGOs, media and governments over human rights violations in Chechnia, Bosnia or Kosovo (including plenty of completely fictional ones!), it is amazing to see how "for some mysterious reasons" the Ukrainian atrocities seem to go unnoticed in the West. 

The very same West who is absolutely outraged about the arrest of Pussy Riot activists and who seems to seriously believe that organizing a "gay pride parade' in Moscow is a human right is apparently totally indifferent to the gang rape of 12-14 year old girls.

*What does this say about the West, it's values, it's leaders, media and people?"*
http://russia-insider.com/en/politi...02-10-22pm/wests_ignorance_ukraine_atrocities


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

I like how all the Russian media have a subtle "Ukrainians are just all bad people who would be better off dead" slant

Its ballsy to try that in 2014


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*RUSSIAN ORTHODOX FUNERAL SERVICE FOR TWO CHILDREN KILLED BY KIEV JUNTA ON NOVEMBER 5TH*


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The President
of the Republic of Belarus

The official Internet portal of the President of the Republic of Belarus


Alexander Lukashenko extends October Revolution Day greetings

7 November 2014 

Dear compatriots,

I congratulate you on the historical holiday – October Revolution Day.

There is no doubt that the events of October 1917 changed the fate of the huge country, created conditions for the national revival of peoples living in this country and for the realization of the right of nations to self-determination.

The heroic chronicle of war victories and labor achievements under the Soviet leadership is unparalleled. Fraternal nations of the Soviet Union joined efforts to create the robust economy, science and culture. Belarus managed not only to preserve, but also to multiply this potential when choosing its own way of development. Peace, stability and accord reigning in our society are the logical result of the fact that we did not override social achievements of the Great October, did not defy the ideals of equality, justice and selfless service to people.

Belarus is one of the few countries in the post-Soviet space which celebrate this historical date. The Belarusians do not reject their past and do not want to give up on the sovereign right to determine their future independently.

I sincerely wish you, dear compatriots, strong health, optimism, self-confidence and new achievements for the benefit of our Homeland.

Alexander Lukashenko

This page is available at: http://president.gov.by/en/news_en/...xtends-october-revolution-day-greetings-10128


© 2014, The Press Service of the President of the Republic of Belarus


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

stevefox1200 said:


> I like how all the Russian media have a subtle "Ukrainians are just all bad people who would be better off dead" slant
> 
> Its ballsy to try that in 2014


I wouldn't say it's so subtle. Try reading an "article" from RT. I wouldn't call that real journalism.


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

No matter the reader comments on RT. They say that for example NATO and the Ukrainian government are nothing but a bunch of Nazis and in the same sentence they blame everything that's wrong in the world on the Jews. :toomanykobes


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> No matter the reader comments on RT. They say that for example NATO and the Ukrainian government are nothing but a bunch of Nazis and in the same sentence they blame everything that's wrong in the world on the Jews. :toomanykobes


Readers' comments do not reflect the editorial policy of a news media source whether it is RT, or the NY Times, or Yahoo news. I've seen plenty of readers' comments on RT that are anti-Russian and openly Russophobic. On the other hand, anti-Russian Yahoo news gets plenty of pro-Russian readers' comments mixed in with the comments by Russia haters.

More important is the editorial policy of the the news media source. The main stream Western media has totally ignored the vicious atrocities committed by the Kiev junta's punitive battalions in the areas they have occupied in the DPR and LPR. Even after the junta's forces are driven out and mass graves of murdered civilians, rapes, and looting are discovered the main stream Western media ignores these and continues to paint the Kiev junta as democratic and civilized.

- Mike


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## ErickRowan_Fan (Feb 8, 2014)

I wish I was able to read actual, neutral news sites which reported every action in a factual, non-sensationalist manner instead of trying to come up with some kind of a half-assed solution by reading newspapers which are both paid to lie the other way. 

Even if one lies less than the other, that's not really much of a comfort as far as I'm concerned.


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> Readers' comments do not reflect the editorial policy of a news media source whether it is RT, or the NY Times, or Yahoo news. I've seen plenty of readers' comments on RT that are anti-Russian and openly Russophobic. On the other hand, anti-Russian Yahoo news gets plenty of pro-Russian readers' comments mixed in with the comments by Russia haters.


I'm aware and I didn't claim they'd reflect it at all.




Batko10 said:


> The main stream Western media has totally ignored the vicious atrocities committed by the Kiev junta's punitive battalions
> 
> - Mike


Indeed they have. Exactly like the main stream pro-Russian media has totally ignored the vicious atrocities committed by the separatist forces.





ErickRowan_Fan said:


> I wish I was able to read actual, neutral news sites which reported every action in a factual, non-sensationalist manner instead of trying to come up with some kind of a half-assed solution by reading newspapers which are both paid to lie the other way.
> 
> Even if one lies less than the other, that's not really much of a comfort as far as I'm concerned.


We all do man. Unfortunately that's not going to happen when it comes to this conflict.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> Indeed they have. Exactly like the main stream pro-Russian media has totally ignored the vicious atrocities committed by the separatist forces.


I would like to know what "vicious atrocities" the militias of the DPR and LPR have committed against the civilian populations??? I don't even think the Western media has been able to come up with a viable lie about this since the people of Novorossiya are the ones the militias are defending against the Kiev junta.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> I would like to know what "vicious atrocities" the militias of the DPR and LPR have committed against the civilian populations??? I don't even think the Western media has been able to come up with a viable lie about this since the people of Novorossiya are the ones the militias are defending against the Kiev junta.
> 
> - Mike


If you think that only one side is evil and that only one side commits atrocities, then you really are deluded. In war there is no good side.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

You see the separatists are shooting hugs while the government troops are shooting AIDS 

"I JUST HUGGED HIM RIGHT BETWEEN THE EYES!!"

personally I always felt that if you are shooting people for moral reasons somewhere along the line your morals have gotten a bit out of wack


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> I would like to know what "vicious atrocities" the militias of the DPR and LPR have committed against the civilian populations??? I don't even think the Western media has been able to come up with a viable lie about this since the people of Novorossiya are the ones the militias are defending against the Kiev junta.
> 
> - Mike


For example Amnesty International says there's mounting evidence of war crimes from *both sides*. Or is Amnesty International, the organization that called the US the country that violates the most human rights, a western minded blind money hungry Nazi organization?

Ukraine: Mounting evidence of war crimes and Russian involvement


Ukraine must stop ongoing abuses and war crimes by pro-Ukrainian volunteer forces



Also, like Tomas and Steve said, if you believe that the separatists are only shooting marshmallows and shelling the cities with red roses, while Porosenko's troops' guns are loaded with Josef Mengeles and ebola, I really don't know what I want to think anymore. Please say it isn't so.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> For example Amnesty International says there's mounting evidence of war crimes from *both sides*. Or is Amnesty International, the organization that called the US the country that violates the most human rights, a western minded blind money hungry Nazi organization?
> 
> Ukraine: Mounting evidence of war crimes and Russian involvement
> 
> ...


75% of your first article focuses on the presence of Russian troops in the DPR an LPR. The rest of the article attributes numerous war crimes to the Kiev junta's troops, except for the incident with the local pastor and his sons, and the mention that the freedom fighters have also used their artillery indiscriminately at times.

The second article that you offer by Amnesty International is totally focused on the ones who are committing 90%+ of the war crimes - the Kiev junta.

The atrocities of the Kiev junta's punitive battalions have dwarfed any 
illegal acts committed by errant DPR and LPR militia groups. Mass executions of civlians, rape of underage local girls, looting of local people's homes, terrorization of the local populace, etc. Add to that air raids that target city centers and the dropping of phosphorous bombs, in addition to indiscriminate shelling of civlian targets. 

The Western Ukrainian invaders have a history of committing atrocities and brutal acts against non-combatants that stretches back to the crimes committed by their grandfathers and fathers during WW II when they collaborated with the Nazis in German occupied Ukraine.

- Mike


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Once again, I never said the Kiev forces are any better than the separatists. My point is that the separatists are committing war crimes and the pro-russian media is ignoring them.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> Once again, I never said the Kiev forces are any better than the separatists. My point is that the separatists are committing war crimes and the pro-russian media is ignoring them.


The difference between the Kiev junta and the governments of the Donetsk People's Republic and Lugansk People's Republic is twofold.

First of all, the Kiev junta has a policy of committing atrocities and genocide in this war. If they deny that genocide is their policy, then the junta obviously can't control its own National Guard, because that is what is happening. 

Any illegal/immoral acts committed by the DPR and LPR militias were not based on a genocidal policy of the government or military, but committed by individual errant groups within their military. There's a big difference! 

Secondly, the question of degree is ignored. Easily, better than 90% of the atrocities and criminal acts have been committed by the Kiev junta's forces. However, these are ignored in the Western press and any, no matter how small, violation by the independence militias is blown way out of proportion.

I would agree that as a rule RT does not report on independence militia's illegal acts. However, they have alot less to not report than the Western press since it is the Kiev junta's neo-Nazi punitive battalions that are committing the vast majority of war crimes and atrocities.

- Mike


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## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Superkick said:


> Yeah, the East is for staying w/ Russia, and the West is for joining the EU. Glad someone is realizing that joining the EU is no better than staying w/ Russia.


This is my one post in this thread. Oh how wrong I've turned out to be.

All I'm going to say is that many parallels can be drawn between the origins of World War II and what is going on right now. The situation is depressing as are the mindless drones that support Putin's actions.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

UKRAINE'S DESCENT INTO FASCISM AND HOW THE WEST TURNS A BLIND EYE​







[/CENTER]

_Ukrainian fascism is a rampaging reality. The West's refusal to acknowledge it may be setting the scene for genocide_

Vladimir Golstein, Wed, Oct 22

_*Vladimir Golstein is Associate Professor of Slavic Languages at Brown University, an American Ivy League university*.

We have decided to publish this article in full, since it is by far the best description we know of the rise of fascism in Ukraine. 

*The author, who is a top US scholar, shows that Ukrainian fascism is not the fringe phenomenon that western governments and media say it is, but that is central to Ukrainian politics *and is the key to understanding Ukraine’s political crisis and the way that crisis is evolving as the situation in the country worsens. 

He shows by drawing on the latest academic scholarship that the fascism currently loose in Ukraine is fascism in its classic form, identical to the fascism of that existed in Europe in the 1930s and 1940s, and that *like that fascism it disguises its racist and genocidal agenda behind slogans of anti-communism*. He describes how the racist hatred that drives Ukrainian fascism is focused on Russia and Russians and expresses itself with the same genocidal language against Russians that fascists of the 1930s and 1940s used against Slavs and Jews. 

The author shows that western governments and media, their judgement already clouded by their hostility to Russia, have allowed themselves to be beguiled by Ukrainian fascism’s anti-communist slogans and insincere “Europeanism” so that they turn a blind eye both to its reality and to its actions, with potentially disastrous results as the situation in Ukraine worsens_. 








How does one interpret recent marches of Ukrainian nationalists in two main Ukrainian cities, Kharkov and Kiev?

To an outsider, these marches look like Nazi bacchanalia intended to intimidate both local population and the government. Indeed, the marchers demanded the status of national heroes for the wartime Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) notorious for its violent extermination of thousands of Jews and Poles.

Yet, one would wait in vain for the N-word to be mentioned by Western press. BBC coyly reported that: “nationalists demanded that MPs pass a law to recognize a World War Two nationalist group which opposed Soviet forces.” UPA, the organization responsible for the murder of thousands is presented as “the opposition to Soviet forces.” The BBC’s squeamishness is very typical of western coverage of Ukrainian violence: as long as any group has challenged the evils of Stalin’s bolshevism , their Nazi collaboration is to be ignored. It is this privileging of anti-communism at the expense of anything else that enables the press to insist that “There are no Nazis in Ukraine-- it is all the invention of Kremlin propaganda.”

The western media, never squeamish about pointing a finger at Russian nationalism, or decry Russia’s covert and overt attempts to interfere in Ukraine, becomes surprisingly timid when describing Ukraine’s turmoil. Of course, it will admit the growing pains of Ukraine’s pro-Western democratic turn, including the activity of violent groups or parties, like Right Sector, that flaunt Nazi paraphernalia and expound bizarre and racist notions. *But this acknowledgement is quickly modified by the insistence on the marginal nature of these groups. Rather than being marginal, these groups, however, constitute the tip of the ultra-nationalist iceberg that is going to crush the modern Ukraine*.

The nature of this iceberg is simple: Ukraine is rushing headlong to create a modern day fascist society. It might try to disguise itself as pro-European liberal democracy, as the country eager to resist Russian control or Soviet legacy, but behind this double dose of Ukrainian spinning and western Cold War narrative, lays a very menacing reality. It includes pervasive rhetoric focusing on the myth of heroic Ukraine that must be restored, its champions honored, and its enemies vanquished. *It also includes a forced imposition of such a myth upon the whole population of Ukraine resulting in the series of violent actions of genocidal character, be it the May 2 massacre in Odessa, or relentless shelling of civilians in the East of the country*.

What remains hidden in the plain view of recent Ukrainian politics is a highly recognizable pattern shared by numerous fascist regimes.








A school of current historians of fascism (Emilio Gentile, Roger Griffin, George Mause, Stanley Payne, and Robert Paxton) has established generic features of the fascist phenomenon. Fascism for these scholars does not necessarily imply its Nazi variant with anti-Semitism, yellow stars, and concentration camps. It is first and foremost a cultural phenomenon, a “cultural revolution in nationalist key” (Comparative Fascist Studies, Routledge, 2010: 114) as the result of which society embarks on a new mythic course. It “sacralizes earthly entity --the nation” (Gentile in Totalitarian Movements and Political Religions, 2004: 18); it re-imagines its past and articulates utopian future that remains out of reach only because some group serves as an obstacle. It also targets and utilizes the inexperience and alienation of youth by providing it with the sense of belonging, direction, and “destructive emotions against a hallucinatory enemy” (Griffin, Radical Right, 1999: 298). According to Payne’s A History of Fascism, 1914-1945, London, 1997: 487-95), in order for a country to embark on a fascist course, it has to exhibit a series of cultural, political, social, economic, and international elements. Majority of these elements are fully deployed in Ukraine: be it preexisting strong currents of nationalism; a comparatively new state; a political system that approximates liberal democracy but existed only for a single generation; economic crisis of dislocation or underdevelopment; politically neutralized military; fragmented or polarized party system, status humiliation (loss of Crimea) and the apparent danger from the left (cf. Self-proclaimed People’s Republics in eastern Ukraine). 

*In other words, cultural, political, and social pre-conditions of fascism have already crystalized in Ukraine*. In particular, it is worth stressing the following: the political vision that drives violent youth organizations like Right Sector and that is being embraced by more and more Ukrainians, is the myth of a strong unified Ukraine located both in the past and in the future. It includes the embrace of mythic champions of that vision, such as UPA leaders, Stepan Bandera and Roman Shukhevich, who are supposed to inspire Ukraine toward its glorious future, while it is the enemy, Russians in particular, who preclude Ukraine from reaching its mythical paradise. *During the last twenty years, the education in Ukraine, the teaching of history in particular, was organized as to drive home this simplistic mythology*.








The civil war in the East, coupled with the loss of Crimea, only exaggerated Ukraine’s utopian thinking. The mythic enemy (Russia) has shown its claws, highlighting the urgent need for the unified force of so called “svidomye” –a new and important Ukrainian term, that describes the in-crowd, politically conscious nationalists.

It is these "svidomye" who now constitute the backbone of Right Sector and other military organizations like voluntary National Guards, which are behind the most gruesome violence emanating from Ukraine. *Condoned by the media, politicians, and the army, these svidomye encounter little resistance. Furthermore, just a few days ago, the leader of National Guard, Stepan Poltorak, was appointed as the Ukrainian minister of defense, signifying the fact that it is ultra-nationalists that are in control of the army, and not the other way around*. 

*The current Ukrainian ideologues are well aware that the West would hardly tolerate purely ethnic hatred, so they either deny the violence inflicted upon the population not willing to share their utopian visions, or –when it becomes impossible--do their best to obfuscate it*. Kiev, in fact, found a very successful strategy of disguising its Russophobia as Sovietophobia, a brilliant move that guarantees the immediate support of Baltic and East Europeans countries, let alone the Cold Warriors of the West. Needless to say, practically all fascist movements of the twentieth century presented their genocidal violence as a political struggle against communism, bolshevism, or sovietism. The mainstream press, however, happy to detect rudiments of neo-Nazism in Russia, fails to recognize in Ukrainian rhetoric of anti-sovietism a camouflaged version of Nazi’s “Judeo-Bolshevism.” 

So while on the surface Ukrainian radicals attack Lenin sculptures, Stalin’s politics and left wing parties, what is seething underneath is hatred of all things Russian. (How else can one explain this ardor against Lenin or Stalin, whom nobody in Eastern Europe or Russia takes particularly seriously nowadays? Yet, equating Stalin’s brutal agrarian politics with the genocide against Ukrainians enables these ideologues to promote the myths of Ukrainian victimhood at the hands of its hated neighbor. Thus, we learn, as reported by Dmitri Kolesnik, that “Oleh Odnorozhenko, deputy commander of the Azov Battalion defines Ukrainian war as the conflict of ‘people with a European identity fighting with Sovietness.’” The very juxtaposition of such disparate concepts as ‘European’ and ‘Soviet,’ –skillfully implies that things Soviet are non-European and barbaric. Thus, the fight with Soviets becomes a civilizational rather than genocidal project. Just a few days ago, a member of Ukrainian parliament, Tamara Farion, in the speech commemorating the heroism of UPA, declared that “the ideals of WWII Ukrainian nationalists who resisted Moscow should become universal for Ukraine… *that everyone in Ukraine who lacks Ukrainian soul should be executed… *and that Moscow has to be erased, for remaining irredeemable black hole European security.”








Relying on western publications and translations, the western public cannot perceive the depth of venom and hostility that pervades Ukrainian political discourse, be it through the mass media, blogs, FB postings, or YouTube videos. Aleksei Sakhnin, Russian political dissident arrested by Putin, and obviously, no fan of “Kremlin’s propaganda,”-- was shocked by what he saw during his recent visit to Ukraine. For him, the Ukrainian situation resembled a powder keg ready to explode. The animosity that emanates from Ukraine is so strong, that it even expanded abroad, as can be witness by the attack on the photograph exhibition at the Chelsea gallery in NYC.

The legitimization of fascism, its entering into the mainstream under the pretext of war with Stalinism and its Soviet legacy – became the main ideology in Ukraine, resulting in what Ukrainian journalist, Dmitro Manuilskii, called “legitimization of the fascist discourse.” *In fact, such legitimization came into being, under the earlier Ukrainian president, Victor Yuschenko, with his radical attempts to re-introduce nationalistic myths into Ukrainian psyche*. This cultural shift generated a very articulate condemnation as early as 2008, when Ukrainian historians Georgii Kriuchkov and Dmitry Tabachnik published in Kharkov the collection of essays entitled Fascism in Ukraine: Threat or Reality. (Fascism v Ukraine: ugroza ili real’nost’.)

Whether Ukrainian mythic nationalism will result in some major genocide is unclear, but one can hardly doubt that the fascist discourse that took hold of Ukraine during the last twenty years will only get worse, fueled by depressed economy, destroyed industrial powerhouses in the east, and the local currency in the free fall. *Furthermore, the Ukrainian government is clearly dysfunctional; common people demand blood, there are fights in parliament, there are fights outside, there are lynching crowds who attack and beat up politicians.* The interior minister, Arsen Avakov, has appealed to the crowd through Facebook post (Sept. 30) and asked them not to resort to lynching since it can ruin Ukrainian reputation “in Europe and even in America.” To which some members of his audience, replied that since Interior ministry proved to be ineffective in dealing with “pro-Russian” side, they have to resort to violence instead. 

Avakov should not worry about US reaction to Ukrainian lawlessness, however. Beguiled by Ukrainian skillful spinning of their genocidal hatred in political terms, the American politicians prefer to concentrate on Russia and the need to challenge it. *Thus, despite numerous reports of rising ethnic tensions, despite the evidence of disturbing invocations of Nazism (see the articles by Alec Luhn, Max Blumenthal, or Stephen Cohen), the White House refuses to modify its policy.* In his recent speech at Harvard, Joe Biden insisted on the already familiar narrative that the events in Ukraine have to do with the US need to challenge Russia, while ignoring Ukrainian realities. For Biden’s Cold War mindset, sanctioning Russia into obedience appears to be the only goal: “But again, it was America’s leadership and the President of the United States insisting, oft times almost having to embarrass Europe to stand up and take economic hits to impose costs. And the results have been… the Russian economy teetering on the brink of recession... Putin has to make a choice. These asymmetrical advances on another country cannot be tolerated.” In short, Ukraine be damned, as long as we make Russia back off.








Biden demonstrates here a rather consistent pattern of American foreign policy: the fixation on a historical rival at the expense of the current mayhem. Think of Cambodia, for example. When the Vietnamese army decided to put an end to Khmer Rouge violence and invaded the country, US continued to condemn Vietnam and supported the Khmer Rouge regime. In the words of the historian Pierre Ryckmans, also known by his pen name of Simon Leys:

“After the fall of Saigon in 1975, Kissinger asked the foreign affairs minister of Thailand to convey to Pol Pot the friendly wishes of the American people, adding for his interlocutor’s benefit: ‘Of course, these people are murderous thugs, but this should not affect our good relations.’ The administration of Jimmy Carter – under the influence of Brzezinski, and notwithstanding the rhetorical emphasis which the president himself placed on human rights – pursued essentially the same line.”

*This description of the myopic US policy aimed at containing an imaginary enemy while ignoring the unfolding genocide seems to apply to the current Ukrainian crisis as well.* There is an improbably alliance created to contain the imaginary Russian threat; there is the American president, whose “rhetorical emphasis on human rights” brings him –as in the case of Jimmy Carter-- Nobel Peace Prize, and who disregards these very human rights in order to follow the pronouncements of the ubiquitous Brzezinski and other ideologues.








Of course, historical analogies hardly prove anything, so one hopes that Ukraine will fall short of genocidal record set by Cambodia. It is clear, nevertheless, that Ukraine looks more and more like a country ready to devour itself, while its western cheerleaders, continue lecturing the world on the need to contain Russia, while ignoring the Ebola of fascism that has so thoroughly infected Ukraine.

http://russia-insider.com/en/ukrain..._descent_fascism_and_how_west_turns_blind_eye


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

The article has a massive soviet apologist slant, basically saying that people should blame Stalin rather than the Soviet Union which is easy to say when he has not ripped apart your home with his troops (who where regular people)

The article also ignores that Fascism is not bad on its own, a nation can be fascist and still not go around killing people

In the early 1900s there where fascist parties all over Europe and the US

If your a nation in the 1920s and 30s who do you pattern yourself as?

The Western capitalist nations who are having massive problem due to a huge economic downturn, the communist nations that are absorbing everything near by and basically turning their annexed nations into slave states for resources, or the fascist nations that have had massive success and have basically reorganized and rebuilt their nations who had rebuilt their nation in lose faster than the nations who had won

If Hitler had not caused the Holocaust and showed the darkside of too much power Fascism would likely still be a valid political belief

Then you have to take in the fact that the Soviets were destroying the culture, resources, and lives of the nations they "liberated"

Some groups in Russia, normal everyday people trying to trying live their lives, were happier under the fucking Nazis becouse the Union was trying to destroy any "subversiveness" and ignoring other parts of the nation

Von Luck said in his autobio that some villages his men took over in Russia asked where the fucking Czars troops were

All the while the Soviets are screaming that Fascists are the enemy while at the same time destroying your land of fucking course you are going to side the with fascists, they are the main enemies of the group you fucking hate 

These nations never had any contract with the western democracies, all they knew was the Communist nations who are treating them like shit and the Fascist ones who were fighting them and its not hard to pick which one the average person would support

The cold war ended fairly recently in history and until that time all this hatred had time sit and simmer and now is breaking out of control 

This is happening because shit like Holodomor and the purges, made their time under the Nazi's (largely seen the most evil group in history) look like the good old days


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

stevefox1200 said:


> The article also ignores that Fascism is not bad on its own, a nation can be fascist and still not go around killing people


By its very definition fascism is bad any way one looks at it. The Webster Dictionary defines "fascism" as follows:

_fas·cism noun \ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-\ 
: a way of organizing a society in which a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people and in which people are not allowed to disagree with the government

: very harsh control or authority

1. often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition 

2. a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality
_
I suppose if you believe in a system of dictatorship which spews chauvinism and race hatred, and violently punishes anyone who disagrees then I can see your support for a fascist state. Hmm, that definition of fascism sounds just like what the Kiev junta has created in Ukraine.

- Mike


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Fascism got those definitions due to the very nations that adopted it being violent

The basic idea Mussolini had was a government based on the military hierarchy system 

A chain of command where superiors had absolute authority and everything would focus on improving the power of the nation 

the problem is most people who are willing to work for years to gain absolute authority have a few screws loose

It was supposed to cut down on the large amount of corruption and red tape that the governments of the time had as many had just come off a monarchy

The governments of the time was basically just bankers and land barons who had no political background doing whatever they wanted

Most had loyalties to companies in other nations which enraged the locals 

To compare it to Ukraine, the locals loathed that their leader who was supposed to represent them was more interested in being a Russian political figure than a Ukrainian one.

The only value Ukraine had was how much Russia was willing to give it based on how much the President was kissing Russia's ass

The problem is that to them, fascism seemed like the only option because it was the exact opposite of what the leader they disliked was doing but at the same time made them vulnerable to the hatred of who ever was in charge 

No one wakes up and thinks about how evil they are going to be today, Fascists honestly believe it is the best way to run their nation 

This situation happened because Russia treats its trade partners like Russian satellite states rather than other nations and their leaders are happy to go along with it to get shit that their nation could not even come close to producing while at the same time preventing themselves from growing 

Fascism happens when there is too many short term gains are chosen over any type of long term stability


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

stevefox1200 said:


> Fascism got those definitions due to the very nations that adopted it being violent
> 
> The basic idea Mussolini had was a government based on the military hierarchy system


It seems more like the system and ideology of fascism is responsible for encouraging the violence of the nations that adopted it. However, you are free to argue which came first - the chicken or the egg.

I see the Italian people as neither fascist, nor violent by nature. They were forced into war by a fascist system that forcibly suppressed any opposition. In the end the Italians showed what they thought of fascism and its leader in their country:








- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> It seems more like the system and ideology of fascism is responsible for encouraging the violence of the nations that adopted it. However, you are free to argue which came first - the chicken or the egg.
> 
> I see the Italian people as neither fascist, nor violent by nature. They were forced into war by a fascist system that forcibly suppressed any opposition. In the end the Italians showed what they thought of fascism and its leader in their country:
> 
> ...


Spain was fascist. It improved their economy and they weren't forced into the war.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Franco's fascist regime fit the typcial profile - authoritarianism, nationalism, national Catholicism, militarism, conservatism, anti-communism. This is very much what the Kiev junta looks like today.

After the victory of the Spanish fascists in 1936 there were over a quarter of a million dissenters in prison and half a million in exile. Many anti-fascist Spaniards were sent to Nazi German concentration camps. Over 200,000 people died as a result of political repression in the first years of the fascist regime.

Regarding the economy, the first decade of fascism was a complete economic failure. Under fascism Spain's economy was a mess until the late 1950s. 

Fearing for his own position of power, Franco was smart enough to keep his fascist nation out of WW II. Aside from that, I don't see what there is to admire about Spanish fascism.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Franco's fascist regime fit the typcial profile - authoritarianism, nationalism, national Catholicism, militarism, conservatism, anti-communism. This is very much what the Kiev junta looks like today.
> 
> After the victory of the Spanish fascists in 1936 there were over a quarter of a million dissenters in prison and half a million in exile. Many anti-fascist Spaniards were sent to Nazi German concentration camps. Over 200,000 people died as a result of political repression in the first years of the fascist regime.
> 
> ...


I never said I admired anything about it. I just pointed out the fact that they stayed out of the war.

Speaking of Italy, yes, the people showed what they thought about Mussolini because they could. In Soviet Union however, people were too afraid to even think something bad about Stalin.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_As I said in a previous post, the U.S. and E.U. sanctions against Russia are a blessing in disguise. The stupidity of the West is forcing Russia to become more self-sufficient and find new trading partners in Asia and South America.

Inevitably, in the short and medium term the ruble will suffer and there will be some economic hardship. However, the end result will be severing most major economic ties from nations who have as their long term goal the destruction of Russia and the subjugation of its people to the interests of Washington and Brussels.

More than two decades have passed since the dissolution of the USSR, and during that period the West has amply demonstrated its intentions regarding Russia. Washington never welcomed Russia into the western world community - just exploited a weak, demoralized Russia run by a drunken murderer who kow towed to U.S. dictates in the 1990s. As soon as a strong leader began to put Russia on its feet the attitude changed and a new Cold War was born.

Ten years down the road when Russia no longer has the need to sell natural gas to Europe, the U.S. will step in and sell their natural gas at much higher prices. I could be wrong, but this appears to me to be Washington's long term plan for its "allies" in the E.U. *With friends like this the E.U. doesn't need enemies!!!

*- Mike
_
'Putin's Revenge': Russia And China Try To End The Dominance Of The Dollar 

Business Insider 
By Mike Bird 
1 hour ago

REUTERS, 11/10: *Russia and China just agreed to a second major gas deal, worth slightly less than the $400 billion agreement reached earlier this year*, according to Bloomberg.

The details of the deal mean Russia will supply China with another 30 billion cubic metres of gas every year for the next three decades through the Altai pipeline, a proposed pipe transporting the gas from western Siberia to China. 

Earlier in the fall, Keun-Wook Paik at the Oxford Institute for Energy Studies said this kind of deal would be "Putin’s revenge," according to the Financial Times.

Many analysts see the move as evidence that Moscow is pivoting away from reliance on European customers and toward East Asia, where relatively rapid economic growth should prop up demand.

It's also a political move, as relations with the rest of Europe have become increasingly cold after Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and the tit-for-tat sanctions between the European Union, United States, and Russia. 

The value of the Russian rouble has collapsed recently as the price of oil has declined. Russia's economy is dependent on oil, so the currency fluctuates with the oil price. The price declines in turn threaten Russia's ability to meet its budget obligations and pay debt. In sum, the country faces an economic crisis if it can't find new demand for oil and currency .

*But the rouble is rallying against the dollar today. Here's the US currency dropping by nearly 3% against the rouble *after the central bank announced it would stop trying to defend the currency's collapse. 

*The China deal helps both Russia and China lessen their economic dependence on the West*. It also helps Russia get around the economic sanctions imposed by the West because of the Ukraine situation. The Moscow Times notes:

Curtailing the dollar's influence fits well with China's ambitions to increase the influence of the yuan and eventually turn it into a global reserve currency. With 32 percent of its $4 trillion foreign exchange reserves invested in US government debt, China wants to curb investment risks in dollar.

The quest to limit the dollar's dominance became more urgent for Moscow this year when US and European governments imposed sanctions on Russia over its support for separatist rebels in Ukraine.


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## Spanish Lariato (Jul 26, 2011)

The Manowarrior said:


> Spain was fascist. It improved their economy and they weren't forced into the war.


I hadn't read a barbarity like that in a long time. That statement only can be said by an ignorant or by a fascist and I hope that this case is the first one. Spain did enter the war. It didn't do it full force but they provided logistical support and assistance to the German Navy and submarines. They also give tungsten to Nazi Germany and the most important of all, do you know the "División Azul"?
The most flagrant lie of all is the improving of the economy. Spain suffered the worst chapter of his history. All improvements in education, social rights, women rights, agrarian reform, etc. were abolished and a criminal autarky was installed. It was not only the genocide after the National-Revolutionary War but the misery and decay installed in Spain like a terminal cancer and its putrefied roots extend to the present. Spain was the only country in Europe where fascism was not defeated and that is a bleeding wound in the progress of the state.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Spanish Lariato said:


> I hadn't read a barbarity like that in a long time. That statement only can be said by an ignorant or by a fascist and I hope that this case is the first one. Spain did enter the war. It didn't do it full force but they provided logistical support and assistance to the German Navy and submarines. They also give tungsten to Nazi Germany and the most important of all, do you know the "División Azul"?
> The most flagrant lie of all is the improving of the economy. Spain suffered the worst chapter of his history. All improvements in education, social rights, women rights, agrarian reform, etc. were abolished and a criminal autarky was installed. It was not only the genocide after the National-Revolutionary War but the misery and decay installed in Spain like a terminal cancer and its putrefied roots extend to the present. Spain was the only country in Europe where fascism was not defeated and that is a bleeding wound in the progress of the state.


Damn, you're right. Touche. It was Italy's economy I had been thinking of. Honestly, I don't really know that much about Spain's history, so I'm gonna trust you on this one.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_Since the "end" of the Cold War the United States has been building up toward the final Hot War - expansion of NATO, bombing nations, invading countries, engineering regime changes and coups, instigating wars, and now the creation of a missile system on Russia's borders that has nuclear first strike capability. - Mike 
_
'US missile defense aim – possibility of first nuke strike against Russia’








*U.S. Patriot missile system in Poland*

_William Engdahl is an award-winning geopolitical analyst and strategic risk consultant whose internationally best-selling books have been translated into thirteen foreign languages_.

Published time: November 10, 2014 14:50 

_The Cold War has never ended from the US side as their goal has always been to crack Russia, geopolitical analyst and author, F. William Engdahl, told RT, adding that the American anti-missile shield in Europe brings the world close to nuclear holocaust_.

*RT:* Mikhail Gorbachev is celebrated in the West for his role in ending the Cold War. But will the West listen to him now, when he speaks out against Washington's recent actions? 

*William Engdahl:* I don’t think Washington will ever listen to him. They went back on their pledge not to expand NATO to the East after we saw it agreed to by James Baker III, the Secretary of the State, and the negotiations for the peaceful transfer of East Germany back to Germany as a whole. The rematch by Gorbachev today: he has been conspicuously silent for the last 25 years since he was forced to leave office in Moscow. And I have always had the hunch that he was a genuine Russian patriot and he just had no occasion to speak out because he was vilified inside Russia. In fact he was a victim of what we now see as evidence that clearly indicates *there was a CIA coup d’état backing Boris Yeltsin to be the man of Washington with the task of dismantling the Russian economy entirely after 1990*. 

*RT:* Gorbachev's warning of a new Cold War is alarming. Is there any reason to believe Washington will heed the warnings and scale back its foreign policy ambitions? 

*WE:* I would certainly hope so. The behavior of the European Union, particularly of the Merkel government since the coup d’état in Kiev - *and it was nothing less than a coup d’état by the US State Department and the CIA *- has been one of the vassal state bending its knees to Washington on every critical issue or pressure. *I would hope that they will get a little bit of backbone in Berlin and in other countries in the EU, and take a European way rather than dutifully following every diktat from Washington as they have been doing*. 

*RT:* In dealing with Russia, how determined are European governments to act on their own terms without being influenced by their allies in Washington? 

*WE:* I wrote a book called Full Spectrum Dominance: Totalitarian Democracy in the New World Order that documents the fact that the Cold war for Washington never ended, not for a one nanosecond after the surrender of the Soviet Union and the dismantling of the Warsaw pact. NATO in fact has done the opposite: they have expanded right up to the borders of Russia in Bulgaria, in Poland, in Romania, the Czech Republic and so forth. *They put missile defense and anti-missile installations in those countries that are aimed directly at creating the possibility of an American first nuclear strike against Russia*. That definitely brings the world close to nuclear holocaust by miscalculation. So it is an extremely dangerous situation in the Cold War that from Washington's side never ended. *They have been pushing every step of the way to simply crack Russia and that hasn’t succeeded. Putin drew the line in the sand several times and that is one reason he is so despised by Washington - he doesn’t simply buckle under pressure, he defends Russian national interests*. I think that is commendable, more states should do that in the world today. 

The statements, views and opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of RT.

http://rt.com/op-edge/203891-europe-russia-relations-cold-war/


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

*Russian combat troops have entered Ukraine along with tanks, artillery and air defence systems, Nato commander says*










Nato officials have seen Russian military equipment and Russian combat troops entering Ukraine this week, its top commander says.

"Russian tanks, Russian artillery, Russian air defence systems and Russian combat troops" were sighted, US Gen Philip Breedlove said.

Russia's defence ministry denied that its troops were in eastern Ukraine to help pro-Russian separatists there.

However, the rebels have admitted being helped by "volunteers" from Russia.

Heavy artillery fire rocked the east Ukrainian city of Donetsk, the industrial hub held by pro-Russian separatist rebels, on Wednesday morning.

It was unclear whether the fire came from besieging government forces or the rebels themselves, or both.

There were also reports of fighting near the rebel-held city of Luhansk. One Ukrainian soldier was killed and another injured north of Luhansk, when rebels fired on government positions near the village of Schastya, Ukrainian security forces said.

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30025138


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

RT actually interviewed an author who wrote a book about the New World Order?

They also wrote an "THE END IS NIGH NUCLEAR WAR" article? 

Fucking wow

Also Russia's economy is tanking, with oil prices falling all their oil deals they made to be independent of the EU are now super overpriced and their trade partners don't buy or sell much of anything


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_It seems that every time the Kiev junta is preparing a military offensive in the DPR and LPR they and the West start off with accusations about Russia sending in troops. 

Personally, I wish Russia would send in its military full force and drive straight through to Kiev pushing these bastards back to Lviv and Ivano-Frankivsk where they come from. Of course, I'm sure there would be a comfortable refuge ready in Virginia outside of D.C. for the weasel Yatsiniuk, Poroshenko, and Yarosh and his Nazis.

- Mike_

MOSCOW DENIES ALLEGATIONS OF RUSSIAN MILITARY CROSSING INTO UKRAINE

MOSCOW, November 12 (RIA Novosti) – NATO allegations of Russian military convoys crossing the border with Ukraine are completely untrue, the Russian Defense Ministry said Wednesday.

Defense Ministry spokesman Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov said the rumors of alleged Russian military presence in Ukraine "are not backed by any facts.”

“We have already stopped paying attention to these baseless allegations,” he said...
http://www.sputniknews.com/military/20141112/1014658246.html


CROSSTALK: COLD WAR REPLAY


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

RIOTING IN WARSAW: MANY HATE THE EU AND EVERYONE BLAMES RUSSIA

*In November 2013 – February 2014, Warsaw showed official support for the violent actions of the “urban guerillas” on Maidan. However, Poland’s politicians are somewhat reluctant to let the participants of much less violent riots out of jail in their own capital*.


MOSCOW, November 12 (RIA Novosti) — The recent riots in Poland’s capital Warsaw, where 200 people were arrested and several dozen were wounded, are not being compared in the mainstream Western press with the violent clashes of the so-called Maidan revolution in neighboring Ukraine.* The Polish rioters are being presented as mere “hooligans”*. *However, the tactics and slogans of the so called “peaceful protesters” in Kiev and Warsaw are very similar*. In November 2013 – February 2014, Warsaw officially gave its 100 percent support to the violent actions of the “urban guerillas” on Maidan and blasted former president Viktor Yanukovich for arresting the perpetrators. *Oddly enough, Poland’s politicians are somewhat reluctant to let the participants of much less violent riots out of jail in their own capital*.

Even the obnoxious jokes of the participants in the two “protests” were similar. Last winter in Kiev, the rioters warmed themselves up by jumping and chanting “If you don’t jump, you’re a Russian!” In Warsaw, as the daily Gazeta Wyborcza reported, the “independence fans” were chanting “If you don’t jump, you’re a queer!” *Racism and hatred for minorities were quite visible in both Kiev and Warsaw, but the mainstream press of both Poland and the EU in general preferred to overlook them during the “pro-European” Maidan riots*.






In fact, the Independence Day riots in Poland revealed what a lot of Poles see as the REAL danger to their independence. It isn’t Russia, which the Polish mainstream press tries to demonize, but rather the EU. That was clear from the speech of Juliusz Dzerzawski, one of the march’s organizers, an alternative candidate for the position of mayor of Warsaw from the People’s Movement party. Here is what Dzerzawski had to say about Poland’s former prime minister Donald Tusk, who, thanks to his anti-Russian stance during 2014, was promoted to the position of the president of the European Council (replacing Herman van Rompuy): *“The man who did more than anyone else for Poland’s subjugation to Brussels – this man has got a sinecure in Brussels. He is now getting 12 thousand zlotys a month. For him, it was a nice deal, for Poland it wasn’t!” Dzerzawski said, addressing the crowd of 40 thousand people*.

What happened in Warsaw was a mixture of many Polish social phenomena, which the Western press prefers to keep quiet about. There was a Maidan-inspired element, there was crude Polish nationalism, but there was also frustration with the destructive subjugation of the Polish economy to European bureaucracy.

It is no coincidence that the anti-EU People’s Movement, which was one of the main organizers of the march and which was born out of the Independence March of 2012, is one of the fastest growing parties in Poland, appealing to both young and old people. Janusz Korwin-Mikke, the 72-year-old leader of the Union of Real Politics (one of the factions of the People’s Movement) was elected to the European Parliament as a MEP representing Poland. Korwin-Mikke’s success was the greatest sensation of this election and his anti-EU stance even led to some alarmist articles in the EU press (Korwin-Mikke accuses the EU’s leaders of having a totalitarian mentality and speaks out against the aggressive introduction of “gender politics” in Poland).

Something is certainly wrong with the EU’s policy towards Poland and especially the EU’s policy towards Ukraine, if violent actions like Tuesday’s march have become possible.

In a sense, Poland repeated the hypocritical mistakes the United Kingdom made in 2011, when British politicians praised the “Twitter revolution” in Egypt – only to see similar Twitter-organized riots in London in August 2011. When the looters were arrested in London, a lot of them said they did not understand why the British government is punishing them for something that it itself had praised in Egypt.

*Quite expectedly, Gazeta Wyborcza and other Polish mainstream media outlets found a “trace of Moscow” behind the Polish riots. “Polish Ultra-Right Nationalism Is Held on a Leash by the Kremlin Imperialism,” read the headline in Gazeta Wyborcza*.

*The statement of the Russian foreign ministry, which denounced the events in Warsaw as a sign of “softness to aggressive nationalism,” – such statements are never taken literally by the mainstream Polish media. The trend of accusing Russia of everything will continue.* As always, its consequence will be impunity for absurd anti-Russian statements and conspiracy theories (Zbigniew Girzynski, a Sejm legislator, just recently accused the Polish parliament of having a “pro-Putin majority,” and there are many similarly absurd examples). The second natural consequence stemming from this impunity will be the absence of reforms and lack of discussion on the main issue – Poland’s destructive dependence on the EU and the USA. After all, it is not Russia, but the EU which caps its member countries’ social spending.

The views expressed in this article are solely those of the author and do not reflect the official position of Sputnik. 

http://www.sputniknews.com/columnists/20141112/1014661730.html


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## MikeTO (May 17, 2013)

Don´t know if it was mentioned here, but did you read articles about that White Widow? That shit is fucked up.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

MikeTO said:


> Don´t know if it was mentioned here, but did you read articles about that White Widow? That shit is fucked up.


_The Kiev junta will exploit anyone and anything to defeat the freedom fighters of the Donetsk People's Republic and Lugansk People's Republic, and Washington and Brussels will support them. - Mike_


Dead or alive? Conflicting reports over ‘White Widow’ terrorist killing in Ukraine

Published time: November 13, 2014 09:29 










Russian Regnum news agency says Samantha Lewthwaite was shot dead fighting alongside Kiev forces. However, Kiev denies this.

Lewthwaite, 30, was allegedly gunned down two weeks ago near the eastern Ukrainian town of Debaltsevo. However, no independent confirmation was available at the time. 

*According to Regnum’s Aleksey Toporov, Lewthwaite recently fought alongside one of Kiev’s most infamous squads – the Aidar battalion, condemned by Amnesty International for its unmatched brutality in eastern Ukraine. 
*
*It was said to be “involved in widespread abuses, including abductions, unlawful detention, ill-treatment, theft, extortion, and possible executions.*” 

White Widow, the mastermind behind Kenya’s Westgate shopping mall massacre, was reportedly a sniper for the group. 

Her alleged killer was also a sniper – reportedly one who traveled from Russia as a volunteer to fight near Lugansk. 

Regnum is reporting that the Ukrainians have put a million-dollar bounty on his head. 

*A source at the UK's foreign office told ITV News that “we are aware of reports that Samantha Lewthwaite has been killed in Ukraine.”*


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

HANG YOUR HEADS IN SHAME WASHINGTON AND BRUSSELS! HERE IS THE WORK OF YOUR SCUMBAG PUPPET NAZIS IN KIEV! HERE'S WHAT YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOU BASTARDS! THE GREAT WESTERN CIVILIZATION - SPONSORS OF MURDERERING NAZIS!


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

RISE UP DONBAS!






Mama, well, how are things in the land of the steppes?
I heard that the enemy has come to our land,
And wants to destroy everyone as fast as possible.
Mama, every city here I have known for a long time since childhood,
Droozhkovka, Slavyansk, Kramatorsk are now on the news reels,
Donbas save your children!

Rise up Donbas, rise up my native land,
Rise up Donbas we will drive out the junta together.
Rise up Donbas, Mother Russia is with you,
Rise up Donbas, you will become the new Brest! (fortress)

Mama, how are the workers and miners doing?
While they were rioting on the Maidan 
Our people were working and feeding the slackers.
Mama, Slavyansk and the holy mountains will help them.
And they are our cities, and they will be ours forever.\
We will not give them up to the enemy! 


Rise up Donbas, let’s drive out the junta together,
Rise up Donbas, you will become the new Brest (fortress),
Rise up Donbas, rise up my native land,
Rise up Donbas, Mother Russia is with you.

Mama, life continues from Donetsk to Odessa,
An the cities turned green, trains transported coal,
Smokestacks belched smoke as always.
Mama, like in 1941 when demons came to us from the West,
They stand at every door, shoot women and mothers,
Burn people alive. 

Rise up Donbas, let’s drive out the junta together,
Rise up Donbas, you will be the new Brest (fortress),
Rise up Donbas, rise up my native land,
Mother Russia is with you!


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

The Russian economy will do fine. Unlike certain countries in double-figure trillions of debt who just print cash with no foundation beneath it, the Russians have next to no debt and their economy is backed up by natural gas, oil, gold reserves, platinum reserves etc. The Chinese are hoarding gold too and pumping oil out of Africa at an unimaginable rate. The Sino-Russian plan is to dump the dollar and let the plutocratic west go down in flames. About time, people are sick of us bombing defenceless shitholes. 

In fact I think Putin is showing too much restraint. Time to take the gloves off.

Start getting serious with your client states, Vladimir. Obliterate the Al-Nusra and ISIS terrorists, let the Russian Air Force and Spetsnaz clean up this western-sponsored scourge. Go ahead, man, western countries won't do shit. They'd piss their pants if a non-third world army confronted them. Or at least give Iran the okay to enter Syria and wipe out these rats.

If it ever came to a world war, Russia would win. Their jamming technology alone makes American carriers giant sicking ducks. Their air defenses are at least one generation ahead of every other country in the world, combined with the sheer landmass at their disposal if anyone would win a nuclear exchange it would be Russia. Europeans couldn't deal with the Russian military either. Germany has about 300 servicable battle tanks and its entire government is infiltrated by Russian intelligence.

The two countries that are going to rule the planet in the coming 21st century are Russia and China. Backed up by Brazil, Iran and India. The EU and UK will both disintegrate within 20 years and the Africans are already in bed with the Chinese.

Yet certain western countries throw shit in the face of those who they'll be depending on soon.


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

roadkill_ said:


> If it ever came to a world war, Russia would win.


Kind of like good old Josef marched to Helsinki in three weeks in 1939 huh?


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

You tried to argue that Holocaust was not a thing earlier 

INSTANT FAIL 

Russian currency is down like 60% in a single year


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

stevefox1200 said:


> You tried to argue that Holocaust was not a thing earlier
> 
> INSTANT FAIL


I've spent about 800 hours researching the holocaust. Over a nine year period.

And you?




> Russian currency is down like 60% in a single year


The global economy is in the shitter. For which Russia has been preparing for for years.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

I have researched it enough to know its a thing

I think you will find that most academia and historians agrees with me 

also a 30% currency loss in less than 6 months is more than just "bad economy" and Russian banks are getting rid of their loan restrictions to get people spending which leads to defaults out the ass


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> Kind of like good old Josef marched to Helsinki in three weeks in 1939 huh?


It was more like porky Poroshenko vowing that the Kiev junta's troops would march down the main street of Donetsk by August. Oops, my bad! He was correct:


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

stevefox1200 said:


> RT actually interviewed an author who wrote a book about the New World Order?


Their coverage during the Ukraine crisis (and the MH17 shooting) has been arrantly deplorable to say the least. It's actually fairly interesting that YouTube's most subscribed news channel attracts radical national fundamentalists, white supremacists, and conspiracy theorists. 

They've truly revealed their propagandic agenda these last few months. And, please, if anybody is going to respond to this post asserting "the Western mainstream media is no better" should just stop now. I _know_ of this. However, just because this is the case doesn't make Kremlin Today any better.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Despot said:


> Their coverage during the Ukraine crisis (and the MH17 shooting) has been arrantly deplorable to say the least. It's actually fairly interesting that YouTube's most subscribed news channel attracts radical national fundamentalists, white supremacists, and conspiracy theorists.
> 
> They've truly revealed their propagandic agenda these last few months. And, please, if anybody is going to respond to this post asserting "the Western mainstream media is no better" should just stop now. I _know_ of this. However, just because this is the case doesn't make Kremlin Today any better.


Every news source fills a "niche"

People think that non-mainstream and alternative news is more "honest" and saying "what people don't want you to know" but they are all really just telling you what you want to hear, no matter if it is anti-US, anti-Russia, conspiracy theories, thy end is nigh we all die, or racist focused 

in short if you think your news source is better than someone else your getting worked


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## Despot (Apr 6, 2014)

stevefox1200 said:


> Every news source fills a "niche"
> 
> People think that non-mainstream and alternative news is more "honest" and saying "what people don't want you to know" but they are all really just telling you what you want to hear, no matter if it is anti-US, anti-Russia, conspiracy theories, thy end is nigh we all die, or racist focused
> 
> in short if you think your news source is better than someone else your getting worked


Precisely. 

The reason why the alternative news may seem 'better' from an extremely superficial standpoint is because it propounds a narrative that is not covered in the mainstream. Unfortunately, some people discern that narrative as inherently more truthful and less fabricated than conventional narrative just because it seems _fresher_ or less commercialised in its presentation. 

For example, some RT viewers subscribe to the ludicrous notion which contends that Putin is a Christian hero fighting against the Jewish New World Order of the West. They also assert that Russia (and the other BRICS nations) are some type of freedom fighters, standing up against the zealously unprincipled Western world. The whole concept of Putin being the 'hero' and the Western world being the evil Jewish 'villains' is an utterly simplified, hate-filled, moronic assertion, and I can't help but just laugh excessively whenever it is brought up.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> Their coverage during the Ukraine crisis (and the MH17 shooting) has been arrantly deplorable to say the least. .


Why? Please elaborate on how RT has lied about events in Ukraine? 

How is reporting on the true nature of the Kiev junta "arrantly deplorable." How is it "arrantly deplorable" to report on events that the Western media refuses to cover because it goes against the agenda of Washington and Brussels?

How is it "arrantly deplorable" to ask why the Kiev junta has not turned over its air traffic control records on the day of the Malaysian shootdown? Why is it "arrantly deplorable" to explore another very likely scenario to the incident?




Despot said:


> And, please, if anybody is going to respond to this post asserting "the Western mainstream media is no better" should just stop now. I _know_ of this. .


It's good that you "know of this." So, why not attack the Western press for its one sided, bigoted reporting on Ukraine instead of just singling out the Russian press?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> .
> For example, some RT viewers subscribe to the ludicrous notion which contends that Putin is a Christian hero fighting against the Jewish New World Order of the West. They also assert that Russia (and the other BRICS nations) are some type of freedom fighters, standing up against the zealously unprincipled Western world. The whole concept of Putin being the 'hero' and the Western world being the evil Jewish 'villains' is an utterly simplified, hate-filled, moronic assertion, and I can't help but just laugh excessively whenever it is brought up.


The views to which some RT viewers subscribe are irrelevant to the question of whether or not RT is presenting factual news reports. More than "some" viewers of the Western news media are closet and open neo-Nazis, but that in itself is not the issue.

RT has never said that the Western world is the "evil Jewish villains." Those are your words that you are using to deflect from the topic. 

However, the western media has villified and demonized Putin to the point that the average American and person in the West believes that he is the devil incarnate. On the other hand, the Russian media has not done the same to Obama, Merkel, or even Poroshenko.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> So, *why not attack the Western press for its one sided, bigoted reporting on Ukraine* instead of just singling out the Russian press?


Because that is also what, the Russian news sources do, except instead of one side, they tell the other side. Can you really not see that or are you just trolling? Both sides are equally biased when it comes to reporting news about the other.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Because that is also what, the Russian news sources do, except instead of one side, they tell the other side. Can you really not see that or are you just trolling? Both sides are equally biased when it comes to reporting news about the other.


Trolling? Not at all. I am asking a question, as I asked in the other post - if the Western press is "equally biased" why don't you attack the Western press the same way you attack the Russian press and villify everything Russian???

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Trolling? Not at all. I am asking a question, as I asked in the other post - if the Western press is "equally biased" why don't you attack the Western press the same way you attack the Russian press and villify everything Russian???
> 
> - Mike


Because you are already doing it and I just want to restore the balance by pointing out the obvious (though not to everyone apparently). I don't want this thread to become one way bashing of the Western press for two reasons. First, it is as bad as the Russian press. Second, there is no discussion if everyone just agrees with each other.

And when specifically did I vilify everything Russian? I love Russia. Show where I said something bad about Russia and not its press or government.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> Because you are already doing it and I just want to restore the balance by pointing out the obvious (though not to everyone apparently). I don't want this thread to become one way bashing of the Western press for two reasons. First, it is as bad as the Russian press. Second, there is no discussion if everyone just agrees with each other.
> 
> And when specifically did I vilify everything Russian? I love Russia. Show where I said something bad about Russia and not its press or government.


According to your posts virtually everything Russia does is wrong. You just admitted that you don't like the Russian government and you don't like the Russian press, but you "love" Russia. Can you get any more hypocritical??? fpalm

The Western Ukrainian neo-Nazis are the lowest form of garbage on the planet, but at least they admit they hate Russia - something you ought to do the next time you are bad mouthing it.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> According to your posts virtually everything Russia does is wrong. You just admitted that you don't like the Russian government and you don't like the Russian press, but you "love" Russia. Can you get any more hypocritical??? fpalm
> 
> The Western Ukrainian neo-Nazis are the lowest form of garbage on the planet, but at least they admit they hate Russia - something you ought to do the next time you are bad mouthing it.
> 
> - Mike


You're still saying that I hate Russia as if you know better even after I said that I totally don't? fpalm Seriously? You're claiming to know me better than I do? OK, now I am 100% sure that you're trolling. I'm not gonna feed the troll.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Despot said:


> Precisely.
> 
> The reason why the alternative news may seem 'better' from an extremely superficial standpoint is because it propounds a narrative that is not covered in the mainstream. Unfortunately, some people discern that narrative as inherently more truthful and less fabricated than conventional narrative just because it seems _fresher_ or less commercialised in its presentation.
> .



That all sounds very good but, in fact, alternative news sources are reporting the news that the main stream western news media refuses to report due to their allegiance to the agendas of Washington and Brussels.

That is the reason they not only "seem" better, but *ARE* better!

Did the BBC, NY Times, CNN, etc. report on the latest shelling of civilians by the Ukrainian junta's forces in Horlivka??? I looked, but I couldn't find any reports.

I suppose that this video was staged and false, but only "seems" real because it is "less commercialized."


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Honestly I feel this path is bad for Russia and bad for the Russian people 

A nationalist push very rarely improves a nation and usually leads to problems because people start to ignore the bigger picture because "we are the best and fuck everyone else" but what hurts the rest of the world hurts you

Its 2014, you can't be "isolationist" and you can't ignore the rest of the world if you want to be a modern nation. We all have a spot in the world and we are all important.

They will get a short term boost in pride and power followed by a long term downturn and loss in standard of living when they have to reunite with the rest of the world 

When the cold war ended the everyday people were thrust into a world that they did not understand and did not understand them because they were cut off from the rest of the world till the wall came crashing down and now they had to interact 

It lead to wars and conflicts that rage till this day 

Also I got linked the Liveleak the other day, I had to wade through at least 60 different documentaries that "prove" that Russian or Ukraine are evil

both sides had dead civilians and crying children


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

stevefox1200 said:


> Honestly I feel this path is bad for Russia and bad for the Russian people
> 
> A nationalist push very rarely improves a nation and usually leads to problems because people start to ignore the bigger picture because "we are the best and fuck everyone else" but what hurts the rest of the world hurts you
> 
> ...


I agree that extreme nationalism is a negative and isolationism is not the best way to go. However, an analysis of what is going on today can only be done if we understand what happened after the dissolution of the Soviet Union in December of 1991.

Russia was promised fair treatment and a welcome to the Western world. In fact, what happened? A CIA subsidized coup that put a drunken murderer at the helm whose apparent assignment was to dismantle the Russian economy and drive it into poverty; NATO expansion right up to the borders of Russia and Belarus; creation of a missile shield on those same borders; demonization of the new leaders, i.e. Putin and Medvedyev, who managed to save the country from complete collapse by removing Yeltsin; arming Saakashvili and tacit approval of an invasion of South Ossetia which the U.S. knew would fail, but would provide more opportunity to demonize Putin and Russia.

The final straw was the U.S. supporting, if not engineering, the coup that violently overthrew the elected president of Ukraine and installed a right wing, fascist junta. In 2010 the U.S. along with the E.U. recognized the election of Viktor Yanukovich in a narrow victory over Yulya Tymoshenko and Viktor Yushchenko. When it seemed that Yanukovich wasn't going to play ball the West decided it was time to remove him via a U.S. backed regime change.

The present day revival of Russian nationalism is due more to the actions of the West than to anything that Putin has done. Turning to Asia and South America, and isolating itself from the West seems to be the best course of action. The only way the U.S. likes Russia is when it is on its knees, groveling with a leader like Yeltsin. 

Regarding nationalism, I believe that the West should be concerned more with the Frankenstein monster it has created in Kiev which is controlled by extreme nationalist and right wing elements. It's going to end badly with these people in charge. 

- Mike


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

https://time.com/3587656/russia-wikipedia/

Russia is creating its own Wikipedia fpalm

Putin has said that the internet is CIA controlled and the Russian government has started blocking sites that are critical of their government 

this is getting fucking weird 

I get annoyed by dumbass sites too but this is kind of "getting rid of subversive literatureish"


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

stevefox1200 said:


> https://time.com/3587656/russia-wikipedia/
> 
> Russia is creating its own Wikipedia fpalm
> 
> ...


This is the first I've heard of Russia creating its own version of Wikipedia. I don't think there's anything wrong with that in itself. However, banning the original Wikipedia or other anti-Russian websites is unnecessary and, probably, counterproductive. 

While the CIA may or may not be involved with it, Wikipedia does put an anti-Russian slant on political/historical information that it presents on both Soviet Russian and post-Soviet Russian topics. The creation of a well researched, well written Russian version of Wikipedia should be welcomed as a source of information that can be exploited in the very least for comparative research.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Judging by Putin's tone in his interview today with German TV, it looks like Russia may be getting ready to take some *real* action in Novorossiya if the West doesn't rein in its client state run by the present fascist junta in Kiev. One can only hope Russia just ends this by sending in its troops and driving the Western Ukrainian murderers back to Lviv and Ivano-Frankivsk. 

Below are some excerpts from the interview. The link to the full transcript is also listed below.

- Mike 

Interview to German TV channel ARD
November 17, 2014
http://eng.kremlin.ru/transcripts/23253

*EXCERPTS FROM THE PUTIN INTERVIEW*

“..Frankly speaking, we are very concerned about any possible ethnic cleansings and Ukraine ending up as a neo-Nazi state. *What are we supposed to think if people are bearing swastikas on their sleeves? Or what about the SS emblems that we see on the helmets of some military units now fighting in eastern Ukraine? *If it is a civilized state, where are the authorities looking? At least they could get rid of this uniform, they could make the nationalists remove these emblems...” 

“...Indeed, self-defense fighters, for example, were supposed to leave some of the towns they had surrounded, as yet they haven’t left. Do you know why not? I will tell you plainly, this is no secret: because the people fighting against the Ukrainian army say, *'These are our villages, we come from there. Our families and our loved ones live there. If we leave, nationalist battalions will come and kill everyone. We will not leave, you can kill us yourselves...'*” 

“...That is why we have fears that it may all end up this way. If it happens it would be a catastrophe for Ukraine and Ukrainian people...” 

“...You know, when someone tells us that we have some special opportunities to solve this or that crisis it always troubles and alarms me...I always begin to suspect that there is an intention to pass on the responsibility to us and to make us pay for something. We do not want that. Ukraine is an independent, free and sovereign state...” 

“...There is just one thing that I always pay attention to. We are told again and again: pro-Russian separatists must do this and this, you must influence them in this way, you must act in that way. I have always asked them: *'What have you done to influence your clients in Kiev? What have you done? Or do you only support Russophobic sentiments?'*”

“...The issue is that we can’t have a one-sided view of the problem. Today there is fighting in eastern Ukraine. The Ukrainian central authorities have sent the armed forces there and they even use ballistic missiles. *Does anybody speak about it? Not a single word.* And what does it mean? What does it tell us? *This points to the fact, that you want the Ukrainian central authorities to annihilate everyone there*, all of their political foes and opponents. Is that what you want? We certainly don’t. *And we won't let it happen...”*


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## Carpe-Diem (Feb 24, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> One can only hope Russia just ends this by sending in its troops and driving the Western Ukrainian murderers back to Lviv and Ivano-Frankivsk.


:cool2

Brah, what's the matter with you? Why are you espousing foreign intervention? Even if it is morally right, you know it'll create a shit storm that will end up costing more lives, brah. The West won't just let Russia invade Ukraine without imposing more ruthless sanctions or even getting involved themselves.

It's just not the right thing to do. More people will die and there will be even be more tension in the international community. 

Besides, if anyone believes Russia (or the Kremlin) are seriously concerned for the welfare of normal, ordinary citizens of their country, let alone another, then you're kidding yourself, brah. The elite of any state have no desire to protect the individuals of any country, most notably the US. 

Nah, brah, foreign intervention isn't the right thing to pursue.


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## Carpe-Diem (Feb 24, 2014)

So, brahs, since we're talking about Russia and how messed up they were during the 90s, allow me to post a small excerpt from an essay I wrote about a year ago. It was about communist reform in post-communist states. I think this is a fairly impartial and objective way of looking at it. 



> *Russia and communist reform*
> 
> It was following the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991 where Russia, for the first time in its political history, advanced to a period of democratic reform (Nature 1993, p. 773). After enduring under a despotic and oppressive communist regime for seventy five years, Russia, as Lloyd (1993, p. 147) states, had 'signs of hope', where democracy was plausible, and social power, for perhaps the first time, was vested in the people rather than in a commanding government. The collapse of the USSR and the subsequent independence of various nations, including Russia, was seen as a towering 'social experiment' (Semenova 2011, p. 908) in the global political community. This was a time of vast systematic reform, as preceding communist governments, mostly tyrannous in nature, went through an extensive chapter of democratic transparency. This transition from authoritarianism to democracy was seen, at the time, as an inexorable force, particularly at the end of the Cold War. As Fukyama (1989, p. 1) describes in his seminal text The End of History?, Western liberal democracy was the ultimate ideological triumph, and all countries would eventually espouse these principles as the years progressed. For Russia, the time had come to ameliorate its communist system into a democratic one. The 1990s, however, marked a period of severe instability for the Russian Federation. As Borowy (2011, p. 1489) notes, Boris Yeltsin's implementation of 'shock therapy', the rapid economic shift from state-centralised to socialism to capitalism, had an 'corrosive' impact on the state, leaving it into disarray and arrant turmoil. This time of immense privatisation in Russia, considered to be the 'largest privatisation project ever undertaken' (Carol & Pitt-Watson 2013, p. 7), was completely mismanaged, as the state's entire economic system was exploited by a selective group of oligarchs who went on to operate a large deal of Russia's wealth, creating an immense level of inequity in the process (O'Neil, et al. 2013, p. 316). With this privatisation came great disorder.
> 
> ...




I went on to discuss China, too. If anyone wants the sources to the authors I linked, just let me know, brah.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Carpe-Diem said:


> :cool2
> 
> Brah, what's the matter with you? Why are you espousing foreign intervention? Even if it is morally right, you know it'll create a shit storm that will end up costing more lives, brah. The West won't just let Russia invade Ukraine without imposing more ruthless sanctions or even getting involved themselves.
> 
> ...


So, Russia should just sit back and let the Kiev junta's punitive battalions murder and pillage in the DPR and LPR??? And, after the genocide in the east is completed Moscow should just shrug its shoulders and let NATO build bases in Ukraine??? 

Sorry, those are not options. The genocide of the people in Donetsk and Lugansk has to be stopped and Washington's fascist puppet government in Kiev has to be driven out. Equally important is to stop the eastward expansion of NATO. Not one step further east! 

They have given us a glimpse of what is to come by burning people alive in Odessa who disagree with the junta's agenda, banning the two largest political parties in the country, reestablishing WW II Nazi heroes, beating and terrorizing independent politicians, government officials, and news reporters who disagree with the Kiev junta's agenda, etc. The Kiev junta is on its way to establishing a neo-Nazi state in Ukraine. 

The demonization of Putin and Russia has been well orchestrated in the western news media. However, Putin and Russia are not responsible for what is happening. It was the U.S. engineered coup that violently overthrew the ELECTED president and installed a right wing, ultra-nationalist junta that is responsible.

Regarding sanctions, Russia can survive. As I have said previously, this may be the perfect opportunity to begin to cut economic ties and dependence on western trade. The economic union of Russia, Kazakhstan, Belarus, and Armenia along with ever increasing economic cooperation with China will eventually replace Western Europe. The *second* $400 billion natural gas deal with China was just signed the other day. Russia must look to Asia and South America. The West has only one goal - to dominate Russia or destroy her. With friends like that you don't need enemies!

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Carpe-Diem said:


> So, brahs, since we're talking about Russia and how messed up they were during the 90s, allow me to post a small excerpt from an essay I wrote about a year ago. It was about communist reform in post-communist states. I think this is a fairly impartial and objective way of looking at it.


Your essay is well written, but is based solely on the Western version of events that surrounded the dissolution of the Soviet Union. There are legitimate facts in the paper, but the obfuscation of certain events and ommissions are evident to someone who lived in Moscow during this time. 

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that you are a liar or a propagandist for the west. The problem is that since your paper is based on Western, in particular American, sources there is no way it can possibly present the true picture of what happened.

Below I just commented on a couple of points. It's just the tip of the iceberg, but your essay is too long to get into in its entiriety here. 

Just as an FYI, I lived in Moscow from 1990-1996. From 1988 to 1990 I traveled back and forth from NYC to Moscow on almost a weekly basis. I saw the events you attempt to describe first hand. 

*Carpe-Diem wrote:*
“…social power, for perhaps the first time, was vested in the people rather than in a commanding government…”

*My reply:*
At the behest of President Gorbachev in the spring of 1991 there was a nationwide referendum held where the peoples of the Soviet Union were asked, “Should the USSR be dissolved?” *75% of the total population said “NO.”* Except for the Moldavian SSR, every constituent republic voted to retain the USSR. What surprised me was that the three Baltic SSRs voted to retain the USSR by a small margin.

*The will of the people was totally ignored*, and literally six months later Yeltsin, who had taken power by machinations most believe were orchestrated by the CIA, led the charge to dissolve the USSR. Gorbachev was out, Yeltsin was in, and the Soviet Union was dissolved illegally by the unholy trinity of Yeltsin (Russia), Kravchuk (Ukraine), and Shushkevich (Byelorussia) on December 25, 1991.

So much for the "social power being vested in the people!"


*Carpe-Diem wrote:*
“…In 1993, Russia had a constitutional crisis, where Yeltsin vested more power in the executive and less in the legislature and judiciary, resulting in vehement disapproval and even the possibilities of a coup d'etat (Cox 2013, p. 182)…”

*My reply:*
It’s interesting how you don’t explain how this “constitutional crisis” was resolved. Since I was there and saw it with my own eyes, let me enlighten you.

Yeltsin felt the duly elected Duma, i.e. Russian Parliament, was blocking his reforms. So, in the democratic spirit of the West he surrounded the House of the Soviets (Councils)/Дом Советов with interior troops, announced to the delegates that their parliament was dissolved, and that they should leave. The parliamentarians refused to abandon the building and continued to work.

Literally thousands of people, *including yours truly*, descended upon the parliament building, surrounded it, and created a human barrier to prevent the interior troops from entering and forcing out the delegates at gunpoint. The people brought food and drink to the delegates who now were living in the parliament building. If they left they knew they would not be allowed back in and, possibly, arrested.

This went on for days and finally Yeltsin ordered all power and utilities cut off in the building in an attempt to force out the elected parliamentarians.

While this was dragging on people from across the former Soviet Union were descending upon Moscow, arming themselves, and going to the “Dom Sovyetov” to defend the Duma. They came from Siberia, Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova, etc. Under the leadership of Alexander Rutskoi they now made the parliament building into an armed fortress *in defense of true democracy, NOT the Western hypocrisy of Yeltsin who was backed by Washington*.

The Western press did its duty and reported the “October Events” (Октябрьские события) as they were called, according to the agenda of Washington. *Yeltsin was lauded as a defender of democracy, while the real defenders of democracy were decried as nationalist rebels and demonized in the Western press*.

The Russian Army had pledged to stay out of politics and not take sides. Well, when I got up to go to work one morning at the end of November or first day of October, I almost shit when I saw tanks and military trucks rumbling down Prospekt Vernadskovo/Проспект вернадского heading toward the city center. We lived on Prospekt Vernadskovo in the southwest of Moscow where the city line ended – near metro Yugo-zapadnaya/метро юго-западная. Yeltsin paid off a few generals, and so much for military neutrality!

The Duma was bombed into oblivion. Many defenders fighting with Rutskoi were not allowed to surrender, but were shot dead with hands upraised coming down from the burning upper floors of the building. The bodies were stuffed down the elevator shafts and retrieved later. The next few nights the crematoriums on the outskirts of Moscow could be seen working overtime burning the victims of Yeltsin and his Washington backers.

- Mike


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> What surprised me was that the three Baltic SSRs voted to retain the USSR by a small margin.


It should be noted, though, that Estonia held an independence referendum two weeks prior to that where over 75% voted to re-establish the independent republic. And in this referendum 1.1 million people voted as opposed to the some 300 000 Estonians who voted in the one you're referencing.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> It should be noted, though, that Estonia held an independence referendum two weeks prior to that where over 75% voted to re-establish the independent republic. And in this referendum 1.1 million people voted as opposed to the some 300 000 Estonians who voted in the one you're referencing.


Given the sentiment in the Baltic states that is probably a correct figure. I wouldn't argue with it.

However, the overall nationwide numbers were overwhelmingly for the preservation of the Soviet Union.

There was a section in the Soviet Constitution that outlined the procedure for a SSR to secede from the union. If that had been followed SSRs like the three Baltic states could have calmly left and the other SSRs could have remained in the union.

Unfortunately, between Yeltsin's machinations and violence, U.S. interference, and internal chaos that didn't come to pass.

- Mike


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

It was more than a "Washington conspiracy" that caused the USSR to collapse

Its not like it was going strong and then one guy fucked it up 

With the years of economic failures, military focus for war that never happened, constant government blunders and the rise in local nationalism it was going to fall apart either way

It did not help that the expanded media showed that the US was not full of jackbooted thugs who what to kill Russians for fun and rape their wives. Its hard to fight a war when no one wants to fight it


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## Carpe-Diem (Feb 24, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> So, Russia should just sit back and let the Kiev junta's punitive battalions murder and pillage in the DPR and LPR??? And, after the genocide in the east is completed Moscow should just shrug its shoulders and let NATO build bases in Ukraine???
> 
> Sorry, those are not options. The genocide of the people in Donetsk and Lugansk has to be stopped and Washington's fascist puppet government in Kiev has to be driven out. Equally important is to stop the eastward expansion of NATO. Not one step further east!
> 
> ...


Brah, even though international bodies are largely Westernised in their systematic workings, it is still apposite for Russia to go through them if they want the crisis in Eastern Ukraine solved. Invading a country with your military is just juvenile and anarchical, brah, and your post gives the implication that the Russian elite actually care for the welfare of these people. And that's just a fallacy, brah. If Russia invades, then yeah, it'll be purely for geo-strategic reasons. They understand that NATO's expansionist tendencies will manifest itself in Ukraine, but Russia will invade on the pretext that they're protecting their own geopolitical interests. 

It's just like Crimea, brah. The Kremlin didn't simply decide to annex it because they cared for the people of the region or anything. It was all about protecting their naval fleet. And that's why Putin snatched it as quickly as he did. He wants Eastern Ukraine next so NATO won't literally be on Russia's borders. You can see the political logic, brah, but espousing a foreign intervention which will inevitably lead to more chaos, disorder, and bloodshed ain't sittin' straight with me. Things are very bad now, but they'll even get worse. Nah, brah, what international appeals have Russia made? What human right violations reports have they postulated to the international community that substantiates these claims? I believe they've submitted a few human right cases to international bodies, but nothing has resulted from them. Heck, even politically neutral international human right violation bodies have conducted their own investigations into the 'genocidal acts' of Eastern Ukraine, and you haven't really heard back from them. 

And yeah, the West want Russia under their belt. Of course they do, brah - they're an energy superpower, a country with prodigious land mass, a nuclear weapon state, and geographically, so instrumental to the political infrastructure of Europe, Western Asia and Eurasia in general. Who *wouldn't* want Russia?!! The US have had ruthlessly hegemonic tendencies ever since the post-war era, brah, and it's not stopping now. And if Russia was leading this unipolar world, brah, you can also be sure that they'd want the US on a string.

Also, brah, I wouldn't blame this all on the US even though they have a propensity to stuff things up. Don't forget, this radical uprising happened once that dickhead former Ukrainian President rejected that EU deal. This sparked vehement anger in the West of Ukraine, and the rest is history from there, brah.

Although I have my suspicions. Remember the Ukraine riots stayed pretty quiet after those frantic couple of weeks in December of 2013? And then they started up again. But it just so happened to be in Sochi, where all eyes were on Russia. Pretty trippy, brah. :avit:

In regards to the essay, brah, I actually opted for some Eastern European sources, so it's not as Western-centric as you'd think. I can link you to the texts/journal articles if you like. Also, my essay was a brief summation of post-communist Russia - I didn't have the time nor the thematic motivation to expand on the constitutional crisis.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*Carpe-diem wrote:*
"Invading a country with your military is just juvenile and anarchical (*sic*), brah..."

*My reply:*
In that case, the United States is one of the most juvenile and *anarchic* countries in the world! 

On the other hand, Russia has held back sending in troops en masse into the DPR and LPR even though it has a perfect international legal precedent to do so based on the UN decision regarding Kosovo and the alleged persecution of minorities there.


*Carpe-Diem wrote:*
"If Russia invades, then yeah, it'll be purely for geo-strategic reasons. They understand that NATO's expansionist tendencies will manifest itself in Ukraine..."

*My reply:*
The U.S. has invaded countries and initiated regime changes for far less. Russia has the perfect right to guarantee its borders against further NATO encroachment. This whole situation is precisely because of NATO's "expansionist tendencies." Since 1992 NATO has tripled in size and moved right to the borders of Belarus and Russia. 


*Carpe-Diem wrote:*
You can see the political logic, brah, but espousing a foreign intervention which will inevitably lead to more chaos, disorder, and bloodshed ain't sittin' straight with me. Things are very bad now, but they'll even get worse.

*My reply:*
A Russian invasion of Ukraine may not sit right with you, but these are not your people suffering under the heel of the fascist Kiev junta. A mass movement of Russian troops would be in Kiev within a week and crush the junta with minimal casualties. Order would be restored very quickly, because the U.S. and NATO wouldn't do a thing.

On the other hand, letting this situation continue is intolerable. In addition to causing the suffering of millions of people it keeps the possibility of international escalation alive.


*Carpe-Diem wrote:*
Nah, brah, what international appeals have Russia made? What human right violations reports have they postulated to the international community that substantiates these claims? 

*My reply:*
The Kiev junta just suspended the European Convention on Human Rights a few days ago. Below are just a few articles on the atrocities committed by Washington's client that the West ignores.

http://www.thenation.com/article/180466/silence-american-hawks-about-kievs-atrocities

http://www.globalresearch.ca/kiev-r...u-are-killing-children-video-evidence/5387142

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/08/14/huma-a14.html

http://www.globalresearch.ca/nazi-n...raine-but-no-war-crimes-tribunals-why/5413150

http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voices.php/2014/10/22/title-84

There are plenty more articles on the atrocities committed by the Kiev junta and ignored by the U.S. and the West. However, you get the drift.


*Carpe-Diem wrote:*
"And yeah, the West want Russia under their belt. Of course they do, brah ...The US have had ruthlessly hegemonic tendencies ever since the post-war era, brah, and it's not stopping now..."

*My reply:*
So, Russia should just bend over and take??? That's not going to happen, so let's get real. 

Indeed, the U.S. has been ruthless in the creation of its hegemony. However, Washington's empire building ends here. Giving up Ukraine to the U.S. and NATO is not an option. The line has been drawn!


*Carpe-Diem wrote:*
Don't forget, this radical uprising happened once that dickhead former Ukrainian President rejected that EU deal.

*My reply:*
This has very little to do with Yanukovich putting off the EU deal. The EU deal was an excuse that the West used to instigate a revolution. What was the hurry? In less than 12 months there was a scheduled presidential election. The problem was that the Western Ukrainians and their Western benefactors knew that they didn't have the votes to win. It would be close, like in the last election, but no cigar.

And, speaking of "dickheads," pro-west presidents Kuchma and Yushchenko, not to mention pro-west Prime Minister Tymoshenko, were just as big "dickheads" and even bigger thieves than Yanukovich. For the last two decades Ukraine has been run by unabashed crooked oligarchs and their lackeys. Of all the post-Soviet republics Ukraine is probably in the worst economic shape due to oligarchs literally pillaging the country and bleeding it dry. 

Yes, Yanukovich was a crooked oligarch. But, his dishonesty was not the cause of the coup since he was no worse than his predecessors. It was just an excuse exploited by the U.S. and its Western Ukrainian neo-Nazi clients.


*Carpe-Diem wrote:*
Although I have my suspicions. Remember the Ukraine riots stayed pretty quiet after those frantic couple of weeks in December of 2013? And then they started up again. But it just so happened to be in Sochi, where all eyes were on Russia. Pretty trippy, brah.

*My reply:*
I don't have a clue as to what you are trying to say here.


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## Carpe-Diem (Feb 24, 2014)

> In that case, the United States is one of the most juvenile and anarchic countries in the world!


Where and when did I say otherwise, brah?



> Russia has the perfect right to guarantee its borders against further NATO encroachment. This whole situation is precisely because of NATO's "expansionist tendencies." Since 1992 NATO has tripled in size and moved right to the borders of Belarus and Russia.


I know of this. But simply saying it's the country's 'perfect right' is, yes, an accurate, but ultimately futile analysis. One must analyse the dynamics of the international world order and question more, brah. To what extent is it their right to protect their borders? A foreign intervention into another state? Regional warfare? If so, what type of warfare are we seeing? Are you saying Russia is allowed to invade all of their neighbouring countries on the pretext of protecting itself from NATO expansion? I'm not saying you're right or wrong, brah, but one must question more before making such bold statements. 



> A Russian invasion of Ukraine may not sit right with you, but these are not your people suffering under the heel of the fascist Kiev junta.


And the Russian government are not suffering under the heel of a 'fascist Kiev junta' either, brah. In fact, what gives them the philosophical political *WEIGHT* to invade another state, irrespective of its moral legitimacy? Is this junta in Ukraine threatening to invade Russia and spawn disorder in the Kremlin, brah? I don't think so. Again, brah, I am not saying if you're right or wrong, but I just want to get to the philosophical merits of your overall argument. 



> A mass movement of Russian troops would be in Kiev within a week and crush the junta with minimal casualties. Order would be restored very quickly, because the U.S. and NATO wouldn't do a thing.


You're saying this with freakish confidence, brah. How do you know this for sure? You work for the Kremlin or something? Yeah, the US and NATO probably won't do a thing, but the political and economic repercussions could be vast in the future. Again, there is nothing inherently wrong with espousing this foreign intervention, but what gives Russia the *right*? NATO expansion? Perhaps. 



> The Kiev junta just suspended the European Convention on Human Rights a few days ago.


I'm aware of this, brah, but I'm wondering why Russia aren't doing more on the international stage. A bunch of commentary from the Kremlin isn't going to help. It seems to me they're not interested in the junta, brah, because they're not interested in the welfare of these people. 

Answer me this - if Eastern Ukraine had an oppressive *pro-Russian* dictatorship, would you, too, support intervention? Let's say all of Ukraine were free from NATO but under a ruthlessly tyrannical regime. And let's say the same genocidal acts were occurring like they supposedly are now. What would _you_ do? 



> So, Russia should just bend over and take??? That's not going to happen, so let's get real.
> 
> Indeed, the U.S. has been ruthless in the creation of its hegemony. However, Washington's empire building ends here. Giving up Ukraine to the U.S. and NATO is not an option. The line has been drawn!


I can see you are very emotionally invested in this, brah. I merely explicated on why any superpower in a unipolar world would want Russia. And I'm right. You're making this sound like a wrestling feud, brah. 



> This has very little to do with Yanukovich putting off the EU deal. The EU deal was an excuse that the West used to instigate a revolution.


Really, brah? Is this just an politically-fuelled contention or do you have facts to back it up?



> I don't have a clue as to what you are trying to say here.


In many respects, it does feel like an engineered coup, so I am supporting you here. Things went sour in December of 2013 after the EU trade pact deal was declined and then things went back to quiet during Christmas and the New Year. Things only started up again *DURING SOCHI*, where all the eyes were on Russia. During this period, the Ukrainian President was exiled and a coup occurred. Pretty good timing, is it? Want to instigate a coup? Do it when the whole world is focusing on Russia and Sochi so they can't do anything. Interesting, eh, brah?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*Carpe-Diem wrote:*
I know of this. But simply saying it's the country's 'perfect right' is, yes, an accurate, but ultimately futile analysis. One must analyse the dynamics of the international world order and question more, brah.

*My reply:*
We can analyze this to death, but we are dealing with the reality of an illegal regime invading and causing the death and destruction of the people in the DPR and the LPR. 


*Carpe-Diem wrote:*
In fact, what gives them the philosophical political *WEIGHT* to invade another state, irrespective of its moral legitimacy? Is this junta in Ukraine threatening to invade Russia and spawn disorder in the Kremlin, brah? I don't think so. Again, brah, I am not saying if you're right or wrong, but I just want to get to the philosophical merits of your overall argument. 

*My reply:*
The enemy is *NOT* philosophizing. The bloody coup was engineered and supported without the slightest bit of consideration of any philosophical ramifications. Russia has shown great restraint. However, if it sits back and ponders too long on whether or not there is sufficient "philosophical political weight" to invade the Russian people will wake up one morning with NATO bases and nukes aimed at them from Ukraine's eastern borders. Ukraine, as a client state of the West and future member of NATO, is most definitely a threat to Russia's security.

From a philosphical/moral point of view, once the U.S. backed coup overthrew the *ELECTED* government by force and trashed the Ukrainian Constitution *the regions no longer had a moral, nor legal obligation to be loyal to the junta that took the place of the elected government*. At that point each region had the choice to remain as part of Ukraine under the new Kiev junta, secede and form its own nation, or secede and become part of another nation, i.e. Russia.

The people of Crimea voted in a referendum to secede from Ukraine and join Russia. The people of the area that is now the Donetsk People's Republic and Lugansk People's Republic voted to secede from Ukraine and form the confederation called Novorossiya and remain an independent state. The people of the regions of Odessa, Kherson, Mikolayev, Zaporozhia, Dnepropetrovsk, Lugansk, and Kharkov have expressed desire to secede, but have been terrorized into submission by force, including Kiev junta thugs burning people alive in Odessa. 


*Carpe-Diem wrote:*
Answer me this - if Eastern Ukraine had an oppressive *pro-Russian* dictatorship, would you, too, support intervention? Let's say all of Ukraine were free from NATO but under a ruthlessly tyrannical regime. And let's say the same genocidal acts were occurring like they supposedly are now. What would _you_ do?

*My reply:*
What would be the difference if Ukraine were free from NATO, but was undergoing a genocide as is now being perpetrated by the Kiev junta on the DPR and LPR??? Genocide is genocide, regardless of who commits it! 

However, that's not the case and is a far fetched deflection that takes attention away from the real genocide that is going on as we speak. 


*Carpe-Diem wrote:*
In many respects, it does feel like an engineered coup, so I am supporting you here. Things went sour in December of 2013 after the EU trade pact deal was declined and then things went back to quiet during Christmas and the New Year. Things only started up again *DURING SOCHI*, where all the eyes were on Russia. During this period, the Ukrainian President was exiled and a coup occurred. Pretty good timing, is it? Want to instigate a coup? Do it when the whole world is focusing on Russia and Sochi so they can't do anything. Interesting, eh, brah?

*My reply:*
OK. Gotchya!


- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Dutch investigation into the Malaysian Airlines tragedy gets more bizzare and incomprehensible. It has just come out that if Ukraine doesn't like the findings it can block them from being made public. What do you say to something like this??? :shrug

Of course, the main stream Western media has not reported this development, so I am forced to cite an article by RT. 

- Mike


Dutch government refuses to reveal ‘secret deal’ into MH17 crash probe

Published time: November 20, 2014 12:41

The Dutch government has refused to reveal details of a secret pact between members of the Joint Investigation Team examining the downed Flight MH17. *If the participants, including Ukraine, don’t want information to be released, it will be kept secret*.

The respected Dutch publication Elsevier made a request to the Dutch Ministry of Security and Justice under the Freedom of Information Act to disclose the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) agreement, along with 16 other documents. The JIT consists of four countries - the Netherlands, Belgium, Australia and Ukraine - who are carrying out an investigation into the MH17 disaster, but not Malaysia. Malaysian Airlines, who operated the flight, has been criticized for flying through a war zone. 

Part of the agreement between the four countries and the Dutch Public Prosecution Service, ensures that all these parties have the right to secrecy. *This means that if any of the countries involved believe that some of the evidence may be damaging to them, they have the right to keep this secret*. 

“Of course [it is] an incredible situation: *how can Ukraine, one of the two suspected parties, ever be offered such an agreement?” Dutch citizen Jan Fluitketel wrote in the newspaper Malaysia Today*. 

Despite the air crash taking place on July 17 in Eastern Ukraine, very little information has been released about any potential causes. However, rather than give the public a little insight into the investigation, the Dutch Ministry of Security and Justice is more worried about saving face among the members of the investigation. 

"I believe that this interest [international relations] is of greater importance than making the information public, as it is a unique investigation into an extremely serious event," the Ministry added, according to Elsevier. 

Other reasons given for the request being denied included protecting investigation techniques and tactics as well as naming the names of officials who are taking part in the investigation. The Ministry said it would be a breach of privacy if they were revealed. “If the information was to be released then sensitive information would be passed between states and organizations, which would perhaps they would be less likely to share such information in the future,” said the Ministry of Security and Justice. 

Dutch MP Pieter Omtzigt, who is a member of the Christian Democratic Party, has made several requests for the information to be released to the public. “We just do not know if the Netherlands has compromised justice,” he said in reaction to the ministry’s decision. *The MP was surprised that this agreement was even signed, never mind kept secret*. 

Malaysia is the only country to have directly negotiated with the anti-Kiev militias in the East of Ukraine, while the country’s Ambassador to the Netherlands said he was unhappy that Malaysia had not been included within the JIT. Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte flew to Kuala Lumpur on November 5, but Malaysia says it still did not receive an invitation to join. 

"We must first be included in the JIT, otherwise it would be hard for us to cooperate in the investigation. The parties inside the investigation must include us in the team, right now we are just a participant," said the Malaysian Inspector-General of Police Khalid Abu Bakar in Kuala Lumpur on Wednesday, which was reported by the New Straits Times. 

A preliminary report by the Dutch Safety Board, which was released September said the MH17 crash was a result of structural damage caused by a large number of high-energy objects that struck the Boeing from the outside. m

Dutch investigators added that “there are no indications” that the tragedy was triggered “by a technical fault or by actions of the crew.” 

http://rt.com/news/207243-netherlands-mh17-investigation-documents/


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## Carpe-Diem (Feb 24, 2014)

Interesting article, brah, on why Russia can't afford a new Cold War despite how much the West wants one, brah.



> One of the axioms of global geopolitics is that a country can project power only as far as its economic might allows. There is good reason why the United States, by far the world’s largest economy, has been the dominant force in all things political and military for the past 60 years. And we can see China now rising to superpower status on the back of its spectacular economic ascent.
> 
> Vladimir Putin should take note. As Russia’s president attempts to reassert his nation’s clout in Europe, he is doing so on an ever shakier economic foundation. The question for Putin going forward is whether his stumbling economy can support his geopolitical ambitions. The answer is anything but clear.
> Russia’s economy was struggling even before Putin’s adventurous foray into Ukraine. The country had been one of the high-fliers of the developing world, so much so that Goldman Sachs included Russia in its BRICs — the emerging economies that would shape the economic future — along with Brazil, India and China. But a feeble investment climate, endemic corruption and excessive dependence on natural resource exports eventually laid Russia low. Growth last year sunk to only 1.3%, down from the 7% to 8% rates experienced a decade ago.
> ...


Here's the link, brah


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Carpe-Diem said:


> Interesting article, brah, on why Russia can't afford a new Cold War despite how much the West wants one, brah.
> 
> Here's the link, brah


Yep, an unbiased article by one of the mouthpieces of the U.S. corporate cabal that controls Washington - FORTUNE MAGAZINE!!! :lol 

Putin's response to the justification for the missile shield the U.S. is building around Russia is apropos for this article!






The truth of the matter is that it's the U.S. forcing the world into another Cold War. Russia has little choice - get on its knees and subjugate itself to U.S. domination, or use every economic and, if necessary, military means to remain free of Washington's boot!

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Lavrov was spot on in this interview. The West, especially the U.S., wants a regime change in Russia, not cooperation or a change of Russian policy. As I've said numerous times in the past, they want a Yeltsin who will grovel, kiss ass, and subjugate the Russian economy to the U.S. 

- Mike


Western sanctions are aimed at regime change in Russia – Lavrov

Published time: November 22, 2014 10:46 

*The ultimate goal of the anti-Russian sanctions imposed by some Western nations is to stir public protests and oust the government*, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said.

“Western leaders publicly state that the sanctions must hurt [Russia's] economy and stir up public protests. The West doesn’t want to change Russia’s policies. *They want a regime change. Practically nobody denies that,*” he told a leading think-tank in Moscow. 

Lavrov said that the tensions between Russia and the West had been brewing for years before the Ukrainian crisis, adding that now the Europeans had decided to go for all-or-nothing and play chicken with Russia. *But at least the positions have been made clear*, Lavrov said.

‘Ideology blinds Europe’ 

Russia and the EU are having a moment of truth focused on Ukraine, Lavrov said, but stressed that Moscow would not be the one to break off ties with Europe. However, Russia won't simply go back to how things were before the crisis hit, he said. 

“The EU is our largest partner," Lavrov said. "Nobody is going to shoot himself in the foot and reject cooperation with Europe, *but everyone understands that it won’t be business as usual anymore*. 

“But we don’t need the kind of business we had. [That] was like ‘Russia must do this and must do that,' and we want to cooperate as equals,” he added. 

He laid the blame for the escalation on an “aggressive minority” among EU nations, who pursue ideologically-driven grabs of power in eastern Europe, including Ukraine, instead of focusing on the serious problems that Europe is facing due to the turmoil across the Mediterranean in North Africa and the Middle East. 

“Exporting any kind of ideology, whether it is democratic or communist or any other kind, won’t do any good,” he warned. 

Ideology blinds Europeans to some problems, which Russia believes need to be solved, Lavrov said. For example, EU officials are reluctant to speak about the persecution of Christians by Muslim militants in Iraq and Syria or elsewhere, because they fear that this would be perceived a is politically incorrect. Meanwhile there is a growing Christianophobia in the world, he said. 

“Most of EU members avoid discussing this issue. They are ashamed to pronounce it as they were ashamed to put a phrase acknowledging the Christian roots of Europe into the EU Constitution,” Lavrov said. “*If you don’t remember and don’t respect your own roots and traditions, how can you respect the traditions of other people?*” 

‘Russia not anti-American’ 

Lavrov blamed the US for claiming global leadership at a time when both its resources and leadership skills are in decline. Particularly, he said, Washington is increasingly tuning its policies with electoral cycles, as long-term goals are sacrificed for short-term gains of popularity among voters. 

“We cannot accept the position of those who tell us: ‘Put up with it. Everyone has to suffer from America having elections every two years, and nothing should be done about it. Relax and take it as a given’. This won’t do. We won’t take it because the stakes are too high,” Lavrov said. 

He added that while some take Russia’s opposition to America’s global influence as anti-Americanism, this is not the case. 

“It’s not about anti-Americanism or forming some sort of anti-American coalition. *It’s about the natural desire of an increasing number of nations to ensure their vital interests and doing it in a way they see right, not the way they are being told by a foreign party,” *he said. 

If the US pursues leadership not out of a false perception that it has a God-given burden to take responsibility for everybody, but by developing the skill to form a consensus, Moscow would be the first to back Washington, Lavrov said. 

But now *Washington is bullying other nations into toeing their line, and few dare to object publicly out of fear of reprisal, while complaining in private*, he added.

http://rt.com/news/207927-russia-europe-business-usual/


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## Carpe-Diem (Feb 24, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> Yep, an unbiased article by one of the mouthpieces of the U.S. corporate cabal that controls Washington - FORTUNE MAGAZINE!!! :lol


Brah, you can't talk since you're posting articles from a 100% state-funded Russian television network, brah.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Carpe-Diem said:


> Brah, you can't talk since you're posting articles from a 100% state-funded Russian television network, brah.


Touche'! Fair enough! :agree:

- Mike


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## Carpe-Diem (Feb 24, 2014)

LOL, brah, look at how the Western MSM is depicting the pro-Russian rebels in Eastern Ukraine:










Link, brah.

Pretty pathetic.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

While I have no doubt that the sanctions war is not good for the Russian economy, the FORTUNE magazine article doesn't mention that Russia's gold reserves have tripled over the last 7 years.

2007: 402.0 tons
2008: 450.0 tons
2009: 519.0 tons
2010: 637.6 tons
2011: 789.9 tons
2012: 883.2 tons
2013: 958.0 tons
2014: 1,169.5 tons

Also, two contracts for supplying natural gas to China have been recently officially signed - both are for *$400 billion *over the next 30 years starting in the next couple of years.

The FORTUNE magazine analysis ignores the fact that 50% of the foodstuffs that have been sanctioned from entering Russia from the EU are being supplied now by Belarus who is making out like a bandit from the extra trade. The rest are being obtained elsewhere.

FORTUNE also turns a blind eye to the Eurasian Economic Union and Common Economic Space (mini-version of the EU) between Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Armenia.

While the EU is a huge chunk of Russia's trade right now, I believe that the short term negative affects of weaning itself away from the EU and turning to Asia and South America will be worth it in the end for the Russian people.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Carpe-Diem said:


> LOL, brah, look at how the Western MSM is depicting the pro-Russian rebels in Eastern Ukraine:
> 
> [Pretty pathetic.




*In reality the troops of the DPR and LPR look like this:*



















*...and the captured Kiev junta invaders look like this:*



















*The Right Sector killers who weren't lucky enough to be captured ended up like this:
*






DEATH TO THE KIEV JUNTA / GLORY TO THE HEROES OF DONBAS!

СМЕРТЬ КИЕВСКОЙ ХУНТЕ / СЛАВА ГЕРОЯМ ДОНБАССА!


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## Carpe-Diem (Feb 24, 2014)

^ I don't think it's that black-and-white, brah. 

One funny thing about Russia Today, though - this time last year when the protests happened, RT accused those in Western Ukraine as all being radical neo-Nazis. However, now, they claim that the protests prior to the Crimean crisis and everything was 'peaceful'. Like, WTF, brah?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Carpe-Diem said:


> ^ I don't think it's that black-and-white, brah.
> 
> One funny thing about Russia Today, though - this time last year when the protests happened, RT accused those in Western Ukraine as all being radical neo-Nazis. However, now, they claim that the protests prior to the Crimean crisis and everything was 'peaceful'. Like, WTF, brah?


Please, cite the article.

- Mike


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## Carpe-Diem (Feb 24, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> Please, cite the article.
> 
> - Mike


Brah...

http://rt.com/news/207223-maidan-protest-anniversary-highlights/

As you can see, brah, they're saying it started off as a peaceful rally. But I explicably remember RT criticising the revolution from the start, brah, and saying the protesters were radical Nazis.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Carpe-Diem said:


> Brah...
> 
> http://rt.com/news/207223-maidan-protest-anniversary-highlights/
> 
> As you can see, brah, they're saying it started off as a peaceful rally. But I explicably remember RT criticising the revolution from the start, brah, and saying the protesters were radical Nazis.


I read this article when it came out a few days ago and it gives a fair assessment of how the demonstrations morphed into a violent coup d'etat. I don't see a contradiction in this article with what RT reported at the beginning of the Maidan. It follows the reporting of the original time line. 

The "Maidan" did "start off" as a peaceful demonstration and was reported as such by RT as it occurred. Most riots and/or revolutions start off initially as "peaceful." RT was by no means supportive of the Maidan protests when they began. But, at the start of the demonstrations neo-Nazi activity was mentioned minimally in RT reporting. 

After the violence began it became evident that the ultra-nationalist elements were in the forefront of the activity and Washington was supporting, if not engineering, the events. That's when RT began to point out in no uncertain terms that the ultra-nationalist, neo-Nazis of Right Sector, Svoboda, and other blatantly fascist organizations were in the forefront of the violence.

- Mike


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## Carpe-Diem (Feb 24, 2014)

Why wasn't RT supportive of the protests, brah, before the neo-Nazi stuff?


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Carpe-Diem said:


> Why wasn't RT supportive of the protests, brah, before the neo-Nazi stuff?


Because the protests were against a regime that they support and anything that goes against what they support is not being mentioned by them.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

I'm going to be honest here, Ukraine is going to be hurt either way

Both groups want to pull the nation back to what they consider "the good old days" and in both of those "good old days" they purged people they did not like 

I am not invested and neither side is worth my support 

I am just against further flare ups, if "Ukraine rebels", "fascist terrorists", and secession groups that want to side with Russia start magically popping up in other former USSR nations than I will be very annoyed


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*WHITE WASHING FASCISM*








*GLOBAL RESEARCH
Centre for Research on Globalization
**U.S. Among Three Countries at U.N. Officially Backing Nazism and Holocaust-Denial. Israel Parts Company from Them; Germany Abstains*

By Eric Zuesse

Global Research, November 24, 2014

*In a U.N. vote, on November 21st, only three countries — the United States, Ukraine, and Canada — voted against a resolution to condemn racism-fascism, or “nazism,” and to condemn denial of Germany’s World War II Holocaust primarily against Jews*.

This measure passed the General Assembly, on a vote of *115 in favor, 3 against, and 55 abstentions *(the abstentions were in order not to offend U.S. President Obama, who was opposed to the resolution).

The measure had been presented to their General Assembly after a period of more than a decade of rising “neo-Nazi” (i.e., racist-fascist) movements in Europe, including especially in Ukraine, where two Ukrainian nazi parties were installed by the U.S. into high posts in Ukraine’s new government, immediately after the democratically elected Ukrainian President Victor Yanukovych was overthrown in a violent coup in Kiev during February of this year...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/u-s-am...ts-company-from-them-germany-abstains/5415939


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

You can't ban people from being Nazis just like you can't ban people from being communist

If you wanna be a Nazi you can be a Nazi, just don't shoot people 

There are Holocaust deniers on this forum but I don't think they should go to jail for it


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

stevefox1200 said:


> You can't ban people from being Nazis just like you can't ban people from being communist
> 
> If you wanna be a Nazi you can be a Nazi, just don't shoot people
> 
> There are Holocaust deniers on this forum but I don't think they should go to jail for it


"*Condemning*" something and "*banning*" something are two different things. According to Webster's the main definition of "*condemn*" is :

*"to say in a strong and definite way that someone or something is bad or wrong"*

This is what the U.N. vote was about. The U.N. *condemned* nazism.

According to Webster's the main definition of the word "*ban*" is:

*"to forbid (someone) from doing or being part of something*"

This is what the Kiev junta did to the Party of Regions and Communist Party Ukraine. The neo-nazi government in Kiev officially *banned* these two parties that were the largest parties in Ukraine and represented the views of the southern and eastern regions of the country.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Well, thanks to Brussels knuckling under to Washington the South Stream Pipeline project is dead in the water (pun intended!). Russia wisely told the EU to go fuck themselves after being given the runaround for too long. 

By following Washington's diktat the EU is shooting itself in the foot. What's good for the empire buildiers on the Potomac is not necessarily good for Europe. I could be wrong, but a decade down the road Europe could very well be totally screwed economically beyond the point of no return thanks to their leaders kissing Washington's collective ass.

On the other hand, in my opinion, Russia has to be smart, tighten its belt and accept some near term hardship, and find other people to do business with. The latest example is this South Stream Pipeline. Instead of continuing to bang its head against the wall dealing with the U.S. controlled leaders of the E.U., the Kremlin just deep sixed the project entirely and turned to Turkey who will now be buying a shitload of natural gas from them through an existing pipeline. Apparently, the Turks are not going to let Washington's agenda dictate how or with whom they do business. 

Who gets hurt? *NOT* Russia! They are selling their gas and not taking the risk of investing billions of dollars in a deal with a bunch of cretins running the EU who could cost them their investment in the future because of the whims of U.S. foreign policy.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_More bizzare news from the Kiev junta controlled Ukraine indicates that *foreigners will be invited to occupy key political posts in Ukraine's government*. 

It's obvious that the U.S. is tacitly running the country behind the scenes, but if this goes through they won't have to hide that fact anymore. Just appoint John McCain as Prime Minister and play both the American and Ukrainian National Anthems at the opening of Rada sessions._ :faint:

_- Mike_

I'm posting this RT article from a few days ago, because I really can't find anything in the main stream Western media on this. 


Poroshenko aims to change laws to allow foreigners into Ukrainian govt

Published time: November 27, 2014 22:29 

*Ukraine’s president has announced plans to change the nation's legislation to make it possible to appoint foreigners to top government positions. This has been dubbed “unprecedented,” and may indicate that the country is being governed “from outside*.” 

“My idea is to change the laws in order to give the right to engage foreigners in state service, including government,” President Petro Poroshenko said in his address to Parliament on Thursday. “Or to expand the list of people whom Ukraine’s president may provide with Ukrainian citizenship in a speedy procedure,” he added. 

He stressed that those foreigners’ willingness to accept Ukrainian citizenship in order to take the posts will “confirm” the “strong commitment of our potential partners and candidates.” 

Poroshenko also suggested appointing a foreigner as the head of the newly-created National Anti-corruption Bureau. He elaborated that foreigners would have a particular powerful “advantage,” due to their “absence of links to the Ukrainian political elite.” 

“Nobody will be anybody’s godfather or matchmaker,” he said, referring to political nepotism. 

Earlier, Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseny Yatsenuk suggested the creation of a new position – deputy prime minister of European integration affairs. *He proposed that a European leader be appointed to the post*. 

On Thursday, Yatsenyuk received approval from lawmakers to remain Ukraine's premier, while five Ukrainian parties formed the new ruling European Ukraine coalition during the first session of the new parliament. 

*‘Does Poroshenko believe all Ukrainians are corrupt?’* 

*If Kiev is truly planning to suggest that top government positions be filled by citizens of other countries, the situation is unprecedented*, a Ukrainian political expert told RIA Novosti, also questioning the legitimacy of such a move. 

"Such cases are exempt from modern [political] practice, when someone who does not have the right to even theoretically have access to state secrets – because he is a citizen of another country – is invited to take a post of minister in the government of a sovereign country. *I think this is another demonstration of the degraded status and allegiance to the so-called European choice,*” said Mikhail Pogrebinskiy, head of Kiev's Center of Political Studies and Conflict Management. 

He questioned whether Poroshenko’s plans to appoint a foreigner as head of the anti-corruption government department suggests a total lack of confidence in his own people. 

The president’s “reasoning is also surprising – does Poroshenko believe that every citizen of Ukraine will certainly be corrupt while holding this post?” 

Reports cited by RIA Novosti claim that *foreigners may be offered top jobs in the ministries of finance, energy and coal production, and infrastructure, as well as the post of deputy prime minister...
*
http://rt.com/news/209563-ukraine-foreigners-government-posts/


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Now this is just ridiculous:

*State-run network Rossia has aired a doctored version of a U.S. advert on one of its prime-time television programs, in a bid to demonstrate the "erosion of morals" in the West.*

State-run network Rossia has aired a doctored version of a U.S. advert on one of its prime-time television programs, in a bid to demonstrate the "erosion of morals" in the West.

In the original version of the video, a boy is surprised by his family after they stuck a monster truck decal to his bedroom wall for his 11th birthday.

But in a version of the video shown during prime-time political talk show Special Correspondent, the boy is shown to be looking at something entirely different: Drawings of naked men in suggestive poses.

Rossia-1 used the doctored video to demonstrate the supposed enforcement of sexual content and LGBT lifestyles on children in Europe and the U.S.

"Is this really what a child's room is supposed to look like?" a Russian television narrator says off-screen as a camera shows the images of the naked men.

The narrator also decries the "erosion of morals, the dissolution of the institute of marriage" in the West, adding that "Europe was meekly following the example of the U.S."

Fathead, the manufacturers of the decal, said it was considering legal action against Rossia, RFE/RL reported.

"We will not tolerate the reconstruction of one of our family friendly TV spots into a hateful, bigoted, and outrageous attack on the gay community as well as children," the company was quoted as saying in a statement.

Fathead said last month via its YouTube channel that it had found the original video — made by the parents of the boy, Drake, on his birthday — and liked it so much that it "decided it should be a Fathead commercial."

"Reactions like this are why we at Fathead do what we do," the company in a note on its YouTube account. "Big thanks to Drake and his family for letting us use the video."

Following the Rossia program, Fathead said it "would vigorously pursue those who created this abhorrent depiction of our content, as well as those [who] host it online, to facilitate their prosecution to the full extent of the law," RFE/RL reported.

Russia's state-run television networks have turned up their anti-Western proclamations in recent months amid criticism of Moscow's annexation of Crimea and its policy in eastern Ukraine.

Russia, which denies Western accusations that it is supplying weapons and fighters to pro-Moscow rebels, has also relied on fake footage to illustrate its newscasts about Ukraine.

In one incident this spring, Rossia used footage from its own 2012 report about a gun battle in the North Caucasus to illustrate the supposed atrocities by Ukrainian government forces against civilians.

*When the footage was exposed as fake, Dmitry Kiselyov — the head of the All-Russia State Television and Radio Broadcasting Company, which includes Rossia television — attributed the switch to an "accidental error." *

The last line - seriously? How dumb is he?


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## Muerte al fascismo (Feb 3, 2008)

If anyone is shooting themselves in the foot it's Russia. It's economy is screwed with the falling oil revenues and crashing currency. It just had to announce a series of cuts to its health service. With Europe pulling back from providing military and technological equipment, its armed-forces and tech-base are becoming hollow. Most of its neighbors doesn't trust them and the sanctions are biting. There's food shortages and money is continuing to flee the country.

Putin is leading the country to financial ruin and international isolation. You can't run a country on threats and bravado. The Russian economy is so imbalanced it will not survive without co-operation with the west. The BRIC nations will not be the savior that many envision. It doesn't help when Putin runs a mafia state, a system based on patronage and without effective opposition. His disdain of opponents is losing a lot of talent that may be able to lift Russia from its slump.

Wake up and smell the coffee. Just look at Russian GDP and foreign currency reserves.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Muerte al fascismo said:


> If anyone is shooting themselves in the foot it's Russia. It's economy is screwed with the falling oil revenues and crashing currency. It just had to announce a series of cuts to its health service. With Europe pulling back from providing military and technological equipment, its armed-forces and tech-base are becoming hollow. Most of its neighbors doesn't trust them and the sanctions are biting. There's food shortages and money is continuing to flee the country.
> 
> Putin is leading the country to financial ruin and international isolation. You can't run a country on threats and bravado. The Russian economy is so imbalanced it will not survive without co-operation with the west. The BRIC nations will not be the savior that many envision. It doesn't help when Putin runs a mafia state, a system based on patronage and without effective opposition. His disdain of opponents is losing a lot of talent that may be able to lift Russia from its slump.
> 
> Wake up and smell the coffee. Just look at Russian GDP and foreign currency reserves.


Oil prices are being deliberately held down by U.S. allies in OPEC in order to hurt the Russian economy. It won't last forever.

Russia isn't isolated internationally. It is becoming isolated from its enemies in the West, i.e. NATO countries. However, the rest of the world has no problem dealing with Russia. The last time I looked NATO wasn't the whole world.

Russian gold reserves are triple what they were a decade ago and they have ample foreign currency reserves as far as I a know. Trade is increasing with China and the east. The two natural gas deals they just inked with China will bring in $800 billion. Europe still needs natural gas and is buying from Russia. The defunct pipeline deal is a blessing in disguise and now Turkey is stepping up to buy. 

You also seem to have completely ignored the Customs Union between Russia, Kazakhstan, Belarus, and Armenia. In fact, this is a viable economic entity.

Let the chips fall where they may. But, I'm putting my money on Europe getting the screw job here in the end. The collapse of the South Stream Pipeline project is going to hurt Eastern and Southern Europe. The Czech Republic is already publically denouncing the sanctions against Russia and Washington looks like it may be gearing up to foment a regime change there. How dare the Czech president criticize the U.S. hegemony's agenda!!! 

Time will tell. But, for Russia to knuckle under to the U.S. Empire is suicide and a sure path to economic slavery.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_*UNBELIEVABLE!* Foreign carpetbaggers have started their descent on Ukraine with the blessing of the Kiev junta who owes its existence to them and now has to pay the piper. The Americans have bared their fangs. They've already stole the Ukrainian gold reserves... they're getting ready to strip Ukraine of all of its movable wealth before the junta falls.

Whether or not you agree with my opinion on the situation in Ukraine, how can anyone support this illegal, scumbag government openly handing over to foreigners control of key government positions that manage the country's wealth???

God help the Ukrainian people!

- Mike 

_
American, Georgian & Lithuanian get key jobs in Ukraine’s new govt

Published time: December 02, 2014 22:49 

*The natives of the US, Georgia and Lithuania were hastily granted Ukrainian citizenship in order to become key ministers in the new government of Ukraine, which was approved by the country’s parliament on Tuesday*.

President Poroshenko has also announced he will sign a decree to grant citizenship to foreigners fighting on Kiev’s side in the east of the country. 

*Natalie Jaresko of the US, who currently heads the Kiev-based Horizon Capital investment fund, will take reigns at the Ukrainian Finance Ministry.* :faint:

In 1992-1995, Jaresko served as the first Chief of the Economic Section of the US Embassy in Ukraine. 

Before that she occupied several economic positions in the US State Department, according to Horizon Capital website. 

The position of health minister went to Aleksandr Kvitashvili, who occupied a similar post in the Georgian government in 2009-2012. 

"Ukraine spends 8 per cent of its GDP on healthcare, but half of this money is being plundered. Aleksandr Kvitashvili must implement radical reforms as he has no ties with the Ukrainian pharmaceutical mafia,” Ukrainian PM, Arseny Yatsenuk, said as he presented the new minister to the deputies. 

*Lithuanian Aivaras Abromavicius has been approved as the economy minister by the new parliament, the Verkhovna Rada*. 

Abromavicius, who is a partner at the $3.6 billion-worth East Capital asset management group, conducts his operations from Kiev after marrying a Ukrainian. :argh:

“There’s hard work ahead of us because Ukraine is a very poor and corrupt country and we’ll have to use radical measures,” he told MPs from the Rada tribune. 

288 out of 450 deputies supported the cabinet proposed by Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko, with the new ministers sworn in right after the vote. 

“I congratulate the Ukrainians with the formation of the pro-European government,” Poroshenko wrote on his Twitter page. 

He told the Rada that he views the foreigners as some kind of anti-crisis management need due to the difficult situation in economy, the fighting in Donbas, the necessity of radical reforms and large-scale corruption. 

Earlier on the Tuesday, the president has signed special a decree granting Ukrainian citizenship to Jaresko, Kvitashvili and Abromavicius. 

*Poroshenko said that there’ll be even more foreigners on administrative positions in Ukraine as the county *“must attract the best international experience, which includes assigning positions in the government to representative of states friendly to Ukraine.” 

Also on Tuesday, the *MPs from Poroshenko’s ruling bloc have registered a draft law in the Rada on amending the Ukrainian legislation for it to allow citizens of other states in the government*. 

It had been announced by Poroshenko a week ago. This move has been dubbed “unprecedented” and attracted criticism from experts with some calling it “allegiance to the so-called European choice,” and others expressing concern that it can be a sign of Ukraine losing its sovereignty. 

Poroshenko also promised to grant the citizenship of Ukraine to all foreigners fighting for Kiev against the militias in the country’s eastern Donetsk and Lugansk regions. 

“I’m going to sign a decree conferring Ukrainian citizenship to those, who defended Ukraine with arms in their hands,” he wrote on Twitter. 

However, not everybody in the parliament supported the inclusion of foreigners into the Ukrainian government. 

Earlier, the MP from the Opposition Block said Aleksandr Vilkul suggested that *by inviting people from abroad the Ukrainian authorities are trying to absolve themselves of responsibility for the state of things in the country*. 

Vilkul colleague, Yury Boyko, said he can’t understand *how it wasn’t possible to find 10 candidates for the cabinet among Ukraine’s 40-million population*.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Some quotes from *VLADIMIR PUTIN'S DECEMBER 2014 STATE OF THE NATION SPEECH*:

- "Hitler wanted to destroy Russia - everyone needs to remember how that turned out."

- "They wanted to disintegrate Russia like they did with Yugoslavia. They failed. We stopped them"

- "If the Russian Army is unleashed there will be devastating consequences for those opposing it."

- "Crimea is as sacred to Russians as Temple Mount is to Jews and Judaism."

- "Sanctions are unpleasant, but mostly for those who introduce them."

- "The U.S. would have found ways to curb Russia's growth without Crimea which was just an excuse."

- "Sometimes it is unclear whether to speak to a country's government or its U.S. patrons."

- "True sovereignty is an absolute necessary condition for Russia's existence."

Click on the following link below to hear a simultaneous English translation of 

*VALDIMIR PUTIN'S STATE OF THE NATION SPEECH, DECEMBER 4, 2014 * 

https://soundcloud.com/rttv/putin-federal


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)




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## Skermac (Apr 6, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> Some quotes from *VLADIMIR PUTIN'S DECEMBER 2014 STATE OF THE NATION SPEECH*:
> 
> - "Hitler wanted to destroy Russia - everyone needs to remember how that turned out."
> 
> ...


Putin made very good points.


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Putin does indeed have some good points. However, he forgot to add that Crimea is about as sacred to Russians as the Karelian Isthmus and the Sortavala regions are to Finns. :toomanykobes


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Matt Hardy's xmas package said:


> Putin does indeed have some good points. However, he forgot to add that Crimea is about as sacred to Russians as the Karelian Isthmus and the Sortavala regions are to Finns. :toomanykobes


As a Russian Orthodox Christian I would take umbrage with your observation. *The most pivotal event in Russian history was the Baptism of Grand Prince (Saint) Vladimir which took place in Crimea*… we don’t call him ravnoapostol (Equal-to-the-Apostles) for nothing!

If Prince (Saint) Vladimir did not accept Christianity and was not baptized by the Greek Orthodox Church then there would *NOT* have been a "Baptism of Rus" in Kiev (which is more familiar to Westerners.)

In addition, there are myriad Russian Orthodox shrines in Crimea. They include:

*Simferopol* 
Saint-Trinity Cathedral (built in 19 century).
Theological Seminary and Church of Three Prelates (built in 20 century).
Cathedral of St. Apostles Peter and Paul (built in 19 century).
Church of All Sacred (built in 19 century).

*Simferopol – Alushta *
Kosmo-Damianovsky monastery. It has the icon of St. Kosma and Damian with their relics, i.e. bones.

*Yalta* 
Alexander Nevsky cathedral (18 – 19 centuries).
St. Joann Zlatoust cathedral (built in 19 century).
St. Feodor Tyron church (built in 19 century).
Krestovozdvizhenskaya church (built in 19 century).
St. Nikolay Church (built in 20 century).

*Yalta-Foros* 
Church of Christ Resurrection (built in 19 century).

*Bakhchisaray* 
Uspensky monastery – one of the most famous cave monasteries in Crimea. Founded in 8 – 9 centuries.
Cave churches with preserved remainders of frescos (13 – 16 centuries).

*Sevastopol* 
St. Vladimir monastery, Cathedral of St. Prince Vladimir (national, historic and cultural museum Chersoneses Tavrichesky).
St. Clement (Inkerman) cave monastery (since 2 century).
Orthodox relics of medieval Chersoneses: remainders, basilicas and ancient town.
St. Michael cathedral (Black sea fleet museum).
St. Nikolay cathedral (founded 1854-1855 at the memorial cemetery of Crimean war participates).
St. Gorge Victorian chapel (built in 1995)

- Mike

*ICON DEPICTING THE GREEK ORTHODOX BAPTISM OF GRAND PRINCE VLADIMIR IN CHERSONYSUS, CRIMEA, 988 AD *


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

RUSSIA HAS ONLY WESTERN ENEMIES, NOT PARTNERS

_The corrupt cabals in Washington, and the media presstitutes are the enemies of humanity—including millions of clueless Americans
_
Author TGP STAFF Date December 6, 2014 










The US House of Representatives joined Hillary Clinton, Obama, the neoconservatives, Washington’s vassals, and the American and European presstitutes in demonising Russia and President Putin. The House resolution against Russia is a packet of lies, but that didn’t stop the resolution from passing by a vote of 411 for it and 10 against it. 

The entire world should take note that the American people are capable of electing only ten intelligent representatives. Ten people out of 435 is 2 percent. Yet, Washington declares itself “exceptional” and “indispensable”, empowered to exercise hegemony over the world!

No one should be surprised to see Washington, its presstitutes and European vassal states using the same propagandistic lies against Russia and Putin as were used against Iraq and Saddam Hussein, Libya and Gaddafi, Syria and Assad, Afghanistan and the Taliban, and Iran. *Washington is fearful of the rise of Russia and China, of the leadership demonstrated by V V Putin, of the formation of new organisations independent of Washington, such as the BRICS.* When its “six week, 70 billion USD war”, which turned out to be, so far, a multi-trillion dollar 13-year losing operation, side-tracked the George W Bush régime, Putin kicked out some of the American agents who were contaminating Russian sovereignty and rebuilt the country.

When Putin blocked the planned American invasions of Syria and Iran, Washington decided that it had to do something about Putin and Russia. *Washington spent 5 billion dollars buying Ukrainian politicians and funding fifth column NGOs. With Putin distracted with the Olympics, Washington struck, overthrew the elected Ukrainian government, and installed its puppets*. 

The puppets set about antagonising the Russian population in the Ukraine. These provinces were formerly Russian, but Soviet leaders attached them to the Ukraine when Russia and the Ukraine were the same country. *Naturally, Russians threatened with death and the banning of their language didn’t want to be victims of Washington’s puppet government in Kiev*. Crimea voted to reunite with Russia from whence it came, and so did the eastern and southern provinces.

Washington and its vassals and presstitutes lied, *describing these acts of self-determination as Russian invasion and annexation*. They falsely accused Russia of having troops occupying the breakaway (sic) provinces.








[/IMG]

*The purpose of Washington’s false accusations is to destabilise Russia and the country’s government*. Washington has many avenues by which to destabilise Russia. Washington has American-funded NGOs, foreign-owned Russian media, and the House Resolution calls for Washington to expand propaganda broadcasting into Russia in the Russian language. Washington cultivated oligarchs, business interests, and Russian politicians who see their economic and political interests aligned with the West. *There are deluded Russian youths who think freedom resides in the West, and others represented by such as Pussy Riot who prefer the West’s amorality or immorality to the local Russian government-supported Christian culture*.

If Washington fails to destabilise Russia or assassinate Putin, frustration could result in it showing more reckless behaviour, which could lead to military conflict. The House Resolution calls on Obama to arm the Ukraine with American weapons so that the Ukraine can conquer the separatist (sic) provinces and take back the Crimea. There are constant calls from NATO itself for more military forces on Russia’s borders, and NATO conducts war games near Russia’s borders. *Washington wants to include former Russian provinces like Georgia and Ukraine in NATO, something that Russia can’t accept*. 

Washington is placing the world on the path to Armageddon, as Professor Michel Chossudovsky makes clear in Towards a World War III Scenario (Global Research, 2012).










The Russian government downplays the dangers and continues to speak of “our Western partners”, with whom the Russian government hopes to work things out. The Russian government and the Russian people… indeed, all the peoples of the earth… should understand that *Russia has no partners in the West. Russia only has enemies.* Washington makes it completely clear that *Russia can be part of the West only as a vassal state *and not as a sovereign country with its own interests and an independent policy. Washington’s demand for hegemony doesn’t permit the existence of other sovereign countries sufficiently strong to resist Washington’s will. As the ideology of hegemony has a powerful hold on Washington and is institutionalised in the neoconservative control of critical government offices and media, war is the almost certain outcome.

Washington’s puppet rulers of Europe are the enablers of the neoconservative warmongers. *In all of Europe, no government is independent of Washington*. Pawns like Merkel, Cameron, and Hollande sell out human life. Russian government officials, such as Putin and Lavrov, address the facts, but *to Washington and its European vassals, facts aren’t important. What’s important is to destabilise Russia*. One can’t address the conflict that Washington brings to Russia on a factual basis. Washington knew that Saddam Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction and no al-Qaeda connections. Washington knew that Assad didn’t use chemical weapons. Washington knew that it was setting up Gaddafi with lies. Washington knows that Iran has no nuclear weapons. *What was important to Washington wasn’t the truth, but the overthrow of these governments*. *Whilst the Olympics preoccupied the Russian government, Washington struck in the Ukraine, installing a puppet government.* It’s likely that the only solution that can make the festering problem of the Ukraine go away is the reincorporation of the Ukraine in Russia.










Usually, arrogance and hubris result in overreach, and overreach could break up Washington’s empire. However, Washington doesn’t think so. Just as Washington put its NGOs into the streets of Kiev in what it calls the Maiden protests, Washington put its NGOs in the streets of Hong Kong, hoping that the protests or riots would spread to other Chinese cities. *Russia and China are far too open to the West than is good for them*. Tsar Nikolai didn’t expect his government to be overthrown, but Kerensky did overthrow Nicholas’ government in the February Revolution… only to be overthrown by Lenin in the October Revolution. The Chinese don’t expect to be overthrown, but neither did V F Yanukovich. Political life is full of ambitious persons and agendas. Putin faces these ambitions in Russia. *Washington knows that it can’t turn Russia into a vassal state as long as Putin is in office. Therefore, the demonisation of Putin and plots against him will continue*.

6 December 2014

Paul Craig Roberts

The Greanville Post 

http://www.greanvillepost.com/2014/12/06/russia-has-western-enemies-not-partners/


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

A picture of Russian Nazis:










What are you trying to prove, Mike? That Nazis are only a problem in Ukraine ant the West and it's completely fine in Russia? Russia has them too, so what's your point?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> A picture of Russian Nazis:
> 
> What are you trying to prove, Mike? That Nazis are only a problem in Ukraine ant the West and it's completely fine in Russia? Russia has them too, so what's your point?


There's a big difference! The Nazis are not only state sponsored in Ukraine, they are enforcers for the Kiev junta and make up the vast majority of troops in the punitive battalions and National Guard oppressing the east.

In Russia they are a fringe element that is opposed by the government. 

- Mike


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> As a Russian Orthodox Christian I would take umbrage with your observation. *The most pivotal event in Russian history was the Baptism of Grand Prince (Saint) Vladimir which took place in Crimea*… we don’t call him ravnoapostol (Equal-to-the-Apostles) for nothing!
> 
> If Prince (Saint) Vladimir did not accept Christianity and was not baptized by the Greek Orthodox Church then there would *NOT* have been a "Baptism of Rus" in Kiev (which is more familiar to Westerners.)
> 
> ...


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

TL;DR version of the conflict (and this thread mostly) so far:






Video is pretty impartial and notice how they don't use insults to describe things and people they don't support/agree with.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> TL;DR version of the conflict (and this thread mostly) so far:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I suggest you look up the meaning of the word "impartial." This video looks like it was made in a CIA or NATO film studio. :lol

- The Ukrainian people did not vote to leave the Soviet Union. The breakup of the Soviet Union was done when Yeltsin (Russia), Kravchuk (Ukraine), and Shushkevich (Byelorussia) met in the Byelorussian SSR in December of 1991 and illegally dissolved the Soviet Union. Any vote or referendum that took place was done after the fact. The only referendum was done in the spring of that year at the behest of Gorbachev, and the majority of people in Ukraine voted not to break up the USSR.

- Interestingly, they don't mention U.S. involvement in the "Orange Revolution" and the fact that it was instigated from Western Ukraine by the U.S. who provided financial support through its NGOs in Ukraine.

- Yanukovich did not "back out" out of the deal with the EU, but postponed it. This "impartial" video flat out states that this deal would have been wonderful for Ukraine but, in fact, was a recipe for economic slavery that you who live in the smaller EU countries can attest to.

- The "impartial" video states that "Russia bullied Ukraine" and that "most of the Ukrainian population was outraged." Russia's "bullying" was in fact two decades of supporting Ukraine with subsidies for gas and trade concessions. The only outraged people in Ukraine were the Western Ukrainian neo-Nazis from Lviv and Ivano-Frankovsk who used this as an excuse to take to the streets knowing they had the backing of Washington.

- The "impartial" video forgets to mention that the Kiev junta that overthrew the elected government banned the two largest political parties in Ukraine before Poroshenko's "decisive victory" in the presidential "elections." It also fails to mention that the people of the Donbas did not vote because they didn't reconize the elections and in regions like Odessa hardly anyone turned out to vote at all. 

- The "help" of the IMF loan sharks will turn into one of the shackles of economic slavery that will keep the Ukrainian economy down for decades.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*DISCLAIMER:* I am *NOT* pretending that this video is impartial. - Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Dozens of graves, mostly Russian and Serbian, damaged by vandals in Sydney 

Published time: December 12, 2014 18:08 

At least 76 graves, mostly Russian and Serbian, have been damaged by vandals in a Sydney cemetery. The incident, already condemned by Moscow, happened a day before Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko’s official visit to Australia.

Headstones knocked down, crosses turned over – that’s how the Russian and Serbian sections of the Rookwood Cemetery, the biggest in Australia, looked after an attack that reportedly took place before dawn on Wednesday. 

Some of the damaged graves were also discovered in two non-denominational sections of the cemetery, which led to police being skeptical of whether the attack had been provoked by racial or religious hatred. 

*However, the timing of the assault – a day before the Ukrainian president’s arrival for a two-day visit to Australia – has given rise to suspicions that the desecrators particularly targeted Russian graves*. 

The Russian Orthodox cemetery spokesperson, Aleksey Ivachyoff, said no politics could excuse what was done to the graves. 

“Some people that I've seen coming here, once the news came across, they were crying,” he told RT. “They said, 'Nothing like this has ever happened before.'" 

“There is absolutely... no excuse,” he added. “Whatever political differences people have, they shouldn't take it [out] on the cemetery. They shouldn't take it [out] on the graves. They should let people there rest in peace.” 

The Australian Federation of Ukrainian Organizations labeled the attack a hate crime, calling for an investigation "at the highest levels," the Sydney Morning Herald reported. 

Russia’s Foreign Ministry in a statement on Friday also condemned “the blasphemous desecration of our compatriots’ graves, which cannot be justified.” 

On Thursday, Cossacks living in Australia – descendants of those who emigrated from Russia a century ago - announced they will reward anyone with information about the vandals with 5,000 Australian dollars, TASS reports. The Cossacks, who were the first to report the assault, have said they are currently helping police patrol the damaged cemetery to prevent new attacks.


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## Café de René (Sep 27, 2011)

*St Etienne fans stabbed during clashes with Dnipro supporters*

St Etienne supporters were injured during a mass brawl with Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk fans following the Ukrainian side’s 1-0 Europa League victory in Kiev on Thursday, according to reports.

Several of the French club’s supporters were taken to hospital with knife wounds, while others were treated for minor injuries after they burnt the Ukrainian flag (_this is denied by other sources_), the local Hromadske TV station claimed. Several Dnipro fans were detained by police.

Dnipro reached the last 32 as Group F runners-up, five points behind Internazionale , with seven points from six games.

“There was a fight between the French and Ukrainian supporters at Prorizna Street in Kiev,” an eyewitness told the TV station. “There were a lot of wounded people, with knife cuts and bruises from bats. I also heard at least 10-12 gunshots.”

Anton Gerashchenko, adviser to the Ukrainian ministry of internal affairs, said in a statement on his Facebook page: “Two French fans were hospitalised with head injuries. Those French supporters inopportunely were caught in the heat of the moment. And our hooligans will be accusing the Frenchmen, no matter who started the fight.”

Earlier this season Dnipro fans attacked supporters of FC Copenhagen in a Champions League qualifier. In July Uefa ordered Dnipro to play matches in Kiev – 220 miles (354 km) to the north-west – amid safety concerns over staging matches in the conflict-torn east of Ukraine.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/dec/12/st-etienne-fans-stabbed-clashes-dnipro-fans






That Gerashchenko guy actually wrote on Facebook that France was to blame for the attack because of its Mistral ships selling to Russia, unbelievable !


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Café de René said:


> *St Etienne fans stabbed during clashes with Dnipro supporters*
> 
> St Etienne supporters were injured during a mass brawl with Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk fans following the Ukrainian side’s 1-0 Europa League victory in Kiev on Thursday, according to reports.
> 
> ...


I don't follow European football, but like everyone I'm aware of the sporadic violence that can occur after a heated match. However, these Ukrainian football "hooligans" are a special case and I wouldn't tangle with them if I was the supporter of the opposing team. They're also neo-Nazi enforcers for the Keiv junta and have been used in various capacities including burning alive 40 unarmed anti-junta demonstrators in Odessa.

These thugs have carte blanche with the ruling junta in Kiev and have no qualms about murdering people if they feel like it. 

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Café de René said:


> *St Etienne fans stabbed during clashes with Dnipro supporters*
> 
> St Etienne supporters were injured during a mass brawl with Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk fans following the Ukrainian side’s 1-0 Europa League victory in Kiev on Thursday, according to reports.
> 
> ...


Dnipro 'fans' are actually known for being one of the most violent 'fan' groups in Europe along with with Greeks (Panathinaikos-Olympiakos), Serbs (Partizan-Crvena Zvezda) and Russians (Spartak-CSKA). Such violent clashes are no longer a surprise. And of course, stupid people will always find politics anywhere.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*CROSS TALK: UNITED STATES vs. RUSSIA*


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## Café de René (Sep 27, 2011)

The Manowarrior said:


> Dnipro 'fans' are actually known for being one of the most violent 'fan' groups in Europe along with with Greeks (Panathinaikos-Olympiakos), Serbs (Partizan-Crvena Zvezda) and Russians (Spartak-CSKA). Such violent clashes are no longer a surprise. And of course, stupid people will always find politics anywhere.


I'd say there's a difference between "regular" hooliganism, which is something you can totally expect in balkans/eastern europe, and attempted murders which are uncommon even for the fans you listed that are much more notorious than the small Dnipro fanbase. Not to mention, the use of guns is a rare occurence in football related clashes.

And yes, there's probably no politics in it but at the very least it shows that Ukraine is getting deeper into violence, even in non-conflict zone.


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## BruiserKC (Mar 14, 2010)

It's going to get more interesting (or dangerous, depending on your POV) as the ruble severely depreciates and crude oil prices falling put a cramp on the Russian economy. I've seen this story play out, during the final days of the Soviet Union the market collapsed over there because they could no longer prop up the military at the expense of the people not having the basics. 

This could make Putin even more dangerous and desperate as he is going to need to do something in order to keep the people behind him.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

As of January 1st, Lithuania has a new currency - Euro.

The new year means a new currency for Lithuania - it is joining the euro, following its Baltic neighbours Estonia and Latvia into the currency bloc.

Some Lithuanians fear price rises, but opinion polls point to growing optimism towards the euro. With Lithuania's entry the eurozone now has 19 members.

Government officials believe the euro will not only boost investment but will also bring deeper integration with the West.

"Given the current geopolitical situation, now it is more relevant than ever," central bank governor Vitas Vasiliauskas says.

Lithuania's economic growth is "steady", analysts say, at an estimated 3.1% for 2015. But there is concern about the impact of Russia's economic downturn.

Lithuania's giant eastern neighbour is an important trade partner, but sanctions over Ukraine have soured Russian-EU relations.

Once part of the Soviet Union, Lithuania will celebrate its 25th independence anniversary in March.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30635826


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

С РОЖДЕСТВОМ ХРИСТОВЫМ


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)




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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*YATSENIUK CLAIMS USSR INVADED GERMANY IN WW II!!!*
Either the weasel is trying to revise history or is trying to suck up to Merkel to beg for more money. It's probably a bit of both!


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)




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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

KIEV JUNTA'S ATTACK ON DONETSK AIRPORT REPELLED WITH HEAVY LOSSES TO UKRAINIAN TROOPS​
It looks like the "man of peace," pig Poroshenko, has ordered his forces to resume the invasion of Novorossiya. On Sunday six attempts by Poroshenko's armored columns to retake the Donetsk Airport were repelled with the Kiev junta's forces losing at least 200 killed. 

Of course, I could not find one report in the Western media of this. Every article that I googled on CNN, BBC, NY TIMES, etc., etc. had virtually the exact same report based on information received from the Kiev junta. All followed Poroshenko's line saying that the junta's troops had retaken the airport.

Hopefully, in a few days we will be able to get a definitive picture on who controls the airport. In the meantime, those who support the neo-Nazi genocide of the Kiev junta in Novorossiya can believe the reports of the Western media which supports the fascist murderers in Ukraine.



Ukrainian army attempts to reconquer Donetsk airport fail — Donetsk republic leader

World 
January 19, 13:35 UTC+3 










*The head of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic said the Ukrainian army has suffered tremendous losses*

DONETSK, January 19. /TASS/. Ukraine is using ceasefire in Donbas for regrouping its army units and their armament, head of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) Alexander Zakharchenko said in a statement on Monday.

“I can say with certainty that all the attempts by the Ukrainian troops to reconquer the airport, having revenge upon us for last year’s defeat have failed. The Ukrainian army has suffered tremendous losses. More than 6 infantry and armour attacks were launched on the terminal building. All of them failed. Also, the Ukrainian military were defeated in their attempt to battle through to Donetsk. Unfortunately, the Putilovsky Bridge was blown up. The entire convoy engaged in the breakthrough operation was destroyed. Three armour crewmen were captured,” Zakharchenko said.

According to the DPR head, Ukraine is using the ceasefire to arm itself, create a well-coordinated combat unit. “Now we can see very well that Ukraine has broken the armistice and attacked. We have never seen such intensive shelling attacks as in the last two days. Ukraine has opened fire on houses and civilians: children, aged people, women. It uses combat aviation. Ukraine bombed Gorlovka yesterday evening. A representative of the Co-ordination centre came under fire. Shell fragments hit even the OSCE mission building in Donetsk,” he added.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Contrary to the persistent reports of the Western media, it would appear that the Donetsk airport is completely in the hands of the freedom fighters and the Kiev junta's punitive battalions have been driven back beyond the point where they initiated the attack.

American made weapons have been found on the territory retaken by the Donetsk militia. 

The fact that Kiev is screaming that Russian troops are pouring over the border is a very reliable indication that Poroshenko's thugs have been driven back and the Western media is lying. Whenever the Kiev junta starts screamng, "The Russians are coming!" it usually means they are getting their asses handed to them. It's their typical excuse to explain how they are losing.

- Mike

US-Made Weapons, High-Power Explosives Found in Donetsk Airport

22:08 19.01.2015(updated 22:47 19.01.2015) 










*A senior commander of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic's military reported Monday that American-made weapons, M16-A5 assault rifles, grenades, as well as means of communication were found in the Donetsk airport, previously occupied by the Kiev-led troops*.

DONETSK, January 19 (Sputnik) – US-made weapons, as well as hundreds of high-power explosives, were found in the Donetsk airport, previously occupied by Ukrainian military, a senior commander of the militia of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic said Monday.

"During the investigation of the new terminal, our units found large numbers of American-made weapons. Those are M16-A5 assault rifles, grenades, as well as means of communication," Eduard Basurin, deputy commander of DPR militia, told journalists.

According to Basurin, hundreds of high-power explosives were found, "a simultaneous explosion of which would make the whole Donetsk shudder." The DPR engineering units are currently neutralizing the explosives, Basurin said.

Last week, DPR's Defense Ministry announced that the Kiev-led troops had left the contested territory of the Donetsk airport. Small groups of Ukrainian soldiers were later encountered in the vicinity of the airport, but were allowed to leave to avoid casualties. A spokesperson for Kiev forces denied the information of the withdrawal.

During last week's press conference, following the withdrawal, the DPR leader Alexander Zakharchenko said that US-made weapons were found. According to Zakharchenko, an M16 rifle was found in the airport.




Ukrainian military conduct massive attacks on Donetsk airport — Donetsk republic spokesman

World 
January 19, 19:49 UTC+3 

*In the course of defensive operations the militias destroyed 27 tanks and 20 armoured vehicles of the Kiev military*










DONETSK, January 19. /TASS/. The Ukrainian military are conducting massive attacks against the airport of Donetsk and shelling its territory with Grad and Uragan multiple rocket systems, the spokesman for the Defense Ministry of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic, Eduard Basurin, said.

“Over the past day the Donetsk militias have repelled massive attacks against the airport of Donetsk, that the Ukrainian troops launched on direct instructions from the Ukrainian president,” Basurin said.

The Ukrainian military have been using large calibre artillery and aircraft, he added.

“Ukrainian armour that was about to storm the militias’ positions was stopped far away and mostly destroyed,” he said.

*The general ratio of losses sustained by the Donetsk forces and the Ukrainian troops over the past day is one to ten,* Basurin said.

“*In the course of defensive operations the militias destroyed 27 tanks and 20 armoured vehicles. One tank was seized. Ukraine’s losses have exceeded 200 killed and about 300 injured. Our losses stand at 16 killed and 62 injured,” he said*.

“The airport and the areas around it are under the full control of the Donetsk Republic’s forces. At the moment the militias are conducting a security sweep in the village of Peski, close to the airport, from where Ukrainian artillery had shelled Donetsk residential areas and suburbs for the past few months,” Basurin said.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_The Red Army liberated Auschwitz... to exclude Putin is to spit in the face of all the surviving World War II vets and of all camp survivors in order to suck up to Nazi collaborators, Nazis, and their successors. The Ukraine is now ruled by those who revere Nazi collaborators, and who allow neofascists to prance around in SS uniforms in public. None dare call it evil and obscene... 

_Putin Excluded from Holocaust Commemorations​
Glancing at the headlines, one might believe President Putin had inappropriately decided not to attend Holocaust commemorations in Poland. 

In one breathtaking display of misinformation, Reuters reported in its article Putin will not attend Holocaust commemorations in Poland stating that, “On Monday, sources told Reuters that Putin was unlikely to join world leaders gathering at the site of the Auschwitz death camp because distrust caused by the conflict in the Ukraine cast a pall on arrangements”. *In reality, Poland, the nation hosting the commemorations, never invited the Russian leader. 
*
The geopolitical thrust and accompanying misinformation wants to reinforce the perception that Russia is now a hegemonic threat, on par with Nazi Germany during World War II. Reality couldn't contradict this contrived narrative more.

On 22 June 1941, Operation Barbarossa began. Three massive German armies moved at lightning speed into the USSR as part of a long-anticipated Nazi attempt to conquer Russia. The invasion would quickly overwhelm unprepared Russian forces, bringing German armies up to the gates of several major Russian cities, including Moscow. 

Along their way, Nazi forces would carry out mass arrests and executions of Eastern European Jews, Ukrainians, Byelorussians, and Russians. The Russian people and their allies fought bitterly at the cost of millions of lives to first slow, then, stop the invasion, then, turn it back, before finally reaching the gates of Berlin themselves. *Europe’s Jews, imprisoned and mass murdered by the millions, owe their eventual liberation to the heroic sacrifices of the Russian people who fought the majority of the war in Europe against Germany, years before American boots landed on the beaches of Normandy in 1944*.

Thus, President Putin represents a nation and people that formed the vanguard against the Nazi scourge and ended the threat of fascism in Europe. At the end of the war, whilst American soldiers found Hitler's death camps shocking, the Russian people lived the nightmare of Germany’s systematic regional genocide for years, first-hand. Putin’s exclusion from Holocaust commemorations is more than mere politics; it warns us that an old enemy once again stirs in its dark lair. 

After the end of World War II, the Americans, along with their newly formed NATO alliance, quickly used Nazis who surrendered to them so as not to face “justice” at the hands of the Soviets for their serial crimes against humanity. The Americans integrated them into some more noble causes such as space exploration, but also amongst darker networks including intelligence, propaganda, and even domestic terror networks (later, known notoriously as Operation Gladio).

At the end of the World War, NATO consistently backed former Nazis and their ideological allies in Soviet territory like the Ukraine, to resist Soviet rule. *These networks have survived, continuously, and manifest themselves even today in the form of the current Kiev junta, which violently overthrew the elected Ukrainian government between late 2013 and early 2014*. 

Fully backed by NATO, these successors of Nazi collaborators who literally served Adolf Hitler’s catastrophically tragic bid at global domination and assisted the genocide that accompanied that bid, carry out out similar dark deeds in [Novorossiya], albeit on a smaller but no less tragic scale. In true form, reflecting the obscenely dishonest narratives woven by Nazi propagandists like Joseph Goebbels, the Western world sidestepped these historic and current realities. *Instead, they insist that Russia, not literal fascists carrying Nazi flags, represents a resurgent fascism threatening Europe today*.

President Putin’s exclusion from Holocaust commemorations is a direct part of forming and reinforcing this narrative. *No one could give a greater insult to the victims, survivors, and heroes who suffered and eventually overcame the Nazi scourge than to twist and intentionally distort history, propping up the successors of villains and condemning those representing the millions of Russian lives lost to face such villains and a people who are once again ready to face them again*. 

Once again, Europe approaches precariously the precipice of self-inflicted tragedy. Fascism both old and new is festering and spreading in all directions as European leaders and the special interests that direct them seek a familiar ploy used when all else fails to unite and regiment their peoples. Once again, Russia seems to be standing alone in the face of this growing menace along their border, and once again, the Russian people are quietly preparing to make sacrifices befitting the heroic deeds of their fore-bearers.

Must it come to this? What if people saw and pointed to the gross hypocrisy and betrayal of Poland and the forces of fascism once again festering within that dealt the nation such a tragic blow during the last World War? What if people realised, regardless of their feelings toward Russia, that the path that they’re on leads only to self-ruination? Could Europeans as a whole realise that there’s a middle path between the extremes presented before them? The coming weeks and months will yield these answers. For those who have keenly kept one eye on history, and one on current events today, they must try to hope for the best, but prepare for the worst, remembering the lessons World War II has taught them, even if such lessons seem to be lost on everyone else.

19 January 2015

Ulson Gunnar

New Eastern Outlook

http://journal-neo.org/2015/01/19/et-tu-poland-putin-excluded-from-holocaust-commemorations/


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)




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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Apparently, Poroshenko made a huge mistake launching an attack on Donetsk Airport this past Sunday. His Western Ukrainian neo-Nazi hillbillies are getting slaughtered as the freedom fighters of the Novorossiya militias push them back on all fronts.

Next stop - Mariupol! The Kiev junta's defenses on the northern side of Mariupol have been breeched and the word is that the junta's fascist troops holding the city are running low on ammo. I guess Washington wasn't able to get weapons and ammo to them in time. Meanwhile, caches of American made weapons have been found in other areas taken back from the fascists on Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday.

Meanwhile, the Western media keeps on lying about what is happening on the front. What else is new?

- Mike

*"MARIUPOL, WE HAVE NOT FORGOTTEN YOU. WE WILL BE THERE SOON!"*









*THE EASTERN FRONT!*










Czech president condemns Ukrainian PM’s statement on USSR invasion of Germany, Ukraine

World 
January 20, 18:11 UTC+3 

_Earlier, Czech President Milos Zeman criticised the Ukrainian premier calling him in one of his latest interviews “a prime minister of war_”

*On Tuesday, Jiří Ovčáček, the Czech presidential spokesman, said that Czech President Miloš Zeman strongly condemned Ukrainian Prime Minister A P Yatsenyuk’s statement saying that the USSR invaded Germany and the Ukraine, saying, “Even the drafted version [of Yatsenyuk’s statement] didn’t disperse doubts that he made an attempt to revise the results of World War II”. 
*
Earlier, Zeman criticised Yatsenyuk, in one of his latest interviews, *he called him “a prime minister of war”*. 

On 8 January, Yatsenyuk told German state TV ARD, “All of us still clearly remember the Soviet invasion of the Ukraine and Germany”. 

On 9 January, RF Gosduma (lower house of the RF Federal Assembly) Foreign Affairs Committee chairman A K Pushkov called the Ukrainian prime minister’s statement “an extreme form of cynicism. The Ukrainian prime minister seeks political capital in Germany and Europe; he’s distorting well-known facts, backed in Europe itself… in Paris, Berlin, London, and in the USA. Nobody disputes the lawfulness of the anti-Hitler coalition’s actions. The USSR was its leading participant; it liberated Europe, including Germany, from Hitler, from Hitlerism”.

20 January 2015

ITAR-TASS

http://itar-tass.com/en/world/772198

*DESCENDANTS OF WESTERN UKRAINIAN NAZI COLLABORATORS CONTINUE THE STRUGGLE OF THEIR GRANDFATHERS FOR FASCISM IN UKRAINE!
*"He who wants to live must fight, and he who does not want to offer resistance in this eternal world battle - he does not deserve the right to life.
Adolf Hitler
GALICIAN-SS GOES INTO BATTLE!"


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Fucking separatist terrorists 

Before










After 

http://www.dermandar.com/p/atXaqB


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Al Borland said:


> Fucking separatist terrorists
> 
> Before
> 
> ...


Yes, the Nazi scum of the Kiev junta's genocidal punitive battalions did a hell of alot of destruction, but they will lose in the end and pay dearly for their war crimes against the people of Donetsk and Lugansk.

DEATH TO POROSHENKO & THE FASCIST JUNTA

СМЕРТЬ ПОРОШЕНКО И ФАШИСТСКОЙ ХУНТЕ​


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Batko10 said:


> Yes, the Nazi scum of the Kiev junta's genocidal punitive battalions did a hell of alot of destruction, but they will lose in the end and pay dearly for their war crimes against the people of Donetsk and Lugansk.
> 
> DEATH TO POROSHENKO & THE FASCIST JUNTA
> 
> СМЕРТЬ ПОРОШЕНКО И ФАШИСТСКОЙ ХУНТЕ​


This guy :avb3


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)




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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

Al Borland said:


> Fucking separatist terrorists
> 
> Before
> 
> ...


You're Canadian. Your country has recently been bombing Afghan school girls for a full decade. Sit the fuck down with your moralizing.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

roadkill_ said:


> You're Canadian. Your country has recently been bombing Afghan school girls for a full decade. Sit the fuck down with your moralizing.


Al Borland is responsible for bombing the Middle East? He had something to do with it? He could stop it but didn't?

If you didn't answer YES to at least one of the above questions, Al Borland's opinion is still as valid as yours on this subject, as actions committed by third parties that have no affiliation with the subject in no way make their opinion invalid.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

THIS IS WHAT THE WEST SUPPORTS IN UKRAINE








Let them lie, moralize, and bullshit all they want - this is what the West supports in Ukraine. The coup that violently overthrew the ELECTED government of Ukraine was supported, if not engineered, by Washington. The same people that Washington used on the Maidan are now being used to wage war and commit genocide in the East. 

The attitude on Capitol Hill is that Nazis are OK as long as they support the American and NATO agenda of hegemony.

- Mike


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

The Manowarrior said:


> Al Borland is responsible for bombing the Middle East? He had something to do with it? He could stop it but didn't?
> 
> If you didn't answer YES to at least one of the above questions, Al Borland's opinion is still as valid as yours on this subject, as actions committed by third parties that have no affiliation with the subject in no way make their opinion invalid.


You may not know this but everyone in this forum is a world leader and totally not just random people who get run down for having a different view even though we have no real power 

It was just coincidence but this place now has more nation head than the UN

For instance I am the president of Chad










vote Déby, I have unlimited terms so its not like you don't have to


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> THIS IS WHAT THE WEST SUPPORTS IN UKRAINE
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Talk about Nazis, Putins bland invasion & annexation of Crimea would have made Hitler proud.
I don't think its in Ukraines long term interest to snuggle up to the USA/NATO, and I certainly don't think we should even consider going to war over Ukraine. Far too close to the bears nest. But to try to maintain that Putin is some knight in shining armor is ludicrous, he is as agenda motivated as anyone else.

As far as the violent coup, that was the people speaking, was it not ? The "leader" they threw out was nothing more than a corrupt, old school Soviet shill.


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

roadkill_ said:


> You're Canadian. Your country has recently been bombing Afghan school girls for a full decade. Sit the fuck down with your moralizing.


Because I'm responsible for the actions of the Canadian government

If that's the case should you be held responsible for the 258 men killed for a shitty island? Or how about instigating the Iraq War? :banderas


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

HornSnaggle said:


> Talk about Nazis, Putins bland invasion & annexation of Crimea would have made Hitler proud.
> I don't think its in Ukraines long term interest to snuggle up to the USA/NATO, and I certainly don't think we should even consider going to war over Ukraine. Far too close to the bears nest. But to try to maintain that Putin is some knight in shining armor is ludicrous, he is as agenda motivated as anyone else.
> 
> *As far as the violent coup, that was the people speaking, was it not ? *The "leader" they threw out was nothing more than a corrupt, old school Soviet shill.


The coup was a violent uprising by a minority of the people who went into the streets rioting and killing, because they knew that they would not have the votes to win the presidential elections that were to come up in a year.

The ELECTED leader that they violently overthrew (Yanukovich) was indeed corrupt, but no more so than the previous leaders such as Presidents Yushchenko and Kuchma, and Pime Minister Timoshenko. The difference was only in the fact that Yushchenko, Kuchma, and Timoshenko were pro-West, but Yanukovich was pro-East.

Putin may not be a knight in shining armor, but once the Maidan insurgents overthrew the ELECTED government and trashed the Constitution of Ukraine each region had the option to make a choice to support the illegal Kiev junta or secede. The people of Crimea voted to secede and joined Russia. The people of Lugansk and Donetsk also voted to secede and are fighting for their freedom as we speak. The people in regions like Odessa were burned alive and put down by intimidation and are forcibly still held by the Kiev junta.

- Mike


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> The coup was a violent uprising by a minority of the people who went into the streets rioting and killing, because they knew that they would not have the votes to win the presidential elections that were to come up in a year.


If I recall correctly, the violence was initiated by Russian trained snipers shooting indiscriminately into the crowd killing dozens. 



> The ELECTED leader that they violently overthrew (Yanukovich) was indeed corrupt, but no more so than the previous leaders such as Presidents Yushchenko and Kuchma, and Pime Minister Timoshenko. The difference was only in the fact that Yushchenko, Kuchma, and Timoshenko were pro-West, but Yanukovich was pro-East.
> 
> Putin may not be a knight in shining armor, but once the Maidan insurgents overthrew the ELECTED government and trashed the Constitution of Ukraine each region had the option to make a choice to support the illegal Kiev junta or secede. The people of Crimea voted to secede and joined Russia. The people of Lugansk and Donetsk also voted to secede and are fighting for their freedom as we speak. The people in regions like Odessa were burned alive and put down by intimidation and are forcibly still held by the Kiev junta.
> 
> - Mike


Crimeans "voted" under occupation, under duress and at the point of a gun - The "vote" and subsequent annexation are recognized by very few in the international community. 
Pretty much the same for other regions in the east, they are naturally going to say yes to whoever it is pointing a gun at them. You would, so would I. Take away the Soviet trained troops and armor, I think you might have very different sentiments, though doubtless some areas have a natural/historical/cultural affinity with Russia. By that logic, should Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and California be conceded back to mexico ?

I'm mixed about this, I'd like to see these people get done what is best for their long term interests.
Getting cozy with USA, I don't think so. Submit to being dominated and occupied by the successors of the evil regime that massacred 1,000,000's of their ancestors ? I don't think so either.


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

HornSnaggle said:


> If I recall correctly, the violence was initiated by Russian trained snipers shooting indiscriminately into the crowd killing dozens.
> .


What you recall was a false flag - subsequent investigations have put the blame of snipers on forces who wanted Berkut to be blamed and Yanukovich driven out.

_"...Musiy, who spent more than two months organizing medical units on Maidan, said that on Feb. 20 roughly 40 civilians and protesters were brought in with fatal bullet wounds to the makeshift hospital set up near the square. But he said medics also treated three police officers whose wounds were identical.

Forensic evidence, in particular the similarity of the bullet wounds, led him and others to conclude that snipers were targeting both sides of the standoff at Maidan — and that the shootings were intended to generate a wave of revulsion so strong that it would topple Yanukovych and also justify a Russian invasion..."
*http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukrain...lse-flag-operation-who-is-the-culprit/5372680*

"Germany's first national channel, TV ARD, published a blockbuster report on the Maidan snipers affair, titled "Doubts About Reports of Maidan Snipers," on its primetime policy special "Monitor" on Thursday night... 
...the Berkut were taken entirely by surprise by the snipers' action." 
*http://archive.larouchepac.com/node/30453
*_




HornSnaggle said:


> Crimeans "voted" under occupation, under duress and at the point of a gun - The "vote" and subsequent annexation are recognized by very few in the international community.
> Pretty much the same for other regions in the east, they are naturally going to say yes to whoever it is pointing a gun at them. .


I think that even the propagandists in Washington don't believe that. There was no duress. The people in Crimea were ecstatic to get Russian support to get out of the Kiev junta's clutches.

If you seriously believe that the people in Donetsk and Lugansk do not want independence and say "yes to whoever is pointing a gun at them..." you don't understand the people there at all. Poroshenko and his einsatzgruppen genocidal battalions such as Azov are pointing guns, bombs, and heavy artillery at them, but they are still fighting for their freedom.

*CRIMEANS CELEBRATE SECESSION FROM UKRAINE AND REUNIFICATION WITH RUSSIA LAST YEAR*


















*PEOPLE IN DONETSK RALLY FOR SECESSION FROM UKRAINE*









*PEOPLE OF LUGANSK RALLY FOR SECESSION FROM UKRAINE*









*"PEOPLE'S MILITIA OF DONBAS" - THE PEOPLE OF DONETSK & LUGANSK FIGHT FOR THEIR FREEDOM!*













HornSnaggle said:


> Getting cozy with USA, I don't think so. Submit to being dominated and occupied by the successors of the evil regime that massacred 1,000,000's of their ancestors ? I don't think so either.


Submit to being dominated by the Western Ukrainian successors to the collaborators who fought for Hitler is not an option. The people that are running the junta in Kiev are the descendants of the Western Ukrainians who fought for the Galician SS and the fascist Ukrainian Insurgent Army that murdered nearly 100,000 non-combatant civilian Poles in Vohynia and Galicia, and tens of thousands of non-combatant civilian Jews, Russians, and Ukrainians in Ukraine during WW II.

The neo-Nazi version of their grandfathers' SS is committing a genocide in the East and intimidating other regions into temporary silence by burning alive anti-junta resistors in Odessa, beating and imprisoning politicians who won't support the Kiev junta, banning the two largest political parties in the country, etc.

*RECENT CEREMONY IN LVIV: WESTERN UKRAINIANS IN NAZI UNIFORMS RE-INTERN NAZIS KILLED DURING WW II*


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> What you recall was a false flag - subsequent investigations have put the blame of snipers on forces who wanted Berkut to be blamed and Yanukovich driven out.
> 
> _"...Musiy, who spent more than two months organizing medical units on Maidan, said that on Feb. 20 roughly 40 civilians and protesters were brought in with fatal bullet wounds to the makeshift hospital set up near the square. But he said medics also treated three police officers whose wounds were identical.
> 
> ...


False flag theories were floating about right from the go, as they always do - I'm sure I could google up links pointing to precisely the opposite conclusion, and I tend to believe them.
Why would a corrupt despot under siege in his palace open fire on his besiegers ? Why would Russians want to brutally quell any opposition to their hand picked puppet with violence ? Hmmm, I wonder ...... ???





> I think that even the propagandists in Washington don't believe that. There was no duress. The people in Crimea were ecstatic to get Russian support to get out of the Kiev junta's clutches.


Uh huh - and I can point you to pics of Iraqis celebrating in the streets and toppling statues of Saddam. Your continued use of slanderous buzzwords and even evoking the ghost of Hitler hardly makes you look very objective, in fact you seem to get your talking points straight from putin.com



> If you seriously believe that the people in Donetsk and Lugansk do not want independence and say "yes to whoever is pointing a gun at them..." you don't understand the people there at all. Poroshenko and his einsatzgruppen genocidal battalions such as Azov are pointing guns, bombs, and heavy artillery at them, but they are still fighting for their freedom.
> 
> *CRIMEANS CELEBRATE SECESSION FROM UKRAINE AND REUNIFICATION WITH RUSSIA LAST YEAR*
> 
> ...


"Independence" in the form of becoming a beholden Soviet proxy ? Hate to be the one to break the news, they have already been down that road.






> Submit to being dominated by the Western Ukrainian successors to the collaborators who fought for Hitler is not an option. The people that are running the junta in Kiev are the descendants of the Western Ukrainians who fought for the Galician SS and the fascist Ukrainian Insurgent Army that murdered nearly 100,000 non-combatant civilian Poles in Vohynia and Galicia, and tens of thousands of non-combatant civilian Jews, Russians, and Ukrainians in Ukraine during WW II.
> 
> The neo-Nazi version of their grandfathers' SS is committing a genocide in the East and intimidating other regions into temporary silence by burning alive anti-junta resistors in Odessa, beating and imprisoning politicians who won't support the Kiev junta, banning the two largest political parties in the country, etc.
> 
> *RECENT CEREMONY IN LVIV: WESTERN UKRAINIANS IN NAZI UNIFORMS RE-INTERN NAZIS KILLED DURING WW II*


And the people in the Kremlin are direct successors of Stalin - Little wonder why many there don't suffer from the commie hero worship that you do.

Stalin's Forced Famine 1932-33 7,000,000 Deaths

Joseph Stalin, leader of the Soviet Union, set in motion events designed to cause a famine in the Ukraine to destroy the people there seeking independence from his rule. As a result, an estimated 7,000,000 persons perished in this farming area, known as the breadbasket of Europe, with the people deprived of the food they had grown with their own hands.

http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/genocide/stalin.htm


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Fuck Batko's neo-Soviet terrorists

Azov Battalion are the real heroes of the East










They helped release Mariupol from Russian terrorists


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

HornSnaggle said:


> Why would Russians want to brutally quell any opposition to their hand picked puppet with violence ? Hmmm, I wonder ...... ???


Precisely - why would Russia want to brutally quell opposition to a pro-east Ukrainian president who was voted in by a majority of Ukrainians in what even the West said was a legitimate election back in 2010? Why would they give the West the opportunity to point fingers and make martyrs of the insurgents??

On the other hand, why would the United States not back, if not engineer, a bloody coup to oust the ELECTED Ukrainian President??? The U.S. has myriad experience engineering and instigating regime changes in countries that won't kow-tow to Washington's diktat. Could it be that Washington wanted to move NATO even further east???




HornSnaggle said:


> Uh huh - and I can point you to pics of Iraqis celebrating in the streets and toppling statues of Saddam. Your continued use of slanderous buzzwords and even evoking the ghost of Hitler hardly makes you look very objective, in fact you seem to get your talking points straight from putin.com


Iraqis celebrating in the street are irrelevant to this discussion.

My use of "slanderous buzzwords" and "evoking the ghost of Hitler" is calling a spade a spade. My talking points are taken out of history - both the history of the Western Ukrainian collaboration with Hitler's Nazis and today's unfolding history of Western Ukrainian neo-Nazis who occupy key positions in the government and make up the overwhelming majority of troops in the punitive battalions of the National Guard. 

It would seem that you get your "talking points" straight from the Washington Post or the NY Times. 




HornSnaggle said:


> "Independence" in the form of becoming a beholden Soviet proxy ? Hate to be the one to break the news, they have already been down that road.


I hate to break the news to you, but the people in the regions of Donbas, Lugansk, Odessa, Kharkov, Mikolayev, Dnepropetrovsk, Zaporozhia, and Kherson would go down that road again to get away from oppression of the American puppets of the Kiev junta and their neo-Nazi thugs.




HornSnaggle said:


> Stalin's Forced Famine 1932-33 7,000,000 Deaths
> Joseph Stalin, leader of the Soviet Union, set in motion events designed to cause a famine in the Ukraine to destroy the people there seeking independence from his rule. As a result, an estimated 7,000,000 persons perished in this farming area, known as the breadbasket of Europe, with the people deprived of the food they had grown with their own hands.
> 
> http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/genocide/stalin.htm


The Famine of 1932-33 was not a "forced famine." It was a famine caused by nature and claimed the lives of about one million Ukrainians and one million Russians living in southern Russia. If you have ever read "The Grapes of Wrath" you would know that at the same time a typical dust bowl situation had hit other parts of the world including the United States.

Admittedly, lack of ideological flexibility and bad planning contributed to unnecessary suffering. However, even the "father" of the "forced famine" myth, pseudo historian Robert Conquest, backed off on his original statements that the famine was deliberately created. His numbers of deaths also seemed to fluctuate depending on his circumstances. Originally, he claimed that 4 million had perished in the famine. By the time Conquest worked for the Reagan administration that number grew to around 10 million.

Since Ukraine's population was only 24 million according to the 1930 census, Conquest's figure of 10 million was absurd.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

THE NAZI BUTCHERS OF THE AZOV BATTALION​
"*AZOV - GLORY TO THE NAZIS*"









*"NAZI ARTYOM BONOV - MEMBER OF THE AZOV BATTALION"*









"*NEW RECRUIT *"









*BALACLAVA HOODED NAZI THUGS OF THE AZOV BATTALION TAKE OATH IN KIEV*










AMONG THE PRISONERS ARE CAPTURED AZOV POWS AFTER AZOV BATTALION WAS CRUSHED IN THE BATTLE OF IOLAIVSK


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Batko's nightmare communism being smashed


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

AL BORLAND'S RECURRING NIGHTMARES​
*AL'S WESTERN UKRAINIAN BANDERA FOLLOWERS/NAZI COLLABORATORS SURRENDER TO THE RED ARMY, 1944*










*AL'S WESTERN UKRAINIAN NAZIS MARCHED THROUGH DONETSK AS POWS, 2014*


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Brand new airport destroyed by these fucking Russian terrorists


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

fpalm Honestly, none of you make your ideologies look better. You just make yourselves look worse.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_The subject of who destroyed the Donetsk Airport keeps popping up. Logic would dictate that the invaders who have attacked Donbas are responsible. Apparently, it turns out that some of those invaders are NOT Ukrainian, but NATO mercenaries. Dead bodies in NATO uniforms bearing western IDs were found buried in the rubble of the battle site. - Mike_

On Thursday, Eduard Basurin, DNR Deputy Defence Minister, said, “Whilst examining buildings at the Donetsk Airport, we found a great number of American firearms, assault rifles, and grenade launchers, equipment, and communications devices. We also found publications in European languages, including on religious matters. *Apart from that, we found dead bodies in NATO uniforms under the debris in the new terminal. Personal belongings indicated that these people were foreign citizens contracted by private military companies who operated under the cover of Ukrainian subversive groups”.
*
22 January 2015

ITAR-TASS

http://itar-tass.com/en/world/772859


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

The Donetsk separatists announced that they are reintroducing *death penalty for treason*. It's basically them saying "*you're either with us or we'll kill you*". Yeah, those fucktard scumbag, poor excuses for human beings make that city a place I would definitely not want to live in.

http://www.newsweek.com/donetsk-separatists-introduce-death-penalty-treason-265287


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Donetsk introduction of the death penalty for treason is old news. It was announced in August of last year. The NEWSWEEK article cited is almost 6 months old.

Interestingly, other nations that have the death penalty for treason are the *UNITED STATES* and its allies *ISRAEL,* *SOUTH KOREA*, and *SAUDI ARABIA*.

- Mike


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

PHOTO WAR


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)




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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Shelling in Mariupol: 29 people killed, 93 wounded

Russian terrorists strike again

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/shelling-in-mariupol-10-civilians-killed-46-wounded-378287.html


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Al Borland said:


> Shelling in Mariupol: 29 people killed, 93 wounded
> 
> Russian terrorists strike again
> 
> http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/shelling-in-mariupol-10-civilians-killed-46-wounded-378287.html


I wonder why Batko didn't post this. I mean, he always speaks the truth, never hides anything and always tells BOTH SIDES of the story. Right? Right?


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> I wonder why Batko didn't post this. I mean, he always speaks the truth, never hides anything and always tells BOTH SIDES of the story. Right? Right?


Incoming Batko post about how this attack was a FALSE FLAG BY THE KIEV JUNTA


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

The Manowarrior said:


> I wonder why Batko didn't post this. I mean, he always speaks the truth, never hides anything and always tells BOTH SIDES of the story. Right? Right?


Probably too busy with his Putin fan boy site today


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_The West's concern about civilian deaths in Mariupol is quite touching. Interestingly, the only time they get up in arms about civilian deaths is if they believe that they can point a finger at the Donbas militias or Russia. 

Knowing the murderous reputation of the einsatzgruppen, i.e. Azov Battalion, of the Kiev junta it is highly likely that this was a provocation as the militias have stated. 

If, in fact, it was a shelling by the Donbas militias how* come no one is screaming that the einsatzgruppen/Azov Battalion is "hiding behind civilians???*" That is the excuse that the West uses about the Donbas militias when the Kiev junta's punitive battalions massacre civilians. 

- Mike 
_

E. Ukraine militia denies shelling Mariupol, accuses Kiev of provocation

Published time: January 24, 2015 16:51 

The death toll in the Mariupol shelling in eastern Ukraine has reached at least 30 people, local authorities say. Kiev and the militia are trading blame. The rebels insist they don’t have weapons close enough to attack the city.

“Twenty-three people died at the scene, including one child. Another 93 people have been injured, including eight children,” a statement from local authorities said. Another seven people died in hospitals, it added. But Ukrainian Interior Minister Arsen Avakov later said that 102 people have sustained injuries. 

Two children – a 15-year old girl and a boy “about five years old” are among the dead, the statement reads. 

“*Our militias have no weapon systems near Mariupol that would be able to shell that region. Our positions are simply too far away,” *a spokesman for the Donetsk militia headquarters told RIA Novosti. 

“*According to our intelligence, the artillery fired from the Stariy Krim neighborhood [less than 10 kilometers from central Mariupol]. Ukrainian troops are stationed there. We believe it was a provocation committed by the Ukrainian troops,”* the spokesman added. 

The deputy speaker of the DPR parliament, Denis Pushilin, has called the artillery shelling in Mariupol “yet another provocation” by Kiev who are pushing “the development of the situation in the military direction.” 

"*It is all clear, who shelled Mariupol: from which regions they are, from which spot and where the artillery was located. As far as I know, [rockets were] fired by a Grad multiple rocket launcher. Our militia units don’t have artillery capable of reaching the location of the shelling,” *Pushilin said. 

The comment comes after a local Ukrainian Interior Ministry official accused their opponents of shelling the city some 110 kilometers south of the militia stronghold in Donetsk.*The assessment was confirmed by Eduard Basurin, a military official in the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic, who told RT that the rebel forces are not conducting any offensive on Mariupol at the moment...*

* http://rt.com/news/225891-mariupol-eastern-ukraine-shelling/*


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> _The West's concern about civilian deaths in Mariupol is quite touching. Interestingly, the only time they get up in arms about civilian deaths is if they believe that they can point a finger at the Donbas militias or Russia.
> 
> Knowing the murderous reputation of the einsatzgruppen, i.e. Azov Battalion, of the Kiev junta it is highly likely that this was a provocation as the militias have stated.
> 
> ...


Quite a history of denials coming from the Soviets and their proxies

MH17 crash: Did Russia pull the trigger? Ukraine says yes

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/22/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

http://uatoday.tv/news/russian-backed-insurgents-have-begun-a-military-offensive-in-mariupol-says-insurgent-leader-alexander-zakharchenko-404871.html

Alexander Zakharchenko admits they did it :toomanykobes


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

I will admit it, I did it










don't underestimate the power of Chad


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

HornSnaggle said:


> Quite a history of denials coming from the Soviets and their proxies
> 
> MH17 crash: Did Russia pull the trigger? Ukraine says yes


MH17 crash: Did Ukraine pull the trigger? History points to a very strong possibility of a yes. 

In 2001 Ukraine shot down a Siberian Airlines passenger jet traveling from Tel Aviv to Krasnoyarsk killing all 178 passengers and crew. Ukraine denied all responsibility and obfuscated for months before finally admitting its guilt.

The bunch running the Kiev junta today has even less regard for human life.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> http://uatoday.tv/news/russian-backed-insurgents-have-begun-a-military-offensive-in-mariupol-says-insurgent-leader-alexander-zakharchenko-404871.html
> 
> Alexander Zakharchenko admits they did it :toomanykobes


In fact, Zakharchenko stated that the militia began a military attack on Kiev junta positions in Mariupol and that they were going to get revenge for the atrocities commited in Donetsk. However, he did NOT admit firing rockets or artillery into the Mariupol residential area. He stated, 

_"Until now, we weren’t conducting any operations outside Mariupol. We’re saving strength,” Zakharchenko was cited by RIA-Novosti news agency as saying.

“But now, *after Kiev decided to shift the blame on us for its erroneous fire from Grad multiple rocket launchers at residential areas [in Mariupol]*, I gave an order to suppress the positions of the Ukrainian military, stationed east of Mariupol,” he added._

The quotes you took from the Ukrainian junta news source were isolated and taken out of context by that source and might make it appear that Zakharchenko admitted the rocket attack. Actually, the first sentence in the junta report is a lie. I did not see any other news report quoting Zakharchenko as stating the militias initiated the rocket attack.

Additional reports indicate that the Kiev junta has launched another wave of attacks on Donetsk Airport despite 6 armored assaults being defeated last weekend. Donetsk Militia commander Basurin commented:

_Earlier, a DPR military official, Eduard Basurin, said that the Kiev forces have renewed their attempts to retake the strategically significant Donetsk airport on Saturday.

“The Ukrainian military is trying to attack from the north, west and east. Hostilities are underway at the airport,”Basurin said, as cited by Interfax news agency.
_ 

- Mike


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> MH17 crash: Did Ukraine pull the trigger? History points to a very strong possibility of a yes.
> 
> In 2001 Ukraine shot down a Siberian Airlines passenger jet traveling from Tel Aviv to Krasnoyarsk killing all 178 passengers and crew. Ukraine denied all responsibility and obfuscated for months before finally admitting its guilt.
> 
> ...


Mmm hmm, as opposed to the saints in the kremlin calling the shots, always known for their high regard of human life - Ok, "lol", there ya go.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

NOTES FROM THE FRONT​
_After his blunder of reopening hostilities has backfired on him, porky Poroshenko is calling for everyone to observe the Minsk Agreement which he violated last weekend with a failed mass attack on Donetsk Airport.

I wonder if the porker would be calling for observing the cease fire if the storm of Donetsk Airport had gone his way? Apparently, things are not going very well for the chocolate king right now as reports coming from the front would seem to indicate.

- Mike 
_
http://svpressa.ru/war21/article/110850/

DONBAS HAS GONE ON THE OFFENSIVE!

*The people's militias of Novorossiya are striking along the entire front*.








[/IMG]
24 January 2014, 17:45 hours / Andrei Polunin

Krasny Partizan and Gorlovka

On Saturday morning, Vladislav Brig, Deputy of the DNR People’s Soviet and Deputy Chairman of the People’s Soviet Foreign Affairs Committee, confirmed that the VSN offensive went in three different directions, saying, “*Today, the junta withdrew its troops from Dzerzhinsk. In the Lugansk Peoples Republic Cossacks and “Prizrak” advanced on Popasnaya and Troitse, trapping junta forces in a pocket. Another pocket is forming near Debaltsevo. Near Gorlovka, the VSN took Krasnaya Partizan and Troitse, and it’s clearing out Sumy*. I understand that the offensive would go on towards Mariupol”.

*Later on, near noon, reports came in that Krasny Partizan had fallen*. DNR sources said, “Junta forces and Right Sector elements occupied Krasny Partizan between Donetsk and Gorlovka. Our forces asked them to leave the village before storming it, but the bandits refused to accept our offer. Junta forces lost a few dead in the ensuing operation, the rest fled or surrendered. Afterwards, the VSN shelled Yasinovataya from positions in Krasny Partizan. *As the frontline moves away from Donetsk, the number of attacks and shelling on the city diminishes*”.

The taking of Krasny Partizan didn’t mean that the offensive was over. According to Yevgeni from the VSN Vostok Brigade, on Saturday, the garrison of Gorlovka (the day before, junta artillery fired around the clock on the village, killing three civilians) stormed junta positions at the Uglegorsky Reservoir. Yevgeni said that this was a must-have target.* The Gorlovka garrison repulsed a junta armoured attack backed by BM-21 Grad MRLs*.

On Mariupol

That same morning, near Mariupol, junta forces fired Grads at VSN positions; an artillery duel ensued. *Soon, reports came in that the VSN began freeing Mariupol and that the junta forces were in retreat*. Rustam Temirgaliev, former Deputy Prime Minister of the Republic of the Crimea posted on his Facebook page, “They’re 280 kilometres away from the Crimea”. Later, DNR Chairman Zakharchenko confirmed that the VSN was on the offensive near Mariupol. Dmitri Steshin, a Komsomolskaya Pravda war correspondent, commented, “*The left bank of Mariupol is on fire. They say that the Azov Battalion fled in panic*”.

*In an attempt to hide their defeat, the bandits shelled the eastern outskirts of Mariupol, and blamed it on the VSN*. MVDU sources alleged that shells exploded near shops and markets, killing 20 people and about 80 went to hospital with fragment wounds. 

The VSN categorically rejected any involvement in the shelling, stating, “*The VSN near Mariupol has no artillery systems that could bombard the specified area, as it’s too far from our positions to the specified place*. According to our information, the fire came from Stary Krym Raion, where there are junta positions. According to our current information, one can assume that this was a junta provocation”. 

Irina Gudyma, an OSCE representative, stated that the OSCE sent a special monitoring mission to the place where the shellfire took place, saying, “Later on, we’ll release a report on the operational situation”. Meanwhile, the artillery duels near Mariupol didn’t subside. The Forward Edge of the Battle Area (FEBA) moved steadily nearer to the city. In particular, fighting raged near Vinogradnoe, on the coast, south of the Novoazovsk road. In a northeasterly direction, an artillery duel went back and forth, 6-10 kilometres from Mariupol Ilyich Steelworks.

The Junta Throws in its Reserves

Meanwhile, the junta hastily threw in reserves. *Convoys from Dnepropetrovsk and Kharkov Oblasts moved towards Donetsk and Svetlodarsk. Residents Krasnoarmeisk, Artemovska, Kramatorsk, and Konstantinovka confirmed redeployment of junta units*. 

According to VSN intel, near Donetsk, the bandits transferred a unit of 300 troops to Konstantinovka from near Gorlovka, reinforced by 10 tanks and a mortar battery {this is the combat elements of a motor rifle battalion with a tank company attached: editor}. Presumably, it came from the 90 Airmobile Brigade. In addition, in Vodyanoe, six kilometres northwest of Donetsk, a junta battalion arrived, reinforced by nine tanks and artillery. Near Lugansk, in Orekhovo-Donetsk, the junta also transferred two battalion battlegroups, perhaps, from 80 Airmobile Brigade. 

How will the VSN further develop the offensive? We can see the flashpoints today. In the near term, perhaps, one could see fighting in Peski, partly occupied by the VSN and partly occupied by the bandits, and Avdeyevka, which remains under junta control. Doubtlessly, there’d be heavy fighting for Gorlovka and Debaltsevo… as it’s a strategically important town on the motorway between Donetsk and Lugansk, and it’d hem in the junta forces.. It’s logical to assume that the VSN would strike out of Debaltsevo towards Lisichansk and Severodonetsk. *However, the main question is whether the VSN will punch a corridor to the west, to open up an overland route to the Crimea*.


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Following the massive attacks of today to Mariupol and some positions of the regiment “Azov” certain unserious and biased media reported that the regiment “ran away” from the battlefield.

Well…here we send greetings from the forward positions in front, more willing and ready than ever. It is also a pleasure to announce that we have our leader Andrei Beletsky between us.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

It sounds like American soldiers/mercenaries are in Mariupol and have probably been fighting alongside the Kiev junta's einsatzgruppen for some time in Donbas.

At the 23 second mark you hear the American mercenary/soldier telling the reporter to "Get out of my face, get out of may face" in perfect American English with absolutely no accent.





Military-clad English-speakers caught on camera in Mariupol shelling aftermath


Published time: January 25, 2015 15:12 

Armed people in uniform speaking fluent English with no accent have been spotted in Mariupol in the aftermath of the rocket hit, fuelling allegations that foreign private military contractors are serving among Ukrainian troops...

The man holds a carbine in his hand and is wearing a tactical vest. As the correspondent points her microphone with a request to comment, the man covers his face with the other hand and says, “Out my face, out my face!” 

http://rt.com/news/226079-ukraine-foreign-military-mariupol/


Another english speaking mercenary in Mariupol

24th January 2015, city Mariupol, occupied territory of Donetsk republic.Two foreign mercenaries were found today in the Kiev junta videos from city Mariupol. *This moron is from Neonazi Battalion "Azov"....*










http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3bf_1422135521


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

Getting to the point where the only ones in the world that recognize the bloody Soviet proxies known as "rebels" are Russia, Cuba, North Korea & Batko10.

``````````````````````````

Pressure mounts on Russia as Ukraine rebels launch bloody offensive


The mayor of Mariupol's office said 97 people were also wounded by dozens of long-distance rockets that smashed into a packed residential district and open market early in the morning and then again shortly after noon.

"Obviously, everyone in the city is very scared," Mariupol native Eduard told AFP.

A fellow resident named Pavlo described dazed survivors helping wounded victims to climb out of the concrete rubble of Soviet-era apartment blocks and navigate streets strewn with shattered glass.

Leader of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic Alexander Zakharchenko on Saturday claimed that "today, we launched an offensive against Mariupol".

He later denied ordering an actual invasion of the industrial Sea of Azov port of half million and his deputy rejected responsibility for the civilian deaths.

But the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) said the Grad and Uragan rocket fire came from two locations "controlled by the 'Donetsk People's Republic'".

The attack on the last Kiev-controlled major city in Ukraine's restive east drew ire from Western leaders who blame Moscow for stoking the conflict that has claimed more than 5,000 lives.

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko -- a pro-Western leader who cut short a trip to Saudi Arabia to chair an emergency National Security and Defence Council meeting in Kiev on Sunday -- vowed to "defend our motherland the way real patriots do -- until a full victory".

http://news.yahoo.com/pressure-mounts-russia-ukraine-rebels-launch-offensive-062148314.html


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Porky Poroshenko is telling the EU that he is going to "calm down" the fighting - after he started it last weekend!!! I wonder how that will turn out for him???

- Mike


NOTES FROM THE FRONT​
*POPASNAYA TAKEN - 8,000 KIEV JUNTA TROOPS TRAPPED IN DEBALTSEVO POCKET*

Today, the VSN took Popasnaya, trapping 8,000 junta soldiers in the Debaltsevo pocket. The Debaltsevo-Artemovsk road isn’t blocked, but the artillery of both sides sweep it, which reduces the opportunity to drive on it to practically nil. 

Those in the pocket seem to be stupid, they don’t seem to realise anything; the junta leadership didn’t make the slightest effort to extricate their troops from the pocket, even after the VSN’s offensive direction became clear. The Ukrainian “leadership” hasn’t learned anything… it’s the same as it was during the summer. 

*This time, the pocket doesn’t border Russia… the Russians treated the junta soldiers well, saw to it that they got washed up, gave them food and new clothing, and sent them home at their expense*. Today, they face the VSN, angered by the evil that the fascist invaders did in the Donbass.

25 January 2015

Politikus.ru

http://politikus.ru/events/41257-popasnaya-vzyata-v-kotle-v-debalcevo-8000-ukrainskih-soldat.html


*KIEV JUNTA'S NEO-NAZI TERRORISTS DESTROY ORTHODOX MONASTERY FOR SPITE*






Junta artillery turned the Iveron Orthodox Monastery in Donetsk into rubble. The Kiev junta's shells still hit the ruins of the historical and architectural monument. Along the entire length of the battleline, the junta forces are shelling patriot territory. After many months of shelling by the thugs of the junta's punitive battalions not only are the exterior walls destroyed, the entirety of the buildings are in ruins.

23 January 2015

Rusvesna

http://rusvesna.su/news/1422037767


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

It's not only ironic, but it's truly beyond belief that Poroshenko, the leader of the Kiev junta that recognizes Stepan Bandera as a hero and holds other Nazi collaborators in high esteem, is taking part in the Auschwitz ceremonies. Even more baffling is the fact that Putin, the leader of the country that liberated Auschwitz in WW II, was not invited and not taking part. 

Seriously, like him or hate him, Putin represents the nation and army that liberated Auschwitz and many other Nazi death camps. Meanwhile, the Ukrainian government run by Poroshenko and the Kiev junta *openly and unabashedly recognizes fascist Stepan Bandera as a hero*. They praise the Ukrainian Insurgent Army that* murdered nearly 100,000 Poles in Galicia and Volhynia*. And, their punitive battalions such as "Azov" in Donbas *openly flaunt swastikas and other Nazi symbols*. 

The West has truly created a modern day "Alice in Wonderland" regarding WW II.

- Mike 


Holocaust commemoration marred by political posturing

Published time: January 27, 2015 09:45 

Many nations on Tuesday are commemorating the crimes of the Holocaust by Nazi Germany. An international gathering at the Auschwitz death camp in Poland *is missing the leader of the nation, whose predecessor liberated its prisoners 70 years ago...
*
The meeting of foreign dignitaries in Poland is marred by the political crisis which plunged relations between Russia and Western nations to their worst point since the Cold War. *Poland chose not to invite Russian President Vladimir Putin to Auschwitz in an apparent political move to highlight his position...* 

http://rt.com/news/226543-poland-auschwitz-commemoration-putin/


Putin Says Attempts to Rewrite History Are Driven by Desire to Hide Shame

_As the international community marks International Holocaust Remembrance Day, Russian President Vladimir Putin stressed that it is important to remember all historical facts. He also reminded that members of Ukrainian nationalist Bandera movement and other collaborators were involved in the destruction of the Jewish people during WWII.
_
MOSCOW, January 27 (Sputnik) — Any attempt to rewrite history is unacceptable, because it is often driven by a desire to hide shame and complicity with the Nazis, Russian President Vladimir Putin on January 27, as the international community marks International Holocaust Remembrance Day...

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150127/1017414285.html


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

*Alexander Litvinenko accused Vladimir Putin of being a 'paedophile who ordered his murder'*

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...o-accused-vladimir-putin-5051412?clearcache=1

I don't even know. Not sure if this is to be believed, but that's interesting accusations nonetheless. Make of this what you will.


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## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

"Paedophile" is the go-to insult to really make a political figure or other famous person look bad. Always take it with a grain of salt, no matter who it is.


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## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

vladimir putin is a great man and world leader.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

I was watching "To Catch a Predator" and Putin walked in with wine coolers and condoms


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> It's not only ironic, but it's truly beyond belief that Poroshenko, the leader of the Kiev junta that recognizes Stepan Bandera as a hero and holds other Nazi collaborators in high esteem, is taking part in the Auschwitz ceremonies. Even more baffling is the fact that Putin, the leader of the country that liberated Auschwitz in WW II, was not invited and not taking part.
> 
> Seriously, like him or hate him, Putin represents the nation and army that liberated Auschwitz and many other Nazi death camps.


Also represents the brutal regime which held Poland in bondage for decades and slaughtered 10,000's of their citizens, might have something to do with it 




The Manowarrior said:


> *Alexander Litvinenko accused Vladimir Putin of being a 'paedophile who ordered his murder'*
> 
> http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...o-accused-vladimir-putin-5051412?clearcache=1
> 
> I don't even know. Not sure if this is to be believed, but that's interesting accusations nonetheless. Make of this what you will.


Pedo accusation might hold some water, not many men would go spontaneously licking little boys bellies in public


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*Nazi Germany murdered nearly 3 million ethnic Poles and 3 million Jews in Poland from 1939 to 1945*. If past grievances were the reason for not inviting Putin to the Auschwitz ceremonies then the Germans also would not have been invited.

No, it would appear that Poland is acting under orders from those in the West that pull its strings and deliberately chose to not invite the liberators of Auschwitz in order to make a statement and further the Western agenda.

To add further insult Poroshenko, the leader of the Kiev junta that considers Ukrainian Nazi collaborators as heroes, was invited and present! It's pretty obvious what's going on. 

- Mike


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> *Nazi Germany murdered nearly 3 million ethnic Poles and 3 million Jews in Poland from 1939 to 1945*. If past grievances were the reason for not inviting Putin to the Auschwitz ceremonies then the Germans also would not have been invited.
> 
> No, it would appear that Poland is acting under orders from those in the West that pull its strings and deliberately chose to not invite the liberators of Auschwitz in order to make a statement and further the Western agenda.
> 
> ...


Fair points.
Not sure they are "acting under orders from the west", in view of events in living memory if you can't see why Poles are nervous about Russia tinkering with borders very close to their frontiers then you are not being very realistic.

Putin didn't personally have any more to do with liberating Polish territory in WW2 than me or you - And if invited, he likely would have snubbed and not showed.
"The Holocaust" had become heavily politicized and commercialized even before the war ended, so these events should come as no big shocker. People still know just who liberated Polish camps, though a Russian "liberation" was and is certainly a dubious honor for any country unfortunate enough to experience it.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

HornSnaggle said:


> Fair points.
> Not sure they are "acting under orders from the west", in view of events in living memory if you can't see why Poles are nervous about Russia tinkering with borders very close to their frontiers then you are not being very realistic.
> 
> Putin didn't personally have any more to do with liberating Polish territory in WW2 than me or you - And if invited, he likely would have snubbed and not showed.
> "The Holocaust" had become heavily politicized and commercialized even before the war ended, so these events should come as no big shocker. People still know just who liberated Polish camps, though a Russian "liberation" was and is certainly a dubious honor for any country unfortunate enough to experience it.


The ones who have been "tinkering" with borders are NATO who, over the last two decades, has moved its border right up to Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia. The construction of a missile shield on those borders by the U.S. goes beyond "tinkering" and you are the one being unrealistic if you can't see Russia and Belarus getting nervous about that.

While Putin personally didn't have anything to do with liberating the death camps he is the highest ranking representative of the nation that did liberate them. As such he should have been invited. He would not have refused to attend. But, if he did, then it would have been on him.

Commercialized? Politicized?? I can't believe that you said that. In order to forward its agenda, over the last two decades the West has been revising WW II history and softening its recollection of the brutality of the war crimes committed by the Nazis. This only serves to encourage neo-Nazis and insults the memory of the victims of Nazism. 

Majdanek death camp was the first one the Red Army discovered and liberated as it drove the Werhmacht out of the USSR and to the West. It is a historical fact that the western leaders and media did not believe the Kremlin and thought that they were exagerating the horrors that were discovered there.

We should never forget those horrors of Auschwitz, Majdanek, and the myriad other death camps the Red Army liberated.

- Mike


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> The ones who have been "tinkering" with borders are NATO who, over the last two decades, has moved its border right up to Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia. The construction of a missile shield on those borders by the U.S. goes beyond "tinkering" and you are the one being unrealistic if you can't see Russia and Belarus getting nervous about that.
> 
> While Putin personally didn't have anything to do with liberating the death camps he is the highest ranking representative of the nation that did liberate them. As such he should have been invited. He would not have refused to attend. But, if he did, then it would have been on him.
> 
> ...


I agree about NATO over-reach and I agree it is provocative. 
Missile shield, though defensive I am forced to also agree is provocative. Western overtures & meddling in Ukraine affairs could also be construed as provocative ,,, But unless you deny Ukraine is a sovereign nation, then all of that is still not legit grounds for Russia to invade and annex Crimea.

I would like to see relations between USA and USSR, oops I mean Russia, greatly improve. So much more for the good of both nations could be done as friends rather than adversaries. I would like to see USA bow out of NATO and leave it for Europeans to manage, where it would obviously wither and die in short order.
So in short, while I agree with much of your sentiment I do not share your complete trust of Russian motives and do not share your hero worship of Putin, though doubtless he is a far better leader, politician and person than the current clown investing the white house - Whom I also don't trust as far as I can shit upwards.

Many people of many nations were killed by the war, including many innocent Germans, Jews don't have a lock on any mass sympathy with me.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

HornSnaggle said:


> So in short, while I agree with much of your sentiment I do not share your complete trust of Russian motives and *do not share your hero worship of Putin,* though doubtless he is a far better leader, politician and person than the current clown investing the white house - Whom I also don't trust as far as I can shit upwards.
> 
> Many people of many nations were killed by the war, including many innocent Germans, *Jews don't have a lock on any mass sympathy with me*.


First of all, there is absolutely *NO* "hero worship" regarding Putin on my part. In fact, I have more than a few problems with him. However, after the murdering, drunkard Yeltsin literally destroyed the country's economy and military during the 1990s, I have to take my hat off to Putin for cleaning up Yeltsin's mess and getting Russia off its knees.

I have never said or implied that the Jews "have a lock" on the Holocaust. The Holocaust includes not just the 6 million Jews who were murdered by the Nazis, but the 15 million Russians, 8 million Ukrainians, 3 million Byelorussians, 3 million Poles, 1 million Serbs, 1/2 million Romany (i.e., "gypsies"), among others. 

And, let's not forget that there were also 500,000 American GIs that were killed at the hands of the Nazis. 

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_The mass military conscription program instituted by the Kiev junta highlights the need to replace the large number of casualties suffered during the genocidal invasion of Donbas and the even larger number of desertions from the ranks of the regular Ukrainian Army.

The punitive battalions of the neo-Nazi National Guard, i.e. einsatzgruppen, have gone one step further and have begun drafting 16 year olds. This is against Ukrainian law, but circumventing that law doesn't seem to be a problem if it is for the "glory of Ukraine!"

The general population of Ukraine doesn't appear to agree with serving up its sons as canon fodder for that "glory." Busloads of Ukrainian young men of conscription age have been leaving Ukraine to avoid the draft. Whole villages have turned out to block the commissars from entering and delivering draft notices to men there. The draft notices have been seized, destroyed, and the commissars sent on their way by angry village parents.

Interestingly, some of the more violent incidents against the military conscription have occured in Western Ukraine where the core support of the Kiev junta is centered.

- Mike_



Ukrainians grow unwilling to serve in the army

World 
January 27, 19:46 UTC+3 

*Men from western regions are leaving for Poland and Hungary while citizens from eastern regions go to Russia
*
KIEV, January 27 /TASS/. Ukraine’s male population has massively started leaving abroad in search of jobs to dodge the current mobilization campaign.

"*Entire villages are booking buses to dispatch their men as far as possible*. Military committees are handing over the lists of fugitives to law enforcers and try to restrict the movement of men subject to conscription outside their native districts and areas," the Vesti publication wrote on Tuesday.

Natalya from Zaporizhia (south-eastern Ukraine) dispatched her son to Russia several months ago. The woman told Vesti on condition of anonymity that she had also sent her husband away (also to Russia) a week before. Men from western regions are leaving for Poland and Hungary. *The city military committee in Ukraine’s capital Kiev is also complaining about draft dodgers*.

Human resource experts are noting growing interest in vacancies abroad. "Over the past three months more than 281 job seekers interested in employment abroad, including 176 last month, have posted their CVs on our website," Tatyana Pashkina from the Rabota.ru portal said.

The authorities in the Kiev-controlled parts of the Lugansk region have recently forbidden men aged 18-60 to leave for militia-controlled territories and abroad without permission from local military committees.

Last Monday, the Belgorod-Dnestrovsky City Council /the Odessa region/ published a ban for reservists to leave the region’s territory.

The fourth round of mobilization in Ukraine kicked off on January 20. Another two are scheduled for April and June.

According to Ukrainian Defense Minister Stepan Poltorak, about 104,000 people may be mobilized in 2015.

Ukrainian army’s Chief of Staff Vladimir Talalay said that draft dodgers would face from 2 to 5 years in prison adding that *women aged 25-50 could also be drafted into the army if necessary*.

Meanwhile, Russian President Vladimir Putin said last Monday that *Russia might extend the period of sojourn in Russian territory for Ukrainians of conscription age who could be drafted into the Ukraine army*.

"Many people, by the way, do not want to be mobilized. They are trying to move to Russia and lie low for some time. And they are absolutely right because they are simply being sent under bullets like cannon fodder," Putin said at a meeting with the students of the "Gornyi" University of Mineral Resources on January 26.

At the same time, the president said Ukrainian nationals could not stay in Russia longer than for a period established by the law.

"Under a new law, Ukrainian citizens cannot stay in Russia for more than 30 days. After that they have to return to Ukraine where they are being caught and sent under the bullets again. That is why I think that we are going to change something in that law," Putin said adding the sojourn of some categories of people, especially those of conscription age, could be extended within legal framework.

http://itar-tass.com/en/world/773715



KIEV PREPARES TO THROW 16 YEAR OLDS INTO THE CONFLICT ZONE

The Right Sector and other Ukrainian ultranationalist groups are getting ready to send teens to fight in the Donbass. They gathered 16-year-olds in training camps to undergo military training. At the same time, *the official junta isn’t backing this, but it doesn’t prevent it, either*. 

*The junta’s anaemic mobilisations encourage it to ignore children’s rights, Ukrainian laws, and the low quality level of such potential fighters*. In fact, the Ukrainian army has turned into an uncontrolled mob, it’s no longer centrally organised… this “parallel call” confirms that.

LifeNews military expert Michael Timoshenko commented, “We can definitely take the information on them recruiting minors in such battalions *as evidence of violating both children’s rights and the Ukrainian laws themselves*. However, if you recall the past year’s events, these very kids screamed, «кто не скачет… тот москаль» (‘Who does not jump… he is a Moskal’) on the Maidan. Of course, now, the Right Sector is going to scoop them up, to show everyone how important it is. 

The fact that the ultranationalists had such an important role in the Maidan events cause official Kiev to look the other way, even when they clearly break Ukrainian law. *With regard to ‘teen volunteers’, it’s clearly illegal… the age of conscription is 20, and the legal age is 18.* How will the authorities prevent this though, when Poroshenko himself is on a leash? These groups would immediately gather and say, ‘It’s time for a new Maidan’… it’d all go on again, in a circle”.

*Even “President” Poroshenko admitted that the official mobilisation hasn’t been very successful*. 

The day before, President V V Putin said that the current junta army didn’t defend Ukrainian national interests, being nothing but a “NATO foreign legion”. The junta forces don’t actually protect the interests of their people; instead, they fight for chauvinism and nationalism in spite of the fact that Ukrainians want European values, so, no one wants to join them.

Timoshenko observed, “*Only half of those subject to mobilisation show up, so the government doesn’t care overly much about how they fill the shortfall*. They’re doing nothing but plugging up the holes”. Knowing about the lack of training of the Ukrainian army in the combat zone and the problems with supplies, many conscripts simply refuse to come to the assembly points, preferring to leave for Russia, where the authorities are willing to help them. 

In particular, according to President Putin, the Russian authorities will amend the laws on the length of stay of foreigners in Russia, to extend the time allowed to those who face the draft in the Ukraine.

27 January 2015

LifeNews

http://lifenews.ru/news/149000


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Batko10 said:


> First of all, there is absolutely *NO* "hero worship" regarding Putin on my part. In fact, I have more than a few problems with him. However, after the murdering, drunkard Yeltsin literally destroyed the country's economy and military during the 1990s, I have to take my hat off to Putin for cleaning up Yeltsin's mess and getting Russia off its knees.
> 
> I have never said or implied that the Jews "have a lock" on the Holocaust. The Holocaust includes not just the 6 million Jews who were murdered by the Nazis, but the 15 million Russians, 8 million Ukrainians, 3 million Byelorussians, 3 million Poles, 1 million Serbs, 1/2 million Romany (i.e., "gypsies"), among others.
> 
> ...


You forgot about the 1000000+ Germans that war criminal Eisenhower starved after the war

Also MUH 6 TRILLION


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> Commercialized? Politicized?? I can't believe that you said that. In order to forward its agenda, over the last two decades *the West has been revising WW II history and softening its recollection of the brutality of the war crimes committed by the Nazis*. This only serves to encourage neo-Nazis and insults the memory of the victims of Nazism.
> 
> - Mike


That's a bold statement. How did you come to that conclusion?


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Allur said:


> That's a bold statement. How did you come to that conclusion?


The west does not think that a secret hoard of fascists are waiting to swarm the gates 

I have seen people in Russia who honestly believe that fascism and Nazism is still super popular in Europe while at the same time somehow being controlled by "jews"

The west also views the Germans as "normal people who got swept up by a bad government and were manipulated" while Russia STILL views them as "A HORAD Of EVIL DEMONS AHHH THAT KILLLLLLL BABIES"


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> That's a bold statement. How did you come to that conclusion?


I don't think that is a bold statement by any means. The U.S. and most E.U. countries have refused to support the United Nation's anti-Nazism resolution on numerous occasions. 

Except for a few feeble comments, Washington and Brussels have ignored the neo-Nazi participation in the Maidan violence and the influence of the many openly fascist PMs and governmental heads in the Kiev junta. The use of the swastika and Nazi symbols by the National Guard and punitive battalions such as Azov are also ignored, for the most part. The same can be said regarding their reactions to the public demonstrations honoring the Waffen SS in certain Baltic countries.

If one knows the history of the United States' relations with the Nazis of Germany before and after WW II Washington's present attitude toward Nazism comes as no shock. 

Prior to WW II U.S. corporations did a thriving business with Nazi Germany. IBM, Coca-Cola, Dupont, General Motors, Ford, General Electric, ITT, and Standard Oil (today's Exxon) did big business with Nazi Germany right up to 1940. Some of the richest men in the United States were staunch supporters of the German Reich - William Randolph Hearst, Joseph Kennedy, John Rockefeller, Andrew Mellon, Allen Dulles (later head of the CIA), and Prescott Bush to name a few.

These people were not necessarily only about "business." Some, like William Randolph Hearst, were openly Nazi sympathizers and supported the Nazi policies of race superiority, anti-semitism, etc. Hearst was a friend of Joseph Goebbels, head of the Reich's propaganda arm. One out of every three Americans read a Hearst newspaper during the 1930s and was exposed to blatant Nazi propaganda funneled through Hearst from Goebbels.

After WW II the United States and Canada took in hundreds of thousands of Nazi collaborators from Western Ukraine and Eastern Europe in the belief that they would be of use in the Cold War against the Soviet Union. 

The bottom line is that despite the loss of hundreds of thousands of American soldiers' lives fighting the Nazis, after the war the United States and its corporate class gave only lip service to anti-Nazism and an outward appearance of deploring Nazism. In reality, Washington could care less and followed its raison d'etre in its relations with Nazism and Nazis which stated, "*He might be a bastard, but he is our bastard!" *

- Mike


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

Russia itself did thriving business with Nazi Germany right up until the time it was attacked - And I might add, they were partners in crime invading, annexing and pillaging Poland. Were it not for the Soviets cynical non aggression treaty with Germany, Hitler never would have been able to throw his full weight against France, and if he did he would have been instantly locked in a major war on 2 fronts.


There was no reason why US and dozens of other nations could not or should not have done business with Germany until their countries were at war. You seem to be quite an expert at predicting the past, those living through events didn't have the luxury of hindsight.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

HornSnaggle said:


> Russia itself did thriving business with Nazi Germany right up until the time it was attacked - And I might add, they were partners in crime invading, annexing and pillaging Poland. Were it not for the Soviets cynical non aggression treaty with Germany, Hitler never would have been able to throw his full weight against France, and if he did he would have been instantly locked in a major war on 2 fronts.
> 
> 
> There was no reason why US and dozens of other nations could not or should not have done business with Germany until their countries were at war. You seem to be quite an expert at predicting the past, those living through events didn't have the luxury of hindsight.


In fact, after the Nazis came to power in Germany economic relations with the Soviet Union deteriorated from 1933 to 1939 to practically zero. Hitler looked on the Soviet Union as a nation populated by sub-human Slavs who were ruled by Bolshevik Jews. 

After the Kremlin's attempts to form an anti-Hitler coalition were rebuffed by Great Britain and France, the USSR signed a non-aggression pact with Germany in an effort to stall off the invasion that they knew was going to eventually come. After the signing of the non-aggression pact on August 24, 1939 the Soviet Union exported raw materials to Germany for less than two years until the invasion on June 22, 1941.

I would hardly call the USSR/German economic relations "thriving business" even during the 22 months after the non-aggression pact was signed.

US/German economic relations dwarfed the USSR/German trade. Both the US and Nazi Germany had capitalistic economic systems and, as is still the practice today, profits were more important than anything else! The fact that already by 1935 people were being rounded up and put into concentration camps (communists were the first to be rounded up) was irrelevant to the barons of industry.In fact, through various devious machinations many American multinational corporations kept right on trading with Nazi Germany after Pearl Harbor. ***** 

About two weeks after Germany invaded and conquered Poland, the Red Army went into Polish occupied Western Byelorussia that had been ripped from Byelorussia by the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk in 1918. You can believe what you want, but my mom's side of the family comes from Grodno region and I was told by relatives and acquaintances who lived there at the time that they were all in the streets cheering when the hated Poles were finally driven out. 








[/IMG]
_"60th Anniversary of the Reunification of the Byelorussian Lands"_

The Red Army did *NOT* invade Poland, it liberated Western Byelorussia that was occupied by the Poles after WW I.


- Mike

***** 
https://libcom.org/library/allied-multinationals-supply-nazi-germany-world-war-2
http://www.ranknfile-ue.org/uen_nastybiz.html
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-hi...h-to-be-planted-all-over-europe-again/5398757
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/nov98/nazicars30.htm


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The West made such a stink about the rocket attack on downtown Mariupol which is still not proven to have been initiated by the Novorossiya Army. However, when it comes to the myriad shellings of civilians and other atrocities by the Kiev junta's punitive battalions they remain silent.

Since April the Kiev junta's forces have been shelling civilian targets and the West has remained silent. And, I suspect it will remain silent until it thinks it has an excuse to point a finger at the freedom fighters of Donbas!


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> That's a bold statement. How did you come to that conclusion?


Check out this video. They explain it better than I can. - Mike


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> In fact, after the Nazis came to power in Germany economic relations with the Soviet Union deteriorated from 1933 to 1939 to practically zero. Hitler looked on the Soviet Union as a nation populated by sub-human Slavs who were ruled by Bolshevik Jews.
> 
> After the Kremlin's attempts to form an anti-Hitler coalition were rebuffed by Great Britain and France, the USSR signed a non-aggression pact with Germany in an effort to stall off the invasion that they knew was going to eventually come. After the signing of the non-aggression pact on August 24, 1939 the Soviet Union exported raw materials to Germany for less than two years until the invasion on June 22, 1941.
> 
> I would hardly call the USSR/German economic relations "thriving business" even during the 22 months after the non-aggression pact was signed.


They were rushing trainloads of foodstuffs and other raw material for years up until the very day they were attacked, I have no idea or care how you define "thriving" - The point is, everyone who was not at eachothers throats traded for their own economic advantage, as you or I would.

You do have a point about Britain's inept foreign policy being far from encouraging towards Russia, but that is a poor excuse for making a deal with the devil which eventually was the catalyst for causing 1,000,000's of deaths, much of it in Russia. Stalin didn't know he would eventually be attacked, he was hoping to push Hitlers interest west, which he did for a while ,,, And at the least, forestall any conflict to build up his forces.
In the mean time he brutally attacked Finland, who put up a heroic defense against the marauding commies bent on conquest. 



> US/German economic relations dwarfed the USSR/German trade. Both the US and Nazi Germany had capitalistic economic systems and, as is still the practice today, profits were more important than anything else! The fact that already by 1935 people were being rounded up and put into concentration camps (communists were the first to be rounded up) was irrelevant to the barons of industry.In fact, through various devious machinations many American multinational corporations kept right on trading with Nazi Germany after Pearl Harbor. *****


Considering there was a blockade enforced against Germany by the worlds premier naval power England, any "trade" was miniscule, whatever could be smuggled over the Swiss border.
The penalty for having relations with the enemy was death, I'm really doubting the picture you are trying to paint.




> About two weeks after Germany invaded and conquered Poland, the Red Army went into Polish occupied Western Byelorussia that had been ripped from Byelorussia by the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk in 1918. You can believe what you want, but my mom's side of the family comes from Grodno region and I was told by relatives and acquaintances who lived there at the time that they were all in the streets cheering when the hated Poles were finally driven out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh yes, an act of brotherly, patriotic love !



The Katyn massacre (Polish: zbrodnia katyńska, mord katyński, "Katyń crime"; Russian: Катынский расстрел Katynskij ra'sstrel, "Katyn shooting") was a series of mass executions of Polish nationals carried out by the People's Commissariat for Internal Affairs (NKVD), the Soviet secret police, in April and May 1940. Originally the term "Katyn massacre", also known as the Katyn Forest massacre, referred to the massacre at Katyn Forest, which was discovered first and was the largest execution of this type.

The massacre was prompted by NKVD chief Lavrentiy Beria's proposal to execute all captive members of the Polish Officer Corps, dated 5 March 1940, approved by the Soviet Politburo, including its leader, Joseph Stalin. The number of victims is estimated at about 22,000.[1] The victims were murdered in the Katyn Forest in Russia, the Kalinin and Kharkiv prisons, and elsewhere. Of the total killed, about 8,000 were officers taken prisoner during the 1939 Soviet invasion of Poland, another 6,000 were police officers, and the rest were arrested Polish intelligentsia the Soviets deemed to be "intelligence agents, gendarmes, landowners, saboteurs, factory owners, lawyers, officials and priests".[1]

The government of Nazi Germany announced the discovery of mass graves in the Katyn Forest in 1943. When the London-based Polish government-in-exile asked for an investigation by the International Red Cross, Stalin immediately severed diplomatic relations with it. The Soviet Union claimed the victims had been murdered by the Nazis in 1941, and continued to deny responsibility for the massacres until 1990, when it officially acknowledged and condemned the perpetration of the killings by the NKVD, as well as the subsequent cover-up by the Soviet government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

HornSnaggle said:


> They were rushing trainloads of foodstuffs and other raw material for years up until the very day they were attacked, I have no idea or care how you define "thriving" - The point is, everyone who was not at eachothers throats traded for their own economic advantage, as you or I would.
> ]


You can ignore history if you prefer, but between 1933 and 1939 trade between the USSR and Nazi Germany was virtually nil. As I mentioned, after the non-agression pact was signed in 1939 the Soviet Union began to export raw materials to Germany and received technology in return up until 1941 when Germany invaded. 

"Thriving" would be defined as doing alot of business with the Nazis. For example:

",,,And it is important to consider the size of American investments in Nazi Germany at the time of Pearl Harbor. These amounted to an estimated total of *$475 million*. Standard Oil of New Jersey had *$120 million *invested there; General Motors had *$35 million*; ITT had *$30 million*; and Ford had *$17.5 million*..." 
https://libcom.org/library/allied-multinationals-supply-nazi-germany-world-war-2



"...On 22 June 1941 the Wehrmacht rolled across the Soviet border, *powered by Ford and GM engines *and equipped with the tools produced in Germany by American capital and know-how..."

"...Finally, the much-publicized Lend-Lease aid to the USSR was to a large extent neutralized — and arguably dwarfed — by the unofficial, discreet, but very important assistance provided by American corporate sources to the German enemies of the Soviets. In 1940 and 1941 *American oil trusts *increased the lucrative oil exports to Germany; large amounts delivered to Nazi Germany via neutral states..."

"...After Pearl Harbor the German army, navy, and air force contracted with *ITT* for the manufacture of switchboards, telephones, alarm gongs, buoys, air raid warning devices, radar equipment, and thirty thousand fuses per month for artillery shells …ITT supplied ingredients for the rocket bombs that fell on London...
http://www.globalresearch.ca/profits-ber-alles-american-corporations-and-hitler/4607



"...*IBM* manufactured custom-built computers—essentially punch-card machines—so that the Nazis could keep tabs on train timetables and the number of Jews being shipped around, allowing for an accurate record of all those going to and from death camps such as Auschwitz and Treblinka. In short, IBM provided the Nazis with the equipment they needed to ensure the systematic extermination of the Jews..."

"...*The Ford Motor Company’s* German plants used slave labor and the German wing of the company even went as far as kitting out the German war effort. In one damning example, some American managers based in Germany agreed to go along with military production for the Nazi regime..."

"Leading up to World War II, *Standard Oil* had a relationship with IG Farben and, sensing that the United States might get involved in the conflict at some point, decided to sign an agreement to sustain their relationship beyond such a situation. Thus Standard Oil provided the Nazis with fuel for their U-boats, on some occasions even giving Germans the first pick of oil fields..." 
http://listverse.com/2013/10/24/10-big-business-nazi-profiteers/



I could post tons more data, but I think you get the drift. The economic relationship between U.S. multi-national corporations and Nazi Germany was big, thriving, and continued up to and, in some cases, beyond the U.S. entry into the war in 1943. 

And, we should keep in mind that the dollar amounts mentioned earlier were in dollars of 70-80 years ago when the American dollar had tremendous amount more value than today's dollar.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

HornSnaggle said:


> Oh yes, an act of brotherly, patriotic love !
> The Katyn massacre (Polish: zbrodnia katyńska, mord katyński, l]


Katyn has absolutely nothing to do with the point I made about liberating Western Byelorussia. The Poles were hated occupiers and the Red Army liberated and rejoined western Byelorussia with the rest of the country. 

We could go back to the 1920s and bring up the murder and starvation of Russian POWs by the Poles. We can go even farther back than that and bring up the Vatican using Catholic Poland/Lithuania to invade Orthodox Russia and Ukraine. This all highlights the centuries of Russian/Polish animosity, but is irrelevant when specifically discussing the liberation of western Byelorussia in 1939.

The people of the western portion of Byelorussia were forcibly put under Polish rule in 1918 and were liberated in 1939. The Polish minority of beauracrats, soldiers, and policemen living there didn't like it very much. But, the overwhelming majority made up of Byelorussians were very happy to see them kicked out.

- Mike


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## MikeTO (May 17, 2013)

Don´t know if this wa posted before...








How accurate is that translation?


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

MikeTO said:


> Don´t know if this wa posted before...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The translation is very accurate.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Manowarrior said:


> The translation is very accurate.


These bastards are lucky it was "Givi" interrogating them. If it was me I would have personally put a bullet in the back of their fucking heads. These filthy sons of bitches murdered hundreds of civilians, abused them, and destroyed their property.

The bald bastard on the end is Colonel Oleg Mikhailovich Mikats, aka *THE PUNISHER!* He is a top einsatzgruppen killer and is the leader of the 93rd Ukrainian Mechanized Brigade. He was taken prisoner two weeks ago when the freedom fighters repelled the attack on Donetsk Airport.

What kind of treatment would you afford these sacks of shit who came to your land and bombed and killed your people? 

There is a Geneva Convention you say? Fuck the Geneva Convention and fuck the biased Western media that cries a river when Kiev junta killers get theirs, but could give a rat's ass when Kiev's punishment battalions commit myriad atrocities.

- Mike

СМЕРТЬ ПОРОШЕНКО И КИЕВСКОЙ ХУНТЕ

DEATH TO POROSHENKO & THE KIEV JUNTA​


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*CROSSTALK: "NULAND'S KIEV"*


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> Katyn has absolutely nothing to do with the point I made about liberating Western Byelorussia. The Poles were hated occupiers and the Red Army liberated and rejoined western Byelorussia with the rest of the country.
> 
> We could go back to the 1920s and bring up the murder and starvation of Russian POWs by the Poles. We can go even farther back than that and bring up the Vatican using Catholic Poland/Lithuania to invade Orthodox Russia and Ukraine. This all highlights the centuries of Russian/Polish animosity, but is irrelevant when specifically discussing the liberation of western Byelorussia in 1939.
> 
> ...


And Germany went to war trying to liberate stolen German territory, are you going to justify 1 and condemn the other ?
Everyone knows Poland was carved up by 2 hungry land thief's, demarcation lines were drawn in advance where the armies would stop - And Russia even took advantage of the favor she was granting Hitler [To turn his full force of power westwards] by not only invading Finland but occupying and annexing Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania as well. I'm sure you have excuses for those as well, but its wearing a little thin by now.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

HornSnaggle said:


> Everyone knows Poland was carved up by 2 hungry land thief's, demarcation lines were drawn in advance where the armies would stop...


And, the Red Army stopped at the border of western Byelorussia and Poland. Poland proper was not touched by the Red Army. They just took back what was ripped away from Byelorussia in 1918, and my relatives in Grodno Oblast and Minskaya Oblast were living in a reunified Byelorussia again!

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*NOTES FROM THE FRONT*​_It looks like the Kiev junta is having such a problem keeping their glorious army from retreating and/or refusing to fight that they have instituted "*barrier squads*" on the front. Any Ukrainian soldier trying to retreat is shot down by his fellow Ukrainian soldiers in the "barrier squad."

With the capture of Uglegorsk the Debaltsevo pocket has been closed and about 7,000 Ukrainian troops are trapped as the Army of Novorossiya continues to drive back the fascist invaders. 

- Mike
_

Kiev used barrier squads to prevent troops from retreating – E. Ukraine militia

Published time: January 27, 2015 21:19 

*The Ukrainian military employed barrier troops who fired at their fellow servicemen in order to prevent their retreat* during a night battle in the country's southeast, the Defense Ministry of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) said.

"Ukrainian troops are demoralized, which is proven by an unprecedented incident that occurred last night,” DPR Defense Ministry spokesman Eduard Basurin said, as quoted by Donetsk News Agency. 

An injured Ukrainian soldier who surrendered to the militias said during questioning that “anti-retreat units from territorial defense battalions were used against the Ukrainian troops,” Basurin said...
http://rt.com/news/226831-ukraine-barrier-troops-donetsk/ 







Thousands of Ukrainian troops thought to be trapped in Donbass
Published time: January 30, 2015 18:48 

At least 7,000 Ukrainian troops are believed to be surrounded near the village of Debaltsevo in Donbass, as militia units cut off the only road linking the pocket to Kiev-held territory. The servicemen have been offered the chance to surrender.

The forces of the People’s Republic of Donetsk (DPR) have stormed and captured the town of Uglegorsk, a stronghold of the Ukrainian army in the east of the country used for communication and supply. It is about 10 kilometers from Debaltsevo... 
http://rt.com/news/227899-ukraine-troops-debaltsevo-trap/


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> And, the Red Army stopped at the border of western Byelorussia
> 
> - Mike


The Red Army stopped where Stalin & Hitler agreed they would stop, then went on to invade Finland and occupying and annexing Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. Shortly, invading Germans would be greeted in those areas as conquering liberators from Soviet murder squads.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_I wonder if we will be looking at a new Chief of the General Staff of the Ukrainian Army come Monday morning??? Muzhenko contradicted the Kiev junta's party line that is repeated incessantly in the Western media by stating that they are *NOT* fighting Russian troops.

The Nazis in the Verkhovna Rada will be fit to be tied when they hear this one! 

- Mike_

Ukraine chief of staff ‘thwarts Western allegations’ by admitting no combat with Russian troops

Published time: January 30, 2015 23:17 

*The Ukraine army’s chief of staff has admitted that Kiev troops are not engaged in combat with Russian units,* thereby thwarting all Western allegations of Moscow's “military invasion,” said Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov.

“Yesterday afternoon the *Chief of the General Staff – Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine – Viktor Muzhenko officially acknowledged during a briefing for foreign military attachées that Russian troops are not involved in the fighting in the country's southeast,” *Konashenkov said on Friday. 

Given the fact that Muzhenko directly supervises military operations in the southeast, “*his statement is a legal fact, which thwarts numerous accusations made by NATO and Western states” concerning Russia's alleged “military invasion” in Ukraine,* the spokesman added...
http://rt.com/news/228043-ukraine-conflict-army-russia/


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_The Kiev junta's military fell further into disarray as the infamous Aidar Battalion besieged military headquarters in Kiev. The murderers of this volunteer punitive battalion (i.e., einsatzgruppen) are upset because they don't want to be reorganized. Apparently, they are used to murdering, raping, and robbing together and don't want anything changed.

The Aidar thugs also complained that they were shelled by other units of the Kiev junta while at the front.

It appears that the Kiev junta's military is coming apart at the seams - across the country no one wants to fight and more than half the call ups are dodging the draft; the situation at the front is a disaster with mounting casualties and troops losing ground; and, now, one of the more vicious einsatzgruppen battalions is openly defying the Kiev junta's authority.

The Kiev junta created their own "Frankenstein monster" with these punitive volunteer battalions such as Aidar, and now is having a bit of trouble controling them.

- Mike
_

Ukraine’s Aidar battalion fighters besiege military HQ in Kiev 
Published time: January 31, 2015 04:13 










Fighters of the notorious paramilitary battalion Aidar have rallied in Kiev against their disbandment, attempting to storm the Ukraine Defense Ministry’s HQ and accusing the regular army of deliberately shelling Aidar’s own positions with heavy artillery.

Ukraine’s most infamous volunteer battalion, the Aidar battalion – condemned by Amnesty International for its unmatched brutality in eastern Ukraine – allegedly came under Grad and Smerch rocket fire by the regular military near the town of Schastya in Lugansk region. 

“[Ukrainian] artillery is working against Aidar battalion’s positions,” said Aidar commander and MP representing Ukraine’s Radical Party, Sergey Melnichuk, during a protest outside the Defense Ministry’s building in Kiev. Citing his own fighter, Melnichuk claimed that Kiev’s artillery targeted the battalion’s positions “15-20 times...” 
http://rt.com/news/228083-aidar-battalion-defense-ministry/


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_Well, it looks like my assertion on this thread almost a year ago that the U.S. engineered the coup has been confirmed - by the President of the United States no less!
_
- Mike


OBAMA ADMITS U.S. ROLE IN 2014 UKRAINE COUP​
Europe
20:14 01.02.2015(updated 01:19 02.02.2015) 
US President Obama stated that the United States took an active part in the February 2014 coup in Ukraine, which installed pro-Western authorities

MOSCOW, February 1 (Sputnik) –*The United States took an active part in the February 2014 coup in Ukraine, which installed pro-Western authorities, US President Obama told CNN Sunday.
* 
"And since Mr. Putin made this decision around Crimea and Ukraine — not because of some grand strategy, but essentially because he was caught off-balance by the protests in the Maidan and [Ukraine's then-President Viktor] Yanukovych then fleeing *after we had brokered a deal to transition power in Ukraine," Obama said in an interview...*

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150201/1017625288.html


Obama openly admits 'brokering power transition' in Ukraine​
Published time: February 01, 2015 18:32 

*In an interview with CNN’s Fareed Zakaria, Barack Obama acknowledged that the United States had "brokered a deal to transition power in Ukraine," thus admitting to the highest level of democratic impropriety imaginable*.

Before we consider Obama’s stunning remarks, and how the Ukrainian people sold their country for a song, let’s rewind to November 2013, when then-President Viktor Yanukovich had shocked western capitals (and, more importantly, western markets) by suspending plans for an association agreement with the European Union.

As if on command, thousands of Ukrainians suddenly poured into the streets of Kiev to protest the decision. *Such a rapid reaction should not have come as a surprise. After all, a multitude of US government agencies – most notably, USAID - had been operating in Ukraine since the collapse of the Soviet Union, investing billions on its latest "democratic" pet project*.

This is no conspiracy theory. On December 13, 2013, Assistant Secretary of State Victoria "F*ck the EU" Nuland, following her third trip to Ukraine in five weeks, told the National Press Club: "Since Ukraine's independence in 1991 the United States has…invested over $5 billion to assist Ukraine in needs and other goals."

Although many are tempted to believe otherwise, governments don't normally spend such prodigious amounts of money in a foreign country unless it expects to get something hefty (in this case, Kiev’s loyalty) in return. Governments are by nature opportunists, not philanthropists, which is precisely why Russia gave USAID the boot in 2012.

*We should note here that it was not just US taxpayer dollars that unwittingly provided the funds to support the coup d’ etat in Ukraine*. In another softball interview with CNN’s Zakaria, *billionaire George Soros last May coolly admitted: “I set up a foundation in Ukraine before Ukraine became independent of Russia. And the foundation has been functioning ever since and played an important part in events now..*.”

http://rt.com/op-edge/228379-obama-power-transition-ukraine/


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)




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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

As in most cases, eventually the truth usually comes out. And, when it did this past week the supporters of the Kiev junta and its Western Ukrainian neo-Nazis can only post nonsensical photos for lack of any argument to the contrary.

Early last week *VIKTOR MUZHENKO, CHIEF OF THE ARMED FORCES OF UKRAINE*, stated that there are *NO* Russian troops in Donetsk and Lugansk. This contradicts the propaganda of Poroshenko's Kiev junta that the Western news media loves to quote, i.e. Russian troops are pouring into Ukraine every other day! 

However, the big news is that in an interview with CNN’s Fareed Zakaria, *BARACK OBAMA* acknowledged that the United States had *"BROKERED A DEAL TO TRANSITION POWER IN UKRAINE." "THE UNITED STATES TOOK AN ACTIVE PART IN THE FEBRUARY 2014 COUP IN UKRAINE," *U.S. President Obama told CNN Sunday.

Almost a year ago I was saying that it was Washington and Langley that engineered the coup that overthrew the *ELECTED* Ukrainian government and brought to power the Western Ukrainian neo-Nazi thugs. Last week my allegations were confirmed by none other than the *PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES!*

GLORY TO THE HEROES OF DONBAS

СЛАВА ГЕРОЯМ ДОНБАССА​
"DEDICATED TO THE DEFENDERS OF THE SOUTHEAST"
"When we were at war...


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)




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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

While the Western Ukrainian morons in the Vice News' video were huddling in their underground bunker watching cartoons, one of their top leaders was severely wounded and might even be dead as we speak.

Simyon Simyonchenko is the leader of the "Donbas Battalion" - one of the most infamous and brutal irregular punitive battalions involved in the genocide in Novorossiya. Yesterday, he and his thugs were attempting to reinforce the Svityaz Battalion when they were engaged by the Novorossiya forces who obliterated them. 

Speaking of brutal neo-Nazi punitive battalions, members of the Azov Battalion stationed in Mariupol posed the other day for the photo below.

*MEMBERS OF THE AZOV BATTALION, MARIUPOL*







[/IMG]​


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> While the Western Ukrainian morons in the Vice News' video were huddling in their underground bunker watching cartoons, one of their top leaders was severely wounded and might even be dead as we speak.
> 
> Simyon Simyonchenko is the leader of the "Donbas Battalion" - one of the most infamous and brutal irregular punitive battalions involved in the genocide in Novorossiya. Yesterday, he and his thugs were attempting to reinforce the Svityaz Battalion when they were engaged by the Novorossiya forces who obliterated them.
> 
> ...


Hmm nice, you photoshop it yerself ??


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

HornSnaggle said:


> Hmm nice, you photoshop it yerself ??


You're grasping at straws as the truth about the coup and the people who engineered it and are involved in its crimes leaks out and is becoming a flood! Even President Obama has admitted U.S. involvement in the coup last year. 

I guess they took that photo after their "Nazi Hopak" at a training session.

*MEMBERS OF AZOV BATTALION FLASH NAZI SIGNS WHILE DOING A DANCE DURING TRAINING*


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> You're grasping at straws as the truth about the coup and the people who engineered it and are involved in its crimes leaks out and is becoming a flood! Even President Obama has admitted U.S. involvement in the coup last year.


As I said, you are an expert at predicting the past - US involvement was voiced by many the day it happened, so what ? Wouldn't be the 1st time US had a hand in engineering a coup, now would it ? The people were obviously tired of being ruled by a corrupt Soviet puppet, so we gave them a little nudge.
What do you think would happen to "the rebels" without mass Russian support ?

Bravado and disbelief greet Ukraine rebel call-up

A mass call-up Monday by separatist authorities aimed at boosting their forces in east Ukraine to 100,000 fighters sparked mixed reactions from inhabitants in rebel bastion Donetsk.

But even for these loyalists of the rebels' self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, the figure of 100,000 sought by rebel chief Alexander Zakharchenko seems unfeasibly high.

"Look around," they joked, pointing at the half-deserted streets. "Where are you going to find all of them?"

"There is continual fighting and you can die at any time and now they announce a supposedly voluntary mobilisation," he said. "It is voluntary at gunpoint. If it's for real it's nothing more than suicide."

The insurgents had announced the call-up would start in 10 days because that is the amount of time it takes to get permission from Ukrainian forces to leave the region, he claimed.

"There is no possibility to escape," he said.

"Every day, I feel a little bit more a hostage" of the separatist authorities.

http://news.yahoo.com/bravado-disbelief-greet-ukraine-rebel-call-184944217.html


Not saying there are not any "fascist" elements involved, no doubt there are some on both sides.
The photo you posted really does reak of a cheesy photoshop though, you aren't quite posting at pravda.com here - You will get called out when you repost rank Soviet propaganda.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

HornSnaggle said:


> As I said, you are an expert at predicting the past - *US involvement was voiced by many the day it happened*, so what ? Wouldn't be the 1st time US had a hand in engineering a coup, now would it ? The people were obviously tired of being ruled by a corrupt Soviet puppet, so we gave them a little nudge.
> .


Not on this forum by your likeminded list members. Since you're new here you don't know the denial and demands for proof that were echoed by the anti-Russian crowd on this thread a year ago when I maintained it was a U.S. engineered coup. Well, here is the admission from the horses mouth, so to speak. And, this is certainly the first admission by the U.S. government that they were involved in the coup and regime change.

Now that the truth is out in the open about U.S. involvement, various questions arise again such as who did the sniping that killed both demonstrators and police in Kiev during the Maidan riots. I always thought it was a "third party," i.e. Langley, but the anti-Russian crowd here staunchly maintained it was Berkut. The truth about that will come out in the wash eventually, too.

Well, since you are going to deny that Azov, Aidar, Donetsk, and other Kiev junta punishment battalions are neo-Nazis and nothing more than modern day einsatsgruppen murderers, then there is no sense arguing with you. Believe what you want.

I will make one prediction though - the Kiev junta run by Poroshenko, Yatsiniuk, and their neo-Nazi Western Ukrainian scumbags is going to collapse in the near future. They will be overthrown by their own neo-Nazis who, in turn, will be overthrown by others.

Whether the Army of Novorossiya drives on to Kiev or stops at the eastern regions' border with Central Ukraine is a moot point. But, the Ukrainian military is going to be driven back.

Those are my predictions. Talk to me in a year!

- Mike

P.S. You claim the pic was "photo shopped." I'm not an expert, so I can't say for sure. But, was the video "photo shopped???" That's the same bunch of Azov guys dancing and flashing Nazi salutes. Why is it such a leap to posing with a portrait of Hitler??? Also, Azov Battalion displays swastikas, SS signs, and other Nazi symbols. Why would they be adverse to posing with a portrait of Hitler???


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> Not on this forum by your likeminded list members. Since you're new here you don't know the denial and demands for proof that were echoed by the anti-Russian crowd on this thread a year ago when I maintained it was a U.S. engineered coup. Well, here is the admission from the horses mouth, so to speak. And, this is certainly the first admission by the U.S. government that they were involved in the coup and regime change.
> 
> Now that the truth is out in the open about U.S. involvement, various questions arise again such as who did the sniping that killed both demonstrators and police in Kiev during the Maidan riots. I always thought it was a "third party," i.e. Langley, but the anti-Russian crowd here staunchly maintained it was Berkut. The truth about that will come out in the wash eventually, too.
> 
> ...



If they could do it all by themselves I'd be impressed, you and I both know they cannot do it without mass Russian involvement, no where close. Hence at best we'll have a Russian surrogate totally dependent on Moscow for bread, butter & bullets - Some "independence" !



> P.S. You claim the pic was "photo shopped." I'm not an expert, so I can't say for sure. But, was the video "photo shopped???" That's the same bunch of Azov guys dancing and flashing Nazi salutes. Why is it such a leap to posing with a portrait of Hitler??? Also, Azov Battalion displays swastikas, SS signs, and other Nazi symbols. Why would they be adverse to posing with a portrait of Hitler???


Why would Russians fake a photo hmmm good question, you'd probably know the answer better than I would.
Why did they fake German atrocity pics in WW2 when there were plenty of legit atrocities to chose from ? Shock value and an innate need to lie/propagandize would be my guess.


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

So lets get this straight - Are they a neo Nazi junta, jews or a combination of both ?
They have been accused of both, seems to me they are mutually incompatible. What self respecting, race loving Nazi is going to serve under the orders of jews ?
This Zakharchenko is apparently using incoherent hysterics to drum up recruitment, what other explanation could there be ?
You've got conflicting talking points here Batko, see if you can set this straight.

Not trying to be cute here, you are obviously an intelligent man with a strong passion/connection to the region. Why are you calling them Nazis, and this guy, whom I think we can both agree is in a better position to judge than anyone here, is calling them jews ? Am I really to believe that the shot callers are jews, and the grunts are Nazis ?


Ukraine run by 'miserable' Jews: rebel chief

Ukraine's pro-Russian rebel chief on Monday branded the country's leaders "miserable" Jews in an apparent anti-Semitic jibe.

Alexander Zakharchenko, leader of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, claimed that Kiev's pro-Western leaders were "miserable representatives of the great Jewish people".

"I can't remember a time when Cossacks were led by people who have never held a sword in their hands," Zakharchenko told a press conference in the eastern rebel stronghold of Donetsk, in a reference to Ukraine's nationalist forebears, the Cossacks.

Zakharchenko said that the country's historical nationalists "would turn in their graves if they could see who is running Ukraine."

Anti-Semitic sentiment remains widespread in Ukraine, where leaders are commonly labelled as Jewish by those seeking to discredit them.

The comments by Zakharchenko, who was flanked by the leader of the neighbouring rebel-held region of Lugansk, Igor Plotnitsky, were carried live by Russian news channel Rossiya-24. 

http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-run-miserable-jews-rebel-chief-202600090.html


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

I don't know of any Jews in the heirarchy of the Kiev junta. The two main neo-Nazi parties have been entrusted with key positions which grant them de facto control over the Armed Forces, Police, Justice and National Security.









Secretary of National Defense/Security Committee: 
*ANDREI PARUBIY*, co-founder of the neo-Nazi National Socialist Party of Ukraine which was subsequently renamed and known today as *SVOBODA*.









Deputy-Secretary of National Defense/Security Committe:
*DMITRY YAROSH*, leader of neo-Nazi *RIGHT SECTOR* delegation in the Verkhovna Rada and instrumental in the banning of the Communist Party and Party of Regions.









Vice-Prime Minister (one of three VPs):
*OLYKSANDR SYCH*: member of neo-Nazi *SVOBODA*.









Prosecutor General (equivilant of U.S. Attorney General):
*OLEG MAHNITSKY*: member of neo-Nazi *SVOBODA*.








[/IMG]
Member of the Verkhovna Rada:
*OLEH TYAHNYBOK*, Leader of the neo-Nazi *SVOBODA PARTY.* 

Chairman of the State Anti-Corruption Committee:
*TATYANA CHERNOVOL*, former member of the neo-Nazi *Ukrainian National Assembly – Ukrainian National Self Defense (UNA-UNSO).* 

Minister of Youth and Sports:
*DMITRY BULATOV*, former member of neo-Nazi *UNA-UNSO*.

Chairman of Lustration Committee (in charge of witch hunts of anyone who opposes the agenda of the Kiev junta):
*YEGOR SOBOLEV*, known neo-Nazi sympathizer.

In the military the "National Guard" is mostly being used to fight in the east and is composed mostly of neo-Nazi and ultra-Nationalist elements. Punitive battalions such as Azov, Aidar, and Donetsk being used to wage war in the east wear the symbols of WW II German Nazis. As a rule, the regular Ukrainian Army does not display this symbolism.

WW II Nazi collaborators such Stepan Bandera have been elevated to national heroes.

I don't know what Zakharchenko was talking about. However, "Yahoo News" may not be the best source for accurate information and quotes.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

On my phone right now, can't post the link. The separatist leader said at a press conference said that the government in Kiev is 'filthy Jews'. Is it as I understand it? Nazis and Jews are working together against Russia? Oh, and don't forget Americans. And European Union. And every country west of Russia. It is a worldwide conspiracy against Russia where Russians are the good guys and everybody else is the bad guys. Right?


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

> Kiev's pro-Western leaders were "miserable representatives of the great Jewish people".


It appears that he didn't call them jews, but rather servants of jewish interest ,,, So the contradiction may not be as great as I had thought.
Nonetheless, it is tough to reconcile right wing fascists working hand in hand with jews unless there was a strong enough mutual interest to form a temporary allegiance for a common goal. 
In that case, what I said above "Am I really to believe that the shot callers are jews, and the grunts are Nazis ?" needs to be addressed, as that seems to be exactly what he was implying 

I have heard it said that some of these improvised paramilitary battalions have voiced sentiments they'd like to turn on Kiev once business in the east is wrapped up ,,, I don't know, this is way over my head and I have no idea who, if anyone, is telling the truth.

I think it can be generally said that all parties involved in this bloody struggle will lie as much as they like, so long as it advances their cause .... Tends to happen in all conflicts. But among the lies there are always nuggets of truth, it would take detailed study to sift them out.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

This would appear to be another tempest in a teapot that is being created to obfuscate the realities of the composition and goals of the Kiev junta.

I wish the Western news media would jump all over Obama's admission that the United States was involved in the coup the way they have jumped over Zakharchenko's statements.

The quotes that are being reported by all the Western news media are the same:
"Alexander Zakharchenko, leader of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, claimed that Kiev's pro-Western leaders were "*miserable representatives of the great Jewish people."
*
"*I can't remember a time when Cossacks were led by people who have never held a sword in their hands,* Zakharchenko told a press conference in the eastern rebel stronghold of Donetsk."

"Zakharchenko said that *the country's historic nationalists would turn in their graves if they could see who is running Ukraine*."

Why he would mention the Jews at all is beyond me. However, he did not say that Jews are "*miserable*" or "*filthy*." He said the "*great Jewish people*" were being led by "*miserable representatives*" of their ethnic group.

So, in fact, Zakharchenko actually complimented the Jews as a whole.

However, again, there are no Jews in the heirarchy of the Kiev junta that I know of (I heard that Poroshenko's wife is a Jew, but I can't confirm that). The only question that you might want to investigate is why Zakharchenko mentioned them at all. Why the pro-Kiev junta press is exploiting this to obfuscate the situation and attack Zakharchenko is obvious.

There are probably around 250,000 Jews in Ukraine today out of a total population 44,000,000. That's about one-half of one percent of the population. Many of them are elderly due to emigration over the years of the younger people. I don't see them running anything.

The only gripe I could see Zakharchenko having with them is the fact that some of their leaders have been cowed into remaining silent about the Kiev junta or scared into making positive statements about it. But, many others have been cowed into silence by the Kiev junta's threats and intimidation - not just Jews.

- Mike


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

Was obviously meant as a slander and not a compliment to either the "Kiev junta" or jews, would still like to know what truth if any lies behind the accusation.


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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

why dont we discuss the tanking russian economy?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_With few fighter planes remaining and even fewer qualified pilots, I was surprised that the Kiev junta sent two SU-25 jet fighters into the battle at Debaltsevo. It looks like an act of desperation to free the 8,000 Ukrainian invaders who are surrounded and trapped in a pocket by the Army of Novorossiya. 

Both planes were reported to have been shot down. A third Kiev junta warplane was believed to have been shot down in neighboring Lugansk, but there is still no confirmation on this one. 

If the hawks on Capitol Hill have their way it looks like the American taxpayers will be footing the bill for replacement planes for Poroshenko's airforce. That is if it is going to be Poroshenko's airforce. * Last night hundreds of people in Kiev stormed his offices and attempted to break in. They were beaten back by police and neo-Nazi National Guard thugs.
*
- Mike
_
Donetsk Claims Shooting Down Two Ukrainian Su-25 Military Jets










_Kiev junta SU-25 ground support jet fighter_

20:50 03.02.2015(updated 22:04 03.02.2015) 

*Two Su-25 military jets were downed near the contested town of Debaltseve. Both pilots ejected, with one of them landing on the DPR territory.*

DONETSK, (Sputnik) — The deputy head of armed militia from the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic (DPR) in eastern Ukraine said Tuesday that his troops had shot down two Ukrainian Su-25 military jets near the contested town of Debaltseve.

According to Eduard Basurin, one of the Su-25s was downed near the village of Komissarivka while the second — near the village of Chernukhine.

"Both pilots ejected, and one of them landed on the territory controlled by DPR militia," Basurin said...
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150203/1017728432.html


Hundreds trying to break into Ukraine president’s office in Kiev

Published time: February 03, 2015 15:57 

Several hundred protesters have reportedly tried to break into the Ukrainian president’s administrational office in the country’s capital Kiev, but were repelled by security forces guarding the building. The stand-off grew into clashes in the street.

The demonstrators, who demand access to the administration’s conference room in order to make a TV statement, are still clashing with the National Guard, TASS reports...
Read more: http://rt.com/news/228999-kiev-protesters-storm-president/


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

I'd rather be a Ukrainian nationalist with pride in his homeland than a Communist sympathizer nostalgic for the days of the USSR. 

Batko's quick to call every Ukrainian a Neo-Nazi puppet but never addresses pics like theseunk




























Because communism worked out so well last time it was implemented 










:cena


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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

doesnt seem to like talking about the russian economy and how its tanking i guess


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_The desperation of the Kiev junta must be rising dramatically. First two of their SU-25 ground support jet fighters were shot down attempting to assist the 8,000 fascist troops trapped in the Debaltsevo "cauldron." Then the freedom fighters of Novorossiya launched an air attack on a convoy of Kiev junta troops attempting to break through to aid their trapped comrades.

Using a captured Kiev junta SU-25 they bombed the convoy before it could break through to the trapped soldiers.

- Mike_

_DEATH TO THE KIEV JUNTA! DEATH TO POROSHENKO_



Luhansk Carries Out First Air Attack Against Kiev-Led Forces

Military & Intelligence
04:48 04.02.2015(updated 12:03 04.02.2015)










*Forces of the self-proclaimed Luhansk People’s Republic in southeastern Ukraine reported that they carried out their first airstrike against a convoy of the Ukrainian army, which was heading with reinforcements to the troops surrounded in Debaltseve*.

DONETSK (Sputnik) — Forces of the self-proclaimed Luhansk People’s Republic in southeastern Ukraine have carried out its first airstrike against Kiev-led forces, a spokesperson for the militia headquarters said Wednesday.

“Our Su-25 surprisingly appeared in the sky above the Artemivsk-Debaltseve highway and attacked a convoy of the Ukrainian army, which was heading with reinforcements to the troops surrounded in Debaltseve,” the spokesperson told RIA Novosti, adding that no information about possible casualties is yet available...
Read more: 
http://sputniknews.com/military/20150204/1017743928.html



THE ROOKS (ГРАЧИ) HAVE ARRIVED!

The news from Novorossiya continues to surprise and delight us. Up to now, the Orthodox warriors in the Donbass chafed under attacks from Nazi harassers from the sky… now, they have their own combat aircraft! 

The news that *LNR techs repaired junta Su-25s and put them into service *flashed around the Russian internet at lightning speed. They’ve carried out airstrikes against fascist columns attempting to relieve the bandits trapped in the Debaltsevo pocket. Although the exact results of these strikes are still unknown, one thing is obvious… *the bandits no longer have a monopoly on the skies over Novorossiya.* Now, the Nazi bandits begin to understand (for the first time) that punishment from heaven is unavoidable. Moreover, in fact, it’s only logical. The Russian Spring is on its way! The Rooks Have Arrived!

4 February 2015

Politikus.ru

Read more
http://politikus.ru/articles/42248-grachi-prileteli.html


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

‘Ukraine’s economy in backwards drive, feeds tensions and discontent’

_Neil Clark is a journalist, writer and broadcaster. His award winning blog can be found at www.neilclark66.blogspot.com. Follow him on Twitter_

*Journalist Neil Clark told RT that Tuesday's protests outside Poroshenko’s offices in Kiev are just a part of a bigger picture of discontent grasping the Ukraine. With a worsening economy, former Maidan allies are now angered and splitting up.
*
******

RT: 

Is this a small pocket of discontent or are we seeing something wider here?

Neil Clark: 

I think it's a part of something wider because it isn't the first time that this happened. We had similar demonstrations last week in Kiev; they booed Poroshenko when he went to the Maidan. *I think what that reflects is deep underground divisions amongst the pro-putsch pro-Maidan factions*. What brought them together 12 months ago was a determination to topple then-President V F Yanukovich's government. There were disparate groups of people, ranging from neo-Nazis, far-right ultranationalists, to, if you'd like, pro-Western globalists. 

Now, the country is under great pressure; economically, things aren't going well at all… *the Ukraine is a basket-case economy; it's near bankrupt*. There are swinging cuts in public provision, almost destroying the welfare state there. Therefore, people are very unhappy. *As I said, this represents a wider discontent among the pro-putsch forces that are fighting amongst themselves now*.

RT: 

There were demonstrations outside the very same buildings a year ago. Back then, it was anger at the old authorities. However, they're gone now. Will this cycle ever end?

Clark: 

Not for a long time I fear, because this violent peak started in November 2013. It's the same sort of violence that they used to topple the previous government... *the West shared that violence, let’s not forget that. It violently toppled a democratic government in the Ukraine.* What the Western leaders, the European leaders, should've done was to ask people to wait until the elections this year if they wanted to get rid of Yanukovich. 
*However, they encouraged the violence.* We had a leading US State Department official going to the Ukraine, supporting the protestors. 

This is what happens… now, the situation in the Ukraine shows us that Poroshenko's a very, very weak president. We have this very weak coalition of interest holding the pro-putsch side together. *There's real anger now, real division between, I'd say, the ultranationalist wings, the less-nationalistic wings, and the more globalist wings.* People supported the putsch because they wanted to get the Ukraine in the EU and NATO. Now, they're clashing with more ultranationalist wings who want something different. 

On the back of these, there's economic collapse. We're having some awful austerity measures introduced in the Ukraine, even worse than the measures introduced in Greece that caused so much social discontent. It was a poor country anyway. However,* the fact is that for most Ukrainians, things are a lot off worse now than they were under Yanukovich twelve months ago.* The economy's going backwards. Poverty is rising. That’s the sort of backdrop to what happened today. Unless something radical happens in the Ukraine, unless there's a change of course within the government, a peace deal with [Novorossiya], and a change of economic policies, I think things are only going to get worse. Many people in the Ukraine are very, very angry about what‘s going on, so, the violence which started in November is carrying on today, as we see.

4 February 2015

RT

http://rt.com/op-edge/229295-ukraine-economy-maidan-clashes-poroshenko/


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

*Russian woman faces 20 years in prison on treason charges*

Svetlana Davydova faces up to 20 years in prison on accusations that she called the Ukrainian embassy in Moscow in April to warn that Russian special forces were being deployed to eastern Ukraine.

She was detained at her home in the Smokensk region on 21 January and placed in pre-trial detention for two months in Moscow’s high-security Lefortovo prison.

On Tuesday evening, investigators unexpectedly said they would release Davydova on condition that she remained in her home city of Vyazma, her lawyers told the media.

The Kremlin has denied sending troops to aid pro-Russian rebels in Ukraine despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

As of Tuesday afternoon, more than 29,000 people had signed a petition posted on Saturday to the website of the independent newspaper Novaya Gazeta, and more than 28,000 had signed the same letter on Change.org. A copy of the letter was submitted to the presidential administration .

The petition argues that Davydova should be placed under house arrest because she does not pose a safety or flight risk and does not have a passport to travel abroad. It also points out that *she is the mother of seven children, including a two-month-old, whom she is still breast-feeding*.

“Not long ago you performed a humanitarian act for a longtime opponent,” the letter reads, referring to Putin’s decision to pardon oligarch Mikhail Khodorkovsky after 10 years in prison on the grounds that his mother’s health was worsening. “Today seven young children are waiting at home for a woman who is in Lefortovo prison, in a difficult situation.”

Among the letter’s many prominent signees were the widow of the dissident novelist Alexander Solzhenitsyn, Nataliya, the well-known journalist Vladimir Pozner, the two-time Olympic gold-medalist figure skater Katerina Gordeyeva, and Andrei Zvyagintsev, director of the controversial Academy Award-nominated film Leviathan.

Davydova’s husband, Anatoly Gorlov, told Kommersant newspaper that his wife noticed in April that a base of the military’s foreign intelligence branch near their home in the town of Vyazma seemed unusually empty. Later, in a minibus, she overheard a man from the base talking over the phone about small groups of servicemen in plain clothes going on “business trips”, a euphemism soldiers’ rights advocates say the Russian military often uses when sending troops to eastern Ukraine. Davydova called the Ukrainian embassy to say “she had this information and wanted to avoid possible casualties”, Gorlov said.

More: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/03/petition-putin-free-russian-svetlana-davydova-treason

She is a mother of seven children. And they want to put her in jail for 20 years fpalm


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Of course Batko ignores the evidence of all the puppets thirsty for the return of the USSR what a surprise :trips9


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_The Ukrainian junta forces indiscriminately shell civilians targets in Donetsk on a regular basis in an attempt to cow the civilian population. They don't care whom they kill when they bomb hospitals, kindergartens, apartment complexes, etc. 

The Kiev junta and its Western Ukrainian punitive battalions are pure evil. I don't think it's even a matter of not carrying whom they kill - which is bad enough. It's a planned genocide that's being committed in Donbas. Yet, the Western media only reports a shelling if it thinks it can pin it on the freedom fighters.

In the meantime, the Hryvnia is in free fall as the Ukrainian economy that was once supported by Russia up to a year ago is collapsing before our eyes. The oligarchs like Poroshenko and Kolomoisky are plundering the foreign reserve before the whole economy falls into the shitter.

Kerry is scheduled to discuss more U.S. financial aid for Ukraine. I guess the U.S. taxpayers will be footing even more of the bill to prop up the fascists Kiev junta. 

- Mike_ 


Red Cross Committee Appalled by Shelling of Hospital in Eastern Ukraine

23:47 04.02.2015(updated 02:05 05.02.2015) 










_*The International Committee of the Red Cross is startled by the damage caused to medical facilities in Ukraine*_.

UNITED NATIONS (Sputnik) – The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) is appalled by the damage caused to medical facilities in Ukraine, following the shelling of a hospital in the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk, the ICRC press release said Wednesday...

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150204/1017794437.html


Ukrainian hryvnia in free fall after Central Bank scraps currency support

Published time: February 05, 2015 11:52 










The Grivna lost 34 percent against the USD after the head of the central bank signalled it could no longer support the currency with regular interventions and would allow greater fluctuations. 

On Thursday, National Bank of the Ukraine (NBU) Governor V А Gontareva told reporters in Kiev, “Get used to market volatility”...

RT
Read more:
http://rt.com/business/229607-ukraine-hryvnia-free-fall/


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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

batko talks about the ukraine economy but not the russian one. 

can someone rename this thread to batkos sanctuary.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

I lost internet for a week 

this thread still weird?

good? 

carry on


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

GOD said:


> batko talks about the ukraine economy but not the russian one.
> 
> can someone rename this thread to batkos sanctuary.


The Eastern Europe 'NEO-NAZI KIEV JUNTA DEATH TO POROSHENKO ALL HAIL GLORIOUS USSR' Discussion Thread


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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

THE USSR DOES NO WRONG AND PUTIN IS JESUS CHRIST THREAD


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_If the legislation reported below is put into effect most of the regular Ukrainian Army would have to be shot. The only ones with enthusiasm for the war and murder are the punitive battalions like Azov. Very few, if any, of the drafted soldiers want to carry out the Kiev junta's genocide in the east. *They already are using "barrier squads" that shoot down any troops that retreat. This law just legalizes those death squads*.

In the meantime, the government controlled media is undercounting the Kiev junta's casualties in Donbas by alot in order not to cause a panic among the general population.

*In the first month of 2015 the DPR estimates that 1,738 Kiev junta troops have been killed and 52 taken captive*. The figures would seem to be in line with the very intensive fighting that began last month. *The Kiev junta claims only 1,422 of its troops have been killed since the fighting began in April*. Judging by what's been going on, the junta's figures seem low, to say the least!

- Mike _ 

Ukrainian parliament passes law allowing army deserters to be shot

Published time: February 05, 2015 19:44 










Ukraine’s parliament has passed a law which authorizes commanding officers to use physical force against army defectors. It comes as the latest military draft has seen a lack of enthusiasm on the part of potential soldiers.

Ukraine’s parliament voted on Thursday with 260 MPs in favor - only 226 votes were needed to pass the law. The new article 22(1) added to the charter regulating service in the armed forces of Ukraine states that commanders “have the right to personally use physical force, special means, and weapons when in combat” against soldiers who commit “criminal acts.” 

Under criminal acts the law lists “disobedience, resistance or threat to use force against the commander, voluntary abandonment of military positions and certain locations of military units in areas of combat missions.” 

An explanatory note to the document says that currently there are mass violations of military discipline, in particular, desertion from units and drinking alcohol, as well failure to execute commanders’ orders. 

In late January, a new Ukrainian military draft for 2015 came into effect. This one is the fourth wave of mobilization since Kiev launched a military operation against militias in eastern Ukraine in April 2014. 

READ MORE: Potential conscripts evade draft, flee country amid escalation in E. Ukraine 

It was expected to see 100,000 people joining the army in three stages throughout the year. However, the country’s Defense Ministry said on January 31 that nearly 7,500 Ukrainians are already facing criminal charges for evading military service...

Read more: http://rt.com/news/229739-ukraine-army-shoot-defectors/ 


Ukrainian Soldier Claims Kiev Under Reports Its Losses in Donbas

Europe
21:42 05.02.2015









_Dead Kiev junta troop near their destroyed tank_

_*In some cases, the number of losses in the Ukrainian forces was underreported by 10-20 times, Andrian Volgin, a "Donbas" battalion fighter, said.
*_

Ukraine’s National Security and Defense Council under reports the number of troops killed during the military conflict in the east of the country, Andrian Volgin, a "Donbas" battalion fighter, told Franko Times website...

"...Sometimes 30-40 troops were killed a day. However, Andrei Lysenko [Council spokesperson] says that only two or three soldiers were killed," Volgin said.

He also admitted that the real numbers would spark panic in society....

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150205/1017842209.html


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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

UKRANIANS ARE ALL EVIL BUT WHEN THE RUSSIANS DO IT, ITS A GOOD THING!


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

Awkward sentiments, blind patriotism run amok or a trend back towards despotism ?

I'm willing to bet in their school books they completely ignore the fact that Stalin was one of the most prolific mass murderers in history - Even ahead of Hitler in the body count by most estimates.

```````````````````````````````````



Russia might rename a major city 'Stalingrad'

A Russian city might go back to its old name: Stalingrad.

Volgograd, famous as the site of a major WWII battle, might once again be renamed Stalingrad after a referendum, the chairman of the Federation Council Valentina Matviyenkom, said, according to RT.

"This battle is known all over the world as a turning point [in the Second World War]," she said.

And there's definitely some strong support for this decision: Russia's Deputy prime minister Dmitry Rogozin agrees with the idea of a referendum, and last year Vladimir Putin said that renaming the city isn't out of the question.

"In this case, residents should hold a referendum where they will decide on [the name change]," Putin said according to TASS. "It wasn't me who changed the name... we'll mull over how it can be done."

Interestingly, there's actually already an unusual rule from 2013 in which Volgograd is already officially sometimes referred to as Stalingrad.

"The city's renaming [is] on a temporary but permanent basis. That is, all city measures or mayoral proclamations will officially bear the name Stalingrad on May 9 and on four other days. May 9 is celebrated as Victory Day, in commemoration of the USSR's victory over Nazi Germany," according to the New American.

Over the last few years, Stalin's popularity has gone up in Russia. In the mid-2000's, high school textbooks "praised his work in industrializing Russia" and in 2008 a poll showed the he was the leading historical figure in Russia, according to Newsweek.

And, on top of that, a recent poll showed that a majority of Russians think that the dictator played a "positive role" in Russia's history.

Still, not everyone is so pro-Stalin. The leader of Russia's Liberal-Democratic party Vladimir Zhirinovsky has been strongly opposed to renaming Volgograd, noting that "millions of people died in Russia during Stalin's political repressions before and after WWII," according to RT.

But despite some opposition, we could see the city once again renamed in honor of a dictator.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-might-rename-volgograd-stalingrad-2015-2#ixzz3QwEAKn9p


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_Despite promises to the contrary, NATO has tripled in size over the last two decades right up to Russia's border. Now tens of thousands of NATO troops are on Russia's borders and the U.S. is building a missile shield there. 

The U.S. engineering of the Maidan coup that overthrew the elected government in Ukraine appears to be a provocation that certain interest groups hope will ignite a war with Russia. Napoleon and Hitler had the same idea. How did that work out for them???

- Mike_ 

Russia to Give ‘Adequate’ Response to NATO’s Expansion









_Russian MIG-35 jet fighter_

_*According to the Russian envoy to NATO, the "serious changes in the military-political situation" along the Russian border will "naturally" lead to changes in Russia's military planning, aimed at ensuring the country's security*_.

BRUSSELS (Sputnik) – NATO's recent decision to set up additional command centers in six different countries will inevitably lead to "adequate" changes in Russia's military planning, the country's envoy to the alliance, Alexander Grushko, has told Russian journalists.

"*The opening up of additional military potential along our borders is nothing more than an attempt to exert pressure on Russia*," Grushko said, adding that Russia's response will be "adequate" in any case.

According to the envoy, the "serious changes in the military-political situation" along the Russian border will "naturally" lead to changes in Russia's military planning, aimed at ensuring the country's security.

On Thursday, the defense ministers of NATO member-states agreed on the creation of six new command and control posts in Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and Romania during a meeting in Brussels. The ministers also announced that NATO's Response Force would be doubled to include up to 30,000 people.

*The decision "creates a great risk for Russia", primarily in the Baltics, which could become a region of "military confrontation*", Grushko stressed.

The envoy added that the creation of a joint training center in Georgia, announced by NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg on Thursday, will also contribute to geopolitical tensions and the aggravation of regional security.

"*The training center in Georgia is a step that cannot be considered anything but provocation*. There is no necessity for NATO to create any [training] centers," Grushko said, stressing that countries in the Black Sea region are capable of ensuring their own security.

Stoltenberg said at a press conference Thursday, following the Brussels meeting of NATO defense ministers, that the training center, to be set up in the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, will train both Georgian and NATO troops.

NATO's growing presence in Eastern Europe has been the subject of geopolitical tensions, with Russia having expressed growing concern over the buildup of NATO forces along its western border...

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150206/1017858328.html


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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

how about dat russian economy?


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

I always loved the "NAPOLEON AND HITLER GOT BEATED BY DA RUSSIANS"

they got bogged down in the June mud and lost their biggest advantages

need less horses


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

CROSSTALK: SAVING UKRAINE


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_It would appear that not everyone in the EU agrees with Washington's policy toward Ukraine. Meanwhile, Vice-President Joe Biden displays typical American contempt for anyone who does not kow-tow to the U.S. agenda saying that European disagreement with sanctions against Russia is "annoying."

- Mike
_

French President Hollande calls for broader autonomy for E.Ukraine

Published time: February 07, 2015 13:57 

*French President Francois Hollande called for “quite strong” autonomy for Ukraine’s eastern regions* while speaking on France 2 TV. He also revealed part of the joint plan discussed in Moscow on the conflict’s solution.

On Saturday, Hollande said that the eastern Ukrainian regions of Donetsk and Lugansk need “rather strong” autonomy from Kiev. “These people have gone to war," Hollande explained. "It will be difficult to make them share a common life [with Kiev]…" 
Read more: http://rt.com/news/230251-ukraine-plan-autonomy-hollande/



Sarkozy: Crimea cannot be blamed for joining Russia

Published time: February 08, 2015 01:45 

Crimea cannot be blamed for seceding from Ukraine – a country in turmoil – and choosing to join Russia, said former president of France, Nicolas Sarkozy. He also added that *Ukraine “is not destined to join the EU…”

*…“*Crimea has chosen Russia, and we cannot blame it [for doing so],” *he said pointing out that “*we must find the means to create a peacekeeping force to protect Russian speakers in Ukraine.”*
Read more: http://rt.com/news/230283-sarkozy-crimea-russia-blamed/



Biden says Europeans questioning Russia sanctions 'inappropriate, annoying' – Spiegel

Published time: February 07, 2015 03:33 

US Vice President Joe Biden has called on European countries to show unity when it comes to sanctions against Russia, labeling the dissenting voices “inappropriate and annoying”, reported ‘Der Spiegel’, quoting the participants of the Brussels meeting…

…*He deemed complaints made by some European states about costly sanctions against Russia “inappropriate and annoying*…”

…Following the introduction of the sanctions, *several champions of European industries said that sanctions were not the way out of the crisis*.

“The impact of the sanctions is very moderate. *Russia’s economic downturn was caused by oil prices. Sanctions worked more against western European countries *because of the trade balance,” said Dr. Rainer Seele, Chairman of Germany’s largest oil and gas company, Wintershall.
Read more: http://rt.com/news/230143-biden-sanctions-europe-russia/


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_There is more hot air pouring out of pig Poroshenko than contained in a hot air balloon! The fucking asshole stands up in front of the world waving half a dozen "Russian Passports" and a "Russian Military ID," babbling that this is proof that there are Russian troops invading Ukraine! Then he is unable to produce copies of them for examination. *He should use eBay's buyer protection plan and get his money back on them. The Ukrainian economy could use it!
*
*The sad thing is that this is not even an original act*. I remember another asshole, Colin Powell, standing in front of the United Nations Security Council in 2002 waving around tiny vials of "anthrax" as proof of Iraq's possession of Weapons of Mass Destruction. 

- Mike_

KIEV UNABLE TO PROVIDE COPIES OF ALLEGED RUSSIAN SOLDIERS' PASSPORTS










18:06 08.02.2015(updated 18:24 08.02.2015) 

*Ukraine failed to provide Moscow with copies of passports which were shown off by Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko during his address at the Munich Security Conference.*

MOSCOW, (Sputnik) — Kiev has failed to provide Moscow with copies of documents, allegedly belonging to Russian servicemen fighting in Ukraine, a Russian foreign ministry official told RIA Novosti on Sunday.

Addressing the Munich Security Conference on Saturday, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko showed off covers of Russian passports and military IDs, claiming they prove "Russian presence” in the conflict-torn East Ukraine.

Moscow then asked Kiev to provide copies of the documents on Saturday evening, as “document covers like the ones shown yesterday can easily be bought on the street market," Viktor Sorokin, head of the Second CIS Department at Russia’s foreign ministry, said.

“Currently, there is no real evidence, the Ukrainian side failed to provide copies of these documents,” Sorokin said.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150208/1017972745.html


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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

RUSSIA RULEZ EU DROOLZ!


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> _There is more hot air pouring out of pig Poroshenko than contained in a hot air balloon! The fucking asshole stands up in front of the world waving half a dozen "Russian Passports" and a "Russian Military ID," babbling that this is proof that there are Russian troops invading Ukraine! Then he is unable to produce copies of them for examination. *He should use eBay's buyer protection plan and get his money back on them. The Ukrainian economy could use it!
> *
> *The sad thing is that this is not even an originial act*. I remember another asshole, Colin Powell, standing in front of the United Nations Security Council in 2002 waving around tiny vials of "anthrax" as proof of Iraq's possession of Weapons of Mass Destruction.
> 
> - Mike_


Ah yes, maybe next time they should parade the Russian invaders around the streets of Kiev getting smacked on the head with brooms by fat old ladies, the method you prefer.
I don't think Kiev is obliged to satisfy Russian demands for proof, if they have more proof and want to supply it to the world at large, then they should..


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Poroshenko's Move to Prove Russian Presence in Ukraine Met With Mockery

_*Hilarity ensued once social media users jumped to comment on Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko's presentation of Russian passports at the Munich Security Conference*.
_
Social media users from Russia and elsewhere were quick to question and disparage Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko's showing off of Russian passports, which he says are "the best evidence" of a Russian military presence in Ukraine.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150208/1017975534.html


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

*Huge Explosion at Chemical Plant in Ukraine*


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_The Kiev junta's "comedy club" routine continues as they blame a "cigarette butt" for the explosion at the Donetsk chemical plant.

First of all, how would they know since the plant is under DPR control and an investigation hasn't even begun yet. Secondly, the area has been under shelling by the Kiev junta's invasion forces.

By now, Washington must be realizing that it picked a bunch of grade "D" morons to run the Kiev junta. They are even dumber than Obama who, during an interview with CNN, accidentally gave away the fact that the U.S. was involved in the coup.

The "cigarette butt" statement is even more ridiculous than Poroshenko's performance waving around "Russian passports" in Munich." :lol

- Mike
_ 


Huge explosion at Donetsk chemical plant, *Kiev blames ‘dropped cigarette butt’
*
The center of the blast was near DKZHI,” co-chairman of the anti-Kiev People’s Front Konstantin Dolgov said on his Facebook page. The factory is known for producing chemical products used for industrial explosives, ammunition and equipment artillery bombs. *This is not the first time the plant has been the target of a Kiev attack. It was also hit with artillery rockets in September and November...* 

The militia forces would not immediately confirm if there were casualties, either among militiamen or civilians. But they said the fire, which started after the explosion, poses no threat of a chemical spill, which is a cause of great concern at the plant, as it handles toxic compounds in producing explosives. 

“The fire has been contained. There is not threat of chemical spill… *Most likely it was a high-caliber artillery shell,*” said an official from the Donetsk People's Republic. 

*The spokesman for Kiev's Anti-Terrorist Operation said that rebels were at fault for the accident. 

"This was caused by a dropped cigarette butt," Andrey Lysenko told the media on Monday.* 

Not all pro-Kiev officials agreed. 

The Ukrainian military deployed a Smerch (the BM-30 Tornado) multiple rocket system to shell the area in the city, Boris Filatov, former deputy head of the industrial Dnepropetrovsk Region and a member of the Ukrainian parliament (Verkhovna Rada), said on his Facebook page. 

Read more: http://rt.com/news/230459-donetsk-explosion-ukraine-shelling/


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

With both sides apparently hiding holocaust level atrocious and under reporting their death rates by 20 times THIS MUST THE GREATEST WAR IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am surprised that either groups have any troops or civilians left after the casualty and kill rates that are being tossed around by the state medias


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

An area with unfortunately an ages old history of barbarity, some things never change.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_This just gets better and better. Obama openly admits that Russia could take Ukraine at anytime if it really wanted to. Meanwhile, former president of Georgia and Washington puppet/lickspittle, psycho Mikhail Saakashvili, is ranting on about how the Ukrainian Army could "capture all of Russia if the U.S. would arm it.:lol

How did it work out for Saakashvili when he invaded South Ossetia with American tanks (and Washington's tacit approval) and the Russian Army stepped in??? I guess Mikhail forgot about that. :agree:

- Mike_

Georgia's Saakashvili: A US-Armed Ukraine Could 'Capture All of Russia'









_U.S. puppet and lickspittle, former Georgian president Mikhail Saakashvili_

15:47 07.02.2015

_*Mikhail Saakashvili, the former president of Georgia, told Ukrainian television that with the appropriate knowledge, skills and weaponry, the Ukrainian military could "capture the whole of Russia."*
_
Former Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili told Ukrainian television on Saturday that a properly armed and prepared Ukrainian army has the "spirit" to capture all of Russia.

In an interview for Ukraine's Channel 24, Saakashvili noted that "our officers, who were trained by the Americans, are now training your military. They say that the spirit of Ukrainian soldiers is the best in the world, and that if they were given the necessary knowledge, skills and weapons, they would be able to capture the whole of Russia..."

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150207/1017937004.html 



Obama: If Putin Really Wanted Ukraine, He Could Take It 

By Rob Garver,The Fiscal Times, February 9, 2015

If the men and women fighting against Russia-backed separatists in Ukraine tuned in to the joint press conference between President Obama and German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Monday hoping for good news, they were likely disappointed. Not only did the president offer no promise of the defensive weapons that members of Congress have been urging him to send the Ukrainian army, *he also conceded very publicly that, if Russia really wanted to, it would have no trouble crushing Ukraine’s military...*

...Merkel has been very clear that *she is against the idea of supplying additional arms to the Ukrainian military*, which the Obama administration has not ruled out...

...Obama said that he would not authorize arming Ukraine without consulting with Merkel and other European leaders. And he, once again, pointed out that a *“determined Russian army would be able to overrun Ukraine if Putin chose to let it." *

Read more: http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/...Ukraine-He-Could-Take-It#sthash.81a5f4Df.dpuf


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

you should be happy

proof that the "west" does not all tow the same line, some feel that Ukraine is weak, others feel that the have the spirit to overcome any odds if properly equipped

Truly a showing of the creativity and different views and beliefs of western nations that the eastern ones have largely stifled in the name of "unity"


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_Obama comes clean again! He admitted the U.S. hand was in the Ukrainian coup that overthrew the elected government last year, and now he admits that in general the U.S. uses force to do whatever it wants. And, YOU better do what the U.S. wants or they will come in and kill you! 

In the meantime, the pot continues to call the kettle black as Washington demonizes Russia and points fingers at Russian troops allegedly in Novorossiya. 

- Mike_ 

Obama: 'We have to twist arms when countries don't do what we need them to'

Published time: February 11, 2015 11:37

_*President Barack Obama has said the reality of “American leadership” at times entails “twisting the arms” of states which “don’t do what we need them to do,” and that the US relied on its military strength and other leverage to achieve its goals*._

In a broad-ranging interview with Vox, which Obama himself described as a venue "for the brainiac-nerd types," the US president both denied the efficacy of a purely “realist” foreign policy but also arguing that at times the US, which has a defense budget that exceeds the next 10 countries combined, *needed to rely on its military muscle and other levers of power...* 

*Obama further says that “we occasionally have to twist the arms of countries that wouldn't do what we need them to do...*

“That's the worldview of a country that has spelled out its right to use force arbitrarily in its defense doctrine, regardless of the UN Security Council's resolutions or other international legal acts,” Lavrov said...

Read more: http://rt.com/news/231279-obama-foreign-policy-power/ 

*AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM*


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

I stumbled upon an interesting thread on Reddit. It's called 'Redditors of Russia, has the crisis and sanctions imposed by the US and EU influenced you personally? If so, how?'

Some of the most popular posts:



> type_mismatch
> 
> Russian here. Unfortunately, "To summarize, things did not change much unless you need to buy something for dollars" (as the top comment says) is simply not true.
> -Monthly grocery bills went up ~20% for the last couple of months, even for the local food, because local companies still depend on import (equipment, raw materials, etc.). "Makfa", one of the largest producers of flour, spaghetti and cereals rose the prices by 15% due to the increase in wheat prices. Even locally produced meat got way more expensive.
> ...





> brain-vomit
> 
> I love to travel and I love tasty cheese and ham. And now I can have none of that.
> I mean I could fly to almost any European country for like 5000-7000 rubles a year ago. Now it's more like 10000-15000 (the paycheck is the same. if you're lucky). One way. If booking in advance. Then you have to live somewhere, right? It was like 1500-3000 a night via Airbnb. If booking a whole flat for multiple people. Now the most shitty flats are 5000-7000 a night. So, I really should start using couch-serfing if I want to travel. Not that I have money.
> ...





> realvient
> 
> I'm a first year student in Moscow. As a student, I didn't plan to travel somewhere but I wanted to buy a new laptop from America. It's cheaper there but if in September it cost about 55k roubles ($1400) than now it costs over 100k, so now I'm planning to buy it maybe in autumn, who knows. Scholarship is ludicrous small, about $35 in a month on today's exchange rate and food become more and more expensive every day. My parents are not yet fired and I hope they won't but many companies are just closing and other send employees on leave. I'm trying to find any work now but there are too many unemployed people that search it too, and I've fewer chances as a first year student.
> I can't say anything about Crimea and Ukraine, I just hope that things will become better till the end of the year. Not a good time to start an independent life as I did.
> Edit: when I said "can't say anything about Ukraine" I meant I want this situation not to exist. I am peaceful and I enjoyed our trips to Ukraine. As for now, entering the Ukraine is forbidden for adult males.


Read the whole thing if you're interested, I posted the link above.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

From reddit



> part of ikbrain's post
> 
> But well, instead of tasty food we're fed with unbearable tons of the most crazy and hand-picked bullshit by TV and media. Quick recap:
> 
> ...


If you read they also say that many people in Russia don't view the government like an elected official an more like a people chosen monarchy (you elect them and then love and do whatever they say) which seems to be almost a USSR holdover (but then they did not really had much between the USSR and Putin in the way of leaders)

One guy said he works in a genetic lab and they can't buy new equipment (which is one of those "hidden effects" that most 
people don't think about

Also can someone tell me what is up with Russia and cheese, half the post are talking about cheese


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## Spanish Lariato (Jul 26, 2011)

There are rumours that there will be a peace agreement. It seems that either Belarus or Russia will deploy peacekeepers troops in Novoróssia. It looks too good to be true given all the effort that the NATO Bloc is putting on this.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*CROSSTALK: UKRAINE'S TIPPING POINT*


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

*Ukraine crisis: Leaders agree peace roadmap*

An agreement aimed at ending the fighting in Ukraine has been reached, following marathon talks in Belarus.

The leaders of Russia, Ukraine, Germany and France announced that a ceasefire would begin on 15 February.

The deal also includes weapon withdrawals and prisoner exchanges, but key issues remain to be settled.

The pro-Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine have signed the agreement. Thousands of people have died in almost a year of fighting in the region.

The BBC's Richard Galpin in Minsk says the deal is very similar to a ceasefire agreed last September, which unravelled very quickly.

The latest agreement includes:

Ceasefire to begin at 00:01 local time on 15 February

Heavy weapons to be withdrawn, beginning on 16 February and completed in two weeks

All prisoners to be released; amnesty for those involved in fighting

Withdrawal of all foreign troops and weapons from Ukrainian territory. Disarmament of all illegal groups

Ukraine to allow resumption of normal life in rebel areas, by lifting restrictions

Constitutional reform to enable decentralisation for rebel regions by the end of 2015

Ukraine to control border with Russia if conditions met by the end of 2015

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31435812

Maybe this could lead to actual peace. I only hope for that. Making the whole Eastern Ukraine a demilitarized zone would be a good idea, but then they should do the same with the whole Russia-Ukraine border from both sides.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Anything is possible, but I have serious doubts that this agreement will work. 

- While Ukrainian Army regulars would gladly pull back and end this, the Kiev junta has very little control over its *punitive battalions, i.e. einsatzgruppen, *such as Azov. The *National Guard *was formed less than a year ago and is composed of Western Ukrainian neo-Nazis who, while they may obey orders, would do so grudgingly after getting a taste of blood. The Kiev junta has absolutely no control over the* private armies of Kolomoisky and other oligarchs in the regions*. The agreement says that these private armies are to be disbanded, but who is going to do the disbanding???

- *Poroshenko is going to come under attack by his base of followers, i.e. Western Ukrainian neo-Nazis and their sympathizers*. These are the killers who fought on the Maidan to overthrow the elected Ukrainian government. They have already been demonstrating in Kiev at Poroshenko's offices and the Ministry of Defense to increase war efforts. They even stormed Poroshenko's offices recently. How are they going to take the news that their hopes for a fascist victory in the east are being "sold out."

- *The fact that this deal was brokered without U.S. participation is not going to go over big in DC*. The hawks control Washington and want war in Ukraine. More importantly, the fact that they did not participate in the talks would signal to them that the Europeans finally got some balls. The are not just being led around by the nose anymore and are looking out for European interests - not just kow towing to Washington's diktat.

- While the Donbas region was more than willing to remain in a federalized Ukrainian state before April of last year, *do the people there now really want to be part of a country that is led by a junta that invaded them and committed myriad atrocities??? * 

These are just some of the questions that make this agreement seem improbable. I could be wrong. Time will tell.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_First they overthrew the elected government by violent insurrection. 

Then they banned the two largest political parties in the country, i.e. Party of Regions and Communist Party.

After the elimination of the Regions and Communist Parties independent politicians who did not support the Kiev junta agenda were terrorized and threatened.

Subsequently, elections were held and Poroshenko became the new "president" whom only 27% of the electorate voted for.

The newly "elected?" government reinstated Nazi collaborators such as Bandera as national heroes.

Then they invaded Donetsk and Lugansk, and committed myriad atrocities.

Now they want to put into prison for 5 years anyone who dares to express an opinion that there was no Russian aggression in the eastern regions.

*DOES ANYONE SERIOUSLY BELIEVE THAT THE KIEV JUNTA UNDER POROSHENKO AND YATSENIUK HAS HONORED, OR WILL HONOR, ANY AGREEMENTS WITH THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE IN THE EAST???
*
- Mike
_
5yrs for ‘denying Russian aggression’: Ukraine may criminalize anti-war speech










"Mothers of Volyn (Region in Ukraine) Against War"

Published time: February 12, 2015 08:54 

A bill submitted by an MP from President Poroshenko’s party in the Ukrainian parliament seeks to criminalize public speech that reject the government’s narrative on the civil war, which it describes as a Russian military invasion.

The controversial bill amends the Ukrainian criminal code to make “*public denial or justification of the Russian military aggression against Ukraine in 2014-2015” a felony*. 

The ‘crime’ would carry a penalty ranging from a heavy fine and up to a five-year jail term for repeat offences or convicts who held public office. 

*If the bill is signed into law, it would be the latest move to attack civil freedoms by Ukraine’s post-coup government defending its security policies from criticism*. 

Last week a Ukrainian court ordered the two-month detention of a journalist from western Ukraine who called for a boycott of the ongoing military draft. Ruslan Kotsaba stated that he would rather spend two to five years in prison for refusing to serve in the military than shoot at Ukrainians in what he described as a ‘fratricidal war’. Prosecutors charged him with high treason, a crime carrying a 15-year term in Ukraine. 

*The prosecution of Kotsaba was sharply criticized by Amnesty International*, which labeled him a ‘prisoner of conscience’ and demanded his immediate release... 
Read more: http://rt.com/news/231555-ukraine-bill-agression-denial/


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

CROSS TALK: PEACE OR WAR?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_It appears that my predictions in my last few posts are already starting to come true. A day after the signing of the Minsk Accord Dmitry Yarosh, leader of neo-Nazi Right Sector, refuses to recognize the treaty and will continue fighting in Donbas.

Right Sector, Svoboda, private oligarch armies, the fascists in the government's National Guard and punitive battalions such as Azov could very well follow suit. The Western Ukrainian Nazis have a great deal more influence than the West will admit. 

Even if Poroshenko really wants to end the war (and, personally, I doubt that he does), he may not be able to control the fascist killers that were used during the Maidan insurrection, and now to commit genocide in the east.

- Mike_ 

Ukraine ultranationalist leader rejects Minsk peace deal, reserves right 'to continue war'

Published time: February 13, 2015 15:45 










Ukraine’s Right Sector leader Dmitry Yarosh said his radical movement rejects the Minsk peace deal and that *their paramilitary units in eastern Ukraine will continue “active fighting" according to their "own plans."
*
The notorious ultranationalist leader published a statement on his Facebook page Friday, saying that his radical Right Sector movement doesn’t recognize the peace deal, signed by the so-called 'contact group' on Thursday and agreed upon by Ukraine, France, Germany and Russia after epic 16-hour talks...

Read more: http://rt.com/news/232183-ukraine-yarosh-war-minsk/


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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

i love how this guys keeps calling ukraine neo-nazis


REFRESH MY MEMORY WHO HELPED THE NAZIS INVADE POLAND YO


edit: also lets post articles from better sources please like:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31449981


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

List members' ignorance of the 1939 Liberation of Western Byelorussia from Polish occupation gives me the perfect opportunity to re-summarize those events.

On September 1, 1939 Nazi Germany invaded *POLAND*. On September 17, 1939 the Red Army initiated the *LIBERATION OF WESTERN BYELORUSSIA* that was carved out and given to Poland by the *1918 Treaty of Brest-Litovsk*. 

For the enlightenment of people who have no connection to Belarus and a knowledge of that region that was formed by western propaganda, *the people of Byelorussia welcomed the Red Army as liberators from the hated Poles*. 21 years of Polish oppression had been ended and people went into the streets to welcome the incoming tanks and troops of the Red Army.

My relatives in Grodno on my mother's side were reunited with my relatives in Minsk on my father's side of the family. Even here in the States the parishoners at my church in Brooklyn (who were overwhelmingly from Byelorussia) would reminisce bitterly about their oppression by the Poles in occupied western Byelorussia.

So, in summary, 

*NAZI GERMANY INVADED POLAND!* 

*THE RED ARMY WENT INTO OCCUPIED BYELORUSSIA AND LIBERATED IT FROM THE POLES!* 

- Mike

P.S. We have already discussed 1939 Poland and, also, how the U.S. corporations had huge trade with Nazi Germany before and after the war started. However, I have no problem repeating those posts for those who were not paying attention.


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> List members' ignorance of the 1939 Liberation of Western Byelorussia from Polish occupation gives me the perfect opportunity to re-summarize those events.
> 
> On September 1, 1939 Nazi Germany invaded *POLAND*. On September 17, 1939 the Red Army initiated the *LIBERATION OF WESTERN BYELORUSSIA* that was carved out and given to Poland by the *1918 Treaty of Brest-Litovsk*.
> 
> ...


Having relatives there does not validate Soviet propaganda ,,, But perhaps explains why you persist parroting it.
Poland was carved up according to pre arraigned agreement between Hitler & Stalin. Trying to revisionally pretend otherwise merely validates blood stained tyranny. 

Having said that, Stalins cold moves were obviously in the Soviets interests, Russia could not remain a static bystander while Germans marched. In fact Russian invasion of Poland put Churchill in a difficult position for a while, as its treaty with Poland called for support against any invader, not just Germany.
There were some in England calling for war against Russia, and in view of the post WW1 battles against the commie menace, some saw Germany as a more natural ally than the Soviets.
Obviously, it would have been lunacy the declare war against both Germany & Russia, common sense prevailed and war was declared against what was deemed to be, at the time, the larger devil Hitler.

Poland went through years of hell under both brutal aggressors, was eventually "liberated" by Russia, a puppet government was promptly installed, and proceeded to enjoy half a century of Soviet dominance before finally gaining independence with the crumbling of the USSR.
Would not wish that kind of "liberation" on anyone.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

HornSnaggle said:


> Having relatives there does not validate Soviet propaganda ,,,But perhaps explains why you persist parroting it. .


I don't parrot anyone's propaganda - I post my views based on what I've experienced and what other people whom I know (or knew) experienced.

My views on this particular topic are based on what not only my relatives have told me, but the witness of many other people who lived under Polish occupation of western Byelorussia.

While you are relegated to parroting western history books written by Cold War historians with an anti-Russian agenda on this topic, I have my information from people who lived through the occupation. I have no need to quote Soviet history books. 

- Mike


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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

its fine batko can continue to post his SOVIET UNION IS ALWAYS RIGHT EVERYONE ELSE IS ALWAYS WRONG views as they are his views. 

i do like the sanctions against russia. anything to make their economy totally collapse is fine with me.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_The former Deputy Chief of the independent paramilitary Azov punitive battalion has joined in the denounciation of the Minsk cease fire agreement that is scheduled to go into effect on Sunday.

Igor Moseichuk, presently a parliamentarian representing the neo-Nazi "Radical Party" in the Kiev junta's Verkhovna Rada, denounced the cease fire and said he would work against it.

*This is all falling into place as I predicted. Poroshenko may be hung by his balls on the Maidan by his own fascists before its over!
*
- Mike _


Kiev's ex-deputy chief of paramilitary battalion turned lawmaker vows to defy Minsk deal

February 13, 13:41

_*Former deputy commander of the Azov paramilitary battalion considers the Minsk accords an act of treason betraying national interests*_










KIEV, February 13. /TASS/. A former deputy commander of the Azov paramilitary battalion, *which remains beyond the control of the central command in Kiev*, currently holding a seat in the Ukrainian parliament has vowed to defy the Minsk Accords.

Igor Moseichuk said on his page in Facebook he would exert the maximum efforts to upset the implementation of these agreements in parliament.

"That’s an act of treason. Betrayal of national interests. This is the sole way of describing the text regarding the implementation of the Minsk Accords that Leonid Kuchma signed with the Donetsk and Luhansk republics on behalf of Ukraine," says the radically-minded legislator.

"That arrangement envisages elections in the territories of the Luhansk and Donetsk regions that would let the self-proclaimed republics’ representatives come to power in a legitimate way," he argues.

*Earlier, Moseichuk held the position of a deputy commander of the Azov battalion*. Since November 2014 he has been a member of the Ukrainian parliament from the Radical Party. In the media, *he earned notoriety for shooting at the portrait of Chechnya’s leader Ramzan Kadyrov in public...
*
At the moment the battalion Azov is based in Mariupol. Over recent days it has tried to attack the militias’ positions near the village of Shirokino. *Taking part in the military operation in Donbass are quite a few detachments not subordinate to the authorities in Kiev, such as Right Sector detachments and the battalion Aidar.
*
As Russia’s OSCE envoy Andrey Kelin said at a meeting of the OSCE Permanent Council on Friday at the moment there can be no certainty the paramilitaries on the big business tycoons’ payroll would support a peace settlement in Ukraine. 

*"How can one guarantee the armed groups not subordinate to the central command in Kiev will agree to obey anything?" he asked. "In fact, they are the armed groups mentioned in the Minsk Accords.* There is no certainty that they will support a peace, diplomatic settlement, the way we did," Kelin said. "They must be disarmed and pulled out of the zone of the conflict.".

http://tass.ru/en/world/777430


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> I don't parrot anyone's propaganda - I post my views based on what I've experienced and what other people whom I know (or knew) experienced.
> 
> My views on this particular topic are based on what not only my relatives have told me, but the witness of many other people who lived under Polish occupation of western Byelorussia.
> 
> ...


Well, I guess its not "propaganda" per se if you actually believe it - I think its safe to say that the vast majority of Poles suffered far more under oppressive, brutal Soviet policies and those of their appointed commie puppets than those who felt "liberated".
Indeed, 10,000's of Poles perished in post war power struggles, many simply vanishing into the infamous gulag system of Russia.

Ever hear of a guy named Witold Pilecki ?
A true Polish patriot & warrior - Unfortunately, a little too patriotic for the Soviets liking, executed in 1948.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witold_Pilecki

This guy would come back and thump you on the head for your Stalin hero worship.


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

HornSnaggle said:


> I think its safe to say that the vast majority of Poles suffered far more under oppressive, brutal Soviet policies and those of their appointed commie puppets than those who felt "liberated".
> .


Again, you are missing the point. The area that the Red Army went into and liberated, i.e. western Byelorussia, was *NOT* populated by Poles, except for the Polish governmental bureaucrats, policemen, and soldiers who were stationed there to run things and a few Polish settlers. 80% of the population was Byelorussian and probably around 10% Jews and 10% Poles.

The Byelorussians were happy that they got rid of the Poles and the Jews were happy that they didn't fall into the hands of the Germans. The only ones who weren't happy were the Poles. Their country fell under German control and they lost western Byelorussia which they stole in 1918.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)




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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31470645


Them lyin' russians! woooo


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

LOOKING GOOD​
Ukrainian Ceasefire Comes Into Force: Sides Order to Cease Hostilities

01:29 15.02.2015(updated 02:04 15.02.2015) 

_*Both sides of the Ukrainian conflict ordered to cease fire at midnight, local time, on February, 15 in accordance with the Minsk agreements*_.

MOSCOW (Sputnik) — Ukrainian President ordered all the units on the front line of contact with the independence supporters to cease fire starting from midnight...

All the units of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic's (DPR) militia have ceased hostilities in Donbas at midnight, local time, February, 15, the deputy head of DPR militia said...
READ MORE: http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150215/1018284472.html


WELL THAT DIDN'T LAST LONG​

Kiev Forces Fire Mortars, Shell LPR, DPR Targets – Donbas Militia
02:35 15.02.2015(updated 03:52 15.02.2015)

_*Despite the official beginning of a ceasefire in Donbas, Kiev forces started firing mortars and shelling the positions of the independence supporters of the self-proclaimed people's republics of Donetsk and Luhansk (DPR and LPR)*.
_

DONETSK (Sputnik) —The leader of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic (DPR), Alexander Zakharchenko has called an emergency meeting Sunday regarding the violation of silence regime in Donbas by Kiev forces, the deputy head of DPR militia said...

Eduard Basurin said that at 02:00 (February 14, 23:00 GMT) armed groups of Kiev militants in the town of Debaltseve have opened fire targeting the positions of LPR and DPR...

READ MORE: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150215/1018285443.html


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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

OF COURSE UKRAINE BREAKS TREATY AND NOT THE SEPARATISTS ALL HAIL STALIN


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> *I don't parrot anyone's propaganda - I post my views* based on what I've experienced and what other people whom I know (or knew) experienced.
> 
> My views on this particular topic are based on what not only my relatives have told me, but the witness of many other people who lived under Polish occupation of western Byelorussia.
> 
> ...


Oh, so you're not parroting, just posting your views, but when someone has a different opinion than you, he is parroting. Yeah, he's totally not doing the same thing as you fpalm


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_It would appear that both eastern and western media agree that the ceasefire is holding for the most part after a shaky start.

I would be amazed if things stay relatively quiet for more than a week or two.

- Mike
_

http://rt.com/news/232443-ukraine-donbass-semblance-peace/

http://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-russia-rebels-vow-to-abide-ceasefire-1423923477

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...220540638?nk=aa4492c47400fe9d13f376bee61a9304


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

So are you just going to ignore Tomas' (good, btw) point?


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## CJ (Jun 28, 2011)

Allur said:


> So are you just going to ignore Tomas' (good, btw) point?


Isn't that what always happens when someone makes a good point in here.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Allur said:


> So are you just going to ignore Tomas' (good, btw) point?


Exactly! I explained my position in the post - I took my information NOT from any media or historical written sources (Soviet, Western, or otherwise), but from people who lived through the Polish occupation of Byelorussia. I'm not about to answer a post that is a provocation. 

I have no interest in proving anything to Tomas or any of his cronies. It's a waste of breath. My posts are aimed at readers who are interested in finding out about more than the Western media's ceaseless attacks on Russia and the revision of history. 

- Mike


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> Exactly! I explained my position in the post - I took my information NOT from any media or historical written sources (Soviet, Western, or otherwise), but from people who lived through the Polish occupation of Byelorussia. I'm not about to answer a post that is a provocation.
> 
> I have no interest in proving anything to Tomas or any of his cronies. It's a waste of breath. My posts are aimed at readers who are interested in finding out about more than the Western media's ceaseless attacks on Russia and the revision of history.
> 
> - Mike


It was not a provocation. It was just a question. Maybe you're just too paranoid and feel like everyone is attacking, trying to provoke you.

Also, I think it's just wrong that you don't feel the need to prove anything to anyone, but think that everyone must prove everything to you. Just take some time and think about that for a minute.


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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

lmao this guy is a trip man. THEY LIBERATED POLAND!


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_The puppet government of the Kiev junta justs get more and more bizarre. As I reported earlier, the junta is inviting foreigners to come to Ukraine to run key government agencies. It is bad enough that they are bringing in Americans. * Now they are hiring American lickspittles who are wanted by the police in their home countries*.

With tacit American approval, Mikhail Saakashvili ordered the unprovoked invasion of South Ossetia in 2008. Russia responded and kicked his ass destroying 40 American supplied tanks in the initial battle and then chasing Saakashvili's thugs across the border back to Tbilisi.

The Georgian people's protests agains the insane policies of psycho Saakashvili were met with violent repression. *After being voted out, Saakashvili wisely left the country and has been living in the home of his American masters for the last couple of years*. 

With an arrest warrent issued by the Georgian Attorney General's office hanging over his head one would think that the West would turn him over to his country for prosecution. Oh, no! Heaven forbid! That would be the right thing to do. Instead, the American installed Kiev junta hired him to "coordinate arms supply issues." 

Amazing!

- Mike
_


Ukrainian ambassador summoned to Georgia’s foreign ministry

World 
February 15, 19:27 UTC+3









_Former Georgian president and wanted criminal, Mikhail Saakashvili, assumes his new post in the government of the Kiev junta_

TBILISI, February 15. /TASS/. *Ukraine’s Ambassador to Georgia has been summoned to the Georgian Foreign Ministry over the recent appointment of Georgia’s former President Mikhail Saakashvili chairman of the international consultative reform council in Ukraine, local media reported on Sunday, citing sources in the Georgian foreign ministry...
*
...Earlier, Eka Beselia, a leader of the Georgian Dream coalition, who chairs the human rights committee of the Georgian parliament, said that the Ukrainian authorities’ decision to appoint Saakashvili to the post was a "mistake." She said appointing people whose policy was harmful to Georgia would not be in the interests of Ukraine...

... "Georgia had to live through many tragic episodes due to Mikhail Saakashvili’s mistakes," Bidzina Ivanishvili, the founder of the Georgian Dream coalition and former Prime Minister of Gerogia, said in an interview with the Kviris Palutra newspaper earlier on Sunday. "I think the appointment of such a man as an adviser in Kiev will bring no good to Ukraine..." 

...Saakashvili left Georgia in mid-November 2013 several days before the expiration of his presidential term. Ever since, he has been living in either the United States or in Ukraine. *On July 28, 2014, the Georgian Prosecutor General’s Office ruled to bring Saakashvili to criminal liability on charges of acting in excess of his office duties when issuing an order to the Tbilisi police on November 7, 2007 to crush down civilian protesters in Tbilisi...*

Read more: http://tass.ru/en/world/777739


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## mkh (Mar 25, 2005)

hi from Estonia.basically same here


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

Sorry, my great grandmother is not from Ukraine so I have no reliable 1st hand sources and have to rely on evil imperialist western sources for info.
It would appear that "the rebels", AKA Soviet Proxy Force, intend to honor the cease fire only if it is in their interests to do so.



Ukraine rebels disavow ceasefire at encircled town

DONETSK/ARTEMIVSK, Ukraine (Reuters) - Ukraine's rebels disavowed a new truce on Sunday hours after it took effect, saying it did not apply to the town where most fighting has taken place in recent weeks.

Guns fell abruptly silent at midnight across much of eastern Ukraine in line with the ceasefire agreement, reached after a week of diplomacy led by France and Germany.

But pro-Russian rebels announced they would not observe the truce at Debaltseve, where Ukrainian army forces were encircled and Kiev military said rebel attacks on the town steadily increased from mid-afternoon on Sunday.

"Of course we can open fire (on Debaltseve). It is our territory," senior rebel commander Eduard Basurin told Reuters. "The territory is internal: ours. And internal is internal. But along the line of confrontation there is no shooting."

A statement by the Kiev military on Sunday night said the "enemy" was carrying out attacks with varied types of weapons, including Grad rocket systems, and had a plan to try to seize Debaltseve from the west.

In a four-way telephone conversation with the leaders of Germany, France and Russia's Vladimir Putin, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said the position of the four at peace talks last week in Belarus had been for a ceasefire on all the front lines including at Debaltseve.

Poroshenko stressed that a withdrawal of military equipment and heavy weapons required a "full and unconditional" ceasefire under the Minsk agreement, his press service said.

The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, responsible for monitoring the ceasefire, said rebels had denied its observers access to Debaltseve.

Both sides blamed what firing there was on the enemy. But Debaltseve has been the focus of fighting for weeks, and it will be hard to speak of a truce if Ukrainian troops remain trapped there under fire, or the rebels press on with their advance.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Thursday's peace deal including the truce must be implemented "unconditionally". But he made no mention of whether Moscow believed the truce applied to Debaltseve.

TOWN ALMOST CUT OFF

Ukrainian forces have for weeks been holding out in the town, which sits astride a railway junction in a pocket between the two main rebel strongholds.

Rebels say they have completely encircled the town, but Ukraine says its forces have kept open a road to resupply it in the face of a Russian-backed onslaught.

Washington says regular Russian forces armed with tanks and missile launchers advanced on the town from all sides in the days before the truce.

Reuters journalists operating on the rebel side have seen armored columns of troops without insignia arriving in the area in recent days.

In the main rebel center, Donetsk, Reuters journalists said artillery had been exploding every few seconds in the hours before the ceasefire, but halted abruptly at midnight.

A Ukrainian military spokesman said the ceasefire was being "generally observed". Its forces had been shelled 10 times since the truce took effect in localized incidents, and no soldiers had been killed.

Poroshenko, wearing the uniform of the armed forces' supreme commander, announced the order to stop firing in a midnight televised address, but said there was still alarm over Debaltseve.

"LAST CHANCE"

"I very much hope that the last chance to begin the long and difficult peaceful process for a political settlement will not be wasted," he said, adding, however, that if Ukraine were slapped, it would not "turn the other cheek".

The ceasefire, negotiated in all-night four-power talks on Thursday, foresees creation of a buffer zone and withdrawal of heavy weapons. More than 5,000 people have been killed in a conflict that has caused the worst crisis in Russia-West relations since the Cold War.

Putin denies Moscow is involved in fighting for territory that he calls "New Russia" but Washington and its allies have imposed economic sanctions over Russia's role in the conflict.

U.S. President Barack Obama expressed "deep concern" about the violence around Debaltseve prior to the ceasefire in a telephone call with Poroshenko, the White House said. Obama also spoke to German Chancellor Angela Merkel, a key actor in the Minsk agreement.

It was Merkel who negotiated the truce along with President Francois Hollande of France at talks with Poroshenko and Putin. The Kremlin said the four leaders would continue to speak by phone.

Maxim, a rebel fighter at a checkpoint on a road from Donetsk to government-held Dnipropetrovsk, said he did not expect the ceasefire to hold.

"Truce? I doubt it. Maybe two to three days, and then they will start shooting again. This is all for show. The OSCE is driving around here, so of course they are being quiet."

http://news.yahoo.com/guns-fall-silent-ukraines-donetsk-poroshenko-orders-ceasefire-005244850.html


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

mkh said:


> hi from Estonia.basically same here


Hows the seafood?

I can't get shit here in Chad 

VOTE Déby!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_The hypocritical governments and media in the West believe in freedom of speech and democracy only when it suits them and their agenda for the moment. Anyone who even suggests a differing opinion is subject to demonization.

- Mike
_
EAST EUROPEAN LEADERS THE WEST PREFERS TO DEMONIZE

15.02.2015

Western media commentators have raised a bit of a stink over Vladimir Putin's upcoming visit to Hungary. Sputnik asks why it is that independence-minded leaders like Hungary's Prime Minister Viktor Orban are seen as such a big a thorn in the side of the EU and the US...

Ahead of Russian President Vladimir Putin's visit to Hungary Tuesday to meet with Prime Minister Viktor Orban, *Western media commentators were sure to remind their listeners and readers about just how much of a bad guy the Prime Minister was*, and just how far he stood outside the European consensus on a great number of issues, including relations with Russia...

The fact that Hungary must humbly explain its motives for meeting with the Russian president to the EU and Washington is understandable, given the constricting political environment the country finds itself in. At the same time, *it is somewhat odd that, in the 21st century, the country is not free to conduct its own foreign policy toward Russia*,...

Whatever issues and fears drive European and American commentators regarding Orban's mildly rebellious attitudes and behavior, *the prime minister is not the only, and far from the first Eastern European leader to be blacklisted by EU and US policymakers and analysts since the collapse of the Soviet Union...
*
*Other independent-minded officials, including Czech presidents Vaclav Klaus and successor Milos Zeman, have also been the subject of media criticism and political ostracism*, the latter for his estimation that the Ukrainian conflict was "a civil war" rather than a "Russian invasion," and for his anti-Khodorkovsky, anti-Pussy Riot outbursts. Zeman's contrarian statements have resulted in Bohuslav Sobotka, the country's prime minister, attacking the President, warning that his "dangerous" statements risked alienating the Czech Republic from the EU and NATO...

And it's not just a matter of having a positive opinion of Russia. *Anyone who goes against what Brussels considers to be in vogue at the moment is slammed by journalists and commentators *—case in point: the Kaczynski brothers in Poland...

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/analysis/20150215/1018314027.html


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)




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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*CROSS TALK: MINSK CEASEFIRE 2.0*


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## GGGGGGGG_G_UNIT (Jul 28, 2014)

I'm racist towards everyone who's helping make the world a shitter place, That means Europe is a no fly zone ! for me personally

Look at sweeden, That place is a racist, pro Muslim shit hole, Who the fuck would want to holiday their ! 

and the worst part is Australia is heading down that same path !

I fully intend on jumping ship to the states when the ''takeover'' really begins, 

Atleast in the states white people have balls and will defend themselves ! good luck getting any white Australia to help you out, their politically correct addicts, just like all those morons in sweeden ''' oh let them in it's sad the middle east if fucked'' did it EVER occur to you that was THEIR CHOICE 

you mean too tell me if everyone over their worked together they couldn't fix that country ? get the fuck outta here ! Think about all the money they blow from buying weapons from the west, That's right im not ignorant, im aware our government sells them to weapons, but yeah.... that's why their poor, they'd rather buy guns then do meaningful shit like being infrastructure, 


This is why im racist, against everyone I including whites, Nobody wants freedom anymore like I do, everyone wants power and other selfish bullshit,


All I want is to live in a place where if you act like a violent thug you're thrown into a cage into you learn to behave, simple right, Then we can fix the other 100,000 problem we face, 

nobody wants to do that though, they just want everyone to breed and overpopulate the world with no concern for future generations !


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

A racist who apparently loves G-Unit :jericho2:aries2:lmao:lmao


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_There's nothing surprising here knowing the pro-Nazi bent of the Baltics and their support for the fascist Kiev junta. However, these marches should be reported and not swept under the rug and hidden from the public as is done by the Western media.

- Mike
_
500 Lithuanian fascists march near WWII-era execution site of 10,000 Jews








[/IMG]

Published time: February 17, 2015 17:45 

About 500 Lithuanians, some sporting Nazi swastikas, attended a far right march in the country’s second city of Kaunas. The city was the scene of the Baltics worst World War II-era Jewish pogroms, where nearly 10,000 people were killed in one day.

Monday’s march was the eighth such event organized by the Lithuanian Nationalist Youth Union to coincide with one of Lithuania’s two independence days on February 16...

...“*This march is particularly offensive because it is taking place where locals and Nazis murdered more than 10,000 Jews in one day*,” Dovid Katz, a US-born Jewish scholar who moved to the capital Vilnius 16 years ago told the daily. 

Katz, who edits a website called DefendingHistory.com, was referring to Kaunas massacre of October 29, 1941, where *Nazi death squads, collaborating with Lithuanian partisans, killed 2,007 Jewish men, 2,920 women, and 4,273 children in a single day*. It was the single worst massacre of Jews in the Baltics during the war... 


Read more: http://rt.com/news/233119-neo-nazis-march-lithuania/


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Batko10 said:


> _There's nothing surprising here knowing the pro-Nazi bent of the Baltics and their support for the fascist Kiev junta. However, these marches should be reported and not swept under the rug and hidden from the public as is done by the Western media.
> 
> - Mike
> _
> ...


This was pretty widely reported on the news here in Lithuania. And actually, I was just waiting for you to nitpick on this. They asked marched in Kaunas and also thin the capital Vilnius. But I still fail to see what you are trying to prove here. That there are nazis in Lithuania? Yes. So there are in Russia, Columbia, Mozambique and Germany. Does that prove anything? I don't think so. here is an article about a nazi march in Russia. Does that mean that Russia is a nazi country?

Also, it's interesting how you completely forgot to mention a pro-Russian, anti-NATO rally in Kaunas, which happened on the very same day. I guess your masters over at RT don't like it when something goes against their agenda. *They're trying to portray Lithuania as a fascist, nazi country and BAM! A pro-Russian rally. Let's better not report it.*


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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

get rekt stalin lover


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Of course Batko has never heard of Nikolay Korolev, Tesak or Ekaterina Zigunova

Russia & all it's 143 million citizens are all perfect socialist tolerant loving people who are being unfairly picked on by the American loving west


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_The Kiev junta's military is in disarray and crumbling. The Ukrainian Army regulars, i.e. draftees, have no will to fight and be used as canon fodder for the U.S. expansion into Ukraine. The neo-Nazi National Guard and einsatzgruppen punitive battalions such as Azov don't have the numbers to fight alone for any length of time.

It looks like the American taxpayers will be digging deep into their pockets to rearm the Kiev junta. Unfortunately for the hawks in Washington all the weapons in the world won't help when the Ukrainian people don't want to fight against their brothers and sisters in the east. Most refuse to be inducted into the military and don't show up for the draft call up.

- Mike 

_
*KIEV JUNTA'S FORCES DRIVEN OUT OF DEBALTSEVO, HUNDREDS SURRENDERING* 






Kiev says troops withdrawn from Debaltsevo, rebels claim military ‘surrender en masse’


Published time: February 18, 2015 09:30 
Edited time: February 18, 2015 13:30 

Kiev troops surrounded in the city of Debalstevo have started to surrender en masse, Ukrainian rebels have said. President Poroshenko announced a complete withdrawal from the contested city...

Read more: http://rt.com/news/233363-ukraine-debaltsevo-surrender-withdrawal/


*KIEV JUNTA SPETZNAZ SURRENDERS IN DEBALTSEVO*






Ukrainian Military Pulling Out of Debaltseve

10:59 18.02.2015(updated 16:44 18.02.2015) 

*On Wednesday, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko announced that government troops were withdrawn from the strategic transport hub of Debaltseve in eastern Ukraine, where about 5,000 soldiers had been surrounded by independence supporters.*

KIEV (Sputnik) – Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has confirmed the planned withdrawal of troops out of the Debaltseve area...

Earlier, the withdrawal of Ukrainian forces was announced by Donbas battalion commander and parliament member Semen Semenchenko.

“The withdrawal of troops from Debaltsevo is underway as planned and organized,” Semenchenko wrote on his Facebook page Wednesday, adding: “All of the stories about the control over Logvinovo turned out to be fairy tales and the pumpkin didn’t turn into a carriage.”

Also on Wednesday head of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic's administration Maksim Leshchenko said *Ukrainian military commanders had ditched the city of Debaltseve, leaving regular Ukrainian troops demoralized*. 

"*Debaltseve is currently being swept, the Ukrainian troops there are demoralized, the commanders have left*, and there is practically no mobile phone service because the communications tower was destroyed," Donetsk News Agency quoted Maksim Leshchenko as saying...

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150218/1018413743.html


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

See what I mean :cena


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

It actually looks like Bakto is angling for a job offer from Pravda


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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

all in favor of ignoring batkos posts from here on out?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

CROSSTALK: ARE WE WITNESSING WW III?


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

GOD said:


> all in favor of ignoring batkos posts from here on out?


I don't consider batkos a troll at all, he is just overzealous to the point of being over the top spouting Soviet style propaganda. I have agreed with some of his positions and disagreed, he can hold his own in any debate. He is passionate about this topic to the point of obsession and obviously has his blinders on and isn't about to take them off.
I reserve ignore for blatant trolls and vulgar forum provokers, since batkos doesn't fit the bill I for one don't see any good ignoring him. If you strongly disagree with his positions, if you consider him an ideological enemy, best thing to do is keep tabs on his positions and counter them when able.


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

The DNR insurgent is wearing a hat with an NY logo on. Reverse the situation & put the same on a UKR fighter. Incoming RT articles and videos from Batko how this clearly means THE NEO-FASCIST WEST IS CLEARLY SUPPORTING POROSHENKO'S KIEV JUNTA!!!!!!!


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_One of the more interesting aspects of the mass draft dodging in Ukraine is that running away from conscription is rife even in the Kiev junta's base support regions of Western Ukraine. Apparently, Poroshenko's war against his own people is loosing support everywhere in the country.

Even more ironically, the vast majority of the tens of thousands of Ukrainian draft dodgers are fleeing to the very country that Poroshenko and his masters in Washington have demonized and named the enemy - *RUSSIA!* 

*Apparently, most Ukrainians don't consider Russia a "demon," nor an enemy!* 

Draft aged males in Western Ukraine have been fleeing to Poland which proved to be a mistake. Warsaw is rounding them up and sending them back to the Kiev junta to be served up as cannon fodder.

Even with Washington's support and funding I don't see Poroshenko and the Kiev junta long for this world. I stand by my prediction that it will be overthrown in another Maidan by the very ultra-nationalists and neo-Nazis who were used to put them in power in the first place. Eventually, the starving millions of normal Ukrainians will kick those out and, hopefully, resume normal relations with their brothers and sisters in the East! 

- Mike_ 


http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/02/18/the-draft-dodgers-of-ukraine-russia-putin/ 

FP

The Draft Dodgers of Ukraine


_*The country’s struggling army is trying to replenish its ranks. But with its forces taking a pounding in the east, Kiev is discovering that new recruits are making themselves scarce*.
_
By Alec Luhn
February 18, 2015










KIEV, Ukraine — Roman has been dodging the draft for almost a month now.

A longtime political activist and accountant in Lviv, in western Ukraine, he no longer lives where he’s registered at his parents’ house in a small village outside the city, so he wasn’t there when the local draft board tried to serve him notice on Jan. 16. His father refused to sign at first; he relented after the head of the village threatened to call the police. But Roman, 24, who declined to give his last name for fear of being tracked down, never showed up for the required medical examination.

“I am against every war, but especially this war, because it’s meaningless,” said Roman, who has been staying in an apartment in Lviv that belongs to his wife’s relatives. “*I think this conflict was created artificially. The Ukrainian mass media helped this along by spreading this patriotic hysteria.”*

Desperate for manpower in its standoff with pro-Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine, which has lasted some 10 months and killed at least 5,600, the Ukrainian military early this year reinstituted a general draft, giving itself the power to conscript young men between the ages of 20 and 27.* But a huge number of Ukrainians, like Roman, are reportedly avoiding service, either because they’re disturbed by the prospect of fighting their fellow countrymen in the rebel ranks, are against the war in principle, or because they are simply afraid to go*. 

Although no exact figures on the number of those avoiding conscription are available, it could be as many as tens of thousands: The military said in September that during partial mobilizations in 13 regions *in 2014, 85,792 of those summoned didn’t report to their draft offices and 9,969 were proven to be illegally avoiding service*.

Now young men with views like Roman’s are on the run as the government tries to stem a rash of reported draft dodging and is cracking down on anti-war sentiments. *Last week, high-profile journalist Ruslan Kotsaba was detained on charges of treason and espionage after he spoke out against mobilization. Days later, President Petro Poroshenko announced that the security service had “detained 19 active critics of mobilization” for their “anti-Ukrainian activity.” *New regulations reportedly in the works could soon prevent those eligible from service for going abroad or even leaving their home regions without permission.

The reports of large-scale draft dodging have raised questions about whether Ukraine will, in the face of a cease-fire that appears increasingly shaky, be able to recruit the manpower it needs — and whether it will be able to do so without repressing freedom of speech or civil liberties.

Roman, for his part, is nervous. This month, worried that his arguments against the war would attract the attention of the authorities, Roman deleted all the posts on his Facebook page.

“I deleted everything, cleaned out the page, because I’m afraid,” he said. “I’ve been reading the statements of these parliamentarians that social network pages are full of terrorist propaganda … that what you write on networks can be held against you, that censorship should exist even on the Internet.”

The Ukrainian military, hollowed out by years of corruption, was woefully unprepared for the pro-Russian uprising that began in eastern Ukraine in April. The moribund army, which before the start of the conflict had been reduced to begging for gas and batteries from donors and only had 6,000 combat-ready troops, was forced to rely on well-wishers — often drawn from the ranks of the country’s oligarchs — to buy supplies. A vast web of volunteer battalions sprang up to fill the manpower gap — *some of which, operating only loosely within the scope the military’s chain of command, have been accused of human rights abuses and war crimes*.

Once conscription-based, *the army abolished the draft in October 2013 as part of reforms under former President Viktor Yanukovych that sought to create a more professional fighting force*. And when fighting in eastern Ukraine broke out in spring 2014, the country didn’t immediately resort to a draft. It relied at first on mobilizing solely from the ranks of former soldiers to replenish its lines: In July, Parliament approved Poroshenko’s order for a “partial mobilization” of those with military experience and *raised from 50 to 60 the age at which former soldiers could be called up*. Kiev conducted three waves of these mobilizations in 2014, which have grown the country’s military forces to 200,000 men, according to Sergey Pashinsky, head of the national security and defense committee in the Ukrainian parliament.

But despite these efforts, Kiev’s losses have mounted, especially during a rebel counteroffensive in August and September. Poroshenko said in December that 1,252 servicemen had been killed, and the number has been rising over the past month as the separatists have pushed forward, capturing Donetsk airport and, on Tuesday, the railroad junction town of Debaltseve.

As early as May 2014, then-acting President Oleksandr Turchynov signed a decree reinstating the general draft, although conscripts were not called up immediately. Now the army’s plans call for conscripting 40,000 20- to 27-year-olds for 18 months of service, and recruiting 10,500 professional soldiers (who voluntarily sign a contract) over the course of the year, although Poroshenko has promised the conscripts won’t be sent to fight in Kiev’s “anti-terrorist operation” in the east immediately, but will instead be sent to train and serve in rear posts. In addition, the army recently announced plans to call up 20,000 additional reservist ex-soldiers in the first quarter of the year to replace 20,000 mobilized in March, and may mobilize another 40,000 to 50,000 replacements between April and August.

*The military may even call up women who are of good health, have indicated a desire to serve, or have “army-relevant education*,” military spokesman Vladislav Seleznev said this month, although he said the “majority” of those enlisted will serve in support positions rather than combat duty.

*The draft announcements have been met with alarm even in the country’s traditionally more nationalistic west. Ukrainian outlets have published reports of men fleeing the country en masse to avoid being drafted*. In one village in the Ternopil region, 45 men out of the 60 who were to be called up left the country five days beforehand, and all the draft-age men in another village disappeared overnight, regional draft office commissar Andriy Masly told journalists. *Of the 14,000 men who were supposed to present themselves at the regional draft office for medical examinations, 7,500 didn’t show up, he said.*

Roman said that out of the 36 young men in his home village who were called up, he knows several who are avoiding service. More than 1,300 criminal investigations have been opened against citizens suspected of evading military service, according to the Defense Ministry.

*The situation is even stickier in other parts of the country where the population is divided between those who back Kiev and those who sympathize with the pro-Russian rebels*. Small anti-mobilization rallies have been held in places like Zaporizhia, which borders Donetsk region and is close to rebel-controlled areas.

Russian media have jumped to cover such protests, and president Vladimir Putin has encouraged the rash of draft dodging, ordering officials to change legislation so that Ukrainian citizens can stay in Russia for longer than the allotted 30 days and won’t “have to return to Ukraine, where they are being caught and sent under the bullets again.” Russia’s Federal Migration Service said at the beginning of February that 20,000 conscription-age Ukrainian men had entered the country in just one week and that a total of 1,193,000 such men were in Russia. (Though traditionally, thousands of Ukrainians have regularly gone to Russia for work.)

*The Ukrainian government’s response to reports of draft dodging has been to tighten the screws on civic freedoms*. At the end of January, Poroshenko ordered the government to adopt legislation to regulate travel abroad for those eligible for conscription. In February, the armed forces said it would forbid draft-eligible men from leaving their home provinces without permission from the local military commissar.

The moves come just as Ukraine faces increasing scrutiny for its handling of the detained journalist, Kotsaba, who faces treason and espionage charges for recording a video statement in which he called on Ukrainians to resist Kiev’s “illegal” mobilization, and argued that the conflict in eastern Ukraine was a “civil war,” not an “anti-terrorist operation,” as Kiev officially calls it. (Kotsaba was detained for 60 days and, if convicted, could spend at least 15 years in prison.)

*Human rights watchers roundly condemned Kotsaba’s detainment, and Amnesty International declared him a prisoner of conscience.* But that hasn’t stopped the Ukrainian government from pursuing other measures that would clamp down on freedom of speech when it comes to the fighting: After Kotsaba’s arrest, Anton Geraschenko, an aid to interior minister Arsen Avakov, said he was working with Parliament to introduce legislation making it a crime to publicly call on people to avoid mobilization. On Feb. 7, Geraschenko warned activists planning to hold a picket against mobilization the next day that if they spoke out, each of them would be held for several hours to ascertain their identity, Amnesty International reported.

Valeria Lutkovskaya, Kiev’s official human rights czar, said in a statement on Tuesday that the “persecution of journalists and civic activists for their activities is unacceptable.” Lutkovskaya said she was “fairly confident” that Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights, which guarantees the freedom of expression, had been violated.

But Roman is not waiting around to find out. He is searching for work in other countries and plans to emigrate once he does.

“I’m planning to leave country for a time, until this war ends,” he said. “I don’t understand how you can force a person to pick up a gun if he doesn’t want to.”

Vladimir Shtanko/Anadolu Agency/Getty Images


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

GOD said:


> all in favor of ignoring batkos posts from here on out?


What do you mean, 'from now on'?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_It is hard to consider the present day Ukraine as little more than a nascent colony or satellite of the United States. Obama recently admitted U.S. complicity in last year's coup that overthrew the elected Ukrainian government. Last year it was Victoria Nuland who, in fact, handpicked the top leaders who are still in charge of the present day Kiev junta. 

The installation of foreigners (including Americans) as ministers to run governmental departments, the financial interests of the Biden family in the Ukrainian energy sector, and U.S. financial and political support for the Kiev junta's genocide in the east all seem to indicate the loss of Ukrainian sovereignty and decision making to foreigners, i.e. Washington.

- Mike
_

Brokering power: US role in Ukraine coup hard to overlook

Published time: February 19, 2015 05:58 









_US VP Joe Biden let's the Ukrainian Rada know who the boss is!_

After months of denying having a hand in the Ukrainian coup, US President Barack Obama admitted playing power broker for the “transition.” This probably falls short of America’s actual involvement.

Washington was investing heavily in Ukraine long before the Maidan protests started in Kiev in 2013. According to Victoria Nuland, the State Department’s top diplomat for Europe, *since 1991 America has poured $5 billion of taxpayers’ money into what she called assisting Ukrainians in building “democratic skills and institutions.”* 

Some of the money went into sponsoring various NGOs, political parties and media outlets. For instance, Hromadske.tv, an internet-based television channel created in summer 2013, received a grant of some $50,000 from the US embassy. The channel provided full-time coverage of the Maidan protests and gave a platform to various opposition figures. 

*Such funding is a well-known tool of the American government. *Washington describes it as promoting a positive change and denies accusations that it gives money to get leverage to pursue its own goals in targeted countries. *But in Ukraine US officials played a far more prominent role than simply funding local players.* 

Some like film director Oliver Stone even call it a US-staged coup, while former US Congressman Ron Paul called for the US to stop meddling in Ukraine...

*READ MORE:* http://rt.com/news/233439-us-meddling-ukraine-crisis/


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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

lol he talks about ukraine being a satellite for the US like russia hasnt had satellite countries :lmao


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

GOD said:


> lol he talks about ukraine being a satellite for the US like russia hasnt had satellite countries :lmao


Also, this:

"I really want this peace treaty to be effective"

*separatists ignore peace treaty, capture city*

"Everything's perfectly fine"


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_Pig Poroshenko did his best to make the crushing defeat and humiliation of the Kiev junta's forces in the Debaltsevo Cauldron look like a strategic retreat. However, the chocolate king wasn't fooling anyone, least of all the Western media who was cheering for him and the junta.

It had to be a pretty bad beating for the Western media to actually contradict Poroshenko and admit that the Kiev junta's forces were, in fact, trapped and routed. In retrospect, the only reason the pig agreed to a cease fire was because he was getting his ass handed to him and figured that the cease fire would save his invasion forces. Guess again! :| 

As I said, all the American weapons in the world are not going to help Poroshenko and the Kiev junta, because the majority of the Ukrainian people do *NOT* want to fight their own people in the east and are against "Poroshenko's War" for his American masters.

- Mike_

Debaltseve Trap is Failure of Ukrainian Military – Western Media

18:42 19.02.2015(updated 18:47 19.02.2015)










_*Journalists of some leading Western media were surprised to hear Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko’s announcement that the retreat from Debaltseve is "a planned withdrawal".*
_
The New York Times wrote that Poroshenko in his address to the people tried to misrepresent the actual situation near Debaltseve. In fact, the pullout of Ukrainian troops from the embattled city was shadowed by heavy casualties and was not well planned...

...A reporter for British Channel 4 News says "hundreds of Ukrainian troops tell stories which can be described with only one word — defeat"...

...A journalist from The Independent described the retreat of Ukrainian troops from Debaltseve which was not organized and looked more like fleeing...

...The Guardian also noted that the withdrawal from Debaltseve was not organized and soldiers were fleeing from the besieged city...

...The Wall Street Journal described the withdrawal from Debaltseve in the same manner. "It wasn’t a withdrawal. They abandoned us," the newspaper cited one of the soldiers who managed to survive...

READ MORE: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150219/1018487934.html


Around 3,000 Ukrainian Soldiers Killed in Debaltseve Battle - DPR Official

09:51 19.02.2015(updated 12:34 19.02.2015

MOSCOW (Sputnik) – *Approximately 3,000 Ukrainian troops were killed during battles in the city of Debaltseve, the east Ukrainian self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic’s negotiator said Thursday*.

“We emphasized the issue of resolving the ‘surrounding of Debaltseve’ back [when we were] in Minsk, and the heads of the DPR and LPR (Luhansk People’s Republic) wanted to sign the solution to this problem in order to save the lives of thousands of Ukrainian soldiers, but *Kiev did everything possible to brush this off by saying that the situation was under control and they weren’t interested in the lives of so many military personnel,” *Russkaya Sluzhba news agency cited Denis Pushilin as saying...

READ MORE: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150219/1018461416.html


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

So peace treaty is signed, Ukrainian army stop fire, withdraw, while separatists continue fighting and just murdering those who surrendered, and yet somehow, they still are the good guys? :maury fpalm


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## Spanish Lariato (Jul 26, 2011)

Desperate and revolting move by Poroshenko. He is now trying to recruit the ukranians that are in foster care in Spain. Also the age upper limit in now 35 in Ukraine to be call up to combat for the Junta. 
Source(Spanish): http://m.publico.es/actualidad/1901...ovenes-acogidos-en-aragon-para-militarizarlos


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_Poroshenko was informed at the Minsk meetings that his 8,000 troops who were surrounded and cut off in the Debaltsevo Cauldron (pocket) would be forcibly removed if he did not withdraw them. The pig refused and threatened to leave the meeting figuring that his bluff would let him keep his invasion force in that strategic location. 

The EU fell for his bluff - the freedom fighters didn't, and went in there and drove out the Kiev junta's troops despite the cease fire deadline. A disorganized, chaotic retreat of the invaders followed and the rest is history.

It would seem obvious that the pig agreed to this cease fire only to preserve the invasion force's positions in Debaltsevo and Mariupol. His troops are getting their asses kicked on every front and he is stalling for time hoping that his masters in Washington will come in and save him.

*The bottom line is that there will only be a real cease fire and truce once the Kiev junta's troops are completely driven out of Novorossiya, i.e. Donetsk and Lugansk*. 

IF SOMEONE COMES TO US WITH THE SWORD HE SHALL PERISH BY THE SWORD!

ЕСЛИ КТО С МЕЧОМ К НАМ ВОЙДЕТ ОТ МЕЧА ПОГИБНЕТ! 

- Mike_


President Poroshenko Betrayed Ukrainian Army in Debaltseve
15:18 20.02.2015(updated 15:19 20.02.2015) 

Alexander Mercouris









_The flag of Novorossiya is raised above Debaltsevo after the Kiev junta's invasion force was driven out.
_
In reality President Poroshenko sacrificed Ukrainian soldiers because he did not want to incur the wrath of the war party in Kiev by ordering their retreat...

_*...The denial reached farcical levels during the negotiations in Minsk. Half the 16 hours of negotiations were reportedly taken up with attempts to get Ukraine’s President Poroshenko to admit the obvious, that his troops in Debaltseve were encircled. Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko refused to do so, refusing to order his troops to retreat and rejecting all offers from others to arrange this...*
_

_*...Some of the blame must lie with German Chancellor Merkel and French President Hollande. A report published by Der Spiegel confirms that they launched their peace initiative in part in order to save the lives of the Ukrainian soldiers trapped in Debaltseve. Given that this was so, they owed it to these trapped men to make President Poroshenko face reality and see sense...* 
_

...The main responsibility for the debacle must however lie with President Poroshenko. Not only did his refusal to face reality doom many of his soldiers to certain death but ludicrously, following the disaster, he has declared victory, claiming his soldiers’ sacrifice was necessary to “prove” to the Western Powers the Russian military’s involvement in the war...

...In reality President Poroshenko sacrificed his men because he did not want to incur the wrath of the war party in Kiev by ordering their retreat. 

When a commander sacrifices his men for such a reason he has failed in his duty and it is time for him to go.

READ MORE: http://sputniknews.com/columnists/20150220/1018526949.html


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_The true heroes of the American engineered and financed Maidan insurrection are the Berkut officers who stood their ground against armed rioters despite the fact that they were not issued firearms.

Having been in a riot zone back in 1977 as a police officer during the two day July blackout in New York City, I can assure you that neither I nor any of my colleagues would have relished going into that situation without our weapons. I tip my hat to these brave officers who tried to save their country from a foreign instigated revolution!

Subesquent investigations by non-Kiev junta sources have revealed that Berkut was not responsible for the sniper shootings that almost everyone on this list was accusing them of. Aside from the Kiev junta, even western investigators believe that the sniper murders of both police and rioters were committed by a third party in order to fan the flames of the insurrection.

- Mike_



Batons vs Molotovs: Former Berkut riot police recall Ukrainian coup

Published time: February 21, 2015 14:18 









_*Mikhail is a former member of Berkut who, despite not having a firearm, stood his ground and did his duty attempting to restore order during the American engineered coup on the Maidan last year*_.

Former members of the Berkut special force, accused by Kiev of instigating violence during Maidan protests a year ago, feel betrayed by the government and argue they had much less ammunition and supplies than those on the other side of the barricades.

Mikhail, formerly a member of the Crimean Berkut, shows RT how he was equipped to confront Maidan protesters a year ago: A pair of leg guards, a helmet, a shield and a rubber baton. 

*“We didn’t use weapons,” he says, recalling how protesters were growing more and more aggressive with each day and how he once went up in flames, after being hit by a Molotov cocktail.* 

“My clothes were burning, but thanks God the fire was extinguished before it got to my skin. Still, I was injured after a likely homemade explosive landed near me. Such explosives were often used against police by the people from the other side.” 









_*Berkut officer hit by a Molotov cocktail during American instigated and financed Maidan riots*_

Mikhail says he didn’t like getting phone calls from home, as he had to lie he was in the rear so as not to scare anyone. But he was in the epicenter of the fighting. Being a member of the Crimean Berkut was double danger. 

“They were after the Crimean Berkut, because we spoke Russian. When someone in Kiev spoke Russian back then, people asked: ‘Why aren’t you speaking Ukrainian? You are from Crimea?’ and then insults would follow that I don’t want to repeat.” 

Mikhail’s squadron did not take part in the bloody events of February 20, when more than a hundred people lost their lives. *Accusing Berkut of violence is nonsense, Mikhail believes. 
*
*“I still feel bitterness about it, because we were betrayed by the government,” Mikhail says. “I was doing my job. I was protecting the law and order of the country I was a citizen of.” *

After the February coup, he returned to Crimea, which in March voted for seceding from Ukraine and joining Russia. Mikhail says getting Russian citizenship was the most natural idea. 

*Aleksandr Popov and Sergey Khairulsky, also former Berkut, feel the same *about their Russian citizenship. They now serve in the Moscow paramilitary police and say they have nothing to be ashamed of. They feel betrayed by Ukraine. 

*Sergey recalls Maidan protesters as a well-organized and well-sponsored force.* 

“We confiscated phones when we detained people,” he told RIA Novosti. “We also found a lot of those on the barricades. We regularly came across text-messages, listing money transfers. Card numbers, phone numbers, sums of money in hryvnyas and dollars.” 
*
Aleksandr and Sergey say it’s strange there’s almost not a word of casualties among the Berkut, while they saw police personnel die and get wounded.* 

“On Profsoyuznaya one shooter injured six of our people,” Aleksands recalls. “Where he is shooting from is unclear. We went inside that house and found a young man and a girl each with a gun. We took them to the headquarters. I guess they later returned to Maidan as heroes”. 

*Both the ex-Berkuts say they got machine guns on February 21, a day after the bloodshed. The weapons just helped them get out of Kiev, escaping the extremist Right Sector movement activists, who wanted Berkut publicly on their knees at Maidan and later on trial.* 

All of the former Berkut interviewed say they don’t feel sorry for what they did a year ago, and wonder why fulfilling one’s duty could ever be interpreted as a crime. 

During last year’s clashes between Ukrainian anti-government protesters and riot police some 20 police officers and over 100 protesters – now revered as ‘the heavenly hundred’ in Ukraine – were killed. *The majority were victims of the February 20, 2014, incident in which unidentified snipers started shooting on both sides of Independence Square and adjacent Instituskaya Street.* The mass killings were the tipping point of the 2014 Maidan protest, escalating the already violent confrontation into an armed coup. 

A police investigation conducted by the new authorities managed to produce several suspects, all of them Berkut riot police members, who are currently being prosecuted in Ukraine. *The evidence incriminating them has never been made public, with Reuters reporting that the investigation process was flawed.* 

READ MORE: Reuters investigation exposes ‘serious flaws’ in Maidan massacre probe


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

35,000 MARCH IN MOSCOW TO CONDEMN AMERICAN ENGINEERED MAIDAN COUP ONE YEAR AGO TODAY


















































[/CENTER]


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

A sign that talks about Obama killing children and giving him a Hitler stache 

In most parts of the world doing that gets you labeled a right wing radical who has zero sense of the world at large

sort of like those people who are apparently running Ukraine 

I sure love extremest vs extremest


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_It looks like the glorious revolution on the Maidan will benefit foreigners and Ukrainian oligarchs, i.e. crooks. The Ukrainian people are certainly not getting, nor will they get, anything out of it except economic and social misery.

Like a broken record playing the same song over and over, Ukraine has once again traded one group of crooks for another. However, this time they hit the jackpot. Once the United States and the IMF get involved in a country's respective politics and economy it is the death knell for its sovereignty and economic well being.

In addition to looking toward a future as a "debtor slave" to the IMF, any Ukrainian sovereignty that the people believed in will be vaporized as Washington begins to continue to expand its control of the puppets it initially placed in the present Kiev government.

Add to that the home grown oligarchs stealing and transporting out of the country all the physical gold and whatever else is not nailed down. Plus, land grabs by those same oligarchs in conjunction with foreign firms like Monsanto.

Yep. It was a glorious revolution. As they say on the Maidan, "Glory to Ukraine!" What a bunch of fucking assholes! :lol

- Mike_


Looking Back at Euromaidan: Who Benefits From Ukraine's Economic Collapse

17:08 21.02.2015(updated 17:53 21.02.2015)

_*Ukraine's economy is balancing on the brink of default, its gold stocks are vanishing and land-grabbing is taking place. So far, the question remains if the Ukrainian nation still believes in the success of the Euromaidan revolution*..._

[I*]...Ukrainian authorities are celebrating the anniversary of Euromaidan revolution in Kiev this week, turning a blind eye to their own failure to bring the country's economy out of crisis, and pushing it toward "irreversible" collapse, experts note...*
[/I]
...The Ukrainian government is irresponsibly driving the nation deeper and deeper into a debt trap, analysts say, while the country's financial and industry sectors are facing tremendous losses unable to facilitate the growth of the state's economy. More than 50 percent of Ukrainian enterprises are unprofitable... On the other hand, the internal war, launched by Kiev against the Ukrainian eastern region in 2014 has severely weakened the country's economy...

...Making matters worse, the National Bank of Ukraine (NBU) reported in November 2014 that the country's gold bullion reserves had diminished tremendously. *Surprisingly, the NBU head provided no explanation where the country's gold has gone.* Valeria Hontareva, the Governor of the Bank, admitted that *there was almost no physical gold left in the vaults*...

...*Meanwhile, a sinister atmosphere surrounds the seizure of the country's high-quality arable lands by Ukrainian oligarchs and foreign firms, funded by the World Bank and EBRD*. According to German lawmakers, some prominent Western corporations including Monsanto and DuPont have been involved in land-grabbing in Ukraine, using the ongoing military conflict as a cover.

...Ukrainian experts and political activists point out that the corrupt regime of Viktor Yanukovych was replaced by another venal group.*Using the longstanding turmoil in eastern Ukraine as a smokescreen, the Ukrainian oligarchs are exporting capital abroad instead of reinvesting money into the state's economy*. 

READ MORE: http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150221/1018578076.html


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

stevefox1200 said:


> A sign that talks about Obama killing children and giving him a Hitler stache
> 
> In most parts of the world doing that gets you labeled a right wing radical who has zero sense of the world at large
> 
> ...


Western nazis - bad, Russian nazis - good, but let's just not call them nazis. They're patriots, or some bullshit.

And Ukrainians saying 'glory to Ukraine' are such assholes. If they were saying 'glory to Russia' they would be much better, right?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Maidan Madness: How the Virus Infected All of Ukraine (And Might Kill It)


09:00 22.02.2015(updated 11:39 22.02.2015) 

Andrew Korybko










*Sputnik revisits EuroMaidan, exploring the events that led up to the pro-Western coup and the aftereffect that this has had on the rest of Ukraine*.

EuroMaidan finally succeeded in its months-long coup attempt one year ago, *illegally installing a pro-Western government in power at the expense of Ukraine’s democratic processes*. Looking at the event in hindsight and analyzing its consequences, one can obverse a continuum of destabilization that just won’t go away. In fact, the main variables destabilizing the country during EuroMaidan are still doing so today, except that they have even more Western backing than they did beforeand might eventually result in the complete dissolution of the Ukrainian state. 

*PRELUDE TO THE COUP*

There were many things that were going on in Ukraine prior to the coup, but here are three of the most noteworthy:

Color Revolution 2.0:

In essence, the entire EuroMaidan movement was a rebranded form of Color Revolution that adapted its tactics to Web 2.0. Social media and the nexus between it and its conventional counterpart formed the backbone behind EuroMaidan’s mainstream marketing, and the cunning utilization of this hybrid information warfare created a lot of sympathy for the cause. *Unlike previous Color Revolutions, however, EuroMaidan was violent almost immediately from the start, and soon surpassed all of its forerunners in the carnage it caused*.

Right-Wing Extremism:

*Most of the violence associated with EuroMaidan came from Ukraine’s extreme right-wing elements* that became empowered amid the breakdown of law and order that the Color Revolution ushered in. *This was obviously facilitated by John McCain publicly meeting with Oleh Tyahnybok, the leader of Svoboda, a well-known neo-Nazi party.* Direct ideological descendants of the Nazi occupation of Ukraine thus exploited this photo-op of American support to exorbitantly expand their membership rosters, steal the spotlight in lethally leading the coup forward, and accordingly seat themselves in comfortable positions of power after their overthrow succeeded.

Civil War in the West

What most observers have conveniently forgotten is that Western Ukraine was literally up in arms and on the verge of civil war in the final days leading up to the coup. Newsweek magazine published a piece on 20 February, 2014 called “Ukraine: Heading For Civil War”, whereby it documented how ‘protesters’ violently overthrew regional governments in the west of the country and proudly proclaimed that “what's clear is that much of the country has become ungovernable. Even the capital remains in the hands of the rebels.”

International Business Times, in its 19 February, 2014 article “Ukraine Facing Civil War: Lviv Declares Independence from Yanukovich Rule”, shows that parts of the country were actually going as far as seceding from Ukraine. *All the while, these actions carried with them the implicit support of the West, which conveniently forgot its pro-independence leanings when Crimea, Donetsk, and Luhansk decided to follow the exact same path in the aftermath of the successful coup*.

*REGIME CHANGE CONSEQUENCES*

Following Yanukovych’s illegal overthrow by pro-Western insurgents, the above-mentioned destabilizing factors actually grew worse:

Civil War In The East:

Not content with living under an authority that was illegally imposed upon them and threatening to rescind their Russian language rights (seen as a first step towards a larger right-wing-inspired pogrom against the Russian minority), the citizens of Donetsk and Luhansk took steps to exercise their right to self-determination amid the state’s legal collapse. *However, the imposed pro-Western government in Kiev was not content with seeing its eastern citizens do the exact same thing against them that its western counterparts wanted to against the democratically elected Yanukovych government*, and the subsequent civil war killed over 5,000 people and created hundreds of thousands of refugees.

Right-Wing Extremism Institutionalized:

As was mentioned previously, the coup catapulted certain extreme right-wing elements into the heights of power in Ukraine, such as Andriy Parubiy, who went on to serve as the Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine until August 2014. *Not only was a right-wing extremist guiding Kiev’s forces during this long period of Ukraine’s Civil War, but some radical right-wing militias such as the infamous Right Sector were formally integrated into the new ‘National Guard’ that was created after the coup. Not only that, but many more neo-Nazi elements such as the Aidar and Azov Battalions fought informally on the side of the central government.* It’s with scant surprise then that the civil war has turned out to be so bloody, and amidst all of this, there are still some voices in the West that refuse to recognize the existence of any right-wing forces in Ukraine.

So Much For ‘European Values’:

*The irony of EuroMaidan is that while it was preaching the need for Ukraine to embrace ‘European values’ like the ‘freedom of speech’ and ‘democracy’ (both of which were incidentally already present in Ukraine under Yanukovych), when its conspirators seized power, they rapidly went about revoking these same rights.* As but one of the countless examples that can be culled, Russian and suspected ‘pro-Russian’ media in Ukraine is practically all but censored within the state, thus depriving millions of people of their freedom to information and enforcing a harsh suppression on the freedom of speech.

Another example that most comes to mind is the draft that has been recently enacted within Ukraine for men between the ages of 18-60, with draft dodgers (of which there are already reportedly thousands) facing up to five years in prison. During the Vietnam War, Americans celebrated those who evaded the draft as having the courage to face jail for protesting an unjust war, but nowadays, many of those same Americans are hypocritically decrying Ukrainian draft dodgers as ‘abandoning’ their country and ‘selling out’ to the ‘enemy’. *It must also be mentioned that in modern-day Ukraine, speaking out against the draft can also get one arrested on charges of ‘high treason’,* as journalist Ruslan Kotsaba shockingly found out.

*WHAT'S UP NEXT?*

Accordingly, the future for Ukraine looks bleak, and it’s difficult to make a positive forecast about where the country is headed. Being realistic and assessing the situation with a sober mind, the three succeeding scenarios appear most probable:

Formal Right-Wing Coup:

The extreme right-wing elements are unhappy with Poroshenko’s agreement to the Minsk-II accords, and many have stated that they will continue the civil war with or without government support. As the chocolate king keeps losing more of his militarily pivotal right-wing base, it becomes ever more likely that they may conspire their own coup (perhaps another EuroMaidan) to overthrow the government and take power directly into their own hands.

It doesn’t seem likely that Minsk-II will hold the tenuous peace for long, and if it fails, then civil war will restart in the east. At the same time, however, the situation in Ukrainian Bessarabia has been simmering for nearly a year, especially *after the Odesa Massacre of 2 May, 2014, where pro-government supporters burned dozens of anti-Maidan protesters alive in the city’s Trade Unions House. *If a western front centered on Odessa were to be concurrently opened up during the recommencement of civil war in the east, then the state of Ukraine would likely collapse in the same fashion as Yugoslavia did two decades before it.

Rights Roll-Back Continues:

*If there’s one thing that’s all but certain, it’s that Ukrainians can expect their rights to continue being rolled back amid the thunderous applause of Kiev’s new Western ‘partners’*. Since the country is the front-line state in the asymmetrical War on Russia,* it’ll be able to get away with any suppression of rights that it wants, and the number of political prisoners in the country will only continue to grow*. The irony though is that the more that Kiev keeps violating the rights of its citizens, the more motivated the people of Ukrainian Bessarabia become in resisting the government, so these autocratic moves may have the unintentional effect of creating a pro-democracy liberation movement like that in the east, which could then spell the final end of pro-Western domination over the rest of the country’s political minorities.

http://sputniknews.com/columnists/20150222/1018585563.html


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Yeah, I mean, if you were a nazi in disguise, first thing you'd want to do is attack the nazis, real or not. That way nobody would suspect you of being one.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*BOMB ROCKS PRO-MAIDAN DEMONSTRATION IN KHARKOV*






_Kharkov is outside the combat zone in the east and is split regarding its loyalties, although a majority would prefer to break away from the Kiev junta. This observation would seem to be backed up by *the anemic turnout of only 500 pro-Maidan demonstrators *at yesterday's rally marking the anniversary of the American engineered riots on the Maidan in Kiev.

Noone knows who planted or tossed the bomb. Investigations have begun. Anti-fascist partisans who support breaking away from the Kiev junta have blown up power stations, railway yards, and other government and military facilities in the Kharkov region since the overthrow of the elected government by the Maidan insurgents. However, it should be noted that no people have been injured or killed in those actions. 

- Mike _







*
READ REPORT:* http://rt.com/news/234539-blast-kharkov-ukraine-rally/


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Maidan Madness is a similar condition to Reefer Madness

I feel both are under diagnosed and need to be investigated more by the medical community


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_Today the Kiev junta's prosecutor in Kharkov came out and admitted that there is no connection between pro-Donbas groups in Kharkov and Sunday's bombing of the pro-Maidan rally. Pro independence partisan groups have denied taking part in the bombing from the start.

This begs the question, "Who is responsible?" Is it possible that pro-fascist groups that support the Kiev junta could be guilty with the intent that the pro-Donbas partisans get blamed???

- Mike
_


Kharkiv Death Toll Rises to Three, Prosecutor Denies Pro-Donbas Group Link

18:11 23.02.2015(updated 18:29 23.02.2015)










A teen injured in Sunday's bombing in Kharkiv died in hospital on Monday, *as the city prosecutor announced that there is no evidence linking a group aligned with Donbas independence supporters to the attack.
*
The fifteen-year-old who was injured in the bombing at the rally in Kharkiv on Sunday has died in hospital, the city's administration announced on Monday, raising the death toll to three.

*The city prosecutor's office announced that it has no evidence linking the Kharkiv Partisans group to the bombing despite earlier accusations *by advisor to Ukraine's Minister of Internal Affairs and Verkhovna Rada deputy Anton Geraschenko, who stated that the Ukrainian government has evidence linking the group to the bombing.

*"Today we have no direct evidence linking this group to the terrorist attack," the Kharkiv region's Prosecutor, Yuriy Danilchenko announced on Monday*.

A representative of the group, Filipp Ekozyants, confirmed that the group has no connection to the attack to a local news site.

Two people originally died on Sunday and around 10 were injured after a bombing took place at a rally in Kharkiv in support of the Kiev-led military operation against southeastern Ukraine's independence supporters.

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150223/1018638816.html


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)




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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

*China to credit Ukraine for $3.6 bln to reduce dependence on Russian gas*

China is ready to allocate $3.6 bln to Ukraine in order to reduce Ukraine’s dependence on Russian gas. It was announced by Volodymyr Demchyshyn, Minister of Fuel and Energy of Ukraine.

China will credit Ukraine for $3.6 bln to implement a number of projects related to reduction of dependence on Russian natural gas.

“Our delegation has just returned from China, where we had a meeting with the representatives of the Chinese Ministry of Commerce and China Development Bank. The representatives of both organizations confirmed the readiness to open a credit line for our projects.” – said Mr. Demchyshyn.

According to the Minister, the money will be allocated for the modernization of thermal power stations, heating networks and, perhaps, for the construction of coal gasification plant in Odesa.

Source: http://info-news.eu/china-to-credit-ukraine-for-3-6-bln-to-reduce-dependence-on-russian-gas/

As someone on Reddit put it:



> Pretty major move if you ask me. And one that may pave the road towards a more peaceful future. Russia don't have to worry about Ukraine not paying for the gas, Ukraine gets an opportunity to build peaceful ties towards east and China builds goodwill. Its a win win win for all.


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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

SOVIET RUSSIA NOW ANGRY WITH CHINA THOSE NAZIS


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

China will sell to whoever wants to buy and politically wants to stand alone (which makes since do to how often they have been occupied by their "allies")

Russia was foolish if they thought their oil deal with China was some type of "alliance"


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

Uh ,,,, I'm sure there is something more besides "good will" on the part of China, obviously it must be an investment of some sort.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Russia gets payment for its natural gas shipments, while Ukraine falls deeper into debt. Why should Russia be pissed off at China??? They are paying the deadbeat Kiev junta's gas bill! If anything, Russia gave China its blessing to loan the junta the money. 

But, what the hell, it's just another *$3.6 billion *debt. When the IMF gets through with them on the latest loan deal the junta will owe those legal loan sharks over $*20 billion* plus interest.

Add that *$20 billion *to the *$10.6 billion *the IMF loaned Yushchenko's government in *2008* and you have Ukraine totally sucked into the IMF's vortex and Fucked with a capital "F."

The question is, where does all this money go??? Yushchenko and Tymoshenko didn't pay Ukraine's bills and the Kiev junta certainly doesn't pay its bills unless forced to. 

And, while we're at it, where did all the Ukrainian physical gold reserves go??? The other day the head of the Ukrainian National Bank confessed that Ukraine has almost zero physical gold left and she has no idea where it went to.

Meanwhile, the Ukrainian people are losing their jobs, social services have collapsed, the Gryvnia is collapsing, and the economy is teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. Well, at least Poroshenko, Kolomoisky, and the other oligarchs are living well and, more than likely, moving their assets out of Ukraine to safe havens in the countries of their masters. 

How's the American made Maidan Revolution going??? 
*GLORY TO UKRAINE, GLORY!* :lol 

- Mike


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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

is this guy really laughing at the ukraine economy when the russian one is in the shitter too?


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Video alleging to depict the separatists offering surrendering Ukrainian troops cover fire to protect them from certain death from Barrier Squads is below

(NSFW)

http://www.bestgore.com/murder/ukra...r-squad-separatist-provide-cover-run-to-them/


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_It's not hard to figure out why pig Poroshenko wanted a cease fire. The Kiev junta invasion force has been getting its ass kicked on all fronts and suffered massive casualties over the last month. 

With the thieving leaders stealing the collapsing Ukrainian economy blind and the body bags with Kiev junta troops piling up, even with the backing of its American patrons the regime in Kiev does not look long for this world!

Hang in there boys, Washington is ready to fight to the death of the last Ukrainian! 
*GLORY TO UKRAINE, GLORY*_*!* :lol 

KIEV JUNTA LOSSES OVER THE LAST MONTH WERE SHOCKING










The DNR Minoborony released data on junta losses on all sectors in the DNR and LNR in the period from *12 January to 20 February 2015*. Their figures show that junta forces had *10,940 wounded and killed (4,110 killed) *and the VSN took *1,178 junta POWs.* Material losses were also high:

•299 tanks (28 captured intact)
•38 self-propelled artillery systems (13 captured intact)
•4 2S7 Pion 20.3-cm self-propelled guns (3 captured intact)
•3 2S3 Akatsiya 15.2-cm self-propelled howitzers
•3 2S7 Gvozdika 12.2-cm self-propelled howitzers
•151 MICV (33 captured intact)
•115 APC (30 captured intact)
•24 BM-21 Grad 12.2-cm/40 MLRS (15 captured intact)
•1 BM-30 Smerch 30-cm/12 MLRS
•205 towed artillery pieces
•36 120-mm mortar mortars
•16 ZSU-23-2 2.3-cm self-propelled AA guns (captured intact)
•6 MT-LB armoured GP armoured vehicles
•2 BRDM armoured cars
•4 BMD airborne MICV
•290 admin vehicles (145 captured)

In addition, the VSN destroyed *three Su-25 attack aircraft, 1 helicopter, and 4 UAVs*. The VSN also shot down 3 Tochka-U tactical SRBMs. According to the latest information, junta forces abandoned latest-model American radars. It wasn’t even unpacked… it was still in its shipping crates.

22 February 2015

Antifascist

http://antifashist.com/item/poteri-karatelej-pod-debalcevo-porazhayut-voobrazhenie.html


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

GOD said:


> is this guy really laughing at the ukraine economy when the russian one is in the shitter too?


He knows he'll just get destroyed for a millionth time, so he just ignores it and expects that our attention span is sgorter than that of a goldfish. Kind of like WWE thinks of their fans. 'Rusev is from Bulgaria? Forget that, now he's Russian'.


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Punkhead said:


> He knows he'll just get destroyed for a millionth time, so he just ignores it and expects that our attention span is sgorter than that of a goldfish. Kind of like WWE thinks of their fans. 'Rusev is from Bulgaria? Forget that, now he's Russian'.


Even though he clearly has a tattoo of Bulgaria on his arm :lmao


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_The deadbeat Kiev junta is again trying to get out of paying for what it buys. Despite infusions of capital from IMF loans and American taxpayer financial aid, the stiffs who run the Kiev junta are trying to get out of paying for the gas they ordered from Russia.

It's just a thought but, perhaps Poroshenko, Yatseniuk, and their cronies should steal less and pay some of their bills. Halting the invasion of the east and letting Donbas go its own way would also save some bucks.

- Mike_ 
No Deal: Gazprom Refuses to Supply Gas Until Ukraine Actually Pays For It

Europe
11:12 24.02.2015(updated 14:40 24.02.2015) 

*Gazprom CEO Alexei Miller said Tuesday that Ukraine’s request for 114 million cubic meters of gas to be delivered in two days would lead to full shutdown of fuel deliveries if the payment is not received*

MOSCOW (Sputnik) – Ukraine's tardiness in making its prepayment for Russian gas deliveries could lead to a full shutdown within two days and threaten the transit delivery of fuel to European consumers, Gazprom CEO Alexei Miller said Tuesday.

"Ukraine has not made its gas prepayment on time. As of today, there is only 219 million cubic meters of gas paid for. It takes about two days for [Ukraine's] Naftogaz to transfer funds to [Russia's] Gazprom," Miller said...
*Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150224/1018669186.html*


_While the Ukrainian economy teeters prior to falling into an economic abyss, Russia has been forced to tighten its belt and ride out a recession that the European Commission sees ending and stabilizing in 2016.

*There is a big difference between recession in Russia and impending economic collapse in Ukraine*. 

With oil prices on the rise again cash is starting to flow back into the Russian economy. The sanctions hurt, but not nearly as much as the artificial drop in oil prices that was caused by OPEC's massive over production. I suspect that the aforementioned over production of oil was tacitly approved by Washington as an anti-Russian tactic until it started hurting U.S. oil interests. 

The two painful lessons Russia has learned from all this is to start diversifying the economy, and, more importantly, do *NOT* trust the West and cultivate economic partners in other areas of the world.

Mike_ 

Russian economy will stabilize in 2016 – European Commission

Published time: February 05, 2015 15:17

*Though recession-bound for 2015, Russia’s economy will stabilize in 2016, according to the European Commission*.

“After experiencing some growth resilience in 2014, Russia is expected to move into a deep recession in 2015, followed by some stabilization in 2016, as geo-political tensions are assumed to gradually subside and the oil price to slightly pick up,” the EC said in its Winter Economic Forecast, published February 5. 

*The slowdown in 2015 will mostly be due to weak oil prices*, sanctions, as well as more fundamental economic problems such as the country’s over-dependence on oil and gas exports, and the collapse of investment...
*Read more: http://rt.com/business/229639-russia-growth-2016-stabilize/*


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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

of course RT will say the russian economy will stabilize. 












i think theyll be hit with more sanctions.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Actually, RT is reporting on and quoting the opinion of the *EUROPEAN COMMISSION* regarding the stabilization of the Russian economy in 2016.

If the oil price continues to rise Russia will be able to weather any sanctions which will wind up hurting the EU as much, if not more, than Russia. Many European countries are already whining and regreting being talked into anti-Russian sanctions by Washington who is ready to economically battle Russia to the last *EURO*! 

Russia added another *9.4 metric tons of gold *to its reserves in the summer of *2014* raising its gold reserves to *3 times *what they were in *2005*. Meanwhile, the head of Ukraine's National Bank woke up last week and discovered that Ukraine's gold reserves were near *ZERO*! It would seem that Poroshenko, Yatseniuk & Company got there first and shipped everything to their numbered accounts in Switzerland.

Russia has a rough ride ahead, but will come out of it with new perspectives and new economic partners such as China who has already signed *TWO* gas deals worth about *$400 billion each *(*$800 BILLION TOTAL*).

If it is lucky Ukraine will get another IMF loan to pay for its natural gas before it falls into the economic abyss that the West has prepared for it. 


- Mike


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

Not a big fan of McCain, but there appears to be some truth in his statement that "Russia is a gas station masquerading as a country,”

So Russia isn't going to be doing good until gas prices are again artificially inflated and we can all get raped at the gas pumps again, nice to know.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

China is not a partner nor is it a friend 

China is an opportunist who will sell you random shit 

China will also play up the East vs West tensions to get both sides to stop buying from each other and start buying from them 

China is not stupid, morality and ideology never play into how they do business 

Given a choice between the west, which buys tons of their products and is a regular costumer and will be for decades to come or Russia, which is constantly trying to be self sufficient and isolationist the choice of they will sell to is clear

China is a convenience store, nice but not to be depended on or to be bragged about

The guys sell to broke ass North Korea for god sake


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## WWCturbo (Jun 21, 2012)

This shit's ain't gonna end well for Russia. It never has and Russians tend to be stupid enough to repeat their mistakes unlike the Germans.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

stevefox1200 said:


> China is not a partner nor is it a friend


*But, it certainly is a damn good customer!* In the two recent deals inked back in November of last year China agreed to purchase almost *$800 billion *worth of natural gas from Russia over the next 30 years starting in 2016.

*Europe is not a partner, nor is it a friend.* Once this deal with China gets going next year Russia can stop worrying about the deadbeats in Ukraine and the diktat of the US/EU bloc. China will supplant Western Europe as Russia's biggest natural gas customer. 

Also, since the EU deep sixed the "Southstream" gas pipeline project, Russia will be working with Turkey and Greece to supply gas to the Balkans, Greece, and Turkey. 

As I have said, the economic hardships that Washington and its EU lackies have brought down on Russia now are a *GOOD* thing in the long run. Russia finally realizes that it has no friends in the West - only enemies. And, it is time to develop economic relationships in the east and South America as well as start to diversify the economy.

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

*Russian newspaper leaks Kremlin policy document (from february 2014) on Ukraine takeover*

A Russian newspaper has leaked what it's called a Kremlin policy document that details Russia's takeover of Ukraine.

Novaya Gazeta has leaked the document, which it says was written by policy officials inside the Kremlin in the period between February 4 and 12 - just before the Euromaidan massacre and before the former president fled the country.

*The document lists Russia's takeover of Crimea, the need for a Russian PR campaign to win hearts and minds, and calls for a referendum in eastern Ukraine to give the appearance of legitimacy.*

Unlike much of Russian media which is controlled by the Kremlin, Novaya Gazeta has a reputation for being independent and critical of the Kremlin. *Since 2001 six of its journalists from the newspaper have been murdered.* Last year Novaya Gazeta was targeted by the Kremlin for publishing an expose on Russian soldiers fighting in Ukraine.

Source: http://uatoday.tv/politics/russian-...licy-document-on-ukraine-takeover-411566.html

Original article in Russian: http://www.novayagazeta.ru/politics/67389.html


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

Seems likely that Putin has a few poison darts cued up for Novaya Gazeta staff


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Not to fan flames but the stats on the Wikipedia page of this conflict are hilarious 

The page has all the different numbers reported by every different group for estimated strength and losses which leads to massive differences 

It reminds me of the early battles between the USSR and Japan where both sides claim a near 100:1 kill to death rate


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Hmm...I wonder where a newspaper like Novaya Gazetta got this document. Apparently, it is not in the government's good graces so it would seem doubtful that someone in the Kremlin supplied them with it.

My guess would be this came off the printing presses at Langley.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*CROSS TALK: UKRAINIAN NARRATIVES*

[/


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## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

The racism is strong in this thread


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Ryan193 said:


> The racism is strong in this thread


It would behoove you to elaborate and explain your statement which can be taken a number of different ways. Thanks!

- Mike


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## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Batko10 said:


> It would behoove you to elaborate and explain statement which can be taken a number of different ways. Thanks!
> 
> - Mike


Nah

- Ryan


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

It just came over the newswires that Boris Nemtsov was murdered in Moscow.

For those of you who are only famliar with Nemtsov from the Western media, he was more than just an opponent of Putin. Nemtsov was one of the drunken murderer Boris Yeltsin's cronies and was appointed Deputy Premier by him. He profited from the rape of the country as did the rest of Yeltsin's ratpack during the 1990s after the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

After his boss and patron was forced to leave office under the threat of arrest and prosecution for crimes against the people of Russia, Nemtsov knew he wasn't going to go very far in politics. However, he managed to continue to wheel and deal. He had connections to organized crime as well as legitimate business sources.

There are three scenarios that I can think of surrounding his murder:

1. Mob hit
2. False flag hit by opponents of Putin
3. Putin had him murdered.

Personally, I am inclined to go with door #1 . However, I have little doubt which way the Western media and the Russophobes on this list will go, i.e. door #3 .

- Mike


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## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Rumours suggest he was attacked by an angry Asian hobo.


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## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Just don't question Comrade Vladimir Putin.

Problem solved.


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

Who knows, Putin seems more of a poison dart kinda guy, he obviously has the resources and wherewithal to pull off a far more professional, mysterious hit.
But if it was a professional, mysterious hit that would leave more of his signature on it, so he could have ordered it done gangland style for plausible deniability - And that is my #1 guess.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Ryan193 said:


> Rumours suggest he was attacked by an angry Asian hobo.


I heard it was the ghost of South American dictator Manuel Noriega

Which is interesting because to my knowledge he is still alive


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Opposition leader Nemtsov’s murder caught on CCTV camera (VIDEO)

Published time: February 28, 2015 21:53 
Edited time: February 28, 2015 22:26 

The murder of Boris Nemtsov that took place on a bridge in central Moscow overnight on Friday was caught on an all-weather camera belonging to TVC television. The low-resolution video hints that the killer may have been waiting for Nemtsov at the bridge.

*The camera captured a wide shot of Bolshoy Moskvoretsky Bridge, near the Kremlin, where the crime took place.* The quality of the footage is only good enough to distinguish the cars on the bridge and the figures of people moving along it. 

*According to the video, the politician was gunned down at 23:31 Moscow time by a killer who was allegedly waiting for him on the stairs of the bridge*. 

The murder happened when Nemtsov and his companion – a woman in a white coat, allegedly Ukrainian model Anna Duritskaya – were covered from the camera by a snow-clearing vehicle passing by. 

*The alleged killer then ran towards a car which was stopped on the bridge several meters away. He got into the passenger's seat, and the vehicle drove off.* 

LifeNews also obtained footage showing Nemtsov and Duritskaya arriving separately at GUM department store facing Red Square at around 22:00 MSK. 






At the moment, investigators are looking into five possible motives behind Nemtsov’s assassination. According to Vladimir Markin, spokesman for the Investigative Committee, *the murder could have been a provocation to destabilize the political situation in Russia*. 

*It could also be linked to threats Nemtsov received over his stance on the Charlie Hebdo attack in Paris or the current war in Ukraine. The politician’s business activities and a possible assault related to his personal life are also being looked into*. 

Nemtsov, 55, gained popularity as governor of Nizhny Novgorod region from 1991-1997. He also served as energy minister and deputy prime minister under former President Boris Yeltsin. After 1998 he participated in the creation of several liberal movements and parties, serving as a member of parliament. Since 2012, he had co-chaired the liberal party RPR-PARNAS (Republican Party of Russia – People's Freedom Party), being more involved in business than politics. 

Nemtsov’s murder has been condemned around the globe, with US President Barack Obama, and German Chancellor Angela Merkel urging a thorough investigation of the crime. 

Russian President Vladimir Putin said he will personally oversee the investigation of the assassination, which he called “vile and cynical.” 

http://rt.com/news/236531-nemtsov-murder-cctv-russia/


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Found am interesting article:

Boris Nemtsov: 'I'm afraid Putin will kill me,' Russian opposition politician said weeks before being shot dead

The Russian opposition politician shot dead in Moscow had spoken of his fear that Vladimir Putin would have him killed weeks before his murder.

Speaking to Russia's Sobesednik news website on 10 February, Boris Nemtsov said: "I'm afraid Putin will kill me. I believe that he was the one who unleashed the war in the Ukraine. I couldn't dislike him more."

Friends said he had received anonymous death threats over the internet.

"Boris periodically received anonymous threats on social networking sites...Boris was worried," said opposition politician Ilya Yashin.

"He said he was under threat but never wanted additional security. (He said) if they want to kill (me) they will kill (me).”

More: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...id-weeks-before-being-shot-dead-31029684.html


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Just before the Nemtsov murder *TIME magazine *reported that Putin had an *86% approval rating*. Now, you may not like him, but you have to admit that Putin is not a stupid person. Why would anyone with an 86% approval rating worry about a piece of shit little gnat like Nemtsov, let alone have him murdered???

The goal of Washington and Langley is to destabilize Russia the same way they destabilized Ukraine last year, and myriad other governments over the last two decades since the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Murdering Nemtsov and having the blame fall around Putin even if it can't be proved would be par for the course for Langley.

The Nemtsov murder is not going to "split" Russian society as the Western media is trumpeting. It will give the West ammunition with which to propagandize their own people. However, people who lived under the Yeltsin regime like myself remember the scum like Nemtsov who participated in the rape of Russia during the 1990s. The number of people in Moscow and St. Petersburg who marched for him today may seem impressive, but are not indicative of the opinon of the overwhelming majority of Russian people. 

Nemtsov was always a darling of the West who helped Yeltsin disable Russia and keep it on its knees while lining his own pockets. *Putin is demonized because he raised Russia off its knees where the West likes to see it*.

*CITE: http://time.com/3724564/putin-approval-rating/*

- Mike


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Boris Nemtsov murder: Tens of thousands march in Moscow

ens of thousands of people have marched through central Moscow to honour opposition politician Boris Nemtsov, who was shot dead on Friday.

They carried portraits of Mr Nemtsov and banners saying "I am not afraid".

He had been due to lead an opposition march on Sunday but his killing turned the event into a mourning rally.

Mr Nemtsov's allies have accused the Kremlin of involvement, but President Vladimir Putin condemned the murder as "vile" and vowed to find the killers.

Opposition supporters gathered at a point not far from the Kremlin before marching past the spot on Great Moskvoretsky Bridge where Mr Nemtsov was killed.

Several thousand people have also marched in St Petersburg.









_Written on the poster: Heroes don't die._

More: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31677506

Russian media is under reporting this rally, saying that only a few thousand people took part in this, but the truth is evident. Similar rallies took place i St. Petersburg, Vilnius and Mariupol, to my knowledge.

And again, some thoughts from Reddit:



> As a Russian living in Moscow I am pretty terrified that there will be a "terrorist attack" soon. Our media is now portraying this assassination as a provocation by "parties interested in Russia's destabilization". A good ol' terrorist attack will give Putin an excuse to enshrine his already existing police state into law.
> 
> I hope I can get away from here before it's too late.











_"I'm not afraid."_



> Sounds like important, transforming things, yeah? Tens of thousands at marches across the country, - Moscow, Petersburg, other cities - , placards like "We Will Not Forget, We Will Not Forgive, "Putin, Enough Murders", "War Against Ukraine - Crime and Disgrace of Russia", "We Are Not Afraid", Ukrainian flags, demands to free prisoned Ukrainian pilot Savchenko.
> It's like the big "NO" to all Putin's "84%" claims, but...
> Nothing will change. Ukrainian MP was arrested. Some organizers were arrested. Remaining opposition figures are afraid as f* to call things by their names and they say ridiculous things like: "I don't know who did it and to what purpose, but there clearly will be consequenses" or "I don't think it's Putin, because it's against his interests".
> And the whole thing was physically framed(if you paid close attention) by thin, but tight lines of policemen and fences, who allow to go here, but not here, there, but not there. The highest humiliation by police was to fence the murder scene(already cleaned up, so no evidence protection needed), so protesters had to literally throw their flowers, not carefully lay.
> ...


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Boris Nemtsov murder: Tens of thousands march in Moscow

ens of thousands of people have marched through central Moscow to honour opposition politician Boris Nemtsov, who was shot dead on Friday.

They carried portraits of Mr Nemtsov and banners saying "I am not afraid".

He had been due to lead an opposition march on Sunday but his killing turned the event into a mourning rally.

Mr Nemtsov's allies have accused the Kremlin of involvement, but President Vladimir Putin condemned the murder as "vile" and vowed to find the killers.

Opposition supporters gathered at a point not far from the Kremlin before marching past the spot on Great Moskvoretsky Bridge where Mr Nemtsov was killed.

Several thousand people have also marched in St Petersburg.









_Written on the posters: "Heroes don't die." and "These bullets are for each one of us."_

More: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31677506

Russian media is under reporting this rally, saying that only a few thousand people took part in this, but the truth is evident. Similar rallies took place i St. Petersburg, Vilnius and Mariupol, to my knowledge.

And again, some thoughts from Reddit:



> As a Russian living in Moscow I am pretty terrified that there will be a "terrorist attack" soon. Our media is now portraying this assassination as a provocation by "parties interested in Russia's destabilization". A good ol' terrorist attack will give Putin an excuse to enshrine his already existing police state into law.
> 
> I hope I can get away from here before it's too late.











_"I'm not afraid."_



> Sounds like important, transforming things, yeah? Tens of thousands at marches across the country, - Moscow, Petersburg, other cities - , placards like "We Will Not Forget, We Will Not Forgive, "Putin, Enough Murders", "War Against Ukraine - Crime and Disgrace of Russia", "We Are Not Afraid", Ukrainian flags, demands to free prisoned Ukrainian pilot Savchenko.
> It's like the big "NO" to all Putin's "84%" claims, but...
> Nothing will change. Ukrainian MP was arrested. Some organizers were arrested. Remaining opposition figures are afraid as f* to call things by their names and they say ridiculous things like: "I don't know who did it and to what purpose, but there clearly will be consequenses" or "I don't think it's Putin, because it's against his interests".
> And the whole thing was physically framed(if you paid close attention) by thin, but tight lines of policemen and fences, who allow to go here, but not here, there, but not there. The highest humiliation by police was to fence the murder scene(already cleaned up, so no evidence protection needed), so protesters had to literally throw their flowers, not carefully lay.
> ...


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

"One death is a tragedy. A million is a statistic."

The infamous quote mistakenly attributed by many to Stalin is apropos to Washington's agenda.








[/IMG]


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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

:lmao look at this guy trying to turn the murder of a russian politician into america ignoring whats going on in syria. 

yes thousands are dying in syria. the government is killing tons of people. but wait..who supports this government?

RUSSIA


:lmao sit down fanboy


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

GOD said:


> :lmao look at this guy trying to turn the murder of a russian politician into america ignoring whats going on in syria.
> 
> yes thousands are dying in syria. the government is killing tons of people. but wait..who supports this government?
> 
> ...


:lmao It's amusing how desperate he becomes when he's dead wrong.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_It doesn't surprise me that the people in the West, especially in the US, are totally unaware of what a scumbag Boris Nemtsov was. He was part of Yeltsin's rat pack that raped Russia during the 1990s. When his boss finally stepped down from the presidency under the threat of prosecution for crimes against the Russian people, Nemtsov moved away from politics, but kept on wheeling and dealing. You can be sure that he had major connections in organised crime circles. 

In any case, the 30,000-50,000 that crawled out from under their rocks to mourn this lowlife are just a drop in the bucket. The Russian people across the country know what he really was… a lowlife bloodsucker who lived high while pensioners scavenged in rubbish bins for their next meal. *If I ever go back for a visit, I’ll be sure to take some time out to piss on his grave!*

- Mike_


They Cry About Nemtsov? WHAT ABOUT THE DEAD KIDS?!? 








[/IMG]

"The death of Nemtsov equals the deaths of how many children in the Donbass? We've had enough whining and crying about this punk! Did they cry for the kids killed in the Donbass? Those scumbags supported those shootings! Forgive us for shortening your life. Mr Nemtsov supported those who killed this girl. Hey, McCain, any drop of care about this innocent baby? Or, is this just COLLATERAL DAMAGE? *All of these phonies weep and whine about this scumbag! Who mourns for this child, killed in the Donbass by executioners supported by that bastard Nemtsov?"*

*BMD*

"This girl’s name was Sofiya. They killed her on 27 August 2014 in the Donbass. *Nemtsov supported those who killed her. However, they raise a howl over Nemtsov's death, but the death of this girl went unnoticed*. The question arises… why was Sofiya’s life CHEAPER than Nemtsov's life?"

*Aleksandr Averkov*

"One last thing... the crowd that came out for the Nemtsov march wasn't even one percent of Moscow's population. That's why Putin allowed it... he knows that he has the support of the majority of the people, so, he knows that these loud, posturing, and smarmy scumbags can't hurt him. I say, Expel these bastards to the West, so that they can experience the joys of a Free Market 'recession' at first hand." 

*BMD*


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Video removed and replaced under new title on You Tube.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Thousands in Moscow chant ‘Russia without Putin’

Tens of thousands of Russians marched through central Moscow yesterday (1 March), carrying banners declaring "I am not afraid" and chanting "Russia without Putin" in memory of murdered Kremlin critic Boris Nemtsov.

Families, the old and the young, walked slowly, with many holding portraits of the opposition politician and former Deputy Prime Minister, who was shot dead while walking home from a nearby restaurant on Friday night.

The authorities have suggested that the opposition itself may have been behind his shooting in an attempt to create a martyr and unite the fractured movement.

His supporters have blamed the authorities.

"If we can stop the campaign of hate that's being directed at the opposition, then we have a chance to change Russia. If not, then we face the prospect of mass civil conflict," Gennady Gudkov, an opposition leader, told Reuters.

"The authorities are corrupt and don't allow any threats to them to emerge. Boris was uncomfortable for them."

His murder has divided opinion in a country where for years, following the collapse of the Soviet Union, many yearned for the stability later brought by former KGB agent Vladimir Putin.

More: http://www.euractiv.com/sections/global-europe/thousands-moscow-chant-russia-without-putin-312528


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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

yeah gotta like it when hes wrong he doesnt acknowledge it.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Yeah. Ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away.


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## elhijodelbodallas (Jan 30, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> *If I ever go back for a visit, I’ll be sure to take some time out to piss on his grave!*
> 
> - Mike


:lmao

How is this guy not banned yet?


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

elhijodelbodallas said:


> :lmao
> 
> How is this guy not banned yet?


Because of his superb knowledge of classic wrestling, I suppose. He probably also remembers the carnival days of catch-as-catch-can wrestling.

Anyway, here's this:










Batko in a nutshell (although to some degree this applies to the other side (us) as well).


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

I think peeing on graves is a crime in most places

Vandalism or some such offense

Also dudes girlfriend is telling all the media outlets that she thinks she will be set up as the fall "girl" for it 

Very blunt if it is a political hit, most of the time Putin's critics have "criminal connections" that just happened to be leaked when they are gaining momentum that are worth 20 years in prison and all their money and possessions are repossessed as evidence while the criminals they are connected to are not even investigated

out of sight out of mind


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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

not to mention that these weapons russia supplies the syrian government i am sure have been used in killing the "100,000 syrians" depicted in batkos picture.

does this forum have an ignore list? if it does i think i found my first addition ever.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

CROSS TALK: DANGEROUSLY SPINNING RUSSIA
The Nemtsov Murder


----------



## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

I think Batko is just off balance a bit knowing that there are 10,000's of actual Russians living in Russia who are not nearly so charmed by Putin as he is, give him time he'll rebound.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

This hasn't put me off balance one bit. Now, the Yeltsin takeover put me off balance. Within two years most of my friends, acquaintances, and colleagues saw the light and realized the biggest mistake they ever made was supporting Yeltsin.

Be that as it may, the marchers on Sunday were mostly throwbacks from the Yeltsin era that poured into Moscow from all regions. Even if you accept the organizers' figure of 50,000 that isn't even 1% of the population of Moscow.

Nemtsov's group (I hesitate to call it a party) did *NOT* have even one seat in the Duma. Nemtsov's influence was virtually nil except in the Western media which exagerrated it. 

Rather than Putin ordering a hit on an impotent critic, it would be more likely that Langley figured Nemtsov and his powerless following was worth more in propaganda value dead and made the hit.

- Mike


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

Very possible it was an inside hit, we'll never know.
Nonetheless, 10,000's of people marching against Putin, no matter if they came from all over Russia, is a signal development, I'd sure as hell like to see a march like that against our despot.

If one thing can be said for certain about this Nemtsov guy, is he has got damn good taste in woman, or had I should say - I'm guessing this chick would like to get out of Russia about now. All she needs is some lip balm and she'll be good to go !


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)




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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

GOD said:


> not to mention that these weapons russia supplies the syrian government i am sure have been used in killing the "100,000 syrians" depicted in batkos picture.
> 
> does this forum have an ignore list? if it does i think i found my first addition ever.


Assad protects christians. Seeks moderacy. Russia arms him.
Al Nusra beheads christians, eats the livers of 'heretics'. NATO arms them.

DAMN THOSE RUSSIANS! TEAM NATO FUCK YEAH!


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)




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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

So that Holocaust 

still didn't happen right?


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

The picture conveniently uses numbers from 2013. Try to compare Russian economy from 1999 and 2015.


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

stevefox1200 said:


> So that Holocaust
> 
> still didn't happen right?


Where did the fuel come from to cremate 875,000 corpses at Treblinka?


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

Punkhead said:


> The picture conveniently uses numbers from 2013. Try to compare Russian economy from 1999 and 2015.












I don't think your argument worked out too well. Their economy is only forecasted to contract by about 3% this year. Big deal.

The fact is, Russia did not invade Ukraine, contrary to what western cabbages regurgitate from their commie TV bulletins. If Russia wanted to invade Ukraine, the first thing that would happen would be the shutting down of Ukraines decrepit analogue military communications systems. Formenting confusion in preparation for an almighty blitzkrieg. They would reach and conquer Kiev in a matter of days. Nobody would know what's happening on the ground in Ukraine until it had already happened. That's what happens when you have world-beating jamming technology and encrypted digital military communications - as they US Navy recently found out when Russian fighter bombers penetrated the airspace of their carriers as a warning (ergo, if you go to war with us and not third worlders, kiss goodbye to your carrier fleets).

Russia is entirely within remit to deploy irregulars and special forces in Ukraine to protect ethnic Russians. And if they did 'invade' Ukraine, typical NATO powers would do nothing - they only bomb defenceless shack people.

Second, the idea of a Russian 'economic collapse' is wishful thinking at best. Their economy is actually based on something, as opposed to the US economy which is 15 trillion and rising and based on printing more and more money. Like a bubble that's going to pop at any time. Russia has vast reserves of platinum and gold and is forging new strategical deals with China, India and even Afghanistan.

Meanwhile NATO-tard countries have been paying money for weapons they can't afford to bomb Afghanistan, whilst Putin cuts _business deals_ in Northern Afghanistan. Who is in economic trouble again? Whose the dumbass in that equation? It's not Putin, and that's why idiots like you are being herr derr programmed to hate him.

The new axis of power in the 21st century, both economically and militarily, is the Sino-Russian alliance. Europe can have a piece of the pie too, if they play peaceful ball with Russia. Or they can go down the shitter when the dollar collapses - which _as a maths certainty it will_.

You know what north Americans, with their hydrogen bomb debt clock ridiculing Russia's economy is like? The gangbanger who has bought a Ferrari, who doesn't actually own it, laughing at a normal man who only has a BMW, which he has paid for long since. See who has the last laugh.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

roadkill_ said:


> Where did the fuel come from to cremate 875,000 corpses at Treblinka?


You do realize that the officers who worked at the camp said it happened

Nazi officers admit to doing it 

SS members (Oswald Kaduk,Josef Klehr, Oskar Gröning) have said you have to be stupid to not believe in it 

and here 

"Deniers might have objections against the capacity of corpse disposal and cremation. This is, by part, a consequence of miscalculation. Considering Auschwitz-Birkenau, the first crematory ovens were indeed overburdened, and additional ovens were constructed. The officers had to resort to burning corpses in pits.[75]

Another objection deniers have put forth is that the amount of fuel necessary to cremate that many bodies would have been impractical. In 2000, David Irving sued an author in British high court for libel, for calling him a "Hitler partisan" who manipulated the historical record to deny the reality of the Holocaust. At the widely publicized trial, the prosecuting attorney claimed that it would take mountains of coke to burn all the bodies. An expert witness for the defense countered by showing German patents, issued before the war, for a mass crematorium that could be run almost entirely off the body fat of the corpses disposed in it.

One common objection revisionists hold, is due in part to two facets of the crematoria which were found in Auschwitz. The first of these facets is the curious structure of the crematorium smokestack. They will often argue that it is fake, because it is not directly connected to the ovens by any visible means. However, historical data from Topf and Sons (makers of the crematoria) proves that the design used in Auschwitz (and other camps) was one where the exhaust gasses from the retorts were fed down through the floor and outside to a free standing chimney.

The second objection in regards to the ovens themselves, is more arguing semantics. They often note that the designs used in the camps, in particular Auschwitz, were not crematoriums as might be defined by modern standards; but instead were based off of a large scale hospital incinerator design which Topf and Sons created prior to the war for industrial uses. In this, they are marginally correct that the crematoriums are in truth incinerators, but this does not remove from the discussion that the use of either would have the same results. Historians note that it is easier, both in explaining what Germany was doing during the Holocaust, as well as teaching younger people, to simply call the ovens crematoriums; as stating anything else would only confuse people."

Sauce: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

stevefox1200 said:


> You do realize that the officers who worked at the camp said it happened
> 
> Nazi officers admit to doing it
> 
> SS members (Oswald Kaduk,Josef Klehr, Oskar Gröning) have said you have to be stupid to not believe in it.


Methods of torture used to extract 'confessions' from German labour camp commandants: Crushed testicles, severe beatings, pulled toenails, sleep deprevation, starvation and threats made to families. Auschwitz commandant Rudolf Hoess was brutally tortured before signing an affidat admitting to gassing multiple millions at the camp.



> "Deniers might have objections against the capacity of corpse disposal and cremation. This is, by part, a consequence of miscalculation. Considering Auschwitz-Birkenau, the first crematory ovens were indeed overburdened, and additional ovens were constructed. The officers had to resort to burning corpses in pits.[75]


1) The water table at Auschwitz is around two feet, it was constructed on marshland. It's impossible to burn bodies in pits when the whole that you dig fills up with water
2) The Germans had to resort syphoning fuel out of enemy tanks to stay at war, they did not have petrol to burn, literally. It takes 30 gallons of petrol to burn one corpse



> Another objection deniers have put forth is that the amount of fuel necessary to cremate that many bodies would have been impractical. In 2000, David Irving sued an author in British high court for libel, for calling him a "Hitler partisan" who manipulated the historical record to deny the reality of the Holocaust. At the widely publicized trial, the prosecuting attorney claimed that it would take mountains of coke to burn all the bodies. An expert witness for the defense countered by showing German patents, issued before the war, for a mass crematorium that could be run almost entirely off the body fat of the corpses disposed in it.


1) The amount of coke fuel required to dispose of the number of bodies accrued, allegedly, in 1943, amounts to over 5,000 tons, if we adhere to the laws of physics. That does not take into account other needs such as heating and camp maintenance. Yet delivery records for 1943 show the delivery of only 600 tons.

2) Even if there was enough solid coke fuel, there weren't enough cremation facilities. There were only enough crematoria at Auschwitz to dispose of random bodies - such as the cremation facility that exists at Abu Ghraib. That is why they were there.

The cremation facilities at Auschwitz cannot just burn day and night, with multiple corpses at a time. After around 1,000 cremations they have to be shut down in order to replace the firebrick. And shutting one per set down means shutting the entire set down because they are all connected to one chimney. Firebrick replacement takes at least 48 hours - and this 48 hour work can't begin until the oven cools down. Which requires a 24 hour cooling period.

With the little amount of oven facilities available, even if they had the fuel - which they did not, in order to kill the number of alleged, they'd have to be cremating bodies long after 1945.

Of course, this is before we get to faked photography. Would you like to discuss airbrushed photos of Auschwitz's 'gas chambers'?


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

roadkill_ said:


> Methods of torture used to extract 'confessions' from German labour camp commandants: Crushed testicles, severe beatings, pulled toenails, sleep deprevation, starvation and threats made to families. Auschwitz commandant Rudolf Hoess was brutally tortured before signing an affidat admitting to gassing multiple millions at the camp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oskar Gröning was never trialed or confessed to anything

No one knew of his involvement and he was first charged last year

He came forward (and was charged for it) when one of his friends became a Holocaust denier 

Hans Munch was acquitted of his charges and still showed favor toward Nazism and still admitted it happened


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## Al Borland (Jun 24, 2013)

Russia-backed female rebels pose with the flag of the Donetsk People’s Republic during a beauty contest involving women from the main separatist battalions in Donetsk.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*CROSS TALK: WATCHING RUSSIA*

"The West’s mainstream loves to loathe Russia, anything related to Russia and, of course, Russian President Vladimir Putin. Where do these intense biases come from? And has anyone noticed that bad media coverage in the West only strengthens the resolve of the average Russian at home?" 

CrossTalking with Charles Bausman, Ben Aris and Alexander Mercouris.


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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

as if the russians dont do the same exact things to the americans


:heston


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Of course they don't. Russians are saints and god forbid anyone say anything bad about them because then they'll be called nazis.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

The Russian government is encouraging people to create "patriotic" works (video games, movies, books)

That's why there has been a weird influx of WW2 movies and games from Russia that are almost hilariously over the top but are portrayed as historical (that stupid ass Stalingrad, the game War Thunder portraying Russian armor and planes that a leagues better than everyone else) 

I like men of war but its getting a bit ridiculous now with the all Russian packs

Patriotic works don't tend to hold up well over time, makes your shit looked dated


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Still Think There's No Anti-Russia Agenda on Western TV? Watch This 5-Minute Video

A devastating compilation of the west's lockstep anti-Russia hysteria

Russia's Channel One has somehow managed to perfectly encapsulate everything that is wrong with western media, and in only 5 minutes. Words can't do it justice. Watch this video and any lingering doubts you once had about the anti-Russia agenda in the west will be shattered forever. (Press CC for subtitles.)






http://russia-insider.com/en/2015/03/11/4347


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

You really believe that Nemtsov's murder has nothing to do with politics? :haha

Also, some old drunkard idiot who they claim to be a former CIA agent saying that zero people died in Crimea :maury

And it's funny how everything they say is also applicable to the Russian media.

By the way, John Oliver is hilarious.


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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

whenever batko talks i imagine him being mind controlled by yuri from red alert 2


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The point of the video was the immediate anti-Russian, anti-Putin bias of the western media regarding anything that happens.

As was shown in the video, as soon it was discovered that Nemtsov was killed the western media began accusing Putin without the slightest shred of evidence, let alone even knowing what actually happened since they just heard about the murder and had absolutely no details.

This is the pattern of the Western news media. To go back a bit further to 2008, the same biased reporting with its omissions and obfuscation was evident in the brief Russo-Georgian war. 

For almost an entire week not one western news outlet mentioned the fact that it was Saakashvili, armed with American supplied weapons, who crossed the border into South Ossetia and started the conflict by killing U.N. peacekeepers and civlians. Not one western news source informed the public that Russia responded to Saakashvili's attack and pushed his forces back into Georgia. The western narrative was that Russia conducted an unprovoked invasion of Georgia. 

The rest is history - Saakashvili was driven from office; is on the most wanted list of the Attorney General in his native Georgia; lived in his master's country (U.S.); recently got a job in the U.S. puppet government in Kiev and moved to Ukraine. 

- Mike


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## T'Challa (Aug 12, 2014)

Punkhead said:


> Of course they don't. Russians are saints and god forbid anyone say anything bad about them because then they'll be called nazis.


You mean like saying anything negative about Israel?


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

T'Challa said:


> You mean like saying anything negative about Israel?


John Stewart, Meg Ryan, Dustin Hoffmen, Dwight Howard, Kim Kardashian, Stephen Hawking, and Whoopi Goldberg are all pro-Palestine

I have yet to see any of them called Nazi's or even seen their carrers take a stumble due to thier views

I understand we all want to be martyrs for a cause but some of this "backlash" is damn near imaginary


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_The recent elections in Estonia are a good example of Western democracy in action. Does Washington criticize the disenfranchisement of 25% of the Estonian population? Of course not. It would not fit in with its agenda - the same way pressuring Saudi Arabia for the oppression of women and non-Muslims would be unthinkable.

- Mike 

_
Estonia Government Won Re-Election Because Russian Minority Can't Vote

Tue, Mar 10 

_*Estonia's ruling Reform Party won the election over the Centrist Party favored by the country's ethnic Russian minority by just 16,000 votes. However, nearly 100,000 ethnic Russians in Estonia have no right to vote*
_

_The article originally appeared at German Economic News. Translated by Anita Zalaldinova._

The Government Liberal Party of Estonia won the parliamentary elections with a narrow majority. But victory was possible only because nearly 100,000 ethnic Russians have no right to vote – a clear democratic deficit in the EU country.

The ruling Reform Party received 30 of 101 seats in parliament. It is closely followed by the leftist Centre Party (27 seats), which advocates closer relations with Russia. Traditional voters of the Centre Party, *members of the Russian minority in Estonia, who according to the CIA World Factbook make up 24.8 percent of the residents of Estonia*. Centre Party is followed by the co-ruling Social Democrats with 15 seats.

Nearly 900,000 Estonians were eligible to vote: in absolute terms, 158,977 voters chose the Reform Party. Approximately 16,500 people less – 142,456 voters –voted for the Centre Party, the Estonian Onlinzeitung Delfi reports.

However, there are 91,000 stateless persons in Estonia, that corresponds to approximately 6.8 percent of the population. The vast majority of them are native Russian speakers , who do not have voting rights as owners of ‘grey passports’, reports the Estonian public broadcaster ERR .

The coalition government has lost its absolute majority in Estonia. The liberal Reform Party of Prime Minister Taavi Rõivas and the co-ruling Social Democrats lost seven seats.

In neighbouring Latvia the Russian-speaking minority is also legally largely underprivileged . They also have no right to vote, and they are largely excluded from receiving official status. Services provided by public institutions are limited for them.

This situation is incomprehensible in an EU country. Estonia is the most developed country because they allow e-voting – but the country still has not made an important step towards modern democracy.

http://russia-insider.com/en/2015/03/10/4281


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Estonia was part of the Baltic Way

NOW that is some crazy ass shit

Getting two million people together and form a hand chain through 3 different nations?

impressive

Also to get vetoing tights in Estonia you have to be a citizen, to be a citizen you have to pass a test, to pass the test you need to speak Estonian

does not seem unreasonable

personally I think you should have to be able to speak English to pass a citizen test in the US

The anti-Russia laws in Estonia are hold overs from the end of the Cold War when the USSR begin shipping Russians all over the areas that were starting to break loose. The idea was that they would have a massive voting block that would keep Pro-Russian politicians in power and, at best, prevent them from breaking away from the Union. Most of the new governments saw through this and basically said that anyone who arrived post 1990 would not be counted as citizens till they had passed tests.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

stevefox1200 said:


> The anti-Russia laws in Estonia are hold overs from the end of the Cold War when the USSR begin shipping Russians all over the areas that were starting to break loose. The idea was that they would have a massive voting block that would keep Pro-Russian politicians in power and, at best, prevent them from breaking away from the Union. *Most of the new governments saw through this and basically said that anyone who arrived post 1990 would not be counted as citizens till they had passed tests*.


Most ethnic Russians, Ukrainians, and Byelorussians, i.e. Eastern Slavs, moved to the Baltic SSRs in the early 1950s. The USSR was not shipping people into the Baltic states en masse between 1990 and 1991 just prior to the dissolution of the Soviet Union. (Where were they putting them - in tents???)

The bottom line is that the numbers of Eastern Slavs in Estonia, Lithuania, and Latvia who moved there after 1990 are few. Many Eastern Slavs left the Baltic states after the Soviet Union ended. Logically, if any people were "planted" there between 1990 and 1991 they would be the first to get out. The vast majority of Eastern Slavs have been living in the Baltics for decades and don't know any other place as home.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_Apparently, someone at VOICE OF AMERICA screwed up and made a relatively honest video of what is going on in Mariupol.

Never fear! It seems that the mistake has been rectified and the video pulled from the VOICE OF AMERICA website. Luckily, RT made a copy before the video was removed.

- Mike
_


*VOICE OF AMERICA VIDEO REGARDING KIEV BRUTALITY IN MARIUPOL*





US-Funded Propaganda Channel Admits Reign of Terror in Kiev-Controlled Mariupol

_In what it seems like a paradox, the government-funded Voice of America is doing a better journalist job than "independent and free" russophobic media like CNN, NBC and Fox News.
_
Damir Marinovich

"My sister ran into here (apartment). She can see that our father face had the bruise from this tool. His face had been beaten. It looked like they've beaten his head on the table. The man took him away after beating him."

This is the chilling testimony of Mariupol resident Anna about her father being kidnapped by "unknown men without identification". They've beaten her father and threatened to shoot her. She has no idea where he is now. *"No one is protected and if you criticize the local administration you are considered to be a separatist"* concludes desperate and frightened Anna.

*It is estimated that more than 3,000 Ukrainian citizens are either detained or "mysteriously disappeared" when arrested by the Ukrainian secret service for allegedly being separatist or spying against Ukrainian state.*

In a surprisingly honest video report, State Department-funded Voice of America sheds light on state terror imposed upon Mariupol residents who are mostly pro-Russian...

http://russia-insider.com/en/2015/03/13/4435


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

> US-Funded Propaganda Channel Admits Reign of Terror in Kiev-Controlled Mariupol


WOW. Even US propaganda channels admit stuff they don't like. Something Russian propaganda channels will never do.


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## Muerte al fascismo (Feb 3, 2008)

Not sure if this is CIA-fed lines or a behind the scenes political play by rival politicians, but circulated across a couple of journalist circles, there was a rumor that Putin is being treated for a major ailment. 

I know he has had a wide range of cosmetic surgery, so perhaps it was a bad reaction to his usual treatments.

On the assassination. It is straight from the KGB playbook. Strike fear into dissenters, whilst feeding multiple lines, accusing multiple people, as the real culprits get lost in translation. The key point is how he was planning to release a report which detailed Russian plans to occupy parts of Ukraine, before, not after the current unrest. This eviscerates the Russian defense and puts the ruling party in a position that could bring them down. I'm not just talking domestically, but it could've resulted in a future arrest warrant on Putin's entire clique. In this context political heat from a hit is the lesser of two evils.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Muerte al fascismo said:


> On the assassination. It is straight from the KGB playbook. .


On the other hand, the assassination can also be found in the *CIA "playbook." *

Take a corrupt politician who opposes the government, but does not have even one seat in the Duma, and whose importance is exagerrated in the Western press. Since he is impotent to effect any real change while alive he is murdered so that the Western media will have more ammunition to use in its demonization of Putin and Russia.

This scenario is just as viable as yours.

- Mike


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## Muerte al fascismo (Feb 3, 2008)

Batko10 said:


> On the other hand, the assassination can also be found in the *CIA "playbook." *
> 
> Take a corrupt politician who opposes the government, but does not have even one seat in the Duma, and whose importance is exagerrated in the Western press. Since he is impotent to effect any real change while alive he is murdered so that the Western media will have more ammunition to use in its demonization of Putin and Russia.
> 
> ...


It's viable but also unlikely when you consider a couple of factors. One, why risk exposure and political blowback?
OPEC's flooding the market with cheap energy and the domestic boom has Russia's economy on the back-foot. Politically, Russia is isolated with the West largely united against Putin, whilst China and India both take advantage of the damage in the Russian economy. Cracks are also appearing with the Russian public, Putin-backed oligarchs, the security services, the nationalist radical and Western reformist influenced elements of his party. A CIA hit would unite them all back under Putin's umbrella. The CIA are bold but not stupid. 

More likely, is an attempt by Putin's circle to keep the opposition in line, whilst suppressing the more violent/nationalist elements of the intelligence services. It's the famous strategy of portraying strength when your enemies think you are open to attack. The fact that this individual was planning to blow apart the Ukrainian political narrative just makes his disappearance all the more convenient. He may have lacked political power, but he was notable enough that a Hollywood style hit projects the necessary fear and power that will make serious actors think twice about a potential coup.

Putin's entire image is based around a closed-fist and Tsarist approach to politics. The first time he appears to lighten up, he will be replaced. From a tactical point of view, it makes sense, particularly as the political blow-back will be without teeth.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

[


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Muerte al fascismo said:


> _It's viable but also unlikely when you consider a couple of factors. One, why risk exposure and political blowback?
> _QUOTE]
> 
> That sounds more like a reason for Putin to NOT have Nemtsov assassinated. The CIA and Washington have no fear of any negative political "blowback," nor any kind of exposure. With the Western media demonizing Putin in virtual lockstep, the CIA would not have a thing to worry about. In fact, that was proven by the Western news media immediately and unquestioningly pouncing on the story with headlines trumpeting Putin's "guilt" in the murder.
> ...


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_If you read between the lines of the anger expressed by the Ukrainian Army regulars at Poroshenko and the Kiev junta in the video below an interesting question arises. Why are Poroshenko and his cronies in Kiev building up the strength of its newly formed National Guard whose members are overwhelmingly Western Ukrainians with neo-Nazi leanings? Why are they supplying the independent einsatzgruppen neo-Nazi punitive battalions such as Aidar, Azov, and Donbas with weapons and equipment and ignoring the needs of the Ukrainian Army regular troops??

My guess would be that Washington's puppets in Kiev are getting their hard core ultra-nationalists ready to defend them if the people rise up in a second Maidan! The Western press and some of our list members have alluded to a possible coup or some sort of power grab in Russia. I believe that a more likely scenario is an open revolt in Ukraine against the Kiev junta and its masters in Washington.

The Hryvnia has collapsed; there is no food in the stores, even in Kiev; utility prices are being raised through the roof; the national gold reserves have mysteriously disappeared; the country is on the verge of bankruptcy; Poroshenko is earmarking IMF loans for the purchase of weapons, not repairing the economy; hundreds of thousands are dodging the draft across Ukraine - many fleeing to Russia and Hungary; the Ukrainian Army regulars are on the verge of mutiny...

Of course, you can just read the Western press to avoid being shocked by the real results of the U.S. backed revolution last year.

- Mike _

*"THE WORST ENEMY OF THE UKRAINIAN SOLDIER: THE ASSHOLES IN KIEV WHO SENT US HERE TO DIE!"*


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)




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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

ANNUAL RIGA MARCH HONORS LATVIAN WAFFEN SS MURDERERS

There is really nothing new here. Up to 1,500 Latvians marched in Riga in honor of their veterans who served the Nazis in the Waffen SS, i.e. Latvian Legion, during WW II. They've been expressing their support for Nazism with these marches since 1991.

The annual event was attended by the few remaining Latvian Waffen SS vets who, I am sure, are happy to see that their fellow Nazis took power in Ukraine. 

- Mike

THEN:
*Latvian Legion Marches in Riga 1942*









NOW
*Vets of the Waffen SS, i.e. Latvian Legion, are honored in Riga yesterday*


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*Over 100,000 people rallied in Moscow today in honor of the reunificiation of Crimea with Russia.

The message to Washington, Brussels, and NATO is pretty simple:
*
WANT SOME? COME GET SOME!

*The Russian people are ready for you and will fight.*

- Mike




100,000 gather in central Moscow to celebrate Crimea reunification

Published time: March 18, 2015 18:00 
Edited time: March 18, 2015 19:37 










Some 100,000 people, according to police estimates, gathered near Red Square in Moscow on Wednesday to celebrate the anniversary of Crimea's reunification with Russia. President Putin joined the event and sang the Russian national anthem on stage.

The gala show, titled "We are together", included a rally and a concert. It was organized by Moscow City Hall. Marking a year since Crimea joined Russia, the rally was attended by over 100,000 participants, RIA Novosti reported. 










People carrying various hand-made posters gathered at the city's famous landmark, Vasilievsky Spusk, near the Kremlin walls. A range of Russian singers performed on stage in front of the huge audience. 

President Vladimir Putin attended the rally, and appeared on stage to personally congratulate everyone gathered to mark the occasion. 










"A year ago, the Russian people demonstrated amazing equanimity and patriotism in supporting the people of Crimea and Sevastopol in returning to their native land. We, all together, then realized and felt with our hearts and minds how important the link of history and generations is," Putin said, adding that such historical and "spiritual" connections make people a united nation. 










Citizens in Crimea and Sevastopol, a city with a special status on the peninsula, voted for independence from Ukraine at a March 16 referendum in 2014. With the region being home to an ethnic majority of Russians, 97 percent of the population (1.2 million people) refused to recognize Ukraine's new government, which came to power after the Maidan protests, and voted for reunification with Russia.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*CROSS TALK: "UKRAINE'S DELICATE BALANCE"*






Victoria Nuland Talks Nonsense and Plans for War

13:49 13.03.2015(updated 13:58 13.03.2015) 

Alexander Mercouris

_*While Nuland describes Crimea and eastern Ukraine as in the grip of a “Reign of Terror”, over 90 percent Crimeans support unification with Russia. The fact Nuland is prepared to depart so far from reality when discussing Ukraine is dangerous rather than funny.
*_

In comments to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Nuland describes Crimea and eastern Ukraine as in the grip of a "Reign of Terror". In Crimea "Crimean Tatars, Ukrainians who refuse to surrender their passports, gays and lesbians, journalists and others" experience violation of their human rights as "the norm, not the exception". In eastern Ukraine "Russia and its separatist puppets" have "unleashed unspeakable violence and pillage".

The blame for all this horror rests squarely with Moscow, which has "manufactured a conflict fuelled by Russian tanks and heavy weapons; financed by Russian taxpayers" to which the Kremlin has sent "hundreds and hundreds of young Russians to fight and die".

Meanwhile, as Crimea and eastern Ukraine groan under "illegal occupation" and "terror", "Ukraine is building a peaceful, democratic, independent nation across 93 percent of its territory".

Anyone who believes this fantasy must however explain certain facts.

It turns out that far from feeling oppressed by "illegal occupation" and "terror", over 90 percent Crimeans support unification with Russia (see here and here). This contrasts with reports of growing discontent in "peaceful, democratic, independent Ukraine". Meanwhile the German government and intelligence service can find no trace of the vast Russian army in eastern Ukraine or on Ukraine's border Nuland talks about.

While Nuland sees things that are not there, she cannot see things that are.

She does not notice that the removal from office of President Yanukovych *was unconstitutional and violent*. *She does not see the fascist and neo-Nazi groups and militias *that scar Ukraine's political life. The words "Right Sector" do not pass her lips.She is oblivious to the *withdrawal of accreditation to Russian journalists, of Ukraine's banning of Russian and dissident Ukrainian media and of the deaths of Russian journalists*. She does not observe how despite repeated promises *the Ukrainian government's refuses to negotiate a constitutional settlement with the people of eastern Ukraine. She is not aware of Ukraine's military offensive against the Donbas,* launched in July as the Ukrainian government's foreign minister signed in Berlin a call for an unconditional ceasefire.

As for the shelling of Ukraine's eastern cities, the bombing of Donetsk and Luhansk, the fire and murder of protesters in the trade union building in Odessa, the economic blockade imposed by Kiev on dissident regions, the assaults on dissident politicians, and the humanitarian crisis caused by Kiev's actions,* if one takes one's news from Nuland one would know nothing of them.
*
It is not that Nuland does not know these things or that she really believes the fantasies she is peddling. Rather she is, as the German government according to Der Spiegel believes, one amongst several ideological hardliners within NATO and the US who are unhappy with the Minsk peace process and who are looking for ways to wreck it so that the war in Ukraine can restart with Ukraine armed with US weapons. *In order to achieve this objective Nuland and her co-conspirator NATO General Breedlove are prepared to say whatever they deem necessary regardless of truth*. It is an attitude which Der Spiegel says has officials in Germany's Chancellery "shaking their heads" in dismay.

The fact Nuland is prepared to depart so far from reality when discussing Ukraine is dangerous rather than funny. It does not merely risk the West's credibility as the German government supposedly thinks. *Rather, it is a sign of how far Western hardliners like Nuland are prepared to go to get the anti-Russian war in Europe that they want.
*


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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

ANYONE THAT OPPOSES THE RUSSIA ARE NEO-NAZI


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

You're either with us or you're against us a nazi.


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## CJ (Jun 28, 2011)

Punkhead said:


> You're either with us or you're against us a nazi.


Yeah it seems like it.


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## Allur (Jan 17, 2012)

'Crimea is Ours'. Who's next? Moscow rally participants want Poland, Finland, Belarus, Ukraine (belsat.eu)



> "Ole-ole-ole! Crimea is ours! Let's go for Poland and Finland!" a lot of people chanted.


lol


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Finland is a little tricky 

I tried playing some hearts of iron recently and had more trouble with it than the USSR

Supply lines are for pussies

Also extreme nationalism is a HUGE turn off for a lot EU nations (something that US innocently keeps annoying them with), cause the last guy who had and rallied the population behind it burned down the place and killed everyone 

this is more a foresight is 20/20 than a hindsight one


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_The general attitude of the Ukrainian people is even worse than this poll indicates since it was not conducted in Donetsk and Lugansk where 17% of the population of the country lives. The responses to the questions in those two regions would have driven Poroshenko's, Yatseniuk's, and the Kiev junta's nationwide ratings even lower. 

- Mike _

Over 50% of Ukrainians fed up with President Poroshenko’s policies – poll

Published time: March 19, 2015 16:17 

"A recent poll by a Ukrainian research group shows how unhappy the country is with their politicians. Only eight percent say the country is going in the right direction, while *almost two-thirds assert they don’t approve of the president’s actions..."*

"...Just a third of those asked believe he is doing a good job, while almost *60 percent say they aren’t happy with the way the billionaire is running the country*. If elections were carried out today, *just under 20 percent of Ukrainians would back Poroshenko*, while *30 percent would either vote against every candidate or not bother going to the polls..."*

"...However, Poroshenko seems to be getting off lightly. Ukraine’s nationalist Prime Minister Arseny Yatsenyuk is even less popular with *less than a quarter of those surveyed believing he is doing a good job in helping to run the country...*"

"...almost *60 percent not believing the stories published and broadcast by the Ukrainian press (about thousands of Russian troops in Donbas)*..."

"...a meager eight percent say they are happy with the direction their country is taking and only five percent say Ukraine is politically stable..."



READ MORE: http://rt.com/news/242285-ukraine-poll-poroshenko-policy/


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_Even the Russophobic western media can no longer pretend that Crimeans were forced into reunification with Russia and are dissatisfied with their situation. 

Victoria Nuland's lies and Jen Psaki's incoherent babbling about Crimea are contradicted by polls conducted by western agencies.

- Mike
_

*FORBES*

3/20/2015 @ 10:03PM 25 861 views 

One Year After Russia Annexed Crimea, Locals Prefer Moscow To Kiev

by *Kenneth Rapoza*

The U.S and European Union may want to save Crimeans from themselves. *But the Crimeans are happy right where they are.
*
One year after the annexation of the Ukrainian peninsula in the Black Sea, *poll after poll shows that the locals there — be they Ukrainians, ethnic Russians or Tartars are all in agreement: life with Russia is better than life with Ukraine*.

Little has changed over the last 12 months. Despite huge efforts on the part of Kiev, Brussels, Washington and the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe,* the bulk of humanity living on the Black Sea peninsula believe the referendum to secede from Ukraine was legit.* At some point, the West will have to recognize Crimea’s right to self rule. Unless we are all to believe that the locals polled by Gallup and GfK were done so with FSB bogey men standing by with guns in their hands.

In June 2014, a Gallup poll with the Broadcasting Board of Governors asked Crimeans if the results in the March 16, 2014 referendum to secede reflected the views of the people. A total of *82.8% of Crimeans said yes*. When broken down by ethnicity, 93.6% of ethnic Russians said they believed the vote to secede was legitimate, while 68.4% of Ukrainians felt so. Moreover, when asked if joining Russia will ultimately make life better for them and their family, 73.9% said yes while 5.5% said no.

In February 2015, a poll by German polling firm GfK revealed that attitudes have not changed. When asked “Do you endorse Russia’s annexation of Crimea?”, a total of *82% of the respondents answered “yes, definitely,” and another 11% answered “yes, for the most part*.” Only 2% said they didn’t know, and another *2% said no*. Three percent did not specify their position.

With two studies out of the way, *both Western-based*, it seems without question that the vast majority of Crimeans do not feel they were duped into voting for annexation, and that life with Russia will be better for them and their families than life with Ukraine. A year ago this week, 83% of Crimeans went to the polling stations and almost 97% expressed support for reunification with their former Soviet parent. The majority of people living on the peninsula are ethnic Russians.

The U.S. made a big deal about ethnic minorities there known as the Tartars, which account for around 10% of the population. *Of the 4% total that said they did not endorse Russia’s annexation, *the vast majority — 55% — said that they feel that way because they believe it should have been allowed by Kiev in accordance with international law. Another 24% said the referendum vote was “held under pressure”, which likely means political or military threats to vote and vote in favor.

The GfK survey also asked if the Ukrainian media have given Crimea a fair assessment. *Only 1% said that the Ukrainian media “provides entirely truthful information” and only 4% said it was “more often truthful than deceitful.”
*
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapo...-annexed-crimea-locals-prefer-moscow-to-kiev/


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_The people are starving while the oligarchs are openly fighting among themselves over what's left of the fast dwindling Ukrainian economic pie.

Oligarch Igor Kolomoisky was appointed by oligarch pig Poroshenko to govern the Dnepropetrovsk region and created a private army to quickly squash any dissent against the Kiev junta. 

Now Kolomoisky is using that army to battle his fellow oligarchs in what appears to be the beginning of a power struggle that very well may mark the beginning of the end of the Kiev junta. - Mike_

‘24 hours to disarm’: Kiev on verge of violence as oil dispute between govt, oligarch escalates

Published time: March 23, 2015 16:47 
Edited time: March 23, 2015 23:10 









_*IGOR KOLOMOISKY - oligarch and wanted criminal.
"Warrior, take a look!"
"Who controls you like a puppet?"
"For whom are you going to a sure death?"
"Really, you didn't recognize this up until now?"
*_
The Ukrainian government has given the private army of billionaire Dnepropetrovsk governor Igor Kolomoysky a day to lay down their weapons, after they occupied and erected a fence around the headquarters of the national oil company.

“We won’t have armed personal security forces of businessmen and politicians on the streets of our cities. This applies to every single one of them,” Interior Minister Arsen Avakov said on his Facebook page. 

“All security forces have 24 hours to comply with the letter of the law.” 

President Petro Poroshenko has also dispatched two battalions of the elite National Guard to Dnepropetrovsk, to diffuse “rising tension in the region.” 

“There will be no more pocket armies for each governor. Any regional armed forces must fall in with the national military hierarchy,” the president warned. 

Arriving in unmarked armored trucks, dozens of camouflaged men barricaded themselves in the head office of majority state-owned oil producer Ukrnafta in central Kiev on Sunday afternoon. Kolomoysky, whose net worth is estimated at $1.3 billion by Forbes but may be much greater, according to local sources, was inside, issuing orders to build an impromptu barrier around the office. The government says no permit has been issued to allow this...

*REA**D MORE: * http://rt.com/news/243313-ukrnafta-kolomoysky-poroshenko-barricade/


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_It would be laughable if it wasn't so tragic. The western backed pigs like oligarchs Poroshenko and Kolomoisky fill their pockets and their bellies while working class people are not paid their meager wages and can't feed their families.

The Poroshenkos, Kolomoiskys, and Yatseniuks are the sacks of shit that the West and the Russophobe clique on WF support. Their days are numbered!

This week 10,000 miners went on strike in the heartland of the Kiev junta's support - Western Ukraine! Hard working miners have not been paid their wages for two months! And, the state mining officials don't know when those back wages will be paid!!!

My guess is only after they hang Poroshenko, Kolomoisky, Yatseniuk and the rest of the Kiev junta by their balls on the Maidan and take back the country from Washington and Brussels!

- Mike 

_
Some 10,000 miners go on strike in western Ukraine

World 
March 24, 21:03 UTC+3 










_*Miners demand resignation of Ukraine's energy and coal industry minister and full repayment of wage arrears for January and February*_ 

KIEV, March 24. /TASS/. Some 10,000 miners are taking part in a protest rally in the city of Chervonohrad in western Ukraine’s Lviv Region, *all seven mines of the Lvovugol enterprise have been shut down, the Confederation of Free Trade Unions (CFTU) of Ukraine reported Tuesday.
*
"Ten thousand miners have stopped work and entered a new phase of an early strike. They are demanding that closure of mines be stopped, and are insisting on the resignation of Energy and Coal Industry Minister [Vladimir] Demchishin," chairman of the Independent Trade Union of Ukraine’s Miners Mikhail Volynets said.

Miners are holding posters where their key demands are written: resignation of [Energy and Coal Industry Minister] Demchishin and *full repayment of wage arrears for January and February [as of March 24, only 10 million hryvnias out of 95 million have been paid].*

Otherwise, miners said they would block an international highway.

Earlier Tuesday, miners held a rally in the town of Dmitrov in the Lviv Region. On Monday, miners held a rally in front of the Lvov administration building. A few hundred miners demanded that wage arrears for January-February be paid to them.

Earlier, miners organizations held a number of protest rallies in front of the presidential administration, the cabinet of ministers and the Verkhovna Rada, Ukraine’s unicameral parliament, in Kiev.

*Miners demanded that wage arrears be repaid to them and amendments be introduced into the law "on Ukraine’s state budget for 2015," to stipulate expenditures for stable work and development of the coal industry, labor protection and wages for miners.
*


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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

i love how everyone from the west are neo-nazis or pigs etc. youre really fucking pathetic batko. this thread fucking sucks dick because of your bullshit russian propaganda.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Poor Brussels

I hear its very nice there 

I once entered a contest where I could win a trip to go there 

got T-shirt instead 

and got calls from telemarketers for 6 months 

that's the real prize


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

*Haven't seen this posted here for some reason :hmm, but here it goes. Russia's billionaire president just bought two private jets for himself.*

Vladimir Putin splashes £100million on two luxury private jets










ladimir Putin has splashed out more than £100million on two new luxury private jets as his country remains on the brink of an economic disaster.

Photos of the planes were leaked online, showing lavish white leather chairs, gold covered trims, king size beds, kitchens and conference rooms, not to mention a plush gym - all as a part of the Russian president's gift to himself.

The walls of each are decorated with precious paintings and although both planes aren’t ready yet, they are expected to be delivered by the end of this year.

The lavish purchases come as Russia spirals into debt as it struggles to cope with sanctions following the country’s support of rebel-backed separatists in Ukraine.

Full gallery and more info is inside: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/pictured-vladimir-putin-splashes-100million-5400336


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## Café de René (Sep 27, 2011)

*Russia Rebounds, Despite Sanctions*

Sanctions meant to punish Russia for snatching Crimea from Ukraine one year ago were supposed to hurt Russian business. And they did. Russian stocks, bonds and commodities had the worst performance in 2014 of those in any emerging market.

That was then. Now the picture is changing, with investors starting to favor Russia in 2015. The ruble, which became the world's most volatile currency last year after President Vladimir Putin's land grab, is stabilizing. The swings in its value narrowed this year more than any of the other 30 most-traded currencies.










Investors in Russian government securities denominated in rubles have earned the equivalent of 7 cents on the dollar so far this year, as measured by the Bloomberg Russia Local Sovereign Bond Index. In contrast, anyone holding similar government debt in emerging markets across-the-board has lost 1.1 percent in 2015.

The picture is even rosier for Russia's corporate bondholders; they've had a 7.3 percent total return in 2015, leading the gains in the index for emerging market corporate bonds compiled by Bloomberg. And while shareholders in the global emerging market stocks measured by the MSCI Emerging Market Index gained 1.7 percent this year, the 50 Russian stocks in the Micex index are up 11.9 percent -- better than the Standard & Poor's 500 or any other North American market.

The ruble's relative value helps explain why there are some signs of confidence in Russia. Although the ruble remains the most volatile of the 31 most-traded currencies this year, its swings are narrowing. This is visible in implied volatility, a measure of traders' bets on how much the currency's value will change day-to-day. After surging in late 2014 amid the widening Ukraine crisis, the ruble now is fluctuating the way it did in 2009.










Business also appears to be on the rebound. Some 78 percent of the Russian companies in the Micex index showed greater annual sales growth than their global peers, even though the shares of these Russian companies lagged behind their international competitors, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. That's consistent with a two-year improvement in the relative value of Russian companies.

One possible reason for the growth? Sanctions. With foreign goods unavailable, Russians had to choose homegrown products and services.

For all the disruption caused by the sanctions, Russian companies represented in the Micex index are more profitable measured by Ebitda margins (earnings before taxes, depreciation and amortization) than the rest of the companies included in the global MSCI Emerging Market Index.

A number of Russian companies are outperforming their global peers. Magnit PJSC, which operates a chain of discount supermarkets with a market capitalization of $16 billion, is one worth noting. The retailer's one-year revenue growth was 31.66 percent, overwhelming the 0.87 percent increase in sales from its global competitors. Novatek OAO, a $22.8 billion independent producer of natural gas in western Siberia, is another. The company saw its sales increase 19.5 percent, compared with 0.76 percent from its global sector. And then there's Rosneft, a $41 billion international brand with production in western Siberia, Sakhalin, the North Caucasus and the Arctic, which reported an 18.26 percent annual sales growth when its international competitors disclosed a revenue increase of just 0.76 percent. By any conventional measure, the shares of these companies are cheap.










Are global investors optimistic about corporate Russia's continued resilience? It seems so. The shares outstanding of the largest U.S.-based exchange traded fund tracking Russian companies -- more than 90 percent of the companies in the ETF are Russian -- surged 5 percent so far this year. At the same time, an ETF that's a proxy for money flows into and out of Russian equity shows a 27 percent increase. Putin's Ukraine adventure has led to instability in the region and frayed relations with the West; what it hasn't destroyed is confidence in corporate Russia.

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-03-20/russia-rebounds-despite-sanctions


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/20/politics/vladimir-putin-kim-jong-un-russia-north-korea/index.html

Russia has become North Korea's new sugar daddy just to annoy the rest of the world

That means another 20 years of Kim threatening nuclear strikes for aid money now that they have a boost to their ego and think they have someone to "protect" them


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

A despicable act by the Montenegro football hooligans. Sadly, it's not the first time football hooligans appear in this thread. I just hope Akinfeev is fine.

*Russia anger after Montenegro Euro 2016 qualifier abandoned*

The European Championship qualifier had been suspended inside the first 30 seconds after Igor Akinfeev was struck by a flare, but another incident late on saw the game called off

The Russia Football Union (RFS) has expressed its anger after the country's Euro 2016 qualifier against Montenegro was abandoned after fans threw objects at the visiting players. 

The match had been suspended inside the first minute when visiting goalkeeper Igor Akinfeev was stretchered off after being hit on the neck by a flare, which came from behind the goal.

Play resumed 20 minutes later but further chaos ensued later in the game. Roman Shirokov saw a controversial penalty saved and after the ball went out for a throw in, fans began to launch missiles onto the pitch.

Players of both sides clashed as the atmosphere intensified, leading to Germany referee Deniz Aytekin suspending the match for a second time and later abandoning it with over 20 minutes still to play.

Russia boss Fabio Capello revealed after the game that his side were left with little choice but to play on after the first interruption.

"Officials told us to continue after first break, so we had to!" he revealed. "The decision to abandon the game after second break was correct."

A spokesman for the RFS said: "We don't understand why the match was continued in the first place because Akinfeev is one of our most important players and his inury could have had a direct effect on the outcome of game."

http://www.goal.com/en/news/7157/eu...tenegro-euro-2016-qualifier-abandoned?ICID=OP


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*CROSS TALK: NGO WARFARE*

Many in the West believe the destiny of the human race is to embrace Western liberal democratic values. This may or may not be true, but it partially explains why Washington and its allies are so willing to overthrow governments around the world – even if they are democratically elected. And the favorite tool is the NGO. CrossTalking with Ken O'Keefe, Joe Lauria, and Richard Weitz. 







*FROM JEN PSAKI'S LUDICROUS BABBLINGS:
"THE UNITED STATES DOES NOT SUPPORT UNCONSTITUTIONAL REGIME CHANGES"
*


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)




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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

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[/IMG]


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_Just when you think that you've seen it all the Kiev junta does something even more assinine!

It is beyond belief that with the Ukrainian economy on the verge of complete collapse Poroshenko and his cronies running Washington's puppet government in Kiev would opt to use EU aid funds to build "*The Great Wall of Ukraine*."

*Even in Kiev the common people are suffering from energy shortages, food shortages, consumer goods shortages, job lay-offs, and the crashing value of the Hryvnia*. Apparently, instead of pouring all the money from the IMF and other Western sources into the revitalization of the economy the Kiev junta is going to use a big portion of it to build a "wall" between Ukraine and Russia!

The absurdity of this has not been lost on the EU leaders who are pissed off at the less than prudent use of the aid they are sending the junta.

Not to worry, guys! The money that Poroshenko and his cronies don't use to build "The Great Wall of Ukraine" or buy weapons *they will steal and send to bank accounts in the West*.

- Mike_

EU Surprised About Kiev Plans to Spend Loan on Border Wall Construction

Europe
18:26 01.04.2015

*In early April, Ukraine plans to start wall building on the border with Russia. Brussels is not delighted about the fact that Kiev will spend a substantial part of the EU aid package for this purpose.*

...The electric fence with barbed wire and mines is expected to have a length of 2,000 kilometers and cost around 100 million euros. The project will be financed mainly by EU taxpayers' money, which, of course, does not make European countries feel very excited about the planned project...

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150401/1020328220.html


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_The article below states the obvious, but is worth posting as a reminder of what has been happening since 1992.

- Mike_

NATO Should Have Been Dissolved at End of Cold War – Jacob Hornberger

19:47 01.04.2015

_*An overgrown US military establishment poses the biggest threat to world peace and American liberty, Jacob G. Hornberger stated, stressing that the NATO alliance should have been dissolved at the end of the Cold War.
*_
Americans have idolized the US' overgrown military establishment, turning a blind eye to the fact that *these people are "ingenious" at creating crises and then "playing the innocent*," economist and president of The Future of Freedom Foundation Jacob G. Hornberger pointed out.

"The fact is that NATO should have been dissolved at the end of the Cold War. It wasn't dissolved for one big reason: *in order to produce endless crises with Russia so that Americans would feel the need to keep their overgrown, Cold War-era, military establishment in existence*," Mr. Hornberger underscored.

While the US warmongers are discussing the possibility of Russia's "aggression" in Eastern Europe, they remain silent on NATO's rapid expansion in the region. Indeed, *NATO "has been absorbing Eastern European countries" since the end of the Cold War, keeping Ukraine in mind as a future NATO foothold on Russia's borders*, the economist emphasized.

Mr. Hornberger stressed that there was never a possibility that Russia would allow the US-led NATO coalition to create a military base on its borders,* just like the American national-security establishment would never permit Pyongyang to establish a military stronghold on Mexico's side of the Rio Grande*. 

However, those who indulge America's military establishment's warmongering, incline to consider Russia the aggressor in the crisis.

"Under what authority is America's overgrown military establishment telling Eastern Europeans that the United States will come to their defense in a war against Russia?" asked Jacob G. Hornberger, stressing that under the US Constitution it has always been the responsibility of Congress "to decide when America goes to war." 

Furthermore, the US military establishment has oddly become the country's "good-will ambassador," parading now around Eastern Europe and showing off their tanks and military equipment.

Mr. Hornberger cited George Washington, the first President of the United States who had repeatedly warned the nation against militarism, saying that "overgrown military establishments are inauspicious to liberty." 

It is the time to review America's founding principles, Jacob G. Hornberger noted, pointing to the fact* the US military elites pose a substantial threat to the country's liberty and democratic processes*.

http://sputniknews.com/analysis/20150401/1020333567.html


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

CRIMEA: THE ROAD TO THE MOTHERLAND

*SUMMARY OF FILM WITH ENGLISH SUBTITLES*






*FULL FILM*


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

I think everybody already knows this, but here it goes:

*The Russian Government Runs a Troll Agency to Flood the Internet With Propaganda*

Here’s one way to win the adoration of the Internet: launch an entire agency dedicated to making you look good.

This, according to a fascinating report in The Guardian, is a method that the pectoral stunt double and Russian President Vladimir Putin has adopted in an attempt to sway the hearts and minds of his countryfolk.

The Kremlin allegedly runs a troll agency in a nondescript building in St. Petersburg, employing hundreds of paid bloggers and commenters to mock Western leaders like President Barack Obama and spread pro-Russian sentiment — especially regarding the country’s ongoing conflict in Ukraine. 

Per the report, which details discussions from two former employees of the agency:

“They painted a picture of a work environment that was humourless and draconian, with fines for being a few minutes late or not reaching the required number of posts each day. Trolls worked in rooms of about 20 people, each controlled by three editors, who would check posts and impose fines if they found the words had been cut and pasted, or were ideologically deviant.”

Workers were reportedly paid about $750 a month under the table. The only contract they signed was a nondisclosure agreement. 

Typically, the responsibilities were split into two areas. The first required workers to write a number of harmless articles, typical Internet fodder about famous European monuments or cake recipes. Occasionally, they’d be required to slip in an ideologically directed post — for instance, something arguing that the Kiev government is fascist. 

The other group was directed to flood online forums and comment sections with memes or links that depicted the Russian government as superior and effective. In some cases, commenters even directed their campaigns toward comments sections of CNN, The New York Times, and The Guardian itself. They often drew from an archive of memes that depicted world leaders in photoshopped scenarios with Russian-language speech bubbles.

More: https://www.yahoo.com/tech/the-russian-government-runs-a-troll-agency-to-115389567389.html

The Guardian's report: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/putin-kremlin-inside-russian-troll-house


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Eastern Orthodox Christians Around the World Celebrate Palm Sunday








[/IMG]
_Willow (Palm) Sunday celebrated in the Orthodox Church in Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus_

For Christians worldwide, Palm Sunday marks Jesus Christ's entrance into Jerusalem, when his followers laid palm branches in his path, prior to his crucifixion. In Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus willow branches are used instead of palm fronds, unavailable that far north. In 2015 an estimated 300 million Eastern Orthodox Christians celebrated Palm Sunday on April 5.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_*ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF WESTERN "DEMOCRACY" AND "FREE SPEECH*"_

_The hypocrisy and double standards of the West reared its ugly head again when the Toronto Symphony Orchestra banned Valentina Lisitsa from performing due to her private views on the situation in Ukraine.

Lisitsa has dual Ukrainian/American citizenship and has her residence in the U.S. She is a concert pianist who was playing for the Toronto Symphony Orchestra until she was banned due to her views on the present situation in Ukraine.

None of her negative opinions about the puppet junta in Kiev and its war against the Ukrainian people were ever expressed during a performance. Her personal opinions were expressed on social media when she was away from the symphony and on her own time.

Despite this, the powers that be put pressure on the Toronto Symphony Orchestra and got her banned. *So much for the bullshit about Western democratic values and free speech!
*
- Mike_


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## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

Wow, I thought the other site I was on was bad, but this thread is fucking filled with Russian propaganda. ugh.


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## Shagz (Sep 24, 2014)

Damn European women have nice pussy's.

Big fan of Pizza and Mother Russia.


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## Gandhi (Sep 15, 2012)

Shagz said:


> Damn European women have nice pussy's.
> 
> Big fan of Pizza and Mother Russia.


:lmao


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

This article originally appeared at heise online, a leading alternative German news site. It is interesting not only because it gives a thorough, critical summary of the reality in Ukraine, and how it has been misrepresented in the mainstream media, but also because it is a classic example of the sort of alternative journalism that is taking Germany by storm. 

*It is precisely this sort of article from which most Germans are now getting their news about Ukraine, after the spectacular implosion of the country's mainstream media due to the preposterous propaganda they have been pushing, and continue to push.* It's a foreign policy nightmare for Washington. Basically, they can kiss Germany goodbye as a partner in Europe vis a vis Russia.

Translated for RI by Roman Kut


US-Backed Revolution A Disaster for the Whole Country

•_*One year after Kiev's bloody Maidan, Ukraine has settled into a rut of despair, poverty and continuing bloodshed. Maidanites count the costs of their ambitions and its toll on lives in Ukraine*_

•_*Mainstream media have badly misrepresented the reality of what happened in the Ukraine*_

Stefan Korinth (heise online) German mediawatch 

"...In the memory of the leading media of this country [Germany], however, only a mythical and simplified interpretation has survived: “Maidan was the fight for freedom of the Ukrainians...”

"...This evidence indicates that after just one year the Euro-Maidan can be analyzed quite thoroughly and in a more nuanced way. However, in the leading local media, with its view of Vladimir Putin, only a single mythic image of the Euro-Maidan was cultivated: it was a fight for freedom of the Ukrainian people..."

"...*This simplification is based on two rarely questioned assumptions:* on the one hand, that Ukraine and its residents were less free before Maidan than afterwards; on the other hand, that there is a single Ukrainian people, unified in its political views. ..."

"...*Presently, nobody in Ukraine can guarantee free movement and a free electoral campaign for candidates who don’t follow the patriotic mainstream.* The radicalized and, to some extent, armed parts of Ukrainian society act violently against representatives of other opinions. Defamations such as “agent of the Kremlin”, “separatist”, “collaborator” or “traitor to the Fatherland” and the ensuing arbitrary law are a daily occurrence..."

"...Freedom of the press: After the elections, the newly elected parliament decided to establish a “Ministry of Information...the fact that *virtually all large Ukrainian TV channels and newspapers are owned by the pro-Western oligarchs makes even hopes for “a free press” seem illusionary*..."

"...Freedom to travel: Today, just as before Maidan, the citizens of Ukraine are not permitted to enter the EU without a visa, something numerous west-Ukrainians had particularly hoped for..."

"...As far as economic freedoms are concerned — even after Maidan *such freedoms belong exclusively to the oligarchs *and minions from their inner circle..."

"...The second assumption which goes along with Maidan as “Ukraine’s fight for freedom” is the one about a united Ukrainian people..."Ukrainian society isn’t united but characterized by many cracks and contradictions..."*the Ukrainians are heterogeneous and have diverse local and national identities*, although the country was unified by means of sovietization. Although most of the people who live in Ukraine define themselves as Ukrainians, yet, not all of them speak Ukrainian, and they feel themselves associated with different historical traditions..."

"...In light of the aforementioned considerations, *the description of Euro-Maidan as the freedom fight of a people against a dictator can be labeled only as a (successful) PR-spin*..."

READ THE ENTIRE ENGLISH TRANSLATION OF THE ARTICLE AT:
http://russia-insider.com/en/ukraine-unity-and-fighting-freedom/5345

OR THE ORIGINAL ARTICLE IN GERMAN AT:
http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/44/44359/1.html

Ukraine: Einigkeit und Kampf um Freiheit?

Stefan Korinth 11.03.2015 

Im Gedächtnis der Leitmedien hierzulande hat vom Euro-Maidan nur die simplifizierte Deutung vom Freiheitskampf überlebt. Die Wirklichkeit ist komplizierter

Vor gut einem Jahr erreichte der Euromaidan in Kiew seinen blutigen Höhepunkt. Am Ende waren mehr als 100 Menschen tot und die politische Opposition hatte zusammen mit militanten Radikalen Präsident Viktor Janukowitsch entmachtet. Neben dem Machtwechsel stand der Maidan in den Monaten zuvor auch für zahlreiche weitere bis heute nicht realisierte Forderungen. Im Gedächtnis der Leitmedien hierzulande hat allerdings nur eine mythisch-simplifizierte Deutung überlebt: "Der Maidan war der Freiheitskampf der Ukrainer..."


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Its wrong for "oligarchs" to run your media

Honest nations have their main news source openly run and funded by the government and bring 9/11 truthers and Obama birthers on to do "exposes" 

People are so eager to find an "anti US" nation that they will pick the stupidest and most backwards nations

Look at Russia's "allies", they have fucking North Korea and Iran 

The enemy of your enemy is not your friend


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_On April 7th the *DONETSK PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC *celebrated the first anniversary of "*PROCLAMATION DAY*," i.e. the day the DPR declared independence from the illegal Kiev junta and its puppets controlled from Langley.

After a year of battling the neo-Nazi National Guard, einsatzgruppen punitive battalions such as Azov, and the regular army of the Kiev junta the Donetsk People's Republic has survived and will continue to fight until it drives every American/NATO backed fascist from its land.

*HE WHO COMES TO US WITH THE SWORD BY THE SWORD SHALL HE PERISH*!
*
DEATH TO POROSHENKO AND THE KIEV JUNTA!*

*LONG LIVE FREE UKRAINE!*

- Mike_










CHAIRMAN ZAKHARCHENKO ADDRESSES THE PEOPLE OF THE DONETSK PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC ON PROCLAMATION DAY

Chairman of the DNR Government, A V Zakharchenko, greeted the people of the DNR on the Proclamation Day of the Republic, saying in an address to the nation, 

“My dear compatriots in the Donbass… this holiday is yours! 

During the past year in our country, in our common life, we’ve developed and built a beautiful and fair motherland. Now, we can say with confidence that we’ve held on to our Republic. We went through severe trials and paid a high price for our independence. 

They wanted to force us to our knees, so, they sent punitive gangs into our land to ‘pacify’ the Donbass. However, our people carried out an incredibly heroic feat. When the crazed Kiev politicians went on a rampage against their own people, when their tanks and artillery smashed peaceful towns and villages, our people showed the true nature of the Donbass. In a few days, they raised forces that stopped the Ukrainian drive. 

At that time, the people understood that they could no longer live in a Ukraine where the government steals from its people, where a criminal class of oligarchs dictates the policy, where out-of-control officialdom goes out of its way to humiliate people. We don’t want to live in a country where thieves and corruption thrive. We want to live in a country where the people will thrive! 

*Frankly, this day is our Donetsk Victory Day. To the feast, Donbass!”*


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

HBK 3:16 said:


> Wow, I thought the other site I was on was bad, but this thread is fucking filled with Russian propaganda. ugh.


Yeah, it is too bad that 1 obsessed poster has turned this thread into nothing but a Soviet propaganda repost fest, that is their usual SOP and it wouldn't surprise me a bit if he was on the KGB payroll as a professional internet troll.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_The fascist orientation of Washington's puppet regime in Kiev becomes more blatant every day. After the junta violently overthrew the elected government they reinstated Nazi collaborators Stepan Bandera and Roman Shukhevich as Heroes of Ukraine.

Today the Verkhovna Rada passed legislation that recognizes WW II Nazi collaborators as "freedom fighters." As I reported here in a previous post the two largest political parties in Ukraine, the Communist Party Ukraine and the Party of Regions were banned months ago. So, there was no opposition to the bill and the law passed 270 to 0 with 180 abstentions.

- Mike_


Ukraine Recognizes Ultranationalists as Freedom Fighters

Europe, 15:48, 09.04.2015









_Memorial to WW II Nazi collaborator Stepan Bandera is a rallying point for the neo-fascist regime in Kiev and its Western Ukrainian supporters._

_*The Ukrainian parliament passed a bill recognizing notorious ultranationalist groups, including those active in Ukraine during and after World War II, as fighters for the country's independence in the 20th century.*
_
More than 270 out of 450 members of the Verkhovna Rada voted in favor of the bill. No one voted against it.

Organizations covered by the controversial legislation include the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) and the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN).

*These so-called freedom fighters, in reality radical right-wing groups or revolutionary ultranationalists, have a dark past.* The Ukrainian Insurgent Army is a vivid example.

The UPA was established as the armed wing of the Ukrainian nationalists in 1942. The UPA operated mainly in western Ukraine, fighting against Soviet forces on the side of Nazi Germany. *In 1943, the UPA massacred as many as 100,000 Polish civilians in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia.
*
After the end of World War II, the UPA continued to fight against the Soviet Union using radical means, including terrorism and violence. *The UPA committed countless atrocities, targeting intellectuals and local authorities.
*
War veterans and politicians have sharply criticized the glorification of the UPA and its leaders, Stepan Bandera and Roman Shukhevych, accusing them of collaborating with the Nazis.

In November 2014, Russia's Supreme Court branded the Ukrainian Insurgent Army a terrorist organization, banning its activity in the country.

*READ MORE:* 
http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150409/1020665137.html


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## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

Your article would be nice if the Communist Party and Party of Regions were both actually banned; which they arent :lol


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

If anybody is still thinking about believing any of Old Man Mike's ramblings (or rather blind repostings of the articles written by his masters), here's some history for you guys.

*Ukrainian Insurgent Army: Myths and facts*










On Oct. 14 only a small portion of Ukraine’s population will observe the symbolic founding date of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army. This group of freedom fighters, better known as UPA after their acronym in Ukrainian, first formed in the woods of Volyn and Rivne late in 1942. *They fought to reinstate Ukraine’s independence after the nation was partitioned in the aftermath of World War I.*

Freedom was their ultimate goal, while their immediate goal was to protect the Ukrainian population from *brutal and widespread Nazi and Soviet exploitation and repression*.

While engulfed in an inevitable, hopeless armed struggle against Soviet elite forces, UPA’s leadership on May 30, 1947, dedicated its founding date to coincide with the historic, Ukrainian Cossack holiday of Pokrova.

UPA saw their resistance as a continuation of Ukraine’s centuries-old struggle for independence. That saw its roots as the descendants of Kyivan Rus, the Cossack Hetmanate states, the uprisings by Maksym Zaliznyak and Oleksa Dovbush, to the Ukrainian National Army that won brief independence after World War I. That was followed by the rural uprisings in the 1920s-1930s in the newly formed Soviet Ukraine (mostly resistance to the Bolshevik collectivization of farmland that led Josef Stalin and his henchmen in Ukraine to orchestrate the man-made famine of millions of Ukrainians in the early 1930s).

But there won’t be any victory parades or solemn commemoration for UPA given by official Kyiv – even though the last time I checked, UPA never surrendered or capitulated, unlike the Soviet Union, which fell apart in 1991. I’m not sure there should be parades anyway, but the fact remains, UPA veterans don’t enjoy World War II combatant status in Ukraine.

The reason for the most part is that the Soviet narrative of history still prevails, more than 20 years after independence. Post-Soviet Ukraine still hasn’t confronted its past soberly, and doesn’t want to, it appears.

So year after year, I get to hear rubbish like how Kharkiv was Ukraine’s first capital…or how UPA were nothing but backstabbing, brainwashed, illiterate farmers who betrayed their nation.

Here are some facts to destroy the Soviet myths about UPA. The myths are still perpetuated today by Ukrainophobes who find every reason to undermine Ukraine’s autonomy based on pseudo-scientific research filled with Soviet sources of footnotes and endnotes.

*Notice how the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists hasn’t been mentioned yet. It’s because UPA and OUN – the wing that was led by Stepan Bandera – weren’t one whole entity. Soviet propaganda lumped the two together to discredit both easier.*

Full article: http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/ukrainian-insurgent-army-myths-and-facts-314313.html

It was written in 2012, so some things might be a little outdated, but all in all it is still an interesting and informative piece of writing.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Personally I would pick people who make good statues to be national heroes

I don't care if they were Nazis

I you look good in bronze you look good in bronze


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

stevefox1200 said:


> Personally I would pick people who make good statues to be national heroes
> 
> I don't care if they were Nazis
> 
> I you look good in bronze you look good in bronze


Yeah, only if you read my post above yours, you'll see that he has nothing to do with UPA.

And the way it says how they collaborated with Nazis, but conveniently leaves out the part about how they also fought against Nazis for their own independence. It's not like they just joined Nazis to fight Soviets, as the article paints it. They fought for their independence. They didn't want to be on either side. UPA had to temporarily join one side to help them fight the stronger one, but in fact all they wanted was to go on their own. Only they weren't strong enough to do it.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

HBK 3:16 said:


> Your article would be nice if the Communist Party and Party of Regions were both actually banned; which they arent :lol


The Communist Party Ukraine faction in the Verkhovna Rada was officially dissolved by legislation that came into effect on July 24, 2014. The CPU had won over 2.5 million votes (about 15% of the poll) in the 2012 parliamentary elections.

Kiev junta Parliamentary spokesmen Oleksandr Turchynov on July 23rd announced to the Verkhovna Rada, in substance, "We will only have to tolerate the Communist Party for one more day!"

The Party of Regions was similarly banned from participating in the Verkhovna Rada. Any member that participated in the Party when Yanukovich was president was barred from participating in the Rada. This effectively ended the participation of the Party of Regions in the parliament.

While the two parties technically still exist, they do not have the right to particpate in the official political life of the country.

*WESTERN DEMOCRACY IN ACTION!*

- Mike


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## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> The Communist Party Ukraine faction in the Verkhovna Rada was officially dissolved by legislation that came into effect on July 24, 2014. The CPU had won over 2.5 million votes (about 15% of the poll) in the 2012 parliamentary elections.
> 
> Kiev junta Parliamentary spokesmen Oleksandr Turchynov on July 23rd announced to the Verkhovna Rada, in substance, "We will only have to tolerate the Communist Party for one more day!"
> 
> ...


Yeah, I don't know what RT is telling you, but the Party of Regions was not banned from participating in the Rada, they voluntarily chose not to participate in the 2014 election of their own accord; and many of the party's members still ran and won seats as apart of the Opposition Bloc.

Source: http://sputniknews.com/politics/20140914/192930339.html

The KPU also could have ran candidates; but they chose not too as well.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Punkhead said:


> Yeah, only if you read my post above yours, you'll see that he has nothing to do with UPA.
> 
> And the way it says how they collaborated with Nazis, but conveniently leaves out the part about how they also fought against Nazis for their own independence. It's not like they just joined Nazis to fight Soviets, as the article paints it. They fought for their independence. They didn't want to be on either side. UPA had to temporarily join one side to help them fight the stronger one, but in fact all they wanted was to go on their own. Only they weren't strong enough to do it.


I just be jokin 

Ukraine is a weird place who has always been under someones thumb

Sadly the group that killed them the least was the Nazi's of all people


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

The Germans were just following orders. The Western Ukrainians, Latvians, Lithuanians, and Estonians were just fighting communism. The Vichy French were just biding time and maintaining autonomy. There are myriad excuses for fighting for and collaborating with Hitler’s Nazis. The bottom line is that they are weak justifications for the crimes these people committed.

The facts regarding the Western Ukrainian collaboration with Nazi Germany are as follows:

The *Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists*, headed by *STEPAN BANDERA*, was the political arm that led the *Ukrainian Insurgent Army*.

The Ukrainian Insurgent Army fought against *the Russians and the Poles who were its primary opponents*. While it is true that the Ukrainian Insurgent Army had a falling out with its Nazi allies in the early part of *1943*, they buried the hatchet and fought with them against the Russian and Poles again in *1944*.

Beginning in *March of 1943 *the *Ukrainian Insurgent Army *engaged in the ethnic cleansing of *Volhynia and Galicia murdering 100,000 Poles *and driving out the remainder. The fact that Stepan Bandera was not personally involved in this mass murder is irrelevant. He was a crucial component of the Western Ukrainian nationalist movement and collaboration with the Nazis.

Bandera continued his operations after the Nazi German surrender for a number of years in the form of bandit/terrorist style raids in the Western Ukrainian countryside.

-	Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

HBK 3:16 said:


> Yeah, I don't know what RT is telling you, but the Party of Regions was not banned from participating in the Rada, they voluntarily chose not to participate in the 2014 election of their own accord; and many of the party's members still ran and won seats as apart of the Opposition Bloc.
> 
> Source: http://sputniknews.com/politics/20140914/192930339.html
> 
> The KPU also could have ran candidates; but they chose not too as well.


Of course the Party of Regions didn't run any candidates. Most of those who would have run couldn't because of the ban on anyone who served under Yanukovich. 

Also, the Party was in disarray after a third of its members resigned literally under threats of physical violence by the the Kiev junta's fascist factions. Rather than run the handful of candidates who were eligible, the Party chose not to run anyone. 

The Communist Party Ukraine was totally banned from the Rada and Peter Symonenko, CPU Chairman, was attacked and beaten during his last speech on the podium of the Rada. Due to criticism from some Western European sources the Kiev junta did an about face on the eve of the snap elections and said that the CPU could run candidates. A little bit too late to take seriously.

The CPU and Party of Regions are defacto banned from participation in today's Ukrainian political life.

- Mike


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## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> Of course the Party of Regions didn't run any candidates. Most of those who would have run couldn't because of the ban on anyone who served under Yanukovich.
> 
> Also, the Party was in disarray after a third of its members resigned literally under threats of physical violence by the the Kiev junta's fascist factions. Rather than run the handful of candidates who were eligible, the Party chose not to run anyone.


The Party of Regions was not banned and it's members was not banned, the Party could have ran if it wanted too; but I doubt they would have won considering the party's leaders were responsible for thousands of deaths during Maiden.

Also, Ukraine's government is about as much of a junta or fascist in nature as the United States is; as in is it not. Putin is the fascist in this whole ordeal. But keep eating RT's bullshit propaganda I guess.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Batko10 said:


> The Germans were just following orders. The Western Ukrainians, Latvians, Lithuanians, and Estonians were just fighting communism. The Vichy French were just biding time and maintaining autonomy. There are myriad excuses for fighting for and collaborating with Hitler’s Nazis. The bottom line is that they are weak justifications for the crimes these people committed.
> 
> The facts regarding the Western Ukrainian collaboration with Nazi Germany are as follows:
> 
> ...


I thought the poles were evil douchbags who deserved to be killed and subjugated by the USSR


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

Punkhead said:


> Yeah, only if you read my post above yours, you'll see that he has nothing to do with UPA.
> 
> And the way it says how they collaborated with Nazis, but conveniently leaves out the part about how they also fought against Nazis for their own independence. It's not like they just joined Nazis to fight Soviets, as the article paints it. They fought for their independence. They didn't want to be on either side. UPA had to temporarily join one side to help them fight the stronger one, but in fact all they wanted was to go on their own. Only they weren't strong enough to do it.


I agree.
Ukraine "joined" Nazis about as much as France joined the Nazis. They were invaded, occupied and dominated by a strong, ruthless power, some allowances must be made for their predicament - Although it is fairly safe to dictate from an armchair 70 years later what they should have done.

All invaded countries had factions which cooperated and fought with the Nazis in one degree or another - That includes Ukraine, that includes France, and that includes Russia. Considering the pre war battles against communism, this shouldn't be too surprising.
Nazis were often viewed as the lesser of 2 evils, in in fact in many ways, they were.


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## Café de René (Sep 27, 2011)

HornSnaggle said:


> I agree.
> Ukraine "joined" Nazis about as much as France joined the Nazis. They were invaded, occupied and dominated by a strong, ruthless power, some allowances must be made for their predicament - Although it is fairly safe to dictate from an armchair 70 years later what they should have done.
> 
> All invaded countries had factions which cooperated and fought with the Nazis in one degree or another - That includes Ukraine, that includes France, and that includes Russia. Considering the pre war battles against communism, this shouldn't be too surprising.
> Nazis were often viewed as the lesser of 2 evils, in in fact in many ways, they were.


The difference being that these days we don't celebrate Vichy by doing parades or building statues of its leaders. Actually even people who think that cooperation was the right call or think that marshal Pétain is a national hero would be shocked at the idea of celebrating some of the darkest days in French history.


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## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

Café de René said:


> The difference being that these days we don't celebrate Vichy by doing parades or building statues of its leaders. Actually even people who think that cooperation was the right call or think that marshal Pétain is a national hero would be shocked at the idea of celebrating some of the darkest days in French history.


While Ukraine doesn't have many bright spots in their period to celebrate; cause when you look at their history; it's pretty bad.

Pre-Tsarist - Constant War and Destruction over the lands of Ukraine; only bright spot considered here by many Ukrainians (at least the ones I have talked too over the net) is the Kievan Rus
Tsarists - Oppression, Forced Russification and Murder
1919-1939 Polish Republic - Oppression, Attempted Polonfication.
Czechoslovakia - Oppression
Nazi Germany - Oppression, Murder, Attempted Genocide
Soviets - Oppression, Forced Russi/Sovietfication, Starvation, Murder and Attempted Genocide
Modern Ukraine - Corruption, Oligarch Influence, Russian Invasion, Destruction, Murder; Civil War.


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## HornSnaggle (Oct 24, 2014)

Café de René said:


> The difference being that these days we don't celebrate Vichy by doing parades or building statues of its leaders. Actually even people who think that cooperation was the right call or think that marshal Pétain is a national hero would be shocked at the idea of celebrating some of the darkest days in French history.


More than shocked, I believe they would be thrown in jail in france, the land of thought control.
Anyhow, you cannot directly compare any 2 nations, France & Ukraine no exception. Many Frenchmen collaborated with the Nazis, many willingly joined the SS to fight the Russians. 1,000,000's of French woman willingly had sex with German occupiers, I don't see you in a strong position to cast stones.

Most if not all men they idolize from that era fought both the Russians and Germans, they wanted independence and were forced to make temporary alliances with whoever was occupying them at the time.
In that position you, I and most anyone else would likely do the same.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

HBK 3:16 said:


> The Party of Regions was not banned and it's members was not banned, the Party could have ran if it wanted too; but I doubt they would have won considering the party's leaders were responsible for thousands of deaths during Maiden.
> 
> Also, Ukraine's government is about as much of a junta or fascist in nature as the United States is; as in is it not. Putin is the fascist in this whole ordeal. But keep eating RT's bullshit propaganda I guess.


First of all, there were not "thousands of deaths during Maidan." The confirmed death toll was approximately *100 civilians* and *18 police officers*. There were probably more, but the number is not in the thousands - more likely a few hundred if that.

Secondly, since Obama blurted out an admission to CNN that the U.S. was involved in the Maidan uprising from the beginning, it is highly likely that Langley is responsible for those deaths - both morally and in actuality. The sniper attacks on the demonstrators and police very well could have been orchestrated by a third party interested in fomenting as much violence as possible to bring down Yanukovich.

As I said, the Communist Party Ukraine was *openly banned*. The Party of Regions was *defacto banned* by the Kiev junta's adopted official policy of "*lustration*." Lustration or "cleansing" (from the Latin) was the policy that forbade Party of Regions members who were loyal to Yanukovich from participating in public office.

The lustration laws eliminated a large part of the Party of Regions, including its most highest ranking members. Threats, coercion, and outright violence took care of the rest. In fact, it was a modern day purge that was ignored in the Western press. 

After coming under criticism from a few Western European sources for its open banning of the CPU, the Kiev junta didn't want to risk any criticism for outright banning the Party of Regions. Instead, they adopted the lustration laws which did the trick and did not attract much attention.

The open banning of the CPU, lustration of the members of the Party of Regions, and the systematic persecution and terrorizing of independent politicians removed any opposition to the Kiev junta’s agenda. 

Regarding the fascist nature of the junta now ruling Ukraine, actions speak louder than words. 

-	The Kiev junta takes power by violently overthrowing the *ELECTED* president and trashing the Ukrainian Constitution.

-	Crimea does not recognize the junta and opts to secede and join Russia.

-	Donetsk and Lugansk refuse to recognize the junta and opt to secede and become independent.

-	Other regions that refused to recognize the illegal junta are put down by force. Mobs of Right Sector and Svoboda thugs burn 40 people alive in Odessa to make their point that resistance to the Western Ukrainian led junta is futile.

-	The National Guard is formed to police restive civilian populations and fight pro-independence rebels. 

-	Oligarchs like Kolomoisky are given permission to raise their own mercenary armies.

-	Einsatzgruppen type volunteer punitive battalions like Azov are formed and commit myriad atrocities in the east.

-	The Russian language comes under attack despite it being native to over a third of the population and spoken by over three quarters.

-	Torchlight parades and the restoration of WW II Nazi symbolism appear.

-	Restoration of Nazi collaborators as “Heroes of Ukraine.”

- Snap elections are hastily put together after the CPU is banned and the Party of Regions is defacto disbanded via the lustration laws. 17% of the voters in Donetsk and Lugansk are not voting. Poroshenko's victory is guaranteed.

- Mike


----------



## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

HBK 3:16 said:


> While Ukraine doesn't have many bright spots in their period to celebrate; cause when you look at their history; it's pretty bad.
> 
> Pre-Tsarist - Constant War and Destruction over the lands of Ukraine; only bright spot considered here by many Ukrainians (at least the ones I have talked too over the net) is the Kievan Rus
> Tsarists - Oppression, Forced Russification and Murder
> ...


I have played some pretty good Ukrainian video games as well enjoyed viewing some Ukrainian porn stars

so they got that 

you have to start somewhere


----------



## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> First of all, there were not "thousands of deaths during Maidan." The confirmed death toll was approximately *100 civilians* and *18 police officers*. There were probably more, but the number is not in the thousands - more likely a few hundred if that.


Okay, it was still a bloody affair to say the least.



> Secondly, since Obama blurted out an admission to CNN that the U.S. was involved in the Maidan uprising from the beginning, it is highly likely that Langley is responsible for those deaths - both morally and in actuality. The sniper attacks on the demonstrators and police very well could have been orchestrated by a third party interested in fomenting as much violence as possible to bring down Yanukovich.


:chlol Really? really now? your suggesting that the goddamned sniper attacks and police attacks ordered by the good President Yanukovych against his populace were orchestrated by another party? conspiracy town here are we?



> As I said, the Communist Party Ukraine was *openly banned*. The Party of Regions was *defacto banned* by the Kiev junta's adopted official policy of "*lustration*." Lustration or "cleansing" (from the Latin) was the policy that forbade Party of Regions members who were loyal to Yanukovich from participating in public office.


The Party of Regions was banned at local levels in a few city's and oblast, not by the federal government on the national level. Communist officials on the other hand gave financial support to separatists in the Donbass; which is treason under Ukrainian law and rightfully punishable. But the CPU itself is still legal under Ukrainian law as of this point.



> The lustration laws eliminated a large part of the Party of Regions, including its most highest ranking members. Threats, coercion, and outright violence took care of the rest. In fact, it was a modern day purge that was ignored in the Western press.


Many POR members resigned voluntarily, the rest were voted out in most cases.



> After coming under criticism from a few Western European sources for its open banning of the CPU, the Kiev junta didn't want to risk any criticism for outright banning the Party of Regions. Instead, they adopted the lustration laws which did the trick and did not attract much attention.
> 
> The open banning of the CPU, lustration of the members of the Party of Regions, and the systematic persecution and terrorizing of independent politicians removed any opposition to the Kiev junta’s agenda.


:chlol Yeah so what about those free presidential and parliamentary elections? 



> Regarding the fascist nature of the junta now ruling Ukraine, actions speak louder than words.
> 
> -	The Kiev junta takes power by violently overthrowing the *ELECTED* president and trashing the Ukrainian Constitution.


An elected President that gave up his right to legitimacy after firing on his own civilian populace? seems like a rightful revolution to me.



> -	Crimea does not recognize the junta and opts to secede and join Russia.


Only _after_ being invaded and illegally occupied by Russian special force troops.



> -	Donetsk and Lugansk refuse to recognize the junta and opt to secede and become independent.


Only _after_ being invaded by Russian special force troops and Kremlin funded rebels.



> -	Other regions that refused to recognize the illegal junta are put down by force. Mobs of Right Sector and Svoboda thugs burn 40 people alive in Odessa to make their point that resistance to the Western Ukrainian led junta is futile.


Actions of the Right Sector and Svoboda are not acceptable, but that does not automatically paint the entire Ukrainian government as fascist.



> -	The National Guard is formed to police restive civilian populations and fight pro-independence rebels.


It was formed to protect Ukraine against invading forces.



> -	Oligarchs like Kolomoisky are given permission to raise their own mercenary armies.


Bad, but less worse then anything Russia has done really.



> -	Einsatzgruppen type volunteer punitive battalions like Azov are formed and commit myriad atrocities in the east.


Azov's bad, but none of them are committing anything even close to the Einsatzgruppen; there is no proof of such things occurring. While Russian militias are out there gunning down Jews, LGBT people; and Ukrainians.



> -	The Russian language comes under attack despite it being native to over a third of the population and spoken by over three quarters.


A law that was immediately shot down by the Ukrainian parliamentary two days after it's implementation and ruled unconstitutional? yeah.. that's such a attack.



> -	Torchlight parades and the restoration of WW II Nazi symbolism appear.
> 
> -	Restoration of Nazi collaborators as “Heroes of Ukraine.”


Neo-Nazi groups are bad, but as everyone else said, people like Bandera fought both the Nazis and the Soviets; they are considered heroes who fought for Ukrainian independence.



> - Snap elections are hastily put together after the CPU is banned and the Party of Regions is defacto disbanded via the lustration laws. 17% of the voters in Donetsk and Lugansk are not voting. Poroshenko's victory is guaranteed.
> 
> - Mike


Large amounts of voters in Donetsk and Luhansk didn't vote because large parts of those oblasts were controlled by the Kremlin-backed Rebels, which did not participate in the elections; not because the Kiev government's "evul fascist oppression" prevented them from doing so.

- HBK


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Café de René said:


> The difference being that these days we don't celebrate Vichy by doing parades or building statues of its leaders. Actually even people who think that cooperation was the right call or think that marshal Pétain is a national hero would be shocked at the idea of celebrating some of the darkest days in French history.


This is an excellent point. Despite some shameful episodes, at least France is not celebrating the collaboration of some of its citizens with the Nazis. It should also be noted that French collaboration with the Nazis is dwarfed by the collaboration of the Western Ukrainians.

The Organization of Ukrainian Nationalist (OUN) police under the leadership of *Stepan Bandera* played a crucial role in the mass murder of *200,000 Jews *in Western Ukraine in 1942. This was a joint project between the German Nazis and Bandera's OUN.

Bandera's OUN was the political arm of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army which committed the mass murder of approximately *100,000 Poles* in Volhynia and Galicia in 1943.

Western Ukrainians served in concentration death camps as guards and executioners. In addition to Poles and Jews they murdered Russians, Gypsys, and Ukrainians who did not support their movement.

In 1943 they turned on their German allies, but by 1944 were back on board with them as the Red Army advanced.

Large numbers of this scum were allowed to entire the U.S. and Canada after the war, because it was believed they would be an excellent source of anti-Soviet propaganda. 

- Mike


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_Really? really now? your suggesting that the goddamned sniper attacks and police attacks ordered by the good President Yanukovych against his populace were orchestrated by another party? 
_

I sure am. In fact, Yanukovich held back using lethal force and wound up losing control of the situation. 

To whose advantage was it to have the sniper attacks? Certainly not to Yanukovich. It's pretty obvious that such an action would incite more riots. 

I understand that the same weapons and ammo killed both the rioters and the police officers. I don't think the rioters would have deliberately fired on their own people. Also, I don't believe that the police would have gunned down their own officers. 

However, now that it was admitted by the American President that the U.S. was involved in the Maidan uprising from the beginning it makes sense that it could have been a third party who was pulling strings in the background. Langley has no qualms about murdering people to further its agenda.



_The Party of Regions was banned at local levels in a few city's and oblast, not by the federal government on the national level. Communist officials on the other hand gave financial support to separatists in the Donbass; which is treason under Ukrainian law and rightfully punishable. But the CPU itself is still legal under Ukrainian law as of this point._

The CPU was banned from participating in the Verkhovna Rada thus unable to represent the people who voted for it. It's offices were burned down in a number of cities and its literature piled in the street for a good old fashioned Nazi book burning. 

Let's use a different word for what happened to the POR - lustration or cleansing, since it was not banned nationwide. The POR was cleansed of its leaders and a large number of its members by the lustration laws and the accompanying violence the junta mete out to it. The end result was the same. The POR is no longer a viable political entity.



_Many POR members resigned voluntarily, the rest were voted out in most cases._

If by voluntarily you mean threatened, terrorized, and physically assaulted until they left then you would be correct.



_Yeah so what about those free presidential and parliamentary elections?_ 

If you mean the election that was won by Poroshenko and the other American appointed puppets I believe I covered that already.



_Only after being invaded and illegally occupied by Russian special force troops_.

By recent *WESTERN* polls 85% of the people of Crimea (including the Tatars) are very happy getting away from the Kiev junta and being part of Russia. The celebrations and festivities after the secession were evidence of what the people of Crimea wanted. Russian spetznaz was not necessary to force Crimea to secede or keep it as part of Russia. Recent polls conducted by *WESTERN* pollsters confirm this.



_Only after being invaded by Russian special force troops and Kremlin funded rebels_.

The people in Donetsk and Lugansk didn't need Russian spetsnaz to force them to secede. They wanted out of Kiev junta controlled Ukraine.



_It was formed to protect Ukraine against invading forces_.

Wrong! The National Guard was formed to control the civilian population and fight the rebels in the east, because the troops of the regular Ukrainian Army are reluctant to shoot down their own people. The overwhelming majority of troops in the National Guard are Western Ukrainians - many of them members of Right Sector and Svoboda.



_Bad, but less worse then anything Russia has done really_.

What has Russia done??? I wish they would do something like launch a full scale invasion already, The Russian Army could be in Kiev in a week and end this crap. Unfortunately, Putin has not sent in his forces like he did when psycho Saakashvili invaded South Ossetia with the tacit approval of Washington.



Azov's bad, but none of them are committing anything even close to the Einsatzgruppen; there is no proof of such things occurring. While Russian militias are out there gunning down Jews, LGBT people; and Ukrainians.

Gunning down Jews, LGBT people, and Ukrainians??? No comment. 



_A law that was immediately shot down by the Ukrainian parliamentary two days after it's implementation and ruled unconstitutional? yeah.. that's such a attack_.

While the law may have been rescinded due to pressure from their western puppeteers, the Russian language TV and radio stations have been closed down or their transmissions from abroad blocked.

Also, anti-Russian language propaganda is spread in the schools where grade schoolers are put up for display if they have a Russian rather than Ukrainian first name.


----------



## Café de René (Sep 27, 2011)

HornSnaggle said:


> More than shocked, I believe they would be thrown in jail in france, the land of thought control.
> Anyhow, you cannot directly compare any 2 nations, France & Ukraine no exception. Many Frenchmen collaborated with the Nazis, many willingly joined the SS to fight the Russians. 1,000,000's of French woman willingly had sex with German occupiers, I don't see you in a strong position to cast stones.
> 
> Most if not all men they idolize from that era fought both the Russians and Germans, they wanted independence and were forced to make temporary alliances with whoever was occupying them at the time.
> In that position you, I and most anyone else would likely do the same.


First of all, you might wanna be more careful when using words like "willingly", "many" and "millions". Secondly, I don't cast stones on anyone who lived under the threat of death or deportation. (hence why you should be careful when using "willingly")

I get that Vichy France and Ukraine SSR are two different context and have a different history but still I find questionable that someone like Banderas isn't more controversial, because every leaders in the world who made illegitimate alliances, even for the greater good, are considered so in their respective countries.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*CROSS TALK: PURGING KIEV*
_Purging Kiev, or the revolution eats its own children: On the back of an economic meltdown and defeat on the battlefield there are signs the Maidan revolutionaries are turning on each other. Walking away from the Minsk ceasefire process, the Kiev regime is looking desperate. Is more war their only option? 
_


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## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> I sure am. In fact, Yanukovich held back using lethal force and wound up losing control of the situation.
> 
> To whose advantage was it to have the sniper attacks? Certainly not to Yanukovich. It's pretty obvious that such an action would incite more riots.
> 
> I understand that the same weapons and ammo killed both the rioters and the police officers. I don't think the rioters would have deliberately fired on their own people. Also, I don't believe that the police would have gunned down their own officers.


However, now that it was admitted by the American President that the U.S. was involved in the Maidan uprising from the beginning it makes sense that it could have been a third party who was pulling strings in the background. Langley has no qualms about murdering people to further its agenda.[/QUOTE]

The situation is incredibly murky, but it's clear that Yanukovych or members of his regime were the likely party behind the sniper attacks against the populace, the US would have no interest in destabilizing a country intentionally as you suggest it does.



> The CPU was banned from participating in the Verkhovna Rada thus unable to represent the people who voted for it. It's offices were burned down in a number of cities and its literature piled in the street for a good old fashioned Nazi book burning.
> 
> Let's use a different word for what happened to the POR - lustration or cleansing, since it was not banned nationwide. The POR was cleansed of its leaders and a large number of its members by the lustration laws and the accompanying violence the junta mete out to it. The end result was the same. The POR is no longer a viable political entity.


I do not condone such violent acts, but the CPU still under the law of the Ukrainian constitution committed acts of treason by giving financial support to the Donetsk and Luhansk Rebels; so the government in Kiev is within it's authority to rightfully prosecute the party for it's crimes.

As for the Lustration Laws, upon further inspection I see that the General Prosecutor of the Ukrainian government said that they did not comply with the country's constitution; so I'll give you that one I suppose.



> If by voluntarily you mean threatened, terrorized, and physically assaulted until they left then you would be correct.


Not condoning any violence or threats that may have been made against POR officials, but many did resign out of their own accord without threats forcing them too.



> If you mean the election that was won by Poroshenko and the other American appointed puppets I believe I covered that already.


What evidence do you have that suggests that Poroshenko is an American puppet? cause he is not; he won a free and fair election within the areas that could and choose to vote in the Presidential Elections.



> By recent *WESTERN* polls 85% of the people of Crimea (including the Tatars) are very happy getting away from the Kiev junta and being part of Russia. The celebrations and festivities after the secession were evidence of what the people of Crimea wanted. Russian spetznaz was not necessary to force Crimea to secede or keep it as part of Russia. Recent polls conducted by *WESTERN* pollsters confirm this.


I won't deny that the Crimean people probably would have voted to rejoin Russia if they had been able to vote in a free and fair environment, but they were not. The presence of Russian troops came before any vote was organized, votes were conducted with armed troops and mercenaries guarding polling stations and reviewing votes, opposition groups were intimidated by a steady stream of Russian government propaganda, no option to retain the status quo within Ukraine was made available on the poll; and no media coverage for the pro-Ukrainian side of the poll was allowed. All of these make the vote that occurred illegal and unethical in it's nature.

Also, the Tatars boycotted the vote and were intimidated by Russian authorities through persecution (a more recent example of which includes the forced shutdown of the only Tatar language TV Station in Crimea); Ukrainian and Tatar have also been barred from being taught in Crimean schools. The same depreviation of their language rights that the Russians "suffered" in the Donbass and Crimea according to you.



> The people in Donetsk and Lugansk didn't need Russian spetsnaz to force them to secede. They wanted out of Kiev junta controlled Ukraine.


Oh really? then why were nearly all of the initial leaders of the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republic citizens of the Russian Federation and many members of the Russian Military; rather then local civilians from the regions?



> Wrong! The National Guard was formed to control the civilian population and fight the rebels in the east, because the troops of the regular Ukrainian Army are reluctant to shoot down their own people. The overwhelming majority of troops in the National Guard are Western Ukrainians - many of them members of Right Sector and Svoboda.


Yes, the National Guard was reformed to combat rebels in the East and unite all the militias under one command; is it somehow wrong for Ukraine to defend itself?



> Gunning down Jews, LGBT people, and Ukrainians??? No comment.


Of course you don't, when it's Ukrainian "atrocities" you can't not talk about it; but when Russian atrocities are brought up you have nothing to say, funny how that works; ain't it?

Here's just a few nuggets of how "kind" and "friendly" your local Russian militant can be.

http://ukrainianpolicy.com/pro-russian-separatists-loot-assault-romani-in-sloviansk/

http://web.archive.org/web/20140610...lub-attacked-by-separatists-video-351341.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30126207

http://www.unian.net/politics/90967...byyavili-ohotu-na-ukrainoyazyichnyih-smi.html

http://upogau.org/eng/inform/uanews/worldnews_1514.html



> While the law may have been rescinded due to pressure from their western puppeteers, the Russian language TV and radio stations have been closed down or their transmissions from abroad blocked.
> 
> Also, anti-Russian language propaganda is spread in the schools where grade schoolers are put up for display if they have a Russian rather than Ukrainian first name.


Yeah, what about the Ukrainian and Tatar language TV and radio stations that are being forced to close down or end broadcast and be replaced by Russian stations? can you justify that?

As for schools, schools in the Donbass and Crimea are only allowed to teach in Russian, depriving hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians and Tatars of their right to a education and their general language rights.


----------



## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_*The situation is incredibly murky, but it's clear that Yanukovych or members of his regime were the likely party behind the sniper attacks against the populace, the US would have no interest in destabilizing a country intentionally as you suggest it does.
*_
You contradicted yourself in the first sentence. If the situation is "incredibly murky" how can it be "clear that Yanukovich or members of his regime were the likely party behind the sniper attacks"???

On the contrary, the U.S. was involved in engineering the coup and had every reason to continue destabilizing the country until Yanukovich was out. McCain and Nuland weren't there to make sure things were stable. They were there to show the Western Ukrainian revolutionaries Washington's support and push destabilization of the country.


_*I do not condone such violent acts, but the CPU still under the law of the Ukrainian constitution committed acts of treason by giving financial support to the Donetsk and Luhansk Rebels; so the government in Kiev is within it's authority to rightfully prosecute the party for it's crimes.
*_
To my knowledge the Communist Party Ukraine never gave any financial support to the independence movement in Donetsk and Lugansk. Please provide a source for your information.

The "act of treason" committed by Petro Symonenko, Chairman of the CPU, was when he called for the end of the punitive invasion of the east on the podium of the Verkhovna Rada. This, like any deviation from or criticism of the Kiev junta's agenda, is grounds for being called a traitor. 



_*Not condoning any violence or threats that may have been made against POR officials, but many did resign out of their own accord without threats forcing them too*_.

None resigned of their own accord. They resigned because of the coercion and violence being perpetrated against POR members. None of them wanted to endure this:

March 10, 2014, Oleg Lyashko reported secretly going to the Lugansk region on Sunday night and detaining Arsen Klinchev, a member of the local parliament from the Party of Regions.






_*What evidence do you have that suggests that Poroshenko is an American puppet? cause he is not; he won a free and fair election within the areas that could and choose to vote in the Presidential Elections.*
_
Diplomatic cables exposed by Wikileaks indicated that Poroshenko has been in Washington's hip pocket for years. 
http://scgnews.com/leaked-documents-ukraines-new-president-works-for-the-us-state-department

Victoria Nuland flat out stated that the Prime Minister, Yatseniuk, "is our man in Kiev." Do you think that Washington engineered a coup only to have control of the Prime Minister? They needed the President to be "our man" also.

Poroshenko won an election that offered *NO* choice of policy. Every candidate was pro-West, pro-EU, pro-US, anti-Russian, and pro-Maidan. The ironic part is this lack of any diversity was the reason that at the last minute the Kiev junta decided to allow the Communist Party Ukraine and POR to run candidates. It was strictly to give the impression of some sort of "democratic choice." Wisely, neither Party fell for the bait.


_*I won't deny that the Crimean people probably would have voted to rejoin Russia if they had been able to vote in a free and fair environment, but they were not. The presence of Russian troops came before any vote was organized, votes were conducted with armed troops and mercenaries guarding polling stations and reviewing votes, opposition groups were intimidated by a steady stream of Russian government propaganda, no option to retain the status quo within Ukraine was made available on the poll; and no media coverage for the pro-Ukrainian side of the poll was allowed. All of these make the vote that occurred illegal and unethical in it's nature.
*_
I see - the Crimean vote was "illegal" and "unethical" in your eyes. However, you believe the U.S. engineered violent coup that overthrew the elected government in Kiev was "legal" and "ethical." This is typical, blatant Western hypocrisy. 

Seriously, if you agree that the Crimean people would have voted to rejoin Russia in any case what's the problem??? 

*Russia had 20,000 troops in Crimea as per agreement with Ukraine *for over decade. In fact, they were allowed up to 25,000 troops according to the lease contract for the Crimean ports. 

Extra troops that were brought in were *NOT* to intimidate voters, but as protection against retaliation from the Kiev junta. Don't forget that the Ukrainian Army had troops in Crimea also. The fact that most of them went over to the Russian side is irrelevant. The Kiev junta had the potential to create a huge battlefield in Crimea.


_*Also, the Tatars boycotted the vote and were intimidated by Russian authorities through persecution (a more recent example of which includes the forced shutdown of the only Tatar language TV Station in Crimea); Ukrainian and Tatar have also been barred from being taught in Crimean schools. The same depreviation of their language rights that the Russians "suffered" in the Donbass and Crimea according to you*_.
The fact that the Tatar population boycotted the vote is irrelevant. They had the opportunity to vote. Even if every eligible Tatar voted the referendum would have passed by 85% of the vote. 

Please provide some sources for this "Russian persecution" of the Crimean Tatar population and the forced closing of their TV station. As I mentioned in my previous post, the overwhelming majority of people in Crimea are ecstatic that they are part of Russia now - and that includes the Tatars.

Use some common sense - where would any normal person rather be? As part of Ukraine with its fascist government, violence, crashing economy, and overall general misery or as part of Russia with a chance to live a normal, quiet life???


_*Yes, the National Guard was reformed to combat rebels in the East and unite all the militias under one command; is it somehow wrong for Ukraine to defend itself*_?

The problem is that it is *NOT* Ukraine that is defending itself. The group that overthrew the elected government of Ukraine formed the National Guard to invade regions that oppose the coup d'etat of last February. As I mentioned, the composition of the Guard is almost completely Western Ukrainians and many Right Sector and Svoboda members. The National Guard is more of a gang of ultra-nationalist thug-enforcers for the Kiev junta.

- Mike


----------



## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> You contradicted yourself in the first sentence. If the situation is "incredibly murky" how can it be "clear that Yanukovich or members of his regime were the likely party behind the sniper attacks"???
> 
> On the contrary, the U.S. was involved in engineering the coup and had every reason to continue destabilizing the country until Yanukovich was out. McCain and Nuland weren't there to make sure things were stable. They were there to show the Western Ukrainian revolutionaries Washington's support and push destabilization of the country.


Yanukovych was the one who controlled the military, the police, he was the one who had reason to put down dissident and unrest; the Maiden supporters had no reason to kill their own people or the police. Especially since they had up to that point been relatively non-violent in nature.

As for the US, the US did not "engineer" anything, an unstable Ukraine would be inherently dangerous for NATO's position; to the contrary America would be more interested in ensuring a stabilized Ukraine came about of the Crisis that occurred.



> To my knowledge the Communist Party Ukraine never gave any financial support to the independence movement in Donetsk and Lugansk. Please provide a source for your information.
> 
> The "act of treason" committed by Petro Symonenko, Chairman of the CPU, was when he called for the end of the punitive invasion of the east on the podium of the Verkhovna Rada. This, like any deviation from or criticism of the Kiev junta's agenda, is grounds for being called a traitor.


The official charges describe a general financing of terrorism in the Party activities, activities which (according to the charges) includes financial support. I remember reading a source that described the charges in greater detail, but it was some months ago; I wish I could provide further information.

As for Symonenko, he was in a Russian Communist Party meeting and appeared on RT; there is cause for concern of the man's loyalty there even more.



> None resigned of their own accord. They resigned because of the coercion and violence being perpetrated against POR members. None of them wanted to endure this:


Plenty resigned of their own accord; some were coerced to resign through violence. But not all.



> Diplomatic cables exposed by Wikileaks indicated that Poroshenko has been in Washington's hip pocket for years.
> http://scgnews.com/leaked-documents-ukraines-new-president-works-for-the-us-state-department


A blatantly Pro-Russian website? yeah; sure I will believe that. Give me a non Pro-Russian source.



> Victoria Nuland flat out stated that the Prime Minister, Yatseniuk, "is our man in Kiev." Do you think that Washington engineered a coup only to have control of the Prime Minister? They needed the President to be "our man" also.


Ms. Nuland is not exactly a high ranking government official, the fact that you are also taking the words "our man" literally when it just means that he is an American friend in general; not some puppet on strings.



> Poroshenko won an election that offered *NO* choice of policy. Every candidate was pro-West, pro-EU, pro-US, anti-Russian, and pro-Maidan. The ironic part is this lack of any diversity was the reason that at the last minute the Kiev junta decided to allow the Communist Party Ukraine and POR to run candidates. It was strictly to give the impression of some sort of "democratic choice." Wisely, neither Party fell for the bait.


After Russian troops invaded the country, did you really expect Ukrainians to vote for a Pro-Russia candidate? besides, it was up to the candidates to run; and the top candidates were all Western friendly. And the one that got the most votes won.



> I see - the Crimean vote was "illegal" and "unethical" in your eyes. However, you believe the U.S. engineered violent coup that overthrew the elected government in Kiev was "legal" and "ethical." This is typical, blatant Western hypocrisy.
> 
> Seriously, if you agree that the Crimean people would have voted to rejoin Russia in any case what's the problem???


There was no U.S. coup d'etat for the last time; that is just blatant Russian propaganda. Secondly, my problem is if we're going to talk about coup d'etat's here, how about the illegal election of a Mayor in Sevastapol that occurred against direct Ukrainian law; or how about how the Crimean Prime Minister was disposed from power when Russian militants occupied the parliament building and forced the deputies present in the building at the time to conduct an illegal vote (one directly against the Ukrainian constitution) to vote for a new Prime Minister? Are those somehow legal and ethical despite being against direct Ukrainian law?

http://books.google.com/books?id=te...appointed by the President of Ukraine&f=false 

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Euro...omy-vote-amid-gunmen-anti-Kiev-protests-video



> *Russia had 20,000 troops in Crimea as per agreement with Ukraine *for over decade. In fact, they were allowed up to 25,000 troops according to the lease contract for the Crimean ports.
> 
> Extra troops that were brought in were *NOT* to intimidate voters, but as protection against retaliation from the Kiev junta. Don't forget that the Ukrainian Army had troops in Crimea also. The fact that most of them went over to the Russian side is irrelevant. The Kiev junta had the potential to create a huge battlefield in Crimea.


Yes Russia had troops in Crimea, but they were legally allowed to only operate on the perimeters of the Sevastapol Naval Base and other Russian bases, the Russians directly violated this agreement by illegally occupying Crimean government buildings, roads and other strategic military and political locations; before finally securing full control of the peninsula.

The Ukrainian troops however decided to pull out and not cause a bloodbath that would have seen civilians killed.

To sum it up, the Crimean separation vote was conducted in an environment where media coverage for both sides of the vote was not allowed, where armed troops monitored polling stations, where widespread political intimidation occurred, and where both of the options on the poll were the same thing (Option 1 was to join Russia immediately, Option 2 was to declare independence and join Russia later); eliminating the options of either maintaining the status quo of Crimea within Ukraine or voting for increased autonomy. Furthermore, the terms of the Ukrainian constitution dictate that a referendum can not legally occur without express approval of the government; so there's another strike against Ukrainian law right there.



> The fact that the Tatar population boycotted the vote is irrelevant. They had the opportunity to vote. Even if every eligible Tatar voted the referendum would have passed by 85% of the vote.
> 
> Please provide some sources for this "Russian persecution" of the Crimean Tatar population and the forced closing of their TV station. As I mentioned in my previous post, the overwhelming majority of people in Crimea are ecstatic that they are part of Russia now - and that includes the Tatars.



The fact that the Tatars boycotted the vote is very relevant my friend, that's over 10% of Crimea's population right there who refused to vote; that's a significant amount of people not satisfied with the new status quo.

*As for your sources, here you go.*

http://carnegieeurope.eu/strategiceurope/?fa=56754

https://www.amnesty.org/en/articles...s-risk-persecution-and-harassment-new-crimea/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/annabor...-tatars-and-the-question-of-radicalization-3/

http://www.newsweek.com/crimean-tatars-fear-increasing-persecution-313111

*And a source for the TV Station Shutdown
*
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/02/w...s-down-tv-station-serving-crimean-tatars.html



> Use some common sense - where would any normal person rather be? As part of Ukraine with its fascist government, violence, crashing economy, and overall general misery or as part of Russia with a chance to live a normal, quiet life???


Russia's economy is not exactly pushing daisies right now, and the life expectancy in Russia is worse then _North fucking Korea_; honestly I would say things aren't great in either country.



> The problem is that it is *NOT* Ukraine that is defending itself. The group that overthrew the elected government of Ukraine formed the National Guard to invade regions that oppose the coup d'etat of last February. As I mentioned, the composition of the Guard is almost completely Western Ukrainians and many Right Sector and Svoboda members. The National Guard is more of a gang of ultra-nationalist thug-enforcers for the Kiev junta.
> 
> - Mike


How is an invasion by Russian troops and a Civil War within two separate regions not defending itself? I'm not saying all of the composition of the Guard or even all Ukrainians are nice people; but to deny that Russia launched a war of aggression against it's neighbor aimed at annexing territory just shows bias.

In addition, Poroshenko also just forced a noted corrupt oligarch in Dnipropetrovsk to resign from his post http://www.ibtimes.com/ukrainian-ol...after-tense-standoff-poroshenko-over-1858314; they also banned Nazi propaganda too http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-parliament-bans-communist-nazi-propaganda-115421909.html

I also note that you completely glossed over the atrocities and oppression being committed against minorities by Donetsk and Luhansk; I guess that means committing crimes against humanity and depriving people of their civil liberties is okay as long as your Russian?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

HBK 3:16 said:


> I also note that you completely glossed over the atrocities and oppression being committed against minorities by Donetsk and Luhansk; I guess that means committing crimes against humanity and depriving people of their civil liberties is okay as long as your Russian?


It's not a matter of glossing over anything. You believe the American narrative and nothing will change your mind. We can go back and forth all day and I can cite myriad atrocities with videos committed by Kiev junta's forces, but what is the point??? 

The bottom line is that everything we have debated about here is a *DIRECT RESULT OF THE VIOLENT OVERTHROW OF THE ELECTED UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT BY AN ILLEGAL U.S. ENGINEERED COUP*.

No coup - no Crimea secession. No coup - no civil war in Donetsk and Lugansk. No coup - no civilian passenger airliner shot down. No coup - no collapsing Ukrainian economy.

However, the biggest *NO* is *no coup - NO CHANCE FOR NATO TO TAKE OVER UKRAINE!* And this is the only "*NO*" that Washington and Langley give a damn about.

- Mike


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## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> It's not a matter of glossing over anything. You believe the American narrative and nothing will change your mind. We can go back and forth all day and I can cite myriad atrocities with videos committed by Kiev junta's forces, but what is the point???
> 
> The bottom line is that everything we have debated about here is a *DIRECT RESULT OF THE VIOLENT OVERTHROW OF THE ELECTED UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT BY AN ILLEGAL U.S. ENGINEERED COUP*.
> 
> ...


Yes your glossing over very many things actually, most of all the fact that Saint Putin and the Kremlin's Boy Scout's are not as holy and kind as you make them out to be, if the Ukrainian government is a Neo-Nazi dictatorship; then Russia and it's allies on the ground are fucking Hitler themselves because they are no better and in fact much worse then Ukraine has ever been in it's history. (That's not to say that I believe Ukraine is automatically saintly themselves; but Russia is far worse)

:rileylol And for the last time this was not an US-engineered coup d'etat; the events of February 2014 were orchestrated by local Ukrainians who were fed up with the corruption and lies of their government. The US has absolutely no involvement in events until after the dust had already been settled and Crimea seized by Russian special forces; those are the facts on the ground.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

HBK 3:16 said:


> And for the last time this was not an US-engineered coup d'etat; the events of February 2014 were orchestrated by local Ukrainians who were fed up with the corruption and lies of their government. The US has absolutely no involvement in events until after the dust had already been settled and Crimea seized by Russian special forces; those are the facts on the ground.


So, you know U.S. foreign policy and Langley regime change tactics better than the President of the U.S. who stated a few weeks ago to a CNN reporter that the United States was involved in the Maidan from the very beginning???

Again - everything that has happened is a reaction to and the result of the U.S. engineered and backed Maidan uprising/coup d'etat. With the expansion of NATO and the tripling of its size since the dissolution of the Soviet Union it is no surprise that they would be coming after Ukraine next in order to build bases on Russia's borders.

- Mike


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## HBK 3:16 (Oct 9, 2014)

Batko10 said:


> So, you know U.S. foreign policy and Langley regime change tactics better than the President of the U.S. who stated a few weeks ago to a CNN reporter that the United States was involved in the Maidan from the very beginning???
> 
> Again - everything that has happened is a reaction to and the result of the U.S. engineered and backed Maidan uprising/coup d'etat. With the expansion of NATO and the tripling of its size since the dissolution of the Soviet Union it is no surprise that they would be coming after Ukraine next in order to build bases on Russia's borders.
> 
> - Mike


:rileylol Wow your really twisting Obama's words to fit your Pro-Putinist agenda aren't you? What the President meant by what he said on CNN was that he negotiated with Yanukovych's regime to transition temporary power to a new government during the Maiden protests; not that the US had backed some covert "Nazi coup" in Ukraine.

As for the second part of your post, you do realize the only reason that NATO expanded Eastwards was because the Eastern European states _asked_ to join because of their own security concerns.... right?; it wasn't some grand conspiracy to "box" Russia in and destroy her like Saint Putin claims.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

HBK 3:16 said:


> Wow your really twisting Obama's words to fit your Pro-Putinist agenda aren't you? What the President meant by what he said on CNN was that he negotiated with Yanukovych's regime to transition temporary power to a new government during the Maiden protests; not that the US had backed some covert "Nazi coup" in Ukraine.


So now you are the interpreter of what the President of the United States meant to say???

Obama had no contact with Yanukovich regarding a transition of power. He was negotiating with the revolutionaries for a transition of power, i.e. regime change, while Yanukovich was talking with the EU about an agreement to end the civil strife. 











- Mike


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

In the early 90s the idea of a one world military policing the world and stopping all conflict and massive globalization was considered a utopia 

Then we decided we still hated each other

also joining Nato is a great deal for an underdeveloped nation, the US takes care of all your military needs and gives you tons of free cash that can go to your nations infrastructure

or your bank account


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

*Russia just made a ton of Internet memes illegal*










In post-Soviet Russia, you don’t make memes. Memes make (or unmake?) you.

That is, at least, the only conclusion we can draw from an announcement made this week by Russia’s three-year-old media agency/Internet censor Roskomnadzor, which made it illegal to publish any Internet meme that depicts a public figure in a way that has nothing to do with his “personality.”

Sad Keanu? Nope.

Sad Putin? Absolutely not.

“These ways of using [celebrities’ images] violate the laws governing personal data and harm the honor, dignity and business of public figures,” reads the policy announcement from Roskomnadzor.

To be clear, this isn’t a new law passed by parliament or anything — it’s just a (pretty startling) clarification of existing policy, published to the popular social network Vkontakte. According to Russian media, the announcement came in light of a lawsuit filed by the Russian singer Valeri Syutkin, who sued an irreverent Wikipedia-style culture site over an image macro that paired his picture with some less-than-tasteful lyrics from another artist’s song. On Tuesday, a Moscow judge ruled for Syutkin, prompting the Roskomnadzor to publish an update to its “personal data laws.”










Full article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...de-a-ton-of-internet-memes-illegal/?tid=sm_fb


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

[/IMG]

ХРИСТОС ВОСКРЕС​
Христос воскресе из мертвых,
Смертию смерть поправь,
И сущим во гробех живот даровав

Christ is risen from the dead,
Trampling down death by death,
And bringing life into the tombs.

*HAPPY EASTER TO ALL OUR EASTERN ORTHODOX LIST MEMBERS!
*

Midnight Easter Service & Procession with the Cross in Moscow's Christ the Saviour Cathedral.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_It is interesting how the West played up Nemtsov's murder blaming Putin without any evidence whatsoever, but it is silent when it comes to 8 likely murders over the last few months of Party of Regions members and others who opposed the Kiev junta.
_
_In the past few months, at least eight former Ukrainian government officials died mysterious deaths, with most treated as suicides. 

On *January 29*, former chairman of Kharkov region government, *Aleksey Kolesnik*, was found hanged. 

On *February 24*, former Party of Regions member *Stanislav Melnik* died of a gunshot with his death treated as suicide. 

On *February 25*, several hours before his trial, the Mayor of Melitopol *Sergey Valter* was found hanged leaving no suicide note. 

The next day, *February 26*, deputy chief of Melitopol police, *Aleksandr Bordyuga*, who reportedly acted as Valter’s lawyer, was found dead in his garage. 

On *February 26*, a former MP and ex-chairman of Zaporozhye Regional State Administration was found dead with a gun wound to his neck. His death is being investigated as a suicide. 

On *February 28*, former member of the Party of Regions, *Mikhail Chechetov*, "jumped" from the window of his 17th floor apartment in Kiev, leaving a "suicide note." 

On *March 14*, a 32-year-old prosecutor *Sergey Melnichuk* fell from a window of a 9th floor apartment in Odessa. 

- Mike

_










Another ally of Ukraine ex-president Yanukovych found dead

Kiev (AFP) - A former Ukraine deputy was shot dead in Kiev Wednesday, the fourth ally of ousted pro-Moscow ex-president Viktor Yanukovych to die in suspicious circumstances in the past two months.

The body of Oleg Kalashnikov was found at his home on Wednesday evening, the interior ministry said in a statement.

"Death was caused by gunshot," the statement added. A police inquiry has been opened.

Kalashnikov had taken part in protests in support of the pro-Moscow leader Yanukovych who was ousted in 2014 after three months of mass demonstrations calling for his removal ended in a bloodbath.

*The ex-deputy's death follows a spate of mystery "suicides" by allies of Yanukovych*.

*Three former lawmakers close to the ousted leader were found dead in Ukraine in March,* in what The Party of Regions -- dormant since Yanukovych's ouster -- has called a consequence of their persecution by Kiev's new pro-Western government.

*Their deaths followed four "suicides" earlier this year of regional officials who were working under the old regime*.

On top of that, Yanukovych's 33-year-old son Viktor Jr. died last month after his car apparently fell through ice on Russia's Lake Baikal.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_Thanks to RT and other Russian news media outlets the West cannot ignore the political assassinations being committed in Ukraine the last couple of months.

You can criticize RT, but if it wasn't reporting on things like this the Western news media would be as silent as the grave of Oles Buzina, the latest victim of the Kiev junta's purge of the opposition.

- Mike
_


Oles Buzina, a pro-Russian journalist, shot dead in Ukraine; killing politically motivated, says president Vladimir Putin










*Journalist Oles Buzina, the latest victim of the Kiev junta's murder spree of the opposition*

REUTERS/ABC
April 16, 2015

A prominent pro-Russian journalist has been shot dead in Kiev by two masked gunman, in what Russian president Vladimir Putin is calling a "political assassination".

Oles Buzina, a supporter of ousted president Viktor Yanukovych, was shot in the street near the city centre, according to Ukraine's interior ministry.

"Today at 1320 (8:20pm AEST) ... two unidentifiable men in masks shot journalist Oles Buzina," a statement from the ministry read.

The 45-year-old was known for his pro-Russian opinion pieces published in Ukraine's Sevodnya daily newspaper, which is part of the media empire of Ukraine's richest businessman, Rinat Akhmetov.

The shooting appeared to have taken place outside his home and a team of police investigators was at the scene.

Buzina ran in last year's election for a parliamentary seat for the Russian Bloc party, but was not elected.

Russian president Vladimir Putin, in a televised Moscow call-in show, referred specifically to Buzina's death, saying it was politically motivated.

"This is not the first political assassination. Ukraine is dealing with a whole string of such murders," Mr Putin said.

It comes a day after a former lawmaker loyal to ousted president Yanukovich was also killed.

Oleh Kalashnikov, a former member of parliament for Yanukovich's discredited Party of Regions, was killed in a similar attack at his home as he entered the premises.

An interior ministry adviser to President Petro Poroshenko linked the deaths, as both victims played a part in the 'Anti-Maidan' movement, which opposed pro-Western protests that ousted Yanukovich last year.

"It seems the shooting of witnesses of the Anti-Maidan affair continues," Anton Gerashchenko said in a Facebook post.

Reuters/ABC

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-16/pro-russia-ukrainian-journalist-shot-dead-in-kiev/6399194


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## bob_bloblaw (Apr 13, 2015)

Wow, never thought I'd see politics being discussed in a wrestling forum, LOL


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## SuzukiGUN (Aug 10, 2014)

I know there are a lot of none uk but European posters on here and i just wanted to know

In or out of the EU and why? im still trying to form my opinion as we have our election in a few weeks


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

*Ukrainian journalist Oles Buzina, a vocal critic of current Ukrainian govt, was murdered in Kiev.*










The journalist was shot dead near the entrance of his house. Anton Gerashchenko, the interior minister's adviser, has confirmed the information on his Facebook page.

The incident occured at 1:20 pm local time (11:20 am GMT) in Shevchenko district of the Ukrainian capital.
Investigative team works on the site.
Oles Buzina was an opposition journalist, writer and TV host, well-known for his criticism of Poroshenko's goverment.

On Wednesday, Oleh Kalashnikov, a Ukrainian MP and a member of the Party of Regions, was killed near his residence in Kiev.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150416/1020966780.html


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## CJ (Jun 28, 2011)




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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

if you dont support putin you are a nazi!!!11

edit: these russian people sound like north koreans.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

The big problem with Russia right now is in their society 

Many young people there honestly believe that everything bad that happens in Eastern Europe is a "western conspiracy" and Russia would rule the world if the CIA, Jews, Bankers etc. did not ruin the USSR 

these people have never lived under the old regime or only during its last days went it was the USSR in name only 

The worse things get the more they believe and smart politicians can prey on that by pointing at people they don't like and saying "its their fault" 

Putin is in a great places because as long as he is doing something "anti-west" people will love him even if it self serving or will harm his nation

They see him stopping food imports and making life worse as "good thing" because he is being defiant to the people they blame their problems on 

There is no way to fix this problem because the more open you get the more hostile they will get just to be "different"

Russia will never accept things like gay rights or stop antisemitism because that is "western thinking" from the people "trying to destroy them"


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

stevefox1200 said:


> The big problem with Russia right now is in their society
> 
> Many young people there honestly believe that everything bad that happens in Eastern Europe is a "western conspiracy" and Russia would rule the world if the CIA, Jews, Bankers etc. did not ruin the USSR
> 
> ...



The attitude of the Russian people is the direct result of the policies of the United States and West in general.

I remember the attitude of people back in the early 1970s when I went to visit my relatives for the first time in the Byelorussian SSR. I found virtually *NO* hostility toward the United States. There was a sense of wariness, but the overwhelming feeling was one of curiosity and a desire to be friends with America.

During the 1991 breakup of the USSR there were mixed feelings among everyone, but I would say that I gleaned a feeling of optimism for friendship with the West among the young people who supported Yeltsin.

Ironically, thanks to U.S. policy toward Russia after the dissolution of the Soviet Union these positive feelings have morphed into mistrust and outright hatred of the United States. 

U.S. and Western backing of Yeltsin's brutal regime took aback even some of the younger, idealistic people with whom I worked in Moscow. About two years after Yeltsin took power I recall one kid who was an ardent Yeltsin supporter and who looked at the U.S. starry eyed. He told me that supporting Yeltsin was the biggest mistake that he had ever made in his life. 

Yeltsin and his cronies raped Russia during the 1990s and turned it into a beggar nation. The United States fully supported this drunken murderer and business people poured in from the West and took part in the pillage of the country.

If it wasn't for Putin and a number of patriots getting together and ousting Yeltsin the country would have continued to crawl on its knees where Washington likes to see Russia. 

The bottom line is that the United States made a tacit promise to Russia and the former SSRs that they would be accepted into the Western community and allowed to participate on an equal footing after the dissolution of the USSR. 

It quickly became painfully evident to Russians that this promise was only good as long as Russia remained subservient and obedient to the dictates of Washington. A strong, vibrant Russia was looked upon as a dangerous economic rival even though it was now capitalist, not communist. 

The only reason that the West demonizes Putin is because he dragged Russia up from its knees where it had been forced by Washington's lickspittle Boris Yeltsin. Russians are well aware that if the West says something is good for Russia - BEWARE! Do the opposite. 

- Mike


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Batko10 said:


> The attitude of the Russian people is the direct result of the policies of the United States and West in general.
> 
> I remember the attitude of people back in the early 1970s when I went to visit my relatives for the first time in the Byelorussian SSR. I found virtually *NO* hostility toward the United States. There was a sense of wariness, but the overwhelming feeling was one of curiosity and a desire to be friends with America.
> 
> ...


Which is a massive and very ignorant view

Russia is and is going to be a third world joke because they ignore what is being said and care more about who's saying it 

If an American was offering free pizza and a Russian was offering a free beating they would take the beating

That's not pride or boldness, its stupidity 

Russia is the of the few former USSR nations that has failed to integrate themselves into main Europe, most of the eastern European nations are on good terms with the rest of the world once they got out of their Soviet bullshit 

The Cold War is over, Russia lost

They can't be a locked down fortress anymore, when you merge with the rest of the world there will be pain, there will be a loss identity but the mixture of ideas will grow and form a better places

Russia was so absorbed with WE USED TO BE BIG that they traded a connected future for a smug sense of comfort which will leave them with tensions for years

Any one who thought that the world would just hold hands after the cold war was over was a fool and Russia got butt hurt that they could not have the white house keys on day one 

After decades of no outside contact they don't know how politics have evolved and have a pre-WW2 view of the world

and its going to destroy them


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## Vader Bomb (Apr 14, 2015)

SuzukiGUN said:


> In or out of the EU and why? im still trying to form my opinion as we have our election in a few weeks


Personally an output of my country from EU isn't a solution. The problem is always the corrupted politicians and the lambs who support them. I find ridiculous the fact my people have stupid criterion about who they vote. Always put first their personal interest. The last fifty years two families rule this land.

If you don't mind me asking were are you from @*SuzukiGUN*?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

Apparently, you didn't read or bother to pay attention to my post. 

Everything was exactly opposite of what you are portraying. The Russians wanted to enter the mainstream of Western commerce and connect on various levels with the West. Unfortunately, Washington had other ideas. They deliberately egged on and encouraged their stooge, Yeltsin, to destroy the Russian economy and, especially, the military. 

The U.S. was very friendly with Russia during the decade of the 1990s, because Yeltsin was dismantling and crippling the country. The weak, groveling Russia created by the pillage of Boris Yeltsin, his cronies, and organized crime, and invading western corporations was exactly what Washington wanted.

The Russia of the 1990s was totally controlled by criminal gangs from which arose oligarchs who made their fortunes after getting the blessing of Yeltsin's regime to pillage the Russian economy. This situation suited Washington. Yeltsin was their puppet and clown. The Russian economy was stagnant. Many oligarchs grabbed up concerns built during Soviet times for pennies on the dollar or were awarded them gratis for services to the Yeltsin regime. Instead of investing back into these concerns, many oligarchs just kept pocketing the cash until the company went bankrupt.

The worst part was that Russia was becoming dependent on Western food. At one point during Yeltsin's "Decade of Destruction" 70% of Moscow's food was imported and close to 40% of the food consumed in the entire country came from abroad. Any nation that is dependent on foreign food sources to feed its population is asking to lose its independence. 

Meanwhile, the average life expectancy for a Russian male went *from 68 years old in 1990 to 55 years old in 1996*. Polio, TB, and myriad other diseases were making a comeback due to the collapsing healthcare system.

While all this was going on the U.S. tripled the size of NATO right up to Russia's borders. 

When Yeltsin was finally kicked out and Putin started to reverse the damage that was done the Russophobes in Washington became extremely agitated. They realized that they no longer had a stooge who would keep Russia down while they carried out their plans for a worldwide hegemony.

The U.S. engineered and backed coup in Ukraine is the point of no return regarding relations between Russia and the U.S. I can see the Kremlin getting back to a more or less normal relationship with Europe and the E.U. But, for all intents and purposes, Washington has killed any chance for real, normal relations with Russia. Their actions over the last two decades culminating with the U.S. engineered regime change in Ukraine is well known to the average Russian citizen. 

There is a reason that Russians hate America today.

- Mike


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## SuzukiGUN (Aug 10, 2014)

Vader Bomb said:


> Personally an output of my country from EU isn't a solution. The problem is always the corrupted politicians and the lambs who support them. I find ridiculous the fact my people have stupid criterion about who they vote. Always put first their personal interest. The last fifty years two families rule this land.
> 
> If you don't mind me asking were are you from @*SuzukiGUN*?


Im from England and i find it amazing that you don't support the EU, they bailed your country out loads of debt. Greek debt is quite a big topic in the UK


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_The Kiev junta continued its purge of oppositionists with last night’s murder of Olga Moroz, Editor and Chief of the Neteshinsky Vestnik. Moroz voiced her opposition to the policies of the American supported puppet Kiev junta in her newspaper.

Also in the news was a discovery that the Advisor to the Interior Minister of Ukraine, Anton Gerashchenko, has an “*enemies of the state*” database website that lists the names and personal information of journalists, activists, MPs, and anyone who has voiced opposition to the regime in Kiev. Gerashchenko is also an MP in the parliament (Verkhovna Rada).

48 hours after the names of the last two murder victims appeared on the list they were liquidated! Such is life – and death – in today’s fascist controlled Ukraine.

Mike_

Another Ukrainian Journalist Found Dead, Murder Suspected 









Olga Moroz, Editor & Chief of an opposition newspaper murdered last night

April 17, 2015, Friday // 12:27

*SOFIA NEWS AGENCY*: The editor in chief of the Ukrainian publication Neteshinskiy Vestnik has been murdered, as reported by the Bulgarian National Television. The body of Olga Moroz has been found in her home in the city of Neteshin. Investigators have found traces of violence. The reasons behind the murder have not yet been established, but according to the police the most probable seems to be her work in the media. 

- See more at: http://www.novinite.com/articles/16...d+Dead,+Murder+Suspected#sthash.lLdXecIS.dpuf


Personal details of murdered journalist & ex-MP found posted on Ukrainian 'enemies of state' database

Published time: April 17, 2015 17:07 
Edited time: April 17, 2015 19:11 

The journalist and ex-MP who were gunned down in Kiev this week were on an ‘*enemies of the state’ *database – a social media website supported by the *aide to Ukraine's interior minister*. The bloggers also have a Twitter account to share ‘successes.’

The volunteer-made website calling itself ‘Mirotvorec’ (Peacekeeper), posts very thorough and comprehensive information on anyone who happens to make the list – *journalists, activists, MPs opposing the current Kiev authorities' policies *and rebels fighting against the government in the east. *The posts include their addresses, social media account links, a substantial biography and any mentions in the Ukrainian press*. There is also labeling involved e.g. “terrorist; supporter of federalization” and other tags.

The website indicates that politician *Oleg Kalashnikov’s *and journalist *Oles Buzina's *details were published on the site no more than 48 hours before both were found dead.

*READ MORE AT :*
http://rt.com/news/250529-ukraine-journalists-killed-database/


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

It's crazy, because they have a whole website for profiling the ‘enemies of the state’ where the killers can find personal information about them, which makes killing easier. That's seriously messed up.

Also, such sick people, those who actually cheer their deaths. Do you agree with this, Batko?


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_This very long interview can be read in full at the following link. Below are excerpts. - Mike_

http://www.salon.com/2015/04/16/the...ussiaukraine_history_the_media_wont_tell_you/

THURSDAY, APR 16, 2015 06:00 PM CDT

The New York Times “basically rewrites whatever the Kiev authorities say”: Stephen F. Cohen on the U.S./Russia/Ukraine history the media won’t tell you 

*There's an alternative story of Russian relations we're not hearing. Historian Stephen Cohen tells it here* 

*PATRICK L. SMITH*

Cohen is a distinguished Russianist by any measure. While a professor at Princeton and New York University, he has written of the revolutionary years (“Bukharin and the Bolshevik Revolution,” 1973), the Soviet era (“Rethinking the Soviet Experience,” 1985) and, contentiously but movingly and always with a steady eye, the post-Soviet decades (“Failed Crusade: America and the Tragedy of Post-Communist Russia, 2000; “Soviet Fates and Lost Alternatives,” 2009). “The Victims Return: Survivors of the Gulag After Stalin” (2010) is a singularly humane work, using scholarly method to relate the stories of the former prisoners who walk as ghosts in post-Soviet Russia.

The interview that follows took place in Cohen’s Manhattan apartment some weeks after the cease-fire agreement known as Minsk II was signed in mid-February. It sprawled over several absorbing hours.


*What is your judgment of Russia’s involvement in Ukraine? In the current situation, the need is for good history and clear language. In a historical perspective, do you consider Russia justified?*

“Well, I can’t think otherwise. I began warning of such a crisis more than 20 years ago, back in the ’90s. I’ve been saying since February of last year [when Viktor Yanukovich was ousted in Kiev] that the 1990s is when everything went wrong between Russia and the United States and Europe. So you need at least that much history, 25 years. But, of course, it begins even earlier…”

“…What’s happened in Ukraine clearly has plunged us not only into a new or renewed—let historians decide that—Cold War, but one that is probably going to be more dangerous than the preceding one for two or three reasons. *The epicenter is not in Berlin this time but in Ukraine, on Russia’s borders, within its own civilization*…” 


*The Ukraine crisis in historical perspective is very dangerous ground. You know this better than anyone, I would think.
* 
“This is where I get attacked and assailed. It’s an historical judgment. The [crisis now] grew out of Clinton’s policies, what I call a “winner take all” American policy toward what was thought to be—but this isn’t true—a defeated post-Cold War Russia, leading people in the ’90s to think of Russia as in some ways analogous to Germany and Japan after World War II: Russia would decide its internal policies to some extent, and it would be allowed to resume its role as a state in international affairs—but as a junior partner pursuing new American national interests.

“…The problem is that by taking the view, as the American media and political establishment do, that this crisis is entirely the fault of “Putin’s aggression,” there’s no rethinking of American policy over the last 20 years. *I have yet to see a single influential person say, “Hey, maybe we did something wrong, maybe we ought to rethink something.” *That’s a recipe for more of the same, of course, and more of the same could mean war with Russia….”

“…Our position is that nobody is entitled to a sphere of influence in the 21st century.. *But what is the expansion of NATO other than the expansion of the American zone or sphere of influence? *It’s not just military. It’s financial, it’s economic, it’s cultural, it’s intermarriage—soldiers, infrastructure. It’s probably the most dramatic expansion of a great sphere of influence in such a short time and in peacetime in the history of the world…”

“…So you have Vice President Biden constantly saying, “Russia wants a sphere of influence and we won’t allow it.” *Well, we are shoving our sphere of influence down Russia’s throat*, on the assumption that it won’t push back. ..*The hypocrisy, or the inability to connect the dots in America, is astonishing*…”



*The nature of the Kiev regime. Again, there’s a lot of fog. So there’re two parts to this question. The coup matter and the relationship of the Yatsenyuk government to the State Department—we now have a finance minister in Kiev who’s an American citizen, addressing the Council on Foreign Relations here as we speak—and then the relationship of the Kiev regime with the ultra-right*.

“It’s a central question. I addressed it in a Nation piece last year called “Distorting Russia.” One point was that the apologists in the media for the Kiev government as it came to power after Feb. 21, and for the Maidan demonstrations as they turned violent, ignored the role of a small but significant contingent of ultra-nationalists who looked, smelled and sounded like neo-fascists. *And for this I was seriously attacked, …and that the real fascists were in Russia, not in Ukraine.”*

“…Maybe there are fascists in Russia, but we’re not backing the Russian government or Russian fascists. The question is, and it’s extremely important, “*Is there a neo-fascist movement in Ukraine that, regardless of its electoral success, which has not been great, is influencing affairs politically or militarily*, and is this something we should be worried about?...” *The answer is 100 percent yes*. But admitting this in the United States has gotten a 100 percent no until recently, when, finally, a few newspapers began to cite Kiev’s battalions with swastikas on their helmets and tanks. So you’ve gotten a little more coverage..." 

“…It’s another example of something you can’t discuss in the mainstream media or elsewhere in the American establishment. When you read the testimony of [Assistant Secretary of State] Nuland, this is never mentioned. But what could be more important than the resurgence of a fascist movement on the European continent? I’m not talking about these sappy fascists who run around the streets in Western Europe. *I’m talking about guys with a lot of weapons, guys who have done dastardly things and who have killed people…*” 

“…We say we’re doing everything we’re doing in Ukraine and against Russia, including running the risk of war, *for a democratic Ukraine*, by which we mean Ukraine under the rule of Kiev. *Reasonably, we would ask to what extent Kiev is actually democratic.* But correspondents of the Times and the Washington Post regularly file from Kiev and basically re-write whatever the Kiev authorities say while rarely, if ever, asking about democracy in Kiev-governed Ukraine…”


*I take Kiev’s characterization of its war in the eastern sections as an “anti-terrorist campaign” to be one of the most preposterous labels out there right now*.

"But, then, why did Washington say OK to it? Washington has a say in this. Without Washington, Kiev would be in bankruptcy court and have no military at all. Why didn’t Washington say, “Don’t call it anti-terrorist?” *Because if you call it “anti-terrorism” you can never have negotiations because you don’t negotiate with terrorists*, you just kill them, a murderous organization with murderous intent..."

*"...By saying that this is not a civil war, it’s just Russian aggression—this omits the human dimension of the entire war, and also the agency of the people who are actually fighting in the east—the hairdressers, the taxi drivers, the former newspaper reporters, the school teachers, the garbage men, the electricians, who are probably 90 percent of those fighting*. There are Russians there, from Russia. But Ukraine’s army has proved incapable of defeating or even holding off what began as a fairly ragtag, quasi-partisan, ill-equipped, untrained force..."

"...The horror of this has been Kiev’s use of its artillery, mortars and even its airplanes, until recently, to bombard large residential cities, not only Donetsk and Luhansk, but other cities. This is against the law. These are war crimes, unless we assume the rebels were bombing their own mothers and grandmothers and fathers and sisters. *This was Kiev, backed by the United States. So the United States has been deeply complicit in the destruction of these eastern cities and peoples..."* 

"...Ever since the Clinton administration, we’ve bleated on about the right to protect people who are victims of humanitarian crises. You’ve got a massive humanitarian crisis in eastern Ukraine...I don’t notice the United States organizing any big humanitarian effort. *We have shut our eyes to a humanitarian crisis in which we are deeply complicit*. This is what’s shameful, whether you like or don’t like Putin. *It’s got nothing to do with Putin. It has to do with the nature of American policy and the nature of Washington—and the nature of the American people, if they tolerate this*.

READ MORE AT :
http://www.salon.com/2015/04/16/the...ussiaukraine_history_the_media_wont_tell_you/


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_Washington's lickspittles in the Polish government usually kow tow to anything the U.S. dictates. However, high ranking Polish military officers are voicing opposition to Washington's puppet fascist government in Ukraine.

If the normally obedient Poles are calling the Kiev junta neo-Nazis, it may be time for the West to rethink its position on Ukraine. 

- Mike_


Polish General Skrzypczak Repudiates Support for Ukraine 










General Waldemar Henryk Skrzypczak, *former commander of the Polish Army (2006-09)* and *former Polish Deputy Minister of Defence (2012-13)*, said in an interview with the newspaper Dziennik Gazeta Prawna (DGP), “*I repudiate everything that I said earlier about supporting the Ukraine*”. 

He believes that there isn’t any reason to believe that the Ukraine is a friend of Poland. He came to that conclusion after the Verkhovnaya Rada passed a law glorifying the UPA, who were responsible for killing 100,000 Polish civilians during the Volyn Massacres of 1943-44. What’s worse, the vote on the law occurred right after Polish President Bronisław Maria Komorowski gave effusive compliments to Kiev. 

Skrzypczak told DGP, “The UPA killed my uncle, nailed him to the door of a shed, and he died only after lingering there for three days. *Their savagery was beyond human imagination. Even the Nazis didn’t go as low as the Western Ukrainians did.* 

Besides this, the murder of Poles by Ukrainians began not in 1943, but rather in September 1939. How many know that when our soldiers retreated to Hungary and Romania, armed Ukrainian gangs attacked them? I’d like to know what future Ukrainian President Poroshenko intends to build and on what basis… on bloodthirsty nationalism? It’s horrible. Ukrainians have to rid themselves of nationalism; otherwise, it’d be very difficult, almost impossible, for Poles to coöperate with them”.

Earlier, Skrzypczak had said, “The Ukraine needs weapons”. As aired in January 2015 on Polskie Radio dla Zagranicy (Polish Radio External Service), he said that the Ukrainians needed weapons for offensive operations, particularly tanks, “We have surplus tanks that we can repair and provide to the Ukraine. However, we must give them ammunition along with the tanks, as they’re going to have to be able to fight Russian tanks”. He also added that the sooner the Ukraine gets weapons, the better, because the strengthening the Ukrainian army would quickly jumpstart peace negotiations, because sanctions “don’t impress [the Kremlin]”. Skrzypczak noted, “The Ukraine lacks the military capability to defeat the separatists (sic)”.

17 April 2015

IA Regnum

http://www.regnum.ru/news/polit/1916399.html


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_U.S. troops are in Western Ukraine training the forces of the fascist Kiev junta while the junta is openly stating that anyone who does not support the agenda of the regime should keep their mouth shut or else!

Another case of the U.S. military supporting "democracy in action!"

- Mike
_
UKRAINIAN CHIEF INVESTIGATOR TELLS "UKRAINOPHOBES" TO "SHUT THEIR MOUTHS" IF THEY WANT TO REMAIN ALIVE

SPUTNIK, 13:30, 21.04.2015

*Speaking on Ukrainian television Monday evening regarding the recent string of murders of prominent opposition journalists and politicians, Ukrainian Security Services Chief Investigator Vasily Vovk recommended that dissidents "shut their mouths" if they want to remain alive*.









Major General Vasily Vovk told Ukrainians who oppose the Kiev junta's regime to "shut their mouths" if they want to remain alive.

Appearing on the seemingly ironically titled program Svoboda Slova ('Freedom of Speech') on Ukraine's ICTV, Vovk stated that "I think that in our time, when there is practically a war going on, Ukrainophobes, if they don't shut their mouths, should at least stop their rhetoric. I think that in the present situation, there shouldn't be anyone stepping out directly against Ukraine and Ukrainianness."

The official warned that in the event that the 'Ukrainophobes' do not listen to him, "nothing good will come of it," adding that he says this "as the head of the Investigative Office of the Ukrainian Security Services."

READ MORE: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150421/1021167285.html


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## Café de René (Sep 27, 2011)

SuzukiGUN said:


> I know there are a lot of none uk but European posters on here and i just wanted to know
> 
> In or out of the EU and why? im still trying to form my opinion as we have our election in a few weeks


Out.

Trust me you don't want that TTIP treaty they're going to force on us sooner or later...


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*CROSS TALK: THE KIEV REGIME*

Ukraine’s is a complex and a multilevel tragedy – as the economy continues to collapse, the Kiev leadership is hell-bent on destroying civil liberties and eliminating dissent. All the while Washington and its European allies remain largely silent. And the lack of credible Western media coverage is part of the problem.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_Almost a week after Polish General Waldemyr Skrzypczak told the Kiev junta to go fuck itself and its Nazi Ukrainian Insurgent Army, the President of Poland, Bronislaw Komorowski, came up for air from kissing Washington's ass and made a statement denouncing Kiev.

Even the usually gutless American lickspittle Komorowski was forced to get a pair of balls and denounce the Nazis of the American puppet Kiev junta.

Meanwhile, the President of Slovakia, Andre Kiska, gave Washington a figurative finger when he announced that it was the Soviet Red Army that liberated Slovakia from the Nazi occupation and he would honor the fallen Soviet Red Army soldiers who, in fact, liberated his country. 

- Mike _

Poland Backs Away From Dialogue After the Ukraine Glorifies Nazi Collaborators 

*Polish President Bronisław Komorowski ruled out any further “historic dialogue” with the Ukraine following its glorification of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) as fighters for independence*. 

Komorowski condemned the Ukrainian Rada’s recent recognition of the UPA as fighters for independence, telling TVN24 news channel, “There could be no reconciliation between Poland and the Ukraine without a dialogue. We have a lot of work ahead in [setting] our relations with the Ukraine”. 

*President Komorowski noted that the misfortune of the recently adopted law is that it prevents any further historic dialogue between the two countries*. However, he added that communication between the two countries isn’t over, and that both sides should search for a positive solution to the existing tension in relations.

On 9 April, the Rada passed a “Law on the Status and Memory of the Participants in the Struggle for Independence in the 20th Century”, recognising ultranationalist groups like the UPA and Organisation of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) as freedom fighters. The above term also includes anyone who fought for Ukraine’s independence between November 1917 and 24 August 1991, as part of formal, informal, underground, military, or guerrilla groups. 

The move came several hours after Komorowski’s visit to Ukraine and his call for reconciliation between the Polish and Ukrainian people, following their difficult and complex common history. Komorowski then expressed hope that old disputes and quarrels “won’t get in the way in the path to good dialogue between the two countries and peoples”. Over the past decade, attempts by Ukrainian historians to rehabilitate the UPA strained Ukrainian-Polish relations.* Polish historians blame the killing of between 100,000 and 130,000 Polish civilians and 5,000-10,000 Ukrainian civilians in Volynia and Eastern Galicia on the UPA, claims which Ukrainian historians have downplayed or denied outright*.

23 April 2015

Sputnik International

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150423/1021261030.html


Slovakian President to Honor Fallen Soviet Soldiers Across Country

*Slovakia's President said that he will go across the country to pay respects to graves of fallen Soviet soldiers who were killed liberating the country from Nazi Germany*.

Slovakian President Andrej Kiska said that he will spend May 8 going across the country to light candles at the grave sites of Soviet soldiers who died during the country's liberation in WWII.

Around 100,000 fighters, primarily Soviet Red Army soldiers, were killed liberating Slovakia from Nazi Germany. Although Kiska is not visiting Moscow for the May 9 Victory Day parade, he previously said that he still intends to honor soldiers who were killed liberating Slovakia.

*"The most important thing is to whom we should make a bow for our liberation from Nazism. For me there is no ambiguity here, we must give our respects to the people who put down their lives here," Kiska told a Slovakian newspaper…
*
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150425/1021384554.html#ixzz3YLdjvOZs


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_Apparently, the Western media is virtually mute regarding the recent murders of 10 anti-Kiev junta journalists and activists, because the West is complicit in those murders.

The “enemies of the state” website that publishes personal information about people who do not follow the Kiev junta’s agenda and fingered the recent murder victims is run out of* ESTONIA *and technically supported by *NATO!*

Personally, I don’t find this surprising. I wouldn’t find it surprising if down the road it was proved that the CIA was involved in those murders. It’s just more of the same old crap from the hypocritical “democratic,” “freedom loving” West.

-	Mike 
_

NATO trace found behind witch hunt website in Ukraine

April 27, 2015

*A controversial Ukrainian website publishing personal information about ‘enemies of the state’ appears to have been run by a NATO cyber center in one of the Baltic states*. The website went offline on Saturday following public pressure.

NATO’s Cooperative Cyber Defense Centre of Excellence – СCD-COE has been exposed as providing technical support for Mirotvorec, a website of Ukrainian nationalists running ‘enemies of the state’ database. 

The information available at DomainTools, “the leader in domain name, DNS and Internet OSINT-based Cyber Threat Intelligence and cybercrime forensics products and data”, is decisive: the registrant of the Mirotvotec website is ‘NATO CCD-COE’ and its employee ‘Oxana Tinko’,* operating from Estonia’s capital Tallinn*. The address of the registrant coincides with the address of СCD-COE: Filtri tee 12, Tallinn 10132, Estonia…

*READ MORE:* http://rt.com/news/253117-nato-ukraine-terror-site/


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

*Russia cuts nuclear arms stockpiles to minimal levels*

Russia has been consistently fulfilling all points of the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT), including its Article VI, Russian President Vladimir Putin has said.

"We have reduced our nuclear weapons stockpiles to minimal levels, thereby making a considerable contribution to the process of comprehensive and complete disarmament. We plan to continue this work, as well as maintain the balance between the development of peaceful nuclear [programs] and the strengthening of the non-proliferation regime, including the guarantees system of the IAEA [International Atomic Energy Agency]," he said in a message to participants in an NPT conference.

Russia is committed to closely cooperating with all parties concerned "to create a modern, sustainable and secure architecture of cooperation in the sphere of nuclear power," the Russian president said.

"We believe that the balance between the three key components of NPT - nuclear non-proliferation, disarmament and the use of nuclear power for peaceful purposes - guarantees its relevance in the future," he said.

Such an approach and the goal of making NPT a universal document prevailed during the 2010 NPT Review Conference and allowed it to produce specific agreements, which remain relevant even today, Putin said.

"I hope that during this conference all NPT signatory states will reaffirm their readiness to strictly abide by their obligations. Beyond any doubt, this will become an important factor of strengthening peace, stability and security on our planet," Putin said in his message.

Source: http://rbth.co.uk/news/2015/04/28/r...ockpiles_to_minimal_levels_-_putin_45598.html


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*CROSS TALK: 15 YEARS OF PUTIN*

_Fifteen years ago Vladimir Putin assumed the Russian presidency and no one can doubt that he has left his mark on the country since then. Widely popular at home and demonized in the West, Putin has presided over Russia’s transformation from a country on its knees to a renewed global power. What is left on his agenda? 

CrossTalking with Edward Lozansky, John Laughland, and Mary Dejevsky_.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*CROSS TALK: REMEMBERING VICTORY*
The War in Europe came to an end 70 years ago. The Soviet Union and its Allies stood supreme over the vanquished Nazi enemy, with the continent on its knees. What lessons have been learned since that vast conflict? And what lessons have been unlearned? Was the loss of so many millions in vain? 

CrossTalking with Geoffrey Roberts, Jeffrey Tayler and Dmitry Babich.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

THE BATTLE FOR BERLIN 






The last major battle of WWII in Europe came in April-May 1945, as the Red Army surrounded the German capital and pushed inwards to decapitate the Nazi regime. In a last-ditch attempt to turn the war around Nazi leaders rounded up civilians to fight.

By the time of the offensive, Soviet and Polish troops outnumbered the resisting German forces in both manpower and hardware. However, Berlin was fortified in preparation for defense and the sheer number of troops participating – which included some 2.5 million attacking and 770,000 defending – meant there would be no easy taking of the city. 

Supporting regular troops in the street battles were members of the Volkssturm militia and Hitler Youth organization as young as 16. Nazi leaders ordered harsh punishment up to execution on the spot for deserters. 

On April 23, the first Soviet troops started fighting their way into Berlin’s suburbs. By April 27, the city was fully encircled, and fierce battles were raging in its streets. 

“Of all the operations I lived through during the war, the Berlin operation was the hardest, the most difficult,” Vladimir Lebedev, a veteran of the war, told RT. 

“Imagine a huge city packed with fascists. They were shooting from everywhere. From basements, windows, attics. Bullets were whistling by. It’s a miracle anyone survived. Out of 100 soldiers born in 1923-24, only three returned home. And out of the 1,000 reconnaissance troops, only seven,” he recalled. 

Despite the desperate resistance, Berlin fell by May 2, although episodic clashes continued throughout the city. The Reichstag building became a scene of intensive fighting on April 29, which culminated two days later with lifting of a red flag on its roof – the fourth to make it there, but the first not to be destroyed by German artillery fire. 

Several key figures in the Nazi government, including Adolf Hitler himself, committed suicide rather than be taken prisoner by the Soviet soldiers. Others surrendered to stand trial for war crimes. 

*The unconditional capitulation of the Germany army was signed on May 8, but in Moscow it was already the next day, which explains why V-Day is celebrated on May 9 in Russia. 
*


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## Stannis Baratheon. (Feb 26, 2005)

this isnt even a discussion thread anymore.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*ВСТАВАЙ СТРАНА ОГРОМНАЯ! / RISE UP HUGE NATION!*

PARADE OF VICTORY IN MOSCOW 2015


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

VICTORY DAY PARADE IN MINSK, BELARUS

*НИКТО НЕ ЗАБЫТ, НИЧТО НЕ ПРОЩЕНО! / NOONE IS FORGOTTEN, NOTHING IS FORGIVEN!
*






The President
of the Republic of Belarus

The official Internet portal of the President of the Republic of Belarus
Alexander Lukashenko wishes Happy Victory Day to all Belarusians

9 May 2015 

Dear compatriots,

I cordially congratulate you on the 70th anniversary of Victory in the Great Patriotic War.

On this sacred day we are especially grateful to the liberators and people working in the rear who defended the freedom and independence of our Motherland in the fierce fight against Nazi invaders. The holiday celebrated on 9 May is inseparably connected with the glorious generation of victors who saved the world from the “brown plague”, defended the Fatherland and then worked hard to raise the country from ruins. The feat of the Soviet people will be remembered by the entire mankind forever.

Today we also commemorate numerous victims of the war. We are united by the bitterness of losses in virtually every family. The Great Patriotic War claimed millions of lives, brought manifold hardships and tribulations. The Belarusians will be always grateful to those who endured terrible ordeals to smash fascism at the front and in partisan brigades in the name of peace and kindness.

The unparalleled heroism displayed by the older generation during the war will serve as a moral compass for the youth. This victory gave us an opportunity to live and work in peace for the benefit of the Fatherland.

We will always remember those who did not live to this peaceful day and were killed in the battlefield. We bow low to the veterans for their tenacity, courage and heroism in the fight against fascism.

I wish many years of health and wellbeing to all Belarusians.

Alexander Lukashenko



VICTORY BANNER RAISED IN WAR-TORN LUGANSK PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC






OFFICIAL

Dear veterans of the Great Patriotic War!

Dear Veterans of the Soviet Forces! 

Comrade generals, officers, warrant officers, sergeants, and soldiers! 

Citizens of the Lugansk People’s Republic! 

Brothers and sisters! 

Our Guests on this holiday!

On 9 May 1945, our glorious ancestors crushed the fascist vermin in their Berlin lair. They saved the world from Fascism and gave us 70 years of peaceful living, bequeathing us fruitful lives for the good of the Motherland.

Thank you, veterans, for that!

However, a rotten West Wind brought a new war in the Ukraine. Now, we have to fight. We weren’t expecting a war nor were we preparing for a war. Nevertheless, when armed intruders came to our land and began to behave like the Germans in 1941, we had to defend themselves. At first… it was almost with our bare hands. At first… force was on their side. However, as the saying goes, God is not in force, but in truth. Defending our homes and Motherland was our most sacred and true duty.

Today, our forces earned gratitude from everyone in Lugansk, instilled fear in the enemy, and wrote down glory in history. I remember how civilians came to us, and within days they mastered such military skills as using mortars, artillery, and tanks… and to win. They not only won, but they even forced Western mercenaries to flee. 

We all know how our MVD troops repeated the podvig of our fathers and grandfathers in the winter campaign. That was just the MVD troops… I’m sure the honour, loyalty, oath, and bravery of our Cossacks would merit the approval of Ataman Platov. They held one of the most difficult areas. They stood and stood some more. They didn’t flinch and they didn’t run. They won! 

It took our veterans four long years to win the Victory. We don’t have that much time. We must win our victory faster. Looking at you, our veterans, our strength increased tenfold. Russian soldiers have never lost a War of National Liberation or a Patriotic War.

We WILL defeat the enemy! Victory will be ours! 

URA, COMRADES!

V Plotnitsky

Chairman of the LNR Government

9 May 2015

LITs Lugansk Information Centre

http://lug-info.com/news/one/obrasc...-parada-v-chest-70-letiya-velikoi-pobedy-3136


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_Apparently, pig Poroshenko's "main ally" is the government of Moldova - *NOT* the people! Moldovans ignored the Kiev junta's call to its revisionist V-Day celebrations on May 8th as seas of people turned out on May 9th to march under the Red Banner of Victory and wear the St. George Ribbon that is so hated by the American backed fascist regime in Kiev.

It would seem that the Moldovan people have joined the Russians, Byelorussians, free Ukrainians, and others of the post-Soviet states in telling Poroshenko and the Kiev junta to stick his red poppies up his ass! :clap

- Mike
_
WEST IN SHOCK AS 65,000 TURN OUT IN KISHINEV, MOLDOVA ON MAY 9TH UNDER THE RED BANNER OF VICTORY!

On *9 May*, in Chișinău (Kishinyov, capital of Moldova), which Ukrainian junta strongman P A Poroshenko named one of his main allies, a march honouring Victory Day drew *65,000 participants flying the Red Banner of Victory and displaying the St George Ribbon*. 

Political commentator Vladimir Bukarsky told us, “There were 65,000 participants in the Victory March through the streets of Chișinău, attended by all patriotic elements without partisan symbols, with St George ribbons and flags. The march ended at the Memorial of Military Glory. A non-partisan march is a first. Primarily, this warns the Moldovan authorities… ‘*We the people won’t ever allow such distortions of history as we see in the Ukraine’*”.

11 May 2015

Dossier-Kiev

http://dosie.su/obshestvo/21503-zap...dy-prinyali-uchastie-65-tysyach-chelovek.html








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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

funny story

.su is the registered .com for the Soviet Union 

They only existed to the very beginning of the internet age but lasted just long enough to a domain code

It is most commonly used by Soviet loyalists, Soviet extremists, and criminals


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## Gandhi (Sep 15, 2012)

Stannis Baratheon. said:


> this isnt even a discussion thread anymore.


Burst out laughing from this post, thank you.


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

stevefox1200 said:


> funny story
> 
> .su is the registered .com for the Soviet Union
> 
> ...


WOW didn't know that. Thanks for sharing.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_The official National Anthem of the Donetsk People's Republic was performed for the first time at the opening of the new nation's first Parade of Victory on May 9, 2015 in Donetsk.

- Mike
_
Официальный Гимн Донецкой Народной Республики 
National Anthem of Donetsk Peoples' Republic 






Great Donbass the honor and pride of the people
Rich ores, forests, and fields,
Our labor loving nation, our life, and our liberty…
Our land for eternity preserved by God.

*Chorus:*
Glory to the Repubic, our people’s Republic
Glory to our beloved mining Donbass!
Glory to the Nation, by the spirit made free, 
By the friendship of the Peoples having united us!


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_The Nazis in the Kiev junta continue to rewrite history while the West looks the other way and trains the junta's killers. 

Meanwhile, the people in Ukraine go without utilities, food, jobs. Protests in Kiev and elsewhere are erupting among the population that is fed up with Washington's puppet government in Ukraine.

- Mike
_

POROSHENKO SIGNS RECOGNITION OF NAZI COLLABORATORS INTO LAW

On Friday, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko officially signed a series of laws outlawing communism, *while simultaneously recognizing the veterans of the Nazi collaborationist Ukrainian Insurgent Army as fighters for the independence of Ukraine*.

The controversial set of bills, which were approved by Ukraine's parliament last month, consists of four parts, including…*recognition of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army and other wartime ultranationalist organizations as freedom fighters… 
*
*Laws Either Contradictory or Highly Cynical*

…However, given its place among a package of bills which also glorify Nazi collaborationist 'fighters for independence', the attempt to outlaw communist ideology through a declaration of its moral equivalency with Nazism seems contradictory at best, and outright cynical at worst...

The Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) and the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, Western Ukrainian territorial militia…*were known for their genocidal policies in areas under their control during the war…* 

Given post-Maidan Kiev's attempts to rewrite the history of OUN-UPA as an Allied force in the fight against Nazi Germany, *Poroshenko's signing of the bill glorifying the group has also provided authorities with the legal mandate to make challenging such a claim punishable by law…
*
READ MORE: http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150516/1022217333.html


THOUSANDS MARCH IN KIEV AGAINST SOARING UTILITY PRICES

*Over five thousand people gathered Saturday morning in central Kiev to protest out-of-control utilities prices.
*
Walking up Khreshchatyk Street, one of the capital's central thoroughfares, protesters carried a variety of slogans, most of them focused on the drastic rise in utilities prices.

Along with Ukrainian flags, protesters also carried a number of posters and banners. Among them was a poster stating that Prime Minister "Yatsenyuk means poverty for Ukraine." Another read "Don't know how to work? Go work as a salesman for Roshen," referring to President Petro Poroshenko's chocolate empire. Another poster featured the phrase 'Mafia go AWAY'. One protester carried a caricature of a man in a barren apartment preparing to hang himself with a loop made out of a hot water pipe...

READ MORE: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150516/1022218894.html


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## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

I find it fascinating how the Ukraine has become the latest arena in the ongoing war between "jihadist" elements and Russia. Particularly in the Donbass region where Islamist militants--many of whom have a long-standing history against Russia in the Caucuses--have been forming greater and deeper bonds with one another in a slow-burning war of resistance (from their perspective) against Russia. Much like the vast area beyond the Dnieper River once upon a time viewed as the untamed lands beyond the Russian bear's grasp.

Many of these Islamist groups were pining for the sanctioning of their anti-Russian actions from Kiev but for the most part Kiev has remained cool toward the militias and fighters. Many of the militants linked to the nationalist Right Sector of Ukraine receive funds and housing from oligarchs. 

It is all quite fascinating to observe.


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## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

is it Ukraine or the Ukraine?

I assume the Ukraine refers to the actual land itself where as Ukraine refers to the nation 

also I own quite a bit of Ukraine made video games, I wonder if their studios are ok 

I assume they are closed down or will soon be making Russian propaganda mockbuster games "Call of Motherland: Advanced Combat"

I also always laugh when I see "people's republic" in a nations name, that name's got a shit ton of negative stigma and baggage


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## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

DesolationRow said:


> I find it fascinating how the Ukraine has become the latest arena in the ongoing war between "jihadist" elements and Russia. Particularly in the Donbass region where Islamist militants--many of whom have a long-standing history against Russia in the Caucuses--have been forming greater and deeper bonds with one another in a slow-burning war of resistance (from their perspective) against Russia. Much like the vast area beyond the Dnieper River once upon a time viewed as the untamed lands beyond the Russian bear's grasp.
> 
> Many of these Islamist groups were pining for the sanctioning of their anti-Russian actions from Kiev but for the most part Kiev has remained cool toward the militias and fighters. Many of the militants linked to the nationalist Right Sector of Ukraine receive funds and housing from oligarchs.
> 
> It is all quite fascinating to observe.


It's funny how similar Russia is to USA in this situation. Let's take a look:

Both Russia and USA used chaos in the region (Ukraine and Middle East respectively) to send their army there. Except, USA did so openly.

Both claim to have done so the fight the 'terrorists'.

The 'terrorists' in both conflicts claim to be defending their homeland (which is basically true).

Both countries do this for the natural resources. America for oil and Russia for oil, coal and other natural resources, which Eastern Ukraine is full of.

Neither country admits the truth and keep pointing fingers at each other.

It's amazing how many parallels you can draw here.


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## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

The parallels are unquestionably present, @Punkhead.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

DesolationRow said:


> I find it fascinating how the Ukraine has become the latest arena in the ongoing war between "jihadist" elements and Russia. Particularly in the Donbass region where Islamist militants--many of whom have a long-standing history against Russia in the Caucuses--have been forming greater and deeper bonds with one another in a slow-burning war of resistance (from their perspective) against Russia. Much like the vast area beyond the Dnieper River once upon a time viewed as the untamed lands beyond the Russian bear's grasp.
> 
> Many of these Islamist groups were pining for the sanctioning of their anti-Russian actions from Kiev but for the most part Kiev has remained cool toward the militias and fighters. Many of the militants linked to the nationalist Right Sector of Ukraine receive funds and housing from oligarchs.
> 
> It is all quite fascinating to observe.


The "jihadist elements" you speak of have not gone to Ukraine in order to fight for the Kiev junta, nor fight for Muslims in Ukraine. These "jihadist elements" have hooked up with the armies of the oligarchs and are fighting as paid mercenaries for them. The only bond they are forming is a bond related to the money they are being paid by the Kolomoisky type oligarchs. 

Regarding the "vast lands beyond the Dnepr," this was Kievan Rus a millenium ago and never "beyond the grasp of the bear," but part of Rus and associated with Russia.

- Mike


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## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

Don't disagree with either of those points. The oligarchs and their armies are assisting these fighters and vice versa.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_It's funny how similar Russia is to USA in this situation. Let's take a look:_

No matter how you try to twist it the similarities don't exist.



_Both Russia and USA used chaos in the region (Ukraine and Middle East respectively) to send their army there. Except, USA did so openly._

In both the Middle East and Ukraine the USA was the cause of the chaos with the goal of expanding the American hegemony. The USA invaded Iraq, bombed Libya, etc.

In Ukraine the USA engineered the overthrow of the elected President and supported the violence on the Maidan. The chaos and conflict in Ukraine are a direct result of the American engineered regime change. 



_Both claim to have done so the fight the 'terrorists'._

You've got that backwards. It is the Kiev junta that claims to be fighting terrorists, not Russia.



_The 'terrorists' in both conflicts claim to be defending their homeland (which is basically true)._

While the people of Novorossiya are defending their homeland they are hardly terrorists by any stretch of the definition. As a matter of fact, the invading forces of the Kiev junta are not terrorists - they are fascists and murderers, but not terrorists by definition. 



_Both countries do this for the natural resources. America for oil and Russia for oil, coal and other natural resources, which Eastern Ukraine is full of_.

The expansion of the American hegemony is definitely about natural resources and land. The USA is in Ukraine to expand NATO to Russia's borders and to control the natural resources of Ukraine as it strives to control the oil of the Middle East.

Russia has more natural resources and land than any other nation on earth. It does not need the coal of the Donbass. It is helping the defenders of Novorossiya to stop the advance of NATO and prevent the oppression of the Kiev junta's fascist ideology.

_
Neither country admits the truth and keep pointing fingers at each other_.
Actually, to the dismay of the U.S. State Dept. Obama accidentally blurted out the truth regarding American involvement in the Ukraine coup to a CNN reporter a couple of months ago.


_It's amazing how many parallels you can draw here_.

One can imagine parallels and make up whatever one wishes. "Chariot of the Gods" was written using that technique. It doesn't mean it's true.

- Mike


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_It's no surprise that Washington has no scruples or morals of any kind. On the one hand they are exploiting neo-Nazi Western Ukrainians to advance the U.S./NATO agenda in Ukraine. On the other hand, evidence is piling up that the defenders of democracy on Capitol Hill are in bed with the Albanian Islamists in Macedonia setting the foundations for a Macedonian "Maidan" and another U.S. engineered regime change.

This is all about the Turkish Stream Pipeline Project that the U.S. and E.U. oppose. The Macedonian people know that this pipeline is going to give their economy a huge lift and are not fooled by U.S. backed demonstrations to undermine the country. They see what the U.S. did in Ukraine and are not going to let it happen in their country!

- Mike_


‘No bowing down’: Tens of thousands of pro-govt protesters rally for Macedonian PM

Published time: May 19, 2015 10:15 










Tens of thousands of demonstrators came together to show their support for Macedonian Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski on Monday. The rally follows anti-government protests, whose opponents claim are being funded and instigated from abroad.

Around *30,000 people *came out in Macedonia’s capital, Skopje, to participate in a pro-Gruevski demonstration that gathered outside the parliament building. Some estimates put the number *as high as 90,000…* 

…Gruevski once again accused the opposition of getting its support from foreign entities: “Macedonia does not need a political leadership that places itself in the service of a foreign intelligence service…” 

…The massive show of support for the prime minister was in response to Sunday’s anti-government march in the capital, which saw over 20,000 people calling for Gruevski’s resignation…

*..Some analysts have also pointed to foreign connections when it comes to the opposition movement.* 

“Peeling back a layer we know that the organization of a protest does not happen on its own.* In this case we know much of the organization has been taking place by external forces, from NGOs that are originating from other countries. In this case, perhaps the US…*

READ MORE: http://rt.com/news/259849-macedonia-pro-government-rally/


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_Washington, aka "The Destroyer of Nations," is on the move again preparing a regime change in Macedonia which is not following the US/NATO agenda. As soon as Macedonia began cooperating with Russia on the Turkish Stream Pipeline through its country and Greece civil disturbance led by Muslim Albanian radicals began.

Any nation that wishes to follow its own course and direct its own destiny had better be prepared for what is happening in Ukraine and now starting in Macedonia. When Washington is unable to convince a nation diplomatically, it resorts to "color revolutions" and violence as evidenced by the myriad regime changes engineered by the US over the decades.

- Mike

_
US Seeks to Wreck Macedonia to Satisfy Its Ambitions in EU Energy Market

14:31 21.05.2015 (updated 14:57 21.05.2015) 









U.S. backed Albanian Muslim Macedonian Liberation Army has been involved in shootouts with Macedonian police killing 8 officers in one battle.

The Turkish Stream pipeline, proposed by Russia, is expected to pass through the territory of Macedonia. *The US seeks to prevent it and stage a coup in the country, at the same time promoting the Trans Adriatic Pipeline *- the energy project that would enable gas supplies from the allied Azerbaijan and decrease EU’s energy dependence on Russia.

The unrest in Macedonia plays into the hands of the US which seeks to prevent gas transports from Russia to Europe and is planning to promote another pipeline project, enabling transports of natural gas from the allied Azerbaijan, Deutsche Witrschafts Nachrichten reported.

The construction of the alternative Trans Adriatic Pipeline (TAP) started in 2015. The Turkish Stream is a direct competitor to TAP, which is expected to transport Azerbaijani gas from the Caspian Sea to Europe.

If the TAP project succeeds, the US will have an enormous controlling influence over the gas supplies to Europe as Azerbaijan closely cooperates with NATO and is allied with the US politically, militarily and economically, the article said.

According to the Azerbaijani newspaper Yeni Musavat, the United States is worried about the participation of Greece in the Turkish stream project. *The unrest in Macedonia gives the US a chance to stage a coup and establish a pro-Western government in Macedonia,* whose Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski maintains friendly relations with Russia and supports the construction of the Turkish Stream pipeline.

*The US ambassador to Macedonia, Jess L. Baily, has already publicly supported the Macedonian opposition leader Zoran Zaev, who is well-known among the Macedonian population as a "man of America".*

According to Serbian political scientist Dusan Prorokovic,* as soon as Macedonia started to build relations with Russia, the situation in the country suddenly radicalized*, as the West certainly did not like the steps taken by Gruevski's government.

The events in Macedonia are the beginning of a wave, which will be directed against all those countries in Europe that support the Turkish Stream project, the Azerbaijani newspaper Yeni Musavat wrote.

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150521/1022409879.html


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

*CROSSTALK: POROSHENKO'S DILEMMA*

The recent high-level meetings between Russian and American officials in Sochi created a media and diplomatic buzz. It appears Washington actually does want to talk to Moscow – and may even be willing to work together on a number of international issues again. Does that include Ukraine as well? 

CrossTalking with Mark Sleboda and Xavier Moreau.


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## Batko10 (Sep 10, 2013)

_Despite the fact that Punkhead never thanked me for keeping his thread in the top ten for over a year, I have a post that is apropos to the topic of "Eastern Europe" and should generate some interest. *And, it has absolutely nothing to do with Russia or Ukraine!
*
Apparently, the EU thinks it can order member states to do whatever its version of the "Politburo" deems necessary regardless of the feelings and wishes of the member country. The latest dictatorial move by the leaders of the EU tyranny is to force member states to take in unwanted immigrants from Muslim countries in Africa.

They may be able to get away with this crap in the pussy states of Western Europe and Scandanavia, but Slavs are not going to put up with this bullshit. Ordering Slavic countries to take in illegal immigrants from Muslim countries in Africa is a pretty good way to eventually see the break up of the EU as the latest riots against illegal immigration in Bratislava seem to indicate. Poland and the Czech Republic also officially voiced their opposition to being forced to take in unwanted immigrants.

We need some of this here in the U.S. instead of thinking up ways to reward illegal immigrants who break the law and spit in the faces of those who are trying to immigrate to the U.S. via proper, legal channels!

- Mike_

Mass arrests after thousands rally against immigration in Bratislava

Bratislava (AFP) - At least 140 people were arrested Saturday after violence broke out at an anti-immigration rally in Bratislava attended by thousands of people in protest at EU quotas on migrant numbers, local media said.

The rally, organised by an anti-Islam group called Stop the Islamisation of Europe, drew nearly 10,000 people, according to Slovakian media. Police declined to give an estimate.

Scuffles erupted between small groups of demonstrators and police at the end of the rally, leading to 140 arrests, the country's TASR news agency reported, citing local police sources. Six police cars were damaged in the unrest.

Earlier, at least one protester was taken into custody after using tear gas against the police, and some in the crowd were seen shredding a blue EU flag offered by one of the speakers.

On Friday, Prime Minister Robert Fico and his counterparts from neighbouring* Czech Republic, Hungary and Poland affirmed that their countries were against quotas on refugee numbers imposed by the EU.*


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