# Jon Moxley sucks



## TheDraw (Jun 27, 2019)

It's clear that people want to like this guy for some strange reason despite his work being mediocre at best. If anybody came out of tonight looking like a star it was Lance Archer.

Moxley is an absolute sloppy worker that comes off looking like a mouth breathing window licker in matches. Tripping over himself and trying way too hard to play the psycho when it's clearly not him. 

It might be hard to admit for a lot of people but Sami Callihan is everything Jon Moxley tries to be and wishes he was. Sami actually looks, sounds, and is a more believable psycho because he actually is one in real life. Not to mention he wrestle's circles around Mox who just looks clueless out there.

I think if Callihan and Moxley have a match soon a lot of people eyes are gonna be opened as to how much Sami has surpassed this guy.


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## Kalashnikov (Dec 30, 2010)

Yeah, he's painfully average in the ring, and is trying too hard to portray this unhinged character. On the other hand, he has ridiculous amounts of charisma and is an absolute natural in promos. Kinda like the guy in my avy, except Eddie is even more polarized in all of these things.


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## midgetlover69 (Nov 27, 2016)

Hes awful in the ring but thats the least important thing for a wrestler


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## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

Wait, am I missing something?

Jon Moxley is pretty good in the ring though :aries2


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## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

He’s trying way too hard to act unhinged and edgy.

In comparison, Darby Allin’s gimmick of a weird fuck who hurts himself comes off as quite natural (possibly because it’s not a gimmick but that’s a different story)


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Bit of an overreaction. His not crisp in the ring but his character doesn't demand he be a technical wizard. His there to drop fools on their heads and be a tough guy


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

He does force mannerisms a lot. But he's a fairly enjoyable top guy. Not one of my favorites of the era, but he doesn't offend me.


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## .christopher. (Jan 14, 2014)

Thought it since I started watching wrestling again in 2013 for Bryan's push. Never got the hype with him. Or any of the shield, honestly.


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## TheDraw (Jun 27, 2019)

La Parka said:


> He’s trying way too hard to act unhinged and edgy.
> 
> In comparison, Darby Allin’s gimmick of a weird fuck who hurts himself comes off as quite natural (possibly because it’s not a gimmick but that’s a different story)


Exactly. 

Darby is everything that I would usually hate in a guy but he plays his character so well that it makes up for his size and shortcomings. I can believe the character and he even integrates his little character naunces in his match perfectly.

Moxley kinda feels like he's trying hard to be done else imo and it comes off bad more often than not. Sure, once in a while he'll cut a good promo but people act like he is prime Flair on the mic. The overall package that he presents just isn't that good.


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## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

This is gonna be really unpopular but Ambrose > Moxley. I'll take him getting a needle up the bum over this shit. He's the same character now that he was in WWE except he's actually allowed to swear. He's still done plenty of goofy and hokey shit in AEW, which is what he complained about in WWE, was extremely ungrateful for the platform Vince gave him even after Moxley shit the fucking bed as the top champion.


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## Smithy.89 (Apr 9, 2019)

😂😂 I’m sure everyone from aew is going to be this big breakout start then after a while people realise there not


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## Kalashnikov (Dec 30, 2010)

DammitChrist said:


> Wait, am I missing something?
> 
> Jon Moxley is pretty good in the ring though :aries2


His only really memorable non-gimmick matches (at least for me) are vs Rollins (MITB 2015), vs Triple H (Roadblock 2016, which was admittedly MOTY for me) and vs AJ later that same year (TLC maybe?). Otherwise, he's an average worker that tries REALLY hard to pretend he's a psycho in the ring. That's one of the reasons why most of his "big" matches has some sort of hardcore gimmick, because he's mediocre when he can't use weapons.


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## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

Kalashnikov said:


> His only really memorable non-gimmick matches (at least for me) are vs Rollins (MITB 2015), vs Triple H (Roadblock 2016, which was admittedly MOTY for me) and vs AJ later that same year (TLC maybe?). Otherwise, he's an average worker that tries REALLY hard to pretend he's a psycho in the ring. That's one of the reasons why most of his "big" matches has some sort of hardcore gimmick, because he's mediocre when he can't use weapons.


The Ambrose vs Triple H match is probably Moxley's best match of his career in terms of non gimmick matches. I hate Triple H as a booker but as a talent? He's great at building feuds up, and that's exactly what he did with Dean, he made him look like a legitimate threat to the title.


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## Charzhino (Nov 20, 2007)

His run with the Shield as Ambrose actually made him look like an unhinged, swat team outlaw. Probably because he was a balanced compliment to Rollins and Reigns and as a group they looked like badasses collectively. Only Roman has come out of the Shield retaining this aura. Rollins and Moxley have both gone backwards.


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## rich110991 (Aug 27, 2020)

I like Mox


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## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

He's always had that issue for me whether he was Jon Moxley or Dean Ambrose, its always felt like he's trying way to hard to be this unhinged wildman, but it always just feels like an act.


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## Randy Lahey (Apr 14, 2014)

Moxley should be a present day Sandman. Those types of characters are always way over, and it doesn't matter what their ring work looks like


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## KingofKings1524 (Aug 27, 2007)

Man, didn’t take long for everyone to turn on Mox.


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## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

A few people said this when he debut, he complained about being "held back" then came to AEW and did nothing to reinvent himself but change his name, dude needed an overhaul.


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## xio4up (Dec 7, 2020)

He just another indie wrestler.


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## 304418 (Jul 2, 2014)

It’s because he does not do anything in his matches to suggest he genuinely is a wildman.

If you watch his matches with Juice Robinson from BOSJ 2019 and his match with Tomohiro Ishii at G1 29, he actually behaves like how a wildman character in wrestling is supposed to act.

Moxley’s presentation in AEW looks PG next to his NJPW presentation. The only ones that are genuinely impressed with everything Moxley does in AEW are WWE stans that are only familiar with his WWE work.


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## Passing Triangles (Feb 2, 2015)

If he's trying to play a psychopath then being "wild" and "unhinged" is the wrong way to go about it. Psychopaths have extremely limited range of emotion and are not impulsive people in the slightest. It'd be more accurate to state that Jake "the Snake" Roberts is closer to a psychopathic character in wrestling. Calculated, methodical, preemptive, composed, unemotional. 

What Moxley is trying to portray is sociopathic, rather. Impulsive, prone to fits of anger with low impulse control. Psychopaths have high impulse control and come across like every normal person you've met....... Sociopaths stand out.

Moxley is a sociopathic character.

Whether he does it good or not is up for debate lol


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## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Moxley is excellent and one of the best in AEW. He’s a much better in ring worker than given credit for. On the mic he’s at the top in the company in terms of wrestlers. He plays his character well and he performs consistently. He’s the best World Champion AEW has had so far. 

Moxley is severely underrated.


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## Dark Emperor (Jul 31, 2007)

There is a reason why he's was the least successful Shield member in their singles run. He's just not as good as the other two. A, step below. 

Vince gets it.


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## Mr316 (Dec 3, 2020)

All I’m gonna say about Mox is that he came in AEW looking like a star. Right now, not so much. Looks like he stopped caring about his appearance.


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## CRCC (Sep 25, 2017)

I agree.

His work in AEW has proven vince right in putting him as the 3rd guy on the Shield.

He's a bad worker and fails to portray this dangerous and unhinged character he tries to be.

PS: His head shaking and body mannerisms are so ridiculous. He can talk though.


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## Outlaw91 (Mar 31, 2011)

Verbatim17 said:


> It’s because he does not do anything in his matches to suggest he genuinely is a wildman.
> 
> If you watch his matches with Juice Robinson from BOSJ 2019 and his match with Tomohiro Ishii at G1 29, he actually behaves like how a wildman character in wrestling is supposed to act.
> 
> Moxley’s presentation in AEW looks PG next to his NJPW presentation. The only ones that are genuinely impressed with everything Moxley does in AEW are WWE stans that are only familiar with his WWE work.


True, Death Rider Mox is the best. Just like NJPW is better than AEW and WWE.

LOL at the people suggesting Ambrose is better than Moxley. He's not that good in AEW but still... Moxley is much better than those 2 cringe idiots Rollins and Reigns.


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## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

KingofKings1524 said:


> Man, didn’t take long for everyone to turn on Mox.


This place turns on everybody lol. 

If this were like 2000-01 we'd have threads about how Austin sucked.


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## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> This is gonna be really unpopular but Ambrose > Moxley. I'll take him getting a needle up the bum over this shit. He's the same character now that he was in WWE except he's actually allowed to swear. He's still done plenty of goofy and hokey shit in AEW, which is what he complained about in WWE, was extremely ungrateful for the platform Vince gave him even after Moxley shit the fucking bed as the top champion.


I'm going to be honest and say that this is 100% total bullshit. First of all. He didn't shit the bed as the top champion. He got drafted to Smackdown and instantly Smackdowns ratings shot up. And not just a one time occurrence. It was like that every single week with him as the champion. They went from around 2-2.2 million viewers to around 2.4-2.8 for the few months he was champion. Thats a great increase.

Second. Your reasoning for why Ambrose is better then Moxley is because "well Moxley also does some stupid stuff"? For every dumb thing he has done in AEW, there is about 10 worse things he did in WWE. Jobbing to a plant, a hologram, a television. Jobbing to Lesnar. And I mean the true definition of jobbing. Not an exaggeration. Being buried and losing feuds constantly. Had that stupid meth head look where he looked like he was 15 pounds away from Darby Allin weight. Constantly losing. Get fucking screwed over by Rollins constantly and being Roman's bitch. Add in the cringe pg promos because he had to hold it back and the amazing gas mask gimmick they put him in.

He has had many more great promos and matches in AEW then he ever had in WWE. And he has been booked much better. It's just that it's fucking AEW and some of you will pull out your revisionist history bullshit and shit on anything AEW related and never give them credit. Moxley has not been perfect, but he is one of the good things that AEW had done. Much better then Dean mother fucking Ambrose and his gas mask.

I am hard on AEW when they deserve it, but this fucking company will never get any credit for anything they do from some people. Thats why we get people trolling this section with their bullshit Kiwi Cassidy accounts.


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## LongPig666 (Mar 27, 2019)

The op is wrong. Moxley is anything but mediocre; great promo, presence and character. Along with a couple of others he has shown a high consistency of quality out and in ring through the pandemic. A pleasure to watch. 

And Moxley hasn't been beaten by girl in a heavy weight championship match!


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## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

Moxley is one of the best promos in the business and good in the ring. He's been a success in AEW, was a good champion during a global pandemic, and can mix it up with a variety of wrestlers.

Every day there is a 'so-and-so sucks' thread on here and some do suck, but Moxley does not suck. I'd rather watch Moxley with two broken arms and legs than Rollins.


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

All Moxley has done since coming to AEW is have great matches and cut great promos.

His tope suicida is shit though


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## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

If Moxley is so great, then why does 99% of his matches involve brawling around the ring or in the stands, blood, foreign objects and other garbage? Answer; because he´s not a great wrestler.
He can cut promos like only a few other people in AEW, but his in-ring work is subpar so he resort to garbage wrestling every time. The match last week where he teamed up with Fenix and Pac really exposed how limited he is. Some people like his limited ring-style, but I´m not a fan.. There´s a reason why wrestling involves a ring.


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## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

@yeahright What were your views on Foley? He almost never kept a match in the ring, nor did a lot of other revered legends.

Also, if memory serves me right, Moxley's title matches against Cage and MJF were pretty straight-up wrestling. His match with Chris Dickinson was almost entirely grappling and strikes.


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

yeahright2 said:


> If Moxley is so great, then why does 99% of his matches involve brawling around the ring or in the stands, blood, foreign objects and other garbage? Answer; because he´s not a great wrestler.
> He can cut promos like only a few other people in AEW, but his in-ring work is subpar so he resort to garbage wrestling every time. The match last week where he teamed up with Fenix and Pac really exposed how limited he is. Some people like his limited ring-style, but I´m not a fan.. There´s a reason why wrestling involves a ring.


I think he's trying to replicate the 90s main event style. Personally, I find it exciting


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## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

yeahright2 said:


> If Moxley is so great, then why does 99% of his matches involve brawling around the ring or in the stands, blood, foreign objects and other garbage? Answer; because he´s not a great wrestler.
> He can cut promos like only a few other people in AEW, but his in-ring work is subpar so he resort to garbage wrestling every time. The match last week where he teamed up with Fenix and Pac really exposed how limited he is. Some people like his limited ring-style, but I´m not a fan.. There´s a reason why wrestling involves a ring.


Not putting them on the same level, but some of the biggest wrestling stars in the world were shitty pro wrestlers in the ring. Hes a brawler. Thats just his style. Not everyone has to be the same clone of each other where they do 100 moves 10 minutes into a match. On top of that, his style suits him.


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## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

Good mic skills, good charisma, not a good in ring talent nor good at using psychology but for what it's worth he brings more to the table in this company, than 70 percent of AEW


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## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The whole “he’s a bad wrestler because most of his matches involves brawling and blood” is one of the dumbest arguments I’ve seen throw out against him. Especially when that’s not all his matches are usually. He does a great job of telling a story in most of his matches and that’s what wins me over when it comes to him. Plus usually there’s some technical wrestling thrown in his matches as well. It’s not always “5 move countering sequence, big move, near fall, kick out, repeat” but it is there if you’ve actually watched his matches.

Plus, and this is a bigger point, AEW needs as much variety with its in ring product as it can get. You have so many wrestlers wrestle very similar matches/styles, that Mox provides said variety. Now I understand that considering the former is probably what brought a lot of people to AEW, that the latter won’t appeal to them and it’s why Moxley is rated so low to them. And while I don’t think you should have a show with matches that are 90% of the time like Moxley’s matches, you also can’t do that with matches that are 90% of the time like Omega’s matches. Which is what they do, and plenty will like it, but I’d personally like to see more variety (not to say it’s a bad style, just need to see more than just that).


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## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

Klitschko said:


> @cassidy
> 
> 
> Not putting them on the same level, but some of the biggest wrestling stars in the world were shitty pro wrestlers in the ring. Hes a brawler. Thats just his style. Not everyone has to be the same clone of each other where they do 100 moves 10 minutes into a match. On top of that, his style suits him.


I wasn´t a big fan of Austin wrestling either (I know that´s who you´re thinking of). There´s a reason why he was named "The Ringmaster" at first, he was actually that good. Austin post injury had to limit his style, but he more than made up for it with his character. Moxley does not.
You can say it fits his style.. But as Cornette would say it "The balding plumber" has this style because he can´t do anything else.


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## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

yeahright2 said:


> I wasn´t a big fan of Austin wrestling either (I know that´s who you´re thinking of). There´s a reason why he was named "The Ringmaster" at first, he was actually that good. Austin post injury had to limit his style, but he more than made up for it with his character. Moxley does not.
> You can say it fits his style.. But as Cornette would say it "The balding plumber" has this style because he can´t do anything else.


I get ya. Different opinions. But I do think he can wrestle a nice a style without all the brawling elements if he wants too. He likes that style in AEW because it suits him more, but he had some good technical matches against the likes of AJ and Rollins when he was in the WWE. So its not like he doesn't know how to do it.


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## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

Klitschko said:


> I get ya. Different opinions. But I do think he can wrestle a nice a style without all the brawling elements if he wants too. He likes that style in AEW because it suits him more, but he had some good technical matches against the likes of AJ and Rollins when he was in the WWE. So its not like he doesn't know how to do it.


How hard is it to have good technical matches against AJ or Rollins, who both are considered among the best of this generation?
I don´t actually have any problems with him wrestling that style, but unless you´re SCSA, it´s not a main talent style in a serious "sports based" promotion.. And there we have it again -AEW said something without considering the consequences, and people hold them to it.


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> This is gonna be really unpopular but Ambrose > Moxley. I'll take him getting a needle up the bum over this shit. He's the same character now that he was in WWE except he's actually allowed to swear. He's still done plenty of goofy and hokey shit in AEW, which is what he complained about in WWE, was extremely ungrateful for the platform Vince gave him even after Moxley shit the fucking bed as the top champion.


LOL are you serious with this post? How has he shit the bed as champion? What hokey shit has he done in AEW? Please do tell.

Moxley comes in hot and puts on a crazy unsanctioned match with Omega, he then has a great feud with Jericho win the gold, he then defends it in 2 great matches with Brian Cage and Brodie Lee. Then he goes on to give MJF the best match of his career. He then puts on another great blood feud with Eddie Kingston, a feud that has resulted in some of the best back and forth promos I have heard in a long time. Then goes on to put on another great match with Omega at Winter Is Coming. Then we have last night where he performed well once again. In between all of that, the guy has cut awesome promos and has been extremely over.

How could his Dean Ambrose character possibly be better than what he has done as Jon Moxley in his first year in AEW? You rather watch him take needles up the ass over everything that happened at Winter Is Coming? You rather watch him job out to Lesnar in 5 minutes over watching him put on a banger with MJF or Eddie Kingston? You rather hear him cut promos about injections and the audience being "smelly" over all the intense, passionate promos we have heard all year? His promos are night and day from WWE it's not just a matter of him "swearing more". LOL I feel like some of you are so incapable of giving AEW credit that you unconsciously just spout a bunch of nonsense that you yourselves may not even truly believe.

Wrestling fans man...now the Moxley hate begins lol Omega is next up I guess?


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## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

All of that is true @Prosper. but its AEW, so we got to shit on it and say that everything and everyone was better in WWE.


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## imscotthALLIN (Feb 18, 2015)

He looks like a pirate with two wooden legs when he wrestles. Cornette’s nickname for him is pretty fitting. Can’t stand the guy, can’t stand Renee either.


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## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

yeahright2 said:


> How hard is it to have good technical matches against AJ or Rollins, who both are considered among the best of this generation?
> I don´t actually have any problems with him wrestling that style, but unless you´re SCSA, it´s not a main talent style in a serious "sports based" promotion.. And there we have it again -AEW said something without considering the consequences, and people hold them to it.


There has been plenty of matches that AJ and Rollins have had that were not that good. It takes 2 to tango. It doesnt mean that a match will be a classic the moment one or those guys is involved. 

And honestly, this is preferences. But Moxley's style of wrestling was showcased during the biggest boom periods of pro wrestling. I would rather take that over the geeks wrestling for a geek audience and the approval of Meltzer for a 5 star match rating in a serious sports based promotion.


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## Brad Boyd (Jan 28, 2020)

TheDraw said:


> It's clear that people want to like this guy for some strange reason despite his work being mediocre at best. If anybody came out of tonight looking like a star it was Lance Archer.
> 
> Moxley is an absolute sloppy worker that comes off looking like a mouth breathing window licker in matches. Tripping over himself and trying way too hard to play the psycho when it's clearly not him.
> 
> ...


I barely watch impact but honestly from what I've seen of Sami Callihan he is much more convincing to me. Decent talker and I really enjoyed the barbwire match at their most recent PPV. He's almost everything Mox should be and Mox is anything but A BADASS. He has this rugged edgy look but he can't even get a solid of hold of his own character to come across as anything but cheesy to me. The man is just overrated af. I can't get into him.


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Klitschko said:


> All of that is true @Prosper. but its AEW, so we got to shit on it and say that everything and everyone was better in WWE.


I mean I can understand if you think his character doesn't come off as "badass" enough, that is subjective, but to say he has had a bad title run in AEW or that he was better as Dean Ambrose just comes off as completely ingenuine. Moxley has been outstanding.


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## Brad Boyd (Jan 28, 2020)

Prosper said:


> LOL are you serious with this post? How has he shit the bed as champion? What hokey shit has he done in AEW? Please do tell.
> 
> Moxley comes in hot and puts on a crazy unsanctioned match with Omega, he then has a great feud with Jericho win the gold, he then defends it in 2 great matches with Brian Cage and Brodie Lee. Then he goes on to give MJF the best match of his career. He then puts on another great blood feud with Eddie Kingston, a feud that has resulted in some of the best back and forth promos I have heard in a long time. Then goes on to put on another great match with Omega at Winter Is Coming. Then we have last night where he performed well once again. In between all of that, the guy has cut awesome promos and has been extremely over.
> 
> ...


Moxley has his share of detractors. There is nothing beginning here. Honestly Eddie Kingston and MJF outshine Mox character and mic skills wise. They carried Moxs feuds. Moxley could have been given a lot better angles and time to cut promos but he's not a great talker to me at all. Average at best.


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## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Brad Boyd said:


> I barely watch impact but honestly from what I've seen of Sami Callihan he is much more convincing to me. Decent talker and I really enjoyed the barbwire match at their most recent PPV. He's almost everything Mox should be and Mox is anything but A BADASS. He has this rugged edgy look but he can't even get a solid of hold of his own character to come across as anything but cheesy to me. The man is just overrated af. I can't get into him.


I like Callihan, but its hard to be a badass when you're half the height of Tessa Blanchard and look like a mini Kevin Owens that tried on Roman's Shield outfit.


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Brad Boyd said:


> Moxley has his share of detractors. There is nothing beginning here. Honestly Eddie Kingston and MJF outshine Mox character and mic skills wise. They carried Moxs feuds. Moxley could have been given a lot better angles and time to cut promos but he's not a great talker to me at all. Average at best.


I disagree. I think Moxley is great on the mic. After watching this promo below, you thought Kingston carried the feud alone? They both killed it in their face-off. MJF is better on the mic but Mox had his share of great promos in their feud as well.


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## themachoprince (Jan 15, 2021)

MOXLEY is way better than seth or roman but still is kinda mediocre


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## HugoCortez (Mar 7, 2019)

yeahright2 said:


> How hard is it to have good technical matches against AJ or Rollins, who both are considered among the best of this generation?


Neither AJ nor Rollins are technical based wrestlers let alone the best of this generation. They are athletic and acrobatic as fuck (esp AJ) and have a vast arsenal, but they aren't remarkably fluid or creative grapplers on the mat nor interesting at working holds on their opponents' body parts.

For real, stop using technician to refer to a good in ring worker. Wrestling has evolved a ton stylistically since the mid 70s to the point there are tons of good workers who each had their own style with its fortes and limitations.


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## Brad Boyd (Jan 28, 2020)

Prosper said:


> I disagree. I think Moxley is great on the mic. After watching this promo below, you thought Kingston carried the feud alone? They both killed it in their face-off. MJF is better on the mic but Mox had his share of great promos in their feud as well.


I don't think he was too out of place in these feuds. MJF and Kingston outshine Mox on the mic though easily. He pales in comparison. My issue with Mox is him not really knowing what his character is when he's cutting promos. Everytime he puts on this "cool guy" persona it feels so forced. He's actually better in segments when he's bouncing off other opponents.


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## troyag93 (Apr 9, 2016)

He doesn't suck , he's just a disappointment. I heard how fantastic he was on the Mic and that WWE was just holding him back. He was going to show us his Character and Mic work. Jon Moxley is almost the same as Dean Ambrose and his mic work is ok.


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## Undertaker23RKO (Jun 11, 2011)

Mox doesn't suck. However, he lacks the intensity he had from his first few months in AEW and that's a huge bummer.


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Brad Boyd said:


> I don't think he was too out of place in these feuds. MJF and Kingston outshine Mox on the mic though easily. He pales in comparison. My issue with Mox is him not really knowing what his character is when he's cutting promos. Everytime he puts on this "cool guy" persona it feels so forced. He's actually better in segments when he's bouncing off other opponents.


I can definitely agree that MJF and Kingston are better overall on the mic but I have really enjoyed all of Mox's promos in AEW. Some of them do come off as less serious as they should at times but that's not really a bad thing IMO. Characters should be more dynamic and they should mix it up from time to time but not really lose the base to their character, which I think Mox has done well. McIntyre for example only cuts happy promos but if they were to mix in some of the badass promos he cut before winning the title I would like him more.


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## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The thing with Kingston and MJF is they’re heels with great characters. Moxley kept up with them as a face, which is tough to do considering they had the advantage of being heels, plus how good they naturally are on the mic. Moxley is around their level though, and I think a case can be made for him being better.


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## AthleticGirth (Jul 25, 2020)

Mox is doing well in his spot as a top guy, both on the mic and in the ring. He's got that everyman thing going on but the audience watching still knows he can stretch them. He's a loner, driven by emotion, fearless - yeah a lot of that's drawn from Stone Cold, but so what ? It makes for a compelling character fans want to see.


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

*His promos are the only things keeping him tolerable. His title reign was actually protected by featuring him in matches as minimally as possible. His no selling is unbearable.*


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## greasykid1 (Dec 22, 2015)

Make up your minds, fellas.

You are saying that Moxley isn't the "Wildman", but then immediately following up with "his matches are all gimmick brawl matches with blood and weapons".

These two statements contradict each other. What do you want form him? Technical masterpieces or violent brawls? Cos he's doing great with the brawls if you ask me - and no one ever said Moxley was a ring master. The reason that "Ambrose" was always underwhelming was that his "wild" character didn't match the straightforward, tame wrestling forced on him in WWE.

In AEW, he is the Moxley of old. He has the charisma, he has the promo skills, and he has a great, unique brawling style. I don't know what people are watching, but it can't be the same matches as me, because he is massively different in AEW than he was in WWE.

Once again, we just have a bunch of people shitting on the popular thing because that's the "cool" thing to do. Well, I don't give 2 shits what people think of my opinion. My opinion is that Moxley is an excellent character, a worth main event champion, and I'm totally happy with his progress in AEW thus far.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

TheDraw said:


> It's clear that people want to like this guy for some strange reason despite his work being mediocre at best. If anybody came out of tonight looking like a star it was Lance Archer.
> 
> Moxley is an absolute sloppy worker that comes off looking like a mouth breathing window licker in matches. Tripping over himself and trying way too hard to play the psycho when it's clearly not him.
> 
> ...


Sami Callahan is god awful LMFAO guy is horrible the second you elevated him at all,let alone above moxley you lost your marbles.

I've yet to see a single match that slightly impressed me from sami,plus his crackhead voice doesn't help.


----------



## Stellar (May 30, 2016)

So this is about knocking one wrestler down (Moxley) to build another up (Callihan). Gotcha.

I have no issue with either guy but I sure wouldn't question peoples opinions of whether they like or dislike any of them either. We all have different tastes. Both guys are fine to me.


----------



## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

Klitschko said:


> There has been plenty of matches that AJ and Rollins have had that were not that good. It takes 2 to tango. It doesnt mean that a match will be a classic the moment one or those guys is involved.
> 
> And honestly, this is preferences. But Moxley's style of wrestling was showcased during the biggest boom periods of pro wrestling. I would rather take that over the geeks wrestling for a geek audience and the approval of Meltzer for a 5 star match rating in a serious sports based promotion.


AJ and Rollins have had matches that were not that good (didn´t live up to expectations), but I don´t remember any matches they´ve had that was straight up bad.. And I don´t even like Rollins
I want a little bit of both. The spotfests where everyone just want to get in their shit and do spots just for the sake of doing spots to look "kewl" is just as boring as always resorting to "garbage wrestling"
A hardcore match can be great if it´s the culmination of a feud but when that´s 99% of the matches a wrestler has, it becomes stale and boring.


----------



## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

HugoCortez said:


> Neither AJ nor Rollins are technical based wrestlers let alone the best of this generation. They are athletic and acrobatic as fuck (esp AJ) and have a vast arsenal, but they aren't remarkably fluid or creative grapplers on the mat nor interesting at working holds on their opponents' body parts.
> 
> For real, stop using technician to refer to a good in ring worker. Wrestling has evolved a ton stylistically since the mid 70s to the point there are tons of good workers who each had their own style with its fortes and limitations.


I wasn´t the one who started talking about technical matches, that was @Klitschko . Styles and Rollins aren´t technical wrestlers like Bret Hart or Dean Malenko, but they can wrestle a technical style -Especially AJ if the opponent does that. That´s his strength.. He can adapt to and match whomever he´s in the ring with, but Moxley can´t.
And yes, Styles is the best of this generation. There´s a reason why PWI named him wrestler of the year 3 consecutive times.


----------



## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

3venflow said:


> @yeahright What were your views on Foley? He almost never kept a match in the ring, nor did a lot of other revered legends.
> 
> Also, if memory serves me right, Moxley's title matches against Cage and MJF were pretty straight-up wrestling. His match with Chris Dickinson was almost entirely grappling and strikes.


Foley was great, because his character was equally great. I liked every version of Foley except Dude Love.
But like someone said -Wrestling has evolved. Foley with that type of ring-work today would only get him so far. Foley did the incredible stunts besides his weak in-ring work, that was impressive at the time.
In comparison, SCSA was just a brawler who went outside the ring, and to me that was kinda boring, because it always happened.. Foley didn´t get thrown of cages or got his head smashed every time he was in a match.
SCSA had the character, and he was lucky enough to work with Mr. Mcmahon


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Actually funny enough Rollins had a bad match with Moxley at the end of 2018 I think. Plus some bad ones with Reigns. His matches with Lesnar were weak. So was his Mania match with Triple H.

Don’t get me wrong, I think Rollins is great in the ring. AJ as well of course. But guess what? 95% of their matches are similar, just a different style than Moxley’s. Occasionally they can get more hardcore, much like Moxley can do more technical wrestling than he usually does. But all these guys have their formula. All are great sellers, storytellers, and top tier in their respective styles. All three of them have great matches with a variety of opponents. All three of them have bad matches too (though for AJ I struggle to think of one, but I’d be surprised if there aren’t several out there in last few years).


----------



## ClintDagger (Feb 1, 2015)

He’s fine as the #3 in a trio if his gimmick is that he’s a whack job. It doesn’t work as a main event gimmick and he’s not believable as a bad ass.


----------



## Chris22 (Jan 7, 2010)

I never liked Moxley when he was in WWE performing as Dean Ambrose, Seth Rollins was my favourite Shield member. I never really saw anything in him at all but ever since he's been on AEW I've really enjoyed watching him. He's still not a favourite of mines but I can definitely appreciate him now. I have no problem with the way Moxley wrestles now either, it sets him apart from everyone else on Dynamite if anything.

The match on Dynamite this week was the most I've ever enjoyed Archer too so that was good.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Verbatim17 said:


> It’s because he does not do anything in his matches to suggest he genuinely is a wildman.
> 
> If you watch his matches with Juice Robinson from BOSJ 2019 and his match with Tomohiro Ishii at G1 29, he actually behaves like how a wildman character in wrestling is supposed to act.
> 
> Moxley’s presentation in AEW looks PG next to his NJPW presentation. The only ones that are genuinely impressed with everything Moxley does in AEW are WWE stans that are only familiar with his WWE work.


What about the people who are impressed but never watched his wwe work?


----------



## Pentagon Senior (Nov 16, 2019)

It is hilarious how posters here turn on wrestlers so quickly and concentrate on the negatives. 

Many of history's top stars weren't great in the ring but they pulled it off with charisma and mic skills. Mox is great in those respects. Is he amazing in ring? No, but more than competent. Are his expressions OTT at times? Yes, they can be.

Overall though he's a very good all rounder without being one of the greats. So many places AEW can go with him in the future too. I'm stoked he's in AEW he's doing a fine job from my perspective.

Edit - I can't get over the 'he was better in WWE' comments especially. He was treated as a joke there the last couple years whereas he's presented as legitimate and was a dominant champ in AEW.


----------



## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

Dark Emperor said:


> There is a reason why he's was the least successful Shield member in their singles run. He's just not as good as the other two. A, step below.
> 
> Vince gets it.


He's better than Rollins and Reigns, but that's not saying much because those two aren't any good either. The biggest reason for the WWE losing more than half of their audience in the last 6 or 7ish years is because of the all the vanilla spot monkey midgets on the roster, and the pushing of the Shield down everyones throats.


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

yeahright2 said:


> AJ and Rollins have had matches that were not that good (didn´t live up to expectations), but I don´t remember any matches they´ve had that was straight up bad.. And I don´t even like Rollins
> I want a little bit of both. The spotfests where everyone just want to get in their shit and do spots just for the sake of doing spots to look "kewl" is just as boring as always resorting to "garbage wrestling"
> A hardcore match can be great if it´s the culmination of a feud but when that´s 99% of the matches a wrestler has, it becomes stale and boring.


But his matches are not 99% hardcore wrestling. Just because they go to the outside to throw a few punches or someone gets Irish whipped into the barricade doesn't mean it was a hardcore match. His title defense included matches against Cage, Darby, MJF, Omega and none of those were not hardcore matches. People just overreact to prove their point in my opinion. But overall it was nice debating with you yearight, even though neither one of us will change their opinion.


----------



## HankHill_85 (Aug 31, 2011)

I dig Moxley. It's cool if others don't.


----------



## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

Klitschko said:


> But his matches are not 99% hardcore wrestling. Just because they go to the outside to throw a few punches or someone gets Irish whipped into the barricade doesn't mean it was a hardcore match. His title defense included matches against Cage, Darby, MJF, Omega and none of those were not hardcore matches. People just overreact to prove their point in my opinion. But overall it was nice debating with you yearight, even though neither one of us will change their opinion.


As long as people keep it civilized, I´ll debate everyone


----------



## MoxAsylum (Jan 9, 2020)

Trash post. Moxley is a star, your thread sucks


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

I’m going to defend Moxley a little: He was credited for putting together a lot of The Shield’s matches. I don’t know if he just can’t do it for singles or he became disillusioned, but he hasn’t been able to show the same psychology as a top level star.

I LOVED the guy from about 2013-2016, then it all fell off a cliff. He fucked the Brock stuff, the Austin interview and dropped the ball when he was given SmackDown. People will blame all other factors, but you need to make yourself valuable, you need to act like a star and AJ Styles stole the show out from under Mox. Someone shone.

I don’t like the hardcore stuff. It’s obnoxious and reeks of immaturity to me. Very ECW and “Look how COOL this is? Isn’t this COOL?!” Grow up and tell a story.

His selling sucks and always has. It’s a big part of why he never worked as a true main event face.

He’s made an effort to look good without a shirt on. He’s lost his hair, but that isn’t his fault. I think his presence could mean more if it all came together in the ring. He really is like someone pretending to be Stone Cold Steve Austin. You’ve got to deliver that real fight feel when you’re doing that to deliver.

His promos are excellent in terms of content and delivery, but they also suffer from repetitiveness and some cliches. Especially when the ring work doesn’t accentuate them.

Weak as a “top guy,” but he has talent. He would actually benefit from working with a guy like Paul Heyman to bring out his best.


----------



## Kalashnikov (Dec 30, 2010)

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> The Ambrose vs Triple H match is probably Moxley's best match of his career in terms of non gimmick matches. I hate Triple H as a booker but as a talent? He's great at building feuds up, and that's exactly what he did with Dean, he made him look like a legitimate threat to the title.


Hell yeah, exactly right. Even though I would've bet money on Triple H vs Reigns for the title at WM (that was always the plan, clear as day), they somehow managed to make me believe Ambrose had a shot.


----------



## Dmight (Aug 31, 2016)

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> The Ambrose vs Triple H match is probably Moxley's best match of his career in terms of non gimmick matches. I hate Triple H as a booker but as a talent? He's great at building feuds up, and that's exactly what he did with Dean, he made him look like a legitimate threat to the title.


Yep. I'm not a fan of HHH, but I think nobody can deny that he is a great wrestler because it takes HUGE talent to get a good match out of Ambrose/Moxley.
Also, Ambrose used some classic submissions like Sharpshooter and Figure 4 in that match, which I think fit him more than his own moveset.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Moxley/HHH worked as well as it did because I think the two have great chemistry, and it allowed Moxley show more of his technical side. If anything I think the match showed how great Moxley is in that regard. And we’ve seen him incorporate it into his AEW title matches, which has been great.

But the Triple H thing is down to chemistry. Chemistry HHH didn’t have with Rollins or Reigns because they’re not as good on a technical grounded level as Moxley is.


----------



## The Golden Shovel (Jan 19, 2017)

His mannerisms are like the Fonz on meth.


----------



## yeahbaby! (Jan 27, 2014)

Get your point but doesn't help KENTA is tiny with a Dad bod.


----------



## yeahbaby! (Jan 27, 2014)

I'm a fan of Mox, he's money IMO. He along with Kenny have the best shot of taking AEW to the next level. Only thing I would change is less pre-recorded vignettes and more in-ring promos.


----------



## The Golden Shovel (Jan 19, 2017)

The way he sold the kenta GTS sums up his career.


----------



## Gwi1890 (Nov 7, 2019)

How many threads does Jon Moxley have now?


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

Outlaw91 said:


> True, Death Rider Mox is the best. Just like NJPW is better than AEW and WWE.
> 
> LOL at the people suggesting Ambrose is better than Moxley. He's not that good in AEW but still... Moxley is much better than those 2 cringe idiots Rollins and Reigns.


Sorry but Shield 2012-14 Dean Ambrose blows away AEW Moxley. He was fucking James Dean cool at that point coming into arena on helicopter and people would hanging on every word he would say week by week in the bowels of arena then dissect each word and it's meaning. Christ just him saying "nope" went viral. 

NJPW book the guy as a midcard so how can you define that as best. They don't see him as a mainevent guy like they did Styles or even Jericho. 

And lol at Rollins and Reigns as cringe. Reigns is biggest star on the planet and Hollywood will be calling after WWE.


----------



## Outlaw91 (Mar 31, 2011)

validreasoning said:


> Sorry but Shield 2012-14 Dean Ambrose blows away AEW Moxley. He was fucking James Dean cool at that point coming into arena on helicopter and people would hanging on every word he would say week by week in the bowels of arena then dissect each word and it's meaning. Christ just him saying "nope" went viral.
> 
> NJPW book the guy as a midcard so how can you define that as best. They don't see him as a mainevent guy like they did Styles or even Jericho.
> 
> And lol at Rollins and Reigns as cringe. Reigns is biggest star on the planet and Hollywood will be calling after WWE.


NJPW booked Moxley as strong as they could for a guy that can work for them a limited number of dates. Except for the G1 where no one is winning every match, he won every match he had there including winning the US title in his debut match. Did you even watch his matches and segments there? 
Yes, he's better than any of those 2 and both are cringe, especially Rollins. 
It's ironic that a guy who uses Lou Thesz avatar can call Reigns "biggest star on the planet",the shit you take must be pretty good. 
Reigns definitely can get a couple of cameo appearances in some of cousin Dwayne's movies, this totally can happen.


----------



## SPCDRI (Mar 15, 2010)

He wants to be a brawler type, but I don't think his punches and kicks and stomps are that good and the stuff that he does with knees, giving them and selling them, is really bad. Knees are this guy's kryptonite or something. It exposes him so much that he takes them poorly, sells them poorly and delivers them poorly. His knees are pretty slow and he shows tons of space between the knees, tons of "air." I like the guy but he really needs to tighten the fundamentals up a lot for what he's trying to do.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

Mox is limited in the ring but he's been damaged more than any other by the lack of crowds, His character fed on that.


----------



## TheDraw (Jun 27, 2019)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> The whole “he’s a bad wrestler because most of his matches involves brawling and blood” is one of the dumbest arguments I’ve seen throw out against him. Especially when that’s not all his matches are usually. He does a great job of telling a story in most of his matches and that’s what wins me over when it comes to him. Plus usually there’s some technical wrestling thrown in his matches as well. It’s not always “5 move countering sequence, big move, near fall, kick out, repeat” but it is there if you’ve actually watched his matches.
> 
> Plus, and this is a bigger point, AEW needs as much variety with its in ring product as it can get. You have so many wrestlers wrestle very similar matches/styles, that Mox provides said variety. Now I understand that considering the former is probably what brought a lot of people to AEW, that the latter won’t appeal to them and it’s why Moxley is rated so low to them. And while I don’t think you should have a show with matches that are 90% of the time like Moxley’s matches, you also can’t do that with matches that are 90% of the time like Omega’s matches. Which is what they do, and plenty will like it, but I’d personally like to see more variety (not to say it’s a bad style, just need to see more than just that).


I stand by my opinion. Sami Callihan is the most disrespected wrestler in the business. One of the few guys that can actually draw real heat.

If they do match up again everyone will be singing the same tune as me. Moxley's flaws would be exposed vs Sami because Sami is basically Moxley 2.0.

What does Moxley have over Callihan other than height and look which is debatable? 

- Who looks like more of a psycho? Sami

Who sounds more believable and looks more believable as a psycho deranged but? Sami

- Who is better in the ring? Sami

Even Moxley fans say he sucks in the ring, meanwhile you hear nothing but positives about Callihan. 

I'm sorry but he doesn't have the good fortune of being carried to decent matches to put on his resume by the token Japanese wrestler in NJPW like Moxley does. Neither does he have Meltzer in his back pocket to give the predictable 4.5 or 5 star rating. 

Every match Sami has is solid. It's not a bunch of crappy matches and then a few decent one s a year like Moxley. 

I'm not gonna list matches. There's enough video online to quickly see the difference between the two.

I get that Moxley has a place and he does have something that people care about. That's all that really matters really regardless of my opinion. But there is no denying that he is vastly overrated.

I find it funny that guys like Moxley get free passes for sucking in the ring on a consistent basis and gets put over for his promo ability and yet Hogan who basically represents that type of limited wrester and did it better than anybody else gets blasted for it.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

TheDraw said:


> I stand by my opinion. Sami Callihan is the most disrespected wrestler in the business. One of the few guys that can actually draw real heat.
> 
> If they do match up again everyone will be singing the same tune as me. Moxley's flaws would be exposed vs Sami because Sami is basically Moxley 2.0.
> 
> ...


I don't know much of anything about Sami Callihan. I don't really care at this point either. I just know Moxley's a great all around talent. Including being very good in the ring. I'd say if anything, he's actually underrated.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Dark Emperor said:


> There is a reason why he's was the least successful Shield member in their singles run. He's just not as good as the other two. A, step below.
> 
> Vince gets it.


This is spot-on. Ambrose was my favourite Shield guy, but 2016 really put that into perspective. 



The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> This place turns on everybody lol.
> 
> If this were like 2000-01 we'd have threads about how Austin sucked.


Except Austin is one of the most talented of all-time. Moxley is not. 



Klitschko said:


> I'm going to be honest and say that this is 100% total bullshit. First of all. He didn't shit the bed as the top champion. He got drafted to Smackdown and instantly Smackdowns ratings shot up. And not just a one time occurrence. It was like that every single week with him as the champion. They went from around 2-2.2 million viewers to around 2.4-2.8 for the few months he was champion. Thats a great increase.
> 
> Second. Your reasoning for why Ambrose is better then Moxley is because "well Moxley also does some stupid stuff"? For every dumb thing he has done in AEW, there is about 10 worse things he did in WWE. Jobbing to a plant, a hologram, a television. Jobbing to Lesnar. And I mean the true definition of jobbing. Not an exaggeration. Being buried and losing feuds constantly. Had that stupid meth head look where he looked like he was 15 pounds away from Darby Allin weight. Constantly losing. Get fucking screwed over by Rollins constantly and being Roman's bitch. Add in the cringe pg promos because he had to hold it back and the amazing gas mask gimmick they put him in.
> 
> ...


SmackDown always sees a boost with a split. Ambrose was completely outshone by AJ Styles. Fans, for the first time ever, split attention away from Ambrose. He lost them to the heel.

Ambrose himself was treated fine unless you wanted to see him tippy-top until the Bane stuff. The Brock shit was his fault. People really don’t understand that lol. But the reason the guy is over is becsuse



3venflow said:


> @yeahright What were your views on Foley? He almost never kept a match in the ring, nor did a lot of other revered legends.
> 
> Also, if memory serves me right, Moxley's title matches against Cage and MJF were pretty straight-up wrestling. His match with Chris Dickinson was almost entirely grappling and strikes.


Foley is one of the all-time great wrestling psychologists and sellers. Just because a guy goes into tacks, it doesn’t mean he’s Mick Foley.



Geeee said:


> I think he's trying to replicate the 90s main event style. Personally, I find it exciting


He should try actually watching that style and seeing that the guys could throw punches and sell.

Man, I don’t even hate Moxley, but some of these defences of him are just ludicrous. The guy’s _work_ is his weak spot. His main event _work_. He’s missing the stuff that made the top brawlers great brawlers.


----------



## Moonlight_drive (Oct 8, 2008)

He is just okey. Better than most AEW wrestlers, but also kind of a geek.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Outlaw91 said:


> NJPW booked Moxley as strong as they could for a guy that can work for them a limited number of dates. Except for the G1 where no one is winning every match, he won every match he had there including winning the US title in his debut match. Did you even watch his matches and segments there?
> Yes, he's better than any of those 2 and both are cringe, especially Rollins.
> It's ironic that a guy who uses Lou Thesz avatar can call Reigns "biggest star on the planet",the shit you take must be pretty good.
> Reigns definitely can get a couple of cameo appearances in some of cousin Dwayne's movies, this totally can happen.


Reigns is the biggest star on the biggest show. His work has been amazing lately. He’s easily the best thing in wrestling. He looks like a star, acts like a star, talks like a star, wrestles like a star. The ratings for SmackDown returned from a 1.8/1.9 dip to 2.1/2.2 levels with him around. He’s worth several hundred thousand viewers on his own. That’s in the ocean, not a small pond. He’s the closest thing wrestling has to an actual star (that isn’t someone tangentially related to it now, like Cena or The Rock).

Denying this, at this point, is just a little silly. He’s been pushed for 6 years and was groomed 3 years before that. It’s gonna amount to something. It just so happens that the performances now match the star power. He’s a top level guy anywhere in the world.


----------



## Outlaw91 (Mar 31, 2011)

The Wood said:


> Reigns is the biggest star on the biggest show. His work has been amazing lately. He’s easily the best thing in wrestling. He looks like a star, acts like a star, talks like a star, wrestles like a star. The ratings for SmackDown returned from a 1.8/1.9 dip to 2.1/2.2 levels with him around. He’s worth several hundred thousand viewers on his own. That’s in the ocean, not a small pond. He’s the closest thing wrestling has to an actual star (that isn’t someone tangentially related to it now, like Cena or The Rock).
> 
> Denying this, at this point, is just a little silly. He’s been pushed for 6 years and was groomed 3 years before that. It’s gonna amount to something. It just so happens that the performances now match the star power. He’s a top level guy anywhere in the world.


If he's worth 200-300k viewers on his own after 7 years of massive, continuous push in the biggest wrestling company in the world then it's no surprise they are doing so good. This really qualifies him for playing in second rated TV shows.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Outlaw91 said:


> If he's worth 200-300k viewers on his own after 7 years of massive, continuous push in the biggest wrestling company in the world then it's no surprise they are doing so good. This really qualifies him for playing in second rated TV shows.


You’ll have to run that point past me again.


----------



## Necrolust (Mar 4, 2015)

Geeee said:


> All Moxley has done since coming to AEW is have great matches and cut great promos.
> 
> His tope suicida is shit though


I agree. Most tope suicidas are awful; slow and like a spear from Edge; looks like a hug. Only one that does it right it Darby. The speed and that he twists his body to actually use it as a weapon, hitting people with his back/elbow makes it fantastic. That’s usually a mark out moment for me.


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

OK boomer


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Outlaw91 said:


> If he's worth 200-300k viewers on his own after 7 years of massive, continuous push in the biggest wrestling company in the world then it's no surprise they are doing so good. This really qualifies him for playing in second rated TV shows.


Not to mention numbers are still in general down big year over year for Smackdown. Reigns is the biggest star in wrestling, but he’s the only one that’s been consistently pushed as a star for 6 years. And the best he has to show for it is a small bump from a down period last year after pandemic started. And frankly, Reigns work is grossly overrated as is.

Moxley’s reigns on top, both as WWE Champion, and AEW champion, were great. From an in ring standpoint his WWE title run wasn’t as good, but he still had some good-great matches. His feud with Ziggler was great, despite the match being underwhelming. His final match of his run against Styles was fantastic. But more so, he carried himself well as champion, and delivered in most cases.

However his AEW run puts that WWE title run to shame. Great feuds, with great promos, with great matches consistently throughout. He delivered and was an excellent top guy that proved his worth. The best title run of last year.


----------



## Christopher Near (Jan 16, 2019)

Callihan is cool but ever since I saw someone say he looked like a lunch lady I cant get it out of my head


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

The Wood said:


> SmackDown always sees a boost with a split. Ambrose was completely outshone by AJ Styles. Fans, for the first time ever, split attention away from Ambrose. He lost them to the heel.
> 
> Ambrose himself was treated fine unless you wanted to see him tippy-top until the Bane stuff. The Brock shit was his fault. People really don’t understand that lol.


But they still did see a boost with him, and he was genuenly received well as the WWE champion of Smackdown at the ttie. Nobody was hating him and shitting on his title reign at the time. Especially because people were just happy it wasn't Reigns. 

And even if he lost attention to AJ, so what? Aj was a great freaking heel during that period, and they produced some great matches together and their storyline was nice too. It doesnt mean that Ambrose instantly shit the bed. But the ratings actually started dropping when AJ took the belt. Not a lot, but they did a bit from memory.

Ambrose was treated fine as a midcared to occasional main eventer, but he has been treated much better in AEW and is a much bigger deal in AEW. Hate to use this term because its usually not true, but its a damn fact that he's treated better in AEW. 

How was the Brock Lesnar thing his fault? There was a ton of interviews done where he was hyped to work with Brock and he had a ton of ideas for their Wrestlemania match, but Brock didn't want to go over anything and just wanted to squash him with suplexes. Thats why the build up had Ambrose pulling out all these crazy weapons and everyone expected something big. The wrestlemania match came and it was just Lesnar throwing Ambrose around for 12 minutes.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Passing Triangles said:


> If he's trying to play a psychopath then being "wild" and "unhinged" is the wrong way to go about it. Psychopaths have extremely limited range of emotion and are not impulsive people in the slightest. It'd be more accurate to state that Jake "the Snake" Roberts is closer to a psychopathic character in wrestling. Calculated, methodical, preemptive, composed, unemotional.
> 
> What Moxley is trying to portray is sociopathic, rather. Impulsive, prone to fits of anger with low impulse control. Psychopaths have high impulse control and come across like every normal person you've met....... Sociopaths stand out.
> 
> ...


Hes not trying to play a psychopath at all. Just trying to play the attentive edgy guy but failing miserably. My sister's cat is more edgy and natural than him


Wwe guys from the past 10 years that are in aew now have proven heavily the flaw in the wwe system and how its screwing all the wrestlers careers. Bunch of robotos.


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## xio4up (Dec 7, 2020)

who ?


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Klitschko said:


> But they still did see a boost with him, and he was genuenly received well as the WWE champion of Smackdown at the ttie. Nobody was hating him and shitting on his title reign at the time. Especially because people were just happy it wasn't Reigns.
> 
> And even if he lost attention to AJ, so what? Aj was a great freaking heel during that period, and they produced some great matches together and their storyline was nice too. It doesnt mean that Ambrose instantly shit the bed. But the ratings actually started dropping when AJ took the belt. Not a lot, but they did a bit from memory.
> 
> ...


But come on, that’s not a fair gauge, lol. Yes, lots of people were happy it wasn’t Reigns (at the time), but I don’t recall opinion being as unanimous as you do. 2016 was a VERY spotty year for Ambrose. Started off _white hot_, jobbed to Brock, shit feud with Jericho, Austin dud, got the belt too late, not the guy on SmackDown. Like, I remember people vividly not thinking it was going to work.

Not sure about the ratings. If true, could it have something to do with the time of year? But I remember hearing AJ did quite well, especially since Cena came back into the mix (probably unfair to credit AJ).

If Ambrose genuinely drew they would have done more with him.

The Brock stuff is just a wrestling thing. There’s being eager and then there’s trying to get your shit in and wanting to do insane/stupid shit that your top star is above and feels is disrespectful you being dogged on. Like it or not, in wrestling, there’s pitching your ideas and there’s pissing someone off. There IS a hierarchy. Ambrose thought he was on Brock’s level. He was not. He was treated by Brock, by Vince, by the WWE as an entity, according to his perceived worth when he went “all in.”

Some people just don’t get this. They’ll just think that Ambrose did nothing wrong and was just trying to be creative and get the best match possible with Brock (which isn’t really the point). If I went to New Japan and started telling Tanahashi how to work, I might find myself having an underwhelming Wrestle Kingdom showcase too. Ambrose should have worked WITH Brock, not AT Brock. If that makes any sense?


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## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Will respond in a bit @The Wood. Good post.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Klitschko said:


> Will respond in a bit @The Wood. Good post.


Thanks! I wasn’t trying to be dickish or anything. Look forward to reading it.


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