# Mox on Talk Is Jericho



## Death Rider

Cannot wait to listen to this once I finish work :banderas


----------



## Buster Baxter

Oh shit! :mark


----------



## Donnie

MOX is going in HARD.


----------



## TheLooseCanon

*Jack Nicholson nod*


----------



## Donnie

Mox just said Vince is "allegedly a genius" JESUS FUCKING CHRIST


----------



## The Botch Guy

Should be an incredible interview to listen too, can't wait


----------



## Donnie

Mox said he knew the Seth feud was "Dead" and there was no coming back. 

I love Jon Moxley


----------



## TheLooseCanon

Punk, Batista, and Mox are my 3 favorite dudes to come out of this crap company since Austin left. They give no fucks, and do what they want. My kind of fellas.

This podcast is amazing. He was ready to bury shit from the start, Jericho had to ease it lol.


----------



## FROSTY

Oh why thank you Donnie, I will very much enjoy this tasty morsel of Jon Moxley goodness :lenny


----------



## MontyCora

Moxley talking about Vince's perception of his character as a "whacky idiot" and Mox's obvious disdain is an amazing start.


----------



## CM Buck

You wanna do a updated cliff notes in the op @Donnie? I don't have the attention span for podcasts


----------



## TheLooseCanon

For the first time, it really hit me what he said. "I had to go into this old man's office and explain to him why this is a stupid idea". Man, just imagine your grandfather in charge of writing dialogue for you to say on live TV and you can't change his mind.


----------



## BulletClubFangirl




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## lesenfanteribles

Thank you for the link!

opcorn opcorn opcorn opcorn opcorn

:gun::gun::gun::gun::gun:

:y2j :ambrose5


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

"Jericho, my friend....it's time to talk. Finally." Holy shit, within the first minute of the fucking audio :done


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

_*Moxley buried the shit out of that one line he used about Roman Reigns getting sick. *_


----------



## MontyCora

"Oh God, we have to hide the pooper scooper line from Vince. If he SEES pooper scooper he's going to fall in love with it! DON'T LET HIM SEE IT!"


----------



## TheLooseCanon

Put this podcast on AEW's first show on TNT and it will bury WWE.


----------



## Donnie

Vince or a writer, he doesn't know, gave him a line SO fucked about Roman's cancer that Mox outright refused to say it because he knew he was going to get fired because of the sponsors who would have went scorched earth


----------



## MontyCora

This day he's describing sounds like fucking hell. No wonder he looked like he was free on DoN.


----------



## Donnie

He was SO excited to come back from wrestling because of all the stuff he was watching when he was hurt, and all the ideas he had for his return. But all that went away when it dawned on him his return would suck because of WWE, and he didn't want come to back to WWE. 

GOOD FUCKING LORD


----------



## MontyCora

This podcast is actually pretty damning for WWE. The Punk podcast was a pretty big deal, and this podcast is just confirmation of so many of the negative things people have thought about WWE forever.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

This is almost Punk tier. Holy shit, Moxley was suffering.

The madman really isn't fucking around.


----------



## NeyNey

IT'S ALREADY UP WHAT THE FUCK??? OKAY SEE YOU SOON GUYS

The title already tho... I'm too excited lol need to calm down first.


----------



## FROSTY

I fucking love Moxley :mark :mark:


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## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

*Now he is burying his feud with the Authority and how the company never had plans for him. WWE can eat ass. Bret, Punk and now Moxley each have told how dirty WWE can be. That company is an embarrassment. Also they never thought he would get over. fpalm*


----------



## FROSTY

Oh Vince is going to be seething fucking pissed at Jericho for doing this podcast. His head might literally explode :woo Where's Ambrose Girl (or is it Moxley Girl now?)


----------



## BulletClubFangirl

Not even 20 minutes in yet and what's striking to me is how much time Moxley spent just trying to shave cringy parts of his promo off. Imagine if he could've spent that time and energy on coming up with creative promos himself rather than trying to mitigate the cringe. He was told not to try to change anything after a while too. If you care at all about creative then WWE is a terrible place to work. I think this word is overused but what a toxic company.


----------



## MontyCora

"Once I showed them I had a shred of comedic timing? It was over."


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

*Mox was watching Impact, New Japan, Indies stuff after getting cleared by his doctors and preparing on his return to WWE. Getting ideas from watching those tapes from the old gen to current product. He never wanted to return to the WWE but wanted to ride it all to the end like a real trouper. roud*


----------



## Mox Girl

I feel kinda awful for enjoying his WWE storylines now :/

I haven't had time to listen yet, but judging by what I'm reading in here, he didn't seem to like anything WWE gave him. Makes me wonder whether he even liked The Shield?


----------



## patpat

When someone start by praising the guy he is about to talk about.....you know he is gonna shit veryyyyyyyyyyyyy hard :lol 
They both start praising the place...you know its gonna brutal


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

This is insane. I expected some shots and anger at WWE but this is otherworldly.


----------



## patpat

TheLooseCanon said:


> Put this podcast on AEW's first show on TNT and it will bury WWE.


 wtf?! You want the company to be tna right?! No


----------



## MontyCora

Mox Girl said:


> I feel kinda awful for enjoying his WWE storylines now :/
> 
> I haven't had time to listen yet, but judging by what I'm reading in here, he didn't seem to like anything WWE gave him. Makes me wonder whether he even liked The Shield?


He's making it very clear where his frustrations are, and so far none of it has to do with the Shield or Roman or Seth.


----------



## scrilla

It kind of sounds like it is not very fun to work for Vince McMahon.


----------



## TheLooseCanon

patpat said:


> wtf?! You want the company to be tna right?! No


it was a joke bro. they won't.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

He mentioned Nia Jax too. :beckylol


----------



## kingnoth1n

Destroyed Vince luls.


----------



## BulletClubFangirl

I hope he talks about the Stone Cold podcast and Cena calling him lazy.


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## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

Vince tried to lie to him about not burying Dean Ambrose with the Nia shit and even Dean knew what was going to happen, predicted shit before he told Vince he is not coming back.


----------



## patpat

TheLooseCanon said:


> patpat said:
> 
> 
> 
> wtf?! You want the company to be tna right?! No
> 
> 
> 
> it was a joke bro. they won't.
Click to expand...

 oh :lol damn I lost my sense of humor sorry man


----------



## TheLooseCanon

He just said Vince is the problem. OK, what WF account is Mox? lol


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

Just called Vince the Million Dollar man that likes to buy anyone and everything to keep to himself. :lol


----------



## MontyCora

He's talking about a final big showdown with Vince the night he was told about his Nia bump that sounds EXACTLY like the Punk podcast.


----------



## patpat

The burial is savage! :lol :lol


----------



## Donnie

Mox Girl said:


> I feel kinda awful for enjoying his WWE storylines now :/
> 
> I haven't had time to listen yet, but judging by what I'm reading in here, he didn't seem to like anything WWE gave him. Makes me wonder whether he even liked The Shield?


By the sounds of it he LOVED the Shield, it was everything after that slowly killed his love of wrestling (sounds familiar unk)

He talked about how he flew himself to NYC to talk to Vince about his return (Jericho told him he did the same thing) he pitched an idea about returning to Mania to face Seth, or feud with Bryan and AJ. Anything that wasn't the same character he played because he HATED his character so much he couldn't look at himself in the mirror 

Vince said he had the Shield booked for Australia so he didn't want to fuck up the plans. Mox sucked it up, and got Vince to agree to at least let him return at SummerSlam. Vince changed his mind a few months later and made him come back the Raw before the PPV. Mox buried the living fuck of the writers making Seth drop a bunch of shitty buzzwords before he announced Dean was back. 

He said that the aborted Nia feud was a "fuck you" from someone vince) and he told Vince he knew it was a burial, and Vince swore it wasn't.

Said that he didn't even look at the contract they offered him because he was done with WWE no matter what.

He said he told Vince how sick he felt every Monday about getting a script out of fear of what goofy shit they would make him say.


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## V-Trigger

>Mox gets handed a shitty script

>Tells the writer his lines are dumb and awful

>Writer agrees

>Vince sends the script back to Mox with the stupid shit

>Mox goes to Vince

>Vince responds with "OH! IT'S SUCH GOOD SHIT! OH THIS STUFF! THIS IS THE REASON WHY PEOPLE LIKE YOU! THIS IS WHY PEOPLE CONNECT TO YOU, YOU'RE DIFFERENT! THIS IS YOU"

>Which probably get ridden into the ground like "We need to make Roman look really strong"


----------



## TheLooseCanon

Jericho saying 'Oh hi Renee' as she passes by her husband going in on Vince made me laugh.


----------



## NXT Only

No wonder he emphasized “Unscripted” on his first AEW Shirt.


----------



## Cheetara86

*Jon Moxley “Talk is Jericho” highlights aka Goes the fuck in on Vince*

Jon Moxley didn’t just spill the tea on Vince and creative, he spilled the whole kettle and then some. Highlights from his interview with Jericho:

- Knew he wanted to leave the company in July 2018 when he was out with his injury.

- Vince was mad that fans were cheering for him at house shows despite being a heel and booing when he lost.

- refuses to read a scripted promo because he saw it as idiotic while Vince thought it was great.

- Talks about promos while feuding with Seth last year, and how it made no sense, tried to rewrite them, and got frustrated when he couldn’t.

- says cutting the promo about Romans cancer was distasteful.

- Felt like walking out on the Raw where he got those shots in his promo. And that he knew that day, he was knew he was leaving and not coming back.

- Vince tried to talked him into saying another cancer remark about Roman, and sakes it was so bad that they could have lost sponsors. He refused to say it.

- he was excited to return to wrestling when he was injured, but not to WWE.

- Says if there was no other promotion other then WWE, he still would have left.

- Vince “didn’t know” he was unhappy, even with him being very open about his frustrations to Vince himself, about the scripts.

- Was Happy to take the bumps from Nia Jax, but felt like it was punishment for him leaving.

- Was offered a new co tract, and never looked at it.
- His goal in AEW is to be the best version of himself, and loves the. Relative freedom.

- Tony Khan is the polar opposite of Vince, like him and the fact that he is a huge wrestling fan.

- Talks about using social media a lot now that he is gone fro WWE.

- Made 500 bucks for the Shield special.

Told Seth that he was a wild animal that had been domesticated far too long when Seth was upset about him leaving.

- Told Seth that he should leave the company too.

He did put over the WWE for being the place he was able to travel with, meet fans all over, do Make a Wish, and meet his future wife and best friend.

https://omny.fm/shows/talk-is-jericho/the-emancipation-of-jon-moxley


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

"The WWE process sucks and doesn't work." :sodone


----------



## Donnie

He's now saying Vince wants to say he "OWNS" all the wrestlers. 

This is CM Punk level scorched earth without the lawsuit 

:ambrose

Said it wouldn't have mattered it was 10Mill. He's bought and paid for everything he, and his mum need


----------



## TheLooseCanon

Khan is a bigger wrestling fan than Vince. lol


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## kingnoth1n

Im definitely convinced there is no collusion with either company after this burial; at least nothing Vince is aware of. Vince is so out of touch sounding here it is kind of sad.


----------



## Master Bate

Tyler Black interrupting a Jon Moxley match lol


----------



## TheLooseCanon

Jericho tried to save face with Vince saying 'what could light the fire for Vince to love it again' and Mox goes 'I got something, your creative process sucks! Change it!'.


----------



## Genking48

*Re: Jon Moxley “Talk is Jericho” highlights aka Goes the fuck in on Vince*



> Felt like walking out *on the Raw where he got those shots in his promo*. And that he knew that day, he knew he was leaving and not coming back


Holy fuck I forgot about that. I kept trying to find a segment where he was doing shots.


----------



## VitoCorleoneX

*Re: Jon Moxley “Talk is Jericho” highlights aka Goes the fuck in on Vince*



Cheetara86 said:


> - Made 500 bucks for the Shield special.


500 bucks lol. Thats what Ambrose was worth in the eyes of the wwe that night i guess.



Gesendet von meinem SM-G955F mit Tapatalk


----------



## TheLooseCanon

He produced that promo video himself, about $8,000.


----------



## Donnie

HE SAID VINCE IS THE PROBLEM. AND HE WANTS AEW TO SHOW VINCE'S WAY SUCKS

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST


----------



## TheLooseCanon

Harry and the Hendersons reference. :mark:


----------



## kingnoth1n

Man this is really really great. Need to put this on general WWE as well tbh. Would be nice if we could make a superthread that shows on both forums. But eh everyone will wake up in the morning and know about this shit too.


----------



## Cheetara86

*Re: Jon Moxley “Talk is Jericho” highlights aka Goes the fuck in on Vince*

Forgot to add

- Wanted to come back as a heel, pitched it to Vince before coming back and wanted to be completely new character. And said, as much as he loved tagging with Seth, he wanted to do something new. he hated how they brought him back, even down to the way they had Seth introduced him.

- Got physically sick every Monday because of the shit he might have to do.

- Vince always saw Deans character as some wacky guy who does zany shit and Jon tried to fight against that.

Dean didn't tell Seth he was leaving yet because he had informed upper management during rumble weekend and he didn't wanna put a dampner on Seth's big night.

Wanted to go to Japan or CZW before AEW.


----------



## TheLooseCanon

Finished. That was amazing. AEW!!!!!!!!!! Gonna see creative freedom with Moxley!


----------



## Mox Girl

TheLooseCanon said:


> He produced that promo video himself, about $8,000.


I knew it! I even said he probably did last week


----------



## V-Trigger

Now we know why he signed a multi year deal right away. He burned down the fucking bridge LMAO.


----------



## Donnie

Mox got paid $500 for his last match :lmao


----------



## IronMan8

*Re: Jon Moxley “Talk is Jericho” highlights aka Goes the fuck in on Vince*

Which promo was the one where he knew for sure he'd be leading?


----------



## Genking48

*Re: Jon Moxley “Talk is Jericho” highlights aka Goes the fuck in on Vince*



IronMan8 said:


> Which promo was the one where he knew for sure he'd be leading?


----------



## Mox Girl

*Re: Jon Moxley “Talk is Jericho” highlights aka Goes the fuck in on Vince*

It's so crazy that he knew he was leaving while doing that promo yet he still sold the absolute SHIT out of it. God, he's such a professional! He didn't waver at all or let his disdain show.


----------



## Mister Abigail

*Re: Jon Moxley “Talk is Jericho” highlights aka Goes the fuck in on Vince*

As brutal, if not more brutal as the Punk one.


----------



## V-Trigger

He kinda talked about the Stone Cold thing: He says that older guys (implying Austin) give shit to the new guys for not being edgy/"pushing the envelope" when everything is literally Vince's vision and he ignores 95% of suggestions and you are basically fucked if you try to go off script.


----------



## Cheetara86

*Re: Jon Moxley “Talk is Jericho” highlights aka Goes the fuck in on Vince*



Mox Girl said:


> It's so crazy that he knew he was leaving while doing that promo yet he still sold the absolute SHIT out of it. God, he's such a professional! He didn't waver at all or let his disdain show.


Yeah, he said he was grateful that being in the company got him his wife/best friend, made good friends (Seth/Roman). But, really believes Vince is ruining the company.

Hopes AEW goes great so maybe Vince can finally listened to someone and change.


----------



## MontyCora

The 8000 was probably only the RED rental, unless his friend has some sort of hookup with a rental house.


----------



## DJ Punk

*Re: Jon Moxley “Talk is Jericho” highlights aka Goes the fuck in on Vince*

So Vince tried so hard to get Moxley to bring up Roman's cancer multiple times yet put him in comedic segments where he got shots injected into his ass while cutting a promo...makes 0 fucking sense. Vince is too far gone.


----------



## Ace

*Re: Jon Moxley “Talk is Jericho” highlights aka Goes the fuck in on Vince*

Wow, he did go in. Told Seth to go too lmao.

Nothing to Roman because he knows he's set?

Not going to lie, reading all that makes me a fan. The guy hated it all in the WWE, they made him look like a fool and he knows it.


----------



## Ace

*Re: Jon Moxley “Talk is Jericho” highlights aka Goes the fuck in on Vince*



Mox Girl said:


> It's so crazy that he knew he was leaving while doing that promo yet he still sold the absolute SHIT out of it. God, he's such a professional! He didn't waver at all or let his disdain show.


 I can't believe he had all this in him, during the ride along he seemed pretty chill with Vince and said "Old man, I need my Samoan" thought he was one of his boys and was content with coasting it.

But I was completely wrong, he's one of the few in the business who actually have ambition.


----------



## emerald-fire

I just listened to the whole thing. Firstly, it's good to see that Moxley is feeling good and excited about working again. Good to see that his passion is back. Secondly, not one thing from his podcast surprised me. He didn't hold back anything and spoke his mind. It was very interesting to listen.


----------



## Cheetara86

*Re: Jon Moxley “Talk is Jericho” highlights aka Goes the fuck in on Vince*



Ace said:


> Wow, he did go in. Told Seth to go too lmao.
> 
> Nothing to Roman because he knows he's set?
> 
> Not going to lie, reading all that makes me a fan. The guy hated it all in the WWE, they made him look like a fool and he knows it.


He didn’t bring that up, but I guess with Roman having a family and a permanent spot as the top guy ( with Brock), what’s the point?

But, you can tell how much love he has not just for Renee, but for Seth and Roman.


----------



## DJ Punk

I truly believe Moxley has just saved wrestling. Can't wait to see how the next couple years play out.


----------



## Mox Girl

*Re: Jon Moxley “Talk is Jericho” highlights aka Goes the fuck in on Vince*



Ace said:


> Wow, he did go in. Told Seth to go too lmao.
> 
> Nothing to Roman because he knows he's set?
> 
> Not going to lie, reading all that makes me a fan. The guy hated it all in the WWE, they made him look like a fool and he knows it.


Maybe he didn't tell Roman cos it was when Roman was battling leukemia and they had no idea whether he was even going to come back? Who knows, though.


----------



## emerald-fire

Mox just :buried Vince.



Ace said:


> Wow, he did go in. *Told Seth to go too lmao.
> *


I probably missed this bit. Where was this?


----------



## Mister Abigail

Surprised he didn't mention the Austin podcast. 

Dirty Jericho will be rubbing his hands with greedy glee tonight.


----------



## Cheetara86

Also Sick Nick Mondo produces his video.


----------



## Donnie

Said he doesn't give a shit about WWE. "It's in the past"


----------



## kingnoth1n

As an aside....I still hate his crappy WWE music, and sounds like he pops off of it. He better get better music in AEW


----------



## Bosnian21

Damn, what an interesting listen.


----------



## Donnie

SICK NICK MONDO made the video :cozy


----------



## Buster Baxter

Crazy to know that he knew he was gone before even returning to the company last August and to hear he was dealing with depression. I do not see him returning to WWE for a very long time. I just can't help but be happy for the guy that he's linked with a new trainer, is financially stable, and pretty much has the autonomy to do whatever he wants now.


----------



## Donnie

Said as he WAS making the video in February :vince txt him to ask for a favour, pal. To work the Euro tour, he thought about it for a half a second, and said nope. :banderas


----------



## patpat

That's why I am so surprised with seth. 
I remember in the past he was so wild, going to hhh's office telling him to fuck off and to give him the nxt title because he Is best. Rollins was basically cm punk with a better in ring. But these last year...i barely recognize the guy,he is so fucking bland ( and that's on hhh, he domesticated the young guys). In 2015 he was absolutely savage trying to prove he can keep up with guys like cena and brock....now the dude is just...meh....
It's sad it happened to him. 
Also Moxley"i dont give a fuck about wwe" <img src="http://i.imgur.com/EGDmCdR.gif?1?6573" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" /> holy fuck <img src="http://i.imgur.com/EGDmCdR.gif?1?6573" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" />
I think he might leave.


----------



## V-Trigger

patpat said:


> I think he might leave.


Not really, current Seth sounds like a company man.


----------



## Donnie

He said he never spoke to AEW about money because it's not about that. It's about creativity and freedom. 

:sodone


----------



## BulletClubFangirl

V-Trigger said:


> He kinda talked about the Stone Cold thing: He says that older guys (implying Austin) give shit to the new guys for not being edgy/"pushing the envelope" when everything is literally Vince's vision and he ignores 95% of suggestions and you are basically fucked if you try to go off script.


Didn't Stone Cold say he was complacent in the ring? Although maybe Mox could've been referring to ring agents as well when he said that.


----------



## V-Trigger

He also said that him and Cody get along great and Cody convinced him with a: "Go play your music".


----------



## Cheetara86

I mean, I love Jon is looking out for Seth, but Seth is probably making close to 7 figures, positioned to Be the top guy with Roman and Brock...and WWE was always his dream job, so being a champion helps a lot.

I think it would take a act of god for Seth to leave the company.


----------



## Shaun_27

Made some time to listen to this later at work - does he mention Austin or Brock?


----------



## V-Trigger

Shaun_27 said:


> Made some time to listen to this later at work - does he mention Austin or Brock?


"Vince treats everything like an attraction".

"That's why he pays Brock millions to ruin his company".


----------



## Cheetara86

Best quote: “That’s why Vince pays Brock millions to ruin the company” hahaha


----------



## kingnoth1n

I'm sooooo ready for the backlash of this pod. Im pretty sure it will be pretty viral and common knowledge by tomorrow evening. Was such an enjoyable listen.


----------



## CM Buck

Vince just got that ether holy shit. Safe to say we ain't seeing dean ambrose until Vince is dead. Long live moxley. I'm so glad he didn't go back to CZW fuck that place


----------



## Bobholly39

Ace said:


> I can't believe he had all this in him, during the ride along he seemed pretty chill with Vince and said "Old man, I need my Samoan" thought he was one of his boys and was content with coasting it.
> 
> But I was completely wrong, he's one of the few in the business who actually have ambition.


I like that. Sounds like he was professional till the end. By the replies i read here, it sounds like he was even fine doing whatever they wanted with Nia (he didn't like it and knew it was burial but didn't refuse). 

That's how you should leave WWE. Finish up all your obligations until your contract ends, tough it out, then leave. Ambrose did it right and good for him. It just makes people like Sasha look childish in comparison imo.



Mister Abigail said:


> Surprised he didn't mention the Austin podcast.
> 
> Dirty Jericho will be rubbing his hands with greedy glee tonight.


I didn't listen yet but if I had to guess - Jericho absolutely wants to maintain a good relationship with Vince, so i doubt he wanted it to go too "toxic" in the promo department. 

Also - considering how insanely popular Austin is - sounds like Ambrose was smart enough to recognize that going after him might not be the best move, especially after so much time has passed.



Donnie said:


> He said he never spoke to AEW about money because it's not about that. It's about creativity and freedom.
> 
> :sodone


I'm sure he's exaggerating and if he isn't he's an idiot. He's one of the biggest free agents in the business and he deserves a ton of money and i hope he got it - if he signed for a lower than expected amount, he's really, really dumb.

I expect this didn't happen tho



BulletClubFangirl said:


> Didn't Stone Cold say he was complacent in the ring? Although maybe Mox could've been referring to ring agents as well when he said that.


I don't think attacking Stone Cold directly is a good PR move - especially after all this time. 



Cheetara86 said:


> I mean, I love Jon is looking out for Seth, but Seth is probably making close to 7 figures, positioned to Be the top guy with Roman and Brock...and WWE was always his dream job, so being a champion helps a lot.
> 
> I think it would take a act of god for Seth to leave the company.


I'm sure Seth is making upwards of 7 figures and that Ambrose was too - and could have so much more in WWE. You're underestimating.


----------



## V-Trigger

You just know that Renee is gone after her contract ends. Specially after this podcast goes viral. I'm sure that Cody has a job for her ready.


----------



## DoolieNoted

I like that Jericho shut.. the hell.. up.. for most of that.. 

MOX just casually verifying what a steaming shit-sandwich working for Vince can be was a really interesting listen.

Dude seems like he's got goals n shit..


----------



## LongPig666

...POOPER SCOOPER....!!! I laughed at first then it sank in the Benny Hill is CEO of WWE!!


----------



## Wynter

It's honestly impressive that despite the company legitimately making him depressed and physically sick. He still kept that fire and passion for wrestling. Whatever grievances he had with the company and specifically Vince, he didn't allow that to be stolen from him. He didn't allow them to twist his love for this business into something ugly and bitter. He just kept pushing through gritted teeth until he was free. 

Good on him.


----------



## Erik.

Can't wait to listen :mark:


----------



## Cooper09

Well that's Renee fucked then. One thing he said that sticks out is that he says he is soooo much happier now he's gone. It's like a replica of the CM Punk pod. 

Plus Moxley's Vince impression was horrendous :lol


----------



## Mox Girl

I absolutely love and agree with Mox saying that Brock is getting paid too much money to ruin WWE. HELL YES. He's totally right.


----------



## roadkill_

I hope this mud slinging spirals out of control like it did in the 1990's. A lot of smarks secretly want this too.

Can't fight that carny DNA. As soon as AEW becomes remotely successful I expect them to start flinging shit and Levesque will probably retaliate because of territorial carnyism. 

I hope there are childish skits and 'arena invasions' and all round petulant bullshit.


----------



## Ace

> “You wanna avoid nouns, because a noun can very quickly become a prop”


Is he talking about Mitch the plant? :lmao


----------



## kingnoth1n

Bobholly39 said:


> I like that. Sounds like he was professional till the end. By the replies i read here, it sounds like he was even fine doing whatever they wanted with Nia (he didn't like it and knew it was burial but didn't refuse).
> 
> That's how you should leave WWE. Finish up all your obligations until your contract ends, tough it out, then leave. Ambrose did it right and good for him. It just makes people like Sasha look childish in comparison imo.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't listen yet but if I had to guess - Jericho absolutely wants to maintain a good relationship with Vince, so i doubt he wanted it to go too "toxic" in the promo department.
> 
> Also - considering how insanely popular Austin is - sounds like Ambrose was smart enough to recognize that going after him might not be the best move, especially after so much time has passed.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure he's exaggerating and if he isn't he's an idiot. He's one of the biggest free agents in the business and he deserves a ton of money and i hope he got it - if he signed for a lower than expected amount, he's really, really dumb.
> 
> I expect this didn't happen tho
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think attacking Stone Cold directly is a good PR move - especially after all this time.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure Seth is making upwards of 7 figures and that Ambrose was too - and could have so much more in WWE. You're underestimating.




I'm going to go out on a limb and say you are the real Sparky Plug.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse

I haven't listened to much of it, just a few bits and pieces but its crazy because everything Moxley has said is valid and true, and I support him in every statement he made. But he still had it better than 95% of the roster, thats the crazy part. The WWE is so shit thesedays that a guy who absolutely hates being there and is miserable with how hes used was still used better than most are. Like I'd love to see Miz get treated even one tenth as well as Ambrose was.


----------



## Ace

Moxley became a smark god lol.


----------



## patpat

V-Trigger said:


> patpat said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think he might leave.
> 
> 
> 
> Not really, current Seth sounds like a company man.
Click to expand...

 him leaving seems unlikely but I think that might be more of a deal than anything that happened until now...i mean with how Ambrose was treated him leaving was such a big deal...and they made him look like such a star. Now imagine the guy that beat Lesnar and triple h at wrestlemania? :lol holy fuck but unfortunately you are right....they absolutely turned him into a bland uninteresting corporate guy....
Few years ago when he was talking about his black jesus, crossfit jesus idea and all of that you could feel dude had crazy and great ideas but now he just sounds like a corporate guy....sad.


----------



## LongPig666

Sorry for not editing my earlier post but....

...imaging going into your place of work one day and the CEO and senior management team wanted you to say something terrible about a friend and colleague suffering from cancer, because "ENTERTAINMENT". No wonder he needed a drink after every show.


----------



## FROSTY

Donnie said:


> SICK NICK MONDO made the video :cozy


WWE stans on Twitter were using the quality of the video as proof that Mox leaving WWE was a work att :lmao


----------



## patpat

V-Trigger said:


> You just know that Renee is gone after her contract ends. Specially after this podcast goes viral. I'm sure that Cody has a job for her ready.


 give me renee + alicia atout as backstage interviewer and I am the happiest fan ever! 


Ace said:


> Moxley became a smark god lol.


 anyone who is against wwe is a smark God:lol


----------



## Cheetara86

I do wonder if people like Sasha Banks, The Revival, etc... feel like this too? Like is Sasha buying her time till October, to peace out?

I mean Cody recently said that two of the biggest names that come up are Sasha Banks and Orton.


----------



## squarebox

Listening to it now. Told you so. It's all Vince. I'm glad I gave up on this company over a year ago. It's not changing until Vince and Stephanie are gone. There is absolutely 0 point in watching until that happens.

edit: I think this thread should be in the WWE section as well so WWE fans actually see it. There is no defending shit like this.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I have wondered for a long time, why I enjoyed Jon Moxley in NXT but could not get behind him on the Main Roster

This is now very clear to me - it isn't just as bad as we all think, it is worse.

This is the best pod I have listened to - better than Punk's

Mox has balls of steel - he ain't never going back. He'll sell all his shit and retire before going back

The shield is done

Mox has my respect and I am a fan once again


----------



## Bobholly39

Cheetara86 said:


> I do wonder if people like Sasha Banks, The Revival, etc... feel like this too? Like is Sasha buying her time till October, to peace out?
> 
> I mean Cody recently said that two of the biggest names that come up are Sasha Banks and Orton.


Orton was a pro about it. "Ill do whatever you want - when im done tho, im gone, no hard feelings - i just have no interest in resigning". And he stuck to his guns

Sasha just said "i want to quit and not work anymore" in the middle of a contract. Bid your time instead and work through it and then leave.

For all the wrongs of WWE - WWE still made Mox a TON of money and put him on the map. I love that he left the way he did, the right way.


----------



## ellthom

I'll listen this on my way home from work, don;t have time now. But I am looking forward to it.


----------



## Oneiros

I'd become a fan just from listening to this interview if I wasn't already. The fact that AEW has guys with that kind of mentality in the roster cheers me up and gives me hope for what's to come.


----------



## MoxleyMoxx

The Emancipation of Jon Moxley is a perfect name for this episode of the podcast. I am so glad that he got the fuck out of there when he did and that he can finally be happy while also doing what he loves.


----------



## looper007

Just listened to podcast and it had the same ring as Punk one, without him burying anyone besides Vince and his creative crew. His best interview to date imo.

I'm sure he isn't the only one in WWE feeling that way, that's why i buy the stories on Sasha Banks, Anderson/Gallows and The Revival been disgruntled. I'm sure there any many others among the talent that probably are the same as Moxley but cause it's the WWE and they get paid a lot they are happy to take it. 

But you probably get talent that are just happy to make their money, get fame and do what they are told as well. That's why you still will see talent sign with WWE even with AEW around, not everyone will have the push and desire like a Punk or Moxley. For most it's about making as much money as they can before their bodies break down.

I'm glad to see Moxley happy and doing his own thing. I'm sure with AEW around now, you will see more of these cases happening. Might not be at the level of a Moxley but I'm sure every year going forward now you will see at least one person leave WWE to jump aboard the AEW train.


----------



## TD Stinger

I listened to the 1st hour of that on the way to work. Will listen to the rest afterwards.

All I can say is damn, and good on him. Because he's a guy who would know. He's a guy who was at the top and had a lot of success and still choosing to leave because their creative process sucks.

That doesn't mean they can't do good things, and that doesn't mean a guy like Mox is always right. But more often than not, he is. And it just shows that things will never get better for that company until 1 of 3 things happens:

1. Vince quits
2. Someone overthrows Vince
3. Vince dies

If he wants to know why AEW even exists and why this movement is happening, he need only look in the mirror. And now he lost a guy like Ambrose/Mox because of it. And he doesn't realize something soon, this could only be the beginning.

But on the bright side, now we have Unscripted Moxley with all the name brand power of Dean Ambrose to go with it.


----------



## Donnie

SWITCHBLADE SHOOK said:


> WWE stans on Twitter were using the quality of the video as proof that Mox leaving WWE was a work att :lmao


Brainwashed folks who defend this shit show, and Vince himself are horrible people, old man frost

"Call Dave. Call HHH. Call Brock. I ain't you Huckleberry no more" :banderas


----------



## kendo_nagasaki

I'm an hour in, best shoot I've heard since CM Punk on Colt Cabana. 

It confirms everything in the dirt sheets for the last few months: Mox hating the way he was written, scripted promos suck yada yada ... Vince adding his own comedic styling to things at the eleventh hour


----------



## Beatles123

Let NO ONE deny it any longer!

VINCE

DOESN'T

KNOW

SHIT!


AEW is a godsend.


----------



## 751161

Jesus. WWE sounds like such a shitty place to work. No wonder there's so many talent that is just complacent these days, when they just get stripped of any creativity or freedom. So glad I stop watching that trash. 

Really hope Moxley tears it up in AEW, and shows Vince what he missed out on. Can't wait until he gets to cut promos off the cuff.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse

Bobholly39 said:


> Orton was a pro about it. "Ill do whatever you want - when im done tho, im gone, no hard feelings - i just have no interest in resigning". And he stuck to his guns
> 
> Sasha just said "i want to quit and not work anymore" in the middle of a contract. Bid your time instead and work through it and then leave.
> 
> For all the wrongs of WWE - WWE still made Mox a TON of money and put him on the map. I love that he left the way he did, the right way.


Moxley definitely went about it the "right" way, but its hard to really fault Sasha. It'd be hard to just grin and bear it, to suck up your pride and trudge through shit that's making you miserable. If you desperately want out of a job, or whatever that's depressing you and grinding you down it'd be hard not to just walk away from it immediately.


----------



## looper007

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> Moxley definitely went about it the "right" way, but its hard to really fault Sasha. It'd be hard to just grin and bear it, to suck up your pride and trudge through shit that's making you miserable. If you desperately want out of a job, or whatever that's depressing you and grinding you down it'd be hard not to just walk away from it immediately.


I think the tag title thing really pushed her over board, the fact she was probably promised they do a ton of stuff with her and Bayley and then at the last minute was told she was losing it. That might have been the breaking point. Sure she could suck it up and just do her job until her contract runs out and then don't resign. 

As I always say been in WWE isn't the be all and end all for some talent, one of the reasons I think Vince probably get's shocked when a Punk or Moxley want out and don't care what they are offered. I'm sure there are talent in WWE that are happy just to be there and get paid and do the stupid storylines and promos. You can tell who they are.


----------



## YoUAiNtWoRtHiT

That was a great listen. My conclusion: WWE ain't gonna be good again no time soon if ever.


----------



## bradatar

Fucking amazing podcast just listened in on my way into work. It basically confirms everything we've said on these forums for months. Vince is losing his mind, show is overly scripted, little to nothing as far as creative control..wow. Mox exposing what we all thought we know. Seriously awesome.


----------



## utvolzac

Good for Ambrose. Pro till the end. 

Basically confirms what everyone already knows, Vince is the problem.

I get that he wants creative freedom, but it’ll be interesting to see how far he’s allowed to go once he’s on TNT. It’s easy to do/say whatever you want on a ppv or indy show, it’s a whole different ballgame when you have networks, sponsors and twitter outrage culture to deal with.

What happens if they do something controversial and the twitter mob starts hounding the NBA about their affiliation with TNT. Turner isn’t going to piss off their bread and butter because some wrestling promotion wants creative freedom.


----------



## patpat

Bobholly39 said:


> Cheetara86 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do wonder if people like Sasha Banks, The Revival, etc... feel like this too? Like is Sasha buying her time till October, to peace out?
> 
> I mean Cody recently said that two of the biggest names that come up are Sasha Banks and Orton.
> 
> 
> 
> Orton was a pro about it. "Ill do whatever you want - when im done tho, im gone, no hard feelings - i just have no interest in resigning". And he stuck to his guns
> 
> Sasha just said "i want to quit and not work anymore" in the middle of a contract. Bid your time instead and work through it and then leave.
> 
> For all the wrongs of WWE - WWE still made Mox a TON of money and put him on the map. I love that he left the way he did, the right way.
Click to expand...

 lol except even as shitty as it was , Mosley was still treated from time to time like a bug deal and there was one or two shield reunion here and there. 
People comparing this with sasha jobning against everyone and their mother in the main roster....
Moxley after he got called up had great shit, the shield and all of that. When sasha banks got called up , she got buried since day one until the end. ( and let's not talk about those horrendous "title reign") 


Also at this point I dont even care if its Vince or not him the problem, done with this company. At one point everyone got to move on , even without Vince, this corporate ultra administrative environment wont disappear over night.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse

bradatar said:


> Fucking amazing podcast just listened in on my way into work. It basically confirms everything we've said on these forums for months. Vince is losing his mind, show is overly scripted, little to nothing as far as creative control..wow. Mox exposing what we all thought we know. Seriously awesome.


Its crazy really how all the bullshit we all speculate on is actually how WWE operates now. Things really are that bad.



YoUAiNtWoRtHiT said:


> That was a great listen. My conclusion: WWE ain't gonna be good again no time soon if ever.


The worrying thing is, you're probably right. Its hard to see WWE changing anytime soon, they're stuck in this rut and Vince has lost his mind.



looper007 said:


> I think the tag title thing really pushed her over board, the fact she was probably promised they do a ton of stuff with her and Bayley and then at the last minute was told she was losing it. That might have been the breaking point. Sure she could suck it up and just do her job until her contract runs out and then don't resign.
> 
> As I always say been in WWE isn't the be all and end all for some talent, one of the reasons I think Vince probably get's shocked when a Punk or Moxley want out and don't care what they are offered. *I'm sure there are talent in WWE that are happy just to be there and get paid and do the stupid storylines and promos.* You can tell who they are.


Sadly for me, my boy Miz is clearly one of "those" people.

And exactly with Sasha. Like its easy to say she should have just sucked it up and seen her contract out, but it was her at her breaking point. After years of being treated like shit she was thrown a bone with the Tag Titles and then WWE pulled the rug out from under her on a few moments notice. It'd be hard to keep turning up to something that depresses you, its why I cant bring myself to watch The Miz anymore. Its bit her in the ass a bit in that shes still stuck in WWE and they will be petty carnies about it and probably freeze her contract but it was still probably best for her mentally to get away from that environment.


----------



## BlackieDevil

Everyone here know that I'm not a fan of Mox... I shouldn't have listened to this interview. Now I actually like him and understand that he tried hard to fight a losing battle.


----------



## Death Rider

V-Trigger said:


> Shaun_27 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Made some time to listen to this later at work - does he mention Austin or Brock?
> 
> 
> 
> "Vince treats everything like an attraction".
> 
> "That's why he pays Brock millions to ruin his company".
Click to expand...

:done. Moxley may have become my favourite of all time just for this line


----------



## Mugging of Cena

I’ve been an fan of Ambrose since his US Championship run in the early Shield days, as many were. But after a while, all the silly antics added up, the SCSA podcast went off the rails and people jumped ship. I knew that he wasn’t the guy that people ripped as the Lunatic Cringe. 

It’s really emboldening to know that Mox knew all those antics were ridiculous but that if he couldn’t change Vince’s mind, he would do everything he could to get that goofy crap over. And he did many times. God bless you Jon Good.


----------



## looper007

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> Sadly for me, my boy Miz is clearly one of "those" people.
> 
> And exactly with Sasha. Like its easy to say she should have just sucked it up and seen her contract out, but it was her at her breaking point. After years of being treated like shit she was thrown a bone with the Tag Titles and then WWE pulled the rug out from under her on a few moments notice. It'd be hard to keep turning up to something that depresses you, its why I cant bring myself to watch The Miz anymore. Its bit her in the ass a bit in that shes still stuck in WWE and they will be petty carnies about it and probably freeze her contract but it was still probably best for her mentally to get away from that environment.


I wouldn't knock anyone who does stay, different strokes for different folks. I can understand why someone like the Miz puts up with the promo's and stuff cause WWE took a chance on a non wrestler and gave him all these things he probably dreamed about. People like Alexa, Carmella, Corbin, Mandy Rose probably are in the same boat as the Miz, they haven't been pro wrestler's all their lives and WWE is the only thing they know off and happy just to do their thing. But you also have cases of talent like Bayley who worked the indies but it comes off to me that been in WWE is her life. Talent like Kevin Owens who's just happy to do his job so he can take care of his family. 

Sasha and The Revival are probably in the same boat as Moxley. Been creatively happy and been able to do their own thing is more important then been in WWE.

With AEW around and if it becomes a success overtime on TV and PPV, you will see more of these Moxley type cases happening more often, as the talent have a place to go that will pay them just as well. It might not be top guys or girls, but it might be a upper mid carder who's a fan favorite or someone who WWE don't see big things in who goes over to AEW and becomes a star.


----------



## Asuka842

This lines up with what others, Punk and Batista being notable examples, have said about the backstage problems at WWE. Hell the part about knowing that your story is crap but being unable to change it is what Becky essentially said about her story going into WrestleMania as well.

I'm convinced that the only reason that they didn't fuck up KofiMania, is that it emerged so late in the game that they simply didn't have time to.


----------



## bradatar

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> Its crazy really how all the bullshit we all speculate on is actually how WWE operates now. Things really are that bad.
> 
> 
> 
> The worrying thing is, you're probably right. Its hard to see WWE changing anytime soon, they're stuck in this rut and Vince has lost his mind.
> 
> 
> 
> Sadly for me, my boy Miz is clearly one of "those" people.
> 
> And exactly with Sasha. Like its easy to say she should have just sucked it up and seen her contract out, but it was her at her breaking point. After years of being treated like shit she was thrown a bone with the Tag Titles and then WWE pulled the rug out from under her on a few moments notice. It'd be hard to keep turning up to something that depresses you, its why I cant bring myself to watch The Miz anymore. Its bit her in the ass a bit in that shes still stuck in WWE and they will be petty carnies about it and probably freeze her contract but it was still probably best for her mentally to get away from that environment.


My wife just listened to it. (She's at home so we are texting) She's like this is everything you have said to me from those forums! It's wild how we speculate and almost make it a joke, but it is real. I'm done with WWE I think. Nothing really interests me anymore, and they've buried all my favorites.


----------



## jroc72191

TheLooseCanon said:


> For the first time, it really hit me what he said. "I had to go into this old man's office and explain to him why this is a stupid idea". Man, just imagine your grandfather in charge of writing dialogue for you to say on live TV and you can't change his mind.


or my uncle whom i had this exchange with

"the presdients words were taken out of context you didnt see the whole quote? he literally condemned the nazis RIGHT AFTER the 'very fine people' comment taken out of context." 


"i dont need to see what he actually said i know he praised nazis"


this convo put some perspective on vince for me.


----------



## Asuka842

And of course the bit about him refusing to say a line about Roman's cancer because it was that bad lines up perfectly with the guy who gave us "Paige mocking Charlotte's dead brother," Randy Orton telling Rey Mysterio that his close friend Eddie Guerrero was in Hell," "The Riott Squad taunting Natalya about her dead father," etc. 

If I'm Sasha Banks right now, I'm seriously considering just saying "fuck it" and not going back.


----------



## BarrettBarrage

Can't wait for the WWE stans to try and spin this


----------



## Chan Hung

Wow first 5 min already interesting. Thank u for posting this . Gonna listen to all


----------



## bradatar

BarrettBarrage said:


> Can't wait for the WWE stans to try and spin this


They don't come into this sub too often. There's still a few brainwashed ones on here though. Have to be trolling at some point. Someone is saying in the RAW sub that RAW was good. I can't take someones opinion seriously when they say shit like that.


----------



## Chan Hung

In July 2018 Moxley says he knew he was gone. ....wow. so it's been in the making.


----------



## J0nMoxley

I can't wait to HEAR this.


----------



## bradatar

#Talkisjericho trending number 1 on Twitter

Telling you right now this is getting bigger and bigger. Knowing Vince thinks we're a bunch of idiots and doesn't care to improve the product turns me off WWE so damn much. This is going to open more eyes..


----------



## UniversalGleam

I loved that jericho did the same delayed laugh I did for the "you gotta say the pooper scooper line, its such good shit".

it does show that wwe didnt really care about romans cancer if they were trying to use it in promos. It was all about them as per usual. No wonder they tried to milk it.


----------



## Taroostyles

What a fantastic interview. He basically confirms what we all knew and that's that Vince is still in control of everything and he's the reason for all the stupidity.


----------



## NeyNey

Gonna listen to it a second time now. It's just so awesome.


----------



## Chan Hung

Wow midway thru. This is interesting! Love how Moxley narrates this and gives inside Info at the crazy b.s. he went thru


----------



## J0nMoxley

Wow that Roman bit was obvious that Mox hated that line and was uncomfortable, glad it was confirmed and goes to show you that WWE is the place to avoid.


----------



## RiverFenix

AEW should hire Nick Mondo for promo production vignettes. 

Gotta be awkward as hell for Renee now in WWE though, especially more so after this. I mean Vince is in her ear for 3 hours every Raw.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

No way Renee survives this - and frankly, I think that is their plan


----------



## Schwartzxz

Donnie said:


> Mox just said Vince is "allegedly a genius" JESUS FUCKING CHRIST


and its the fucking truth. as a promoter he is clearly great. but a creative genius? never.


----------



## Squeege

For a guy that has bashed Ambrose a lot in the last 2-3 years, I kinda regret everything I've said. The guy was literally the definition of 'neuteured.'

Christ...


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Damn, he didn't hold back. Everything he said about the creative process there we all already knew anyway.


----------



## DesoloutionRow

My friend MixleyMixx sent me this.

:wow


----------



## RiverFenix

I guess it shouldn't have, but Mox saying he's still only 33 yrs old surprised me.


----------



## Donnie

Squeege said:


> For a guy that has bashed Ambrose a lot in the last 2-3 years, I kinda regret everything I've said. The guy was literally the definition of 'neuteured.'
> 
> Christ...


Yeah, I feel like shit for a lot of things I said. I loved him for a long while, but there was a real long period where I couldn't stand him. Now we have our answer to why he seemed so unmotivated. Dude was depressed and miserable.


----------



## BarrettBarrage

Donnie said:


> Yeah, I feel like shit for a lot of things I said. I loved him for a long while, but there was a real long period where I couldn't stand him. Now we have our answer to why he seemed so unmotivated. Dude was depressed and miserable.


POOPER SCOOPER


----------



## Buhalovski

I wish more people could do the same. Fuckin hate the current pussies who only post cryptic shit on Twitter without doing anything.

Cody and co achieved more in a few months than people like Ziggler for their entire careers.


----------



## Squeege

Tsvetoslava said:


> I wish more people could do the same. Fuckin hate the current pussies who only post cryptic shit on Twitter without doing anything.
> 
> Cody and co achieved more in a few months than people like Ziggler for their entire careers.


Ziggler is definitely a guy that should have gotten the fuck out once his contract was run (which I believe was sometime this year). Could have REALLY done with a new coat of paint and some creative freedom. This new gimmick he has where he attacks Kofi and talks in a really whiny, teen going through puberty, type voice might be his most annoying yet and you know Vince is probably loving it.


----------



## Scissor Me Daddy-O!!

I'm shocked how much of dirtsheets were true. I'm shocked out how shackled talents are. I'm upset that smarks are going to abuse this and suck the dick of any dirtsheet for the next year. 

That was an awesome interview. It was pleasing to get answers as to why WWE has been terrible the past year. It's nice to know the reason, although highly speculated the past many years. 

I'd liked it to have been longer :lmao more stories of bullshit he's had to put up with. Wrestling, arguably entertainment, is the last thing on WWE's mind it seems. 




BlackieDevil said:


> Everyone here know that I'm not a fan of Mox... I shouldn't have listened to this interview. Now I actually like him and understand that he tried hard to fight a losing battle.


I don't even know who you are.


----------



## roblewis87

reminded me a lot of the Punk Podcast,

Sure others feel this way too, I reckon Sasha Banks will be an interesting interview one day. 

Can't see the WWE not punishing Renee at some point in all of this, they are that petty.


----------



## Geeee

I think my favorite part of this interview was how the dirt sheets were just sort of hovering around the truth.

"Dean Ambrose is working on a film project" but his film project was a promo video for getting out of dodge lol.


----------



## xdxdxcx

Who cares what he says? Wrestlers tend to talk shit about their old company. Just how it goes. Yawn aew fanboys going nuts over something a midcarder said. Funny stuff really. Dude sucked when he was champ. Period. Got hurt and now whines. Hahaha won’t miss him myself..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chan Hung

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> AEW should hire Nick Mondo for promo production vignettes.
> 
> Gotta be awkward as hell for Renee now in WWE though, especially more so after this. I mean Vince is in her ear for 3 hours every Raw.


I thought of the same thing they should hire him to help with the production if you can do that with Moxley wow


----------



## Stellar

Listening to Moxley be vocal about creative in WWE is definitely worth the hour and half. He didn't come off as bitter at WWE as a whole (more like at creative). Just wanted out of the place to be happy about wrestling again.

Renee wont be "punished" from this. Shes well liked from pretty much everyone. It would backfire on WWE big time if they did just because shes married to him.


----------



## TripleG

Oh my goodness...


----------



## Chan Hung

cesaro_ROCKS said:


> I'm shocked how much of dirtsheets were true. I'm shocked out how shackled talents are. I'm upset that smarks are going to abuse this and suck the dick of any dirtsheet for the next year.
> 
> That was an awesome interview. It was pleasing to get answers as to why WWE has been terrible the past year. It's nice to know the reason, although highly speculated the past many years.
> 
> I'd liked it to have been longer <img src="http://www.wrestlingforum.com/images/smilies/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="" title="ROFLMAO" class="inlineimg" /> more stories of bullshit he's had to put up with. Wrestling, arguably entertainment, is the last thing on WWE's mind it seems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlackieDevil said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone here know that I'm not a fan of Mox... I shouldn't have listened to this interview. Now I actually like him and understand that he tried hard to fight a losing battle.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't even know who you are.
Click to expand...

Furthermore that interview proves just how out-of-touch Vince McMahon really is and how crazy the process is just to try to get something simple changed it seems like it's a pain in the butt and there's really no freedom in there to do anything with your character no wonder everybody wants out


----------



## Squeege

xdxdxcx said:


> Who cares what he says? Wrestlers tend to talk shit about their old company. Just how it goes. Yawn aew fanboys going nuts over something a midcarder said. Funny stuff really. Dude sucked when he was champ. Period. Got hurt and now whines. Hahaha won’t miss him myself..
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Erik.

Interesting to see that hes fine to use social media now yet never did during WWE.

I wonder why?

Also thought it was pathetic that they paid him $500 for The Shield special on the Network because it was the same price that "background talent" get..

Why even give him a fucking special?


----------



## Patrick Sledge

Wow. RIP WWE. LOL!!!!!!


----------



## Cthulhu R'lyeh

What an ungrateful SOB. Dean Ambrose is nothing without Vince McMahon.


----------



## Mordecay

Erik. said:


> Interesting to see that hes fine to use social media now yet never did during WWE.
> 
> I wonder why?
> 
> Also thought it was pathetic that they paid him $500 for The Shield special on the Network because it was the same price that "background talent" get..
> 
> Why even give him a fucking special?


Probably the house show wasn't selling all that well and promoting it as "The Shield's last chapter" would help sell some more tickets.

Anyways, awesome interview, probably the most telling interview since Punk's in The Art of Wrestling, although he pretty much said what everyone suspected. Knowing how petty Vince is, can't wait for them to induct the Shield to the HOF and say that it was just Rollins and Reigns :lmao


----------



## Mugging of Cena

Mox Girl said:


> I feel kinda awful for enjoying his WWE storylines now :/
> 
> I haven't had time to listen yet, but judging by what I'm reading in here, he didn't seem to like anything WWE gave him. Makes me wonder whether he even liked The Shield?


All the problems he mentioned sounded like post Shield, solo stuff. Also, don’t feel bad for enjoying the goofy stuff. Dean said he prides himself on making silly crap actually work.


----------



## looper007

Erik. said:


> Interesting to see that hes fine to use social media now yet never did during WWE.
> 
> I wonder why?
> 
> Also thought it was pathetic that they paid him $500 for The Shield special on the Network because it was the same price that "background talent" get..
> 
> Why even give him a fucking special?


That was laughable wasn't it. You can see why he wanted out of WWE, it must be one of the most stifling creative places around.

Seen your Austin pic always reminded me of what Moxley said that AE era talent telling people. don't be afraid to challenge Vince. I love Austin but he's got to remember it's just a different WWE now to the one he pretty much saved. You got the Hollywood writers and Vince is now a billionare who has to answer to other people. I don't think an Austin or Rock would get over now in this WWE.


----------



## BulletClubFangirl

Cthulhu R'lyeh said:


> What an ungrateful SOB. Dean Ambrose is nothing without Vince McMahon.


Are there any 19'ers who aren't obvious trolls?


----------



## Jedah

Bawled over when he impersonated Vince with the shots promo.

"HEY PAL, SO THIS PROMO...I WANT YOU TO KNOW THIS IS *NOT* COMEDY. THIS IS SUCH GOOD STUFF....IT'S *SO WELL WRITTEN*...AND IT'S GONNA GET YOU A TON OF HEAT." :vince5 :vince2 :vince :vince3 :vince :vince6

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

Anyway, not anything we didn't know already, but hearing it direct from the horse's mouth carries its own weight. As I said last night, there's basically no point in watching anymore. No hope. Everyone is going to be misused one way or another, because "THEIR CREATIVE PROCESS SUCKS." 

Happy for Mox. He's free and he is making a difference.


----------



## TripleG

I just listened to the "Pooper Scooper" story, and I'm half dead with laughter.


----------



## The3

This is why WWE need to go after body builders with acting skills people like Deam Ambrose, Sasha Banks, AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, Sami Sayn , Kevin Owner, etc, etc, are not going to be cool with following a television scripts and you want to control the wrestlers because you have keep sponsorships happy so just bring in actors that look like wrestlers... Go get 10 more Brock Lesnars


----------



## Vic

First of all Moxley is an absolute professional of a human being. I always joked about him being the weak link of Shield with the Shield brehs (obviously meant nothing by it) and the second half of his WWE title run sold me on him as a talent because it was so fun. However, after that interview I have the utmost respect for this man. Absolute workhorse trying his damnedest to make the best out of an eternally bad situation. Second of all, $500? FIVE-HUNDRED FUCKING DOLLARS!? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME MOTHER FUCKER? 

This man literally killed himself just so your old geriatric senile ass could pop a smile for your elementary brand comedy, waits out his entire fucking deal without requesting a release out of respect for you, and you build an entire show around him for a quick buck just to send him home with fucking $500 fucking dollars? Fuck you, you scummy piece of shit. You pay a top tier talent shit you pay mother fuckers for walking in the God damn arena doors in his last fucking match? Why the fuck are they even getting paid that shit speaking of? Bitch I don’t give a shit if I’m just “walking in the door” I don’t want the opportunity to kill myself for you for fucking $500 that’s local promotion bullshit. You run a fucking billions dollar company and you give me $500 for walking in the fucking door let alone the Moxley shit?

Why aren’t these people fucking suing your dick off right now? Damn that respect shit get your fucking money people and Network made it even worse. Wouldn’t doubt if Vince did that shit just for the sake of avoiding PPV bonuses. Nickle and diming dickhead.


----------



## bradatar

Jedah said:


> Bawled over when he impersonated Vince with the shots promo.
> 
> "HEY PAL, SO THIS PROMO...I WANT YOU TO KNOW THIS IS *NOT* COMEDY. THIS IS SUCH GOOD STUFF....IT'S *SO WELL WRITTEN*...AND IT'S GONNA GET YOU A TON OF HEAT." :vince5 :vince2 :vince :vince3 :vince :vince6
> 
> :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao
> 
> Anyway, not anything we didn't know already, but hearing it direct from the horse's mouth carries its own weight. As I said last night, there's basically no point in watching anymore. No hope. Everyone is going to be misused one way or another, because "THEIR CREATIVE PROCESS SUCKS."
> 
> Happy for Mox. He's free and he is making a difference.


This was the biggest thing to me. 'There's basically no point in watching anymore'. Vince thinks we are idiots, Vince doesn't think the product is trash, Vince doesn't think AEW is competition, and all of this is going to bite him in the ass come Autumn.


----------



## patpat

Now he needs to sit around a table with Kenny omega and plane a rock-Austin-tier rivalry
And when you listen to him, he has the EXACT same ideology as omega the bucks cody and Kenny. I already said, this is going to work because even tho there are many cook in the kitchen, they have the exact same mindset. 
Going to be a ride people


----------



## looper007

The3 said:


> This is why WWE need to go after body builders with acting skills people like Deam Ambrose, Sasha Banks, AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, Sami Sayn , Kevin Owner, etc, etc, are not going to be cool with following a television scripts and you want to control the wrestlers because you have keep sponsorships happy so just bring in actors that look like wrestlers... Go get 10 more Brock Lesnars


Or maybe get rid of the writers and let the wrestlers do their own promo's like WWE did back in the 90's and 80's. This is pro wrestling and not movies. Brock Lesnar's don't grow on trees you know, he's a one in a generation talent.


----------



## Jedah

"AND YOU'LL GET RABIES...AND OF COURSE...YOU KNOW...UH...DISTEMPER...WHICH....YOU KNOW...PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THAT...YOU KNOW...IT'S FOR DOGS! HEH! HEH!" :vince :vince2 :vince3 :vince5 :vince6


----------



## The3

looper007 said:


> Or maybe get rid of the writers and let the wrestlers do their own promo's like WWE did back in the 90's and 80's. This is pro wrestling and not movies. Brock Lesnar's don't grow on trees you know, he's a one in a generation talent.


But that something they don't want to do because in this Feminst/SJW/PC era of tv you have to be careful not get those sponsors upset










^^ Look Boxing Lou DiBella blashing WWE , Men vs Women idea


----------



## BlackieDevil

Chan Hung said:


> Furthermore that interview proves just how out-of-touch Vince McMahon really is and how crazy the process is just to try to get something simple changed it seems like it's a pain in the butt and there's really no freedom in there to do anything with your character no wonder everybody wants out


His sense of humor is the worst, man.


----------



## Matthew Castillo

The3 said:


> This is why WWE need to go after body builders with acting skills people like Deam Ambrose, Sasha Banks, AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, Sami Sayn , Kevin Owner, etc, etc, are not going to be cool with following a television scripts and you want to control the wrestlers because you have keep sponsorships happy so just bring in actors that look like wrestlers... Go get 10 more Brock Lesnars


See the problem with that plan is that anyone good enough to get anything out of WWE's awful scripts, is good enough to take a job where they don't have to travel constantly, or get kicked in the face on a regular basis. It's also assuming that actors don't have egos, or ever go off script. It will also shoot the in ring product in the head because at that point we're not even talking old school wrestlers like Hulk Hogan, we're talking guys like Tiny Lister as Zeus.


----------



## Necrolust

What a depressing environment. You cannot help to feel sorry for so many people there. Wrestlers not allowed to be wrestlers. This is not a job you do because it shows up in job offers. You do this because you love it and Vince seem to strangle every joy out of your dream.


----------



## Jedah

Vince paying "millions to Brock to ruin his company" just so he can keep Brock as "his attraction" makes all the sense in the world too. Now I wonder what happens with him seemingly not having any UFC options.

He really is killing his own company just to stroke his ego. I don't know how investors and the networks can't be rattled by this stuff. If there was a real board of directors he'd have been gone long ago.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Jesus Christ. The moment he went to a company that took the shackles off, his star power has increased tenfold. He's currently generating more buzz than the RAW main event scene. Not only at present, but he's generating more buzz _worldwide_ than the RAW main eventers when they were battling for the top title in the company at WrestleMania.










Worldwide is the key, because in many parts of the world, WWE is all they know as far as professional wrestling goes.

Great podcast, too, which will only draw more interest.


----------



## The Capo

I consider myself somewhat of a WWE apologist but this really makes them look pathetic. I also respect mox even more than I did before.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Patrick Sledge

just about an hour in.....good fucking god the disdain in moxley's voice is hilarious. "if youre gonna have a scottish psychopath in your corner...I'M GONNA HAVE A LUNATIC IN MINE!"

"THEY RUIN EVERYTHING!"


----------



## wkdsoul

Sounds alot like Punks gripes and that was 5 years ago.


----------



## squarebox

BarrettBarrage said:


> Can't wait for the WWE stans to try and spin this


The ones on these forums won't because they probably don't venture outside of the bubble (WWE) sections of the forum.


----------



## Prosper

Great fuckin interview. He buried the shit out of WWE.


----------



## Disputed

looper007 said:


> Or maybe get rid of the writers and let the wrestlers do their own promo's like WWE did back in the 90's and 80's. This is pro wrestling and not movies. Brock Lesnar's don't grow on trees you know, he's a one in a generation talent.


Imagine thinking Brock Lesnar was just some joe bodybuilder and not a 1 in a million freak athlete

"Just get 10 Lesnars!" Wow how did nobody think of this before, genius


----------



## jeffatron

This is goooood stuff!


----------



## ellthom

Finally watched it on the way home from work, was a good listen but it pretty much just solidifies what we already know. It even gives credence to some of the stuff CM Punk said too.

Although if there's one thing I can take away from this whole thing is how relatable it was to me at a point in my life, I was in a shit job once where no one was listening to my import, total frustration with management, hating my job so much but just sucking it in until the time was right to move. Anyone who has been in a shitty job can relate to Moxly 

Also Jericho's bit about Virgil towards the end made me laugh too loud on the bus


----------



## The3

Matthew Castillo said:


> See the problem with that plan is that anyone good enough to get anything out of WWE's awful scripts, is good enough to take a job where they don't have to travel constantly, or get kicked in the face on a regular basis. It's also assuming that actors don't have egos, or ever go off script. It will also shoot the in ring product in the head because at that point we're not even talking old school wrestlers like Hulk Hogan, we're talking guys like Tiny Lister as Zeus.


Right just look at John Morrison , He work like 100 less days that most WWE guys he gets to make movies on the side.... Its bad time for WWE can't do anything because of its crazy schedule and sponsors controlling things


----------



## llj

Finally hear it from the mouth of a current day wrestler who actually accomplished a lot in the company. Vince is out of touch. Creative is shits. It's exhausting to go out there and perform this shit you know is beneath you and that you know won't work.


----------



## Patrick Sledge

it's sad how fucked up WWE is internally. Pushed Jonathan Goode to the point of being physically ill and harboring serious resentments towards that company.

AEW will become ECW 2.0 and bury WWE long term.


----------



## TheLooseCanon

Patrick Sledge said:


> just about an hour in.....good fucking god the disdain in moxley's voice is hilarious. "if youre gonna have a scottish psychopath in your corner...I'M GONNA HAVE A LUNATIC IN MINE!"
> 
> "THEY RUIN EVERYTHING!"


I love that he knew how cringe that shit is. Everything they write for these guys are embarrassing. Embarrassing to the fans, embarrassing to the wrestlers, embarrassing to wrestling.


----------



## Desecrated

It's all pretty much par for the course at this point. But Vince is always going to have loyalists, whether it's backstage, in the offices or in the stocks & business affiliates. Triple H especially is a loyalist, regardless of any stories of dissent. Businesses & governments pay to work with Vince McMahon. But he's gotta allow delegation now. If the employees that make up your product are that dissatisfied, find ways to help them rather than go carny on them like what happened in December. Every one of them appeared to buy into the idea of change and we can clearly see they are just as unhappy that nothing did, except Vince has taken some delegation away from Paul/HHH (which is clearly why he's been spreading some unhappiness, he's lost a bit of clout on live TV).



BulletClubFangirl said:


> Are there any 19'ers who aren't obvious trolls?


Just report him. He's not even subtle. Clear baiting.


----------



## TripleG

Patrick Sledge said:


> just about an hour in.....good fucking god the disdain in moxley's voice is hilarious. "if youre gonna have a scottish psychopath in your corner...I'M GONNA HAVE A LUNATIC IN MINE!"
> 
> "THEY RUIN EVERYTHING!"


That all about sums it up, lol.


----------



## Laughable Chimp

Patrick Sledge said:


> it's sad how fucked up WWE is internally. Pushed Jonathan Goode to the point of being physically ill and harboring serious resentments towards that company.
> 
> AEW will become ECW 2.0 and bury WWE long term.


Comments to the videos are saying he doesn't really sound like he harbors serious resentment to the company, its more just frustration and disappointment, unlike Punk.


----------



## llj

*Re: Jon Moxley “Talk is Jericho” highlights aka Goes the fuck in on Vince*



Cheetara86 said:


> He did put over the WWE for being the place he was able to travel with, meet fans all over, do Make a Wish, and meet his future wife and best friend.


Yeah, it sounds like, for a lot of WWE wrestlers out there, it's the friendships and the traveling that's the only selling point for the WWE, aside from the money. Everything else is trash.


----------



## Death Rider

ellthom said:


> Finally watched it on the way home from work, was a good listen but it pretty much just solidifies what we already know. It even gives credence to some of the stuff CM Punk said too.
> 
> Although if there's one thing I can take away from this whole thing is how relatable it was to me at a point in my life, I was in a shit job once where no one was listening to my import, total frustration with management, hating my job so much but just sucking it in until the time was right to move. Anyone who has been in a shitty job can relate to Moxly ?
> 
> Also Jericho's bit about Virgil towards the end made me laugh too loud on the bus


As someone who was so fucking done with a shit job Ambrose is ten times more professional then I was


----------



## zkorejo

When CM Punk said it all, I remember some people calling him a whiny bitch. There it is, WWE just wants braindead yes men with athleticism to play a part in Vince's Pooper Scooper Funhouse for his own amusement. 

I must say, this is the first time since Austin podcast I heard Mox speak (that was a disaster) in an interview and I actually like him alot more here than I did. Seems like a very reasonable, professional and humble guy who actually has a passion for his job, yet somehow WWE still failed to keep him content.


----------



## Erik.

zkorejo said:


> When CM Punk said it all, I remember some people calling him a whiny bitch. There it is, WWE just wants braindead yes men with athleticism to play a part in Vince's Pooper Scooper Funhouse for his own amusement.
> 
> I must say, this is the first time since Austin podcast I heard Mox speak (that was a disaster) in an interview and I actually like him alot more here than I did. Seems like a very reasonable, professional and humble guy who actually has a passion for his job, yet somehow WWE still failed to keep him content.


Ryback has basically said all the same stuff too and he got a shit ton of abuse on Twitter for it because he isn't a big name like Punk or Moxley and was just being called bitter.


----------



## llj

Erik. said:


> Ryback has basically said all the same stuff too and he got a shit ton of abuse on Twitter for it because he isn't a big name like Punk or Moxley and was just being called bitter.


The perception is that Ryback (and Punk) were egotistical guys with inflated heads, even though everything they said rang true if you really listened.

Ambrose's critique is more damning to many fans because he generally comes across as an ordinary guy who just wants to put out a good product. He doesn't seem as interested in accolades and such, I mean he was just IC champ a few months ago and went over the current Universal champ clean. But the creative is so bad that winning anything seems meaningless in this company.


----------



## virus21

Vic said:


> Why aren’t these people fucking suing your dick off right now? Damn that respect shit get your fucking money people and Network made it even worse. Wouldn’t doubt if Vince did that shit just for the sake of avoiding PPV bonuses. Nickle and diming dickhead.


No kidding. Dixie Carter had 7 fucking lawsuits for pulling shady shit and Vince had done just as bad if not worse for a lot longer.


----------



## Zapato

The only thing I would raise is that whilst Ambrose has ensured he did not come across as bitter, I think he would have been better placed not to comment on this at all and let his new persona, in ring etc do the talking and prove those he was frustrated with wrong that way.

I mentioned ages back in that thread about him leaving about how I saw it as a similar scenario to when Christian went, he had to leave to find himself whilst seeing others reach the top and reinvent himself and make his mark on his own. For whatever reason as Christian has said himself Vince just didn’t fancy him as that top guy whilst he saw Edge and others rise up, so he didn’t complain he just ran his deal down and went and made his mark. Then after doing that returned after making his statement. I don’t recall him ever saying anything about WWE to any real extent when he went so I apologise if I’m wrong, and I personally think Ambrose/Moxley should have done the same. Something along the lines of saying ‘that doors closed, a new ones opened, I’m making my mark etc etc’. 

A interview like this just comes across to me as feeding the trolls and Meltzer and co, and could bite him in the arse. But that’s on him I guess, and I also hope he did this off his own back rather than being encouraged by Cody/Jericho/whoever as AEW need to be bigging themselves up on their own merit rather than continually taking digs at WWE. Also, what happens if Moxley doesn’t like the ideas Cody and co have for him?


----------



## Prosper

This just makes me support Sasha Banks even more in her decision to get the fuck out of there. She is absolutely justified in wanting to quit. WWE is filled with a bunch of wrestlers who have had the passion, creativity, and love of the sport drained out of them. Money means nothing at that point.


----------



## Cas Ras

Interesting, just finished with it.
Yeah Moxley confirms that the creative process is a mess due incompetent writers, Vince toilet humour and just a generally messy system.
He also confirms that Vince is very good at convincing people, but it is mostly bs behind that.
Nothing is especially news, but he is very good at relatable explaining through examples of his conversation with the creative team why it was so painful to work with there.

Rare Meltzer accolade warranted here btw., this another AEW-WWE story where Meltzer was spot on, this is right what he reported why Ambrose was unhappy. I think the guy is easily influenced by flaternity, giving for example his sources in all companies better star ratings and stuff, but he has been since months getting the infos mostly right, despite the weirdo anti-meltzer/aew pundits on the net ridiculing him everytime about such stories (thinking themselves the Pac thing was a work, AEW had to pay for the tv spot..).


----------



## virus21

The sad fact is despite all the billions he made, the connections to mainstream entertainment, to media outlets, Vince still runs the company like a backwater carny show.


----------



## zkorejo

Also Cody.. except he didnt say anything on any podcast and tbh, when he left his name value was that of a jobber so people would have called him bitter. Thats the point I'm trying to make. Any wrestler who has any passion for this art will want to be allowed creative input into his stuff. 

The new wave of wrestlers are 99% fans who grew up watching Bret/HBK/Austin/Rock.. they want to make an impact and have fun. While WWE wants merely puppets except for a select few who are pushed seriously because in Vince's opinion they have the right look.


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS

BulletClubFangirl said:


> Are there any 19'ers who aren't obvious trolls?


No, because no one new is actually joining because WWE is killing interest in wrestling so to the extent that we get new members they're guaranteed to be trolls who are so far up Vince McMahon's butt that the constant criticism has turned them bitter past the point of contributing anything worthwhile


----------



## Desecrated

Zapato said:


> A interview like this just comes across to me as feeding the trolls and Meltzer and co, and could bite him in the arse. But that’s on him I guess, and I also hope he did this off his own back rather than being encouraged by Cody/Jericho/whoever as AEW need to be bigging themselves up on their own merit rather than continually taking digs at WWE. Also, what happens if Moxley doesn’t like the ideas Cody and co have for him?


Or it just tells you where the stories are coming from internally? Him getting his story out also protects his former co-workers. Protectionist attitude is just backwards. If his stories can get some dialogue towards improving the treatment of his ex co-workers, it's a win. Biting tongues have never done anyone good. Fuck 'dem unions, eh?


----------



## Geeee

Communist Anti-capitalist said:


> No, because no one new is actually joining because WWE is killing interest in wrestling so to the extent that we get new members they're guaranteed to be trolls who are so far up Vince McMahon's butt that the constant criticism has turned them bitter past the point of contributing anything worthwhile


Probably most of them are posters that were previously banned


----------



## wkdsoul

Same issues, new guy... same old story, but the fish leaving are getting bigger Vince..


----------



## Soul_Body

Yo I'm seriously thinking about making a thread about this in the general WWE thread(That is if somebody have made one already). Wwe stans need to give this a listen too.


----------



## llj

Soul_Body said:


> Yo I'm seriously thinking about making a thread about this in the general WWE thread(That is if somebody have made one already). Wwe stans need to give this a listen too.


WWE "stans" probably would just blame Mox for being bitter. Hell there already are some in this thread.

But, at least online, those people seem to be a minority and the consensus is that Mox is spitting truth here.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

TripleG said:


> I just listened to the "Pooper Scooper" story, and I'm half dead with laughter.


I hope you weren't eating when you listened to it. I was and almost paid for it. 

Whole podcast was everything I wanted and more. I am relieved all he had to go through didn't kill his love of wrestling all together. It did suck listening to him saying that the thing he loved doing the most(promos) became what he dreaded because of the goofy shit they were going to have him say.


----------



## Zapato

Desecrated said:


> Or it just tells you where the stories are coming from internally? Him getting his story out also protects his former co-workers. Protectionist attitude is just backwards. If his stories can get some dialogue towards improving the treatment of his ex co-workers, it's a win. Biting tongues have never done anyone good. Fuck 'dem unions, eh?


Oh more than a fair point, I just hope that this is one and done if that was his intention. I just think you have to pick your moments and this could be a little too soon especially if he harps on again about this and instead for me I think he needs to let his actions do the talking and let the speculators speculate. Walk the walk then talk the talk. But again that’s me, Moxley is his own man and he did not come across as bitter it’s just there’s a fine line to tread.


----------



## Erik.

Soul_Body said:


> Yo I'm seriously thinking about making a thread about this in the general WWE thread(That is if somebody have made one already). Wwe stans need to give this a listen too.


Someone tried and it got closed, so I wouldn't bother.

I'm sure most of the WWE stans are on reddit and it's blown up over there.


----------



## llj

The Saudi deal is the worst thing to happen to the WWE these last 2 years because it hides so much of what's been wrong with the product with $$$$. Now, those TV deals contribute to it too but one assumes they would have gotten those big deals even without the short ratings bump early in 2018.

But that Saudi deal gives them a parachute to really do fuck all for the next 10 years. Without it, these tanking numbers lately would hurt much more.


----------



## Eric Fleischer

Not as juicy as Punk's, but just confirms what we knew.

Thank you Mox.


----------



## bradatar

Soul_Body said:


> Yo I'm seriously thinking about making a thread about this in the general WWE thread(That is if somebody have made one already). Wwe stans need to give this a listen too.


Looks like someone already did it and it is deleted. I'd like this thread to somehow be shared on General WWE too. I genuinely got angry listening to this. Like we all said, we all knew this but had no proof. This is our proof that WWE doesn't give a shit about their consumers.


----------



## NeyNey

Soul_Body said:


> Yo I'm seriously thinking about making a thread about this in the general WWE thread(That is if somebody have made one already). Wwe stans need to give this a listen too.


Yeah I mean CM Punk/ Cabana podcast thread was there too, as far as I remember. 
But I just wanna see it thrending tho. :lol


----------



## Patrick Sledge

After hearing to the pod, I called 911 to report a senior citizen buried alive.


----------



## bradatar

Erik. said:


> Someone tried and it got closed, so I wouldn't bother.
> 
> I'm sure most of the WWE stans are on reddit and it's blown up over there.


I'm on Reddit all day at work, and it has been generally pretty pro-Mox dude. I think a LOT of stans are choking on their words today.


----------



## sbuch

25 mins in and Jericho sounds worried they're about to burn ALL the bridges lol


----------



## Zapato

Can I ask what this ‘stans’ thing is about by the way, are people not allowed to frequent both products?


----------



## bradatar

Zapato said:


> Can I ask what this ‘stans’ thing is about by the way, are people not allowed to frequent both products?


I like both. (Granted this podcast made my stance on WWE even more negative) I wasn't even pro AEW until they proved themself Saturday. Stans are people who won't give a product a chance and basically act like children holding their ears and screaming.


----------



## Zapato

bradatar said:


> I like both. (Granted this podcast made my stance on WWE even more negative) I wasn't even pro AEW until they proved themself Saturday. Stans are people who won't give a product a chance and basically act like children holding their ears and screaming.


Oh okay, I assumed that’s what it was but that’s par for course on the internet. Just like what you like and let others rant away.


----------



## Zappers

What's funny about this entire thing. Wrestlers complaining that creative/writers have bad ideas which are ruining the show. Then they go on to tell people, Well I stood up to them and no way I'm not gonna do that or say that. I told told Vince this , I told Vince that.....

Well guess what geniuses. THAT'S the final product we saw. The wrestlers ideas coming to life. :duck

The ratings and crap product is on you, the wrestler. You didn't want to do what you were told. Thought you knew better. Obviously, you didn't. Nobody to blame but yourself for not doing your job.


----------



## A-C-P

Wonder how many times we hear this same story before some will start to accept this is the truth of the WWE.

Not that I needed to hear it again, but good on Harper and Sasha Banks for standing up for themselves as well currently.


----------



## Rated Phenomenal

Its still a work


----------



## Jedah

It's pretty much pro-Mox across the board. We've known all these things for years and years but here again, someone who was very high up on the talent ladder is saying all of this. This isn't just some disgruntled guy that couldn't "make it."

Despite knowing all these things for years, it really feels like the crisis has been accelerating during the last year, especially since November. First there was that string of awful Raws, then the false mea culpa, the botching beyond belief of the Mania main event, and now the "wild card" idiocy that's made both shows somehow worse. All this in the midst of tanking ratings, people wanting out, higher-ups in the company, including Triple H, Shane, and even Staphanie supposedly being upset at Vince, Fox and USA putting pressure on the company, the continued PR ulcer of the Saudi deal, and obviously, the smash success that Double or Nothing was, showing that competition isn't a fluke - it's real and it's coming, _soon_.

But the company has built such a straitjacket around its leader, like Mox was talking about, that it's doubtful it can maneuver to do anything as long as Vince is sitting on that throne.

For the millionth time, he needs to go, and if the company had a real board of directors, he'd have been forced out long ago.


----------



## arch.unleash

Vince is a legit psychopath.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Zapato said:


> Can I ask what this ‘stans’ thing is about by the way, are people not allowed to frequent both products?


'Stan' comes from that Eminem song

About Stan that writes him 'fan letters'

It is someone who is a manic fan, above all reason or proof or logic

that is why 'Stan' is compliment as well in some cases.

"I stan Moxley right now"


----------



## Disputed

Rated Phenomenal said:


> Its still a work


Its the greatest work of all time I tell you, Kenny Omega and Vince McMahon hang out and play street fighter all the time, they're laughing at you marks as we speak


----------



## Geeee

Zapato said:


> Can I ask what this ‘stans’ thing is about by the way, are people not allowed to frequent both products?


The term Stan comes from the Eminem song of the same name about an extremely obsessed fan.


----------



## Patrick Sledge

this WWE work is really taking off, for sure. I bet vince scripted that entire podcast.

HE'S A GENIUS!


----------



## Zappers

Interesting how Jon brings up a very specific promo he was told to do. But doesn't remember any of what they wanted him to do. Blamed it on, he's done hundreds of promos, they all mesh. Also clearly stated that they weren't what a cool person would do, what someone you would hang with, someone a relatable person would do.

Newsflash Jon. Your not cool, your not relatable, and nobody would want to hang with you. Your on air character/persona is a lunatic. A mental case, an unstable person roaming the WWE. That stuff they wanted you to do fit the bill to a T.


----------



## DOTL

Moxley is a smart dude.



Zappers said:


> Interesting how Jon brings up a very specific promo he was told to do. But doesn't remember any of what they wanted him to do. Blamed it on, he's done hundreds of promos, they all mesh. Also clearly stated that they weren't what a cool person would do, what someone you would hang with, someone a relatable person would do.
> 
> Newsflash Jon. Your not cool, your not relatable, and nobody would want to hang with you. Your on air character/persona is a lunatic. A mental case, an unstable person roaming the WWE. That stuff they wanted you to do fit the bill to a T.


WWE's creative is indefensible. The very fact he can't remember the content but remembers that it made him feel like garbage is testament to that.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Zappers said:


> Interesting how Jon brings up a very specific promo he was told to do. But doesn't remember any of what they wanted him to do. Blamed it on, he's done hundreds of promos, they all mesh. Also clearly stated that they weren't what a cool person would do, what someone you would hang with, someone a relatable person would do.
> 
> Newsflash Jon. Your not cool, your not relatable, and nobody would want to hang with you. Your on air character/persona is a lunatic. A mental case, an unstable person roaming the WWE. That stuff they wanted you to do fit the bill to a T.


Vince? Is that you? The WWE section is up the list a ways, you senile old sonofabitch.


----------



## Soul_Body

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1133717848721895426


----------



## BarrettBarrage

It really speaks volumes how Moxley was a guy whose like: "Give me anything and I'll make it work" and WWE abused that to the fullest extent and made him hate even talking.


----------



## Soul_Body

MontyCora said:


> "Once I showed them I had a shred of comedic timing? It was over."


That reminds me of that line(I can't remember who said it), but it was something along the lines of, "If Vince sees you dancing or finds out you can dance it's over." The old man is cracked.


----------



## UniversalGleam

In conclusion, I believe his comments on vince's company structure since 2002 is right on point.

Hes essentially strangled the creative element of being a wrestler, the wrestlers within wwe are essentially puppets for other people to toy with. Vince has people writing the scripts, dealing with the creative elements, planning the matches......something that doesnt work well because not only are the writers terrible but vince himself is weird and way off point when it comes to what works or is funny.

I expect this is down to the way wwe is ran these days, they have to micro-manage to ensure that nothing will upset their sponsors......the weird thing about though is that they wanted to dean to say something (he wouldnt say what) that he felt wouldve got him fired from wwe. It just shows the lack of consistency in vince's mind.

I always thought that the comments about vince being out of touch were rather exaggerated.......but listening to this? he is the main problem here, the company needs new direction because its vince's creation and leadership that is causing this issue. He is the core of the problem.


----------



## Death Rider

Zappers said:


> What's funny about this entire thing. Wrestlers complaining that creative/writers have bad ideas which are ruining the show. Then they go on to tell people, Well I stood up to them and no way I'm not gonna do that or say that. I told told Vince this , I told Vince that.....
> 
> Well guess what geniuses. THAT'S the final product we saw. The wrestlers ideas coming to life. :duck
> 
> The ratings and crap product is on you, the wrestler. You didn't want to do what you were told. Thought you knew better. Obviously, you didn't. Nobody to blame but yourself for not doing your job.


Did you even listen to a word he fucking said?


----------



## Black Widow

I am not surprised he was very frustrated because they really gave him so much shit to work with but it is sad how he tried so many times to pitch ideas and all got denied because Vince thought he knows better when he really is out of touch. All he wants to do is be a wrestler while they tried to turn him into something else. The entire show is about everything else but not wrestling.


----------



## BarrettBarrage

ONE STEP CLOSER TO KOFI MANIA said:


> Did you even listen to a word he fucking said?


When I said "WWE stans", I meant people like Zappers.

Tongue on that corporate boot.


----------



## Soul_Body

And you can tell Mox wasn't cool with the cancer shit. You could see it on his face.


----------



## RapShepard

Interview was tame. I do get he's telling his story, but hearing "I'd get physically sick before going in to work" is such a rich folk problem lol. Like welcome to most folks life Mox lol.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

RapShepard said:


> Interview was tame. I do get he's telling his story, but hearing "I'd get physically sick before going in to work" is such a rich folk problem lol. Like welcome to most folks life Mox lol.


I don't think the rich folk problem flies with him. Dude was homeless and came from nothing to be a star. He's had it worse than you, me and most other people.


----------



## Jedah

UniversalGleam said:


> I expect this is down to the way wwe is ran these days, they have to micro-manage to ensure that nothing will upset their sponsors......the weird thing about though is that they wanted to dean to say something (he wouldnt say what) that he felt wouldve got him fired from wwe. It just shows the lack of consistency in vince's mind.


I don't even think it's that anymore. If they really cared about upsetting sponsors they wouldn't be doing these Saudi shows. Vince just wants to control everything. Mox's comment about Vince "paying Brock millions to ruin his company just so he can say that he's his attraction" really made that point hit home.

This is why Vince buries people that get over without his say so. You have to get over through _his way_. If the fans don't like his way, they must be punished. EC3 gets booed against Ambrose at some damn house show that no one watched? Bury him anyway.

Basically, Mox made it sound like Vince doesn't care about running a company. He just wants to play with his little toybox and video tape it, and fuck you if you don't like it. Only very rarely does outside pressure change this.


----------



## RiverFenix

He hated WWE all the way to the bank. I mean the guy is 33yrs old with a smokeshow wife and seemingly could retire and live comfortably the rest of his life. No reason to go in hard on Vince talking about how old and out of touch he is and how he'll die in the chair - especially with his wife still working there.


----------



## Black Widow

RapShepard said:


> Interview was tame. I do get he's telling his story, but hearing "I'd get physically sick before going in to work" is such a rich folk problem lol. Like welcome to most folks life Mox lol.


He pretty much had nothing and worked tons of regular jobs like all of us. It wasn't ever about the money. If he was he wouldn't leave WWE. Wrestling is his love. He worked very hard to become something and he wanted to be able to do what he wants in the ring and on the mic. They didn't allow him. They made him do what they wanted him to do and that was what made him angry and wanting a change.


----------



## RapShepard

Undertaker23RKO said:


> I don't think the rich folk problem flies with him. Dude was homeless and came from nothing to be a star. He's had it worse than you, me and most other people.


Why wouldn't they? Is he not rich? Vince was a trailer kid who got abused and sexually assaulted, but that doesn't mean he gets the 9 to 5 struggle. Moxley had a rough upbringing I don't dispute that, and he's certainly earned ever dollar he's got. I still find it groan inducing when rich people talk about how hard it is to go to work. Like I'm sure it sucks, but billions of people go into a job they hate every day.


----------



## Amar

Such a good interview, I didn't expect him to go in as hard as he did but I''m glad he did.


----------



## llj

RapShepard said:


> Why wouldn't they? Is he not rich? Vince was a trailer kid who got abused and sexually assaulted, but that doesn't mean he gets the 9 to 5 struggle. Moxley had a rough upbringing I don't dispute that, and he's certainly earned ever dollar he's got. I still find it groan inducing when rich people talk about how hard it is to go to work. Like I'm sure it sucks, but billions of people go into a job they hate every day.


Yeah, and those billions either have no choice or don't have the will to leave. Moxley had the choice, and he left. Nothing wrong with us saying that. Saying it's a "rich people" problem sounds almost like a conversation stopper. Otherwise why even discuss wrestling at all in here?


----------



## RapShepard

Black Widow said:


> He pretty much had nothing and worked tons of regular jobs like all of us. It wasn't ever about the money. If he was he wouldn't leave WWE. Wrestling is his love. He worked very hard to become something and he wanted to be able to do what he wants in the ring and on the mic. They didn't allow him. They made him do what they wanted him to do and that was what made him angry and wanting a change.


His job was stressful and soul draining, sounds like how most folk feel about their jobs lol. It's funny hearing the stories. but it's just like if you thought you were sick going into work, imagine the folk who can't afford to tell their boss to fuck off lol


----------



## Erik.

Soul_Body said:


> And you can tell Mox wasn't cool with the cancer shit. You could see it on his face.


Just watched the promo back, his lip almost quivers after he said it. Very uncomfortable.

His whole demeanour changes.


----------



## headstar

Vince: ARE YOU HEARING THIS, PAUL?


HHH:


----------



## Black Widow

RapShepard said:


> His job was stressful and soul draining, sounds like how most folk feel about their jobs lol. It's funny hearing the stories. but it's just like if you thought you were sick going into work, imagine the folk who can't afford to tell their boss to fuck off lol


And we have to hate on him because not everyone can tell their boss to fuck off? Come on now.


----------



## Patrick Sledge

Black Widow said:


> And we have to hate on him because not everyone can tell their boss to fuck off? Come on now.


we can all tell our bosses to fuck off. I pulled a Stone Cold at work and told everyone where to go and how I felt, and I fucking quit. Packed my toolbox and quit. They called me and gave me a good raise. But I also don't mind the trade I'm in, but I'd rather be in another trade somewhere else.


----------



## P Thriller

Wow....this strangely get me excited about a possible Sasha banks Podcast in the future. I feel like she is basically in the same situation that Ambrose is in even though she obviously is handling it different. It is nice to know that there are still true wrestling passionate wrestling fans like Ambrose or Sasha who actually care about how their character is being handled instead of just going out there and dealing with the crap that is given to them by Vince. I really wish more wrestlers would take a stand like Sasha is right now and refuse to work until things change. The problem is a lot of them are perfectly happy as long as they are getting paid and a lot of them aren't all that passionate about wrestling, it is more of a job to them. You can clearly tell which ones those are.


----------



## Rated Phenomenal

Is it bad that I feel I'll struggle to respect any wrestler that signs/re-signs with WWE, because it must mean they're literally only in it for the money and are not actually passionate about their craft?


----------



## Desecrated

RapShepard said:


> His job was stressful and soul draining, sounds like how most folk feel about their jobs lol. It's funny hearing the stories. but it's just like if you thought you were sick going into work, imagine the folk who can't afford to tell their boss to fuck off lol


You have really bad takes when it isn't part of your own personal circular logic. The faulty reasoning that you'd be happy shoveling coal into chimnies so long as everyone else is doing the same.


----------



## RapShepard

llj said:


> Yeah, and those billions either have no choice or don't have the will to leave. Moxley had the choice, and he left. Nothing wrong with us saying that. Saying it's a "rich people" problem sounds almost like a conversation stopper. Otherwise why even discuss wrestling at all in here?


 You can have what ever conversation you want. I just said that "makes me sick" part was eye roll worthy to me. Like boo hoo you went to work and had to do shit you didn't want to do, while taking orders from an out of touch old man.


----------



## DammitChrist

Yet some folks on here wonder why the promos in WWE suck hard nowadays :lol

Vince micro-manages everything, and he scripts the hell out of what the talents have to say on TV. I knew it wasn't the fault of the wrestlers themselves. I figured that Vince (and probably some other writers) would be responsible for that crap; but WOW, the climate backstage (involving talents waiting around for the final draft of the scripted promos) sounds even more toxic than I've already imagined :sodone

Anyway, it's great to see Jon Moxley (along with Chris Jericho) bury Vince himself and the "creative" process in WWE :clap :clap

Kudos to Moxley too for acknowledging that the company has a roster full of great talent, and that none of the crap from the bad product is their fault (in spite of what some folks on here want us to believe) roud

Edit:

For the record, FUCK Vince; as if I didn't already know he's a liability to the product already.


----------



## Black Widow

Patrick Sledge said:


> we can all tell our bosses to fuck off. I pulled a Stone Cold at work and told everyone where to go and how I felt, and I fucking quit. Packed my toolbox and quit. They called me and gave me a good raise. But I also don't mind the trade I'm in, but I'd rather be in another trade somewhere else.


Yeah, I believe you can make it happen if you want. But maybe they are some who can't make it happen. Who knows. I don't know what the other poster situation is.


----------



## TripleG

I don't doubt a word of what Dean said as it all sounds like stuff we've suspected for years. 

It comes down "Creative is bad, and Vince is the problem". The show feels like it is written to make Vince happy rather than actually appeal to people and that's how you get the product that we have now.


----------



## NXT Only

We all have the ability to do what Moxley did honestly. If you’re unhappy, speak up. Close mouths don’t get fed. 

You should never feel like your career path is draining. Your happiness is something you cannot put a price on.


----------



## Death Rider

As someone who had a job that was making me hate my life I FUCKING QUIT! Your job should not make you hate your life. No one should think that way or you are going to have a shit life.


----------



## RapShepard

Black Widow said:


> And we have to hate on him because not everyone can tell their boss to fuck off? Come on now.


I don't hate him for it, more power to him. I wish I had that "nah I'm good on your rules, I'm out" bank account to fall back on. But if I find it dramatic when people I know IRL go on about how their job makes them sick, I'm going to have find it even more dramatic coming from a millionaire.


----------



## Dark Emperor

I loved that interview. No bitterness like Punk, just honesty and moving on from all the crap he had to go through.

Vince is out of touch and a clown it seems.


----------



## Black Widow

RapShepard said:


> I don't hate him for it, more power to him. I wish I had that "nah I'm good on your rules, I'm out" bank account to fall back on. But if I find it dramatic when people I know IRL go on about how their job makes them sick, I'm going to have find it even more dramatic coming from a millionaire.




He wasn't dramatic at all. He told his story. That is why Jericho invited him for.
I think you can only get inspired by it.


----------



## Zappers

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Vince? Is that you? The WWE section is up the list a ways, you senile old sonofabitch.


----------



## shandcraig

Lol interview with Jericho after mox attacked him?????


----------



## Patrick Sledge

shandcraig said:


> Lol interview with Jericho after mox attacked him?????


it was recorded beforehand, if you actually listened to it.


----------



## RapShepard

Black Widow said:


> He wasn't dramatic at all. He told his story. That is why Jericho invited him for.
> 
> I think you can only get inspired by it.


I just find adults talking about being sick at the thought of going into work dramatic, like just that part. It was a great podcast though. What was inspirational to you though? Mean this seriously though, no snarkiness.



Desecrated said:


> You have really bad takes when it isn't part of your own personal circular logic. The faulty reasoning that you'd be happy shoveling coal into chimnies so long as everyone else is doing the same.


I didn't tell him to keep doing anything. I find it annoying and dramatic when regular folk go on about how sick work makes them. It's even more annoying and dramatic when the rich guy is doing it. That's just me, if you enjoy hearing about how sick people get before they clock in then hey that's you.



Rated Phenomenal said:


> Is it bad that I feel I'll struggle to respect any wrestler that signs/re-signs with WWE, because it must mean they're literally only in it for the money and are not actually passionate about their craft?


It's a little silly. I mean what does their personal reasons for working their matter? Do they entertain you or not should be important? It's silly to think you can't be passionate about your craft while caring about your check.


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS

RapShepard said:


> I didn't tell him to keep doing anything. I find it annoying and dramatic when regular folk go on about how sick work makes them. It's even more annoying and dramatic when the rich guy is doing it. That's just me, if you enjoy hearing about how sick people get before they clock in then hey that's you.


It's not about enjoyment, it's about speaking truth to power. Most of us are burdened by this system that extracts excess labor from us, with shit in return. We're told to just eat shit and smile and maybe you've internalized that. 

Good for you.

But for most of us, yeah we sympathize with the idea that the thought of our jobs makes us sick. So Dean vocalizes that and hell yeah, most of know that feeling. You're actually weird for not knowing what that's like but kudos to you, it means you've lived a cushy life


----------



## Mr.Amazing5441

Great start to the afternoon. Awesome listen. What is funny is that unlike the Punk podcast, Ambrose or should I say Moxley didnt go after the way the company treats the wrestlers, but more about the creative processes which is obviously a problem. Hell based off his interpretation, it seems a lot of the writers are pretty frusterated and depressed about Vince which sucks because on paper it sounds like such a fun job, writing a story about something your passionate about and honestly, it seems the only person Moxley attacked was Vince, didnt say much about Triple H so he maybe didnt burn the WWE bridge completely.

Here is a small part about the podcast that really resonated with me. Moxley talked about how Seth introduced him with those buzzwords during his return and it pissed him off because of how over produced it was and it reminded me of another moment in 2014 that not many people caught on to. It was during the Ambrose vs Seth feud. I think it was Hogans birthday Raw and Seth won an opening match and was walking back to the locker room. What could have been a sick moment was when Ambrose just pops right out of the presents to attack Seth mid walk but instead they had Seth walk to the presents, act all suspicious and then just scoff at it giving some indication that someone most likely his rival was in there and sure enough there was. Conpletely killed the segment for me because their insistence an over producing everything.

Moxley talking about 2016 being so frustrating that it made him brain dead exhausted really explains his 2017. Where he wasnt doing anything and you could see had no passion or drive in him anymore. Imo that was his worst year by far.

My one complaint. It was too short. Only 90 mins and Moxley really only touched upon his last year in the WWE when ever since 2014, creative was always brutal to him. Some stuff I wished he touched upon:

The constant Shield reunions
Some of promos in 2016 that went over well, and his overall time on SDL where the product imo was actually good.
The Stone Cold podcast
Some of his matches because he really only talked about his goofy segments when his matches had lots of goofy stuff as well like his moves.


----------



## TripleG

ONE STEP CLOSER TO KOFI MANIA said:


> As someone who had a job that was making me hate my life I FUCKING QUIT! Your job should not make you hate your life. No one should think that way or you are going to have a shit life.


Amen!

I had a job a few years ago that I just hated. It got to a point where I hated every minute of my day and after 6 months of trying to tough it out, I found something better for me mentally and emotionally, and I couldn't be happier.


----------



## Black Widow

RapShepard said:


> I just find adults talking about being sick at the thought of going into work dramatic, like just that part. It was a great podcast though. What was inspirational to you though? Mean this seriously though, no snarkiness.



It means you didn't listen carefully then. His problem wasn't the job itself and that he has to go to it. He wanted freedom. He didn't like the shitty promos they wrote for him. He got ideas and told them but they got denied. He wants to do his own stuff. He even said he would even start a wrestling school, train people and then wrestle them. He has a different vision of what wrestling should be but still worked with the bad stuff they gave him for years. Didn't stop showing up. Didn't leave because he is professional and hoped things will change too but they didn't so he planned his leaving ahead of time and told them then again stayed and waited for his contract to expire. They did bury him on his way out too.
Dramatic will be if you complain about being unhappy but you do nothing about it. He was unhappy and he worked on changing it.


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS

I love that Vince cried when Mox said he was quitting :lmao what a strange old man


----------



## RapShepard

Communist Anti-capitalist said:


> It's not about enjoyment, it's about speaking truth to power. Most of us are burdened by this system that extracts excess labor from us, with shit in return. We're told to just eat shit and smile and maybe you've internalized that.
> 
> Good for you.
> 
> But for most of us, yeah we sympathize with the idea that the thought of our jobs makes us sick. So Dean vocalizes that and hell yeah, most of know that feeling. You're actually weird for not knowing what that's like but kudos to you, it means you've lived a cushy life


It's not that I don't get the feeling, I simply don't want to hear it. I'm always down for a "listen to this bull shit that happened at work" story. But when it's just in general " my job makes me sick" I'm out. Especially when it's something like jobs in entertainment.


----------



## Scissor Me Daddy-O!!

Zapato said:


> Can I ask what this ‘stans’ thing is about by the way, are people not allowed to frequent both products?





bradatar said:


> I like both. (Granted this podcast made my stance on WWE even more negative) I wasn't even pro AEW until they proved themself Saturday. Stans are people who won't give a product a chance and basically act like children holding their ears and screaming.





BarrettBarrage said:


> When I said "WWE stans", I meant people like Zappers.
> Tongue on that corporate boot.


I actually thought someone mis-typed "fans" as "stans" and we were all going with it. I was really happy till people started explaining 



Rated Phenomenal said:


> Is it bad that I feel I'll struggle to respect any wrestler that signs/re-signs with WWE, because it must mean they're literally only in it for the money and are not actually passionate about their craft?


Yes, it is bad. People are allowed to be in something for the money. I'd wager about 98% of the US are only working their job for money and receive no satisfaction from it. You don't have to love wrestling to do it and someone (WWE) is willing to pay you.

How about, you can respect the people who refuse WWE, because they love wrestling and want creative freedom and take a risk in getting to do so by not signing with WWE, more? That doesn't make you bad. 



P Thriller said:


> Wow....this strangely get me excited about a possible Sasha banks Podcast in the future. I feel like she is basically in the same situation that Ambrose is in even though she obviously is handling it different. It is nice to know that there are still true wrestling passionate wrestling fans like Ambrose or Sasha who actually care about how their character is being handled instead of just going out there and dealing with the crap that is given to them by Vince. I really wish more wrestlers would take a stand like Sasha is right now and refuse to work until things change. The problem is a lot of them are perfectly happy as long as they are getting paid and a lot of them aren't all that passionate about wrestling, it is more of a job to them. You can clearly tell which ones those are.


I don't like Sasha Banks as a wrestler, but I don't know her personal life and have no opinion on her. That said, I did let my imagination run and thought less of her for sitting at home after Mania. 

Now, after this podcast, I'm much more welcoming of her choice. I felt the same way about CM Punk till his podcast. So, yeah. I'm excited for Sasha to go to AEW or do a tell-all podcast.


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS

RapShepard said:


> It's not that I don't get the feeling, I simply don't want to hear it.


Ok. Say nothing and nothing changes. You're a shitty CEO's best friend. No hate though, this mentality is common and it's why so many people live terrible lives in shitty jobs

:draper2


----------



## Disputed

Communist Anti-capitalist said:


> It's not about enjoyment, it's about speaking truth to power. Most of us are burdened by this system that extracts excess labor from us, with shit in return. We're told to just eat shit and smile and maybe you've internalized that.
> 
> Good for you.
> 
> But for most of us, yeah we sympathize with the idea that the thought of our jobs makes us sick. So Dean vocalizes that and hell yeah, most of know that feeling. You're actually weird for not knowing what that's like but kudos to you, it means you've lived a cushy life


Ray's point as I understood it was literally that everyone's job sucks, so it's offputting when millionaire Jon Moxley complains about a job that is dramatically better than most of ours. How you twist this into saying he's led a cushy life I have no fucking idea, it comes off as pure projection.

You understand that AEW is still a corporation backed by a billionaire and that Jon Moxley is a millionaire for talking into a microphone and pretending to beat people up/get beaten up, yes? I don't see how this squares with your communist persona.

That aside, nothing but respect for Mox having the balls to burn some bridges and take some shots


----------



## Asuka842

Vince also did the same thing when Punk said that he was leaving as well.

I don't give a crap about how much money he has or if some people think that it's a better job. It doesn't make his point any less valid. This whole "he should shut up because blah blah blah money" nonsense is just that, nonsense.


----------



## Chrome

Heard about this earlier, just poured myself some Orange Vanilla Coke and about to give this a listen. :boombrock


----------



## InexorableJourney

Vince's booking philosophy, send in the clowns..


----------



## RapShepard

Black Widow said:


> RapShepard said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just find adults talking about being sick at the thought of going into work dramatic, like just that part. It was a great podcast though. What was inspirational to you though? Mean this seriously though, no snarkiness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It means you didn't listen carefully then. His problem wasn't the job itself and that he has to go to it. He wanted freedom. He didn't like the shitty promos they wrote for him. He got ideas and told them but they got denied. He wants to do his own stuff. He even said he would even start a wrestling school, train people and then wrestle them. He has a different vision of what wrestling should be but still worked with the bad stuff they gave him for years. Didn't stop showing up. Didn't leave because he is professional and hoped things will change too but they didn't so he planned his leaving ahead of time and told them then again stayed and waited for his contract to expire. They did bury him on his way out too.
> 
> Dramatic will be if you complain about being unhappy but you do nothing about it. He was unhappy and he worked on changing it.
> 
> 
> 
> Nah I listened, I just pointed out a very specific thing that made me roll my eyes. Him hating the pooper scooper idea shit and the rest is all cool stories. It's just the sick thing that's dramatic to me. And for the record this is like light hearted dramatic. Like I don't think he's a diva or primadonna, just that bit was an eye roller
> 
> 
> 
> Communist Anti-capitalist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok. Say nothing and nothing changes. You're a shitty CEO's best friend. No hate though, this mentality is common and it's why so many people live terrible lives in shitty jobs
> 
> 
> 
> :draper2
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> :lmao
Click to expand...


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS

Disputed said:


> Ray's point as I understood it was literally that everyone's job sucks, so it's offputting when millionaire Jon Moxley complains about a job that is dramatically better than most of ours.


His job PAYS dramatically better, that doesn't make it a great job. Wrestler's have mortality rates dramatically higher than the rest of us. They're literally going through the equivalent of multiple medium-impact car crashes a year. And if you work in the WWE, you don't have time for anything else. It pays well and there are perks, like fan mail. But in a career that, statistically speaking, will dramatically shorten your lifespan, you damn well have the right to complain about bullshit



> How you twist this into saying he's led a cushy life I have no fucking idea, it comes off as pure projection.


You're so fucking funny. Yeah, I'm a fucking Nigerian Prince, I've had it so easy.



> You understand that AEW is still a corporation backed by a billionaire and that Jon Moxley is a millionaire for talking into a microphone and pretending to beat people up/get beaten up, yes? I don't see how this squares with your communist persona.


I wasn't having an AEW vs WWE discussion with you WWE Stans. I was addressing the fact that it's unbelievably stupid to side with a corporate entity in a labor dispute as clear cut as this. So Moxley is a millionaire - aaaand? That changes the labor dynamic? Read a damn book on Communism because you sound like you have no idea what you're talking about


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Rated Phenomenal said:


> Is it bad that I feel I'll struggle to respect any wrestler that signs/re-signs with WWE, because it must mean they're literally only in it for the money and are not actually passionate about their craft?


You shouldn't feel that way. Not all of them are as passionate about having the creative freedom. Most probably are, but not all. To some, just being in the ring, traveling, performing in front of large screaming crowds outweigh the negatives, if they even perceive those things as negatives. But.... those are not the ones that everybody screams about grabbing the brass ring -- they're content with the situation, and making the most of whatever Vince and creative throw at them. Nothing wrong with that. They're still good at what they do to get to this level, they're just driven by different priorities. The problem then, as we see now, will be with the product as a whole. 

I do see what you're saying though; while I won't not respect them, I'll probably have a hard time seeing them in the same light as others like Moxley who do jump ship to pursue that creative freedom.


----------



## UniversalGleam

Jedah said:


> Basically, Mox made it sound like Vince doesn't care about running a company. He just wants to play with his little toybox and video tape it, and fuck you if you don't like it. Only very rarely does outside pressure change this.


tbf I can kind of understand that. Vince likely reached the point where making money no longer offered any drive a loooooooooooooong time ago. I mean if you are a billionaire, what does money really matter anymore? it becomes meaningless, specially when vince only really works, its not like hes buying expensive holidays. 

why would vince need to care about running a business when money is the end game of running a business? he already has more money than he will ever need. There is no real NEED to ensure that wwe succeeds week to week, its not like hes scraping around to pay his bills. That is likely part of the problem. WWE is already a huge success, the drive to get up and make it work is no longer there.

Even mox said this about himself, no matter how much money vince offered him, it wouldnt change his mind because he didnt need $10 million dollars. 

The only reason vince probably cared about WCW taking over was because it damaged his own ego more than anything else. He wanted to win so he would be the man in control.


----------



## Black Widow

RapShepard said:


> Black Widow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nah I listened, I just pointed out a very specific thing that made me roll my eyes. Him hating the pooper scooper idea shit and the rest is all cool stories. It's just the sick thing that's dramatic to me. And for the record this is like light hearted dramatic. Like I don't think he's a diva or primadonna, just that bit was an eye roller
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I still don't understand what do you want from him? He was invited to do an interview and tell his story and that is exactly what he did. It's not like he talks about this all the time. He was specifically asked about it. And he never acted like his problems were more important than other people's problems. When he didn't say much to Stone Cold he was blamed for it. Now he tells all he feels and he is blamed for it again. He just can never win it seems.
Click to expand...


----------



## Proper225

It's funny how ambrose/moxley in wwe was never looked at to be a big star. but somehow he's out and the internet is kissing his ass and it's vince's fault for wasting him.

But looking around this forum and all the bashing/trolling the talent gets and who draws and what not. you'd think vince is the victim of having a bland/basic roster that don't "draw"

So which one is it ?


----------



## V-Trigger

Rated Phenomenal said:


> Is it bad that I feel I'll struggle to respect any wrestler that signs/re-signs with WWE, because it must mean they're literally only in it for the money and are not actually passionate about their craft?


Pretty much this. I can't imagine being Matt Riddle or Adam Cole after hearing about this.


----------



## Disputed

Communist Anti-capitalist said:


> His job PAYS dramatically better, that doesn't make it a great job. Wrestler's have mortality rates dramatically higher than the rest of us. They're literally going through the equivalent of multiple medium-impact car crashes a year. And if you work in the WWE, you don't have time for anything else. It pays well and there are perks, like fan mail. But in a career that, statistically speaking, will dramatically shorten your lifespan, you damn well have the right to complain about bullshit
> 
> 
> 
> You're so fucking funny. Yeah, I'm a fucking Nigerian Prince, I've had it so easy.
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't having an AEW vs WWE discussion with you WWE Stans. I was addressing the fact that it's unbelievably stupid to side with a corporate entity in a labor dispute as clear cut as this. So Moxley is a millionaire - aaaand? That changes the labor dynamic? Read a damn book on Communism because you sound like you have no idea what you're talking about


Fair point about wrestling being a dangerous career, but Mox's complaint about his job was primarily about creativity, not personal risk. This is not intended to be a defense of WWE's ridiculous healthcare policy vis-a-vis "independent contractors" and unless I missed it nobody here has attempted any such defense. I don't see where I've taken WWE's side _anywhere_, how you conclude I'm a WWE stan (is Ospreay in WWE now and I just missed it?). 

Feel free to educate me about what Marx thought about entertainers making enough in a year to feed several villages for a decade, I must have missed that part of Capital. I know what Adorno thought about it, but your mileage may vary

How am I supposed to know what kind of life you've had? I can only judge by the fact you have as much time to waste on this forum during the North American workday as the rest of us. Now that I think about it though, whatever life experiences you've had must have been pretty bad to turn you into such a boring and humorless scold


----------



## Soul_Body

RapShepard said:


> I just find adults talking about being sick at the thought of going into work dramatic, like just that part. It was a great podcast though. What was inspirational to you though? Mean this seriously though, no snarkiness.



"If you're a elf that wants to be a dentist, then be a dentist." That could be inspirational.


----------



## RapShepard

Communist Anti-capitalist said:


> His job PAYS dramatically better, that doesn't make it a great job. Wrestler's have mortality rates dramatically higher than the rest of us. They're literally going through the equivalent of multiple medium-impact car crashes a year. And if you work in the WWE, you don't have time for anything else. It pays well and there are perks, like fan mail. But in a career that, statistically speaking, will dramatically shorten your lifespan, you damn well have the right to complain about bullshit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're so fucking funny. Yeah, I'm a fucking Nigerian Prince, I've had it so easy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't having an AEW vs WWE discussion with you WWE Stans. I was addressing the fact that it's unbelievably stupid to side with a corporate entity in a labor dispute as clear cut as this. So Moxley is a millionaire - aaaand? That changes the labor dynamic? Read a damn book on Communism because you sound like you have no idea what you're talking about


You're making up points in your head. I simply said and keep saying I find it annoying and dramatic when adults talk about how sick they feel going into work. If that interests you then cool, it doesn't interest me.


----------



## llj

I have to listen to more of this interview but on another note I love how during this interview Renee is clearly nearby within earshot and Mox is absolutely shitting on the company she's still employed in.


----------



## Laughable Chimp

Proper225 said:


> It's funny how ambrose/moxley in wwe was never looked at to be a big star. but somehow he's out and the internet is kissing his ass and it's vince's fault for wasting him.
> 
> But looking around this forum and all the bashing/trolling the talent gets and who draws and what not. you'd think vince is the victim of having a bland/basic roster that don't "draw"
> 
> So which one is it ?


What do you mean Ambrose/Moxley was never looked to be a big star. The man was one of the most hyped wrestlers all the way back to his NXT days on this forum.


----------



## Matthew Castillo

RapShepard said:


> His job was stressful and soul draining, sounds like how most folk feel about their jobs lol. It's funny hearing the stories. but it's just like if you thought you were sick going into work, imagine the folk who can't afford to tell their boss to fuck off lol


And here we see the crab mentality in which when confronted with someone able to leave a broken system one attacks the person leaving rather than system itself. Maybe the rest of us also shouldn't have to work jobs we hate so much that we struggle to get out of bed in the morning either?


----------



## Geeee

Erik. said:


> Interesting to see that hes fine to use social media now yet never did during WWE.
> 
> I wonder why?
> 
> Also thought it was pathetic that they paid him $500 for The Shield special on the Network because it was the same price that "background talent" get..
> 
> Why even give him a fucking special?


From what I gathered, he pays a guy to do his social media for him now.


----------



## Jedah

Dean was one of WWE's bigger names this past decade. Not at the top but at the level beneath it. It's not like he didn't have any success, which is what makes this interview more poignant. Many people have had it much worse.

Also, this should lay to rest anyone here claiming that it's talent's fault for being "charisma vacuums" or something. Look at Mox and Cody at DON after they escaped the orbit of that creative black hole known as Vince McMahon.


----------



## RapShepard

Black Widow said:


> RapShepard said:
> 
> 
> 
> I still don't understand what do you want from him? He was invited to do an interview and tell his story and that is exactly what he did. It's not like he talks about this all the time. He was specifically asked about it. And he never acted like his problems were more important than other people's problems. When he didn't say much to Stone Cold he was blamed for it. Now he tells all he feels and he is blamed for it again. He just can never win it seems.
> 
> 
> 
> You're thinking too hard here lol. I thought the interview was cool and funny. That specific part was just annoying to me. Not a "I no longer like him" annoying, or "fuck this guy" annoying. Just normal, mild, no biggie annoying lol
Click to expand...


----------



## Disputed

Jedah said:


> Dean was one of WWE's bigger names this past decade. Not at the top but at the level beneath it. It's not like he didn't have any success, which is what makes this interview more poignant. Many people have had it much worse.
> 
> Also, this should lay to rest anyone here claiming that it's talent's fault for being "charisma vacuums" or something. Look at Mox and Cody at DON after they escaped the orbit of that creative black hole known as Vince McMahon.


Mox and Cody have given the lie to "its the talents fault". It was maybe arguable before people started busting loose, but its a really hard case to make now


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

I can't see how any wrestler who cares about their craft can re-sign with that company. You're no longer a pro wrestler when you go to WWE. You become a guy or gal who used to be a wrestler now being paid to recite lines written by a 73 year old man.

It is impossible for me to take anyone who defends WWE seriously whether it be a former wrestler, a former writer, current fans or anyone else.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90

Really interesting interview

What I liked was it wasn’t just Moxley ranting. He was just outlining the dumb shit he went through and what they did to him mentally.

Sounds like he’s a great place and I can’t bloody to wait to see what he does over the next 12 months as he seems to have a real point to prove


----------



## DOTL

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> He hated WWE all the way to the bank. I mean the guy is 33yrs old with a smokeshow wife and seemingly could retire and live comfortably the rest of his life. No reason to go in hard on Vince talking about how old and out of touch he is and how he'll die in the chair - especially with his wife still working there.


Some people aren't content with eating. Some people actually want to express themselves in a meaningful way. Some people are creative, and when you're creative, the "good life" isn't good enough. 

I'm sure some people are content with being thrown singles as they lay at the bottom of the cesspool that is VKM's imagination, but Mox doesn't seem to be one of them.


----------



## Shepard

I agree that it would have been cool to hear him talk freely about some of his SD stuff which was the one time he was kind of free from the whole shield thing and given some independence, or earlier stuff (hell I'd love to know how different he feels the wwe he left was from the fcw he went into where it felt like he could cut loose and had a great program with rollins and then regal) but I get that he wanted to get that specific stuff off his chest and you get the sense now he's finally happy to move on and start the new chapter in his life, so good for him.

It seems really positive in terms of the creative control and freedom the guys in aew will get and like they said, if this is what forces wwe to change their game, then great that works out for the industry as a whole and we maybe get to see some of the really talented guys there actually perform to their capabilities. If not, then I'm super stoked to see a motivated amped up Jon Moxley go out and perform because he's definitely a much more well rounded and better performer than the guy who walked in to WWE in 2011. Like he said, he is definitely going to be an asset for these guys, especially when they go to weekly TV.


----------



## Desecrated

Jedah said:


> Dean was one of WWE's bigger names this past decade. Not at the top but at the level beneath it. It's not like he didn't have any success, which is what makes this interview more poignant. Many people have had it much worse.
> 
> Also, this should lay to rest anyone here claiming that it's talent's fault for being "charisma vacuums" or something. Look at Mox and Cody at DON after they escaped the orbit of that creative black hole known as Vince McMahon.


Cody is a point that should really be used to combat the 'charisma vacuum' narrative. Some guys & girls in the WWE do have off-putting personalities which always gets written down as 'charisma' to those who can't differentiate personality & charisma. I say Cody because people did genuinely believe that he was a charisma vacuum. But it was clearly they didn't dig his personality, as a character & a person. Every time he was allowed to show fire, he got the crowd on his side and the people backing him. But to Vince, he was Dusty's son and the failure to push him just fueled nonsensical narratives against him.


----------



## Therapy

That was one of the most non-bitter unleashings I've heard an ex-WWE employee give. I mean, he really did destroy their entire process from creative to Vince.. Yet, didn't come off angry and bitter.. He just sounded defeated and needed out to be happy as a person


----------



## RapShepard

Matthew Castillo said:


> And here we see the crab mentality in which when confronted with someone able to leave a broken system one attacks the person leaving rather than system itself. Maybe the rest of us also shouldn't have to work jobs we hate so much that we struggle to get out of bed in the morning either?


Lmao what fantasy world where everybody loves their job are you living in. Look chief it ain't ever going to happen. The best you can hope for is a world where everybody at least gets livable wages. Anyway any business with any longevity is filled to the brim with disgruntled employees that hate their job and going to work, Ambrose isnt special there. The same way I don't care about how the cashier at Kroger hates coming to work, is the same way I don't care about how much Moxley hated going to work for WWE. But I will listen to a funny story from both.


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS

Disputed said:


> Fair point about wrestling being a dangerous career, but Mox's complaint about his job was primarily about creativity, not personal risk. This is not intended to be a defense of WWE's ridiculous healthcare policy vis-a-vis "independent contractors" and unless I missed it nobody here has attempted any such defense. I don't see where I've taken WWE's side _anywhere_, how you conclude I'm a WWE stan (is Ospreay in WWE now and I just missed it?).


Are you this bad at reading or is playing stupid just your strategy? I'll pretend I didn't see this whole paragraph about healthcare because it's irrelevant. 



> Fair point about wrestling being a dangerous career, but Mox's complaint about his job was primarily about creativity, not personal risk.


See, now I'm starting to doubt you even actually know who Adorno or Marx are, with reading comprehension this bad :mj4 

Why would you risk your life at a job that doesn't respect the terms of your personal fulfillment? When you have a job that can end your life, or shorten your life, you have a right to complain about any aspect of that job because the cost is something priceless and irreplaceable, regardless of what you're being paid.



> Feel free to educate me about what Marx thought about entertainers making enough in a year to feed several villages for a decade, I must have missed that part of Capital. I know what Adorno thought about it, but your mileage may vary


"To say that the upper class is all families with incomes of $500,000 or more is not an adequate manner of understanding social class. The latter is a stratification approach that begins by examining the characteristics of individuals, and from this amassing a view of social class structure as a whole"

Read about class structures and then we can have this discussion. In this discussion, Dean is labor and Vince is the capitalist exploiting that excess labor. Whether or not we should tax people like Dean in order to feed entire villages is irrelevant to the structural dynamics at play between him and Vince McMahon's corporation.



> How am I supposed to know what kind of life you've had?


Then be quiet? LOL




> I can only judge by the fact you have as much time to waste on this forum during the North American workday as the rest of us. Now that I think about it though, whatever life experiences you've had must have been pretty bad to turn you into such a boring and humorless scold


Oh no I'm hella fun but watching people lick corporate asscrack and then piss hilariously bad hot takes on political ideology surely does bring out the "scold" in me lol. Feel scolded? Ya should, now off to bed


----------



## birthday_massacre

Moxley pretty much confirmed what a lot of us have been saying for the past few years about Vince.


----------



## P Thriller

All Elite Wanking said:


> I don't like Sasha Banks as a wrestler, but I don't know her personal life and have no opinion on her. That said, I did let my imagination run and thought less of her for sitting at home after Mania.
> 
> Now, after this podcast, I'm much more welcoming of her choice. I felt the same way about CM Punk till his podcast. So, yeah. I'm excited for Sasha to go to AEW or do a tell-all podcast.


That's the thing...if people like Sasha were actually allowed to be creative then maybe you would actually enjoy them more as performers. Sasha was an amazing heel in NXT and Vince has literally handcuffed her on the main roster by making her a generic babyface for almost 4 years. This doesn't apply to just Sasha obviously, think of how many great talents there are on the main roster right now that just haven't been given a chance at all to show what they have. That's what is great about AEW (And NXT for that matter). Everybody gets to show how talented they really are once Vince doesn't have a hold of them anymore.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Communist Anti-capitalist said:


> Are you this bad at reading or is playing stupid just your strategy? I'll pretend I didn't see this whole paragraph about healthcare because it's irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> See, now I'm starting to doubt you even actually know who Adorno or Marx are, with reading comprehension this bad :mj4
> 
> Why would you risk your life at a job that doesn't respect the terms of your personal fulfillment? When you have a job that can end your life, or shorten your life, you have a right to complain about any aspect of that job because the cost is something priceless and irreplaceable, regardless of what you're being paid.
> 
> 
> 
> "To say that the upper class is all families with incomes of $500,000 or more is not an adequate manner of understanding social class. The latter is a stratification approach that begins by examining the characteristics of individuals, and from this amassing a view of social class structure as a whole"
> 
> Read about class structures and then we can have this discussion. In this discussion, Dean is labor and Vince is the capitalist exploiting that excess labor. Whether or not we should tax people like Dean in order to feed entire villages is irrelevant to the structural dynamics at play between him and Vince McMahon's corporation.
> 
> 
> 
> Then be quiet? LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no I'm hella fun but watching people lick corporate asscrack and then piss hilariously bad hot takes on political ideology surely does bring out the "scold" in me lol. Feel scolded? Ya should, now off to bed


How did this turn into the promotion of communism?

I think Vince is a senile imbecile who doesn't have the slightest clue how to book an entertaining pro wrestling show, and Moxley was right to shit on the entire creative process after leaving the company. But in no way was he exploited. It's Vince's company, and if he wants to be a retard and put out by far the worst pro wrestling show on the planet, then it's his right. At no point in time did Moxley say, or even imply, that he was exploited. Just that he had no respect for the creative process and that he was no longer content with being there.

You're presumably over the age of 15. Time to give this communism nonsense up, bud.


----------



## ScottishPsychopath

Anytime a WWE Stan/fanboy defends WWE being shit. "THIS IS GOOD SHIT" will be used to mock them


----------



## patpat

wow, things escalated quickly....from this interview to people talking about their life to communism :lol


----------



## Proper225

Laughable Chimp said:


> What do you mean Ambrose/Moxley was never looked to be a big star. The man was one of the most hyped wrestlers all the way back to his NXT days on this forum.





> Dean was one of WWE's bigger names this past decade. Not at the top but at the level beneath it. It's not like he didn't have any success, which is what makes this interview more poignant. Many people have had it much worse.
> 
> Also, this should lay to rest anyone here claiming that it's talent's fault for being "charisma vacuums" or something. Look at Mox and Cody at DON after they escaped the orbit of that creative black hole known as Vince McMahon.


Basically what i meant.


----------



## Black Widow

RapShepard said:


> Black Widow said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're thinking too hard here lol. I thought the interview was cool and funny. That specific part was just annoying to me. Not a "I no longer like him" annoying, or "fuck this guy" annoying. Just normal, mild, no biggie annoying lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No biggie but you did come here to complain about it. People are allowed to say what they want to say, you know? It doesn't matter if you like it or not.
Click to expand...


----------



## kingnoth1n

Why is this not most popular discussion @Headliner @Brock


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS

AEWMoxley said:


> How did this turn into the promotion of communism?
> 
> I think Vince is a senile imbecile who doesn't have the slightest clue how to book an entertaining pro wrestling show, and Moxley was right to shit on the entire creative process after leaving the company. But in no way was he exploited. It's Vince's company, and if he wants to be a retard and put out by far the worst pro wrestling show on the planet, then it's his right. At no point in time did Moxley say, or even imply, that he was exploited. Just that he had no respect for the creative process and that he was no longer content with being there.
> 
> You're presumably over the age of 15. Time to give this communism nonsense up, bud.


Communism became a topic of discussion because a couple of people are triggered by my username 

But Oh gosh you're so cute and naive. I remember not understanding how all labor under capitalism is exploitative. I must've been about 15 last time I believed that crap actually


----------



## ScottishPsychopath

Great listen but quite tragic when he was talking about his depression, injuries and WWE and Vince's shit ruining the once burning passion he had for wrestling and being creative in his job.
And for the record, he doesn't sound "bitter" at all. He's telling it like it happened to him. 
He gave WWE his all, got not much at all back, decided it was time to leave, saw out his contract like a true professional and moved on.
I've a lot of respect for Moxley after this.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Communist Anti-capitalist said:


> Communism became a topic of discussion because a couple of people are triggered by my username
> 
> But Oh gosh you're so cute and naive. I remember not understanding how all labor under capitalism is exploitative. I must've been about 15 last time I believed that crap actually


The labor theory of value has been debunked not only by most schools of economic thought (on both sides of the spectrum) but also by empirical data.

Your entire outlook is based on a flimsy and incorrect theory of value. You're not doing yourself any favors here with this anti-intellectualism that you're spewing.

Also, this is the wrong sub-forum for this discussion.


----------



## Disputed

Communist Anti-capitalist said:


> Are you this bad at reading or is playing stupid just your strategy? I'll pretend I didn't see this whole paragraph about healthcare because it's irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> See, now I'm starting to doubt you even actually know who Adorno or Marx are, with reading comprehension this bad :mj4
> 
> Why would you risk your life at a job that doesn't respect the terms of your personal fulfillment? When you have a job that can end your life, or shorten your life, you have a right to complain about any aspect of that job because the cost is something priceless and irreplaceable, regardless of what you're being paid.
> 
> 
> 
> "To say that the upper class is all families with incomes of $500,000 or more is not an adequate manner of understanding social class. The latter is a stratification approach that begins by examining the characteristics of individuals, and from this amassing a view of social class structure as a whole"
> 
> Read about class structures and then we can have this discussion. In this discussion, Dean is labor and Vince is the capitalist exploiting that excess labor. Whether or not we should tax people like Dean in order to feed entire villages is irrelevant to the structural dynamics at play between him and Vince McMahon's corporation.
> 
> 
> 
> Then be quiet? LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no I'm hella fun but watching people lick corporate asscrack and then piss hilariously bad hot takes on political ideology surely does bring out the "scold" in me lol. Feel scolded? Ya should, now off to bed


You could've at least quoted Marx, and not some random essay from nowhere. If John Cena is a proletariat, something has gone wrong with the analysis, and Marx would've been canny enough to grasp that. His 21st century acolytes apparently can't. Here, maybe this will make it obvious to you:

"In this discussion, Brad Pitt is labor and Disney is the capitalist exploiting that excess labor. Whether or not we should tax people like Brad Pitt in order to feed entire villages is irrelevant to the structural dynamics at play between him and Disney's corporation."

If you don't get why someone who works a regular job would laugh at the comparison, and find any whining from Brad Pitt about his contract situation offputting, then congratulations, you'll never appeal to the working class ever again. 

Jon Moxley did not reject the system, as Matthew Castillo seems to believe he did. He traded a bad corporation, for a better one. Are you aware what the role of the "good" corporation in the capitalist economic system is? You might have to dig into Marx's letters to find it, and not crib from a professors slide show.

My reading comprehension is good enough to catch when someone pivots from one subject to another for no reason. You are defending Jon Moxley, who is bitching about lack of creative freedom, not healthcare. Did he leave WWE because of healthcare? Did he decide to work for Tony Khan for that reason? You make an irrelevant point, get called on it, and then call the response irrelevant. No wonder neoliberalism won.

Enough, really, please do more than take the intro course, you make the left look like imbeciles. 

Sorry to everyone else in this thread, political discussion ends now.


----------



## Mango13

Just started listening, can't wait to hear what he has to say about the WWE


----------



## Patrick Sledge

AEWMoxley said:


> How did this turn into the promotion of communism?
> 
> I think Vince is a senile imbecile who doesn't have the slightest clue how to book an entertaining pro wrestling show, and Moxley was right to shit on the entire creative process after leaving the company. But in no way was he exploited. It's Vince's company, and if he wants to be a retard and put out by far the worst pro wrestling show on the planet, then it's his right. At no point in time did Moxley say, or even imply, that he was exploited. Just that he had no respect for the creative process and that he was no longer content with being there.
> 
> You're presumably over the age of 15. Time to give this communism nonsense up, bud.


anyone who supports communism in 2019 is a fucking moron. point blank.


----------



## RapShepard

Black Widow said:


> RapShepard said:
> 
> 
> 
> No biggie but you did come here to complain about it. People are allowed to say what they want to say, you know? It doesn't matter if you like it or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I came here to give my take on the interview like everybody else did. Trust me you'll be okay if I think Ambrose said something annoying.
Click to expand...


----------



## Black Widow

RapShepard said:


> Black Widow said:
> 
> 
> 
> I came here to give my take on the interview like everybody else did. Trust me you'll be okay if I think Ambrose said something annoying.
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to be annoyed by anyone who says they hate their job not just him and that is what is weird to me. I think people are allowed to talk about not being happy at a job and find another job.
Click to expand...


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS

Disputed said:


> You could've at least quoted Marx, and not some random essay from nowhere. If John Cena is a proletariat, something has gone wrong with the analysis, and Marx would've been canny enough to grasp that. His 21st century acolytes apparently can't. Here, maybe this will make it obvious to you:
> 
> "In this discussion, Brad Pitt is labor and Disney is the capitalist exploiting that excess labor. Whether or not we should tax people like Brad Pitt in order to feed entire villages is irrelevant to the structural dynamics at play between him and Disney's corporation."
> 
> If you don't get why someone who works a regular job would laugh at the comparison, and find any whining from Brad Pitt about his contract situation offputting, then congratulations, you'll never appeal to the working class ever again.
> 
> Jon Moxley did not reject the system, as Matthew Castillo seems to believe he did. He traded a bad corporation, for a better one. Are you aware what the role of the "good" corporation in the capitalist economic system is? You might have to dig into Marx's letters to find it, and not crib from a professors slide show.
> 
> My reading comprehension is good enough to catch when someone pivots from one subject to another for no reason. You are defending Jon Moxley, who is bitching about lack of creative freedom, not healthcare. Did he leave WWE because of healthcare? Did he decide to work for Tony Khan for that reason? You make an irrelevant point, get called on it, and then call the response irrelevant. No wonder neoliberalism won.
> 
> Enough, really, please do more than take the intro course, you make the left look like imbeciles.
> 
> Sorry to everyone else in this thread, political discussion ends now.


Oh your cowardice is so predictable :eyeroll2 Again your reading comprehension is underperforming at Mississippi levels which is actually why I found the simplest Marxist interpretation I could and it seemed like it worked and you understood it. But then your response was... LOL. Literally nothing contradictory about your Brad Pitt/Disney joak. Maybe I should get you a grade appropriate interpretation next time. 

"Good corporation" :swaggyp point to where I boost AEW at all. I defended Dean's right to shit over WWE, AEW was something that I never mentioned in my original post that you brought up because your argument is childish. 

Dean Ambrose left the WWE because the cost-benefit wasn't there for him. You keep claiming that Dean isn't allowed to criticize the WWE because the BENEFIT side of the agreement is in the millions of dollars but you repeatedly fail to account for the full COST side of the agreement, which is long term health and time. If you still can't wrap your head around this one, I can't help you, I just hope someone responsible is executing all your important life decisions on your behalf


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Black Widow said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're thinking too hard here lol. I thought the interview was cool and funny. That specific part was just annoying to me. Not a "I no longer like him" annoying, or "fuck this guy" annoying. Just normal, mild, no biggie annoying lol
> 
> 
> 
> Kinda the same sort of annoyance when you kinda, sorta go on about the same sorta point
Click to expand...


----------



## RapShepard

Black Widow said:


> You seem to be annoyed by anyone who says they hate their job not just him and that is what is weird to me. I think people are allowed to talk about not being happy at a job and find another job.


People are allowed to talk about what they want. I just don't want to hear some of it, and if it's on a podcast/intervieweI might voice how a part of it wasn't for me. Again I don't get what's so wild about my take lol


LifeInCattleClass said:


> Kinda the same sort of annoyance when you kinda, sorta go on about the same sorta point


Nah that's a different annoyance. This is more a "this guy" annoyance, you're talking about a "wtf really dude" annoyance


----------



## Laughable Chimp

Communist Anti-capitalist said:


> Communism became a topic of discussion because a couple of people are triggered by my username
> 
> But Oh gosh you're so cute and naive. I remember not understanding how all labor under capitalism is exploitative. I must've been about 15 last time I believed that crap actually


No offence, but your username is pretty stupid. Anyone who has a username on a wrestling forum describing their political affiliation as if that's the one thing they want most to be known about them is automatically assumed to be an imbecile by me. And this coming from a guy who calls himself laughable chimp.

Also, most of the politic talk comes off pretentious in this thread. Not sure if you're the one who brought it up initially, but politics talk in this type of thread is always pretentious to me.


----------



## Jedah

On the positive side, one good point Mox and Jericho made toward the end is that, aside from them being well-known, they're among the few people in AEW that have a lot of experience doing live weekly TV. Chris was talking about how he was telling Kenny that it was a different animal.

So Mox can help guys and girls in the company get up to speed on how to do it well this fall.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Jedah said:


> On the positive side, one good point Mox and Jericho made toward the end is that, aside from them being well-known, they're among the few people in AEW that have a lot of experience doing live weekly TV. Chris was talking about how he was telling Kenny that it was a different animal.
> 
> So Mox can help guys and girls in the company get up to speed on how to do it well this fall.


Thank fuck sane conversation has returned


----------



## jroc72191

Communist Anti-capitalist said:


> No, because no one new is actually joining because WWE is killing interest in wrestling so to the extent that we get new members they're guaranteed to be trolls who are so far up Vince McMahon's butt that the constant criticism has turned them bitter past the point of contributing anything worthwhile


this makes me sadder than most people realize.


----------



## Mox Girl

I'm so glad that Mox enjoyed his time in The Shield <3 And his love for Seth & Roman is perfectly clear, those dudes were close, even if he and Seth didn't hang out all the time. I mean, he didn't want to tell Seth that he was leaving during Rumble weekend cos he didn't want to ruin his Rumble win for him 

He's such a brother though, when he told that story about the second Roman leukemia line they wanted to him to say. The line that made it to TV was pretty gross, I remember saying how much I hated it when it first happened, so I really do wonder just what the fuck they wanted him to say the second time?! That makes me feel sick, that they wanted a guy to talk about his best friend's cancer. That never should have been part of the Dean vs Seth angle IMO.


----------



## Fearless Viper

*Jon Moxley Details Why He Left WWE, Promos Regarding Roman Reigns Cancer, Vince McMahon's Reactions*



> Jon Moxley Details Why He Left WWE, Promos Regarding Roman Reigns Cancer, Vince McMahon's Reactions
> By Raj Giri | May 29, 2019
> 1002
> 
> Jon Moxley, f.k.a. Dean Ambrose, appeared on Chris Jericho's podcast, Talk Is Jericho, which dropped today. The episode was recorded a couple of days before Double Or Nothing.
> 
> Moxley said that "it was time to talk, finally." He said that he has been quiet the last few months, even though WWE had sent out press releases and mentioned on commentary that he was leaving. Moxley brought up that his only real comment about leaving was during The Shield's interview with Michael Cole last month, and that was because he felt like he was being set up with them saying he couldn't hack it in WWE so he would be going to the minor leagues.
> 
> Moxley noted that he's never been happier and that the weight of the world has been lifted off of his shoulders. He said that he has nothing but gratitude for WWE, and that WWE changed his life. He said he grew as a person there and learned a lot of life skills, adding that he got a chance to be a part of great causes like Make A Wish. Moxley also noted that he met his wife, Renee Young, in WWE and that the last eight years could not have been more successful.
> 
> "With that out of the way, let's just bury the company," Moxley joked.
> 
> Moxley knew he wanted to leave the company in July 2018 when he was out with a triceps injury. He was supposed to be out for four months but it turned into nine months because of all the complications. Moxley said he did not want to walk out of the company at the time, partly because his wife works there and he would get all of his royalties if he waited until his contract expired on April 30th.
> 
> Moxley recalled once getting a scripted promo about him describing the things that he did getting to the arena that day. He said that they weren't things that a cool or relatable person does, but things that an idiot would do like driving backwards on a street or eating pizza with a homeless person. Moxley refused to do the promo and asked for it to be rewritten. Vince McMahon re-did the promo but put all of that material back in. Moxley met with Vince, who thought that "it was such good sh-t" and that it was why people liked him. Moxley replied, "So I'm an idiot?" McMahon laughed and replied, "No, that's you! You're different!"
> 
> He went on to recall the day when he started to count down the number of days that he had left. Moxley was back from injury last fall working as a heel against Seth Rollins, and as soon as he got to TV, several writers approached him with scripts. The theme was that Rollins would be calling him out into the ring throughout the night and that he would have various promos on the screen before leading to a fight at the end of the show. He knew it was going to be a long day with the various promos, noting that pre-tapes can take up to 40 minutes.
> 
> "They hand me these scripts," Moxley recapped. "To my eye, it's typical WWE script. They're a bunch of words, a bunch of big words, a bunch of goofy words. None of it makes any sense to me. We're not trying to tell any tangible story or do anything to get any kind of characters over. Nothing that makes any sense to me. So, typical."
> 
> Moxley said the promo he was most concerned was at the end of the show in the ring, which he felt was "absolute hot garbage off of a crap." The gist was that the people were smelly and foul, and Moxley could see Vince enjoying it. The thing that caught his eye the most was a comment about a "pooper scooper." Moxley said he wasn't going to say that. There was a process they had to go through to get it changed but without having Vince see it because Vince would love the "pooper scooper" line. One of the writers tried to get it changed to be more about needing a gas mask because the town was disgusting. Moxley told a writer that it would be much better if they were trying to tell a story instead of saying stupid things. Later that evening he got "notes from VKM", who said that "Dean needs to understand why he's insulting the audience" and read the promo verbatim and not try to re-write them.
> 
> "Why do I work here?" Moxley exclaimed to the writer. "I'm a professional wrestler who can tell stories and come up with promos. I believe I have the capability to talk people into buildings, I believe that I developed those skills years ago and wanted to bring them here to WWE and you just want me to say your stupid lines. If you want somebody to read your stupid lines, hire an actor because they'd probably do a better job. I'm not interested in doing in."
> 
> He's still hoping that his version of the promo got through before the "pooper scooper" promo. He said that one of the promos that day had a distasteful remark about his friend, Roman Reigns, who was recovering from leukemia. Moxley said that he thought it was a mistake and the writers pushed him to say it. Moxley went ahead and said the promo and regretted it as soon as he said that line. Moxley went back into the writers room and they were able to get their version of the promo in before the "pooper scooper" got to Vince.
> 
> "Bear in mind that this is a billion dollar company, run by a man who's allegedly a genius," Moxley said. "And keep in mind that we're all adults and we're talking about stuff like this."
> 
> The new promo was written by Vince which had Moxley in a surgical mask, followed by a gas mask the following week and a full hazmat suit the week after. Moxley went into Vince again and felt exhausted, not just about that day, but the six years of explaining to an "old man" why the material was bad. They came to a compromise where Moxley wore a handkerchief instead. Moxley said he had no creative license and was just doing terrible crap. Moxley took off right after the show, had a drink and recalled what a waste of time the ordeal was.
> 
> Moxley rejected the notion that talent today are afraid to go off-script or get fired. He said that he's never been afraid to get fired and always goes in and gives his opinion. He said that he tries to convince the company that his ideas are better, but if he can't, then he goes with what's scripted because they sign his paychecks and he tries to make it the best he can.
> 
> Moxley then discussed the day when he knew 100% that he was gone from the company. He said he thought about walking out, but he didn't. This was the angle where he got shots and vaccinated during a backstage promo. He got to the arena and was staring at the promo seething during a sexual harassment meeting that the talent needed to attend. After the meeting, Vince wanted to meet with him over the promo because he wanted to make sure that it wasn't played for comedy. Vince met with Moxley and said that the promo was so well written and will get him a ton of heat. Moxley said that he will do whatever he can to make it good, and felt that it would be the last time that he would say it again. Vince loved the segment.
> 
> Moxley noted that day that he felt that he could not work there. He left for the airport feeling depressed.
> 
> "This promo also had a line about my actual friend who's going through leukemia that Vince wanted me to say, that he tried to talk me into saying," Moxley stated. "This is where I absolutely drew the line. I said, 'absolutely not.'"
> 
> Moxley said that Vince tried to talk him into saying the line a little bit, but he absolutely would not.
> 
> "It is the worst line," Moxley revealed. "I'm not going to say it on the air, I'll tell you after we're done. It would have been like a thing where someone would had to get fired, maybe me. They might have like lost sponsors, like the Susan G. Komen and all of that.
> 
> "I don't know who wrote it, I don't know if it was Vince himself. If it was a writer and he's listening right not, 'you should be ashamed of yourself.' You wouldn't believe it!"
> 
> Moxley said that he would have left WWE even if there were no other options.


Source


----------



## Fearless Viper

*Re: Jon Moxley Details Why He Left WWE, Promos Regarding Roman Reigns Cancer, Vince McMahon's Reactions*

Edit: wrong section,


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

*Re: Jon Moxley Details Why He Left WWE, Promos Regarding Roman Reigns Cancer, Vince McMahon's Reactions*

There's already a huge thread on this in the AEW section brah


----------



## Black Widow

RapShepard said:


> People are allowed to talk about what they want. I just don't want to hear some of it, and if it's on a podcast/intervieweI might voice how a part of it wasn't for me. Again I don't get what's so wild about my take lol


If you don't want to hear it then don't listen next time. What did you expect when you start listening? That he will not talk about hating working for WWE? If he did like it there he wouldn't leave.


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS

Laughable Chimp said:


> No offence, but your username is pretty stupid. Anyone who has a username on a wrestling forum describing their political affiliation as if that's the one thing they want most to be known about them is automatically assumed to be an imbecile by me. And this coming from a guy who calls himself laughable chimp.
> 
> Also, most of the politic talk comes off pretentious in this thread. Not sure if you're the one who brought it up initially, but politics talk in this type of thread is always pretentious to me.


I didn't bring politics into the discussion. Don't keep dragging me into off topic discussion with insults and expecting me not to clap back. Dish it, take it

but as far as my username goes 

Cry more :shrug

I won't take advice from people with little anime girls in their avatar and signature lol. Since you wanna talk about looking stupid (if not all out suspicious)


----------



## Chrome

Alright, let's chill and stick to discussing the podcast, and leave the politics and other goofy shit out of it.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Communist Anti-capitalist said:


> Communism became a topic of discussion because a couple of people are triggered by my username
> 
> But Oh gosh you're so cute and naive. I remember not understanding how all labor under capitalism is exploitative. I must've been about 15 last time I believed that crap actually


I don't really care about your political views, you do you. It is a bit weird you chose to display them for a username on a wrestling forum though :shrug

Maybe mods can change my username to "Center-left Libertarian" :lol

It's all good though man  Eye opening interview anyway. It's crazy just how similar a lot of the talent and the IWC view Vince/WWE.


----------



## jroc72191

Asuka842 said:


> Vince also did the same thing when Punk said that he was leaving as well.
> 
> I don't give a crap about how much money he has or if some people think that it's a better job. It doesn't make his point any less valid. This whole "he should shut up because blah blah blah money" nonsense is just that, nonsense.


he should shut up and dribbl, i mean wrestle!


----------



## xdxdxcx

Squeege said:


>




Yet u are the one posting stupid gif’s for attention. Lol ironic huh? Nothing even about what i said. Haha


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RapShepard

Black Widow said:


> If you don't want to hear it then don't listen next time. What did you expect when you start listening? That he will not talk about hating working for WWE? If he did like it there he wouldn't leave.


Fucking Christ how are you having this much trouble with comprehending lol

You tell me why your boss is an idiot or why your boss sucks I'm interested. You tell me the thought of going into work makes you sick, I think you're being dramatic in that instance.


----------



## ste1592

RapShepard said:


> Fucking Christ how are you having this much trouble with comprehending lol
> 
> You tell me why your boss is an idiot or why your boss sucks I'm interested. You tell me the thought of going into work makes you sick, I think you're being dramatic in that instance.


Well of course he is dramatic, he is on a podcast that has to be "sold" for an audience. If he said "you know, some mondays I felt like I'd rather sleep at home than go to work", people wouldn't have really seen what was the problem.


----------



## reyfan

MontyCora said:


> Moxley talking about Vince's perception of his character as a "whacky idiot" and Mox's obvious disdain is an amazing start.


To be fair his mannerisms at AEW weren't anything different, hopefully he can get more serious with his character as right now he looks like the same guy in AEW just with different pants.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Fucking Christ how are you having this much trouble with comprehending lol
> 
> You tell me why your boss is an idiot or why your boss sucks I'm interested. You tell me the thought of going into work makes you sick, I think you're being dramatic in that instance.


So you’ve said - i think let’s all shake and agree we understood your point. Some of us agree and some of us don’t

But 4 pages later, can we all move on from this?


----------



## RapShepard

ste1592 said:


> Well of course he is dramatic, he is on a podcast that has to be "sold" for an audience. If he said "you know, some mondays I felt like I'd rather sleep at home than go to work", people wouldn't have really seen what was the problem.


I get your angle, but it's just an annoyance of mine.


LifeInCattleClass said:


> So you’ve said - i think let’s all shake and agree we understood your point. Some of us agree and some of us don’t
> 
> But 4 pages later, can we all move on from this?


Don't you speak on what Black Widow understands.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> I get your angle, but it's just an annoyance of mine. Don't you speak on what Black Widow understands.


I’m sure he/she/they understands just fine - seems like a smart person

There can be no winner in this argument, it comes down to personal perception

And perception is a motherfucker


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I’m sure he/she/they understands just fine - seems like a smart person
> 
> 
> 
> There can be no winner in this argument, it comes down to personal perception
> 
> 
> 
> And perception is a motherfucker


I don't think they do, but you've asked nicely twice lol


----------



## looper007

Besides not liking some of the creative decisions, a bit of a shot at Lesnar and the stuff with Reigns. He wasn't quite on the same scale of Punk when it comes to burying WWE. He didn't like working there and wants something different, as I said WWE isn't the be all and end all it once was. 

I thought he was fair when he could have been even more ruthless, the stuff about been paid 500 dollars for the Shield special and some of the creative decisions would have made most angry and bitter. 

I still put the Punk podcast above it but Moxley one was a lot better then expected and shows that WWE isn't a place to be if you want creative freedom. So any talent who isn't happy with having promo's written out for them and having every little thing planned out for you, should probably stay away.


----------



## epfou1

Omaha steaks


----------



## Black Widow

RapShepard said:


> Fucking Christ how are you having this much trouble with comprehending lol
> 
> You tell me why your boss is an idiot or why your boss sucks I'm interested. You tell me the thought of going into work makes you sick, I think you're being dramatic in that instance.



You are the only one who is being dramatic. People feel what they feel and they can talk about that if they need to talk about that. It not only helps them by letting it out but it helps others too who might be dealing with the same stuff see they are not alone in it and they shouldn't accept it and do something about it.
It doesn't matter if you think that is annoying or dramatic. Like I said if you don't like it then don't listen. Nobody is forcing you to.
I am done having this conversation with you now because it is a waste of my time honestly.
Have a nice day.


----------



## RapShepard

Black Widow said:


> You are the only one who is being dramatic. People feel what they feel and they can talk about that if they need to talk about that. It not only helps them by letting it out but it helps others too who might be dealing with the same stuff see they are not alone in it and they shouldn't accept it and do something about it.
> 
> It doesn't matter if you think that is annoying or dramatic. Like I said if you don't like it then don't listen. Nobody is forcing you to.
> 
> I am done having this conversation with you now because it is a waste of my time honestly.
> 
> Have a nice day.


:lmao


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

epfou1 said:


> Omaha steaks


They must be LOVING their sponsorship right now 

And those kitty litter guys $$$$$


----------



## bradatar

Need to stay out of the WWE section. Three people not understanding a Billy Madison quote getting emotional has driven me to near insanity.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> I don't think they do, but you've asked nicely twice lol


k

:dance2



Black Widow said:


> You are the only one who is being dramatic. People feel what they feel and they can talk about that if they need to talk about that. It not only helps them by letting it out but it helps others too who might be dealing with the same stuff see they are not alone in it and they shouldn't accept it and do something about it.
> It doesn't matter if you think that is annoying or dramatic. Like I said if you don't like it then don't listen. Nobody is forcing you to.
> I am done having this conversation with you now because it is a waste of my time honestly.
> Have a nice day.


:braun


----------



## Empress

I've listened to this podcast twice now and believe Moxley from start to finish. He had that dead look in his eyes for at least a year. I called Seth/Ambrose 2.0 being a bust on night one. But it does suck that the company never had any plans for him and he was just the castaway of the Shield. All three should've risen together.

As for him being physically sick to go to work? Went through the same thing at one of my jobs. I quit. No paycheck is worth my well being and I'm glad he knew that the WWE didn't define him.

He's clearly not the only one who feels that strongly but others may be stuck in their contracts. I hope they all get the hell out of there. Vince has arguably been able to weaponize WWE as a monopoly and just draining the passion wrestlers and fans have for the product. Vince also sounds like a straight loon. I didn't need Moxley to confirm but the way he uses Reigns' cancer has been disgusting. If it's not for sympathy, heat or maybe even keeping Reigns in line, something's not right with him. But then again, he also wanted to father Stephanie's baby.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

bradatar said:


> Need to stay out of the WWE section. Three people not understanding a Billy Madison quote getting emotional has driven me to near insanity.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Billy Madison has a higher IQ than WWE marks. They are in full damage control mode over there after Mox ripped Vince a new one.


----------



## bradatar

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> Billy Madison has a higher IQ than WWE marks. They are in full damage control mode over there after Mox ripped Vince a new one.




Sucks that thread got locked because my response to that dude going wild on me was “the penguin made me do it”. I probably coulda had him going for hours. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

bradatar said:


> Need to stay out of the WWE section. Three people not understanding a Billy Madison quote getting emotional has driven me to near insanity.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Mate... i saw that... i was like ‘outta here’

Who hasn’t seen Billy madison?!


----------



## bradatar

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Mate... i saw that... i was like ‘outta here’
> 
> 
> 
> Who hasn’t seen Billy madison?!




I think I can watch it blindfolded and recite every line that’s why I was mind boggled. That’s how I know they’re probably like 15 year old Roman marks. Ah well, been a fun ride. Time to tune into live threads and say THIS SHIT IS GREAT when Shane wins the title.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

THIS SHIT IS GREAT!! ITS SO YOU!


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

What a fucking podcast. So glad Jon did this interview and spoke his mind.

You know, we've all read stuff on here and other sites from other posters and even 'insiders' who talk about how bad the creative process is in WWE these days. Just how completely and utterly lost and out of touch Vince is these days. You read it, you nod in agreement, and you move on. You might even take what the insiders say with a grain of salt because they're not actually there.

Alot of people wrote off what Punk said on the Cabana podcast in 2015 because Punk is a dick and a whiner and this and that. Well, now you got someone who isn't any of those things, FOUR YEARS LATER, saying aloooot of the same stuff and in some cases even worse re: Vince.

Alot of folks have said stuff like this on this very board and others re: Vince and WWE creative and whatnot. But to now have it confirmed for the second time in 4 years (Punk) is kind of damning for the folks who didn't believe Punk, for anyone who defends WWE and Vince these days, and very much for Vince/WWE themselves.

Some on here (and elsewhere) keep saying that the wrestlers are 'pussies' and don't make suggestions and just go along with what they're given. Well, here's one guy who's been there for the past 7 years in a very relevant spot who is saying NOPE to those people when he said that the wrestlers DO make suggestions and '95%' of what they suggest is rejected.

Or, that it's the wrestlers faults for 'not having charisma' and not all Vince. Well, there aren't any Austin's or Rock's on the roster, but as Moxley confirmed, the entire atmosphere in WWE is toxic from top to bottom, and the creative process in WWE is "shit."

Jon Moxley confirmed what anyone with a functioning brain can see from just watching the WWE creative process play out on TV the majority of this past decade. IT IS SHIT. No one is above it because it's so damn shit.

I'm very happy that he did what made him happy and left WWE AND now even took a huge, steaming, SHIT on the old fuck on the way out. Vince deserves this so richly and quite frankly deserves alot more of it. Every passing day he shits on his legacy more and more and it's not even a question. The fact that Moxley is even telling others (like Seth) to leave says ALOT. Shit is toxic in this company these days and it's ENTIRELY on ONE person. 

Also getting it confirmed that Vince's sense of comedy is so fucking shit and cringe these days by someone who interacted with Vince and to know it's just as shit in private is something else, too. 

I really hope some of WWE's sponsors listen to this interview and start to question WWE just why this fucking absolutely unglued maniac is still somehow allowed to run a multi-billion dollar business. I mean, the fact that he wanted him to say something even worse about Reigns' cancer then he already said should be a HUGE red flag for any sponsor with a clue.

I unfortunately wasn't able to watch Double or Nothing due to it falling on Saturday night on Memorial Day weekend and having to do family stuff with the wife and our families, but I read about it and saw alot of clips and love what I read/heard. I hope they put it out on blu ray. I'd absolutely buy it. And earlier today I made my first AEW purchases with ordering a CODY T-shirt from Pro Wrestling Tee's along with an AEW pullover hoodie. I'm completely on board. I want WWE's ratings to crash. This is above who the champions are or anything like that. Any rating Raw and SD gets is further confirmation that what Vince is doing is working and further confirms in his brain that what he is doing is right. I hate this man so much these days that even with Seth as Champ on Raw, I don't care. Like I said, this is above some shitty looking prop "title." I want to watch a product that entertains me and has a sports like background AND alittle bit of everything for everyone with a functioning brain.

THANK GOD Mox's contract ran out at just the right time, and thank GOD he made the right decision.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Imagine if out of all of this, we learn Shawn Spears is like god-tier, full package - out of wwe’s control, he’s like the best ever


----------



## jroc72191

bradatar said:


> Need to stay out of the WWE section. Three people not understanding a Billy Madison quote getting emotional has driven me to near insanity.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


if it was the "may God have mercy on your soul" quote then you deserve a kick in the nuts


----------



## Beatles123

Cthulhu R'lyeh said:


> What an ungrateful SOB. Dean Ambrose is nothing without Vince McMahon.


Found HHH's mole account.


----------



## FROSTY

Mox Girl said:


> I knew it! I even said he probably did last week


It's unbelievable he shot that on his 2 days off between loops, around the Royal Rumble time. Flew out to LA and rented a set/location, shot the thing, then had a buddy set a timer on Twitter to tweet this out at the stroke of midnight when his contract was up. A lot of heart and soul and planning and feeling went into that prison break promo tease, and it's had 3 million plus views for his efforts.



Donnie said:


> Mox got paid $500 for his last match :lmao


And he didn't even complain because he thought it would be funnier to just take it and go. Sounds like he might not even cash the check and instead frame it :bryanlol


----------



## FROSTY

*Re: Jon Moxley “Talk is Jericho” highlights aka Goes the fuck in on Vince*



IronMan8 said:


> Which promo was the one where he knew for sure he'd be leading?


The one where the doctor gave him shots in his ass to not get diseases from the disgusting fans lol.

But he said he knew he was done back in July of 2018, that promo just made it to where he wouldn't even look at their contract offer.


----------



## bradatar

jroc72191 said:


> if it was the "may God have mercy on your soul" quote then you deserve a kick in the nuts




It was and I know it’s overplayed but it fit the thread so well. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Beatles123

Zappers said:


> What's funny about this entire thing. Wrestlers complaining that creative/writers have bad ideas which are ruining the show. Then they go on to tell people, Well I stood up to them and no way I'm not gonna do that or say that. I told told Vince this , I told Vince that.....
> 
> Well guess what geniuses. THAT'S the final product we saw. The wrestlers ideas coming to life. :duck
> 
> The ratings and crap product is on you, the wrestler. You didn't want to do what you were told. Thought you knew better. Obviously, you didn't. Nobody to blame but yourself for not doing your job.


Wrong. Dean got to do NONE of what he wanted.


----------



## Hephaesteus

Not that I don't appreciate the chaos created by this interview, but why burn this bridge on the way out the door? He was one of the few people to leave WWE on good terms, then this interview comes out. Fun interview, but not the smartest thing to do.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Hephaesteus said:


> Not that I don't appreciate the chaos created by this interview, but why burn this bridge on the way out the door? He was one of the few people to leave WWE on good terms, then this interview comes out. Fun interview, but not the smartest thing to do.


They paid him $500 for his last show. You think that's leaving on good terms?

If you listened to his interview you would know he was miserable working there. He said if WWE was the last wrestling company he still would have left.


----------



## bradatar

Hephaesteus said:


> Not that I don't appreciate the chaos created by this interview, but why burn this bridge on the way out the door? He was one of the few people to leave WWE on good terms, then this interview comes out. Fun interview, but not the smartest thing to do.




They wanted him to roll over to Nia GTFO. In a business standpoint he brought to light something we all were curious about too. Now we know how bad management is and the product won’t change until Vince is gone. I’m not going to waste my money or time on garbage when there is an alternative. People are underestimating the power of social media today ESPECIALLY with wrestling fans. Mox is prob one of the most popular guys in the world after a few promos and a beatdown. MJF is a fucking star already. Good booking/letting guys be creative is so simple and WWE can’t even do that. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## AEWMoxley

Hephaesteus said:


> Not that I don't appreciate the chaos created by this interview, but why burn this bridge on the way out the door? He was one of the few people to leave WWE on good terms, then this interview comes out. Fun interview, but not the smartest thing to do.


He didn't burn anything. There have been people who have said or done much worse, and they've come back.

Vince would take him back. Hell, he would even take CM Punk back, who came off as way more bitter.

However, unless things change drastically, it doesn't look like either of them will ever have any interest in returning to WWE.


----------



## KingCosmos

Im glad he is going to NJPW for a match. Maybe they can teach him not to throw shane level punches


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Mate... i saw that... i was like ‘outta here’
> 
> *Who hasn’t seen Billy madison?!*


I haven't.


----------



## Derek30

Holy shit. This is amazing. He is an amazing story teller and I can't wait to see what he's able to do in AEW in the months and years to come. Fantastic interview


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

RapShepard said:


> Fucking Christ how are you having this much trouble with comprehending lol
> 
> You tell me why your boss is an idiot or why your boss sucks I'm interested. You tell me the thought of going into work makes you sick, I think you're being dramatic in that instance.


I've been there. Maybe I'm not pulling in 7 figures, but I'm well above the national income average. And I've been in that position where I absolutely hated getting out of bed every morning to go to work, where walking in that door every day made me physically ill. Mostly because my boss was a miserable micromanaging cunt. I got out and found tolerable employment elsewhere. I can completely relate to where Mox is coming from. He's not being dramatic, he's just telling it like it is. 

No, no job is perfect; but there's a difference between not liking some aspects of your job and being somewhere that takes a total mental and emotional toll on you. Maybe you've never been in the latter, or else I don't think you'd be rolling your eyes at someone else who has.


----------



## Alright_Mate

Just listened to it, my main take from it was that Vince McMahon basically has a brain of a 5 year old.

Was never an Ambrose fan but throughout that podcast I started feeling sorry for him, the amount of goofy garbage they put him through would drive anybody crazy.

Regarding AEW, a lot have mentioned this word when describing them, Moxley did the same..."Freedom". Wrestlers in WWE and independents will want to sign with AEW for that reason, freedom.

You could hear the excitement in his voice, like he's been let out of handcuffs after seven years.

After listening to that why would anybody want to join WWE, as we've known for so long, Vince's way fucking sucks and can easily drive wrestlers to depression, Moxley said it himself "Your creative process sucks, change it".

A free Jon Moxley is a dangerous Jon Moxley, can't wait to see what he does with this creative freedom.


----------



## FITZ

I found that really interesting. There's some similarities to Punk's but they have a completely different take on everything. Punk was so unhappy he didn't want to wrestle anymore. Moxley didn't get there. While there was some things he was really unhappy about you can tell that he's looking forward to the future. 

Also there was a lot of head nodding on my part. As a fan I really felt like I was going through a lesser version of what he was. I love wrestling. WWE has been sucking my love of it away for years. And now I'm really excited that I have a real alternative (and shit did I really want to say competitor instead of alternative) that's going to do things differently.


----------



## Hephaesteus

bradatar said:


> They wanted him to roll over to Nia GTFO. In a business standpoint he brought to light something we all were curious about too. Now we know how bad management is and the product won’t change until Vince is gone. I’m not going to waste my money or time on garbage when there is an alternative. People are underestimating the power of social media today ESPECIALLY with wrestling fans. Mox is prob one of the most popular guys in the world after a few promos and a beatdown. MJF is a fucking star already. Good booking/letting guys be creative is so simple and WWE can’t even do that.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We already knew all of this. Dean didn't tell us anything he aint already know. 



nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> They paid him $500 for his last show. You think that's leaving on good terms?
> 
> If you listened to his interview you would know he was miserable working there. He said if WWE was the last wrestling company he still would have left.


He also said he didn't look at the money when signing with the AEW which is an absolutely idiotic thing to do with an unproven company. As for the pay, issue to take up with them there. I still don't understand how airing his grievances like this benefits him.



AEWMoxley said:


> He didn't burn anything. There have been people who have said or done much worse, and they've come back.
> 
> Vince would take him back. Hell, he would even take CM Punk back, who came off as way more bitter.
> 
> However, unless things change drastically, it doesn't look like either of them will ever have any interest in returning to WWE.


People have to eat shit when they come back. Dean likely wouldn't have had to do that. Not anymore. 

Besides who knows what happens in the future. Hope it was worth it.


----------



## Trivette

I'm not a big podcast guy but this was a gripping, engaging, and entertaining listen. Jericho rarely interjected but mostly allowed Mox to tell his story. It affirms many nagging suspicions of why the WWE product just hasn't delivered over the last few years. Mania 34 was a mess and ended in a Beach Ball Boo Fest. 35 was exponentially improved, but still bloated with much of the same old thing. The product is micromanaged down to the word and even the movements in ring. It's stale and sterile and now we know why.

Mox handled the telling with class, professionalism, and care. It's clear that we've only seen a fraction of what Moxley can deliver in the ring, via promos, techniques, and psychology. His passion for the craft and art of wrestling is inspiring to be sure. He has the potential to pull off some great things moving on, that dare I say will surpass any and all of his achievements in the WWE universe. His legions of fans are certain to follow along. I for one am more excited for pro wrestling than I've been in years.


----------



## bradatar

Reggie Dunlop said:


> I've been there. Maybe I'm not pulling in 7 figures, but I'm well above the national income average. And I've been in that position where I absolutely hated getting out of bed every morning to go to work, where walking in that door every day made me physically ill. Mostly because my boss was a miserable micromanaging cunt. I got out and found tolerable employment elsewhere. I can completely relate to where Mox is coming from. He's not being dramatic, he's just telling it like it is.
> 
> 
> 
> No, no job is perfect; but there's a difference between not liking some aspects of your job and being somewhere that takes a total mental and emotional toll on you. Maybe you've never been in the latter, or else I don't think you'd be rolling your eyes at someone else who has.




I agree with you as I’m dealing with it right now. I’m making low 6 figures but hate every week day of my life. It’s hard to just leave at that level and find equal pay when you grow accustomed to a life style. I tip my hat for you getting out of your toxic environment. One day for me hopefully! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kingnoth1n

Laughable Chimp said:


> No offence, but your username is pretty stupid. Anyone who has a username on a wrestling forum describing their political affiliation as if that's the one thing they want most to be known about them is automatically assumed to be an imbecile by me. And this coming from a guy who calls himself laughable chimp.
> 
> Also, most of the politic talk comes off pretentious in this thread. Not sure if you're the one who brought it up initially, but politics talk in this type of thread is always pretentious to me.


I agree, it is real neckbeard shit.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Hephaesteus said:


> I still don't understand how airing his grievances like this benefits hi.


I honestly don't think he intended for it to benefit himself. He's already improved his own situation by getting out. But if he somehow gets WWE to change their creative process, it will benefit everybody. At the very least, it should benefit some talent thinking of signing there, or talent already in there wondering if it's better anywhere else. He loves the business, and exposing a toxic environment will possibly/hopefully improve things for everybody else in it.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Hephaesteus said:


> He also said he didn't look at the money when signing with the AEW which is an absolutely idiotic thing to do with an unproven company. As for the pay, issue to take up with them there. I still don't understand how airing his grievances like this benefits hi.


He also said if WWE offered him 10 million he wouldn't know what to do with it because he already has everything paid off. Money doesn't buy happiness for everyone. 

He's one of the few wrestlers now that cares more about expressing himself doing what he loves than working for WWE just because it's the top promotion and basically being a puppet on a string for Vince's own personal amusement.


----------



## kingnoth1n

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> He also said if WWE offered him 10 million he wouldn't know what to do with it because he already has everything paid off. Money doesn't buy happiness for everyone.
> 
> He's one of the few wrestlers now that cares more about expressing himself doing what he loves than working for WWE just because it's the top promotion and basically being a puppet on a string for Vince's own personal amusement.


Some people can't grasp that concept, the goal in life ultimately should be to be on a brock schedule imo though. lol


----------



## EMGESP

So this was Dean's reaction to all the scripts sent to him.

:deanfpalm


----------



## DammitChrist

Honestly, this podcast pretty much made me respect Jon Moxley even more than I did already :drose

His patience (for willing to wait 9 months for his WWE contract to expire without saying a word) and endurance (from dealing with Vince's crap for YEARS) amazes me :clap :clap



Zappers said:


> What's funny about this entire thing. Wrestlers complaining that creative/writers have bad ideas which are ruining the show. Then they go on to tell people, Well I stood up to them and no way I'm not gonna do that or say that. I told told Vince this , I told Vince that.....
> 
> Well guess what geniuses. THAT'S the final product we saw. The wrestlers ideas coming to life. :duck
> 
> The ratings and crap product is on you, the wrestler. You didn't want to do what you were told. Thought you knew better. Obviously, you didn't. Nobody to blame but yourself for not doing your job.


Wait, are you feeling threatened by AEW being a better alternative for wrestling fans? :lol

I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't even bother listening to what Jon Moxley and Chris Jericho said in this podcast since they buried the hell out of Vince along with his terrible creative process :bosque


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

This was a good listen. It's crazy that he would be physically sick before every show. Him being depressed and having to fight to change things etc. WWE is really just hell for someone who want's to be so creative and feeling fulfilled and loving pro wrestling. I'm glad Jon is out of that and you know what? I can't wait to see what he does next.


----------



## llj

I'm really not surprised he would be physically sick before shows. Up until I decided to pull my emotional investment out of the product, it had gotten to the point where I was afraid for what nasty creative booby traps awaited my favorite wrestlers too. It literally is unpleasant viewing.


----------



## Beatles123

The people criticizing him for feeling sick on the way to work must not understand the kind of depression working for a boss you hate can create over a prolonged period. It's not a matter of saying "Suck it up, cupcake" and walking in there and punching him in the face and leaving. In fact, in this particular scenario Jon was under contract so he couldn't leave if he wanted to. Therefore, not only is he in a toxic work environment but he's bound to it legally with no respite. All this while trying to appease the inconsistent mind of a neurotic old fool who's ideas are about as clear and straightforward as something dreamed up by Syd Barrett himself.

Speaking of Syd, why don't we compare his thought process as a man suffering from mental insanity to Vince's? Let us take a listen to this short little tale from his former Pink Floyd band mate, Roger Waters...






^ 4:15 - Does this not sound like what Jon is describing with Vince, changing plans on a whim for seemingly no reason?

Now, the idea here is *NOT* to assert any sort of claim that Vince is in any way insane himself, but rather to point out the fact that it does make a case for the argument that the entire WWE creative structure is nothing but a group of people constructing a giant labyrinth in an attempt to navigate his seemingly incomprehensible mindset and vision. He has no idea what he or the writing team is doing for any solid period of time and could destroy what little progress they DO make on anything substantial at any moment. Why then is it so hard to believe that a creative individual like Mox, who at one time had one of the most compelling characters in WWE history on FCW television during his feud with William Regal, would be near exhausted having to stifle his own talent week in, week out for years on end just for all of his effort to go the way of the windmill from Animal Farm? As an artist, one HAS to have a creative outlet for their ideas. If no ideas are usable or the passion dries up, you may as well be dead on your feet.


----------



## looper007

The Raw Smackdown said:


> This was a good listen. It's crazy that he would be physically sick before every show. Him being depressed and having to fight to change things etc. WWE is really just hell for someone who want's to be so creative and feeling fulfilled and loving pro wrestling. I'm glad Jon is out of that and you know what? I can't wait to see what he does next.


Two top guys have now come out and said to the public that if you want a place to be creative and been fulfilled that at this time maybe WWE isn't the place to be. 

But you still see talent sign weekly to WWE, I'm sure plenty of the talent aren't feeling the same way as Punk and Moxley. Some are just happy to pick up the payday and do what they are told, and been creative isn't everything. Some probably think at least a year or two in WWE even as a jobber, will at least bump up their payday on the indies. Some dream is to be in WWE and everything else is not worth it. I'm sure their is more then just Sasha Bank's and The Revival not liking it either, but they are keeping it to themselves. 

You will see more and more come out of the woodwork as the year goes on.


----------



## EMGESP

Jon is definitely in a much better place now. I bet he felt great after his AEW NXT.


----------



## RapShepard

Reggie Dunlop said:


> I've been there. Maybe I'm not pulling in 7 figures, but I'm well above the national income average. And I've been in that position where I absolutely hated getting out of bed every morning to go to work, where walking in that door every day made me physically ill. Mostly because my boss was a miserable micromanaging cunt. I got out and found tolerable employment elsewhere. I can completely relate to where Mox is coming from. He's not being dramatic, he's just telling it like it is.
> 
> 
> 
> No, no job is perfect; but there's a difference between not liking some aspects of your job and being somewhere that takes a total mental and emotional toll on you. Maybe you've never been in the latter, or else I don't think you'd be rolling your eyes at someone else who has.


Nah I really dreaded my sales job. Shit would make me nervous to just go in, dreaded getting a call. I wasn't even as professional as Moxley to give them a heads up, I Just left. 

But shit like that is one of the parts of adult life that at least in my up bringing you suck up and keep to yourself. Im not saying his feelings arent valid. Its simply hes not special in this regard of "oh I hated pulling up to work". Plenty of folk hate work, tough titty if an entertainer doesn't enhoy their job.


----------



## Scissor Me Daddy-O!!

Laughable Chimp said:


> No offence, but your username is pretty stupid. Anyone who has a username on a wrestling forum describing their political affiliation as if that's the one thing they want most to be known about them is automatically assumed to be an imbecile by me. And this coming from a guy who calls himself laughable chimp.
> 
> Also, most of the politic talk comes off pretentious in this thread. Not sure if you're the one who brought it up initially, but politics talk in this type of thread is always pretentious to me.


What about my username?



llj said:


> I'm really not surprised he would be physically sick before shows. Up until I decided to pull my emotional investment out of the product, it had gotten to the point where I was afraid for what nasty creative booby traps awaited my favorite wrestlers too. It literally is unpleasant viewing.


Yeah. Having a passion for something and not being able to do it is fustrating. I can't even imagine his situation, being so close to wrestling but not being able to do it remotely to his liking. 

Wade Barret said similar stuff, near the end of his stint.


----------



## RapShepard

Beatles123 said:


> The people criticizing him for feeling sick on the way to work must not understand the kind of depression working for a boss you hate can create over a prolonged period. It's not a matter of saying "Suck it up, cupcake" and walking in there and punching him in the face and leaving. In fact, in this particular scenario Jon was under contract so he couldn't leave if he wanted to. Therefore, not only is he in a toxic work environment but he's bound to it legally with no respite. All this while trying to appease the inconsistent mind of a neurotic old fool who's ideas are about as clear and straightforward as something dreamed up by Syd Barrett himself.


The thing is Moxley and entertainers aren't special when they dread going to work. They're not being any more strong or anything else than the billions of other folks who have worked years at a job they hate. Now I'm truly happy that he found somewhere he feels he could be happy.
But if I don't feel bad for the cashier that bags my groceries that hates he's working in fucking Kroger, why am I supposed to feel bad Moxley? Yeah he dreaded his job and that does suck, but at least it came with 7 figures and the love of his life. Most people that dread their job don't get perks like that.


----------



## The XL 2

Cthulhu R'lyeh said:


> What an ungrateful SOB. Dean Ambrose is nothing without Vince McMahon.


Lol, McMahon wouldn't be shit if he didn't have Hogan in the 80s and he would have went under in the 90s if he didn't luck out into having the two greatest talents the business has ever seen on the roster at the same time, Austin and Rock


----------



## HugoCortez

Friggin' Mox boy just did it, he did what most of us wanted him to do, and then some more. About jodido time someone told it how it is with el viejo senil Vince. That's it, I'm watching AEW.


----------



## Efie_G

This podcast was amazing. I love getting this insight because it makes me remember Moxley is a regular dude like me. I appreciate him more now.


----------



## AEWMoxley

The XL 2 said:


> Lol, McMahon wouldn't be shit if he didn't have Hogan in the 80s and he would have went under in the 90s if he didn't luck out into having the two greatest talents the business has ever seen on the roster at the same time, Austin and Rock


This is true. Vince's only strong suit was the business and promotion aspect of wrestling. He's always been embarrassingly bad at the creative side. Let's not forget that he never saw anything in Stone Cold, and originally wanted him to be a comedy jobber named "Fang McFrost." Imagine the absolute disaster it would have been to completely bury the best talent on the roster during a ratings war.

It's also well known that the majority of great promos and moments in the 90s were a result of guys taking matters into their own hands and ad-libbing. Vince would get mad at them, but there was not much he could do, because it drew huge ratings, and that's exactly what they needed to survive during that period.


----------



## Beatles123

RapShepard said:


> The thing is Moxley and entertainers aren't special when they dread going to work. They're not being any more strong or anything else than the billions of other folks who have worked years at a job they hate. Now I'm truly happy that he found somewhere he feels he could be happy.
> But if I don't feel bad for the cashier that bags my groceries that hates he's working in fucking Kroger, why am I supposed to feel bad Moxley? Yeah he dreaded his job and that does suck, but at least it came with 7 figures and the love of his life. Most people that dread their job don't get perks like that.


You don't mind the job you hate because you are just working there. You aren't trying to be respected by your peers in an industry you love only to be held down by bullshit politics. Do that for seven years and see what it does to you, It's different than working at a grocers.

The point of him complaining about it was that he had TOLD THEM this wasnt what he wanted to do and Vince never listened. AND THEN Vince has the unmitigated GALL to hand him a note saying "Dean needs to read promos as written". I think at that point he is WELL justified to say "Listen, you old crusty sack of shit. I'm running myself ragged trying to make YOU money by doing all this thankless tripe. You're making me hate the very thing I've loved since I was a child and I feel disgusted working for you."


----------



## BarrettBarrage

The whole "look, you got paid lots of money, who cares if you were incredibly unhappy" mindset is very American.
It’s fucked up as hell that you’re expected to just suck it up because you get a decent paycheque.


----------



## 45banshee

*Jon Moxley talks about the day his mind was made up to leave WWE on Chris Jerichos po*

Sorry I can't embed the text. There's a lot to read here. Reading his reason to leave WWE..wow if this truly is the state of creative, this is worse than I thought. Elementary insults, non consistency, worse of all Jox was written to say Roman deserved his Leukemia. 

You can tell by the end of Jon's WWE run he didnt care much.

Hope he finds great success and is more happy in AEW. 

He does say he's thankful for WWE for giving him bigger exposure to a wider audience and that he found Renee Young

https://www.cagesideseats.com/platform/amp/wwe/2019/5/29/18644146/jon-moxley-dean-ambrose-why-left-wwe-roman-reigns-leukemia-angle


Decided to copy and paste the text for y'all

This is the day that I started - I remember being in the writer’s room and pulling out my phone and counting down the days... We’re in L.A., early start - show starts at 5. Get there at noon, Seth gets there about the same time as me. Working with Seth, I’m the bad guy at this point, I’m a heel. Get to the arena, and immediately a bunch of writers come up to me with a bunch of scripts, and the thread throughout the show is that Seth Rollins will be challenging me to come out to the ring and fight and I will pop on the screen and cut a promo and then - I’ve got like six promos throughout the night saying various stuff and then at the very end we finally have a big fight in the ring, right? So it’s gonna be a long day. Lotta running around, some are gonna be live, some are gonna be pre-taped. Even pre-taped ones that should take 30 seconds, as you know, in WWE they can take 40 minutes...

They hand me these scripts and, to my eye, all the things that are on these scripts - they’re typical WWE scripts. It’s a bunch of words, a bunch of big words, a bunch of goofy words, none of it makes any sense to me. We’re not telling any kind of tangible story, we’re not doing anything to get any kind of characters over or - nothing that makes any sense to me, so, you know, typical.

The one I’m most concerned with is the in-ring promo at the end of the night... 6:16. So we go into the writer’s room, I start reading this promo. And, again, not trying to pass judgement, but to my eye, in my opinion - this is absolute hot garbage, awful crap. I can’t make any sense of it, I don’t know what we’re even saying. The main jist of it was that the people were smelly, disgusting people and they’re foul, disgusting - you can kind of just see Vince saying these words, ‘Ohh, Liverpool - sounds like a skin disease’ you know? You can just picture the Vince face. I don’t know who wrote this, but if it was you, you should be ashamed of yourself...

The things that catches my eye the most is a joke about a pooper scooper. I’m gonna let that hang in the air for a minute. I’m gonna let you really absorb it, then I’m gonna say it again - pooper scooper. Like something along the lines of I wouldn’t come out there without a pooper scooper. I’m like, ‘I’m not saying that, so let’s change it.’ So I’m like, ‘did Vince write this?’ ‘We don’t know who wrote it’, so Vince -

Here’s how the creative process works in WWE. It doesn’t really make any sense, I still don’t know how it works but, so, now it’s like, okay, Vince is in a meeting, so we have to try and re-write it, send it in to Koski, have it re-printed, and put it in front of Vince without the pooper scooper line. Because if he sees it, he’s gonna fall in love with it, and then he’s gonna be like ‘Aw, ya gotta say the pooper scooper line! It’s such good shit!’ So we’re like, okay, hurry up and take out the pooper scooper line. So he writes, it’s something along of the lines of - we’re in L.A., he tries to insult the content of their character more so than their actual smell. He says something along the lines of ‘Oh, L.A. shallow trash, I wouldn’t come out here without a gas mask’ or something. Remember that, because it’s gonna be important later.

And then I’m like, ‘okay, whatever, I might not say that line but okay whatever, we’ll worry about it later - let’s just get it in front of Vince without the pooper scooper line, cause I’m just like - that’s just too embarrassing, I can’t say that.’ So anyway, we get it in, we send it in, we cross our fingers that Vince sees our version and not the original version.

So then I go off to do, then I’m a little bit exhausted just from this insanity. So I’m going off to do the next promo that was in a hallway with another writer. And I’m reading it and again, it doesn’t make any sense, I don’t really know what I’m saying, or what points I’m making, or how I’m supposed to be getting any heat or telling any story or any - I told the writer, I said, ‘ You know, if we didn’t have to run around trying to like, make ourselves not look like idiots and get rid of pooper scooper lines and stuff like that, we could actually sit down and tell a story. We’re all just in self-preservation mode trying to not look like idiots instead of creating good things.’ He’s like ‘ah, uh, hhhh’ whatever. Do that promo, I think that was pre-taped. Come back to the writers room and I’m like ‘any update?’ No update yet, but we did get this - notes from VKM.

And it says, ‘Notes from VKM: Dean needs to understand why he needs to insult the audience. Dean needs to read his promos verbatum and not try to re-write them.’ And I’m just like [long sigh]. Just like the feeling of getting punched in the gut like ‘what the...’ And I said to the writer, it’s not his fault, but I yelled at him. He just took the brunt of it. I’m like, ‘Why do I work here? I’m a professional wrestler who can tell stories and come up with promos and I believe that I have the abillity to talk people into buildings, I learned those skills years ago and wanted to bring them here to WWE and you just want me to say your stupid lines. If you want somebody to read your stupid lines, hire an actor. Cause they’ll probably do a better job of it than me. I’m not interested in doing it.’

So I’m just like ‘uh’, so we’re still just hoping we got our version in before the pooper scooper version. So go off to do ANOTHER promo, I believe this one was live. And again, it doesn’t really make any sense to me, I’m just like saying stuff. And earlier I had to go into Vince, because in this promo there is a line, that’s a very distasteful line taking a jab at my friend who had leukemia and is now going off to recover from that, Roman Reigns. I don’t remember what the line was, but I went, ‘I’m not saying that - are you kidding me?’ I’m going right into Vince on this one, this is clearly a mistake. [Jericho: It’s a cheap heat line.] Yeah, this is clearly a mistake, right.

I go into, I think it was a production meeting at the time, and I’m just like, ‘Hey, real quick, this is [laughs] surely you don’t want me to say this.’ And he’s like ‘oh but Roman’s part of the story, we’ve got to make sure he’s still included, you turn on him and Seth,’ and he kind of explains it to me, ‘you know, you just say the thing about Roman, just include him’. And he said it in kind of an innocuous way, where it kind of didn’t seem so bad, and I was just like, ‘uh, okay’ and all the writers were like ‘oh, you gotta say this’ and basically he gave me the Vince jedi mind trick. Which I’m pretty immune to at this point, but every once in a while he still gets me. It’s my fault, I got jedi-ed, whatever.

So I think this one we did live, I cut the promo. Soon as that line left my mouth, I went ‘Oh my God I can’t believe I just said that. [Jericho asks if Moxley remembers what it was] It was just something about ‘He’s got cancer, sucks to be him’ something like that. Not cool... and in the middle of all this, trying to get pooper scooper lines out of the script, I don’t even realize that this HORRIBLE thing that I shouldn’t be saying, it’s like oh my god.

Now I go back into the writers room, this is getting to be an exhausting day. And if you’re having trouble following all this, imagine what it was like to be me. So I go back into the writers room and - success! We got our version of the promo in before the pooper scooper line. And also, keep in mind during all this - this is a billion dollar company, run by a man who’s allegedly a genius. And keep in mind, we’re all adults, and we’re talking about stuff like this. So, good news, we got it in before the pooper scooper line. But when he wrote that, whatever line he wrote ‘I wouldn’t come out here without a gas mask or whatever’, now, I read the new promo, now this is written by Vince.

And it says, ‘Dean Ambrose enters wearing a surgical mask,’ you know, like a mask like a doctor would wear to protect you against diseases, disease from the disgusting smelly people. And it’s just more of the same... and I’m so embarrassed and I’m just like, ‘are you kidding me?’ Cause he saw the gas mask - here’s where he made a mistake. He used a noun. You gotta watch out for nouns, cause Vince will turn a noun into a prop real quick. So now I’m wearing a surgical mask. ‘He wants you to wear a surgical mask tonight, then next week come out with a gas mask, and then the next week come out in a full HazMat suit’ to protect myself against the disgusting fans. And I’m like ‘OH MY GOD’, so now I gotta go in to Vince. Again.

I remember I walked up to his office, where he is at this point. And Koski was about to go in to go over something or whatever and I’m like, ‘can I go in real quick? I just gotta do this,’ and he’s like okay, cool. And I was about to walk in and I was just like, ‘can you give me 30 seconds though first?’ I remember physically leaning on a road case and feeling like actual exhaustion, just like emotional, physical, mental exhaustion. And not so much because of that day, but because of six years of this. Six years of having to go into this man’s office - this old man, and trying to explain to him why wearing a surgical mask is a stupid idea. Why carrying a little red wagon to the ring is a stupid idea. Why naming a mannequin in the ring is a stupid idea. I was just like, I was done.

So I go in, and I’m like, ‘yo, I tried to explain it that like I don’t think people will be able to understand me if they can’t see my mouth moving.’ But he’s like, ‘oh, but it’s such...’ So we came to some sort of compromise where I have like a handkerchief, which is a little less embarrassing and he’s just like, ‘oh, you just - it’s just so you. You don’t want to lose that thing that makes you you cause you have so much creative license you can do anything. You can check with props, see if maybe you can put a clothespin on your nose, I don’t know, something like that.’ I’m thinking, ‘What? Creative license? What creative license do I have? I do exactly what you tell me and it’s terrible crap. That’s not creative license.’

So I’m like oh my god, so, whatever, do the promo with the handkerchief, whatever. I remember I ran out of the building when I was done. We had a big fight, I was hot, had a little bit of adrenaline. Everybody’s super happy, people are high-fiving at the end of the show like it was this great success. We got in the truck, went to the hotel around the corner and as soon as I got in the room I was just like - first of all, I need a drink right now. Second of all, I’m like what a waste of time. We didn’t accomplish anything. I have nothing. I did six promos, I can’t tell you what I said. I can’t tell you what the story is. Our angle now is gonna be dead, if it wasn’t dead already. You know? I don’t even have words.”


----------



## Darkest Lariat

It was interesting to learn he only paid $8K for that Twitter vignette. Especially when most people were like "WWE made it, it's professionally done, derrrr" Like WWE have the only access to professional media services. It was cool to know that it was Nick Mondo from CZW on top of it. Pretty rad interview. The guy ate a lot of shit in WWE I wouldn't have.


----------



## SPCDRI

jroc72191 said:


> this makes me sadder than most people realize.


This place probably doesn't even get 50 new members a years, and out of those less than 50 new members, less than 10 of them become frequent posters, and of the 8 or less that become frequent posters, at least one of the frequent posters is either a badposter or a fucking atrocious shitposter troll. Now think how many people stop using this place every year? WWE being in the shitheap has really harmed this board. 

place seems dead as a doornail from were it was 2010-2015. I see viewership and PPV threads not even doing a third of what they used to. 

I really want AEW to succeed to give this place a kick in the ass. WWE going down the tubes and Impact going off of Spike gutted this place.


----------



## Disputed

Its worth mentioning that while Mox buries WWE, he also does say hes very grateful to the company for his run, and I think he meant it. But anyways, sky is the limit for him, and I cant wait for Dominion right now


----------



## RapShepard

Beatles123 said:


> You don't mind the job you hate because you are just working there. You aren't trying to be respected by your peers in an industry you love only to be held down by bullshit politics. Do that for seven years and see what it does to you, It's different than working at a grocers.
> 
> 
> 
> The point of him complaining about it was that he had TOLD THEM this wasnt what he wanted to do and Vince never listened. AND THEN Vince has the unmitigated GALL to hand him a note saying "Dean needs to read promos as written". I think at that point he is WELL justified to say "Listen, you old crusty sack of shit. I'm running myself ragged trying to make YOU money by doing all this thankless tripe. You're making me hate the very thing I've loved since I was a child and I feel disgusted working for you."


Certain things while you're not too human to complain about, you might be in too good of a position for people to want to hear you complain about. The thing is everybody has work dreams and aspirations. But also everybody has lived a work nightmare. While I do enjoy the stories about why a wrestler hates a particular promotion. There's a certain point where its just a situation of "yup jobs be like that sometimes welcome to the club". Theres only so bad I can feel for you about "Well I wanted to cut promos like this, but they wanted me to cut promos like that"


----------



## kingnoth1n

*Re: Jon Moxley talks about the day his mind was made up to leave WWE on Chris Jerichos po*

Prepare for this one to get 86'd this threads already going in the AEW section


----------



## Beatles123

RapShepard said:


> Certain things while you're not too human to complain about, you might be in too good of a position for people to want to hear you complain about. The thing is everybody has work dreams and aspirations. But also everybody has lived a work nightmare. While I do enjoy the stories about why a wrestler hates a particular promotion. There's a certain point where its just a situation of "yup jobs be like that sometimes welcome to the club". Theres only so bad I can feel for you about "Well I wanted to cut promos like this, but they wanted me to cut promos like that"


I don't think it compares to an average job at all.


----------



## kingnoth1n

*Re: Jon Moxley talks about the day his mind was made up to leave WWE on Chris Jerichos po*

@mods, I assume there is an issue with AEW section threads showing up on most popular threads currently? Because this one is going to get regurgitated a lot I feel like.


----------



## RapShepard

Beatles123 said:


> I don't think it compares to an average job at all.


I agree, I think it's even harder to sympathize when the person is in the field they want to be. Worst come to worst, at least Ambrose is in the career path he wants, so he's at least halfway there. On the flip there are people that dread going to work and aren't even on the path they want. Life happens is how we all end up in shit jobs, but if I don't want to hear about it from the little man, I don't want to hear about it from the well off person at least in the industry they want.


----------



## Mr.Amazing5441

RapShepard said:


> I agree, I think it's even harder to sympathize when the person is in the field they want to be. Worst come to worst, at least Ambrose is in the career path he wants, so he's at least halfway there. On the flip there are people that dread going to work and aren't even on the path they want. Life happens is how we all end up in shit jobs, but if I don't want to hear about it from the little man, I don't want to hear about it from the well off person at least in the industry they want.


Then dont really listen to it you know. Everyone bitches about stuff. Rich or poor, its who we are.


----------



## RapShepard

Mr.Amazing5441 said:


> Then dont really listen to it you know. Everyone bitches about stuff. Rich or poor, its who we are.


why wouldn't I listen? I enjoyed the podcast, the part I'm talking about is the only part that was on my "whatever" list. If you've looked at my posts I thought the podcast was tame compared to typical shoots, I enjoyed the majority of the podcast, and the "I felt sick going to work" is the only negative I had. What's going on is everybody is so in a "YAY Ambrose and AEW" mode you'd think I hated the entire podcast.


----------



## Mr.Amazing5441

RapShepard said:


> why wouldn't I listen? I enjoyed the podcast, the part I'm talking about is the only part that was on my "whatever" list. If you've looked at my posts I thought the podcast was tame compared to typical shoots, I enjoyed the majority of the podcast, and the "I felt sick going to work" is the only negative I had. What's going on is everybody is so in a "YAY Ambrose and AEW" mode you'd think I hated the entire podcast.


I thought you just hated the part about Ambrose complaining about WWE. Which was basically the whole podcast.

This wasnt really a hard shoot. It didnt feel malicious I can agree with you in that. Its just, he was frusterated with his work and had an oppurtunity to complain about it publically and everyone wanted to hear it so he said it.

Honestly I think your scenerio of a regular dude hating his job and Ambrose situation is different. Sure he is being paid millions but if you loved an occupation. It was your passion and you spent your whole life working towards that occupation and when you finally enter it and its as bad as WWE creative. It would be very disheartening. In comparison to the grocery bagger in one of your posts, I doubt he ever wanted to actually be a grocery bagger. Its different when someone wants to be an engineer for your whole life, and being an actual engineer means nothing of what makes engineering fun for him vs a dude who was forced in it and never loved it and now in turn hates his life.


----------



## Disputed

Cody's line that "wrestling can be anything" is true, there is no one true style in pro wrestling. At his best Vince understood this, but that time feels long gone now.

Mox's passion really shines through. I'm glad to hear Tony Khan is apparently an insane superfan too. If you've listened to Omega interviews he's on occasion come off as being "over" pro wrestling despite being regarded as the best in the world, I'm not saying thats still the case but burnout happens to even top guys sometimes. No such problem with Mox, you can tell the business is basically all he ever thinks about. Hard not to like him


----------



## Nicky Midss

i love austin, but i always thought he was hard on dean back in 16. and i applaud mox for calling him out indirectly. 

great podcast thus far.


----------



## SPCDRI

"I couldn't reject everything and I never felt like sitting out or requesting my release or pulling any stunts to try to get released from the company. After so many bad scripts, my philosophy became, so long as its not outrageously bad, I'll do it, and I'll try to do it the best way you can. I remember one script, I was feuding with the Miz and they wrote me eating a Cuban sandwich. I have no clue why they wanted to eat that Cuban sandwich, but by God, I ate the damn thing, and I tried to make it the most entertaining way anybody could eat a Cuban sandwich. But there's only so much of that a guy can take, trying to make the maximum out of the minimum, so I had to leave." 

That seemed to sum up all the promo feuding. They never really got the character and wanted him to be more wacky and comedic and babyface. I think they saw Moxley as being comedy Mankind of the trio. 

Moxley: WWE always had me doing these goofy things in script, like a clown, things a real circus clown would do. They had this one script, they wanted me drive a car backwards, another script they had me on a unicycle. A unicycle, can you believe that shit? I'd do most everything they scripted for me, unless it was so bad, I had to put my foot down.
Jericho: So they always wanted you to be a wacky babyface, then? They never really got it?

That seems to sum it up pretty well, too. Maybe he was just a poor fit for the era.


----------



## ThunderJet88

TheLooseCanon said:


> He produced that promo video himself, about $8,000.


What promo video?


----------



## TheLooseCanon

ThunderJet88 said:


> What promo video?


That Moxley reveal video that night his contract expired, where he's breaking out of jail, being chased by dogs. On his Twitter.


----------



## LucasXXII

"Pooper-scooper" :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## SPCDRI

Mox Girl said:


> He's such a brother though, when he told that story about the second Roman leukemia line they wanted to him to say. The line that made it to TV was pretty gross, I remember saying how much I hated it when it first happened, so I really do wonder just what the fuck they wanted him to say the second time?! That makes me feel sick, that they wanted a guy to talk about his best friend's cancer. That never should have been part of the Dean vs Seth angle IMO.


It must have been really insane, because Moxley said that the line could have caused sponsors to drop out and it would have jeopardized their relationship with a cancer-related charity, Susan G. Komen. Vince wanted a guy to repeatedly shoot on people's cancer experiences when WWE does business with a cancer charity, like what the Hell is passing through his mind sometimes? Its not even good business savvy! 

"Alleged genius" indeed!


----------



## ThunderJet88

TheLooseCanon said:


> That Moxley reveal video that night his contract expired, where he's breaking out of jail, being chased by dogs. On his Twitter.


It hit me just now before I even read your reply lol. Thanks for answering nonetheless


----------



## ScottyDawgg

*Re: Jon Moxley talks about the day his mind was made up to leave WWE on Chris Jerichos po*

Good for him. I have a lot of respect for wrestlers that leave the WWE, they want there to be good wrestling and they want to keep their pride.


----------



## Beatles123

RapShepard said:


> I agree, I think it's even harder to sympathize when the person is in the field they want to be. Worst come to worst, at least Ambrose is in the career path he wants, so he's at least halfway there. On the flip there are people that dread going to work and aren't even on the path they want. Life happens is how we all end up in shit jobs, but if I don't want to hear about it from the little man, I don't want to hear about it from the well off person at least in the industry they want.


You inverted my meaning. he has MORE of a right to bitch than anyone bagging fucking groceries.


----------



## Mr.Amazing5441

looper007 said:


> Two top guys have now come out and said to the public that if you want a place to be creative and been fulfilled that at this time maybe WWE isn't the place to be.
> 
> But you still see talent sign weekly to WWE, I'm sure plenty of the talent aren't feeling the same way as Punk and Moxley. Some are just happy to pick up the payday and do what they are told, and been creative isn't everything. Some probably think at least a year or two in WWE even as a jobber, will at least bump up their payday on the indies. Some dream is to be in WWE and everything else is not worth it. I'm sure their is more then just Sasha Bank's and The Revival not liking it either, but they are keeping it to themselves.
> 
> You will see more and more come out of the woodwork as the year goes on.


I think the people who do sign with WWE have different priorities as a guy like Jon Moxley who all he really wanted was not to be THE top star but the ability to express his creativity in the form of wrestling. While imo a guy like Seth probably doesn't care about the promos or stories but more about performing in front of 1,000 to 15,000 every night while sometimes even more and being an inspiration to kids or fans who genuinely like WWE. You cant really have that experience anywhere else except for the WWE. Some just have it as a quick, make as much money as I can and get out and secure financial resources which is also a good enough reason. Ambrose may have hated WWE, but he knows without them, he wouldnt have a home, a car, his mothers home, or some star power he could use in AEW.


----------



## Death Rider

Hephaesteus said:


> We already knew all of this. Dean didn't tell us anything he aint already know.
> 
> 
> 
> He also said he didn't look at the money when signing with the AEW which is an absolutely idiotic thing to do with an unproven company. As for the pay, issue to take up with them there. I still don't understand how airing his grievances like this benefits him.
> 
> 
> 
> People have to eat shit when they come back. Dean likely wouldn't have had to do that. Not anymore.
> 
> Besides who knows what happens in the future. Hope it was worth it.


Did you not listen to what he said? He doesn't give a fuck and never wants to go back. Ambrose does not care about burning bridges and when you hate an old job that much trust me you get the petrol can and light it up. 



RapShepard said:


> Nah I really dreaded my sales job. Shit would make me nervous to just go in, dreaded getting a call. I wasn't even as professional as Moxley to give them a heads up, I Just left.
> 
> But shit like that is one of the parts of adult life that at least in my up bringing you suck up and keep to yourself. Im not saying his feelings arent valid. Its simply hes not special in this regard of "oh I hated pulling up to work". Plenty of folk hate work, tough titty if an entertainer doesn't enhoy their job.


Well that mentality is stupid and leads to people being unhappy. If you hate your job that much you need to leave. I used to be in a job like that and I now work a very different job which whilst not perfect I enjoy. And yeah unlike Moxley I wasn't as professional. Only thing that kept me from just walking was £1,000 in holiday pay.


----------



## Heath V

*Re: Jon Moxley talks about the day his mind was made up to leave WWE on Chris Jerichos po*

Reading the text was a lot better than listening to this guy. He sounds like someone you'd run into on the Pacific beach boardwalk and his non stop chewing gum is just disgusting and distracting. Between that and Jerichos not stop breathing into the mic and being a shill for Omaha steaks, I'm out...


----------



## MontyCora

*Re: Jon Moxley talks about the day his mind was made up to leave WWE on Chris Jerichos po*



Heath V said:


> Reading the text was a lot better than listening to this guy. He sounds like someone you'd run into on the Pacific beach boardwalk and his non stop chewing gum is just disgusting and distracting. Between that and Jerichos not stop breathing into the mic and being a shill for Omaha steaks, I'm out...


Good lord you must be fun at parties.


----------



## Heath V

*Re: Jon Moxley talks about the day his mind was made up to leave WWE on Chris Jerichos po*



MontyCora said:


> Good lord you must be fun at parties.


I am, and if you like guys chewing gum on the mic for 98 minutes more power to you. You wouldn't hear Conrad or Bruce doing that shit and at least when Prichard shills it's funny as shit. Ambrose is many things, the second coming he is not..

P.S. still hoping he actually learns how to throw a working punch in AEW.


----------



## reyfan

*Re: Jon Moxley talks about the day his mind was made up to leave WWE on Chris Jerichos po*



Heath V said:


> I am, and if you like guys chewing gum on the mic for 98 minutes more power to you. You wouldn't hear Conrad or Bruce doing that shit and at least when Prichard shills it's funny as shit. Ambrose is many things, the second coming he is not..
> 
> P.S. still hoping he actually learns how to throw a working punch in AEW.


I liked where Dean/Mox kept snoring snot back into his nose mid sentence, 10 out of 10.


----------



## Heath V

*Re: Jon Moxley talks about the day his mind was made up to leave WWE on Chris Jerichos po*



reyfan said:


> I liked where Dean/Mox kept snoring snot back into his nose mid sentence, 10 out of 10.


Right? This is some common sense shit, Jericho should have paused and called him out on it off air and resumed the pod cast. I was listening to it in my car and getting disgusted. 

I also go grossed out during the Big Boss Man episode on Something To Wrestle With. The whole time it sounded like Bruce was eating, even Conrad called him out on it. Turns out they got new sensitive mic's and Bruce was just shuffling papers, still sounded gross nonetheless.


----------



## GameBredAPBT

Ambrose is a clown. He'd be jobbing out exclusively if this were the 70s/80s. Cena was right, he WAS lazy, looked like he'd never picked up a weight in his life until last year. He wanted to be booked as some bada$$ killer, and yet, he looked like a dishwasher & has some of the most sluggish, effeminate offense I've ever seen from an alleged "main eventer". 

Vince was absolutely right to book him as a jacka$$, cause that's what he looked like. He got in shape over the past year, I'll give him that, but it was too little too late. Good luck to him going forward, he at least looks decent now, but this podcast was pretty zzzzzz. Just his narcissistic, one-sided view of things. Guy doesn't seem too bright.

The skid marks are acting like his "return" the other night was watched worldwide. Trust that it wasn't. It was seen by 30/40 something middle aged murican marks & that was it. Way more people watched Brock grab that briefcase, and that's just a fact. And it'll always be a fact.


----------



## Death Rider

GameBredAPBT said:


> Ambrose is a clown. He'd be jobbing out exclusively if this were the 70s/80s. Cena was right, he WAS lazy, looked like he'd never picked up a weight in his life until last year. He wanted to be booked as some bada$$ killer, and yet, he looked like a dishwasher & has some of the most sluggish, effeminate offense I've ever seen from an alleged "main eventer".
> 
> Vince was absolutely right to book him as a jacka$$, cause that's what he looked like. He got in shape over the past year, I'll give him that, but it was too little too late. Good luck to him going forward, he at least looks decent now, but this podcast was pretty zzzzzz. Just his narcissistic, one-sided view of things. Guy doesn't seem too bright.
> 
> The skid marks are acting like his "return" the other night was watched worldwide. Trust that it wasn't. It was seen by 30/40 something middle aged murican marks & that was it. Way more people watched Brock grab that briefcase, and that's just a fact. And it'll always be a fact.


How was he lazy when he is constantly working to improve the promos he had to do? That is literally the opposite of lazy. Lazy would be sitting there and just doing the promos he was given. Also there was a time when he was working more matches then anyone on the roster so this Ambrose is lazy narrative makes no sense. I don't think you know what that word means


----------



## SPCDRI

I think Moxley said something like, "Their corporate structure makes no sense and their creative process is shit that doesn't work." I'd say that's correct and one hell of a burned bridge. 

I think this carries a lot more weight than the CM Punk one since its said so quickly after the departure, by somebody who still wants to be a professional wrestler and is one now. This is the biggest podcast Jericho has done already by a considerable margin. People thought Moxley was gone on good terms and not going to work with AEW and wouldn't denounce WWE and that's a big NOPE on all three.


----------



## Beatles123

*Re: Jon Moxley talks about the day his mind was made up to leave WWE on Chris Jerichos po*



Heath V said:


> I am, and if you like guys chewing gum on the mic for 98 minutes more power to you. You wouldn't hear Conrad or Bruce doing that shit and at least when Prichard shills it's funny as shit. Ambrose is many things, the second coming he is not..
> 
> P.S. still hoping he actually learns how to throw a working punch in AEW.


Do you have any real feedback to give?


----------



## Heath V

*Re: Jon Moxley talks about the day his mind was made up to leave WWE on Chris Jerichos po*



Beatles123 said:


> Do you have any real feedback to give?


I gave plenty and went into great detail, feel free to use some reading comprehension.


----------



## Beatles123

*Re: Jon Moxley talks about the day his mind was made up to leave WWE on Chris Jerichos po*



Heath V said:


> I gave plenty and went into great detail, feel free to use some reading comprehension.


What the hell? Calm down. :taker You talked more about the format than what was said.


----------



## Heath V

*Re: Jon Moxley talks about the day his mind was made up to leave WWE on Chris Jerichos po*



Beatles123 said:


> What the hell? Calm down. :taker


I'm in my game room calm as can be, I simply responded to your quote. Good day.


----------



## Beatles123

*Re: Jon Moxley talks about the day his mind was made up to leave WWE on Chris Jerichos po*



Heath V said:


> I'm in my game room calm as can be, I simply responded to your quote. Good day.


Stop. You were being passive aggressive as hell and you know it.


----------



## GameBredAPBT

ONE STEP CLOSER TO KOFI MANIA said:


> How was he lazy when he is constantly working to improve the promos he had to do? That is literally the opposite of lazy. Lazy would be sitting there and just doing the promos he was given. Also there was a time when he was working more matches then anyone on the roster so this Ambrose is lazy narrative makes no sense. I don't think you know what that word means


He looked like complete crap for 90% of his Fed run. He looked like a dishwasher. Again, I give him credit for starting to take building his body up more seriously, because he looks like a different person today, but it was impossible to take him seriously as a major player when he was built like a drug-addled lesbian. The business is more than just promos. He wanted to be booked like a killer, and not a goof, but he looked like a goof, so they booked him like a goof.

I remember watching him during his feud vs AJ Styles with a friend who hadn't seen the product in years, and she was like: "is this 'let a fan rassle' day, or what is this? This guy looks like a barback". 

That about sum it up for me. Too little too late. WWF audience had already made up their mind about him.


----------



## Heath V

*Re: Jon Moxley talks about the day his mind was made up to leave WWE on Chris Jerichos po*



Beatles123 said:


> Stop. You were being passive aggressive as hell and you know it.


No, I provided plenty of feedback. I even went above and beyond. Fact is, all of this is just pure speculation to pass time. None of us are in WWE therefore none of us truly know the truth. Furthernore there is certain etiquette one has to have behind a microphone, this is common sense and Jericho should have known better. I want to hear your story, but not while you're chewing gum and sucking back snot.


----------



## Hephaesteus

ONE STEP CLOSER TO KOFI MANIA said:


> Did you not listen to what he said? He doesn't give a fuck and never wants to go back. Ambrose does not care about burning bridges and when you hate an old job that much trust me you get the petrol can and light it up.



As I said before, it's a stupid thing to do. Especially when you're doing it while leaving the biggest game in town. He left on good terms, should've stayed there. Just because somethings true in the present doesn't necessarily mean it will be so in the future.


----------



## Beatles123

GameBredAPBT said:


> He wanted to be booked like a killer, and not a goof, but he looked like a goof, so they booked him like a goof.


Which is wrong on their part. Mox is not a goof character. He's a psycho ala Raven/Pillman. Plenty of better ways to book him.

Honestly thats a pretty weak statement.


----------



## Death Rider

Hephaesteus said:


> ONE STEP CLOSER TO KOFI MANIA said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you not listen to what he said? He doesn't give a fuck and never wants to go back. Ambrose does not care about burning bridges and when you hate an old job that much trust me you get the petrol can and light it up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I said before, it's a stupid thing to do. Especially when you're doing it while leaving the biggest game in town. He left on good terms, should've stayed there. Just because somethings true in the present doesn't necessarily mean it will be so in the future.
Click to expand...

Why would he want to go back ever whilst Vince is there? He clearly does not care about the money so why should he worry about burning bridges? If he has no intention of going back whilst Vince is there then there was nothing stupid about what he did at all


----------



## Beatles123

*Re: Jon Moxley talks about the day his mind was made up to leave WWE on Chris Jerichos po*



Heath V said:


> No, I provided plenty of feedback. I even went above and beyond. Fact is, all of this is just pure speculation to pass time. None of us are in WWE therefore none of us truly know the truth. Furthernore there is certain etiquette one has to have behind a microphone, this is common sense and Jericho should have known better. I want to hear your story, but not while you're chewing gum and sucking back snot.


So he was lying/his experiences were the exception and not the rule?...shaky theory at best IMO.


----------



## GameBredAPBT

Beatles123 said:


> Which is wrong on their part. Mox is not a goof character. He's a psycho ala Raven/Pillman. Plenty of better ways to book him.
> 
> Honestly thats a pretty weak statement.


Dude. C'mon. Brian Pillman was perhaps the greatest natural wrasslin talent EVER. He was on his way to being the next Shawn Michaels before the car wreck.

Raven actually lifted weights! Also, his gimmick was so picture perfect for those years. And he was a LOT more talented than freaking Dean Ambrose.

He can't be compared to those two. Pillman was a freaky athlete & had blistering, brutal offense, and his intensity was second to none.. Raven was no slouch on offense & was a thousand times a better talker, and had an incredible look.

Please.


----------



## SPCDRI

"I didn't look at the contract, didn't care what the terms were, didn't care what the money was. If it was a Brock Lesnar deal, a better than Brock deal, 10 million dollar contract, I wouldn't have signed it. I knew I was so done with the company, I didn't even want to look at the contract and be tempted to sign it. The experience was making me physically ill, and I don't mean to downplay the seriousness of clinical depression, but I was looking up symptoms and criteria for depression online to see if I fit the bill."

If he means that at all, if he even means a portion of that, there's no bridge to burn because there never was a bridge, period.


----------



## Heath V

*Re: Jon Moxley talks about the day his mind was made up to leave WWE on Chris Jerichos po*



Beatles123 said:


> So he was lying/his experiences were the exception and not the rule?...shaky theory at best IMO.


No you're putting words in my mouth, I dont believe that one bit. We all know how micromanaging WWE is, let's not be silly. I wanted to hear his story just like I wanted to hear CM Punks story. Difference was I could actually sit through Punks as he provided a lot more Professionalism on the mic despite burying the company.


----------



## Beatles123

GameBredAPBT said:


> Dude. C'mon. Brian Pillman was perhaps the greatest natural wrasslin talent EVER. He was on his way to being the next Shawn Michaels before the car wreck.
> 
> Raven actually lifted weights! Also, his gimmick was so picture perfect for those years. And he was a LOT more talented than freaking Dean Ambrose.
> 
> He can't be compared to those two. Pillman was a freaky athlete & had blistering, brutal offense, and his intensity was second to none.. Raven was no slouch on offense & was a thousand times a better talker, and had an incredible look.
> 
> Please.


His character and match style were absolutely reminiscent of Raven and Pillman during his loose canon run before WWE moved him into the sheild. His FCW Feuds are perfect examples of this. After that, as with ALL wwe performers, his ring work and everything else became a flanderized parody.


----------



## Beatles123

*Re: Jon Moxley talks about the day his mind was made up to leave WWE on Chris Jerichos po*



Heath V said:


> No you're putting words in my mouth, I dont believe that one bit. We all know how micromanaging WWE is, let's not be silly. I wanted to hear his story just like I wanted to hear CM Punks story. Difference was I could actually sit through Punks as he provided a lot more Professionalism on the mic despite burying the company.


So your grievances are purely presentation based? I dunno man, I barely heard any noise as loud as you claim :Hutz I though Jericho handled it well and let Jon talk, and I found him very honest.


----------



## Heath V

*Re: Jon Moxley talks about the day his mind was made up to leave WWE on Chris Jerichos po*



Beatles123 said:


> So your grievances are purely presentation based? I dunno man, I barely heard any noise as loud as you claim :Hutz I though Jericho handled it well and let Jon talk, and I found him very honest.


I'm not the biggest fan but he came across honest and genuine to me as well. Yes my biggest gripe was with the presentation. I had it on bluetooth hooked up to my car stereo and certain parts just sounded gross. But again, perhaps I'm just sensitive to this kind of stuff because I was grossed out when Bruce was shuffling papers as well. 

When Conrad called him out and cussed him out I cracked up, I felt that he was saying what we were all thinking.


----------



## Genking48

*Re: Jon Moxley talks about the day his mind was made up to leave WWE on Chris Jerichos po*

Honest and good interview. Some good stuff.



Heath V said:


> I'm not the biggest fan but he came across honest and genuine to me as well. Yes my biggest gripe was with the presentation. I had it on bluetooth hooked up to my car stereo and certain parts just sounded gross. But again, perhaps I'm just sensitive to this kind of stuff because I was grossed out when Bruce was shuffling papers as well.
> 
> When Conrad called him out and cussed him out I cracked up, I felt that he was saying what we were all thinking.


Misophonia maybe?


----------



## Heath V

*Re: Jon Moxley talks about the day his mind was made up to leave WWE on Chris Jerichos po*



Genking48 said:


> Honest and good interview. Some good stuff.
> 
> 
> Misophonia maybe?


Fewer than 200,000 cases per year. Maybe I'm one of the lucky few?


----------



## Randy Lahey

Good podcast. Only thing annoying was Jericho getting in his commercials. 

The main point Mox made was that AEW is a wrestling company ran by wrestlers, not Hollywood writers or senior citizens that have no idea what relates to this generation. I can’t wait to see their TNT show. Back when wrestling was hot, the writers weren’t telling Rock or Stone Cold what to say. So why now? Jericho said WWE is entirely overly produced and he’s right. 

Mox being booked as a zany funny character by Vince was stupid. I can def see his Die Hard character Moxley was pushing for more than hokey comic relief. 

The thing AEW has going for it is they are bringing in guys to be themselves. That will resonate with the audience. The kid MJF is going to be the biggest thing in wrestling in forever.


----------



## Beatles123

*Re: Jon Moxley talks about the day his mind was made up to leave WWE on Chris Jerichos po*



Heath V said:


> I'm not the biggest fan but he came across honest and genuine to me as well. Yes my biggest gripe was with the presentation. I had it on bluetooth hooked up to my car stereo and certain parts just sounded gross. But again, perhaps I'm just sensitive to this kind of stuff because I was grossed out when Bruce was shuffling papers as well.
> 
> When Conrad called him out and cussed him out I cracked up, I felt that he was saying what we were all thinking.


Fair enough. :cudi Though I must say I had headphones on and I didn't seem to notice anything. :shrug


Now let me tell you what I did notice: How easy it is to have the best steak you ever tasted with Omaha Steaks! :y2j


----------



## GameBredAPBT

Beatles123 said:


> His character and match style were absolutely reminiscent of Raven and Pillman during his loose canon run before WWE moved him into the sheild. His FCW Feuds are perfect examples of this. After that, as with ALL wwe performers, his ring work and everything else became a flanderized parody.


Not reminiscent, more like a dimestore version of those two.


----------



## Genking48

*Re: Jon Moxley talks about the day his mind was made up to leave WWE on Chris Jerichos po*



Beatles123 said:


> Now let me tell you what I did notice: How easy it is to have the best steak you ever tasted with Omaha Steaks! :y2j


Did do the segway. JR was at DoN -> JR's bbq sauce -> How about those Omaha Steaks?


----------



## Beatles123

GameBredAPBT said:


> Not reminiscent, more like a dimestore version of those two.


:taker I dunno what feud you were watching then. I found it great.


----------



## Heath V

*Re: Jon Moxley talks about the day his mind was made up to leave WWE on Chris Jerichos po*



Beatles123 said:


> Fair enough. :cudi Though I must say I had headphones on and I didn't seem to notice anything. :shrug
> 
> 
> Now let me tell you what I did notice: How easy it is to have the best steak you ever tasted with Omaha Steaks! :y2j


Lol at the Omaha steaks comment. I like Something To Wrestle With because I'd much rather hear Dusty, Cornette or Macho Man shill products. Jericho comes across (to me) as so disingenuous and smug. Like the annoying frat jock that never quite grew up. I work with a guy that looks and acts like Jericho and hes such a self centered prick.


----------



## Beatles123

*Re: Jon Moxley talks about the day his mind was made up to leave WWE on Chris Jerichos po*



Heath V said:


> Lol at the Omaha steaks comment. I like Something To Wrestle With because I'd much rather hear Dusty, Cornette or Macho Man shill products. Jericho comes across (to me) as so disingenuous and smug. Like the annoying frat jock that never quite grew up. I work with a guy that looks and acts like Jericho and hes such a self centered prick.


Self centered? Nah man. He's paying his bills and puts over actual good shit like DDP Yoga pretty hard.


----------



## Mox Girl

There a lot of people in this thread still referring to him as Dean Ambrose, lol. He's Moxley now, stop calling him Ambrose :lol


----------



## Beatles123

Mox Girl said:


> There a lot of people in this thread still referring to him as Dean Ambrose, lol. He's Moxley now, stop calling him Ambrose :lol


Who's Dean Ambrose? :ambrose


----------



## Death Rider

Mox Girl said:


> There a lot of people in this thread still referring to him as Dean Ambrose, lol. He's Moxley now, stop calling him Ambrose <img src="http://i.imgur.com/EGDmCdR.gif?1?6573" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" />


Let the past die and the rebirth begin :mark:


----------



## SMW

awesome podcast!! well done well done!!!


----------



## Heath V

*Re: Jon Moxley talks about the day his mind was made up to leave WWE on Chris Jerichos po*



Beatles123 said:


> Self centered? Nah man. He's paying his bills and puts over actual good shit like DDP Yoga pretty hard.


I dont doubt for one minute that he's not paying the bills and DDP Yoga is some top notch stuff. I know that Bruce and Conrad were making a small fortune shilling their various products. Hell even I used some of their products they were pitching like dollar shave club and my wife used Sherris Berries I think. I'm still pissed that DDP is not going to reprise his roll in Rob Zombie's Three from Hell. I loved Dallas in The Devils Rejects, off topic I know but when you mentioned DDP I thought of that movie.


----------



## Ace




----------



## Mox Girl

Ace said:


>


Those 5 meetings were him as Dean Ambrose so I left it in :lol

But I call him Mox otherwise, lol.


----------



## Rated-R-Peepz

Great podcast. Jon brought to light things that most of us already knew about Vince and the WWE, but it was still awesome to hear. That place is such a shithole. I'm glad he's moved on and will actually be able to be creative again.


----------



## Hephaesteus

ONE STEP CLOSER TO KOFI MANIA said:


> Why would he want to go back ever whilst Vince is there? He clearly does not care about the money so why should he worry about burning bridges? If he has no intention of going back whilst Vince is there then there was nothing stupid about what he did at all


You keep talking present. Presently sure he don't give a fuck, fuck that bridge. 5-10 years down the line who's to say the situation don't change? Who's to say things don't happen beyond his control? We all know how petty Vince gets.


----------



## Dulce Libre

Ace said:


>


This forum has a dark mode? How do I access that? It looks like "good shit" lol.


----------



## Beatles123

Dulce Libre said:


> This forum has a dark mode? How do I access that? It looks like "good shit" lol.


Yeah! I want it! :flair 

IT'S SO ME! :delrio


----------



## Ace

Dulce Libre said:


> This forum has a dark mode? How do I access that? It looks like "good shit" lol.


 Bottom of the page



Beatles123 said:


> Yeah! I want it! :flair
> 
> IT'S SO ME! :delrio


----------



## Death Rider

Hephaesteus said:


> ONE STEP CLOSER TO KOFI MANIA said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would he want to go back ever whilst Vince is there? He clearly does not care about the money so why should he worry about burning bridges? If he has no intention of going back whilst Vince is there then there was nothing stupid about what he did at all
> 
> 
> 
> You keep talking present. Presently sure he don't give a fuck, fuck that bridge. 5-10 years down the line who's to say the situation don't change? Who's to say things don't happen beyond his control? We all know how petty Vince gets.
Click to expand...

If you hate a job that much I highly doubt you are going to go back in 5/10 years and from how Dean seems to be, if that was his only option wrestling wise and Vince is still there he is hitting the road


----------



## V-Trigger

"IT'S SUCH GOOD SHIT" needs to be a t-shirt.


----------



## Freelancer

He pretty much confirmed everything we already knew about "old man" Vince. He's the problem.

PS, I didn't know about the dark mode either. Looks great! just switched.


----------



## Beatles123

V-Trigger said:


> "IT'S SUCH GOOD SHIT" needs to be a t-shirt.


Should be a Mox T-shirt :lenny


----------



## DoolieNoted

Renee being still in WWE has to be a conflict of interest if MOX is taking a big role in AEW.

I can picture Vince planning to interrogate her about their plans in some dark basement somewhere.


----------



## Telos

Hephaesteus said:


> You keep talking present. Presently sure he don't give a fuck, fuck that bridge. 5-10 years down the line who's to say the situation don't change? Who's to say things don't happen beyond his control? We all know how petty Vince gets.


Bret Hart spit on and punched Vince McMahon in the face on his way out. There are no nevers with Vince if he feels it’s best for business. Also keep in mind the only way to do another Shield reunion years down the line is to bring back Dean Ambrose. Whatever was said today won’t matter 5-10 years down the line if both Vince and Jon wants to make the reunion happen. So I don’t think he has to be too concerned about burning any bridges.


----------



## deathvalleydriver2

You could see it on his face he looked downright miserable being in the WWE


----------



## SPCDRI

DulyNoted said:


> Renee being still in WWE has to be a conflict of interest if MOX is taking a big role in AEW.
> 
> I can picture Vince planning to interrogate her about their plans in some dark basement somewhere.


We all thought the relationship with saudi arabia was only about :vince$


----------



## bradatar

Ace said:


> Bottom of the page


This is a game changer thank you!


----------



## BarrettBarrage

bradatar said:


> This is a game changer thank you!


My eyes will no longer be seared in their sockets when I read this forum at night.

Seared... like one of those OMAHA STEAKS


----------



## Nicky Midss

GameBredAPBT said:


> He looked like complete crap for 90% of his Fed run. He looked like a dishwasher. Again, I give him credit for starting to take building his body up more seriously, because he looks like a different person today, but it was impossible to take him seriously as a major player when he was built like a drug-addled lesbian. The business is more than just promos. He wanted to be booked like a killer, and not a goof, but he looked like a goof, so they booked him like a goof.
> 
> I remember watching him during his feud vs AJ Styles with a friend who hadn't seen the product in years, and she was like: "is this 'let a fan rassle' day, or what is this? This guy looks like a barback".
> 
> That about sum it up for me. Too little too late. WWF audience had already made up their mind about him.


He was the most over guy in the shield. Speaks volumes about the other two nerds left behind in the E.


----------



## Erik.

Telos said:


> Bret Hart spit on and punched Vince McMahon in the face on his way out. There are no nevers with Vince if he feels it’s best for business. Also keep in mind the only way to do another Shield reunion years down the line is to bring back Dean Ambrose. Whatever was said today won’t matter 5-10 years down the line if both Vince and Jon wants to make the reunion happen. So I don’t think he has to be too concerned about burning any bridges.


Vince will be dead in 10 years.


----------



## Schwartzxz

Telos said:


> Whatever was said today won’t matter 5-10 years down the line if both Vince and Jon wants to make the reunion happen.


yeah it wont matter because Vince might be gone in 5-10 years


----------



## deepelemblues

If you believe him, he confirmed everything about Vince's stubborn and totally out of touch hand in the creative process and we've already had so many other people in the business saying the exact same things that there's no reason to doubt him


----------



## oleanderson89

HHH ain't saving shit. His very agenda with NXT is to kill any competition from a large scale promotion with indy talents to make WWE a complete monopoly. Great for WWE and the McMahons but not the sort of plan that I would like to come together.

I am happy AEW is around and has a chance of becoming really big. I feel there is room for ROH and Impact to become bigger than what they are now. We don't need more product from one company especially when their content is pure garbage. We really need variety and that's what is best for the consumer.


----------



## Telos

Erik. said:


> Vince will be dead in 10 years.





Schwartzxz said:


> yeah it wont matter because Vince might be gone in 5-10 years


Vince is a vampire and will outlive all of us.

(In all seriousness you’re probably right)


----------



## Erik.

One take away from this podcast is that competition WON'T change WWE. 

They have issues and have had issues for years and haven't bothered change. Vince is the problem, as well know and I don't think competition will solve that at all.


----------



## ellthom

Telos said:


> Vince is a vampire and will outlive all of us.
> 
> (In all seriousness you’re probably right)


He'll live on through preserving his head in a jar like those heads of celebrities from Futurama


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

Forgot to include in my long post on this thread last night about Jon saying that Brock is ruining WWE. :lmao

MOX speaking truth.

:bjpenn


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

GameBredAPBT said:


> Dude. C'mon. Brian Pillman was perhaps the greatest natural wrasslin talent EVER. He was on his way to being the next Shawn Michaels before the car wreck.
> 
> Raven actually lifted weights! Also, his gimmick was so picture perfect for those years. And he was a LOT more talented than freaking Dean Ambrose.
> 
> He can't be compared to those two. Pillman was a freaky athlete & had blistering, brutal offense, and his intensity was second to none.. Raven was no slouch on offense & was a thousand times a better talker, and had an incredible look.
> 
> Please.


Dean Ambrose 2014
https://www.ibtimes.com/5-best-wwe-...seth-rollins-john-cena-highlight-list-1760396

Dean Ambrose 2013
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ViV8ZNJvkig/hqdefault.jpg

Dean was a big dude in legit shape until 2015. By then he had already had a blown singles run and was turned into a goofy comedy guy. If they had taken advantage of him when he was hot and not turned him into a joke who knows if he would've slimmed down.


----------



## roblewis87

His name is Jonathon god dammit.


----------



## roblewis87

Also Moxley is showing the WWE talent how to behave and leave like a professional. No extended contracts, no loss of royalties, good man.


----------



## Mister Abigail




----------



## reyfan

Undertaker23RKO said:


> Dean Ambrose 2014
> https://www.ibtimes.com/5-best-wwe-...seth-rollins-john-cena-highlight-list-1760396
> 
> Dean Ambrose 2013
> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ViV8ZNJvkig/hqdefault.jpg
> 
> Dean was a big dude in legit shape until 2015. By then he had already had a blown singles run and was turned into a goofy comedy guy. If they had taken advantage of him when he was hot and not turned him into a joke who knows if he would've slimmed down.


Hopefully he changes his mannerisms, he still looked goofy as hell at DoN and that finisher has to go imo.


----------



## Zappers

DammitC said:


> Wait, are you feeling threatened by AEW being a better alternative for wrestling fans? :lol
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't even bother listening to what Jon Moxley and Chris Jericho said in this podcast since they buried the hell out of Vince along with his terrible creative process


Why would anyone be threatened about an alternative? They aren't a threat in the slightest bit. Not even competition with WWE. 

It you bothered to listen to the podcast, they said it themselves. :jericho2


----------



## Scissor Me Daddy-O!!

It's rough listening to this podcast. All the comedy stuff sounds funny to me; something I'd do if I was a wrestler. I'm sure there are plenty more people on the roster who'd like to do it, too. This really shined a light on WWE not knowing their talent. Dean wanted to be rough and tough; give him that. Plenty of others would take tongs to wiener and say pooper scooper. Vince can have his show his way, but he needs to be diverse. He only plays with a top few talents, and building a show around a few people doesn't help when you have 100+ on your roster.


----------



## Zappers

Beatles123 said:


> Wrong. Dean got to do NONE of what he wanted.


Wrong. Dean got to put his spin on most of his promos. He said it himself. Not all obviously but most of them. What do you think was the reason he said he was in Vinces and other meetings almost every week. He was had a problem with everything they wrote for him. Regardless, the entire thing is one persons opinion. One person's account on what was given specifically to him and his character alone. Dean had a problem with what he thought in his mind, in his opinion was not good writing. All the stuff he did on TV, the fans mostly enjoyed. It's impossible to please every single fan. 

Now go ask Sami or Owens for one small example. Go ask them, hey do you think creative sucks? Go ask New Day members? Do you think creative sucks? Owens is killing it out there. Go ask Becky, go ask Charlotte, do they think creative sucks? Go ask Miz, creative suck? Only people that think things suck are the ones that have a problem on the way they are pushed. They want to be in the title hunt 24/7. Well they don't have room for everyone. There's so much of what you can do with a lunatic persona. Maybe it got stale. maybe it's a fact that Moxley has no range to be anything else. Look at his AEW debut. He's the same guy .. AGAIN. When he first started in WWE, he was mostly silent, laid back, just kicking butt with the shield. But then he just unleashed the Moxley character from his indy days, probably his idea no doubt. Moxley put himself in a box, the persona, the merch.... there's so much you can do with that character. Very hard to go back.


----------



## Telos

reyfan said:


> Hopefully he changes his mannerisms, he still looked goofy as hell at DoN and that finisher has to go imo.


To be fair Moxley was always a goofball even in his pre-WWE days. He’s probably still going to be that guy but with even more of an edge to him. As for the finisher I respectfully disagree, I think it works great as an impact move. The setup to it is similar to the Stone Cold Stunner, he can hit it quickly and put anyone’s lights out in an instant. Would love to see him bring back the Hook and Ladder as a signature move at least.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Erik. said:


> One take away from this podcast is that competition WON'T change WWE.
> 
> They have issues and have had issues for years and haven't bothered change. Vince is the problem, as well know and I don't think competition will solve that at all.


This is exactly why I gave up on their shitty product. It was abundantly obvious long ago that the reason why their product was utter garbage, and why literally all of their "creative" ideas and angles were pure cancer, wasn't due to lack of effort, but lack of talent in terms of booking an entertaining show. Their creative process couldn't come up with anything enjoyable if their life depended on it.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Telos said:


> To be fair Moxley was always a goofball even in his pre-WWE days. He’s probably still going to be that guy but with even more of an edge to him.


This is a good point. The guy has a ton of range and can pull off a ton of different things successfully, so it would be a waste not to use these talents. However, there's a time for comedy, and a time for being serious. One of WWE's issues is that they tend to run things into the ground. They have no idea how to write complex characters.

The content of that promo he did after DON (which was written by himself) was 100x times better than any of the trash WWE gave him to work with.


----------



## Erik.

AEWMoxley said:


> This is exactly why I gave up on their shitty product. It was abundantly obvious long ago that the reason why their product was utter garbage, and why literally all of their "creative" ideas and angles were pure cancer, wasn't due to lack of effort, but lack of talent in terms of booking an entertaining show. Their creative process couldn't come up with anything enjoyable if their life depended on it.


To be fair, beyond about 5 years of it's entire existence, WWE has never really been great. Sure, it's been marketed and promoted VERY VERY well and that is what Vince is great at, the business side.

In terms of wrestling? It's NEVER been number one. Ever. In terms of creativity? I'd argue it's barely ever been number one besides one or two years during the Attitude Era. 

It's a number one company through business, not creativity. They are STILL living off their heights of the late 90s/early 00s. But the problem is, it's a different era, a different time.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Erik. said:


> To be fair, beyond about 5 years of it's entire existence, WWE has never really been great. Sure, it's been marketed and promoted VERY VERY well and that is what Vince is great at, the business side.
> 
> In terms of wrestling? It's NEVER been number one. Ever. In terms of creativity? I'd argue it's barely ever been number one besides one or two years during the Attitude Era.
> 
> It's a number one company through business, not creativity. They are STILL living off their heights of the late 90s/early 00s. But the problem is, it's a different era, a different time.


And the creativity of Attitude Era was mostly on the main event guys taking matters into their own hands. Vince would often be furious at them backstage, until the ratings came out the following day. He had no choice but to care about ratings back then.

But Vince nearly ruined it all before the AE ever began, by wanting to make Austin a comedy jobber named "Fang McFrost." Never forget.


----------



## Erik.

AEWMoxley said:


> And the creativity of Attitude Era was mostly on the main event guys taking matters into their own hands. Vince would often be furious at them backstage, until the ratings came out the following day. He had no choice but to care about ratings back then.
> 
> But Vince nearly ruined it all before the AE ever began, by wanting to make Austin a comedy jobber named "Fang McFrost." Never forget.


The proof is there

In 1996, when they were struggling, they literally thought Stone Cold was better as someone who NEEDED a mouth piece and were then going to call him Chilly McFreeze or Fang McFrost.

Vince has always been pathetic creatively. I'm not sure why many people are amazed that 23 years later it's exactly the same. In fact, it's even WORSE now because he has zero reason to even be creative now with all the money they're making.


----------



## AEWMoxley




----------



## JonLeduc

This podcast was awesome.

Finally the truth is coming out. I have a feeling that it's not the last time we hear things like that...

Anybody else thinks him and Punk could have a long conversation about that ? Haha.


----------



## Jedah

As I've said before, Vince's biggest hits basically didn't come from him.

- Vince had the idea for WrestleMania, but was supposedly going to call it "the Colossal Tussle" before Howard Finkle stopped him.

- Hogan was essentially already the finished item. Vince was just smart enough to give him the platform. He had zero to do with the character. When Vince tried to create another Hogan in Lex Luger, it failed spectacularly.

- As noted above, he brought in Austin as the Ringmaster and then when he wanted to change his gimmick, suggested names like Fang McFrost and Otto von Ruthless. Austin had to fight for his own character. Guaranteed if Austin was in today's environment he'd have stayed as the Ringmaster.

- Rocky Maivia was a terrible flop. Vince had the foresight back then to turn him heel and The Rock simply took off. If he was in today's environment he'd have stayed as Rocky Maivia.

- Vince came close to firing John Cena. He was more interested in pushing first Brock (who was not a draw back then), then Orton (who flopped in his initial face turn), and then Batista (who succeeded, but was rather old to be the FOTC), but Cena just got more over than them all.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Jedah said:


> Fang McFrost and Otto von Ruthless.


I honestly can't decide which name is funnier. Fang McFrost, Otto von Ruthless, or Chilly McFreeze.

The absolute brilliance of Vince McMahon.

:banderas


----------



## Jedah

Guarantee if it had taken place post-war it'd have been:

"HEY PAL, THIS...FANG MCFROST THING...*IT'S SUCH GOOD SHIT. IT'S SO WELL WRITTEN.* IT'S WHAT MAKES YOU DIFFERENT...AND IT'S GONNA GET YOU A TON OF HEAT!" :vince3


----------



## Laughable Chimp

AEWMoxley said:


> I honestly can't decide which name is funnier. Fang McFrost, Otto von Ruthless, or Chilly McFreeze.
> 
> The absolute brilliance of Vince McMahon.
> 
> :banderas


Tbf, do we actually know that's a Vince Mcmahon thing and not one of his writers coming up with those names?


----------



## AEWMoxley

Laughable Chimp said:


> Tbf, do we actually know that's a Vince Mcmahon thing and not one of his writers coming up with those names?


Austin said it came from Vince. Just by looking at those names, it's fairly obvious it was Vince. There's not another adult alive that would come up with those names.


----------



## Geeee

Laughable Chimp said:


> Tbf, do we actually know that's a Vince Mcmahon thing and not one of his writers coming up with those names?


At the time, I think the only writers were Vince McMahon and Vince Russo?


----------



## DammitChrist

Zappers said:


> Why would anyone be threatened about an alternative? They aren't a threat in the slightest bit. Not even competition with WWE.
> 
> It you bothered to listen to the podcast, they said it themselves. :jericho2


I clearly did listen to the podcast, and I never stated that they are huge threats :jericho2


----------



## Matthew Castillo

Jedah said:


> As I've said before, Vince's biggest hits basically didn't come from him.
> 
> - Vince had the idea for WrestleMania, but was supposedly going to call it "the Colossal Tussle" before Howard Finkle stopped him.
> 
> - Hogan was essentially already the finished item. Vince was just smart enough to give him the platform. He had zero to do with the character. When Vince tried to create another Hogan in Lex Luger, it failed spectacularly.
> .


Also a lot of his success in the 80s came from leveraging the considerably resources that Vince Sr. Had built up. Both by essentially buying nearly every top star at the time and by undercutting the ability for other territories to stay on TV by paying for TV time.


----------



## Zappers

DammitC said:


> I clearly did listen to the podcast, and I never stated that they are huge threats :jericho2


I never said you stated they are "huge threats". :jericho2


----------



## Balls Mahoney

RapShepard said:


> You're making up points in your head. I simply said and keep saying I find it annoying and dramatic when adults talk about how sick they feel going into work. If that interests you then cool, it doesn't interest me.


U mad cos the Mox is talented and has been able to do something something about it by moving on - whilst you answer yes sir to your boss everyday because you've 1. not got the talent and 2. not got the balls to do anything about it? 

I'd hate to be you. Keep accepting being a loser


----------



## Beatles123

Zappers said:


> Wrong. Dean got to put his spin on most of his promos. He said it himself. Not all obviously but most of them. What do you think was the reason he said he was in Vinces and other meetings almost every week. He was had a problem with everything they wrote for him. Regardless, the entire thing is one persons opinion. One person's account on what was given specifically to him and his character alone. Dean had a problem with what he thought in his mind, in his opinion was not good writing. All the stuff he did on TV, the fans mostly enjoyed. It's impossible to please every single fan.
> 
> Now go ask Sami or Owens for one small example. Go ask them, hey do you think creative sucks? Go ask New Day members? Do you think creative sucks? Owens is killing it out there. Go ask Becky, go ask Charlotte, do they think creative sucks? Go ask Miz, creative suck? Only people that think things suck are the ones that have a problem on the way they are pushed. They want to be in the title hunt 24/7. Well they don't have room for everyone. There's so much of what you can do with a lunatic persona. Maybe it got stale. maybe it's a fact that Moxley has no range to be anything else. Look at his AEW debut. He's the same guy .. AGAIN. When he first started in WWE, he was mostly silent, laid back, just kicking butt with the shield. But then he just unleashed the Moxley character from his indy days, probably his idea no doubt. Moxley put himself in a box, the persona, the merch.... there's so much you can do with that character. Very hard to go back.


I lost brain cells just reading that. fpalm 

He didn't put his spin on shit. In fact, he was specifically told to read all of his promos verbatim and stop TRYING to put his spin on them. You even said yourself that he was having issues with everything written. BECAUSE HE HAD NO CONTROL OVER IT! Moxley isn't a robot, He's an artist. The ideas he was given were and still are objectively awful and I will put a stamp on that. You're pure lying to yourself if you think people were enjoying his schtick with the mustard and the gas mask and Mitch the potted plant un-ironically. This forum hated it and we grew used to it because it was Ambrose and nothing more. 

As for asking Owens, New Day etc....What, you mean the WORST PARTS OF THE SHOW?! Kofi just now earned a title run after becoming arguably the worst version of himself he's been in his entire career after 11 years of solid work. He finally did enough of Vince's hokey-pokey bullshit to earn a big enough organic groundswell to grant a pity run as champ and its already being shat on by almost everyone here. Becky was another such organic case and she'd already been made into a joke. Owens was made into a joke from the very first return vignette he was given, and Miz?....MIZ?....you dare bring up his name to me with a straight face as if he has any ounce of artistic integrity as a wrestler? Yes. Because the man who never had to actually be at odds with Vince and became the embodiment of schlock entertainment Vince loves, who probably has more in common with his warped mindset than anyone on the roster is gonna know the difference between shit and quality wrestling booking. Fuck outta here with that BS.

Fact is, you have NO understanding of who Mox is as a performer because you were never allowed to see it. "Only so much you can do" indeed. What tripe. You mean despite the fact he was building one of the most layered, complex characters ever? One with a backstory, an ever-evolving moveset and a character-arch which had real life emotion and drama put into it in FCW? Have you ever SEEN his non-main roster work? If you had, you wouldn't be spouting the needless drivel you are now.

Congratulations on being part of the very small minority that unfortunately can't see what would be obvious to the rest of us from space. Points of view like yours are why Vince can get away with his mind-numbing incompetence. I hope it's worth keeping the company trapped in the stone age while the rest of us try our best to finally crawl out of the wrestling gene pool!

:buried :fuckthis


----------



## Asuka842

Becky openly mocked how dumb her storyline/booking was going into WrestleMania. So she's not above taking shots at WWE as well.


----------



## Disputed

AEWMoxley said:


> I honestly can't decide which name is funnier. Fang McFrost, Otto von Ruthless, or Chilly McFreeze.
> 
> The absolute brilliance of Vince McMahon.
> 
> :banderas


Fang McFrost vs Rocky Maivia at the Colossal Tussle!

THAT'S GOOD SHIT


----------



## Asuka842

Vince also wanted "Mankind the Mutilator" or something along those lines for Mick Foley. And Mick was the one who came up with just "Mankind" and the idea behind it.


----------



## NeyNey

Telos said:


> Would love to see him bring back the Hook and Ladder as a signature move at least.


YES PLEASE :done wens3


----------



## llj

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1133902476221042688
RAW and Smackdown wishes they had ratings like this !!!


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Zappers said:


> Wrong. Dean got to put his spin on most of his promos. He said it himself. Not all obviously but most of them. What do you think was the reason he said he was in Vinces and other meetings almost every week. He was had a problem with everything they wrote for him. Regardless, the entire thing is one persons opinion. One person's account on what was given specifically to him and his character alone. Dean had a problem with what he thought in his mind, in his opinion was not good writing. All the stuff he did on TV, the fans mostly enjoyed. It's impossible to please every single fan.
> 
> Now go ask Sami or Owens for one small example. Go ask them, hey do you think creative sucks? Go ask New Day members? Do you think creative sucks? Owens is killing it out there. Go ask Becky, go ask Charlotte, do they think creative sucks? *Go ask Miz, creative suck?* Only people that think things suck are the ones that have a problem on the way they are pushed. They want to be in the title hunt 24/7. Well they don't have room for everyone. There's so much of what you can do with a lunatic persona. Maybe it got stale. maybe it's a fact that Moxley has no range to be anything else. Look at his AEW debut. He's the same guy .. AGAIN. When he first started in WWE, he was mostly silent, laid back, just kicking butt with the shield. But then he just unleashed the Moxley character from his indy days, probably his idea no doubt. Moxley put himself in a box, the persona, the merch.... there's so much you can do with that character. Very hard to go back.


Miz's last 2 months includes losing twice on PPV to Shane Mcmahon, losing clean to Drew and losing clean to Corbin in a #1 contender's match.

I'm sure he's thrilled with creative right now...


----------



## Zappers

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> Miz's last 2 months includes losing twice on PPV to Shane Mcmahon, losing clean to Drew and losing clean to Corbin in a #1 contender's match.
> 
> I'm sure he's thrilled with creative right now...


Well, because you don't have a title around your waist, doesn't mean it's poor writing. The Miz has entertained for several years, several titles, etc... Got to play both a heel/face, a few times. The Miz TV segments. Was in a highlight spot at WM. Been in a few WWE backed films, has his own TV show. I highly doubt he's pissed off at WWE. But obviously, I could be wrong. Maybe he's just as angry and bitter at the WWE too for losing a handful of matches recently. :shrug Plus, I maybe in the minority but losing to Drew/Corbin isn't a bad thing imho. Both guys are very strong opponents. And Drew wasn't clean. Shane cheated to help Drew win.


----------



## sim8

Jericho tweeted this is the most downloaded episode of his podcast so far, and it only took ten hours


----------



## deadcool

I finished listening to it. Amazing podcast.

Props to Jericho first for allowing Jon to speak his piece without interrupting him or trying to push his own narrative in.

The podcast pretty much confirms what Meltzer and Alvarez has been saying about Vince for all this time. He really is becoming a problem and frankly needs to go.

The podcast on quite a few points echoed Punk's; both wrestlers worked while extremely hurt, Vince/Triple HGH stifling them creatively, Vince/Triple HGH being petty on multiple points and trying to screw up his character, and the way Moxley's final talk with both Vince and Triple HGH went.

I gained utmost respect for Jonathan Good as a man for taking their worst crap like a man and walking away in a far more respectable manner than Vince deserved. 

I stopped watching WWE because of how they were exploiting Joseph Anoia's real life illness. The last time I watched, I saw Good tear up while giving that terrible promo that Vince wrote for him (in fact, I made a comment about it on this board) about his friend's illness. I give him props for handling it much better than I would. Cause if it was me, I would have went to Vince and be like "Why don't I give a promo about your Hepatitis illness and see how you and your family like it?". Or more likely, I would have quit on the spot.

The important thing here is that WWE is a tawdry piece of sh** company and Vince has no morals or feelings towards people other than his family. Every charitable or good thing WWE does should be questioned as there is definitely a motive behind it as opposed to doing the right thing.

Certain misguided people like Bret Hart as well as Owen Hart fans should re-evaluate their thinking on inducting Owen to the WWE HOF as doing that would further tarnish a good man's name who no longer is with us all in due to Vince McMahon.

I hope that WWE continues to operate their programming the way they do now and keep this BS up, as that would be easy pickings for AEW. 

The most important thing being, I always knew that Ambrose/Moxley was an exceptional performer, and I'm sure his feud with Omega is going to tear the house down. 

I am curious to see how WWE spins this. Last time with CM Punk, Vince didn't do jack squat aside from issuing a fake a** apology on Austin's podcast and Triple HGH was a lying bi*** who said that he had no idea that Punk was having such a difficult time.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Zappers said:


> Well, because you don't have a title around your waist, doesn't mean it's poor writing. The Miz has entertained for several years, several titles, etc... Got to play both a heel/face, a few times. The Miz TV segments. Was in a highlight spot at WM. Been in a few WWE backed films, has his own TV show. I highly doubt he's pissed off at WWE. But obviously, I could be wrong. Maybe he's just as angry and bitter at the WWE too for losing a handful of matches recently. :shrug Plus, I maybe in the minority but losing to Drew/Corbin isn't a bad thing imho. Both guys are very strong opponents. And Drew wasn't clean. Shane cheated to help Drew win.


Losing an entire feud to the 50 year old non-wrestler bosses son is poor booking, yes. The fact that you have to bring up non-wrestling things like him having a reality show and movie roles to justify his booking shows how shitty it has been.

I'm sure Miz is happy with the opportunities he's received at WWE. He's made a lot of money and met his wife. But all of that has fuckall to do with how Vince and creative book him on TV.

Mox said in his shoot that he was grateful for WWE giving him a stage to become a star on and all the money he made there. Then he went in on Vince and the shitty ass writers because they fucking suck at their jobs.

Do you actually watch the WWE product? Can you tell me what the point to anything they do is? 

Why is Brock using a briefcase as a boombox for 20 minutes to open a show? Why is Seth chasing Brock when he's already the champion? Why is Shane cutting 20 minute promos on both shows each week and facing local jobbers? Why are guys as jacked as Elias and Drew forced to be his lackeys and booked to look weaker than him? Why did Kofi go from a career mid-card comedy act to beating half the roster clean in a span of 2 months? Why did Daniel Bryan go from world champion to jobbing in tag matches on a pre-show in a month?

Nothing they do makes any fucking sense or gets anyone over. 50/50 booking was designed to make everyone look expendable and make the brand the star. Maybe that's why marks like you love WWE because the brand name gets you off. There can't be any other explanation at this point.


----------



## J-B

Fucking loved the podcast. Mox going in DEEP and shining a bright ass light over the creative bullshit which he and so many people have had to deal with.


----------



## Zappers

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> Losing an entire feud to the 50 year old non-wrestler bosses son is poor booking, yes. The fact that you have to bring up non-wrestling things like him having a reality show and movie roles to justify his booking shows how shitty it has been.
> 
> I'm sure Miz is happy with the opportunities he's received at WWE. He's made a lot of money and met his wife. But all of that has fuckall to do with how Vince and creative book him on TV.
> 
> Mox said in his shoot that he was grateful for WWE giving him a stage to become a star on and all the money he made there. Then he went in on Vince and the shitty ass writers because they fucking suck at their jobs.
> 
> Do you actually watch the WWE product? Can you tell me what the point to anything they do is?
> 
> Why is Brock using a briefcase as a boombox for 20 minutes to open a show? Why is Seth chasing Brock when he's already the champion? Why is Shane cutting 20 minute promos on both shows each week and facing local jobbers? Why are guys as jacked as Elias and Drew forced to be his lackeys and booked to look weaker than him? Why did Kofi go from a career mid-card comedy act to beating half the roster clean in a span of 2 months? Why did Daniel Bryan go from world champion to jobbing in tag matches on a pre-show in a month?
> 
> Nothing they do makes any fucking sense or gets anyone over. 50/50 booking was designed to make everyone look expendable and make the brand the star. *Maybe that's why marks like you love WWE because the brand name gets you off. There can't be any other explanation at this point.*


First off, no reason to start being insulting to me and taking unnecessary shots. You don't know me and never will. I'm not a mark of any sort. Having a civil conversation here. Why go there?

That being said:

I don't know. That's a lot of questions that I don't have the answer to.

The Brock stuff. A lot of people thought that was pretty entertaining. A definite different side of him we normally don't see. I will never say something like I know Brock, but listening to him in interviews, reading all I read, he dosen't seem like a guy that would do something if he didn't want to. Maybe he thought the Brock Party thing was funny. Maybe Heyman thought so too. :shrug Can't say he's not going full out with it. But what's good about it, is that he can turn that off like a switch, and just destroy someone. Which makes the whole thing very entertaining imho.

Kofi winning the title. I thought that's what the fans wanted to see? Like Becky Lynch winning. Now people have a problem with both. What if Ziggler wins the title? Are people gonna have a problem with that? What about Owens? What about Drew, What about (insert wrestler here) Do people want Bryan to be the title holder? What is gonna make people happy? Or should I say what is gonna make Moxley happy? In the interview he talked about what he didn't like they told him to do. Well, why didn't he state several things that he wanted to do. What did he exactly pitch? What creative storylines did he come up with that would have turned around the ratings, but Vince specifically turned down? We don't know, all we know is his complaints. He never talked about flipping the script, going into Vince and pitching different stories and feuds each week. None of that. Why didn't Jericho push him on that? He just sat there, uh huh, yeah, uh huh, yeah. Meanwhile he's a guy that got the red carpet treatment. 

But we can do this for ever and ever. We can question thousands of things. If the ratings were high right now, nobody would be questioning any of this. Back in the Attitude era they did some crazy, crazy things. Same in WCW. Some of the ideas and pushes were ridiculous, worst than anything we've seen in the last 5 years. Yet the ratings were through the roof. Low ratings is not all due to poor writing. It's just a fact. It's a combination of things. It's the writing, It's the wrestlers themselves. It's the fans tastes, it's the age of the people watching, it's the world of cell phones, tablets, DVR's etc... There's no demand like there was before. There are a thousand TV channels and shows to watch, Netflix, HULU, Amazon, etc... porn whatever floats your boat. People are just not watching TV like they used to, it's just a fact. Bottom line just because you got a few bad storylines here and there isn't the sole reason for the ratings dropping. Doesn't help, but not the sole reason. A few guys that never were or never will be as popular as say the Rock or Austin or a ton of other guys, They want to leave the WWE for greener pastures, fine by me. Good luck to you. I'm sure the open spot will be filled, and possibly a new star will rise. Maybe not. Only time will tell.


----------



## Asuka842

It's not about titles, Moxley barely mentioned titles in his entire interview. It's about A. Getting stuff to do that is interesting and/or B. Not getting dumb/humiliating crap handed to you and have to sell it. And THAT'S the problem in WWE right now.


----------



## DJ Punk

Finally decided to get around to listening to this. The dude was absolutely humiliated. Holy shit. And Vince even got fed up with Moxley trying to change the script? Are you fucking serious? I'm speechless...

Anyone with any self respect shouldn't work for this company or watch this crap. Fuck WWE.

I'm only 30 minutes in too.


----------



## What A Maneuver

Yeah, I don't know where anyone would get the idea that he was mad because he wasn't in the title picture 24/7. He never even brought up title reigns. Moxley is a creative mind who was being controlled and suffocated. If you have an expertise, usually when you hit the big leagues you're then allowed to make a career out of that expertise. It'd be like writing a New York Times bestselling novel, and then having your agent tell you your next book is going to be ghostwritten by someone else but they want to slap your name on the cover.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420

Zappers said:


> First off, no reason to start being insulting to me and taking unnecessary shots. You don't know me and never will. I'm not a mark of any sort. Having a civil conversation here. Why go there?
> 
> That being said:
> 
> I don't know. That's a lot of questions that I don't have the answer to.
> 
> The Brock stuff. A lot of people thought that was pretty entertaining. A definite different side of him we normally don't see. I will never say something like I know Brock, but listening to him in interviews, reading all I read, he dosen't seem like a guy that would do something if he didn't want to. Maybe he thought the Brock Party thing was funny. Maybe Heyman thought so too. :shrug Can't say he's not going full out with it. But what's good about it, is that he can turn that off like a switch, and just destroy someone. Which makes the whole thing very entertaining imho.
> 
> Kofi winning the title. I thought that's what the fans wanted to see? Like Becky Lynch winning. Now people have a problem with both. What if Ziggler wins the title? Are people gonna have a problem with that? What about Owens? What about Drew, What about (insert wrestler here) Do people want Bryan to be the title holder? What is gonna make people happy? Or should I say what is gonna make Moxley happy? In the interview he talked about what he didn't like they told him to do. Well, why didn't he state several things that he wanted to do. What did he exactly pitch? What creative storylines did he come up with that would have turned around the ratings, but Vince specifically turned down? We don't know, all we know is his complaints. He never talked about flipping the script, going into Vince and pitching different stories and feuds each week. None of that. Why didn't Jericho push him on that? He just sat there, uh huh, yeah, uh huh, yeah. Meanwhile he's a guy that got the red carpet treatment.
> 
> But we can do this for ever and ever. We can question thousands of things. If the ratings were high right now, nobody would be questioning any of this. Back in the Attitude era they did some crazy, crazy things. Same in WCW. Some of the ideas and pushes were ridiculous, worst than anything we've seen in the last 5 years. Yet the ratings were through the roof. Low ratings is not all due to poor writing. It's just a fact. It's a combination of things. It's the writing, It's the wrestlers themselves. It's the fans tastes, it's the age of the people watching, it's the world of cell phones, tablets, DVR's etc... There's no demand like there was before. There are a thousand TV channels and shows to watch, Netflix, HULU, Amazon, etc... porn whatever floats your boat. People are just not watching TV like they used to, it's just a fact. Bottom line just because you got a few bad storylines here and there isn't the sole reason for the ratings dropping. Doesn't help, but not the sole reason. A few guys that never were or never will be as popular as say the Rock or Austin or a ton of other guys, They want to leave the WWE for greener pastures, fine by me. Good luck to you. I'm sure the open spot will be filled, and possibly a new star will rise. Maybe not. Only time will tell.


What Brock did 2 weeks ago was funny because it wasn't forced. I don't believe they planned the "Brock Party" shit ahead of time because this company doesn't plan anything ahead of time. What happened is Brock is a master troll and came up with the boombox shit on his own. Then someone showed Vince that it became popular online and then he decided he just had to get his shitty hands on it and ruined it. What we got this week was overly drawn out cringe that reeked of Vince living through Brock by doing this










Kofi winning the title as a feelgood moment was fine. They have clearly taken it too far by having him win matches every week in superman comeback fashion. Owens and Zayn are no longer credible after he no sold their finishers on free TV. He gets put on a stretcher one week by Dolph and the next week he's out there tossing pancakes and acting like nothing happened.

Becky has been booked like an afterthought since winning the title. She is their most over star, sells the most merch yet they throw her out there in the middle of shows, give her no real storyline and barely any promo time. If her merch didn't print money I'm not convinced she'd even be on TV every week.

Moxley flat out said they turned his ideas down. He flew to New York to meet Vince in person to pitch ideas for his return, he rejected them all and then lied to his face about letting him return at SummerSlam and wasted it on a random Raw instead. Vince doesn't listen to the wrestlers. He does what the fuck he wants to do.

They wouldn't be losing 1 million viewers a year if they put out even a semi-watchable product. They haven't created a new star since Punk and they chased him off. They still do the shitty holiday food party comedy segments. They're shoving Shane down everyone's throats. They punish talents for getting over. There are a million reasons ratings are shit. Making excuses about having other options is a cop out. If the shows didn't suck ass then WWE would be just as appealing as those other options you named.


----------



## MoxleyMoxx

Figured this'd go in here since it's related

Deathmatch legend Sick Nick Mondo discusses directing the Moxley vignettes:


----------



## llj

This interview also shoots down that awful smark myth of "Vince likes to be challenged! Challenge him and you'll get a push!"

How many times does it have to be said. There is no brass ring. Vince will push people as his whims go. Has nothing to do with being challenged or stood up to or whatever myth people come up with.


----------



## DxNWO4Lyfe

llj said:


> This interview also shoots down that awful smark myth of "Vince likes to be challenged! Challenge him and you'll get a push!"
> 
> How many times does it have to be said. There is no brass ring. Vince will push people as his whims go. Has nothing to do with being challenged or stood up to or whatever myth people come up with.


I agree back in the late 90s when wrestlers such as Austin, Mankind, Triple H, Rock and others said they had the so called brass ring. They didn’t. They had an owner who if he didn’t listen he would have been put out of business by the competition aka WCW. So what did he do? He gave in. You think Vince would do that today? Hell NO! Smart Marks need to realize this.


----------



## reyfan

Telos said:


> To be fair Moxley was always a goofball even in his pre-WWE days. He’s probably still going to be that guy but with even more of an edge to him. As for the finisher I respectfully disagree, I think it works great as an impact move. The setup to it is similar to the Stone Cold Stunner, he can hit it quickly and put anyone’s lights out in an instant. Would love to see him bring back the Hook and Ladder as a signature move at least.


... So basically he has a warped perception of himself then, he didn't want to be treated like a goof ball character despite him being one by default, it's like he pictures himself as Stone Cold when infact he acts like Eugene.


----------



## chronoxiong

I listened to the whole podcast and it was riveting. Moxley buried that company and it was needed. The ways how they are running that place needs to change and it starts with Vince. What Moxley said pretty much confirms all the reports about Vince micromanaging everything as well. Its only gonna be a matter of time before Vince has to fuck off and let other people run his company. But yeah, this made me like Moxley even more now. The guy is talented and shouldn't have to deal with the WWE's way of writing promos. Hope he does well in AEW


----------



## NeyNey

MoxleyMoxx said:


> Figured this'd go in here since it's related
> 
> Deathmatch legend Sick Nick Mondo discusses directing the Moxley vignettes:


Nice man, you always find the good stuff! wens3


----------



## Erik.

Pretty sure on re-watch, Mondo is actually in the Moxley prison video too.


----------



## FROSTY

Don't think this has been posted in here yet, but it's Shield's final interview before the $500 Network special, what Mox was talking about when he said he thought they were going to take a shot at him not being able to hack it. It's actually a pretty sick 60 second shoot promo for anyone who hasn't seen it.






I still can't believe there are those that truly believe Ambrose/Moxley sucks at promos. He's always been the best on the mic going today, he's just been given awful material. For the mini-shoot start at the 14:10 mark.


----------



## NeyNey

SWITCHBLADE SHOOK said:


> Don't think this has been posted in here yet, but it's Shield's final interview before the $500 Network special, what Mox was talking about when he said he thought they were going to take a shot at him not being able to hack it. It's actually a pretty sick 60 second shoot promo for anyone who hasn't seen it.


Yes, and it's where he says he cashed in his chips, won the game and left.
Weeks later, at DoN, he stands on a stack of poker chips at the end. wens3


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## looper007

llj said:


> This interview also shoots down that awful smark myth of "Vince likes to be challenged! Challenge him and you'll get a push!"
> 
> How many times does it have to be said. There is no brass ring. Vince will push people as his whims go. Has nothing to do with being challenged or stood up to or whatever myth people come up with.


I think before he had to answer to other parties and didn't have sponsor's telling him what he couldn't and could do and his business was on the line, maybe he could be challenged and that's why you hear Austin say it a lot. He probably didn't have to deal with the Vince who has a ton of writers and has no WCW to challenge him and even when Austin comes back he will always have sway and be able to tell Vince what he wants. Not the case for everyone else.

The whole "Brass Ring" crap is just that crap. If it's a 6ft 6 monster or a 6ft 4 pretty boy or a Blonde, beautiful woman and if they are Vince's pet projects they are set and if the crowd like them it's a bonus. If you ain't those things, no matter how over you are and if they do give you the title or WM moment it's only going to be fleeting.

You can tell straight away from the moment they sign and start work in NXT who's going to be a star or not.


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## IronMan8

*Re: Jon Moxley “Talk is Jericho” highlights aka Goes the fuck in on Vince*



SWITCHBLADE SHOOK said:


> The one where the doctor gave him shots in his ass to not get diseases from the disgusting fans lol.
> 
> But he said he knew he was done back in July of 2018, that promo just made it to where he wouldn't even look at their contract offer.


I feel guilty for enjoying that segment now... lol.

I just viewed it as Dean passively aggressively pulling off an elaborate stunt as an abstract way of expressing himself. 

I guess that wasn't what Vince was going for.

Goes to show how great he is that he can turn _that_ into something that works me into thinking it's clever.


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## IronMan8

*Re: Jon Moxley “Talk is Jericho” highlights aka Goes the fuck in on Vince*



Mox Girl said:


> It's so crazy that he knew he was leaving while doing that promo yet he still sold the absolute SHIT out of it. God, he's such a professional! He didn't waver at all or let his disdain show.


Yep. 

I thought he was being really clever and abstract, but turns out he was just turning pooper scoopers into gold like only Dean could.

Currently my favourite wrestler


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## kendo_nagasaki

Jericho has now said other talents have since contacted him to say they look forward to recording their podcast with him in X months time...


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## SPCDRI

The shots and odor thing is SO ATROCIOUS but Moxley is so good, he almost turned that chicken shit into chicken a la king. "You know, this is really stupid, but I'm getting sold on it, kinda, is this Dean's idea?" Meanwhile, he hates it so much he's dry heaving before doing it and going on WebMD afterwards to find out if he's got clinical depression from his workplace, lol.


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## TOPDAWG21

I love it the guy seems very down to earth. I don't need more money WTF am I going to do buy cars? He seems to know what he wants in life and that is all he needs. Also, he made a Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer reference so that is a win in my book. 

I can understand the money thing I make good money at my job but there is sometimes so much BS I'd change jobs for less money to not have to deal with such BS all the time.


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