# The 2012 MOTYC thread



## Platt

First show of the year is tonight so here we go again.

2011 MOTYC Thread
2010 MOTYC Thread


----------



## seancarleton77

Sekimoto Daisuke & Ishikawa Shuji vs. Mashimo Kengo & Sekine Ryuichi ****1/4


----------



## Bubz

Lets hope 2012 is as good for wrestling as it looks like it's going to be for movies . World's ending and all, the wrestling world better give us a good year.


----------



## seabs

*Bad Intentions vs Satoshi Kojima & Hiroyoshi Tenzan - IWGP Heavyweight Tag Team Championships - NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI*
_****_

*Shinsuke Nakamura & Toru Yano vs Go Shiozaki & Naomichi Marufuji - NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI*
_****1/4_

*Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI*
_****1/4+_

*Spoke about all 3 a little in the puro thread, was going to go into more detail in here but I'm tired so can't be bothered.*


----------



## Cactus

I figured this could be a cool project. I'm going to add any matches I'll rate 4 stars or higher on this post, to make it easier for myself and I hope this list can be useful for you guys looking for good matches from this year.

*Cactus's MOTYC for 2012*

*★★★★★*

*★★★★ ¾*
John Cena vs Brock Lesnar (WWE Extreme Rules; 2012/04/29)

*★★★★ ½*
Dave 'Fit' Finlay vs Sami Callihan (EVOLVE 11; 2012/04/13)


*★★★★ ¼*
Kazuchika Okada vs Hiroshi Tanahashi (NJPW; 2012/06/16)
Daisuke Sekimoto vs Suwama (AJPW; 2012/01/02)
Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito (NJPW; 2012/03/04)
Prince Devitt vs Low Ki (NJPW; 2012/05/03)
CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan (WWE Over The Limit; 2012/05/20)
Super Smash Brothers vs The Young Bucks vs Futureshock (PWG Threemedous; 2012/07/21)
CM Punk vs Chris Jericho (WWE WrestleMania XXVIII; 2012/04/01)
Atsushi Aoki & Kotaro Suzuki vs Atsushi Kotoge & Daisuke Harada (NOAH; 2012/22/01)
CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan (WWE Raw; 2012/01/30)
El Generico vs Ricochet (PWG Death To All But Metal; 2012/05/25)
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki (NJPW; 2012/10/08)  

*★★★★*
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada (NJPW; 2012/02/12)
Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yuji Okabayashi (BJW; 2012/02/26)
El Generico vs Low Ki (EVOLVE 11; 2012/04/13)
CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan (WWE Money in the Bank; 2012/07/15)
Tatsumi Fujinami & Mitsuya Nagai vs Yoshiaki Fujiwara & Yuki Ishikawa (Legend Pro; 2012/01/08)
Sami Callihan vs Yoshihito Sasaki (BJW; 2012/03/26)
Yuji Nagata, Wataru Inoue & KUSHIDA vs Masakatsu Funaki, Minoru Tanaka & Masayuki Kono (NJPW; 2012/07/01) 
Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs Akebono & Ryota Hama (BJW; 2012/01/02)
Masato Tanaka & Ikuto Hidaka vs Naomichi Marufuji & Taiji Ishimori (Zero-1; 2012/5/16)
The Young Bucks vs The RockNES Monsters vs Super Smash Brothers (PWG World's Finest; 2012/03/17)
Low Ki vs Prince Devitt (NJPW; 2012/11/11)
CM Punk vs John Cena (WWE Night of Champions; 2012/09/16)
Kenny Omega vs Shuji Kondo (AJPW; 2012/03/20)
Austin Aries vs Alex Shelley (TNA Against All Odds; 2012/02/12)
Jun Akiyama vs Keiji Muto (AJPW; 2012/03/20)
Hiroshi Tanahashi, Hirooki Goto, Tetsuya Naito & Tama Tonga vs Kazuchika Okada, Shinsuke Nakamura, YOSHI-HASHI & Tomohiro Ishii (NJPW; 2012/05/27)
Kazuchika Okada vs Karl Anderson (NJPW; 2012/10/08)

*Write-ups*


Spoiler



*Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs Akebono & Ryota Hama
BJW; 2012/01/02
*
_For a team of disgustingly fat fuckers, Hama & 'bono are pretty swell in the ring. One day removed from his great ZERO-1 match, Sekimoto is once again putting being the man. He's really growing on me. Hama & Akebono are the big bullies of the match, mostly dominating Sasaki until he gets the hot tag to everyone's favorite roided up midget. Can Sekimoto overcome the big behemoths of Akebono & Ryota Hama? Go see the match and find out._
_*
Rating: *****_

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Daisuke Sekimoto vs Suwama
AJPW; 2012/01/02
*_
Only two days into the new year and Sekimoto already has three matches that could be considered MOTYC material. What a worker. This was a rare powerhouse match that I really got into, something that doesn't happened that often. Suwama, aware of Sekimoto's freaky strength, takes out his back and leaves him helpless. Locking in a crab, whipping him in to the barricade, just making him his bitch basically. This is all fuel to Sekimoto's comeback. He sells the back well and leaves you on the edge of your seat whenever he attempts a big power move._

_*Rating: ****¼*_

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Tatsumi Fujinami & Mitsuya Nagai vs Yoshiaki Fujiwara & Yuki Ishikawa
Legend Pro; 2012/01/08*
_
The first five minutes of this great ten minute match is mostly matwork that really isn't pretty. There isn't any flawless transitions and nobody makes any progress but I do think this helped the match The mat-wrestling was mostly a struggle that nobody benefited from and now they all pissed off and just want to kick and punch the crap out of each other now. Fujiwara was really the star of the show. Even in his sixties, he can still pull out a great performance like this. He was the grizzled vet that added to tension to the opening parts of the match after bitch-slapping his opponents._

_*Rating: *****_

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Atsushi Aoki & Kotaro Suzuki vs Atsushi Kotoge & Daisuke Harada
NOAH; 2012/22/01*
_
I went into this match thinking the outsiders stood no chance and they did a great job of trying to convince me otherwise. With pointless, yet entertaining matwork, stiff strikes and plenty of high spots and near-falls, this match may sound like a typical Kurt Angle spotfest, but it really wasn't. The near-falls were very emotion-filled and the match could of went either way. A bloody good showing from all four parties.
_
_*Rating: ****¼*_

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

*CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan
WWE Raw; 2012/01/31*

_I really did appreciate the little things in the match like Bryan wrenching Punk's arm like he's William Regal and Punk having to switch arms before the bulldog. It also sounded like the crowd did too, giving an audible reaction whenever Bryan contorted Punk's arm. There was a continuity issue though; Bryan switched which arm he working on during the break, but it's no biggie. Still The best WWE TV match in years._

_*Rating: ****¼*_

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada 
NJPW; 2012/02/12
*_
I liked how Tana was seen as the vet in the match, dominating Okada with headlocks and Okada only gaining control after taking advantage of Tana's mistakes. Epic match that had my heart-racing on some of the near-falls. I do wish the selling had more continuity._

_*Rating: *****_

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Austin Aries vs Alex Shelley 
TNA Against All Odds; 2012/02/12*

_Just barely a four star match, this was pretty good. Shelley's babyface role in this match felt forced and didn't really work for him until the finishing stretch. Aries was gold as usual. Aries working on Shelley's injured neck really put Shelley over as a good guy, as did Shelley's selling of the sick apron Death Valley Drop. The ending stretch was simply fantastic and it really had me rooting for Shelley and I'm a huge Austin Aries fan. It was back-and-forth and filled with spots, but they all had a strong meaning behind them. _

_*Rating: *****_

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yuji Okabayashi
BJW; 2012/02/26*

_What I love about these two workers is that they wrestle a 'powerhouse' style match using basic moves yet they still keep me entertained and can get a MOTYC out of it. That sums this match up nicely. It's partner versus partner and there's a lot of cool spots showing the team's curiosity on who's stronger._

*Rating: *****

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito
NJPW; 2012/03/04*

_We all know I'm a mark for great limbwork and it's going to be no surprise that I loved this match. Okada weakened Naito's neck to set up for his Rainmaker and Naito went all Mutoh-style and took out Okada's leg via basement dropkicks. Plus, 99% of the moves here are all aimed at those body parts. Add on top of that those nuclear near-falls we always get in IWGP title matches and you're looking at an epic match._

_*Rating: ****¼*_

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

*The Young Bucks vs Super Smash Brothers vs The RockNES Monsters
PWG Worlds's Finest; 2012/03/17*

_Everything an indy spotfest should be. Nothing more really needs to be said._

*Rating: *****

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Kenny Omega vs Shuji Kondo
AJPW; 2012/03/20*

_It's my first time seeing Omega and I'm a fan already. His heel work is amazing and he just comes off as a right arse to the crowd. Not to mention his epic moveset. There's nothing too in-depth I can really say why I loved this match other than it was just a great face versus heel back-and-forth match filled with plenty of sick moves._

_*Rating: *****_

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin
ROH Showdown in the Sun Night 2; 2012/03/31*

_It has it's flaws and I think Meltzer giving it the full five stars is fucking insane, but considering this match has two guys that I don't care about at all and I ended up loving near enough every second of the match, that's got to be enough to get a nomination. They tried to play up Elgin's size and strength against the smaller size of Richards. There was sick moment whether or not Davey could hit a top rope suplex because of the sheer size of Elgin, this would of been a really cool moment if you know... DAVEY DIDN'T FUCKING RELEASE GERMAN ELGIN WITH EASE FIVE MINUTES EARLIER! Ergh. Aside from that and your typical ROH main event finishing stretch no-selling and near-falls overkill, that's all the bad stuff I can say about this match. The match was filled with emotion, mostly thanks to commentator Nigel McGuinness really getting into the match and rooting for Elgin which really set the mood for plenty of high-stake spots and awesome (and some bad) near-falls._

*Rating: ****1/4*

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

*CM Punk vs Chris Jericho
WWE WrestleMania 28; 2012/04/01*

Going into this match, I wasn't too sure what to expect. Both are great wrestlers, but I recall feeling greatly let-down by Jericho's match with Edge at WrestleMania two years ago, so I had a feeling this wouldn't deliver. Thankfully, the match not only exceeded my expectations but I would consider it a strong match of the year candidate. It was the little things that made this match so great. Jericho trying to make Punk freak out, get disqualified and lose his title was a great underlying storyline and even simpler things such as Punk bridging while locking on the Anaconda Vice to stop Jericho from kneeing him made this match a technical classic. 

_*Rating: ****¼*_

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Low-Ki vs El Generico
EVOLVE 11: Callihan vs Finlay; 2012/04/13*

_This was bloody fantastic. Low Ki's strong style background visually intimidated Generico. He flinched after Low-Ki attempted a strike and when Generico tried to return the favor, Low-Ki just stared at him like a motherfucker who then proceeds to beat the living crap out of Generico. Generico needs to find something to combat Low Ki's offense and he eventually does with his speed. This told a great story and ended at the right time, something a lot of EVOLVE matches struggle to do._

_*Rating: *****_

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Dave 'Fit' Finlay vs Sami Callihan
EVOLVE 11: Callihan vs Finlay; 2012/04/13*

_Limbwork, stiff strikes and MANLINESS~! Both men bleed the hardway by headbutting each other. In a similar vein to their last match at EVOLVE, Finlay dishes out most of the beating. At the time, the spot where both men knock each other down with dueling kicks not once, not twice, but THREE times did annoy me, but when I look back on it now on how it made the closing minutes even more epic. The final counter was also fucking epic, but I'm not going to spoil that for you. As of now, this is my MOTY._

*Rating: ****½*


----------



## Bubz

^^^ That's new lol. Great idea though, people will know where to look for a list then (Y).


----------



## seancarleton77

TenKoji vs. Bad Intentions ****
Suzuki vs. Tanahashi ***3/4


----------



## Bubz

*IWGP Heavyweight Title - Tanahashi vs Suzuki*
The fact that this wasn't the same as every Tana match in his reign immediately made it better for me. MiSu dominated nearly the whole match apart from a few hope spots and the comeback at the end and it was awesome. Tana didn't get any pointless leg work in like he usually does and when he did try it failed misserably because MiSu was just a badass cutting him off. I also loved Suzuki winning in every strike exchange until the last one where Tana won and it led to his comeback. This is the first time in so long that the finish in a Tana match didn't annoy me much. I loved MiSu using the enormous ramp to try and gain a countout and I also loved how he played a complete dick all the way through and taunting Tana and the crowd which always led to Tana getting some offense in. The first great match of the year then for me. *****1/4*

The show overall was really good imo. Both tag title matches were easy **** matches for me and there was a few ***1/2 matches too in Sugi/Goto and the Nakamura/Yano vs Go/marufuji tag.


----------



## ddog121

Wrestlekingdom VI:
Apolo 55 v. NRC ****
Marufuji and Shiozaki v. Yano and Nakamura **** (MOTN)

This was a damn good show.


----------



## seabs

*Kohei Sato vs Daisuke Sekimoto - ZERO-1 World Heavyweight Championship - ZERO-1 01.01.2012*
_Hoped more than I expected for this to be great and it ended up being better than I ever thought it had a chance of being. Sekimoto's phenomenal in it and strangely he always seems to put in his best solo performances when he's working from behind which he is from the chairs spot on the floor onwards. His selling was top notch with all the little things he did like his blank faces after taking a big bump and clenching his fingers. Really liked as well how he did his in part in making Sato look like a super champ by not giving any power moves away in the first half of the match without building to them. Could have done with 5 minutes chopping off in the 2nd third but you know._

******


----------



## Bubz

I'd just like to say that Bryan vs Show from SD was seriously entertaining to watch. Bryan running away from Show was great and I legit thought Show was going to tap out. Also made me wonder if they are going to turn Bryan heel after he got the cheap victory and acting like a douche about it lol.


----------



## Cactus

Seabs said:


> *Kohei Sato vs Daisuke Sekimoto - ZERO-1 World Heavyweight Championship - ZERO-1 01.01.2012*
> _Hoped more than I expected for this to be great and it ended up being better than I ever thought it had a chance of being. Sekimoto's phenomenal in it and strangely he always seems to put in his best solo performances when he's working from behind which he is from the chairs spot on the floor onwards. His selling was top notch with all the little things he did like his blank faces after taking a big bump and clenching his fingers. Really liked as well how he did his in part in making Sato look like a super champ by not giving any power moves away in the first half of the match without building to them. Could have done with 5 minutes chopping off in the 2nd third but you know._
> 
> ******


Thanks for the heads up. I have this show, but not sure if I can be arsed to sit through all 2 hours of it, not being familiar with Zero-One and all. Anything else worth seeing from it?



Bubz said:


> I'd just like to say that Bryan vs Show from SD was seriously entertaining to watch. Bryan running away from Show was great and I legit thought Show was going to tap out. Also made me wonder if they are going to turn Bryan heel after he got the cheap victory and acting like a douche about it lol.


I second this. It's not a MOTYC or anything, but I loved the psychology in it. I know it's a cliche but it really was a modern day retelling of David vs. Goliath. I'd love to see what these two could come up with at the Royal Rumble. Henry was great on commentary too. He wasn't a one dimensional heel and actually put both guys over and he didn't side with Michael Cole like most heels do. ****1/4*


----------



## antoniomare007

Daisuke/Sato was too long, Sato brings nothing to the table aside from his stiff as hell kicks. Korakuen being so quiet didn't help either. Sekimoto carried Kohei and made things interesting but not enough for a MOTYC mention imo. The Fire Festival Final was shorter and had a better crowd (although Daisuke didn't looked as good as he did here).

kinda off topic but I was pissed with Daichi's match. I guess I should have seen it coming but after all the fantasy booking I couldn't help but feel disappointed.


----------



## Cactus

*Kohei Sato vs Daisuke Sekimoto*
*ZERO-1; 2012/01/01*

The beginning and end of the match were great, but it was the middle that really held it down. The match started out very power-based with plenty of headlocks, shoulder tackles and chest slaps. MANLY~! It was all going great until about eight minutes in when Sato took control of the match. Sato doesn't seem to have any idea to make his control segments interesting and they went on much longer than they needed to be. The finish had plenty of impressive deadlift moves that we have come to expect out of Sekimoto. Trim off 5 minutes out of the middle and this would of been MOTYC-worthy.

*Rating: ***¾*


----------



## Bubz

Cactus said:


> I second this. It's not a MOTYC or anything, but I loved the psychology in it. I know it's a cliche but it really was a modern day retelling of David vs. Goliath. I'd love to see what these two could come up with at the Royal Rumble. Henry was great on commentary too. He wasn't a one dimensional heel and actually put both guys over and he didn't side with Michael Cole like most heels do. ****1/4*


Yeah I'm sure Bryan/Show could have a great match at a ppv, they seemed to have great chemistry. I still want to see a proper Bryan/Henry match because those two could work great together imo. I'm just hoping Bryan has a great year and shows what he's really made of to the WWE audience. He started getting booed because of his slightly heelish antics against Show and I'd love to see him go heel and defend the belt at Mania.


----------



## Cactus

Bubz said:


> Yeah I'm sure Bryan/Show could have a great match at a ppv, they seemed to have great chemistry. I still want to see a proper Bryan/Henry match because those two could work great together imo. I'm just hoping Bryan has a great year and shows what he's really made of to the WWE audience. He started getting booed because of his slightly heelish antics against Show and I'd love to see him go heel and defend the belt at Mania.


Bryan has been with WWE for nearly two years now and he really hasn't had many chances to show that he's one of the best wrestlers in the world. Give a few PPV main events with 20 minutes, Bryan could get ridiculously over based solely on his ring skills alone. Hey, it's happened before with Benoit and Bret.


----------



## seabs

Cactus said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I have this show, but not sure if I can be arsed to sit through all 2 hours of it, not being familiar with Zero-One and all. Anything else worth seeing from it?


*Not really from that show. Z1's a really consistent promotion for enjoyable matches.*


antoniomare007 said:


> kinda off topic but I was pissed with Daichi's match. I guess I should have seen it coming but after all the fantasy booking I couldn't help but feel disappointed.


*Yeah it wasn't good. Crowd could have helped more but I think both guys need to be working with guys like Otani more and less with each other. *


----------



## Zatiel

Hiroshi Tanahashi (c) Vs. Minoru Suzuki
The best defense since Nagata in April. Suzuki dominating, and dominating with offense that slowed Tanahashi down, worked great. Suzuki was also an excellent prick character with stuff like lounging in the ring during a potential count-out. It managed to make Tanahashi feel threatened and potentially out-classed in a way I haven't felt since he wrestled Giant Bernard. That made his comebacks and eventual victory much more emotional, which at this point in his streak was vital. Not just the best match of the year so far, but the best match in months. Would have stuck this high on my 2011 list. Sleepers matter!

The Big Show Vs. Daniel Bryan (c)
I really enjoyed Show Vs. Bryan. I agree with the consensus so far that it won't be MOTY or anything, but was a total pleasure to watch. It had a good story, Show gave Bryan some offense and went more even with him than I expected. The ending was good for this stage of Bryan's turn, and the way Bryan sold it as willful worked.


----------



## Noah Mark

I'll throw this in:

Black Terry/El Hijo Del Pirata Morgan/Skayde vs ***** Navarro/Trauma I/Trauma II-1/1 Todo X Todo Lucha Show...****. 
Match was very good. Navarro & Skayde had some really good exchanges when they were in together and Skayde was able to hang.


----------



## Rah

*IWGP Tag Team Title Match
Bad Intentions (Giant Bernard & Karl Anderson) © vs Tenkoji (Hiroyoshi Tenzan & Satoshi Kojima)​*Whether this is the feeling of someone in the know or a genuine issue, I have to admit that a lot of wrestling matches don't feel as if the match is a proper fight but rather a flashy affair with the intetion of winning sprinkled between the big moves. This, however, felt dirty and it felt like a real fight. Bad Intentions truly beat the crap out of Tenzan at the match's start with repeated elbows and knee-drops (after Kojima was knocked off the apron) and it gave the crowd an awakening thanks to Tenzan's counter of Anderson's brainbuster due to his growing ego and confidence in thinking Tenzan was down for the count. This definitely got the crowd heavily behind Tenkoji, with a loud pop when Kojima went for the Bakayaro Elbow.

I honestly thought Bad Intentions would retain after a Gun Stun, Magic Killer AND a very impressive aided-powerbomb by Bernard. Tenzan's kick-out gave a lot of kayfabe sense to Bad Intentions dropping the belts (adding to booking sense of this being the perfect time and opponents to drop it to), though, and Bernard definitely didn't look bad in defeat, either, having succumbed only to both of Tenkoji's individual finishers. This had A LOT of things that went right for it but, sadly, it did have it's weak points, too.

Bernard's selling of Kojima's DDT was, without question, below par but otherwise he held his own (and despite him not being the greatest thing in the ring, a match such as this makes his badass nature a gem). The worst moves of the match and a major issue for me were, however, were Kojima's chops. Sure, they had the crowd behind them but I have a massive disdain for weakly attempted chops. Unlike quite a few people I don't have an issue, as such, with the move but rather the tendency for a wrestler to deliver a superfluous amount of them to the point that they look weak and extremely ineffective. Perhaps I'm being overly critical of them, but it's a definite means of lowering my enjoyment within the match and hurts its rating. Faults aside, I also have to bring up the issue of Anderson's Gun Stun (and this is perhaps my newbie experience of Anderson showing, here) but his mannerism during the cutter and setting up of the Gun Stun on Tenzan reminded me A LOT of Randy Orton's RKO - especially the ground pounding. Whether done in homage or not (and this doesn't seem it is) I'm not a particular fan of wrestlers using another's "set ups" or mannerisms.

All this aside, and in summation, this match was damn good and definitely better than my expectation of it. It's not going to win any awards for greatest match of the year, but it does everything it needed to, and does it well, I must add. Great match.

*Rating: 4.25-* (the chops make me want to drag this down to a 4 but I'll make somewhat of an exception and settle with this)

Still have Tanahashi/Suzuki, Apollo 55/NRC and Yano/Marufuji to watch through. By the looks of things I'll have another three early MotYCs. Not bad for one show.



Noah Mark said:


> I'll throw this in:
> 
> Black Terry/El Hijo Del Pirata Morgan/Skayde vs ***** Navarro/Trauma I/Trauma II-1/1 Todo X Todo Lucha Show...****.
> Match was very good. Navarro & Skayde had some really good exchanges when they were in together and Skayde was able to hang.


You can never go wrong with Black Terry. I'll give that a watch after I'm done with Wrestlekingdom. I've read, though, that the second and third falls are a bit rushed not to mention El Hijo Del Pirata is probably a bit out of his league but you and Segunda Caida only sing its praises so I shall give it a go. Not the greatest Maestro Lucha fan but I'll make do. If a match is good enough, though, it can make a fan of just about anyone.


----------



## ddog121

Show v. Bryan was a super fun TV match. Bryan v. Show v. Henry at the Rumble could end up being a very good match.


----------



## Rah

ddog121 said:


> Show v. Bryan was a super fun TV match. Bryan v. Show v. Henry at the Rumble could end up being a very good match.


Show/Henry is possibly my most favourite big man match of all time from an entertainment perspective. If you had told the IWC this match may be their favourite of the PPV before Henry finally became champ, I don't think there would be very many who would take you seriously ever again.

As for Apollo 55/NRC, I can definitely scratch that off as not being a possible MotYC. Ugh...


----------



## seabs

*Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs Akebono & Ryuto Hama - BJW 02.01.2012.avi*
_Tons of fun. Akebono and Hama worked really fucking well together as a destructive force, much better than they are in All Japan. Akebono's a super worker and he was great at playing an outsider heel whipping up heat for him and Hama. He's super athletic for a guy of his frame too. Yet another great Big Japan match that goes under 12 minutes too._

******

*The Brahmans 6 man was super fun too (but not as great as the above tag). Ridiculously crazy fun hardcore stuff and I see 2012 being a big breakout year for Kazuki Hashimoto.*


----------



## antoniomare007

poor, poor Yoshihito 



Seabs said:


> *I see 2012 being a big breakout year for Kazuki Hashimoto.*


It won't be easy though, they have to pair him up with someone so he can have high profile tag matches (and not just fun Strong BJ multi-man tags).

Ever since his September 2010 breakout performance he has showed tremendous potential.


----------



## seabs

*All Japan have give him dates on the undercard before so if he gets a big tag there that could be a catalyst for him. I kinda meant more just emerging as one of the top Strong BJ guys with Yoshihito, Daisuke and Yuji. I love the All Japan invasion matches with Daisuke and Yuji in BJW but I'd kill for a really big Strong BJ tag involving Daisuke, Yuji and Yoshihito again. Don't think there's been one since THAT Shinobu 6 man which was like 6 months ago. Sasaki was a real fresh addition to the Big Japan vs All Japan matches too. Need more of him being grumpy and nasty to Akekbono and Hama.*


----------



## sharkboy22

Where the heck do you guys get all this access to Puro stuff?. That shit's rare to find for me. Is it in the multimedia section?

Anyway Ziggler vs Show was an entertaining match and there were not 1 but 2 legit moments where I thought Show was gonna tap. Both men made that match so believable to watch. It's not MOTY, but nonetheless it was very exciting which is what wrestling is all about.


----------



## antoniomare007

Dj.IcE uploads or posts the RUDOS links in puromedia. There's also worldwrestlingtorrents (although they are normally a couple of days late)

And of course Seabs posts the single match links 1 or 2 days after the RUDOS links surface.


----------



## Bubz

You can also find the majority of puro stuff on youtube. SenorPuroresu uploads loads of shows and various other people upload stuff as well. But yeah if you can't find it on youtube it's definitely going to be in the media section somewhere really soon after it happens.


----------



## seancarleton77

SenorDDT now.


----------



## seancarleton77

FLUORESCENT LIGHT-TUBES DEATH MATCH: Abdullah Kobayashi, Shadow WX & Takeda Masashi vs. Kasai Jun, Numazawa Jaki & Hoshino Kankuro (BJW 2012/01/02) ****+


----------



## Chismo

Fucking YT suspended few great puro accounts: SenorLARIATO, SenorPuroresu, Bootaaay, H781N. Apparently not only NOAH is problematic to find, but also NJPW, AJPW, Z1, etc.


----------



## Rah

KingsRoadJapan, StrongStyleJapan, BiggestJapan (which has spawned from the removal of NOAH) and PuroClassics are still up. As for NOAH ProWrestlingFARK is taking over where ARK left off.

I'm still okay with this.


----------



## TelkEvolon

I have no idea why they just don't block the videos from being seen in Japan. That's fair enough.

As I said elsewhere I'm alright with NOAH being switched with BJW at the moment until it calms down.


----------



## smitlick

I dont understand why these companies don't make these things easier for International Fans to obtain. I'd pay $10 a month to catch all the Infinities streamed like the ROH site does.


----------



## ywall2breakerj

JoeRulz said:


> Fucking YT suspended few great puro accounts: SenorLARIATO, SenorPuroresu, Bootaaay, H781N. Apparently not only NOAH is problematic to find, but also NJPW, AJPW, Z1, etc.


They just suspended ProWrestlingArk :cussin:


----------



## TelkEvolon

ywall2breakerj said:


> They just suspended ProWrestlingArk :cussin:


Booooooooooo!


----------



## Cactus

Sucks that all those accounts got taken down. They really helped me get into puro. SenorDDT is where it's at now. Anyways...

*Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs Akebono & Ryota Hama
BJW; 2012/01/02*

For a team of disgustingly fat fuckers, Hama & 'bono are pretty swell in the ring. One day removed from his great ZERO-1 match, Sekimoto is once again putting being the man. He's really growing on me. Hama & Akebono are the big bullies of the match, mostly dominating Sasaki until he gets the hot tag to everyone's favorite roided up midget. Can Sekimoto overcome the big behemoths of Akebono & Ryota Hama? Go see the match and find out.

*Rating: *****


----------



## starship.paint

man I was sure pissed when DailyMotion went after a Dragon Gate uploader... ><

that said I better go scour YouTube right now for the few DG videos out there...

and yes, I do know where to find other DG videos, no need to openly mention the link =P


----------



## Cactus

starship.paint said:


> man I was sure pissed when DailyMotion went after a Dragon Gate uploader... ><
> 
> that said I better go scour YouTube right now for the few DG videos out there...
> 
> and yes, I do know where to find other DG videos, no need to openly mention the link =P


The link? THE link? ....what link?


----------



## antoniomare007

this is getting similar to the discussions about _THAT SITE~!_ :side:


----------



## Bubz

*Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs Akebono & Ryota Hama - BJW 02/01*
Really great match and so much fun. I'm going to try and watch all the BJW/AJPW tags that get mentioned in here this year, because last year I only watched a couple of Sekimoto/Okabayoshi tags. And from what I hear and what I've seen here I've been missing out and I know this is probably far from the best I'm going to see. I loved Akebono and Hama as a team, seriously unstoppable monsters. Man, Sasaki must have been unable to breathe for the majority of this. Sekimoto coming in off the hot tag was awesome and I really liked the end with Hama/Akebono just taking apart sasaki and not letting Daisuke get in the ring because the only way they aren't getting the pin is if it gets broken up. *****1/4*

Also, WHAT IS THE LINK? PLEASE TELL ME!


----------



## smitlick

I assume we are talking about Open The Dragon Gate?


----------



## seabs

*If you know what you're looking for then download links are the best option for puro stuff. Don't think I've ever had a puro link bar some Dragon Gate stuff get taken down. That may sound like a cheap shill for my downloads but it's not (much at least).

Great to see more people already watching strong BJ tags.

Bubz just go back and watch some of their tags from last year now rather than waiting for new ones.*


----------



## Bubz

Yeah I will do as soon as I get some free time in a few weeks. Going to try and keep up with this thread as best I can this year though as well. I'm gonna' try and watch a lot more stuff this year on the whole. Didn't see as much as I would have liked last year.


----------



## Scavo

ywall2breakerj said:


> They just suspended ProWrestlingArk :cussin:












Those people are giant frickin douchebags.


----------



## Pat9010

This youtube shit is pissing me off. That's how i keep up with Puro...i guess i'll have to start downloading and filling up my external hard drive


----------



## Noah Mark

El Hijo Del Santo vs Angel Blanco Jr-1/1/2012 Todo X Todo...Another very good technical match. Santo's headscissors are a thing of beauty.***3/4.


----------



## Cactus

*Abdullah Kobayashi, Shadow WX & Masashi Takeda vs Jun Kasai, Jaki Numazawa & Kankuro Hoshino
BJW; 2012/01/02*

I'm not usually a deathmatch guy, but I gave this a chance and I have to say I thought it was a great match. The wrestlers weren't taking it too seriously and tried to get a few reactions out of the crowd, especially Kasai, who comes off as a great showman. The timing was also good, bar a few times at the ending. Way too much stalling and a touch of overkill, which didn't take too much away from my overall enjoyment of the match though. 

_*Rating: *****_


----------



## antoniomare007

It took a couple of years, but I'm glad Big Japan is being watched by more people.


----------



## seancarleton77

Who cares about DG and their 500 identical matches, Big Japan is killing it on nearly every show, let's keep talking about them.


----------



## TelkEvolon

seancarleton77 said:


> Who cares about DG and their 500 identical matches, Big Japan is killing it on nearly every show, let's keep talking about them.


Agreed.

These days I can hardly be bothered to watch wrestling I'll get part way through an event and stop or take a whole day to watch a match.

But when it comes to BJW I'm glued to the screen. It's one of the easiest companies to watch and the mix of good wrestling and great deathmatch is almost perfect.

Not to mention Sekimoto & Okabayshi tearing it up.



Also..... Brahmans!


----------



## Pat9010

Big Japan has really been good, i used to write it off as just garbage wrestling, but lately it's had me watching every show uploaded to youtube


----------



## seancarleton77

Brahman's are mega bad asses. Let's hope the BJW/All Japan feud continues throughout 2012.


----------



## djmathers1207

Abyss vs. Bully Ray ****
4-way X-Division Title match- ***1/4
Robert Roode vs Jeff Hardy- ***1/2-***1/4 [if not for the ridiculous ending]
Mickie James vs. Gail Kim- ***1/2-***1/4


----------



## FITZ

_Zero-1 Championship 1/1/12 _
*Kohei Sato(c) vs. Daisuke Sekimoto
*
This was awesome. Sekimoto gets his ass handed to him early on by taking a brutal bump onto a pile of chairs. This control segment by Sato was so great because it just looked so painful, his strikes were stiff and threw out some nice power moves. There was this odd segment where Sekimoto got in some offense but he kept it slow which I wasn't expecting. Later on we got that awesome comeback that I was expecting from him. Good finishing stretch too with a few nice nearfalls and more brutal strikes. 

Sekimoto was awesome here. He came across as a total badass that took all sorts of punishment before he went down for the count. And because Sato managed to survive with his title he ended up looking great. I'm hoping they have a rematch down the road very soon. First Zero-1 match that I've ever seen and I have to say that it was really really good. 
******​

So I'm trying to make an informed decision on what gets my MOTY this year and I'll try to do a write up for anything that I give over 4*s. Wrestle Kingdom had a few that I gave ***3/4 but that was the highest so I didn't include any of them in here.


----------



## Scavo

*TNA Genesis 2012:*

4 Way X Division Title: ****1/2*

Monster's Ball: ****3/4*


----------



## Rah

Hiroshi Tanahashi Vs Minoru Suzuki (Wrestlekingdom) - 4.25+
(review is in Puro thread)


----------



## 777

Finally finished watchin Wrestle Kingdom. Good stuff, about what I expect from a Tokyo Dome show.

So as it stands, my top matches of 2012 are:

Shinsuke & Yano vs Go & Fuji - This match was the best WK bout and really fun to watch despite a lack of Shiozaki lariats. 

Brodus Clay vs Curt Hawkins - The most entertaining segment in pro wrestling so far this year.

Neither should be considered a match of the year by any stretch, just my picks at less than two weeks into the new year.


----------



## seabs

*Suwama vs Daisuke Sekimoto - AJPW 02.01.2012*
_Fuck this was really good. Really glad that the crowd got behind Daisuke as they did and got behind everything they were doing. It's no coincidence that the crowd was hot for it though because of the excellent way in which they worked the match. Wonderful face/heel dynamic and whenever you have one guy beating another guy who's selling for an extended amount of time the crowd are always gonna get into eventually, especially when that segment is 100% one sided and the babyface gets no offence in unlike in Indy matches when they can't go 5 minutes without having a comeback. This is basically what you get when you take the Sato match from the day before and swap him with a much better worker in Suwama. Suwama's really turning into one of the best heavyweight workers going now and it's no coincidence at all that he keeps popping up in great matches. I love high profile matches where you can keep the established hierachy in place put still put over the lower card._

*****1/4*


----------



## Bubz

Have to see that match. Anything else from the show worth watching?


----------



## Cactus

*Daisuke Sekimoto vs Suwama
AJPW; 2012/01/02*

Only two days into the new year and Sekimoto already has three matches that could be considered MOTYC material. What a worker. This was a rare powerhouse match that I really got into, something that doesn't happened that often. Suwama, aware of Sekimoto's freaky strength, takes out his back and leaves him helpless. Locking in a crab, whipping him in to the barricade, just making him his bitch basically. This is all fuel to Sekimoto's comeback. He sells the back well and leaves you on the edge of your seat whenever he attempts a big power move. 

_*Rating: ****¼*_


----------



## antoniomare007

*Daisuke Sekimoto vs Suwama - AJPW B-Banquet 304*

Thanks Seabs DA GAWD for upping this in file small enough for me to download it . So yeah, this was great and oddly enough met my high expectations. Seabs and Cactus already summed it up perfectly, all I gotta say is that if you like heavyweight battles you shouldn't skip this. I want a rematch!


----------



## Bubz

*Sekimoto vs Suwama - AJPW 02/01*
Wow I loved the hell out of this, incredible heavyweight match! Great workover by Suwama and selling by Sekimoto with some awesome comebacks and finishing stretch and a hot crowd to boot. Holy shit at the dead lift german to Suwama. Sekimoto is probably my favorite guy to watch in Japan right now. This was only the second Suwama singles match I've seen along with the Akiyama match, and I've seen him get some shit from some people but he's been so impressive with what I've seen of him. Awesome match.
*****1/2*

I just realised, did Sekimoto work the BJ and AJ shows on the same day and produce two MOTYC's? Man is too good.


----------



## antoniomare007

Bubz said:


> I just realised, did Sekimoto work the BJ and AJ shows on the same day and produce two MOTYC's?


yes he did.


----------



## FITZ

Going to get around to that All Japan match in the morning, sounds awesome. 

Making a change to what a post in here. I just realized that it would be a huge waste of my time to go and write reviews for matches and then not post them if I don't rate them 4*s. So I basically plan on doing everything from Sebs' thread and if I come across anything that numerous people review I'll go ahead and do that as well. 



_FLUORESCENT LIGHT-TUBES DEATH MATCH:_
* Abdullah Kobayashi, Shadow WX & Takeda Masashi vs. Kasai Jun, Numazawa Jaki & Hoshino Kankuro (BJW 2012/01/02) *

Well Jun Jasai wearing a fans winter jacket, getting thrown into lightbulbs, they don't effect him, Kasai celebrates, and throws the jacket back to a fan might have been the coolest thing ever. Oh and some of the most sickening headbutts ever from Numazawa (I think) added the brutality and awesomeness. The match was insane but it was really just them beating each other with light tubes. Being in the building love for something like this would be awesome but after seeing a few of those spots on TV they kind of lose the effect. Really bloody and everything but that's really the main appeal. I still enjoyed it but I've seen better examples of telling a story within a death match. I actually liked the death match that was on the card before this one a lot more. 
****1/4 *



*Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs Akebono & Ryuto Hama *- BJW 02.01.2012

Strong Style Southern Tag. That's really the best way to describe this match and it was really awesome. Hama looked like he could barely move around but someone that's just so large I was impressed with what he was able to do. Akebono looks like someone that can really work a match and really looked like a threat in the ring. The crowd was awesome in the match as well as they really didn't like the Akebono and Hama. They were behind every single strike that was done to them and booed all their offense. As much as they hated the big guys they loved Sasaki and Sekimoto. Great atmosphere and crowd really helped a lot, and usually I'm not a fan of Japanese crowds. 

So you have these 2 giant monsters in the ring with 2 crazy badasses. It's a perfect mix really. Sasaki was the one that found himself being worked over for a majority of the match while he tried to make the big tag to Sekimoto. I liked Akebono and Hama didn't have to break any rules to remain in control of the match, they were the heels but they didn't cheat, they just beat the hell out of the guy that the crowd loved. I thought the ending was really really weak though and to be quite honest it really hurt the match. I'm all for making dominant heels but there was no reason why Sasaki couldn't have made a tag. Instead Sekimoto stood on the apron looking like a fool getting hit over and over as he stood on the apron acting useless. I know the purpose of the match was to build on a feud but as a viewer of this match watching Sasaki get his ass kicked over for so long and totally failing to make a the big tag was a huge let down. 

I'm still giving it a good rating because the fact that I was so annoyed by the ending of the match means that I was caring about the outcome. It did tell a great story and I can't wait to see these guys get in the ring again. Actually the more and more I go on about how much of a let down the ending was the more and more brilliant I'm realizing it was. I should go back and change everything that I just wrote about the ending but I'm going to leave it because that's me in total mark mode. A great way to build a feud. 
****** 


Big Japan is awesome. Just watched the 1/2/12 Big Japan show and it was so easy to watch. The crowd was good and there were all sorts of matches. Going to do my best to see a lot of it this year.


----------



## Pat9010

Daisuke Sekimoto = GOD


----------



## FITZ

Pat9010 said:


> Daisuke Sekimoto = GOD


Speaking of him.... 

*
Suwama vs. Daisuke Sekimoto* (All Japan 1/2/12)

Again the crowd loves Sekimoto, this is the third company I've seen him wrestle in and the crowd was behind everything he did in all 3 matches. Sekimoto managed to get in some offense early on in the match but Suwama proved to be too much for him as he would go on to control a long stretch of the match. The control segment was really well done with Sekimoto selling well and getting in limited offense. When he got it in though it was great. At one point he hit a reall stiff clothesline on Suwama, it looked like we were getting a fighting spirit comeback but Suwama just responded with his own and took out Sekimoto. 

When Sekimoto finally got his comeback going it was really well done as he wasted no time trying to wear down Suwama and went right for the win. I have to say Sekimoto is a great face. For a match that I really have no reason to care about he is just really easy to get behind and root for. I think it has to do with he sells the control segments so well and when he makes his comebacks he looks like he can go and beat anyone. The ending of this was just heart braking because I realized Sekimoto wasn't going to win but the guy just kept fighting. He looked really tough while Suwama just looked unstoppable.

I really loved this. Sekimoto's legit third MOTYC in two days. The crowd was very good for this and they told a great story in the ring. For all 3 of Sekimoto's matches I have been left with the feeling that I really really want to see a rematch. 
***** *​


----------



## EmbassyForever

ROH Gateway to honor:
WGTT-Future Shock ***3/4


----------



## Scavo

*Impact Wrestling 1/12/12:*

Roode vs. Hardy ****1/2*
Storm vs. Angle ****1/2*


----------



## Rah

EmbassyForever said:


> ROH Gateway to honor:
> WGTT-Future Shock ***3/4


Wasn't that last year November?



Scavo said:


> *Impact Wrestling 1/12/12:*
> 
> Roode vs. Hardy ****1/2*
> Storm vs. Angle ****1/2*


You have no idea how much I'm actually looking forward to Impact now. I'm watching it with a friend, tonight (as tradition), but I was completely convinced it would suck so badly. Those ratings are much higher than anything on the PPV so I'm a happy chappy, again.

As for the AJPW Daisuke Sekimoto Vs Suwama match all I can say is wow. There really isn't anything to be said that hasn't been said before. I think I may just have a new favourite Japanese wrestler.
**** 1/4+


----------



## geraldinhio

Scavo said:


> *Impact Wrestling 1/12/12:*
> 
> Roode vs. Hardy ****1/2*
> Storm vs. Angle ****1/2*


_Wow, i'm actually tempted to watch a TNA show. Haven't watched a full show since Johnny Devine won the x title. fpalm

Heard good stuff about Genesis too._


----------



## Bubz

Johnny Devine :lmao

Yeah there wasn't even anything 'bad' on Genesis. It was an enjoyable show, with a few really good matches. Abyss/Bully Ray was hella entertaining.


----------



## Last Chancery

SmackDown -- 1/13/12
Daniel Bryan (c) vs. The Big Show
***1/2

One of my favorite TV matches of the year thus far. Not really wrestling-heavy, but it told a fine story and both Bryan and Show more than played their parts. For a modern no DQ match, it featured a HELL of a lot of chair shots, probably the most I've seen since Austin's insane barrage on Lita and the Hardys a decade ago. I loved how even after Bryan hit Show with the chair like, 15, 20 times, Show still fought back and looked strong. Bryan played the underdog/douche heel to perfection, and Show's reaction after knocking out AJ was nicely done. WWE doesn't normally do these David vs. Goliath matches too often, or too well, but last night's match definitely was above-average and entertaining, and it showed that Bryan is capable of being more than the submission specialist WWE had him pegged to be from his debut. Great character work and story. It's fun to see a different kind of champion -- one who isn't the top dog or leader of the pack, and won't win cleanly or overpower their challenger. Bryan is scraping by, but doing so intelligently and more importantly, entertainingly. He has all the tools to be a great heel: A lack of size, precedent (Cole never believing in him and Bryan proving Cole correct by gathering cheap wins), skill, etc.

Like the Bryan/Henry cage match, this one wasn't heavy on the wrestling, but it was a fun, well-booked, smartly conducted main event with a big, title match feel to it. Matches like these mean so much more when it's the little guy wearing the title.


----------



## Rah

geraldinhio said:


> _Wow, i'm actually tempted to watch a TNA show. Haven't watched a full show since Johnny Devine won the x title. fpalm
> 
> Heard good stuff about Genesis too._


I wasn't properly into Storm/Angle but the Hardy/Roode match was quite easily *** 3/4 and then some. You may find the ending a little flat but, imo, it was actually quite an intelligently booked angle and the best way for the feud to progress. I don't want to write past the gist of the angle quite yet, in case of spoilering you, but I'll gladly discuss it in PM when you've seen it if you didn't like it.

The episode took quite a bit of time to get going (and was incredibly advertising heavy) but throw in those matches and a really fun ODB/Winter match with general Eric Young antics and you've got one of the better TV shows that will probably come out this year.



Last Chancery said:


> SmackDown -- 1/13/12
> Daniel Bryan (c) vs. The Big Show
> ***1/2
> 
> -snip-


I think I may just be able to enjoy mainstream wrestling for two days on the trot.



Bubz said:


> Abyss/Bully Ray was hella entertaining.


Entertaining sure, but nothing compared to what people had me thinking it would be. I dunno, I generally seem to love a PPV others hate so I'm guessing the opposite must also be true. The entire PPV was completely skippable. The following Impact had much better matches.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Rah said:


> Wasn't that last year November?
> 
> 
> You have no idea how much I'm actually looking forward to Impact now. I'm watching it with a friend, tonight (as tradition), but I was completely convinced it would suck so badly. Those ratings are much higher than anything on the PPV so I'm a happy chappy, again.
> 
> As for the AJPW Daisuke Sekimoto Vs Suwama match all I can say is wow. There really isn't anything to be said that hasn't been said before. I think I may just have a new favourite Japanese wrestler.
> **** 1/4+


Yep, but The DVD was released in 2012. is it count?


----------



## Cactus

EmbassyForever said:


> Yep, but The DVD was released in 2012. is it count?


Nah. The show has to be recorded in 2012.


----------



## Rah

The 2011 thread is still open, anyway, seeing how much you enjoyed the main event.

Anyway, I see the Meltzer star ratings for Genesis are out with Abyss Vs Bully Ray coming in at a whopping one star! He is such a troll. Even I wasn't as much a fan of it as others seem to be but even compared to how I feel that's a complete joke (I had it as ***1/4 and MotN).

To each their own, I suppose...


----------



## smitlick

Rah said:


> The 2011 thread is still open, anyway, seeing how much you enjoyed the main event.
> 
> Anyway, I see the Meltzer star ratings for Genesis are out with Abyss Vs Bully Ray coming in at a whopping one star! He is such a troll. Even I wasn't as much a fan of it as others seem to be but even compared to how I feel that's a complete joke (I had it as ***1/4 and MotN).
> 
> To each their own, I suppose...


Nah if you listen to his podcasts regularly he hates anything with dangerous bumps or weapons...


----------



## Scavo

Rah said:


> You have no idea how much I'm actually looking forward to Impact now. I'm watching it with a friend, tonight (as tradition), but I was completely convinced it would suck so badly. Those ratings are much higher than anything on the PPV so I'm a happy chappy, again.


I liked past two episodes of Impact. Pacing of both shows was excellent.

Genesis was good too, with Hardy/Roode being ****1/2*, Ray/Abyss ****3/4* and X Division title match ****1/2*, as the MOTYC's.

As far as rematches on Impact go, I prefer Angle/Storm as it was only the second of their 4 matches that was really, really good. First back in September was great, FR and Genesis were solid, but unspectacular, while this 4th match was superb.

I might little overrated Hardy/Roode from Impact, after watching it again, I'm lowering it to from ***1/2 to *****. Worth checking out, though. Nevertheless, TNA has begin the year very good, and I hope they continue the year with excellent matches and shows.


----------



## geraldinhio

Rah said:


> The 2011 thread is still open, anyway, seeing how much you enjoyed the main event.
> 
> Anyway, I see the Meltzer star ratings for Genesis are out with Abyss Vs Bully Ray coming in at a whopping one star! He is such a troll. Even I wasn't as much a fan of it as others seem to be but even compared to how I feel that's a complete joke (I had it as ***1/4 and MotN).
> 
> To each their own, I suppose...


_I wouldn't listen to a word Meltzer says . I don't think anyone takes him serious anymore. Abyss vs Bully Ray exceeded my expectations by far. Some nice spots, a super hot crowd and wasn't as sloppy as I expected. Probably was MOTN to be honest. 

Anyway , just watched *Daisuke Sekimoto vs Suwama AJPW; 2012/01/02*
Holy fuck this was awesome. I've said it before I'm not a big fan of heavyweight puro matches these days but I obviously haven't been watching enough of Sekimoto( and Suwama for that matter). I've only seen Sekimoto a hand full of times . I watched a few of his BJW tags and seen him against Generico in wXw and Kota Ibushi in DDT . The man is my favourite heavyweight by far at the moment.

The match its self was excellent, some great psychology. Suwama taking out Sekimoto's back with an excellent workover to take away Sekimoto's powerhouse game was great. Sekimoto's comeback was immense too.My jaw drops everytime he hits the deadlift german. I won't go into detail and ruin anyone of the comeback spots but all I'll say is watch this match.

*****1/4+* great stuff. 

I'm going watching Show vs Bryan from Smackdown now. I love this storyline and Bryan is pure gold in his current role. Hopefully Show/Bryan/Henry happens at the Rumble. I would of laughed this time last year if I said I was looking foward to a Show/Henry/Bryan title match as much as I am._


----------



## seabs

*When did a ***1/2 TNA match start getting referred to as MOTYC lol. Even at this early date in the year I've got at least 10 matches higher than that on the old dubious snowflakes scale.

Bryan/Show from SD this week was incredible btw. Match and post match angle together. Both men worked the fuck out of it. Isn't a MOTYC like but everyone needs to see it. Show deserves a fucking oscar or something for the way he sold the angle.*


----------



## RKOG

Watching Wrestle Kingdom today. Excited!


----------



## geraldinhio

Seabs said:


> *When did a ***1/2 TNA match start getting referred to as MOTYC lol. Even at this early date in the year I've got at least 10 matches higher than that on the old dubious snowflakes scale.
> 
> Bryan/Show from SD this week was incredible btw. Match and post match angle together. Both men worked the fuck out of it. Isn't a MOTYC like but everyone needs to see it. Show deserves a fucking oscar or something for the way he sold the angle.*


_Just about to watch Show/Bryan now . Loved their match last week , both are excellent in their roles. Bryan's turn is being worked to perfection. Can't remember a turn like it , where the face wins the belt and his ego gets the better of him and he turns heel. So simple but so effective.

Just about to watch their match from this week on youtube and the top comment cought my eye._



> It was just an fckin accidnet. Ppl open yuur damn eye big. Show didn't even see her she was standing right der and her ass didn't move out da damn way if he did it on purpose he wuldve said nothing bt he was crying cus it was an accident dnt be blamin big show its her fault besides she should've neva been ringside in da first﻿ place


_Oh wow_. :lmao


----------



## Rah

Scavo said:


> I liked past two episodes of Impact. Pacing of both shows was excellent.
> 
> Genesis was good too, with Hardy/Roode being ****1/2*, Ray/Abyss ****3/4* and X Division title match ****1/2*, as the MOTYC's.
> 
> As far as rematches on Impact go, I prefer Angle/Storm as it was only the second of their 4 matches that was really, really good. First back in September was great, FR and Genesis were solid, but unspectacular, while this 4th match was superb.
> 
> I might little overrated Hardy/Roode from Impact, after watching it again, I'm lowering it to from ***1/2 to *****. Worth checking out, though. Nevertheless, TNA has begin the year very good, and I hope they continue the year with excellent matches and shows.


Damn, you dropping the rating probably means I should rewatch it, then. Perhaps with good company the match felt better than it did but I'll admit I loved the hell out of it. Sick bump and great selling in the match, too. Hardy looks good in "defeat" and the storyline continues - with which I'm predicting Hardy taking the title at Victory Road for the circle to come to a close.

As for the Angle/Storm matches, though, I agree 100%. Their first match is definitely my favourite but for a TV rematch, Thursday's match wasn't in any shape bad.

Anyway, as Seabs said, these aren't MotYC's. But they did make me happy...



smitlick said:


> Nah if you listen to his podcasts regularly he hates anything with dangerous bumps or weapons...





geraldinhio said:


> I wouldn't listen to a word Meltzer says


I would rather pour acid into my ears than listen to Alvarez's annoying voice nor can I really be bothered to watch podcasts on the whole. That aside perhaps I'm missing something but as someone who absolutely loathes deathmatches I can appreciate, and even really enjoy one that is done superbly. Especially being someone taken so seriously (just stepping through news reports and the WWE section you can see just how much people hang off of his words) surely the onus is on him to thus be as impartial as possible in rating the match? Hell, if he's not willing to do that then at least give the match an N/A or something.


----------



## Bubz

> It was just an fckin accidnet. Ppl open yuur damn eye big. Show didn't even see her she was standing right der and her ass didn't move out da damn way if he did it on purpose he wuldve said nothing bt he was crying cus it was an accident dnt be blamin big show its her fault besides she should've neva been ringside in da first﻿ place


:lmao Youtube is full of the biggest idiots.


----------



## Scavo

Seabs said:


> *When did a ***1/2 TNA match start getting referred to as MOTYC lol. Even at this early date in the year I've got at least 10 matches higher than that on the old dubious snowflakes scale.
> *


*
Haven't quite yet watched a lot of Puro and Indy stuff in 2012, so that's part of the reason why they're my candidates for now. It's probably going to change very soon, according to the multiple reviews here.*


----------



## geraldinhio

Bubz said:


> :lmao Youtube is full of the biggest idiots.


_I know , this comment nearly killed me. Can't believe it was the highest rated comment too. :lmao 

Hearing great things about a match from the Resistance Pro promotion . It was a show called Rise and the match oddly enough is Cabana vs Davey.  From reading the results they said it was the second best Davey match they seen behind Davey/Shingo from DGUSA.Either he hasn't seen much Davey matches or else this was fucking awesome . I'll believe it when I see it. 

El Generico vs Pac was also said to have started off really good and more than likely would of been a MOTYC but then Petey Williams waltzes in . They wrestle again ......then Matt Cross adds himself to the match. fpalm Said to have a good finishing stretch but Peatey and Cross killed the match. 

The Daivari Brothers vs Robert Anthony and MR.450 was said to be a very good match and a ton of fun. Show could be worth checking out . Also who is MR.450 ? He was said to impress many with his preformance ._


----------



## seancarleton77

Daniel Bryan vs. The Big Show ***3/4


----------



## Bubz

Yeah Bryan/Show was great for the second week in a row. They are finally giving Bryan some character and he is so good in his role. It's really great to see they might finally be having some faith in him.

'How could you be so reckless? She is 95 pounds! You are 500 pounds! You are a bastard!' :lmao

Oh and Big Show...what an actor!


----------



## smitlick

geraldinhio said:


> _I know , this comment nearly killed me. Can't believe it was the highest rated comment too. :lmao
> 
> Hearing great things about a match from the Resistance Pro promotion . It was a show called Rise and the match oddly enough is Cabana vs Davey.  From reading the results they said it was the second best Davey match they seen behind Davey/Shingo from DGUSA.Either he hasn't seen much Davey matches or else this was fucking awesome . I'll believe it when I see it.
> 
> El Generico vs Pac was also said to have started off really good and more than likely would of been a MOTYC but then Petey Williams waltzes in . They wrestle again ......then Matt Cross adds himself to the match. fpalm Said to have a good finishing stretch but Peatey and Cross killed the match.
> 
> The Daivari Brothers vs Robert Anthony and MR.450 was said to be a very good match and a ton of fun. Show could be worth checking out . Also who is MR.450 ? He was said to impress many with his preformance ._



"Mr. 450" Hammett

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yurmet


----------



## WFAfan4Life

Well... I saw "Die Hard" Eddie Edwards vs "The Infamous" Bobby Fish last night at NECW's New Years Evolutiin last night live and that was a great match. Great spots, great back and forth action, great crowd involvement... I am not sure if they put it up yet, but check out their site @ www.necw.tv

Not enough people will see how good this match really was


----------



## Zatiel

Is this crazy Cabana/Richards match available yet, or is all the buzz from live attendance?


----------



## Rah

geraldinhio said:


> Also who is MR.450 ? He was said to impress many with his preformance .[/I]


He's a 24 year old Puerto Rican born wrestler. Real name is John Yurnet, with his most common ring name being Hammett. He's a Dreamwave regular and had quite a few matches for CLASH.

Here is the entire feedback for the Resistance Pro event. Quite a long read but it's not terribly written so it's definitely worth a complete read considering Resistance Pro is still a beginner promotion and might actually be worth our investment. Another addendum (not mentioned on his post) is that PAC took a nasty bump to his knees. There isn't note of him looking banged up in the write up, but he does make note of sickenly hitting his knees/legs on the guard-rail while doing a moonsault to the outside.

Also: :cuss: Matt Cross ruins everything...


Zatiel said:


> Is this crazy Cabana/Richards match available yet, or is all the buzz from live attendance?


Nah, everyone is going on reports.


----------



## topper1

Zatiel said:


> Is this crazy Cabana/Richards match available yet, or is all the buzz from live attendance?


It's Cabana my guess is he did a dance and some fan in attendance laughed and decided it was 5 stars. Also its Resistance Pro how many great matches are had there? my guess is its a decent match that seemed better then the garbage they have most of the time.

I'll watch the match with an open mind and if I give it **** or more I'll be impressed and I'll keep quiet about Colt. I did enjoy there match last year although it would have been much better if Colt would have sold his arm


----------



## Zatiel

topper1 said:


> It's Cabana my guess is he did a dance and some fan in attendance laughed and decided it was 5 stars. Also its Resistance Pro how many great matches are had there? my guess is its a decent match that seemed better then the garbage they have most of the time.
> 
> I'll watch the match with an open mind and if I give it **** or more I'll be impressed and I'll keep quiet about Colt. I did enjoy there match last year although it would have been much better if Colt would have sold his arm


There is not one sentence in this that leads me to believe you'll watch it with an open mind.

As someone who doesn't give a crap about star ratings, if Richards did a comedy match at all I'll be happy to watch it.


----------



## Concrete

topper1 said:


> It's Cabana my guess is he did a dance and some fan in attendance laughed and decided it was 5 stars. Also its Resistance Pro how many great matches are had there? my guess is its a decent match that seemed better then the garbage they have most of the time.
> 
> I'll watch the match with an open mind and if I give it **** or more I'll be impressed and I'll keep quiet about Colt. I did enjoy there match last year although it would have been much better if Colt would have sold his arm


Did you just ask how many great matches have happened in Resistance Pro? That seems like an odd question when they are only on their second show. Give them time then feel free to dump on them.


----------



## topper1

Zatiel said:


> There is not one sentence in this that leads me to believe you'll watch it with an open mind.


How bout the part where I enjoyed there ROH match last year aside from Colt's awful selling?

I'll admit I assumed Resistance Pro was just some random indy how long they have been running means little to me. I just felt like bashing Cabanan a little bit its been a while :evil:


----------



## Rah

topper1 said:


> It's Cabana my guess is he did a dance and some fan in attendance laughed and decided it was 5 stars.


While I tend to agree with some of your belief (in that Cabana is over-rated) he has been a part of some great "serious" matches. I'd suggest, though, that before you argue against the match you read the breakdown I linked to in my previous post. In which you will find that while the match started off with Colt's usual comedy shtick, the match did progress into a competitive wrestling style.

I also suggest that you don't pick on "lesser" Indy shows and hold the notion that they're void of anything at all bearably watchable. While this may be the case for some there are others that have shown promise and are also usually home to the next big stars (they all have to start off in the business somewhere, and at lower talent levels). It's like WWE marks bashing RoH/PWG for being a low-grade, backyard promotion of no-drawing hacks. None of us would like such a comment and, as such, I think it only fair we don't propagate such a belief within the Indy environ.

Whether large or small, in the backyard or in MSG, size doesn't matter. It's the product you put out that does.


----------



## Rickey

TV MOTY for me so far is *Roode/Hardy* with *Angle/Storm *as a runner up. Of course these most likely won't last until the end of the year. I liked how the last hour was pretty much dedicated to these 2 feuds. Thought the drama was there in Hardy/Roode, and the crowd was actually hyped up too. Angle/Storm was a nice match with a good finish, people always talk about _"Them old guys in TNA always taking away from the youngsters!"_ but Angle proves that wrong. Thought this was a nice blow off to the feud leading into the winner of the Roode/Hardy match.

*Daniel Bryan/Big Show*...eh, it was okay. More so a match to look back on for storyline purposes though.(considering what happened with AJ Lee) Preferred the two above matches.

Note: Haven't seen any puro this year and the ROH shows have been recaps so far.


----------



## seancarleton77

Don't knock Cabana, one of the only watchable singles Davey matches in North America in 2011 was vs Cabana in Chicago.


----------



## Bubz

Anyone know if the 03/01 AJPW show has anything good on it? I'm presuming the Tag Title match is gonna' be good.


----------



## mk92071

*SoCal Pro Wrestling - 1/14/12
Tommy Wilson vs. Kid Caramba 
*
I don't usually see fantastic wrestling like this match when I see my local indies, but I was shocked to see this great of a match at one. This match was amazing in so many ways. A little backstory to it is Tommy Wilson has been the heavyweight champion for 364 days, retaining by controversial means including his last match against Kid Caramba in November (which was also good but nothing of this level). I'm a huge Tommy Wilson mark, and that helped this match a lot. I knew going into this that it was likely Tommy would lose, but this match had so many great spots and near falls I thought anything could happen. This match was overbooked in hindsight, but it was booked in an amazing way that by the last 5 minutes or so, everyone was on their feet. The several wrestlers that had made run ins (Tommy's stable and the faces to cancel them out) were at ringside similar to Kingston/Quack and it made for a great feel. The last several minutes had tons of near falls were I had no idea who would win and innovative manuevers from both men. In the end, I was emotionally invested so heavily that I was holding my head sad when Tommy lost, but proud that I witnessed such a good match. They did everything humanly possible to ensure this match would be great and it delivered. I never thought I'd see such a good match out of such a small company that gets less than 100 attendance a show.
*
****1/4*


----------



## Noah Mark

Daisuke Sekimoto/Yuji Okabayashi vs Akebono/Ryoto Hama-1/3/2012 ****.


----------



## Bubz

*Sekimoto/Okabayashi vs Akebono/Hama AJPW 3/1*
Another really good tag match. I didn't like it as much as the tag with Yoshihito Sasaki from the day before (I think) because it didn't really have the classic tag formula that match had where one guy gets worked over leading to the hot tag, but it was more back and forth with the two smaller guys trying to take the big guys off their feet. Okabayashi suplexing Hama was awesome. Sekimoto seemed to take it easy in this one, but can you really blame the guy? He's wrestled three days in a row and twice in a day putting on great matches.******


----------



## Rah

Bubz said:


> *Sekimoto/Okabayashi vs Akebono/Hama AJPW 3/1*
> Another really good tag match. I didn't like it as much as the tag with Yoshihito Sasaki from the day before (I think) because it didn't really have the classic tag formula that match had where one guy gets worked over leading to the hot tag


And that's the reason I preferred it to their tag the day before.

Instead of the "partner in peril" hot-tag story they tried to tell a story of strength Vs size and it paid off beautifully well. Sekimoto's "PLANCHAAAAAA~!" to the outside was botched quite badly (though noting Akebono's size him simply bouncing off his fat stomach like a trampoline might somewhat be plausible) but other than that I really cannot fault it.

I don't particularly find Akebono/Hama to be good workers, either, but their past two matches show just how to hide such short-comings when its their size that's focused on. Simply great stuff and a great first three days of the year for wrestling.
*Rating:* 4.25-


----------



## seabs

Rah said:


> Sekimoto's "PLANCHAAAAAA~!" to the outside was botched quite badly (though noting Akebono's size him simply bouncing off his fat stomach like a trampoline might somewhat be plausible) but other than that I really cannot fault it.


*I thought that originally but Akebono's not likely to realisticly take the same bump off it that a smaller guy would and did enough to knock him back. I don't think there was anything botched about it really.*

*Daisuke Sekimoto & Yuji Okabayashi vs Akebono & Ryuto Hama - All Asia Tag Team Championships - AJPW 03.01.2012*
_Didn't have great expectations for this going in because their previous matches together have been meh but this far exceeded them. I don't think a STF would have worked as well for them because it's in All Japan now Big Japan so Akebono and Hama aren't as over as heels and vice versa. Instead they just worked a really fun sprint and they got it right. Okabayashi finally getting a one man suplex on Hama was terrific and that the final stretch with them two was brilliant._

******

*Kenny Omega vs Hiroshi Yamato - AJPW World Jr. Heavyweight Championship - AJPW 03.01.2012*
_Again for this I didn't really have legit MOTYC hopes for it but it fucking ruled and it's my MOTY right now, level with Daisuke/Suwama. Omega's heel shtick is fucking awesome and in this environment it sticks out even more too which only adds to it. On top of that when you pair it with a great babyface like Yamato and also factor in that both of them are great wrestlers you're destined for a great match. Yamato's another one of these All Japan guys who's really coming through now as a legit great worker that everyone's looking over. He's always willing to kill himself to get a big match and he has the best fiery charisma ever for a babyface. There's one spot where Nakazawa whips him into the rail when Omega's distracting the ref and Yamato totally shrugs it off and charges at him with a spear which ruled. Nakazawa doing the heel shtick with Omega is awesome too and he's a terrific character. They do an awesome spot right at the start too where Omega keeps stalling to drink some water and the ref takes the bottle off him which leads to Omega not swallowing the water and spitting it in Yamato's face and then they follow it up with Yamato going crazy and returning the spot. I don't need brainbusters through chairs to make me smile, just give me goofy heel shtick with bottles of water and I'll never stop smiling. Match goes 25 minutes and the clip 3 minutes out of but it doesn't feel that long at all and they never seem to be going long for the sake of going long and they don't even have that much of an OTT finish either. The whole match built really well through each stage leading up to the big final few minutes. I could have done without Omega's shitty looking snap suplexes at the end though. Yamato came off great at the end too refusing to die and kicking out loads of stuff but never anything to big to discredit Omega and any of his top moves._

*****1/4+*


----------



## Chismo

Man, I'm so glad that All Japan is getting better and better. They are really good since 2009.


----------



## Rah

Seabs said:


> *I thought that originally but Akebono's not likely to realisticly take the same bump off it that a smaller guy would and did enough to knock him back. I don't think there was anything botched about it really.*


I've rewatched it a few times and I'm still not particularly happy with it, but I can somewhat see where you're coming from. Akebono may be a real life Humpty Dumpty but Sekimoto isn't exactly small, either. It's not like it hurt the rating for me, though.

Will watch the Kenny Omega vs Hiroshi Yamato match, tonight, and post a review then. I was on the fence with it, tbh, and with the "Seiya Sanada & KAI vs Dark Ozz & Dark Cuervo" match. 

I haven't seen any of them work but I've only ever heard good things about Dark Ozz. Will check that out, too, seeing it's just gone up on Youtube.


----------



## Bubz

Rah said:


> And that's the reason I preferred it to their tag the day before.
> 
> Instead of the "partner in peril" hot-tag story they tried to tell a story of strength Vs size and it paid off beautifully well. Sekimoto's "PLANCHAAAAAA~!" to the outside was botched quite badly (though noting Akebono's size him simply bouncing off his fat stomach like a trampoline might somewhat be plausible) but other than that I really cannot fault it.
> 
> I don't particularly find Akebono/Hama to be good workers, either, but their past two matches show just how to hide such short-comings when its their size that's focused on. Simply great stuff and a great first three days of the year for wrestling.
> *Rating:* 4.25-


No doubt they worked a terrific match and it did have a really good story depite it being a short sprint style match. I just preffered the structure of the match a day earlier. I can see someone liking this more though no problem.

I kind of diasgree about Akebono/Hama. I think Akebono especially is a really good worker for his build and size. The plancha from Sekimoto was actually one of my favorite parts of the match as well . I loved how he just hit him and fell to the floor, I doubt it was planned like that though since it did look like a really hard landing for Sekimoto.


----------



## seabs

Rah said:


> I've rewatched it a few times and I'm still not particularly happy with it, but I can somewhat see where you're coming from. Akebono may be a real life Humpty Dumpty but Sekimoto isn't exactly small, either. It's not like it hurt the rating for me, though.
> 
> Will watch the Kenny Omega vs Hiroshi Yamato match, tonight, and post a review then. I was on the fence with it, tbh, and with the "Seiya Sanada & KAI vs Dark Ozz & Dark Cuervo" match.
> 
> I haven't seen any of them work but I've only ever heard good things about Dark Ozz. Will check that out, too, seeing it's just gone up on Youtube.


*The Ozz/Cuervo tag is average.*


Bubz said:


> No doubt they worked a terrific match and it did have a really good story depite it being a short sprint style match. I just preffered the structure of the match a day earlier. I can see someone liking this more though no problem.
> 
> I kind of diasgree about Akebono/Hama. I think Akebono especially is a really good worker for his build and size. The plancha from Sekimoto was actually one of my favorite parts of the match as well . I loved how he just hit him and fell to the floor, I doubt it was planned like that though since it did look like a really hard landing for Sekimoto.


*Akebono's actually a terrific worker. Or at least he has been in the past few months. I've been praising the 6 man from Z1 from 2/10/11 for ages but nobody seems to have watched it. YOU SHOULD! For Akebono if nothing else based on that post.*


----------



## EmbassyForever

PWG Fear:
-Young Bucks/Dragon & Steen ****3/4
-Dick Togo/El Generico ****1/4


----------



## bigbuxxx

EmbassyForever said:


> PWG Fear:
> -Young Bucks/Dragon & Steen ****3/4
> -Dick Togo/El Generico ****1/4


had my hopes up i could find this somewhere. might want to post this in the 2011 motyc thread as well.


----------



## Bubz

Seabs said:


> *Akebono's actually a terrific worker. Or at least he has been in the past few months. I've been praising the 6 man from Z1 from 2/10/11 for ages but nobody seems to have watched it. YOU SHOULD! For Akebono if nothing else based on that post.*


haha I'll get on it then either tonight or tomorrow.


----------



## Bubz

*Kenny Omega vs Hiroshi Yamato - AJPW Jr Heavyweight Championship 3/1*
I was a big fan of the first half of the match, I though it ruled with Omegas awesome heel antics and stuff, but I wasn't as big a fan of the second half. They just went all out and did loads of stuff, kind of like the Omega/KAI match from last year but this was better. I agree with seabs about the snap dragon suplexes though, they didn't really look good and weren't needed imo. Still this was great fun I just could have done with some time cut off. ******


----------



## Caponex75

Cabana and Richards having a MOTY? I call shenanigans.


----------



## Concrete

Kenny Omega vs Hiroshi Yamato - AJPW Jr Heavyweight Championship 3/1: ****
What a good match. I found myself asking myself the whole match how Kenny Omega hasn't been signed by either WWE or TNA. I know he was signed to a development deal at one point but he is just so good right now. He is able to portray his character, either a really good heel like he was here or an over-the-top babyface, better than almost anyone else out there and he does it within the confines of a match. Yamato beats up Nakazawa every time he tries to get involved which I thought was great. I saw Yamato's match vs. KAI last year which is my only familiarity with him and I thought he was phenomenal in that match and this just proved it wasn't a fluke. A very good match and being I have only seen a few WWE matches so far this year, this must be my MOTY so far but it will probably stay in my top 5 for a couple of months.


----------



## Bruce L

*Kenny Omega vs. Hiroshi Yamato (1/3)*
I love Kenny Omega. He's the only performer in the business today (maybe ever) who can work comedy into a wrestling match in a way that I find palatable, but man, it's gratifying to see him in a straight-up junior heavyweight-style bout. I've never had much of a "feel" for Yamato; he seems to me like a guy who'll have a better-than-average match with great performers, but not somebody worth going out of your way to watch in and of himself. He more than carried his weight here, though, and the crowd was behind him in a way that made the whole affair that much more exciting. It's true that in the second half, as Bubz says, "they just went all out and did loads of stuff." But IMO, there's quite a bit to be said for going all out and doing loads of stuff when you do it well, and in this match, Yamato and (especially) Omega certainly did. Great match.


*Bad Intentions vs. Ten-Koji (1/4)*
There's no way a match this short should feel this epic. That it does is a testament to the caliber of the teams involved. I was worried that Ten-Koji would've lost a step from their '00-'01 heyday, or even since their '08 revival, but (maybe due to the modest length of the match) they looked as much like world-beaters here as they ever have -- very impressive, considering that ever since they won the IWGP belts Bad Intentions have been looking like the foremost world-beating tag team of the past decade. I loved their reign; their best defenses were among the best tag matches I've seen in years, and even some of their middling defenses (vs. Muscle Orchestra, for example, or vs. Suzuki & Archer) were at least ***½ in my book. Even as long as it was, I'm sorry to see it end, but if Ten-Koji can keep looking as good as they looked here, the belts should be in good hands. Yet another ****+ Bad Intentions IWGP Tag Title match, and it's a shame that it looks to be the last one.

Oh, and Bad Intentions' entrance is several different kinds of awesome.


----------



## Noah Mark

Eterno/Daga/Flamita vs Sadico/Trauma I/Trauma II-AULL 1/14/12. This was one of my favorite Lucha matches this year. Great matwork in the beginning with Trauma II & Eterno. Nobody works the arms & legs like Trauma II can. Right now from what I've seen the Traumas are either 1 or 2 for top tag teams in the world currently. ****1/4.


----------



## FITZ

*Daisuke Sekimoto & Yuji Okabayashi vs Akebono & Ryuto Hama (All Japan 1/3/12)*

Well fuck, I just wrote this long review about how much I loved the match and then realized that Sekimoto was teaming with someone different. I wrote the whole thing about how it was a great rematch with him and Sasaki and made all these references to the last match. So fuck. It would have been the perfect rematch as well. If Okabayashi was Sasaki here is my review:




Spoiler: FUCK



So how does Sekimoto follow up his 3 MOTYC in 2 days? He goes and tries to have one the next day so he can have 4 MOTYC in 3 days. They took a slightly different approach as Sekimoto and Sasaki actually managed to hold their own in this for a while as they got in significant offense against Hama. While all of this was going on though you could just feel that Akebono was getting more and more angry and you just knew when he came in he was going to kick some serious ass. When Sasaki took a shot at him standing on the apron and Akebono no sold the shot and just look pissed you knew that someone was going to get their ass kicked. He did kick some asss but it wasn't on the level that I was expecting. 

Unlike the last match I actually thought there was a chance that Sekimoto and Sasaki would win this. They were impossible not to get behind as they threw everything they had against the two monsters they were in the ring with. After seeing the first match they had with each other seeing this was incredible. I felt like a proud father when they Sasaki managed to suplex Hama and follow up a minute or so later with a 3 count. They threw everything they had at the Hama and Akebono and managed to somehow escpae with a victory. 

I liked this better then the last match they had. As enjoyable as the structure was on that match I liked this one more because the face team that you immediately fall in love in actually made me think they could win and I never really got that in the first match. Sekimoto continues to be on fire as the story in this was incredible. Just make sure you watch their first match so you can really enjoy this one. 
****1/4



I still thought the match was great but the fact that it wasn't a rematch takes a lot of the story away from the match. I guess I'll just keep the rating the same since I enjoyed it so much and 3 of the 4 were the same but this just totally sucks. 


_All Japan Junior Heavywight Championship Match (1/3/12)_
*Kenny Omega vs. Hiroshi Yamato*

Omega was incredible in this match. He probably plays his character in his matches better than just about anyone else out there. He goes into the match really cocky and (he said he had no doubt in his mind that he would win this match in a promo he did) and despite the fact that throughout the match Hiroshi showed to be a real threat he just didn't let up with his antics and overall being an obnoxious jerk. You just want to slap him 10 minutes into the match when he's going around like a fool doing the Rick Rude neck breaker and other stupid things. It's important to remember too that Omega wasn't in control the whole mach either, Yamato had gotten plenty of offense in already at this point and I think had shown he belonged in the ring with Omega. Yet it took Omega so long to realize any of this. 

When you really thought there was a chance Yamato would win this match Omega stopped taking him lightly but at that time he was on the verge of losing the match. Omega was perfect here and he made Hiroshi Yamato look incredible. The ending was brutal as Omega dished out some of the craziest looking suplexes I've ever seen and Yamato wouldn't stay down for them. Yamato was good as the babyface and playing his character and he held his own in the ring with Omega. 

This was really awesome. A lot of cool looking moves and a kickass story is exactly what I want to see in a wrestling match. 
*****1/4*


----------



## DFUSCMAN

It's not a moty but bryan vs. henry this past smackdown is really showcasing bryan's heel character and how great he is right now.



Spoiler: bryan's heel work



Bryan from the start of the match was trying to get on the nerves of the lumberjacks, saying You can't touch me multiple times and just constantly berating them. Bryan realizes he can't beat henry because he's dominating him throughout the match. Bryan attacks a lumberjack and gets back in the ring after he's attacked. When henry's outside the ring bryan starts kicking at the lumberjacks. Then all hell breaks loose and bryan is the guy who smartly started all the chaos.

Bryan then sneaks out the back door with his title because the match is ruled a no contest due to the lumberjacks.



Bryan right now is playing an absolutely fantastic heel right now. He calls himself in a wwe.com promo after the match not only the best wrestler in the world but also the smartest wrestler in the world.

I love his character right now, the smart heel is such a great character for bryan. And wwe is booking his reign to perfection right now.


----------



## seancarleton77

DFUSCMAN said:


> It's not a moty but bryan vs. henry this past smackdown is really showcasing bryan's heel character and how great he is right now.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: bryan's heel work
> 
> 
> 
> Bryan from the start of the match was trying to get on the nerves of the lumberjacks, saying You can't touch me multiple times and just constantly berating them. Bryan realizes he can't beat henry because he's dominating him throughout the match. Bryan attacks a lumberjack and gets back in the ring after he's attacked. When henry's outside the ring bryan starts kicking at the lumberjacks. Then all hell breaks loose and bryan is the guy who smartly started all the chaos.
> 
> Bryan then sneaks out the back door with his title because the match is ruled a no contest due to the lumberjacks.
> 
> 
> 
> Bryan right now is playing an absolutely fantastic heel right now. He calls himself in a wwe.com promo after the match not only the best wrestler in the world but also the smartest wrestler in the world.
> 
> I love his character right now, the smart heel is such a great character for bryan. And wwe is booking his reign to perfection right now.



Agreed. Bryan was great on Raw & SmackDown. I particularly liked his comment about being fond of AJ, what a dick!


----------



## Bubz

Bryan/Henry Lumberjack match was so awesome. Bryan is the fucking man!


----------



## seancarleton77

That he is, Bubz, that he is.


----------



## 777

Kenny Omega vs Hiroshi Yamato - AJPW World Jr. Heavyweight Championship - AJPW 03.01.2012

Great match. Loved Omega's heel antics and Yamato made a great straight-man. This match seemed to have a little bit of everything. Thus, my first early MOTY contender. I may start to watch AJPW more regularly based off of some of the great stuff I've been watching in January 2012.


----------



## Chismo

*DGUSA, Open The Ultimate Gate:*

*Sami Callihan vs. A.R. Fox*

In a pre-match promo, Fox demands adding the Tables stipulation on Anything Goes and shit is on! This was a sick match with great storytelling - hatred and natural intensity. You combine that with some SICK bumps, great crowd and smashing execution, and you have a legit MOTYC. These guys are awesome, especially Callihan. Another beautiful things is - this was only the first chapter.
*Rating: *****

*The Spiked Mohicans vs. Masaaki Mochizuki & Jimmy Susumu* _*(Tag Team Championship)*_

Fantastic main event, which just tells you how awesome this was because I thought the show peaked with PAC/Tozawa. The finishing stretch was batshit insane, but they stayed classy, which is very important. Insane back-and-forth sequences. The post match sutff with Blood Warriors and Low Ki was great too, and it set up Low Ki vs. Pretty Much Everyone. I loved this.
*Rating: *****


----------



## Ali Dia

Just finished the rumble. Man that show sucked. So let down they didn't let Punk/Ziggler have a proper match. Only match I rated *** or better was the rumble at ***1/4. entertaining enough I guess, but man the shallowness of the WWE roster was highlighted huge.


----------



## Bubz

Yeah the rumble match itself was dull as hell. Cena/Kane was really good imo, and the after match stuff was awesome. I mean holy shit they have made Kane 'cool' again, they booked him like an absolute monster. The match itself showed that you don't have to do a ton of flashy moves to get me into it, i mean Kane didn't do much but punches, a few rest holds and a couple signature moves, but it was really good. Cena's performance was great as well selling the shit out of everything and being dominated. Probably around ***3/4, seriously.

Punk/Zigler was so dissapointing. They were having a great match until the overbooking started with Big Johny. Some of their exchanges were brilliant and the counters were fucking awesome like the GTS into the fameasser and the fameasser into that sick sitout powerbomb from Punk. Such a shame the end was overbooked. ***1/4 probably.


----------



## Ali Dia

I agree on Cena/Kane being entertaining. Thought it was second best thing on the show, my rating for it doesn't take into account post match which was good. I just didn't think in anyway Punk/Ziggler was good. Punk dominated which made no sense to me, Ziggler looked weak in the process and the match was so stop start, I just couldn't call it a good match let alone a great match that somehow others think it was. Hugely disappointed with it.


----------



## Concrete

I don't think I had the same feelings on the Rumble as some other people I guess. I thought the best match on the show was Ziggler vs. Punk at ***3/4. I thought it was very good but the ending bit prevented it from getting into MOTYC territory. I also thought the Royal Rumble itself was really entertaining. It was just a bunch of fun. I liked the fact that #s 2 and 3 were former partners of the Miz which was a good way to start things.Then we had the hilarious Mr.Socko vs. The Cobra. I thought the announcers getting in on it was kinda fun. I don't think other people will think that but when you have two former champions in the announcers booth and one of the most hated men in the company there then I am okay with it. And being they each had someone they had had a rivalry with then it made it seemed like they weren't just filler. The end was awesome with Jericho and Sheamus. I wanted Jericho to win since that would just end better at Wrestlemania but the way it went with Jericho getting in more offense but also skinning the cat on more than one occasion was fine by me.Jericho flying through the air from the Brogue Kick was a thing of beauty.


----------



## Bubz

Jericho is the man. I'm just hoping they follow through with this 'end of the world' thing, but having him just wrestle the rumble like a face was kind of odd and I hope they haven't ruined it. Also I have to admit I did find the commentators entering the rumble really entertaining, especially when Booker stood up and he just had his wrestling tights on with the top half of his suit lol and Cole entering was actually really funny imo. I was entertained so I can't complain. I could never rate the rumble match anyway.


----------



## Zatiel

Certainly no MOTYCs last night. The PPV was generally fun, passable stuff, nothing worth paying for except the Rumble itself.

Confused by people who were disappointed in Punk/Ziggler. That match was plainly built around the GM messing with Punk. Ziggler got a little more embarrassed than I expected, but it was pretty much exactly what the build should have led you to believe.


----------



## geraldinhio

_I had a blast watching the rumble to be honest. Didn't go in expecting any MOTYC to be honest . The cage match was fun and Bryan was great again. Kane and Cena was decent considering I hate Kane matches. Ziggler/Punk was everything I expected, some great wrestling with Laurinaitis antics combined. The Rumble match it's self was great. I'm not a massive fan of Kofi but marked the fuck out at walking at his hands. Ricardo , Foley and Santino was pure gold too.:lmao Some nice suprises , good wrestling and overall a really fun and easy show to watch._


----------



## Rickey

Punk vs. Bryan, Champion vs. Champion-Raw 1/30/12 Get at me.


----------



## Bubz

Bryan and Punk just had a fucking great match on Raw. Man, that was so awesome to see those two given time to put on that match. Thankyou WWE. It had a screwy finish but I marked big time for it. Jericho/Punk is going to be so good if that's the way they are going for mania and it looks like it is.

The match was an easy **** by the way.


----------



## FITZ

Punk/Danielson that just happened 10 minutes ago was amazing. What I loved so much about it was that the crowd wasn't into the match at all when the match started. Now I know this usually isn't something that you would call a good thing but the way the crowd went from dead to getting really into the match was so impressive. It kind of sucked how there a commercial break but judging how the crowd was acting I think we missed a control segment from Bryan that got him a ton of heat because when the show came back I heard a "CM Punk" right away and saw Bryan working over the arm. 

Punk did a great job selling the arm. When he hit the knee to the face in the corner and set up for the bulldog but had to stop and switch arms I was so happy. Punk did really well as the face here and he made Bryan look amazing, something that the big guys on SD haven't been able to do so well since Bryan got the title. In fact I would say both guys came out looking stronger. 

I didn't like the ending all that much but at least Bryan kept in character and celebrated like he really won something. I can only hope that some day they will get the chance to steal the show on a PPV.


----------



## Nuski

Punk/Bryan - ****. No lie, it was awesome. Ziggler/Orton also deserves a shoutout


----------



## antoniomare007

Yeah, great TV match. The only thing missing for me was DAT BOY D-Bryan doing some trash talk and responding to Punk's "Best in The World" comments (although I guess that could have been an issue considering the Jericho/Punk feud that's gonna take place in the coming months).


----------



## Bubz

Yeah Ziggler/Orton was really good too.

What Taylor said about the Punk/Bryan match is spot on. I was just marking out the whole time for Bryan doing stuff he hasn't done since his ROH days like the way he worked over Punk's arm with that evil grin on his face. Punk sold amazingly especially on the bulldog spot. These guys almost wrestled an old ROH style of match and I'm pretty sure they let them go out there and completely call their own match. I don't even think it's a case of overrating it because they were both 'roh guys', the match really was awesome.


----------



## Last Chancery

antoniomare007 said:


> Yeah, great TV match. The only thing missing for me was DAT BOY D-Bryan doing some trash talk and responding to Punk's "Best in The World" comments (although I guess that could have been an issue considering the Jericho/Punk feud that's gonna take place in the coming months).


He _did_ trash talk and respond to Punk's "best in the world" comments. Rewatch the segment where Bryan is working over Punk's arm, I believe it's right after they came back from commercial break. Bryan looks up and laughs to himself as he mutters, "Best in the world? Best in the world?" It's subtle but it's there.

The match was full of subtlety and amazing selling. Both looked crisp and no noticeable slip-ups. I too dug the "ROH-style" match they worked and I wasn't fazed by the ending since it not only set up a potential WrestleMania match between Jericho and Punk, it not only kept both competitors looking strong, but it kept to Bryan's heel character. Smart finish, in my opinion. Easy ****.


----------



## DFUSCMAN

FUCK!

Bryan/Punk from raw was awesome. Easy **** match. Great pacing, good story, great selling, just a really good tv match


----------



## Chismo

Punk and Danielson had a match, huh? I need to see that.


----------



## Corey

Well Raw was pretty damn good last night. Everyone's already said all the major points to Bryan/Punk, so I don't need to say much else. The finish really sucked but I totally understand why it happened. It's a shame we missed the control segment from Bryan though. Match was going along really well but it's just not quite there as a motyc for me. Give em 20 minutes on ppv and they'll tear the house down. ****3/4* 

I really enjoyed Orton/Ziggler too. Ziggler countering Orton's powerslam plus his ddt was great. Both these matches need to be on the Best of RAW/Smackdown 2012 dvd (yes, I'm looking that far in advance) ****1/2*


----------



## Cactus

I loved the Bryan vs Punk match last night too. I really did appreciate the little things in the match like Bryan wrenching Punk's arm like he's William Regal and Punk having to switch arms before the bulldog. The best WWE TV match in years. The last time I went over four stars for a TV match was the Edge versus Christian match from May 2010. ******


----------



## Tanner1495

I gave Punk/Bryan ****1/4 and Ziggler/Orton ***1/2. Holy shit I marked for Bryan/Punk, just imagine if they went five more minutes without Jericho interference :mark:


----------



## mateuspfc

Man, Punk vs. Bryan was one BADASS matchup! ****1/4 from me! You can kill every plan laid out for WrestleMania for these two and just put them together in Miami, and there's your MOTY.

Plus, I think it really showed why Bryan deserves to be the World Champion, he looked like a world beater in the ring for the first time since he won the WHC. Great, great matchup, probably won't be topped as TV MOTY.


----------



## Ali Dia

Orton/Ziggler is about ***
Punk/Bryan ***1/2, better than anything at the Rumble ppv


----------



## milkman7

My current MOTY is from IWRG:

Black Terry vs Chico Che 1/22/12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLcwpepEeZg&feature=g-u-u&context=G2b9a730FUAAAAAAABAA

These guys just go out there and have a bloody brawl. I still need to see their hair vs hair from a couple of nights ago, but as of right now, this is the best match of this short year.

1. Black Terry vs Chico Che - IWRG 1/22/12
2. Daniel Bryan vs The Big Show vs Mark Henry - WWE Royal Rumble 1/29/12
3. Daniel Bryan vs The Big Show - WWE Smackdown 1/6/12
4. Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk - WWE Monday Night Raw 1/30/12

pretty easy to tell who the WWE MVP is so far this year.


----------



## ddog121

Current MOTY List ( Have a ton of catching up):

****1/4
Eddie Edwards v. Jay Briscoe v. Kyle O'Reilly v. Mark Briscoe v. Michael Elgin v. Roderick Strong (Survival of the Fittest 2011)
Royal Rumble Match (Royal Rumble)
****
American Wolves v. All Night Express (Gateway to Honor)
Don Fuji and Shingo v. Daisuke Sekimoto and Masato Tanaka (Infinity 254)
No Remorse Corps v. Apolo 55 (Wrestlekingdom VI)
Naomichi Marufuji and Go Shiozaki v. Toru Yano and Shinsuke Nakamura (Wrestlekingdom VI)
PAC v. Akira Tozawa (Open the Golden Gate)


----------



## Pat9010

Those ROH shows happened in 2011


----------



## Concrete

I feel the Punk/Bryan match may be slightly overrated just because of who was in it but if people thought it was **** or up then cool. I personally thought it was closer to ***1/2-***3/4. A real good match but not what I would call a MOTYC.


----------



## ddog121

Pat9010 said:


> Those ROH shows happened in 2011


Yeah but those shows came out on DVD in 2012. My criteria is anything that is aired or released in 2012 is eligible for my MOTY list


----------



## seabs

*Bad Intentions & KUSHIDA vs Satoshi Kojima, Hiroyoshi Tenzan & Jushin Liger - NJPW 29.01.2012*
_Bad Intentions + Liger in trio matches is generally a reliable formula for a great match and this was no different. Total blast, fun and so easy to sit through. Liger's spot with Bernard is way too good when Bernard comes in. Not a legit MOTYC per se but a really great match that's tons of fun that people should watch._

****3/4+*


----------



## ATF

*Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett (No DQ, No Count Out Match) - WWE Smackdown 03.02.2012*
Raw had Punk/Bryan, and SD had this. So damn good in my view. A straight out brutal fight that served as the big payoff for the feud that left everyone happy. Tables, chairs, barricades, steps, announce tables (not very much, though), all have been used, and well, it was a damn nasty match. Some won't agree that this is on Punk/Bryan's level, but in my view, it was not very far. ****3/4*

Honorable mention to Sheamus vs. Cody Rhodes from Smackdown too. A short but well paced match. I might be overrating it, since I'm a mark for both, but I'd give it *****.


----------



## ywall2breakerj

*Go Shiozaki vs Takeshi Morishima*

A very good match that was semi-ruined by no selling and un-necessary sequences (thought the Lariat one was good). 

****3/4*


----------



## milkman7

Black Terry vs Chico Che - Hair vs Hair Match - IWRG 1/29/12

So far this year, Terry and Che have put on the best matches. This one isn't quite as good as their other brawl, but it definitely had its moments. Several really nasty weapon shots, overbooking that actually made the match better, and lots of blood.


----------



## Noah Mark

Nego Navarro vs Solar I-1/29/12 AULL. Even though this was short close to 5 minutes the matwork by both was excellent as usual. Navarro can really work the arms & legs like no one else. I would go with ***3/4.


----------



## Bubz

I was looking forward to Go/Shima but I haven't heard anything too good about it so far.


----------



## milkman7

Tatsumi Fujinami & Mitsuya Nagai vs Yoshiaki Fujiwara & Yushi Ishikawa - Legend The Pro-Wrestling 1/8/12

This was 11 minutes well spent. These guys just lay into each other for all 11 of it. Everybody in this match was extremely impressive. Everything Fujiwara did looked like a nasty, old bastard trying to either rip someone's arm off or slap/punch them out. Ishikawa has probably the best body punches in all of pro wrestling. Great match. Current MOTY for me.


----------



## RawIsWar1991

milkman7 said:


> Tatsumi Fujinami & Mitsuya Nagai vs Yoshiaki Fujiwara & Yushi Ishikawa - Legend The Pro-Wrestling 1/8/12
> 
> This was 11 minutes well spent. These guys just lay into each other for all 11 of of it. Everybody in this match was extremely impressive. Everything Fujiwara did looked like a nasty, old bastard trying to either rip someone's arm off or slap/punch them out. Ishikawa has probably the best body punches in all of pro wrestling. Great match. Current MOTY for me.


I must check that out. It seems like a great match.


----------



## Rickey

My Top 3 of the week.

3. Orton/Ziggler-1/30 Raw
2. Roode/Storm-2/2 Impact
1. Punk/Bryan-1/30 Raw


----------



## djmathers1207

Punk vs. Bryan ****
Orton vs. Barrett ***1/4-***3/4
Orton vs. Ziggler ***1/4
Royal Rumble Match- **** [lacked the star power, but still good]


----------



## Bubz

So has there been any serious MOTYC's lately? Because the last thing I have is stuff from the 3/1 AJPW show, and that seems like ages ago now.


----------



## Chismo

I have huge hopes for Nakajima/SHINGO and JIII/Blood Warriors 7on7 elimination match.


----------



## Zatiel

JoeRulz said:


> I have huge hopes for Nakajima/SHINGO


:shocked:

Wait, when, what, where? Gimme!


----------



## Chismo

Diamond Ring (evolved from Kenskay Office), happened today.


----------



## seabs

JoeRulz said:


> I have huge hopes for Nakajima/SHINGO and *JIII/Blood Warriors 7on7 elimination match*.


*Good luck hoping that match gets shown in full. Over 70 minutes and Infinity is only usually 50 minutes.

I pray to god they do a 2 hour show for it though because it's a huge match in their history and could be legit amazing if shown in full.*


----------



## Chismo

Sheeeeeit, I forgot about it. Full Gaora versions, do they exist?


----------



## Corey

Bubz said:


> So has there been any serious MOTYC's lately? Because the last thing I have is stuff from the 3/1 AJPW show, and that seems like ages ago now.


Nah mane. As far as stuff in the states goes (which is really all I watch), hasn't been anything over ***3/4 this year that I've seen.


----------



## seabs

*Yuji Nagata & Wataru Inoue vs Masayuki Kono & Minoru - AJPW 03.02.2012*
_Holy cow. Not sure how anyone could want more from an 11 minute match than this gave. Stems from Nagata destroying Funaki's face at Wrestle Kingdom and now his two boys are out for revenge on Nagata on his behalf. So heated throughout and I loved both Kono and Minoru going for Nagata from the get go and just ignoring Inoue because he's irrelevant. Crowd gets really into it and they manage to get a great heel/face dynamic going and the crowd really get behind Kono and Minoru and eventually give some heat to Nagata too. Kono does the running knee in the corner on Nagata and it's a beautiful spot after WK and then at the end Nagata does it himself on Minoru and his reaction to hitting it is the best thing ever and the crowd give him all the shit he warrants for it. Breaks down again post match when Kono attacks Nagata doing his wonderful dance of justice. Ridiculous heat and hot crowd and only 11 minutes. More or the less the perfect match for what I want from wrestling in 2012. Can't wait for Nagata/Kono now which took place today and seems every bit as wild looking at the result._

*****1/4*


----------



## antoniomare007

I'm really interested in that tag match and Akiyama/Omori (have no expectations for the AJ vs BJ tag).

Gotta wait a couple of weeks before I start catching up with 2012 puro but I hope there's some quality stuff.


----------



## seancarleton77

Seabs said:


> *Yuji Nagata & Wataru Inoue vs Masayuki Kono & Minoru - AJPW 03.02.2012*[/I]
> 
> *****1/4*


I'm with you Seabs, this match kicked some serious ass, hopefully Nagata vs. Kono continues as well as Minoru vs. anyone in NJPW.


----------



## MF83

Suzuki vs. Tanahashi and Punk vs. Bryan are still holding it down for me.


----------



## seabs

antoniomare007 said:


> I'm really interested in that tag match and Akiyama/Omori (have no expectations for the AJ vs BJ tag).
> 
> Gotta wait a couple of weeks before I start catching up with 2012 puro but I hope there's some quality stuff.


*The AJ/BJ tag was good but missable. Got great when Akebono came in but he was only in the last few minutes. Haven't watched Akiyama/Omori. Trying to cut down on spending time on matches like that which don't really interest me unless I've heard they were great.*


----------



## seancarleton77

I'd give Akiyama vs. Omori the nod at about ****, maybe higher. This was not your typical predictable match you could call from a mile away, which made it great.


----------



## seabs

*Daisuke Sekimoto, Yuji Okabayashi & Kazuki Hashimoto vs Akebono, Ryuto Hama & Yasufumi Nakanoue - BJW 02.02.2012*
_Another month and another great strong BJ tag. At least more than 3 people on this board are watching them now. Hashimoto is glorious in this and takes an awesome beating. Simple but effective forumula and it pays off. Babyface shine into the heels working over the least experience babyface into the hot finish._

*****1/4*

*SHINGO, YAMATO, Jimmy Susumu, Jimmy KAGETORA & Dragon Kid vs CIMA, Akira Tozawa, BxB Hulk, Genki Horiguchi & Ryo Saito - Dragon Gate 19.01.2012*
_Isn't quite as great as most of the big multi man tags they ran last year but it's still really damn good and has an incredible finish as always. You almost take for granted at times how crisp everything this current crop of Dragon Gate wrestlers do is and how nothing barely ever gets botched. Finish with Kong getting involved was wonderful._

******


----------



## Rickey

Aries vs. Shelley, TNA Against All Odds 2012

edit: Also enjoyed AJ vs. Kaz from the same show.


----------



## dukenukem3do

Aries vs. Shelley TNA AAO 2012 ****


----------



## djmathers1207

Shelley vs. Aries ****
Styles vs. Kaz ***1/4-***3/4


----------



## MF83

Tanahashi vs. Okada


----------



## dk4life

Alex Shelley vs. Austin Aries - Pretty good match, It kinda got to me how Shelly was selling his neck all match, but forgot about it in the last 5 minutes, besides that, good finish, and damn Double A is awesome


----------



## Bubz

Aries/Shelley was great fun. ****


----------



## topper1

Tanahashi vs Okada **** 1/4 some over selling by Okada imo his leg was barely worked over and he was selling it like death then 10 seconds later totally forgot about it around the time he hit the ddt going into the finish which didn't bug me all that much since like I said it was barely worked over still found it kinda funny. Nasty finishing move eat your heart out Hansen. Also haven't seen it pointed out yet but Tanahashi had at least 1 of his two front teeth knocked clean out in this match might have been both couldn't quite tell but it was pretty gross.

Aries vs Shelly ***3/4


----------



## Bubz

Can't wait to see the New Beginning matches, especially Tana/Okada, Nakamura/Naito and NRC/Apollo 55.

I'll be watching that 6 man BJ tag Seabs posted about on the last page tonight I think.


----------



## ywall2breakerj

*Austin Aries vs Alex Shelley-TNA AAO*

A really fun match, but I don't think it's ****. If it lasted a few minutes longer then maybe, but still a very enjoyable match.

****1/2*


----------



## KingCrash

Austin Aries vs. Alex Shelley - TNA Against All Odds - ***3/4

Very fun match and easily the best TNA's done in 2012. Very good selling by Shelley, Aries was the perfect heel and everyone bought the 1st brainbuster fall. That was probably the most awake the crowd was all night besides Jeff Hardy's emo teenage fans.


----------



## Bubz

*Yuji Nagata & Wataru Inoue vs Masayuki Kono & Minoru Tanaka(AJPW 03/02)*
What an awesome little match this was. I like this Nagata against AJPW storyline. Nagata was the man in this match. The armbar spot by Tanaka was the highlight for me, great stuff. ******

*NRC vs Apollo 55 - NJPW New Beggining*
This is probably my new favourite match between these two teams. Just great stuff here for about 20 minutes. Pretty much a sprint all the way but it worked and they played off some spots in their previous matches really well. I thought Davey looked great here and again he shows that he isn't terrible, he's actually really bloody good when he keeps his shit to a minimum and doesn't go overkill on everything. Maybe it's Romero keeping him in check or something, I don't know, but whatever it is I don't see why he can't transfer it over to his work in America . Anyway, the finishing stretch was awesome with some new moves from both teams and I dug the finish too. ******

Nakamura/Naito was good too but nothing MOTYC level. Nakamura has become my favourite guy to watch in Japan now. I really have a hard time liking Naito matches though, I can't quite put my finger on it.

I'll watch Tana/Okada later on.


----------



## Chismo

I re-watched few Open The Golden Gate matches, especially *PAC vs. Tozawa* (the live stream was broken), and now I can rate the match, finally. This is my MOTY so far, it was really incredible. Fantastic match with mind-blowing finishing stretch. Can't wait to see the rubber match, since they're 1-1 now. God damn, Tozawa is fucking awesome. The whole show was really outstanding, with 3 MOTYCs (Fox/Callihan, main event and PAC/Tozawa). You can't go wrong with DGUSA.
*Rating: ****1/2*

MOTYCs:

1. PAC vs. Akira Tozawa ****1/2
2. Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Minoru Suzuki ****1/4
3-6. Ronin vs. Super Smash Brothers ****
Sami Callihan vs. A.R. Fox ****
The Spiked Mohicans vs. Mochizuki & Susumu ****

I need to see The New Beginning.


----------



## topper1

Is Pac vs Tozawa online? anyone have a link if it is.


----------



## Chismo

I watched the PPV replay on WWNLive.


----------



## seabs

*Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada - NJPW 12.02.2012*
_Weaker than most of Tanahashi's title matches last year I'd say but Tana's awesome and more than gets a great match out of it. Okada simply isn't ready to be working matches at this level and putting him with Naito in a title match could be dreadful. Thankfully it's at K.Hall so the crowd will help them. Okada's solid but he's not main event level quality yet and he's really dull which only hurts him further. Tana's maybe the best main event worker going anywhere right now and he showed exactly why here. Okada's selling kinda killed part of the match. It was neither here nor there. One moment he wouldn't sell at all and then another he'd suddenly be overselling it. I fucking hate tombstone spots when they mean nothing too. He did a tombstone in the crowd on the floor and it was completely irrelevant really. Poor Tanahashi must have really fragile teeth these days. He lost one against Nakamura last year too. Finish stretch was awesome (Tana's the best main event worker going btw) and they never went past their peak either which helped them a ton. Would have been a legit MOTYC if Okada sold better and imposed himself on the match better. _

******


----------



## malek

Aries vs Shelley ***3/4

I wont hold my breath that TNA will do much better whole year.


----------



## Zatiel

Kenny Omega Vs. Hiroshi Yamato - AJPW Junior Heavyweight Title Match

Finally got around to watching this. While Omega's heel disrespect feels forced in contrast to the subtler stuff from the early 90's I've been watching lately, he's godly compared to most of his contemporaries today. Even messing around with his water bottle was amusing. He leads Yamato into the best one-sided match I've seen since Ricochet Vs. Castagnoli. Like that one from PWG, this excels based on pacing and having the aggressor diligently stick to varied offense. Yamato has a great fiery comeback, but as soon as that doesn't pay off it's obvious that he's screwed. It's largely Yamato doing a great job bumping for Omega's crazy offense. The finishing stretch makes Omega look like a world-killer. He's got so much high-end offense that even with Yamato's guts, Yamato can't last. My MOTY so far. Just a super-fun bout.


----------



## Chismo

*Katsuhiko Nakajima vs. SHINGO (D-Ring, 2/11/2012)*

And there you go, this is your first D-Ring main event. Awesome, kick-ass match, so easy to wacth. They went back-and-forth style mostly, but we got few control segments too. SHINGO is such a great powerhouse, but he has no chance against Jima's M-16 strikes, so he works his legs, but not for long enough to be efficient. Jima still strikes like a motherfucker. The finishing stretch was very exciting, SHINGO was on the verge of victory, but Jima used his strikes as a defense this time, and after few blows won the match with German Suplex Hold. Awesome, awesome match, they really stiffed the hell out of each other, the storytelling was very simple and nice. MOTYC, easily, and great showcase for D-Ring's first main event.
*Rating: ****1/4*


----------



## wildpegasus

JoeRulz said:


> *Katsuhiko Nakajima vs. SHINGO (D-Ring, 2/11/2012)*
> 
> And there you go, this is your first D-Ring main event. Awesome, kick-ass match, so easy to wacth. They went back-and-forth style mostly, but we got few control segments too. SHINGO is such a great powerhouse, but he has no chance against Jima's M-16 strikes, so he works his legs, but not for long enough to be efficient. Jima still strikes like a motherfucker. The finishing stretch was very exciting, SHINGO was on the verge of victory, but Jima used his strikes as a defense this time, and after few blows won the match with German Suplex Hold. Awesome, awesome match, they really stiffed the hell out of each other, the storytelling was very simple and nice. MOTYC, easily, and great showcase for D-Ring's first main event.
> *Rating: ****1/4*


 Yeah, I was just about to mention this match so everyone would make sure to check it out. I don't really care for analayzing matches too much anymore because it takes the fun out of wrestling (seen so many people sadly fall into this trap over time including myself to a degree somewhat) as I'd rather concentrate on the ring. action. wrestlers. what they're going through and escape into it so let's just say this was freaking awesome fun. Love. love. love Nakagima's kicks and work ethic. Awesome crowd and the TV production made everything feel even more alive.


----------



## Cactus

*
Austin Aries vs Alex Shelley 
TNA Against All Odds; 2012/02/12*

_Just barely a four star match, this was pretty good. Shelley's babyface role in this match felt forced and didn't really work for him until the finishing stretch. Aries was gold as usual. Aries working on Shelley's injured neck really put Shelley over as a good guy, as did Shelley's selling of the sick apron Death Valley Drop. The ending stretch was simply fantastic and it really had me rooting for Shelley and I'm a huge Austin Aries fan. It was back-and-forth and filled with spots, but they all had a strong meaning behind them. _

_*Rating: *****_


----------



## Bubz

*Katsuhiko Nakajima vs SHINGO (D-Ring 11/02)*
Awesome match. Nakajima worked Shingo's arm at first and he did a great job selling it. There was an apron spot quite early on in to the match, and at first I thought it was a bit early for a sick spot like that, but the way it played out worked great as it was a really good comeback spot for Shingo. Shingo worked the leg of Nakajima for a bit until he made his comeback which was transitioned really well. I loved the spot where Shingo keeps going for the lariat but Jima keeps kicking his arm away causing more damage to it, but Shingo is determined to hit it. Eventually he hits one with the other arm, it's less efffective because it's not his usual arm but it works because it catches Jima off guard after he runs the ropes. Loved that spot. The finishing stretch was awesome with a lot of near falls but it didn't seem like overkill at all. If Nakajima had sold his leg for a bit longer this would have been even better. It didn't really take much away though because nothing is going to stop Nakajima from throwing those kicks, and he did sell his leg the first few times until he knocks some sense back into it. Great match, my new MOTY just ahead of Sekimoto/Suwama. *****1/4 - 1/2*


Also watched the tag match...

*Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama vs Kensuke Sasaki & Mitsuhiro Kitamiya (D-Ring 11/02)*
I loved this. It had such a great story that was always going to be good, but when you have Akiyama and Kobashi in there to tell it, it's great. Kitamiya looked good here playing the underdog really well and getting owned by Akiyama especially. Akiyama was amazing in this match, he came off as such a boss. Akiyama/Kitamiya did most of the work since Kobashi can't do all that much these days, but we got Kobashi/Kenskay chop wars and some other cool moments that played off of their match in 2005. A great story and good action to boot. ****3/4 - *****


----------



## d3m1g0d

Sekimoto Daisuke -vs- Suwama (AJPW; 2012-01-02)

Sekimoto enters the match with taped ribs so Sumawa starts working at them right away,even taking the fight outside and throwing Daisuke into the guard rail.Sumawa puts Diasuke into the boston crab.Great selling from Sekimoto to get the crowd hot and behind him for his comeback.Finally the match ends with a sick powerbomb.The early big man vs big man spots were very well excecuted.**** 

Okada Kazuchika -vs- Tanahashi Hiroshi (NJPW; 2012-02-12)

What a great performance from Tanahashi.He tried to make the match as special as possible and to an extend he succeeded..Hiroshi took a few nasty bumps outside the ring.Okada was ok,pretty much any segment he was in control fell flat,selling his knee after doing the piledriver was smart but nobody payed attention.His offence should have been better and more versatile besides a few good dropkicks nothing special.Should be noted Tanahashi actually broke his tooth in the match.Finish was fine.What can we keep from this one?Tanahash is a star and had a great match while Okada needs work.Good luck to him interested to see how long he will actually keep the belt.**** 

Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama vs Kensuke Sasaki & Mitsuhiro Kitanomiya (D-Ring 11/02)

Just finished watching this.Really good stuff here.Akiyama toying with Mitsuhiro in the beginning was great.The established him as a sympathetic rookie.Even enjoyed the Kobashi/Kensuke sequences.****


----------



## Rah

*Okada Kazuchika -vs- Tanahashi Hiroshi (NJPW; 2012-02-12)*

WTF have I just watched? I went in expecting something good but not spectacular and what I got was something phenomenal. Holy **** did I ever get into this match and even added to that I realised myself to be chanting Okada on out loud towards the end which I didn't see happening at all.

I was thoroughly against Okada up until about 2/3 of the way through. He went through the motions well but he didn't add a dimension of character and emotion to them until this point. I expected cockiness to flow through his body language and, most importantly, his face but all I got was a limp corpse and a range of facial expressions that made Clive Owen seem animated. Towards the end, though, his cockiness finally came through when he saw his prize within reach and it almost made up for the lacking beforehand. Nice selling of the left knee throughout, too.

As for Tanahashi there aren't any words that can accurately describe the work he put into this match. I'm sure he (and most of NJPW staff) knew many wouldn't believe Okada to be anywhere near credible (I mean, he was Samoa Joe's perverted little camera man less than a year ago, ffs!) and because of it stepped into an extra gear in ensuring Okada's legitimacy and oh, boy, did it work. Him losing his tooth (as unfortunate as it was) just added that little cherry to the already sweet cake.

Like I said, I certainly didn't expect this but this match blew me away. After watching Blue Panther Vs ***** Casas, today, I was sure it would be my current MOTY but now - thanks to this match - that thought is null and void. Very, very highly recommended and even if you're not as much of a fan as I am the pseudo-finishers and final pin by Okada will more than make up for it.
*
Rating:* 4.25+

Will give it a bit more thought but the *Omega/Hayashi* match from *AJPW 03/02/2012* wasn't too bad, either.


----------



## Bubz

*Okada vs Tanahashi (NJPW New Beginning 12/02)*
I can only echo pretty much what has been said above and on the last few pages. Great match and it was a lot better than I expected. Like Rah said above, it wasn't until about 2/3 through the match I started thinking, wow, this is actually really good. Okada's control segment wasn't the best, I mean he threw a few elbows, dropkicks and a submission in there but it wasn't great, Tana then started making his comeback and the match got a lot better. Okadas selling of the leg was off, he would occasionaly grab it for a second and then completely forget about it which was kind of annoying, and he never sold anything like it was a hard fought match, the guy was constantly smiling. Again, annoying. Tanahashi was seriously great in this match though, his selling and his comebacks were all really well done. The finishing stretch was really great. ******


----------



## Noah Mark

One from WWC:

Lynx/Niche/Johnny Ringo vs Maximos/Mr Big-1/21/12. This was a really good match. Maximos really havent lost a step in my opinion and still do a mean spanish fly. Lynx/Niche do some nice high spots early in the match. ****


----------



## antoniomare007

yeah, Okada is not there yet but at least it was good to see that his US trip didn't kill all the potential he showed in 09'. His situation kinda reminds me of Nakamura, who also got a huge push way too early and it took him years to completely "get it".

gotta lot of puro to catch up with, good shit.


----------



## Concrete

*Katsuhiko Nakajima vs. SHINGO (D-Ring 2/11-12): ****1/4*
This is the kind of match that you want to have as your main event for your first show. Amazing action. I really enjoyed the fact that you could watch this match and have no idea who Nakajima and SHINGO were and you could make complete sense out of everything. Starts off with violent kicks by Jima. So what does SHINGO do, works the leg just long enough to faze Jima but not long enough to have any lasting effect.Then there is the spot where SHINGO wants to murder Jima with a lariat so what does Nakajima do, kicks the shit out of the arm everytime SHINGO wants to do it. This match had high expectations and these guys fully met them. Never a dull moment in my eyes. D-Ring is Nakajima's company to reign over and it will be interesting to see how they top this match.


----------



## Rickey

WWE Elimination Chamber 2012

Raw Elimination Chamber and the second half of the Smackdown Elimination Chamber.


----------



## KingCrash

The first half of the Raw Elimination Chamber and the final part of the Smackdown Chamber were good but they couldn't recover from their other halves. And the Kane/Cena match ended much like the entire feud; awkward, illogical & horrendous.


----------



## TelkEvolon

Elimination Chamber was weird.

That's all.


----------



## Bubz

Yeah the RAW chamber was going great until the Jericho angle and Miz/Punk seemed really off as the last 2 guys. There was some great spots in the match, Kofi bumped like crazy and Jericho destroying Punk with the chamber door looked fucking brutal.

When Bryan got into the SD chamber it really did get good but the first half was so fucking dull. Trust Bryan Danielson to turn shit into gold. What a man.


----------



## Ali Dia

RAW chamber: ***1/4-***1/2
Smackdown chamber: ***

Probably the worst Elimination Chamber ppv which is disappointing as traditionally it's one of my favorite shows


----------



## Concrete

Now I wasn't expecting a MOTYC out of Elimination Chamber but I was thoroughly upset when it seemed the Raw Chamber had a real shot of getting there. The interaction between Jericho and Punk was great and Kofi was doing his job as the bump machine. Then the thing with Jericho happened and everything stalled and the ending with Punk and Miz was average. The Smackdown Chamber was average. There wasn't a plethora of top talent in there. There was a chance of kicking it into next gear when Danielson coming in but with him being a heel there was only 2 people who could have ended the match with and neither one was going to be an option anyone cared about. 
Raw Chamber: ***1/4
Smackdown Chamber: **3/4


----------



## Ali Dia

I know it's all opinional but I just wouldn't be able to understand how anyone could consider either chamber anywhere near 4 stars. Maybe it's just that the chamber matches are pretty much my favorite gimmick match and they were such let downs this year, not necessarily based on talent as they were never strong in that regard but you always just expect something pretty awesome from them. Wasn't the case this year unfortunately.


----------



## Concrete

I don't think anyone is going to rate these matches near ****. They just weren't that good. They had some moments but nothing more.


----------



## Rah

I've seen the Raw EC rated **** with the same guy loving the hell out of Jericho's "complete dick heel" antics. That was match of the night, though, with the Smackdown EC being 3.75.

I wouldn't say he's that "misguided" as someone might claim to those ratings as I often used to find his tastes coinciding with min. Trouble is, though, that I've started taking his work with a pinch of salt, now, due to differences exactly like this.


----------



## Concrete

*Devitt&Taguchi vs Richards&Romero(2/12/12):***3/4*
This was quite the match if I do say so. I enjoyed the hell out of it.Two of the best Jr. Teams around will almost always produce something really good and this was no exception. It is weird to see that in Japan Davey is just another Junior and isn't expected to be King of the World like he is treated in ROH. Why Romero doesn't wrestle in ROH I don't know. He seems like a guy ROH could really use at a time like now. Not quite a MOTYC but worth mentioning. This isn't going to end up on my list by the end of the year but I'll still consider it a fun and worthwhile match.
*Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada(2/12/12):*****
Another great match from New Beginnings. Tanahashi is something else and just needs a decent wrestler to put on a great match. I don't know if Okada will be able to come close to the high standards Tanahashi set with the belt. This match felt big the entire time especially once Tanahashi got tombstoned on the outside. Just makes being a MOTYC for me but a MOTYC none the less for me.


----------



## KingKicks

KingCrash said:


> The first half of the Raw Elimination Chamber and the final part of the Smackdown Chamber were good but they couldn't recover from their other halves.


Couldn't agree more. The SD chamber was incredibly dull until Show broke into Bryan's chamber then it was constant fun onwards, where as the Raw chamber was going great until Kofi went out, then the rest felt a little weak.

Props to WWE on somehow getting me in to Santino being in the chamber...never thought that would be possible.


----------



## Bubz

*Go Shiozaki vs Takeshi Morishima (NOAH 22/01)*
I hadn't read a great deal about this and I definitely didn't hear anyone praising it much, so I was seriously surprised when I saw what I would consider a strong MOTYC. I loved Go getting frustrated and going after Mori's injured head, and the nearfalls were really good in the finishing stretch, I don't think anyone expected Morishima to kick out of the Go Flasher. I knew the result but still got pretty drawn in despite the dead crowd. The finish was awesome and thankfully didn't go into extreme overkill mode like a few of NOAH's recent heavyweight matches. The spot leading up to Morishima finally hitting the lariat was ace. I think I remember hearing something about there being too many lariats, but I didn't think that was the case, and I think it worked in getting Mori's lariat over as more powerful than Go's when he finally hit it. Some of the shots from Go were sick and intentional or not it made it seem like a big deal with how stiff a few of them were. Morishima is clearly more over than Go so it was probably a good decision even though I was liking pretty much all of Go's title defences. I really dug this match even if it did take a while to get going and imo it felt like a big time match even though the crowd was shit. *****1/4*

It appears I'm in the minority but this is up there as a contender for best match of the year for me.


----------



## Chismo

People who are bitching about Shima's lariats, they're lucky Jumbo is dead so he can't hear them.


----------



## Concrete

*Suwama vs. Daisuke Sekimoto(AJPW 01/02/12):****1/4*
Daisuke Sekimoto really wants to be a front runner for WOTY doesn't he? Now, I don't know a lot about Suwama but I kept seeing his name in the MOTYC thread last year so I'm going to assume he kicks ass. The match definitely helped prove that. Suwama looks so big next to Daisuke but he learns pretty quick that he may not have a power advantage so he kills Daisuke's midsection which is bandaged.They worked such a good match and made Sekimoto's comebacks feel important which is always good. I don't really know how to describe it but these guys just had a weight about them. Where Nakajima vs. SHINGO is to Dragon Ball Z, Suwama vs. Sekimoto is to Transformers, if that makes any sense at all. If you don't get what I am saying then let me just say this match is awesome and you probably should watch it.


----------



## Rickey

Though it eventually ended up being more about the GM's-Punk vs. Bryan, Smackdown 21, 2012. 

Not as good as the Raw match but like I said the match wasn'treally about them as much as it was about getting the gm storyline across.


----------



## antoniomare007

I hate it when we are watching a great match and we have to put up with commercial breaks, and in this case there were TWO . I had no problem with the overbooking because it made sense but even if it made sense it took away from the quality of the match imo.

Still, it's blatantly clear that if they give this two at least 20 minutes on PPV they are gonna put on a classic.


----------



## Bubz

*Punk vs Bryan (WWE Super Smackdown 21/02)*
Well, that was fucking awesome to watch. Overbooked? Yeah completely, but incredibly entertaining. The match itself was an absolute clinic, and what would you expect from these two. Bryan is still the best wrestler in the world and he showed exactly why here, working on Punk's arm in relentless style, something Dragon obviously learned from Regal and it was so great to see something like that in the current WWE product. Punk then does an amazing sell job, similar to the way Ambrose sold his arm against Regal last year, or the way Rollins sold it against Ambrose, constantly holding it or having it by his side and switching arms on moves etc. There was a spot where they did a series of reversals and Punk ended up going for his spinning neckbreaker but couldn't do it because of his arm and he constantly sold it until after the match. Awesome. The two false finishes didn't even bother me, well the first one did since the match was too short, but it really played up to Bryans character and once they restarted it I figured there might be something else screwy leading to the other guy getting the victory. The ending was a perfect way to end the match imo, neither of these guys should be losing matches, and especially against eachother the only way is a draw, and the way they did it was great and both of them looked strong. I can see some people being put off by the overbooking, but it honestly didn't bother me because the wrestling was amazing. Great storytelling and action, Bryan showed why he's the best, and Punk showed why he's up there too. Loved every minute of it and maybe it's the fact that these two are 'our guys' still I don't know, but I haven't had that much fun watching wrestling since god knows when.

It's hard to put a rating on this because of what happened with the various finishes, but the story in the ring deserves ****** at least. I'll have to watch it again knowing whats going to happen and see if that affects my enjoyment or not.


----------



## Rickey

Seeing the two matches from them this year, makes me want to see them go against each other at WrestleMania 28. I'd be more excited for it than I am for Punk/Jericho and Bryan/Shaemus combined.


----------



## lewieG

Surely Punk vs Bryan will happen full-on at some point in the near future. Hopefully it's the big feud of the US Summer, where it can be the focus of the shows, rather than being overshadowed by Rock/Cena and HHH/Taker.


----------



## KingKicks

Haven't given a rating to Punk/Bryan yet but it's the most I've enjoyed a match in a good bloody while. Excellent selling of the arm by Punk throughout the match (and even during the aftermath).


----------



## Rah

If only WWE Bragging Rights was still on the cards. That would have been the perfect excuse for these two to go balls to the wall.


----------



## Concrete

*La Sombra vs. Volador Jr.(01/22/12):*****
Now this another one of those matches where I didn't know if I wanted to go up to **** but I did. This match had problems. There were some moments where they looked like they weren't exactly sure where was the next step. There were also a lot of spots that looked blatantly set up. That being said this match was full of great action and I couldn't say no to this match even though I picked these apart in my head. I don't watch a lot of lucha so maybe that's why it came off so well to me but some of the stuff they were doing was simply awesome. An extremely athletic contest. I might be overrating this match but it won't end up in my top ten by the end of the year so it isn't really that big of a deal.


----------



## antoniomare007

*Sekimoto/Okabayashi & Hashimoto vs Akebono/Hama & Nakanoue - BJW 02.02.2012*

Oh Strong BJ, you have no idea how much I've missed you


----------



## asdf0501

*Tajiri vs Finlay - Smash 19/02/12*

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xowlq3_ta...lay-smash_sport

Great match, The facial expressions of both are the fucking best. This is probably the best Tajiri performance in god know how many time, he go toe to toe with Finlay on the mat and constantly try to kick the fuck out of him. Finlay is great at the selling of the leg and at being a fucking prick. Then are 2 or 3 great nearfalls and desperations spots for both men.

MOTYC for sure


----------



## antoniomare007

thanks for the link man! And damn...dailymotion has all the matches I was looking for in youtube, lol.

Tajiri vs Finlay was awesome. Finlay is so fucking great at the little thing that is impossible not to be compelled with what he is doing. Tajiri did a great job as the underdog too. The crowd was too respectful for my liking (they kinda showed up in final minutes though) but the in ring action and antics made up for the lack of heat imo.

*
Daisuke Sekimoto/Kazuki Hashimoto/Masashi Otani vs Daichi Hashimoto/Ryouji Sai/Shito Ueda - ZERO1 1.02.2012*

So 5 seconds in and you already know there's gonna be some interpromotional hatred thanks to Daichi (that kid just gets it, only a catastrophe is gonna prevent him from being a star in a couple of years) so of course we are gonna get some HASHIMOTO ON HASHIMOTO VIOLENCE~!(speaking of kids that get it...if you are not a fun of Kazuki, shame on you, SHAME.ON.YOU!). Too bad this was clipped and that Otani didn't have a good showing, but fuck, I still had a ton of fun watching this.

***1/2-***3/4


----------



## Killswitch Stunner

I loved the Punk/Bryan match on Raw, best match I've seen this year so far.


----------



## IAmLegend12.21.12

Austin Aries Vs Alex Shelley - TNA Against All Odds PPV - Feb.12.2012


----------



## Rah

enlightenedone9 said:


> *La Sombra vs. Volador Jr.(01/22/12):*****
> Now this another one of those matches where I didn't know if I wanted to go up to **** but I did. This match had problems. There were some moments where they looked like they weren't exactly sure where was the next step. There were also a lot of spots that looked blatantly set up. That being said this match was full of great action and I couldn't say no to this match even though I picked these apart in my head. I don't watch a lot of lucha so maybe that's why it came off so well to me but some of the stuff they were doing was simply awesome. An extremely athletic contest. I might be overrating this match but it won't end up in my top ten by the end of the year so it isn't really that big of a deal.


Good match, but it just felt disjointed and almost like they were wrestling at too fast a pace for them to process future structures/spots. Sombra ended up doing the same move three times, and that hurt the match for me. I don't mind if it's within context (Shingo's repeat lariat attempts that Nakajima kept kicking the life out of) or if it's repeatedly blocked and, within peril, the move finally works later on in the match. This time, however, it was nothing more than Sombra succeeding in hitting a move for what seemed like filler as he didn't know what else to do against Volador.

*Rating:* 3.75
I love how Sombra and Volador basically just swapped ownership of the NWA World Middleweight and CMLL World Welterweight titles, though. Panico, y u so strange booker?

*
La Máscara Vs Volador Jr. (CMLL Guadalajara: 2012-02-18)*
I possibly would have liked this more if I hadn't seen Sombra/Casas straight before it. That match was more complete for me, and just made this feel like an athletic competition where two phenomenal young talents just went out there and hammered in some great spots for the sake of crowd reaction.

That's not to say it didn't have anything redeeming, I just expected much more from these guys. Hell, Bestia 666/Super Nova had a very good athletic start to their match in PDM at the end of January and they suck (and so did their match as a whole, btw). Great spots cannot do it for me if that's all there is to it. While this match had a greater depth than that PDM match, I still didn't like it to the point of it going four stars for me. 3.5, I suppose, but if I was to give that rating to any match it would have to be Casas/Sombra - a match I recommend anyone to go out their way and watch. 

The ring-post powerbomb and final spot were great, though, despite the truly annoying las repeticiones. Three replays for a simple leg takedown?! :no:

*Rating:* 3.5

*La Sombra vs ***** Casas * (CMLL Puebla: 2012-02-20)
:mark: at how good ***** Casas looks at 52 years of age.
*Rating:* ****

Totally cannot wait for the Casas/Panther lucha de apuesta match this Saturday.


----------



## Rah

asdf0501 said:


> *Tajiri vs Finlay - Smash 19/02/12*
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xowlq3_ta...lay-smash_sport
> 
> Great match, The facial expressions of both are the fucking best. This is probably the best Tajiri performance in god know how many time, he go toe to toe with Finlay on the mat and constantly try to kick the fuck out of him. Finlay is great at the selling of the leg and at being a fucking prick. Then are 2 or 3 great nearfalls and desperations spots for both men.
> 
> MOTYC for sure


Sweet Jeez this was good.

With Smash closing it's doors next month and the title being vacated immediately after the title match, Tajiri knew this was his final attempt at claiming the gold and, boy, did he sell that. 

His introduction was met with hesitance yet determined focus (as opposed to Finlay's cocky personality) on the prize that lay around Finlay's waist - this was to be his proving ground, and he knew it. I love how that showed in Tajiri's approach to the match, too. He could have gone in blazing with his strikes and kicks but he took the more grounded approach and met Finlay on a mat level - in an attempt to prove that he's just as well rounded as the Irish vet and could beat him in any game the champion would throw at him.

Some may be hesitant in watching "older" workers but it's because of their lengthy careers in the ring that allow for even the slightest of subtleties to pop up and just add that much more to the match. With Finlay's face turning a shocking purple colour when Tajiri had him in a strangle-hold (meeting him back against the post until his knuckles went Sheamus white and someone at ringside had to pull him off) and Finlay's nuances in selling the leg damage he took from Tajiri's strikes by rubbing his leg down during leg submission/rest-holds helped solidify this match as the first(?) iconic meeting of two well-respected imports (in the American industry, anyway).

The added touch of the shillelagh really helped the progression of Tajiri's determination, imo. In both mat and strike-work neither man could come up trumps and no matter what Finlay tried Tajiri's determination would simply not quit - even after a vicious shot from the shillelagh. Tajiri's body did, however - succumbing to a tombstone piledriver that placed the final exclamation mark on their epic encounter. No matter how much Tajiri tried to fight the move off , like a pig at the slaughter, he knew the ending was in sight and accepted his fate in defeat. 

If you're to watch this, _do NOT skip the post-match theatrics_ - they truly add an even greater depth to the match. Finlay pleading for Tajiri to stand up so he can shake his hand with Tajiri's lifeless body sprawled across the blood-stained mat is one of the more beautiful moments in wrestling. Aside from the feel good moment of Finlay thanking all those who kept Smash going, and promising that he will always be willingly available if Tajiri ever needs him, again, the final moments truly and iconically cemented Smash's ending. 

Tajiri - staring at Finlay as he left the arena, with tears beginning to appear as he caught sight of the title - fell onto his hands and knees, overcome with emotion, and began to openly weep in the centre of the ring, just below the company's logo. This should have ended their last show. Absolutely beautiful.







Finlay: "you've got to start from the beginning again, but listen to me, _keep wrestling classic!_" and that's exactly what these two did...

*Rating:* too awesome for one (a ****1/4 for the in-ring work, if I was forced to give one, though)


----------



## Bubz

I don't know if I can add anything to what Rah said, but Finlay/Tajiri was bloody awesome. The mat wrestling was godly from both men, and Tajiri going after the leg at the start was the perfect way for his comeback to work later on in the match after Finlay bossed him around for a while. He went back to the leg and Finlay sold it like the champ that he is. Tajiri's kicks looked amazing, and the way Finlay sold them only added to it. Great nearfall with the shillelagh (if thats how you spell it) and I didn't know the result so I thought that was it right there. Some of Finlays counters were immense like the kick into the spinebuster. This was definitely his best match since he started wrestling the indys and Japan imo by quite a margin. Like was said above, Tajiri NEEDED to win this match and he played the part so well, especially with the intensity on his face at the start and the stuggle to get out of the tombstone at all costs was amazing. The after match stuff was genuinely quite emotional indeed. Great match with a great story with two great performances. Probably my MOTY to this point. *****1/4*


----------



## sonny james

I just found this thread, believe it or not. Very, very informative. I like it a lot and have watched 2 matches from it. Morishima vs Shiozaki, and the above mentioned Tajiri/Finlay match. I'm not sure of the protocol here, and it was a tv match, but I have to think that Jay Lethal/Davey Richards was at least a decent candidate off of a tv show. I have been trying to grasp how the ratings work, and for that match, i'd have to give it at least a *** 3/4. The brawl at the end took away from the match a bit, but with Tomasso Ciampa just sitting there concentrating on the match while a huge brawl went on all around him was a good touch. He just concentrated on Lethal due to the upcoming title match. As I say, I'm new to this thread, but I have to say that match is an early candidate.
Lethal/Richards ***3/4.


----------



## Rickey

*Tajiri vs Dave Finlay-SMASH-02/19/12*

_"Tajiri stand up, stand up Tariji."_

What a great piece of storytelling. This is pro wrestling. It's not just the in ring work which was great btw. It was...if I were to describe the entire match and post promo, I'd say "It was sort of like a movie."

Finlay's final words left Tajiri in a heap of emotion. Great ending, to a promotion that I hope returns in some entity. 

_"It's all starting new, you gotta start from the beginning again..."_

edit: This final part..well I just liked how it looked. During the introductions of each man streamers were thrown, Tariji the man fighting for the championship in the last match the title would be defended was COVERED in streamers. The champion Finlay had streamers thrown at him too, but not a single one touched him! I loved how that looked, the streamers just fell down around him. He just walked through them! Also did anyone mention how even the ref was going for Tariji and made it completely obvious(not a flaw) that he wanted Tajiri to take home the belt!? Great touch.


----------



## Rah

sonny james said:


> I just found this thread, believe it or not. Very, very informative. I like it a lot and have watched 2 matches from it. Morishima vs Shiozaki, and the above mentioned Tajiri/Finlay match. I'm not sure of the protocol here, and it was a tv match, but I have to think that Jay Lethal/Davey Richards was at least a decent candidate off of a tv show. I have been trying to grasp how the ratings work, and for that match, i'd have to give it at least a *** 3/4. The brawl at the end took away from the match a bit, but with Tomasso Ciampa just sitting there concentrating on the match while a huge brawl went on all around him was a good touch. He just concentrated on Lethal due to the upcoming title match. As I say, I'm new to this thread, but I have to say that match is an early candidate.
> Lethal/Richards ***3/4.


I'm relatively knew to this thread concept, too - having only come in towards the end of 2011, I believe. 

Just from what I've learnt is that you're going to have moments where you're going to look at something and wonder why you rated it in a certain way when a newer match was heaps better and you're going to have to give it a similar rating. Reflection is always key, and continually evaluating your previously rated matches as you go along will help keep a Match of the Year list as close to your ever changing standards as possible. Like myself, for instance, I had to readjust my entire list the other week when I realised I was being too lenient with my ratings (and knocked about .25 to .5 stars off all my ratings).

I'm not sure how many matches you've watched or how great your background is in different promotions (both American Indy and International), so forgive me if I seem to make you out to be new to this, but I'm very, very new to this, as well. Accurate reflection only comes from a greater depth in match-viewing where you've watched "the classics" and can then compare and contrast newer matches with what the benchmark actually is and it's there that quite a few posters in this thread work from. It's also why my ratings are probably a lot more liberal than them, as well. That's not to say, though, that you should change your ratings to reflect theirs (where is the fun in that? ) but just to also see where you differ to them and to, perhaps, spark debate on why you found it good/bad and they didn't.

Other than that, welcome. Don't be too overwhelmed with the amount of matches that will pop-up over the course of the year, but do try and use the nominations as a basis of what to actively look for in the hopes of watching - especially the Japanese matches. 2011 was an amazing year for me, quality-wise, and it's because of threads like these that help sift through the dirt and reveal the golden nuggets that would have slipped under your radar otherwise.



Rickey said:


> edit: This final part..well I just liked how it looked. During the introductions of each man streamers were thrown, Tariji the man fighting for the championship in the last match the title would be defended was COVERED in streamers. The champion Finlay had streamers thrown at him too, but not a single one touched him! I loved how that looked, the streamers just fell down around him. He just walked through them! Also did anyone mention how even the ref was going for Tariji and made it completely obvious(not a flaw) that he wanted Tajiri to take home the belt!? Great touch.


I'm not sure if it's a standard concept from SMASH but what was probably the greatest of the little touches was the playing of the anthems before the commencement of the match and Tajiri praying for the strength to pull out the victory. 

It's always the little things that play the biggest role in creating a great atmosphere and, in turn, a great match, if you ask me.



Bubz said:


> shillelagh (if thats how you spell it)


I had to look the spelling up just to double check, too. It looks weird, but it's right.


----------



## Rickey

Ah yes the anthems were a great touch also, I've watched some of the women's matches from SMASH it doesn't happen there. So the decision to do it in the main event was an excellent idea that played into the story.


----------



## darkclaudio

All Together 19/02/2012

1. Great Sasuke , Tiger Mask , Ryusuke Taguchi & Taiji Ishimori vs Jado , Gedo , Kenou & Taro Nohashi ***
2. Hiroyoshi Tenzan , Satoshi Kojima & Kentaro Shiga vs Captain NOAH (Mohammed Yone) , Captain All Japan (Ryota Hama) & Captain New Japan **
3. Yoshinobu Kanamaru , Kaz Hayashi , Shuji Kondo & Katsuhiko Nakajima vs Jushin Thunder Liger, Kotaro Suzuki , Minoru Tanaka & KAI ***3/4
4. Takashi Sugiura & Yujiro Takahashi vs Togi Makabe & Manabu Soya ***
5. Yuji Nagata, Kensuke Sasaki, Akebono & Naomichi Marufuji vs Minoru Suzuki, Yoshihiro Takayama, Masayuki Kono & Taichi ***
6. Hirooki Goto , Akitoshi Saito & Jinsei Shinzaki vs Shinsuke Nakamura , Toru Yano & Takashi Iizuka ***1/4
7. Kenta Kobashi & Keiji Muto vs Jun Akiyama & Takao Omori ***1/2
8. Hiroshi Tanahashi , Takeshi Morishima & Suwama vs Go Shiozaki , Tetsuya Naito & Seiya Sanada ****

WWE:
WWE Championship: Raw Elimination Chamber: CM Punk vs Kofi Kingston vs Chris Jericho vs Dolph Ziggler vs The Miz vs R-Truth ***1/4 19/02/2012
World Heavyweight Championship: Smackdown Elimination Chamber: Daniel Bryan vs Santino Marella vs Cody Rhodes vs Wade Barrett vs Big Show vs The Great Khali ***1/2 19/02/2012

TNA:
X-Division Championship: Austin Aries vs Alex Shelley ***1/4 12/02/2012
Kazarian vs AJ Styles *** 12/02/2012

AJPW
Yuji Nagata & Wataru Inoue vs Masayuki Kono & Minoru Tanaka *** 3/02/2012
Keiji Muto, Akebono & Ryota Hama vs Daisuke Sekimoto , Yoshihito Sasaki & Yuji Okabayashi ***1/4 3/02/2012
AJPW Jr Heavyweight Championship: Kenny Omega vs Kaz Hayashi **** 3/02/2012
AJPW Triple Crown: Jun Akiyama vs Takao Omori ****1/4 3/02/2012

DRAGON GATE
Blood WARRIORS vs. JUNCTION THREE Losing Unit Disbands Yoshida-Style Elimination Match: Akira Tozawa, BxB Hulk, Naruki Doi, Cyber Kong, Yasushi Kanda Kzy & Fake Naoki Tanizaki vs Masaaki Mochizuki, Masato Yoshino, Shingo Takagi, YAMATO, Dragon Kid, Jimmy Susumu & Rich Swann ****1/4 9/02/2012


----------



## Bubz

C&P from the Puro thread...

*NOAH - The Navigation in February 2012

Nakajima vs Ishimori*
I always say this about Nakajima, but I'll say it again here, he knows how to do a limb workover really well, and then use it to constantly gain the advantage later in the match. He did it here amazingly well, but ishimori's selling was quite bad throughout which took away from the great job Nakajima was doing. He sometimes would hold his leg for a second, but then was running around like a crazy person and hitting all his offense which pretty much all invovled using his knees or feet, hitting all his usual stuff like kicks, knees, lungblowers, dropkicks etc which annoyed me a bit. But that's the negative stuff out the way. Nakajima was awesome here, like I said working over the leg and then when Ishimori made his comebacks he would always go back to the leg to get the advantage back. The sequence leading to the finsih was awesome stuff and the nearfall off the 450 was great. So there was a few things that nagged me mostly to do with Ishimoris selling, but the good stuff far outweighed the bad, a lot like Nakajima/Marvin from last year, but I thought this was better.* *****

Nakajima is so good imo, he's easily my favourite Junior in Japan. To me, he's like if some scientist took Davey Richards and extracted all the shit and injected some wrestling logic into his brain. If you put him in the ring with someone who can sell (like SHINGO) you will pretty much be guaranteed a MOTYC.


----------



## Chismo

Yeah, Nakajima is absolutely awesome, and the best part - he's only 23-24 years old! And it seems like he's wrestling since 80s. Plus, he's already 95kg billed, so it's obviously he's going into the Heavyweight division in few years, plus he can work any style pretty damn well. And the most important thing is that he's a very smart and strategic wrestler, you can always recognize his tactic(s) in matches.

And yeah, he's by far the best Junior in Japan, he needs to keep that GHC Jr. Hewiki at least until September-October.


----------



## Bubz

Yeah I think anyone else with the belt will be very dissapointing and he needs a long reign with it. Like you said he's only going to improve, and he's already improved a ton since '08.


----------



## asdf0501

JoeRulz said:


> *And yeah, he's by far the best Junior in Japan*, he needs to keep that GHC Jr. Hewiki at least until September-October.


Naaaahhhh

He is not in Hayato, Riu or Kenou Level


----------



## Bubz

From what I've seen I think he's better than Hayato, but I haven't seen much of the other two at all.


----------



## sonny james

Rah said:


> I'm relatively knew to this thread concept, too - having only come in towards the end of 2011, I believe.
> 
> Just from what I've learnt is that you're going to have moments where you're going to look at something and wonder why you rated it in a certain way when a newer match was heaps better and you're going to have to give it a similar rating. Reflection is always key, and continually evaluating your previously rated matches as you go along will help keep a Match of the Year list as close to your ever changing standards as possible. Like myself, for instance, I had to readjust my entire list the other week when I realised I was being too lenient with my ratings (and knocked about .25 to .5 stars off all my ratings).
> 
> I'm not sure how many matches you've watched or how great your background is in different promotions (both American Indy and International), so forgive me if I seem to make you out to be new to this, but I'm very, very new to this, as well. Accurate reflection only comes from a greater depth in match-viewing where you've watched "the classics" and can then compare and contrast newer matches with what the benchmark actually is and it's there that quite a few posters in this thread work from. It's also why my ratings are probably a lot more liberal than them, as well. That's not to say, though, that you should change your ratings to reflect theirs (where is the fun in that? ) but just to also see where you differ to them and to, perhaps, spark debate on why you found it good/bad and they didn't.
> 
> Other than that, welcome. Don't be too overwhelmed with the amount of matches that will pop-up over the course of the year, but do try and use the nominations as a basis of what to actively look for in the hopes of watching - especially the Japanese matches. 2011 was an amazing year for me, quality-wise, and it's because of threads like these that help sift through the dirt and reveal the golden nuggets that would have slipped under your radar otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if it's a standard concept from SMASH but what was probably the greatest of the little touches was the playing of the anthems before the commencement of the match and Tajiri praying for the strength to pull out the victory.
> 
> It's always the little things that play the biggest role in creating a great atmosphere and, in turn, a great match, if you ask me.
> 
> 
> 
> I had to look the spelling up just to double check, too. It looks weird, but it's right.




Thanks for the insight. As for me, i've been a fan for over 30 years now. Grew up watching Stampede Wrestling. So as a base, I think I have it covered! Definitely have a lot to learn about wrestling from Japan, although I have watched a lot of Misawa, Kobashi, etc.. Also a huge fan of Tanahashi and Shiozaki. This is the place to be though, from the looks of it! Going to enjoy this thread, and this year.


----------



## seabs

*Hayato isn't all that good at working matches over 10 minutes. Nakajima isn't that good unless he's got the right opponent these days either but I'd still say he's up there as the best. Not THE best though. That'd be either Ibushi, Marvin or Yamato. I guess you could say half the DG roster are better juniors too if you want to include them.*


----------



## Bubz

Hadn't thought about the DG guys actually, I never really count them for some reason. Yeah Ibushi is great too, I prefer Nakajimas style though. Yamato as in the AJPW guy? I haven't seen anything bar the Omega match earlier this year to be honest.


----------



## asdf0501

Seabs said:


> *Hayato isn't all that good at working matches over 10 minutes. Nakajima isn't that good unless he's got the right opponent these days either but I'd still say he's up there as the best. Not THE best though. That'd be either Ibushi, Marvin or Yamato. I guess you could say half the DG roster are better juniors too if you want to include them.*



I don't think so.

Hayato can have great matches over the ten minutes mark and examples of that are his matches with yoshitsune, Sasuke and Kenou. Also can be a great dick heel like his Kowloon work prove it but at the same time can be a incredible underdog like in his matches with Kenou. And Finally His offense, expressions and selling are great

Any Junior in Japan today will have problems working over 10 minutes, outside FUTEN or Michinoku-Pro, because they try so hard to have this "epics" and much of the early work in the matches seems filler, and then we have this awful exchanges sections that seems obligatory when 90% of the juniors have awful strikes, kicks and clothslines. Nakajima has been bulking good and is one of the few that i can say has good offense but can't lead a match even if his life depend of that, generally blows the early work and have this awful and obligatory exchanges also.


----------



## seabs

*Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yuji Okabayashi - BJW 26.02.2012*
_I was nervous that this wouldn't be great but damn me for ever doubting these two in BJW because they NEVER fail to deliver these days. I was expecting more of a early 90's Steiners bomb fest from them but it was far from being that but they still made it work in their own unique way. They take a while to really get going but the feeling out process is really good and it works that start off slower with the partner vs partner deal and not wanting to make a mistake against the other because they no they can get punished for it. Yuji is amazing yet again and I promise you come 2012 he'll be rule of the entire world. He really brings to Daisuke and the crowd go nuts for him which was wonderful. Eventually towards the end it breaks down into more of a heavyweight style bomb fest but in a good way because once they bust out the heavy artillery you know the finish is coming soon because nobody can take their bombs for long. I do wish wrestlers wouldn't headbutt each other really hard but if it's gonna happen then this was the match to do it in because it was a great strong man match. They went about in a slightly different way to Sugiura/Sasaki last year but with an equally great outcome at the end of it. I love matches where the lower guys gets put over huge but they still keep the hierarchy in tact with the higher guy on the card being pushed to the limit but still claiming the victory. Loads of great near falls on Daisuke. At the risk of sound like a bit of a hypocrite I kinda wished they'd done a kickout or two more with Yuji to get over his fire but far better to be wanting more than doing too many. Got the feeling from the result they might do this match again in the Final with Yuji going over. That or they'll do Sasaki vs Shinobu in the final at last._

******

*Watched Finlay vs Tajiri too. Bored the life out of me at times. I liked the story and I didn't dislike anything they did but it was just far too slow and dull to ever grab my attention and never seemed to get out of first gear. Dark arena and quiet crowd certainly didn't help from my own personal standpoint either. Good match on paper but not good enough or maybe better put interesting enough in execution.*


----------



## Chismo

Ibushi, Marvin, Omega and Hayato are all great, but Jima is a top notch Junior, and he can work longer matches effectively too. One guy that is often overlooked is Kento Miyahara, that guy is pretty good.

As far as Dragon Gate guys are concerned, sure - they are mostly Juniors, but I don't count them, because they are somehow a different entity from the rest of the Puro. But yeah - Tozawa, YAMATO, Mochizuki and maybe even Doi are better than Nakajima.


----------



## MF83

Ricky Marvin does not belong in a best juniors discussion in any way in my opinion.

This new NOAH Nakajima is hit or miss. He was easily the best junior in the country before he turned into the typical no-sell/overkill NOAH junior. He is still tremendous at working a strategy and shorter matches in general, but he hasn't mastered his NOAH self yet. I miss him as a face. 

Outside of Dragon Gate, I would toss out Ibushi and heel KENTA as the two best and would say Nakajima, Hikaru Sato and Devitt round out the top 5. Hayato has had a few great matches, and because of that people tend to rank him up there but he isn't that reliable. Hiroshi Yamato is getting there, but not yet. Fucking super rookie KAI had to go and get worse rather than better. That guy could have been special, oh well. Kondo would probably be up there if he booked himself better. Kotaro is the NOAH style personified minus the persona, so that's however you want to interpret that. Yeah.


----------



## TelkEvolon

Atsushi Aoki is the best Junior.


----------



## seabs

JoeRulz said:


> but Jima is a top notch Junior, and he can work longer matches effectively too.


*God no. Did you watch his matches in KO last year that went over 25 minutes? They were fucking terrible.*


TelkEvolon said:


> Atsushi Aoki is the best Junior.


*Not even close. I thought he had a lot of promise a few years ago but he doesn't seem to have got any better. He's too bland and isn't that great of a worker to make up for it.*


----------



## Chismo

Seabs said:


> *God no. Did you watch his matches in KO last year that went over 25 minutes? They were fucking terrible.*


The "fucking terrible" description is a ridiculous exaggeration. Absolutely ridiculous.


----------



## TelkEvolon

Seabs, you're out of order. Humble yourself!


----------



## EmbassyForever

WWE Friday Night Smackdown 2012.02.03:
Sheamus/Dolph Ziggler - ***1/2


----------



## seabs

*It's not. They were genuinely really bad. The Hayato tags went to 30 minute draws with overtime for absolutely no reason and the crowd in the 2nd one were basically silent. Juniors should never wrestle that long but if they are then it needs to be a lot more than them kicking each other for 30 minutes. They had no structure, did nothing of interest and the crowds were shitty in all of them. They were as bad as Davey/Eddie from Final Battle. Slightly less stupid stuff but as equally hindered by them doing nothing for a really long stretch of time.*

*Kensuke Sasaki & Mitsuhiro Kitanomiya vs Jun Akiyama & Kenta Kobashi - Diamond Ring 11.02.2012*
_Oh I do love a great rookie tag and the best part is that they're so easy to do and get right. Kitanomiya puts in one of the best rookie performances I've seen recently though and really makes himself stand out from other rookies working a similar match. I don't often care for Akiyama but the exchanges with him and Kitanomiya were brilliant in this. Thoroughly enjoyed their opening segment with Akiyama just shrugging him off. Kitanomiya taking a rough one and bleeding added to it really well. Kitanomiya had everything you'd want from a guy in his position but especially load of fire and persistence. Akiyama complimented him really well in his role too. Sadly though Kobashi and Sasaki brought the match down whenever they got in so it was only great in parts rather than throughout. Kobashi was awful in this. It's no so much that he's old but it's the fact that he's so immobile that makes it no fun to watch him. Inevitable Kobashi/Sasaki chop exchange and it sucked and felt forced like they felt they had to do it because of 2005. Sasaki and Tenryu worked the same roles last year in the Tenryu Project 6 man where they just chop each other until one of them dies and they made it work. This was the total opposite of that. Could have done with a bit of time chopping off but it didn't drag much for long periods. Kitanomiya and Akiyama rocked a MOTYC despite how much Sasaki and Kobashi tried to drag it down._

******

*Watched Nakajima vs SHINGO from the same show. Good match I guess but NO to being a MOTYC. Maybe I just want more than wrestling from my matches with the current stuff. Felt too heavily reliant on a kick strike formula.*


----------



## Bubz

Seabs said:


> *Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yuji Okabayashi - BJW 26.02.2012*
> _I was nervous that this wouldn't be great but damn me for ever doubting these two in BJW because they NEVER fail to deliver these days. I was expecting more of a early 90's Steiners bomb fest from them but it was far from being that but they still made it work in their own unique way. They take a while to really get going but the feeling out process is really good and it works that start off slower with the partner vs partner deal and not wanting to make a mistake against the other because they no they can get punished for it. Yuji is amazing yet again and I promise you come 2012 he'll be rule of the entire world. He really brings to Daisuke and the crowd go nuts for him which was wonderful. Eventually towards the end it breaks down into more of a heavyweight style bomb fest but in a good way because once they bust out the heavy artillery you know the finish is coming soon because nobody can take their bombs for long. I do wish wrestlers wouldn't headbutt each other really hard but if it's gonna happen then this was the match to do it in because it was a great strong man match. They went about in a slightly different way to Sugiura/Sasaki last year but with an equally great outcome at the end of it. I love matches where the lower guys gets put over huge but they still keep the hierarchy in tact with the higher guy on the card being pushed to the limit but still claiming the victory. Loads of great near falls on Daisuke. At the risk of sound like a bit of a hypocrite I kinda wished they'd done a kickout or two more with Yuji to get over his fire but far better to be wanting more than doing too many. Got the feeling from the result they might do this match again in the Final with Yuji going over. That or they'll do Sasaki vs Shinobu in the final at last._
> 
> ******


Just watched this and this pretty much sums it up. I thought it was a bit too slow at first, but once they got going it was awesome. Those headbutts were nasty though, made me cringe.


----------



## ywall2breakerj

Saying Nakajima is the best junior while Marvin is alive is blasphemy.


----------



## Thomazbr

So just curious. Where Kotaro Suzuki falls into the "Best Juniors" discussions?


----------



## Chismo

Pretty high, IMO.


----------



## Bubz

I really don't get the Ricky Marvin love to be honest. He kind of annoys me.


----------



## TelkEvolon

Shinobu is the best junior!


----------



## Caponex75

Yeah, Ricky Marvin kinda sucks. I don't know where people are getting this best from and that is even if we just excluded it down just to Gajin. Outside of the ring, great personality but inside the guy is garbage. His title match with Nakajima was a show of why he is pretty fucking bad.


----------



## topper1

Caponex75 said:


> His title match with Nakajima was a show of why he is pretty fucking bad.


His great match with Nakajima is a good reason why he is bad


----------



## seancarleton77

Actually, Marvin's leg was mangled and nearly ripped off by Nakajima, which Marvin sold brilliantly... until the end when Marvin used 99% fucking leg moves, like a double knee drop and didn't even sell the after effects. #FuckingStupid


----------



## The Streak

Can't believe people watch a match and think "MY GOD, THIS IS A 4 AND 3/4 STAR MATCH!"

If it's good and it entertains you, that's all you need to know in my opinion.


----------



## Bubz

seancarleton77 said:


> Actually, Marvin's leg was mangled and nearly ripped off by Nakajima, which Marvin sold brilliantly... until the end when Marvin used 99% fucking leg moves, like a double knee drop and didn't even sell the after effects. #FuckingStupid


Exactly. It really annoyed me because he was doing such a great job up to the last 5 minutes and everything just went out the window.

I also don't like his music, his hair or his face and his girly screams of pain .

And the poster above, stop trolling and go back to the WWE section. Plus a lot of people had this conversation around mania time last year and it lasted for fucking pages so no thanks to that again.


----------



## Rah

The Streak said:


> Can't believe people watch a match and think "MY GOD, THIS IS A 4 AND 3/4 STAR MATCH!"
> 
> If it's good and it entertains you, that's all you need to know in my opinion.


So, to you, the point of _any_ review is inherently stupid and pointless?

We might as well not even say X match was good because we're not basing it on anything but a word without any comparison for others to work on. It's not that we believe ratings to be the be all and end all to matches (for most of us, anyway) but we don't always have time to sit down and write eloquent, 1000 word reviews for others to read a description of how we marked for each arm bar or lariat~! that's given in the match. Once you've watched a few matches you can begin to see how you fit in with other posters and their likes/dislikes and, most importantly, ratings so you can judge which matches to go out of your way to see. 

This is but an example, seeing his name is above yours, but say seancarleton77 gave one of the CM Punk Vs Daniel Bryan matches a 4.5-star rating and I know us to share an average difference of 1-star then I know not to watch it in the hopes of it being a MotYC because 3.5-stars is too low a threshold. If he was to simply say "great" or "outstanding" I wouldn't know exactly how good it is and I'll have had wasted my time (possibly not the greatest example of a match, seeing I enjoyed it, but you get the point).

Your belief is exactly how a forum I used to post on operates. I decided to check on their MotY 2012 list and I see a few posters nominating matches by simply saying "good" or "this match met all of my expectations and then some!" and leaving it at that. Now I don't know what that poster's expectations were, so I cannot say how good the match is. I decided to watch their nominations, anyway, and none of their matches are above the 3.5-star mark so I did waste my time. If they had stated that rating beforehand, however (seeing I know their tastes, too), I would have avoided all three matches.

_It's just easier for other posters..._



Bubz said:


> And the poster above, stop trolling and go back to the WWE section. *Plus a lot of people had this conversation around mania time last year and it lasted for fucking pages so no thanks to that again.*


Why is it that my luck always ends up with me writing a comment only for interjecting opinions/facts to make their way into a thread just before I post? FFS. :no:

Now, speaking of people just dropping ratings without giving in-depth reasons behind them:
*Jun Akiyama Vs Takao Omori (AJPW 03/02/2012)* 
*Rating:* around **** 1/4


----------



## Bubz

Rah said:


> Why is it that my luck always ends up with me writing a comment only for interjecting opinions/facts to make their way into a thread just before I post? FFS. :no:


I don't mind it if it's a sensible conversation lol, and your reply was very good and you have an intelligent argument, but then theres that guy above who obviously doesn't lol.


----------



## Caponex75

topper1 said:


> His great match with Nakajima is a good reason why he is bad


Great match? You mean the match where he didn't even bother to sell any of the long leg work? Don't get me wrong, I don't mind if a guy does his move and THEN sells the pain but he was just sprinting around as like nothing happened. His intensity is non existent and everything about him is pretty much terrible(Even his theme music sucks). Guy is pretty bad. The only match I remember liking of Marvin's in the past couple years is that one minute match with KENTA. That is about it.


----------



## Martyn

Zero-1 11th Anniversary & Daichi Hashimoto 1st Anniversary
Daichi Hashimoto & Shinjiro Othani vs. Kensuke Sasaki [D-RING] & Katsuhiko Nakajima [D-RING] - (**** 1/4). My MOTY so far.


----------



## seancarleton77

Martyn said:


> Zero-1 11th Anniversary & Daichi Hashimoto 1st Anniversary
> Daichi Hashimoto & Shinjiro Othani vs. Kensuke Sasaki [D-RING] & Katsuhiko Nakajima [D-RING] - (**** 1/4). My MOTY so far.


Hey, I agree with someone! Although it definitely dragged too much at the mid point, and Nakajima was too obsessed with movez as opposed to telling a story, while Otani, Kenskay & Lil Has were phenomenal!


----------



## Bubz

I just watched an Ambrose/Steamboat match from an FCW house show someone recorded. It's a great recording and the match is pretty awesome. They play up the fact that it's Richie Steamboat and Ambrose almost played the Flair role. Ambrose has turned into a fantastic pro wrestler on all levels which is something I never thought I would say a year or so ago when he was on the indies. Ambrose going after the leg and using the Figure Four was a great little touch. Probably around the **** mark.

Heres the match for anyone that's interested (don't let the fact it's a live recording bother you, it's awesome quality)...


----------



## EmbassyForever

ROH Homecoming 2012:

Chris Hero vs. Michael Elgin: ***1/2

No Holds Barred Match: Roderick Strong vs. Adam Cole: ***3/4

ROH World Title Match- Champion Vs. Champion: ROH World Champion Davey Richards vs. World TV Champion Jay Lethal: ****1/4

CZW Super Saturday:

Tommy Dreamer vs. Sami Callihan: ***1/2

AR Fox vs. Samuray Del Sol: ***1/2


----------



## Kid Kamikaze10

I was going to wait for a bit more of a consensus. You know, see if other people are able to find flaws in it that I didn't noticed.

But after seeing people praise the ROH 10th Anniversary ME, I'm just going to throw it in there.


Okada vs Naito. NJPW 40th Anniversary. ****1/2 - When you compare the two matches, it's like you can see exactly why NJPW is better than ROH right now in terms of match quality. 


Okada vs Naito had long term consistent selling. Not so much in Davey/Kyle vs Adam/Eddie. Like, when Okada got his leg hurt badly (do did a move that damaged it), he actually buckled down and sold it, sometimes falling over. Both guys sold their injuries after the match too even. No need to look "uber badass".

Okada vs Naito had move build up and very clear psychology, with some pretty cool spots and moves sprinkled in. ROH's ME... Had a lot of moves, practically no build up, and the psychology was REALLY loose, at best.

Okada vs Naito had control segments. Okada vs Naito had the crowds attention, etc.


Big flaw though: the beginning was very slow until Naito started picking up the offense.


Still, great match.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Just finished Okada vs Naito, It's a very entertaining match and worth a watch. As the above poster mentioned it was slow (and sloppy imo) at the beginning but really picked up and had some great back and forth action. I was really drawn into Okada in this match, he has a sweet arsenal of moves and really tries to sell stuff. However, he diverted from his heel mannerisms which I really enjoyed in his match vs Tanahashi.


----------



## antoniomare007

*Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yuji Okabayashi - BJW 26.02.2012*

Definitely the best match of their trilogy. It's so fun watching how Yuji has grown as a performer and as a threat to Daisuke, from Korakuen believing more in him every year to going head to head in the bombs department against Sekimoto. The headbutts were brutal but I've kinda become numb to them ever since Daisuke and Ibushi tried to kill each other in 2010. A great heavyweight battle, can't wait till they meet again in 2013.


----------



## Cactus

*IWGP Heavyweight Title Match*
Kazuchika Okada (c) vs Tetsuya Naito
_We all know I'm a mark for great limbwork and it's going to be no surprise that I loved this match. Okada weakened Naito's neck to set up for his Rainmaker and Naito went all Mutoh-style and took out Okada's leg via basement dropkicks. Plus, 99% of the moves here are all aimed at those body parts. Add on top of that those nuclear near-falls we always get in IWGP title matches and you're looking at my current MOTY. _
*****¼*


----------



## B-Boy21

Thomazbr said:


> So just curious. Where Kotaro Suzuki falls into the "Best Juniors" discussions?



I think he had the best 2011 of any wrestler in the world. So many amazing matches. Love the guys work. His Matches with Nakajima are some of the best Jrs matches in a good while. But I would Say Nakajima is the best. Hes just what I like in a wrestler. I would also add Ricky Marvin as the third best then. 

God Damn NOAH as Great Jrs


----------



## MF83

TelkEvolon said:


> Shinobu is the best junior!


Basically.

Fuck Ricky Marvin for he is a sloppy spotmonkey who has no grasp of psychology or selling. 

Okada vs. Naito was damn fine.


----------



## B-Boy21

MF83 said:


> Basically.
> 
> Fuck Ricky Marvin for he is a sloppy spotmonkey who has no grasp of psychology or selling.
> 
> Okada vs. Naito was damn fine.



Screw you MF, Marvin is awesome


----------



## TelkEvolon

MF83 said:


> Basically.


Yes! Shinobu is going to keep me relevant through these "ROHate" times.


----------



## MF83

*I discount Ricky Marvin from best of Japanese juniors discussion because his reliance upon spots and ignorance towards selling opponents' offense and logical match layout bothers me when it counts. He ain't "sloppy", but he tends to botch more often than most. See him ruining a potential all time classic match layout vs. Nakajima not long ago. 


I just never think to call Shinobu a junior because he's such a violent damn world beater.


----------



## B-Boy21

MF83 said:


> *I discount Ricky Marvin from best of Japanese juniors discussion because his reliance upon spots and ignorance towards selling opponents' offense and logical match layout bothers me when it counts. He ain't "sloppy", but he tends to botch more often than most. See him ruining a potential all time classic match layout vs. Nakajima not long ago.
> 
> 
> I just never think to call Shinobu a junior because he's such a violent damn world beater.



You crazy MF, lol. What are some good Shinobu matches to check out if he is so good? Im asking a serious question. I haven't seen to much of him.


----------



## TelkEvolon

MF83 said:


> Basically.
> 
> Fuck Ricky Marvin for he is a sloppy spotmonkey who has no grasp of psychology or selling.
> 
> Okada vs. Naito was damn fine.





B-Boy21 said:


> You crazy MF, lol. What are some good Shinobu matches to check out if he is so good? Im asking a serious question. I haven't seen to much of him.


----------



## mk92071

Haven't watched much wrestling this year so far. Just a few random DG infinities, WrestleKingdom, the Punk/Bryan matches, and little else. I started watch the indies in late '09 so I tend to watch a lot of older stuff. With that being said, these are my ****+ matches from 2012 so far. 

Shinsuke Nakamura and Toru Yano vs. Go Shiozaki and Naomichi Marufuji - 1/4/12 - ****
Tetsuya Naito vs. Keiji Mutoh - 1/4/12 - ****
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Minoru Suzuki - 1/4/12 - ****
CIMA vs. Jimmy Susumu - 2/5/12 - ****
Blood WARRIORS (Akira Tozawa, BxB Hulk, Cyber Kong, Fake Naoki Tanisaki, Kzy, Naruki Doi & Yasushi Kanda) vs. JUNCTION THREE (Dragon Kid, Jimmy Susumu, Masaaki Mochizuki, Masato Yoshino, Rich Swann, Shingo Takagi & YAMATO) - 2/9/12 - ****


----------



## Nervosa

TelkEvolon said:


>


In my opinion, there hasn't been a better match wrestled since this one took place 4 years ago. 

Which, as good as this was, really shows the sad state wrestling is in right now.

In all seriousness, I would love to say Shinobu is among the best Juniors, but he is too much of a victim of having not enough elite wrestlers to work with in order to have consistent, top quality matches.


----------



## Bubz

*ROH Homecoming - Hero vs Elgin*
Awesome match. Hero brought back some old school stuff and started doing the flippy/athletic stuff he used to do before the match and it was pretty funny and got the crowd behind him. Hero is definitely better as a cocky heel dominating a match, but he did really well here getting dominated by Elgin and he plays a really good sympathetic babyface. Once Hero gets his comeback going and they go into the finishing stretch it gets really great with some awesome nearfalls that had me thinking it was over. Hero also trimmed a lot of the fat off since he returned at Final Battle which was good to see. Now this is where Elgin looks like a beast, catching Hero, throwing him around and dead lifting him into a suplex. Probably my favourite Elgin match so far, but it's Chris Hero and that dude can play any role in a wrestling ring so it was no surprise he made Elgin look good and had a great match with him. ******

The best ROH match this year, and the most I've enjoyed one in ages. Hero owns.


----------



## TelkEvolon

Nervosa said:


> In all seriousness, I would love to say Shinobu is among the best Juniors, but he is too much of a victim of having not enough elite wrestlers to work with in order to have consistent, top quality matches.


A fair point, that is one of the things that always makes comparisons difficult. It's rare that talent get's to follow the same path and see who is better.


----------



## Bubz

*Okada vs Naito* was the fucking nuts. Both guys went in with a strategy and kept to it for pretty much the entire match. I've never been a big Naito fan, but I have to say he's made me a fan just from this match, he really showed me something. He was amazing at going after Okadas leg and never giving up on it, until later in the match, but I'll get to that later. Okada then goes after Naitos neck and almost everything he does is focussed on the neck and it's some really good offense too, all the while selling his leg, and selling it after he uses his leg for a dropkick, or hitting the tombstone on the outside for a near count out and grabbing his knee. Some of Naitos leg work is awesome, especially the dropkick off the apron to the railing, that was cool, and theres a submission he uses later on thats hella nifty. If there was one complaint it might be that Naito didn't really sell the neck too well when he was making his comebacks, but I can let that slide since Okada was selling his leg so well throughout and Naito just kept going after the leg. Okada is really growing on me, like his cocky facial expressions when he knows he's in control and the fact he is a good seller adds to that too and some of his submissions looked really cool. There were points that I got slightly worried that he was going to forget about it, but he didn't, maybe because naito focussed everything on the leg so he had no choice but to sell it. Then the finishing stretch was bloody awesome! It felt like Naito took his eye off of the weakness and went for his signature stuff, and thats what led to his downfall. Okada stayed focussed on the neck and never let up on it, all his signature stuff was on the neck and the match was so much better for it. I would like to see him use the tombstone as a finisher though instead of a random move he hits earlier in the match, but his Air Raid Neckbreaker and DVD look really good, and the way they transitioned into the massive lariat for the finish was really great. The crowd was alive for this too and really behind Naito, so that always adds to a match, but I heard some Okada chants too so he must be growing on the fans as well. My MOTY fur sure, and I can't see much topping this for me for a while. Awesome stuff that I recommend everyone go out of their way to see. *****1/2*


----------



## Caponex75

I almost want to flame Seabs for doubting that match.


----------



## Emperor DC

...and TNA had Okada as a camera man.

How very apt of them.


----------



## Manu_Styles

The main problem i had with Tanahashi vs Okada was that Okada gave me the impresion that left Tana do everything in the match. The match was great maybe one of the best Tanahashi perfomance, here is the same or Okada improve?


----------



## Bubz

He's better than he was in the Tana match for sure.


----------



## EffectRaven

Bubz said:


> *ROH Homecoming - Hero vs Elgin*
> Awesome match. Hero brought back some old school stuff and started doing the flippy/athletic stuff he used to do before the match and it was pretty funny and got the crowd behind him. Hero is definitely better as a cocky heel dominating a match, but he did really well here getting dominated by Elgin and he plays a really good sympathetic babyface. Once Hero gets his comeback going and they go into the finishing stretch it gets really great with some awesome nearfalls that had me thinking it was over. Hero also trimmed a lot of the fat off since he returned at Final Battle which was good to see. Now this is where Elgin looks like a beast, catching Hero, throwing him around and dead lifting him into a suplex. Probably my favourite Elgin match so far, but it's Chris Hero and that dude can play any role in a wrestling ring so it was no surprise he made Elgin look good and had a great match with him. ******
> 
> The best ROH match this year, and the most I've enjoyed one in ages. Hero owns.


I really, really wanna see this match being a huge fan of both men


----------



## wildpegasus

Bubz said:


> *Okada vs Naito* was the fucking nuts. Both guys went in with a strategy and kept to it for pretty much the entire match. I've never been a big Naito fan, but I have to say he's made me a fan just from this match, he really showed me something. He was amazing at going after Okadas leg and never giving up on it, until later in the match, but I'll get to that later. Okada then goes after Naitos neck and almost everything he does is focussed on the neck and it's some really good offense too, all the while selling his leg, and selling it after he uses his leg for a dropkick, or hitting the tombstone on the outside for a near count out and grabbing his knee. Some of Naitos leg work is awesome, especially the dropkick off the apron to the railing, that was cool, and theres a submission he uses later on thats hella nifty. If there was one complaint it might be that Naito didn't really sell the neck too well when he was making his comebacks, but I can let that slide since Okada was selling his leg so well throughout and Naito just kept going after the leg. Okada is really growing on me, like his cocky facial expressions when he knows he's in control and the fact he is a good seller adds to that too and some of his submissions looked really cool. There were points that I got slightly worried that he was going to forget about it, but he didn't, maybe because naito focussed everything on the leg so he had no choice but to sell it. Then the finishing stretch was bloody awesome! It felt like Naito took his eye off of the weakness and went for his signature stuff, and thats what led to his downfall. Okada stayed focussed on the neck and never let up on it, all his signature stuff was on the neck and the match was so much better for it. I would like to see him use the tombstone as a finisher though instead of a random move he hits earlier in the match, but his Air Raid Neckbreaker and DVD look really good, and the way they transitioned into the massive lariat for the finish was really great. The crowd was alive for this too and really behind Naito, so that always adds to a match, but I heard some Okada chants too so he must be growing on the fans as well. My MOTY fur sure, and I can't see much topping this for me for a while. Awesome stuff that I recommend everyone go out of their way to see. *****1/2*


Awesome match. This is my first time ever in seeing a match with Naito that was this long and I must say the guy absolutely blew me away. He was looking like one of the best wrestlers in the world. This guy has got "it". I have to see more of his matches!


----------



## Coffey

Can I just say that Kazuchika Okada Vs. Tetsuya Naito is my runaway Match of the Year so far? Holy shit, I was marking out all over the place.


----------



## Cactus

Walk-In said:


> Can I just say that Kazuchika Okada Vs. Tetsuya Naito is my runaway Match of the Year so far? Holy shit, I was marking out all over the place.


Yup. It's my MOTY so far too. I can realistically see it in my top 5 at the end of the year.


----------



## Rah

I managed to watch the *Naito/Okada* match with a friend last night - someone who is familiar with both men from TNA - and I can safely say I marked like a bitch. My friend wouldn't stop laughing at Naito (whom he thought looked like a jobber with his haircut) but even he got into this match, and he's a strong lucha-lover/puro-hater.

Admittedly, we both noticed some "The Pope" D'Angelo Dinero mannerisms in Okada but, as my friend said, when you're stalking him to such an extent, and video-taping his every move, it's totally understandable. Sigh, we're only two matches in to Okada's push and I'm already annoyed at TNA for misusing him to such an extent.

As for the match as a whole, I'd love to use Bubz' saying, as it sums it up more than any amount of words could: "Okada vs Naito was the fucking nuts"
*Rating:* 4.25+ (maybe a 4.5-)



Bubz said:


> C&P from the Puro thread...
> 
> *NOAH - The Navigation in February 2012
> 
> Nakajima vs Ishimori*
> I always say this about Nakajima, but I'll say it again here, he knows how to do a limb workover really well, and then use it to constantly gain the advantage later in the match. He did it here amazingly well, but ishimori's selling was quite bad throughout which took away from the great job Nakajima was doing. He sometimes would hold his leg for a second, but then was running around like a crazy person and hitting all his offense which pretty much all invovled using his knees or feet, hitting all his usual stuff like kicks, knees, lungblowers, dropkicks etc which annoyed me a bit. But that's the negative stuff out the way. Nakajima was awesome here, like I said working over the leg and then when Ishimori made his comebacks he would always go back to the leg to get the advantage back. The sequence leading to the finsih was awesome stuff and the nearfall off the 450 was great. So there was a few things that nagged me mostly to do with Ishimoris selling, but the good stuff far outweighed the bad, a lot like Nakajima/Marvin from last year, but I thought this was better.* *****
> 
> Nakajima is so good imo, he's easily my favourite Junior in Japan. To me, he's like if some scientist took Davey Richards and extracted all the shit and injected some wrestling logic into his brain. If you put him in the ring with someone who can sell (like SHINGO) you will pretty much be guaranteed a MOTYC.


Randomly pulled a match from Dailymotion and it happened to be this match. 

I couldn't agree more with your post, especially the Davey Richards line as I genuinely looked at it in the same light. They're most certainly more prone to an American Indy liking, what with their thigh-slapping and MOVEZ~!, but at least they kept it fun and still critically enjoyable.
*Rating:* 4+



Seabs said:


> *Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yuji Okabayashi - BJW 26.02.2012*
> *stuff*
> ******
> 
> *Watched Finlay vs Tajiri too. Bored the life out of me at times. I liked the story and I didn't dislike anything they did but it was just far too slow and dull to ever grab my attention and never seemed to get out of first gear. Dark arena and quiet crowd certainly didn't help from my own personal standpoint either. Good match on paper but not good enough or maybe better put interesting enough in execution.*


Funny, I thought mostly that of the Sekimoto/Okabayashi match.

I'm probably in a very select minority about that, though, but I just couldn't get into that match at all. Perhaps it was my preconceived bias for it that helped overshadow the match, but I can't say it did anything near enough to tickle me in the right place. The Nakajima/Ishimori bout did more for me, as did Reyes Del Aire which I watched in the same night. The latter probably coming in just shy of 4 stars (thanks to some seriously mark-out pins/moments).


----------



## geraldinhio

_I'm just gonna throw Kofi Kingston vs Dolph Ziggler from this weeks superstars out there. Wrestled at a frantic pace as expected , some awesome counters and some *great* near falls. I legit thought this match was over 3 or 4 times before the actual finish. Excellent finishing sequence and overall a super fun match for what it was. I usually hate Kofi but he was very good in this. Dolph was excellent as per usual and showed more charsima in this match then anyother. 
****+

I'm going watching Okada vs Naito tonight for obvious reasons but I really wanna watch Elgin vs Hero as I'm a big fan of both. I'll post my thoughts either tonight or tomorrow if I get time._


----------



## Bubz

I'm hoping I didn't overrate Hero/Elgin in my review, but I really dug it. I am a ridiculous Hero mark though lol.


----------



## Rah

geraldinhio said:


> I'm just gonna throw Kofi Kingston vs Dolph Ziggler from this weeks superstars out there. Wrestled at a frantic pace as expected , some awesome counters and some *great* near falls. I legit thought this match was over 3 or 4 times before the actual finish. Excellent finishing sequence and overall a super fun match for what it was. I usually hate Kofi but he was very good in this. Dolph was excellent as per usual and showed more charsima in this match then anyother.
> ****+


*Kofi Kingston Vs Dolph Ziggler (Superstars 08/03/2012)*

In the greater scheme of things I don't think this will be near most people's MOTYC list, but if we're to look at it solely for TV or WWE then I don't see why this match shouldn't run at the forefront of anyone's list. It's a very decent back and forth match-up with quite a nice finishing stretch that plays on Dolph's strategic manner of wrestling and Kofi's out-of-nowhere offence.

Dolph's mannerisms and general heel shtick are almost second-to-none right now, and I simply love watching him do his thing whenever he's on TV. I'm even considering changing my sigpic to the headstand he did in this match. I mean, not to sound too homoerotic, but Vickie's face is basically a perfect representation of how I feel about Dolph. I'm really hoping WWE keep utilising him as their workhorse, especially when some of the better FCW talent are called up. :mark:

*Rating:* 3.75

My 80th match of this year, too. Inb4 "get a life, loooooooolz"


----------



## seabs

*I thought it was better than their other 198 matches 

It's really good btw but I thought Kofi stopped it from being great. His offence is really sloppy and he kinda fluffed the finish so the crowd weren't as into the final pin as they maybe could have been but Ziggler was brilliant enough to make up for Kofi's shortcomings. Probably top 5 WWE TV match so far in 2012 but not the best at all.*


----------



## Emperor DC

Ziggler really should be positioned at the top of Raw or Smackdown after Wrestlemania.

Whatever is given to him, he uses and makes it absolutely brilliant.

When you wonder about a whole package, you just need to look at him.


----------



## Bubz

Ziggler/Kofi was really good. Ziggler is so awesome right now, this guy has it all. As for the match I'd give it around ***3/4, really strong tv MOTYC but the first two Punk/Bryan matches are easily better.


----------



## Rah

Seabs said:


> * Probably top 5 WWE TV match so far in 2012 but not the best at all.*


Top 5? 

I've only got four WWE TV matches in my top 30 MOTY list and I'd easily slot this match in the top three (with the Punk/Bryan Raw match not too far ahead). 

CM Punk Vs Daniel Bryan (Smackdown 22/02/2012) 4+
CM Punk Vs Daniel Bryan (WWE Raw 30/01/2012) 4
Daniel Bryan Vs Big Show (WWE Smackdown 13/01/2012) 3.75
CM Punk Vs Dolph Ziggler (WWE Raw 02/01/2012) 3.5

With Ziggler/Kofi I just scrape 5. Pray tell which matches I must be missing?


----------



## seabs

*
Daniel Bryan vs Big Show - No DQ Match - World Heavyweight Championship - Smackdown 13.01.2012
Usos vs Curt Hawkins & Tyler Reks - NXT 25.01.2012
CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan - Raw 30.01.2012
Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett - No DQ Match - Smackdown 03.02.2012
Usos vs Curt Hawkins & Tyler Reks - NXT 08.02.2012
Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton - Smackdown 10.02.2012
Tyson Kidd vs Curt Hawkins - NXT 15.02.2012
Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - Smackdown 17.02.2012
Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk - Smackdown 21.02.2012
Tyson Kidd vs Tyler Reks - NXT 22.02.2012
Sheamus vs Dolph Ziggler - Smackdown 02.03.2012
Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton - Smackdown 02.03.2012

were all better I thought so I guess around top 10-12. I'm really not high on Kofi though and I didn't like the Superstars match as much as others.*


----------



## Rickey

OKADA vs NAITO IWGP 

Dat leg work. The build up to the lariat. Very good match.


----------



## Rah

Seabs said:


> *
> Daniel Bryan vs Big Show - No DQ Match - World Heavyweight Championship - Smackdown 13.01.2012
> Usos vs Curt Hawkins & Tyler Reks - NXT 25.01.2012
> CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan - Raw 30.01.2012
> Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett - No DQ Match - Smackdown 03.02.2012
> Usos vs Curt Hawkins & Tyler Reks - NXT 08.02.2012
> Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton - Smackdown 10.02.2012
> Tyson Kidd vs Curt Hawkins - NXT 15.02.2012
> Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - Smackdown 17.02.2012 (have this at 2.75 :lmao)
> Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk - Smackdown 21.02.2012
> Tyson Kidd vs Tyler Reks - NXT 22.02.2012
> Sheamus vs Dolph Ziggler - Smackdown 02.03.2012
> Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton - Smackdown 02.03.2012
> 
> were all better I thought so I guess around top 10-12. I'm really not high on Kofi though and I didn't like the Superstars match as much as others.*


Those in red are ones I disagree with, but I'll give those NXT matches a try. I have a feeling the disdain you have for Kofi I have tenfold for Reks and Hawkins but Kidd's usually good enough to pull a decent match out of most people, so I'm sure Hawkins (at the very least) will be no different. 

Suppose my Sunday shall be busy, then. What with these and my growing pile of WON MotY winners from the 80s to go through. 

As an aside, I'm thinking of starting a thread called "Shattering The Hype" where people can post reviews slating widely loved matches they don't find any good - inspired by the Ramon/HBK ladder match and Nervosa's signature.


----------



## milkman7

Hey, Rah, do you have your list of MOTYs up somewhere? I would be interested in seeing it.


----------



## seabs

*PAC vs Rich Swann vs Brodie Lee vs Sami Callihan - 2CW 21.01.2012*
_http://vimeo.com/36790596

Awesome sub 10 minute spotfest. Crowd go nuts for everything and you've got 4 strong enough characters in there to care about the spots. Brodie's early domination was great, especially that punch when Sami charged at him off the belt. Swann's flips are crazy good and he's improved a shit ton since touring with Dragon Gate. Before he was just flips but now like PAC & Ricochet he's learned how and when to do them effectively and he's starting to fit the pieces together into becoming a really great high flyer. Swann's the star of this. Him and Sami have some awesome sequences together and they hit each other really fucking hard in a great great way. PAC's on his holidays so just shows up to do some of his trademark shtick but that's better than most things on the Indies right now and in this type of a match it's great. All 4 men rocked in this, the spots were incredible and the crowd were crazy. You wont see many better sub 10 minute matches than this in 2012._

****3/4+*


----------



## smitlick

Seabs said:


> *PAC vs Rich Swann vs Brodie Lee vs Sami Callihan - 2CW 21.01.2012*
> _http://vimeo.com/36790596
> 
> Awesome sub 10 minute spotfest. Crowd go nuts for everything and you've got 4 strong enough characters in there to care about the spots. Brodie's early domination was great, especially that punch when Sami charged at him off the belt. Swann's flips are crazy good and he's improved a shit ton since touring with Dragon Gate. Before he was just flips but now like PAC & Ricochet he's learned how and when to do them effectively and he's starting to fit the pieces together into becoming a really great high flyer. Swann's the star of this. Him and Sami have some awesome sequences together and they hit each other really fucking hard in a great great way. PAC's on his holidays so just shows up to do some of his trademark shtick but that's better than most things on the Indies right now and in this type of a match it's great. All 4 men rocked in this, the spots were incredible and the crowd were crazy. You wont see many better sub 10 minute matches than this in 2012._
> 
> ****3/4+*


***1/2

Match was fine, It thankfully had minimal amounts of Callihan but i hated the finish. Just looked awful. Also a few spots like Brodie not pinning Swann after the Slam was just stupid.


----------



## milkman7

Too Cold Scorpio vs Vordell Walker - PWE 1/28/12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9qvK1jlu_Tw

Scorpio works this match like a skinnier, blacker, flashier Vader that can hit the mat. The short matwork segment we get is fine, but when they start laying the leather is when the match really picks up. This match was good enough to cause the douchebags in the crowd who were trying to get themselves over to shut the hell up and enjoy this damn good match, and I think that is mainly because the brutal stiffness of it all. Scorpio and Walker, who I don't really know much about, were hitting HARD. Scorpio had a really awesome punch combo on Walker after he got pissed. He also had some nasty kicks to the face and some his flip kicks. The thing about flip kicks is most of them suck, but not when Too Cold Scorpio does them. He just has a way of not letting things suck. Scorpio also took a belly to belly into the turnbuckle and landed right on his head. It was sweet. The finishing stretch was also really good. This match is definitely worth going out of your way to see.


----------



## smitlick

milkman7 said:


> Too Cold Scorpio vs Vordell Walker - PWE 1/28/12
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9qvK1jlu_Tw
> 
> Scorpio works this match like a skinnier, blacker, flashier Vader that can hit the mat. The short matwork segment we get is fine, but when they start laying the leather is when the match really picks up. This match was good enough to cause the douchebags in the crowd who were trying to get themselves over to shut the hell up and enjoy this damn good match, and I think that is mainly because the brutal stiffness of it all. Scorpio and Walker, who I don't really know much about, were hitting HARD. Scorpio had a really awesome punch combo on Walker after he got pissed. He also had some nasty kicks to the face and some his flip kicks. The thing about flip kicks is most of them suck, but not when Too Cold Scorpio does them. He just has a way of not letting things suck. Scorpio also took a belly to belly into the turnbuckle and landed right on his head. It was sweet. The finishing stretch was also really good. This match is definitely worth going out of your way to see.


I dont really see the comparison to Vader beside the Moonsault. The match was really slow and really not at all a MOTYC. Walker really isn't very good at all. 

**3/4 at most for me.


----------



## djmathers1207

Kofi vs. Ziggler- ***3/4


----------



## Rah

*Fit Finlay Vs Mal Sanders (London Eye 48)*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0TucJ4D5T4​
Off the bat: for those who found the Finlay/Tajiri match uninteresting, you probably will like this even less, but for what it was it really kicked some serious ass. 

I'm not too clued up on the WoS-style but from what I've read many find it an old artform with true gems being few and far between. This match showed, though, that WoS still has a place in modern wrestling. 

The change of style wasn't the only refreshing aspect to this match, either, as it seemed almost surreal to watch Finlay in the defensive position as opposed to the more hard-hitting, top dog role he's come to embrace in his Indy run. I doubt I've watched Mal Sanders wrestle before but his heel work was great, especially using the mid-round breaks as opportunities to attack Finlay's injured left hand when he wasn't ready for it. Instead of relying on his brawling, Finlay had to accustom himself to out-thinking the shrewd Sanders in picking up the win - picking out weaknesses within Sanders' cheating ways and finally picking out a win at the end because of it.

The ending felt a bit flat, but it still added to the little story dynamic within the match. Ultimately Sanders beat himself (well, cost himself the match) by giving Finlay an unnecessary win in the hopes of damaging him enough with the low blow to pick up his needed final two wins (best of 5) but it wasn't to be. 

It's always fun watching two grumpy bastards beating each other and this was no exception. I'll definitely keep my ears open for more Sanders matches but I'm going to doubt any match will take this match's place as WoS MotY.

*Rating:* ****




Seabs said:


> *PAC vs Rich Swann vs Brodie Lee vs Sami Callihan - 2CW 21.01.2012*
> _http://vimeo.com/36790596
> 
> Awesome sub 10 minute spotfest. Crowd go nuts for everything and you've got 4 strong enough characters in there to care about the spots. Brodie's early domination was great, especially that punch when Sami charged at him off the belt. Swann's flips are crazy good and he's improved a shit ton since touring with Dragon Gate. Before he was just flips but now like PAC & Ricochet he's learned how and when to do them effectively and he's starting to fit the pieces together into becoming a really great high flyer. Swann's the star of this. Him and Sami have some awesome sequences together and they hit each other really fucking hard in a great great way. PAC's on his holidays so just shows up to do some of his trademark shtick but that's better than most things on the Indies right now and in this type of a match it's great. All 4 men rocked in this, the spots were incredible and the crowd were crazy._
> ****3/4+*


Pimped this in another thread for the action sequences, but it's nothing more than a simple yet fun "exhibition" of talent for 2CW's cancer benefit show. It took a while to get going, imo, but a few minutes in and shit just hits the fan left, right and centre. Brodie Lee definitely stood out at the beginning, due to his size, but once he hit that headscissors any doubter knew he could hang with the others. 

Like smitlick said, however, I wouldn't really mark this as a MotY, though. Honourable mention, sure (as everyone needs to just see the balls craziness these guys put out), but I wouldn't pimp it as anything more. Super eager for 2CW's April events, though. That might deliver.

I didn't review this, originally, but I'll probably go about 3.5+ for it. Bottom of the barrel for my top 30 probably, but it's still a great spotfest each time I watch it.



Seabs said:


> *You wont see many better sub 10 minute matches than this in 2012.*


Challenge accepted.  (I'll probably fail miserably, though)



milkman7 said:


> Hey, Rah, do you have your list of MOTYs up somewhere? I would be interested in seeing it.


I actually don't. 

I was thinking of starting a thread on the other forum, but I'm a bit too lazy to do write-ups for the ones I didn't nominate/review already so I held back on it. I'll gladly place a top 15 here, though I must say a lot is Puro as its been my unintended focus thanks to PWG KRR 3 and a few other American indies not surfacing yet not to mention I will probably rewatch and readjust quite a few of these but, as of right now, this is my top 15:

*4.25+*

Kazuchika Okada © vs Tetsuya Naito (NJPW 40th Anniversary Event)
Tajiri Vs Fit Finlay (Smash 25)
Hiroshi Tanahashi Vs Okada Kazuchika (NJPW 12/02/2012)

*4.25*

Kenny Omega Vs Hiroshi Yamato (AJPW 03/01/2012)
Jun Akiyama Vs Takao Omori (AJPW 03/02/2012)

*4+*

Daisuke Sekimoto Vs Suwama (AJPW 02/01/2012)
Aoki Atsushi & Suzuki Kotaro Vs Kotoge Atsushi & Harada Daisuke (NOAH 22/01/2012)
Hiroshi Tanahashi Vs Minoru Suzuki (NJPW Wrestlekingdom)
Danshoku Dino Vs Antonio Honda (DDT 19/02/2013)
Shingo Takagi Vs Katsuhiko Nakajima (Diamond Ring 11/02/2012)
Daisuke Sekimoto & Yuji Okabayashi Vs Akebono & Ryoto Hama (AJPW 03/01/2012)
Kensuke Sasaki & Mitsuhiro Kitanomiya Vs Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama (Diamond Ring 11/02/2012)
CM Punk Vs Daniel Bryan (Smackdown 22/02/2012)
Black Terry Vs Chico Che (IWRG 22/01/2012)
Katsuhiko Nakajima Vs Taiji Ishimori (NOAH 25/02/2012)

Maybe it'll be good for all of us to do a quarter-annual listing of what our top ten/fifteen looks like so far, just as reference points?


----------



## milkman7

smitlick said:


> I dont really see the comparison to Vader beside the Moonsault. The match was really slow and really not at all a MOTYC. Walker really isn't very good at all.
> 
> **3/4 at most for me.


Compared him to Vader because he beat the shit out of him, and I guess this is one of those things where our tastes are just way too different. Also, Vordell is pretty good going by this match.


----------



## seabs

milkman7 said:


> Too Cold Scorpio vs Vordell Walker - PWE 1/28/12
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9qvK1jlu_Tw
> 
> Scorpio works this match like a skinnier, blacker, flashier Vader that can hit the mat. The short matwork segment we get is fine, but when they start laying the leather is when the match really picks up. This match was good enough to cause the douchebags in the crowd who were trying to get themselves over to shut the hell up and enjoy this damn good match, and I think that is mainly because the brutal stiffness of it all. Scorpio and Walker, who I don't really know much about, were hitting HARD. Scorpio had a really awesome punch combo on Walker after he got pissed. He also had some nasty kicks to the face and some his flip kicks. The thing about flip kicks is most of them suck, but not when Too Cold Scorpio does them. He just has a way of not letting things suck. Scorpio also took a belly to belly into the turnbuckle and landed right on his head. It was sweet. The finishing stretch was also really good. This match is definitely worth going out of your way to see.


*Watched this yesterday as well actually. It's good, probably really good actually. Didn't think it was great or a MOTYC though. Scorpio looked great.*


----------



## ViolenceIsGolden

milkman7 said:


> Too Cold Scorpio vs Vordell Walker - PWE 1/28/12
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9qvK1jlu_Tw
> 
> Scorpio works this match like a skinnier, blacker, flashier Vader that can hit the mat. The short matwork segment we get is fine, but when they start laying the leather is when the match really picks up. This match was good enough to cause the douchebags in the crowd who were trying to get themselves over to shut the hell up and enjoy this damn good match, and I think that is mainly because the brutal stiffness of it all. Scorpio and Walker, who I don't really know much about, were hitting HARD. Scorpio had a really awesome punch combo on Walker after he got pissed. He also had some nasty kicks to the face and some his flip kicks. The thing about flip kicks is most of them suck, but not when Too Cold Scorpio does them. He just has a way of not letting things suck. Scorpio also took a belly to belly into the turnbuckle and landed right on his head. It was sweet. The finishing stretch was also really good. This match is definitely worth going out of your way to see.


2 Cold Scorpio is going to work a 60 minute iron man match on a Goodman show real soon. Just wondering if this is the match right here.


----------



## milkman7

This match isn't it, but I am intrigued by Scorpio going an hour. I'd like to see if he can keep it interesting for an hour.


----------



## Cactus

My thoughts on some of the MOTYCs that have been spoken of...

*Fit Finlay vs Mal Sanders
LDN Wrestling; 2012/xx/xx*

_Awesome old-school styled match. Mal worked great as heel, tearing Finlay's arm nearly off using illegal tactics and Finlay being the great old-school babyface he is, sold it like a champ. The first two rounds were full of limbwork and I found this boring, but it had a purpose and really added to the final rounds. Oh, the ending was also sick and well-thought out. _

*Rating: ***3/4*

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Vordell Walker vs Too Cool Scorpio
PWE; 2012/01/28*

_I hate to be 'that guy' but I'm not a big fan of this Scorpio match. I really don't see how anyone can call it a MOTYC. The first ten minutes were dull as shit and the match only became slight enjoyable in the last few minutes. The venue and crowd really didn't help either. The match was held in small hall in front of say about 100 people, and 90% of them were silent throughout the match. The only good I can say about this bout is the stiffness and some of Scorpio's offense. _

*Rating: **1/2*

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

*PAC vs Rich Swann vs Brodie Lee vs Sami Callihan
2CW; 2012/01/21*

Decent spotfest and nothing more for me. I enjoyed it, but there is going to be plenty of PWG spotties that will knock this out by the end of the year. Plus, the end was bleh.

*Rating: ***1/4*


----------



## Concrete

The 4-Way of Doom was pretty impressive live and came across well on camera. I think I would go somewhere closer to Seabs in my rating but I have decided to not give ratings until I feel REAL solid on it. But the match was wall to wall action and I think it could have been just a little longer to give it a real fitting ending. 2CW has a way to end good matches with rollups instead of building to a satisfying ending. And like Rah I am super excited for 2CW's April events. There are two Briscoes matches that have a chance of being really solid.


----------



## milkman7

****** Casas vs Blue Panther - CMLL 3/2/12*

This is hair vs hair, and it is awesome. ***** Casas looks like the best wrestler in the world here. Every time he would do something to Panther he would get this huge grin on his face. And he was violently tearing Panther apart. A lot of it was really stiff too, especially for lucha standards. Panther took it all really well too. His facial expressions were also great, he really sold the beatings he was taking with a look excruciating pain etched across his face. I can't really think of any criticism for this match. I could see somebody watching and complaining about the first two falls being short, but they made sense. Flash finishes are pretty great, especially flash armbars after you have had your ass handed to you by ***** Casas. The third fall is lengthy segment of the match where most of the meat is. And damn if that meat isn't tender, succulent, and juicy as fuck. The fujiwara armbar to floor was awesome, probably spot of the match, month, and maybe year. A whole lot of goodness here. 

CMLL continues their roll as best promotion in the world by riding the coattails of the Casas/Panther feud. And ***** Casas is the best wrestler in the world right now.


----------



## Rah

milkman7 said:


> And ***** Casas is the best wrestler in the world right now.











52 year old Condescending Casas agrees with you, good sir.


----------



## milkman7

That is the greatest picture I have ever seen, and I have seen a picture of a naked Scarlett Johansson.


----------



## ダニエル

Even as a massive puroresu dork, I _fully_ endorse Condescending Casas's lack of regard for Sekimoto. I honestly have never understood why anyone thinks Sek is one of the best. His buddy Oka has surpassed him already working the same style better. *shrugs* Explanations/disagreements anyone?


----------



## milkman7

Will you take an agreement? Because I pretty much agree wholeheartedly with that statement.


----------



## jawbreaker

ダニエル;11154565 said:


> Even as a massive puroresu dork, I _fully_ endorse Condescending Casas's lack of regard for Sekimoto. I honestly have never understood why anyone thinks Sek is one of the best. His buddy Oka has surpassed him already working the same style better. *shrugs* Explanations/disagreements anyone?


yeah, I'm gonna agree here, but Sekimoto was better first and came to the US so he's got more exposure, etc.


----------



## antoniomare007

ダニエル;11154565 said:


> Even as a massive puroresu dork, I _fully_ endorse Condescending Casas's lack of regard for Sekimoto. I honestly have never understood why anyone thinks Sek is one of the best. His buddy Oka has surpassed him already working the same style better. *shrugs* Explanations/disagreements anyone?


I don't watch lucha so I can't talk about Casas but meh, even though I love Yuji he ain't seeing Daisuke yet.

Daisuke is way more over so he's able to have more heated and "epic" battles with a variety of opponents. Yuji has improved a ton in the last 2 years thanks to working with Sekimoto and because he's been giving the chance to shine in their tags (It's more and more common seing Daisuke in the outside being an afterthought while Yuji does some really impressive shit in the ring). I can see the argument of Okabayashi being better in tags doing pretty much the same things Daisuke does (although I see it more as Daisuke letting him shine) and he showed last year he can be an amazing bully too, but he isn't THAT good in singles yet and still has trouble getting the crowd fully behind him.

Oka is nowhere near having a run like Daisuke did in 2010' with the KO-D Title, tagging with Yoshihito, raping Chikara's roster, etc. And he still has ways to go before he has a red hot Korakuen behind him in an inter promotional battle.


----------



## Bubz

antoniomare007 said:


> I don't watch lucha so I can't talk about Casas but meh, even though I love Yuji he ain't seeing Daisuke yet.
> 
> Daisuke is way more over so he's able to have more heated and "epic" battles with a variety of opponents. Yuji has improved a ton in the last 2 years thanks to working with Sekimoto and because he's been giving the chance to shine in their tags (It's more and more common seing Daisuke in the outside being an afterthought while Yuji does some really impressive shit in the ring). I can see the argument of Okabayashi being better in tags doing pretty much the same things Daisuke does (although I see it more as Daisuke letting him shine) and he showed last year he can be an amazing bully too, but he isn't THAT good in singles yet and still has trouble getting the crowd fully behind him.
> 
> Oka is nowhere near having a run like Daisuke did in 2010' with the KO-D Title, tagging with Yoshihito, raping Chikara's roster, etc. And he still has ways to go before he has a red hot Korakuen behind him in an inter promotional battle.


I agree with this. I think Okabayashi is great but Sekimoto is just that much better. Sekimoto is one of, if not my favourite, guy to watch in Japan at the minute.


----------



## seabs

*Jun Akiyama vs Takao Omori - Triple Crown Championship - AJPW 03.02.2012*
_I'm confident at this point I could watch the worst wrestlers ever have a horrible match for 20 minutes and as long as the crowd were as hot as they were for this I'd still enjoy the fuck out of it. Good match made really good by a super K.Hall crowd. 1st half of the match showed loads of promise and started off great but the middle portion was a step down and then the finishing run sucked so it started off with the potential to be great but fell flat in the end. Thanks to the crowd though it was still very good. Transition sequence on the mats from the start to Jun's control segment working the arm was super. Omori took some super bumps, especially the dive onto the rail. Set the arm work up really well and then Akiyama went for it. It ended up just being something for them to do in the middle portion though and allowed Akiyama to work a slower pace. The workover was too heavy on "lock in an arm submission and keep him in it for a few minutes so I can rest". Omori was great in the submissions but he really spent too long in holds that should be more effective over that amount of time. No real payoff to the arm work once they finished with that portion of the match either which was lame. Some really terrible stuff in the last 5 or whatever minutes. Omori taking an exploder suplex and popping right back up into another only to kick out and wrestle for another 5 odd minutes was shitty. Would have made a great spot to finish on though with Omori firing up one last time only to get caught straight in another exploder. The combo of stiff knee strikes sucked and shouldn't have just lead to yet another 2 count. It's not like Omori got back up and started to get his own shit in but it didn't feel rewarding and necessary. Finish looked botched too which I guess meant they had more spots to run through._


----------



## Rah

That match kicked ass and was the perfect cap to the good Omega/Hayashi bout before it.

I beg to differ on the botched ending, though. Akiyama hit his Sternness Dust α, the crowd and announcers were at their peak and Akiyama covered him knowing the match was done. I'm just doubtful he'd pull out his big match finisher only for Omori to kick out (especially noting the build up to this point). If anything it was the ref who botched the ending - slipping his hand in the pretense Omori would kick out, realised his mistake and counted for a "fourth".

Not to continually play devil's advocate, either, but I don't see the issue with the exploder suplexes, too. I'd have found it silly to end that match on an exploder, as it would have been epically flat, but Omori sold it fine. After kicking out of a second exploder, it's not like he went Eddie Edwards style and no-sold everything. He actually looked dazed and collapsed after returning some offence at a charging Akiyama. It's just an exploder, after all. Omori's Full Nelson Suplex later on, and especially the overabundance of German Suplexes in wrestling prove contrary to that statement, too. Both look nastier than an exploder (which saw Omori land more squarely on his shoulders), as the opponent lands on his neck and the tops of his shoulders. If we're to ignore those I don't see why we can't give a pass to the exploder either. After all it is less painful, realistically.

I loved the kicks, as well, and, imo, they played a part in putting Omori's legitimacy over. He endured those exploders, a heapful of punishment throughout the match and some stiff-as-hell kicks that made him bleed and yet still kept on going - _that's fighting spirit_. It just helped build up to having him put away with the SD-α for me.

Great match and great crowd. I covered my rating for it in my Top 15 list I posted a couple days ago, but needless to say this is still my 5th in line for MotY.

Side note: JA needs to seriously invest in some new spandex. That silver design over his crack continually makes me think Akiyama has a serious anal-sweat problem.


----------



## 777

Had been avoiding the forum somewhat trying to keep excited for the build to Wrestlmania but decided to visit today and am I ever glad that I did. 
Casas vs Panther is, as of now, my personal MOTY, though idk if it will hold up for the entire year. Great stuff, Casas has alway been fantastic, particularly as a rudo. Nice to see him getting some love here on the forum.


----------



## ダニエル

Okabayashi gets _more_ heat at the end of the interpromotional tags than Sekimoto, especially the ones in Korakuen. Not that getting heat automatically means a better worker. Anyway, the reason he gets more heat is that Okabayashi has a lot more chance of being pinned than Sekimoto, raising the drama a bit. He was better in the April BJPW/AJPW tag than Sekimoto (I didn't think anything of the other iterations) and Sekimoto has been pretty damn awful in the 2012 tags. Even though I don't think Okabayashi is a high level guy, he has better selling, better on offence and can lay out a good finish stretch. I admit to liking Sekimoto a bit in the past, but he has gone backwards. He's not very imaginative and once you've seen one Sek match, you've seen em all.

You guys should watch Casas's stuff. I'm really not much of a lucha guy but I enjoy his work a lot. He has obvious influence from puroresu, and he does it damn brilliantly. Our forum puroresu.tv has lists for Mexico & US that are voted for by mostly puroresu fans, so it's probably more accessible for you than a WKO list e.g. Casas/Panther matches have been spectacular.


----------



## milkman7

Casas is currently the best worker in the world, in my opinion, and Japanese Letters is right about him being accessible. If you want to get into lucha, I would say start with some Casas. The hair vs hair match against Blue Panther would be a good place to start if you wanted to jump right into this year's action. But he also has had some fantastic matches with El Hijo Del Santo throughout the years.


----------



## Rah

I think you'll find it actually means Daniel. But the "Japanese Letters" made me laugh.

Tbh, I added that caption because, from what I've noticed, Sekimoto seems to be in many people's higher rated matches and they have genuinely said he's gunning for their worker of the year. I saw the picture of Casas, was reminded of Condescending Wonka, and knew I had to post it in reference to Milkman7's claim. I had no idea it would get this much attention, but perhaps it's deservedly needed. 



****** Casas Vs Blue Panther (02/03/2012)​*​





What I loved about these two is that they've taken the annoying short-fall concept and integrated it into a meaningful aspect to the match. For instance, the first fall came in around two minutes, but it made sense. Casas knew an early fall wouldn't be as detrimental to him as fighting the Fujiwara would have been and wrestling the rest of the match one arm down. It also gave Panther a target to hone his stiff kicks and attacks on, too. Panther took a different route to Casas' submission, though, and paid for it.

I loved the beginning of the tercero caida, too. It just hit home that these guys weren't interested in anything but injuring each other and making the most out of their grudge match. That sick smile from Casas, as well as him taunting the crap out of an injured Panther is probably one of my favourite moments in wrestling this year (behind Tajiri weeping after his match with Finlay).

It was pretty weird to see an Aspuestas match end in a draw, but my guess is that they're wishing to continue milking this great feud and looking at a blow-off at one of the Anniversary shows (April or September). Exceedingly better on second viewing and definite contender for one of my final top matches of the year.

*Rating:* 4.25+

*Yuji Nagata & Wataru Inoue vs Masayuki Kono & Minoru (AJPW 03/02/2012)*​
Seabs described the match perfectly way back in the thread, but I'll say it again. This match built on so much from the WK incident and will probably go down as one of the better short matches of the year. Funaki's lackeys going solely for Nagata really added to the dynamic and played a lot on the crowd not giving a single iota about the outsider Inoue. Really loved how whenever he made a gesture or attempted to get into the ring, Kono/Minoru would kick the shit out of him and push him back out. Great little story with a nice ending that played on the WK incident that started all of this.

This was a great event for AJPW. The bout makes it match three for three that I've enjoyed the hell out of on this event alone - Jun Akiyama Vs Takao Omori (4.25), Kenny Omega Vs Kaz Hayashi (4+) and now this. Gently Caress!

*Rating:* 3.75


----------



## B-Boy21

***** Casas Vs Blue Panther, hair vs hair- ****1/2 or 90%. Great stuff but I didn't like the finish too much.


----------



## seabs

*Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW 04.03.2012*
_Incredible match. I was worried about it going too long and dragging in the middle and maybe that these two weren't experienced enough to work a big singles main event together without a Tanahashi to guide them through. Fuck I was wrong about all of that. Easily career performances for both men and such a well worked match too. Didn't feel like 25 minutes in the slightest and the transition into the finish was so effortlessly seamless. Sequence leading to the finish was beautiful. Both men got to the point when they went for their big stuff and it lead to the end of the match. Simple. Okada going for his lariat but Naito dodging and then Okada's resilience to hit it paying off was sweet. I'll take a super finishing sequence like this over a choreographed finishing stretch that has it's own identity to the rest of the match every single time. Rest of the match was on that level too. The contrasting limb work was brilliant and the selling was even better. I hate a Tombstone Piledriver just being a transition spot but I guess these days you just have to live with it and accept it as just another move. Once you do that you have one hell of a transition spot here and the crowd reaction to it showed why. I thought Okada looked nervous and uncertain at times in the Tanahashi match but he worked with it here. There still was them moments but played it off as cockyness and it was super how he'd take his time when he was in control and just play with Naito. Bunch of swanky looking submissions from both men too, especially Okada. Really loved some of the submissions they busted out. Okada's leg selling was awesome too. He didn't overdo it and that made me like it even more. Fantastic match. #1 right now and it's gonna be an amazing year if this drops out of my top 10._

*****1/2*

*Juventud Guerrera vs Zema Ion - X Project 19.02.2012*
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG9MP0N6Klo

Not quite a MOTYC but almost there. Probably would have been if it didn't have fucking Sami Callihan doing a run in for the finish. Juvi looks as super as ever and his offence is incredible. It's a handheld recording and Juvi does a dive and lands right by the guy recording it which was super. Some sweet spots in the crowd on the chairs. Ion looks decent and has some flashy moves that he hits well. Match cuts here and there but I'm certain you never miss anything of note. Not quite great but really fucking good and well worth watching for 10 minutes._


----------



## BomaYe!

Okada Vs. Naito,NJPW 04/03/12- ****1/2. 
My MOTY, followed closely by Nakajima Vs. Shingo D-Ring 11/02/12 which I have at ****1/4


----------



## Rah

Seabs said:


> *Juventud Guerrera vs Zema Ion - X Project 19.02.2012*
> _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG9MP0N6Klo
> 
> Not quite a MOTYC but almost there. *Probably would have been if it didn't have fucking Sami Callihan doing a run in for the finish*. Juvi looks as super as ever and his offence is incredible. It's a handheld recording and Juvi does a dive and lands right by the guy recording it which was super. Some sweet spots in the crowd on the chairs. Ion looks decent and has some flashy moves that he hits well. Match cuts here and there but I'm certain you never miss anything of note. Not quite great but really fucking good and well worth watching for 10 minutes._


And this was the alternative in creating the draw in the Casas/Panther match. People may have hated the double pin in that match, but interference always leaves a sourer taste in the fans' mouths.

It sort of worked in the context, though, as Sami Callihan & Samuray del Sol needed the heat for their main event match later on and the Ion/Guerrera feud had to carry on to a cabellera y cabellera match at a later date - which may give you the MotY you were hoping for. Though I'd hate to see Juvie lose his hair...


----------



## milkman7

I think a Sami Callihan run-in would make every match better.


----------



## Bubz

milkman7 said:


> I think a Sami Callihan run-in would make every match better.


C'mon man lol.

Glad to see Naito/Okada getting the love it deserves. Amazing match.


----------



## asdf0501

Casas vs Panther is currently the Feud of the year and if the result of the Hair Match is a build up to a decisive title match that really could be a MOTD candidate and make explode all the fucking universe



milkman7 said:


> Casas is currently the best worker in the world, in my opinion...


I was in this bandwagon until i saw El Hijo Del Santo kicking asses again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4AGdO4cGcA

My current MOTY.


----------



## milkman7

Yeah, I've been meaning to watch that match. If it's actually better than Casas/Panther hair vs hair, I am in for a treat.


----------



## kimino

Okada vs Naito
La Sombra vs Volador Jr. (fantasticamania day 2)
Casas vs panther


----------



## seabs

*Jerry Lawler, Derrick King & Frankie Tucker vs Pokerface & LA Hustlers - MCW 03.03.2012*
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCagk72y6m4

This was really fucking great. It's easy to look and think it's the Jerry Lawler show with 5 other local guys and in a way it is but the locals are really great in their own right too. Lawler steals the show and he's crazy good in it. King is a super babyface worker. Tucker is the outlier but he's basically a non factor in the match anyway. Then the heel team are really great and they're the ones that really make this more than the Lawler show. Faces get a long shine segment to start off and it's great. King looks good on offence and the heels are super stooges for them. Then Lawler comes in and the match really lifts off. Lawler's every bit as super as you'd expect him to be and the heels bump really well of his great punches. So much fun when Lawler was just throwing punches everywhere. They do the whole "I'm a good guy really, shake my hand" shtick once and it almost backfires on Lawler but he's JERRY LAWLER so he turns it back around. Then the other Hustler tries and gives him a fair shake. They follow that up with him giving Lawler a slow but clean break in the corner and Lawler gives him this great slap and has the happiest reaction to a slap ever. King plays FIP and he's really brilliant in that role. Heels lay a great beating on him too. No super limb work based control segment but they do a great job just pummelling on him and King's selling makes it really great. The audio's great on the video and you can hear everything Lawler says on the apron which is super because Lawler talking on the apron is better than most of the stuff that most modern workers do IN the ring. Lawler comes in off the hot tag and is super once again. Finish is super when Lawler goes for the piledriver on one of the Hustlers only for Pokerface to come in and make the save so Lawler just shrugs and sets Pokerface up for the pilerdriver anyway. Super spot to finish on and summed the match up nicely. Well worked and tons of fun. Felt like a really great old school Memphis 6 man. Post match stuff with Pokerface's retirement was the cherry on the cake. US MOTY right now for me._

******


----------



## Rah

Watched it a few days ago.

This match is possibly the best example to use in the defence against the use of excessive video cuts/editing. It totally killed the match for me and seemed to somehow make the heels come off cornier than they were. LA Hustlers were a great backdrop to Pokerface's lead heel role, though, and I must admit I didn't expect them to be decent, let alone good The faces were fine, but aside from Lawler, it's only the heel trio that I can still remember a few days later.

This isn't great technical wrestling, but it was never meant to be. This is Mid-South Rasslin' at some of its best - a very enjoyable, fun match with a lot on the line for Pokerface. It's a pity the crowd were more interested in heckling and getting themselves on camera than they were for Pokerface's final moments in a wrestling ring, but so be it. He's a tremendously sound worker and definitely befitting of a proper send-off on a bigger stage in front of a more respecting audience. He really has that "appeal" that would fit into any major promotion and its a pity it went mostly unnoticed.

If this was pro-shot I'm not sure how close my rating would have been to Seabs but because of the shoddy editing I didn't feel as involved as I'd have liked and settled on a 3.5+. If it was in full and sans poor camera work I'd probably go just shy of **** for what it did achieve, though. None of these guys' fault at all, so I'm going to give it the benefit of the doubt and make an exception here. Pokerface deserves it, dammit!

*Rating:* 4-


----------



## milkman7

I agree with Rah, I tried to watch it because I love Jerry Lawler. I had to shut it off about ten minutes into it. The cuts were driving me mad.


----------



## New Blood

Since I've seen very little new wrestling last year, I finally decided I wanted to give this year a shot but unfortunately since MU has been shutdown and looks like Seabs is no longer uploading, I guess I'll just stick to WWE and lucha this year or whatever Dean posts on the DVDVR board.


----------



## EmbassyForever

FCW House Shows:
Antonio Cesaro vs Kassius Ohno vs Bo Rotundo - ***

Oh, and this is awesome. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR4XCZFMxzc
!


----------



## Rah

New Blood said:


> Since I've seen very little new wrestling last year, I finally decided I wanted to give this year a shot but unfortunately since MU has been shutdown and looks like Seabs is no longer uploading, I guess I'll just stick to WWE and lucha this year or whatever Dean posts on the DVDVR board.


Dailymotion and Youtube are your friend. Everything I've watched is there. 

*Virus/Arkangel De La Muerte vs Fuego/Valiente - CMLL 2/21/12*





I'm not sure if I'm as enthusiastic for this match as others but this did have some very good moments dispersed in it. Outside of the Arkangel/Fuego sequence, at the onset, this match didn't fall from it's perching with Virus/Valiente making up for the slightly off start with their great chemistry.

The finishing sequences to each fall worked fine and, outside of a few gripes in the second, the caidas came across as wholly sound. The Rudo shenanigans were a nice touch, and a great platform for the Valiente comeback at the end of the match. Good platform for all men involved and especially for the seemingly slower and lethargic Arkangel who countered his inability to keep up with the high-flying offence by, well, knocking the crud out of the faces and just simply keeping them grounded.

*Rating:* 4-

*El Hijo del Santo y Villano IV Vs El Hijo del Solitario y Ángel Blanco Jr. (TXT 25/02/2012)*
Part 1 Part 2 Part 3​
If you're wanting less humanity and co-operation then this is the Lucha match you need to watch - forget the Terry/Che match from the same month, too. This was a nasty, blood-filled brawl with as much disregard for having an aesthetically pleasing match as the wrestlers did for passing on Hepatitis-C to each other.

The heel work was great, with the Rudos really stepping into their own in this match serving a viciously sadistic beating onto Santo and Villano for most of the match - with Villano returning the favour with a sickening repeat chairspot. Just some amazing Topes and selling from the faces and a very, very well timed finishing spot.

That spot, damn. I loved how they just countered Santo's classic rolling senton (/Tope) with a brutal chairshot. Someone is going to die in the next iteration of this feud, mark my words. Jeez. 

Not as good as the Casas/Panther Aspuestas bout but an easy second for Lucha MotY.
*Rating:* 4.25


----------



## Punkhead

*Rush y Terrible vs Marco Corleone y Ultimo Guerrero* CMLL 2012.03.03
***3/4


----------



## djmathers1207

Victory Road 2012

Hardy vs. Angle ***3/4

Not as great as their No Surrender match a couple of years ago


----------



## geraldinhio

djmathers1207 said:


> Victory Road 2012
> 
> Hardy vs. Angle ***3/4
> 
> *Not as great as their No Surrender match a couple of years ago*




I'm know I'm staying well away from this anyway.


----------



## smitlick

People really can't criticise Sami Callihan after watching the complete shits that was that Angle/Hardy match a few years back.


----------



## Chismo

djmathers1207 said:


> Victory Road 2012
> 
> Hardy vs. Angle ***3/4
> 
> Not as great as their No Surrender match a couple of years ago


Actually, this match is miles better than their No Surrender match. Better and smarter wrestling. Sure, the NS match was a chaotic clusterfuck with (arguably) higher entertaining value (in trashy sense of word), but the Victory Road has much more quality.


----------



## Rah

*gets ready the flame-suit*

*Sami Callihan Vs DJ Hyde (CZW 13th Anniversary 11/02/12)*​
This may not sit well with a majority of the IWC - noting the two men involved, the promotion as well as the Ultraviolent stipulation, but if this match proves anything it's that the majority can be so wholly wrong. 

This perhaps won't hold a candle in a Global MotY listing but as far as American Indy matches go this was certainly something to watch. Simple in structure and execution yet solid in result. I'm glad they focused more on a mat-based styled brawling after their quite brutal arena rampage at the start of the match as it showed just how under-rated these two talents are. Is Hyde 100% capable 100% of the time? I haven't watched enough matches of his to comment, but for the most part in this match he was strong in his offence and believable in his dominaiton of Calli so I'd chalk up "in the right conditions" next to his name.

Great spots, some decent selling and sense in the brutality is what made this match good. It didn't stick to its stipulation for namesake but rather drove home the violence in a more philosophical, "I hate you" way as opposed to the CZW staple usage of light-tubes etc. The crowd chanted for blood about 5 minutes in but never got any, and despite this, grew even louder in their recognition of Sami and the match itself. The end finish is a bit over-used in wrestling, today, but it at least had place in the match's dynamic and gave some reasoning for Cole's run-in earlier in the match. 

Not a complete blow-away, as I said, but a big enough eye-opener for me as I didnt expect for this to be as good as it was. Honourable MotYC.

*Rating:* 3.75+


----------



## Bubz

This review contains SPOILERS for the end of the match 

*Suwama vs Seiya Sanada - 2/3 Falls Match (AJPW 04/03/12)*
Ok, off the bat I'm going to say that I didn't know this was a 2/3 falls match when I put it on. Anyway, I really liked this match, it had a simple yet effective story that worked brilliantly. The match starts with Sanada the young underdog gaining the advantage with his quickness with armdrags and that sort of thing, but once it turns into a test of strength, it's all downhill for Sanada. Suwama gets the advantage and just dominates completely. He hits a brutal short arm lariat that Sanada sells like the damn plague as it hits his jaw and Suwama then just goes after the face.

There was a spot I loved that showed just how dominant and more powerful Suwama is, when Sanada goes for a comeback and hits the springboard dropkick, only for Suwama to just stumble and hit a regular dropkick that sends him flying. The match was full of great spots like that, with Suwama showing his dominance and veteran skills, such as Sanada making comebacks with lots of forearms and Suwama just swotting him away with one huge chop. The first fall ends with a backdrop suplex after Suwama had just completely dominated thw whole thing, and I thought that was the end of the match so it seemed very anti climatic, but then I looked at the time and it wasn't even half way through so I figured it out. Then I realised this could get really good.

The second fall is more of the same, with Sanada trying to get back into the match only to get shot right back down instantly. He eventually gets his comeback going when his forearms finally work and he pretty much knocks Suwama out with them. He tries all of his big moves, but Suwama won't be beaten. Suwama then gains the advantage again, he hits a couple backdrop drivers, but Sanada is the one this time showing his heart and he will not die. He takes ALL of Suwamas big moves, he just keeps on coming and he even no sells like 3 backdrop suplexes and it works with the story of the match. Suwama hits two more backdrop drivers and this time Sanada is not moving, but he still kicks out! He kicks out of the Last Ride! Suwama can't believe it, so he picks him up and looks as if he is going for something huge to end it, by this point I had no idea what the hell else he could hit for the win, but he simply takes a page out of Sanadas book and uses a cradle pin for the win! He realised Sanada would not be beaten by MOVEZ, so he surprised him with a CRADLE PIN.

That was awesome. I loved the simple story in this match, the veteran vs the newcomer, Sanada will not die! Great story and very well executed by both men with a particularly great performance from Sanada.
*****1/4*

Seabs has been raving about Sanada for a while now if I'm not mistaken, and this was the first match that made me see what he has to offer properly.


----------



## Chismo

God, I love SUWAMA. He was like really good in 2008-2010, but he fucking exploded in 2011, and he's probably in Top 3 Puro Heavyweights. Amazing wrestler, he's great in storytelling, setting up strategies and pacing.


----------



## Rah

Seabs also had this to say about the match when I posted it in the Puro thread:


Seabs said:


> *Starts off great with the potential to be a MOTYC but it just falls totally flat. Booking was bad to have it just go 2 falls. Sanada selling the fuck out of that head shot was awesome and set the match up nicely but the 2nd fall dragged and Sanada never got to make a super comeback and they lost the crowd.*




I agree a lot with Seabs (except for the 2 falls bit). I was actually surprised when I saw this on Puroresu Spirit's recommended list, tbh. Like I said in the other thread, I was torn watching in how to call it.

I'm not sure if I'd ever go _that_ high for it, but I suppose it might get better with a second viewing. Sanada's pretty solid, though, and Suwama is Suwama. It shouldn't be mediocre, and it wasn't. Just I'm not sure how much of a MotYC it could be.

Glad you liked the hell out of it, though.


----------



## Bubz

To be honest it wouldn't surprise me if not many people liked it as much as me but I really did like it. I actually liked it going 2 falls because IMO it got the story over better with Suwama just being that dominant (he is the former champ after all) and Sanada being the 'new guy'. I thought the second fall is where it really got good though.

And I agree with JoeRulz, Suwama has been very impressive with what I've seen from 2011 and the start of this year.


----------



## seabs

*Man watch their match from last year if you enjoyed that one that much.*


----------



## Bubz

I will do. Do you have a link to it at all?


----------



## seabs

*The link I posted before still works. Either check my Megapost or search Suwama Sanada into Puro Media.*


----------



## Raven*

1. Kazuchika Okada versus Tetsuya Naitō- New Japan's 40th anniversary event.
2. Steen versus Jimmy Jacobs - ROH 10th Anniversary Show.
3. CM Punk versus Daniel Bryan - Raw 1/30/12.
4. Kazuchika Okada versus Hiroshi Tanahashi- The New Beginning.
5. Smackdown Elimination Chamber.

My top five matches of the year so far.


----------



## Bubz

*Morishima vs Marufuji NOAH 18/3*
Not really a MOTYC but I thought it was really good despite it being quite sloppy in a few parts. I can't stand Marufuji matches for the most part but his offense worked here as it was the only way he could take the bigger man down. He still managed to annoy me with his over use of superkicks but his selling of Morishimas moves was good, especially the lariats. ****1/2*

Also wish there was subtitles so I could know what Morishima said after the match.


----------



## Rah

I was somewhat interested in watching that, but what is the time length of the match? I saw Cagematch put it down as 12m but the video seems to be 30m long. Did you also manage to see the Akiyama match before it, by any chance? Just like to know if it's worth my time.

As for the superkick spamming, I've noticed quite a bit of NOAH (or perhaps, rather, their juniours) going towards more of an American Indy/Thigh-SLAPZ~! style of wrestling, tbh. Not that I'm particularly perturbed by it, though.

I've been giving this some thought, what would your reactions be to me starting a "2012 Honourable MotYC" thread? I'm guilty of this, too, but as a MotY thread I'd imagine it to rather be concise and limited to, say, a match that takes a slot in our Top 10 (or you'd think would remain in that position by year end). I'd just think it would keep this thread concise and easier for people to gauge what are each others' top matches - where we're currently at page 37 only a quarter way through the year. I realise we have separate Lucha/Puro/Indy threads for match recommendations but for the convenience of it I'd suggest a new thread, anyway.

That said, what is everyone's top 5/10, so far?


----------



## Noah Mark

Traumas I & II vs Cerebro Maligno & Rey Krimen-3/19/12 AULL. The Traumas put on a mat clinic and both their opponents especially Krimen went toe to toe with them. I hear too many people raving about the Briscoe's & Wrestling's Greatest Tag Teams being the best tag teams in the world which is Ludicrous! Right now the Traumas are the best tag team in the world and if you dont believe me watch the match!


----------



## Bubz

Rah said:


> I was somewhat interested in watching that, but what is the time length of the match? I saw Cagematch put it down as 12m but the video seems to be 30m long. Did you also manage to see the Akiyama match before it, by any chance? Just like to know if it's worth my time.
> 
> As for the superkick spamming, I've noticed quite a bit of NOAH (or perhaps, rather, their juniours) going towards more of an American Indy/Thigh-SLAPZ~! style of wrestling, tbh. Not that I'm particularly perturbed by it, though.
> 
> I've been giving this some thought, what would your reactions be to me starting a "2012 Honourable MotYC" thread? I'm guilty of this, too, but as a MotY thread I'd imagine it to rather be concise and limited to, say, a match that takes a slot in our Top 10 (or you'd think would remain in that position by year end). I'd just think it would keep this thread concise and easier for people to gauge what are each others' top matches - where we're currently at page 37 only a quarter way through the year. I realise we have separate Lucha/Puro/Indy threads for match recommendations but for the convenience of it I'd suggest a new thread, anyway.
> 
> That said, what is everyone's top 5/10, so far?


Yeah the match was kept really short, around the 10 minute mark and it was a lot better for it. Having it go their usual main event length would have been bloody awful.

Marufuji was one of the first people I ever saw doing the superkick spamming thing, and as I was pretty young then I thought it was awesome lol. I remember him doing it back in like 2006 or something.

I'll get around to watching the tag later on, I'm hoping Akiyama and Go can carry it through.

Not sure on the thread tbh, could be useful but I would predict most people would just post in this one anyway with their lower end matches or whatever we want to call them.

Heres my list so far, I'll just give my top 10...

Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito (NJPW 04/03) ****1/2
Daisuke Sekimoto vs Suwama (AJPW 02/01) ****1/4
Suwama vs Seiya Sanada 2/3 Falls (AJPW 04/03) ****1/4
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki (NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI) ****1/4
Katsuhiko Nakajima vs SHINGO (D-Ring 11/2) ****1/4
Go Shiozaki vs Takeshi Morishima (NOAH 22/01) ****1/4
Finlay vs Tajiri (SMASH 19/02) ****
Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs Akebono & Ryuto Hama (BJW 02/01) ****
Bad Intentions vs Tenzan & Kojima (NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI) ****
NRC vs Apollo 55 (NJPW The New Beginning) ****

So yeah, nothing from America that high up, but I do have the two Punk/Bryan matches and Hero/Elgin from Homecoming somewhere further down the list at **** too.


----------



## jawbreaker

I still don't think I've watched anything from 2012 bar that one ROH iPPV which didn't have anything MOTYC worthy on it. Will probably check out all the shit Bubz posted later because our tastes are generally along the same lines.


----------



## Chismo

My MOTYCs (I make lists for each company, it's more fair and it's easier):

*TNA*: Austin Aries vs. Alex Shelley (Against All Odds) ***1/2
*ROH*: Team Ambition vs. Adam Cole & Eddie Edwards (10th Anniversary Event) ***3/4
*WWE*: not sure about this, Punk/Bryan I, I guess? ***3/4
*EVOLVE*: Chuck Taylor & Rich Swann vs. Super Smash Brothers (EVOLVE 10: A Tribute To The Arena) ****
*DGUSA*: PAC vs. Akira Tozawa (Open The Golden Gate) ****1/2
*AJPW*: Yuji Nagata vs. Masayuki Kono (3/20) ****1/4
*NJPW*: Kazuchika Okada vs. Tetsuya Naito (The New Beginning) ****3/4 (MOTY)
*NOAH*: Go Shiozaki vs. Takeshi Morishima (1/22) ****1/4
*D-Ring*: Katsuhiko Nakajima vs. SHINGO (2/11) ****1/4
*SMASH*: Fit Finlay vs. TAJIRI (SMASH 25) ****1/4
*PWG*: Kevin Steen, Super Dragon & Akira Tozawa vs. El Generico, PAC & Masato Yoshino (KRR III) ***3/4
*CHIKARA*: Mike Quackenbush vs. Green Ant (The Thirteenth Hat) ***1/4
*Zero-One*: Kohei Saito vs. Daisuke Sekimoto (1/1) ***3/4

Sadly, I don't follow BJW and CZW. Or European feds. Or smaller Indys.


----------



## seabs

Rah said:


> I've been giving this some thought, what would your reactions be to me starting a "2012 Honourable MotYC" thread? I'm guilty of this, too, but as a MotY thread I'd imagine it to rather be concise and limited to, say, a match that takes a slot in our Top 10 (or you'd think would remain in that position by year end). I'd just think it would keep this thread concise and easier for people to gauge what are each others' top matches - where we're currently at page 37 only a quarter way through the year. I realise we have separate Lucha/Puro/Indy threads for match recommendations but for the convenience of it I'd suggest a new thread, anyway.


*Everyone uses it more of a recommend great matches from 2012 thread rather than legit MOTYC's anyway so no need for another thread which would basically be the same.*


----------



## Blacksford

I really don't see the appeal in that Naito vs Okada match. Why did you all enjoy it so much?


----------



## Bubz

Because it had a great story, awesome leg work, awesome selling, an incredible finishing stetch and two great performances, IMO the best performance in either guys career. It was just a brilliant match and would be in my top 5 at least from last year too let alone the first quater of this year.


----------



## Chismo

*SUWAMA vs. Seiya Sanada (AJPW, 3/4/2012)*

Great 2/3 falls match. The storytelling was very nice with SUWAMA being a tough badass against young Sanada. This was basically 25 minutes of SUWAMA making the man out of him, and it worked perfectly. Very effective storytelling, with great wrestling from both, especially from SUWAMA. Sanada's underdog sequences were good too. God I love SUWAMA, he's so fucking awesome, he just keeps getting better and better. Very smart wrestler, easily one of the BITW currently. Plus, he reminds me on Takayama - another huge plus in my book. Great match, but not "epic" enough to reach the ****+ territory.
*Rating: ***3/4*


----------



## Lane

Kevin Steen vs Jimmy jacobs ROH 10th anniversary
***1/2
A really fun little brawl I could get behind. The story telling in this only added alot more meaning to this then just a wild match.

O'Reilly & Richards vs Cole & Edwards
****
This match..just WOW. I expected a typical Eddie vs Davey style match with Cole and Kyle only geting in some minor offense but I was wrong. Davey and Eddie took a backseat to their rawr fighting spirit style to toss out some great wrestling and Cole and Kyle stepd it up big time and killed it with just about everything they pulled out and came off looking like two of the fastest rising stars in wrestling.


----------



## mk92071

Since DG doesn't get much love, I'll throw out a match for once.

Shingo vs. Akira Tozawa - No Ropes No DQ Match
****


----------



## Rah

Seabs said:


> *Everyone uses it more of a recommend great matches from 2012 thread rather than legit MOTYC's anyway so no need for another thread which would basically be the same.*


I suppose so; perhaps I'm just used to how other boards structure their Best Ofs. 

No biggie at all, I just wondered where the matches everyone recommends ends up on their lists. Though now that JoeRulz and Bubz stated their top matches I can more or less work on that from here on out in future recommendations.

I'll put in my Top 10 later tonight. I have the AJPW 20/03/2012 show to go through and I have a feeling one or two matches may just squeeze their way in there.


----------



## Bubz

mk92071 said:


> Since DG doesn't get much love, I'll throw out a match for once.
> 
> Shingo vs. Akira Tozawa - No Ropes No DQ Match
> ****


I thought this was awful tbh. I just wanted it to end. I wasn't a fan of their match last year either though wich a lot of people liked a lot. 



Rah said:


> I'll put in my Top 10 later tonight. *I have the AJPW 20/03/2012 show to go through and I have a feeling one or two matches may just squeeze their way in there.*


Yeah I'm definitely hoping the cage deathmatch delivers if thats the show it's on.


----------



## Chismo

*Yuji Nagata vs. Masayuki Kono (AJPW, 3/20/2012)*

One of the stiffest matches I've ever seen. It was a simple, yet super effective Cage Match. The story was told through sick, stiff and decapitating blows. Kono is usually average, but he brought his A-game for this match. Nagata is great, of course, and his comeback near the end was well done. I liked the drama in the end, but it was not about whos's gonna win, it was about how much punishment can Kono take. This was excellent, and my new All Japan MOTY.
*Rating: ****1/4*


----------



## Bubz

Is there anything else from the show near that level? Theres about 5 matches I'm interested in from it.


----------



## Rah

I've only read great things about the show as a whole ("Show of the Year" on DVDR etc) but, if you can wait, I'll have a "review" of 5 of the 9 matches out by tomorrow night (matches # 4,5,6,7 and 9).


----------



## Chismo

*Jun Akiyama vs. Keiji Mutoh (AJPW, 3/20/2012)*

Two bald motherfuckers going at it! Great Triple Crown match that felt big and important. I liked how they went full force ballistic from the moment the bell rang. Akiyama almost captured the win right away, so Mutoh needed to cut him off with his Dragon Screws in order to prevent Akiyama from using his knees. Akiyama's selling was mostly good, I like how they told the story that Mutoh worked Akiyama's leg, but not for long/hard enough to shut down his knee arsenal. Great strategies and counters from both, some really smart shit right there. Akiyama is great (old news), and Mutoh worked very well here, he showed he can still deliver, even with doing the most simple things. Another great title defense for Akiyama, his reign is rocking. I liked the post match stuff with SUWAMA and KENSO. I guess SUWAMA is ready for a rematch.
*Rating: ***3/4*


----------



## Bubz

I'm going to work my way through that show tonight I think. Looking forward to Akiyama/Mutoh actually, never thought I would say that about a Mutoh match these days.


----------



## Rah

Copy and pasted from the Puro thread. All matches are from the 20/03/2012 AJPW event.

4) *Daisuke Sekimoto & Yuji Okabayashi Vs Suwama & Takumi Soya*
Another smartly wrestled match with Okabayashimoto (I know, that didn't work) going for the youngling and weakening him down as opposed to going toe-to-toe with the better wrestler in Suwama. The hot tag was made, however, and the veteran laid all sorts of offence on the champs.

In singles the champs wouldn't have stood a chance against Suwama but their combined strength ('Yashi is a beast, period) and tag team experience helped them pull out the win against the challengers. A good showing for all men and hopefully the start for Soya to pick up steam. I managed to see a match of his the other day and was going to go for a joke about "soya" being a cheap imitation but he seemingly impressed me. I wouldn't say he's anything but average at this point, but another few years or so of training and working out in the gym and I'm sure he'll look and wrestle legit.

Until then he can play the rookie in peril with Suwama and I'll have fun watching it. One of the better Seki/Okabayashi matches this year, too.
*Rating:* 4

5) *Kenny Omega Vs Shuji Kondo*
Great, great, GREAT finishing stretch! 

The match started a bit slower than I'd have hoped, and the Kondo moments fell a bit flat but, ffs, Kenny can do little wrong in his work. He's not the smoothest or most technical worker going, but his mannerisms and entertainment factor are second-to-none, imo - a rich man's Dolph Ziggler. 

The slowness of the start, I suppose, was mostly due to building the latter bits of the match with Kenny taking a vicious neck bump to the ring apron which he sold solidly for the rest of the match. I loved how he reciprocated the spot to Kondo's own head and neck giving him time to massage down his injury and spray some muscle freeze onto his throbbing neck. Kenny pretending it to be deodrant and spraying his dick was epic, too.

I'd have prefered a better offence from Kondo but the good definitely outshone the bad here - especially a finishing stretch that made me actually think Kondo would win. That, Kenny's antics, a springboard super-powerbomb and witnessing Omega deliver a fantastic Croyt's Wrath to the much larger Kondo make this match a definite watch from this show. 

Probably won't be as well liked by others but dammit if I didn't love this.
*Rating:* 4+

6) *Yuji Nagata Vs Masayuki kono*
A bit of an underwhelming ending. I loved how they ended the match with a KO but I just felt disappointed for some reason - almost as if I had hyped this match up too much.

The exploder suplex and just about everything else definitely didn't live up to the hype, either. Still, it could have been worse. A lot worse. Kono underperformed, imo, but it still had enough going for it not to fall below what many fans thought this was capable of.
*Rating:* 4+​


----------



## antoniomare007

Rah said:


> Another smartly wrestled match with Okabayashimoto (I know, that didn't work)


lol. At least you tried, it shocks me that Big Japan still hasn't given a name to their best and most successful tag team. Oh well...


----------



## Concrete

Rah. I watched those matches today and those were the same exact ratings I gave those matches. I didn't watch any of the other matches but from what I can tell it already has to be up for event of the year. Those three matches were all great, none of them touching Naito vs Okada for me but still 4 matches that I was not disappointed by.


----------



## Chismo

*Daisuke Sekimoto & Yuji Okabayashi vs. Team Destruction (AJPW, 3/20/2012)*

Really, really liked this. The more I watch Daiskay and Yuji, the more I fucking love them. Now I feel bad for not catching more time for their 2011 tags, but I'm getting there. One helluva match this was, IMO. SUWAMA and Soya tried, but Daiskay and Yuji are just too experienced tag team dogs. I liked Soya's underdog surviving. MOTYC.
*Rating: *****


*Kenny Omega vs. Shuji Kondo (AJPW, 3/20/2012)*

What a match! Omega's heel work was top notch here, he's really great. His role is similar to Aries' in TNA - dandy, cocky heel, but he can back it up inside the ring. He made this match, and he made Kondo's role important. All Kondo had to do is not to botch his comeback moves, and the result is one excellent match, IMO. Great nearfalls in this match too. MOTYC.
*Rating: *****


----------



## Bubz

*AJPW 20/3/12*

*Daisuke Sekimoto & Yuji Okabayashi vs Suwama & Takumi Soya*
Awesome tag match!! Yeah this was pretty much a sprint, but man I was marking out towards the end big style. Soya is pretty much the sacrificial lamb here to Sekimoto and Okabayashi. Everyone played their parts well but again it's Daisuke who comes out looking the best for me. The man is a machine. Okabayashi and Suwama were great too. The finishing stretch was great and I thought it was over on more than three occasions. I also loved how strong they make Suwama look.
******

*Kenny Omega vs Shuji Kondo*
This was maybe my favourite Omega heel performance to date. He was brilliant and his heel stuff just gets better every time. Kondo is good but I've never been that impressed by him and it was the same here. The crowd really wanted him to win though so that was good. Omega does have some big faults though, his matches always go too overkill for me, but here it was a good amount apart from Kondo kicking out of his main finisher twice, the one kickout was awesome and even though I thought it was over when he hit his second one, I would have rather it ended there instead of him kicking out again. But the stertch of the match after that was really great so I was glad it did continue in the end.
******

*Yuji Nagata vs Masayuki Kono - Steel Cage match*
I thought the first half of the match was just good but slightly dull, but in the second half it got REALLY good. Once Nagata hit the exploder off the top rope the match had this important, epic feel to it. There wasn't a lot apart from forearms, knees, headbutts and strikes, but it worked because this wasn't a wrestling match, this was a fight. The finish was pretty amazing.
******

*Jun Akiyama vs Keiji Mutoh*
Wow, I loved this. A simple yet effective story with Mutoh going after the leg to stop Akiyama using his knees. Akiyama is probably in my top 3 guys in Japan and I believe he can carry most people to a good/great match, but Mutoh worked within his limitations and delivered as well. Yeah he only used the Dragon Screw and Shining Wizards, but it didn't matter to me, he made it work. I'm going to admit I marked out every time he got up from an exploder and hit the Shining Wizard, usually a spot like that would have annoyed the hell out of me (I think it happened 3 times in a row) but here it just felt right and added to the match. I also liked the finishing stretch a lot, maybe Mutoh kicked out of too much stuff and I wasn't a fan of Akiyama completely no selling the Moonsault but apart from that they definitely made this match way better than it should have been and I really liked it even with the limited Mutoh offense and this felt like a big time match all the way through.
******

Yeah...Awesome show!


----------



## Cactus

*Kenny Omega vs Shuji Kondo
AJPW; 2012/03/20*

_It's my first time seeing Omega and I'm a fan already. His heel work is amazing and he just comes off as a right arse to the crowd. Not to mention his epic moveset. There's nothing too in-depth I can really say why I loved this match other than it was just a great face versus heel back-and-forth match filled with plenty of sick moves._

_*Rating: *****_


----------



## Matt_Yoda

*CIMA vs. PAC for the Open The Dream Gate Championship
DragonGate Infinity #252*

Holy hot damn where do I start. Fantastic back and forth between these guys and CIMA did a great job working over PAC's leg and PAC sold well by not doing the little things because of his leg. The ending stretch was insane and had me believing that PAC was legit going to walk away with the Open The Dream Gate title; crazy ass near falls that had me jumping out of my seat like a 5 year old thanks to the stablemates and the crowd going apeshit and playing into every fall. Great finish and PAC looked like he about to die after the match I can't remember where CIMA might've knocked him loopy as he was bleeding from the mouth. As much as I enjoyed CIMA vs. Susumu, this match tops that easily.

****1/2


----------



## MF83

Mutoh vs. Akiyama is minute for minute the best match that has taken place in 2012.


----------



## Bubz

MF83 said:


> Mutoh vs. Akiyama is minute for minute the best match that has taken place in 2012.


I'm guessing you haven't seen Naito/Okada


----------



## MF83

I actually just may be the biggest New Japan mark on the western web actually lol. I say minute for minute because there were chunks in Naito/Okada that went on too long/were time wasters. I think Okada/Tanahashi was the better match anyway. Everything mattered in this one and no time was wasted. Two stellar performances with recurring themes and selling that mattered in the end. Many layers,a terrific beginning, middle and end. Felt like a mid 2000s NOAH match would, all satisfying, epic and logical. Very few holes. But seeing it at the end of that show may alter opinions because of what came before it. I just watched the isolated Triple Crown match first so I had no show burnout or that prejudice that certain shows give for later matches, ya know? Anyway, I'm just another opinion so carry on.


----------



## Bubz

I definitely see what your saying about Mutoh/Akiyama, there were moments of brilliance in there and it was great fun to watch, but it was just lacking that extra something to take it over the edge for me. Definitely two great performances though.


----------



## seancarleton77

Akiyama vs. Mutoh blows Naito vs. Rainmaker out of the water.


----------



## Chismo

Akiyama/Mutoh was really, really great (***3/4), but no way it's better than Tanahashi/MiSu (****1/4), Tanahashi/Okada (****1/4), Okada/Naito (****3/4) and Nakajima/SHINGO (****1/4). Hell, it was not even the MOTN, because the All Asia tag, Omega/Kondo and Nagata/Kono were truly excellent matches (****+). But shit, it just tells you how awesome the whole show was, with three MOTYCs and Akiyama/Mutoh.


----------



## Bubz

JoeRulz said:


> Akiyama/Mutoh was really, really great (***3/4), but no way it's better than Tanahashi/Misu (****1/4), Tanahashi/Okada (****1/4), Okada/Naito (****3/4) and Nakajima/SHINGO (****1/4). Hell, it was not even the MOTN, because the All Asia tag, Omega/Kondo and Nagata/Kono were truly excellent matches (****+). But shit, it just tells you how awesome the whole show was, with three MOTYCs and Akiyama/Mutoh.


I liked it more than Tana/Okada but I definitely egree with the other matches. I also have Go/Morishima and Sekimoto/Suwama ahead of it.

Motoh/Akiyama was definitely my favourite match on that show though.


----------



## Chismo

Uh, oh... Totally forgot about Go/Shima. I have it at ****1/4. Epic slugfest. I alson need to catch up with Dragon Gate Japan, I'm pretty sure there is a **** here and there. CIMA/PAC and Jimmys/TakaYAMA matches sound really promising.


----------



## Rah

JoeRulz, that show re-instated my love for Dragon Gate.

They finally got rid of the shitty nonsense and focused on what brought them to the dance - great high-flying. Just get all three matches from the show and you won't be disappointed. The first is flashy and hellishly fun, the second was very good (despite not truly liking the ending too much) and the final was great. Matt_Yoda had a great review for it.

Screw over-booked, over-done, over-boring No-Ropes crappiness. If DG can continue doing stuff like this, then I'll be happy.



enlightenedone9 said:


> Rah. I watched those matches today and those were the same exact ratings I gave those matches. I didn't watch any of the other matches but from what I can tell it already has to be up for event of the year. Those three matches were all great, none of them touching Naito vs Okada for me but still 4 matches that I was not disappointed by.


I agree, nothing has touched Okada/Naito levels yet, imo.


----------



## antoniomare007

*Yoshihito Sasaki vs Sami Callihan - BJW 26/3/12*

God damn is Sami annoying. But at the same time, the guy is good enough for me to want to see someone beat the living shit out of him and not just skip his matches. This match was very good, they did more than enough in only 11 minutes with a lot of STIFF chops, elbows and spit (yeah...). Sami kicked out one too many times for my liking but the final sequence was pretty great overall and leaved me wanting to see a tie-breaker between this guys. Haven't seen the match in England, but this was the best out of their other 3 encounters.

***3/4-****

*Daisuke Sekimoto vs Bad Bones - BJW 26/3/12* 

Fucking LOVED Bones doing the "YES!" gimmick and Korakuen going along with him (even chanting NO! to Daisuke's chops and elbows), the look of disgust on Sekimoto's face and then him just throwing Bones to the first rows of chairs was freaking priceless :lmao. Really simple and fun match.

***1/2-***3/4
*
Shinya Ishikawa, Shinobu & Takumi Tsukamoto vs Yuji Okabayashi, Kazuki Hashimoto & Masashi Otani - BJW 26/3/12*

The usual Strong BJ fun. Kazuki steps up as Shinobu's new enemy, Otani and Tsukamoto work well together and we might have something interesting in our hands with Ishikawa and Yuji...there are a couple of botches, but it's still very enjoyable.

***1/2

*Yoshihito Sasaki vs Daisuke Sekimoto - BJW 26/3/12*

Brilliant, just brilliant. I was disappointed with Daisuke's work in the Bad Bones match (specially his control section) but man did the guy stepped up in the final. And Yoshihiko....oh man, his work as the underdog was fucking beautiful. Sekimoto gains control in the first minute and proceeds to work over Sasaki's neck, from then on it's all about Yoshihito working from behind trying to overcome Daisuke's brilliant work over his neck. Both men executed their roles to perfection and Korakuen understood what this was all about. The final minutes are outstanding and if you are not rooting for Yoshihito then you don't have a fucking soul. GO WATCH THIS!! 

****1/2


----------



## antoniomare007

*Yoshihito Sasaki vs Sami Callihan - BJW 26/3/12*

God damn is Sami annoying. But at the same time, the guy is good enough for me to want to see someone beat the living shit out of him and not just skip his matches. This match was very good, they did more than enough in only 11 minutes with a lot of STIFF chops, elbows and spit (yeah...). Sami kicked out one too many times for my liking but the final sequence was pretty great overall and leaved me wanting to see a tie-breaker between this guys. Haven't seen the match in England, but this was the best out of their other 3 encounters.

***3/4-****

*Daisuke Sekimoto vs Bad Bones - BJW 26/3/12*

Fucking LOVED Bones doing the "YES!" gimmick and Korakuen going along with him (even chanting NO! to Daisuke's chops and elbows), the look of disgust on Sekimoto's face and then him just throwing Bones to the first rows of chairs was freaking priceless :lmao. Really simple and fun match.

***1/2

*Shinya Ishikawa, Shinobu & Takumi Tsukamoto vs Yuji Okabayashi, Kazuki Hashimoto & Masashi Otani - BJW 26/3/1*2

The usual Strong BJ fun. Kazuki steps up as Shinobu's new enemy, Otani and Tsukamoto work well together and we might have something interesting in our hands with Ishikawa and Yuji...there are a couple of botches, but it's still very enjoyable.

***1/2
*
Yoshihito Sasaki vs Daisuke Sekimoto - BJW 26/3/12
*
Brilliant, just brilliant. I was disappointed with Daisuke's work in the Bad Bones match (specially his control section) but man did the guy stepped up in the final. And Yoshihiko....oh man, his work as the underdog was fucking beautiful. Sekimoto gains control in the first minute and proceeds to work over Sasaki's neck, from then on it's all about Yoshihito working from behind trying to overcome Daisuke's brilliant work over his neck. Both men executed their roles to perfection and Korakuen understood what this was all about. The final minutes are outstanding and if you are not rooting for Yoshihito then you don't have a fucking soul. GO WATCH THIS!!

****1/2


----------



## flag sabbath

Aw crap - like there wasn't enough wrestling to watch already this weekend.


----------



## Cactus

I echo the love for the Callihan versus Sasaki match. Epic hard hitting brawl with plenty of Callihan antics that everyone seems to hate for whatever reason. The no-selling at the end was a bit overdone but it's hard to deny it was fucking cool at the time. ******


----------



## PERFECTSHOW

Surprised to see no love for Tyson Kidd vs. Michael McGillicutty, from 03/21/2012 NXT REDEMPTION. Honestly, its the best TV match I have seen so far this year. I liked Punk/Bryan, but felt that the RAW match lacked that something "special". Kidd/McGillicutty was breakneck fast, but also had a great story, one of the better feuds going in WWE wrestling wise so far in 2012. ***3/4-****


----------



## ViolenceIsGolden

Richards vs. Elgin from the other night was the best match I've seen since Cena/Punk MITB. Star making match for Michael Elgin. The crowd wanted him to win and Nigel McGuiness went insane during this match. Meltzer is giving it 5 stars so in the next few days when the next newsletter for post Wrestlemania weekend comes out there'll probably be a thread on it.

I also saw the BJW Korakuen Hall show. Nothing near that level but a really awesome big man match on there. Think one of the wrestlers was Daisuke Skimoto and the other guy was a American wrestler who kind of resembled Pitbull #1.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35

*WWE Wrestlemania 28*
_Undertaker vs. Triple H_ - ****1/2

Great stuff. Storytelling at it's finest. Last year's was a touch better, but not taking anything away from this one.


----------



## joebro2000

I guess Ill be the first to nominate Undertaker vs HHH for MOTY. Incredibly awesome, drama filled match. Well paced, well booked!! 20-0 !!


----------



## seancarleton77

Unlike last year's match that was incredible! ****1/4-****1/2 for Triple H vs. Undertaker from Wrestlemania XXVIII.


----------



## Rickey

HHH-Taker WM28. Enjoyed it more than the last 2 WM matches from them but 1 thing that helped the match out was HBK's acting. Not a "technical masterpiece" and yeah it was pretty dramatic but I enjoyed it. Made up for how meh the show had been before the match.


----------



## topper1

***1/2 for HIAC felt more like an angle half the time then a match.


----------



## ViolenceIsGolden

Hell in a Cell was a great match but nowhere close to 5 stars. By far the best on a abysmal show so far with the two other good matches left thank god.


----------



## djmathers1207

Jericho vs. Punk- ****1/4


----------



## Rickey

Punk/Jericho WM28-I think a lot of people's expectation might have been too high going into the match. Started off slow, really enjoyed the ending stretch of the match.


----------



## topper1

Really hard to rate Y2J vs Punk the crowd was downright awful for the match, 78k people and I could have heard a damn pin drop for 99% of the match.

***3/4


----------



## Wrestlinfan35

*WWE Wrestlemania 28*
_CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho_ - ****

I did have a high expectation, but it was still great. The final sequence was pretty amazing. Good job from both men.


----------



## ViolenceIsGolden

Jericho vs. Punk was easily better than Undertaker and Triple H. I enjoyed both matches but I'm a wrestling purist.


----------



## septurum

Punk vs Jericho- ****

Taker vs HHH- **** 1/4

Rock vs Cena- *** 1/2


----------



## Rickey

Also enjoyed Rock/Cena. Overall I'd say those are the matches to look out for if you're thinking of buying the dvd or watching the show onliner. 

HHH/Taker, Punk/Jericho and Rock/Cena.


----------



## Sephiroth

Wrestlemania XXVIII
*Hell In A Cell*: The Undertaker vs. Triple H (Shawn Michaels as Special Guest Referee) - ***** 1/2*
*WWE Title*: CM Punk(c) vs. Chris Jericho - ******
The Rock vs. John Cena - ******


----------



## Corey

Fuck star ratings, I enjoyed every second of Punk/Jericho. Brilliant chemistry, awesome counters, and an amazing finishing stretch. Pure definition of why I enjoy professional wrestling. 

Taker/HHH was a great thrill ride, honestly can't say I enjoyed it as much as last year's though. They basically just did a match inside of a HIAC without really using it at all. All the nearfalls got a little crazy but it's a fun watch. BRUTAL chair shots. My dad and I went nuts when Taker hit Trips with one late in the match.

Rock/Cena exceeded my expectations for sure. Main event worthy. But... WHERE'S BROCK!?


----------



## Wrestlinfan35

So finally:

Triple H vs. Undertaker - ****1/2
CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - ****
The Rock vs. John Cena - ***3/4


----------



## wildpegasus

Richards vs Elgin was incredible. I'm watched more wrestling than almost anyone on the planet and all I gotta say -- no words can describe it. Go and watch it.

Really enjoyed Rock vs Cena too at Mania.


----------



## dk4life

Masaaki Mochizuki vs. Akira Tozawa - Open the Ultimate Gate 2012 - ****1/4
Davey Richards vs. Eddie Edwards vs. Roderick Strong - ROH World Championship Triple Threat - Showdown in the Sun Day 1 - ****1/4
Kevin Steen vs El Generico - Last man standing - Showdown in the Sun Day 1 - ****1/2
Davey Richards vs. Michael Elgin - ROH World Championship - Showdown in the Sun Day 2 - ****1/2
PAC, Ricochet & Masaaki Mochizki vs. Low Ki, Akira Tozawa, & BxB Hulk - Mercury Rising 2012 - ****1/4

5 great matches of the mania weekend, didn't like Mania too much, still had fun with it, only rated Jericho/Punk and Triple HHH/Undertaker around 4 starts, not MOTYC's


----------



## antoniomare007

Nothing on Wrestlemania touched Yoshihito vs Daisuke but Taker vs HHH and Punk vs Jericho deserve a mention on this thread.

The ME was pretty damn fun and I was surprised at the ending so that's a plus.


----------



## Coffey

Nothing on Wrestlemania touched anything. The best match of the night was about ****¾*


----------



## bigbuxxx

topper1 said:


> ***1/2 for HIAC felt more like an angle half the time then a match.


this. was a garbage match much like last years. and much like last years after the recency bias goes away people will come down with their ratings realizing it wasn't good at all.

punk/jericho was pretty damn good but ruined by the dq stip.


----------



## jawbreaker

missed the end of Punk/Jericho, thought it started real slow but got pretty good with Jericho's back work and some counters were pretty nice.

thought HHH/Taker would be great, really enjoyed their match last year, but thought this was really bad. missed a few minutes in the... middle? was there a middle? dunno. it had parts of a good story, but never really put it together.


----------



## MF83

Punk/Jericho at least ****1/2 Rock/Cena ****1/4 Taker/HHH ****


----------



## Cactus

*Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin
ROH Showdown in the Sun Night 2; 2012/03/31*

_It has it's flaws and I think Meltzer giving it the full five stars is fucking insane, but considering this match has two guys that I don't care about at all and I ended up loving near enough every second of the match, that's got to be enough to get a nomination. They tried to play up Elgin's size and strength against the smaller size of Richards. There was sick moment whether or not Davey could hit a top rope suplex because of the sheer size of Elgin, this would of been a really cool moment if you know... DAVEY DIDN'T FUCKING RELEASE GERMAN ELGIN WITH EASE FIVE MINUTES EARLIER! Ergh. Aside from that and your typical ROH main event finishing stretch no-selling and near-falls overkill, that's all the bad stuff I can say about this match. The match was filled with emotion, mostly thanks to commentator Nigel McGuinness really getting into the match and rooting for Elgin which really set the mood for plenty of high-stake spots and awesome (and some bad) near-falls. US MOTY behind Punk/Jericho. _

_*Rating: ****1/4*_


----------



## Saint Dick

Fuck all of you who didn't like HHH/Taker.


----------



## TelkEvolon

Man, Callihan vs Sasaki brought a TON more tension than Rock vs Cena.

F*ckin' amateurs!


----------



## TelkEvolon

Taker vs Triple H was everything WrestleMania should be, a huge spectacle, an epic clash.

Amazing stuff, so much drama.


----------



## EmbassyForever

TelkEvolon said:


> Man, Callihan vs Sasaki brought a TON more tension than Rock vs Cena.
> 
> F*ckin' amateurs!


+1
Don't saw this btw, but god, THAT WAS AWFUL.


----------



## Old_Skool

*WrestleMania 28*

Triple H/Taker - ****
Punk/Jericho - ***1/2
Cena/Rock - ***


----------



## geraldinhio

*Wrestlemania 28*

_HHH vs The Undertaker_- A gripping , hard hitting war that delivered . Drama was great and both men (and Shawn) put in a very good preformance. A few minor flaws , it didn't even need the cell at all did it? Still a great match. ****1/2

_Chris Jericho vs CM Punk_- Nice back and fourth match with some innvoative spots and counters. It just felt like it was missing something. Just seemed to fall flat in places , the dead crowd didn't help though. ****

_John Cena vs The Rock _- I didn't know what to expect going into this really. We got a hot crowd , a good big match feel but the match it's self just lacked a lot of substance. Wasn't bad by any means , but feel way short of what the match should of been . It should of been a spectacle . ***3/4


----------



## Ali Dia

Taker v Triple H ****1/2. thought this was so well thought out and exectuted. It was story driven but I enjoyed it immensely. I thought last years was great but this was clearly better.

Punk v Jericho ***1/2. started great but it fell away a bit after that. The counters down the stretch whilst you could see coming were still well done. I expected these two to probably to under deliver and it was pretty much what I expected.

Cena v Rock ***1/4. Again started well, but the structure fell apart when Cena began wrestling more like the baby face when clearly the crowd weren't going to cheer him. Rock having the better of it for a sustained period in the middle of the match threw the structure of the match and as such the crowd weren't into the Rock on offense during that period. The finish was unexpected with an out for Cena.


----------



## Coffey

Ownage™;11238422 said:


> Fuck all of you who didn't like HHH/Taker.


What was your favorite part? The slow, plodding beginning? The fact the Cell didn't matter at all? All the constant camera zooms so you could get POV facial expressions and hear the wrestlers yelling at each other? The group hug at the end? Shawn Michaels' terrible B-movie horror acting? Triple H's cheesy Castle Greyskull playset entrance?

It was WWE main event masturbation at its finest.


----------



## flag sabbath

Yes, the Cell was a MacGuffin. And yes, the post-match mutual respect love-in jarred irreconcilably with all the sledgehammer & chair shots. But that's the WWE for you & if you expected anything significantly different, you were probably wasting your time & money on Mania. In pure sports entertainment terms Taker vs. HHH was a masterpiece borne out by the fever pitch crowd reactions.


----------



## Coffey

I think the false finish after the Sweet Chin Music/Pedigree combo was the height of that match. It did also have some decent psychology in making a lot of homages to the previous bout last year. That being said, it was more about the story than the wrestling & I'm just not a fan of that. I mean, I like a story being told in the ring as much as the next guy, but I don't literally need the wrestlers yelling the story to me as if I'm too stupid to get it unless they say it verbally.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Walk-In said:


> What was your favorite part? The slow, plodding beginning? The fact the Cell didn't matter at all? All the constant camera zooms so you could get POV facial expressions and hear the wrestlers yelling at each other? The group hug at the end? Shawn Michaels' terrible B-movie horror acting? Triple H's cheesy Castle Greyskull playset entrance?
> 
> It was WWE main event masturbation at its finest.


What he said..


----------



## peachchaos

End of an Era - ****1/2
Punk/Jericho - ****+
Rock/Cena - ****


----------



## Kid Kablam

Walk-In said:


> I think the false finish after the Sweet Chin Music/Pedigree combo was the height of that match. It did also have some decent psychology in making a lot of homages to the previous bout last year. That being said, it was more about the story than the wrestling & I'm just not a fan of that. I mean, I like a story being told in the ring as much as the next guy, but I don't literally need the wrestlers yelling the story to me as if I'm too stupid to get it unless they say it verbally.


Agreed. There was much to like about it, and it was brutal in several places, but the less-is-more approach would have worked wonders. I liked that Michaels wanted the match finished when HHH began with the chair shots, but it got old really quickly.

Taker/HHH strikes me the same way a lot of Oscar Contenders do: You feel great coming out of it, and you rave, but then you notice the flaws once you start to think about it. The big emotional moments were a bit too obvious, there was a lot of obvious characterization etc. At the end of it, you feel the same way you felt about "American Beauty" or "Ordinary People."

I really don't think HHH/Taker, will age well.


----------



## Bubz

*Wrestlemania 28*

*HHH vs Taker*
I'm not sure of my rating, but I enjoyed the flying fuck out of this. That's all I have to say at the minute. Very hard match to put a rating on. How the fuck can anyone say this wasn't as good as last years match (which was actually shit)??? Explain why last years match was better because this had much better action and a much better story was told throughout the match. Yes it had it's flaws, but fuck me if I didn't love watching it.

*Punk vs Jericho*
Great match. A little dissapointing, but still great, which shows how high my expectations were. Very good chemistry and awesome counters. Jericho's back work was great. I thought the added stip and story (which only came in to play at the start) really took away from the start of the match but it soon picked up. ******

*Cena vs Rock*
I fucking loved this too. The match itself had some structuring issues, there was a portion that could have been cut out, but for the majority it was fucking great to watch. Rocky delivered, the crowd was awesome, Cena was superb with his facial expressions as well as being in control for the first half of the match. Awesome near falls too, and the crossbody counter in to the AA was fucking great and I marked big time at several points in the match. No, not the greatest match ever, but a very good match and damn if the big time feel, crowd and false finishes didn't suck me in to this.
******

I'm going to watch the SITS shows tomorrow. I'm going in with very low expectations because I watched the first half of Night 1 and it was dull as hell. I'm looking forward to this Davey/Elgin match but I honestly can't fathom a current Davey Richards ROH match rated anywhere near ****1/2 stars.


----------



## topper1

BUBZ said:


> I'm looking forward to this Davey/Elgin match but I honestly can't fathom a current Davey Richards ROH match rated anywhere near ****1/2 stars.


****1/2

Far better then any of the crap I watched at WM which is a shame. Crowd was awful at WM imo.


----------



## Bubz

I thought the crowd was great for Taker/HHH and Cena/Rock, but they were god awful for Punk/Jericho which was a damn shame, definitely would have made a really good match even better.

Also, the Punk/Henry match that just happened on RAW was a very good tv match.


----------



## antoniomare007

fuck Davey vs Elgin. Daisuke vs Yoshihito is were it's at.


----------



## Bubz

Was that the BJ tournament final??


----------



## Last Chancery

antoniomare007 said:


> fuck Davey vs Elgin. Daisuke vs Yoshihito is were it's at.


Can't enjoy them both?


----------



## antoniomare007

BUBZ said:


> Was that the BJ tournament final??


damn right, that match was beautiful pro wrestling. And the show was awesome too, 5 matches worth watching.


----------



## topper1

BUBZ said:


> I thought the crowd was great for Taker/HHH and Cena/Rock, but they were god awful for Punk/Jericho which was a damn shame, definitely would have made a really good match even better.


I guess I just expected more from the crowd during Rock vs Cena, I thought for sure it would reach the levels of Cena vs Punk 1 or Rock vs Hogan but not even close.


----------



## MF83

Watched the Elgin vs. Richards. DRAGON SUPLEX OFF THE TOP FOLLOWED UP BY ANKLE LOCK PSYCHOLOGY~! BEYOND poor selling. Overkill! BORING FIRST TEN MINUTES! Shitty transitions... yet still so fucking exciting by the end. I don't know, ****?


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I'm behind on my Lucha like a shithead and I'm really not looking to watch much puro of any kind these days unless it gets absolutely insane pimping by people I trust to be close to my tastes in what they perceive as great. Watched a fair bit of WWE and liked a lot of stuff but not really been compelled to talk about it, but I caught Raw on Youtube this morning and stumbled upon my current MOTY (which probably will change once I watch 4 Lucha matches which have had everyone talking about them).


*CM Punk(c) v Mark Henry, WWE Championship, RAW 02/04/2012*

Yeah this was an excellent match and without doubt the best match I've seen so far this year (behind on Lucha atm) and was a brilliant Sting/Vader esque match. Punk was brilliant selling the wear and tear of last night's match from the outset and was great selling it during his offence, specifically the Macho Man Elbow drop which worked as not only a great spot to finally down Henry (something they expertly built to all match) but also in coming across as a big spot that may have cost Punk long term. His strikes and offence got so much better the longer the match went on and the crowd being with him every step of the way continued the great desperation theme of Punk fighting with everything he had to escape this improbable situation.

Henry himself was phenomenal and just illustrated why he was so god damn brilliant last year, his trashtalking was as good as its ever been (Did I say you could get up, you sit back down) and was incredible character work to generate heat and build sympathy for Punk and he worked some damn right nasty cut off spots with his brute strength. He was equally as stiff and violent as he ever is and served as the perfect ass kicker to break Punk down with every bit of offence he had and his selling was just picture perfect in giving the fans enough room to buy that Punk could hurt the big man whilst in no way damaging his credibility as the dominating ass kicker. The build throughout the match to Punk finally taking down Henry with the running knee was super and the sort of long term payoff that will always pop a crowd.

However what really put this match over the top was the booking for the finish. So many times WWE does these piss poor DQ/countout finishes that can kill a match's heat in the blink of an eye but here they pulled off an incredibly organic finish which crucially protected both men as Punk couldn't beat Henry without weakening him whilst a title change was obviously out of the question. Punk gradually wearing down Henry with the strikes and slowly softening him up for the knee strikes in the corner and subsequent bulldog was great and Henry's counter was a fitting desperation spot for the big man who was finally on the ropes for the first time in the match. Punk's bump looked nasty and believeable and in the context of the match served as an acceptable bump on which he'd struggle to make a 10 count & crucially Henry taking the time to sell the barrage of strikes to his head which had left him dazed ensured he didn't look like an idiot for letting Punk be counted out, but rather his body was still recovering from Punk's comeback and didn't recuperate in time to throw Punk back in the ring.

So aye, brilliant selling and cut off spots, a long build to a satisfying comeback which popped the crowd and some detailed and insightful booking to protect both men and leave a rematch down the line as something necessary, for once an excellent job by WWE and this was better than anything on the Wrestlemania card.

*****1/4*


Also I really don't want to watch Richards/Elgin at all but I suppose I'll get around to it eventually. The thought of them actually having an invested crowd gives me hope and the talk of there being a clear dynamic in trying to make Elgin look better by the end of the match excites me because I love a good underdog match....but I know how Davey and the current ROH main event style is designed to 'build' people and its usually something I hate with a passion. Can't say the talk of top rope Dragon Suplexes, Emerald Frosions being no sold and random ankle lock set ups have me giving the match a fair chance before its even begun but hey I've watched worse matches in my time.

(Plus Jawbreaker seemed to not hate it and me and him seem to generally have similar opinions)


----------



## Bubz

Yeah, Punk/Henry was a fucking great match, especially for tv, and it got a really good amount of time too. Great story and psychology with two great performances.

Also, Segunda you should check out Okada vs Naito. Best match of the year by far imo.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I've seen both and never been greatly impressed by either, and I can't lie modern day puro does very little for me at the top of the card. Its getting to the point where they only have to do a couple of needless strike exchanges or that insufferable 'Wrestler A gets backdropped by Wrestler B but gets up and immediately Backdrops Wrestler B' spot and I'm completely taken out of the match. If you can promise me either of the above didn't occur (or was at least presented in a less offensive manner) then I'll add it to the matches I have to catch up on as I did see it getting discussed on a few boards which tend to be very anti-puro in this day and age....and whilst the match was hardly getting MOTY praise I did see less hate for it than some of the other Puro epics of the past couple of years.


----------



## antoniomare007

Segunda, if you don't like Sekimoto vs Sasaki I'll ban myself for 14 days. It's not your typical Sekimoto match either so any preconception you have about the guy or his matches shouldn't come into place.


----------



## Bubz

I know exactly what you mean about Okada and Naito, I was never really impressed with anything I had seen of either of them, and I wasn't even going to watch the match until I saw some great reviews. Both really impressed me. I don't think theres any exchanges like that in the match, it's got a great story and great psychology and I was seriously surprised with it since I was sure it was going to be one of those matches were the limb work and control segments were completely forgotten about in the finishing stretch but it wasn't. Everything made sense to me. Naito could have sold the neck a little more in places, but he was so good at working over Okadas leg. On my first watch I had no issues at all with it apart from Naito not throwing a hand to his neck or something to sell it better often enough after it had been worked on. I definitely recommend watching it, I know your feelings on modern puro so I wouldn't recommend it if I didn't think there was a lot in there you would like. I'm sure you might find something in there you dislike but at the least it's a very good match.


----------



## FITZ

I thought Undertaker/Triple H was an incredible live experience. Don't really care about what rating it gets but it was unlike anything I've ever seen. But from my seat I didn't have to do deal with all the close up of the facials and hearing them yell at each other so that probably helped. 

Honesty thought Punk/Jericho was good but nothing too incredible.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

antoniomare007 said:


> Segunda, if you don't like Sekimoto vs Sasaki I'll ban myself for 14 days. It's not your typical Sekimoto match either so any preconception you have about the guy or his matches shouldn't come into place.


I don't mind Sekimoto, occasionally his love affair with strike exchanges can take me out of a match but I liked the tags involving Hama and Akebono especially. He's very good in that environment given they usually play up his power and here he encountered much bigger men than himself. Can't say I think he's as good when he faces largely smaller guys but that's usually as much to do with his opponent than Sekimoto himself. Consider this added to the match pile.



BUBZ said:


> I know exactly what you mean about Okada and Naito, I was never really impressed with anything I had seen of either of them, and I wasn't even going to watch the match until I saw some great reviews. Both really impressed me. I don't think theres any exchanges like that in the match, it's got a great story and great psychology and I was seriously surprised with it since I was sure it was going to be one of those matches were the limb work and control segments were completely forgotten about in the finishing stretch but it wasn't. Everything made sense to me. Naito could have sold the neck a little more in places, but he was so good at working over Okadas leg. On my first watch I had no issues at all with it apart from Naito not throwing a hand to his neck or something to sell it better often enough after it had been worked on. I definitely recommend watching it, I know your feelings on modern puro so I wouldn't recommend it if I didn't think there was a lot in there you would like. I'm sure you might find something in there you dislike but at the least it's a very good match.


Thanks for the brief overview, a lot of that was echoed in some reviews I saw at other boards so I'll take it on board when watching. Can't say for sure when I'll get round to viewing it but I shall eventually.



Cage-Taylor Phitz said:


> I thought Undertaker/Triple H was an incredible live experience. Don't really care about what rating it gets but it was unlike anything I've ever seen. But from my seat I didn't have to do deal with all the close up of the facials and hearing them yell at each other so that probably helped.


I've always considered both HHH matches to be great in person where the near falls can hook you much more, but I definitely feel they lack the ability to hold up on a rewatch compared to the Michaels matches (26 especially) as there's just not enough behind some of the engrossing near falls to love about them compared to the HBK series where Taker in particular was incredible with his selling and facial expressions.


----------



## 777

Been trying to get my hands on Elgin/Richards for a couple days but my computer keeps taking a shit in some manner each time I try, will attempt again today though.

Just thought I'd be one of the few to put Jericho/Punk as my number one Mania match. Thought the stipulation made the first segment interesting with Jericho in the Foleyesque position of letting Punk beat on him trying to entice the DQ. 
I've seen a lot of posts claiming the crowd was dead, but I got the impression that the audience, like me, were watching the 'wrestling' intently, more akin to a Japanese crowd, which if my impressions are correct is a feat in itself given the boisterous nature of the fans. 
Because I expected a lot from this match, I in turn expected to be let down with the result, however when the match was finished I found myself very pleased with what I had just witnessed.

Second favorite MOTY, just behind Panther/Casas.


----------



## flag sabbath

777 is spot on about the crowd reactions for Punk vs. Jericho - the fans were definitely paying attention & got more into it as the match wore on. That said, I didn't think it was anything special. Punk & Jericho are two guys I struggle to suspend disbelief with 'cos their styles are often clunky & contrived; plus Jericho has negative charisma nowadays.

Segunda - I reckon you'll be pleasantly surprised with Okada vs. Naito. It's a first-class example of using wrestling to tell a story. Not so sure you'll dig Sekimoto vs. Sasaki though. It's a great match with a superbly executed underdog element, but it's still based around them relentlessly battering the hell out of each other.


----------



## Rickey

*Punk/Henry-3/2/2012 Raw.* Wanted to post it last night but servers were crashing because of Lesnar.  Anyway very good big man vs. little man match. Henry's a great heel with his adlibs in the ring. 

"YOU MOVE WHEN I SAY YOU MOVE!" 

"I OWN YOU! YOU HEAR ME? I OWN YOU!"


----------



## BKKsoulcity

MF83 said:


> Watched the Elgin vs. Richards. DRAGON SUPLEX OFF THE TOP FOLLOWED UP BY ANKLE LOCK PSYCHOLOGY~! BEYOND poor selling. Overkill! BORING FIRST TEN MINUTES! Shitty transitions... yet still so fucking exciting by the end. I don't know, ****?


Read my mind!! **** 1/4 for me


----------



## Cactus

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xo8dw0_06-fujinami-nagai-vs-fujiwara-ishikawa-legend-01-08-12_sport

*Segunda*, I'd think you'll love this. I know you have a soft spot for Fujiwara and possibly Fujinami too if I remember correctly. Not too mention it's only 10 minutes long too. None of the backdrop nonsense too. It's a solid four star match in my book.


----------



## ywall2breakerj

*****+* for Jericho Punk. Not sure exactly how many quarters I'd give it but i wouldn't go higher than *****1/2*. Stupid crowd popping for everything in the HHH/Taker match to the point they couldn't do shit in this one...

I'd have to watch HHH/Taker again but I don't get it. They did LESS finisher shit than they did last year...and that doesn't make sense. Not only did I not buy into all the nearfalls except the SCM/Pedigree one but I also didn't get the story. I mean, I get it....but.....REALLY!? This is maybe Taker's last match at WM, and last year Triple H pretty much killed him and STILL failed making it seem like it's absolutely imposibble to end the streak.
I'm sorry but after that kind of match this one felt unneeded and pointless. They should've done what they did last year this year and vice versa, hell the last years match would've probably fit the cell more than this years.
No rating for this one obviusly.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Cactus said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xo8dw0_06-fujinami-nagai-vs-fujiwara-ishikawa-legend-01-08-12_sport
> 
> *Segunda*, I'd think you'll love this. I know you have a soft spot for Fujiwara and possibly Fujinami too if I remember correctly. Not too mention it's only 10 minutes long too. None of the backdrop nonsense too. It's a solid four star match in my book.


Watched this, I liked parts of it but didn't find it to be a particularly strong outing. Fujiwara was very good tormenting that Nagai bloke with the Fujiwara armbar and then that swank arm trap counter with his right leg. Also dug him putting an end to a strike exchange with a hell of a slap to the face. Thought Ishikawa was the 2nd best guy in the match with his sequence with Fujinami being the highlight of the match and his enziguri at the end being as stiff and disgusting as ever. Thought the eventual ankle lock counter to Nagai's continuous kicks was a good payoff spot to a sub theme throughout the match where Nagai would keep control with his kicks. Still you could tell age was affecting some of their sequences notably Fujiwara and Nagai's first interaction and I would have preferred Ishikawa/Fujinami going longer than their pairing off did. Finish was also a tad weak IMO. Watchable and everything but I never found it to be above 'good', though Fujiwara's 'oh fuck' facial expression before tagging out was golden. God bless that man and his wonderful facial expressions.


----------



## Bubz

I can't rate the HIAC or Rock/Cena matches. I'm just not going to even try because while they both had massive flaws, there was something about them that still had me marking the fuck out because of the entire spectacle and massiveness (word?) of them. I enjoyed the hell out of both of them but they weren't great matches by any means.

However....

*ROH Showdown In The Sun Night Two - Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin*
Just goes to show how much a control segment, a HOT crowd and a good commentator add to a match, because this was fucking awesome because of those things, as well as an awesome finishing stretch. This was the best ROH match in fuck knows how long. I loved Davey starting it off fast by taking it to Elgin straight away with strikes and a dive. I loved even more the transition in to the Elgin control segment with Davey really trying to end it early by going for something crazy only for it to backfire and allow Elgin the advantage. Davey going for comebacks only to be cut off all the time by the power of Elgin was so great and really fucking fresh for a ROH main event match.

Davey did eventually get a comeback going which was the only part of the match I could have done without. They went in to the typical 'You strike me, I strike you' Davey Richards match mode for a little bit, but thankfully it didn't last long. There was also a stupid top rope Dragon Suplex spot immediately followed up by an Ankle Lock that was completely ridiculous and made no sense, admittedly the suplex itself looked fucking awesome and was the only real huge spot in the match. After that portion though it got pretty fucking amazing.

Some great near falls for Elgin that had me believing it was over even though I knew the result. I thought Davey was superb in this match for the most part, playing the champ who really wanted this thing to be over because Elgin seemed unbeatable (no pun intended). Davey's facial expression when Elgin walked through his kicks was so great. The finishing stretch was awesome as tits and I was losing my shit along with Nigel who really added something else to the match, he was absolutely godly on commentary. What a man. The submission trading was done very well, Elgin rolling through with the crossface to keep Davey away from the ropes was a great nearfall, but the spinning powerbomb was just something else. Again, Davey was great here as he legit seemed dead at points. Then we got the final stages of the match with Davey kicking the shit out of Elgin, only for Elgin to display some serious fighting spirit, and thats what it came across as. It didn't come across as just plain old no-selling, but it came off as maybe one of the best fighting spirit spots ROH has done for years. When Elgin hulked up and spit in Daveys face I marked the fuck out along with Nigel and the awesome crowd. The best ROH crowd for a match in years possibly. I have to say if the crowd wasn't that hot for the entire last half of the match it would have been nowhere near as good, but that wasn't the case and I don't care what anyone says, a hot crowd really does add a lot to a match. There are flaws here such as the pointless middle portion of about 3-5 minutes, but this is great stuff for the majority and the best match from the US this year not to mention the best ROH and Davey Richards matches for a long time. Elgin was very impressive but imo Davey made this match and thats something I didn't think I would hear myself say again.
*****1/4*


----------



## antoniomare007

Final Battle 11' is Davey style at it's worst. His match vs Elgin (or vs Shingo) is his style at it's "best".


----------



## PERFECTSHOW

Segunda Caida said:


> I'm behind on my Lucha like a shithead and I'm really not looking to watch much puro of any kind these days unless it gets absolutely insane pimping by people I trust to be close to my tastes in what they perceive as great. Watched a fair bit of WWE and liked a lot of stuff but not really been compelled to talk about it, but I caught Raw on Youtube this morning and stumbled upon my current MOTY (which probably will change once I watch 4 Lucha matches which have had everyone talking about them).
> 
> 
> *CM Punk(c) v Mark Henry, WWE Championship, RAW 02/04/2012*
> 
> Yeah this was an excellent match and without doubt the best match I've seen so far this year (behind on Lucha atm) and was a brilliant Sting/Vader esque match. Punk was brilliant selling the wear and tear of last night's match from the outset and was great selling it during his offence, specifically the Macho Man Elbow drop which worked as not only a great spot to finally down Henry (something they expertly built to all match) but also in coming across as a big spot that may have cost Punk long term. His strikes and offence got so much better the longer the match went on and the crowd being with him every step of the way continued the great desperation theme of Punk fighting with everything he had to escape this improbable situation.
> 
> Henry himself was phenomenal and just illustrated why he was so god damn brilliant last year, his trashtalking was as good as its ever been (Did I say you could get up, you sit back down) and was incredible character work to generate heat and build sympathy for Punk and he worked some damn right nasty cut off spots with his brute strength. He was equally as stiff and violent as he ever is and served as the perfect ass kicker to break Punk down with every bit of offence he had and his selling was just picture perfect in giving the fans enough room to buy that Punk could hurt the big man whilst in no way damaging his credibility as the dominating ass kicker. The build throughout the match to Punk finally taking down Henry with the running knee was super and the sort of long term payoff that will always pop a crowd.
> 
> However what really put this match over the top was the booking for the finish. So many times WWE does these piss poor DQ/countout finishes that can kill a match's heat in the blink of an eye but here they pulled off an incredibly organic finish which crucially protected both men as Punk couldn't beat Henry without weakening him whilst a title change was obviously out of the question. Punk gradually wearing down Henry with the strikes and slowly softening him up for the knee strikes in the corner and subsequent bulldog was great and Henry's counter was a fitting desperation spot for the big man who was finally on the ropes for the first time in the match. Punk's bump looked nasty and believeable and in the context of the match served as an acceptable bump on which he'd struggle to make a 10 count & crucially Henry taking the time to sell the barrage of strikes to his head which had left him dazed ensured he didn't look like an idiot for letting Punk be counted out, but rather his body was still recovering from Punk's comeback and didn't recuperate in time to throw Punk back in the ring.
> 
> So aye, brilliant selling and cut off spots, a long build to a satisfying comeback which popped the crowd and some detailed and insightful booking to protect both men and leave a rematch down the line as something necessary, for once an excellent job by WWE and this was better than anything on the Wrestlemania card.
> 
> *****1/4*
> 
> 
> Also I really don't want to watch Richards/Elgin at all but I suppose I'll get around to it eventually. The thought of them actually having an invested crowd gives me hope and the talk of there being a clear dynamic in trying to make Elgin look better by the end of the match excites me because I love a good underdog match....but I know how Davey and the current ROH main event style is designed to 'build' people and its usually something I hate with a passion. Can't say the talk of top rope Dragon Suplexes, Emerald Frosions being no sold and random ankle lock set ups have me giving the match a fair chance before its even begun but hey I've watched worse matches in my time.
> 
> (Plus Jawbreaker seemed to not hate it and me and him seem to generally have similar opinions)


THIS! Psychology & Storytelling was excellent. Id go ***3/4-****, though I liked the finish, because it lead to something great w/ Jericho, it was still a CO that could have very easily been avoided. Ill have to re-watch this one for closer analysis however, because I was so excited by this when it was happening, I didnt really take notes or anything. RAW MOTY so far, IMO. In terms of WWE TV this year, only the McGillicutty/Kidd match from NXT was better @ **** in terms of overall TV MOTY.


----------



## seancarleton77

Henry vs. Punk = Match of the Year ****1/2


----------



## peachchaos

Agreed. Awesome match. Loved the count out finish, which we see so rarely...only in Mizark Henry matches! His bitch-talking to Punk was probably the best character work we've seen in ring this year outside of Jericho/Punk. They're doing a great job of making Punk the sympathetic face right now. 

Why has no one mentioned the blood that Punk spit out afterwards? And then the ECW-esque segue while Punk's lying there dead into some smack-talking from Johnny and then a really good angle with Jericho. One of the best segments on RAW in a long time, even if the fake bottle was a little hokey. 

Henry vs. Punk ****1/4


----------



## djmathers1207

It probably would be Raw MOTY if it were not for Punk/Bryan


----------



## FITZ

Segunda Caida said:


> I've always considered both HHH matches to be great in person where the near falls can hook you much more, but I definitely feel they lack the ability to hold up on a rewatch compared to the Michaels matches (26 especially) as there's just not enough behind some of the engrossing near falls to love about them compared to the HBK series where Taker in particular was incredible with his selling and facial expressions.


I loved their match at 27 when I watched it again on DVD. I still thought both Shawn/Undertaker matches were better but as the actual wrestling was incredible while the Triple H matches have been all about telling a story in the ring. When Wrestlemania comes out on DVD I'll rewatch and everything and see how it all holds up. Kind of hard for me not to feel nostalgic for the match though as it was probably the best wrestling experience that I can ever remember. There were 78,000 there and 99% of the crowd was standing and marking the fuck out during that match. I saw grown men jumping up and down like children when it was happening. Really hard to forget all of that and look at the match objectively. 

I'll give it a shot but if the story comes across as well on DVD as it did in person I'm probably going to rank it at the top of my MOTYC list and give it a super high rating.


----------



## MF83

Kojima/Naito I rated ****1/2 which is probably a solid **** for most of you. Suzuki/Nagata is around there as well. I really should recalibrate my ever consistent scale...


----------



## Bubz

Suzuki/Nagata sound like something I have to see, and I'm a lot more excited for Naito matches now after his performance in the Okada match.

*BJW 26/3 Strong Climb Final - Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yoshihito Sasaki*
I loved the start with Sekimoto going straight in with his game plan of going after the neck and hitting a backdrop driver. It set the tone for the rest of the match, and Sekimoto was awesome and very methodical going after the neck. I loved Sasaki's first comeback attempt hitting the spear only to sell the neck amazingly allowing Sekimoto to get back up first and continue laying down the law. Again, Sekimoto was so great in this match, I loved how he changed the powerbomb/boston crab combo into an STF so as to go right after the neck again. Sasaki's comeback was well done, but my only problem with the match was that he seemed to forget about his neck in the finishing stretch even though Sekimoto didn't and continued hitting moves all directed at that body part. The actual finish was great with Sasaki throwing everything he had in his striking range and completely laying into Sekimoto who's selling was absolutely incredible. Some of the exchanges were so awesome, I do think the headbutts were way to much though, I mean they were fucking sick and you could clearly hear them legit headbutting eachother. I wish that hadn't had happened, I genuinely couldn't tell if Sekimoto was legit fucked or if his selling was just amazing, but I think and hope it was the latter. Great match though, I just wish Sasaki had sold his neck a lot better in the finishing stertch as it could have elevated this to true greatness, but Sekimoto's performance was legit incredible here.
*****1/4*

Sekimoto is easily front runner for my WOTY so far by the way.


----------



## septurum

I think people are overrating Punk vs Henry a bit seeing as the finish was less than satisfying. I'd give it a solid *** 1/2.


----------



## Bubz

I'm going to re-watch it since when I watched it live, I wasn't expecting anything good to happen because it was a tv match and I was expecting it to be a lot shorter, so I wasn't concentrating much.


----------



## Saint Dick

*Wrestlemania XXVIII*
The Undertaker v Triple H - ****1/4
CM Punk v Chris Jericho - ****



Walk-In said:


> What was your favorite part? The slow, plodding beginning? The fact the Cell didn't matter at all? All the constant camera zooms so you could get POV facial expressions and hear the wrestlers yelling at each other? The group hug at the end? Shawn Michaels' terrible B-movie horror acting? Triple H's cheesy Castle Greyskull playset entrance?
> 
> It was WWE main event masturbation at its finest.


The beginning was slow and plodding, but that was just about the only drawback. The Cell wasn't necessary but it didn't detract from the story so whatever. The camera zooms? Really? Talk about nitpicking. Shawn didn't add much with his acting but his role as referee in conjunction with his relationship with both guys made for good drama and storytelling elements. 

And if you didn't realize I obviously wasn't serious when I said "fuck anybody who didn't like HHH/Taker". Just my way of saying I enjoyed it bro.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

septurum said:


> I think people are overrating Punk vs Henry a bit seeing as the finish was less than satisfying. I'd give it a solid *** 1/2.


For the story and structure of the match they went for there wasn't a better ending they could have done. Punk took too much punishment at Mania and during the Henry match to conclusively beat Henry on that night without damaging Henry, about the only finish they could have worked would have been an out of nowhere rollup from Punk to retain by the skin of his teeth but to me they built so well to him finally weakening Henry that that sort of finish wouldn't have gone over as well.

And of course Henry wasn't winning the belt so they had to find of way of making Punk look good in surviving the beating whilst ensuring Henry didn't win...and the match ended at just the right moment. Punk had finally reeled off some stiff offence that wobbled Henry and had him on the ropes but he was still hurt from the beating and so an over the top rope bump to the floor was enough to put him down for a 10 count. And of course Henry taking the time to sell the kicks and strikes to the head as dazing him ensured he looked like a man who didn't know what city he was in rather than an idiot for letting Punk be counted out. Sets up a future rematch well with Henry having a valid claim that Punk didn't beat him and allows them to work a similar match again with the story there being has Punk got a way to beat Henry.

Really for WWE TV booking this was about as good of a screwy finish as they could have done.


----------



## Concrete

I really need to see Sekimoto vs. Sasaki. Sekimoto has had such an amazing year it is hard to imagine him doing any wrong.


----------



## Bubz

A PPV re-match with no commercials and more time between Punk/Hnery would be fucking amazing to say the least. When you've got two guys who seriously know how to tell a story in the ring like Punk (who can sell better than almost anyone imo) and Henry (who is amazing at character work and cutting off comebacks) you are going to get something great. Surely they will realise how good that match will be with the added story of the RAW match and Punk needing to find a way to overcome Henry. It looks like the Jericho feud will continue for a while though which isn't a bad thing at all.

*Satoshi Kojima vs Tetsuya Naito (NJPW 01/04) New Japan Cup*
Very good match but not great. Naito was impressive going after the leg again, but I've never really been impressed with either guys long term selling and it was the same here especially for Kojima as he was selling the leg really well after Naito had done only one hold on it at the start, and then later in the match when Naito went back to the leg Kojima was just completely no selling it. The finishing stretch was good though with Naito trying to avoid the lariats and getting the win with some pinning combinations which eventually paid off for him. ****3/4*

*Minoru Suzuki vs Yuji Nagata (NJPW 01/04) New Japan Cup*
I mark for MiSu. This is pretty much a slug fest from the get go with Suzuki constantly getting the upper hand. Nagata was hardly ever in control here apart from when he went after the arm for the armbar for about a minute(which I still don't think I've ever seen anyone submit to by the way). MiSu was awesome trying to get the crowd behind Nagata using all kinds of heel tactics to get the advantage. I loved when he took the womans sign from the crowd (who had been taunting him at the start)and screwed it up and stamped on it. He was awesome constantly faking out Nagata too. The strugle for Nagata to hit the explder when MiSU had him in the guillotine was great and the finish was also really unexpected, although slightly anti-climatic. This match was so one sided which I didn't expect but I loved it because MiSu is an awesome heel in control even though he's so small, he always comes off as a legit badass while still using heel tactics like distracting the ref while his mate (can't remember his name) lays in to Nagata on the outside. Really enjoyed this but I was expecting a longer finishing stretch, but I guess thats not really a bad thing and I also really like how MiSu's piledriver is being made to look so strong, I think the only person to kick out recently was Tanahashi at WK. ******


----------



## Groovemachine

My Wrestlemania Weekend ratings:

*The Undertaker vs Triple H [Hell in a Cell] - WWE Wrestlemania XXVIII - ****1/2*

~ I understand the issues others have had with the match, but I absolutely loved the story in this. HBK is so good at conveying emotion, especially on a stage such as Wrestlemania (See: vs Flair, vs Taker I & II), so his role was very important in this I feel. But this had everything I wanted from a 'heavyweight' WWE match; two behemoths throwing everything they had at each other. One of my favourite moments was when both guys were on the mat, and Taker reaches over and grabs a handful of Trip's hair. HHH swats the hand away, but Taker throws the arm back out, grabbing at HHH's armpit. No damage was done, but that was clearly all Undertaker could manage in that given moment, aptly conveying the idea that he didn't want to waste a single moment. Also the Sweet Chin Music-Pedigree nearfall was incredible, EVERYONE bought it. So yeah, I was a massive fan of this match.


HIAC is the only match I've managed to rewatch so far so the following ratings are from a live, in person perspective.

*Pac vs Low Ki - DGUSA Open the Ultimate Gate - ***3/4*

~ First things first, I've gotta admit I was a tad disappointed as I was fully expecting a blow away MOTYC. The match kinda ended before it really hit fifth gear which is a shame because the early technical stuff was very well wrestled, as each man methodically approached the other with a drawn-out feeling out process. They surprisingly 'wrestled' rather than relying on the stiff kicks/high-flying that many thought would take up the bulk of the match; once again Pac shows off his technical wrestling skills which often get overlooked. It's worth checking out anyway - it was building to a GREAT match, but as it is it's just a very good match. My appetite has definitely been whetted for a rematch!


*Johnny Gargano & Chuck Taylor vs Masato Yoshino & Ricochet - DGUSA Open the Ultimate Gate - ****1/4*

~ What a fantastic main event. This was a terrific way to close out the show, especially considering the 1.99 PPV price tag brought in a load of new customers. What they saw was a classic example of a Dragon Gate tag. Sure, it was spotty at times, but there was a fun dynamic between the two teams, and the nearfalls towards the end totally grabbed the crowd every time. The turn had been hinted at for a while now but it still came as a surprise so that helped things too. My favourite tag of the year so far.


*Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin - ROH Showdown in the Sun Night 2 - ****3/4*

~ Elgin has had some very solid encounters during his ROH tenure thus far, but on this night a star was born and his stock has gone through the roof. For this match I became a total mark; I started out firmly in the Richards camp, and as the match progressed I suddenly found myself pleading for Elgin to get the win. Fans could feel a title change in the air. I don't need to say any more about the match than what's already been said by others. Understandably, many will feel the match goes 10 mins too long. I was willing to overlook the slight overkill because with every nearfall and kickout, Elgin was cementing himself as a future ROH main eventer further and further. Do yourself a favour and check it out.


*CM Punk vs Chris Jericho - WWE Wrestlemania XXVIII - ****1/4*

~ The crowd was still suffering burn out after HIAC in the early portion of the match which was a big shame as this got off to a nice start. The crowd finally came alive with the hurracanrana-into-the-Walls-of-Jericho spot, and from there on out it was great. The reversals and chain wrestling were brilliant and kept the ending in question; for much of the closing stretch it could have gone either way. I was sure Jericho was winning the belt after he pulled Punk back into the middle of the ring with the Walls still applied. A very smartly wrestled match, and the emphasis on submissions in this one leaves room for some interesting rematches.


*The Rock vs John Cena - WWE Wrestlemania XXVIII - *****

~I've seen some wildly diverse ratings for this one, and I'm erring on the side of 'great'. What did it for me in this one was the incredibly simple but effective story. Wrestling-wise, Rock and Cena were absolutely equal for about 98% of the match. Then Cena turns into a cocky prick and goes for the People's Elbow to really stick it to the Rock and BOOM, that was the mistake Rocky was waiting for, and he capitalises with the Rock Bottom. For the bulk of it, it was a good match but that finish was perfect in my mind and pushes the rating up.


----------



## flag sabbath

I'd give MiSu vs. Nagata ***1/2 tops. Folks rave about Suzuki's heel tactics, but the crowd was laughing along with him here & the ref distraction routine was half-hearted. When they reset for a stiff slap exchange, the match hit second gear & after a decent near-fall they appeared to be building to something special, but the finish was fairly abrupt.

Mostly agree with Bubz for Naito vs. Kojima, although the exciting home straight lifts it a notch higher for me to ****. Naito's legwork wasn't a patch on his Okada effort - he mostly just used it to slow Kojima up from time to time. But he sold the head & neck damage from an early DDT on the apron really well for the rest of the match.


----------



## SMetalWorld

Undertaker vs. Triple H = **** 1/2
John Cena vs. The Rock = **** 1/4
CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho = ****

Those 3 matches made Wrestlemania 28 great. Overall, I did like and enjoy Wrestlemania 28.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Well apologies guys, but I'm gonna have to be the party pooper on Richards/Elgin.

*Davey Richards v Michael Elgin, ROH World Championship, Showdown In The Sun Night II, 03/31/12*- NO

A really really strange match all around tbh, there was a lot of things I dug in this match: Elgin coming out looking like a legit tough SOB, the running theme of his power being too much for Davey, Richards actually grabbing his back before doing some spots that could be seen as ignoring the limbwork so as to at least show the viewer he was hurt and both men down the stretch doing a great job of exhaustion selling and showing the continuing effects of the match.

Still the pacing and structure really felt off here, Richards' initial flurry was fine even though I thought it sacrificed a feeling out process and went straight into the action and it only lasting a couple of minutes before Elgin took over set the stage for the opening portion of the match dragging. I mean I enjoy the milking of the babyface shine period but this felt like a bad opening, if this was a WWE match with someone like Mysterio you'd expect some speed/power spots to show off the contrast and much of the first 10 minutes seemed like one guy having some brief form of control before a flurry of strikes and the other guy having control. Have to mention as well some of Davey's strikes were bad here, his kicks are generally fine but he can't really pull off convincing forearm strikes that look to have a lot of effect and that's a major problem when you're facing a bigger opponent, its part of why Punk doesn't always make a great face in peril because some of his offence looks really bad against bigger man and can really bring you out of the match. The fisherman suplex on the floor and powerbomb into guardrail combo was an excellent transition spot in theory...but Davey hadn't shined in the opening portion at all really and as a result it never felt like a game changer in the match, especially as the next few minutes seemed to plod a bit with Elgin's control never reaching the heights I expected. He did some nice stuff but here is where you'd expect a total shitkicking of Richards to take place and for them to build and build to the comeback but it never really came. They had some mini strike exchange flurries and then Richards attempted the somersault powerbomb in the corner which led to the Top Rope Dragon Suplex spot.

Now this next bit further irked me, a brilliant spot for Elgin to win over the crowd but executed with a few problems:

a) there was zero build to that sort of spot, it was the sort of spot you'd expect to be one of the last in the match but once Elgin kicked out we had a good 10 minutes of less believable near falls occurring (the eventual finish looking particularly weak). I liked the initial struggle over the spot but again Richards despite looking hurt had still hardly taking the extended workover to build to such an emphatic comeback....and him going straight into an Ankle Lock rather than sell the kickout further annoyed me, especially as Elgin wasn't in the hold long enough to create a believable near fall. 
b) furthermore Elgin hadn't been sufficiently weakened for the spot to feel organic in the match. Had Davey built a flurry of offence and gradually worn Elgin down AND then hit this desperation spot it would have felt so much better. Whilst I find such a move stupid to be kicked out of, had they worked the multiple kicks finish straight afterwards I would have at least enjoyed Elgin looking like a beast and the move essentially being the ending even if it didn't immediately lead to the count. As it was despite turning the crowd up a notch it felt like a wasted spot down the finishing stretch when counters were being traded, though Elgin throughout the match did a great job of looking worn down by the tempo they were working.

Some of the strike exchanges bothered me as they tend to do, again bar the execution looking bad they felt poorly timed in the match although I did like Elgin seemingly winning every one which played into the power story which was constantly recurring in the match. The combo leading into the sitout powerbomb nearfall was terrific and brilliantly timed by Elgin, it helped he'd gradually worn Richards down the entire match and the way they worked him countering Richards' offence into that sick lariat before finally hitting his move was terrific...but the minute Richards kicked out I sort of lost interest because he never really got in a sustained comeback to sufficiently weaken Elgin. 

The powerbomb kickout was super because it felt like a genuine match ender and the culmination of Elgin's offence but Davey had been limited to kicks and a couple of top rope spots as his offence and as a result Elgin never looked to be on the ropes in my opinion. Actual finish also felt quite flat after everything that had been kicked out of beforehand, had they maybe moved certain moves around I'd have dug the finishing run more but as a result it didn't work as well for me.

So aye, there was a lot of things I enjoyed in this match which surprised me but the plodding structure and lack of a clear beginning-middle-end really hurts this match IMO. It felt very your turn my turn in who got onto offence and as a result there was a lack of clear build into the finish, though some of the spots won the crowd over regardless of the pacing and build. Richards' selling was nice though I'd have loved him to have worked his injury into a spot like Elgin did after the repeated ankle locks but what we got was ok, there were a few moments where he'd blow it off to work an exchange but there wasn't a point in the match where I thought he'd truly no sold the earlier work so props to him. I just wasn't really engaged with the opening 2/3rds of the match and with the final finishing run feeling overdone and lacking in placement I was never fully 'hooked'. I can see why the match has its admirers although if I'm being honest it never screamed 'epic' to me at all, like I've never enjoyed the Richards/Edwards matches or Richards/Black but some of the sequences I could at least buy as being awe inspiring that people would look past any structural issues and just be wowed by the wrestling. The pacing and plodding nature here though never even felt to me like the wrestling I was watching was awe-inspring, its certainly better than a lot of other Richards matches I've seen and Elgin looked impressive given my limited viewing of him but as a MOTYC.....I just can't see what made the match so incredible.

A rating would be hard right about now, the actual work wasn't bad but the structure was really off to me and definitely something that with the right tweaking could have lifted the match into something a lot more. I dunno ***3/4-***1/4* for Elgin getting a good showcase, the fans being won over into the finishing stretch, some nice selling of the wear and tear by both men and Nigel's commentary...but with a better beginning and middle this would be pushing a much higher rating.


----------



## Shotakan

Reluctantly giving Naito/Okada ****. I wanted to hate this due to Meltzer fapping all over it, but it was an ultimately good effort from two kids. The ending run was unnecessarily ridiculous, though.


----------



## flag sabbath

Jesus Segunda, did you get all that off of one viewing?


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Yeah, I have a problem with going off the deep end in a review. Funny thing is I tried to keep that one short and it just exploded into some wall of text, I usually try and cover all my bases so people know where I stand rather than just saying 'couldn't get into it' and leave it at that.

And yet I still procrastinate to hell when it comes to doing Uni assignments, the fuck is wrong with me?


----------



## flag sabbath

Segunda Caida said:


> Yeah, I have a problem with going off the deep end in a review. Funny thing is I tried to keep that one short and it just exploded into some wall of text, I usually try and cover all my bases so people know where I stand rather than just saying 'couldn't get into it' and leave it at that.
> 
> And yet I still procrastinate to hell when it comes to doing Uni assignments, the fuck is wrong with me?


Fair play, man. I tend to switch off during the first sitting & go with a gut feeling, then study the details next time round.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Meh, I don't whether I'm just fixated on paying attention from the get go or something but I usually remember most things I like/dislike. Though I occasionally have to rewind later for a particular spot in case I forget and end up talking about something completely stupid.

That being said with the pacing they worked at I didn't struggle picking out things I liked/disliked compared to a match I'm properly invested in. Elgin really did impress me though to the point I'm convinced he could have a ridiculously awesome match with someone who can structure a match better to highlight his strengths and build a more compelling comeback.


----------



## septurum

Shotakan said:


> Reluctantly giving Naito/Okada ****. I wanted to hate this due to Meltzer fapping all over it, but it was an ultimately good effort from two kids. The ending run was unnecessarily ridiculous, though.


**** 1/2. I thought it was one of the better matches of the year. TNA wasted Okada big time. And fuck Meltzer. Am I the only wrestling fan who never reads his stuff?


----------



## flag sabbath

septurum said:


> **** 1/2. I thought it was one of the better matches of the year. TNA wasted Okada big time. And fuck Meltzer. Am I the only wrestling fan who never reads his stuff?


I ditched the Observer back in 2001. Say what you will about Meltzer's knowledge, analysis & contacts - he's the Vince Russo of wrestling journalism when it comes to punctuation & syntax.


----------



## Bruce L

Finally watched Okada/Naitō. Really good stuff. Okada's talent doesn't quite seem fully-formed yet, but he definitely knows how to carry himself like a champion and hold up his end of a great match. There were a few too many instances for my liking of Okada blatantly favoring the leg at points when Naitō hadn't done anything to it in a while, and I'm not sure I like Naitō having so many counters to the Rainmaker before it's been more established as a lethal finisher, but these were hardly fatal flaws. My MOTY so far, though I'm really interested to see Richards/Elgin once _Showdown in the Sun_ hits DVD. ****½


----------



## wheelofsteel

Richards vs Elgin Is Match Of The Year For ROH And The Best Match I've Seen In ROH In A Long Time. It Reminded Me Of The True Essence Of The Company. ****3/4-*****


----------



## B-Boy21

Well the finals of the BJW Ikkitousen Strong Climb gets tons of love on here but I have to say Callihan and Sasaki had an outstanding match if you don't mind all of the kick outs at the end ( over done finish). I'd say its at least ****1/2. Haven't seen the Finals yet but Im really looking forward to them.


----------



## ViolenceIsGolden

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Elgin

Go down to his accomplishments and you'll see it says under Wrestling Observer that the match with Richards was rated at 5 stars.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I don't get what's that is supposed to signify? Dave Meltzer giving it ***** doesn't make it a ***** match, enjoying a match is entirely subjective and Meltzer like any of us has his personal tastes and style of matches he prefers to others.


----------



## smitlick

Heres everything Meltzer gave over **** for the weekend. (His thoughts on DGUSA won't arrive till next week)

Taker vs HHH - ****3/4
Steen vs Generico - Around ****
Richards vs Elgin - *****


----------



## Legend

Segunda Caida said:


> I don't get what's that is supposed to signify? Dave Meltzer giving it ***** doesn't make it a ***** match, enjoying a match is entirely subjective and Meltzer like any of us has his personal tastes and style of matches he prefers to others.


I'm glad someone here understands the concept of subjectivity.


----------



## TelkEvolon

Segunda Caida said:


> I don't get what's that is supposed to signify? Dave Meltzer giving it ***** doesn't make it a ***** match, enjoying a match is entirely subjective and Meltzer like any of us has his personal tastes and style of matches he prefers to others.


Closest thing to an "official rating" that we have and normally a great base rating to play off of.

Do you mean to tell me Meltzer's views are that of his own opinion and not fact? Go ahead and blow my mind why don't you.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

TelkEvolon said:


> Closest thing to an "official rating" that we have and normally a great base rating to play off of.
> 
> Do you mean to tell me Meltzer's views are that of his own opinion and not fact? Go ahead and blow my mind why don't you.


There's no such thing as an official rating in the slightest. He's a man who knows his trivia and wrestling history.....but he doesn't know a better match than you or I. Every rating is entirely subjective, Meltzer could make a 30 minute review of why Taker/HHH is nearly a perfect match and Jawbreaker or someone else who differs in opinion could make just as good/if not better retort which convinces others to check out the match again.

Really this is a man who rated an Eddie/Mysterio SD WWE Title match in 2004 low because 'it wasn't Lucha'. Seriously what in the hell is that as a critique of the match? I get that because of his standing people think Dave Meltzer knows a better match than others but the truth is he doesn't. He's just a well known figure who publishes his own personal opinion of a series of matches, nothing more and nothing less.


----------



## Vader

Just because someone has been doing something for a long time (Meltzer rating matches) it does not automatically mean he is better than everyone else at it - especially when it is something as subjective as this. For the football (soccer) fans amongst us, Emile Heskey has been playing football longer than Lionel Messi - which one is better?

mind fuck.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Exactly, I mean I can appreciate why ROH fans are bringing up the match getting *****. Meltzer isn't renowned for handing them out especially in US Wrestling and I'm sure this would make only the second ROH match after Joe/Kobashi to get the full 5? Or it was that DG 6 Man from Supercard of Honor that got the full 5 from Meltzer which wouldn't surprise me as its right in line with what he considers 'a great match'.

I just don't see why people try to argue about his rating meaning anything more than what it is. Its obviously good for ROH that their company put on a match that wowed one of the leading external figures in Wrestling, and as a result can join an elite club of matches that the renowned Meltzer considers to be perfect. However in context its only his opinion at the end of the day and doesn't mean much else, its not a set in stone ***** match because its impossible in such a subjective context to get a match that everyone can agree is the perfect match.

Some people love stiff wrestling while others are turned off by it, some seek inspiration from the sequences whereas others look for the character work and storytelling beyond the spots when assessing a match quality etc etc.


----------



## Vader

Yeah, I cannot stand 90% of DGUSA matches but I'd understand why some people love them - say I'm in the 'business' for 30 years and I say that a DGUSA match is terrible, because of what I prefer, does that mean my opinion means more than anyone else's here? It is only because he writes for a leading wrestling publication that it is seen in such a way - he has a tool for his opinions. You'll get people saying that Taker/HHH is less than *** but then say that his Elgin/Davey rating is spot on - so which one is he right on? Or is he actually neither right nor wrong on either of them?

This is basically pointless though as the same argument can also apply to whether or not you see Meltzer's ratings as the holy grail or whether or not you see them on par with, if not lower than someone like Segunda (whose opinions I'd actually value more as at least there's no CLEAR bias there).


----------



## Yeah1993

yes @ DG 6-man + Joe/Punk II

I haven't actually given star ratings for however long, and I'd be lying if I said I'm not completely interested in what Dave gives these matches (though not moreso than a lot of others), but basing an opinion off of another opinion is really out there. Maybe I'm reading wrong, but it sounds like some would either hold off on their rating until Dave's come out or alter it depending on what his actually are.

He thought the Armaggedon 6-man HIAC was ****1/2. I thought it was dogshit.  

It's a good comparison to your own rating if nothing else.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Damn how did I forget about Punk/Joe II. Not a clue why I thought it was Joe/Kobashi now.

@Vader, excellent post. Like I said I can understand why people are maybe ecstatic that Meltzer loved an ROH match so much, since even if his opinion actually counts for very much bar it being his own personal opinion, it is coming from a respected Wrestling fan who many seem to hold on a pedastal high above anyone else. Personally I just see his ratings as I do Seabs', one person watching and giving their personal opinion on a wrestling match. No-one can ever conclusively prove a match is perfect, hell I could totally see some people thinking the AJPW mid 90s classics as being too slow, or not understanding the psychology behind finisher kick outs playing off of prior matches. It doesn't diminish their standing if such a low opinion exists, but rather seeks to re-affirm that wrestling is entirely subjective.


----------



## FITZ

Segunda Caida said:


> Damn how did I forget about Punk/Joe II. Not a clue why I thought it was Joe/Kobashi now.
> 
> @Vader, excellent post. Like I said I can understand why people are maybe ecstatic that Meltzer loved an ROH match so much, since even if his opinion actually counts for very much bar it being his own personal opinion, it is coming from a respected Wrestling fan who many seem to hold on a pedastal high above anyone else. Personally I just see his ratings as I do Seabs', one person watching and giving their personal opinion on a wrestling match. No-one can ever conclusively prove a match is perfect, hell I could totally see some people thinking the AJPW mid 90s classics as being too slow, or not understanding the psychology behind finisher kick outs playing off of prior matches. It doesn't diminish their standing if such a low opinion exists, but rather seeks to re-affirm that wrestling is entirely subjective.


I know what you mean. Meltzer has his own things that he likes to see in a match. Everyone has those so it's not like this is some fundamental flaw. I think his ratings are worthwhile because he has so many of them though. It lets you look at the big picture and compare matches to each other from the same person. I think that's where Meltzer's ratings have some value. I mean if you come onto this forum and give a match ***1/2 it's kind of hard to get anything out of that when I don't know what matches you've given similar ratings to.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

That is a good point there actually, you do know where he stands on certain matches which does create a situation where you're expecting him to love/hate a certain match. I mean the minute HHH/Taker was over I knew he was going to be really high on it, plus him being such a well known figure certainly does enhance his legitimacy to some.


----------



## rafz

WWE Wresltemania XXVIII
_Triple H vs. The Undertaker - Hell In A Cell Match_
*****1/4*

_CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho_
****3/4*

_The Rock vs. John Cena_
******

WWE RAW 02/04
_CM Punk vs. Mark Henry_
******


----------



## Legend

Irony = some of the people who argue for a subjective approach to wrestling give others shit for liking a particular match. That's not subjectivism.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Is that a general statement Legend, or directed at posters in particular?


----------



## Legend

It's pretty general, but obviously there are the main offenders. I just get very, very annoyed when someone gets hounded for liking a particular match/wrestler. There's debate and then there's just elitist snobbery. I'm sure you know what I mean, though, it's prevalent in all forms of criticism.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Ahhh fair enough, yeah I'm in complete agreement. I mean I definitely differ with a lot of people these days about 'great matches', e.g my numerous discussions with fans of Angle, Davey, Michaels and many others. 

I'd never mock someone for liking a match, though it does bug me when people laugh when others rate a match much lower and dismiss others opinions as just hating a match for the sake of it. Reminds me of that discussion Jawbreaker was involved where he argued people couldn't just hide behind liking the match as their opinion, but rather when called upon to discuss why they enjoyed a particular match to offer the best explanation so as to allow for a proper discussion about the potential flaws in the match that meant others had a lesser opinion of the same match.


Though I want it on record that if anyone watches Lawler v Dundee LLT 30/12/85 and comes away thinking it sucks donkey balls I will hunt them down and strike down with merciful vengeance


----------



## bigbuxxx

Yeah1993 said:


> He thought the Armaggedon 6-man HIAC was ****1/2. I thought it was dogshit.


glad i'm not alone on this match (i've seen a lot pimp this and play it up). it was just boring.


----------



## jawbreaker

going to rewatch Richards/Elgin because on a first watch I had it at ****1/4. Loved Richards as the increasingly desperate champ, thought they built magnificently to Elgin's powerbomb, and was pleasantly surprised that they didn't lose the crowd as much as I thought they would with all the nearfalls.

flag sabbath is pretty dead on, as usual. Can't find his post but it got my take on it pretty much perfectly.


----------



## bigbuxxx

just watched Elgin vs Richards and I'd throw it slightly above Naito/Okada for my MOTY so far. kinda disappointed with the finish. much like in taker/hhh they had to end it in such an obvious spot where you knew it was going to be finsher > 3 count. just end the thing on the high note ffs and don't overkill everything.


----------



## ViolenceIsGolden

I loved that Mark Henry/CM Punk match on Raw. One of the best performances of Henrys career how he worked the injured rib and played the dominant strong man to perfection throwing around Punk like a rag doll. The finish was booked perfectly too. Great way to utilize a count out finish which is usually a bad thing.


----------



## Yeah1993

Segunda Caida said:


> Not a clue why I thought it was Joe/Kobashi now.


Probably because he gave that five stars, too. 

So yeah, four ROH fivers from him:

Joe/Punk II
Joe/Kobashi
DG 6-man
Richards/Elgin


----------



## Zatiel

777 said:


> Just thought I'd be one of the few to put Jericho/Punk as my number one Mania match. Thought the stipulation made the first segment interesting with Jericho in the Foleyesque position of letting Punk beat on him trying to entice the DQ.
> 
> I've seen a lot of posts claiming the crowd was dead, but I got the impression that the audience, like me, were watching the 'wrestling' intently, more akin to a Japanese crowd, which if my impressions are correct is a feat in itself given the boisterous nature of the fans.
> 
> Because I expected a lot from this match, I in turn expected to be let down with the result, however when the match was finished I found myself very pleased with what I had just witnessed.


Wanted to get behind you on this. Might be my MOTY right now, and definitely my favorite match from Mania.

I think I view crowds differently from most people. Generally I feel a crowd can add to a match, but can't detract from the match itself - it's either a net plus, or the crowd deserves to be removed from the equation. These guys have been treated as second-class stars behind Rock, Cena, HHH, HBK and Undertaker, and they were slotted after the Hell in a Cell match already burned down the building. Their match is not guilty for lacking Steve Austin or some other insane legacy. Not having the crowd into it at the start was not their fault, nor does it detract from the match they wrestled.

It reminded me of the amazing Danielson Vs. Styles match from Main Event Spectacles where the audience was simply too burned out from crazy stuff and a long night to get into a technical wrestling match. In ways Main Event Spectacles was a worse spot to be in, but following End of an Era with Shawn Michaels bouncing around and infinite weapons shots was unenviable.

I said "nor does it detract from the match they wrestled" because without a doubt they wrestled the best match of the night. Punk bumped and sold like a madman, but actually took fewer dangerous falls than HHH and Undertaker - they just framed them to make them matter more. All the stuff with Punk's back and Jericho trying to work into his Walls variation was great. I found the stipulation cheesy, but Jericho set up all the teases as unique, so it didn't get redundant, and soon enough they progressed to the meat of the match. Punk finally capturing Jericho in the G2S and screaming "Best in the World" had more personality than HHH stumbling into the Tombstone or Cena goofing on the People's Elbow. And I really liked those two matches.

I've heard the two spent months putting the match together. While it's not a Savage/Steamboat masterpiece, the level of thought did show. It was just great stuff. Jericho as a coward, Jericho as an opportunist, Jericho as dangerous, Punk as vengeful, Punk as vulnerable, Punk as triumphant - every phase of the match worked swimmingly.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

jawbreaker said:


> going to rewatch Richards/Elgin because on a first watch I had it at ****1/4. Loved Richards as the increasingly desperate champ, thought they built magnificently to Elgin's powerbomb, and was pleasantly surprised that they didn't lose the crowd as much as I thought they would with all the nearfalls.
> 
> flag sabbath is pretty dead on, as usual. Can't find his post but it got my take on it pretty much perfectly.


Its strange, I actually liked Richards' selling for the most part (Elgin's collapse to the mat after two ankle locks was the best bit of incorporating selling into a spot), I mean there were a few instances where he'd get up too quick from a move/run at a quick speed and I'd be about to roll my eyes and expect him to ignore the earlier work and thus kill the story that Elgin was slowly weakening his entire body but to his credit he was always grabbing his lower back before big moves to at least reinforce his body was damaged and thus even if the move in theory wasn't something you'd attempt with a weakened back it at least came off as 'this is something I have to do no matter how much it hurts'. And as I said before, both men sold the exhaustion and wear & tear of the match surprisingly well, actually felt like they were out of energy by the end rather than moving effortlessly like the match had been going 5 minutes.

Still, the opening 2/3rds dragged horribly and the structure was off. I mean Davey's desperation at the start was nice but then his spot where he dragged Elgin round the ringside area lacked that follow up urgency and not two minutes later Elgin took over and started control. I just never felt Richards was sufficiently being beaten to within an inch of his life or that Elgin was in trouble and needed a big spot to take control: the fisherman suplex and powerbomb into the barricade was an awesome transition spot in theory...but Richards needed to have controlled more of the opening before that spot for it to serve as a game changing spot and transition into Elgin taking control.

I fully agree with you however on the superb buildup to the spinning powerbomb, felt like Elgin's offence was perfectly placed in building up to that powerbomb and it came at just the right amount time in the match to feel like a genuine match ender. Also loved the discuss lariat to set up which looked to have killed Davey, felt like one of those classic ROH match enders where someone like Joe would hit a big combo move to finally put the opponent down for the 3 count.


----------



## Bubz

Bruce L said:


> Finally watched Okada/Naitō. Really good stuff. Okada's talent doesn't quite seem fully-formed yet, but he definitely knows how to carry himself like a champion and hold up his end of a great match. *There were a few too many instances for my liking of Okada blatantly favoring the leg at points when Naitō hadn't done anything to it in a while,* and I'm not sure I like Naitō having so many counters to the Rainmaker before it's been more established as a lethal finisher, but these were hardly fatal flaws. My MOTY so far, though I'm really interested to see Richards/Elgin once _Showdown in the Sun_ hits DVD. ****½


Thats called long term selling  and Okada did it amazingly in the match. One of the reasons I have it rated so high is because Okada would always sell the leg whether Naito was on offence or not.

I also loved the finishing stretch, it didn't last long, but the transition into the lariat was amazing and everything Okada did was focussed on the neck.


----------



## EmbassyForever

iMPACT Wrestling 2012 04 05:
Kurt Angle - Jeff Hardy - ***
AJ Styles - James Storm - ***1/4
MCMG - LAX - **1/2


----------



## jawbreaker

Segunda Caida said:


> Its strange, I actually liked Richards' selling for the most part (Elgin's collapse to the mat after two ankle locks was the best bit of incorporating selling into a spot), I mean there were a few instances where he'd get up too quick from a move/run at a quick speed and I'd be about to roll my eyes and expect him to ignore the earlier work and thus kill the story that Elgin was slowly weakening his entire body but to his credit he was always grabbing his lower back before big moves to at least reinforce his body was damaged and thus even if the move in theory wasn't something you'd attempt with a weakened back it at least came off as 'this is something I have to do no matter how much it hurts'. And as I said before, both men sold the exhaustion and wear & tear of the match surprisingly well, actually felt like they were out of energy by the end rather than moving effortlessly like the match had been going 5 minutes.
> 
> Still, the opening 2/3rds dragged horribly and the structure was off. I mean Davey's desperation at the start was nice but then his spot where he dragged Elgin round the ringside area lacked that follow up urgency and not two minutes later Elgin took over and started control. I just never felt Richards was sufficiently being beaten to within an inch of his life or that Elgin was in trouble and needed a big spot to take control: the fisherman suplex and powerbomb into the barricade was an awesome transition spot in theory...but Richards needed to have controlled more of the opening before that spot for it to serve as a game changing spot and transition into Elgin taking control.
> 
> I fully agree with you however on the superb buildup to the spinning powerbomb, felt like Elgin's offence was perfectly placed in building up to that powerbomb and it came at just the right amount time in the match to feel like a genuine match ender. Also loved the discuss lariat to set up which looked to have killed Davey, felt like one of those classic ROH match enders where someone like Joe would hit a big combo move to finally put the opponent down for the 3 count.


I agree with pretty much everything you liked. The thing is, when I first watched it, I wasn't expecting anything other than the kind of match Davey's been having for damn near a year now, and so I wasn't paying super close attention during the first half or so. I'll rewatch it soon and give my thoughts in a more detailed fashion then.

I doubt I'll change much from this, though: this was the best Richards match of his title run by several miles and shows what he's capable of doing, even if he didn't do it consistently here, and it also showed surprising range, versatility, and psychology from Elgin that he hadn't really shown off previously. It totally exceeded my initial expectations and while it was far from perfect, it gave me some hope for the future of the ROH title picture.


----------



## Pablo Escobar

So melter gave Richards/Elgin a legit 5 star match?!? I can't see these guys putting on a 5 star match. I really can't see Elgin meshing better with davey than guys like strong, omega, Edwards, ad probably a few others. The match just wouldnt have a big fight feel. Plus im sure roh has put on better matches in the past 6 years.Very surprising, I'm going to have to check this out.


----------



## Certified G

I'd probably give Richards/Elgin a ****1/2 or ****3/4.. I thought it was an awesome match, I just thought it had a slow start which kinda takes away from my rating. Other than that I really enjoyed it, definitely my type of match, nearly nonstop action.


----------



## Bubz

I personally don't have a proble with Meltzer's ratings at all. He obviously has a certain criteria that has to be met for him to rate a match that high, and it's his own personal criteria. I don't think people should get so annoyed at his ratings since it is subjective and he is pretty much just a fan like those of us in here who rate and analyse matches.


----------



## Saint Dick

CM Punk v Mark Henry - Raw 4/2/12
-- All things considered this was perfectly worked. It's not a MOTYC in my mind but they couldn't have put together a better match considering the time it got and the directions they want both guys to go in. Henry looked like a monster talking trash, dominating, and cutting off Punk at every turn. Punk did a great job selling that his championship was in jeopardy and put up a spirited fight with great flurries (made even better by the crowd) and a couple neat desperation spots (really liked the DDT counter to the bear hug). Would've liked a close nearfall or two against Punk before the countout finish to get the crowd really thinking that it might be Henry's night but can't blame them for that. Would love to see a longer version of this on PPV.

***1/2


----------



## Shotakan

Segunda Caida said:


> Well apologies guys, but I'm gonna have to be the party pooper on Richards/Elgin.
> 
> *Davey Richards v Michael Elgin, ROH World Championship, Showdown In The Sun Night II, 03/31/12*- NO
> 
> A really really strange match all around tbh, there was a lot of things I dug in this match: Elgin coming out looking like a legit tough SOB, the running theme of his power being too much for Davey, Richards actually grabbing his back before doing some spots that could be seen as ignoring the limbwork so as to at least show the viewer he was hurt and both men down the stretch doing a great job of exhaustion selling and showing the continuing effects of the match.
> 
> Still the pacing and structure really felt off here, Richards' initial flurry was fine even though I thought it sacrificed a feeling out process and went straight into the action and it only lasting a couple of minutes before Elgin took over set the stage for the opening portion of the match dragging. I mean I enjoy the milking of the babyface shine period but this felt like a bad opening, if this was a WWE match with someone like Mysterio you'd expect some speed/power spots to show off the contrast and much of the first 10 minutes seemed like one guy having some brief form of control before a flurry of strikes and the other guy having control. Have to mention as well some of Davey's strikes were bad here, his kicks are generally fine but he can't really pull off convincing forearm strikes that look to have a lot of effect and that's a major problem when you're facing a bigger opponent, its part of why Punk doesn't always make a great face in peril because some of his offence looks really bad against bigger man and can really bring you out of the match. The fisherman suplex on the floor and powerbomb into guardrail combo was an excellent transition spot in theory...but Davey hadn't shined in the opening portion at all really and as a result it never felt like a game changer in the match, especially as the next few minutes seemed to plod a bit with Elgin's control never reaching the heights I expected. He did some nice stuff but here is where you'd expect a total shitkicking of Richards to take place and for them to build and build to the comeback but it never really came. They had some mini strike exchange flurries and then Richards attempted the somersault powerbomb in the corner which led to the Top Rope Dragon Suplex spot.
> 
> Now this next bit further irked me, a brilliant spot for Elgin to win over the crowd but executed with a few problems:
> 
> a) there was zero build to that sort of spot, it was the sort of spot you'd expect to be one of the last in the match but once Elgin kicked out we had a good 10 minutes of less believable near falls occurring (the eventual finish looking particularly weak). I liked the initial struggle over the spot but again Richards despite looking hurt had still hardly taking the extended workover to build to such an emphatic comeback....and him going straight into an Ankle Lock rather than sell the kickout further annoyed me, especially as Elgin wasn't in the hold long enough to create a believable near fall.
> b) furthermore Elgin hadn't been sufficiently weakened for the spot to feel organic in the match. Had Davey built a flurry of offence and gradually worn Elgin down AND then hit this desperation spot it would have felt so much better. Whilst I find such a move stupid to be kicked out of, had they worked the multiple kicks finish straight afterwards I would have at least enjoyed Elgin looking like a beast and the move essentially being the ending even if it didn't immediately lead to the count. As it was despite turning the crowd up a notch it felt like a wasted spot down the finishing stretch when counters were being traded, though Elgin throughout the match did a great job of looking worn down by the tempo they were working.
> 
> Some of the strike exchanges bothered me as they tend to do, again bar the execution looking bad they felt poorly timed in the match although I did like Elgin seemingly winning every one which played into the power story which was constantly recurring in the match. The combo leading into the sitout powerbomb nearfall was terrific and brilliantly timed by Elgin, it helped he'd gradually worn Richards down the entire match and the way they worked him countering Richards' offence into that sick lariat before finally hitting his move was terrific...but the minute Richards kicked out I sort of lost interest because he never really got in a sustained comeback to sufficiently weaken Elgin.
> 
> The powerbomb kickout was super because it felt like a genuine match ender and the culmination of Elgin's offence but Davey had been limited to kicks and a couple of top rope spots as his offence and as a result Elgin never looked to be on the ropes in my opinion. Actual finish also felt quite flat after everything that had been kicked out of beforehand, had they maybe moved certain moves around I'd have dug the finishing run more but as a result it didn't work as well for me.
> 
> So aye, there was a lot of things I enjoyed in this match which surprised me but the plodding structure and lack of a clear beginning-middle-end really hurts this match IMO. It felt very your turn my turn in who got onto offence and as a result there was a lack of clear build into the finish, though some of the spots won the crowd over regardless of the pacing and build. Richards' selling was nice though I'd have loved him to have worked his injury into a spot like Elgin did after the repeated ankle locks but what we got was ok, there were a few moments where he'd blow it off to work an exchange but there wasn't a point in the match where I thought he'd truly no sold the earlier work so props to him. I just wasn't really engaged with the opening 2/3rds of the match and with the final finishing run feeling overdone and lacking in placement I was never fully 'hooked'. I can see why the match has its admirers although if I'm being honest it never screamed 'epic' to me at all, like I've never enjoyed the Richards/Edwards matches or Richards/Black but some of the sequences I could at least buy as being awe inspiring that people would look past any structural issues and just be wowed by the wrestling. The pacing and plodding nature here though never even felt to me like the wrestling I was watching was awe-inspring, its certainly better than a lot of other Richards matches I've seen and Elgin looked impressive given my limited viewing of him but as a MOTYC.....I just can't see what made the match so incredible.
> 
> A rating would be hard right about now, the actual work wasn't bad but the structure was really off to me and definitely something that with the right tweaking could have lifted the match into something a lot more. I dunno ***3/4-***1/4* for Elgin getting a good showcase, the fans being won over into the finishing stretch, some nice selling of the wear and tear by both men and Nigel's commentary...but with a better beginning and middle this would be pushing a much higher rating.


This sums up my feelings, and a bit more politely as well. Parts of this were excellent, but ultimately only an OK match. **1/2-**3/4


----------



## Bubz

I definitely see the criticisms of the Davey/Elgin match and there was a section of the match I absolutely hated, but for me there was enough awesome stuff in the match for a higher rating. I definitely don't think it would have been anywhere near as good without Nigel being ridiculously amazing on commentary and the crowd being so into it which are two things that definitely can add to a match, and in this case, both were so awesome that they REALLY added to it for me. On a rewatch I could end up lowering my rating which I do all the time.


----------



## ViolenceIsGolden

Segunda Caida said:


> Well apologies guys, but I'm gonna have to be the party pooper on Richards/Elgin.
> 
> *Davey Richards v Michael Elgin, ROH World Championship, Showdown In The Sun Night II, 03/31/12*- NO
> 
> A really really strange match all around tbh, there was a lot of things I dug in this match: Elgin coming out looking like a legit tough SOB, the running theme of his power being too much for Davey, Richards actually grabbing his back before doing some spots that could be seen as ignoring the limbwork so as to at least show the viewer he was hurt and both men down the stretch doing a great job of exhaustion selling and showing the continuing effects of the match.
> 
> Still the pacing and structure really felt off here, Richards' initial flurry was fine even though I thought it sacrificed a feeling out process and went straight into the action and it only lasting a couple of minutes before Elgin took over set the stage for the opening portion of the match dragging. I mean I enjoy the milking of the babyface shine period but this felt like a bad opening, if this was a WWE match with someone like Mysterio you'd expect some speed/power spots to show off the contrast and much of the first 10 minutes seemed like one guy having some brief form of control before a flurry of strikes and the other guy having control. Have to mention as well some of Davey's strikes were bad here, his kicks are generally fine but he can't really pull off convincing forearm strikes that look to have a lot of effect and that's a major problem when you're facing a bigger opponent, its part of why Punk doesn't always make a great face in peril because some of his offence looks really bad against bigger man and can really bring you out of the match. The fisherman suplex on the floor and powerbomb into guardrail combo was an excellent transition spot in theory...but Davey hadn't shined in the opening portion at all really and as a result it never felt like a game changer in the match, especially as the next few minutes seemed to plod a bit with Elgin's control never reaching the heights I expected. He did some nice stuff but here is where you'd expect a total shitkicking of Richards to take place and for them to build and build to the comeback but it never really came. They had some mini strike exchange flurries and then Richards attempted the somersault powerbomb in the corner which led to the Top Rope Dragon Suplex spot.
> 
> Now this next bit further irked me, a brilliant spot for Elgin to win over the crowd but executed with a few problems:
> 
> a) there was zero build to that sort of spot, it was the sort of spot you'd expect to be one of the last in the match but once Elgin kicked out we had a good 10 minutes of less believable near falls occurring (the eventual finish looking particularly weak). I liked the initial struggle over the spot but again Richards despite looking hurt had still hardly taking the extended workover to build to such an emphatic comeback....and him going straight into an Ankle Lock rather than sell the kickout further annoyed me, especially as Elgin wasn't in the hold long enough to create a believable near fall.
> b) furthermore Elgin hadn't been sufficiently weakened for the spot to feel organic in the match. Had Davey built a flurry of offence and gradually worn Elgin down AND then hit this desperation spot it would have felt so much better. Whilst I find such a move stupid to be kicked out of, had they worked the multiple kicks finish straight afterwards I would have at least enjoyed Elgin looking like a beast and the move essentially being the ending even if it didn't immediately lead to the count. As it was despite turning the crowd up a notch it felt like a wasted spot down the finishing stretch when counters were being traded, though Elgin throughout the match did a great job of looking worn down by the tempo they were working.
> 
> Some of the strike exchanges bothered me as they tend to do, again bar the execution looking bad they felt poorly timed in the match although I did like Elgin seemingly winning every one which played into the power story which was constantly recurring in the match. The combo leading into the sitout powerbomb nearfall was terrific and brilliantly timed by Elgin, it helped he'd gradually worn Richards down the entire match and the way they worked him countering Richards' offence into that sick lariat before finally hitting his move was terrific...but the minute Richards kicked out I sort of lost interest because he never really got in a sustained comeback to sufficiently weaken Elgin.
> 
> The powerbomb kickout was super because it felt like a genuine match ender and the culmination of Elgin's offence but Davey had been limited to kicks and a couple of top rope spots as his offence and as a result Elgin never looked to be on the ropes in my opinion. Actual finish also felt quite flat after everything that had been kicked out of beforehand, had they maybe moved certain moves around I'd have dug the finishing run more but as a result it didn't work as well for me.
> 
> So aye, there was a lot of things I enjoyed in this match which surprised me but the plodding structure and lack of a clear beginning-middle-end really hurts this match IMO. It felt very your turn my turn in who got onto offence and as a result there was a lack of clear build into the finish, though some of the spots won the crowd over regardless of the pacing and build. Richards' selling was nice though I'd have loved him to have worked his injury into a spot like Elgin did after the repeated ankle locks but what we got was ok, there were a few moments where he'd blow it off to work an exchange but there wasn't a point in the match where I thought he'd truly no sold the earlier work so props to him. I just wasn't really engaged with the opening 2/3rds of the match and with the final finishing run feeling overdone and lacking in placement I was never fully 'hooked'. I can see why the match has its admirers although if I'm being honest it never screamed 'epic' to me at all, like I've never enjoyed the Richards/Edwards matches or Richards/Black but some of the sequences I could at least buy as being awe inspiring that people would look past any structural issues and just be wowed by the wrestling. The pacing and plodding nature here though never even felt to me like the wrestling I was watching was awe-inspring, its certainly better than a lot of other Richards matches I've seen and Elgin looked impressive given my limited viewing of him but as a MOTYC.....I just can't see what made the match so incredible.
> 
> A rating would be hard right about now, the actual work wasn't bad but the structure was really off to me and definitely something that with the right tweaking could have lifted the match into something a lot more. I dunno ***3/4-***1/4* for Elgin getting a good showcase, the fans being won over into the finishing stretch, some nice selling of the wear and tear by both men and Nigel's commentary...but with a better beginning and middle this would be pushing a much higher rating.


I like Dave Meltzers review better. Meltzers review was more organic and built up properly than your review.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Well Meltzer's opinion is fact after all...


----------



## Yeah1993

What does "organic" mean when talking about a wrestling review?


----------



## sharkboy22

So far Okada/Naito is my MOTY. Here's my review of it:



> OKADA/Naito is actually a pretty damn good match but it has its flaws. I just hated how sometimes Naito would completely ignore all the leg work he had previously done at times. The finish also left a bad a taste in my mouth. I haven't seen the match in some weeks so correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the match end in a clothesline? And just minutes prior to that, OKADA was dropping Naito on his head? A guy gets hit some high impact moves and still kicks out, but a clothesline ends the match?
> 
> Then another thing was the piledrivers. I think I just have to accept the fact that in Puro a piledriver deals the same damage as a headlock. But the one thing I liked was OKADA selling the injured leg really well after delivering the two piledrivers (the one inside the ring and the other outside). He made it look like it was the only thing keeping him back from winning. But there were times Naito would just completely ignore the leg work. It wasn't often but it happened.
> 
> I not a big puro guy or as a matter of fact any wrestling match on the whole that involves stiff kicks chops, elbows,no selling and head dropping but NJPW doesn't feature such shit (at least from what I've seen) It's mostly NOAH and AJPW that do that sort of thing, so I stay as far away as possible from those promotions.
> 
> But I really liked OKADA/Naito. I'm not really that big a fan of either guy but OKADA is a really good performer in the ring. He has good psychology and sells well. For some odd reason he's like a Japanese Randy Orton to me with his mannerisms. This is a damn good match. I don't see it being MOTY but it's one of the best for the year thus far.
> 
> ****


I'm really dreading that Richards/Elgin match. I hate stiff wrestling. Hate it, hate it, hate it. I don't mind one or two stiff shots but holy shit the overdone stiff elbows, kicks, chops just turns me off. I hate the ROH/indy style of wrestling. I don't wanna really brand it as the indy style but it's commonly found in the 'big time' indy companies and even Japanese promotions like NOAH and AJPW. Every match is structured the same way. Random ass chain wrestling at the start that fail to develop a story, then the aggressive takedown and aggressive rolls to counter them begin. Then from there it's just move for move. There is a huge lack of selling right now on the indies. No one sells anything. It's clear as day that a lot of these indy wrestlers need to put away their Misawa/Kobashi tapes and put in some good old Memphis. They try so badly to recreate all those AJPW matches from the late 80s and 90s.

Oh yeah and I'm not sure if it's true but I heard there was a match with Davey Richards 9and possibly Eddie Edwards, not too sure) in which the finish saw Richards top rope suplex his opponent and then without releasing it on the mat did another one and then finished with an ankle lock? I can see why that will entertain some, but it does nothing for me. Like I said I haven't seen the match but I can take a guess her and say that, knowing these two men, there was no back work previously done and there definitely wasn't any leg work. But all limb work aside, it's just overdone. A top rope suplex is as big as a spot it gets. It's a move that knocks the wind out of both guys, you're killing the illusion by going directly into a standing suplex and where the heck does the ankle lock come into this? It's way too overdone for my taste.

I just really, really, hate that stiff kicking, elbowing, chopping, no selling, head dropping style of wrestling. There's nothing that breaks my concentration and interest and overall focus more in a match like when I see wrestlers just going move for move. A great example of this that I saw recently and is fresh in my mind is Hamada/Melissa vs Del Rey/Eagles from SHIMMER 39. It got to the point where I just stopped watching. Nothing is more distracting when you're trying to watch a match and it's nothing but a you hit me, I hit you. A good example of an intense match that took place on the card night was Jessica James/Athena. That's how you convey the message of intense. Check that match out. It's a short match but great storytelling.

But like I said dreading that Richards/Elgin. To me the best thing in ROH is Adam Cole. I just hate his style of wrestling as a face. He needs to tone it down. As a heel he worked tremendously though. He's still pretty damn young( which is why this is not a major complain atm for me) but he needs to put on some more size if he wants WWE to start calling. But the guy has the look, he can talk and has the in-ring skills. He's the total package. I've had my eye on him for about 2 years now. He's the only guy on the indies right now that I wanna see in the WWE.

Oh and as for Meltzer, his opinion doesn't mean damn thing to me. He was once a God amongst wrestling fans to me but now I don't give a damn. He also obviously has some sort of bias against WWE. Are you telling me the only ***** match since Bret/Austin was Punk/Cena?


----------



## TelkEvolon

Yeah1993 said:


> What does "organic" mean when talking about a wrestling review?


Natural.

Doesn't look forced or played up.


----------



## sharkboy22

Oh and I have one more complaint that I forgot to mention about the style of wrestling that I so am not in love with- overdone near falls/roll ups. Have people forgotten the purpose of a roll up? Last time I checked it works perfectly in a match where the babyface has been getting the living hell pounded out of him and then just when you think he has nothing left in the tank, he's able to duck the clothesline off the rebound and roll up the heel. Then, the heel basically gets kicks out and the face runs straight into a clothesline. Can this simple but effective style of wrestling be found on the indies nowadays? I'm just asking.

Not even going to bother to touch on how ridiculous the overdone, let's roll oll over the goddamn place with it, leverage pins are.

Oh and as for nearfalls. Good Lord! False finishes, they're everywhere. It's worse than Atttiude Era false finishes! They get redundant and lose that "Holy shit, how did he kick out!" feel fast.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

TelkEvolon said:


> Natural.
> 
> Doesn't look forced or played up.


How in the hell do you play up a review? Its an expression of one's opinion on a match. Am I just being naiive or something because I really can't follow that trail of thought.


----------



## Bubz

Why does his review look forced though?

I watched the latest NJPW show, the New Japan Cup Day 2. Nothing MOTYC level but Nakamura/Anderson was very enjoyable, and MiSu/Makabe was okay too (I mark for MiSu), but Tanahashi/Naito annoyed the living fuck out of me. Absolutely nothing made sense at all! FUCK!

I was about ready to jump on the Naito bandwagon after the Okada performance which was so great, but the Kojima match didn't do much for me and then there was this! I'm still holding out hope he has more great stuff in him, but he keeps doing the leg work, and the only time it has meant anything was in the Okada match. The Tanahashi match had both guys going after the leg, and non of it led anywhere in th slightest, Tana's selling was okay for like 30 seconds but Naitos was abysmal and they both just completely forgot about it. The last thing we need is another Tanahashi type who uses all these fucking dragon screws for THE WHOLE MATCH, and then hits a bunch of frog splashes and spinning twirly neckbreaker things for no reason. Stupid.


----------



## antoniomare007

BUBZ said:


> *BJW 26/3 Strong Climb Final - Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yoshihito Sasaki*
> I loved the start with Sekimoto going straight in with his game plan of going after the neck and hitting a backdrop driver. It set the tone for the rest of the match, and Sekimoto was awesome and very methodical going after the neck. I loved Sasaki's first comeback attempt hitting the spear only to sell the neck amazingly allowing Sekimoto to get back up first and continue laying down the law. Again, *Sekimoto was so great in this match, I loved how he changed the powerbomb/boston crab combo into an STF so as to go right after the neck again*. Sasaki's comeback was well done, but my only problem with the match was that he seemed to forget about his neck in the finishing stretch even though Sekimoto didn't and continued hitting moves all directed at that body part. The actual finish was great with Sasaki throwing everything he had in his striking range and completely laying into Sekimoto who's selling was absolutely incredible. Some of the exchanges were so awesome, I do think the headbutts were way to much though, I mean they were fucking sick and you could clearly hear them legit headbutting eachother. I wish that hadn't had happened, I genuinely couldn't tell if Sekimoto was legit fucked or if his selling was just amazing, but I think and hope it was the latter. Great match though, I just wish Sasaki had sold his neck a lot better in the finishing stertch as it could have elevated this to true greatness, but Sekimoto's performance was legit incredible here.
> *****1/4*
> 
> Sekimoto is easily front runner for my WOTY so far by the way.


The 2 things that really sold me on that match were that spot and Daisuke doing a flying elbow to the neck instead of his usual frog splash. It gave the idea that Sekimoto wasn't doing his "formula" match and that he actually had a game plan. It's one of the few times were he actually showed he could work as the "Ace" and it worked perfectly as Sasaki is such a great underdog and he kinda has lived under Daisuke's "shadow" for a long time. 

I liked Okada/Naito a lot but there's nothing I saw from that match (or Elgin/Davey, or any other bout I've seen this year so far) that comes close to what Daisuke, Yoshihito and Korakuen Hall did in the Strong Climb Final. I guess the fact I've been following Big Japan for years now and that I'm a massive mark for both guys made the match feel so important to me. I truly felt I was watching something special.


----------



## TelkEvolon

Segunda Caida said:


> How in the hell do you play up a review? Its an expression of one's opinion on a match. Am I just being naiive or something because I really can't follow that trail of thought.


Are we talking about the same thing? Doesn't feel like it.

I'm talking about what people can mean when they use the word organic in the review of a wrestling match.

You kinda make it sound like I am reviewing a review.


----------



## smitlick

*Evolve 10*
Ronin vs The Super Smash Brothers
****


----------



## Yeah1993

TelkEvolon said:


> Yoy kinda make it sound like I am reviewing a review.


That's pretty much what VIG did. "Meltzer's is better b/c it's more organic" = sort of reviewing the reviews. Sort of.

I just wanted to know how "organic" can apply to a wrestling review itself (not a wrestling match- I get THAT).

Comparing "reviews" on here to Meltzer's is pretty silly anyway. Dave might put thought into it and try to pleas his readers and all that jazz. Someone like me just babbles with swear words and doesn't call it a "review" as much as a "hey this is stuff about the match."

Speaking of which- 



me n stuff said:


> Punk v Henry was awesome (hyperbolic, I guess. I mean if I used star ratings it'd be like ***1/2 but I'm picky and think that's almost great), because of a lot of reasons I still remember. Opening was Punk distancing Mark because if he got too close Mark would eat his fucking face off. Henry got past that because he's a fat man and started humiliating and yelling at Punk because he's a mean fat man. The yells of "I OWN YOU," and "DID I TELL YOU TO MOVE" were so big and dominating. Punk's sell of anything Henry did to his back was terrific and I remember those squeals and facials when he was under the ropes or near the corner. Punk tries multiple times to build offense but Henry keeping booting him (some looked NASTY btw) and keeping him from stringing anything together so we have a great little story built for a 12 minute Raw match. If Punk strung anything together Henry may have been in deep shit. Punk WAS in deep shit when Henry lapped on the bear hug and Punk pulled out the most desperate elbow flurry of his life. Looked like a truly awesome struggle and it had the suspense that at any second Henry could shrug it off and turn Punk into meatloaf. Punk finally gets more than a little offense and gets his signature "knee/bulldog," but Henry's STILL not down enough and throws him outside the ring to get a breather. Neither guy can recover- Punk isn't getting back in the ring (back's hurt/he's taken way too much b/w this and the bumps v Jericho) and Henry's shaking off cobwebs too long to do anything about it. I didn't love the finish at all, though. Maybe I asked for too much to have a definitive end to it but I doubt I'd have to explain why a count-out finish isn't preferrable to me.


Needed a nearfall/finish stretch. And a finish.


----------



## Bubz

antoniomare007 said:


> The 2 things that really sold me on that match were that spot and Daisuke doing a flying elbow to the neck instead of his usual frog splash. It gave the idea that Sekimoto wasn't doing his "formula" match and that he actually had a game plan. It's one of the few times were he actually showed he could work as the "Ace" and it worked perfectly as Sasaki is such a great underdog and he kinda has lived under Daisuke's "shadow" for a long time.
> 
> I liked Okada/Naito a lot but there's nothing I saw from that match (or Elgin/Davey, or any other bout I've seen this year so far) that comes close to what Daisuke, Yoshihito and Korakuen Hall did in the Strong Climb Final. I guess the fact I've been following Big Japan for years now and that I'm a massive mark for both guys made the match feel so important to me. I truly felt I was watching something special.


Yeah, the flying elbow to Sasaki's neck was awesome, even all of Sekimoto's forearms were directed straight at the neck. Definitely an awesome match but I'm not completely sold on Sasaki yet and thought his selling could have been better which is my only real complaint. But IMO, Sekimoto's performance in this is easily the best individual performance of the year by far, and it's gonna' take something incredible to top it.


----------



## BKKsoulcity

I really don't understand how Melzter rates all those All Japan matches 5 stars and didn't even give one Taker match 5. I don't even want to get started on vastly overrated he rated the Elgin and Richards match. They had no prior history at all with eachother and with that there was no way they would be able to tell a story with eachother. It was just a typical strong style indy and japan type match with a little more exaggerated kick outs and Elgin pulling out all the tricks in his bags which were amazing but nothing to give 5 stars to


----------



## Yeah1993

There's a lot of All Japan matches better than any Undertaker match.

He gave the first HIAC (Michaels/Taker) five stars, btw.


----------



## fludder99

this is my promotion Preston City Wrestling and the link is a match that was voted 3rd in the UK match of the year on a large UK wrestling forum.

Money In The Bank
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIng...DvjVQa1PpcFOi0T3cwlc3BkXpJbyKEp6l9d8j3x0t6Vs=


----------



## Ali Dia

I don't think either HBK/Taker match warrants 5 if that's what you were referring too BKK. But yeh Meltzer's ratings are his and only his opinion. I mean Punk/Cena the best WWE match since 97? Davey/Elgin best ROH match since 06? It's crazy but oh well. At the end of the day we get hooked by different things, and whilst people have a set criteria, one part of that can be how gripped you are by a match and you never know what may do it to different people. For instance I think Aries/Nigel from Rising Above is the best match in ROH history but many will pick something else for there own reasons and it's just how it works. But I guess we as people like having that above power, to set some sort of example and give us a chance to compare opinions and when someone who has developed a reputation like Dave seems to go way off track we get bothered by it.


----------



## TelkEvolon

I think he has always been pretty close to general consensus. Normaly only one rating off and that has normally been giving something ****3/4 instead of *****.


----------



## geraldinhio

Dave Meltzer has not given any Bryan Danielson match 5 stars , or Nigel too for that matter. That's one of the reasons I don't take him serious. Elgin vs Richards is so flawed compared to any Danielson/Nigel matches. It's a joke really.


----------



## TelkEvolon

Doesn't seem like that much of a big deal or a reason not to take someone seriously.

I think you do take him seriously and that's why it matters.


He has always given them fair reviews.


----------



## Chismo

Why people take Meltzer seriously in 2012 is beyond me. Seriously, it's not 80s, folks. Move the fuck on. lolmeltzer



BKKsoulcity said:


> Elgin and Richards match. They had no prior history at all with eachother and with that there was no way they would be able to tell a story with eachother.


What a horseshit. Lawls.


----------



## Caponex75

To be honest, I don't think I've given a 5 star rating to any Bryan Danielson matches but he has allot of ****3/4 matches from me. I did give a five star to Richards/Danielson but I'm thinking about changing that to the border rating as well. Doesn't mean I think any less of Danielson but it's just that I don't believe he has that match yet.



> How in the hell do you play up a review? Its an expression of one's opinion on a match. Am I just being naiive or something because I really can't follow that trail of thought.


Being natural means he doesn't seem to be trying to nitpick. In your review, you would never give the match a positive before stacking on negatives. It is giving people the idea that you are trying your best to make the match seem as if it sucked. Hence you are playing up to something. Like I would never write a negative essay about something I don't really like or care to much about where as if a match impresses me so much, I'll sing the positives of it. That's why I have a big argument as to why Strong/Stevens is 5 stars and there is a reason why I don't have book on why Chris Hero/Castagnoli was a waste of fucking time. Get it?

edit: It can also mean you have no real emotion to it as well I believe.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Caponex75 said:


> Being natural means he doesn't seem to be trying to nitpick. In your review, you would never give the match a positive before stacking on negatives. It is giving people the idea that you are trying your best to make the match seem as if it sucked. Hence you are playing up to something. Like I would never write a negative essay about something I don't really like or care to much about where as if a match impresses me so much, I'll sing the positives of it. That's why I have a big argument as to why Strong/Stevens is 5 stars and there is a reason why I don't have book on why Chris Hero/Castagnoli was a waste of fucking time. Get it?
> 
> edit: It can also mean you have no real emotion to it as well I believe.


The match was being regarded as one of the best matches in years and a surefire ***** bout on here, if I'd have slapped a 6 line review and then gone **3/4 people would have jumped on me with comments about me being a hater, not liking it because its Richards etc etc.

I put up every argument as to why I didn't like it, in case anyone wanted to offer an alternative explanation as to why they thought the opening was better than I did, why the middle perhaps didn't drag as much etc etc etc. I'd sooner talk too much about certain key aspects of the match rather than give a very brief analysis and then slap on a rating that is likely to be seen as too low by a lot of people judging by the reaction so far.

I talked in the opening paragraph about what I particularly liked, and even devoted another paragraph praising Elgin's build to the spinning powerbomb. I did then talk about why the spot as good as it was could have been better, but I feel I gave a good overview of what I enjoyed and why the match came across as potentially being great rather than an outright bad match.


----------



## Legend

I don't think he's directly insulting you, SC. I haven't seen you ever attack another's opinion as wrong.

I don't believe that opinions are only valid if you give a lengthy explanation as to why you hold one. For example, a good writer could summarise why they did/did not like something in a single sentence. A debate or discussion does not always have to comprise of two sets of lengthy diatribe. In many ways it is much more skilful to argue your point clearly, concisely and, most importantly of all, quickly. People who write lengthy reviews and then show total disregard toward others who choose not to write at a similar length run the risk of nullifying their opinion as nothing more than fan-boy pseudo-intellectual conjecture.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Ok, when I read it and saw 'in your review' I took it to mean he was explaining the point by looking at my review, especially as I did have a lot of negative aspects of the match in my review. Apologies *Caponex* if you were speaking generally.

*Legend* I agree with you there, its just I prefer to cover my bases in regards to picking out certain aspects of the match I didn't like and citing an example, rather than leaving it general and then someone comes along and asks me to expand on my argument and I have to go off of memory...which can usually result in me thinking something took place when it didn't. I also don't really plan on rewatching it anytime soon so I figured I'd cover as much as I could for future reference, i.e I can recall my feeling regarding the Guardrail Powerbomb spot now just be re-reading that part of my review, which will help if someone picks upon that segment of the match and asks me to explain further what I didn't like/felt was capable of being improved.


----------



## Caponex75

Segunda Caida said:


> The match was being regarded as one of the best matches in years and a surefire ***** bout on here, if I'd have slapped a 6 line review and then gone **3/4 people would have jumped on me with comments about me being a hater, not liking it because its Richards etc etc.


Um People can still do that whether you write a essay or not >_> I wrote 5 or something paragraphs on why HHH/Taker could even appeal to AJPW fans and people still though I was crazy except for Joe Rulz.



> I put up every argument as to why I didn't like it, in case anyone wanted to offer an alternative explanation as to why they thought the opening was better than I did, why the middle perhaps didn't drag as much etc etc etc. I'd sooner talk too much about certain key aspects of the match rather than give a very brief analysis and then slap on a rating that is likely to be seen as too low by a lot of people judging by the reaction so far.


Being honest, I just scanned most of your essay and provided why people may not see it as organic. If I felt like arguing your points(While I don't really care for your rating), we would be on page 60 right now.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I'm aware you don't NEED to write a long review whcih will automatically have you an argument no-one will disagree with, I'm just saying I wrote a longer review because there was a lot of competing elements in the match I liked and disliked and I found it easy to go into detail to explain as I thought necessary given how popular and well received the match had been on this board since it aired. If I thought it was an abortion of a match I'd have kept it relatively shorter, though even when I HATE a match I'll still go into detail as I feel its important to when you're reviewing a match, not essential if others can keep it briefer but as I've said before I can always go into quite a long review even when I don't intend to...shit just gets out of control and I find myself so wrapped up in trying to argue about certain spots/characteristics that I forget just how long the review is going to be by the end.

End of the day I felt there was a lot of things to talk about in the match and in typical me fashion I rambled like a mad prick at times and covered far more than even I thought I would have done. I don't see that as being fake or playing up my review, I just see it as an honest expression of my feelings on the match and trying to explain my reasoning for not liking a very popular match as much as others.


----------



## flag sabbath

ViolenceIsGolden said:


> I like Dave Meltzers review better. Meltzers review was more organic and built up properly than your review.


Y'all realise that the comment that spawned this great debate was a throwaway sarcastic dig using terms from Segunda's review, right?


----------



## Concrete

You don't need write lengthy explanations to have a valid opinion but you should be able to back up your opinion and SC does that better than most people on this board. This is probably why I don't see pages upon pages of debate on his rating of a match. He isn't a completely Negative Nancy like some people may be when they write a lot. We are having a bigger problem with someone saying the review didn't seem natural. I honestly thought it was meant as a joke. I have seen in a few reviews of how there wasn't a good flow to a match and how the match didn't build. So I thought he was just being snarky but I could be wrong.

I honestly haven't seen the match and I usually wait to spend my money on dvds a little later so I can focus on the top matches without blowing my load before something truly great comes. I have faith that some awesome stuff will eventually come out of the indys but I'm not sure if Davey/Elgin is that match. I think that people really digging this match could help lead up to that EPIC match. Knowing that the fans are expecting something great, the wrestlers should be able to try and give the fans just that because if they don't then they will get shit all over. I know ROH wants the big money match to be Steen vs Davey but after watching their match in PWG I'm just not sure how good it will be. And Steen has been able to make these hardcore matches in ROH awesome but that's not what he will probably get against Davey. If DGUSA puts on an awesome match it will probably come out of nowhere since I don't really see anyone here gushing over DGUSA on a regular basis. It sounds like PWG's KRR3 wasn't the greatest ever but I wasn't expecting it to be. We won't know anything about World's Finest until it is out. DDT4 looks decent, but now that there is a Generico/Mack team it will be interesting to see how it goes. The opening round match with them against Roddy/Callihan could very well decide the tournament leading either team to go against Super Dragon/Steen. Now that would be pretty sweet. CHIKARA isn't known for putting on MOTYC instead they are known for consistency and just good story telling with stories that last a long time and always produce results. That doesn't mean they aren't capable of MOTYC, ala El Generico/123 Kid and Kingston/Quack, but that just isn't their primary focus. We have just gotten into Q2 of the year and there have been a lot of great matches in Japan I just feel that some great American Indy matches are coming. Can't blame a kid for hoping.


----------



## TelkEvolon

I think a long winded negative review comes off a lot worse than a short one.

It just ends up seeming like harping on and the reasons for not liking something generaly seem petty when put out into words one after the other. Looks more like trying to justify it to yourself than anything else.

I think the less specific the better unless someone asks. "I didn't like it because of some of the issues I had with selling." is a lot easier to get past than hearing that someone didn't like a match because a wrestler got up to fast from a powerbomb and that a wrestler kicked out at 1 instead of 2.

All those small issues build into a big issue with a certain aspect of a match, by themselves it just looks like 'nit picking'.

But like everything else, that's just how I see it sometimes and why a long negative review might receive more hate.


----------



## Legend

My criticism wasn't of SC at all. It was more a comment on the problem plaguing other reviews. SC's a great poster. Plus, the man likes Jerry Lawler and Andy Kaufman! (Y)


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Legend said:


> Plus, the man likes Jerry Lawler and Andy Kaufman! (Y)


*loves.

As should anyone priviliged to have seen that feud and its segments.

BTW, speaking of the wonderful angle there's a great article covering it as its now in its 30th anniversary: http://edition.cnn.com/2012/04/07/us/kaufman-lawler-wrestling-match/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

Awesome read.


----------



## TelkEvolon

Only the ignorant don't love The King.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Someone once said Joey Styles was more important and left a greater legacy on the business than Jerry Lawler. May have been one of the very few times I was left speechless at the ignorance and stupidity I was reading. Hell I felt like I lost some of my intelligence just by reading that drivel.


----------



## milkman7

Segunda Caida said:


> Someone once said Joey Styles was more important and left a greater legacy on the business than Jerry Lawler. May have been one of the very few times I was left speechless at the ignorance and stupidity I was reading. Hell I felt like I lost some of my intelligence just by reading that drivel.


Wow. I kind of feel empty inside. I shouldn't have come to this thread. My heart hurts.


----------



## TelkEvolon

It's scary to think how many people just know Lawler as the king of bad puns and old jokes.

It'd be like just knowing JR for his BBQ!


----------



## Legend

Segunda Caida said:


> *loves.
> 
> As should anyone priviliged to have seen that feud and its segments.
> 
> BTW, speaking of the wonderful angle there's a great article covering it as its now in its 30th anniversary: http://edition.cnn.com/2012/04/07/us/kaufman-lawler-wrestling-match/index.html?hpt=hp_c1
> 
> Awesome read.


Cheers, SC. That was a great read. Just confirms what we already know - he may have wrestled only 1 or 2 matches, was in the business for barely a year, and yet Andy Kaufman is the greatest heel of all time.



On a subjective level of course :side:


----------



## WOOLCOCK

He's the heel every snivelling coward/obnoxious douche aims to be. He just had to speak and people wanted him to be murdered before their eyes. It didn't matter whether he was made to look great or the biggest pussy on the planet, the man's mannerisms, personality and voice just made everyone hate him and allowed him to make an angle based around wrestling women feel less ridiculous than it had any right to be.

The fact he and Lawler managed to work as many people into believing it was real and took a regional feud onto Late night with Letterman and made the feud mainstream in under 10 minutes just speaks volumes about its greatness. And of course, THAT SLAP.

:mark: :mark: :mark: 








Long Live Kaufman!!!







*and Lawler..


----------



## antoniomare007

flag sabbath said:


> Y'all realise that the comment that spawned this great debate was a throwaway sarcastic dig using terms from Segunda's review, right?


I know I did. I'm actually shocked that post created all that useless discussion, lol. 



BUBZ said:


> Yeah, the flying elbow to Sasaki's neck was awesome, even all of Sekimoto's forearms were directed straight at the neck. Definitely an awesome match but I'm not completely sold on Sasaki yet and thought his selling could have been better which is my only real complaint. But IMO, Sekimoto's performance in this is easily the best individual performance of the year by far, and it's gonna' take something incredible to top it.


I didn't think Yoshihito's selling was lacking (I guess you could make a case when he did the Argentine Back Breaker, but that's being way too nickpicky imo). The whole point of the match was him being able to overcome The Ace and he did it in a pretty logical way for puroresu standards imo.


----------



## Chismo

I barely have any free time recently, but I managed to watch *Callihan/Sasaki* at least, and it was really fucking great. Great psychological tests of strength, great storytelling told through some really stiff chops and strikes. These guys are awesome, especially Sasaki. Callihan is great as usual too, he has that swag and Japs like him. Great match, 11 minutes of awesome. With more time, it could've been a legit MOTYC. ****1/2*


----------



## rizzotherat

Segunda Caida is some sort of Death Valley Driver Review/Segunda Caida blog tribute message board account or the real deal?


----------



## WOOLCOCK

The Segunda Caida blog was something I read frequently before I joined, I wanted a decent name and being a lazy uncreative shit that popped into my head. I'm also a pretty big Lucha fan and 'segunda caida' is Mexican for 2nd fall so yeah, I'm not one of the contributors to the blog or anything.


----------



## rizzotherat

Segunda Caida said:


> The Segunda Caida blog was something I read frequently before I joined, I wanted a decent name and being a lazy uncreative shit that popped into my head. I'm also a pretty big Lucha fan and 'segunda caida' is Mexican for 2nd fall so yeah, I'm not one of the contributors to the blog or anything.


Why do you have note for note opinions? Bizarre.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

How so? I generally have similar tastes in wrestling to a few of the people on that blog, such as a fondness of character work, selling, storytelling etc. 

I'm unsure as to what you're trying to argue here?


----------



## antoniomare007

god dammit Segunda, stop discussing stupid shit and go watch quality wrestling .


----------



## rizzotherat

Segunda Caida said:


> How so? I generally have similar tastes in wrestling to a few of the people on that blog, such as a fondness of character work, selling, storytelling etc.
> 
> I'm unsure as to what you're trying to argue here?


Just bizarre that's all. Even the Death Valley Driver/Segunda Caida have past comment on it and noticed how creepy it is mostly due to the username. May as well be El Hijo Del Phil Schneider.


----------



## Cactus

Segunda's not Phil Schneider? Eh. Always thought he was.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Nope, never claimed to have been either. I answered his last post via PM since I didn't see the point in further going off topic in this thread (yes I realise the irony in writing this reply).

I came across the blog before joining, found it helpful and figured it was a decent username when registering here.

Now let's get back to talking about potential MOTYCs, or Lawler/Kaufman. Whichever :side:


----------



## rizzotherat

Cactus said:


> Segunda's not Phil Schneider? Eh. Always thought he was.


I had the same initial thoughts until Phil himself shot it down.

Segunda mirrors his view points to a staggering degree. If he is completely sincere his username helps very little. I don't want to call him a biter but he should seriously establish himself independently as I really dont think the simarilites are completely organic.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

Random post: Based on what I've read on DVDVR and the people that post there, most of them are VERY similar in how they explain their opinions, how they post, and what they like. Hell, I remember doing an IP check on Segunda when he first showed up because I thought he was a re-joiner with the way he posted :lmao (obviously not on this forum as I wasn't a mod at them time).


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I can see what Rizzo is saying, I mean I've never tried to pose as Phil Schneider or anything like that, but I can accept that I do share largely similar opinions to a fair few workers as he does, hell I can freely admit that quite a few guys on the blog as well as some people in the DVD thread (Cal, Andy3000, Yeah1993) etc are responsible for actually making me rewatch old matches after I took a break from wrestling because I saw guys like HBK and Angle etc being called out for having more flaws then I ever remembered them having (fuck Angle was a favourite of mine during 2004-2006) and actually being responsible for me slowly beginning to see their argument.

I definitely see where he's coming from though, I've seen a lot of matches talked about on DVDVR and occasionally WKO and when I've taken the time to watch most of those matches its very rare I've disagreed with the general consensus about whether the match was good/bad etc. I'd like to think I've offered my own opinion on enough matches to be recongised by some as not a clone of the DVDVR crew and someone who can think for themselves, though I can definitely understand where Rizzo is coming from in regard to similarities.

Also Cal I remember you asking me whether I was a re-joiner when I first began posting in the DVD thread :lmao.


----------



## TelkEvolon

If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck....


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

Then its a cat dressed as a duck.


----------



## seancarleton77

Volador Jr. vs Prince Devitt (CMLL 2012-03-30) ****+


----------



## Yeah1993

I have nothing of any importance to add but "El Hijo del Phil Schneider" made me laugh my head off

The differnces b/w Segunda Caida (the one on here) and Schneider are ridiculously obvious, though. Honestly if I read a review of each guy back-to-back I'd have no clue how anyone could mix them up. SC's like twenty years younger, too (does that have anything to do with anything? Probably not, IDK).

I don't think there's anyone on this forum who really types too similarly at all to a Segunda Caida (the blog- GODDAMNIT STEFFAN) writer.


----------



## Bubz

Last few pages were rather amusing lol.


----------



## jawbreaker

it would be amazing if there was a widely read wrestling blogger who typed in one-line run-on sentences with little regard for capitalization or punctuation and told everyone their opinions were wrong


----------



## peachchaos

Funny stuff. I never considered that they weren't the same person, but it really makes no difference either way. I'd say its a dumb handle anyway, but look who's talking!


----------



## Chismo

*Akira Tozawa & BxB Hulk vs. The Jimmyz (Dragon Gate, Infinity 252)*

HOLY BALLS! Why is no one talking about this super duper awesome match? This was balls-to-the-walls awesome. This was an epitome of the tornado/lucha tag style. I thoroughly enjoy any match where I get to see Hulk kick people and do Mouse, so this was no exception. His strikes are uber awesome, he can kick you from any position imaginable. And when you add the BITW candidate Tozawa, crazy Susumu and the underrated KAGEORA, with the tag titles on the line - you get nothing but the awesomeness. The storytelling is very simple here. You got the two evenly matched teams who hate each other and want to win the match at any cost. Which leads us to one helluva athletic rush hour with smashing, decapitating moves and with incredible nearfalls and great drama. My #2 for Puro so far, right behind Okada/Naito. Fucking incredible.
*Rating: ****3/4*


----------



## Cactus

*Low-Ki vs El Generico
EVOLVE 11: Callihan vs Finlay; (2012/04/13)*

_This was bloody fantastic. Low Ki's strong style background visually intimidated Generico. He flinched after Low-Ki attempted a strike and when Generico tried to return the favor, Low-Ki just stared at him like a motherfucker who then proceeds to beat the living crap out of Generico. Generico needs to find something to combat Low Ki's offense and he eventually does with his speed. This told a great story and ended at the right time, something a lot of EVOLVE matches struggle to do._

_*Rating: *****_

*Dave 'Fit' Finlay vs Sami Callihan
EVOLVE 11: Callihan vs Finlay; (2012/04/13)*

_Limbwork, stiff strikes and MANLINESS~! Both men bleed the hardway by headbutting each other. In a similar vein to their last match at EVOLVE, Finlay dishes out most of the beating. At the time, the spot where both men knock each other down with dueling kicks not once, not twice, but THREE times did annoy me, but when I look back on it now on how it made the closing minutes even more epic. The final counter was also fucking epic, but I'm not going to spoil that for you. As of now, this is my MOTY._

*Rating: ****½*


----------



## Bubz

So is it better than their last match? I didn't seem to take to that one like everyone else did.


----------



## Cactus

BUBZ said:


> So is it better than their last match? I didn't seem to take to that one like everyone else did.


I can't say. I only caught the first five minutes of their first match.


----------



## flag sabbath

JoeRulz said:


> *Akira Tozawa & BxB Hulk vs. The Jimmyz (Dragon Gate, Infinity 252)*
> 
> HOLY BALLS! Why is no one talking about this super duper awesome match? This was balls-to-the-walls awesome. This was an epitome of the tornado/lucha tag style. I thoroughly enjoy any match where I get to see Hulk kick people and do Mouse, so this was no exception. His strikes are uber awesome, he can kick you from any position imaginable. And when you add the BITW candidate Tozawa, crazy Susumu and the underrated KAGEORA, with the tag titles on the line - you get nothing but the awesomeness. The storytelling is very simple here. You got the two evenly matched teams who hate each other and want to win the match at any cost. Which leads us to one helluva athletic rush hour with smashing, decapitating moves and with incredible nearfalls and great drama. My #2 for Puro so far, right behind Okada/Naito. Fucking incredible.
> *Rating: ****3/4*


Yes! In fact, Infinity 252 is the best episode of regular tv I've seen from any promotion this year. It revolves around establishing all-new factions, so it's a great jump-on point for new or returning fans, and the matches are superb:

Doi vs. Ricochet ****1/2*
Mochizuki, Fuji & Gamma vs Horiguchi, Saito & Kanda ******
Hulk & Tozawa vs The Jimmys *****1/2*
Cima vs Pac ******

Awesome show.


----------



## Chismo

flag sabbath said:


> Yes! In fact, Infinity 252 is the best episode of regular tv I've seen from any promotion this year. It revolves around establishing all-new factions, so it's a great jump-on point for new or returning fans, and the matches are superb:
> 
> Doi vs. Ricochet ****1/2*
> Mochizuki, Fuji & Gamma vs Horiguchi, Saito & Kanda ******
> Hulk & Tozawa vs The Jimmys *****1/2*
> Cima vs Pac ******
> 
> Awesome show.


Yes, it was an outstanding edition. Sure, they clipped the matches, but you barely even notice it during the action. And once again I gotta express my love for the Blankey/Jimmyz tag match. Tag MOTY, easily.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

Didn't think much to Finlay/Calihan tbh. First match was great, and a top 5 MOTY for me, and ****. This one had it moments, and I'd still give it around ***1/4, but thought it got a little dull in the middle. How is their match from... Germany (forgot the promotion lol)? Only asking because the commentators bring it up during this one lol.


----------



## Chismo

It happened in wXw, and I think it's not out yet.


----------



## EraOfHonorBegins

Took Highspots awhile, but they finally have the April DVD Sampler.

Well worth the wait, as this looks like the best one they have had in months.

1. ECW FanCam (11-20-98) 
2. PWS Freshman Phenom 
3. Nick Dinsmore Shoot Interview 
4. WSU - Push It To The Limit 
5. PWG - DDT 2009 
6. CZW - Best of the Best 2 
7. DGUSA - Fearless 2011 
8. DDP WrestleReunion Shoot 
9. FIP Melbourne Meltdown (5-26-07) 
10. TNA Final Resolution 2006

You can get more info (and even all the match listings) from this link.

Obvious gold like PWG DDT 2009 and DGUSA Fearless 2011, and potential gems like the ECW fancam show that has Jerry Lynn vs RVD, in the ninties they always delivered! 

I'm glad they finally put a big CZW show on there. Even those who don't like CZW know that the yearly Best of the Best is really when CZW brings their "A" game. I haven't seen it, but on BotB 10 a commentator listed all the previous winners, so I have an idea, but not positive, which will add to the fun of watching the show.

The only dvd I already have is the TNA one. It's a good show though, Daniels vs Joe is as great as you would assume. It's also Sting's first match in TNA and the crowd reaction is amazing.

I'm hoping I can spare the money for it, it was either Nov or Dec that I really wanted to buy, but never made the effort to do it, and then each month afterward would have a few decent to good dvds, but then a ton of crap. This month is very well balanced.


----------



## jaw2929

flag sabbath said:


> Yes! In fact, Infinity 252 is the best episode of regular tv I've seen from any promotion this year. It revolves around establishing all-new factions, so it's a great jump-on point for new or returning fans, and the matches are superb:
> 
> Doi vs. Ricochet ****1/2*
> Mochizuki, Fuji & Gamma vs Horiguchi, Saito & Kanda ******
> Hulk & Tozawa vs The Jimmys *****1/2*
> Cima vs Pac ******
> 
> Awesome show.


Speaking of which, how would I "jump on" if I wanted to? As in watch on a regular basis?


----------



## milkman7

Dave Finlay -vs- Sami Callihan (EVOLVE 11 in Canada; 2012-04-13)

This is easily the best indie match of the year so far. Two guys that are currently the best guys working the indies do all the things that make them better than all the other schmucks working the same scene. They didn't try to go a hundred miles an hour for the sake of having a "this is awesome" chant (even though they did get one, ugh, but at least it deserved it,) they didn't trade a bunch of finishers, and they sold everything like they should have. They worked very stiff. Finlay chunked Sami into the ropes on his slams, which make them look twice as nasty. He slammed Sami's leg into the ringpost the way that would hyperextend his leg. The hardway headbutt was vicious and delicious. All the unique things these guys do really set them apart, and it led to them having the best match not involving a guy named ***** Casas this year.


----------



## flag sabbath

jaw2929 said:


> Speaking of which, how would I "jump on" if I wanted to? As in watch on a regular basis?


Google 'open the dragon gate' & for in-depth reviews of the shows try 'garoon gate'.


----------



## Pickaldo

JoeRulz said:


> *Akira Tozawa & BxB Hulk vs. The Jimmyz (Dragon Gate, Infinity 252)*
> 
> HOLY BALLS! Why is no one talking about this super duper awesome match? This was balls-to-the-walls awesome. This was an epitome of the tornado/lucha tag style. I thoroughly enjoy any match where I get to see Hulk kick people and do Mouse, so this was no exception. His strikes are uber awesome, he can kick you from any position imaginable. And when you add the BITW candidate Tozawa, crazy Susumu and the underrated KAGEORA, with the tag titles on the line - you get nothing but the awesomeness. The storytelling is very simple here. You got the two evenly matched teams who hate each other and want to win the match at any cost. Which leads us to one helluva athletic rush hour with smashing, decapitating moves and with incredible nearfalls and great drama. My #2 for Puro so far, right behind Okada/Naito. Fucking incredible.
> *Rating: ****3/4*


I watched this earlier and thought it was pretty good, your post made me re-watch it and yeah it really was super duper awesome!



jaw2929 said:


> Speaking of which, how would I "jump on" if I wanted to? As in watch on a regular basis?


http://www.openthedragongate.com/index.php/2012/03/infinity-252/
Enjoy.


----------



## Chismo

Pickaldo said:


> I watched this earlier and thought it was pretty good, your post made me re-watch it and yeah it really was super duper awesome!


Yeah, I simply LOVE that match. The finishing stretch was fucking insane. Tag MOTY, by far.


----------



## Certified G

That Ricochet vs Naruki Doi match from Dragon Gate Infinity 252 was pretty awesome too imo!


----------



## jaw2929

Pickaldo said:


> I watched this earlier and thought it was pretty good, your post made me re-watch it and yeah it really was super duper awesome!
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.openthedragongate.com/index.php/2012/03/infinity-252/
> Enjoy.


Hey thanks Pickaldo!


----------



## xXMC KnupXx

JoeRulz said:


> Yeah, I simply LOVE that match. The finishing stretch was fucking insane. Tag MOTY, by far.


Dont get me wrong.. i liked the match a lot, and while i may be in the minority i love KAGETORA, but him botching a few of his moves hurt it for me, which is weird cause i usually dont give a shit about that sorta stuff. KAGE almost KILLED Hulk with his side spinning slam thing he does.

Personally i liked the Triangle Gate match a little better, but could do without so much of Gammas spit everywhere.


----------



## ddog121

Showdown in the Sun:
Night 1
Kevin Steen v. El Generico ****1/4
Davey Richards v. Roderick Strong v. Eddie Edwards ****

Night 2
Davey Richards v. Michael Elgin ***** (Yeah, this was amazing and Nigel killed on commentary.)


----------



## Rickey

*TNA Lockdown 2012**avoids a thrown chair*
Roode/Storm
Also enjoyed Angle/Hardy


----------



## Caponex75

Watched Finlay vs. Sami and man this match was a let down. No drama, random stiffness, near falls that were quite anti-climatic, and the finish felt like things were going in the right direction but ended up actually being the finish. *** at best. Might be even lower considering how bored I was and how utterly fucking confusing the face in perils comebacks were as well as the on and off leg work. Oh and Sami's attempts at being deviant came across as forced. Even Lenny seemed bored.

I'll go into further detail later but the HIAC and Richards/Elgins I gave the border ratings(****3/4).


----------



## milkman7

Caponex75 said:


> Watched Finlay vs. Sami and man this match was a let down. No drama, random stiffness, near falls that were quite anti-climatic, and the finish felt like things were going in the right direction but ended up actually being the finish. *** at best. Might be even lower considering how bored I was and how utterly fucking confusing the face in perils comebacks were as well as the on and off leg work. Oh and Sami's attempts at being deviant came across as forced. Even Lenny seemed bored.
> 
> I'll go into further detail later but the HIAC and Richards/Elgins I gave the border ratings(****3/4).


Really? How were the near-falls anti-climactic? How is stiffness random? Especially when the whole match was stiff? How is there no drama in a match where the resilient youngster that has no respect tries to take the torch by force from the grizzled veteran, but the veteran is too smart for him? I will take this "drama" over the Hell in a Cell B-Movie bad acting + dialogue "drama" any day of the week.


----------



## rizzotherat

Caponex75 said:


> Watched Finlay vs. Sami and man this match was a let down. No drama, random stiffness, near falls that were quite anti-climatic, and the finish felt like things were going in the right direction but ended up actually being the finish. *** at best. Might be even lower considering how bored I was and how utterly fucking confusing the face in perils comebacks were as well as the on and off leg work. Oh and Sami's attempts at being deviant came across as forced. Even Lenny seemed bored.


It is a Finlay match so people will drill deep as possible to find SOMETHING to like about it or they'll just make things up. As he is "new" guy for people.


----------



## milkman7

rizzotherat said:


> It is a Finlay match so people will drill deep as possible to find SOMETHING to like about it or they'll just make things up. As he is "new" guy for people.


You don't have to drill. The goodness seeps out of every possible orifice. I don't know how Finlay is "new." He is almost a 40-year vet, and he has already been working the indie scene for about ten months. Please explain how anybody made anything up that isn't true.


----------



## rizzotherat

milkman7 said:


> You don't have to drill. The goodness seeps out of every possible orifice. I don't know how Finlay is "new." He is almost a 40-year vet, and he has already been working the indie scene for about ten months. Please explain how anybody made anything up that isn't true.


Ascribing genius and "OMG he is making things matter WOW" to him just taking a mid match breather. He's good but people only started to write poetry about him after the DVDR board adopted him as a hero in the late 00s.


----------



## milkman7

rizzotherat said:


> Ascribing genius and "OMG he is making things matter WOW" to him just taking a mid match breather. He's good but people only started to write poetry about him after the DVDR board adopted him as a hero in the late 00s.


Okay, but what's bad about _him_? You haven't actually pointed out any flaws.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xg...teven-regal-vs-fit-finlay_sport?search_algo=1


----------



## rizzotherat

milkman7 said:


> Okay, but what's bad about _him_? You haven't actually pointed out any flaws.
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xg...teven-regal-vs-fit-finlay_sport?search_algo=1


He doesn't really connect with most audiences with his wrestling and he is actually fairly slow & out of shape during this indy run.

No idea why you are linking to that match. Bar underscoring he only had one really memorable match WCW and that was due to the stip.


----------



## milkman7

rizzotherat said:


> He doesn't really connect with most audiences with his wrestling and he is actually fairly slow & out of shape during this indy run.
> 
> No idea why you are linking to that match. Bar underscoring he only had one really memorable match WCW and that was due to the stip.


I linked that match because it was great. 

Okay. Yeah he is slow paced, but I fail to see how that is a bad thing. It allows for selling, which is the cornerstone of professional wrestling. I don't see how he is out of shape, other than his stomach is a little rounder. Don't think that takes away from match quality.

Also, out of curiosity, who are guys working the indies right now that are better in your opinion? Just so I can have some kind of an idea of what you like in your professional wrestling.


----------



## rizzotherat

milkman7 said:


> Also, out of curiosity, who are guys working the indies right now that are better in your opinion? Just so I can have some kind of an idea of what you like in your professional wrestling.


Off the top of my head El Generico, Steen and Tozawa when he is over. Neither a huge strong style or flippy guy. I just like good wrestling.


----------



## milkman7

rizzotherat said:


> Off the top of my head El Generico, Steen and Tozawa when he is over. Neither a huge strong style or flippy guy. *I just like good wrestling.*


The bolded part is probably the most obvious thing you could say. Nobody watches (what they consider) bad wrestling and likes it.


----------



## rizzotherat

milkman7 said:


> The bolded part is probably the most obvious thing you could say. Nobody watches (what they consider) bad wrestling and likes it.


You are getting cranky now. Settle down dear.


----------



## milkman7

rizzotherat said:


> You are getting cranky now. Settle down dear.


I wouldn't say I'm cranky, I am just trying to have a discussion with you.

So, what do those guys do better than Finlay?

Do they sell better? Do they have better offense? I am just trying to figure out how those guys are better. Because to me, Finlay has really brutal offense. Which none of those guys can touch. Finlay sells better than any of those guys. Those guys may get a smarky crowd fired up more than Finlay, but Finlay is a no-nonsense asskicker. So why would he try to clap his hands to get the crowd fired up? Or anything similar to that?

You see, I just want to see what you see, or at least see why you see what you see.


----------



## Caponex75

milkman7 said:


> Really? How were the near-falls anti-climactic?


No excitement and weren't built at all. Finlay kicked him to the outside and just smacked him with Celtic Cross. That was it....oh and Sami kicked out randomly at one. The only real nearfall that was built up was the Tombstone due to their previous match and I didn't really care for it. Plus Sami not knowing where to appropriately taught made his deviant acts seem like amateur hour.




> How is stiffness random? Especially when the whole match was stiff? How is there no drama in a match where the resilient youngster that has no respect tries to take the torch by force from the grizzled veteran, but the veteran is too smart for him? I will take this "drama" over the Hell in a Cell B-Movie bad acting + dialogue "drama" any day of the week.


Being stiff is awesome like Finlay headbutting the nonsense out of Calihan but they began to over do and made me not care at all about it. Instead of structuring a great match, it was just "O
LEZ HIT ECH OTTER HARD". If there is no real importance on selling, timing, or facial expressions, it isn't real hard for your average Joe to replicate. It's real fucking boring compared to a match with Ki/KENTA where they have the insanely stiff match but the other elements which make a match great(Like comebacks, storytelling, and facial expressions).

Your idea if what you thought was drama/story is great and all but if it isn't executed properly, there isn't exactly a reason for the crowd to give a fuck. I got the idea of Callihan didn't like Finlay and Finlay was some combination of a hard hitting vet but the way it was portrayed was done absolutely poorly. Sami's drooling and attempts at saying f you didn't draw sympathy or really lead to great face in peril like in his last match. The one where he was getting his ass beat and there actually didn't seem like there was nothing he could do about it. HHH/Taker had a near flawless match because everything made sense and while you may say there was a over acting(All opinionated of course), it was built up off of previous matches. More importantly from last year.

Triple H beat the ever loving dog shit out of Taker the previous Mania and it was so bad that Taker couldn't even show face despite being the victor. As soon as HHH gets the chance in the Cell, he makes Taker his own personal Kunta Kinte and HBK, a former wrestler with injuries and has also got his ass whipped by HHH on several occasions, tries to stop it so Taker(A man he respects) can at least do a feat he didn't do last year and that is not look a vegetable. It makes sense, it is executed well, and everything is on point.


----------



## rizzotherat

milkman7 said:


> I wouldn't say I'm cranky, I am just trying to have a discussion with you.
> 
> So, what do those guys do better than Finlay?
> 
> Do they sell better? Do they have better offense? I am just trying to figure out how those guys are better. Because to me, Finlay has really brutal offense. Which none of those guys can touch. Finlay sells better than any of those guys. Those guys may get a smarky crowd fired up more than Finlay, but Finlay is a no-nonsense asskicker. So why would he try to clap his hands to get the crowd fired up? Or anything similar to that?
> 
> You see, I just want to see what you see, or at least see why you see what you see.


I think you've your mind already made up given your "smarky crowd" line. Just seems like a waste of time discussing this. Also Finlay doesnt really light a fire under casual fans either so again I dont get the whole smarky crowd distinction. At least the guys I mentioned have an audience and connect with them. He may know the right the time to kick an opponents knee out from under them but the positive bias can be really overblown and silly at times.


----------



## milkman7

Caponex75 said:


> No excitement and weren't built at all. Finlay kicked him to the outside and just smacked him with Celtic Cross. That was it....oh and Sami kicked out randomly at one. The only real nearfall that was built up was the Tombstone due to their previous match and I didn't really care for it. Plus Sami not knowing where to appropriately taught made his deviant acts seem like amateur hour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Being stiff is awesome like Finlay headbutting the nonsense out of Calihan but they began to over do and made me not care at all about it. Instead of structuring a great match, it was just "O
> LEZ HIT ECH OTTER HARD". If there is no real importance on selling, timing, or facial expressions, it isn't real hard for your average Joe to replicate. It's real fucking boring compared to a match with Ki/KENTA where they have the insanely stiff match but the other elements which make a match great(Like comebacks, storytelling, and facial expressions).
> 
> Your idea if what you thought was drama/story is great and all but if it isn't executed properly, there isn't exactly a reason for the crowd to give a fuck. I got the idea of Callihan didn't like Finlay and Finlay was some combination of a hard hitting vet but the way it was portrayed was done absolutely poorly. Sami's drooling and attempts at saying f you didn't draw sympathy or really lead to great face in peril like in his last match. The one where he was getting his ass beat and there actually didn't seem like there was nothing he could do about it. HHH/Taker had a near flawless match because everything made sense and while you may say there was a over acting(All opinionated of course), it was built up off of previous matches. More importantly from last year.
> 
> Triple H beat the ever loving dog shit out of Taker the previous Mania and it was so bad that Taker couldn't even show face despite being the victor. As soon as HHH gets the chance in the Cell, he makes Taker his own personal Kunta Kinte and HBK, a former wrestler with injuries and has also got his ass whipped by HHH on several occasions, tries to stop it so Taker(A man he respects) can at least do a feat he didn't do last year and that is not look a vegetable. It makes sense, it is executed well, and everything is on point.


I don't think there is anything I will say that would change anything you think about either match. So I guess it's cool that you found stuff to like in the Hell in a Cell match, personally I thought it was garbage. But, it sucks you didn't like Finlay/Callihan as much as me.


----------



## Chismo

People who think Finlay is not good are what's wrong with today's fans. One of the most underrated in-ring generals and storytellers ever. Brock Lesnar is not "legit", Fit Finlay is. Oh, and I'm very surprised that people didn't recognize the storytelling in Finlay/Callihan III. Do you know anything about Sami's character in DGUSA/EVOLVE?


----------



## Caponex75

Just to clear things up, Finlay is good but I thought the match was incredibly meh.


----------



## Cactus

JoeRulz said:


> People who think Finlay is not good are what's wrong with today's fans. One of the most underrated in-ring generals and storytellers ever. Brock Lesnar is not "legit", Fit Finlay is. Oh, and I'm very surprised that people didn't recognize the storytelling in Finlay/Callihan III. Do you know anything about Sami's character in DGUSA/EVOLVE?


I'm a huge Finlay mark but that's coming off as extremely elitist. I would majorly facepalm if someone said that Davey Richards was better than Finlay but at the end of the day it's all subjective. I can totally see how people may find Finlay boring due to the spot-heavy nature of the indies today, but even if I don't agree with that statement, I don't think their opinion is wrong either.

This reminds of a YouTuber who said that Meltzer giving Richards/Elgin 5 stars would harm the future of wrestling. His theory would be that aspiring wrestlers would try to emulate that match. For every one person may of thought that match wasn't that great, there are 10 others that loved the match.


----------



## rizzotherat

Caponex75 said:


> Just to clear things up, Finlay is good but I thought the match was incredibly meh.


+1


----------



## EmbassyForever

Kurt Angle - Jeff Hardy - ***1/2
Bobby Roode - James Storm - **3/4 (TNA.. TNA...)


----------



## geraldinhio

Since when is **3/4 a MOTYC? Anyway , anyone have a download link for Finlay/Callihan? Hyped as hell to watch it/ I like Finlay a lot but I do think some people just like his matches and overrate them for the sake of it being Finlay. Him vs Steen at BOLA being the best example. The match was pretty poor for what it was and got rave reviews from some people. If anyone else other then Finlay had the exact same match with Steen , it probably would of been shit on for the most part.


----------



## smitlick

Usually when one person claims that a match eg Roode/Storm is a MOTY, Others post there thoughts and ratings after it. Or at least thats what I'm assuming he was doing.


----------



## EmbassyForever

smitlick said:


> Usually when one person claims that a match eg Roode/Storm is a MOTY, Others post there thoughts and ratings after it. Or at least thats what I'm assuming he was doing.


Yes... He said it was a MOTYC, and didn't rated it. So i did it (my opinion, maybe it was better for other guys). Didn't know it's wrong, next time i wouldn't do it..


----------



## Chismo

Cactus said:


> I'm a huge Finlay mark but that's coming off as extremely elitist. I would majorly facepalm if someone said that Davey Richards was better than Finlay but at the end of the day it's all subjective. I can totally see how people may find Finlay boring due to the spot-heavy nature of the indies today, but even if I don't agree with that statement, I don't think their opinion is wrong either.
> 
> This reminds of a YouTuber who said that Meltzer giving Richards/Elgin 5 stars would harm the future of wrestling. His theory would be that aspiring wrestlers would try to emulate that match. For every one person may of thought that match wasn't that great, there are 10 others that loved the match.


Nah, Finlay is only one example. The other one is Eddie Kingston. You will actually find some people from this section telling you he's not even a wrestler(!). There is more and more people who don't understand the art that is storytelling, and different forms of it. 

Btw, the everyday talk about "opinions and subjectivity" is overrated anyway.


----------



## Bubz

Finlay owns, but I didn;t like the first Finaly/Callihan match really, thought it was just ok. I thought the Steen match was a ton better than it tbh. Looking forward to seeing if their rematch in EVOLVE is more to my liking.


----------



## Rickey

EmbassyForever said:


> Yes... He said it was a MOTYC, and didn't rated it. So i did it (my opinion, maybe it was better for other guys). Didn't know it's wrong, next time i wouldn't do it..


Your opinion isn't wrong man, it's one of the best matches I've seen this year along with Finlay/Tajiri, Bryan/Punk, Punk/Henry, Aries/Shelley, etc. At least to me it is, to you it isn't and that's okay.


----------



## Cactus

JoeRulz said:


> Nah, Finlay is only one example. The other one is Eddie Kingston. You will actually find some people from this section telling you he's not even a wrestler(!). There is more and more people who don't understand the art that is storytelling, and different forms of it.
> 
> Btw, the everyday talk about "opinions and subjectivity" is overrated anyway.


You are coming off as a major elitist, bro. Pro-wrestling is an art, and people interpret it in different ways.


----------



## Chismo

Cactus said:


> You are coming off as a major elitist, bro. Pro-wrestling is an art, and people interpret it in different ways.


How? By saying that Finlay is more than a fat and slow brawler? You're witch-huntin', bro.


----------



## flag sabbath

I can understand Finlay's style not being to everyone's tastes & people being underwhelmed by Finlay vs Callihan III. I thought it was a very good match (maybe ***1/2), but not MOTY calibre.

I enjoyed that it felt like a real fight, but Finlay could have given Sami more by selling for longer with less cut-offs. In the end it was a little too one-sided. Also Lenny Leonard's commentary was really half-hearted & he was slow to pick up on several subtleties - like Finlay's increasingly desperate tactics as he struggled to put Callihan away.


----------



## Cactus

JoeRulz said:


> How? By saying that Finlay is more than a fat and slow brawler? You're witch-huntin', bro.


It's not about the point at hand, because Finlay is one of the best in the world at the moment in my opinion. It's just what it sounds like you are saying is that if you don't like Kingston or Finlay, you are wrong.


----------



## geraldinhio

EmbassyForever said:


> Yes... He said it was a MOTYC, and didn't rated it. So i did it (my opinion, maybe it was better for other guys). Didn't know it's wrong, next time i wouldn't do it..


I didn't see anything wrong with what you were doing , just saying it's weird to see **2/3 stars mentioned as a MOTYC. Nothing wrong though I suppose.

*Harashima & El Generico vs Kenny Omega & KUDO -DDT- Into The Fight 2012*

I'm loving Generico in DDT so far , it's a matter of time before him and Omega wrestle a singles match.:mark: Omega is so great , impressive as always. Harashima impressed me too , could be a junior to look out for. Any match with Generico and Omega in it is always going to be fun and this is exactly what this match just , just pure and simple fun . Some great back and fourth action and made both teams looks good and the crowd ate it up. Just a very good junior tag match.

****

Anyone else watching much DDT? Generico's title run has been pure gold. :lmao


----------



## Chismo

Cactus said:


> It's not about the point at hand, because Finlay is one of the best in the world at the moment in my opinion. It's just what it sounds like you are saying is that if you don't like Kingston or Finlay, you are wrong.


Well, it's not about liking or disliking. It never really was. Hell, even I don't like Kingston (not too much, at least), but I admit he's one helluva wrestler. The man. But people way too often say for someone "I don't like him, therefore he's not good". I don't care if someone likes or hates a wrestler. I'm not really arguing that. I'm arguing abilities. Wrestling workrate and abilities. And call me crazy, but I don't think there's too much room for subjectivity there. It's not like when we argue about a wrestling match, because there's sooo much details and ways of doing job to argue about. The room for subjectivity is extremely big for that department.

Btw: The Undertaker, Steve Austin, Bret Hart, Terry Funk, Jerry Lawler. I don't like them. Not really. But I'd be crazy to call them bad. They are the best/greatest wrestlers of all time. I hate Lionel Messi with passion, lol, but I admit he's probably the best ever.


----------



## antoniomare007

JoeRulz said:


> Btw: The Undertaker, Steve Austin, Bret Hart, Terry Funk, Jerry Lawler. I don't like them. Not really. But I'd be crazy to call them bad. They are the best/greatest wrestlers of all time. I hate Lionel Messi with passion, lol, but I admit he's probably the best *ever.*


off topic, but you should get the Pete Campbell treatment for statements like that







.


----------



## Chismo

antoniomare007 said:


> off topic, but you should get the Pete Campbell treatment for statements like that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


----------



## antoniomare007

JoeRulz said:


>





Spoiler: you asked for it


----------



## dukenukem3do

Lockdown 2012-Roode vs Storm ***3/4 if it wasn't for the suck ass crowd it would get 4 stars


----------



## Bubz

LOL @ Pete. KTFO!

I just watched Finlay/Callihan from Evolve 11, and I liked it so much more than their match last year. Everything just seemed better to me, the pacing, the story and both guys performances. Great match imo and a definite MOTYC. I'm too tired to write a proper review right now, but I'm going to re-watch it tomorrow and see if I still liked it as much. I think a part of it might be that I went in with really low expectations.


----------



## Zatiel

geraldinhio said:


> *Harashima & El Generico vs Kenny Omega & KUDO -DDT- Into The Fight 2012*
> 
> I'm loving Generico in DDT so far , it's a matter of time before him and Omega wrestle a singles match.:mark: Omega is so great , impressive as always. Harashima impressed me too , could be a junior to look out for. Any match with Generico and Omega in it is always going to be fun and this is exactly what this match just , just pure and simple fun . Some great back and fourth action and made both teams looks good and the crowd ate it up. Just a very good junior tag match.
> 
> ****
> 
> Anyone else watching much DDT? Generico's title run has been pure gold. :lmao


Some of the most fun I've had watching any match all year, especially of matches from this year. Omega and Generico were godly, and KUDO really picked up everything he had to do.


----------



## antoniomare007

*CM Punk vs Mark Henry - RAW 16/04/12
*
Now THIS is the TV match of the year. Better than their encounter 2 weeks ago that Segunda (and Dylan Waco ) loved so much, imo. David vs Goliath is my favorite style of wrestling match and this 2 pulled it off greatly once again, and this time it had a better finish.

If I was giving snowflakes I guess I would give it 4...or 78, not sure.



damn, gotta watch that DDT tag match soon.


----------



## Rickey

CM Punk vs. Mark Henry(No Disqualification)-April 16, 2012 RAW.


----------



## MF83

Initial reaction to Punk/Henry III is "Five Star Match of the Year". It will need a rewatch, but holy shit was it perfect.


----------



## Bubz

Aw fuck nuts I missed Henry/Punk III.


----------



## antoniomare007

BUBZ said:


> Aw fuck nuts I missed Henry/Punk III.











they'll probably get deleted soon so enjoy it while you can


----------



## ViolenceIsGolden

fpalm at people giving a Mark Henry match 5 stars. I know these have been the best matches of his career and he's reaching his full potential as a strong man working with the much smaller but great story teller in Punk but come on. It's Mark Henry Sexual Chocolate.


----------



## antoniomare007

who gives a flying fuck about a 5 starzs~! match though?


----------



## ViolenceIsGolden

I liked the first match better but I see how the first and this one go together.


----------



## seancarleton77

I love how WWE has become the best WRESTLING promotion in the world again for the first time since 2002.


----------



## antoniomare007

seancarleton77 said:


> I love how WWE has become the best WRESTLING promotion in the world again for the first time since 2008.


fixed


----------



## Caponex75

Triple H was pretty fucking rad in 2008. His match against Cena and Hardy that year were classics.


----------



## EffectRaven

Alot of guys were on a tear in 2008. MVP, Orton, Jericho and I remember Batista being really awesome that year as well


----------



## Goku

JoeRulz said:


> I hate Lionel Messi with passion, lol, but I admit he's probably the best ever.


This is probably not the point, but why do you hate Lionel Messi?


----------



## Saint Dick

Hohenheim of Light said:


> This is probably not the point, but why do you hate Lionel Messi?


I was thinking the same thing.


----------



## antoniomare007

wait, people actually like that little fucker?


----------



## Goku

BEST IN THE WORLD.


----------



## Clique

EffectRaven said:


> Alot of guys were on a tear in 2008. MVP, Orton, Jericho and I remember Batista being really awesome that year as well


Not to leave out Shawn Michaels, Undertaker and Edge.


----------



## Chismo

Hohenheim of Light said:


> This is probably not the point, but why do you hate Lionel Messi?


He plays for Uefalona. And he annoys me. And yeah, he plays for Uefalona. I know it's irrational, but fuck it, I'm Madridista and I hate that little turd.

But he's the best ever, I admit it.


----------



## EmbassyForever

JoeRulz said:


> He plays for Uefalona. And he annoys me. And yeah, he plays for Uefalona. I know it's irrational, but fuck it, I'm Madridista and I hate that little turd.
> 
> But he's the best ever, I admit it.


Uefalona? Lol.
But he isn't the best ever. Yes, he's amazing, but he isn't a leader like Maradona and yes.. Ronaldo.


----------



## Bubz

Messi fucking owns!

*Punk/Henry - RAW 16/4* was amazing. From Punks entrance with that HUGE pop and those HUGE chants, right to the fucking awesome finish. Similar to their first match, but with Punk pulling out more in order to beat the big man. That bulldog Punk hit off the barricade was so great, and Punk maybe getting to over abitious and trying too much high risk stuff and getting thrown into the barricade like he was nothing was sweet. Looked brutal. I don't really care what anyone says about Punks 'sloppiness', but imo he's the best in ring story teller and seller in the world, and I'm not just talking about his Henry matches either, his matches with Bryan also proved that to me. He just 100% 'gets' it. This played off the first match so well, with Punk going for the stuff that worked in that one, only to get cut off this time, so he had to go for something new. The chair added another dimension to the match, as it gave a couple nearfalls and was the difference maker for Punk. That chair shot to Henry's chest looked nasty! The finish was amazing, and absolutely perfect for the match and the side feud these guys have been having. It looked really brutal too. Awesome tv match, and yeah, better than the first one they had and easily the tv MOTY, no question. I've decided Punk is my WOTY so far. *****1/4*


----------



## TelkEvolon

seancarleton77 said:


> I love how WWE has become the best WRESTLING promotion in the world again for the first time since 2002.


I wouldn't say so. I think you're just high on it at the moment and really into that style of "wrestling".

Also, this isn't a SOCCER thread.


----------



## Saint Dick

Thought Punk/Henry was good but not as good as their first match (which despite being great wasn't a MOTYC to begin with).


----------



## EmbassyForever

Ownage™ said:


> Thought Punk/Henry was good but not as good as their first match (which despite being great wasn't a MOTYC to begin with).


(Y)


----------



## Goku

Uh, yeah. I like wrestling. Triple H/Taker my MOTY. K.



JoeRulz said:


> He plays for Uefalona. And he annoys me. And yeah, he plays for Uefalona. I know it's irrational, but fuck it, I'm Madridista and I hate that little turd.
> 
> But he's the best ever, I admit it.


I can relate. I dislike Barcelona as well.

-=UEFALONA TO GET CRUSHED BY THE CLEAN AND HONEST CHELSEA=-



EmbassyForever said:


> Uefalona? Lol.
> But he isn't the best ever. Yes, he's amazing, but he isn't a leader like Maradona and yes.. Ronaldo.


Are you saying Ronaldo is better than Messi? (I'm assuming you mean the Brazilian Ronaldo).

And yeah, it's debateable for now, but Messi will far surpass Maradona by the time he's done.


----------



## Emperor DC

One note on the Messi thing, then I'll leave it. The only thing Messi has not done is win a WC, if he won that, it'd be a no contest, but you could argue the Champions League is now the true test of a world class player and you only have to look at what he's done in that.

I'm done. Let's get back to rating Khali/Show vs. Primo/Epico.


----------



## Chismo

seancarleton77 said:


> I love how WWE has become the best WRESTLING promotion in the world again for the first time since 2002.


Next to Big Japan, New Japan, All Japan, Dragon Gate and ROH? Nah.


----------



## KingKicks

Haven't rated it but Punk/Henry from last night is up there as one of the better TV matches this year. Not as good as their match from 2 weeks ago but still pretty damn good. ***1/4+ from me.


----------



## TelkEvolon

JoeRulz said:


> Next to Big Japan, New Japan, All Japan, Dragon Gate and ROH? Nah.


Yeah, I don't think anything is really standing next to BJW in terms of consistency, maybe Dragon Gate from what I have been hearing, but I don't watch it. All Japan & New Japan have been very solid, maybe AJPW has been a tiny bit ahead of NJPW, but it would be pretty hard to tell I feel the big matches for each company have been delivering, but AJPW might have a better whole event/card with more must-see matches and eh, ROH has been fine.

I think WWE is good here and there, but that's about it. VERY hit and miss currently.


----------



## antoniomare007

From what I've seen, All Japan is the only promotion that I can honestly say is more interesting to watch than WWE right now. We are still in April though so A LOT of shit can happen till the end of the year. Specially in WWE were they can drop the ball and go back to mediocre status in a blink of an eye.


And I know this is off topic but I just can't help it 



EmbassyForever said:


> But he isn't the best ever. Yes, he's amazing, but he isn't a leader like Maradona and yes.. Ronaldo.


Pretty much this. He is the best of his generation and is a big difference maker in a well oiled machine (were Xavi and Iniesta are more important pieces than Messi) but he continues to struggle every time he comes to play here in South America and he just isn't the same outside of the Barca sistem. Which is understandable as most barca players suffer from the same shit.

He still has ways to go before being up there with Cruyff, Pele, Diego and Zidane imo.


ps: Hala Madrid coño!


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Gonna watch Henry/Punk asap, just touching on the best promotion to watch debate, atm WWE and its style are largely the best sort of matches for me to sit through. I think their TV formula for the most part is really nailed down as evidenced by Smackdown and Superstars in particular since 2009 and the likes of Punk, Bryan, Henry, Mysterio, Christian, Drew, Cena, Masters, Bourne, Usos, Barreta etc really have a nice settled formula which has resulted in a variety of junior sprints, good heavyweight matches and some really great matches built around limb selling and building to the babyface comeback. I really dig the STF approach in WWE tags, though time constraints usually means we don't get many great tags this more unless they're on house shows or dark matches but Epico/Primo have still had some fun matches in their largely irrelevant reign.

Its not by any means a perfect style and is incredibly easy in dividing opinion when it comes to the pinnacle of WWE Main Event wrestling, i.e Punk/Cena, Taker/HHH, Flair/HBK, HHH/Taker etc. The choreographed babyface comeback spell where the heel has to bump repeatedly and barely sell the babyface's offence can be really annoying when some of the offence is terrible or looks too choreographed and formulaic, but for the large part there's very little WWE matches where I can be annoyed by aimless strike exchanges, poor character work, overkill territory in regards to multiple finishers with little creativity in set up (I acknowledge HHH/Taker was an exception here before anyone points it out) which is something that infuriates me in quite a few Puro and Indy matches and is why I'm really only a fan of a few workers who break that norm in those styles of wrestling such as a Yuki Ishikawa or Finlay.


----------



## Bubz

WWE has been really entertaining this year imo. I would say AJPW has been the best company so far though in terms of great cards and matches etc. NJPW has been very entertaining as usual, but without the great matches that AJP/BJW has been putting on. ROH's tv show is very good too, but their ppv's and house shows are genrally poor. TNA has improved a ton from the last 4-5 years but it's still sometimes very hard to sit through.


----------



## Cactus

Raw was really good last night.

Henry vs Punk - ***1/2 - ***3/4
Bryan vs Kofi - ***1/2


----------



## geraldinhio

I feel almost ashamed to say I havn't seen any of Punks/Henrys matches yet this year. Except for the Smackdown one where Henry won by DQ. If I've free time later I'll watch them both. There only was two raved about matches , ya?


On the topic of Messi , I hate him but he's easily the best footballer of this generation. The only reason I hate him is being a Madrid fan ( Nice too see a few here, massive thumbs up.) El Classico Saturday. :mark: This is slowly turning into a football discussion , guess I'll stop.


----------



## jawbreaker

I'm actually watching WWE regularly for the first time since 2009. Partly because one of my friends is starting to get into it (dude LOVES Lord Tensai), but also partly because it's actually a really enjoyable product. I don't have the time or dedication to watch every show, but I'm watching PPVs, the occasional Raw, and various matches that get pimped hard. Which is more than I do for just about any other company (except PWG).

Also, Punk/Henry was awesome. ***3/4, bordering on ****.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Cena/Tensai was actually getting talked about as a good match and definitely evidence that they have a very good/great match in them. Tensai is a difficult character really, on the one hand its a very over the top and traditional wrestling character and Bernard is great in the ring to work these squashes like a champ and could have a really great monster run (I'd love him to face Punk at the June/July PPV for example)but at the same time I worry its too much of a throwback to the gimmick era for it to get over. I mean I could see Giant Bernard from NJPW getting over fine in America as a surly asskicker, Tensai will be fun to watch in the ring and could work some great matches but I'm not sold yet on it being a long term character for him to benefit from.

As for WWE, I've always been able since 2009 to just watch the good TV matches and occasional quality PPV bout to put up with some of the booking/creative shit they force on us, but there does seem to be something really good about the product atm. Tensai, Brodus and Ryback are good potential monster characters, Henry and Bryan are the two best heels in the company, Lesnar/Cena has been wonderful and good serve for actual character development for Cena and Punk is doing great as the ace champion with Henry and Jericho being his two main adversaries so far. Undercard needs developing and expanding but Santino/Brodus v Ziggler/Swagger could be ridiculously fun. And screw it, Otunga may not amount to anything in ring wise but he's a great character to play off of Big Johnny.


----------



## jawbreaker

Cena/Tensai wasn't all that great because Cena looked to me like he was off his game a bit. Tensai was great though.

Yeah, it's a bit of a throwback to the gimmick era for sure, but so long as they make it about "here's a big huge dude who beats the shit out of people, also he looks scary and foreign" and not about "he's totally all about Japan and stuff!!!!" he should have no problem getting over. It's also not a cookie cutter gimmick, there's something distinctive about it that people will remember without it being too over the top gimmicky.

Also, Santino is a gimmick guy, but he's gotten over huge, and didn't Brodus get a huge pop last night too? I think Tensai should have no trouble getting over.


----------



## Goku

All I've heard about Cena/Tensai is how one is worse than the other in terms of performance.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

jawbreaker said:


> Cena/Tensai wasn't all that great because Cena looked to me like he was off his game a bit. Tensai was great though.
> 
> Yeah, it's a bit of a throwback to the gimmick era for sure, but so long as they make it about "here's a big huge dude who beats the shit out of people, also he looks scary and foreign" and not about "he's totally all about Japan and stuff!!!!" he should have no problem getting over. It's also not a cookie cutter gimmick, there's something distinctive about it that people will remember without it being too over the top gimmicky.
> 
> Also, Santino is a gimmick guy, but he's gotten over huge, and didn't Brodus get a huge pop last night too? I think Tensai should have no trouble getting over.


Maybe you're right, though I think they need to replace some of his nerve holds and fondness for the claw with more elbows and stiff looking offence. He'll be a great heavyweight worker and if they can keep a fine line between brutal offence with some of the more quirky aspects of the character then it good turn out well, just depends how they book him really.

Haven't seen Cena/Tensai yet, but I'm hoping once they get a proper program we'll get some very good matches out of it.


----------



## EmbassyForever

I Hope Tenshi will start use some moves from Japan legends. Chop to the head (Kobashi) and something like that.. This is would be cool


----------



## Certified G

The Cena/Tensai match was completely shit on in the Raw section. Apparently the crowd was pretty dead, and alot of people said Tensai looked awkward in the ring. Personally I thought it was an enjoyable match and I'm really digging Lord Tensai. I hope he gets a monster push like Umaga got in 2006.


----------



## Bubz

It wasn't great, but it wasn't bad either. Tensai is looking good so far, the crowd doesn't seem to care about him at all yet. I kind of wish they had just debuted him as Giant Bernard, but the japanese gimmick is something fresh in terms of recent years. I like that he uses the green mist, gives him that real foreign/heel wrestler feel. I'm not a fan of the claw thing he does though, seems too similar to that silly choke Kane was using recently.


----------



## peachchaos

RAW Supershow 4/16:
Punk vs. Henry ***1/2 
Bryan vs. Kingston ***
Tensai vs. Cena **

Punk and Henry continue to entertain with their ongoing mini-feud. This is a great place for Henry to be, as they can just keep plugging him into big title matches week after week and have him look dominant without ever winning the strap. This feud is very reminiscent of something from the Attitude Era when guys would fight every week but in the background is a bigger angle lingering. Makes for good television. 

Bryan and Kofi both do decent work, even if I never really *believe* Kingston.

Absolutely love the Lord Tensai gimmick, in-ring work and all. Great to see him go over Cena and have it treated as a big deal. His slow and methodical pacing is fresh since he isn't Big Show or Kane. Anytime there is green mist in my wrestling I'm a f'n mark again.


----------



## Bubz

Maybe I slightly overrated Punk/Henry on first watch, but it's still my tv MOTY and still an easy **** for me. Just great fun stuff.


----------



## milkman7

On the conversation of WWE presenting the best product right now, it's leading everything in Japan by far. The only promotion in Japan that would be beating it only comes out with dvds like 8 months after the show happens. 

As far as the States go, WWE beats the pants off of everybody there too.

Mexico is the only one where I disagree, I think CMLL and TXT have been consistently better this year. IWRG looked like it would be at the beginning of the year, but they haven't been that great since the end of January.


----------



## Saint Dick

What standout matches have WWE had this year apart from HHH/Taker, Punk/Jericho, Punk/Henry and Punk/Bryan? Not disputing that it's the best product right now, just wondering if there's anything I've missed. I've seen all the PPVs but I rarely watch TV matches unless they're highly pimped on here.


----------



## milkman7

I wouldn't include either Taker/HHH or Punk/Jericho. But both of the Punk/Henry matches, Daniel Bryan vs The Big Show/Mark Henry series up to the Royal Rumble cage match (which I liked more than most.) The Smackdown Elimination Chamber match, John Cena carrying The Rock to a decent match. Plus all the non-wrestling stuff with Brock has been fantastic, the same can be said with all the Daniel Bryan angles. Overall WWE has been really consistent this year, but for me they are still in need of a big time great match.


----------



## Bubz

milkman7 said:


> I wouldn't include either Taker/HHH or Punk/Jericho. But both of the Punk/Henry matches, Daniel Bryan vs The Big Show/Mark Henry series up to the Royal Rumble cage match (which I liked more than most.) The Smackdown Elimination Chamber match, John Cena carrying The Rock to a decent match. Plus all the non-wrestling stuff with Brock has been fantastic, the same can be said with all the Daniel Bryan angles. Overall WWE has been really consistent this year, but for me *they are still in need of a big time great match.*


I'm hoping Extreme Rules can deliver that. Punk/Jericho in a Chicago street fight and Bryan/Shaemus in 2/3 falls have massive potential to be awesome, and Cena/Brock just has that HUGE match feel to it already. It feels like they should be doing that match at a bigger PPV like Summerslam. Still, I'm not going to complain, theres loads of people I would like to see Brock feud with until Mania next year.


----------



## seancarleton77

Punk vs. Henry III = ****

Comparing ROH or Dragon Gate to an actual WRESTLING promotion? Big Japan maybe, but no those two.


----------



## EmbassyForever

seancarleton77 said:


> Punk vs. Henry III = ****
> 
> Comparing ROH or Dragon Gate to an actual WRESTLING promotion? Big Japan maybe, but no those two.


Why not?


----------



## seancarleton77

Because good wrestling matches rarely happen in Ring of Honor any more and Dragon Gate is just choreographed and synchronized car wrecks.


----------



## milkman7

seancarleton77 said:


> Because good wrestling matches rarely happen in Ring of Honor any more and Dragon Gate is just choreographed and synchronized car wrecks.


(****3/4)


----------



## Saint Dick

Re-watched Punk/Henry III. It's really good but it's not as good as their first match and definitely not a MOTYC in my books. Neither was the first one but I'd happily call that one a great match. 

Top 5 for the year:

1. The Undertaker v Triple H - Wrestlemania XXVIII (****1/4)
2. CM Punk v Chris Jericho - Wrestlemania XXVIII (****)
3. Raw Chamber - Elmination Chamber (***3/4)
4. CM Punk v Mark Henry - Raw 4/2 (***1/2)
5. CM Punk v Daniel Bryan - Raw 1/30 (***1/2)

Not sure if the chamber match will hold up another viewing but really dug it the first time with Kofi and Dolph bumping their asses off, Punk being Punk, and Jericho's heel performance.


----------



## Yeah1993

Yeah I didn't think the most recent Punk/Henry was as good as the first either. It was good, and that barricade bump was NASTY, but the first one looked like a match where all the stars were aligning for it to be match of the year-calibre before getting cut short.

I am hating Jericho/Punk. Jericho's promos really don't come off good to me and I don't like the alcohol bullshit twisted into it.

Watched pretty much the whole Raw (said "YEAH RIGHT I AIN'T FUCKING WATCHING THAT" when Marella/Otunga popped up though), and it just bugs me when they have a random Cena match as the main event while the WWE title match gets the first showing. Tensai going over was great. If Cena gets a Losing Streak storyline going he might actually get more sympathy and tolerance from those that usually wish him dead and stuff. Cena needs something different and a string of losses would work. Could build to a another Rock match where he tries to beat him to get his mojo back or something. Lesnar better win.

EDIT- Ah. Sorry. Thought this was the WWE thread b/c I had the tab open for so long. Oh well, enjoy mah thoughts.


----------



## seabs

*Yearly 16 Carat greatness*

*Zack Sabre Jr. vs Jon Ryan - Day 1*
_Thought their match at Ambition 2 last year was better but this was still really good and Zack's always able to get the type of level of match out of Ryan that nobody else in wXw seems to be able to including Finlay and Nigel. Some great teased finishes at the end and a really great finish._

****3/4*

*Daisuke Sekimoto & Freddy Stahl vs Big Van Walter & Robert Dreissker - Day 1*
_Started off slow and uneventful but got better and better throughout until it finally ended up being a great Strong BJ esque tag. Stahl's just a little young kid so naturally he takes a great beating from the 2 fatty Europeans. He plays a good babyface getting his ass kicked though and has some great hope and comeback spots too. The Sekimoto/Walter exchanges build really nicely to their title match. Dreissker looked super in this too._

******

*Ricky Marvin vs Tommy End - Day 2*
_Loads better than anyone would ever think this would be and ended up being one of the best matches of the weekend imo. Really great cruiserweight style and Tommy stepped his game up in a big way to the level of Marvin so he could really go at it with him and not look out of place. Great finish to top it off as well._

*****1/4*

*Zack Sabre Jr. vs Yoshihito Sasaki - Day 2*
_Great little sprint going around 10 minutes. Plenty of great strikes and you're know you're getting strong strikes with these 2. Finish was a bit rough but that was the only sour point on a bossy little sprint._

****3/4+*

*Big Van Walter vs Daisuke Sekimoto - Day 2*
_The best of their 3 wXW matches for me. Sekimoto's really great on the rare chance he gets to work from behind and sell and he continues that trend here. His back selling and general long term selling of a war is great. Walter's improved leaps and bounds in the last year and his strikes are really vicious since he came back from his BJW tour last year. Sekimoto hits really hard too in case you didn't realise too and they really tear into each other with their strikes. Well structured with a great finishing stretch too. Preferred Daisuke's match with Suwama but this is great in it's own right._

*****1/4*

*Finlay vs Johnny Kidd - Day 3*
_Thankfully Finlay's 16 Carat didn't end up being a total letdown thanks to this. The Callihan match on Day 1 was a let down and the Moss match on Day 2 was bad, plus they passed up the chance to put Finlay with Generico, Sabre, Sekimoto and Sasaki. Finlay and Kidd could realisticly wrestle this match anywhere so I felt a bit sour at first when I saw this was Finlay's 3rd match and he wasn't facing any of the special guests who he'd be unlikely to have the chance to work with again. Nevertheless though this ended up being for me Finlay's best match since his release along with the Steen match. World of Sport rules and these guys know how to work that british style and it's sublime. Matwork is naturally fantastic and tons of fun and they structure it really well leading to the finish. Finlay dances and sells the head shot from Day 2 by going under the ring to look for Hornswoggle. That should be enough to sell you on any match let alone the fact that Finlay and Kidd work a lengthy mat based match that was brilliant._

*****1/4*

*Big Van Walter, Daisuke Sekimoto, 2-Face & Kim Ray vs Axeman, Yoshihito Sasaki, Karsten Beck & Robert Dreissker - 8 Man Elimination Tag - Day 3*
_When I got to Day 3 and looked at the card and saw the BJW guys were in this match I was initially super pissed because it seemed like a super waste on paper but it ended up being my favourite match of the weekend. First off it's elimination rules and it gets plenty of time to tell enough stories and add plenty of layers to the match. The Walter/Sekimoto teaming together dynamic was really great from them starting off taking cheap shots at each other, to one upping each other and then eventually forming the mega powers of doom to finish off Axeman. Karsten Beck is one of the best characters on the Indies right now and someone in America needs to pick him up so we get more of him. The Walter/Beck segment rocked even if meant no macarena on Day 3 (yes Karsten Beck does the macarena when he wins a match~!). Walter making an example of his own partner and destroying Dreissker to put himself over yet again was great. Gets down to Walter and Sekimoto vs Axeman and Sasaki and then becomes a really great 2 on 2 tag match. Axeman play Shinobu for one night only which means Sasaki gets to beat him up despite being partners. Axeman takes a really great beating from the Mega Powers duo and when Sasaki gets eliminated and it becomes 2 on 1 Axeman was a great babyface hero refusing to die and even teasing pinning one of the Mega Powers. Wouldn't have looked at all out of place on a BJW card._

*****1/4+*

*LDRS Of The New School vs Ricky Marvin & Emil Sitoci - Day 3*
_You could tell they were trying to recreate the LDRS/FS match from last year and it just wasn't possible against Marvin and Sitoci. It was still a really good tag match in it's own right. Marvin decided he hated Scurll and built superbly to them two killing each other later in the match but it never really happened due to Scurll not really brining the same intensity when he was in the ring. Far less overkill of any kind at the which helped them in this scenario._

****3/4*


----------



## Zatiel

EmbassyForever said:


> Why not?


Because nobody liked Steen Vs. Generico or Elgin Vs. Richards, and obviously ROH doesn't do REAL wrestling anymore, bro. It's just, like, motivations, and openings, and middles, and rising pace, and variations, and finishes using holds and moves, which isn't, like, REAL wrestling.


----------



## seabs

*Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin - ROH World Championship - ROH Showdown In The Sun Night 2*
_As long as you can accept the ROH style for what it is these days then this was great and probably close to the best match you're possibly gonna get from that style. Beginning and Middle portions of the match are basically non existent so the body of the match is just a really long finishing stretch but at least it was a good one. Davey's initial shine period at the start sucked. Felt really flat and the crowd didn't seem to care. There never seems to be an atmosphere throughout ROH matches anymore. Yes the crowd react to the big spots and do their horrible "This is Awesome/Wrestling" chant when they like a match but when they're not doing crazy shit there's always this bored silent atmosphere which always hurts the match for me and it's because they don't make them care about the smaller things in a wrestling match. Transition into Elgin's workover in the middle really sucked and Elgin should have had longer to destroy Davey in the middle of the match before they went to trading bombs. I wouldn't say Elgin came out of it looking like a great worker but he looked incredible on offence and that was what made the match for me. All his moves looked destructful and on the money. Like I said the match was basically a really long finishing stretch but it was an entertaining one and when I was able to accept that's all it would be it was enjoyable because the work and the moves were great and everyone seemed excited about it which made me excited about it. Nigel's not a brilliant commentator but he doesn't need to be in his role. All he needs to get excited and get me excited and HE GOT EXCITED. Kelly sucks though and seemed bored/generic calling it. I don't think Davey was great or even good in this but he wasn't bad and didn't put me off the match which I guess counts as good for a Davey match in ROH right now. Dragon suplex off the top was nuts and looked awesome but if it's not going to be the finish then it should at least be to set up the finish. The scale of the spots should build to the biggest of the lot to finish the match but nothing after it came close to topping it. The suplex/powerbomb combo on the floor looked nuts too and should have been a big turning point into Elgin's control of the match but instead it was kinda just another spot that lead to just another near fall. It was a terrific spot though so I wasn't annoyed. Davey's lack of a credible finish or move really hurts him. I guess his finish is a kick to the head but he does so many of them it's not really a finish. If he'd got the ankle lock over as his finish then the ankle lock spots would have been great (see Angle in WWE) but instead it felt like just another move he pulled out. Loved Elgin selling it by trying to charge at Davey but his ankle giving way and that eventually leaving Elgin open for Davey to finish him off. Davey took a lot of punishment in this and I knew he was winning so I was really worried he'd just hit a few moves and Elgin would look weak because he Davey took way more in comparison but the finish worked really well to make Elgin look a strong loser as well as making Davey look like a strong champ. Glad it didn't go too long and Truth didn't get involved. Didn't think there were any long portions which dragged either and that's maybe where the match being a long finishing stretch actually helped them. Liked this a lot but I didn't think it was a legit MOTYC. Still probably be the best ROH match this year though using their style._

*****1/4*

*CM Punk vs Chris Jericho - WWE Championship - WrestleMania 28*
_This was really good and by far MOTN. I accidentally caught the start of Raw whilst I was channel hopping and saw Punk holding the belt so I knew the result but I was still able to really enjoy it so that says a lot for the match. Loved the start with them playing to the DQ stip and Jericho antagonising Punk into his trap. Shame that stip seemed like a last minute decision because they never played off it again but I really enjoyed the start because of it. Transitioned nicely into Jericho having control of the match too. That suplex spot looked great. I love that spot even more because the guy doing it doesn't take the fall too like stupid Indy guys do. Bump looked brutal but in a safe way. Finishing stretch with the counters was super and they worked that type of finish really well, plus it meant they could create tons of drama at the finish without kicking out of each others finishers and killing them. Loved the finish with Punk moving away so Jericho couldn't get out of the vice in the same way again._

******

*Some NO's to stuff I watched that got brought up. Ki/Generico really let down, i.e every Ki match since he left WWE. Started off like a great match until it hit the floor and then it was every other match you've ever seen with Ki not giving Generico enough. Finlay/Callihan II and III both were decent but not great. Callihan's not very good at all in control of a match and he didn't get his face punched anywhere near enough in either match. That's what made their first match great and they lost it. Plus the finish to III really sucked. Big NO to Taker/HHH as well. Wrote this elsewhere.*


> I really didn't like Taker/HHH and there were parts that I really hated. I wasn't crazy about last years match but I thought the story was good even if the match as a whole wasn't super. This one felt like they were trying waaaaay too hard to have an epic classic. Thought Taker looked really bossy with the shaved head when he had that coat on. Then he looked more old than badass when he took the coat off. Can't remember anyone else saying this in here (I've only read this site's thoughts on the show btw) but I thought Taker looked really bad in this match. Really sluggish and old and I never thought I'd say that Taker's punches looked bad but they did. First 10 minutes were a killer. I'd gone about 40 hours with no sleep by the time I was watching this and I was constantly nodding off during the opening parts. Both men looked really old and like they shouldn't be working a long match with anyone, let alone each other. Spinebuster on the steps looked like a bitch to take. That and the SCM/Pedigree spots were the only moments of the match that made me take notice. Felt like they just went for so long and then at a random point they said let's do our epic finish. Felt really forced and way less natural than last year. I thought the execution of the story was poor too. Michaels as ref seemed all over the place. Could have done without him being all jolly during his entrance too. Killed some of the drama I thought. He was OTT but he was good in parts selling the match. I liked him curled up in the corner. I just had no idea what was going on with him though. First he was taking pitty on Taker, then he was angry with Hunter, then he tried to screw Taker and at the end they were all buddies and they hugged. THEY ALL HUGGED AT THE END. God I hated that so much. Came across as the biggest ego trip ever with the whole end of an era tagline. "We're better than all the current guys and we're going out by having the greatest match ever and putting each other ever because we rock". Cell was a useless stip and just felt more like they were trying too hard to have the greatest match ever with that and HBK as ref. They could have built the drama up around HBK being the ref way longer than they did but in the end he went off in every direction possible and none of them mattered. No idea why Charles Robinson had to come down and take a chokeslam from Taker. They did the angle on SD with Sheamus getting some stupid fine for kicking a ref but why didn't they care that Taker killed Robinson here? Did. Not. Like.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Zatiel said:


> Because nobody liked Steen Vs. Generico or Elgin Vs. Richards, and obviously ROH doesn't do REAL wrestling anymore, bro. It's just, like, motivations, and openings, and middles, and rising pace, and variations, and finishes using holds and moves, which isn't, like, REAL wrestling.


Nobody liked Elgin - Richards?.....


----------



## Concrete

Pretty sure he was referencing sean carlton for saying that ROH wasn't a real wrestling company. People did enjoy Elgin-Richards obviously.


----------



## antoniomare007

Seabs, have you watched the final day of the Strong Climb tournament??


----------



## seabs

antoniomare007 said:


> Seabs, have you watched the final day of the Strong Climb tournament??


*hehe I knew you were gonna ask that as soon as I saw you were the last post in this thread. Haven't had time yet but I'm really excited to watch the semis and the final.*


----------



## EmbassyForever

Oh yeah sorry my bad, i thought it's the same guy..


----------



## SuperDuperDragon

Maybe this is a bit random, but Mark Henry is one of my favorite sellers lately.


----------



## Bubz

Seabs I think you're the only other person I've seen say they didn't know what HBK's role was in Taker/HHH. I did enjoy the match, but I had no idea what Shawn was supposed to be doing for the majority of it.


----------



## antoniomare007

I understood his role in the match, I didn't like it one bit though. His overselling was too much for me.


----------



## Bubz

It was just the way he was taking one side, then the other, then screwing the first guy (no ****). It all got a tad too confusing for my liking. I can't really remember much about the match though apart from Shawn, the superkick/pedigree combo and the chair shots, which isn't really a good thing.


----------



## MF83

I really, really liked Sekimoto/Hama.


----------



## rafz

AJPW 03/01
_Kenny Omega vs. Hiroshi Yamato_
******

CMLL 30/03
_Volador Jr. vs. Prince Devitt_
*****1/*4

ROH Showdown In The Sun Night 2
_Davey Richards vs. Michael Elgin_
*****1/2*


----------



## jawbreaker

BUBZ said:


> It was just the way he was taking one side, then the other, then screwing the first guy (no ****). It all got a tad too confusing for my liking. I can't really remember much about the match though apart from Shawn, the superkick/pedigree combo and the chair shots, which isn't really a good thing.


I got what Shawn was there for, the problem for me was that I didn't understand his motivation, which made it really hard to tell what he was thinking, which made everything he did seem really overacted and silly.

Also I just really didn't like the match that much.


----------



## Rickey

Chris Jericho vs. Kofi Kingston from the 4/23/2012 Raw was pretty good.


----------



## seabs

*Kevin Steen vs El Generico - Last Man Standing - ROH Showdown In The Sun Night 1*
_Liked this but I didn't love it. They didn't go too crazy with the spots which I liked but it still never reached the heights of their 2 PWG matches last year. There was hate in it and it wasn't just hardcore spots but with ROH production it's much harder to really get into the match and pick up on smaller mannerisms which make the match more than just wrestling and spots. As soon as I saw that stage I was praying Generico would do a crazy running dive off it and that spot ruled. All the spots were good actually but none of them really stood out like they did in their Ladder match. Finish felt a bit flat but it was good. Would have been much better if their was more of a relationship between Jacobs/Generico and if Jacobs had a proper run as a babyface rather than doing nothing. Plus the turn should have happened at Final Battle to screw ROH over and get Steen rehired. Instead Steen just deserved to be rehired which was lame. Steen falling completely in sync with Generico at the end ruled._

****3/4*


----------



## EmbassyForever

*CZW Aerial Assault 2012:*

TLC Match
Mia Yim vs. Greg Excellent ****1/2

WOW. Just WOW. Watch it, belive me, it was a MOTYC for me. Amazing match. Just watch it


----------



## Certified G

A 4+ star Greg Excellent match? Lol, never thought I'd see that, though I am enjoying his fued with Mia Yim/DJ Hyde. I'll probably order the dvd sometime next week if it's already up for sale.


----------



## smitlick

Its definitely up at Smart Mark Video


----------



## EmbassyForever

The Corre said:


> A 4+ star Greg Excellent match? Lol, never thought I'd see that, though I am enjoying his fued with Mia Yim/DJ Hyde. I'll probably order the dvd sometime next week if it's already up for sale.


Yep, Excellent took some nasty spots. But the star in this match was Mia, amazing performance.


----------



## dk4life

EmbassyForever said:


> Yep, Excellent took some nasty spots. But the star in this match was Mia, amazing performance.


I had this on in the background and my jaw got closer and closer to the floor, was expecting a dud match, very good match, and Mia, was just crazy


----------



## Certified G

I watched a 4 minute video on YouTube of that match filmed by some kid in the crowd, and shit that last spot was pretty badass, looking forward to watching the whole thing.


----------



## Kid Kablam

The Corre said:


> The Cena/Tensai match was completely shit on in the Raw section. Apparently the crowd was pretty dead, and alot of people said Tensai looked awkward in the ring. Personally I thought it was an enjoyable match and I'm really digging Lord Tensai. I hope he gets a monster push like Umaga got in 2006.


It reminded me of Benoit vs Rhyno which was another terrible match that had no business being so bad.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Ring Ka King Episode 25:

- Match 1: High Flyer Ladder Match
Zema Ion vs Pagal Parinda vs Jimmy Rave vs Sonjay Dutt - ***1/4
Really good TV match right here, the crowd was weak but yeah good match.


----------



## topper1

EmbassyForever said:


> Ring Ka King Episode 25:
> 
> - Match 1: High Flyer Ladder Match
> Zema Ion vs Pagal Parinda vs Jimmy Rave vs Sonjay Dutt - ***1/4
> Really good TV match right here, the crowd was weak but yeah good match.


MOTYC THREAD.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

*Shingo Takagi vs. Katsushiko Nakajima
"DIAMOND Ring" - 02/2012*

This was a damn fine match! Start with both guys feeling each other out; Nakajima working over Shingo with those kicks like nobody's business but Shingo would come back slowly starting to attack the legs. Shingo hit an absolutely gorgeous summersault plancha. Both guys continue working each other over with Shingo continiously going for the legs and Nakajima attacking the right arm with some crowd pandering sprinkled in different parts of the match. In the second half, they kick into overdrive mode with some amazing back and forth sequences capped off by an almost DragonGate style finish and the crowd was super amped for this match. I just want to say that Shingo is a very, very underrated seller he doesn't get enough credit in that area. Again fantastic stuff here. I'm" trying to stay away from star ratings but if I had to give it a rating: ****1/4


----------



## Bubz

Loved that match. Shingo's selling was indeed great. I loved the spot when he kept going for a lariat with the right arm but Nakajima kept swatting it away with those sick kicks like 3 times, only for Shingo to hit a lariat with the left arm. Great stuff. Definitely in my top 5 of the year so far I think.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

BUBZ said:


> Loved that match. Shingo's selling was indeed great. I loved the spot when he kept going for a lariat with the right arm but Nakajima kept swatting it away with those sick kicks like 3 times, only for Shingo to hit a lariat with the left arm. Great stuff. Definitely in my top 5 of the year so far I think.


Yeah that was one of my favorite spots as well, I can't say enough good things about this match and both guys hauled ass to put on a fantastic performance.


----------



## Rickey

Daniel Bryan vs. Shaemus, WWE Extreme Rules 2012(April 29, 2012)


----------



## dukenukem3do

Daniel Bryan vs. Shaemus-WWE Extreme Rules 2012 ****


----------



## Nuski

Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus ****3/4


----------



## Rickey

Jericho vs. Punk, WWE Extreme Rules 2012.

To me this was WAAAAAAAAAAAY better than their Wrestlemania match.


----------



## Bubz

*WWE Extreme Rules - Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus*
This was great stuff with a very good story told. Bryan was made to look fucking awesome here, and he delivered, imo, one of his best performances of his career. He was so good at wearing down Sheamus at first by going after anything he could including the arm and the neck to soften him up for the Yes Lock after the quick back and forth start with Bryan using his quickness and Sheamus even trying a new submission to combat Bryans. Awesome workover segment that lasted a long time but it was so entertaining because Bryan knows how to do that and keep things fresh and interesting by adding in little things like bending the fingers and the arm in brutal looking ways. I really liked the booking of the first two falls with Bryan relentlessly kicking Sheamus in the arm and not letting up even when he was in the ropes. Bryans reaction after made it even better as he knew he could win the fall back with the Yes Lock and thats exactly what he did. Sheamus was given time to recover with the rest period as he was attended to by medics and whatever else WWE likes to call them, and that allowed him to make his comeback which was really good. The only downside was the finish was slightly anti-climatic with Sheamus simply making a comeback and winning with only one real nearfall on Bryan but that didn't take away from the rest which was absolutely top notch. Bryans performance was awesome and he gave Sheamus the best match of his career to date. *****+*

I missed the last part of Punk/Jericho but I was digging it quite a bit, I'll have to rewatch it tomorrow.


----------



## antoniomare007

yeah, what bubz said.


----------



## Sephiroth

WWE Extreme Rules
*WHC Title*: Sheamus(c) vs. Daniel Bryan - ***** 1/4
WWE Titl*e: CM Punk(c) vs. Chris Jericho - ***** 1/4*
Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena - ******


----------



## Rickey

It's not even over yet but I love the sheer awesomeness of Brock vs. Cena(Extreme Rules 2012)! Brock looks like a complete monster! A straight up nightmariac BEAST!


----------



## antoniomare007

I'm still laughing at that ending, but it was a damn good match though. Great PPV.


----------



## Corey

So Extreme Rules takes that cake as the most brutal and physically grueling PPV in WWE history for sure. Pretty fuckin awesome show.

Bryan vs. Sheamus - *****1/4*
_Fuckin awesome match start to finish. Bryan ran circles around the fella but I gained a lot of respect for the sheer beating Sheamus took and how he managed to at least keep up with Bryan, plus the guy used a fucking Texas Cloverleaf. Can't hate that. From the end of the first fall all the way to the end of the match I was seriously hyped as hell. My dad was telling me to calm down. haha. Love it._

Punk vs. Jericho - ******
_Long, grueling street fight. At times thought it was a little slow but the longer it went the better it got. Amazing last few minutes with the nearfalls and submissions. I want a ladder match with these two!_

Lesnar vs. Cena - **************
_You can't rate this shit cause it was so damn real. One of the craziest things I've ever seen in wrestling. Lesnar isn't mentally stable._

Shout out to Kane & Orton too. Delivered a really good opener. PPV of the year!!!


----------



## lewieG

Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus: best match of Sheamus' career so far, really great match.

CM Punk vs Chris Jericho: was an intense brawl, and the storytelling was great. You could feel the hatred. MOTN as far as quality goes IMO.

John Cena vs Brock Lesnar: incredible. I'm still shocked by it. MOTN for drama and just generally insanity.


----------



## Bubz

Man, Cena took a legit beating at points it seemed. Poor guy. Lesnar really was made to look like a fucking insane animal though even in defeat. Really wanted Cena to win there and even though I like him, thats something I've never really felt before. Not sure on how I feel about the match, but it did it's job brilliantly. Brock losing to me made sense, especially as he completely destroyed Cena for the entire match with just fists, elbows and a few suplexes, yet Cena had to use the chain and steps to beat him. It didn't harm Brock in any way imo. The blood seriously added to it, both guys bled which was awesome to see even if Cenas was hard way which looked nasty as hell. Cenas arm also looked legit fucked at the end there, genuinely feel sorry for the bloke and after that he deserves time off lol, and we could all do without him for a while too.

Also, got to agree it was a great overall PPV. I enjoyed pretty much everything, Kane and Orton's opener was fun, Cody/Show was meh but way better than the WM match. I'm definitely going to have to rewatch Punk/Jericho and Lesnar/Cena.


----------



## antoniomare007

It made sense, but it was the wrong decision imo. Specially if Cena isn't gonna be on TV for a while. Brock looked like a damn beast, but there's no point in beating him this early. Between Cena barely getting the W and him getting beat so he can comeback stronger, I'll take the 2nd option every time.

That didn't take away my enjoyment of the match though, it was great regardless of winner.


----------



## Caponex75

Cena/Lesnar is a hardcore MOTY for me. I don't know where it stands though because the finishing stretch was interrupted by something in me real life but holy hell that was legit one of the best matches I have ever seen.


----------



## ViolenceIsGolden

Lenar vs. Cena defines what a 5 star match is all about. It had the cinematic, big time feel going for it. Cena was put in a situation he's never been put in so far since he's became Super Cena. Only thing that sucked was Lesnar losing but to me that didn't take away from how the match went. It just felt so real. Stuff like that should be book marked in wrestling history and best way to book mark a match is by giving it 5 stars. If you don't agree with me I don't care as your a elitist and probably too into the indy moves which is not what this game is all about. You have to be able to make it look real and look like a movie is taking place in the ring.

Jericho/Punk was intense but lacked the magic of Lesnar/Cena and Sheamus/Bryan was a amazing technical battle but also lacked the magic that Lesnar/Cena had. So overall all three matches made this ppv better than Wrestlemania and those shitty ROH ippv's.


----------



## Corey

Eh, I honestly felt more magic for Punk/Jericho or Sheamus/Bryan personally. Mainly because the crowd was dead silent during Brock's entrance, which was really weird. Plus they were just in awe of Cena getting dismantled. Now those dueling chants of YES! NO!... that was good shit. haha


----------



## ViolenceIsGolden

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Eh, I honestly felt more magic for Punk/Jericho or Sheamus/Bryan personally. Mainly because the crowd was dead silent during Brock's entrance, which was really weird. Plus they were just in awe of Cena getting dismantled. Now those dueling chants of YES! NO!... that was good shit. haha


Well you have no idea how I felt for Lesnar/Cena. See you have to have those stars and that anticipation to see the match happen. I haven't felt like that for a match in a really long time. Not even Rock/Cena (due to piss poor booking) made me that hyped. On top of that it felt real. You had Lesnar really taking him down and really hurting him until he got a little tired and it turned more into a WWE pro wrestling style hardcore match in the second half.

Punk/Jericho felt too manufactured compared to Lesnar/Cena. Not into the crowd being loud cheer leaders even if it was in Punk's hometown of Chicago. Really goes to show the power of that "shoot" promo last year and Cena as a top guy. Lesnar/Cena was almost on that level actually. Punk/Jericho was a great match but it couldn't touch Lesnar/Cena more I think about it.


----------



## KingCrash

*WWE Extreme Rules*
Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus - World Heavyweight Title - ****1/4
CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - ****
Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena - N/A 

Can't really rate Cena/Lesnar because there really hasn't been anything like that maybe ever in WWE, just as killing by Brock. Finish irked me a little but didn't really take away from the match. Liked Sheamus/Bryan a little more then Punk/Jericho, crowded being into the entire match helped and like all their matches Jericho/Punk seemed to take a little while to get going. Still a great three matches for a ppv that might have been better then Wrestlemania.


----------



## MF83

Modern said:


> Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus ****3/4


This


----------



## jawbreaker

Think I'm gonna go ****1/2 on Sheamus/Bryan. Bubz summed it up well enough that I don't have to, but I think I just liked it more than he did.

Fell asleep either towards the end of Punk/Jericho or during the Lesnar/Cena video packages. Wasn't really feeling anything special out of Punk/Jericho, but I need to go watch Lesnar/Cena now.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus - ****. Great match, awesome crowd, bad finishes.
CM PUNK vs. Chris Jericho - ****
Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena - Awesome


----------



## 777

EmbassyForever said:


> Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus - ****. Great match, awesome crowd, *bad finishes*.
> CM PUNK vs. Chris Jericho - ****
> Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena - Awesome


Really? I can see someone not being keen on 'the' finish, but the sequence for the first and second falls was great stuff.


----------



## seabs

_*Bryan vs Sheamus - ****1/4
Punk vs Jericho - ****
Lesnar vs Cena would have been ****1/2 if it weren't for the finish being the dumbest move ever.*_


----------



## EmbassyForever

777 said:


> Really? I can see someone not being keen on 'the' finish, but the sequence for the first and second falls was great stuff.


Yeah now i'm agree with you because Bryan looks strong here (he even kicked-out from brogue kick)


----------



## dj161

Bryan vs Sheamus was a thing of beauty.............that is all


----------



## Ali Dia

Seabs said:


> _*Bryan vs Sheamus - ****1/4
> Punk vs Jericho - ****
> Lesnar vs Cena would have been ****1/2 if it weren't for the finish being the dumbest move ever.*_


just saw the show, my exact ratings. Had Lesnar gone on to win that ****1/2 might be higher. I loved this show and I havent said that about many WWE shows lately.


----------



## rafz

dj161 said:


> Bryan vs Sheamus was a thing of beauty.............that is all


YES! YES! Brilliant, just a fantistc match, MOTY for me!

WWE Extreme Rules
_Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan - 2/3 Falls Match_
*****1/2*

_CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - Chigaco Street Fight_
******

_Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena - Extreme Rules Match_
*****1/2*


----------



## peachchaos

Haven't been this pumped to go home and watch a WWE PPV download. Ever.

Hopefully Bryan/Sheamus doesn't disappoint.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Bryan/Sheamus massively overrated by people itt because Bryan actually got time to show some of what he can do. It was a fantastic match though. I loved the booking of the first fall.

Brock/Cena was a thing of beauty. I have not enjoyed a match that much in a while.


----------



## KingKicks

Not as high as others for Sheamus/Bryan and Lesnar/Cena but seriously enjoyed both. I'm sure the next time I watch them that I could go higher. Lesnar/Cena was like nothing I've ever seen before in WWE...I wasn't even sure how to rate it.

Punk/Jericho was just seriously great from start to finish. Loved Punk going insane when Jericho went for his sister.

Punk/Jericho ****-****1/4
Lesnar/Cena ***3/4
Bryan/Sheamus ***3/4


----------



## BKKsoulcity

In the moment, I had Sheamus/Db at **** 1/2, Punk/Jericho ****, and Cena and Lesnar at ****

Watching each match again 2 more times I have decided to change Sheamus/bryan to ****, Punk and Jericho ****, and Cena/Lesnar ***3/4


----------



## seancarleton77

Punk/Jericho ***3/4
Lesnar/Cena ***3/4
Bryan/Sheamus ****


----------



## milkman7

Here is my current top ten

1. John Cena vs Brock Lesnar - WWE Extreme Rules 4/29/12
2. ***** Casas vs Blue Panther - CMLL 3/2/12
3. Dave Finlay vs Sami Callihan - EVOLVE 4/13/12
4. ***** Casas vs La Sombra - CMLL 2/13/12
5. El Hijo Del Santo/Villano IV vs El Hijo Del Solitario/Angel Blanco Jr. - TXT 2/25/12
6. Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - WWE Extreme Rules 4/29/12
7. Dave Finlay vs Tajiri - SMASH 2/19/12
8. Jun Akiyama vs Takao Omori - AJPW 2/3/12
9. El Hijo Del Santo/Villano IV vs El Hijo Del Solitario/Angel Blanco Jr. - TXT 3/23/12
10. Too Cold Scorpio vs Vordell Walker - PWE 1/28/12


----------



## FITZ

BKKsoulcity said:


> In the moment, I had Sheamus/Db at **** 1/2, Punk/Jericho ****, and Cena and Lesnar at ****
> 
> Watching each match again 2 more times I have decided to change Sheamus/bryan to ****, Punk and Jericho ****, and Cena/Lesnar ***3/4


You watched all 3 of these matches 3 times each over the course of 24 hours?


----------



## Saint Dick

Sheamus/Bryan was fantastic but am I the alone one who was bothered by Sheamus' selling (or lack thereof)? Bryan picked apart his left arm for long periods, got disqualified to ensure the arm was truly fucked, made him pass out in a submission hold, and then Sheamus is throwing double axehandles, going for a superplex and hitting a backbreaker with that same arm in the last fall? I know he sold it from time to time but considering the amount of punishment he took it wasn't enough for me. 

Match is at least ****.


----------



## Kid Kablam

Man, if Bryan vs Sheamus had gotten a proper go home sequence, we could have had 4.5-5 range. As it stands, I can't in good conscience give it more than 4.25. Doesn't matter, this was an arrival match that announced both as upper mid card fixtures and future main eventers. Sheamus proved he could work a match that downplayed his size and strength, and Bryan is 1 for 1 on working a main event style match.

Cena vs Brock was a small piece of cinema. I loved the visuals of Brock standing on the stairs in the middle of the ring, and just how sadistic he was. I agree that the ending completely screwed what should have been a Clubber Lang storyline, and could have turned into a great "Dark Period" of Brock killing everything that moved for several months. But hey, what do I know? I never wrote for a soap opera so my opinion means jack.

Punk vs Jericho I'm going to have to watch again.

I am anticipating Punk vs Bryan, but not so much the return of Johnny Ace.


----------



## peachchaos

Bryan vs. Sheamus ****1/4
Punk vs. Jericho ****1/4
Cena vs. Lesnar ****3/4

Great show. On par with WrestleMania. Cena going over made complete sense in terms of the match they worked up until that point. Blood is so essential sometimes. 

The two title matches both delivered in spades. The Street Fight was just a great throwback to the ECW days, with both guys wearing jeans and Punk even dressing similar to Justin Credible. Never thought we'd get kendo sticks in 2012 WWE. The feud has been midly embarrassing, but this was a great sendoff.

I always appreciate Sheamus and Bryan working together and the 2/3 Falls match was no exception. Just a really well worked match with some great storytelling. Almost disappointed that they're pulling the plug on Bryan/Punk so soon, because DB working with both Del Rio and Sheamus could've been excellent.

Also watched the latest episode of ROH, featuring some action from the latest iPPV. I thought Bennett-Storm was pretty decent (around ***) and the Last Man Standing La Revancha Match was really good but not really up to snuff with their PWG work (around ***1/4).


----------



## Goku

Punk|Jericho: ****3/4*
Sheamus|Bryan: *****1/2*
BROCK|CENA: *****3/4*


----------



## EmbassyForever

PWG World's Finest 2012:

El Generico(c) vs. Eddie Edwards vs. Kevin Steen: ***3/4
RockNES Monsters vs. Super Smash Bros. vs. The Young Bucks: ***3/4
Willie Mack vs. Roderick Strong: ***1/2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

My top 5 for the year so far:

Undertaker/HHH WM - ****3/4
Punk/Jericho WM - ****1/4
Sheamus/Bryan ER - ****1/4
Brock/Cena ER - ****

Huh, just top 4 then. Not sure what my 5th would be .


----------



## Chismo

I guess I'll have to watch Extreme Rules these days. Was Cena/Lesnar really that unique?


----------



## milkman7

Expanding my top ten to a top twenty

1. John Cena vs Brock Lesnar - WWE Extreme Rules 4/29/12
2. ***** Casas vs Blue Panther - CMLL 3/2/12
3. Dave Finlay vs Sami Callihan - EVOLVE 4/13/12
4. ***** Casas vs La Sombra - CMLL 2/13/12
5. El Hijo Del Santo/Villano IV vs El Hijo Del Solitario/Angel Blanco Jr. - TXT 2/25/12
6. Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - WWE Extreme Rules 4/29/12
7. Dave Finlay vs Tajiri - SMASH 2/19/12
8. Jun Akiyama vs Takao Omori - AJPW 2/3/12
9. El Hijo Del Santo/Villano IV vs El Hijo Del Solitario/Angel Blanco Jr. - TXT 3/23/12
10. Too Cold Scorpio vs Vordell Walker - PWE 1/28/12
11. Virus/Arkangel De La Muerte vs Fuego/Valiente - CMLL 2/21/12
12. Sami Callihan vs Rich Swann - CZW An Excellent Adventure 1/14/12
13. CM Punk vs Mark Henry - WWE Raw 4/2/12
14. Black Terry vs Chico Che - IWRG 1/22/12
15. Black Terry vs Chico Che - IWRG 1/29/12
16. Blue Panther vs ***** Casas - CMLL 1/27/12
17. Yuki Ishikawa/Yoshiaki Fujiwara vs Tatsumi Fujinami/Mitsuya Nagai - Legend The Pro-Wrestling 1/8/12
18. Daniel Bryan vs The Big Show - WWE Smackdown 1/6/12
19. Jun Akiyama/Kenta Kobashi vs Kensuke Sasaki/Mitsuhiro Kitanomiya - Diamond Ring 2/11/12
20. Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk - WWE Smackdown 2/21/12


----------



## bigbuxxx

JoeRulz said:


> I guess I'll have to watch Extreme Rules these days. Was Cena/Lesnar really that unique?


yes. def worth the 20 minutes.


----------



## antoniomare007

yes it was, snowflakes don't do it justice imo.


----------



## peachchaos

JoeRulz said:


> I guess I'll have to watch Extreme Rules these days. Was Cena/Lesnar really that unique?


A perfectly booked match with pretty much a flawless performance from both guys. The match is so good that the same crowd that boo'd Cena out of building last year at MITB actually cheer him on. 

A match to watch especially if you've read the spoilers. I agree that star ratings don't really do it justice, but a lot of people are simply underrating this because they didn't like the outcome. Match is an absolute spectacle and there's not anything in recent memory that even compares.


----------



## Patrick Bateman

CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan 
Over the Limit 2012


----------



## Zatiel

I'm usually anti-star ratings, but Lesnar/Cena is particularly difficult to quantify. It doesn't excel in the generic WWE match or generic WWE gimmick match way.

The way Lesnar manhandled Cena, even bending his neck in shoves, and the interruptions with refs and officials checking on him. The way Cena kept getting cut off and beat up played off of years of Cena being treated as a superman. Beyond being a spectacle-type match-up, it deliberately deviated from the way these matches usually go. Even Rock/Cena was a very typical Cena-style match. This was Vader-like domination on a guy who never gets treated that way, and to Cena's credit, he sold getting destroyed extremely well, continually struggling with his arm and generally coming across as vulnerable. As opposed to matches like with Barrett or Tensai, he built up Lesnar so that when he got to come back, he seemed impressive for it. And because it cashed in on all that denied emotion from previous PPVs, it certainly felt more gripping and emotional than Sheamus/Bryan or Punk/Jericho to me and the people in my house, even though both of those matches rocked.

Certainly my favorite match of the year.


----------



## Violent By Design

Lesnar vs Cena is easily my match of the year.


----------



## Kid Kablam

JoeRulz said:


> I guess I'll have to watch Extreme Rules these days. Was Cena/Lesnar really that unique?


It really is like a gut punch. Cena makes one huge mistake in the early going of the match, and it almost (should've) dooms him out of the gate. Thos first couple of minutes are what happens when good booking meets good performance.


----------



## Bubz

Zatiel said:


> I'm usually anti-star ratings, but Lesnar/Cena is particularly difficult to quantify. It doesn't excel in the generic WWE match or generic WWE gimmick match way.
> 
> The way Lesnar manhandled Cena, even bending his neck in shoves, and the interruptions with refs and officials checking on him. The way Cena kept getting cut off and beat up played off of years of Cena being treated as a superman. Beyond being a spectacle-type match-up, it deliberately deviated from the way these matches usually go. Even Rock/Cena was a very typical Cena-style match. This was Vader-like domination on a guy who never gets treated that way, and to Cena's credit, he sold getting destroyed extremely well, continually struggling with his arm and generally coming across as vulnerable. As opposed to matches like with Barrett or Tensai, he built up Lesnar so that when he got to come back, he seemed impressive for it. And because it cashed in on all that denied emotion from previous PPVs, it certainly felt more gripping and emotional than Sheamus/Bryan or Punk/Jericho to me and the people in my house, even though both of those matches rocked.
> 
> Certainly my favorite match of the year.


Absolutely. Very hard match to stick a rating on, but what i can say is that it was fucking awesome, and basically everything you said about it. I'm tempted to watch it for a 3rd time now.


----------



## geraldinhio

*John Cena vs Brock Lesnar WWE Extreme Rules 2012 *

Whi ever said Cena is a bad worker and is poor at selling should watch this match. It's commonly agreed now that Cena is a great wrestler but I never enjoyed a match with him this much mainly because it wasn't his same formulatic WWE main event superman match with the five moves of doom and Cena got to play the underdog which he played to perfection.

Brock's performance was awesome too. Looked like such a badass killing Cena with his sick offence. His MMA gear and style are awesome too. Loved how he shrugged off the botch too like nothing happened. Cam't wait to see him wrestle again and I was never the biggest fan. He just brought that aura that many big matches are missing these days.

It was a perfect blend of a shoot style with a WWE style match where both wrestlers did perfect in their roles. I actually found my self cheering for Cena and was marking like a bitch when he hit Cena with the chain. Crowd was awesome too , the action was great and told an awesome story and this is this is probably one of my favourite WWE matches ever.

That being said in terms of entertainment value I find it hard not to give it five.

*****

Still have to watch Bryan/Sheamus and Punk/Jericho.


----------



## bigbuxxx

I thought about the selling element in this match but it's hard not to sell when Brock is laying into him for real. Obviously Brock is holding something back but to think he's not hurting Cena is naive imo. I don't hate giving this 5 either (I'd give it way over 5 for entertainment value) but I'm not gonna bother rating it. It was just something else that has to be seen to be believed. I don't mind the finish or result to much either.


----------



## Violent By Design

damn some of you guys come off as really insecure in terms of voicing your opinion, really if its amazing and highly entertaining, why are some of you guys afraid to call it 5 stars lol?


----------



## Rickey

KingCal said:


> My top 5 for the year so far:
> 
> Undertaker/HHH WM - ****3/4
> Punk/Jericho WM - ****1/4
> Sheamus/Bryan ER - ****1/4
> Brock/Cena ER - ****
> 
> Huh, just top 4 then. *Not sure what my 5th would be* .


Punk vs. Bryan on Raw or Smackdown, Punk vs. Henry? :cool2



> I guess I'll have to watch Extreme Rules these days. Was Cena/Lesnar really that unique?


It was brutal in the best way possible! Like a super villain completely destroying a superhero to the point where it was hard not to root for Cena. You could feel the crowd become disgusted with Brock and hoping that Cena would do something...anything to beat the monster. Consider the fact that kids are witnessing Cena being brutalized 








and honestly yeah it's hard to not want Cena to win. I don't think a heel has gotten the crowd behind Cena since his feud with Barrett/Nexus.


----------



## Last Chancery

Kid Kablam said:


> It really is like a gut punch. Cena makes one huge mistake in the early going of the match, and it almost (should've) dooms him out of the gate. Thos first couple of minutes are what happens when good booking meets good performance.


I loved that one huge mistake he made, because it's playing off the huge mistake he made last month at WrestleMania. They're starting to make the cracks in Cena's armor show, and if it wasn't for a mistake of Brock's own, Cena would have another self-inflicted loss on his record. It's a nice little piece of storytelling that makes the outcome of the match, and Cena's "super" comeback, seem OK. To me, anyway.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Violent By Design said:


> damn some of you guys come off as really insecure in terms of voicing your opinion, really if its amazing and highly entertaining, why are some of you guys afraid to call it 5 stars lol?


i just don't bother with stars anymore. i rarely watch wrestling anymore so i try to enjoy it more than critique it. 

that match very much reminds me of this written by "ditch"



> The 04/08/95 Kawada vs. Taue is the best singles match the two have ever had. People who are fans of Taue... this is the match for you. Basic premise:
> *backstage before the show*
> Baba: "Tosh... you're going to be putting over Akira tonight."
> Kawada: *nod*
> *backstage a little while later*
> Taue: "Baba-san said I'm going over."
> Kawada: *nod*
> Taue: "So... you're going to kick my ass all over the ring."
> Kawada: *nod*
> Taue: "Alright... I'm ready for it. Don't hold anything back."
> Kawada: *stares at him* "You sure?"
> Taue: *nods*


i can just picture McMahon as Baba, Cena as Taue, and Kawada as Brock. The Kawada/Taue match was also very very good.


----------



## Bubz

> The 04/08/95 Kawada vs. Taue is the best singles match the two have ever had. People who are fans of Taue... this is the match for you. Basic premise:
> *backstage before the show*
> Baba: "Tosh... you're going to be putting over Akira tonight."
> Kawada: *nod*
> *backstage a little while later*
> Taue: "Baba-san said I'm going over."
> Kawada: *nod*
> Taue: "So... you're going to kick my ass all over the ring."
> Kawada: *nod*
> Taue: "Alright... I'm ready for it. Don't hold anything back."
> Kawada: *stares at him* "You sure?"
> Taue: *nods*


:lmao thats awesome!


----------



## seabs

peachchaos said:


> The two title matches both delivered in spades. The Street Fight was just a great throwback to the ECW days, with both guys wearing jeans and Punk even dressing similar to Justin Credible. *Never thought we'd get kendo sticks in 2012 WWE.* The feud has been midly embarrassing, but this was a great sendoff.


*They use them in every hardcore match currently along with chairs. Watch all the Orton No DQ matches from last year.*


----------



## Zatiel

Last Chancery said:


> I loved that one huge mistake he made, because it's playing off the huge mistake he made last month at WrestleMania. They're starting to make the cracks in Cena's armor show, and if it wasn't for a mistake of Brock's own, Cena would have another self-inflicted loss on his record. It's a nice little piece of storytelling that makes the outcome of the match, and Cena's "super" comeback, seem OK. To me, anyway.


I didn't see the "one mistake" thing that way, but I can see how someone else would. That's a neat interpretation. To me it was just Lesnar getting flashier and flashier as he came to believe himself invincible, which that whole match did a great job of expressing.



Seabs said:


> *Watch all the Orton No DQ matches from last year.*


What did I do to deserve this?


----------



## antoniomare007

Violent By Design said:


> damn some of you guys come off as really insecure in terms of voicing your opinion, really if its amazing and highly entertaining, why are some of you guys afraid to call it 5 stars lol?


Because star ratings are worthless most of the time. Cena vs Lesnar is just another example of that.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Zatiel said:


> What did I do to deserve this?


They were actually good. Esp. his match vs. Christian @ SummerSlam, was in the top 5 of most peoples MOTY lists.


----------



## Violent By Design

antoniomare007 said:


> Because star ratings are worthless most of the time. Cena vs Lesnar is just another example of that.


I don't rate matches by stars, but what you said doesn't make any sense ~_~.


----------



## antoniomare007

Violent By Design said:


> I don't rate matches by stars, but what you said doesn't make any sense ~_~.


lol. My point was that giving stars rarely tells the whole story about a match's quality. Cena vs Lesnar is just another example of a match that is easier to explain why it was good than giving it a rating, which is why most people aren't giving it "5 stars" and instead are just saying why they thought it was great. 

That probably didn't make sense either but there's times were I just can't put my thoughts in english, lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

Rickey said:


> Punk vs. Bryan on Raw or Smackdown, Punk vs. Henry? :cool2


Punk Vs Henry (1st one) is an option. One of the Punk/Bryan matches might be an option. Probably something else I'm forgetting. I'll have a decent top 5 for 2012 when I do a 2012 project in 5 years time :lmao.

Storm/Roode from Lockdown might be my #5, actually. Loved the finish more than the average fan it seems, and honestly the finish is part of the reason I loved the match so much lol.


----------



## Rickey

KingCal said:


> Punk Vs Henry (1st one) is an option. One of the Punk/Bryan matches might be an option. Probably something else I'm forgetting. I'll have a decent top 5 for 2012 when I do a 2012 project in 5 years time :lmao.
> 
> *Storm/Roode from Lockdown *might be my #5, actually. Loved the finish more than the average fan it seems, and honestly the finish is part of the reason I loved the match so much lol.


I WAS GOING TO MENTION THAT! I thought you didn't like TNA though, I knew someone else liked match on this part of the forum forgot it was you. Yeah that match is probably in my top 5 of the year so far too, I liked the finish too I know it was frowned on a lot when it happened but to me it made sense.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

Doesn't matter if I like a promotion or not, if a match is good then its good, regardless of where it takes place. Even the original ECW has a small handful of matches worth watching!


----------



## Rickey

KingCal said:


> Doesn't matter if I like a promotion or not, if a match is good then its good, regardless of where it takes place. Even the original ECW has a small handful of matches worth watching!


True, true. 

Glad you appreciated it though, I've seen it get pissed on by other forums just for the ending alone. Reminds me of Taker/Bret from One Night Only. Great match! the ending-SPOILERS

*taker being trapped in the ropes.*

would probably be crucified if it happened today but the actual MATCH was one of Bret and Taker's best. Blargh I'm rambling. :topic:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

People who hate the ending are just pissed because they 100% believed that Storm was winning and that he SHOULD have won.


----------



## Rickey

KingCal said:


> People who hate the ending are just pissed because they *100% believed that Storm was winning *and that he SHOULD have won.


Yeah I kinda did too man, my heart jumped a few times in that match because I thought storm had him especially after Storm hit that first super kick. I think some people actually bet on that match >_> At the end of the day I'm not mad because Roode is a great champion.

Fans now a days tend to try and book promotions more than actually sitting down and enjoying the product. You don't have to enjoy everything but you don't have to try and book everything to your liking either. Not everyone will like what you like. Blargh I'm rambling! :cuss: :snrub


----------



## Kid Kablam

Last Chancery said:


> I loved that one huge mistake he made, because it's playing off the huge mistake he made last month at WrestleMania. They're starting to make the cracks in Cena's armor show, and if it wasn't for a mistake of Brock's own, Cena would have another self-inflicted loss on his record. It's a nice little piece of storytelling that makes the outcome of the match, and Cena's "super" comeback, seem OK. To me, anyway.


Having Cena going over wouldn't be such a big deal if it weren't Brock's first match back, and if they hadn't set up a completely different story. I'm very big on following through on the booking you set up, or if there is a change, it had better be for a reason.

They set up a number of great possibilities, and now that's all they can be: possibilities.

This should have started a "dark period" for WWE, similar to the McMahon-Helmsley Era where the bad guys were in charge, and there was noone to stand up to them. Brock and Johnny could have taken out anyone, HHH included, and basically turned the place inside out. You could have also had Brock take the title from Punk, and brought some prestige back to the belt when someone finally takes it from Brock.

As it stands, the beatdown was just a hiccup, a bump in the road.


----------



## mk92071

Am I the only one who didn't like Cena/Lesnar? It seemed like I was watching a bad take on a UFC match, and the lack of anything that wasn't a punch or elbow bothered me. I really felt the the UFC Fighter Lesnar really took away from the match, and I don't see how anyone could give it the 5*. It just seemed really dull with such lack of excitement.


----------



## milkman7

mk92071 said:


> Am I the only one who didn't like Cena/Lesnar? It seemed like I was watching a bad take on a UFC match, and the lack of anything that wasn't a punch or elbow bothered me. I really felt the the UFC Fighter Lesnar really took away from the match, and I don't see how anyone could give it the 5*. It just seemed really dull with such lack of excitement.


Yes. You are the only one.


----------



## seancarleton77

If Cena doesn't have your respect by now you're a total mark!


----------



## milkman7

seancarleton77 said:


> If Cena doesn't have your respect by now you're a total mark!


Seriously. It's hard to not like Cena. He obviously loves his job, and he will do anything it takes for fans to get some sort of enjoyment out of it. Taking a legit assbeating from Bork Laser is proof enough.


----------



## bigbuxxx

milkman7 said:


> Yes. You are the only one.


i went back in the PPV section in the ER thread and bunch of people didn't like the "UFC style". it was quite funny to have every other post be like "this is fucking awesome" and "if i wanted to watch UFC i would watch that".


----------



## mk92071

seancarleton77 said:


> If Cena doesn't have your respect by now you're a total mark!


I respect him as a person, but all he really did in that match was bleed, bump, and then hit the attitude adjustment. I really didn't feel bad for Cena in the match. I thought "He's bleeding pretty bad, damn that sucks." but not to the point were I was sympathizing for him. I just felt kind of bored. I even rewatched the match, and I still didn't like it.


----------



## Caponex75

seancarleton77 said:


> If Cena doesn't have your respect by now you're a total mark!


I loved the match but reading that report that came out recently about Cena being stretched out, he has gotten sour for me.


----------



## Zatiel

Just for the record, I loved Cena/Lesnar and I find UFC unbearable.


----------



## Goku

You should try watching UFC a bit more then.


----------



## seabs

Zatiel said:


> What did I do to deserve this?


*Wasn't directed at you but ok. They're all really good anyway and against opponents you wouldn't expect him to have a great match with, Kane, Sheamus and Rhodes. Pus the Christian NHB match which was on the same level as the Cena/Punk matches last year I thought.*


----------



## Goku

Rewatched both Cena/Brock and Sheamus/Bryan. SO FUCKING AWESOME. Think I'll review them both down the line.


----------



## milkman7

I posted mine a page back, but what do you guys' top 10 look like right now?


----------



## Rickey

milkman7 said:


> I posted mine a page back, but what do you guys' top 10 look like right now?


Aw man...in no real order:

-Okada/Naito-NJPW
-Tajiri/Finlay-SMASH
-Henry/Punk-Raw(1st and 3rd)
-Bryan/Punk-Raw(also the one on the live Smackdown)
-Aries/Shelly-Against All Odds
-Angle/Hardy-Lockdown
-Roode/Storm-Lockdown
-Shaemus/Daniel Bryan-Extreme Rules
-Jericho/Punk-Extreme Rules
-Brock/Cena-Extreme Rules

Runner Ups: Rock/Cena and HHH/Taker from Wrestlemania 28

Really hard to put these in order.


----------



## antoniomare007

*Daisuke Sekimoto & Big Van Walter vs Yoshihito Sasaki & Yuji Okabayashi - Big Japan 28/4/12
*

I'm too tired to write even a short review. But this was very entertaining. Yuji was a fucking beast once again and Walter brought the stiffness.


----------



## Saint Dick

Sheamus v Daniel Bryan - Extreme Rules
-- Fantastic match. The first two falls were absolutely superb. I'm not gonna say Sheamus got carried because his offense was on point, he pulled some cool stuff out of the bag (particularly that Texas Cloverleaf which looked great), and in general had excellent chemistry with Bryan, but let's be honest, this was the Daniel Bryan show. He bumped hard, his control segments were perfect, loved the psychology of sacrificing the first fall in order to fuck Sheamus' arm up, and he worked the crowd like a fucking boss during the downtime prior to the third fall. Everything was brilliant up until the final fall which to me was a bit of a let down. Finishing stretch felt rushed after they had put everything else together so well. Had some issues with Sheamus' selling too. It wasn't unforgivably bad but considering he just passed out due to the pain he was in to lose the second fall he shouldn't have been nailing axehandles and backbreakers. Overall though, still a top notch wrestling match. Definitely the best of both men's WWE careers. With a better third fall I might be calling it MOTY.

****

Brock Lesnar v John Cena - Extreme Rules
-- Unreal. Just unreal. There's never been a match in company history quite like this and I'll venture to say there never will be. Brock was a fucking monster and Cena was fantastic as well. The opening exchange literally couldn't have been any better. This just wouldn't have been the same (it wouldn't have been anywhere near as awesome tbh) without blood and oh man Lesnar busting Cena open with those elbows was ridiculously sick. Loved the style they worked. Loved the realness. Loved the BLOOD. Heard people bitching about the finish. I liked it. I can understand why people might say Cena shouldn't have won in terms of the overall booking direction of the characters involved but as the finish to a badass wrestling match it was fine. The one thing I didn't like was the second ref bump because Brock was clearly looking at the referee when he did it but that's a minor detail. Awesome.

****1/4

That leaves me with:

1. The Undertaker v Triple H - Wrestlemania XXVIII (****1/4)
2. Brock Lesnar v John Cena - Extreme Rules (****1/4)
3. Sheamus v Daniel Bryan - Extreme Rules (****)
4. CM Punk v Chris Jericho - Wrestlemania XXVIII (****)


----------



## Zatiel

milkman7 said:


> I posted mine a page back, but what do you guys' top 10 look like right now?


1. Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena - Extreme Rules
2. Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus 2/3 Falls - Extreme Rules
3. Kana Vs. Syuri - SMASH in February
4. Davey Richards Vs. Michael Elgin - Showdown in the Sun Night 2
5. Shingo Takagi Vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima - Diamond Ring 2/11
6. CM Punk Vs. Chris Jericho - Wrestlemania
7. El Generico & Harashima Vs. Kenny Omega & KUDO - DDT
8. Daniel Bryan Vs. CM Punk - Live Smackdown (Restart-Mania, but they worked harder every time)
9. Kenny Omega Vs. Hiroshi Yamato - AJPW 1/3
10. Low Ki Vs. El Generico - EVOLVE

My list is very incomplete, though. I'm behind on ROH, NJPW, BJW, AJPW and Dragon Gate. I'd imagine after I hit Okada/Naito and Ikkitousen the list would shift up a lot. Mostly been watching 90's Kawada and Kobashi this year, which... would make up the Real Top 10, but not the Happened in 2012 Top 10. 

After the tepid reaction, I was surprised how much I liked Ki/Generico. Ki has been guzzling opponents in shorter matches, so Generico going even with him in the beginning, and actually getting the upperhand a few times in grappling was surprising. They both have awesome timing and could have one of those 25-minute world-beater matches, but this was something subtler. I wound up getting into it a lot more than Finlay and Callihan's finisher-fest later, which was still fun.


----------



## Chismo

antoniomare007 said:


> *Daisuke Sekimoto & Big Van Walter vs Yoshihito Sasaki & Yuji Okabayashi - Big Japan 28/4/12
> *
> 
> I'm too tired to write even a short review. But this was very entertaining. Yuji was a fucking beast once again and Walter brought the stiffness.


Watching this right now... The whole show is awesome and entertaining, actually. Damn, is Big Japan ubercool or what?!


----------



## Groovemachine

My top 10 for the year seems a little different:

1. Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin - ROH Showdown in the Sun Night 2 - ****3/4

2. Triple H vs The Undertaker - WWE Wrestlemania XXVIII - ****1/2

3. Chuck Taylor & Johnny Gargano vs Ricochet & Masato Yoshino - DGUSA Open the Ultimate Gate 2012 - ****1/4

4. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho [Chicago Street Fight] - WWE Extreme Rules - ****1/4

5. John Cena vs Brock Lesnar [Extreme Rules Match] - WWE Extreme Rules - ****1/4

6. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho - WWE Wrestlemania XXVIII - ****1/4

7. Kevin Steen vs El Generico [La Revancha] - ROH Showdown in the Sun Night 1 - ****1/4

8. Adam Cole & Eddie Edwards vs Kyle O'Reilly & Davey Richards - ROH 10th Anniversary - ****1/4

9. The Rock vs John Cena - WWE Wrestlemania XXVIII - ****

10. Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - WWE Extreme Rules - ****


I definitely need to rewatch Bryan/Sheamus as i haven't gone as high as others at all even though I'm a massive D-Bryan fan so I may have been not fully into it when watching the first time. I also may rewatch the ROH 10th Anniversary match; no one else seems to be giving it the love I gave it, so maybe I was on something. From what I recall, it did a good job of elevating O' Reilly and Cole which I was very happy to see, but apart from that I can't quite remember why I originally rated it so highly!


----------



## 777

Fast and loose top five.

***** Casas vs Blue Panther
Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - Extreme Rules
Chris Jericho vs CM Punk - WM
Shingo vs Nakajima - D-Ring
Kenny Omega vs Hiroshi Yamato - AJPW


----------



## Concrete

I've missed a lot but this is what I got so far"

1.Kazuchika Okada vs. Tetsuya Naito (3/04/12)
2.Katsuhiko Nakajima vs. Shingo Takagi (2/11/12)
3.Daisuke Sekimoto vs. Yoshihito Sasaki (3/26/12)
4.Daisuke Sekimoto vs. SUWAMA (1/02/12)
5.Chris Jericho vs. CM Punk (4/01/12)
6.El Generico/HARASHIMA vs. Kenny Omega/KUDO (2/19/12)
7.Kenny Omega vs. Hiroshi Yamato (1/03/12)
8.Yuji Nagata vs. Masayuki Kono (3/20/12)
9.Daisuke Sekimoto/Yuji Okabayashi vs Suwama/Takumi Soya (3/20/12)
10. Prince Devitt vs. Volador Jr. (3/30/12)

I really don't know why I felt the need to include the 12 every time.


----------



## Bubz

Finally watched Punk/Jericho from Extreme Rules and I loved it. What I did see when I watched it live on tv (the middle stretch) I thought was a lot better this time around, probably because of actually seeing the start and end of the match lol. Great, great brawl of a match that was long but so easy to watch. Great spots including the elbow through the table, code breaker with the chair and all the weapon shots looked great too. I preffered it to their WM match by quite a bit actually. I loved everything in here including Punk almost losing his balance on the top rope before the elbow, it really sold the effects of the match. Awesome stuff. *****1/4 *

I also re-watched Bryan/Sheamus again and I liked that even more this time. Still have it rated at *****1/4*, but now at the higher end of that rating. Bryan is the man.

Brock/Cena would probably be in the **** range if I were to rate it match wise, but as a sheer spectacle of a match, nothing comes close, no not even Taker/HHH. Incredible to watch. In the context of the match I still think the finish was fine and worked well too. Great PPV.

Oh and this would be my top 10 btw. Naito/Okada is pretty much a lock for number 1 at this point, but everything after in the ****1/4 range isn't really in a specific order...

Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito (NJPW 04/03) ****1/2
Daisuke Sekimoto vs Suwama (AJPW 02/01) ****1/4
Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus (WWE Extreme Rules) ****1/4
Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin (ROH SITS Night Two) ****1/4
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki (NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI) ****1/4
Katsuhiko Nakajima vs SHINGO (D-Ring 11/02) ****1/4
Go Shiozaki vs Takeshi Morishima (NOAH 22/01) ****1/4
CM Punk vs Chris Jericho (WWE Extreme Rules) ****1/4
Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yoshihito Sasaki (BJW 26/3) ****1/4
Suwama vs Seiya Sanada 2/3 Falls (AJPW 04/03) ****1/4


----------



## FITZ

mk92071 said:


> I respect him as a person, but all he really did in that match was bleed, bump, and then hit the attitude adjustment. I really didn't feel bad for Cena in the match. I thought "He's bleeding pretty bad, damn that sucks." but not to the point were I was sympathizing for him. I just felt kind of bored. I even rewatched the match, and I still didn't like it.


I hate to break it to you my friend but your reaction to the beating that Cena took is a likely sign that you do not have a soul. I hate being the one to break it to you and anyone else but if there wasn't a part of you pulling for Cena and hoping he could somehow stop Brock the only explanation I can come up with is you've managed to let your hate totally blind you or you lack a soul.


----------



## Bruce L

*Daisuke Sekimoto & Yuji Okabayashi vs. Suwama & Takumi Soya - All Japan, 3/20*

I've seen people on this board complain about Davey Richards following up a superplex with an ankle lock. I've seen people on this board complain about Tetsuya Naitō not following through on his early-match legwork (whatever that means). I've seen people on this board complain about Sami Callihan doing pretty much everything Sami Callihan does. And yet I have never seen anybody on this board complaining about the spot where Sekimoto German suplexes Okabayashi, who in turn German suplexes their opponent. Seriously, what the f##k? That spot is stupider than all of the aforementioned stuff combined. It was fun and kinda cool the first time I saw them do it, but it's not something you can believably work into your matches on a recurring basis. It makes the 2011 American Wolves trading stereo suplexes with their opponents look natural and logical.

With that said, this was a damn good match. It's unbelievable how good Soya is for his experience level; making him a player in the All Japan/Big Japan feud has done wonders to freshen up something that had become incredibly stale and repetitive by the fourth Sanada & (Manabu) Soya/Sekimoto & Okabayashi match. And of course, gotta give props to the ridiculously hot crowd, almost always the MVP of any Japanese interpromotional match. Considering how little of a crap I can bring myself to give about Big Japan, they continue even a year later to provide some of the best and hottest matches in All Japan, despite the continued presence of my least favorite spot in wrestling today. ***¾


----------



## Zatiel

Cage-Taylor Phitz said:


> I hate to break it to you my friend but your reaction to the beating that Cena took is a likely sign that you do not have a soul. I hate being the one to break it to you and anyone else but if there wasn't a part of you pulling for Cena and hoping he could somehow stop Brock the only explanation I can come up with is you've managed to let your hate totally blind you or you lack a soul.


My favorite match of the year and I was rooting for Lesnar the whole time. Always have enjoyed the monster beating up the top good guy, though. It gave me warm Vader tingles.

Yeah, I said it. Warm Vader tingles.


----------



## mk92071

Cage-Taylor Phitz said:


> I hate to break it to you my friend but your reaction to the beating that Cena took is a likely sign that you do not have a soul. I hate being the one to break it to you and anyone else but if there wasn't a part of you pulling for Cena and hoping he could somehow stop Brock the only explanation I can come up with is you've managed to let your hate totally blind you or you lack a soul.


Thanks for clarification. I guess I am the lovechild of Davey Richards and Eddie Edwards.


----------



## seabs

*Yoshihito Sasaki vs Daisuke Sekimoto - BJW 26.03.2012*
_Big match feel, hot crowd and an awesome Yoshihito Sasaki performance. Terrific match. Sasaki's performance in this is right up there with Sekimoto's against Suwama and Cena and Lesnar's at Extreme Rules. Looked terrific in peril, comeback rocked and his selling was sublime. Neck work was neat and formed a nice base for the match early on and then the progressive long term selling of a fucking battle from both men was something else. They execute the epic type match perfectly and have a great finishing stretch with great near falls but never even border on doing too much. I'm normally not crazy about sudden turnaround finishes but this was executed perfectly. Sasaki just swinging wildly at Sekimoto and going all in ruled and it was made even better by not just Sasaki's selling and his desperation faces but by Sekimoto's selling and his faces when he was getting slapped and his post match selling too._

*****1/4*

*Wasn't crazy about the semis. Sekimoto/Bones was fun but middle portion was really dead. Didn't like Sasaki/Callihan. Too many meh chops and not enough hitting each other in the face. Callihan's face wash kicks were awful and that ring post spot was embarrassing. Adam Cole in the opener was amazing though.*


----------



## milkman7

The ringpost spot was more on Sasaki for not ducking, but if Sami was Finlay, Sasaki's face would be a lot more dented in right now.


----------



## Bubz

I hated Sami/Sasaki. There was nothing about it I liked in the slightest.

Sekimoto's performance in that match is amazing though, and yeah Sasaki was great too. I did think that maybe he could have sold his neck more towards the finishing stretch but apart from that it was an amazing match.


----------



## milkman7

BUBZ said:


> I hated Sami/Sasaki. There was nothing about it I liked in the slightest.


So you're telling me you didn't like the part where two dudes beat the shit out of each other? That is professional wrestling right there.


----------



## seabs

*The ringpost spot felt more to me like Callihan was supposed to hit Sasaki and Sasaki was the one to do the missed chop into the ring post spot (which he did after). Neither guy looked overly great from it though. 

I didn't think it was that great of a "two dudes beating the shit out of each other" either. Too many meh chops and not enough being punched in the face. Sami's selling at the end pissed me off too with how he'd just leap back up and not sell anything. Sasaki did it in the final but actually sold the punishment prior to it whilst making his comeback.*


----------



## Cactus

Here's my top 10 so far. Some questionable inclusions on here, I know.

1. John Cena vs Brock Lesnar (WWE Extreme Rules; 2012/04/29)
2. Dave 'Fit' Finlay vs Sami Callihan (EVOLVE 11; 2012/04/13)
3. Daisuke Sekimoto vs Suwama (AJPW; 2012/01/02)
4. Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito (NJPW; 2012/03/04)
5. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho (WWE WrestleMania XXVIII; 2012/04/01)
6. Atsushi Aoki & Kotaro Suzuki vs Atsushi Kotoge & Daisuke Harada (NOAH; 2012/22/01)
7. Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin (ROH Showdown in the Sun Night 2; 2012/03/31)
8. CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan (WWE Raw; 2012/01/30)
9. Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada (NJPW; 2012/02/12)
10. Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yuji Okabayashi (BJW; 2012/02/26)


----------



## Bubz

milkman7 said:


> So you're telling me you didn't like the part where two dudes beat the shit out of each other? That is professional wrestling right there.


Lol yeah that is porfessional wrestling, but that doesn't mean it was good. Theres more to a match than that and this match didn't have anything in it that I thought 'hey, that was good'. Almost everything in it annoyed me from Callihan constantly trying to be a badass and screaming, sticking his middle finger up whenever Sasaki did something and just being generally annoying. Selling was bad, strikes didn't look that good like Seabs said and the finish was overkill. I didn't think either guy looked good, and both came off as trying to hard to be intense and badass. I just really don't like Callihan and he managed to make Sasaki look mediocre in it even though we all know he isn't.

Talking of Sasaki...

*Yoshihito Sasaki & Yuji Okabayashi vs Daisuke Sekimoto & Big Van Walter (BJW 28/4)*
Hell yeah! This was awesome. Great strong tag match here with a really good story too. This is my first time seeing BVW, and man he was fucking awesome! Don't know how accurate this is but from this match he reminded me of a cross between Stan Hansen and Mike Awesome. I loved the workover on Sasaki with the big men going after his neck and wearing him down. When Okabayahsi got in there It got hella awesome and he is starting to get over as fuck. The crowd was going crazy when he lifted Walter up for the torture rack. There was a sick double german suplex spot that Sekimoto does so well but the exchanges with Walter and Sasaki were so great adn were the real highlights. Walter going over the Strong Climb champion was awesome and sets up their match for the belt perfectly, made Walter look like a beast and gives an awesome underdog story to their match when it happens. Great stuff and a ton of fun, my tag of the year. ******


----------



## Word

If anyone cares Dave 'The Great' Meltzer gave Cena/Brock ****1/2.


----------



## 777

Don't worry Milkman, your not the only one who enjoyed Callihan/Sasaki. It was just fun, not a MOTYC.

Sami has come a long way and working in Japan like he has is only going to help him get even better.


----------



## antoniomare007

I was really entertained with Sami vs Yoshihito. The ending was too much but I was more than fine with everything else.


----------



## TelkEvolon

Yessssss, BJW talk for an entire page.

I enjoyed Sasaki/Callihan, thought they really did a great job bringing the hate, I remember watching it after watch Rock vs Cena and wishing they had brought an ounce of what Callihan/Sasaki were doing.

Nothing amazing, but a fun match. Liked it more than Bones/Sekimoto and still havn't got around to watching the final and I'm thinking that tag team match will also been watching.


----------



## seabs

*The 6 man is skippable. Decent but skippable.*


----------



## antoniomare007

TelkEvolon said:


> Yessssss, BJW talk for an entire page.
> 
> I enjoyed Sasaki/Callihan, thought they really did a great job bringing the hate, I remember watching it after watch Rock vs Cena and wishing they had brought an ounce of what Callihan/Sasaki were doing.
> 
> Nothing amazing, but a fun match. Liked it more than Bones/Sekimoto* and still havn't got around to watching the final* and I'm thinking that tag team match will also been watching.












you watched the semis but didn't stay watching 30 more minutes of one of the best matches of the year?

c'mon breh...


----------



## bigbuxxx

Watched my first BJW match yesterday and first time I've seen Seikimoto and Sasaki. That match from 3/26 really had me sucked in. Great story there. I'd put this as the second most enjoyable match I've seen this year behind Brock/Cena.


----------



## Chismo

I loved Sami/Sasaki from semi-finals. Great match (***3/4), with the most simple and effective storytelling in pro wrestling: two dudes knocking the shit out of each other.


----------



## peachchaos

RAW - 01-30-2012 - CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan ****
Smackdown - 02-21-2012 - Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk ***1/2
RAW - 02-27-2012 - CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan ***

Just went back and reviewed the Champion vs. Champion Series from earlier this year as kind of a primer for their title bout at Over the Limit. These two were absolutely born to wrestle each other. The first match gets the most time and is probably pretty comparable to what we'll get on pay per view, albeit with a more heat since the title will be on the line in the main event of the big monthly show. Anyway, the 1/30/12 opener is a really well rounded performance from both guys and really only suffers when a clean ending is sacrificed to make way for the Punk-Jericho feud. The two rematches also feature top performances, but are ultimately crushed under the weight of the WrestleMania build-up and the GM feud. So the groundwork is there, all they have to do is let these guys work for 20 minutes without interference and it should be a MOTYC. As it stands, this served more as a plot device to further other angles, with the first meeting slightly standing out as a really good match. And now I cannot wait for Over the Limit.


----------



## Zatiel

Watched the Ikkitousen this afternoon.

Once again, not that impressed with Sekimoto. He's fun at doing his few brutal moves over and over, but I hate how he keeps reverting to a bland wrestler just standing around in-between the moves. When he slaps on a Boston Crab he makes his mean face and looks scary; seconds later he's got indy-face like he's trying to remember what comes next or where the camera is. I know I'm spoiled watching dudes like Kawada and Kobashi who had some of the best facial expressions ever and wouldn't break character if they broke an arm, but it's annoyed me about him for years.

In the finals with Sasaki it stood out worse since the first half was Sekimoto plodding around and hitting him until he finally fired up. Sasaki, on the other hand, was good at the fire and at looking lost (in a good way) when he got whooped. My favorite bit was Sekimoto refusing to take the spear and just trying to choke him out. I wish I got that boss-vibe from him more.

Match of the tournament for me was Callihan/Sasaki. Sasaki was just as passionate as he was in the finals, only more rested and playing a more even striking match, while Callihan was a much expressive opponent. My favorite of the BJW "hit dudes until they stop getting up" style matches I've seen recently. It's almost like they enjoyed looking terrified mid-bump.


----------



## jawbreaker

I think I've seen like three matches I'd throw in the MOTYC range this year: Bryan/Sheamus, Steen/Generico, Richards/Elgin, in that order. Need to watch Lesnar/Cena and a fuckton of BJW apparently. Also the PWG shows because I know I'll find some tag match everyone else ignores and give it ****1/2 or something.


----------



## antoniomare007

*Yoshihito Sasaki vs Big Van Walter - BJW 5/5 "Endless Survivor" *

Another great underdog performance by Yoshihito, and Walter did his part beating the shit out of Sasaki. Before the final sequence there was a point were they traded an unnecessary amount of false finishes for my liking but it wasn't that big of a deal. At least they were able to bring some real life to the Yokohama crowd near the end. It's totally worth a look but it's only a borderline MOTYC, imo.


----------



## rees22

Elgin v Richards


----------



## jawbreaker

rees22 said:


> Elgin v Richards


thanks for your immense, timely contributions to this thread


----------



## EmbassyForever

Really liked Ki-Generico from Evolve 10. Haven't saw Ki since his return to the independence scene so i'm happy he isn't a spot-monkey with MOVEZ~! anymore like he was as Kaval. Great match, should be longer. ***3/4


----------



## seabs

antoniomare007 said:


> *Yoshihito Sasaki vs Big Van Walter - BJW 5/5 "Endless Survivor" *
> 
> Another great underdog performance by Yoshihito, and Walter did his part beating the shit out of Sasaki. Before the final sequence there was a point were they traded an unnecessary amount of false finishes for my liking but it wasn't that big of a deal. At least they were able to bring some real life to the Yokohama crowd near the end. It's totally worth a look but it's only a borderline MOTYC, imo.


*Didn't like this. BJW at Yokohama just isn't the same BJW in Korakuen. Walter wasn't dickish enough for my liking and he felt a bit off. If the last few minutes happened on an Indy show then people would be lamenting it and I felt the same about it. Sasaki took all of Walter's big stuff and then just got back up and didn't sell any of it like it never happened. Woke the crowd up at least but the end didn't justify the means in this case. 

Daisuke/Yuji tag was a let down too. Fun match but I really didn't want a fun whacky Brahmans match here. Especially after the initial match was vs Kasai/Numazawa which probably would have been awesome. Shame All Japan didn't send a replacement team but I guess it coincided with Champions Carnival. *

*Daisuke Sekimoto & Big Van Walter vs Yoshihito Sasaki & Yuji Okabayashi - BJW 28.04.2012*
_Kinda standard Strong BJ tag but a standard Strong BJ tag right now fucking rocks. Isn't on the level of the Strong Climb main events or the Akebono invasions but that's more of a testament to how great they were there. Hoped they'd be more dissension between Walter and Sekimoto as partners like at 16 Carat but there wasn't. Worked fine all the same and Walter got some good heat. Sekimoto doing his usual double teams with Walter was a great touch. Walter's super underrated right now. Some of his strikes are straight up nasty and he's a great monster in control. Okabayashi looked like a fucking beast coming in off the tag. He isn't quite at the point where he's a great singles wrestler but holy cow he's immense in tags. Strong BJ + Korakuen Hall is a winning combination if ever there was one._

******


----------



## Bubz

was hoping Sasaki/Walter would be great. I'll still give it a watch I think. Also, forgot to say before but yeah, Yuji was awesome once he got the tag in that match ^^.


----------



## antoniomare007

Seabs said:


> *Didn't like this. BJW at Yokohama just isn't the same BJW in Korakuen. Walter wasn't dickish enough for my liking and he felt a bit off. If the last few minutes happened on an Indy show then people would be lamenting it and I felt the same about it. Sasaki took all of Walter's big stuff and then just got back up and didn't sell any of it like it never happened. Woke the crowd up at least but the end didn't justify the means in this case.
> 
> Daisuke/Yuji tag was a let down too. Fun match but I really didn't want a fun whacky Brahmans match here. Especially after the initial match was vs Kasai/Numazawa which probably would have been awesome. Shame All Japan didn't send a replacement team but I guess it coincided with Champions Carnival. *


With that ending, I knew you wouldn't like it . I thought it was kinda fitting though, Yoshihito did one last flurry of offense as a last resort and it worked. Walter didn't work over any body part for me to be annoyed by Sasaki's comeback to the level of not liking the match (it wasn't perfect by any means, but didn't think it was that bad). Sure, he beat the shit out of Yoshihito but not to the point were an adrenaline-induced fighting spirit comeback wouldn't be believable.

Still, it wasn't a great match nor anything close to that. But it does deserve getting a look, imo.

The tag match was exactly what I expected. A fun match but nothing more than that. Kinda shocked you thought it could/would be any different. There's almost no chance of a better match with the Brahmans involved unless it's in Korakuen.


----------



## seabs

antoniomare007 said:


> With that ending, I knew you wouldn't like it . I thought it was kinda fitting though, Yoshihito did one last flurry of offense as a last resort and it worked. Walter didn't work over any body part for me to be annoyed by Sasaki's comeback to the level of not liking the match (it wasn't perfect by any means, but didn't think it was that bad). Sure, he beat the shit out of Yoshihito but not to the point were an adrenaline-induced fighting spirit comeback wouldn't be believable.
> 
> Still, it wasn't a great match nor anything close to that. But it does deserve getting a look, imo.
> 
> The tag match was exactly what I expected. A fun match but nothing more than that. Kinda shocked you thought it could/would be any different. There's almost no chance of a better match with the Brahmans involved unless it's in Korakuen.


*The ending didn't annoy me as much as Sasaki just shrugging everything off at the end. Might have worked with a hotter crowd and if Sasaki made the comeback after the powerbomb and not after getting planted on his skull. I probably would have been fine with it all if Sasaki sold the moves more. Their match in wXw last year was much better anyway.

The Brahmans tag was exactly as I expected it to be. I just didn't want to see that type of match for the titles on this show, especially when it was the replacement for Kasai/Numazawa which would have been totally different. Brahmans are a fun undercard act but I don't want them in top of the card matches like that. *


----------



## djmathers1207

Seth Rollins vs. Kassius Ohno from FCW 4/29/12 **** 1/2-**** 1/4


----------



## dk4life

djmathers1207 said:


> Seth Rollins vs. Kassius Ohno from FCW 4/29/12 **** 1/2-**** 1/4


Wow, why is no one talking about this more, that was awesome


----------



## Sephiroth

Link us, please


----------



## Last Chancery

Yeah, I was hesitant to ask why it hadn't been talked about yet out of fear that it was a discussion pages back and I had missed it. Guess not. Rollins/Ohno is definite 4.25 territory.


----------



## FITZ

Well it sounds like I need to see a link of this match. I can only imagine how great that match could be now that Rollins/Black has been improving in FCW.


----------



## Clique

If the match is getting that type of praise I'm going to have to see it too!


----------



## Sephiroth

Only halfway into it (nothing special so far) but the match gets negative five stars for that huge distracting Alex Riley banner in the background. lol

Edit: 

FCW TV 4/29/2012
*FCW Title*: Seth Rollins vs. Kassius Ohno - *** 3/4*

Are you guys like total FCW marks or something because that wasn't as great as you guys hyped.


----------



## EmbassyForever

*FCW TV 4/29/2012*
*FCW Title:* Seth Rollins vs. Kassius Ohno - ***1/4-***1/2
Great match but hell not a in the **** level. Could be a 3 and half stars but the finish was lame..

EDIT: Oh and btw the crowd is so bad...


----------



## Caponex75

Their ROH title match was leagues above this match.



> Seth Rollins belt swinging is really fucking stupid and Hero remains one of the only guys in this universe who doesn't know how to build his fucking finisher. If you want it to be shocking when the guy kicks out then it is best for IT TO HAPPEN PREVIOUS TO THE MATCH! Geez. Debuting a finisher in a match that the guy is going to kick out of is retarded. Besides that, good/alright match. Hero needs to drop that hand stand to the outside btw. Granted it is a nice looking move but I am terrified at the thought of him missing it. I get the reason Rollins colored his hair but just leave it black man. Some hidden highlights are best left hidden.


----------



## 777

Hate writing to debunk the overrating on Ohno/Rollins. It was a great match with some really nice spots and sequences, but I can think of several reasons why it's nowhere near MOTY quality. Chief among them being Rollins' lack of selling on all of KO's head and neck work.


----------



## Bubz

Yeah Rollins/Ohno wasn't _that_ good at all. It was a decent match at best and they could have so much better.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Jericho & Del Rio - Orton & Sheamus was great. Really enjoyed it and the finish was awesome. ***3/4


----------



## xpantherx

Chikara's "Hot off the Griddle"

Sara Del Rey vs. El Generico - ****
Eddie Kingston vs. Kevin Steen - ***1/2


----------



## dk4life

Really, you guys thought it was that bad? Ohno/Rollins in talking about chaps, ok yes Rollin kicking out of the Ohno Blade was just stupid, after how much they were building it up during the match, and left a little sour taste in my mouth, but I liked the rest of it, and the slingshot thing they did was pretty cool, I would put it around the **** guess I'm easy to please thou, haha


----------



## EmbassyForever

Chikara's "Hot off the Griddle"

Sara Del Rey vs. El Generico - ****1/4
Eddie Kingston vs. Kevin Steen - ***1/2


----------



## Bubz

Del Rey vs Generico sounds awesome!


----------



## EmbassyForever

BUBZ said:


> Del Rey vs Generico sounds awesome!


Yeah that was so awesome. Enjoyed it a lot!!! Sucks i knew the result.


----------



## seabs

*Shinjiro Otani vs Daichi Hashimoto - ZERO-1 25.03.2012*
_Feels like ages since I checked in with Otani and he's still every bit as awesome as he was in everything he was in last year. Student/Teacher dynamic is done really well here. Otani gives Daichi plenty both in kayfabe and booking terms. Match is obviously booked to make Daichi look great in losing and then story of the match has Otani seeing what Daichi can give as well in the opening parts where he gives him shots in a show me what you got fashion. Loved Daichi knowing Otani's face wash was coming and fighting against it but eventually the master has his way and gets his spot in. Really liked the layout of the match with Daichi never winning if you like but at the same time also never losing and keeping up with Otani until the end. Daichi really stepping up towards the end and threatening to gain the upper hand causing Otani to finally put him away was great too. Once again Otani works a super match and once again he gets the booking of young Hash spot on too._

******


----------



## MF83

Karl Anderson -vs- Tanahashi Hiroshi (NJPW; 2012-04-08) 
A no bullshit Tanahashi match wherein he sells nearly perfectly and uses effective strikes? WHAT DA?! Unique transitions, spots, and counters without stretching it longer than it needed to go! The finishing stretch (if you can separate it from the bulk, it was quite seamless thanks to Mr. Third Gear) was paced exquisitely. I've had problems with Anderson's knee offense in the past but because of the length, how it comes into play (watch how Anderson is able to rise to his feet at the same time as Tanahashi after _that_ counter). It did not payoff with a late game submission, but there are other methods of paying limb psych off and they used it effectively in the match. No overkill, logical fall tries. Damn, I have no qualms with this match. Terrific. *****1/2 ~82-84%* for a first time rating.


----------



## Bruce L

Finally saw Richards/Elgin. Wow. I don't know if I'd go the full five stars for it, but if not, it's definitely still in the upper echelon of RoH matches. Easily the best match from both Davey Richards and RoH in general since _Best in the World 2011_, maybe the best match from both Davey Richards and RoH in general since the main event of _Richards vs. Daniels_. (I'm not as high on the _BitW_ main event as I was at the time, mainly because knowing how abysmal the rest of 2011 was for the company has robbed it of its "Beginning of the Davey Richards Era!" excitement.) Elgin looked absolutely amazing; if RoH handles him right and nobody else snatches him up, they'll have another Samoa Joe on their hands. Davey responded to Elgin's greatness with his best performance in a long time; I know a lot of people hate his following up a superplex with an ankle lock, but it worked here. (Part of that is that he immediately went for a cover after the superplex, and only grabbed the ankle lock in frustration when it didn't work; I don't know if that grace note was there in earlier, less acclaimed matches where he did it. A bigger part is that Angle, Kanemoto, Shamrock and others have done a more than satisfactory job establishing the ankle lock as a hold that requires no setup, that can be locked on at any time in the match and be devastating.) As an actual wrestling match that I feel comfortable comparing to other actual wrestling matches, it's easily my MotY so far.

That's because Cena/Lesnar from _Extreme Rules_ did not strike me as an ordinary wrestling match that can be properly compared to other wrestling matches. I won't say I felt the "magic" others described, but I knew watching it that I was seeing something very different from what I typically get in professional wrestling, and something very interesting. Surprised the finish is such a lightning rod for controversy; Cena has never looked less like "Superman" in battling back to win than he did here, and having him beat Lesnar (who is, after all, not going to be around much) is a far more defensible booking decision than having him lose to the Rock (who isn't going to be around at all). Both guys' performances were stellar, with Cena doing arguably career-best work, and Lesnar proving that he could actually "bring legitimacy back" to WWE if only the company was interested.


----------



## Violent By Design

i dont get how two matches can't be compared to one another, if i can compare a lucha libre match to a WWE match, I think one can compare just about any thing .

meh, Davey Richard's match at Best in the World was average at best, and that's coming from someone who saw it live. If this new match with Elgin (I don't even know who that is) isn't better than that, then I have low hopes for ROH.

I am interested in Del Rey vs Generico. Anyone got a link to that?


----------



## seabs

*Austin Aries vs Alex Shelley - TNA Against All Odds 2012*
_Why aren't more people talking about this as being a great match? Isn't really high end stuff but it's easily one of the better matches of this year so far. Really well paced, structured and laid out. Both guys are super in their role, Aries being the cocky dickhead and Shelley being focused on winning the belt after returning. Shelley going for the Sliced Bread numerous times early on set it up really nicely for when he hit it and got a near fall out of it. I've always though Borash should be the voice of TNA on commentary and he proved why during this. So much better than goffy "I don't give a shit anymore" Tazz. Shelley's selling was subtle but super and bonus points for playing into the finish as well as the story of Shelley coming back from his injury and it still being a weak spot. Easily better than anything to come out of TNA last year, maybe since the end of 2009._

******

*Caught up on a load of stuff in the past day or two. None of this is really MOTYC level but it's all great and worth watching even if not essential.*

*Daisuke Sekimoto & Kazuki Hashimoto vs Kohei Sato & Daichi Hashimoto - ZERO-1.24.04.2012*
_Kazuki Hashimoto takes great strides forward in his quest to be the greatest thing to happen in 2012. Has to the best in ring character anywhere in wrestling right now. Such an incredible overcocky young shithead who thinks he's way better than he actually is. The spot where he steal Otani's face wash on a Z1 show and blows a kiss at Sato while doing it was incredible. Even better how he hit the ropes nearer the middle so Sato couldn't cheap shot him after his kiss. SHITHEAD. Both Hash's looked great in this. Sekimoto and Sato just kinda sat back in this and it was nearly all the rookies. Partner Daichi up with Otani and give the vets more time in the ring and this'll be my MOTY. Post match is crazy good too. Shithead Hashimoto just sat in the ring flipping everyone off as Sekimoto brawls with Daichi was amazing and made even better by him literally scurrying away when the Z1 guys made their way back to the ring. Greatest shithead ever. Told everyone he'd break out this year[/smug]_

*Akebono & Shinjiro Otani vs Atsushi Onita & Masato Tanaka - ZERO-1.24.04.2012*
_Once again really good, moments of absolute greatness but just missing something to make it stand out. Akebono's been awesome for a while now and the great performances are starting to come out now as well. This might be the best of them all as far as Akebono performances go. Tanaka and Onita manage to bring the big man down during the brawling on the outside and Akebono ends up getting cut open. Akebono with blood running down his face making murderous faces is something not to be missed. Gets even better when Onita spits red mist on his face at the end. Horrible set up for the Sliding D's at the end but I guess nobody lands in a sitting position during a wrestling match naturally, let alone someone like Akebono._

*Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Toru Yano - NJPW 01.04.2012*
_Takes a while to get going but then the last 5 minutes are really fantastic when Tanahashi goes into super main event worker mode. Super back and forth exchanging near falls and counters. Isn't as great as their G1 match last year but much better than their title match from last year._

*Karl Anderson vs Shinsuke Nakamura - NJPW 05.04.2012*
_This was awesome up until Nakamura got control and shrugged off all of Anderson's terrific early leg work. Chain wrestling and the leg work up to that point was awesome though. After it's still good but they never get back up to that point and that stops it being great and just really good. Anderson's a great FIP and Nakamura is obviously as good as ever. _

*Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Karl Anderson - NJPW 08.04.2012*
_Really good sprint. Thought Tanahashi's leg selling hurt it though. Seemed to just forget it and blow it all of half way through. Would have been a legit MOTYC if he hadn't though. Carrying the leg injury through from the Naito match and Anderson using the same leg work that he had success with against Nakamura was neat. All you can really ask for from a semi on the same day as the final though really is for a fun sprint and that's what this ended up being. Had the potential to be a great match as well as a fun sprint but you still get a really good sprint so you're still a winner. Last few minutes are nuts with the crowd really getting into it. Anderson's really over with the Korakuen crowd and he's been really fucking good for about a year now so hopefully New Japan take note of that and give him a decent push as a singles guy._

*Kenny Omega vs Shigehiro Irie - DDT 01.04.2012*
_One of the better junior matches this year but junior matches have sucked this year so it's a tainted compliment. In any era this is really good though, just not MOTYC level. Stage spot was super and lead nicely into Omega's rib injury. Really well paced and both guys looked super. Best match of Omega's title reign bar the Yamato match._


----------



## djmathers1207

Kota Ibushi vs. El Generico from DDT 5/4/12 **** 1/2 **** 1/4


----------



## Rickey

Finally more love for Aries/Shelley, top 3 match in TNA this year so far. There's so much more other stuff I need to check out and it's mostly puro. I don't really keep up with it as much just a few matches here and there.


----------



## MF83

Weird, I sincerely believe that is one of Tanahashi's best selljobs in recent times.


----------



## Chismo

*Sami Callihan vs. A.R. Fox (EVOLVE 12)*

Fantastic match and a great way to end the feud. Both guys went balls out, and they completely woke up the crowd. They did not overuse weapons, and they were building towards big spots. The selling was fine, and they've managed to innovate some things, despite wrestling each other plenty of times already. This was even better than their Tables Match from Open The Golden Gate. Legit MOTYC.
*Rating: ****1/4*


----------



## Bubz

That Shelley vs Aries match was great. I also really enjoyed Anderson vs Nakamura in the NJ cup earlier so I need to check out their last match.


----------



## EmbassyForever

BUBZ said:


> That Shelley vs Aries match was great. I also really enjoyed Anderson vs Nakamura in the NJ cup earlier so I need to check out their last match.


Awesome match, hot crowd.


----------



## Chismo

*Kurt Angle vs. Jeff Hardy (TNA, Victory Road 2012)*

Ummm, yeah, talking about underrated matches. Miles and miles better than their No Surrender '10 and Lockdown '12 encounters. Just watched this and couldn't believe how actually great this was. Can you imagine a match with ZERO Ankle Lock attempts? Well, this is the one, folks. This match had a great heel/face dynamics, strong athleticism, smart and exhausting work, and a dusty finish that setups the Lockdown rematch. The selling was very acceptable too, the crowd was hot, and the most important thing - they were not spamming their finishers. Angle was pretty damn good here, but (I can't believe I'm saying this) Jeff Hardy was the one who elevated this match. You could see he was trying to make up for the VR '11 fiasco, and the result is his best match and performance since the Cage Match against Punk. Believe it or not, this bout is MOTYC, and TNA's best effort in 2012. Better than Aries/Shelley.
*Rating: *****


----------



## seabs

*Kota Ibushi vs El Generico - DDT 04.05.2012*
_Really good match but also disappointing in many ways. Ibushi protecting the injured arm at the start was super but although he did a good job of selling it at the time it kinda got lost at the end. I can live with that though because they worked more as Ibushi protecting the arm because he'd just had surgery on it rather than trying to sell it being injured. Generico working in control of a match vs a great babyface sell job is so strange but he's good at it. Hurt that the crowd wasn't all that into him though. Expected the crowd to be much hotter for this than they were considering it was Ibushi's first match back and Korakuen was packed to the brim. Ibushi still looks so phenomenal on offence and it's so great to see him back after so long. _

*Takao Omori, Manabu Soya & Masanobu Fuchi vs Seiya Sanada, KAI & Hiroshi Yamato - AJPW 07.05.2011*
_Not a MOTYC but 100% worth watching for MASANOBU FUCHI outworking the entire wrestling universe. Fuchi's seriously incredible in this and he has been for a while now working this character. He's past it now but he still keeps going as if he's in his prime against these younger guys and he's a relentless little pest. In this he turns into cunning old bastard as well. Yamato slaps him during the opening exchanges and the reaction from Fuchi and then the crowd is awesome. From then Fuchi's determined to make an example of Yamato and take him school. The closed fist spots behind the refs back were incredible. Adored how he'd do open hand shots to the head when the ref was looking and then as soon as the ref turned his back he'd close the fist. The other guys are really good in this too btw but this is the Masanobu Fuchi show and it's well worth getting a ticket too it._

*Daisuke Sekimoto, Yuji Okabayashi & Kazuki Hashimoto vs Kaz Hayashi, Shuji Kondo & Ryuto Hama - AJPW 07.05.2011*
_Isn't on the level of the top BJW tags this year but fuck me if this isn't tons of fun for a 12 minute tag. Opening pairings are amazing. Sekimoto and Kondo's power match off rocked, Okabayashi/Hayashi was nifty and once again Hash becomes ruler of the universe going up against Hama. I love this little shithead so much. Pairs up with Hama and he's like show me what YOU got to fucking Hama. Gets killed but god damn it that wont stop him. Everyone plays their roles superbly in this and sets up the Sekimoto/Okabayashi vs Hayashi/Kondo match superbly._


----------



## IAmLegend12.21.12

Austin Aries Vs Zema Ion - Impact Wrestling 05/10/2012 {****}

Sheamus Vs Daniel Bryan - 2 Out Of 3 Falls - Extreme Rules {****1/4}

Aj Styles & Ken Anderson Vs Kaz & Daniels - Victory Road {***3/4}

Kurt Angle Vs Jeff Hardy - Victory Road {****1/4}

James Storm Vs Bobby Roode - Lockdown {****1/4}

John Cena Vs Brock Lesnar - Extreme Rules {****1/2}


----------



## DarloKid

Marty Scurll vs Zack Sabre Jr at progress wrestling chapter one i had it at ****3/4 here is the review http://wp.me/p1rVA2-4dq


----------



## Rickey

*TNA Sacrifice 2012*
_Austin Aries vs. Bully Ray
Kurt Angle vs. AJ Styles_


----------



## EmbassyForever

ROH Border Wars:

Kevin Steen vs. Davey Richards - ****1/2
Young Bucks and Mike Mondo vs. ANX and TJ Perkins - ***3/4
Cole - Elgin, Ciampa - Lethal both ***1/2


----------



## Caponex75

*TNA - Austin Aries vs. Bully Ray* ****1/4
May be overrating this but fuck you! Ya'll made Punk/Henry seem like big shit when it was just a very good match. Great big man and little man story but to truly enjoy this match, watch the feud to get all the things worked into this match and watch how it all just beautifully ties together into one big knot. I don't want to ruin anything but they do such a great job at making Ray look like a big jackass and Aries look like a smaller asshole but asshole with a giant turd in him......don't think to much into that because I didn't. One of my favorites for this year.


----------



## KingCrash

You might be overrating it slightly (I think it and Aries/Shelley AAO are on the same level) but it was the best match in TNA since then. The feud building it up has been great, Aries might be the mvp wrestling wise of the year and as much as Ray as been on point lately here he was just perfect. Cringed at the one of the bumps in the match (believe me, you'll know it) and you can see a world of difference between this match and AJ/Angle which while was fine, didn't really have a story behind it and felt lackluster throughout.


----------



## djmathers1207

TNA Sacrifice

Angle vs. AJ
Aries vs. Bully Ray
Roode vs. RVD


----------



## seabs

*Takeshi Morishima & Katsuhiko Nakajima vs Jun Akiyama & Akitoshi Saito - NOAH 22.04.2012*
_Only really worth watching for Akiyama and Nakajima being dicks but that makes it worth watching in it's self. Carries on from there great singles match last year where Nakajima really takes it to Akiyama and Akiyama gives him back everything that he throws at him. Akiyama totally destroying Nakajima on the outside after he dick kicks him on the apron was super. Wanted a big Akiyama/Nakajima confrontation at the end but instead you get a plodding Morishima/Saito finish to set up a Saito title match. Yipee. _

*Go Shiozaki & Tamon Honda vs Kensuke Sasaki & Kento Miyahara - NOAH 29.04.2012*
_Shiozaki and Miyahara provide the same type of hate that Akiyama and Nakajima did but here you get a better match out of it. Sasaki chops hard and he had an epic chop fest in 2005. Move on. Him and Go opened up just by chopping each other until their chests were really red and then tagged out. Sasaki's been fucking awful this year. Thankfully Miyahara was determined enough to carry this team and Sasaki's barely involved in the match after the pointless chopfest. Miyahara's out to make a name for himself and if that means taking out Shiozaki then so be it. Both men really take it to each other and it's great. Honda's a terrific base in the ring too. Loved him just pinning Miyahara straight after Shiozaki killed him on the outside and setting him up for Go to hit him every chance possible afterwards. Sadly NOAH aren't in the business of doing long FIP segments but Sasaki passes by quickly off the tag and then they get back to Shiozaki/Miyahara for the finish. _

******

*Shinjiro Otani & Daichi Hashimoto vs Takeshi Morishima & Katsuhiko Nakajima - NOAH 29.04.2012*
_Much more of a ZERO-1 match than a NOAH match which equals WIN. This made up for all of the actively bad NOAH matches I watched over the weekend (above two being the only exceptions) that looked potentially good on paper. I don't mean average or underwhelming either. Bad. Thankfully Otani's super duper, Daichi and Nakajima re really good and Morishima doesn't do anything to drag the match down. Otani scurrying for his life when Morishima was setting up to dive on him from the ring was the best thing to happen on a NOAH show since 2009. Nakajima's a great dick again and he and Otani really go at it making for some great moments. Daichi's great too. Sold his fucking ass off in the tag vs Akiyama/Saito and he was great doing it here too. NakaShima (omg greatest team name ever, they need to tag under that name forever) lost two matches in the league and Morishima (yes he's still the GHC champ and Nakajima is still the junior of the pair) took the pin in both matches. Hmm. I NEED Kaz and Nak (holy shit at the team names I'm coming up with) vs Otani/Daichi in ZERO-1 this year. Instant MOTY. _

*****1/4*


----------



## smitlick

Kevin Steen vs Davey Richards - ROH Border Wars
****


----------



## IAmLegend12.21.12

Austin Aries Vs Bully Ray - TNA Sacrifice {****1/4}

Kurt Angle Vs Aj Styles - TNA Sacrifice {****}

Samoa Joe & Magnus Vs Kaz & Daniels - TNA Sacrifice {***3/4}


----------



## EmbassyForever

IAmLegend12.21.12 said:


> Austin Aries Vs Bully Ray - TNA Sacrifice {****1/2}
> 
> Kurt Angle Vs Aj Styles - TNA Sacrifice {****1/4}
> 
> Samoa Joe & Magnus Vs Kaz & Daniels - TNA Sacrifice {***3/4}


??
I'm watching the event right now and the next match is Hardy - Anderson... But the Tag Team wasn't ***3/4 at all, ***1/4 at best.
Wow you guys really overrating WWE & TNA matches for some reason....


----------



## darkclaudio

TNA Lockdown:

-Kurt Angle vs Jeff Hardy ***3/4
-TNA World Heavyweight Championship: Bobby Roode vs James Storm ***3/4

TNA Sacrifice:
-Austin Aries vs Bully Ray ***1/2
-AJ Styles vs Kurt Angle ***1/2
-World Heavywweight Championship - Ladder Match: Bobby Roode vs Rob Van Dam ***1/4

Wrestlemania:
-The Undertaker vs Triple H ****1/4
-WWE Championship: CM Punk vs Chris Jericho ****
-John Cena vs The Rock ***3/4

Extreme Rules:
-World Heavyweight Championship: Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan ***3/4
-WWE Championship: CM Punk vs Chris Jericho ****1/4
-John Cena vs Brock Lesnar ***3/4

Others Matchs:

ROH Championship: Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin ****1/4
El Generico vs Kevin Steen - Last Man Standing ****
IWGP Championship: Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito ****1/4
Triple Crown: Jun Akiyama vs Keiji Mutoh ***3/4


----------



## ninetwentyfour

-


----------



## Pickaldo

Can't disagree with the above at all, Evolve 13 was a fantastic ppv.

Davis/Ki, Callihan/Generico, Fox/Gargano and Fox/Callihan all MOTYC as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Zatiel

I really enjoyed Evolve 13, but am surprised people would say so many of the matches are MOTYC. Particularly, I don't see what's special about Fox/Gargano. Folks who are rating it high - can you say what you loved about it?

Davis/Ki I dug greatly. It was Ki's first real challenge in the promotion, as he was unable to bully the heavyweight with technique or striking. The Spinebuster counter to the cartwheel was the coolest thing in any Evolve match that weekend. Ki trying to dominate through his traditional standing game and failing was great, especially for how he sold the frustration, and Davis trying to make the most of the opportunity against him. It's rare that a bigger guy can be such a compelling underdog in wrestling these days.


----------



## Pickaldo

Zatiel said:


> I really enjoyed Evolve 13, but am surprised people would say so many of the matches are MOTYC. Particularly, I don't see what's special about Fox/Gargano. Folks who are rating it high - can you say what you loved about it?
> 
> Davis/Ki I dug greatly. It was Ki's first real challenge in the promotion, as he was unable to bully the heavyweight with technique or striking. *The Spinebuster counter to the cartwheel was the coolest thing in any Evolve match that weekend.* Ki trying to dominate through his traditional standing game and failing was great, especially for how he sold the frustration, and Davis trying to make the most of the opportunity against him. It's rare that a bigger guy can be such a compelling underdog in wrestling these days.


Did you not see Chuck Taylor debut his new move?!
Also Fox hitting his diving senton over the ladder was my fav.


----------



## Pickaldo

Zatiel said:


> I really enjoyed Evolve 13, but am surprised people would say so many of the matches are MOTYC. Particularly, I don't see what's special about Fox/Gargano. Folks who are rating it high - can you say what you loved about it?
> 
> Davis/Ki I dug greatly. It was Ki's first real challenge in the promotion, as he was unable to bully the heavyweight with technique or striking. *The Spinebuster counter to the cartwheel was the coolest thing in any Evolve match that weekend.* Ki trying to dominate through his traditional standing game and failing was great, especially for how he sold the frustration, and Davis trying to make the most of the opportunity against him. It's rare that a bigger guy can be such a compelling underdog in wrestling these days.


Did you not see Chuck Taylor debut his new move?!
Also Fox hitting his diving senton over the ladder was my fav.


----------



## peachchaos

Austin Aries vs. Bully Ray - TNA Sacrifice ***3/4

What a brutal beating Aries took. The action wasn't nearly as entertaining as Brock-Cena but the sick bump to the floor and those nasty chops made this something to watch. I really liked to build-up and story behind this, but Bubba really doesn't have the chops to go out there and put on a classic at this point. A few nice spots thrown in like the one man 3D and Bully actually kicking out of the brainbuster. I checked out Sacrifice just for this match and I wasn't disappointed in the slightest. This was a hell of a beating and makes me want to see more of Aries in TNA.


----------



## Ali Dia

the match was 13 mins, wish it were a tad longer


----------



## Caponex75

I think it's way better than Aries''s match with Shelley which I just can't seem to get into to save me life.


----------



## seabs

*Dean Allmark & James Mason vs Mark Haskins & Doug Williams - ASW:UK 26.02.2012*
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2VeVtpBKLI&list=UUK7K1c0TLzKY0gVJqT1xeLA&index=7&feature=plcp

Really good tag match. Allmark and Mason are super as per. Naturally gifted babyface workers and terrific crowd workers too. Haskins is a great douchey heel and Williams is ok too. Finish rocks post Mason getting caught up in the ropes and selling it like the pro he is. _

******

*Dean Allmark & James Mason vs Rampage Brown & Robbie Dynamite - ASW:UK 17.03.2012*
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx_czbGWXuc&list=UUK7K1c0TLzKY0gVJqT1xeLA&index=6&feature=plcp

Even better than the above tag. Allmark is a really terrific babyface, one of the best around right now. Incredibly sound technically, crisp as fuck with his moves, top notch selling and a terrific crowd worker too. Mason is every bit as good too. Strong face/heel dynamic again in this tag, probably even better. Rampage is surprisingly good for a guy with his build. Finish rocked as per with ASW:UK finishes._

*****1/4*

*Dean Allmark vs Nathan Cruz - ASW:UK 24.03.2012*
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9Umgh40IIo&list=UUK7K1c0TLzKY0gVJqT1xeLA&index=5&feature=plcp

The best of the Allmark matches from 2012 so far imo. Cruz is a great stoogey heel but he's also really sound technically so he has no problem hanging with Allmark in that sense. Allmark is terrific, duh. Super chemistry between the two. Allmark's shine at the start was really well worked and wasn't his standard stuff either. Cruz sells and stooges around off really well too which only makes it better. Picks up to another level come the end as well. All the matches from this year on Deano's youtube page are really good. You can get their from any of the links assuming you're not an idiot._

*****1/4*

*Vordell Walker vs Jon Davis - PWX 28.04.2012*
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8tw7U5t3lI

I always liked Jon Davis even when he wasn't having good matches. Well THIS, this is great. Davis is really good on the mat and chain wrestling with Walker. Was really nice to see more of that side from him rather than just being a powerhouse. Walker's really good in that sense too and they just focus on having a great little wrestling match and totally succeed at it. Anyone who like the Walker/Scorpio match should really like this and anyone who didn't like it should still really like it. Basically everyone should like it so everyone should watch it._

******


----------



## geraldinhio

I've so much to catch up on since my exams are finished. Mostly WWE to catch up on , I'll more than likely watch the Evolve shows first as Callihan/Generico and Finlay/Davis sound awesome. Anything else worth watching from last month? I'll probably give Aries/Ray a watch too.


----------



## Caponex75

HHH/Taker, Lesnar/Cena, and Richards vs. Elgin are more than worthy of a watch.


----------



## ninetwentyfour

Zatiel said:


> I really enjoyed Evolve 13, but am surprised people would say so many of the matches are MOTYC. Particularly, I don't see what's special about Fox/Gargano. Folks who are rating it high - can you say what you loved about it?


Great athletic sprint with Fox going for broke, which makes perfect since considering he already wrestled earlier in the night. Sure, you could point to and say that there was a lack of cohesive story, but done right and it can tell a story in itself. This was trading big moves and leaving it all in the ring done right.

Also, I wouldn't say it was a MOTYC. Thought this thread had been established as more of a go to for matches you need to see, which it certainly is.


----------



## seabs

*Sami Callihan vs El Generico - EVOLVE 13*
_Fuck this is the Sami Callihan that I want. Not the one who overdoes everything but this one who gets his character over enough and still shows he can work. Sami's really great in this so I'm interested in seeing what the Sami marks think of it. Honestly thought he was every bit as good as Generico in this and Generico had a great showing. Psych off at the start was great. Set it apart from every other match right from the get go. You don't get grump veteran Generico much but it always delivers when it does come out. They do a great job of making the match feel significant without ever going out of their way to overpush it's significance and I really liked that. Both men were coming off big back-to-back losses and neither could afford a third in a row so they had a lot to play for. Ki's commentary annoyed me again with his "this is a sport and a job not entertainment" bullshit but it wasn't as bad as the previous show as he didn't bury Generico as much. Callihan going for count out wins was a nice touch which added to the win at any costs arch. Leg injury kinda came out of nowhere but they worked the hell out of it and it played superbly into the teased finishes and the eventual finish itself. Would have had Sami work the leg over more leading to Generico selling it rather than Generico selling it off one kick but it worked so it doesn't matter. Transitions perfectly into the Stretch Muffler spot and then a super final run with Sami focusing on the leg to gain his advantage and Generico going through all of his stuff one leg. I'd probably put Richards/Elgin just ahead of it because the crowd fucking sucked in this and it didn't feel important outside of it's core context but both will be strong contenders for Indy MOTY come the end of the year._

*****1/4*

*Steve Corino vs Sam Shaw - PWX 28.01.2012*
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0hBRdq1U5c

Fans. Meet Steve Corino, most entertaining pro wrestler around. Sam Shaw is a less than average Indy wrestler but Corino ends up having one of my favorite Indy matches of 2012 with him by being the greatest person alive. If ever a match is a one man show this was it. Corino's in full on douchebag mode and his jarring with the fans is priceless. Nothing beast his jibes at the Carlton kid. Watch it and you'll know what I mean. Way too much great shtick to start naming stuff from Corino but it's not all shtick (just mostly) because he grabs a good match out Shaw which he than makes great with his shtick. Plus he gets the ultimate revenge on the annoying kids at the end. Watch until the very end. There's a good little Corino/Rich brawl from PWX on YT too. It's especially worth watching for Corino cutting the promo of the year before the match. Match is good but not essential like this is._

*ACH vs SBC - Metro Pro Wrestling April 2012*
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psQDrnM4ODQ

ACH has surely gotta blow up big time by the end of the year. He's way too good not to. Super fun babyface worker and in this one SBC is a really good heel worker to pair him up with. Commentary banter is really good too and adds a lot to the match. ACH had 2 matches with Jeremy Wyatt in Metro Pro this year prior to this which were both really dragged but dragged a little which stopped them being great. This is shorter, more to the point and thus doesn't drag at all._


----------



## Bubz

*ROH Border Wars*

*Davey Richards vs Kevin Steen*
This felt pretty big right from the entrances, and Steens entrance was awesome. The stare down at the start was really good and built up the tension. This was pretty full on right from the start, but never in the same way something like Davey/Eddie was with a bunch of random spots and moves. Davey started it off quick with the dive to the outside and was great at instantly playing up to the crowd and acting like a dick, that is the Davey Richards I want to see in ROH again. Davey hit an exploder on the apron quite early on after Steen had been dominating him on the outside for a bit, but it felt like an important spot because it gave Davey the advantage and control over Steen that he would get after a move that big, but instead of going straight for the cover, he was more interested in acting like a douche with the crowd and toying with Steen. It came off as him being really annoyed with the crowd for not cheering him which was good. Davey worked over Steens leg a bit, and Steen sold it really well in the long run and it did come back in to play later when Davey hit the dragon screw and started going for the ankle locks. There was still a bit of silly Davey psychology such as the two double foot stomps straight into an ankle lock, although one of them was done with Steens leg trapped in the ropes so it added pressure to the leg so it was slightly more acceptable. Despite that, Davey was fucking great here. The way he gradually got more and more desperate as the match went on and vissibly pissed off at the crowd and the fact he couldn't put Steen away was great, and he even busted out the DR Driver II that he hasn't used in years which is basically like the Jay Driller, but because of the size difference here, it looked fucking brutal. The finishing stretch was awesome with some great nearfalls, especially the second Sharpshooter attempt by Steen which the crowd was going bat shit for. Talking of the crowd, they were incredible, even beating out the Elgin match from SITS, and it really added a lot to the match. the actual finish was great too imo and Steen selling the leg almost all the way through while climbing the buckles or inbetween moves really helped the match imo. the repeated stuggles for the package piledriver were great too. I've read people saying it wasn't long enough, but it must have been about 20 minutes which is a great length, especially the type of match they wrestled, and any longer would have been overkill. I dunno, maybe people wanted another Davey/Eddie style match with tons of moves but this was so much fucking better. Really really great title match, that despite the full on nature, never came off as a spot fest or illogical in any way apart from the one spot I talked about earlier with the foot stomps. The way each guy became so desperate, and especially Davey with his facial expressions and actions was awesome to watch unfold I thought. I'm sure there will be some people who might find more flaws in the match than me but I'm not bothered really. I loved this, my US MOTY so far. *****1/4 +*

Elgin/Cole was really good too, and Eddie/Rhino was very enjoyable. The show as a whole was really great.


----------



## Caponex75

I may have to watch the match again....I thought the DR Driver was a nice touch because Richards had got the ban lifted for it since it is technically a piledriver. And that was your US MOTY over Richards/Elgin? I'm really surprised although I agree the return of heel Richards was a great thing.


----------



## Bubz

Ah, i'd have to think about that to be honest, I need to rewatch both for sure. Both are easily the best ROH matches in some time imo. I wouldn't be surprised if most people liked it less than me, but there was just something about it that gave me that feeling I used to get watching older ROH matches. The awesome crowd, the fact that Steen isn't wanted in the company and the way Davey was cracking under the pressure of beating him gave me a similar feeling to Punk/Cena at MITB last year.


----------



## peachchaos

I just can't bring myself to watch those Davey Richards matches, even with the stellar reviews.


----------



## Caponex75

peachchaos said:


> I just can't bring myself to watch those Davey Richards matches, even with the stellar reviews.


They are that good especially the Elgin match. I normally don't recommend Richards's single matches anymore but his matches with Elgin, Chase Owens, and Steen are pretty great.


----------



## Cactus

*Eddie Kingston vs Kevin Steen - CHIKARA Hot of the Griddle*
_This starts off as your typical indy brawl that you would find in any ROH or PWG grudge match. They fight around the ring spitting at each other and interacting with the crowd. It all leads into to Kingston's comeback nicely. They then trade big moves and get a bunch of 2.9 counts (some felt out of place and it borderline overkill) before the well-placed low-blow to abruptly end the match. The cheap ending leaves room for a future match. Steen was the star here. That man is simply great at being a dickhead. Kingston however, came of as pretty dull in this match. His comebacks felt pretty lame and only worked because of Steen._
*Rating: ***1/4*

*El Generico vs Sara Del Ray - CHIKARA Hot of the Griddle*
_I'm a big Generico mark and I've heard great things about Del Ray so my expectations were quite high. I really enjoyed the character dynamics. Generico didn't want to hit a woman, and Del Ray was offended by Generico's reluctance to go balls-to-the-walls on her so she had to dish out the punishment until Generico is forced to make an effort. Unfortunately, this didn't last long and they scrapped all the character work about eight minutes in and turn the match into an indy wankfest, but a fun one at that._
*Rating: ***1/4*


----------



## Cactus

Seems that *Uraken* wasn't too pleased with my reviews of the matches I posted and sent me this reply through a rep. I was going to reply privately but what's the fun in that? Feel free to chip in your two cents in because I'm wondering if I'm the only person who isn't too high on the two CHIKARA matches.



> Looks like you failed to follow the stories told in both all the way or even past a few minutes in, & pegged them as "typical indy" shit. Kingston's selling was top notch & every move SDR hit Generico with softened up his neck for the piledriver.


I never called them straight-up shit as I gave them a decent rating, but I could see plenty of flaws in them. I looked back at my copy of the event and I can see that Kingston gave great facial expressions when selling but he physically sold the moves like drunk man flopping about. I've always heard Eddie Kingston is a break from the dull Davey Richard's and Roderick Strong's of the US Indy scene, but so far he hasn't yet impressed me.

I looked back at the ending of Del Ray/Generico and yes, Del Ray did do some neck-work. But that doesn't cancel out the fact that I thought they were too reliant on near-falls.

I'm not shitting on CHIKARA for the hell of it. Hell, it's my first time watching. I enjoyed the matches but it's not really my preferred style and I will probably avoid it from now.


----------



## Zatiel

Wait, people are red-repping each other for not liking a match enough? It's not even like Cactus hated the matches.


----------



## Bubz

Not fussed about the red rep thing, but what I don't get is why people post things like that in rep, but not in the thread so as to create some convo or what not.


----------



## Uraken

Eh, I just joined this board, and mainly just to read through stuff in this section, but stuff in those writeups seemed kind of hyperbolic and self contradicting to me. Won't do it again.

If you're talking about Kingston staggering around, the thing is he has a history of knee problems, and he's been playing that into his matches for ages at this point. They even pointed it out on commentary in that match. I guess Kingston working the match around selling his hand after backfisting the ring post and getting it worked over until his comeback isn't the ideal introduction to him. I dunno.

Character dynamics in Generico vs Del Rey were very easy to understand I thought. It wasn't "scrapping character work" as much as Generico was conflicted and had reached that point where he lost his hesitance. Also, it was about as "reliant on near-falls" as every other Generico match, so that seems kind of mind boggling to me if you're a huge Generico fan.


----------



## Chismo

Cactus, you gotta watch Kingston vs. Brodie Lee, much better than Kinsgton vs. Steen.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Hey guys. Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3467-oKauxY. ASAP.

*WWE Smackdown 5/18/12:*

*CM Punk vs. Kane* - ***1/2 (like Henry-Punk, great one)
*Randy Orton vs. Sheamus* - **** (WHAT A MATCH!!!!!!)


----------



## seabs

_*Yeah Pun/Kane was really good. Thought it was on the same level or close to the Henry matches. Orton/Sheamus was way too long and felt dragged out because the crowd were dead for it.*_


----------



## flag sabbath

EmbassyForever said:


> Hey guys. Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3467-oKauxY. ASAP.


Hmmm. A tidy *** match with a few exciting exchanges & a painful looking catch fail on Kidd's moonsault to the floor. Any particular reason you were so eager to share?


----------



## EmbassyForever

Yeah it felt like a PPV match. But i really enjoyed Orton's work on Sheamus's hand (even sheamus screwed this up with a silly comeback) and the match itself was just great. One of my fav TV matches of the year so far..
EDIT: i'm a big fan of Kidd-Henning's feud and imo that match was really great lol


----------



## Bubz

Punk/Kane was great, not on the level of the Henry matches but similar and really good.

I love how they are really selling Bryan as the best submission wrestler in companys history. Really gives him that edge and the way he's been performing he's coming off like I always wanted him to in the company, as a little vicious bastard who will just punish his opponents in the ring. The rib work on Punk in the match and the attack afterwards as well as Bryan talking about it being a target automatically sets up a story to be told in their match on Sunday, and if they deliver like we all know they can, we could be looking at a top end MOTYC. Can't wait for the match now.


----------



## Rickey

Yeah I only saw a little of Kane/Punk but it had to be the best Kane match I've ever seen. Also liked how when Kane started to work Punk's mid section/ribs Cole said something like "You have a bunch of submissions that work that area right?" and Bryan was like "I sure do."


----------



## septurum

Smackdown: May 18, 2012

CM Punk vs Kane- *** 1/2

Randy Orton vs Sheamus- ****

I was pleasantly surprised with both matches as I wasn't expecting either to be as good as they were.


----------



## Bubz

I re-watched both Davey vs Elgin and Steen matches, and I'm taking down my rating for Davey/Steen. I still really liked it, but it wasn't near the level I thought it was on initial watch. I'm going with **** now.

Davey/Elgin was just as great as I first thought though. This is my US MOTY so far and easily the Indy MOTY. ****1/4


----------



## Caponex75

I guess I'm the only one considering giving the match 5 big ones. Only thing that is keeping me from it at this point is the Bucklebomb no sell but that is it.


----------



## Bubz

I really thought about giving it ****1/2, but there were still things in it that Davey did that annoyed me, things that kept me from rating it higher was the top rope Dragon suplex followed by an ankle lock silliness, and I could have done without the double stomps by Davey that didn't need to be there, but neither was enough to take that much away from the rest of the awesomeness in the match. I even loved Elgin no selling that German suplex and I usually hate no selling shit like that, but it was done really well in this match imo and only added to it.


----------



## Caponex75

I don't get why people are angry over that Dragon Suplex/Ankle lock. Ankle Lock is Davey's finisher. It is only logical to go for your finisher when you opponent kicks out of a big time move and isn't like he went for some random move that doesn't finish matches for him(Like a one legged Boston crab). Plus the idea is pretty painful itself. Getting dropped on your dome and then having this guy immediately attempting to break your ankle. So not only is your head bumping but you also have this feeling your leg is going to get torn apart. Plus the Ankle Locks made Elgin's leg giving up so better.

The no selling was great because of how consistent it was and how it had a climax of it's own. Elgin's leg giving up and him getting sliding kick would of been a great finish but Elgin being like "FUCK THIS SHIT! YOU'RE NOT BREAKING ME!" and kicking out at one was awe inspiring. The whole match he just refuses to break under Davey's will(When Richards was bully kicking him, he just stands up, and pie faces him) and that moment when he actually did seem to be broken down(Couldn't charge because of the leg), he STILL refuses to acknowledge the fact anyone can will him to do anything other than himself. Great great match.


----------



## Bubz

Yeah the ankle lock's did obviously add to the spot with Elgin's leg giving up underneath him, but I would have rather them come after something directed at the leg instead of after a huge spot that didn't really lead into it that well imo.

Totally agree on the last paragraph you wrote though, Elgin is becoming possibly my favorite guy to watch in the company after Steen.


----------



## Ali Dia

TNA Sacrifice 2012:
Austin Aries vs. Bully Ray ***3/4-****. Rewatched it properly and they just made everything mean something. Wouldn't mind it going longer. Credit to Ray for getting into the best shape of his career, whilst Aries was in typical top baby face form. I've always thought he worked better as a face.


----------



## Rickey

CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan-WWE Over the Limit 2012


----------



## Last Chancery

Can't quite rate Punk/Bryan yet, but that was a fucking clinic. Perfect selling, no slip-ups, a good crowd, tons of interesting counters and sequences, Punk saying "I HAVE TILL FIVE," Bryan working Punk's abdomen as a callback to their 2004 match. This match had everything. At LEAST ****1/2, might go a little higher after a rewatch.


----------



## Bubz

Yeah I don't have a rating or review yet for it because I was marking the fuck out all the way through it, but Punk vs Bryan was fucking awesome.


----------



## DFUSCMAN

Yeah no ratings yet but Punk vs. Bryan was awesome.


----------



## djmathers1207

Over The Limit

Fatal 4 Way
Punk vs. Bryan



Both are MOTY's for sure


----------



## Bubz

Tag title match and the WHC Fatal 4 way were both great too.


----------



## Sephiroth

WWE Over The Limit
*WHC Title*: Sheamus(c) vs. Randy Orton vs. Chris Jericho vs. Alberto Del Rio - **** *
*WWE Title*: CM Punk(c) vs. Daniel Bryan - ***** 3/4*

Might be overrating it, but that was pure bliss for me.


----------



## Caponex75

Punk/Danielson was great. I'd say ****1/4 ****1/2. Deserves a rewatch though.


----------



## dukenukem3do

John Cena vs Johnny Ace ***** classic and a great unpredictable finish


----------



## Caponex75

John Cena vs. The Ace - ***** 

Incredible contest. I can't believe I lived long enough to see this. I recommend it for everyone. What a finish.


----------



## 777

Punk/Bryan lived up to the hype. All kinds of good shit going on, probable new favorite this year, but will need to re-watch.


----------



## darkclaudio

WWE Over The Limit:

1. WWE Tag Team Championship: R-Truth & Kofi Kingston vs Jack Swagger & Dolph Ziggler **1/2
2. WWE Divas Championship: Layla vs Beth Phoenix **
3. World Heavyweight Championship: Sheamus vs Chris Jericho vs Randy Orton vs Alberto Del Rio ***3/4
4. Brodus Clay vs The Miz *1/4
5. Intercontinental Championship: Cody Rhodes vs Christian **3/4
6. WWE Championship: CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan ****1/4
7. Ryback vs Camacho 3/4*
8. John Laurinaitis vs John Cena N/R


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Punk/Bryan- ****3/4

MOTY so far for me, and I would say there's a fair distance between this and 2nd MOTY (Punk/Jericho WM). But loved the match, and can't wait to see if they can top it next PPV.


----------



## FITZ

Need to see that Punk/Danielson match again. I felt almost like a proud parent watching the match though. Great stuff. 

Oh and the Cena/Ace match gets 5 out of LOLS


----------



## Zatiel

Punk/Bryan was the most I've been into a match since Lesnar/Cena. Definitely need to re-watch it to see how it holds up over time, but in the moment it might have been my favorite match all year. An absolute clinic. Great rib work, great counters. Punk was in the best cardiovascular shape of any of their matches, able to go hold-for-hold and counter-for-counter in some technical exchanges no WWE PPV match has had this year. Also psyched that the finish hints that they'll wrestle again.


----------



## Violent By Design

on first watch, Lesnar vs Cena was still better than Punk vs Danielson by a decent amount.


----------



## antoniomare007

wow, Punk vs Bryan was even better on 2nd watch. Wasn't sure if it was up there with Cena/Brock or Bryan/Fella but I can now say that it sure is.

One thing that I loved was the commentary. Cole, King and Booker put both guys over big time throughout the whole match. It was refreshing and made everything they did in the ring look even better. 

Can't wait for the rematch.


----------



## Last Chancery

Violent By Design said:


> on first watch, Lesnar vs Cena was still better than Punk vs Danielson by a decent amount.


That match had a better crowd but a far worse finish. Win/lose situation, really.


----------



## MrPaiMei

Punk vs. Bryan was amazing. at least ****1/2. For nerds like me, the psychology there is absolutely insane... Punk gets desperate late and starts borrowing spots from Nigel FUCKING McGuinness to try and beat Bryan, and even starts using his ROH catchphrases - I have til 5! - to try and piss him off. I just can't believe they let it end clean. This was basically the exact same match they would have had in ROH (and maybe paced better) except there were less stiff strikes - I see the Cattle Mutilation and Elbow Barrage didn't make it to WWE with Dragon. It sets up a rematch, and if that goes this length with a long finishing stretch and a clean finish you'll be looking at one of the best matches in company history.


----------



## erikstans07

Punk vs. Bryan
Fatal 4 Way

Honorable Mention: the Tag Title match. I really enjoyed that one. Not MOTYC material of course, but I thought I'd throw that out there.


----------



## Kid Kablam

I think that comparing Cena/Brock to a conventional match is an exercise in futility.

Cena/Brock was a gut punch. It was a sick thing that hadn't been seen before. It was a brilliant idea that was executed almost perfectly. Almost.

I loved Punk/Bryan for all the reasons I love most wrestling matches. I loved Brock/Cena because it was like nothing I've seen in a WWE ring. 

Also, at first watch, Bryan/Punk beats Bryan/Sheamus. But only by a little.


----------



## MF83

They kind of lost it in the middle. Bad call in having Punk call the match in my opinion. It was really good and definitely top 20 if not top ten, but for what it could have been Punk/Bryan disappointed me. 

Great PPV through and through though. Main event was tremendous, hilarious funtimez despite the retardicity of placing it last.


----------



## Nuski

Punk/Bryan - **** 1/2


----------



## Bubz

Say what you will about Cena/Johnny Ace, but that '5 time...5 time' bit was one of the funniest things I've ever seen in wrestling. I legit laughed for ages at that. Ridiculously entertaining lol.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Ace/Cena was funny as hell yeah but shouldn't be the Main Event. And the finish was so predictable lol.. I'm watching Bryan/Punk now, after this i will give my full review.

EDIT: lol ROH chants during the match


----------



## Certified G

Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk ****1/4

What an awesome match. Very glad the crowd was into this match all the way with dualing "CM Punk -- Daniel Bryan" chants, YES! chants and even a "This is awesome" chant.


----------



## EmbassyForever

My review:

Pre-show: 
Kane VS Zack Ryder **1/2 (Really nice little match)

PPV: 
Battle Royal N/A (can't rate battle royal)

Jack Swagger & Dolph Ziggler VS Kofi Kingston & R-Truth 
Tag Team Title Match ***

Alberto Del Rio VS Chris Jericho VS Randy Orton VS Sheamus 
Four Way For World Heavyweight Title ***3/4

The Miz VS Brotus Clay DUD

Cody Rhodes VS Christian 
I-C Title **3/4

Daniel Bryan VS CM Punk
WWE Title ****1/2

Camacho VS Ryback N/A

John Cena VS John Laurinaitis N/A - Bad finish, please not another Big Show - Cena feud!!

Overall Rating: 7.0, good to great matches, but a lot of nothing matches either


----------



## seabs

*MOTYC List and Stars:*

*****1/2*
_Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW 04.03.2012_

*****1/4*
_Shinsuke Nakamura & Toru Yano vs Go Shiozaki & Naomichi Marufuji - NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI
Suwama vs Daisuke Sekimoto - AJPW 02.01.2012
Kenny Omega vs Hiroshi Yamato - AJPW World Jr. Heavyweight Championship - AJPW 03.01.2012
Yuji Nagata & Wataru Inoue vs Masayuki Kono & Minoru - AJPW 03.02.2012
Daisuke Sekimoto, Yuji Okabayashi & Kazuki Hashimoto vs Akebono, Ryuto Hama & Yasufumi Nakanoue - BJW 02.02.2012
Ricky Marvin vs Tommy End - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 2
Big Van Walter vs Daisuke Sekimoto - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 2
Finlay vs Johnny Kidd - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 3
Big Van Walter, Daisuke Sekimoto, 2-Face & Kim Ray vs Axeman, Yoshihito Sasaki, Karsten Beck & Robert Dreissker - 8 Man Elimination Tag - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 3
Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin - ROH World Championship - ROH Showdown In The Sun Night 2
Yoshihito Sasaki vs Daisuke Sekimoto - BJW 26.03.2012
Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - 2/3 Falls - World Heavyweight Championship - Extreme Rules 2012
John Cena vs Brock Lesnar - Extreme Rules Match - Extreme Rules 2012
Shinjiro Otani & Daichi Hashimoto vs Takeshi Morishima & Katsuhiko Nakajima - NOAH 29.04.2012
Dean Allmark & James Mason vs Rampage Brown & Robbie Dynamite - ASW:UK 17.03.2012
Dean Allmark vs Nathan Cruz - ASW:UK 24.03.2012
Sami Callihan vs El Generico - EVOLVE 13
CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan - WWE Championship - Over The Limit 2012_

******
_Bad Intentions vs Satoshi Kojima & Hiroyoshi Tenzan - IWGP Heavyweight Tag Team Championships - NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI
Kohei Sato vs Daisuke Sekimoto - ZERO-1 World Heavyweight Championship - ZERO-1 01.01.2012
Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs Akebono & Ryuto Hama - BJW 02.01.2012
Daisuke Sekimoto & Yuji Okabayashi vs Akebono & Ryuto Hama - All Asia Tag Team Championships - AJPW 03.01.2012
SHINGO, YAMATO, Jimmy Susumu, Jimmy KAGETORA & Dragon Kid vs CIMA, Akira Tozawa, BxB Hulk, Genki Horiguchi & Ryo Saito - Dragon Gate 19.01.2012
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada - NJPW 12.02.2012
Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yuji Okabayashi - BJW 26.02.2012
Jerry Lawler, Derrick King & Frankie Tucker vs Pokerface & LA Hustlers - MCW 03.03.2012
Daisuke Sekimoto & Freddy Stahl vs Big Van Walter & Robert Dreissker - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 1
CM Punk vs Chris Jericho - WWE Championship - WrestleMania 28
CM Punk vs Chris Jericho - Chicago Street Fight - WWE Championship - Extreme Rules 2012
Shinjiro Otani vs Daichi Hashimoto - ZERO-1 25.03.2012
Austin Aries vs Alex Shelley - TNA Against All Odds 2012
Go Shiozaki & Tamon Honda vs Kensuke Sasaki & Kento Miyahara - NOAH 29.04.2012
Vordell Walker vs Jon Davis - PWX 28.04.2012_

*Misc.*
_Daniel Bryan vs Big Show - No DQ Match - World Heavyweight Championship - Smackdown 13.01.2012
PAC vs Rich Swann vs Brodie Lee vs Sami Callihan - 2CW 21.01.2012
Bad Intentions & KUSHIDA vs Satoshi Kojima, Hiroyoshi Tenzan & Jushin Liger - NJPW 29.01.2012
Juventud Guerrera vs Zema Ion - X Project 19.02.2012
Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk - Smackdown 21.02.2012
Zack Sabre Jr. vs Yoshihito Sasaki - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 2
Daisuke Sekimoto & Kazuki Hashimoto vs Kohei Sato & Daichi Hashimoto - ZERO-1 24.04.2012
Takao Omori, Manabu Soya & Masanobu Fuchi vs Seiya Sanada, KAI & Hiroshi Yamato - AJPW 07.05.2011
Daisuke Sekimoto, Yuji Okabayashi & Kazuki Hashimoto vs Kaz Hayashi, Shuji Kondo & Ryuto Hama - AJPW 07.05.2011
Steve Corino vs Sam Shaw - PWX 28.01.2012_

_
Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW 04.03.2012
Kenny Omega vs Hiroshi Yamato - AJPW World Jr. Heavyweight Championship - AJPW 03.01.2012
Suwama vs Daisuke Sekimoto - AJPW 02.01.2012
Big Van Walter, Daisuke Sekimoto, 2-Face & Kim Ray vs Axeman, Yoshihito Sasaki, Karsten Beck & Robert Dreissker - 8 Man Elimination Tag - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 3
Sami Callihan vs El Generico - EVOLVE 13
Daisuke Sekimoto, Yuji Okabayashi & Kazuki Hashimoto vs Akebono, Ryuto Hama & Yasufumi Nakanoue - BJW 02.02.2012
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI
Yuji Nagata & Wataru Inoue vs Masayuki Kono & Minoru - AJPW 03.02.2012
Yoshihito Sasaki vs Daisuke Sekimoto - BJW 26.03.2012
John Cena vs Brock Lesnar - Extreme Rules Match - Extreme Rules 2012
CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan - WWE Championship - Over The Limit 2012
Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin - ROH World Championship - ROH Showdown In The Sun Night 2
Finlay vs Johnny Kidd - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 3
Dean Allmark vs Nathan Cruz - ASW:UK 24.03.2012
Shinjiro Otani & Daichi Hashimoto vs Takeshi Morishima & Katsuhiko Nakajima - NOAH 29.04.2012
Dean Allmark & James Mason vs Rampage Brown & Robbie Dynamite - ASW:UK 17.03.2012
Shinsuke Nakamura & Toru Yano vs Go Shiozaki & Naomichi Marufuji - NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI
Big Van Walter vs Daisuke Sekimoto - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 2
Ricky Marvin vs Tommy End - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 2
Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - 2/3 Falls - World Heavyweight Championship - Extreme Rules 2012
Jerry Lawler, Derrick King & Frankie Tucker vs Pokerface & LA Hustlers - MCW 03.03.2012
Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yuji Okabayashi - BJW 26.02.2012
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada - NJPW 12.02.2012
Austin Aries vs Alex Shelley - TNA Against All Odds 2012
_


----------



## Bubz

Naito/Okada is ahead of everything else this year for me to. I honestly don't see much topping it.


----------



## seabs

*Punk/Bryan could easily top it if they let them go all out and have a classic. Probably would have been with a hotter finish. Next PPV match will probably be a Cage match so I don't see it happening there. Hopefully they get a 3rd match at MITB and they give them all the freedom in the world.*


----------



## Bubz

Yeah I can see them having a trilogy of matches on PPV now, especially judging by the end of this one. I hope they don't have them in a cage match, it could be good, but I would rather see them straight up wrestle 3 times like Punk/Cena did last summer but with one extra match.


----------



## smitlick

Seabs said:


> *Sami Callihan vs El Generico - EVOLVE 13*
> _Fuck this is the Sami Callihan that I want. Not the one who overdoes everything but this one who gets his character over enough and still shows he can work. Sami's really great in this so I'm interested in seeing what the Sami marks think of it. Honestly thought he was every bit as good as Generico in this and Generico had a great showing. Psych off at the start was great. Set it apart from every other match right from the get go. You don't get grump veteran Generico much but it always delivers when it does come out. They do a great job of making the match feel significant without ever going out of their way to overpush it's significance and I really liked that. Both men were coming off big back-to-back losses and neither could afford a third in a row so they had a lot to play for. Ki's commentary annoyed me again with his "this is a sport and a job not entertainment" bullshit but it wasn't as bad as the previous show as he didn't bury Generico as much. Callihan going for count out wins was a nice touch which added to the win at any costs arch. Leg injury kinda came out of nowhere but they worked the hell out of it and it played superbly into the teased finishes and the eventual finish itself. Would have had Sami work the leg over more leading to Generico selling it rather than Generico selling it off one kick but it worked so it doesn't matter. Transitions perfectly into the Stretch Muffler spot and then a super final run with Sami focusing on the leg to gain his advantage and Generico going through all of his stuff one leg. I'd probably put Richards/Elgin just ahead of it because the crowd fucking sucked in this and it didn't feel important outside of it's core context but both will be strong contenders for Indy MOTY come the end of the year._
> 
> *****1/4*
> 
> *Steve Corino vs Sam Shaw - PWX 28.01.2012*
> _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0hBRdq1U5c
> 
> Fans. Meet Steve Corino, most entertaining pro wrestler around. Sam Shaw is a less than average Indy wrestler but Corino ends up having one of my favorite Indy matches of 2012 with him by being the greatest person alive. If ever a match is a one man show this was it. Corino's in full on douchebag mode and his jarring with the fans is priceless. Nothing beast his jibes at the Carlton kid. Watch it and you'll know what I mean. Way too much great shtick to start naming stuff from Corino but it's not all shtick (just mostly) because he grabs a good match out Shaw which he than makes great with his shtick. Plus he gets the ultimate revenge on the annoying kids at the end. Watch until the very end. There's a good little Corino/Rich brawl from PWX on YT too. It's especially worth watching for Corino cutting the promo of the year before the match. Match is good but not essential like this is._
> 
> *ACH vs SBC - Metro Pro Wrestling April 2012*
> _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psQDrnM4ODQ
> 
> ACH has surely gotta blow up big time by the end of the year. He's way too good not to. Super fun babyface worker and in this one SBC is a really good heel worker to pair him up with. Commentary banter is really good too and adds a lot to the match. ACH had 2 matches with Jeremy Wyatt in Metro Pro this year prior to this which were both really dragged but dragged a little which stopped them being great. This is shorter, more to the point and thus doesn't drag at all._


Liked the Corino match. Would say ***. His shtick is great though.


----------



## rafz

WWE Over The Limit
_CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan_
*****1/2*


----------



## 777

Seabs, looking at your list (awesome resource by the way), no Shingo/Nakajima? Have you seen? I can't remember if you had reviewed or not.


----------



## topper1

Dragon vs Punk **** 1/2 - **** 3/4 easily WWE moty.


----------



## Bubz

So I re-watched Punk/Bryan, and it was even better the second time. Holy shit what a smart, fun match. Punk's leg work was great and I loved how Bryan gained control by outsmarting Punk. The rib work was awesome by Bryan and Punk's selling was so good, he was holding his ribs for pretty much the whole match during moves and everything. Bryan's leg selling was also great but Punk didn't work the leg hard enough for it to stop Bryan, even though he was always reaching to hold it and it was always the cut off point for Punk. One of the best things about the match was the way it showed Bryan to be Punk's toughest opponent ever. Punk is the best in the world at selling desperation and the effects of a match throughout, and this was probably his best performance in the company in that regard. The way he was getting more and more frustrated he couldn't put Bryan away, even using Nigel Mcguinness's signature move, Bryan's toughest opponent ever. Theres no way that wasn't Punk and Bryan paying tribute to Mcguinness. They beat the tar out of each other too, it seemed like they really wanted to punish the other guy, especially those sick forearms that Bryan threw early on, and then Punk doing the same thing later in the match. Bryan's offense looks so sick, those knees are brutal looking and he really knows how to make it seem realistic. Both guys just going straight for certain body parts was awesome and the transitions between work overs were great and flowed perfectly. I love how they are really putting Bryan over as the smartest and most brutal wrestler in the company, I'm sure that's how everyone wanted him to be booked and right now WWE are doing an amazing job getting Bryan over based purely on his ring work, and holy shit is he over or what? He was getting more cheers than Punk from the crowd. Talking of the crowd, they were awesome. The loud dueling CM Punk/Daniel Bryan chants, the YES chants and the this is awesome chants. This was pretty surreal to see in a WWE ring, it wasn't a WWE style match at all, but the crowd absolutely loved it, and it wasn't as if it was a known smark heavy crowd either. The finishing stretch was great with both guys becoming more and more desperate to win and the finish itself was slightly anti climatic considering the rest of the match, but it was really good in setting up the rematch(s) which I think everyone wants to see so it worked fine, and came off even better on a re watch since I knew what the finish was. A sick, sick match with awesome storytelling, psychology, selling and perfectly executed. But when you have the two best workers in the company (or in the US), you're going to get something great. Give these guys a little longer with a proper, hotter finishing stretch and they will create a masterpiece. *****1/2*

I said earlier I didn't think anything would top Naito/Okada, but this came damn close to doing it, and I would rank it just behind that match in second place.


----------



## Tanner1495

Fuck it, I am giving Bryan/Punk the big *****, even the smallest things in that match made it that much more epic.

Also, the Fatal 4 Way gets **** from me, and the tag title match and Rhodes/Christian gets honorable mentions, not MOTYC stuff, but worth a watch. For a PPV people were meh about besides Bryan/Punk, this really delivered as a good show.


----------



## KingKicks

****1/4 for Punk/Bryan. Such a delight to watch.


----------



## geraldinhio

My God I haven't looked foward to watch a match as much as Bryan/Punk in ages. I forgot that Over The Limit was even on. Sounds like a very hit and miss show. lol at the main event .


----------



## rizzotherat

Tanner1495 said:


> Fuck it, I am giving Bryan/Punk the big *****, even the smallest things in that match made it that much more epic.


I dont see how that makes it *****


----------



## Last Chancery

I'm comfortable giving Bryan/Punk ****1/2 - ****3/4. I think the finishing sequence, or lack thereof, was what really prevented it from getting the full five. Everything else was fantastic as it comes.


----------



## mk92071

I gave Punk vs. Bryan ****. It was really really good or even amazing but I wouldn't go as far as to give it any higher than that.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

> I'm comfortable giving Bryan/Punk ****1/2 - ****3/4. I think the finishing sequence, or lack thereof, was what really prevented it from getting the full five. Everything else was fantastic as it comes.


I don't get why someone would use the finish as a reason to not give the match 5 stars. I mean I understand why to some it's not a 5 star match, but I think the finish was perfect. It was better than:

-A clean Punk win (would've ended the feud with Bryan/made it pointless to continue)
-A clean Bryan win (Would've been incredibly odd and the wrong move)
-A DQ end (A weaker attempt to continue the feud than what we got)
-A count out end (see above)

I wonder what people who didn't like the ending were expecting? I suppose one other thing they could've done logically is have the ref get knocked out, Bryan has Punk beat (by some cheap measure like hitting him with the belt), and ends up losing with the GTS. But honestly that has happened a lot more than what we saw, and some of the best matches of all time don't end with someone hitting their finisher. The only other times I can think of where we had an ending that was similar to what we saw was the Edge/Benoit tap out/pin, and the Taker/Angle tap out/pin (the one time Taker tapped out). It was a fresh, cool thing to do and I think the sequence leading into the Yes Lock was excellent. 

If they go the submission match route next PPV then the ending to the match should be one of the last things to use as a reason to take the match down a notch. 

But out of curiosity, I ask again, what did people who didn't like the ending want?


----------



## seabs

777 said:


> Seabs, looking at your list (awesome resource by the way), no Shingo/Nakajima? Have you seen? I can't remember if you had reviewed or not.


*Didn't think much of it.*


Obis said:


> I don't get why someone would use the finish as a reason to not give the match 5 stars. I mean I understand why to some it's not a 5 star match, but I think the finish was perfect. It was better than:
> 
> -A clean Punk win (would've ended the feud with Bryan/made it pointless to continue)
> -A clean Bryan win (Would've been incredibly odd and the wrong move)
> -A DQ end (A weaker attempt to continue the feud than what we got)
> -A count out end (see above)
> 
> I wonder what people who didn't like the ending were expecting? I suppose one other thing they could've done logically is have the ref get knocked out, Bryan has Punk beat (by some cheap measure like hitting him with the belt), and ends up losing with the GTS. But honestly that has happened a lot more than what we saw, and some of the best matches of all time don't end with someone hitting their finisher. The only other times I can think of where we had an ending that was similar to what we saw was the Edge/Benoit tap out/pin, and the Taker/Angle tap out/pin (the one time Taker tapped out). It was a fresh, cool thing to do and I think the sequence leading into the Yes Lock was excellent.
> 
> If they go the submission match route next PPV then the ending to the match should be one of the last things to use as a reason to take the match down a notch.
> 
> But out of curiosity, I ask again, what did people who didn't like the ending want?


*Felt too sudden for me. With a match as great as it was I was left wanting a lot more from the finish. It was a good finish but I wanted a great finishing stretch and not a cute sudden one.*


----------



## Zatiel

I liked the ending. The match was so much about them being evenly matched on strikes, bodypart-work and even highspots that they wound up returning to technique over and over. Eventually, Punk just won because he was able to take one little advantage, and even then tapped out a second later. A highly technical, evenly-paced and exhausting match ending in a highly technical and evenhanded way like that seemed fine to me. Certainly they pulled it off in execution.

I think some people might have wanted a decisive victory, like Punk finally nailing a G2S and just pinning him. I didn't need that, and am ecstatic that Bryan is probably returning for a rematch after this.


----------



## THANOS

Seabs said:


> *MOTYC List and Stars:*
> 
> *****1/2*
> _Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW 04.03.2012_
> 
> *****1/4*
> _Shinsuke Nakamura & Toru Yano vs Go Shiozaki & Naomichi Marufuji - NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI
> Suwama vs Daisuke Sekimoto - AJPW 02.01.2012
> Kenny Omega vs Hiroshi Yamato - AJPW World Jr. Heavyweight Championship - AJPW 03.01.2012
> Yuji Nagata & Wataru Inoue vs Masayuki Kono & Minoru - AJPW 03.02.2012
> Daisuke Sekimoto, Yuji Okabayashi & Kazuki Hashimoto vs Akebono, Ryuto Hama & Yasufumi Nakanoue - BJW 02.02.2012
> Ricky Marvin vs Tommy End - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 2
> Big Van Walter vs Daisuke Sekimoto - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 2
> Finlay vs Johnny Kidd - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 3
> Big Van Walter, Daisuke Sekimoto, 2-Face & Kim Ray vs Axeman, Yoshihito Sasaki, Karsten Beck & Robert Dreissker - 8 Man Elimination Tag - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 3
> Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin - ROH World Championship - ROH Showdown In The Sun Night 2
> Yoshihito Sasaki vs Daisuke Sekimoto - BJW 26.03.2012
> Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - 2/3 Falls - World Heavyweight Championship - Extreme Rules 2012
> John Cena vs Brock Lesnar - Extreme Rules Match - Extreme Rules 2012
> Shinjiro Otani & Daichi Hashimoto vs Takeshi Morishima & Katsuhiko Nakajima - NOAH 29.04.2012
> Dean Allmark & James Mason vs Rampage Brown & Robbie Dynamite - ASW:UK 17.03.2012
> Dean Allmark vs Nathan Cruz - ASW:UK 24.03.2012
> Sami Callihan vs El Generico - EVOLVE 13
> CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan - WWE Championship - Over The Limit 2012_
> 
> ******
> _Bad Intentions vs Satoshi Kojima & Hiroyoshi Tenzan - IWGP Heavyweight Tag Team Championships - NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI
> Kohei Sato vs Daisuke Sekimoto - ZERO-1 World Heavyweight Championship - ZERO-1 01.01.2012
> Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs Akebono & Ryuto Hama - BJW 02.01.2012
> Daisuke Sekimoto & Yuji Okabayashi vs Akebono & Ryuto Hama - All Asia Tag Team Championships - AJPW 03.01.2012
> SHINGO, YAMATO, Jimmy Susumu, Jimmy KAGETORA & Dragon Kid vs CIMA, Akira Tozawa, BxB Hulk, Genki Horiguchi & Ryo Saito - Dragon Gate 19.01.2012
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada - NJPW 12.02.2012
> Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yuji Okabayashi - BJW 26.02.2012
> Jerry Lawler, Derrick King & Frankie Tucker vs Pokerface & LA Hustlers - MCW 03.03.2012
> Daisuke Sekimoto & Freddy Stahl vs Big Van Walter & Robert Dreissker - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 1
> CM Punk vs Chris Jericho - WWE Championship - WrestleMania 28
> CM Punk vs Chris Jericho - Chicago Street Fight - WWE Championship - Extreme Rules 2012
> Shinjiro Otani vs Daichi Hashimoto - ZERO-1 25.03.2012
> Austin Aries vs Alex Shelley - TNA Against All Odds 2012
> Go Shiozaki & Tamon Honda vs Kensuke Sasaki & Kento Miyahara - NOAH 29.04.2012
> Vordell Walker vs Jon Davis - PWX 28.04.2012_
> 
> *Misc.*
> _Daniel Bryan vs Big Show - No DQ Match - World Heavyweight Championship - Smackdown 13.01.2012
> PAC vs Rich Swann vs Brodie Lee vs Sami Callihan - 2CW 21.01.2012
> Bad Intentions & KUSHIDA vs Satoshi Kojima, Hiroyoshi Tenzan & Jushin Liger - NJPW 29.01.2012
> Juventud Guerrera vs Zema Ion - X Project 19.02.2012
> Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk - Smackdown 21.02.2012
> Zack Sabre Jr. vs Yoshihito Sasaki - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 2
> Daisuke Sekimoto & Kazuki Hashimoto vs Kohei Sato & Daichi Hashimoto - ZERO-1 24.04.2012
> Takao Omori, Manabu Soya & Masanobu Fuchi vs Seiya Sanada, KAI & Hiroshi Yamato - AJPW 07.05.2011
> Daisuke Sekimoto, Yuji Okabayashi & Kazuki Hashimoto vs Kaz Hayashi, Shuji Kondo & Ryuto Hama - AJPW 07.05.2011
> Steve Corino vs Sam Shaw - PWX 28.01.2012_
> 
> _
> Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW 04.03.2012
> Kenny Omega vs Hiroshi Yamato - AJPW World Jr. Heavyweight Championship - AJPW 03.01.2012
> Suwama vs Daisuke Sekimoto - AJPW 02.01.2012
> Big Van Walter, Daisuke Sekimoto, 2-Face & Kim Ray vs Axeman, Yoshihito Sasaki, Karsten Beck & Robert Dreissker - 8 Man Elimination Tag - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 3
> Sami Callihan vs El Generico - EVOLVE 13
> Daisuke Sekimoto, Yuji Okabayashi & Kazuki Hashimoto vs Akebono, Ryuto Hama & Yasufumi Nakanoue - BJW 02.02.2012
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI
> Yuji Nagata & Wataru Inoue vs Masayuki Kono & Minoru - AJPW 03.02.2012
> Yoshihito Sasaki vs Daisuke Sekimoto - BJW 26.03.2012
> John Cena vs Brock Lesnar - Extreme Rules Match - Extreme Rules 2012
> CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan - WWE Championship - Over The Limit 2012
> Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin - ROH World Championship - ROH Showdown In The Sun Night 2
> Finlay vs Johnny Kidd - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 3
> Dean Allmark vs Nathan Cruz - ASW:UK 24.03.2012
> Shinjiro Otani & Daichi Hashimoto vs Takeshi Morishima & Katsuhiko Nakajima - NOAH 29.04.2012
> Dean Allmark & James Mason vs Rampage Brown & Robbie Dynamite - ASW:UK 17.03.2012
> Shinsuke Nakamura & Toru Yano vs Go Shiozaki & Naomichi Marufuji - NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI
> Big Van Walter vs Daisuke Sekimoto - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 2
> Ricky Marvin vs Tommy End - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 2
> Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - 2/3 Falls - World Heavyweight Championship - Extreme Rules 2012
> Jerry Lawler, Derrick King & Frankie Tucker vs Pokerface & LA Hustlers - MCW 03.03.2012
> Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yuji Okabayashi - BJW 26.02.2012
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada - NJPW 12.02.2012
> Austin Aries vs Alex Shelley - TNA Against All Odds 2012
> _


Maybe I missed it somewhere in there, but where is HHH/Taker?


----------



## Bubz

The end did make Bryan look really strong, stronger than Punk even which was awesome and really adds that 'If Bryan is that little bit more careful, he can beat Punk' vibe to the next match. I loved Punk getting out of the ring really quickly instead of celebrating like he usually does, intentional or not but it felt like Punk knew he was beaten and just wanted to get the fuck out of there.

Also, they should really let Bryan start using 'I have til 5'.


----------



## seabs

THANOS said:


> Maybe I missed it somewhere in there, but where is HHH/Taker?


*The match sucked. It's at the back of memory trying to be erased.*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

NO U SUCK SEABS.

You got a link to Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW 04.03.2012? Interested in seeing it since its your current MOTY .


----------



## Bubz

Naito vs Okada...

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xp80wc_kazuchika-okada-vs-tetsuya-naito-njpw_sport?search_algo=1

Awesome!


----------



## peachchaos

Seabs said:


> *The match sucked. It's at the back of memory trying to be erased.*


A truly lame opinion. But at least its your opinion. I'd def go ****1/2 maybe even more upon review. Its hard to put into words really, it was like the last great performance of two legendary stage actors and the audience ate it up. Great storytelling from what I remember, too.


----------



## bigbuxxx

I'm very much with Seabs on the Taker/HHH thing. Worse than their WM27 encounter which i thought was like ***1/2 at best.

Bryan vs Punk @ OTL: ****. Good match. Nothing more really. Had some bad moments of nonselling and the finish was very bad.


----------



## topper1

Seabs said:


> *The match sucked. It's at the back of memory trying to be erased.*


Thank god some wrestling fans are still sane. Clusterfuck of a match that Fanboys already had at ***** before it even happened.


----------



## Bubz

Yeah it wasn't a good/well structured match at all. It felt more like a huge angle than a match. The story telling was good in parts but in others it was just frustrating to watch.


----------



## bigbuxxx

topper1 said:


> Thank god some wrestling fans are still sane. Clusterfuck of a match that Fanboys already had at ***** before it even happened.


Reminds of a match that happened a couple days ago.


----------



## The Streak

Don't do ratings, but if I had to for HHH/Taker and Bryan/Punk I'd have them both at about 4 1/2 for completely different reasons obviously. 

I went to access and saw Dean Ambrose v Seth Rollins twice, both completely different matches, and both we're in the region of 3 3/4 or 4. Dunno if they're on youtube anywhere or something.


----------



## topper1

bigbuxxx said:


> Reminds of a match that happened a couple days ago.


But one was great the other wasn't.

I have never been high on a Punk vs Dragon match before so I didn't know what to expect going in.


----------



## bigbuxxx

topper1 said:


> But one was great the other wasn't.


agreed but that was not my point.


----------



## Tanner1495

Just finished watching Naito/Okada. If this match would of went on like two more minutes, I would say ***** and my MOTY, but since it did not, ****3/4 and #3 on my MOTY list. Still top notch match though.


----------



## Bubz

Tanner1495 said:


> Just finished watching Naito/Okada. If this match would of went on like two more minutes, I would say ***** and my MOTY, but since it did not, ****3/4 and #3 on my MOTY list. Still top notch match though.


Just curious what you have rated above it that high?


----------



## Tanner1495

BUBZ said:


> Just curious what you have rated above it that high?


Taker/HHH and Punk/Bryan OTL. *puts up shield *


----------



## Emperor DC

Bryan/Punk was the nearest the WWE has had to a 5 star match since Michaels/Cena 60 minute match from the RAW in London.


----------



## 777

Okada/Naito doesn't make my top ten for 2012, but not because it wasn't a very, very good match. My reasons are based on my personal filter. I follow Puro sporadically at best but I'm fairly familiar with most of the major players and a healthy number of lesser known talent, but I really wasn't particularly familiar with Okada's work, he seemed to come out of nowhere inserted directly into the title picture. Thus, I wasn't nearly invested enough to get those butterflies.

Great match though, has made me a subsequent fan of Kazuchika's work.


----------



## peachchaos

Purists will obviously shit all over stuff like the Michaels-Taker series, End of an Era, and even Lesnar/Cena, but to me those are the kind of matches that define WWE. They're gateway drugs, stuff non-fans can watch and appreciate. Essentially the pinnacle of Vince's product. Sometimes ya'll act like this isn't a television show with a single creator and show-runner and you try to rate these things based on your perception of a performance art. Which is fine, its your definition, but when I think about the Sopranos finale, I think about the entire series that came before it. So, with that in mind, End of an Era was a beautiful finale for me.

I think it even holds up as a Herb Kunze, psychological performance art piece or whatever as well, but that's just subjective I suppose.


----------



## blink_41sum_182

Chicharito™ said:


> ****1/4 for Punk/Bryan. Such a delight to watch.


Same

Elgin/Richards is still my match of the year so far


----------



## jawbreaker

peachchaos said:


> Purists will obviously shit all over stuff like the Michaels-Taker series, End of an Era, and even Lesnar/Cena, but to me those are the kind of matches that define WWE. They're gateway drugs, stuff non-fans can watch and appreciate. Essentially the pinnacle of Vince's product. Sometimes ya'll act like this isn't a television show with a single creator and show-runner and you try to rate these things based on your perception of a performance art. Which is fine, its your definition, but when I think about the Sopranos finale, I think about the entire series that came before it. So, with that in mind, End of an Era was a beautiful finale for me.
> 
> I think it even holds up as a Herb Kunze, psychological performance art piece or whatever as well, but that's just subjective I suppose.


A more apt comparison would be the Oz finale: an overly long clusterfuck where as much as we tried not to believe it, we all knew what was coming, and despite some great moments, was ruined by unclear character motivations and occasional overacting, serving as a fairly fitting end to something that had gone on too long anyway.


----------



## milkman7

peachchaos said:


> Purists will obviously shit all over stuff like the Michaels-Taker series, *End of an Era*, and even Lesnar/Cena, but to me those are the kind of matches that define WWE. They're gateway drugs, stuff non-fans can watch and appreciate. Essentially the pinnacle of Vince's product. Sometimes ya'll act like this isn't a television show with a single creator and show-runner and you try to rate these things based on your perception of a performance art. Which is fine, its your definition, but when I think about the Sopranos finale, I think about the entire series that came before it. So, with that in mind, End of an Era was a beautiful finale for me.
> 
> I think it even holds up as a Herb Kunze, psychological performance art piece or whatever as well, but that's just subjective I suppose.


All the non-fans I know that have seen the End of an Era match have dumped on it, because it was completely ridiculous. However, Purists and non-fans alike, that I know, love Cena/Lesnar.


----------



## seabs

*Cena/Lesnar was a million times better than Taker/HHH. I can kinda understand why people thought it was great. It was a great piece of cinema but it wasn't a great match. *


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

I can understand why people don't like Undertaker/HHH, but for me its still head and shoulders above anything else this year lol . Helps that I'm such a huge Undertaker mark I'm sure .


----------



## Bubz

jawbreaker said:


> A more apt comparison would be the Oz finale: an overly long clusterfuck where as much as we tried not to believe it, we all knew what was coming, and despite some great moments, was ruined by unclear character motivations and occasional overacting, serving as a fairly fitting end to something that had gone on too long anyway.


:lmao

hey, don't any of you blokes go ruining The Sopranos finale for me


----------



## topper1

peachchaos said:


> Purists will obviously shit all over stuff like the Michaels-Taker series, End of an Era, and even Lesnar/Cena


I only shit on HBK vs Taker 2 and the HHH vs Taker matches because they are subpar. Taker vs HHH last year was the worst of the bunch they would hit a power move lay down for a min or so then get up hit another power move and repeat over and over till the finish.


----------



## -Mystery-

DeeCee said:


> Bryan/Punk was the nearest the WWE has had to a 5 star match since Michaels/Cena 60 minute match from the RAW in London.


:vince3


----------



## mk92071

I didn't like Lesnar/Cena and my non wrestling fan friend didn't like it. He thought it was boring as fuck as did I. He just got a kick out of Lesnar lifting the referee with one hand. I really didn't like it, and I rewatched it and still didn't like it. Nowhere near the top of this year in my book.


----------



## Bubz

I thought it was amazing to watch, but as a match I'd have it around the **** area and no higher.


----------



## Goku

Anything Mystery says.


----------



## Caponex75

*The Spectacle*, The War, and The Clinic.


*The Spectacle*








*The Undertaker vs. Triple H inside Hell In A Cell for the Streak with Shawn Michaels as Special Guest Referee*
*The Build:*
It has been nearly a year since HHH and Undertaker fought at Wrestlemania and it's a hard match to forget. Why? Because Triple H beat Undertaker's ass bad. Real bad. In fact so bad that even though Taker had emerged the winner, he couldn't stand or show up every since. Now times have certainly changed from that moment. New champions have been crowned, stars have risen as well fallen, and there was a new order of power. Triple H had become that man of power. For a wrestler that motto is "just business", his job had became to preserve the business. Clearing up the wrongs and succeeding with the rights is all Triple H had cared about now. Whether it was taking care of high profile stars or cutting ties with those that were a danger to them, it was all about the game and how to take care of it. This was until Taker had returned from after a near year absence. In a rare moment, Undertaker challenged Triple H instead of the other way around but it only got shot down. Triple H didn't care anymore to compete and felt it wasn't his place to destroy something that was precious to WWE. Undertaker would not have it. Unlike Mania's previous to his encounter with Triple H, Undertaker was slaughtered. He was humbled and beaten nearly to death. Hunter had outed him in every possible way one could imagine. He out striked him, he survived the bomb throwing, and even though Taker had won, Triple H could walk away when the Deadman couldn't even make it to his feet. Mania matches were always competitive for the Phenom but that match had left a mark that would stain his career over the passage of time if he did not remedy the situation.

Undertake threw insult after insult at Triple H and Helmsley's best friend in Shawn Michaels even couldn't believe the Game wouldn't bite the bait. Then when all seemed faint and that the Deadman would never get his chance at redemption, he said the magic words that have forever burned a hole in Triple H's soul. "Shawn Michaels was always better than you". That combination of words turned business into personal for HHH. He has cut ties with friends over the thought of it. In 2002, Triple H attempted to destroy Shawn Michaels and bury his career before it had risen back up just because he THOUGHT it. The war had raged on between the two before Triple had ended it in 2004 in, oddly enough, the Hell In A Cell structure. Triple H had taken the role of a business man because there was nothing else for him to do. He had become one of the few Grandslam champions in the WWE, beaten every big name in the WWE(Including the Undertaker), was "The Man" for many years, and his name was affiliated with World Champion. Maybe it all was because of personal success or maybe because he wanted to prove a point. No one was better than him, no one will ever be better than him, and certainly was not the guy he carried for many years on his back that wasn't nearly as accomplished as him. Even if you had not worked for it, this was the straw that would break the Camel's back.

Triple had accepted but only under his condition, Hell In A Cell. A match that was famed by Shawn Michaels's and Undertaker rivalry. A match that The Undertaker's name would become synonymous.....a match that Triple H's name became feared with. Out of 24 Hell in a cell matches, Triple H had been involved him in eight of them. Out of those eight, Triple H had five single matches. Out of those five single matches, Triple H had only lost one. It was his match. The match where whatever remorse he had was left at the door of the Cell and the match where he had ended wars. While it was known as the Devil's playground, it was Triple H's Game. In a another shocking turn of events, Shawn Michaels was named the guest referee. Shawn Michaels has history with Triple H but he also had tales with The Phenom. Shawn Michaels was always the ultimate little man to Undertaker's big man. HBK had defeated Deadman on several occasions but when it was for everything Taker had worked for, Shawn couldn't obtain that legendary achievement that others before him had failed to do. It will always be remembered as some of Shawn's greatest career matches but also be remembered as the reason Shawn's career ended. To say The Showstopper hadn't forgotten it would be a understatement. 

However, green was not only the DX color but may be what Michael's were to represent if Triple H had accomplished what HBK was unable to do. Would Michaels be fair? Would Triple H strike down the beast? Would Undertaker finally get the victory that should of been his last year?

*The Match*:

What makes this match special is that everything comes off as a big deal. Triple H's entrance all the way to Taker's walk to the ring. What may be a hidden highlight or brushed off by some people is Triple H's reaction when the Undertaker reveals his shaved off head. Undertaker never once shown it previous to this match and acting in kayfabe, it would be quite astonishing to see Undertaker's head absent of hair considering his whole career his hair had been quite punctual. Had HHH's devastation of this man truly eat away at The Undertaker that much? The question was answered not verbally but visually. Both men stare each other down before acknowledging the stage that had help them define their career. The stage where Undertaker presented the Cell as no man's land......and the stage where Triple H had presented the cell as His land. The match starts off very similar to last year. No tie up, no getting inside your opponents head with mind games, or anything all that would crawl around the point. The match was a battle and it was going to start off as a battle. Both guys trading blows but unlike last year, Triple H doesn't get the advantage. 

The Undertaker is a different Undertaker from last year. This Undertaker isn't here to prove it isn't his time yet....he's here to prove that he will always be the dog of this yard. The beginning of this match is mostly Undertaker showing that he can still be dominant and that he can still be the man. How does he prove that? By beating Triple H's ass around the cell for about 5 minutes I believe. Triple H's tries to come back with his knee face crusher but that immediately gets eaten up by The Undertaker and gives him a clothesline for his troubles. Triple H, at this point, hasn't even gotten the chance to dictate his own offense or workout his plans. After tasting the steel steps, Triple H finally gets a chance to catch a breather and think of his next move. Triple H's next move turns out to be Pedigreeing Undertaker onto those steel steps the Deadman had been planning to use. A little extreme but understandable. Unfortunately for Triple H, Taker has still has enough juice to fight off the Pedigree and give a ode to last year by back body dropping him off of something that elevates them both. The Phenom then decides that HHH hasn't had enough of that fist salad and proceeds to continue to punch Triple H until he gets that lovely thing we like to refer in wrestling as being "Busted open the hardway". How does Triple H repay him? By giving the Undertaker a Spinebuster onto the steel steps! 

At this point, that is as good as HHH can get as far as getting his foot back in the door. Taker busts out that desperation move that helped him achieve victory last year in the Hells Gate and he gets it locked in tight on HHH. However, Triple H has the best fucking counter for it(As well as the most ballsy) by powerbombing the fuck out of Undertaker. It gets him a two count but this is when the match gets great. Remember when The Game tried to pedigree The Deadman onto the steel steps and that was AFTER his first real offensive move in the match? You do? Well here is what it preluded to or should I say, what it was suppose to tell you was this: Triple H isn't fucking around. After Triple H's extremely nice way of telling the Undertaker to go fuck himself for using the Hells Gate on him, he goes outside with urgency and grabs two steel chairs. If this was a movie, Undertaker would be Tobi and the scene would be if Tobi thought it was a good idea to start calling himself Kunte Kinte again. If you don't get it, Triple H is about to make Undertaker relieve every moment of that ass whipping he received last year including a few extra new scenes JUST because he(Taker) loved it so much. 


What makes this so great is that this is exactly what Triple H was talking about when he said he knew what he needed to do. Triple H has threw less at Taker and beat him at lesser stages but when he threw it all at him on a bigger stage, he lost. That is what caused him or causing him to realize that he has to bring it at a higher level than he has for anyone else and unfortunately for Taker that level is murderer. The Game smacks him with chairs, slams his head into the steel steps, and goes above the Austin limit of destroying people with chairs by trying to eradicate Undertaker with about 19 or 20 steel chair shots. Even the crowd finds themselves booing this near heelish actions. During this beatdown(If we can call it that. At this point it might as well be attempted murder by the way HHH is trying to turn Taker's spine to jelly.), we see Triple H's use of Shawn Michaels. 


Now during Triple H/Undertaker's build last year, Triple H straight up told HBK that he(Shawn) had gone full bitch and lacked the ability to not care about if his opponent is able to wake up the next day. You see, Shawn is the Yin while Triple H is the brutal Yang. Michaels is a christian who will not do to others what he wouldn't do to himself(Like kill his best friend) and at most, fights in the name of competition. Triple H isn't that. He will do onto others however the hell his feels like and fights to win.......whatever the means. There was a point that a guy he had mentored for 2 years and really created a strong bond with, he nearly got him hit by a car. Why? Only because there had been rumors of the man(His friend) contending for his champiionship. Triple H could give less of a fuck about his adversaries and even his friends have felt that wrath at some point. So Triple H being the Yang to Michaels's Yin nearly played a part in Undertaker's defeat.

See whether or not Shawn Michaels called the fight, Triple H was going to do this to the Undertaker. Due to the circumstances though, Michaels was a asset to Triple H tainting the streak. HBK has had many of injuries in his career and he knows first hand what kind of pain wrestlers go through. So to see what Triple H is doing to Undertaker is something that needs to stop. What HHH knows is that if Shawn does call it, that's a win for him. So while destroying the Undertaker, HHH can manipulate HBK's emotions to give him the victory and that is all achieved by what Triple H does best, put people as potential candidates for the ER. Brilliant and I mean Brilliant storytelling by all three guys. 


So Triple H doesn't get the pin after beating Taker to near death with a chair so he smacks the Deadman(Soon to be literally) in the spine with one more chair shot for good measure before grabbing Mr. Hammer. The same Sledgehammer that didn't get to touch Undertaker's skull last year and became the "what if" scenario. Hunter tells the Sexy Boy one more time he better call the match or we are going to see Taker became a retard in the next couple seconds. Taker of course tells Michael no for the 15th time while sounding about as confident as a Drunk man denying himself the pleasure of fucking Kim Kardishan as she stands naked in front of him. Then WHAM! Triple H hits him with the Sledgehammer as the crowd buy it, the commentators seem to buy it, and as I buy it as well.

1





2





Taker KICKS OUT! Triple H can't believe it and now I'm starting to forget this is Triple H's workover section. Hurst gets pissed and now he is on full murderer stage as a he attempts to Gallagher Undertaker. Luckily for Taker(And all the kids who don't watch Saw movies), HBK grabs that shit out of HHH's hand and throws it out of the ring. Helmsely tells him to end it and at this point, Shawn is in a pickle. He respects the Undertaker and understands his streak means everything to him but his best friend almost committed homicide on live PPV. Checks on Taker once.....twice....three times which is enough for Taker to realize at this point, HBK is a liability and takes him out himself Hell's Gate. Of course Triple H breaks this up in the most brutal way possible(With the Sledgehammer) and moves his friend out of way so he doesn't get any of Taker's guts on that nice referee shirt. To bad for him(Hunter) that this was enough time for The Phenom to realize kicking HHH in the dick wouldn't exactly be looked down upon at this point and proceeds to drive his foot into the King Of King's jewelry. Now he definitely won't be having any boys soon!

Locks HHH in the Hells Gate and doesn't get power bombed this time due to the tactical strike to the nut sack. Game goes to Sledgy to get him out of this predicament and like Last Year, he doesn't have the power to will it into one of Taker's organs. Well this moment would tell you it is a foregone conclusion.....or at least it would be had HBK not been sleeping on the canvas. They of course send the marathon runner, Charles Robinson, to call this match now and I don't know if they did this on purpose or not but Robinson being the replacement for Undertaker's referee's has to more than coincidence. Whatever. Undertaker catches Triple H in the chokeslam and gets a great fucking 2.99999 out of it. You want to know what makes that fall the shit and a totally believable nearfall even though Undertaker's chokeslam hasn't beaten a turd? The whole business beforehand with the Hell's Gate and a near unconscious man being hit with a high impact move as soon as he gets up. See? Putting your shit in the right place can make the crowd go bonkers no matter how legitimate or unlegitimate that move is. Same with that Sledgehammer spot from earlier.

Undertaker decides Robinson sucks as a referee and chokeslams the shit out of him too. This match is getting to awesome now. Tombstone coming! SUPER KICK! PEDIGREE! HOLY SHIT COVER!



1



2



THRE----AGH HAWK FUCKING DAMMIT! What the fuck is going on!? Michaels is in the corner with hands over face can't believing what he just did! What a logical reaction to Taker making him pass out earlier! Now Shawn is regretting it because now he is having a WWJD moment and knows that was wrong! Triple H goes and grabs his Sledgehammer so he can officially end this bitch but Shawn tries to redeem himself by trying to stop it! H ain't having it and tosses his punk ass out of the ring! Triple H turns around and Undertaker sits up! "OH SHIT!" Triple H's reaction is priceless! Undertaker starts doing his regular comeback and the crowd is going apeshit! I LOVE THIS! TOMBSTONE! MICHAELS IN!




ONE




TWO




THNOOOOO! Triple H kicks out and Undertaker has the best facial reaction since his match at Mania 25! Shawn, at this point, is not even sure if he is making the right decisions anymore. Headbutt by Taker at Triple H's eyebrow wound so Triple H responds by jacking his jaw with his fist! Both men are just trading blows! Yays for Taker and Booes for The Game! Taker starts to win but Triple H starts to out strike him! Tombstone attempt! PEDIGREE! 1, 2 AND NO FUCKING THREE! You got to be kidding me! Both guys are out of it. Triple H crawls for his trusty sledgehammer....Taker for the chair. Taker grabs the chair and Triple H gets the sledgehammer but Taker steps on it. Amazing visual with Triple H staring up at Undertaker. End of the chair to the face! Chair shot! Chair shot! Taker is now taking Triple H down a path towards memory lane. Michaels pleads for a pinfall as Taker just tosses the now broken chair into the cell. He only gets two and Michaels and Taker are now giving him a taste of his own medicine with lectures. Triple H crawls towards his feet with Sledgehammer in hand as the other two men watch him painfully do so. Words cannot do justice of how Triple H is just realizing how fucked he truly is. It's like he told all the other survivors to run off as he fends off the zombie horde with a broken arm and three bullets. Taker tells him "Don't do it" as Triple H uses his last amount of power to try to smack him with that Sledgehammer.....maybe fool himself that he has enough to come back. Taker defends and shakes his head at HHH who pushes him to tell him(Taker) how pissed off he is. Triple H looks at both HBK and Taker as they look at him in dismay. HBK knows it is over and Undertaker does but Triple H refuses. He tells Taker to Suck His Dick before he eats a Sledgehammer! Straps off and you can see Michaels looking down in the corner remembering this exact same moment with him in Triple H's shoes. Undertaker looks Triple H in the eyes and gives him the sign of death. I can't illustrate how badass that is. Tombstone and Michaels counts the three.

Post match: Lot of selling going on here as Taker celebrates his victory and gives Michaels a hugs since this will be the last we will see of these two concerning for the foreseeable future and they send off the Attitude Era in the best way possible. They also pick up the corpse formerly known as Triple H and drag he carcass to the back but not before saying one final goodbye to the audience. 

*My thoughts:*
The Match is what I like to call the Spectacle......because that is what it is. Everything is presented as a big deal. From the entrances all the way down to the climax of the match. They literally had the crowd in the palm of their hand and everything is immediately gotten. You get why this is happening and you understanding what is going on. Why this is a big deal and why that is a big deal. It's a tremendous storytelling match and I think it might be one of the last we see like this. They made the Undertaker's sit up make people go bonkers....that's saying allot when you don't need to do a move to get that kinda reaction out of people. Not saying that's a bad thing for other wrestlers as I'll talk about it when I review The War but it's something I feel we might not get enough of. Anyway, tremendous match and my only negative would be the beginning needed a little something to it. Oh and this is a three part series explaining my top matches and how they are completely different but great for whatever the audience.
*****3/4*​


----------



## rizzotherat

mk92071 said:


> I didn't like Lesnar/Cena and my non wrestling fan friend didn't like it. He thought it was boring as fuck as did I. He just got a kick out of Lesnar lifting the referee with one hand. I really didn't like it, and I rewatched it and still didn't like it. Nowhere near the top of this year in my book.


Boring?

Seriously you can dislike it. But boring?


----------



## mk92071

rizzotherat said:


> Boring?
> 
> Seriously you can dislike it. But boring?


Yep, the action was inconsistent. There wasn't any flow.


----------



## rizzotherat

mk92071 said:


> Yep, the action was inconsistent. There wasn't any flow.



Still dont buy this was boring. Both of them nearly killed each other will commentary and the crowd were going insane.


----------



## bigbuxxx

rizzotherat said:


> Boring?
> 
> Seriously you can dislike it. But boring?


It's an extended squash match. I really enjoyed it but I can see why people wouldn't.


----------



## peachchaos

It would have been an extended squash, except for the fact that Cena actually won the match and the right guy went over.


----------



## bigbuxxx

It was still a squash regardless of who won. It's not like it was competitive.


----------



## Goku

Extended squashes are my favourite types of matches.

Screw that back and forth BS.


----------



## Bubz

Yeah extended squashes can be the best types of matches sometimes. The first Punk/Henry match comes to mind as a recent one that was great.


----------



## Goku

I remember loving the shit out of Batista/Michaels Stretcher.

Also, a specific HIAC needs to be mentioned.


----------



## antoniomare007

I don't like it nearly as much as most people, but Joe/Kobashi is also an extended squash.


----------



## Caponex75

Joe/Kobashi isn't a extended squash. Though the last part of the match is Kobashi killing Joe.


----------



## Bubz

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Also, a specific HIAC needs to be mentioned.


The GOAT?


----------



## -Mystery-

BUBZ said:


> The GOAT?


HHH/HBK? :troll


----------



## Violent By Design

rizzotherat said:


> Boring?
> 
> Seriously you can dislike it. But boring?


The two more or less go hand and hand. If he found it entertaining, he probably would have liked it.


----------



## Bubz

Nah, wasn't on about that match at all :side: ...Taker/Bossman of course.


----------



## Violent By Design

What the heck is an "extended squash match"? That is more or less contradictory. 

Brock Lesnar vs John Cena is a monster heel vs babyface match, no different from any other for the most part. 


also, nice review Caponex75.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle

-Mystery- said:


> HHH/HBK? :troll


TEY WREZLED FOR 40 MINITZ!!!

Man WWE wanted that match to be the best thing ever ever.

Anyway HHH V Taker HIAC is WWE's best match of the year so far(also HHH's best match of hsi career) DB V Punk is a healthy second.


----------



## Bubz

Personally I wouldn't have it near HHH's best matches.

vs Foley x2 (RR/NWO 00)
vs Austin (NWO 01)
vs Hardy (sometime in 08 I think)
vs HBK x2 (SS 02/RAW 03)
vs HBK vs Benoit (WM 20)

Those are all a lot better than it, for me anyway.


----------



## seabs

*I bet if someone gave me a list of every HHH match I could probably list 100 better HHH matches than the Taker match this year. I can understand people enjoying the match but everyone of those matches BUBZ listed was and still is a million times better as a wrestling match.*


----------



## The Cynical Miracle

BUBZ said:


> Personally I wouldn't have it near HHH's best matches.
> 
> vs Foley x2 (RR/NWO 00)
> vs Austin (NWO 01)
> vs Hardy (sometime in 08 I think)
> vs HBK x2 (SS 02/RAW 03)
> vs HBK vs Benoit (WM 20)
> 
> Those are all a lot better than it, for me anyway.


Well there all great matches (except V Austin, street fight part was great, the other falls not so much) but HHH V Taker was some great theatre aswell as a violent and brutal spectacle and a near perfect match for me personally.


----------



## jawbreaker

Extended squashes are just about the only kind of matches worth watching.

Also vs. Jericho LMS is the best HHH singles match and w/Austin vs. Jericho/Benoit is his best match. This year's HIAC doesn't even register in the conversation.


----------



## Bubz

jawbreaker said:


> Extended squashes are just about the only kind of matches worth watching.
> 
> Also vs. Jericho LMS is the best HHH singles match and w/Austin vs. Jericho/Benoit is his best match. This year's HIAC doesn't even register in the conversation.


Ah nuts, forgot the Jericho match, that's like, one of my favorite WWE matches ever as well. And yeah the tag match is my favorite match he's been involved in. I can watch that so many times and still get into it and love every second.


----------



## Zatiel

Well, finally watched Naito Vs. Okada.

One of the best matches I've seen all year and, despite the hype, one of the most surprising. Okada Vs. Tanahashi didn't do much for me, and whenever Naito has wrestled someone other than Nakamura he hasn't seemed very special either. Somehow these two made each other seem like the biggest stars of a generation. I loved the leg work, I loved Okada getting spurts of offense back but then returning to weakness in the leg, and all the damage he did on Naito's head/neck was great. All the technical wrestling and counters were way above average for a non-Nagata NJPW match. I'm still having trouble buying that Rainmaker Clothesline as a finisher, but all of Naito's evasions and the parallels to his German Suplex attempts really elevated its feeling. What an awesome match.


----------



## mk92071

I finally saw Michael Elgin vs. Davey Richards and it is my American MOTY so far, and possibly my overall MOTY. The only match that I have on par with it is Okada vs. Naito.


----------



## Cactus

*The Young Bucks vs Super Smash Brothers vs The RockNES Monsters - PWG World's Finest*
Everything an indy spotfest should be. Nothing more really needs to be said.
_*Rating: *****_


----------



## Kid Kablam

mk92071 said:


> Yep, the action was inconsistent. There wasn't any flow.


I was ok with there not being flow in the traditional sense. That's actually why I liked it. When Cena goes at it like a real wrestling match, and gets killed on the first salvo, its like when Dragon first hits Apollo. After that, the whole match feels like a long period of up-is-down. Nothing is right. There are very few real hope spots and it feels like we're about to lose the certainty we've had ever since Super Cena showed up. I was in shock, and I knew in advance what was going to happen.

Sent from my ADR6300 using VerticalSports.Com App


----------



## Caponex75

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fk5FUU3EWU

Diamond Ring vs. Shiozaki & Honda gets my seal of approval just for that.


----------



## Bruce L

*Antonio Cesaro vs. Tyson Kidd, WWE Superstars (5/24)*

Definitely falls more into the "match I enjoyed" category as opposed to the "true MOTYC" category, but I felt the need to mention it all the same. Cesaro looks as at home in WWE as any indy guy they've ever brought in, and for my money, there is no wrestler in the world today whose position within his home promotion is as disproportionate to his talent (at least in terms of being much lower on the card than someone of his ability should be) as Kidd. I really hope he and Justin Gabriel are able to get their tag team off the ground once Gabriel returns to action, and that said team leads to bigger things for both guys. To my absolute lack of surprise, he and Cesaro seem made for each other as opponents. Definitely worth a watch.


----------



## Bubz

Yeah Cesaro vs Kidd was a lot of fun. Claudio is made for the WWE.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Impact Wrestling:

Bobby Roode vs. AJ Styles for world championship: ****


----------



## Legend

Glad to see that there are at least some sane people who share my distaste for the recent Taker/HHH match. 

That's a disgusting hour (felt like it anyway) of my life I'll never get back.


----------



## Rah

Caponex75's review of HHH/Taker might actually be better than the match itself.

Noting that I have some free time again (not enough to troll through the previous pages I've missed, however) are there any specific matches I should be on the look out for (from roughly the start of April)? So far I've got:
* Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena (Extreme Rules)
* Sheamus Vs Daniel Bryan (Extreme Rules)
* CM Punk Vs Daniel Bryan (Over The Limit)

There doesn't seem anything worthwhile in Lucha or Puro, sadly, nor on the American Indy circuit. PWG included in this? I haven't found anything to do with them.


----------



## erikstans07

Just watched Davey Richards vs. Harry Smith from WrestleReunion. That match was insanely good. I didn't want it to end. Why isn't Harry working for ROH? They could really use him.


----------



## Rah

He always seemed technically sound but exceedingly bland. I'm not familiar with the majority of his indy run, but I'm not going to beat myself up about that. He gave me no reason to give a damn while he was shoved down my throat on WWE TV.

Not like I watch RoH, either, but (going by my current impression of him) that'd be the reason why I wouldn't want him on my TV. Just another Lance Storm knock-off.*


*(somewhat exaggerated comment)


----------



## erikstans07

His style is totally different from what you saw him do in the WWE. He and Davey put on a clinic and I would encourage anyone to watch their match. Give it a chance and you may enjoy it.


----------



## Caponex75

Got a link to it?


----------



## Cactus

I personally wouldn't say the Smith/Richards match wasn't anything too special. It's relatively short for Davey Richards match and it suffers from the flaws you've come to expect out of any Richards match, but it's still pretty fun and has a really cool ending. Not a MOTYC but still worth the watch if you can find it. ****1/2*


----------



## erikstans07

You can download the torrent of the whole show, which is a very fun show main evented by Generico/Great Sasuke vs. The Young Bucks. That's how I got it.


----------



## Cactus

*Hiroshi Tanahashi, Hirooki Goto, Tetsuya Naito & Tama Tonga vs Kazuchika Okada, Shinsuke Nakamura, YOSHI-HASHI & Tomohiro Ishii - NJPW 2012/05/27*
_The only MOTYC that has Tomohiro Ishii, YOSHI-HASHI & Tama fuckin' Tonga in it, I can guarantee you that. Two thirds of this weren't anything too great (aside from the stuff with Tanahashi and Naito), but the finishing stretch was where the match really shined. Think of your typical NJPW main event multi-man tag match just going that extra level. Really looking forward to Tanahashi/Okada II now. _
*Rating: *****


----------



## MF83

Same rating, disagree about the Ishii slight.  The sort of CHAOS (pun absolutely intended) that only New Japan tries pulling off, and only rarely does it work as well as this did.


----------



## Rock316AE

WWE MOTY, Top 3 in no order:

Rock/Cena WM28
Taker/HBK/HHH WM28
Lesnar/Cena ER

****1/2 for all 3.

Second tier:
Sheamus/Bryan ER
Orton/Sheamus/Jericho/Del Rio OTL
Bryan/Punk OTL


----------



## topper1

No way was Rock vs Cena better then Bryan vs Punk. Rock vs Cena didn't even have an awesome crowd to make up for its short comings.


----------



## TelkEvolon

Rock/Cena was agiant let down, ZERO tension or agression or anything that should of made this match great, just felt like another match, not one that was over a year in the making.

Lame.

Sasaki/Callihan is the match I watched afterwards and that brought the hate WAAAAAAY more than Rock/Cena did. Very underwhelming.


----------



## Rock316AE

Rock/Cena had amazing atmosphere, rare big time fight feel, 80k with a huge roar for the opening bell, says it all. The match was an iconic WM main event, exactly what it needs to be, full of drama, plenty of believable nearfalls, memorable spots, typical awesome Rock selling that made Cena look like a million bucks and a perfect finish with one of the biggest pops of all time. Awesome spectacle, perfect payoff for a year of promotion. Overall match? MOTY along with Taker/HBK/HHH and Lesnar/Cena.


----------



## Goku

Rock/Cena was indeed a let down, and I wanted that match to work out so badly.

^ Nah, it was crap.


----------



## Yeah1993

Rock/Cena was OK, just went too long. Especially for a guy like the Rock who hadn't had a match like that in so long. Should have shaven off at least 15 minutes.









Definitely better than HHH/Taker, though. 8*D


----------



## THANOS

Rock316AE said:


> WWE MOTY, Top 3 in no order:
> 
> Rock/Cena WM28
> Taker/HBK/HHH WM28
> Lesnar/Cena ER
> 
> ****1/2 for all 3.
> 
> Second tier:
> Sheamus/Bryan ER
> Orton/Sheamus/Jericho/Del Rio OTL
> Bryan/Punk OTL


HAHAHAHAHA :lmao

Thanks for the laugh and the credibility shot you gave yourself! I can agree with Taker/HHH and Lesnar/Cena being top matches, but placing Sheamus/Bryan and Punk/Bryan on the second tier is freakin LOL cringeworthy even for you!


----------



## Goku

Sheamus/Bryan was better than Punk/Bryan imo, quite comfortably too.


----------



## funnyfaces1

Punk and Bryan just had another fantastic match with each other on RAW.


----------



## topper1

Rock316AE said:


> Rock/Cena had amazing atmosphere, rare big time fight feel, 80k with a huge roar for the opening bell, says it all.


Huge roar? Maybe I should watch it again but it seemed the crowd sucked for every match at WM 28 besides maybe the HIAC.


----------



## FITZ

I was at Wrestlemania and if the crowd came across as quiet for Rock/Cena that is all WWE's fault. The stadium exploded when the Rock one and I was informed from my brother that he had to hold back from hugging me right after the Rock one.


----------



## Cactus

THANOS said:


> HAHAHAHAHA :lmao
> 
> Thanks for the laugh and the credibility shot you gave yourself! I can agree with Taker/HHH and Lesnar/Cena being top matches, but placing Sheamus/Bryan and Punk/Bryan on the second tier is freakin LOL cringeworthy even for you!


Christ. This is the best section of this website so please don't ruin it. I've always thought that as long as you back up your opinion on _why_ you liked something, then you'll never be laughed upon. What makes this section so great is that we all enjoy different things and we can discuss it in a mature manner. Rock316AE is a big fan of the 'WWE Main Event' style of working, so it's no surprise he likes Rock/Cena over Bryan/Punk (but he still said it was in the top 6 matches of the year, so he isn't exactly shitting on it). Let's put it this way, I can't stand Dragon Gate or the current indy style, but you don't see me shitting on someone's opinion whenever someone rates a DG Multi-man or Davey Richards match ****3/4. You just got to keep in mind people like different things.


----------



## Kid Kablam

funnyfaces1 said:


> Punk and Bryan just had another fantastic match with each other on RAW.


I felt they were just a little off tonight. Not something I could put my finger on, but just not as snappy. Still, a great TV match that should have been in the ME slot.


----------



## THANOS

Cactus said:


> Christ. This is the best section of this website so please don't ruin it. I've always thought that as long as you back up your opinion on _why_ you liked something, then you'll never be laughed upon. What makes this section so great is that we all enjoy different things and we can discuss it in a mature manner. Rock316AE is a big fan of the 'WWE Main Event' style of working, so it's no surprise he likes Rock/Cena over Bryan/Punk (but he still said it was in the top 6 matches of the year, so he isn't exactly shitting on it). Let's put it this way, I can't stand Dragon Gate or the current indy style, but you don't see me shitting on someone's opinion whenever someone rates a DG Multi-man or Davey Richards match ****3/4. You just got to keep in mind people like different things.


Have you seen ROCK316AE actually discuss those Bryan matches? Because if you ever read what he said about them you'd be puzzled to why he even placed them in his rankings. The only logical explanation is that they are there by default. If it was anyone else but ROCK316AE or his other cronies I wouldn't write that, but because it's him and knowing what he ALREADY said about those matches before, I feel comfortable laughing at him.


----------



## Rah

I don't see the issue here.

The thread isn't best "worked" or best "wrestled" match but _match_ of the year. We all have our differing styles and opinions of what makes a match great, and this is just an extreme form of it. 

While some can find greatness in the Infinity 250 tag (which I found abysmally poor) or CIMA/PAC from #252, others cannot stand the style in any way shape or form and will rate such a match poorly. Replace "flippy stuff done for shits and giggles" with meaning, importance and prestige and then you have what I believe Rock316AE is looking for in a match. Does it describe something technically sound? No, but to him that isn't of utmost importance.

Technical prowess still means something to him, as he does have Punk/Bryan on his list and included Sheamus/Bryan (which I think people are exceedingly over-exaggerating - considering Sheamus was stiffer than my erection for the OtL WWE Title match) so don't get him wrong. He just wants something to tug at his chords and to make the wait for it worth it.

Like I opened with, this isn't a "best wrestled match of the year" thread, so don't treat it like one. This isn't an objective study but a subjective experience. It's so much more than just the moves. Because of that what we find great might be boring or pointless to another - and vice versa. Thankfully it wasn't that bad a match for its crappiness to be mitigated by over-riding factors, so I'm not against his choice for MotY. I'd have possibly gone for HHH/Taker as number one if we're to take into account what he wishes from a match, but the other side of the hate-wave would have responded to him in like manner.

From a more personal example I rated two 5-star matches last year (Punk/Cena and the ME at PWG SteenWolf), this year my highest rated match is barely scraping a 4.5. Perhaps I'm a bit more critical than I was last year, but nothing had the emotional pull or significance behind itself (perhaps this could be true of Casas/Panther, but I'm not too great a lucha-head for such a thing) to compete on those levels. I've seen some phenomenal _wrestling_, but that's where it stopped. That isn't to say nothing tugged at my emotions or fanboyism, but nothing was on that level, either.

Rock316A not only differs from everyone else but he explains why he differs. I'd say that's a valuable commodity, considering we don't want this section to become too filled with like-minded opinion. We might as well not even post, then, as we'd have no reason to discuss. 



THANOS said:


> *HAHAHAHAHA :lmao
> 
> Thanks for the laugh and the credibility shot you gave yourself!* I can agree with Taker/HHH and Lesnar/Cena being top matches, but placing Sheamus/Bryan and Punk/Bryan on the second tier is freakin LOL cringeworthy even for you!


Don't forget to claim your douchebag prize on the way out.



Cactus said:


> Christ. This is the best section of this website so please don't ruin it. I've always thought that as long as you back up your opinion on _why_ you liked something, then you'll never be laughed upon. What makes this section so great is that we all enjoy different things and we can discuss it in a mature manner. Rock316AE is a big fan of the 'WWE Main Event' style of working, so it's no surprise he likes Rock/Cena over Bryan/Punk (but he still said it was in the top 6 matches of the year, so he isn't exactly shitting on it). Let's put it this way, I can't stand Dragon Gate or the current indy style, but you don't see me shitting on someone's opinion whenever someone rates a DG Multi-man or Davey Richards match ****3/4. You just got to keep in mind people like different things.


This is why I don't like you. Whenever I attempt to post something, you've got my opinion nailed and condensed better than I could have put it. Right down to even the Dragon Gate and (subtly veiled) Davey Richards reference.


----------



## THANOS

Rah said:


> Don't forget to claim your douchebag prize on the way out. There isn't a need to return.


Your calling me a douchebag and vouching for ROCK316AE, the biggest troll on the forum? One who shits on great wrestlers every time he gets the chance, and tries to back up his points with ratings and buyrates arguments, yet always "conveniently" leaves out any information that presents his favourites in a bad light. Yeah that's smart


----------



## Rah

THANOS said:


> Your calling me a douchebag and vouching for ROCK316AE, the biggest troll on the forum? One who shits on great wrestlers every time he gets the chance, and tries to back up his points with ratings and buyrates arguments, yet always "conveniently" leaves out any information that presents his favourites in a bad light. Yeah that's smart


I "vouched" for ROCK316AE simply because he made a valid point. If that was intended to troll then he misses the point of trolling, but I'm 95% sure that wasn't his intention.

While his name does look familiar I'm not going to look down on someone because of their posting history or because of how other people see them. IF he is what you say he is, then I'm proud of him for making a decent, sensical post in a section that's quite daunting to new-guys (from other sections, especially those that lack a knowledge pool deeper than TNA/WWE) and not make light of some truly terrible match like Alicia Fox/Melina. 

I only saw your reply to Cactus now, perhaps quoting those posts Rock316AE made would shed some light on to your side of this debate.



Taking this back onto a more positive road:

* John Cena Vs Brock Lesnar (WWE Extreme Rules) 4.25+
* CM Punk Vs Daniel Bryan (WWE Over The Limit) 4.25
* Daniel Bryan Vs Sheamus (WWE Extreme Rules) 4+
* CM Punk Vs Chris Jericho (WWE Extreme Rules) 4


----------



## THANOS

Rah said:


> Taking this back onto a more positive road:
> 
> * John Cena Vs Brock Lesnar (WWE Extreme Rules) 4.25+
> * CM Punk Vs Daniel Bryan (WWE Over The Limit) 4.25
> * Daniel Bryan Vs Sheamus (WWE Extreme Rules) 4+
> * CM Punk Vs Chris Jericho (WWE Extreme Rules) 4


Those ratings I agree with and would probably place HHH/Taker anywhere between 3.75 and 4.25.


----------



## Cactus

THANOS said:


> Your calling me a douchebag and vouching for ROCK316AE, the biggest troll on the forum? One who shits on great wrestlers every time he gets the chance, and tries to back up his points with ratings and buyrates arguments, yet always "conveniently" leaves out any information that presents his favourites in a bad light. Yeah that's smart


justbringitbitch and imnotastar are trolls. Rock316AE seems to legitimately fells the way he does about these things and makes an effort to back his claims up, even if I disagree with them most of the time (hell I call him out on a lot of the stuff he says). Just because you strongly disagree with someone's opinion doesn't make them a troll.


----------



## Rah

I'm beginning to doubt more and more whether I saw HHH/Taker, anymore. Especially with these comments and ratings of late...


----------



## THANOS

Cactus said:


> justbringitbitch and imnotastar are trolls. Rock316AE seems to legitimately fells the way he does about these things and makes an effort to back his claims up, even if I disagree with them most of the time (hell I call him out on a lot of the stuff he says). Just because you strongly disagree with someone's opinion doesn't make them a troll.


Nope but referring to any wrestler, especially great one's, *that are over with the crowd* and either on the verge of or already maineventing as "indy jobber vanilla midget hacks *that will never get over* and are midcarders" is trolling, and he constantly refers to them as such every time he invades a thread about them, and whenever anyone legitimately argues his point he never responds to it. The dude is a troll plain and simple because he baits everyone in threads that he's not wanted in just to get a reaction. Just because he's a more calculating troll doesn't mean he's not a troll.




Rah said:


> I'm beginning to doubt more and more whether I saw HHH/Taker, anymore. Especially with these comments and ratings of late...


I gave it this rating purely because of the tension and drama throughout the match. The actual wrestling itself wasn't innovative or great, but the match won me over solely on the storytelling.


----------



## MF83

KUSHIDA vs Devitt upwards of four stars as well


----------



## Chismo

THANOS said:


> HAHAHAHAHA :lmao
> 
> Thanks for the laugh and the credibility shot you gave yourself! I can agree with Taker/HHH and Lesnar/Cena being top matches, but placing Sheamus/Bryan and Punk/Bryan on the second tier is freakin LOL cringeworthy even for you!


You're a fucking disgrace for this thread. And people like you. If anyone else posted something similar, no one would say a word. But hey, it's Rock316AE, so let's make bananas!


----------



## seabs

Cactus said:


> *Hiroshi Tanahashi, Hirooki Goto, Tetsuya Naito & Tama Tonga vs Kazuchika Okada, Shinsuke Nakamura, YOSHI-HASHI & Tomohiro Ishii - NJPW 2012/05/27*
> _The only MOTYC that has Tomohiro Ishii, YOSHI-HASHI & Tama fuckin' Tonga in it, I can guarantee you that. Two thirds of this weren't anything too great (aside from the stuff with Tanahashi and Naito), but the finishing stretch was where the match really shined. Think of your typical NJPW main event multi-man tag match just going that extra level. Really looking forward to Tanahashi/Okada II now. _
> *Rating: *****


*Ishii and Tonga are really good. Ishii had a MOTYC with Nagata last year btw too.

Rock/Cena was in no way a MOTYC either. Control segments in the middle looked horrible and dragged really badly. Chemistry didn't seem to be there. Went longer than it needed to. Wasn't a fan of the final 5 minutes either with the generic "I kick out of your finisher and return the favour" that nearly every major WWE match ends up being these days. Wouldn't say the crowd was bad for it but because of the open arena it didn't come across very well at all on TV. They seemed really quiet while they were working holds in the middle though.*


----------



## EmbassyForever

Monday Night RAW 2012.05.28:

- Daniel Bryan vs. CM Punk - ***3/4 
Another great match.


----------



## Yeah1993

Seabs said:


> *Ishii and Tonga are really good. Ishii had a MOTYC with Nagata last year btw too.
> 
> Rock/Cena was in no way a MOTYC either. Control segments in the middle looked horrible and dragged really badly. Chemistry didn't seem to be there. Went longer than it needed to. Wasn't a fan of the final 5 minutes either with the generic "I kick out of your finisher and return the favour" that nearly every major WWE match ends up being these days. Wouldn't say the crowd was bad for it but because of the open arena it didn't come across very well at all on TV. They seemed really quiet while they were working holds in the middle though.*


worst things about it might have been the submissions. Those two should like......never work a hold.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

THANOS said:


> I gave it this rating purely because of the tension and drama throughout the match. The actual wrestling itself wasn't innovative or great, but the match won me over solely on the storytelling.


That seems to be the story for the match, and with that story I've seen people rate it anywhere from ***3/4-****3/4. I personally give it **** right now, and I don't see myself ever going up on it.

As far as Rock316AE goes, when it comes to Rock or Punk, I already know what he's going to say and have beyond cared for his opinion on those two guys. His bias clouds his thought and reasoning on them and there's no point anymore in even engaging in a discussion with him on them or anything they do. I haven't seen him be quite as harsh on Bryan as Punk, but it's there and maybe I'm just not looking hard enough. 

TBH I'm surprised he even put it Punk/Bryan OTL on "second tier".

However, outside of those 2-3 wrestlers, I think he's generally a good poster that offers good insight.


----------



## jawbreaker

I'd been smoking a vaporizer for four hours and I still couldn't enjoy Rock/Cena. I remember just getting angry at how bad it was. Rewatched it sober and yeah it wasn't good.


----------



## Zatiel

Maybe it's good that I only watched Cena/Rock once. I thought it was fine. Not a MOTY, not MOTN, but then I thought Punk/Jericho was the best on the show.

The opening was hot, and the callbacks to Hogan/Rock were fun. They wound up letting Rock get over on Cena more than I expected and both guys played their characters well until Rock wore out. I forgave the Bearhug spot since I imagined Rock needed the rest, though I can imagine it breaking things for others. I didn't mind them working the STF/Sharpshooter stuff at all, and actively liked how close Rock looked to losing around there. They had several good counters, like Cena refusing to take the People's Elbow early and winding up going for the Five Knuckle Shuffle. I also agree with Seabs that the attempted finisher-fest at the end was standard procedure, but it's standard procedure because main eventers doing it is fun, especially for the first time between two stars as big as these. Not even on my favorite matches of the year list, but I think some folks are being a little too hard on it.


----------



## Goku

The match was fine. Cannot think of talking about it as a MOTYC tho. It should've been 20 mins max.


----------



## EmbassyForever

erikstans07 said:


> Just watched Davey Richards vs. Harry Smith from WrestleReunion. That match was insanely good. I didn't want it to end. Why isn't Harry working for ROH? They could really use him.


Yeah, great match. But hell, the voice of the color commentary was really annoying. "Here's the MMA-style" lol the pissed me off


----------



## erikstans07

He was a little annoying. Though, I liked the part where Excalibur called the Sharpshooter the Scorpion Deathlock and he said "there's a member of the Hart family in the ring and you call it the Scorpion Deathlock?!"


----------



## Rah

*With apologies to EmbassyForever*

*Davey Richards Vs Michael Elgin*

Well, I'm glad the hatred for Davey has subsided and people can love him and his matches for the very reason they castigated them all but a few months ago. While the selling was somewhat there (delayed or nonsensically added, at times, with regards to Davey) it still had a lot of "WTF ARE YOU DOING?!" moments that detracted from the match so much so I almost rage-quitted twice. Can this propensity for Davey/So-And-So to breakout shin-strikes and knee combos to the face please just stop. It's completely unbelievable and detracts from the "realness" of the move that so many other wrestlers use in getting over their viciousness.

I also _loved_ how Elgin attacked the concept of being the big-man Davey couldn't slay at the beginning of the match. It's not "firing up" (to whichever commentator said that), it's no-selling bullshit. Michael, can you please watch the matches of those infinitely more talented than you and note how they do it? At least add in a "shake off" of the damage inflicted against you, ffs. I'm actually glad only those in the know watch these matches because it would kill the believability of wrestling completely otherwise. 

I'm not going to lie, though, I did like a good part of this match, too. Elgin delivered some nice moves and Davey's Belly-To-Back Suplex into Ankle Lock was a nice transition scene (and a lot more believable than the Superplex into Falcon Arrow people seemingly hate on). It had some good parts, too, and it did highlight what Davey (and Elgin) seemingly does very well - execute moves flawlessly. I think my thumb-sucking in trying to convey what I liked is becoming obvious here, I apologise, my feelings over the match are very much clouded by the negatives.

There just isn't enough goodness to justify a rating from me that lies congruent to (what seems to be) everyone else's opinion. Technically sound but lacking that extra dimension of decent psychology and believability (as well as being just another cookie-cutter RoH/Davey main event) I need in giving this a good rating. To borrow an analogy from 411mania, what this match is, then, is one that wholly epitomises the majority of the Indy scene today, and why wrestlers are shunted into and locked-up in FCW for so long after signing with WWE. There's no denying that they all know how to wrestle (and even wrestle well), but very few know how to just damn-well _work_.

*Rating:* 3.75

*El Generico Vs Kevin Steen (SitS Night One)*
Now this was better. 

It took me a bit of time to get into it, but from, at least, halfway I was marking as I normally would for a match between these two. While it wasn't nearly as good as their previous encounters it still effectively did what it set out to do (not only in match quality but in turning Jacobs, too). No major gripes, apart from a flatter finish than I'd have hoped (considering I'm not going to follow the turn of events after this) but it kept Generico from outright losing and I'm not going to complain about that.

*Rating:* 4+


----------



## jawbreaker

man I mostly agree with you but that first sentence is some bullshit.

I'm hungry so here's a food metaphor. I like hamburgers. I like them seasoned and flavored lots of different ways, but there are some ways I don't like. Sometimes I like cheese on them, sometimes I don't. I love onions on my hamburgers. A mediocre burger can be elevated to the level of a very good burger if it has onions on it. I don't like mayonnaise on my burgers. I'll eat it in combination with other flavors, but it has to be done very well for me to enjoy it, and more often than not I'll wish it wasn't there.

The hamburger that was Davey/Eddie at Final Battle was drowned in mayonnaise and had nothing else there to make me want to eat it. The hamburger that was Richards/Elgin had a little too much mayonnaise for my taste, but it also had a nice amount of jalapeños, a flavor I love in moderation and is hard to find done well, and it brought the fucking onions. The onions in that burger saved it for me. Too much mayo, but I loved it because of the onions, and it made me think for a moment that Ring of Burgers could still bring out a quality burger despite the new management, even when the cooks weren't guys I usually liked. That doesn't mean I like mayonnaise, but I still enjoyed that one burger that had mayonnaise on it.

I don't know if that made any sense but it was a lot of fun to write and I figure you'll get it because we liked pretty much the same things about the match.

Going to review all matches in burger metaphors now. I hope any FJM fans on here are proud of me.


----------



## MF83

Goto vs Ishii - **** and I suspect a lot of you would view it even higher. Here is a MOTYC featuring Tomohiro Ishii, Cactus.


----------



## antoniomare007

Ishii has 1 MOTYC a year so I can totally believe that.


----------



## Rah

jawbreaker said:


> *hunger pang inducing levels of burger awesome*


Perhaps I was being too critical or perhaps your burger metaphor just made me hungry enough to want to rewatch it.

I really and totally get what you're saying, and I think it makes a lot more sense to me than most of the descriptions from others of the match as damn-near perfect. It was those people I was going for with that sentence. I can (sort of) understand the 4.25 or so ratings but having this as anything more is, imo, ludicrous (5-stars?). 

Just some more mayo I forgot to add:
* *Selling fear*: selling isn't limited to after the move, but it plays an important precursor role, too. One cannot be grabbed into a fireman carry (where the opponent is setting up a devastating move) and lackadaisically let go of any facial expression Johnny Ace style. I noticed Punk did it in the OtL match, and Davey did it a few times in this. Elgin to a lesser extent, though.
* *Contrived spots*: If Elgin wasn't idiotically ignoring his height advantage on the ankle lock submissions (which killed any suspense for me, as he could have merely extended his gargantuan leg and made the rope-break at any point), he was the one initiating the momentum for them. I realise wrestling is a two-way street, but the choreography needs to be perfect. You cannot have someone that is Elgin's size randomly flipping over without exertion from Davey because the spot calls for an ankle lock. Make it believable, ffs. It wasn't simply limited to these moments (and I realise a lot of wrestling strays down this path, but it is of no excuse) but these do stand out as more WHY?! than the others.
* *Random-ass Selling*: I'm not sure how it's possible to ignore a barrage of offence only to sell a kick-out pin, but Davey sure as nuts did it. You can argue it was exhaustion that had him fall on his face and lie there motionless long enough for Elgin to get to his feet, but that plays incongruent to everything else, not only in the match but in his other matches, as well. Davey is truly a conditioned machine and doing so that early on in the match doesn't compute with his track-record (unless he's been eating antoniomare007's burgers) or for his energy levels in the rest of the match. I can understand _why_ he did it, I just don't think he smartly did it. If he was going to lie there (out of frustration) at least add that emotion in to the mix, or if he was trying to sell exhaustion (however unlikely it was) make it believable and recoil into a corner showing some sign of life, at least. If he had done so, and added a calculating look (looking for his next plan of offence) I'd have much more enjoyed it. It wouldn't hurt my rating of the match if he didn't, but such little nuances are what I truly enjoy in wrestling - just going that extra mile. Just how I'd have liked a little touch to the selling of his back. An arm gesture (which he kept going at times) that had more continuity would have really made me applaud his work. Such little details, though, are understandably left to those on the upper echelons of talent so they're not a _must-do_ but they are a must-do to have me think this match to be damn-well great/perfect.

I left only one or two examples in each for fear of a much too lengthy paragraph (I have studies to finish off, so perhaps my loathing for final exams are vicariously felt through some of the matches I've been watching the past two days) but I do hope my point is made. I can understand most people finding these points contrived, but it is these "contrived" and "asinine" things that prevent me from giving matches the full toot. If I'm too randomly critical, then so be it. I haven't had a match over 4.25 stars, yet (just varying differences in the rating bracket), so maybe I am.

Either way, I just don't understand how this match can be any amounts greater than Brock/Cena (of which I wasn't a fan, but I can see the sheer greatness in it, hence my rating) or Punk/Bryan. The latter being more obvious, considering they somewhat abandoned the E's style for a more technical, indy-circuit one. Sure, it didn't have the big-time impact RoH moves that Davey/Elgin did (for the HELL YEAH factor) but it did everything else better, imo. Just for a marker, I have that on the lower end of my 4.25 rating spectrum.

I see I re-gave Bryan/Punk's other TV-matches the same rating as Elgin/Davey. I'd love to say I'll rewatch this, but I've said that of many matches before I left for my studies. Many matches I know will still get a better rating than this. So, if I can get through those and the long list of matches I've missed then maybe, _maybe_ I'll rewatch this.

Perhaps, like I said, I was too hard on this (due to displaced frustration) but I don't feel happy enough to give this anything more than the same rating I gave to Steen/Generico (4+).


----------



## Legend

jawbreaker's metaphors make me hungry.


----------



## Bubz

Yeah. Could do with a Burger now. STARVING AS FUCK! Why am I typing that on a wrestling forum? Like any of you care for my hunger .

Anyway, I agree with Rah about the faults with the Davey/Elgin match, but like jawbreaker said, it had enough stuff that was just balls awesome for me to enjoy the hell out of it. By no means a 5 star match or any higher than 4 1/4 imo, but definitely in the upper ranks of US matches this year, and in the upper ranks of ROH matches in like, two years.


----------



## Certified G

Lol I think I might be the only one the who rates Elgin/Richards 5 stars. Granted I seem to enjoy matches a whole different way than most of you, and the faults that you see in the match I either don't care for or enjoy. (no-selling for example)


----------



## Kid Kablam

Rah said:


> Perhaps I was being too critical or perhaps your burger metaphor just made me hungry enough to want to rewatch it.
> 
> I really and totally get what you're saying, and I think it makes a lot more sense to me than most of the descriptions from others of the match as damn-near perfect. It was those people I was going for with that sentence. I can (sort of) understand the 4.25 or so ratings but having this as anything more is, imo, ludicrous (5-stars?).
> 
> Just some more mayo I forgot to add:
> * *Selling fear*: selling isn't limited to after the move, but it plays an important precursor role, too. One cannot be grabbed into a fireman carry (where the opponent is setting up a devastating move) and lackadaisically let go of any facial expression Johnny Ace style. I noticed Punk did it in the OtL match, and Davey did it a few times in this. Elgin to a lesser extent, though.
> * *Contrived spots*: If Elgin wasn't idiotically ignoring his height advantage on the ankle lock submissions (which killed any suspense for me, as he could have merely extended his gargantuan leg and made the rope-break at any point), he was the one initiating the momentum for them. I realise wrestling is a two-way street, but the choreography needs to be perfect. You cannot have someone that is Elgin's size randomly flipping over without exertion from Davey because the spot calls for an ankle lock. Make it believable, ffs. It wasn't simply limited to these moments (and I realise a lot of wrestling strays down this path, but it is of no excuse) but these do stand out as more WHY?! than the others.
> * *Random-ass Selling*: I'm not sure how it's possible to ignore a barrage of offence only to sell a kick-out pin, but Davey sure as nuts did it. You can argue it was exhaustion that had him fall on his face and lie there motionless long enough for Elgin to get to his feet, but that plays incongruent to everything else, not only in the match but in his other matches, as well. Davey is truly a conditioned machine and doing so that early on in the match doesn't compute with his track-record (unless he's been eating antoniomare007's burgers) or for his energy levels in the rest of the match. I can understand _why_ he did it, I just don't think he smartly did it. If he was going to lie there (out of frustration) at least add that emotion in to the mix, or if he was trying to sell exhaustion (however unlikely it was) make it believable and recoil into a corner showing some sign of life, at least. If he had done so, and added a calculating look (looking for his next plan of offence) I'd have much more enjoyed it. It wouldn't hurt my rating of the match if he didn't, but such little nuances are what I truly enjoy in wrestling - just going that extra mile. Just how I'd have liked a little touch to the selling of his back. An arm gesture (which he kept going at times) that had more continuity would have really made me applaud his work. Such little details, though, are understandably left to those on the upper echelons of talent so they're not a _must-do_ but they are a must-do to have me think this match to be damn-well great/perfect.
> 
> I left only one or two examples in each for fear of a much too lengthy paragraph (I have studies to finish off, so perhaps my loathing for final exams are vicariously felt through some of the matches I've been watching the past two days) but I do hope my point is made. I can understand most people finding these points contrived, but it is these "contrived" and "asinine" things that prevent me from giving matches the full toot. If I'm too randomly critical, then so be it. I haven't had a match over 4.25 stars, yet (just varying differences in the rating bracket), so maybe I am.
> 
> Either way, I just don't understand how this match can be any amounts greater than Brock/Cena (of which I wasn't a fan, but I can see the sheer greatness in it, hence my rating) or Punk/Bryan. The latter being more obvious, considering they somewhat abandoned the E's style for a more technical, indy-circuit one. Sure, it didn't have the big-time impact RoH moves that Davey/Elgin did (for the HELL YEAH factor) but it did everything else better, imo. Just for a marker, I have that on the lower end of my 4.25 rating spectrum.
> 
> I see I re-gave Bryan/Punk's other TV-matches the same rating as Elgin/Davey. I'd love to say I'll rewatch this, but I've said that of many matches before I left for my studies. Many matches I know will still get a better rating than this. So, if I can get through those and the long list of matches I've missed then maybe, _maybe_ I'll rewatch this.
> 
> Perhaps, like I said, I was too hard on this (due to displaced frustration) but I don't feel happy enough to give this anything more than the same rating I gave to Steen/Generico (4+).


2 Things

A) I do appreciate that you don't just throw snowflakes at matches without logic, or just based on how much of a buzz you get from them. I think there's been a star rating inflation with matches like Taker/HHH getting 4.75-5 stars simply because they go a certain amount of time, and incorporating a base line of brutality. Sometimes it seems like a match going 20+ minutes gets and automatic 3.5 stars, and containing a certain number of spots automatically bumps it up to 4. So I do appreciate your method, even if I don't agree with all of it.

B) Your point of selling the fear is valid, but I think you might be expecting a bit much. I like to point to the Danielson/KENTA match for this. Danielson (yes I'm using his old name) was injured, and still could do a number of moves with his legit injured shoulder. I know that selling is based on what the audience expects, and therefore selling to communicate to the audience is more important than "realism", but I think there's a lot of leeway in here. You brought up Punk not selling on getting Bryan in the fireman's carry (at least I believe that's what you were referencing)but I think Punk did a lot of selling the ribs throughout, so I was ok with it. He was slower on climbing the turn buckles etc. Same with Bryan and selling the leg. He brings it out at certain points to remind the audience that he does actually have a leg thing, and that he can only overcome it with an adrenaline burst (like he gets near the end of the match). A lot of people said that Bryan wasn't selling the leg properly, but sometimes I wonder if they were expecting Bryan to not be able to use the leg at all.


----------



## Rah

I'll get to your point tomorrow, if you'd be so lenient. I came to post my DDT4 review and this post before retiring for bed (so I'm not ignoring your point, I just never made time for it).

On quick read, though (and itt might simply be my fatigue speaking now), I think our difference lies not in an actual _difference_, per se, but a misunderstanding of what I meant which is perhaps a fault of my own wording in that post.



The Corre said:


> Lol I think I might be the only one the who rates Elgin/Richards 5 stars. Granted I seem to enjoy matches a whole different way than most of you, and the faults that you see in the match I either don't care for or enjoy. (no-selling for example)


Unless you're Dave Meltzer and, also, EmbassyForever (to name but a few) you're not the only one. 

Deliberated a bit more in my head about it, and I think I'll change my rating of it to a 4, but I'm not too sure I'm entirely happy with that considering I did want to stop watching it _twice_.

Other ratings (in possible order):
*Super Smash Brothers Vs Future Shock*
PWG DDT4 2012
*Rating:* 4+

*Kevin Steen Vs Davey Richards*
Border Wars
*Rating:* 4+ (A much better match by Davey, imo.)

*Super Smash Brothers Vs The Young Bucks*
PWG DDT4 2012
*Rating:* 4​


----------



## Last Chancery

Does anybody rate matches by how much they enjoy them anymore? Putting all these rules to wrestling really kills the fun of it, at least for me. "You MUST sell this, you MUST hold this facial expression, you CAN'T do this..."

If a facial expression ruins an entire match for you, man, I don't even know anymore. It's like the difference between going to movies because you want to see the movie, and going to movies because you're a critic. Difference is the former enjoys what he's watching while the latter doesn't and is doing it for the paycheck. In my opinion, of course. I just think nitpicking every minute detail of every minute of a match kills it. Sometimes it's just more fun to sit back and enjoy the ride.


----------



## Yeah1993

Selling affects HUGELY how much I _enjoy_ a match, though. If one guys bombs another, and the guy getting bombed keeps getting up and yelling like a fucking moron, I won't _enjoy_ the match. Or at least that part of it. He just got wiped out and should stay the fuck down. Some are entertained by that five million mile an hour style match where both guys just squeeze in as many moves as they can. I'm not. Some people aren't taken out of a match when there's people no-selling galore. I am.

I can't speak for everyone, but I certainly don't do anything more than "sit back and enjoy the ride". I can be analytical, but I'm not looking at it from any other perspective other than my own enjoyment. I'll talk about the selling because I adore it when a guy sells well- I literally enjoy that. 

Facials aren't match-ruiners for me, but if I'm watching Keiji Mutoh in a submission hold and he's just staring into space not even trying to get the move over........well fuck him. That still fits into the 'no sell' category more than anything.

If there's a match with two guys, I'll use Cena and Henry. Let's say I enjoyed this match, but it could have been better to me. Cena ate a beating from Henry, and Cena ate it really well. His facials looked like he was in pain, and he bumped well, etc. By that point I'm enjoying the match. THEN, Cena bursts up out of nowhere, no sells everything and pins Henry lightning fast. I'd say "fuck that" because there's no way I'd _enjoy_ it. I wouldn't say "Cena should have built his comeback gradually" because I'm critiquing, I would say "Cena should have built his comeback gradually" because I would enjoy the match more if he did. They aren't rules and I'm not sitting with a note pad writing down what somebody did wrong. I'm sure you look at some wrestling matches and think "_insert thing here_ would have made the match a lot better." Well _insert thing here_ for me is often good selling. Or selling, period.

Note: I wasn't implying no selling was a Cena thing. I was, however, implying that staring into space is a Mutoh thing. Seriously, Keiji.....react.


----------



## KingKicks

Last Chancery said:


> Does anybody rate matches by how much they enjoy them anymore? Putting all these rules to wrestling really kills the fun of it, at least for me. "You MUST sell this, you MUST hold this facial expression, you CAN'T do this..."
> 
> If a facial expression ruins an entire match for you, man, I don't even know anymore. It's like the difference between going to movies because you want to see the movie, and going to movies because you're a critic. Difference is the former enjoys what he's watching while the latter doesn't and is doing it for the paycheck. In my opinion, of course. I just think nitpicking every minute detail of every minute of a match kills it. Sometimes it's just more fun to sit back and enjoy the ride.


I agree for the most part with this as I rate simply by how much I enjoy a match however like Yeah1993, selling does have an impact on how much I enjoy a match.


----------



## smitlick

Last Chancery said:


> Does anybody rate matches by how much they enjoy them anymore? Putting all these rules to wrestling really kills the fun of it, at least for me. "You MUST sell this, you MUST hold this facial expression, you CAN'T do this..."
> 
> If a facial expression ruins an entire match for you, man, I don't even know anymore. It's like the difference between going to movies because you want to see the movie, and going to movies because you're a critic. Difference is the former enjoys what he's watching while the latter doesn't and is doing it for the paycheck. In my opinion, of course. I just think nitpicking every minute detail of every minute of a match kills it. Sometimes it's just more fun to sit back and enjoy the ride.


Usually if my rating is just based on enjoyment i mention it - Eg the PWG BOLA Tag i gave a ***** of enjoyment to.


----------



## Goku

Last Chancery said:


> It's like the difference between going to movies because you want to see the movie, and going to movies because you're a critic. Difference is the former enjoys what he's watching while the latter doesn't and is doing it for the paycheck.


This is completely hilarious and wrong. The rest of your post is too, kind of, but this stands out.


----------



## Emperor DC

Bryan/Punk, if you look at it, at OTL was one of the best WWE matches in years because of selling, not just the work itself. Without that sort of understanding from Punk, the match would have been nowhere near as good, he never forgot about it like seems the norm these days. Same with Jericho. They're two of the best at understanding how to construct a match.


----------



## dk4life

PWG - DDT4 2012 - Future Shock (Adam Cole & Kyle O'Reilly) vs. Super Smash Bros. (Player Uno & Stupefied)
_God I love the Super Smash Bros. I don't think Future Shock should have been broken up and feuding, well they aren't PWG, but you know what I mean, there was a few sloppy moments in the final 10 minutes, but the finish was awesome, pretty damn good match_ ******


----------



## jawbreaker

Yeah1993 said:


> Selling affects HUGELY how much I _enjoy_ a match, though. If one guys bombs another, and the guy getting bombed keeps getting up and yelling like a fucking moron, I won't _enjoy_ the match. Or at least that part of it. He just got wiped out and should stay the fuck down. Some are entertained by that five million mile an hour style match where both guys just squeeze in as many moves as they can. I'm not. Some people aren't taken out of a match when there's people no-selling galore. I am.
> 
> I can't speak for everyone, but I certainly don't do anything more than "sit back and enjoy the ride". I can be analytical, but I'm not looking at it from any other perspective other than my own enjoyment. I'll talk about the selling because I adore it when a guy sells well- I literally enjoy that.
> 
> Facials aren't match-ruiners for me, but if I'm watching Keiji Mutoh in a submission hold and he's just staring into space not even trying to get the move over........well fuck him. That still fits into the 'no sell' category more than anything.
> 
> If there's a match with two guys, I'll use Cena and Henry. Let's say I enjoyed this match, but it could have been better to me. Cena ate a beating from Henry, and Cena ate it really well. His facials looked like he was in pain, and he bumped well, etc. By that point I'm enjoying the match. THEN, Cena bursts up out of nowhere, no sells everything and pins Henry lightning fast. I'd say "fuck that" because there's no way I'd _enjoy_ it. I wouldn't say "Cena should have built his comeback gradually" because I'm critiquing, I would say "Cena should have built his comeback gradually" because I would enjoy the match more if he did. They aren't rules and I'm not sitting with a note pad writing down what somebody did wrong. I'm sure you look at some wrestling matches and think "_insert thing here_ would have made the match a lot better." Well _insert thing here_ for me is often good selling. Or selling, period.
> 
> Note: I wasn't implying no selling was a Cena thing. I was, however, implying that staring into space is a Mutoh thing. Seriously, Keiji.....react.


Yeah1993 is my bro.


----------



## Violent By Design

Last Chancery said:


> Does anybody rate matches by how much they enjoy them anymore? Putting all these rules to wrestling really kills the fun of it, at least for me. "You MUST sell this, you MUST hold this facial expression, you CAN'T do this..."
> 
> If a facial expression ruins an entire match for you, man, I don't even know anymore. It's like the difference between going to movies because you want to see the movie, and going to movies because you're a critic. Difference is the former enjoys what he's watching while the latter doesn't and is doing it for the paycheck. In my opinion, of course. I just think nitpicking every minute detail of every minute of a match kills it. Sometimes it's just more fun to sit back and enjoy the ride.


You're essentially implying that a person cannot find a match fun or not based on selling. Selling after all is the acting part of wrestling, it can be seen as just as important as any other aspect of pro wrestling to a fan.

I don't get the movie analogy either, you didn't really bother to make a specific connection. You just said fan vs critic, but didn't bother to explain the difference. 

Being critical or analytical doesn't equate to not enjoying a product in the slightest.


----------



## Rah

Kid Kablam said:


> 2 Things
> 
> A) I do appreciate that you don't just throw snowflakes at matches without logic, or just based on how much of a buzz you get from them. I think there's been a star rating inflation with matches like Taker/HHH getting 4.75-5 stars simply because they go a certain amount of time, and incorporating a base line of brutality. Sometimes it seems like a match going 20+ minutes gets and automatic 3.5 stars, and containing a certain number of spots automatically bumps it up to 4. So I do appreciate your method, even if I don't agree with all of it.
> 
> B) Your point of selling the fear is valid, but I think you might be expecting a bit much. I like to point to the Danielson/KENTA match for this. Danielson (yes I'm using his old name) was injured, and still could do a number of moves with his legit injured shoulder. I know that selling is based on what the audience expects, and therefore selling to communicate to the audience is more important than "realism", but I think there's a lot of leeway in here. You brought up Punk not selling on getting Bryan in the fireman's carry (at least I believe that's what you were referencing)but I think Punk did a lot of selling the ribs throughout, so I was ok with it. He was slower on climbing the turn buckles etc. Same with Bryan and selling the leg. He brings it out at certain points to remind the audience that he does actually have a leg thing, and that he can only overcome it with an adrenaline burst (like he gets near the end of the match). A lot of people said that Bryan wasn't selling the leg properly, but sometimes I wonder if they were expecting Bryan to not be able to use the leg at all.


Ah, I do believe you have my point confused. 

When I say "selling fear" I don't mean selling of anything physical (say injury, as was the case with Danielson) but rather something more psychologically based. Selling, in this case, is something precursor to the actual move being fully executed and, for me, anyway, helps add a sense of danger or effectiveness to said move. It shows that Wrestler B (the one the move is being done _to_) is fearful of what Wrestler A (the wrestler in control and executing the move) is doing, and is trying his hardest to avoid it, and not simply allowing the move to be done to him. Realistically, in a fight, you won't let your opponent land unnecessary offence on you without struggling against it. It just nails home that the move in question has damage-capability and isn't merely choreographed gymnastics (which wrestling is, _but should never be portrayed as_). It's the opposing wrestler struggling while Bret Hart applies his sharpshooter. A weakened wrestler squirming his way out of a fireman carry that precedes the GTS. A wrestler, knowing his end is near, struggling in vain as The Undertaker grips his neck and goes for the chokeslam. John Cena covering his face while Brock lays waste with vicious strikes (though in this case the strikes weren't kayfabe, but the point stands).

After all, imagine what the sport would be like if every move was accompanied with as much emotive feeling as this guy brings:








I'd dare to say it would be a very bland sport, indeed.

_Wrestling is as technical as it is psychological
Wrestling is as physical as it is emotional_



Last Chancery said:


> Does anybody rate matches by how much they enjoy them anymore? Putting all these rules to wrestling really kills the fun of it, at least for me. "You MUST sell this, you MUST hold this facial expression, you CAN'T do this..."
> 
> *If a facial expression ruins an entire match for you, man, I don't even know anymore.* It's like the difference between going to movies because you want to see the movie, and going to movies because you're a critic. Difference is the former enjoys what he's watching while the latter doesn't and is doing it for the paycheck. In my opinion, of course. I just think nitpicking every minute detail of every minute of a match kills it. Sometimes it's just more fun to sit back and enjoy the ride.


I'll take that as a dig at my "selling fear" proposition. 

That said, do such things hinder a match significantly for me? No, but a match cannot be in the upper echelons if it doesn't have it. What seperates "perfect" from "excellent" is (on its surface) so miniscule I can imagine it wouldn't mean much to most, but it's the nuances that make the match so much more enjoyable for me. Maybe I'm sadistic in my technicalities but I'm overly critical in my approach to everything. *Star ratings, by their fundamental nature, involve reviewing and critiquing a match, not simply showing how much we enjoy it, after all*.

Just because a match needs X, Y and Z to get itself ***** it doesn't mean I'm constantly looking for it in every match. Likewise, just because a match receives a * rating it doesn't mean I didn't enjoy it or find it iconic in terms of its historic value (I'm over-exaggerating to make a point, obviously a * star match would, normally, be some banal opener, a (boring) spotfest or a Davey Richards match (kidding)). Eric Young matches are my guilty pleasure. They're not technical masterpieces nor blow-away performances but they are comedically entertaining to no end. For many weeks (or even months) his segments would be the best part of Impact, for me, and I'd continue with a pathetic episode purely because I knew, at least, he would make my stomach ache from laughing.

All that said I do find entertainment in the subtleties. It's the little nuances that make wrestling unique for me and a pleasure to watch some wrestlers over others. It's also these things that aren't limited to a specific wrestling genre (would style be a better word?) so I don't have to suspend too much of my likes for any specific promotion.

This sprint entertains me (at surface value) more than most matches because it satisfies the lazier part of me. This match is the fast food world of wrestling and delivers, at speed, something of somewhat decent value.





This match, however, is home-made, gourmet cooking. It takes longer to enjoy, it takes more effort, too, but the end result is so much more rewarding than a simple Big Mac with jalapenos and a smidgen of mayonnaise.





Also, basically what Yeah1993 said.

Anyway, back on topic:


dk4life said:


> PWG - DDT4 2012 - Future Shock (Adam Cole & Kyle O'Reilly) vs. Super Smash Bros. (Player Uno & Stupefied)
> _God I love the Super Smash Bros. I don't think Future Shock should have been broken up and feuding, well they aren't PWG, but you know what I mean, there was a few sloppy moments in the final 10 minutes, *but the finish was awesome, pretty damn good match*_ ******


THIS

People need to stop being ass-clowns and just watch DDT4 already!


----------



## Mattyb2266

Just watched DDT4, and SSB vs. Future Shock is my favorite match of the year so far. Granted I haven't seen a few of the bigger shows so far this year like Extreme Rules or Border Wars, but my God this was awesome. In my opinion each of the SSB matches was at least **** but this one was probably ****1/4+.


----------



## Kid Kablam

Last Chancery said:


> Does anybody rate matches by how much they enjoy them anymore? Putting all these rules to wrestling really kills the fun of it, at least for me. "You MUST sell this, you MUST hold this facial expression, you CAN'T do this..."
> 
> If a facial expression ruins an entire match for you, man, I don't even know anymore. It's like the difference between going to movies because you want to see the movie, and going to movies because you're a critic. Difference is the former enjoys what he's watching while the latter doesn't and is doing it for the paycheck. In my opinion, of course. I just think nitpicking every minute detail of every minute of a match kills it. Sometimes it's just more fun to sit back and enjoy the ride.


A star rating system is how I rate my enjoyment. The rating is simply quantifying my enjoyment so I can express it.


----------



## Certified G

Last Chancery said:


> Does anybody rate matches by how much they enjoy them anymore? Putting all these rules to wrestling really kills the fun of it, at least for me. "You MUST sell this, you MUST hold this facial expression, you CAN'T do this..."
> 
> If a facial expression ruins an entire match for you, man, I don't even know anymore. It's like the difference between going to movies because you want to see the movie, and going to movies because you're a critic. Difference is the former enjoys what he's watching while the latter doesn't and is doing it for the paycheck. In my opinion, of course. I just think nitpicking every minute detail of every minute of a match kills it. Sometimes it's just more fun to sit back and enjoy the ride.


Yep, I do..  If I think a match was very boring and it makes me tired, bored etc.. I'll give it 1 star. If I am really enjoying a match and don't want it to end for example it'll get a higher rating. I just watch wrestling for my enjoyment and don't want to overanalize everything to find small faults to give it a lower rating. (not a shot at anyone just genuinely how I feel..  )


----------



## Bubz

I literally share the exact same thoughts as Yeah1993 on this subject. I can't be bothered to write anything more in depth since he pretty much covered it. I'll just say that people enjoy matches in different ways, and a lot of people love seeing selling etc because that's what people enjoy and is a huge part of what makes matches enjoyable for people. Saying that if you critique a match just makes you a critic and not a fan is ridiculous.

More food analogies. Fuck it, off for a Big Mac now...


----------



## Last Chancery

Hohenheim of Light said:


> This is completely hilarious and wrong. The rest of your post is too, kind of, but this stands out.


Nice to know personal opinions can be wrong, especially in regard to something as subjective as one's enjoyment of a wrestling match. I've seen people rate Davey/Elgin anywhere from 3.75 to 5, reasoning varying from the selling to the facial expressions and everything in between. There is no such thing as an objectively good, or bad, wrestling match, since everybody watches for different reasons. Even the reasons I watch, from match to match, vary. Sometimes I want to sit back and enjoy the ride, not breaking a match down piece by piece. Other times, depending on my mood, excitement level and emotional investment, I can be a little more critical.

To the point, I don't blame people for being critical. Obviously selling and expressions and pacing and structure all are important factors in any match, but I maintain that it's possible to be too critical. Maybe it's just me and my simple mind, but I don't always look for that stuff when I watch. Occasionally I do, but most times I like sitting on my couch, turning up the volume and taking it all in at a more surface value. Rather than asking myself questions like, "Did Punk sell his arm as much as he should have?" and "Did Davey hold that facial expression long enough to make the submission believable?" I ask myself THIS question: "Am I enjoying myself?" While I'd agree there are a number of smaller factors that make up my overall level of enjoyment, I don't pay mind to those. I don't go into viewing with a number of qualifiers that must be met in order for me to enjoy myself. It is possible to just sit back and mindlessly consume a product, which is why I have no problem eating up a good spot fest from time to time. They're like the popcorn action movies on wrestling, replacing an overage of unnecessary explosions with, well, an overage of unnecessary spots.

It depends on how you view things. Maybe I'm not conditioned enough to appreciate all the subtleties and nuances of wrestling yet, which leads me to take a broader approach to my viewing. But I've found more enjoyment in that -- and, again, that's just me. When I'm able to watch a match and keep an open mind, I always have more fun than if I sat down with a pen and paper, taking off points for minor gaffes here and there. That's my opinion. Find it as hilarious or "wrong" as you'd like, but just know I'd rather be stupid and have a reason for it than be smart and back it up with nothing. So, I'm wrong. You didn't explain why. Fancy argument there.


----------



## Caponex75

In my view, selling shouldn't be treated the same as every where else. Like how you wouldn't see a guy no sell in the WWE like you would you see a guy in NOAH or old school AJPW. It is two completely different environments. Like I never got how people would go bonkers about Super Kicks not being sold crazy in other places where it is only in the WWE that the move is such a big deal and it is in the same category is as the lariat is in the WWE(Every other place goes crazy for it but in WWE, it is _just_ a clothesline). So in the case of Richards vs. Elgin where Elgin pops up after a German Suplex, I don't mind because it's indy and that is something I, as well as I think everyone, should come to expect. Not WWE where they are built around that sort of style(Which is a style I love btw). No selling was actually one of my criticisms of the highly praised Rollins vs. Ambrose match last year where Ambrose no sold a Super Kick. That's a move that made no sense especially when it is guys being developed into stars for World Wrestling Entertainment and are reverting back to how they work elsewhere instead of adapting to the proper setting.

Point is not everyone should be nailed to a cross for how another company does their business. That being said, I do believe there are certain rules in wrestling and certain things that should be placed in the proper position. Like timing is one of them. One of my biggest criticisms of Sami vs. Finlay in Evolve this year is Sami's constant use of the middle finger and his shitty facial expressions when Finlay was doing his work over segment(Made him a terrible FIP). If you want something to come off as a big deal and a great character moment, you have to put them in the proper place no matter what. Like Richards spitting in KENTA's face and flipping him off before KENTA started playing Soccer with his Skull at Supercard of Honor was a fantastic moment. That moment when Kobashi got slapped by Joe and you can sense the ass beating rage coming from within Kobashi(Best facial reaction guy in fucking history btw) sent electricity through the crowd. If you do these things all the time, the moments don't come off as special and instead become of a poor presentation of what could of been done better had it been handled properly. Would HBK/Undertaker II really had that climatic end had HBK been doing that throat slash throughout the whole match? Would Triple H doing that DX Chop really come off as that big of a deal had he been using during each and every time Taker had control? No.


----------



## Bubz

Caponex75 said:


> Point is not everyone should be nailed to a cross for how another company does their business. That being said, I do believe there are certain rules in wrestling and certain things that should be placed in the proper position. Like timing is one of them. One of my biggest criticisms of Sami vs. Finlay in Evolve this year is Sami's constant use of the middle finger and his shitty facial expressions when Finlay was doing his work over segment(Made him a terrible FIP). If you want something to come off as a big deal and a great character moment, you have to put them in the proper place no matter what. Like Richards spitting in KENTA's face and flipping him off before KENTA started playing Soccer with his Skull at Supercard of Honor was a fantastic moment. That moment when Kobashi got slapped by Joe and you can sense the ass beating rage coming from within Kobashi(Best facial reaction guy in fucking history btw) sent electricity through the crowd. If you do these things all the time, the moments don't come off as special and instead become of a poor presentation of what could of been done better had it been handled properly. Would HBK/Undertaker II really had that climatic end had HBK been doing that throat slash throughout the whole match? Would Triple H doing that DX Chop really come off as that big of a deal had he been using during each and every time Taker had control? No.


Completely agree with every single word you wrote here, the Sami stuff especially. I fucking despise him constantly sticking his middle finger up in like, every match when he's being worked over. It's fucking pathetic and just makes you want to see him get legit beaten up, when he's supposed to be the FIP. Awful shit. You mention the Davey/KENTA thing and that's a great example of how to pull something like that off, something I think Davey is actually really good at most of the time, and something someone like Sami can't do at all. Davey did it in both the Elgin and Steen matches this year, his reaction especially after Steen kicked out of the D.R Driver was great.

Talking of that, Davey really has all the talent to be so fucking good, but for the most part just pisses it away and I don't _enjoy_ the majority of his matches any more at all, and I don't _enjoy_ them because of the lack of logic and the lack of a good structure or story, or make that a story that appeals to me I guess. What I'm trying to say is that I enjoy a wrestling match if it has those things listed above, and I don't enjoy them if they don't. Enjoyment can come from having a certain criteria that matches should adhere to, if you don't have that then most of the time you would lose the impact of a match that includes those things, and the feeling you get of 'now that was a fucking great match' when you see a match that does. For me anyway, It's like, how can you enjoy a movie that has gaping plot holes or a shitty story or bad acting.


----------



## Yeah1993

Last Chancery said:


> Sometimes I want to sit back and enjoy the ride


I honest-to-God do that every time I watch wrestling no matter how critical I am of something. 

If you dislike a song, it's because it isn't to easy on the ears or something. You might think "the beat doesn't match the rhythm", but you're not being critical or anything. You literally just NOTICED that when listening to it. I didn't take any excess amount of thinking.



Last Chancery said:


> Maybe it's just me and my simple mind, but I don't always look for that stuff when I watch.


I NEVER *look* for it, I just notice it when I'm...........



Last Chancery said:


> sitting on my couch, turning up the volume and taking it all in at a more surface value.


......doing that.



Last Chancery said:


> Rather than asking myself questions like, "Did Punk sell his arm as much as he should have?" and "Did Davey hold that facial expression long enough to make the submission believable?" I ask myself THIS question: "Am I enjoying myself?" While I'd agree there are a number of smaller factors that make up my overall level of enjoyment, I don't pay mind to those.


That really just boils down to who enjoys what. I don't ask myself anything either, I just notice it. If Punk's selling of the arm wasn't great, it was just something I noticed and something I care about as part of the match. Not everyone's going to pull Kawada-like selling, but I get enjoyment out of good selling. And therefore "I am enjoying myself".  If you don't pay mind to selling then you just don't care too much about it, which is fine, but with a shitty sell job the match can become a mess to me. I really don't ENJOY those no-sell fests. It's not as if I DO enjoy them but criticize them for being a bad match.



Last Chancery said:


> It is possible to just sit back and mindlessly consume a product, which is why I have no problem eating up a good spot fest from time to time. They're like the popcorn action movies on wrestling, replacing an overage of unnecessary explosions with, well, an overage of unnecessary spots.


I'm mindless (some other term should prob be used here) whenever I watch wrestling. And spotfests being popcorn action movies is an accurate phrase that I've used before, but I just happen to loathe popcorn action movies. 




Last Chancery said:


> It depends on how you view things. Maybe I'm not conditioned enough to appreciate all the subtleties and nuances of wrestling yet, which leads me to take a broader approach to my viewing. But I've found more enjoyment in that -- and, again, that's just me.


Nothing to do with that. I mean yeah, no-selling started bothering me later into my viewing when I saw what really great selling looked like, but some people don't care if a guy no-sells a move and probably never will. Fuck, Dave Meltzer's been a wrestling fan for how long now? Fucking DECADES. He's watched a ton of wrestling from around the world and has his opinion held in a high regard by a LOT of people. And he gives really high ratings to those kinds of spotfest no-sell matches. He enjoys them, I don't.



Last Chancery said:


> I sat down with a pen and paper, taking off points for minor gaffes here and there.


I have no idea why anyone would sit down with pen and paper when watching a match. I'd do it for only ONE reason, and that'd be if someone wanted my opinion on a match and I found it hard to remember everything that happened. But I wouldn't be scribbling "minor gaffes" or whatever, I'd prob just have a "LIKE" and "DISLIKE" column. And it's not like I'd have to think about what I liked and disliked. Even then if I don't remember anything it probably wasn't worth remembering. Pen and paper could totally suck my enjoyment out of the match. I don't get how the play-by-play writers do it. They write WHILE they're watching? EVERY spot!? FUCK that. Props to them for it not bothering them. Sometimes I write a paragraph on a match DAYS after I've watched it. Seriously.


----------



## bigbuxxx

> Would HBK/Undertaker II really had that climatic end had HBK been doing that throat slash throughout the whole match?


when hbk did that it was anticlimactic.


----------



## Goku

Last Chancery said:


> Nice to know personal opinions can be wrong, especially in regard to something as subjective as one's enjoyment of a wrestling match.


Personal opinions can be wrong like everything else. But you misinterpreted my point.


----------



## Yeah1993

Headbanger Mosh is better than Steve Austin = wrong opinion.


----------



## Chismo

Caponex75 said:


> One of my biggest criticisms of Sami vs. Finlay in Evolve this year is Sami's constant use of the middle finger and his shitty facial expressions when Finlay was doing his work over segment(Made him a terrible FIP).





BUBZ said:


> Completely agree with every single word you wrote here, the Sami stuff especially. I fucking despise him constantly sticking his middle finger up in like, every match when he's being worked over. It's fucking pathetic and just makes you want to see him get legit beaten up, when he's supposed to be the FIP. Awful shit.


You see, the thing is, Sami is not a babyface in EVOLVE, and he's not "supposed to be the FIP". He's an annoying DUF heel that people want to see knocked the fuck out, and good old Finlay just gives people what they want. He's like Vegas of pro wrestling.


----------



## Rah

Yeah1993 said:


> Hohenheim of Light said:
> 
> 
> 
> Personal opinions can be wrong like everything else. But you misinterpreted my point.
> 
> 
> 
> Headbanger Mosh is better than Steve Austin = wrong opinion.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Personal opinions can only ever be "wrong" if they attempt to subjectify an objective analysis.

*Personal Opinion #1:* "Doink The Clown was a much better wrestler than Daniel Bryan will ever be!"
Insane and completely inaccurate.

*Personal Opinion #2:* "Doink The Clown was a much more entertaining wrestler than Daniel Bryan will ever be!"
I'd personally find this a bit of a muddy water to swim through, but I'd have no qualms with someone saying it.

In these cases personal opinion has relied either on talent (an objective marker) or on entertainment (a subjective marker that the viewer each holds differently). Talent is objective in that you either are a phenomenal worker or you just aren't. Entertainment, however, is left up to viewer preference. Some people love popcorn actions while others like psychological thrillers, that isn't to say a movie from whichever genre is thus _better_, the viewer merely finds more enjoyment in it. Likewise, if someone doesn't like popcorn action movies, they should still be able to find the talent in one if its a great _movie_.

Which leads to:


Last Chancery said:


> Nice to know personal opinions can be wrong, especially in regard to something as subjective as one's enjoyment of a wrestling match. I've seen people rate Davey/Elgin anywhere from 3.75 to 5, reasoning varying from the selling to the facial expressions and everything in between. *There is no such thing as an objectively good, or bad, wrestling match, since everybody watches for different reasons*. Even the reasons I watch, from match to match, vary. Sometimes I want to sit back and enjoy the ride, not breaking a match down piece by piece. Other times, depending on my mood, excitement level and emotional investment, I can be a little more critical.


Ah, but there is!

We merely pollute our views with our subjective biases. It's only human to do so. An objectively perfect match is, thus, one that doesn't have faults or gaffes, is worked excellently, has strong structure and meaning behind its spots. At the surface that seemingly removes "spotfests" from the concept of a "perfect match", and I'd have agreed (I was in two minds in writing that sentence, already) but there does lie one example in recent memory to make justice to my point - Steen/Generico from PWG SteenWolf.

I can't remember who I had the argument with (bigbuxxx?), but it was this exact point. It was a spotfest, "spots" were used in beautiful excess, but they all had meaning behind them. They all added to the story that the title was secondary to the main objective in killing their opponent. After all, why is the word "spotfest" synonymous with "meaningless fun"? When did it stop being both fun and well-worked? Subjectively, an average-worked spotfest can be immensely entertaining, but a spotfest can also be objectively great, too, albeit possibly harder to do (?).

The second dimension to wrestling, though, is what creates the biggest incongruences amongst its fans - that of subjective enjoyment which you've pushed in the latter part of your post: 



> To the point, I don't blame people for being critical. Obviously selling and expressions and pacing and structure all are important factors in any match, but I maintain that it's possible to be too critical. Maybe it's just me and my simple mind, but I don't always look for that stuff when I watch. Occasionally I do, but most times I like sitting on my couch, turning up the volume and taking it all in at a more surface value. Rather than asking myself questions like, "Did Punk sell his arm as much as he should have?" and "Did Davey hold that facial expression long enough to make the submission believable?" I ask myself THIS question: "Am I enjoying myself?" While I'd agree there are a number of smaller factors that make up my overall level of enjoyment, I don't pay mind to those. I don't go into viewing with a number of qualifiers that must be met in order for me to enjoy myself. It is possible to just sit back and mindlessly consume a product, which is why I have no problem eating up a good spot fest from time to time. They're like the popcorn action movies on wrestling, replacing an overage of unnecessary explosions with, well, an overage of unnecessary spots.
> 
> It depends on how you view things. Maybe I'm not conditioned enough to appreciate all the subtleties and nuances of wrestling yet, which leads me to take a broader approach to my viewing. But I've found more enjoyment in that -- and, again, that's just me. When I'm able to watch a match and keep an open mind, I always have more fun than if I sat down with a pen and paper, taking off points for minor gaffes here and there. That's my opinion. Find it as hilarious or "wrong" as you'd like, but just know I'd rather be stupid and have a reason for it than be smart and back it up with nothing. So, I'm wrong. You didn't explain why. Fancy argument there.


Woah! You don't need to be conditioned to do anything. I'm actually glad you have a differing opinion. It's created quite a lengthy debate that otherwise would have been filled with (possibly) asinine posts merely spouting random numbers of collected *'s after bolded titles and with no meaning behind them.  debate > random rating droppings, imo. I don't think it's going to do so here, but it can help open our eyes to a new way of viewing something. At the very least, though, I think this will all help us understand each others opinions in future matches and why we rated them as such (and especially in what matches to look out for, as we roughly now know our subjective differences).

I'll admit to the pen and paper scenario. I do it at times, but this is only if I'm going to review it at length. I don't instinctively wait for each moment and tick it off against the box, but if a moment blows my mind (or, inversely, makes me cringe) I'll write it down. It's merely something I can go back to after the match so I can, in sum, tot up my feelings on it in a coherent and articulated manner that is free from random interjection of thought and criticism/praise. Perhaps others can write/review, perfectly, ad lib but I cannot. But do not confuse this for me having a printed out ticker-list of "sells fear", "facial expression" and "bleeds the correct shade of sanguine" which I mark each match against, because I don't.

Perhaps, to you, I try to objectify my ratings too much with entertainment stemming from the nuances and "flawlessness" rather than "flawless matches" stemming from my entertainment. But I'd much rather be at this point than simply rate something on how much I enjoy it. To me, a review is meant to be critical and be as least bias (and, thus, as least subjective) as possible. It's meant to be a go-to for someone else in seeing how great a match truly is, not how much the reviewer enjoyed it (even if that's what it inherently comes down to being as a match is meant to suck you into its soul). 

The objective does make my subjective, thus. A wrestlers emotions and his selling lead to building his plight. A plight that makes me sit on the edge of my seat and root for him in attaining victory, in overcoming the odds. That makes me feel like nothing else matters, and that wrestler represents me (as weird as it sounds) and him winning means everything. It's a slow process with each nuance adding to the build, and each stark contrast detracting from it. That's what makes me go batshit-bananas for a match. When I'm in the match, and I don't feel like I'm merely watching (with however much enjoyment) from a cinema seat, I know its done what it was meant to do. _But that's just me_.



Caponex75 said:


> In my view, selling shouldn't be treated the same as every where else. Like how you wouldn't see a guy no sell in the WWE like you would you see a guy in NOAH or old school AJPW. It is two completely different environments. Like I never got how people would go bonkers about Super Kicks not being sold crazy in other places where it is only in the WWE that the move is such a big deal and it is in the same category is as the lariat is in the WWE(Every other place goes crazy for it but in WWE, it is just a clothesline). So in the case of Richards vs. Elgin where Elgin pops up after a German Suplex, I don't mind because it's indy and that is something I, as well as I think everyone, should come to expect. Not WWE where they are built around that sort of style(Which is a style I love btw). No selling was actually one of my criticisms of the highly praised Rollins vs. Ambrose match last year where Ambrose no sold a Super Kick. That's a move that made no sense especially when it is guys being developed into stars for World Wrestling Entertainment and are reverting back to how they work elsewhere instead of adapting to the proper setting.
> 
> Point is not everyone should be nailed to a cross for how another company does their business. That being said, I do believe there are certain rules in wrestling and certain things that should be placed in the proper position. Like timing is one of them. One of my biggest criticisms of Sami vs. Finlay in Evolve this year is Sami's constant use of the middle finger and his shitty facial expressions when Finlay was doing his work over segment(Made him a terrible FIP). If you want something to come off as a big deal and a great character moment, you have to put them in the proper place no matter what. Like Richards spitting in KENTA's face and flipping him off before KENTA started playing Soccer with his Skull at Supercard of Honor was a fantastic moment. That moment when Kobashi got slapped by Joe and you can sense the ass beating rage coming from within Kobashi(Best facial reaction guy in fucking history btw) sent electricity through the crowd. If you do these things all the time, the moments don't come off as special and instead become of a poor presentation of what could of been done better had it been handled properly. Would HBK/Undertaker II really had that climatic end had HBK been doing that throat slash throughout the whole match? Would Triple H doing that DX Chop really come off as that big of a deal had he been using during each and every time Taker had control? No.


I actually had this somewhat written in to my other post, but I thought I'd remove it from keeping the post from being too long. I do agree with your first paragraph completely, and it is how I approach certain promotions. RoH for wrestling perfectionism, and WWE for sport-entertainment.



JoeRulz said:


> BUBZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Completely agree with every single word you wrote here, the Sami stuff especially. I fucking despise him constantly sticking his middle finger up in like, every match when he's being worked over. It's fucking pathetic and just makes you want to see him get legit beaten up, when he's supposed to be the FIP.
> 
> 
> 
> You see, the thing is, Sami is not a babyface in EVOLVE, and he's not "supposed to be the FIP". He's an annoying DUF heel that people want to see knocked the fuck out, and good old Finlay just gives people what they want. He's like Vegas of pro wrestling.
Click to expand...

Firstly, what is a FIP and DUF?

Secondly, a great heel is a master manipulator of the crowd. He makes them despise him because of his character. What I believe Capone and JoeRulz to mean is that they wish for him to be beaten up simply because of his continuous over-usage of the same shtick, not because he's effectively working a heel persona. When the crowd hates you for being shit it doesn't mean you're good, it means you're, well, shit.

I'm not one to call Sami that, but I can see their argument holding ground. He does do it in _every_ match that he plays subservience in. Even his DDT4 matches. Though Steen viciously biting into his finger was a nice crowd-pleaser.


----------



## Chismo

Rah said:


> Firstly, what is a FIP and DUF?


FIP means Face In Peril, and DUF means Dirty Ugly Fuck (Sami's stable).


----------



## TelkEvolon

I don't think I have ever read FIP and it not be about A wrestling company based in Florida.


----------



## Yeah1993

I've seen and used FIP a bunch of times. No idea how old it is, but I don't remember hearing it until maybe last year.


----------



## Bubz

First person I saw use it was Seabs sometime last year lol. I remember someone else asking what it meant back then too, I just found it a lot easier to write so I started using it.


----------



## jawbreaker

yeah I picked it up from Seabs as well.

I've been doing a lot of writing about wrestling lately and not once have I actually written anything while the match is going on. If I see something I love I'll make a mental note to talk about it, but then unless I really want to do a proper review and dissect the story and such, I'll just braindump all the things I like and don't like about the match. If I feel like the match deserves a totally analytical review I'll put it on again and go chronologically and talk about what I like and don't like.

Like, here's my Cena/Khali Judgment Day 07 review:


Cena/Khali was pretty cool. Thought Cena's bumping got a bit ridiculous at points (oh come on, no matter how big a dude is he is not going to beat you with a powerslam where he doesn't even lay out) but his offense was all fantastic and he played the underdog role perfectly. Khali looked like a monster here even though he tapped out, and it's all thanks to Cena. About as good a story as you're going to find in a sub-10 minute world title match (think this goes about 8:50). Only thing really holding it back for me is just how shitty a lot of the moves looked (Cena very obviously pulls all his punches in the early going and Khali forgets to sell them, plus general Khali sloppiness).


...and here's my HHH/Jericho Fully Loaded 2000 review:


Aw yeah, this ruled my fucking face off. Jericho is on fire in the beginning and beats up the evil bad guy. Triple H looks desperate, like he wasn't expecting this, and Stephanie does a great job on the outside being all "oh no, Hunter might actually lose." Then Hunter takes control and targets Jericho's injured ribs, and it's pretty cool. Rips off the tape, drops elbows on his back, it's all pretty nice. Stephanie is great again here, looking totally gleeful when she gets to slap Jericho.

Eventually Hunter tries to get the 10 count, but Jericho gets up, so Hunter goes to a sleeper with bodyscissors, which is a really really nice touch because it actually looks like he's putting pressure on the ribs which he's been working over all match. Jericho just barely beats the count and gives this fucking awesome "come on, motherfucker" gesture while staggering around and Hunter punches him in the face and Jericho goes down, but then pulls himself to his feet using the ropes and tells Hunter to hit him again. Hunter does and Jericho gets up again and gives the Game a crotch chop, falling over as he does it. Fucking brilliant spot there. Then Hunter hits a Pedigree for about as great a false finish as you're going to get in a LMS match.

While Triple H is lying down on the top rope in the corner, Jericho struggles to his feet, and Hunter, all pissed off, goes and gets a chair, and hits Jericho in the ribs and then the back with it. He sets up for a Pedigree on the chair but the ref doesn't want him to, so he shoves him out of the way, but this lets Jericho give him a low blow and take control. Perfectly timed, the crowd pops huge for the low blow. From here on out it's a really great finishing stretch. Probably my favorite spot is when Jericho has Hunter in the Walls and Hunter gets to the ropes but because this is a LMS match Jericho doesn't break. Wish more matches did that. Finish which I'm not going to spoil is also fucking fantastic. Puts over the fucking war that this was and makes both guys look awesome.



Both are basically just lists of things I like and don't like, but one is longer, more organized, and took a bit more time whereas the other I basically wrote in five minutes after watching the match. The deciding factor as to whether I'll go all out is a mix of how much I like it, whether I'm starting a discussion or contributing to one (first review was contributing, second was starting), and whether or not I disagree with what appears to be the majority opinion. I'll go a whole lot more in-depth talking about why Briscoes/WGTT FB sucks if people generally think it's good (or even acceptable) than if they all think it's terrible.


----------



## seabs

*I'm a trendsetter :kean

Actually I got it from Andy3K years ago.

Watched Aries/Ray yesterday. Match is real good but it's not enough of a match to be a MOTYC imo. Felt like it needed more depth in the middle but they got everything spot on and the finish was great. Give Ray a longer more dominant control segment in the middle and I'd consider it a MOTYC.*


----------



## Mattyb2266

Just watched Seth Rollins vs. Kassius Ohno from FCW last month and I really enjoyed it. Definitely not the best match the two have had with each other but I'd say about ***3/4. Worth a watch.


----------



## EmbassyForever

You know what worth a watch? Christian vs. Drew Mcicntyre - Superstars i beliave. Good match. WWE really need to push Mcintyre, he's a great worker.


----------



## Rah

Someone else that wishes for Drew to be pushed? :O

Maybe there's hope that my A-Ry obsession will be shared, too...


----------



## EmbassyForever

Ah, Riley is good, but still green. But i enjoyed his feud with Miz last year.


----------



## Certified G

No Drew McIntyre shouldn't get pushed imo, I know this isn't the WWE section so I'll keep it short, but in my opinion Drew has nothing to offer that other people can't also offer. Drew is good in the ring and he has good length but that's all there is to him. 
His accent is so bad that personally I can't understand what he's trying to say half the time he speaks, he doesn't have alot of charisma or presence and so his in ring work is his only saving grace.

However you have guys like Dolph Ziggler walking around who is also very good in the ring but atleast has some charisma and presence (not enough to warrant a main event push but I seem to be one of few who sees him as a midcarder). So I really don't see why Drew should be pushed, if WWE should push someone based on ring work alone it should be Tyson Kidd.


----------



## flag sabbath

*Akira Tozawa vs. El Ligero - PCW Guild Wars 2/6/12:* I'm a cynical middle-aged man whose disbelief has grown too bloated & sluggish to be suspended on a regular basis, but by the end of tonight Akira Tozawa had me marking out like the stoopid kid I used to be. He also won over an initially indifferent audience with a beast of a performance in which he dominated Ligero with the most exciting & explosive offence I've seen live. Ligero's short-lived comebacks punctuated the match perfectly & a competitive home stretch with several dramatic near-falls from jaw-on-the-floor exchanges had the place going nuts. Not sure how it'll hold up on dvd, but live it was easily *****1/4*


----------



## Yeah1993

When McIntyre gets the opprotunities to become so, he's one of the best wrestlers in the company. I'd say the world if I bothered to watch anything else. I won't hide the fact I think he smokes Ziggler and Tyson; I find both of them overrated.

Riley is as bad as anyone in the WWE, though. That guy is fucking AWFUL. Who's worse? Khali? That Other Indian Guy?


----------



## jawbreaker

McIntyre might make a top five workers in WWE list if I made one. Behind Danielson, Ziggler, Henry, maybe Punk, and I don't know who else. He's super. His elimination chamber performance in the one he was in was one of my favorite things in WWE the year that it happened.


----------



## Zatiel

I would certainly push Ziggler harder and higher, but I'd still push McIntyre. He's got size and a look, but now he has experience and has improved well enough to warrant the push he debuted with. I'm afraid he's doomed for the Chris Masters treatment: once he's good enough to match what they wanted originally, they axe you.


----------



## Yeah1993

Matsers.  He was almost better than everyone in the company as well. No joke with the right push I wouldn't be surprised to see him as the best wrestler in the world. Though, it might interesting to see if guys like that can work the longer main events. They're great in TV matches and everything, but who knows.


----------



## Cactus

*Masato Tanaka & Ikuto Hidaka vs Naomichi Marufuji & Taiji Ishimori - Zero-1 5/16/2012*
_I thought this was just going to be a dose of underwhelming Ishimori/Marufuji flippy shit and it was for the first part. However when the Hidaka made the hot tag to Tanaka, the place exploded. This all lead to MaruMori upping it up a notch and go balls to the walls with spots. Well-timed and structured spotfest and Marufuji's best performance since his match with Suigura last November._
*Rating: ★★★★*


----------



## Chismo

Random re-watch:

*Bully Ray vs. Austin Aries (TNA, Sacrifice 2012)*

Story. Characters. Structure. Mind games. This match had all of those elements in high quantity, combine it with some great and stiff action, and you get a MOTYC, easily. This was perfect for 13 minutes only, and it's a shame their feud ended here, because with 4-5 more minutes, these two could reach five stars, IMO. Both guys played their characters to perfection. This is TNA's MOTY so far, it's slightly better than Angle/Hardy from Victory Road.
*Rating: *****


----------



## Cactus

*Austin Aries vs Bully Ray - TNA Sacrifice*
_I finally got around to watch this and I thought it was pretty good for the most part. The best part of the match was easily the first few minutes leading up to the big spot where Aries takes a tumble to the outside. Not much happens before that, but great character work from both men. Bully is a great eh... bully character and Aries can pull of the babyface underdog character surprisingly well. The crowd being near-enough dead really stopped Aries comebacks from being anything special. I wasn't too big on the ending however. Aries should of won with the brainbuster. One of the factors of the match was seeing if Aries could lift Bully up for the move and when he finally does, Bully kicks out with ease, only to be put away with the submission. _
*Rating: ★★★1/2*


----------



## djmathers1207

Young Bucks vs. F.I.S.T **** 1/2-**** 1/4
Gran Akuma vs. Icarus ****-**** 1/2


----------



## MF83

Prince Devitt vs. Low Ki is a top 10 year end MOTYC. ****1/2-****3/4
Goto/Okada is sensational ****1/4. Nakamura/Anderson is awesome **** and just a little better than MiSu/Takayama vs. Makabe/Nagata of the same rating. 

Dontaku is the best non-G1 NJPW show in a long time in my opinion.


----------



## Bubz

Looking forward to all of those matches. Where did you manage to find that show?


----------



## seabs

*Gaijin Puro have it for sale. Just brought it myself. Probs watch tomorrow. I'll try and rip it for everyone else if nobody else does too. Have a hard time believing Ki/Devitt was that good but I'm excited at the prospect of it being that great.*


----------



## smitlick

click the link in my sig.... I'd assume he bought it there.


----------



## Chismo

Can't wait to see Okada/Goto and Karl/Shinskay.


----------



## Bubz

Remember when most people, including myself, were wondering what the fuck Okada was doing going straight to the main event? He's really turned me around. Dude seems on his way to becoming legit in a couple years, and I genuinely look forward to his singles matches more than any other on the cards. He seems to bring out the best in people, look at Naito, I really don't think he's that good at all, but the Okada match was so great and Naito was made to look amazing, and I enjoyed the Tanahashi match more than any Tana match with the exception of Tana/MiSu since probably the Goto match last year. He seems to know how to tell a really good story in the ring. He's obviously got a lot to improve on, but he seems like a really good talent so far.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Low Ki vs. Prince Devitt - ****1/2
A really super-awesome match, but should be longer imo. Really like this Ki, can't wait for watching him more in NJPW.


----------



## Bruce L

Haven't watched Okada/Goto or Devitt/Ki yet, but I can vouch for the awesomeness of Shinskay/Anderson. After their G1 match last year and their New Japan Cup match this year, am I jumping the gun by saying that they're my favorite opponents in New Japan right now? Really excellent match.


----------



## Zatiel

Was not as impressed with Devitt/Ki as I wanted to be, but I'm not into Devitt like most people. The match was largely his spotty formula, which is more fun in highlight form or in the finishing stretch. He's best in ten-minute matches where selling and time-filling aren't as important. Some great spots, and the second big stomp really sucked in the crowd, but not anything I'm re-watch.

Goto/Okada was something special. It followed the formula of Okada's title matches for the first half, but Goto is such a sucker in title bouts that it was excusable he'd succumb to the same things Okada's been doing, and only counter the same things everyone else counters. By the midpoint they really went after each other's necks, making it feel like a titanic struggle of heavy bombs, ala the high points of Okada/Naito. My match of the night, and best thing I've seen recently.

Nakamura/Anderson was a lot of fun. Nakamura worked his butt off and was in prime drunk-asshole-mannerism mode. Not necessarily a great match, but every minute of it was simply fun and they made Anderson look respectable. Hope to keep seeing these guys go at it for years to come.


----------



## seabs

*Thought Ki vs Devitt and Makabe/Nagata vs Suzuki/Takayama were both ****. 

Thought Ki was solid which makes it one of his better performances but Devitt was terrific working from behind. Needed a hotter crowd and more substance to the finish for me to consider it a MOTYC though.

Tag was basically perfect for what it needed to be in that position on the card. Tak's probably gonna be dead in 5 years but every now and he again he can still be on and he was awesome in this.

Really liked Nakamura/Anderson but I didn't think there was enough of it for it to be great. Thought Okada/Goto was decent but I didn't care enough about it to get into it much. Mostly due to Goto but Okada didn't help suck me into a Goto match like Tanahashi/Nakamura/Naito can and have.*


----------



## MRRSNTNO

Although Daniel Bryan/Shamus takes the cake for MOTY thus far, I can't help but say I thoroughly, THOROUGHLY enjoyed CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho at WrestleMania. The match did admittedly take a while to pick up, but the ending sequence was probably one of the best I've ever watched. Every bit about it was great. The technique of both wrestlers, the commentary and the crowd all made it amazing.

Best Ending Sequence of the Year? CM Punk/Jericho, WrestleMania 28.


----------



## rafz

NOAH GLOBAL TAG LEAGUE 29/04
_Go Shiozaki & Tamon Honda vs Kensuke Sasaki & Kento Miyahara_
*****1/4*

_Shinjiro Otani & Daichi Hashimoto vs Takeshi Morishima & Katsuhiko Nakajima_
******

NJPW 40th Anniversary 03/05
_Prince Devitt vs. Low Ki_
******


----------



## smitlick

*Evolve 13*
El Generico vs Sami Callihan
****


----------



## Bubz

*NJPW Dontaku 3/5/12*

*Low Ki vs Prince Devitt*
Great match here with the story being Lowki going after Devitt's injured ribs. Lowki was great at doing so, and Devitt was awesome selling the ribs. The workover was sweet and it wasn't too long so it didn't drag, and I absolutely loved the sequence that led to Devitt's comeback. The finishing stretch was really good, and even though Devitt kicked out of the double foot stomp and the Ki Crusher, it didn't seem like overkill. I honestly would have liked the workover to maybe last a little longer to get the feeling that Devitt was seriously in trouble, but it was fine the way it was I guess. Ki won over the crowd with his performance here which was cool, and I thought he was really good and I'm looking forward to seeing more of him in Japan, I think it suits him better than the US indy's. Anyway, great stuff but it was missing something to really elevate it for me. Saying that it was the most I've enjoyed either guy for quite a while. ******

*Kazuchika Okada vs Hirooki Goto*
This was awesome. I'm guessing I might like this more than a few people though. Started slow with some chain wrestling but ended up with Goto realising Okada's game plan to try and go after the neck so he turned the tables and Goto went after Okada's neck. It was surprising to see Okada as the heel being worked over early on but he turned it around after hitting a boot over the railing and Goto landed right on his head, that looked nasty as hell, it must have been an accident but it set up Okada's neck work perfectly. He again busted out those swanky submissions and everything he did looked great when he was in control. There was a real nice submission exchange nearer the end with both guys going after the other guys neck. I'm starting to like the way Okada uses the tombstone now. Some of the sequences were so slick, like Goto going for that run behind lariat but Okada countering it with an amazing dropkick. They really messed up one spot which was a counter and it looked pretty bad but they recovered it and from then on the finishing stretch absolutely made up for it. It was sick and probably a better finish than the Naito/Okada match. Both just throwing big moves all aimed at the neck was aewesome. I loved all the counters Goto had for the Rainmaker, and the last one especially looked so fucking smooth and well executed. The finish itself was awesome, I love the way Okada builds up the Rainmaker throughout the finishing stretch, but I kind of wish he would get rid of that Death Valley Driver he does, It's probably the only thing he does that doesn't look that great, and I think the Air Raid neckbreaker is enough of a devastating signature move to not need anything else before the Lariat. Both guys sold really well throughout too which helped a lot, I thought Goto did especially well with the selling since he was worked over longer. Great match, not on the level of the Naito/Okada match, but Okada is the truth. His entrance completely owns as well. *****1/4*


----------



## geraldinhio

Any other matches from BOSJ worth watching? How were PAC's matches? He wrestled Liger if I'm not mistaken. I didn't have a clue Kendrick was in the tournament , random enough. The whole weekend is up on YT so I might watch it one of the days , probably when the Euros are over.


----------



## Bubz

PAC/Liger was really sloppy unfortunately. Cool to see PAC in a ring with Liger though. Ki/Taniguchi was really enjoyable, just a really slick match. Ki looked to be having a ton of fun.


----------



## seabs

geraldinhio said:


> Any other matches from BOSJ worth watching? How were PAC's matches? He wrestled Liger if I'm not mistaken. I didn't have a clue Kendrick was in the tournament , random enough. *The whole weekend is up on YT* so I might watch it one of the days , probably when the Euros are over.


*

Only the 1st day is online. The PAC/Devitt show aired today and the Finals are tomorrow. Probably pick them up for GP and watch them on my day off. The Dontaku show wasn't a BOSJ show btw.

Devitt/KUSHIDA is the only match from Day 1 worth going out to see. PAC/Liger wasn't very good but it wasn't meant to be a great match. Just a way to introduce PAC to the New Japan crowd, same with the BUSHI and Del Oro matches.*


----------



## Chismo

Angel De Oro is awesome.


----------



## seabs

*Bobby Roode vs AJ Styles - TNA World Championship - TNA iMPACT 24.05.2012*
_TNA MOTY so far for me just ahead of Aries/Shelley. Could have easily been MOTY if it got another 10 minutes I thought. Doesn't go by your traditional babyface shine > heel control segment > finish formula but in this case I liked it more with what they did. AJ gets plenty during the match but everytime he starts building momentum Roode cuts him off. Made both guys look super. AJ looked worthy of being the champ by not being dominated all match but Roode also looked worthy of being the champ by hanging in there for the duration, working on top of AJ at times and always being able to halt AJ when he got momentum. Some fucking great cut off spots too, particularly the steps bump and the spear. Finish was great, basically perfect for a TV Title match. Liked it even more because AJ lost his attention earlier in the match too which made the finish more plausible. I felt a bit deflated at the end but only because the video said it had 10 minutes left and I thought there was 10 minutes of the match left. Roode's celebration on his own after was glorious too, as was his reaction when Sting turned up. Super match, super booking, super angle. Super._

*****+*

*Ryusuke Taguchi vs TAKA Michinoku - NJPW 06.06.2012*
_This was tons of fun and ended being really good by the end of it once when they kicked into the higher gear. TAKA's shtick is really entertaining and Taguchi rolls with it nicely. Quality is really good then once they lay down on the fun shtick and the final few minutes are really super followed by a great finish. Isn't a MOTYC but it's something everyone will enjoy and most should really like._

*Low Ki vs Brian Kendrick - NJPW 06.06.2012*
_And for the first time in years an entertaining Ki and Kendrick turn up and they both turn up on the same night when they're facing each other. Yay! Kendrick's act is really fun here. Running scared of everything that Ki aims at him. Spot where Ki's on the top rope and Kendrick scurries into the crowd hiding behind a fan and smirks like an idiot at how clever a pussy he is. They play nicely off their history with each other too with Kendrick being aware of Ki's big moves and treating them like death trying to avoid them. Finish is super too. Best match from either guy in years._

******

*Prince Devitt vs PAC - NJPW 06.06.2012*
_You know when you're expectations for a match get so high it's impossible for them to deliver. That was a big fear of mine with this but it absolutely delivered. Awesome match. Best Juniors match so far this year and I suspect it'll stay that way too. Like Ki/Kendrick they do a bunch of counter spots because they know each other so well but they're much better here. Spot where they're fighting for the first dive was fucking superb. Really well structured peaking at the end with a superb last few minutes. This is about as good as Juniors matches get these days._

*****1/4+*


----------



## EmbassyForever

Seabs said:


> *Bobby Roode vs AJ Styles - TNA World Championship - TNA iMPACT 24.05.2012*
> _TNA MOTY so far for me just ahead of Aries/Shelley. Could have easily been MOTY if it got another 10 minutes I thought. Doesn't go by your traditional babyface shine > heel control segment > finish formula but in this case I liked it more with what they did. AJ gets plenty during the match but everytime he starts building momentum Roode cuts him off. Made both guys look super. AJ looked worthy of being the champ by not being dominated all match but Roode also looked worthy of being the champ by hanging in there for the duration, working on top of AJ at times and always being able to halt AJ when he got momentum. Some fucking great cut off spots too, particularly the steps bump and the spear. Finish was great, basically perfect for a TV Title match. Liked it even more because AJ lost his attention earlier in the match too which made the finish more plausible. I felt a bit deflated at the end but only because the video said it had 10 minutes left and I thought there was 10 minutes of the match left. Roode's celebration on his own after was glorious too, as was his reaction when Sting turned up. Super match, super booking, super angle. Super._
> 
> *****+*
> 
> *Ryusuke Taguchi vs TAKA Michinoku - NJPW 06.06.2012*
> _This was tons of fun and ended being really good by the end of it once when they kicked into the higher gear. TAKA's shtick is really entertaining and Taguchi rolls with it nicely. Quality is really good then once they lay down on the fun shtick and the final few minutes are really super followed by a great finish. Isn't a MOTYC but it's something everyone will enjoy and most should really like._
> 
> *Low Ki vs Brian Kendrick - NJPW 06.06.2012*
> _And for the first time in years an entertaining Ki and Kendrick turn up and they both turn up on the same night when they're facing each other. Yay! Kendrick's act is really fun here. Running scared of everything that Ki aims at him. Spot where Ki's on the top rope and Kendrick scurries into the crowd hiding behind a fan and smirks like an idiot at how clever a pussy he is. They play nicely off their history with each other too with Kendrick being aware of Ki's big moves and treating them like death trying to avoid them. Finish is super too. Best match from either guy in years._
> 
> ******
> 
> *Prince Devitt vs PAC - NJPW 06.06.2012*
> _You know when you're expectations for a match get so high it's impossible for them to deliver. That was a big fear of mine with this but it absolutely delivered. Awesome match. Best Juniors match so far this year and I suspect it'll stay that way too. Like Ki/Kendrick they do a bunch of counter spots because they know each other so well but they're much better here. Spot where they're fighting for the first dive was fucking superb. Really well structured peaking at the end with a superb last few minutes. This is about as good as Juniors matches get these days._
> 
> *****1/4+*


Date/Event for Kendrick-Ki? sounds great lol


----------



## smitlick

It says the date in his post


----------



## topper1

smitlick said:


> It says the date in his post


LOL


----------



## Rickey

*TNA Slammiversary 2012*
Kaz and Christopher Daniels vs. Kurt Angle and AJ Styles 

Samoa Joe vs. Austin Aries

And purely storytelling wise: Bully Ray vs. Joseph Park


----------



## EmbassyForever

TNA Slammiversary 2012:

- Jeff Hardy vs. RVD vs. Mr. Anderson - ***1/4
- Austin Aries vs. Samoa Joe - ***3/4
- Kaz and Christopher Daniels vs. Kurt Angle and AJ Styles - ****1/4

A Must-See show imo, the crowd was on fire, really great matches, a lot of amazing moments... Best TNA show since 2006


----------



## MF83

Eh, Ki vs. Kendrick was good, not great imo. I enjoyed the heavy 8 man and TAKA/Taguchi more, but I went into this with really high expectations so I might have to rewatch it. Though "Best match from either guy..." - absolutely not for Ki. I mean, his performance vs. Devitt was just remarkable IMO. PAC vs. Devitt was pretty spectacular though. It has some minor selling issues to be fair, but this is a crazy good time. ****-****1/4


----------



## Bubz

I'll have to re-watch it but the tag title match from Slammiversary was all sorts of fun.


----------



## darkclaudio

TNA Slammiversary 2012:

- Jeff Hardy vs. RVD vs. Mr. Anderson ***1/4
- Austin Aries vs. Samoa Joe ***3/4
- Kaz and Christopher Daniels vs. Kurt Angle and AJ Styles ***3/4-****


----------



## IAmLegend12.21.12

*TNA Slammiversary X*

Austin Aries Vs Samoa Joe - X-Division Title Match {****}

Hernandez Vs Kid Kash - Singles Match {**1/4}

Devon & Garett Bischoff Vs Robbie E & Robbie T - Tag Team Match {*1/2}

Jeff Hardy Vs Mr. Anderson Vs Rob Van Dam - TNA World Heavyweight Title No.1 Contenders 3 Way Match - {***1/2}

Crimson Vs James Storm - Singles Match {1/2}

Gail Kim Vs Brooke Tessmacher - TNA Knockout Title Match {**1/2}

Bully Ray Vs Joseph Park - Anything Goes Match {***} (Match was good in terms of storyline progression, but was not a great technical match)

Christopher Daniels & Kazarian Vs AJ Styles & Kurt Angle - TNA World Tag Team Titles Match {****1/4}

Bobby Roode Vs Sting TNA World Heavyweight Title Match {**3/4}


----------



## Bubz

*TNA Slammiversary - Austin Aries vs Samoa Joe*
Holy shit what an opener. I absolutely loved this, right from the entrances. Just sick back and forth action and so crisp and fluid with them knowing eachother so well. Some really nice spots and the crowd was amazing, they were so loud for each guy it was great. The finish was sick. Best opener I can remember for ages, better than Aries/Shelley imo because of the awesome atmosphere. Joe proves he can still be a BOSS in the ring, and Aries is just Aries, he's one of the best wrestlers in the world. ******

I also watched Aries vs Bully Ray from the last PPv and that was great too, ***3/4. The spot when Ray kept chopping Aries down and he kept getting up was one of the best things I've seen in a math this year though tbh. Ray shouting 'You're crazy!' and Aries replying 'Yeah I'm crazy!' was awesome.

The way they are booking Aries is pretty amazing, they are making him look so strong, I mean beating the top heel in TNA? Damn. Aries has actually given the X title some prestige back. I also love how he is more of a tweener than a full on face, he still acts like a dick but the crowd love him so much for it so it's the right thing to keep him that way. He's so over it's insane and awesome to see.


----------



## Chismo

BUBZ said:


> Joe proves he can still be a BOSS in the ring


Always been sayin' that. People are just forgettin' how awesome Joe can be. Motivated Joe = mind blown. That's why Joe freelancing across Japan is my wet dream.


----------



## seancarleton77

Aries vs. Joe = ***3/4 - Aries is the better wrestler of the two, but Joe looked great.


----------



## Bubz

*Prince Devitt vs Pac - NJPW BOTSJ 6/6/12*
Awesome match. Sick sequences, transitions and spots, but not a spotfest at all. Seriously fun match. I was even marking out at the chain/mat work at the start because it felt unique. Devitt was great here with his facial expressions and mannerisms when Pac would kick out of something, and Pac is just insane. Finishing stretch is amazingly well executed and the crowd was great. Not sure what else to say other than if you like Jr style wrestling, this is the best this year and so much fun to watch. *****1/4*


----------



## dukenukem3do

BUBZ said:


> *Prince Devitt vs Pac - NJPW BOTSJ 6/6/12*
> Awesome match. Sick sequences, transitions and spots, but not a spotfest at all. Seriously fun match. I was even marking out at the chain/mat work at the start because it felt unique. Devitt was great here with his facial expressions and mannerisms when Pac would kick out of something, and Pac is just insane. Finishing stretch is amazingly well executed and the crowd was great. Not sure what else to say other than if you like Jr style wrestling, this is the best this year and so much fun to watch. *****1/4*


Where I can see that match


----------



## geraldinhio

dukenukem3do said:


> Where I can see that match


I second this. 

*El Generico vs Kota Ibushi DDT MAX BUMP 04.05.2012 *

I love me some Generico in DDT , as do the fans. To my knowledge this was Ibushi's return match to DDT so the crowd was very hot for both wrestlers. Lots of nice exchanges and sequences to start the match with Generico eventually getting the upperhand and starting to work over Ibushi's arm. Really different than any normal Generico match with Ibushi pretty much playing the FIP for the better part of the match. About the half way mark into the match it just gets crazy. It's balls to the wall action with some great exhanges and some crazy , sick moves between the two. It's exactly what you would expect really. Both take each others moves so great and complement each other so well. The only gripes were Ibushi forgetting the arm workover and flying around the ring like nothing happened, in his comeback he did the handspring backflip kick spot with no bother. :lmao Other than then and one little botch from Ibushi it was a great Junior match. Really enjoyed it. I recommend everyone watch Generico's DDT work, so fun. 

****+


----------



## Bubz

Seabs has the Pac/Devitt match uploaded in puro media.


----------



## ninetwentyfour

JoeRulz said:


> Always been sayin' that. People are just forgettin' how awesome Joe can be. Motivated Joe = mind blown. That's why Joe freelancing across Japan is my wet dream.


Can you blame people, though? He's been living in TNA mediocrity for YEARS. I was the biggest Joe fan around, but his "peak" period is nothing but a blip on the radar at this point. Which is really too bad. I often joke with friends about "Remember when Samoa Joe was awesome? Me neither", because his ROH-early TNA run is half the time of the crap he's done since.


----------



## MF83

Sadly, he'll never be able to do much other than Indy work in Japan since his moveset makes him the equivalent of a Eugene sans gimmick over there. Even his one original spot (bomb/crab/STF) was stolen by Sekimoto. His Misawa title match is so awkward because the fans thought he was a joke and he hasn't been back, nor did he do anything in the TNA/NJ feud for the same reason, even though their dojo trained him.


----------



## USAUSA1

Jack Evans vs. Juvi vs. Teddy Hart vs. Psicosis Cruiserweight title match, just a great spotfest. I guess I would give it a **** because it never was a dull moment, the fans ate it up and some cool moves. Plus, a surprise ending.


----------



## USAUSA1

Eddie Edwards vs. Davey Richards from SBG 6-10-12(I guess depending on the area you live in) was freakin great. My second favorite match of the year and the interference made sense. ****3/4. Hands down the best tv match of the year. Raw,Smackdown and Impact have a lot of catching up to do.

Davey Richards don't get respect but this guy is having AN ALL TIME great type year so far and there is 6 months to go.


----------



## Bubz

You can't be serious? He's had one great match and one good match and that's it imo. Is the Davey/Eddie tv match like their FB match?


----------



## MF83

Oh yeah, so I guess if you didn't read my review that I should add Taguchi vs. PAC was a very smart **** match and the BOSJ final was a stroke of luck ****+ match.


----------



## FITZ

That Joe/Aries match was awesome. Considering Aries seemed to be on the verge of retirement I'm really happy that he's having such a great run in TNA.


----------



## EmbassyForever

BUBZ said:


> You can't be serious? He's had one great match and one good match and that's it imo. Is the Davey/Eddie tv match like their FB match?


No. Amazing action, the match went like only 18 min i guess..


----------



## KingCrash

BUBZ said:


> You can't be serious? He's had one great match and one good match and that's it imo. Is the Davey/Eddie tv match like their FB match?


Kind of, but because it has to fit for tv they do cut out some of the stuff that drives people crazy. And saying Davey's having an all-time great year is blowing it way out of proportion. Good matches, sometimes cutting down on the overkill but nothing absolutely must-see besides the Steen & Elgin title matches.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Why not? so far, as i see it:

*Feud of the year - yes
*Match of the year - yes
*A lot of great matches (Steen, Lethal, Roderick and Eddie, Briscoes and more) - yes

So why not?


----------



## USAUSA1

KingCrash said:


> Kind of, but because it has to fit for tv they do cut out some of the stuff that drives people crazy. And saying Davey's having an all-time great year is blowing it way out of proportion. Good matches, sometimes cutting down on the overkill but nothing absolutely must-see besides the Steen & Elgin title matches.


It's only been 6 months and I haven't seen a wrestler in North America besides maybe Daniel Bryan that has more top notch than Davey Richards so far. 3-4 years from now when people do a retrospective they going to realize how awesome of a run he is on now.


----------



## smitlick

For anyone interested

Ratings for Slammiversary from Alvarez or Vinny not sure which assuming its Bryan

Aries vs Joe ***1/2
Styles/Angle vs Kazarian/Daniels ****

Ratings from Meltzer

Aries vs Joe ***3/4
Styles/Angle vs Kazarian/Daniels ****1/4


----------



## Bubz

USAUSA1 said:


> It's only been 6 months and I haven't seen a wrestler in North America besides maybe Daniel Bryan that has more top notch than Davey Richards so far. 3-4 years from now when people do a retrospective they going to realize how awesome of a run he is on now.


CM Punk is the US wrestler of the year imo. Great ppv matches with Jericho, a very good match with Ziggler on ppv, Bryan on ppv, two great tv matches with Henry, great tv match with Ziggler and two with Bryan, and a very good one with Kane. His performances in all of those were just great.

And considering no one cares that much about it now, I highly doubt people will look back on 2012 and think 'oh yeah, Richards was amazing that year'. He hasn't been amazing at all. The Elgin and Steen matches are the only good matches and I do think he was great in those, and possibly the Lethal tv match earlier in the year which was quite good but that's it. Most of his matches have been ridiculous and almost unwatchable to a lot of people.


----------



## EmbassyForever

But Punk's feuds are really bad. Yeah, not his fault, but you need to count it. And idk, i really enjoyed Hart Smith/Richards, Richards/Steen, Ricards/Edwards 4, all of his tag team matches were really good and many more other matches.... And he did some good things in NJPW with Rocky.


----------



## Bubz

True about Punk's feuds, but he delivers every time he goes to the ring even in tv matches, even with Kane and he's awful lol. Punk really knows how to tell a story in the ring through his expressions and selling, and imo he's doing it better than anyone in the US right now and he does it almost every time he's on tv and every time he's on ppv.


----------



## 777

USAUSA1 said:


> Jack Evans vs. Juvi vs. Teddy Hart vs. Psicosis Cruiserweight title match, just a great spotfest. I guess I would give it a **** because it never was a dull moment, the fans ate it up and some cool moves. Plus, a surprise ending.


Seconded. MOTYC thread needs more lucha libre. I love the AAA product.


----------



## Rah

I'm going to hope this is a recent match as if it's the same fourway with Evans and Juvi from March I'm going to be really disappointed in you.


----------



## 777

Rah said:


> I'm going to hope this is a recent match as if it's the same fourway with Evans and Juvi from March I'm going to be really disappointed in you.


I think March was Rey de Reyes. This one was for the cruiserweight strap. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgTUUv-ZwXE&feature=plcp


----------



## USAUSA1

it was taped on may 19th. It falls more on the WCW cruiserweight style than lucha. Jack and Juvi had nice exchanges.


----------



## Caponex75

CM Punk is far and beyond the best wrestler in the actual world right now. If I continuously watched Okada I might disagree though but he has just been so good.


----------



## Ali Dia

Caponex75 said:


> CM Punk is far and beyond the best wrestler in the actual world right now. If I continuously watched Okada I might disagree though but he has just been so good.


I guess Punk has probably had the most quality matches but at the same time he has been placed in positions to deliver. And if anything i thought his matches with Jericho on a whole were a tad of a let down. I think Bryan and Aries have been better but they havent had the same amount of opportunities as Punk to deliver. Either way the whole who is best argument is always open to anybodies interpretation.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Not a MOTYC, but Bryan/Dolph - Punk/Sheamus was a really fun little match.


----------



## darkclaudio

NJPW:
IWGP Jr Championship: Low Ki vs Prince Devitt (c) ****/****1/4
Prince Devitt vs PAC ****


----------



## SteveTheSmark

Anything with Tyson Kidd is top quality, this kid should be mixing it with the likes of Ziggler, Bryan & Punk whenever possible


----------



## EmbassyForever

*NJPW Best Of The Super Juniors 19 Day 9:*

Low Ki vs. Brian Kendrick: ***1/4
Prince Devitt vs. PAC: ****1/4 
in one week Devitt became one of my fav wrestler. Can't wait for watching the whole event.


----------



## seabs

*AJ Styles & Kurt Angle vs Daniels & Kazarian - TNA Slammiversary X*
_Super tag match. Really entertaining, well worked and a tremendous finishing stretch off the hot tag. Wanted AJ's FIP spell to be longer but it didn't hurt the match. Angle's limited in the tag format which means he can just stick to what he's best at. Looks like a beast suplexing everyone off the hot tag. Angle could easily be great again if he just stuck to working the hot tag in matches like this. AJ's SSP spot looked nuts and the execution was perfect. Set the finish up perfectly too by eliminating Daniels so nobody could make the save. Exactly what I want from a hot finish. Hectic, super spots, didn't whore out finishers or near falls and peaked as they finished._

******

*James Mason vs Zebra Kid - ASW:UK 01.06.2012*
_Simple but effective. UK scene is really great now and Mason and Allmark are right at the top of it. Shame more people aren't watching these two. ZK's really good in control of the match and brings more than enough to get a stronger match than your norm from Mason. Norm Mason matches are really good mind, hence this is great. _

******

*Finlay vs Danny Boy Collins - ASW:UK 01.06.2012*
_Like Finlay and you'll like this. Love Finlay and you'll love it. Matwork is great and then they get really rough and tough and it gets even better. Proper manly fight. Spot where Collins nips up and Finlay murders him with a clothesline was wonderful. Check out Finlay's tag with Allmark from BUTLINS that's also on Deano's YT page while you're watching this. Isn't MOTYC level but it's really good and it's more Finlay and more Allmark. Best Finlay match this year bar the Kidd match from 16 Carat._

*****+*

*Dean Allmark vs Johnny Storm - ASW:UK 01.06.2012*
_And Allmark continues his amazing year with this. He's seriously as strong of a contender for WOTY based on the first 5-6 months of the year than anyone is. If you're familiar with either guy then you know what you're getting. Technically sublime and so easy to sit through and just enjoy what they're doing. I'll put the Cruz match ahead of it but this is still the 2nd best Allmark this year imo. Maybe put some of the tags on par or just behind it._

*****1/4*

*Rowdy Ricky Knight & Jimmy Ocean vs Robbie Brookside & Frankie Sloan - ASW:UK 01.06.2012*
_Yes these are all of the same ASW:UK show. It was a Legends show too proving you can have great legends shows with great wrestling on them. This is the least of a MOTYC than the other 3 but it might be my favourite match of the year purely based on an enjoyment scale. Knight and Ocean are truly despicable heels you can't help but love to hate. Their valet Sweet Saraya is incredible too. Cuts one of the best promos of the year pre match and she's a total annoying bitch throughout the match too. Heels dominate the match up to the finish which makes the finish a stronger payoff. Goofy spots with the heels and Saraya were amazing. Wanted more from the Liverpool Lads but the Superflys more than carried it enough to make it great. Whole show is on Deano's YT page as per._

*Watched Richards/Edwrads IV too and thought it was decent which I guess means ROH fans will think it's great. Still had issues with it. Selling was inconsistent, looked too much like a choreographed dance routine at times rather than a wrestling match and the finish was terrible but it didn't offend me to the point I regretted watching it. Less than 20 minutes air time too which I guess helps. I still want Kevin Kelly to die though.*


----------



## EmbassyForever

Thanks for the link. Looks interesting.


----------



## Bubz

Davey/Eddie 4 was ok I guess, still had way to much stupid shit in it though. Especially when compared to the final battle match it was quite enjoyable.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Sheamus vs. Dolph Ziggler was really good, but the finish was so predictable and made me feel like it was on of their TV matches..


----------



## Rickey

WWE No Way Out 2012

CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Kane

Shout outs to: Sheamus vs. Dolph Ziggler and Christian vs. Cody Rhodes(crowd was hot for Ziggler/Shaemus but kinda dead for Christian/Cody probably because they just weren't invested in it. I enjoyed it though and the finishing sequence was cool too.)


----------



## Bubz

*WWE No Way Out*

*Punk vs Bryan vs Kane*
Great triple threat match and lots of fun. Each guy played their roles well, and I liked the structure of the match with Kane being the big guy that kept getting taken out of the equation. Good work over segment by Kane on Punk's ribs. The finishing stretch was going great until Bryan got completely taken out of it in the last few minutes which kind of lost some of the steam the match had picked up. Still a great match and Punk and Bryan both deliver on ppv yet again. Kane was also really good in this. ******

Sheamus/Ziggler was great to. ***3/4, would have been **** if the finish was better.

Christian/Cody seemed really good from what I saw but I wasn't paying full attention.


----------



## ddog121

Sheamus v. Ziggler ***3/4, couple of botches towards the middle but it was a hot opener.
Punk v. Bryan v. Kane ****, Punk and Bryan owned this, Kane had his best match since his return.


----------



## seancarleton77

Punk/Kane/Bryan was really good.


----------



## wee bru

I think i preferred the Dolph vs Sheamus match to the Triple threat. I know you are saying there were some botches but they kind of added to the intensity of the match. Dolph is a fucking star though. 2 very high quality matches, not sure either really makes it into MOTY contention though.

Cody vs Christian was also very good.


----------



## Ali Dia

Ziggler/Sheamus barely scrapes good in my book. ***
Triple threat was fun. ***1/2


----------



## Cactus

*WWE No Way Out 2012*

*Christian vs Cody Rhodes*
_Christian's selective selling of his arm stopped this from going into the 'great' territory. He sold the arm well enough in the opening sections of the match to keep me satisfied until the finishing stretch and what a finishing stretch it was. Plenty of finisher teases and a great false finish._
*Rating: ★★★½*

*CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane*
_Plenty of believable near-falls and they managed to take my mind of the stuff with AJ long enough so it was a surprise when she finally appeared. Punk and Bryan were the stars here and Kane can have a good showing in the right circumstances, and this was one example. _
*Rating: ★★★¾*

*Big Show vs John Cena (Steel Cage)*
_I know I'm in the minority but I really enjoyed this match. Things started off slow but it established Show as a monster and Cena as the underdog. It's your typical formulaic Cena performance spiced up with some sweet bumping from both men. This really gets good around the time the interference happens. Overbooked fun that will leave you wondering what will happen next._
*Rating: ★★★½*


----------



## seabs

*WWE No Way Out 2012*

*Sheamus vs Dolph Ziggler*
_****+_

*Christian vs Cody Rhodes*
_***3/4+_

*CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane*
_***1/2_


----------



## EmbassyForever

WWE No Way Out 2012:

Sheamus vs Dolph Ziggler - ***1/4
Christian vs Cody Rhodes - **3/4
CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane - ***1/2
Big Show vs John Cena - *3/4


----------



## Chismo

Nothing from No Way Out entered the *** territory, IMO... Fella/Ziggler and the 3-Way were pretty close, though.


----------



## Emperor DC

Sheamus really is so fucking good. Very underrated. How funny that in terms of how he's treated by the crowd, he's been hurt worse by the 18 seconds at 'Mania than Dragon has been.


----------



## TelkEvolon

DeeCee said:


> Sheamus really is so fucking good. Very underrated.


He is? For what?


----------



## Violent By Design

I thought Ziggler vs Sheamus was easily the MOTN. The triple threat didn't seem very interesting. Pretty poor synergy, typical 1 v 1s with one guy dead, Kane was just unnecessary and he was so notably unover that it hurt my viewing of it.


----------



## seabs

*Luke Gallows vs Charlie Dreamer - OSF 07.04.2012*
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4y6ybeWFlw

Super around the arena brawl. Gallows looks totally badass and destructive and Dreamer's a great babyface too. Feels really uncooperative but in a good way of course and they get the desperation of fighting for their lives over really well. Really well structured for an unstructured brawl. Super spot where Gallows slides a bin into Dreamer and it takes his legs out and he splats on the floor. I'm not always a fan of arena brawls but Gallows has shown he's great at them since his release and this is the best brawl of 2012 so far for me. Preferred it to the Gallows/Davis brawls from last year too that nobody on here ever watched. _

*****+*


----------



## EmbassyForever

NJPW Best of the Super Jr's:
Low Ki vs. Ryusuke Taguchi ****
Low Ki vs. Prince Devitt ***1/2
PAC vs. Prince Devitt ****1/4
PAC vs. Jushin Liger - ***1/4 (not a MOTYC but still good match(
Brian Kendrick vs. Low Ki - ***1/2
NXT 2012/06/20 - Tyson Kidd vs Michael McGillicutty - ***1/2


----------



## seabs

*Daisuke Sekimoto & Yuji Okabayashi vs Yoshihito Sasaki & Shinya Ishikawa - BJW 25.05.2012*
_You know the routine by now. Loved the extra little touches they do in this. Stuff like Ishikawa not leaving his hands open for Okbayashi to stamp on them, Oka fighting his way out of a snapmare and Ishikawa teasing stopping the body slams of doom. Yoshihito, please don't headbutt people like that again. Sasaki/Okabayashi is gonna rule as long as Sasaki doesn't knock himself loopy for the finish again._

******


----------



## Bubz

Seabs said:


> *Daisuke Sekimoto & Yuji Okabayashi vs Yoshihito Sasaki & Shinya Ishikawa - BJW 25.05.2012*
> _You know the routine by now. Loved the extra little touches they do in this. Stuff like Ishikawa not leaving his hands open for Okbayashi to stamp on them, Oka fighting his way out of a snapmare and Ishikawa teasing stopping the body slams of doom. Yoshihito, please don't headbutt people like that again. Sasaki/Okabayashi is gonna rule as long as Sasaki doesn't knock himself loopy for the finish again._
> 
> ******


Honestly Sasaki needs to calm down on the stiffness imo. It's insane sometimes.


----------



## Chismo

BUBZ said:


> Honestly Sasaki needs to calm down on the stiffness imo. It's insane sometimes.


No fucking way.


----------



## Bubz

JoeRulz said:


> No fucking way.


Dunno, there's just a few times I've cringed because he just full on headbutt's people and you can literally hear the cracks. Pretty silly, especially in a staged sport imo.


----------



## USAUSA1

NWA ANARCHY HEAVYWEIGHT TITLE
STEEL CAGE MATCH from NWA Anarchy episode 333
SHAWN TEMPERS VS AZRAEL

This match was just bloody, these guys held nothing back. This whole NWA Anarchy vs. NWA Elite feud is too intense. 

*** for the match itself, **** for the intensity and importance of the match to the storyline.


----------



## seabs

*Have you seen the headbutt from that match BUBZ?*


----------



## Bubz

Nah I haven't gotten around to that show yet, was planning on watching some stuff from the last few AJ shows first. I'm guessing it was pretty bad?


----------



## seabs

*He fucks himself up silly. Busts himself wide open HUGE.*


----------



## Last Chancery

Caught the AAW show tonight and honestly, Davey/Sami was pretty good but not MOTYC material for me. There was a lot of energy there and things got pretty stiff at times, as it should between these two, but it felt a little.. flat. Like they both were trying hard to make it work, but at maybe 80 to 90 percent capacity. It's not atypical for bigger names to give less due to the lessened expectations of a smaller indy's crowd -- some worse than others in this regard -- but, yeah, it wasn't the wild, all out match it might have been in PWG or some other top-flight indy promotion. And maybe it's my fault for believing it would be, I don't know. I mean, I enjoyed the match, loved the atmosphere, and the in-ring action was actually fairly solid. But at the same time, perhaps I expected more?

I will say, the show was main evented by an insane six-man tag match between Silas Young and the Irish Airborne vs. BJ Whitmer/Jimmy Jacobs/Arik Cannon, and it was everything I expected and more. None of those six guys are that big of names but the match felt huge. Whitmer had his face cut open and there was plenty of back-and-forth to keep the crowd on its feet the entire time. It was a crazy, sprawling brawl and it told a great story. The Whitmer/Jacobs blood feud really impacted it, and there was this constant questioning of whether or not that team could keep it together long enough to pull out a W. Silas's heel work was top notch, and it's only getting better, and as great as the atmosphere was for Davey/Sami, I'd be remiss if I said the atmosphere produced in the six-man tag wasn't better.

Richards vs. Callihan: ***1/4
Silas/Irish Airborne vs. Whitmer/Jacobs/Cannon: ***3/4

Neither MOTYC from a classical standpoint, but fairly good for local indy standards. I'd definitely check out that main event if you're interested in seeing some wild brawling with a little story tossed in.


----------



## Certified G

For those of you who care, CZW's Blk Jeez/Sabian got squashed alongside some other jobber by Ryback on this weeks Smackdown.


----------



## seabs

*Damien Wayne vs Chris Escobar - VCW 02.06.2012*
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCkuJg6V6Dw

Has plenty of flashy Indy style spots but they structure this well and it's nicely paced out. They do a great job of working as equals and going back and forth without it ever being silly and infuriating. Wayne's wheelbarrow spot was cool. Really liked how he kicked Escobar in the gut while he was tied up in the tree of woe to set up the top rope leg drop. Looked much better than Ki's phony stomp from the same position where the other guy just sits perfectly in position for the spot rather than just falling down in the tree so Ki can't hit the move. Some of Escobar's stuff could be a bit smoother and a tad tighter but it's fine. Finish is the best part of the match which put a huge smile on my face. Represents the match perfectly I thought. Dug this a lot._

*****+*


----------



## USAUSA1

Seabs said:


> *Damien Wayne vs Chris Escobar - VCW 02.06.2012*
> _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCkuJg6V6Dw
> 
> Has plenty of flashy Indy style spots but they structure this well and it's nicely paced out. They do a great job of working as equals and going back and forth without it ever being silly and infuriating. Wayne's wheelbarrow spot was cool. Really liked how he kicked Escobar in the gut while he was tied up in the tree of woe to set up the top rope leg drop. Looked much better than Ki's phony stomp from the same position where the other guy just sits perfectly in position for the spot rather than just falling down in the tree so Ki can't hit the move. Some of Escobar's stuff could be a bit smoother and a tad tighter but it's fine. Finish is the best part of the match which put a huge smile on my face. Represents the match perfectly I thought. Dug this a lot._
> 
> *****+*


Damien Wayne been great for years. Check out his matches with Scotty Blaze and Sean Denny.


----------



## Chismo

*CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan (WWE, Over The Limit 2012)*

Fantastic match really. I was shocked to see them working stiff style like that, kudos. It was nice to see something like that in WWE (aside Lesnar/Cena), they wrestled a grand Junior style match, with a ton of reverseals, and fast back-and-forht action. Bryan is insanely over, so he needs to turn face ASAP, and his YES! shtick is making him a legit superstar, they need to pull the trigger with the man, ffs. They told a simple story about knowing each other so well, and the strategies and game plans were simple and effective - Punk was going after DBD's leg, and DBD was going after Punk's ribs. I loved the finish, Bryan looked damn strong there. To sum up, this was fantastic, and we need to see them going 1-on-1 again. MOTY(C), no doubt about it.
*Rating: ****1/2*


----------



## seancarleton77

The Corre said:


> For those of you who care, CZW's Blk Jeez/Sabian got squashed alongside some other jobber by Ryback on this weeks Smackdown.


I care, watching sub average wrestlers getting squashed is the most fun you can have with your pants on.


----------



## Bruce L

*Tyson Kidd & Justin Gabriel vs. Heath Slater & Johnny Curtis* - NXT, 6/6
*Tyson Kidd & Justin Gabriel vs. Tyler Reks & Curt Hawkins* - Superstars, 6/21

The Kidd/Gabriel team is quite possibly my favorite thing in WWE right now, at least from an in-ring perspective. I don't know what, if anything, it's going to take to get them a better spot on the card, but I'd love to see them as champs sooner than later.


----------



## Shepard

*Seth Rollins vs Dean Ambrose - Florida Heavyweight Championship. FCW 6.24.12*

This match is really great, the chemistry these two have together is absolutely fantastic and it's on par with their work last year imo. Ambrose completely shines in this for me and the way he works this shows just how much he's improved since first going to FCW. The early armwork on Rollins is really well done and shows how technically sound Dean has become. Some of the shoulder work looks really painful too and I think it might be a callback to some previous match they had where Rollins had an injured shoulder and Ambrose did something similar. Ambrose essentially works two different styles for the match which is really great to see and shows how versatile he's become. Selling from both men is a delight to watch to and they really put over the battle wounds which adds to an awesome finishing stretch. Really, really good match and it seemed to fly by for me.

Oh and Regal on commentary was an absolute treat. The way he progresses from the beginning to the end from the hollow shell of what he once was, admiring Ambrose but not wanting to go anywhere near him to slowly becoming more involved in the match and remembering when he fought Dean to the end where he openly admits he wants one more go at Ambrose is superb and really adds to the match imo. He's probably my favourite commentator at the moment.

*****1/4*


----------



## seancarleton77

The Kidd vs. McGillicutty series was all ***3/4 - ****1/4


----------



## Violent By Design

could someone PM me a link to Sara Del Rey vs El Generico?


----------



## Kid Kablam

Haven't had a chance to sit down and write for a while, so here it goes:

*No Way Out, key matchups*

*John Cena vs Big Show*
If anyone wants to see why Cena/Lesnar was such a breath of fresh air, watch this match. There's a lot to like, especially early on when Big Show first misses his first attempt at the WMD, but unlike the Lesnar match, the scent of danger and unpredictability is gone from the air. It's a basic story that Cena does well, but once we hit the extended beatdown segment, it turns into the match we expected: Big Show hits a move, Cena writhes in agony, Big Show yells. Rinse, repeat. They set up the WMD well, and the announcing team does a pretty good job of selling the danger in body blows, but this is all storytelling 101 stuff that has been around since King Kong Bundy and even for a Big man destroys little(er) man match, there's a lot of wandering around. Cena, of course, times his comebacks well, hitting his flurries of offense and drawing pops from the crowd, which is what makes Cena the babyface champion that he is (good or bad. Take your pick). 

Annnnd then the overbooking begins, and this thing goes to hell. First we get Johnny trying to intercept Cena, McMahon intercepting Johnny, Johnny taking McMahon down. Fine. Ok. Makes sense, that's what McMahon would have done to Austin or Rock. But then things get screwy as Big Show nails the ref, and then nails Cena. Clean. Big Show has an opportunity to win. Clean.

In the WWE universe,apparently, one heelish action by the authority figure justifies a "by any means necessary" approach for the rest of the match on the part of the babyface. Nevermind that Show never did anything dirty. So...because Johnny cheated at one point in the match, interference from Brodus, Alex Rielly, Santino, and finally Kofi, is not only ok, but moral. We can cheer the AA Cena hits. We can cheer the race between Big Show and Cena to get to the floor, all because Johnny did one rotten thing, thereby justifying the faces blatantly cheating. And that, Ladies and gentlemen, is the moral code of your WWE.

I'm going to have to go *** 1/2 *on this one. Cena and Show put on a perfectly acceptable match with all the necessary spots to make it a main event, but the warped double standards that have plagued John Cena's run at the top once again reared their ugly head. Lesnar/Cena had a terrible ending, but it was still better than this crap. 

*Bryan/Kane/Show*
Fun, fun match, but whereas Cena/Show was morally confused, this one was thematically confused. Was the story Punk/Bryan/AJ with Kane as an added player, or Punke/Kane/AJ with Bryan as an added player. Early on, the match plays like it's Punk/Bryan, but the ending eliminates Bryan from the equation all together. Odd. Early on, the chemistry between Bryan and Punk is fantastic. The way they communicate with each other, and the way the switch so seamlessly from tag partners (when they are mutually targeting Kane) back to enemies is great. Not too much to say about the action as it's what you expect: tight, crisp, and doesn't leave much breathing room. This is how you do a triple threat match. Kane looks good as well, hitting a low drop kick on Punk near the post (he would also hit a seated dropkick on Daniel Bryan on the next night's Raw. As people have noted in other posts, he's looking VERY motivated). It's good to see Kane moving that well again. All the little things are there, such as how CM Punk grabs Daniel Bryan by both his ears to yell "NO!" It's a nice little match with some cool spots such as the battle over the right to superplex Bryan. That spot returns later as Bryan tries to superplex Punk, but then Kane pulls him into an Electric Chair position, allowing Punk to Hit a Doomsday device. THAT's how you do a call back.

All the problems people have with ending I share. DB dissapears for a good 3 minutes, which was probably seen as a way to protect him when they came up with it, relegates him to the sidelines in reality. I've only come to this conclusion in seeing how the story played out over the past two Raws, where Kane has basically been written out of the story. It's a good example how booking doesn't always translate from theory to practice, and how there are frequently good intentions behind questionable booking decisions. I like this match lots, but it feels like a transition match, and not a real match. Kind of like a very good Raw Main Event. Can't go higher the **** 1/2*.

*Ziggler vs Sheamus*
Match of the Night. Not a question in my mind on that. I know that some of it feels stilted, with Dolph bringing Sheamus' momentum to a halt with sleeper holds, but I think that's the right story, and they tell it fantastically. One of Ziggler's great talents is going from 0 to sixty. He'll look like he has no chance one minute, and then he'll turn on the juice very similar to what I remember from Randy Savage. I'm a sucker for crowds turning a guy "face" during a match, and that's exactly what happened here. I especially like how Lawler had to try and cover up the "Let's go Ziggler" chants by claiming they were chanting "Let's Go Sheamus!" Ziggler, like Bryan, is going to go forward as a tweener in that he will be a heel in storyline terms, but a clear face for much of the crowd. You're going to be seeing a lot of that as WWE moves forward, and I think it may be the best thing for them. Ziggler is the clear ring general here, but Sheamus keeps up with him just fine, and is clearly improving as he works with talents like Ziggler and Bryan. In a couple years, maybe even as little as 1, I think Sheamus will be the wrestler WWE wants him to be. I have no problems with that as long as they let guys lik Ziggler shine along with him.
**** 3/4*

*Christian vs Cody*
I don't get it. I like both of these wrestlers. Cody is my favorite mid card talent (that excludes upper midcarders like Ziggler and Bryan) and yet there's nothing for me really to grab onto here. The action was crisp, they hit their spots, they went back and forth, fighting with expert timing, but something was missing. I think in the end, the problems lies with them working a WWE style match, with no real WWE storyline. All of this would have killed if there was a build to it, and not just the unfocused rantings that Cody has been reduced to as of late. All the dramatic pauses, dramatic reversals, and dramatic moments were there, but there were no real stakes, so all the drama was theoretical in nature. Like they were teaching a class. Where as Sheamus/Ziggler gave me hope that WWE can handle its talent, this match just bummed me out to no end and confirmed my belief that talent needs management and creative to put it in position to succeed.

*** 1/2-****. Take your pick.

Over all this show was kind of a reversal of Over The Limit. Over the Limit was a huge surprise where every match delivered more than I expected. That was a great card with a little bit for everyone and with booking that made sense (I'm excluding all these compliments from the main event. That was terrible). No Way Out provided exactly what was expected, with no pleasant surprises, and with all the booking I feared. It was grim professionalism, with enough excitement to keep the crowd entertained, but without anything to truly cherish. Only the past two Raws and a fantastic Smackdown have helped keep me optimistic. The subsequent Bryan/Punk/Kane matches have alleviated my concerns over the ending here, and their collective chemistry continues to impress.

Thumbs in the middle show. Filler PPV.


----------



## dukenukem3do

CZW Cinco de mayo- Sami Calihan vs Drake Younger 2 out of 3 falls match ****


----------



## Schorschi

Hi, 
does anybody have a list of his/her best matches of the year so far?
Sadly I had almost no time to watch wrestling this year and don´t have time to make my own list out of this thread. Would be great if anybody could help me. =)


----------



## Manu_Styles

*ROH Best In The World 2012*

*Hybrid Rules:* Adam Cole vs Kyle O´Reilly: ****1/2
*TV Title 3 Way:* Rodercik Strong vs Jay Lethal vs Tommaso Ciampa: ***3/4
*Anything Goes Match:* Kevin Steen vs Davey Richards: ****1/2


----------



## Zatiel

Schorschi said:


> Hi,
> does anybody have a list of his/her best matches of the year so far?
> Sadly I had almost no time to watch wrestling this year and don´t have time to make my own list out of this thread. Would be great if anybody could help me. =)


I need to re-watch Lesnar/Cena and Richards/Elgin to evaluate where they really belong, but they kind of rule my list right now.

1. Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena - Extreme Rules
2. Daniel Bryan vs. CM Punk – WWE Over the Limit
3. Kazuchika Okada Vs. Tetsuya Naito – NJPW 4/3
4. Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus 2/3 Falls - Extreme Rules
5. Kana Vs. Syuri - SMASH 2/23
6. Davey Richards Vs. Michael Elgin – ROH Showdown in the Sun Night 2
7. Hiroshi Tanahashi Vs. Minoru Suzuki – Wrestle Kingdom 67
8. Akira Tozawa & BxB Hulk Vs. Jimmy Susumu & Jimmy Kagetora – Dragon Gate Infinity 252
9. Shingo Takagi Vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima - Diamond Ring 2/11
10. CIMA Vs. PAC – Dragon Gate Infinity 252
11. Kurt Angle & AJ Styles Vs. Daniels & Kazarian – TNA Slammiversary
12. CM Punk Vs. Chris Jericho – Wrestlemania
13. Austin Aries Vs. Samoa Joe – TNA Slammiversary
14. El Generico & Harashima Vs. Kenny Omega & KUDO - DDT
15. Daniel Bryan Vs. CM Punk - Live Smackdown (Restart-Mania, but they worked harder every time)
16. Kenny Omega Vs. Hiroshi Yamato - AJPW 1/3
17. Shingo Takagi Vs. Akira Tozawa – No Ropes Match from Dragon Gate Infinity 251
18. Low Ki Vs. El Generico - EVOLVE 11
19. Kenny Omega Vs. Shuji Kondo - AJPW Pro Wrestling Love in Ryogoku Vol 14
20. Low Ki Vs. Jon Davis EVOLVE 13
21. Davey Richards Vs. Kevin Steen – ROH: Border Wars
22. Austin Aries vs Alex Shelley - TNA Against All Odds
23. El Generico Vs. Kevin Steen – ROH Showdown in the Sun Night 1
24. Kota Ibushi vs El Generico - DDT 4/5
25. Kazuchika Okada Vs. Hirooki Goto – NJPW Wrestling Dontaku 3/5
26. Daniel Bryan vs Big Show - No DQ Match - Smackdown January 6
27. Undertaker Vs. HHH -Hell in a Cell, Wrestlemania 28
28. Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yuji Okabayashi - BJW 2/26


----------



## geraldinhio

*Adam Cole vs Kyle O' Reilly ROH Best In The World 2012 *

I wasn't expecting much here to be honest. Oh how I was wrong, breakout match for both. The hybrid rules actually worked in favour , open fists were sick. It was under 15 minutes too for such a great match. These two have fantastic chemistry that didn't really show as much in their previous encounters , this one blew their other matches out of the water. Everyone knows Cole is great but Kyle was immense here too. I'm not a massive fan of Kyle at all but this match one me over. Just an awesome match crazy as hell, fans were crazy into it, peaked at the right time with a great gradual build up from great reversals and limb workovers just to a crazy all out BLOODY war of vicious kicks ,palm thrusts , closed hand punches, headbutts etc More importantly the right guy went over. Didn't want to give away anyone of the spots or anything but just watch this match. Better than Elgin vs Richards and both Steen vs Richards IMO. Great stuff from both men and for me ROH's MOTY. 

****1/2

Maybe I'm biased here because I wasn't expecting this at all.


----------



## Certified G

Looks like I'm going to have to watch that match asap, it sounds awesome. I really like Adam Cole though I'm not a big fan of Kyle O' Reilly, in fact I don't like him at all. Definitely anticipating watching that match, hopefully Kyle can win me over too.

EDIT: CZW's Blk Jeez is having a good month. First he gets match on WWE Smackdown (a squash match against Ryback but whatever lol), and he just wrestled some guy I didn't know on Impact Wrestling in an X-Division match. On that same show Jigsaw wrestled under the name Rubix against Sonjay Dutt btw..


----------



## Kid Kablam

geraldinhio said:


> *Adam Cole vs Kyle O' Reilly ROH Best In The World 2012 *
> 
> I wasn't expecting much here to be honest. Oh how I was wrong, breakout match for both. The hybrid rules actually worked in favour , open fists were sick. It was under 15 minutes too for such a great match. These two have fantastic chemistry that didn't really show as much in their previous encounters , this one blew their other matches out of the water. Everyone knows Cole is great but Kyle was immense here too. I'm not a massive fan of Kyle at all but this match one me over. Just an awesome match crazy as hell, fans were crazy into it, peaked at the right time with a great gradual build up from great reversals and limb workovers just to a crazy all out BLOODY war of vicious kicks ,palm thrusts , closed hand punches, headbutts etc More importantly the right guy went over. Didn't want to give away anyone of the spots or anything but just watch this match. Better than Elgin vs Richards and both Steen vs Richards IMO. Great stuff from both men and for me ROH's MOTY.
> 
> ****1/2
> 
> Maybe I'm biased here because I wasn't expecting this at all.


I wasn't into until Cole started working O'Reilly in the corner. Up until that point it felt like they were trying too hard to work in everything. Once the stiffing started I was a huge fan of it. Like Cena vs Brock, this is a unique match that is worth checking out for the "ho-leeeee shit" factor which is very high. 

****1/4 for the entire match
****3/4 for the last 10 minutes alone.


----------



## Manu_Styles

ROH Unity

Young Bucks vs Bravado Brothers: ****
*NO DQ:* Kevin Steen & Jimmy Jacobs vs El Generico & BJ Withmer: ****1/4
*ROH World Tag Team Championship Match:* The Briscoes(c) vs Hallowicked & Jigsaw: ***3/4

ROH Rising Above 2012

*Two out of Three Falls:* Jay Lethal vs. Roderick Strong: ***3/4
*ROH World Championship:* Davey Richards vs Adam Cole: ****1/4


----------



## Caponex75

Richards vs. Steen ****1/4+

O'Reily vs. Cole ****1/4


----------



## seabs

*Finlay vs Martin Kirby - SWE 4everevolution*
_Impossible for a Finlay fan not to love this imo. Vintage Finlay throughout. Great matwork which then leads into Finlay killing this kid in his innovative ways. Spots in the second half of the match look brutal and Kirby to his credit plays his own part really well in making them look extra brutal. Works the "Finlay match" really well too and is able to dish out some Finlay type spots on the floor too which were cool. Pretty much an extended squash because Kirby never gets much offence in but he gets enough in and takes a strong enough beating that he gets himself over without actually doing too much. 3rd best Finlay Indy match for me behind the Steen and Kidd matches._

*****+*

*Max Angelus vs Nick Riley vs Robbie X - SWE 4everevolution*
_This is why I love Indies. 3 relatively unknown dudes coming out for a match with no expectations and delivering a great match. They do a spot early on where Robbie takes an elbow and they stop the match to take him out and sell it like it knocked him loopy. At first I brought it as legit but judging by the finish and how long it went after he came back in I'm pretty certain it was a glorious work. Best part was Angelus and Riley selling it in the ring by asking the ref what they do now and working worked improvised spots. Crowd really get behind Robbie when he comes back in and his style fits his role in this match perfectly. Spotty but in a good way and it's always easier to do spotty matches with more than 2 guys in there. Finish plays off the elbow spot I talked about which I loved._

*****1/4*


----------



## Kid Kablam

Seabs, who is that stunning girl in your sig?


----------



## seabs

*Frankie Sandford.*


----------



## EmbassyForever

ROH Rising Above: 
Adam Cole vs Davey Richards - ****
Jay Lethal vs Roderick Strong - ***3/4

ROH Best In The World: 
Adam Cole vs Kyle O'Reilly - ****1/4
Kevin Steen vs Davey Richards - ****1/2

ROH Unity:
Team Chikara vs The Briscoes - ***3/4
The Bravados vs Young Bucks - ****
El Genrico and BJ Whitmer vs Kevin Steen and Jimmy Jacobs - ****


----------



## seabs

*Adam Cole vs Kyle O'Reilly - Stupid Fight Like Men Rules Match - ROH HOSTAGE CRISIS 2012*
_Yeah I'm calling it Hostage Crisis because ROH gave me the option to be different. Anyway this is good but it's not great. Thought they started off well with some small limb work but they never really got going and then it fell really flat right before Cole gut busted. THEN it really picked up because in a rare moment of sanity the NY crowd starting caring about the match because they saw blood and Cole reacted to is brilliantly by adapting his game to the blood. Suddenly the shitty strike sequences felt more intense and hateful and less spotty. Finish is a big LIKE. Liked the post match too. Made Kyle look like a massive prick so well done. Nigel's incredible during this too. Looks like he's finally got over the early issues. You can tell he cares about everything so much and it pays off in a massive way, particularity in this match. _

****3/4*

*Kevin Steen vs Davey Richards - ROH World Championship - Whatever they're calling a No Rules Match These Days - ROH HOSTAGE CRISIS 2012*
_Really enjoyed this. Starts off hot and never slows down which basically doesn't give them much time for much shit to kick in. Didn't think either guy was great in it but it felt chaotic enough and not offensive enough for me to really like all of it. This Steen angle has been executed so poorly but if you try and imagine that Steen is this evil dude taking your beloved company hostage and going against everything it stands for then this is booked pretty well with the ref bumps, Cruise getting superkicked and Corino taking out Cornette. Feels like a total chaotic panic to get your title back from the evil crew with no morals. Davey taking out Sinclair coming back to cost him was great. Corino taking out Cornette felt big. God Corino was great on commentary. Seriously doubt if I would have liked it more than the average match without Corino on commentary and maybe even Nigel too.



"Davey's in a terrible place right here" 
"Yeah NY really does stink"

Click to expand...





DO YOU KISS YOUR BOYFRIEND WITH THAT MOUTH.

Click to expand...

Corino's always great. That reminds me, O'Reilly's promo before the match was really great. He's a super prick. Better than the BW match and any other ROH match this year bar Davey/Elgin. Please bring Necro in to work this same match with Steen._

******


----------



## New Blood

Has anyone seen this thread:
http://board.deathvalleydriver.com/index.php?showtopic=58507

There's some seriously great stuff that's flying under everyone's radars.


----------



## Caponex75

Their ROH thread is retarded :lmao "OMG CROSSFACES MEAN BENOIT TRIBUTE".


----------



## New Blood

Caponex75 said:


> Their ROH thread is retarded :lmao "OMG CROSSFACES MEAN BENOIT TRIBUTE".


I liked Goodhelmet's response: "After reading more feedback from you guys, it seems like the idea they were doing a Benoit tribute in the ring was way off base. It's just ROH continuing to be lame."

ROH really has sucked for a good 2 years now. Then again, the American Indie scene, except for some indies in the south, is just bad. I think more could be learned from watching Memphis and USWA tapes then whatever move-tastic promotion that's out there.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

*El Generico vs. Samuray Del Sol
EVOLVE 14: Generico vs. Del Sol- 2012*

-Fantastic match between these guys, I've said for the past 3 years ever since I met Del Sol and saw him perform that all he needed was an opportunity and it was showcased here. Lots of fantastic spots, great back and forth and lots of lucha libre influenced offense from both guys. The spots, sequences and reversals in this match were absolutely insane and the drama building towards the end was well executed. These two put on the best 16 minutes of the year.
_______

*El Generico vs. Samuray Del Sol
EVOLVE 15: Gargano vs. Taylor- 2012*

-There are very few people that can put on back to back MOTYC but these two did. This was paced a bit better than their match prior but still just as good. I really liked the where Generico missed the Yakuza Kick and SDS hit that crazy dive to the outside and that Code Red he hit on Generico while standing on his back. The second half of the match was equally insane with lots of crazy spots and sequences and throughout of all that they built towards the big finish. Absolutely Excellent Excellent Excellent.


----------



## USAUSA1

New Blood said:


> I liked Goodhelmet's response: "After reading more feedback from you guys, it seems like the idea they were doing a Benoit tribute in the ring was way off base. It's just ROH continuing to be lame."
> 
> ROH really has sucked for a good 2 years now. Then again, the American Indie scene, except for some indies in the south, is just bad. I think more could be learned from watching Memphis and USWA tapes then whatever move-tastic promotion that's out there.


I think you kind of contradicting yourself because ROH today is more like USWA compare to it was 2-5 years ago when it was the "smark workrate" promotion. 

You should watch more NWA Anarchy, NWA Smoky Mountain and TCW. Go to the internet match thread on that website, Dean reviews most of the matches.


----------



## Chismo

USAUSA1 said:


> I think you kind of contradicting yourself because ROH today is more like USWA compare to it was 2-5 years ago when it was the "smark workrate" promotion.
> 
> You should watch more NWA Anarchy, NWA Smoky Mountain and TCW. Go to the internet match thread on that website, Dean reviews most of the matches.


I like NWA Smoky Mountain, they scream OLD SCHOOL, their YT weeklies are very nice, and they have CHASE OWENS.


----------



## USAUSA1

JoeRulz said:


> I like NWA Smoky Mountain, they scream OLD SCHOOL, their YT weeklies are very nice, and they have CHASE OWENS.


Can't wait to see the TWO RINGS WARGAMES match from this weekend. Hopefully it's pop up on the internet because I am afraid to order DVD's from NWA promotions(heard bad stories).


----------



## seabs

*I've ordered from NWA Smoky Mountain last year and didn't have any issues.*

*Yuji Hino vs Kota Ibushi - KO-D Openweight Championship - DDT 24.06.2012*
_Good god this was incredible. Hino might me by new favourite wrestler. Absolutely incredible performance from him here. Such an amazing dominant champion performance. He's in control of the whole match and all of Ibushi's attempted comebacks get cut off short. Strikes like a motherfucker and he does the almost imppossible job of having multiple great strike sequences in 2012. Spots where he puts his arms behind his back and tells Ibushi to give him everything and then just lariats Ibishi back down when he gives him everything are incredible. Thought his arm selling was really good too. Subtle enough to still make him look dominant but at the same time make him look human. Ibushi's well and truly back now and he's perfect for this role, taking a beating and making short flurried comebacks. DDT crowd is obviously gonna be nuts for Ibushi anyway but it's a given when you have a match like this and Hino flipping them off at every point. There's 2 spots which get slightly fluffed but they're the only downpoints on a fucking incredible match. First one Hino recovers from really well by selling the arm as reason for not catching Ibushi cleanly and then just flipping the crowd off some more. Gonna spoiler tag for the finish for those who want to watch it unspoiled.


Spoiler: Finish



Ibushi's new finisher is incredible and the fact he did it on Hino is nuts. As good a move as any to finish off a guy like Hino. Shame that Hino fell a bit on the top rope and they had to get him back up but in a way it also added more tension to the finish. Post match with Hino is brilliant too. Sucks that Hino didn't get more of a reign but with their Budokan show coming up the only option was to put the belt on Ibushi if they didn't want that show to flop.


Edges out Naito/Okada and Suwama/Nagata as my new MOTY._

*****1/2+*


----------



## blink_41sum_182

Seabs said:


> *I've ordered from NWA Smoky Mountain last year and didn't have any issues.*
> 
> *Yuji Hino vs Kota Ibushi - KO-D Openweight Championship - DDT 24.06.2012*
> _Good god this was incredible. Hino might me by new favourite wrestler. Absolutely incredible performance from him here. Such an amazing dominant champion performance. He's in control of the whole match and all of Ibushi's attempted comebacks get cut off short. Strikes like a motherfucker and he does the almost imppossible job of having multiple great strike sequences in 2012. Spots where he puts his arms behind his back and tells Ibushi to give him everything and then just lariats Ibishi back down when he gives him everything are incredible. Thought his arm selling was really good too. Subtle enough to still make him look dominant but at the same time make him look human. Ibushi's well and truly back now and he's perfect for this role, taking a beating and making short flurried comebacks. DDT crowd is obviously gonna be nuts for Ibushi anyway but it's a given when you have a match like this and Hino flipping them off at every point. There's 2 spots which get slightly fluffed but they're the only downpoints on a fucking incredible match. First one Hino recovers from really well by selling the arm as reason for not catching Ibushi cleanly and then just flipping the crowd off some more. Gonna spoiler tag for the finish for those who want to watch it unspoiled.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Finish
> 
> 
> 
> Ibushi's new finisher is incredible and the fact he did it on Hino is nuts. As good a move as any to finish off a guy like Hino. Shame that Hino fell a bit on the top rope and they had to get him back up but in a way it also added more tension to the finish. Post match with Hino is brilliant too. Sucks that Hino didn't get more of a reign but with their Budokan show coming up the only option was to put the belt on Ibushi if they didn't want that show to flop.
> 
> 
> Edges out Naito/Okada and Suwama/Nagata as my new MOTY._
> 
> *****1/2+*


Link?


----------



## antoniomare007

Spoiler: Ibushi vs Hino



IIRC it's the 2nd time Ibushi uses that finisher, the first time was vs Harashima for his first KO-D title reign.


----------



## EmbassyForever

EVOLVE 14:
El Generico vs. Samuray Del Sol - ***1/2


----------



## Groovemachine

Finally got to see El Generico vs Sara Del Rey from Chikara's Hot off the Griddle. Easily ****, this was great, especially Generico's slowly-building offense. He told a terrific story and Sara did her part too, and although I haven't really seen any of Del Rey's Shimmer stuff, I can confidently say that this is the best match I've seen of hers.


----------



## Bubz

Wow, must see Ibushi vs Hino. Not seen Hino before, don't watch a lot of DDT usually.

I've got a lot to catch up on from the last month or so, haven't been watching anything at all apart from the odd RAW when I can be bothered because of finishing up my uni course.

So far I've got that Ibushi/Hino match, O'Reilly/Cole and Steen/Davey from BITW. Anything else from Puro or anything really that's absolutely MUST watch from the last month or so?


----------



## Sunglasses

blink_41sum_182 said:


> Link?


would be very thankful for getting the link


----------



## seabs

*Hirooki Goto vs Tomohiro Ishii - NJPW 20.05.2012*
_God this was a zillion times better than it ever had any right to be. Terrific strong style match in which both guys looked like beasts. The fact they get the crowd up to K.Hall levels for a small J-Sports 3 show says everything you need to know about the match. Could have done without the no selling suplexes spot but other than that this well and truly rocked. Ishii's a total BOSS in this._

*****1/4+*


----------



## EmbassyForever

*Chikara DVD May 20, 2012 The Ogg and I" - Manhattan, NY*
8. Jigsaw vs. Eddie Kingston ****


----------



## jawbreaker

So I liked Cole/O'Reilly, but I don't think I can see it being ****1/2. Probably not even ****, but still worth a watch for all the awesome stuff and despite all the not-awesome stuff. No way on Steen/Richards (either one).


----------



## Zatiel

I liked Cole/O'Reilly a lot, even before Cole's mouth was busted open. It helps that I've seen their wXw stuff, so even when they rushed, they didn't seem nearly as bad on overkill as they used to. Here it all pretty much seemed appropriate, and got more personal as it went along. Definitely one of my favorite ROH matches in a while, and my favorite singles match from either guy to date. It far exceeded my expectations.


----------



## seabs

*Yoshihito Sasaki vs Yuji Okabayashi - BJW 21.06.2012*
_You know how this goes by now. Great hard hitting slugfest. Finish is horrificly scary. Sasaki/Sekimoto for the title next month :mark:_

******


----------



## Lane

Seabs said:


> *Yoshihito Sasaki vs Yuji Okabayashi - BJW 21.06.2012*
> _You know how this goes by now. Great hard hitting slugfest. Finish is horrificly scary. *Sasaki/Sekimoto for the title next month* :mark:_
> 
> ******


opetunga3:cena2:eddierimorusso:
:cornette::yes:yes:
yes:yes:yes:yes:yes:yes:yes:yes

Every emotion I had when seeing this is happening.


----------



## Chismo

Holy shit, fuck yeah. I'm pretty damn sure they will top the Strong Climb epicness.


----------



## Bubz

Yep, definitely looking forward to Sasaki/Sekimoto. As good as their strong climb match was, I think they can top it.


----------



## jawbreaker

Can someone give me a list of BJW matches from this year to watch? I feel like starting to watch good wrestling again.


----------



## Cactus

jawbreaker said:


> Can someone give me a list of BJW matches from this year to watch? I feel like starting to watch good wrestling again.


Any match featuring Sekimoto is a good way to start.


----------



## Coolquip

*ROH Championship
Kevin Steen vs Davey Richards- Border Wars*

I've been looking forward to this for quite some time. Davey Richards, ROHs main man versus Wrestling's Worst Nightmare Kevin Steen. This has to be one of ROHs best built up matches in history. I loved the promos for it and in an unrelated note kinda showed how Punk/Cena should have been built up. Richards is the face but unlike Cena he doesn't want a match because it'd be an awesome match but, because he wants to kick Steen's ass. Steen's manipulation to get this match was also tremendous..

Speaking of Cena/Punk this match had a similar atmosphere to it. The crowd was in full support of their countryman Steen and fully against Richards. And Richards, again unlike Cena, doesn't try to win them over, he says "Fuck you guys, I'm winning this damn match and I don't give two shits what I have to do it"

Steen sells his knee awesomely in this match and Richards pulling out the D.R. Driver made me MTFO. I love how they sold that it was all on the line for both guys. That this was Steen's only chance and Richards had to fight for the company. When Steen won I lost my shit, even though I kinda knew it was happening. Silken not giving him the belt was another nice touch, not sure what to make of the Corino stuff.

This might be my MOTY the only thing keeping it from 5* is a few nitpicks ( The crowd is a little quiet at times; Kevin Kelly commentary is a bit off in terms of the drama in the match) but still a classic.

FAVORITE SPOT: Definitely the DR Driver; honorable mention to Richards flipping off the crowd. Both illustrated his frustration and desperation with this moment at hand.

****3/4


----------



## EmbassyForever

Great review, Coolquip. I enjoyed that match too.


----------



## TelkEvolon

jawbreaker said:


> Can someone give me a list of BJW matches from this year to watch? I feel like starting to watch good wrestling again.


http://www.youtube.com/user/BiggestJapan

Sasaki vs Callihan
Sekimoto vs Sasaki
Sekimoto vs Okabayashi
Sekimoto & Sasaki vs Walter & Okabayashi

Those are 4 that instantly come to mind.

I'd say it would be worth just watching the whole shows, great variety and very easy to watch, not to mention probably being the most consistently good wrestling going.


----------



## seabs

*El Generico vs Sara Del Rey - Chikara Hot Off The Griddle*
_Felt a lot like an old school ROH match. Put two great wrestlers together, give them time and a small story and let the rest just happen because it's bound to be great. Male/Female at the start was great and Generico is the perfect guy to be working that story. Then it just turns into 2 great wrestlers having a great wrestling match and it felt like such a treat because you don't get that on the Indies much these days. Just 2 great wrestlers doing great wrestling like it used to be. Picks up for the finish exactly like you'd want it to and they work a really good, hot finish without ever going overboard or going past their peak. _

******

*Watched the 2 Generico/Del Sol matches from last weekend too. Neither were great. Thought the 1st was very good and I enjoyed it. Del Sol's getting overhyped because he's a good flippy dude in a pool of not so good generic dudes. Some of his stuff looks cool but then some other stuff isn't very smooth at all and makes him look geeky. 2nd match I didn't really enjoy. It's basically the same match but in a shitty venue with a crowd who look like they all got in for free on the door. Hated how they didn't play off any spots the night before and just worked the exact same spots. If you're doing the same pairing 2 nights in a row then it's the perfect chance to play off a ton of spots because they're fresh in everyone's minds. Del Sol almost fucked up another dive too and looked iffy on some of his spots again. The Generico/CVE angle after the 1st match was awesome. Generico's reaction to kicking her was godly.*


----------



## Chismo

Seabs said:


> *Watched the 2 Generico/Del Sol matches from last weekend too. Neither were great. Thought the 1st was very good and I enjoyed it. Del Sol's getting overhyped because he's a good flippy dude in a pool of not so good generic dudes. Some of his stuff looks cool but then some other stuff isn't very smooth at all and makes him look geeky. 2nd match I didn't really enjoy. It's basically the same match but in a shitty venue with a crowd who look like they all got in for free on the door. Hated how they didn't play off any spots the night before and just worked the exact same spots. If you're doing the same pairing 2 nights in a row then it's the perfect chance to play off a ton of spots because they're fresh in everyone's minds. Del Sol almost fucked up another dive too and looked iffy on some of his spots again. The Generico/CVE angle after the 1st match was awesome. Generico's reaction to kicking her was godly.*


Yeah... Because Del Sol having an answer ready for the top rope brainbuster that won him the match is completely irrelevant. :hoff:mourinho


----------



## seabs

*They probably lost me by that point in fairness. My point is in general during the match there were too many repeated spots and it wasn't different enough to the same match the night before.*


----------



## Emperor DC

Seabs, I gather you're not the biggest CHIKARA fan, but dig out Sara/Claudio and Sara/Quack from last year, as well as Quack/Kingston from High Noon. 

I could name more, but those are the ones that stand out in the last twelve months or so.


----------



## DarloKid

here is the review i wrote for a match up from Great Bear Promotions, debut show, i think this match can be found on youtube here is the mini review 

Match 3 – Chris Brookes vs Jonathan Gresham [****]

Holy Shit what a great match up this was and something i was not expecting. In probably the biggest match of his career the tall and young looking Chris Brookes took on American and CZW star Jonathan Gresham. This was the first time i had ever seen both guys compete before and to be honest i thought Jonathan Gresham was just a spotty highflier from the states but man was i wrong and if he ever reads this i apologies for thinking that, not that he probably will. This match blew me away and i wasn’t expecting the action that was about to occur before my eyes. The match up started with Gresham and Brookes going at it in the technical wrestling stakes and going hold for hold, along with some beautiful counters and transitions which were a joy to behold. It was really smooth and just looked fantastic which had the 25 strong crowd applauding throughout numerous stages as both guys jockeyed to gain the upper hand and show their technical wrestling prowess. This went on for a good 5 minutes or so with the match up taking a turn, a real stiff turn as both guys beat the shit out of one another with some real stiff chops and forearms coming from Gresham and some tasty looking kicks and forearms from Brookes. The two took it in turns to batter one another, again with the crowd applauding every strike these two unloaded on one another. The pace in the action heated up once more and Gresham hit a fantastic combination of a Jawbreaker and then a RKO. As the pace quickened the two again competed with one another move for move and strike for strike. A fantastic sequence then occurred with both guys trading pin attempts i counted about 10, the finish saw Gresham able to pick up the win when he was able to make Brookes submit when he locked him in an Octopus stretch type submission hold. Post match Gresham and Brookes shock hands and hugged in the middle of the ring. Wow what a match up, it lasted 13 minutes and was non stop action throughout, i certainly wasn’t expecting what i saw there, such a great match up. My initial thoughts of Jonathan Gresham being a spotty highflyer were totally dispelled in this match up, the guys a machine a fantastic wrestler. I would love to see him in a singles match up against say a Jack Gallagher or maybe a Zack Sabre Jr somewhere down the line. As for Chris Brookes this was a breakout match for the youngster and he never in my opinion looked out of depth with his vaster experienced foe and kept up with him move for move and strike for strike throughout this great contest, Brookes is certainly one to look out for in the future and keep an eye out for as i shall be doing and id love to see these two go at it again whether it is for Great Bear Promotions or another promotion in the UK, a rematch could be even better. On a side note if this match up was played out in a packed crowd with a great atmosphere i have no doubt the rating and the match up itself would be even better, its such a shame that only 25 people got to see this match live, but hey, good job Great Bear Promotions released it on DVD.


----------



## Chismo

DeeCee said:


> Seabs, I gather you're not the biggest CHIKARA fan, but dig out Sara/Claudio and Sara/Quack from last year, as well as Quack/Kingston from High Noon.
> 
> I could name more, but those are the ones that stand out in the last twelve months or so.


+ King's Grand Title defenses (Gerard, Lee, Steen), especially the one against Jigsaw. Eddie Kingston is CHIKARA's Kobashi from the middle of 00s.


----------



## Bubz

Finally got around to watching stuff from Best In The World.

*Kyle O'Reilly vs Adam Cole*
Started off really well I thought with the counters to the strikes and stuff, usually that kind of 'indy stand off' as I've heard it called can annoy me, but with these two it worked because they obviously know eachother so well. I liked the limb work from both guys, seemed pretty fresh to see something like that in a ROH match even though it didn't last very long. Liked Kyle acting like a dick too, he comes off as a natural douche and he suits being a heel so much more than a face. Kyle really impressed me here in the early going with some nifty looking arm work, and then going back to the arm bars later on in the match. Also Cole going after Kyle's bad knee was good, which turned out to be even better by the end.

Picked up with Cole getting annoyed and just working over Kyle with strikes in the corner and then that exchange that led to Cole's mouth getting fucked up completely. Then the match just got fucking crazy, and in an awesome way. Kyle just beating the shit out of Cole with those Kawada kicks which looked better than Davey's have ever looked, and the headbutt exchange similar to the one in the Nigel/Dragon match from Driven came off as pure desperation mixed with hate for one another. By this point the crowd is going nuts, and probably the best I've seen an ROH or more specifically a Hammerstein crowd in so long. that shot of Cole screaming and spraying blood out of his mouth was amazing. Kyle's timing with hitting his big moves was just great here, the strikes and then the backdrop driver worked perfectly and Cole refusuing to go down was great. Also the superkick that sent Kyle to the outside while he was against the ropes looked so stiff and came off as Cole just trying to murder him. The submmission exchanges at the end were great as they played off of the limb work earlier in the match and the actual finish was enexpected but awesome and a great way to end it. I'm not going to lie, I was marking out just as much as the Davey/Elgin match here, probably even more for Cole who got a deserved 'Adam Fuckin' Cole' chant. I really really liked this match, both guys were great in it, and the final quarter is just insane. It was pretty short but incredibly sweet and it peaked and ended at the perfect times. Nigel is fucking amazing on commentary again too.
*****1/4*

*Kevin Steen vs Davey Richards*
First of all, Kyle's promo coming out and turning on Davey was awesome.

Corino: 'Jimmy Jacobs has just informed me that the F word was used in the movie Spaceball so it is ok to use it on TV' :lmao. Corino is fucking amazing on commentary, absolutely hilarious.

LOL at this match! Just complete chaos and I found myself constantly laughing throughout at Corino and all the stuff that happened. This match was a total mess but in a really good, fun way. Cruise getting randomly superkicked by Steen was hilarious and out of the blue, then Davey taking out Sinclair :lmao, by this point I was just thinkig 'what the fuck!' but again, in a good way. Cornette, Corino and Jacobs all got involved and it just felt like a massive car wreck just like Nigel described it. You also had Davey acting like a dick the entire time who was just in it for himself and not for the company or Cornette. Really enjoyed it and I haven't had that much fun watching anything in ages. 'LEAVE TODD SINCLAIR ALONE!!!' :lmao. Awesome stuff. 

The match itself wasn't anything great, but this wasn't really about that. From the minute Kyle came out at the start it was just all sorts of fun. If anything just watch this for the amusement and Corino being godly on commentary.

Steen's promo after was awesome, and would have come off as an epic full on heel turn if the crowd didn't LOUDLY cheer everything Steen said. He ripped them apart and they still cheered him, nothing is ever going to get Steen boo'd, so why bother trying to turn him full heel wehn you could have him as the rebel face of the company.


----------



## Cactus

*Jun Akiyama vs Takao Omori (AJPW; 2012/02/10)*
Awesome match which could of been even awesomer if Omori worked the arm into the finish. 
*Rating: ★★★★*


----------



## Concrete

*Masa Takanashi (c) vs Yuji Hino - (DDT 05/04/12)*

_What a friggin' match! To see that Seabs says that Hino's match against Ibushi is one of the best of the year has got me really pumped to see it as soon as I can find where to see it. It was interesting to see Takanashi playing the heel but also getting the crowd behind him on his comebacks. Probably has a little to do with Hino brutalizing Takanashi for a lot of the match. Takanashi just wanted no part of Hino and tried hitting him with the belt and trying to get Hino DQ'd by faking getting hit by the belt. That actually worked and the referee ended the match but only for a little bit and then Hino over-hand chopped Taka to DEATH. Then when Taka finally gets an opening ofter being pounded on he goes straight to the knee/leg. That strategy later in the match actually bought him a few seconds after a move that could have most likely ended the match if he hadn't. Just great stuff with Taka being the champ that seemed like he would do anything to win whether that meant cheating or dieing and Hino being a bad ass brute of a man._*****1/4*


----------



## seabs

*Oh god I need to see that now.*


----------



## smitlick

*ROH Rise and Prove*
Davey Richards & Kyle O'Reilly vs The Briscoe Brothers
****

*ROH Showdown In The Sun Night 1*
Kevin Steen vs El Generico
****1/4


----------



## USAUSA1

Aerostar, Argenis, Atomic Boy vs Gran Apache, Semental, Tito Santana you really want to see this match

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_CXJNjOMf8


----------



## USAUSA1

Rey Cometa, Starman, Stuka Jr. vs Puma King, Sangre Azteca, Virus is my match of the year for me personally. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUZE1cEUYNk


----------



## Bubz

Aries/Roode is the match of the year. DRAMA! Incredible bloody match.


----------



## Rickey

*TNA Destination X 2012*
AJ Styles vs. Christopher Daniels-Last Man Standing Match
Bobby Roode vs. Austin Aries-World Title Match

Shout out to: Samoa Joe vs. Kurt Angle.


----------



## dukenukem3do

AJ Styles vs Daniels LMS-Destination X ****
Austin Aries vs Bobby Roode-Destination X ****


----------



## Ali Dia

Aries/Roode ****1/4
AJ v Daniels ***3/4
Joe v Angle ***3/4

Aries/Roode had a couple of sloppy points but it was such a well worked match. Old school psychology, both guys played their roles well. Glad I payed for this show.


----------



## EmbassyForever

TNA DX:
Daniels vs. AJ Styles - ***3/4
Joe vs. Angle - ***1/4
Aries vs Roode - ***1/2


----------



## Violent By Design

Aries vs Roode was awesome, had a great dramatic old school vibe, not to mention it was booked very well. My MOTY behind Lesnar vs Cena.


----------



## darkclaudio

Destination X:

- Mason Andrews vs Rubix vs Lars Only vs Dakota Darsow (TNA X-Division Championship Tournament Qualifier) ***
- Mason Andrews vs Kid Kash (TNA X-Division Championship Tournament Semi-Finals) **1/4
- Kenny King vs Douglas Williams (TNA X-Division Championship Tournament Semi-Finals) ***
- Sonjay Dutt vs Rashad Cameron (TNA X-Division Championship Tournament Semi-Finals) **1/2
- Zema Ion vs Flip Casanova (TNA X-Division Championship Tournament Semi-Finals) **
- Samoa Joe vs Kurt Angle (BFG Series Match) ***1/2
- AJ Styles vs Christopher Daniels (Last Man Standing) ***3/4
- Zema Ion vs Mason Andrews vs Sonjay Dutt vs Kenny King (TNA X-Division Championship Tournament Finals/Ultimate X) ***
- Austin Aries vs Bobby Roode © (TNA World Heavyweight Championship) ****1/4


----------



## Manu_Styles

*Destination X*

Samoa Joe vs Kurt Angle: ***1/2
*Last Man Standing:* AJ Styles vs Christopher Daniels: ****1/4
*TNA World Heavyweight Champion:* Austin Aries vs Bobby Roode: ****


----------



## Zatiel

Going to rewatch this show, because it was a lot of fun. Obviously some outcomes that were deeply satisfying.

But my favorite match from it was Joe/Angle. They worked at a very intense pace for every style they switched to, from striking to throwing to technical wrestling. They had their short time limit and still managed to build to all the finisher-counters really damned well. I loved Joe's subtle ways of changing up the Choke to block Angle from the ropes and break his traditional counter attempts.


----------



## Bubz

*TNA Destination X*

*AJ Styles vs Christopher Daniels (LMS match)*
Really entertaining match. A lot of good spots mixed in with Daniels awesome heel schtick was what made this so good despite having seen these guys wtrestle tons of times. Daniels really is such a great heel, his arguing with the fans is so mich fun, and his cocky cowardly stuff at the start was great too. Finish was sick! ****3/4*

*Austin Aries vs Bobby Roode (TNA Heavyweight Title match)*
Loved the start with Aries proving he is indeed in Roode's league with the one-upmanship. The wrestling was great to show this with both guys trading holds and taking turns being cocky about it. Then it transitioned so well into Roode's control segment with Aries missing the dive for the first time since being in TNA. This was awesome because it put Roode over as being smarter than all of Aries' other opponents to date. Love Roode's control segment, really giving off a Triple H 2000 vibe with it, which is fine because I'm a huge fan of Hunter around that era. Really good (slightly long, but in a good way) old school style beatdown on Aries, getting the crowd behind him. Aries' comeback was awesome, just firing up with those sick elbows, he seemed genuinely pissed. Aries is so good at that firing up type of thing and getting the crowd behind him. Then we get in to the last 5 minutes. Oh God the last five minutes! Simply one of the best, most drama filled finishing stretches I can remember seeing in ages. The teased ref bump, the eventual ref bump, Roode's heel tactics, the EPIC finish, the crowd reaction to all of it. I was legit on the edge of my seat for the last 5 and for the nearfalls and teased finishes. That never happens to me. This is the exact type of match I absolutely love. Booked to perfection with tons of drama. awesome. *****1/2*


----------



## smitlick

*ROH Showdown In The Sun Night 2*
Michael Elgin vs Davey Richards
****1/2


----------



## Caponex75

*TNA - Bobby Roode vs. Austin Aries for the TNA World Championship*
Aries vs. Roode is the only match on the show worth watching actually. Everything else seemed bland, paint by numbers, or just good. I would say Daniels vs. AJ is the only match that stands out if we weren't counting Aries vs. Roode but I'd take the Main Event over that by a mile......actually make that 3 miles. Considering I had to wait 10 hours and watch this match blind to the result today proves how much I was looking forward to it. That being said, this is my TNA MOTY. My only issue is that armdrag mishap and Aries wasn't really selling his ribs during his comeback but that last really didn't hurt the match. What I love about this is that it focuses on storytelling and unlike every other match that night, it focuses on substance. What I mean by that is almost everything means something and has a reason something may or may not work in the future. Like Aries's IED in the corner. The running theme tonight was that Roode had Aries big moves scouted. When Aries went for the Suicide Dive, he'd dodge it. When Aries went for the IED, he had a Oklahoma slam just waiting for it. When Aries is able to hit the IED, it's because Roode got distracted with arguing with the ref and even then it was almost had he gone through specific hardcore training to instinctively be ready for Aries's Brainbuster. It's simple storytelling but one that made Roode look like he was almost in a different league than Aries was(Which he should look like considering he is the World Champion).

Then there was just little things that made Aries look like a thorn in Roode's side. Always being resilient and not being this push over that Roode keeps thinking he is. The best part about Aries's second comeback is that Roode's bullying gets him into a brawl with Aries and A Double is the guy who went toe to toe with Bully Ray and beat his @$$. It's simple basic stuff but the presentation of it was badass. Reason being was because Roode was actually fighting back against Aries instead of doing the typical punches comeback and they were just laying into each other. It felt big because Aries overcome a Roode that wasn't just going to let him roll over him like that. You could feel that Aries was going to make this a win no matter what Roode had to say about it. That brings me back to everything having a meaning.

Remember when Roode speared the nonsense out of Aries? Well Aries has a counter for it the second time around into the Last Chancery. Remember when Roode was targeting Austin's ribs with a Kitchen sink? Well Aries has a counter for it the second time around with a school boy. It's basic little stuff but it works because it helps drives the match. Roode is one step ahead of him and Aries has to make up for those lost in steps. One awesome bit that nobody but me probably loved was when Aries rolled up Roode when he attempts the Crossface, Roode has the immediate and well thought out counter to when he really gets it in deep. He stops Austin from rolling into a pin two freaking times and honestly made it believable in my view. Awesome psychology as well as just staying consistent with being on the absolute top of his game. Then the dirty finishes came after that.

This is why I never cry about heels cheating because when you get the proper pay off for it, the full circle of "Oh n0ez! Anodur cop out wen" to "OH MAI GOODNESS! HAY KICKED OUT!". Roode using desperation tactics to put away Aries felt like a cop out but that's what heels are. They are big, disgusting, self masturbating, cheating dip$#its that take the easy way instead of earning it. He has won this way many times before and that's why you get your believe from that it'll work again. So you already have this match where Roode has went toe to toe with Aries and he still could possibly win(Because Roode does contain some clean wins in the past) but he has MAJOR wins by cheating as well. So needless to say when Roode did this dirty tactics, it was in the books. I, watching blind mind you, bought them and marked out whenever Aries defied the statistics. That is how you make a match......when all the BS before hand doesn't get the job done this time around. Best thing about this whole deal? Not one finisher is sacrificed.

One of my biggest things I dislike about wrestling now is when the whole window is thrown out. Now don't get me wrong, there are times when it is done right(Richards/Elgin) and there are times when that was just done to make your match seem "OMG grate"(Angle vs. Joe that night). If you have the right substance and the storytelling is consistent, then Roode won't have to kick out of a 450 or Aries have to kick out Roode's finishers. You'll have that over dramatic moments when they do try to go for them because everyone recognizes them as big deals. This is what happened here and when Austin was going for the Brainbuster, you bet your bottom dollar that everyone was going bananas for it. Proper psychology, fantastic storytelling, and you had the crowd going molten lava for it. That's my kind of wrestling right there. ****1/2

Far and beyond the best match of the year and one of MOTYs. Feels glad to put TNA up there again considering last year I don't think I had TNA in my MOTYs.


----------



## Shepard

*Destination X*

Joe/Angle - *****
AJ/Daniels - ****3/4*
Aries/Roode - ******

Legit mad that I had the finish to Aries/Roode spoiled to me this morning by a friend (knocked half a snowflake off due to it) b/c it was a really, really good match and some of the nearfalls would've been hella believable if I didn't already know how it was gonna go down. Aries is continuing to have a pretty great year ring wise.


----------



## rafz

ROH Border Wars
_Davey Richards vs. Kevin Steen_
******

ROH Best In The World: Hostage Crisis
_Adam Cole vs. Kyle O'Reilly - Hybrid Fighting Rules Match _
*****1/4*


----------



## geraldinhio

I might actually watch Destination X. Some matches are very intriguing , the main event in perticular. I haven't watched a full TNA even since God knows when. It had Johnny Devine as X champ so that put me off. My God I randomly hate him. :lmao


----------



## Last Chancery

Yeah, I'd give Aries/Roode **** or so. Really surprised Roode didn't kick out at the end, and I'm actually happy he didn't. Gives Aries' brainbuster a lot more credibility as a finish.


----------



## Groovemachine

Really enjoyed Destination X, such a watchable show from start to finish. Styles/Daniels was my MOTN actually at ****, great intensity with spots that built up perfectly to the epic finish. Again, I had the Roode/Aries finish spoilt for me which may have affected things, I went ***3/4. 



Spoiler: Ultimate X



As a side note, LOL at Sonjay Dutt being a total retard in the Ultimate X match. His opponent was CLEARLY right by the ropes, why on EARTH would you attempt a standing shooting star press? So typical of the kind of 'get-your-shit-in' wrestler that he is, and it bit him in the ass as he got injured. Obviously, I'd never wish injury on anyone so that sucks for him, but still...what an idiot.


----------



## dele

CZW Tournament of Death XI

Danny Havoc vs Drake Younger - **** 1/2

If you're a ROH-bot, you won't like this match. That being said, it's an insanely fun match and the two of them go balls to the wall.


----------



## ninetwentyfour

EmbassyForever said:


> TNA DX:
> Daniels vs. AJ Styles - ***3/4
> Joe vs. Angle - ***1/4
> Aries vs Roode - ***1/2


That must be some universe you live in where any of these 3 matches, particularly Daniels/Styles and Aries/Roode, were weaker than Bravados/Bucks from Unity.


----------



## jawbreaker

ninetwentyfour said:


> That must be some universe you live in where any of these 3 matches, particularly Daniels/Styles and Aries/Roode, were weaker than Bravados/Bucks from Unity.


Look who you're talking to.


----------



## EmbassyForever

ninetwentyfour said:


> That must be some universe you live in where any of these 3 matches, particularly Daniels/Styles and Aries/Roode, were weaker than Bravados/Bucks from Unity.


I didn't liked Aries vs. Roode as you mainly because i didn't thought that Aries gonna win this so the drama here and the pinfalls didn't worked on me. The match by itself was a great wrestling match and i was shocked (and happy, of course) with Aries winning the title. But i will rewatch soon and maybe my opinion will change..


----------



## geraldinhio

EmbassyForever said:


> I didn't liked Aries vs. Roode as you mainly because i didn't thought that Aries gonna win this so the drama here and the pinfalls didn't worked on me. The match by itself was a great wrestling match and i was shocked (and happy, of course) with Aries winning the title. But i will rewatch soon and maybe my opinion will change..


Wait there , if I'm reading your post right you're saying the drama and the pinfalls didn't work because you didn't think Aries would win. I could understand this if you were full sure Aries was gonna win. I knew some didn't rate it as high because the finish was spoiled , which was understandable.

EDIT- Also which match was it between Zack Sabre Jr and Marty Scurll that was being pimped as a MOTYC? Was it the one from Progress wrestling? Haven't heard much pimping it on this board.


----------



## smitlick

Yep the one from Progress Wrestling. I have it on DVD just haven't watched it yet.


----------



## Chismo

geraldinhio said:


> Wait there , if I'm reading your post right you're saying the drama and the pinfalls didn't work because you didn't think Aries would win. I could understand this if you were full sure Aries was gonna win. I knew some didn't rate it as high because the finish was spoiled , which was understandable.
> 
> EDIT- Also which match was it between Zack Sabre Jr and Marty Scurll that was being pimped as a MOTYC? Was it the one from Progress wrestling? Haven't heard much pimping it on this board.


LMAO...

And yes, Sabre/Scurll apparently had an awesome match in Progress.


----------



## seabs

*I didn't think Sabre/Scurll was a MOTYC but a lot of others did. Crowd were too joky for them to get a serious match out of it to that level. No doubt wXw will pair them up soon though and it'll be amazing.*


----------



## Bubz

geraldinhio said:


> Wait there , if I'm reading your post right you're saying the drama and the pinfalls didn't work because you didn't think Aries would win. I could understand this if you were full sure Aries was gonna win. I knew some didn't rate it as high because the finish was spoiled , which was understandable.


Yeah, that post confused me too lol.


----------



## MF83

Who's got a toP ten list so far this year?


----------



## Bubz

MF83 said:


> Who's got a toP ten list so far this year?


Well, I feel cutting it down to ten is kind of harsh on some matches, so heres everything I've rated over **** this year for what it's worth.

Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito (NJPW 04/03) ****1/2
Bobby Roode vs Austin Aries (TNA Destination X) ****1/2
CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan (WWE Over The Limit) ****1/2
Daisuke Sekimoto vs Suwama (AJPW 02/01) ****1/4
Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin (ROH SITS Night Two) ****1/4
Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus (WWE Extreme Rules) ****1/4
Kazuchika Okada vs Hirooki Goto (NJPW Dontaku) ****1/4
Katsuhiko Nakajima vs SHINGO (D-Ring 11/02) ****1/4
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki (NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI) ****1/4
Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yoshihito Sasaki (BJW 26/03) ****1/4
Adam Cole vs Kyle O'Reilly (ROH Best In The World) ****1/4
CM Punk vs Chris Jericho (WWE Extreme Rules) ****1/4
Prince Devitt vs Pac (NJPW 06/06) ****1/4
Go Shiozaki vs Takeshi Morishima (NOAH 22/01) ****1/4
Suwama vs Seiya Sanada (AJPW 04/03) ****1/4


----------



## Cactus

MF83 said:


> Who's got a toP ten list so far this year?


From the first page...

1. John Cena vs Brock Lesnar (WWE Extreme Rules; 2012/04/29)
2. Dave 'Fit' Finlay vs Sami Callihan (EVOLVE 11; 2012/04/13)
3. Daisuke Sekimoto vs Suwama (AJPW; 2012/01/02)
4. Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito (NJPW; 2012/03/04)
5. Prince Devitt vs Low Ki (NJPW; 2012/05/03)
6. CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan (WWE Over The Limit; 2012/05/20)
7. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho (WWE WrestleMania XXVIII; 2012/04/01)
8. Atsushi Aoki & Kotaro Suzuki vs Atsushi Kotoge & Daisuke Harada (NOAH; 2012/22/01)
9. Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin (ROH Showdown in the Sun Night 2; 2012/03/31)
10. CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan (WWE Raw; 2012/01/30)

Pretty random list, I know.


----------



## Emperor DC

I've been meaning to check Progress out for a while now.

I'm up in London quite a bit, might try and make a show.


----------



## KingKicks

*ROH Best In The World 2012*

Adam Cole vs. Kyle O’Reilly (Hybrid Rules) ****¾-*****

*TNA Destination X*

Christopher Daniels vs. AJ Styles (Last Man Standing) ****¾-*****

Dug the hell out of Daniels/Styles. Easily Daniels best performance since his match at BITW with Generico last year and the best match between the two since their TNA world title match in 2009.

Thank god it wasn't like the I Quit match they had and more full on bloody awesomeness.


----------



## AA world champ

This is My Top 5 so far.
1.Undertaker VS HHH *****
2.Cm Punk VS Daniel Bryan *****
3.Austin Aries VS Bobby Roode ****3/4
4.Kurt Angle and AJ styles VS Kaz and Daniels ****1/2
5.Sheamus VS Daniel Bryan ****1/2


----------



## 777

I've actually been trying to pin down a decent top ten seeing as how we're about halfway through the year now. Here's mine, totally skewed to taste for which I make absolutely no apologies.

1. CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan - WWE OTL
2. ***** Casas vs Blue Panther CMLL Hair vs Hair
3. Kevin Steen vs Davey Richards - ROH Border Wars
4. Austin Aries vs Bobby Roode - TNA Destination X
5. Shingo Takagi vs Katsuhiko Nakajima - D-Ring
6. Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - WWE Extreme Rules 2/3 Falls
7. Prince Devitt vs Low-Ki - NJPW Dontaku
8. Kenny Omega vs Hiroshi Yamato - AJPW 01-03
9. Chris Jericho vs CM Punk - WWE WMXXVIII
10. Sara Del Rey vs El Generico - Chikara Hot Off The Griddle


----------



## topper1

EmbassyForever said:


> I didn't liked Aries vs. Roode as you mainly because i didn't thought that Aries gonna win


But he did :gun:

I kinda understand the feeling though I didn't know going in and decided half way through that Aries had no chance then skipped to the end and was shocked lol.


----------



## seabs

*AJ Styles vs Christopher Daniels - Last Man Standing - TNA Destination X 2012*
_Great little match. Thought Daniels was particularly super in this. Dug the stalling at the start and he rocked his control segment even if it was brief. Looked in total control and showed off about it. Dislikeable but awesome. Liked AJ's selling. Thought Daniels threw some great punches ringside. Steps bump looked brilliant. Thought everything once they got up to the stage was great. I normally hate fighting on the stage because it feels phony and there just because. Didn't here. They built the tension so well on the stage. Kaz's run in was great, bump could have been a bit better though. Great near fall. Finish rocked. First big spot which I dug because it needed to be more of a fight than a match with wrestling spots and it was. Really strong stuff._

******

*Thought Aries/Roode was good but not great or anything. AJ/Roode was a lot better. Roode's control segment really took me out of it. Same thing happened at Lockdown. He doesn't look assertive enough controlling a big match like this. Finish made it. Felt big and important. That was a crowd who actually cared about the product unlike what people try and convince themselves the ROH fans are. Doubt I'll remember anything from the match come the end of the year bar the result.*


----------



## topper1

I'm gonna be so letdown in all of you if AJ vs Daniels doesn't set my world on fire. The thought of watching them wrestle for the 100th time sounds dreadful.


----------



## seabs

*It's not a "set your world on fire" match but it's short and to the point enough that I don't see any reason for anyone at least not to like it.*


----------



## Bubz

It's really entertaining match. Daniels is amazing with a great heel performance in it which really elevates it above a lot of their more recent singles matches. Cool spots too, simple but effective.

I think me and Capone are the only ones to have rated Aries/Roode as high as we did. I loved everything about it. Who knows, on a re-watch I could lower my rating but for now it's my second favorite match this year.


----------



## Manu_Styles

I have to watch a lot of puro but right now this is my top 10 this year

1. *ROH World Heavyweight Champion:* Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin - SITS Day 2
2. *Hybrid Fighting Rules:* Adam Cole vs Kyle O´Reilly - Best in The World 2012
3. *WWE Champion:* Daniel Bryan vs. CM Punk - Over The Limit 2012
4. *IWGP Heavyweight Championship:* Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki - NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI
5. *ROH World Heavyweight Champion:* Kevin Steen vs Davey Richards - Best In The World 2012
6. *2/3 Falls:* Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - Extreme Rules
7. Kota Ibushi vs El Generico - DDT Max Bump 2012
8. *Last Man Standing:* AJ Styles vs Christopher Daniels - Destination X
9. *Mask vs Hair:* Tim Donst vs Hallowicked - Chikarasaurus Rex
10. *SMASH Title:* Tajiri vs Finlay - Smash 19/02/12


----------



## Coolquip

Haven't seen every PPV match or a whole lot Indus but here's my list:

15) Ziggler/Punk- Royal Rumble
14) Kidd/McGuillicutty- NXT
13) Henry/Punk- RAW
12) Aries/Roode- Destination X
11) Bryan/Kane/Punk- NWO
10) Ziggler/Sheamus- NWO
.9) AJ/Roode- Impact
8) Richards/Edwards- ROH
7) Bryan/Punk- Super Smackdown
6) Aries/Joe- Slammiversary.
5) Bryan/Punk- Over the Limit
4) Lesnar/Cena- Extreme Rules
3) Elgin/Richards- Showdown in the Sun
2) Undertaker/HHH- Wrestlemania.
1) Steen/Richards- Border Wars


----------



## Bubz

*NJPW/AJPW 7/1/12*

*Shinsuke Nakamura & Kazuchika Okada vs Suwama & Shuji Kondo*
Okada/Nakamura SWAG . Suwama . Oh yeah and Kondo is there as well. We get Suwama and Nakamura trading holds, Suwama takes a cheapshot at Okada, Okada tags in and he is OVER! Good stuff. Suwama and Kondo playing the dominating team was great with a really good control segment, and when Nakamura eventually got the tag in he was even more over than Okada! Basically just breaks down in to the finishing stretch which was loads of fun. Any combination of these guys in singles matches would be awesome. I thought the Okada/Suwama exchanges were great, but then along comes the Nakamura/Suwama exchanges and they were even better! Suwama was a beast in this. The right guy went over the right guy too which was a bonus. This was further comfirmation that Okada is indeed legit. Really fun stuff, just what I wanted from a match with three of my favorite guys in Japan right now. ******

Haven't seen the main event yet but Sekibayoshi/SMOP and Akiyama/Kea are both good matches from the show too, around the ***3/4 mark.


----------



## Groovemachine

topper1 said:


> I'm gonna be so letdown in all of you if AJ vs Daniels doesn't set my world on fire. The thought of watching them wrestle for the 100th time sounds dreadful.


I think that's why you _might_ be pleasantly surprised; those 99 other matches have predominantly been 'wrestling' matches. They both bring the hate in this one and it provides for a very fresh encounter from the two of them. I don't need another rematch, but it's cool to see them do something a bit different.


----------



## Lane

EVOLVE 10: A Tribute to The Arena
Super Smash Brothers vs Ronin ****
Chuck Taylor and Rich "Swann Hansen" Swann made for a very exciting team and SSB are always on their game.

AIW: Straight Outta Compton
AR Fox vs ACH ****-****1/2
Crazy match with a great story behind it. ACH had to replase a injured Uhha Nation in this 30min iron man match and ACH cut a great promo pretty much explaining how he never got to get the ball and run with it.


----------



## Chismo

BUBZ said:


> It's really entertaining match. Daniels is amazing with a great heel performance in it which really elevates it above a lot of their more recent singles matches. Cool spots too, simple but effective.
> 
> I think me and Capone are the only ones to have rated Aries/Roode as high as we did. I loved everything about it. Who knows, on a re-watch I could lower my rating but for now it's my second favorite match this year.


Yeah, Aries/Roode was bloody great, MOTYC easily. ****1/4

It was an old school strategic/psychological war, I dug the hell out of it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I dug a lot of Roode/Aries, Capone was bang on about the love for Aries countering Roode's offence on the second attempt, and finding ways to hit his signature offence on the second attempt. I particularly dug the spot where Roode got pushed back by the ref which led to the corner dropkick, basically played off of Roode's arrogance and attitude undoing a lot of his good work in scouting Aries' offence.

Still Roode's control segment just dragged and felt like a whole lot of nothing to me, I realise that by being a fan generally of the WWE style I shouldn't be one to complain about standard punches/kicks during a workover, but Roode just doesn't have that presence to me when watching him work someone over and as a result I was just sitting there waiting for the spot where Aries would make a comeback and enter the finishing run (which was indeed very well booked to continually tease the fans regarding a screwjob and Aries potentially winning). Aries blowing off the ribwork also irked me, though not as much as it could have done, hitting the dive for example didn't bother me since it felt like a big moment in the match, but the set up of him effortlessly landing on the apron from the attempted back body drop, then flying up and over the ropes and landing perfectly and sprinting into the dive felt like something he could have done avoided since it did render the ribwork obsolete given how effortlessly he was moving. I understand why he did it, and it didn't annoy me as much as other matches where body part work has been ignored, but that set up spot did feel quite unexpected from Aries who's usually a smarter worker when it comes to adding substance and story to his matches.

Crowd being alive did help however, I wouldn't call it a MOTYC but I can certainly appreciate why fans of Roode or bigger fans of Aries would look bast the plodding middle section and call it a MOTYC, its certainly a better TNA match than I generally expect from the company with more attention to substance and build instead of cool looking offence and transitions.


Daniels/Styles was far better than I expected, especially after they ditched the hold for hold wrestling in the beginning and just set about brawling (which was something I honestly figured they wouldn't bother with). Styles did have a few brief moments where I would have wanted him to headbutt/punch Daniels rather than attempt his enziguri's and pele's but on the whole I bought the hate in the match and it wasn't littered with high impactful spots and regular counts reaching 8/9. I mean unless I've forgotten I barely recall the referee issuing a count to one of them before they got onto the stage, which is something I wish was seen more in LMS matches these days, both men beating the crap out of each other rather than regular spots leading to the referee counting far better gets across the hatred in the match. I did kind of dislike Daniels moving after the 5 count from the big spot at the end, that felt like the sort of finish that should have seen him barely move, or at the very least wait till 8/9. Seeing him up moving about barely 5 seconds after impact did kind of make the spot seem a bit less brutal, but given how well they set it up as the big spot of the match, rather than merely one of 7/8 'awesome' spots it felt like a match ender and for that I give them credit considering who's involved.

I wouldn't put either match ahead of Cena/Lesnar, Bryan/Sheamus, Bryan/Punk or a few other matches but its the first time in ages I'm not baffled as to why the praise is strong for two TNA matches.


----------



## Bubz

Yeah the fact that there was hardly any 10 counts attempted in the match apart from the end felt really fresh. Segunda have you been watching TNA recently? It's been rather good I have to say. There's still problems with the product (as there is with most) and they could cut down their roster because they have too many guys who are mid carders with piss all to do and too many guys they want in the main event scene, but the turn around they've made since about 4 months ago has been impressive. Storlyines are good and looks like everything has a direction, also most of the matches on tv happen for a reason which is good and the belts are being put over as big deals. They are pushing the right guys too. The AJ/Daniels storyline was shit, but it still seemed like it had a direction unlike the AJ/Bryan/Punk love triangle in WWE. Hopefully that's over now anyway so AJ/Daniels can be involved in something better than that shit.

Anyway...

*NJPW/AJPW 1/7/12*

*Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Togi Makabe IWGP Title*
A great start to Tana's reign (again). Tana going after the legs, as usual, but hearing that the crowd was strongly on Makabe's side he went heel with it and that was great. crowd was majorly on his case on occasions. I liked Makabe's first comeback a lot, the transition was well done from the powersalm, and it allowed the comeback without Makabe having to use his leg. Tana didn't work the leg that much and he became too involved in taunting the crowd so Makabe shook it off and started his work over after that which was all fine and dandy for me. He worked Tana's neck nicely but then Tana made his comeback and didn't really sell anything. Tana went back after the legs again with more intent this time before they went in to the finishing stretch and then it was Makabe's turn to no sell . Saying that, the finishing stretch was fucking awesome, the crowd was really in to it and it felt really bloody epic in parts, especially when Makabe kept blocking the dragon/german suplex attempts and the crowd was going nuts. Makabe did aim everything at the neck which was cool, but Tana like usual forgot about the leg work and went to his usual spots and moves. Overall I really liked this match, Makabe not really selling his legs and Tana forgetting the leg work let it down, but it had a great finishing stretch if you're able to get past the aforementioned stuff. ******


----------



## BANKSY

Roode/Aries had the perfect combination of people wanting DESPERATELY for Aries to win, but at the same time not expecting him to, so there was genuine passion and excitement with every nearfall towards the end. When Aries kicked out of all the vintage Roode shenanigans and then hoisted him up for that brainbuster , just awesome. There is something to be said for sticking to long term plans with Roode/Storm but you have to credit TNA for striking when the iron is hot , espcially after Aries has been built so well in the previous year which is a rare thing in 2012.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

BUBZ said:


> Yeah the fact that there was hardly any 10 counts attempted in the match apart from the end felt really fresh. Segunda have you been watching TNA recently? It's been rather good I have to say. There's still problems with the product (as there is with most) and they could cut down their roster because they have too many guys who are mid carders with piss all to do and too many guys they want in the main event scene, but the turn around they've made since about 4 months ago has been impressive. Storlyines are good and looks like everything has a direction, also most of the matches on tv happen for a reason which is good and the belts are being put over as big deals. They are pushing the right guys too. The AJ/Daniels storyline was shit, but it still seemed like it had a direction unlike the AJ/Bryan/Punk love triangle in WWE. Hopefully that's over now anyway so AJ/Daniels can be involved in something better than that shit.


Yep, nothing more annoying than a supposed grudge feud where both men 'hate' one another and the majority of the match features overly choreographed/telegraphed spots and regular counts reaching 8/9 instead of a wild brawl occasionally broken up by the referee counting. That's partly why I always loved the HHH/Jericho LMS, they just go all out against each other and there's quite a few moments where the referee only begins to count when both men are lying on the ground feeling the effects of the match. Communicates a much stronger sense of hatred.

Nope, I keep a track of spoilers/general overcaps of the shows in case there's a match/angle/promo worth keeping track of, but there's far too few guys in the company I have any vested interest in (Bully Ray, Aries (and not even a 'huge' fan of him), Doug Williams, Storm can be ok but I'm not really a fan of him as a face) and the wrestling style will never really win me over unless they alter it. Too many matches where there's little to no substance behind the impressive moves and athletic spots, in some ways that does allow for matches like Aries/Bully, Bully/Styles and Roode/Aries to shine compared to the rest but I doubt I'll ever be a regular watcher aside from checking out the best pimped matches.

Their video package presentations however are superb, I watched the before the bell hype video for Storm/Roode at Lockdown and Aries/Roode and both were superb in creating a pure sports build for the match. From what I've seen the shows post Russo look more structured and coherent, and any comedy (Eric Young etc) seems to be used in the right doses to balance out the more serious angles, but aside from Joe Park/Bully Ray and Aries' booking the past couple of months there's very few guys in the company I'm interested in watching week in week out.

That being said they've had Raw beat the past few weeks, and this is coming from someone who's enjoyed the AJ saga (admittedly more around NWO time rather than the past 2 Raws with her antics getting a bit ridiculous).


----------



## Ali Dia

I will agree about Roode not being that superb in his control portions as his offense is pretty cut and dry basics, but at the same time I always wonder if Roode is just not quite in a zone yet as a singles guy because it's only been like a year where he has been a full time singles guy. You would think in say a year or so he can only get better.


----------



## AoM93

Segunda welcome back to the forum.We missed your analysis of matches.Could you please let us know your thoughts on Lesnar vs Cena


----------



## septurum

Sami Callihan vs Yoshihito Sasaki: Big Japan (March 26)- ****


----------



## WOOLCOCK

AoM93 said:


> Segunda welcome back to the forum.We missed your analysis of matches.Could you please let us know your thoughts on Lesnar vs Cena


Pretty much one of the most unique matches I've seen in some time, Cena at his absolute best as the underdog bumping for everything Lesnar dished out and utilising his facial expressions to signify the beating, the desperation, the pain and the resilience in his actions. Lesnar just unleashed brutally stiff offence from the forearms, to the kimura, to the knee to the ribs which sounded ridiculously painful and he took a couple of frightening bumps for a guy getting payed $5m for a select number of dates. The botch where he failed to clear the ropes and nearly broke his neck could have really taken away from the match in normal circumstances, but they managed to create this never before seen aura of chaos and legitimate violence for a WWE match that honestly Lesnar hobbling and smiling just made me forget the fall and focus on the next part of the match. They shifted from the MMA esque beginning into pro wrestling wonderfully, and the Backlund esque power spot with Cena deadlifting Lesnar out of the Kimura was just a superb spot to get the crowd behind him and serve as the transition, and Lesnar's facial expression of disbelief and pain perfectly captured the drama the spot was meant to signify. 

Chicago of all crowds being incredibly pro Cena in his comeback was a sight to behold, and rather than this be a super Cena comeback like people love to critique him on, this was one of his most hard earned comebacks which perfectly played off of Lesnar's domination and allowed Cena to still look like The Ace of the company, whilst in no way making Lesnar look like a chump. The 17 minute beating he unleashed on Cena was something most fans in that arena had never seen in their lives, and the more I watch the match the more I like the finish with Cena managing to pull a win out of his arse through sheer desperation and good timing, and Lesnar being momentarily knocked out of his comfort zone and then eating the pin. Its a shame they then rushed Cena into a feud with Johnny Ace where he reverted back to his stale character, because that one night in Chicago is the John Cena that everyone could get behind as a wrestler, and his post match promo which was incredible live with his limp arm and bloodied head was made obsolete when he was on Raw the next night and back to his pre Rock/Lesnar character.

But aye, the selling and facial expressions from both men were sublime, there was always something going in the match, Lesnar put in arguably one of his greatest heel performances, the crowd was alive with them every step of the way and its without doubt Cena's finest match in his best match type: hopelessly outmatched babyface v monster heel. It just had everything that makes pro wrestling separate from other sports and what makes it as popular as it can be, Bryan/Sheamus and Bryan/Punk were better wrestled in the purest sense, but nothing will come close to replicating the aura and nature of Lesnar/Cena this year (and if something does we'll be damn lucky IMO) and for that reason, its comfortably my MOTY. Although I concede part of the love affair with the match could be seeing it live and not expecting that level of violence and drama from a 2012 WWE match, whether it can stand the test of time remains to be seen but I've no arguments with calling it the MOTY and one of the best matches in company history.


----------



## Violent By Design

I agree with your assessment of Cena vs Lesnar completely Caida. 

I also agree with what you said of Daniels vs Styles (from what I read of it, didn't finish the post). I remember typing in another forum that I was going to go on a food break since Daniels vs Aj Styles in a "last man standing match" yells out lame to me. Both their styles are too soft for that match, and TNA in general has a robotic choreographic vibe that doesn't blend well with brawl type of matches. But I was glad I decided to stay and watch it, the last 5 minutes which lead up to the ending was done very well and made it all worth it.


----------



## Certified G

Seabs said:


> *Yoshihito Sasaki vs Yuji Okabayashi - BJW 21.06.2012*
> _You know how this goes by now. Great hard hitting slugfest. Finish is horrificly scary. Sasaki/Sekimoto for the title next month :mark:_
> 
> ******


Just watched this match. God, those headbutts at the end of the match are legit brutal. I don't think I've ever seen anyone headbutt like that. Even though I watch alot of deathmatches, I almost cringed at that because he gets busted open so bad the hard way. Very good match though, definitely enjoyed the hardhitting style.


----------



## Mattyb2266

Just got Death To All But Metal earlier today, just had time to check it out.

*Super Smash Brothers vs. The Young Bucks*
This was so much fun to watch. A lot of fun spots and holy shit moments. I think the fact that I watched it unspoiled (Didn't check out PWG's teaser for the show for once) helped out a lot. But anyways, check this match out.

****1/4

*Michael Elgin vs. Willie Mack*
Damn Elgin is a beast. Thats about all I can really say for this match. Definitely a great match, but not quite what I had hoped for.

***3/4

*El Generico vs. Richochet*
Yet another phenomenal match. Great match to end the show. Not the best main event ever, but still superb. 

****1/4

Do yourself a favor and check this show out.


----------



## Groovemachine

Finally got round to seeing the Tyson Kidd vs Michael McGillicutty match from NXT 6.20.12. What a match! They played off of a couple spots from their match earlier in the year just before Wrestlemania, so that was a nice touch, but man these guys just went out there and put on a clinic. It took me a while to track this match down but it's so worth it; this is the match that shows what Kidd is capable of. And I can't take anything away from McGillicutty either, he did a fantastic job of slowing the pace down and cutting off Kidd's offense. Also,let's not forget the commentary combo of Regal and JR, who did a splendid job calling the action, and really aided the proceedings by bringing up the wrestling families of both competitors.

For me, the match just about scrapes into **** territory. Check it out if you missed it.


----------



## Bubz

YES! More PWG in my life is only a good thing.

Need to check out those Kidd/McGillicuty matches. Heard nothing but great things.

Also heres hoping for another clinic from Punk/Bryan tonight, just hope this AJ stuff doesn't get in the way of the wrestling but I think it will .


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Randomly got onto watching some of the BJW Strong Climb tournament last night, only watched Callihan/Sasaki and Sasaki/Sekimoto, but I suggest Antonio not read past Callihan/Sasaki as IIRC he adored the shit out of Sasaki/Sekimoto (could be the wrong match for all I know, but I wanna say that's the one).

Anyways, rambling thoughts!~

*Sami Callihan v Yoshihito Sasaki, BJW Strong Climb Tournament Semi-Final (3/26/12)*

Man this was such a strange match, probably the most conflicted I've felt in a while. On the one hand I loathed a lot of what Callihan was doing, and at the same time thought he brought a lot to the match. The whole spitting on hands before a chop deal and telling Sasaki to 'fuck off' annoyed the shit out of me, maybe I've just watched too many people strongly communicate a range of emotions without haing to audibly swear multiple times throughout a match, but there wasn't one point where I thought 'oh I can really feel a sense of hatred in his voice', I mean christ the strikes alone were enough to tell even the most clueless of viewer that both men weren't best friends. Then seeing some of his crazed/angry facial expressions came off more Randy Orton esque than they did Terry Funk, and then his whole deal near the finishing stretch with the multiple kick outs at 1 followed by him popping up to take another and looking 'CRAZY~' (in fact I'd say laughable than crazy, and I'm somewhat of a Callihan fan compared to a few who are regulars in this thread)just didn't come off well to me, I appreciated they were going for a story of him basically refusing to stay down but each hit coming closer to finishing him, but the whole popping up deal and crazy eyes deal just didn't come close execution wise to say Hashimoto/Choshu. I also am really not a fan of the whole 'you chop me, I chop you mano a mano' sequences that seem to dominate in BJW: the strikes were excellent but it felt like a heavyweight spotfest with chops and forearms just replacing high flying spots and I can't defend it when I'd be critical of the same thing if it were a juniors match. That being said, Callihan's dive was super, I liked how they played off an early spot in the match where Sasaki countered a Callihan springboard attempt with a lariat, and then later when Callihan went to do a running boot he managed to block Sasaki's lariat attempt with a kick to the arm. The strikes as I said were fantastic, especially Sasaki's chops in the corner when Callihan was grounded. Finishing stretch wasn't awful bar the whole Callihan won't stay down deal, and I have to say Callihan looking legit fucked only to half play possum and hit a desperation delayed backdrop suplex was a much more creative and smart way to catch Sasaki off guard than just aimlessly hitting the move. Felt like a big spot in the match and I give them immense credit there. Still despite being a fan of well done stiff matches, I just don't enjoy watching two guys try and out-do one another in strike battles, I'd much prefer one guy to dominate the other and then force the other to respond later in the match, still that's a personal preference and I won't argue if people could look past that side issue and just adore the stiff as fuck chops.


*Yoshihito Sasaki v Daisuke Sekimoto, BJW Strong Climb Tournament Final, (3/26/12)*

Again, despite some things I liked in this match (near enough all down to Sasaki) I really think this just tells me that the whole BJW strong style scene might not be for me. I can certainly understand why the stiff strikes and power based offence appeals to people, but a lot of it just feels like one big ego spot where both men wish to assert their dominance by knocking the other down...and it just doesn't captivate me at all. Sekimoto here wasn't all that interesting, I thought him hitting a backdrop suplex on Sasaki's head and following immediately with a dive before slowly working over the neck was a bit strange, I dunno it was good psychology but I don't think Sekimoto is exactly skilled at making that sort of workover terribly engaging, seems better off in those Hama tags trying to find creative ways to topple a bigger and stronger opponent. Sasaki sold the neck very well for the most part (kind of ignored it from time to time in the big spot trading during the finish sequence) and he definitely proved a clear underdog role and the crowd were certainly pulling for him to win the match. HATED the top rope Michinoku Driver being a transition spot, that's the sort of thing I just cannot fathom and would have served as a great spot to kill Sekimoto's dominance and allow Sasaki an opening, but Sekimoto was up and hitting moves not some 30 seconds later and it came off as such a wasted spot. The two Germans being effectively rendered nothing with Sasaki popping up to hit a desperation lariat again didn't impress me, but I do concede fans of the match could use it as an argument of Sasaki just hitting one last big move out of instinct in order to win: its a fair argument even if I wouldn't personally agree. Near fall drama was quite good though and I liked the element of doubt in Sasaki winning before he unleashed one final lariat, if you were a regular BJW watcher and pulling for Sasaki to win I doubt they could have teased the loss any better before delivering the upset win, again being a rare watcher and not as invested in either guy it didn't make that connection with me but I can't argue against it appealing to a more regular BJW watcher.

Also between this match and the Sasaki/Okabayashi 6/21/12 match (again I was left rather apathetic to that match as well), WHAT IN THE FUCK is Sasaki thinking with those headbutts? I mean jesus christ that is just dangerously stiff for the sake of being dangerously stiff, I think it was the first one he hit on Okabayashi and you could hear the crack on the skull upon impact and it was quite sickening to hear, and the blood loss that followed the third and fourth headbutt was absurd. I mean it was around 15 seconds and he had blood entirely covering his face, and from what I've seen said in here it seems like one of his trademark spots in big matches, which is frankly horrifying if that is the case.


----------



## antoniomare007

Segunda Caida said:


> Randomly got onto watching some of the BJW Strong Climb tournament last night, only watched Callihan/Sasaki and Sasaki/Sekimoto, but I suggest Antonio not read past Callihan/Sasaki as IIRC he adored the shit out of Sasaki/Sekimoto (could be the wrong match for all I know, but I wanna say that's the one).
> 
> Anyways, rambling thoughts!~
> *Yoshihito Sasaki v Daisuke Sekimoto, BJW Strong Climb Tournament Final, (3/26/12)*
> 
> Again, despite some things I liked in this match (near enough all down to Sasaki) I really think this just tells me that the whole BJW strong style scene might not be for me. I can certainly understand why the stiff strikes and power based offence appeals to people, but a lot of it just feels like one big ego spot where both men wish to assert their dominance by knocking the other down...and it just doesn't captivate me at all. Sekimoto here wasn't all that interesting, I thought him hitting a backdrop suplex on Sasaki's head and following immediately with a dive before slowly working over the neck was a bit strange, I dunno it was good psychology but I don't think Sekimoto is exactly skilled at making that sort of workover terribly engaging, seems better off in those Hama tags trying to find creative ways to topple a bigger and stronger opponent. Sasaki sold the neck very well for the most part (kind of ignored it from time to time in the big spot trading during the finish sequence) and he definitely proved a clear underdog role and the crowd were certainly pulling for him to win the match. HATED the top rope Michinoku Driver being a transition spot, that's the sort of thing I just cannot fathom and would have served as a great spot to kill Sekimoto's dominance and allow Sasaki an opening, but Sekimoto was up and hitting moves not some 30 seconds later and it came off as such a wasted spot. The two Germans being effectively rendered nothing with Sasaki popping up to hit a desperation lariat again didn't impress me, but I do concede fans of the match could use it as an argument of Sasaki just hitting one last big move out of instinct in order to win: its a fair argument even if I wouldn't personally agree. Near fall drama was quite good though and I liked the element of doubt in Sasaki winning before he unleashed one final lariat, if you were a regular BJW watcher and pulling for Sasaki to win I doubt they could have teased the loss any better before delivering the upset win, again being a rare watcher and not as invested in either guy it didn't make that connection with me but I can't argue against it appealing to a more regular BJW watcher.
> 
> Also between this match and the Sasaki/Okabayashi 6/21/12 match (again I was left rather apathetic to that match as well), WHAT IN THE FUCK is Sasaki thinking with those headbutts? I mean jesus christ that is just dangerously stiff for the sake of being dangerously stiff, I think it was the first one he hit on Okabayashi and you could hear the crack on the skull upon impact and it was quite sickening to hear, and the blood loss that followed the third and fourth headbutt was absurd. I mean it was around 15 seconds and he had blood entirely covering his face, and from what I've seen said in here it seems like one of his trademark spots in big matches, which is frankly horrifying if that is the case.






























Gotta LOT of stuff to catch up to, but that is still my MOTY.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Like I said, I can see why someone hooked on the style would come out of that talking about the emotion in Sasaki's underdog story and praising the teased nearfalls etc. The argument I spoke about regarding the German suplexes-Lariat spot is something I can totally understand a huge fan of that match explaining as the completion of the story of Sasaki refusing to stay down and just hitting a now or never big move. But at the same time the spot has been done to death in much worse cases throughout Japan the past decade and I think at this point it would have to be done in a REALLY creative way for me to think any different towards it.

Basically I'd just say it didn't do enough to convince me that the style was something I can work my way through (I would call it the best out of the 3 matches I saw though, largely because of Sasaki's story of pulling out the big win), but I have no arguments with a staunch BJW fan thinking that is the dog's bollocks.


----------



## Bubz

I thought that match was great too.

I agree about Sasaki and the headbutts though, it's fucking retarded imo.


----------



## Bruce L

While I actually really enjoyed both of the BJ matches you mentioned, for Sasaki's underdog story in the final and the great job he and Callihan did in the semi of conveying that they hated each other with the fire of a thousand suns, I generally find that the whole Strong BJ style doesn't do much for me in singles matches. I do enjoy it in tags, though.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

*Tajiri v Finlay, SMASH (2/19/12)*

Really enjoyed this, and of the limited puro I've seen this year its comfortably #1 for me so far. Just a very well paced and built match, featuring some really intense matwork at the beginning which builds and builds and features some great struggles from both men to get into a dominant position, and they break up the matwork into Tajiri's kicks wonderfully and Finlay really makes sure to sell them as well as anyone I've seen. He just has this great panicked reaction where you can see him jump backwards from each kick and try to block the next one, and the spot where Tajiri finally picks a spot after a good 6/7 minutes of choice grappling and lands a few kicks to the thigh of Finlay, only for Finlay to instinctively counter into a drop toe hold and then RUB the thigh where the kicks landed whilst attempting a submission was just another smart touch that you expect from Finlay matches. Really thought the whole cautious and tentative nature with which they entered the grappling really added to whenever one would attempt a strike or signature move, you could feel the tension bubbling with each exchange ending in a stalemate and again enough good words can't be said about Finlay's selling of the kicks: whether he falls on his arse, tumbles out of the ring or just hobbles hopelessly away, you always sense the kicks are something he can't cope with and Tajiri only being able to land a few of them before Finlay finds a way to keep control really makes you eager for the moment where Tajiri can get sustained control and really hurt Finlay. Finlay was super with his taunts to the crowd and just general demeanour, and I loved him having a counter for Tajiri's offence, particularly the tarantula counter and subsequent headbutts, just ruthless and vicious and awesome all at once. Celtic Cross being thrown out mid match was a bit of a suprise, I gather the Tombstone has been his finisher in Japan, but it was still a little weird to see a move you associated as a match ender in WWE be tossed out mid match with little build: it did show Finlay wanted to end it there and then, but the way there wasn't much of a reaction to the kickout from the crowd or Finlay just further added to the confusion in it being executed there and then. Finishing stretch was wonderful in its simplicity, Tajiri finally gets momentum and uses the kicks again to hurt Finlay and the moment he finally reels off a buzzsaw kick to the head feels like a spot the crowd has been waiting for the entire match. I also really loved the struggle and tease of Tajiri being able to block the Tombstone for a second time...only for Finlay to finally catch him and end the match there and then.

Both men had some brilliant facial expressions, especially Tajiri whilst being worked over, and the whole aura of tension from each lockup to Finlay throwing sweat at Tajiri only for Tajiri to casually flick it onto the ropes with this great cold expression was glorious. Both men built superbly to the explosion of signature offence, Finlay added some amazing simplistic touches that no-one else will recreate this year (drop toe hold struggle for example) and overall it was just a really simple and nice match that focused on build and pacing towards the finish, and its a damn shame that I'll be lucky to see maybe 5 matches from Japan this year that will work a match similar to this. One of my favourite matches from Finlay's Indy/Japan tour.


----------



## Rickey

*WWE Money in the Bank 2012*-Daniel Bryan vs. CM Punk(c)-No Disqualification.


----------



## darkclaudio

WWE Money In The Bank 2012:

-Money In The Bank: Dolph Ziggler vs Damien Sandow vs Cody Rhodes vs Tensai vs Sin Cara vs Tyson Kidd vs Santino Marella vs Christian ***3/4
-World Heavyweight Championship: Sheamus vs Alberto Del Rio ***1/4
-The Colóns (Primo Colón & Épico Colón) vs The Prime Time Players (Titus O'Neil & Darren Young) **
-WWE Championship - No Disqualification Match: CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan ****1/2
-Ryback vs Curt Hawkins & Tyler Reks 1/2*
-Tamina Snuka, Kaitlyn & Layla vs Eve Torres & The Divas of Doom (The Beth Phoenix & Natalya) 1/2*
-Money In The Bank: John Cena vs Big Show vs Kane vs The Miz vs Chris Jericho ***1/2


----------



## Kid Kamikaze10

I'm throwing in DB vs Punk as well for MOTYC.

I think it was a great match with fantastic storytelling. Even the AJ parts, which many people apparently didn't understand for some reason. Hint hint, she just wanted to see both guys suffer.


----------



## seabs

*lol Punk/Bryan was the absolute minimum you'd expect from a match between those 2. Around ***. Everything else on the show sucked.*


----------



## seancarleton77

D. Bryan vs. CM Punk & The RAW Money in the Bank match ****+. Especially Punk/Bryan.


----------



## Violent By Design

I missed the first portion of CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan, but from what I saw it was great. Really enjoyed the slow pace and AJ making them fight for the steel chair and stuff.


----------



## djmathers1207

I missed half of Punk/Bryan


----------



## Bruce L

*Sheamus vs. Dolph Ziggler - No Way Out*

Caught up with this for no good reason, and WOW. It's no surprise that Ziggler went out there and busted his ass to have the match of the night, but I'm impressed with just how well Sheamus rose to his level. For me, this ranks above Sheamus/Bryan. I'm a little surprised that the general reaction to it at the time seemed to be positive but in kind of a muted way -- maybe due to a general feeling that as good as Ziggler is, it's kind of for nothing since the company never seems willing to really pull the trigger on him? Whatever the reason, I think it deserved more enthusiastic praise than it got.


----------



## Zatiel

Man, I wanted to like Punk/Bryan from MITB, and the very finish was super-dramatic stuff. But Ajay killed that match and made them look like idiots, fighting over a chair she dropped and daintily avoiding her in the corner. There's a point at which you are violent athletes beating each other's brains in and someone is getting off on manipulating you. It's no-DQ. Kick her head off so she can't screw you over yet again in this fight for the biggest championship in the world. 

But they can't do that, because it's PG WWE, and all of June and July was about making them look like morons around her. Made them spanking each other with kendo sticks even more farcical. 

And they tried. Crap, they took some cringe-worthy chair shots.


----------



## hardyorton

Punk and Bryan at MITB no DQ. another classic from these two. Intense and as violent as you are likely to get on WWE PG era.


----------



## Kid Kamikaze10

Finished watching Regal/Ambrose 2.

I wish the finish was different. And I wish the match was no DQ. Pretty much everything in the match made sense, but I'm really disappointed by the finish. I won't spoil it though.

This match had the potential to be MOTYC, but booking got in the way.


----------



## USAUSA1

punk and daniel bryan money in the bank was a little too long. ***3/4


----------



## EmbassyForever

WWE Money In The Bank:

Smackdown MITB: ***1/2
CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan: ***3/4


----------



## Bubz

Yeah I'd go ***1/2 for Punk/Bryan. Not amazing because of the AJ stuff butboth guys were great and I enjoyed it a lot. I agree with Seabs though that it was nowhere near what these guys can do together. I liked both their first RAW and SD matches better earlier this year.

Also the SD MITB is worth watching just to see Ziggler being a fucking mentalist.


----------



## seabs

*No need to watch the SD MITB now.*


----------



## Ali Dia

Youch!


----------



## Caponex75

Seabs said:


> *No need to watch the SD MITB now.*




That has to be my favorite spot all year.


----------



## wildpegasus

Smackdown MITB was incredible. I really liked the way it was put together and it's definitely top 10 fav materail for ladder matches. I really got caught up rooting for Ziggler and Kidd in this one. Ziggler is a fascinating wrestler whose body I'm worried about (and he bumps similar to Benoit, the chair bump was reminscent of something DK would do in Stampede in his early days) who you can tell is hungry as anything to succeed and is someone I really want to see in promotions outside the WWE to see how he'd do. That being said, I still want to see him do well in the WWE.

Punk vs Bryan was fun. AJ is absolutely incredible with her acting which is on such a different level than her peers.


----------



## Bubz

Yeah that spot was awesome. The springboard sunset flip powerbomb off the ladder spot was also ridiculous, looked like Ziggler had like no way to protect himself from falling on his face.


----------



## geraldinhio

:lmao I marked like hell for that spot. Kinda ironic it was by far and away the best spot in a ladder match. 

Only seen the Smackdown MITB yet, very sloppy at parts , in perticular Sin Cara. It's weird with Sin Cara, one minute his offence is as smooth as it gets and the next he's as sloppy as some wrestler you would see at a local Indy show. Tyson Kidd was great as usual too. Lot of botches in the match but still fun. 

Sheamus/Del Rio was very meh in my opinion. The main event scene in Smackdown is at it's lowest in years. I've still the RAW MITB to watch and Bryan/Punk. Kinda sad Bryan/Punk didn't life up to the lofty expectations by the sounds of things.


----------



## wildpegasus

BUBZ said:


> Yeah that spot was awesome. The springboard sunset flip powerbomb off the ladder spot was also ridiculous, looked like Ziggler had like no way to protect himself from falling on his face.


 The entire crowd thought so too. Man, I really wanna see Kidd go far in the WWE.

Ziggler like other greats in the past has won over the audience despite being a heel because he's plain awesome


----------



## Kid Kablam

geraldinhio said:


> :Kinda sad Bryan/Punk didn't life up to the lofty expectations by the sounds of things.


Depends who you talk to. I've heard a number of people say it started slow, but I though it was methodical and vicious. Bryan did a great job of ramping up the brutality, and they both did a great job setting up the weapons violence.

I loved it, but I'm not surprised that not everyone did.

Sheamus/Del Rio was weird. I like both guys, but nothing worked at all. No real pacing, just moves.

Smackdown MiTB was ok. Ziggler was the MVP, but it wasn't anything I hadn't seen before. Maybe I shouldn't have watched Hardys/E&C/Dudleys triangle ladder the night before.


----------



## seancarleton77

Kid Kamikaze10 said:


> Finished watching Regal/Ambrose 2.


There is no other match I'd rather see, besides Bryan vs. Cena. Where did you find it?


----------



## KingKicks

Seabs said:


> *No need to watch the SD MITB now.*


Legit the best thing on the show.

Though I did enjoy the Bryan/Punk match, it would probably be around ***3/4 for me.


----------



## Shepard

seancarleton77 said:


> There is no other match I'd rather see, besides Bryan vs. Cena. Where did you find it?







about 23 minutes in.

It's good. I'll agree about the finish being a bit off. I'll put it in spoiler tags though



Spoiler: .



It just felt really sudden. Lots of things about the match were great, like Regals control stretch and how similar it was to the first match and even how he and Ambrose played off his shoulder being reinjured in the Rollins match a couple weeks back. Then Regals expression when Ambrose kept getting up after the stair spot unlike the first match where he was broken or thereabouts by then. Then Ambrose bust open Regal's ear and it stopped. I felt like they could at least have gotten a few more minutes of Ambrose being a sick bastard of it and spent less time having trainers and refs keeping them apart. But the last few minutes were great, from Ambrose applying the Regal stretch to Regal applauding the superstar he's helped "mould" almost over the last year, great visual. 

One more thing from this I realised is that Regal can still make limbwork look more painful and realistic than 90% of the roster. He needs more matches



Punk/Bryan was alright, about the only match from MiTB I can say that about. ****1/2*


----------



## WOOLCOCK

*William Regal v Dean Ambrose II- The Final Encounter*

EVERYONE go watch this like asap. Such a wonderfully constructed match paying homage to the entire focus of the feud, and a brilliantly extended opening with Regal torturing Ambrose with some of the nastiest holds I've seen inside a WWE ring. It all builds and builds with you not believing that Ambrose will be put away despite the disgusting abuse of his left arm (the same arm that Regal dislocated 1 year ago), and the moment where he catches Regal off guard and becomes the aggressor is just amazing. Regal sells everything in such a legit way you actually question if he may actually be legit fucked, Ambrose popping his shoulder back into place before going on the offensive was just such an awesome little character quirk and the way he hovers over a defenceless Regal has this really eerie atmosphere where you feel like you're about to watch a man be endlessly abused without any ability to stop the agony. Ambrose working over a BLOODY EAR of Regal like a vicious pitbull was totally awesome, and the extended selljob of Regal appearing to be on his last legs only to pull off one little moment of genius to catch Ambrose off guard was such a superb 'veteran' spot. The whole ending could be divisive, but just consider this: the whole feud was about Regal acknowledging Ambrose possessed the Regal esque viciousness to end his career, and yet the sick bastard wanted to fight him because to walk away and hide from such a beating was just not in his nature. The entire build throughout the match culminating in the ending was what this feud had built up to: Ambrose having Regal in a scarily vulnerable position and having his career in his hands. Go into the match with that ideology and I can't see you hating the finish. It really couldn't have been executed much better. And the final bit of action (you'll know it when you see it) was just the absolute embodiment of the clash of characters and the definitive ending to this absolutely stupendous long term angle.


----------



## 777

Read Segunda's review and watch the Ambrose/Regal rematch. Fuck yeah!


----------



## Bubz

Watched Regal/Ambrose II. The match itself was so good with the story they told, it did seem to me like Shep said they cut it a bit too short for me to call it amazing or anything like that. Regal's work-over was just brilliance though, and what was even better was Ambrose yelling at Regal 'you better take it home with you!' while Regal was working over the arm, or else he would find a way to fuck Regal up, and that's exactly what happened. The post match stuff was something else though. Just awesome. Ambrose just 'gets it', brilliant all around wrestler. I'd give the match about ***3/4, had it gone on 5 minutes longer with the same finish I would have it higher. In terms of the story like Segunda said, the finish worked completely.

If the match did have a proper finish I would have loved to have seen Regal pass out in the regal Stretch after having his ear completely destroyed for a longer period of time.


----------



## Last Chancery

I'd say Punk/Bryan was ***3/4 to ****, but certainly no higher. This one didn't catch me quite as much as the Over the Limit match, which was pure wrestling at its finest and a good ****1/2. This one felt a little gimmicky between AJ being the referee (and her ref bump) and the No DQ rule. I'm growing a little tired of the typical WWE main event style brawl matches, which seem to always feature the usual chairs and singapore canes, maybe a table. I don't know, I think they can better craft the stipulations around Bryan and Punk as wrestlers -- give them a submission match, an Iron Man match, whatever -- but No DQ doesn't seem to mesh very well with their more mat-based styles.

Still a watchable match, lots of good bits in there, but a little disappointing from both, given what they're capable of producing.


----------



## TelkEvolon

I love pure wrestling sitpulaion matches like Submission, Iron Man, 2/3 falls. More of them should used, especially with talent like this.

I also think they'd have a great cage match.


----------



## Lane

*CZW live in Miami*
*Lightube bundles, Danny Havoc vs Lucky 13*
****

This match was superb and centerd around the wrestling. Lucky did some really nice american lucha spots (hand springs, Genericos jump to the top rope diving moonsault, moonsault double knees, and a rana off the top rope to the outside) Havoc can go in the ring pretty decently. The lightubes were just add ons to most of the moves that they were doing so that it wasnt just them hitting one another.

Kevin Steen & Sami Callihan on commentary make it that much better.


----------



## ninetwentyfour

Lane said:


> *CZW live in Miami*
> *Lightube bundles, Danny Havoc vs Lucky 13*
> ****
> 
> This match was superb and centerd around the wrestling. Lucky did some really nice american lucha spots (hand springs, Genericos jump to the top rope diving moonsault, moonsault double knees, and a rana off the top rope to the outside) Havoc can go in the ring pretty decently. The lightubes were just add ons to most of the moves that they were doing so that it wasnt just them hitting one another.
> 
> Kevin Steen & Sami Callihan on commentary make it that much better.


Where can I watch this?


----------



## Lane

its a bonus match on the CZW TOD XI dvd. Also features DJ Hyde vs Drake Younger from the same show. Not as good as Lukcy vs Havoc but still good and end stretch was fucking great.


----------



## Certified G

Lane said:


> *CZW live in Miami*
> *Lightube bundles, Danny Havoc vs Lucky 13*
> ****
> 
> This match was superb and centerd around the wrestling. Lucky did some really nice american lucha spots (hand springs, Genericos jump to the top rope diving moonsault, moonsault double knees, and a rana off the top rope to the outside) Havoc can go in the ring pretty decently. The lightubes were just add ons to most of the moves that they were doing so that it wasnt just them hitting one another.
> 
> Kevin Steen & Sami Callihan on commentary make it that much better.


These 2 also had a very good match at Deja Vu 5, it wasn't just bumps and blood, they actually did nice wrestling moves which I thought was a good change.


----------



## Lane

The Corre said:


> These 2 also had a very good match at Deja Vu 5, it wasn't just bumps and blood, they actually did nice wrestling moves which I thought was a good change.


Ive read really good things about that match but have never seen it. I know Lucky got a pretty nasty cut and one of them took a bump into a truck bed flled with tubes I belive.


----------



## Certified G

Yeah I think Lucky got a pretty big cut right under his armpit, and there was indeed a big final spot involving a small truck filled with lighttubes. (Y)


----------



## Chismo

Punk/Bryan (MITB) was solid, nothing more. The booking anally raped this match. **1/2



Segunda Caida said:


> *Tajiri v Finlay, SMASH (2/19/12)*


This match was great, but lacked some drama and excitement to enter the **** territory, IMO. Great old school grappling, and the post match shit was touching. ***3/4


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I can agree it was hardly spell binding, and the crowd really weren't that terrific bar rallying behind Tajiri when he got close to a comeback. Still I wouldn't say it lacked drama, they established a wonderful sense of tension during the grappling and lock up exchanges, and you could tell the match could break down into a physical affair at any moment and I was constantly gripped watching each exchange just waiting for that moment of physicality and Tajiri's strike flurry after 6 minutes of tight grappling was just a wonderful build that you don't see anywhere else in Japan these days: if this was any other promotion you would have already had some pedestrian hold trading with little purpose, or some god awful 'I stand here and let you chop me, then you stand there and let me chop you back' spot that I absolutely HATE.

I can see why people wanted it to kick into a higher gear, and maybe my love for it is only escalated by how crap a lot of other title matches are in Japan, but the slow build, the selling of Tajiri's signature offence and its importance in him potentially winning the match as well as the little things Finlay added to the match (struggle in executing a drop toe hold takedown, and rubbing his thigh when he had Tajiri in a submission moments after Tajri had unleashed a string of kicks to his leg) just impressed me so much I couldn't fault it.


----------



## seabs

*Kevin Steen vs Brian Cage-Taylor - PWG Death To All But Metal*
_Super little match. Steen was really fantastic in this I thought. First half is really fun with the crowd banter and Steen doing comedy spots with BCT's physique. Second half it steps up and turns into a really good little inexperienced underdog challenger title match. Taylor kinda just comes along for the ride at times but his spots are great and that's enough to get him over with the structure of the match along with Steen's performance. Made him look super while maintaining the established hierarchy. Finish is perfect. Really good little match mixed in with all the usual PWG enjoyment. Probably get well looked over kinda like NVC/RockNES last year._

*****1/4*

*Super Smash Brothers vs Young Bucks - No DQ - PWG Death To All But Metal*
_As strong of a contender for MOTY as Naito/Okada and Ibushi/Hino are. Crowd brawling off the off was fucking super. Felt totally chaotic and hate driven. No care for making the spots look neat and tidy, just a really great uncoordinated but not sloppy brawl which set the tone of the match just perfectly. Workover was awesome. Chair spot which eliminates Supafly from the match was incredible. Bucks cut out the goofyness which helps the match a lot. Super workover, great dickness from Bucks and great at keeping Supafly out to maintain the 2 on 1 advantage. Could have done without the tombstone on the apron not being sold. Table spot was immense. Can live with Matt coming back from it because it was do or die at that point and it was near enough to the finish. Near fall that leads to Knox being taken out was incredible. Awesome superkick on Knox too. Sets up the actual finish wonderfully well too. Knox clothesline on Bucks is always a super spot. Maybe a bit goofy but it fits in PWG and more importantly this particular match. Tremendously well paced. Couple of selling issues but at least they were to deliver more greatness and they weren't that off putting. Put SSB over really well too. Steen's legit tremendous on commentary and not just in a goofy way either._

*****1/2*

*El Generico vs Ricochet - PWG Death To All But Metal*
_Generico and Ricochet both turn up and don't have a bad day. Even the terrible posters on here can figure out how this goes. It's not a coincide either how Ricochet's turned into a great worker since going to Dragon Gate._

*****1/4*


----------



## jawbreaker

So fucking glad to hear you liked Steen/Cage-Taylor. Even more hyped now. Same thing happened last year with NVC/RockNES where it didn't get a ton of hype and then you were like "hey this is really good" and then I thought it was one of the best things I'd ever seen.


----------



## Lane

Chalk me up for all the PWG matches Seabs listed. Every one of those was beyond epic.


----------



## Bubz

Fuck yeah! Lets hope PWG gets on the ball again like the last three years. Can't wait to watch that show.


----------



## Caponex75

Oh my......I hope these matches are actually good. Usually postive reviews from Seabs mean the opposite. :batista2


----------



## justice4joepa

No it doesn't. He may seem a bit too loving of PWG, but there's nothing wrong with that. What Alan4L is to puro, Seabs is to PWG.


----------



## seancarleton77

Regal and Ambrose would school everyone in PWG.


----------



## blink_41sum_182

Might be overrating this but...

PWG Death to All But Metal

Super Smash Brothers vs. Young Bucks
*
**** 3/4*


----------



## FITZ

The Bucks/ Smash Brothers has a Rick Knox clothesline in it? That automatically makes it a classic.


----------



## antoniomare007

They should've known that you NEVER fuck with Rick Knox


----------



## dk4life

Super Smash Brothers vs Young Bucks - No DQ - PWG Death To All But Metal - ****1/4
Fucking loved this match, some crazy spots aswell, first Fatality was alittle drawn out like Duo wasn't going to hit it or was slipping, only bit I didn't like, but the belly to belly suplex to the outside by Player Duo was freaking awesome! seemed there was alot of hatred between these 2 teams aswell! I hate anyone coming into the match, but Knox clothesline was great, and as Seebs said, set up the finish rather well, but pretty much non stop action from start to finish! 
My current MOTY!


----------



## Lane

PWG needs to book Steen vs Knox for the title.


----------



## Chismo

Finally, people are appreciating The SSB, they're busting their asses off across the country for ages now. The best tag team in North America this year.


----------



## Bubz

seancarleton77 said:


> Regal and Ambrose would school everyone in PWG.


Steen or Generico vs either one of them would probably be great.


----------



## Zatiel

I would very much appreciate Generico Vs. Regal.


----------



## seancarleton77

Regal vs. Generico would be great, although, Generico would probably be murdered by Regal.


----------



## Caponex75

Meh, I'd rather see Sheamus vs. Generico.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

LUCHA GOODNESS~!

*Black Terry vs Chico Che, IWRG (01/22/12)*

A lot to love about this match, some pretty intense and awesome brawling featuring a plethora of nasty headbutts, stiff chops and some ugly boots to the face. Terry also manages to hit one insane punch that you only catch a glimpse of but it looks to land just on the jaw of Che and it looks hideous. Terry was far and away the better performer here, selling like mad the beating he's taken and the desperation in his comebacks, the camerawork is always a treat in IWRG and they really get some awesome visuals of Terry in the corner sucking on wind and trying to regain his composure. Che was hit or miss, he hit some really nasty chops and headbutts but for the most part had sub-par punches, and played too the crowd far too much which resulted in some awkward seconds of inaction and which didn't seem appropriate for the match they were working. He also had a couple of really sloppy moments of execution including a corner boot which missed by a foot and a really tame looking running knee in the corner. They also worked a really absurd and nonsensical headscissors sequence which was incredibly out of place and felt really tacky and serving little purpose. Spot of the match was either Terry's insane kidney punch followed by Che's awesome punch combo culminating in Terry taking this great KO sell or the Che tope and both men lying bloodied on the floor just headbutting each other at any chance they got. You felt the hate, both men bleed a ton and Terry in particular really captures this transformation from underdog babyface to psycho monster superbly, such a shame that the well executed finish was botched with Che's shoulder being up before the 3 count. Still the good far outweighed the bad and this served as a great introduction to the Hair vs Hair match a week later.


*Black Terry vs Chico Che, IWRG Hair vs Hair Match, (01/29/12) *

I'd say overall I preferred this to the first match, but there were a couple of really bad moments which dampened the overall quality of the match. Che was much better here than in the lead in match, a lot less pandering and crowd interaction and more meat behind his punches, headbutts and kicks. His beating in the first and second caida just became more and more vicious as the minutes ticked by and Terry was his usual awesome selling self, looking on the verge of passing out from the blood loss and clutching his ribs for minutes after eating the splash at the end of the first fall. Whole shenanigans with Che's right hand man constantly proving a thorn in Terry's side was superbly played out throughout the match, and the moment in the third fall where Terry just launches a chair at him was incredible. Terry's comeback was short and sweet in the second fall, which was probably for the best given the beating he ate, though I do think it could have been executed/looked better. Third fall was probably the most divisive fall, Che hits a nasty tope and eats a particularly bad landing, both right hand men get more involved throughout which leads to some nice chaotic brawling between all four men and really emphasises the significance of the match, the headbutt exchange in the corner between both was just absolutely disgustingly stiff, and Terry pulls off some amazing punches in between. Terry's right hand man also hits a stunning tope on Che's right hand man to take him out, looked absolutely insane with the speed he got as he flew through the ropes as well as the landing with both men just flying into the chairs. Sadly the spot where the corrupt ref got taken out was horribly executed, Che taking forever was at least nice selling of the beating (something both men did tremendously, from the heavy breathing to the delayed setups of particular moves), but the ref lying so close to Terry was such lazy telegraphing of the spot and then Terry pulls the ref to the mat, rolls a couple of inches away from and a good 5 seconds later Che somehow hits the ref and completely misses Terry. Just looked so shoddy and poorly timed and really dampened what had been a fine match up until that spot. Finish whilst also quite brilliant in a 'Rudo pisses all over the crowd's hopes' moment was also quite anticlimatic, although I did appreciate Che's right hand man kicking Terry in the balls being the setup to the finish, and despite Terry's right hand man ensuring he wouldn't play another part in the match, the continuing match story of Terry being unable to shake off the right hand man was built to excellently and served as a nice payoff. I'd say this just edges out as my favourite of the two, thanks to a much more tolerable and all round more pleasing Che performance, as well as the constant spots involving the right hand men. But fuck me if it weren't for that awful ref spot this would be a lot higher on any eventual MOTYC list from me.

I do however have high hopes the next batch of Lucha I get around to might do much better in terms of being a potential MOTYC, especially a TXT Tag that has been getting staunch reviews ever since it hit the web.


----------



## Bubz

*PWG Death To All But Metal*

*Kevin Steen vs. Brian Cage Taylor - PWG World Title Match*
Match is really funny to start with, as soon as they go into a lock up Steen shouts ‘Oh Fuck!’ and gets thrown down and asks Cage to be his personal trainer. Great stuff. There’s a really good little story in this one with Steen playing the veteran and Cage playing the new inexperienced guy making a few mistakes and allowing Steen to get the upper hand on a few occasions. Steen going after every part of Cage’s body was funny as well as something I’ve never really seen done before lol. Cage botched a spot and there was another thing that didn’t look as good as it should have, but the guy is really impressive. I thought the finish was a bit sudden but it played into the story of the match really well. Great match. ****¾*

*The Young Bucks vs. Super Smash Brothers - No DQ Tag Title Match*
I love how chaotic PWG No DQ matches feel, especially the crowd brawling. Loved the way they structured this match with The Bucks completely dominating the majority and being awesome heels constantly cutting off any comebacks by SSB. I thought a few spots from The Bucks looked a tad overly choreographed but that’s nit picking really when the match was this fun. Table spot was awesome, ref bumps were really good, the near falls were so well done towards the end. Rick Knox getting revenge with a lariat was fucking hilarious and awesome and so was Steen going mental on commentary because he hates YB’s so much. Really really fun match. ******

*Michael Elgin vs. Willie Mack*
This was awesome. Just a full on powerhouse match from the start with great back and forth action and ridiculous moves. Some of the shit Elgin did was insane and Mack was great too. Delayed vertical suplex, chaos theory and the deadlift powerbomb were all completely sick from Elgin. ****1/2*

*El Generico vs. Ricochet*
This match actually had a great story going in, but I didn’t expect this type of match out of these two. It really felt like a grudge match, and there was definitely a sense that these two didn’t like each other. The story is basically Ricochet being the only guy in PWG to out quick Generico, and Generico didn’t like that one bit so they started this rivalry. This was awesome because the story was evident all the way through with Ricochet getting the advantage and acting cocky toward Generico. Ricochet’s control segment was great, he went after the neck and was constantly mocking Generico and taunting him. I didn’t expect that kind of performance from him. Generico keeps getting cut off and it seems like Ricochet really has his number all the way through. Even in the finishing stretch it was mostly Ricochet as he had a counter and a reversal to everything Generico was going for. Some sick spots towards the end and I loved the part were Ricochet was just toying around and Generico just snapped and starting throwing wild slaps. Loved the story they told and the action was so fluid. Generico was great as the underdog as he always is, but Ricochet was brilliant playing this guy who knew he was quicker and knew he was in control acting like a dick. The guy has really turned into a great wrestler. Awesome match. *****1/4*


----------



## seabs

*Seth Rollins vs Dean Ambrose - FCW 24.06.2012*
_Falls just short of nominating it as a MOTYC but it's more than worth a watch. First half is very passable. Their attempted chain wrestling isn't all that good and Ambrose isn't cut out to be doing stuff like that. Crowd is completely dead too. Not quiet in an anxiously observing type of way. Just not interested. There's 2 guys in the front row having a chat not even facing the ring. Loved the tension before the start from both men and contributed to also by Regal on commentary. Second half is great though and picks right up once Ambrose starts selling the fuck out of the arm. Downtime on the outside is brilliant with Ambrose trying to pop his shoulder back in. Transitions really well into Ambrose attacking the leg in a last ditch effort to survive. Both guys' limb selling rocked. Really nice lead into Regal vs Ambrose too with Regal on commentary, the shoulder angle and Rollins even using the Regal Stretch. Cesaro and Regal have unreal chemistry on commentary together considering this was probably their first taping together. There last 2 matches smoked this though._

*William Regal vs Dean Ambrose - FCW 15.07.2012*
_Glorious. Awesome example of getting the most of very little. Tone is set perfectly with Regal's entrance. Adored the first half of the match with Regal just schooling Ambrose working the shoulder. Sucks we don't get more of this Regal where he just takes kids to school all match. There was a NXT match last year with JTG that's just Regal schooling jobbers and it ruled. Ambrose's selling carries right from where it left off in the Rollins match but William fucking Regal working it over this time. Loved the spot where Regal just nonchalantly walked on Ambrose's head into the ring. Regal doing the "I have till 5" shtick made me smile so much inside. Ring post bump was a great transition spot and Regal's selling from that point is some of the best you'll see all year. Pace slows right down so you can really appreciate what they're doing. Finish is a super angle. Could have been done better without the ref stoppage but it's an awesome angle for a finish and you don't get enough of them so I'm fucking taking this. Completely something out of the Memphis wrestling textbook. Gets plenty of time to get the angle over and it would have been ruined if it was rushed. Makes Ambrose look awesome and fits in with the Regal/Ambrose story perfectly. Probably another reason for watching Ambrose/Rollins before is that Regal gets the story over perfectly in that match heading into this talking about how he respects what Ambrose is but fears he'll be the end of him. Regal Stretch and the knee at the end were the perfect icing on the cake of the whole angle. No more Regal would be such a sad thing but it seemed like his last match. Last significant match for the time being at least. Awesome stuff. Their first match was stronger but this is more about having a really good match and then doing a big angle which it totally succeeded at was about as perfect as you can get for what it was meant to be._


----------



## Cactus

*El Generico vs Ricochet - PWG Death To All But Metal (2012/05/25)*
This is how you work a 'back-and-forth' match. On the surface this does somewhat resemble your typical PWG match, but this goes much deeper. The whole backstory is that Ricochet is the only guy to out-quick Generico and that is exactly how the momentum shifts work here. Whoever is the quickest guy during the transitions and sequences takes control. This later evolves into who can hit the hardest. Things go a tad all over the place during the finishing stretch but they manged to get everything sorted out to set up a great finish. It's great to see Ricochet improve as a worker, and Generico is Generico. My current PWG match of the year.
*****1/4*


----------



## jawbreaker

please stop using the phrase "typical PWG match"


----------



## Cactus

jawbreaker said:


> please stop using the phrase "typical PWG match"


Why so? 90% of all PWG matches are quite similar. Hell, I'm not even shitting on their formula. I enjoy it.


----------



## seabs

*PWG matches don't all follow the same structure so unless you mean it's fucking awesome, then "typical PWG match" doesn't really mean much to me either. Take the last show for example. Steen/Cage was a veteran/rookie type match with Cage trying to step up and prove himself along with some humour added into it. Bucks/SSB is a pretty by the books PWG hardcore brawl. Ricochet/Generico was more of a traditional beginning - middle - end structure with Ricochet controlling the middle before Generico came back at the end. All of them I'd call recurring PWG type matches so calling something a "typical PWG match" wouldn't really tell me much about the match other than it's probably awesome and really fun to sit through.

"Typical PWG undercard match" you could get away with but their bigger matches definitely vary enough in style and structure.*


----------



## Chismo

jawbreaker said:


> please stop using the phrase "typical PWG match"


Ok, EmbassyForever.


----------



## EmbassyForever

JoeRulz said:


> Ok, EmbassyForever.


?


----------



## SHIRLEY

My definition of "typical PWG match" would be a spotfest that appeals to fans under the age of 20.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Does that make the definition of a typical ROH main event a match that would appeal to people impressed by sub-par MMA?


*and this is coming from someone who is hardly a strong PWG fan, or who even really watches many matches from the promotion. But there's something to be said for lambasting the PWG style of wrestling whilst ROH continues to put out the 'quality' in their style.


----------



## Emperor DC

Segunda Caida said:


> Does that make the definition of a typical ROH main event a match that would appeal to people impressed by sub-par MMA?
> 
> 
> *and this is coming from someone who is hardly a strong PWG fan, or who even really watches many matches from the promotion. But there's something to be said for lambasting the PWG style of wrestling whilst ROH continues to put out the 'quality' in their style.


If it involves Davey Richards, yes.


----------



## Caponex75

What does Richards do that screams MMA in the ring besides a mouth piece? If anything he is to much of a puro Kings Road style AJPW nerd but really stop. The closet thing to a MMA bit that I've seen in ROH is that O'Reily/Cole match and you all were going bananas for that. Sheezh that annoys me. Hell, Punk/Danielson have been doing MMA nonsense than he has.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

It was a jibe at Crabtree for his long documented distain for PWG's style, when in the past he's often praised ROH matches which many others would argue represents the style he resents in PWG.

I haven't watched a Richards match since whenever that Elgin match was broadcast, since I've reached the point where his style of wrestling does nothing for me and I'll only bother to watch a match of his when I see people with close to similar tastes as myself rep a match/his performance to insane degrees. The MMA bit was just the first thing that came to my mind with some of his promos and comments regarding MMA and Pro Wrestling as well as some his matches that I could use as a joke given Crabtree's ridiculous generalisation of the PWG style.


----------



## Caponex75

Oh I can agree that Crab is downright silly with these PWG haterade comments but that Richards MMA thing has always been something that annoys me(You just happened to be the last guy to mention it). His MMA gimmick is bad but his in ring has always been puro inspired and I hate how people slam someone else when guys like Danielson & Punk blatantly do it. It's annoying. Guys were stiff and exchanging strikes way before 2006 and it is honestly not new. With all that being said, let us move on and talk about how great the NOAH show looks coming up on the 22nd.


----------



## Caponex75

Also I think you meant Cactus.


----------



## Bubz

Les Kellett Lariat said:


> My definition of "typical PWG match" would be a spotfest that appeals to fans under the age of 20.


:kobe


----------



## Cactus

Caponex75 said:


> Also I think you meant Cactus.


Nah. He didn't mean me. I'm a fan of PWG.

To reply to Seabs, outside of the odd matches like Steen/Cage and Generico/Ricochet, all the matches from PWG's recent show (and most PWG shows) are very similar. 80% of PWG's matches are fun spotfests with comedic undertones (SSB vs The Young Bucks included, I didn't see the hype with this match). 'PWG style' is basically 'ROH style' (and most US Indies for that matter) taken less seriously, hence it is much easier to sit through. I hate to be the black sheep here, but I can't see PWG matches holding up well in say 20 years, excluding matches like the Steen/Generico ladder match and Generico/Ricochet.


----------



## Lane

On the subject of Davey Richards and doing the terrible american puro MMA gimmick, he either A.Want to be Japanese or B.Kenny Omega/Prince Devitt


----------



## Violent By Design

PWG is bland to me. I need more matches with soul to really enjoy them.

I am open to trying out some new PWG matches this year if I can find it. But I remember the last time I gave PWG a go in 2010, I didn't think it was much different from ROH (in terms of pimped matches, not full cards).


----------



## Bubz

You'll find a hell of a lot more soul in some PWG matches than any ROH matches these days.


----------



## SHIRLEY

Haven't really watched ROH for quite a few months but, last I heard, the champion was a hardcore/gimmick/comedy wrestler. The Pancrase-influenced main-event style that brought ROH to the dance has, largely, been lost - along with the wrestling/writing talents that understood that sub-genre...and, seemingly, the fans that were educated to what the intentions of the company's output were.

As for Davey's Jiu-Jitsu persona, it's exactly the kind of socially-reflective booking that tends to get lost on fans that are stuck in the wrestling bubble.

In my estimation, Davey has been one of the only valuable players in recent wrestling history. That shows in his proven ability to give excellent financial returns on any given company's investment in him, and in the level of critical acclaim that he's achieved. Those are the kind of tangible, factual things, that can be converted into money/fan engagement/storytelling/branding deliciousness...in the real world.

I don't see any similar attributes in the "typical PWG match". PWG, as a whole, is largely devoid of the kind of deep-rooted, consistent mythology, or (relative) social relevance, that makes any good fiction work.

I'd agree that ROH has lost a large amount of it's depth and it's brand identity, and has fallen into the trap of only appealing to, what Billy Corgan recently referred to as, 'the boys in black t-shirts'. Personally, I preferred ROH when the booker was smarter than me (Gabe).

Back on topic...

With a couple of exceptions, I've never really enjoyed a PWG show because the promotion just doesn't have any substantial culture around it. This shows in "typical PWG matches" that don't increase the company's drawing power, don't develop marketable personas/angles for wrestlers and, artistically, don't influence anything or anyone. The fact that teenagers can parody the traditional ROH "kickpads" style, on message boards, is proof enough that ROH has/had a wider meaning.

By the way, if I remember rightly, 2012's most needle-moving match to date was Davey vs. Elgin in a throwback "lolstiffmma" match. Was it not?


----------



## Lane

PWG has amazing wrestling in a wrestling company. Hot damn. (Taken from a member on a diff forum) Despite the fact that there's been a lot of title changes on the anniversary shows, PWG has never seen a title change on a Threemendous. So theres a story. PWG has Bucks vs pretty much every member of the roster. Joey vs Candice when she comes by. Future Shock building themselves up as a top team.


----------



## Sephiroth

The Dark Knight Rises
*Sewer Fight*: Batman vs. Bane Round 1 - *******

Bane proved himself as the spunky newcomer, but that work rate by Batman. The man knows his psychology and how to sell.


----------



## Bubz

Seph you've seen it? Don't want to go into the thread because of spoilers. How was it?

Sorry, back on topic...

I just watched Ibushi vs Hino from DDT 24/6 and thought it was really good but not a MOTYC personally. I guess I don't really watch DDT much and didn't really care that much for the guys in it and so wasn't fully invested, but the story they told was really great. Had a few botches but they didn't take anything away from the story or the overall action. First time seeing Hino and he seemed really good. Ibushi is just a great underdog. Probably around the **** mark. Probably didn't help that I'm really fucking tired right now.


----------



## Sephiroth

So amazing. Right now, I'm thinking it is my favorite in the trilogy. BANE steals the show.


----------



## Caponex75

Sephiroth said:


> The Dark Knight Rises
> *Sewer Fight*: Batman vs. Bane Round 1 - *******
> 
> Bane proved himself as the spunky newcomer, but that work rate by Batman. The man knows his psychology and how to sell.


****1/4+

To much no selling on Bane's part but his promo work was great. This was what Cena/Lesnar should of been.


----------



## Sephiroth

I think it was necessary for the no selling to really make the audience see how badass and tough Bane is. Then the stakes are even higher for the rematch.


----------



## smitlick

Yeah it needed to build up to Batman having a chance the 2nd time. If he beats Bane down the 1st time, then theres no point in the rest of the movie.


----------



## Corey

Yeah, Bane looked like such a badass with all the no selling and Batman bumped like crazy. Really reminded me of the old Benoit/Sullivan matches in a sense. 

The rematch on the other hand, epic. Bane's selling gets a little weak near the end but you can just feel the anger and emotion coming from that guy. Would've been nice with a clean finish but I can give it a good ****1/2.


----------



## Bubz

Tom Hardy could no-sell a rocket launcher being shot at his face and still be fucking awesome.


----------



## Rah

An epic encounter, no doubt, but I feel the Aurora Premiere Night Deathmatch will go under many of your radars. James Holmes absolutely killed it.


----------



## Bubz

*Yuji Nagata vs Suwama AJPW CC 5/5/12*
Awesome match right here! Great story and just a war right from the start basically. I loved how they were so evenly matched and neither of them could get the advantage in the first few minutes when they were trading holds and Suwama was going for the belly to belly which was a recurring theme throughout the match, but Nagata just wouldn't let it happen. It just breaks down into a slug fest once Nagata has Suwama in the ropes and slaps him. Nagata eventually works the neck and it's a really good work over, with greatt selling from Suwama. I loved how Suwama saw an opnening and wet for the ankle lock out of desperation to try and make Nagata tap. It was also a great transition in finally weakening Nagata enough so Suwama could start hitting some of his bigger moves. Loved the finishing stretch, but I could have done without the suplex exchange just before, but it came off better than it usually does because of the pauses in between them, it wasn't just one straight after the other in quick succession so it came off as desperation more than anything, but I still would have preferred it to be left out. The last 5 minutes are awesome with Nagata's offense constantly going after the neck with backdrops and brainbusters and what not, Suwama just throws everything he can at Nagata and his facial expressions of desperation and exhaustion are top notch all the way through. I also loved the way Suwama would get back in the match because Nagata would get too cocky for his own good on occasions. The finish was really well done. Suwama is probably my favourite guy to watch in Japan right now, and I really think he's a serious BITW contender this year. Can't believe I waited this long to watch this match. *****1/4*


----------



## seabs

*Yeah that's in my top 5 right now. Incredible match, even better being able to watch it live. Agreed on Suwama being a legit contender for WOTY too. Probably put Allmark #1 just based on 2012 work but he's right up there with him, Punk and Bryan for 2012.*


----------



## Chismo

Les Kellett Lariat said:


> My definition of "typical PWG match" would be a spotfest that appeals to fans under the age of 20.


This is wrong on so many levels.




Cactus said:


> 'PWG style' is basically 'ROH style' (and most US Indies for that matter) taken less seriously, hence it is much easier to sit through.


This is true, but the key difference is that PWG is like The Dude (Lebowski) of pro wrestling - they don't give a fuck, they just wanna wrestle (bowling) from time to time (like, 10-12 shows per year), they book big Indy names in strong supercards, they have few strong homegrown names, and their matches may seem like spotfests often, but they have a strong in-ring storytelling (you can't say that for Davey's reign, or for Steen/Davey from BITW), with a ton of hot crowd support. 

The key of PWG's cool aura is the fact they're a light-heart booking company, you gotta wait like 30-50 days to watch their show, so the anticipation is always high, and they don't need to handle a pressure of day-to-day operations like ROH.

Long story short, PWG is batshit cool (ROH is not anymore), and that's all that matters to me as a fan, but I will always be a ROH fan as well.


----------



## jawbreaker

the thing about "typical PWG match" is that, while they certainly have archetypes that they draw upon on a regular basis (big spotfest six or eight man tags, indy veteran vs. SoCal local, Young Bucks matches), there's a whole bunch of those archetypes and they all have different strengths (and weaknesses), so it's pointless to say "typical PWG match" because that could be a hard-hitting big man match with Brian Cage or Willie Mack or a nine-man tag where everyone does lots of flips and the crowd yells a lot or any number of things.

I don't think having archetypical matches is a bad thing, rather, it's probably a good thing for a wrestling company, as fans can come in expecting something they enjoy and have that carry on over and build some amount of hype. like, PWG is running a show with a six-man tag team ladder match. because I've seen PWG do tag team spotfests and crazy ladder matches before, I have an idea in my head of what that will be like, and if I like that idea, that's a good thing for the company. if someone says "typical 90s AJPW main event" or "typical CHIKARA trios match" or "typical Bryan Danielson match" those all mean good things in my brain.

so basically, just be more specific and don't substitute "match" for "spotfest" because that implies all PWG matches are spotfests.

Crabtree, your post was good and I'll probably respond to it when I have more time.


----------



## WEBSTER-WHYTE

*2012 Match Of The Year Contenders*

Briscoes vs. Guardians Of Truth (Best In The World)- ***** 
CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan (Over The Limit) - ****1/2
Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus (Extreme Rules) - ****1/2
Kazuchika Okada vs. Tetsuya Naito ****1/2
Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yoshihito Sasaki (Ikkitousen) - ****1/4
PAC vs. Akira Tozawa (Open The Golden Gate) - ****1/4
Low Ki vs Prince Devitt (Dontaku 2012) - ****1/4
CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho (Extreme Rules) - ****1/4
John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar (Extreme Rules) - ****1/4
Adam Cole vs. Kyle O'Reilly (Best In The World) - ****1/4
Undertaker vs. Triple H (WrestleMania 28) - ****1/4
Davey Richards vs. Michael Elgin (Showdown In The Sun) - ****1/4
CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan, special referee AJ Lee (Money In The Bank) ****1/4

*2012 Honourable Mentions*

Austin Aries vs. Alex Shelley (Turning Point) - ****
Sheamus vs. Alberto Del Rio (Money In The Bank) - ****
Kevin Steen vs. Davey Richards (Best In The World) - ****
Austin Aries vs. Samoa Joe (Slammiversary X) - ***3/4
Darkota Darsow vs. Rubix vs Lars Only vs Mason Andrews - ***1/2


----------



## Ali Dia

^^^ you thought the four way opener was the best match from Destination X?


----------



## WEBSTER-WHYTE

R.Scorpio said:


> ^^^ you thought the four way opener was the best match from Destination X?


I really did. Aries and Roode got overrated by a lot of people because of the result, in my opinion, and the Ultimate X match was _the worst_ Ultimate X match in history. Joe/Angle was pretty good, but not as good as some of their previous matches, and AJ/Daniels was just a glorified brawl - not my kind of match. I just found the opener easy to watch, and was glad to see how over Jigsaw was with the crowd.


----------



## justabit2g

Just watched Death to all but Metal and dayumm the tag team match was fkn awesome ****1/2. Miss the YB from TNA


----------



## Ten410

Alberto Del Rio Vs. Rey Mysterio Vs. Daniel Bryan Vs. Kane WWE Smackdown 7-27-12. Awesome Television match!!!


----------



## seancarleton77

Ten410 said:


> Alberto Del Rio Vs. Rey Mysterio Vs. Daniel Bryan Vs. Kane WWE Smackdown 7-27-12. Awesome Television match!!!


Agreed. Great 4 way. Also loved the Christian vs. Miz rematch.


----------



## Ten410

seancarleton77 said:


> Agreed. Great 4 way. Also loved the Christian vs. Miz rematch.


I might have to watch the Christian vs. Miz rematch.


----------



## smitlick

*DGUSA - Open The Golden Gate*
Akira Tozawa vs PAC
****


----------



## WEBSTER-WHYTE

smitlick said:


> *DGUSA - Open The Golden Gate*
> Akira Tozawa vs PAC
> ****


Interesting, every other rating I've seen of the Tozawa vs. PAC match has been at least ****1/4, someone even went so far as to give it ****3/4.


----------



## smitlick

WEBSTER-WHYTE said:


> Interesting, every other rating I've seen of the Tozawa vs. PAC match has been at least ****1/4, someone even went so far as to give it ****3/4.


I didn't find enjoyment in it like others did then obviously. Match is very good nonetheless and definitely recommend everyone seeking assuming it ever comes out on DVD.

*Pro Wrestling Superstars - WrestleReunion - 28/1/12*
Davey Richards vs Harry Smith
****

Great Sasuke/El Generico vs The Young Bucks
****

*PWG - Kurt RussellReunion 3*
Super Dragon, Kevin Steen & Akira Tozawa vs El Generico, Masato Yoshino & PAC
****


----------



## Matt_Yoda

*CIMA & AR Fox vs. El Generico & Samuray Del Sol
DGUSA Untouchable 2012- 7/28/12*

-Tag team wrestling at its absolute finest, lots of awesome exchanges mixed with some incredible spots that really captured the essence of the DragonGate Lucha Libre style. Not a dull moment and lots of back and forth and the crowd popped for everything. Man this match clicked so well and the ending stretch was fantastic. I'd boldly argue that this may potentially be DGUSA/EVOLVE's match of the year thus far. Fuck me this match was awesome.

*Johnny Gargano vs. Akira Tozawa (Open The Freedom Gate Championship)
DGUSA Untouchable 2012- 7/28/12*

Another great title defense for Gargano. It was going to be near impossible to top the match prior but they did a fantastic job of working the crowd back into it and lots of great exchanges and nearfalls towards the end. The mystique of whether or not Gargano would win based on his contract situation added a nice touch of suspense to the match. Excellent title match, hopefully it doesn't get overlooked in the long run due to the tag match prior.

*CIMA & AR Fox vs. Ricochet & Rich Swann (Open The United Gate Championship)
DGUSA Enter The Dragon 2012- 7/29/12*

-Another excellent showcase of tag team wrestling and the way that they worked made the titles seem important. Lots of fantastic exchanges and it started on all cylinders. Too many great spots to name but the Meteora/SSP spot was awesome. Some may not like the finish but I thought it was fine and took nothing away from this great match. Crowd was into this match so that was a plus.


----------



## Caponex75

Sheamus vs. Bryan is somewhere around four I think.


----------



## funnyfaces1

Sheamus/Bryan was really good.


----------



## seancarleton77

Bryan vs. Sheamus - Street Fight.


----------



## Bubz

Bryan/Sheamus was really good but nowhere near a MOTYC imo.


----------



## dk4life

seancarleton77 said:


> Bryan vs. Sheamus - Street Fight.


Loved the match, however, seemed really short, or was that just me?


----------



## seancarleton77

Not short at all, some 15 minutes.

Big Show vs. Cena was great!


----------



## ywall2breakerj

seancarleton77 said:


> Big Show vs. Cena was great!


Tell me Punk was on fire on commentary otherwise not even Misawa resurrecting and hyping this match would make me watch it.


----------



## dk4life

seancarleton77 said:


> Not short at all, some 15 minutes.
> 
> Big Show vs. Cena was great!


In that case that match was awesome as fuck, it felt like it went by in about 5 minutes, going to re watch it now!

Ok just re watched this match, 13 minutes, so close enough, awesome match, great spot off the stage, and Bryan's selling of the brogue kick Looked like Sheamus killed him, god he is the man, ***3/4 not MOTYC but still a pretty decent match and fun to watch


----------



## Last Chancery

Can we just have a TV MOTY and a live event MOTY? Because it's difficult to really, fairly and accurately judge a TV match compared to a PPV counterpart if you have commercials and all the added crap television tends to provide. So I'd say Bryan/Sheamus would be up there for TV Match of the Year, but not Live Event Match of the Year or overall MOTY. Does that make sense?


----------



## Manu_Styles

Last Chancery said:


> Can we just have a TV MOTY and a live event MOTY? Because it's difficult to really, fairly and accurately judge a TV match compared to a PPV counterpart if you have commercials and all the added crap television tends to provide. So I'd say Bryan/Sheamus would be up there for TV Match of the Year, but not Live Event Match of the Year or overall MOTY. Does that make sense?


It makes all the sense in the world i think


----------



## dk4life

Last Chancery said:


> Can we just have a TV MOTY and a live event MOTY? Because it's difficult to really, fairly and accurately judge a TV match compared to a PPV counterpart if you have commercials and all the added crap television tends to provide. So I'd say Bryan/Sheamus would be up there for TV Match of the Year, but not Live Event Match of the Year or overall MOTY. Does that make sense?


Pretty good idea, but I think its been talked about many times before, also agree about Bryan/Sheamus being up there


----------



## Wrestling is Life

Not sure how it will come across on DVD, but I was Chikara's event in Maine this past weekend and Sara Del Rey vs Eddie Kingston was an amazing match. So much emotion in it and a very hot crowd. Sara threw a lot of stiff kicks at Kingston and Kingston eventually returned the favor with hard chops. Sara looked so hurt at points in the match I was genuinely concerned.


----------



## EmbassyForever

racoonie said:


> Not sure how it will come across on DVD, but I was Chikara's event in Maine this past weekend and Sara Del Rey vs Eddie Kingston was an amazing match. So much emotion in it and a very hot crowd. Sara threw a lot of stiff kicks at Kingston and Kingston eventually returned the favor with hard chops. Sara looked so hurt at points in the match I was genuinely concerned.


Sounds awesome. Hope it's gonna be as good as Generico vs SDR.


----------



## Bubz

Anyone have a download link for Del Rey vs Generico? The one in the media section doesn't work .

Also I agree with seancarleton that Big Show vs Cena was another really good tv match. Crowd was really in to it which was surprising and Cena's performance was really good. Punk was good on commentary as always too.


----------



## Certified G

I'll have to watch that Big Show vs Cena match today.. I initially skipped through it because I really can't stand Big Show anymore but since it seems to be getting some praise around here I will deff watch it.


----------



## seancarleton77

Last Chancery said:


> Can we just have a TV MOTY and a live event MOTY? Because it's difficult to really, fairly and accurately judge a TV match compared to a PPV counterpart if you have commercials and all the added crap television tends to provide. So I'd say Bryan/Sheamus would be up there for TV Match of the Year, but not Live Event Match of the Year or overall MOTY. Does that make sense?


Mark Henry vs. CM Punk (Not the no DQ). has to top even Bryan/Sheamus as TV Match of the Year.


----------



## Manu_Styles

For a TV Match, Adam Cole vs Roderick Strong from ROH last TV show was a great match i think


----------



## seancarleton77

Manu_Styles said:


> For a TV Match, Adam Cole vs Roderick Strong from ROH last TV show was a great match i think


If Adam Cole (great wrestler) got a good match out of 2012 Roderick Strong (death by boredom), give Cole a gold medal, a jewel incrusted crown and a parade.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Last Chancery said:


> Can we just have a TV MOTY and a live event MOTY? Because it's difficult to really, fairly and accurately judge a TV match compared to a PPV counterpart if you have commercials and all the added crap television tends to provide. So I'd say Bryan/Sheamus would be up there for TV Match of the Year, but not Live Event Match of the Year or overall MOTY. Does that make sense?


Great idea.


----------



## Lane

I agree with both Danielson vs Sheamus and Cena vs Show. Two really good tv matches.


----------



## EmbassyForever

I really liked the F4W from SD and the tag matches from Raw (Vitamin C vs Miz & DZ)


----------



## smitlick

We don't need a seperate thread when the 2 threads are about the exact same fucking thing. MOTYs are MOTYs because there some of the best matches of the year. This thread isn't all that active as it is and theres definitely no need to split it up.


----------



## Bubz

Yeah this thread isn't anywhere near as active as it used to be iirc. Really don't need another thread. TV matches and PPV matches are just as eligible as each other for MOTYC's.

As far as TV matches go, there haven't been any that I would call legit MOTYC's (over ****), but the first Punk/Bryan and the first Punk/Henry are the best imo. Both ****.


----------



## Corey

Keep in mind I don't watch RAW and Smackdown every week, but the best TV match I've seen this year was Richards/Edwards IV. I'm even surprised to say that after their debacle from Final Battle, but this match actually had structure and psychology. Davey's armwork was great, Edwards sold it nicely, a great finishing stretch where the spots weren't overdone, and while the ending wasn't the greatest it made sense in the Davey/Steen feud and was fine for a tv match. I'd go ***3/4 for it. Right there with Davey/Strong as the best match on ROH Sinclair TV.

Haven't seen anything so far that'll top Bryan/Sheamus from Extreme Rules as my MOTY yet. Lot of stuff I need to see though.


----------



## Last Chancery

I wasn't particularly calling for separate threads, but maybe just a recognition that TV matches are structured somewhat differently and, in my mind, aren't completely comparable to a PPV match. TV matches have slightly different structures in place, having to work around commercial breaks and sometimes interjecting other distractions to further the stories, which you don't see as much at a live event or a house show.

I was probably just going to create my own little subsystem, where regular, non-TV matches were rated out of five stars, and the TV matches being rated out of four (with no quarter increments given; only halves, like movies). Using that scale, I'd give Sheamus/Bryan 3/4 and something like the first Punk/Bryan match 3.5. Well, OK, that does sound stupid, I will admit. It's just difficult for me to rate the matches the same since there are so many interruptions and distractions that subtract from otherwise enjoyable wrestling matches. Too often do I think, "Had that commercial not been there, this match would have been so much better..."

The current system works well enough, but I can't foresee a TV match ever being a certifiable MOTY, as TV matches (to me) need a lot more working in their favor to keep up with their PPV counterparts.

/shrug


----------



## dk4life

Bobby Roode & Zema Ion vs Austin Aires and Kenny King
Holy shit, what a way to start off Impact, awesome non stop action, Roode playing the heel perfect again, but damn I hate Ion, so made the ending a little better, no where near a full on MOTYC, but a great TV MOTYC - ***3/4


----------



## smitlick

*wXw 16 Carat Gold 2012 Day 1*
Zack Sabre Jr vs Jon Ryan
****

Big Van Walter & Robert Dreissker vs Daisuke Sekimoto & Freddy Stahl
****


----------



## EmbassyForever

dk4life said:


> Bobby Roode & Zema Ion vs Austin Aires and Kenny King
> Holy shit, what a way to start off Impact, awesome non stop action, Roode playing the heel perfect again, but damn I hate Ion, so made the ending a little better, no where near a full on MOTYC, but a great TV MOTYC - ***3/4


(Y)
King looked like a star here. Roode worked awesome as always. Aries' dive was a really dangerous spot because Aries almost fell before he jumped.. But yeah really good match.


----------



## dk4life

EmbassyForever said:


> (Y)
> King looked like a star here. Roode worked awesome as always. Aries' dive was a really dangerous spot because Aries almost fell before he jumped.. But yeah really good match.


He dodged Ion just before that dive I think, your right, crazy spot, just goes to show how good he is to recover that fast before the jump


----------



## smitlick

*wXw 16 Carat Gold 2012 Day 2*
Zack Sabre Jr vs Yoshihito Sasaki
****


----------



## Chismo

Matt_Yoda said:


> *CIMA & AR Fox vs. El Generico & Samuray Del Sol
> DGUSA Untouchable 2012- 7/28/12*
> 
> -Tag team wrestling at its absolute finest, lots of awesome exchanges mixed with some incredible spots that really captured the essence of the DragonGate Lucha Libre style. Not a dull moment and lots of back and forth and the crowd popped for everything. Man this match clicked so well and the ending stretch was fantastic. I'd boldly argue that this may potentially be DGUSA/EVOLVE's match of the year thus far. Fuck me this match was awesome.
> 
> *Johnny Gargano vs. Akira Tozawa (Open The Freedom Gate Championship)
> DGUSA Untouchable 2012- 7/28/12*
> 
> Another great title defense for Gargano. It was going to be near impossible to top the match prior but they did a fantastic job of working the crowd back into it and lots of great exchanges and nearfalls towards the end. The mystique of whether or not Gargano would win based on his contract situation added a nice touch of suspense to the match. Excellent title match, hopefully it doesn't get overlooked in the long run due to the tag match prior.
> 
> *CIMA & AR Fox vs. Ricochet & Rich Swann (Open The United Gate Championship)
> DGUSA Enter The Dragon 2012- 7/29/12*
> 
> 
> -Another excellent showcase of tag team wrestling and the way that they worked made the titles seem important. Lots of fantastic exchanges and it started on all cylinders. Too many great spots to name but the Meteora/SSP spot was awesome. Some may not like the finish but I thought it was fine and took nothing away from this great match. Crowd was into this match so that was a plus.



(Y)

Those 3 matches were TITS, especially the first one. Cray ass wrestling. Can't believe no one but you mentioned those...


----------



## smitlick

*wXw 16 Carat Gold 2012 Day 2*
Big Van Walter vs Daisuke Sekimoto
****1/2


----------



## Matt_Yoda

JoeRulz said:


> (Y)
> 
> Those 3 matches were TITS, especially the first one. Cray ass wrestling. Can't believe no one but you mentioned those...


If I could rep you I would and yeah agreed, some absolutely amazing main event matches from DGUSA weekend. DGUSA/EVOLVE continues to be one of the more underappreciated promotions in the US; Regardless, take nothing away from those guys damn good stuff from that weekend.


----------



## Bruce L

JoeRulz said:


> (Y)
> 
> Those 3 matches were TITS, especially the first one. Cray ass wrestling. Can't believe no one but you mentioned those...


It's probably because nobody but him has seen them. Sounds like they're all right up my alley, though; can't wait till February of 2013 when I can catch these shows on DVD.


----------



## Bubz

smitlick said:


> *wXw 16 Carat Gold 2012 Day 2*
> Big Van Walter vs Daisuke Sekimoto
> ****1/2


:mark: can't wait to see this.


----------



## smitlick

Bubz said:


> :mark: can't wait to see this.


The whole weekend has been fantastic so far... 

*wXw 16 Carat Gold 2012 Day 3*
Finlay vs Johnny Kidd
****

Axeman, Robert Dreissker, Karsten Beck & Yoshihito Sasaki vs Daisuke Sekimoto, Big Van Walter, 2Face & Kim Ray
****


----------



## EmbassyForever

Matt_Yoda said:


> If I could rep you I would and yeah agreed, some absolutely amazing main event matches from DGUSA weekend. DGUSA/EVOLVE continues to be one of the more underappreciated promotions in the US; Regardless, take nothing away from those guys damn good stuff from that weekend.


(Y)


----------



## smitlick

*wXw 16 Carat Gold 2012 Day 3*
The LDRS of the New School vs Emil Sitoci & Ricky Marvin
****


----------



## Lane

*wXw 18+ Underground Chapter 5: Sasaki vs Masada*
Sumurian Death Squadvs 2 Face & Sami Callihan
***
Fun match. If you're bored and want to watch a fun short match watch this.

Masada vs Yoshihito Sasaki
***3/4
DEATH. Great match.


----------



## Ten410

wXw 16 Carat Gold 2012 sounds solid, is there a way one can watch the matches online?


----------



## Caponex75

Man...Super Smash Bros vs. Young Bucks bore the absolute shit out of me.


----------



## EmbassyForever

*AAW Bound By Hate:*
Davey Richards vs. Sami Callihan - ****1/4


----------



## Caponex75

EmbassyForever said:


> *AAW Bound By Hate:*
> Davey Richards vs. Sami Callihan - ****1/4


I agree with this. I really really enjoyed about 99% of the match until the last minute or so but Richards selling was great and Callihan bumped like a mad man for him. There is rare times when I'm watching a match and I say "Wow this is actually really really good". Suggest everyone give it a watch http://filecloud.io/kbf24x05


----------



## EmbassyForever

Caponex75 said:


> I agree with this. I really really enjoyed about 99% of the match until the last minute or so but Richards selling was great and Callihan bumped like a mad man for him. There is rare times when I'm watching a match and I say "Wow this is actually really really good". Suggest everyone give it a watch http://filecloud.io/kbf24x05


Yep, O'Reilly vs Elgin was great too.


----------



## smitlick

*DGUSA - Open The Ultimate Gate 2012*

Akira Tozawa vs Masaaki Mochizuki
****

*Open The United Gate Titles*
Masato Yoshino & Ricochet vs Johnny Gargano & Chuck Taylor
****

*DGUSA - Mercury Rising 2012*

*Open The Freedom Gate Title*
Johnny Gargano vs Masato Yoshino
****

Akira Tozawa, BxB Hulk & Low Ki vs Masaaki Mochizuki, PAC & Ricochet
****1/4


----------



## Lane

*Alpha1 Intoxicated*
Steady Ballers vs Checkmate
***1/2
Very fun match. Lional Knight and Christopher Bishop are the best ive seen them at and Brent B and his partner Alex Vega make for a very good team

"Ronin" Josh Alexander vs Justin Sane
****-****1/2
Simply a beautifuly done match. Heavy hitting and big bumps but nothing over the top. The commentary does a good job of getting you up to speed and the crowd was way into it even going as far as to chant "You cant beat him" at Sane.

I highly recomend show. Was supost to be a B type show from them on paper but ended being a really fun even with some good matches. Only matches to skip would be Rhyno vs Joey Kings and Johnny Wave vs Ashley Sixx


----------



## Ten410

AJ Styles Vs. Kurt Angle (TNA Impact) 8-9-12. Short but, excellent TV match between these two.


----------



## Cactus

*Kyle O'Reilly vs Adam Cole - ROH Best in the World 2012*

First of, major props to Adam Cole. He took some Kawada kicks right to the mouth and it knocked out a couple of his teeth. He was an absolute bloody mess and it made him look like a total badass. This fueled his comeback nicely and I couldn't help but root for the guy. I can't really fault this match too much because it achieved on what it set out to do; make Cole look like a superstar.

However, there was too much stuff here that I wasn't keen on that stops it from being a MOTYC. It could be because I've been on a huge shoot style binge recently but some of the strike exchanges and matwork felt quite lifeless and bland. Cole's punches looked exceptionally bad. Excluding O'Reilly's selling of his leg, nothing sticks out in my mind as good or memorable in the first half of the match. The match really gets going when Cole loses his teeth and from that point, this is a treat to watch but I can't praise the match too highly if the first half is pretty lackluster.

★★★½


----------



## Zatiel

Fit Finlay Vs. Davey Richards - AAW Scars and Stripes

First AAW match I've straight-up loved. Didn't know what to expect since Richards has been unreliable this year and Finlay's indy stuff has been a mixed bag. They wrestled it very basic, which actually played to both their strengths. Their traditional spots, like Finlay tying on the legs, works so much better when the opponent is going through mat-wrestling minutia, too. Richards has done that spot where he fires up and kicks the guy a bunch in the corner many times, but I bought the emotion against Finlay. They really complimented each other and never went to overkill territory. Rather than using the Tombstone as a big spot, Richards feared it and prepared for it, and the Ankle Lock worked as something dangerous to come back with.


----------



## smitlick

*AAW - Point of No Return*
Silas Young vs Michael Elgin
****1/4


----------



## mk92071

I'd like to see what people have at the top of their MOTYC lists so how about some top 10's or 20's? 

Puro
1. Kazuchika Okada vs. Tetsuya Naito - 3/4/12 - ****1/2
2. Kazuchika Okada vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi - 2/12/12 - ****1/4
3. Akira Tozawa vs. Shingo - 2/20/12 - ****
4. CIMA vs. Pac - 3/4/12 - ****
5. Blood WARRIORS (Akira Tozawa, BxB Hulk, Cyber Kong, Fake Naoki Tanisaki, Kzy, Naruki Doi & Yasushi Kanda) vs. JUNCTION THREE (Dragon Kid, Jimmy Susumu, Masaaki Mochizuki, Masato Yoshino, Rich Swann, Shingo Takagi & YAMATO) - 2/9/12 - ****
6. Akira Tozawa and BxB Hulk vs. Jimmy Susumu and Jimmy Kagetora - 3/4/12 - ****
7. Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Minoru Suzuki - 1/4/12 - ****
8. Tetsuya Naito vs. Keiji Mutoh - 1/4/12 - ****
9. CIMA vs. Jimmy Susumu - 2/5/12 - ****
10. Masaaki Mochizuki, Don Fujii, and Gamma vs. Genki Horiguchi, Ryo Saito, and Yasushi Kanda - 3/3/12 - ****

American
1. Davey Richards vs. Michael Elgin - 3/31/12 - ****1/2
2. Tommy Wilson vs. Kid Caramba - 1/14/12 - ****1/4 (Local indy, phenomenal match. Watched 3-4 times and it is still great)
3. Chuck Taylor and Johnny Gargano vs. Masato Yoshino and Ricochet - 3/30/12 - ****1/4
4. Akira Tozawa, Kevin Steen, and Super Dragon vs. Pac, Masato Yoshino, and El Generico - 1/29/12 - ****1/4
5. Player Uno and Player Dos vs. Matt Jackson and Nick Jackson - 5/25/12 - ****1/4
6. Silas Young vs. Michael Elgin - 4/21/12 - ****1/4
7. Adam Cole vs. Kyle O'Reilley - 6/24/12 - ****1/4
8. Kevin Steen vs. Davey Richards - 5/12/12 - ****
9. Masaaki Mochizuki vs. Akira Tozawa - 3/30/12 - ****
10. Adam Cole and Kyle O'Reilley vs. Player Uno and Player Dos - 4/21/12 - ****
11. Daniel Bryan vs. CM Punk - 5/20/12 - ****
12. Kevin Steen vs. El Generico - 3/30/12 - ****
13. Austin Aries vs. Bobby Roode - 7/8/12 - ****
14. Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus - 4/29/12 - ****
15. Johnny Gargano and Chuck Taylor vs. Matt Jackson and Nick Jackson - 6/2/12 - ****
16. Jigsaw vs. Eddie Kingston - 5/20/12 - ****
17. Kurt Angle and AJ Styles vs. Kazarian and Christopher Daniels - 6/10/12 - ****
18. Undertaker vs. Triple H - 4/1/12 - ****
19. Eddie Kingston, Mike Quackenbush, Jigsaw, Soldier Ant, and Green Ant vs. 17, The Shard, asailANT, deviANT, and combatANT - 6/2/12 - ****
20. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - 4/29/12 - ****

Recommendations on what I need to watch? I know there is a lot of puro I need to see, but I don't know where to find it, I can only find DG and a few other matches here and there.


----------



## darkclaudio

TNA Hardcore Justice:
-Falls Count Anywhere Match: Mr Anderson vs Rob Van Dam vs Magnus **1/2
-TV Championship: Devon vs Kazarian **1/4
-Knockouts Championship: Miss Tessmacher vs Madison Rayne *1/4
-Tables Match: Bully Ray vs Jeff Hardy vs James Storm vs Robbie E ***
-X Division Championship: Zema Ion vs Kenny King ***
-Ladders Match: AJ Styles vs Kurt Angle vs Daniels vs Samoa Joe ***3/4
-TNA World Heavyweight Championship: Austin Aries vs Bobby Roode ****


----------



## TelkEvolon

mk92071 said:


> Recommendations on what I need to watch? I know there is a lot of puro I need to see, but I don't know where to find it, I can only find DG and a few other matches here and there.


I'd recommend trying out some BJW, it has got a lot of hype recently and has had some great matches in recent times.


Some Puroresu YouTube Channels:

KingsRoadJapan - AJPW

ProWrestlingAARK - NOAH

BiggestJapan - BJW

KOfficeDRing - Kensuke Office / Diamond Ring

MiscPuro - Stuff that doesn't have it's own channel (Osaka Pro, Zero-1, DDT, MUGA & others)

Emproer - Michinoku Pro

StrongStyleJapan - NJPW


----------



## Coffey

mk92071 said:


> I'd like to see what people have at the top of their MOTYC lists


My top 3 or 4 right now would be Okada/Naito, Okada/'Hashi, Brock/Cena & prolly Richards/Elgin though that was mainly just because I got caught up in the match & really bought that Elgin was gonna win. But December is still p. far away, so I'll worry about it all in December.


----------



## Punked Up

darkclaudio said:


> TNA Hardcore Justice:
> -Falls Count Anywhere Match: Mr Anderson vs Rob Van Dam vs Magnus **3/4
> -TV Championship: Devon vs Kazarian **
> -Knockouts Championship: Miss Tessmacher vs Madison Rayne *1/2
> -Tables Match: Bully Ray vs Jeff Hardy vs James Storm vs Robbie E **3/4
> -X Division Championship: Zema Ion vs Kenny King ***
> -Ladders Match: AJ Styles vs Kurt Angle vs Daniels vs Samoa Joe ***3/4


Edited w/ my ratings. We weren't more than 1/2 off of each other on anything lol.


----------



## Rickey

*TNA Hardcore Justice 2012*
Samoa Joe vs. Christopher Daniels vs. AJ Styles vs. Kurt Angle(Ladder Match)
Bobby Roode vs. Austin Aries(C)-World Title Match

Also very much enjoyed: Zema Ion vs. Kenny King for the X-Division Title.


----------



## Zatiel

Loved the ladder match. Daniels got murdered for the whole thing and played a great underdog heel. Joe was a beast. Styles was less obtrusive than I expected, but still did some great stuff. Them wedging Daniels in the ladder was priceless.


----------



## smitlick

*PWG - DDT4 2012*
Future Shock vs The Super Smash Brothers
****


----------



## EmbassyForever

darkclaudio said:


> TNA Hardcore Justice:
> -Falls Count Anywhere Match: Mr Anderson vs Rob Van Dam vs Magnus **1/2
> -TV Championship: Devon vs Kazarian **1/4
> -Knockouts Championship: Miss Tessmacher vs Madison Rayne *1/4
> -Tables Match: Bully Ray vs Jeff Hardy vs James Storm vs Robbie E ***
> -X Division Championship: Zema Ion vs Kenny King ***
> -Ladders Match: AJ Styles vs Kurt Angle vs Daniels vs Samoa Joe ***3/4
> -TNA World Heavyweight Championship: Austin Aries vs Bobby Roode ****


(Y)


----------



## Cactus

*Kazuchika Okada vs Hiroshi Tanahashi - NJPW 06/16/2012 *

Well, a good portion of this match has surfaced on the ol' Youtube. It features about 15 minutes of the 28 minute match. Not enough for a full review, but definitely worth checking out. 

I can never get my head around the fact that Okada and Tanahashi garner so much hate from the IWC. Okada is very skilled at making every move count and has tons of character, and Tanahashi may be formulaic (always going the legs) but you can't deny his awesome face-in-peril segments. 

Anyways, the match is fucking awesome from what I saw. The match cuts in as Tanahashi takes a sick bump to the outside. We get to see the last portion of Okada's control segment and near enough the entire finishing stretch. Okada is always going after Tana's neck and Tana is tries to defensively kick away Okada's knee. Add on top of that a super hot crowd and you got this match.

I really can't see myself going any lower than ★★★★¼ on this no matter how dull or shit the 13 minutes of missing footage is. I'm going to wait before giving an 'official' rating until I see the entire match, but this is most likely the best match from Japan I have seen all year.


----------



## Chismo

Cactus said:


> I can never get my head around the fact that Okada and Tanahashi garner so much hate from the IWC. Okada is very skilled at making every move count and has tons of character, and Tanahashi may be formulaic (always going the legs) but you can't deny his awesome face-in-peril segments.


Okada is pretty much loved from what I witness, way more than Tanahashi, but yeah, the eventual hate is ridiculous. I don't know how many times Tanahashi has proved already he's one the best in the world. The collection of great ****+ matches speaks for itself. And Okada is a breakout star of the year in the world, his short reign was awesome.


----------



## jawbreaker

Tanahashi is a little overexposed, which is generally why "the IWC" ever "hates" any wrestler. but there's very few guys who could do what Tanahashi does and not get overexposed so while I think the criticisms of him are generally fair, I certainly don't think he's bad.


----------



## Stardust Genius

Spoiler: wXw FAN



El Generico vs. Tommy End, The Sumerian Death Squad vs. RockSkillet and El Generico vs. Axel Tischer vs. Bad Bones vs. Karsten Beck were good matches about ***1/2 - ***3/4

Axel Tischer vs. Davey Richards and Bad Bones vs. Big Van Walter I liked even more. The first one a very good Indy Match and the second a strong battle in japanese style. ***3/4 - ****

RockSkillet vs. The Leaders Of The New School and Davey Richards vs. Zack Sabre Jr. were the highlights of the weekend for me. The Tag Match had a very slow start with a lot of grappling but the last five minutes were really insane. **** - ****1/4

Davey vs. Zack was as great as their match at 16 Carat 2011. ****1/4 - ****1/2


----------



## Chismo

JoeRulz said:


> Random re-watch:
> 
> *Bully Ray vs. Austin Aries (TNA, Sacrifice 2012)*
> 
> Story. Characters. Structure. Mind games. This match had all of those elements in high quantity, combine it with some great and stiff action, and you get a MOTYC, easily. This was perfect for 13 minutes only, and it's a shame their feud ended here, because with 4-5 more minutes, these two could reach five stars, IMO. Both guys played their characters to perfection. This is TNA's MOTY so far, it's slightly better than Angle/Hardy from Victory Road.
> *Rating: *****


Ok, so I watched this for the 3rd time last night, and I love it even more now, I'm bumping this to *****1/2*. What an epic match! Remember, pro wrestling is all about storytelling, and this match had a shitload of it. There was a fantastic character-work, Aries took helluva beating, and you'll have to struggle really fucking hard to find such an effective Big Guy vs. Small Guy awesomeness of storytelling like in this one. This clash is a must-see material for all of you who appreciate small things and details in matches. When I watch this, I really want to see them wrestling again at BFG for the title, if they decide to make Storm/Roode non-title, of course. Anyway, this match is epic, it's in Top 3 in the world in 2012, and of the best matches in TNA history.


----------



## geraldinhio

^ I'll have to watch this later , sounds right up my alley. Haven't seen much of Aries's TNA run but from what I seen I enjoyed it. Seen the very good title win against Roode and the fun X Title match with Shelly. Thinking of it I haven't seen much Bully Ray or any TNA at all. :/


Was just reading some DDT results and the ones from Beer Garden Day ~Haramshima Produce Day cought my eye. :lmao



> 4. HARASHIMA defeated Hikaru Sato with a Cross Armbreaker (29:58).
> - Iron Man Heavymetalweight Title: Yakitori defeated Hiroshi Fukuda (c) (9:21 pm).
> *Yakitori becomes the 947th champion.
> - Iron Man Heavymetalweight Title: Ryuichi Sekine defeated Yakitori (c) by eating it (9:21 pm).
> *Ryuichi Sekine becomes the 948th champion.
> - Iron Man Heavymetalweight Title: Beer defeated Ryuichi Sekine (c) (9:22 pm).
> *Beer becomes the 949th champion.
> - Iron Man Heavymetalweight Title: Gota Ihashi defeated Beer (c) by drinking it (9:23 pm).
> *Gota Ihashi becomes the 950th champion.
> - Iron Man Heavymetalweight Title: Hiroshi Fukuda defeated Gota Ihashi (c) with a Tambourine Attack (9:25 pm).
> *Hiroshi Fukuda becomes the 951st champion.



Here's the explanation: 



> At the end of the show, Ryuichi Sekine attacked the Iron Man Heavymetalweight Champion Hiroshi Fukuda while he was serving a try of yakitori chicken. When Fukuda was knocked out after a chop to the neck, a piece of the chicken fell on top of him, pinned him and became the new champion. Sekine ate the piece of chicken to win the belt by KO. He then celebrated with a can of beer but drank so much he collapsed. The can of beer landed on his chest and pinned Sekine to win the belt. Gota Ihashi then drank the can to win the title. Fukuda was back on his feet and attacked Ihashi. The champion kicked out of two pin attempts (which counts as successful title defences) but a tambourine to the back of the head finally put Ihashi out for the count. Fukuda made his escape as the champion once again.


:lmao I have too see this.


----------



## Nervosa

geraldinhio said:


> Here's the explanation:
> At the end of the show, Ryuichi Sekine attacked the Iron Man Heavymetalweight Champion Hiroshi Fukuda while he was serving a try of yakitori chicken. When Fukuda was knocked out after a chop to the neck, a piece of the chicken fell on top of him, pinned him and became the new champion. Sekine ate the piece of chicken to win the belt by KO. He then celebrated with a can of beer but drank so much he collapsed. The can of beer landed on his chest and pinned Sekine to win the belt. Gota Ihashi then drank the can to win the title. Fukuda was back on his feet and attacked Ihashi. The champion kicked out of two pin attempts (which counts as successful title defences) but a tambourine to the back of the head finally put Ihashi out for the count. Fukuda made his escape as the champion once again.
> :lmao I have too see this.


I love the Heavymetalweight stuff so much. No champion will ever be greater than "Ladder", though.



JoeRulz said:


> Okada is pretty much loved from what I witness, way more than Tanahashi, but yeah, the eventual hate is ridiculous. I don't know how many times Tanahashi has proved already he's one the best in the world. The collection of great ****+ matches speaks for itself. And Okada is a breakout star of the year in the world, his short reign was awesome.





jawbreaker said:


> Tanahashi is a little overexposed, which is generally why "the IWC" ever "hates" any wrestler. but there's very few guys who could do what Tanahashi does and not get overexposed so while I think the criticisms of him are generally fair, I certainly don't think he's bad.


I will admit I am one of the most adamant Tanahashi haters ever, and have been for roughly 4 years. I just think his mannerisms and moveset are the lamest things in the world. It just seems to me that the end of most of his matches are just him soaking up his opponents offense and then hitting a bazillion slingblades and slingblade variations followed by a bazillion high fry frows and high fry frow variations. That along with the boring legwork every match, and I feel like if you have seen one Tana match, you've seen them all. The whole 'so many **** matches' thing doesn't work for me because I rarely rate his stuff that high.

But If I'm really honest, the only reason I hate Tanahashi is because Nakamura is ten times better and gets about 1 tenth of the credit.


----------



## xzeppelinfootx

DDT very rarely disappoints. Some guy has a bunch of the fantasias from this year posted on dailymotion so I've been catchin up a bit. I also suggest the Generico/kodoka tlc match from Union pro in January for the DDT Extreme title.


----------



## Caponex75

Shiozaki vs. Morishima rocked. Despite it being sloppy at two random times, I loved it. Shiozaki busting out with some Marufuji level shit was nuts at one point.


----------



## Rah

xzeppelinfootx said:


> I also suggest the Generico/kodoka tlc match from Union pro in January for the DDT Extreme title.


Tbh that match really disappointed me. Relatively fun match but don't go in expecting anything blowaway. Generico's match against Kota Ibushi was better (DDT 04/05/2012). 

*Dean Allmark & James Mason vs Mark Haskins & Doug Williams - ASW:UK 26.02.2012*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2VeV...7&feature=plcp​What a crowd pleaser. I'll admit to being a newbie to three of these men and having watched this solely because of Williams being in it but I was pleasantly surprised by this. As Seabs said in his own post, finishing stretch was great. I loved how Mason used the ring-rope spot to push the heels into an all too cocky approach, forgetting he was on the outside and bided his time until the right opportunity arose - snatching victory from the jaws of defeat. Holy shit do I detest isometric camera angles, though.
*Rating:* 3.75


*Dean Allmark & James Mason vs Rampage Brown & Robbie Dynamite - ASW:UK 17.03.2012*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx_cz...6&feature=plcp​Great frigging match. Nothing needs to be said about it, other than that you really should watch it.
*Rating:* 4+

Going through some British matches tonight, on top of the list is _NGW:UK 'Rumble Roulette' - Dean Allmark v Martin Kirby v Jack Gallagher v Robbie X _ and Dean Allmark vs Nathan Cruz (Falls Count Anywhere). If these two matches were anything to go by, Allmark might just make me a happy man.

Anything more recent I should look out for on the British circuit, Seabs?


----------



## darkclaudio

NJPW 12-08-2012:
Final G1 Climax: Kazuchika Okada vs Karl Anderson ****1/4
Fantastic Match


----------



## Ten410

KENTA Vs. Naomichi Marufuji 7-22-12, Great match with these two.


----------



## seabs

Rah said:


> Anything more recent I should look out for on the British circuit, Seabs?


*Allmark, Allmark and more Allmark. I've got loads of british stuff stored up on my youtube history that I haven't dived into for months now but if you watch everything from Allmark youtube page you won't be disappointed. Watch his matches with Mason from last year too. I haven't watched any of them yet but the Premier League Wrestling matches on youtube are supposed to be really good. Sabre/Scurll from Progress this year has gotten a lot of high end love. Didn't think it was great personally though. Got some NGW shows coming so hopefully I'll watch them soon too. Any of the Finlay UK matches have been good-great. *


----------



## MF83

There's being an overly nitpicky smark and then there's having eyes and half a brain when it comes to watching KENTA sell none of the surprisingly decent knee centered offense (in KENTA's return match from a knee injury!) that Marufuji dished out on him in that match. Bleh!


----------



## Caponex75

Seriously? People are talking about KENTA/Marufuji but not Shiozaki vs. Morishima? Piss off.


----------



## Bubz

Is that NOAH show online yet?

Edie: Never mind, found it. Good stuff. *Capone* is there anything else worth watching from the show?

The NJPW show with Goto/Ishii is finally online too, heard great stuff about that match.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Bubz said:


> Is that NOAH show online yet?


Yes


----------



## seabs

Bubz said:


> Is that NOAH show online yet?
> 
> Edie: Never mind, found it. Good stuff. *Capone* is there anything else worth watching from the show?
> 
> The NJPW show with Goto/Ishii is finally online too, heard great stuff about that match.


*Fuck stupid NOAH and everyone watch that Ishii match.*


----------



## Caponex75

Bubz said:


> Is that NOAH show online yet?
> 
> Edie: Never mind, found it. Good stuff. *Capone* is there anything else worth watching from the show?
> 
> The NJPW show with Goto/Ishii is finally online too, heard great stuff about that match.


I only watched KENTA/Fuji and Shima vs. Shiozaki but I thought the latter was awesome outside of two sloppy moments. KENTA/Fuji has a fun finishing stretch. However, Shiozaki did his damn best to make his match with Shima super. Apparently I'm the only one that thinks that though.



Marufuji vs. KENTA ***+

Shiozaki vs. Morishima ****1/4+(Probably a little more had certain somebody sold better)


----------



## RyanDP

Still Richards vs Elgin for me.


----------



## Bubz

Seabs said:


> *Fuck stupid NOAH and everyone watch that Ishii match.*


Fuck stupid NOAH made me :lmao


----------



## USAUSA1

For me right now, I am still high on Cena vs. Brock and Eddie Edwards vs. Davey Richards ROH tv match from June as my top two matches of the year.


----------



## Bruce L

RyanDP said:


> Still Richards vs Elgin for me.


Same here, although Okada/Naitō and Cena/Lesnar are close.


----------



## seabs

*Suwama & Taiyo Kea vs Jun Akiyama & Go Shiozaki - AJPW 17.06.2012*
_Suwama continuing to GOAT his way through 2012. This is all about him and Shiozaki having a pure distance for each other which is fucking molten. Some of the best uncooperative mindless hatred brawling I've seen in a long time. Suwama's incredible throwing chairs and tables around and putting innocent bystanders in danger. Shiozaki stays with him in the brawling but he doesn't really offer much else and his strikes were way too weak for the setting. Akiyama and Kea do their thing which doesn't interest me but who cares when you have Suwama GOATing it up and trying to murder Shiozaki. Probably just short of being a MOTYC but think the AJ/CHAOS tag and set your expectations at that level._

*Jun Akiyama, Go Shiozaki & Atsushi Aoki vs Suwama, Kaz Hayashi & Shuji Kondo - NOAH 03.06.2012*
_There's been a common theme to every good NOAH match this year. Either bring in outsiders to make the match good or let Akiyama be a grumpy sod and fuck up juniors. This fits both criteria and obviously it's great. Slightly better than the All Japan version of Suwama and Shiozaki killing each other because Hayashi tries to take on Akiyama and gets duly killed for his efforts and the outsiders get to kill Aoki. The workover in the middle on Aoki should have been way longer but it's NOAH in 2012, the fuck do you expect. Kinda loses all it's structure once he tags out but with Suwama/Go, Suwama/Akiyama and Akiyama/Hayashi mixed in with Aoki's murder at the end it's still entertaining enough. The Suwama/Shiozaki brawling isn't quite as heated because it's not Korkauen and it's a shitty NOAH crowd but it still satisfied my needs for Suwama greatness. _

*AJ Styles vs Christopher Daniels vs Samoa Joe vs Kurt Angle - Ladder Match - TNA Hardcore Justice 2012*
_Wouldn't call it a MOTYC per se but it's a great match that's just shy of that mark that most people should really enjoy. Daniels is easily the star and takes a total ass kicking. Loved the babyfaces outnumbering the lone heel dynamic in this. Joe looked legit great for the first time since like 08 I think that I can remember. Looked a lot smoother and more like ROH Samoa Joe rather than a fat and slow Samoa Joe tribute act. Liked how they didn't take a ton of silly ladder bumps for a random ladder match like this but they still did enough dangerous looking ladder spots to get the gimmick over. Finish absolutely rules. From Daniels being Joe and Angle's dummy to getting trapped in ladder to that crazy spot from AJ to sneak the contract and best of all Joe's reaction when AJ sneaks in to steal the win and he's left standing on top of the ladder with his GOAT reaction._


----------



## Ali Dia

Seabs did you manage to see Aries/Roode. Heard that some thought it was better than their match last month.


----------



## MF83

Seabs said:


> *Fuck stupid NOAH and everyone watch that Ishii match.*


So much this


----------



## flag sabbath

R.Scorpio said:


> Seabs did you manage to see Aries/Roode. Heard that some thought it was better than their match last month.


I preferred the rematch, although that might be because I watched it spoiler-free unlike with Destination X. Aries & Roode complement each other brilliantly, with Roode somewhere between Randy Orton & an old-school JCP-style heel (Mike Bennett take note), and Aries the best he's been for years & a serious Wrestler of the Year candidate.


----------



## darkclaudio

Brock Lesnar vs Triple H - Summerslam ***1/4


----------



## Rickey

*WWE Summerslam 2012*-I enjoyed Ziggler vs. Jericho and Miz vs. Mysterio. Didn't really get into Brock/HHH, though some might enjoy it more than I did.


----------



## Caponex75

Triple H vs. Lesnar was depressing. Totally not the match that should of happened.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle

HHH V Lesnar *

Awful, heatless, boring. Just bad.


----------



## dk4life

jblvdx said:


> HHH V Lesnar *
> 
> Awful, heatless, boring. Just bad.


Umm you do know this is the MOTYC thread, cause if you do I don't see why your putting a 1 star match down, or are you trolling? Don't think it was that bad either, but each to their own I guess! The arm work was great, and so was Brock's selling, just felt flat through out the whole match.

Anyway back to a MOTYC

TNA Hardcore Justice 2012 - Samoa Joe vs. Kurt Angle vs. AJ Styles vs. Christopher Daniels - ****1/4

Watched this again last night, damn Daniels is great as a heel, everyone wanting to one up each other while beating him down at the start and the suplex off between Joe and Angle was great, as soon as they put him in the ladder, they go back at it, Joe getting close and then Styles coming out of nowhere was a great finish, its just below Aries/Roode and Aries/Bully as my TNA MOTY's


----------



## smitlick

Its because I'd assume hes responding to people mentioning it earlier

Big Van Walter vs Daisuke Sekimoto - wXw 16 Carat Gold 2012 Day 2 - ****1/2
Michael Elgin vs Davey Richards - ROH Showdown In The Sun Night 2 - ****1/2
Kevin Steen vs El Generico - ROH Showdown In The Sun Night 1 - ****1/4
Akira Tozawa, BxB Hulk & Low Ki vs Masaaki Mochizuki, PAC & Ricochet - DGUSA Mercury Rising 2012 - ****1/4
Michael Elgin vs Silas Young - AAW Point of No Return - ****1/4
Adam Cole vs Kyle O'Reilly - ROH Best In The World 2012 - ****
Ronin vs Super Smash Brothers - Evolve 10 - ****
Super Smash Brothers vs Young Bucks - PWG Death To All But Metal - ****
Future Shock vs The Super Smash Brothers - PWG DDT4 2012 - ****
El Generico vs Sami Callihan - Evolve 13 - ****
Johnny Gargano vs Masato Yoshino - DGUSA Mercury Rising 2012 - ****
Kevin Steen vs Davey Richards - ROH Border Wars - ****
Akira Tozawa vs PAC - DGUSA Open The Golden Gate - ****
The Briscoe Brothers vs Kyle O'Reilly & Davey Richards - ROH Rise and Prove - ****
Young Bucks vs Great Sasuke/El Generico - PWS WrestleReunion 28/1 - ****
Davey Richards vs Harry Smith - PWS WrestleReunion 28/1 - ****
Zack Sabre Jr vs Jon Ryan - wXw 16 Carat Gold 2012 Day 1 - ****
Super Dragon, Kevin Steen & Akira Tozawa vs El Generico, Masato Yoshino & PAC - PWG KurtRussellReunion 3 - ****
Big Van Walter/Robert Dreissker vs Daisuke Sekimoto/Freddy Stahl - wXw 16 Carat Gold 2012 Day 1 - ****
Masato Yoshino & Ricochet vs Johnny Gargano & Chuck Taylor - DGUSA Open The Ultimate Gate 2012 - ****
Zack Sabre Jr vs Yoshihito Sasaki - wXw 16 Carat Gold 2012 Day 2 - ****
Johnny Kidd vs Finlay - wXw 16 Carat Gold 2012 Day 3 - ****
Masaaki Mochizuki vs Akira Tozawa - DGUSA Open The Ultimate Gate 2012 - ****
Axeman/Dreissker/Sasaki/Beck vs Walter/Sekimoto/2Face/Ray - wXw 16 Carat Gold 2012 Day 3 - ****
The LDRS of the New School vs Emil Sitoci & Ricky Marvin - wXw 16 Carat Gold 2012 Day 3 - ****

My Current Listing. Not exactly in order but thats everything I've given **** or more to.


----------



## darkclaudio

KO-D Openweight Championship: Kota Ibushi vs Kenny Omega ***3/4 (18-08)


----------



## Bubz

I thought the triple threat from Summerslam was really good until the false finish and then the restart. Liked the end too, good character progression for Punk.


----------



## Rah

Seabs said:


> *Allmark, Allmark and more Allmark. I've got loads of british stuff stored up on my youtube history that I haven't dived into for months now but if you watch everything from Allmark youtube page you won't be disappointed. Watch his matches with Mason from last year too. I haven't watched any of them yet but the Premier League Wrestling matches on youtube are supposed to be really good. Sabre/Scurll from Progress this year has gotten a lot of high end love. Didn't think it was great personally though. Got some NGW shows coming so hopefully I'll watch them soon too. Any of the Finlay UK matches have been good-great. *


There is a whole heap of goodness on that Allmark page, I will not lie. I'll hopefully be able to set aside a day to go through everything British I can lay my hands on because I've been phenomenally impressed with what I've seen.

Well, excluding the South African imports that have made their way to your side of the world. Fucking Zizou Middoux. :no:



darkclaudio said:


> KO-D Openweight Championship: Kota Ibushi vs Kenny Omega ***3/4 (18-08)


:mark:
Just the names alone make me happy. This may just be my guilty pleasure of 2012.

*NJPW 12-08-2012*
*Final G1 Climax: Kazuchika Okada vs Karl Anderson*​I'm not quite sure why I liked this so much, considering Anderson seemed too lackadaisical in selling but whatever. This.Was.Fun.

Can't help but wonder if Anderson was booked into the final because it would make him the first foreigner to reach it since Rick Rude 20 years ago to the day but the final served its purpose. Say what you want about either man but this year's G1 Final had huge heat/crowd involvement and a great match with a finishing stretch (the last 30 seconds especially) that was truly exciting to watch.

NJPW are really pimping Okada hard this year and a G1 win (being the youngest person to do so) is something I wouldn't have expected, especially with them already giving him a title run. I suppose top brass have been as surprised by his improvement in quality as the rest of us were.

Cannot wait for his title match at Tokyo Dome.
*Rating:* 4+


----------



## seancarleton77

In what kind of a world is Ibushi vs. Omega praised and Lesnar vs. Triple H hated? I feel like Joe Bauers from Idiocracy every time I check this thread. Intelligence, to hell with it, gimme more spotz!


----------



## Rah

Considering I've never watched either match yet and the only man to have nominated Ibushi/Omega gave that match a 3.75 and the HHH/Lesnar match 3.25 (the highest I've seen from many boards) I don't see where your argument is coming from.

Kenny Omega has had a phenomenal string of performances this year, and none of them were just SPOTZ~!


----------



## Caponex75

seancarleton77 said:


> In what kind of a world is Ibushi vs. Omega praised and Lesnar vs. Triple H hated? I feel like Joe Bauers from Idiocracy every time I check this thread. Intelligence, to hell with it, gimme more spotz!


The match sucked though. :/


----------



## Rah

seancarleton77 said:


> In what kind of a world is Ibushi vs. Omega praised and Lesnar vs. Triple H hated? I feel like Joe Bauers from Idiocracy every time I check this thread. Intelligence, to hell with it, gimme more spotz!





Caponex75 said:


> Triple H vs. Lesnar was *depressing*. Totally not the match that should of happened.





jblvdx said:


> HHH V Lesnar *
> 
> *Awful, heatless, boring. Just bad.*


Well, Ibushi/Omega was none of those things.

Was it dreadfully shitty at times? Sure, but it had a lot of goodness, too. Kenny's control segments were good and I loved his arm work at the beginning of the match (too bad it had no ends to the means, though).

Ibushi's segments may have been a no-selling spotfest for a good percentage of the time but, honestly, I'd rather take some excitement over a dreary, ill-worked and lacklustre performance any day. I mean, how can I not mark out for a moonsault off the balcony, Ibushi faceplanting onto the top turnbuckle thanks to a nasty One-Winged Angel, a superb rana from the top rope to the hard floor outside the ring and Croyt's Wrath from on-top of the turnbuckle (to name but a few that come to mind)?

Like I said, I've yet to watch HHH/Lesnar so I'm merely going by what people are saying at this point but if I'm to trust them (and I don't see why not, seeing it seems to be general consensus across the internet) I see even less from where your comment is coming from.

Flippy shit, brah, iz lyk so c00l n stuffz.


----------



## Bubz

Well, I thought Lesnar vs HHH was actually really good. It dragged in parts, but I liked the story and the selling especially by Lesnar a lot. Lesnar brings this aura of reality to the ring with him, It was a very smartly wrestled match imo, even if it was a little slow in the middle. I loved the idea that HHH thought he had the win in the bag even before the match started, but then just got completely fucked up for the most part. I liked Lesnar's arm work, it made sense because even though he's a brawler he knew HHH's arm was injured so went straight for it. HHH going after the stomach was a good touch considering Lesnar's serious problems in the past, and he sold it like death. The no selling of the pedigree was silly but I loved the ending with Trips tapping. I thought Lesnar applied the Kimura too much throughout the match though and it kinda' damaged the moves credibility until the ending. Lesnar's bumps to the outside from the clotheslines were pretty crazy, this guy seems to have no care in the world for his own well being and it only adds to this atmosphere and aura he brings to the ring. He's so fucking good in his current role. Overall I really enjoyed it, although I think I can understand why people didn't like it that much and I'm probably going to be in the minority, but I'd have this around ******.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I didn't mind the Kimura being locked on, since they've made it clear it only really becomes 'dangerous' when he completely twists the arm like he did to HBK and for the finish. What seemed more annoying was Lesnar having the hold locked in at the end and waiting for what seemed like an eternity before twisting the arm and forcing the submission.

Match wasn't really good at all but like most HHH 'epics' there are usually elements of psychology and storytelling that people get gripped by and consequently see past issues that bother others from considering the match 'great'. Lesnar's selling was terrific and everything they did 'made sense', but the pace and atmosphere just felt painfully tame compared to the Cena match (because there was no way HHH would ever have let Lesnar unleash that sort of beating) which was bothersome when they went out of their way to promote the match in such a way that you expected this shockingly violent brawl.


----------



## FITZ

I thought Triple H vs. Lesnar was fantastic. Biggest complaint would be that it was kind of slow but it was a smartly wrestled match where everything they did made sense. I don't need to see someone actually get the shit kicked out of them for me to enjoy a match. I thought Lesnar hurting his stomach was brilliant as the underdog Triple H finally found a ***** in Lesnar's armor and I really thought he was going to win once Lesnar started selling like he was about to die.

Lesnar's arm work made perfect sense and some of the moves he did to Triple H looked brutal. Lesnar already broke Triple H's arm and he just did the same thing to Shawn right before the PPV. It would have been stupid if he went out there with some different type of offensive plan.


----------



## Last Chancery

I agree with a lot of what everybody's saying, re: Triple H vs. Brock, but the match didn't do much for me, personally. The selling and psychology was excellent, that much I'll agree with, but the atmosphere and the lack of crowd involvement killed the big fight feel. At Extreme Rules, the crowd was silent, stunned by what they had witnessed. Pretty hard to tame a Chicago crowd like that. But LA didn't go quiet because they were shocked, they did it because they were bored. Or so it seemed, and so it felt.

I'm glad Brock won, as I still believe he should have at ER, but the match itself was too plodding and focused for my liking. Brock focused way too much on the kimura and the arm, and it made the whole thing feel very one-note and bland. I mean, he did the same thing with Cena, except he mixed it up a lot more and they used the stipulation a lot better. I don't understand the need to make this match a no-DQ affair since the stipulation was never quite put into place, and when it was the referee practically ignored it. Brock low-blowing Trips almost forced the ref to disqualify him, yet the announcers stated that the match would be no-DQ and no count out? I don't.. get it.


----------



## Violent By Design

Last Chancery said:


> I agree with a lot of what everybody's saying, re: Triple H vs. Brock, but the match didn't do much for me, personally. The selling and psychology was excellent, that much I'll agree with, but the atmosphere and the lack of crowd involvement killed the big fight feel. At Extreme Rules, the crowd was silent, stunned by what they had witnessed. Pretty hard to tame a Chicago crowd like that. But LA didn't go quiet because they were shocked, they did it because they were bored. Or so it seemed, and so it felt.
> 
> I'm glad Brock won, as I still believe he should have at ER, but the match itself was too plodding and focused for my liking. Brock focused way too much on the kimura and the arm, and it made the whole thing feel very one-note and bland. I mean, he did the same thing with Cena, except he mixed it up a lot more and they used the stipulation a lot better. I don't understand the need to make this match a no-DQ affair since the stipulation was never quite put into place, and when it was the referee practically ignored it. Brock low-blowing Trips almost forced the ref to disqualify him, yet the announcers stated that the match would be no-DQ and no count out? I don't.. get it.


It was a normal match, which during the time I thought was stupid (ie 1 fall, DQs, count outs), but HHH asked before to "let them fight". He basically told the ref personally to not DQ or count someone out because he wanted to beat the chit out of Lesnar (only thing that bothers me is that they should have made the match a no DQ if that's what he wanted).

I originally hated that sub plot in the match, but considering it bit HHH really hard in the ass, I thought it gave a feel of great irony. It's so easy to hate HHH .


----------



## Bruce L

I think this is pretty much everything to which I've given ★★★★ or higher this year so far. I'll put the caveat here that my viewing, as always, is pretty much limited to what the kind souls on this message board and YouTube/Dailymotion have seen fit to upload as individual matches rather than full shows. That wasn't as much as usual anyway after the Megaupload shutdown, and looks to be even less than that with the stuff from Japan more or less cut off. Still, I think I've gotten a respectable amount in so far:


*WWE*

• John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar (_Extreme Rules_) — ★★★★½

• C.M. Punk vs. Daniel Bryan (_Over the Limit_) — ★★★★½

• Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan (_Extreme Rules_) — ★★★★¼

• Sheamus vs. Dolph Ziggler (_No Way Out_) — ★★★★¼

• Tyson Kidd vs. Michael McGillicutty (aired 6/20) — ★★★★


*New Japan*

• Kazuchika Okada vs. Tetsuya Naitō (3/4) — ★★★★¾

• Prince Devitt vs. Low Ki (5/3) — ★★★★½

• Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Kazuchika Okada (2/12) — ★★★★¼

• Hirooki Goto vs. Tomohiro Ishii (5/20) — ★★★★¼

• Prince Devitt vs. PAC (6/6) — ★★★★¼

• Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Karl Anderson (4/5) — ★★★★¼

• Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Togi Makabe (7/1) — ★★★★¼

• Bad Intentions vs. TenKoji (1/4) — ★★★★¼

• Kazuchika Okada vs. Hirooki Goto (5/3) — ★★★★¼

• Prince Devitt vs. KUSHIDA (5/27) — ★★★★¼

• Apollo 55 vs. Richards & Romero (2/12) — ★★★★¼

• Low Ki vs. Ryusuke Taguchi (6/10) — ★★★★

• Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Karl Anderson (5/3) — ★★★★


*RoH*

• Davey Richards vs. Michael Elgin (_Showdown in the Sun_, Night 2) — ★★★★¾

• Kevin Steen vs. El Generico (_Showdown in the Sun_, Night 1) — ★★★★¼

• Davey Richards vs. Jay Lethal (_The Homecoming_) — ★★★★

• The Briscoes vs. Richards & O'Reilly (_Rise & Prove_) — ★★★★


*TNA*

• Daniels & Kazarian vs. Styles & Angle (_Slammiversary_) — ★★★★½

• Austin Aries vs. Bully Ray (_Sacrifice_) — ★★★★¼

• Bobby Roode vs. A.J. Styles (aired 5/24) — ★★★★¼

• Austin Aries vs. Samoa Joe (_Slammiversary_) — ★★★★

• Austin Aries vs. Alex Shelley (_Against All Odds_) — ★★★★

• Joe & Magnus vs. Daniels & Kazarian (_Sacrifice_) — ★★★★


*NOAH/Diamond Ring*

• Suzuki & Aoki vs. Marufuji & Ishimori (6/13) — ★★★★½

• Katsuhiko Nakajima vs. Shingo Takagi (2/11) — ★★★★½

• Katsuhiko Nakajima vs. Atsushi Aoki (1/28) — ★★★★¼

• Go Shiozaki vs. Takeshi Morishima (1/22) — ★★★★¼

• Morishima & Nakajima vs. Ohtani & D. Hashimoto (4/29) — ★★★★¼

• Suzuki & Aoki vs. Kotoge & Harada (1/22) — ★★★★

• Fujita "Jr" Hayato vs. Kento Miyahara (2/11) — ★★★★


*All Japan*

• Nagata & Inoue vs. Kono & Minoru (2/3) — ★★★★½

• Jun Akiyama vs. Takao Ōmori (2/3) — ★★★★¼

• Kenny Omega vs. Hiroshi Yamato (1/3) — ★★★★¼

• Suwama vs. Daisuke Sekimoto (1/2) — ★★★★¼

• Kenny Omega vs. Shuji Kondo (3/20) — ★★★★¼

• Suwama vs. Taiyō Kea (5/7) — ★★★★¼

• Suwama vs. Yuji Nagata (5/5) — ★★★★


*Dragon Gate*

• Tozawa & BxB Hulk vs. Yokosuka & KAGETORA (3/4) — ★★★★½


*CHIKARA*

• El Generico vs. Sara Del Rey (_Hot Off the Griddle_) — ★★★★½

• Eddie Kingston vs. Jigsaw (_Aniversario: The Ogg and I_) — ★★★★½


*Big Japan*

• Daisuke Sekimoto vs. Yoshihito Sasaki (3/26) — ★★★★½

• Yoshihito Sasaki vs. Sami Callihan (3/26) — ★★★★¼

• Sekimoto & Walter vs. Y. Sasaki & Okabayashi (4/28) — ★★★★

• Sekimoto & Okabayashi vs. Akebono & Hama (1/3) — ★★★★


*Michinoku Pro*

• Ken-ou vs. Fujita "Jr" Hayato (6/3) — ★★★★½


*AAW*

• Davey Richards vs. Sami Callihan (6/22) — ★★★★½

• Davey Richards vs. Fit Finlay (7/21) — ★★★★


*DDT*

• Yuji Hino vs. Kota Ibushi (6/24) — ★★★★¼


*SMASH*

• Fit Finlay vs. Yoshihiro Tajiri (2/19) — ★★★★½


----------



## Martyn

Where's Aries/Roode in your list?

The match, where Tanahashi regains his title from Okada at Dominion was phenomenal. Almost at the Okada/Naito IWGP defense level.


----------



## Bruce L

Martyn said:


> Where's Aries/Roode in your list?


Didn't give either one four stars or more.



Martyn said:


> The match, where Tanahashi regains his title from Okada at Dominion was phenomenal. Almost at the Okada/Naito IWGP defense level.


Where were you able to see more than the last few minutes?


----------



## Saint Dick

*WWE Summerslam*
Brock Lesnar v Triple H - ****


----------



## Clique

Ownage™;11925414 said:


> *WWE Summerslam*
> Brock Lesnar v Triple H - ****


:agree:

Had a blast watching it. Love the psychology of Lesnar attacking the arm all match and the way they implemented the abdominal injury with Lesnar. The physicality with HHH's knees to the gut was great too. I thought the intensity was on point and well built from the deliberate pace they set and the aura provided by Lesnar. I have no complaints with the finish. I love it. ******



Also, *Finlay vs. Tajiri, SMASH 02/19*

I've admired Tajiri and Finlay's work for years now and here, in 2012, both men looked excellent here. I loved Tajiri's submissions targeting Finlay's legs early in the match which he later in the match attacked again with those vicious kicks. That to me really displayed a great game of chest Tajiri had in mind to pick apart the body part he knew could help him in the long stretch of the match when he ultimately would decide to bring out the big guns with those kicks. Finlay was so great dominating with his holds on the ground. I really dug how he managed to quickly shut down Tajiri's furious offense at almost every turn. The Tarantula and Tombstone teases were effectively built thrill moments for me. I really like how big of a deal those moves came across even when they weren't executed. The false finish and actual finish were immense. Where the hell did he put that shillelagh? Man was that finish good. I don't want to spoil it. After the match they had an emotional moment. I knew nothing about this promotion before I watched this match and I could sense how much it meant to Tajiri.

Link - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xowlq3_ta...lay-smash_sport


----------



## MF83

The goods of what's available IN FULL of the G1 so far, so not the slightly clipped final (amazing as it appears to be) 

From 8/4 and 8/10 (The J SPORTS A.K.A. The B Shows)

Best matches:
1. Kojima vs Suzuki ****+ - Pretty damn good match, this. Vintage MiSu as a shit disturber rather than a "heat heel" and somehow not a "Kojima match" even though it had all the ingredients.
2. Nagata vs Marufuji **** - Interpromotional Nagata and smarter, slower, better, heavyweight Marufuji as I figured he would be. The leg work went nowhere but that's my only complaint.
3. Tanahashi vs Yujiro ***3/4 - This did so much to establish Yujiro. Great work by Tanahashi. I'm really digging this new Yujiro, except that this match suffers from his 90% of normal match speed pacing problem.
4. Tanahashi vs Kojima ***3/4 - These guys doing what they do, only Tanahashi being better than usual and Kojima being worse. I really liked Kojima's transition into his first neckbreaker.
5. Nakamura vs Archer ***1/2 - This wound up being awesome after a shaky start. When crickets sound after Shinsuke's running corner knee to the gut, you can see him make the decision to give it his all, and all of a sudden (not unlike Ishii in the Goto match!) it gets reaaaally good.


----------



## ultimatekrang

under taker hhh- hell in a cell
bryan- punk
brock- cena


----------



## The Livid One

ultimatekrang said:


> under taker hhh- hell in a cell
> bryan- punk
> brock- cena


lol


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Clique said:


> Also, *Finlay vs. Tajiri, SMASH 02/19*
> 
> I've admired Tajiri and Finlay's work for years now and here, in 2012, both men looked excellent here. I loved Tajiri's submissions targeting Finlay's legs early in the match which he later in the match attacked again with those vicious kicks. That to me really displayed a great game of chest Tajiri had in mind to pick apart the body part he knew could help him in the long stretch of the match when he ultimately would decide to bring out the big guns with those kicks. Finlay was so great dominating with his holds on the ground. I really dug how he managed to quickly shut down Tajiri's furious offense at almost every turn. The Tarantula and Tombstone teases were effectively built thrill moments for me. I really like how big of a deal those moves came across even when they weren't executed. The false finish and actual finish were immense. Where the hell did he put that shillelagh? Man was that finish good. I don't want to spoil it. After the match they had an emotional moment. I knew nothing about this promotion before I watched this match and I could sense how much it meant to Tajiri.
> 
> Link - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xowlq3_ta...lay-smash_sport




Best puro match of the year so far for me, admittely my interest in New Japan, NOAH and BJW isn't strong so I haven't watched much but short of Okada/Naito or some random Ishikawa/Ikeda match turning up I can't see this being overtaken. You pretty much covered what was great, Finlay's selling of the kicks was some of the best I've seen someone sell Tajiri's strikes and seeing him quickly lock in a submission and then rub and feel his injured leg was just such a cool little touch that you expect in Finlay matches. Big spots in the match where well timed, the Tarantula counter was sublime and the finishing stretch dramatic and defiant but without pointless overkill or no-selling.

I wrote about it in here a while back:



> *Tajiri v Finlay, SMASH (2/19/12)*
> 
> Really enjoyed this, and of the limited puro I've seen this year its comfortably #1 for me so far. Just a very well paced and built match, featuring some really intense matwork at the beginning which builds and builds and features some great struggles from both men to get into a dominant position, and they break up the matwork into Tajiri's kicks wonderfully and Finlay really makes sure to sell them as well as anyone I've seen. He just has this great panicked reaction where you can see him jump backwards from each kick and try to block the next one, and the spot where Tajiri finally picks a spot after a good 6/7 minutes of choice grappling and lands a few kicks to the thigh of Finlay, only for Finlay to instinctively counter into a drop toe hold and then RUB the thigh where the kicks landed whilst attempting a submission was just another smart touch that you expect from Finlay matches. Really thought the whole cautious and tentative nature with which they entered the grappling really added to whenever one would attempt a strike or signature move, you could feel the tension bubbling with each exchange ending in a stalemate and again enough good words can't be said about Finlay's selling of the kicks: whether he falls on his arse, tumbles out of the ring or just hobbles hopelessly away, you always sense the kicks are something he can't cope with and Tajiri only being able to land a few of them before Finlay finds a way to keep control really makes you eager for the moment where Tajiri can get sustained control and really hurt Finlay. Finlay was super with his taunts to the crowd and just general demeanour, and I loved him having a counter for Tajiri's offence, particularly the tarantula counter and subsequent headbutts, just ruthless and vicious and awesome all at once. Celtic Cross being thrown out mid match was a bit of a suprise, I gather the Tombstone has been his finisher in Japan, but it was still a little weird to see a move you associated as a match ender in WWE be tossed out mid match with little build: it did show Finlay wanted to end it there and then, but the way there wasn't much of a reaction to the kickout from the crowd or Finlay just further added to the confusion in it being executed there and then. Finishing stretch was wonderful in its simplicity, Tajiri finally gets momentum and uses the kicks again to hurt Finlay and the moment he finally reels off a buzzsaw kick to the head feels like a spot the crowd has been waiting for the entire match. I also really loved the struggle and tease of Tajiri being able to block the Tombstone for a second time...only for Finlay to finally catch him and end the match there and then.
> 
> Both men had some brilliant facial expressions, especially Tajiri whilst being worked over, and the whole aura of tension from each lockup to Finlay throwing sweat at Tajiri only for Tajiri to casually flick it onto the ropes with this great cold expression was glorious. Both men built superbly to the explosion of signature offence, Finlay added some amazing simplistic touches that no-one else will recreate this year (drop toe hold struggle for example) and overall it was just a really simple and nice match that focused on build and pacing towards the finish, and its a damn shame that I'll be lucky to see maybe 5 matches from Japan this year that will work a match similar to this. One of my favourite matches from Finlay's Indy/Japan tour.


----------



## EmbassyForever

*CHIKARA's Give 'Em The Axe:*
The Young Bucks vs. The Throwbacks - ****1/4

*CHIKARA's The Great Escape:*
Eddie Kingston vs Sara Del Rey - ****1/4


----------



## Bubz

ultimatekrang said:


> under taker hhh- hell in a cell
> bryan- punk
> brock- cena





The Livid One said:


> lol


What's so funny about his post? Those matches are near the top of a lot of peoples lists. Taker/HHH is nowhere near mine personally, but Bryan/Punk and Cena/Brock are way up there.


----------



## flag sabbath

*BxB Hulk vs. Akira Tozawa vs. Naruki Doi vs. Masato Yoshino vs. Shingo vs. Yamato (Dragon Gate Infinity 261):* This is a battle royal of sorts to determine Cima's next challenger. Elimination is by pinfall, submission or (from 10 minutes in) over the top rope. The dynamic here is great - essentially you have three rival tag teams, but alliances fly out of the window from the get go. As you'd imagine, the action is thick & fast with some amazingly creative combinations, double-crosses, near-falls & elimination teases. Definitely the most relentlessly exciting match I've seen this year *****1/4+*


----------



## EmbassyForever

*Dragon Gate USA - Enter The Dragon 2012 iPPV:*
I Quit Match: Chuck Taylor vs Johny Gragano - ****


----------



## wildpegasus

Omega vs Ibushi was freaking incredible!!


----------



## dukenukem3do

BxB Hulk vs. Kota Ibush ****


----------



## Concrete

Trying to get caught up on a lot of wrestling before I go back to school so I thought I’d right up some reviews. Pretty sure very few people will care but hey just throwing it out there for the consumption of the world, or just this forum.

*Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan (Extreme Rules):****1/2*

_This made the 18 second match at WM all worth it for me. I don’t know how Daniel Bryan couldn’t be at the top of people’s WOTY lists. While I don’t think Sheamus is bad at all as he actually fills his role, the good-guy kicking ass champ, better than most wrestlers but Daniel Bryan is just on another level compared to almost any American Worker. Onto the match I guess. Not for a second was I even a little bored by this match. This had a lot to do with Daniel Bryan’s ability to make a rest hold interesting and when Sheamus was on offense he was able to rock his power game. That being said it was quite nice to see Sheamus try to Cloverleaf in the beginning of the match since Bryan kept saying in the build that he was going to make Sheamus tap, but when Sheamus tried again the reaffirm that Bryan is a technical wizard and counters it into a pin attempt. 

The armwork by Bryan was awesome. Weaving it throughout the match leading into the first two falls. The way Bryan just kicks the living piss out of Sheamus’ arm and not even caring when he got DQ’d was classic heel. Sheamus sold it like his arm was about to fall off. As soon as Bryan applied the Yes Lock I thought it was going to result in a tap out but in what could have been stupid I thought was well done because in the end Sheamus doesn’t tap. Even though it seems like Sheamus may have just had is arm killed he keeps going because 1)he’s pretty resilient cat 2)he’s the champ. I loved the way Sheamus didn’t seem like he was fighting against tapping out and getting to the ropes, it was more him fighting against the overwhelming pain and his ability to just remain conscious from it. The doctor’s coming in seemed a little cheesy to me but it put a little break between the falls and made sense of what followed. The ending for me, and if I recall when this match was actually wrestled applies to a lot of people, fell a little flat. After all the awesomeness that happened it just seemed to end without the big climax that I was kinda expecting. That does not take away from this being one of the best matches of the year by any means. I’d say this is in my Top 2 as of this writing…
_
*Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena (Extreme Rules):****1/4*

_BROCK SMASH!!! I kept reading everyone’s posts from earlier in the year about how “unique” this match was. I had no idea what that could possibly mean until I saw it. Brock beats up on Cena like no one has done. A sort of beat down I have never seen in the WWE that is for sure. While Sheamus vs. Bryan was great because of the work both guys put in the ring that created a fantastic story, this match was great by being a spectacle while at the same time getting the audience insanely invested. The ending in this match hurt it for me but just a tad as you can see by my rating I think it is awesome._

*Austin Aries vs. Bobby Roode (Destination X):****1/4*

_I’m glad I decided to watch all the pimped matches in a short span. Now I feel like “THAT WAS SWEET. SO WAS THAT. BUT WHERE THE FUCK WOULD I RATE THEM!” But that is a dilemma I can live with. Great match here with Roode just being that great old school kind of heel. While in his control segments he isn’t the most exciting IMO he helps progress the match. The way he would just taunt Aries when he was down pretty much saying, you are beneath me and you even thinking you have a chance pisses me off. I also loved how every time Aries went for one of his signature moves Roode had it scouted. There were very few big moves that Aries hit the first time around. And when he did hit his big moves they weren’t all in a row which I usually see. Aries would start hitting his big moves that Roode had countered earlier and then when he went for something he hadn’t tried yet it would be countered. Unlike the previous matches where I thought the endings didn’t quite end on that big note like I had hoped this did without a question._

So it seems I have 2 more matches to throw into the middle of the pack and one that may just be my new MOTY. Hopefully watching some CHIKARA tomorrow including El Generico vs. SDR and Jigsaw vs. Kingston. Then only Day 3 of 16 Carat until I am caught up with what I own.


----------



## EmbassyForever

*ROH Brew City Beatdown 2012:*
Silas Young vs Michael Elgin - ***3/4

Briscoes vs SCUM was really fun too, ***1/2 imo.


----------



## flag sabbath

Ibushi vs. Omega is utterly ridiculous. Some folks will love it, others will despise it with a passion, but it has to be seen to be believed.


----------



## Rah

Completely agree.

If you're going to go in there expecting great selling and "psychology" then you're going to waste your time but if you watch it for the sheer HOLY FUCK WITH ME A CARROT moments then you'll get them in spades.

My most fun match of the year by miles.


----------



## seabs

*I'm not even kidding when I say every match on the New Japan 6/16 show bar Anderson/Tonga vs MVP/Benjamin and the CHAOS 6 man (which I didn't watch but I presume not) could be considered **** and upwards. Liger/TM4 vs Taichi/TAKA and Tanahashi vs Okada are legit MOTYCs.*


----------



## dk4life

Dragon Gate USA Enter The Dragon 2012: CIMA & AR Fox vs. Ricochet & Rich Swann - Open The United Gate Match

Holy fucking shit, starts with a feeling out process, about 10 minutes (maybe less) in, this just explodes, tag team balls to the wall action, and by god! some of the tag team stuff they did, amazing, AR Fox I'm just not a big fan of, but he is getting there, Ricochet and Rich Swann are amazing together. Like someone said, the finish is alittle weak, but didn't take anything away from the match, really amazed this hasn't been talked about more, yes this was pretty spotty, but I am in love with this match. ****1/2


----------



## MF83

You should defInitely watch that 6 man. Starts with the best of Ishii vs Nagata and is very Ishii heavy overall. They work in CNJ nicely and Y-H/Romero produce a good laugh. Really fun match ***1/2
Jr tags ****
Gaijin Special ***1/4
IWGP Jr ***3/4
Tag Titles N/R but insanely fun
Heavy Tag - ****1/4 I absolutely loved this. They trimmed all potential fat and kept it at a high pace. Shinsuke is amazing, Tanaka kept the pacing in check and Naito dies very well. Goto...
Makabe/Suzuki - am I crazy or did they not show the majority of this on that digest? I'm still a huge fan of the route they took this in and think it deserves ****

Haven't watcher the full main yet but seriously, this show is fucking insane.


----------



## antoniomare007

*Kazuchika Okada vs Hiroshi Tanahashi - DOMINION 2012*

My new puro MOTY. Amazing atmosphere, you just now something important is on the line. There's tons to love about this match a not a whole lot to complain about. The amount of great teases to their different signature moves and great sequences is pretty remarkable, in the last 10 or so minutes I had not fucking clue what was going to happen next. The drama towards the end was awesome, people screaming and jumping up and down...just go watch this.


----------



## ywall2breakerj

*Suwama & Taiyo Kea vs Jun Akiyama & Go Shiozaki - AJPW 17.06.2012*
Seabs says a match is good. It holds up. Who would've thought? 

Falls shortly from being a MOTYC but that's due to Kea and Akiyama just going through the motions, especially Akiyama, damn those knee strikes looked weak...
I'm not a big Go fan (Shiozaki that is, Ryūma=gold) but his interactions with Suwama have been absolutely awesome. He seems to be the Cena of Japan as when he wants to, he can go, but is too inconsistent. Definitely deserves a watch.

****1/2-3/4*


----------



## Nervosa

Sorry guys, I know I am behind but I just now got around to seeing Naito vs. Okada. This thing is freaking amazing. I really thought all the hype on this thread was going to ruin it, but this lives up to every bit and more. Need to rewatch but this is 4 and a half at its very lowest for me right now.


----------



## MF83

I agree with a ****1/2 rating for Tanahashi/Okada II. Re: the Clipping. Am I remembering incorrectly or didn't Tanahashi reverse something directly into the clover hold? I swear I remember that from the digest but not the "full" match.

Makabe/Suzuki deserves more love


----------



## Rah

*Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada*
NJPW Dominion 16/06/2012​I'm not quite sure if I'd rank this above Naito/Okada but it's incredibly close none-the-less (and possibly needing a rewatch to make the call). I went in spoilered so I suppose I didn't have the unknowing suspense of action like antoniomare007 seemingly had (a few photo shots of the last few sequences gave away when the ending was coming for me, as well) but this still delivered in every way.

An absolute must-watch for anyone's taste and guaranteed a definite high-spot come end of year in many people's MOTY listings. 

*Rating:* four and a half Okada dropkicks out of five. Incredible stuff.


----------



## EmbassyForever

*NJPW 2012/6/16:*
IWGP Jr. Heavyweight Tag Team Title, Decision Match: Jushin Thunder Liger & Tiger Mask vs TAKA Michinoku & Taichi - ****1/2

This is what wrestling is all about. Fantastic story-telling.

I'm just finished watching this match so i may add more matches to this commont. The opener was really fun (***3/4) btw


----------



## Bubz

*NJPW Dominion 16/6*

*Jushin Thunder Liger & Tiger Mask vs Taichi & TAKA Michinoku*
Another incredibly fun match. Taichi going after Ligers mask again, then the Liger beat down and TAKA and Taichi being amazing heels, then KISHIN F'N LIGER turns up and it's fucking mark out central. Liger is God. Great match with great a great heel/face dynamic. Last few minutes are just awesome fun. ******
*
Hirooki Goto & Tetsuya Naito vs Masato Tanaka & Shinsuke Nakamura*
Man this was awesome as tits! I loved every second, and it's my tag match of the year. Great opening portion and then a great workover on Naito and a great comeback. Then we got Goto and Nakamura coming in off the hot tags and they have some awesome sequences and exchanges, but then the finishing stretch with Naito and Tanaka is probably the best I'll see in a tag match all year. Just so much fun and really well strung together, and that pin breakup by Nakamura was indeed fucking amazing. Loved the finish and the crowd was great too. *****1/4*

*Minoru Suzuki vs Togi Makabe*
This was a great stiff match up with two great performances. Loved MiSu throwing his dickish heel shtick out the window and just focusing on hurting Makabe and being a general overall badass. Makabe was great too, made Suzuki look that much better. Really liked the leg work, especially the heel hook that Suzuki locked in for ages. I also thought MiSu coming out on top of all the strike exchanges at first was great and then towards the end when Makabe starts thowing out the lariats, he has no chance. The finish was great too. Really liked this a lot. ******

*IWGP Title - Kazuchika Okada vs Hiroshi Tanahashi*
This just fucking ruled on every level. I don't want to go in to too much detail, especially about the last 5-10 minutes, because it's just so great that you should go into this not knowing that much. Basically Tanahashi goes after the leg, Okada sells amazingly. Then Okada goes after the neck, Tanahashi sells amazingly. Then they have an absolutely balls awesome finishing stretch, and the neck and leg work both play in to the finishing stretch in some way or another. Okada once again focuses everything at the neck, and Tana uses the previous leg work as a go back to point to stop Okada gaining momentum. The crowd is amazing, Tanahashi's expressions are great, but Okada is the fucking truth. This guy might just be my new favourite wrestler right now, he just 'gets' it and is brilliant at being a pro wrestler in ever way. This match owned, and it's my number 2 of the year, just behind Okada/Naito. *****1/2*

Incredible show. Everything else bar the MVP/Shelton tag was ***1/2+ too. The Jr's 6 man (***1/2), the Heavyweight tag title match (***1/2), the Jr's title match (***3/4). I didn't watch the second six man, but I've read that it's in the ***1/2 range too. Just awesome.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Bubz said:


> * I loved every second, and it's my tag match of the year. QUOTE]What is your first one?*


----------



## Rah

*Davey Richards vs. Sami Callihan (AAW Bound By Hate)​*Dailymotion *or* filecloud.io (upload credit goes to Caponex75)​
This match was going beautifully well until the finishing stretch when Davey seemingly forgot about the selling of his leg. Not for nothing, though, as for the rest of the match Davey was right on the money with his selling, pacing and general approach in his control spots. His knee selling was well-executed (especially after offence) and Sami's targeting was spot on not to mention his general crazy bumping for Davey.

The finishing sequence (barring the no-selling) was also a strongly fun affair with Sami silently conceding defeat via submission being a great finishing touch to their encounter. This was 19 minutes of pure joy and the midcard match that stole the show.

*Rating:* 4.25-

Other matches:
*Kyle O'Reilly Vs Michael Elgin (from the same show) *
*Rating:* 4-

*Jushin Liger & Tiger Mask Vs Taichi & TAKA Michinoku (NJPW Dominion)*
*Rating:* 4

*Low Ki Vs Ryusuke Taguchi (NJPW Dominion)*
*Rating:* 3.75

*Hirooki Goto & Tetsuya Naito vs Masato Tanaka & Shinsuke Nakamura (NJPW Dominion)*
*Rating:* 4.25


----------



## Bruce L

*IWGP Heavyweight Title — Kazuchika Okada (C) vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi (6/16)*

Just adding my voice to the chorus of people saying this ruled. When a match can genuinely get me excited even if I already know the result, safe to say it's doing something right. Both guys showed great strategy, alleviating all the issues I have with "consistent" selling by only deviating from their respective strategies when the other guy was on offense. Just a great, great match, if not better than Okada/Naitō, then at least as good. ★★★★¾ from me.


----------



## Nervosa

I swear I think I've died and gone to wrestling heaven with this show. I've got 3 four star matches and I'm not even at the main event yet.

About to go watch it now. I'm nervous because I have never liked a single Tanahashi match I've ever seen. Here goes nothing!

*EDIT*
Tanahashi vs. Okada
Yeap, that was incredible. I cannot believe I got through an entire Tanahashi main event without hating my life once. Absolutely excellent. Some very minor quibbles with how Okada's leg was sold and Tanahashi's usual repetitiveness make it so this isn't quite as good as Okada/Naito, but its either second, or at worst third in MOTY for me.
****1/2

Rest of the show:
Opening 6-man: didn't dig this, mostly because I didn't think its really showcased the 3 top talents that well. Just ended way too fast. ***1/4

Heavyweight 6 man: A little better, and funny, but just ok. ***

Jr Tag: Incredible drama. Would have loved 5 more minutes, more from Taka, and better finish, but this was so much fun. ****

MVP/Shelton vs. Tonga/Anderson I actually really liked this. I think Shelton shows down and puts together a much more logical match than he does in the states. His finisher is awful, though. ***1/2

Lowki vs. Taguchi: Taguchi is so bad...why do they ever bother putting him over. Such a bland moveset. Low-ki does make the best of it though, I wish he had wrestled a better opponent with this same structure, because it probably would have made 5 (FIVE?!?) 4 star matches in one show, but as it is, Low-Ki did the best he could with a limited opponent. ***3/4

Heavy Tag Title Match: This was fine, I guess. Crowd was into it, good personality, nothing speical though. Maybe ***1/4?

Special Tag: I just want Shinsuke to have the World Title all the time....is that too much to ask? This match was incredible, and I agree that its the best tag match of the year. All the Goto/Shinsuke interaction was just totally excellent. ****1/2 Yeah, seriously, I loved this that much. 

Makabe vs. MiSu: If they would just structure every Makabe match like this one, I would have no problem with it at all. I like no-nonsense MiSu a lot. One really cool story in the match was how the lariats became the turning point. I just this this was perfectly structured for what it was. ****1/4

Just an incredible show all around. And a whole lot of legwork in, like, every match.


----------



## blink_41sum_182

Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada - **** 1/4


----------



## Rah

*Dinastía, Mascarita Dorada, Octagoncito vs Mini Charly Manson, Mini Histeria, Mini Psicosis
AAA on Televisa (Regional): 2012-08-12 *





Right, so I haven't followed Lucha religiously since the epic Casas/Panther match (for shame, I know) but something about this caught my eye. It could possibly be due to myself being an over-zealous Mascarita fan but I'll rather side with an explanation that keeps my fanboyism secret and say it's because of Cubsfan that I watched this.

Now I can't go out on record, like he did, and say "not only is this one of the best minis matches but also one of the best trios matches all year" due to my inexperience with Lucha as of late but I cannot overstate how great the work here is. 

On the one hand you have an excellent rudo dynamic peppering the majority of the match with just the right amount of técnico brilliance to help push the feud over. As always, Mascarita bumped like a Mexican Dolph Ziggler in this match due to the size concession he gives the other minis. The way he's manhandled and just ragdolls around from simple moves is just lolworthy. Dinastía, however, once again stole the spotlight despite still being so young. His plethora of new yet crazy moves never seems to end.

If you're going to watch any lucha (especially any minis action) this year, I cannot see why this shouldn't be one of your first go-to's. Almost as balls-crazy and immersive as anything else this year. It's just how a minis match should be.

*Rating:* 4.25-


----------



## Bruce L

dukenukem3do said:


> BxB Hulk vs. Kota Ibush ****


Agreed. Maybe a _little_ higher.


----------



## xzeppelinfootx

Wow that minis match. Everyone go watch that. Thanks for bringing it to my attention, that was honestly a great match. I've never seen Dinastia before so that was quite a treat. I don't think I've ever seen a pin broken up with the running shooting star, but even if I have it was never that smooth.


----------



## smitlick

*DGUSA - Untouchable 2012*
AR Fox & CIMA vs El Generico & Samuray Del Sol
****

*DGUSA - Enter The Dragon 2012*
Johnny Gargano vs Chuck Taylor
****


----------



## Bubz

Jesus were people (including myself) wrong to write Okada off at the start of the year :|.


----------



## Nervosa

Bubz said:


> Jesus were people (including myself) wrong to write Okada off at the start of the year :|.


Totally agree. Its a shame they didn't think its wise to leave the belt on him for a while. It looks like boring title matches until Wrestle Kingdom.


----------



## Violent By Design

*Tanashi vs Okada* - Fantastic match, I'd say it is match of the year (with Lesnar vs Cena contending with it, but I'll give this match the nod for now). Okada plays a great character, kind of reminds me of Gilgamesh from Fate Zero (random anime reference!), Tanashi is pretty hype too. Very dynamic match, and the way they teased their spots were great, I thought. At a certain point toward the end, it really feels like every move was going to matter, and I was actually in suspense in what was going to happen which doesn't really happen in Pro Wrestling very often.


*Ibushi vs Omega* - I thought it would have been cool if it had more kung fu sequences like at the start of this match. After a while it goes from a nice spot fest to just plain bad in my opinion. I mean really, the guy does a back flip off a balcony and it doesn't mean anything. The selling was terrible, and when I say selling I don't mean the lack of it (ie no selling), but I legitimately think the acting was just bland and uncharismatic. Might have been a bit more entertaining if it was shorter at the very least.


*Psicosis, Manson, Histeria vs Dinastia, Dorada, Octagon* - Very nice display of acrobats. A good match worth a watch. I think if the guys didn't constantly do kip ups and curt wheels it would have made their spots better. What I mean by that is literally even when the guys are waiting to fight, they're doing a bunch of kip ups. Save that stuff for when you're actually in combat.


----------



## antoniomare007

Bubz said:


> Jesus were people (including myself) wrong to write Okada off at the start of the year :|.


Anyone who saw him in the NOAH feud in 09' knew he had "it". His two Dome matches were underwhelming as hell but the chances of him still being awesome were higher than him completely forgetting how to work a crowd and be great at this wrestling stuff.


----------



## MF83

And he doesn't even turn 25 until November!


----------



## Rah

Violent By Design said:


> *Psicosis, Manson, Histeria vs Dinastia, Dorada, Octagon* - Very nice display of acrobats. A good match worth a watch. I think if the guys didn't constantly do kip ups and curt wheels it would have made their spots better. What I mean by that is literally even when the guys are waiting to fight, they're doing a bunch of kip ups. Save that stuff for when you're actually in combat.


Fuckin' minis...



Violent By Design said:


> *Ibushi vs Omega* - I thought it would have been cool if it had more kung fu sequences like at the start of this match. After a while it goes from a nice spot fest to just plain bad in my opinion. I mean really, the guy does a back flip off a balcony and it doesn't mean anything. The selling was terrible, and when I say selling I don't mean the lack of it (ie no selling), but I legitimately think the acting was just bland and uncharismatic. Might have been a bit more entertaining if it was shorter at the very least.


Completely agreed. I found the match exciting to watch but it doesn't deserve to be anywhere near a MOTYC list.

If pandering to the crowd's pleasures and SPOTZ~! gets you that accolade then we may as well throw in every Dragon Gate, Michinoku, CMLL and Jack Evans match this year.

Worst Kenny Omega match I've seen so far (ratings wise).

But on the topic of Michinoku...
*Kenou Vs Hayato "Jr" Fujita ( M-Pro 03.06.2012)*
*Youtube*​
Sweet jeez was this a war with chest kicks delivered with the power of a thousand Bryan Danielsons. Fujita had split skin, ffs.

A great heel/face dynamic styled match with the struggle for control taking precedence throughout the match's body. Some truly phenomenal transitions that cannot help but make you wince especially when babyface Hayato slowly gains leverage midmatch only for Kenou to level him with a vicious punch to the gut. Not every transition worked, though, and I'm not sure if the brilliance of most over-shadowed these moments (and they'd be negligible in another context) or they were truly flat - most notably the finish and a flying stomp looking weak comparatively to the rest of the beating these men delivered.

Otherwise, the rest of the match portrayed their hatred to a tee and their viciousness felt organic with the match seemingly feeling like a shoot-fight at times thanks to Hayato's brilliant selling. Add in a hot crowd, a fitting title change and (if you can ignore the let-down finishing knee strike) a finishing stretch that will have you wincing in pain even more and you're left with quite easily one of my favourite matches this year. I think I've given a lot of this specific rating out lately but if any deserves it this match does. Hayato "Jr" Fujita is slowly creeping up my list of favourite young prospects. Stop playing with yourself and go watch this now.
*Rating:* 4.25+


----------



## smitlick

*CZW - Tournament of Death 11*
Drake Younger vs Danny Havoc
****

*Chikara - Aniversario: The Ogg & I*
Eddie Kingston vs Jigsaw
****

*Chikara - The Great Escape*
Eddie Kingston vs Sara Del Rey
****1/4


----------



## Concrete

*Danny Havoc vs. Drake Younger [Caribbean Spider-Pits Deathmatch](TOD11):*****

_This is a low ranking MOTYC for me but still a hell of a deathmatch. I don’t watch a ton of deathmatch wrestling partly because I find them boring after a while since it is usually just a collection of “extreme spots”, and I tend to enjoy spot fests. This was just too much fun though. There were plenty of crazy spots in this match. More than most wrestling cards will have in total. Drake Younger is having a little bit of a career resurgence as of late with his work in CZW and now he seems like he could put on some good matches in PWG. As far as psychology, well that isn’t really what you are going to find here. But when a match involves a fireball, a piledriver onto a lightube ON the apron, and flaming fluorescent light tubes then it somehow becomes less important and you just get engrossed by the balls craziness of these cats. _


----------



## Chismo

Strangely, I find the Younger/Mondo 1st Round match better (****) than that one.


----------



## EmbassyForever

*DGUSA Untouchable 2012:*
Open the Freedom Gate Championship Match - Johnny Gargano(c) vs. Akira Tozawa: ****
The post-match promo was awesome, maybe the best promo of the year so far


----------



## Concrete

JoeRulz said:


> Strangely, I find the Younger/Mondo 1st Round match better (****) than that one.


The one thing that made me upset with that match is the spot where Mondo wants to Frankensteiner Younger onto the ladder but one of them decides to twist and it completely misses, then Mondo decides to perch Younger back on top and just tosses him onto the ladder. I still thought it was wicked fun but it takes a decent amount for me to get into deathmatches so that just kinda took me out of it.


----------



## Concrete

*PWG WORLD TAG TEAM TITLES*
Super Smash Bros. vs. The Young Bucks(No DQ): ****1/2
_SWEET MOTHER OF GOD!!! Little would you know if you put the best heel tag team in PWG history against one of the hottest tag teams going right now you will get a MOTYC? At no point was this match anything close to dull. The action was amazing just like you would expect. I wasn’t sure if this match was going to be able to live up to the huge amount of hype and when I thought it was going to end it surely came close to the praise it had received but what I didn’t realize was what I thought was the end wasn’t the end and that’s when I started completely losing my shit, opposed to the 85% shit losing I was doing, while watching this match. When Matt Jackson pulls Rick Knox out of the ring and superkicks his face off that’s when this match goes from being great to being a PWG Classic IMO, no small feat mind you. Throughout the match The Young Bucks are complete assholes and it is superb. The way they took Player Dos out of the match was great. Did I mention the table spot? No? Then how about you go watch this match and tell me how super friggin’ sweet it is. This match is somewhere in my Top 3 right now with Naito/Okada and Sheamus/Bryan. This review is out of order and a little chaotic. I was trying to capture the chaoticness of this match in this review. Not buying it? Damn_


Ricochet vs. El Generico: ****1/4
_So this happened. El Generico for my money is the best wrestler not in one of the big promotions. Ricochet has turned into not just a complete wrestler but an AMAZING wrestler. This match is a grudge match and it shows. The things these guys can do are unreal. Ricochet was a complete dick this match and El Generico showing a little bit more of a mean streak was fantastic. The story of El Generico getting pissed at Ricochet for being a little faster and ahead of him as well as El Generico getting his neck’s durability tested was grand. Watch this match. Super fun and super awesome._


----------



## Rah

Bubz said:


> I just watched Ibushi vs Hino from DDT 24/6 and thought it was really good but not a MOTYC personally. I guess I don't really watch DDT much and didn't really care that much for the guys in it and so wasn't fully invested, but the story they told was really great. Had a few botches but they didn't take anything away from the story or the overall action. First time seeing Hino and he seemed really good. Ibushi is just a great underdog. Probably around the **** mark. Probably didn't help that I'm really fucking tired right now.


I fully agree with this. I honestly do not see the hype for Ibushi/Omega nor do I see the hype for Hino/Ibushi.

I honestly loved the story they were portraying (a great reworking of the David Vs Goliath tale) but the manner in which Hino was trying to portray himself as wrestling's own Mumakil felt odd. Where Seabs sees great selling in portraying him as unstoppable yet still "humanlike" I see questionable selling flaws.

The crowd popped when Ibushi did the unthinkable and powerbombed Hino. It was quickly killed when Hino rolled out barely after a one-count. Sure, Hino is meant to have a large "HP" but at least have him be stunned or, at the very least, taken aback that Ibushi did that to him. Sell some annoyance, please? Thanks.

Botchy, questionable and odd in it's flow. Not for me.


----------



## Violent By Design

Hey guys, I downloaded Young Bucks vs Super Smash Bros, only problem is I'm not sure how to unzip/extract it.

Usually it isn't a problem, but the Winrar actually expired (lol), how exactly do you get past it or alternatively what's another program I can use to unzip it?


----------



## Rah

7zip

Wow, I never actually thought Winrar could expire. My copy has been saying "evaluation copy - expired" ever since I can remember yet has never failed to work.

Where did you download the match from, out of interest?


----------



## EmbassyForever

*PWG Threemendous III:*
Kevin Steen vs Willie Mack - ****
Drake Younger vs B-Boy - ****
Ladder Match: Future Shock vs Super Smash Bros vs Young Bucks - *****


----------



## Violent By Design

Rah said:


> 7zip
> 
> Wow, I never actually thought Winrar could expire. My copy has been saying "evaluation copy - expired" ever since I can remember yet has never failed to work.
> 
> Where did you download the match from, out of interest?


8th page in the indie wrestling media section.


----------



## Caponex75

Watching B-Boy and Younger and this match is the definition of a spot fest. I'm talking about the real thing.....not that shit you put on wrestlers you don't like. A match with nearly no story.......or any psychology. Big moves with no consequence or meaning. Overkill and kick outs for almost NO REASON. Just pure Indy garbage. Boo this match. Boo it to hell.

Edit: On that note, The Ladder match may be one of the craziest things I've seen since Cage Of Death in 2006. I don't know how to explain it or go into detail but it was utter insanity. I don't think there was one moment for me to catch my breath or think at all in that match. Big MOTY as it was tons of fucking fun.****3/4


----------



## justabit2g

Best match of the year so far: Young Bucks vs SSB vs Future Shock 
***** fucking stars, holy shit that was awesome. 
boy do i miss the yb from tna


----------



## Chismo

Huh, I have the Bucks/SSB from DTABM at five fucking stars, now I can't even imagine the craziness of the 3-Way Ladder Match.


----------



## Caponex75

I thought the match from DTABM sucked and I thought this ruled. That should tell you enough.


----------



## Bubz

Looking forward to the ladder match. Wasn't as high on the DTABM Bucks/SSB match as other people, still thought it was around **** though.


----------



## Ten410

Hiroshi Tanahashi Vs. Kazuchika Okada 6/16/12, boy what a match. Everything was in place, fast paced action and a very hot crowd. I was skeptical about New Japan putting the title on Okada, but after his title run I see big thing from him in the future. If anyone has time check this out.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

LUCHA MO-FOs

*Blue Panther vs ***** Casas, (CMLL 1/27/12)*

This is a lightning match so we only get treated to 10 minutes, but christ what a brilliant 10 minutes it was and the resulting hair vs hair match was set up beautifully. Both men just excellently mix hate filled brawling with some incredibly slick mat counters and submissions to punish the other man, there's a sense of hatred that dominates both men's offence but at the same time the mutual respect and desire to outwrestle and humiliate the other man is clearly demonstrated and therefore we're treated to as much counter wrestling as we are violent brawling. Panther countering into an ankle lock and BITING Casas' foot whilst he has the hold locked on may be the most impressive visual of the year, just so totally awesome at conveying the hatred that drives Panther in hurting Casas. Little touches like Panther grabbing Casas by the hair into a submission and the empathic struggle Panther and Casas exert in an STF hold are remarkable, and there were a bunch of really well timed and impactful transitions which felt organic and allowed both men to get credible spells on offence without making one man look more dominant than the other. Casas was especially great, his brilliant counter into the STF out of the surfboard was made all the more sensational by his little grin and taunt as if to mock every Panther fan and assert his dominance, and he threw some very meaty strikes whenever Panther was grounded. His brief armwork was also appropriately nasty whilst also exhibiting his technical skill, and the finish with both men having dualing leg locks whilst trying to slap (and in Panther's case punch) the other silly was an appropriately choice finish. Panther demanding 5 more minutes only to have Casas kick him in the balls and swiftly exit with the most delightful grin just completed this awesome little match. Has there been a better match minute by minute this year?



*La Sombra (c) vs ***** Casas, (CMLL 2/13/12)*

Excellent title match built around the agile and athletically superior Sombra against the veteran and instinctive Casas. I wasn't a fan of how they effortlessly moved from feeling out matwork in the first caida to rope running to end the fall, its something that often takes great timing to come off in an organic sense and I didn't think they quite captured that here. That being said the actual finish to the first fall was meticulous in shaping out the remaining 2 falls, Casas avoids a springboard lionsault only for Sombra to pull an Ibushi and hit a reactionary moonsault after landing on his feet from the springboard attempt. From here on Casas is wonderful in employing a variety of veteran tactics to break up Sombra's momentum and prolong the match, he switches up his striking game whenever possible to weaken the bigger Sombra and I loved his set up for the Low Ki double stomp off the ropes, Sombra sold the wear and tear of the match and took a while getting to the top rope and Casas despite sitting up just waited for Sombra to reach the top rope before attacking. Those small veteran spots he added throughout were just wonderful (pulling on Sombra's mask in a rope running attempt etc) but it was the second fall finish where this was most apparent, Casas stalls and breaks up Sombra's momentum and then suckers him into the ropes before hitting a roll through cross body and then a quick dropkick to the knee-cradle pin combo to tie the falls up. Felt like a true veteran spot in baiting the younger and more rash Sombra and the way he executed the flash combo really made it seem like a true 'flash finish'. 3rd fall like true Lucha is where both men break out their best offence, and again Casas trying to momentarily stop Sombra only to have his efforts scuppered as often as he succeeds made for an entralling dynamic. Casas had some of his stellar selling particularly after the ringpost bump, and the 3rd fall finishing playing off of the 1st fall finish with Casas playing possum and countering Sombra's lionsault attempt and immediately hooking a creative pin was a wonderful payoff to the rookie/veteran story which dominated each fall. Special mention to both of Casas' pins in both falls, and the extra attention to detail in noticeably holding down every part of Sombra's body to block any evident kickout.


*Fuego & Valiente vs Arkangel de la Muerte & Virus, (CMLL 2/21/12)*

Beautiful match here, though I thought Virus and Valiente were pretty much on a whole other level to Fuego and Arkangel, and continue to perhaps be the greatest Lucha pairing at the moment not named ***** Navarro & Solar. Fuego vs Arkangel to open was inoffensive albeit less than stellar, with them focusing on very slow and uninspired matwork, however the moment Valiente and Virus enter after the initial stalemate this match just never fails to drop below awesome. Valiente vs Virus is just a masterclass in sublime chain wrestling with the counters feeling crisp and won via both men's skill rather than overly co-operative hold swapping, and it honestly feels like two masterclass wrestlers squaring off in a battle of supremacy the moment they lock up. Some incredibly beautiful holds and counters in their first exchange and they really achieved this balance between the heroic Valiente up against the dastardly yet deadly Virus. Virus just cutting off Fuego's attempted tope with a running elbow was a wonderful dickhead rudo spot and was one of many awe-inspiring moments from him in the match. First fall finish is superb with Valiente unleashing a wonderfully slick and sudden counter into an armbar allowing Fuego to finish off Arkangel, and I liked how each pairing in the opening fall was essentially concluded with Valiente managing to get the first unbreakable counter in before Virus, and Fuego using his agility to score the fall after this attempt at hold trading proved ineffective earlier. 2nd fall sees Arkangel work far more fluid with the supreme Valiente, and features two AWESOME monkey flip bumps from Arkangel before a terrific comedy rudo spot with Valiente faking a dive and forcing Arkangel to retreat and sit on his ass in the crowd. Loved how the rudos regained momentum due to Fuego ultimately proving to be a lesser opponent technique wise against Virus than Valiente, and therefore allowing the rudos to double team and essentially eliminate Fuego and leave the supreme technico in a numbers disadvantage. Felt like a satisfactory escalation of the prior fall, with Virus and Arkangel focusing more on dickish low blows and strike based offence to wear down the technicos and then score a duelling submission to tie the match up. There were some brilliant rudo spots in the 2nd and 3rd falls, with Virus hilariously begging off to Valiente setting up an Arkangel sucker punch, as well as both rudos focusing their attack primarily on Valiente and Fuego's testicular region. 3rd fall is shorter than you'd usually expect from a 2/3 falls tag but they pack in some brilliantly fluid and well timed counter wrestling and Valiente somehow manages to pull off a heroic technico comeback without making it look ridiculously cheesy and contrived, which given the elaborate set up for the comeback spot was truly remarkable. Fuego hits what looked to be a damn good tope to eliminate Arkangel and himself from the match up, and we end with the two maestros in what feels like an ultimate technico/rudo showdown at a lightning pace with both men just looking to catch that rapid counter to down the opponent. Finish is timed impeccably and feels like a satisfying ending to an excellent bout.


*El Hijo Del Santo & Villano IV vs El Hijo Del Solitario & Angel Blanco Jr, (TXT 2/25/12)*

HOLY SHIT! To anyone ignorant enough to label Lucha nothing more than perfunctory highspots with no substance behind them I suggest you watch this match. A classic Mid South/Memphis bloodbath with some of the most realistic and violent brawling you are ever likely to see in 2012 and the perfect way to work a hate filled brawl with tons of huge bumps, an electric crowd desperate for rudo blood and some awe inspiring performances from all 4 men. It was amazing to see how the opening minute which resembled a technico squash somehow turned into what felt like an eternal beating by the rudos, with some stiff as hell punches and equally majestic selling from Villano IV in particular. So many awesome moments of pure violence to really list, but the near 15 minute beating the rudos dish out is unlike anything I've seen this year sans for Lesnar/Cena. Its borderline frightening how much abuse the technicos take, but their selling and expressive mannerisms are incredible at constantly keeping the crowd rabid rather than in stunned silence, and Villano IV above anyone just constantly had my attention with the way he was bumping for every bit of offence Solitario in particular was inflicting upon him. Loved how the rudos didn't let up after the 1st fall and continued the relentless beating and finally drew blood from both Santo and Villano, with ripped masks and biting the cut of both men both Solitario and Angel Blanco Jr really went above and beyond at working and deepening the cuts of both technicos and deserve great credit for being sensational rudos and also in constantly working the crowd and building to the technico comeback. Santo's famous silver mask is completely stained red by the end of this, and everyone bleeds a disgusting amount of blood and makes for some incredible visuals. The technico comeback feels really organic on the back of the first mis-communication between the rudos, and the intensity and pace behind their comeback suitably keeps the crowd engaged in every bit of action, Villano hits a sensational fatman tope and Santo lands his famous crossbody to the floor in between all of this and the crowd is just losing their shit for everything. Villano crushing Solitario with a revenge chairshot was brilliant, but the spot of the match has to be the boxing exchange between Villano and Solitario with both men just unleashing ridiculously awesome punches at a breathtaking pace and doing a tremendous job at making Villano look heroic as he staggers with blood dripping down his body and Solitario looking like the toughest SOB to ever walk the earth. Finish is absolutely timed superbly as the ulimate heartbreaking defeat for the technicos, Santo looks set to hit his renowned somersault-tope combo but Blanco ducks the initial somersault leaving Villano to eat it square on the face, and then Santo's follow up tope to the floor gets interrupted by the mother of all chair shots from Solitario. Post match pull apart brawl just added to the insanity, Villano looks possessed and wants to maim Solitario at every opportunity and Santo and Blanco continue to duck it out with their blood stained masks making for one of the most impressive visuals of 2012. Lucha MOTY so far and running neck and neck with Lesnar/Cena for my worldwide MOTY. Fucking stupendous technico performance complimented by a dominant and ruthless rudo performance, transcendent Lucha brawling at its finest and a molten crowd. Perfection.


*Blue Panther vs ***** Casas Hair vs Hair, (CMLL 3/2/12)*

I've found out that CMLL and specifically Arena Mexico don't do blood these days, so sadly this isn't strictly the bloodbath brawl you expect from a Hair vs Hair match. However these two had mixed violent brawling with competitive matwork throughout their feud and therefore I had no mither with them working their own style of hair match, built on bodypart work, selling, superb pacing and the occasional stiff strike or two. Opening fall is tremendous, Casas sets the tempo with a nasty as fuck headbutt as Panther tries to drag him into the ring and the next few minutes are loaded with some strong offence from Casas in particular before a superb flash Fujiwara armbar from Panther for the instant submission. The second fall may even be better as Panther now sets about destroying Casas' shoulder and Casas sells it superbly before unleashing a superb counter into a stretch muffler and immediately capitalises on the weakened leg with a snap dropkick followed by a flash pin to tie the match up. The 3rd fall however is where this really steps into 'excellent' and MOTY territory, Casas destroys Panther's leg with an array of offence and there's this awesome Bryan/Sheamus esque spot where Panther is slowly struggling to put any weight on his leg, and Casas has this shit eating grin at how well his attack has payed off and takes the time to stretch his own legs as an insult. Panther's selling is superb and despite gradually shaking off the work, he sells it in a few sequences to really emphasise the damage still exists, e.g his hobble in the reverse gory bomb hold. A few people may dislike how Casas switches his focus away from the leg, but tbh this feud revolved around the skill and ability of both men, and I saw it more as Casas seeing the leg as something he could exploit whenever he was in danger, but just sought to hook any limb he could get his hands on rather than making his attack predictable and risking Panther spotting this and positioning a flash counter like the one which won him the opening fall. Both men sell the wear and tear of their onslaught like only the best can, and Panther's superb tope and Casas' resulting selling as his previously injured arm bounces off the guardrail was just a supreme little attention to detail that left me thoroughly impressed. Both men save the big bumps and transitions for the final fall and the pace throughout is flat out superb, there were multiple occasions where one of them would find an opening and look to be on the verge of victory and as a result every little moment of struggle and fight felt that much more emotive and dramatic due to how skilled and vicious both men were throughout. Finish isn't what I'd hope for in a hair match, but it was probably executed as well as it could have been for what they were going for.


----------



## Violent By Design

giant paragraphs are my one weakness


btw, is this the match you're talking about? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4AGdO4cGcA


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Apologies for the long paragraphs, I like to ramble.

Yup, that would be the match. The best of the bunch I just watched IMO and only behind Lesnar/Cena for worldwide MOTY. Granted I haven't seen Finlay/Callihan EVOLVE and WXW yet but I can't see either of those matches being better than the TXT tag and Lesnar/Cena.

Watched both Okada matches that people loved, vs Naito and vs Tanahashi. Preferred the bulk of the Naito match but thought the finishing stretch in the Tanahashi bout was better, but despite both matches being infinitely better than some of the dross I've seen from Puro recently I wouldn't think of either as a surefire MOTYC. Put it down to my tastes preferring Lesnar/Cena and bloody Lucha brawls instead of Puro title matches in 2012 rather than the Okada matches not being 'good'. Can totally see why anyone who regularly enjoys Puro would love them as much as I've seen, Okada definitely made an impression on me with how everything in his offence seems to ultimately matter and feel part of a strategy, but its going to take something almighty good for a Puro match which isn't FUTEN or Takayama abusing someone to get me fully invested these days.


----------



## Chismo

Two ref bumps almost killed Lesnar/Cena for me. It's still a damn good match, but I wouldn't consider it MOTYC just because something like that was unseen in WWE. Lesnar/Cena is all about people getting caught in the moment, if you ask me. ****3/4* for that match.

I belive that me, Sean Radican and Cactus are the only guys who love Finlay/Callihan III to death, in fact, we all rated it the same (*****1/2*). I simply love the style they wretle, where every fucking move mattered, with some bajesus stiff strikes and painful submissions.

And Okada/Naito is a beautiful match. ******* all the way, it's a clear Puro MOTY so far, and No. 2 in the world, right behind Bucks/SSB from Death To All But Metal.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Oh I don't doubt I'll really adore Callihan/Finlay, but I do have to question if it could grip me as much as the top matches I've seen this year. You seen Tajiri/Finlay from SMASH Joe? Superbly worked title match built around Finlay selling Tajiri's kicks as well as anyone I've seen and trying to create distance between them and ground him. Tajiri's really good as the hometown babyface trying to win the title in the company's final show, and his comeback is superb with the continuous teases that his strikes have Finlay's number, and the question that slowly dominates the match is whether Tajiri's kicks can win him the match before Finlay finds a counter.

Lesnar/Cena for me is all about Cena's babyface performance and Lesnar's incredible beating. I don't doubt the initial live viewing can explain why it stuck with me, given it was unlike anything WWE has ever put out in a grudge feud, and honestly came off like a BattlARTS/Hashimoto vs Tenryu hybrid of real violence. I loved all the teases to Cena's comeback, thought he bumped and sold his ass off and teased his big spots and timed them to perfection (Deadweight slam out of the Kimura is one of the best spots I've seen this year) and thought Lesnar complimented him superbly as the fearsome monster who took some scary bumps and also had some killer facial expressions, particularly after the Backlund deadweight spot and the Steel Chain shot which had Lesnar conveying this brilliant shocked emotion at being momentarily stunned and having little to answer on how Cena hadn't been killed yet.

Okada/Naito was a good match, though it just didn't scream MOTYC to me. As I said that's more to do with the Puro Main Event title formula just not really doing much for me these days, though this was a far better title match formula to me than anything I've seen for a good few years in Puro. I'm just far more conditioned to loving FUTEN and the occasional Takayama slugfest these days, than an admittedly good title match. Okada definitely comes across as someone I'll keep my eye on, but as I said, he's more one of the better guys of a style that right now doesn't grab me, than someone I'm compelled to check out the minute I hear another match of his has made air (e.g Ishikawa).


----------



## bigbuxxx

Watched the ladder match from pwg. really fun match and pretty good. it was insanity but with insanity comes bad camera work which really showed when steen and whoever commentated with him talked about action that wasn't happening on camera. loved the ending. haven't seen much of any of the 6 guys involved but the bucks and player uno are def. people i want to watch again. don't care to rate it but def. recommended.


----------



## Yeah1993

The ref bump in Cena/Lesnar is probably the most realistic ref bump I've ever seen.


----------



## Bubz

Really am still undecided on how to rate Lesnar/Cena until I watch it again. Fucking loved it though. I know people will say something like 'if you loved it then rate it *****', but that match is different imo, and I haven't added it on to my MOTYC list despite loving it.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Uploaded SSB vs Young Bucks vs Future Shock - ladder match.

part 1
part 2

enjoy


----------



## WOOLCOCK

*Vordell Walker vs 2 Cold Scorpio, (PWE 1/28/12)*

Very good match, though this would probably be a top 15-20 match rather than an outright MOTYC. Matwork to begin wasn't Navarro/Solar esque but served its purpose and accentuated nicely to Walker losing his cool and attacking Scorpio when he finally came on top in an exchange. Scorpio countering a headstand by Walker into some Haas of Pain esque hold was incredibly nifty though. Scorpio sells well and eats a decent beating thereafter, but its really everything after Scorpio's wonderful punch combo comeback where the match really shifts into another gear. Everything Scorpio does has this Tenryu esque execution which looks deadly, especially this pele/enziguri kick which Walker sells like it crippled his upper body. Thought both men's strikes were appropriately stiff as the match progressed and things broke down a little, Walker's dazed/feeble crawl selling of Scorpio's strikes was especially unique and impressive. Couple of strong nearfalls which I bought as the finish, though if I could complain it would be that Scorpio's offence looked really excellent in comparison to Walker's and I think Walker could have done with some more nearfalls insteaf of what came off as a mini upset by the end.


*Dean Allmark & Finlay vs Robbie Dynamite & Rampage Brown, (ASW 6/7/12)*

Maybe one of the most purely fun matches of the year, but also a damn good match to boot and another feather in Finlay's cap of strong matches since his Indy return. Pure STF match with a really fun opening with Allmark and Finlay looking unbeatable and some fun comedy spots from the heels, particularly with the crowd getting on their backs and taunting their every bump. Transition spot was really super with Allmark getting caught in the moment and taking a nasty gut-buster out of a vertical suplex. Next few minutes are pure FIP with Allmark getting double teamed behind the ref's back and Finlay being taunted with the heels dragging Allmark close to the corner and baiting the hot tag. Finlay's a super apron worker throughout and emulates Steamboat by almost falling into the ring he's leaning out for the tag that much. Awesome sleeper spot where Allmark threatens to make the tag only to be caught in a sleeper takedown, looked really crisp and was timed to perfection. Hot tag has Finlay clearing house and looking damn near invincible, finish is a fine 'send the crowd home happy' moment with Finlay tagging Allmark in to hit a moonsault for the win.


*Derrick King vs Frankie Tucker Last Man Standing, (5/25/12)*

Really great LMS match, without the pitfalls of recent WWE style LMS's with all the stoppages in between counts and over reliance on weapons instead of out and out brawling. Pretty much every moment of offence here is a ridiculously stiff punch, with both men clearly having learnt from the Dundee's and Lawler's of the Memphis era. King using a fan's boot and a lady's walking stick as weapons is the sort of cartoony shit I really dig in these run down, back alley indy feds and I loved their use of the surrounding to brawl and beat the piss out of each other. Finish was truly excellent with King hitting a desperation superkick, and with both men down Tucker's right hand man drops underneath the apron and holds King's legs down to stop him answering the count. There were some really unique and well layed out spots here, and I loved Tucker resorting to choking King with a chain to try and force a victory. Just a straight out and out fight that resembled a less chaotic version of Jacobs/Whitmer from FYF.


----------



## asdf0501

Segunda Caida said:


> *El Hijo Del Santo & Villano IV vs El Hijo Del Solitario & Angel Blanco Jr, (TXT 2/25/12)*
> 
> *Blue Panther vs ***** Casas Hair vs Hair, (CMLL 3/2/12)*


This two are my MOTYs behind Cena/Lesnar. The two Callihan vs Finlay are also motherfucking great.


----------



## Bubz

bigbuxxx said:


> Uploaded SSB vs Young Bucks vs Future Shock - ladder match.
> 
> part 1
> part 2
> 
> enjoy


Holy shit balls :mark:. You're awesome!


----------



## Nervosa

bigbuxxx said:


> Uploaded SSB vs Young Bucks vs Future Shock - ladder match.
> 
> part 1
> part 2
> 
> enjoy


Thanks a lot for this, man.

This was a really refreshing ladder match: probably the first ladder match I've seen since the Briscoes/Steenerico one that was actually largely innovative. One of my biggest problems with ladder matches is how idiotic slow climbing can be, but there really wan't any of that here. There were a couple overly-contrived spots where guys did illogical things to set up for spots, and there was one really bad botch that made them have to re-set a spot, but those are small issues for a match that is easily ****1/2 for me.


----------



## Bubz

Nervosa, do you have any 'un-MOTYC's' this year? Just curious lol. Haven't seen you post for ages.


----------



## Nervosa

Haha thanks Bubz. I'm trying to be a little less of a dick around here this time around. You can imagine how well that is working for me, lol.

The big UnMOTY is obviously Taker/Trips, for me. Honestly, I don't actually think there have been that many criminally overrated matches this year. If there have been I just avoid it. I haven't seen Any Edwards match at all this year, I just assume I will hate it. I haven't watched Davey/Elgin yet either, but I can only imagine that would slot in just based on most of the objections to it. ROH is the number one company I need to catch up on, as I haven't seen Steen/Davey yet, which sounded pretty meh. I've seen all the WWE and New Japan that I wanted, so maybe the next step is seeing those two matches.


----------



## Chismo

Segunda Caida said:


> You seen Tajiri/Finlay from SMASH Joe?


Very good shit, but the lack of drama prevents it from being a **** match, IMO. The work was bloody great, a lot of smart and calculate wrestling (which is something I adore) and I appreciate it, but the match needed that one HOLY SHIT or SHEEEEEIT moment to deserve the "great match" label. My rating: ****3/4*

Again, there's nothing really wrong with the match, I just can't go any higher.


----------



## Bubz

Nervosa said:


> Haha thanks Bubz. I'm trying to be a little less of a dick around here this time around. You can imagine how well that is working for me, lol.
> 
> The big UnMOTY is obviously Taker/Trips, for me. Honestly, I don't actually think there have been that many criminally overrated matches this year. If there have been I just avoid it. I haven't seen Any Edwards match at all this year, I just assume I will hate it. I haven't watched Davey/Elgin yet either, but I can only imagine that would slot in just based on most of the objections to it. ROH is the number one company I need to catch up on, as I haven't seen Steen/Davey yet, which sounded pretty meh. I've seen all the WWE and New Japan that I wanted, so maybe the next step is seeing those two matches.


I really liked Davey/Elgin. There's still flaws obviously but there's ton's of great stuff in it. It's the best match Davey has had for probably the last two years in ROH.

Steen/Davey from Border Wars (Steen winning the belt) was just your back and forth ROH main event but with Steen being great as he always is. There's also some really nice character touches from Davey throughout the match becoming more and more frustrated etc with some great facial expressions. I loved it on first watch but drastically lowered my rating on a re-watch because there just wasn't enough substance in it, it didn't go into overkill mode though and was quite short which reduced the annoyance factor of the style for me. 

The BITW no DQ match was a lot of fun just because it was so chaotic with shit happening everywhere and Corino being hilarious on commentary.

Good to see you liked the Naito/Okada match as much as you did though. Fantastic match.



JoeRulz said:


> Very good shit, but the lack of drama prevents it from being a **** match, IMO. The work was bloody great, a lot of smart and calculate wrestling (which is something I adore) and I appreciate it, but the match needed that one HOLY SHIT or SHEEEEEIT moment to deserve the "great match" label. My rating: ****3/4*
> 
> Again, there's nothing really wrong with the match, I just can't go any higher.


I agree with this really. The actual wrestling was bloody fantastic but there just wasn't that atmosphere for me or that stretch to really make the match a true MOTYC, this is another match I reduced my rating on a re-watch this year.


----------



## darkclaudio

SMASH: Finlay vs Tajiri ***1/4
PWG Threemendous III: PWG Tag Team Titles- Super Smash Brothers vs Young Bucks vs Future Shock ****1/2
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada I **** NJPW The Beginning
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada II ****1/4 - NJPW Dominion
Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito ****1/4 - NJPW 40th Anniversary
Kazuchika Okada vs Hirooki Goto **** - NJPW Dontaku

Best WWE Matchs 2012:
The Undertaker vs Triple H ****1/2 - Wrestlemania
Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk ****1/4 - Over The Limit
Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk ****1/4 - MITB
CM Punk vs Chris Jericho **** Extreme Rules
CM Punk vs Chris Jericho ***3/4 - Wrestlemania
The Rock vs John Cena ***3/4 - Wrestlemania
John Cena vs Brock Lesnar ***3/4 Extreme Rules
Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan ***3/4 - Extreme Rules
Money In The Bank for WHC ***3/4 - MITB
Sheamus vs Alberto Del Rio vs Chris Jericho vs Randy Orton ***3/4 Over The Limit

Best TNA Matchs 2012:
Bobby Roode vs Austin Aries ****1/4 - Destination X
James Storm vs Bobby Roode **** - Lockdown
AJ Styles & Kurt Angle vs Kazarian & Daniels **** - Slammiversary
Austin Aries vs Bobby Roode **** - Hardcore Justice
AJ Styles vs Daniels **** - Destination X
A.J. Styles vs Christopher Daniels vs Samoa Joe vs Kurt Angle ***3/4 - Hardcore Justice
Jeff Hardy vs Kurt Angle ***3/4 - Lockdown
Austin Aries vs Samoa Joe ***1/2 - Slammiversary
Kurt Angle vs AJ Styles ***1/2 - Sacrifice


----------



## bigbuxxx

bigbuxxx said:


> Uploaded SSB vs Young Bucks vs Future Shock - ladder match.
> 
> part 1
> part 2
> 
> enjoy


apparently pwg didn't appreciate me uploading their match so it got taken down. apologies


----------



## Nervosa

Bubz said:


> I really liked Davey/Elgin. There's still flaws obviously but there's ton's of great stuff in it. It's the best match Davey has had for probably the last two years in ROH.
> 
> Steen/Davey from Border Wars (Steen winning the belt) was just your back and forth ROH main event but with Steen being great as he always is. There's also some really nice character touches from Davey throughout the match becoming more and more frustrated etc with some great facial expressions. I loved it on first watch but drastically lowered my rating on a re-watch because there just wasn't enough substance in it, it didn't go into overkill mode though and was quite short which reduced the annoyance factor of the style for me.
> 
> The BITW no DQ match was a lot of fun just because it was so chaotic with shit happening everywhere and Corino being hilarious on commentary.
> 
> Good to see you liked the Naito/Okada match as much as you did though. Fantastic match.
> 
> I agree with this really. The actual wrestling was bloody fantastic but there just wasn't that atmosphere for me or that stretch to really make the match a true MOTYC, this is another match I reduced my rating on a re-watch this year.


I heard the Best in the World match was pretty clustered. Should I go out of my way to see it? I can't find either Steen/Davey match, but I'll admit I'm not trying real hard too, either.They both just sounded really skippable.

I'll be watching Elgin/Davey tomorrow. We'll see what happens. I do like Davey more than most...but not much more. Can't say I'm too optimistic. 

O yeah, loved Okada Naito. I don't see it being topped this year.


----------



## Violent By Design

bigbuxxx said:


> Uploaded SSB vs Young Bucks vs Future Shock - ladder match.
> 
> part 1
> part 2
> 
> enjoy


It was fun while it lasted . Ty for the upload.


----------



## Jupiter Jack Daniels

Indy wise, Young Bucks/SSB/Future Shock might be my favorite match of the year. Non stop action and I loved the Rick Knox involvement.


----------



## seabs

Nervosa said:


> I heard the Best in the World match was pretty clustered. Should I go out of my way to see it? I can't find either Steen/Davey match, but I'll admit I'm not trying real hard too, either.They both just sounded really skippable.
> 
> I'll be watching Elgin/Davey tomorrow. We'll see what happens. I do like Davey more than most...but not much more. Can't say I'm too optimistic.
> 
> O yeah, loved Okada Naito. I don't see it being topped this year.


*They're both skippable. I'd be surprised if you really enjoy either. I enjoyed the BITW match but that was an anomaly. Davey/Elgin is very good for that style. Don't go into it expecting too much and accept it for what it is and you should enjoy it, if not love it. *

*John Cena vs Alberto Del Rio - Falls Count Anywhere - Raw 03.09.2012*
_Dug this a lot. Could easily have been put on PPV as a main event and people wouldn't have called it a TV match. Thought it was on par with their LMS match last year which I really enjoyed too. Del Rio is far from great but he tends to do well in brawls where he can bump around. Table spot was super. Armbar and STFU reversals sequence was really swanky. Liked the way they actually played to the stip and not what the usually do, especially on TV where they work a regular match with a few spots and falls on the floor. Finish was good, aftermath was great. Just behind Sheamus/Bryan from a few weeks but a strong contender for TV MOTY._

******


----------



## smitlick

There are points in the Border Wars Steen/Davey match that will probably annoy you greatly...


----------



## Flux

SSB vs. The Bucks vs. Futureshock I can not rate, in a similar fashion to Cena/Lesnar. It's so different, so fresh and so whacky and outlandish that putting a rating on it wouldn't be doing the match justice, whether I slap a ** or a ***** on it. Whatever rating a put on a match like this is going to be wrong regardless, simply because there are a hell of a lot of flaws in the match that I would usually nitpick in other matches, but just because of how the match went and what the match was like, those flaws mean fuck all in the grand scheme of things, despite them being clearly visible. A definite MOTYC in my opinion, but if you were to say it was one of the worst matches of the year, I wouldn't blame you. Much like Cena/Brock, it's a very difficult match to watch, analyse and rate.

But it is still my PWG MOTY so far. I need to catch up on some Puro because I've been extremely lazy with that, but I wouldn't be surprised if on a rewatch at the end of the year, the triple threat ladder match does end up being my personal favourite MOTY.


----------



## Bubz

Nervosa said:


> I heard the Best in the World match was pretty clustered. Should I go out of my way to see it? I can't find either Steen/Davey match, but I'll admit I'm not trying real hard too, either.They both just sounded really skippable.
> 
> I'll be watching Elgin/Davey tomorrow. We'll see what happens. I do like Davey more than most...but not much more. Can't say I'm too optimistic.
> 
> O yeah, loved Okada Naito. I don't see it being topped this year.


I enjoyed the BITW match but it was by no means a great match. More so to do with how much it reminded me of an old school ECW brawl. It's really clustered yeah, but some of the shit that happens legit made me laugh out loud. Not sure it was supposed to be funny or not (apart from Corino's commentary) but everyone from Cornette to Sinclair to Bobby Cruise to Corino and even O'Reilly before the match get's invovled. It's just ridiculous tbh but I found it highly entertaining. Again, not really a good match as much as it was a huge angle.

But yeah, you won't miss much if you skip them as far as quality wrestling goes.


----------



## Nervosa

Seabs said:


> *They're both skippable. I'd be surprised if you really enjoy either. I enjoyed the BITW match but that was an anomaly. Davey/Elgin is very good for that style. Don't go into it expecting too much and accept it for what it is and you should enjoy it, if not love it. *


Wow....you were totally right. And you too, Bubz. I totally love this match. 

I think the fast start suits Davey's idea that due to the night before, he needed to strike fast. I like how Davey at least almost sorta sold his back through the whole match. I LOVE Elgin's leg selling near the end, and that his collapse was immediately pounced upon. I like most of the spots, which I thought were intense and believable. Favorite part of the match is easily Elgin kicking out at one and spitting on Davey. One unique thing I really enjoyed is that both Davey and Elgin had a MAJOR comeback series, and I thought both were timed really well.

I actually LOVE the ankle lock after the Dragon suplex off the top, and I will tell you why: there was a cover in between. Davey did indeed try to just get the pin after that move: its not like he just followed it up wit ha submission for no reason. Elgin kicked out, and when he did, Davey had the momentum for the ankle lock. It reminded me of that old spot Joe always did where he would hit a sick high angle powerbomb, let them kick out and then use the momentum from the kickout to roll through and lock in an STF.

The errors are clear. Sugunda's point about the Dragon Suplex being WAY too early is 100% true. That said, I didn't really think many of the following spots had anything taken away from them by that spot. To me, that was the completion of Davey's comeback, and set through to the second segment of the match with Davey in control. Some of Davey's strikes were a little glancing, and I can see the argument questioning when Davey should and shouldnt be able to lift Elgin. The finish is downright deflating. If davey hits a DR driver for the win, this is probably ****3/4, as is, it is probably ****1/2 (rewatch pending) I wil say among the 4 or so matches I have at ****1/2, I think this is my favorite one. I just genuinely enjoyed this.


----------



## Chismo

Damn, Bubz, you sound so fucking serious and legit with Tony MOTHERFUCKING Soprano in your avatar. Don't change it.


----------



## seabs

Nervosa said:


> Wow....you were totally right. And you too, Bubz. I totally love this match.
> 
> I think the fast start suits Davey's idea that due to the night before, he needed to strike fast. I like how Davey at least almost sorta sold his back through the whole match. I LOVE Elgin's leg selling near the end, and that his collapse was immediately pounced upon. I like most of the spots, which I thought were intense and believable. Favorite part of the match is easily Elgin kicking out at one and spitting on Davey. One unique thing I really enjoyed is that both Davey and Elgin had a MAJOR comeback series, and I thought both were timed really well.
> 
> I actually LOVE the ankle lock after the Dragon suplex off the top, and I will tell you why: there was a cover in between. Davey did indeed try to just get the pin after that move: its not like he just followed it up wit ha submission for no reason. Elgin kicked out, and when he did, Davey had the momentum for the ankle lock. It reminded me of that old spot Joe always did where he would hit a sick high angle powerbomb, let them kick out and then use the momentum from the kickout to roll through and lock in an STF.
> 
> The errors are clear. Sugunda's point about the Dragon Suplex being WAY too early is 100% true. That said, I didn't really think many of the following spots had anything taken away from them by that spot. To me, that was the completion of Davey's comeback, and set through to the second segment of the match with Davey in control. Some of Davey's strikes were a little glancing, and I can see the argument questioning when Davey should and shouldnt be able to lift Elgin. The finish is downright deflating. If davey hits a DR driver for the win, this is probably ****3/4, as is, it is probably ****1/2 (rewatch pending) I wil say among the 4 or so matches I have at ****1/2, I think this is my favorite one. I just genuinely enjoyed this.


*Where does it rank compared to your other high end MOTYC's?*


----------



## Nervosa

Seabs said:


> *Where does it rank compared to your other high end MOTYC's?*


Its hard this year, mostly because its harder to download all the matches I want, so the list has a lot of things I viewed online instead of just a file I can open and sort. I might be missing something obvious, here. 

Also consider the fact that nearly all of these need to be rewatched:

1. Okada vs. Naito ****3/4
2. Richards vs. Elgin ****1/2
3. Okada vs. Tanahashi (Dominion) ****1/2
4. Lesnar vs. Cena ****1/2
5. Jimmyz vs. Mad Blankey Infinity 252 ****1/2 (oooo, controversial!)
6. CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan OTL ****1/2
7. SSB vs. Bucks vs. Future Shock ****1/2

That is everything I have at 4 1/2 or higher, which is really exciting. The last time I really followed MOTYCs in 2010, I think there was one match I considered that good the whole year. I consider this year a major renaissance, especially since its not just one guy making MOTYCs, its a large pack of very good performers.

Shinsuke/Tanaka vs. Naito/Goto was up there, but it REALLY fell off on the rewatch. I hated the finish to Bryan/Seamus, and didn't dig either Aries/Roode match very much, especially the second. Way too much stuff happened in both those matches for no reason at all. Also really, really hated the first Okada/Tanahashi match this year.


----------



## seabs

> Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW 04.03.2012
> Yuji Hino vs Kota Ibushi - KO-D Openweight Championship - DDT 24.06.2012
> Super Smash Brothers vs Young Bucks - No DQ - PWG Death To All But Metal
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW 16.06.2012
> Kenny Omega vs Hiroshi Yamato - AJPW World Jr. Heavyweight Championship - AJPW 03.01.2012
> Suwama vs Daisuke Sekimoto - AJPW 02.01.2012
> Big Van Walter, Daisuke Sekimoto, 2-Face & Kim Ray vs Axeman, Yoshihito Sasaki, Karsten Beck & Robert Dreissker - 8 Man Elimination Tag - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 3
> Sami Callihan vs El Generico - EVOLVE 13
> Hirooki Goto vs Tomohiro Ishii - NJPW 20.05.2012
> Daisuke Sekimoto, Yuji Okabayashi & Kazuki Hashimoto vs Akebono, Ryuto Hama & Yasufumi Nakanoue - BJW 02.02.2012
> 
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI
> Yuji Nagata & Wataru Inoue vs Masayuki Kono & Minoru - AJPW 03.02.2012
> Prince Devitt vs PAC - NJPW 06.06.2012
> Yoshihito Sasaki vs Daisuke Sekimoto - BJW 26.03.2012
> John Cena vs Brock Lesnar - Extreme Rules Match - Extreme Rules 2012
> CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan - WWE Championship - Over The Limit 2012
> Jushin Liger & Tiger Mask IV vs TAKA Michinoku & Taichi - IWGP Jr. Heavyweight Championships - NJPW 16.06.2012
> Big Van Walter vs Daisuke Sekimoto - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 2
> Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - 2/3 Falls - World Heavyweight Championship - Extreme Rules 2012
> William Regal vs Dean Ambrose - FCW 15.07.2012
> 
> Luke Gallows vs Charlie Dreamer - OSF 07.04.2012
> Jerry Lawler, Derrick King & Frankie Tucker vs Pokerface & LA Hustlers - MCW 03.03.2012
> Max Angelus vs Nick Riley vs Robbie X - SWE 4everevolution
> Finlay vs Johnny Kidd - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 3
> Dean Allmark vs Nathan Cruz - ASW:UK 24.03.2012
> Bobby Roode vs AJ Styles - TNA World Championship - TNA iMPACT 24.05.2012
> Shinjiro Otani & Daichi Hashimoto vs Takeshi Morishima & Katsuhiko Nakajima - NOAH 29.04.2012
> Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin - ROH World Championship - ROH Showdown In The Sun Night 2
> El Generico vs Ricochet - PWG Death To All But Metal
> Kevin Steen vs Brian Cage-Taylor - PWG Death To All But Metal
> 
> Shinsuke Nakamura & Toru Yano vs Go Shiozaki & Naomichi Marufuji - NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI
> AJ Styles & Kurt Angle vs Daniels & Kazarian - TNA Slammiversary X
> Finlay vs Martin Kirby - SWE 4everevolution
> Damien Wayne vs Chris Escobar - VCW 02.06.2012
> Dean Allmark & James Mason vs Rampage Brown & Robbie Dynamite - ASW:UK 17.03.2012
> Ricky Marvin vs Tommy End - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 2
> Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yuji Okabayashi - BJW 26.02.2012
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada - NJPW 12.02.2012
> Austin Aries vs Alex Shelley - TNA Against All Odds 2012


*That's my current list in order.*


----------



## Concrete

PWG TAG TEAM TITLES*
Super Smash Bros. vs Future Shock vs The Young Bucks (Ladder Match):****3/4*
I don’t know what I just watched besides my new MOTY. HOLY BALLS!!!


----------



## seabs

*Kevin Steen vs Willie Mack - PWG World Championship - PWG Threemendous 3*
_Thought this was largely a great run of the Kevin Steen show. Mack's fine but he doesn't really offer much to the match. Steen starting off hot after their last match was great I thought. Absolutely kills Mack from the go and sets the tone for the match perfectly right away with Steen as the dominant champ and Mack as the big underdog working from behind. Thought Steen got the level between intensity and "Steen-ness" bang on. Cage run in at first I thought sucked but then he killed Mack as well and I went from being deflated to the run to it actually enhancing my enjoyment. Cage just comes in to fuck shit up, get his shit in and get himself over at their expense. Knox takes an amazing ref bump prior to it. I absolutely adored Knox rushing to the back straight after the 3 count holding the back of his neck. Psycho Driver finish was cool. Steen's finishes weren't enough to put Mack away so he stepped up to another level of insanity to finish him off. Nice callback not only to their brief run but also on an anniversary show to a PWG pioneer. _

******

*Super Smash Brothers vs Young Bucks vs Future Shock - Ladder Match - PWG World Tag Team Championships - PWG Threemendous 3*
_Yeah this ruled. For anyone who reads this and reads "6 Indy guys in a ladder match on an Indy show", don't go into with that thought process. This isn't your multi man ladder match that's just built around spots to get cheap pops. Obviously it is filled with big spots to get big pops but they get the complimentary stuff to the spots in as well which polishes it up really nicely. Bucks are back to being fabulous again. I was getting annoyed with them for a brief spell where they were just fucking around spoofing legends too much but with the SSB feud they're back to the more serious side with awesome heel shtick. They would have ruled the 80's as either heels or babyfaces. Thought you probably could have took Cole and O'Reilly out of this and the match wouldn't have changed much. Cole was good in it but they were just extras to the SSB/Bucks war. O'Reilly I thought kinda sucked in it actually but he was in passing enough to not really notice. Loved the spot where Cole gets stuck in the ladder in the corner to eliminate him from the match. Could have looked really goofy but Cole made it look like a super struggle to get free. Brawling on the outside to kick off was awesome and set the tone perfectly for WILD CHAOS. Nick being pushed off the ladder only to jump into a springboard senton to the outside had me flipping out all over the place. Supafly getting super kicked in mid air by Matt on the ladder was incredible too. Loads of awesome spots, far too many to name. I liked how they never went overboard though with the spots. Match is pretty short for a 6 person ladder match but in a good way. Match never dragged. If there was a big spot then there were always 2 other guys to pick up the pieces and do something crazy themselves. Nick Jackson is an absolute lunatic in the best way possible. There wasn't any tedious slow ladder climbing and taking ages to set a spot up when you could be climbing the ladder. Knox sub story was awesome and delivered the most satisfying ending possible. Finished at it's peak. Wonderful. Knox fucking blading to get the angle over touched me in a special place. The Knox/Bucks feud has been really subtly built for so long now that anytime Knox flips on them it feels warranted and not a parody like the start of the show with Joey was. THAT dive made me shoot a bird with a rifle from my window. The rifle wasn't even mine.

Probably just ahead of the Bucks/SSB No DQ match and Ibushi/Hino on my list. Think I'd give Naito/Okada the edge still as #1 but I'd really have to rewatch all 4 come the end of the year to decide unless something pops up that eclipses all of them._

*****1/2*


----------



## Bubz

Super excited to see that ladder match now.

This is my MOTYC list currently. Everything **** or over...

Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito (NJPW 04/03) ****1/2
Kazuchika Okada vs Hiroshi Tanahashi (NJPW Dominion) ****1/2
CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan (WWE Over The Limit) ****1/2
Suwama vs Yuji Nagata (AJPW 05/05) ****1/4
Daisuke Sekimoto vs Suwama (AJPW 02/01) ****1/4
Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin (ROH SITS Night Two) ****1/4
Bobby Roode vs Austin Aries (TNA Destination X) ****1/4
Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus (WWE Extreme Rules) ****1/4
Hirooki Goto & Tetsuya Naito vs Masato Tanaka & Shinsuke Nakamura (NJPW Dominion) ****1/4
Kazuchika Okada vs Hirooki Goto (NJPW Dontaku) ****1/4
Katsuhiko Nakajima vs SHINGO (D-Ring 11/02) ****1/4
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki (NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI) ****1/4
Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yoshihito Sasaki (BJW 26/03) ****1/4
Adam Cole vs Kyle O'Reilly (ROH Best In The World) ****1/4
CM Punk vs Chris Jericho (WWE Extreme Rules) ****1/4
Prince Devitt vs Pac (NJPW 06/06) ****1/4
Suwama vs Seiya Sanada (AJPW 04/03) ****1/4
El Generico vs Ricochet (PWG Death To All But Metal) ****1/4
Go Shiozaki vs Takeshi Morishima (NOAH 22/01) ****1/4
Jun Akiyama vs Keiji Mutoh (AJPW 20/03) ****
Jushin Thunder Liger & Tiger Mask vs Taichi & TAKA Michinoku (NJPW Dominion) ****
Horishi Tanahashi vs Togi Makabe (NJPW/AJPW 01/07) ****
CM Punk vs Chris Jericho (WWE Wrestlemania 28) ****
Austin Aries vs Samoa Joe (TNA Slammiversary) ****
The Young Bucks vs The Super Smash Brothers (PWG Death To All But Metal) ****
Yoshihito Sasaki & Yuji Okabayashi vs Daisuke Sekimoto & Big Van Walter (BJW 28/4) ****
Daisuke Sekimoto & Yuji Okabayashi vs Suwama & Takumi Soya (AJPW 20/03) ****
Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs Akebono & Ryuto Hama (BJW 02/01) ****
Lowki vs Prince Devitt (NJPW Dontaku) ****
CM Punk vs Mark Henry (WWE RAW 16/04) ****
NRC vs Apollo 55 (NJPW The New Beginning) ****
Daisuke Sekimoto & Yuji Okabayashi vs Akebono & Ryuto Hama (AJPW 03/01) ****
Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk (WWE Smackdown 21/02) ****
Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk (WWE RAW 30/01) ****
HHH vs Brock Lesnar (WWE Summerslam) ****
Chris Hero vs Michael Elgin (ROH Homecoming) ****
Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yuji Okabayashi (BJW 26/02) ****
Minoru Suzuki vs Togi Makabe (NJPW Dominion) ****
Yuji Nagata & Wataru Inoue vs Masayuki Kono & Minoru (AJPW 03/02) ****

Plan on re-watching a lot of the higher stuff, so some might be lower on rewatches. I'm thinking something like Aries/Roode will drop in rating once I see it again with knowing the result and all.

Also, @ JoeRulz, Thanks lol. Tony's staying for the foreseeable future .


----------



## xzeppelinfootx

Sweet jesus on that Threemendous Ladder Match. I obviously haven't seen every one ever, but I'm sure that has to be one of the top three ladder matches to ever happen on this planet. I don't do the whole star rating thang. But I will give that match 17 rhombuses.


----------



## seabs

*From now on I'm taking no notice of any MOTYC Lists missing Dean Allmark. (Unless you're Bubz because you reminded me on I keep forgetting to list Suwama/Nagata).*


----------



## Bubz

Right, Dean Allmark then...I'll try and get on the matches from your list.

btw, anyone got a link for the Threemendous III ladder match? Figured there would be one in the media section but there's only links for the full show and they've all been taken down now.


----------



## Rah

Seabs said:


> *From now on I'm taking no notice of any MOTYC Lists missing Dean Allmark. (Unless you're Bubz because you reminded me on I keep forgetting to list Suwama/Nagata).*


And I refuse to look at your list without more Memphis/Lawler goodness, dammit!






You n00bz also need to start watching some lucha. <3


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Watched that match before *Rah*. One of the most purely fun and entertaining matches of the year, and each King vs Lawler interactions were outstanding. Precious was also superb working the comedy spots and getting the crowd riled up whenever he was in the ring, but I'd stop short of calling it a MOTYC. Its definitely something that should be watched by everyone, since its got comedy, some superb punches and bumping and a very good screwjob finish, but I don't think its got enough meat to it to properly call it a MOTYC. There's a followup Precious vs Brian Christopher Cage Match however which looks really fucking good.

You seen the King/Tucker 5/25 LMS match btw? I'd call that the best Memphis indy bout I've seen this year, tremendously worked with both guys plastering one another with stiff as hell punches and just using anything to hurt the other (e.g King using a boot and a lady's walking stick). Better than any WWE LMS match since probably Orton/HHH No Mercy, what with them focusing on establishing hatred rather than relying on an assortment of weapons and cute spots. Finish is also tremendous.


----------



## Bubz

At this point I've pretty much decided Lucha isn't my thing for a while, until I try it again at some point in the future. Tried to watch one of the ***** Casas matches that got pimped earlier this year but just didn't find much in it that I enjoyed. Something about the style I just can't seem to get in to.

Managaed to get a hold of Threemendous III...

*Kevin Steen vs Willie Mack - PWG World Championship*
Yeah, this was great. Steen just owning Mack constantly with Mack trying to make comebacks but getting cut off. What's not to like there? Steen just goes after Mack any way he can really, and those whips to the turnbuckle were just nasty. Steen is just great in this. I really liked the Brian Cage run-in a lot, it got him over HUGE and also produced an amazing nearfall. The package piledriver was an even better nearfall and when Mack hit the moonsault I thought there was a new champ. Great match and I loved the finish too. ***** *

*SSB vs Young Bucks vs Future Shock - PWG Tag Team Championships Ladder Match*
Seabs basically said everything I would about this. CHAOS! Loved this so much, balls awesome but not just in a spotty way. No stupid ladder climbing, just an all out war with everyone apart from O'Reilly looking great. O'Reilly dropkicking the ladder into Uno and the fans from the apron was ridiculous though! INSANE dive from Nick Jackson off the ropes after he got pushed off the ladder! Shit that was nutty as fuck. There was other crazy spots but yeah, it wasn't overkill and I loved the all out brawling at the start before the ladders got involved. Really innovative stuff in this too. The Knox stuff made me flip my fucking lid like nothing else this year. Brilliant. Not quite as good as the Steen/Generico ladder match from last year, but still as awesome as a stripper with a machine gun. *****1/2*


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I maintain anyone who loves Jerry Lawler and Memphis brawls would adore the best Lucha brawls, since they're really an extension of that style only replaced with a 2/3 falls format. Sangre Chicana vs MS-1 for example is up there with the best Lawler brawl, and anyone who knows my feelings on Jerry Lawler should recognise that as no small praise.

The co-operation in the matwork can prove distracting for some, which is understandable. But to me again, I'd really struggle to see how Atlantis/Panther 1991, El Dandy vs ***** Casas 1992 and El Dandy vs Javier Llanes which are all matwork based wouldn't appeal to a lot of people on here who dig good matwork.

Damiancito El Guerrero vs Cicloncito Ramirez 1997 is also pretty much a Lucha/Juniors hybrid match worked at a ridiculous pace. Again anyone who digs peak New Japan/Michinoku Pro when it comes to junior matches would really love that match IMO, the pace is so frantic they don't fall into cutely swapping holds with little struggle (something that seems to be a frequent criticism of Lucha matwork) and there's some incredible spots which are built to and sold as difference makers. Its got all the things people adore in Junior matches, but the 2/3 falls format and Lucha style means they avoid some of the pitfalls that plague the junior style, e.g questionable selling, moving from matwork to rope running etc.

This isn't me trying to force anyone to watch Lucha btw, since I can understand why some matches really don't paint the style in a watchable way to a new watcher. I do believe however that those matches I listed really should do a better job at highlighting the best Lucha has to offer, rather than other matches which have some good moments but also have some of the problems that new watchers of Lucha struggle to overcome.


----------



## Cactus

*Random Rewatch: 
Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin - ROH Showdown in the Sun Day 2*

I really don't know why I was so high on this when I first watched this. It was probably the spots that lured me in on my first time but on a second watch I can really see how terrible this match was. There are admittedly some awesome looking spots like the top rope tiger suplex and the fisherman's buster to the floor but there really is nothing behind them and both guys brush themselves off and no-sell their way to next less-impressive spot. 

Davey's flaws really can be seen here. Elgin is meant to be a fucking machine and he should be dominating Davey for a good portion of the start and middle of the match but he just keeps fucking reversing everything and it makes Elgin look like any other ROH midget. It's okay to reverse the odd move and hint at a comeback when you are doing a big man vs little man match but Davey really took the piss and killed any sense of structure that Elgin was building. 

Don't get me wrong, Elgin wasn't exactly a star here and he's certainly no Mark Henry when it comes to establishing himself as a force to be reckoned with. While Davey's levels of no-selling Elgin's suplexes did really annoy me, Elgin kept resorting to that 'Fighting Sprint' comeback way too many times and it was almost comical. One of the best parts of the match was due to Elgin trying to do his little comeback but collapses due to the punishment his ankle has taken. It's the first sign of selling in this match and it was awesome... until Elgin decides to resort back to no-selling once again. 

I'm going on way too much. It's funny how I sometimes struggle to come up with 4-5 lines why I love a match but when tearing this match a new asshole, it all comes naturally. In a nutshell, Richards/Elgin is unstructured mess of a match which spots I would enjoy on their own, but it's really not worth the effort to sit through this sorry excuse of a match.

*Rating: ★¾*


----------



## Violent By Design

not a fan of elgin vs richards either. 


just didn't find it convincing at all. there is actual art to no selling (so in a literal sense, you are still selling), which i didn't think the match did a good job of portraying. it had its moments like when elign would spit and make it seem like he was too mad to get hurt, but often times it was over done or just too wacky considering the moves that had just been done for there to be any real drama.





Young Bucks vs Super Smash Bros - Death to all but metal

Surprisingly, I had fun watching this match. The first 10 mins I was pretty much cringing at how corny the match started out. But eventually a lot of good light hearted wrestling starts leaking out. I enjoy the Chikara-esq comedy side more of PWG more. A lot of spots that were athletically impressive as well as well thought out, like a punchline. The commentary added to the match as well, giving it a very casual vibe. Still think the Young Bucks have terrible body language, and there was practically no heat to the match at all. But all and all, I enjoyed the majority of it, and really thought the ref spots were great. Best PWG match I've seen. 

Young Bucks vs Super Smash Bros vs Future Shock - Threemendous III

Kind of the same as before, but more crazy spots. Like someone else mentioned, PWG has terrible camera work. The spots were more wild than the previous match I talked about, but I don't think they were as well thought out "plot" wise. I rate this a little bit below the Death to All But Metal tag match. The false finish was very convincing, but I thought the ref spot was better in the previous one in the case of less being more.


----------



## seabs

Rah said:


> And I refuse to look at your list without more Memphis/Lawler goodness, dammit!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You n00bz also need to start watching some lucha. <3


*I've got the Lawler/Pokerface 6 man on my list. I have that queued up on YT but I haven't got around to anything for a while now.*


Segunda Caida said:


> Watched that match before *Rah*. One of the most purely fun and entertaining matches of the year, and each King vs Lawler interactions were outstanding. Precious was also superb working the comedy spots and getting the crowd riled up whenever he was in the ring, but I'd stop short of calling it a MOTYC. Its definitely something that should be watched by everyone, since its got comedy, some superb punches and bumping and a very good screwjob finish, but I don't think its got enough meat to it to properly call it a MOTYC. There's a followup Precious vs Brian Christopher Cage Match however which looks really fucking good.
> 
> You seen the King/Tucker 5/25 LMS match btw? I'd call that the best Memphis indy bout I've seen this year, tremendously worked with both guys plastering one another with stiff as hell punches and just using anything to hurt the other (e.g King using a boot and a lady's walking stick). Better than any WWE LMS match since probably Orton/HHH No Mercy, what with them focusing on establishing hatred rather than relying on an assortment of weapons and cute spots. Finish is also tremendous.


*Have you seen the Lawler/Pokerface 6 man btw? Wasn't huge on the King/Tucker match but King is indeed great. Watch Gallows/Dreamer too. Best brawl this year for me.*


----------



## Certified G

Just got done watching Bucks vs SSB vs FS. I really enjoyed it and I thought it was an awesome match but I didn't seem to enjoy it as much as others on here. There were some amazing spots that had me marking out (Nick Jackson landing on the rope after getting pushed off the ladder for example), however there were a couple things that bothered me. 
I'm a big fan of spotfests and don't care much for psychology or anything like that, as mentioned before the camera work was pretty bad occasionally (mostly in the beginning, they picked up nearly all the other big spots after the first couple minutes). There were also some stupid things that I didn't like. One was when Nick Jackson was rotating the ladder on his neck and Matt started applauding him and walked into the ladder not once, but twice. That was imo stupid and just bothered me.

Overal it was a really fun match, especially the last 5 or so minutes when the ref got involved was alot of fun. I'd definitely recommend watching this match as the good things greatly outweigh the bad.


----------



## seabs

*It's called a comedy spot. Bucks are notorious for being goofballs that often end up hurting each other when they get carried away. Not sure how the camera work at the start was a fault. How else were they supposed to shoot it with brawling at each end of hall. They didn't miss anything of note.*


----------



## Matt_Yoda

*AR Fox vs. Dave Crist- CZW World Jr. Hvt/CZW Wired TV Championship- Title Unification Ladder Match
CZW Down With The Sickness 2012: Crist vs. Fox*

-Damn was this match insane, started off hot with multiple dive spots and stayed at a solid pace for a majority of the match. Lots of great back and forth and they kept the ladder in play. Despite all of the chaos, they managed to top it down the finishing stretch and the crowd bought into everything. Easily top 5 CZW MOTY if not top 3, Dave Crist and AR Fox get mad respect for their efforts.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Seabs said:


> *I've got the Lawler/Pokerface 6 man on my list. I have that queued up on YT but I haven't got around to anything for a while now.*
> 
> 
> *Have you seen the Lawler/Pokerface 6 man btw? Wasn't huge on the King/Tucker match but King is indeed great. Watch Gallows/Dreamer too. Best brawl this year for me.*


Nope, I actually saw your review of it and wanted to watch it alongside all the other 2012 Lucha/Indy stuff I wrote about a few days back, but the Youtube link I found for it had been removed and came up short elsewhere.

Gallows/Dreamer is on the next batch of matches I plan to watch, alongside the Precious/Bryan Christopher Cage Match.


----------



## FITZ

Matt_Yoda said:


> *AR Fox vs. Dave Crist- CZW World Jr. Hvt/CZW Wired TV Championship- Title Unification Ladder Match
> CZW Down With The Sickness 2012: Crist vs. Fox*
> 
> -Damn was this match insane, started off hot with multiple dive spots and stayed at a solid pace for a majority of the match. Lots of great back and forth and they kept the ladder in play. Despite all of the chaos, they managed to top it down the finishing stretch and the crowd bought into everything. Easily top 5 CZW MOTY if not top 3, Dave Crist and AR Fox get mad respect for their efforts.


I haven't seen the PWG ladder match yet but I was saw this one live and it was totaly insane what they did in the ring. I'm not sure if I would put it here because it was just a huge spotfest but they do deserve credit for taking the risks that they did. There are a few different times in the match where I was saying to myself, "They really can't be thinking if doing this." And then they went and did it. My biggest problem with this was really just how much time they spent setting up for the spots. I'll get over those things I didn't like about it because I was in shock most of the match. I mean when the match was over and Fox/Crist had left the ringside area a lot of the fans just stood there in shock. I mean we all knew the show was over but everyone just kind of stood there thinking, "What the fuck was that." 

I really need to see that PWG ladder match now. I'm wondering if it was on the same levels of insanity as this one.


----------



## Certified G

Seabs said:


> *It's called a comedy spot. Bucks are notorious for being goofballs that often end up hurting each other when they get carried away. Not sure how the camera work at the start was a fault. How else were they supposed to shoot it with brawling at each end of hall. They didn't miss anything of note.*


Comedy or not, I thought it was stupid. I haven't seen that many Young Bucks matches so sorry if I don't know all their antics.

They shoot with multiple camera's right? There was one point where there wasn't really anything happening on the screen yet you could hear the crowd go nuts over a spot, or the commentary talking about how Player Uno just Fall Away Slam'd a fan into someone else. But you were there live? Since you know they didn't miss anything of note?


----------



## darkclaudio

NJPW 9/09 Yuji Nagata, Jun Akiyama & Masaaki Mochizuki vs Kazuchika Okada, Shinsuke Nakamura & Yujiro Takahashi **3/4|***


----------



## darkclaudio

No Surrender 2012:
-Jeff Hardy vs Samoa Joe **3/4
-Bully Ray vs James Storm ***
-Knockouts Championship: Miss Tessmacher vs Tara *3/4
-Austin Aries Challenge **1/2
-X-Division Championship: Zema Ion vs Sonjay Dutt ***1/4
-Rob Van Dam vs Magnus **1/4
-World Tag Team Championship: Daniels & Kazarian vs AJ Styles & Kurt Angle ****
-Jeff Hardy vs Bully Ray **1/2


----------



## Matt_Yoda

TaylorFitz said:


> I haven't seen the PWG ladder match yet but I was saw this one live and it was totaly insane what they did in the ring. I'm not sure if I would put it here because it was just a huge spotfest but they do deserve credit for taking the risks that they did. There are a few different times in the match where I was saying to myself, "They really can't be thinking if doing this." And then they went and did it. My biggest problem with this was really just how much time they spent setting up for the spots. I'll get over those things I didn't like about it because I was in shock most of the match. I mean when the match was over and Fox/Crist had left the ringside area a lot of the fans just stood there in shock. I mean we all knew the show was over but everyone just kind of stood there thinking, "What the fuck was that."
> 
> I really need to see that PWG ladder match now. I'm wondering if it was on the same levels of insanity as this one.


I agree with you man, If I used stars I'd put it at a solid **** (****1/4 being generous) based on the type of match they would have. The setting up for the spots did irked me a bit but I won't rag on the little things too much since the bigger picture made up for it, as is usually the case with these types of matches. I saw how the crowd was reacting to everything and I can only imagine how it was being there live.


----------



## FITZ

Matt_Yoda said:


> I agree with you man, If I used stars I'd put it at a solid **** (****1/4 being generous) based on the type of match they would have. The setting up for the spots did irked me a bit but I won't rag on the little things too much since the bigger picture made up for it, as is usually the case with these types of matches. I saw how the crowd was reacting to everything and I can only imagine how it was being there live.


Scary. I was in the second row and had a few spots happen right in front of me. When Fox got up after he did the dive over the top rope through the guardrail I was shocked because he hit the ground so hard. I've seen death matches before and this is one of the more brutal and dangerous matches that I've seen live.


----------



## Rickey

*TNA No Surrender 2012*

Kurt Angle and AJ Styles vs. Christopher Daniels and Kazarian(c) for the Tag Titles.
Also recommend: Zema Ion(c) vs. Sonjay Dutt for the X-Division Title.


----------



## Yeah1993

Sebas any chance you saved Lawler/King/Tucker v Pokerface/Hustlers before it was taken down?


----------



## blink_41sum_182

PWG Threemendous III - Young Bucks vs. Super Smash Bros vs. Future Shock - **** 3/4

For some reason, I still prefer the DTABM Bucks vs. Smash Bros a little bit better but both are **** 3/4 and 2 of my favorite matches ever. So fucking awesome.


----------



## seabs

Yeah1993 said:


> Sebas any chance you saved Lawler/King/Tucker v Pokerface/Hustlers before it was taken down?


*No :sad:

I don't save youtube rips anymore after I'm done with them because I just figure they'll stay on there.*


----------



## Yeah1993

Doesn't matter, after I asked you Phil Schneider posted me a link to a different upload. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQqKYIXkgLk&feature=plcp

I probably still won't watch it until 2019.


----------



## djmathers1207

KENTA vs. Marufuji ****1/2-****1/4


----------



## geraldinhio

*PWG Threemendous III - Young Bucks vs. Super Smash Bros vs. Future Shock *

Finally got around to watching it. It was crazy to say the least. Some fantastic spots and the stuff with Knox is just pure gold. PWG built him vs The Bucks to perfection. Reminded me of the three team guerilla warfare and that's a good thing. ****1/2 

Have to watch Steen/Mack yet and can't wait to see Cage/Edwards. Cage is 2012's breakout star , a great all rounder. Hopefully PWG put the belt on him soon.


----------



## Caponex75

I'm glad I wasn't the only one that thinks the Ladder match was fucking marvelous. It has to be in PWG's top four if you ask me(Steen vs. Dragon, Generico vs. Steen ladder, Richards vs. Hero). I am saddened I'm the only one that adored Shiozaki vs. Morishima though.


----------



## Bubz

Haven't gotten around to watching Go/Shima yet. Was it better than their last match were Mori' won the belt? Because I really liked that match, and seemed to be in the minority.


----------



## 5*RVD

Bubz said:


> Super excited to see that ladder match now.
> 
> This is my MOTYC list currently. Everything **** or over...
> 
> Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito (NJPW 04/03) ****1/2
> Kazuchika Okada vs Hiroshi Tanahashi (NJPW Dominion) ****1/2
> CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan (WWE Over The Limit) ****1/2
> Suwama vs Yuji Nagata (AJPW 05/05) ****1/4
> Daisuke Sekimoto vs Suwama (AJPW 02/01) ****1/4
> Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin (ROH SITS Night Two) ****1/4
> Bobby Roode vs Austin Aries (TNA Destination X) ****1/4
> Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus (WWE Extreme Rules) ****1/4
> Hirooki Goto & Tetsuya Naito vs Masato Tanaka & Shinsuke Nakamura (NJPW Dominion) ****1/4
> Kazuchika Okada vs Hirooki Goto (NJPW Dontaku) ****1/4
> Katsuhiko Nakajima vs SHINGO (D-Ring 11/02) ****1/4
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki (NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI) ****1/4
> Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yoshihito Sasaki (BJW 26/03) ****1/4
> Adam Cole vs Kyle O'Reilly (ROH Best In The World) ****1/4
> CM Punk vs Chris Jericho (WWE Extreme Rules) ****1/4
> Prince Devitt vs Pac (NJPW 06/06) ****1/4
> Suwama vs Seiya Sanada (AJPW 04/03) ****1/4
> El Generico vs Ricochet (PWG Death To All But Metal) ****1/4
> Go Shiozaki vs Takeshi Morishima (NOAH 22/01) ****1/4
> Jun Akiyama vs Keiji Mutoh (AJPW 20/03) ****
> Jushin Thunder Liger & Tiger Mask vs Taichi & TAKA Michinoku (NJPW Dominion) ****
> Horishi Tanahashi vs Togi Makabe (NJPW/AJPW 01/07) ****
> CM Punk vs Chris Jericho (WWE Wrestlemania 28) ****
> Austin Aries vs Samoa Joe (TNA Slammiversary) ****
> The Young Bucks vs The Super Smash Brothers (PWG Death To All But Metal) ****
> Yoshihito Sasaki & Yuji Okabayashi vs Daisuke Sekimoto & Big Van Walter (BJW 28/4) ****
> Daisuke Sekimoto & Yuji Okabayashi vs Suwama & Takumi Soya (AJPW 20/03) ****
> Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs Akebono & Ryuto Hama (BJW 02/01) ****
> Lowki vs Prince Devitt (NJPW Dontaku) ****
> CM Punk vs Mark Henry (WWE RAW 16/04) ****
> NRC vs Apollo 55 (NJPW The New Beginning) ****
> Daisuke Sekimoto & Yuji Okabayashi vs Akebono & Ryuto Hama (AJPW 03/01) ****
> Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk (WWE Smackdown 21/02) ****
> Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk (WWE RAW 30/01) ****
> HHH vs Brock Lesnar (WWE Summerslam) ****
> Chris Hero vs Michael Elgin (ROH Homecoming) ****
> Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yuji Okabayashi (BJW 26/02) ****
> Minoru Suzuki vs Togi Makabe (NJPW Dominion) ****
> Yuji Nagata & Wataru Inoue vs Masayuki Kono & Minoru (AJPW 03/02) ****
> 
> Plan on re-watching a lot of the higher stuff, so some might be lower on rewatches. I'm thinking something like Aries/Roode will drop in rating once I see it again with knowing the result and all.
> 
> Also, @ JoeRulz, Thanks lol. Tony's staying for the foreseeable future .


You don't have a handy list with download links for those matches, do you?


----------



## djmathers1207

Kota Ibushi vs. Low Ki Last Rebellion ****1/2-****1/4 [haven't figured out what i would give it]
Low Ki vs. Ryusuke Taguchi Dominion 2012 ****
Tanahashi vs. Okada Dominion 2012 ****1/2-****1/4


----------



## Bubz

5*RVD said:


> You don't have a handy list with download links for those matches, do you?


Just check the media sections, and most of the puro stuff is on dailymotion if you can't find it in the media section.


----------



## 5*RVD

Bubz said:


> Just check the media sections, and most of the puro stuff is on dailymotion if you can't find it in the media section.


Oh thanks, didn't know about dailymotion.


----------



## Caponex75

Bubz said:


> Haven't gotten around to watching Go/Shima yet. Was it better than their last match were Mori' won the belt? Because I really liked that match, and seemed to be in the minority.


I thought it was. The story wasn't more of Go tossing Shima around with some bitching counters but actually coming up with unique offense and the near falls or suspense are extremely well built(Morishima's comeback is pretty rad). Shima's selling could of been better but Go was just awesome in this minus two sloppy bits. Great facial expressions, great random selling, and all their ideas worked. Thousand times better than KENTA/Fuji if you ask me. My favorite part in the match :



Spoiler: For Morishima vs. Shiozaki



Go getting mad speed from ducking all of Shima's lariats and instead of lariating Morishima(The 2009 finish to the Global League finals), he lariats the leg. That makes his submission seems like a done deal and incredibly believable considering a upper lariat might have won him the match but he opted to continue going for the leg. I haven't watched allot of Tanahashi matches recently, however his cloverleaf hasn't had me buying like Go's submission did. That says allot for a guy who isn't a consistent leg worker. Go also Marufujing out of Shima's Backdrop driver surprised the shit out of me and the Go Flasher nearfall was awesome. Simply because Morishima lost the lariat off gave the feeling that he was done.....that Shiozaki had finally climbed that hill. Great great storytelling.


----------



## smitlick

*Chikara - The Ring of Wax*
Mr Touchdown vs ACH
***3/4-****


----------



## Rickey

*WWE Night of Champions 2012*
Dolph Ziggler vs. Randy Orton
CM Punk(c) vs. John Cena


Spoiler: Punk/Cena



I thought it was starting to get ridiculous towards the end with the finishers but still good match.


----------



## FITZ

The Finals of the KOT is my #2 MOTY behind HHH/Undertaker HIAC. One of the best indy matches that I've ever seen. I'll give more thoughts once the DVD has been out for a while so I don't spoil anything but I will say that the Finals were the best match of the weekend.


----------



## seabs

*CM Punk vs John Cena - WWE Championship - Night Of Champions 2012*
_Match of two halves. First half I thought was really great and seemed to be progressing towards MOTYC territory if it carried on that way. It really didn't though. Positives out of the way first because yay for negatives. This felt like a major title match. Crowd probably didn't match Punk and Cena in that aspect but they worked a really good top dog vs top dog match. Played nicely off their history too with them both having counters for the others trademark stuff and being forced to bust out new stuff. Punk just kicking Cena's arm to counter the 5KS was sweet and Cena dropping the theatrics and just concentrating on landing the punch later was maybe the highlight of the entire match. Either that or Cena busting out a desperation suicide dive when the opening arose. Heyman's reaction to it was the absolute best. Heyman added a ton to this I thought. Looked like a manager thinking strategy on the outside rather than a cheerleader like Vickie is. There was a spot later on when Cena started taking control when Punk looked to him for a different game plan and Heyman just yelled "I'm thinking". Heyman's the best non wrestling character ever for me and he just continues to push forward ahead of anyone else. Punk's stalling at the start was really bossy and definitely intensified his heat. Then Punk hit a GTS and the match fell apart. Top dog vs top dog PPV main event so you know they're both gonna kick out of a finisher each. At least make them good stand alone near falls. These fucking sucked. Made both the AA and the GTS look like secondary moves the way they just threw them out there and they had no effect on the momentum of the match. Cena sells nicely during the first two thirds of the match but once the heavy artillery comes out he sells nothing. Finishers came out of nowhere and if you're doing a finisher kick out then it needs to be fought over and built to rather than just throwing one out there. The stuff they kicked out wasn't 100% the problem, it was the way they did the finisher near falls. They didn't even sell for a bit and then make a late pin to kinda protect the move. That moonsault. Holy cow. It's no secret that Punk isn't a very graceful wrestler but that took the biscuit. Knew as soon as he went up and had Cena positioned where he was that it wouldn't turn out well. Got nowhere near Cena with it and it looked ugly as fuck. Rock Bottom spot was neat. Crowd actually reacted to this time unlike during the Lawler match. I was fine with that not getting a 3 and that was actually a good near fall. Cena popping right up from it like he was playing possum sucked though. Actual finish wasn't that good either. Feels like they've done that double pin copout finish with Punk way too much this year. You could see it coming too. Cena never does a suplex from the middle rope so why is he going to that now? Shouldn't he have been going for an FU off there. Double small package would have been a lot better and had the same outcome. Remember when Shawn and HHH did the double pin finish in 03 I think and it ruled because it was a legit finish but Shawn just so happened to have his shoulders down too, rather than being an actual double pin spot. I think Shawn kinda did that pin risking his shoulders being down in the build to that match too. Would have been cool if Cena had started doing the suplex from the ropes in the build to the match and hadn't quite mastered it yet. Punk's reaction to keeping the title got pretty damn close to making up for the shoddyness though. That was amazing. Real shame that they ruined what was building to a really great match but there was still enough great stuff prior to the first GTS for me to still really like it._

******


----------



## Bubz

*Punk vs Cena* was an odd one for me. I seriously thought for the first two thirds it was going to my new MOTY. They kind of lost me towards the end, but not because I actually thought anything was bad. Punk working on top is where he really shines, and working from the bottom is where Cena is best, so that structure really worked and it played off their two PPV matches last year. Punk's facial expressions throughout while he constantly one upped and cut Cena off were amazing. Loved how he had a counter for everything, and basically wrestled a perfect match but still couldn't put Cena down and got gradually more and more pissed about it. The interactions with Heyman outside (who was amazing btw) reminded me of Austin/Rock @ WM 17 with Austin getting so frustrated and looking to Vince for advice etc. Really added a lot to the match imo and it was a great story. Match really made both guys look like the top guys in the company and I loved them both having to bust out new shit because they couldn't get the job done. Cena's suicide dive was surreal and awesome and wonderful. Punk's moonsault was atrocious, but that didn't bother me because the way he did it looked as though he knew he couldn't do it, but was prepared to do anything by that point. What brings the match down for me is the way they went about the near falls towards the end. The fact that there were a lot of them didn't bother me because it worked in the context of the match, but they weren't believable. I never thought Punk was losing to the first AA and I never thought Cena was losing to the first GTS etc. Rock Bottom was fucking awesome though, and Punk's face after he hit it was amazing. There were also parts you could clearly see them talking to eachother and working out what to do next and that really took me out of it a bit towards the end. When Cena put Punk up top I knew something stupid was going to happen, and yeah, that finish was just weird because when has Cena ever attempted a normal German before let alone a middle rope one. Just seemed unbelievable that Cena would do that for some reason. Punk's reaction to hearing the decision had been reversed and he still had the belt was pure gold though. What a smarmy little dick. Seriously thought Punk was BITW material in this tbh with his character work and little things he'd do like really sell the leg after the STF. How many people do that? I can't think of any, but Punk does it and it's what makes me like him so much. Cena was great too though, being worked over he's great here. Annoyed me when he popped up straight after a GTS (I think) and went for the AA but that's to be expected form his character. So yeah, I adored a lot of this tbh, but the last run kind of just felt flat to me. Still, what came before was legit MOTY material imo, and I can't really ignore that. It's not like I even thought it was that bad in the home run, just kind of zoned out of it and I really want to re-watch it. It definitely felt 'epic' and had a huge feel to it, something that only these two guys could do with the current roster imo.

Think I'm going to wait untill I watch it again later to put a rating on it.


----------



## seabs

*Damian Steele & Giovanni vs Pee Wee & Johnny Jack Spade - NSPW Kickoff 2012*
_THIS. WAS. AWESOME. Might be my favourite Indy match this year outside of PWG. I kinda jokingly said to myself during this Steele and Giovanni were the best tag team on the Indies based on this and it's not as far from the truth as it sounds. They're fucking killers. Super stiff strikes that make you genuinely sorry for the guy on the receiving end. Awesome control segment workers which is such a rarity these days anywhere, nevermind on a little show in Canada. Babyfaces are decent but they have some fun aerial spots that get over and one of them takes a great beating. This is the Steele/Giovanni show though and I need to track down as much of these two as I can. KO by Lariat is my favourite finish ever too. THIS is how you fucking hit a lariat my son._

******


----------



## Violent By Design

Cena doing a German suplex from the top rope makes perfect sense. By then it was already well established that Cena and Punk couldn't put each other away with their usual moves, so they were using moves that they were not used too doing.


----------



## Bubz

The thing is, it looked terrible and the move was only used as a way to have both guys shoulder's down. Why wouldn't Cena go for an AA from the ropes like he's used as a big match finish before? Just didn't make sense to me that he'd go for that instead of going for something from that position that he's used quite a few times before to win matches. I don't think they planned that finish well enough and they fluffed the move too which only took more away from it.


----------



## bigbuxxx

it didn't look great but i also don't want them to kill themselves doing the move. i thought the finish was A+.


----------



## seabs

*There's much better ways to set up a double pin than what they did. AA and Cena falls over Punk with his shoulders down on the mat. Anything other than a spot which is deliberately done to set up a double pin.*


----------



## Rickey

Yeah Seabs Punk's reaction was great reminded me of how Bryan looked after finding out that he won by DQ a little while back. Minus the actual 'yessing'








Think from now on Punk's gonna have a reign similar to JBL's and Bobby Roode's where he finds ways to win no matter what but he doesn't care because he's still the champion. Also like that fans reaction in this gif he's like "ohhh"

Enjoyed reading through the writeups above.


----------



## Violent By Design

Bubz said:


> Why wouldn't Cena go for an AA from the ropes like he's used as a big match finish before?


because he was behind punk, and really you're looking way into this! you could ask "why so and so would do this" just about every spot in nearly every match. where i come from, a german suplex from the top rope is a pretty powerful maneuver. dont see why he has to go with the AA, just because.

i mean why would someone go for a rock bottom, when you can go for a go to sleep? it's just as illogical, only backed by the theme of them trying out new maneuvers.


while we're on topic, I think their Summerslam match from last year is still their best. But this one was pretty cool, really liked CM Punk's acting. Didn't think they did a good job no-selling though.


----------



## Yeah1993

top rope german is definitely a credible finish, but after all of those kick outs and shit it felt really deflating. It was like a little downtime in the finisher stretch, and I looked away for a second.......match is over. It was confusing as hell and on a replay it didn't even look good.


----------



## Zatiel

I greatly preferred Ziggler/Orton to Punk/Cena. The break may come down to preferring build over spots - they spent that whole match making the Landslide DDT look dangerous, hit it once and it was huge. Meanwhile Punk and Cena doing their finishers over and over, and sometimes just hulking up to hit one yet again, got ridiculous to me. I'll take Ziggler desperately chasing Orton and leaping for the Sleeper Hold over anything from the main event.

Still liked Punk/Cena, but by the point at which Cena had taken two straight finishers and charged across the ring to herc Punk into a Fireman's Carry, it had jumped the shark for me. I agree with Seabs that the first half of that match was pure class, though, very akin to their MITB and Summerslam matches.


----------



## Bubz

Violent By Design said:


> because he was behind punk, and really you're looking way into this! you could ask "why so and so would do this" just about every spot in nearly every match. where i come from, a german suplex from the top rope is a pretty powerful maneuver. dont see why he has to go with the AA, just because.
> 
> i mean why would someone go for a rock bottom, when you can go for a go to sleep? it's just as illogical, only backed by the theme of them trying out new maneuvers.
> 
> 
> while we're on topic, I think their Summerslam match from last year is still their best. But this one was pretty cool, really liked CM Punk's acting. Didn't think they did a good job no-selling though.


Because Cena still had that big move to pull out of the bag, Punk had already hit 2 GTS's and Cena kicked out of both, so he had nothing else of his own left to dish out, hence him going for a moonsault and the Rock Bottom, moves he's never used before.

Dunno, just thought it was only used as a way to have both guys shoulder's down at the end. I mean, why did they think Cena could even pull that move off. A middle rope bridging german suplex pin? Could Cena even do a normal german suplex bridge? It just looked awful imo, and they didn't need to risk the quality of the finish just to have both guys get pinned. Like seabs said, probably loads of other things they could have done without risking the quality and making the crowd not care. Just didn't like it personally. Like I said though, I absolutely loved most of the match, and they looked to be heading to their best match yet for the first two thirds of it.

I agree on the SS match being the best. Adored that match (MITB too, but the SS match took the in-ring work up a notch, and had the best finishing stretch last year imo).


----------



## seabs

*I thought this was gonna be better than their 2 matches last year up until the 1st GTS. Maybe not as special or significant as the MITB match but a tighter match. *


----------



## Last Chancery

Bubz said:


> Because Cena still had that big move to pull out of the bag, Punk had already hit 2 GTS's and Cena kicked out of both, so he had nothing else of his own left to dish out, hence him going for a moonsault and the Rock Bottom, moves he's never used before.
> 
> Dunno, just thought it was only used as a way to have both guys shoulder's down at the end. I mean, why did they think Cena could even pull that move off. A middle rope bridging german suplex pin? Could Cena even do a normal german suplex bridge? It just looked awful imo, and they didn't need to risk the quality of the finish just to have both guys get pinned. Like seabs said, probably loads of other things they could have done without risking the quality and making the crowd not care. Just didn't like it personally. Like I said though, I absolutely loved most of the match, and they looked to be heading to their best match yet for the first two thirds of it.
> 
> I agree on the SS match being the best. Adored that match (MITB too, but the SS match took the in-ring work up a notch, and had the best finishing stretch last year imo).


He used the Rock Bottom a week ago on Raw, and not because he didn't know what else to use, but because it was a shot at The Rock. Punk hates Rocky, and he knows using his finisher against someone who already lost to it, like Cena, would irritate him. I don't remember fully, but I want to say Punk pulled out the Rock Bottom before he hit that second GTS.

Agreed with pretty much everything else, though. The finish was strange but I appreciated seeing both men use moves we haven't seen from them before. I've personally never seen Punk do a moonsault or Cena do a German, and now I know why. But still, it was fucking cool as hell seeing Cena, and Punk for that matter, trying new shit instead of going to the well again for the millionth GTS or AA.

In fact, I almost like how bad those off-arsenal moves looked. Cena doesn't ever use a German suplex, which explains why it looked awful. Punk never uses a moonsault, which is why it looked awful. They were each getting desperate -- as Cena is wont to do in big-match situations (see: WM28) -- so it's expected that those moves would look like garbage. There's a little more charm and realism to watching Cena struggle with a German suplex than if he were to just hit it perfectly. Now, THAT would have been silly.


----------



## EmbassyForever

*NOC 2012:*
CM Punk vs John Cena - ****
Dolph Ziggler vs Randy Orton - ***1/2
Tag opener was enjoyable too.


----------



## Violent By Design

Last Chancery said:


> He used the Rock Bottom a week ago on Raw, and not because he didn't know what else to use, but because it was a shot at The Rock. Punk hates Rocky, and he knows using his finisher against someone who already lost to it, like Cena, would irritate him. I don't remember fully, but I want to say Punk pulled out the Rock Bottom before he hit that second GTS.


But it isn't one thing or the other. I mean obviously it was not completely random that he chose the Rock Bottom, but at that point I think the general feel was that GTS for the 3rd or 4th time wasn't going to work. 


> In fact, I almost like how bad those off-arsenal moves looked. Cena doesn't ever use a German suplex, which explains why it looked awful. Punk never uses a moonsault, which is why it looked awful. They were each getting desperate -- as Cena is wont to do in big-match situations (see: WM28) -- so it's expected that those moves would look like garbage. There's a little more charm and realism to watching Cena struggle with a German suplex than if he were to just hit it perfectly. Now, THAT would have been silly.


That's why I liked the moonsault. A guy like that rarely does the moonsault, so it would make sense that it is sloppy. I believe even the commentators pointed out that it looks like Punk isn't used to high flying based on how it looked aesthetically.




I think if they had eased in the traditional finishes so it meant a bit more, the ending would have come across better. Cena did an epic no sell too after he had "won", granted he always does it.


----------



## Bubz

Yeah Cena just getting up and running around after was hilariously bad.


----------



## seabs

*Cena saying "Can I get least something" along with Punk and Heyman's reactions made the finish ite with me for me a bit at least.

Didn't Punk use the moonsault in his early ROH days. I liked the pulling new tricks out story with Cena using a tope and Punk using the crossface for example. If you're gonna do new stuff though make it look half decent. The moonsault was pig ugly and got nowhere near Cena. I get the "he doesn't do that move so it failed" story but it just looked TOO ugly. I get why they did that and the german double pin and the thinking behind them was sound but the execution in the context of the match wasn't so.*


----------



## FITZ

The moonsault was pretty bad looking. From what I can remember Punk never did a good moonsault but that was exceptionally bad. Haven't seen the whole match because I got back from King of Trios at like 10:30 and I found a stream and Punk was already in an STF. So basically I saw the finishing stretch, which while exciting did seem an awful lot like they were just spamming finishers. But then again I did miss the set up to that stretch so I should be too critical.


----------



## Yeah1993

Punk was doing shitty moonsaults in his early WWE run, and he knows it. IIRC he joked in a 2007 WWE magazine I got that CM stood for Crooked Moonsault.


----------



## Bubz

I remember him saying that on something else too. I thought someone was going to get seriously hurt when Punk jumped for that moonsault. When Cena rolled out of the way, he almost rolled straight under Punk, looked pretty dangerous. Hoping Punk will never do that again because apart from that everything he did was amazing. From his character work and expressions to his control segments. The man was on point.


----------



## Last Chancery

At least it was somewhat apparent that Cena moved out of the way when they replayed it. That moonsault wasn't meant to connect anyway, which is why it looked so horrible initially, but upon seeing that replay, it made it slightly better.

He also used it during like, the 24th minute of a 27-minute match, if I remember correctly. He was exhausted and desperate and hadn't done one in a long time, so from a logical standpoint, it doesn't bother me that it looked so terrible.


----------



## Stardust Genius

*wXw FAN 2012 - Night 1*
*
Axel "Axeman" Tischer vs. Davey Richards*
Slightly better than the match from Axeman against Eddie Edwards from last year. Especially some counters were really great. ***3/4+

*RockSkillet (Jay Skillet & Jonathan Gresham) vs. LDRS (Zack Sabre Jr. & Marty Scurll) *
This match had everything: Amazing mat wrestling at the beginning, a good isolation in the middle and a very hot finish. ****

*Big Van Walter vs. Bad Bones *
A great heavyweight war. Both gave everything they had and due to this match, Walter was not able to compete at the next day. ****-


----------



## thearmofbarlow

I can't be the only one here that watched King of Trios, can I? Best match of the whole thing was the SENDAI Girls vs The Young Bucks with Mike Bennett. He's a bunch of 5' tall 130 pound Japanese women beating the shit out of 6' tall muscled (well, at least Bennett is...) men... and they made it work! The whole thing was filled with badass matches but this one was on another level. Easily my favorite match of the year.


----------



## Last Chancery

Davey Richards and Kyle O'Reilly vs. Sami Callihan and BJ Whitmer from Friday's AAW show. This was one stiff as fuck tag match. At a little over 22 minutes, this match received a couple "this is awesome" chants and a standing ovation in the middle of it. Light on selling (of course) but it had a finish that came out of no where. I'll have to wait for the DVD, but maybe ****1/4? Maybe less, maybe more. Look out for this one.

And avoid, at all costs, Elgin vs. Silas for the AAW Heritage and Heavyweight Championships in an I Quit Match. Overbooked snoozer at over 41 minutes. Won't spoil the finish, or who won (you can do that on your own), but the only time the crowd was alive was after the final bell rang. Maybe a little at the beginning, but other than that, silence. Dead silence. What's more is Elgin botched so bad, it warranted multiple "boring" chants from the crowd. Loud chants. Just brutal. At one point in the match, Silas tied Elgin to the ropes using duct tape -- but Silas took a minute to open the tape roll, and it was painfully awkward to watch him bite at it and everything. Then, Elgin one-upped his botching ass by getting his hand stuck on the top rope after Silas taped him to it. First, Elgin tried severing the tape. That took a minute and didn't work. Crowd was getting antsy. Then he had the genius idea of trying to unscrew the top turnbuckle to free himself. Two more minutes, the turnbuckle doesn't unscrew. Crowd is furious. Boring chants start. Elgin starts tearing at the tape, pulling at it. Finally, he frees himself. It was like that time Mark Henry spent five minutes trying to get the cage door open but couldn't, only much, much worse. Felt bad for the guy, he got shat on hard. Wouldn't be surprised to see it on a Botchamania. *3/4 -- just painful.


----------



## smitlick

thearmofbarlow said:


> I can't be the only one here that watched King of Trios, can I? Best match of the whole thing was the SENDAI Girls vs The Young Bucks with Mike Bennett. He's a bunch of 5' tall 130 pound Japanese women beating the shit out of 6' tall muscled (well, at least Bennett is...) men... and they made it work! The whole thing was filled with badass matches but this one was on another level. Easily my favorite match of the year.


People have seen it. There just avoiding posting spoilers about it till most have got there DVDs.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

Last Chancery said:


> And avoid, at all costs, Elgin vs. Silas for the AAW Heritage and Heavyweight Championships in an I Quit Match. Overbooked snoozer at over 41 minutes. Won't spoil the finish, or who won (you can do that on your own), but the only time the crowd was alive was after the final bell rang. Maybe a little at the beginning, but other than that, silence. Dead silence. What's more is Elgin botched so bad, it warranted multiple "boring" chants from the crowd. Loud chants. Just brutal. At one point in the match, Silas tied Elgin to the ropes using duct tape -- but Silas took a minute to open the tape roll, and it was painfully awkward to watch him bite at it and everything. Then, Elgin one-upped his botching ass by getting his hand stuck on the top rope after Silas taped him to it. First, Elgin tried severing the tape. That took a minute and didn't work. Crowd was getting antsy. Then he had the genius idea of trying to unscrew the top turnbuckle to free himself. Two more minutes, the turnbuckle doesn't unscrew. Crowd is furious. Boring chants start. Elgin starts tearing at the tape, pulling at it. Finally, he frees himself. It was like that time Mark Henry spent five minutes trying to get the cage door open but couldn't, only much, much worse. Felt bad for the guy, he got shat on hard. Wouldn't be surprised to see it on a Botchamania. *3/4 -- just painful.


I knew it, I just knew this match was going to be lackluster but I didn't think it would be this bad. Like I said earlier, I only like these types of matches from major promotions as indy promotions can never get these types of matches right and this yet again proves it.


----------



## smitlick

*IWRG - 22/1/12*

Black Terry vs Chico Che
****

Looking forward to the Hair match as well.


----------



## Violent By Design

Last Chancery said:


> And avoid, at all costs, Elgin vs. Silas for the AAW Heritage and Heavyweight Championships in an I Quit Match. Overbooked snoozer at over 41 minutes. Won't spoil the finish, or who won (you can do that on your own), but the only time the crowd was alive was after the final bell rang. Maybe a little at the beginning, but other than that, silence. Dead silence. What's more is Elgin botched so bad, it warranted multiple "boring" chants from the crowd. Loud chants. Just brutal. At one point in the match, Silas tied Elgin to the ropes using duct tape -- but Silas took a minute to open the tape roll, and it was painfully awkward to watch him bite at it and everything. Then, Elgin one-upped his botching ass by getting his hand stuck on the top rope after Silas taped him to it. First, Elgin tried severing the tape. That took a minute and didn't work. Crowd was getting antsy. Then he had the genius idea of trying to unscrew the top turnbuckle to free himself. Two more minutes, the turnbuckle doesn't unscrew. Crowd is furious. Boring chants start. Elgin starts tearing at the tape, pulling at it. Finally, he frees himself. It was like that time Mark Henry spent five minutes trying to get the cage door open but couldn't, only much, much worse. Felt bad for the guy, he got shat on hard. Wouldn't be surprised to see it on a Botchamania. *3/4 -- just painful.


Kinda makes me want to watch it.


----------



## Bubz

LOL! That sounds amazing tbh.


----------



## Last Chancery

From a comedic perspective, I can see it being funny, but it hurt hearing Elgin get shit on SO hard. It was just horrible. He even cut a post-match promo that talked about that, saying he didn't care if we cheered him or shit on him, blah blah.


----------



## KingCrash

Last Chancery said:


> And avoid, at all costs, Elgin vs. Silas for the AAW Heritage and Heavyweight Championships in an I Quit Match. Overbooked snoozer at over 41 minutes. Won't spoil the finish, or who won (you can do that on your own), but the only time the crowd was alive was after the final bell rang. Maybe a little at the beginning, but other than that, silence. Dead silence. What's more is Elgin botched so bad, it warranted multiple "boring" chants from the crowd. Loud chants. Just brutal. At one point in the match, Silas tied Elgin to the ropes using duct tape -- but Silas took a minute to open the tape roll, and it was painfully awkward to watch him bite at it and everything. Then, Elgin one-upped his botching ass by getting his hand stuck on the top rope after Silas taped him to it. First, Elgin tried severing the tape. That took a minute and didn't work. Crowd was getting antsy. Then he had the genius idea of trying to unscrew the top turnbuckle to free himself. Two more minutes, the turnbuckle doesn't unscrew. Crowd is furious. Boring chants start. Elgin starts tearing at the tape, pulling at it. Finally, he frees himself. It was like that time Mark Henry spent five minutes trying to get the cage door open but couldn't, only much, much worse. Felt bad for the guy, he got shat on hard. Wouldn't be surprised to see it on a Botchamania. *3/4 -- just painful.


That's so disappointing from a match I expected a lot more out of. Liked their first match despite the interference, loved the 60 min. match and even their ROH match was good so I thought they'd kill it here. How was ACH/Hollister?


----------



## PowerandGlory

silas vs elgin was hilarious bad. elgin unscrewing the turnbuckle had to take a solid 5 minutes.


----------



## Last Chancery

KingCrash said:


> That's so disappointing from a match I expected a lot more out of. Liked their first match despite the interference, loved the 60 min. match and even their ROH match was good so I thought they'd kill it here. How was ACH/Hollister?


I dug it. The crowd wasn't getting too into ACH, and Hollister's heel has evolved into such a weird, distorted thing that it's hard to get into him one way or another. It was a nice 12-minute match that had a neat story weaved into it based on an earlier promo between Dan Lawrence and Colt Cabana, but the crowd was clearly burnt out from the match before intermission. They got loud toward the end, but nobody had the same thunder they had at the beginning. Sad, because I think a hotter crowd would have really tipped the scale on this one. I'd say around ***, nothing to go out of your way to see, but still a good watch.


----------



## seabs

*Super Smash Brothers vs Marko Estrada & Michael Style - Street Fight - NSPW Golden Opportunity IV 26.05.2012*
_Woah nelly this was good. It's a Street Fight and they fucking work it like a Street Fight should be worked without brawling away from the ring. Tons of hate between the two teams. They bump really hard for each other. I just pray for their sakes that the floor isn't anywhere near as hard as it looked. Estrada is really fucking good and this kinda made me think his Finlay match probably should have been even better. Chair attack which takes Stupified out absolutely ruled. Chair shots looked a bitch and the initial chair shot I swear I've never seen done like that before. Stupified sells the leg really well and amazingly doesn't ruin the short term selling later in the match. He gets taken out of the match and he basically stays out of the match except to die a little further and for the eventual finish. Weak points of the match are when Style and Uno go at it because Style isn't all that good but he's willing to bump as big as the other 3 and doesn't bring the match down. There's an awkward moment towards the end when the chairs try to ruin the match by not setting up right for Estrada and starts to look like it might fall apart but they get back on with it and get back to the brilliance. I think I know where that Elgin/Young match headed now judging by Last Chancery's post. Spots are big and they're great. They never do anything too big that it's just stupid and they save the two biggest spots till the end which was great. Splash off the ladder through a table looked as brutal I've seen that spot look. Style and Estrada's trashy whore has an awesome run in at the end which ends in her taking an awesome table bump off Uno. Finish itself feels like a really deserving climax to a match like this and it worked around Stupified's leg injury with him not having to do anything on the ground and just be able to launch himself off the top rope. Super Smash Bros should be renamed to Super Smash Brawlers because that's 3 out of 3 this year where they're hit it out of the park with gimmick matches/brawls. Seriously not that far behind their 2 big PWG gimmick matches this year._

*****1/4*

*Lance Storm vs Kevin Steen - NSPW Golden Opportunity IV 26.05.2012*
_They don't do much fancy but when you get all the basic stuff right and you've two workers on the level of these 2 then you don't need to do much fancy to have a really good match. Loved Lance schooling Steen on the match and Steen having to resort to cheap eye rakes to get control. Steen works heel and because NSPW crowds are great they play along with the wrestling game because that's the idea. They work a really good back and forth final few minutes too without being spotty or your turn my turn. This was really good._

****3/4*


----------



## seabs

*Davey Richards vs Zack Sabre Jr. - wXw Fans Appreciation Weekend Night 2*
_Didn't think it touched their match last year but I did like the majority of this. Mat wrestling is good for Indy standards and they do a neat job of working the match as equals throughout without ever being corny and looking like they were trading moves for the sake of trading moves. Minor Indy show so you get the more focused Davey with less bullshit. There's still some Davey bullshit though because it's still Davey Richards at the end of the day. The mannerisms are unbearable. Zack has some great selling faces and always looks like he's taking a beating better than most. Some of the strikes are a bit shitty mind. Appreciated the lack of shenanigans around the finish and Davey tapping straight out of an armbar rather than sitting in a fucking armbar for a minute._

****3/4+*


----------



## Bubz

I'll probably watch that. Haven't watched a Davey match in so long though. Wonder why he wrestle's better on smaller shows and doesn't realise it'd be so much better in ROH if he wrestled like that.


----------



## mk92071

La Sombra vs. Volador Jr. - 1/22/12 - ****1/4
Flippy wrestling and spotty shit at its finest. This had me flipping out the whole match with all of the amazing spots. Definitely not for a lot of people on here, but I was thoroughly entertained.


----------



## MTheBehemoth

Last Chancery said:


> Davey Richards and Kyle O'Reilly vs. Sami Callihan and BJ Whitmer from Friday's AAW show. This was one stiff as fuck tag match. At a little over 22 minutes, this match received a couple "this is awesome" chants and a standing ovation in the middle of it. Light on selling (of course) but it had a finish that came out of no where. I'll have to wait for the DVD, but maybe ****1/4? Maybe less, maybe more. Look out for this one.
> 
> And avoid, at all costs, Elgin vs. Silas for the AAW Heritage and Heavyweight Championships in an I Quit Match. Overbooked snoozer at over 41 minutes. Won't spoil the finish, or who won (you can do that on your own), but the only time the crowd was alive was after the final bell rang. Maybe a little at the beginning, but other than that, silence. Dead silence. What's more is Elgin botched so bad, it warranted multiple "boring" chants from the crowd. Loud chants. Just brutal. At one point in the match, Silas tied Elgin to the ropes using duct tape -- but Silas took a minute to open the tape roll, and it was painfully awkward to watch him bite at it and everything. Then, Elgin one-upped his botching ass by getting his hand stuck on the top rope after Silas taped him to it. First, Elgin tried severing the tape. That took a minute and didn't work. Crowd was getting antsy. Then he had the genius idea of trying to unscrew the top turnbuckle to free himself. Two more minutes, the turnbuckle doesn't unscrew. Crowd is furious. Boring chants start. Elgin starts tearing at the tape, pulling at it. Finally, he frees himself. It was like that time Mark Henry spent five minutes trying to get the cage door open but couldn't, only much, much worse. Felt bad for the guy, he got shat on hard. Wouldn't be surprised to see it on a Botchamania. *3/4 -- just painful.


I wanna watch this now


----------



## rafz

I'm out of time to see and post, but here are some of my latest ratings:

DDT 24/06
_Yuji Hino vs. Kota Ibushi_
******

WWE
_CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan - NO DQ Match - WWE Money In The Bank_
*****1/4*

_Alberto Del Rio vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Kane - WWE Smackdown 27/07_
******

_CM Punk vs. John Cena - WWE Night Of Champions_
*****1/2*

NOAH 22/07
_Takeshi Morishima vs. Go Shiozaki_
*****1/4*

NJPW 40th Anniversary Last Rebellion 29/07
_Low Ki vs. Kota Ibushi_
*****1/4*


----------



## seabs

* Big Van Walter vs Zack Sabre Jr. - wXw Live In Hamburg*
_What you'd want and expect from these two. Thought it was slightly better than their match last year. Both men have an extra years torture from Japan and thus hit even harder. Crowd brawling segment was great. More people need to do double and triple dives. Zack going through the bench the crowd were sitting on was a great spot. I would have been pissed if I was sitting there. Could have done with being less spotty at the end and longer for Walter's control segment but this was still great and showed why both of these are so great._

******


----------



## EmbassyForever

*NJPW Wrestling Dontaku 2012:*

*IWGP Junior Heavyweight Championship Match:*
Prince Devitt(c) vs. Low Ki: ****1/4
Awesome match, Devitt's selling was amazing, Low Ki's having a really great year so far IMO

*IWGP Heavyweight Championship Match:*
Kazuchika Okada(c) vs. Hirooki Goto: ****1/2
Holly balls amazing match, the last mins were amazing, surprised that this match isn't as hyped as Okada vs Tana/Naito.


----------



## Bubz

Okada/Goto was great imo, but not on the level of the 2nd Tanahashi or Naito matches. I thought Goto was really good in it.


----------



## Concrete

*16 Carat Tournament Day 3
2Face, Big Van Walter, Daisuke Sekimoto & Kim Ray vs. Axeman, Karsten Beck, Robert Dreissker & Yoshihito Sasaki:****1/4*
_This match is like an onion. This match is like a parfait. This match has layers. This has a lot to do with the elimination gimmick. Now I don't watch a lot of WXW but from what I can gather from this match is that Beck, Dreissker, and Walters are apart of a heel stable of somesort. Walter and Sekimoto are the key players being seen as the two most dominating wrestlers. BVW is a monster. He plays a monster better than maybe anyone I have seen on an independent level. Daisuke plays the foreign star. Axeman is the hometown favorite. Sasaki is also sort of a foreign star and also rivals with Sekimoto and shows to be ultra competitive. This match builds up eventually to the big 4 in Sekimot/BVW vs. Axeman/Sasaki which was the right decision. But before that there is 2Face doing a less crazy version of Sami Callihan. There is a point where Beck finds himself in the ring with BVW. He parades him around as a winner and then goes for a schoolboy. Bad decision. Then Beck tries tagging out. Axeman jumps down from the apron first, then Sasaki follows suit, then Sasaki and Axeman pull Dreissker off the apron since he was going to do it. Standing behind Beck is Sekimoto which is bad news bears for Beck. It was great. Then Dreissker found his way out of the match when Axeman and Sasaki hit him and forced him in completing their triple team and whipping him into BVW. Needless to say BVW wasn't okay with this. So when we get to the Big 4 that's when things go from good to great. Stiff as fuck. When Sasaki and Sekimoto are in the ring together they just beat the piss out of each other. It felt right out of BJW. The way Walters and Sekimoto(or The DREAM TEAM) worked over Axeman was magnificent. Throughout the match they had a proverbial pissing match between the two trying to prove who is better but they don't mind working with each other. They also wouldn't be opposed to killing each other in a match. Sasaki feels Axeman isn't pulling his weights at points even going as far as kicking Axeman right after he had broken up a pin attempt on Axeman. A very manly way of saying "Get you shit together". Did I mention this match was beautifully stiff? I don't know why this match happened but I won't complain since it was BALLIN'!!! _


----------



## rafz

NJPW 40th Anniversary 04/03
_Kazuchika Okada vs. Tetsuya Naito_
*****1/4*

NJPW NJPW 40th Anniversary 03/05
_Kazuchika Okada vs. Hirooki Goto_
*****1/4*

NJPW Dominion 16/06
_Kazuchika Okada vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi_
*****1/2*


----------



## dukenukem3do

rafz said:


> NJPW 40th Anniversary 04/03
> _Kazuchika Okada vs. Tetsuya Naito_
> *****1/4*
> 
> NJPW NJPW 40th Anniversary 03/05
> _Kazuchika Okada vs. Hirooki Goto_
> *****1/4*
> 
> NJPW Dominion 16/06
> _Kazuchika Okada vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi_
> *****1/2*


Question whats your thoughts on the TNA matches in 2012 like 
Alex Shelley vs Austin Aries at Against all odds 2012
Austin Aries vs Bully Ray at Sacrifice 2012
Daniels & Kaz vs AJ Styles & Kurt Angle at Slammiversary 2012

Just curious


----------



## EmbassyForever

ROH Rising Above 2012 - Adam Cole vs Davey Richards: ***3/4+
BJW 2012.03.26 - Sami Callihan vs Yoshihito Sasaki: ***3/4
EVOLVE 17: AR Fox vs Ricochet - ***1/2

*AJPW 2012/01/03 B Banquet 305 Review:*

*All Asia Tag Team Title:* Daisuke Sekimoto & Yuji Okabayashi (c) vs Akebono & Ryota Hama - ***3/4

*AJPW World Jr. Heavyweight Title:* Kenny Omega (c) vs Hiroshi Yamato - ****1/4+

*Main-Event : AJPW World Tag Team Title:* Dark Ozz & Dark Cuervo (c) vs Seiya Sanada & KAI - ***3/4


----------



## rafz

dukenukem3do said:


> Question whats your thoughts on the TNA matches in 2012 like
> Alex Shelley vs Austin Aries at Against all odds 2012
> Austin Aries vs Bully Ray at Sacrifice 2012
> Daniels & Kaz vs AJ Styles & Kurt Angle at Slammiversary 2012
> 
> Just curious


I have not seen these matches yet, but I'm making a list of some matches from CMLL, TNA and PWG and as soon I have some time I'll try to watch 

Since Seabs retirement of media section it's very hard to get some matches individually, especially if it's not on dailymotion.


----------



## Bubz

Watched that Ibushi/Omega match that people were talking about a bit ago, and yeah, it's ridiculous. I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy it, but there were parts that were downright terrible and parts that were really really good. It's the type of match that if you'd asked me in 09 it'd be my MOTY because of the ridiculous shit in it, but there are actually parts of very good storytelling in there somewhere, there was a pretty good control segment by Omega early on and it started very well but ultimately that led nowhere, and the selling of exhaustion and the affect of the match is genuinely great towards the end which is something that might separate this from a match like Davey/Eddie from FB. Still, no selling dragon suplexes and germans like nothing happened at all was so, so awful.


----------



## antoniomare007

Too lazy to write anything in depth about this matches but just go watch New Japan's iPPV. There's at least 5-6 matches worth a look, 2 of them are really fucking good and 1 is probably the Match of the Year.

*Kazuchika Okada vs Karl Anderson - New Japan "King Of Pro Wrestling"*

One of those matches were you think it's just "good" until the final minutes and then you are left with the feeling you just saw something pretty damn great. Okada really is a serious candidate for WOTY and Anderson keeps stepping up when he is giving the chance to shine.

*Shinsuke Nakamura vs Hirooki Goto - New Japan "King Of Pro Wrestling"*

The usual from this two. And that's a VERY good thing.

*Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki - New Japan "King Of Pro Wrestling"*

From what I'm hearing, it seems Meltzer is gonna give this the 5 snowflakes treatment, so it's gonna be a lot of discussion involving this match. All I know is that it was amazing, and it should be considered a REAL MOTYC. I guess it could of had a better final sequence, but truth is there was enough drama with all the submissions. Go see it and judge it by yourself. Al the very least you will be entertained.


----------



## Bubz

Tana/MiSu from WK was great and is in my top 10 this year, so if this is better than I can't wait.


----------



## EmbassyForever

*NJPW King of Pro Wrestling iPPV Review:*

*TOKYO DOME IWGP HEAVYWEIGHT CONTENDERSHIP MATCH; *
Kazuchika Okada (c) vs Karl Anderson - ****

*IWGP HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH; 
*Hiroshi Tanahashi (c) vs Minoru Suzuki - ****3/4

Low Ki vs Ibushi, Romero and Koslov vs KUSHIDA and Shelley & Goto vs Nakamura were all ***1/2 IMO.


----------



## seabs

*Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito - NJPW 03.08.2012*
_Isn't on the level of their IWGP Title match but you shouldn't be expecting that from a G1 Day 2 match. This is however probably better or at least on par with the best stuff last years G1 produced and far exceeded my expectations for the rematch. Okada's an absolute star in this and I'm not one of those guys who's been throwing WOTY at him after great match of his. Some of the other matches he was fortunate to have great Naito and great Tanahashi performances despite being really good in them himself. Here he stole the show for himself and looked like a legit BITW. Leg selling is beautiful from Okada. Almost as beautiful as the dropkicks he hits. What I liked most was how they worked the match given the result. Okada's losing but damn it he's gonna look like a million dollars looking, maintain his legitimacy and work a match where things don't go his way so he can still look great despite taking the fall. One of the best things about New Japan right at the top of always attracting hot crowds for their big shows these days is that you know the finishing stretch is nearly always gonna take the match up to another level and not make you wish it ended 5 minutes go. They understand that the real drama is through both guys trying to hit their finisher that nobody kicks out of and not if their finisher will get the 3. Rainmaker reversals are wonderful, as is Okada's determination to hit HIS move. Stardust Press missed spot was wonderful too. Last 5 minutes are full of unreal amounts of drama and the crowd is fucking molten for everything they do. _

*****1/4*


----------



## Bubz

Can't wait to watch that. Haven't watched anything from the G1 yet, a few nights were on Dailymotion but I couldn't be bothered at the time.


----------



## Chismo

Bubz said:


> Can't wait to watch that. *Haven't watched anything from the G1 yet*, a few nights were on Dailymotion but I couldn't be bothered at the time.


Me neither.  I don't want to randomly jump from Day 3 to Day 8 and back to Day 5, I will wait until every G1 hits internet.


----------



## seabs

*You'll probably never watch any of it then in that case. *

*Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Toru Yano - NJPW 07.08.2012*
_Can be stop being surprised when these 2 have great matches now. This is the 3rd one in the space of 12 months. Match is all about Yano and his shtick being wonderful. Yano needs more appreciation as a worker. _

******


----------



## smitlick

*New Japan 8/10/12*

Hirooki Goto vs Shinsuke Nakamura
****

Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki
****3/4

Gave ***1/2 to Okada/Anderson and ***1/4 to Ki/Ibushi


----------



## MF83

Tanahashi/Suzuki ****1/2
Laughter7 vs Makabe/Inoue ****1/4
Anderson/Okada ****
TenKoji vs KES ***3/4
IWGP Jr Matches ***3/4
Nakamura/Goto ***1/4
Yujiro/Naito & Opener ***


----------



## Bubz

*NJPW King Of Pro Wrestling 8/10/12*

*Kazuchika Okada vs Karl Anderson*
Great match. Okada continues his awesome streak and Anderson continues to impress me in a lot of areas. He really needs to make his offence lead somewhere though, thankfully this had Okada to add that to the match with all of his usual great neck work setting up for his finisher. Finishing run was bloody great and I was on the edge of my seat for most of it. ******

*Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki*
Yeah, this was really great. The start is all about Tanahashi keeping his distance from Suzuki, and when he finally gets Suzuki were he wants him he acts like a dick and pays for it. Suzuki’s in control for a really good amount of time here, and his arm work is great, as is Tana’s selling, keeping his arm by his side and trying to strike with his other arm. It’s all good stuff, and then Tana finds and opening and goes after the leg. At this point I thought it was going to suffer slightly because of his tendency to go after the leg and then completely forget about it in the finishing run but that’s not what happened. The leg work is really good for a while, but it’s not enough to fully stop Suzuki and his onslaught on the arm. Submission trading is so much fun, and when Tana has the Figure Four locked in the match really picks up. The visual of Suzuki screaming and shouting at Tanahashi while he’s in the hold is amazing. Suzuki eventually goes to his strikes to wear Tanahashi down but he keeps going back to the leg as a cut off point and it works really well thanks to Suzuki’s great selling. Really both guys selling is top notch throughout the whole match. I loved each guy going for their bigger stuff but, especially Suzuki, not being able to hit it so resorting back to the limb they’d been working on. Some really nice exchanges in the finishing run, all the while keeping the selling and the limb work in the story of the match. This is one of Suzuki’s best performances ever, and Tanahashi was great too and nowhere near as annoying as he sometimes can be. Not as good as Okada/Tanahashi II and definitely not as good as Okada/Naito imo, but it’s not that far off them and it’s better than their WK match. *****1/4+*


----------



## Ten410

NJPW King of Pro Wrestling 10-8-12


Forever Hooligans Vs. The Time Splitters 

Kota Ibushi Vs. Low Ki 

Karl Anderson Vs. Kazuchika Okada 

Minoru Suzuki Vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi 

I rank this show along with Extreme Rules as one of the best shows of the year.


----------



## Bruce L

If nobody either uploads KOPW in non-rar format or puts it up on Youtube or Dailymotion soon, I think I may explode. :sad:


----------



## Yeah1993

Bruce L said:


> If nobody either uploads KOPW in non-rar format or puts it up on Youtube or Dailymotion soon, I think I may explode. :sad:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeKCHbWudDE


----------



## seabs

*Kazuchika Okada vs Karl Anderson - NJPW 08.10.2012*
_Really good match. The improvement from Okada in just 10 months is incredible. Start of the year he looked like a great wrestler who could be lead to a great match with the right guy. Now he looks like a legit individual star in his own right. Thing I've been most impressed with him recently is how great of a worker in control of a match he is which is something that lets so many of the better wrestlers down. Just love how calm and collected he is when the match is going his way. Adored him just patiently waiting in the ring to see if Anderson can make the 20 count. If he doesn't then he's got the win, if not then cool, he's still got the match where he wants it. He's just as great when the tide changes too and he has to work from behind. Loved them doing the same sequence with the rail almost move for move but reversed. Sweet revenge spot and both the DDT and the Neckbreaker looked great. With New Japan finishing stretches you just know they wont let you down and almost always elevate the match to another tier. These are two of the better finishing guys so it's no surprise the last few minutes rocked with terrific drama, reversals and finisher teases. Anderson teasing the Rainmaker Lariat being reversed by Okada teasing the Ace Crusher was bossy as hell._

******

*Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW 08.10.2012*
_I fell pretty comfortable calling this a carear Suzuki performance by some margin. Incredible showing from Suzuki and Tanahashi's the most reliable guy going in the world for putting in a main event showing when it matters. Air guitar spot set the tone for the match absolutely perfectly. Really put Suzuki into game mode and from then the match was just a wonderful main event battle. Limb work was great by both men. Dragon screw on Suzuki to set up the injured leg angle looked nasty as hell and was a perfect spot to set the leg work up. Leg work itself was magnificent and a huge step up from the usual leg work in New Japan main events where it can sometimes just be filler in the middle. Suzuki does as good of a sell job as you'll see all year. Absolutely adored him hobbling on one leg trying to run the ropes and then just launching himself with a dropkick. Lengthy submission holds would normally take me out of the match for a breather but these weren't rest holds and did a super job of really working the hold and continuing to build the drama up to it's peak. Goes 30 minutes but it barely felt like 20 and it was so great they didn't need to rely on big near falls to get to 30. Mentioned this about Naito/Okada II and it's worth a mention again here, I just love how they build the drama at the end from who's gonna hit their finisher and not is the finisher gonna be enough to win the match. There's a group of like 5-8 matches now that are all really close at the top of my MOTYC list and I'm not confident calling any of them my MOTY right now. Don't think I'll go that high with this but it's right up there. Still sticking with Okada/Naito I but maybe that has a lot to do with it being the pace setter for the rest of the year. AWESOME._

*****1/2*


----------



## Bruce L

Yeah1993 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeKCHbWudDE


Aaand thank you!


----------



## MF83

Main event officially received WON ***** which if nothing else is a huge improvement for a match for others to try to emulate more than that ROH match.

The Gun Stun is not an Ace Crusher nor is it an RKO (almost identical because of its pouncing motion, but Anderson often attempts/sometimes hits it running) but its own upgraded maneuver. I'm not one of those move names matter kind of people but he should get credit for making arguably the best version of all the cutters even more unpredictable and more than well protected. Am I wrong?

I like the point about finishers. They've seemed to consciously switch back closer to more traditional strong style this year it seems, with that point along with more original match layouts, less formulaic matches, more mat wrestling and even shorter matches again. 

Probably gonna break from wrestling again until the next iPPV but damn, what a show.


----------



## Coffey

*Hiroshi Tanahashi (c) vs Minoru Suzuki; New Japan Pro-Wrestling IWGP Heavyweight Championship; King of Pro-Wrestling 10/8/12*

First off, you know a match is good when you're trying to nitpick it. I think the reason Dave Meltzer gushed over this match so much was because it had a very MMA feel to it, with a lot of the arm offense that Suzuki brought to the table. Tanahashi sold great, which I always think he does. The aforementioned arm work was great. I wasn't too high on a lot of the leg work that Tanahashi brought, although I did mark for the figure-four leglock spot. Also Suzuki works a lot better on offense than selling it. In my top five for the year, probably better than Richards/Elgin, but still firmly behind Tanahashi/Okada (Okada title win), Okada/Naito & Brock/Cena for me. Finished seemed abrupt & I wanted to see Suzuki go back to the Piledriver attempt. I also hated all of the standing slap spots.

Oh, I should mention the now infamous air guitar spot I guess: I don't see what the big deal was. It did seem out of character for Tanahashi & the crowd shit all over it, but it added some emotion to the match & fired up Suzuki, so I think it was fine.


----------



## rafz

NJPW King Of Pro Wrestling 08/10
_Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Minoru Suzuki_
*****3/4*

by the moment, easily my pick to MOTY, fucking awesome match.


----------



## Bruce L

From "King of Pro Wrestling":

Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Minoru Suzuki - ****½

Kazuchika Okada vs. Karl Anderson - ****¼

Kota Ibushi vs. Low Ki - ****

Rocky Romero & Alex Koslov vs. Alex Shelley & KUSHIDA - ***½


----------



## Caponex75

How is the Air guitar spot out of character for Tanahashi. Tanahashi is cocky and self adoring superstar....that spot was brilliant.


----------



## Bubz

Yeah I thought the air guitar spot was awesome, added a ton to the match.


----------



## dukenukem3do

PWG BOLA 2012

B-Boy vs Brian Cage ***
Kevin Steen vs Ricochet ****
Michael Elgin vs Davey Richards ****1/4


----------



## EmbassyForever

*ROH Glory By Honor XI:*
Davey Richards vs Jay Lethal - ****
Michael Elgin vs Kevin Steen - ****1/2
I've seen LOTS of people giving this full five stars, i'll watch this again


----------



## MTheBehemoth

NJPW 8/10

Okada/Anderson - ****


----------



## Chismo

Roode/Storm was epic. ****1/2


----------



## djmathers1207

Roode vs. Storm
AJ Styles/Kurt Angle vs. Chavo/Hernandez vs. Daniels/Kazarian


----------



## MTheBehemoth

BFG 2012
Roode/Storm - ****-****1/4 (can't decide)
Aries/Hardy - ****


----------



## darkclaudio

Bound For Glory:

-James Storm vs Bobby Rooode ****1/4
-Jeff Hardy vs Austin Aries ****
-AJ Styles/Kurt Angle vs. Chavo/Hernandez vs. Daniels/Kazarian ***3/4

G1 Climax
-Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito ****


----------



## Rickey

*TNA Bound for Glory 2012*
Storm vs. Roode
Aries vs. Hardy

Also enjoyed: Joe vs. Magnus and AJ/Angle vs. Chavo/Hernandez vs. Daniels/Kazarian, match got crazy and Kazarian took a nasty spill on the outside. Glad he wasn't hurt that bad, nice to see Daniels immediately check on him afterwards.


----------



## geraldinhio

JoeRulz said:


> Roode/Storm was epic. ****1/2


I second this. Really brought the hate and far exceeded how crazy I thought it would get with the tacks.Storm bled like crazy, haven't seen a blade job like that in ages. Thought King Mo would hinder the match but his facial expressions when Storm/Roode were brawling right beside him were pretty great and so glad he didn't hinder the finish. The finish was sick. Great match.

I'd go ****1/2 too. Storm really excels in these kind of matches.

I actually enjoyed a RVD match in 2012 too. I'm a massive Zema Ion mark so that could be the case. It wasn't anything outstanding but RVD was pretty good and they both just put on a fun opener. 

Haven't watched Aries/Hardy yet. Don't know do I want to.


----------



## Rickey

^Depends on how you feel about them I guess. 

Thought Aries looked really strong in the match for a guy smaller than Hardy. There were times where it looked like he was trying to kill him and it looked believable. The crowd was mostly behind Aries but then the match picked up and the crowd support shifted towards 50/50 and back again. 

Good match with both Hardy and Aries trying new things.


----------



## Chismo

Yeah, Aries/Hardy was a great match, IMO, it had a "big match feel", the crowd was hot (although the face/tweener dynamics was peculiar bcuz of the bad build), Austin's character work was immense, and he was using a plenty of psychology to get into Hardy's head. And Hardy was pretty good too, his offense looked believable for once. I think it's the first time since the Victory Road '12 match against Angle. 

Aries/Hardy: ****1/4


----------



## Ali Dia

Just saw Aries/Hardy. Hard to tell if the split crowd helped or hindered. Thought the match was really good. A lot of little psychology tid bits I liked, especially watching Hardy crutch Aries, dick move but Aries did it to him on Impact. Probably go ***3/4-****. May rematch it later.


----------



## blink_41sum_182

Spoiler: BOLA MOTYs



Ricochet/Steen - ****
Ricochet/Elgin - ****


----------



## seabs

*James Storm vs Bobby Roode - Street Fight - TNA Bound For Glory 2012*
_Good but not great and certainly not MOTYC Level. Wanted it to be more of a hate driven brawl than a spotty weapon based hardcore match but for that type of match it entertained me enough. Blood helped get over the hate a lot more than anything they actually did. Spots were good but nothing outstanding and they never got the flow of the match on enough to create the kind of buzz and atmosphere it deserved. Enjoyable enough but not must see or MOTYC Level._

*Austin Aries vs Jeff Hardy - TNA World Heavyweight Championship - TNA Bound For Glory 2012*
_Again, decent enough but not close to MOTYC Level. Didn't think it was a total Aries carry job in the sense that Hardy wasn't terrible and Aries wasn't overly outstanding to make a decent match great. Enjoyed edgier Hardy. Wasn't enough depth to the match to make me care of get me invested. Ton of booking perplexes too like why TNA turned Aries yet again so soon, why he's trying to be CM Punk and why he's dropped the title to Hardy so soon, along with the crowd being extremely pro Aries when the idea is for their biggest babyface star to win the title in the biggest main event of the year._

*Kevin Steen vs Michael Elgin - ROH World Championship - ROH Glory By Honor XI*
_BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORING. Don't even want to watse my time talking about this much. Typical ROH garbage. Do nothing of note besides moves until the finish when you kick out of everything. That reaction to the F5 kickout. Wow. Steen looks really bad physically right now. Moving really bad. Elgin was clueless when he wasn't doing spots yet again. At least Nigel was entertaining and almost managed to convince me to care about what was going on. Kelly does a very poor impression of enthusiasm. Over 30 minutes for this? Deary me._

*ACH vs AR Fox - 30 Minute Ironman Match - AIW Straight Outta Compton*
_Now this the shit you all need to be watching. Had this on my USB to watch for ages now and if I knew it was going to be this good I would have watched it months back. ACH is absolutely phenomenal. Someone desperately needs to regularly book him, Swann and Ricochet in matches together. Watched this straight after Steen/Elgin and THIS is how you work a 30 minute match where spots are the selling point. I say the selling point and not the entire focus of the match because with the booking and ACH being awesome they added a ton of depth to this on top of the spots. And the spots are really awesome. These days it's hard to be innovative period, yet alone work a 30 minute match full of innovation but these two pulled off a refreshing high flying match really well. Fox is still bland but he's got some cool spots and he was pretty good in this in the sense he did his stuff well and wasn't annoying. ACH is so much fun and adds so much to his game on top of his crazy spots. You know going in that the spots are gonna be crazy and you expect that but with this match you don't really expect them to work a really smartly structured Ironman match but they pull it off superbly well. Loved ACH countering Fox's springboard exploder thingy everytime after he got the first fall off it. The roll up sequences was probably my least favourite part of the match but in the context of the match it was neat of them to go for less draining rollup attempts over their big shit towards the end of the 30 minutes and they paid it off nicely with ACH getting a pin out of it. Adored ACH clinging to the ropes once he went ahead with only a few minutes left. Booking was great too. This was originally an Ironmatch between AR Fox and Uhaa Nation but Uhaa got injured and pulled out the week of the show so ACH replaced him. Therefore you just assume Fox will win and put ACH over as a strong loser but they swerve you really nicely and have ACH pull out the win and they work it really well to keep Fox as the more established guy in the hierachy but still have him lose clean in a match like this. More or less the same length as Steen/Elgin and literally felt half as long. Zero down time or filler which for a 30 minute match with two wrestlers like this you wouldn't expect. The stip probably just helps it pip past PAC/Devitt for my Juniors/Cruiserweight/etc MOTY. Got it just below the running pack for my actual MOTY that I've give the same rating too but it's either near or right at the top of the rest so definitely top 10 for the year._

*****1/2*


----------



## Bruce L

Seabs said:


> *ACH vs AR Fox - 30 Minute Ironman Match - AIW Straight Outta Compton*
> _Now this the shit you all need to be watching. Had this on my USB to watch for ages now and if I knew it was going to be this good I would have watched it months back. ACH is absolutely phenomenal. Someone desperately needs to regularly book him, Swann and Ricochet in matches together. Watched this straight after Steen/Elgin and THIS is how you work a 30 minute match where spots are the selling point. I say the selling point and not the entire focus of the match because with the booking and ACH being awesome they added a ton of depth to this on top of the spots. And the spots are really awesome. These days it's hard to be innovative period, yet alone work a 30 minute match full of innovation but these two pulled off a refreshing high flying match really well. Fox is still bland but he's got some cool spots and he was pretty good in this in the sense he did his stuff well and wasn't annoying. ACH is so much fun and adds so much to his game on top of his crazy spots. You know going in that the spots are gonna be crazy and you expect that but with this match you don't really expect them to work a really smartly structured Ironman match but they pull it off superbly well. Loved ACH countering Fox's springboard exploder thingy everytime after he got the first fall off it. The roll up sequences was probably my least favourite part of the match but in the context of the match it was neat of them to go for less draining rollup attempts over their big shit towards the end of the 30 minutes and they paid it off nicely with ACH getting a pin out of it. Adored ACH clinging to the ropes once he went ahead with only a few minutes left. Booking was great too. This was originally an Ironmatch between AR Fox and Uhaa Nation but Uhaa got injured and pulled out the week of the show so ACH replaced him. Therefore you just assume Fox will win and put ACH over as a strong loser but they swerve you really nicely and have ACH pull out the win and they work it really well to keep Fox as the more established guy in the hierachy but still have him lose clean in a match like this. More or less the same length as Steen/Elgin and literally felt half as long. Zero down time or filler which for a 30 minute match with two wrestlers like this you wouldn't expect. The stip probably just helps it pip past PAC/Devitt for my Juniors/Cruiserweight/etc MOTY. Got it just below the running pack for my actual MOTY that I've give the same rating too but it's either near or right at the top of the rest so definitely top 10 for the year._
> 
> *****1/2*


Any chance you could give us a link, please? Been wanting to check out some ACH for a while.


----------



## Rickey

Seabs, I think for more a hate filled brawl rather than a full of weapons match you might enjoy their Lockdown cage match more. It was bloody too but they pretty much brawled throughout the entire match. Only thing I hated about the match/show was the fact that the crowd was mostly dead except during Hardy/Angle earlier in the night.


----------



## Violent By Design

I agree with Seabs in regards to Roode vs Storm. Didn't feel like a real blood feud, just a match with no DQ. The blood job is about the only thing and when they hit each other with those trash can lids are about the only things that really gave the impression they were in a fight.


----------



## Nervosa

Tanahashi vs. Suzuki
****3/4

Ok, I'm starting to get Tanahashi now. I still don't love what he does (yet) but I am starting to realize how incredible he is at it. 

I didn't really mind the air guitar spot, in of itself. Tanahashi was already a heel because I hate him so much. I will say this: if he is supposed to be a babyface (and lets face it, hes booked that way) then this spot is a VERY strange choice. Nevertheless I thought it sparked the hate really well.

The arm work was really great and Suzuki using it to get the sleeper utilized late was awesome. Tanahashi's legwork, while overdone, was great here in large part to the selling. Suzuki looked like he was in agony. The Figure Four MADE this match. Every single thing that happened in that hold was awesome. Suzuki stumbling going into the ropes, but then baiting Tanahashi in for the dropkick was a really exciting hope spot. Tanahashi appearing to pass out was also very very cool.

I also love that there isn't a single pinfall attempt until the finish. It just makes the importance of the submissions that much better.

One problem that one could argue is that Suzuki throws a LOT of kicks after his leg is worked over. I will say, however, that the RIGHT leg gets worked over, and since the right leg isn't the standing leg for his kicks, I don't mind it being the swinging leg. This could bother some people, but its not a huge deal to me. 

There is a little bit of execution sloppiness, which takes it down a bit, but I really love the story and the action. Its not as good as Okada vs. Naito, but its the next best thing. NJPW is amazing right now, and I can't wait to see the future.


----------



## Violent By Design

I don't see how it is a strange choice, Tanashi's gimmick is that he's some air guitar cocky rockstar. The Japanese audience just didn't take kind to him making light of the opponent, but the actual maneuver in itself isn't strange in the least bit. If it was an American audience or a less conservative audience, it probably would have been cheered.

Seemed to me that it was just part of his light hearted personality.


----------



## Coffey

Seabs said:


> *Kevin Steen vs Michael Elgin - ROH World Championship - ROH Glory By Honor XI*
> Typical ROH garbage. Do nothing of note besides moves until the finish when you kick out of everything.


Exactly what I said & some ROH fanboy got all pissy & tried to say it was only because I "read a review & didn't actually watch the show." Nope, I watched the show, beginning to end because Meltzer hyped it up. So I thought it would be different from the standard ROH fare. It wasn't. Same crap. Sorry, but they're shitting all over what wrestling means to me in ROH. If they think "good" wrestling just means a lot of moves & no-selling then apparently they didn't learn anything from those fucking tapes they watched. I thought getting Richards out of the main might help, but it hasn't. Now Steen is just doing the same nonsense only doing it while looking nine months pregnant.


----------



## Bubz

Tana/MiSu is the match this year that really warrants a re-watch for me. There was so much greatness in it. Agree with Nervosa that it was the figure four that really elevated the match to that amazing scale. It was literally incredible and the best spot this year imo. Suzuki shouting and screaming at Tanahashi was just insane to watch.

Something people haven't talked about yet that I thought was an awesome little touch was how MiSu was completely all about business, and so he come out on his own without his cronies that usually accompany him to the ring, and when he enters the ring, he tells the guy that usually holds the ring ropes open for him (and he usually kicks) to get down before he gets in the ring. This is a guy that wants absolutely no help and has left his heel schtick behind because he wants to prove to himself he can do it on his own. The air guitar spot just added more fuel to that fire. MiSu's performance was insane in that match.

I watched Steen/Elgin too, and I thought it started with a lot of potential with Elgin out-powering Steen and Steen starting to control the match. I thought it was great when Steen would keep cutting Elgin off, but nope, that didn't happen for more than 5 minutes before it went into trading shit mode. I did genuinely enjoy the final 5 minutes or so though, and probably only because of Nigel being a motherfucking GOD! seriously, god bless that man. Fucking awesome human being he is. I love him. I want to marry him. He managed to make what would have other wise been a legit annoying shitfest enjoyable. I mean, imagine this match with Prazak commentating, it would be so much less than what it was. Did I say I love Nigel? Because I do. But overall (apart from the first 10 minutes) the match was pretty much nothing more than two guys doing moves to eachother for 20 minutes. Seriously, compare this to Tana/MiSu (or NJPW in general) and the way they BUILD to the finishers so they MEAN something. It should be so fucking simple.


----------



## seabs

Bruce L said:


> Any chance you could give us a link, please? Been wanting to check out some ACH for a while.


*Yeah. If I don't post it this week then remind me on.*


Rickey said:


> Seabs, I think for more a hate filled brawl rather than a full of weapons match you might enjoy their Lockdown cage match more. It was bloody too but they pretty much brawled throughout the entire match. Only thing I hated about the match/show was the fact that the crowd was mostly dead except during Hardy/Angle earlier in the night.


*The Lockdown match bored me to tears. Wasn't bad but the crowd killed it. Probably would only have been good with a better crowd because Roode's still boring in control of a match and the finish was terrible.*

*TAKA Michinoku vs MENs Teioh - K-DOJO 08.07.2012*
_So enjoyable. Really simple and stripped back wrestling but with these two working a match like that, that's all they need to make it work. Loved Teioh blocking TAKA's eye poke and going on to destroy the fingers for TAKA having the audacity to poke him in the eye. Some seriously great near fall attempts of the series of roll ups and the finish itself pays off the entire story of the match so well. Always a good sign when you're praying the match goes longer than you expect it to. This is only 12 minutes so there's reason to neglect it._

******

*Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yuji Hino - K-DOJO 08.07.2012*
_Exactly what you want from these beasts and also with an added bonus spice on top. Sekimoto was surprisingly great working over Hino and working the story of the match with him beating some respect into Hino and Hino trying to make a name for himself against the veteran ace. Hino takes a super beating too and his selling is brilliant. Hino's been the discovery of 2012 so far for me and this made me love him even more because you see working the other end of a match and he ruled just as much. Oh and they hit each other HARD. There's a rematch that happened a few weeks ago that sounds MANLY just by the finish that better air and Hino's the new #1 contender and Sekimoto is still the champion so there should be another match between them. Yay!_

******


----------



## MF83

Definitely gonna need to rewatch the match with a few new observations in mind. However, I know Tanahashi performed the cobra stretch air guitar taunt before the Suzuki match, for heel heat, as he has been a tweener since regaining the belt. I still don't understand the controversy surrounding it.


----------



## Nervosa

I must have missed the tweener-ness of Tanahashi recently. If thats the case, then MF83 is right: no controversy here. I was just under the impression that he was still a complete, unadulterated babyface.


----------



## Lane

BEYOND Wrestling: Swamp Sessions
Drew Gulak vs Biff Busick
****
Great match done in a mat technician style with some deadly chops thrown in. Very fun and way better than I expected.


----------



## Yeah1993

Seabs said:


> *TAKA Michinoku vs MENs Teioh - K-DOJO 08.07.2012*
> _So enjoyable. Really simple and stripped back wrestling but with these two working a match like that, that's all they need to make it work. Loved Teioh blocking TAKA's eye poke and going on to destroy the fingers for TAKA having the audacity to poke him in the eye. Some seriously great near fall attempts of the series of roll ups and the finish itself pays off the entire story of the match so well. Always a good sign when you're praying the match goes longer than you expect it to. This is only 12 minutes so there's reason to neglect it._
> 
> ******


Well fuck my face if anyone's going to make me want to watch 2012 wrestling it's TAKA Michinoku. Seabs do have a link for that or did you buy the DVD?


----------



## Martyn

Akira Tozawa, Kevin Steen & Super Dragon vs. El Generico, PAC & Masato Yoshino @ PWG Kurt Russelreunion 2012 - I'm not into US indy anymore, but this match was amazing. It has everything - good crowd, big names, comedy stuff, epic moves and awesome ending. One of the best 6 man tags in years. ***** *1/4.


----------



## seabs

*Wouldn't say Tanahashi's working as a heel. He's still the top babyface guy in the company and he's still being booked against heels on the big shows - Okada/Tanaka/Suzuki/Yujiro. He's just edgier. I think the heel stuff is the more the crowd reacting differently to him and he's smart enough to adapt his game to how they react to him. *



Yeah1993 said:


> Well fuck my face if anyone's going to make me want to watch 2012 wrestling it's TAKA Michinoku. Seabs do have a link for that or did you buy the DVD?


*Ripped the show earlier, I'll upload it later. TAKA's been of my favourite wrestlers this year actually. Him and Taichi are super fun as a goofy duo and I was hoping this would show him still excelling at non goofy stuff and it most certainly did. Really hope more K-DOJO stuff surfaces because he's been working some great looking 20th Anniversary matches.

Have you seen the TAKA/Taichi vs Liger/TM4 match from June 16th? It fucking rules and you'll almost surely like it for Liger/TAKA/Taichi. Him and Taichi have starting doing the best shtick ever in tags with Archer where they stand on the apron and fall down like an earthquake hit when Archer does a bodyslam. There was a SuzukiGun tag I was watching yesterday and Archer did like 3 of them in a row and everytime they got up they back up they fell back down again after the slam. It's the best.*


----------



## Rickey

Seabs said:


> *The Lockdown match bored me to tears. Wasn't bad but the crowd killed it. Probably would only have been good with a better crowd because Roode's still boring in control of a match and the finish was terrible.*


I agree about the crowd, wish they were hype like BFG and Slammiversary this year. I enjoy Roode's heel work(control) though sometime it does go on pretty long. The ending felt like something JBL would do during his title run. Then again, I loved Roode's run in general. Great heel title run. He always found a way to sneak away with the title and he made title seem so important. Even going up to the match on impact with AJ, longest reigning champion vs. soon to be longest reigning champion.
---
Gotta remember to check out some more stuff from this thread. Just don't feel like watching long matches.


----------



## Bruce L

Yeah; Tanahashi seems to be a complete, unadulterated babyface in the sense that John Cena is a complete, unadulterated babyface. He's booked as one, and it's his default mode, but he receives a Cena-esque mixed reaction. Fortunately, unlike Cena, he's a savvy enough performer and (far more importantly) allowed by the company to play to that reaction and play the cocky tweener when called for.


----------



## Bubz

If WWE allowed Cena to act up to certain crowds like Tanahashi does it'd be so awesome.


----------



## ADC

Davey Richards vs. Jack Gallagher, Futureshock Wrestling, Manchester, August.


----------



## Yeah1993

Seabs said:


> *Wouldn't say Tanahashi's working as a heel. He's still the top babyface guy in the company and he's still being booked against heels on the big shows - Okada/Tanaka/Suzuki/Yujiro. He's just edgier. I think the heel stuff is the more the crowd reacting differently to him and he's smart enough to adapt his game to how they react to him. *
> 
> 
> *Ripped the show earlier, I'll upload it later. TAKA's been of my favourite wrestlers this year actually. Him and Taichi are super fun as a goofy duo and I was hoping this would show him still excelling at non goofy stuff and it most certainly did. Really hope more K-DOJO stuff surfaces because he's been working some great looking 20th Anniversary matches.
> 
> Have you seen the TAKA/Taichi vs Liger/TM4 match from June 16th? It fucking rules and you'll almost surely like it for Liger/TAKA/Taichi. Him and Taichi have starting doing the best shtick ever in tags with Archer where they stand on the apron and fall down like an earthquake hit when Archer does a bodyslam. There was a SuzukiGun tag I was watching yesterday and Archer did like 3 of them in a row and everytime they got up they back up they fell back down again after the slam. It's the best.*


I've watched next to nothing from 2012, but TAKA's one of my favourite wrestlers ever and I'll watch anything involving him in it.


----------



## blink_41sum_182

Kevin Steen vs Michael Elgin - **** 1/4

Elgin deserved to win though. I love Steen but I'm not sure why Steen is still the champ. What else does Elgin have to do?


----------



## geraldinhio

blink_41sum_182 said:


> Kevin Steen vs Michael Elgin - **** 1/4
> 
> Elgin deserved to win though. I love Steen but I'm not sure why Steen is still the champ. What else does Elgin have to do?


Feud with Roderick Strong of course, hence the long build of dissension in the HOT. Even a mini feud going for the TV title would be entertaining. I think Elgin winning the belt will be similar to Tyler Blacks. A too little too late situation. Oh, the fans will turn on him of course too.

Anyway hearing very mixed reviews from this match but I'll check it out as soon as I can. Finished watching BFG and was entertained somewhat. Hardy/Aries far out exceeded my expectations, a very good Hardy match if that means anything.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Well, these matches aren't on the MOTYC level, but i really enjoyeed Kingston vs Miz from Main Event and Barrett vs Sheamus (Raw, their match in SD was good too). Ziggler and Show vs Team Hell No was another good one.

EDIT: Just watched Sheamus vs Punk, another really good TV match.


----------



## djmathers1207

NJPW King Of Pro Wrestling

Kazuchika Okada vs. Karl Anderson ****
Low-Ki vs. Kota Ibushi ****1/2- ****1/4 [their match at Last Rebellion was a little better]

Glory By Honor XI

Jay Lethal vs. Davey Richards **** 1/4
Adam Cole vs. Eddie Edwards ***3/4-****
Kevin Steen vs. Michael Elgin ****1/4-****3/4 [second best ROH match this year behind Davey/Elgin]

Bound For Glory

James Storm vs. Bobby Roode ****1/4
Austin Aries vs. Jeff Hardy ****1/2-****1/4
3-Way Tag [not quite sure yet, so i'll give it a rewatch]


----------



## ywall2breakerj

Yeah1993 said:


> I've watched next to nothing from 2012, but TAKA's one of my favourite wrestlers ever and I'll watch anything involving him in it.


There's like 2000 Suzuki-gun tags. Watch them all. SO. FUN.


----------



## seabs

*HARASHIMA vs Shuji Ishikawa - DDT 22.07.2012*
_Well this kinda jumped out of nowhere as being seriously good for something I wasn't expecting anything from and only watched because I was watching the whole show. This was more like what I wanted Storm/Roode to be. It's still got plenty of weapon spots but they do a great job of conveying a sense of hate for each other and willingness to hurt themselves to hurt the other. Match really comes alive when Ishikawa busts HARASHIMA open with some chair shots that would probably give Bryan and Dave a heart attack fatal enough for the both of them. Leads to HARASHIMA just going out for Ishikawa's blood and when HARASHIMA's on he's really fucking good. Some of the spots are way too co-operative but on the whole they did a great job of getting the hate over and still being able to do cool spots without it feeling too much like hardcore spots with blood. Stack of chairs bump was mental. Wish it would have been nearer the end but given the finish it didn't bother me too much. Finish itself is super too. _

*****+*

*Kota Ibushi & Kenny Omega vs Danshoku Dino & YOSHIHIKO - DDT 22.07.2012*
_^ is all you need to know._


----------



## dukenukem3do

Devon vs Sting-Impact Wrestling 10/18/12 ****1/2


----------



## Russian Hooligan

Hiroshi Yamato vs Kenny Omega - AJPW 07.10.2012 ****


----------



## Matt_Yoda

Austin Aries vs. Jeff Hardy (Bound for Glory 2012)- ***3/4 - ****
Bobby Roode vs. James Storm (Bound for Glory 2012) - ****1/4
Kevin Steen vs. Michael Elgin (Glory by Honor XI: An Unbreakable Hope) - ****1/4+
Dr. Wagner Jr. vs. Mascara Ano 2000, Jr. (TripleMania XX) - ****1/4
Prince Devitt vs. Dragon Rojo, Jr. (CMLL) - ***3/4


----------



## Cleavage

*ROH Glory by Honor XI - Kevin Steen vs. Michael Elgin*

I've heard good things about this match, that it was as good as Richards/Elgin at Showdown show. Michael Elgin got new theme music and Roderick Strong is ringside still Trollin'. I'm sorry but this match is not for me, It was that typical 2 Powerhouses ROH match. All they did was do a bunch of big moves just for pops and wait till the finish. I am also getting really sick of these kick outs after big moves and kicking out of finishers in hope that makes the match more EPIC in the fans mind. C'MON did Elgin really need to do 6 or 7 powerbombs & 4 Bucklebombs and 1 ringpost bomb. ***1/2 at best. The best thing about this match was Steen saying "He's got till 5"


----------



## Bryan D.

James Storm vs Bobby Roode - ****1/2


----------



## seabs

*Updated MOTYC Lists:*


> *****
> 
> 
> ****3/4
> 
> 
> ****1/2
> Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW 04.03.2012
> Yuji Nagata vs Suwama - AJPW 05.05.2012
> Yuji Hino vs Kota Ibushi - KO-D Openweight Championship - DDT 24.06.2012
> Super Smash Brothers vs Young Bucks - No DQ - PWG Death To All But Metal
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW 16.06.2012
> Super Smash Brothers vs Young Bucks vs Future Shock - Ladder Match - PWG World Tag Team Championships - PWG Threemendous 3
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW 08.10.2012
> ACH vs AR Fox - 30 Minute Ironman Match - AIW Straight Outta Compton
> 
> ****1/4
> Shinsuke Nakamura & Toru Yano vs Go Shiozaki & Naomichi Marufuji - NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI
> Suwama vs Daisuke Sekimoto - AJPW 02.01.2012
> Jun Akiyama & Kenta Kobashi vs Kensuke Sasaki & Mitsuhiro Kitayima - Diamond Ring 11.02.2012
> Kenny Omega vs Hiroshi Yamato - AJPW World Jr. Heavyweight Championship - AJPW 03.01.2012
> Yuji Nagata & Wataru Inoue vs Masayuki Kono & Minoru - AJPW 03.02.2012
> Daisuke Sekimoto, Yuji Okabayashi & Kazuki Hashimoto vs Akebono, Ryuto Hama & Yasufumi Nakanoue - BJW 02.02.2012
> Ricky Marvin vs Tommy End - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 2
> Big Van Walter vs Daisuke Sekimoto - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 2
> Finlay vs Johnny Kidd - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 3
> Big Van Walter, Daisuke Sekimoto, 2-Face & Kim Ray vs Axeman, Yoshihito Sasaki, Karsten Beck & Robert Dreissker - 8 Man Elimination Tag - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 3
> Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin - ROH World Championship - ROH Showdown In The Sun Night 2
> Yoshihito Sasaki vs Daisuke Sekimoto - BJW 26.03.2012
> Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - 2/3 Falls - World Heavyweight Championship - Extreme Rules 2012
> John Cena vs Brock Lesnar - Extreme Rules Match - Extreme Rules 2012
> Shinjiro Otani & Daichi Hashimoto vs Takeshi Morishima & Katsuhiko Nakajima - NOAH 29.04.2012
> Dean Allmark & James Mason vs Rampage Brown & Robbie Dynamite - ASW:UK 17.03.2012
> Dean Allmark vs Nathan Cruz - ASW:UK 24.03.2012
> Sami Callihan vs El Generico - EVOLVE 13
> CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan - WWE Championship - Over The Limit 2012
> Prince Devitt vs PAC - NJPW 06.06.2012
> Dean Allmark vs Johnny Storm - ASW:UK 01.06.2012
> Max Angelus vs Nick Riley vs Robbie X - SWE 4everevolution
> Hirooki Goto vs Tomohiro Ishii - NJPW 20.05.2012
> Kevin Steen vs Brian Cage-Taylor - PWG Death To All But Metal
> El Generico vs Ricochet - PWG Death To All But Metal
> William Regal vs Dean Ambrose - FCW 15.07.2012
> Jushin Liger & Tiger Mask IV vs TAKA Michinoku & Taichi - IWGP Jr. Heavyweight Championships - NJPW 16.06.2012
> Super Smash Brothers vs Marko Estrada & Michael Style - Street Fight - NSPW Golden Opportunity IV 26.05.2012
> Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito - NJPW 03.08.2012
> 
> ****
> Bad Intentions vs Satoshi Kojima & Hiroyoshi Tenzan - IWGP Heavyweight Tag Team Championships - NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI
> Kohei Sato vs Daisuke Sekimoto - ZERO-1 World Heavyweight Championship - ZERO-1 01.01.2012
> Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs Akebono & Ryuto Hama - BJW 02.01.2012
> Daisuke Sekimoto & Yuji Okabayashi vs Akebono & Ryuto Hama - All Asia Tag Team Championships - AJPW 03.01.2012
> SHINGO, YAMATO, Jimmy Susumu, Jimmy KAGETORA & Dragon Kid vs CIMA, Akira Tozawa, BxB Hulk, Genki Horiguchi & Ryo Saito - Dragon Gate 19.01.2012
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada - NJPW 12.02.2012
> Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yuji Okabayashi - BJW 26.02.2012
> Jerry Lawler, Derrick King & Frankie Tucker vs Pokerface & LA Hustlers - MCW 03.03.2012
> Daisuke Sekimoto & Freddy Stahl vs Big Van Walter & Robert Dreissker - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 1
> CM Punk vs Chris Jericho - WWE Championship - WrestleMania 28
> CM Punk vs Chris Jericho - Chicago Street Fight - WWE Championship - Extreme Rules 2012
> Shinjiro Otani vs Daichi Hashimoto - ZERO-1 25.03.2012
> Austin Aries vs Alex Shelley - TNA Against All Odds 2012
> Go Shiozaki & Tamon Honda vs Kensuke Sasaki & Kento Miyahara - NOAH 29.04.2012
> Yuji Nagata vs Daisuke Sekimoto - AJPW 29.04.2012
> Yuji Okabayashi vs Manabu Soya - AJPW 04.05.2012
> Vordell Walker vs Jon Davis - PWX 28.04.2012
> Prince Devitt vs Low Ki - IWGP Jr. Heavyweight Championship - NJPW 03.05.2012
> Togi Makabe & Yuji Nagata vs Minoru Suzuki & Yoshihiro Takayama - NJPW 03.05.2012
> Bobby Roode vs AJ Styles - TNA World Championship - TNA iMPACT 24.05.2012
> Low Ki vs Brian Kendrick - NJPW 06.06.2012
> AJ Styles & Kurt Angle vs Daniels & Kazarian - TNA Slammiversary X
> James Mason vs Zebra Kid - ASW:UK 01.06.2012
> Finlay vs Danny Boy Collins - ASW:UK 01.06.2012
> Sheamus vs Dolph Ziggler - World Heavyweight Championship - No Way Out 2012
> Luke Gallows vs Charlie Dreamer - OSF 07.04.2012
> Daisuke Sekimoto & Yuji Okabayashi vs Yoshihito Sasaki & Shinya Ishikawa - BJW 25.05.2012
> Damien Wayne vs Chris Escobar - VCW 02.06.2012
> Finlay vs Martin Kirby - SWE 4everevolution
> Kevin Steen vs Davey Richards - ROH World Championship - ROH HOSTAGE CRISIS 2012
> Yoshihito Sasaki vs Yuji Okabayashi - BJW 21.06.2012
> El Generico vs Sara Del Rey - Chikara Hot Off The Griddle
> AJ Styles vs Christopher Daniels - Last Man Standing - TNA Destination X 2012
> Jun Akiyama, Go Shiozaki & Atsushi Aoki vs Suwama, Kaz Hayashi & Shuji Kondo - NOAH 03.06.2012
> Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan - Street Fight - Raw 30.08.2012
> Kota Ibushi, Kenny Omega & Daisuke Sasaki vs Prince Devitt, KUSHIDA & BUSHI - NJPW 16.06.2012
> Toru Yano & Takashi Iizuka vs Satoshi Kojima & Hiroyoshi Tenzan - IWGP Tag Team Championships - NJPW 16.06.2012
> Shinsuke Nakamura & Masato Tanaka vs Tetsuya Naito & Hirooki Goto - NJPW 16.06.2012
> John Cena vs Alberto Del Rio - Falls Count Anywhere - Raw 03.09.2012
> Kevin Steen vs Willie Mack - PWG World Championship - PWG Threemendous 3
> CM Punk vs John Cena - WWE Championship - Night Of Champions 2012
> Damian Steele & Giovanni vs Pee Wee & Johnny Jack Spade - NSPW Kickoff 2012
> Big Van Walter vs Zack Sabre Jr. - wXw Live In Hamburg
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Toru Yano - NJPW 07.08.2012
> Kazuchika Okada vs Karl Anderson - NJPW 08.10.2012
> TAKA Michinoku vs MENs Teioh - K-DOJO 08.07.2012
> Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yuji Hino - K-DOJO 08.07.2012
> HARASHIMA vs Shuji Ishikawa - DDT 22.07.2012
> 
> Misc.
> Daniel Bryan vs Big Show - No DQ Match - World Heavyweight Championship - Smackdown 13.01.2012
> PAC vs Rich Swann vs Brodie Lee vs Sami Callihan - 2CW 21.01.2012
> Bad Intentions & KUSHIDA vs Satoshi Kojima, Hiroyoshi Tenzan & Jushin Liger - NJPW 29.01.2012
> Juventud Guerrera vs Zema Ion - X Project 19.02.2012
> Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk - Smackdown 21.02.2012
> Zack Sabre Jr. vs Yoshihito Sasaki - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 2
> Daisuke Sekimoto & Kazuki Hashimoto vs Kohei Sato & Daichi Hashimoto - ZERO-1 24.04.2012
> Takao Omori, Manabu Soya & Masanobu Fuchi vs Seiya Sanada, KAI & Hiroshi Yamato - AJPW 07.05.2011
> Daisuke Sekimoto, Yuji Okabayashi & Kazuki Hashimoto vs Kaz Hayashi, Shuji Kondo & Ryuto Hama - AJPW 07.05.2011
> Steve Corino vs Sam Shaw - PWX 28.01.2012
> Rowdy Ricky Knight & Jimmy Ocean vs Robbie Brookside & Frankie Sloan - ASW:UK 01.06.2012





> Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW 04.03.2012
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW 08.10.2012
> Super Smash Brothers vs Young Bucks vs Future Shock - Ladder Match - PWG World Tag Team Championships - PWG Threemendous 3
> Yuji Hino vs Kota Ibushi - KO-D Openweight Championship - DDT 24.06.2012
> Yuji Nagata vs Suwama - AJPW 05.05.2012
> ACH vs AR Fox - 30 Minute Ironman Match - AIW Straight Outta Compton
> Super Smash Brothers vs Young Bucks - No DQ - PWG Death To All But Metal
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW 16.06.2012
> Kenny Omega vs Hiroshi Yamato - AJPW World Jr. Heavyweight Championship - AJPW 03.01.2012
> Suwama vs Daisuke Sekimoto - AJPW 02.01.2012
> Big Van Walter, Daisuke Sekimoto, 2-Face & Kim Ray vs Axeman, Yoshihito Sasaki, Karsten Beck & Robert Dreissker - 8 Man Elimination Tag - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 3
> Sami Callihan vs El Generico - EVOLVE 13
> Hirooki Goto vs Tomohiro Ishii - NJPW 20.05.2012
> Daisuke Sekimoto, Yuji Okabayashi & Kazuki Hashimoto vs Akebono, Ryuto Hama & Yasufumi Nakanoue - BJW 02.02.2012
> Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito - NJPW 03.08.2012
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI
> Yuji Nagata & Wataru Inoue vs Masayuki Kono & Minoru - AJPW 03.02.2012
> Prince Devitt vs PAC - NJPW 06.06.2012
> Yoshihito Sasaki vs Daisuke Sekimoto - BJW 26.03.2012
> John Cena vs Brock Lesnar - Extreme Rules Match - Extreme Rules 2012
> Super Smash Brothers vs Marko Estrada & Michael Style - Street Fight - NSPW Golden Opportunity IV 26.05.2012
> CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan - WWE Championship - Over The Limit 2012
> Jushin Liger & Tiger Mask IV vs TAKA Michinoku & Taichi - IWGP Jr. Heavyweight Championships - NJPW 16.06.2012
> Big Van Walter vs Daisuke Sekimoto - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 2
> Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - 2/3 Falls - World Heavyweight Championship - Extreme Rules 2012
> William Regal vs Dean Ambrose - FCW 15.07.2012
> Luke Gallows vs Charlie Dreamer - OSF 07.04.2012
> Jerry Lawler, Derrick King & Frankie Tucker vs Pokerface & LA Hustlers - MCW 03.03.2012
> Max Angelus vs Nick Riley vs Robbie X - SWE 4everevolution
> Finlay vs Johnny Kidd - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 3
> Dean Allmark vs Nathan Cruz - ASW:UK 24.03.2012
> Bobby Roode vs AJ Styles - TNA World Championship - TNA iMPACT 24.05.2012
> Shinjiro Otani & Daichi Hashimoto vs Takeshi Morishima & Katsuhiko Nakajima - NOAH 29.04.2012
> Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin - ROH World Championship - ROH Showdown In The Sun Night 2
> El Generico vs Ricochet - PWG Death To All But Metal
> Kevin Steen vs Brian Cage-Taylor - PWG Death To All But Metal
> Shinsuke Nakamura & Toru Yano vs Go Shiozaki & Naomichi Marufuji - NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI
> AJ Styles & Kurt Angle vs Daniels & Kazarian - TNA Slammiversary X
> Finlay vs Martin Kirby - SWE 4everevolution
> Damien Wayne vs Chris Escobar - VCW 02.06.2012
> Dean Allmark & James Mason vs Rampage Brown & Robbie Dynamite - ASW:UK 17.03.2012
> Ricky Marvin vs Tommy End - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 2
> Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yuji Okabayashi - BJW 26.02.2012
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada - NJPW 12.02.2012
> Austin Aries vs Alex Shelley - TNA Against All Odds 2012
> Damian Steele & Giovanni vs Pee Wee & Johnny Jack Spade - NSPW Kickoff 2012


----------



## Lane

Kincaid vs Sigmon
TCW Battle of Bryant
10/20/12
***1/2-****

Awesome 2 out of 3 falls match with some crazy bumps buy both guys. Awesome storytelling. Kincaid had Sigmon between the middle and top rope with his upper chest on the outside and gave him a double stomp off the top rope, Sigmon later returned the favor by giving Kincaid a german suplex with both of them on the apron. Screwjob finish where Kincaids manager distracted the ref and Kincaid put the belt over his waist and Sigmon flew off the top with a headbut to the belt that hardwayd him. Didnt take away from the match and hope that it advances the feud.


----------



## KingKicks

*TNA Bound For Glory*

James Storm vs. Bobby Roode (Street Fight) ******
_Pretty much the bloody grudge match I had hoped for ever since Beer Money broke up. Both of the bumps Roode takes on the tacks are actually pretty shocking, especially the second one has he had to sell being KO'd while landing on the tacks. Props._

Austin Aries vs. Jeff Hardy (TNA World Title) *****-****¼*
_I don't know if it was because of the atmosphere but I seriously enjoyed this. Both guys put in a hell of an effort and I'm glad there wasn't overkill at the end like I was expecting. In fact the match ended exactly when it should have.

Most I've enjoyed a Jeff Hardy match since his cage match with Punk._


----------



## djmathers1207

I enjoyed Aries/Hardy and in my opinion, it is one of Hardy's best matches since coming back to TNA


----------



## Rickey

Dolph Ziggler vs. Daniel Bryan-Money Night Raw(10/22/2012)


----------



## rzombie1988

Dolph vs DB was definitely a MOTYC!


----------



## blink_41sum_182

Yep...awesome tv match. Loved the turnbuckle to the floor spot.


----------



## WEBSTER-WHYTE

John Cena vs. CM Punk - Night of Champions 2012 - ****1/4
Dolph Ziggler vs. Daniel Bryan - RAW 22/10/12 - ***1/2
Austin Aries vs. Jeff Hardy - Bound for Glory 2012 - ***1/2 
Bobby Roode vs. James Storm - Bound for Glory 2012 - ***3/4


----------



## MTheBehemoth

Dolph Ziggler vs. Daniel Bryan - RAW 22/10/12 - ***1/4


----------



## Chismo

:kobe How is ***1/4 a MOTYC?


----------



## Caponex75

I think he was more giving his opinion like Cleavage was in the previous page.


----------



## jawbreaker

why come into this thread if your opinion is just "***1/4"? if you're not actually going to say anything about the match, and it's not really MOTYC level, why are you posting about it here?

like, it's one thing if it's a match a lot of people are talking about, and you don't think it's that good, but this isn't really the case here. and if it was the case, some explanation would be great. "***1/4" doesn't start discussion and it barely contributes to it.


----------



## djmathers1207

Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Minoru Suzuki **** 1/4-****3/4

The submission wrestling was superb and the selling is off the charts. Tanahashi should not be compared to Cena at all. Still, this match is right up there with Davey/Elgin, Steen/Elgin, & Taker/Triple H for MOTY


----------



## topper1

jawbreaker said:


> why come into this thread if your opinion is just "***1/4"? if you're not actually going to say anything about the match, and it's not really MOTYC level, why are you posting about it here?
> 
> like, it's one thing if it's a match a lot of people are talking about, and you don't think it's that good, but this isn't really the case here. and if it was the case, some explanation would be great. "***1/4" doesn't start discussion and it barely contributes to it.


I personally liked seeing the ratings saved me the trouble of watching a sub par tv match that a few overrated.


----------



## Scorpion

MOTY: HHH vs Undertaker -- Wrestlemania XXVIII


----------



## bigbuxxx

topper1 said:


> I personally liked seeing the ratings. saved me the trouble of watching a sub par tv match that a few overrated.


fyp

but how do you know it's overrated without seeing it? 5 people say it's great and one person says it's good, it's hard to think it's ***1/4 as that guy said when 5 others said different.

disclaimer: i haven't seen it.


----------



## MF83

No offense to guys like smitlick but simple "x vs x - *" with no reasoning posts are just useless in my opinion. Even the shortest blurb to go along with it helps us get a sense of relativity and understanding of why you feel a match is as good or bad as it is.


----------



## Russian Hooligan

El Generico vs Kota Ibushi (DDT Special 2012) ****-****1/4


----------



## jawbreaker

MF83 said:


> No offense to guys like smitlick but simple "x vs x - *" with no reasoning posts are just useless in my opinion. Even the shortest blurb to go along with it helps us get a sense of relativity and understanding of why you feel a match is as good or bad as it is.


I don't mind what smitlick does generally because he's good about giving explanations when asked and having been around here long enough I know his tastes well enough to know what to expect from a match based on what star rating he gave it and he rates so many matches that I'd never be able to sit through that I won't begrudge him just posting star ratings and such (particularly in the DVD thread), but yeah when you're coming into the MOTYC thread it is always always always better to have some words about a match.

even if it's just "thought x dragged on too long, and I didn't care for y, though z was a lot of fun" that's immensely preferable to "***1/4" imo


----------



## Zatiel

Russian Hooligan said:


> El Generico vs Kota Ibushi (DDT Special 2012) ****-****1/4


This was my favorite match the two have had against each other yet. Ibushi's big DDT was sick as hell. Several counters that harkened back to past encounters, being ready for each other's big stuff, or finding cleverer ways to get it in. In the last third, Ibushi also looked more upset and invested than I can ever remember him being in a match before, way ahead of his Hino and Ki matches. It wasn't just a gutcheck, but like he was really shaken up and feeling it.


----------



## smitlick

MF83 said:


> No offense to guys like smitlick but simple "x vs x - *" with no reasoning posts are just useless in my opinion. Even the shortest blurb to go along with it helps us get a sense of relativity and understanding of why you feel a match is as good or bad as it is.


I personally don't have the time to write long winded reviews for every show I watch. I can provide feedback to anything if asked but I really struggle to find the time to watch them let alone write essays on why this weeks Greg Excellent match was bad or how many times Ruckus botched moves...



jawbreaker said:


> I don't mind what smitlick does generally because he's good about giving explanations when asked and having been around here long enough I know his tastes well enough to know what to expect from a match based on what star rating he gave it and he rates so many matches that I'd never be able to sit through that I won't begrudge him just posting star ratings and such (particularly in the DVD thread), but yeah when you're coming into the MOTYC thread it is always always always better to have some words about a match.
> 
> even if it's just "thought x dragged on too long, and I didn't care for y, though z was a lot of fun" that's immensely preferable to "***1/4" imo


This too... I often find that unless its actually something from some of the longer time posters here like Seabs/You/Kingcrash etc I usually skip through explanations unless theres something completely different about the rating compared to other times I've seen the match reviewed.


----------



## Russian Hooligan

Tetsuya Naito vs Kazuchika Okada (NJPW G1 Climax Day 2) ****1/4


----------



## Bubz

Russian Hooligan...WF's first Koslov mark?


----------



## Rah

Bubz said:


> Russian Hooligan...Koslov's first mark?


FTFY


----------



## Violent By Design

Hey, where do the older MOTYC threads go?


----------



## Groovemachine

They're un-stickied, so they'll just be floating around in previous pages of the Other Wrestling threads.


----------



## bigbuxxx

2011's is linked in the first post of this thread and 2010 first post of last years thread.


----------



## seabs

*They got mass archived. I've moved them back no so just go to the first post of each one and you can get back to 2008.*


----------



## EmbassyForever

*DGUSA Open The Golden Gate 2012 Review:* 

Masato Yoshino vs. Naruki Doi ****
PAC vs. Akira Tozawa ****
Cima & Ricochet vs. Masaki Mochizuki & Jimmy Sasumu ****

Low Ki vs BxB Hulk was great and AR Fox vs Callihan was awesome too


----------



## Matt_Yoda

Jay Bradley vs. Robert "Ego" Anthony (R-Pro Taken By Force 2012)- ****1/4


----------



## dukenukem3do

Sheamus vs Big Show (Hell in a Cell 2012) ****


----------



## EmbassyForever

Yep, Show vs Sheamus was fucking awesome, just finished watching the match, def ****+.


----------



## darkclaudio

Hell In a Cell
-World Heavyweight Championship: Big Show vs Sheamus **3/4
-WWE Championship: CM Punk vs Ryback **1/4

Worst PPV-WWE of all time

Puroresu review
-Kota Ibushi vs Kenny Omega *
-Tetsuya Naito vs Kazuchika Okada **** G1 Climax
-Final G1 Climax: Kazuchika Okada vs Karl Anderson ****1/4
-Kazuchika Okada vs Karl Anderson (King of Pro Wrestling) ****
-IWGP Heavyweight Championship: Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito ****1/4 (40th Anniversary Show)
-IWGP Heavyweight Championship: Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada ****1/2 (Dominion)
-IWGP Heavyweight Championship: Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki ****1/4 (King of Pro Wrestling)


----------



## WOOLCOCK

*Sheamus vs Big Show , (Hell In a Cell 10/28/12)*

Yeah can't think of 5 matches in the company better than it this year. Lesnar/Cena, Cena/Punk, Bryan/Sheamus and Bryan/Punk OTL feel like locks, but I'd say its better than any Punk/Jericho match, better than Cena/Bryan, better than Punk/Ziggler, better than Lesnar/HHH, shit what else is there from WWE in 2012? Punk/Henry 4/2/12 feels like something I'd call better, but not by much and truth be told the finishing stretch as a completion of the story might be enough for me to rank Sheamus/Show better.


Loved the basic story of the match, Sheamus hasn't taken Show seriously and has to fight from the bottom the entire match. From the opening bell to the finish he's pummelled and beaten in nearly every exchange and even when he seemignly finds a small opening the sheer size and strength of Show is too much: especially loved the Cloverleaf counter and the kickout knocking Sheamus to the floor with Sheamus' pained expression really selling how lost for words he was at how the match had gone and how dominant Show had been. Thought the match also had some really subtle and simple but nonetheless smart spots to signify the plight Sheamus was in, a perfect example would be him having to alter his setup for the forearms to the chest spot, only for Show to still find a counter and regain control of the match.

Pacing was very good and they built the eventual moment Sheamus took control marvellously and it felt like a triumphant moment as a result. Thought they also made Sheamus look resilient enough in terms of consistently fighting Show but losing every battle, rather than having him bump for everything and give nothing in return. Closing stretch might honestly be the best of the year for me. Every kickout mattered and actually progressed the match with the two moves the match was built around proving ineffective for the first time, with Sheamus in particular really selling the shock at Show kicking out of the Brogue Kick. Actual finish felt like something out of a Western, two guys locked in a brutal fight going for one last throw of the dice, only for Show to just have the all important reach necessary to knock out Sheamus.

Hopefully this wakes people up who think Sheamus has to be carried to a good/great match. Guy is consistently solid and really has a style that he can work against guys of all sizes and styles, from Bryan and Ziggler to Tensai and Barrett. Bumps well, has strong offence, paces and times the big moments in his matches very well, sells superbly visually and physically: in many ways the perceived lack of stamina actually adds to his selling, since seeing his body drenched in sweat and in the Show match struggling to get to his feet really did sell the wear and tear of the match on an entirely different level. This is how you work a Heavyweight Main Event folks, top effort from both men.


----------



## ywall2breakerj

There should be a rule about every match that is blessed with the presence of Okada Kazuchika automatically being a MOTYC.


----------



## FITZ

Sheamus/Big Show from last night was incredible. 

When I first started waching it I was think, "This is just a Hulk Hogan match with more chops." I was expecting Big Show to dominate for a while before Sheamus didn't super human come back and won the match. We got so much more than that though. Sheamus starting his comeback and showing some fire only to get beaten down by the Big Show time and time again was awesome. I can't believe how great the finishing stretch was either. I was on the edge of my seat as they managed to make me forget how sure I was that Sheamus would retain. 

**** for me at least, maybe even more. One of the better matches from WWE this year. Sheamus proved something to me and seeing the Big Show have a match of this quality again as refreshing. It gives me some hope that we could get some awesome matches from his title run.


----------



## Groovemachine

Big Show vs Sheamus - WWE Hell in a Cell - ****

Wow. I can honestly say I was not expecting that! Easily got to be Big Show's best match in years...off the top of my head I'm not even sure what his last great match was. Anyway, this ruled, and Big Show looks to have a new kind of motivation, so his latest run could be at least watchable if he keeps his work boots on. 
My main criticism of Sheamus during his World Title tenure is that he never seems very endearing; he's kinda just 'there' and doesn't do much to evoke empathy. But that wasn't the case here, the crowd were solidly invested and he did a great job of drawing viewers in. For once I actually 'cared' that Show was dominating him in the early portion of the match, making Sheamus' comeback all the more exciting.

Good stuff from an otherwise very underwhelming PPV.


----------



## blink_41sum_182

PWG World's Finest 

SSB vs. Young Bucks vs. RockNES Monsters - ****

TNA Bound for Glory

Bobby Roode vs. James Storm - ****
Jeff Hardy vs. Austin Aries - ****


----------



## Joeisgod

Here's all of my MOTYC from ***3/4 stars to ****3/4

*TOP MATCHES OF 2012*
1) Ladder Match- The Young Bucks vs. The Super Smash Bros vs. Future Shock (PWG Threemendous) ****3/4
2) Hell In A Cell-Undertaker vs. HHH (WWE Wrestlemania 28) ****3/4
3) KENTA vs. Naomichi Marafuji (NOAH 07/22/12) ****3/4
4) Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Kazuchika Okada (NJPW Dominion) ****1/2
5) Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena (WWE Extreme Rules) ****1/2
6) Last Man Standing- Kevin Steen vs. El Generico (ROH Showdown In The Sun Day 1) ****1/2
7) Kazuchika Okada vs. Tetsuya Naito (NJPW 04/03/12) ****1/2
8) Street Fight- James Storm vs. Bobby Roode (TNA Bound For Glory) ****1/4
9) CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan (WWE Over The Limit) ****1/4
10) El Generico vs. Ricochet (PWG Death To All Metal) ****1/4
11) Team ROH vs. The Special Envoy (Chikara King of Trios Night 3) ****1/4
12) El Generico vs. Kota Ibushi (DDT 10/21/12) ****1/4
13) Michael Elgin vs. Davey Richards (ROH Showdown In The Sun Day 2) ****1/4
14) Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yoshihito Sasaki (BJW) ****1/4
15) AJ Styles and Kurt Angle vs. Christopher Daniels and Kaz (TNA Slammiversary) ****1/4
16) Super Smash Bros vs. The Young Bucks (PWG Death To All Metal) ****1/4
17) Takeshi Morishima & Katsuhiko Nakajima vs Shinjiro Otani & Daichi Hashimoto (NOAH) ****1/4
18) Chris Jericho vs. CM Punk (WWE Wrestlemania 28) ****1/4
19) Kevin Steen vs. Willie Mack (PWG Threemendous) ****1/4
20) Kenny Omega vs. Hiroshi Yamato (AJPW 03/01/12) ****1/4
21) Manami Toyota, Mike Quackenbush & Jigsaw vs Sendai Girls (Chikara King of Trios Night 2) ****1/4
22) Low Ki vs. Kota Ibushi (NJPW 10/26/12) ****1/4
23) Yuji Nagata vs. Suwama (AJPW 05/05/12) ****1/4
24) Hybrid Rules- Adam Cole vs. Kyle O'Reilly (ROH Best in the World) ****1/4
25) CM Punk vs. John Cena (WWE Night of Champions) ****
26) Last Man Standing- AJ Styles vs. Christopher Daniels (TNA Destination X) ****
27) Prince Devitt vs. PAC (NJPW 06/06/12) ****
28) Commando Boishoi & Tsubasa Kuragaki vs. Kaori Yoneyama & Manami Toyota (Chikara King of Trios Night 3) ****
29) Johnny Gargano vs. AR Fox (Evolve 13) ****
30) El Generico and Harashima vs Kenny Omega and Kudo (DDT) ****
31) 2 Out of 3 Falls- Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan (WWE Extreme RUles ) ****
32) Yoshihito Sasaki vs Sami Callihan (BJW) ****
33) Team JWP vs. Team Fist (Chikara Night of Trios Night 2) ****
34) AJ Styles and Kurt Angle vs. Christopher Daniels and Kaz (TNA No Surrender) ****
35) B-Boy vs. Drake Younger (PWG Threemendous) ****
36) Elimanation Rules-Davey Richards vs. Eddie Edwards vs. Roderick Strong (ROH Showdown In The Sun Day 1) ****
37) Jeff Hardy vs. Austin Aries (TNA Bound For Glory) ****
38) NO DQ- Kevin Steen vs. Davey Richards (ROH Best In The World) ****
39) Austin Aries vs. Bobby Roode (TNA Destination X) ****
40) Seth Rollins vs. Dean Ambrose (FCW) ****
41) Cage Match- Jeff Hardy vs. Kurt Angle (TNA Lockdown) ****
42) El Generico vs. Sami Callaghan (Evolve 13) ****
43) NO DQ- CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan (WWE MITB) ****
44) Austin Aries vs. Robert Roode (TNA Hardcore Justice) ****
45) Ryusuke Taguchi vs Low Ki (NJWP Dominion) ****
46) Jun Akiyama vs. Keiji Mutoh (AJPW) ****
47) WWE Smackdown Elimanation Chamber (WWE Elimanation Chamber) ****
48) Psicosis, Manson, Histeria vs Dinastia, Dorada, Octagon (AAA) ****
49) Davey Richards vs. Eddie Edwards (ROH SGH 06/09/12) ****
50) Kurt Angle and AJ Styles vs. Chavo and Herndez vs. Daniels and Kaz (TNA Bound For Glory) ***3/4
51) Brian Cage vs. Eddie Edwards (PWG Threemendous) ***3/4
52) CM Punk vs. Kane vs. Daniel Bryan (WWE No Way Out) ***3/4
53) ack Evans vs. Teddy Hart vs. Phiscosis vs. Juventud Guerrera (AAA) ***3/4
54) Street Fight- CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho (WWE Extreme Rules) ***3/4
55) Jeff Hardy vs. Kurt Angle (TNA Against All Odds) ***3/4
56) Sheamus vs. Dolph Ziggler (WWE No Way Out) ***3/4
57) Kofi Kingston vs. The Miz (WWE Main Event) ***3/4
58) Bobby Roode vs. AJ Styles (TNA Impact) ***3/4
59) Samoa Joe vs. Austin Aries (TNA Slammiversary) ***3/4
60) Rock vs. John Cena (WWE Wrestlemania 28) ***3/4
61) Bully Ray vs. Austin Aries (TNA Sacrifice) ***3/4
62) Daniel Bryan vs. CM Punk (WWE Raw) ***3/4
63) Royal Rumble Match (WWE Royal Rumble) ***3/4

*Honorable Mentions*
Alex Shelly vs. Austin Aries (TNA Against All Odds 2012) ***1/2
Mark Henry vs. CM Punk (WWE Raw) ***1/2
Daniel Bryan vs. CM Punk 1 ( WWE Raw) ***1/2
Sheamus vs. Alberto Del Rio vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton (WWE Over The Limit) ***1/2
Smackdown MITB Match (WWE MITB)***1/2
Big Show vs. Sheamus (WWE Hell In A Cell) ***1/2


I still have a lot of wrestling too catch up on but that pretty much sums up my favorite matches from this year. I was reading this thread and there was no mention of The Miz and Kofi Kingston TV match from a couple of weeks ago. Definitely a TV MOTY canidate that a lot of people should check out if they haven't yet.


----------



## seabs

*Project Ego vs The Thrillers - IPW:UK No Escape 2012*
_Super fun tag match. Project Ego are awesome goofballs. God wrestling needs more goofy heel tag teams like them. They sacrifice a lot of the length that you'd normally give the heat segment to the babyfaces working on top but when the babyfaces running roughshod on the goofy heels is this good then it probably works for the better. Haskins and Redman are really good as british fans should know. Sucks Haskins kinda flopped his chance in TNA on first impressions which count for everything because he's really good and has a super superstar look about him. Redman's on NXT now so good for him. He hits some peachy suplexes towards the end. Great babyface team. Great heel team. Well laid out match. Guess what you end up with._

******

*Zack Sabre Jr. vs Sami Callihan - IPW:UK No Escape 2012*
_Shame that the second half of this wasn't as great as the first half because otherwise it could have been a legit MOTYC. Both guys kill each other at the start and work super stiff. Zack needs to work more of these matches and not just when he faces Walter or Sami. This is obviously where Sami's at his best too and he doesn't let his annoying mannerisms get in the way of him beating someone up. Loses its way a bit in the second half and they kinda give up any limb work they started and lay off on the stiffness a bit too. Still really good though. _

****3/4*

*Chris Masters vs Stixx - IPW:UK Revolution 2012*
_Ahh the nostalgic feeling of Masters carrying an average guy to a great Superstars esque match. Masters needs to turn up on more Indy shows and do his thing because his thing rules. Hasn't lost a step and he's still awesome working from the bottom up. Finish is really good too. Stixx is a guy that normally sucks but Masters leads him to by far the best thing he's ever been apart of. Probably just shy of a nomination with any weight but it's Masters in a great match and people who dug his Superstar run will dig this just as much as me._

****3/4*

*Marty Scurll vs Sami Callihan - IPW:UK Revolution 2012*
_Great match. Sami on smaller shows tends to deliver more often than not because he's just doing what he's best at and not overdoing his character so that it feels forced and phony. Stuff on the stage was great. Scurll really steps up to a level he hasn't been in a singles match before. Leg work is good and the good thing about leg work in Callihan matches is that it always goes somewhere and isn't just filler. Scurll's selling is great and not just when the leg gets attacked. Dug the finish given the context of the match with Marty working from behind for the majority of the match post stage bump and the leg halting any of his attempted comebacks. Good way of making your new champ look great without making Calliahn look any worse than him._

*****1/4*


----------



## blink_41sum_182

DDT Max Bump - El Generico vs. Kota Ibushi - ****
DDT 10-21-12 - El Generico vs. Kota Ibushi - ****

I think the 2nd match was getting better but I wasn't expecting that finish.


----------



## seancarleton77

Show vs. Sheamus was a strong **** at minimum.


----------



## EmbassyForever

*WWE Wrestlemania XXVII*
Undertaker vs Triple H - ****3/4
Chris Jericho vs CM Punk - ****1/4+
The Rock vs John Cena - ****

I hated the show when I first saw it but I guess it was cause I was so pissed after Sheamus vs Bryan BS and this crap killed my excitement. Overall great WM when the undercard matches were nothing special but noting bad (Kane/Orton **1/2, Rhodes/Show **, T. Teddy/T. Johnny **1/4 and the Divas was better than usual and it was Kelly's best performance ever).


----------



## Matt_Yoda

*@EmbassyForever*: Hey dude you're missing an "I" on the end of XXVII there lol.
____________

*Masato Yoshino & Naruki Doi vs. YAMATO & Shingo Takagi (8/2/2012)- ***3/4-*****

-Great twin gate title match. Quick feeling out process before both teams started to trade momentum. Lots of back and forth mixed with their trademark sequences, we also got some hilarious miscommunications between both teams that I would’ve liked to see them play more into but oh well. Really good finishing stretch with everyone desperately looking to put the opponent away; in the end YAMATO finally scores the Galleria for the fall, thus earning a title shot against CIMA. Great stuff.


----------



## topper1

EmbassyForever said:


> *WWE Wrestlemania XXVII*
> Undertaker vs Triple H - ****3/4


Stopped reading here. Pretty sure people that liked this didn't watch it and decided it was ****1/2+ before it even happened


----------



## bigbuxxx

topper1 said:


> Stopped reading here. Pretty sure people that liked this didn't watch it and decided it was ****1/2+ before it even happened


i was going to watch the pwg show from 09 he pimped in the indy thread till i saw his ratings for the WM matches :no::gun:


----------



## EmbassyForever

topper1 said:


> Stopped reading here. Pretty sure people that liked this didn't watch it and decided it was ****1/2+ before it even happened





> i was going to watch the pwg show from 09 he pimped in the indy thread till i saw his ratings for the WM matches


Thank you for your irrelevant opinion :daniels


----------



## seabs

*Dean Allmark vs Stixx - IPW:UK Extreme Measures 2012*
_Allmark at it again. Maybe I'm warming to Stixx or maybe it's just him having good guys to work with but this is the 4th Stixx match I've watched this week that has been good or really good. Allmark has really good matches with everyone though and this is no different. Fall away slam on the floor was an awesome spot and set the finish up really well. Match peaked at the finish which always rocks._

****3/4*

*Mark Andrews vs Wild Boar - Progress Chapter 2*
_Seen a few Wild Boar matches now and he's never really impressed me but this was awesome and both guys looked tremendous. They've clearly got a lot of experience working together and the chemistry is great in this. Feels like those old **** matches you'd get in the middle of ROH cards during the glory years where guys just go out and have a great wrestling match. Package piledriver powerbomb was nuts. Great little match that came out of nowhere._

******

*London Riots vs Velocity Vipers - Progress Chapter 2*
_Oh good god this is amazing. Riots are tow thuggish bullies. Vipers are scrawny looking insects. The thugs kill the wannabe boy band. And by kill I mean they absolutely destroy them and it's fucking amazing. Vipers get enough spots in for it to be competitive enough but Riots cut them off everytime and go back to destroying them some more. Someone needs to send me every London Riots match that exists. This is on youtube as well as DVD so there's reason not to watch it because this ruled the earth._

*****+*


----------



## WOOLCOCK

*London Riots vs Velocity Vipers - Progress Chapter 2*

Yeah this was just an incredible spectacle and a total blast to sit through. Both Vipers make Pete Doherty look like a bodybuiler and they're just bumping machines for everything the Riots throw at them. Riots themselves are really entertaining bruisers with some nice trash talk and just being suitably stiff in every bit of offence they dish out. More commentators need to reference their distain that the Justin Bieber wannabee getting slaughtered isn't actually the real Beiber. HOLY SHIT at the attempted Ziggler monkey flip bump the scrawny looking Viper attempted when taking an exploder suplex, landed disgustingly on his knees and got taken to the back almost immediately. The Viper who took most of the beating actually looked pretty damn good as a mini Evan Bourne bump freak with some admittedly spotty offence, although the extent to which the Riots had continually dominated at least made the chaotic and unique offence feel necessary instead of just mindless spots. Spot where one of the Riots dislodged the mouthguard, spat on it and then pushed it back into the Viper's mouth was a nifty character moment and the sort of thing someone like Steen should replicate. 


*Sami Callihan vs John Morrison, (2CW 8/3/12)*

Ehh a bit of a divisive match tbh, opening stages were pretty uneventful and didn't feel too well structured and seemed disjointed and haphazard. Just a bunch of basic countering broken up into stop-start momentum with some brawling on the outside but with no theme being developed. Sami took a couple of strong looking bumps in all of this though, and Morrison's moonsault spot where he balanced with both feet on the guardrail and apron to hit a moonsault was fucking spectacular as far as nutty spots go. Callihan transition spot was well timed with Sami failing to hit a floatover powerbomb off the top rope, only to superkick Morrison's knee as he's still clinging to the ropes. Next few minutes are honestly the peak of the match, with Sami having a bunch of nifty looking submissions to exploit the knee injury as well as utilising some creative spots such as wrenching the injured leg during a cover and breaking out the Finlay powerslam into the ropes spot. Morrison sells really well during all of this, noticeably limping when he's on both feet and bringing it into key moments of the match, such as when he counters the odd Callihan move only for his knee to buckle as well as a sweet spot near the end where Morrison's knee takes too long in pulling Sami to the corner for Starship pain and allows Sami to hit a surprise backdrop suplex. 

Last few minutes weren't as strong imo, and I disliked Sami ignoring the leg for a few minutes and basically losing out to Morrison in strike battles, rather than Morrison making a comeback by countering some of Callihan's attempts at further injuring the knee. Its watchable and I'll still take this sort of match over a strike battle orientated Kyle O'Reilly match, but truth be told the biggest thing I took out of this is that Callihan vs Masters could seriously OWN.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

*DGUSA Fearless 2012:*
AR Fox vs. Ricochet- ****

*DGUSA Uprising 2012:*
El Generico vs. Sami Callihan- ****1/4+

*DGUSA Freedom Fight 2012:*
CIMA vs. Sami Callihan- ****1/4
El Generico & Samuray Del Sol vs. Genki Horiguchi & Ryo Saito- ****
Johnny Gargano vs. Akira Tozawa vs. AR Fox vs. Ricochet- ****1/2-****3/4


----------



## asdf0501

Segunda Caida said:


> ... but truth be told the biggest thing I took out of this is that Callihan vs Masters could seriously OWN.



This is a shit i will seriously pay to see.


----------



## Chismo

People need to watch Kingston/Tadasuke and Sugar/Tatanka matches. Fantastic stuff.



Matt_Yoda said:


> *DGUSA Fearless 2012:*
> AR Fox vs. Ricochet- ****
> 
> *DGUSA Uprising 2012:*
> El Generico vs. Sami Callihan- ****1/4+
> 
> *DGUSA Freedom Fight 2012:*
> CIMA vs. Sami Callihan- ****1/4
> El Generico & Samuray Del Sol vs. Genki Horiguchi & Ryo Saito- ****
> Johnny Gargano vs. Akira Tozawa vs. AR Fox vs. Ricochet- ****1/2-****3/4


This, minus Sami/CIMA. The last night's main event was absolutely fantastic, and it gave PWG's classics from this year a run for their money.


----------



## Even.Flow.NYC

TNA has had some fantastic matches this year. Wouldnt be surprised if they officially get MOTY


----------



## WOOLCOCK

asdf0501 said:


> This is a shit i will seriously pay to see.


Amen. Morrison sold well, but truth be told watching it I could just imagine how well Masters would sell the workover, whilst having the advantage of timing and working his comeback in a better fashion than Morrison. The final few minutes weren't exactly bad, but rather underwhelming. Seeing how well Masters used to make his finishing stretches on top of the workover was a strong staple of his matches, plus I could see Callihan thriving in an environment where he's outmatched in terms of power and has to find a new gameplan.

Morrison/Callihan is here btw: http://vimeo.com/52308729



JoeRulz said:


> People need to watch Kingston/Tadasuke and Sugar/Tatanka matches. Fantastic stuff.


I generally enjoy Kingston matches, so I'll definitely give his match a watch if a link surfaces.


----------



## Chismo

King is a strong candidate for the Indy WOTY moniker. He knows how to play the game. #BOSS

Btw, if you catch Sugar/Tatanka, you'll be blown away and think you're watching WWF '91.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

JoeRulz said:


> King is a strong candidate for the Indy WOTY moniker. He knows how to play the game. #BOSS
> 
> Btw, if you catch Sugar/Tatanka, you'll be blown away and think you're watching WWF '91.


Yeah Kingston is the sort of guy I wished we saw more of in the indies. Has really strong offence, but the key to his matches is his selling and ability to make it a story which dominates the wrestling. It makes his stiff striking offence feel more desperate and necessary rather than a poor imitation of Japan, because he's taken the time to sell and make himself look vulnerable and in danger. I still really want to watch the Quackenbush match from the season finale last year. Quack is sometimes too cute and spotty for my tastes, but I've read a bit about the match and Quack being the base from which Kingston has to fight under and overcome is definitely a role where his submission and man of a 1000 holds style will shine. Kingston/Danielson in 2010 is still one of Danielson's best matches in the timeframe he debuted on NXT up until now. Great story and selling from Kingston, just a shame about the fuck finish but it tells you how good the match was when you don't even get a proper finish and its still easily a capable MOTYC based on what we got before it.

I'll give Sugar/Tatanka a watch then, just to see what its like. There's a lot I admire about Chikara in terms of the characters and presentation of the product, and in the right setting the light hearted comedy is something I can appreciate. I do find some of the actual ringwork to be far spottier than classic Lucha however a lot of the time though.


----------



## Chismo

Segunda Caida said:


> Yeah Kingston is the sort of guy I wished we saw more of in the indies. Has really strong offence, but the key to his matches is his selling and ability to make it a story which dominates the wrestling. It makes his stiff striking offence feel more desperate and necessary rather than a poor imitation of Japan, because he's taken the time to sell and make himself look vulnerable and in danger. I still really want to watch the Quackenbush match from the season finale last year. Quack is sometimes too cute and spotty for my tastes, but I've read a bit about the match and Quack being the base from which Kingston has to fight under and overcome is definitely a role where his submission and man of a 1000 holds style will shine. Kingston/Danielson in 2010 is still one of Danielson's best matches in the timeframe he debuted on NXT up until now. Great story and selling from Kingston, just a shame about the fuck finish but it tells you how good the match was when you don't even get a proper finish and its still easily a capable MOTYC based on what we got before it.
> 
> I'll give Sugar/Tatanka a watch then, just to see what its like. There's a lot I admire about Chikara in terms of the characters and presentation of the product, and in the right setting the light hearted comedy is something I can appreciate. I do find some of the actual ringwork to be far spottier than classic Lucha however a lot of the time though.


Amen. 

I need to re-watch King/Quack, only seen it once. I have it at ****1/4, IIRC. I might download the whole show and re-watch it, I remember it being awesome all around. And, never seen that King/DBD match, I need to find the link. 

Btw, did you watch King/Hero "Loser Leaves Twon" from CZ-DUB? Immense stuff.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

God damn did Megaupload crashing really fuck up links. Pretty sure you should be able to find one in the media section, but its legit great for the time it gets. Kingston tries to go hold for hold out of pride with Danielson, pays for it and gets his leg torn to shreads and has to try and find a way back into the match. Simply yet effective story and with really strong selling from Kingston.

Nah I've seen a lot of recaps and promos from their on/off again feud, think I recall someone who I generally listen to more than most really give their LLT match strong praise so I'll have a search and see if I can track it down.


----------



## Bubz

Seabs said:


> *London Riots vs Velocity Vipers - Progress Chapter 2*
> _Oh good god this is amazing. Riots are tow thuggish bullies. Vipers are scrawny looking insects. The thugs kill the wannabe boy band. And by kill I mean they absolutely destroy them and it's fucking amazing. Vipers get enough spots in for it to be competitive enough but Riots cut them off everytime and go back to destroying them some more. Someone needs to send me every London Riots match that exists. This is on youtube as well as DVD so there's reason not to watch it because this ruled the earth._
> 
> *****+*





Segunda Caida said:


> *London Riots vs Velocity Vipers - Progress Chapter 2*
> 
> Yeah this was just an incredible spectacle and a total blast to sit through. Both Vipers make Pete Doherty look like a bodybuiler and they're just bumping machines for everything the Riots throw at them. Riots themselves are really entertaining bruisers with some nice trash talk and just being suitably stiff in every bit of offence they dish out. More commentators need to reference their distain that the Justin Bieber wannabee getting slaughtered isn't actually the real Beiber. HOLY SHIT at the attempted Ziggler monkey flip bump the scrawny looking Viper attempted when taking an exploder suplex, landed disgustingly on his knees and got taken to the back almost immediately. The Viper who took most of the beating actually looked pretty damn good as a mini Evan Bourne bump freak with some admittedly spotty offence, although the extent to which the Riots had continually dominated at least made the chaotic and unique offence feel necessary instead of just mindless spots. Spot where one of the Riots dislodged the mouthguard, spat on it and then pushed it back into the Viper's mouth was a nifty character moment and the sort of thing someone like Steen should replicate.


Yeah this was really good. London Riots looked so good, definitely two guys I'd like to see more of. LOL at one of the Vipers actually being that little chavy kid in the film Attack The Block.


----------



## jawbreaker

TheAverageGuy said:


> TNA has had some fantastic matches this year. Wouldnt be surprised if they officially get MOTY


what
what
what
what
what


----------



## geraldinhio

jawbreaker said:


> what
> what
> what
> what
> what


Bully Ray vs Austin Aries sacrifice 
Austin Aries vs Bobby Roode Destination X
Bobby Roode vs James Storm BFG
AJ Styles and Kurt angle vs Christopher Daniels and Kazarian Slammiversary 

The tag match being the weakest of the bunch. The rest are simply fantastic. I wasn't sold on Roode entirely to I watched some of these and A Double is the fucking man as we all know. His match with Bully Ray is just immense.


----------



## Bubz

Only TNA match I have as a legit MOTYC is Aries/Roode.


----------



## Nervosa

Bubz said:


> Only TNA match I have as a legit MOTYC is Aries/Roode.


This.

and even that match isn't in the same league as the big 3 matches from NJPW this year.


----------



## Violent By Design

Great year for TNA as a product, but there isn't a serious MOTY candidate. Best match I saw was Aries vs Roode 1 (didn't see their rematch), and it doesn't touch NJPW, PWG and WWE's MOTYs imo


----------



## Chismo

Ray/Aries > all.


----------



## Bubz

Nervosa said:


> This.
> 
> and even that match isn't in the same league as the big 3 matches from NJPW this year.


This. Also, WWE's best matches are well ahead of it I'd say.


----------



## Bruce L

I was very disappointed in both the Roode/Aries matches, but both ppv Styles & Angle/Daniels & Kazarian matches, Aries/Ray, and Roode/Styles from "Impact" are all MOTYCs. I'd be very surprised if any of them actually ranked too highly on anybody's list in end-of-year voting, but they'll all be somewhere on mine. (Aries' X Division title defenses against Shelley and Joe are pretty great as well.)


----------



## geraldinhio

Bubz said:


> Only TNA match I have as a legit MOTYC is Aries/Roode.


What didn't you like about Ray/Aries or have you even seen it? If not I highly recommend it. 

TNA hasn't had many great matches this years the matches I've mentioned ( forgot Styles/Roode from Impact) are legit MOTYC IMO. I know PWG and New Japan have had better matches, and far more MOTYC on a consistent bases but it doesn't take away from these matches being great.


----------



## ywall2breakerj

I think my TNA MOTY is the Joe vs Angle vs AJ vs Daniels Ladder match, although I've missed 90% of Impacts and still haven't seen BFG. 


Some of you will probably we suprised Joe carrying 3 other guys to a very good match in 2012 is what I have above Aries/Ray and other pimped TNA matches, but they didn't really do much for me. It's also the only one I have at **** or higher.....


----------



## Chismo

Let's face it, NO ONE is on New Japan's and PWG's level (except for DGUSA sometimes). But, I've seen most of WWE's notable (famous) matches from 2012, and the only one worth mentioning in the same sentence with Ray/Aries and Storm/Roode is Punk/Bryan from OTL. And Sheamus/Bryan is pretty damn close, but not quite there.


----------



## geraldinhio

JoeRulz said:


> Let's face it, NO ONE is on New Japan's and PWG's level (except for DGUSA sometimes). But, I've seen most of WWE's notable (famous) matches from 2012, and the only one worth mentioning in the same sentence with Ray/Aries and Storm/Roode is Punk/Bryan from OTL. And Sheamus/Bryan is pretty damn close, but not quite there.


This.

I'd add Brock/Cena to the list of WWE matches though.


----------



## Nervosa

I like Ray/Aries a lot. Still, for me, not better than Punk/Bryan or Cena/Lesnar.

Roode and Storm bored me to death. Just some spots, and nothing more, as far as I am concerned. There is no reason for someone to take a spot onto tacks and NOT roll away from them. Roode fell onto them and just laid there to wait FOREVER to get splashed on.

Don't get me wrong, TNA has improved. But 'Improved' and 'Great' are two different things. 

For me, they haven't had a 4 1/2 star match yet this year, which knocks them out of the top 8. When there are 8 matches better than your best match, you don't have a real match of the year, in my opinion.


----------



## dukenukem3do

Nervosa said:


> I like Ray/Aries a lot. Still, for me, not better than Punk/Bryan or Cena/Lesnar.
> 
> Roode and Storm bored me to death. Just some spots, and nothing more, as far as I am concerned. There is no reason for someone to take a spot onto tacks and NOT roll away from them. Roode fell onto them and just laid there to wait FOREVER to get splashed on.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, TNA has improved. But 'Improved' and 'Great' are two different things.
> 
> For me, they haven't had a 4 1/2 star match yet this year, which knocks them out of the top 8. When there are 8 matches better than your best match, you don't have a real match of the year, in my opinion.


Its not like last year where there's not a single match that stood out except for Ray/Styles and the 4 way and DX 11 but even then they were forgettable, the TNA matches are just as good as the other matches this year


----------



## jawbreaker

all the whats were at "I wouldn't be surprised if they officially get MOTY" because _what even_

I don't doubt that TNA has been watchable this year and that Austin Aries has had some good matches. fine. whatever. but what the fuck is that "officially get MOTY" bullshit? who picks that? why does it matter? why would you say that and not mention a single match? who gives a shit if a company "gets MOTY"? why do you think that says something about the company? a million other questions, too!


----------



## Nervosa

dukenukem3do said:


> Its not like last year where there's not a single match that stood out except for Ray/Styles and the 4 way and DX 11 but even then they were forgettable, the TNA matches are just as good as the other matches this year


Agree to Disagree then, I guess. I don't think anything TNA has done has been anywhere near the best matches this year from NJPW, PWG, or even WWE.


----------



## Kid Kamikaze10

Yeah, I also call BS on TNA having anything to the caliber of WWE's MOTYCs. Or even CMLL's for that matter. 

And I wouldn't even dare compare them to PWG's crazy-ass MOTYCs or NJPWs. That's just ridiculous.


----------



## rockdig1228

This whole discussion about TNA not having any MOTYC brings up a fun little sidenote that we often overlook: not everyone's taste in wrestling is the same. I don't watch too much outside of WWE & TNA, but I will go out of my way to watch something that's getting praise. 

For example, I heard nothing but great things about Richards/Elgin earlier in the year, but when I saw it, I was underwhelmed. It didn't feel like a big match (to me), the first 10 minutes didn't seem focused, and in general, I am not a fan of matches with tons of big moves and kickouts.

I'm not even entirely sure I could say definitively what a match of the year is... That means something different to everyone. I have a few favorite matches so far though and those include Bryan/Sheamus, Bryan/Punk, Aries/Bully, Aries/Roode (Destination X), and Cena/Lesnar. They all felt like big time matches (maybe with the exception of Aries/Bully), with great crowds that helped add something to the atmosphere. Just my two cents.


----------



## dukenukem3do

I think you guys are being unfair to the tna matches


----------



## Bubz

I think you're being unfair to the NJPW, WWE and PWG matches .


----------



## dukenukem3do

Bubz said:


> I think you're being unfair to the NJPW, WWE and PWG matches .


Hey I still love those matches too


----------



## EmbassyForever

Barrett vs Sheamus frm Main Event was really good IMO and Show was gold. Worth a watch.


----------



## MTheBehemoth

^ It was not a MOTYC tho


----------



## Obfuscation

ywall2breakerj said:


> I think my TNA MOTY is the Joe vs Angle vs AJ vs Daniels Ladder match, although I've missed 90% of Impacts and still haven't seen BFG.
> 
> 
> Some of you will probably we suprised Joe carrying 3 other guys to a very good match in 2012 is what I have above Aries/Ray and other pimped TNA matches, but they didn't really do much for me. It's also the only one I have at **** or higher.....


That match was solid at best. Daniels dying during the entire bout was the only noteworthy parts.

Bully vs Aries is the easy TNA MOTY. Without a doubt that takes the cake.


----------



## ywall2breakerj

I enjoy watching Joe punch people in the face more than anything else in TNA. Different strokes for different folks...


----------



## USAUSA1

TNA still exist?


----------



## Chismo

USAUSA1 said:


> TNA still exist?


No, they're been bought by TCW.


----------



## Bubz

USAUSA1 said:


> TNA still exist?


I honestly find TNA far more enjoyable than ROH if I'm being honest.


----------



## USAUSA1

JoeRulz said:


> No, they're been bought by TCW.


Moe Stegall vs. Austin Aries, the battle of the midgets book it.


----------



## Nervosa

Does no one else have a problem with the Ray vs. Aries finish? I thought it was really dumb.

EDIT: Scratch that. I don't mean the finish: I mean, the Joseph Park stuff.


----------



## Zatiel

I didn't have a problem with the Park stuff, but that's because I never viewed it as a great match. It's a very generic match - little guy gets the shine, then gets beaten up and brutalized, makes his big comeback and is triumphant. Both guys were good at their roles, with Aries taking some savage bumps (like the one to the floor), but it was nothing special either time I saw it.


----------



## Obfuscation

All Joe Park did was yell at the ref that Bully has the chain. Didn't do much to hurt the match.

Fail to see how it's generic. Probably because it didn't have enough MOVEZ in it. Only fantastic storytelling.


----------



## Nervosa

Hailsabin said:


> All Joe Park did was yell at the ref that Bully has the chain. Didn't do much to hurt the match.
> 
> Fail to see how it's generic. Probably because it didn't have enough MOVEZ in it. Only fantastic storytelling.


I agree that the storytelling was really good, and I liked it a lot.

But the Joe Park stuff ruined it for me. It wasn't that he yelled at the ref, it was that Ray went out to an argued with him, completely giving up his control in the match.

To me, the great storytelling was just completely taken off track. It was just utterly unnecessary. Part of the problem, I'll admit, is that any time Joseph Park shows us and we are supposed to believe he is a different guy from Abyss is just so, so stupid that bringing the angle into the match just enrages me all by itself.

My point is just that it almost came off as if Aries needed help to start his comeback, which I thought was just kinda lame.


----------



## Obfuscation

If anything it showed the cockiness of Bully. Thinking he had Aries beat up enough that he could go and mess with Park w/o any chance of a comeback. Then he went back on the assault only to lose his momentum, thus eventually, the match altogether. Worked for me. Continued telling a story instead of it being random nonsense that took away from the bout.

And it got to continue the other program for Bully in the future too. That actually was a nice touch by TNA. Something about that match transcended the image of crap that TNA has been associated with for years. I really, really loved that match. One of the best in the history of the company.


----------



## Nervosa

I guess I'm just too picky, then. When I'm really digging a match, I don't want outside distractions. We already knew Bully was cocky, and I guess the extra stuff just took me out. The other problem if that was the point where he had already said 'youre crazy' at Aries, meaning he wasn't really taking him lightly anymore. 

It's reminiscent, I guess, or richards vs. Tyler Black years back when Hagadorn coming in ruined it for me, but others loved it. I'm really glad it worked for other people, but for me, it was just TNA not leaving a good enough match alone, and their disgusting need to force outside storylines into feuds rearing its head again. As soon as bully left to mess with Park, I stopped caring. For me, the momentum of the story in the match was lost after that.


----------



## Obfuscation

That does seem like nit-picking, but that's all your call. No judgment here.

We know where I place the match at. Top level stuff.


----------



## Chismo

Nervosa said:


> it was that Ray went out to an argued with him, completely giving up his control in the match.


That's what Ray did almost every time during his heel run. It's character work 101.


----------



## Obfuscation

Bully Ray always being a BULLY thinking his upper hand can't fault. Love that man and his ability to tell a story.


----------



## Nervosa

I mean, I'm not saying it doesn't work as a character, and when most of his matches are meaningless 8 minutes brawls, who cares if he gives up control?

Its only when a match has really built up a cool story that taking a time out to go argue with the guy TNA wants us to pretend isn't Abyss that it really bothers me. They were kinda playing up that Bully was becoming legitimately scared of Aries after he kept getting up from the strikes. If I am to believe that Bully really thinks Aries is crazy and he is worried about him, I can't see him going to the outside just because Park is yelling about the chain. It seems more likely to me that Bully would say 'F*ck Joe Park' and just do what he wanted to do, especially if they wanted to build up that Bully was becoming legitimately scared of Aries' toughness. 

I guess it just seems so unnecessary to take a little timeout from the match for some empty storyline advancement with a separate feud.


----------



## Concrete

*Jigsaw vs. Eddie Kingston(Chikara’s Aniversario:The Ogg and I):*****
*Kingston is the man (not really big news there). I really love some of the little things he does like whenever he has a submission he will tell the referee to ask his opponent if he quits. This is one of the matches in what I would call the best title reign going in America right now. Jigsaw is no slouch either though he is more typical of an indy fellow. That sort of played into things for me honestly.

In the earlier parts of the match Jigsaw hits the weak knee of Kingston and works it for a bit and Kingston sells it really well as always. It is when Jigsaw starts taking it to Kingston with success that he abandons working the leg for a style he is more comfortable with and that’s hitting people in the head with his foot. 

Another thing Kingston does in this match that I thought was nifty was using the count on the outside. He’s got the championship advantage so when he is getting beaten up by Jigsaw, he goes to the bar area to get a breather while Jigsaw has to go to the ring to restart the count. When Kingston had the advantage on Jigsaw he did a Kingston dive spot and then took a breather again, this time in the ring.

Something Chikara is really good at doing is having their big matches build. Along with that they know that every show doesn’t need a big match on it. These guys build with matwork towards the beginning, some crowd brawling in the middle-ish, and then end with a fantastic finishing stretch. Chikara doesn’t really have both guys bust out all there big moves but these guys did it and Kingston ends it in a perfect and brutal way. Not going to win MOTY for real or anything but a great match in Kingston’s reign for sure.*



*Sara Del Rey vs. Eddie Kingston(Chikara’s The Great Escape):****1/2*
*This match was absolutely incredible. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone give this match this high of a rating but to me this was one of the best matches of the year and in my Top 5 for sure and right up there with Kingston vs. Quack at High Noon. I’d also like to say, many have said it and that doesn’t make any less true, that this is a match you’d only see in Chikara. 

Kingston is one of the best male wrestlers on the American indy scene and I could maybe think of only one guy I would put ahead of him for sure. Del Rey was the greatest female wrestler on the indys and possibly the entire world. I don’t think there are any North American female wrestlers I would put above her, EVER. You mix these two elements together with the willingness of a company willing to have a truly competitive match between a male and a female and that’s a recipe for success.

During the entire match Kingston makes a point that he doesn’t think he should be wrestling this woman. He doesn’t do what some men would do in this situation when approaching a match against a woman in this way. Other men would do lots of exaggerating taunting right in front of the woman. Kingston does taunt Del Rey but while he is either beating up her or getting beat up by her. In the earlier parts of the match he is getting kicked and even though he is clearly getting his shit rocked his shit rocked he says “C’mon sweetheart”. Another part that has less to do with Del Rey being a lady is when she goes for a submission on the leg and Kingston says “You’ve gotta be kidding me,” and thus Del Rey replies by standing up and kicking the piss out of the leg which starts a “She’s not kidding” chant. That was awesome.

The amount of emotion in this match from Del Rey is simply a sight to behold. There is a point in the match where she had a crossface locked in and it looked like she was trying to use her legs more to damage Kingston’s arm that she had been working 2/3 of the match I’d say and her facial expressions are perfect. You think she is about to cry because she is giving everything she has and she wants to win so damn badly. 

Though I thought the finish could have been ever so slightly better the entire match as a whole was beauty that I really haven’t seen anywhere else outside of Chikara. You can tell why WWE wanted Sara to train their divas. She is one of the best wrestlers on the planet (man or female) and maybe the saddest thing about this is that this would be the last great match we may ever see her in.

*


----------



## Eclairal

My MOTY is Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan at Extreme Rules


----------



## ywall2breakerj

The "storytelling" in Aries-Ray stroke me as the same melodramatic bullshit in the Taker-HHH matches.



The match started of with Bully's annoying shtick which Aries reacted to simply by lying down on the top rope. THAT was marvelous. So what does he follow it up with? Yelling "I'm not scared of you" and so on and bringing himself down to Ray's level. It didn't make me want to cheer Aries, it just made them both look like immature idiots. I felt like I was wathing two five year olds fighting. Everything after that felt forced nad I struggle to remember the parts of it I enjoyed. A cool bump, a grat nearfall....Aries' offence probably had something good as well but that's it really. Not how you do a big man (which doesn't even legitimately look like) vs little man match in my book.


----------



## Chismo

Nervosa said:


> I mean, I'm not saying it doesn't work as a character, and when most of his matches are meaningless 8 minutes brawls, who cares if he gives up control?
> 
> Its only when a match has really built up a cool story that taking a time out to go argue with the guy TNA wants us to pretend isn't Abyss that it really bothers me. They were kinda playing up that Bully was becoming legitimately scared of Aries after he kept getting up from the strikes. If I am to believe that Bully really thinks Aries is crazy and he is worried about him, I can't see him going to the outside just because Park is yelling about the chain. It seems more likely to me that Bully would say 'F*ck Joe Park' and just do what he wanted to do, especially if they wanted to build up that Bully was becoming legitimately scared of Aries' toughness.
> 
> I guess it just seems so unnecessary to take a little timeout from the match for some empty storyline advancement with a separate feud.


You're looking at things wrong way, man. You're taking the _"wrestler A needed to do this, and wrestler B made a mistake after that"_ route, instead of coping with what you got. 



enlightenedone9 said:


> *Jigsaw vs. Eddie Kingston(Chikara’s Aniversario:The Ogg and I):*****
> 
> *Sara Del Rey vs. Eddie Kingston(Chikara’s The Great Escape):****1/2*


Yes! King/Jigsaw was bloody awesome, and I need to re-watch it now.

Kins/Sara, sheeeeeit, I have it downloaded, but didn't catch it yet.


----------



## Zatiel

Hailsabin said:


> All Joe Park did was yell at the ref that Bully has the chain. Didn't do much to hurt the match.
> 
> Fail to see how it's generic. Probably because it didn't have enough MOVEZ in it. Only fantastic storytelling.


I'm tempted to be as dismissive as you are here and question your sentence comprehension, given that I explained why it was generic in that post. But that wouldn't help convince you, just as you didn't contribute to conversation with this post. Let me be clearer.

How is it generic? Because it followed a structure that is done in television matches in multiple companies every week. Sympathy-Guy shows fire, gets beat up by Mean-Guy, makes big comeback and wins. It did nothing new and was deathly predictable. They did not have original counters or study each other for cut-offs; they did not have any deviation from a standard match-story that is the hallmark of better matches. Of course this beating was just setting up Aries's comeback - if anything, the Park stuff was just a further excuse for it that made it more obvious. 

Watch Turning Point tonight and you're guaranteed to see the same story with the same lack of nuance in at least one match; same on Raw, Impact and Smackdown. The difference is some of these matches won't have the quality of devoted personality, which is the only thing that set this apart.

You're welcome to explain what you saw as "fantastic" in this match - I'm guessing better than average emoting from Aries and Ray, or through Aries's bumping and selling?


----------



## Chismo

And what's wrong with that? Smh...


----------



## ywall2breakerj

JoeRulz said:


> And what's wrong with that? Smh...


For some people, having a "story" isn't enough. Anyone with a brain can accomplish that- it's how you execute it that matters. Cena vs Punk from NOC followed the same pattern a million matches before did and it still felt new, fresh and great. The narrative of the match is nowhere near important as the actual content of it. You can build a great match arround a narrative, but a narrative itself doesn't make a match great. These days "that match is great because they told a great story" is often just an excuse for people not being able to come up with actual reasoning why they like something. Anyone can attach a story to a match. An average match without any notable transitions, counters, selling, bumping, matwork, spots, drama and all other ingredients needed to reach pro wrestling greatness doesn't become great all of a sudden becose of it's narrative, in my opinion, that is. It just comes down to how you view pro wrestling.


----------



## Zatiel

JoeRulz said:


> And what's wrong with that? Smh...


I don't know if you were responding to me, Joe, but if so - it didn't make it a bad match, aside from where it was extremely predictable in the one thing it was doing and thus not successfully dramatic. It's a passable match with good performances. But that's all it was in both of my viewings. It's not even close to MOTYC-stuff, which is what this thread is about.


----------



## Obfuscation

Zatiel said:


> I'm tempted to be as dismissive as you are here and question your sentence comprehension, given that I explained why it was generic in that post. But that wouldn't help convince you, just as you didn't contribute to conversation with this post. Let me be clearer.
> 
> How is it generic? Because it followed a structure that is done in television matches in multiple companies every week. Sympathy-Guy shows fire, gets beat up by Mean-Guy, makes big comeback and wins. It did nothing new and was deathly predictable. They did not have original counters or study each other for cut-offs; they did not have any deviation from a standard match-story that is the hallmark of better matches. Of course this beating was just setting up Aries's comeback - if anything, the Park stuff was just a further excuse for it that made it more obvious.
> 
> Watch Turning Point tonight and you're guaranteed to see the same story with the same lack of nuance in at least one match; same on Raw, Impact and Smackdown. The difference is some of these matches won't have the quality of devoted personality, which is the only thing that set this apart.
> 
> You're welcome to explain what you saw as "fantastic" in this match - I'm guessing better than average emoting from Aries and Ray, or through Aries's bumping and selling?




Hailsabin said:


> *Sacrifice 2012*:
> 
> Bully Ray vs Austin Aries ~ ****1/2​
> 
> Pure magic. This match is what I really love about Pro Wrestling. 100% story driven. Based all behind the depth of the characters and what they're about. I'm really a guy who prefers a match to be chalk full of story over a match filled with 10,001 moves or "pure wrestling" only. (I don't think that is such an obvious statement either. Some would prefer Bret Hart matches over this. I digress...) There is so much more substance. These guys didn't even empty out their arsenal, yet it was a complete match. That's talent. Bell rings and I swear to you, I had a smile on my face. It legit stayed there the entire match. How often does that happen? I'm serious. How often does a match, solely on build and video package alone, make you smile just in anticipation? I really can't remember. I think back at the first Chikara iPPV. Which is fitting since this match really reminded me why I loved Eddie Kingston vs Mike Quackenbush on that night. Very similar contests. Both matches were so wonderfully constructed that when you try and dissect it, you really start to notice there weren't a whole bunch of pointless phases. EVERYTHING mattered. You hear that Davey Richards? Or ROH in general. I'm gonna branch off into another point as to why I loved this match: Upon discussing the state of Indie wrestling atm, it's been said that all of the leaders are gone. Guys like Joe, Danielson, Nigel, & Punk to really lead and help some newer guys work matches like this. Aries was one of them too. And while he's VERY experienced, he worked vs a guy here in Bully who was able to elevate him to an even HIGHER level. That's phenomenal. I can use about 500 more adjectives to describe that, but phenomenal works. We need more of this all over the world of wrestling. Instead of often seen pointless bs by guys who can't do control phases or make them interesting. K, back to the match. Anyways...time to lose all semblance of decorum and say that this match _fuckin ruled_. It really did. Even when Bully kicks Aries off the top rope it DESTROYS him. Aries got up with massive bruises and cuts on his back. Bully = LEGIT.
> 
> Yep. I'm on board in calling this the TNA MOTY so far. And easily one of TNA's best overall matches.



My write up on the match and why I loved it.

Can't say I agree with the reasoning on why you thought it was "generic". So because there weren't a mega-ton of counters in the finishing stretch it hurt the match? I recall Bully countering Aries off the ropes while trying to rebuild his momentum and turn it into a pop-up Bully Cutter. That felt like an original counter to me. Don't see how it wasn't. What matches classify as GREAT in your book if impeccable selling and storytelling doesn't work for you? Or I'd like to hear a match this year that can make this match look decent by comparison. (seriously, I'm asking as I'm curious. unless you list Brock vs Cena.)

Not to mention you're tearing down the boundaries of wrestling 101. Face starts out hot, effective heel beatdown, subsequent face return to win. If it's done wonderfully, then I fail to see the fault in that. That's just me. Obviously we're on different wavelengths here.

oh and the only TV match this year I can think that relates to a match like this is Punk vs Henry from 4/2. Another match where it took an otherwise simple story and made a grand affair out of it.

I get your point for thinking it's a common match type. I simply thought these guys made it work to a REALLY strong level.


----------



## Bubz

I agree, don't like it quite as much as you but I don't see how it's generic, especially by TNA's standards because they usually have a specific match structure they stick to and it's not normally what Aries and Bully did.


----------



## Obfuscation

Look at Aries' dossier during the year. Virtually every match is different. It's great. Match vs Bully was a drop in the bucket as far as giving us something new. That one was his overall best of the year (so far), imo.


----------



## Nervosa

I'll agree that its Aries' best match this year, and also TNA's best match, I just still think it was just ok. I didn't think it was really that generic or formulaic, except for the Park stuff as a shortcut to a comeback and to shoehorn an outside feud into the match that didn't need to be there. You skip the park stuff and give Aries a real, quality comeback, and its probably a top MOTY for me.

If it helps, the ending, for me is the most important part of the match. A close second is the comeback. If either of those are dicked with, it really bothers me. and maybe it bothers me more than it should, but those two things are just too big of a deal to me.


----------



## Obfuscation

No worries. You admit your gripes with a finish not being to your liking. I'm like that with some matches I've seen before. I loved it. You thought it was ok. That's really all we can discuss now. I was more or less perplexed on the other guy labeling it as "generic" though.


----------



## Nervosa

I kinda see his point with TNA doing similar things a lot, but this was just different enough for it not to bother me in that regard. At the time I honestly never expected Aries to go over, which made it far from generic for me.


----------



## Bubz

Hardy is a fucking nutcase, that's all I have to say right now after that ladder match.


----------



## Obfuscation

Here we thought Generico/Steen was gonna be the most dangerous match of the year.


----------



## Bubz

Yeah, seriously that match had some absolutely ridiculous stuff in it. I still hate Hardy, but fuck he deserves some sort of recognition for fucking killing himself in a wrestling ring. Jesus. Aries did some nutty stuff too and was the best thing about the match (as usual), but props where props are due.


----------



## Rickey

Hailsabin said:


> Here we thought Generico/Steen was gonna be the most dangerous match of the year.


Hope they have better ladders, same for the TLC ppv coming up. I hate when wrestlers have to work around things like broken/offset ladders. You know they're trying to have a good match but it feels awkward because they're also not trying to fall due to the ladders being shoddy.


----------



## Bubz

Yeah the ladders being shit wasn't good, but hey, at least it made the slow climbing thing seem justified .


----------



## Obfuscation

That's the risk with matches of that nature. First time in TNA I can recall a match, especially a ladder match, that came off as THAT hazardous. I'm gonna rewatch via a download to view with better picture, but damn. I still can't believe that match.


----------



## Rickey

Bubz said:


> Yeah the ladders being shit wasn't good, but hey, at least it made the slow climbing thing seem justified .


Haha true. Funny how the silver looking ladder at the end was the most sturdy looking one. Anyway yeah it must be tough on the wrestlers having to deal with ladders like that, it's the same with tables too. Sometimes they'll break too easily or not at all(Japanese table), it kinda throws me outta the match but I know the guys in the ring are trying to make it work.


----------



## Ali Dia

The ladders were really that bad? Was it because the ladders took damage throughout the match or were they just cheapshit ladders


----------



## Obfuscation

I was literally going to mention Japanese table after seeing you brought up tables :lmao

It's those ladder matches on the indies that really scare me. You never know what they'll do during and the ladders aren't always the most sturdy/safest. (yeah, but what ladders are really "safe" to use in a match though?) Steen Wolf ladder & various ones in CZW come to mind as very dangerous. I need to see how the ladder match from tonight goes after a rewatch. I'm far too surprised by Jeff killing himself to even look at it from a "fan rating" standpoint.


----------



## Rickey

R.Scorpio said:


> The ladders were really that bad? Was it because the ladders took damage throughout the match or were they just cheapshit ladders


The black ladder took bumps and they bent to the point where when they were set up they kinda tilted. So if you were climbing your weight would noticeable shift to the way it tilted.



Hailsabin said:


> I was literally going to mention Japanese table after seeing you brought up tables :lmao
> 
> It's those ladder matches on the indies that really scare me. You never know what they'll do during and the ladders aren't always the most sturdy/safest. (yeah, but what ladders are really "safe" to use in a match though?) Steen Wolf ladder & various ones in CZW come to mind as very dangerous. I need to see how the ladder match from tonight goes after a rewatch. I'm far too surprised by Jeff killing himself to even look at it from a "fan rating" standpoint.


Those Japanese tables are extra strong! :agree:

But yeah man I don't think there's ever been a sturdy enough ladder besides that one Big Show used in a MITB match before. All ladder match seem to feature the ladder shaking, off balance or at worst bending to the point where you can hardly climb it. It can be scary, I was hoping the two referrers standing at ringside would notice the wobbling ladder and run in to help keep it steady. It might have been 'lame' but it would have been a little safer. Glad nobody took a spill they weren't meaning to take though, could have been...deadly.

Imagine how scary it is to climb something that's wobbling underneath you, terrifying. I really hope the ladders at TLC and Final Battle are in good shape.


----------



## Obfuscation

That's why you see refs sometime post by ladders. The cameras usually do a good job at not showing them hold onto them to maintain balance for the wrestlers to jump off. Someone might claim that suspends belief, but I don't mind. Have you ever tried to jump off a ladder? Even on steady ground that feat isn't exactly easy to do when the ladder flies out from under you.


----------



## Rickey

Hailsabin said:


> That's why you see refs sometime post by ladders. The cameras usually do a good job at not showing them hold onto them to maintain balance for the wrestlers to jump off. Someone might claim that suspends belief, but I don't mind. Have you ever tried to jump off a ladder? Even on steady ground that feat isn't exactly easy to do when the ladder flies out from under you.


Yeah I think I'd rather them help the guys out a little rather than just standing there looking at the guys kinda struggling to make it up the ladder.

Never tried jumping from a ladder  but yeah the fact that it kinda slides away sometimes when guys get pushed or jump is scary. I think it slid away from Hardy on Impact when Aries pushed him off. Imagine landing on your head from that height :shocked:


----------



## Obfuscation

It's logical. I wouldn't say it is a plot hole in the business either. Wrestlers wanting a ref to hold the ladders seems legit. Can't see a scenario where it wouldn't be good, unless you're a wild character like Sabu or something. Or unless you're nuts like Jeff Hardy and simply say "fuck it" and jump.

Some wild times as an impressionable youth I have with a ladder. I channeled Jeff I suppose. 

The fall on Impact was even pretty crazy. Completely went out from under him. That should have been a sign for tonight.


----------



## Rickey

Hailsabin said:


> It's logical. I wouldn't say it is a plot hole in the business either. Wrestlers wanting a ref to hold the ladders seems legit. Can't see a scenario where it wouldn't be good, unless you're a wild character like Sabu or something. Or unless you're nuts like Jeff Hardy and simply say "fuck it" and jump.
> 
> Some wild times as an impressionable youth I have with a ladder. I channeled Jeff I suppose.
> 
> The fall on Impact was even pretty crazy. Completely went out from under him. That should have been a sign for tonight.


It is logical especially when it comes to the safety of the guy climbing.

You channeling Hardy huh? Haha. About your last sentence, true. I knew Hardy would go all out in the match, glad he doesn't do that all the time though because some of those spots were just...ridiculous(I've seen worst but still). Both guys will be sore tomorrow.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

AJ Styles vs. Bobby Roode vs. James Storm (11/11/2012)- ***3/4
Jeff Hardy vs. Austin Aries (11/11/2012)- ****1/4

Another strong outing from TNA yet again, though I will admit that I'm" getting burnt out on Ladder Matches it seems like every promotion is using it this year.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Agree with you about the 3-Way but I thought Aries vs Hardy was ***1/2. Loved the CHOAS feeling during the match and the broken ladders actaully helped, but some of Hardy's strange no-selling moments were probaly the reason I didn't gave it higher rating..


----------



## Matt_Yoda

EmbassyForever said:


> Agree with you about the 3-Way but I thought Aries vs Hardy was ***1/2. Loved the CHOAS feeling during the match and the broken ladders actaully helped, but some of Hardy's strange no-selling moments were probaly the reason I didn't gave it higher rating..


Yeah I could definitely understand why you wouldn't look past that, especially considering that he took the brunt of the bumps during the match. I guess for me the chaotic nature of the match and what they were trying to accomplish with it really bumped it up for me.


----------



## Last Chancery

Hailsabin said:


> It's logical. I wouldn't say it is a plot hole in the business either. Wrestlers wanting a ref to hold the ladders seems legit. Can't see a scenario where it wouldn't be good, unless you're a wild character like Sabu or something. Or unless you're nuts like Jeff Hardy and simply say "fuck it" and jump.
> 
> Some wild times as an impressionable youth I have with a ladder. I channeled Jeff I suppose.
> 
> The fall on Impact was even pretty crazy. Completely went out from under him. That should have been a sign for tonight.


It's also a ref's responsibility to make sure nobody dies during the match they're presiding over.


----------



## Obfuscation

Ladder topped the 3 way for me at Turning Point. 3 way didn't click for me. Idk what it is. Felt solid at best, but should have been more with who was involved.


----------



## djmathers1207

Aries/Hardy had a good ladder match and it was better than their match last month


----------



## seabs

*Karl Anderson vs Shelton Benjamin - NJPW 05.08.2012*
_Yeah I'm seriously nominating a Shelton Benjamin in here. Conclusion? Anderson + New Japan is a winning formula for sub 10 minute matches. Benjamin's good in it tbf actually. Hits his stuff well and doesn't drag the pace down. Anderson is brilliant once again. Kinda funny how people were worried how he might progress this year after Bernard left. One's main eventing Ryoguku and the other is main eventing Superstars. Wrestling is a funny business. Anderson's totally got this sub 10 minute sprint type match nailed down to a tee._

******

*Toru Yano vs Minoru Suzuki - NJPW 05.08.2012*
_Is there anyone as consistently entertaining as Yano in 2012? Seriously. Dude delivers everytime. Isn't a technical masterpiece but he doesn't try to be. He has his shtick and he works it perfectly. Really there was no way this match wasn't gonna be good in a New Japan midcard but even with my expectations they raised the bar that bit further. For those who watched the Yano/Marufuji match from G1 and wanted someone that didn't suck working that match with Yano well this is it. Yano's in full on troll mode and MiSu aint taking none of it. Yano's reaction when Suzuki first goes for the arm is amazing and sets up him cowering away from Suzuki at every opening Suzuki has. Totally works with Suzuki's background too as he's credible as a guy who will kill a guy like Yano in a wrestling ring. The count out near fall absolutely ruled. That's the type of spot I want in my wrestling, not Davey Richards kicking someone in the head 20 times to get a near fall. I much prefer Yano having his own dastardly deeds turned around on him to produce a near fall. Finish reflects the match perfectly along with the reactions. Another great reference for Suzuki being sleeper WOTY in New Japan too. 8 minutes of literally everything I want from a midcard match. Minute for minute maybe my favourite match of the year._

******

*Kazuchika Okada vs Shinsuke Nakamura - NJPW 05.08.2012*
_I think everyone knew this was probably gonna be really good and alas it was. It's another example of a hot New Japan finishing stretch taking a good match and turning it into a great match. They're the fucking best. Full of counters until one guy finally hits his finisher and does what it says on the label, finishes it. Some neat character work in there too. Loved Nakamura's reaction to punking Okada out at the start and Okada receipts it later on in equally great fashion. I really hope Okada gets a long title run in 2013 because New Japan needs fresh main events after giving Tanahashi another year on top and having to resort to weaker opponents to keep his matches fresh like Tanaka, Marufuji and Yujiro. These 2 will probably main event a show next year and it'll be awesome. If Okada gets that long title run next year then you may as well hand him WOTY straight away because there's no way he wont deliver main eventing with guys like Tanahashi, Naito, Nakamura, Anderson and Nagata all year._

******


----------



## Chismo

> Is there anyone as consistently entertaining as Yano in 2012? Seriously.


Archibald Peck, Mr. Touchdown, Icarus and the Young Bucks. And I'm glad someone finally recognizes Yano's awesomeness.


----------



## djmathers1207

KOT Night 3

Manami Toyota & partner I don't know the name of vs. woman I don't know & Commando Bolshoi ****-****1/2
Team ROH vs. Spectral Envoy ****1/4


----------



## Chismo

Yeah, the Joshi tag from Night 3 rocked. ****


----------



## Bubz

Anyone seen Go/Nagata from this month in NOAH? Also Funaki vs Suwama and vs Omori? Just interested in those but wondering whether to waste my time because I've seen nobody say anything about them.


----------



## seabs

*Only seen Funaki/Suwama of them 3. It's good but not great. Got pimped as Puro MOTY at other places though. It's worth your time if you have it I guess.*


----------



## thearmofbarlow

djmathers1207 said:


> KOT Night 3
> 
> Manami Toyota & partner I don't know the name of vs. woman I don't know & Commando Bolshoi ****-****1/2
> Team ROH vs. Spectral Envoy ****1/4


I actually thought Team ROH vs SENDAI Girls was a better match. Then again I may be biased in favor of tiny Japanese chicks... every match of KOT was pretty damn good though.


----------



## Chismo

I hated the Finals, though, the moment where UMB superplexes Matt onto like 545 guys waiting ringside ruined the joys for this viewer.


----------



## Obfuscation

*NJPW Dominion 6/16 *- _IWGP World Championship_
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada(c) ~ ****1/2

Too tired to write up a review so I'll sum it up like this: :mark:

The beauty of a smiley.


----------



## Bubz

2nd best match of the year for me.


----------



## EmbassyForever

What's the best?


----------



## FITZ

JoeRulz said:


> I hated the Finals, though, the moment where UMB superplexes Matt onto like 545 guys waiting ringside ruined the joys for this viewer.


I loved the spot. I think it was my view point that made me not realize it was coming. I was sitting in the second row on the opposite side of the ring so I wasn't really looking at all the guys that were standing under them. I was just watching the two guys on the top rope. The camera work should have been better to hide everyone waiting on the floor. 

Even if you hated that spot you have to admit that the rest of the match was really good. Delirious showing up was really surpsiring as was the Cross Bones appearances, I loved how the crowd just seemed to deflate when they showed up because we all assumed that ROH was going to win Delirious and company got involved. Chikara winning is pretty close to the top of the list for the happiest I've felt while watching a match all year (I think Rock beating Cena at Mania still has that beat).


----------



## Chismo

Nah, I hated it. I hate when it happens in ROH, PWG, DGUSA, CHIKARA, it doesn't matter. It ruins matches. I just can't suspense my disbelief that much. Way too fake.

But yeah, the rest of the match was really good, the Envoy guys finally overcoming the odds was great moment and feel-good moment. The best moment was Maria getting superkicked right in the mug, lol.


----------



## Concrete

That spot literally happened right in front of me and I was too busy looking at the guys in front of me so I didn't know the suplex was really coming.And now two cases for my Chikara DVDs are slightly busted and I will forever remember that spot because of it.


----------



## FITZ

JoeRulz said:


> Nah, I hated it. I hate when it happens in ROH, PWG, DGUSA, CHIKARA, it doesn't matter. It ruins matches. I just can't suspense my disbelief that much. Way too fake.
> 
> But yeah, the rest of the match was really good, the Envoy guys finally overcoming the odds was great moment and feel-good moment. The best moment was Maria getting superkicked right in the mug, lol.


Maria getting kicked in the face was a pretty great moment. When she interfered I really thought that the Envoy was done for so her getting kicked in the face was great both for just seeing her get kicked in the face and for the fact that it gave me hope for the Envoy again. 



enlightenedone9 said:


> That spot literally happened right in front of me and I was too busy looking at the guys in front of me so I didn't know the suplex was really coming.And now two cases for my Chikara DVDs are slightly busted and I will forever remember that spot because of it.


I didn't have anything damaged during the spots to the outside. I did narrowly avoid having either Kobald or Ophidian thrown on top of me. Thankfully Mantis was nice enough to yell, move, and give me maybe 2 seconds to get out of the way before throwing someone onto my chair.


----------



## Bubz

EmbassyForever said:


> What's the best?


Okada/Naito


----------



## Kid Kamikaze10

Whoa, you saw the 8/5/12 show?


----------



## Obfuscation

Tanahashi vs Suzuki (King of Pro Wrestling)
Okada vs Naito
Tanahashi vs Okada II

My top 3 Puro matches of the year, so far.


----------



## Bubz

Yep, those are mine too. And probably top 3 overall as well tbh. Maybe throw Cena/Brock up there with them.

Basically...New Japan fucking owns.


----------



## Obfuscation

Yeah, I got to have Cena/Brock in there. Toss in maybe something with CM Punk and that's my top 5.

New Japan has been the top promotion for me this year. Continues to be amazing.


----------



## Kid Kamikaze10

About NJPW G1 Climax Night 4 (8/5/12)

Out of all the matches, the three MOTYCs were as Seab said, Shelton/Anderson, Yano/Suzuki, and Okada/Nakamura. Which is funny, because two of these matches were heel vs heel, a so called no-no in promotions like WWE.

I was REALLY surprised by Shelton/Anderson. It was such a quick match, but fun one nonetheless. It even told a story, one that definitely benefited both wrestlers even if one ultimately won. It made Shelton look like a athletic beast, and Anderson a underdog with a very dangerous weapon. The ending caught me by surprise because you don't see spots like that very often in NJPW, but it's been done plenty of times in WWE. But the difference in how NJPW did it was that it wasn't just a cool moment; it was also a "snatching victory from the jaws of defeat" moment. It fit the story to a tee. So yeah, it didn't set the world on fire, but I'd recommend it. Definitely a four star.


Yano Toru vs Minoru Suzuki was just plain awesome. Part of the remarkable thing about this match and Nakamura/Okada is that it was a heel vs heel match. Yes, Japanese fans don't cater to the whole face/heel dynamic as much as Western fans do, and they were siding with Yano throughout, but still, both wrestlers played up their character specific heel antics throughout this match. Yano was trolling hard, Suzuki aimed to make him pay big time. There were so many hilarious and great moments in this match from beginning to end. The near count-out (a serious taste of your own medicine moment), Yano apologizing, and of course, the reactions to the ending. This match was definitely a highlight of the G1 Climax tourney, and is well worth watching.


And then there was the battle for CHAOS supremacy. Ok, not yet, but it will happen next year IMO. Nakamura vs Okada was expected to be fantastic. And it was, for the reasons I expected. The character quirks, the tension (even though they are in the same stable), the one-upmanship, and of course, the finishing stretch. It was Nakamura being Nakamura, and Okada being Okada. I wouldn't want it any other way. 


Out of these three, bias aside, I think Yano/Suzuki was the best match.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Where everyone watched the 8/5/2012 show? You all bought it from IVP?


----------



## Yeah1993

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SuOcT2jXt8

edit- this it? IDK. Might not be.


----------



## Kid Kamikaze10

Yeah1993 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SuOcT2jXt8



Oops, looks like I made a mistake. It was Day 4, not 5.


----------



## Obfuscation

So it's non-existent to find even though some managed to get their hands on it?

I _have _to see Nakamura vs Okada. Like now.


----------



## Kid Kamikaze10

Hailsabin said:


> So it's non-existent to find even though some managed to get their hands on it?
> 
> I _have _to see Nakamura vs Okada. Like now.


Seabs posted it in the multimedia section.


----------



## Obfuscation

Hot damn. (Y) @ the heads up.


----------



## seabs

*Stixx vs Mark Haskins - No DQ - SWE Championship - SWE Retribution*
_There's a lot to like about this but I thought it wasn't quite fine tuned enough to give it MOTYC Status but it's still really good. SWE have a us vs them feud going on. Pretty generic stuff but it made this match feel really significant. Pretty sure they put plants in the crowd to go crazy for the two sides but it added a lot because it gave it a great heated atmosphere and got the rest of the crowd alive because they were poor for the rest of the show. Both guys take some great bumps and they do some really great near falls. They overbook it to hell but overbooked finishes are generally fun and this was. The finish they did coming off everything they did was poor though and I always hate how it takes the babyface team forever to come out and stop their guy being attacked by the entire of the other group. Really fun though and they managed to fill up 30 minutes really well. Recommend it. There's a really good Sabre vs Scurll match on the card too that's just lacking a bit of heat and edge to be at the level for this thread._


----------



## blink_41sum_182

Dragon Gate - Freedom Fight 2012 - Johnny Gargano (c) vs. Akira Tozawa vs. AR Fox vs. Ricochet - **** 1/2

Awesome match.


----------



## Groovemachine

Just seen the Hardy/Aries Ladder match, I actually much preferred their match last month at Bound for Glory. The Ladder spots were pretty crazy, but the BFG match had a much better structure. And even with Aries' big fall out of the ring, the end of the Ladder match seemed somewhat anticlimactic to me. Still a good match, but I'd go ***3/4 as opposed to the **** I rated the BFG encounter.


----------



## Obfuscation

It's a fun match that I enjoyed. Wouldn't make my MOTYC list, but its something I can say that falls into my fun pile. I have it at ***. 

That fall Jeff takes from when Aries came outside and quickly knocked the ladder out is absurd.


----------



## Scavo

My MOTYC list of TNA and PWG:


*TNA*

1. James Storm vs. Bobby Roode (BFG Street Fight) *****1/2*
Bully Ray vs. Austin Aries (Sacrifice) *****1/2*

3. Austin Aries vs. Jeff Hardy (BFG) *****1/4*
WTTCOTW vs. AJ Styles & Kurt Angle (Slammy X) *****1/4*
Bobby Roode vs. Austin Aries (Destination X) *****1/4*

Since I'm making a Top 5, honorable mentions go to these three matches as well: 

AJ Styles vs. Daniels (Last Man Standing) ******
Austin Aries vs. Jeff Hardy (Ladder Match) ******
Kurt Angle vs. Jeff Hardy (Victory Road) ******



*PWG*

1. The Young Bucks vs. Super Smash Bros vs. Future Shock (Threemendous III Ladder Match) *******
The Young Bucks vs. Super Smash Bros (Death To All But Metal No DQ Match) *******


3. Kevin Steen vs. Willie Mack (Threemendous III) *****1/4*
The Young Bucks & Brian Cage vs. Rick Knox, El Generico & Kevin Steen (BOLA Night 2) *****1/4*
Kevin Steen vs. Brian Cage (Death To All But Metal) *****1/4 *

Honorable mentions to these matches too:

El Generico vs. Ricochet (Death To All But Metal) ******
Adam Cole vs. Eddie Edwards (BOLA Night 2) ******
Kevin Steen vs. Ricochet (BOLA Night 1) ******
Michael Elgin vs. Ricochet (BOLA Night 2) ******
The Young Bucks vs. Super Smash Bros (DDT4)******
Future Shock vs. Super Smash Bros (DDT4) ******



WWE don't follow, ROH barely - so can't make the list for those two companies. Puroresu list is coming soon.


----------



## blink_41sum_182

Groovemachine said:


> Just seen the Hardy/Aries Ladder match, I actually much preferred their match last month at Bound for Glory. The Ladder spots were pretty crazy, but the BFG match had a much better structure. And even with Aries' big fall out of the ring, the end of the Ladder match seemed somewhat anticlimactic to me. Still a good match, but I'd go ***3/4 as opposed to the **** I rated the BFG encounter.


Agreed


----------



## ROHWashingtonstate

I know he only wrestles in ROH, but if there is anyone who deserves an award for being involved in the match of the year it would have to be Michael Elgin hands down. Hiroshi Tanahashi is the only other person I would remotely consider.


----------



## Bubz

So...you're saying Elgin is wrestler of the year?


----------



## FITZ

ROHWashingtonstate said:


> I know he only wrestles in ROH, but if there is anyone who deserves an award for being involved in the match of the year it would have to be Michael Elgin hands down. Hiroshi Tanahashi is the only other person I would remotely consider.


Two things.

1. Elgin wrestles or places aside from ROH
2. I wouldn't put him anywhere near the top of my list for Wrestler of the Year.


----------



## Concrete

ROHWashingtonstate said:


> I know he only wrestles in ROH, but if there is anyone who deserves an award for being involved in the match of the year it would have to be Michael Elgin hands down. Hiroshi Tanahashi is the only other person I would remotely consider.


Sir you have wandered into new territory. I would like to inform you of this before anyone pops up out of nowhere and things get crazy.

And as far as WOTY, I'm going to say no for Elgin. Even just for the independents I can't say I would agree. I've liked some of his matches but he is hit or miss with me.


----------



## Heterodox

My top five would look a little something like this:

NJPW 10/12 Hiroshi Tanashi vs Minoru Suzuki = 100%/*****
ROH 4/12 Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin = 100%/*****
ROH 10/12 Kevin Steen vs Michael Elgin = 96%/****3/4
CHIKARA 6/12 FIST vs Young Bucks = 90%/**** 1/2
WWE 4/12 Undertaker vs Triple H = 89%/**** 1/2

Currently catching up so expect this list to change. Lots of PWG, CHIKARA, and Puro to catch up on. About to watch pretty much Okadas entire title reign so I'd expect atleast a match to crack the top 5.


----------



## Heterodox

Has anyone seen Davey Richards vs Harry Smith for PWS back in January? Won't make the top of many MOTYC lists but an excellent showing from both men.

82%/****


----------



## EmbassyForever

I did, gave it 4* too. The show was really fun too, I enjoy watching PWS when they've good cards, their product is pretty good IMO.


----------



## seabs

*Kris Travis vs Dave Mastiff - PCW Guild Wars*
_Finally a great Mastiff match from 2012 :mark: Mastiff's a super fatty bulldozer that WWE so need to pick up. Or even just get a tour in Japan. He's so under utilised just working the UK Indy Scene for a guy with his size and his talent. Travis is a super babyface worker on top of being an amazing goofball heel with Kirby. Travis is great too. So you've got 2 great workers and they work a really well structured match. Wrestling is simple at times. Mastiff's a great bully in control of the loveable babyface and makes the control segment rule. They work a really nifty finishing stretch too. _

******

*Akira Tozawa vs El Ligero - PCW Guild Wars*
_Workrate match of the year for me so far. Ligero isn't very good at all but Tozawa is so bossy in this and they work a well structured workrate match. Finishing sequence is great and the near falls work a treat without ever feeling like they're kicking it out of stuff because that's the cool thing to do these days. _

*****1/4*


----------



## flag sabbath

Seabs said:


> *Kris Travis vs Dave Mastiff - PCW Guild Wars*
> _Finally a great Mastiff match from 2012 :mark: Mastiff's a super fatty bulldozer that WWE so need to pick up. Or even just get a tour in Japan. He's so under utilised just working the UK Indy Scene for a guy with his size and his talent. Travis is a super babyface worker on top of being an amazing goofball heel with Kirby. Travis is great too. So you've got 2 great workers and they work a really well structured match. Wrestling is simple at times. Mastiff's a great bully in control of the loveable babyface and makes the control segment rule. They work a really nifty finishing stretch too. _
> 
> ******
> 
> *Akira Tozawa vs El Ligero - PCW Guild Wars*
> _Workrate match of the year for me so far. Ligero isn't very good at all but Tozawa is so bossy in this and they work a well structured workrate match. Finishing sequence is great and the near falls work a treat without ever feeling like they're kicking it out of stuff because that's the cool thing to do these days. _
> 
> *****1/4*


Loving the PCW reviews - have you been to a show yet? Every card since Guild Wars has been really good & the atmosphere last weekend was rowdy as hell.

All their hype is focused on the December 'supershow' with Morrison, Masters, Eugene, Edwards & Elgin, but the January line-up already looks amazing: Travis vs. T-Bone Bullrope match (!), Kirby & Ligero vs. Young Bucks, and 'cruiserweight' Dave Rayne vs, Noam Dar.

It's totally bizarre having such an entertaining promotion appear on my doorstep.


----------



## seabs

*Nah I haven't been. If anyone I know went wrestling shows then I'd make the trip. The venue in Preston is like perfect for the shows they run. The next 2 shows do look great indeed. Great to see them adding some big names to their own talent too. Everyone needs more Dave Rayne in their life.*


----------



## Heterodox

Seabs said:


> *Kris Travis vs Dave Mastiff - PCW Guild Wars*
> _Finally a great Mastiff match from 2012 :mark: Mastiff's a super fatty bulldozer that WWE so need to pick up. Or even just get a tour in Japan. He's so under utilised just working the UK Indy Scene for a guy with his size and his talent. Travis is a super babyface worker on top of being an amazing goofball heel with Kirby. Travis is great too. So you've got 2 great workers and they work a really well structured match. Wrestling is simple at times. Mastiff's a great bully in control of the loveable babyface and makes the control segment rule. They work a really nifty finishing stretch too. _
> 
> ******
> 
> *Akira Tozawa vs El Ligero - PCW Guild Wars*
> _Workrate match of the year for me so far. Ligero isn't very good at all but Tozawa is so bossy in this and they work a well structured workrate match. Finishing sequence is great and the near falls work a treat without ever feeling like they're kicking it out of stuff because that's the cool thing to do these days. _
> 
> *****1/4*


Where could one find footage of these matches?


----------



## flag sabbath

Tozawa vs. Ligs in on youtube. Otherwise, go to www.prestoncitywrestling.com


----------



## Heterodox

Thanks! I will check out the Tozawa match and maybe post my thoughts on it after viewing.


----------



## Obfuscation

Michael Elgin as WOTY?

Wouldn't even come close to my list as a candidate.


----------



## Heterodox

Hailsabin said:


> Michael Elgin as WOTY?
> 
> Wouldn't even come close to my list as a candidate.


Absolutely he has to be in the discussion. Dude has come through time and time again and delivered big time performances. I literally just finished watching his BOLA match with Davey (**** 1/2 or 90%) and as great as that match was, he's had two this year that were better. He is currently in two of my top three MOTYs. The only person you could probably argue that would be ahead of him this year is Tanahashi. It would be insulting not to consider Elgin for WOTY.


----------



## Obfuscation

Hardly. The guy really isn't any good. So..yeah. Not on the list.


----------



## Heterodox

I think he's really good. But, different strokes for different folks.


----------



## Nervosa

Okada over both. Quite frankly, Okada, Nakamura, Tanahashi, Suzuki, Punk, and maybe even Tozawa all probably had better work than Elgin this year.


----------



## KingCrash

As many good matches Elgin's had he's had just as many bad/disappointing matches with guys like Haas, Finlay, Young and Willie Mack. Elgin just doesn't have the consistency to be a WOTY option this year.


----------



## Heterodox

I mean, the guy hasn't gone completely nuts and put on a MOTYC every time he's stepped in the ring but I do think its hard to ignore the fact he's been in arguably two of ROH's best matches all year. If not WOTY, he's GOT to be your breakout star of the year (Adam Cole maybe could give him a run for his money in that regard).

Anyways, Steen/Generico at FB pretty much guaranteed to crack the top 5? I'd say so. Wouldn't be surprised if they produce the third ***** this year.


----------



## Rickey

Enjoyed both Survivor Series Elimination Matches as well as Big Show vs. Sheamus.


----------



## Bubz

Elgin has been in one 'great' match this year, that's it. Everything else has ranged from ok to terrible.

Okada, Tanahashi and Punk are my top 3 right now.


----------



## Russian Hooligan

Michael Elgin>>>>>>>Tanahashi, Okada, Nakamura, Suzuki, Tozawa

Kenny Omega best wrestler in the world. Punk is terrible.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Heterodox said:


> Anyways, Steen/Generico at FB pretty much guaranteed to crack the top 5? I'd say so. Wouldn't be surprised if they produce the third ***** this year.


Meltzer has already given 3 matches 5* this year.



> Michael Elgin>>>>>>>Tanahashi, Okada, Nakamura, Suzuki, Tozawa
> 
> Kenny Omega best wrestler in the world. Punk is terrible.


A+ troll


----------



## Bubz

Russian Hooligan said:


> Michael Elgin>>>>>>>Tanahashi, Okada, Nakamura, Suzuki, Tozawa
> 
> Kenny Omega best wrestler in the world. Punk is terrible.


:lmao


----------



## Russian Hooligan

Punk is a botch machine.


----------



## Obfuscation

lolz. What just happened?


----------



## Heterodox

bigbuxxx said:


> Meltzer has already given 3 matches 5* this year.
> 
> A+ troll


What was the other besides Davey/Elgin and Tanahashi/Suzuki?


----------



## bigbuxxx

Okada/Naito in march.


----------



## xzeppelinfootx

Well Omega did have an awesome year...


----------



## Russian Hooligan

xzeppelinfootx said:


> Well Omega did have an awesome year...


----------



## Chismo

Elgin's having a great year, IMO, but I'm not sure I would put him in my WOTY Top 10 list. For America - yes, but overall - no. It's a damn shame some of his good performances were nixed by Davey's horrible intellection of wrestling.

Elgin's notable matches:

- Hero (Homecoming)
- few really good HoT tags
- Cole (Border Wars, 2 TV matches and another one from DVD)
- Mack (DTABM)
- Callihan (TIII)
- Ricochet and Cole (BOLA)
- Steen (GBH)

And I've seen a lot of people praise his AAW work, and his smaller Indys work as well.


----------



## Yeah1993

bigbuxxx said:


> Okada/Naito in march.


Nah he didn't give it 5.


----------



## Obfuscation

It's stellar regardless.


----------



## seabs

*I wouldn't even consider Elgin for my top 50 workers of 2012 if I made that thread for 2012 again (I might fyi). He really isn't very good. I guess if you like the current ROH style then I can see why someone would say he's their WOTY if they don't watch much non US wrestling. Fuck my top 10 wrestlers for 2012 would probably unintentionally bait so many people and/or leave them totally confused. Shit, Dean Allmark is still probably in my top 3 and I bet 90% of you still have never seen a Dean Allmark match. *

*Rey Mysterio, Sin Cara, Justin Gabriel, Tyson Kidd & Brodus Clay vs Primo, Epico, Darren Young, Titus O'Neil & Tensai - WWE Survivor Series 2012*
_Enjoyed this a lot. Probably alone in thinking it was MOTN though. The 8 tag guys had a super fun match on Raw last week and I was hoping they'd re-run that match on this show. This was basically a longer version of that with Brodus being terrible. None of the heels are particularly good at working control segments, in fact they suck at working control segments. Multiple fall matches are the saving grace for guys who can't work well structured matches though. Really liked how they worked a long control segment on the babyface team but kept freshening it up enough via an elimination or cutting off the hot tag to save the match from really dragging along with Young or Titus locking in a rest hold for 2 minutes and classing that as a heat segment. Babyface team minus Brodus are super runnin wild with their moveset. Finish ruled. Tons of fun. Definitely top 10 WWE match this year for me, probably have to check my list for what other WWE matches are on but maybe even top 5._

******


----------



## ywall2breakerj

I'm not a regular follower of PWG, but Elgin's ROH work has been mediocre to crappy. His best match was probably against Adam Cole when Cole was still a jobber and I'm not even sure that was this year.



> I might fyi


:mark:


----------



## Kid Kamikaze10

Could you recommend some Dean Allmark matches?


----------



## seabs

> Dean Allmark & James Mason vs Rampage Brown & Robbie Dynamite - ASW:UK 17.03.2012
> Dean Allmark vs Nathan Cruz - ASW:UK 24.03.2012
> Dean Allmark vs Johnny Storm - ASW:UK 01.06.2012


*Are the 3 best from this year that I have on my MOTYC Document. There's a Finlay tag that's great too. I haven't watched anything off his channel past the 1/6 show I don't think so I'm pretty behind now but up to then everything he posted from 2012 was at least very good. You should definitely watch the Allmark/Mason matches from 2011 as well. The Summer Series of matches was brilliant. I need to catch up on my youtube Indies like as of last week.*


----------



## Russian Hooligan

Seabs said:


> *I wouldn't even consider Elgin for my top 50 workers of 2012 if I made that thread for 2012 again (I might fyi).*



Petrosyan appreciated your joke.


----------



## Russian Hooligan

Seabs said:


> *Dean Allmark*


I looked on youtube his matches against Nathan Cruz, Rampage Brown, Johnny Storm and Stixx. This typical indy-sleaze-fest. 
Michael Elgin>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dean Allmark


----------



## Heterodox

:topic:


----------



## Violent By Design

Okada and Punk are the best wrestlers I've seen this year.


----------



## Bubz

Russian Hooligan said:


> I looked on youtube his matches against Nathan Cruz, Rampage Brown, Johnny Storm and Stixx. This typical indy-sleaze-fest.
> Michael Elgin>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dean Allmark


LOL you call Dean Allmark a typical indy sleazefest yet you're a Michael Elgin fan? Fucking good one.

Probably just a troll but pardon me, I had to laugh at that.


----------



## Nervosa

This thread has too much pretending Michael Elgin is good.....

And not nearly enough NAKAMURA VS. SAKURABA 1/4 WRESTLE KINGDOM FLIP THE F*CK OUT WITH JOY!


----------



## Heterodox

Yeah, Wrestle Kingdom looks STACKED. Sooo stoked for Tanahashi/Okada 3 & Ki/Ibushi/Devitt.


----------



## Kid Kamikaze10

Nervosa said:


> This thread has too much pretending Michael Elgin is good.....
> 
> And not nearly enough NAKAMURA VS. SAKURABA 1/4 WRESTLE KINGDOM FLIP THE F*CK OUT WITH JOY!


I personally wanted Nakamura/Shibata, but nonetheless, I can't wait for that match too.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Bubz said:


> LOL you call Dean Allmark a typical indy sleazefest yet you're a Michael Elgin fan? Fucking good one.
> 
> Probably just a troll but pardon me, I had to laugh at that.


Why is he a troll? because his opinion is diffrent than yours?

Jesus..


----------



## Obfuscation

It's b/c the poster is obviously trolling in this thread.


----------



## KingCrash

EmbassyForever said:


> Why is he a troll? because his opinion is diffrent than yours?
> 
> Jesus..


Well there is a difference between debating the issue and then going "Punk botches; Elgin>>>>>>>>" and leaving it at that.


----------



## Russian Hooligan

I'm not a troll. Stop calling me that. Let's observe the limits of decency. Sorry guys, I speak English bad. Seriously.


----------



## EmbassyForever

I know lots of people who thinks that Elgin is WOTY and I heard some of them saying he's THE BEST IN THE WORLD right now (and they're watching puro too if that's matter). It's not like he came out of nowhere and said "Robbie T is better than your indies nerds and puro strong-style bullshit"..


----------



## MTheBehemoth

EmbassyForever said:


> I know lots of people who thinks that Elgin is WOTY and I heard some of them saying he's THE BEST IN THE WORLD right now (and they're watching puro too if that's matter). It's not like he came out of nowhere and said "Robbie T is better than your indies nerds and puro strong-style bullshit"..


What kind of retarded puro fan is that? Okada, for example, puts on good-great-amazing matches *consistently*. While some of Elgin's matches were the weakest on the card (like his match with Haas).


----------



## EmbassyForever

I personally thinks that Tanahashi is the wrestler of the year and in the world to be honest.


----------



## Bubz

EmbassyForever said:


> Why is he a troll? because his opinion is diffrent than yours?
> 
> Jesus..


Did you read the comment he posted? Jesus..


----------



## topper1

EmbassyForever said:


> I know lots of people who thinks that Elgin is WOTY and I heard some of them saying he's THE BEST IN THE WORLD right now


Guess you know a lot of brainless trolls.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

Well I'm" not going to knock someone for having Elgin's vote. Dude has entertained the hell out of me this year and put on some excellent matches. Next to O'Reilly, Davey, Eddie, Roddy, etc. He is one of my favorite guys in ROH. On the US Indy scene I'd probably only put Gargano and Callihan ahead of him.


----------



## Ali Dia

Turning Point : Jeff Hardy vs. Austin Aries ****+

Thought this was great. Some of the spots in this were pretty insane as well as being spots I haven't seen before. I also felt that this had that chaotic feeling a ladder match should have. Sometimes ladder matches feel too choreographed to the point where they dont appear risky at all. Attempting to climb defective ladders, realising you need to change them, and also giving a reason for slow climbing as you really needed to be careful. So many memorable spots the japanese armdrag into the ladder and the final spot before the end were awesome. Whilst it lacked a pure story, both guys got over their characters in the match, Aries heel work was especially awesome.


----------



## Cactus

*Low Ki © vs. Prince Devitt - IWGP Junior Heavyweight Title Match - NJPW Power Struggle 11/11/12*
These guys have awesome chemistry together. Those who loved their match back in May won't be disappointed here. It's at a much quicker speed and features many comeback spots relating to their last match. Ki's schtick really entertains me, and I'm no fan of Devitt but he really did well here. It goes a bit over-the-top at the end, but with the great brawling and a great ending that leaves the door open to another rematch, I'm not complaining.
*★★★★*


----------



## septurum

Monday Night Raw (11-19-12)

Wade Barrett vs Kofi Kingston- *** 1/4

Randy Orton vs Alberto Del Rio- *** 1/2

Sheamus vs Damien Sandow- ***


----------



## topper1

septurum said:


> Monday Night Raw (11-19-12)
> 
> Wade Barrett vs Kofi Kingston- *** 1/4
> 
> Randy Orton vs Alberto Del Rio- *** 1/2
> 
> Sheamus vs Damien Sandow- ***


I don't normally call people out for this but come on man surely there is a raw rating thread in the raw topics or something.


----------



## MTheBehemoth

septurum said:


> Monday Night Raw (11-19-12)
> 
> Wade Barrett vs Kofi Kingston- *** 1/4
> 
> Randy Orton vs Alberto Del Rio- *** 1/2
> 
> Sheamus vs Damien Sandow- ***


Just... no.


----------



## Obfuscation

Only one I can remotely agree with is Sheamus vs Sandow. Still, don't see how those qualify as MOTYC for the thread.

Can't wait to see Ki vs Devitt + the whole of Power Struggle. Was gonna watch it yesterday, but as things go. Life gets busy and you lose time. Hope to jump on it ASAP. Should have some new additions to my list after it.


----------



## septurum

Since when did everything in here have to be puro or indies? Oh, and look up the words "opinion" and "entitled" in the dictionary please. I just thought I would mention those 3 matches in here. Not saying they are MOTY candidates. Just worth seeing.


----------



## xzeppelinfootx

septurum said:


> Since when did everything in here have to be puro or indies? Oh, and look up the words "opinion" and "entitled" in the dictionary please. I just thought I would mention those 3 matches in here. *Not saying they are MOTY candidates.* Just worth seeing.


Thank god this is the 2012 Matches that are worth seeing Thread.





Naw i'm just being a dick.


----------



## Obfuscation

^haha.

Yeah, the company isn't specific. WWE has had MOTYC too. Hell, Cena vs Lesnar IS my Match of the Year. It's simply put that the topic of the thread is MOTY candidates. Not to be nit-picky. That's why people questioned the reasoning for those listed. That's all. 

The discussion on those RAW matches can be done in the wrestling/match/dvd thread in the General WWE section. That's good for all the random match talk.


----------



## Cleavage

*PWG Battle of Los Angeles 2012 (Night One) - First Round Match: Davey Richards vs. Michael Elgin*

This was such a fantastic match and i enjoyed it more than the Showdown in the Sun one. They had the crowd which had died down to get back to their feet for the last ten minutes, the pacing, High impact moves and nearfalls were ridiculous. Michael Elgin looked unstoppable and didn't look lost which was a good thing cause he does look lost some times. Some of the power counters he does is AMAZING and in a few years he's gonna be a real stud and could do big things in the WWE or on NXT :side:. As many know i'm not the biggest Davey Richards fan cause of the way he puts matches together with the silly NO SELLING and big spots that don't add anything but this has to be the first time since he was teaming with Eddie during his "American Wolf" days that I've enjoyed him going all out to take this monster off his feet and putting him down for good. ****- ****1/4 Only thing holding it back was Davey kicking out of the Air raid crash off the top rope! that would of been a much better way of winning then the Bucklebomb then Spinning powerbomb.


----------



## septurum

Hailsabin said:


> ^haha.
> 
> Yeah, the company isn't specific. WWE has had MOTYC too. Hell, Cena vs Lesnar IS my Match of the Year. It's simply put that the topic of the thread is MOTY candidates. Not to be nit-picky. That's why people questioned the reasoning for those listed. That's all.
> 
> The discussion on those RAW matches can be done in the wrestling/match/dvd thread in the General WWE section. That's good for all the random match talk.


I've seen people rate matches below 4 stars in here before so I don't see what the big deal is.


----------



## Obfuscation

Cut off for GREAT in most people's terminology seems to be ***3/4. I can understand that. It's not a big deal either way.


----------



## septurum

Nah, it's not. Well, here is another one for ya:

Miz vs Dolph Ziggler- WWE Main Event 11-21-12: *** 3/4


----------



## EmbassyForever

*WWE Main Event 11.21.2012:* 
The Miz vs Dolph Ziggler - ***3/4+

What an awesome TV match, so far the best Main Event match (yeah, even better than Show/Orton, Punk/Sheamus and Kingston/Miz). Miz is a really good face that easy to get behind. Great back and forth match and the pre-match promo was fantastic too.


----------



## blackage316

CM Punk Vs Daniel Bryan Over The Limit 2012.


----------



## darkclaudio

Daisuke Sekimoto > Michael Elgin


----------



## Bubz

Tons of people > Michael Elgin


----------



## Obfuscation

Throw a rock at a random Indie wrestling locker room & first person it hits > Michael Elgin.


----------



## seabs

*The rock could end up hitting Davey Richards though. In which case he'd probably no sell the rock and kick it at someone else re-validating your argument. 

There's well over 50, maybe even 100 workers worldwide better than Elgin right now. Doubt many of them would be guys working the same Indies as Elgin though. Majority of the ROH roster sucks right now and they're aren't a whole lot of really good US workers at Indy level. I did a rough list for my top 50 workers of 2012 last month just to see how many candidates there would be at that point and I could only come up with 8 names who have been working the US Indy scene regularly. One of them is Finlay who I guess doesn't really count either. *


----------



## Russian Hooligan

Meh.....nonconformists.


----------



## EmbassyForever

*NJPW G1 Climax Day 2 03.08.2012* 
Tetsuya Naito vs Kazuchika Okada - ****1/2


----------



## Obfuscation

Seabs said:


> *The rock could end up hitting Davey Richards though. In which case he'd probably no sell the rock and kick it at someone else re-validating your argument.
> 
> There's well over 50, maybe even 100 workers worldwide better than Elgin right now. Doubt many of them would be guys working the same Indies as Elgin though. Majority of the ROH roster sucks right now and they're aren't a whole lot of really good US workers at Indy level. I did a rough list for my top 50 workers of 2012 last month just to see how many candidates there would be at that point and I could only come up with 8 names who have been working the US Indy scene regularly. One of them is Finlay who I guess doesn't really count either. *


True that. While I should have specified the rock being aimed at more lower level indie promotions, Davey's no sell saves my claim regardless.

I'm not sour on the whole US indie scene. I do think they've taken a blow via losing a lot of their top stars to the bigger companies though. Only original big names that seem to remain are Colt Cabana, El Generico, & Kevin Steen. Everyone else who is good is fairly new or just now breaking out. (Adam Cole, Ricochet, Super Smash Bros, etc) Differing opinions between you and I here, although I knew you haven't been too keen on the US indie market for a bit. Or at least this year. I'd say the only hooks in that world right now, for me, is Chikara & PWG. With random workers scattered elsewhere. Warming up more to EVOLVE & Dragon Gate: USA.

I do realize the irony of some of my examples too. Generico, Steen, & Super Smash Brothers are all Canadian. They work frequently for US indie promotions though so, meh. Screw it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Seabs said:


> *The rock could end up hitting Davey Richards though. In which case he'd probably no sell the rock and kick it at someone else re-validating your argument.*


He'd probably just leave the arena and then email the promoter demanding his fee be doubled for that ordeal.

Can't say I've watched more than 5 ROH matches this year, but Elgin has never really impressed me. Feels like a guy who needs an excellent base to work off of, rather than the guy who can control a match by himself and make it interesting. I've never seen the Finlay match from ROH but I seem to recall a lot saying the match really began to fall apart whenever Elgin was on offence.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Segunda Caida said:


> Can't say I've watched more than 5 ROH matches this year, but Elgin has never really impressed me. Feels like a guy who needs an excellent base to work off of, rather than the guy who can control a match by himself and make it interesting. I've never seen the Finlay match from ROH but I seem to recall a lot saying the match really began to fall apart whenever Elgin was on offence.


Actually when Finlay was on control the boring chants came out.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Maybe its because I've watched a shit-ton of Finlay and put him in an elite group of workers but I'm inclined to cite the ROH crowd being mongy if they find a Finlay match 'boring'.


----------



## Obfuscation

Segunda, most ROH fans nowadays prefer matches like Davey Richards vs Eddie Edwards going 40 minutes without any sign of psychology mixed in. Finlay didn't stand a chance.


----------



## Chismo

Finlay/Elgin was good. Fuck the NYC morons, I won't let them ruin that match for me.


----------



## Roncaglione

Finlay was horrible in that match. Slow and out of shape. Anyone who says otherwise is just saying different for the sake of being different.

I liked some of Finlay matches on his indy tour. But the Cult of Finlay is really tiresome.


----------



## seabs

Hailsabin said:


> True that. While I should have specified the rock being aimed at more lower level indie promotions, Davey's no sell saves my claim regardless.
> 
> I'm not sour on the whole US indie scene. I do think they've taken a blow via losing a lot of their top stars to the bigger companies though. Only original big names that seem to remain are Colt Cabana, El Generico, & Kevin Steen. Everyone else who is good is fairly new or just now breaking out. (Adam Cole, Ricochet, Super Smash Bros, etc) Differing opinions between you and I here, although I knew you haven't been too keen on the US indie market for a bit. Or at least this year. I'd say the only hooks in that world right now, for me, is Chikara & PWG. With random workers scattered elsewhere. Warming up more to EVOLVE & Dragon Gate: USA.
> 
> I do realize the irony of some of my examples too. Generico, Steen, & Super Smash Brothers are all Canadian. They work frequently for US indie promotions though so, meh. Screw it.


*The guys I had listed were:
Adam Cole
El Generico
Kevin Steen
Young Bucks
Super Smash Brothers
Sami Callihan
Luke Gallows
Jerry Lawler
Finlay
ACH

and that's all that I'd consider very good workers on the US Indies right now. Gallows, Finlay and Lawler are basically done for now too. Yes to Ricochet too but he's full time in Japan so I wouldn't really consider him an Indy guy now.

The biggest problem imo is the severe lack of vets for these new guys to work with. There's no Joe or a Danielson or a Aries or a Nigel to pair these new guys with promise with to elevate them to another level. Look at Tyler Black when he first broke through in ROH. He was a decent guy with potential who guys like Danielson and McGuinness made look like a legit star. Would Black have ever got over as more than a tag guy if them 2 weren't around? Debatable but I'd say unlikely. You look at the US Indies right now and there's nobody other than Generico who can fit into that role of taking a lesser guy and getting the most out of him to make him look like a great worker even if he isn't. Take Gargano for example. Gargano's a guy who's got the potential to be a great worker on the Indies but all the guys he works with are around his level so he can't progress any higher without a superhuman solo effort. Working with guys like Chuck Taylor and Jon Davis won't make him a great worker. Working with guys like Danielson and co would have made him a great worker by now though. All you have to do is watch Gargano's match with Danielson from 2010 and you'll see my point of how a guy like Danielson can take a decent worker, use all his positives and then use all of his attributes to make the guy look better than he already is and then use the experience for that guy to develop from it. There's an old wrestling phrase which is "you're only as good as your opponent". Basically in order for you to look good, you have to make your opponent look good. A guy like Chuck Taylor can't make a guy like Johnny Gargano look better than he is. Flair and Danielson were/are masters of doing that. How many Indy guys has Danielson had the best matches of their carears with? How many guys made Sting and Luger look as great as they did when they faced Flair?*


----------



## Obfuscation

Seabs said:


> *The guys I had listed were:
> Adam Cole
> El Generico
> Kevin Steen
> Young Bucks
> Super Smash Brothers
> Sami Callihan
> Luke Gallows
> Jerry Lawler
> Finlay
> ACH
> 
> and that's all that I'd consider very good workers on the US Indies right now. Gallows, Finlay and Lawler are basically done for now too. Yes to Ricochet too but he's full time in Japan so I wouldn't really consider him an Indy guy now.
> 
> The biggest problem imo is the severe lack of vets for these new guys to work with. There's no Joe or a Danielson or a Aries or a Nigel to pair these new guys with promise with to elevate them to another level. Look at Tyler Black when he first broke through in ROH. He was a decent guy with potential who guys like Danielson and McGuinness made look like a legit star. Would Black have ever got over as more than a tag guy if them 2 weren't around? Debatable but I'd say unlikely. You look at the US Indies right now and there's nobody other than Generico who can fit into that role of taking a lesser guy and getting the most out of him to make him look like a great worker even if he isn't. Take Gargano for example. Gargano's a guy who's got the potential to be a great worker on the Indies but all the guys he works with are around his level so he can't progress any higher without a superhuman solo effort. Working with guys like Chuck Taylor and Jon Davis won't make him a great worker. Working with guys like Danielson and co would have made him a great worker by now though. All you have to do is watch Gargano's match with Danielson from 2010 and you'll see my point of how a guy like Danielson can take a decent worker, use all his positives and then use all of his attributes to make the guy look better than he already is and then use the experience for that guy to develop from it. There's an old wrestling phrase which is "you're only as good as your opponent". Basically in order for you to look good, you have to make your opponent look good. A guy like Chuck Taylor can't make a guy like Johnny Gargano look better than he is. Flair and Danielson were/are masters of doing that. How many Indy guys has Danielson had the best matches of their carears with? How many guys made Sting and Luger look as great as they did when they faced Flair?*


List is around all the guys I'd say were at the tops in the US Indie scene anyways. Minus ACH. Not too sold on him atm.

Yes. That's my view on the state of indie wrestling too. All the veterans are lost. I made that statement about a month ago while reviewing Austin Aries vs Bully Ray. I can echo your entire post with my rebuttal post, but why do so when you pointed out all the facts already. 100% agreed.

I've always put Danielson over like that. His matches TJ Perkins a few years ago in PWG is one of the fastest examples that comes to my mind in this scenario. TJ, a good well rounded wrestler. A tad bland however. Danielson brought out the best I've seen from him in their clash at Battle of Los Angeles. Everyone was raving and it was all thanks in part to Danielson having that keen ability to make ANYONE he clashes against look like a star. He's the main guy to have that Flair quality about him. We could peg a few other names if we thought about it, but those are the two that go hand in hand. Indie scene needs another one to fill that void. Well, more than one obviously. Generico can do that. He's GREAT at adding a brilliant story/drama to a match. He can't save everything within the US indie scene all on his own though. He's done a damn good job nonetheless. Help is needed.


----------



## Yeah1993

Danielson/McGuinness 6YA is the only ROH crowd I've ever enjoyed. 



Roncaglione said:


> Finlay was horrible in that match. Slow and out of shape. *Anyone who says otherwise is just saying different for the sake of being different.*


Ugh.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Roncaglione said:


> Finlay was horrible in that match. Slow and out of shape. Anyone who says otherwise is just saying different for the sake of being different.
> 
> I liked some of Finlay matches on his indy tour. But the Cult of Finlay is really tiresome.


I haven't seen the match, but I'd be incredibly surprised if I thought the same as you did mainly because of how Finlay to me has looked on his indy run, which has been anything but 'slow and out of shape'.

The bit about 'people saying different for the sake of being different' is really silly. I love his style and the way he makes seemingly everything matter and have a sense of purpose, but I'm not going to pretend that style could wear thin on some people and just not really connect and matter to them. Saying people with a contrary opinion to you are just stating that to oppose you makes you look childish and highly elitist, in that you believe there's nothing to counter your opinion.

'The cult of Finlay' is again a pretty silly statement. People appreciate it his style because its simplistic, yet layered and progresses a match along nicely. He knows how to make opponents of various styles and sizes look like a threat and can work a variety of match formulas. Of course like any wrestler his style isn't going to win everyone over, and in Finlay's case the pace of his matches can probably alienate people not used to his or the classic European style of wrestling. It doesn't make them misguided or clueless to not like his matches, but it does make them look clueless if they then accuse any Finlay fan of only liking his matches for the sake of being 'elitist' and different to everyone else.


----------



## seabs

*The Elgin match was Finlay's worst match of his Indy run not with a comedy wrestler or a midget. Elgin looked clueless in it. Finlay wasn't great in it either tbf. One of his weaker performances of his Indy run. The crowd killed it though. Finlay + ROH wasn't a good mix. *


----------



## Roncaglione

Seabs said:


> *The Elgin match was Finlay's worst match of his Indy run not with a comedy wrestler or a midget. Elgin looked clueless in it. Finlay wasn't great in it either tbf. One of his weaker performances of his Indy run. The crowd killed it though. Finlay + ROH wasn't a good mix. *


and Finlay couldn't adapt. 

The fans had every reason to get restless as that match was genuinely boring regardless what style was or wasn't being wrestled. It was like a boring WWE house show match rather than this technical masterpiece the "moronic" ROH fans didn't get.



Segunda Caida said:


> 'The cult of Finlay' is again a pretty silly statement. People appreciate it his style because its simplistic, yet layered and progresses a match along nicely. He knows how to make opponents of various styles and sizes look like a threat and can work a variety of match formulas. Of course like any wrestler his style isn't going to win everyone over, and in Finlay's case the pace of his matches can probably alienate people not used to his or the classic European style of wrestling. It doesn't make them misguided or clueless to not like his matches, but it does make them look clueless if they then accuse any Finlay fan of only liking his matches for the sake of being 'elitist' and different to everyone else.


You being a Phil Scheider/Dylan Waco covers act is nice and all but I didn't say that.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Also the match was after Cole/O'Reilly whe the crowd went nuts.


----------



## seabs

*ROH fans only react when someone says something smarky like chanting CM Punk at Maria or when guys kill themselves doing spots. Rest of the time they don't react so Finlay was never going to get a Finlay style match really over with the current ROH fanbase. I agree that the match wasn't interesting though and that neither guy was great in it. Comments like "Anyone who says otherwise is just saying different for the sake of being different", "But the Cult of Finlay is really tiresome" and "You being a Phil Scheider/Dylan Waco covers act is nice" just make you come across as though you're opinion is massively affected by your agenda with another board.*


----------



## Roncaglione

Seabs said:


> *ROH fans only react when someone says something smarky like chanting CM Punk at Maria or when guys kill themselves doing spots. Rest of the time they don't react so Finlay was never going to get a Finlay style match really over with the current ROH fanbase. I agree that the match wasn't interesting though and that neither guy was great in it. Comments like "Anyone who says otherwise is just saying different for the sake of being different", "But the Cult of Finlay is really tiresome" and "You being a Phil Scheider/Dylan Waco covers act is nice" just make you come across as though you're opinion is massively affected by your agenda with another board.*


I actually get on with those two people.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

Michael Elgin vs. Chris Hero (1/20/12)- ***1/2
Michael Elgin vs. Silas Young (2/24/12)- ****
Michael Elgin & Roddy Strong vs. Amazing Red & TJP (3/4/12)- ***3/4
Michael Elgin vs. Davey Richards (3/31/12)- *****
Michael Elgin vs. Silas Young (04/21/12)- ****1/2
Michael Elgin vs. MASADA (5/5/12)- ***1/4
Michael Elgin vs. Adam Cole (5/12/12)- ***
Michael Elgin vs. Kyle O’Reilly (6/22/12)- ***3/4-****
Michael Elgin vs. Fit Finlay (6/24/12)- ***
Michael Elgin vs. Adam Cole (9/8/12)- ***
Michael Elgin vs. Silas Young (09/21/12)- **3/4
Michael Elgin vs. Kevin Steen (10/13/12)- ****1/2

These are the Elgin matches off the top of my head that I’ve enjoyed, my personal opinion he is far from trash. I don’t take offense to people who didn’t or don't enjoy some of Finlay’s matches as his style of wrestling is definitely not for everyone. I think people are simply conditioned to see Finlay work more brawler/aggressive style matches like he mainly did in WWE and not so much for his technical side.


----------



## Chismo

Top 10 Indy wrestlers in 2012 _(PWG, DGUSA, EVOLVE, CHIKARA, CZW and miscellaneous random smaller Indy matches)_, as it stands:

1. Johnny Gargano
2. Kevin Steen
3. Sami Callihan
4. El Generico
5. Eddie Kingston
6. Adam Cole
7. AR Fox
8. Ricochet
9. Dasher Hatfield
10. Samuray Del Sol


----------



## EmbassyForever

Glad to see someone some respect to Gargano. Really underrated worker with great mic-skills. In my opinion Silas Young is underrated too and probably number ten or something close in my list.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

JoeRulz said:


> Top 10 Indy wrestlers in 2012 _(PWG, DGUSA, EVOLVE, CHIKARA, CZW and miscellaneous random smaller Indy matches)_, as it stands:
> 
> 1. Johnny Gargano
> 2. Kevin Steen
> 3. Sami Callihan
> 4. El Generico
> 5. Eddie Kingston
> 6. Adam Cole
> 7. AR Fox
> 8. Ricochet
> 9. Dasher Hatfield
> 10. Samuray Del Sol


Tried to Rep but yeah I like most of this list. Gargano is the fucking man for my money.


----------



## Nervosa

JoeRulz said:


> Top 10 Indy wrestlers in 2012 _(PWG, DGUSA, EVOLVE, CHIKARA, CZW and miscellaneous random smaller Indy matches)_, as it stands:
> 
> 1. Johnny Gargano
> 2. Kevin Steen
> 3. Sami Callihan
> 4. El Generico
> 5. Eddie Kingston
> 6. Adam Cole
> 7. AR Fox
> 8. Ricochet
> 9. Dasher Hatfield
> 10. Samuray Del Sol


Quack is a much sadder omission here than Elgin. And I like Elgin more than most.


----------



## USAUSA1

Has anyone rate the Adam Pearce and cabana 7 levels of hate matches yet? I haven't really watch them in full


----------



## Obfuscation

Gargano is awesome. I'll put him over too. #1 on the indie scene today is Generico though. Has been for years. With Sami Callihan close behind.


----------



## Chismo

Hailsabin said:


> Gargano is awesome. I'll put him over too. *#1 on the indie scene today is Generico though*. Has been for years. With Sami Callihan close behind.


Normally I would agree, but these WOTY lists are beyond tricky, because you gotta consider numerous factors into it. For example, I put Gargano over Generico because of his long ass Freedom Gate reign, which had few stellar defenses.


----------



## septurum

Seabs said:


> *The guys I had listed were:
> Adam Cole
> El Generico
> Kevin Steen
> Young Bucks
> Super Smash Brothers
> Sami Callihan
> Luke Gallows
> Jerry Lawler
> Finlay
> ACH
> 
> *


_

No love for Eddie Kingston, AR Fox, Sami Callihan, Mike Quackenbush or Willie Mack? Isn't Cabana still around as well? There are still some quality guys out there._


----------



## seabs

septurum said:


> No love for Eddie Kingston, AR Fox, Sami Callihan, Mike Quackenbush or Willie Mack? Isn't Cabana still around as well? There are still some quality guys out there.


*Kingston I don't get to see enough of because I always put off downloading CHIKARA shows for his matches that get pimped. Fox is shit. Callihan is even on the list. Fuck Quack. Mack has never really done anything bar the Strong and Steen matches. Cabana isn't top 50 worker calibre but he's good at what he does.*


----------



## dukenukem3do

Seabs said:


> *Kingston I don't get to see enough of because I always put off downloading CHIKARA shows for his matches that get pimped. Fox is shit. Callihan is even on the list. Fuck Quack. Mack has never really done anything bar the Strong and Steen matches. Cabana isn't top 50 worker calibre but he's good at what he does.*


How is AR Fox shit?


----------



## seabs

*All he does is kill himself doing flips. *


----------



## Corey

I wouldn't say AR Fox is shit but I can understand why someone would say that. From what I've seen he's just a big spot monkey. Doesn't seem to have much charisma either. Kinda bland character wise but a fine guy to see flip around the ring. A guy I'd compare him to is Rich Swann, although Swann radiates personality. Entertaining dude to watch.


----------



## Bubz

Yeah1993 said:


> Danielson/McGuinness 6YA is the only ROH crowd I've ever enjoyed


Best ROH match ever. It's science .

Also, I watch nowhere near enough Indy shit to even consider making a list of workers or whatever. All I've watched this year has been Puro, ROH (PPV's) and WWE tbh, just haven't been feeling like getting into anything recently.

And from what I have seen, AR Fox seems like I'd hate him if I watched any more of him. Does no one else think he looks really fucking awkward setting up for moves? And that's all he does too so it makes it worse.


----------



## seabs

*Swann's been awesome since he's been more or less full time in Japan. Before he went over there he was pretty bad but now he's fine tuned everything up and his charisma shines through a lot more. Swann's super. I need to see more Rich Swann matches.*


----------



## xzeppelinfootx

Seabs said:


> _Kingston I don't get to see enough of because I always put off downloading CHIKARA shows for his matches that get pimped. Fox is shit. Callihan is even on the list. *Fuck Quack.* Mack has never really done anything bar the Strong and Steen matches. Cabana isn't top 50 worker calibre but he's good at what he does._


Lmao, no reason necessary just fuck Quack. I'd like to hear the argument behind it like maybe you just don't like his style or he hasn't worked enough places this year to actually consider him a top worker. The reasons are definitely out there. Hopefully its more then "I didn't really ever like him and then i watched the Hero shoot blurb blurb blurb" Quack has been good this year btw. I'll probably get burned at the stake for this, but wrestling wise he has been MUCH better than Steen this year.


----------



## seabs

*Steen hasn't really done a whole lot this year tbf. I don't like Quack. He's good technically but he's also really boring. That and fuck Quack. I don't watch CHIKARA so I'm not really giving those guys a fair shout but I have little desire to see a Quack singles match unless it's against a guy I like.

What's MOTYC Level from CHIKARA this year, save me going through all the show ratings. I like to keep telling myself I'll watch the Kingston stuff, the Ebbesan matches from KOT and ACH/Touchdown. Watched Generico/SDR though.*


----------



## Bubz

Seabs is Generico/SDR good?


----------



## Chismo

AR Fox is good. He's not my favorite wrestler, and he's not great, but the guy is busting his ass out there. His mindset is to go out there and win a match by hitting as many big moves as possible. Now, I know that sounds bad, but in reality it looks pretty decent actually, and not over the top. Nothing different from a powerhouse tossing his opponent around, or a striker throwing vicious kicks all the time. Some dudes pull legs, some throw chops, some throw strikes, and AR Fox flys, it's simple as that. He gets crowds to cheer him, and that's always positive. He even improved his game in slower, methodical parts this year. He can wrestle even limbwork matches. And his hardcore stuff has been top notch this year. So yeah, Fox is a new all-round wrestler to watch, IMO. But, I'd really like him to slow down sometimes, and to adjust or modificate his offense, for his sake, because his high-impact moves can look devastating even to his own body sometimes.



septurum said:


> No love for Eddie Kingston, AR Fox, Sami Callihan, Mike Quackenbush or Willie Mack? Isn't Cabana still around as well? There are still some quality guys out there.


Well, instead of taking his list as the official one, why don't you simply make one of your own?


----------



## septurum

JoeRulz said:


> Well, instead of taking his list as the official one, why don't you simply make one of your own?


Just interested in the reasoning behind some of his omissions. Him saying fuck Quack hurts me.


----------



## seabs

Bubz said:


> Seabs is Generico/SDR good?


*Yeah. You should watch it.*


----------



## Bruce L

Seabs said:


> *What's MOTYC Level from CHIKARA this year, save me going through all the show ratings.*


KoT finals (the Spectral Envoy vs. Team RoH) seems to be the consensus pick for their MOTY. Not my pick personally (that's King vs. Jigsaw; see below), but definitely worthy. There are about 4 MOTYCs from nights 2 and 3 each, by my reckoning, and the whole shows are great.

Generico/Del Rey, which you've seen.

Mr. Touchdown vs. ACH from _The Ring of Wax_.

Taylor & Gargano vs. the Young Bucks from _Chikarasaurus Rex_.

Young Bucks vs. the Throwbacks from _Give 'Em the Axe_.

Kingston's title defenses against Jigsaw (_Aniversario: The Ogg and I_), Del Rey (_The Great Escape_), Tadasuke (_KoT Night 2_), and of all people Dasher Hatfield (_Smack in the Middle_). I've also heard great things about his defense against Brodie Lee (_It's How You Play the Game_), but the show didn't get good enough reviews for me to consider buying it.

Quack vs. Cabana from _Shoot a Crooked Arrow_ and the 1-2-3 Kid, Tatanka, & Aldo Montoya vs. Jerry Lynn, Tommy Dreamer, & 2 Cold Scorpio from KoT night 1 have gotten really good reviews, but I haven't seen either.


----------



## Groovemachine

I've gotta say, I honestly do not get all the love for Sami Calihan. I find him extremely annoying (and not in a 'good heel' kind of way), his offense doesn't do much for me, and his persona in the ring just doesn't interest me. I'm in no way saying he's bad per se, as I still find myself enjoying a couple of his matches, but for all the hate Elgin's getting around here, I'd take an Elgin match over a Calihan match any day.


EDIT: Slightly more on topic, Sara Del Rey vs Generico is my Chikara MOTY at the moment. Fantastic stuff that transcends the usual male/female dynamic.


----------



## Bubz

It was only because someone was saying Elgin was the best wrestler on the indies or something, can't even remember now. I think someone even said he was better than Punk which is just an awful thing to even consider saying. 

I dislike Callihan more than most people it seems, but he seems to split opinion on here down the middle. Pretty sure half the people like him and half don't. It's more of a personal thing for me though, I just can't stand Callihan at all.


----------



## Concrete

I wouldn't say there is a consensus MOTY out of Chikara by any stretch of the imagination but here some notables outside of Generico vs. SDR that I've seen:

-Jigsaw vs. Eddie Kingston from The Ogg and I
-Sara Del Rey vs. Eddie Kingston (Personal Chikara MOTY)
-ACH vs. Mark Angel(Borderline MOTYC for sure,cracked **** for me but for as much as you dig ACH there is a better chance you'll enjoy it than not)

Stuff from KOT that I saw live but not on DVD:
-Kingston vs. Tadasuke Night 2
-Joshi Tag Night 3
-KOT Finals Night 3


----------



## xzeppelinfootx

I'm not gonna lie, I think for me the Chikara MOTY falls somewhere between the Joshi Tag from Night 3 of Trios and King/Del Rey. Although you could take your pick of his defenses this year and find a possible match of the year for Chikara. Kingston has had a great year. Also keep in mind that there are at least three potential moty's set for the finale between King/Donst for the Grand Championship, Bucks/Jannety & 123 Kid for the tag titles, ACH/Touchdown II, and even one of the multi mans. Also I've seen someone with Cibernetico listed as their MOTY so yea.


----------



## Nervosa

Seabs said:


> * I don't like Quack. He's good technically but he's also really boring. That and fuck Quack. I don't watch CHIKARA so I'm not really giving those guys a fair shout but I have little desire to see a Quack singles match unless it's against a guy I like.
> *


To each their own, I suppose. Quack continues to be the guy I go out of my way to see on the indies. I think he sells great, has a good brain for wrestling and is as good at execution as anyone I have ever seen, at any level. I can understand the boring argument in the same way people called Bret hart boring. I don't agree, but I get it. (For the record, I like Quack even more than Hitman. *GASP*)

I can understand your point about Chikara, though. when the Japan stuff stacks up, I go out of my way to see that first. I had a couple chikara matches I wanted to watch, but I watch all of NJPW Power Struggle first. that's just how I am with Chikara: its always the backburner. The exception, for me, is of course the top Quack stuff. 

Like I said though, to each their own.


----------



## SpicolliDriver

Been out of the loop this year, could someone gimmie like a top 5 or 10 of shit I gotta check out, doesn't matter promotion or style of match, loves it all. Thanks! You guys rock!


----------



## Concrete

Here is my Top 5-ish this year
-SSB vs The Young Bucks vs Future Shock(Ladder) 7/21/2012 PWG
-Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito (3/4/2012) NJPW
-Bryan Danielson vs Sheamus(2/3 Falls) (4/29/2012) WWE
-SSB vs The Young Bucks(No DQ) (5/25/2012) PWG
-Eddie Kingston vs. Sara Del Rey (7/28/2012) CHIKARA


----------



## Obfuscation

Chikara started to pump out MOTYC when they hit about Hot Off The Griddle - on. The early part of the year as fun as hell, but only Kingston/Brodie was the real "standout" as far as MOTYC goes. Despite there being the awesome Del Rey/Peck, Ophidian/Peck(I know I'm alone there), & strong Atomicos matches.

Del Rey & Kingston owned this year. Then of course when they locked up, it was obvious how well the match turned out. I was in heaven.


----------



## Bubz

*NJPW Power Struggle*
*Shinsuke Nakamura vs Karl Anderson*
Great match. Anderson playing the dominant heel was cool and he did it well, the machine gun motion he did to Nakamura as he was choking him with his foot in the corner was hilarious. Shinsuke can play a face just as well as a heel and he's easy to get behind. Table/Guardrail spot was cool, and the neck work was really good from Anderson. Hot finishing stretch as I expected going in. That's something you can always count on from any NJPW upper midcard match and upwards. Not quite as good as Okada/Anderson from KOPW, but not far off. ******


----------



## Lane

*House of Hardcore*
Tony Nese vs Alex Renolds
***3/4

Sami Callihan vs Rhino
****
Jesus H Christ. So much fun and they had a great little war of a match

The Young Bucks vs Londrick
***1/2-****

Tommy Dreamer vs Carlito vs Mike Knox
***-***1/2
Way better than expected.


----------



## Obfuscation

^Mike Knox?!

Not crazy about one of his opponents being Carlito Colon, although it's great to hear that he's working matches. Well, not under a mask + only using punches and kicks to suit a gimmick. You know, legit matches.


----------



## septurum

Alberto Del Rio vs John Cena (Smackdown 11-30-12) - *** 3/4 Really impressed with this match. Was not expecting much from them to be honest.


----------



## Bubz

Hailsabin said:


> ^Mike Knox?!
> 
> Not crazy about one of his opponents being Carlito Colon, although it's great to hear that he's working matches. Well, not under a mask + only using punches and kicks to suit a gimmick. You know, legit matches.


Yeah Knox was so underutilized in WWE. Seriously could have made him a beast. Does he still have that frankly amazing beard?


----------



## Lane

He does but he is also bald.


----------



## Obfuscation

Beard is in tact. :mark:

His Flying Bear crossbody OWNS.


----------



## Certified G

I'll definitely check out that Mike Knox match. I really thought WWE could've used him alot better. I thought he had a good look with the crazy hobo/lumberjack beard, and he had some good moves like the one mentioned above.


----------



## Obfuscation

Yeah, that Cena vs Alberto Del Rio match on Smackdown was top notch. ***3/4. A low candidate on my list. It deserves a mention at the very least. Cena caps off a strong week of TV matches with that one. Del Rio needed it too following his string of crap lately. They have nice chemistry, imo.


----------



## djmathers1207

TV matches of the week

Raw

John Cena vs. Dolph Ziggler
Daniel Bryan vs. Rey Mysterio
Sheamus vs. Antonio Cesaro/Claudio Castagnoli

Main Event

John Cena vs. Damien Sandow

Impact

Bobby Roode vs. Christian York

Smackdown

John Cena vs. Alberto Del Rio


----------



## topper1

djmathers1207 said:


> TV matches of the week
> 
> Raw
> 
> John Cena vs. Dolph Ziggler
> Daniel Bryan vs. Rey Mysterio
> Sheamus vs. Antonio Cesaro/Claudio Castagnoli
> 
> Main Event
> 
> John Cena vs. Damien Sandow
> 
> Impact
> 
> Bobby Roode vs. Christian York
> 
> Smackdown
> 
> John Cena vs. Alberto Del Rio


Thanks for the help man I will make sure to check out this amazing "MOTYC" that I found in this "MOTYC" THREAD.


----------



## blink_41sum_182

Not a MOTYC but the Fatal Four Way on Raw was great. 

*** 1/2


----------



## djmathers1207

It would have been great if it went a few minutes longer


----------



## seabs

*Austin Aries vs Jeff Hardy - Ladder Match - TNA Turning Point 2012*
_Thought this was really sloppy and pretty bad. For a match that got pimped as being fun for the crazy ladder spots I didn't think any of the spots were all that interesting. Jeff took some stupidly nasty bumps but they looked more reckless and dangerous than cool looking spots. The chemistry between the two was awful. Aries messed up his fair share of spots too and it wasn't just Hardy being out of his mind. The diving chop from the top rope that Aries got nowhere near with was embarrassing. Loved the idea of Aries trying to trap Jeff under the ladder and steps so he had a free climb but then they ruined it by having Aries just climb back down with Jeff nowhere in site. Never felt like there was anything extra to the match either. There was no sense of hate or any emotions between the two. Aries' character work was neat at times but Hardy was in zombie mode. Spot where Aries pulls the titles up higher was cringe worthy. Wasn't like he fell over right next to the area of the arena either. Looked really goofy and out of place in a main event title match. Spots never really felt significant and so the finish just came at a random time. No thanks._


----------



## Nervosa

Anderson, Naito, Goto, and Tanahashi vs. Yujiro, Tanaka, Nakamura, Okada
Elimination Rules
5/5/12
****

Did anyone else see this? You can be Eliminated by being tossed over the top rope, but besides the fact that over half the guys in the match were eliminated that way, this is a nice little gem. The opening stuff is great, and the finishing stretch between the final too was a lot of fun. Anderson was really the star of this match, and had some really incredible sequences.


----------



## Obfuscation

Link me if you can.


----------



## Nervosa

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xq...jpw-05-05-12_sport?search_algo=2#.UMC57KzneSo


----------



## Bubz

I never usually bother with New Japans non ppv cards, they're usually just filler with tons of multi-man tag matches, but that sounds good, especially with all the guys involved.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™

Nervosa said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xq...jpw-05-05-12_sport?search_algo=2#.UMC57KzneSo


That was pretty awesome, I need to watch more Puro  any other recommendations from this year with links?


----------



## Nervosa

Honestly, I haven't watched much of the non-big show stuff this year either, I just randomly found that one while searching around.

The exact same 8 guys are also in a 1-fall match a month before that one, but I don't enjoy it as much:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xq...anaka-yujiro-njpw-04-21-12_sport#.UMC6M6zneSo

Most of the NJPW guys on this board have seen a lot more than I have.


----------



## Cactus

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> That was pretty awesome, I need to watch more Puro  any other recommendations from this year with links?


Go to the first page of this thread and you will find my MOTYC list which features plenty of recent puro to check out.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™

Cacti Roasting On An Open Fire said:


> Go to the first page of this thread and you will find my MOTYC list which features plenty of recent puro to check out.


Thanks dude. (Y)


----------



## Nervosa

I'm spending a fair amount of time just looking up multi-man tags from New Japan in the past year. I found another one in the **** range.

Tanahashi, Goto, and Naito vs. Ishii, Nakamura, and Okada

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xr...jpw-06-10-12_sport?search_algo=2#.UMJWCazneSo

The undisputed star of this match is Ishii. Yeah, I know, right? He is more over than anyone in this match, Korakuen goes crazy for him. all of his stuff is gold in this match, and the crowd eats it up. Tanahashi is annoyingly bad here, and he kinda shorts the finish, but besides that ,this match is filled with really great performances from ShinSKAY, Naito, and Okada. Really enjoyable match.


----------



## Obfuscation

Nervosa said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xq...jpw-05-05-12_sport?search_algo=2#.UMC57KzneSo


:mark:

Cheers.


----------



## seabs

*Can people please stop being shocked by Ishii's greatness. He brings it every single time. That match is really good indeed. Watch Ishii/Goto if you haven't already.*


----------



## ywall2breakerj

Nervosa said:


> I'm spending a fair amount of time just looking up multi-man tags from New Japan in the past year. I found another one in the **** range.
> 
> Tanahashi, Goto, and Naito vs. Ishii, Nakamura, and Okada
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xr...jpw-06-10-12_sport?search_algo=2#.UMJWCazneSo
> 
> The undisputed star of this match is Ishii. Yeah, I know, right? He is more over than anyone in this match, Korakuen goes crazy for him. all of his stuff is gold in this match, and the crowd eats it up. Tanahashi is annoyingly bad here, and he kinda shorts the finish, but besides that ,this match is filled with really great performances from ShinSKAY, Naito, and Okada. Really enjoyable match.


Check out Ishii vs Goto and Okada & Nakamura vs Tanahashi & Naito if you haven't. Great stuff.

Seabs beat me to it (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation

I know why they're shocked. b/c he went from a random guy in the GBH to a BOSS almost overnight.

That's the way I perceive it.


----------



## Nervosa

Lord Santa Claus IV. said:


> *Can people please stop being shocked by Ishii's greatness. He brings it every single time. That match is really good indeed. Watch Ishii/Goto if you haven't already.*


The shock isn't as much his greatness, but that New Japan really does nothing with him despite how awesome/over he is.



ywall2breakerj said:


> Check out Ishii vs Goto and Okada & Nakamura vs Tanahashi & Naito if you haven't. Great stuff.
> 
> Seabs beat me to it (Y)


Looking into it now. thanks for the recommendation.

EDIT: AHEM....

Ishii/Goto is a fucking Match of the year candidate. at least ****1/4. Damn that was an enjoyable fucking brawl. Ishii rules. They need to do something with this guy.


----------



## seabs

*Ishii's perfect in the role he's currently in. Dude that never wins but will always put up enough of a great fight to be credible and get over. Every promotion needs an Ishii. The rise in Ishii love fills my heart with so much JOY~! Legit top 20 guy for the year. Ishii/Goto is my #4 match from New Japan this year which says a lot for how high I rated it. *


----------



## Bubz

I really need to see Goto/Ishii. Downloaded it ages ago but seem to have deleted it by accident. What show was it from?


----------



## Russian Hooligan

Bubz said:


> I really need to see Goto/Ishii. Downloaded it ages ago but seem to have deleted it by accident. What show was it from?


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xsv5yp_hirooki-goto-c-vs-tomohiro-ishii-njpw_sport?search_algo=2#.UMNv4F8hDRE


----------



## Russian Hooligan

Lord Santa Claus IV. said:


> *Legit top 20 guy for the year.*



In my opinion Tomohiro Ishii is average wrestler. One good match does not mean anything. Hirooki Goto much better.


----------



## Nervosa

Russian Hooligan said:


> In my opinion Tomohiro Ishii is average wrestler. One good match does not mean anything. Hirooki Goto much better.


Feel free to watch Ishii/Nakamura/Odaka vs. Tanahashi/Naito/goto....where he was the STAR of that match. Then watch the recent Laughter 7 match. Or any of the countless number of tags where Ishii has been awesome. 

Then I'll accept your unconditional apology on this.


----------



## ywall2breakerj

Goto is pretty average. Has a bunch of cool moves but can't really structure a good match around them, this year's New Japan Cup final against Tanahashi was a perfect example of that.


----------



## seabs

Bubz said:


> I really need to see Goto/Ishii. Downloaded it ages ago but seem to have deleted it by accident. What show was it from?


*May 20th. New Japan have it on their youtube page if it's nowhere else.

Does Russian Hooligan only turn up in here to voice his terrible opinions? Seems that way. 

Goto's not very good. Nowhere near the level of the other New Japan guys that he's pushed harder than. Has he ever had a great match with anyone other than Nakamura or Tanahashi. Ishii match this year obv. but Ishii made that match by himself.*


----------



## Russian Hooligan

Nervosa said:


> Feel free to watch Ishii/Nakamura/Odaka vs. Tanahashi/Naito/goto....where he was the STAR of that match. Then watch the recent Laughter 7 match. Or any of the countless number of tags where Ishii has been awesome.
> 
> Then I'll accept your unconditional apology on this.


Good matches but nothing special. Tomohiro Ishii in top 20 wrestlers for the year? Nope. There are guys who deserve this more.


----------



## Russian Hooligan

ywall2breakerj said:


> Goto is pretty average.


It seems to you. Hirooki simply lazy wrestler, but that doesn't mean he bad. Goto better than Ishii. For example, Alex Shelley said that Goto very good worker. In my country he is also very like many people.


----------



## ywall2breakerj

I'm not saying he's bad per se. He's not as good as some make him out to be. Like there are guys on youtube claiming he's the greatest Shin Nihon worker. That's silly. His lazyness definitely doesn't help him.


*KENTA, MAYBACH Taniguchi & Genba Hiranayagi vs Katsuhiko Nakajima, Kensuke Sasaki & Mitsuhiro Kitamiya-NOAH 29.9.2012.*

KENTA and Nakajima hate each other~! Kitamiya is a stupid rookie that deserves to be tortured~! MAYBACH is crazy~! Genba's shtick is still awesome~! Kensuke adds...........nothing~!

****3/4*


----------



## Corey

I can't help but picture Vladimir Kozlov speaking all of Russian Hooligan's posts...


----------



## seabs

Russian Hooligan said:


> Goto better than Ishii. For example, Alex Shelley said that Goto very good worker.


*:lmao

Awesome.

My top 50 thread is gonna piss so many people off. Can't wait!*


----------



## Russian Hooligan

ywall2breakerj said:


> He's not as good as some make him out to be. Like there are guys on youtube claiming he's the greatest Shin Nihon worker.


Guys on youtube certainly are not right. But also Ishii not as good as here many say. One good match with Hirooki, and rest pretty average. Sorry guys, foolish to put him in the top 20, even CM Punk deserves it more.


----------



## Concrete

Russian Hooligan said:


> Guys on youtube certainly are not right. But also Ishii not as good as here many say. One good match with Hirooki, and rest pretty average. Sorry guys, foolish to put him in the top 20, even CM Punk deserves it more.


Are we going back to the "CM Punk is botch machine and his horrible." Cause that's going nowhere. Punk isn't my favorite wrestler but that probably has a slight bit to do with I haven't seen much of his independent stuff. I think that's why a lot of guys like him SO much. I'm not saying everyone here loves him but they usually have a reason for disliking someone that is A)Factual B)Something to do with their favoritism towards some point of the art of wrestling. 

95% of the time looking for great opinion on wrestling on youtube is a horrible decision. Don't do it. I use to do it when I was 15. I've moved on.


----------



## Russian Hooligan

enlightenedone9 said:


> 95% of the time looking for great opinion on wrestling on youtube is a horrible decision. Don't do it. I use to do it when I was 15. I've moved on.


How YouTube relate to my words?


----------



## Nervosa

I would say Ishii is top 20 and Punk is even better. Goto is nowhere close. 

Every 6-10 man tag I have seen with Ishii in it this year he has been the best guy in it nearly every time.


----------



## Yeah1993

I saw Ishii in a tag recently and he was solid but kind of annoying. Can someone give me five-ten Ishii matches from 2012 to watch where he looks really good?


----------



## Nervosa

Yeah1993 said:


> I saw Ishii in a tag recently and he was solid but kind of annoying. Can someone give me five-ten Ishii matches from 2012 to watch where he looks really good?


I'm still in the process of watching more from him, so I haven;t seen nearly enough, but here are some of my favorites:

Nakamura, Ishii, Okada vs. Naito, tanahashi, Goto 
Ishii vs. Goto
Ishii, Yano, Iizuka vs. Stong Man, Nagata, Nakanishi
Ishii/Nakamura vs. Laughter7
Ishii, Nakamura, Okada, yujiro vs. Tanahashi, Anderson, goto, tonga
Ishii, Nakamura, tanaka vs. Tanahashi, Goto, Akebono

Seabs, have you seen that last one, with Akebono? Ake missing an elbow only for Ishii to follow up and yell 'brainbuster' on a man he clearly won't lift is awesome.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Lord Santa Claus IV. said:


> *May 20th. New Japan have it on their youtube page if it's nowhere else.
> 
> Does Russian Hooligan only turn up in here to voice his terrible opinions? Seems that way.
> 
> Goto's not very good. Nowhere near the level of the other New Japan guys that he's pushed harder than. Has he ever had a great match with anyone other than Nakamura or Tanahashi. Ishii match this year obv. but Ishii made that match by himself.*


vs Okada? vs Tanaka?


----------



## septurum

Danshoku Dino vs Antonio Honda (DDT 2/19)- *** 3/4

Kota Ibushi vs Low-Ki (NJPW 10/8)- ****


----------



## Bubz

Yeah's sig has really made me want to see Kobashi wrestle his last match with a red nose on.


----------



## seabs

Yeah1993 said:


> I saw Ishii in a tag recently and he was solid but kind of annoying. Can someone give me five-ten Ishii matches from 2012 to watch where he looks really good?


*5/20 vs Goto
7/19 w/ Nakamura & Tanaka vs Tanahashi, Goto & Akebono
5/27 w/ Nakamura, Okada & YOSHI-HASHI vs Tanahashi, Goto, Naito & Tonga
12/2 w/ Nakamura vs Sakuraba & Shibata

Isn't a load of "great Ishii matches" per se but he always delivers a great performance in everything he's in. The Goto match is definitely great though. The Nagata match from 11/12 last year was an awesome 10 minute example of why Ishii is so great. 

Hopefully the Ishii/Nakamura tags from the tag league surface soon.*


Nervosa said:


> I'm still in the process of watching more from him, so I haven;t seen nearly enough, but here are some of my favorites:
> 
> Nakamura, Ishii, Okada vs. Naito, tanahashi, Goto
> Ishii vs. Goto
> Ishii, Yano, Iizuka vs. Stong Man, Nagata, Nakanishi
> Ishii/Nakamura vs. Laughter7
> Ishii, Nakamura, Okada, yujiro vs. Tanahashi, Anderson, goto, tonga
> Ishii, Nakamura, tanaka vs. Tanahashi, Goto, Akebono
> 
> Seabs, have you seen that last one, with Akebono? Ake missing an elbow only for Ishii to follow up and yell 'brainbuster' on a man he clearly won't lift is awesome.


*I brought the show just for the Ishii/Akebono interactions and it was well worth it. That spot is so awesome. While you're going through this stuff you should watch the MiSu 8 man from the same show as the Ishii/Akekbono 6 man. So much fun and it has TAKA/Taichi being the greatest goofballs going.*


EmbassyForever said:


> vs Okada? vs Tanaka?


*Okada match was average. He's had a crazy amount of matches with Tanaka but I can't remember any of them being great.*


----------



## Bubz

Just watched Goto/Ishii, wasn't that into it until Ishii threw that first headbutt at which point it became awesome. Just a bomb fest but with great selling to boot. Yeah, really enjoyed it. Best part was Ishii trying to fire up after the backdrop (I think?) and then falling about like a drunk.


----------



## Groovemachine

I just watched Goto/Ishii too! Never seen Ishii before, loved how charismatic he was, he made me a fan of his in that one match. Little things like clutching his chest, selling the shoulder barges from the opening moments, they were great, and he seems very expressive. I echo Bubz's thoughts exactly; didn't overly care about the early goings-on, as they were basically just trading clotheslines and stiff strikes. But yeah, then the headbutts came and it escalated from there. Anyway, I'll certainly be checking out some of these Ishii 8-man tags that have been mentioned here, the guy's a beast.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Lord Santa Claus IV. said:


> *Okada match was average. He's had a crazy amount of matches with Tanaka but I can't remember any of them being great.*


*
I was talking about their match at May if you thought I was refering to their last match in the last iPPV. If you talked about this match too, I'd love to hear why it was average because it's a strong MOTYC imo.

About Tanaka - The New Begining. Thought it was really good.*


----------



## seabs

*Ishii LOVE :mark:.

I was talking about their title match fyi. Goto doesn't get me to care about anything he does. There wasn't much wrong with it, just didn't interest me.*


----------



## Nervosa

Lord Santa Claus IV. said:


> *Ishii LOVE :mark:.
> 
> I was talking about their title match fyi. Goto doesn't get me to care about anything he does. There wasn't much wrong with it, just didn't interest me.*


Agree with this. Goto made me not care about an Okada match..........and that is hard to do. 

Seriously, I may have enjoyed Okada's singles match with Captain New Japan better than his title match with Goto.


----------



## flag sabbath

Chris Masters vs Kris Travis and Noam Dar vs John Morrison from PCW's Festive Fury last night were both in the **** range.

Masters' facial expressions did as much to sell Travis's offence as his excellent bumps & body language, and the more mainstream match structure worked a treat. Morrison and Dar went for epic, mixing up WWE & Indie stylings. The match was in danger of being overcooked at times, but the crowd was going nuts by the end leaving a really strong impression.


----------



## Obfuscation

*TNA Impact 5/24/12* - _TNA World Heavyweight Championship_
Robert Roode(c) vs AJ Styles ~ ****​
GREAT wrestling match. Nice touch on showing Styles looking towards the entrance ramp for Daniels & Kazarian. His mind has been lost this entire year thanks to them. This match was no different. What I was into was the crisp work by both men. 13 minutes of just quality wrestling. On the taped Impact too. So glad they gave this time. I liked this more than my first time around. Probably won't make my top 20 list, although it's gonna make my list for best matches from this year. One of my favorite TV matches from any promotion. (which means 3 and ROH stinks, so really only WWE )

Re-watch bug hit me. I should hit up some more TV matches atm. Probably Sheamus vs Danielson Street Fight from RAW.


----------



## EmbassyForever

*TNA Final Resolution 2012:* 
Christopher Daniels vs AJ Styles - ***3/4+

Bobby Roode vs Jeff Hardy with better finish could've been 4* match for me. Sadly the way the match ended ruined the match for me, but still great ***1/2 match.


----------



## djmathers1207

AJ Styles vs. Christopher Daniels ****-****1/2


----------



## ADC

Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Minoru Suzuki or one of the Daniel Bryan vs. CM Punk matches.


----------



## The Lady Killer

flag sabbath said:


> Chris Masters vs Kris Travis and Noam Dar vs John Morrison from PCW's Festive Fury last night were both in the **** range.
> 
> Masters' facial expressions did as much to sell Travis's offence as his excellent bumps & body language, and the more mainstream match structure worked a treat. Morrison and Dar went for epic, mixing up WWE & Indie stylings. The match was in danger of being overcooked at times, but the crowd was going nuts by the end leaving a really strong impression.


I need to see both of these, particularly the JoMo match.


----------



## Chismo

*TNA Final Resolution 2012*
Bully Ray vs. Austin Aries

_Great match, fours f’n stars, yeah. Come at me. Tremendous chemistry between these two, even with the roles reversed. Damn, Aries’ character work is top notch, unparalleled. He was such a great and vicious little prick here, playing mind games with Bully almost all the time. They even made an ubercool callback on Hogan vs. Warrior, lol. Crazy. Bully busted out few great power moves, he’s extremely agile for his size. But you already knew that. Love this match, I didn’t even mind the questionable bleedjob (shit like that is secondary anyway) and the Hogan family interference, because they didn’t spam it. Liked the ending too, because it means MOAR of Bully vs. Aries, yeah! This time in a hardcore environment, I hope._
*Rating: *****


*TNA Final Resolution 2012*
Christopher Daniels vs. AJ Styles

_Oh, yeah! Excellent encounter, really loved this. The storytelling was great, with Daniels trying to play his usual psychological games, trying to get into AJ’s head, and there was also a nice mini-arc with AJ regaining some of his confidence during the match. Awesome stuff. Loved the apron spots, and especially when Daniels slammed AJ onto the chairs. That was brutal. The finishing stretch was great, you could feel AJ’s desperation and the lack of focus. And then Daniels beats him with his own finishing move. In their final battle. The ultimate disgrace, and a great story touch. Love this match._
*Rating: ****1/4*


----------



## Yeah1993

So Aries is heel and Ray is face? I watched their Sacrifice match like two hours ago and really liked it. That sounds intriguing. I watched AJ/Daniels from (wherever the fuck they had the LMS) and liked that a lot, too. I should check both out.

Did Masters work babyface in that match? I've seen a few Masters matches this year but he's been heel in all but one of them. And even that one he hit a heelish low blow when the ref was down.


----------



## Obfuscation

^Destination X was the Last Man Standing match, breh.

DETAILED thoughts on Bully vs Aries I? idk if you've seen my posts on it, but I've pimped the hell out of it.


----------



## Yeah1993

When did BuhBuh get so great? I suspect he's always had that in him but was in a tag team forever. I should go back and watch some Dudleys stuff and pay close attention to Ray. He's really, really good in that quasi-monster heel role and they had a little Sting/Vader-ish thingy going. Aries took that looney bump off the top rope to the floor and THAT BRAINBUSTER. Also Aries bit the calf. Ups it by **4/9. The whole thing sort of felt like Punk/Henry from 4/2 but with an actual ending run. I didn't like it AS much as Punk/Henry, but yeah.

Also I fucking loved the Bully/Joseph Park match from Slammiversary and I can't think of any wrestler shittier than Abyss. I didn't love the ending, but that match was seriously done really well.


----------



## Obfuscation

Look back at Bully's 2002 run on RAW. I was pulling for him to break out as a singles guy in a big way around that time.

I have Bully vs Aries above Punk vs Henry 4/2 by a bit. Bully vs Aries is my pick for TNA MOTY so that's why it's a lock.

I see you've noticed the power of arks

It saved Abyss' stale/bad career. Abyss once was an awesome monster, imo.


----------



## Chismo

I notice a trend, everyone who appreciates small things and details in wrestling loves Ray and Aries, and loves their Sacrifice match as well. Nice to notice. Yeah, it's my pick for the TNAMOTY too. Their FR match was great too, Aries channelin' his inner HULKSTER was dope.


----------



## Obfuscation

Any everyone who marks for spots loves Roode vs Storm BFG? I agree.


----------



## Chismo

Well, I love both Ray/Aries and Storm/Roode. I'm one versatile fucker.


----------



## flag sabbath

Yeah1993 said:


> Did Masters work babyface in that match? I've seen a few Masters matches this year but he's been heel in all but one of them. And even that one he hit a heelish low blow when the ref was down.


I don't recall any significant heelisms from Masters - they basically worked a competitive match with the crowd split 50-50.


----------



## seabs

*There's a classic Masters Superstars performance with Stixx from IPW:UK this year. I'll try and upload it at some point. TLK and Moops will like it given their love for Superstars era Masters. Travis is very good so I have no trouble believing that match was great even if it doesn't sound like a Superstars type Masters match. Masters needs to pop up more in 2012 than he has in 2012. Morrison too actually.*


----------



## Bubz

So there are people who don't think Morrison sucks then? Because I always thought I was weird or something for thinking he was nowhere as bad as people made him out to be.


----------



## ADC

Have Aries and Bully Ray had more than one match? Because I watched their PPV match from a few months ago and while it was good I didn't see it as MOTY worthy.


----------



## Bubz

They had one on Sunday just gone at the ppv, but I haven't seen it yet. You are thinking of the right one though because they only had one other match against each other, was at Sacrifice. It's a great match.


----------



## The Lady Killer

Lord Santa Claus IV. said:


> *There's a classic Masters Superstars performance with Stixx from IPW:UK this year. I'll try and upload it at some point. TLK and Moops will like it given their love for Superstars era Masters. Travis is very good so I have no trouble believing that match was great even if it doesn't sound like a Superstars type Masters match. Masters needs to pop up more in 2012 than he has in 2012. Morrison too actually.*


 plz



Bubz said:


> So there are people who don't think Morrison sucks then? Because I always thought I was weird or something for thinking he was nowhere as bad as people made him out to be.


Morrison is THE MAN.


----------



## Corey

Bubz said:


> So there are people who don't think Morrison sucks then? Because I always thought I was weird or something for thinking he was nowhere as bad as people made him out to be.


Yeah, we're still out here. I liked Morrison pretty much his whole career. His FCA match with Miz last year is my TV Match of the Year for 2011. I'd like to see him brought back at some point honestly Along with Masters if they push him this time.


----------



## Nervosa

JoeRulz said:


> I notice a trend, everyone who appreciates small things and details in wrestling loves Ray and Aries, and loves their Sacrifice match as well. Nice to notice. Yeah, it's my pick for the TNAMOTY too. Their FR match was great too, Aries channelin' his inner HULKSTER was dope.


:sad::sad::sad::sad::sad:

I guess I don't like little things much. Granted, I loved the story of the match, but I was just too bothered by the unecessary Park stuff, as I've said. I also think the finish was more than a little flat. Still TNA's MOTY though.

I really respect most of the people who love this match, I just can't get there. Run-ins and outside interference are just cardinal sins for me.


----------



## Yeah1993

Watched Richards v Elgin. It was pretty bad. Davey gets a lot of shit and I've given him a lot of shit about no-selling, when he kinda sucks crap when he actually does sell. He looks like a cartoon character getting hit in the head with a frying pan. Laughed my head off at him doing the 'tough guy' head-nodding when Elgin elbowed him. Elgin looks like a complete boring drone.

On a side-note more people need to start watching 2012 Dean Allmark and Damian Wayne.


----------



## Obfuscation

Bubz said:


> So there are people who don't think Morrison sucks then? Because I always thought I was weird or something for thinking he was nowhere as bad as people made him out to be.


I don't understand it either. I was always a fan.



Yeah1993 said:


> Watched Richards v Elgin. It was pretty bad. Davey gets a lot of shit and I've given him a lot of shit about no-selling, when he kinda sucks crap when he actually does sell. He looks like a cartoon character getting hit in the head with a frying pan. Laughed my head off at him doing the 'tough guy' head-nodding when Elgin elbowed him. Elgin looks like a complete boring drone.
> 
> On a side-note more people need to start watching 2012 Dean Allmark and Damian Wayne.


Finally. Match stinks. I said it was "good" for them. Doesn't mean it was naturally a good match. Combining those two bad workers, well it can't be anything noteworthy.


----------



## Yeah1993

Almost the whole time they looked like two nine year old brothers mimicking the wrestling they were seeing on TV in their lounge room.


----------



## Obfuscation

Match officially buried.

:lol


----------



## JAY JAY millz

lol i really wanna see this match, not because of the hype, but because of the anti-hype. Sometimes those are the best matches to watch because you can honestly watch them and make your own decision since you have heard both sides of the argument. God bless you ring of honor for dividing fans the way you do. Makes it fun again


----------



## Kid Kamikaze10

I find this burying of Elgin/Richards hilarious.

Mostly because in retrospect, the complaints are true.


----------



## Nervosa

Only watched it once, and I loved it. Maybe I'm losing my grip on reality. Or maybe I just need to rewatch it.


----------



## Yeah1993

JAY JAY millz said:


> lol i really wanna see this match, not because of the hype, but because of the anti-hype. Sometimes those are the best matches to watch because you can honestly watch them and make your own decision since you have heard both sides of the argument. God bless you ring of honor for dividing fans the way you do. Makes it fun again


I watch matches I know I'll dislike just for....IDK why. And not just those matches that others like that I'll dislike. Like in 2010 I'd watch the divas NXT matches just to see the shitty botches and stuff because it was funny. Richards v Elgin isn't really in this category because it wasn't really a match I *know* I'd dislike, but I would've been surprised had I found it that good b/c of my anti-Richards-ness. I watched Richards/Elgin because it has MOTYC-hype and is the most praised match from ROH this year and I want a general view of 2012. When I do 2011 I'll watch Richards/Edwards, as well.



Nervosa said:


> Only watched it once, and I loved it. Maybe I'm losing my grip on reality. Or maybe I just need to rewatch it.


Or maybe you just liked it.


----------



## Obfuscation

You're going to watch both Davey vs Edwards matches from 2011? Oh, you're in for a treat.


----------



## Violent By Design

richards vs edwards from 11...meh..honestly its the same quality as the other ROH main events of recent times and that isnt a good thing.


----------



## Kid Kamikaze10

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> You're going to watch both Davey vs Edwards matches from 2011? Oh, you're in for a treat.


Oh god, is that the "superplex then a suplex out of the ring" match?


----------



## Obfuscation

I think it is. I try to remove the taint from both matches. Tbhayley my interest in Final Battle wore out pretty quickly into the match. I know fans went APE for the double stomp through the table spot at Best in the World. Then I think it was followed by a "this is wrestling" chant. :|


----------



## JAY JAY millz

I love best in the world personally, i know im gonna get heat but i think it was so solid and i legit had a tear in the eye when davey won the belt.

It was almost the same feeling i had when benoit won the belt. I legit love when a hard worker wins the belt. I don't give a crap about hype of any of that jazz. Davey had gone through alot and he deserved to be at the top at the time. Plus he earned that belt in that match


----------



## Obfuscation

Safe to say our emotions differ greatly at the end of that match + post match promo.


----------



## Cactus

Nervosa said:


> Only watched it once, and I loved it. Maybe I'm losing my grip on reality. Or maybe I just need to rewatch it.


I loved it too on my first watch. Got sucked into Nigel egging on Elgin. On the second watch, I thought it was fucking terrible though. 



Cactus said:


> *Random Rewatch:
> Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin - ROH Showdown in the Sun Day 2*
> 
> I really don't know why I was so high on this when I first watched this. It was probably the spots that lured me in on my first time but on a second watch I can really see how terrible this match was. There are admittedly some awesome looking spots like the top rope tiger suplex and the fisherman's buster to the floor but there really is nothing behind them and both guys brush themselves off and no-sell their way to next less-impressive spot.
> 
> Davey's flaws really can be seen here. Elgin is meant to be a fucking machine and he should be dominating Davey for a good portion of the start and middle of the match but he just keeps fucking reversing everything and it makes Elgin look like any other ROH midget. It's okay to reverse the odd move and hint at a comeback when you are doing a big man vs little man match but Davey really took the piss and killed any sense of structure that Elgin was building.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, Elgin wasn't exactly a star here and he's certainly no Mark Henry when it comes to establishing himself as a force to be reckoned with. While Davey's levels of no-selling Elgin's suplexes did really annoy me, Elgin kept resorting to that 'Fighting Sprint' comeback way too many times and it was almost comical. One of the best parts of the match was due to Elgin trying to do his little comeback but collapses due to the punishment his ankle has taken. It's the first sign of selling in this match and it was awesome... until Elgin decides to resort back to no-selling once again.
> 
> I'm going on way too much. It's funny how I sometimes struggle to come up with 4-5 lines why I love a match but when tearing this match a new asshole, it all comes naturally. In a nutshell, Richards/Elgin is unstructured mess of a match which spots I would enjoy on their own, but it's really not worth the effort to sit through this sorry excuse of a match.
> 
> *Rating: ★¾*


I'm on the same boat with Edwards/Richards at BITW last year. I loved it initially, but on a rewatch it felt like bit of a mess and even if you visually sell a limb, it means jackshit if that injury isn't going to disable you from pulling of big moves. That's a main problem I have with Davey's selling when he does choose to sell. 

I will give credit where credit is due and I will say that I loved ending spot where Davey boots Eddie in the head and the opening 10 minutes or so were solid stuff.


----------



## Obfuscation

I would do the obligatory "how could Meltzer give that 5 stars" comment. Not going to. That guy is so out of touch with what generally makes a good match these days. It leaves me wondering why he even continues to watch.

He seems to recognize what's brilliant about NJPW at least.


----------



## seabs

Yeah1993 said:


> On a side-note more people need to start watching 2012 Dean Allmark and Damian Wayne.


*And my life is complete. 

Think I've only seen 1 Wayne match this year but I haven't seen a whole lot get posted and pimped.

Richards/Elgin I liked when I saw it. It's not great but as far as the ROH style of main events go, it was a lot better than any of the others and I was happy calling it a very good match. *


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I liked it a bit more than Cactus, but yeah overall it wasn't a match that won me over when I heard the praise for it going in. Davey did sell for most of the match, even though the only time the selling actually really played into a sequence was Elgin's great slip when trying to stand after being in an ankle lock leading to Davey hitting a running kick. I thought the pacing and structure was off for the most part. They had this weird pacing where both guys would go on offence every 2-3 minutes rather than letting one guy get a consistent workover. This was particularly problematic when Elgin hit that beautiful counter on the outside to establish control and really should have been allowed to destroy Richards and make you question how he could come back and retain, but instead nothing really kicked off from that transition spot and they just sort of traded control before the finishing stretch.

I can see why people can look at how it made Elgin look legit (in the eyes of the ROH fans in attendance, as I didn't really think it came close to other breakthrough matches/performances) and why people who love the ROH style would dig it, but its just not a match for me. It wasn't as bad as I feared going in, but it was hardly that much better than I could have expected.

I really should watch more Allmark. I think I'll watch the Mason series over the next couple of days. I've seen bits and pieces of Wayne, a match with Escobar from June that was pretty good (but not as good as I'd seen others pimp it) and a brawl/No DQ match in some obscure setting which again had some great things going for it but overall wasn't 'amazing'. He has really good punches and is a good heel, also seems to be able to work a more general indy match and put enough structure, pacing and selling into it for a lot of the bigger spots to have meaning. The Escobar match for example had a few sequences that could have been really bad if they weren't timed/sold as well as they were, the suicide dive into a DDT on the guardrail being an obvious one here.

Watch this if you haven't already Yeah1993:






Really good and fun match. Think I'm right in saying it was Seabs who pimped this match and got me to check it out. Certainly didn't disappoint and another feather in the Finlay indy run.


----------



## Bubz

I really dug Elgin/Richards back when I watched it too. OMG Yeah1993 mentioned Davey's 'tough man head nodding'! Jesus it's the worst thing I've ever seen.


----------



## septurum

Davey Richards vs. Michael Elgin (ROH Showdown in the Sun Day 2 3/31)- **** 1/2


----------



## ADC

Allmark has potential, but he picks up a lot of bad habits from All-Star, he's the equivelant of a cruise ship singer auditioning for The X Factor. He panders to the crowd too much, but he definately has the skills.


----------



## septurum

Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki (NJPW 10/8) - **** 3/4


----------



## ADC

I'd say the no rules match between Maybach Taniguchi and Takeshi Morishima for the NOAH GHC Heavyweight championship has to be a contender.


----------



## Groovemachine

Meh, Elgin/Richards is still my MOTY. I'd put it down to live bias as I was totally marking out in person, but then I still loved it on a rewatch. I can understand some of the criticisms levied against it, but I wouldn't necessarily agree with them. Personally I thought the match made Elgin a star. Since the match, he's relied too heavily on the 'kick out at 1' comeback towards the end of his matches, but back in March it was pretty cool and made him look like a beast, especially as it was done at just the right moment when everyone legit thought the match was over. Hey, I'm in the relative minority in thinking it was a terrific contest, but I thought I'd voice my opinion and come to its defense!


----------



## djmathers1207

Richards/Elgin is a legit 5 star match. The crowd was hot the entire match and was clearly divided on who to cheer for, which bugs me about WWE & TNA fans. The spot where Davey kicked him and Elgin kicking out at 1 was awesome. Even Nigel on commentary was great. He was so into the match as well. If you don't like the match, that's fine.


----------



## Bruce L

My #1 MOTY is Okada/Tanahashi (6/16), which is a great example of how a clear, focused story based on smart, consistent work can make a great match.

My #2 MOTY is Richards/Elgin (_Showdown in the Sun_), which is a great example of how "two guys are gonna fight; who's gonna win?" can be more than enough of a story enough to make a great match all by itself.


----------



## seabs

ADC said:


> He panders to the crowd too much, but he definately has the skills.


*..... this isn't a bad thing.*


----------



## geraldinhio

Mystery vortex looks epic to say the least and really happy at how DDT4 is shaping up. PWG have another awesome year. I just wish I went unspoiled for mystery vortex,like imagine how awesome it would be not even knowing the card. I just couldn't help myself. Also why dafuq hasn't WWE or TNA picked up on Brian Cage?

Also why is JoeRulz humbled? :/


----------



## Bubz

Think he did something to annoy Roman King.

PWG's year has disappointed me in this second half, although Mystery Vortex looks like it could see them back at their best.


----------



## geraldinhio

I still thoroughly enjoyed the second half being honest. Only thing PWG did that annoyed me was booking Younger.


----------



## blink_41sum_182

Groovemachine said:


> Meh, Elgin/Richards is still my MOTY. I'd put it down to live bias as I was totally marking out in person, but then I still loved it on a rewatch.


Same. I went in to the match wishing we'd gotten tickets to Night 1 but that match was fucking amazing. Me and my friend were on the rail and as soon as I got back to my 70 year old uncle, he just looks at me and says "5 stars." I thought it was more along the lines of **** 1/4 then when I rewatched it, I liked it even more and have it at **** 1/2 and one of my top 3 matches of the year. 

I don't give a fuck what anyone else thinks.


----------



## Yeah1993

WOOLCOCK said:


> I liked it a bit more than Cactus, but yeah overall it wasn't a match that won me over when I heard the praise for it going in. Davey did sell for most of the match, even though the only time the selling actually really played into a sequence was Elgin's great slip when trying to stand after being in an ankle lock leading to Davey hitting a running kick.


No joke, when Davey ate a big move and Elgin was picking was him up to do something else I was enjoying it for ten seconds, then Elgin gives him a turnbuckle powerbomb which Davey decides is the best time to land on his feet and run a Elgin with a kick.



WOOLCOCK said:


> I can see why people can look at how it made Elgin look legit (in the eyes of the ROH fans in attendance, as I didn't really think it came close to other breakthrough matches/performances) and why people who love the ROH style would dig it, but its just not a match for me. It wasn't as bad as I feared going in, but it was hardly that much better than I could have expected.


I have a bit of a question about that, did that like 'make' Elgin for people as a great worker or as a guy who can kayfabe hang with 'one of the greats' in Richards (*cough*)? Because either way Elgin looks to be one of the most boring drones I've ever seen. He looks like the kind of guy who doesn't have a voice.

Already watched the Finay/Allmark tag. Probably only my third favourite match from this year so far and I haven't seen that many. Is he top ten in the world? I've only been watching US & Euro so far but man he shouldn't be wrestling mostly where only people with handhelds can tape him.


----------



## Nervosa

I just want to say..........where were all of you people when Richards/Edwards from BITW first came out and I was the only person on the thread talking about how shit it was?!?!?!?! seriously, I was saying all the same stuff about how everything in that match was done for NO FUCKING REASON and I was all alone. 

I mean, better late then never people, but anyone who hates Richards vs. elgin has to hate Edwards/Richards from BITW even more for the exact same reasons.


----------



## seabs

*The match established Elgin as a top guy in ROH kayfabe speaking. I guess if the commentators put someone over enough then some people are gonna buy into it right? Or at least if DAVE does then they will. That was by miles his best showing I've ever seen from him. Still haven't seen anything from him that proves he's as good a worker as some people think though. I think for fans of the current ROH style they'll like anyone in that role who can pull their moves off.

Allmark tapes and uploads all them matches on youtube himself. Or at least his mate does. He's the head trainer at All-Star Wrestling UK with Mason (or something along those lines) so I guess he's pretty settled and happy in that role. He turns up on British Indy DVDs too on the undercard. I'd strongly consider for him for best worker of 2012. Need to catch up though. I'm behind on his youtube page all the way back to June now. Fucking assignments. It's funny how every match he uploads has "this was my 3rd/4th/etc match of the day" under the description. The All Star crew are pretty great (Allmark/Mason/Rampage/Dynamite). Sucks that more Mason doesn't turn unless it's with Allmark. There's a Mason/Zebra Kid match that's on youtube that's great. The whole All Star Legends show on Dean's page is awesome actually and there's another Finlay match btw. British wrestling scene has a ton of unearthed great workers right now that get no appreciation while Elgin and Davey get BITW thrown at them like it's nothing. 

I remember WOOLCOCK spending the 2nd half of 2011 saying he'd watch that Mason/Allmark series. No faith man. That series last summer was so fun. Great wrestling and great angles. Them 2 rule.

Luke Gallows vs Charlie Dreamer - OSF 07.04.2012

Moops did you watch that ^. Can't remember if you were praising the Galllows/Davis matches from last year with WOOLCOCK but I can't see you not liking that. Gallows beats a skinny kid up all over a gym and Dreamer ends up being really good too. It's on their Youtube show for that date.*


----------



## Yeah1993

Watched a Legends show with Allmark v Zebra Kid, I think. I remember some tags on the show, but it was kinda my first time watching the guys so I recognised almost no one.  Same show with Finlay/Danny Boy Collins, both were real good shit as well. I'm going to need to see the rest of Fit's run. Liked his match with Roddy Strong.

I've been watching some Rampage/Dynamite/Mason/other British dudes I've never seen before this month, etc. Did you see Rampage v Jack Gallagher? Gallagher was going in the massive underdog because Rampage is a giant machine or something and Gallagher was expecting someone else. The announcer was selling he shit out of it. Did you watch Dave Mastiff v Stixx and/or Mastiff v Sami Callihan? I'm liking Mastiff quite a bit.

I just finished watching Gallows/Dreamer like twenty minutes ago, actually. Gallows is a monster. Gallows' feud with Davis was rekindled this year so I gotta watch that + what they did last year. I didn't catch nothing last year. I watched some Gallows (and Masters) in Ring Ka King and it was OK.


----------



## seabs

_*It was Mason vs Zebra Kid on the Legends Show with Finlay/Collins. Allmark had a great little match with Johnny Storm on that show.

Haven't watched anything in months so I'm way behind on stuff that's come up recently so I haven't seen it. 

Mastiff is fucking awesome. I've been trying to get him over for a few years now since he had a great singles match with Go Shiozaki. Might have been Go's best singles match off the top of my head. Mastiff ruled in it. The Stixx match is ok. Sami match rules. Almost everything I want from my wrestling. The whole show it's off is great actually. Awesome Finlay match on there too with Martin Kirby. There's a great Mastiff/Travis match this year from PCW. Imma upload some of this British stuff I have on DVD before the end of the year for people. I'm surprised NOAH never brought him over as he's had great matches with nearly all their top heavyweights - Shiozaki, Sugiura, Morishima. Warmed my heart when that Mastiff/Sami match got posted on WKO and everyone started jumping on the Mastiff bandwagon off the back of it. *_


----------



## Yeah1993

If you upload that Finlay/Kirby match sometime that'd be awfully nice of you.

I still need watch Mastff v whatever his name is that's on DM. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xp...an-gresham-vs-dave-mastiff_sport#.UMkVToNhCWb


----------



## sharkboy22

I'm just going to ask, how the heck do you guys keep up with NJPW, PWG, CMLL and all these other promotion. Damn, reading through these posts makes me feel like I don't even belong here lol.


----------



## Bubz

Puro and Lucha are all mostly on Youtube or Dailymotion or the media section here. For PWG or other indie stuff the media section is your best bet.


----------



## DOPA

Elgin/Richards is my MOTY.

By the way looking at some of the ratings people give matches, I think my ratings are a bit too generous :/


----------



## septurum

Nervosa said:


> I just want to say..........where were all of you people when Richards/Edwards from BITW first came out and I was the only person on the thread talking about how shit it was?!?!?!?! seriously, I was saying all the same stuff about how everything in that match was done for NO FUCKING REASON and I was all alone.
> 
> I mean, better late then never people, but anyone who hates Richards vs. elgin has to hate Edwards/Richards from BITW even more for the exact same reasons.


Because it seems to be the cool thing to hate on Richards and Elgin now. When that match first came out, everyone on here (except you) was pissing their pants over it. Now they all hate it. Fucking bullshit if you ask me. Cactus gave it **** 1/2 at first and now he gives it * 3/4 (ratings are off the top of my head, forgive me if they are wrong). That is a pretty drastic drop. I thought the match was exciting as all hell and had me hooked from bell to bell. Sure there was no psychology and the selling was inconsistent but the point of wrestling is to entertain and that match did that for me in spades. (Edit: Oh, you are talking about another match. I was talking about SITS Shit.  It pays to read. )


----------



## Russian Hooligan

Kota Ibushi vs Kenny Omega - DDT 18.08.2012 ****3/4


----------



## Nervosa

septurum said:


> Because it seems to be the cool thing to hate on Richards and Elgin now. When that match first came out, everyone on here (except you) was pissing their pants over it. Now they all hate it. Fucking bullshit if you ask me. Cactus gave it **** 1/2 at first and now he gives it * 3/4 (ratings are off the top of my head, forgive me if they are wrong). That is a pretty drastic drop. I thought the match was exciting as all hell and had me hooked from bell to bell. Sure there was no psychology and the selling was inconsistent but the point of wrestling is to entertain and that match did that for me in spades. (Edit: Oh, you are talking about another match. I was talking about SITS Shit.  It pays to read. )


lol yeah, sorry, I'm talking about BITW last year.

I actually still like Richards/Elgin, but I have only seen it once. Need to rewatch it soon.

But Edwards/Davey..........hated from the moment I saw it, at a time when I was the only one on the board hating it. Now, a year later, people are seeing how shit it really was. Hell, that match is probably most responsible for hte Davey we have today.

What people HAVENT realized yet is that all the things they hate about Davey are things Eddie Edwards does EVEN MORE and seems to never get criticized for it. Edwards is one of my least favorite wrestlers alive.


----------



## Bubz

Nervosa bringing back the Eddie HATE~!

I've seen Davey/Elgin and enjoyed it quite a lot both times. Honestly maybe because of the commentary and crowd reaction, because put that match infront of a dead crowd and with Prazak or someone commentating and I bet I'd like it so much less.


----------



## Obfuscation

I hated both Davey vs Edwards matches & Davey vs Elgin after the first watch. I'm the exception to the rule.


----------



## Nervosa

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> I hated both Davey vs Edwards matches & Davey vs Elgin after the first watch. I'm the exception to the rule.


I don't think you're an exception at all. I think anyone who hates Davey/Elgin HAS TO hate Davey/Edwards. Your position makes perfect sense to me.

The people I don't understand are the ones ok with Eddie/Davey and not ok with Elgin/Davey.


----------



## Bubz

Elgin/Davey was a hell of a lot better than Davey/Eddie. I liked Davey/Eddie loads back when it happened. Watched it maybe about 4 months ago or something and yeah, it is bad. Nervosa did you see their Final Battle rematch? Not sure when I've ever hated watching wrestling that much before.


----------



## Nervosa

Bubz said:


> Elgin/Davey was a hell of a lot better than Davey/Eddie. I liked Davey/Eddie loads back when it happened. Watched it maybe about 4 months ago or something and yeah, it is bad. Nervosa did you see their Final Battle rematch? Not sure when I've ever hated watching wrestling that much before.


See, that makes sense to me. Even if you hate Elgin/Davey, you have to admit its better than Eddie/Davey.

No, I did not watch the Final Battle rematch. I heard 'BITW was way better' and decided there's nothing in the world that could make me want a second helping of that shit.


----------



## Obfuscation

Nervosa said:


> I don't think you're an exception at all. I think anyone who hates Davey/Elgin HAS TO hate Davey/Edwards. Your position makes perfect sense to me.
> 
> The people I don't understand are the ones ok with Eddie/Davey and not ok with Elgin/Davey.


I've seen much more love for Davey/Elgin than I have any of the Davey/Eddie matches.


----------



## Nervosa

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> I've seen much more love for Davey/Elgin than I have any of the Davey/Eddie matches.


O man, you should have seen last year's version of this thread. HO-LY-SHEEEEEEET people loved Eddie/Davey. I was absolutely surrounded. I needed a long break after those arguments. It probably got more 'match of the year' votes than anything else besides Cena/Punk. 

I needed a long sabbatical from this board after that period.


----------



## Obfuscation

Weird. I don't remember any praise. By the time Final battle rolled around and happened, that rematch was met with great & furious anger. I guess the aura of BITW rubbed off by the winter months.


----------



## septurum

Bubz said:


> I've seen Davey/Elgin and enjoyed it quite a lot both times. Honestly maybe because of the commentary .


I think Nigel is a major reason for that match being so good.


----------



## Obfuscation

Nigel puts them over like a BOSS. Even on commentary he manages to put matches on a higher level.

It reminds me of Final Battle 2011 when his commentary was the highlight of the entire show.


----------



## Bubz

Yeah definitely. He even made me enjoy parts of the Steen/Elgin title match. He's brilliant.

Definitely remember pages and pages of Nervosa and Capone arguing about Davey/Eddie lol.


----------



## Nervosa

Bubz said:


> Yeah definitely. He even made me enjoy parts of the Steen/Elgin title match. He's brilliant.
> 
> Definitely remember pages and pages of Nervosa and Capone arguing about Davey/Eddie lol.


Ah yes, the good old days. That argument, and the one over Triple H/Taker are the classics. I still think he is dead wrong about both matches, but I have a lot of respect for him being willing to argue that long. At the same time, I was an asshole. I'm going out of my way to try to have more fun on here.


----------



## Bubz

Oh god, Taker/HHH was the worst. Had idiots from the WWE forum spilling in here over that one to tell everyone who didn't like it that they were ROHbots and a bunch of other shit. That was genuinely annoying lol. I'd say it was the most active this section has been for the last three or so years though.


----------



## Obfuscation

Taker vs Triple H from WM 27? lmao that match sucked. Overrated schlock. I'd prefer it over Davey/Edwards, but that's not much of a compliment.

I'm a lifelong Undertaker fan/"mark" too. But, c'mon.


----------



## septurum

More of an angle than a match.


----------



## Obfuscation

Considering what it lead up to, yeah. Decent way of looking at it. The match tried WAY too hard to be "epic".


----------



## Nervosa

With all due respect, (because to be clear, I REALLY respect him) I have never thought less of Capone than when he pasted 'Misawa' and 'Kobashi' over his summary of Trips and Taker in order to show that they had similar stories. Probably the worst thing I have ever seen on this thread.

the match is atrocious. So many moves for no reason and then lying around.


----------



## Obfuscation

Misawa vs Kobashi level? Nah.


----------



## Nervosa

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Misawa vs Kobashi level? Nah.


No, you misunderstand. Not Kobashi/Misawa level....he went through both matches, move for move, and described how things like Triple H using a sledgehammer was comparable to Misawa's Tiger Bomb. He basically wrote a summary of Taker/Trips and substituted their names for the puro guys because he said it was the same storytelling.


----------



## Obfuscation

Sounds about the same for a comparison.


----------



## Nervosa

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Sounds about the same for a comparison.


....how, exactly?


----------



## Obfuscation

He compared the matches - replaced Taker/HHH for Kobashi/Misawa. Sounds like he placed them on the same level to me.


----------



## Nervosa

I guess thats true. For me, there's a difference between comparing tow matches and saying that two matches had an identical story. Nevertheless, I see what you mean.

By the way....

Naito vs. Okada from G1 is fantastic. Like an awesome shorter version of their first match. The leg work is excellent, again. The finishing stretch is also fantastic. in the ****1/4 range, I think.


----------



## Obfuscation

Wouldn't expect anything less from those two. I'm sure it's on dailymotion or youtube. Do I halt my movie viewing atm to watch it? Or save it for later? Those are the questions.


----------



## Nervosa

Save it for when you can enjoy it fully.

Seabs, would you say its the best G1 match? I want to make sure I'm not missing any good ones.


----------



## septurum

They did a rematch? Oh shit, gotta find it.


----------



## Obfuscation

Noted. I'll knock that out along with the elimination tag you pimped earlier in this thread. Possibly might want to cram nothing but Puro tomorrow (or post holiday project) and toss in viewing the second iPPV too.


----------



## septurum

Here:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xu...jpw-08-03-12_sport?search_algo=2#.UMlSTqxlh_Y

An early Christmas present for you all.


----------



## Obfuscation

FAVORITED~!

30 minute video. Lots of TIME :mark:


----------



## Nervosa

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Noted. I'll knock that out along with the elimination tag you pimped earlier in this thread. Possibly might want to cram nothing but Puro tomorrow (or post holiday project) and toss in viewing the second iPPV too.


DO NOT sleep on Nakamura/Okada/Ishii vs. Goto/tanahashi/Naito

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xr...amura-ishii-njpw-06-10-12_sport?search_algo=2

Very nearly just as good!


----------



## septurum

Tetsuya Naito vs Kazuchika Okada (NJPW G1 Climax 8/3) - **** 1/4 (Very close to calling this a 4.5 star match but it ended a little shorter than I would have liked. The finishing sequence was awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation

Favorited x2.

The heels are really rocking that SWAG. If only Goto would be replaced with Makabe then it would be the ultimate trios match for me. Goto is fine enough though.


----------



## Nervosa

septurum said:


> Tetsuya Naito vs Kazuchika Okada (NJPW G1 Climax 8/3) - **** 1/4 (Very close to calling this a 4.5 star match but it ended a little shorter than I would have liked. The finishing sequence was awesome.


You know a match is good when 20 minutes feels too short.



Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Favorited x2.
> 
> The heels are really rocking that SWAG. If only Goto would be replaced with Makabe then it would be the ultimate trios match for me. Goto is fine enough though.


things I love about that Trios match:
1. Ishii being a boss
2. Ishii getting the whole crowd in Korakuen (right?) to cheer for him...even over Tanahashi
3. Shinsuke rushing at Goto for Boma Ye only for Naito to spring off Goto into a dropkick
4. The interplay between Tanahashi and Naito leading to tension

I'm still not into Makabe yet, so for me, it would have to be Nagata or Anderson instead of goto, but I totally agree on everything else.


----------



## Obfuscation

:mark: I'll probably cave in and watch all these tonight. #toomuchwrestlingtowatch

Makabe has lots of charisma. I find him very appealing. The modern day Japanese Bruiser Brody. Which is a compliment I know he'll appreciate.


----------



## RKing85

tanahashi and okada

/thread


----------



## Bubz

Okada/Naito 2 is top of my to watch list for this year. Then probably the two multi-man tags that have been pimped the last few pages. Can't think of anything else I feel like watching that's recent since I'm trying to get started with Parks & Recreation and I'd imagine that will end up stealing most of my time.

I know Seabs would say Dean Allmark, but then I'm sure he'd tell me to watch Parks over him?


----------



## seabs

sharkboy22 said:


> I'm just going to ask, how the heck do you guys keep up with NJPW, PWG, CMLL and all these other promotion. Damn, reading through these posts makes me feel like I don't even belong here lol.


*I don't watch ROH or most of the other major Indies anymore so it's a lot easier to catch more obscure matches on youtube. Same for Japan bar New Japan right now.*


Nervosa said:


> I guess thats true. For me, there's a difference between comparing tow matches and saying that two matches had an identical story. Nevertheless, I see what you mean.
> 
> By the way....
> 
> Naito vs. Okada from G1 is fantastic. Like an awesome shorter version of their first match. The leg work is excellent, again. The finishing stretch is also fantastic. in the ****1/4 range, I think.


*Yeah that match was fantastic. Not enough people have watched it for sure. That was the match that got me taking Okada seriously as possible WOTY for 2012.*


septurum said:


> Tetsuya Naito vs Kazuchika Okada (NJPW G1 Climax 8/3) - **** 1/4 (Very close to calling this a 4.5 star match but it *ended a little shorter than I would have liked*. The finishing sequence was awesome.


*This made the match better.*


Bubz said:


> Okada/Naito 2 is top of my to watch list for this year. Then probably the two multi-man tags that have been pimped the last few pages. Can't think of anything else I feel like watching that's recent since I'm trying to get started with Parks & Recreation and I'd imagine that will end up stealing most of my time.
> 
> I know Seabs would say Dean Allmark, but then I'm sure he'd tell me to watch Parks over him?


*Nothing is worth watching over PARKS. Shit, nothing is worth DOING over PARKS. *


----------



## Bubz

Thought so .

*Tetsuya Naito vs. Kazuchika Okada (NJPW G1 Climax 8/3/12)*
Brilliant match. Not quite as good as their first match, but seriously it’s not that far off it either. Great leg work to set up Naito’s cut off spots by going after the leg and amazing selling from Okada. Naito has really impressed me this year, so it’s a shame about his injury. Okada is just brilliant at everything. One thing I loved about their first match was how Naito started going after his big moves because Okada started to find ways to hit his big moves, Naito forgot about his game plan and it cost him. Well, they did that again here and it was great, only this time Naito had brand new ways to avoid the Rainmaker (which were genuinely fucking incredible by the way), and was able to hit that deadly combo he wasn’t able to in their previous match. Great, great stuff with a great story and a fantastic mark out central finishing run. *****¼*

Oh yeah, and I swear these New Japan guys just have a natural ability to make the Figure Four leg lock a fucking amazing spot.

*Hiroshi Tanahashi, Hirooki Goto & Tetsuya Naito vs. Kazuchika Okada, Shinsuke Nakamura & Tomohiro Ishii (NJPW 10/6/12)*
Really fun match. Ishii and Okada were the best things in this match, closely followed by Naito. Liked the tension between Tana and Naito too. Goto kind of completely faded out after he got the hot tag which was weird. Some great exchanges between all 6 guys and a lot of fun. Definitely recommended. ****3/4 - *****


----------



## Nervosa

Bubz said:


> Naito has really impressed me this year, so it’s a shame about his injury.


I'm actually really really really worried about this. Knee injuries are bad news. I hope he can still wrestle the same high flying style when he comes back. I just always remember Mark Briscoe and how all the of the high flying awesomeness stopped after his 2008 knee injury. The Springboard Doomsday became a normal doomsday and they were never the same. Hopefully Naito has a full recovery and doesn't lose the style that set him apart. He had a great 2012.



Bubz said:


> Oh yeah, and I swear these New Japan guys just have a natural ability to make the Figure Four leg lock a fucking amazing spot.


Not to be THAT GUY but Naito's leg submission is actually an inverted Figure Four. I think its his own creation.


----------



## Obfuscation

Please, don't even begin to speculate this knee injury could ruin anything about Naito's career. I wouldn't be able to take it.


----------



## darkclaudio

TNA Final Resolution 9-12-2012

1. James Storm vs Kazarian *1/2
2. TNA X-Division Championship: Rob Van Dam (c) vs Kenny King **1/4
3. TNA World Tag Team Championship: Chavo Guerrero & Hernandez (c) vs Joey Ryan & Matt Morgan **
4. Austin Aries vs Bully Ray **3/4
5. TNA Knockouts Championship: Tara (c) vs Mickie James **
6. Kurt Angle, Garrett Bischoff, Samoa Joe & Wes Brisco vs Aces & Eights **1/2
7. Daniels vs AJ Styles ***1/4
8. TNA World Heavyweight Championship: Jeff Hardy (c) vs Bobby Roode ***


----------



## Bubz

Nervosa said:


> Not to be THAT GUY but Naito's leg submission is actually an inverted Figure Four. I think its his own creation.


Ah, can't say I noticed that. It was a great spot nonetheless. Nothing could top MiSu in the hold against Tana though. That was incredible.


----------



## Nervosa

Bubz said:


> Ah, can't say I noticed that. It was a great spot nonetheless. Nothing could top MiSu in the hold against Tana though. That was incredible.


O man, that was freaking incredible. I wish I knew japanese to know what he was saying. It was great.


----------



## Obfuscation

*NJPW 5/5/12* - *Elimination Match*

Hiroshi Tanahashi, Tetsuya Naito, Hirooki Goto, & Karl Anderson vs CHAOS _(Shinsuke Nakamura, Kazuchika Okada, Masato Tanaka, & Yujiro Takahashi)_ ~ ****

*NJPW 6/10/12*

Hiroshi Tanahashi, Tetsuya Naito, & Hirooki Goto vs CHAOS _(Shinsuke Nakamura, Kazuchika Okada, Tomohiro Ishii)_ ~ ***3/4

*NJPW 8/3/12*

Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito ~ ****1/4


All kinds of :mark:

Okada vs Naito can wrestle all day, everyday and I'll love it. Marked HARD for Naito scoring the win this time around. The counters to avoid the Rainmaker were THE BEST. I love those drama filled moments in every Okada match.


----------



## DOPA

Bit of a Japanese/Puro noob. Just watched NJPW King of Pro Wrestling which was the first full Japanese wrestling show that I've seen. Pretty much loved most of the card from top to bottom. Especially Okada/Anderson and Tanahashi/Suzuki.


----------



## Bubz

KOPW is a great place to start. If you go back a few months (16/06), Dominion is arguably an even better all around show, and my show of the year fairly easily. Definitely check that whole show out.


----------



## DOPA

I'll probably watch Power Struggle first as it was recent and would be a good follow on from KOPW just to see whats happened since KOPW but after that I'll definitely check out Dominion. Thanks for the rec (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation

Make sure you see Okada vs Naito from the 40th Anniversary show. I'd say it's probably my favorite of the year. Next to the main events of both KOPW & Dominion.


----------



## Nervosa

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Make sure you see Okada vs Naito from the 40th Anniversary show. I'd say it's probably my favorite of the year. Next to the main events of both KOPW & Dominion.


I have't formalized the list yet, but there's a good chance top 3 will be:

1. Okada vs. Naito
2. Tanahashi vs. Suzuki
3. Okada vs. Tanahashi


----------



## Obfuscation

Looks like mine. (Y)


----------



## Bubz

All three are in my top 5 right now, and will probably stay there too.

SDR/Generico from CHIKARA was really fun. I'm in awe of SDR whenever I see her tbh.


----------



## EmbassyForever

SDR/Kingston > SDR/Generico. Shame nobody's talking about this match.


----------



## Obfuscation

Bubz said:


> All three are in my top 5 right now, and will probably stay there too.
> 
> SDR/Generico from CHIKARA was really fun. I'm in awe of SDR whenever I see her tbh.


It was about the biggest dream match Chikara could have ever given me. I <3 Del Rey. Too much for words.



EmbassyForever said:


> SDR/Kingston > SDR/Generico. Shame nobody's talking about this match.


Shame nobody mentions Kingston vs Brodie Lee. AMAZING match along with those two. All 3 are superb.


----------



## Yeah1993

Kingston v Lee was awesome. Kingston had a really good 2012 from what I've seen. I need to watch Kingston v Del Rey and Kingston v Tadasuke asap.


----------



## Obfuscation

Kingston made me care about Tadasuke. Lots of quality Grand Championship matches from King this year. Yet to see the most recent bout vs Donst. Seemed it wasn't praised as great by most. I'll wait till I see it. All of their past matches have been pretty awesome and brutal. So I'm expecting something good, possibly great knowing my personal preference with both.


----------



## EmbassyForever

If you are watching Kingston's best matches, catch his match with Jigsaw too. MOTYC level in my opinion.


----------



## Concrete

I haven't seen Lee vs. Kingston and it is sadly going to be the one of the bigger Kingston defenses I will miss since I decided to shut my brain off and forget to put a SMV order in before noon yesterday. That being said, Kingston/SDR is ,for my money, one of the best matches of the year. I was pimping it earlier EmbassyForever so at least somebody is talking about it


----------



## DOPA

Finished watching NJPW Power Struggle earlier. Another really enjoyable show to watch. Not as great as King of Pro Wrestling but still very good. Really enjoyed Low Ki/Devitt, Nakamura/Anderson and the main event especially. Main event wasn't as strong as KOPW imo but still a great end to the show. Definitely going to watch more Japanese wrestling from now on. Gonna check out AJPW Pro Wrestling Love in Ryogoku Vol. 14 next and then Dominion from this year after.


----------



## Bruce L

Any chance somebody could upload Kingston vs. Lee? It's one of the few Chikara MOTYCs I haven't seen.


----------



## Yeah1993

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/0b4-DEe9R90/


----------



## Bruce L

Thanks!


----------



## EmbassyForever

El Generico vs Kevin Steen - ****1/2


----------



## MTheBehemoth

Really doubt anything on TLC will be able to top Tana/Suzuki. 
So yeah. Suzuki/Tanahashi - My MOTY.


----------



## Rickey

Match is still going, I don't care! The Shield vs. Ryback, Daniel Bryan and Kane-WWE TLC 2012

Chaos. Carnage. Craziness.


----------



## Kid Kamikaze10

Shield vs Ryback and Hell No.

That was a PWG match in a WWE PPV.

**** at least.


----------



## Nuski

The Shield vs. Ryback, Daniel Bryan and Kane. One of the best matches i've ever seen. Everybody played their part and played their part GREAT, not well, but GREAT. Amazing match


----------



## funnyfaces1

That 3-on-3 match was spectacular. Every spot made sense and every man in the match looked awesome afterwards.


----------



## dukenukem3do

The Shield vs. Ryback, Daniel Bryan and Kane **** The Shield look like stars tonight


----------



## Rickey

Shout out to Ziggler vs. Cena too, same show of course.


----------



## Obfuscation

Well it looks like I'm going to be having some fun when I get a hold of Final Battle & TLC.

LADDER MATCHES


----------



## ceeder

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Well it looks like I'm going to be having some fun when I get a hold of Final Battle & TLC.
> 
> LADDER MATCHES


Steenerico can't be called a ladder match, that was truly a ladder WAR(!~!).


----------



## Obfuscation

:mark:

saw the finish via a gif. Jesus CHRIST. 

Did you see their ladder match last year from Steen Wolf? If so, which was better, iyo?


----------



## Bubz

*The Shield vs Ryback & Team Hell No (WWE TLC)*
Yeah, this was great. It was worked pretty much perfectly, with Shield taking out Kane or Ryback in brutal fashion and using their experience in numbers (kayfabe wise, obviously) to eliminate them and go after Bryan. Everyone was great in this, and yeah, that means even Ryback. Bryan as an underdog just IS, and he is so over it's crazy, so the crowd naturally got behind him and the team. Bryan going crazy on all of them on the outside was :mark:, I fucking love Bryan, he's truly brilliant. Shield looked like a million bucks here, going in and fighting these guys in a brawl type of situation and coming out on top for the whole match. Made them look great and this has to get them over as tough bastards that need to be taken seriously. Great booking and brilliantly worked by everyone in the match. Really nice spots, but only one really 'big' spot that came from Rollins near the end, so it never felt like they were doing too much and all of the stuff was built to and set up really well. Great stuff. *****+*


----------



## MTheBehemoth

6-man TLC tag - ****

Very enjoyable. Not enough crazy/TLC spots to go over ****, but what they did they did right. Everyone looked good in the match and after it, which is like a freaking miracle in today's WWE.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

Steenerico (12/16/2012)- ****1/4
______________________

*DGUSA Year In Review:
Good year from DGUSA, despite the fact that they held less shows the promoted matches always delivered. Would I say that this year is better than 2011? It’s really a toss-up when you compare cards so I can’t say with certainty. Didn't really enjoy any of the factions this so I just put N/A.

DGUSA Show of the Year: Freedom Fight 2012
DGUSA Wrestler of the Year: Johnny Gargano
DGUSA Overlooked of the Year: Masaaki Mochizuki
DGUSA Faction of the Year: N/A*

Top 10 DGUSA Matches:
Johnny Gargano vs. Akira Tozawa vs. AR Fox vs. Ricochet (11/4/2012)- ****1/2+
Ki, Hulk & Tozawa vs. PAC, Ricochet & Mochizuki (3/31/2012)- ****1/2
CIMA & AR Fox vs. El Generico & Samuray Del Sol (7/28/2012)- ****1/2
Akira Tozawa vs. Masaaki Mochizuki (3/30/2012)- ****1/4
Johnny Gargano vs. Masato Yoshino (3/31/2012)- ****1/4
El Generico vs. Sami Callihan (11/3/2012)- ****
CIMA & Ricochet vs. Masaaki Mochizuki & Jimmy Susumu (1/27/2012)- ****
Akira Tozawa vs. PAC (1/27/2012)- ****
Masato Yoshino & Ricochet vs. Johnny Gargano & Chucky T (3/30/2012)- ****
Johnny Gargano vs. Akira Tozawa (7/28/2012)- ***3/4


----------



## Bubz

If a link gets seen anywhere for Steenerico from FB, will someone let me know? Dying to see that.

Without spoiling anything, how does it compare to their PWG ladder match and other Ladder War matches?


----------



## geraldinhio

*The Shield vs Ryback and Team Hell No- WWE TLC 2012*

I absolutely adored this. As Bubz said everyone in this was really good including Ryback, though it was obvious he was the worst in the match. The isolation and gang mentality of The Shield was great. Most of their offence was just triple teaming with punches, it was simple but yet very effective. I think I heard someone compare this to a PWG match which was actually a very good comparison to PWG multiman matches. In other words it was utter chaos at times. Some crazy spots in there, I don't want to ruin any. Loving The Shields booking and loved this match. ****1/4+ I'll rewatch this again soon.

Anything else worth checking out from TLC?Oddly had high hopes for Show/Sheamus. I'd say Ziggler/Cena delivered.

Also I second someone posting a link for the Ladder War.


----------



## peachchaos

The Shield vs Ryback and Team Hell No- WWE TLC 2012 ****1/4+

Amazing. Everyone should watch this.


----------



## Obfuscation

geraldinhio said:


> *The Shield vs Ryback and Team Hell No- WWE TLC 2012*
> 
> I absolutely adored this. As Bubz said everyone in this was really good including Ryback, though it was obvious he was the worst in the match. The isolation and gang mentality of The Shield was great. Most of their offence was just triple teaming with punches, it was simple but yet very effective. I think I heard someone compare this to a PWG match which was actually a very good comparison to PWG multiman matches. In other words it was utter chaos at times. Some crazy spots in there, I don't want to ruin any. Loving The Shields booking and loved this match. ****1/4+ I'll rewatch this again soon.
> 
> Anything else worth checking out from TLC?Oddly had high hopes for Show/Sheamus. I'd say Ziggler/Cena delivered.
> 
> Also I second someone posting a link for the Ladder War.


Well, if you implied you saw Sheamus/Show & Cena/DOLPH then no. Nothing else is worth seeing tbhayley.

Final Battle isn't even up on XWT yet. I must see Generico/Steen already.


----------



## Violent By Design

Dang, looks like I should have went to Final Battle .


----------



## MarkL316

I really want to give Ziggler/Cena **** but Cena really is horrible and if it wasn't for Zigglers selling that hurricanrana and flip would have looked even worse than they already did. Ziggler was great as usual though.

The 6 man tag is **** 

There were not enough crazy spots to take it over that but The Shield looked like stars especially Ambrose.


----------



## Obfuscation

Claiming that match needed more "crazy spots" is pretty bad. It was perfectly done. Every spot was timed well and felt meaningful. Tossing in more random spots wasn't needed and certainly would have taken away all the smart aspects of it.


----------



## Ali Dia

Shield v Bryan/Kane/Ryback : ****

Great match hurt a tad by the slow final few minutes but otherwise execution couldn't have been much better. Surprised how well Reigns carries himself. Doesn't give off the vibe of a green worker.


----------



## Last Chancery

ceeder said:


> Steenerico can't be called a ladder match, that was truly a ladder WAR(!~!).


Read that in Prazak's voice the first and nearly shat myself. Thanks.


----------



## sharkboy22

*Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Minoru Suzuki 10.08.12*
Amazing match. Superb psychology. Really loved this one. The limb work and sell job by both men were outstanding. The little things like Suzuki removing the badnage (and pulling it with his teeth lol) go a long way. This is a fantastic match and definitely a strong MOTYC. 

****3/4

I want to the full 5 but damn the finish just came out of nowhere. Just when the match seemed as if it was going into its finishing stretch it went into the finish, if you get what I'm saying.


----------



## Kiz

picked up the 2 matches from tlc, will post my thoughts later

first post in here :hb


----------



## MTheBehemoth

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Claiming that match needed more "crazy spots" is pretty bad. It was perfectly done. Every spot was timed well and felt meaningful. Tossing in more random spots wasn't needed and certainly would have taken away all the smart aspects of it.


We are talking about meaningful 'crazy spots', obviously. This a TLC match and the bar is pretty high, so doing a double superplex as a high spot in such match is just not gonna wow me, sorry.

I also didn't like how they took out Kane. That barrier spot *again*? And it always looks fake.


----------



## Obfuscation

SANTA SNRUB said:


> picked up the 2 matches from tlc, will post my thoughts later
> 
> first post in here :hb


:mark:



MTheBehemoth said:


> We are talking about meaningful 'crazy spots', obviously. This a TLC match and the bar is pretty high, so doing a double superplex as a high spot in such match is just not gonna wow me, sorry.
> 
> I also didn't like how they took out Kane. That barrier spot *again*? And it always looks fake.


Pretty pathetic mindset.


----------



## MTheBehemoth

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Pretty pathetic mindset.


...Ok?.. Whatever.

The match still needed better high spots.


----------



## Obfuscation

They all killed each other and the average fan _still_ wants more. Hilarious. It's why Mick Foley's promos on the ECW fans in the 90's are so legendary. b/c they're true.


----------



## Generation-Now

MTheBehemoth said:


> ...Ok?.. Whatever.
> 
> The match still needed better high spots.


yeah... you're the worst kind of fan.


----------



## MTheBehemoth

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> They all killed each other and the average fan _still_ wants more. Hilarious. It's why Mick Foley's promos on the ECW fans in the 90's are so legendary. b/c they're true.


Never was an ECW fan aka never wanted untrained morons to do crazy, pointless shit.
I didn't want them to kill each other. I wanted them to be more innovative, do new stuff. I'm not asking for a 1080 splash, I just wanted to see more creative spots. What we saw was too basic for a TLC match.
Once again - Storytelling, pacing, booking - good. Spots - Wat too basic.



Generation-Now said:


> yeah... you're the worst kind of fan.


Except I'm not one of those fans. Read and, most importantly, think before turning your fanboy rage mode on.


----------



## Generation-Now

lmao.


----------



## Obfuscation

MTheBehemoth said:


> Never was an ECW fan aka never wanted untrained morons to do crazy, pointless shit.
> I didn't want them to kill each other. I wanted them to be more innovative, do new stuff. I'm not asking for a 1080 splash, I just wanted to see more creative spots. What we saw was too basic for a TLC match.
> Once again - Storytelling, pacing, booking - good. Spots - Wat too basic.


Wasn't calling you an ECW fan. I was claiming that you are doing exactly what those fans did. Asking for too much.

Didn't realize a chokeslam on a chair or crushing Danielson's head into a chair via Blackout was basic. Not enough contrived 'climb a ladder and crash through a table' spots that have been done before, apparently.


----------



## MTheBehemoth

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Wasn't calling you an ECW fan. I was claiming that you are doing exactly what those fans did. Asking for too much.
> 
> Didn't realize a chokeslam on a chair or crushing Danielson's head into a chair via Blackout was basic. Not enough contrived 'climb a ladder and crash through a table' spots that have been done before, apparently.


The chokeslam was an ok spot I thought. Also, the crowd didnt get the Blackout spot AT ALL.
And don't be mad at me if "OMG HES GOING FOR THE PHOENIX SPLASH" was going through ALMOST every indy fan's mind (at least according to twitter), when Black was climbing that ladder at the end. I'm not saying he needed to do that. All I'm saying is - Many expected him to do that and were ready to give the match extra 1/2 just for that. Cynical? Probably. But that's just the way it is.


----------



## Obfuscation

Yeah, that's pretty bad. People on twitter assumed the most outlandish, dangerous spot ever so that makes the other spots that were done well and in good fashion weak.

Oh my.


----------



## MTheBehemoth

Um. I don't think I ever called those spots weak. Good, not great. ****, not ****1/2+.


----------



## Obfuscation

Weak. Basic. What's the difference? Nothing.

My point stands.


----------



## Bubz

Spots in the match were great. Whole thing felt like a huge brawl or a fight, and not a prop fest with huge spots for the sake of it. There's one spot where Ryback literally just throws himself onto Reigns and they go crashing into all the equipment, table, ladder and chairs and it looked unplanned, it looked like Ryback was legit trying to hurt Reigns. A spot like that says so much more than a bunch of table spots or ladder dives.


----------



## MTheBehemoth

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Weak. Basic. What's the difference? Nothing.
> 
> My point stands.


The difference is kinda obvious here.
People are just explaining why it was a great (not weak, not bad) but not a perfect match, give it the exact same rating (**** or ****1/4) but actually explain why it's not a ****1/2+ match and get blasted for it. Jesus Christ.


----------



## Kiz

shield vs ryback/bryan/kane - ****. keep in mind i havent watched any wwe programming chronologically wise since cena/brock extreme rules. so here goes.

this match is very good. you all know that. you have six very good workers putting together a very good match under tricky circumstances. the spots in this are great. everything sold tremendously well. the stuff with the chairs (chokeslam, stomp) are all good spots without going over the top. the barricade (plus the clever piling up of stuff on kane). the powerbombs. all very good spots. the match itself is very well put together. it shows how strong the workmanship and solidarity is of the shield, and how well they work together, while the other team feels forced and don't work as well together. the only spot i didn't like was the tyler/ryback multiple tables one. it would've been better if tyler went for the splash and missed, going through the table, instead of the extra risk of the extra tables. looks flashier, but you see him smack his head against the back tables. always sat uneasy with me those spots. but yeah, ****, with 6 good workers (first ryback match i've seen) putting on a very good, enjoyable match.


----------



## MarkL316

My point is I wanted to see more of the type of movesets The Shield will have now they are in WWE but I understand the match was more of a brawl, related to the gang mentality the Shield have had since they debuted. I'm starting to think after a second watch the **** rating is a little harsh.


----------



## Obfuscation

I would have loved to see Rollins bust out some of his wicked offense too, but considering the match and how it was worked he really didn't have any chances or high points to do so. He'll be able to show the world what he has when he works a more traditional bout.

Good review there KIZ.


----------



## Groovemachine

*The Shield vs Ryback, Kane & Daniel Bryan [TLC match] - WWE TLC 2012 - ****1/2*

~ In and of itself, this was clearly a good match, but it was the contextual things that made it great. As a debut match for The Shield, it was absolutely perfect. Each guy got plenty of time to shine. They looked like a well-oiled cohesive unit, and picked apart their opponents in unison like a pack of dogs. To the average viewer, they look like a force to be reckoned with. I really have to commend the booking here as well; having this solid cohesive unit go up against the tag champs who DON'T particularly work well together was a smart move. Ryback, Kane and Bryan were kept apart from each other pretty much the whole match, they never got to function as a team, and again this just puts over The Shield as a strong dynamic. Others have said this felt like a PWG match, and I'd totally get on board with that assertion; at the very least, it's up there with Lesnar/Cena as a very 'un-WWE' style match. What separates it from some of the spotfests we see on the independents is that every single spot was carefully planned out and meant something. Thoroughly enjoyed this, and I really hope we see a lot more 6-mans on a regular basis in the WWE now that The Shield have arrived.

*Dolph Ziggler vs John Cena - WWE TLC 2012 - *****

~ Enjoyed this a lot more than I thought I would. The interference detracted somewhat for me, but what Ziggler and Cena did was great. Ziggler hung extremely well in his first taste of PPV main event action and I hope this is a sign to management that he belongs there. Spots were well timed, there wasn't too much down-time but this didn't come at the expense of selling. Crowd helped things too, reacting strongly to everything. Loved them being all over Cena but then going apeshit when he lifted the ladder above his head with Ziggler on it. Good stuff all round here.


----------



## seabs

> Shield 6 man I thought was really good. Not MOTYC good but well booked and very enjoyable. Made them look great and as legit as they could look and managed to make Ryback look like a top guy as well so that was cool. Tag Champs look like massive GEEKS again but that's nothing new at all. I'd be tempted to buy a PPV ticket just to see the resurrection of guys who get written out of multi man matches like Kane did here. Did he just rise from the rubble when they went to the next video package? Danielson was great. Duh. Yet another year spent waiting for him to have a long run of 10+ minute singles matches on PPV every month to reclaim his WOTY title. I'm just begging for a year long IC/US Title run where he goes through a different midcard guy each month and has a MOTYC with everyone. Pretty sure he'd had have a MOTYC with Brodus if he fed him his lines. Might finally get my PAC/Danielson dream match soon. Ryback would probably be great if they kept him to tags and teamed him with a guy like Rey. REYBACK. They'd be the best because Ryback is fun taking guys out but he's kinda useless at everything else. Ambrose took 2 fucking ugly bumps. Double suplex on the ladder looked like a bitch and the chokeslam through the chair looked even worse because he went through the top and not the flat of the chair. Show looked like he did the same too. Rollins' big bump at the end wasn't worth it for the coverage and significance it got. Looked like he fell short and banged his head bad on the second table. Ryback looks so unsafe in this environment but I guess he wasn't too reckless in the end. Rollins is so miscast in this role. I know it's basically the AOTF role again. Spent 2 odd years in FCW as a babyface and then they debut him as a heel. Fuck was the point in those 2 years being "developed". Looked like an awesome babyface in the match too. Reigns looked better than I imagined. Ambrose was good bar the early moments when he was doing technical stuff and he looked bad. Match flowed really well and Shield looked as legit as they needed to, not just from the result but the context of the match too. I'd like to think they have a future near the top of the card but I'm still not convinced they'll keep them their and keep them looking as legit as they did here for long. ***3/4 sounds about right.


*C+P job on my thoughts on the match from another place. Probably goes off on all sorts of tangents.*


----------



## djmathers1207

Shield vs. Ryback & Team Hell No ****1/2-****1/4
John Cena vs. Dolph Ziggler- **** [****1/2 for the ending]


----------



## EmbassyForever

djmathers1207 said:


> John Cena vs. Dolph Ziggler- **** [****1/2 for the ending]


What? endind was total shit and AJ is the worst


----------



## djmathers1207

It was a better ending than what they would have come up with


----------



## rafz

WWE TLC
_The Shield vs. Ryback & Team Hell No - TLC Match_
*****1/4*


----------



## darkclaudio

WWE TLC 2012

1. Tables Match: The Rhodes Scholars (Cody Rhodes & Damien Sandow) vs Rey Mysterio & Sin Cara ***
2. US Championship: Antonio Cesaro (c) vs R-Truth *1/4
3. Intercontinental Championship: Kofi Kingston (c) vs Wade Barrett **1/4
4. TLC Match: The Shield (Dean Ambrose, Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns) vs Ryback, Team NoHell (Kane & Daniel Bryan) ****
5. Divas Championship: Eve Torres (c) vs Naomi *
6. World Heavyweight Championship - Chairs Match: The Big Show (c) vs Sheamus **3/4
7. The Miz, Alberto Del Rio & Brooklyn Brawler vs 3MB (Drew McIntyre, Jinder Mahal & Heath Slater) 1/2*
8. Money In The Bank - Ladder Match: Dolph Ziggler (c) vs John Cena ***1/2


----------



## sharkboy22

MTheBehemoth said:


> ...Ok?.. Whatever.
> 
> The match still needed better high spots.


Teh match wasn't good bcuz they werent enuff epotzz!!!

Jesus Christ, no wonder I stay so far away from this section.


----------



## Concrete

sharkboy22 said:


> Teh match wasn't good bcuz they werent enuff epotzz!!!
> 
> Jesus Christ, no wonder I stay so far away from this section.


But that was one person...


----------



## Obfuscation

Don't let one person taint the Other Wrestling section.


----------



## sharkboy22

The thing is, it's not more than one person. Obviously, if it were only one I'd be in it more often. 

In this section I find posters care more about the number of spots and moves in a match rather than an actual story. The fact that numerous posters have mentioned Rollins lack of moves in the match supports my statement. Seriously, in a brawl, in a TLC match where the story is 2 teams (one obviously more cohesive) kicking the shit out of each other, some people are more concerned with the number of moves. Of what purpose is Rollinsdoing some fancy suplex in a match like this?


----------



## MTheBehemoth

sharkboy22 said:


> Teh match wasn't good bcuz they werent enuff epotzz!!!
> 
> Jesus Christ, no wonder I stay so far away from this section.


... Can you fucking read?

I love how I give it almost the EXACT SAME rating, and yet explain why it's not a ****1/2+ match. And the fanboys go batshit crazy.

Hopefully WWE relaunches the WWEuniverse site/forum asap.


----------



## Obfuscation

sharkboy22 said:


> The thing is, it's not more than one person. Obviously, if it were only one I'd be in it more often.
> 
> In this section I find posters care more about the number of spots and moves in a match rather than an actual story. The fact that numerous posters have mentioned Rollins lack of moves in the match supports my statement. Seriously, in a brawl, in a TLC match where the story is 2 teams (one obviously more cohesive) kicking the shit out of each other, some people are more concerned with the number of moves. Of what purpose is Rollinsdoing some fancy suplex in a match like this?


Don't know what you're reading. One guy said it and this section is actually filled with good posters who generally just discuss wrestling and that's all.


----------



## MTheBehemoth

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Don't know what you're reading. One guy said it and this section is actually filled with good posters who generally just discuss wrestling and that's all.





MarkL316 said:


> I really want to give Ziggler/Cena **** but Cena really is horrible and if it wasn't for Zigglers selling that hurricanrana and flip would have looked even worse than they already did. Ziggler was great as usual though.
> 
> The 6 man tag is ****
> 
> There were not enough crazy spots to take it over that but The Shield looked like stars especially Ambrose.


At least 2.


----------



## Obfuscation

That guy revised his statement. He only wished it was more of a match to showcase the wrestling aspect of The Shield.


----------



## MTheBehemoth

Showcase the wrestling aspect in a brawl? Makes sense. Great opinion.


----------



## Obfuscation

If it wasn't a brawl, obviously.

Stop trying to make your opinion sound better. It isn't.


----------



## MTheBehemoth

If it wasn't a brawl? But it was a brawl. Lol.

I'm repeating myself because you and sharky put words in my mouth over and over and over and over again. Even now I'm not sure what exactly are you discussing. "More spotz"? For the 34242th time - Never said that.


----------



## Obfuscation

Ok, maybe it wasn't obvious to you. Since you seem to lack comprehension.

I'm not discussing much with you anymore. Did that last night. Your comment seemed to draw the ire/confusion of some posters. Which is all they were trying to get across.



MTheBehemoth said:


> We are talking about meaningful 'crazy spots', obviously. This a TLC match and the bar is pretty high, so doing a double superplex as a high spot in such match is just not gonna wow me, sorry.
> 
> I also didn't like how they took out Kane. That barrier spot *again*? And it always looks fake.





MTheBehemoth said:


> The match still needed better high spots.


Don't see how that's putting words in your mouth either.


----------



## MTheBehemoth

And... Where exactly I'm saying the match needed *more* spots?

Still waiting.


----------



## Obfuscation

You're confusing our claims of wanting "more". That doesn't mean "what was given plus more." It means replacing the spots, which were done, with over the top moments. 

Which is why nobody agreed with your point. What was done in the match was fine, good, & worked.


----------



## King Trips

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> If it wasn't a brawl, obviously.
> 
> Stop trying to make your opinion sound better. It isn't.


SHIT SON ! YOU JUST GOT :hayley1 'D !

:vince


----------



## sharkboy22

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> If it wasn't a brawl, obviously.
> 
> Stop trying to make your opinion sound better. It isn't.


:lmao

The Shield shouldn't be showcasing wrestling ability in a TLC match and quite frankly they shouldn't be displaying any wrestling ability at all imo. These guys should just be ass kickers all round. 

There is absolutely no need whatsoever for any of these men to be out there chain wrestling and getting all technical and be all about the moves.


----------



## Obfuscation

Best In The North Pole said:


> SHIT SON ! YOU JUST GOT :hayley1 'D !
> 
> :vince


haha



sharkboy22 said:


> :lmao
> 
> The Shield shouldn't be showcasing wrestling ability in a TLC match and quite frankly they shouldn't be displaying any wrestling ability at all imo. These guys should just be ass kickers all round.
> 
> There is absolutely no need whatsoever for any of these men to be out there chain wrestling and getting all technical and be all about the moves.


When someone claims if it wasn't a brawl, that implies "not a TLC match." Don't jump the gun, kid.

Besides, the point myself & the other poster made is Tyler Black/Seth Rollins has a great set of moves. It would be awesome to see him bust some out during a match in the WWE. Show the world what he's capable of. You know, wishful thinking. Nothing more and nothing less. Of course done in a different match.


----------



## JAY JAY millz

I admit i was a little let down that Rollins didn't do something off the ladder, but thats because you know he can break out the aerial moves, but at the same in the wwe universe we dont know that, and it wouldn't have made much sense for him to kill himself to sorta injure ryback.

Overall really liked the match, everyone gotta a chance to shine and they stole the entire show


----------



## sharkboy22

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> haha
> When someone claims if it wasn't a brawl, that implies "not a TLC match." Don't jump the gun, kid.
> 
> Besides, the point myself & the other poster made is Tyler Black/Seth Rollins has a great set of moves. It would be awesome to see him bust some out during a match in the WWE. Show the world what he's capable of. You know, wishful thinking. Nothing more and nothing less. Of course done in a different match.


I do hope you know the smile was because of that little joke you made and in no way I was laughing at you. There's no way I'd make fun of an official WWE DVD/Match/Show Discussion peep lol.

I'm all for Rollins busting out the odd move here or there but it's when it becomes a habit I have a problem with it. Before you know it every match would be Rollins just doing crazy ass moved with no sort of structure or meaning to the match.


----------



## MTheBehemoth

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> You're confusing our claims of wanting "more". That doesn't mean "what was given plus more." It means replacing the spots, which were done, with over the top moments.
> 
> Which is why nobody agreed with your point.* What was done in the match was fine, good, & worked*.


Which is EXACTLY what I said from the get-go. However, I actually explained why it's not a 5 star classic. 
The Blackout spot didn't work, for example. You do the hardcore version of that move? Why? 89% of your audience saw that move for the very 1st time. I mean, you can clearly hear the "wtf was that?.." reaction. Also, someone said that Ryback's ugly attack/tackle on Roman was "awesomely real" or whatever. It actually looked like both fuckers are gassed out (which was obviously the case) and like it's gonna be on the next addition of Botchamania.


----------



## Obfuscation

sharkboy22 said:


> I do hope you know the smile was because of that little joke you made and in no way I was laughing at you. There's no way I'd make fun of an official WWE DVD/Match/Show Discussion peep lol.
> 
> I'm all for Rollins busting out the odd move here or there but it's when it becomes a habit I have a problem with it. Before you know it every match would be Rollins just doing crazy ass moved with no sort of structure or meaning to the match.


Wasn't sure. Your post almost sounded as if you were questioning the basis of my statement. It appears you weren't jumping the gun. That's good to know. My bad.

I'm sure being in WWE all 3 of them will know to be more grounded with their offense. Nor would I even accuse Rollins of going overkill in the first place. He's not bad at that stuff, imo.


----------



## sharkboy22

MTheBehemoth said:


> Which is EXACTLY what I said from the get-go. However, I actually explained why it's not a 5 star classic.
> The Blackout spot didn't work, for example. You do the hardcore version of that move? Why? 89% of your audience saw that move for the very 1st time. I mean, you can clearly hear the "wtf was that?.." reaction. Also, someone said that Ryback's ugly attack/tackle on Roman was "awesomely real" or whatever. It actually looked like both fuckers are gassed out (which was obviously the case) and like it's gonna be on the next addition of Botchamania.


I loved Ryback's spot on Reign's. I thought it added a lot to the match and it wasn't much. 

And I don't think anyone considers this match to be a 5 star classic. I think everyone acknowledges it a fun match that really made The Shield look like stars. Everyone as a matter of fact looked like stars but the match was set out to get the Shield over and they did exactly that.

Now I don't consider it MOTY and it isn't a contender but it's definitely a top 10 for me. But very low in the top 10.

There's just something special about the match. It was a brilliantly worked match and if I were to re-watch it(which I have) I wouldn't have liked to see it be worked any other way but that way.


----------



## Obfuscation

Ryback & Reigns crashing into the plunder was one of my favorite spots. Captured the essence of it being a wild war perfectly.

btw, the debate was never about it being a "classic 5 star MOTY" in the first place. It was only about some fans always asking for too much from matches.


----------



## MTheBehemoth

* = Bad. ** = Average. *** = Good. **** = Great. ***** = Perfect
Almost everyone is just licking the macth's balls but giving it the exact same (or almost the exact same) rating - ****+. If it's not *****, then it's not perfect. If it's not perfect, say why it isnt perfect.

Another complaint btw - Yes, i din't like (read: wasnt perfect) the double superplex spot as well. Too basic (like I already mentioned) for a TLC match and/or not enough brawlish, so to speak, for this particular match.


----------



## Concrete

*The Shield vs. Ryback/Team Hell No(TLC):*****
_Look what we got here. So much chaos it was wonderful. This felt to me as all the Shield's segments coming in allowed to play out in a match. They plugged in the Ryback table spot on the Spanish Announce Table (RIP Spanish Announce Table for the 168941354 time)which was nice and I'm glad they did it more in the middle of the match then have it during the end. Whenever the Shield was on offense they were doing it with at least two members working over a member of the opposition at a time. It was usually the smaller Rollins and Ambrose working over someone in the ring while Reigns was making sure the other members of the team stayed down. I'm convinced that Ryback is portraying a character who is on steroids. He throws people around and then goes straight into dead mode when he's on defense and then he goes back into rage mode when on offense. The one time I felt like Ryback wasn't inhumanly balanced was where he threw Seth Rollins off the ladder into the tables(sweet spot by the way where Rollins had nowhere to go after getting so high up) and crawled away after all the damage he had taken. I somewhat jest. Continuing on, Daniel Bryan looked like a scrappy fighter,nay,warrior which was GREAT!Reigns looked like an animal and if this dude can talk even a little the WWE has got something there. As far as spots go(which is clearly becoming this big thing I suppose)I thought they which just smashing. Ambrose getting chokeslammed on the chair, which Rollins would later use a piece of as a weapon was awesome. Rollins hitting the Blackout on Bryan on the chair was sick. Reigns tackling Kane through the barricade was well done with them burying Kane in the wreckage afterwards. Wasn't HUGE on Ryback SMASHING Reigns into all the shit, but that doesn't mean I didn't think it was friggin' sweet. Can we just not talk about SPOTZ like this. Its weird and makes me uncomfortable. Honestly this was a damn fun match with something enjoyable happening at seemingly any given moment._


----------



## blink_41sum_182

Final Battle

Kevin Steen vs. El Generico - **** 1/4

TLC

The Shield vs. Ryback and Team Hell No - ****
Dolph Ziggler vs. John Cena - ****


----------



## seabs

*This thread was fun again for a few days the other week :downing*


----------



## Caponex75

I'll go into detail about it later but the main event to TLC was probably one of the worst Ladder matches I have seen. You can put me down as someone that agrees that the Shield vs. Ryback & Team Hell No was great though.


----------



## Last Chancery

MTheBehemoth said:


> * = Bad. ** = Average. *** = Good. **** = Great. ***** = Perfect
> Almost everyone is just licking the macth's balls but giving it the exact same (or almost the exact same) rating - ****+. If it's not *****, then it's not perfect. If it's not perfect, say why it isnt perfect.
> 
> Another complaint btw - Yes, i din't like (read: wasnt perfect) the double superplex spot as well. Too basic (like I already mentioned) for a TLC match and/or not enough brawlish, so to speak, for this particular match.


Yeah, but even that spot made psychological sense within the context of the match. The superplex to Bryan ended up wrecking his back for a good chunk of the match, enabling Reigns and Ambrose to capitalize in the way they did at the end. Normally, the ending spot would have looked fairly weak, especially compared to the bump just taken by Rollins moments earlier. But, in conjunction with that superplex, it looked a lot stronger.


----------



## Nervosa

Lord Santa Claus IV. said:


> *This thread was fun again for a few days the other week :downing*


Just wait until Janurary 4th: the topics will switch back to legitimate discussion.

In the meantime, go ahead and list your 5 favorite things about Ishii if it helps you pass the time. 

Mine would be.

5. Second Rope Brainbuster
4. Being a BOSS
3. Everything vs. AKebono
2. being a BOSS
1. His distinct Egg-shape


----------



## Obfuscation

Lord Santa Claus IV. said:


> *This thread was fun again for a few days the other week :downing*


Something had to capture the essence of Davey/Edwards from last year in the form of a meaningless debate.


----------



## Concrete

*Damien Wayne vs. Chris Escobar-VCW: *****
_I can not so proudly say that I incredibly enjoy scrappy smaller workers get beaten up by more brutish wrestlers. It may be my favorite pastime.Here we have the smaller Escobar and the pretty rugged Wayne.If you haven’t at least heard about Wayne you haven’t dug around the darkest and scariest parts of the internet wrestling world nearly enough. I've heard of the man but I can now say I've finally seen a match of his and it was great. He beats up on Escobar for a ton of it and I enjoy that to pieces. Escobar getting those comebacks going was enjoyable, if for nothing else to break up his beatdown while giving the man some hope. Neither man wanting to win by countout was just super. The only time Wayne was willing to take the countout win was when it got too dicey on the outside. Seabs mentioned this AWHILE back with his review but some of the little touches like Wayne kicking Escobar to prop him up for the tree of woe spot was GREAT and makes it look incredibly less silly than a guy just waiting there.Little fun fact, when you end the match at its climax, where you have led up to it well enough and doing too much more will be too much, it makes the match better. Some wrestlers end the match 2 brainbusters, 9 backdrop drivers, 3 SSP, and a burning hammer too late. That may or not be an exaggeration but I think I made my point._


----------



## Obfuscation

I love those kinds of matches too. Brodie Lee has mastered working those types of bouts. To add more Chikara references, oddly enough that's where my mind is going with this type, Kingston vs Donst I & Necro/Pondo vs ROH Students fit perfectly into the category too.

Oh, and Mark Henry vs Bryan Danielson matches :mark:


----------



## Concrete

Brodie Lee how I miss thee in Chikara and especially seeing him live in 2CW. To see his last independent match was a joy. The independents lost a great big man. I always think Roderick Strong vs. a non-shitty smallish fry is wonderful stuff. I get a real kick at measuring the hangtime one gets before having their spine make contact with Roddy's knees. Plus him chopping them to death. Fun for the whole family.

Oh and Mark Henry vs. Daniel Bryan matches, not to be cheesy but, YES! YES! YES!


----------



## Obfuscation

Roddy's demolition on small punks is fun. He might not be a big hoss such as Brodie, but the brutality is the same. Chops, sick kicks, and backbreakers. Oh my! _(I out cheesed you man.)_

Danielson dies far too many times apparently. vs Henry & vs Strong. But, he stands toe to toe with Morishima in their brilliant series. Ironic fun!


----------



## seabs

*Glad to see someone else mention that Wayne/Escobar match. It is indeed really fucking good.*


----------



## Concrete

You out cheesed me. I thought I brought so much cheese  . Wayne isn't a hoss like Brodie but he's bigger than Roddy for some size comparison. I was actually watching Man Up! the other week as Morishima released the late night Syfy movie, SUPER MONSTER-HEEL DICK, before Syfy cheese was cool.

The match was damn good. I have like one or two DVDs left from 2012 to watch but since I don't have the money to buy some more, and I don't want VOD, I've been going to YouTube. So far matches like Escobar/Wayne and Walker/Scorpio have made me wonder why I haven't kept up with stuff all along.


----------



## sharkboy22

enlightenedone9 said:


> *Damien Wayne vs. Chris Escobar-VCW: *****
> _I can not so proudly say that I incredibly enjoy scrappy smaller workers get beaten up by more brutish wrestlers. It may be my favorite pastime.Here we have the smaller Escobar and the pretty rugged Wayne.If you haven’t at least heard about Wayne you haven’t dug around the darkest and scariest parts of the internet wrestling world nearly enough. I've heard of the man but I can now say I've finally seen a match of his and it was great. He beats up on Escobar for a ton of it and I enjoy that to pieces. Escobar getting those comebacks going was enjoyable, if for nothing else to break up his beatdown while giving the man some hope. Neither man wanting to win by countout was just super. The only time Wayne was willing to take the countout win was when it got too dicey on the outside. Seabs mentioned this AWHILE back with his review but some of the little touches like Wayne kicking Escobar to prop him up for the tree of woe spot was GREAT and makes it look incredibly less silly than a guy just waiting there.Little fun fact, when you end the match at its climax, where you have led up to it well enough and doing too much more will be too much, it makes the match better. Some wrestlers end the match 2 brainbusters, 9 backdrop drivers, 3 SSP, and a burning hammer too late. That may or not be an exaggeration but I think I made my point._


This sounds like my kind of match? Where did you see this match? Is it on Youtube?

Glad to see psychology still exists on the indies. I was reading through some posts on another message board and there was this one idiot who was saying stuff like "Everyone knows wrestling is fake. It's hard to suspend disbelief when you know it's fake. Who cares about psychology and selling" He even went onto say "Everyone no sells" and that "babayface comebacks are the best example of no selling"

It was that very moment that I realized just how damaging the 9 brainbusters and 27 piledrivers has become to the way even fans view pro wrestling. I know I sound like a big hater but I refuse to support indy wrestling because these guys are killing the business. They are exposing it. 

One spot that really over-exposed the business was when Richards did that top rope suplex and then Edwards just got up afterwards and suplexed him out the ring. Yes, I know wrestling is fake. But I still thought a top rope suplex would hurt like shit. Apparently, it doesn't. I absolutely loathe indy wrestling because of shit like this. And it is found in 99% of matches. Indy wrestling looks like the WWE video games. A suplex into a falcon arrow into an ankle. That's the shit I'd so in WWE '13. 

Ring psychology and the art of pro wrestling is lost. It makes me sad really and to think that fans have been conditioned to accept this as wrestling to the point where they are saying "It's fake! You can't suspend your belief, you know it's fake!" It's just so sad when you sit back and realize that this is what wrestling has become. The funnest part of wrestling is suspending your belief and getting into the show. Then again, wrestlers on the indies (And the WWE as well) don't know how to engage the crowd in a match


----------



## Yeah1993

Wayne/Escobar have had like four or five matches I've liked a lot this year IIRC.


----------



## seabs

*Dean Allmark vs Stixx - ASW:UK 14.08.2012*
_By the books Allmark match but a by the books Allmark match is better than 90% of wrestling out there from 2012. Deano's babyface moveset is the fucking best. Stixx is a guy that's had enough really good matches this year that I'm kinda having to accept that he must be really good. I'm not crazy about him but he keeps on delivering even with guys not as good as Allmark. He's good here and gives Allmark enough to make it really good. Gets really good at the end from Deano's first comeback onwards. Probably on par with their IPW:UK match this year but that had one of my favourite finishes all year so I probably just prefer that._

******

*NO

Kevin Steen vs El Generico - Ladder War - ROH Final Battle 2012*
_I thought this was decent but definitely nothing more and definitely not a MOTYC. The biggest difference between their PWG matches and their ROH matches is how much better they get the sense of utter despise for each other over. In the 2 PWG matches it felt like a special sort of hate feud. The ROH matches feel like two good workers working hardcore matches. I'm not convinced Steen is really invested in this ROH run. If you can't see the difference in enthusiasm and enjoyment between PWG Steen and ROH Steen then there's no hope left for you. Crowd doesn't give it much heat either. Not in between spots at least. There's points at the start but where there's an awkward silence before something happens or someone starts shouting OLE. I was into it after the first Ladder spot when Steen was bullying Generico around. Then they got into doing spots and I gradually faded more and more. None of the spots bar the finish are all that memorable and I wasn't expecting that to be a knock on the match. The Table/Ladder spot sucked because there's no room for a guy like Steen to get elevation for a bump like that and the table on top of the ladder just made it look an ugly spot rather than an ugly bump. Guys going through Ladders does nothing for me anymore either. I remember the first time WWE did the broken ladder spot and I totally lost it because those Ladders look sturdy as hell and nobody ever goes right through one. These Ladders don't really look like they'd support anything and they break so easily it's not as visually impressive a bump. I think they did bumps through 4 Ladders, so even in the context of the match they killed the uniqueness of going through a Ladder. Finish looked cool if a tad too much pro wrestling flawed with the obvious set up. I would have enjoyed this match much more with Nigel losing his shit all over it. ROH have made countless numbers of horrible decisions since Gabe went but this might be the worst. He doesn't even do anything that warrants him not doing commentary on an iPPV. Kelly is so phony and sounds like he's doing this is a chore and not something he's into. The other guys sounds like a clone of Kelly and was more bothered about getting over the silly tagline and how he was scared for his own safety rather than being scared for Generico's safety and marking out for the finish like Nigel would have. I hated Steen/Elgin but Nigel made the last 5 minutes at least kinda fun. Good. You can live without it._


----------



## Obfuscation

sharkboy22 said:


> This sounds like my kind of match? Where did you see this match? Is it on Youtube?
> 
> Glad to see psychology still exists on the indies. I was reading through some posts on another message board and there was this one idiot who was saying stuff like "Everyone knows wrestling is fake. It's hard to suspend disbelief when you know it's fake. Who cares about psychology and selling" He even went onto say "Everyone no sells" and that "babayface comebacks are the best example of no selling"
> 
> It was that very moment that I realized just how damaging the 9 brainbusters and 27 piledrivers has become to the way even fans view pro wrestling. I know I sound like a big hater but I refuse to support indy wrestling because these guys are killing the business. They are exposing it.
> 
> One spot that really over-exposed the business was when Richards did that top rope suplex and then Edwards just got up afterwards and suplexed him out the ring. Yes, I know wrestling is fake. But I still thought a top rope suplex would hurt like shit. Apparently, it doesn't. I absolutely loathe indy wrestling because of shit like this. And it is found in 99% of matches. Indy wrestling looks like the WWE video games. A suplex into a falcon arrow into an ankle. That's the shit I'd so in WWE '13.
> 
> Ring psychology and the art of pro wrestling is lost. It makes me sad really and to think that fans have been conditioned to accept this as wrestling to the point where they are saying "It's fake! You can't suspend your belief, you know it's fake!" It's just so sad when you sit back and realize that this is what wrestling has become. The funnest part of wrestling is suspending your belief and getting into the show. Then again, wrestlers on the indies (And the WWE as well) don't know how to engage the crowd in a match


I'm almost convinced you read that nonsense on the ROH board. Either way it's :cornette

Going to watch Final Battle today. What I've seemed to gather from the Ladder War is that it's got two things to expect:

1) It's a recycled version of Steen Wolf.
2) It's dealing with the same heatless crowds that most Generico vs Steen in ROH matches have had to deal with. Went back and watched a few of them last night/this morning. Final Battle 2010 match is GREAT, but fuck me the crowd is horrible. The sole fact that those two men sucked me in the match - with that lifeless crowd - is outstanding. Unfortunately, it sounds as if it got the better of them on Sunday considering Ladder War might not have been the most original bout in the lengthy program.


----------



## geraldinhio

I didn't mind the crowd for Final Battle. Maybe I was just so sucked into the match. On the other hand the crowd for their last man standing match. :fpalm

Gonna finally watch Del Rey vs Generico. :mark: I'll have a review up tomorrow.


----------



## Obfuscation

Generico vs Del Rey :mark:

now that's a match to get sucked into. I was standing up marking for it.


----------



## Bruce L

Probably not a MOTYC, but I have to say I was quite pleasantly surprised by Team Hell No vs. Rhodes Scholars from The Main Event last night. First WWE TV match I've watched since Miz/Kingston from the same show a while back, and I was quite impressed that they were actually given a good chunk of time. I'd be lying if I said Bryan's "NO!" schtick is as entertaining as "YES!" was (frankly, I'm not sure "NO!" even makes sense), but he's still as close to his old Best in the World self as WWE will allow, Kane looked better than he has in years, and I'm relieved to see they make a tremendously entertaining team in the ring. (I know the company was supposedly quite high on their vignettes, but I don't watch those.) Cody Rhodes remains awesome, and Sandow is a solid enough worker. ***1/2, probably?


----------



## Concrete

sharkboy22 said:


> This sounds like my kind of match? Where did you see this match? Is it on Youtube?
> 
> Glad to see psychology still exists on the indies. I was reading through some posts on another message board and there was this one idiot who was saying stuff like "Everyone knows wrestling is fake. It's hard to suspend disbelief when you know it's fake. Who cares about psychology and selling" He even went onto say "Everyone no sells" and that "babayface comebacks are the best example of no selling"
> 
> It was that very moment that I realized just how damaging the 9 brainbusters and 27 piledrivers has become to the way even fans view pro wrestling. I know I sound like a big hater but I refuse to support indy wrestling because these guys are killing the business. They are exposing it.
> 
> One spot that really over-exposed the business was when Richards did that top rope suplex and then Edwards just got up afterwards and suplexed him out the ring. Yes, I know wrestling is fake. But I still thought a top rope suplex would hurt like shit. Apparently, it doesn't. I absolutely loathe indy wrestling because of shit like this. And it is found in 99% of matches. Indy wrestling looks like the WWE video games. A suplex into a falcon arrow into an ankle. That's the shit I'd so in WWE '13.
> 
> Ring psychology and the art of pro wrestling is lost. It makes me sad really and to think that fans have been conditioned to accept this as wrestling to the point where they are saying "It's fake! You can't suspend your belief, you know it's fake!" It's just so sad when you sit back and realize that this is what wrestling has become. The funnest part of wrestling is suspending your belief and getting into the show. Then again, wrestlers on the indies (And the WWE as well) don't know how to engage the crowd in a match


You can find this match on youtube right here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCkuJg6V6Dw

My gut says you'll enjoy it but its got enough SPOTZ in there to at least satisfy an ROH fan or some shizz. Not saying this match revolves around them but they exist.

Those comments people make are recockulous(thank you Chris Jericho).


----------



## Obfuscation

Bruce L said:


> Probably not a MOTYC, but I have to say I was quite pleasantly surprised by Team Hell No vs. Rhodes Scholars from The Main Event last night. First WWE TV match I've watched since Miz/Kingston from the same show a while back, and I was quite impressed that they were actually given a good chunk of time. I'd be lying if I said Bryan's "NO!" schtick is as entertaining as "YES!" was (frankly, I'm not sure "NO!" even makes sense), but he's still as close to his old Best in the World self as WWE will allow, Kane looked better than he has in years, and I'm relieved to see they make a tremendously entertaining team in the ring. (I know the company was supposedly quite high on their vignettes, but I don't watch those.) Cody Rhodes remains awesome, and Sandow is a solid enough worker. ***1/2, probably?


Yep, ***1/2 for me too. Really good tag team affair.


----------



## blink_41sum_182

Spoiler: PWG Failure to Communicate



Young Bucks vs. El Generico and Kenny Omega - **** 1/4
Kevin Steen vs. Ricochet vs. Michael Elgin - **** 1/2

I wrote more on why in the Indy dvd thread.


----------



## bigbuxxx

^^^ way overrated esp the 3 way. the matches were definitely fun to watch though. Elgin did his power thing, Ricochet did his aerial thing, and Steen did his whatever wrestling he usually does thing. Pretty much them getting their spots in and ending it. Definition of a spotfest imo.


----------



## blink_41sum_182

bigbuxxx said:


> ^^^ way overrated esp the 3 way. the matches were definitely fun to watch though. Elgin did his power thing, Ricochet did his aerial thing, and Steen did his whatever wrestling he usually does thing. Pretty much them getting their spots in and ending it. Definition of a spotfest imo.


Well I said in the indy thread "I may be in the minority here" so I was expecting people to think I overrated it but I loved it. No fucks given.


----------



## BANKSY

*Steen/Generico ~ Ladder War ***1/4
*

Good spots but not much else, the whole match just felt completely disconnected and any hate between the two seemed forced. I also hate convoluted ladder spots despite what cool visuals they might reward.


----------



## geraldinhio

Still haven't seen the ladder war.....But I've seen Generico vs Del Rey.:mark:

*Sara Del Rey vs El Generico- Chikara Hot of the Griddle*

Someone please try convince me that Generico isn't the best worker in North America. Please try convince me. That's not taking anything away from Sara who is a fantastic wrestler and was in my top 10 Indy workers before she was WWE bound. The dynamic here was pure golds. Generico's hesitation at times,then unleashing everything.It's amazing how emotive Generico can be through his body language and facial expressions. Match had many great moments. Awesome crowd too. Loved the dueling "YES,YES,YES" and "sí,sí,sí" chants. Generico busting out the royal butterfly was a very nice touch,but Sara pulling out the Yes lock was an awesome touch.:mark: An fantastic match from two fantastic wrestlers.

****1/4+


----------



## Bubz

That first Yakuza kick to Sara was bloody incredible.


----------



## seabs

*James Mason vs Robbie Dynamite - Welshpool 07.09.2012*
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40z-QiSmiNs

Moops and WOOLCOCK will like this. It's a travesty that so little current Mason is available. He'd probably have a great shot at WOTY for 2012 if there was more than just a handful of matches available. Mason does his thing and Mason doing his thing is all you need. Dynamite is really underrated too. Loved how whenever the match had a technical wrestling focus Mason would come out on top and Robbie always gained the upper hand when it took a brawling turn. Great little match. I could watch Mason all day long. He could probably run through a match like this in his sleep. James needs a mate to follow him around with a handheld like Allmark has. Desperately._

******

*Kahagas vs Damien Wayne - NWA 09.11.2012*
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuJKqzCGJTM

So much fun. First of all, I've found the most enthusiastic commentator ever. He even beats Nigel for enthusiasm. Spent 2/3rds of this cackling at his enthusiasm for everything. It's not goofy either, it's just so fun to hear a commentator putting a match over with so much passion. Match is super fun. Feels like something straight out of an episode of Memphis TV from the 80's with an excited Lance Russell talking all over it. Pretty sure Davey Richards does combo moves with more wrestling moves than they used in this. Awesome brawl with some great shots. Wayne's leg drops looked great. Uncoordinated brawls that flow well are hard to come by but this and Gallows/Dreamer are excellent examples of how to do an Indy brawl without using a million weapon spots or risking your future for a spot. No finish is a shame but it's to set up another match and it worked well. Easily one of the better Indy matches this year. Watch if nothing else for the enthusiastic commentary._

*****1/4*


----------



## Yeah1993

Wayne/Kahagas was pretty awesome, yeah. They had a match in March, too. Wayne's fucking great. Every match he's had this year has been good, and I seek for everything he's done. Definitely one of my favourites in the world.

Not sure if I've watched Mason/Dynamite. Actually I think that was the one I watched but was kind of multi-tasking during and didn't pay the best attention to.


----------



## sharkboy22

Seabs, where the hell do you find this stuff? it's like you pull these matches out of your ass sometimes lol.

Saw Kahagus vs Damien Wayne and damn it was impressive. The match reeks of awesome. I'm not sure if I would go so high on it but it was a pretty damn good match. I don't know if Wayne juiced or not, but if he did, the use of blood in this match didn't add anything to the match. Could have told the same story without imo. Let's just say red didn't equal green. Red was just red. But hey, that's the true definition of nitpicking there. This was an awesome brawl! They hardly make them like this these days.

And of course, how could I forget the commentary. The commentary, like you mentioned, is superb. Holy shit, whoever that guy is WWE needs to find his ass and get him on my TV! He's like a freaking mini-JR "Hide you drinks there's DNA everywhere!" "If you came here expecting wristlocks, you came to the wrong place!" "These two need a cage!" 

Gonna watch that first match you posted now.


----------



## Obfuscation

Heard of both those guys, yet I've found myself having a hard time piecing together how. I do believe Kahagas worked a few matches in the first few FIP shows. Wayne, I have no idea. Maybe from some random NWA/Indie shows I've borrowed from friends. Either way, I'm giving it a watch.

Commentator begins speaking and I'm already enjoying him. This should be fun.


----------



## sharkboy22

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Heard of both those guys, yet I've found myself having a hard time piecing together how. I do believe Kahagas worked a few matches in the first few FIP shows. Wayne, I have no idea. Maybe from some random NWA/Indie shows I've borrowed from friends. Either way, I'm giving it a watch.
> 
> Commentator begins speaking and I'm already enjoying him. This should be fun.


It's a great match (Y)

Right now, I'm just watching tons of indy shit. I just suddenly have an urge to watch indy wrestling. I'm getting a little tired of watching WWE matches all day long. Gotta switch things up a bit from time to time. 

Gonna watch Elgins vs Richards now. I'm going in with it in a clean mind. Then again I went in to Richards/Edwards BITW and Generico/Steen FB 2010 with a clean mind as well and things didn't turn out too well. If this section had a match discussion thread I would have posted a review on both those matches (completely ripping them apart of course )

Oh well off to Elgins/Richards. Hope I keep my sanity. I just finished Generico/Steen and quite frankly, there's only a little of my sanity left.


----------



## Obfuscation

Generico vs Steen rules. The ONLY crap factor about it was the horrible, dull crowd. Commentary too. Prazak even sucked during it.

Davey vs Elgin. Lol. Much of the same with the crowd till a DANGEROUS spot happens. Then they love it. Only that match has something Generico vs Steen didn't, amazing commentary that could almost make you care/root for the guys involved. If you shut your brain off and just watch it, then you can go "oh, that was interesting." If not, it's SO bad. Then again I think I'm one of it's most notorious, hmm, I don't want to say "hater" b/c that sounds stupid and incorrect. I'll claim I'm one of the most notorious fans who disapproves of the match. Yeah, that works. Not my cup of tea, at all. 

Plain and simple Davey vs Elgin is where the stigma of "over the top Indie wrestling" comes from, imo.


----------



## sharkboy22

You didn't find Generico/Steen over the top? Really? Maybe you should go and re-watch it. The match is nothing but high spot>stall for some time>high spot and so on and so on. The match is just both guys using weapons. Every thing that they do involves the use of the weapon and it's just one big set up to a "Holy shit moment"

I couldn't get into it at all. It just felt like I was watching a circus show (then again every indy match feels like that) Typical indy match where it's just really a demonstration of maneuvers rather than, gee i don't know, an actual match. There was some moments where I thought some brilliant psychology was going to be used but I was wrong. I credit Steen for ripping the mask open to expose Genrico's face to bust him over but he just went about wrong. Two solid punches to the face followed up by Generico selling it like a boss *insert blading* and bingo! It would have gotten more over than his circus show of front flips onto the chair. It's a damn circus show, these indy matches!

Then it went into full indy mode and from the moment I saw it I knew it was coming up The thing I dread most about these matches- the finishing stretch. Where it turns into nothing but a finisher fest followed by kickouts.

Generico did the dragon suplex (I believe it was) onto a chair. That did nothing. And I can't even remember the match and it's more or less fresh out of my mind. That's to tell you the amount of ridiculous, meaningless spots there were in this match. Oh and why is it everytime ROH is doing a no-DQ match it follows this pattern

1) The heel managers puts his client's feet on the ropes
2) Ref gets knocked out
3) Some dude from the back comes running down, knocks manager out
4) Gives the babyface a weapn
5) Babyface uses it but heels kick out

and well step 6 is some more over the top shit until fuck me! We get into the finish. Honestly, if all that shit didn't knock Steen out and the Yakuza kick into the fucking brainbuster on the top rope didn't do either, then the only believable finish would be to have Genrico drag a fucking cannon ball to the ring, light the son of a bitch and blow a fucking hole in Steen's stomach. But, despite all that, the most effective thing was one steel chair to the head. Terrible match imo. The fact that it goes 30 minutes doesn't help either. That's just my take on the match.

But on a more interesting note, what gives with these overbooked finishes in ROH? Every no-DQ match, it's the same shit. I've seen it in Joe/Brisco steel cage (which was fucking awesome I might add), Punk/Raven, now this match and even this year there was some match with Steen where the same pattern of swerving and over booking was used. Was it against Richards? Can't remember, but somebody got fucking stabbed. The irony of it all is that one of them got on the mic and praised the other for the match. Umm, he just fucking stabbed you! lol. I can't remember if that's exactly what happened but I know for sure that earlier this year ROH overbooked the shit out of a match and somebody got stabbed.


----------



## Obfuscation

sharkboy22 said:


> You didn't find Generico/Steen over the top? Really? Maybe you should go and re-watch it. The match is nothing but high spot>stall for some time>high spot and so on and so on. The match is just both guys using weapons. Every thing that they do involves the use of the weapon and it's just one big set up to a "Holy shit moment"
> 
> I couldn't get into it at all. It just felt like I was watching a circus show (then again every indy match feels like that) Typical indy match where it's just really a demonstration of maneuvers rather than, gee i don't know, an actual match. There was some moments where I thought some brilliant psychology was going to be used but I was wrong. I credit Steen for ripping the mask open to expose Genrico's face to bust him over but he just went about wrong. Two solid punches to the face followed up by Generico selling it like a boss *insert blading* and bingo! It would have gotten more over than his circus show of front flips onto the chair. It's a damn circus show, these indy matches!
> 
> Then it went into full indy mode and from the moment I saw it I knew it was coming up The thing I dread most about these matches- the finishing stretch. Where it turns into nothing but a finisher fest followed by kickouts.
> 
> Generico did the dragon suplex (I believe it was) onto a chair. That did nothing. And I can't even remember the match and it's more or less fresh out of my mind. That's to tell you the amount of ridiculous, meaningless spots there were in this match. Oh and why is it everytime ROH is doing a no-DQ match it follows this pattern
> 
> 1) The heel managers puts his client's feet on the ropes
> 2) Ref gets knocked out
> 3) Some dude from the back comes running down, knocks manager out
> 4) Gives the babyface a weapn
> 5) Babyface uses it but heels kick out
> 
> and well step 6 is some more over the top shit until fuck me! We get into the finish. Honestly, if all that shit didn't knock Steen out and the Yakuza kick into the fucking brainbuster on the top rope didn't do either, then the only believable finish would be to have Genrico drag a fucking cannon ball to the ring, light the son of a bitch and blow a fucking hole in Steen's stomach. But, despite all that, the most effective thing was one steel chair to the head. Terrible match imo. The fact that it goes 30 minutes doesn't help either. That's just my take on the match.
> 
> But on a more interesting note, what gives with these overbooked finishes in ROH? Every no-DQ match, it's the same shit. I've seen it in Joe/Brisco steel cage (which was fucking awesome I might add), Punk/Raven, now this match and even this year there was some match with Steen where the same pattern of swerving and over booking was used. Was it against Richards? Can't remember, but somebody got fucking stabbed. The irony of it all is that one of them got on the mic and praised the other for the match. Umm, he just fucking stabbed you! lol. I can't remember if that's exactly what happened but I know for sure that earlier this year ROH overbooked the shit out of a match and somebody got stabbed.


I did just watch it again. Like 2 days ago. It was fitting for the final match of their year long rivalry. The hate was presented in spades, the deconstructing of the mask was brilliant, I only note one major spot and it occurred at the end with Steen dying by going through the table/ladder. The finish was over the top, but it made sense on the aspect of that match being 100% FINAL. It was Mask vs Career. Either Generico would lose his identity or Steen would lose his job. They weren't going to quit. The top rope brainbuster can't even initally be brought into question due to the fact Steen fell to the outside instead of directly into the ring. Also, Steen kicking out of it was the definition of not quitting. Not ONE person ever kicks out of that move. Once it connects, that's all she wrote. I felt a majority of the match was fitting, justified, and symbolic. Especially with the essence of HATE being the pulse of the bout.

I've seen matches worked like that after 1 month of "hate" in a program. Waiting to go 1 whole year before everything was left on the table, well that's fine by me. Are you familiar with this program from the start or did you just jump into this Final Battle match via the hype?

I know Indie matches CAN go over the top. Which is why I despise Davey Richards, but I feel you're generalizing far too much by claiming they're all a circus show. I've seen plenty of matches to prove that otherwise.


----------



## mk92071

sharkboy22 said:


> You didn't find Generico/Steen over the top? Really? Maybe you should go and re-watch it. The match is nothing but high spot>stall for some time>high spot and so on and so on. The match is just both guys using weapons. Every thing that they do involves the use of the weapon and it's just one big set up to a "Holy shit moment"
> 
> I couldn't get into it at all. It just felt like I was watching a circus show (then again every indy match feels like that) Typical indy match where it's just really a demonstration of maneuvers rather than, gee i don't know, an actual match. There was some moments where I thought some brilliant psychology was going to be used but I was wrong. I credit Steen for ripping the mask open to expose Genrico's face to bust him over but he just went about wrong. Two solid punches to the face followed up by Generico selling it like a boss *insert blading* and bingo! It would have gotten more over than his circus show of front flips onto the chair. It's a damn circus show, these indy matches!
> 
> Then it went into full indy mode and from the moment I saw it I knew it was coming up The thing I dread most about these matches- the finishing stretch. Where it turns into nothing but a finisher fest followed by kickouts.
> 
> Generico did the dragon suplex (I believe it was) onto a chair. That did nothing. And I can't even remember the match and it's more or less fresh out of my mind. That's to tell you the amount of ridiculous, meaningless spots there were in this match. Oh and why is it everytime ROH is doing a no-DQ match it follows this pattern
> 
> 1) The heel managers puts his client's feet on the ropes
> 2) Ref gets knocked out
> 3) Some dude from the back comes running down, knocks manager out
> 4) Gives the babyface a weapn
> 5) Babyface uses it but heels kick out
> 
> and well step 6 is some more over the top shit until fuck me! We get into the finish. Honestly, if all that shit didn't knock Steen out and the Yakuza kick into the fucking brainbuster on the top rope didn't do either, then the only believable finish would be to have Genrico drag a fucking cannon ball to the ring, light the son of a bitch and blow a fucking hole in Steen's stomach. But, despite all that, the most effective thing was one steel chair to the head. Terrible match imo. The fact that it goes 30 minutes doesn't help either. That's just my take on the match.
> 
> But on a more interesting note, what gives with these overbooked finishes in ROH? Every no-DQ match, it's the same shit. I've seen it in Joe/Brisco steel cage (which was fucking awesome I might add), Punk/Raven, now this match and even this year there was some match with Steen where the same pattern of swerving and over booking was used. Was it against Richards? Can't remember, but somebody got fucking stabbed. The irony of it all is that one of them got on the mic and praised the other for the match. Umm, he just fucking stabbed you! lol. I can't remember if that's exactly what happened but I know for sure that earlier this year ROH overbooked the shit out of a match and somebody got stabbed.


I felt similar to this on my first few watchings of the Steen/Generico match, but when I understood the match and the hatred in the feud and watched it again it became one of my favorite matches. Definitely in my top 3. I feel like all of the big spots are justified and the emotion is great. It isn't WORKRATE~! or anything but it told such a good story. Each guy having to throw everything they had and not being able to pull out the win. The overbooked Cabana/Corino stuff made sense, it wouldn't make sense if they DIDN'T try to help their partners. I felt that everything here was necessary including the crazy kick outs and spots. The finish made the feud come full circle, and it couldn' have been done any better. 

Then when you add on Steen's shouting at Generico throughout the matches it only gets better. "Do you wanna die for real, El Generico? I'll give you your wish" "Remember the ladder wars we lost because of you?!" (Pardon any misquotes going off memory) The image of Steen holding out Generico's mask and begging for mercy will seem iconic to me, and the chair shot gives me the chills every time.


----------



## sharkboy22

Hey, to each his own. I just wanted to support my argument rather than just throw a statement out there.

But, ummm, I have about 10 minutes left till this crapfest of a Elgins vs Richards is over and I really don't know if I could hold on. It's so fucking bad lol. I'm getting a headache watching the damn thing. Since it's a 2012 match and apparently a MOTYC, I'll post a review when I'm done. Hopefully, I could remember how to type and speak english after hitting myself in the head with a hammer as a form punishment for ever deciding to touch this shit.

Only reason I'm watching this is because I'm getting bored of WWE matches and I need a legit reason to post 200 angry posts when the Observer hands this the MOTY award. I believe it's gonna get it.


----------



## Concrete

I was going to post this in the indy thread but since Seabs brought it up here I'll throw her here.

*Kahagas vs. Damien Wayne:***1/2*
_I’ve heard so many good things about Damien Wayne. Oppositely I’ve heard mostly bad things about Kahagas. I still stand by Kahagas not being the right guy for the NWA to put the title on even more so after watching a little of Wayne and the way they did it wouldn’t be considered okay no matter what. This match though showed me a little of Kahagas that I may be able to like. This lasts for MAYBE 10 minutes but what a fun 10 minutes it was. These guys brawl around for almost the entire time and it is so much fun. There’s blood, there’s chops, there’s people enjoying their dinner and a show, and there’s an awesome apron leg drop spot. That will give you a good match 9 out of 10 times. Not the greatest match of the year but the solid ten minutes of brawling is worth it._

While I don't love this match as some other people, I sure did enjoy the hell out of it. Oh and the commentator is friggin' great as said.


----------



## sharkboy22

I hear a lot of people say things like "It's the context of the match" but to me, that has nothing to do with it. I remember a while back when I shat on Punk/Airires people were telling me, it's because I took it out of context. The part where Punk popped up like nothing after the Pepsi Plunge was apparently to show his determination. You could be the most determined motherfucker around, someone hits you that (not to mention all the fucking cannon balls of moves from before) it's light out. I probably wouldn't have mind had Punk kick out of a 2 but to get directly up after it, is stupid if you ask me. 

In the case of Generico/Steen, I get it was a year in the making but there's so many other ways to go about it. Start off with a brawl, then introduce the weapons. It's foreplay>fucking>rest>fucking>cumshot. Not cumshot>rest>cumshot>rest>cumshot>cumshot>cumshot. And, the finish, meh. I get the message is determination but they went about it wrong imo. You don't need to drop a guy on his head and have him kick out 3 times in 2 minutes to show he's desperate. It become a finisher and nearfall fest quickly. There was just too much head dropping and near falls. These things do not make a match dramatic nor do they add any sort of story. It's just annoying imo. Even if that was the route to put over the whole "What do I have to do to put this guy out" one steel chair certainly isn't as clearly 50 weren't. I get what the match is trying to convey but imo under no circumstance is working a match like this believable. It's like the veteran vs rookie story where the veteran drops the son of a bitch 20 times on his head only to have the rookie drop him about 2 times and win the match. It's just never the way to work a match imo. I don't care how determined you are, I drop you your head, you lay here bitch. Once, you kick out maybe. Twice....eh. But by the third time, that's it. Four, five and six times and the match ventures into finisher fest. Especially when right after dropping you on your head, you get up like nothing and drop me on my head and we basically take turns on each other.

Ah but fuck it. Speaking of out of context, this entire fucking post is out of context lol. I just needed a place to discuss why i think indy wrestling is in the toilet and well this place needs a match discussion thread dammit!


----------



## Obfuscation

sharkboy22 said:


> I hear a lot of people say things like "It's the context of the match" but to me, that has nothing to do with it. I remember a while back when I shat on Punk/Airires people were telling me, it's because I took it out of context. The part where Punk popped up like nothing after the Pepsi Plunge was apparently to show his determination. You could be the most determined motherfucker around, someone hits you that (not to mention all the fucking cannon balls of moves from before) it's light out. I probably wouldn't have mind had Punk kick out of a 2 but to get directly up after it, is stupid if you ask me.
> 
> In the case of Generico/Steen, I get it was a year in the making but there's so many other ways to go about it. Start off with a brawl, then introduce the weapons. It's foreplay>fucking>rest>fucking>cumshot. Not cumshot>rest>cumshot>rest>cumshot>cumshot>cumshot. And, the finish, meh. I get the message is determination but they went about it wrong imo. You don't need to drop a guy on his head and have him kick out 3 times in 2 minutes to show he's desperate. It become a finisher and nearfall fest quickly. There was just too much head dropping and near falls. These things do not make a match dramatic nor do they add any sort of story. It's just annoying imo. Even if that was the route to put over the whole "What do I have to do to put this guy out" one steel chair certainly isn't as clearly 50 weren't. I get what the match is trying to convey but imo under no circumstance is working a match like this believable. It's like the veteran vs rookie story where the veteran drops the son of a bitch 20 times on his head only to have the rookie drop him about 2 times and win the match. It's just never the way to work a match imo. I don't care how determined you are, I drop you your head, you lay here bitch. Once, you kick out maybe. Twice....eh. But by the third time, that's it. Four, five and six times and the match ventures into finisher fest. Especially when right after dropping you on your head, you get up like nothing and drop me on my head and we basically take turns on each other.
> 
> Ah but fuck it. Speaking of out of context, this entire fucking post is out of context lol. I just needed a place to discuss why i think indy wrestling is in the toilet and well this place needs a match discussion thread dammit!


It's that whole FIGHTING SPIRIT type deal. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

Not surprised you struggled with Davey/Elgin if Generico/Steen couldn't speak to you. It's flat out bad. Also not surprised Meltzer creamed for it. He tends to love matches that go a million miles an hour and done in poor fashion.

I'll get on the official start of Kahagas/Wayne right now. Basketball pulled me away for a few hours.

Btw, the Indie DVD thread is the equivalent of the General Match/DVD/Show discussion thread in the Other Wrestling section. (Y)


----------



## Nervosa

Well, just to start a whole new flame war....

Ziggler vs. Cena from Sunday was absolutely HORRIBLE. It's not everyday I agree with Capone but holy crap was this match awful. I don't even understand how everyone seemed to think this was 4 stars. Has the internet's hard-on for Dolph blinded everyone from how horrible this was?

Cena doing roll-ups and submissions during a ladder match was just the beginning. I hate when this happens and he looked like a total dork for it, but I can overlook that part I guess. 

But then....

Cena spends an inordinate amount of time in the early going just wandering around aimlessly while Ziggler sells. He changes his mind like 6 fucking times when he is taking the ring steps apart. He just looks like he is completely lost. There were so many points in the match where it seemed like both guys were looking for something that wasn't there.

Then we have that sleeper spot. Anyone who can explain the psychology of that entire thing deserves a nobel prize. Cena climbs the ladder while in a sleeper............as if when he gets to the top Ziggler isn't gonna be a full foot above him since he is applying the hold. Then he passes out.....and Ziggler just holds on while they both fall through a table. Just.....incredible levels of 'what-the-hell-was-that.' I have no freaking clue why anyone would ever do what either guy did for that spot. Silly is the most positive word I can come up with.

And then....the worst fucking thing I have ever seen: John Cena's hurricurana. There are not enough words in the English language to describe the utter shit of that execution. Every single fucking Mexican Wrestler in the last 40 years, plus both Steiner Brothers, turned over in their graves when that happened. Ziggler's bump after that was the stuff of legends. Absolutely ridiculous.

The finish is awesome, of course. But everything in before that, even besides the low points I mentioned, was just your typical 2-man plodding spot trading ladder match that WWE has done for the past 8 years or so. Take away the problems I mentioned and its a generic boring match we've all seen before. With all this crap...........this is just bad.

I really try to be the guy who reminds everyone that Cena is really a good wrestler and doesn't deserve to be shit on considering how good he actually is. I have spent a lot of time arguing with those who would say Cena sucks and can't wrestle. I just really gotta hope they didn't see this match the next time I get in that argument. Because this was just idiotic, and sadly, a lot of it is his fault, in my opinion.


----------



## Obfuscation

***1/2 for me.

Hurricanrana didn't irk me at all. It was sloppy, but when has John-boy ever tried it? No harm, no foul. I actually liked the sleeperhold table spot :lol

EDIT ~ Kahagas vs Wayne was unbelievable FUN. ***3/4. Best commentary of the year? Possibly.


----------



## Bubz

Can Sharkboy stop looking for excuses to post about how shit indie wrestling is please. We all know what you think and the majority of people agree with you. It's getting fucking tedious.


----------



## seabs

*Me pimping an obscure Indy match actually got people to watch it? Yay!

I thought Cena/Ziggler sucked too. *


----------



## Concrete

To be truthful Seabs I watched that match a few days ago. I just hadn't decided when to post my thoughts


----------



## DOPA

Ziggler/Cena for me was *** 1/4 - *** 1/2.

Whoever said its a 4 star match....wow. Not even close.


----------



## flag sabbath

Did I miss something? John Cena matches are aimed at children (and therefore silly & illogical by design), right?


----------



## bigbuxxx

Got around to watching SSB vs YB's from Death to Metal and that match blew me away. I didn't think it could top the 3 way ladder match but it really did for me. Easily my MOTY from the US.

Maybe not the place to ask but on the subject of PWG does anybody know where I can find a 2009 pack of events? I've found 03-08 and 10-12 but 09 is nowhere. Somebody plz pm it if you know where to find them.


----------



## Obfuscation

flag sabbath said:


> Did I miss something? John Cena matches are aimed at children (and therefore silly & illogical by design), right?


I really hope you're joking.


----------



## flag sabbath

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> I really hope you're joking.


There's humour & exaggeration in there of course, but at the same time, I honestly don't concern myself with all the dumb shit WWE & TNA pull 'cos I don't feel like I'm a part of their target audience.


----------



## Obfuscation

Ok, then fair enough. b/c I know Cena is very appealing to the youngsters, and WWE does market him towards them much like Hogan, but that isn't his _only_ target audience. I'd say the entire audience is, of course. Only, there happens to be a group out there who would rather not see him succeed or even at all.


----------



## sharkboy22

*Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin*
Has Dave Meltzer lost his fucking mind? There was a point in time when I could have considered this man's opinion to be the be end, end all but what the hell is wrong with this man? Apart from robbing the WWE countless matches of the almighty "*****" the guy seems to have a new-found love hard hitting, high impact, spot infested matches. Are you telling me that this match is in the same boat as Flair/Steambaot? or Flair/Funk COC? or Ausrin/Bret? Let's get on with the review.

The match stars off instantly with Davey in intense mode. I liked it. Or I should say I didn't mind it. As clumsy and lost as he looked just walking around hitting Elgin kicks on the barricade, it worked. He gets Elgin back in the ring and in no time Elgin manages to hit a torture rack backbreaker as Davey rebounds off the rope. From here, Elgin targets the back of Elgin and I must say Davey sold well. I thought Davey did one hell of a sell job as Elgin worked the back, especially during that stretch (I can't for the life of me remember atm what it's called)

Anyway, that's the first 5 minutes or so. I really don't know what the hell happened because I thought the match was off to a great start. Here's when things started to go downhill. Richards, on the apron, grabs a hold of Elgin's head tries to hit it on the turnbuckle but Elgin counters. Elgin hits Davey's head on the turnbuckle, Davey does a complete NO SELL and hits Elgin's head on the turnbuckle and man down. From here, all the back work, everything is ignored and match goes into rage mode. DAT WORKRATE!!

Honestly, I don't even know where to go from here with this review. I really can't even do a play by play analysis or anything because the match is one giant clusterfuck. It just breaks down into a demonstration of moves and street fighter combos. Elgin did a powerbomb to Davey on the barricade put it meant nothing. The match is one giant blur quite frankly. So many things happen in so little time that I just can't even keep up with it. The amount of moves done in one sequence is ridiculous. Not to mention makes no sense. I can't even remember the finish. This match is just terrible. This is not a MOTYC, guys like Davey Richards and Michael Elgin and matches like this are ruining the sport of professional wrestling. Despite what the crowd may have thought, this isn't wrestling. This is garbage. This is, as I call it, a demonstration of moves. A spectacle really. ROH claims to be pro wrestling and anti-sports entertainment. My ass. This is sports-entertainment in its purest form. Bright, flashly moves done for the sake of a "Holy shit" chant. Nothing more, nothing less. 

Oh and I would like to point out one more thing. Nigel McGuiness could make a damn fine WWE commentator. Why? Because he sure mistakes the viewers for idiots. Richards successfully does a T-Bone suplex to Elgin. A couple seconds later he attempts another one and Nigel says "It's too early in the match, Richards hasn't worn him down enough yet to get the big man off his feet" Umm, I just saw him like 30 seconds ago pick him up and throw him around.

If this match is a 5 star match then I can think of about 20 other matches this year that should also be considered 5 stars. This match is no different from any other ROH main event. 

*1/2 for the good start and quite frankly there's no possible way to write no stars. And the idea of negative stars just doesn't sit too well with me but if there ever were a match deserving of it, it would be this one.


----------



## Obfuscation

I credit Nigel for making fans try to care about the guys involved. Especially Elgin. Kevin Kelly with his infamous "this is the greatest wrestling match I've ever called" line deserves to be smacked in the head.

You forgot to mention the hilarious part when Davey drops Elgin on his head from the top rope and then the crowd goes apeshit for the rest of the match after being dead for the first 15 or so.

*1/2 is where I'm set at too.


----------



## sharkboy22

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> I credit Nigel for making fans try to care about the guys involved. Especially Elgin. Kevin Kelly with his infamous "this is the greatest wrestling match I've ever called" line deserves to be smacked in the head.
> 
> You forgot to mention the hilarious part when Davey drops Elgin on his head from the top rope and then the crowd goes apeshit for the rest of the match after being dead for the first 15 or so.
> 
> *1/2 is where I'm set at too.


You know how the die hard ROH fans love to say "I don't WWE because I don't like having my intelligence insulted" Well here's the thing, in order to have your intelligence insulted you need to actually have intelligence. And I make no apologies when I say this and quite frankly I don't care but some of these ROH die-hards (more specifically these anti-WWE rebels) are literally to stupid to insult. Because anybody that buys into these type of matches is a freaking idiot. I don't mind if someone just loves this style of wrestling but to go out on a limb and say that the "WWE style match" insults your intelligence is mind boggling when guys are getting dropped on their head from the top rope repeatedly and kicking out like it's nothing.

Oh and I just want to elaborate on how I rate matches. I know a lot of people may be thinking if I hated the match so much why not **1/2 or heck how about *** stars. Because that would imply the match was somewhat decent. Here's how I look at ratings. To me star ratings isn't about the number of high spots or holds or moves in the match, it's my overall enjoyment. A three star match is just that. A match that's nothing special but at the same time nothing bad. Your typical Kofi Kingston match. A match doesn't have to be a certain length to be considered in the three star range. it could be 4 minutes and I would still give it three stars, or maybe less like **1/2. Example, Show vs Lesnar SS '02.

To me star ratings are just my overall enjoyment with a match and things like number of moves and spots and certainly the length of the match has no impact on my overall enjoyment. 

Anyway, enough of that before I land my ass in hot water. I believe I went the entire 2012 without ever getting banned, a first might I add lol. Anyyway, when it comes to other wrestling my MOTY is Tanahashi/Suzuki. Posted a review of it a few pages back.

Okada/Naito I have at ****1/4 Great match but nothing memorable in the long run to me. As for Tanahashi/Okada, I'm not as high on it as most people for some odd reason. Haven't seen it since but I believe my initial rating was ***3/4. If I feel like it I'll probably give it a second viewing.


----------



## DOPA

Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada: **** 1/2

Tetsuya Naito vs Kazuchika Okada: **** 1/4

Okada is becoming one of my favourite wrestlers at the moment. Great worker, plus his theme is badass.


----------



## Obfuscation

I've said the same thing. Try going to an indie event live and trying to talk to someone about WWE. Fucking idiot wouldn't even put ONE aspect of the company over. This was years ago btw. I was trying to talk about how awesome Punk being World Champion was. The guy's excuses and shaking his head over and over was hilarious. The only flaw then was ROH was actually still in a great place. Now when people try that it's even more baffling, frustrating, annoying.

That's how I rate matches. I can't give a match I don't like something decent or good. That's solid logic. "I hated this match. But it was pretty good." That...that doesn't work. Now there can be a match where someone isn't crazy about it, but they realize it wasn't bad. That philosophy is fine. Like for me, I really don't like Michaels vs Angle from WrestleMania 21. So I don't give it a good rating. That's all these snowflakes are used for. As a reference to know where you place things at. No different than any other ranking system out there. It comes down to quality & preference.

Tanahashi vs Suzuki & Okada vs Naito are both at ****3/4 for me. Tanahashi vs Okada II is at ****1/2. Tremendous matches. I've put those over all the time in this thread.


----------



## Certified G

I thought Richards/Elgin was awesome (from Showdown In The Sun, haven't seen any others). I'd definitely rate it 5 stars. One of the most enjoyable matches I have seen all year. Though as I have said in the past I look for way different things in a match than most people (especially people here in Other Wrestling).


----------



## Concrete

sharkboy22, I'm curious to here what some of your favorite WWE matches are from this year. You clearly are not a fan of the indy style, which is fine by me, so I'd be interested to hear what you loved in the WWE. They have no doubt had some great matches.


----------



## sharkboy22

Crusade said:


> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada: **** 1/2
> 
> Tetsuya Naito vs Kazuchika Okada: **** 1/4
> 
> Okada is becoming one of my favourite wrestlers at the moment. Great worker, plus his theme is badass.


Is it weird that I find him to be like a Japanese Randy Orton? There's something about his mannerisms that are Orton-like.


----------



## Obfuscation

I'm gonna say it's weird. b/c Okada has a charismatic presence. Something Randal tends to lack.

While Orton is a consistent worker, I'd say he's nowhere near the level of consistent that Okada is currently rocking.


----------



## DOPA

sharkboy22 said:


> Is it weird that I find him to be like a Japanese Randy Orton? There's something about his mannerisms that are Orton-like.


I've never thought of that comparison I will admit.

I need to rewatch Tanahashi vs Suzuki again. Had it at **** 1/4 - **** 1/2 on first watch. The whole of NJPW KOPW is phenomenal. My favourite wrestling show I've seen all year.


----------



## sharkboy22

enlightenedone9 said:


> sharkboy22, I'm curious to here what some of your favorite WWE matches are from this year. You clearly are not a fan of the indy style, which is fine by me, so I'd be interested to hear what you loved in the WWE. They have no doubt had some great matches.


Hmmm, WWE 2012 has been strange for me. There's been a handful of great matches but for some reason none of them really stand out to me. maybe Michaels/Taker have completely spoiled me and my expectations of a match of the year. The only match that's truly WWE MOTY for me is Lesnar/Cena.

As for the other matches I enjoyed:

Sheamus/D-Bryan WM XXVIII fantastic match. 18 seconds of pure wrestling. lol jk. I'm obviously referring to their Extreme Rules match

Punk/Jericho ER
Cena/Punk NOC
The Shield vs Team Hell No/Ryback

There are some other matches I'm sure but I can't think of them now. Two matches this year that I'm not as crazy about as other people are Taker/Trips and Jericho/Punk WM 28. Taker/Trips I have at ***1/2 and Jericho/Punk is at ***3/4. The reason, well I think I've posted enough about those two matches all year long. Especially Taker/HHH.


----------



## Goku

MOTY: Brock/Cena ER


----------



## Ham and Egger

sharkboy22 said:


> Is it weird that I find him to be like a Japanese Randy Orton? There's something about his mannerisms that are Orton-like.


I think of him like a Randy Orton too. Just with a lot more charisma! :lol


----------



## Chismo

bigbuxxx said:


> Got around to watching SSB vs YB's from Death to Metal and that match blew me away. I didn't think it could top the 3 way ladder match but it really did for me. Easily my MOTY from the US.


Ummm, yeah. Agreed. Chaos and mayhem. And NICK JACKSON! The match beautifully consists of 3 phases - violent and chaotic ringside brawling, which culminated with Stupefied's ridiculous dive, then there was that long segment where the Bucks controlled stuff, and it was beautiful. Finally, the finishing stretch was insane.
*Rating: ******



Bubz said:


> Can Sharkboy stop looking for excuses to post about how shit indie wrestling is please. We all know what you think and the majority of people agree with you. It's getting fucking tedious.


Meh, just put him on the ignore list, like I did. He's horrible, he even called Aries "vanilla midget piece of shit" once.


----------



## Nervosa

sharkboy22 said:


> Hmmm, WWE 2012 has been strange for me. There's been a handful of great matches but for some reason none of them really stand out to me. maybe Michaels/Taker have completely spoiled me and my expectations of a match of the year. The only match that's truly WWE MOTY for me is Lesnar/Cena.
> 
> As for the other matches I enjoyed:
> 
> Sheamus/D-Bryan WM XXVIII fantastic match. 18 seconds of pure wrestling. lol jk. I'm obviously referring to their Extreme Rules match
> 
> Punk/Jericho ER
> Cena/Punk NOC
> The Shield vs Team Hell No/Ryback
> 
> There are some other matches I'm sure but I can't think of them now. Two matches this year that I'm not as crazy about as other people are Taker/Trips and Jericho/Punk WM 28. Taker/Trips I have at ***1/2 and Jericho/Punk is at ***3/4. The reason, well I think I've posted enough about those two matches all year long. Especially Taker/HHH.


Don't you have a problem with Seamus forgetting about the armwork in the 2/3 falls match with Bryan?

Did you enjoy Punk/Bryan at Over the Limit?


----------



## geraldinhio

Christmas Lights said:


> MOTY: Brock/Cena ER


Can't argue with this. (Y)

I hate when people say it's hard to rate because it's so different that any other WWE match. It's unique and different and told an immense story and that's what made it great. Didn't mind Cena winning either,maybe I'm alone with that part. 

I might try compile my MOTYC list later. I'm missing so much matches, mainly NJPW.


----------



## Nervosa

geraldinhio said:


> Can't argue with this. (Y)
> 
> I hate when people say it's hard to rate because it's so different that any other WWE match. It's unique and different and told an immense story and that's what made it great. Didn't mind Cena winning either,maybe I'm alone with that part.


Agree on all of this.


----------



## Chismo

Punk/Bryan (OTL) is my WWE MOTY, that was superb. I have Lesnar/Cena at ***3/4.


----------



## Bubz

Punk/Bryan is also my WWE MOTY. Brilliant match. Brock/Cena needs another re-watch to decide on a rating, even though I've already watched it twice and still haven't rated it in here yet I don't think. It's fucking amazing to watch though.


----------



## asdf0501

Lesnar/Cena is far and ahead my MOTY, probably will be remember as one of the best matches in the history of the company. The build for the cena comeback is probably one of the best i have ever seen.

After that i have two lucha matches: Angel Blanco Jr./El Hijo del Solitario vs. El Hijo Del Santo/Villano IV - TXT 2/25 and Blue Panther vs ***** Casas - CMLL 3/2


----------



## sharkboy22

Nervosa said:


> Don't you have a problem with Seamus forgetting about the armwork in the 2/3 falls match with Bryan?
> 
> Did you enjoy Punk/Bryan at Over the Limit?


Interesting. Can't recall it tbh. I need to re-watch it.

That's one of my probs with Sheamus though.m He likes to work his opponent's arm early in a match and then makes no work of it later. His matches with Barrett all involve him working the arm and nothing ever becomes of it. Nothing but filler chain wrestling. I also recall his FCA match with D-Bryan on RAW. Again, attacked the arm yet for some reason Bryan seemed more interesting in selling the knee. Or at least I think that's what happened. Point is, Sheamus attacked the arm and it didn't play into the match at all.

As for Punk/Bryan, I've been saying for the longest while that I need to re-watch it and I still haven't come around to as yet. As a matter of fact every match i listed needs a re-watch.


----------



## Ham and Egger

My favorite match this year has to be Storm/Roode at BFG. Punk/Bryan would be up there too but it'd be my match of the year if Bryan had won the title!


----------



## Nervosa

sharkboy22 said:


> That's one of my probs with Sheamus though.m He likes to work his opponent's arm early in a match and then makes no work of it later. His matches with Barrett all involve him working the arm and nothing ever becomes of it. Nothing but filler chain wrestling. I also recall his FCA match with D-Bryan on RAW. Again, attacked the arm yet for some reason Bryan seemed more interesting in selling the knee. Or at least I think that's what happened. Point is, Sheamus attacked the arm and it didn't play into the match at all.


Well, in the 2/3 falls match, bryan Works Seamus' arm, which is what I was talking about. Then Seamus ignores it near the finish, espeically with his backbreaker. Then the finish kinda comes out of nowhere. Seamus' lack of selling his arm really ruined the whole match for me. 

So yeah, I didn't mean Seamus' opponent forgetting, I meant Seamus not selling his own arm.


----------



## Concrete

*Kyoko Kimura vs. Natsuki Taiyo-STARDOM X STARDOM(8/5/12):****1/4+*
_I have not seen this match mentioned here I don't believe which is either because not a ton of people have seen it or if someone did see it they hated it. I on the other hand loved it. This may be the most hate filled match I've seen all year. I've never seen a dog fight but I assume this it was it looks like in human form. Taiyo never gives up and looks like a maniac the way she was running around which was fantastic. Kimura on the other hand looked like a killer. Right in the beginning portion of the match there was crowd brawling and Kimura tried to pick Taiyo up by the hair but Taiyo refused to get up so Kimura nails Taiyo with a BRUTAL knee. These women were not going hold for hold with each other at all. If there was a hold it was a violent one which Kimura showed perfectly. Hate? Check. Bruting Monster? Check. Nutso underdog? Check. Stiffness?CHECK! Awkward ending for such brutal match? Sadly, check._
If you wanna check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS4lcef__IU


----------



## Rickey

*Kahagas vs Damien Wayne(NWA)*-Just watched this based off recommendations a few posts back. Pretty fun brawl and Damien Wayne's accent reminds me of Steve Austin right off the bat. I too thought the blood might not have been needed but still I guess it did add to the brutality. Loved the crowd getting involved, Kahagas stumbles to the ring and pushes fans out of the way. An older guy then yells out "Hey! You didn't have to push me like that!" Another match that showcases shorter matches sometimes doing the job better than long drawn out matches. The commentator really sold the craziness of the match too. Also really loved the fact that there were barely any 'wrasslin' moves used. As far as I remember there were only 3: Chops, Leg Drops and Body Slams. The rest of the match was just straight up fighting and limited weapon use, an all around fun brawl. 

Thanks for the recommendation. (Y)


----------



## sharkboy22

Rickey said:


> *Kahagas vs Damien Wayne(NWA)*-Just watched this based off recommendations a few posts back. Pretty fun brawl and *Damien Wayne's accent reminds me of Steve Austin right off the ba*t. I too thought the blood might not have been needed but still I guess it did add to the brutality. Loved the crowd getting involved, Kahagas stumbles to the ring and pushes fans out of the way. An older guy then yells out "Hey! You didn't have to push me like that!" Another match that showcases shorter matches sometimes doing the job better than long drawn out matches. The commentator really sold the craziness of the match too. Also really loved the fact that there were barely any 'wrasslin' moves used. As far as I remember there were only 3: Chops, Leg Drops and Body Slams. The rest of the match was just straight up fighting and limited weapon use, an all around fun brawl.
> 
> Thanks for the recommendation. (Y)


I totally forgot to mention that in my review but because the match was so damn good I completely for about it. And he played the crowd really well, like Austin would. "They're here to see a fight!" The guy's good.


----------



## Rickey

Yeah I already like the guy based off that one match. Will be interesting to see where his career goes in the next few years.


----------



## Concrete

*Rush vs. Terrible-CMLL(Hair vs. Hair-9/14/12):****1/4*
_*I’ve watched this match twice now, the TV version as well as a fancam version, and I thought this match was fan-friggin’-tastic. I’m not going to lie, I know next to nothing about Lucha and this is honestly only the second lucha match I’ve seen all year so I don’t know how the matches are supposed to be structured or what not. I also have know idea who Rush or Terrible are. All I know after watching this match is Rush is giant dick. Taking time to soak in all the boos he was receiving. Rush clearly loved it. He totally made this match. Without his pure dickishness (that’s not a word but Rush exemplifies it) Terrible’s comebacks wouldn’t have been nearly as great as they were. Terrible is doing topes on Rush and on what would be the last in the sequence, Rush moves and slams Terrible’s head into the barrier while Terrible is in the air. Oh and those comebacks were awesome. I, a non-lucha guy who doesn’t know anything about either man here, was cheering for Terrible when he got on the attack just because how much of an ass Rush was being. The fancam showed some awkward moments but not enough to bring down the rating.*_


----------



## Obfuscation

WWE MOTY - John Cena vs Brock Lesnar ~ ****3/4

Honest definition of EPIC. :mark:

Only matches I've liked at the same level was Tanahashi vs Suzuki & Okada vs Naito I.


----------



## Rah

enlightenedone9 said:


> *Rush vs. Terrible-CMLL(Hair vs. Hair-9/14/12):****1/4*


This was around the time I stopped having time to watch any wrestling. I seriously need to watch this show! I can't believe I forgot about it. :sad:

Did you, by chance, manage to watch the rest of the anniversary show? I've read Puma King/Rey Cometa was the better match. It was the bout that had me invested in the card, too.

Edit: 

*El Terrible Vs Rush (cabellera contra cabellera)*
Part 1 (HD) || Part 2 (HD)

Typical CMLL booking here for the first two falls. Short, uneventful and filler just to allow for the longer, third fall. Sometimes they get it right but, honestly, this type of booking annoys the hell out of me. To hell with "lucha tradition", book a single-fall (non-lightning) match if that's what you're going for. Sloppy first fall pin, and if you blinked you'd have missed the second. Yawn.

The third fall, though, is possibly everything that is right with lucha (or wrong, depending on how you see Rush). Everything here was about purpose, that "play-time" was over and that it was now time to be more serious in how they faced each other. Each move was made to count, each moment made to play off their dynamic. Rush's lack of respect for Terrible, for instance, was perfectly exemplified by his viciously stiff running dropkick straight to Terrible's jaw.

"Vamos Terrible!" shirts and signs were seen in abundance (and the camera made good note of the women wearing them), but the outcome was always going to be Rush as your winner. Everyone knew this but, credit where its due, CMLL did build up hope for the impossible. Going into the match, Terrible was your country hero (having pinned Tanahashi, a feat Rush failed in doing) and at a seemingly obvious advantage. Apparently the live-cam captures more of Terrible's closeness in pulling off an upset victory than this, but the moment was still brought across here. Post-match, though, the symbolism of victor/loser is seemingly reversed. Rush might have won, but at what price? The loser is cheered while the winner's not only booed out of the arena but pelted with rubbish on his way out. The fact that Rush had to put Terrible away with a piledriver (a move that's enjoyed a very slippery slope in terms of its legality within the lucha world) also cannot sit well with him.

It'll be interesting to see where CMLL takes Rush from here. Simplistically, Rush reminds me of CM Punk (the arrogant good guy) its just too bad (for CMLL's bookers) that he's hated as much as he is, as they don't seem to be able to make money from this very idea.

A good highlight to their feud, and the best match of the series. If you've watched their title matches then you owe it to yourself to watch this. Not a blow-away MotY but still one of the better lucha matches of this year.
*Rating:* ****​


----------



## Concrete

I haven't seen Puma King vs. Rey Commeta but admittedly I just don't watch lucha much at all. Between working, video games, other wrestling, and school(which I don't have right now so I'm trying to catch up right now on some stuff before the year ends) I usually don't have time for it. As far as Rush/Terrible I'm glad I didn't enjoy it an abnormal amount compared to someone who actually enjoys lucha. Was debating on whether to even post my review


----------



## Obfuscation

I'm sure you're thoughts were pretty spot on. When Lucha is done right, you just know. It's 9/10 excellent.

You like Chikara. I'm surprised that hasn't given you some Lucha knowledge right there, haha. Like a Cibernetico match for an example.


----------



## Concrete

I know how Cibernetico's work, the tag rules, but then I hear lightning matches(1 fall sprints from what I've gathered?), maestro matches, and how title matches are a almost a completely different style of lucha compared to wager matches(more hate?).Chikara definitely has shown me more of the concepts of lucha as in regards to some match types and the such but as far as how all these matches in lucha tend to be structured it hasn't been as helpful haha.


----------



## Obfuscation

That's true, that's true. haha. Well, best way to get into the product is to do what you did. Jump right in and watch. I'd say a good event to introduce you to more Lucha would be the When World's Collide show from 1994. It's got English commentary, loads of famous stars, and some really, really great matches on it.


----------



## Concrete

I have DVDVR's top 20 matches from the 90s, I have just been too much of a panzy to tackle it.


----------



## Obfuscation

Panzy down. Tackle it ASAP!


----------



## Concrete

As soon as the New Years hits I'll throw that in but I'm going to try and jam as much wrestling from 2012 between now and then. That being said...

*Black Terry vs. Chico Che-IWRG(1/22/12):*****
_*THE BLOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!! I don’t usually feel squeamish watching anything. I can watch a deathmatch where I see barbed wire literally pulling some guys skin away and sharp objects stuck in wrestlers foreheads. I watch horror movies where people are being sliced in half and there Is blood everywhere. They way Terry and Che bled in this match though made me uncomfortable.

This match is a brawl in every sense of the word and while I enjoy a good brawl I tend not to rate them as highly compared to other sorts of matches. There was only one move during the match that didn’t seem to fit the “I’M GOING TO KILL YOU, YOU BASTARD!” mentality of the match that being Che’s random headscissor. Besides that though, fantastic-ness. Terry looks like he’s going to die in this match the way Che is beating him up. Once Terry gets on the advantage Che is literally begging to not get the living piss beat out of him which is fantastic.

There have been a ton of matches this year where I wasn’t a big fan of the ending. The ending of this match delivered SO well. There were silly sick headbutts that were made all the better by the camerawork that makes you feel disgusting. Plus it was a clean finish. The saddest thing after watching this match is that I will probably never watch the Hair vs. Hair match.*_


----------



## Kid Kamikaze10

I'm throwing in this one. Tokyo Sports was right.

Tomohiro Ishii vs Masato Tanaka, NEVER Tournament, November 15 2012 - **** 1/2 

Absolute Strong Style war. From the get go, there were strike exchanges. No holding back. Just throwing forearms, chops, headbutts, slaps, and enough fighting spirit to create another generation of Indy copycats (*cough*AmericanWolves*cough*).

However, like a good strong style fight, there was lots of selling, more from Ishii than Tanaka. There was a time when Ishii looked totally spent, and Tanaka was egging him on for a good minute or so, building up Ishii's spirit for the next half of the match. There are other fun moments like this. And it wasn't like they hate each other: they are on the same stable. Hell, they HUGGED after the match.

Yet they fought like it was for the IWGP Heavyweight Title. So awesome.


If you liked Ishii vs Goto, great. This is better.


----------



## MF83

Where'd you find that?


----------



## asdf0501

enlightenedone9 said:


> *Black Terry vs. Chico Che-IWRG(1/22/12):*****


This is in my Top 10 for the year. Black Terry greatness never cease to amazes me


----------



## Concrete

asdf0501 said:


> This is in my Top 10 for the year. Black Terry greatness never cease to amazes me


Really awesome brawl. Not at all surprised if it was in people's top 10. Working on my top 25 right now and its becoming real difficult.

Can this thread stay like it has the past few days for all of next year? Some stuff is stupid but in general within the past few days we've talked about, not just one mentioned it and it died, an obscure indy match, lucha talk which rarely ever happens, some WWE and a lil' PWG and with that we round out a glimpse of what the year has shown us in awesome wrestling. I think I actually started using this forum during the Best in the World War of 2011. Now I thought some of that talk was plain silly it was at least healthy discussion on matches. And here we go with more people involved and all that lovelyness. 'Merica. Or UK. Or Australia. Or Russia. Or wherever you are from. 

And now I have to track down Ishii vs. Tanaka before the year ends. Thanks for the recommendation.


----------



## Yeah1993

Not getting to see the hair match is devastating, yeah. I hope one day BTJr. will make the stuff public again.


----------



## Lane

CTWE Season Beatings
Joey Burcco vs Frankie Arion.
****

Great story telling match. Arion is a great fucking heel. Watching the hype vid only adds to the match. Unfortinatly Burcco seemingly got hurt as he looked as if he didnt know where he was at but they still managed to have a damn good match. 

Link here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBMcNm-yh44


----------



## Nervosa

Kid Kamikaze10 said:


> I'm throwing in this one. Tokyo Sports was right.
> 
> Tomohiro Ishii vs Masato Tanaka, NEVER Tournament, November 15 2012 - **** 1/2
> 
> Absolute Strong Style war. From the get go, there were strike exchanges. No holding back. Just throwing forearms, chops, headbutts, slaps, and enough fighting spirit to create another generation of Indy copycats (*cough*AmericanWolves*cough*).
> 
> However, like a good strong style fight, there was lots of selling, more from Ishii than Tanaka. There was a time when Ishii looked totally spent, and Tanaka was egging him on for a good minute or so, building up Ishii's spirit for the next half of the match. There are other fun moments like this. And it wasn't like they hate each other: they are on the same stable. Hell, they HUGGED after the match.
> 
> Yet they fought like it was for the IWGP Heavyweight Title. So awesome.
> 
> 
> If you liked Ishii vs Goto, great. This is better.



I've been looking for this everywhere!!!!!!!! Where did you see it?


----------



## Kid Kamikaze10

Nervosa said:


> I've been looking for this everywhere!!!!!!!! Where did you see it?


DJ Ice posted the NEVER tourney in his Puro Pack over at the Puro Media section.


----------



## Bubz

*Young Bucks vs. Kenny Omega & El Generico*
So. Much. FUN! Loved this. Omega came off as so much fucking better than almost everyone on the roster btw, excluding guys like Bucks and Generico. It's the way he carries himself, his mannerisms as well as his fluidity in the ring and his ability to string a combination or sequence together so much better. His time in Japan really has done wonders for him because he came off as a superstar in the PWG roster that the fans were amazed to see back in the ring. Starts off comedy based, the arm wrestling thing was awesome. Great control segment on Generico by Bucks, as if anything else was ever possible. Transition into the hot tag ruled completely. Finishing run is absolutely fantastic, awesome sequences and transitions, great selling by Generico, Bucks getting cocky costing them, some really good near falls and it never goes into overkill and finishes just at the right time. Finish is awesome as hell to boot. Brilliant tag match, and the best of the year, liked it more than the ladder match and the Guerilla warfare match. Loved it!
*****¼+*


----------



## MF83

Kid Kamikaze10 said:


> I'm throwing in this one. Tokyo Sports was right.
> 
> Tomohiro Ishii vs Masato Tanaka, NEVER Tournament, November 15 2012 - **** 1/2
> 
> Absolute Strong Style war. From the get go, there were strike exchanges. No holding back. Just throwing forearms, chops, headbutts, slaps, and enough fighting spirit to create another generation of Indy copycats (*cough*AmericanWolves*cough*).
> 
> However, like a good strong style fight, there was lots of selling, more from Ishii than Tanaka. There was a time when Ishii looked totally spent, and Tanaka was egging him on for a good minute or so, building up Ishii's spirit for the next half of the match. There are other fun moments like this. And it wasn't like they hate each other: they are on the same stable. Hell, they HUGGED after the match.
> 
> Yet they fought like it was for the IWGP Heavyweight Title. So awesome.
> 
> 
> If you liked Ishii vs Goto, great. This is better.


"Strong Style" this is not. They went out there and said "we shall wrestle evenly" and went through their wide collection of typical segments all stiff and fighting spirit-like. This suffers from Masato Tanaka being predictable and his half of the no-selling was lazy. It was really, really cooperative to the point it took away some from me. Ishii, while good, didn't give a master performance like vs Goto. They put some new stuff together at the end, with some good counters and a couple good transitions, but like a lot of the match it was all too "wait for each other"-y to be amazing. Props for giving this much away in a semifinal match on a throwaway show but blah, not nearly as good as I was hoping for. Not to say it was under four stars cause it really is quite good but it's not excellent. ****


----------



## seabs

*Tomohiro Ishii vs Masato Tanaka - NEVER 15.11.2012*
_Isn't as great as the Goto/Ishii match but it's fun, short and Ishii delivers once again. Tanaka sucks nearly every time these days and didn't add anything to it. His selling felt phony when he did sell and he had his usual no sell spots that are just annoying. He strikes hard though and he's fine getting hit just as hard and in the context of this match that was enough. Ishii's selling was wonderful I thought. Both short and long term. Put Tanaka's strikes over great and got the hierarchy level of super. Ishii's a master at making himself look legit while still maintaining the roster hierarchy. His selling always made it feel like he was in a uphill battle but he's fucking Ishii and he aint going down till he's down. More meat for arguing how good Ishii is, even with lesser workers which Tanaka certainly is. _

******

*Shinsuke Nakamura & Tomohiro Ishii vs Kazuchika Okada & YOSHI-HASHI - NJPW 21.11.2012*
_Now this is where it's fucking at. Possibly my no gimmick tag MOTY, certainly top 3 at the very least. Nakamura and Okada create magic when they're against each other. Them 2 main eventing a PPV is the one match I NEED to see at some point. I just adore them trying to outswag each other and mocking each others poses. YOSHI-HASHI fucking sucks but the other 3 guys in a New Japan tag is more than enough to make up for it. The good thing about YOSHI-HASHI being at the very bottom of the roster barrel is that it means Ishii gets to work as the bully rather than the victim. Shock altert, Ishii's just as good playing the bully as he is playing the victim. Control segment on YH is really great with Ishii and Nakamura just having fun having their way with him. Thought the control segment was gonna be split in two when it ends halfway through the match but instead there's a great struggle segment for control which transitions beautifully into the finish. Nakamura just stomping on Okada's toes to regain control ruled the world. Everything they do together is just amazing and everything Ishii does is brilliant too. Only down part is when YH runs through his moveset on Nakamura and sucks the life out of the match momentarily. Then Okada comes back in and we get back to the greatness we were at before in an instant. Wonderful stuff. Watch this and then imagine how good it could have been with someone better than YH in there._

*****1/4*


----------



## darkclaudio

NJPW Final World Tag League 2 Diciembre 2012

1. Kengo Mashimo, Minoru Suzuki, Taichi & TAKA Michinoku vs BUSHI, Masaaki Mochizuki, Ryusuke Taguchi & Yuji Nagata (11.42) *3/4
2. Jado & YOSHI-HASHI vs Rush & Diamante Azul (8.24) *1/4 
3. Semifinal World Tag League Semi-Final Match: Killer Elite Squad (Davey Boy Smith Jr. & Lance Archer) vs Togi Makabe & Wataru Inoue (12.08) **1/4
4. NJPW World Tag League Semi-Final Match: Sword and Guns (Hirooki Goto & Karl Anderson) vs TenKoji (Hiroyoshi Tenzan & Satoshi Kojima) (14.41) **1/2 
5. Manabu Nakanishi & Strong Man vs Toru Yano & Takashi Iizuka (3.50) 1/2*
6. Manabu Nakanishi, Strong Man, MVP & Shelton Benjamin vs Masato Tanaka, Toru Yano, Takashi Iizuka & Yujiro Takahashi (8.18) *1/2
7. Laughter 7 (Katsuyori Shibata & Kazushi Sakuraba) vs Shinsuke Nakamura & Tomohiro Ishii (9.20) **3/4
8. Kazuchika Okada & Gedo vs Hiroshi Tanahashi & KUSHIDA (15.19) **1/2
9. NJPW World Tag League Final Match: Sword and Guns (Hirooki Goto & Karl Anderson) vs Killer Elite Squad (Davey Boy Smith Jr. & Lance Archer) (15.37) **1/2


----------



## Bubz

Think you posted that in the wrong thread .

Must watch that Okada/Nakamura tag tonight! MUST!


----------



## Obfuscation

Son of a. How did a tag with Nakamura & Okada on OPPOSING sides slip by me?


----------



## Bubz

I was thinking the same.

For anyone who watches DDT, how many Generico/Ibishi matches have there been this year? Think I remember hearing they had a series or something culminating in Generico winning the belt? And are they good?


----------



## Concrete

asdf0501 said:


> Lesnar/Cena is far and ahead my MOTY, probably will be remember as one of the best matches in the history of the company. The build for the cena comeback is probably one of the best i have ever seen.
> 
> After that i have two lucha matches: Angel Blanco Jr./El Hijo del Solitario vs. El Hijo Del Santo/Villano IV - TXT 2/25 and Blue Panther vs ***** Casas - CMLL 3/2


Forgot to ask but do you or anyone else have a link to that tag match?


----------



## flag sabbath

Bubz said:


> I was thinking the same.
> 
> For anyone who watches DDT, how many Generico/Ibishi matches have there been this year? Think I remember hearing they had a series or something culminating in Generico winning the belt? And are they good?


I think there were three - one at Max Bump in April or May, then two in short succession in September & October. They're all on dailymotion & yeah, they're definitely worth a watch.


----------



## Obfuscation

All on Dailymotion?

*zooms over and favorites as I write this post*

aw yeah


----------



## seabs

*Eddie Edwards vs Michael Elgin - PWG Failure To Communicate*
_I fucking loved this and I am totally ashamed of myself for it. I have no idea how to explain why but I'll give it a go. Biggest factor was the PWG environment. Steen + Excalibur commentary + Reseda crowd means I'm bound to at least the enjoy the match, even if it's abysmal. This isn't your average Davey Richards match full of no selling, stupid mannerisms and generally horrible. The big stuff had me marking out and there was enough neat little touches for me to really appreciate it. Little stuff like Elgin trying to protect his chest from the chops because this is fucking Eddie Edwards chopping him, Elgin's struggle to hit the Chaos Theory suplex and the bucklebomb and Elgin climbing the ropes intentionally slow when Eddie was due to cut him off. I thought Eddie's selling was really great. In fairness Eddie normally does good sell jobs when the match isn't back and forth for 30 minutes. Elgin actually looked like a powerhouse in this rather than a small guy doing strong man moves which is often the case. He looked dangerous and it actually felt like Edwards was facing a challenge to survive with Elgin rather than a load of moves with no context. Elgin hits a lot harder than usual and that made up for a lot. The strike battle in the corner I particularly loved because Elgin really laid into those short lariats. Eddie's running kick when he totally clears the top rope was nuts in the best way possible and a great transition sequence. The match felt structured too. Opening battle to gain the upper hand which Elgin wins. Into Elgin dominating Edwards for a bit until Eddie hits something out of nothing to get back into the match. Then into the struggle for the finish. Benefited the match a ton at the end because it felt like they'd come to a significant point in the match rather than just another turn in the tale. Elgin's got that finishing run over really well in PWG which is extremely ironic given where he works the majority of his matches. At BOLA he fucking beat everyone bar Cole with the same sequence. So when he goes for that buckle bomb here and Eddie counters it it's fucking huge rather than just another counter of another move. Elgin's spinning back fist finally looked viscous too. Just the right amount of time too. Long enough for them to get enough stuff in for it to rule but short it enough for it to be fast paced and not drag. This ruled. I've completely lost my mind. Michael Elgin is the best wrestler in the world. I've seen the light now._

*****1/2*

*Young Bucks vs El Generico & Kenny Omega - PWG Failure To Communicate*
_Excalibur asked Knox something during this along the lines of "why do they do that" to which Knox replied "I have no other idea but it makes the crowd hate them". Or something along those lines. Point is that it hit the nail on the motherfucking head about why the Bucks are so awesome as heels. They're the douchebags that everyone has known at some point who think everything they do is genius when it really isn't and everything they do makes you want to kick their heads in. This in a pro wrestling environment is what makes pro wrestling work. They. Are. The. Fucking. Best. I'm seriously considering them for WOTY right now. I don't give a fuck if they're a tag team. Oh and on the other side is Generico and Omega. Eh. Not bad. Omega's Bill Kazmaier look was odd. Looked as though he was in town and decided to work the show without being in any way prepared. Kinda came off that way in the ring a bit. Let Generico/Bucks do the meat of the match and Omega comes in does his thing. Fortunately Omega has got good enough to be able to do this and still be really good. 99 times out 99.1 I'd hate the arm wrestling segment. With these guys though it was one of the best things ever. Nick and Generico fighting on the outside like it was a pin off a finisher was amazing. Pro wrestling people. This is what pro wrestling is. Not moves and kicks. This. Characters, goofiness, stories and action. Nick springboarding 50 feet in the air onto Omega's back to break up an arm wrestling contest on an Indy show in 2012 is beyond what words can detail. Bucks working over Generico is always gonna be great. It's as much of a given as New Years Day will fall on January 1st. Some things happen for a reason and don't change. Finishing stretch I thought was the weakest part of the match but still really good. Maybe went a tad long in the middle and tad to little time to actually lay a match out between the four of them. Actual finish itself was great though. Generico and Bucks need to tour outside of Reseda more god damn it. _

*****1/4*


----------



## Obfuscation

Lord Santa Claus IV. said:


> *Eddie Edwards vs Michael Elgin - PWG Failure To Communicate*
> _I fucking loved this and I am totally ashamed of myself for it. I have no idea how to explain why but I'll give it a go. Biggest factor was the PWG environment. Steen + Excalibur commentary + Reseda crowd means I'm bound to at least the enjoy the match, even if it's abysmal. This isn't your average Davey Richards match full of no selling, stupid mannerisms and generally horrible. The big stuff had me marking out and there was enough neat little touches for me to really appreciate it. Little stuff like Elgin trying to protect his chest from the chops because this is fucking Eddie Edwards chopping him, Elgin's struggle to hit the Chaos Theory suplex and the bucklebomb and Elgin climbing the ropes intentionally slow when Eddie was due to cut him off. I thought Eddie's selling was really great. In fairness Eddie normally does good sell jobs when the match isn't back and forth for 30 minutes. Elgin actually looked like a powerhouse in this rather than a small guy doing strong man moves which is often the case. He looked dangerous and it actually felt like Edwards was facing a challenge to survive with Elgin rather than a load of moves with no context. Elgin hits a lot harder than usual and that made up for a lot. The strike battle in the corner I particularly loved because Elgin really laid into those short lariats. Eddie's running kick when he totally clears the top rope was nuts in the best way possible and a great transition sequence. The match felt structured too. Opening battle to gain the upper hand which Elgin wins. Into Elgin dominating Edwards for a bit until Eddie hits something out of nothing to get back into the match. Then into the struggle for the finish. Benefited the match a ton at the end because it felt like they'd come to a significant point in the match rather than just another turn in the tale. Elgin's got that finishing run over really well in PWG which is extremely ironic given where he works the majority of his matches. At BOLA he fucking beat everyone bar Cole with the same sequence. So when he goes for that buckle bomb here and Eddie counters it it's fucking huge rather than just another counter of another move. Elgin's spinning back fist finally looked viscous too. Just the right amount of time too. Long enough for them to get enough stuff in for it to rule but short it enough for it to be fast paced and not drag. This ruled. I've completely lost my mind. *Michael Elgin is the best wrestler in the world. I've seen the light now.*_
> 
> *****1/2*


:lol

If I watch that match and hate it, I'm going to e-punch you as hard as I can imagine doing since it's technologically impossible.


----------



## Bubz

*El Generico vs Kota Ibushi (DDT 21/10)*
Holy shit balls. This fucking ruled. Seriously a brilliant match, with a great story. This is the last match they had together this year, and the story is basically that they know each other inside out, and holy shit they played it so well. Ibushi gets a short control segment on Generico working over his mid-section, it doesn't last long, but it didn't need to. Generico still sells it beacuse, well, he's Generico and he's wonderful like that. They always seem to be one step ahead of each other somehow and there are some amazing sequences and counters. Absolutely adored the finishing run. They counter everything, so there's no overkill on moves, and when they do hit the moves it creates some great nearfalls, despite me knowing who won. Ibushi even goes for the Yakuza kick - Brainbustah combo because he can't hit his own moves and it's a great moment. There's even a suplex exchange that I liked because it fit with the context of the match, Ibushi hits a dragon suplex and Generico gets up and hits a half nelson out of desperation because he knows he absolutely has to in order to prevent Ibushi from following up, and it's not like he didn't sell it either, he was still barely able to stand afterwards. Seriously, I was marking out big time at some of the stuff they did in the final minutes, and the finish was absolutely perfect for the story of the match and everything they did that proceeded it. Fanfuckingtastic, and I'd rate it just below my favourite New Japan matches this year, and it's easily the best Jr style match this year imo.
*****1/2*

:lmao at Seabs review of Eddie/Elgin. Not the fact that you liked the match, just the fact that you seem confused as to why you did. I enjoyed it a lot tbh. Oh yeah, think I mentioned it in my review, but Eddies kick to Elgin when he wa son the apron was fucking incredible.

Glad to see you liked the tag match too. Great shit.


----------



## Obfuscation

quick question before I watch: Bubz, does that Generico vs Ibushi match rape their match in ROH/Chikara?


----------



## Bubz

Not seen the CHIKARA match, but yeah it's loads better than the ROH match imo.


----------



## Obfuscation

:mark:

I creamed over the other matches so YES. _(Chikara was a 4 way but they interacted so I said fuck it, it counts)_


----------



## Bubz

Ohhhhh, that 4 way. Yeah I liked it more than that too . It's got a much better story than any of the other matches they've had (that I've seen anyway), it's not as spot heavy either due to the fact they literally have counters to each others counters and it's awesome. What spots they do hit actually fit into the story too so it's a bonus.


----------



## Obfuscation

4 way was pretty infamous among fans. Figured you've seen it. 

Sounds stellar. Debating which way I want to start right now. Probably best to knock Generico vs Ibushi out of the way. Then finish on through Power Struggle '12. Then Osaka Pro show, and ending with random ROH dvd. Maybe I'll cram some Joshi in there. Got Chikara too, but today seems more of a Puro day. Fuck RAW tonight. I'll save that for later when I'm probably drunk with my brother over the Holidays.


----------



## Concrete

*Brodie Lee vs. Jay Freddie vs. Matt Milan vs. Jason Axe-2CW(4/14/12):*****
*I saw this match live and let me say that this came off even better on DVD. No one is probably going to believe me, or if they saw it might not like it as much as I since I have some bias here, but this match was damn good. You have Lee, current 2CW champion at the time despite not physically having the belt, in his last independent wrestling match before going to development. You also have Matt Milan who had beat Lee a couple of months prior, Jay Freddie a the man who had just lost the belt the previous night, and Jason Axe who will probably always be Freddie’s most bitter rival as long as they are in 2CW. Freddie and Axe go at each other hard in this match and one instance in particular Axe yells at Freddie, “I’m the Juggernaut[which is Axe’s nickname] bitch!” which Freddie replies with a tombstone. 

Something 2CW did wonderfully here that they for some reason they didn’t follow through with was Freddie turning heel in this match. Horrible booking on their part to not acknowledge this in the future but if they had actually followed through with it then it would have came off very well just by this one match. To eliminate his biggest nemesis he smacks him in the back with a chair(which probably wasn’t needed since Milan just booted him the chest after being eliminated).That would get it down to him and Brodie which was the best part of the match. Freddie is running his mouth towards Brodie so he gets nailed with a boot. When Freddie gets on offense he throws in a debatably low shot as well as holding the trunks when going for pins. All Brodie really needed to finish this newly pissed off former champion was an absolutely SICKKKKKKKKKKK running Liger Bomb off a counter in the corner! Fun stuff.*


----------



## Nervosa

Lord Santa Claus IV. said:


> *Eddie Edwards vs Michael Elgin - PWG Failure To Communicate*
> 
> This isn't your average Davey Richards match full of no selling, stupid mannerisms and generally horrible.
> 
> In fairness Eddie normally does good sell jobs when the match isn't back and forth for 30 minutes.


What, you mean every single Edwards Singles match ever? 

Unless, of course, this happens to be the first time ever that Eddie can go five minutes without hitting his shit. Or, you know....actually let the other guy have a control segment or an extended comeback of some kind. Because with all due respect, I have never seen him go five minutes straight while getting worked over in in a singles match without having to hit his shit. Not once. Not in one single match. I continue to be convinced that he has no idea how to structure a match, and I continue to consider him the most overrated worker on the planet.

Damn it, Seabs. I was really hoping 2012 would be a year without an Edwards MOTYC.


----------



## Obfuscation

He can't be the most overrated with people claiming Michael Elgin is the most improved of the year and Davey Richards is legit a good worker. I know you hate Eddie, but he's hardly ever put over minus the matches vs Davey last year.


----------



## Brye

Just posted this in the DVD thrad but figured I'd put it here too. 

TLC 2012: Ryback, Daniel Bryan & Kane vs The Shield

A couple days before, I had said that I wanted this match to go down like Resilience vs No Remorse Corp/Matt Sydal from Death Before Dishonor V in ROH. And that's exactly what I got...only better. I'll start off with the weapons. We had a couple new table spots, Ambrose using chairs like a beast, some pretty cool bumps with the ladder and no ridiculous climbing for no reason. I know a fear was that there'd be tons of climbing for no reason, but all we had was the big bump at the end and that made sense. What I loved most about this match though was the comeback phases. First Kane got a big one, Ryback had a few and then the Bryan one where he locks in the No! Lock on everyone is fucking great. The crowd was big into it as well. But every time it looked like the good guys were out of it, someone would make the save for them. Also loved the camera work in this match. Emphasizing Bryan trying to crawl to help Ryback down at the stage and then Ryback making his way back to the ring but too late. Only complaint with this match is that Kane seemed to be down kinda long. Same with Ryback after the announce table spot. But that barely hurts this for me. ****1/2


----------



## Obfuscation

Brye have you seen anything else from the year that isn't WWE/TNA? b/c I'll do a quick plug in trying to get you to watch a Puro match or two...


----------



## Brye

I really haven't been able to catch much other stuff this year. My friend went to a PWG show that did Steen/Generico in a Guerrilla Warfare match that he said owned but I haven't caught any puro or indy stuff for the most part this year. :/

Would love some suggestions. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation

hmm. Neither had a Guerrilla Warfare match this year (vs each other), but maybe he meant their ladder match from last year?

Top 3 Puro matches of the year imo are:

Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito ~ NJPW 40th Anniversary Show
Kazuchika Okada vs Hiroshi Tanahashi ~ NJPW Dominion
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki ~ NJPW King of Pro Wrestling

Aren't you a fan of Lance Hoyt/Vance Archer? He's had some awesome tag team matches in NJPW this year. He's in a tag team with Harry Smith (David Hart Smith). Has a tag team championship match on the same iPPV that I mentioned, King of Pro Wrestling. It's my show of the year, btw. It's amazing. Well worth a watch if you have time. Plus, it has some other names you're familiar with like Low Ki, Alex Shelley, Rocky Romero, & the Hoyt/Smith tag match.

Indie stuff: Steen vs Generico Last Man Standing from Showdown in the Sun Night One, Adam Cole vs Kyle O'Reilly HYBRID FIGHT RULES from Best in the World '12, anything involving Eddie Kingston defending his Chikara Grand Championship in Chikara. (vs Brodie Lee, Sara Del Rey, Tadasuke, Jigsaw, etc) El Generico vs Sara Del Rey from Chikara Hot Off The Griddle, 3 Way Guerrilla Warfare for Tag Team Championship from PWG Threemendous III, and while I haven't seen it, but it is getting universal praise - The Young Bucks vs El Generico & Kenny Omega from PWG Failure To Communicate. 

Just some matches all off the top of my head. Tried to think of wrestlers you're mostly familiar with to help you out. Had to plug Chikara since the high point of the company this year was all of the great singles championship matches with Kingston. You might enjoy the Steen vs Rhino & Steen vs Michael Elgin championship matches from ROH Death Before Dishonor & Glory By Honor, respectively. Also, caution, but if you're curious to see Davey vs Elgin from Showdown in the Sun Night 2, then there is always that. Meltzer gave it the full 5. I hate it, but personally, that's me.


----------



## Brye

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> hmm. Neither had a Guerrilla Warfare match this year (vs each other), but maybe he meant their ladder match from last year?
> 
> Top 3 Puro matches of the year imo are:
> 
> Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito ~ NJPW 40th Anniversary Show
> Kazuchika Okada vs Hiroshi Tanahashi ~ NJPW Dominion
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki ~ NJPW King of Pro Wrestling
> 
> Aren't you a fan of Lance Hoyt/Vance Archer? He's had some awesome tag team matches in NJPW this year. He's in a tag team with Harry Smith (David Hart Smith). Has a tag team championship match on the same iPPV that I mentioned, King of Pro Wrestling. It's my show of the year, btw. It's amazing. Well worth a watch if you have time. Plus, it has some other names you're familiar with like Low Ki, Alex Shelley, Rocky Romero, & the Hoyt/Smith tag match.
> 
> Indie stuff: Steen vs Generico Last Man Standing from Showdown in the Sun Night One, Adam Cole vs Kyle O'Reilly HYBRID FIGHT RULES from Best in the World '12, anything involving Eddie Kingston defending his Chikara Grand Championship in Chikara. (vs Brodie Lee, Sara Del Rey, Tadasuke, Jigsaw, etc) El Generico vs Sara Del Rey from Chikara Hot Off The Griddle, 3 Way Guerrilla Warfare for Tag Team Championship from PWG Threemendous III, and while I haven't seen it, but it is getting universal praise - The Young Bucks vs El Generico & Kenny Omega from PWG Failure To Communicate.
> 
> Just some matches all off the top of my head. Tried to think of wrestlers you're mostly familiar with to help you out. Had to plug Chikara since the high point of the company this year was all of the great singles championship matches with Kingston. You might enjoy the Steen vs Rhino & Steen vs Michael Elgin championship matches from ROH Death Before Dishonor & Glory By Honor, respectively. Also, caution, but if you're curious to see Davey vs Elgin from Showdown in the Sun Night 2, then there is always that. Meltzer gave it the full 5. I hate it, but personally, that's me.


Just looked up the show and it was Adam Cole/Kevin Steen. 

Thanks for the puro suggestions and that Archer stuff sounds great. I was a big fan of him and I liked DH Smith. I'll give that show a look since I mark for Shelley and Ki as well.

The indy stuff sounds good. Might skip out on the Young Bucks match as I'm not a huge fan but GENERICO might make up for that. My friend met Generico at a PWG show this year. 

Steen/Rhino sounds pretty cool too. I can already tell I wouldn't like Richards/Elgin but I might sit through it if I have time just in case.


----------



## Obfuscation

Clark Griswold said:


> Just looked up the show and it was Adam Cole/Kevin Steen.
> 
> Thanks for the puro suggestions and that Archer stuff sounds great. I was a big fan of him and I liked DH Smith. I'll give that show a look since I mark for Shelley and Ki as well.
> 
> The indy stuff sounds good. Might skip out on the Young Bucks match as I'm not a huge fan but GENERICO might make up for that. My friend met Generico at a PWG show this year.
> 
> Steen/Rhino sounds pretty cool too. I can already tell I wouldn't like Richards/Elgin but I might sit through it if I have time just in case.


Ah ok. The latest PWG show. Damn. I'm jealous. I'm so close but I still didn't go haha. It's probably excellent.

Yeah, please man. It's such a fantastic show. Only match that didn't deliver was the one that was short for storyline purposes/injury. Poor Naito. He had a brief run in TNA during 2009 as a part of the tag team No Limit. Maybe that will ring a bell. Shelley & Ki's matches are AWESOME. (Y)

GENERICO SWAG. He makes everything good. I hope you'll warm up to the Young Bucks soon. They're one of the best tag teams going today. Such a superb team. I've met them, but not Generico directly yet. I've had Generico acknowledge me and high five me so ! You're friend is damn lucky.

Watch Richards/Elgin with your buddies so you guys can laugh together. I'm serious. That's the funny part. :hmm:


----------



## Nervosa

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> He can't be the most overrated with people claiming Michael Elgin is the most improved of the year and Davey Richards is legit a good worker. I know you hate Eddie, but he's hardly ever put over minus the matches vs Davey last year.


Even this year, people are talking about what an elite worker he is. I know this may get me in trouble, but I'll take Elgin every single day over Eddie, and to me, everything people hate about Davey, Eddie does worse.

Also, I gotta give a big thumbs down to Ibushi/Generico. You know I love you, Bubz, but I'm sorry, 'COUNTERZ!!!' is not a story. I love counters as much as the next guy: nothing makes me mark out more, usually. But that is literally all there was to this match. A negligible lack of any kind of control and then just two guys going back and forth for most of the match. I know that compared to most on this board, I require a control session to really enjoy a singles match, so maybe that's why I disliked it so much. But if a match ends up being back-and-forth through the entirety of the match, its likely I'll hate it, which is why I hate almost all of Eddie Edwards' matches. I simply saw no story at all here. 

From my understanding, people hated Elgin/Davey because there was very little selling behind the random moves and momentum switches. Even so, what little control there was in the backwork was more than anything here. I have only seen both of these matches once, but I continue to be confused by matches like this being loved while Elgin/Richards was hated. Quite frankly, I am baffled that this is a MOTY candidate.


----------



## Brye

I think I vaguely remember No Limit. (Y)

I think I just need the right matches to watch Young Bucks. Most of their stuff I've seen was the TNA stuff and I just didn't love it.

:lmao One of my friends that's really into wrestling absolutely hates Davey so he'd probably get a kick out of it.


----------



## Obfuscation

Nervosa said:


> Even this year, people are talking about what an elite worker he is. I know this may get me in trouble, but I'll take Elgin every single day over Eddie, and to me, everything people hate about Davey, Eddie does worse.
> 
> Also, I gotta give a big thumbs down to Ibushi/Generico. You know I love you, Bubz, but I'm sorry, 'COUNTERZ!!!' is not a story. I love counters as much as the next guy: nothing makes me mark out more, usually. But that is literally all there was to this match. A negligible lack of any kind of control and then just two guys going back and forth for most of the match. I know that compared to most on this board, I require a control session to really enjoy a singles match, so maybe that's why I disliked it so much. But if a match ends up being back-and-forth through the entirety of the match, its likely I'll hate it, which is why I hate almost all of Eddie Edwards' matches. I simply saw no story at all here.
> 
> From my understanding, people hated Elgin/Davey because there was very little selling behind the random moves and momentum switches. Even so, what little control there was in the backwork was more than anything here. I have only seen both of these matches once, but I continue to be confused by matches like this being loved while Elgin/Richards was hated. Quite frankly, I am baffled that this is a MOTY candidate.


Yeah, I'm one who's not gonna concur with that. I'll gladly take Eddie Edwards over Michael Elgin every day.

I'm on Generico/Ibushi II from this year. First match was really fun. Not crazy about the lack of selling by Ibushi with the arm. It made that part of the match feel like nothing mattered till the finishing stretch. Other than that it was good.

I also have no complaints if match lack a control segment. If it is balls to the wall, then I'm down. As long as it's done right. Davey/Edwards wasn't if you ask me. I've seen some that were. I'm considering King's Road matches to be along this same type. Flat out action the moment the bell rings. So if Generico vs Ibushi is that equivalent in a fast paced, high counter form, then I'll probably love it.



Clark Griswold said:


> I think I vaguely remember No Limit. (Y)
> 
> I think I just need the right matches to watch Young Bucks. Most of their stuff I've seen was the TNA stuff and I just didn't love it.
> 
> :lmao One of my friends that's really into wrestling absolutely hates Davey so he'd probably get a kick out of it.


Only about 2 matches with Bucks in TNA were really noteworthy. vs Guns at No Surrender & Bound For Glory. BFG was AWESOME.

:lmao Oh then it might have to be a must.


----------



## Kenny

Okay what's some good "other wrestling" I can watch?


----------



## Nervosa

Is King's Road considered synonymous with no control segment? I was not under this impression, at all.

Even so, what is the difference, then? To me, with no control segment, there is no comeback, and its very hard to develop a story after that. You said Davey/Eddie wasn't 'done right,' but I guess I'm asking where does one 'controlless' match succeed where another fails?


----------



## Obfuscation

KING KENNY KRINGLE said:


> Okay what's some good "other wrestling" I can watch?


El Generico vs Sara Del Rey from Chikara Hot Off The Griddle. 

:mark:



Nervosa said:


> Is King's Road considered synonymous with no control segment? I was not under this impression, at all.
> 
> Even so, what is the difference, then? To me, with no control segment, there is no comeback, and its very hard to develop a story after that. You said Davey/Eddie wasn't 'done right,' but I guess I'm asking where does one 'controlless' match succeed where another fails?


Most of the time the King's Road matches are fairly even. Lots of bombs being thrown often with a flow that tends to go back and forth. Never said there were no control segments. Please don't put words in my mouth.

As for explaining it, well it's not really so cut and dry with an explanation. When you see a match like a Kobashi vs Misawa just tear it up in 25 minutes of pure action be great, then you see Davey vs Edwards in a 30+ minute match, which is full tilt, just come off as if something was wrong. It depends on the talent in the ring of course. Proof proven that not everyone can go out for an extended amount of time and unleash everything they have. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. When you have the right people out there selling and working a match correctly things look good. You know, basic wrestling 101 comprehension.


----------



## Nervosa

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Most of the time the King's Road matches are fairly even. Lots of bombs being thrown often with a flow that tends to go back and forth. Never said there were no control segments. Please don't put words in my mouth.
> 
> As for explaining it, well it's not really so cut and dry with an explanation. When you see a match like a Kobashi vs Misawa just tear it up in 25 minutes of pure action be great, then you see Davey vs Edwards in a 30+ minute match, which is full tilt, just come off as if something was wrong. It depends on the talent in the ring of course. Proof proven that not everyone can go out for an extended amount of time and unleash everything they have. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. When you have the right people out there selling and working a match correctly things look good. You know, basic wrestling 101 comprehension.


Sorry for putting words in your mouth, that certainly wasn't my intention. And maybe I'm really mixed up here, but a match that is back and forth all the way through would, by default, be lacking a control segment, correct? In fact, you mention selling....but if every move can immediately be countered throughout the entire match, is it really selling? I don't mind back and forth aspects of a finishing run, but I think if there isn't a control segment and a comeback, the finishing run means very little. In other words, if the whole match feels like a finishing run, I feel like it takes the air out of the finish.

See for me, the Kobashi/Misawa matches always had a workover to establish control and comeback. I don't remember any of their 4 big singles encounters ever being so back-and forth that there was never control, which is what I saw in Ibushi/Generico and Elgin/Richards. A lot of people just like action, so it doesn't bother them, but for me I kinda need control in order to show a story. when people can say they hate Elgin/Richards but love Ibushi/Generico, it causes me to wonder about the difference.


----------



## Obfuscation

Nervosa said:


> Sorry for putting words in your mouth, that certainly wasn't my intention. And maybe I'm really mixed up here, but a match that is back and forth all the way through would, by default, be lacking a control segment, correct? In fact, you mention selling....but if every move can immediately be countered throughout the entire match, is it really selling? I don't mind back and forth aspects of a finishing run, but I think if there isn't a control segment and a comeback, the finishing run means very little. In other words, if the whole match feels like a finishing run, I feel like it takes the air out of the finish.
> 
> See for me, the Kobashi/Misawa matches always had a workover to establish control and comeback. I don't remember any of their 4 big singles encounters ever being so back-and forth that there was never control, which is what I saw in Ibushi/Generico and Elgin/Richards. A lot of people just like action, so it doesn't bother them, but for me I kinda need control in order to show a story. when people can say they hate Elgin/Richards but love Ibushi/Generico, it causes me to wonder about the difference.


Maybe I just wasn't clear and that's what got you mixed up. Not necessarily does matches back and forth lack a control segment. I know in one of the Kobashi vs Misawa matches there was arm work, but it was done in a way that I wouldn't say falls under some other matches I've seen in Puro or Indie where the arm work has the pace slowed completely down - insert post control segment - and the match breaks loose. With Kobashi vs Misawa it all flowed into one long continuous flow that was at a pretty heavy, consistent pace. That's my perception of it. Davey vs Edwards had zero aspects of that. Where it was full tilt the entire time and came off more as a giant blur instead of a fast paced fusion where multiple segments were thrown in and all done so well they intertwined seamlessly.

I haven't seen Generico/Ibushi, but I'm almost certain the reasoning behind it is what I stated before: sometimes the no standout control segment type match with lots of action work and sometimes it doesn't. It's vague and leaves a LOT to be open, but it's probably the best and truest way to elaborate something on a more general sense for overall matches. Once I watch Generico/Ibushi and collect my thoughts on it, I'll describe what it is I liked/disliked about it. I'm sure selling came into play with the match if it was full tilt. Ibushi sold all of Generico's moves well in the first match. Only the arm work control segment felt pointless. 

Oh, btw, I'll chuck this in. I don't like matches that have a control segment for the hell of it. If there is no point for it, then cut the bullshit and go nuts with the action. No sense in building to it when the point of a control segment is to create a comeback AND incorporate damage done to a specific area. I know that personally I'd take a tiny bit of nonsensical action (not much) over pointless control segments that have no place in the match whatsoever.


----------



## Kenny

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> El Generico vs Sara Del Rey from Chikara Hot Off The Griddle.
> 
> :mark:
> 
> 
> 
> Most of the time the King's Road matches are fairly even. Lots of bombs being thrown often with a flow that tends to go back and forth. Never said there were no control segments. Please don't put words in my mouth.
> 
> As for explaining it, well it's not really so cut and dry with an explanation. When you see a match like a Kobashi vs Misawa just tear it up in 25 minutes of pure action be great, then you see Davey vs Edwards in a 30+ minute match, which is full tilt, just come off as if something was wrong. It depends on the talent in the ring of course. Proof proven that not everyone can go out for an extended amount of time and unleash everything they have. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. When you have the right people out there selling and working a match correctly things look good. You know, basic wrestling 101 comprehension.


McQueen has advised against Chikara


----------



## Obfuscation

FUCK Queeny. He doesn't know what he's missing.


----------



## Nervosa

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Maybe I just wasn't clear and that's what got you mixed up. Not necessarily does matches back and forth lack a control segment. I know in one of the Kobashi vs Misawa matches there was arm work, but it was done in a way that I wouldn't say falls under some other matches I've seen in Puro or Indie where the arm work has the pace slowed completely down - insert post control segment - and the match breaks loose. With Kobashi vs Misawa it all flowed into one long continuous flow that was at a pretty heavy, consistent pace. That's my perception of it. Davey vs Edwards had zero aspects of that. Where it was full tilt the entire time and came off more as a giant blur instead of a fast paced fusion where multiple segments were thrown in and all done so well they intertwined seamlessly.
> 
> I haven't seen Generico/Ibushi, but I'm almost certain the reasoning behind it is what I stated before: sometimes the no standout control segment type match with lots of action work and sometimes it doesn't. It's vague and leaves a LOT to be open, but it's probably the best and truest way to elaborate something on a more general sense for overall matches. Once I watch Generico/Ibushi and collect my thoughts on it, I'll describe what it is I liked/disliked about it. I'm sure selling came into play with the match if it was full tilt. Ibushi sold all of Generico's moves well in the first match. Only the arm work control segment felt pointless.
> 
> Oh, btw, I'll chuck this in. I don't like matches that have a control segment for the hell of it. If there is no point for it, then cut the bullshit and go nuts with the action. No sense in building to it when the point of a control segment is to create a comeback AND incorporate damage done to a specific area. I know that personally I'd take a tiny bit of nonsensical action (not much) over pointless control segments that have no place in the match whatsoever.


Ah, I understand a bit more now, thank you for clarifying. I think I am separating two different things that you think aren't necessary exclusive. 

For me, I don't see a story in a match with no control. All matches with no control look the same, and at that point, I am just judging the coolness of spots rather than an actual story. Your discussion of the importance of 'flow' helps a little bit, and I totally understand how a lot of matches shift gears much too suddenly, without flow.

For me, a match with no control segment and a back-and-forth match are the exact same thing. My mistake is that was a bad assumption.

I guess even our definitions of selling could be completely different. Is selling just showing pain, favoring a limb, or being unable to recover with your own offense for a while? For me, that third one is as important as the other two, and if a whole match is just two guys hitting spots and counters, as I think Ibushi/Generico was, I have a hard time calling that good selling. I mean, when it comes to brass tax, Generico makes everything look great just by how be bumps and emotes physically, which is awesome. Even when I think he is recovering too quickly, I could never say he isn't selling. But When Ibushi nails a huge moves and Generico immediately counters the very next thing, it makes me think the previous move must not have been as effective as it looks. 

I should also clarify, to go along with your last paragraph a bit, that I don't think undercard matches necessarily need control segments, and I think tag matches fall under a different realm of evaluation, so I don't need a control segment every time. But in a top singles match, if there's no control, it seems to morph into a 'spot and counter' exhibition more than a match with a story.


----------



## Kenny

I'll give it a go soon. 

might even review it!


----------



## Obfuscation

Nervosa said:


> Ah, I understand a bit more now, thank you for clarifying. I think I am separating two different things that you think aren't necessary exclusive.
> 
> For me, I don't see a story in a match with no control. All matches with no control look the same, and at that point, I am just judging the coolness of spots rather than an actual story. Your discussion of the importance of 'flow' helps a little bit, and I totally understand how a lot of matches shift gears much too suddenly.
> 
> I guess even our definitions of selling could be completely different. Is selling just showing pain, favoring a limb, or being unable to recover with your own offense for a while? For me, that third one is as important as the other two, and if a whole match is just two guys hitting spots and counters, as I think Ibushi/Generico was, I have a hard time calling that good selling. I mean, when it comes to brass tax, Generico makes everything look great just by how be bumps and emotes physically, which is awesome. But When Ibushi nails a huge moves and Generico immediately counters the very next thing, it makes me think the previous move must not have been as effective as it looks.
> 
> I should also clarify, to go along with your last paragraph a bit, that I don't think undercard matches necessarily need control segments, and I think tag matches fall under a different realm of evaluation, so I don't need a control segment every time. But in a top singles match, if there's no control, it seems to morph into a 'spot and counter' exhibition more than a match with a story.


I'd say selling is a mix of all 3 aspects you brought up. Showing the pain while taking the punishment. Getting that emotion from the fans if it is a face in peril segment. Favoring the limb is key & as is being unable to recover. I LOVE spots when they make it seem they will no-sell adrenaline rush through the pain and then out of nowwhere BOOM, totally sold the injured body part and can't connect with what they wanted. 

Ibushi didn't really incorporate that much in the first match with Generico. Which is why I brought up the point about thoughtless control segments in my last post. When I see some matches go into full moves/action mode it depends for me if I can deem there is no story. _(I'm stuck on that whole "depends how it goes - sometimes yes/sometimes no" kind of fact. That's just how I view matches, man)_

I agree about the difference in singles match control phases and tag team. Completely different dynamics every time.


----------



## Nervosa

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> _(I'm stuck on that whole "depends how it goes - sometimes yes/sometimes no" kind of fact. That's just how I view matches, man)_


Yeah, I think I might be trying to quantify the unquantifiable with this topic. I have kinda asked this same question many times, and this is usually what people say. I'm really just trying to understand where people draw the line, when it comes down to it. I guess I feel like there has to be something that everyone sees in control-less matches that makes some better than others, and I'm just trying to see it. I don't know a good control-less match from a bad one, so I'm kinda trying to figure it out.

I guess its really just about this Elgin/Richards match where I just don't see where the rage comes from when a lot of matches seem similar to me, this Generico/Ibushi match just being the one that broke the camel's back, I guess.


----------



## Obfuscation

I think part of it is b/c of the pedestal that Davey vs Elgin got placed on. Then you watch and and it's not quite up to the level that it was said to be. That's what I felt about it. Felt like usual Davey trash to me.


----------



## Kenny

what are some other wrstling promotions?


----------



## Nervosa

That makes a lot of sense. I have never liked Davey's stuff since 09 (I LOVED Richards 06-09), but I really enjoyed the Elgin match, and thought the back-selling as good, and that all of the finishing stuff, while frenzied, never seemed to lose purpose. I thought people hated it just because it was tons of spots for no reason, but I see matches praised on here that do the exact same thing, which is more than a little confusing I guess.


----------



## Obfuscation

Chikara
PWG
ROH
CZW
EVOLVE
Dragon Gate USA
SHIMMER
SHINE
Interspecies Wrestling
New Japan Pro Wrestling
All Japan Pro Wrestling
Pro Wrestling NOAH
DDT
Big Japan Wrestling
Dragon Gate
Osaka Pro
SMASH
Ice Ribbon
Diamond Ring
Westside Xtreme Wrestling
AAA
CMLL

etc.



> That makes a lot of sense. I have never liked Davey's stuff since 09 (I LOVED Richards 06-09), but I really enjoyed the Elgin match, and thought the back-selling as good, and that all of the finishing stuff, while frenzied, never seemed to lose purpose. I thought people hated it just because it was tons of spots for no reason, but I see matches praised on here that do the exact same thing, which is more than a little confusing I guess.


I to loved Davey back in the day. I can't take his work most time nowadays. I don't credit him for the reason why I liked the tag match at Final Battle, but he was involved. Can't deny that. 

The Davey/Elgin match was so convaluted for me to care. I scoffed it off pretty easily. Not my cup o' tea. But, it all comes down to taste really. If you found it for what it was then more power to ya. I don't see it nor will I ever.


----------



## Kenny

jfc thats alot of wrestling


----------



## Obfuscation

:lol

there's MUCH more in this world beyond WWE & TNA.


----------



## Kenny

i know that but still. what promotions do you like?


----------



## Obfuscation

I can honestly say all of the ones I listed at one point or another. All Japan doesn't capture my interest atm and ROH is FAR from being where it once was, but I still give them (mostly ROH) the time of day. My favorites would be Chikara, New Japan Pro Wrestling, & PWG. IMO the 3 best promotions going today. I know someone will rival Big Japan, but I'll stick with what I chose. Once again, preference plays a part.

I wished HUSTLE was still around. Now that was one of my favorites. Ok I guess with DDT around. Glad I got more into those guys. It's like WWE Japan.


----------



## Kenny

Currently watching this:


----------



## Obfuscation

Match OWNS.

Fitting too with Generico & Ibushi being involved, haha.


----------



## Kenny

What do you rate it?


----------



## Kenny

CARTWHEEL PAI LEI


----------



## Obfuscation

****.

FUN on a maximum level. Best showcase for a "king of high flyers" tournament.


----------



## Kenny

**** 

FUN match.


----------



## Obfuscation

:mark:

Generico DIED


----------



## Kenny

watching kota matches now after that


----------



## Obfuscation

(Y)

That's the one I watched a few hours ago. It's pretty rad granted I had my minor gripe with the lack of arm selling in the finishing stretch. OLE! kick on the outside owned.


----------



## Kenny

What are your top kota matches?


----------



## Obfuscation

I LOVE the majority of his tags while teaming with Kenny Omega. His tour of ROH in 2008 was a lot of fun. That's where the first match vs Generico occurred. Depending on what you like with wrestling he had a really long and over the top match vs Kenny Omega this year. 8/18 was the date I believe. Had a great match vs Low Ki this year in NJPW on their King of Pro Wrestling iPPV. Oh and there is this...


----------



## Chismo

KING KENNY KRINGLE said:


> jfc thats alot of wrestling


Just watch Chikara, PWG and NJPW. For now... :cheer


----------



## Obfuscation

I got him to watch one Chikara match. I consider it a victory. :hayley3


----------



## Bubz

Nervosa said:


> Also, I gotta give a big thumbs down to Ibushi/Generico. You know I love you, Bubz, but I'm sorry, 'COUNTERZ!!!' is not a story. I love counters as much as the next guy: nothing makes me mark out more, usually. But that is literally all there was to this match. A negligible lack of any kind of control and then just two guys going back and forth for most of the match. I know that compared to most on this board, I require a control session to really enjoy a singles match, so maybe that's why I disliked it so much. But if a match ends up being back-and-forth through the entirety of the match, its likely I'll hate it, which is why I hate almost all of Eddie Edwards' matches. I simply saw no story at all here.
> 
> From my understanding, people hated Elgin/Davey because there was very little selling behind the random moves and momentum switches. Even so, what little control there was in the backwork was more than anything here. I have only seen both of these matches once, but I continue to be confused by matches like this being loved while Elgin/Richards was hated. Quite frankly, I am baffled that this is a MOTY candidate.


No hard feelings. Sad you didn't like it though . I get that there was no real control segment, and usually that's what I look for the same as you in order to get the story and the meat of the match flowing, but here I really didn't think they needed it to tell the story they were going for. Usually I wouldn't take 'One-upmanship' as a serious story, and sometimes I think that can come off as a poor excuse for a story in a wrestling match, but sometimes if done right, I really , really like it and that was the case here. I definitely saw a story in there, and I thought the big moves were well built to because of the way they were unable to hit them, almost (definitely not quite as good) like some of New Japan matches this year where they build to the finisher so well because of counters and struggles, only this had a more extended finishing run I guess. When I was writing my review for it I was actually thinking it might be pretty divisive with some of the posters I like on here.

Oh, and I really liked Elgin/Richards btw. I think someone like WOOLCOCK mentioned it in their review, but I LOVED the build up to the spinning powerbomb in that match, and it resulted in an amazing nearfall. Yeah, I'm not one to hate that match. Really enjoyed it.


----------



## Obfuscation

I'll hate it for you. 

You know it might have one aspect that I didn't like, but I'm willing to forgive:

*Chikara* - _Aniversario: A Horse of Another Color_
Meiko Satomura & Kagetsu vs Sendai Sachiko & DASH Chisako ~ ****

A ton of action going on here. In a substantial way. You have various plots througout the match. The vet in Satomura grounding the hyper active sister duo, classic cutting off the ring tag team work _(Kagetsu was really crisp for being the rookie of the bunch)_, the HOT tag sequence which proved Sendai & DASH to turn the offense on, but not for a finishing stretch, but to take control of the match. Only until Satomura came back and and told those bitches to BOW UP or BACK DOWN. In which they decided for the former so they got FUCKING HUMBLED~! Satomura's strikes are nuts. Nothing tops the motherfucking cartwheel KNEE DROP though. Brutal. Granted one of the straight kicks to the face was enough to make fans jump out of their seat. (I know I did) It's the classic case of awesome b/c it goes a long amount of time - nearly 19 minutes - and you still want MORE. Always the best when they leave you fulfilled, yet you want to be like a real American and as for thirds & fourths b/c we're a bunch of greedy twats. I digress. This was awesome. Knocking back all of these Chikara shows is even better the second time around.​


----------



## Chismo

Couple of points:

- I like Elgin, and think he's good. Well, mostly good, not always. His finishing combos look incredibly awesome and compelling, especially in PWG. His control sessions are nothing to write hom about it, but they're not terrible in ORTON range either. 

- For the love of God, I can't see anything special in the Eddie/Elgin match, it was your typical Elgin affair. Not that there's anything wrong with it.

- Eddie is so awesome to watch in PWG, he's having great time over there.

- Eddie/Cole from BOLA is a fucking AMAZING match.

- Need to see the Kota/Generico trilogy, it takes me forever, damn it!

- That KOT 4-Way is bad and makes no sense... but I like it, damn it!

- Davey/Elgin is not THAT bad, it's just... there... in both ROH and PWG. Nothing special tbh, but nothing DUDworthy either. Can't remember the SITS rating, and the PWG one I have at **.




Nervosa said:


> To me, with no control segment, there is no comeback, and its very hard to develop a story after that.


I love you, but that's bullshit, bro. You can tell stories in wrestling matches on millions different ways and contours. There's so much patterns, IMO, and A doesn't nix B or vice versa.


> *Chikara* - _Aniversario: A Horse of Another Color_
> Meiko Satomura & Kagetsu vs Sendai Sachiko & DASH Chisako ~ ****​




Have you seen the amazing Joshi tag from KOT n3? #iwannamarrycommandobolshoi​


----------



## Nervosa

JoeRulz said:


> I love you, but that's bullshit, bro. You can tell stories in wrestling matches on millions different ways and contours. There's so much patterns, IMO, and A doesn't nix B or vice versa.


I know there are other patterns, I just have a really hard time calling a singles match a MOTY without it. Do you think you could give some examples of some truly great matches from the past several years that didn't follow that formula? I am legitimately trying to see things outside of my usual perspective.


----------



## Bruce L

Nervosa said:


> I know there are other patterns, I just have a really hard time calling a singles match a MOTY without it. Do you think you could give some examples of some truly great matches from the past several years that didn't follow that formula? I am legitimately trying to see things outside of my usual perspective.


You didn't ask me, but from what I've seen on this board, it seems to me that you've _seen_ a number of matches from the past several years that didn't follow that formula, and which many others would consider "truly great matches." (Richards/Edwards from _Best in the World 2011_ would probably be the most obvious example I can think of.) In general, however, you've felt they were _not_ great matches specifically _because_ they didn't follow that formula. 

Rather than seeking out matches you haven't seen, I'd suggest revisiting matches you'd previously written off with as different a set of eyes as possible.


----------



## Nervosa

Bruce L said:


> You didn't ask me, but from what I've seen on this board, it seems to me that you've _seen_ a number of matches from the past several years that didn't follow that formula, and which many others would consider "truly great matches." (Richards/Edwards from _Best in the World 2011_ would probably be the most obvious example I can think of.) In general, however, you've felt they were _not_ great matches specifically _because_ they didn't follow that formula.
> 
> Rather than seeking out matches you haven't seen, I'd suggest revisiting matches you'd previously written off with as different a set of eyes as possible.


This is a really good point, but I will say that since then, most people seem to have ended up agreeing with me on matches like the one you mentioned in addition to both Taker/Trips matches and the like. These days, its pretty rare that I ever see a match promoted without control, so I was just wondering if maybe I missed something that illustrates what people like about that format. If Eddie/Davey is really the best example, I guess its just hopeless for me to ever like that kind of match.


----------



## Obfuscation

JoeRulz said:


> Have you seen the amazing Joshi tag from KOT n3? #iwannamarrycommandobolshoi


I did, but I'm in the process of running back over the shows atm. I know I marked for it, but honestly a lot of the Joshi moments of the weekend blend together in my mind. ~!


----------



## Yeah1993

All right fuck, I tried to do this on my own but I won't. Someone give me a definitive list of puro to watch from 2012. Matches, full shows, if you have ***3/4+ lists and stuff. Don't care. I tried to find a bunch of crap on my own and my head hurts. I don't know what to watch or how much I should watch. I will give you the green rectangle of holiness if I don't need to spread it around. I may even posts thoughts in the puro thread of some of the stuff I watch.


----------



## Chismo

Nervosa said:


> I know there are other patterns, I just have a really hard time calling a singles match a MOTY without it. Do you think you could give some examples of some truly great matches from the past several years that didn't follow that formula? I am legitimately trying to see things outside of my usual perspective.


From this year:

- Fox/Callihan matches
- Mack/Elgin
- Gargano/Fox (EVOLVE 13)
- Fish/Fox (EVOLVE 14)
- Fox/Davis (EVOLVE 15)
- Generico/DelSol trilogy
- Mondo/Younger (TOD 11)
- Elgin/Sami
- Mack/Sami
- MASADA/Joker (Tangled Web 5)

Now, there are people who hate some of those matches, but I really like them, and they're all ***1/2+, IMO. Sure, there are face-in-peril segments, but they're not done in the "epic comeback" manner, IIRC.




Yeah1993 said:


> All right fuck, I tried to do this on my own but I won't. Someone give me a definitive list of puro to watch from 2012. Matches, full shows, if you have ***3/4+ lists and stuff. Don't care. I tried to find a bunch of crap on my own and my head hurts. I don't know what to watch or how much I should watch. I will give you the green rectangle of holiness if I don't need to spread it around. I may even posts thoughts in the puro thread of some of the stuff I watch.


Okay, you fuck, one at time, one at time.  Everyone will feed you with well known matches, so I'm gonna give you the obscure ones.

Here's Sekimoto/Hino I: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xu...-hino-k-dojo_sport?search_algo=2#.UNpIZqwfg1s


----------



## ywall2breakerj

Nervosa said:


> I know there are other patterns, I just have a really hard time calling a singles match a MOTY without it. Do you think you could give some examples of some truly great matches from the past several years that didn't follow that formula? I am legitimately trying to see things outside of my usual perspective.


Storytelling is overrated in match analysis. It's not supposed to be over the top and in your face, subtle is the best way to execute it (hence I like to use the term narrative instead-and it sounds cooler as well). The "story" of two Kensuke/Sugiura matches from last year was them hitting each other really hard in the head/chest. Is it really fair to award matches on something that common rather on the actual EXECUTION of it throughout the match? The 23/7 one probably had more violence overall, but the Global League one had a better structure and a hotter finish, thus resulting in a slightly better wrestling match, in my humble opinion. Another reason I'm mentioning those matches-they had very little control. STRIKE EXCHANGE. One goes down. STRIKE EXCHANGE. Another goes down. Throw in a few suplexes into the mix occasionally. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Finish. Many considered those matches strong MOTYCs. If you're talking control segments, layout seems like a much better term. Not saying there isn't a "story" in a match per se but the term is used for everything and anything these days.


----------



## Nervosa

JoeRulz said:


> From this year:
> 
> - Fox/Callihan matches
> - Mack/Elgin
> - Gargano/Fox (EVOLVE 13)
> - Fish/Fox (EVOLVE 14)
> - Fox/Davis (EVOLVE 15)
> - Generico/DelSol trilogy
> - Mondo/Younger (TOD 11)
> - Elgin/Sami
> - Mack/Sami
> - MASADA/Joker (Tangled Web 5)
> 
> Now, there are people who hate some of those matches, but I really like them, and they're all ***1/2+, IMO. Sure, there are face-in-peril segments, but they're not done in the "epic comeback" manner, IIRC.





ywall2breakerj said:


> Storytelling is overrated in match analysis. It's not supposed to be over the top and in your face, subtle is the best way to execute it (hence I like to use the term narrative instead-and it sounds cooler as well). The "story" of two Kensuke/Sugiura matches from last year was them hitting each other really hard in the head/chest. Is it really fair to award matches on something that common rather on the actual EXECUTION of it throughout the match? The 23/7 one probably had more violence overall, but the Global League one had a better structure and a hotter finish, thus resulting in a slightly better wrestling match, in my humble opinion. Another reason I'm mentioning those matches-they had very little control. STRIKE EXCHANGE. One goes down. STRIKE EXCHANGE. Another goes down. Throw in a few suplexes into the mix occasionally. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Finish. Many considered those matches strong MOTYCs. If you're talking control segments, layout seems like a much better term. Not saying there isn't a "story" in a match per se but the term is used for everything and anything these days.


Thanks guys, this gave me a lot to chew on. I think I understand what you guys are saying a lot more. 

So when analyzing matches with very little control, what makes any one better than another? Quality of spots, or flow, or what, exactly? You mentioned execution, which makes sense, but again I go back to Richards/Elgin which didnt seem to have execution problems but was universally panned. I honestly don't think I know how to analyze matches without control other than thinking to myself 'that was cool.' I was just curious how you guys do that.


----------



## sharkboy22

The Elgins/Richards style of match is a match type that will never appeal to me. Seeing things like supexes into a powerbomb into an ankle lock is, how do we wrestling fans put it, having my intelligence insulted. I am able to appreciate other stories apart from the typical heel beats down on the face and babyface makes his comeback. To me it's the most engaging form of storytelling. Especially in a hardcore match type environment.

But I'm able to enjoy other works as well. I enjoyed Tanahashi/Suzuki a lot and it a match taht I have no problem in getting MOTY. Although it was kind of worked like a control segment type match. The psychology was just fantastic in that match. From the limb work to the little things like Suzuki pulling on that bandage (and biting it) the match was just great. And of course it incorporated the one-ups-man-ship style of puro that many enjoy.

Matches where it's just Wrestler A going STRIKE, STRIKE, STRIKE, STRIKE, and then he just stands there while Wrestler B does some STRIKE, STRIKE, STRIKE, STRIKE of his own bore the crap out of me but I can understand why people like it. 

The style of wrestling, and I'm going to sound arrogant here but it wouldn't be my opinion if I tried to sugar coat, I can' understand how anyone could enjoy is the typical indie style match where it's all about big moves and high spots. I guess I understand why people like it, I mean it looks cool to see a top rope suplex followed up by 2 stiff elbows in the corner followed by a double powerbomb followed by an ankle lock (referring to Richards/Edwards BITW here). But to me it just looks dumb really and it's hard to take a match like that seriously. There's no emotional investment and I'm not one of those fans that's inclined to believe that I must go "1-2-ohhhhh" every time a wrestler pins someone and they kickout. It's not automatic that I must care about a pinfall, you have to get me to care about it and quite frankly if a combination like that doesn't end the match, then nothing else but a cannon ball shot to the face would end it.

So yeah if that style of wrestling doesn't appeal to you, don't try to force yourself to like it. That's what I used to do. I really tried to give indie and puro a chance but meh. If someone recommends a match, I'll watch it but other than that I don't go out of my way looking for it.


----------



## Bruce L

Nervosa said:


> This is a really good point, but I will say that since then, most people seem to have ended up agreeing with me on matches like the one you mentioned in addition to both Taker/Trips matches and the like. These days, its pretty rare that I ever see a match promoted without control, so I was just wondering if maybe I missed something that illustrates what people like about that format. If Eddie/Davey is really the best example, I guess its just hopeless for me to ever like that kind of match.


I don't know if it's the best example; it's just the most obvious example I can think of right now of a match you hated that the majority (including me) thought was great. It's true that opinion on it has soured in the past year-and-a-half, but it seems to me that the majority of people who've "learned" to dislike it did so out of a more general learned distaste for Davey matches or some such, rather than for the reasons why you hated it from the start. And again, I seem to remember the reason you hated it from the start being its non-adherence to a formula you say you're trying to see beyond. That might not be the best match for you to revisit for the start of such a project, but think of a match you disliked for similar reasons but with less of a visceral hatred; trying to examine it in a new light might be illuminating.



Nervosa said:


> Thanks guys, this gave me a lot to chew on. I think I understand what you guys are saying a lot more.
> 
> So when analyzing matches with very little control, what makes any one better than another? Quality of spots, or flow, or what, exactly? You mentioned execution, which makes sense, but again I go back to Richards/Elgin which didnt seem to have execution problems but was universally panned. I honestly don't think I know how to analyze matches without control other than thinking to myself 'that was cool.' I was just curious how you guys do that.


I've said this before, but I'll reiterate for purposes of this particular discussion: I view pro wrestling first and foremost as a fake _sport_, rather than a _fake_ sport. Therefore, it's _very_ rare that I'll dislike a pro wrestling match for "not telling a story," because every one does: "Two guys are gonna fight. Who's gonna win?" The scripted, pre-determined, performative aspects of pro wrestling allow for more layers to be added to this story, and for it to be told in a variety of different ways, but that's always the key story; it's the one that's always being told, and there are so many different ways to tell it that it seems odd to me to think that only one of them is any good. The "underdog fighting from behind" story isn't the only way to generate emotion and engagement on the audience's part; it's not even necessarily the best way. 

Quality of spots absolutely matters to me, though I care more about presentation than impact or difficulty to pull off. Flow is huge. Execution is even bigger; for my part, I love Davey/Elgin and that's a big part of the reason why.

The thing that probably matters most to me in terms of matches that most people don't consider good from a "story" standpoint and degrade for the "MOVEZ" factor is performance -- not of the moves themselves (though that absolutely matters) but of character. And I don't mean gimmick or persona, but the more basic level of "Do I believe in this person as a competitor who's doing everything he has to do to win a match?" That's why I'm a lot less bothered by no-selling and fighting spirit" than most on this board; if it's something I see real athletes doing all the time, not only does it not bother me when I see it in pro wrestling, it actually bothers me quite a bit when I _don't_ see it. The way I've explained it before is that I see two kinds of "hurt" in real sports: The kind where you can continue, and the kind where you can't, and the first kind doesn't look much like being hurt at all. That goes double for sports in which taking bumps is just part of the routine, and when pro wrestling tries to portray a different way of working, it makes suspension of disbelief very difficult for me. (Just as a for-instance: I've fallen on my head in the way most "head drop" moves work. It hurt like hell, but if I was trying to win a competition and running on adrenaline when I got hurt like that, it'd take a few such drops before I was hurt enough not to at least try to kick out, and I'm not a particularly tough guy. That's not to say I need to see double-digit head drops before I can believe in a guy staying down for the count; just that it doesn't particularly bother me when a Davey Richards comes roaring back to life after a big superplex spot or whatever. And while John Cena's Superman act can strain credulity even in that regard, it's why I had no problem with him winning the Lesnar match.) I cut some older American wrestling a lot of slack in this regard, because most of the best practitioners -- the Flairs, the Steamboats, et al -- do so many other things so well, but in modern wrestling, that's what I look for. (Puro seems to have this problem a lot less than American wrestling, especially American indy wrestling, which is why it tends to be US indies that produce most of the most controversial matches in this type of discussion.)

So that's my two cents, which I'll admit seems fairly different from most posters on this board, even the ones who've liked long-control-segment-free matches that you've hated. It's entirely possible this all sounds very stupid to you, but hopefully it at least sheds some light on a way of looking at that type of match.


----------



## sharkboy22

Oh and just in case anyone wants to know my hate for indie wrestling, it has nothing to do with me being a smart ass and trying to play a know it all by talking about ring psychology and all that shit. I remember when I first started watching indie wrestling the chain wrestling used to blow me away. I used to love to see the chain wrestling. Then, overnight, I just suddenly started to notice strange things. This was before I even knew there was such a thing called ring psychology. I was watching a CHIKARA event from 2004 and the match just felt weird. It had the chain wrestling I loved but suddenly I didn't love it anymore. They would chain wrestle and put the other guy in a sub ( a very painful sub btw) and then they'd just get up and start chain wrestling again. Now I knew the term selling at the time so I obviously noticed a lack of selling. The I started to question why one minute he was going for the arm, the other the leg, then the neck, then the arm.

But I still never really took it, you know. I still continued to watch indie wrestling. Things started to just feel weirder and weirder the more I watched though. There was this Petey Williams vs Kazarian (I believe) match that basically went 90 mph. Now before I used to watch all the X DIvision matches and sat in awe. On this occasion, however, I took the match off in 5 minutes. I just didn't like it.

Yet, I still continued to watch it. Thne one day, I downloaded a PWG 2005 show and that's when I think I had seen enough. The match was Richards (I'm noticing something here :hmm and some other guy. The thing is, this match was really good or should I say the first ten minutes were good. The guy spent a lot of time working Richards's arm and I really sank my teeth into the arm work. It was really suspension of belief and for a while I felt like if I were actually watching something real. Then, suddenly, Richards just ignores every thing. I don't think I need to explain what I mean by that. And it was definitely a head scratching moment. 

Again, I had no knowledge of the term ring psychology. So, basically, ring psychology was something I discovered on my own. No one told me about it. It just came automatically. If I'm watching a match where a guy spends 10 minutes working an arm, obviously, the illusion is broken the moment you start using that arm to pick him up and go into beast mode. Another thing, I started having a problem. I soon realized that more or less everyone on the indies had that same type of gimmick. Every match someone is known for their kicks. It's like, GET ORIGINAL. There's 1000 guys out there who are known for their stiff kicks what makes you so special. 

Bottom line is, everything just came together on their own. Well eventually I learned that there was a thing called ring psychology and I must say after watching Behind Closed Doors Jake Roberts, it really, really smartened me up on it. I know that I'm just the indy hater around here but I just felt it necessary to explain why so the next time I don't come off as hating indy wrestling for hating indy wrestling's sake. The thing is, to this day I'm still willing to give it a try. When ROH got their new TV deal earlier this year I tuned in for about 4 or 5 weeks. I even gave them yet another chance for 2 months in July and August but it's jsut not my cup of tea.


----------



## Obfuscation

I have to know which Chikara show from 2004 this was.


----------



## sharkboy22

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> I have to know which Chikara show from 2004 this was.


God, I really freaking can't remember. I downloaded a entire 2002-2004 pack. I can't even remember who was in the match tbh. Maybe it was Quackenbush. I think it was him and some spanish dude. I'm sorry but I really can't remember at all.


----------



## Nervosa

Really incredible insight, guys. Thank you all for contributing.

Richards and Elgin has to be the most divisive match this year. It has just weathered every side of every opinion. I'm really looking forward to rewatching it sometime this week.


----------



## MTheBehemoth

Yep, SuzukiVSTanahashi wins MOTY, imho.

And INB4 Okada/Tanahashi from WK7 wins MOTY2013


----------



## bigbuxxx

I would say Bucks vs SSB from Death to Metal, then Tanahashi vs Okada on 6/16 and then miles behind those in no order is Okada/Naito in March, Tana/MiSu on 10/8, Lesnar/Cena, 3-way ladder match in PWG, and a couple others I can't gather atm.


----------



## Kiz

downloaded yesterday:

cage of death 14 (lol but some decent matches on there so far. DEATH MACHINE vs cole is enjoyable. so is the opener and the 2 black guys. sabian also getting a match thrown out is hilarious.)

chikara under the hood, bola all 3 nights, pwg failure to communicate, and currently getting a DEATH MACHINE match pack off xwt:

1. AAW 06-22-12 Bound By Hate Vs Davey Richards 
2. AAW 08-24-12 Reign of Violence Vs BJ Whitmer 
3. AAW 09-21-12 Defining Moment with BJ Whimer Vs Davey Richards and Kyle O'Reilly 
4. AAW 10-26-12 War Is Coming Vs Michael Elgin 
5. CZW 03-10-12 Aerial Assault Vs Drake Younger 
6. CZW 06-09-12 Prelude To Violence Vs Adam Cole 
7. CZW 07-14-12 New Heights 60 Minute UV Iron Man Vs Drake Younger with the birth of OI4K 
8. CZW 09-08-12 Down With The Sickness with Jake Cris Vs Super Smash Bros. 
9. CZW 10-13-12 Cerebral with OI4K Vs Pepper Parks with Cherry Bomb 
10. CZW 11-10-12 Night of Infamy Confronts Adam Cole 
11. CZW 12-08-12 Cage of Death XIV Shattered Dreams Vs Adam Cole 
12. DGUSA 11-02-11 Fearless Vs Samuray Del Sol 
13. DGUSA 11-03-11 Uprising Vs El Generico (Best 2/3 falls) 
14. DGUSA 11-04-12 Freedom Fight Vs CIMA 
15. EVOLVE 8 Style Battle Final Vs AR Fox 
16. EVOLVE 8 Style Battle Round 1 Vs Brodie Lee 
17. EVOLVE 8 Style Battle Semi Final Vs Bobby Fish 
18. EVOLVE 9 07-26-11 Vs Finlay 
19. EVOLVE 10 Attacks Sabu 
20. EVOLVE 10 Vs Bobby Fish 
21. EVOLVE 11 04-13-12 Vs Finlay 
22. EVOLVE 12 05-11-12 Vs AR Fox 
23. EVOLVE 13 Vs El Generico 
24. EVOLVE 17 The DUF Vs The Scene and Sami Vs Masada 
25. EVOLVE 18 Vs Johnny Gargano 
26. FWE/HOH 10-06-12 Vs Rhino 
27. IWC 06-23-12 Super Indy XI Final Vs Michael Façade 
28. IWC 06-23-12 Super Indy XI Quarter Final Vs Ricky Shane Page 
29. IWC 06-23-12 Super Indy XI Semi Final Vs Chuck Taylor 
30. PWG 04-21-12 DDT4 Vs Kevin Steen (PWG Title) 
31. PWG 04-21-12 DDT4 with Roderick Strong Vs Willie Mack and El Generico 
32. PWG 09-01-12 BOLA Night 1 Vs Willie Mack 
33. PWG 09-02-12 BOLA Night 2 Vs Adam Cole 
34. PWG 09-02-12 BOLA Night 2 Vs TJ Perkins 
35. PWG 10-27-12 Failure To Communicate Vs Davey Richards 

as for kenny, go through cactus' list and anything seabs recommends as a rule of thumb. and cody too. a lot of enjoyable stuff, really getting into puro lately. bad intentions vs tenkoji is my favourite match this year (haven't seen many matches though.) i'll be prime and ready for the recs in 2013 tho


----------



## Obfuscation

sharkboy22 said:


> God, I really freaking can't remember. I downloaded a entire 2002-2004 pack. I can't even remember who was in the match tbh. Maybe it was Quackenbush. I think it was him and some spanish dude. I'm sorry but I really can't remember at all.


I figured it was a Quack match. vs a "spanish" dude meaning a luchadore. Probably El Oriental. Quack didn't work much singles matches that year. Plus, he was under a mask half of the year as Spyrazul too.



Nervosa said:


> Really incredible insight, guys. Thank you all for contributing.
> 
> Richards and Elgin has to be the most divisive match this year. It has just weathered every side of every opinion. I'm really looking forward to rewatching it sometime this week.


Indeed it is. All about what you look for in a match or happen to enjoy.

Glad you decided to chuck me in the list, kiz. You getting Chikara/Puro = ~!

All of that CALLIHAN goodness. Please appreciate the awesomeness of his match(es) vs Finlay.


----------



## ceeder

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> All of that CALLIHAN goodness. Please appreciate the awesomeness of his match(es) vs Finlay.


Oh no, you actually enjoy Sami?  Probably the first thing of yours I've read that I don't agree with.


----------



## Obfuscation

I've been a HUGE fan of his since he flew onto my radar in late 2007. What's with this backlash against him now?


----------



## KingCrash

I don't think it's a recent trend with the Callihan hate. His style rubs people the wrong way, his gimmick/personality you either love because he's a crazed madman or hate because it's so phony it even stretches wrestling's reality, and his promos are so grating you want to punch a baby in the face just so he stops talking.

CALLIHAN DEATH MACHINE! HA! HA! HA! (stares into the camera).

I will say that he has gotten much better when he's more the come-from-behind face and doesn't get into wacky crazy shtick then when he's a heel and sometimes kills matches.


----------



## Kiz

i've only seen a couple of matches but i really like the gimmick. it's legitimately entertaining. plus DEATH MACHINE sounds awesome.


----------



## Yeah1993

From the 2012 I've watched Callihan is the WOTY. I can understand finding him kind of annoying, but I really like him in kind of an 80s whacky character way and I don't think he looks phony. He's like the 2010s version of the Missing Link or something. He's a really fucking good worker no matter what. I can't see any argument against that.


----------



## Obfuscation

SANTA SNRUB said:


> i've only seen a couple of matches but i really like the gimmick. it's legitimately entertaining. plus DEATH MACHINE sounds awesome.





Yeah1993 said:


> From the 2012 I've watched Callihan is the WOTY. I can understand finding him kind of annoying, but I really like him in kind of an 80s whacky character way and I don't think he looks phony. He's like the 2010s version of the Missing Link or something. He's a really fucking good worker no matter what. I can't see any argument against that.


That. Minus the understanding of finding him annoying. I don't see it, but who knows what can irk people in the wrong way. That's a trait that differs among everyone.

If Callihan started jumping in place during a match then he'd really turn it up on the Missing Link factor.


----------



## Chismo

Downloading that DEATH MACHINE pack right now, although I already own the EVOLVE, CZW and PWG matches. Which makes me wonder... Why am I downloading it then?


----------



## Kenny

SANTA SNRUB said:


> downloaded yesterday:
> 
> cage of death 14 (lol but some decent matches on there so far. DEATH MACHINE vs cole is enjoyable. so is the opener and the 2 black guys. sabian also getting a match thrown out is hilarious.)
> 
> chikara under the hood, bola all 3 nights, pwg failure to communicate, and currently getting a DEATH MACHINE match pack off xwt:
> 
> 1. AAW 06-22-12 Bound By Hate Vs Davey Richards
> 2. AAW 08-24-12 Reign of Violence Vs BJ Whitmer
> 3. AAW 09-21-12 Defining Moment with BJ Whimer Vs Davey Richards and Kyle O'Reilly
> 4. AAW 10-26-12 War Is Coming Vs Michael Elgin
> 5. CZW 03-10-12 Aerial Assault Vs Drake Younger
> 6. CZW 06-09-12 Prelude To Violence Vs Adam Cole
> 7. CZW 07-14-12 New Heights 60 Minute UV Iron Man Vs Drake Younger with the birth of OI4K
> 8. CZW 09-08-12 Down With The Sickness with Jake Cris Vs Super Smash Bros.
> 9. CZW 10-13-12 Cerebral with OI4K Vs Pepper Parks with Cherry Bomb
> 10. CZW 11-10-12 Night of Infamy Confronts Adam Cole
> 11. CZW 12-08-12 Cage of Death XIV Shattered Dreams Vs Adam Cole
> 12. DGUSA 11-02-11 Fearless Vs Samuray Del Sol
> 13. DGUSA 11-03-11 Uprising Vs El Generico (Best 2/3 falls)
> 14. DGUSA 11-04-12 Freedom Fight Vs CIMA
> 15. EVOLVE 8 Style Battle Final Vs AR Fox
> 16. EVOLVE 8 Style Battle Round 1 Vs Brodie Lee
> 17. EVOLVE 8 Style Battle Semi Final Vs Bobby Fish
> 18. EVOLVE 9 07-26-11 Vs Finlay
> 19. EVOLVE 10 Attacks Sabu
> 20. EVOLVE 10 Vs Bobby Fish
> 21. EVOLVE 11 04-13-12 Vs Finlay
> 22. EVOLVE 12 05-11-12 Vs AR Fox
> 23. EVOLVE 13 Vs El Generico
> 24. EVOLVE 17 The DUF Vs The Scene and Sami Vs Masada
> 25. EVOLVE 18 Vs Johnny Gargano
> 26. FWE/HOH 10-06-12 Vs Rhino
> 27. IWC 06-23-12 Super Indy XI Final Vs Michael Façade
> 28. IWC 06-23-12 Super Indy XI Quarter Final Vs Ricky Shane Page
> 29. IWC 06-23-12 Super Indy XI Semi Final Vs Chuck Taylor
> 30. PWG 04-21-12 DDT4 Vs Kevin Steen (PWG Title)
> 31. PWG 04-21-12 DDT4 with Roderick Strong Vs Willie Mack and El Generico
> 32. PWG 09-01-12 BOLA Night 1 Vs Willie Mack
> 33. PWG 09-02-12 BOLA Night 2 Vs Adam Cole
> 34. PWG 09-02-12 BOLA Night 2 Vs TJ Perkins
> 35. PWG 10-27-12 Failure To Communicate Vs Davey Richards
> 
> as for kenny, go through cactus' list and anything seabs recommends as a rule of thumb. and cody too. a lot of enjoyable stuff, really getting into puro lately. bad intentions vs tenkoji is my favourite match this year (haven't seen many matches though.) i'll be prime and ready for the recs in 2013 tho


where'd you get all that and where are their lists?


----------



## Kiz

i got all that off xwt, they got free leech going on all their torrents right now. luckily my usage ticks over on the 28th and i get 200 gig to play with all over again.

uh cactus' is on the first page and the others just have their recs spread through the thread.


----------



## Kenny

going to xwt now :mark:

its not loading


----------



## Kenny

edit - dw


----------



## Kiz

twat :side:

also downloaded the evolve's with generico vs samuray del sol. heard they were alright.


----------



## Kenny

okay i've got 20GB to play with (savbing the other 100 for the next 2 weeks).. (200 a month). 

what should i DOWNLOAD


----------



## Kenny

link to me to the packs you got kiz

http://xtremewrestlingtorrents.net/browse.php?search=&cat=29&incldead=0

which ones should i get people


----------



## Kiz

idk what the rules are here so i won;t direct link them. just search the stuff by name and you'll be fine. the only pack i downloaded is the sami callihan match pack and it's 3.29 gig. all the others are just ppv's which come up when you search them by name.


----------



## Kenny

if i can find a KOTA pack, then i'll be made :mark:


----------



## Kenny

http://xtremewrestlingtorrents.net/details.php?id=79669

:mark:


----------



## Kiz

yep i was lining that up for when my internet ticked over.


----------



## Kenny

KOTA pack +fcw ambrose pack is next for me :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation

What's on the KOTA pack, Kenny?


----------



## Kiz

Big Mouth Loud - Kota Ibushi & Katsuyori Shibata vs Takeshi Morishima & Naomichi Marufuji 
Chikara - Kota Ibushi vs Player Uno 
DDT - Kota Ibushi & Kenny Omega vs Danshoku Dino & Yoshihiko 
DDT - Kota Ibushi vs Daisuke Sekimoto 
DDT - Kota Ibushi vs HARASHIMA 
DDT - Kota Ibushi vs Shuji Ishikawa 
DDT - Kota Ibushi vs Taiji ishimori 
Dragon Gate - Kota Ibushi, HARASHIMA & Antonio Honda vs Shingo Takagi, BxB Hulk & Cyber Kong 
El Dorado - Kota Ibushi vs KAGETORA 
Kensuke Office - Kota Ibushi & Kensuke Sasaki vs Jun Akiyama & Taiji ishimori 
NJPW - Kota Ibushi & KUSHIDA vs TAKA Michinoku & Taichi 
NJPW - Kota Ibushi & Takeshi Morishima vs Hiroshi Tanahashi & Koji Kanemoto 
NJPW - Kota Ibushi vs Davey Richards 
NJPW - Kota Ibushi vs Jushin Liger 
NJPW - Kota Ibushi vs Koji Kanemoto 
NJPW - Kota Ibushi vs KUSHIDA 
NJPW - Kota Ibushi vs Prince Devitt 
NJPW - Kota Ibushi vs Prince Devitt II 
NJPW - Kota Ibushi vs Ryusuke Taguchi 
NJPW - Kota Ibushi vs Ryusuke Taguchi II 
NJPW - Kota Ibushi vs The Great Sasuke 
NJPW - Kota Ibushi vs YAMATO 
NJPW - Kota Ibushi, Kenny Omega & Daisuke Sasaki vs Prince Devitt, Ryusuke Taguchi & KUSHIDA 
NOAH - Kota Ibushi & Atsushi Aoki vs KENTA & Taiji Ishimori 
NOAH - Kota Ibushi & Atsushi Aoki vs Ricky Marvin & Eddie Edwards 
NOAH - Kota Ibushi & Atsushi Aoki vs Yoshinobu Kanemaru & Kotaro Suzuki 
NOAH - Kota Ibushi & Katsuhiko Nakajima vs The Briscoes 
NOAH - Kota Ibushi & Naomichi Marufuji vs The Briscoes 
ROH - Kota Ibushi & Austin Aries vs The Briscoes 
ROH - Kota Ibushi vs Davey Richards 
ZERO-1 - Kota Ibushi & Crazy Boy vs Ikuto Hidaka & Minoru Fujita


----------



## Obfuscation

The K-Office match is LEGIT. One of my favorites from 2009.

Time to be better than the uploader by correcting a match. It was Ibushi vs Player DOS in Chikara. Not Uno. 

Score one more for the good guys.


----------



## Chismo

Meh, I decided not to download the Sami pack after all. I already own most of the matches, plus the video is made from iphones and tablets.


----------



## sharkboy22

Wait Callihan's getting hated on? Since when?

Um, I'm way out of touch with Callihan but if he's still doing shit like this then he's one hell of a promo guy and character. My only prob with him is his ridiculous hairstyle. Yeesh.


----------



## asdf0501

Yeah1993 said:


> From the 2012 I've watched Callihan is the WOTY. I can understand finding him kind of annoying, but I really like him in kind of an 80s whacky character way and I don't think he looks phony. He's like the 2010s version of the Missing Link or something. He's a really fucking good worker no matter what. I can't see any argument against that.


This.

The only person i will put above Callihan this year is ***** Casas


----------



## ywall2breakerj

Nervosa said:


> Thanks guys, this gave me a lot to chew on. I think I understand what you guys are saying a lot more.
> 
> So when analyzing matches with very little control, what makes any one better than another? Quality of spots, or flow, or what, exactly? You mentioned execution, which makes sense, but again I go back to Richards/Elgin which didnt seem to have execution problems but was universally panned. I honestly don't think I know how to analyze matches without control other than thinking to myself 'that was cool.' I was just curious how you guys do that.


Elgin/Davey was just terribly structured, imo. It was somewhat carried by a hot crowd and Nigel but it was pretty much the usual ROH 2012 style spotfest with them losing direction several times in the match. You could just put more emphasis on the transitions between those control segments as well. I had Ladder War IV at *** with the major reason being their lazy transitioning from Steen controling the match to Generico doing so and vice versa. In Dean Ambrose matches he'll come up with new, refreshing ways to play up to wrestling cliches and that'll certainly affect my enjoyment. SPOTS can be a major factor but so can something like matwork.....if you're watching a 1973 Billy Robison match. Selling, drama, crowd reaction, charachter work, if it matters to the quality of your enjoyment of a wrestling match it's eligible for crediting.




Now, onto watching Tanaka vs Ishii. Hoping for at least 1 table spot


----------



## Obfuscation

Sami Callihan currently has the best hair in the world of wrestling. Well, only second to Shinsuke Nakamura's undercut SWAG.

Oh and to be more thread appropriate, Sami Callihan's 2012 is probably the best of his entire career. He's what El Generico was last year, imo. _(not to say Generico isn't up to par himself)_


----------



## ywall2breakerj

Tanaka-Ishii may not have had table spots, but it sure as hell was a great brawl. Going with ****** as well.


----------



## smitlick

I've been hating Callihan for a few years and still find him repulsive... What all of you seem to hate about good Ol DR, i hate about Callihan and more. Hes just so fucking fake.


----------



## Concrete

smitlick said:


> I've been hating Callihan for a few years and still find him repulsive... What all of you seem to hate about good Ol DR, i hate about Callihan and more. Hes just so fucking fake.


Explain to me this fake-ness. Everyone who hates Sami Callihan makes some remark like this but I don't get it. I'm not saying I think you're wrong but I literally don't understand what it means in this context. Is it his character, his style, what?


----------



## Groovemachine

If anyone's giving out praise to haircuts, can we at least take a moment for Adam Cole's gorgeous locks. 




Thank you.


----------



## KingCrash

enlightenedone9 said:


> Explain to me this fake-ness. Everyone who hates Sami Callihan makes some remark like this but I don't get it. I'm not saying I think you're wrong but I literally don't understand what it means in this context. Is it his character, his style, what?


I think it's a combination of all those. For me it's kind of like something that takes you out of a movie and reminds you it's fake and takes me out of the match. Like with El Generico or RD Evans. I know the dudes aren't their gimmicks but when they come out they're so good you fall in line and go with the match. With Callihan the twitches, ticks and whole act seems so forced that you really don't believe it.




Groovemachine said:


> If anyone's giving out praise to haircuts, can we at least take a moment for Adam Cole's gorgeous locks.
> 
> Thank you.


Let's just appreciate Cole period.


----------



## Kenny

when are the weekly shows/ppv's on for ROH/etc


----------



## smitlick

enlightenedone9 said:


> Explain to me this fake-ness. Everyone who hates Sami Callihan makes some remark like this but I don't get it. I'm not saying I think you're wrong but I literally don't understand what it means in this context. Is it his character, his style, what?


Have you seen the Wrestleholics Documentary? To me that fully encapsulates my hate for him. Everything he does comes across as forced and fake and unnatural. He legitimately looks retarded doing it.


----------



## sharkboy22

Adam Cole has that look! Not to mention he's a hell of a promo guy. It'd be a shame if WWE doesn't pick up within the next 2-3 years.


----------



## Obfuscation

KingCrash said:


> I think it's a combination of all those. For me it's kind of like something that takes you out of a movie and reminds you it's fake and takes me out of the match. Like with El Generico or RD Evans. I know the dudes aren't their gimmicks but when they come out they're so good you fall in line and go with the match. With Callihan the twitches, ticks and whole act seems so forced that you really don't believe it.


Crazy ironic how you mentioned those three. They're currently my 3 favorite gimmicks _(Peck/Stranger included)_ currently on the Indie scene. I know you're was claiming otherwise with Sami, but I couldn't help but find it worth noting.

I don't see the forced stuff. Not a damn bit. Like I said, it's the EXACT opposite for me.


----------



## Corey

After rewatching Extreme Rules...

*World Heavyweight Championship - 2 out of 3 Falls
*Sheamus (c) vs. Daniel Bryan

For a pretty damn long time, THIS was actually my MOTY. Absolutely adored it watching it live, and still do, but it's not _as_ good this time around. First fall was a great back and forths match on its own. Incredible how well it was conveyed that Bryan could basically run circles around Sheamus and not even break a sweat while Sheamus was huffin and puffin 5 minutes in. Brilliant gameplan for Bryan to attack the arm leading into the 2nd fall. Don't really have a problem with Sheamus "passing out" because it lets the champ look strong & also showed how relentless Bryan could be. 3rd fall was mark out time. Great build from start to finish and I loved the stiffness. Great selling from Sheamus too as he turned his back for every kick he took to protect his left arm. My only real gripe was the finish that came off a bit flat for all the work they'd put in. Still an awesome match that was honestly a groundbreaker in my eyes because both guys came out looking like they truly belonged in a main event spot. Sheamus really held his own (first time I saw him use the clover leaf) and Bryan showed maybe 60% of what he's truly capable of. Thumbs up for me. *****

WWE Championship - Chicago Street Fight
*CM Punk (c) vs. Chris Jericho

Have this match in any other city in the country and it won't feel as special, for obvious reasons. They had it in Chicago, so the crowd added quite a bit to this. Sure the match was a little long & had a few awkward moments (some were covered up nicely though), but I loved so many little things throughout. Jericho was great in this. Loved how he used the ref a couple times, especially for the Ric Flair eye poke, & I couldn't help but laugh every time I heard him say "Are you drunk? You piece of TRASH!" :lol Loved how Punk went nuts after Jericho tried to attack his sister, nice touch using the top of the announce table as an actual table too. FIRE EXTINGUISHER! The last few minutes is really where it's at though. So much creativity. The Anaconda Vice spot where Jericho teases the kendo stick and then comes back was INCREDIBLY well done. Really believable near finish there. Sudden codebreaker on the chair was also great. Just a pretty awesome match with a great atmosphere. Dig it. *****

Extreme Rules Match
*John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST. This match got the exact same reaction out of me as it did the first time. We've all seen this by now. You either love it or hate it. I fucking love it. The realest, craziest, most brutal & unpredictable thing I'll ever see in a wrestling ring. Lesnar set out to legitimize wrestling & he did it. The finish is totally fine too. Did you see that damn chain shot, people? Absolute insanity & I'm not even gonna go any deeper into it, cause you've all heard it before from the people who adore it. ***** 1/2*


----------



## Obfuscation

Pretty spot on to where I have them at. Only a small 1/4* bump up for the 2/3 Falls & Cena/Brock for me.

What's your WWE MOTY?


----------



## Chismo

smitlick said:


> Have you seen the Wrestleholics Documentary? To me that fully encapsulates my hate for him. Everything he does comes across as forced and fake and unnatural. He legitimately looks retarded doing it.


Sorry, but I don't give a shit about wrestlers "having fun" and other things they do outside of ring and filming it, and I certainly won't judge them based on that. Well, unless it's Misawa and Vader in karaoke contests.


----------



## Bubz

I've posted my thoughts on Callihan so many times, BUT, I will say that PWG's Failure To Communicate made him grow on me slightly. He had a damn good match with Davey imo, and it was down to him completely. The match had structure and even when Davey did his worst possible shit ever, Callihan kept his eye on the ball and the story of the match, whereas Davey started to blow it off completely at points (he did, to his credit, stick to it for the majority). I've really disliked pretty much all of his matches in PWG up until that point, It's the same shit over and over for me. Can't stand his mannerisms, the fact that he thinks sticking his middle finger up all the time is 'cool', spit, drooling like a retard, bicycle kick x 67, superkick to leg followed by no legwork etc. But in the Davey match he was clear;y the reason it was 'good' despite Davey trying his best to fuck it up towards the end. He was also GOLD on commentary with Excalibur.


----------



## Kenny

so ive downloaded a callahan pack, a fcw ambrose back, and now im almost finished downloading a kota pack 

:mark:


----------



## Obfuscation

You sir have got some wildly INCREDIBLE stuff to watch. 

(Y)


----------



## Kenny

i'm pretty excited sir. also...when are weekly shows and such for promotions? i'd like to keep up


----------



## Obfuscation

ROH on Sinclair is on Thursdays, but I just d/l them or watch via youtube.

Puro is almost always uploaded on the streaming sites like youtube/dailymotion. So that's the easiest place to watch when they get released. A few here and there are a bit hard to come by. This meaning mostly New Japan, of course.

TNA Impact is still on Thursdays.

You know WWE I'm sure but I'll still update for the hell of it: RAW - Mondays, NXT_(via online)_ - Wednesdays, Main Event - Wednesdays, Superstars_(via online)_ - Thursdays, Smackdown - Fridays, Saturday Morning Slam - Saturdays.

FCW, idk. Another one to see via downloading.


----------



## Scavo

****** for Eddie Edwards vs. Michel Elgin from PWG Failure To Communicate, and ****** for Austin Aries vs. Alex Shelley from TNA AAO, both on re-watches.


----------



## seabs

*MOTYC List as a couple of people were asking*


> Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW 04.03.2012
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW 08.10.2012
> Super Smash Brothers vs Young Bucks vs Future Shock - Ladder Match - PWG World Tag Team Championships - PWG Threemendous 3
> Yuji Hino vs Kota Ibushi - KO-D Openweight Championship - DDT 24.06.2012
> Yuji Nagata vs Suwama - AJPW 05.05.2012
> ACH vs AR Fox - 30 Minute Ironman Match - AIW Straight Outta Compton
> Super Smash Brothers vs Young Bucks - No DQ - PWG Death To All But Metal
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW 16.06.2012
> 
> 
> Kenny Omega vs Hiroshi Yamato - AJPW World Jr. Heavyweight Championship - AJPW 03.01.2012
> Suwama vs Daisuke Sekimoto - AJPW 02.01.2012
> Big Van Walter, Daisuke Sekimoto, 2-Face & Kim Ray vs Axeman, Yoshihito Sasaki, Karsten Beck & Robert Dreissker - 8 Man Elimination Tag - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 3
> Sami Callihan vs El Generico - EVOLVE 13
> Hirooki Goto vs Tomohiro Ishii - NJPW 20.05.2012
> Daisuke Sekimoto, Yuji Okabayashi & Kazuki Hashimoto vs Akebono, Ryuto Hama & Yasufumi Nakanoue - BJW 02.02.2012
> Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito - NJPW 03.08.2012
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI
> Yuji Nagata & Wataru Inoue vs Masayuki Kono & Minoru - AJPW 03.02.2012
> Prince Devitt vs PAC - NJPW 06.06.2012
> Yoshihito Sasaki vs Daisuke Sekimoto - BJW 26.03.2012
> John Cena vs Brock Lesnar - Extreme Rules Match - Extreme Rules 2012
> Super Smash Brothers vs Marko Estrada & Michael Style - Street Fight - NSPW Golden Opportunity IV 26.05.2012
> CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan - WWE Championship - Over The Limit 2012
> Jushin Liger & Tiger Mask IV vs TAKA Michinoku & Taichi - IWGP Jr. Heavyweight Championships - NJPW 16.06.2012
> Big Van Walter vs Daisuke Sekimoto - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 2
> Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - 2/3 Falls - World Heavyweight Championship - Extreme Rules 2012
> William Regal vs Dean Ambrose - FCW 15.07.2012
> Luke Gallows vs Charlie Dreamer - OSF 07.04.2012
> 
> Jerry Lawler, Derrick King & Frankie Tucker vs Pokerface & LA Hustlers - MCW 03.03.2012
> Max Angelus vs Nick Riley vs Robbie X - SWE 4everevolution
> Finlay vs Johnny Kidd - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 3
> Dean Allmark vs Nathan Cruz - ASW:UK 24.03.2012
> Bobby Roode vs AJ Styles - TNA World Championship - TNA iMPACT 24.05.2012
> Akira Tozawa vs El Ligero - PCW Guild Wars
> Shinjiro Otani & Daichi Hashimoto vs Takeshi Morishima & Katsuhiko Nakajima - NOAH 29.04.2012
> Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin - ROH World Championship - ROH Showdown In The Sun Night 2
> El Generico vs Ricochet - PWG Death To All But Metal
> Kevin Steen vs Brian Cage-Taylor - PWG Death To All But Metal
> Shinsuke Nakamura & Toru Yano vs Go Shiozaki & Naomichi Marufuji - NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI
> AJ Styles & Kurt Angle vs Daniels & Kazarian - TNA Slammiversary X
> Finlay vs Martin Kirby - SWE 4everevolution
> Damien Wayne vs Chris Escobar - VCW 02.06.2012
> Dean Allmark & James Mason vs Rampage Brown & Robbie Dynamite - ASW:UK 17.03.2012
> Marty Scurll vs Sami Callihan - IPW:UK Revolution 2012
> Ricky Marvin vs Tommy End - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 2
> Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yuji Okabayashi - BJW 26.02.2012
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada - NJPW 12.02.2012
> Austin Aries vs Alex Shelley - TNA Against All Odds 2012
> Damian Steele & Giovanni vs Pee Wee & Johnny Jack Spade - NSPW Kickoff 2012
> Toru Yano vs Minoru Suzuki - NJPW 05.08.2012





> *****
> 
> 
> ****3/4
> 
> 
> ****1/2
> Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW 04.03.2012
> Yuji Nagata vs Suwama - AJPW 05.05.2012
> Yuji Hino vs Kota Ibushi - KO-D Openweight Championship - DDT 24.06.2012
> Super Smash Brothers vs Young Bucks - No DQ - PWG Death To All But Metal
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW 16.06.2012
> Super Smash Brothers vs Young Bucks vs Future Shock - Ladder Match - PWG World Tag Team Championships - PWG Threemendous 3
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW 08.10.2012
> ACH vs AR Fox - 30 Minute Ironman Match - AIW Straight Outta Compton
> 
> ****1/4
> Shinsuke Nakamura & Toru Yano vs Go Shiozaki & Naomichi Marufuji - NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI
> Suwama vs Daisuke Sekimoto - AJPW 02.01.2012
> Jun Akiyama & Kenta Kobashi vs Kensuke Sasaki & Mitsuhiro Kitayima - Diamond Ring 11.02.2012
> Kenny Omega vs Hiroshi Yamato - AJPW World Jr. Heavyweight Championship - AJPW 03.01.2012
> Yuji Nagata & Wataru Inoue vs Masayuki Kono & Minoru - AJPW 03.02.2012
> Daisuke Sekimoto, Yuji Okabayashi & Kazuki Hashimoto vs Akebono, Ryuto Hama & Yasufumi Nakanoue - BJW 02.02.2012
> Ricky Marvin vs Tommy End - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 2
> Big Van Walter vs Daisuke Sekimoto - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 2
> Finlay vs Johnny Kidd - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 3
> Big Van Walter, Daisuke Sekimoto, 2-Face & Kim Ray vs Axeman, Yoshihito Sasaki, Karsten Beck & Robert Dreissker - 8 Man Elimination Tag - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 3
> Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin - ROH World Championship - ROH Showdown In The Sun Night 2
> Yoshihito Sasaki vs Daisuke Sekimoto - BJW 26.03.2012
> Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - 2/3 Falls - World Heavyweight Championship - Extreme Rules 2012
> John Cena vs Brock Lesnar - Extreme Rules Match - Extreme Rules 2012
> Shinjiro Otani & Daichi Hashimoto vs Takeshi Morishima & Katsuhiko Nakajima - NOAH 29.04.2012
> Dean Allmark & James Mason vs Rampage Brown & Robbie Dynamite - ASW:UK 17.03.2012
> Dean Allmark vs Nathan Cruz - ASW:UK 24.03.2012
> Sami Callihan vs El Generico - EVOLVE 13
> CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan - WWE Championship - Over The Limit 2012
> Prince Devitt vs PAC - NJPW 06.06.2012
> Dean Allmark vs Johnny Storm - ASW:UK 01.06.2012
> Max Angelus vs Nick Riley vs Robbie X - SWE 4everevolution
> Hirooki Goto vs Tomohiro Ishii - NJPW 20.05.2012
> Kevin Steen vs Brian Cage-Taylor - PWG Death To All But Metal
> El Generico vs Ricochet - PWG Death To All But Metal
> William Regal vs Dean Ambrose - FCW 15.07.2012
> Jushin Liger & Tiger Mask IV vs TAKA Michinoku & Taichi - IWGP Jr. Heavyweight Championships - NJPW 16.06.2012
> Super Smash Brothers vs Marko Estrada & Michael Style - Street Fight - NSPW Golden Opportunity IV 26.05.2012
> Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito - NJPW 03.08.2012
> Marty Scurll vs Sami Callihan - IPW:UK Revolution 2012
> Akira Tozawa vs El Ligero - PCW Guild Wars
> 
> ****
> Bad Intentions vs Satoshi Kojima & Hiroyoshi Tenzan - IWGP Heavyweight Tag Team Championships - NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI
> Kohei Sato vs Daisuke Sekimoto - ZERO-1 World Heavyweight Championship - ZERO-1 01.01.2012
> Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs Akebono & Ryuto Hama - BJW 02.01.2012
> Daisuke Sekimoto & Yuji Okabayashi vs Akebono & Ryuto Hama - All Asia Tag Team Championships - AJPW 03.01.2012
> SHINGO, YAMATO, Jimmy Susumu, Jimmy KAGETORA & Dragon Kid vs CIMA, Akira Tozawa, BxB Hulk, Genki Horiguchi & Ryo Saito - Dragon Gate 19.01.2012
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada - NJPW 12.02.2012
> Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yuji Okabayashi - BJW 26.02.2012
> Jerry Lawler, Derrick King & Frankie Tucker vs Pokerface & LA Hustlers - MCW 03.03.2012
> Daisuke Sekimoto & Freddy Stahl vs Big Van Walter & Robert Dreissker - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 1
> CM Punk vs Chris Jericho - WWE Championship - WrestleMania 28
> CM Punk vs Chris Jericho - Chicago Street Fight - WWE Championship - Extreme Rules 2012
> Shinjiro Otani vs Daichi Hashimoto - ZERO-1 25.03.2012
> Austin Aries vs Alex Shelley - TNA Against All Odds 2012
> Go Shiozaki & Tamon Honda vs Kensuke Sasaki & Kento Miyahara - NOAH 29.04.2012
> Yuji Nagata vs Daisuke Sekimoto - AJPW 29.04.2012
> Yuji Okabayashi vs Manabu Soya - AJPW 04.05.2012
> Vordell Walker vs Jon Davis - PWX 28.04.2012
> Prince Devitt vs Low Ki - IWGP Jr. Heavyweight Championship - NJPW 03.05.2012
> Togi Makabe & Yuji Nagata vs Minoru Suzuki & Yoshihiro Takayama - NJPW 03.05.2012
> Bobby Roode vs AJ Styles - TNA World Championship - TNA iMPACT 24.05.2012
> Low Ki vs Brian Kendrick - NJPW 06.06.2012
> AJ Styles & Kurt Angle vs Daniels & Kazarian - TNA Slammiversary X
> James Mason vs Zebra Kid - ASW:UK 01.06.2012
> Finlay vs Danny Boy Collins - ASW:UK 01.06.2012
> Sheamus vs Dolph Ziggler - World Heavyweight Championship - No Way Out 2012
> Luke Gallows vs Charlie Dreamer - OSF 07.04.2012
> Daisuke Sekimoto & Yuji Okabayashi vs Yoshihito Sasaki & Shinya Ishikawa - BJW 25.05.2012
> Damien Wayne vs Chris Escobar - VCW 02.06.2012
> Finlay vs Martin Kirby - SWE 4everevolution
> Kevin Steen vs Davey Richards - ROH World Championship - ROH HOSTAGE CRISIS 2012
> Yoshihito Sasaki vs Yuji Okabayashi - BJW 21.06.2012
> El Generico vs Sara Del Rey - Chikara Hot Off The Griddle
> AJ Styles vs Christopher Daniels - Last Man Standing - TNA Destination X 2012
> Jun Akiyama, Go Shiozaki & Atsushi Aoki vs Suwama, Kaz Hayashi & Shuji Kondo - NOAH 03.06.2012
> Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan - Street Fight - Raw 30.08.2012
> Kota Ibushi, Kenny Omega & Daisuke Sasaki vs Prince Devitt, KUSHIDA & BUSHI - NJPW 16.06.2012
> Toru Yano & Takashi Iizuka vs Satoshi Kojima & Hiroyoshi Tenzan - IWGP Tag Team Championships - NJPW 16.06.2012
> Shinsuke Nakamura & Masato Tanaka vs Tetsuya Naito & Hirooki Goto - NJPW 16.06.2012
> John Cena vs Alberto Del Rio - Falls Count Anywhere - Raw 03.09.2012
> Kevin Steen vs Willie Mack - PWG World Championship - PWG Threemendous 3
> CM Punk vs John Cena - WWE Championship - Night Of Champions 2012
> Damian Steele & Giovanni vs Pee Wee & Johnny Jack Spade - NSPW Kickoff 2012
> Big Van Walter vs Zack Sabre Jr. - wXw Live In Hamburg
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Toru Yano - NJPW 07.08.2012
> Kazuchika Okada vs Karl Anderson - NJPW 08.10.2012
> TAKA Michinoku vs MENs Teioh - K-DOJO 08.07.2012
> Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yuji Hino - K-DOJO 08.07.2012
> HARASHIMA vs Shuji Ishikawa - DDT 22.07.2012
> Project Ego vs The Thrillers - IPW:UK No Escape 2012
> Mark Andrews vs Wild Boar - Progress Chapter 2
> London Riots vs Velocity Vipers - Progress Chapter 2
> Karl Anderson vs Shelton Benjamin - NJPW 05.08.2012
> Toru Yano vs Minoru Suzuki - NJPW 05.08.2012
> Kazuchika Okada vs Shinsuke Nakamura - NJPW 05.08.2012
> Kris Travis vs Dave Mastiff - PCW Guild Wars
> 
> Misc.
> Daniel Bryan vs Big Show - No DQ Match - World Heavyweight Championship - Smackdown 13.01.2012
> PAC vs Rich Swann vs Brodie Lee vs Sami Callihan - 2CW 21.01.2012
> Bad Intentions & KUSHIDA vs Satoshi Kojima, Hiroyoshi Tenzan & Jushin Liger - NJPW 29.01.2012
> Juventud Guerrera vs Zema Ion - X Project 19.02.2012
> Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk - Smackdown 21.02.2012
> Zack Sabre Jr. vs Yoshihito Sasaki - wXw 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2012 Day 2
> Daisuke Sekimoto & Kazuki Hashimoto vs Kohei Sato & Daichi Hashimoto - ZERO-1 24.04.2012
> Takao Omori, Manabu Soya & Masanobu Fuchi vs Seiya Sanada, KAI & Hiroshi Yamato - AJPW 07.05.2011
> Daisuke Sekimoto, Yuji Okabayashi & Kazuki Hashimoto vs Kaz Hayashi, Shuji Kondo & Ryuto Hama - AJPW 07.05.2011
> Steve Corino vs Sam Shaw - PWX 28.01.2012
> Rowdy Ricky Knight & Jimmy Ocean vs Robbie Brookside & Frankie Sloan - ASW:UK 01.06.2012


*I'm gonna post a somewhat comprehensive match guide for the year after exams/assignments are out of the way in a couple of weeks for those not a big fan of the current ROH style or just want more varied stuff to check out.*


----------



## Corey

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Pretty spot on to where I have them at. Only a small 1/4* bump up for the 2/3 Falls & Cena/Brock for me.
> 
> What's your WWE MOTY?


It's definitely Cena/Brock, but I've yet to see Punk/Bryan from OTL and Shield/Hell NoBack.


----------



## Kiz

Lord Santa Claus IV. said:


> *MOTYC List as a couple of people were asking*
> 
> 
> *I'm gonna post a somewhat comprehensive match guide for the year after exams/assignments are out of the way in a couple of weeks for those not a big fan of the current ROH style or just want more varied stuff to check out.*


fucking came buckets.


----------



## geraldinhio

Not my complete list, missing a lot WWE and PWG matches. Just a random word document I came across. Think it's the matches I reviewed in this thread.

Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada - IWGP Heavyweight Championship - NJPW 16.06.2012 ****3/4
John Cena vs Brock Lesnar WWE Extreme Rules 2012. ****3/4 after a rewatch

Adam Cole vs Kyle O' Reilly ROH Best In The World 2012. ****1/2+
PWG Threemendous III - Young Bucks vs. Super Smash Bros vs. Future Shock. ****1/2+

Bully Ray vs Austin Aries sacrifice.****1/2
Austin Aries vs Bobby Roode Destination X ****1/2


Daisuke Sekimoto vs Suwama AJPW; 2012/01/02 ****1/4+ 
The Shield vs Ryback and Team Hell No- WWE TLC 2012 ****1/4_+
Del rey vs Generico Chikara Hot Off The Griddle ****1/4
Punk vs Henry RAW ****1/4
Micheal Elgin vs Davey Richards ROH SITS night 2-****1/4
Bobby Roode vs James Storm TNA BFG ****1/4 +


kofi Kingston vs Dolph Ziggler. ****
PAC vs Rich Swann vs Brodie Lee vs Sami Callihan - 2CW 21.01.2012 ****
HHH vs Undertaker WM28 **** after a rewatch
Punk vs Jericho-****+
Harashima & El Generico vs Kenny Omega & KUDO -DDT- Into The Fight 2012 ****
El Generico vs Kota Ibushi DDT MAX BUMP 04.05.2012 ****+
AJ Styles and Kurt angle vs Christopher Daniels and Kazarian Slammiversary.****+

Austin Aries vs. Alex Shelley - TNA Against All Odds - ***3/4 

What a random assortment of matches. Didn't know I watched that much TNA either.


----------



## Scavo

Also, *****1/4* for The Young Bucks vs. Kenny Omega & El Generico from PWG FTC, to nobody's surprise. Amazing action.


----------



## geraldinhio

Scavo said:


> Also, *****1/4* for The Young Bucks vs. Kenny Omega & El Generico from PWG FTC, to nobody's surprise. Amazing action.


Gonna watch this right now. There's a link on dailymotion if anyone is interested.

EDIT- Well that was just awesome fun. Now I want either Kenny/Generico vs SSB or Kenny/Generico vs Future Shock and I can die a happy man. Anyway ****1/4 sounds about right. Ending was sick.

Came across the SSB/Young Bucks/Future Shock ladder match on Dailymotion too, think it deserves a rewatch.


----------



## blink_41sum_182

Just gonna do **** 1/2 +

Matches of the year 2012:

1. PWG Death to All but Metal - Young Bucks vs Super Smash Bros - **** 3/4
2. PWG Threemendous III - Young Bucks vs Super Smash Bros vs Future Shock - **** 3/4
3. ROH Showdown in the Sun - Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin - **** 1/2

Not in any order:

4. Kota Ibushi vs Kenny Omega 8-18-12 - **** 1/2
5. ROH Best in the World: Hostage Crisis - Kevin Steen vs Davey Richards - **** 1/2
6. Dragon Gate - Fearless - Johnny Gargano (c) vs. Akira Tozawa vs. AR Fox vs. Ricochet - **** 1/2
7. TNA Slammiversary - Angle and Styles vs Kaz and Daniels - **** 1/2 
8. PWG Failure to Communicate - Kevin Steen vs. Michael Elgin vs. Ricochet - **** 1/2

Shows of the year:

1. Wrestlemania 28
2. PWG DDT4 2012


----------



## smitlick

My List is no where near complete or anything but here it is

Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki - New Japan 8/10/12 - ****3/4
Big Van Walter vs Daisuke Sekimoto - wXw 16 Carat Gold 2012 Day 2 - ****1/2
Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk - WWE Over The Limit 2012 - ****1/2
Michael Elgin vs Davey Richards - ROH Showdown In The Sun Night 2 - ****1/2
Kevin Steen vs El Generico - ROH Showdown In The Sun Night 1 - ****1/4
Akira Tozawa, BxB Hulk & Low Ki vs Masaaki Mochizuki, PAC & Ricochet - DGUSA Mercury Rising 2012 - ****1/4
Michael Elgin vs Silas Young - AAW Point of No Return - ****1/4
Eddie Kingston vs Sara Del Rey - Chikara The Great Escape - ****1/4
Adam Cole vs Kyle O'Reilly - ROH Best In The World 2012 - ****
Hirooki Goto vs Shinsuke Nakamura - New Japan 8/10/12 - ****
Ronin vs Super Smash Brothers - Evolve 10 - ****
Danny Havoc vs Drake Younger - CZW Tournament of Death 11 - ****
Eddie Kingston vs Jigsaw - Chikara Aniversario The Ogg and I - ****
Super Smash Brothers vs Young Bucks - PWG Death To All But Metal - ****
Future Shock vs The Super Smash Brothers - PWG DDT4 2012 - ****
AR Fox/CIMA vs El Generico/Samuray Del Sol - DGUSA Untouchable 2012 - ****
El Generico vs Sami Callihan - Evolve 13 - ****
Johnny Gargano vs Masato Yoshino - DGUSA Mercury Rising 2012 - ****
Johnny Gargano vs Chuck Taylor - DGUSA Enter The Dragon 2012 - ****
Kevin Steen vs Davey Richards - ROH Border Wars - ****
Akira Tozawa vs PAC - DGUSA Open The Golden Gate - ****
The Briscoe Brothers vs Kyle O'Reilly & Davey Richards - ROH Rise and Prove - ****
Young Bucks vs Great Sasuke/El Generico - PWS WrestleReunion 28/1 - ****
Davey Richards vs Harry Smith - PWS WrestleReunion 28/1 - ****
Zack Sabre Jr vs Jon Ryan - wXw 16 Carat Gold 2012 Day 1 - ****
Super Dragon, Kevin Steen & Akira Tozawa vs El Generico, Masato Yoshino & PAC - PWG KurtRussellReunion 3 - ****
Big Van Walter/Robert Dreissker vs Daisuke Sekimoto/Freddy Stahl - wXw 16 Carat Gold 2012 Day 1 - ****
Masato Yoshino & Ricochet vs Johnny Gargano & Chuck Taylor - DGUSA Open The Ultimate Gate 2012 - ****
Zack Sabre Jr vs Yoshihito Sasaki - wXw 16 Carat Gold 2012 Day 2 - ****
Johnny Kidd vs Finlay - wXw 16 Carat Gold 2012 Day 3 - ****
Masaaki Mochizuki vs Akira Tozawa - DGUSA Open The Ultimate Gate 2012 - ****
Axeman/Dreissker/Sasaki/Beck vs Walter/Sekimoto/2Face/Ray - wXw 16 Carat Gold 2012 Day 3 - ****
The LDRS of the New School vs Emil Sitoci & Ricky Marvin - wXw 16 Carat Gold 2012 Day 3 - ****
ACH vs Mr Touchdown - Chikara The Ring of Wax - ***3/4-****


----------



## Kenny

cheers for the list seabs


----------



## Yeah1993

Yeah, great list. The idea that I will watch all of that is unlikely, but I'll keep it around.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

*Sami Callihan vs Dave Mastiff, SWE (2/24/12)*

Really fun David vs Goliath match and definitely an example that Sami can work a more basic and 'classic' match alongside his more violent matches. Honestly couldn't see many people disliking this as both guys really bring everything you want from this style of match. Mastiff is a great fat man wrestler with some really reckless and violent looking offence and he's a great base for an underdog to work off and Sami is the sort of guy who isn't afraid to take some really disgusting and hard bumps to get over the offence of his opponent. Loved the build throughout with Sami twice paying dearly for trying to lift the bigger Mastiff, especially loved how the fireman's carry attempt turned into what appeared to be a rib-breaking fall crushing Sami. I could see some people finding the small sequence in the middle of the match where Sami taunts Mastiff to bring it irritating, but I found it appropriate to get over his resiliency and show a bit of passion (bare in mind this is someone who found the BJW Sasaki match to be hurt by some of Sami's verbal antics, so its definitely not a case of me trying to defend everything he does).

The finishing run is really well worked. Sami looks a spent force trying to lift himself back into the match and I loved him brushing off a strike to hit the bodyslam before collapsing in the corner to sell the effort it took to hit the move. I also loved his varied approaches in taking Mastiff down, such as resorting to stomping his toes alongside his strikes when he failed earlier by going toe to toe with Mastiff. Superkick into the leg to setup a second attempt at the sunset flip powerbomb was a nice combo to sell the size of Mastiff and the resulting bump was hideous and produced a truly believeable nearfall. Actual finish itself was also exceptionally timed and was a satisfying conclusion. Vivalabrave would like this.


*Precious vs Brian Christopher, Steel Cage Match, SLAMMERS (6/21/12)*

Man, this is just everything I love about pro wrestling and Memphis especially. Christopher has never really wowed me in all honesty and this match in truth is all about the monumental discovery that is Precious. He's just a brilliant Pantomine Villain and a great antagonist to rile the crowd up with his exotic antics and prancing around the ring. The bit where he cockily does a 69 position pin on Christopher just sealed how quirky and surreal yet brilliant the gimmick is. Also helps that he's quite the vicious animal when he wants to be and can certainly hold his own in a cage match. He bumps comically for all of Christopher's offence and finds the balance between acceptable overselling to fit the gimmick just fine. His cage bumps were also incredible, getting great height and having no fear in launching himself into each and every bump. Loved all his cheating antics including the powder to gain a momentary advantage, and the final battle on top of the Cage was just the sort of spot I should hate but worked in the context of the match. Watch for the wonders of Precious and a couple of nice Christoper bumps. Pretty sure I've wrote about it as well as Seabs but people should watch the Lawler/Christopher vs Derrick King/Precious tag from 6/2 this year. Incredible spectacle and any Memphis fan will love it. Vivalabrave will almost certainly love it.


*James Mason vs Robbie Dynamite, (9/7/12)*

Really fun showcase match for James Mason fans and the British style of wrestling. The benchmark for quality of Mason's work will always be the stellar Allmark feud from 2011, but this is a really nice example of his work and progresses from a clean sporting competition into a grittier fight with Dynamite becoming more aggressive and violent once Mason begins to seize the advantage in the hold trading. Couple of really swank reversals and counters from Mason, whose agility continues to amaze me on a match by match basis and the finish is a perfect example of that. Not necessarily as violent or creative as say a Finlay match, but it still has a nuanced charm about it and I couldn't see fans of the British style or indeed Mason or Dynamite disliking this.


----------



## seabs

*:yes Awesome.

I've got them Precious Memphis matches on my USB to watch. I was gonna watch them a few days ago but didn't get time. Sami/Mastiff is on youtube btw people so you've got no excuse to not watch it. It's only like 10 minutes so there's definitely no excuses.

Watched these days ago so brief words*

*Shinsuke Nakamura & Tomohiro Ishii vs Minoru Suzuki & Kengo Mashimo - NJPW 24.11.2012*
_Who'da thunk a Nakamura/Ishii team would produce so much greatness. This is all about Nakamura and Suzuki being awesome with Ishii starring in his more traditional supporting role. Leg work during the control segment gives it more focus and makes it instantly better. Nakamura's selling is really great too and it renders his cutoff knees useless. Wanted him to sell it a touch more after the hot tag but he didn't totally ignore it and it wasn't the longest workover ever. Ishii off the hot tag is awesome. Mashimo doesn't really add anything but he's fine. Nakamura and Ishii are the best babyface team that never was._

*****1/4*

*Kazuchika Okada & YOSHI-HASHI vs Minoru Suzuki & Kengo Mashimo - NJPW 25.11.2012*
_And this rounds off a pretty awesome round robin between these 3 teams. This is all about Okada/Suzuki but thankfully the majority of the match is Okada/Suzuki. Okada getting punked out and schooled by Suzuki was great and made him step the intensity up which was a nice change of pace in Okada's performances. Arm selling was really good as usual from Okada. Not that it needed, confirmed but if it did then certainly confirmed how great Okada/Suzuki can and hopefully will be._

******

*New Puro shows go up here btw. It's the same guy who does the packs on XWT but he posts them there first. Plus you get parallel downloads on Sendspace so yay!. Don't spread the link around willy nilly though.*


----------



## Obfuscation

Jack Evans 187 said:


> It's definitely Cena/Brock, but I've yet to see Punk/Bryan from OTL and Shield/Hell NoBack.


(Y)

Gave the wild TLC another watch. Holds up @ ****1/2. So much FUN.

Holy FUCK I just found Callihan vs Generico 2/3 falls on Dailymotion. :mark:


----------



## geraldinhio

_Sami Callihan vs Dave Mastiff, SWE (2/24/12)_

Fun little match here. Mastiff is pretty impressive,real agile for his size with some good offence and works a very old school big man style. As WOOLCOCK said ( Gonna take time to get used to that name) He made a very good heel for an underdog to work off and this is where Sami excels. Really basic fun match with a simple big vs little man story. ***1/2 

I'm still not sold on Sami though. I'm starting to warm to him somewhat but still don't see the hype like many labeling WOTY. His mannerisms really annoy me. His over the top facial expressions, random shouting and umm , why does he have to dribble so much, just annoy me. It's the same mannerisms that people complain about Davey. Don't know how Sami is any different. I don't know , just don't think Sami's my thing. I can see why he appeals to people though. I'll give him credit where credit is due, he can take one hell of a beating. With the right opponent beating the shit out of him it can make for a fun match and he does play a good face in peril bar the annoying mannerisms.


----------



## Scavo

Re-watch:

Austin Aries vs. Jeff Hardy - TNA Bound For Glory: *****1/4*
The Young Bucks vs. Super Smash Bros - PWG DTABM, No DQ Match: *******
Kevin Steen vs. Ricochet - PWG BOLA: ******


----------



## Obfuscation

_*Dragon Gate: USA*_ - _Two out of Three Falls Match_

El Generico vs Sami Callihan ~ ****​
_"Like it. Love it. I might not be the biggest dog in the fight, but I'm the scariest. And I'm the best."_ - Sami Callihan

:mark: GREAT match. Dead crowd didn't even effect it for me. SURE...would it have been loads more fun with a crowd eating it up instead of sitting on their hands or chanting OLE at sporadic moments, but fuck it. These guys didn't need them to make something special. Callihan continues to show me that I'm correct in knowing he's fantastic (intense cocaine fueled mannerisms + drooling and all) and El Generico continues to increase my man-crush ever more. Generico sure knows how to sell an injury too. Hot damn he's the Best in the motherfucking World, I swear to science.


----------



## geraldinhio

I agree about Generico ,even the best in the world part. But not so much for the Sami bit.  

Maybe I have to watch more of his 2012 work? He had a run in BJW right? Really like his Cole and Generico matches but some of his PWG stuff kinda put me off him.

Any suggestions to try lure me on the Sami bandwagon?  Links would be appreciated.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Lord Santa Claus IV. said:


> *
> 
> I've got them Precious Memphis matches on my USB to watch. I was gonna watch them a few days ago but didn't get time. Sami/Mastiff is on youtube btw people so you've got no excuse to not watch it. It's only like 10 minutes so there's definitely no excuses. *


I can definitely see you digging everything, as well as the aforementioned vivalabrave. I've seen you're still a fan of the quirkier and more obscure acts in wrestling where people don't take themselves overly seriously and that's a tailor made attitude to loving Precious. Cage Match is everything you want from a Memphis indy. Very simple and not trying to force a classic, ton of great heel antics and violent offence, nutty bumps and the cage threatening to give way on a number of occasions.



geraldinhio said:


> I agree about Generico ,even the best in the world part. But not so much for the Sami bit.
> 
> Maybe I have to watch more of his 2012 work? He had a run in BJW right? Really like his Cole and Generico matches but some of his PWG stuff kinda put me off him.
> 
> Any suggestions to try lure me on the Sami bandwagon?  Links would be appreciated.


Supposedly his CZW work is some of his best this year. I've seen a Rich Swann match from January as well as matches versus AR Fox and Alex Colon get a lot of pimping for being very violent, having great selling and build to some of the bigger spots. I've only seen the 3/26 Sasaki match from BJW and truth be told I found it passable at best. They mostly worked a fight to gain the upperhand in a series of strike exchanges and I found some of Sami's verbal cries and gesturing to just be a little too much when it would have worked better in moderation. There's also a really awkward miscommunication spot where Sami is supposed to hit the ringpost but Sasaki doesn't move so Sami still goes through with the spot unaware and therefore somehow misses him.

The Finlay rematch from EVOLVE 11 and the WXW match are also supposedly two of his better outings, though like the first match they're by no means universally loved. I'm still struggling to track down a link for either of the matches as well as the CZW stuff so can't help with much else I'm afraid. Seabs also pimped a Marty Scrull/Callihan match from IPW but again I can only find a couple of minutes of the match on Youtube.

EDIT: Dates for his most pimped matches if it helps with tracking down a link in a pack at a torrent site -

vs Rich Swann, CZW 1/14
vs DJ Hyde, CZW 2/11
vs Finlay, WXW 3/2
vs Finlay, EVOLVE 4/13
vs AR Fox, CZW 4/14
vs Alex Colon, CZW 4/14
vs AR Fox, EVOLVE 5/11
vs John Morrison, 2CW 8/3 http://vimeo.com/52308729
vs Willie Mack, PWG 9/1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdHR3NCgROc


----------



## Obfuscation

geraldinhio said:


> I agree about Generico ,even the best in the world part. But not so much for the Sami bit.
> 
> Maybe I have to watch more of his 2012 work? He had a run in BJW right? Really like his Cole and Generico matches but some of his PWG stuff kinda put me off him.
> 
> Any suggestions to try lure me on the Sami bandwagon?  Links would be appreciated.


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xw...ico-best-2-out-of-3-falls_sport?search_algo=2

2/3 Falls match link.

Yeah, he worked BJW. Tons of the matches are up on dailymotion too. Links are all right next to the Generico/Sami match I posted. 

I'm plenty sold on him. I guess others just don't see it. And it's always for his mannerisms too more so than purely his whole in ring aspect. Fair enough. There is something about Kofi Kingston I despise. Granted, he's a shit wrestler too.



WOOLCOCK said:


> Supposedly his CZW work is some of his best this year. I've seen a Rich Swann match from January as well as matches versus AR Fox and Alex Colon get a lot of pimping for being very violent, having great selling and build to some of the bigger spots. I've only seen the 3/26 Sasaki match from BJW and truth be told I found it passable at best. They mostly worked a fight to gain the upperhand in a series of strike exchanges and I found some of Sami's verbal cries and gesturing to just be a little too much when it would have worked better in moderation. There's also a really awkward miscommunication spot where Sami is supposed to hit the ringpost but Sasaki doesn't move so Sami still goes through with the spot unaware and therefore somehow misses him.
> 
> The Finlay rematch from EVOLVE 11 and the WXW match are also supposedly two of his better outings, though like the first match they're by no means universally loved. I'm still struggling to track down a link for either of the matches as well as the CZW stuff so can't help with much else I'm afraid. Seabs also pimped a Marty Scrull/Callihan match from IPW but again I can only find a couple of minutes of the match on Youtube.


Yep, need to hop on the train myself and watch his CZW work. 60 minute Ironman vs Drake Younger is a must. Could be a very, VERY long winded match. I'm down for it though. Alex Colon is really a hot prospect right now so looking forward to his most recent meetings vs Sami.

I was going to watch the 3/26 match vs Sasaki after I slam through the Smash Bros vs Young Bucks vs Future Shock from PWG. I'll hope I find it to be quite good. I personally LOVED the Finlay matches.

*PWG - Failure To Communicate*

El Generico & Kenny Omega vs The Young Bucks ~ ****1/4​
No need for a lengthy review as I can't say anything different than what has been said for this match. Must see. I enjoyed Generico being a supporting player in the bout. Glad it got to be more about Omega considering it was his first match in PWG in nearly 3 years. Generico turned it up at the end with the SAVE~! New age tag team wrestling done like this is always a win. Young Bucks for best tag team in the universe atm? Yeah. I'd say so. AVALANCHE CROYT'S WRATH? WHAT THE?! YES.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I loved the first Finlay encounter as well. Perfect setting for Sami and it really made me consider him to be very good (think it might have been the first match I actually saw of him in full) as I didn't imagine many guys on the major independent scene could take and sell that sort of beating the way Callihan did. Bunch of very nice subtle moments in the match from Finlay and especially in the form of Callihan breaking out the ring rope counter Finlay made a staple of his in his 2006 comeback. Also loved Finlay poking fun at the EVOLVE rules and just kicking Callihan in the knee when he dares him to a straight fight. That being said I've seen people critique the match and argue it to not be very good. Personally I didn't find much fault in the selling, structure, story, build, offence and general layout of the match. I thought the finishing stretch was balanced perfectly between making Callihan look strong and not going too long in the process as well. I am a huge Finlay fan though and pretty much consider his style to be near enough my favourite formula going today.

You may enjoy the Sasaki match, but personally matches where two guys just trade strike exchanges without the proper control and struggle in hitting the strikes don't really impress me. Hashimoto and co working to make their comebacks and selling the strikes I can get behind, two guys just standing still and waiting to be chopped/punched no matter how much I can see the story they're trying to tell just never wows me and always makes it a chore to sit through the entire match.


----------



## Obfuscation

Hmm. All the reviews I saw were positive. I personally don't see how one could find faults in the first Finlay/Callihan match. That's me.

We'll see how it goes for me. I prefer strike exchanges done in a more intense fashion over the way you described, granted I can get behind a "can you top this, motherfucker?" type deal. Reminds me a lot of some Necro Butcher exchanges.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

In fairness I don't recall a review which panned the match, but there were a few 'good but nothing more' reviews and I definitely remember a bit of a discussion developing over whether the match was really that good or overrated/underrated by some.

Fair enough. I'm generally a fan of Necro Butcher exchanges, partly because he generally times them better and I can see them fitting the context of a brawl better than a straight wrestling match. The punch exchange in the Joe match seconds before he dies via Exploder is one of my favourite exchanges ever, especially because Necro's punches look filthy and tooth shattering.


----------



## Obfuscation

There are Necro's exceptions. vs Joe being the key one. Some matches he has his trademark of sitting down a chair, the opponent sits down a chair, and they have at it. Followed by the match going back to the normal tempo. That brief bit though reminded me of what you were saying about the Callihan vs Sasaki match. We both had our lovefest with Necro before. We know he's a boss. Head and shoulders above most when it comes to keeping a strike exchange legit, credible, and downright mean.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Aye I can see the similarity in that trademark spot and the criticism I had of the strike exchange battles. Truth be told unless he throws some utterly filthy punches that chair spot is generally one of my least favourite parts of a Necro brawl. It should be noted I do appreciate a strike exchange, but I'd sooner see something like Hashimoto/Tenryu where they're both fighting to gain control and its frantic and one gains the advantage instead of motionless striking daring the other on. I guess it stems from workers not executing the spot as well as it can be done since practically any sequence/spot can be great if put in the hands of good workers and executed/timed appropriately.


----------



## Chismo

I love Sami's wrestling-on-coke style, not every match needs long feeling out processes. Plus, he holds nothing back, he's legit. And his match collection from 2012 tells the entire story:

- two Generico matches
- three Fox matches
- two Finlay matches
- his CZW run in general
- BJW stuff (7/30 trios and the Strong Climb)
- his PWG stuff
- the CIMA match

And I yet need to watch the 1hr Ultraviolent Rules Ironman with Drake, and the Gargano match from EVOLVE 18.

Btw, Fox/Colon and Hyde (yes, DJ Hyde)/Tremont both from Tangled Web 5 are two must-see matches.


----------



## Obfuscation

Absolutely. It all comes down to the capability of the workers involved doing said spot. You can have Necro go out and be as lethal as possible with his punches. Then you could have someone a bit less believable or forceful with strikes trying to do the same thing and it won't come off nearly as well. That's the nature of the beast.

I just watched Sami carry an entire match vs Willie Mack. He's the man. CALLIHAN :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993

Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! said:


> Yep, need to hop on the train myself and watch his CZW work. 60 minute Ironman vs Drake Younger is a must. Could be a very, VERY long winded match. I'm down for it though.


I saw that. It's good. It's an hour long CZW iron man match so you might expect a steaming pile of ECW rip-off indyism shit, but Callihan has control of a lot of the match and plays his quasi-monster role like he kinda did against Rich Swann in January. Didn't think much of Younger but he sold a leg injury pretty neatly IIRC.

I've seen the Necro Butcher get a ton of hate and I don't get that either.


----------



## Obfuscation

Yeah1993 said:


> I saw that. It's good. It's an hour long CZW iron man match so you might expect a steaming pile of ECW rip-off indyism shit, but Callihan has control of a lot of the match and plays his quasi-monster role like he kinda did against Rich Swann in January. Didn't think much of Younger but he sold a leg injury pretty neatly IIRC.
> 
> I've seen the Necro Butcher get a ton of hate and I don't get that either.


Sounds really promising. I like Drake. I think he's pretty solid outside of death matches and he actually tries/knows how to work traditional bouts. I give him credit. Some death match workers simply don't know dick about other matches. Including Danny Havoc. But, I'm still a fan. Sami is the king though. I got to give this match a watch. Still can't believe they worked a 60 minute match together.

Nor do I. I do think it died down when he went to ROH and showed more people his capabilities. Doesn't matter. I know how good he is. You do. Anyone who seems him does. He even plays a great comedic heel too. "Hollywood" Dylan Summers in 2008 was a whole lot of fun.


----------



## Yeah1993

Link to the iron man:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xt3nlm_yyyyy-yyyyy-y-yyyy-yyyyyyyy-14-07-2012_sport#.UN4HW28snSg

It's missing around forty seconds at the beginning.


----------



## Obfuscation

Oh man it's on dailymotion? Radical.

*PWG Death To All But Metal* - _PWG Tag Team Championship_ - _No DQ Match_

The Young Bucks(c) vs Super Smash Brothers ~ ****1/2​
:mark: Tag team excellence prevails once again. Super Smash Brothers coming to PWG is the best thing ever. Forget hyperbole. I'm dead serious. They were always amazing, but PWG has brought it out of them more so than any promotion.


*PWG Threemendous III* - _PWG Tag Team Championship_ - _Ladder Match_

Super Smash Brothers(c) vs The Young Bucks vs Future Shock ~ *****​

PURE ABSOLUTE CHAOS. Three way ladder match was the most hazardous, alarming, amazing, breathtaking, spectacular, omg worthy match of the year. The best. The definitive best match of 2012. It accomplished EVERY SINGLE THING it set out to do. I adore and damn near worship Cena vs Brock, but that has been effectively knocked off its perch. Ladies and gentleman, that is Pro Wrestling Guerrilla.


----------



## Bubz

Really need to watch that ladder match again!

On the subject of Sami, I've only seen his PWG and Finlay matches, and he has never come across to me as a 'great' worker and I still don't buy the hype. His PWG matches have all ranged from really bad to just 'ok' for me, but the Davey match gave me hope that I might be able to see something in him if I watch more, but saying that, I really don't get the urge to watch any of his stuff because he just generally annoys me so much.

On another subject, here's my MOTY list so far since some other people did it(everything **** and over I've seen)...


> Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito (NJPW 04/03) ****1/2
> Kazuchika Okada vs Hiroshi Tanahashi (NJPW Dominion) ****1/2
> CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan (WWE Over The Limit) ****1/2
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki (NJPW King Of Pro Wrestling) ****1/2
> El Generico vs Kota Ibushi (DDT 21/10) ****1/2
> 
> Suwama vs Yuji Nagata (AJPW 05/05) ****1/4
> Tetsuya Naito vs. Kazuchika Okada (NJPW G1 Climax 03/08) ****1/4
> Daisuke Sekimoto vs Suwama (AJPW 02/01) ****1/4
> The Young Bucks vs El Generico & Kenny Omega (PWG Failure To Communicate) ****1/4
> The Young Bucks vs Future Shock vs Super Smash Brothers (PWG Threemendous III) ****1/4
> Bobby Roode vs Austin Aries (TNA Destination X) ****1/4
> Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus (WWE Extreme Rules) ****1/4
> Hirooki Goto & Tetsuya Naito vs Masato Tanaka & Shinsuke Nakamura (NJPW Dominion) ****1/4
> Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin (ROH SITS Night Two) ****1/4
> Kazuchika Okada vs Hirooki Goto (NJPW Dontaku) ****1/4
> Katsuhiko Nakajima vs SHINGO (D-Ring 11/02) ****1/4
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki (NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI) ****1/4
> Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yoshihito Sasaki (BJW 26/03) ****1/4
> Adam Cole vs Kyle O'Reilly (ROH Best In The World) ****1/4
> CM Punk vs Chris Jericho (WWE Extreme Rules) ****1/4
> Prince Devitt vs Pac (NJPW 06/06) ****1/4
> Suwama vs Seiya Sanada (AJPW 04/03) ****1/4
> El Generico vs Ricochet (PWG Death To All But Metal) ****1/4
> Go Shiozaki vs Takeshi Morishima (NOAH 22/01) ****1/4
> 
> Jun Akiyama vs Keiji Mutoh (AJPW 20/03) ****
> Jushin Thunder Liger & Tiger Mask vs Taichi & TAKA Michinoku (NJPW Dominion) ****
> The Shield vs Ryback & Team Hell No (WWE TLC) ****
> Horishi Tanahashi vs Togi Makabe (NJPW/AJPW 01/07) ****
> Kazuchika Okada vs Karl Anderson (NJPW King Of Pro Wrestling) ****
> CM Punk vs John Cena (WWE Night Of Champions) ****
> CM Punk vs Chris Jericho (WWE Wrestlemania 28) ****
> Kazuchika Okada vs Karl Anderson (NJPW King Of Pro Wrestling) ****
> Shinsuke Nakamura vs Karl Anderson (NJPW power Struggle) ****
> Austin Aries vs Samoa Joe (TNA Slammiversary) ****
> The Young Bucks vs The Super Smash Brothers (PWG Death To All But Metal) ****
> CM Punk vs Mark Hnery (WWE RAW 02/04) ****
> Sara Del Rey vs El Generico (CHIKARA) ****
> Yoshihito Sasaki & Yuji Okabayashi vs Daisuke Sekimoto & Big Van Walter (BJW 28/4) ****
> Daisuke Sekimoto & Yuji Okabayashi vs Suwama & Takumi Soya (AJPW 20/03) ****
> Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs Akebono & Ryuto Hama (BJW 02/01) ****
> Lowki vs Prince Devitt (NJPW Dontaku) ****
> CM Punk vs Mark Henry (WWE RAW 16/04) ****
> NRC vs Apollo 55 (NJPW The New Beginning) ****
> Daisuke Sekimoto & Yuji Okabayashi vs Akebono & Ryuto Hama (AJPW 03/01) ****
> Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk (WWE Smackdown 21/02) ****
> Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk (WWE RAW 30/01) ****
> HHH vs Brock Lesnar (WWE Summerslam) ****
> Chris Hero vs Michael Elgin (ROH Homecoming) ****
> Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yuji Okabayashi (BJW 26/02) ****
> Minoru Suzuki vs Togi Makabe (NJPW Dominion) ****
> Yuji Nagata & Wataru Inoue vs Masayuki Kono & Minoru (AJPW 03/02) ****
> Hiroshi Tanahashi, Hirooki Goto & Tetsuya Naito vs. Kazuchika Okada, Shinsuke Nakamura & Tomohiro Ishii (NJPW 10/06) ****


----------



## Obfuscation

I just watched the ladder match again ~!

Yeah, I'm sticking with giving it the full blown 5. Why not. It's too damn insane. I'm not shy about my marking for Ladder matches.


----------



## seabs

*Bubz's list is a pretty great starting point for people asking too btw.

Don't want to get into a big long winded post on Callihan because I'll just repeat myself a billion times. I'll do that when I post my top 50 workers thread. The trick for me with Sami is the same trick with 10/11 Davey. If it's on a minor show then chances are I'll enjoy it. More major show and he annoys me. Then funny thing is the majority of Sami's best matches JoeRulz didn't even list. I tune out when he goes too hard on his character. Sasaki match is the best example of him trying too hard and ruining a match with the character. Other times like the Mastiff and Scurll match where he's less of a character and is just focused on beating people up in unpretty ways are when he's a lot better. The Generico match from EVOLVE too. He just beats the piss out of Generico rather than focusing on pulling silly faces and doing stupid screams like the Sasaki match. He's not WOTY material because there's some terrible stuff out there but he's had a strong year I'd say. Performances like the 3/26 one make me really hate him though. If he's either beating the piss out of someone or working from behind the entire match then he can be really good. Mastiff and Generico matches for example. When it gets to trading strikes and screaming at people, that's when I start hating him and think he's worthless.

I'm 99% sure I'll love them Precious matches. There's no reason why I wouldn't. They surfaced just as soon as I stopped watching stuff frequently and haven't got around to them yet. Just under 2 weeks from now and I'll be able to roam through everything that is left to see. I might even make an extensive recommendation list, missing out the garbage MOTYCs like Steen/Elgin. BUT NOT EDWARDS/ELGIN.

Oh and all that British Indy stuff I've been pimping will be available in the coming days. I just need to find time to post it all into a pretty looking thread. I have links for tons of unsurfaced stuff though that should be seen.*


----------



## WOOLCOCK

*James Mason vs Zebra Kid, ASW (6/1/12)*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e0zp91jvno

Oh look, another really entertaining and enjoyable bout from Mr James Mason. Match is again a true staple of British wrestling with the crafty and cunning Zebra Kid having an array of tricks up his sleeve to contain Mason who proves to be a far classier opponent on the mat and trading holds and it sets up an intriguing story of whether Mason can finish Kid before Kid's tricks prove to be the great equaliser. Ton of great British chain wrestling in the early going and I especially loved Mason's counter of a body scissors by torquing Kid's wrist in an ugly angle before launching him halfway across the ring. Kid was a really fine heel here as well, constantly antagonising the crowd and having some really entertaining heel tactics such as drawing the referee's eye towards the crowd long enough to low blow Mason, punching Mason in the ribs as he was kicking out of a pin attempt, raking the eyes immediately after Mason has a nearfall as well as him constantly fiddling with the turnbuckles and drawing the referee away from the action. Loved how Mason looked a class above throughout and was only contained briefly by Kid who had to come up with more and more creative ways to keep Mason down before his overexuberance costs him the match as Mason reels off a flash combo to win the match.


*Finlay vs Danny Boy Collins, ASW (6/1/12)*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqD-hF-yAsw

Another gem of a match in the Finlay indy run and a true testament in how to work a more even contest but still employ control, selling and making each comeback/transition feel like a small personal victory given the beating that preceeded it. Collins was eerily Finlay esque in almost everything he did. Very opportunistic in capitalising on any small opening Finlay would give him, such as popping him with a forearm as Finlay was talking with the ref and I adored his crybay esque posturing when the ref admonished him for unsportsmanlike conduct. Finlay was his usual self, showing glimpses of his ability to play a tough face who took everything superbly and sold the wear and tear of the match superbly as the match ticked closer to the finish. Special mention to how he sold the exposed turnbuckle irish whip as if it had given him nerve damage in the right side of his body. Very physical and aggressive match with some well timed bumps and sequences and a nice way to work an even and scrappy bout with plenty of smart transitions and making each other look good whenever one of them was selling. Tombstone bump was also a variation of the usual Finlay tombstone and something unique again from Collins.


*Damien Wayne vs Kahagas, NWA (11/9/12)*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuJKqzCGJTM

This was covered very well by a few others, but I'll second the praising for it all the same. Very well worked 10 minute brawl that seems to be building to a big return match and given the work both men put in (although Wayne looked the more assured and polished performer) I'm excited for the future rematch. Commentator as mentioned really put this over and tried his hardest to make up for the small crowd and decline of the NWA from its heyday. Wayne's offence was spectacular with the legdrop looking really vicious and not out of place for what felt like a studio brawl as Seabs mentioned. Loved all the bumping and usage of the ringside area and whilst I can see Wayne bleeding as not being necessary, it did at least heighten the drama and make you think the match was heading in a more violent direction. Might have preferred if Wayne had taken the bottle finish instead of Kahagas, if only to put more heat on the champion but it was still a good looking spot to reflect the chaos that preceeded it. Nothing mindblowing amazing but its nice to see the art of subtle and simple brawling is still going strong with the loss of Gallows to TNA.


*Luke Gallows vs Charlie Dreamer, OSF (4/7/12)*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4y6ybeWFlw

Excellent brawl, most likely the best brawl from the indies all year (Santo TXT tag from 2/25 takes the cake as far as worldwide brawls go). Gallows is really super here and as a worker in general and its a shame he gets overlooked compared to some of the more popular workers. Everything he does looks great and he works his dominance and size advantage brilliantly to get you invested in the beating Dreamer takes. There's a ton of really simple yet excellent spots but the best one is definitely an homage to Lawler/Mantell with Gallows just throwing a bin at Dreamer's feet and making him take a great bump on the floor. Dreamer himself is a good babyface who eats a nice beating and some very nice bumping for Gallows' offence as well as selling emotively whenever the camera picked up on his facial expressions. Thought the stuff in the ring was a satisfactory way of them deciding to win the match and liked how both men just went out to end it there and then instead of trying to drag the match out any longer. Some of Dreamer's offence once in the ring didn't look that great, but that's a minor complaint as otherwise he was a good foil for Gallows who continues to impress in these small indy settings.


*Dean Allmark vs Nathan Cruz, ASW (3/24/12)*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9Umgh40IIo&list=UUK7K1c0TLzKY0gVJqT1xeLA&index=5&feature=plcp

Allmark shines again, ridiculously fun and entertaining match with a clear structure, another good energetic babyface performance from Allmark and Cruz being serviceable with some nice cut offs and having no trouble playing the fool in the heel in peril segment at the beginning of the match. I'm a sucker for comedy spots in British wrestling at the heels' expense and there were a couple of such moments during the babyface shine period with Cruz constantly being outsmarted by Allmark who seemingly had a counter for everything Cruz threw at him, the best being Cruz trying to float off the top turnbuckle in replicating Allmark's prior successful attempt only for Allmark to have it scouted. Transition spot and subsequent aggression from Cruz leading to a public warning was a nice continuation of the opening portion of the match where he was outclassed and noticeably irritated as such and Allmark always gets the crowd invested in everything he does without fail. Finishing stretch is packed with a couple of nice teases of Cruz getting the win and I especially dug the struggle in hitting the inverted michinoku driver which eventually led to a convincing nearfall. Finish was satisfactory and sent the crowd home happy.


*Steve Corino vs Sam Shaw, PWX (1/28/12)*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0hBRdq1U5c

"Shut up Carlton!"(to a black kid)
"D'ya know what Delta is? Its a place you'll be rejected from!"
"Not all white people are Justin Bieber you racist!" (to same black kid from earlier)
"I'm all man, just ask her. In about 3 hours she's gonna figure that out!"

So yeah, this is pretty much the Steve Corino show. It goes 25 minutes but I'd be surprised if more than 10 minutes of this was actual wrestling. Corino just excells at playing the classic heel who milks every trick in the book and continually trades insults with certain sections of the crowd. He pulls hair and then feigns having his own pulled, he sells his arse 90 seconds after an atomic drop, he shrieks at the ref for not getting a 5 count in the corner, he points to his taped up shoulder when he loses a shoulder charge battle etc. Its just wrestling schtick 101 and honestly its perfect from Corino to work this sort of match and just feed Shaw into doing the basics and still keeping the small crowd invested in what's developing. Actual finishing stretch suffers from dodgy camerawork and some less than clean transitions but the bulk of the match is consistently entertaining and I'll admit they got me on a couple of nearfalls. Classic case of a wrestler just working a character and making a match infinitely more entertaining whilst achieving the same purpose as they would working a match filled with strikes and sequences which look appealing but aren't timed or sold well enough.


Excellent to hear Seabs regarding the British indies stuff. I've got the Lawler 6 man tag from March ready to watch tomorrow as well as Finlay/Sanders and a couple of puro matches I doubt more than 10 people on here will bother to watch. Also found a few Allmark/Mastiff matches from 2010 and 2011 on youtube, will definitely have a look at them after I'm caught up with what I want to watch. Will Finlay/Kirby be in those Indy links? I only ask because I came across your review of it and I'm psyched to get a hold of the match at some point. I love seeing Finlay work as a face to freshen up his work but any chance I get of 2006 ruthless heel Finlay is good by me.


----------



## Heterodox

You're all idiots. Let's hate on Elgin because it's seemingly the cool thing to do on this fucking forum. OO YAY LETS OUT SMART THE SMARKZ AND GIVE CM PUNK VS MARK HENRY **** WHILE HATING ON RICHARDZ AND ELGIN AND CALLIHAN~!!!!!!

Get the fuck off your imaginary pedestal. Honestly.


----------



## Heterodox

Oh, and Elgin/Richards is ***** IMO. Does that anger you rebellious nitpickers?


----------



## Heterodox

Oh, and Elgin/Richards is ***** IMO. Does that anger you rebellious nitpickers?


----------



## Obfuscation

Will I get myself to bother with those English indies when I have some time...maybe. I'll probably watch the Finlay & Gallows matches at least. Last time I watched a gem posted from Seabs or WOOLCOCK it was the Wayne/Kahagas brawl and that owned.

Planning to be ON TOP of everything come 2013. Or try my hardest to not fall too behind.


----------



## Kenny

anyone have a link to that ladder match?


----------



## Obfuscation

which one


----------



## Kenny

WG Threemendous III - PWG Tag Team Championship - Ladder Match

Super Smash Brothers(c) vs The Young Bucks vs Future Shock ~ *****


----------



## Obfuscation

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xu...oung-bucks-vs-future-shock_sport#.UN7ACW_BF8E

:mark:


----------



## Bubz

Match fucking owns tbh.


----------



## Obfuscation

Twice in one day shows my love. Almost went for 3.

Nick Jackson's springboard MOON BOUNCE falling off the ladder --> onto the ropes legit made me jump out of my chair shouting. Felt like I WAS THERE.


----------



## Chismo

Hailsabin said:


> *PWG Death To All But Metal* - _PWG Tag Team Championship_ - _No DQ Match_
> 
> The Young Bucks(c) vs Super Smash Brothers ~ ****1/2​
> :mark: Tag team excellence prevails once again. Super Smash Brothers coming to PWG is the best thing ever. Forget hyperbole. I'm dead serious. They were always amazing, but PWG has brought it out of them more so than any promotion.
> 
> 
> *PWG Threemendous III* - _PWG Tag Team Championship_ - _Ladder Match_
> 
> Super Smash Brothers(c) vs The Young Bucks vs Future Shock ~ *****​
> 
> PURE ABSOLUTE CHAOS. Three way ladder match was the most hazardous, alarming, amazing, breathtaking, spectacular, omg worthy match of the year. The best. The definitive best match of 2012. It accomplished EVERY SINGLE THING it set out to do. I adore and damn near worship Cena vs Brock, but that has been effectively knocked off its perch. Ladies and gentleman, that is Pro Wrestling Guerrilla.


Five fucking stars to both. 



@*KingKenny* Just download the whole Threemendous III show from XWT, you won't regret it.


----------



## bigbuxxx

> PWG Death To All But Metal - PWG Tag Team Championship - No DQ Match
> 
> The Young Bucks(c) vs Super Smash Brothers ~ ****1/2


nitpicking at hailsabin. bucks were not actually the champs here. the belts were held up after super dragon/steen had to vacate them and this match was held to determine the champs. also that tag match is on daily motion as well


----------



## geraldinhio

Hailsabin said:


> Twice in one day shows my love. Almost went for 3.
> 
> Nick Jackson's springboard MOON BOUNCE falling off the ladder --> onto the ropes legit made me jump out of my chair shouting. Felt like I WAS THERE.


And then lands on his fucking feet. :mark: I rewatched it twice in the last two days and I see no reason not to give it the five. I really have to rewatch Brock/Cena soon.

Thanks for all the opinions and links on Sami. I know I'll more than likely love the Generico matches.

EDIT- Does anyone have a link to Super Smash Brothers vs Marko Estrada & Michael Style - Street Fight from NSPW Golden Opportunity IV?

I'm watching as much SSB as I can lately. Came across this great little match on youtube. Beyond wrestling is so fun. Enjoy.


----------



## Chismo

Nick Jackson is the king of the world.


----------



## dk4life

JoeRulz said:


> Nick Jackson is the king of the world.


I agree, when he was pushed off the top of the ladder in the 3 way...off the top rope, marked the fuck out, was crazy.

watched the 3 way ladder match last night, loved it, ****1/2


----------



## WOOLCOCK

*Derrick King, Frankie Tucker & Jerry Lawler vs Pokerface & LA Hustlers, MCW (3/2/12)*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQqKYIXkgLk&feature=plcp

Incredibly fun match recommended to anyone who's a fan of Memphis style wrestling or just light hearted wrestling in general. The heels weren't overly impressive in terms of presentation and threat but in a way I thought that added a bit to the match as they came off as incredibly egotistical and thinking they were far better than they were, and it made all their bumping and comedy spots at their expense all the more funnier. Lawler was really great and its nice to know he still looked good prior to the heart attack. He's got his trademark punches down to a tee and is also really good at working the crowd in the beginning when the heels offer their hands out of respect and he anticipates a sneak attack. LOVED how he shook the hand respectfully of one of the Hustlers before slapping him when the Hustler backed him into a corner and having slapped Derrick King twice when having him in the same position earlier. There was also this amazing moment where Lawler does some looney tunes esque spot where he goes after Pokerface, taps him on the back before levelling him with punches, felt like something you'd see out of Daffy Duck and I mean that as a compliment. 

Derrick King's FIP segment was pretty good as well, a few nice bumps and classic STF traits such as him making a hot tag but the ref not seeing it as well as the heels taking cheap shots on the outside. Worth watching for the post match as well, as it develops from the finish and the pre-match stipulation and is a nicely done culmination of the match.


*Finlay vs Mal Sanders, LDN (2/23/12)*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0TucJ4D5T4

Another really unique and interesting Finlay match from the indy tour, this time contested under traditional WOS rules. Loved how Sanders was portrayed throughout as a vicious, cunning and ruthless heel who exploited every trick he could to contain Finlay and retain his advantage. The working over the hand was really vicious and looked great and was perfectly complimented by Finlay's sublime selling. Also loved how Finlay would constantly create small openings for himself to regain control only for Sanders to outsmart him and keep control. First fall finish could bother some after such a prolonged spell of Finlay's hand being worked over but I quite admired the creativity and subtle message behind the fall, namely that the minute Sanders gave Finlay enough distance he was able to use his experience to nab the first fall from a losing predicament. Loved how Finlay suckered Sanders into a handshake at the start of the next round and used it as an opportunity to dish out his own punishment of the hand. Sanders winning the second fall via submission by instantly countering and locking on a submission targeting the arm was a nice way to reinforce the effect his earlier workover had in weakening the hand and creating an opening he could exploit at any given opportunity. 

Final fall is where things break down as Finlay grows slowly frustrated by Sanders' antics and strikes and works to sucker him into the outside where Finlay can make it more of a brawl and stop the momentum. Sanders also attacking Finlay in between the end of rounds as well as sneakily low-blowing him at random opportunities to nullify his threat was a great sneaky heel tactic to rile up the crowd and I loved the comical finish with Finlay reclaiming the shillelagh from Sanders before tossing it to him and using the small opening to score a flash pin, felt very Eddie Guerrero esque from the Lie, Cheat & Steal phase of his career. Well worth a watch.


*Kana vs Syuri, SMASH (2/19/12)*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF7kGW8MVrY

Really smart structured match which really deserves a lot of credit. It breaks down into Syuri as the striker vs the submission expert in Kana and I loved how both women tried to match the other in the other's superior area, only to keep going back to their own speciality when things began to get away from them. Opening is tremendous with Kana trying to exchange kicks to feel out Syuri but ends up getting mangled repeatedly and drops to her knees where she's then the subject of a few disgustingly stiff kicks right to the face. Loved how that sequence immediately highlighted the dominance of Syuri and then led to Kana (who still sold the effects of the prior kicks remarkably well prior to the next lockup) immediately focusing on her technical game and looking to force numerous takedowns and submission attempts to contain Syrui as well as targeting her legs to lessen their impact. 

I would have liked Syuri to sell the effects of some of the leg submissions after she broke out of them as well as she sold the struggle in escaping the holds, but that's a small quibble as there is a great moment of eventual selling from her where she hits a running knee before grasping the leg immediately upon connection. As the match developed I especially loved Kana getting more confident and returning to strikes after feeling like she had neutralized and weakened Syuri, only to continue to come up short in every exchange and then frantically reaching for any submission she could execute. Personally whilst others might see her arm submissions as deviating from the leg strategy she employed before I thought it was a nice way of her acknowlodging Syuri as a continued threat and just searching for any submission that could win her the match. Both women sold the final exchange really well with both struggling to their feet after the dual strikes, and they spaced them out well to the point where they felt short and impactful instead of dull and dragging. Kana's resiliency right to the very end in kicking out of a couple of high impact kicks before succumbing to the final blow was a nice way to put her over in defeat in what would be SMASH's final show, as well as being a nice payoff to the story of Syuri's strikes being too much.


----------



## Bruce L

Just watched the 3-way ladder match. First PWG match I've seen all year, which I feel terrible about, but I actually figured I wouldn't like it because it was described as a crazy chaotic fray involving more than 2 guys, and it was in a venue that seems even less conducive to that sort of thing than normal (lots of potential for any outside action to get swallowed up in the sardine-packed crowd). That happened for a bit at the start (I would've loved to see Player Uno using the fans as weapons against Matt Jackson, which Excalibur and Steen were marking out over while the camera focused on the other guys on the other side of the ring), but this quickly turned into my biggest "mark-out moment" match of the year. No idea what star rating I'd give it, but it'll almost certainly be in my top 10 when I do my final list.


----------



## Nervosa

I'll be the one to rain on the pirade. Man I'm old.

Anyone have a prolbem with how contrived the triangle ladder is? Like how one of the young bucks, at the top of the ladder and able to grab the title, decides instead to reach over the top down to grab Coles hair for no reason, just so Cole can kick him? Completely no psychological reason to do this.

How about how the Bucks botched the powerbomb spot with uno because he kinda fell off the ladder? 

Or what about when they do the corner running spot how uno actually has to pull up the ladder and place it in front of himself so he can get hit with it perfectly? 

I love the match's action, its awesome, and is easily the best US Indy match of the year, but Currently it is #6 overall for me. Those three contrived/botched spots gotta bring it down a little for someone besides me, right?

sorry in advance for being 'that guy.'


----------



## Bruce L

Nervosa said:


> Like how one of the young bucks, at the top of the ladder and able to grab the title, decides instead to reach over the top down to grab Coles hair for no reason, just so Cole can kick him? Completely no psychological reason to do this.


This kind of raised my eyebrow at first, but in retrospect it's at least sort of justifiable given the established conventions of the ladder match, one of which is that taking down the belt is always a fairly frustrating production, even when done successfully. No matter how well-positioned you are to grab the belt, given the time it's almost certainly going to take and the high level of risk involved just being up there, making sure none of your opponents is in a position to mess you up (as Cole was then) can rightly be considered as big a priority as actually grabbing it.

I can't say I recall the other moments you mentioned, but I'll be re-watching soon so I'll look out for them.


----------



## Obfuscation

bigbuxxx said:


> nitpicking at hailsabin. bucks were not actually the champs here. the belts were held up after super dragon/steen had to vacate them and this match was held to determine the champs. also that tag match is on daily motion as well


ah right. complete brainfart. Excalibur even mentioned they were only 2x PWG tag team champs during the match too. 

I knew that.


----------



## Bubz

Rewatched/watched some stuff today I've wanted too for a while.

Rewatched the Threemendous ladder match and yeah, it definitely rules. Upped my rating to ****1/2 now. Shit, I was marking out more this time than I was the first time and I knew some of the spots. So much fun, probably the most purely fun and/or enjoyable match of the year.

Watched the two *Callihan/Cole* matches from CZW (forgot the dates/shows). One was a normal match which was really good actually. Had Cole as the babyface and getting his leg worked over. Loved Sami constantly throwing him over the ropes so he had to land on his legs. Kind of forgot about the leg work for a bit just to hit strikes which is one of things that annoys me about him, but he went back to the stretch muffler and I think I just need to accept that strikes is what he does most and so is always going to do them, but the stuff I've watched recently has had him going back to the submission and that's a good thing. Still find him genuinely irritating in almost everything he does though. Good babyface performance from Cole and not a MOTYC or anything but worth watching for fans of either guy. ***1/2 or so.

The other was a hardcore anything goes match and it was pretty bad. The stuff with the shit was stupid and the match just felt like nothing.

Watched *Steen/Generico from SITS Night 1*. Really liked the majority of it. It felt pretty plodding on a couple of occasions after the awesome start, but soon picked up during the middle and towards the end. It did become a bit of a prop fest at times, but the LMS format helped that aspect of it a lot with setting up spots and transitions etc. Loved Generico putting everything on the line and hitting three incredible spots in a row. Was a tad too long imo and the end was kind of awkward but I really enjoyed it. Around ****.

Finally watched *Nakamura/Ishii vs Okada/HASHI (NJPW 21/11)*. Great tag match. Okada and Nakamura together is incredible. They just try to out swag eachother and it really is amazing. Seriously marked for them stealing each others mannerisms and taunts. Okada proves he can be great working as the babyface and not just as a cocky heel in control. Just really want to see Okada/Nakamura right now. GIVE IT TO ME! Ishii was decent too but didn't do anything really great or anything. HASHI is kind of bad (first time I've bothered to watch a match with him in I think) so it was a good idea to have him get beaten for the majority of the match leading to the hot tag to Okada which he rocked. Wasn't as good when Ishii/HASHI were in but w/e. ****


----------



## topper1

Nervosa said:


> I'll be the one to rain on the pirade. Man I'm old.
> 
> Anyone have a prolbem with how contrived the triangle ladder is? Like how one of the young bucks, at the top of the ladder and able to grab the title, decides instead to reach over the top down to grab Coles hair for no reason, just so Cole can kick him? Completely no psychological reason to do this.
> 
> How about how the Bucks botched the powerbomb spot with uno because he kinda fell off the ladder?
> 
> Or what about when they do the corner running spot how uno actually has to pull up the ladder and place it in front of himself so he can get hit with it perfectly?
> 
> I love the match's action, its awesome, and is easily the best US Indy match of the year, but Currently it is #6 overall for me. Those three contrived/botched spots gotta bring it down a little for someone besides me, right?
> 
> sorry in advance for being 'that guy.'


I agree with you and then some I thought the match was crap. It reminded how fake wrestling is. I turned it off before the last 5 mins.


----------



## Obfuscation

Bubz said:


> Rewatched/watched some stuff today I've wanted too for a while.
> 
> Rewatched the Threemendous ladder match and yeah, it definitely rules. Upped my rating to ****1/2 now. Shit, I was marking out more this time than I was the first time and I knew some of the spots. So much fun, probably the most purely fun and/or enjoyable match of the year.
> 
> Watched the two *Callihan/Cole* matches from CZW (forgot the dates/shows). One was a normal match which was really good actually. Had Cole as the babyface and getting his leg worked over. Loved Sami constantly throwing him over the ropes so he had to land on his legs. Kind of forgot about the leg work for a bit just to hit strikes which is one of things that annoys me about him, but he went back to the stretch muffler and I think I just need to accept that strikes is what he does most and so is always going to do them, but the stuff I've watched recently has had him going back to the submission and that's a good thing. Still find him genuinely irritating in almost everything he does though. Good babyface performance from Cole and not a MOTYC or anything but worth watching for fans of either guy. ***1/2 or so.
> 
> The other was a hardcore anything goes match and it was pretty bad. The stuff with the shit was stupid and the match just felt like nothing.
> 
> Watched *Steen/Generico from SITS Night 1*. Really liked the majority of it. It felt pretty plodding on a couple of occasions after the awesome start, but soon picked up during the middle and towards the end. It did become a bit of a prop fest at times, but the LMS format helped that aspect of it a lot with setting up spots and transitions etc. Loved Generico putting everything on the line and hitting three incredible spots in a row. Was a tad too long imo and the end was kind of awkward but I really enjoyed it. Around ****.


I'm still gonna check out both Callihan/Cole matches. Gots to see how I feel. Don't blame me for wanting to see the hardcore match (hence the upload )

(Y) @ Steen vs Generico Last Man Standing. I thought it was pretty awesome much like all of their other matches. **** for me too.


----------



## Bubz

There's a great bit in the hardcore match where Callihan can't set up the chair structure/pile and the crowd boos. He takes too long doing it and Cole gets the advantage and sets the chair structure up straight away, the crowd cheers and he proceeds to taunt around the ring like he just solved a world crisis. It's great.


----------



## Groovemachine

Bubz said:


> There's a great bit in the hardcore match where Callihan can't set up the chair structure/pile and the crowd boos. He takes too long doing it and Cole gets the advantage and sets the chair structure up straight away, the crowd cheers and he proceeds to taunt around the ring like he just solved a world crisis. It's great.


Yeah that was so stupid on Callihan's part. Just improvise dude!! I was watching the match trying to see the good side to Callihan and then that happened. Really not convinced by him, don't see what the fuss is all about. Cole setting up the chair pile in about 3 seconds was awesome and just furthered my man crush. What a guy.


----------



## BKKsoulcity

Bubz said:


> Finally watched *Nakamura/Ishii vs Okada/HASHI (NJPW 21/11)*. Great tag match. Okada and Nakamura together is incredible. They just try to out swag eachother and it really is amazing. Seriously marked for them stealing each others mannerisms and taunts. Okada proves he can be great working as the babyface and not just as a cocky heel in control. Just really want to see Okada/Nakamura right now. GIVE IT TO ME! Ishii was decent too but didn't do anything really great or anything. HASHI is kind of bad (first time I've bothered to watch a match with him in I think) so it was a good idea to have him get beaten for the majority of the match leading to the hot tag to Okada which he rocked. Wasn't as good when Ishii/HASHI were in but w/e. ****


I can't take anymore of the Nakamura/Okada teases!!! This match/feud needs to go down ASAP in 2013.


----------



## Obfuscation

Bubz said:


> There's a great bit in the hardcore match where Callihan can't set up the chair structure/pile and the crowd boos. He takes too long doing it and Cole gets the advantage and sets the chair structure up straight away, the crowd cheers and he proceeds to taunt around the ring like he just solved a world crisis. It's great.


:mark:

That Adam Cole. He can do everything right.


----------



## seabs

Bubz said:


> he proceeds to taunt around the ring like he just solved a world crisis. It's great.


*Sold me on this match. I'll sit through all of it regardless but how great that sounds. I love Cole with all my heart.*


----------



## Violent By Design

whats everyones top 5-10 for 2012 right now? im way behind on all these minor indie promotions you guys keep pimpin.


----------



## mk92071

*DG Infinity 263 ~ 4 Trio Elimination Match: Masaaki Mochizuki, Don Fuji and Magnitude Kishiwada vs Jimmu Susumu, Ryo Saito and Genki Horiguchi vs Shingo Takagi, YAMATO and Chihiro Tominaga vs Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino and Ricochet*

Holy crap was this match great. If I had one word to describe this it'd be FUN~! So many great multiman spots early on with amazing sequences. Consistent action throughout the whole match, and to me it didn't feel nearly as long as it was. They had to be doing something right if 40 minutes flew by. Everybody looked good in this match. Oh and RICOCHET :mark:

****


----------



## seabs

*I posted a list with my order a page or so back.*


----------



## Concrete

This is my Top 25 at the moment. If I decided to rewatch all my Top 30-ish it could look a LOT different but I just don't have that type of time. So maybe in a month I'll have rewatched stuff again and reorganize. Had the Threemendous ladder match at number one and then I rewatched it back-to-back with the DTABM No DQ match and I joined the group that enjoyed that one better. Both are still insanely awesome. If I rewatched them again the results could be different again. Some matches I never posted my ratings and they show up on my list. The only major exclusion I believe is Punk vs. Bryan from OTL since I didn't see but otherwise I tried to see the majority of the most pimped stuff. Tried to find some diversity.Even saw a couple of Dean Allmark matches which dangle on the outside of my top 25. I still have some Joshi and AIW to watch from this year but my gut tells me neither are going to have anything that cracks my list. Hope this helps someone out there find some stuff. 

1.Kazuchika Okada vs Hiroshi Tanahashi(6/16/2012)-NJPW
2.Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito(3/4/2012)-NJPW
3.Bryan Danielson vs Sheamus(2/3 Falls)(4/29/2012)-WWE	
4.Eddie Kingston vs. Sara Del Rey(7/28/2012)-CHIKARA	
5.SSB vs The Young Bucks(No DQ)(5/25/2012)-PWG	
6.SSB vs The Young Bucks vs Future Shock(Ladder)(7/21/2012)-PWG
7.Brock Lesnar vs John Cena(Extreme Rules)(4/29/2012)-WWE	
8.Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Minoru Suzuki(10/8/2012)-NJPW	
9.Daisuke Sekimoto vs Yoshihito Sasaki(3/26/2012)-BJPW	
10.Kyoko Kimura vs. Natsuki Taiyo(8/5/2012)-STARDOM
11.Austin Aries vs Robert Roode(7/8/2012)-TNA
12.El Generico vs Ricochet(5/25/2012)-PWG
13.Shingo Takagi vs Katsuhiko Nakajima(2/11/2012)-D-Ring
14.Rush vs. Terrible(Hair vs. Hair)(9/14/2012)-CMLL
15.Daisuke Sekimoto vs Suwama(1/2/2012)-AJPW
16.Shinsuke Nakamura/Masato Tanaka vs. Hirooki Goto/Tetsuya Naito(6/16/2012)-NJPW
17.Maka Takanashi vs Yuji Hino(5/4/2012)-DDT
18.Team Axeman vs Team Walter(Elimination Tag)(3/4/2012)-WXW
19.Kazuchika Okada vs Hiroshi Tanahashi(2/12/2012)-NJPW
20.Kenny Omega vs Hiroshi Yamato(1/3/2012)-AJPW
21.Rick Knox/El Generico/Kevin Steen vs. Young Bucks/Brian Cage(9/2/2012)-PWG
22.Jigsaw vs. Eddie Kingston(5/20/2012)-CHIKARA
23.Daisuke Sekimoto & Yuji Okabayashi vs Suwama & Takumi Soya(3/20/2012)-AJPW	
24.Damien Wayne vs. Chris Esobar-VCW
25.Black Terry vs. Chico Che(1/22/2012)-IWRG


----------



## Caponex75

1. Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Minoru Suzuki

2. Davey Richards vs. Michael Elgin

3. The Undertaker vs. Triple H

4. Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena

5. CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan

6. PWG Tag title Triple Threat Ladder match

7. Okada vs. Naito

8. Robert Roode vs. Austin Aries 

9. Takeshi Morishima vs. Go Shiozaki II

10. I don't have a clue. Might be Tanahashi vs. KO II but I actually liked the first match more than the second. Might be personal bias of Tanahashi fucking beating Okada.

Six of those matches actually have the same rating. So yeah, this year has been pretty epic.


----------



## Obfuscation

Watched both Callihan vs Cole matches from CZW (Prelude to Violence & Cage of Death XIV)

PtV match was really strong, imo. Nothing MOTYC level, but a fitting follow up to what they gave us in 2011. I appreciated the selling of the knee by Cole and Callihan gave us everything I've come to expect from him. I know WOOLCOCK wouldn't be a fan of the standing STRIKE exchange. It wasn't too bad for me. Rest of the match was more than enough to look past it. Ending wasn't stellar, but I guess it fed into things nicely considering the history. Weird that Hyde would screw Cole even though it did nothing to work towards heel and face alignments changing. I thought by COD Cole would be a face & Callihan would be a heel. I guess that's what I get for not being 100% in tune with CZW during the year. ****3/4*

COD match was...sadly underwhelming. Callihan fucked up with the chairs spot and the shit stuff was terrible. Only Sami moment I can say I wasn't into. Just no. It was a whatever match. Started off promising. Eventually didn't pick up and not nearly worthy of being considered a MOTYC. Probably their weakest match vs each other. My least favorite Callihan match of the year _(his carry job vs Willie Mack was >)_ & one of Cole's weaker. I think his match vs Brutal Bob earns the honor of his worst._***1/2*_


----------



## Caponex75

To go more in-depth....or just to avoid having a post count of 666, let me explain some of my MOTYs. One through 6 all have the same Border rating(****3/4) and it's all numbered by which match I enjoyed the most. Tanahashi/Suzuki is the match that just represents everything I love about wrestling though. Fantastic storytelling, characters moments, psychology~!, and it's entire drama was based on much more than nearfalls. Not that nearfalls are a bad thing but it's almost unheard of to go through a whole match without having a pinfall and still have the whole crowd(or audience) completely enthralled in what you are doing. This wasn't done with the help of a ladder, chair, or any kind of gimmick....just two professional wrestlers controlling the crowd through interaction and appealing characters while having a completely serious match. That by self, earns it more than half the rating it got. The psychology in the match was fucking extraordinary and through heavy consideration, may be the Five star match for this year.


Richards vs. Elgin has the best fucking finishing stretch in years I dare say. There are matches that get me every now and then but the stretch to this has me marking out every time I see. Now while it is exciting, there is a reason while I call it one of the best fucking finishing stretches in ages. Richards ankle locks have been slowly but surely became a thing I have resented in wrestling. For lots of reasons and I don't feel like going into detail on all of them but those reasons make this match so much better. It's Richards finishing move. He has put countless guys away with it and I don't want to say it is a guarantee but it is a move that is incredibly pain full. Him immediately going for it after Elgin kicks out isn't bad psychology. If your head is throbbing and you then feel bones cracking as someone is trying to rip your damn ankle off, you are going to tap. It's a real life thing so it makes sense. Then after your ankle is attacked for so long, it's really going to be hard to stand on despite having so much will. Your body has got to give.

On other notes of the Elgin/Richards match, I use to not be that much of a fan of Richards spin kicking Elgin in the face after the powerbomb in the corner but I never watched that much Elgin to begin with. It becomes less offensive when you realize that is the predecessor to the Spinning Powerbomb. All it really meant was that Richards was trying to avoid Elgin's winning combination which in his case was quite pivotal and only makes the Elgin bomb more frightening. Plus the selling was never really a issue for me in this match as Richards expressions made Elgin's no selling seem like freak of nature and the lead to the big moves weren't random or seem like a case of doing them just to do them. After Richards got DESTROYED by Elgin on the outside, it was quite understandable that he'd have to do something big to comeback. Richards had to avoid the Super Powerbomb and fight back in order to get the Dragon Suplex but it was spread out in a decent amount of time for Richards to gain his wind. People saying this was offensive is shocking to me actually. They almost make it sound like B-boy vs. Drake Younger(Which is the biggest pile of shit 2012 has produced). It's fantastic I'd say


There are tons of other reasons I love this match but I'll probably go on about some time in the never future. I'll tell you one thing I don't like though, it's guys sitting on the apron waiting to get kicked. Thank goodness the rest of the match made up for it.

If you feel like reading my review on Triple H/Undertaker. It make me feel better and you can contribute to my feelings so alcohol won't have too.

 No, I'm not shamelessly plugging my stuff. How dare you. But if you choose to click here to read my review on Aries/Roode, I'll surely stop sending those death threats to your family....surely.


----------



## Nervosa

Love your list, Capone. Agree on Richards/Elgin. I can't believe people still are upset about the ankle lock after the kickout. all of your reasoning is really good. Its like when Samoa Joe used to do the folding powerbomb into a cover, then the other guy kicks out and he used the momentum to roll into a boston crab variation. I loved it then and I love it, here.

Obviously we disagree on Taker/Trips(what else is new), and I liked Naito/Okada way way more, but I really enjoyed your thoughts.


----------



## Caponex75

Well the reason I actually liked the Ankle Locks here is because Richards never set them up. He has this habit of going for the pinfall and then obviously being ready to set up the A L. It was cool and actually smart at one point but got real annoying to me because pinfalls became incredibly unrealistic or easy to predict someone was going to kick out. I don't know if it was because of the heat of the moment or by design but it was fucking awesome to see Richards reach out to maul that Ankle after what he was doing didn't work. It felt like desperation to keep the beast down and made the match so good. Then the payoff was so awesome. Out of nowhere when Elgin's leg just gave up settings up the prefect finish...which actually wasn't the finish. 

They took a chance but it was preluded by the storytelling earlier and it only was escalated after his ankle gave on him. It was like Elgin's heart was there and his body wasn't and he was just LIVID about it. That the Unbreakable got broken and that single thought to Elgin did not fucking fly. He wasn't going to get beaten like this and he wasn't, in his mind, get disrespected like this ether. I really fucking love that match.

Hot damn, I really want to write a review on this match but I'm to lazy. I could go on and on about how Richards/Elgin was amazing.


----------



## Nervosa

My Final list for the year.

1. Okada vs. Naito ****3/4
2. Tanahashi vs. Suzuki ****3/4
3. Tanahashi vs. Okada****3/4
4. Bryan vs. Punk****1/2
5. Tozawa/Hulk vs. Kagetora/Susumu **** ½
6. Brock vs. Cena **** 1/2
7. Elgin vs. Richards ****1/2
8. SSB vs. Future Shock vs. Young Bucks **** 1/4
9. Goto vs. Ishii ****1/4
10. Okada vs. Anderson ****1/4
11. Nakamura vs. Okada **** 1/4
12. Okada vs. Naito 2 ****1/4

Everything I had over ****1/4. For the record I did see Trips/Taker and the no DG Bucks/SSB matches, and I can't say I found either good enough.


----------



## mk92071

*My Top 10*
1. Kazuchika Okada vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi - 6/16/12 - ****1/2
2. Davey Richards vs. Michael Elgin - 3/31/12 - ****1/2
3. Matt Jackson and Nick Jackson vs. Player Uno and Player Dos vs. Adam Cole and Kyle O'Reilley - 7/21/12 - ****1/2
4. Kazuchika Okada vs. Tetsuya Naito - 3/4/12 - ****1/2
5. Tommy Wilson vs. Kid Caramba - 1/14/12 - ****1/4 (SoCal Locals)
6. Akira Tozawa, Kevin Steen, and Super Dragon vs. Pac, Masato Yoshino, and El Generico - 1/29/12 - ****1/4
7. Kazuchika Okada vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi - 2/12/12 - ****1/4
8. Player Uno and Player Dos vs. Matt Jackson and Nick Jackson - 5/25/12 - ****1/4
9. La Sombra vs. Volador Jr. - 1/22/12 - ****1/4
10. Kenny Omega and El Generico vs. Matt Jackson and Nick Jackson - 10/27/12 - ****1/4

I have maybe 5-10 more ****1/4 matches, but nothing from WWE that I watched this year hit about **** for me, and I watched most of the highly pimped stuff. I didn't get a chance to watch New Japan's King of Pro Wrestling and a lot of Japan. I think I only rewatched #2 and #5 so take the list with a grain of salt. All first impressions.


----------



## Bubz

Nervosa said:


> My Final list for the year.
> 
> 1. Okada vs. Naito ****3/4
> 2. Tanahashi vs. Suzuki ****3/4
> 3. Tanahashi vs. Okada****3/4
> 4. Bryan vs. Punk****1/2
> 5. Tozawa/Hulk vs. Kagetora/Susumu **** ½
> 6. Brock vs. Cena **** 1/2
> 7. Elgin vs. Richards ****1/2
> 8. SSB vs. Future Shock vs. Young Bucks **** 1/4
> 9. Goto vs. Ishii ****1/4
> 10. Okada vs. Anderson ****1/4
> *11. Nakamura vs. Okada **** 1/4*
> 12. Okada vs. Naito 2 ****1/4
> 
> Everything I had over ****1/4. For the record I did see Trips/Taker and the no DG Bucks/SSB matches, and I can't say I found either good enough.


I REALLY need to see this. I never got around to it. Is it on Dailymotion?


----------



## Nervosa

Bubz said:


> I REALLY need to see this. I never got around to it. Is it on Dailymotion?


No it actually isn't. Come to think of it, I already forgot where I got this match. If I figure it out I'll let you know.


----------



## Zatiel

Nervosa said:


> No it actually isn't. Come to think of it, I already forgot where I got this match. If I figure it out I'll let you know.


A clipped version is on Youtube. Even that version is highly rad.


----------



## ywall2breakerj

Nervosa said:


> No it actually isn't. Come to think of it, I already forgot where I got this match. If I figure it out I'll let you know.


SEABS.


----------



## Bubz

Yeah I saw there was a clipped version on YT but I'd obviously rather see the full match.

*Sami Callihan vs Rich Swann (CZW An Excellent Adventure)*
A Callihan match I really liked. Wow. But seriously, he was great in this. This is his best performance I can remember seeing just behind the Finlay match. He was great playing the underdog in that match, and here he was great playing the bully for the entire match. Seabs said he thought Callihan was great in either of those two roles, and I'm actually starting to think he might be dead on. Everyone knows by now what annoys me about him, and some of that was still present here, but nothing that I hated or anything that took me out of it like with all of his PWG matches and his BJW matches from this year. He destroys Swann (who is also really good as an underdog), working the leg and pummeling him like he's nothing, and when he gets too cocky and starts to do ridiculous Sami Callihan mannerisms, he's cut off because Fox see's an opening. Anyway, I could write for ages about Callihan so enough of that. The Leg work and selling is swell, and the finish is cool. An extended squash really, but that's not a bad thing, especially in indy wrestling. Dug this a lot. ******


----------



## Chismo

http://vimeo.com/45216512

Callihan/Younger, 2/3 Falls. I still need to watch the Ironman. I have it downloaded, though.


----------



## seabs

*Bubz, did you watch the Swann or the Fox match I linked you to there? I'm super confused right now without you adding to my ishfiebiefhba3rhb state. If it's the Swann match, then yeah I really liked that too for the time it goes. You'll really like the Generico match from EVOLVE going off that write up.*


----------



## Bubz

Ah I see what I did there. Yeah it was the Swann match. Changed it now. The Generico match I've been meaning to watch ever since you wrote about it in here ages ago, I'll give it a download now hopefully. It was Evolve 13 right?


----------



## The Rainmaker.

I have a huge list of matches from 2012 that I've rated **** or higher. Once I catch up on a few things I'll post it.


----------



## Groovemachine

Kazuchika Okada (c) vs Karl Anderson - NJPW King of Pro Wrestling 2012 - ****1/4

Genuinely preferred this to Suzuki/Tanahashi. Great contest from the outset, but WOW what a finishing stretch. The pace at which they countered their finisher attempts was a spectacle to behold. LOVED the nearfall off of Anderson's tombstone piledriver, looked like a rough landing for Okada who'd already taken his fair share of punishment to the neck. Okada's selling was tremendous too, particularly after the neckbreaker he took on the outside off the guard rail. Made it all the more cringe-worthy, and you really empathise with him, Okada's just a terrific babyface.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Way to many superman kick outs in that match imo. It was fun to watch but it was also really dumb in a star ratings way.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

*Sami Callihan vs Rich Swann, CZW An Excellent Adventure (1/14/12)*

BUBZ layed out the bulk of the match and summed it up very well, so I won't deviate much from his argument and will keep it short. Well structured and layed out match with Callihan playing the sadistic champion who continually has to overcome the superior agility of Swann, something he struggles greatly with until Swann's leg gives out on a dive and it becomes a focus for Callihan to exploit just when the match threatens to get away from him. Swann sold the leg hinderance perfectly, with an acceptable balance between building to and hitting his high spots whilst selling the pain and effort in executing each one, and there were a couple of really subtle moments of selling from him struggling to get back into the ring and hobbling when he was knocked off the top rope from a Callihan headbutt that felt like something you got from Masters in 2010 on Superstars. The finishing run is very good with Callihan looking to exploit the leg injury whilst Swann relies on passion and Callihan's elaborate sadistic torture to find a way back into the match. They both hit a couple of very good counters and the finish is a really perfect way to sell the story of Swann being close but ultimately unable to overcome Callihan. Very little Sami mannerisms that I could see irking anyone, bar maybe the odd facial expression. But there's enough from a structure, selling, pacing and story standpoint to let that be a minor nitpick.


*Sami Callihan vs AR Fox, CZW Best of the Best (4/14/12)*

A lot to like here, but there were still a couple of hinderances which irked me, namely Callihan's posing and interaction with the crowd along with the delayed setup with a few bits of his offence which just came off as un-needed imo. Still he's at his best arguably as the guy mercilessly brutalising his opponent and he's relentless here. Fox hits a dive before the bell and then goes for a second dive only for Callihan to pull the guardrail forward and let Fox take a horrifying bump headfirst into the concrete floor. Fox has a bloodied ear from an earlier match and Callihan targets it throughout including headbutts, palm strikes, forearms to a defenceless Fox and my personal favourite, a sadistic torquing of the ear when he had Fox tied up on the floor. Fox sold the ear throughout as a constant source of pain and took some really impressive/horrific bumps throughout..but I can't decide whether I liked his constant high flying offence as an acknowledgement that he had to throw everything at Callihan to win, or whether it just came off as hammy and overly elaborate.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt since he sold the desire to win as well as he did the beating Callihan inflicted and the way Callihan controlled the majority of the match and fed Fox comebacks through his delaying and posturing was a nice subtle story that made you think Fox could win. The consecutive lariat bumps got madder with each bump and whilst I wanted to hate Fox kicking out at 1 on the third lariat I at least thought all the flashes of his desire to win at least covered up how annoying it was as well as the timing of the spot. Actual finish was really good with Callihan turning the stretch muffler into an assault on Fox's bloody ear and then transitioning into a sudden half crab with the arm trapped to force a victory. The bulk of this was really good and definitely an example that Callihan brings a lot to a match, if he could just curb the constant crowd pandering and dialogue (seriously, is he on some journalist esque pay scheme where he gets an extra $ for every word he says?) then this would have been flawless on his part.


----------



## flag sabbath

El Generico vs Kenny Omega from DDT on 23/12 is up on dailymotion: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xw...nerico-c-ddt_sport?search_algo=2#.UOXF62_F-So

It falls short of being a MOTYC for me, but I figured I'd post it here so folks can judge for themselves. There's a great segment early on with Omega working on Generico's ribs & some dramatic near-falls, but Kenny's unwillingness to sell anything for more than a minute at a time (despite being the crowd's favourite) drags the whole thing down a notch or two.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Watched the MOTY episode of ROH which had Steen vs Mondo in it and after rewatching it I rememberd how good this match was. Just an excellent underdog match with the crowd being hot and pro-Mondo, Mondo was really good here and it probably was his best perfemonce in ROH. Around ***1/2-***3/4 for me, great TV match, more people here needs to watch this.


----------



## ywall2breakerj

*KENTA vs Takashi Sugiura-NOAH 23.11.2012.*

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand we have a winner.


My new #1 match in 2012 puroresu. Let's compare it to the awesome match they had last year since it's similar to it.
What did it lack that their previous encouter had? DAT SPOT.
What did it have their previous encouter didn't or was better executed? More meaningful transitions, awesome counters and sequences (one seemed botched but a replay convinced me otherwise), beter timing, less time which resulted in it not dragging at any point and the best finishing stretch in years.


And if all that didn't convince you to stop whatever you're doing right now and watch it,



Spoiler: ka



THERE WERE PUNCHES




★★★★½


----------



## Bubz

Well, I didn't care for their match last year, but there was definitely something good between them. I'll give that a watch since you seem to generally have a similar taste to me and all that jazz.


----------



## Caponex75

Where the fuck is that match? I DEMAND that you tell me.


----------



## Stardust Genius

KENTA vs Takashi Sugiura (GLOBAL LEAGUE 2012 - 23.11.): http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xwacpj_kenta-vs-takashi-sugiura-noah_sport


----------



## Bubz

n/m, was beaten to it .


----------



## wildpegasus

Stardust Genius said:


> KENTA vs Takashi Sugiura (GLOBAL LEAGUE 2012 - 23.11.): http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xwacpj_kenta-vs-takashi-sugiura-noah_sport


I can't get this video to show up. It stays on the black screen. Other videos are working though. Is it working for anyone else? I waaaaant to watch this now.


----------



## Yeah1993

Works for me.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Rewatched some stuff..

*TNA Sacrfice:*
Bully Ray vs Austin Aries - ****
Joe said everything I think about this match. I love Ray's trash talking during the matches, adds lots of heat. This match Aries look really awesome, sadly TNA fucked up his title reign.

AJ Styles vs Kurt Angle - ***3/4
Long & very good match. What you'd exepcted from thees two.

Rob Van Dam vs Bobby Roode - ***3/4
Pefrect filler defense for Roode, really enjoyable match and this probably was RVD best pefromnce in long time, but I swear to god that I knew he's going to botch that spot in the end even if I didn't watched the match before :lol

*TNA Slammiversary 2012:*
Austin Aries vs Samoa Joe - ***3/4
Another match that made Aries looks like million bucks. What an awesome opener this was, this is the Samoe Joe I want to see.

Bully Ray VS Joseph Park - ***1/2+
Oh man this was fantastic. Park is absolutely brrilant, the little things he does adds a lot to the matches. Awesome match, Bully Ray was phenomenal heel. Their Street Fight was great too.

AJ Styles and Kurt Angle vs Kazarian and Christopher Daniels - ****1/4
Great tag team wrestling match and Styles' SSP was amazing. I was pissed that Angle and Styles lost the belts so quickly because this match me exicted about future title reign. At least they lost it to KAZRIAN AND DANIELS.


----------



## wildpegasus

Yeah1993 said:


> Works for me.


Thanks for the reply. I can get EL Generico vs Omega working from the same username but this and apparantly some others aren't working. This is making me just want to watch it more. It's adding value to it


----------



## Matt_Yoda

Late as all hell but whatever, better late than never.

*Dragon Gate Year In Review:
Overall, this was a solid year for Dragon Gate, it wasn’t going to top last year because lets face it, 2011 was the best overall DG year since 2007. Point is, this year was about getting back into the multi faction groove and having fun. I’d say mission accomplished and another hell of a year for Dragon Gate can’t wait to see what they pull out this year. NOTE: *This show does not include Final Gate, if I decide to watch that (which I most likely will) I'll do a separate review of that at a later date.*

*Dragon Gate Show of the Year: Kobe World Festival
Dragon Gate Wrestler of Year: CIMA
Dragon Gate Overlooked of the Year: Jimmy Susumu
Dragon Gate Faction of the Year: The Jimmyz*

Top 10 Dragon Gate Matches 2012:

CIMA vs. Akira Tozawa (7/22/2012)- ****3/4
CIMA vs. PAC (3/4/2012)- ****1/2+
CIMA vs. Jimmy Susumu (2/5/2012)- ****1/2
Shingo vs. YAMATO vs. Tozawa vs. Hulk vs. Doi vs. Yoshino (6/24/2012)- ****1/2
Dragon Kid vs. Ricochet (7/22/2012)- ****1/4
Tozawa, BxB Hulk & Cyber Kong vs. Mochizuki, Shingo & YAMATO (2/5/2012)- ****1/4
Jimmy Susumu & Jimmy Kagetora vs. Shingo Takagi & YAMATO (7/22/2012)- ****
Mochizuki, Fuiji & Gamma vs. Kanda, Horiguchi & Saito (3/4/2012)- ****
CIMA vs. YAMATO (8/22/2012)- ***3/4
Doi, Yoshino & PAC vs. BxB Hulk, Kong, Tanizaki vs. Mochizuki, Fuiji & Gamma (7/22/2012)- ***3/4


----------



## Nervosa

No love for my tag match of of the year, Jimmyz vs. Blankey?


----------



## Bubz

Not seen that yet. Probably because I don't watch Dragon Gate, but if it's a great match then I'll give it a whirl.


----------



## Chismo

Nervosa said:


> No love for my tag match of of the year, Jimmyz vs. Blankey?


I hopre you're talking about this match:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xp...-dragon-gate_sport?search_algo=2#.UOhYiqwfg1s

*****1/4*


----------



## Bubz

Watched KENTA vs Sugiura and I really didn't like it at all. Just felt like they were going through the motions and hitting each other hard. No structure to get me to care about anything they did, just like almost every match from the company I've seen this year. Go vs Morishima is still the best NOAH match this year.


----------



## Groovemachine

Matt_Yoda said:


> Late as all hell but whatever, better late than never.
> 
> *Dragon Gate Year In Review:
> Overall, this was a solid year for Dragon Gate, it wasn’t going to top last year because lets face it, 2011 was the best overall DG year since 2007. Point is, this year was about getting back into the multi faction groove and having fun. I’d say mission accomplished and another hell of a year for Dragon Gate can’t wait to see what they pull out this year. NOTE: *This show does not include Final Gate, if I decide to watch that (which I most likely will) I'll do a separate review of that at a later date.*
> 
> *Dragon Gate Show of the Year: Kobe World Festival
> Dragon Gate Wrestler of Year: CIMA
> Dragon Gate Overlooked of the Year: Jimmy Susumu
> Dragon Gate Faction of the Year: The Jimmyz*
> 
> Top 10 Dragon Gate Matches 2012:
> 
> CIMA vs. Akira Tozawa (7/22/2012)- ****3/4
> CIMA vs. PAC (3/4/2012)- ****1/2+
> CIMA vs. Jimmy Susumu (2/5/2012)- ****1/2
> Shingo vs. YAMATO vs. Tozawa vs. Hulk vs. Doi vs. Yoshino (6/24/2012)- ****1/2
> Dragon Kid vs. Ricochet (7/22/2012)- ****1/4
> Tozawa, BxB Hulk & Cyber Kong vs. Mochizuki, Shingo & YAMATO (2/5/2012)- ****1/4
> Jimmy Susumu & Jimmy Kagetora vs. Shingo Takagi & YAMATO (7/22/2012)- ****
> Mochizuki, Fuiji & Gamma vs. Kanda, Horiguchi & Saito (3/4/2012)- ****
> CIMA vs. YAMATO (8/22/2012)- ***3/4
> Doi, Yoshino & PAC vs. BxB Hulk, Kong, Tanizaki vs. Mochizuki, Fuiji & Gamma (7/22/2012)- ***3/4



Did you manage to find a full version of CIMA vs. Akira Tozawa (7/22/2012)? I haven't seen the match, but from what research I've done, I can only find a clipped version. Super hyped to see the match, now even more so given your rating.

EDIT: Never mind! Found it. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xv...-dragon-gate_sport?search_algo=2#.UOhi6KyunAQ For those interested.


----------



## Nervosa

JoeRulz said:


> I hopre you're talking about this match:
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xp...-dragon-gate_sport?search_algo=2#.UOhYiqwfg1s
> 
> *****1/4*


That's the one all right. **** 1/2 for me.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Is Morishima vs Nagata worth a look?


----------



## ywall2breakerj

EmbassyForever said:


> Is Morishima vs Nagata worth a look?


I saw the whole NOAH show and that was the worst match. By far. Avoid at all costs. Everything else is worth watching I reckon though.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Eh, didn't expected this, lol. Kenta vs Nagata wasn't good too.

Anyway, I'm trying to watch as much as possible MOTYC from 2012, started with the match you talked about..

*KENTA vs Takashi Sugiura - ****-****1/4* 
The match was exactly what you said which is awesome because I'm a fan of this style, why it's not full ****1/4 is because of Sugiura's no-selling after the GTS (Kenta slapped the shit out of him after the GTS but he didn't sold it and just got into slap-fest war with him). The kickout from the GTS was lame but the second was great. The punches were BRUTAL!! Ovreall I enjoyed the match a lot

*Jimmy Susumu & Jimmy Kagetora vs Akira Tozawa & BxB Hulk - ****1/2* 
Fantastic spotfest, the finishing sequence with Hulk and Kagetora (not really sure because it's the first time I saw either him or Susumu) was amazing. I really need to see more of DG, everytime it looks like they have at least two awesome matches in each show, they are a promotion that I defintely want to watch more in 2013.


----------



## ywall2breakerj

People seriously overrate Nagata. He's carriable but he's no ring general. His shtick is fun more often than not and New Japan's full of great workers that get the best out of him.


Sugiura-Marufuji and Shiozaki-KENTA from the same show were both very good, although they didn't hit MOTYC level. Akiyama-MAYBACH was the type of a crazy brawl someone like SEABS would probably enjoy. Botched finish hurt it though.


----------



## Caponex75

For what it's worth, I loved Shiozaki/KENTA. Shiozaki's power coming into display in many moments such as tossing KENTA to the outside, damn near refusing letting him getting to the ropes, and that boss ass reversal to KENTA sandbagging him. The finish was great but I'm almost sure KENTA nearly tore out Go's shoulder. I enjoyed Go vs. KENTA was more than Sugiura/KENTA.


Oh and in no way was Sugiura/KENTA better than their bout last year. That match finished as a high end match of the year for me. a few things I did like though



Spoiler: KENTA/Sugiura



I actually like that it's pretty much canon that it takes 3 GTS to put Sugiura down. I mean he is their longest reigning champion ever and did have to get beaten with this much previously. It kinda annoys me when that wrestler get beat with less sometimes(Not saying that more is allows the better option). The botch nearly hurt the match but quick fix Ankle Lock cured that. Plus the fact he was already in a leg wrap position makes it understandable as to why KENTA couldn't pull out the Game Over this time. There are few things I could of went without though. Namely the first GTS pinfall. I'd rather KENTA not been able to make the pin thus start the strike exchange. The second to last one could of just been passed if you asked me but freaking loved that punch sequence. I really really like that KENTA is the only wrestler that can go blow for blow with the Big Boss and not be just punked out. I remember KENTA even won their hardcore slap exchange in 2009 when Sugiura used to be beating people down like that.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Continue watching as much MOTYC from 2012 as possible.. took the match from Seabs' list (thank you, btw)

*DDT What Are You Doing 2012: Kota Ibushi vs Yuji Hino (c) - ****1/2* 
Really fucking good match, shocked that the match didn't get the hype it desreve here. First time I saw Hino and he was awesome, looked like a boss here and that standing lariat(yep, standing lariat) was amazing (Kota sold it pefrectly). Just an awesome match with Kota beating the odds against the big dude that desreves more hype. In 2013 I'm sure I'll watch more of DDT, they looks like a fun promotion with good wrestlers.

*NJPW 40TH ANNIVERSARY ~ NEW JAPAN LIVE: Hirooki Goto (c) vs Tomohiro Ishii - ***** 
Woo finally watched it. Great war between these two, great strong-style match and the crowd was into it. Wish Ishii will get more singles matches, he's great. Totally loved the headbutts spot, it got great reaction from the crowd.

*40TH ANNIVERSARY YEAR NEW YEAR SHINING SERIES 2012: Suwama Vs Daisuke Sekimoto - ***3/4+* 
Coming into the match I exepcted this to be similar to Sasaki vs Sekimoto from BJW and just batshit insane with 40sick lariats and headbutts but they actually kept things slow and told very good story with great selling. The last minutes were superb and the power-bomb was sick. Great match but not MOTYC in my opinion.


----------



## dk4life

I think these are in order, but this is my top 15 or so, didn't really watch any puro last year, but thats changing this year, I am sure there is some missing thou.

1. CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan - Over The Limit
2. John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar - Extreme Rules
3. The Young Bucks vs Super Smash Brothers - Death To All But Metal - No DQ Match
4. Adam Cole vs. Kyle O'Reilly - Best In The World '12: Hostage Crisis
5. James Storm vs. Bobby Roode - Bound for Glory '12
6. Super Smash Brothers vs The Young Bucks vs Future Shock - PWG Threemendous III - Ladder Match
7. Kurt Angle & A.J Styles vs. Kazarian & Christopher Daniels - Slammiversary '12
8. El Generico & Kenny Omega vs The Young Bucks - Failure to Comunicate
9. Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan - Extreme Rules
10. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - WrestleMania 28
11. The Shield vs. Ryback & Team Hell No - TLC '12
12. Austin Aries vs.Bobby Roode - Destination X '12
13. El Generico vs Kevin Steen - Last Man Standing - Showdown in the Sun Night 1 '12 
14. A.J Styles vs. Christopher Daniels - Last Man Standing - Destination X '12


----------



## EmbassyForever

*Diamond Ring: Shingo Takagi vs Katsuhiko Nakajima - ****1/4+* 
Oh man this was great. I believe this was the first Diamond Ring's main event and the crowd was super hyped for this one. I'm going to watch the Akiyama and Kobashi tag team match only because of the atmosphere tmosphere in this match (imagine how loud the crowd will be in KOBASHI match). The match was great from beginning till the end, very good leg-work from Shingo and Nakajima actually sold it pretty good through the whole match. Just a kick-ass bout that I really enjoyed.

*AJPW 03.02.2012 - Yuji Nagata & Wataru Inoue vs Masayuki Kono & Minoru Tanaka - *****
Ah fuck. This was unbelieveable. Very similar to Laughter7 awesomeness in NJPW but I even enjoyed this MORE. What a match, what a crowd. Nagata is an awesome showman and probably the best in Japan with Suzuki, he worked the hot crowd so well. Inoue is awesome too and not getting enough cradit. I think I'm going to watch this again now. Nagata's post-match dance was hilarousy awesome. This whole thing just was amazing and thankfully very short (10 minutes!!). Here's a link, give it a chance - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhzGJFtpF4g


----------



## Bubz

^^^ That tag match is awesome.

I watched Brock/Cena and Punk/Bryan (OTL) again tonight, and I've settled on ****1/2 for both of them, and imo, they're both up there with the NJPW big three matches from the year.


----------



## Concrete

Did anyone else watch Maka Takanashi vs. Yuji Hino from 5/4?


----------



## seabs

*It's on my catch up list for 2012.*


----------



## djmathers1207

Still haven't watched everything yet to make a list. What matches from each company would you recommend?

BTW: Just watched American Wolves vs. Bobby Fish/Kyle O'Reilly from Final Battle. Good to nearly great match
***3/4-****


----------



## seabs

*Go back a few pages for comprehensive lists. Mine and Bubz's are really comprehensive and Cactus has one on the first page that he may or not have updated.*


----------



## djmathers1207

what page number/s?


----------



## Rah

enlightenedone9 said:


> Did anyone else watch Maka Takanashi vs. Yuji Hino from 5/4?


Yep, loved it.

I can't find my write-up for it, sadly, but I had it at ****. I did not like the Ibushi/Hino match, that Seabs loved, as much however.


----------



## Concrete

Rah said:


> Yep, loved it.
> 
> I can't find my write-up for it, sadly, but I had it at ****. I did not like the Ibushi/Hino match, that Seabs loved, as much however.


YES!  I don't remember seeing many people looking at it and that confused the blazes out of me.


----------



## wildpegasus

Well KENTA vs Sugiua is my new fav MOTY from what I've seen. Richards vs Elgin is up there too.

Fantastic, fantastic match.


----------



## Bubz

Very surprised at the KENTA/Sugiura love, it was bad imo.


----------



## MF83

Ishii vs Makabe from 12/23 is facking great and something you should go out of your way to see. ****+


----------



## Kid Kamikaze10

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xwm4cv_togi-makabe-vs-tomohiro-ishii-njpw_sport#.UPBae29EHpQ


----------



## seabs

*I WILL get everything watched by the end of the month.*

*Rich Swann vs AR Fox vs Star Man vs The Dynamite Sensation vs Lucifer Darksyde vs Apollyon - PWS 14.09.2012*
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PelMZG2iFUk

What do you get when take 4 flippy dudes and two atheltic fatties and stick them all in a match together? You get this and this is fucking awesome. Apollyon is the star of this. Fatty who'll throw flippy dudes around in nasty ways and flip around the place himself. Suicide dive was awesome and the double chokeslam/rib breaker combo had me freaking out. Lucifer Darksyde isn't a typo. Somebody legit came up with the name Lucifer Darksyde. Fatties who can flip around are the best. TDS cuts a promo before about being out for 2 years and it's pretty easy to see why given some of the bumps he takes. Star Man is super goofy but he takes a nutty dive in the middle that the crowd go crazy for. Camera work is naf and Star Man ends up diving into oblivion off his dive. Best spotfest of 2012? Maybe. Tons of fun._

******

*Jerry Lawler & Brian Christopher vs Derrick King & Precious - WFW 02.06.2012*
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pxp2imB-lXs

One word - FUN. Two words - Click link. Three words - Get this watched._

*Kevin Steen vs Eddie Kingston - ROH Boiling Point*
_Why the hell didn't this get more appreciation when it happened? Thought this was brilliant and a wonderful change of pace from your normal ROH match. Both guys reaction to the match being made No DQ was great. Bobby Cruise with no jacket for this match? Must mean serious business. Match is cut into two halves. First half is a really great no nonsense brawl. Kingston taking Corino out from the off was great to rule out the numbers advantage. Nigel has so much fun at Corino getting taken out while he's doing commentary. Nigel's great as usual in this and gets everything over like nobody else could. They actually took this guy OFF commentary. Table spot that leads to the angle is done really well. Can't believe I haven't see that spot done with the table that way around before. The struggle for the spot was brilliant too and I totally brought the backdrop tease. Kingston sells the spot magnificently and it allows Steen the perfect chance to mock Kingston on the mic. Glad he brought up the idiocy of taking Kingston out the long way past all the equipment. Wished they'd shown more of Kingston talking to the refs while he was down. It's such a tiny thing but it added so much to the match for me. Really subtle but believable and gets the injury angle over better than screaming in pain for ten minutes. LARRY SWEENEY THINKS YOUR A FUCKING PUSSY was amazing and the perfect catalyst for giving Kingston a second wind and restarting the match. Kingston keeps the selling up which was great. F-5 kickout was a brilliant finish tease. They get the right mix of doing enough teases of a finish without kicking it out of all sorts to no reaction like other ROH matches. ROH MOTY for sure._

*****1/4*

*Big Show vs Sheamus - Lumberjack Match - Raw 24.12.2012*
_Thought this just nudged ahead of their HIAC match based on the added fun. You still get Show working great as a dominant monster and another fun finishing stretch between these two but the early parts are more entertaining. Lumberjack stip for once adds to the match with some fun spots. Show singing while layin the pain on Sheamus ruled too._

******

*John Cena vs Alberto Del Rio - Miracle on 34th Street Fight - Raw 24.12.2012*
_Goofy and whacky as fuck but I had so much fun with it. Not what I'd call a MOTY by workrate standards but certainly by pure entertainment standards. The presents shtick is incredibly goofy but the right side of goofy to be a blast of fun. Bowling ball spot looked like a bitch to be on the end of. Finish is wonderful too, especially Ricardo's reaction to Santa being alive only to get laid out by Santa's sack. FUN._

*Minoru Suzuki vs TAKA Michinoku - K-DOJO 13.11.2012*
_Great to see TAKA in something less goofy and more serious. Matwork in this is really great. It's basically a Suzuki squash but it's still TAKA and TAKA's great in everything he does. All his attempts at getting into the match before the eventual comeback set it up perfectly for when he finally does take advantage of the opening and they have a neat little run at the end. Anyone who's a fan of either will enjoy this._

******


----------



## Bubz

I literally had no fucking idea Steen/Kingston actually happened in ROH! Must see that right now!


----------



## Chismo

Actually, just watched Steen/King yesterday, lol. It was good, but the booking bugged me big time. It dragged the match. There's no reason why a ref wouldn't call for TKO in situations like that. Pointless stuff is pointless. Two or three really nice hardcore spots, and that's it really. Visually, this was a nice match. But nothing else. I appreciate what they tried to accomplish with the injury angle, but the execution wasn't that good. King's selling was excellent, of course. ***

Doesn't even touch Cole/O'Reilly II or Steen/Davey II.


----------



## Obfuscation

Steen vs Kingston in ROH was ok. I liked it, but nothing to go bonkers over. I liked the Chikara match a hair more.


----------



## seabs

*Togi Makabe vs Tomohiro Ishii - NJPW 23.12.2012*
_Put the end of this onto the rest of the Tanaka/Ishii match and you'll have one hell of match. This is these two working the match you'd expect from these two at a good standard until Ishii decides to take it up a gear and make his stamp on the match. The final few minutes of this are just incredible and without trying to degrade Makabe, it's all down to Ishii and easy it is to get behind him as the underdog who goes down but never goes down easily. The trading lariats sequence was really great and Ishii's selling showing the gradual demise after each blow was a thing of beauty. Crowd really get into it after this sequence too and Korakuen behind underdog Ishii is a faultless formula. If you wanna see how you do a dramatic kickout at one then Ishii's kickout at one here is exactly how you do it. Popped my collar after Ishii's lariat. Lovin how Ishii's getting more exposure recently from working big tags in the Tag League and two big singles matches in Korakuen with this and the upcoming Tanaka match. I'm just dreaming of how great Ishii in a G1 could be this. This year. Please._

****3/4*

*Minoru Suzuki vs Jushin Liger - NJPW 23.12.2012*
_Geez, Liger's face looks really old without the full mask on. This is basically worked shoot style rather than your usual New Japan style but it's these two and they make that work. Similar to the TAKA/MiSu match in layout with Suzuki dominant for the majority of the match on the mat until the Jr. gets an opening they take advantage of. There's a little less depth to this one though but the work is more focused. Suzuki targeting the leg was great and matched in quality by Liger's selling. Loved the attack on the floor. Big problem I have with some lucha matwork is how co-operative it can be but they fight for every hold here and it's easy to get invested in. Liger's shoot rolling kicks looked pretty bad. Suzuki might very well be Puro WOTY. Probably give Okada the edge but Suzuki really isn't far behind. Tons of variety at all spots on the card, reliably consistent and delivered big time in his two main events with one of the best individual performances all year._

****3/4*


----------



## Ali Dia

Makabe/Ishil was fun as hell. Time to go on an Ishil kick I guess. Gotta do something before uni starts up again.


----------



## rafz

My last views of the year:

DDT
_Kota Ibushi vs. El Generico - Max Bump 04/05_
******
_El Generico vs. Kota Ibushi - 30/09_
******

NJPW 20/05
_Hirooki Goto vs. Tomohiro Ishi_
*****1/2*

*PWG*
_The Young Bucks vs. Super Smash Brothers - NO DQ Match - Death to All But Metal_
******
_Super Smash Brothers vs. The Young Bucks vs. Future Shock - Ladder Match - PWG Threemendous III_
*****3/4*

NOAH Global League
_KENTA vs. Takeshi Morishima - 20/11_
*****1/4*
_Jun Akiyama vs. Takashi Sugiura - 20/11_
******
_KENTA vs. Takashi Sugiura - 23/11_
******


----------



## seabs

*Young Bucks vs Roderick Strong & Eddie Edwards - PWG Mystery Vortex*
_Chalk another one up for the Young Bucks. They're so fucking great. Best act of 2012? Strong and Edwards is just what both guys needed. Allows them both to just stiff opponents which is where they're best at. This is pretty workratey but when you get it right it's awesome and this was awesome. Even the trading kicks sequence worked much better than usual._

*****1/4*

*El Generico vs Rich Swann - PWG Mystery Vortex*
_Maybe the minimum I'd want from a Generico/Swann match but at least I still a Generico/Swann match so I'm happy. Loved Generico playing the grumpy vet against the new kid. He works this role every now and again and he's so great in it considering how far it is from his normal comfort zone. _

****3/4*

*Kevin Steen vs Adam Cole - Guerrilla Warfare Match - PWG Mystery Vortex*
_Hell of a battle. Can genuinely say this felt like two guys going to war to settle their rivalry and neither would come out unscathed but one would end up winning somehow. Hell of a battle. Steen destroying the life out of Cole was a great introduction to set the tone of the match. Cole took a beating and a half in this and took everything like a total pro. Dug how Steen controlled the majority of the match and established all the dominance. Kept him looking strong and made Cole even easier to hate for getting out of it with the belt. Cole's face earlier in the show when the stip is added is glorious too. Liked how they went for a more of a chaotic battle than a hardcore match with weapon spots. Tower of chairs spot is scary as hell and a rare case of where them taking time to set it up actually added to insanity of the spot by building the extra level of holy shit to the spot each time. I've seen so many hardcore matches that hardcore spots tend not to get a big reaction from these days because what was OMG when I first saw the spot done wears off pretty quick and you don't see many original spots anymore that are holy shit spots. The tower of chairs spot got a MASSIVE reaction from me watching it and it looked NASTY. Really liked Steen having the jug of tacks ready at the start of the show as a measure of how far he'll go if need be. Finish felt a bit flat given what they went through earlier. If you're gonna have big spots before that like they did have then that finish is a bit of a downfall from the previous peak in the match. Biggest spot should tend to be the finish in matches like this. I guess tacks are a big spot to some though. Again, maybe just a case of seeing so many tacks spots and them falling into chair shot territory for me. Steen drinking the tacks and then spitting them at Cole was classic Steen mind. _

*****1/4*


----------



## Bruce L

*Go Shiozaki & Akitoshi Saito vs. Takashi Sugiura & Naomichi Marufuji (GHC Tag Team Titles, 12-9)*

I give very few fucks about NOAH nowadays, but I was excited when I heard that Maruguira won the tag titles (I loved their all-too-brief run as a team in '07-'08), so I decided to check this out. Actually quite good; best GHC heavyweight tag match in quite a while. I've been saddened by Marufuji's seeming to not have "it" anymore in singles matches since returning from his latest injury, but he can still deliver in tags, and did so here in spades. Not a classic, but I'm comfortable calling it a low-end MOTYC. ★★★½


----------



## WOOLCOCK

*Finlay vs Sami Callihan III, EVOLVE 11 (4/13/12)*

Excellent match, though hard to say if I preferred it to the 2011 encounter. Thought the way they worked a more even and closely contested contest was a nice change of pace and there was enough struggle and fight for every bit of control that it came off like an authentic scrap instead of a plodding encounter with no decisive advantage being displayed. Opening few minutes are insane with Finlay hitting a disgusting headbutt which floors Sami & draws blood immediately on impact, then proceeding to beat the piss out of him on the floor including a nasty apron shot and a turnbuckle bump that sounded horribly painful. Loved how a Sami headbutt which momentarily caught Finlay off guard led to his takedown and attempt to ground Sami and keep control from that position, and I liked the way Sami fought to prevent Finlay getting a hold of the leg and slowly transitioning into his forearm smash to a tied up Finlay. Finlay's immediate selling after this was really subtle but still excellent, shaking the cobwebs loose and looking flustered even though he was able to catch an unsuspecting Callihan with a forearm and regain slight control.

Thought Callihan bumped and sold really well throughout and always made himelf look helpless and in complete agony which really added to his plight and consistent flurries of little shots trying to create an opening. This was typified in the setup for his dive with him eating a few bumps before managing to catch Finlay off guard and transition to the dive which Finlay took a dangerous looking bump off of by falling directing back into the seats. The setup to the spot and resulting dive was the first bit of control Sami had managed after being largely on the defensive so it was great to see his extended selling of the prior beating play into Finlay being able to throw him to the floor as he tried to climb the turnbuckle to once again force Callihan back into working from beneath Finlay. The match really takes off here with Finlay punting a helpless Sami in the spine before focusing on the leg with his patented bodyslam into the ropes spot followed by a unique approach in rattling Sami's leg off the ring post. Finlay was his typical aggressive self in the workover, really torquing and abusing Sami to relentless degrees including another vicious headbutt with Sami prone on the top rope and it made Callihan's eventual counter into the superkick to the knee spot feel like a potential match winning blow and I loved Sami immediately attempting the stretch muffler only for Finlay to once again find a counter and kick Sami through the ropes onto the announce table.

I didn't like Sami's kickout at one after the celtic cross but truth be told I didn't mind the way they paced the next few kickouts. The two celtic crosses in succession felt like a decisive match ender and worked as a genuine nearfall, and the way Sami fought to escape the tombstone, only to eat a nasty bump off the short arm lariat felt like a classic puro sequence where you sense the end is near and Sami was just delaying the inevitable which made his kickout of the tombstone (a nice callback to the finish of the 2011 match) even more heroic and purposeful. Truth be told I thought the next sequence was the weakest of the match, as the double boot knockdown spot felt wasted in being done 3 times over, though it did play nicely into the final sequence with Finlay going for a backslide, still feeling the effects of the boot and being caught by a stretch muffler...only to kick Sami twice in the face before a beautiful payoff to the earlier legwork by kicking him in the knee and transitioning immediately into a cross armbreaker the minute Sami collapsed on the mat for the submission.

Overall a very well layed out match with a great Finlay performance in control, adding his usual subtle spots as well as vicious offence and selling very well in the few times he was called to (loved his slight hobble after throwing Sami to the floor after the previous dive bump and brief Sami legwork). Sami however might have been the better guy overall. He emoted very well and kept the cartoony facial expressions to a minimum, bumped and sold the pain and beating throughout the match and made his plight look desperate and hopeless and timed all the brief hope spots well enough to make them come off as authentic rather than breaking off any flow to the match. The Finlay legwork eventually playing into the finish after Callihan had done so well to overcome Finlay's offence that won the 2011 match also typified Finlay's resolve and ensured the kickouts progressed the story from the last match with Finlay having to find a new way to slip past Callihan. Wonderful stuff.


----------



## djmathers1207

Kevin Steen vs. El Generico Ladder War IV ****1/4


----------



## blink_41sum_182

PWG Mystery Vortex

Young Bucks vs. Roderick Strong and Eddie Edwards - ****
Kevin Steen vs. Adam Cole - **** 1/4

And Mystery Vortex is now my #1 show of 2012.


----------



## Scavo

*****1/4* for Steen vs. Cole Guerrilla Warfare
****** for both Strong & Edwards tag matches.

Vortex is the show of the fucking year.




djmathers1207 said:


> Kevin Steen vs. El Generico Ladder War IV ****1/4


Wasn't a fan of it. **1/2 for me.


----------



## Certified G

Seabs said:


> *I WILL get everything watched by the end of the month.*
> 
> *Rich Swann vs AR Fox vs Star Man vs The Dynamite Sensation vs Lucifer Darksyde vs Apollyon - PWS 14.09.2012*
> _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PelMZG2iFUk
> 
> What do you get when take 4 flippy dudes and two atheltic fatties and stick them all in a match together? You get this and this is fucking awesome. Apollyon is the star of this. Fatty who'll throw flippy dudes around in nasty ways and flip around the place himself. Suicide dive was awesome and the double chokeslam/rib breaker combo had me freaking out. Lucifer Darksyde isn't a typo. Somebody legit came up with the name Lucifer Darksyde. Fatties who can flip around are the best. TDS cuts a promo before about being out for 2 years and it's pretty easy to see why given some of the bumps he takes. Star Man is super goofy but he takes a nutty dive in the middle that the crowd go crazy for. Camera work is naf and Star Man ends up diving into oblivion off his dive. Best spotfest of 2012? Maybe. Tons of fun._
> 
> ******


Just watched this match on YouTube. Very fun spotfest, that Chokeslam/rib breaker combo was insane, also kinda looked like Starman landed on his head there. (btw is that the same Starman who appeared in a New Jack Face Off shoot?)

I loved how over Starman was in that match, instant heat for AR Fox when he cut off Starman's jump to the outside. Also thought that big spot by Starman on the outside was awesome, as did the crowd judging by their reaction.

Btw I thought The Dynamite Sensation was pretty bad, looked like he (nearly) fucked up 2 of his own moves.

I'd rate it ***3/4 or ****


----------



## DOPA

Kevin Steen vs Adam Cole (PWG Mystery Vortex): **** 1/4
Roderick Strong and Eddie Edwards vs. Super Smash Bros (PWG Mystery Vortex): ****


----------



## WOOLCOCK

*Finlay vs Martin Kirby, SWE Revolution*

Very good match with a fun Finlay showcase sticking out. Liked the basic chain wrestling exchanges early on establishing Finlay's control and dominance in toying with Kirby and I'm always a sucker for the teased clean breakup in the corner. Loved how Finlay gave two clean breaks when he was firmly in control and finding an answer for everything Kirby could throw at him, only to throw Kirby to the floor when he was positioned on the ropes after Kirby had mounted a brief revival and finally controlled Finlay on the mat. Finlay was his typically violent self working over Kirby and I loved him faking out Kirby by kicking his leg out from under him on the apron after injuring his leg moments before with the bodyslam into the ropes. The irish whip into the turnbuckle looked incredibly nasty and I liked how the delay gave Kirby reasonable time to make a spirited mini fightback and take the match into more of a fight. Kirby slamming the guardrail into Finlay's arm, followed by Finlay later transitioning into a short lariat and immediately wrenching his arm in agony was a great little sequence and the finish was really good with Finlay again outsmarting Kirby and immediately hitting the tombstone for the win. Tremendously fun, nice little selling from Finlay, a very basic structure that couldn't fail and a couple of unique spots. Another gem in the Finlay indy tour.


----------



## blink_41sum_182

DDT 12-23-2012

El Generico vs. Kenny Omega - ****


----------



## seabs

*Daisuke Sekimoto & Ryuji Ito vs Kazuki Hashimoto & Masashi Otani - BJW 04.01.2012*
_Hashimoto is the worls greatest. If there was a guy like this at the bottom of the WWE roster then he'd be one of the hottest prospects going. This is exactly what you want it to be. Otani stands on the apron because he's shit and Ito and Sekimoto destroy Hash. Hash getting destroyed is the best thing going btw so you can't beat them two tearing him to pieces. Hash is genuinely off his rocker but all the best wrestling characters are. He's the sort of fuckbrain who'll lean into strikes because he likes getting hit rather than to get something over and will look genuinely shocked when he kicks out of something. Hashimoto greatness. Automatic greatness._

******

*Daisuke Sekimoto & Yuji Okabayashi vs Kazuki Hashimoto & Masashi Otani - BJW 27.03.2012*
_More of the same? YES PLEASE._

******

*Daisuke Sekimoto, Yuji Okabayashi, Yoshihito Sasaki & Shinya Ishikawa vs Kazuki Hashimoto, Takumi Tsukamoto, Masashi Otani & Hideyoshi Kamitani - Elimination Tag Match - BJW 17.04.2012*
_This was the pick of the bunch. Big Japan's the best thing going when it divides the pros and the rookies up and have them go against each other. Here the rookies all get tortured and it's amazing. This aint no lets do loads of pretty moves on the young guys either. This is stomp them dry bullying. Shinya looks like he has so much fun in this role having recently been promoted from victim to bully. Kamitani is your most basic level jobber with a pair of trunks and boots and nothing else. He has one of the best underdog performances you will have seen all of 2012 in this though. Seriously incredible performance. Awesome moment when he starts slapping Sekimoto out of nowhere and actually gets him down. Really liked how they followed it up with him trying to sneak a pin rather than tagging out because he's a total rookie. This is like his 2nd or 3rd match ever too which is even more amazing. Everyone works really stiff in this, even the rookies and that makes it another level of great. Okabayashi is the stand out star of the pros team as he was all year. Tsukamoto really fucking lays the slaps into Sekimoto and it was absolutely glorious watching him put everything into slapping the skin of Sekimoto's face. Rookies stealing an elimination via the top rope rule was neat. Shame Okabayashi had to be the one to leave though. Comes down to Hashimoto going 3 on 1 with the rest of the pros and by now you should realise where that goes. To the fucking stars. Called Hashimoto having a breakout year at the end of 2012. I was right in the sense he's had a ton of amazing showings, just a shame that Big Japan didn't give him more exposure as the year drew out. This year. Please. Send him all over Japan to get the shit kicked out of him and steal Shinjiro Otani's moveset. One of the strongest Big Japan outings of 2012 for sure and that's a bold compliment._

*****+*


----------



## djmathers1207

DDT

Kenny Omega vs. El Generico ****-****1/2

AJPW

Kenny Omega vs. Hiroshi Yamato 7/22 [not sure of the date] ****


----------



## EmbassyForever

*PWG Mystery Vortex 2012:* 
Young Bucks vs Roderick Strong and Eddie Edwards - ***3/4
Super Smash Bros vs RockNess Monsters - ***3/4
Roderick Strong and Eddie Edwards vs Super Smash Bros - ***3/4
Adam Cole vs Kevin Steen - ****1/2


----------



## djmathers1207

Rewatching some TNA matches from last year

Slammiversary
AJ Styles/Kurt Angle vs. Christopher Daniels/Kazarian ****1/4
Austin Aries vs. Samoa Joe ****

Sacrifice
Austin Aries vs. Bully Ray **** [I still don't get why people give this match **** and higher]


----------



## Alan4L

Updated for 1/17 (New additions in bold) 

Including Dec 2011, Observer style. 

*WWE: *
The Undertaker vs. Triple H (Hell In A Cell) (4/1) *****
Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena (4/29) ****3/4
Daniel Bryan vs. CM Punk (5/20) ****1/2
Daniel Bryan vs. Seamus (2/3 Falls) (4/29) ****1/2
CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho (Chicago Street Fight) (4/29) ****1/2
Brock Lesnar vs. HHH (8/19) ****1/2
CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho (4/1) ****1/2
CM Punk vs. John Cena (9/16) ****1/2
The Rock vs. John Cena (4/1) ****1/4
CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio vs. The Miz (TLC) (12/18 ) ****1/4
Dolph Ziggler vs. John Cena (11/8 ) ****
Dolph Ziggler vs. Kofi Kingston (9/24) ****
Dolph Ziggler vs. Zack Ryder (12/18 ) ****
Dolph Ziggler vs. Kofi Kingston (3/8 ) ****
Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan (Street Fight) (7/30) ****
Sheamus vs. Tensai (8/3) ****

*Puro: *
Kazuchika Okada vs. Tetsuya Naito (3/4) (NJPW) *****
Takagi/YAMATO vs. Fujii/Mochizuki (9/23) (DG) *****
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Minoru Suzuki (10/8 ) (NJPW) *****
Kazuchika Okada vs. Karl Anderson (8/12) (NJPW) ****3/4
Kazuchika Okada vs. Karl Anderson (10/8 ) (NJPW) ****3/4
Kazuchika Okada vs. Tetsuya Naito (8/3) (NJPW) ****3/4
Kenou vs. Hayato Jr. Fujita (6/3) (M-Pro) ****3/4
YAMATO vs. Akira Tozawa vs. Shingo Takagi vs. Naruki Doi vs. Masato Yoshino vs. BxB Hulk (6/24) (DG) ****3/4
Masato Tanaka vs. Tomoaki Honma (12/23) (NJPW) ****3/4
Blood Warriors vs. Junction Three (1/19) (DG) ****3/4
Yuji Nagata vs. Masayuki Kono (Cage Death Match) (3/20) (AJPW) ****3/4
Kazuchika Okada vs. Hirooki Goto (5/3) (NJPW) ****3/4
Kazuchika Okada vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi (6/16) (NJPW) ****3/4
Hirooki Goto vs. Tomohiro Ishii (5/20) (NJPW) ****3/4
*KENTA vs. Takashi Sugiura (11/23) (NOAH) ****1/2*
Kota Ibushi vs. Kenny Omega (8/18 ) (DDT) ****1/2
Takeshi Morishima vs. Go Shiozaki (7/22) (NOAH) ****1/2
Yuji Hino vs. Kota Ibushi (6/24) (DDT) ****1/2
Prince Devitt vs. KUSHIDA (5/27) (NJPW) ****1/2
Prince Devitt vs. PAC (6/6) (NJPW) ****1/2
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Hirooki Goto (4/8 ) (NJPW) ****1/2
Taiyo Kea vs. Suwama (5/7) (AJPW) ****1/2
Susumu Yokosuka vs. Dragon Kid (5/10) (DG) ****1/2
Akira Tozawa vs. Naruki Doi (5/10) (DG) ****1/2
Kenny Omega vs. Shuji Kondo (3/20) (AJPW) ****1/2
Jun Akiyama vs. Keiji Muto (3/20) (AJPW) ****1/2
Sekimoto/Okabayashi vs. Suwama/Soya (3/20) (AJPW) ****1/2
Katsuhiko Nakajima vs. Shingo Takagi (2/11) (DR) ****1/2
Tozawa/Hulk vs. The Jimmys (3/4) (DG) ****1/2
CIMA vs. PAC (3/4) (DG) ****1/2
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Kazuchika Okada (2/12) (NJPW) ****1/2
Jun Akiyama vs. Takao Omori (2/3) (AJPW) ****1/2
Kenny Omega vs. Kaz Hayashi (2/3) (AJPW) ****1/2
Suwama vs. Daisuke Sekimoto (1/2) (AJPW) ****1/2
Katsuhiko Nakajima vs. Atsushi Aoki (1/29) (NOAH) ****1/2
Daisuke Sekimoto vs. Yoshihito Sasaki (3/26) (BJW) ****1/2
Shingo Takagi vs. Masaaki Mochizuki (9/14) (DG) ****1/2
Masato Tanaka vs. Go Shiozaki (8/5) (Z1) ****1/2
Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Hirooki Goto (10/8 ) (NJPW) ****1/2
Kota Ibushi vs. Low Ki (10/8 ) (NJPW) ****1/2
Kota Ibushi vs. KUSHIDA (9/7) (NJPW) ****1/2
Low Ki vs. Kota Ibushi (7/29) (NJPW) ****1/2
The Jimmys vs. The Veteran Army (12 Man Elimination Tag) (11/8 ) (DG) ****1/2
Shin-Imamiya Festival Gate Trio vs. World-1 International vs. The Jimmys (11/17) DG ****1/2
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Naomichi Marufuji (8/5) (NJPW) ****1/2
Shingo Takagi vs. Akira Tozawa (11/8 ) (DG) ****1/4
Hiroyoshi Tenzan vs. Shinsuke Nakamura (8/12) (NJPW) ****1/4
Mochizuki/Fujii vs. Susumu/Kanda (10/21) (DG) ****1/4
Togi Makabe vs. Tetsuya Naito (8/5) (NJPW) ****1/4
Kazuchika Okada vs. Shinsuke Nakamura (8/5) (NJPW) ****1/4
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Yujiro Takahashi (11/11) (NJPW) ****1/4
Hirooki Goto vs. Kazuchika Okada (11/11) (NJPW) ****1/4
Prince Devitt vs. Low Ki (11/11) (NJPW) ****1/4
Dragon Kid vs. Ricochet (5/5) (DG) ****1/4
El Generico vs. Kota Ibushi (10/21) (DDT) ****1/4
BxB Hulk vs. Kota Ibushi (6/5) (DDT/DG) ****1/4
TenKoji vs. Emblem (7/8 ) (Z1) ****1/4
Yuji Nagata vs. KENTA (11/17) (NOAH) ****1/4
Hiroshi Yamato vs. Kenny Omega (10/7) (AJPW) ****1/4
Hiroshi Yamato vs. Hikaru Sato (9/23) (AJPW) ****1/4
Hirooki Goto vs. Kazuchika Okada (8/10) (NJPW) ****1/4
Yuji Okabayashi vs. Seiya Sanada (9/8 ) (AJPW) ****1/4
CIMA vs. YAMATO (8/22) (DG) ****1/4
Masato Tanaka vs. Daisuke Sekimoto (8/5) (Z1) ****1/4
Mad Blankey vs. The Jimmys (9/23) (DG) ****1/4
Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Hirooki Goto (8/3) (NJPW) ****1/4
Daisuke Sekimoto vs. Yuji Hino (7/8) (K-Dojo) ****1/4
Shingo Takagi vs. Jimmy Susumu (7/1) (DG) ****1/4
Naomichi Marufuji vs. KENTA (7/22) (NOAH) ****1/4
Aoki/Suzuki vs. Marufuji/Ishimori (6/13) (NOAH) ****1/4
Aoki/Suzuki vs. Marvin/Super Crazy (7/22) (NOAH) ****1/4
Tanaka/Hidaka vs. Marufuji/Ishimori (5/16) (Z1) ****1/4
Katsuhiko Nakajima vs. Yoshinobu Kanemaru (5/9) (NOAH) ****1/4
Hashimoto/Sekimoto vs. Hashimoto/Sato (4/24) (Z1) ****1/4
Miyahara/Sasaki vs. Shiozaki/Honda (4/29) (NOAH) ****1/4
Big Van Walter vs. Yoshihito Sasaki (5/5) (BJW) ****1/4
Walter/Sekimoto vs. Sasaki/Okabayashi (4/28 ) (BJW) ****1/4
Nakajima/Morishima vs. Akiyama/Saito (4/22) (NOAH) ****1/4
Suzuki/Aoki vs. Marvin/Super Crazy (3/18 ) (NOAH) ****1/4
Tetsuya Naito vs. Satoshi Kojima (4/1) (NJPW) ****1/4
Kenny Omega vs. Shigehiro Irie (4/1) (DDT) ****1/4
The Jimmys vs. Hulk/Tozawa (12/1) (DG) ****1/4
Tozawa/Hulk vs. Yoshino/Mochizuki (1/15) (DG) ****1/4
Kenny Omega vs. Hiroshi Yamato (1/3) (AJPW) ****1/4
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Minoru Suzuki (1/4) (NJPW) ****1/4
Aoki/Suzuki vs. Harada/Kotoge (1/22) (NOAH) ****1/4
Nakamura/Takahashi/Tanaka vs. Anderson/Goto/Tanahashi (3/4) (NJPW) ****1/4
Apollo 55 vs. No Remorse Corps (2/12) (NJPW) ****1/4
Hulk/Tozawa/Kong vs. Takagi/YAMATO Mochizuki (2/5) (DG) ****1/4
Blood Warriors vs. Junction Three (Yoshida Elimination Match) (2/9) (DG) ****1/4
Daisuke Sekimoto vs. Yuji Okabayashi (2/26) (BJW) ****1/4
Yoshihito Sasaki vs. Yuji Okabayashi (6/21) (BJW) ****1/4
Low Ki vs. Ryusuke Taguchi (6/10) (NJPW) ****1/4
PAC vs. Ryusuke Taguchi (6/10) (NJPW) ****1/4
Tanahashi/Naito/Goto vs. Nakamura/Okada/Ishii (6/10) (NJPW) ****1/4
Kengo Mashimo vs. TAKA Michinoku (4/8 ) (K-Dojo) ****1/4
*Miyamoto/Kodaka vs. Okabyashi/Ishikawa (11/24) (BJW) ****1/4
Daisuke Sekimoto vs. Yuji Hino (11/13) (K-Dojo) ****1/4
Hayato “Jr” Fujita vs. The Great Sasuke (11/10) (M-Pro) ****1/4
Yuji Nagata vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi (8/11) (NJPW) ****1/4
Tomohiro Ishii vs. Masato Tanaka (11/19) NEVER) *****
CIMA/Dragon Kid vs. Maraha Isappa (6/10) (DG) ****
Shinjiro Ohtani vs. Daichi Hashimoto (3/25) (Z1) ****
Sekimoto/Otani vs. Shinobu/Ishikawa (6/21) (BJW) ****
Sekimoto/Okabayashi vs. Kondo/Hayashi (5/27) (AJPW) ****
World-1 International vs. Madogiwa no Windows (6/7) (DG) ****
Sekimoto/Okabayashi vs. SMOP (7/1) (AJPW/NJPW) ****
Okada/Nakamura vs. Suwama/Kondo (7/1) (AJPW/NJPW) ****
Sekimoto/Okabayashi vs. Sasaki/Ishikawa (5/25) (BJW) ****
Tanahashi/Naito vs. Tanaka/Takahashi (5/3) (NJPW) ****
Tanahashi/Naito/Tonga/Goto vs. Nakamura/Okada/Ishii/YOSHI-HASHI (6/6) (NJPW) ****
Genki Horiguchi vs. Akira Tozawa (5/19) (DG) ****
Low Ki vs. Prince Devitt (5/3) (NJPW) ****
Low Ki vs. Ryusuke Taguchi (5/27) (NJPW) ****
Shingo Takagi vs. YAMATO (5/10) (DG) ****
BxB Hulk vs. Masato Yoshino (5/10) (DG) ****
El Generico vs. Kota Ibushi (5/4) (DDT) ****
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Karl Anderson (4/8 ) (NJPW) ****
Morishima/Nakajima vs. Yone/Marufuji (4/29) (NOAH) ****
Edwards/Cabana vs. Sasaki/Miyahara (4/22) (NOAH) ****
Suwama vs. Daisuke Sekimoto (5/4) (AJPW) ****
Suwama vs. Yuji Nagata (5/5) (AJPW) ****
Kana vs. Shuri (2/19) (SMASH) ****
GET WILD vs. Dark Ozz/Dark Cuervo (3/20) (AJPW) ****
Sekimoto/Okabayashi/Hashimoto vs. Akebono/Hama/Nakanoue (2/2) (BJW) ****
Katsuhiko Nakajima vs. Taiji Ishimori (2/25) (NOAH) ****
Tanaka/Kono vs. Nagata/Inoue (2/3) (AJPW) ****
La Sombra vs. Volador Jr. (1/22) (NJPW) ****
KUSHIDA vs. Mascara Dorada (1/22) (NJPW) ****
Hiroshi Yamato vs. Hikaru Sato (12/4) (AJPW) ****
Sekimoto/Okabayashi vs Suwama/Soya (12/18 ) (BJW) ****
Miyamoto/Kodaka vs. Sasaki/Shinobu (12/18 ) (BJW) ****
Suzuki/Aoki vs. Haste/Nicholls (12/15) (NOAH) ****
Sekimoto/Okabayashi vs. SMOP (1/3) (AJPW) ****
Ozz/Cuervo vs. Sanada/KAI (1/3) (AJPW) ****
Takashi Sugiura vs. Mohammed Yone (1/15) (NOAH) ****
The Jimmys vs. PAC/Dragon Kid (12/20) (DG) ****
Blood Warriors vs. JUNCTION THREE (12/20) (DG) ****
Prince Devitt vs. Rocky Romero (12/23) (NJPW) ****
Yuji Nagata vs. Minoru Suzuki (4/1) (NJPW) ****
Sami Callihan vs. Yoshihito Sasaki (3/26) (BJW) ****
Sabre/Morishima vs. Suzuki/Shiozaki (4/15) (NOAH) ****
Naito/Goto vs. Nakamura/Tanaka (6/16) (NJPW) ****
World-1 International vs. The Jimmys (7/1) (DG) ****
CIMA/Dragon Kid vs. Ricochet/Swann (7/1) (DG) ****
Akiyama/Shiozaki vs. Suwama/Kea (6/17) (AJPW) ****
The Jimmys vs. MAD BLANKEY (2/3 Falls) (8/22) (DG) ****
Okada/Nakamura vs. Anderson/Goto (9/7) (NJPW) ****
TenKoji vs. Killer Elite Squad (10/8 ) (NJPW) ****
Masakatsu Funaki vs. Suwama (9/23) (AJPW) ****
El Generico vs. Kota Ibushi (9/30) (DDT) ****
Shinjiro Ohtani vs. Go Shiozaki (8/5) (Z1) ****
Hirooki Goto vs. Togi Makabe (8/11) (NJPW) ****
Mochizuki/CIMA vs. Maraha Isappa (10/28 ) (DG) ****
Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Karl Anderson (11/11) (NJPW) ****
Katsuhiko Nakajima vs. Masato Tanaka (9/30) (KO) ****

*PWG: *
Super Smash Brothers vs. The Young Buck$ vs. Future Shock (Ladder Match) (7/21) *****
El Generico vs. Ricochet (5/25) ****3/4
Super Smash Brothers vs. The Young Buck$ (No DQ) (5/25) ****3/4
Super Smash Brothers vs. Future Shock (4/21) ****1/2
Super Smash Brothers vs. Generico/Mack (4/21) ****1/2
Appetite For Destruction vs. The Young Buck$ (Guerrilla Warfare) (12/10) ****1/2
Ricochet vs. Michael Elgin (9/2) ****1/2
*Eddie Edwards vs. Michael Elgin (10/27) ****1/2
The Young Buck$ vs. Omega/Generico (10/27) ****1/2*
Ricochet vs. Kevin Steen (9/1) ****1/4
Adam Cole vs. El Generico (9/1) ****1/4
Drake Younger vs. Roderick Strong (9/1) ****1/4
Drake Younger vs. B-Boy (7/21) ****1/4
Kevin Steen vs. Willie Mack (7/21) ****1/4
Roderick Strong vs. TJ Perkins (7/21) ****1/4
El Generico vs. Dick Togo (12/10) ****1/4
Super Smash Brothers vs. The Young Buck$ (4/21) ****1/4
*Davey Richards vs. Sami Callihan (10/27) ****
Kevin Steen vs. Ricocher vs. Michael Elgin (10/27) *****
Willie Mack vs. Sami Callihan (9/1) ****
Strong/Callihan vs. vs. Generico/Mack (4/21) ****
Kevin Steen vs. Sami Callihan (4/21) ****
Fightin’ Taylor Boys vs. RockNES Monsters (4/21) ****
Super Smash Brothers vs. American Wolves (12/10) ****

*DGUSA/EVOLVE*: 
El Generico vs. Samuray Del Sol (9/8 ) ****1/2
CIMA/Ricochet vs. Mochizuki/Susumu (1/27) ****1/2
Akira Tozawa vs. PAC (1/27) ****1/2
Akira Tozawa vs. Masaaki Mochizuki (3/30) ****1/2
Tozawa/Hulk/Low Ki vs. Mochizuki/Ricochet/PAC (3/31) ****1/4
Johnny Gargano vs. Masato Yoshino (3/31) ****1/4
Fit Finlay vs. Sami Callihan (4/13) ****1/4
Gargano/Taylor vs. Ricochet/Yoshino (3/30) ****1/4
AR Fox vs. Sami Callihan (1/27) ****1/4
El Generico vs. Sami Callihan (5/12) ****1/4
CIMA/Fox vs. Generico/Del Sol (7/28 ) ****1/4
Super Smash Brothers vs. Swann/Ricochet (11/3) ****
Johnny Gargano vs. Akira Tozawa (7/28 ) ****
Low Ki vs. Jon Davis (5/12) ****
Johnny Gargano vs. AR Fox (5/12) ****
El Generico vs. Ricochet (5/11) ****
Taylor vs. Swann vs. CIMA vs. Dorado vs. Generico vs. Samuray (3/31) ****
Rich Swann vs. AR Fox (3/30) ****
Masato Yoshino vs. Naruki Doi (1/27) ****
Ronin vs. Super Smash Brothers (1/14) ****


*ROH: *
Kevin Steen vs. Michael Elgin (10/13) ****1/2
Kevin Steen vs. El Generico (Last Man Standing) (3/30) ****1/2
Davey Richards vs. Michael Elgin (3/31) ****1/2
Davey Richards vs. Kevin Steen (5/12) ****1/4
Kevin Steen vs. Steve Corino (No DQ) (12/23) ****

*wXw:*
Big Van Walter vs. Daisuke Sekimoto (3/3) ****1/2
El Generico vs. Tommy End (3/4) ****1/2
Sekimoto/Walter/2Face/Ray vs. Sasaki/Axeman/Beck/Dreissker (3/4) ****1/4
Zack Sabre Jr. vs. Tommy End (3/4) ****
Zack Sabre Jr. vs. Jon Ryan (3/2) ****
Sekimoto/Stahl vs. Dreissker/Walter (3/2) ****
Fit Finlay vs. Sami Callihan (3/2) ****

*Other:*
Toyota/Yoneyama vs. Kuragaki/Bolshoi (9/16) (Chikara) ****1/2
El Hijo del Santo/Villano IV vs. El Hijo del Solitario/Angel Blanco Jr. (2/25) (TODO X EL TODO) ****1/2
El Ligero vs. Akira Tozawa (6/2) (PCW) ****1/2
Styles/Angle vs. Kazarian/Daniels (6/10) (TNA) ****1/2
*Team Steen vs. Team Kingston (Cibernetico) (11/18 ) (Chikara) ****1/2*
AJ Styles vs. Christopher Daniels (7/8) (TNA) ****1/4
Austin Aries vs. Samoa Joe (6/10) (TNA) ****1/4
Alex Shelley vs. Austin Aries (2/12) (TNA) ****1/4
FIST vs. The Young Buck$ (6/2) (Chikara) ****1/4
The Hooligans vs. The London Riots (10/14) (Rev-Pro) ****1/4
Eddie Kingston vs. Jigsaw (5/20) (Chikara) ****1/4
Young Buck$/Bennett vs. The Sendai Girls (9/16) (Chikara) ****1/4
Young Buck$/Bennett vs. The Spectral Envoy (9/16) (Chikara) ****1/4
Mr. Touchdown vs. ACH (8/18 ) (Chikara) ****
Quackenbush/Jigsaw/Toyota vs. The Sendai Girls (9/15) (Chikara) ****
Johnny Gargano vs. Zack Sabre Jr. (8/26) (Rev-Pro) ****
Prince Devitt vs. Noam Dar (8/26) (Rev-Pro) ****
The Bravados vs. The Sendai Girls (5/20) (Chikara) ****
AJ Styles vs. Christopher Daniels vs. Samoa Joe vs. Kurt Angle (Ladder Match) (8/12) (TNA) ****
AJ Styles vs. Christopher Daniels (8/16) (TNA) ****
GEKIDO vs. Chikara (6/2) (Chikara) ****
PAC vs. Brodie Lee vs. Rich Swann vs. Sami Callihan (1/21) (2CW) ****


----------



## topper1

djmathers1207 said:


> Sacrifice
> Austin Aries vs. Bully Ray **** [I still don't get why people give this match **** and higher]


Doesn't understand why people give it **** after giving it **** himself fpalm


----------



## Groovemachine

Still got to watch a bit more NJPW, and I've missed out on quite a few Chikara MOTYCs, but apart from that I think I've seen most of the good stuff. Here's my top 25. Judging by other reactions to my #1 and #2 entries, I think I should go get my flak jacket now...


1. Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin - ROH Showdown in the Sun Night 2 - ****3/4

2. Triple H vs The Undertaker - WWE Wrestlemania XXVIII - ****1/2

3. Super Smash Bros vs The Young Bucks vs Future Shock [Ladder Match] - PWG Threemendous III - ****1/2

4. Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk - WWE Over the Limit 2012 - ****1/2

5. The Shield vs Ryback, Kane & Daniel Bryan [TLC match] - WWE TLC 2012 - ****1/2

6. Chuck Taylor & Johnny Gargano vs Ricochet & Masato Yoshino - DGUSA Open the Ultimate Gate 2012 - ****1/4

7. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho [Chicago Street Fight] - WWE Extreme Rules - ****1/4

8. John Cena vs Brock Lesnar [Extreme Rules Match] - WWE Extreme Rules - ****1/4

9. Kevin Steen vs Adam Cole [Guerrilla Warfare] - PWG Mystery Vortex - ****1/4

10. Super Smash Bros. vs The Young Bucks - PWG Death to all but Metal - ****1/4

11. Dojo Bros vs The Young Bucks - PWG Mystery Vortex - ****1/4

12. Kenny Omega & El Generico vs The Young Bucks - PWG Failure to Communicate - ****1/4

13. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho - WWE Wrestlemania XXVIII - ****1/4

14. El Generico vs Ricochet - PWG Death to all but Metal - ****1/4

15. El Generico vs Kevin Steen [Ladder War] - ROH Final Battle 2012 - ****1/4

16. Michael Elgin vs Davey Richards - PWG BOLA 2012 N1 - ****1/4

17. Kazuchika Okada vs Karl Anderson - NJPW 10.08.12 - ****1/4

18. Super Smash Bros. vs The Young Bucks - PWG DDT4 2012 - ****1/4

19. Super Smash Bros. vs Future Shock - PWG DDT4 2012 - ****1/4

20. Kevin Steen vs El Generico [La Revancha] - ROH Showdown in the Sun Night 1 - ****1/4

21. Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki - NJPW 10.08.12 - ****1/4

22. Kevin Steen vs Michael Elgin - ROH Glory By Honor XI - ****

23. The Rock vs John Cena - WWE Wrestlemania XXVIII - ****

24. Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - WWE Extreme Rules - ****

25. Adam Cole vs Kyle O'Reilly - ROH Best in the World 2012 - ****


----------



## djmathers1207

I didn't consider it a 4 star match no matter how many times I watched it. But, I rewatched it and now I know why


----------



## topper1

djmathers1207 said:


> I didn't consider it a 4 star match no matter how many times I watched it. But, I rewatched it and now I know why


So you didn't consider it a 4 star match no matter how many times you watched it and don't understand how other people think it is but now you rewatched and now you know why:bosh2


----------



## Bubz

:lmao I actually lol'd at that conversation.


----------



## Obfuscation

HE FINALLY GETS IT.


----------



## Last Chancery

I only watched the first and final matches of Mystery Vortex, and I have to say I was fairly impressed. I dug the tag opener between the Dojo Bros and the Bucks, and the final few minutes made the match for me. Fun stuff, and nice to see Edwards and Strong teaming after feuding for a long time in ROH over their world title. So probably ***3/4 for that one. I also somewhat enjoyed the Guerrilla Warfare main event, though after so much violence and brutality, my ability to suspend disbelief wears a little thin. I don't know why but to me, the violence wasn't parsed out too well; it was one heavy hit after another, and by the time I hit the 15-minute mark or so, I began to lose interest. Little things like Steen going around to all four ring posts and slamming Cole into them bugged me, and then when he did it AGAIN with the four consecutive power bombs? Come on, that's overdoing it. It was cartoonish and illogical and it came off more like a video game than what I personally consider pro-wrestling. Don't get me wrong, I dig a good gimmick match as much as the next guy, but when these guys are selling the attacks at minute 20 the same they're doing it at minute two, I take issue.

I don't know. Even though there is little comparing the two, I do compare something like Steen/Cole to, say, Taker/HBK inside Hell in a Cell. In the case of the latter, you had two guys who were so physically and mentally exhausted that they could barely support themselves. The usually jovial Michaels looked like death warmed over, and the usually stoic Undertaker looked spent in every sense. It looked like they just put each other through war, even though they did to each other maybe half of what Steen and Cole did, and in 10 more minutes. It's all about pacing and placement, in my opinion. How fast or slow the action is, and where you choose to place your spots. At the end of a match this violent, I wouldn't expect Steen to be able to walk to the announcer's table and grab a pitcher of thumb tacks, especially when he was just head-dropped AND back-dropped onto two ladders not even five minutes ago.

PWG, great as it is, is like a good drug. They do a good job on one show, so they feel they have to do an even better job the next one. After years upon years of holding to that philosophy, they've almost reached a point where the audiences are expecting too much, which is the reason overkill-heavy matches like Steen vs. Cole exist. As it stands, I'd say maybe ***1/4-3/4 for that match. I know a lot of people like it, but I'm sorry, it's just not for me.


----------



## Scavo

Watched that Aries vs. Ray match yet again. Stays at *****1/2*.


----------



## Groovemachine

Hmm that's a very interesting point you bring up there. It basically asks the question, should we contextualise the careers of wrestlers? Do we assume that Steen, who is frequently involved in hardcore gimmick matches, can withstand more punishment because 'he's used to it'? Was Cole so resilient because he's young and can bounce back? 

As for the 4 ringpost/4 powerbomb spot, I'd disagree about it being illogical. Steen has a history of toying with his opponents, he never takes the shortcut on the route to victory. If he can humiliate/torture/piss off his opponent in any way, he'll do it. And we all know he likes to play the crowd at any given moment, which is often a weakness of his and comes back to bite him in the ass. I viewed that opening section of the match as Steen toying with Cole and pandering to the fans, comfortable in the knowledge that he had Cole's number and could totally dominate him. And he got too cocky, which eventually allowed Cole to regain control. Hey, if we're really going uber into this, one could even say Cole was kinda playing possum, knowing that Steen would let his guard down in playing to the Reseda fans.

I dunno, I'm ranting and looking far too much into this. But it's an interesting point Last Chancery brings up, nonetheless.


----------



## The Rainmaker.

The title was on the line, you're gonna have to damn near kill Kevin Steen to get him to go down, which is Adam Cole did. I don't really see the problem?


----------



## seabs

*Eddie Kingston vs Brodie Lee - CHIKARA It's How You Play The Game*
_Thought this was good but nothing great. Gets a little sloppy at times and with about 5 minutes left I was ready for them to finish it off. _

*Eddie Kingston vs Jigsaw - CHIKARA Aniversario The Ogg and I*
_Man is Jigsaw bad. Nearly everything about him in singles is generally bad but his strikes in this are fucking pathetic and beg the question, why even bother striking with that much force behind them? Lost interest in this about halfway through and nothing regained it. Fuck a dumb CHIKARA_

*Eddie Kingston vs Sara Del Ray - CHIKARA The Great Escape*
_I did like this though. Really good but not great. Liked the start with Kingston just letting Sara take control and almost testing the waters with her. I might have interpreted it the wrong way but I enjoyed it so I'll give it the benefit of the doubt. Sara giving Kingston more then he expected and gaining the upper hand out of it was neat. Loved the smack talking. Felt like a couple on the brink of divorce with serious marriage problems to fight out. I get that Kingston's whole shtick as champ is that he always fights from behind to play to his strengths but I wanted him to have some sort of control segment because Sara is such a natural babyface in this match and really Kingston shouldn't be working from behind for 90% of the match. Arm work was neat but it didn't feel like a major part of the plot of the match. Kingston sells it fine although there are times when you want him to sell it and he neglects it. Nothing I'd flag up as poor though. Loved Del Ray's reactions to her near falls. Not enough people add in awesome stuff like that to their matches to make me smile. Not as high on it as others but really good all the same._

******

*ACH vs Mark Angelosetti - CHIKARA Ring Of Wax*
_Ugh. I love ACH but this sucked. It's what I'd flag up as a total CHIKARA match and no offense to people who enjoy CHIKARA, but I hate nearly everything about CHIKARA. I hate the over-thought gimmicks and I really hate how their movesets have to be completely tailored to stupid gimmicks rather than real life characters. CHIKARA comedy is the wrong sort of goofy. It's just stare and wonder what the point of it is goofy. The touchdown sequence? The fuck was that. That leads me on to Bryce Remsburg. That. Fucking. Cunt. If I could eliminate one character from the history of wrestling from any era from any promotion it'd be him. You're a ref. Do your job as a ref and stop trying to outwork the wrestlers. Refs who instantly go into comedy spots I really hate. My biggest peeve with Bryce is his over selling. Seriously, fuck that shit. I don't need to see a ref do a backward roll into a rolley poley after a 2 count. Sinclair does the same shtick really well because he does it subtly so the focus is still on the wrestlers and not him. Bryce just comes off as a total attention seeking teen who got the shit role in his school project. Ugh. Touchdown really isn't very good as a wrestler either. There's nothing overly bad but he just isn't good at anything, particularly execution judging by this. Isn't even what I'd call "decent"._


----------



## Obfuscation

We flip flopped on one portion of what we disliked about the Touchdown vs ACH match. I don't like ACH. That was my problem with it. Still liked the match though.

I'm biased of course.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

*Finlay vs Sami Callihan, WXW (3/2/12)*

I think overall this is probably the weakest of their three matches, as it was just lacking that extra little something that made the 2 EVOLVE matches feel more special. Perhaps it was the setting and arena feel from the German crowd, but it felt more like them taking their formula match to a new venue rather than them creating a new twist on their chemistry and series. Maybe not the best explanation, but the best I can come up with at this time.

Match is exceptionally violent as you'd expect. Much like the EVOLVE 11 match there's a real struggle for control in the beginning with a number of frantic transitions and strikes to fend off the other with Finlay booting the piss out of Sami into the crowd and both men taking a couple of tough looking apron bumps. They have this ability to make these sorts of 50/50 brawling feel authentic and put over the resilience and toughness in both, rather than it coming off as stop-start and taking away from the flow. Sure enough the middle of the match feels all the more crucial and decisive as both men create openings to try and weaken the other. Callihan works over Finlay's knee and whilst brief its impactful enough coupled with strong Finlay selling that it exposes an outlet for Sami to exploit for the rest of the match. Thought Finlay's desperation punch to the nose during a figure four followed by an immediate counter surge on Callihan's leg was a nice revenge segment and a way for Finlay to control the pace and keep Sami at bay.

Ending stretch feels largely the same as their first match from EVOLVE albeit with a few alterations. Sami's leg and general selling is top notch when he's working underneath as well as when he mounts a comeback, I loved how he and Finlay both used desperation strikes to the injured legs as a basis for cutting them off (such as Finlay kicking the knee out from under Sami to hit a DDT after Callihan got in his face) and there was a neat moment where Callihan literally steps on Finlay's leg as a setup for a hold, nothing groundbreaking but still a smart bit of continuity. Loved Sami's trademark playing possum spot where he lulls Finlay into a delayed backdrop suplex and once again they had a strong finishing sequence with Finlay getting the crucial advantage, hitting consecutive Celtic Crosses to put Callihan seemingly away, then hitting a stiff as heck lariat which Callihan bumped beautifully for as the prequisite for the Tombstone finish.


*Finlay vs Johnny Kidd, WXW (3/4/12)*

WOS rules makes for a very classic Finlay bout compared to his more rugged and violent older year matches. Loved how light hearted the match was with a good injection of comedy during lull spells, made any time where Finlay got a bit more serious and more like his usual self as evidence of the progression of the bout and how Kidd's superior wrestling had irked Finlay enough to awake him from his shell. Kidd had some great and truly unique counters in and out of submissions and I loved him using a staple of British escapes/good sportsmanship moments, felt like a guy basically giving a complete WOS demonstration. They timed each fall very well, with Kidd scoring the first having controlled Finlay largely throughout the first two rounds and catching him with a quick pin in the third with Finlay creating distance and trying to quicken the pace to get ahead in the match. Finlay's continued aggression eventually proving too much for Kidd to handle was a good payoff of the first fall by highlighting how Finlay could control Kidd whilst displaying Kidd also had the ability to counter Finlay's more aggressive offence. Final fall is largely built on basic chain wrestling and Finlay again trying to create distance and employ a striking game only for him to use a very smart wrestling counter to put Kidd away. If you're a WOS fan you'll love this as Kidd in particular has numerous traits of the style, from the comedy, to the sportmanship to the clean and intricate chain wrestling. Dancin' Fit Finlay was a beautiful moment to behold as well.


*Sami Callihan vs Alex Colon, CZW Best Of The Best (4/14/12)*

Rapid 100mph war which had its upsides and downsides. The advantage was both men committed to a short sprint crammed full with hard strikes, impactful looking spots and looking to end the match there and then, rather than wrestling a long match before the final. The downside to this was that some of the more impressive and impactful looking bumps essentially had to be diminished in importance because the length and pace of the match didn't allow them to properly sell and show lasting damage, Callihan's bump off the death valley driver on the apron not being enough to keep him down for more than 15 seconds being the obvious point of call here. I didn't mind the stuff when they got into the ring. It didn't feel as heated as the brawling on the floor but it came off more as both men going for the kill via their signature offence rather than continuing to fight. Dug the finish of Colon's arrogance in putting Sami in his own submission as backfiring with Callihan having the perfect counter to it, though I thought it came off rather sudden in that he went from beating the crap out of Callihan to suddenly mocking him. Maybe the sort of finish that would work better in a match with greater length to allow them to play up Colon's arrogance. It was well executed and I see the reasoning behind it, but I'm thinking a more impactful and 'sudden' finish may have worked better given the 7 minutes of non-stop action that preceeded it.


----------



## The Rainmaker.

Since CHIKARA is the topic at hand here's my CHIKARA 2012 MOTYC's


Kingston vs Brodie: ****
SDR vs Generico: ****
Joshi Tag at Anniversaro: **** 1/4
Kingston vs Jigsaw: **** 1/2
Akuma vs Icarus: ****
Bucks vs FIST: **** 1/2
SDR vs Kingston: **** 1/2
ACH vs Touchdown: **** 1/4
Toyota/Yoneyama vs Bolshoi/Kuragaki: ****
Envoy vs Bucks: **** 1/4


----------



## smitlick

Disappointed you didn't enjoy Kingston vs Jigsaw... Glad you liked King/SDR though... Was definitely my favourite Chikara match from last year.

Also if anyones interested later this week (i think) the 2012 DKP Annual will be released over at F4W/WO Board and probably made available for all I'd assume. I might have made an appearance with an article on Eddie Kingston and his 2012 in Chikara. Would love feedback if anyone reads it.


----------



## Obfuscation

It's still a tie for me between Kingston vs Del Rey & Kingston vs Brodie as my MOTY from Chikara. Generico vs Del Rey isn't far off from that margin either. Some quality bouts from last year, per usual. Kingston was indeed king when defending the Grand Championship.


----------



## Yeah1993

I'm going to watch Kingston v Tadasuke from KOT night 2 soon, anyone seen it? Kingston's sort of been one of my favourite 2012 guys and no one's really talked about him. I want the SDR and Jigsaw matches soonish. 

Kingston has a really fun match with some dude I've never heard of here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aESuH7hjxbk


----------



## Obfuscation

Match screams big, surly New Yorkers knocking the snot out of each other.

Match vs Tadasuke is really good, imo. Made me like Tadasuke and I previous hated him. Or maybe it was Kingston that helped that come along. Either way, Kingston deserves more pimping. There is a reason why he's still the Grand Champion in Chikara. He's excellent. Although, I won't argue when Donst gets it come this season.


----------



## Chismo

Kingston/Tadasuke is









Four stars easily.

Btw, people need to watch Fox/Colon from Tangled Web 5. Tremendous stuff.


----------



## DOPA

Tomoka Nakagawa (c) vs. Kana (SMASH) 19.01.2012

Just watched this and for the time it got this was a really good match. Loved Kana's work on the arm and leg which was sold well by her opponent throughout the match. Really smartly worked as well as even though Kana didnt use holds throughout the entire match a lot of her strikes were targeted right on the arm. The submission work on the leg and arm at the same time was really unique and the finish whilst I could see coming finished the story of the match off beautifully. Really enjoyed this.

**** 1/2*


----------



## Bubz

*PWG Mystery Vortex*

*Eddie Edwards & Roderick Strong vs The Young Bucks*
This is how to open a show, and it's also how to do a non-stop action match without it being bad. This was great fun. Bucks are awesome heels as usual, and it makes it all the better when Strong and Eddie are just out there to hit people hard and hurt them. Great sequences, hot crowd, great commentary. Yeah, this was great.
******

*Kevin Steen vs Adam Cole*
Great, brutal match. Steen went out there to kill Cole and they really did a good job of getting that across with the way he toyed with him. Cole was great at being beaten up and he sold everything really well. I loved when Cole eventually got some offense in and Steen was super quick to go for the cover once he had him down again instead of messing around like he was before. Thought it got a bit slow in places like Cole looking for the ladder and the set up for the chair stack spot. Some nice spots but only two big ones which was really nice to see. Chair stack was ridiculous as fuck, and the thumbtack stuff was great too. Didn't think it was a proper MOTYC contender like the ladder match, but I liked this a hell of a lot.
******


----------



## seabs

*Daisuke Sekimoto & Yoshihito Sasaki vs Tsutomu Oosugi & Hercules Senga - BJW 29.10.2012*
_Strong BJ doing what it does best. Taking a team of undercard rookies and putting them against the established stars. It's a faultless formula and low and behold it delivers again here. Senga and Oosugi are skinny shrimps and have to fight for their lives just so they don't get butchered here. Fight for their fucking lives they do. Early onslaught to take Sekimoto and Sasaki off guard is brilliant and you really feel like they're fighting for survival and not just for moves. Missed top rope dive is a super transition spot into them getting destroyed. Sasaki and Sekimoto destroying little skinny guys is always gonna be fun and Sekimoto gives a little extra in this than you usually get. Comeback and the finish is really fun too. Sekimoto and Sasaki's OUTRAGE at the end capped it off perfectly. WOOLCOCK should like this despite not being high on Strong BJ because this is basically like that London Riots match I got you to watch but Speed Of Sound are much better than Velocity Vipers. _

*****1/4*


----------



## seabs

*Sami Callihan vs AR Fox - Tables Match - DGUSA Open The Golden Gate*
_Really good little gimmick war. Dug the reduced length for it. Allowed them to cut straight to the point and got the intensity over better. Fox isn't any good but he's fine in this environment because he's a nutjob who'll bump his as off to make a gimmick match work. Some really good spots too which had enough hatred and intensity to fit in with the story without feeling like a fancy spot for the sake of a fancy spot. Only negative was how hilariously bad Sami is at setting weapon spots up._

****3/4*

*Prince Devitt vs Low Ki - NJPW 11.11.2012*
_Not normally a huge fan of either guy these days but I thought this worked really well as a fun juniors match. I don't have much in between with back and forth matches anymore but I was invested in this. Felt contested enough and they both pulled some original stuff which was cool. Ki totally no selling Devitt's finisher hurt it though. Fun stuff anyway. Memory of their previous match last year is hazy but I think I just preferred it to this._

****3/4*

*Shinsuke Nakamura vs Karl Anderson - NJPW 11.11.2012*
_Nakamura's my forecasted shout for 2013 WOTY. There's some combinations in wrestling that will just produce good matches without even trying. This is one of them. Nakamura singles match with just about anyone is bound to be really good but particularly these two. Anderson's machine gun spot with Nakamura down in the corner was glorious. Nakamura returning the spot was gloriouser. Rail spot was a great turning point. Really dug Nakamura's all or nothing comeback on the floor when he had the opening but then couldn't capitalise on it for selling. Finish isn't as hot as normal due to them both lying on the mat for stages to sell which took me out of the end a little bit. Not everything worked here but enough did._

******


----------



## Bruce L

2012 was the year in which Karl Anderson supplanted Goto as my favorite opponent for Nakamura, with three matches that were not only **** or higher for me, but had little or no problem with sameness (something that's hurt my enjoyment of certain more acclaimed series in the recent past). 4/5 and 11/11 might all be in my top 50; 5/3 would probably make a top 100 if I made one. They also had one of the best matches of 2011's G1 Climax. Just magic together.


----------



## djmathers1207

BOLA 2012

Kevin Steen vs. Ricochet ****-****1/2
Roderick Strong vs. Drake Younger ***3/4-****
Eddie Edwards vs. Kyle O'Reilly ***3/4-****
Eddie Edwards vs. Adam Cole ****
Michael Elgin vs. Ricochet ****1/2-****1/4

Haven't seen the rest of it yet, have to watch Cole/Elgin & the 6-man


----------



## The Rainmaker.

Seabs said:


> Fox isn't any good


:lmao Seriously, what is your problem with athletic, exciting wrestlers? You do realize that there's more ways to tell a story other than japanese strong style, right?


----------



## Concrete

The Rainmaker said:


> :lmao Seriously, what is your problem with athletic, exciting wrestlers? You do realize that there's more ways to tell a story other than japanese strong style, right?


Do you know Seabs? Correct me if I'm wrong but he is a HUGE ACH fan. A very athletic guy. There are many ways to tell a story but doing spots just because you can doesn't make it a story which happens with athletic guys on the indies. They'll probably get over with the style but that doesn't mean everyone enjoys it when its just spots.


----------



## Obfuscation

Yeah, I don't ACH. Come at me for not liking athletic, exciting wrestlers.


----------



## The Rainmaker.

HayleySabin said:


> Yeah, I don't ACH. Come at me for not liking athletic, exciting wrestlers.


Well, that's you and I'm scratch my head wondering what it is exactly that you want in a pro wrestler. But, hey, different strokes for different folks.


----------



## Obfuscation

The Rainmaker said:


> Well, that's you and I'm scratch my head wondering what it is exactly that you want in a pro wrestler. *But, hey, different strokes for different folks*.


That's all there is to it. 

I'm not much of a non-advocate of high flyers. In fact, I often enjoy a good bunch. Simply don't care for ACH. Now a top level high flyer like a Frightmare, Kota Ibushi, or Ricochet. Yeah, I love those guys.


----------



## Rah

So, The Rainmaker, what was your rating for Ibushi/Omega, then?


----------



## Chismo

AR Fox is very good.


----------



## KingCrash

Don't want to put words into Seabs' mouth but I think a huge part of his problem with Fox is he can be sometimes to high-flying what Drake Younger is - a guy who sometimes takes the stupidest bumps possible in the wrong place at the wrong time for no reason or payoff. Plus sometimes his matches can go into spotfest war mode, which some people enjoy and some don't.


----------



## djmathers1207

PWG Mystery Vortex

Eddie Edwards & Roderick Strong vs. Young Bucks ****1/2-****1/4

GREAT way to open the show. Fast paced action from start to finish with some unique double team moves from both teams. The last 5 minutes or so was great and the finish was awesome.

Eddie Edwards & Roderick Strong vs. Super Smash Bros ****1/2-****1/4

Another great match from Eddie & Roderick on this show. The match flew by and it had the same fast paced action that the first match did. Eddie & Roderick should team up a lot more in PWG & ROH if Roddy turns face.


----------



## Chismo

This is what I've written about Fox few months ago, and I still feel the same:


> AR Fox is good. He's not my favorite wrestler, and he's not great, but the guy is busting his ass out there. His mindset is to go out there and win a match by hitting as many big moves as possible. Now, I know that sounds bad, but in reality it looks pretty decent actually, and not over the top. Nothing different from a powerhouse tossing his opponent around, or a striker throwing vicious kicks all the time. Some dudes pull legs, some throw chops, some throw strikes, and AR Fox flys, it's simple as that. He gets crowds to cheer him, and that's always positive. He even improved his game in slower, methodical parts this year. He can wrestle even limbwork matches. And his hardcore stuff has been top notch this year. So yeah, Fox is a new all-round wrestler to watch, IMO. But, I'd really like him to slow down sometimes, and to adjust or modificate his offense, for his sake, because his high-impact moves can look devastating even to his own body sometimes.


----------



## Bruce L

Finally got around to Ibushi/Omega (8/18), and absolutely loved it. Much more epic, big-match feel than I ever expected from DDT, and for a match with so many huge MOVEZ spots, hardly anything felt contrived or over-the-top. I say "hardly" anything because the big balcony dive was way too huge a moment for how insignificant it ended up being in the long run, and I'm not sure I like the Phoenix splash being the one finisher of either guy's that doesn't get kicked out of; I don't follow DDT regularly, but I feel like the Phoenix-Plex and the One-Winged Angel are too recently-introduced as ultimate match enders to be just nearfalls already, even in a huge match where their not ending the match is properly framed as a big friggin' deal. I will say, though, that the _way_ in which Omega got his shoulder up after the Phoenix-Plex actually helped sell the devastating nature of the move in the context of how important it was for him to win. All things considered, ★★★★½


----------



## Groovemachine

Thanks to Seabs' Media Week, I got to see the Sara Del Rey/Eddie Kingston match from Chikara: The Great Escape. What a fantastic underdog encounter. This was just plain great; although Sara was the clear underdog, they never seemed mismatched and she legit had a chance at winning. Eddie being Eddie was terrific, with all the 'sweetheart' comments and being cocky but then showing slightly more concern as the match progressed and Sara got in more offense. In the past I've often found Del Rey a bit devoid of emotion, but her selling was tremendous in this and really made you feel empathy for her.

Also, I definitely don't have enough Kingston in my life right now. So underrated, I need to work my way through his Grand Championship defenses.

I've got this ever so slightly higher than Del Rey/Generico making this my Chikara MOTY.


----------



## Obfuscation

You check out the Kingston vs Brodie Lee match from last year? Stellar.

All of Kingston's defenses are worth a watch. Kingston needs to be around in other places. No doubt.


----------



## seabs

*Kingston being limited to just CHIKARA for the most part makes me very sad. Still got the Tadasuke match to watch but I've seen the majority of the need to see Kingston matches from 2012 now and I REALLY wish he'd got to work better workers more often. Thought Del Ray was by far the star in that match but Kingston more than pulled his own weight. Was awesome in the Steen match from ROH. Looked really great in the Generico match from 2011 too. Then he gets talentless hacks like Jigsaw and there's so much he can do with someone like Jigsaw in a singles bout. 

Watched some stuff this week. Nothing I felt like talking about. Worth mentioning that Callihan/Generico 2/3 Falls from DGUSA is very good though. Not on the level of the EVOLVE match but so far ahead of anything else DGUSA put on last year bar Callihan/Fox which it's still better than. Officially done with DGUSA now unless something pops up which REALLY interests me which is unlikely with the current roster and environment. Didn't even finish most of the pimped matches from last year. 10 minutes into a 25 minute match and I aint watching another 15 minutes that I know I'm not enjoying. Crowds are horrible and the cards are full of guys who should only be working sub 10 minute singles matches going 25 minutes. No thanks. That venue for Untouchable 2012. Yikes. Looked like the ground floor of a shopping mall car park. Who the fuck did commentary for the Uprising/Fearless shows btw? Legit wanted to kill them. Only match other than the 2 I mentioned that I'd say was good was Tozawa/Davis. Say what you like about Davis but what he does is generally good when he's got a clear structure. There's a couple of Davis/Walker matches on youtube from last year than non Davis fans should watch. He's much better than guys like AR Fox and Chuck Taylor.*


----------



## Chismo

Kingston/Tadasuke deserves LOVE.


----------



## Obfuscation

I like Jigsaw and his trying to be a tough guy STRIKES.

A Jon Davis vs Vordell Walker match? I'd rather be dead.


----------



## seabs

*I knew you'd say that. 

Jigsaw's strikes in that Kingston match are the most pathetic thing I've ever seen. *


----------



## Obfuscation

I hate to be predictable, but I have limits.


----------



## seabs

*Team ROH vs The Extreme Trio - CHIKARA King Of Trios 2012 Night 2*
_Actually really liked this bar THAT spot and yes THAT spot was the worst thing ever. Other than that though I dug this. Bucks are superb in everything they did in 2012 and this is no different. Scorpio is equally fantastic too and still outworks the majority of guys half his age, even at doing spots. Dreamer and Lynn don't really offer anything but the bulk of the match is Team ROH being douches and working Scorpio over so it didn't hurt the match._

****3/4*

*Eddie Kingston vs Tadasuke - CHIKARA Grand Championship - CHIKARA King Of Trios 2012 Night 2*
_Really great title match. Had a big fight feel to it and most of that came from the way they worked the match. I really love title matches that are worked in a measured fashion like this where every little thing matters in defining the outcome. Tadasuke really impressed me for a guy I'd never even heard of before and Kingston was great in his accustomed role yet again. Great selling and they both hit each other hard enough to make me care about the strikes. Top notch match. Baffles me how CHIKARA fans can call this good and then rate Kingston/Jigsaw like ***3/4 higher. _

*****+*

*Team ROH vs Team Sendai Girls - CHIKARA King Of Trios 2012 Night 3*
_Straight and to the point. Fantastic. Bucks are the greatest. This should be common knowledge by now. Everything they touch turns to gold and this didn't even need much of a touch to turn it that way. Bucks dynamic in a tag with LADEHS is a setting that naturally guarantees greatness on both ends. Sendai team rocked their part too. Satomura going strike crazy on all 3 guys was awesome, as was the triple superkick finish. Great match. Rack another one up for the Jacksons!_

******

*The Special Envoy vs Team ROH - CHIKARA King Of Trios 2012 Night 3*
_Team ROH killed it. Team CHIKARA did their best to literally kill it. Bucks. Awesome. Duh. Pairing them with Bennett and Maria is just such a natural fit. They all do their thing to perfection. The CHIKARA team literally had a negative effect on the match for me though. The DDT spot where Frightmare ran across the backs into the spot took so long for him to pull off that it killed the uniqueness of the spot and he made the other 2 look really shitty by just leaving them standing in that contrived position while he takes his time. Another example when they work a really great teased hot tag spot with Frightmare working a great battle to get out of ROH's half of the ring but then either the other 2 don't fall from the ring in time or he gets their too soon and there's a terrible wait while he just sorta stands ready to tag waiting for his partners to fall off the apron. Wasn't a fan of UM completely disregarding the tombstone on the ramp and the following sequence. That fucking sucked. Batiri guys coming out really killed the momentum of the match for me. I guess there's a longer term booking reason but it felt like it served zero purpose in the scheme of the match other than to allow UM to do his suplex spot. Finish felt totally disjointed from the rest of a well structured match because they wanted to do that spot. Superkick to Maria was bossy as hell though. Why did Bryce have a spaz out reaction to counting 3. Why does Bryce still exist? Such a fucking mark for himself. That probably sounded like I hated the match which I didn't because it was Bucks/Bennett/Maria doing their heel shtick which is naturally awesome. Sadly the match got brought down to just really good status by factors outside of them 4._

****3/4*


----------



## Chismo

THAT spot ruined ROH/ECW for me, and THAT suplex onto 68 people ruined the Finals for me. 

Kingston/Tadasuke is (Y)

Have you checked out the Joshi tag and Tadasuke murdering Jigsaw from Night 3?


----------



## seabs

*Watched the Joshi Tag. Wasn't a fan but it was decent. Can't put myself through another Jigsaw singles match.*


----------



## Chismo

The finish in Tadasuke/Jigsaw is









And shit, I love that Joshi tag to death. Kuragakis is a BEAST.


----------



## Obfuscation

I'll personally never understand how that suplex spot ruined the finals. It wasn't good, but it was so minor in comparison to the rest of the bout. By the time Maria got her teeth knocked out I was on cloud nine and not nearly willing enough to care about a cliched spot.

Trying to rack my brain if there are any major spots that have killed any match for me that I was into. I know there have been some done to the point where it settles the fact that a match I disliked got really shitty. A la something involving Briscoes or Michael Elgin.

And wait has there been a Chikara fan who put Kingston vs Jigsaw over Kingston vs Tadasuke? I liked them both, but I'd have to say the match vs Tadasuke was the clear favorite in which was the overall better match.


----------



## Chismo

HayleySabin said:


> I'll personally never understand how that suplex spot ruined the finals. It wasn't good, but it was so minor in comparison to the rest of the bout. By the time Maria got her teeth knocked out I was on cloud nine and not nearly willing enough to care about a cliched spot.


It wasn't minor. It happened during the interference and big brawl, it was a big spot, and all those guys standing ringside and waiting to be superplexed on, ugh...


----------



## Obfuscation

It was minor to me. I thought nothing of it and going to the extreme of having it kill the match is a bit much. Then again, I was left vexed when you thought Sting vs D.O.C. from Genesis was a solid match. So, it wasn't the first time we have disagreed with our opinions.


----------



## Chismo

Twas a solid match, people just mad because Punk's ex-sidekick got BERIED. :rock


----------



## Bruce L

HayleySabin said:


> And wait has there been a Chikara fan who put Kingston vs Jigsaw over Kingston vs Tadasuke?


Me. My rankings for King's Grand Championship defenses that I consider MOTYCs goes as follows:

1. vs. Del Rey (★★★★½)

2. vs. Jigsaw (★★★★½)

3. vs. Brodie (★★★★¼)

4. vs. Tadasuke (★★★★)

5. vs. Dasher (★★★¾)


----------



## Obfuscation

I was mad just b/c it sucked.

The fact it was a squash was hilarious booking. Nice job building up that heel stable, TNA.

EDIT ~ damn the Jigsaw match over Brodie's too? Can't say as I personally agree. It's moot either way considering I liked every defense Kingston had. vs Gerard too. That was far from a MOTYC so that's why it isn't listed.


----------



## Chismo

HayleySabin said:


> I was mad just b/c it sucked.
> 
> The fact it was a squash was hilarious booking. Nice job building up that heel stable, TNA.


Vintage TNA. :robbiet

But the Stinger mark inside of me was happy to see him destroying giants like it's 1998. :dlo


----------



## Obfuscation

Makes more sense. I <3 Sting too, but it just came off as bleh for me. No big deal I guess. I got another quality arks match. Genesis proved to have something worth talking about.


----------



## asdf0501

*Fujita Jr. Hayato vs Great Sasuke MPRO 11/10*
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xw6mx8_fujita-jr-hayato-c-vs-great-sasuke-m-pro_sport?search_algo=2

Great, Great match. Sasuke didn't fly or kill himself and is focus on destroy Hayato's shoulder with nasty and great looking Kimuras. Hayato does his thing being this awesome fiery underdog who isn't going to take shit from no one, then there is this good build for the final stretch. Hayato could sold a little bit better the shoulder in the end but he is still better than 99% of the jrs in this regard so i take it.


*Finlay vs. AKIRA- WNC 5/24*

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xu4n13_dave-finlay-vs-akira-wnc_sport#.UQ66VqV94Zk

AKIRA is a huge MEH, but he is solid in this. Anyway this is all about Finlay, one of the best performance of his last tour, like seriously he is AWESOME in this. Probably top 20 match


----------



## duttanized

2013 thread is needed.


----------



## Rah

It's here.


----------



## duttanized

Rah said:


> It's here.


Oh my bad, thanks buddy. Also, what was the general consensus on the Aries/Shelley match here? I thought it was at the least ****.


----------



## seabs

*Most thought ***3/4-****. Myself included.*


----------



## Obfuscation

***1/2

It appears I liked it the least out of everyone, it seems.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Rewatched:

DX - Austin Aries vs Bobby Roode - ****
DX - Christopher Daniels vs AJ Styles - ****1/4
HJ - Austin Aries vs Bobby Roode - ***1/2 (the match was great but the overbooking at the end was terrible)
VR - Kurt Angle vs Jeff Hardy - ***1/2


----------



## Chismo

*AIW Straight Outta Compton*
30 min IRONMAN: AR Fox vs. ACH

_Well, this was fantastic, probably the best non-Styles/Daniels Ironman out there. It’s incredible how smart this match was. You have two insane high-flyers doing their thing while they’re fresh, but then everything comes to the “oh shit, this is an Ironman” point, and the struggle is on. It’s so fucking nice to see two flippy dudes selling it like a war, struggling for life, desperation… Insanely good match, very exciting and dramatic. AR Fox’s 2012 was fantastic._
*Rating: ****1/2*


----------



## seabs

*Well it took long enough for someone to appreciate that but at least it finally happened.

How quick can I get catch up on literally an entire year of Dragon Gate?*

*Genki Horiguchi, Ryo Saito & Yasushi Kanda vs Masaaki Mochizuki, Don Fuji & Gamma - Dragon Gate 03.03.2012*
_This is what Dragon Gate does best. All out spotty action and the difference between Dragon Gate doing spotty matches and US Indies doing spotty matches is that they have every ingredient of the recipe to pull it off. Incredible wrestlers, smart workers, fantastic moves, seamless sequences and most importantly and essential to a strong spotfest, hot crowds. It's amazing how seamlessly put together a match like this in Dragon Gate is. STF style match is so easy in comparison. Babyfaces start off hot, cut off spot, heels control segment, finish run. Try doing that for a Dragon Gate 6 man like this. Yet they still get it right every time and how often do you see a botch in Dragon Gate. They're incredible at what they do and it's tons of fun when it's bang on. Genki and Fuji are fantastic as they always are when give the chance. Fuji trying and failing to copy Saito's submission was hysterically brilliant. Genki has the best reaction to a win of 2012 too. _

******

*Jimmy Susumu & Jimmy Kagetora vs Akira Tozawa & BxB Hulk - Dragon Gate 04.03.2012*
_I was preferring the 6 man until this got to the very end but the very end of this is great and pulls it level. The 6 man didn't have someone as bad as BxB Hulk in it though. The up side of all the 2.9's in Dragon Gate is that you can legit buy into the near falls because they mix the finishes up enough, unlike in ROH where every major match ends after one guy hits his finisher for the second time. Roll ups are so under utilised in wrestling and are always great near falls, often better than kicking out of a finisher if the finisher isn't very well protected. Genki has the 2nd best reaction to a win in 2012 during this._

******

*CIMA vs PAC - Dragon Gate 04.03.2012*
_Didn't like this as much as the other 2 but that tends to happen with singles matches in Dragon Gate, simply because the style is so much better suited to tags than singles. The fact that for the most part I enjoyed a CIMA singles match I guess speaks volumes for this though. First half is pretty pointless but the second half is really great thanks to the hot crowd and RICH SWANN. If you wanna know why Rich Swann is so awesome watch this. He outworks 99% of Indie workers in this and he's not even wrestling in the match. _


----------



## Chismo

Ugh, I have a ton of DG 2012 to watch...


----------



## seabs

*Kana vs Shuri - SMASH Divas Championship - SMASH 19.02.2012*
_Great little match. WOOLCOCK's review will point all the positives of it out to save me repeating stuff. Loved how hard they fought over every hold and made it feel like a real struggle of a battle. Great stuff._

******

*Nanae Takahashi vs Meiko Satomura - World Of Stardom Championship - STARDOM 20.03.2012*
_Great match. Probably could have cut 5 minutes off and it would have been even better but it wasn't a match that felt like they were going 20-25 minutes because that's how long main events go. Some really bossy strike sequences and I especially loved Takahashi just saying sod it to the first one and casually walking over to just punch Satomura right in the nose Tenryu style. _

******

*Fujita Jr. Hayato vs Great Sasuke - Tohoku Jr. Heavyweight Championship - Michinoku Pro 10.11.2012*
_Two juniors working a very un junior like match and that's a huge positive for sure. Arm work is great and feels pivotal to the match rather than something to do in the early parts like how it so often comes across. Makes everything in the match have much more purpose and direction. Sasuke's really great in this. So is Hayato actually and his selling of the arm really does Sasuke's work of it justice. Greatly prefered this to the Hayato/Kenou match from 2012._

******


----------



## WOOLCOCK

:mark: I had high hopes you would enjoy it. Felt like a lesser Fujiwara/Sayama bout with the grappler vs striker dynamic. Kana getting obliterated in the feeling out exchange and forcing her to go on the defensive and regain control through her grappling was a smart opening that put over the dynamic in the match and Syuri continually winning the exchanges as Kana couldn't resist mixing in strikes with submissions made for a great theme that would eventually decide the match.

I'll try and watch both of them as well as the SSB No DQ match and ACH vs AR Fox since you repped it hard and said it had a lot of smart work in amongst the big spots.


----------



## Chismo

Just realized I rated FOUR matches five stars in 2012:

- Okada/Naito
- Bucks/SSB (No DQ)
- TIII Ladder Match
- Tanahashi/Suzuki






:mark:


----------



## seabs

*Genki Horiguchi, Ryo Saito & Jimmy Kagetora vs Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino & Ricochet - Dragon Gate 12.04.2012*
_Everything I love about Dragon Gate here. Jimmyz stable is the best stable ever. They're all fucking great workers and have the entertainment side of the wrestling down to a tee right now. The Genki spot with the stretchy elastic never gets old and I suspect it never will. The band catching Doi on the arm and Doi selling the fuck out of it was amazing. Everything single thing Genki does is just the best. His matches with Mochizuki and Tozawa from King of Gate are both worth watching too for how great Genki is even if they both fall just short of nomination in this thread. Genki's reactions to getting pinfalls continue to rule. Tons of fun until they go into the finishing stretch and from there it's Dragon Gate at it's best doing finishing stretches in multi man matches._

******


----------



## seabs

*Ricochet & Rich Swann vs CIMA & Dragon Kid - Dragon Gate 01.07.2012*
_Ricochet is still blowing my mind even after consistently watching since he really picked it up 2 years ago. Even now he's still coming up with new ways to blow my mind with his graceful athleticism. The successive backflips that he's doing now are just unbelievable. He hasn't done them in American yet as far as I know but Reseda is gonna blow up once he does them in there. His whole run during his first spell in the ring is just breathtakingly amazing. Swann's not too far behind him in terms of looking a million bucks in this either. Super tag._

******

*Genki Horiguchi, Ryo Saito & Jimmy Kanda vs Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino & PAC - Dragon Gate 01.07.2012*
_If I had to choose one then I'd probably just give the edge to the 4/12 Jimmys/W-1 trios match because that's more fun going into great and this is more great with added fun. Genki continues to be the most entertaining act I've seen in 2012 and he does it everytime I watch him. Guy is something else. These 6 in a trios title match with a great crowd. Go figure._

******

*4 Way Trios Match - Dragon Gate 06.07.2012*
_This is EVERYTHING that I love about Dragon Gate. EVERYTHING. Everything up to the 1st elimination is just the Dragon Gate roster having a party in Korakuen. Highlights are Don Fuji being Don Fuji and putting on the best episode of the Don Fuji show ever and Genki continuing to be the best act of 2012. I can't sell highly enough how much fun the 1st 30 minutes of this. Don't think of it as 30 minutes of wrestling, think of it as 30 minutes of your favourite sitcom because that's what it feels like. After the 1st fall it goes more towards fast paced spots but it's 10 minutes long with 3 falls and a shit ton of guys to rotate in and out of the ring. Go to openthedragongate.com right now and watch this. 2 hours in. I expect at least one review of "SO MUCH FUN" when I wake up tomorrow morning. Probably the most I've enjoyed a wrestling match this year._


----------



## Flux

Have you got a link to that 4 way trios match, Seabs?


----------



## Rah

Two hours in (Infinity #263).

Someone needs to gif Richochet doing his consecutive backflips into the kneeling taunt. Richochet > Olympic gymnastics. Seriously.


----------



## The Streak

Sakuraba v Nakamura from Tokyo Dome is waaaaay out in front for me, just a really captivating match, great stuff.


----------



## Groovemachine

4-Way Trios Match – Masaaki Mochizuki, Don Fuji & Magnitude Kishiwada vs Jimmy Susumu, Ryo Saito & Genki Horiguchi vs Shingo Takagi, YAMATO & Chihiro Tominaga vs Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino & Ricochet - DG Infinity 263.

Well bend me over and tickle my scrotum if this wasn't the most fun I've had watching wrestling in a LONG time. I can't even begin to put a rating on it as this was just pure FUN from start to finish, although I will say this has shot to somewhere in my Top 5 for 2012. I was openly laughing at all the Genki Horuchi stuff, and the 'Don Fuji vs the World' chop battle was glorious. You owe it to yourself as a wrestling fan to watch this.

Thank you Seabs for the recommendation, I very likely would have missed this absolute gem had it not been for your glowing review!


----------



## seabs

*That made my day. Looked around everywhere for someone else that nominated it as a MOTYC and literally couldn't fine one person, even from people who I know watch Dragon Gate. Odd. Genki and Fuji love too :mark: Oh my.*


----------



## mk92071

I thought I pimped that match in here a few months back. It was loads of fun from what I recall. Ricochet was amazing and it was great FUN~!


----------



## seabs

*Yuji Nagata vs Masakatsu Funaki - AJPW 29.07.2012*
_This isn't close to being a MOTYC but I'll talk about it here since the next match sure as fuck is. Maybe I was just expecting the wrong thing. I dunno. Logic would tell you from the build and the Nagata/Kono series that this should be an all out war and a fight. Instead they work a mat based shoot style match like it was a special attraction match. For that type of match it was fine but I was puzzled as to why they worked the match like this given the build. Plodding mat based shoot matches aren't really my thing anyway. I just kept waiting for that one moment to set them both off on each other but it never happened. You could feel the heat just drain from the match when Nagata just stood back and let Funaki get his shoe back on and spend a minute tying his laces up. I wouldn't say it sucked but it was a massive let down. Forget about that though...._

*Suwama & Kaz Hayashi vs Masayuki Kono & Minoru Tanaka - AJPW 29.07.2012*
_..... because this was fucking money. Best Memphis style brawl I can remember seeing in the modern era. Unreal. This is ala 1980's All Japan with the Brodies, Funks and Hansens of the world tearing through the crowd and legit putting their safety in danger. This felt like an old Japanese lady might get crushed if she didn't grab her bad and run for the hills. Suwama's had a few really bossy reckless brawls in tags this year that have gone under the radar but this eclipses every one of them by far. If Hayashi and Tanaka put you off then don't let that affect you because they're only in it sparingly at best. They actually even just sit in a STF hold for like 5 minutes while Kono and Suwama brawl all over the place and then eventually they literally just give up and disappear. Fuck them though, this is Kono and Suwama out for blood and detached heads. I mentioned old ladies being in danger if they didn't move out of the way. That goes for cameramen too. Don't get in the way of Kono charging at Suwama or else you will quite literally go flying. Anyone who's fan of 80's Memphis style brawls should really appreciate this and if you're not then if you're missing out on 80's Memphis style brawls big time. It kinda feels like a really intense but by the books Korakuen brawl until the last 5 minutes when they really step up the insanity up way beyond the normal level and break about 89 health and safety violations. I honest to god screamed like a little girl when Suwama LAUNCHED that table at Kono. There's another point where Suwama gets whipped in the guard rail and rebounds off it like he's just running the ropes and it looks like the front row are on a ride at Disney as the rock back and forth off the momentum. I can't tell you how wild, chaotic and uncontrollably fun this is. Maybe top 10 for 2012? Around 8-15 sounds right. Gonna have to shoehorn this in on my comp somewhere. I'll get it uploaded over the weekend for everyone to enjoy. Don't do yourself a disservice and skip over this just because 2012 is over and you've done all your 2012 viewing._


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I will watch that tomorrow, swear to fucking god.


----------



## Obfuscation

All Japan had something STELLAR?

I don't believe it.


----------



## seabs

_*Link - http://www.wrestlingforum.com/puro-...minoru-tanaka-ajpw-29-07-2012-a-new-post.html

All Japan's had plenty of great stuff over the last few years tbf with Suwama, Nagata and the Big Japan invasion.*_


----------



## Obfuscation

I must have poor luck whenever I give them a chance. Nothing but decent matches at best. It's fun being Puro and all. Only matches I could have gone without seeing. I make that mistake with NOAH too much too.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

*Suwama & Kaz Hayashi vs Masayuki Kono & Minoru Tanaka, AJPW (7/29/12)*

I wasn't in love with this match to the degree Seabs was, though it was a really bossy brawl especially when Suwama and Kono ventured into the crowd. Wasn't a big fan early on of their forearm strikes but the minute they started lariating, kneeing and just tackling each other to the floor the whole thing felt a lot more chaotic and sufficiently violent. Loved the build from their first exchange to the breakdown into a fight with Kono continually staring at Suwama as he was on the apron and both of them moving across the apron to each other for a verbal war whilst Tanaka and Hayashi were in the ring. There was a great 2-3 minute spell where the visuals were very impressive, especially the sequence where Kono did a Harley esque knee in the crowd and they began rugby tackling the other to the floor and then leading to the excellent spot where Suwama fought off 4 officials to grab the table and launch it at Kono who managed to duck in time. Speed with which he threw it at was amazing and would have decapitated Kono had it connected. The visual of the barricade rattling dangerously close to the crowd after Suwama hit it at tremendous force was excellent and the cameraman being floored by an oncoming Kono was a particularly nice touch. I didn't really begin to feel like it came into its own until around the final 5 minutes, where the brawling got much better and shifted from strike trading to out and out unconventional fighting. Very good in spells, just needed a motherfucker to get punched square in the jaw and the elderly lady to be jumping out of her seat for it to work its way into my heart.


----------



## almostoutofweed

Im new to japan pro wrestling, is there any matches or wrestlers I should watch first to truly appreciate the style?


----------



## Alan4L

almostoutofweed said:


> Im new to japan pro wrestling, is there any matches or wrestlers I should watch first to truly appreciate the style?


just watch a couple of recent shows, and see what sticks with you. Take your time. No need to rush straight for the best stuff.


----------

