# Cornette accurately and hilariously reviews AEW



## NathanMayberry (Oct 11, 2019)

Jim Cornette reviews AEW Dynamite Jan 28 2020. Untrained garbage wrestlers - Embed


Watch this embedded Streamable video.




streamable.com





He catches things a casual wouldn't even notice. I'd love if he did this weekly.


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## RBrooks (Oct 18, 2013)

Saw "Untrained garbage wrestlers" headline. Not interested. 

I'm not familiar what Cornette usually does, but I assume he's bashing AEW a lot, so why even give the whore attention. "Untrained garbage wrestlers"... really? that desperate?


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## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

Cornette critique is just attention whoring these days. He gon die miserable.


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## domotime2 (Apr 28, 2014)

the critques arent that bad and annoying. I'm a big time AEW fan boy and yeah, Big swoll vs rose was the drizzling shits. And the stuff at the end looked bad too.

Too harsh on Kip Sabian, i think he looks like a C level heel from WCW 1995 (underneath guy). I think Janella blows.

Too harsh on the "missed punches", come on now.


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## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

domotime2 said:


> the critques arent that bad and annoying. I'm a big time AEW fan boy and yeah, Big swoll vs rose was the drizzling shits. And the stuff at the end looked bad too.
> 
> Too harsh on Kip Sabian, i think he looks like a C level heel from WCW 1995 (underneath guy). I think Janella blows.
> 
> Too harsh on the "missed punches", come on now.


Swole and Nyla dat dropkick was the only thing wrong.

The rest of Corny's critique is attention whoring.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Cornette is usually right on the money. I think he was too nice about the stuff with The Bucks and even the Moxley promo, which I thought was filler at best this week.


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## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

Some of his criticisms of modern wrestling tropes that are dumb and illogical are entertaining and I enjoy that aspect, but I HATE most of the rest of his bullshit. This week he said of Moxley that he loved the promo, loved the character, but admits to hating Moxley because he willingly takes part in hardcore matches. So Moxley is great, but I'm going to hold shit against him that isn't even currently relevant?

I'm glad AEW's existence gives him lots to talk about every week for his fans tho. Without a host to feed from a parasite would die pretty quickly.


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## The Masked Avenger (Apr 18, 2018)

I could care less what Cornette, Bischoff and Russo have to say. They haven't been relevant in decades.


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## LongPig666 (Mar 27, 2019)

NathanMayberry said:


> He catches things a casual wouldn't even notice.


That isn't hard. Casuals wouldn't know the difference between shit and shoe polish!


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> I could care less what Cornette, Bischoff and Russo have to say. They haven't been relevant in decades.


So you do care about what they have to say? Not usually a grammar nazi but if you could care less that means you do care a bit


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## Hangman (Feb 3, 2017)

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> I could care less what Cornette, Bischoff and Russo have to say. They haven't been relevant in decades.


COULDN'T. You COULDN'T care less.


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## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

RBrooks said:


> Saw "Untrained garbage wrestlers" headline. Not interested.
> 
> I'm not familiar what Cornette usually does, but I assume he's bashing AEW a lot, so why even give the whore attention. "Untrained garbage wrestlers"... really? that desperate?


He actually said AEW was better than NXT this week, so I guess he is crazy based on people's quickness to judge his comments without hearing or reading them.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

It's funny to see such a turn on Cornette. He's been a harsh critic for a long damn time and he was loved for it. But now that he's went from "HHH is the guy who works with the guy" and Russo rants to harshly critiquing The Elite, suddenly he's an old out of touch asshole lol.


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

Cornette has a deeply personal issue with Kenny Omega and The Young Bucks. Also, he's a career heel. I think as long as you keep those things in mind, his commentaries are fun to watch


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## Christopher Near (Jan 16, 2019)

K4L318 said:


> Cornette critique is just attention whoring these days. He gon die miserable.


Don't get worked


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## Christopher Near (Jan 16, 2019)

RapShepard said:


> It's funny to see such a turn on Cornette. He's been a harsh critic for a long damn time and he was loved for it. But now that he's went from "HHH is the guy who works with the guy" and Russo rants to harshly critiquing The Elite, suddenly he's an old out of touch asshole lol.


I was watching his Russo shoots. Funny how people dont seem to mind him wishing death on Russo (some even find it funny) but once he does it to their favourites cornette is just a grumpy old man


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## RBrooks (Oct 18, 2013)

reyfan said:


> He actually said AEW was better than NXT this week, so I guess he is crazy based on people's quickness to judge his comments without hearing or reading them.


Maybe, I didn't care enough to check it out. I'm not interested in his opinion on anything really, anyway, nor do I care whether AEW is better than NXT or not. Seems like we have more than enough Cornette threads these days.


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## Nothing Finer (Apr 12, 2017)

NathanMayberry said:


> Jim Cornette reviews AEW Dynamite Jan 28 2020. Untrained garbage wrestlers - Embed
> 
> 
> Watch this embedded Streamable video.
> ...


He does. He has a segment where he buries it every week on The Jim Cornette Experience and he also buries it at every opportunity on Jim Cornette's Drive-Thru. He also helpfully cuts up the segments and puts them on his YouTube channel with some funny artwork.









Official Jim Cornette


All audio & artwork is original, exclusive to this YouTube channel & under copyright. The Official Channel for full length episodes & clips from Jim Cornette...




www.youtube.com


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Christopher Near said:


> I was watching his Russo shoots. Funny how people dont seem to mind him wishing death on Russo (some even find it funny) but once he does it to their favourites cornette is just a grumpy old man


Right, it's clear the issue isn't him being grumpy, but who his targets these days are.


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## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

Geeee said:


> Cornette has a deeply personal issue with Kenny Omega and The Young Bucks.


He just doesn't like the flip flop modern wrestling. Neither does Jr. Or half the Wrestling community.


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## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> I could care less what Cornette, Bischoff and Russo have to say. They haven't been relevant in decades.


Yeah but atleast Russo wants AEW to succeed. Cornet gets up in arms about any promotion that gets bigger than his precious Smokey Mountain Wrestling.


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## Bloody Warpath (Jan 6, 2020)

That dropkick really had me scratching my head trying to figure how just how exactly that had happened. Also, Nyla ducking before Swole threw he clothesline was a bad look as well. I'll also throw out Ortiz? Was it Ortiz? Holding the rope, bent over just waiting for the spot to happen. He is just calling out what wrestling Twitter ends up making GIFs of. It is not just AEW that he does this with though, he does that with wrestling in general.


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## Wridacule (Aug 23, 2018)

I think jim is as objective as he can be given the circumstances. A lot of things that go on in modern wrestling is the exact opposite of the do's and don'ts that he followed to make his living. 

While I disagree with his opinion on my main man, I can be objective and laugh at his rants. I find jim very entertaining and i never miss a drive through


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## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

K4L318 said:


> Swole and Nyla dat dropkick was the only thing wrong.
> 
> The rest of Corny's critique is attention whoring.


Nah. Nyla in particular moves incredibly slow and in a telegraphed manner. She doesn't seem capable of providing suspension of disbelief. I've seen just as bad in WWE and NXT's women's divisions. It's a big problem in general. Takes you right out of it.


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## Alright_Mate (Jul 21, 2014)

Saw that vid pop up on my twitter the other day, Cornette is an absolute asshole but with AEW he makes some very valid points.

So many matches in AEW are littered with mistakes or tacky garbage Indy style spots. I really hoped they wouldn't fall into the life of "Indy Wrestling" but as the weeks go by AEW just feels like a televised version of PWG.

Aside from 5-6 names their roster is absolutely garbage with so many green workers or spot monkeys, videos like that just prove it.


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## roadkill_ (Jan 28, 2010)

Cult03 said:


> So you do care about what they have to say? Not usually a grammar nazi but if you could care less that means you do care a bit





Hangman said:


> COULDN'T. You COULDN'T care less.


Ugh. There's always some fuck from England coming in to 'correct' this American idiom, claiming it to be a misnomer. Let's get this straight once and for all:

*"I could care less"*

... infers that the subject *could easily care less*. I _could_ care less.

*"I could give a shit"*

... I could _easily _give a *shit*. I.e. readily available to offer contempt.


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## HelloSir (Dec 11, 2019)

RBrooks said:


> Saw "Untrained garbage wrestlers" headline. Not interested.
> 
> I'm not familiar what Cornette usually does, but I assume he's bashing AEW a lot, so why even give the whore attention. "Untrained garbage wrestlers"... really? that desperate?


He's not wrong. Much of their roster consist of unproven spot monkeys that got a job because they're friends with The Elite. Some of them seem to forget, or were never taught the basic concept of addressing the hard camera during promos. How the fuck is that a trained professional?


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

roadkill_ said:


> Ugh. There's always some fuck from England coming in to 'correct' this American idiom, claiming it to be a misnomer. Let's get this straight once and for all:
> 
> *"I could care less"*
> 
> ...


You just proved their point.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Cornette's podcasts are always entertaining even if I disagree with him. They are must listen every week. I did see this week he and Dave have been going at it on Twitter over Kenny and the Bucks. I am mostly on Cornette's side here as Dave has said that Kenny has amazing drawing power in the US and somehow is better than Flair. For me, Dave lost credibility the moment he said a Young Bucks match needed more stars than any match ever done by Flair, Hart, Benoit, Eddie, Steamboat, etc. And to top it off, he said the NJPW storylines with Kenny had some cerebral psychology that was better than Flair or Hart and if you did not see it, it just went over your head.


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## K4L318 (Nov 12, 2014)

Lheurch said:


> Cornette's podcasts are always entertaining even if I disagree with him. They are must listen every week. I did see this week he and Dave have been going at it on Twitter over Kenny and the Bucks. I am mostly on Cornette's side here as Dave has said that Kenny has amazing drawing power in the US and somehow is better than Flair. For me, Dave lost credibility the moment he said a Young Bucks match needed more stars than any match ever done by Flair, Hart, Benoit, Eddie, Steamboat, etc. And to top it off, he said the NJPW storylines with Kenny had some cerebral psychology that was better than Flair or Hart and if you did not see it, it just went over your head.


Flair and Hart were overrated matches. The psychology in those matches were punches, back breakers and suplexes. It dont go over ya head, its just ya childhood overrates it cuz it touched ya.


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## qntntgood (Mar 12, 2010)

Lheurch said:


> Cornette's podcasts are always entertaining even if I disagree with him. They are must listen every week. I did see this week he and Dave have been going at it on Twitter over Kenny and the Bucks. I am mostly on Cornette's side here as Dave has said that Kenny has amazing drawing power in the US and somehow is better than Flair. For me, Dave lost credibility the moment he said a Young Bucks match needed more stars than any match ever done by Flair, Hart, Benoit, Eddie, Steamboat, etc. And to top it off, he said the NJPW storylines with Kenny had some cerebral psychology that was better than Flair or Hart and if you did not see it, it just went over your head.


I'm surprised no one has figured, this dave is shill who plays both side's.but then again so is buddy cornette.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

K4L318 said:


> Flair and Hart were overrated matches. The psychology in those matches were punches, back breakers and suplexes. It dont go over ya head, its just ya childhood overrates it cuz it touched ya.


Are you...kidding? Bret Hart had poor ring psychology? Just curious, who would be on your list of people with good ring psychology?


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

qntntgood said:


> I'm surprised no one has figured, this dave is shill who plays both side's.but then again so is buddy cornette.


I think Cornette says exactly what is on his mind whether it will anger people or not. He has been friends with Dave for decades and defended him against a lot of people who attack him (Bruce Prichard, Eric Bischoff, etc) but he has no problem criticizing him when he is wrong. Like I said, I disagree with Cornette on plenty of stuff, but I respect that he speaks his mind and does not shill to get sponsors or business connections like many other podcasters do.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

RapShepard said:


> It's funny to see such a turn on Cornette. He's been a harsh critic for a long damn time and he was loved for it. But now that he's went from "HHH is the guy who works with the guy" and Russo rants to harshly critiquing The Elite, suddenly he's an old out of touch asshole lol.


Never been a fan, even if I agree with him in principle.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

bdon said:


> Never been a fan, even if I agree with him in principle.


I can feel that, he is very easy to dislike. I'm more so talking his general appeal beforehand


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Geeee said:


> Cornette has a deeply personal issue with Kenny Omega and The Young Bucks. Also, he's a career heel. I think as long as you keep those things in mind, his commentaries are fun to watch


I must admit that I haven't listened to a lot of him but his latest podcasts have given credit to AEW where it's deserved. With Kenny he complains about his spirit fingers, which is fair because they are stupid and the Bucks doing unnecessary shit and that's also fair. I thought he was going to be much more critical of the product but he was fine


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## The_It_Factor (Aug 14, 2012)

RapShepard said:


> It's funny to see such a turn on Cornette. He's been a harsh critic for a long damn time and he was loved for it. But now that he's went from "HHH is the guy who works with the guy" and Russo rants to harshly critiquing The Elite, suddenly he's an old out of touch asshole lol.


You posted it before I could lol. The smart marks used to jizz on themselves when he’d shoot on Russo or “TRIPLE HGH!!”, but now he’s apparently just going too far by talking about AEW lol. It’s comical


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## RBrooks (Oct 18, 2013)

HelloSir said:


> He's not wrong. Much of their roster consist of unproven spot monkeys that got a job because they're friends with The Elite. *Some of them seem to forget, or were never taught the basic concept of addressing the hard camera during promos.* How the fuck is that a trained professional?


I'd like to watch some examples of that, because I don't remember such thing. Who does that? I skip Dark Order and Britt Baker promos, so maybe you mean some of them.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

The_It_Factor said:


> You posted it before I could lol. The smart marks used to jizz on themselves when he’d shoot on Russo or “TRIPLE HGH!!”, but now he’s apparently just going too far by talking about AEW lol. It’s comical


It's obvious that's what the real issue is, dudes talks just like he always has and has the same wrestling views he always did.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

MontyCora said:


> Some of his criticisms of modern wrestling tropes that are dumb and illogical are entertaining and I enjoy that aspect, but I HATE most of the rest of his bullshit. This week he said of Moxley that he loved the promo, loved the character, but admits to hating Moxley because he willingly takes part in hardcore matches. So Moxley is great, but I'm going to hold shit against him that isn't even currently relevant?
> 
> I'm glad AEW's existence gives him lots to talk about every week for his fans tho. Without a host to feed from a parasite would die pretty quickly.


Yes, because you can't trust the guy's instincts to deliver. The hardcore shit is the stuff he does when left to his own devices in main events, and it's off-putting and destroys the emotional involvement you can put into his programs. 

If you knew that someone was always going to use too much teeth every time they tried to suck your dick, would you keep letting them give you a blowjob? 



Geeee said:


> Cornette has a deeply personal issue with Kenny Omega and The Young Bucks. Also, he's a career heel. I think as long as you keep those things in mind, his commentaries are fun to watch


I hear the personal grudge thing brought up all the time, and I understand why -- it's a convenient way to offset Cornette's criticisms and labelling them as "invalid." But Cornette compliments the talents of plenty of people he's not fans of personally. Kevin Owens, Sami Zayn and Austin Aries immediately come to mind. His criticisms of Omega and The Bucks comes from their lack of psychology and inability to fundamentally work. They've got great athletics but don't know how to tell a proper story and convince people that they're actually in a real struggle. 

That's a valid criticism. 



TKO Wrestling said:


> Yeah but atleast Russo wants AEW to succeed. Cornet gets up in arms about any promotion that gets bigger than his precious Smokey Mountain Wrestling.


Well that's just not true. 



Lheurch said:


> Cornette's podcasts are always entertaining even if I disagree with him. They are must listen every week. I did see this week he and Dave have been going at it on Twitter over Kenny and the Bucks. I am mostly on Cornette's side here as Dave has said that Kenny has amazing drawing power in the US and somehow is better than Flair. For me, Dave lost credibility the moment he said a Young Bucks match needed more stars than any match ever done by Flair, Hart, Benoit, Eddie, Steamboat, etc. And to top it off, he said the NJPW storylines with Kenny had some cerebral psychology that was better than Flair or Hart and if you did not see it, it just went over your head.


Oh man, that is going to make an amazing listen this week. Dave has gone to some pretty outlandish places to defend some of AEW's decisions. Comparing Marko Stunt to Rey Mysterio and Little Bruiser had to be the best. 



K4L318 said:


> Flair and Hart were overrated matches. The psychology in those matches were punches, back breakers and suplexes. It dont go over ya head, its just ya childhood overrates it cuz it touched ya.


Well, this betrays a lot about what AEW fanboys think.


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## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

I love listening to Cornette cause hes hilarious but most of his views are completely insane. 

He also clearly has a vendetta against Kenny and The Bucks that seems deeply personal.


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## MoxAsylum (Jan 9, 2020)

Never have liked Cornette, he’s a loudmouthed douche bag


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Wood said:


> Oh man, that is going to make an amazing listen this week. Dave has gone to some pretty outlandish places to defend some of AEW's decisions. Comparing Marko Stunt to Rey Mysterio and Little Bruiser had to be the best.


Yeah, I really do not get it. Jim says basic, really basic stuff and people freak out. I mean, has AEW treated Kenny like a star? Absolutely not. Have the Young Bucks flipped and flopped and managed to be the worst tag team presented on an AEW screen? I think objectively so. Some of us actually want an alternative to WWE PG Cena silliness and we are not going to settle for middle school humor.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

MoxAsylum said:


> Never have liked Cornette, he’s a loudmouthed douche bag


Literally the character he has played on TV for over 30 years.


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

I mean, people can say and think whatever they want regarding Cornette and his thoughts (I certainly don't agree with everything he says), but his views have always remained consistent, that much is a fact.

He actually preferred AEW this week compared to NXT, so I'm not sure how anyone can really complain.


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## shadows123 (Jan 30, 2017)

I do like listening to Cornette actually.. Some of his points he makes are quite valid criticism and could possibly be one of the reasons why wrestling is not as popular as before... He is also quite consistent on his criticism... While he is quite right picking out on the young bucks and kenny omega for having failings which are quite correct, they do deserve some credit for what they have accomplished so far despite having no WWE exposure...I mean which Indy guys from the past have done what these guys have.. He also criticises Marko Stunt (for being small enough to wrestle in a ring) and Luchasaurus (for being a big man who does not do power moves) even though the Jurassic express are quite popular with the live audience despite being green... But i would not say he is rubbish overall, he is much more entertaining and better opinionated than say Dave meltzer for example and is consistent in his dislike for crash tv.


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## Jay Devito (Dec 1, 2019)

I enjoy listening to Cornette and I don't think he is bias in his opinion at all. I think he calls it how he sees it. He doesn't shit on every single aspect of the show. He gives credit when it's due.

AEW and modern wrestling as a whole just really is THAT much of a laughing stock.


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## Jazminator (Jan 9, 2018)

"Accurately"? It all depends on whether you agree with Cornette or not.

Like I always say, Jim Cornette is a tremendous wrestling historian and storyteller. That alone makes his podcast worth listening to. But his opinions are simply that: opinions. They don't carry more weight than any other observer. And in the end, all that matters is what _YOU_ think. If you don't like AEW for whatever reason, that's fine. I enjoy AEW tremendously and watch everything they put out.


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## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

He also shit all over the Orton Edge segment too. Dude calls it like he sees it.


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## Garty (Jul 29, 2007)

He's unemployed for a reason. He's failed in his business operations. He's failed at running a promotion. Anything he says is laughable. Cornette is like Lawler, in the way he uses old tired jokes and being out of touch with modern wrestling. Jim Ross is also guilty of being out of touch with modern wrestling.

Nothing is going to bring back his opinions of what is "smart" booking, old ideologies and ways of thinking. It's like his brain is permanently stuck in the late-70's to mid-80's, southern-style wrestling, all of which died a long time ago. It's time for him to let it go as well.


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## Brodus Clay (Jan 6, 2012)

Cornette also praises Rollins even had the audacity to say he could be a Hollywood star when hes done with wrestling lol...after that I can't take him seriously, hes just some humorous commenter at this point for me that has a chip with AEW.

*Jim: “Kenny wrestled a little girl! The Bucks superkicked a kid! They’re disgraces for the business! Seth Rollins would never do anything like that!” *




*4:56 Gets asked about Rollins doing softcore fetish wrestling videos and is sent link for proof .
Jim: “What’s it say about you that you know about that stuff? Anyway, Seth is great.”*


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Garty said:


> He's unemployed for a reason. He's failed in his business operations. He's failed at running a promotion. Anything he says is laughable. Cornette is like Lawler, in the way he uses old tired jokes and being out of touch with modern wrestling. Jim Ross is also guilty of being out of touch with modern wrestling.
> 
> Nothing is going to bring back his opinions of what is "smart" booking, old ideologies and ways of thinking. It's like his brain is permanently stuck in the late-70's to mid-80's, southern-style wrestling, all of which died a long time ago. It's time for him to let it go as well.


He runs his own business, and is successful. He has been successful for over 30 years in the business. He is also completely insane but it works for him. No one is going to be talking about the Bucks in 30 years other than in jokes. Lawler is more relevant in wrestling history than anyone in AEW will ever be and that is not a criticism of AEW. I do not agree with Cornette on everything, but he is exactly correct on the video game nonsense the Bucks do.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Brodus Clay said:


> Cornette also praises Rollins even had the audacity to say he could be a Hollywood star when hes done with wrestling lol...after that I can't take him seriously, hes just some humorous commenter at this point for me that has a chip with AEW.
> 
> *Jim: “Kenny wrestled a little girl! The Bucks superkicked a kid! They’re disgraces for the business! Seth Rollins would never do anything like that!” *
> 
> ...


But certain people here will still say he’s unbiased andcorrect.


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## Garty (Jul 29, 2007)

Brodus Clay said:


> Cornette also praises Rollins even had the audacity to say he could be a Hollywood star when hes done with wrestling lol...after that I can't take him seriously, hes just some humorous commenter at this point for me that has a chip with AEW.
> 
> *Jim: “Kenny wrestled a little girl! The Bucks superkicked a kid! They’re disgraces for the business! Seth Rollins would never do anything like that!” *
> 
> ...


Believe me, I'm 100% positive, that once he finished recording that show, he locked himself in a room, watching said videos.

Remember that kid a few years ago in an online video, where he was still feeling the effects of his sedative from his Dental visit, asking, "Is this real life?" That's the same world that Cornette lives in.


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## Garty (Jul 29, 2007)

Lheurch said:


> He runs his own business, and is successful. He has been successful for over 30 years in the business. He is also completely insane but it works for him. No one is going to be talking about the Bucks in 30 years other than in jokes. Lawler is more relevant in wrestling history than anyone in AEW will ever be and that is not a criticism of AEW. I do not agree with Cornette on everything, but he is exactly correct on the video game nonsense the Bucks do.


No one talks about the Midnight Express or The Heavenly Bodies today either, so...? He may have been successful in that moment, but he left behind a "stench" on everything he touched. I said that Lawler was out of touch with today's wrestling scene, just as JR is in AEW. Have you listened to their commentary on their respective shows? They're both "lost" at times. I compared Lawler's "schtick" to that of Cornette's, where they both talk about the good ol' days and using references that are outdated and unfunny. The only difference is that Cornette has a podcast and Lawler does not. May I ask, does Cornette shit on the "real-life superhero", the "videogame come to life", Ricochet? I don't know, I'm asking.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Jazminator said:


> "Accurately"? It all depends on whether you agree with Cornette or not.
> 
> Like I always say, Jim Cornette is a tremendous wrestling historian and storyteller. That alone makes his podcast worth listening to. But his opinions are simply that: opinions. They don't carry more weight than any other observer. And in the end, all that matters is what _YOU_ think. If you don't like AEW for whatever reason, that's fine. I enjoy AEW tremendously and watch everything they put out.


Some opinions have more of a base in reality and facts. Some people are just smarter. You've really got to stretch reality to find fault with any of the reasonable points Cornette brings up. 



Garty said:


> He's unemployed for a reason. He's failed in his business operations. He's failed at running a promotion. Anything he says is laughable. Cornette is like Lawler, in the way he uses old tired jokes and being out of touch with modern wrestling. Jim Ross is also guilty of being out of touch with modern wrestling.
> 
> Nothing is going to bring back his opinions of what is "smart" booking, old ideologies and ways of thinking. It's like his brain is permanently stuck in the late-70's to mid-80's, southern-style wrestling, all of which died a long time ago. It's time for him to let it go as well.


Lol, pretty sure Cornette's business is doing fine. Another hot take from Smarty Garty.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Garty said:


> No one talks about the Midnight Express or The Heavenly Bodies today either, so...? He may have been successful in that moment, but he left behind a "stench" on everything he touched. I said that Lawler was out of touch with today's wrestling scene, just as JR is in AEW. Have you listened to their commentary on their respective shows? They're both "lost" at times. I compared Lawler's "schtick" to that of Cornette's, where they both talk about the good ol' days and using references that are outdated and unfunny. The only difference is that Cornette has a podcast and Lawler does not. May I ask, does Cornette shit on the "real-life superhero", the "videogame come to life", Ricochet? I don't know, I'm asking.


No one talks about the Midnight Express? Any serious conversation on top tag teams would include them and they are certainly mentioned a lot on this forum. No conversation about greatest manager of all time would happen without mentioning Cornette either (I am not saying you made an argument that it would not). What stench did he leave behind? He made a mistake in opening a wrestling company in what turned out to be a down time industry-wide. He added positively to every person/team he managed or was involved in.

I am not going to defend Lawler as a commentator in 2020 but I will say we all know Vince tells them what to say so I do not entirely blame him for the lack of quality. I am glad they are letting him be a heel again at least somewhat. I wish they would just let him run with it since he is one of the best heels of all time...kind of like Cornette. Lawler did have a podcast but stopped because his co-host turned out to be a shady con artist. As far as I know he started a new one with another guy.

For JR, he is one of the few things AEW has that helps give it legitimacy. I admit I forgive his mistakes out of a sense of nostalgia and the fact he lost his wife tragically less than two years ago. I listen to his podcast most weeks and he seems to really care for AEW to succeed. He does seem to be frustrated with the video game nonsense AEW does and I hope he is able to use his influence talk some sense into them. I enjoy his lines about how a wrestling match broke out and the tag matches that have nonstop moves without letting anyone take a breath and tell a story. Tony on the other hand I have been loving. He annoyed me back in the WCW days with his "the greatest night in the history of our sport" lines but he makes fun of himself for that back then and he seems to really be loving his role now.

I listen to both of Cornette's podcasts and the only time I remember him mentioning Ricochet was saying he was bad at promos, a good athlete, but flips a lot. That was like a year ago though. I do not think Jim watches RAW or Smackdown so likely does not know much about how much flipping he is doing every Monday.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Corny's stance on Ricochet is that he hates the choreographed shit he did with Will Ospreay, but is on record as saying both can work and that when he went to an indy show, it was Ricochet and Drew McIntyre that were the two guys that he saw that he told "you're the only two workers here." 

I'm sure he hates the phoney presentation of Ricochet on Raw, not that he watches. His idea was to put him in a mask and feud him against an asshole Kevin Owens. Sounded like a good program, actually, lol.


----------



## TerraRising (Aug 5, 2015)

The Wood said:


> Corny's stance on Ricochet is that he hates the choreographed shit he did with Will Ospreay, but is on record as saying both can work and that when he went to an indy show, it was Ricochet and Drew McIntyre that were the two guys that he saw that he told "you're the only two workers here."
> 
> I'm sure he hates the phoney presentation of Ricochet on Raw, not that he watches. His idea was to put him in a mask and feud him against an asshole Kevin Owens. Sounded like a good program, actually, lol.


Jimbo knows how to play to their strengths. His idea of Rey choosing a successor in a vignette set in an abandoned gym with a bloodstained ring in Tijuana sounds straight out of a Robert Rodriguez screenplay.


----------



## Jazminator (Jan 9, 2018)

The Wood said:


> Some opinions have more of a base in reality and facts. Some people are just smarter. You've really got to stretch reality to find fault with any of the reasonable points Cornette brings up.


It's all opinion based on likes and dislikes. Cornette doesn't like "flippy" stuff and cosplay, and that's fine. But if you enjoy those things, there's nothing wrong with that, either. To each his/her own.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Nothing Cornette thinks is accurate. Ever.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Beatles123 said:


> Nothing Cornette thinks is accurate. Ever.


Except for everything he says about the Bucks, Marko Stunt, Joey Janela, Chuck Taylor. I disagree with some of his stuff and agree with others. Just like most other human beings.


----------



## Jazminator (Jan 9, 2018)

Cornette and Meltzer are acting like babies now. It's actually quite symbolic of the toxic nature among wrestling fans on the Internet.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Lheurch said:


> Except for everything he says about the Bucks, Marko Stunt, Joey Janela, Chuck Taylor. I disagree with some of his stuff and agree with others. Just like most other human beings.


You feel differently than I and thats okay


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Beatles123 said:


> You feel differently than I and thats okay


Yeah, it is all good. Everyone likes different things. I just want to be entertained.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Lheurch said:


> Yeah, it is all good. Everyone likes different things. I just want to be entertained.


As do i. I regret that my entertainment would come at the cost of your own.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Beatles123 said:


> As do i. I regret that my entertainment would come at the cost of your own.


At least it seems there is enough on the show to entertain us both for now. I cannot think of anyone I agree with 100%.


----------



## Garty (Jul 29, 2007)

The Wood said:


> Corny's stance on Ricochet is that he hates the choreographed shit he did with Will Ospreay, but is on record as saying both can work and that when he went to an indy show, it was Ricochet and Drew McIntyre that were the two guys that he saw that he told "you're the only two workers here."
> 
> I'm sure he hates the phoney presentation of Ricochet on Raw, not that he watches. His idea was to put him in a mask and feud him against an asshole Kevin Owens. Sounded like a good program, actually, lol.


Hi Woodsy! Oh how I missed you. Yes, I'm back. Still haven't made 1000 posts in a month yet, huh? What's wrong Woodsy? You're almost there. I hope this post gets you over that threshold.

I'm glad you had Cornette's "naughty/nice" list and his personal viewing habits ready to debate. If he doesn't watch, what can he complain about? Hmm. Sounds like someone familiar, but I can't seem to put pen to paper, with the name. Ah, never mind then. Everything I've said about Cornette is true. Fact. Google it. They call him "Carny" for a reason. It's not only me saying that. Fact. Google it. The guy is permanently stuck in an 80's time-warp. Fact. Google it. He's more of a mark for himself and what he's done, than he is of any promotion. See, just like you, he has the same problem. Fact. Google it. Wax-on. Wax-off.

There's a reason his ideas don't resonate with fans today. Ricochet and McIntyre are better than Ospreay? You really think that putting Ricochet under a mask and feuding with Steen is a "good program"? Seriously? Of course you would. Um, I hate to tell you this, but it's already been done. _wink*wink_ I guess you've never heard of El Generico and Ring Of Honor? Fact. Google it. If you Cornette "supporters" agree with him and think wrestling is shitty today, how do you think it would look if Cornette was in charge of a promotion today, running an 80's-type show, with flashy neon outfits and a tennis racket, with over-the-top characters, goofy gimmick matches, boring mat wrestling and a bunch of old guys that don't know when to retire? Stop! You don't need to answer that question because the promotion would already be bankrupt. Fact. Google it.


----------



## CMPunkRock316 (Jan 17, 2016)

Cornette vs Russo was pretty funny for a bit.

Corny is like my dad and many people on his side of the family. White, liberal and racist as fuck. Him judging Moxley poorly based on him doing hardcore matches is just like someone with a very antiquated way of thinking about professional wrestling. Some of modern pro wrestling is not for me (so I get the critique) but I like AEW because I get a mix of things in each show and not shitty scripted promos. Corny will do the same shit politically that he does wrestling wise too. He did it with Khan giving money to Trump. Despite all this I don't hate Cornette I just think he is close minded on both wrestling and politics and needs to realize not every tag team match will be a Rock N Roll Express vs Midnight Express match.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Garty said:


> Hi Woodsy! Oh how I missed you. Yes, I'm back. Still haven't made 1000 posts in a month yet, huh? What's wrong Woodsy? You're almost there. I hope this post gets you over that threshold.
> 
> I'm glad you had Cornette's "naughty/nice" list and his personal viewing habits ready to debate. If he doesn't watch, what can he complain about? Hmm. Sounds like someone familiar, but I can't seem to put pen to paper, with the name. Ah, never mind then. Everything I've said about Cornette is true. Fact. Google it. They call him "Carny" for a reason. It's not only me saying that. Fact. Google it. The guy is permanently stuck in an 80's time-warp. Fact. Google it. He's more of a mark for himself and what he's done, than he is of any promotion. See, just like you, he has the same problem. Fact. Google it. Wax-on. Wax-off.
> 
> There's a reason his ideas don't resonate with fans today. Ricochet and McIntyre are better than Ospreay? You really think that putting Ricochet under a mask and feuding with Steen is a "good program"? Seriously? Of course you would. Um, I hate to tell you this, but it's already been done. _wink*wink_ I guess you've never heard of El Generico and Ring Of Honor? Fact. Google it. If you Cornette "supporters" agree with him and think wrestling is shitty today, how do you think it would look if Cornette was in charge of a promotion today, running an 80's-type show, with flashy neon outfits and a tennis racket, with over-the-top characters, goofy gimmick matches, boring mat wrestling and a bunch of old guys that don't know when to retire? Stop! You don't need to answer that question because the promotion would already be bankrupt. Fact. Google it.


Why so personal? Cornette is not right about everything, but he is right about a lot. Small gymnasts flipping and not selling is objectively bad wrestling. Also, El Generico is not Ricochet so not sure what you point was there.

I am happy to go through what I agree and disagree with Jim on if you want, but most of it is just opinion anyway. I like more of AEW than I dislike. Jim has praised things he likes in AEW as well. No one is going to like everything. Even the hardcore AEW marks on here complain about the Dark Order but in the same breath say those of us who complain about other things on the show are "haters." It is OK to hate some things but not others. It is so illogical.


----------



## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

Everything he said was spot on.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Lheurch said:


> Why so personal? Cornette is not right about everything, but he is right about a lot. Small gymnasts flipping and not selling is objectively bad wrestling. Also, El Generico is not Ricochet so not sure what you point was there.
> 
> I am happy to go through what I agree and disagree with Jim on if you want, but most of it is just opinion anyway. I like more of AEW than I dislike. Jim has praised things he likes in AEW as well. No one is going to like everything. Even the hardcore AEW marks on here complain about the Dark Order but in the same breath say those of us who complain about other things on the show are "haters." It is OK to hate some things but not others. It is so illogical.


I dunno about that, chief...I've been given hell by some pretty awful people here. The stench is on both sides of the spectrum.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Beatles123 said:


> I dunno about that, chief...I've been given hell by some pretty awful people here. The stench is on both sides of the spectrum.


There are certainly toxic people on all sides. I at least think I try to be objective and have a conversation with people I disagree with. Let me know if you think I am not.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Beatles123 said:


> I dunno about that, chief...I've been given hell by some pretty awful people here. The stench is on both sides of the spectrum.


After your little effort to spin what I said today, I actually think you'd take people being nice to you the wrong way.


----------



## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

Beatles123 said:


> Nothing Cornette thinks is accurate. Ever.


He said AEW was a better show than NXT last week and that the Bucks had a good match, I guess by that logic AEW was bad compared to NXT and the Bucks match was bad?


----------



## greasykid1 (Dec 22, 2015)

People visibly waiting for spots, ducking before punches are thrown, and throwing punches high because they aren't intended to make contact is NOT unique to these wrestlers that Jim is having a go at. You can see that happening in matches by just about anyone. I bet you could go back and find matches involving Jim's favourite wrestlers from 20 years ago, and see those exact same flaws in their wrestling.

The same goes for the goofy angles like the thing with Janella and Kip. Cornette has zero ground to stand on, with his involvement in the kind of bullshit that used to go down back in the day. I don't know about anyone else, but I find that spot with Jenella less cringeworthy than a team's manager coming to the ring with a tennis racket every match. I mean, at least this "making them both kiss me when they think they're kissing each other" thing only happened once!

All he's doing is picking out any flaw he can to try and get his agenda over, and hoping that most people listening will bindly agree with him, and not see the rampant hypocrisy in every word. Unfortunately, seems he's mostly right in his assessment of his idiot followers.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Lheurch said:


> There are certainly toxic people on all sides. I at least think I try to be objective and have a conversation with people I disagree with. Let me know if you think I am not.


You are not one of the people Im referring to.



Cult03 said:


> After your little effort to spin what I said today, I actually think you'd take people being nice to you the wrong way.


You aren't either. Chill.



reyfan said:


> He said AEW was a better show than NXT last week and that the Bucks had a good match, I guess by that logic AEW was bad compared to NXT and the Bucks match was bad?


He's gone past the point of having any validity for me on anything, It's okay if he hasn't for you. I do not respect him as a human being and that isn't changing.


----------



## SolarPowerBat (Nov 24, 2014)

He's someone who usually has nothing but negativity to contribute to any conversation and therefore not someone I'd put a whole deal of faith in when it comes to what he thinks is good or bad


----------



## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

I take half of what he says as just entertainment for entertainment sake, but I love listening to Cornette. 

Some people just don’t get what he’s trying to do.



TheMaskedAvenger said:


> I could care less what Cornette, Bischoff and Russo have to say. They haven't been relevant in decades.


That’s like saying you don’t care what Michael Jordan has to say about basketball.

Like it or not, wrestling probably wouldn’t exist anymore without those 3.

It certainly wouldn’t be popular.


----------



## McNugget (Aug 27, 2007)

Jim Cornette sucks, and his trash opinions enable the worst sort of gatekeeping that reasonable fans of this sport have been trying to break free of for decades.


----------



## The Masked Avenger (Apr 18, 2018)

IronMan8 said:


> That’s like saying you don’t care what Michael Jordan has to say about basketball.
> 
> Like it or not, wrestling probably wouldn’t exist anymore without those 3.
> 
> It certainly wouldn’t be popular.


I would have no problem listening to any of them talking about their era. However, the sport is not the same now as it was when those 3 were in their prime. 

Just like don't care about Jordan's criticisms about how basketball is played now compared to his day. All sports change and evolve over time. Most of the older generation don't like it when they look at their game and it's no longer the same.


----------



## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

Lheurch said:


> Except for everything he says about the Bucks, Marko Stunt, Joey Janela, Chuck Taylor. I disagree with some of his stuff and agree with others. Just like most other human beings.


What I don't enjoy about him is he'll shit on Marko Stunt, who objectively if you ignore his size is actually half-decent at what he's supposed to do, and then Corny will praise midget matches and laugh about them as "good silly humor." He goes HAAAAAARD in the point when he hates and criticizes something(Omega) to the point that it makes him feel super inconstent to me.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

MontyCora said:


> What I don't enjoy about him is he'll shit on Marko Stunt, who objectively if you ignore his size is actually half-decent at what he's supposed to do, and then Corny will praise midget matches and laugh about them as "good silly humor." He goes HAAAAAARD in the point when he hates and criticizes something(Omega) to the point that it makes him feel super inconstent to me.


Little people wrestling little people is fine. Marko Stunt wrestling grown adults is not. It's that simple


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Beatles123 said:


> Nothing Cornette thinks is accurate. Ever.


Well this is just a bad and immature take. 



Garty said:


> Hi Woodsy! Oh how I missed you. Yes, I'm back. Still haven't made 1000 posts in a month yet, huh? What's wrong Woodsy? You're almost there. I hope this post gets you over that threshold.
> 
> I'm glad you had Cornette's "naughty/nice" list and his personal viewing habits ready to debate. If he doesn't watch, what can he complain about? Hmm. Sounds like someone familiar, but I can't seem to put pen to paper, with the name. Ah, never mind then. Everything I've said about Cornette is true. Fact. Google it. They call him "Carny" for a reason. It's not only me saying that. Fact. Google it. The guy is permanently stuck in an 80's time-warp. Fact. Google it. He's more of a mark for himself and what he's done, than he is of any promotion. See, just like you, he has the same problem. Fact. Google it. Wax-on. Wax-off.
> 
> There's a reason his ideas don't resonate with fans today. Ricochet and McIntyre are better than Ospreay? You really think that putting Ricochet under a mask and feuding with Steen is a "good program"? Seriously? Of course you would. Um, I hate to tell you this, but it's already been done. _wink*wink_ I guess you've never heard of El Generico and Ring Of Honor? Fact. Google it. If you Cornette "supporters" agree with him and think wrestling is shitty today, how do you think it would look if Cornette was in charge of a promotion today, running an 80's-type show, with flashy neon outfits and a tennis racket, with over-the-top characters, goofy gimmick matches, boring mat wrestling and a bunch of old guys that don't know when to retire? Stop! You don't need to answer that question because the promotion would already be bankrupt. Fact. Google it.


You're obsessed with me. Get help. 

Almost none of the things you listed are facts, and I doubt you actually know what a fact is. 

I don't know why you're pulling Will Ospreay's name out of the ether here, but Cornette has been on the record as saying he can work too. But yes, McIntyre and Ricochet are probably "better." And yes, a masked Ricochet vs. Kevin Owens would have been much better than both guys floundering like they were at the time. El Generico is a completely different wrestler and gimmick, so not sure what you're trying to do there either. 

It kind of sounds like you're describing AEW at the end there. The neon colors? Over the top characters? Goofy gimmicks? Boring wrestling? An old guy that the top? It's a little ironic, don't you think? 

Cornette is not stuck in the 80s, by the way. That's a straw-man people use to dismiss him when he says he likes things to make sense and look realistic. Anyone who uses that line is pretty much just afraid of dealing with the truth. 



greasykid1 said:


> People visibly waiting for spots, ducking before punches are thrown, and throwing punches high because they aren't intended to make contact is NOT unique to these wrestlers that Jim is having a go at. You can see that happening in matches by just about anyone. I bet you could go back and find matches involving Jim's favourite wrestlers from 20 years ago, and see those exact same flaws in their wrestling.
> 
> The same goes for the goofy angles like the thing with Janella and Kip. Cornette has zero ground to stand on, with his involvement in the kind of bullshit that used to go down back in the day. I don't know about anyone else, but I find that spot with Jenella less cringeworthy than a team's manager coming to the ring with a tennis racket every match. I mean, at least this "making them both kiss me when they think they're kissing each other" thing only happened once!
> 
> All he's doing is picking out any flaw he can to try and get his agenda over, and hoping that most people listening will bindly agree with him, and not see the rampant hypocrisy in every word. Unfortunately, seems he's mostly right in his assessment of his idiot followers.


Being able to see through this shit is a pet peeve many have about modern wrestling, and a big reason why a lot of people don't entertain this shit anymore. The point of older wrestling was to convince people that it was a real struggle (work), and that has gone out the window now. 

Do you know the story of the tennis racket? It legitimately had a horse shoe in it, and I believe a chain at some point. The racket was also a shoot weapon that Cornette would use to whack fans that tried to get at him. There's nothing cringeworthy about it. 



MontyCora said:


> What I don't enjoy about him is he'll shit on Marko Stunt, who objectively if you ignore his size is actually half-decent at what he's supposed to do, and then Corny will praise midget matches and laugh about them as "good silly humor." He goes HAAAAAARD in the point when he hates and criticizes something(Omega) to the point that it makes him feel super inconstent to me.


Little people wrestling little people or humiliating a manager is one thing. When they beat up your regular sized/larger stars it's a problem.


----------



## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

Cult03 said:


> Little people wrestling little people is fine. Marko Stunt wrestling grown adults is not. It's that simple


Marko Stunt wrestling the guys from the Inner Circles tag team isn't NEARLY as bad as Brock fighting Rey. Marko is closer in weight and height to the guys who are bumping for him than Rey is to Lesnar.

EDIT: And before someone comes in here saying "Rey can fight Brock because of MUSCLES!" I've got news for you. Little guys aren't arm wrestling big guys. Little guys use Ranas and head scissors. You know what requires bodyweight momentum and not your muscles? RANAS AND HEAD SCISSORS. 

Muscles on Rey Mysterio is tits on a bull. It's good for him that he has them but none of his shit uses them.


----------



## greasykid1 (Dec 22, 2015)

The Wood said:


> Being able to see through this shit is a pet peeve many have about modern wrestling, and a big reason why a lot of people don't entertain this shit anymore. The point of older wrestling was to convince people that it was a real struggle (work), and that has gone out the window now.
> 
> Do you know the story of the tennis racket? It legitimately had a horse shoe in it, and I believe a chain at some point. The racket was also a shoot weapon that Cornette would use to whack fans that tried to get at him. There's nothing cringeworthy about it.


The thing is, I was a massive fan of Family Guy for the first several years. Then, it became a parody of itself and everything they did became over the top and obvious. So, you know what I did? I created a podcast that obnoxiously rips apart every new episode, and I went online, ranting profanity at everyone that still likes it.

... oh no, wait. Actually, I just stopped watching.

Cornette thinks that because he was involved in wrestling for a few years, he is now the expert on everything to do with the industry, even 10 year years after the industry left him behind. He is completely obsessed with the past - probably because he hasn't been relevant for a decade - and he totally is out of touch with the majority of modern wrestling and modern fans.

I don't have any time for people that continue to watch something they hate, just so they can spew that hate at those that still enjoy it.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

MontyCora said:


> Marko Stunt wrestling the guys from the Inner Circles tag team isn't NEARLY as bad as Brock fighting Rey. Marko is closer in weight and height to the guys who are bumping for him than Rey is to Lesnar.
> 
> EDIT: And before someone comes in here saying "Rey can fight Brock because of MUSCLES!" I've got news for you. Little guys aren't arm wrestling big guys. Little guys use Ranas and head scissors. You know what requires bodyweight momentum and not your muscles? RANAS AND HEAD SCISSORS.
> 
> Muscles on Rey Mysterio is tits on a bull. It's good for him that he has them but none of his shit uses them.


That is a completely backwards take. Wow. 



greasykid1 said:


> The thing is, I was a massive fan of Family Guy for the first several years. Then, it became a parody of itself and everything they did became over the top and obvious. So, you know what I did? I created a podcast that obnoxiously rips apart every new episode, and I went online, ranting profanity at everyone that still likes it.
> 
> ... oh no, wait. Actually, I just stopped watching.
> 
> ...


Ok boomer. That is you. Some people choose to criticize shit they want to enjoy but it doesn’t do it for them. That’s valid too.

Being figured in at a high level for 30 years is much more than a few years. Being taught and advised by Bill Watts, Jerry Jarrett, Jerry Lawler, Bill Dundee, Ernie Ladd, Ric Flair, Vince McMahon, Pat Patterson and Nick Bockwinkel is going to leave you with an idea how to do things. Studying history and understanding how wrestling works is useful too, especially if you’re someone that is clearly very intelligent and determined to learn.

Cornette is just off an acclaimed 2019 as a commentator and expert used on MLW, the NWA and Dark Side of the Ring. His podcasts seem to be doing well too. How is that not relevant? Because a bunch of geeks who like the people he criticizes say he isn’t?

The guy’s influence is still felt in the business too. The guys he’s helped train are still the biggest stars in wrestling, and two are growing stars in Hollywood. ROH is only around because he negotiated the sale to Sinclair. He’s also bound to do other things and be begged into something somewhere.


----------



## greasykid1 (Dec 22, 2015)

The Wood said:


> That is a completely backwards take. Wow.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LMFAO

"OK Boomer"

You're hilarious. TOTALLY won the whole internet with those 2 words. You're the BEST!
I didn't read the rest of your post.

Bye now.


----------



## BigCy (Nov 10, 2012)

Something that doesn't get mentioned a lot is that Cornette is a good story teller, the way you tell a story or make a point goes a long way in getting people to want to listen to what you have to say, he adds some humor and anecdotes also and this is another good storytelling device. He's good at talking and explaining and this makes people want to listen. Substance wise, I don't agree with half the stuff he says but the other half I wholeheartedly agree and think he is spot on, especially about elements of the business that should never change (telling a story, working a match, not overdoing finisher kickout spam, trying to at least look legit, etc. and things along that line.)


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

MontyCora said:


> What I don't enjoy about him is he'll shit on Marko Stunt, who objectively if you ignore his size is actually half-decent at what he's supposed to do, and then Corny will praise midget matches and laugh about them as "good silly humor." He goes HAAAAAARD in the point when he hates and criticizes something(Omega) to the point that it makes him feel super inconstent to me.


You cannot ignore Marko's size. There is a separate issue of all the 5'8 guys being in the world title hunt, but Marko is an extra level below that. There is a difference between tiny guy vs tiny guy and Marko getting in moves on The Lucha Brothers and your world champion. Inexcusable and not realistic in any sense. And it is not like Marko looks like a strong guy. He literally looks like a 12 year old boy who does a really stupid dance.

As I also said, I do not agree with everything Cornette says. I only partially agree with him on Omega. He did stupid things wrestling the child and the blowup doll, but I am easier to forgive the past than Cornette is. As long as he does not do stupid stuff in AEW that is OK. He has presented himself as a midcarder in AEW, not some top guy so I am not going to say he sucks, but he definitely is not some industry changing better than Flair guy either as Melzer claims. Nothing like that has been presented on AEW's show.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

MontyCora said:


> Marko Stunt wrestling the guys from the Inner Circles tag team isn't NEARLY as bad as Brock fighting Rey. Marko is closer in weight and height to the guys who are bumping for him than Rey is to Lesnar.
> 
> EDIT: And before someone comes in here saying "Rey can fight Brock because of MUSCLES!" I've got news for you. Little guys aren't arm wrestling big guys. Little guys use Ranas and head scissors. You know what requires bodyweight momentum and not your muscles? RANAS AND HEAD SCISSORS.
> 
> Muscles on Rey Mysterio is tits on a bull. It's good for him that he has them but none of his shit uses them.


He had rollup attempts on their world champ. That is bad. At least Mysterio is a once in a generation fantastic worker so you can kind of believe it. Marko is a horrible worker in addition to looking like he is 12.

But I want to make it clear I was just as against Brock and Rey working a competitive match as I am with Marko working any kind of match. I love Rey Mysterio and always enjoyed him in WCW and most of what he did in WWE, but letting him be WWE Champ in 2006 was inexcusable too. I said so at the time and I say it again now. He never should have beet the guys he did back then and had no business being in the ring with Brock in something other than a squash.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

greasykid1 said:


> The thing is, I was a massive fan of Family Guy for the first several years. Then, it became a parody of itself and everything they did became over the top and obvious. So, you know what I did? I created a podcast that obnoxiously rips apart every new episode, and I went online, ranting profanity at everyone that still likes it.
> 
> ... oh no, wait. Actually, I just stopped watching.
> 
> ...


A few years? He has been involved since he was a teenager. He was doing commentary for MLW and NWA within the past year and was mostly praised for it other than telling a dumb joke he also told in 1995. He is regarded by most fans as the best or second best manager of all time and one of the best color commentators so he is objectively still relevant.

Like I have said many times, name me one person you agree with 100%. There is no one. No one is forcing you to listen to Jim's podcasts so he gets to have his opinion. There is plenty of stuff Jim says that I do not agree with. He just happens to be 100% correct on the Bucks, Marko, and several other aspects of AEW. He even said the Bucks has a decent match last week with B&B since they were not going to be able to flip around with them. The dozens of fans lining up at the high school gym to see short, not in shape dudes flip and hit each other with light tubes are the ones out of touch with reality and wrestling.

And again, he does not hate AEW! He praises plenty of stuff they do. He likes Cody. He likes Adam Page. He even liked the Bucks match last week! How do people on here still believe he watches it just to hate it? It is simply objectively untrue. Most people on here who call some of us haters themselves criticize the Dark Order and Nightmare Collective. This "Hate is OK for me but not for thee" hypocrisy is hilarious.


----------



## Seth Grimes (Jul 31, 2015)

AEW fans are so damn sensitive. First couple of comments on this post, "ugh, he said AEW has crappy wrestlers. I haven't watched it, but I know AEW is perfect, so Cornette is washed up! (forget last week when I said that he was hilarious after his rant about how bad WWE is)".


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

As much as I enjoy listening to Jim at times his latest rant on Meltzer/Omega/AEW just really comes off badly. His personal vendetta particularly against Kenny and The Bucks has consumed him and really even has made his views seem very shortsided. 

Meltzer came up around the same time as Cornette and they are around the same age with the same incredible knowledge of old time wrestling but yet 1 understands how the business has changed and 1 just cant get past it. Even now he talks about how AEW has and is failing and its complete nonsense, they might not be serving up what he likes but by no measurable are they anything but succeeding immensely.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

greasykid1 said:


> LMFAO
> 
> "OK Boomer"
> 
> ...


Ok boomer. Way to prove you are the one that is out of touch because you have nothing left.


----------



## HelloSir (Dec 11, 2019)

CMPunkRock316 said:


> Cornette vs Russo was pretty funny for a bit.


Funny how Cornette and Russo have nearly the same viewpoints on the state of modern wrestling these days. Their rants on AEW almost mirror each other


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

greasykid1 said:


> LMFAO
> 
> "OK Boomer"
> 
> ...


And this is what is known as taking a big fat L.


----------



## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

Lheurch said:


> You cannot ignore Marko's size. There is a separate issue of all the 5'8 guys being in the world title hunt, but Marko is an extra level below that. There is a difference between tiny guy vs tiny guy and Marko getting in moves on The Lucha Brothers and your world champion. Inexcusable and not realistic in any sense. And it is not like Marko looks like a strong guy. He literally looks like a 12 year old boy who does a really stupid dance.
> 
> As I also said, I do not agree with everything Cornette says. I only partially agree with him on Omega. He did stupid things wrestling the child and the blowup doll, but I am easier to forgive the past than Cornette is. As long as he does not do stupid stuff in AEW that is OK. He has presented himself as a midcarder in AEW, not some top guy so I am not going to say he sucks, but he definitely is not some industry changing better than Flair guy either as Melzer claims. Nothing like that has been presented on AEW's show.


I can ignore it, it's actually SUPER easy. I watch AEW or WWE for five seconds, and someone does an Irish Whip, or throws ANY punch and my brain goes "oh yeah this is fake as fuck OK."

There's nothing done in wrestling that looks real. Go watch some boxing. The "best" most drooled about Jerry Lawler worked punch looks weaker than Tyson Fury's fucking jabs. If you guys want to get upset because Marko is too fake for you, that's fine it's a subjective problem. I'm just not going to get upset that the entertainment that is 95 percent completely fake is fake.


----------



## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

greasykid1 said:


> LMFAO
> 
> "OK Boomer"
> 
> ...


Are you talking to someone I have blocked is that why this makes no contextual sense?


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

MontyCora said:


> I can ignore it, it's actually SUPER easy. I watch AEW or WWE for five seconds, and someone does an Irish Whip, or throws ANY punch and my brain goes "oh yeah this is fake as fuck OK."
> 
> There's nothing done in wrestling that looks real. Go watch some boxing. The "best" most drooled about Jerry Lawler worked punch looks weaker than Tyson Fury's fucking jabs. If you guys want to get upset because Marko is too fake for you, that's fine it's a subjective problem. I'm just not going to get upset that the entertainment that is 95 percent completely fake is fake.


The more you have to suspend disbelief the less successful wrestling is.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

MontyCora said:


> I can ignore it, it's actually SUPER easy. I watch AEW or WWE for five seconds, and someone does an Irish Whip, or throws ANY punch and my brain goes "oh yeah this is fake as fuck OK."
> 
> There's nothing done in wrestling that looks real. Go watch some boxing. The "best" most drooled about Jerry Lawler worked punch looks weaker than Tyson Fury's fucking jabs. If you guys want to get upset because Marko is too fake for you, that's fine it's a subjective problem. I'm just not going to get upset that the entertainment that is 95 percent completely fake is fake.


If you can ignore it and then continue to talk about everything being fake, you're not ignoring it at all. We get that it's fake but if it's impossible to suspend your belief or it's making the rest of your roster look terrible, especially your champ, then it's not something you should be doing.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Do people get why the #1 criticism you get from people who aren’t wrestling fans is “you know it’s fake, right?” 

Have you ever talked to an MMA fan about the chances of the sport being rigged or predetermined?

Do you ever wonder why people get upset when they see a Diet Coke in a shot of Game of Thrones?

Some people don’t like watching behind the scenes features of interviews with actors.

Yes, there are some people who don’t care if it’s fake. But there are far, far more who want to see something convincing. Or at least _sincere_. It’s so fucking lazy and amateurish to go out there on any sort of stage and make fun of the stage and the effort people put in for trying to immerse you. Honestly, it comes off as immature and self-conscious.

Part of the unspoken contract between a performer and their audience is to put some fucking effort in. That is exchanged for the attention and often money of the audience. If you’re selling a fake fight, emphasis the fight and not the fake. The constant winking just makes it look like you’re too scared you can’t pull it off and don’t want to be caught putting some fucking effort in.


----------



## Jazminator (Jan 9, 2018)

Wrestling is scripted, we know that. Wrestling matches are performed in a way that wrestlers aren't actually trying to hurt each other, we know that. The wrestlers are doing their jobs. So are the bookers.

As a fan, I have zero problems suspending belief when I watch wrestling. For me, it's easy to just escape into the wrestling world and simply be a fan. I don't see why that's so hard to do. 

When you watch the Undertaker, do you actually think he is a "dead man" with supernatural powers? Did you actually believe Kevin Sullivan was an incarnation of the devil? Of course not. But as a fan, you play along and enjoy the ride. That's what wrestling's all about. 

Even though I'm much older, I choose to watch wrestling through the eyes of a young fan who still gets caught up in the make-believe world of pro wrestling. If I watched through the eyes of cynical armchair bookers, it would be a pretty miserable experience. To each his own, I suppose.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

I’m not a fan of The Undertaker either. The superpowers thing is cheesy as fuck. Taker as an entity that commands the respect of the office enough that they provide a giant hype machine for him? Yeah, that’s easier.

Kevin Sullivan was a mad man who used people’s fear of the esoteric and occult to mess with their minds and make himself seem more dangerous and unpredictable. There’s nothing wrong there.

Just because we know it’s not real doesn’t mean that part of the work just gets dropped entirely. I know movies aren’t real either, but they’ll still bother to put that shit through post-production to make it look good.

I don’t need Wrestler A and Wrestler B to hate each other. Just make it look like you do.


----------



## Metalhead1 (Jan 21, 2019)

I am split on Cornette. His one-liners are absolutely hilarious and you just know he has a major passion for the business, and that can be infectious. But he does get overly critical and lots of the things he says are purely for shock value. 

Some of his points are legit. Some of the AEW guys do mess up in the ring quite a bit. But he also goes after several guys who are very good and experienced wrestlers.

I view him as a wrestling purist, perhaps a bit to excess. He loves the guys who are awesome athletes and are very experienced in the ring. Nothing wrong with that at all, but half of those guys are just so damn boring and have no real personas or charisma. 

He obviously thinks that some of the personas and gimmicks of AEW are stupid. Perhaps some of them are a bit ridiculous, but as I always say, it's better to be a bit ridiculous (and entertaining), than very boring, and sadly, the latter is what wrestling has become.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Keith Lee loses to Mia Yim



What say of it, @The Wood. NXT just signs the “real” wrestlers who don’t show just how fake the sport is, right? And Lesnar has trouble with him?

Guess he has to come AEW now with the other geeks.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

bdon said:


> Keith Lee loses to Mia Yim
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can you do the rest of us a favour. If you're responding to a specific comment can you at least quote it so we know exactly where @The Wood said NXT just signs the "real" wrestlers who don't show just how fake the sport is? Thanks.

Also that video is obviously not in an NXT ring..


----------



## Ham and Egger (Dec 13, 2005)

I’m a huge aew fan and I also enjoy the criticism that Cornette provides. I don’t agree with everything he says but I do get a kick out of how riled up the product they put out gets him.


----------



## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

The Wood said:


> The more you have to suspend disbelief the less successful wrestling is.


I feel AEW made a mistake not running with a more serious in ring approach and instead booking indie style flips, a lot of high spots, hurt small guys easily picking up bigger guys, kick outs from big moves etc. A lot of modern tropes seen excessively on NXT and Raw, to a lesser extent. Young Bucks, LAX, Sammy and Private Party are the worst offenders.

Still, I don't think it's way too OTT or different to late 90's WCW. I certainly enjoy it more than WWE. Compared to Russo era WCW and TNA it's a work of art. Heck, on average I prefer it to WWE Raw 2002-2003/2006/2009-2012/2014-2019.

Moxley vs Ortiz, The 8 Man Tag and Janela vs Sabian were 3 quite different matches this week. A opener designed to set up a angle/future match, a crowd pleasing spotfest and a dull grudge match. Nothing spectacular in terms of action but nothing offensive either. Apart from the Bucks no selling the matches made sense within the context of the position on the roster and ongoing storylines.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

bdon said:


> Keith Lee loses to Mia Yim
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I’m not going to click that link. If Keith Lee did an intergender match with Mia Yim, then yes, that’s stupid. Why would I not think that’s stupid?

I also don’t recall saying that, and I second Cult03 that you should provide a quote or some context. If that happened in NXT, I would completely lambast it.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

It didn’t happen in NXT, but an NXT “star” did it elsewhere. And lost. You’re a big Cornette guy. You going to hold a grudge against Keith Lee and say he can never be a star over something he done elsewhere?

And the larger point is that you get upset about a guy like Orange Cassidy who never does anything but put his hands in his pockets. The wrestlers treat him like a fan most of the time and just ignore him until it bites them in the ass. I’m sure ELSEWHERE he legit wrestled to show how fake it was, but thus far in AEW, that has not happened. He tried it with Pac and ate a boot for his troubles. Dark Order gave him a beatdown. 

I agree they need to sell and portray a sense of realism for the casual fan to invest their time and effort into the AEW universe, but I have not seen any of the stuff that is cringey.

Yet.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

bdon said:


> It didn’t happen in NXT, but an NXT “star” did it elsewhere. And lost. You’re a big Cornette guy. You going to hold a grudge against Keith Lee and say he can never be a star over something he done elsewhere?
> 
> And the larger point is that you get upset about a guy like Orange Cassidy who never does anything but put his hands in his pockets. The wrestlers treat him like a fan most of the time and just ignore him until it bites them in the ass. I’m sure ELSEWHERE he legit wrestled to show how fake it was, but thus far in AEW, that has not happened. He tried it with Pac and ate a boot for his troubles. Dark Order gave him a beatdown.
> 
> ...


So because I’m a fan of Cornette I need to obey your expectations of what I want from a wrestler? Um, what?

If Keith Lee did this in NXT, I would bemoan it. Orange Cassidy putting his hands in his pockets during a fight DOES expose it. I really don’t understand your argument here.

Keith Lee making it look fake = bad. Orange Cassidy making it look fake = bad. Orange Cassidy making it look fake on TNT = very bad. What don’t you understand?


----------



## Hangman (Feb 3, 2017)

The Wood said:


> So because I’m a fan of Cornette I need to obey your expectations of what I want from a wrestler? Um, what?
> 
> If Keith Lee did this in NXT, I would bemoan it. Orange Cassidy putting his hands in his pockets during a fight DOES expose it. I really don’t understand your argument here.
> 
> Keith Lee making it look fake = bad. Orange Cassidy making it look fake = bad. Orange Cassidy making it look fake on TNT = very bad. What don’t you understand?


Completely agree with you.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

bdon said:


> It didn’t happen in NXT, but an NXT “star” did it elsewhere. And lost. You’re a big Cornette guy. You going to hold a grudge against Keith Lee and say he can never be a star over something he done elsewhere?
> 
> And the larger point is that you get upset about a guy like Orange Cassidy who never does anything but put his hands in his pockets. The wrestlers treat him like a fan most of the time and just ignore him until it bites them in the ass. I’m sure ELSEWHERE he legit wrestled to show how fake it was, but thus far in AEW, that has not happened. He tried it with Pac and ate a boot for his troubles. Dark Order gave him a beatdown.
> 
> ...





The Wood said:


> So because I’m a fan of Cornette I need to obey your expectations of what I want from a wrestler? Um, what?
> 
> If Keith Lee did this in NXT, I would bemoan it. Orange Cassidy putting his hands in his pockets during a fight DOES expose it. I really don’t understand your argument here.
> 
> Keith Lee making it look fake = bad. Orange Cassidy making it look fake = bad. Orange Cassidy making it look fake on TNT = very bad. What don’t you understand?


Liking Cornette does not make one the same as him. I have said here repeatedly I like him but I disagree with many things he says. None of us MUST automatically like or not like anything.

My biggest example is Kenny. Jim cannot forgive the silliness Kenny did with wrestling a small child or a blow up doll. I agree that is dumb, but it did not happen on AEW TV. AEW has presented Kenny is a midcard guy who has goofy facial expressions, poor promos, but decent wrestling. He has not been presented as a fake flipper but he has also not been presented as someone transcending the industry either.

Keith Lee doing that makes him look bad but I blame the promotions more than the guys. NXT did not make him do that so how could they possibly be at fault? Now that the EVPs are in positions of power I hold them accountable since they can choose not to do the stuff they do.


----------



## AuthorOfPosts (Feb 9, 2020)

Cornette is fun to listen to. Especially when he goes on his rants. If you're extremely protective of certain things you like then he might not be your cup of tea but his over the top bashing of AEW balances out the over the top, they can do know wrong, love towards AEW.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Where has Orange Cassidy put his hands in his pants during a fight?

His gimmick is that he’s too cool to get worked up. He hasn’t really been in any “fights”. A drop kick or there. A suicide dive. He has not portrayed anything as fake.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

bdon said:


> Where has Orange Cassidy put his hands in his pants during a fight?
> 
> His gimmick is that he’s too cool to get worked up. He hasn’t really been in any “fights”. A drop kick or there. A suicide dive. He has not portrayed anything as fake.


Trying my best to be objective here. He has been portrayed as the dumbest person in the history of wrestling. He is involved in something in which people supposedly fight and he refuses. He also looks like a geek who would get knocked out by half a punch and he does not even bother to defend himself. What exactly is cool or likable about a geek who does not even put up a fight when attacked?


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Then you clearly never met any stoner hippie-types.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

bdon said:


> Then you clearly never met any stoner hippie-types.


None that I have ever wanted to see on a TV screen or cheer for, no.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Lheurch said:


> None that I have ever wanted to see on a TV screen or cheer for, no.


And he’s been presented as a stud capable of kicking ass? No. Is he chasing a title? No. Is he no selling their punches or kicks? No. Do some people absolutely not believe in fighting? Yes.

If he does the shit I’ve seen on YouTube from his indie days, then I will agree with you. For now, it has not been an issue.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

bdon said:


> And he’s been presented as a stud capable of kicking ass? No. Is he chasing a title? No. Is he no selling their punches or kicks? No. Do some people absolutely not believe in fighting? Yes.
> 
> If he does the shit I’ve seen on YouTube from his indie days, then I will agree with you. For now, it has not been an issue.


I have no problem with people who do not want to fight not fighting. But those people do not show up to fights. And it is not like OC refuses to fight at all, he play-kicks them like an idiot. Plus he has done dives too, so it is not like he is has some moral thing against fighting. Kayfabe, he is a very dumb human being and I just do not like ignorance. Would anyone cheer for someone getting in the NFL and just standing there when a play was run? How about someone play-kicking in the UFC? The whole thing is just mind numbing DUMB. Plus, it is not like they have taken the time to actually explain anything AT ALL about the character. No promos, no explanations, just dumb. I feel bad that experienced announcers like JR and Tony have to call things he is involved in and you can hear their frustration.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Is it dumb? Yes. Is it funny? Yes.

He has not done anything over-the-top that spits in the face of wrestling like he did on the indie circuit. If he gets in a match and begins to seriously wrestle like he wants to begin picking up wins and does shit like this? It is stupid and deserves an ass-kicking. As of now, he’s a glorified manager.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

bdon said:


> Is it dumb? Yes. Is it funny? Yes.
> 
> He has not done anything over-the-top that spits in the face of wrestling like he did on the indie circuit. If he gets in a match and begins to seriously wrestle like he wants to begin picking up wins and does shit like this? It is stupid and deserves an ass-kicking. As of now, he’s a glorified manager.


I will say humor is relative so something I do not find funny others certainly can. Nothing about him is funny to me, just DUMB. But he WAS in a 3 on 3 match on Dynamite. I get annoyed with stuff like this because I hate to see a company do stupid stuff that the WWE does that turned so many of us off from that like dance routines and small children getting moves in on adult men. Please have SOME respect for your audience.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

He was in a 3-on-3 match, and he was never taken seriously, because I watched it waiting for the cringe shit to start.

Trust me. I seen videos of him pop on social media before AEW was even a thought. I cringed and immediately thought to myself what would a Jim Cornette day about this shit?

But in AEW, no, I have not seen anything cringey shit. Yet.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

bdon said:


> He was in a 3-on-3 match, and he was never taken seriously, because I watched it waiting for the cringe shit to start.
> 
> Trust me. I seen videos of him pop on social media before AEW was even a thought. I cringed and immediately thought to myself what would a Jim Cornette day about this shit?
> 
> But in AEW, no, I have not seen anything cringey shit. Yet.


But he still play-kicks and just comes across as dumb. And hey, I will admit there are people in existence who like dumb stuff. People would pop when Hornswoggle would run out from under the ring. Does that make it good? I just do not see any reason to defend a company doing dumb stuff. There are some people on here (not you) that think any criticism of AEW means we hate everything about it. I just want them to be better and in my opinion that means less OC and less Marko. I cannot imagine any potential new or returning casual fan turning on TNT and seeing OC play-kicking an adult man or Marko getting a move in on an adult man and not immediately changing the channel to something else.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

An interesting thing Cornette said on his podcast today: Pro Wresting is the only sport that is watched by less people today than in the past. Not sure if that is 100% true but it is an interesting point. In the late 90's/early 2000's, Monday Night Football lost audience to the WWF. People would laugh at that concept today.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

I absolutely think that rings true.

Well, baseball is likely a dying a sport. Hockey used to be on tv everywhere, and I can not remember the last time I seen a live game on television, just highlights.

But yes, wrestling is a dying medium, IMO.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

bdon said:


> I absolutely think that rings true.
> 
> Well, baseball is likely a dying a sport. Hockey used to be on tv everywhere, and I can not remember the last time I seen a live game on television, just highlights.
> 
> But yes, wrestling is a dying medium, IMO.


Yeah, ratings today for everything are down compared to 20+ years ago because there are a ton of more options. But it does make me sad that wrestling is choosing to help its own decline.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Lheurch said:


> Yeah, ratings today for everything are down compared to 20+ years ago because there are a ton of more options. But it does make me sad that wrestling is choosing to help its own decline.


Well, there is a lot of years to undo the damage done by Vince’s monopoly. Fans could be given NJPW tomorrow, and they wouldn’t take to it immediately. Dumb shit is a part of the very finer of today’s western wrestling culture. As AEW gains popularity, they absolutely need to phase the shit out, but I’m just not going to sweat it right now.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

bdon said:


> Well, there is a lot of years to undo the damage done by Vince’s monopoly. Fans could be given NJPW tomorrow, and they wouldn’t take to it immediately. Dumb shit is a part of the very finer of today’s western wrestling culture. As AEW gains popularity, they absolutely need to phase the shit out, but I’m just not going to sweat it right now.


One way to help repair the damage WWE did for 15+ years would not to do similar things they did. I am not in the crowd that says OC is going to get them canceled, but he is in the group of things that appeals to the fans in the building, but drives away any potential new fans.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Lheurch said:


> One way to help repair the damage WWE did for 15+ years would not to do similar things they did. I am not in the crowd that says OC is going to get them canceled, but he is in the group of things that appeals to the fans in the building, but drives away any potential new fans.


And you can offer something like NJPW tomorrow, and it may be cancelled in a year’s time. You’ve got to have some of the bad shit for now as you grow the audience and exposure, and you hopefully phase out that shit as the numbers grow.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

bdon said:


> And you can offer something like NJPW tomorrow, and it may be cancelled in a year’s time. You’ve got to have some of the bad shit for now as you grow the audience and exposure, and you hopefully phase out that shit as the numbers grow.


What?? Who says you HAVE to do the dumb stuff? Why are people going out of their way to excuse dumbness? NJPW would likely not wok in the US either due to lack of English speaking promos.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

I said “like NJPW”. Strictly wrestling and making the shit seem real isn’t going to catch on immediately. You have to play the western culture of wrestling and hopefully grow your brand large enough that you can begin to change that culture.

Throwing some NWA Powerrr shit out there or NJPW type stuff isn’t going to appeal to anyone but the diehards.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

I mean, NXT is the closest thing resembling NJPW, but how well is it doing? It’s getting beat fairly often.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

bdon said:


> I mean, NXT is the closest thing resembling NJPW, but how well is it doing? It’s getting beat fairly often.


For me, the biggest issue with NXT is it is minor leagues by their own admission.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

bdon said:


> I said “like NJPW”. Strictly wrestling and making the shit seem real isn’t going to catch on immediately. You have to play the western culture of wrestling and hopefully grow your brand large enough that you can begin to change that culture.
> 
> Throwing some NWA Powerrr shit out there or NJPW type stuff isn’t going to appeal to anyone but the diehards.


I think it depends on what you mean by "NJPW type stuff." The Bucks were there and did their silly flips there too.


----------



## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

It's interesting how 90 percent of Cornies problems have to do with the bullshit comedy undercard stuff. I guess it doesn't bother me so much because I didn't grow up on a plausible entertaining undercard. I grew up on porn stars getting their dicks chopped off and giving birth to hands.

Janellas kiss spot is NOTHING in the face of that. Hell that spot was genuinely amusing.


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

DaSlacker said:


> I feel AEW made a mistake not running with a more serious in ring approach and instead booking indie style flips, a lot of high spots, hurt small guys easily picking up bigger guys, kick outs from big moves etc. A lot of modern tropes seen excessively on NXT and Raw, to a lesser extent. Young Bucks, LAX, Sammy and Private Party are the worst offenders.
> .


But no us televised promotion have ran a serious in-ring approach since 1984.

There is a universe sized gulf between the in-ring style of the 1950s guys like Thesz and Buddy Rodgers and say Hulk Hogan vs Ultimate Warrior or Undertaker. They couldn't be considered same form of entertainment even, Thesz and Rodgers is closer to modern mma.

I know some hardcore fans hate Indy style but that's far far closer to Hogan/Warrior/Sting/Undertaker/Flair cartoon stuff than it is to the Thesz/Lewis/Rodgers shoot style.


----------



## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't think people know how mainstream fans react to OC. People are assuming that in a big way.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

bdon said:


> Where has Orange Cassidy put his hands in his pants during a fight?
> 
> His gimmick is that he’s too cool to get worked up. He hasn’t really been in any “fights”. A drop kick or there. A suicide dive. He has not portrayed anything as fake.


I’ve seen him do dives with his hands in his pockets. That is absolutely stupid. Why would you give your opponent your head like that? And that flies in the face of his “not fighting” thing. A suicide dive is definitely an offensive maneuver. So that point is bullshit on 



bdon said:


> Then you clearly never met any stoner hippie-types.


Yeah, I have. I know some of them who can fight too. I know some that have been quite aggressive and principled. I know some that are laid back too. They wouldn’t join a fight promotion.

By the way, Orange Cassidy reminds me of no authentic stoner I have ever met. He reminds me of a geek who has come up with a wrestling gimmick that attempts to pass him off as a slacker in a context where it doesn’t make sense.

Randy Orton is laid back in the way a fighter can be. So is Matt Riddle. Daniel Bryan might smoke a bit of weed and have a laid back personality. It doesn’t mean he doesn’t try to win gusbprofessoonao



bdon said:


> And he’s been presented as a stud capable of kicking ass? No. Is he chasing a title? No. Is he no selling their punches or kicks? No. Do some people absolutely not believe in fighting? Yes.
> 
> If he does the shit I’ve seen on YouTube from his indie days, then I will agree with you. For now, it has not been an issue.


If you don’t believe in fighting why would you become a PROFESSIONAL FIGHTER?!?! God, this is the stupidest fucking shit.

Who cares if he’s not presented in the main events? Why does your under-card need to be presented as a steaming pile of disingenuous horse-shit? 



Lheurch said:


> I have no problem with people who do not want to fight not fighting. But those people do not show up to fights. And it is not like OC refuses to fight at all, he play-kicks them like an idiot. Plus he has done dives too, so it is not like he is has some moral thing against fighting. Kayfabe, he is a very dumb human being and I just do not like ignorance. Would anyone cheer for someone getting in the NFL and just standing there when a play was run? How about someone play-kicking in the UFC? The whole thing is just mind numbing DUMB. Plus, it is not like they have taken the time to actually explain anything AT ALL about the character. No promos, no explanations, just dumb. I feel bad that experienced announcers like JR and Tony have to call things he is involved in and you can hear their frustration.


100% this. 



bdon said:


> Is it dumb? Yes. Is it funny? Yes.
> 
> He has not done anything over-the-top that spits in the face of wrestling like he did on the indie circuit. If he gets in a match and begins to seriously wrestle like he wants to begin picking up wins and does shit like this? It is stupid and deserves an ass-kicking. As of now, he’s a glorified manager.


He’s a shitty manager by any standard too. 



Lheurch said:


> An interesting thing Cornette said on his podcast today: Pro Wresting is the only sport that is watched by less people today than in the past. Not sure if that is 100% true but it is an interesting point. In the late 90's/early 2000's, Monday Night Football lost audience to the WWF. People would laugh at that concept today.


It’s probably true. Wrestling fans now use the fall of television to justify the low ratings of wrestling, whereas wrestling has historically been a huge influence on TV, its ratings and its expansion. 



Lheurch said:


> One way to help repair the damage WWE did for 15+ years would not to do similar things they did. I am not in the crowd that says OC is going to get them canceled, but he is in the group of things that appeals to the fans in the building, but drives away any potential new fans.


That really hammers it. For every person you get who thinks an Orange Cassidy is funny, because it lampoons something that wrestling fans have masochistically started to hate, you are turning away ten potential new viewers/audience members.


----------



## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

validreasoning said:


> But no us televised promotion have ran a serious in-ring approach since 1984.
> 
> There is a universe sized gulf between the in-ring style of the 1950s guys like Thesz and Buddy Rodgers and say Hulk Hogan vs Ultimate Warrior or Undertaker. They couldn't be considered same form of entertainment even, Thesz and Rodgers is closer to modern mma.
> 
> I know some hardcore fans hate Indy style but that's far far closer to Hogan/Warrior/Sting/Undertaker/Flair cartoon stuff than it is to the Thesz/Lewis/Rodgers shoot style.


I'm biased I will admit but I was thinking more 80's Mid South meets early 90's WCW than Thesz or UWF International. Not after watching Brock vs Cain. Just minor details like cutting out spinning DDT's, more emphasis on psychology and outlawing closed fists. Dynamite Kid and Bret Hart were the masters of the 'liitle details' approach that I feel would have benefitted them in the long term. As you describe, WWE has the monopoly on semi replaced cartoon larger than life characters with cartoony indie style athleticism. 

AEW has been very inconsistent in some ways. They have Cody, Arn, a ranking system, time limits, statistics etc. Yet Nick Jackson takes a beating from 4 men and sells it for a 30 seconds.


----------



## greasykid1 (Dec 22, 2015)

The Wood said:


> Ok boomer. Way to prove you are the one that is out of touch because you have nothing left.


No. I just don't engage with morons that use idiotic "insults" that were in fashion 6 months ago ... and use them incorrectly, at that lol

A "boomer", in this scenario would be the one stuck in their ways and refusing to accept change in the industry. Y'know, like ... just to give the first example that springs to mind ... Jim Cornette. If the best you have is "Well that's your opinion, but this is mine", I think it's your discussion chops that are lacking.

You go back to screaming into the void. Some people have better things to do than argue on the internet.


----------



## stevem20 (Jul 24, 2018)

Cornette is a great listen. Obviously I don't expect the people who love the non-stop flip flop action to agree, but that's just awful to watch, imo. I don't see it with Omega. He's just simply not that good. There's at least 20 people in WWE alone that are bigger stars than him. He's bland.

And the Young Bucks? Jeez, make a top 50 tag teams of all time and they get nowhere close.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

greasykid1 said:


> No. I just don't engage with morons that use idiotic "insults" that were in fashion 6 months ago ... and use them incorrectly, at that lol
> 
> A "boomer", in this scenario would be the one stuck in their ways and refusing to accept change in the industry. Y'know, like ... just to give the first example that springs to mind ... Jim Cornette. If the best you have is "Well that's your opinion, but this is mine", I think it's your discussion chops that are lacking.
> 
> You go back to screaming into the void. Some people have better things to do than argue on the internet.


“I don’t argue with kids on the internet.”
(argues with kid on the internet)

Ok boomer. 



stevem20 said:


> Cornette is a great listen. Obviously I don't expect the people who love the non-stop flip flop action to agree, but that's just awful to watch, imo. I don't see it with Omega. He's just simply not that good. There's at least 20 people in WWE alone that are bigger stars than him. He's bland.
> 
> And the Young Bucks? Jeez, make a top 50 tag teams of all time and they get nowhere close.


Hot take: There are no less than five tag teams on SmackDown _right now_ that are better than The Young Bucks. The Usos, The New Day, The Revival, Cesaro/Nakamura, Ziggler/Roode.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

validreasoning said:


> But no us televised promotion have ran a serious in-ring approach since 1984.


Whaaaa?

- WCW before Hogan and from about 1996-1998/1999 was generally pretty serious. Granted they had a few goofy characters (Dungeon Of Doom, Glacier, Robocop) the main events were serious stories that were realistic in their approach. The nWo became a huge deal because of just how serious and realistic it was and the silly shit was generally kept to a segment or two a week.

- I'd argue TNA for the majority of it's life was pretty serious also. They didn't do a whole lot of exposing the business in their peak and offered a more serious and realistic alternative to what WWE was doing at the time. I was a long time TNA fan and I remember the only time I was really insulted was when Matt Hardy became "broken" and fought his brother with drones and shot explosives at him. Now they do really stupid comedy shit all the time and book intergender stuff but for the entirety of Dixie's run it was generally serious wrestling.

- I don't follow ROH anymore but when I did their style was always quite serious also. That might have changed as it's been a few years since I was actively following.

- Hell, you could even argue certain time periods in the WWE were super serious. I don't remember too much silliness from like 01-04/05 from the WWE.

I assume this post is going to have people saying "On TNA June 4th, 2005 AJ Styles wore a turkey suit to the ring and wrestled in it!" and you all are probably right. I'm talking general tone of these shows though. I'd say AEW has done more comedy and exposing of the business than anyone on national television in a long time (Maybe ever)


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

stevem20 said:


> Cornette is a great listen. Obviously I don't expect the people who love the non-stop flip flop action to agree, but that's just awful to watch, imo. I don't see it with Omega. He's just simply not that good. There's at least 20 people in WWE alone that are bigger stars than him. He's bland.
> 
> And the Young Bucks? Jeez, make a top 50 tag teams of all time and they get nowhere close.


Could you indulge me with your list of 20 talents in WWE better than Kenny? Would love a good laugh.


----------



## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Whaaaa?
> 
> - WCW before Hogan and from about 1996-1998/1999 was generally pretty serious. Granted they had a few goofy characters (Dungeon Of Doom, Glacier, Robocop) the main events were serious stories that were realistic in their approach. The nWo became a huge deal because of just how serious and realistic it was and the silly shit was generally kept to a segment or two a week.
> 
> ...


I think he meant old school wrestling. All of the promotions you list featured the modern style in some variation or another, though the likes of ROH took it deadly serious. WCW was generally more action packed and faster than WWE, until they caught up in 2000. TNA started implementing bad comedy once Russo was involved. Though they also featured a large amount of the video game style spotfest.

Nothing could ever expose the business like Hornswoggle pinning Chavo or El Torito pinning Drew McIntyre or the 24/7 rule. Or the Otis/Mandy Rose spot at the Royal Rumble, as good as it was.


----------



## The Masked Avenger (Apr 18, 2018)

Taroostyles said:


> Could you indulge me with your list of 20 talents in WWE better than Kenny? Would love a good laugh.


I feel like you don't really want him to do that because he's going to come up with some random garbage list just to start shit. Then we are going to get pages and pages of back and forth between Bdon and The Wood about whether his list is right or now.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> I feel like you don't really want him to do that because he's going to come up with some random garbage list just to start shit. Then we are going to get pages and pages of back and forth between Bdon and The Wood about whether his list is right or now.


LMFAO

I had already put the notion of their being 20 better on ignore. Lmao


----------



## NathanMayberry (Oct 11, 2019)

Taroostyles said:


> Could you indulge me with your list of 20 talents in WWE better than Kenny? Would love a good laugh.


I don't know how anyone can deny that Kenny Omega has been the massive disappointment of AEW. 

He's basically just a name that's living off of what he's done in Japan at this stage. What even is his gimmick?


----------



## The Masked Avenger (Apr 18, 2018)

NathanMayberry said:


> I don't know how anyone can deny that Kenny Omega has been the massive disappointment of AEW.
> 
> He's basically just a name that's living off of what he's done in Japan at this stage. What even is his gimmick?


That literally is his gimmick. He was a big time star in Japan but has been struggling to adapting to the American style. That's why he lost to Jericho, Moxley and Pac. He has shifted a bit to fit Hangman's story arc as well as the story of The Elite splitting apart. Jericho was always going to be the first champion end of story. He is the biggest star, the most known name. Putting the belt on him first was the right and only choice. Omega knows that. 

Moxley was just apart of the biggest storyline in the biggest wrestling company on the planet coming into the company. The only one that was going to take the belt from Jericho is MOXLEY. That is your main event storyline for the first year for the world title. 

Omega is going to get the belt but he can't be the biggest star when there are two bigger stars that are going to hold the belt first. The story they are telling with Omega is the correct one to tell. He will have a redemption story and he will take the belt from Mox eventually but he has to do something until then.

My god, I can't possibly understand how f'n hard it is to read between the storyline to find the bigger picture being told. Instant gratification, if they aren't blatant and short with their story arcs it confuses the hell out of idiot fans. Christ.


----------



## Stinger Fan (Jun 21, 2006)

People need to stop giving Cornette so much attention, its only what he wants


----------



## Jazminator (Jan 9, 2018)

Stinger Fan said:


> People need to stop giving Cornette so much attention, its only what he wants


That's pro wrestling for you. It's all about attracting a crowd and drawing attention, and Cornette is great at that.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

AJ Styles
Randy Orton
Samoa Joe
Brock Lesnar
Daniel Bryan
Seth Rollins
Adam Cole
Finn Balor
Tommaso Ciampa
Johnny Gargano
Chad Gable
Rey Mysterio
Andrade
Shinsuke Nakamura
Sami Zayn
Kevin Owens
Roman Reigns
Bobby Roode
Dolph Ziggler
Rusev
Kyle O’Reilly
Roderick Strong
Cesaro

I’ll stop there, but depending on your flavor, you can make a case for any of those guys. Maybe not as being presented as a top guy, or being as spectacular in many cases, but as a total package and having significance, being able to tell a story, etc.? Yeah, absolutely, all of them.

Omega’s facials are awful, he cannot sell, he’s got limited psychology and he can’t make things look like he’s in a real fight. Those are MAJOR flaws. A lot of Omega’s hype is internet creation and New Japan booking. He excels at athletics and doing moves that look “crisp.” You have to grade exclusively on that scale to get him over the line.

As an overall worker, there’s a reason Omega is falling flat when you see him on TV every week. And he’s got creative control.

And if you think I’m exaggerating, just imagine how wet everyone’s panties would be if any of those guys showed up in either New Japan or AEW. They would immediately be as big or bigger a deal as Kenny Omega and you know it. Yes, even guys the internet shits on like Seth Rollins, Roman Reigns and Adam Cole. They would be perceived as “free” and every promo they cut would be amazing and every match they had would be over ** and much closer to ****.

Perception matters.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

I know I’m going to have people call that laughable, but imagine Kevin Steen in AEW. Actually imagine what it would be like. Imagine Cesaro in a G1. Meltzer would be calling him the greatest wrestler in the world and you know it. Even if Omega was also there.

Roman Reigns in AEW? Joe Anoa’i shedding his “slave name” to come and see what this All Elite is all about, and if they’re ready for blood to be spilt? AEW fans would be crying tears of joy. As they should be. Are you really going to tell me Omega’s hushed tones and knee lifts are going to compete with that bass?

Even Chad Gable. That guy is sooooo fucking good. Shit gimmick, but the guy is the second coming of Kurt Angle. You put that little freak out there against Okada and I guarantee you break Dave’s scale again. “I was in the Olympics, you just carried the torch.” Bam. Tokyo Dome main event once Chas Betts wins the G1 Climax and becomes only the second gaijin to do so.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

The Wood said:


> AJ Styles
> Randy Orton
> Samoa Joe
> Brock Lesnar
> ...


On this note, let's go 20 deep in AEW:

Jericho
Moxley
Cody
MJF
Omega
Hangman
Darby
Pac
Guevara
Hager
Sabian
Janella
Jungle Boy
Luchasaurus
Shawn Spears
Wardlow
Dustin Rhodes
Penta
Rey Fenix
Orange Cassidy

Notice how big of a dropoff there is between the first tier and the second? It's not even comparable, the midcard flat out sucks; I agree that a secondary title should be introduced, but not until the talent in the midcard is improved. By the time I got to the 11-12 range, I was genuinely struggling to figure out who to put on the list. I didn't mention the likes of Stunt, Kiss, and Nakazawa.


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

NathanMayberry said:


> I don't know how anyone can deny that Kenny Omega has been the massive disappointment of AEW.
> 
> He's basically just a name that's living off of what he's done in Japan at this stage. What even is his gimmick?


I dont buy that notion at all. Kenny got over huge in Japan basically exclusively for wrestling incredible matches right? Like I dont think anyone can argue that. 

Even when Kenny 1st got into Bullet Club he was wrestling juniors still and he didnt even have his 1st match with Okada until more than 2 years after joining. There was no great character arc to him other than little touches they would do like the special entrances with the Terminator stuff, really his defining trait was being "The Best Bout Machine" 

Then you add in the platforms that NJPW provides like the G1 and this is where Kenny became huge over the course of 3 years. He was having the best matches in the world with the best wrestlers in the world, that was his gimmick. 

Now transfer to American tv and guess what? You cant just be that character and get over to a wider mainstream audience. Yes it can be part of it but then you have to layer it so he isnt one dimensional. 

If people are saying hes been disappointing because he hasn't had quite the level of matches that he had in NJPW then well yeah NJPW has pretty much every single one of the best wrestlers in the world and a platform that accentuates great wrestling in volume.


----------



## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

El Hammerstone said:


> On this note, let's go 20 deep in AEW:
> 
> Jericho
> Moxley
> ...


Look at the 1997-1998 roster of WCW. Then look at how thin or messed up/drugged up the WWF roster was, outside of Austin and 5-10 others.

Yet they got over: Ray Traylor, Kama Mustafa, Rockabilly, Jesse James, Diesel 2, Ace Brown, Andrew Martin and Scott Taylor. There is lot to be said for a small roster and some character work.


----------



## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

El Hammerstone said:


> On this note, let's go 20 deep in AEW:
> 
> Jericho
> Moxley
> ...


Midcard is fucking hard. How do you make the undercard matter generally speaking? I'd say NXT does it well by trying to make everyone mean something.

I'd argue between Jurassic Express, Darby, Wardlow , guys like Sammy and Hangman(technically Elite but he's upper midcard champ material to me)Spears, Rey Fenix, don't forget Scorpio Sky... There's enough decent mid-card level guys to book a really good "everything that isn't Moxley/Cody/Jericho/Elite"


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

MontyCora said:


> Midcard is fucking hard. How do you make the undercard matter generally speaking? I'd say NXT does it well by trying to make everyone mean something.
> 
> I'd argue between Jurassic Express, Darby, Wardlow , guys like Sammy and Hangman(technically Elite but he's upper midcard champ material to me)Spears, Rey Fenix, don't forget Scorpio Sky... There's enough decent mid-card level guys to book a really good "everything that isn't Moxley/Cody/Jericho/Elite"


By giving them a reason to be there. A mid card title would go a long way to making 95% of their roster matter. Unfortunately, AEW's midcard is currently filled with jobbers or people who shouldn't even be there. Again, I just don't understand the logic behind some of their signings when there's so much better talent available. Imagine Hammerstone, Flip, Jacob Fatu, Jiro Kuroshio, Davey Boy, Chris Ridgeway, Pillman Jr., The Von Erichs and Eli Drake fighting it out for a mid card title instead of Darby Allin, SCU, Havoc, Janella, Sabian, Stunt and Guevara.

Holy fuck, I've just had a thought. AEW think the tag team titles are a mid card title..


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Whaaaa?
> 
> - WCW before Hogan and from about 1996-1998/1999 was generally pretty serious. Granted they had a few goofy characters (Dungeon Of Doom, Glacier, Robocop) the main events were serious stories that were realistic in their approach. The nWo became a huge deal because of just how serious and realistic it was and the silly shit was generally kept to a segment or two a week.


It was still extremely cartoony. In a serious promotion guys like road warrior and sting would not get pushed because of their size and look or be painted up the way they were. You mentioned certain things but overuse of gimmick matches, black scorpion, White Castle of fear, Shock Master etc put it in same bracket as what Vince was doing not what was happening between 1900-1950

I should point out this is what us pro wrestling used to be. A time when pro wrestling was still considered a sport and shared the back and front pages of newspapers with football, baseball, boxing








> - I'd argue TNA for the majority of it's life was pretty serious also. They didn't do a whole lot of exposing the business in their peak and offered a more serious and realistic alternative to what WWE was doing at the time. I was a long time TNA fan and I remember the only time I was really insulted was when Matt Hardy became "broken" and fought his brother with drones and shot explosives at him. Now they do really stupid comedy shit all the time and book intergender stuff but for the entirety of Dixie's run it was generally serious wrestling.


TNA the company that gave us claire Lynch, fish market Street fight, reverse battle royal, electrified steel cage match, lock box challenge, Jenna Morasca wrestling on ppv

They tried to out-zany Vince



> - I don't follow ROH anymore but when I did their style was always quite serious also. That might have changed as it's been a few years since I was actively following.


Roh weren't on national TV though. 2005-09 was probably most serious any known us promotion got in last 30 because ecw was zany as fuck, uswa and away went full on crazy.



> - Hell, you could even argue certain time periods in the WWE were super serious. I don't remember too much silliness from like 01-04/05 from the WWE.


When business started to fall in 2001 Vince went full on car crash and obviously it flopped.

Night after survivor series 2001 you had Vince pulling down his pants and making people kiss his ass, hla, Al Wilson, Katie Vick, Heidenreich raping Cole, Eugene, Goldberg in a wig,.. attitude era or today actually would have been a better period to pick 



> I assume this post is going to have people saying "On TNA June 4th, 2005 AJ Styles wore a turkey suit to the ring and wrestled in it!" and you all are probably right. I'm talking general tone of these shows though. I'd say AEW has done more comedy and exposing of the business than anyone on national television in a long time (Maybe ever)


I have issues with aew (some big ones) but I don't think they are exposing the business any worse than a giant chicken man hatching from an egg, RoboCop saving sting, a guy who thinks he is a rooster, a wrestling manbull, a clown and bunch of midget wrestling clowns, group of wrestlers running around the ring after a raw turkey, undertaker dying and ascending to heaven, a 7 foot mummy born out of a block of ice, 80 year old woman given birth to a hand, a leprechaun and land of little people living under the ring.

There has been so much silly shit in us pro wrestling over the past 35 years that stuff like Marko stunt or orange Cassidy doesn't bother me. Once Vince cut that 'welcome to the attitude era' spiel in 1997 he told everyone this is fake and we borrow from cartoons/comedies etc.


----------



## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

Cult03 said:


> By giving them a reason to be there. A mid card title would go a long way to making 95% of their roster matter. Unfortunately, AEW's midcard is currently filled with jobbers or people who shouldn't even be there. Again, I just don't understand the logic behind some of their signings when there's so much better talent available. Imagine Hammerstone, Flip, Jacob Fatu, Jiro Kuroshio, Davey Boy, Chris Ridgeway, Pillman Jr., The Von Erichs and Eli Drake fighting it out for a mid card title instead of Darby Allin, SCU, Havoc, Janella, Sabian, Stunt and Guevara.
> 
> Holy fuck, I've just had a thought. AEW think the tag team titles are a mid card title..


I mean I just named a bunch of great talent, and I resent your implication that Darby somehow should be cut loose.

Just give those talents angles with as much love and attention as the big dick storylines you've got, right now Mox/Jericho and Cody/MJF and you're golden.


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

Cult03 said:


> By giving them a reason to be there. A mid card title would go a long way to making 95% of their roster matter. Unfortunately, AEW's midcard is currently filled with jobbers or people who shouldn't even be there. Again, I just don't understand the logic behind some of their signings when there's so much better talent available. Imagine Hammerstone, Flip, Jacob Fatu, Jiro Kuroshio, Davey Boy, Chris Ridgeway, Pillman Jr., The Von Erichs and Eli Drake fighting it out for a mid card title instead of Darby Allin, SCU, Havoc, Janella, Sabian, Stunt and Guevara.
> 
> Holy fuck, I've just had a thought. AEW think the tag team titles are a mid card title..


Except both Darby and Guevara are better than anyone you listed there. Only one debatable is Fatu and while great is a just another typical monster heel. Darby and Sammy have unique characters that are multi layered and getting over huge. 

But of course they're SMALL right?


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Taroostyles said:


> Except both Darby and Guevara are better than anyone you listed there. Only one debatable is Fatu and while great is a just another typical monster heel. Darby and Sammy have unique characters that are multi layered and getting over huge.
> 
> But of course they're SMALL right?


Yes, it's because they're SMALL, yet he named Flip, Jiro, and Ridgway who are obviously giant mountains of muscle. I like Darby and Sammy btw, so don't start down that route.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

validreasoning said:


> It was still extremely cartoony. In a serious promotion guys like road warrior and sting would not get pushed because of their size and look or be painted up the way they were. You mentioned certain things but overuse of gimmick matches, black scorpion, White Castle of fear, Shock Master etc put it in same bracket as what Vince was doing not what was happening between 1900-1950
> 
> I should point out this is what us pro wrestling used to be. A time when pro wrestling was still considered a sport and shared the back and front pages of newspapers with football, baseball, boxing
> 
> ...


MY MAN!!!! BRAVO!!!!!


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Taroostyles said:


> Except both Darby and Guevara are better than anyone you listed there. Only one debatable is Fatu and while great is a just another typical monster heel. Darby and Sammy have unique characters that are multi layered and getting over huge.
> 
> But of course they're SMALL right?


Better at what? One of them is a cunt who takes advantage of addicts for his own entertainment and the other, like I've said before, needs time. He is flippy and small yeah, but he needs to work on a lot before he should be on TV. Also the AEW talent I named is for the most part, terrible.. The other wrestlers I named would give this company a boost, instead of idling with average talent that barely anybody wants to watch.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

El Hammerstone said:


> Yes, it's because they're SMALL, yet he named Flip, Jiro, and Ridgway who are obviously giant mountains of muscle. I like Darby and Sammy btw, so don't start down that route.


Mate, don't bring logic into this argument. It will get you nowhere. I like Sammy but despise Darby as a human being. The difference between the small guys I named and the small guys I'd have them replace is that they know when and why to do certain moves and they can sell. I just hope the bucks aren't coaching in AEW


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

El Hammerstone said:


> Yes, it's because they're SMALL, yet he named Flip, Jiro, and Ridgway who are obviously giant mountains of muscle. I like Darby and Sammy btw, so don't start down that route.





El Hammerstone said:


> Yes, it's because they're SMALL, yet he named Flip, Jiro, and Ridgway who are obviously giant mountains of muscle. I like Darby and Sammy btw, so don't start down that route.


That was in reference to all the AEW guys he named being constantly called out for their size, not the ones in the other group. 

Thanks for playing though.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Taroostyles said:


> That was in reference to all the AEW guys he named being constantly called out for their size, not the ones in the other group.
> 
> Thanks for playing though.


You're welcome.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Taroostyles said:


> That was in reference to all the AEW guys he named being constantly called out for their size, not the ones in the other group.
> 
> Thanks for playing though.


Do you not understand the comparison he was making though? If I had a problem with them being little, why would I list other small wrestlers?


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Cult03 said:


> Do you not understand the comparison he was making though? If I had a problem with them being little, why would I list other small wrestlers?


On the topic of smaller wrestlers, I'll throw out another name that I think would be a terrific addition, that being David Starr. Seriously, watch these two matches with Jordan Devlin and WALTER and try telling me the guy doesn't have a great sense of ring psychology:


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Taroostyles said:


> Except both Darby and Guevara are better than anyone you listed there. Only one debatable is Fatu and while great is a just another typical monster heel. Darby and Sammy have unique characters that are multi layered and getting over huge.
> 
> But of course they're SMALL right?


What makes them better? And what exactly is unique and multilayered about Sammy? Just because Sammy is doing cocky heel well doesn't mean he's unique. I mean unless you're going to say he carries a camera that makes him unique. Which even then paparazzi productions did that in TNA


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Sammy Guevara is talented as heck, but he's green as goose shit too. He's in no way ready to be a top guy. He needs to grow into himself a lot, and he'll get there, but they need other guys.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

El Hammerstone said:


> On the topic of smaller wrestlers, I'll throw out another name that I think would be a terrific addition, that being David Starr. Seriously, watch these two matches with Jordan Devlin and WALTER and try telling me the guy doesn't have a great sense of ring psychology:


This is what confuses me. There's just so many better options. I'm starting to think the talent AEW have don't want to be overshadowed.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Cult03 said:


> This is what confuses me. There's just so many better options. I'm starting to think the talent AEW have don't want to be overshadowed.


Holy shit, I was having this thought just the other day. I can't remember if I've verbalised it here in the past. 

I know it's come up with The Young Bucks, and why they might not want Jay and Mark Briscoe hovering around. But I was thinking about Cody. He's been the best babyface on this thing, and he gets the big entrances and the Triple H-esque focus. 

I don't want to be the guy that finds a way to trash Cody, lol, but what if he's not just towing company line with all the talk about buffets and such, and he deliberately wants everyone else to be a goof so that he can be the only serious babyface?

I'd like to think that Cody would do the best thing for the promotion if he were the one booking everything, but it's just something I've been pondering.


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

The Wood said:


> Holy shit, I was having this thought just the other day. I can't remember if I've verbalised it here in the past.
> 
> I know it's come up with The Young Bucks, and why they might not want Jay and Mark Briscoe hovering around. But I was thinking about Cody. He's been the best babyface on this thing, and he gets the big entrances and the Triple H-esque focus.
> 
> ...


They're already getting paid. Things are starting to point in the not wanting to be overshadowed direction at this point. If Randy comes in, Cody isn't the best 2nd gen star anymore as well. They're making their friends look good


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

The Wood said:


> Well this is just a bad and immature take..


Did I ask you? It is mine.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

The Wood said:


> Holy shit, I was having this thought just the other day. I can't remember if I've verbalised it here in the past.
> 
> I know it's come up with The Young Bucks, and why they might not want Jay and Mark Briscoe hovering around. But I was thinking about Cody. He's been the best babyface on this thing, and he gets the big entrances and the Triple H-esque focus.
> 
> ...


I’m pretty sure I mentioned that last week as to why the show wasn’t as “full”, so to speak.

“No one puts baby in the corner.”


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

I hope it's not the case, but when you see obvious talent acquisitions being missed, it does make you wonder.


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## incomplete moron (Nov 28, 2019)

The Wood said:


> Even Chad Gable. That guy is sooooo fucking good. Shit gimmick, but the guy is the second coming of Kurt Angle. You put that little freak out there against Okada and I guarantee you break Dave’s scale again. “I was in the Olympics, you just carried the torch.” Bam. Tokyo Dome main event once Chas Betts wins the G1 Climax and becomes only the second gaijin to do so.


wait what? u have to be trollin with this gable shit right?! second comin of angle lmao I died,seriously wtf?? angle is 10 fuckin cm taller than him,weighs more,has charisma and mic skills etc while gable is beyond bland,uncharismatic and boring, so shit gimmick for shit talent


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

incomplete moron said:


> wait what? u have to be trollin with this gable shit right?! second comin of angle lmao I died,seriously wtf?? angle is 10 fuckin cm taller than him,weighs more,has charisma and mic skills etc while gable is beyond bland,uncharismatic and boring, so shit gimmick for shit talent


Whatever you reckon.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

On JR's podcast today he was asked what the #1 thing AEW is looking for talent-wise right now. He said athletic big men, especially for heels. Thinks they might have too many faces right now.

Also was asked for his thoughts on Cornette. He said he and Cornette are still friends, he just thinks his criticisms are a bit too coarse. He said Cornette is saying what many people behind the scenes are also saying. Hopefully they keep improving. He also said he thinks there is too much overt criticism from people and they are well aware of their shortcomings behind the scenes. Great news. He agrees Cornette should come in and manage The Revival. Imagine THAT heat.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

No surprise that JR thinks similarly to Cornette. Arn Anderson would be the same. He takes a more "Well, the crowd likes it..." rationale to keep those paychecks coming. I'm sure it really is an old school/new school divide, with MJF probably falling on the old school side. Jericho's boys might fall that way too.


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## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

I thought he was a bit too critical of the statistics, this week. Considering the singles stats refer to multi person matches, they don't tell the whole story. I agree with him about not showing the overall records.

He's spot on about AEW damaging PAC and Hangman Page. PAC in particular does not deserve to be 50-50'd. That's a major issue with the NJPW inspired no DQ, no count out approach. They should be uncommon but not rare. Had PAC been DQ'd against Moxley and walked out of the tag match against Kenny and Page, he'd be in a strong position to challenge for the world title.

Disagree with him about Rhio not going through the table. Going through is such a cliche that it looks more bad ass and real when they don't.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

The Wood said:


> No surprise that JR thinks similarly to Cornette. Arn Anderson would be the same. He takes a more "Well, the crowd likes it..." rationale to keep those paychecks coming. I'm sure it really is an old school/new school divide, with MJF probably falling on the old school side. Jericho's boys might fall that way too.


So, JR only takes “well, the crowd likes it...” approach to keep the paychecks coming, but on air, he says things to keep his integrity, instead of selling the match like a commentator is supposed to do?

No. He is saying the crowd loves it, because the crowd loves it. He just hopes they can find a way to find some common ground whereas Cornette believes wrestling should be forever stuck in his 80s head.


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## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

Lheurch said:


> On JR's podcast today he was asked what the #1 thing AEW is looking for talent-wise right now. He said athletic big men, especially for heels. Thinks they might have too many faces right now.
> 
> Also was asked for his thoughts on Cornette. He said he and Cornette are still friends, he just thinks his criticisms are a bit too coarse. He said Cornette is saying what many people behind the scenes are also saying. Hopefully they keep improving. He also said he thinks there is too much overt criticism from people and they are well aware of their shortcomings behind the scenes. Great news. He agrees Cornette should come in and manage The Revival. Imagine THAT heat.


It's encouraging to hear that they're all self aware of the TV show they're making. When you have a mind set like that, you have shows like this weeks show. This weeks show was excellent.

AEW is hungry as hell. They're not always perfect, they're failing in ways that NXT does not, but they're clearly all open minded and self aware, and for me the high points vastly out weigh the lows.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

DaSlacker said:


> I thought he was a bit too critical of the statistics, this week. Considering the singles stats refer to multi person matches, they don't tell the whole story. I agree with him about not showing the overall records.


If the stats don't tell you what is actually going on _why have the fucking stats?_ 

And why are there so many multi-person matches?



bdon said:


> So, JR only takes “well, the crowd likes it...” approach to keep the paychecks coming, but on air, he says things to keep his integrity, instead of selling the match like a commentator is supposed to do?
> 
> No. He is saying the crowd loves it, because the crowd loves it. He just hopes they can find a way to find some common ground whereas Cornette believes wrestling should be forever stuck in his 80s head.


No, I meant that about Arn Anderson. But yes, JR is collecting a paycheck too. For every fan that creams their pants because Orange Cassidy does a tope with his hands in his pockets, there are one hundred who will think "What the fuck is this shit?" JR knows that and Double-A knows that. JR protects himself and Double-A says shit like "If you asked me a few years ago I'd have given you a different answer, but the fans love it." Which is code for "I hate this fucking shit, but I can't say I fucking hate it because I like getting paid by this money mark." It's very easy to find on YouTube. Look up "Arn Anderson Orange Cassidy" or whatever. 

And you've jumped on the bullshit straw-man of Cornette being stuck in the 80s. Cornette thinks wrestling should be logical. That's when it draws. Says plenty of good things about modern wrestling that is logical. It's the silly bullshit that he hates, and that's why wrestling is in the gutter. And you admit that it's in the gutter.


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## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

The Wood said:


> If the stats don't tell you what is actually going on _why have the fucking stats?_
> 
> And why are there so many multi-person matches?
> 
> ...


I assume they were just trying to be different to WWE, who often have matches without rhyme and reason. Good intentions but I don't think it adds anything in a 'sport' filled with either DQs or multi person matches. They got rid of the former but forgot about the latter. Or found out how hard it is to protect your stars without using either multi person, cheap finish or jobbers.

They could have omitted the the multi persom matches but that wouldn't be more or less logical. Like a lot of little things, Khan and The Elite didn't think things through before the first PPV. Or don't think it matters in pro wrestling anymore.


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