# Is AEW putting WWE out of business?



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

This is a bait thread and it's so very obvious. If you were trying to be subtle you've failed.

Answer is no by the way. They only do just over half a million viewers


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.


----------



## Mr316 (Dec 3, 2020)

If WWE ever goes out of the business, AEW is definitely going out of business. Raw is still doubling Dynamite’s numbers of viewers and Raw absolutely sucks. Like I mentioned previously, AEW didn’t change the game. It’s the same wrestling fans who have been watching for years. It’s only 800k and sometimes it even goes down to 700k.

Now people will say, it’s only their first year, give them time. Were not in 1995. AEW is not suddently gonna gain 1 million viewers. They had to take risks, dare to be different from the competition. They (Cody and his friends) were arrogant and thought their presence would be enough.


----------



## Claro De Luna (Sep 11, 2017)

Chip Chipperson said:


> This is a bait thread and it's so very obvious. If you were trying to be subtle you've failed.
> 
> Answer is no by the way. They only do just over half a million viewers


Why would you say its bait? Jeez man this place ain't only about your own thoughts. Ffs if you dont want to participate in the thread then dont. Just go away.

Let's put the tv numbers aside, you cant just measure popularity based on who watches live on tv. Do you understand this?


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Claro De Luna said:


> Why would you say its bait? Jeez man this place ain't only about your own thoughts. Ffs if you dont want to participate in the thread then dont. Just go away.
> 
> Let's put the tv numbers aside, you cant just measure popularity past on who watches live on tv. Do you understand this?


WWE is a billion dollar promotion. They could lose everything and still coast along for years on the network, company investments and saved cash.

The Dub is a bad start up started by a guy who has well under five years in the wrestling business.


----------



## AthleticGirth (Jul 25, 2020)

All WWE's wounds are self inflicted. 

So much quality talent, so much production quality - but a stale old man making all the decisions.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Aew might have a tiny minuscule hand in the ratings drop but tbh WWE is killing itself.

Shit product that hasn't changed in ages,if anything its only gotten worse.Vince is stuck in his ways and it will be what if anything ever ends the company. 

They can't attract new viewers and can't seem to keep old viewers around consistently and now are starting to lose demographics to AEW.They can always pop ratings short term with a few big names but the storylines and overall performances are half assed and boring.


----------



## Boldgerg (Apr 2, 2017)

A genuine thread about WWE's continuing decline and the impact that AEW might be having towards it - "Hahahaha this is a bait thread, nice try!".

Multiple threads and posts per day slagging AEW with the same things being said a thousand times - "Yes, this is fine and perfectly logical".


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

No.... c’mon

its like asking is Nickelodeon putting Disney out of business


----------



## Boldgerg (Apr 2, 2017)

Let's put it this way: I and two of my friends have all completely stopped watching WWE entirely since AEW started. Undoubtedly that will apply to a number of other people.

Could be hundreds, could be tens of thousands. The impact may be negligible but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist at all.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Boldgerg said:


> A genuine thread about WWE's continuing decline and the impact that AEW might be having towards it - "Hahahaha this is a bait thread, nice try!".
> 
> Multiple threads and posts per day slagging AEW with the same things being said a thousand times - "Yes, this is fine and perfectly logical".


Stop whining. We get it, you hate "da haterz"


----------



## Thomazbr (Apr 26, 2009)

It won't be because of AEW but I don't see a way for WWE to resurface. I'm not saying that it's going to die, but I also don't see how it could rise. A lot of goodwill has been burned by WWE. You can't even make the joke people used to do of "see you next week" because people aren't seeing it next week anymore.

You'd need a massive total rebranding in hopes to bring any of the people who have been burned.


----------



## Boldgerg (Apr 2, 2017)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Stop whining. We get it, you hate "da haterz"


The irony in you telling someone to "stop whining".


----------



## EyeFoxUp (Apr 9, 2020)

Honest answer: Of course but only in the slightest degree. Ask me again in a year or two and the answer could different.


----------



## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

🤣 No and this bait thread needs to be closed immediately.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Ozell Gray said:


> 🤣 No and this bait thread needs to be closed immediately.


@Firefromthegods 

Can we close her up, old mate?


----------



## Commissioner Michaels (Jul 17, 2014)

WWE is putting WWE out of business. Fact.


----------



## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> @Firefromthegods
> 
> Can we close her up, old mate?


The mods need to ban to either ban this guy permanently for baiting or close this thread but I’d rather both personally.


----------



## Dark Emperor (Jul 31, 2007)

You guys do realise Smackdown is their no1 show now right and those ratings have been stable @ 2.2-2.3m since the Summer after going up from under 2m. Its currently almost 3x AEW average rating. 

I agree that Raw looks to be in trouble but Smackdown is getting 500-700k more than that show. 

3 of the 5 biggest names are on Smackdown in Reigns, Rollins, Banks. Only Drew & Orton have any individual star power on Raw. So for a 3hr show, it's no surprise its rating is way down. 

All this is irrelevant as the company are making record profits so they do not go out of business just because less people in USA watch it Live. Same can be said for AEW but they have less revenue streams so TV ratings a bit more important to them.


----------



## Pablo Escobar (Mar 22, 2007)

Or it could be their 7-10 hours, or more of programming a week, that is slowly burning out their audience year by year, for about the past 15 years.


----------



## Thomazbr (Apr 26, 2009)

Pablo Escobar said:


> Or it could be their 7-10 hours, or more of programming a week, that is slowly burning out their audience year by year, for about the past 15 years.


Trying to watch all of the weekly main wrestling programs in america really is a MISERABLE experience.


----------



## Claro De Luna (Sep 11, 2017)

Chip Chipperson said:


> @Firefromthegods
> 
> Can we close her up, old mate?


Lol now you tell the mods what to do. @Firefromthegods this is a genuine discussion thread please keep it going. Also I dont like how some of these members try to dictate what the mods do. Can you please show fairness and not bend to these members.


----------



## Qudhufo (Jun 25, 2019)

Lol u can’t be serious


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

TrollKiller said:


> imagine being a member of this forum for a year and a half, having 7,000 replies and not being a troll. reply numbers rivaling members who have belonged for over 10 years lol... very telling.


Imagine having to sign up to this forum, make a fake email, use a VPN to hide who you are to take a shot that you're either too afraid to make on your real account or because you're permanently banned.



Claro De Luna said:


> Lol now you tell the mods what to do. @Firefromthegods this is a genuine discussion thread please keep it going. Also I dont like how some of these members try to dictate what the mods do. Can you please show fairness and not bend to these members.


I'm not telling I'm asking hence the question mark.

FFTG tells me no all the time. We don't dictate anything.


----------



## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

TrollKiller said:


> imagine being a member of this forum for a year and a half, having 7,000 replies and not being a troll. reply numbers rivaling members who have belonged for over 10 years lol... very telling.


You must be someone’s burner account. You joined 19 minutes ago and already talking about someone else’s number of posts. Imagine creating an account and already calling someone a “troll.”


----------



## Darren Criss (Jul 23, 2015)

Obviously there are people who stop watching a show to watch another one even if they are not televised at the same time, but I don't think AEW is removing the ratings from RAW; the audience had been falling for years.


----------



## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

WWE is its own worse enemy. Has all the talent in the world but cant book it worth shit. It's all on WWE. Not AEW.


----------



## rich110991 (Aug 27, 2020)

People in this thread are funny.

My interest in WWE has plummeted since AEW came along and surely I’m not the only one? There is now a better alternative.

However... WWE only has itself to blame.


----------



## A PG Attitude (Nov 5, 2012)

rich110991 said:


> People in this thread are funny.
> 
> My interest in WWE has plummeted since AEW came along and surely I’m not the only one? There is now a better alternative.
> 
> However... WWE only has itself to blame.


That's what happened to me. Gave up on WWE right around the time Dynamite started. Might have happened much earlier had there already been a decent alternative.


----------



## Dickhead1990 (Aug 31, 2016)

I would say that it's lowering NXT's viewership, but it's not putting WWE out of business. WWE is doing that, and has done it for a long time, to itself. AEW is just offering former fans an alternative, along with all of the other major indie feds. On balance though, WWE is more profitable than ever, which is the real tell-tale sign that business is going well. Let's see for how long with their recent troubles.

It has to be said though, that in the last year, I have found that I no longer even check results for WWE shows. WWE.com used to be a daily or every two day visit for me. I can't remember the last time I looked at it.


----------



## rich110991 (Aug 27, 2020)

A PG Attitude said:


> That's what happened to me. Gave up on WWE right around the time Dynamite started. Might have happened much earlier had there already been a decent alternative.


Exactly mate, we are proof of it!


----------



## 304418 (Jul 2, 2014)

No. AEW is just exposing how far WWE has fallen.

That they regularly beat NXT on a weekly basis, have beaten Raw in the key demo, and AEW’s total viewers does not differ much from Smackdown’s when its aired on FS1 should be embarrassing for WWE. Considering WWE has 50+ years of history, a litany of superstars and legends at their disposal, and a library of their matches on a streaming service. While AEW is only 2 years old, working with names that aren’t that big in the mainstream, and still charges $50 for their PPVs. And for almost half of AEW existence, they have been putting on shows in mostly empty arenas.


----------



## I eat mangos (Sep 23, 2014)

If anything, AEW are probably helping. I know that I would have given up on the WWE if not for TNA at points, because the fact that I still tuned into TNA every once in a while meant I was still invested enough in wrestling as a whole to catch up with WWE when it was interesting. In kind, I still tune into AEW every now and again because I still watch wrestling for Smackdown. 

The day I don't give a crap about any of it is the day they've ALL lost a fan.


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

@Claro De Luna don't worry thread stays open. While I think aew is far from the thing that will kill wwe (that being there own hubris) it atleast keeps things interesting.

It also depends on how aggressive they want to be


----------



## Stellar (May 30, 2016)

Look at Impact Wrestling. They have somehow survived after such a downward trend. 7 years ago was when the Hogan era ended, which is what contributed to TNA/Impact bleeding money and eventually scaling back while they bounced from channel to channel. If they can find a way to stay alive then WWE will for sure stay alive no matter what happens. FOX did make a huge deal with them and that has been their saving grace over the past few years.

It's going to take a whole lot for over a decade at least for WWE to completely go out of business. They have such a hold in the wrestling bubble with being a household name to the casuals as well as us hardcore fans that it's not possible for them to simply die within a handful of years. When people think of wrestling they think of WWE.


----------



## Ger (Jul 20, 2018)

Let AEW focus on doing good shows on the long run and forget that rivalry.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

If WWE dies then AEW is going with it.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

Pro Wrestling is dead, thats the truth.

Nothing any company is doing appeals to the masses, its just niche shit. Just this ocean of bland spotmonkeys trying to out flip each other.

AEW isn't killing the WWE, the WWE is killing itself by building its product around people like Drew McIntyre and Seth Rollins.


----------



## Ger (Jul 20, 2018)

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> If WWE dies then AEW is going with it.


You could even say wrestling will die with it. At the moment in germany there are no local shows, you know why, and WWE is the only promotion left with a free TV show every week. You cannot watch normal AEW without extra effort and buying a one PPV at SKY costs you 16€, which is 19.5$. Beside the extra costs for basic-SKY ofc. So you can watch SD & RAW on free TV and pay nothing, or you pay 9.79€ extra for WWE network to have a PPV + all the NXT stuff from this months.

Sidenote:
As long AEW got no structures to catch that up, WWE being out of business just would take wrestling out of some countries at the moment for some people. So it is very strange time wishing WWE being out of business. After the C-crisis we can talk again.


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

$118 million in net profit for first 9 months of 2020 so I think WWE are fine for a while!




Verbatim17 said:


> No. AEW is just exposing how far WWE has fallen.
> 
> That they regularly beat NXT on a weekly basis, have beaten Raw in the key demo, and AEW’s total viewers does not differ much from Smackdown’s when its aired on FS1 should be embarrassing for WWE. Considering WWE has 50+ years of history, a litany of superstars and legends at their disposal, and a library of their matches on a streaming service. While AEW is only 2 years old, working with names that aren’t that big in the mainstream, and still charges $50 for their PPVs. And for almost half of AEW existence, they have been putting on shows in mostly empty arenas.


I mean if age meant anything then TNA should be drawing tens of millions now considering they pulled 2 million in 2010. Or Ultimate Fighter did 5.5 million in 2009 so should be setting record numbers now. That's not how tv work. Raw has been on TV nearly 30 years and remains top #3 each Monday, how many other tv programs can say that.

TNT prime time average is more than 3 times that of FS1 so 1 million viewers on FS1 is equivalent of over 3 million on TNT 115 Cable Channels Ranked by 2019 Viewership - Yes, Comedy.TV Is Still Dead Last


----------



## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

validreasoning said:


> I mean if age meant anything then TNA should be drawing tens of millions now considering they pulled 2 million in 2010. Or Ultimate Fighter did 5.5 million in 2009 so should be setting record numbers now. That's not how tv work. Raw has been on TV nearly 30 years and remains top #3 each Monday, how many other tv programs can say that.
> 
> TNT prime time average is more than 3 times that of FS1 so 1 million viewers on FS1 is equivalent of over 3 million on TNT 115 Cable Channels Ranked by 2019 Viewership - Yes, Comedy.TV Is Still Dead Last


Doctor Who has been running 50 years. They set a record low rating "The final episode of series 12 drew in just 4.6 million viewers".. The lowest ever. Setting aside that the Doctor had been reincarnated as a woman, which gave them a ratings boost for the first season with her, this is telling about TV viewership in general.

AEW has nothing to do with the declining ratings of WWE, anyone who claims that is either ignorant or trying to antagonize someone.
If WWE ever dies, we can paraphrase the old Bret Hart line to "WWE screwed WWE". Even if they lose their tv deal next time it´s up for negotiation, they can just continue on the network which a lot of wrestling fans (not just WWE fans) have because of the library of old wrestling.


----------



## Thomazbr (Apr 26, 2009)

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> Pro Wrestling is dead, thats the truth.
> 
> Nothing any company is doing appeals to the masses, its just niche shit. Just this ocean of bland spotmonkeys trying to out flip each other.
> 
> AEW isn't killing the WWE, the WWE is killing itself by building its product around people like Drew McIntyre and Seth Rollins.


Notorious High Flyer Drew McIntyre


----------



## TheDraw (Jun 27, 2019)

The WWE is like Nintendo. No matter how shitty their little product is they will always have millions and millions who will buy in because of routine and nostolgic reasons.


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

yeahright2 said:


> Doctor Who has been running 50 years. They set a record low rating "The final episode of series 12 drew in just 4.6 million viewers".. The lowest ever. Setting aside that the Doctor had been reincarnated as a woman, which gave them a ratings boost for the first season with her, this is telling about TV viewership in general.
> 
> AEW has nothing to do with the declining ratings of WWE, anyone who claims that is either ignorant or trying to antagonize someone.
> If WWE ever dies, we can paraphrase the old Bret Hart line to "WWE screwed WWE". Even if they lose their tv deal next time it´s up for negotiation, they can just continue on the network which a lot of wrestling fans (not just WWE fans) have because of the library of old wrestling.


Doctor Who was off tv for nearly 20 years too and isn't weekly and didn't suddenly go to 3 hours weekly either.

USA should take huge blame for Raw numbers. People aren't going to watch 3 hours of something every week. WCW business nosedived as soon as they went to 3 hours and they had greatest roster ever assembled.

Funny nobody talks SD numbers. A decade ago SD was pulling 2.5 million, last week 2.2 million..not 3 hours https://web.archive.org/web/2010112...-smackdown-drop-back-big-time-rush-more/73059


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Yeah three hours is too long for a weekly show. Keep it punchy.


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Raw ratings this week increased to 1.69 million from 1.5, while AEW's fell down to 800k from 995k. 

I like AEW and don't even watch WWE, but cmon guys.


----------



## Shleppy (Jul 6, 2020)

No chance in hell

If you look at it objectively, AEW is nothing but a pimple on WWE’s ass

The delusion is getting ridiculous


----------



## Ger (Jul 20, 2018)

TheDraw said:


> The WWE is like Nintendo. No matter how shitty their little product is they will always have millions and millions who will buy in because of routine and nostolgic reasons.


Yeah, I remember WWE2k20 was such a great and stable game on PS and PC. Was totally not shitty, eh?


----------



## midgetlover69 (Nov 27, 2016)

Southerner said:


> Look at Impact Wrestling. They have somehow survived after such a downward trend. 7 years ago was when the Hogan era ended, which is what contributed to TNA/Impact bleeding money and eventually scaling back while they bounced from channel to channel. If they can find a way to stay alive then WWE will for sure stay alive no matter what happens. FOX did make a huge deal with them and that has been their saving grace over the past few years.
> 
> It's going to take a whole lot for over a decade at least for WWE to completely go out of business. They have such a hold in the wrestling bubble with being a household name to the casuals as well as us hardcore fans that it's not possible for them to simply die within a handful of years. When people think of wrestling they think of WWE.


terrible example. Nobody watches tna anymore. Tna is an indie promotion with a bottom of the barrel tv deal


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

midgetlover69 said:


> terrible example. Nobody watches tna anymore. Tna is an indie promotion with a bottom of the barrel tv deal


Preeeee much.

Large Indy. Reminds me of dying days ECW


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Hahahahaha! 

Oh, you're serious? No.


----------



## DJ Punk (Sep 1, 2016)

Nah. I say this time and time again, but the fact that people haven't quit watching yet proves the quality of a product has nothing to do with ratings. WWE loyalists will continually feed on the bs WWE gives them. Sad, really.


----------



## Brad Boyd (Jan 28, 2020)

Everyone shitting on WWE acting like aew is that much better. Yup another day at the ol AEW section.


----------



## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

Even though a lot of WWE is creatively bankrupt nowadays, they are FAR from going bankrupt. They are raking in cash right now with various TV deals and the like, so the notion that anybody is putting them out of business is laughable. 

However, in due time I can see some networks giving WWE some more heat given the ratings AEW gets versus the cost to air them. AEW as a whole is much cheaper since they were unproven, but are putting up relatively consistent numbers.


----------



## NapperX (Jan 2, 2014)

Claro De Luna said:


> With Raw getting record low ratings could this have anything to do with AEWs popularity? Surely it cant be a coincidence that AEW starts up and WWE are now practically on their knees pleading with USA network? There must be some sort of knock on effect. I know some of you are going to say that neither company shares same audience but this is the picture from Television numbers. What about the fans ditching WWE tv but now watching AEW via a streaming platform?


You are implying that RAW had record highs right before AEW, mistake #1. They don't air on the same night, either, mistake #2. You don't know what "coincidence" means when these aren't even correlated events, and you sit there trying to create a causal link, mistake #3. Where are your so-called sources?. Had this been NXT against AEW, you could have had a valid point, but you are comparing shows on two different nights on two different networks. WWE had a record revenue year for a company to be "going out of business". Sure, we don't agree with the creative direction of the company, but to imply they are "going out of business" when they have record profit shows your finance skills or lack thereof. Do yourself a favor and reveal your sources regarding WWE "going out of business" as you imply with that title of a topic.


----------



## InexorableJourney (Sep 10, 2016)

WWE has the advantage over AEW that it does not face direct competition against it's TV shows on Monday and Fridays.

If today's RAW and Smackdown were running against 1996 wCw Monday Nitro and wCw Saturday Night respectively, they'd no longer be pulling in millions of viewers they'd be lucky to be in the hundred of thousands.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

InexorableJourney said:


> WWE has the advantage over AEW that it does not face direct competition against it's TV shows on Monday and Fridays.
> 
> If today's RAW and Smackdown were running against 1996 wCw Monday Nitro and wCw Saturday Night respectively, they'd no longer be pulling in millions of viewers they'd be lucky to be in the hundred of thousands.


What about Monday Night Football?


----------



## Ozell Gray (Jan 2, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> What about Monday Night Football?


You just ruined his narrative Chip. He’s probably going to gloss over that and say “I was talking about another wrestling show.” What makes Raw and SmackDown’s numbers more impressive than Dynamite’s is that Raw is doing those numbers against Monday Night Football, SmackDown is doing it a day where it’s known as “the death spot,” and Dynamite is doing its numbers against a developmental and it’s only a hundred thousand difference between the two shows.


----------



## JasmineAEW (Oct 19, 2020)

My answer is no. While I think AEW has had an indirect negative impact on the WWE, 95% of the WWE’s problems are of their own doing. And if they can get themselves into their slump, they can also dig their way out of it. It will just take some time.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

No. Only way WWE goes down if they royally fuck themselves somehow.


----------



## Smithy.89 (Apr 9, 2019)

No


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> Even though a lot of WWE is creatively bankrupt nowadays, they are FAR from going bankrupt. They are raking in cash right now with various TV deals and the like, so the notion that anybody is putting them out of business is laughable.
> 
> However, in due time I can see some networks giving WWE some more heat given the ratings AEW gets versus the cost to air them. AEW as a whole is much cheaper since they were unproven, but are putting up relatively consistent numbers.


Consistent numbers without growth when they have the same platform as Raw. There’s no reason for USA to drop Raw when it gets so much more than AEW does. The money you’d save in paying AEW chips is going to come out of what you lose in advertising.

Raw and SmackDown are very good deals. People look at the nine digits and think it’s some massive loss to these networks, but they’re raking in way more than that in advertising revenue. Now put Dynamite in its slot. These things are proportionate all the way down.

Keep in mind that AEW splits as revenue with TNT with $45 million in rights fees. That would imply that AEW is bringing in more than $90 million in ad revenue to make this even worth it. The WWE is obviously getting more on ad revenue then either network is paying for them. Are they going to want to close that gap just to save money on AEW?

Let’s say SmackDown is bringing FOX in $400 million in ad revenue. Are they going to sacrifice that $200 million in profit just to save $150 million on AEW? Even without the ad split they’d only come out $45 million ahead instead of $200 million ahead.



InexorableJourney said:


> WWE has the advantage over AEW that it does not face direct competition against it's TV shows on Monday and Fridays.
> 
> If today's RAW and Smackdown were running against 1996 wCw Monday Nitro and wCw Saturday Night respectively, they'd no longer be pulling in millions of viewers they'd be lucky to be in the hundred of thousands.


Well, it faces football and Friday and Monday are both tougher nights for television for different reasons.

If WCW were around, it may not do well at all. If a good product were around, both WWE and AEW may crumble. It might enhance both products because they’d need to survive.

And, come on — imagine AEW against WCW. They’d be in the tens of thousands.


----------



## Diamond Cutter (May 3, 2010)

WWE is terrible. How anybody who watched through the Golden/Att/Ruthless eras could think it's still at-all watchable, is beyond me


----------



## Pentagon Senior (Nov 16, 2019)

No, but they've probably stolen a chunk of fans who will not go back to WWE whilst AEW exists. Me included


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Diamond Cutter said:


> WWE is terrible. How anybody who watched through the Golden/Att/Ruthless eras could think it's still at-all watchable, is beyond me


Don’t disagree. But I don’t see anyone who did can’t also see that AEW faces A LOT of the same problems. Neither product compares to something that genuinely delivered on anticipation as opposed to relying on hope.

Roman Reigns is the best thing in wrestling. It might bother people to hear that, but it’s the truth. He doesn’t have that babyface to go against, but there’s a reason SmackDown has been somewhat revived since he’s been back (well, survived, maybe).

It’s probably SmackDown > NXT/AEW (depending on preference) > Raw at the moment. And that’s not to say that SmackDown measures up to anyone’s ideal standard for a wrestling program either.


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

Diamond Cutter said:


> WWE is terrible. How anybody who watched through the Golden/Att/Ruthless eras could think it's still at-all watchable, is beyond me


The classic ruthless agression era where Vince had people kiss his ass on live tv,. Eugene and Heidenreich got major pushes on biggest ppvs of the year, Goldberg wore a wig, Al Wilson was in a major storyline, Hogan and Piper feuded again 18 years after their initial hot program, barely mobile Scott Steiner and Kevin Nash mainevented. Big fucking Show beat Lesnar for title who then had a disastrous babyface run before turning back heel 9 months later

I could go on all night but that period fucking sucked.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

validreasoning said:


> The classic ruthless agression era where Vince had people kiss his ass on live tv,. Eugene and Heidenreich got major pushes on biggest ppvs of the year, Goldberg wore a wig, Al Wilson was in a major storyline, Hogan and Piper feuded again 18 years after their initial hot program, barely mobile Scott Steiner and Kevin Nash mainevented. Big fucking Show beat Lesnar for title who then had a disastrous babyface run before turning back heel 9 months later
> 
> I could go on all night but that period fucking sucked.


People do romanticise it too much. It’s been a steady decline in interest in a while. But that doesn’t mean the quality has been dipping constantly either. You got some good shit in that “Ruthless Aggression Era” (hate that name, because they were searching for an identity). But look at the card for this week’s SmackDown:



Spoiler




Roman Reigns vs. Kevin Owens in a Steel Cage for the Universal Title
Charlotte Flair & Asuka vs. Sasha Banks & Bianca Belair vs. Bayley & Carmella for the Women’s Tag Team Titles
Daniel Bryan vs. Jey Uso
Sami Zayn vs. Big E in a Lumberjack Match for the Intercontinental Title




That card looks pretty fucking solid. People will probably have fond memories of this era, as weird as that is to believe.

Obviously it can’t just be cards and matches. It’s how they are put into context and the emotions they make you feel. A lot of people just don’t care about WWE right now. And that’s fine. But taking a step back and looking at their output and what a general audience is interested in?

Yeah...it’s no contest, really.


----------



## rich110991 (Aug 27, 2020)

Why are people who don’t like AEW, even going in the AEW section lol?

I don’t like Impact so I don’t go to that section because I don’t need to talk about it.


----------



## TAC41 (Jun 8, 2016)

WWE during the holiday season going up against a massive NFL game still did almost triple the numbers of AEW. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

rich110991 said:


> Why are people who don’t like AEW, even going in the AEW section lol?
> 
> I don’t like Impact so I don’t go to that section because I don’t need to talk about it.


People who don’t like WWE have been following it for years. Some people like wrestling in general and want to see it get better. Others like talking about bad wrestling. Others want to talk the business of wrestling.

That’s cool, mate. You do you.


----------



## rich110991 (Aug 27, 2020)

The Wood said:


> People who don’t like WWE have been following it for years. Some people like wrestling in general and want to see it get better. Others like talking about bad wrestling. Others want to talk the business of wrestling.
> 
> That’s cool, mate. You do you.


I will mate, I’ll carry on talking about things that I like and not worrying about things that I don’t. It’s very peaceful you know. Bliss.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

No of course not. WWE ain't going outta business any time soon. AEW is a lot better as a wrestling promotion though, so on an individual basis with most folk who watch AEW, WWE is dead or "out of business" for them.


----------



## Shock Street (Oct 27, 2020)

AEW wishes


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

rich110991 said:


> I will mate, I’ll carry on talking about things that I like and not worrying about things that I don’t. It’s very peaceful you know. Bliss.


Yep, so peaceful you come into a forum to pick a fight with people you don’t like. Sounds ironic to me.


----------



## rich110991 (Aug 27, 2020)

The Wood said:


> Yep, so peaceful you come into a forum to pick a fight with people you don’t like. Sounds ironic to me.


It was simply an observation. And compared to some people here, I wrote it in a friendly way.

I’m not sure who these “people I don’t like” are either? Not that I want you to answer because this back and forth is already taking up too much of my time.


----------



## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

Boldgerg said:


> Let's put it this way: I and two of my friends have all completely stopped watching WWE entirely since AEW started. Undoubtedly that will apply to a number of other people.
> 
> Could be hundreds, could be tens of thousands. The impact may be negligible but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist at all.



Yeah uh, negligible to the point of nothingness. RAW gets the same 1.6 million, AEW gets the same 800k, SD gets the same 2.3. Rinse, repeat.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

rich110991 said:


> It was simply an observation. And compared to some people here, I wrote it in a friendly way.
> 
> I’m not sure who these “people I don’t like” are either? Not that I want you to answer because this back and forth is already taking up too much of my time.


See ya. Thanks for your condescending “observations.” 



RainmakerV2 said:


> Yeah uh, negligible to the point of nothingness. RAW gets the same 1.6 million, AEW gets the same 800k, SD gets the same 2.3. Rinse, repeat.


It’s amazing how many people don’t get this.


----------



## kamaro011 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Wood said:


> See ya. Thanks for your condescending “observations.”


There will be no Wrestling Forum as we know it, if WWE "Hater" and "Hate" discussion banning exist pre-AEW Launch.

The same thing those that want AEW "Hater" and this "Hate" discussion should go away from this place.

This place will turn to be a deader than a graveyard at night, except you can hear a few whisper from echo chamber that says "AEW...AEW"


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

RainmakerV2 said:


> Yeah uh, negligible to the point of nothingness. RAW gets the same 1.6 million, AEW gets the same 800k, SD gets the same 2.3. Rinse, repeat.


Cable ratings are not an indicator of the entire audience. All 3 shows are doing much better than those numbers which is why most ratings talk is meaningless.


----------



## rich110991 (Aug 27, 2020)

The Wood said:


> See ya. Thanks for your condescending “observations.”


I wasn’t being condescending  But you’re welcome. Sorry that it touched a nerve.

Man, people here really hate AEW don’t they?


----------



## Brad Boyd (Jan 28, 2020)

validreasoning said:


> The classic ruthless agression era where Vince had people kiss his ass on live tv,. Eugene and Heidenreich got major pushes on biggest ppvs of the year, Goldberg wore a wig, Al Wilson was in a major storyline, Hogan and Piper feuded again 18 years after their initial hot program, barely mobile Scott Steiner and Kevin Nash mainevented. Big fucking Show beat Lesnar for title who then had a disastrous babyface run before turning back heel 9 months later
> 
> I could go on all night but that period fucking sucked.


There are tons of classic moments you're leaving out. Evolution, Kane unmasking and going bat shit insane, Chris Benoit and Eddie finally getting their shine. Brock Lesnar bullying Zack Gowen was some great monster heel shit too. Wasn't as good as Attitude was but it just pales in comparison to anything we've seen WWE do in the past 10 years.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

prosperwithdeen said:


> Cable ratings are not an indicator of the entire audience. All 3 shows are doing much better than those numbers which is why most ratings talk is meaningless.


They’re the same people that watch on cable though. They’re the same relevant slice of the audience. The actual number itself is trivial.



rich110991 said:


> I wasn’t being condescending  But you’re welcome. Sorry that it touched a nerve.
> 
> Man, people here really hate AEW don’t they?


Bye, bye. You tried.


----------



## kamaro011 (Jan 3, 2012)

rich110991 said:


> Man, people here really hate AEW don’t they?


Being a WWE-lite is the biggest offense for anyone that seeks a real alternative.


----------



## Randy Lahey (Apr 14, 2014)

AEW will bankrupt WWE bc they will end up setting the market rate for cable TV, which means WWE Raw will get far less $$$$ or be cancelled altogether. It’s already happened in at least one European market. 

It’s why Vince did whatever he could to stop AEW. Any competition means WWE can no longer name their price for content.


----------



## Aedubya (Jul 12, 2019)

What business? Not the wrestling business anyway


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Randy Lahey said:


> AEW will bankrupt WWE bc they will end up setting the market rate for cable TV, which means WWE Raw will get far less $$$$ or be cancelled altogether. It’s already happened in at least one European market.
> 
> It’s why Vince did whatever he could to stop AEW. Any competition means WWE can no longer name their price for content.


NXT succeeded in stopping that. The international markets that have switched are going backrupt or have been the WWE’s decision to monetise.

That WOULD have been how AEW would have been a major threat to WWE, but they’re so niche that no network with money is willingly taking that dip in popularity and ad revenue.

THAT is why I am so pissed off at them.


----------



## brewjo32 (Nov 24, 2015)

The NBA had bad YOY viewership in the bubble. Maybe the ABA will put them out of business.


----------



## rich110991 (Aug 27, 2020)

The Wood said:


> Bye, bye. You tried.


And I’m the condescending one?


----------



## intelligent person (Dec 23, 2020)

yes, I have it on good authority that their ACTUAL rating is 3 millions every weeks and sometimes slightly above, while pathetic wwe pulls like,what,1,5 mil lol; they just keep it a secret and can't publish it for the fear of retribution and revenge from wwe and crazy vince


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

intelligent person said:


> yes, I have it on good authority that their ACTUAL rating is 3 millions every weeks and sometimes slightly above, while pathetic wwe pulls like,what,1,5 mil lol; they just keep it a secret and can't publish it for the fear of retribution and revenge from wwe and crazy vince


----------



## intelligent person (Dec 23, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


>


what's funny about that? vince is notorius for his craziness lol, it wouldn't surprise me he threatened tony and others that if they reveal the truth he would kill them or something like that, I wouldn't put it past him


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Soooooooooo, Smackdowns rating just came back. They got 3.3 million viewers in total it seems. More then 4 times as much as AEW got.


----------



## Pentagon Senior (Nov 16, 2019)

Klitschko said:


> Soooooooooo, Smackdowns rating just came back. They got 3.3 million viewers in total it seems. More then 4 times as much as AEW got.


That is impressive!


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Pentagon Senior said:


> That is impressive!


Yea, just jumped up out of nowhere. Apparently their first hour had 4 million people watching. They had Reigns defending his title against Owens in a steel cage match, and some other stuff was really good too. Kind of goes to show you that there are millions of fans out there still willing to watch. You just need to give them something interesting.


----------



## Ger (Jul 20, 2018)

Randy Lahey said:


> AEW will bankrupt WWE bc they will end up setting the market rate for cable TV, which means WWE Raw will get far less $$$$ or be cancelled altogether. It’s already happened in at least one European market.


Living in THE "european" market, I got no clue what you are talking about. If you mean SKY losing WWE and getting some AEW PPVs instead, then you totally missed what is going here. SKY is not showing dynamite, while before they also showed RAW & SD. BIg difference! I explained that already above, so I am kinda surprised that suddenly someone says AEW is doing so good, without any argument. Also we talked about this issue in past.
So if this is just about "AEW will put WWE out of business" because a few people like to hear that, doesn`t matter it is true or not, we can abort the discussion here. But please stop acting like AEW would be a big success story in europe or TK would doing great in Fulham.  TK is working on both to progress and I hope for improvement, but if you already call that "good" what he is doing, I have to disagree!


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Klitschko said:


> Soooooooooo, Smackdowns rating just came back. They got 3.3 million viewers in total it seems. More then 4 times as much as AEW got.


You’re doing it wrong. You’ve got to compare AEW to a number it can beat from the week previous.


----------



## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

It wouldn't be farfetched to say that some WWE viewers are leaking over to AEW. I wouldn't say that AEW is putting them out of business though.


----------



## Matthew Castillo (Jun 9, 2018)

WWE is putting WWE out of business.


----------



## kamaro011 (Jan 3, 2012)

Matthew Castillo said:


> WWE is putting WWE out of business.


The only right answer.


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

kamaro011 said:


> The only right answer.


Are they really though?


----------



## kamaro011 (Jan 3, 2012)

Klitschko said:


> Are they really though?


At the moment, no. It's near impossible for WWE to put out on bussiness, to suggest AEW is the one that put them out is laughable at best.

The only feasible and reastically to happen is WWE screwing themselves over that makes steroid scandal or benoit double murder/suicide cases seems small in comparison.


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Ahhh I see your point @kamaro011.


----------



## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

Klitschko said:


> Yea, just jumped up out of nowhere. Apparently their first hour had 4 million people watching. They had Reigns defending his title against Owens in a steel cage match, and some other stuff was really good too. Kind of goes to show you that there are millions of fans out there still willing to watch. You just need to give them something interesting.


It was a fresh show, prime time Christmas Day, on a major network, following an NFL game, during a pandemic. Any wrestling company would see a surge of viewers under those circumstances. WWE has the brand recognition, but it still dropped over 1.5 million viewers by the end of the show.


----------



## Ger (Jul 20, 2018)

Matthew Castillo said:


> WWE is putting WWEF out of business.


I corrected this. 



DaSlacker said:


> It was a fresh show, prime time Christmas Day, on a major network, following an NFL game, during a pandemic. Any wrestling company would see a surge of viewers under those circumstances. WWE has the brand recognition, but it still dropped over 1.5 million viewers by the end of the show.


I am kinda surprised you are really looking for excuses a show doing good. You forgot this show was taped and spoilered and normal case that damages a show.


----------



## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

Ger said:


> I corrected this.
> 
> 
> 
> I am kinda surprised you are really looking for excuses a show doing good. You forgot this show was taped and spoilered and normal case that damages a show.


Not excuses. Being taped and spoiled doesn't impact that much - I've seen shows spoilered on purpose by WWE and still attract the same number. Simply saying there was a lot of variables at work. If it's more than 2.2 million average going forward, then I stand corrected. But it won't be.


----------



## Ger (Jul 20, 2018)

DaSlacker said:


> Not excuses. Being taped and spoiled doesn't impact that much - I've seen shows spoilered on purpose by WWE and still attract the same number.


You compare "this celebrity could be on the show" to the results being spoilered.



DaSlacker said:


> If it's more than 2.2 million average going forward, then I stand corrected. But it won't be.


So WWE needs to have double as much viewers than AEW? Why?
I repeat what I wrote pages before: AEW should focus on doing good shows and forget comparing themself to WWE. I add: The sooner they get rid of the "Anti-WWE" fans the better.


----------



## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

Ger said:


> You compare "this celebrity could be on the show" to the results being spoilered.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They gave away the Kurt Angle world title win in 2006 and Alberto Del Rio title win in 2013 before they aired. Both shows did strong ratings. 

Nothing to do with AEW, which has a mountain to climb. An impossible mountain imo. It was just people were acting like Smackdown popped a huge number because of the quality of the show, the talent etc. When it was just an anomaly.


----------



## EyeFoxUp (Apr 9, 2020)

intelligent person said:


> yes, I have it on good authority that their ACTUAL rating is 3 millions every weeks and sometimes slightly above, while pathetic wwe pulls like,what,1,5 mil lol; they just keep it a secret and can't publish it for the fear of retribution and revenge from wwe and crazy vince


----------



## Sbatenney (Jul 3, 2018)

Ger said:


> Living in THE "european" market, I got no clue what you are talking about. If you mean SKY losing WWE and getting some AEW PPVs instead, then you totally missed what is going here. SKY is not showing dynamite, while before they also showed RAW & SD. BIg difference! I explained that already above, so I am kinda surprised that suddenly someone says AEW is doing so good, without any argument. Also we talked about this issue in past.
> So if this is just about "AEW will put WWE out of business" because a few people like to hear that, doesn`t matter it is true or not, we can abort the discussion here. But please stop acting like AEW would be a big success story in europe or TK would doing great in Fulham.  TK is working on both to progress and I hope for improvement, but if you already call that "good" what he is doing, I have to disagree!


Speaking as someone who is living in the UK, AEW is on ITV4 which is free on freeview which means that more people will get where as WWE is on a pay per view channel called BT Sports(also may I point out that group of channels is heavily overpriced at 35 pounds per month for not a great deal tbh since most major sports is on Sky Sports).

Also Sky doesn't show any AEW, it's ITV and they are on their fourth channel, not promoted much at all, only shows Dynamite(no ppvs at all) and isn't even shown live like WWE. It's not a major win at all, in fact TNA were promoted better when they were on Bravo/Challenge than AEW has ever been on ITV and AEW fans should be annoyed by that not boasting about it. I have not seen one ad for AEW on the main ITV channel yet I have seen ads on other channels for WWE paid for by BT Sports.


----------



## JeSeGaN (Jun 5, 2018)

Man, this thread is funny!

But it at least shows who the real, *real* AEW superfans are.


----------



## Ger (Jul 20, 2018)

Sbatenney said:


> Speaking as someone who is living in the UK, AEW is on ITV4 which is free on freeview which means that more people will get where as WWE is on a pay per view channel called BT Sports(also may I point out that group of channels is heavily overpriced at 35 pounds per month for not a great deal tbh since most major sports is on Sky Sports).
> 
> Also Sky doesn't show any AEW, it's ITV and they are on their fourth channel, not promoted much at all, only shows Dynamite(no ppvs at all) and isn't even shown live like WWE. It's not a major win at all, in fact TNA were promoted better when they were on Bravo/Challenge than AEW has ever been on ITV and AEW fans should be annoyed by that not boasting about it. I have not seen one ad for AEW on the main ITV channel yet I have seen ads on other channels for WWE paid for by BT Sports.


It is the market with the easiest access (english) and more important: the Khans got connections via football. You got no WWE network in UK??
What you write doesn`t sound promising either. I even abused chrismas to ask family about, if they have seen ONE ad for AEW in the last 12 months. The answer was no, but people remembered ads for WWE free tv shows and for WWE network.
If you don`t wanna watch the freeTV shows, you can also watch WWE weekly shows here live on DAZN, which makes sense, cause they got UFC, NFL, NBA as well, but they also got stuff from Bundesliga, Champions League and Euroleague. For watching AEW 100% legal, well, you have to pay a lot. Beside the insane effort with SKY, you also had to buy another streaming service for the weekly-shows.

Sidenote most people won`t care:
I guess that Tony Khan stumbled into the same trap with SKY in germany, like WWE did before. SKY only runs so "well", because the DFL (handles german football division market) wants always also a service, which you can get 100% offline. Means over cable TV or satellite. Meanwhile that wall is broken, so in 2021 you got the live games from friday and sunday all on DAZN. (I could got into that more detailed, but people won`t care.  )
SKY costs like crazy(!) and booking the WWE PPVs already costed insanly much money, because WWE wanted to have their part as well. The paying effort before I am even able to book a WWE PPV: laughable! But at least you could see RAW and SD there as well. Now SKY got AEW PPVs (not Dynamite) and luckiliy it is a bit cheaper (but still costs more thatn WWE Network). But if you have to book Dynamite somehwere else, you pay more, than you did before with WWE. Also SKY got a bad reputation, because you don`t get rid of it so easily.

That are all first-world problems, but like I said: I really got not the impression so far, that AEW is taking over the european market or TK is doing so good in that, like somebody (not from europe) here tried to sell us. But hey, the second year just started.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

DaSlacker said:


> It was a fresh show, prime time Christmas Day, on a major network, following an NFL game, during a pandemic. Any wrestling company would see a surge of viewers under those circumstances. WWE has the brand recognition, but it still dropped over 1.5 million viewers by the end of the show.


Hold up, we've been told for months when AEW drops that holidays harm the ratings because not enough people want to take time away from family to watch TV
But you're now saying the opposite


----------



## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Hold up, we've been told for months when AEW drops that holidays harm the ratings because not enough people want to take time away from family to watch TV
> But you're now saying the opposite


Huge difference between network and cable. Particularly on xmas day. Don't get me wrong, every culture is different. Here in the UK, like everywhere, we meets families, and if the TV is on, then it's more likely to be on a major free to air network/channel. The broadcasters take advantage of this by showing a lot of original content. It's changed over the years, as streaming/multi channel became popular. But it's still a day with that old fashioned vibe. Particularly this pandemic year.

US is a bit different, depending a bit on the location. Original content is moved aside for Christmas marathons and live sport depending on the year. So there's that old fashioned thing of watching one of the main, free to air networks. This was also one of those years when NFL was not only playing on xmas day, but playing on the same network as WWE. The lead in would have been huge.

Every time Raw fell on the 25th its ratings nosedived. Even back when it was hot. This was the second time a wrestling show had been non paywall on the 25th in the modern era. First was on UPN in 2003, but that was a Tribute to the Troops. It could be argued FOX is much more lucrative platform.


----------



## TeamFlareZakk (Jul 15, 2020)

Yes. AEW is just getting started to doing so as WWE is going downhill in its new era officially named the Downfall Era.. WWE is just old, and perhaps for the greater good of the future of pro wrestling it would be for the best for WWE to go down.


----------



## intelligent person (Dec 23, 2020)

EyeFoxUp said:


> View attachment 95264


I'm serious bruh..can't reveal my sources tho,but it's legit fo sho


----------

