# Controversial opinions thread



## NahFam (Sep 12, 2016)

Inspired by @Klitschko, this is a thread where you can come in and get an AEW related controversial statement off your chest. Maybe something that you have decided against posting elsewhere in fear of a backlash from other posters. Maybe something you have thought of but there isn't a relevant thread and it would take it of topic. Possibly an unpopular opinion on something that you feel most posters would disagree with. This is the thread to let it out.

I'll start...

Lance Archer should be AEW champ right now.

Le Dinner Debonair was fantastic. More of this = ratings.

Sammy Guevara is vastly superior to MJF and has far more potential.

Cody should be face of the company.

Jungle Boy is hugely overrated.

Trent will eventually become one of the biggest stars in the company.


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## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)




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## Jaxon (Jul 20, 2020)

Kip has potential, watch his match from last week and he does the basics right


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## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Anna Jay has a giant forehead you could play a movie on.


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## NahFam (Sep 12, 2016)

Klitschko said:


> Anna Jay has a giant forehead you could play a movie on.


People have been asking for larger than life characters to make a return.


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## Mercian (Jun 26, 2020)

I wish I could dance like Angelico

I like SCU but their music sucks

I'd like a head scissors off Jade Cargill

Matt Hardy walks like the Penguin

You know what they say about Best Friends? 

Sonny Kiss dances better than Omega's cleaners

John Silver has the most charisma in Dark Order

Justin Roberts V Chris Jericho in a loser leaves AEW match for Xmas please


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## CHAMPIONSHIPS (Dec 14, 2016)

Omega is the best guy they have and his heel title run will make that more obvious


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## Kentucky34 (Sep 30, 2015)

No one on the AEW roster is a megastar. 

They have a lot of decent hands but no draws.


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## Victor Chaos (Mar 13, 2012)

Riho is terrible in every way and vastly overrated.


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## ireekofawesumnes (Mar 4, 2017)

Darby allin can potentially be a mega star

JR needs to go asap

Justin Roberts has become a parady of himself with the awful fuckin drawn out shit with every name

Wardlow and jungle boy are gonna be big deals

MJF is being ruined with this jericho pairing which I never would have expected


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## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

I like Brandon Cutler.


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

If John Silver was 10 inches taller, he'd be a potential megastar for AEW.


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## THE_OD (Nov 21, 2016)

Cody is the only ex-wwe guy to truly prove wwe wrong and be a better talent outside wwe.

- y2j is a shell of himself (Though age plays a factor)

- Moxley is a more adult oriented character. But I'm still not convinced his ceiling was much higher in wwe

- Jake Hager is as mediocre as ever

- Miro. Jury is still out on him, but not looking good so far.

- FTR. Good team, but theyre basically just back to being nxt work rate revival and not really setting the world on fire. 

Dont get me wrong. A lot of these guys are probably a lot happier in AEW due to the freedom and more mature content. I just feel like Cody is the only one who has seen a true rise in star power after leaving wwe.


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## Lorromire (Jun 17, 2014)

ireekofawesumnes said:


> Oh and how can I forget...someone tell Tony "I hate intergender wrestling" khan that he had a dude as his women's champ


Transphobia in 2020. Cool.


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## Shock Street (Oct 27, 2020)

I liked the singing and the SNL credits in terms of Jericho antics, but not the steak rarity shit or the vegas stuff or the OC stuff. MJF talking to himself in the ring on mic when he was asking to join the Inner Circle was the worst of it so far.

If SCU had to be the first tag champs (shoulda been Lucha Bros), then it should have been Kaz and CD. Scorpio Sky is abysmal on the mic besides when he says his catchphrase, it's like he's whispering into the mic.

I don't like Young Bucks or FTR.

John Silver is entertaining, but the way they're forcing him the last few weeks is ruining him the exact same way they ruined OC.

I think Jake the Snake and his python swapped minds in the 80s and he still hasn't gotten back into his real body.

QT Marshall was fun when he was just a bumbling dope of a jobber that was surprised at himself when he got a move in. Now that they're having him in championship tag matches and going over Butcher and Blade, and apparently producing the show, they've gone way way way too far. I remember when he was the person MJF picked to punish Cody in a tag match against Butcher and Blade, now he's doing god damn elbow drops off of ladders in his own feud against those same guys. (Okay, maybe only the very first sentence of this one was controversial)


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Marko Stunt is not that bad


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## Purple Haze (Sep 30, 2019)

Kazarian is the only good SCU member, Sky is only a flippy strong style geek and Daniels can't wrestle a good match anymore. 
Jurassic Express is just average. 
Taz is the best manager and commentator they have. 
Chuck Taylor is one of the best tag team wrestlers in the company.


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## Lorromire (Jun 17, 2014)

Shock Street said:


> If SCU had to be the first tag champs (shoulda been Lucha Bros), then it should have been Kaz and CD. Scorpio Sky is abysmal on the mic besides when he says his catchphrase, it's like he's whispering into the mic.
> 
> John Silver is entertaining, but the way they're forcing him the last few weeks is ruining him the exact same way they ruined OC.
> 
> QT Marshall was fun when he was just a bumbling dope of a jobber that was surprised at himself when he got a move in. Now that they're having him in championship tag matches and going over Butcher and Blade, and apparently producing the show, they've gone way way way too far. I remember when he was the person MJF picked to punish Cody in a tag match against Butcher and Blade, now he's doing god damn elbow drops off of ladders in his own feud against those same guys. (Okay, maybe only the very first sentence of this one was controversial)


Daniels got injured which is why Scorpio won the titles. CD and Kaz were meant to be the team.

I agree about Silver and QT.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

AEW, Impact, and WWE all feel virtually identical to quote Mike Goldberg

Nakazawa is a great weirdo undercard character. 

The EVPs hurt themselves by avoiding getting the belts early

Not one memorable storyline has happened in the first year. Despite the show being entertaining. Page and Omega would've but it feel apart after All Out


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## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

NahFam said:


> Inspired by @Klitschko, this is a thread where you can come in and get an AEW related controversial statement off your chest. Maybe something that you have decided against posting elsewhere in fear of a backlash from other posters. Maybe something you have thought of but there isn't a relevant thread and it would take it of topic. Possibly an unpopular opinion on something that you feel most posters would disagree with. This is the thread to let it out.
> 
> I'll start...
> 
> ...


Why would you put title on mid 40s journeyman who has never drawn money in his career over guys that have mainevented Wrestlemania and Tokyo Dome..makes no sense

No it was horrible and we don't need stuff like this in pro wrestling. Secondly it did poorly in tv ratings finished like 6th highest segment of the night.

Vastly superior how. Explain?

Cody is closest they have to fotc

If people are saying jungle boy is going to be some huge star in future yes that's over-rating him greatly. 

Based on what though. Trent's basically been a tag guy past decade. He doesn't exactly have abundance of charisma, mic ability etc to be next Shawn Michaels or Edge from what I can see. If I was to predict then 5 years from now he is in similar spot to now. Reminds me of Frankie Kazarian a decade ago and people thought he was going to be big star too one day...


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## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

Erik. said:


> If John Silver was 10 inches taller, he'd be a potential megastar for AEW.


If he would be 10inch taller he would be in WWE right now!!


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## Christopher Near (Jan 16, 2019)

Miro was never anything special

Cody is an overall great wrestler (storytelling and in ring)

Jake hager doesn't offer anything to the table. You can replace him with Chris masters, ryback etc and get the same inner circle


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## Shock Street (Oct 27, 2020)

Lorromire said:


> Daniels got injured which is why Scorpio won the titles. CD and Kaz were meant to be the team.
> 
> I agree about Silver and QT.


Okay I actually didn't know that CD was for real hurt at the time. I thought that the Lucha Bros attack was just a reason to use Scorpio and get him over, I didn't realize they were covering for an IRL injury. Thank you for clearing that up for me.


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## Shock Street (Oct 27, 2020)

RapShepard said:


> Not one memorable storyline has happened in the first year. Despite the show being entertaining. Page and Omega would've but it feel apart after All Out


Hangman Page had a fucking great story going until they diluted it with FTR shenanigans. At this point it seems they've completely forgotten the poor bastard, even his match against Omega recently had barely any emotion or story behind it.


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## JBLGOAT (Mar 24, 2014)

I don't like Serena Deeb because she's a boob murderer.

I think that Lucha Underground is better than AEW is and every joint AEW and LU talent was utilized better in LU.

They should push attractive women who can do good character work even if they aren't great wrestlers like Allie and Penelop Ford.

I don't care if Dean Ambrose is a man of few words. He should be used much more. Whole movies have been made about men of few words.

I don't care if Dean Ambrose is booked too strong to have effective feuds. He should be used more. Overpowered characters have had good storylines look at Superman and One Punch Man.


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## Mutant God (Sep 9, 2015)

Brodie Lee should have been an enforcer for the DO before deciding to take over the stable himself

Miro should align himself with Taz


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## Undertaker23RKO (Jun 11, 2011)

Moxley's reign has shown that he's one of the best storytellers in the industry. I can't think of many if any names who could deliver the stories he has with the lack of screen time and attention he's been given.

MJF might not be as good as we thought he was.

I don't think FTR's had great matches in either of their defenses against the members of the elite.

Miro will be viewed as a major disappointment by the time his run is up.


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## WWFNoMercyExpert (Oct 26, 2020)

NahFam said:


> Le Dinner Debonair was fantastic. More of this = ratings.











Factually incorrect


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## WWFNoMercyExpert (Oct 26, 2020)

I don't think its the best but I dont think its as godawful as a lot of people think it is


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## Thomazbr (Apr 26, 2009)

THE_OD said:


> Cody is the only ex-wwe guy to truly prove wwe wrong and be a better talent outside wwe.
> 
> - y2j is a shell of himself (Though age plays a factor)
> 
> ...


Where's Brodie in this


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## Tell it like it is (Jul 1, 2019)

No one should kick out of the one winged angel. Omega needs to protect his shit.It should go down as the most protective move in pro wrestling history. Okada didn't, Naito didn't, Nobody in NJPW did, so why should Hangman? Just let Ibushi be the only one that has kicked out.


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## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Tell it like it is said:


> No one should kick out of the one winged angel. Omega needs to protect his shit.It should go down as the most protective move in pro wrestling history. Okada didn't, Naito didn't, Nobody in NJPW did, so why should Hangman? Just let Ibushi be the only one that has kicked out.


Why wouldn't you let Page kick out of it? If I was the owner of the company I would say fuck making guys from the other company look good, I want my guy to look good. If they really want to put Hangman as a big player then being one of the few people to kick out of the finisher would be a nice little accomplishment for him. In my opinion of course.


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## WWFNoMercyExpert (Oct 26, 2020)

I didn’t know people still used the current year line.
I dont agree but also stuff that could be considered transphobia are truly controversial opinions, which is good because these types of threads become opinion threads


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Very few actual controversial opinions here. Here is a real one:

I genuinely believe that nobody can truly enjoy every Dynamite segment every week and that it only has such a strong, rabid fan base because of people desperately wanting an alternative to WWE.

Whilst I can see why people would like certain things that I don't I genuinely don't believe that people see Hornswoggle in a diaper, dinner time musicals or Matt Hardy in 2020 and go "This is great, cutting edge and a glorious TV show!"


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## RelivingTheShadow (Apr 25, 2013)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Very few actual controversial opinions here. Here is a real one:
> 
> I genuinely believe that nobody can truly enjoy every Dynamite segment every week and that it only has such a strong, rabid fan base because of people desperately wanting an alternative to WWE.
> 
> Whilst I can see why people would like certain things that I don't I genuinely don't believe that people see Hornswoggle in a diaper, dinner time musicals or Matt Hardy in 2020 and go "This is great, cutting edge and a glorious TV show!"


People don't enjoy every Dynamite segment.

What a hot take.


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## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

Most people only love AEW because they want something else than WWE, doesnt matter what the content. If these fans be real, they would hate the shit out of that content if it was made by WWE.

AEW is no difference to WWE, besides cussing and some blood here and there.

AEW wouldnt be watched by 800k people without Jericho and the other people from WWE, but especially without Jericho.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

RelivingTheShadow said:


> People don't enjoy every Dynamite segment.
> 
> What a hot take.


Well you get people every week claiming show was great with no flaws and giving it almost perfect ratings so yeah it kind of is controversial to say they're lying.


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## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

Some of mine...

- Hangman Page is the most authentic and likeable American babyface since Daniel Bryan in his WWE prime.

- AEW should create a junior division to separate match styles more. That wouldn't mean every smaller guy has to stay there - and the biggest stars would move up - but pattern it after NJPW where the likes of Omega and Ibushi were stars before moving up.

- The Dark Order is old and they should return to their darker roots or disband. The talent is in AEW to have a much more interesting 'dark side' group.

- Wardlow has the raw attributes to be one of the biggest stars in the business.

- Although he is one of the best talkers in the biz, Eddie Kingston is mediocre in the ring and looked like a bingo hall scrub in the outfit against Mox.

- Luchasaurus is a one trick pony and hasn't shown enough in the ring to ever go beyond a variety act.

- AEW should fire most of its women's wrestlers, keeping Shida, Anna Jay, Britt, Serena, Cargill (for the look), and trying to sign polished talent with personality like Thunder Rosa. Less is more.

- Jim Ross is completely spent. He can't muster emotion, his delivery isn't what it used to be, and he feels dated. He should be replaced as soon as possible.

- The Jericho/Inner Circle segments have been good with high production values and good entertainment.


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## RelivingTheShadow (Apr 25, 2013)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Well you get people every week claiming show was great with no flaws and giving it almost perfect ratings so yeah it kind of is controversial to say they're lying.


That is definitely not the majority, a very small minority that probably really gets on your nerves.

I mean, just about everyone shat on All Out and the go home Dynamite, people shit on the women's division regularly, a ton of people shat on Dinner Debonair, people shit on Cody all the time.

That's just a few, are there people that enjoyed those things? Sure, but what you said wasn't controversial by any stretch of the imagination.


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## Shock Street (Oct 27, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Well you get people every week claiming show was great with no flaws and giving it almost perfect ratings so yeah it kind of is controversial to say they're lying.


But those people are dumb Chip


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

I do not believe this is controversial, just not believed by many on here: AEW is alternative WWE. That brings some good things and some bad things.


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## NahFam (Sep 12, 2016)

WWFNoMercyExpert said:


> Factually incorrect


That goes to show how much I pay attention to the ratings. I told you they might be controversial.


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## NahFam (Sep 12, 2016)

validreasoning said:


> Why would you put title on mid 40s journeyman who has never drawn money in his career over guys that have mainevented Wrestlemania and Tokyo Dome..makes no sense
> 
> No it was horrible and we don't need stuff like this in pro wrestling. Secondly it did poorly in tv ratings finished like 6th highest segment of the night.
> 
> ...


1. I just really rate Archer and think with better booking, and a sustained push he could be superb for AEW. Not necessarily face of the company but a reign or two with the title. Having Archer appear strong does more for the show than not.

They are supposed to be controversial opinions. I really enjoyed it. It was different and showed a willingness to try new things. For good or bad.

3. Vastly superior in the ring, he's charismatic and has a natural charisma to him. He also comes off to me like he'd play a brilliant face or heel. Didn't see it until his run with the Inner Circle. I much prefer him to MJF and think that Guevara has a far higher ceiling as a performer as he continues to grow. Not to say MJF isn't good, but I don't think he will improve much beyond where he currently is in ability. I can see superstar potential in Sammy.

4. I just have a feeling that Trent has serious hidden potential. Good in the ring, good look, pretty good mic worker too. I reckon he'd really shine away from Chuck and OC. He needs to be given the chance to be able to achieve that though granted. He might not want too. It is supposed to be controversial though.


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## Dickhead1990 (Aug 31, 2016)

Wardlow's attire and hair makes him look ridiculous.

Jake Hager is and always has been rubbish.

Hangman and Omega shouldn't have won the tag titles this early in AEW's existence, considering the real tag teams that they have.

I actually like Kip Sabian.

Agreed with the comment above about Riho being awful.

While AEW seem to have some intent to push Scorpio Sky, I want to see them do the same to Trent.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Shock Street said:


> Hangman Page had a fucking great story going until they diluted it with FTR shenanigans. At this point it seems they've completely forgotten the poor bastard, even his match against Omega recently had barely any emotion or story behind it.


Yeah like neither him or Omega ended up truly benefiting from all time spent together and it's a shame. Omega is only getting by because of nostalgia and faith in the Cleaner. Because how the story was handled at the end was just ass.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Real controversial opinions? Okay:

- AEW is hurting wrestling. All its alleged positives are short-term and will choke out interest in wrestling even more than WWE can be solely responsible for.

- I no longer care if AEW go out of business. They did it to themselves and there would at least be a lesson to learn.

- Kenny Omega has a lot in common with The Ultimate Warrior. Jim Hellwig had some great matches with the likes of Rick Rude and Randy Savage too.

- Tony Shiavone might be a nice and funny guy, but he’s a mindless shill for a commentator. This destroyed his credibility in the late 90’s/early 00’s, but now it’s what commentators are “supposed to do,” because the internet is full of morons.

- AEW’s TV deal is actually really unimpressive.

- The ONE impressive business factor AEW has going for it is their TV audience to PPV conversion rate.

- There is no place in the world for wrestlers like Orange Cassidy. None. Not on the undercard, not on Dark.

- AEW has made it easier to appreciate the way WWE is run.

- AEW hasn’t helped a single person with a profile prior to signing with them become any more over.


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## Prince Devitt (Mar 21, 2020)

My controversial opinion: I can't take Archer seriously, his pink hair extensions and tramp stamp tattoo bug me and I can't take him as a legitimate threat/contender


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## 304418 (Jul 2, 2014)

Moxley should never hold the AEW title again after he loses it. And everyone who he beat this year should get their win back from him, except MJF's lawyer.

Dustin Rhodes should get one shot at the AEW title.

Heel Cody as world champion & Heel Brandi as women’s champion at the same time = ratings.

Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus should turn heel together in the future.

Excalibur, Goldenboy & Anthony Ogogo are the future commentary team of AEW.

There should be a women’s cruiserweight championship, for the Rihos & Yuka Sakazakis of the division.

There should be a men’s cruiserweight championship, with a cut-off at 220lbs. AEW has enough men for such a division now.

There are no real big upsets in AEW.

AEW is really sleeping on the idea of making one of the past tournaments they have had as a two night tv special (quarterfinals night 1, semis & finals night 2). Or even a new tournament idea, like a modern day King of the Deathmatch tournament, or a Pure rules tournament, or a cinematic match tournament.

There should be an AEW tv special every month that there is not a PPV.


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## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

I like TH2. Angelico especially, he could add a little more aggression though


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## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

Darby Allin, MJF, Jungle Boy are the 3 guys that have the most casual appeal in all of AEW. 

Cody sucks

Tony Khan is a huge fucking geek. People like him because he runs AEW, yet in every other sports team he runs everyone fucking hates him. Fulham/Jacksonville.

Chip Chipperson is a solid poster in this section.


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## Thomazbr (Apr 26, 2009)

Eddie Kingston is the best wrestler in AEW even with his physique.
The Misawa costume wasn't the best tho that's true lmao.

I don't mind Orange Cassidy.

Luchasaurus is the worst guy in his faction.

I don't get the Excalibur hate. In fact him and Taz are pretty good in Dark.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Verbatim17 said:


> Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus should turn heel together in the future.


Said this before as well, just role with the fact that Jungle Boy is his father's son. Have him be a hollywood brat ladies man with Luchasaurus as his muscle. Don't have him be funny tho.


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## CtrlAltDel (Aug 9, 2016)

Cody’s entrance is not long enough.


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## Shock Street (Oct 27, 2020)

Leva Bates and Cody need speech therapists. Her promo on Dark today was brutal


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

NahFam said:


> People have been asking for larger than life characters to make a return.


people do not fucking want to watch a bunch of people play themselves. dam straight we want larger than life characters. Welcome to the reality of movies and tv.

I dont wanna fucking watch cody rhodes play his boring pussy ass self that has to cry during every promo. I wanna see compelling characters that are vastly different from one other.


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## Shleppy (Jul 6, 2020)

AEW will not last long term for the following reasons:


failure to grow the audience
overspending will lead to Shahid Khan pulling the plug on his son’s operation
the company’s top stars decide to jump to WWE
giant failure of a video game with atrocious sales = more money lost
TNT will decide there is better programming available that can draw better ratings
Khan family curse when it comes to professional sports ownership...failure of an NFL team...failure of an English soccer club...and eventually failure of a professional wrestling company

Controversial opinion and I hope I am wrong


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## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

Shleppy said:


> AEW will not last long term for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> failure to grow the audience
> ...


Agreed on their failures, a lot of people fail to see that outside of the wrestling world everyone hates the Khans. Fulham fans hate their guts for turning their team from a stable Premier League squad to a shit show, Jaguars hate them too, the only people who remotely like the Khans are AEW fans because "they're providing us poor wrestling fans with a good alternative" because Fuck WWE apparently. Anyone can see they've fucked up everything they've touched, this will likely be no different.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Almost every young guy in AEW that people call “the future” is going to fizzle hard. Everyone will eventually sign with the WWE and they will be embarrassed to remind everyone that signing with something trying to compete with WWE is a bad idea.

They’ve shown themselves to have pretty bad instincts. MJF especially. They will be treated like EC3 and Mike Bennett.


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## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

-Thunder Rosa and Serena Deeb are two of the best five workers on AEWs roster currently

-Chris Jericho, Jon Moxley, and Miro were better while produced by Vince McMahon

-Darbin Allen, while tiny has charisma and the it factor, also has a look and demeanor that can appeal to a widespread audience.

-Kenny Omega is an average worker

-The Young Bucks can't work worth a shit

-MJF had the potential to be a future superstar but he's let guys like mid life crisis Jericho and the Young Bucks corrupt him

-Half the guys on their roster have no business being on national TV

-Wardlow has a great look and a silent kind of charisma, reminds me a bit of a green Dave Batista

-The company has absolutely no idea what to do with big guys, they bring guys like Archer, Cage, and Lee in, beat them, then they aimlessly wander around, especially Archer

-Jim Ross isn't washed, he just has no idea how to sell the majority of shit that happens in the ring, because none of it means anything, it's just all endless high spots


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

The XL 2 said:


> -Thunder Rosa and Serena Deeb are two of the best five workers on AEWs roster currently
> 
> -Chris Jericho, Jon Moxley, and Miro were better while produced by Vince McMahon
> 
> ...


Agree with almost all of this. The one I’m iffy on is Darby Allin. I don’t know, I’m just 50/50. His real personality is going to hurt him and he comes off as a bit of a try-hard as a gimmick sometimes.


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## thorn123 (Oct 10, 2019)

Hager is a bad ass and should be champ


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## Mercian (Jun 26, 2020)

-Reba isnt aging well

-Swoles music is the worst in AEW

-American comedy dosent always have a Worldwide appeal please be aware of this if you have an International show

-Advertising books and wine makes it look very cheap TV

-Despite its bad often awful I still feel more comfortable than trying to view WWE


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## WWFNoMercyExpert (Oct 26, 2020)

Mercian said:


> -American comedy dosent always have a Worldwide appeal please be aware of this if you have an International show


AEW's comedy doesn't have always have appeal in America


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## Jaxon (Jul 20, 2020)

Young Bucks are not bothered about having logical matches, they only want to get spot after spot in.


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## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

I really enjoy AEW but can admit they have a bunch of faults.

...Literally I think this is controversial in this section. Either you have rabid marks, or AEW is going to kill wrestling. There seems to be a lack of people in between that.


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## Jaxon (Jul 20, 2020)

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> I really enjoy AEW but can admit they have a bunch of faults.
> 
> ...Literally I think this is controversial in this section. Either you have rabid marks, or AEW is going to kill wrestling. There seems to be a lack of people in between that.


Im in the middle, take last weeks show, I didn't like the bucks match because some spots didn't make sense, enjoyed Cassidy v Kip, first part of the Vegas trip was cool, 2nd part horrendous.


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## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

Jaxon said:


> Im in the middle, take last weeks show, I didn't like the bucks match because some spots didn't make sense, enjoyed Cassidy v Kip, first part of the Vegas trip was cool, 2nd part horrendous.


That's fair. I liked the show as a whole, the Vegas stuff was hilarious but yeah the second part missed the mark. I really did like the Bucks match, I don't really have an issue with a high flying spotfest that gets another athletic team over. Deeb/Rosa was awesome, and it's nice to see them actually doing some build and booking for the women. It's long overdue. Was disappointed with PAC/Blade though, expected way more there.


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## Jaxon (Jul 20, 2020)

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> That's fair. I liked the show as a whole, the Vegas stuff was hilarious but yeah the second part missed the mark. I really did like the Bucks match, I don't really have an issue with a high flying spotfest that gets another athletic team over. Deeb/Rosa was awesome, and it's nice to see them actually doing some build and booking for the women. It's long overdue. Was disappointed with PAC/Blade though, expected way more there.


The thing with the bucks, as I am in a tag team myself my coach always says that do things that make sense. the spot I couldn't get my head round was when one of top flight was sat in the corner and buck powerbombed him into his back, he then held on so the other buck could do a back stabber. IMO after someone has been thrown into you like that you hit the deck.

PAC I love his aggression, but agree felt a little flat but will be back to normal in no time.

also loved the Deeb/Rosa match


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## JeSeGaN (Jun 5, 2018)

The Definition of Technician said:


> I like TH2. Angelico especially, he could add a little more aggression though


This.

Angelico is amazing. But he'll probably won't be as cool as in LU, same as Penta Jr.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

WWFNoMercyExpert said:


> AEW's comedy doesn't have always have appeal in America


Beat me to it. Mercian, please don’t judge all US-based comedy by AEW’s self-indulgent attempt at it.


----------



## Thomazbr (Apr 26, 2009)

American comedy hasn't been good since Black Dynamite.


----------



## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

PAC is not the second coming of Christ, as some in here make him. He is an average wrestler with an average look and average mic skills.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

JeSeGaN said:


> This.
> 
> Angelico is amazing. But he'll probably won't be as cool as in LU, same as Penta Jr.


I didn't see him in LU. Any matches to recommend me? He's one of my favorites to watch in the ring


----------



## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

The Definition of Technician said:


> I didn't see him in LU. Any matches to recommend me? He's one of my favorites to watch in the ring


The one where he jumps off of the balcony flying for like a minute. But basically any trios match with his gang was good.


----------



## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

fabi1982 said:


> PAC is not the second coming of Christ, as some in here make him. He is an average wrestler with an average look and average mic skills.


That’s interesting, typically we agree on most things on this forum.

I’m a massive Pac fan, my favourite wrestler on the roster, although I’m an angry British bastard so that’s probably why.

Out of interest, who’s your favourite? Just want to know where to direct my abuse when Pac whoops his ass 😂


----------



## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

Hitman1987 said:


> That’s interesting, typically we agree on most things on this forum.
> 
> I’m a massive Pac fan, my favourite wrestler on the roster, although I’m an angry British bastard so that’s probably why.
> 
> Out of interest, who’s your favourite? Just want to know where to direct my abuse when Pac whoops his ass 😂


Oh thats good, maybe you can explain why everyone thinks he is so great. I didnt mind him in WWE and dont mind him in AEW, but the hype is so unreal, like I said he seems to be the savior for some. He just dont have charisma (at least my opinion) and there are many on the roster better than him imo.

I like Kenny, Hangman, Archer, Britt and the Luchas (but not as much as in LU). So maybe you will get your wish soon. I predict some Hangman/one of the deatch triangle guys soon.


----------



## Metalhead1 (Jan 21, 2019)

Stop with all these pregnancy photos. Bella twins, Becky Lynch, ad nauseum. I mean, do these women crave attention so much that they feel the need to broadcast their bulbous pregnant stomachs to the entire world. 

I know that wasn't related to AEW, but I felt it was appropriate. Now some AEW stuff..........

I really like Darby Allin. With his interesting persona and charismatic and "horror" look, he really has the potential to be a star. In a world where many wrestlers are so damn boring, Darby is a breath of fresh air, captivating and entertaining. 

Give the Butcher and the Blade a push. They have a really cool, tough, and demented look and Allie is a nice addition. Yet it frustrates me that they keep on losing.


----------



## somerandomfan (Dec 13, 2013)

Humor is subjective and I don't think a lot of the comedy that gets shit on around here is that bad, plenty of it is entertaining. That said though AEW has a problem knowing when to stop and can loop around to the point it stops being entertaining. (Case in point, the first Vegas segment on last week's Dynamite was fun, but then they ruined it with that stupid hung over second segment that ended with Swoggle in a diaper)

Miro having a "gamer" gimmick probably won't be as career destroying as some people think it will be, there's overlaps in the demographics and AEW already drew a crowd at an E-Sports event. He's not even as over the top as New Day try to make things and they're still pretty successful and got pretty over (even if they've cooled off a bit now) so if booked right Miro will probably be fine. Although I don't think they should have gone this many weeks still on the arcade cabinet story, or if they are they probably should explain it more, a MAME cabinet like that probably ran them in the $300-$500 range on average, and since this is wrestling then can probably inflate a price value anyway, but they've dragged that story out a bit too far.

Darby Allin is fine, might need to change up the ring attire a little bit but the facepaint is fine, his matches could be better but are solid enough and his in ring style works out for his gimmick. I can't say I like all the jackass style video packages but at least he doesn't feel like he blends in with the rest of the roster without anything super distinct about them.

I don't think fans will be happy whatever the EVPs do so it's hard to say there's a "right" way to use them, people complained when Omega or The Young Bucks weren't in the title picture and in the midcard, now that they're at the top of their respective divisions now the opposite crowd thinking they shouldn't be pushed are becoming louder, they should just focus on making a good product regardless of whether or not they're at the top of the card since making a majority of people happy in this situation is wildly unrealistic.

That said though Cody needs to fuck off, he keeps trying to outshine everybody and give himself an elaborate big ppv entrance every week, all that's doing is making himself look too egotistical and wasting TV time that they're already too crunched on. (Okay admittedly this one probably isn't that controversial of an opinion)

AEW needs to calm down a little, I realize they do have to try to get ratings up and yes they do have direct competition but every week feels like they're trying to blow their load and make things feel like a big deal and it's getting to the point where that's feeling like the norm and PPVs are starting to feel like episodes of Dynamite with less vignettes. I'm not saying they should try to make their shows boring or anything but when every week feels like they're trying to be special, they're not leaving themselves a lot of room when something actually needs to be special.


----------



## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

fabi1982 said:


> Oh thats good, maybe you can explain why everyone thinks he is so great. I didnt mind him in WWE and dont mind him in AEW, but the hype is so unreal, like I said he seems to be the savior for some. He just dont have charisma (at least my opinion) and there are many on the roster better than him imo.
> 
> I like Kenny, Hangman, Archer, Britt and the Luchas (but not as much as in LU). So maybe you will get your wish soon. I predict some Hangman/one of the deatch triangle guys soon.


The thing I like about Pac is ‘what you see is what you get’, he’s not the tallest but he could not be in better shape for his size. He looks like a nasty bastard and he’s a nasty bastard in the ring. In a company where faces and heels don’t really exist he is clearly a heel and every move he performs looks like it’s designed to hurt his opponent. His move set is also awesome (Poisonrana, shooting star, black arrow, brutaliser). I popped like fuck when he put Kenny in the brutaliser, such an intelligent finish. That’s the beauty about wrestling though, people have their favourites and that’s what makes it interesting when they face off against each other.

I personally think Hangman has the potential to be the biggest star in wrestling if booked properly. A no nonsense cowboy who has the look, who rides a horse to the ring, drinks with the fans and has a front flip lariat as a finisher. He has it all, his promo on BTE with Cutler is also one of the best promos I’ve seen in years. He’s a star.


----------



## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

Hitman1987 said:


> The thing I like about Pac is ‘what you see is what you get’, he’s not the tallest but he could not be in better shape for his size. He looks like a nasty bastard and he’s a nasty bastard in the ring. In a company where faces and heels don’t really exist he is clearly a heel and every move he performs looks like it’s designed to hurt his opponent. His move set is also awesome (Poisonrana, shooting star, black arrow, brutaliser). I popped like fuck when he put Kenny in the brutaliser, such an intelligent finish. That’s the beauty about wrestling though, people have their favourites and that’s what makes it interesting when they face off against each other.
> 
> I personally think Hangman has the potential to be the biggest star in wrestling if booked properly. A no nonsense cowboy who has the look, who rides a horse to the ring, drinks with the fans and has a front flip lariat as a finisher. He has it all, his promo on BTE with Cutler is also one of the best promos I’ve seen in years. He’s a star.


Ok that makes sense, still I think he is replacable, because these things you mentioned are not unique. Sadly I dont watch the matches prior to covid too closely, but the match last week was nothing to write home about for me. But I get where you are coming from and I will watch the next matches with more of an open mind 

Hangman could really be a big star, but looking at the last 6 month for me he is wasted in AEW, hope they turn this around, but with the split from Kenny not being anything special and now a match with the little Duracell bunny is no good direction at all...


----------



## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

fabi1982 said:


> Ok that makes sense, still I think he is replacable, because these things you mentioned are not unique. Sadly I dont watch the matches prior to covid too closely, but the match last week was nothing to write home about for me. But I get where you are coming from and I will watch the next matches with more of an open mind
> 
> Hangman could really be a big star, but looking at the last 6 month for me he is wasted in AEW, hope they turn this around, but with the split from Kenny not being anything special and now a match with the little Duracell bunny is no good direction at all...


If you haven’t watched his pre Covid matches it’s probably worth going back and watching his matches against Omega, they are awesome, I think he had a bit of ring rust last week which is probably why he went for shooting star press instead of black arrow. One thing I will say is that I didn’t like it when they put him with Lucha bros (Who I like as a tag team and individually) in death triangle, the partnership just seems completely random to me and seemed like they didn’t know what to do with either so just stuck them together. I still think the same now.

They over complicated the Kenny/hangman feud by adding Bucks and FTR and missed the boat at all out by not having Kenny turn full heel on hangman, this would have garnered sympathy for hangman and heat for Kenny. Then they did the tournament which resulted in a match which had no heat or story in ring, possibly because they’re saving it for a later date which is stupid, and Kenny looked good coming out of it as he won and is feuding with Mox but hangman seemed to just disappear for a few weeks and lost momentum.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

I’m a fan of PAC too. I think he’s one of the most complete workers in the business. But I can also see how that could be construed as an indictment of the business. PAC has never meant anything to business either. He’s got a spot, but he needs good dance partners to condition people to see him as a star.

Honestly, Hitman and fabi, I think you’re both right.


----------



## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

Hitman1987 said:


> If you haven’t watched his pre Covid matches it’s probably worth going back and watching his matches against Omega, they are awesome, I think he had a bit of ring rust last week which is probably why he went for shooting star press instead of black arrow. One thing I will say is that I didn’t like it when they put him with Lucha bros (Who I like as a tag team and individually) in death triangle, the partnership just seems completely random to me and seemed like they didn’t know what to do with either so just stuck them together. I still think the same now.
> 
> They over complicated the Kenny/hangman feud by adding Bucks and FTR and missed the boat at all out by not having Kenny turn full heel on hangman, this would have garnered sympathy for hangman and heat for Kenny. Then they did the tournament which resulted in a match which had no heat or story in ring, possibly because they’re saving it for a later date which is stupid, and Kenny looked good coming out of it as he won and is feuding with Mox but hangman seemed to just disappear for a few weeks and lost momentum.


I think I was pissed that Pac won the first one (iirc) so was not interested in the other ones. But especially the paring with the LBs right before covid was strange and still is, because the overplayed LB characters dont fit the bastard (at least Fenix doesnt). But I will watch more closely now, as I said I never mind Neville and found his spot in WWE fitting, maybe thats why I dont see much more in him.

And yes @The Wood maybe its the dance partners and of course we are both right  the hateful 8 (or is it even more by now) stand together even in an argument


----------



## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> I really enjoy AEW but can admit they have a bunch of faults.
> 
> ...Literally I think this is controversial in this section. Either you have rabid marks, or AEW is going to kill wrestling. There seems to be a lack of people in between that.


Agreed, in reality I actually like quite a fair bit of AEW and the guys they have, I wish they would use some guys differently like my guy Miro but not everyone will get pushed which is cool. But the AEW fanboys are so passionate to defend the product that it's too tempting to not piss them off sometimes 😂


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

fabi1982 said:


> PAC is not the second coming of Christ, as some in here make him. He is an average wrestler with an average look and average mic skills.


How about his carpentry skills?


----------



## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

I like Justin Roberts as an announcer
AEW should only use women in a valet/manager role but they're too scared of the backlash
The Butcher and The Blade are better and more entertaining than the Bucks
Tony Khan isn't a bad booker but drew the short straw due to Omega, Jericho, Cody and Bucks being the hottest free agents available and USA Network putting NXT head to head.
Wardlow is a Luther Reigns/Crimson level talent
AEW should have not bothered with PPV and instead concentrated 100% on TV


----------



## somerandomfan (Dec 13, 2013)

Another one to throw in, AEW needs some DQ finishes, I'm not saying we need to go full on WWE and have 3 or 4 per episode overboard but AEW has a serious problem with trying not to have a fuck finish while still having the fuckery, all this does is make the refs look incompetent. If you're still doing fuckery to protect someone from coming off bad, just go all the way with it and let it be a DQ.


----------



## What A Maneuver (Jun 16, 2013)

MJF is nothing special. I waited a year to give him a shot and let him prove he was this amazing future star like everyone claims, but he's exactly the same. Nothing has changed or improved. Mediocre promos, wrestling, character work, everything. He's a midcard talent who will be pushed because AEW doesn't have a stacked roster.

And to agree with the above, they need to let SOME matches end in disqualification. Like Omega/Moxley next week feels like it needs a non ending.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

What A Maneuver said:


> MJF is nothing special. I waited a year to give him a shot and let him prove he was this amazing future star like everyone claims, but he's exactly the same. Nothing has changed or improved. Mediocre promos, wrestling, character work, everything. He's a midcard talent who will be pushed because AEW doesn't have a stacked roster.
> 
> And to agree with the above, they need to let SOME matches end in disqualification. Like Omega/Moxley next week feels like it needs a non ending.


I’m coming around to this. His appeal was in him actually being somewhat of a heel. A real jerk-ass that could play with the crowd. He’s blown all of that. Now he’s “playing a heel” and that’s not outstanding.

I think he’s a good worker who, when left to his own devices, can work towards what he actually is. That match with Jungle Boy? Mwah. But he’s not exceptional anymore, and I think that without that he’s not going to be as protected in WWE as he could have been had been a top prospect that defected when his contract was up and it actually benefit the WWE to poach him.

I still see him going, but I think he is EC3’d and maybe even ‘99 Jericho’d without the 2000 turnaround. He’ll get a gimmick where he talks a big game, but then a babyface interrupts him and he gets his ass kicked.

If he gets a bodyguard, it will be a big guy they want a little spotlight on that shakes his head at MJF thinking he’s worth a shit. Like Tyson Tomko with Christian in 2005, except MJF won’t even get what he got.


----------



## JeSeGaN (Jun 5, 2018)

The Definition of Technician said:


> I didn't see him in LU. Any matches to recommend me? He's one of my favorites to watch in the ring


What Fabi said. Can't remember what match that was, though. It was after the Tag Team Tournament, I believe. But give LU a watch, it's major fun. Penta Jr feud with Vampyro is another scorcher.

But if it's solely Angelico you want, he's mostly in a Tag Team with Son of Havoc (I think) and Ivelisse.


----------



## thorn123 (Oct 10, 2019)

Excalibur is the best commentator in the world


----------



## 304418 (Jul 2, 2014)

DaSlacker said:


> AEW should only use women in a valet/manager role but they're too scared of the backlash


That would just leave them with Allie, Penelope, Rebel, Brandi, Vickie & Leva, plus the Sweepers during Omega's entrance & Veda Scott if she was interested, though. No one else on the women's roster is really valet/manager material.



> Tony Khan isn't a bad booker but drew the short straw due to Omega, Jericho, Cody and Bucks being the hottest free agents available and USA Network putting NXT head to head.


He has acquired Moxley, PAC, Lee, Miro, Cage, Archer & FTR now though. Plus, he always had Lucha Bros to use too. So there are less excuses to go around now compared to when he first started.



> AEW should have not bothered with PPV and instead concentrated 100% on TV


That’s funny, since there are times when I think the opposite. That AEW should have stuck to just monthly PPVs and ignored tv altogether.

I get what they are doing is important, in regards to tv. And that Dynamite has gotten many fans interested in weekly tv again after they had lost all hope with the WWE & TNA products, and many thought that wrestling would never air on TNT again. But AEW leaned more towards the sports based premise prior to Dynamite. It’s been more sports entertainment since the debut of Dynamite.

Everyone was taken more seriously before Dynamite, from Jericho to MJF to freakin' Sonny Kiss & Marko Stunt. Only Dark Order was the weak point back then, and that was because it wasn't as fleshed out as now.


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

AEW will be dead in less then 5 years. Inmates are running the show. They will use Khan until he finally sees the light and says enough is enough and decides to leave. That means all the top stars will leave and they will be off TNT and struggling to get on a smaller channel. Cody, and the Bucks will drain the company for all its worth and leave. Cody probably back to WWE, Bucks back to the indies, and Kenny will go back to Japan, or go to NXT. Thats my controversial opinion, and I'm just enjoying the ride while it lasts.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Klitschko said:


> AEW will be dead in less then 5 years. Inmates are running the show. They will use Khan until he finally sees the light and says enough is enough and decides to leave. That means all the top stars will leave and they will be off TNT and struggling to get on a smaller channel. Cody, and the Bucks will drain the company for all its worth and leave. Cody probably back to WWE, Bucks back to the indies, and Kenny will go back to Japan, or go to NXT. Thats my controversial opinion, and I'm just enjoying the ride while it lasts.


Hmm, interesting. I think MJF, Jericho, Omega, Matt Jackson and JR are all done with the company when their contracts are up. Cody, Adam Page and Nick Jackson will be left.

When it comes time to negotiate a new deal with TNT, WWE steps in with the offer of putting something on for way less money and no ad split. AEW finds itself off TNT and struggling to find a new home with only Cody, Nick and Adam. I think Cody sees the writing on the wall and leaves. Nick cashes in his chips too and Page signs on with WWE 

And that’s when I think it’s done. Probably within a year of them losing TNT.


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

The Wood said:


> Hmm, interesting. I think MJF, Jericho, Omega, Matt Jackson and JR are all done with the company when their contracts are up. Cody, Adam Page and Nick Jackson will be left.
> 
> When it comes time to negotiate a new deal with TNT, WWE steps in with the offer of putting something on for way less money and no ad split. AEW finds itself off TNT and struggling to find a new home with only Cody, Nick and Adam. I think Cody sees the writing on the wall and leaves. Nick cashes in his chips too and Page signs on with WWE
> 
> And that’s when I think it’s done. Probably within a year of them losing TNT.


You know. Honestly I have not watched a single episode of WWE in full since 2012. AEW brought my back and was the first show I started watching in full. They were not perfect, but I really believed in them and hoped they would be some big alternative and really hoped for the best. I have come to realize that they are just a mix of ROH and PWG with a millionaire backing them. After they die, I dont care if the Rock makes a wrestling promotion or someone else, I will probably never give another company a chance and put any amount of hope in it. Nothing will ever change.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Kenny Omega since turning heel (or beginning the turn anyway) hasn't been anything special, and he feels like one of the weakest challengers for the world title. I don't think he should win it at this point either. If he does, it's just going to be laughable. Also, the entrance is stupidly long.

Ricky Starks is overrated. Like, wrestling-wise he's fine. However he's a horrible promo though and 90% of the time he's cutting a promo it feels forced. Maybe it doesn't help he's usually talking after Taz and Starks is a noticeable step down from Taz, but I just don't see it at all. Nothing feels legit from him. He's a decent mid-card guy, but shouldn't be anywhere near the World Title with how he performs currently.

Darby Allin is someone else I don't get. He's very similar to Starks, but I think AEW sees a lot more in him and I could see them trying to put the World Title on him down the line. He can have entertaining matches, but not much else. He also doesn't look like a credible threat to most imo. Solid mid card guy, nothing more.

Miro is absolutely World Title caliber talent. Gimmick sucks currently (which isn't controversial to say), but he's still shown he has a ton of talent.

I'm not sure if this is unpopular or not... but Cody absolutely needs to turn heel at some point and win the World Title. Only reason I'm not sure is either a lot like him as he is currently, or they don't like him and don't want him anywhere near the world title ever. However I think there's money in him turning heel, booking himself into the World Title picture, cheating to win the belt, and then building up the next big face to eventually dethrone him. It's probably the biggest storyline AEW can do tbh with what they currently have.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

fabi1982 said:


> The one where he jumps off of the balcony flying for like a minute. But basically any trios match with his gang was good.





JeSeGaN said:


> What Fabi said. Can't remember what match that was, though. It was after the Tag Team Tournament, I believe. But give LU a watch, it's major fun. Penta Jr feud with Vampyro is another scorcher.
> 
> But if it's solely Angelico you want, he's mostly in a Tag Team with Son of Havoc (I think) and Ivelisse.


Haha i actually went and saw that insane dive after u suggested it, I remember people sharing Gifs of it here.

Then literally less than 2 days later the match was suggested to me (that damn algorithm lol)






Great match with emotional investment in under 8min? sign me up. (Son of Havoc has a beautiful moonsault btw).
God i miss live crowds.


----------



## kamaro011 (Jan 3, 2012)

Klitschko said:


> AEW will be dead in less then 5 years. Inmates are running the show. They will use Khan until he finally sees the light and says enough is enough and decides to leave. That means all the top stars will leave and they will be off TNT and struggling to get on a smaller channel. Cody, and the Bucks will drain the company for all its worth and leave. Cody probably back to WWE, Bucks back to the indies, and Kenny will go back to Japan, or go to NXT. Thats my controversial opinion, and I'm just enjoying the ride while it lasts.


That's a very grim prediction, i thought the same thing about TNA back on 2014. Yet they still alive right now.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

kamaro011 said:


> That's a very grim prediction, i thought the same thing about TNA back on 2014. Yet they still alive right now.


They are kept alive on a shoestring budget though. AEW is propped up by massive capital and the vanity of a billionaire’s son.


----------



## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

The Definition of Technician said:


> Haha i actually went and saw that insane dive after u suggested it, I remember people sharing Gifs of it here.
> 
> Then literally less than 2 days later the match was suggested to me (that damn algorithm lol)
> 
> ...


Damn I remember watching this like 40 times in a row the day after it aired, as it was just so fucking crazy. For me (right after the Mankind bump from the cage) this was the second best move from a high object ever. It was so crisp, so easy and so fucking great!! And just hearing the LU sound at the beginning of the video gave me goosebumps, fuck how I miss this show.


----------



## 10gizzle (Oct 11, 2019)

Klitschko said:


> AEW will be dead in less then 5 years. Inmates are running the show. They will use Khan until he finally sees the light and says enough is enough and decides to leave. That means all the top stars will leave and they will be off TNT and struggling to get on a smaller channel. Cody, and the Bucks will drain the company for all its worth and leave. Cody probably back to WWE, Bucks back to the indies, and Kenny will go back to Japan, or go to NXT. Thats my controversial opinion, and I'm just enjoying the ride while it lasts.


This is possible, but you clearly do not know how the Khans run their other businesses.

They are willing to cut or trade fan favourite, best in the league, best at their position players. I'm not even saying it as a good thing as it leads to a shitty reputation amongst the players, personnel, and fans.

The "inmates" are relative nobodies compared to the people Khan probably deals with on a regular basis.

What you're proposing would never happen because the Khans are a very successful family business wise and they didn't get their by allowing their employees to bully them around.

What's more likely to happen, is they use those same "inmates" to help build the brand to the point where (kind of like WWE), it won't be about the talent but the brand overall. This is literally what they've been doing consistently.


----------



## 10gizzle (Oct 11, 2019)

The Wood said:


> They are kept alive on a shoestring budget though. AEW is propped up by massive capital and the vanity of a billionaire’s son.


The entire fucking sports world is run on the vanity of billionaires. 

I don't see why this should be considered a bad thing.

Someone had the balls to put money behind a wrestling show on major TV and that's supposed to be some kind of knock on them?

I get that it could be better for how much money they're spending but that's a really subjective way to measure something. How much money they spend is far more relevant to how much they're making versus what you or I or anyone thinks of the produc.t

Shad Khan's "vanity" bought the Jaguars for ~700M and they're now worth 2.1B dollars. Arguably the worst NFL team of the last decade.


----------



## Mercian (Jun 26, 2020)

The Khans own Fulham FC 

Similarly look up Newcastle United and Mike Ashley or Manchester United and the Glazers, just because a team is worth X much does not mean they are being run well or that its not being stripped of its assets, fan exploitation etc

Go ask Pac if he's happy how NUFC are run 😕 

Sports Clubs are very often a vanity project, we lost a club last year with a 140 year history from the league bought by a businessman who had no idea the area had a professional football club! 

Sorry to slightly hijack the topic but communities are built from pubs and churches from whence come Sports clubs including wrestling-There is still the affection for territorial wrestling because it worked for the community 2k every week whereas WWF drew 10k but only came rund every three months and at twice the price a ticket and twice the price for a hot dog

But very happy someone with capital has had a go at changing wrestling, I think the major worries are in the direction of the product


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

10gizzle said:


> This is possible, but you clearly do not know how the Khans run their other businesses.
> 
> They are willing to cut or trade fan favourite, best in the league, best at their position players. I'm not even saying it as a good thing as it leads to a shitty reputation amongst the players, personnel, and fans.
> 
> ...


This is a reasonable take. This is how they seem to want to run it, anyway. Hence the similarities to WWE and booking guys to not shine as well as they could. 



10gizzle said:


> The entire fucking sports world is run on the vanity of billionaires.
> 
> I don't see why this should be considered a bad thing.
> 
> ...


My point isn’t that they have capital, it’s that it appears it is a vanity project. Not that the billionaire’s son is vain, but that the project itself is. It’s frivolous and unfocused.


----------



## 10gizzle (Oct 11, 2019)

The Wood said:


> This is a reasonable take. This is how they seem to want to run it, anyway. Hence the similarities to WWE and booking guys to not shine as well as they could.
> 
> 
> 
> My point isn’t that they have capital, it’s that it appears it is a vanity project. Not that the billionaire’s son is vain, but that the project itself is. It’s frivolous and unfocused.


Unfocused - perhaps. Frivolous? C'mon man. Who are you to say that.

The unfortunate truth is that this shit is only worth it for TK if it can be monetized and have the brand grow and that is something that has unquestionably been accomplished. If you think he's just some idiot who's going to bleed money - my friend, you don't know many successful people or families. Don't forgot his fathers name is listed as the owner of the company and his dad literally went from making 2 dollars an hour to being worth 8B. He's not some twat (although, some of the moves they make really make them seem like twats).

I sure as shit hope the product gets better but calling it a vanity project is just inaccurate. Call it what it is. A business. The colourful descriptions have zero fact or pertinence behind them.

I don't see where the bad faith is here. It's like people think Tony Khan is shitting on wrestling by what - providing the entire fucking industry with more work for everybody. More content. More Jobs. More material for the media to work with. More potential.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

10gizzle said:


> Unfocused - perhaps. Frivolous? C'mon man. Who are you to say that.
> 
> The unfortunate truth is that this shit is only worth it for TK if it can be monetized and have the brand grow and that is something that has unquestionably been accomplished. If you think he's just some idiot who's going to bleed money - my friend, you don't know many successful people or families. Don't forgot his fathers name is listed as the owner of the company and his dad literally went from making 2 dollars an hour to being worth 8B. He's not some twat (although, some of the moves they make really make them seem like twats).
> 
> ...


Completely disagree with that blue sky thinking. By the time AEW is done, Vince may have more control over the industry than he ever did before. Right now, the stars are all choosing WWE. If you want to be recognised, you need to go to WWE still. AEW niching itself because of the vision of TK is going to have consequences down the road unless someone else provides a place for people to be stars on a comparable level to WWE without Vince McMahon’s platform.


----------



## 10gizzle (Oct 11, 2019)

The Wood said:


> Completely disagree with that blue sky thinking. By the time AEW is done, Vince may have more control over the industry than he ever did before. Right now, the stars are all choosing WWE. If you want to be recognised, you need to go to WWE still. AEW niching itself because of the vision of TK is going to have consequences down the road unless someone else provides a place for people to be stars on a comparable level to WWE without Vince McMahon’s platform.


More control? How much more is there than being the only show in town?


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

10gizzle said:


> More control? How much more is there than being the only show in town?


When he is the only show in town and no one dares to go against him even with rights fees being through the roof.


----------



## 10gizzle (Oct 11, 2019)

The Wood said:


> When he is the only show in town and no one dares to go against him even with rights fees being through the roof.


That's already been the case so there's no "more" control.

You really think Vince McMahon intimidates other billionaires?

If anything this is gonna show other rich, vain, oligarchs that like wrestling that they can actually do it and be profitable without needing to necessarily be any good at all.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

10gizzle said:


> That's already been the case so there's no "more" control.
> 
> You really think Vince McMahon intimidates other billionaires?
> 
> If anything this is gonna show other rich, vain, oligarchs that like wrestling that they can actually do it and be profitable without needing to necessarily be any good at all.


They’re not going to see it that way. That would have been the dream, but they’re more likely to see it as the market being full and the returns being minuscule for the investment. $135 million off a $100 million investment with all the headaches in wrestling is not going to be too appealing. Plus, diminishing returns.

It’s not about being “scared” of Vince, it’s about whether or not you can do wrestling on the scale that he does. The answer is going to be “no.” They’re not going to analyse whether AEW is good or not. It’d be a reasonable assumption to just imagine that is what “not WWE” wrestling is and can do.


----------



## NahFam (Sep 12, 2016)

Mercian said:


> The Khans own Fulham FC
> 
> Similarly look up Newcastle United and Mike Ashley or Manchester United and the Glazers, just because a team is worth X much does not mean they are being run well or that its not being stripped of its assets, fan exploitation etc
> 
> ...


Ashley is an arsehole, a ruthless capitalist. But how Newcastle fans feel about how well they're run is neither here nor there. Their issue is with the club not spending enough for a side of their stature. As a business, they are incredibly well run. Most football fans aren't happy with operating on shoe strings and being profitable though. Whenever they've been relegated they always sell players on and reinvest enough to get back up. He's one of the exceptions to how most football clubs are run these days. Football clubs being profitable is a goal most clubs should aim for with the shit show of current world football and greed, but it's not something achieved often without getting relegated. Sustainable business models should be applauded. The Glazer's are the opposite from memory, they loaded the club with debt and barely put anything back in themselves from memory.

I wouldn't argue the Khan's are particularly shrewd or frugal though. Their approach the first season they came back up was scattergun and awful. Not too sure what they've been like this year, not followed as much.

Wouldn't surprise me at all to see Khan splurge occasionally if he thinks it's worth it.


----------



## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

The Wood said:


> When it comes time to negotiate a new deal with TNT, WWE steps in with the offer of putting something on for way less money and no ad split.


You might not be far off with this prediction. Just replace something with 'NXT' and way less money with '50 million dollars'. 

However, unless AEW falls off a cliff and Raw somehow stays above 1.4 million viewers. Khan could theoretically respond by offering NBCUniversal over 150 hours of live, scripted sport for a quarter of the 265 million they are paying for Raw. 

It's a dangerous game to play. Though the McMahons are sly as hell and well connected to the New York elite. So my money is on them.

The summer of 2023 will be very interesting.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

DaSlacker said:


> You might not be far off with this prediction. Just replace something with 'NXT' and way less money with '50 million dollars'.
> 
> However, unless AEW falls off a cliff and Raw somehow stays above 1.4 million viewers. Khan could theoretically respond by offering NBCUniversal over 150 hours of live, scripted sport for a quarter of the 265 million they are paying for Raw.
> 
> ...


Good point, but Khan would be in a much better position to try and undercut Vince if their content wasn’t attracting such a fraction of their ratings. Exposure on TNT is very similar to USA. AEW can offer themselves cheaper, but USA would be getting minimal returns off it. It’d also be trading a PG-13 product for a TV-14 one.

It’d be cheaper to put on the Stingy and Battery Show too, but you’ve got to make sure your ad revenue doesn’t fall off a cliff.

It will be very interesting indeed!


----------



## Marbar (Dec 20, 2019)

I haven't watched in almost 2 months. Based on what I have read since then nothing has changed. I wish them the best but until TK is gone things will NEVER improve.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

I thought I had made a post in this thread, but it turns out I haven't, so:

- AEW's undercard consists of many wrestlers who are lightyears away from being good enough for tv, and as long as they are occupying spots on the roster, potential growth will be affected. Guys like Janela (who is also a lousy talent scout), Stunt, Kiss, Luther, Nakazawa (keep him backstage) etc. actively drag down anyone they're in the ring with and the better talents leave these matches looking worse than when they went in.


----------



## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

The Wood said:


> Good point, but Khan would be in a much better position to try and undercut Vince if their content wasn’t attracting such a fraction of their ratings. Exposure on TNT is very similar to USA. AEW can offer themselves cheaper, but USA would be getting minimal returns off it. It’d also be trading a PG-13 product for a TV-14 one.
> 
> It’d be cheaper to put on the Stingy and Battery Show too, but you’ve got to make sure your ad revenue doesn’t fall off a cliff.
> 
> It will be very interesting indeed!


This is very true. But it depends on where Raw's rating is and where AEW's rating is in 2.5 years. As a betting man I'd wager AEW Dynamite being 40% of whatever Raw drops to, though it's not set in stone. The competition from NXT skews it to some extent. 

Raw will decline for sure. Not as extreme as it has been - i.e 1.3 million or 40% down on 2017. Simply because the closer it approaches that hypothetical 0 viewers, the smaller the declines are. The same can be said be said for Dynamite. In a weird way, what AEW has in its favour is almost instantly losing the casuals and reeling in the 1 million or so hardcore fans. WWE by comparison could spend the next few years shedding those remaining casuals. 

The PG thing isn't a big deal because unlike 97-06 WWE, it's barely noticeable AEW is TV-14. Blood aside, it's generally a very sanitized and safe product. They could drop down a rating and few would notice. It's not like when WWE went from Viscera and Charlie Haas turning face by attacking Trish Stratus to JBL is poopy. 

If Raw drops 30% (not improbable) between now and Autumn 2023, the viewership will be 1.3 million viewers and 0.35 demo. The trick for AEW is to replicate what both TNA and WWECW 'achieved' towards the end of their runs. Relative stagnation. 

That's what I sometimes think Tony Khan's longterm game is. Not some much levelling up to compete but waiting for them to fall down to that C show level.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Oh here we go... No positives because the positive things are pretty much shared by everyone. 


AEW isn't what it promised. Those involved actually lied to us
It's way too similar to WWE
The lower card embarrassments and the fans who defend it and insult anyone who disagrees are holding AEW back
 The long term story telling has fucked Hangman's (and others) progression
Marvez and Schiavone are two of the most boring sounding people I have ever heard
Buddy Murphy does the things Kenny Omega does but better
AEW needs an adult to tell the kids what to do. Creative freedom is great, but it isn't working
This company could be amazing. Unfortunately the owner is a mark and the EVP's have a vested interest in their position on television. Cody wants to prove he's worthy to WWE, The Bucks won't allow anyone in their division who will make them look terrible and Kenny is too worried about what the fans will think if he pushes himself.
There's so much available talent out there that are ready for tv, there's no excuse for some of the shit they've put on TV.
This is Chris Jericho's worst run ever


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

Cult03 said:


> Oh here we go... No positives because the positive things are pretty much shared by everyone.
> 
> 
> AEW isn't what it promised. Those involved actually lied to us
> ...


I wish AEW had someone like Buddy Murphy but they would ruin him.


----------



## kamaro011 (Jan 3, 2012)

Chris Jericho is in midlife crisis and no one will tell me otherwise.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Jericho is definitely in mid-life crisis and I think there is genuine concern to be worried about his health.


----------



## Mercian (Jun 26, 2020)

-Someone should stuff Jericho and eat him at Xmas

-Moxley has the worst music in AEW

-I like Luther's high pitched noises

-Luchasaurus is a badly dropped bat and starting to dislike

-I saw Marko Stunt having a good match, if he dosent mind pin-eating it could work

-Jade Cargill needs to be on this weeks Dynamite or could miss again this week

-The Bucks look worse than Motley Crue 

-Lance Archer still looks like Grover

-I feel for Jake Roberts everytime I see him, just dosent look well

-Being mounted by Miro dosent sound fun, Lana? 

-Anna Jay should be "70" 

-Justin Roberts should go wherever, whenever, cos I dont give a flying whatever about him


----------



## Victor Chaos (Mar 13, 2012)

MJF should be in Omega's spot. Not sure saying the rest of the Pinnacle should be in the Good Brothers and the Young Bucks spot is controversial but the rest of the Pinnacle are better than the Good Brothers and the Bucks. Even Shawn Spears is better. IMO MJF is far more interesting than Omega, and him being in Omega's spot means no Good Brothers and no Young Buck drama that I never gave a crap about.


----------



## Victor Chaos (Mar 13, 2012)

I also add that Darby Allin and Jungle Boy do nothing for me and I don't understand the hype. Neither should be anywhere beyond the midcard.


----------



## famicommander (Jan 17, 2010)

-FTR is the most overrated tag team of all time and they only have fans because of two reasons: Cornette's boner for them and the Young Bucks Twitter feud. The Briscoes are better at everything involved with wrestling in every conceivable way.

-Wardlow is a big botch machine and has no potential. All he has is size and nothing else going for him.

-MJF doesn't need the manager or stable of losers, he's better solo

-The build for Blood and Guts was weak as hell. Inner Circle turned face for the sole reason that they needed an excuse to have the match. One week they're kidnapping family members of other wrestlers and beating them mercilessly, the next week they're the underdogs? Fuck outta here.

-AEW Dynamite is indistinguishable from a bad episode of Impact or Raw most weeks

-It was a mistake to debut Jade Cargill so early. She should be working in a developmental program for at least a year. Now by the time she learns to work her incredible appearance won't be so novel to the crowd. She should have been close to a finished product when she debuted. At least 100 matches under her belt.

-Jake Roberts is a cool guy but he adds absolutely nothing to the program right now and should retire. They shouldn't be bringing an older guy with COPD to the tapings in a pandemic to begin with, whether he wants to or not. 

-Schiavone and Ross both need to retire. It's like neither of them has watched any wrestling, anywhere since 1999. JR doesn't even know the stuff that happened in NJPW while his job was to commentate for NJPW.

-the three man booth is a disaster in all cases except for short bursts of guest commentary to get a match or angle over

-The Impact relationship benefits nobody

-The NJPW relationship benefits nobody if all we're getting out of it is 53 year old Nagata (whom I still do enjoy) challenging for a midcard belt that Moxley doesn't even acknowledge 80% of the time

-All of AEW's belts suck. The World Title is okay but the TNT, Tag, and Women's belts are horrible. 

-The concept of the TNT Title sucks. Naming your title after a corporate partner is tacky as hell no matter what promotion does it. Call it the Television Championship like WCW, ECW, and ROH.

-The Lucha Brothers are great but have accomplished nothing and should threaten to leave when their contracts are up. Either get paid and get some title wins or leave. They have already worked for AAA, CMLL, Impact, MLW, AEW, Lucha Underground, and Pro Wrestling NOAH so they are not afraid to change promotions. They could walk right into NJPW, Dragon Gate, or ROH or back to any of those other promotions and be among the top guys right away.

-Best Friends are better without Cassidy and can be treated like a credible tag team as they were in ROH. If not for Trent's injury they may have been tag champs there. All these stupid comedy angles aren't necessary. People still popped for their hug even when they were in serious programs.

-Shaq, Snoop Dogg, Mike Tyson, and Urban Meyer have zero business on a wrestling show and never should have been brought in.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Aew is awesome and I'm currently enjoying 90% of what they got going on.......quite controversial I know haha.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Nobody gives a fuck about Lance Archer. Cody is the face of aew, not sure what show you're watching


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

famicommander said:


> -FTR is the most overrated tag team of all time and they only have fans because of two reasons: Cornette's boner for them and the Young Bucks Twitter feud. The Briscoes are better at everything involved with wrestling in every conceivable way.
> 
> -Wardlow is a big botch machine and has no potential. All he has is size and nothing else going for him.
> 
> ...


OC needs to stay singles.group drags him down


----------



## kingfunkel (Aug 17, 2011)

Time to build a commentary team of Taz and Christian

Darby is just unbelievable, can't buy into him being a threat

Jungle boy is too small, needs to bulk and/or hit the juice

Marko stunt and Luchasaurous need to be fired

The roster needs vastly cut

OC and best friends are the worst part of the show

Jake Roberts can barely walk and sounds awful on the mic

Adam Page should be the poster boy of the company

Dark order need to go away

Negative 1 should never be shown on TV again

Fire all the refs

Push Pillman jr to the TV title and have him feud with Starks

Kingston is awful at face promos

The wrestling and standard of watches is awful and subpar. Get your shit in and make it look ridiculous.

Having active wrestlers in high positions is a bad idea

I would happily carry on living if I never see young bucks again

Women's wrestling still sucks and should mainly be used as valet/managers (I do like Baker)

9/10 wrestlers on the show look like backyard wannabe wrestlers. Look unimposing, can't talk and just look like regular people trying to be wrestlers.

I liked Don Callis commentating on Omega matches at ring side using a mic

I'll stop now


----------



## Prized Fighter (Aug 31, 2016)

Shawn Spears should be a upper tier mid-carder/TNT Title winner
Taz is the worst manager in AEW because he makes too much of an effort to get himself over instead of building up his clients. His videos describing wrestlers moves is great though.
OC should never win a title in AEW besides a possible trios title. I also think him turning heel in 2022, would be best for him
Trent is a top singles talent and should be booked as such
I was interested in the Impact deal, but now that Kenny won the belt, I don't have a reason to care. Add more of a mix of talents or move on
Fenix is a bigger star then Penta. Mostly because Penta has no interest in progressing past the Cero Miedo taunt. Fenix has shown more innovation in the ring and has been better as a Babyface away from Penta
Cody's appearances as a whole are over the top and ego driven, but individually they are exciting and I enjoy them
If AEW is going to bring in so many young Indy talents, then they need to create developmental deals for some of them. Otherwise they are giving air time to wrestlers would could leverage that in to a NXT deal. It would add more of focus for Elevation. Instead of hoping talents get signed after 20 appearances, they will have a crop of young wrestlers that they can build on Elevation. I would also add titles to Elevation and get rid of Dark proper once the new TNT show starts later this year.


----------



## Brad Boyd (Jan 28, 2020)

Moxleys promos are anywhere from mediocre to terrible. The guy should be nothing more than a TNT champion and his last reign proved that he looked nothing more than a mid card champion. You can't carry a program and act, get out of the main event scene.


----------



## Deathiscoming (Feb 1, 2019)

They need to fire half the roster.

Women's wrestling should be stopped to be featured on Dynamite entirely and only hot women should be allowed to appear in Valet roles, like Allie for instance.

Jon Moxley is a boring, terrible to watch midcarder and if possible should be let go of.

Jake Hager, Wardlow, Brian Cage should all be world champions and dominant forces in the next few years and PAC, Hangman Page and Kenny Omega should be competing for the title and this would make your main event scene.

MJF is too tiny and nowhere near as good in the ring as PAC or Omega and therefore his mic skills don't make him a future star, by their own. He should be either fired or used like the Miz as a midcarder wrestler/talkshow host.

Darby and Orange Cassidy are too petite to be taken seriously and should be competing in the cruiserweight division.. They should never be in important matches for bigger titles, or mainevents or anything. And if possible they should be fired.

Kenny Omega needs to stop doing this weird BC, belt collector thing and just let his wrestling speak for itself and should be a babyface champion and not the other way around.

Jake Hager should be the AEW champion and Chris Jericho his manager, and not the other way around.

FTR are better off without a second rate wanna be four horsemen group led by a tiny looking skinny fat guy who blabbers too much. They should be stealing the show week in and out as a tag team, as WRESTLERS.

Wardlow should have had a better mentor/leader than MJF. Batista got made under Ric Flair and Triple H, not The Miz.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

I’ll start little:

-Kenny Omega deserves mention alongside Chief Jay Strongbow, Triple H, Mike Awesome and Tommy Dreamer as the most overrated guy featured in their promotion ever. He’s so fucking bad, and I think history is going to remember him that way.

-The tag team division in AEW sucks and has always sucked. There is no psychology in those matches. They are all pointless white noise.

-The Elite isn’t a gimmick. They think they are better than the fans, and continuously show passive aggressive contempt through the booking of these shows.


----------



## Brad Boyd (Jan 28, 2020)

Deathiscoming said:


> They need to fire half the roster.
> 
> Women's wrestling should be stopped to be featured on Dynamite entirely and only hot women should be allowed to appear in Valet roles, like Allie for instance.
> 
> ...


You want Jake Hager to be champion.. and hate MJF. That is definitely a rare opinion. Is Jack Swagger more charismatic than MJF? Does Jack Swaggers lisp sound smoother than MJF great speaking voice?


But hey to each their own. At least you think Moxley sucks cause he kinda does. He can be just "ok" sometimes. Not good enough for me as a main eventer/FOTC


----------



## Deathiscoming (Feb 1, 2019)

Brad Boyd said:


> You want Jake Hager to be champion.. and hate MJF. That is definitely a rare opinion. Is Jack Swagger more charismatic than MJF? Does Jack Swaggers lisp sound smoother than MJF?


MJF sounds better and more confident or fiery than most of the WWE and AEW roster but that still doesn't mean I should like him or buy him as a star, or a serious wrestler, let alone as main event calibre talent.

Jake Hager may sound funny but i dont care about that. Just his look, stature, athleticism and wrestling style alone warrants him as deserving of a push/world title, IMO.

And the word "'charisma" get thrown out so much but at the end of the day, when you look at MJF, and look at Hager, it's easy to tell who would kick whose ass in real life. I wouldn't call Hager charismatic but he looks believable as a wrestler, fighter, asskicker.


----------



## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

Not a fan of best friends and orange Cassidy but they have some of the best merchandise in wrestling.


----------



## Brad Boyd (Jan 28, 2020)

Deathiscoming said:


> MJF sounds better and more confident or fiery than most of the WWE and AEW roster but that still doesn't mean I should like him or buy him as a star, or a serious wrestler, let alone as main event calibre talent.
> 
> Jake Hager may sound funny but i dont care about that. Just his look, stature, athleticism and wrestling style alone warrants him as deserving of a push/world title, IMO.
> 
> And the word "'charisma" get thrown out so much but at the end of the day, when you look at MJF, and look at Hager, it's easy to tell who would kick whose ass in real life. I wouldn't call Hager charismatic but he looks believable as a wrestler, fighter, asskicker.


I think in terms of believability and size difference, we should then assume that Big Show in 99 should've been dominating much like Brock Lesnar was when he debuted immediately. Big Show wasn't overly charismatic, so of course you'd only give him a short reign and give major titles to stars like Austin, Triple H, The Rock, etc. HBK was a small scrawny dude too. Looked less muscular than MJF. Realistically Diesel would've wrecked him too.


----------



## Deathiscoming (Feb 1, 2019)

Brad Boyd said:


> I think in terms of believability and size difference, we should then assume that Big Show in 99 should've been dominating much like Brock Lesnar was when he debuted immediately. Big Show wasn't overly charismatic, so of course you'd only give him a short reign and give major titles to stars like Austin, Triple H, The Rock, etc. HBK was a small scrawny dude too. Looked less muscular than MJF. Realistically Diesel would've wrecked him too.


Traditionally, larger wrestlers like Big Show, Kane, Mark Henry etc never fare well as defending champions for long because they are perceived and booked as special attractions and dominant for a stretch and then back to losing to all kinds of people. But if wrestling was real probably they'd be champions forever judging by their strength and size alone.

Realistically, Diesel could've wrecked Shawn but a main event wrestling champion needs to perform and deliver in the ring long-term and HBK could do that, Bret could do that, Taker could do that too even though he was a special attraction for years.

So it's not just about size/believability. Between Diesel, HBK, Vader and Mankind Id love to see them all as champions because all could work, all had a unique size, look and style. But between HBK, Mantaur, 1997-1999 Mark Henry and D'Lo brown I'd only buy HBK as champion and HBK wasn't exactly tiny and could go in the ring.

Just like I'd take either of Hager, PAC, or Hangman page as champion but not MJF.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

MJF is not as good as people think he is. Also I think his heel persona is cartoonish.


----------



## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

MJF is a great chickenshit heel, but not a top villain.

Big guys are poorly booked

Tony Kahn's ego is bigger than his booking ability

Anna Jay is okay 

John Silver is the only guy in the Dark Order that acts like a cult member

QT Marshall is more menacing as a heel than the elite.


----------



## Mateus Tunes (Sep 13, 2016)

Controversial in this forum?

Orange Cassidy is awesome.


----------



## NXTSUPERFAN (Oct 19, 2018)

Shawn Spears is not horrible. Liked his Cody fued, feel like he could be booked better. Even in the pinnacle I have enjoyed his promos


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

NXTSUPERFAN said:


> Shawn Spears is not horrible. Liked his Cody fued, feel like he could be booked better. Even in the pinnacle I have enjoyed his promos


Spears was damn good in the cage match and played his role very well early on. Something that is easy to overlook after all the moments that came after it. That was probably his best solo performance in AEW and he looked like a well functioning part of the Pinnacle.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1390413994117279745


----------



## NXTSUPERFAN (Oct 19, 2018)

3venflow said:


> Spears was damn good in the cage match and played his role very well early on. Something that is easy to overlook after all the moments that came after it. That was probably his best solo performance in AEW and he looked like a well functioning part of the Pinnacle.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1390413994117279745


He has not had a fair shake


----------



## Kenny's Ghost (Nov 23, 2020)

I'd like to see Dustin Rhodes get an angry, bitter veteran run. Drop the facepaint and just be himself again. Win the TNT title, or hell even the main belt. He can still go in the ring and is awesome at promos. Then have him put over some new up and comer at the end.

I know it'll never happen lol


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

*Not sure why it's a controversial opinion because it seemed obvious to me since December, but Kenny Omega is winning the IWGP championship.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Wrestling is dumb, and it takes all my power to suspend my disbelief. The only thing that keeps me interested is the highly athletic and frankly dangerous style of the Darby’s, Jungle Boys etc or the meme styles of the Bucks, or the literal hard hitting styles of Suzuki

Anything that goes into the ‘its a real competition’ takes me out of it and I have thoughts of ’i’m watching two men pretending that headlock hurts’

its a cartoon and should be treated as such 🤷‍♂️


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Orange Cassidy is possibly the worst gimmick ever. He’s more detrimental than David Arquette was to WCW.

Anna Jay isn’t that hot. She’s good looking and all, but come on guys.


----------



## Prized Fighter (Aug 31, 2016)

The Wood said:


> Orange Cassidy is possibly the worst gimmick ever. He’s more detrimental than David Arquette was to WCW.
> 
> *Anna Jay isn’t that hot. She’s good looking and all, but come on guys.*


This may be the most we have disagreed and that is saying something. Lol. Attractiveness is very subjective though, so to each their own.


----------



## DOTL (Jan 3, 2012)

The Wood said:


> *Anna Jay isn’t that hot. She’s good looking and all, but come on guys.*


Agreed. People talk about her like she attractive enough to start the Trojan War or something.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Wrestling is dumb, and it takes all my power to suspend my disbelief. The only thing that keeps me interested is the highly athletic and frankly dangerous style of the Darby’s, Jungle Boys etc or the meme styles of the Bucks, or the literal hard hitting styles of Suzuki
> 
> Anything that goes into the ‘its a real competition’ takes me out of it and I have thoughts of ’i’m watching two men pretending that headlock hurts’
> 
> its a cartoon and should be treated as such 🤷‍♂️


This is one reason why I loved Lucha Underground. It was pure fantasy and had it's own little world. Wrestling needs to do more of that. Because noone on a large scale is gonna buy this "sports presentation" crap. When they can just as easily watch real sports. And to me something like Lucha Underground is less insulting than say MLW(good promotion but noone outside the wrestling bubble is going to take it seriously).


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

*Darby Allin should be the one to dethrone Kenny instead of Hangman.*


----------



## Leviticus (May 1, 2020)

I have a few opinions that most aew fans will disagree with...

1; neither Kenny Omega nor the Young Bucks have any real sense of match psychology. 
Their matches tend to involve nothing but free determined rehearse, what's a couple mat moves to transition from spot to spot. It looks completely choreographed and fake. This is especially apparent whenever someone is doing it over the top rope move in which you'd literally see people having to move in under them to catch them, or you literally see a bunch of guys just standing around waiting for a spot to happen. There is no real sense that the match is a legitimate fight and it looks more like a choreographed fight scene from Power Rangers. 
and anyone who tells me that's just how high-flying matches look is a idiot. PAC can put on a match with far more spots in your average Young Buck match, while still having it look realistic unless choreographed. Rey Mysterio did that for years. The Young Bucks are just more interested in making the audience pop because of a flip they did then actually booking matches to look realistic. 


2; aew doesn't know how to book an overall show. Atw tends to do is booking match to match with no real coordination or storytelling involving the show overall. Even its major plot points seem to be slapped together at the last minute. The Pinnacle being a prime example of this. There was no real reasoning given as to why mjf decided to just walk out on the inner circle and form a new fraction with random people who haven't been on TV for 6 months to a year. they seemed to have been moving towards in JF Alpha and Chris Jericho as leader of inner circle, but it's almost as if they decided to just randomly change the storyline mid sentence, just to give Spears and two others TV time without setting up for it at all.


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## Kentucky34 (Sep 30, 2015)

Let's pretend there were two major wrestling promotions in 2021. One pushed Seth Rollins as their FOTC and the other pushed either Rock, Austin or Hogan as their FOTC.

The promotion with Seth would draw the most.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Leviticus said:


> I have a few opinions that most aew fans will disagree with...
> 
> 1; neither Kenny Omega nor the Young Bucks have any real sense of match psychology.
> Their matches tend to involve nothing but free determined rehearse, what's a couple mat moves to transition from spot to spot. It looks completely choreographed and fake. This is especially apparent whenever someone is doing it over the top rope move in which you'd literally see people having to move in under them to catch them, or you literally see a bunch of guys just standing around waiting for a spot to happen. There is no real sense that the match is a legitimate fight and it looks more like a choreographed fight scene from Power Rangers.
> ...


“controversial”


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## Leviticus (May 1, 2020)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> “controversial”


Have you seen how much a E W marks wine and b**** when you criticize their program or its performers. Even true facts are controversial if it involves aew


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> This is one reason why I loved Lucha Underground. It was pure fantasy and had it's own little world. Wrestling needs to do more of that. Because noone on a large scale is gonna buy this "sports presentation" crap. When they can just as easily watch real sports. And to me something like Lucha Underground is less insulting than say MLW(good promotion but noone outside the wrestling bubble is going to take it seriously).


yah, I loved LU

even AEW - i’m very invested in some of these fuys and gals behind the scenes / which makes suspending disbelief for their benefit easier

i want them to do well - but if you really watch wrestling / and your mind just drifts - you can’t help but go ‘this is kinda dumb’ 

which is why i love energetic styles - my mind never wanders


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Leviticus said:


> Have you seen how much a E W marks wine and b**** when you criticize their program or its performers. Even true facts are controversial if it involves aew


mate, the stuff you wrote is not controversial

For this forum, its a monday


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## Kentucky34 (Sep 30, 2015)

A 45 year old HBK was light years better than anyone on the AEW roster in the ring.


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## Victor Chaos (Mar 13, 2012)

The Wood said:


> Anna Jay isn’t that hot. She’s good looking and all, but come on guys.


I feel the same way about Taynara Conti.


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## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

I like Jim Cornette and Kenny Omega 👀


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Hitman1987 said:


> I like Jim Cornette and Kenny Omega 👀


illegal


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

DOTL said:


> Agreed. People talk about her like she attractive enough to start the Trojan War or something.


This might be the only thing we’ve ever agreed on. 



BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Darby Allin should be the one to dethrone Kenny instead of Hangman.*


Yes!



Leviticus said:


> I have a few opinions that most aew fans will disagree with...
> 
> 1; neither Kenny Omega nor the Young Bucks have any real sense of match psychology.
> Their matches tend to involve nothing but free determined rehearse, what's a couple mat moves to transition from spot to spot. It looks completely choreographed and fake. This is especially apparent whenever someone is doing it over the top rope move in which you'd literally see people having to move in under them to catch them, or you literally see a bunch of guys just standing around waiting for a spot to happen. There is no real sense that the match is a legitimate fight and it looks more like a choreographed fight scene from Power Rangers.
> ...


YES! 



Kentucky34 said:


> Let's pretend there were two major wrestling promotions in 2021. One pushed Seth Rollins as their FOTC and the other pushed either Rock, Austin or Hogan as their FOTC.
> 
> The promotion with Seth would draw the most.


Never change.



The D.E.N.N.I.S. System said:


> I feel the same way about Taynara Conti.


Me too. Not to knock either, don’t get me wrong — they’re just not out of this world.


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## 749129 (Oct 24, 2020)

Production and entrance music sucks,
Jericho should have been the champion for a year.


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Kentucky34 said:


> Let's pretend there were two major wrestling promotions in 2021. One pushed Seth Rollins as their FOTC and the other pushed either Rock, Austin or Hogan as their FOTC.
> 
> The promotion with Seth would draw the most.


*
It's baffling that you lived through both eras and still hit the submit button on this post.*


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## Leviticus (May 1, 2020)

Tony Khan has no idea how to run a wrestling company in just the first everything to Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks, which makes everything worse since they only care about getting themselves over and don't really know how to book shows.

The only reason they has had any chance is because of how bad WWE is. If Vince died tomorrow and Triple H took over full-time booking of WWE. And aew would have absolutely no chance.


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## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Kenny Omega is a shit champion and this whole storyline he's been trying to do since winning the title has failed.


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## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

BOSS of Bel-Air said:


> *Darby Allin should be the one to dethrone Kenny instead of Hangman.*


I'm already tired of seeing Darby as the TNT Champ, I can't see him as the World champ. I want a World Champ that I won't get sick to see day in, day out. Plus he's built like a twig.



Leviticus said:


> Tony Khan has no idea how to run a wrestling company in just the first everything to Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks, which makes everything worse since they only care about getting themselves over and don't really know how to book shows.
> 
> The only reason they has had any chance is because of how bad WWE is. If Vince died tomorrow and Triple H took over full-time booking of WWE. And aew would have absolutely no chance.


It's not controversial, most people knows he can't book for shit.


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## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

3venflow said:


> Spears was damn good in the cage match and played his role very well early on. Something that is easy to overlook after all the moments that came after it. That was probably his best solo performance in AEW and he looked like a well functioning part of the Pinnacle.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1390413994117279745


That's an awful spine-buster.



The Wood said:


> Anna Jay isn’t that hot. She’s good looking and all, but come on guys.


Her appeal was mostly the magician outfit. 



Hitman1987 said:


> I like Jim Cornette and Kenny Omega 👀


That's OK, I would be worried if you liked Corny AND TK.


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