# Your 5 Star Match Lists



## tboneangle

What are matches you guys have given 5 stars? heres my list


-Ric Flair(c) vs Sting,NWA Title,NWA Clash Of The Champions

-Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat(c), NWA World Title ,Judges At Ringside,NWA/WCW WrestleWar 1989 

-Bret Hart(c) vs Davey Boy Smith, WWF Intercontinental Title, WWF Summerslam 1992 

-Bret Hart vs Owen Hart, WWF WrestleMania X 

-Razor Ramon(c) vs Shawn Michaels,WWF IC Title,Ladder Match,WWF WrestleMania X 

-Bret Hart(c) vs Shawn Michaels,WWF Title,60 Minute Iron Man Match,WWF Wrestlemania 12 

-Megumi Kudo vs Combat Toyoda,Deathmatch,FMW 5-5-1996 

-Rey Mysterio vs Psychosis,WCW Bash At The Beach 1996

-Bret Hart vs Steve Austin,Submission Match,WWF Wrestlemania 13

-Shawn Michaels(c) vs The Undertaker,WWF Title,Hell In A Cell,WWF Badd Blood 1997 

-Rey Mysterio vs Eddie Guerrero(c),WCW CW Title vs Mask,WCW Halloween Havoc 1997 

-Rob Van Dam(c) vs Jerry Lynn,ECW TV Title,ECW Hardcore Heaven 1999 

-Bret Hart vs Chris Benoit,WCW Nitro 10-4-1999

-Triple H(c) vs Cactus Jack,WWF Title,Street Fight,WWF Royal Rumble 2000 

-Triple H vs Steve Austin,2/3 Falls,WWF No Way Out 2001 

-Edge And Christain vs The Hardy Boyz vs The Dudley Boyz(c),WWF Tag Titles,TLC,WWF WrestleMania X-Seven 

-The Rock(c) vs Steve Austin,WWF Title,NO DQ,WWF WrestleMania X-Seven 

-Kurt Angle vs Shane Mcmahon,Street Fight,WWF King Of The Ring 2001 

-Kurt Angle vs Steve Austin(c),WWF Title,WWF Unforgiven 2001

-Shawn Michaels vs Triple H,Street Fight,WWE Summerslam 2002

-Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit vs Edge and Rey Mysterio,WWE Tag Titles(First),WWE No Mercy 2002 

-Brock Lesnar(c) vs The Undertaker,WWE Title,Hell In A Cell,WWE No Mercy 2002 

-Kurt Angle(c) vs Chris Benoit,WWE Title,WWE Royal Rumble 2003 

-Kurt Angle(c) vs Brock Lesnar,WWE Title,Level Playing Field,WWE WrestleMania XIX 

-Kurt Angle(c) vs Brock Lesnar,WWE Title,WWE Summerslam 2003 

-Kurt Angle(c) vs Brock Lesnar,WWE Title,60 Minute Iron Man Match,WWE Smackdown 9-18-2003 

-Kurt Angle vs Eddie Guerrero(c),WWE Title,WWE WrestleMania XX 

-Brock Lesnar(c) vs Eddie Guerrero,WWE Title,WWE No Way Out 2004

-Triple H(c) vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels,WWE WHC,WWE WrestleMania XX 

-Randy Orton(c) vs Cactus Jack,WWE IC Title,Hardcore Match,WWE Backlash 2004 

-AJ Styles vs Chris Sabin vs Petey Williams(c),TNA X Title,Ultimate X,TNA Final Resolution 2005 

-AJ Styles(c) vs Christopher Daniels,TNA X Title,30 Minute Iron Man Match,TNA Against All Odds 2005 

-Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels,WWE WrestleMania 21 

-John Cena(c) vs JBL,WWE Title,I Quit,WWE Judgment Day 2005 

-AJ Styles vs Matt Hardy,IWC 7-29-2005 

-AJ Styles vs Samoa Joe vs Christopher Daniels(c),TNA X Title,TNA Unbreakable 2005 

-Samoa Joe vs Kenta Kobashi,ROH Joe vs Kobashi

-Kurt Angle(c) vs The Undertaker,WWE WHC,WWE No Way Out 2006 

-Blood Generation vs Do Fixer,ROH Supercard Of Honor 3-31-2006 

-John Cena vs Shawn Michaels,WWE Raw 4-23-2007

-Kurt Angle vs AJ Styles vs Samoa Joe vs Christain Cage vs ???,TNA World Title(First),KOM,TNA Slammiversary 2007 

-Kurt Angle(c) vs Yuji Nagata,IGF Title,Tokyo Dome Show 1-4-2008

-Kurt Angle(c) vs Samoa Joe,TNA Title vs Career,Cage,TNA Lockdown 2008

-Kurt Angle vs Jeff Jarrett,NO DQ,TNA Genesis 2009

-Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels,WWE WrestleMania 25

-Kurt Angle vs Matt Morgan,TNA Bound For Glory 2009

-Kurt Angle vs AJ Styles(c),TNA Title,TNA Impact 1-4-2010 

-Kurt Angle vs Mr Anderson,Cage,Escape Only,TNA Lockdown 2010 

-MCMG(c) vs Beer Money,2/3 Falls,TNA Tag Titles,TNA Whole F'N Show 

-AJ Styles vs Bully Ray,Last Man Standing,TNA Slammiversary IX 2011

-Eddie Edwards(c) vs Davey Richards,ROH Title,ROH Best In The World 2011

-John Cena(c)vs CM Punk,WWE Title-WWE Money In The Bank 2011


Out of the thousands of matches i have seen i have 52 5 star matches. pretty special.

anyway id love to see ur guys's lists


----------



## jawbreaker

Seventeen five star matches featuring Kurt Angle. That's got to be the worst list I've ever seen.

My viewing is nowhere near complete, but here's my ROH list:

Bryan Danielson vs. Paul London, The Epic Encounter
Samoa Joe vs. CM Punk, Joe vs. Punk II
Samoa Joe vs. CM Punk, All-Star Extravaganza II
Davey Richards & Eddie Edwards vs. Bryan Danielson & Tyler Black, Tag Title Classic

There's a big gap in my ROH viewing between May 06 and September 08. Since I haven't seen Danielson/Nigel and Danielson/KENTA in context, I'm not entirely sure they're five stars. 

Of the WWE shit I've seen, I think I'd give the No Mercy 02 tag and Triple H/Michaels/Benoit the full five. My Japan list is embarrassingly incomplete as well. Haven't seen anything I'd give five to from TNA, PWG, etc.


----------



## tboneangle

to each there own. Kurt just been in a lot of my fav matches. i will admit i need to watch some more roh stuff


----------



## Mattyb2266

Ricky Steamboat vs. Randy Savage - WM3
Eddie Guerrero vs. Dean Malenko - Hostile City Showdown '95
Black Tiger II vs. Wild Pegasus - NJPW
Wild Pegasus vs. Great Sasuke - Super J Cup 1994
Misawa & Kobashi vs. Kawada & Taue - AJPW
Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart - WM13
HHH vs. Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels - WM20
Samoa Joe vs. CM Punk - Joe vs. Punk II
Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima - Manhattan Mayhem II
Davey Richards vs. Eddie Edwards - Best in the World 2011

The first ones that come to mind when I think 5 star match.


----------



## SuperDuperSonic

Off the top of my head, hands down, no questions asked:

HHH vs. Benoit vs. HBK (WM20)
Kurt Angle vs. Shawn Michaels (WM21)
Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin (WM13)
Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker (Bad Blood 1997)
Samoa Joe vs. CM Punk (Joe vs. Punk II)
Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA (Glory By Honor V Night 2)
Paul London vs. Bryan Danielson (The Epic Encounter)
Survival of the Fittest Elimination Match (Survival of the Fittest 2004)
Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart (WM10)
Edge/Rey vs. Angle/Benoit (No Mercy 2002)
Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio (Halloween Havoc 1997)
Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat 1989 trilogy
Triple H vs. Cactus Jack (Royal Rumble 2000)
1992 and 2004 Royal Rumble matches
Canadian Stampede main event
Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (6/8/1990)
Low Ki vs. Bryan Danielsion (Round Robin Challenge)

Keep in mind there is so much ***** level shit in puro, the indy's and 80's that I've yet to see.


----------



## smitlick

- Mitsuharu Misawa vs Kenta Kobashi - NOAH - 1/3/03
- Nick Jackson, El Generico & Necro Butcher vs Roderick Strong, Davey Richards & Austin Aries vs Joey Ryan, Chuck Taylor & Kenny Omega - PWG BOLA 08 Night 2 
- 16 Man Cibernetico - CMLL - 18/4/97 
- El Hijo Del Santo & Octagon vs Love Machine & Eddy Guerrero - AAA - 6/11/94 

I haven't exactly been giving out snowflakes for an overly long time so i really only have the most recent stuff that I've watched which is why im compiling my ratings on the blog in my sig... Really need to rewatch a lot of stuff but I doubt I'll ever get to it. ATM i have about 26 DVDs in a pile that i haven't even watched yet with a couple more on the way..


----------



## antoniomare007

I don't like ratings and I've seen way to many awesome stuff to make a definitive list. But from what I can remember, the matches that get the _"it doesn't get any better than this" _treatment would be:


Jushin "Thunder" Liger vs Naoki Sano - 1/30/90
Jushin "Thunder" Liger vs Shinjiro Ohtani - 1997
Pegasus Kid vs Black Tiger II - BOSJ 1996 Semifinals
Shinya Hashimoto vs Nobuhiko Takada - Battle Formation 1996
Shinya Hashimoto vs Hiroshi Hase - 12/13/94
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Hirooki Goto - 2007

Toshiaki Kawada vs Mitsuharu Misawa - 6/3/94 (still the best match I've ever seen)
Jumbo Tsuruta vs Mitsuharu Misawa - 6/8/90
Kenta Kobashi vs Mitsuharu Misawa - 1/20/97
Akira Taue vs Mitsuharu Misawa - 1995 Champions Carnival Final
Kobashi & Misawa vs Holy Demon Army - 6/9/95 
Akiyama & Misawa vs Holy Demon Army - 12/6/96 
Jumbo Tsuruta vs Genichiro Tenryu - 6/5/89
Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenry vs Riki Choshu & Yoshiaki Yatsu - 1/28/86
Terry Funk & Dory Funk vs Abdullah the Butcher & The Sheik - RWTL 1977

Terry Funk vs Ric Flair - Clash Of The Champions IX
Bruiser Brody vs Ric Flair - 2/11/83 (not sure if that date is from the match I'm thinking)
Barry Windham vs Ric Flair - Crocket Cup 1987
Ricky Steamboat vs Ric Flair - ChiTown Rumble 1989
Ricky Steamboat vs Ric Flair - Wrestlewar 1989


Sgt. Slaughter vs Iron Sheik - Boot Camp Match 1984
Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee - Loser Leaves Town 6/6/83
Jerry Lawler vs Austin Idol - Hair vs Hair Steel Cage Match 1987

Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio - Halloween Havoc 1997
Steve Austin vs Bret Hart - Wrestlemania XIII
Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle - Royal Rumble 2003
Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels vs Triple H - Wrestlemania XX

Low Ki vs Bryan Danielson - Round Robin Challenge
Nigel McGuinness vs Bryan Danielson - Unified
KENTA vs Bryan Danielson - Glory By Honor V
Chris Hero vs Bryan Danielson - 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2008




there's more but I'm way to lazy to keep remembering and look for dates


----------



## tboneangle

its hard for me i spend hours a day obsessing on witch matches to give it too. i go so back and forth its crazy


----------



## tboneangle

i think i have too many even ill prolly make some edits


----------



## topper1

Misawa vs Kawada 94
Misawa/Kobashi vs Kawada/Taue June 95
Kobashi vs Hansen 93
Bret vs Austin SS and WM
Rey vs Eddie HH 97
Liger vs Naoki Sano 1990
Liger vs Ohtani
Misawa vs Jumbo
Dragon vs Nigel Unified 
HBK vs Taker BB 97


----------



## Martyn

Flair vs. Funk 1989
Misawa vs. Kawada 1994
Super J Cup 94 Final
Misawa/Kobashi vs. Kawada/Taue 1995 (two matches, I dont remember the dates)
Misawa vs. Kobashi 1997
Kawada vs. Tenryu 2000
Kawada vs. Sasaki 2000
Misawa vs. Kobashi 2003
Kobashi vs. Joe 2005
Kobashi vs. Sasaki 2005
Joe vs. Styles TP 2005
Joe vs. Styles vs. Daniels 2005
Flair vs. Michaels 2008
Angle vs. Anderson 2010


----------



## That Guy

in no particular order just as I remember them.

Kurt Angle vs. Michaels - WM 21
Michaels vs. Undertaker - HIAC
Bret Hart vs. Austin - WM 13
Rey Mysterio vs. Eddie Guerrero - Halloween Havoc 97
Triple H vs. Cactus Jack 2000
John Cena vs. Michaels - Raw
Lesnar vs. Kurt - any of their mathes the whole trilogy was great 
Benoit vs. Kurt - Backlash 2000/2001 can't remember the one that had the 30 min ironman submission only
Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H - Summerslam 2002


----------



## Violent By Design

hmm. I have a top 100 list in construction now, but I think it'd be a pain to determine what 5 stars would be all of a sudden.


----------



## smitlick

i had forgotten to add these 2

- 16 Man Cibernetico - CMLL - 18/4/97 - *****
- El Hijo Del Santo & Octagon vs Love Machine & Eddy Guerrero - AAA - 6/11/94 - *****


----------



## KB# 24

Off the top of my head...

from wwf/e:

angle vs. benoit - royal rumble 03
rock vs. mankind - royal rumble 99, was the i quit match
hardy boys vs. edge and christian vs dudleys - wrestlemania 17, was a TLC match
angle & benoit vs. edge and mysterio - no mercy 02, for the new tag belts

from tna:
styles vs. daniels vs. joe - unbreakable 05
styles vs. joe - sacrifice 05

from roh:
joe vs. punk - joe vs punk 2
danielson vs. london - epic encounter, was a 2 out of 3 falls
do fixer vs. blood generation - supercard of honor

from ecw:
eddie guerrero vs. malenko - ecw tv episode in 95, was a 2 out of 3 falls encounter

from wcw:
eddie guerrero vs. mysterio - halloween havoc 97

from puro:
kenta vs. marufuji - was a NOAH show, i cannot remember the name or year

from iwa:
punk vs. hero - house of hardcore 02, was a TLC match.

All I can think of at this present time.


----------



## Yeah1993

I haven't given "official" Star ratings in over a year, but it'd look something like this now:

Mitsuharu Misawa v Toshiaki Kawada (AJPW 3/6/94)
Mitsuharu Misawa v Jumbo Tsuruta (AJPW 1/9/90)
Mitsuharu Misawa/Kenta Kobashi v Toshiaki Kawada/Akira Taue (AJPW 3/12/93)
Mitsuharu Misawa/Kenta Kobashi v Toshiaki Kawada/Akira Taue (AJPW 9/6/95)
Mitsuharu Misawa/Kenta Kobashi/Toshiaki Kawada v Jumbo Tsuruta/Akira Taue/Masanobu Fuchi (AJPW 22/5/92)
Ric Flair v Ricky Steamboat (NWA 2/4/89)
Ric Flair v Ricky Steamboat (NWA 7/5/89)
Ric Flair v Ricky Steamboat (NWA 18/3/89) (There's two house show matches this day, this one I'd give 5 from Landover, and another one from Philly)
El Hijo del Santo v ***** Casas (CMLL 19/9/97)
***** Casas v El Dandy (CMLL 3/7/92)
Cicloncito Ramirez v Damiancito El Guerrero (CMLL 7/1/97)
Mitsuhary Misawa v Kenta Kobashi (AJPW 20/1/97)
Blue Panther v Atlantis (CMLL 9/8/91)

There's others I'd probably give five if I watched them tomorrow (Santo/Espanto 86, 20/4/91 six man, Jumbo/Tenryu, santo/Casa 87, Flair/Windham 86, etc.) and some from this list I'd probably knock down. That's the beauaty of not actually keeping track ~ :hb


----------



## Fighter Daron

*WWF/E: *
Stone Cold Steve Austin Vs Bret Hart - Wrestlemania XIII
Armageddon Hell in a Cell
Steve Austin Vs The Rock - Wrestlemania X-7
First TLC - Wrestlemania X-7
Team WWF Vs Team Alliance - WWF: Survivor Series 2001
The Rock Vs Hulk Hogan - WWF: Wrestlemania X8
Triple H vs Chris Jericho - Hell in a Cell Match - WWE: Judgement Day 2002
Triple Vs Shawn Michaels - Unsanctioned Match - WWE: Summerslam 2002
Ric Flair Vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania XXIV
Shawn Michaels Vs Undertaker - Wrestlemania XXV
Shawn Michaels Vs Undertaker - Wrestlemania XXVI
John Cena Vs CM Punk - MITB 2011

*TNA*
Samoa Joe Vs Christopher Daniels Vs AJ Styles - Unbreakable 2005
Samoa Joe Vs Christopher Daniels Vs AJ Styles - Turning Point 2009

*ROH*
Low Ki vs Doug Williams vs Spanky vs Christopher Daniels - Crowning a Champion
Samoa Joe Vs CM Punk - World Title Classic
Samoa Joe Vs CM Punk - Joe Vs Punk II
ROH(Claudio Castagnoli, Delirious, Rocky Romero & Austin Aries) Vs Dragon Gate(CIMA, Dragon Kid, Ryo Saito & Yokosuka) - ROH: All Star Estravaganza 3
Kenta Kobashi Vs Samoa Joe - Joe Vs Kobashi
Bryan Danielson Vs KENTA - Glory By Honor V Night 2
Nigel MacGuinness Vs Bryan Danielson - Unified

*PWG*
Bryan Danielson Vs Chris Hero - Guerre Sans Frontieres
¡Peligro Abejas! Vs Young Bucks Vs Cutler Brothers – Guerrilla Warfare - PWG Seven

*CZW *
John Zandig Vs Sick Nick Mondo - 2 Out of 3 Falls Log Cabin Deathmatch - CZW: Tournament of Death II
Ian Rotten Vs Necro Butcher - Fans Bring Weapons - CZW: Tournament of Death II

*NJPW*
Naoki Sano Vs Jushin Thunder Liger - 1-31-1990
Hiroshi Tanahashi Vs Hirooki Goto - Destruction 2007
Hiroshi Tanahashi Vs Satoshi Kojima - G1 Climax 2010 Final

*AJPW*
Jumbo Tsuruta Vs Genichiro Tenryu - 05/06/1989
Mitsuharu Misawa Vs Toshaki Kawada - 03/06/1994

*NOAH*
Kensuke Sasaki Vs Go Shiozaki - 24/07/10

*Dragon Gate*
YAMATO Vs Naruki Doi - Compilation Gate 2010


----------



## smitlick

never thought i would see Ian Rottens name make this thread.


----------



## KingKicks

Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Triple H (No Way Out 2001)
Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock (Wrestlemania X7)
Bret Hart vs. Mr Perfect (King of the Ring 1993)
Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart (Wrestlemania X)
Bret Hart vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin (Wrestlemania 13)
Cactus Jack vs. Triple H (Royal Rumble 2000)
Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle (Royal Rumble 2003)
Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat (Wrestle War 89)
Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat (Chi-Town Rumble)
Christopher Daniels vs. AJ Styles vs. Samoa Joe (Unbreakable)
Jumbo Tsurtua vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (AJPW 6/8/90)
Samoa Joe vs. Kenta Kobashi (Joe vs. Kobashi)
KENTA vs. Davey Richards (Supercard of Honor IV)
American Wolves vs. Bryan Danielson and Tyler Black (Tag Title Classic)
The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XXV)
Samoa Joe vs. CM Punk (Joe vs. Punk II)
Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA (Glory By Honor V Night Two)
John Cena vs. CM Punk (Money In The Bank 2011)

Still got A LOT of stuff on my hard drive to watch from the 80's/90's.


----------



## Bubz

It's hard to remember as I don't really keep a list or anything, but some matches that I think are genuinely some of the best ever off the top of my head are...

*WWF/E*
Bret Hart vs Steve Austin - Wrestlemania 13
Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker - Wrestlemania 26
Shawn Michaels vs HHH vs Chris Benoit - Wrestlemania 20
The Rock vs Steve Austin - Wrestlemania 17
Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho - Wrestlemania 19
HHH vs Steve Austin (2/3 falls) - No Way Out 2001

I just realised all of my favorite WWE matches have all been at Wrestlemania.

*TNA*
AJ Styles vs Samoa Joe vs Christopher Daniels - Unbreakable 2005

*ROH*
Bryan Danielson vs KENTA - Driven 2007
Samoa Joe vs CM Punk - Joe vs Punk II
Bryan Danielson/Tyler Black vs American Wolves - Tag Title Classic
Kevin Steen vs El Generico - Final Battle 2010

*Puro*
Misawa vs Kawada - AJPW 06/03/1994

I haven't watched much of the old puro stuff, I have seen some though, the ones people say to me are the best matches ever etc, but I just don't see it. They are great physical battles, but I think had I been interested in puro at the time I would have thought they were much better. I'm not sure if it's because I wasn't following the company's at the time and I'm not familiar with the feuds and stuff etc. Anyway, I'm going to try and watch alot of that stuff over the summer as I have shit all to do. I'll probably just go through these lists and watch the ones poeple have at the top, and any other recomendations would be swell .

I will probably think of more matches I forgot to add later on.


----------



## 666_The_Game_666

WWF/E
Bret Hart vs Owen Hart Wrestlemania X and Summerslam 94
Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels Wrestlemania XII
Bret Hart vs Steve Austin Wrestlemania 13
Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker Badd Blood 97
Steve Austin vs Triple H No Way Out 01
Steve Austin vs The Rock Wrestlemania X7
Triple H vs Shawn Michaels Summerslam 02
Kurt Angle vs Chris Beniot Royal Rumble 03
Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels Wrestlemania 21
Shawn Michaels vs Shelton Benjiman Raw 2005
Shawn Michaels vs John Cena Raw 2007
Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker Wrestlemania 25


----------



## Goku

Hart vs. Austin, Mania 13
Michaels vs. Undertaker, Mania 26


----------



## Roybhoy88

Terry Funk vs Ric Flair - I Quit

Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat - 2/3 Falls

Mankind vs HBK - Mind Games

HBK vs The Undertaker - WM 25

HBK VS The Undertaker - HIAC

Steve Austin vs Bret Hart - WM 13

Ric Flair vs HBK - WM 24

Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle - Royal Rumble 2003

Dudleys v Hardy's vs Edge/Christian - TLC WM17

Steve Austin vs The Rock - WM 17 & 19

Steve Austin vs HHH - 2/3 Falls

HHH vs HBK - HIAC

RVD vs Jerry Lynn - Hardcore Heaven 2000

AJ Styles vs Samoa Joe vs Christopher Daniels - 2005

Eddie Guerrero vs Dean Malenko - ECW

Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio - Halloween Havoc

I've only watched a handful of Japanese matches so will keep them out my list & add more later as i think.


----------



## Tanner1495

Off the top of my head it is 

HBK vs Undertaker Wrestlemania 25 and 26
Cactus Jack vs Triple H Hell in the Cell No Way Out 2000
Triple H vs HBK vs Chris Benoit Wrestlemania XX
Samoa Joe vs AJ Styles vs Christopher Daniels Unbreakable 2005
HBK vs Kurt Angle Wrestlemania 21
CM Punk vs John Cena Money in the Bank 2011
Cactus Jack vs Triple H in a Street Fight Royal Rumble 2000

I still have alot of rewatching and watching the first time, but our computer melted so we are getting a new one soon so yea.


----------



## Bubz

Just rewatched Misawa/Kawada from 94 (I had seen it years ago, before I really appreciated pro wrestling). What a fucking match! Easily one of the best matches I have ever seen. Added to my list.


----------



## D'Angelo

smitlick said:


> - Mitsuharu Misawa vs Kenta Kobashi - NOAH - 1/3/03
> - Nick Jackson, El Generico & Necro Butcher vs Roderick Strong, Davey Richards & Austin Aries vs Joey Ryan, Chuck Taylor & Kenny Omega - PWG BOLA 08 Night 2
> - 16 Man Cibernetico - CMLL - 18/4/97
> - El Hijo Del Santo & Octagon vs Love Machine & Eddy Guerrero - AAA - 6/11/94
> 
> I haven't exactly been giving out snowflakes for an overly long time so i really only have the most recent stuff that I've watched which is why im compiling my ratings on the blog in my sig... Really need to rewatch a lot of stuff but I doubt I'll ever get to it. ATM i have about 26 DVDs in a pile that i haven't even watched yet with a couple more on the way..


All those are ***** - awesome.

Your lucky, I have a full 500GB HDD and over 125 discs waiting to be watched :shocked:



antoniomare007 said:


> I don't like ratings and I've seen way to many awesome stuff to make a definitive list. But from what I can remember, the matches that get the _"it doesn't get any better than this" _treatment would be:
> 
> 
> Jushin "Thunder" Liger vs Naoki Sano - 1/30/90
> Jushin "Thunder" Liger vs Shinjiro Ohtani - 1997
> Pegasus Kid vs Black Tiger II - BOSJ 1996 Semifinals
> Shinya Hashimoto vs Nobuhiko Takada - Battle Formation 1996
> Shinya Hashimoto vs Hiroshi Hase - 12/13/94
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Hirooki Goto - 2007
> 
> Toshiaki Kawada vs Mitsuharu Misawa - 6/3/94 (still the best match I've ever seen)
> Jumbo Tsuruta vs Mitsuharu Misawa - 6/8/90
> Kenta Kobashi vs Mitsuharu Misawa - 1/20/97
> Akira Taue vs Mitsuharu Misawa - 1995 Champions Carnival Final
> Kobashi & Misawa vs Holy Demon Army - 6/9/95
> Akiyama & Misawa vs Holy Demon Army - 12/6/96
> Jumbo Tsuruta vs Genichiro Tenryu - 6/5/89
> Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenry vs Riki Choshu & Yoshiaki Yatsu - 1/28/86
> Terry Funk & Dory Funk vs Abdullah the Butcher & The Sheik - RWTL 1977
> 
> Terry Funk vs Ric Flair - Clash Of The Champions IX
> Bruiser Brody vs Ric Flair - 2/11/83 (not sure if that date is from the match I'm thinking)
> Barry Windham vs Ric Flair - Crocket Cup 1987
> Ricky Steamboat vs Ric Flair - ChiTown Rumble 1989
> Ricky Steamboat vs Ric Flair - Wrestlewar 1989
> 
> 
> Sgt. Slaughter vs Iron Sheik - Boot Camp Match 1984
> Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee - Loser Leaves Town 6/6/83
> Jerry Lawler vs Austin Idol - Hair vs Hair Steel Cage Match 1987
> 
> Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio - Halloween Havoc 1997
> Steve Austin vs Bret Hart - Wrestlemania XIII
> Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle - Royal Rumble 2003
> Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels vs Triple H - Wrestlemania XX
> 
> Low Ki vs Bryan Danielson - Round Robin Challenge
> Nigel McGuinness vs Bryan Danielson - Unified
> KENTA vs Bryan Danielson - Glory By Honor V
> Chris Hero vs Bryan Danielson - 16 Carat Gold Tournament 2008
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there's more but I'm way to lazy to keep remembering and look for dates


Great list (Y)



Yeah1993 said:


> I haven't given "official" Star ratings in over a year, but it'd look something like this now:
> 
> Mitsuharu Misawa v Toshiaki Kawada (AJPW 3/6/94)
> Mitsuharu Misawa v Jumbo Tsuruta (AJPW 1/9/90)
> Mitsuharu Misawa/Kenta Kobashi v Toshiaki Kawada/Akira Taue (AJPW 3/12/93)
> Mitsuharu Misawa/Kenta Kobashi v Toshiaki Kawada/Akira Taue (AJPW 9/6/95)
> Mitsuharu Misawa/Kenta Kobashi/Toshiaki Kawada v Jumbo Tsuruta/Akira Taue/Masanobu Fuchi (AJPW 22/5/92)
> Ric Flair v Ricky Steamboat (NWA 2/4/89)
> Ric Flair v Ricky Steamboat (NWA 7/5/89)
> Ric Flair v Ricky Steamboat (NWA 18/3/89) (There's two house show matches this day, this one I'd give 5 from Landover, and another one from Philly)
> El Hijo del Santo v ***** Casas (CMLL 19/9/97)
> ***** Casas v El Dandy (CMLL 3/7/92)
> Cicloncito Ramirez v Damiancito El Guerrero (CMLL 7/1/97)
> Mitsuhary Misawa v Kenta Kobashi (AJPW 20/1/97)
> Blue Panther v Atlantis (CMLL 9/8/91)
> 
> There's others I'd probably give five if I watched them tomorrow (Santo/Espanto 86, 20/4/91 six man, Jumbo/Tenryu, santo/Casa 87, Flair/Windham 86, etc.) and some from this list I'd probably knock down. That's the beauaty of not actually keeping track ~ :hb


Another great list (Y)



smitlick said:


> never thought i would see Ian Rottens name make this thread.


:lmao


----------



## peachchaos

*WWE*
Ricky Steamboat vs. Randy Savage (WM3)
Bret Hart vs. Davey Boy Smith (SS92)
Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart (WMX)
Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart (SS94)
Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind (IYH96)
Owen Hart vs. Davey Boy Smith (RAW97)
Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin (WM13)
Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker (BB97)
Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle (RR03)
Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H vs. Chris Benoit

*WCW/NWA*
The Flair-Steamboat Trilogy
Flair vs. Funk (Clash/I Quit)
Cactus Jack vs. Vader
Flair vs. Vader (Starrcade '93)
Flair vs. Steamboat (SS94)
Eddy Guerrero vs. Rey Misterio Jr. (HH97)
Bret Hart vs. Chris Benoit (Tribute Match)

*ECW*
The Guerrero-Malenko Trilogy
Chris Benoit vs. Al Snow (Double Tables 1995)
Raven & Stevie Richards vs. The Pit Bulls (Gangsta's Paradise)
Michinoku Pro 6 Man Tag (Barely Legal)

*ROH*
The Joe-Punk Trilogy
Joe vs. Kobashi 
Danielson vs. McGuinness
Danielson vs. KENTA
Richards vs. Aries


----------



## tboneangle

great lists im starting to think i have too many on mine lol


----------



## jawbreaker

Cutting all of these off would be a start:

-Rob Van Dam(c) vs Jerry Lynn,ECW TV Title,ECW Hardcore Heaven 1999 

-The Rock(c) vs Steve Austin,WWF Title,NO DQ,WWF WrestleMania X-Seven 

-Kurt Angle vs Shane Mcmahon,Street Fight,WWF King Of The Ring 2001

-Kurt Angle vs Steve Austin(c),WWF Title,WWF Unforgiven 2001

-Shawn Michaels vs Triple H,Street Fight,WWE Summerslam 2002

-Brock Lesnar(c) vs The Undertaker,WWE Title,Hell In A Cell,WWE No Mercy 2002 

-Kurt Angle(c) vs Brock Lesnar,WWE Title,Level Playing Field,WWE WrestleMania XIX

-Kurt Angle(c) vs Brock Lesnar,WWE Title,WWE Summerslam 2003

-Kurt Angle(c) vs Brock Lesnar,WWE Title,60 Minute Iron Man Match,WWE Smackdown 9-18-2003

-Brock Lesnar(c) vs Eddie Guerrero,WWE Title,WWE No Way Out 2004

-Randy Orton(c) vs Cactus Jack,WWE IC Title,Hardcore Match,WWE Backlash 2004

-AJ Styles vs Chris Sabin vs Petey Williams(c),TNA X Title,Ultimate X,TNA Final Resolution 2005

-AJ Styles(c) vs Christopher Daniels,TNA X Title,30 Minute Iron Man Match,TNA Against All Odds 2005

-Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels,WWE WrestleMania 21

-John Cena(c) vs JBL,WWE Title,I Quit,WWE Judgment Day 2005

-AJ Styles vs Matt Hardy,IWC 7-29-2005

-Kurt Angle(c) vs The Undertaker,WWE WHC,WWE No Way Out 2006

-Kurt Angle vs AJ Styles vs Samoa Joe vs Christain Cage vs ???,TNA World Title(First),KOM,TNA Slammiversary 2007

-Kurt Angle(c) vs Yuji Nagata,IGF Title,Tokyo Dome Show 1-4-2008

-Kurt Angle(c) vs Samoa Joe,TNA Title vs Career,Cage,TNA Lockdown 2008

-Kurt Angle vs Jeff Jarrett,NO DQ,TNA Genesis 2009

-Kurt Angle vs Matt Morgan,TNA Bound For Glory 2009

-Kurt Angle vs AJ Styles(c),TNA Title,TNA Impact 1-4-2010

-Kurt Angle vs Mr Anderson,Cage,Escape Only,TNA Lockdown 2010

-MCMG(c) vs Beer Money,2/3 Falls,TNA Tag Titles,TNA Whole F'N Show

-AJ Styles vs Bully Ray,Last Man Standing,TNA Slammiversary IX 2011


----------



## SuperDuperSonic

I see no reason for Angle vs. HBK Round 1 to not be at least ****3/4. VERY BARE MINIMUM. They were so perfect for each other in that match.


----------



## tboneangle

Any recomendations for me to watch from ROH or Indy? I know i may have seen Misawa vs Kawada but im not sure


----------



## Clique

Nick Bockwinkel vs. Curt Hennig - AWA Championship Wrestling 11/15/1986

Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat - NWA/WCW Chi-Town Rumble 1989 
Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat - NWA/WCW Clash Of The Champions 1989
Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat - NWA/WCW WrestleWar 1989 


Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart - WWF WrestleMania X
Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin (Submission Match) - WWF WrestleMania 13
Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio (Mask vs. Title) - WCW Halloween Havoc 1997
Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker (Hell In A Cell Match) - WWF Badd Blood 1997

Edge & Rey Mysterio vs. Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit (Tournament Finals) - WWE No Mercy 2002
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit - WWE Royal Rumble 2003
Triple H vs. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels - WWE WrestleMania XX
Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels - WWE WrestleMania XXV
Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (Streak vs. Career) - WWE WrestleMania XXVI


----------



## Goatlord

I have never given a ***** rating in my life, ****1/2+ is as high as it gets (Misawa/Kawada Triple Crown 1994), matches like Taker/Michaels 1,2, Joe/Punk and Punk/Cena are ****1/4 matches and most other stuff is below. Then again I'm trying to be realistic, a ***** match needs to have 100% perfect storytelling, and incredibly flashy, demanding movesets mixed up with a match flow and pacing that makes you dive into the experience so much that you think it's a shoot. So yeah, no ***** matches from me.


----------



## geraldinhio

Goatlord said:


> I have never given a ***** rating in my life, ****1/2+ is as high as it gets (Misawa/Kawada Triple Crown 1994), matches like Taker/Michaels 1,2, Joe/Punk and Punk/Cena are ****1/4 matches and most other stuff is below. Then again I'm trying to be realistic, a ***** match needs to have 100% perfect storytelling, and incredibly flashy, demanding movesets mixed up with a match flow and pacing that makes you dive into the experience so much that you think it's a shoot. So yeah, no ***** matches from me.


I stopped reading when ya said a match has to be incredibly flashy to be 5 stars . fpalm 

Just off the top of my head . 

CM Punk vs Samoa Joe ROH Joe vs Punk 2 . 
Undertaker vs Shawn Micheals -WWE Wrestlemania 26 
Tyler Black and Bryan Danielson vs Eddie Edwards and Davey Richards - ROH tag title classic 
Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness -ROH Unified 
El Generico vs Kevin Steen - ROH fight without Honor Final Battle 
Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio - Mask vs Title 
Ric Flair vs. Terry Funk NWA Clash Of The Champions 
Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat NWA Wrestlewar 

Not gonna name much more as i'll just be repeating matches allready said . Didn't see Rey Misterio Jr, Winners and Super Calo vs Psicosis, Heavy Metal and El Picudo from AAA on anyones list . Probably my favourite Lucha match ever .


----------



## Matt Flash

jawbreaker said:


> Cutting all of these off would be a start:
> 
> -Rob Van Dam(c) vs Jerry Lynn,ECW TV Title,ECW Hardcore Heaven 1999
> 
> -The Rock(c) vs Steve Austin,WWF Title,NO DQ,WWF WrestleMania X-Seven
> 
> -Kurt Angle vs Shane Mcmahon,Street Fight,WWF King Of The Ring 2001
> 
> -Kurt Angle vs Steve Austin(c),WWF Title,WWF Unforgiven 2001
> 
> -Shawn Michaels vs Triple H,Street Fight,WWE Summerslam 2002
> 
> -Brock Lesnar(c) vs The Undertaker,WWE Title,Hell In A Cell,WWE No Mercy 2002
> 
> -Kurt Angle(c) vs Brock Lesnar,WWE Title,Level Playing Field,WWE WrestleMania XIX
> 
> -Kurt Angle(c) vs Brock Lesnar,WWE Title,WWE Summerslam 2003
> 
> -Kurt Angle(c) vs Brock Lesnar,WWE Title,60 Minute Iron Man Match,WWE Smackdown 9-18-2003
> 
> -Brock Lesnar(c) vs Eddie Guerrero,WWE Title,WWE No Way Out 2004
> 
> -Randy Orton(c) vs Cactus Jack,WWE IC Title,Hardcore Match,WWE Backlash 2004
> 
> -AJ Styles vs Chris Sabin vs Petey Williams(c),TNA X Title,Ultimate X,TNA Final Resolution 2005
> 
> -AJ Styles(c) vs Christopher Daniels,TNA X Title,30 Minute Iron Man Match,TNA Against All Odds 2005
> 
> -Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels,WWE WrestleMania 21
> 
> -John Cena(c) vs JBL,WWE Title,I Quit,WWE Judgment Day 2005
> 
> -AJ Styles vs Matt Hardy,IWC 7-29-2005
> 
> -Kurt Angle(c) vs The Undertaker,WWE WHC,WWE No Way Out 2006
> 
> -Kurt Angle vs AJ Styles vs Samoa Joe vs Christain Cage vs ???,TNA World Title(First),KOM,TNA Slammiversary 2007
> 
> -Kurt Angle(c) vs Yuji Nagata,IGF Title,Tokyo Dome Show 1-4-2008
> 
> -Kurt Angle(c) vs Samoa Joe,TNA Title vs Career,Cage,TNA Lockdown 2008
> 
> -Kurt Angle vs Jeff Jarrett,NO DQ,TNA Genesis 2009
> 
> -Kurt Angle vs Matt Morgan,TNA Bound For Glory 2009
> 
> -Kurt Angle vs AJ Styles(c),TNA Title,TNA Impact 1-4-2010
> 
> -Kurt Angle vs Mr Anderson,Cage,Escape Only,TNA Lockdown 2010
> 
> -MCMG(c) vs Beer Money,2/3 Falls,TNA Tag Titles,TNA Whole F'N Show
> 
> -AJ Styles vs Bully Ray,Last Man Standing,TNA Slammiversary IX 2011


Not that anyone's opinion is WRONG, but Angle/HBK, HBK/HHH, Orton/Cactus and Rock/Austin are all so good that I don't see how you could offer those up to the chopping block. The rest are clearly personal preference, and while I don't agree with them, he's not WRONG for liking a match too much. Hell I wish I wasn't so cynical anymore and could sit back and just enjoy more wrestling than I do these days.


----------



## Goatlord

geraldinhio said:


> I stopped reading when ya said a match has to be incredibly flashy to be 5 stars . fpalm


I love people who take simple statements out of context...


----------



## jawbreaker

Matt Flash said:


> Not that anyone's opinion is WRONG, but Angle/HBK, HBK/HHH, Orton/Cactus and Rock/Austin are all so good that I don't see how you could offer those up to the chopping block. The rest are clearly personal preference, and while I don't agree with them, he's not WRONG for liking a match too much. Hell I wish I wasn't so cynical anymore and could sit back and just enjoy more wrestling than I do these days.


It's been a very long time since I watched all of those, so I don't think my opinion is super valid. I didn't think any were five stars when I watched them in like 2007, except maybe Rock/Austin, which I did rewatch about a year and a half ago and liked significantly less.

But any opinion that says Angle/AJ from the 1/4/10 Impact was five stars is so incredibly wrong that it wouldn't be worth my time trying to reason with it.


----------



## Yeah1993

tboneangle said:


> great lists im starting to think i have too many on mine lol


I wouldn't worry about that. Dave Meltzer has over 60 now I think and some pretty much hold his opinion as a Messiah or something. if you thought all of those were five then no one should make you change any of them. Unless you really want to, then this post was useless and I'm typing for nothing.


----------



## TelkEvolon

ROH: Eddie Edwards & Davey Richards vs Tyler Black & Bryan Danielson - Tag Title Classic


----------



## Ali Dia

some real great lists here. I want to add because i dont think anyone has said it but Nigel/Aries Rising Above for me would just about have to be the best ROH match ever in my opinion. The psychology and storytelling was fantastic on top of a well wrestled match, with many flashpoints as well as the added x-factor (that i feel 5 star matches need) with Nigel's concussion and watching Aries have no mercy. Edge of my seat the whole way through.

Add Morishima/Danielson from MM 2 to that as well.


----------



## JasperSmerth

I've bound to missed plenty of matches, but here's what I remember....

*WWF/E:*
Bret Hart Vs Mr. Perfect - King of the Ring 1993
Cage Match: Owen Hart Vs Bret Hart - Summerslam 1994
Submission Match: Stone Cold Steve Austin Vs Bret Hart - Wrestlemania XIII
Hell in a Cell Match: Mankind Vs Undertaker - King of the Ring 1998
Ladder Match: Chris Benoit Vs Chris Jericho - Royal Rumble 2001
Steve Austin Vs The Rock - Wrestlemania X-7
Chris Benoit Vs Kurt Angle - Royal Rumble 2003
Shawn Michaels Vs Chris Jericho - Wrestlemania XIX
Shawn Michaels Vs Undertaker - Wrestlemania XXV
John Cena Vs CM Punk - MITB 2011

ROH: 
Samoa Joe Vs Kenta Kobashi - Joe Vs Kobashi

Puro:
Jumbo Tsurata Vs Mitsuharu Misawa - AJPW 1990
Dan Kroffat & Doug Furnas Vs Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi
Kikuchi - AJPW 1992
Kenta Kobashi Vs Mitsuharu Misawa - NOAH 2003
Kenta Kobashi Vs Jun Akiyama - NOAH 2004

Go easy on me. I've only started watching puro this year and I rarely watch ROH.


----------



## Brye

Danielson/KENTA - GBH V
Benoit/HBK/Triple H - WM XX
Punk/Joe - Punk vs Joe II
HBK/Undertaker - Badd Blood '97
Flair/Steamboat - Clash Of The Champions

Ones that come real close:
Angle/HBK - WM 21
Punk/Cena - MITB '11
HBK/Undertaker - WM 26


----------



## D'Angelo

Goatlord said:


> I have never given a ***** rating in my life, ****1/2+ is as high as it gets (Misawa/Kawada Triple Crown 1994), matches like Taker/Michaels 1,2, Joe/Punk and Punk/Cena are ****1/4 matches and most other stuff is below. Then again I'm trying to be realistic, a ***** match needs to have 100% perfect storytelling, and incredibly flashy, demanding movesets mixed up with a match flow and pacing that makes you dive into the experience so much that you think it's a shoot. So yeah, no ***** matches from me.


:lmao I'm guessing you haven't seen much of the great brawlers like Stan Hansen & Lawler, where their offence isn't flashy at all, and most of it is punching?

You say you want "flashy" movesets yet you want it to be so realistic it looks like a shoot. You don't exactly see people performing hurracanranas or locking in an STF in a bar fight do you?


----------



## jawbreaker

this one time I saw a guy moonsault off a pool table in a bar fight
I think he was drunk


----------



## D'Angelo

:lmao Cattle mutilation in a bar fight would be epic.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35

Stringer said:


> :lmao I'm guessing you haven't seen much of the great brawlers like Stan Hansen & Lawler, where their offence isn't flashy at all, and most of it is punching?
> 
> You say you want "flashy" movesets yet you want it to be so realistic it looks like a shoot. You don't exactly see people performing hurracanranas or locking in an STF in a bar fight do you?


:lmao +1


----------



## smitlick

lmao if you want it to 100% feel like a shoot watch mma.


----------



## tboneangle

ya it sux having OCD and having to seperate between 4 and 3/4 and 5 stars


----------



## tboneangle

Anyway what are some good matches i may be missing?


----------



## topper1

tboneangle said:


> Anyway what are some good matches i may be missing?


40+ years of japan wrestling. 90's AJPW is a good place to start :flip


----------



## tboneangle

heard some great things about Misawa whats a great match to start with


----------



## antoniomare007

the first Jumbo match is a good start.


----------



## Yeah1993

Misawa/Kobashi vs. Kawada/Taue 12/3/93 and Misawa/Kawada/Kobashi vs. Jumbo/Taue/Fuchi 5/22/92 are two AJPW 90s matches that I'd probably say are as much flat out fun popcorn matches as they are "epic" battles. That's not a great place to start in terms of timeline but they'r eeasy to get into and the whole deal of "watching in order" is generally exaggerated anyway.


----------



## antoniomare007

I recommended Jumbo/Misawa because is fucking awesome. And that leads to the Jumbo/Misawa stable war that is probably the most fun time in 90's All Japan.


----------



## Yeah1993

antoniomare007 said:


> I recommended Jumbo/Misawa because is fucking awesome. And that leads to the Jumbo/Misawa stable war that is probably the most fun time in 90's All Japan.


Oh that wasn't a shot at you (or anyone else), but I get the impression some tell others to not watch certain AJ90s matches unless they've seen every other match before it. I think Jumbo/Misawa is as much of a good place to start as any. 

I have no idea whether or not you took my last post as a shot at anything but... yeah.


----------



## Virgil_85

I don't generally rate matches, but I'd have to say I think Edwards vs Richards is probably my favourite match I've ever seen. Second would either be Undertaker vs Michaels, or pretty much anything with El Generico in it.


----------



## antoniomare007

Yeah1993 said:


> Oh that wasn't a shot at you (or anyone else), but I get the impression some tell others to not watch certain AJ90s matches unless they've seen every other match before it. I think Jumbo/Misawa is as much of a good place to start as any.
> 
> I have no idea whether or not you took my last post as a shot at anything but... yeah.


lol c'mon man, not at all.

I agree that watching 90's AJPW matches "in order" is overrated (unless you want to dissect and "understand" every part of the match ala Nervosa). I just wanted to make clear that chronological viewing wasn't my reason to recommend Misawa/Jumbo.

Now, If you still haven't watched Hashimoto's best matches...that's a shot at me and all that is stiff and awesome about pro wrestling


----------



## DTB1986

I would feel weird doing this because i've probably seen about 1/100 of the amount of matches to have a good comprehensive list. But i can do 2011

CM Punk vs Cena

Eddie Edwards vs Dave Richards

El Generico vs Kevin Steen

3 five star matches in one year is pretty high i bet but i'll re evaluate after i watch another 1000 matches or so.


----------



## Bubz

DTB1986 said:


> I would feel weird doing this because i've probably seen about 1/100 of the amount of matches to have a good comprehensive list. But i can do 2011
> 
> CM Punk vs Cena
> 
> Eddie Edwards vs Dave Richards
> 
> El Generico vs Kevin Steen
> 
> 3 five star matches in one year is pretty high i bet but *i'll re evaluate after i watch another 1000 matches or so*.


Lol, I expect to see this thread back here in about 2 years then.


----------



## flag sabbath

Kobashi & Kikuchi vs Fuchi & Ogawa from July 1992 is a personal favourite. They gripped Korakuen with expert pacing & so many great near-falls.

Part of the context for enjoying early '90s puro is appreciating just how mediocre & patronising most US wrestling was back then. I started watching Japanese wrestling tapes in '91 & was blown away by the quality, intensity & complexity of it.

Of course as things skyrocketed stateside with SMW, ECW and the Monday Night Wars, puro stagnated & the Japanese influence on US wrestling reduced the distinction between styles.


----------



## D'Angelo

topper1 said:


> 40+ years of japan wrestling. 90's AJPW is a good place to start :flip


And Mexico from the 70s. And Europe... :lmao About 3000000000000000000000000000000000000000 matches left to watch.



antoniomare007 said:


> lol c'mon man, not at all.
> 
> I agree that watching 90's AJPW matches "in order" is overrated (unless you want to dissect and "understand" every part of the match ala Nervosa). I just wanted to make clear that chronological viewing wasn't my reason to recommend Misawa/Jumbo.
> 
> Now, If you still haven't watched Hashimoto's best matches...that's a shot at me and all that is stiff and awesome about pro wrestling


Hashimoto is just a fucking BOSS.


----------



## Bubz

So far on my to watch list after reading this thread are...

Mitsuharu Misawa/Kenta Kobashi v Toshiaki Kawada/Akira Taue (9/6/95)
Mitsuharu Misawa v Jumbo Tsuruta (1/9/90)
Jumbo Tsuruta Vs Genichiro Tenryu (5/6/89)

I'll get them watched today I think.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

My list (in order too, from best to "worst"):

The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - In Your House 18: Bad Blood 1997
Ric Flair Vs Barry Windham - Battle of the Belts II 1986
Ric Flair Vs Barry Windham - World Wide Wrestling 1987
Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Clash of the Champions VI 1989
Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Wrestle War 1989
The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania 26 2010
Nigel McGuinness Vs Bryan Danielson - Unified 2006
Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Chi Town Rumble 1989
Bret Hart Vs Owen Hart - WrestleMania X 1994
Steve Austin Vs Bret Hart - Survivor Series 1996
Steve Austin Vs Bret Hart - WrestleMania 13 1997
The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania 25 2009
Bret Hart Vs Mr Perfect - SummerSlam 1991
Royal Rumble Match 1992
Kurt Angle Vs Brock Lesnar - Summerslam 2003
The Undertaker Vs Kurt Angle Vs The Rock - Vengeance 2002
Bret Hart Vs Mr Perfect - King of the Ring 1993


----------



## adri17

Eddie Guerrero vs. Dean Malenko - Hostile City Showdown '95
HHH vs. Benoit vs. HBK - Wrestlemania XX
Austin vs. Hart - Wrestlemania 13
Danielson vs. McGuinness - ROH Unified
Joe vs. Punk - Joe vs Punk II
Davey Richards & Eddie Edwards vs. Bryan Danielson & Tyler Black - Tag Title Classic
Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio - Halloween Havoc 1997
Cena vs. Punk - TLC 2011
Survival of the Fittest Elimination Match - Survival of the Fittest 2004
Eddie Guerrero vs. Dean Malenko - Hostile City Showdown '95
Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat - Clash of the Champions VI 1989
Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart - WrestleMania X 1994
Steve Austin vs. Triple H - No Way Out 2001




I haven't watched a lot of Puro and I'm surely forgetting a couple of matches, but that's about it...


----------



## Fighter Daron

DTB1986 said:


> I would feel weird doing this because i've probably seen about 1/100 of the amount of matches to have a good comprehensive list. But i can do 2011
> 
> CM Punk vs Cena
> 
> Eddie Edwards vs Dave Richards
> 
> El Generico vs Kevin Steen
> 
> 3 five star matches in one year is pretty high i bet but i'll re evaluate after i watch another 1000 matches or so.


Well, if you are new in this, don't get me wrong, I don't wanna offend you, but Generico/Steen is from 2010 and Edwards/Richards is so far to be a five stars, definitely, it's not even the best match Richards has had. If you like him, you should watch his bouts against KENTA, Hero, Strong, Danielson or Black.

And, what's so great about the match between Undertaker and Michaels in 97?, I don't know if it is the HIAC, but I want someone to explain me its awesomeness, because I don't get it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Shawn vs Taker gets a lot of love because of the story behind it.

At Summerslam 1997 Shawn cost Taker the match by hitting him with a chair when Bret Hart ducked after spitting in Shawn's face. They were building to Taker vs Kane and Shawn vs Bret and so in between Shawn acted like the cocky prick he was and Taker saught revenge before finally beating Hart for the belt.

They fought at Ground Zero and Shawn did his best to use his speed to dodge Taker's assault and the match broke down into a brawl, Taker still didn't have the revenge he wanted as a result of DX's antics and so the HIAC match was made, with the belief that Shawn couldn't run away from Taker and we'd finally get a clear winner and #1 contender to Bret's title at Survivor Series.

The story in the match was brilliant, it was almost an extended squash in establishing the monster Undertaker vs the coward Shawn. They played off of Shawn being unable to avoid Taker despite going to great lengths to run away even culminating in him injuring the cameraman/ref so that medical attention would be brought and he could escape through the door. Taker brutalised him for all the antics in the 2 months build to the match and even creamed him with a chairshot which is what brought about the entire feud. A lot of people are bothered by some of Taker's no selling but his entire character was supposed to be that of a man who couldn't be stopped by Shawn and him being able to recover from SCM captured the story of HBK being hopelessly outmatched by his opponent and the Cell.

Then of course we get the debut of Kane, an all time great debut with the result being he stops the mighty Undertaker, builds off of the numerous months in which Bearer had proclaimed Taker would get his comeuppance and most importantly allowed HBK to scrape through yet another challenge he had no business winning, all building to the eventual screwjob finish vs Bret. Add in HBK showing more of a killer instinct (piledriver on the steps) and you have a story which built off of Shawn managing to avoid Taker for so long before being locked in a cell with a man he had bugged for over 2 months, is one of the better demonstrations of badass face v chickenshit heel getting the snot beaten out of him, puts Shawn over ahead of the match with Bret and manages to end one epic feud and in the process build 2 colossal feuds. The match also had the usual Taker vs Shawn chemistry and pacing as well as a gripping story.

That to me is why it gets the ***** love from most people.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

KingCal's Review is the gospel as far as this match goes :




> The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - In Your House 18: Badd Blood 1997
> 
> Here we go! The first ever Hell in a Cell match. The Undertaker, fighting for revenge. Shawn Michaels, fighting to survive. Also, something that is often forgotten about this match, the #1 contendership for the WWF Championship at Survivor Series is on the line too!
> 
> Before the match starts, we see referee Earl Hebner padlock the cell door shut, as Shawn pleads with him to let him out. No chance Shawn. You danced with the devil, and now you are about to get burnt!
> 
> With the door locked, the match can begin. HBK circles the ring, as The Undertaker slowly stalks his prey. After everything Shawn has done to him over the last couple of months, The Undertaker wants to put Shawn through a lot of pain, and is going to take his time doing it. He sees no need to rush, no need to run after Shawn, because unlike Ground Zero, he has nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, and no one to save him.
> 
> After playing a bit of cat and mouse, The Undertaker catches up to Shawn in the ring, and here we go! Nothing fancy, just ‘Taker grabbing Shawn by the back of his head, and ramming him into numerous turnbuckles. Shawn sells them like he just hit concrete, which some people would state he is overselling, but personally I loved it, and felt it made The Undertaker seem like a vicious powerful monster, which WWF were really turning him into at the time.
> 
> Shawn takes a beating for a couple of minutes, with ‘Taker working over the arm, hitting Old School, and even going for a cover at one point. Was The Undertaker trying to win? No, I don’t think he was. He gave Shawn a beating a month ago at Ground Zero, and Shawn never gave up, so he knew it would take more than what he had done so far to put HBK away. So why go for a cover? Because he can. He is showing Shawn that HE is in control, not Shawn. Also, kicking out of a pin attempt with a 300+ pounder on top of you wastes energy, and just helps The Undertaker more. A question some of you may be thinking is “why did Shawn kick out?”. Good question, because let’s face it, if Shawn didn’t kick out, the match would be over and he would escape the possibility of worse pain. Going back to what I said earlier, this match is for the #1 contendership. Shawn, like everyone in the WWF, wants the WWF Championship. Winning this match will place him in a title match, where he is one step closer to being champion once again. Then there is the fact Shawn is an arrogant heel, and beating The Undertaker will feed his ego, and give him bragging rights forever more.
> 
> The Undertaker decides to step things up a bit, as he grabs Shawn by the throat, seemingly going for a Chokeslam! Shawn senses this, and desperately fights his way out, sending ‘Taker into the corner. He mounts him, and begins to punch ‘Taker in the head. The Undertaker throws Shawn off, and he flies half way across the ring, again perhaps overselling, but IMO putting The Undertaker over even more. Shawn is a resilient man though, and he quickly gets to his feet and charges over into the corner to mount the Dead Man once again.
> 
> Every time Shawn attempts any offence, The Undertaker just shrugs it off and continues his epic assault on the “Sexy Boy”. The fight goes to the outside, and things are about to get brutal. ‘Taker imposes his will on Shawn, using his size and power along with the deadly cell walls to inflict more pain and damage. A couple of spots I always enjoy are when The Undertaker picks up Shawn, then smashes him back first into the ring post, turns around and smashes him back first into the corner of the cell, turns around again and smashes him in the ring post once again, then turns around one last time to send him back first into the corner of the cell. The other is when ‘Taker goes for a powerbomb, but Shawn seemingly reverses it, punching The Undertaker repeatedly in the face, only for The Undertaker to turn around and repeatedly smash Shawn into the corner of the cell again! When Shawn drops to the floor, you can see the marks on his back left by the cell, showing you that he really did hit the cell, and he hit it hard.
> 
> The underlying story of this match continues, with Shawn using the cell to attempt an escape from the pain and destruction The Undertaker has on his mind. He tries his best to climb up the cell wall to get away, but The Undertaker is tall enough to reach up and drag Shawn back down, back to hell.
> 
> Again the cell comes into play in this match, this time providing Shawn with an opening he so desperately needed. ‘Taker whips Shawn into one of the cell walls, then comes running at him, only to smash face first into the cell himself! I’m unsure if it was Shawn being able to dodge the attack, of if the sheer force of The Undertaker’s Irish Whip caused Michaels to bounce off and dodge the attack, but either way it created an opening, and HBK took it!
> 
> Just as Shawn appears to have the advantage, The Undertaker fights back. But as quickly as he re-gained control, he loses it! Shawn knocks The Undertaker off the apron, and sends him into the cell, then follows it up with a suicide dive, again driving The Undertaker into the cell! He isn’t giving ‘Taker time to recover, as he climbs the cell once again, this time to drop an elbow! Shawn is looking strong in this match now. He has used his speed, quickness and high flying ability to gain control, and is now using dirty tactics to keep that control. One of my all time favourite spots (not just from this match, but in general) right here, as Shawn hits a Piledriver to The Undertaker, ON THE STEEL STEPS! It makes one hell of a sound, and just looks incredible.
> 
> But even after all of that, The Undertaker crawls back into the ring. Again, this is putting over The Undertaker as an unstoppable monster, while at the same time, showing how resilient and CREDIBLE Shawn Michaels is when he is in the ring with the bigger, stronger opponent. Shawn doesn’t like the fact The Undertaker is still coming after him, so he pulls out a steel chair! This epic feud all began with a steel chair shot, and Shawn hopes to end it with one. I say one, but Shawn hits ‘Taker twice for good measure, and makes the cover! 1…2… NO! The Undertaker is not going out like that again. He still needs to extract his revenge on Shawn, and a steel chair isn’t going to do it this time.
> 
> The match starts to change from this moment on, as The Undertaker back body drops Shawn over the ropes, and onto a camera man. Shawn begins to beat the hell out of the camera man, laying him out on the floor. Why did he do it? I believe because he knew it would force the referee to open the door for EMT’s to attend to the guy, and the open door would allow Shawn to escape.
> 
> Until then though, Shawn must keep The Undertaker at bay. HUGE elbow drop from the top, followed by Sweet Chin Music! While all of this is happening, the door has been opened too! This is the part where I now feel the door being opened was a contingency plan, IF his superkick was not enough to put down The Undertaker. After all, what would be better than pinning The Undertaker in this match, instead of running away?
> 
> Of course, things don’t quite work out for HBK, as The Undertaker sits right up from Sweet Chin Music! Shawn is shocked, and makes a run for the door before it’s closed again! The Undertaker follows him out and catches him, sending him into the cell wall on numerous occasions, and busting him open too!
> 
> Shawn is lucky once again to find a small opening, but what is he going to do with it now? Inside the cell, he was unable to put the Dead Man away with his finisher. Outside of the cell, he was still unable to get away from the monstrous beast. The only thing left, if for him to CLIMB to the top of the cell! Unfortunately for Shawn, The Undertaker, even at 330lbs, near 7 feet tall, is able to follow him up there too!
> 
> Both men are now on top of the cell, and Shawn attempts a Piledriver up there, but instead gets a back body drop onto the steel! If that wasn’t bad enough, The Undertaker lifts him over his head, and slams him from over 7 feet in the air to the steel! Right hand now by The Undertaker, and Shawn nearly falls off the edge! He holds on, while The Undertaker has something sick on his mind. He stomps on one hand, he stomps on the other hand, and…
> 
> “Incoming!”
> 
> Shawn Michaels has nothing to hold on to, and falls back from halfway up the cell, through the announcer’s table! It crashes under the weight, and Shawn is a bloody mess on the concrete floor! It’s not over yet though, as The Undertaker climbs down, and slams him onto the floor!
> 
> While the majority of this match has been about The Undertaker being an unstoppable, almost un-human DESTRUCTION MACHINE, it’s also all about Shawn showing off just how damn resilient he is. After everything The Undertaker has done to him, he is STILL able to get up, and following the story of the match, does his best to get away from The Undertaker.
> 
> The Dead Man catches up to him once again, and throws him back into the cell, and the referee padlocks it shut one more time! Shawn is bleeding even more it seems, as it is flowing from the head of the Heart Break Kid.
> 
> The Undertaker has complete control now. He senses the time is right to put away the man who cost him the title, and starts it all off with a Chokeslam from the ropes! WOW! That isn’t enough though, as ‘Taker goes to the outside, and brings in a steel chair! As I’ve said before, this feud started with a chair shot, and The Undertaker wants it to end the same way. SICK chair shot to the bloodied head of Shawn Michaels, and payback is a BITCH! Undertaker signals that the end is here, but the lights go out, and we hear the eerie music of the man we discover to be… KANE!
> 
> Kane RIPS open the cell door, takes out the referee, and then stands face to face with his brother The Undertaker. He raises his arms, then brings them down to release fire from all 4 corners, just like The Undertaker has been known to do! The Undertaker is distracted, allowing Kane to hit a Tombstone!!!
> 
> Paul Bearer wakes the referee up, Shawn raises his head from the pool of blood he was lying in, and covers the Dead Man! A slow count, but The Undertaker is OUT of it. Shawn Michaels has WON!
> 
> Holy Shit! Every time I watch this match, I love it more and more. I love everything about it. From the way they build off the Ground Zero match with Shawn trying his best to simply get away, to the epic debut of Kane, which gives Shawn the big win, making him more credible going into the Survivor Series to fight for the title, while at the same time keeping The Undertaker credible from this loss, and further building The Undertaker/Kane feud that had been slowly boiling for months now.
> 
> People have been talking about Hell in a Cell matches for years, comparing them, ranking them, praising them and dissing them. I’ve seen people make excellent points as to why another cell match is more brutal, or why another cell match has more action, or why another cell match has better storytelling ect ect. That’s all good, people have different opinions, and that’s what makes us individuals. However, I do disagree with their opinions. I strongly believe that no other Hell in a Cell match has better storytelling, action, or even brutality. Sure, it might not be as straight up brutal as Brock Lesnar/The Undertaker, but it doesn’t have to be IMO. The fact that it’s built around one man just destroying the other makes it brutal to me. Then the blade job from Shawn, the fall from the cell, and the puddle of blood in the ring where Shawn is makes it just as brutal to me. It is only one of two cell matches that combines those three factors into the match (the second being The Undertaker Vs Edge, SummerSlam 2008), instead of just using two of the three, or in some cases, one.
> 
> This was the first ever Hell in a Cell match. I strongly believe that is has never been matched, and probably never will. It set the standard, and is the measuring stick not only for Hell in a Cell matches, but every other gimmick match too IMO. It shows perfectly how to combine storytelling, action and brutality into a single match, as well as how you put over both men involved, and even put over a completely new wrestler that has never been seen before the match (Kane). This was the first ever Hell in a Cell match, and I strongly believe it is the GREATEST MATCH OF ALL TIME.
> 
> Rating: *****


----------



## Cactus

Thank you all for these lists. I'd check a handful of matches before I post my 'official' 5 star list.


----------



## Bubz

Fighter Daron said:


> Well, if you are new in this, don't get me wrong, I don't wanna offend you, but Generico/Steen is from 2010 and Edwards/Richards is so far to be a five stars, definitely, it's not even the best match Richards has had. If you like him, you should watch his bouts against KENTA, Hero, Strong, Danielson or Black.
> 
> And, what's so great about the match between Undertaker and Michaels in 97?, I don't know if it is the HIAC, but I want someone to explain me its awesomeness, because I don't get it.


I have Steen/Generico in my list aswell. It was amazing, just a complete war. It's the best of that type of match I have ever seen probably.


----------



## Fighter Daron

After reading a review like that, you gotta love it. I dunno, when I saw the match 3 or 4 years ago, I was starting in this and I realized it as a good match, but anything more. But I think I gotta rewatch it, I don't think it'll look like the best match ever for me, but a great one, of course. 

Thanks for the answer.


----------



## Fighter Daron

bubz123 said:


> I have Steen/Generico in my list aswell. It was amazing, just a complete war. It's the best of that type of match I have ever seen probably.


Yeah, I had it too. But he said that match was from this year and I said it's from last year. 

Five stars, no doubt about it.


----------



## Roybhoy88

Honestly couldn't argue with Undertaker vs HBK - Hell In a Cell to being WWE's greatest match. I'd happily accept that actually.

Everybody should just watch anything with Less Kellett and you will soon realize you are watching a 5* showcase.


----------



## Bubz

I just watched *Mitsuharu Misawa vs Jumbo Tsuruta* from *1/9/90.*

Holy shit. Maybe the best match I have ever seen. Better than Misawa vs Kawada from 94 and Misawa vs Kobashi from 97.

So annoyed with myself for not watching more puro sooner.


----------



## starship.paint

I haven't rated a match five stars before, probably because I haven't watched most of the old stuff.

If you want my ****3/4 list...

*WWE*
Cena v Punk - MITB
*Dragon Gate*
YAMATO v Mochizuki - Infinity 177
CIMA, Fujii & Doi v Saito, Horiguchi & Kid - Pro Wrestling Festival 2005
Doi, Kishiwada & Yoshino v Saito, Kid & Yokosuka v Takagi, Hulk & Kong - Infinity 65


----------



## Cactus

bubz123 said:


> I just watched *Mitsuharu Misawa vs Jumbo Tsuruta* from *1/9/90.*
> 
> Holy shit. Maybe the best match I have ever seen. Better than Misawa vs Kawada from 94 and Misawa vs Kobashi from 97.
> 
> So annoyed with myself for not watching more puro sooner.


Haha. That was one of the first puro matches I've seen too. Bloody epic.


----------



## Violent By Design

not a big fan of misawa vs tsuruta, I couldn't really get into it. I like their trio match though.


----------



## tboneangle

Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada
AJPW Triple Crown, June 3, 1994

Heard this is supposedly the best match ever. Should i watch it? i think i may have before like 3 years ago and got bored tho


----------



## Cactus

tboneangle said:


> Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada
> AJPW Triple Crown, June 3, 1994
> 
> Heard this is supposedly the best match ever. Should i watch it? i think i may have before like 3 years ago and got bored tho


I'm burning it to a DVD as we speak. I thought I seen it before too, but I just mixed it up with their 30 minute limit draw, which was decent but not the best match ever.

Like you said, it's supposedly the best match ever. That should be all the advice you need to go out and watch it. I haven't seen it yet, but if it's meant to be that good, go ahead and watch it.


----------



## Violent By Design

Yes, it is excellent. Toward the mid way point of the match it gets really good.


----------



## rafz

my list:

*AJPW*
Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi - AJPW 31/10/98
Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi - AJPW 20/01/97
Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada - AJPW 03/06/94
Mitsuharu Misawa, Toshiaki Kawada & Kenta Kobashi vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Masanobu Fuchi - AJPW 20/04/91
Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Mitsuharu Misawa - AJPW 08/06/90
Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Masanobu Fuchi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Toshiaki Kawada & Kenta Kobashi - AJPW 19/10/90
Ric Flair vs. Jumbo Tsuruta - 2/3 Falls Match - AJPW 06/08/1983


*NJPW*
Ultimo Dragon vs. Shinjiro Otani – NJPW J-Crown Tournament 96


*NOAH*
Naomichi Marufuji vs. KENTA - NOAH 29/10/06
Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi - NOAH 01/03/03


*NWA/WCW*
Ricky Steamboat vs. Ric Flair - 2/3 Falls Match - NWA Clash of the Champions VI


*ROH*
Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA - ROH Glory By Honor V Night 2
Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness - ROH Unified
KENTA vs. Low Ki - ROH Final Battle 2005
Samoa Joe vs. CM Punk - ROH Joe vs Punk II


*WWE*
Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker - Carreer x Streak NO DQ Match - WWE Wrestlemania XXVI
Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle - WWE Wrestlemania 21
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit - WWE Royal Rumble 2003
Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker - Hell In A Cell Match - WWF Bad Blood 97
Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart - NO DQ Submission Match - WWF Wrestlemania 13
Bret Hart vs. The British Bulldog - WWF In Your House 5
Owen Hart vs. Bret Hart - WWF WrestleMania X


----------



## Bubz

tboneangle said:


> Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada
> AJPW Triple Crown, June 3, 1994
> 
> Heard this is supposedly the best match ever. Should i watch it? i think i may have before like 3 years ago and got bored tho


It is a close call between this match and the Misawa/Tsuruta match from 1/9/90 for me.


----------



## D'Angelo

No love for Kawada/Taue vs Misawa/Kobashi - 1/24/95?

***** easily, one of the greatest matches ever.


----------



## Bubz

Stringer said:


> No love for Kawada/Taue vs Misawa/Kobashi - 1/24/95?
> 
> ***** easily, one of the greatest matches ever.


I've yet to see it. Is that the best match between the two teams?


----------



## Brye

Goddman I need to watch Puro.

Only Japan matches I've watched are a Danielson/KENTA match (think it happened after the GBH one) and Blood Generation/Do Fixer match I found on youtube.


----------



## D'Angelo

bubz123 said:


> I've yet to see it. Is that the best match between the two teams?


I would think so, yes. Although both teams had unbelievably great matches with each other.

It will blow you away


----------



## antoniomare007

Stringer said:


> No love for Kawada/Taue vs Misawa/Kobashi - 1/24/95?
> 
> ***** easily, one of the greatest matches ever.


GOAT tag match IMO.


----------



## Bubz

antoniomare007 said:


> GOAT tag match IMO.


I'm watching it now. Expecting great things. You can find literally any match from AJPW on youtube...It's awesome.


----------



## topper1

bubz123 said:


> I've yet to see it. Is that the best match between the two teams?


Ditch believes it's in the bottom half between the two teams lol.

6/9/95 is commenly considered the best between the two teams and in a lot of people's mind the best match ever.


----------



## antoniomare007

lol yeah, I may have mixed the dates .

wichever has one legged Kobashi throwing himself to save Misawa from a beating is the one I'm talking about.


----------



## Yeah1993

tboneangle said:


> Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada
> AJPW Triple Crown, June 3, 1994
> 
> Heard this is supposedly the best match ever. Should i watch it? i think i may have before like 3 years ago and got bored tho


That's my best match ever, and it was before I'd learnt about all of the back-stuff to it. They play off of the Tenryu/Jumbo match from 89 (Jumbo being Misawa's torch passer and Tenryu being Kawada's mentor) and Misawa pulls out finishers he hadn't used in three years to try to put Kawada away. I'm totally willing to bet I'm missing piles of stuff as well. 

Like I've said earlier this shit can be enjoyed without even knowing any backstory. It's just harder with this than something like WWE or ROH because I'm assuming most gys who wacth it on here don't speak Japanese. 



bubz123 said:


> I've yet to see it. Is that the best match between the two teams?


It's sensatioal but the June 9th 95 match is really far ahead of it and is the greatest tag match of all time. Hell fuck that it could it be the greatest *wrestling* match of all time. A lot of people think it is, I'd put it at No. 3 at worst.



antoniomare007 said:


> lol yeah, I may have mixed the dates .
> 
> wichever has one legged Kobashi throwing himself to save Misawa from a beating is the one I'm talking about.


That's the one. (Y)


----------



## Bubz

Ah I see. I'll watch both.


----------



## D'Angelo

I mixed the dates too :cuss:

So many great matches in AJPW in the 90s it's hard to keep a track of.


----------



## just1988

Off the top of my head I'll go

Bret Hart Vs. Owen Hart (multiple)
Bret Hart Vs. Steve Austin: Wrestlemania 13
Bryan Danielson Vs. Nigel McGuiness (multiple)
CM Punk Vs. John Cena: Money in the Bank 2011
Dudley Boys Vs. Edge & Christian Vs. Hardy Boyz: Summerslam 2000
Dudley Boys Vs. Hardy Boyz: Royal Rumble '99
Shawn Michaels Undertaker: Bad Blood, Mania 25 & 26
Triple H Vs. Cactus Jack: Royal Rumble 2000
Triple H Vs. Cactus Jack: No Way Out 2000
Triple H Vs. Undertaker: Mania 27


----------



## TelkEvolon

Burning vs Kensuke Office


----------



## McQueen

Violent By Design said:


> not a big fan of misawa vs tsuruta, I couldn't really get into it. I like their trio match though.


Which one or both. I personally think the 9/1/90 match is the better of the two. Its not as crisp of a match but Jumbo is rediculously good in it.

Maybe i'll make a list later. Would need to sort out some dates since a lot of my highest marked stuff is from Early/Mid 90's All Japan.


----------



## dk4life

This is my list of 5 star matches, there isn't any Puro, cause I'm not the biggest fan of them, and just can't get into it, I only really watch US stuff anyway, I'm really anal with lists, so I have alot of fun making them, anyway, enough talking here is my list, I love these matches and am going to spend this weekend watching them all over again!

WCW - Ricky Steamboat vs Ric Flair: 20 February 1989 - ChiTown Rumble
WCW - Ricky Steamboat vs Ric Flair: 2 April 1989 - Clash Of The Champions
WCW - Ricky Steamboat vs Ric Flair: 7 May 1989 - Wrestlewar
WCW - Terry Funk vs Ric Flair: 15 November 1989 - Clash Of The Champions IX
WWE - Razor Ramon vs Shawn Michaels: 20 March 1994 - WrestleMania X 
WWE - Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart : 20 March 1994 - Wrestlemania X
ECW - Eddie Guerrero vs. Dean Malenko: 5 April 1994 - Hostile City Showdown
WWE - Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart: 29 August 1994 - Summerslam
WWE - Steve Austin vs Bret Hart: 23 March 1997 - Wrestlemania XIII
WWE - Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker: 10 May 1997 - Bad Blood
WCW - Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio: 26 October 1997	- Halloween Havoc
ECW - Rob Van Dam vs Jerry Lynn: 16 May 1999 - Hardcore Heaven
WWE - Triple H vs Cactus Jack: 23 January 2000	- Royal Rumble
WWE - Triple H vs Steve Austin: 25 February 2001 - No Way Out
WWE - Edge And Christain vs The Hardy Boyz vs The Dudley Boyz: 1 April 2001 - WrestleMania X-Seven 
WWE - The Rock vs Steve Austin:	1 April 2001 - WrestleMania X-Seven 
WWE - Shawn Michaels vs Triple H: 19 August 2002 - Summerslam
WWE - Edge & Rey Mysterio vs. Kurt Angle& Chris Benoit: 20 October 2002 - No Mercy
WWE - Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle: 19 January 2003 - Royal Rumble
WWE - Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels vs Triple H: 14 March 2004 - Wrestlemania XX
ROH - Samoa Joe vs. CM Punk: 16 October 2004 - Joe vs. Punk II
WWE - Kurt Angle vs. Shawn Michaels: 3 April 2005 - Wrestlemania 21
TNA - AJ Styles vs Samoa Joe vs Christopher Daniels: 11 September 2005 - Unbreakable
ROH - Samoa Joe vs Kenta Kobashi: 1 October 2005 - Joe vs Kobashi
ROH - Blood Generation vs Do Fixer: 31 March 2006 - Supercard Of Honor
ROH - Dragon Kid & Genki Horiguchi & Ryo Saito vs. CIMA & Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino: 31 March 2006 - Supercard Of Honor
ROH - Nigel McGuinness vs Bryan Danielson: 12 August 2006 - Unified
ROH - KENTA vs Bryan Danielson: 16 September 2006 - Glory By Honor V, Night 2
WWE - Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels: 5 April 2009 - WrestleMania 25
ROH - American Wolves vs. Bryan Danielson and Tyler Black: 18 April 2009 - Tag Title Classic
WWE - Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels: 28 March 2010 - Wrestlemania 26
TNA - Kurt Angle vs Mr Anderson: 18 April 2010 - Lockdown
ROH - Kevin Steen vs El Generico: 18 December 2010 - Final Battle
WWE - John Cena vs CM Punk: 17 July 2011 - Money In The Bank


----------



## Violent By Design

McQueen said:


> Which one or both. I personally think the 9/1/90 match is the better of the two. Its not as crisp of a match but Jumbo is rediculously good in it.
> 
> Maybe i'll make a list later. Would need to sort out some dates since a lot of my highest marked stuff is from Early/Mid 90's All Japan.


8/6/90


----------



## Bubz

*Misawa/Kobashi vs Kawada/Taue - 9/6/95*

Sweet Jesus. This is my new favorite match ever. Kobashi just constantly trying to protect Misawa despite his leg was fucking amazing. Was kobashi legit injured here? The tape around his leg was huge.

I've never watched so much awesome wrestling in 2 days before. This match, Misawa/Kawada 94 and Jumbo/Misawa 9/1/90 are now at the top of my list. I never used to be able to get into AJPW as recently as about 2 years ago, Jesus was I missing out or what?


----------



## J-Truth

I only started watching in 2005. And even then, I didn't start watching Pay-Per-View's till WrestleMania last year, but i'll list my 5 5-star matches. I've watched some matches on youtube.

Rock vs. Stone Cold, WrestleMania X7
Shawn Michaels vs. Ric Flair, WrestleMania 24
Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker, WrestleMania 25
Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker, WrestleMania 26
CM Punk vs. John Cena, Money In THe Bank 2011


----------



## New Blood

I stopped using the 5-star system around the end of 2009 when I began to watch more lucha and understand the style and watched older wrestling that came before the system along with British and BattlArts/UWF-i style wrestling and realized that the 5-star system for me is more centered to modern (mid-80s on) American/Japanese wrestling. Andre/Hansen is my favorite match but how could one rate that as there's not much wrestling at all being used, it's chaotic in structure and it ends in a double DQ. Even if the ending made sense, a lot of people would see that it loses points just because of it.

Instead of reiterating alot of the matches that have been put up already, here are some that I've seen since I had dropped the system and thought could be contenders for 5-stars.

NJPW vs. UWF Gauntlet Elimination Match [4/19/84]
NJPW vs. UWF Elimination Tag Match [3/26/86]
Ric Flair vs. Jumbo Tsuruta [6/8/83]
El Hijo del Santo vs. ***** Casas [7/18/87 & 9/19/97]
Cicloncito Ramirez vs. Damiancito El Guerrero [1/7/97]
El Dandy vs. ***** Casas [7/5/92]
16-Man Cibernetico Match [4/18/97]


----------



## jawbreaker

dk4life said:


> ROH - Blood Generation vs Do Fixer: 31 March 2006 - Supercard Of Honor
> ROH - Dragon Kid & Genki Horiguchi & Ryo Saito vs. CIMA & Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino: 31 March 2006 - Supercard Of Honor


um.


----------



## antoniomare007

Yeah1993 said:


> That's my best match ever, and it was before I'd learnt about all of the back-stuff to it. They play off of the Tenryu/Jumbo match from 89 (Jumbo being Misawa's torch passer and Tenryu being Kawada's mentor) and Misawa pulls out finishers he hadn't used in three years to try to put Kawada away. I'm totally willing to bet I'm missing piles of stuff as well.


:agree:

3/6/94 is an amazing match regardless of the backstory. But to me, that's one of the few matches were watching a couple of their previous singles and tag encounters REALLY adds to the enjoyment of the match. 

Stuff like Misawa working Kawada's leg (and getting a reaction out of it) or Kawada kicking out of the Tiger Suplex is what makes 3/6/94 the GOAT match, IMO.


----------



## Yeah1993

Totally forgot aboout the whole deal with Kawada's leg. Ah fuck this I may go off and watch it right nw.


----------



## McQueen

Next person who reverses the dates to the non-American way goes on my kill list.


----------



## FITZ

McQueen said:


> Next person who reverses the dates to the non-American way goes on my kill list.


Yeah I have no idea what date most of these matches are on because I don't know if they're written the right (or I guess you could call it the American) way or not. 

Flair/Steamboat (I only gave one of them 5* and I really can't remember which one). 
Shawn/Undertaker WM 26
Danielson/Morishima Fight Without Honor
ROH/CZW Cage of Death 
Austin/Triple H 3 Stages of Hell 
Benoit/Triple H/HBK WM 20 
Austin/Hart Submission Match WM13
Punk/Joe II 



I feel like I gave more matches 5*s but I'm really struggling to thin of them. I'm also aware that there are plenty of Japanese matches that would be worthy of a 5* rating but I don't think I've seen more than 25 Japanese matches that are over 20 minutes long. I also have a terrible habit of falling asleep while watching Puro.


----------



## TelkEvolon

McQueen said:


> Next person who reverses the dates to the non-American way goes on my kill list.


Day/Month/Year FTW!


----------



## Ali Dia

TelkEvolon said:


> Day/Month/Year FTW!


damn straight


----------



## NorthernLights

Great lists. I just started archiving matches last week, so my list is extremely bare despite having seen most of the Misawa/Kobashi/Kawada classics. I guess that just means I'll have to rewatch them!

I have 121 matches archived so far, 6 of those being ***** matches. Those matches, listed in order, are:

Month/Day/Year - Promotion Card, Match Type - Participants

03/14/04 WWE Wrestlemania 20, World Heavyweight Title Triple Threat ---	Chris Benoit vs. Triple H (c) vs. Shawn Michaels
10/26/97 WCW Halloween Havoc, WCW Cruiserweight Mask vs. Title	--------	Rey Mysterio vs. Eddie Guerrero (c) 
09/11/05 TNA Unbreakable, TNA X-Division Title Triple Threat	----------	AJ Styles vs. Christopher Daniels (c) vs. Samoa Joe 
03/29/87 WWF Wrestlemania 3, Intercontinental Title -------------------	Ricky Steamboat vs. Randy Savage (c)
02/20/89 NWA Chi-Town Rumble, NWA World's Heavyweight Title	-----------	Ricky Steamboat vs. Ric Flair (c)
03/31/06 ROH Supercard of Honor, Trios --------------------------------	Ryo Saito & Genki Horiguchi & Dragon Kid vs. CIMA & Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino


----------



## McQueen

TelkEvolon said:


> Day/Month/Year FTW!


Only for peasants.


----------



## flag sabbath

The AJPW guys excelled at making each other look badass by selling their opponent's offence like it really bloody hurt. Nowadays, too many wrestlers try to make themselves look badass by no-selling ad nauseum. It's nowhere near as effective.


----------



## Cactus

I watched Misawa vs Kawada and Michaels vs 'Taker HiaC last night...

My thoughts:

*Misawa vs Kawada*
While I loved this match, GOAT is a bit of a stretch (Kobashi vs Misawa from '03 gets that from me). It was a 5 star classic and I'd recommend it to anyone who wants to get into puro. The strike sequence at the end was epic.

*Michaels vs 'Taker* 
I saw people calling this the GOAT as well. I really don't see why. They match at 'Mania 25 was better. Don't get me wrong, it's a brilliant match, much better their 'Mania 26 encounter, but I wouldn't go 5 star. Maybe ****1/2.

Both matches recommended though.


----------



## Ali Dia

I personally thought HBK/Taker at WM 26 was better by a long way. I had it ****1/2 in comparison to WM 25 i had it at ****. Needless to see after i watched the WM 25 match and came on the net my mind was blown when i saw so many people go 5 stars.


----------



## Cactus

R.Scorpio said:


> I personally thought HBK/Taker at WM 26 was better by a long way. I had it ****1/2 in comparison to WM 25 i had it at ****. Needless to see after i watched the WM 25 match and came on the net my mind was blown when i saw so many people go 5 stars.


The first 10-15 minutes of their 'Mania 26 was perfect and could of easily topped 'Mania 25 if they didn't turn the match into a complete finisher-fest. That kinda ruined it from being 5 stars to me.

WM25: *****
WM26: ****1/4


----------



## Ali Dia

You didnt think WM 25 was a finisher fest? It was more of a finisher fest than WM 26. And the thing i hated most about WM 25 match was the lopsided finisher count. Taker would hit 3 major moves before HBK would hit one making HBK's nearfall pointless and ineffective. And then Taker would again dominate before HBK would hit the superkick again making that nearfall pointless. At least thats how i felt.


----------



## Cactus

R.Scorpio said:


> You didnt think WM 25 was a finisher fest? It was more of a finisher fest than WM 26. And the thing i hated most about WM 25 match was the lopsided finisher count. Taker would hit 3 major moves before HBK would hit one making HBK's nearfall pointless and ineffective. And then Taker would again dominate before HBK would hit the superkick again making that nearfall pointless. At least thats how i felt.


Yeah. But what I remembered of 26, they wouldn't hit a finisher, get back up, hit and different one, repeat until the leaping Tombstone.

25 had some innovative spots to line up for the finisher, like the moonsault to Tombstone counter.

In all fairness, it's been a year since I watch the 25 match, and this was before I got into the rating shit. I'll give it a re watch some when and see if I feel the same. I just remember watching 26 and thinking 'All the hype for that?,' (I didn't watch 25 first, wasn't a fan at the time, I just heard the hype about it) and then I watch 25 and was blown away.


----------



## Concrete

I need to start watching some of these matches pronto. I feel so deprived.


----------



## Jbardo

WWF/E

Bret Hart v Steve Austin - Survivor Series 1996
Bret Hart v Steve Austin - Wrestlemania 13
Bret Hart v Owen Hart - Wrestlemania 10
Shawn Michaels v Kurt Angle - Wrestlemania 21
Shawn Michaels v Undertaker - Wrestlemania 25
Chris Benoit v Shawn Michaels v HHH
HHH v Cactus Jack - Royal Rumble 2000
HHH v Steve Austin - No Way out 2001




Others

Kawada v Misawa 6/94
Kawada & Taue v Misawa & Kobashi 9/95(i think)
Danielson v Kenta - Glory 2006
Eddie Guerrero v Rey Mysterio - Halloween Havoc 1997
Jushin Liger v El Samurai - 1992
Jushin Liger v Great Sasuke - Super J Cup 1994
Chris Benoit v Great Sasuke - Super J Cup 1994


----------



## Jbardo

topper1 said:


> Ditch believes it's in the bottom half between the two teams lol.
> 
> 6/9/95 is commenly considered the best between the two teams and in a lot of people's mind the best match ever.


Watched this a few weeks ago, easily the best tag match i have ever seen.


----------



## Ethan619

Still have ALOT of matches to watch but my 5 star list currently looks like this

Triple H vs. ‘Stone Cold’ Steve Austin (3 Stages of Hell) (No Way Out 2001)
Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania 21)
Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker (Wrestlemania 25)
Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker (Hell in a Cell) (Bad Blood 1997)

Haven't seen the 3 stages of Hell match in a few years and the other 3 only just make the rating for me and could possibly go down to ****3/4 on a rewatch. Once again still have ALOT of matches to watch!!


----------



## Bubz

My updated list. Oh and it's Day/Month/Year just for you McQueen .

Misawa/Kobashi v Kawada/Taue (AJPW 9/6/95)
Misawa v Jumbo (AJPW 1/9/90)
Danielson/Black v American Wolves (ROH Tag Title Classic)
Misawa v Kawada (AJPW 3/6/94)
Bret vs Austin (WWE Wrestlemania 13)
Joe v Punk II (ROH Joe v Punk II)
Joe v Kobashi (ROH Joe v Kobashi)
Danielson v KENTA (ROH Driven 2007)
The Rock v Austin (WWE Wrestlemania 17)
Michaels v Jericho (WWE Wrestlemania 19)
Michaels v The Undertaker (WWE Wrestlemania 26)
HHH v Michaels v Benoit (WWE Wrestlemania 20)

Maybe on the list if I rewatch them...

Misawa v Kobashi (AJPW 97)
Danielson v Nigel (ROH Unified)
Danielson vs KENTA (ROH GBH V Night 2)
Austin v HHH (WWE No Way Out 2001)
Michaels v Angle (WWE Wrestlemania 21)
Michaels v Flair (WWE Wrestlemania 24)
Black v Richards (ROH DBD VIII)
Maybe on the list if I watched again...


----------



## McQueen

No motherfucker.


----------



## Tanner1495

Just a quick kind of off topic question. How do you guys keep your ratings organized? Lime on a Word Document or notebook or what?


----------



## CM Putnam

WWF/WWE

Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart - Wrestlemania X
Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon - Wrestlemania X
Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker - In Your House: Badd Blood
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit - Royal Rumble 2003
Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker - Wrestlemania XXVI
CM Punk vs. John Cena - Money In The Bank 2011

WCW

All 3 of the '89 Flair Steamboat Matches
Ric Flair vs. Terry Funk - I Quit

ROH

CM Punk vs. Samoa Joe - Joe vs. Punk II
Do Fixer vs. Blood Generation - Supercard of Honor
Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness - Unified
The Briscoes vs. Kevin Steen and El Generico - Man Up

Puro

Kobashi/ Misawa vs. Taue/Kawada - 6/9/95
Misawa vs. Kawada
Kobashi vs. Misawa - NOAH 2003

TNA

Samoa Joe vs. A.J. Styles vs. Christopher Daniels - Unbreakable


----------



## smitlick

Tanner1495 said:


> Just a quick kind of off topic question. How do you guys keep your ratings organized? Lime on a Word Document or notebook or what?


I have a couple of notepad documents with various years plus my blog in my signature...


----------



## Bubz

I didn't have an actual list until a few days ago, just kind of remembered what matches I had at 5 stars.


----------



## Ethan619

Tanner1495 said:


> Just a quick kind of off topic question. How do you guys keep your ratings organized? Lime on a Word Document or notebook or what?


I just use a word document and have it split into two sections. First I have all my ***+ matches organized in order from best to worst. Then I have the next section for all the matches that I have rated in chronological order.


----------



## Bubz

I've been doing alot of rewatching these last few days.

I'm adding Ki vs KENTA to my list. I can't remember it being so fucking awesome.


----------



## Cactus

Finally got around to doing my list...

*WWF/E:*
Ricky Steamboat Vs Randy Savage (3/29/1987)
Bret Hart Vs Mr. Perfect (6/13/1993)
Cage Match: Owen Hart Vs Bret Hart (8/29/1994)
Submission Match: Stone Cold Steve Austin Vs Bret Hart (3/23/1997)
Hell in a Cell Match: Mankind Vs Undertaker (6/28/1998)
TLC Match: The Hardyz Vs Edge & Christian Vs The Dudley Boyz (8/27/2000)
Steve Austin Vs The Rock (4/1/2001)
Chris Benoit Vs Kurt Angle (1/19/2003)
Shawn Michaels Vs Ric Flair (3/30/2008)
Shawn Michaels Vs Undertaker (4/5/2009)
John Cena Vs CM Punk (7/17/2011)

*ROH:*
Samoa Joe Vs Kenta Kobashi (10/1/05)

*AJPW:*
Jumbo Tsurata Vs Mitsuharu Misawa (6/8/1990)
Dan Kroffat & Doug Furnas Vs Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi
Kikuchi (5/25/1992)
Masanobu Fuchi & Yoshinari Ogawa Vs Kenta Kobashi &
Tsuyoshi Kikuchi (7/5/1992)
Steve Williams Vs Kenta Kobashi (8/31/1993)
Toshiaki Kawada Vs Mitsuharu Misawa (3/6/1994)
Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi & Satoru Asako vs. Toshiaki
Kawada & Akira Taue & Tamon Honda (6/30/1995)
Kenta Kobashi Vs Mitsuharu Misawa (10/31/1998)

*NJPW:*
Tiger Mask Vs The Dynamite Kid (4/23/1983)
Wild Pegasus Vs The Great Sasuke (4/16/1994)

*NOAH:*
Kenta Kobashi Vs Mitsuharu Misawa (3/1/2003)
Kenta Kobashi Vs Jun Akiyama (7/10/2004)

*Joshi:*
Aja Kong Vs Manami Toyota (11/20/1994)

I still got a lot more matches to watch before I've done this list. I plan to watch all of Dave Meltzer's 5 Star matches, some of the matches suggested here and matches that I've seen but haven't given a proper rating too. Expect a full update in a few weeks.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

bubz123 said:


> *Misawa/Kobashi vs Kawada/Taue - 9/6/95*
> 
> Sweet Jesus. This is my new favorite match ever. Kobashi just constantly trying to protect Misawa despite his leg was fucking amazing. Was kobashi legit injured here? The tape around his leg was huge.
> 
> I've never watched so much awesome wrestling in 2 days before. This match, Misawa/Kawada 94 and Jumbo/Misawa 9/1/90 are now at the top of my list. I never used to be able to get into AJPW as recently as about 2 years ago, Jesus was I missing out or what?


(Y)

What makes the match even better is if you watch their match in 1993 for the Real World Tag Final, which can be found here: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=GUH7A729

Kawada gets his leg obliterated and sells it like a champ, makes his desire to tear Kobashi's leg from his body in the 1995 tag all the more better.

Echoing the statement about watching a few of these matches in order to see how they play off of the past battles, not a necessity for every match but certain matches in long rivalries benefit when you see how they take a past match and do a callback spot.


----------



## McQueen

I haven't watched *6/9/95* in a while. I probably should rewatch it. Best match ever I think.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

McQueen said:


> I haven't watched *6/9/95* in a while. I probably should rewatch it. Best match ever I think.


Certainly best tag ever for me, and I'd only think of the Final Conflict Tag 1983 in the Cage to be the closest challenger to that. Of course if we're taken all of forms of tag matches, then 20/04/1991 and 19/10/1990 are very close.

As for best match ever, only Kawada vs Misawa 3/6/1994 touches it from Japan IMO, maybe Flair vs Steamboat COTC as another contender. Everything just clicked in that match and you had arguably 4 of the best ever in their primes (in Taue's case a resurgance) and it showed.


----------



## McQueen

6/3/94 is really close and I hold the Austin/Hart Wrestlemania match in really high regard too. Can't go wrong with the Flair/Steamboat '89 stuff either but I like the Flair/Funk matches a little more since Funk is my GOAT. Guy could draw me into his matches like no one else.

Taue when he was able to bring his A-game is also one of the funnest guys to watch.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

McQueen said:


> 6/3/94 is really close and I hold the Austin/Hart Wrestlemania match in really high regard too. Can't go wrong with the Flair/Steamboat '89 stuff either but I like the Flair/Funk matches a little more since Funk is my GOAT. Guy could draw me into his matches like no one else.
> 
> Taue when he was able to bring his A-game is also one of the funnest guys to watch.


I loved the Funk vs Flair GAB match when I watched it for a WCW ballot, haven't seen the I Quit in forever but I can't imagine it not rivalling GAB. Recently saw Funk vs Steamboat in 89 and Funk was immense as the insane psycho with no regard for his or Steamboat's well being, one of the best DQ endings as well.

Taue has the unique ability to me of never standing out as much during one of the more infamous tags (bar when he and Kawada try to make the other impotent) but then when I think back about what was mostly good about it, more often than not he ends up being maybe the best guy in the match or very very close to being the best. 

Still not seen Kawada vs Taue 1993 and hoping to change that soon.


----------



## McQueen

93' Champions Carnival?


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Think so, its the match where they earn each others respect and then set about crippling Misawa and Kobashi. I have the link to it but for some reason have never gotten around to watching it.


----------



## McQueen

I'm pretty sure i've watched that but it was years ago. I'm positive Ditch has it. I know i've watched a match where they duked it out in 91' during the Jumbo/Misawa and crew fued and Kawada knocked out Taues ass with a VICIOUS forearm to the back of the head which is all kinds of badassery, then they became friends and owned as a tag team.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Yeah that's the 1991 match and featured Taue blading like a madman, the finish was just insane. Probably the stiffest clothesline I've seen, although Vader vs Kawada 2000 rivals it.

The 1993 singles match is apparently where they find new found respect and then form the team. They've got quite a few matches on 'the site' and they're usually always stiff and awesome.


----------



## McQueen

Yeah i'm going to watch it after I go get some lunch. i'm pretty sure i've seen it before though.


----------



## Bubz

Segunda Caida said:


> Certainly best tag ever for me, and I'd only think of the Final Conflict Tag 1983 in the Cage to be the closest challenger to that. Of course if we're taken all of forms of tag matches, then 20/04/1991 and 19/10/1990 are very close.
> 
> As for best match ever, only Kawada vs Misawa 3/6/1994 touches it from Japan IMO, maybe Flair vs Steamboat COTC as another contender. Everything just clicked in that match and you had arguably 4 of the best ever in their primes (in Taue's case a resurgance) and it showed.


6/9/95 (month/day/year for you lovely folk) is probably my favorite match ever, I definitely prefer it over Kwada/Misawa 94.

I like this thread, I thought we needed a thread just to discuss our favorite matches for a while.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I said before, but if you watch the 1993 Tag (link is on the other page) you'll love the 1995 tag even more given how they play off of the leg work in the 1993 tag as well as Kawada's inability to put away Misawa which had been burning at him since 1992.

Plus the 1993 tag is fucking awesome.


----------



## McQueen

Its pretty hard to not find good shit from '93 All Japan. Maybe its the mark in me but its pretty tough to find a better single year from any promotion.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

1985 Mid South and 1992 WCW are about the only years I can think of which have enough great matches throughout the year to rival AJPW in 1993, not seen enough prime CMLL but I think Andy was high on their 1997.

Hansen vs Kawada, Kobashi vs Hansen x2 and numerous tags, and Taue vs Kawada for the final time. Then again it's hard to not find a great year from AJPW from around 89-97. Insanely great consistent period for wrestling


----------



## Tanner1495

I'm defiantly watching some '93 All Japan tonight. Is there anywhere I could find some '85 Mid South or some '92 WCW for future references?


----------



## flag sabbath

Just watched Tenryu vs Tsuruta for the Triple Crown from June 1989 & their chemistry is every bit as intense as Flair, Steamboat & Funk's from that year. 

The wrestling has evolved significantly from the title unification bouts with Brody & Hansen which preceded this - it's way more fluid, incredibly physical & the selling has a great realistic edge to it. Plus the crowd is white hot - they care more about these two than their families, friends, pets & sports teams.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Tanner1495 said:


> I'm defiantly watching some '93 All Japan tonight. Is there anywhere I could find some '85 Mid South or some '92 WCW for future references?


Seabs megapost has a lot of Mid South and WCW, both are also on dailymotion and youtube in various capacity. Seabs and KingCal also both have a Mid South set, 12 discs for something like £10, significantly cheaper than buying from the guy who made the original.


----------



## Bubz

Segunda Caida said:


> I said before, but if you watch the 1993 Tag (link is on the other page) you'll love the 1995 tag even more given how they play off of the leg work in the 1993 tag as well as Kawada's inability to put away Misawa which had been burning at him since 1992.
> 
> Plus the 1993 tag is fucking awesome.


Going to get around to that tonight I think. I'm pretty new to AJPW so trying to catch up with it is hard and there are so many different variations of opponents/matches that it gets pretty confusuing. I'm sure I could watch pretty much all of the matches involving Misawa, Kobashi, Kawada, Taue and Jumbo and they would be awesome though.

Thanks for the link by the way (Y).


----------



## WOOLCOCK

bubz123 said:


> Going to get around to that tonight I think. I'm pretty new to AJPW so trying to catch up with it is hard and there are so many different variations of opponents/matches that it gets pretty confusuing. I'm sure I could watch pretty much all of the matches involving Misawa, Kobashi, Kawada, Taue and Jumbo and they would be awesome though.


well essentially the main players around this time are Misawa, Kawada, Kobashi, Taue and then the likes of Fuchi, Kikuchi and some Americans like Hansen and Dr Death Steve Williams

Kawada was Misawa's main tag partner during the Misawa/Kawada/Kobashi vs Jumbo/Taue/Fuchi feud. Kawada and Taue had their own rivalry and Kobashi was the young underdog who'd come through the ranks with Misawa and Kawada but wasn't at their level yet. Fuchi was the ally of Jumbo and Taue and primarily worked with Kobashi during the tags.

Eventually Kawada and Taue finished their feud in 1993, they then aligned and become 'The Holy Demon Army'. Kobashi then stepped up to be Misawa's second man and from there these 4 began their feud which featured Kawada finally trying to beat Misawa (3/6/94) and Kobashi gradually becoming a bigger force in the company through his matches vs Hansen and Williams and occasionally against Kawada and Misawa. Eventually Kobashi would become the next force to challenge Misawa culminating in epic battles spawning 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999 and then later 2003.

Essentially all you need to know is somewhere down the line Misawa and Kawada become heated rivals, Kobashi moves from rookie to emerging star and finally becomes the second man to Misawa after Kawada leaves the unit, Taue and Kawada become a great tag team after a 2 year on and off feud and it ends with Misawa, Kobashi and Kawada being the clear trio to lead AJPW into a new era.


----------



## Bubz

Awesome, thanks for that. Clears a lot up. Watching the matches, it's crazy how over Misawa is, even before he became the top guy.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

bubz123 said:


> Awesome, thanks for that. Clears a lot up. Watching the matches, it's crazy how over Misawa is, even before he became the top guy.


He used to be Tiger Mask II, then after one particular match where the heels pissed him off he motioned to Kawada to unmask him, he then promptly through the mask at them and the reaction was immense. From there Baba became aware Jumbo was slowing down in health and that Misawa was to become the new star. Misawa started as a junior and it wasn't till around 1992-1993 IMO where he finally became the star heavyweight and worked a more fitting style. You'll see he still displays some of his junior ability every now and then though.

Kobashi's rise is probably the best though in terms of sympathy. He initially got booked by Baba to lose something like his first 60 matches to build sympathy and then spent the best part of his rookie phase being the punching bag in the Misawa v Jumbo 6 man tags. He slowly worked with Jumbo, the Can Am Express (watch their 25/5/92 match vs Kobashi and Kikuchi in seabs's megapost), Hansen, Williams etc and finally worked Misawa in tournaments and then Kawada and Taue. By about 1995 he was becoming the star Kawada/Misawa were in 1991 and then became a huge star around 1997 up until NOAH was formed.


----------



## Henry Hill

I've not seen nearly enough old stuff but this is my list as it stands:

Dynamite Kid vs Tiger Mask (82)

Bret Hart vs Owen Hart (Wrestlemania X, 94)

Cage Match: Bret Hart vs Owen Hart (Summerslam, 94)

Hell in a cell: Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker (Bad Blood, 97)

Street Fight: Triple H vs Cactus Jack (Royal Rumble, 00)

Rey Mysterio and Edge vs Chris Benoit and Kurt Angle (No Mercy, 02)

Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle (Royal Rumble 03)

AJ Styles vs Samoa Joe vs Christopher Daniels (Unbreakable, 05)

Do Fixer vs Blood Generation (06?)

Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXV, 09)


----------



## Bubz

I just finished the 1993 tag _Segunda_. Bloody amazing. This now honestly becomes my second favorite match ever after the 95 tag. It really adds to the story alot of the 95 tag and makes that one seem better like you said, so to anybody planning on watching these I reccomend you definitely watch this one first.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Glad to hear, Kawada's selling of the leg is perhaps the best bit of limb selling I've ever seen, Kobashi in the 1995 tag is about as good a contender as I can think of off the top of my head.

Kawada's supreme selling of being knocked out and weakened throughout his matches will become more evident the more you watch of him, guy was an incredibly gifted seller who made even the stiffest elbow/kick look even more ungodly stiff.

There's many more important matches for you to get around to whenever you have time, I recall you enjoying Jumbo vs Misawa but I can't recall if you saw the first or second match. After the rematch they begin the epic 6 man tags starting on 19/10/1990 and going through 1991 and into 1992. A lot are on Youtube and in Seabs's megapost, if by any chance the links are down in seabs's megapost then I should have some additional links for you.

It will be lucha for you after you become an AJPW addict btw (Y)


----------



## Bubz

Yeah, Kawadas selling was easily the best i've ever seen, he sold the leg like death from the very first strike thrown at it. The guy is such a badass. Oh, and Misawa has THE best rolling elbow EVER! Sorry Hero.

I love both of the Misawa/Jumbo matches, but the second one is my personal favorite, even if the first was the more historically important of the two. Jumbo going batshit crazy on Misawas face with strikes was scary as hell.

Which would you say is the best Misawa vs Kobashi match? I've seen the 97 match and it was rather great, and I saw the 99 one a while ago but can't really remember much from it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Personally I consider 20/1/1997 to be their best. I recall really enjoying 31/10/1998 (its October 1998 but I can't recall if its the 31st) and one 1999 match. Never really enjoyed the 2003 match as much as others, think it suffered a tad from the style becoming more 'headrops for the sake of headrops' and became a little more spotty than in the mid 90s where the finisher kick outs were big deals because they utilised their moveset and protected it to keep reactions strong.

Part of what I love about mid 90s Japan is you have Kawada powerbombing Misawa (and Kawada has an infamous powerbomb), numerous things run through my head :

Misawa's kicking out of this, he's Misawa for fuck sake.
Oh shit its Kawada's powerbomb and that's good enough to beat anyone, Misawa included.

There's a real sense of Misawa being able to kick out of his opponent's best stuff and not diminish its credibility because he's MISAWA, whilst at the same time he mixes up his finishers so that he can give a guy the rub by having him kick out of his older finishers. I recall he once used an elbow and then a bridging half nelson suplex to pin Kobashi, then in another match he hadn't weakened Kobashi enough so when he used the same briding suplex Kobashi could kick out but still leave you thinking the move was still credible if Kobashi was weaker. Stuff like that always makes me appreciate the near falls better than in the indies where they don't take the time to protect their best finishers and don't have the same name value in being able to kick out of bigger stuff because the audience treats them as Gods. 

I too prefer the second Jumbo vs Misawa match. Jumbo is terrific as the old dog realising he has to utilise every bag of tricks in the arsenal to maintain his dominance as the man in the company.


----------



## antoniomare007

you need to watch Kawada vs Misawa Champions Carnival 95' match (not great, but Misawa's orbital bone get broken by Kawada in the firsts 2 minutes iirc) and then the Final between Misawa and Taue, shit's beautiful.

To me, after 1/20/97, All Japan began declining a little bit (i mean, it was still amazing, but not consistent greatness as before) and focusing more on headrops. Vader/Misawa being the exception IMO.



> He used to be Tiger Mask II, then after one particular match where the heels pissed him off he motioned to Kawada to unmask him, he then promptly through the mask at them and the reaction was immense. From there Baba became aware Jumbo was slowing down in health and that Misawa was to become the new star.


actually, Baba had to push a new guy at that time because Tenryu left All Japan for SWS. Misawa was the chosen one but Baba didn't think he was gonna be THAT over once he took his mask off. In fact the plan was for Jumbo to win their first encounter but people were chanting Misawa's name even before the show started, and his merch was selling like crazy so Baba decided to change the outcome of the match at the last minute.

Jumbo suggested to have a non-finish but Baba just send him a message saying "No".


----------



## Bubz

I feel the exact same way about their 2003 match. It just seemed like a finisher fest for about 20 minutes of it, wasn't a fan of it at all really. Some spots were sick as hell though like the tiger suplex off the stage. Why the fuck anybody would take a bump like that is beyond me, Kobashi seems to have always taken the sickest bumps though, crazy bastard lol.

Just looking through Seabs post of all AJPW won 5* matches, I noticed the second Misawa/Jumbo match isn't there, pretty surprising considering it is just as good as most of the other matches on there.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

antoniomare007 said:


> you need to watch Kawada vs Misawa Champions Carnival match (not great, but Misawa's orbital bone get broken by Kawada in the firsts 2 minutes iirc) and then the Final between Misawa and Taue, shit's beautiful.
> 
> 
> actually, Baba had to push a new guy at that time because Tenryu left All Japan for SWS. Misawa was the chosen one but Baba didn't think he was gonna be THAT over once he took his mask off. In fact the plan was for Jumbo to win their first encounter but people were chanting Misawa's name even before the show started, and his merch was selling like crazy so Baba decided to change the outcome of the match at the last minute.
> 
> Jumbo suggested to have a non-finish but Baba just send him a message saying "No".


Cheers for the correction, I thought after posting there may be more to the story than the basic outline I listed but couldn't recall enough specifics. I do recall the story though of Baba walking round the building and sensing the crowd wanted the big upset and couldn't pass up such an opportunity. Man was a hell of a booker.

Also which Champions Carnival are you referring to? Mind has gone blank after all this AJPW talk lol, too many dates and tournaments to recall at 1.45am


----------



## Bubz

antoniomare007 said:


> you need to watch Kawada vs Misawa Champions Carnival match (not great, but Misawa's orbital bone get broken by Kawada in the firsts 2 minutes iirc) and then *the Final between Misawa and Taue*, shit's beautiful.
> 
> To me, after 1/20/97, All Japan began declining a little bit (i mean, it was still amazing, but not consistent greatness as before) and focusing more on headrops. Vader/Misawa being the exception IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> actually, Baba had to push a new guy at that time because Tenryu left All Japan for SWS. Misawa was the chosen one but Baba didn't think he was gonna be THAT over once he took his mask off. In fact the plan was for Jumbo to win their first encounter but people were chanting Misawa's name even before the show started, and his merch was selling like crazy so Baba decided to change the outcome of the match at the last minute.
> 
> Jumbo suggested to have a non-finish but Baba just send him a message saying "No".


Cheers for the reccomendation, what year is that from?


----------



## antoniomare007

oops, I'm talking about the 1995 CC.

That and the Vader match at the Baba Memorial Show are the perfect definition of Misawa's character and what made him so loved by the fans as this comeback God.


----------



## universo.wrestling

HBK vs. HHH - 3 Stages of hell


----------



## Yeah1993

I honestly don't think any of the Misawa/Konashi's are close to 20/1/97. Still gotta see the one that happened the day of Wrestlemania 12 and the April (I think) 2000 one though.


----------



## NorthernLights

I'm loving the wealth of information in this thread. I have so much catching up to do.

I really liked Akiyama from the same Misawa/Kobashi/Kawada AJPW time period. He's never been considered on that same tier as the others, but I've always regarded him as a personal favorite.


----------



## Violent By Design

Would anyone here give 5 stars to some of the griddy NWA style matches? I can't really say there is one thing wrong with Tully Blanchard vs Magnum T.A., I quit Match at Starrcade. That was an amazing match, I always wondered why Meltzer never gave it 5 stars.


----------



## CM Skittle

HBK vs. Bret Hart - Wrestlemania - Iron Man Match
HBK vs. Undertaker - Hell in a Cell
HBK vs. Undertaker - Wrestlemania 25
Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness - Unified
Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA - Glory by Honor V Night 2
CM Punk vs. Samoa Joe II - Joe vs. Punk II
CM Punk vs. Austin Aries - Death Before Dishonor III
CM Punk vs. John Cena - Money in the Bank
Davey Richards vs. KENTA - Supercard of Honor IV
Davey Richards vs. Eddie Edwards - Best in the World
Davey Richards vs. Tyler Black - Death Before Dishonor VIII
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit - Royal Rumble
Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer - Supercard of Honor II - Cage Match
The Briscoes vs. Kevin Steen and El Generico - Man Up - Ladder War
Kevin Steen vs. El Generico - Final Battle 2010

Umm.. I think that's all of them but I might be forgetting some!


----------



## McQueen

Violent By Design said:


> Would anyone here give 5 stars to some of the griddy NWA style matches? I can't really say there is one thing wrong with Tully Blanchard vs Magnum T.A., I quit Match at Starrcade. That was an amazing match, I always wondered why Meltzer never gave it 5 stars.


I'm pretty sure he did.


----------



## Violent By Design

Anyone have a link to the match where Kawada and Taue finally gain respect for each other?


----------



## Bubz

Yeah1993 said:


> I honestly don't think any of the Misawa/Konashi's are close to 20/1/97. Still gotta see the one that happened the day of Wrestlemania 12 and the April (I think) 2000 one though.


Is this the one where Kobashi works Misawa' arm for like, the whole match, and then Kobashi takes one forearm to the arm and it does just as much damage as Kobashi did to Misawa' after working it for so long? I love how they made Misawa' forearm's so much more devastating than anyone else's.


----------



## Cactus

Holy shit. I've just seen the Misawa/Kobashi vs Taue/Kawada match on 06/09/1995. Jesus. I'd go and give it 6 stars. Yeah. I can. Best match I've ever seen.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

This All Japan mid 90s love makes me a very happy man.

And bubz I'm sure that is the match you're thinking of


----------



## Yeah1993

bubz123 said:


> Is this the one where Kobashi works Misawa' arm for like, the whole match, and then Kobashi takes one forearm to the arm and it does just as much damage as Kobashi did to Misawa' after working it for so long? I love how they made Misawa' forearm's so much more devastating than anyone else's.


I remember Kobashi working the arm, yeah. And I know (gonna shove it in spoiler tags just in case)



Spoiler:  hehsgdtkg



Misawa wins with an elbow


----------



## SLIW-StAr

Haven´t seen anyone posting this one:

Bryan Danielson vs. Christopher Daniels vs. Low-Ki on one of the first ROH shows! Thought it was better than Joe vs. Daniels vs. Styles and it was earlier, in 2002 or 2003, can´t remember.


----------



## Chismo

I will do my list later, but I just rewatched Samoa Joe vs. Daniels from GBH II, and it's still at five stars for me. I remember people calling me crazy for that. That match is brilliant.


----------



## Bubz

Kobashi/Kikuchi vs Kroffat/Furnas 25/5/92.

Amazing tag match. The crowd was unbelievable for this, they were going bat shit crazy for anything Kobashi or Kikuchi did, I mean literally jumping out of their seats. Very impressed with kroffat/Furnas, never seen them before. The nearfalls were epic.


----------



## dele

Here's a few that haven't been mentioned:

Jun Kasai vs Ryuji Ito - 11/20/2009 - Razor Cross Death Match

Mankind vs The Undertaker - HIAC (Yes, it gets the full five from me)


----------



## McQueen

bubz123 said:


> Kobashi/Kikuchi vs Kroffat/Furnas 25/5/92.
> 
> Amazing tag match. The crowd was unbelievable for this, they were going bat shit crazy for anything Kobashi or Kikuchi did, I mean literally jumping out of their seats. Very impressed with kroffat/Furnas, never seen them before. The nearfalls were epic.


Hohen whatever the fuck his lame ass username is and I fued over that match. He thinks its a *** 1/2 star match.



dele said:


> Here's a few that haven't been mentioned:
> 
> Jun Kasai vs Ryuji Ito - 11/20/2009 - Razor Cross Death Match
> 
> Mankind vs The Undertaker - HIAC (Yes, it gets the full five from me)


Am I the only one who thinks the Mankind/Taker HiaC isn't anything special? Once you've seen the two big spots from the match and strip it down all you have is about 5 minutes of two guys punching each other.


----------



## Chismo

I have Mankind/Taker HIAC at ****3/4. It's more than just two big spots. There was just something in the air (something else except Mankind, lol), the IT factor was incredible.


----------



## McQueen

I finally saw it for the first time a few years ago and felt massively letdown after all the hype over the years. To each their own I guess.


----------



## Bubz

McQueen said:


> Hohen whatever the fuck his lame ass username is and I fued over that match. He thinks its a **** 1/2* star match.
> 
> 
> 
> Am I the only one who thinks the Mankind/Taker HiaC isn't anything special? Once you've seen the two big spots from the match and strip it down all you have is about 5 minutes of two guys punching each other.


That's a ridiculous rating for that match. It's fucking awesome.

And yeah, I agree about Taker/Mankind, especially when you compare it the Taker/Michaels HIAC. It's entertaining but it isn't that great.


----------



## McQueen

He complains it has no backstory. Its a match over a title and both teams actually make it seem like the title is important because they go all out against each other. Whatever.


----------



## Violent By Design

I used to think Mankind vs Undertaker wasn't anything special, but from top to bottom it does give you quite a unique atmosphere. Listening to the commentary, and putting yourself back in 97 you have to respect that everyone was thinking Undertaker really killed Mankind. You really don't think that too often in wrestling, especially in WWE. It's not on my top 100 matches or anything, but I respect people who think it is a good match.

25/5/92 with Kobashi and that little Japanese dude is a great tag match. I watched it nearly a week ago, and the crowd is so hyped for it it's hard not to enjoy it.


----------



## McQueen

Kikuchi owns.


----------



## Bubz

Violent By Design said:


> I used to think Mankind vs Undertaker wasn't anything special, but from top to bottom it does give you quite a unique atmosphere. Listening to the commentary, and putting yourself back in 97 you have to respect that everyone was thinking Undertaker really killed Mankind. You really don't think that too often in wrestling, especially in WWE. It's not on my top 100 matches or anything, but I respect people who think it is a good match.
> 
> 25/5/92 with Kobashi and that little Japanese dude is a great tag match. I watched it nearly a week ago, and the crowd is so hyped for it it's hard not to enjoy it.


Yeah I can see why people love it so much, and the spots will always be remembered.

Lol! Little Japanese dude.


----------



## Cactus

The Kobashi and Kikuchi tag match is epic. 2nd best tag match of all time. (No.1 being Misawa/Kobashi vs Taue/Kawada from '95)

Mankind vs 'Taker in the cell gets 5 stars from me too. I used to think the same as the user above, but there is much more to it than that.


----------



## flag sabbath

I remember watching Taker vs Mankind in '98 & just feeling wrong about the whole thing. It's disturbing & fascinating that a guy would put himself through that (with his employer's approval no less), but I lost all interest in it as a match after the first bump.

Just watched the Kasai vs. Ito match out of sheer curiosity (& as a break from a weekend of '90s AJPW goodness). By death match standards it was very good & the crowd surely loved it, but between the moments of insanity, the wrestling was fairly pedestrian. From what little I've seen, it strikes me that too many death match wrestlers aren't particularly intense brawlers - they just plod from one set up to the next.

Whoever rated Kobashi & Kikuchi vs the Can-Ams ***1/2 obviously watched it with the sound off & his head in the ground. It's the greatest match with no back story I've seen.


----------



## antoniomare007

McQueen said:


> Am I the only one who thinks the Mankind/Taker HiaC isn't anything special? Once you've seen the two big spots from the match and strip it down all you have is about *5 minutes of two guys punching each other.*


...the fuck? YOU are complaining about wrestlers just punching each other?

and that match has plenty of other memorable stuff...Taker getting hit with a chair in mid air after doing a suicide dive or the thumbtacks spot. And getting over the fact that Foley is one crazy ass mofo.

I don't consider that match to be "GOAT" material but it is a lot more than just 2 big spots.


Also, after all this All Japan talk. We need an Akira Fukuzawa appreciation thread. I was watching Misawa vs Terry Gordy 91' for the nth time and still laugh my ass off when Misawa puts Gordy on a facelock and we get this from Fukuzawa:

"ITAA IIITAAAAA FAAACEE LOOOOOOCK!!!
FAAAAAAAAAAAAACEEEELOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

I still really like Undertaker/mankind HIAC. A MOTYC (lets face it, 1998 wasn't filled with many great matches when it comes to NA wrestling) no doubt, but I wouldn't consider it to be a GOAT match at all. And I definitely think its more than just 2 spots, since, you know, they actually do stuff AFTER the two spots...


----------



## Chismo

Kobashi vs. Takayama (NOAH 9/24/2004) is a five star match. Just sayin'.


----------



## D'Angelo

This thread is fucking awesome (Y) 

Only complaint is that it's a little 90s AJPW heavy, 93 was a good year for the main event scene but the undercard was always a little weak. Late 80s-late 90s was apparently consistently good too.




McQueen said:


> Am I the only one who thinks the Mankind/Taker HiaC isn't anything special? Once you've seen the two big spots from the match and strip it down all you have is about 5 minutes of two guys punching each other.


I hate it when people say this, the match isn't a GOAT or anything close to that but it goes way beyong 2 crazy spots.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I think its 90s AJPW heavy because a few people managed to check out some of the matches which were heavily pimped and it made sense to continue the discussion and help them in the right direction with regards to some of the best matches to hook them on the style.

If people want some extra discussion, you can't really go wrong with any of the following for Lucha:

Atlantis vs Blue Panther 1991 & 1997
El Dandy vs ***** Casas 1992
***** Casas vs El Dandy vs El Hijo Del Santo 1996
El Hijo Del Santo vs ***** Casas 1987 & 1997
El Dandy vs Javier Llanes 1994
El Satanico vs Gran Cochisse 1984
MS-1 vs Sangre Chicana 1983
Atlantis vs Villano III 2000 (Mask vs Hair)
Damiencito El Guerrero vs Cicloncito Ramirez 1997
Damiencito El Guerrerro Perrocito Fieritov vs Cicloncito Ramerez Bracito De Oro Mascarita 1997
El Hijo Del Santo vs Espanto Jr 1986 (I'm still searching for a link for these but they're raved about)

All of the above would be pushing *****, Dandy vs Llanes is probably in star ratings 'the weakest' but its ridiculously awesome and probably a top 3 match for me out of those just for the matwork and grappling.


----------



## McQueen

Is there a Ditch equivelent Lucha website?


----------



## Bubz

Gotta agree with Stinger, this thread is awesome. It kinda introduced me and others to AJPW and it's epicness, which is why it is pretty heavy on the AJPW talk I think. It doesn't help that the matches are genuinely the best I have ever seen aswell lol. Kinda hard not to talk about these matches after watching them.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Not that I'm aware of sadly, I can provide a link to a few of those matches (credit to Yeah1993), a couple are on youtube (Satanico vs Gran Cochisse & MS-1 vs Sangre Chicana) and the rest get uploaded on various megavideo links. I know Yeah1993 has the Atlantis vs Villano III match as I saw it months back off of a link of his.

I'm told DVDVR may soon be doing a Lucha 80's set or releasing comps of some of their more famed workers. El Hijo has a 36 disc comp already.


----------



## Tanner1495

Just watched a 5 star match. Undertaker vs The Rock vs Kurt Angle at Vengeance 2002. The second best triple threat match I have ever seen besides HBK/HHH/Benoit. Is there any World of Sport matches you guys would recommend, and do you guys rate WoS matches like every other professional wrestling matches?


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Johnny Saint vs Steve Grey 1980 is an excellent match. The story of Grey being outwitted by his opponent and his struggle to try and claim the advantage is class, and the wrestling in between is the usual slick and creative grappling you expect from World of Sport.

Finlay vs Davey Boy 1982 is on DailyMotion and again is a hell of a match, Davey is only like 18 or so at this stage.

You also need to see more Jim Breaks, matter or fact everyone does. I swear a lot of Regal's attitude in being disrespectful and snobbish was inspired by Breaks.


----------



## Tanner1495

Segunda Caida said:


> Johnny Saint vs Steve Grey 1980 is an excellent match. The story of Grey being outwitted by his opponent and his struggle to try and claim the advantage is class, and the wrestling in between is the usual slick and creative grappling you expect from World of Sport.
> 
> Finlay vs Davey Boy 1982 is on DailyMotion and again is a hell of a match, Davey is only like 18 or so at this stage.
> 
> You also need to see more Jim Breaks, matter or fact everyone does. I swear a lot of Regal's attitude in being disrespectful and snobbish was inspired by Breaks.



Thanks, I will defiantly checkout the Finlay/Davey as I'm a huge fan of both. Do you rate WoS matches? This will actually be the first WoS match I have eer seen


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Its very good for nice grappling and creative chain wrestling. It does lack the brawling/emotion and long term selling/control segments I enjoy in other matches but the style itself is very watchable and fun. They work nice stories into a heel being outwrestled by a face or a young babyface being treated with contempt by an older heel.

Saint and Breaks are two of the best from what I've seen, Regal is in a few WOS matches and I think a few of them are on Youtube.


----------



## McQueen

Jimmy Breaks is a guy i'd love to see more of. Such a little fucking bitch (in a good way) and his Breaks Wristlock is fucking sick. I wish more people adapted the WoS style but not sure i'd go over really well in a major company due to many fans lacking patience and appreciation for such styles.

Young David vs Finlay LOL.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

He's an amazing dickhead, his handshake turned into a slap spot is always great. You can tell the crowd loved interacting with him during matches. I think Finlay in particular has done well to try and incorporate elements of the British style whilst still maintaining some American style to keep the crowd interested. Regal occasionally busting out WOS escapes is always a delight.

IIRC 'Young David' was hilarious in that match appearance wise. Looked like he'd just been picked out of the showers to wrestle, immediately thought of Billy Elliot when I saw him.


----------



## McQueen

Yeah he was a skinny little bastard back then.


----------



## Goku

McQueen said:


> Hohen whatever the fuck his lame ass username is and I fued over that match. He thinks its a *** 1/2 star match.





McQueen said:


> He complains it has no backstory. Its a match over a title and both teams actually make it seem like the title is important because they go all out against each other. Whatever.


I gave it ****3/4* iirc. And I had a lot of complaints. It's been years tho, I hardly remember now. Reminded me of the No Mercy 2002 tag, which I think is around the same level.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Just watched the Flair/Dragon match from Chi Town Rumble and was pretty disappointed and don't get the hype for that and won't bother rating it. Stuck with it and watched the 2/3 Clash match and that was excellent. Haven't seen the WWar match yet but seeing that was MOTY in PWI in 89 I'm stoked to see it.

edit: just watched the WWar match and it was definitely the best of the three. Very intense from beginning to end and the after match festivities were great. Worthy of *****


----------



## Violent By Design

Yeah, quite a few people do not rank Chi-Town Rumble up with the Clash of Champs and Wrestlewar matches. Personally, when I think of Flair vs Steamboat trilogy, I usually replace the Chi-town Rumble with this house show that coincidentally took place in Chi-town.


----------



## NorthernLights

I gotta say, even though I went the full boat for Flair vs. Steamboat @ Chi-Town Rumble, I felt the same way. I don't want to say the match was lacking or that I was disappointed, but it did feel as if something were missing.

Re: UT vs. Mankind -- This is why I stress that my ratings are completely subjective. I feel a match should be rated based on the viewer's enjoyment. If you strip away all the hoopla from this match and just watch it as a grappling exhibition, it's not going to carry the same luster. If you allow yourself to watch the match as a wrestling fan, then it becomes easy to see why the match surfaces on so many 'favorite' lists. Personally I don't rate the match 5 stars and I don't include it in my favorites, but it was a very entertaining spectacle and helped influence my interest level in wrestling.


----------



## DFUSCMAN

What i love about the 6/9/95 tag is how even the small spots they play off. The stretch plum/sleeper spot was used in the 93 tag by kawada and taue, then used in the 95 tag by misawa and kobashi.

Plus kawada is fucking vicious in the 95 match because he's hellbent on destroying misawa


----------



## New Blood

McQueen said:


> Is there a Ditch equivelent Lucha website?


If you're a member of DVDVR and/or Wrestling KO, they have a huge collection of lucha. There were a couple sendspace accounts that had huge amounts of lucha but I don't know if they're still active. I'd have to check.


----------



## New Blood

Everyone needs to see *Atlantis vs. Blue Panther [8/11/91]* ASAP. People who say lucha is nothing but flippy shit and not worth anything in wrestling will be put to shame by this match.


----------



## buffalochipster

Does length of match make add to the quality, i.e. a half hour match vs a hour long match? And I have tried to watch some of the Japanese matches on here, maybe because I know very little Japanese, maybe my ADD, but I cant get into these matches. I would love to be able to appreciate them, as some of you do, any tips? Thanks


----------



## topper1

buffalochipster said:


> Does length of match make add to the quality, i.e. a half hour match vs a hour long match? And I have tried to watch some of the Japanese matches on here, maybe because I know very little Japanese, maybe my ADD, but I cant get into these matches. I would love to be able to appreciate them, as some of you do, any tips? Thanks


It's the ADD and likely being use to the more fast paced wrestling we see today.


----------



## buffalochipster

topper1 said:


> It's the ADD and likely being use to the more fast paced wrestling we see today.


Lol ok, Im on school break right now, so Im gonna watch some more puro wrestling as see what happens. I have a few friends who are wrestling fans, so I'll see what they think as well.


----------



## topper1

buffalochipster said:


> Lol ok, Im on school break right now, so Im gonna watch some more puro wrestling as see what happens. I have a few friends who are wrestling fans, so I'll see what they think as well.


If the 90's stuff is to hard I would recommend watching some early NOAH stuff like Kobashi vs Misawa from 2003 and getting a feel for the guy's then maybe going back and watching the older stuff once you care about the workers. Kobashi vs Hansen from July 93 and Kobashi vs Dr. Death might also be a little more easy for you to watch as well over some of the more longer epic matches. Also Jr stuff from 90's NJPW might be another good place to look.


----------



## Yeah1993

antoniomare007 said:


> Also, after all this All Japan talk. We need an Akira Fukuzawa appreciation thread. I was watching Misawa vs Terry Gordy 91' for the nth time and still laugh my ass off when Misawa puts Gordy on a facelock and we get this from Fukuzawa:
> 
> "ITAA IIITAAAAA FAAACEE LOOOOOOCK!!!
> FAAAAAAAAAAAAACEEEELOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


Totally agree with that. Watched the same Misawa/Gordy last week and I had to rewind that commentary part like 6 times. 



Segunda Caida said:


> El Hijo Del Santo vs Espanto Jr 1986 (I'm still searching for a link for these but they're raved about)


I have searched high and dry for this so I can give a link of it out to people because it really may be one of the absolute best matches in pro wrestling ever. I don't think anybosy has ever uploaded it and if they have it's in some secret bizarro land. I may have to result to ripping it myself (which may end in disaster regardless).



Hohenheim of Light said:


> Reminded me of the No Mercy 2002 tag, which I think is around the same level.


Opinions are opinions. Fuck you TO HELL, HOHENHEIM. TO HELL.



Violent By Design said:


> I usually replace the Chi-town Rumble with this house show that coincidentally took place in Chi-town.


Which one's that? They had one in Philly and another in Landover both on March 18th (or 17th; I hear different things) but I've never heard of this one unless it's from outside 1989.


----------



## Violent By Design

Good to see some Lucha in here . 



Yeah1993 said:


> Totally agree with that. Watched the same Misawa/Gordy last week and I had to rewind that commentary part like 6 times.
> 
> 
> 
> I have searched high and dry for this so I can give a link of it out to people because it really may be one of the absolute best matches in pro wrestling ever. I don't think anybosy has ever uploaded it and if they have it's in some secret bizarro land. I may have to result to ripping it myself (which may end in disaster regardless).
> 
> 
> 
> Opinions are opinions. Fuck you TO HELL, HOHENHEIM. TO HELL.
> 
> 
> 
> Which one's that? They had one in Philly and another in Landover both on March 18th (or 17th; I hear different things) but I've never heard of this one unless it's from outside 1989.


That's the right date, maybe it did not take place in Chicago. Not positive, but I'm pretty sure it did.


----------



## bigbuxxx

no list from me for now but a match i haven't seen here is MCMG vs Briscoes from Good Times, Great Memories. best tag match from roh imo.


----------



## Kawada = god

Old list, I need to update it:



Giant Baba vs. The Destroyer - JWA 3/5/69
The Destroyer vs. Mil Mascaras - AJPW 7/25/74
Giant Baba vs. Harley Race - AJPW 12/9/75
Antonio Inoki vs. Billy Robinson - NJPW 12/11/75
Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Terry Funk - AJPW 6/11/76
Giant Baba vs. Billy Robinson - AJPW 7/24/76
Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Harley Race - AJPW 6/11/77
Bob Backlund vs. Ken Patera - WWF Madison Square Garden 5/19/80
Bob Backlund vs. Stan Hansen - NJPW 9/30/80
Bob Backlund vs. Sgt. Slaughter - WWF Philadelphia Spectrum 3/21/81
Stan Hansen vs. Andre The Giant - NJPW 9/23/81
Bob Backlund vs. Buddy Rose - WWF Madison Square Garden 8/30/82
Jerry Lawler vs. Bill Dundee - CWA Memphis, TN 6/6/83
Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Kerry Von Erich - AJPW 5/22/84
Sgt. Slaughter vs. Iron Sheik - WWF Madison Square Garden 6/16/84
Inoki/Fujinami/Hoshino/Kimura/Ueda vs. Maeda/Takada/Fujiwara/Kido/Yamazaki - NJPW 3/26/86
Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Akira Maeda - NJPW 6/12/86
Stan Hansen/Terry Gordy vs. Genichiro Tenryu/Toshiaki Kawada - AJPW 12/16/88
Nobuhiko Takada vs. Bob Backlund - UWF 12/28/88
Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat - NWA Chi-Town Rumble 2/20/89
Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat - NWA Philadelphia, PA 3/18/89
Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat - NWA Landover, MD 3/18/89
Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat - NWA Clash of the Champions VI 4/2/89
Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Genichiro Tenryu - AJPW 6/5/89
Jushin Liger vs. Naoki Sano - NJPW 7/13/89
Jushin Liger vs. Naoki Sano - NJPW 8/10/89
Ric Flair vs. Terry Funk - NWA Clash of the Champions IX 11/15/89
Jushin Liger vs. Naoki Sano - NJPW 1/30/90
Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Mitsuharu Misawa - AJPW 6/8/90
Midnight Express vs. Southern Boys - WCW Great American Bash 7/7/90
Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Mitsuharu Misawa - AJPW 9/1/90
Tsuruta/Fuchi/Taue vs. Misawa/Kawada/Kobashi - AJPW 10/19/90
Tsuruta/Fuchi/Taue vs. Misawa/Kawada/Kobashi - AJPW 4/20/91
Masahiro Chono vs. Keiji Muto - NJPW 8/11/91
Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Toshiaki Kawada - AJPW 10/24/91
Wargames - WCW WrestleWar 5/17/92
Doug Furnas/Dan Kroffat vs. Kenta Kobashi/Tsuyoshi Kikuchi - AJPW 5/25/92
Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada - AJPW 10/21/92
Vader vs. Sting - WCW Superbrawl 2/21/93
Stan Hansen vs. Toshiaki Kawada - AJPW 2/28/93
Mitsuharu Misawa/Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada/Akira Taue - AJPW 6/1/93
Stan Hansen vs. Kenta Kobashi - AJPW 7/29/93
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi - AJPW 10/23/93
Mitsuharu Misawa/Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada/Akira Taue - AJPW 12/3/93
Nobuhiko Takada vs. Vader - UWFi 12/5/93
Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart - WWF Wrestlemania X 3/20/94
Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon - WWF Wrestlemania X 3/20/94
Chris Benoit vs. Great Sasuke - NJPW 4/16/94
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Steve Williams - AJPW 4/16/94
Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada - AJPW 6/3/94
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi - AJPW 4/13/95
Toshiaki Kawada/Akira Taue vs. Mitsuharu Misawa/Kenta Kobashi - AJPW 6/9/95
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa - AJPW 7/24/95
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Gary Albright - AJPW 10/25/95
Antonio Inoki vs. Vader - NJPW 1/4/96
Mitsuharu Misawa/Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada/Akira Taue - AJPW 12/6/96
Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi - AJPW 1/20/97
Volk Han vs. Kiyoshi Tamura - RINGS 1/22/97
Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart - WWF Wrestlemania XIII 3/23/97
Eddy Guerrero vs. Rey Misterio Jr. - WCW Halloween Havoc 10/26/97
Steve Austin vs. Dude Love - WWF Over The Edge 5/31/98
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi - AJPW 6/12/98
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kensuke Sasaki - NJPW 10/9/00
Toshiaki Kawada/Masanobu Fuchi vs. Yuji Nagata/Takashi Iizuka - NJPW 12/14/00
Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi - NOAH 3/1/03
Kenta Kobashi vs. Jun Akiyama - NOAH 7/10/04
Toshiaki Kawada vs. Satoshi Kojima - AJPW 2/16/05
Kenta Kobashi vs. Kensuke Sasaki - NOAH 7/18/05
Kenta Kobashi/Go Shiozaki vs. Kensuke Sasaki/Katsuhiko Nakajima - NOAH 11/5/05
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Hirooki Goto - NJPW 11/11/07
Kenta Kobashi/Yoshihiro Takayama vs. Mitsuharu Misawa/Jun Akiyama - NOAH 12/2/07


----------



## McQueen

New Blood said:


> If you're a member of DVDVR and/or Wrestling KO, they have a huge collection of lucha. There were a couple sendspace accounts that had huge amounts of lucha but I don't know if they're still active. I'd have to check.


I have a DVDVR account but I haven't been on it for years. I should see if I can remember the password.


----------



## Kawada = god

> El Hijo Del Santo vs Espanto Jr 1986 (I'm still searching for a link for these but they're raved about)
> 
> I have searched high and dry for this so I can give a link of it out to people because it really may be one of the absolute best matches in pro wrestling ever. I don't think anybody has ever uploaded it and if they have it's in some secret bizarro land. I may have to result to ripping it myself (which may end in disaster regardless).


I have this match, although in very poor video quality. I'll post it soon.


----------



## Bubz

I just rewatched Rey vs Eddie from Haloween Havoc and I wouldn't have that anywhere near my list. It was great but probably **** at best for me. It was perfectly executed and Eddie's workover on the back was great, but it was missing something. It seemed to end just when it was going to kick into higher gear.


----------



## Chismo

bubz123 said:


> I just rewatched Rey vs Eddie from Haloween Havoc and I wouldn't have that anywhere near my list. It was great but probably **** at best for me. It was perfectly executed and Eddie's workover on the back was great, but it was missing something. It seemed to end just when it was going to kick into higher gear.


I feel the same way.


----------



## Violent By Design

Kawada = god said:


> Old list, I need to update it:
> 
> 
> 
> Giant Baba vs. The Destroyer - JWA 3/5/69
> The Destroyer vs. Mil Mascaras - AJPW 7/25/74
> Giant Baba vs. Harley Race - AJPW 12/9/75
> Antonio Inoki vs. Billy Robinson - NJPW 12/11/75
> Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Terry Funk - AJPW 6/11/76
> Giant Baba vs. Billy Robinson - AJPW 7/24/76
> Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Harley Race - AJPW 6/11/77
> Bob Backlund vs. Ken Patera - WWF Madison Square Garden 5/19/80
> Bob Backlund vs. Stan Hansen - NJPW 9/30/80
> Bob Backlund vs. Sgt. Slaughter - WWF Philadelphia Spectrum 3/21/81
> Stan Hansen vs. Andre The Giant - NJPW 9/23/81
> Bob Backlund vs. Buddy Rose - WWF Madison Square Garden 8/30/82
> Jerry Lawler vs. Bill Dundee - CWA Memphis, TN 6/6/83
> Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Kerry Von Erich - AJPW 5/22/84
> Sgt. Slaughter vs. Iron Sheik - WWF Madison Square Garden 6/16/84
> Inoki/Fujinami/Hoshino/Kimura/Ueda vs. Maeda/Takada/Fujiwara/Kido/Yamazaki - NJPW 3/26/86
> Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Akira Maeda - NJPW 6/12/86
> Stan Hansen/Terry Gordy vs. Genichiro Tenryu/Toshiaki Kawada - AJPW 12/16/88
> Nobuhiko Takada vs. Bob Backlund - UWF 12/28/88
> Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat - NWA Chi-Town Rumble 2/20/89
> Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat - NWA Philadelphia, PA 3/18/89
> Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat - NWA Landover, MD 3/18/89
> Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat - NWA Clash of the Champions VI 4/2/89
> Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Genichiro Tenryu - AJPW 6/5/89
> Jushin Liger vs. Naoki Sano - NJPW 7/13/89
> Jushin Liger vs. Naoki Sano - NJPW 8/10/89
> Ric Flair vs. Terry Funk - NWA Clash of the Champions IX 11/15/89
> Jushin Liger vs. Naoki Sano - NJPW 1/30/90
> Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Mitsuharu Misawa - AJPW 6/8/90
> Midnight Express vs. Southern Boys - WCW Great American Bash 7/7/90
> Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Mitsuharu Misawa - AJPW 9/1/90
> Tsuruta/Fuchi/Taue vs. Misawa/Kawada/Kobashi - AJPW 10/19/90
> Tsuruta/Fuchi/Taue vs. Misawa/Kawada/Kobashi - AJPW 4/20/91
> Masahiro Chono vs. Keiji Muto - NJPW 8/11/91
> Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Toshiaki Kawada - AJPW 10/24/91
> Wargames - WCW WrestleWar 5/17/92
> Doug Furnas/Dan Kroffat vs. Kenta Kobashi/Tsuyoshi Kikuchi - AJPW 5/25/92
> Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada - AJPW 10/21/92
> Vader vs. Sting - WCW Superbrawl 2/21/93
> Stan Hansen vs. Toshiaki Kawada - AJPW 2/28/93
> Mitsuharu Misawa/Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada/Akira Taue - AJPW 6/1/93
> Stan Hansen vs. Kenta Kobashi - AJPW 7/29/93
> Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi - AJPW 10/23/93
> Mitsuharu Misawa/Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada/Akira Taue - AJPW 12/3/93
> Nobuhiko Takada vs. Vader - UWFi 12/5/93
> Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart - WWF Wrestlemania X 3/20/94
> Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon - WWF Wrestlemania X 3/20/94
> Chris Benoit vs. Great Sasuke - NJPW 4/16/94
> Toshiaki Kawada vs. Steve Williams - AJPW 4/16/94
> Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada - AJPW 6/3/94
> Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi - AJPW 4/13/95
> Toshiaki Kawada/Akira Taue vs. Mitsuharu Misawa/Kenta Kobashi - AJPW 6/9/95
> Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa - AJPW 7/24/95
> Toshiaki Kawada vs. Gary Albright - AJPW 10/25/95
> Antonio Inoki vs. Vader - NJPW 1/4/96
> Mitsuharu Misawa/Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada/Akira Taue - AJPW 12/6/96
> Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi - AJPW 1/20/97
> Volk Han vs. Kiyoshi Tamura - RINGS 1/22/97
> Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart - WWF Wrestlemania XIII 3/23/97
> Eddy Guerrero vs. Rey Misterio Jr. - WCW Halloween Havoc 10/26/97
> Steve Austin vs. Dude Love - WWF Over The Edge 5/31/98
> Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi - AJPW 6/12/98
> Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kensuke Sasaki - NJPW 10/9/00
> Toshiaki Kawada/Masanobu Fuchi vs. Yuji Nagata/Takashi Iizuka - NJPW 12/14/00
> Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi - NOAH 3/1/03
> Kenta Kobashi vs. Jun Akiyama - NOAH 7/10/04
> Toshiaki Kawada vs. Satoshi Kojima - AJPW 2/16/05
> Kenta Kobashi vs. Kensuke Sasaki - NOAH 7/18/05
> Kenta Kobashi/Go Shiozaki vs. Kensuke Sasaki/Katsuhiko Nakajima - NOAH 11/5/05
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Hirooki Goto - NJPW 11/11/07
> Kenta Kobashi/Yoshihiro Takayama vs. Mitsuharu Misawa/Jun Akiyama - NOAH 12/2/07


Hey, do you think you can upload Takada vs Backlund and Robinson vs Inoki?


----------



## WOOLCOCK

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XYPGUUUZ 

There's Backlund vs Takada UWF, can't help with Inoki vs Robinson though. 

Also Kawada = god if you could upload El Hijo vs Espanto Jr in the near future that would be amazing.


----------



## New Blood

Segunda Caida said:


> http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XYPGUUUZ
> 
> There's Backlund vs Takada UWF, can't help with Inoki vs Robinson though.
> 
> Also Kawada = god if you could upload El Hijo vs Espanto Jr in the near future that would be amazing.


He did in the Indy section.


----------



## Mr.King

Here's a short list of mine. I have many more

CM Punk vs Joe
HHH/HBK/Benoit
CM Punk vs. Cena
WM 25 and 26 Michaels vs.Taker
Mr. Perfect vs. Bret Hard Summerslam 91 I think
AJ Styles/Joe/Daniels


----------



## D'Angelo

McQueen said:


> Is there a Ditch equivelent Lucha website?


No, but I wish there was.

DVDVR do have a few matches, they used to have a lot but links have died etc. Everything should be revived though when it comes to the business end of the lucha 80s sets and Panther & Satanico sets.


----------



## Cactus

For those wanting to check out El Hijo Del Santo vs Espanto Jr look no further.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3ho7kQsJHQ


----------



## Chismo

My *NOAH* list:

Mitsuharu Misawa vs Yoshihiro Takayama (9/23/2002)
Mitsuharu Misawa vs Kenta Kobashi (3/1/2003)
Kenta Kobashi vs Jun Akiyama (7/10/2004) *Teh Match Of The Decade*
Kenta Kobashi vs Yoshihiro Takayama (4/25/2004)
KENTAfuji vs Kanemaru & Sugiura (6/5/2005)
Kenta Kobashi vs Kensuke Sasaki (7/18/2005)
GoBashi vs Kensuke Office (11/5/2005)

So yeah, NOAH 2000-2006 was pure gold.


----------



## NorthernLights

Cactus Clothesline said:


> For those wanting to check out El Hijo Del Santo vs Espanto Jr look no further.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3ho7kQsJHQ


Thank you for uploading this.


----------



## Bubz

JoeRulz said:


> My *NOAH* list:
> 
> Mitsuharu Misawa vs Yoshihiro Takayama (9/23/2002)
> Mitsuharu Misawa vs Kenta Kobashi (3/1/2003)
> Kenta Kobashi vs Jun Akiyama (7/10/2004) *Teh Match Of The Decade*
> Kenta Kobashi vs Yoshihiro Takayama (9/24/2004)
> KENTAfuji vs Kanemaru & Sugiura (6/5/2005)
> Kenta Kobashi vs Kensuke Sasaki (7/18/2005)
> GoBashi vs Kensuke Office (11/5/2005)
> 
> So yeah, NOAH 2000-2006 was pure gold.


I'll have to check some of them out tonight I think. Only seen Kobashi/Misawa and Kobashi/Sasaki.


----------



## Chismo

bubz123 said:


> I'll have to check some of them out tonight I think. Only seen Kobashi/Misawa and Kobashi/Sasaki.


I still need to see some classics from the early years of NOAH. Particularly from 2002 and 2005. Shit, I still haven't watched Kobashi/Nagata...


----------



## antoniomare007

have you seen KENTA vs SUWA? one the best singles Jr. matches NOAH has ever had.


----------



## Chismo

Yes, great match and fantastic work from SUWA. I've only seen three SUWA matches.


----------



## Bubz

antoniomare007 said:


> have you seen KENTA vs SUWA? one the best singles Jr. matches NOAH has ever had.


Another one I need to watch, thank god it's summer!


----------



## McQueen

Kobashi vs Takayama was the shit. Actually just Takayama is the shit.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I preferred their 2000 match to the 2004 one. Kobashi gets his arm obliterated again but sells it quite a bit better throughout including the finishing stretch and his final flurry came off much better to me when I rewatched them not long ago.

The moonsault in the 2004 match still makes me cringe though.

And agreed on the Takayama love, #1 guy in Puro at the minute that I can watch endlessly and never tire/find fault with.


----------



## McQueen

Its a shame Tak had that stroke because he should be dominating the world right now as a single competitor.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Some of the bumps he's taken post stroke have been just horrific as well, guy is about as believable as they come as a monster who the top babyfaces have no answer for.

Still need to track down his AJPW title match in 2009 was SUWAMA. Caught the highlights on Youtube and it looked Vintage Takayama. 

His 2002 run was also insanely good


----------



## McQueen

I'm not a huge fan of Chono (hit or miss IMO) but his G-1 Finals bout against Big Tak in '02 was really great. Not to mension the vastly overlooked early Noah bouts between Misawa & Tak.


----------



## Chismo

I agree with you, McQueen and Caida. Takayama-san is probably the most enjoyable puro wrestler in last 11 years. I just LOVE that son of a bitch, and his non-puro attitude, his close fist punches, his devastating knees, his fucked up face, his fucked up voice. He doesn't care about "respect", he just wants to beat the hell out of the people, especially those young "Kawada wannabes" punks. Takayama is like Japanese version of Andre The Giant. 
And yes, those post-stroke bumps he took are incredible, I guess he just doesn't care, lol. Long live Everest!



> Not to mension the vastly overlooked early Noah bouts between Misawa & Tak.


I agree. Incredible matches, and the 2002 one is a five star match in my book. I also loved the Takayama/KENSKEY slugfests.


----------



## Yeah1993

I still have never seen the 2000 Kobashi/Takayama. The 04 one is one of the 8-10 or so best matches of the decade for me. The last five minutes are just unbelievable.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Yeah1993 said:


> I still have never seen the 2000 Kobashi/Takayama. The 04 one is one of the 8-10 or so best matches of the decade for me. The last five minutes are just unbelievable.


http://www.megaupload.com/?d=I8DTL5LO

There you go. Very similar to the 2004 match but I just preferred Kobashi's selling in this one and Takayama basically having the match that signified his talent also puts it up a few notches.



JoeRulz said:


> I agree with you, McQueen and Caida. Takayama-san is probably the most enjoyable puro wrestler in last 11 years. I just LOVE that son of a bitch, and his non-puro attitude, his close fist punches, his devastating knees, his fucked up face, his fucked up voice. He doesn't care about "respect", he just wants to beat the hell out of the people, especially those young "Kawada wannabes" punks. Takayama is like Japanese version of Andre The Giant.
> And yes, those post-stroke bumps he took are incredible, I guess he just doesn't care, lol. Long live Everest!
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. Incredible matches, and the 2002 one is a five star match in my book. I also loved the Takayama/KENSKEY slugfests.


(Y). Guy is just brilliant with the striking and unlike a lot of guys who try to throw big bombs he knows how to make it into a story and put over a young guy. Not to mention he's probably a top 3 control segment worker around the world, just amazing.

I loved their 2001 match and haven't seen the 2002 one in forever, both were sensational though.


----------



## Cactus

Holy fuck, Takayama had a stroke? 

Christ, here I though Kobashi was all badass for coming back after cancer.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Cactus Clothesline said:


> Holy fuck, Takayama had a stroke?
> 
> Christ, here I though Kobashi was all badass for coming back after cancer.


Not long after a match with Kensuke Sasaki in the 2004 G1 Climax in NJPW. He did commentary in NOAH during his time off and IIRC his return match had to be altered for when Kobashi had to have surgery on his tumour


----------



## Fighter Daron

When was that stroke?


----------



## WOOLCOCK

^ see my post above yours. It occurred some time in 2004 after his G1 Climax match in New Japan vs Sasaki, think that match was in the summer of 2004 so around September/October time I suppose.


----------



## Bubz

Takayama is the biggest bad ass in all of wrestling.


----------



## Fighter Daron

Segunda Caida said:


> ^ see my post above yours. It occurred some time in 2004 after his G1 Climax match in New Japan vs Sasaki, think that match was in the summer of 2004 so around September/October time I suppose.


Oh, I didn't see it xD

But, what was the cause?, a strike or something?


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Where I read the report from it just said he had a stroke not long after the match, and the match featured their usual display of intense stiff wrestling.

FWIW Nagata also suffered a form of a stroke in the same tournament, IIRC he wrestled 2 matches after discovering some soreness in the left side of his body without alerting NJPW and had to postpone a match vs Goto (think it was the final or at the very least a highly anticipated match) when he woke up on the day of the match and couldn't move any of the left side of his body. NJPW were alerted and a doctor confirmed he'd suffered a stroke at the age of 39.

Nagata's former tag partner also died as a result of numerous brain damage culminating in a stiff elbow that broke his skull.


----------



## Fighter Daron

Fuck, dead by an elbow?


----------



## tboneangle

I think i obsess over the whole 5 star vs 4 and 3/4 matches thing especially cuz i have ocd. i have decided to alter my grading scheme for the moment.

A B C D F

For example a B match would be 3 to 1 1/2 stars and a B+ would be like 3 1/2 to 4ish.

Here is a list of my A+ Matches (4 3/4 to 5 stars)

-Ric Flair(c) vs Sting,NWA Title,NWA Clash Of The Champions

-Ric Flair(c) vs Ricky Steamboat,NWA Title,NWA Chi Town Rumble

-Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat(c),NWA Title,2/3 Falls,NWA/WCW Clash Of The Champions VI

-Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat(c), NWA World Title ,Judges At Ringside,NWA/WCW WrestleWar 1989 

-Bret Hart vs Mr.Perfect(c),WWF IC Title,WWF SummerSlam 1991

-Sting's Squadron vs Dangerous Alliance,War Games,WCW WrestleWar 1992

-Bret Hart(c) vs Davey Boy Smith, WWF Intercontinental Title, WWF Summerslam 1992

-Bret Hart vs Mr.Perfect,KOR Semifinal,WWF King Of The Ring 1993

-Bret Hart vs Owen Hart, WWF WrestleMania X 

-Razor Ramon(c) vs Shawn Michaels,WWF IC Title,Ladder Match,WWF WrestleMania X 

-Chris Benoit vs Great Sasuke,Super J Cup Finals,NJPW Super J Cup 1994

-Razor Ramon vs Shawn Michaels(c),WWF IC Title,Ladder,WWF Summerslam 1995

-Bret Hart(c) vs Davey Boy Smith,WWF Title,WWF In Your House December 1995

-Bret Hart(c) vs Shawn Michaels,WWF Title,60 Minute Iron Man Match,WWF Wrestlemania 12 

-Megumi Kudo vs Combat Toyoda,Deathmatch,FMW 5-5-1996 

-Rey Mysterio vs Psychosis,WCW Bash At The Beach 1996

-Shawn Michaels(c) vs Mankind,WWF Title,WWF In Your House: Mind Games

-Owen Hart vs Davey Boy Smith,WWF European Title Finals,WWF Raw 3-1-1997

-Bret Hart vs Steve Austin,Submission Match,WWF Wrestlemania 13

-Shawn Michaels(c) vs The Undertaker,WWF Title,Hell In A Cell,WWF Badd Blood 1997 

-Rey Mysterio vs Eddie Guerrero(c),WCW CW Title vs Mask,WCW Halloween Havoc 1997 

-Steve Austin(c) vs Dude Love,WWF Title,WWF Over The Edge 1998

-Rob Van Dam(c) vs Jerry Lynn,ECW TV Title,ECW Hardcore Heaven 1999 

-Bret Hart vs Chris Benoit,WCW Nitro 10-4-1999

-Triple H(c) vs Cactus Jack,WWF Title,Street Fight,WWF Royal Rumble 2000 

-Triple H(c) vs Cactus Jack,WWF Title,Hell In A Cell,WWF 

-Edge and Christain(c) vs The Hardy Boyz vs The Dudley Boyz,WWF Tag Titles,WWF SummerSlam 2000

-Kurt Angle(c) vs The Rock vs The Undertaker vs Steve Austin vs Triple H vs Rikishi,WWF Title,Hell In A Cell,WWF Armageddon 2000

-Chris Benoit(c) vs Chris Jericho,WWF IC Title,Ladder,WWF Royal Rumble 2001

-Triple H vs Steve Austin,2/3 Falls,WWF No Way Out 2001 

-Edge And Christain vs The Hardy Boyz vs The Dudley Boyz(c),WWF Tag Titles,TLC,WWF WrestleMania X-Seven 

-The Rock(c) vs Steve Austin,WWF Title,NO DQ,WWF WrestleMania X-Seven 

-Kurt Angle vs Shane Mcmahon,Street Fight,WWF King Of The Ring 2001 

-Kurt Angle vs Steve Austin(c),WWF Title,WWF Summerslam 2001

-Kurt Angle vs Steve Austin(c),WWF Title,WWF Unforgiven 2001

-Rob Van Dam vs Eddie Guerrero(c),WWE IC Title,Ladder,WWE RAW 5-27-2002

-AJ Styles vs Jerry Lynn vs Low Ki vs Psicosis,(first)TNA X Title,Double Elimination,NWA-TNA Weekly PPV #2

-Kurt Angle vs The Undertaker(c) vs The Rock,WWE Undisputed Title,WWE Vengeance 2002

-Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit,WWE Unforgiven 2002

-Shawn Michaels vs Triple H,Street Fight,WWE Summerslam 2002

-Eddie Guerrero vs Edge,NO DQ,WWE Smackdown 9-26-2002

-Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit vs Edge and Rey Mysterio,WWE Tag Titles(First),WWE No Mercy 2002 

-Brock Lesnar(c) vs The Undertaker,WWE Title,Hell In A Cell,WWE No Mercy 2002 

-Kurt Angle(c) vs Chris Benoit,WWE Title,WWE Royal Rumble 2003 

-Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho,WWE WrestleMania XIX

-The Rock vs Steve Austin,WWE WrestleMania XIX

-Kurt Angle(c) vs Brock Lesnar,WWE Title,Level Playing Field,WWE WrestleMania XIX 

-Kurt Angle(c) vs Brock Lesnar,WWE Title,WWE Summerslam 2003 

-Kurt Angle(c) vs Brock Lesnar,WWE Title,60 Minute Iron Man Match,WWE Smackdown 9-18-2003 

-Kurt Angle vs John Cena,WWE No Mercy 2003

-AJ Styles vs Bryan Danielson,#1 Contenders Trophy,ROH Main Event Spectacles

-Brock Lesnar(c) vs Chris Benoit,WWE Title,WWE Smackdown 12-4-2003

-Brock Lesnar(c) vs Eddie Guerrero,WWE Title,WWE No Way Out 2004

-Kurt Angle vs Eddie Guerrero(c),WWE Title,WWE WrestleMania XX 

-Triple H(c) vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels,WWE WHC,WWE WrestleMania XX 

-Randy Orton(c) vs Cactus Jack,WWE IC Title,Hardcore Match,WWE Backlash 2004 

-AMW vs XXX,Cage,Losers Must Disband,TNA Turning Point 2004

-AJ Styles vs Chris Sabin vs Petey Williams(c),TNA X Title,Ultimate X,TNA Final Resolution 2005 

-Kurt Angle vs Rey Mysterio,WWE Smackdown 2-10-2005

-AJ Styles(c) vs Christopher Daniels,TNA X Title,30 Minute Iron Man Match,TNA Against All Odds 2005 

-Edge vs Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit vs Kane vs Shelton Benjamin vs Christain,Money In The Bank Ladder,WWE WrestleMania 21

-Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels,WWE WrestleMania 21 

-AJ Styles vs Abyss,TNA Lockdown 2005

-Shawn Michaels vs Shelton Benjamin,WWE Raw 5-2-2005

-John Cena(c) vs JBL,WWE Title,I Quit,WWE Judgment Day 2005 

-Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels,WWE Vengeance 2005

-AJ Styles vs Matt Hardy,IWC 7-29-2005 

-AJ Styles vs Samoa Joe vs Christopher Daniels(c),TNA X Title,TNA Unbreakable 2005 

-Edge vs Matt Hardy,Cage,WWE Unforgiven 2005

-Samoa Joe vs Kenta Kobashi,ROH Joe vs Kobashi

-Rhino vs Abyss vs Jeff Hardy vs Sabu,Monsters Ball,TNA Bound For Glory

-AJ Styles(c) vs Samoa Joe,TNA X Title,TNA Turning Point 2005

-Kurt Angle(c) vs The Undertaker,WWE WHC,WWE No Way Out 2006 

-Blood Generation vs Do Fixer,ROH Supercard Of Honor 3-31-2006 

-Mick Foley vs Edge,Hardcore Match,WWE WrestleMania 22

-Kurt Angle vs Samoa Joe,TNA Genesis 2006

-Kurt Angle vs Samoa Joe,TNA Turning Point 2006

-John Cena vs Shawn Michaels,WWE Raw 4-23-2007

-Chris Harris vs James Storm,Texas Death Match,TNA Sacrifice 2007

-Kurt Angle vs AJ Styles vs Samoa Joe vs Christain Cage vs ???,TNA World Title(First),KOM,TNA Slammiversary 2007 

-Kurt Angle(c) vs Yuji Nagata,IGF Title,Tokyo Dome Show 1-4-2008

-Kurt Angle(c) vs Samoa Joe,TNA Title vs Career,Cage,TNA Lockdown 2008

-Kurt Angle vs AJ Styles,Last Man Standing,TNA Hard Justice 2008

-The Undertaker vs Edge,Hell In A Cell,WWE Summerslam 2008

-Chris Jericho(c) vs Shawn Michaels,WWE WHC,Ladder,WWE No Mercy 2008

-Kurt Angle vs Abyss,Falls Count Anywhere,TNA Turning Point 2008

-Kurt Angle vs Jeff Jarrett,NO DQ,TNA Genesis 2009

-Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels,WWE WrestleMania 25

-Rey Mysterio(c) vs John Morrison,WWE IC Title,WWE Smackdown 9-4-2009

-Amazing Red(c) vs Daniels vs Suicide vs Homicide vs Chris Sabin vs Alex Shelly,TNA X Title,Ultimate X,TNA Bound For Glory 2009

-Kurt Angle vs Matt Morgan,TNA Bound For Glory 2009

-AJ Styles(c) vs Samoa Joe vs Christopher Daniels,TNA Title,TNA Turning Point 2009

-Kurt Angle vs Desmond Wolfe,3 Degrees Of Pain,TNA Final Resolution 2009

-Kurt Angle vs AJ Styles(c),TNA Title,TNA Impact 1-4-2010 

-Kurt Angle vs Mr Anderson,Cage,Escape Only,TNA Lockdown 2010 

-MCMG(c) vs Beer Money,2/3 Falls,TNA Tag Titles,TNA Whole F'N Show 

-Kurt Angle vs Jeff Hardy,TNA No Surrender 2010

-AJ Styles vs Bully Ray,Last Man Standing,TNA Slammiversary IX 2011

-Eddie Edwards(c) vs Davey Richards,ROH Title,ROH Best In The World 2011

-John Cena(c)vs CM Punk,WWE Title-WWE Money In The Bank 2011

Thats a 100 matches i feel are 4 3/4 stars or better. I spent like 5 hours yesterday comming up with this list.


----------



## flag sabbath

Man, it's a good job you're not into puro or lucha - your 'shortlist' would crash the forum.


----------



## Tanner1495

tboneangle if you like US wrestling, you would like some puro and lucha. One match I think you will like is Stan Hansen vs Andre the Giant NJPW '81, amazing match.


----------



## D'Angelo

flag sabbath said:


> Man, it's a good job you're not into puro or lucha - your 'shortlist' would crash the forum.


:lmao


Takayama is a bad ass who just wrecks all in his path.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Fighter Daron said:


> Fuck, dead by an elbow?





> Then came Sunday, the big match and Nagata awoke eager to fight Goto and ensure everything went smoothly and as planned such is his love for NJPW and his constant work for them as a true company man…
> 
> Problem was the headaches were getting worse and his left side had become pretty much immoveable and the company had to be told. Yuji did that and the match was cancelled and Nagata was sent to the hospital for tests and scans on his cranial region. First indications that have been gathered from these is that Yuji has had a stroke…. at the grand old age of 39.
> 
> Lets put that into perspective… a fit and healthy man who is said to be drug and alcohol free has suffered an injury to the brain usually seen in people who are twice his age and lead the opposite type of lifestyle.
> 
> So having eliminated the probable and most likely root causes of the injury there is but one conclusion left to make – wrestling made Yuji this way. *I mean it killed Masakazu Fukuda*, a former team mate of Nagata’s during the days of G-EGGS. It gave Takayama a stroke in 2004 and also has been seen as leading to the death of Hashimoto, all of them through similar injuries to the brain.
> 
> *Now a stroke is cerebrovascular accident, where the blood vessels supplying the brain become disrupted or damaged and leading to either a blood clot or haemorrhage which then in turn damages the brains functions, most commonly in the areas of speech and movement. Ergo a stroke or related aliment can be caused by being hit hard in the head and thus causing damage to the brain.
> 
> Now Fukuda’s death was sudden, he caught a stiff elbow smash from Shibata and went down straight away, his skull filling up with blood from a damaged blood cell which in turn caused fatal and irreversible brain damage.
> *


Apparently it was more a culmination of numerous brain damage as opposed to simply that one elbow.


----------



## Fighter Daron

Wow, that makes me think about the risks of being a pro wrestler.


----------



## Bubz

That's pretty awful stuff right there. Way to put a downer on the thread...Jeez! Lol.


----------



## Fighter Daron

Just watched Takayama Vs Kobashi at 2000 and it's a great match, but it's not even near to the five stars because of the crowd and the poor offence Kobashi could put into the match.


----------



## Bubz

Kobashi vs Akiyama 2004. One of the best matches I have ever seen. It's up there with most of the AJPW stuff I have seen easily and it is so much better than Kobashi/Misawa 2003. The suplex spot off the apron was disgusting! Kobashi was spitting out blood after it and the way Akiyama bounced off the floor looked really bad. I think soemone said before that this was the match of the decade, and I don't think I would disagree.

Kobashi/Takayama next.


----------



## Goku

bubz123 said:


> Kobashi vs Akiyama 2004. One of the best matches I have ever seen. It's up there with most of the AJPW stuff I have seen easily and it is so much better than Kobashi/Misawa 2003. The suplex spot off the apron was disgusting! Kobashi was spitting out blood after it and the way Akiyama bounced off the floor looked really bad. I think soemone said before that this was the match of the decade, and I don't think I would disagree.


Overrated.


----------



## Bubz

Well, to each their own. I loved the fuck out of it.

Kobashi/Takayama 2004. Another epic match right here. Kobashi is the fucking nuts.


----------



## Chismo

EDIT: nvm.


----------



## D'Angelo

I fucking love Misawa/Kobashi from 2003 and would never dream of putting Kobashi/Akiyama ahead of it. I can totally see why others would, and it is technically a better match. BUT, on a personal level Misawa/Kobashi from 2003 is just amazing.


----------



## Yeah1993

I really didn't love Kobashi/Akiyama. It was good, but I'd probably put at least 20 matches from 2004 alone ahead of it. Thought Kobashi/Takayama absolutely smoked it.


----------



## Chismo

EDIT: nvm.


----------



## Yeah1993

nah I've enjoyed (and loved) a lot of Akiyama matches, but I didn't like him here.


----------



## Daniel97

Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels - Unforgiven 08


----------



## McQueen

I like the '04 match between Kobashi and Akiyama and I think I once had it at 5* because it is pretty epic but at the same time there is way too much overkill in that match. Even by All Japan standards. I'd also put Kobashi/Tak over it like yeah1993, but I blatently mark the fuck out for Takayama.

I'd love to watch Takayama literally destroy Davey Richards.


----------



## Bubz

I really didn't think there was that much overkill in Kobashi/Akiyama, there may have been some but it was so awesome that I didn't notice. Misawa/Kobashi had more iirc, I haven't watched that in a few years though. Takayama/Kobashi was awesome though, Takayama has some fucking lethal kicks.

I would like to add that Takayama has the most bad ass theme music in all of japan.


----------



## Cactus

Both matches are epic, both Kobashi/Misawa blows Akiyama/Kobashi out the water. Kobashi/Misawa is Japan's version of Michaels/'Taker and then some. They whipped out all their arsenal and it was just epic.


----------



## Fighter Daron

Cactus Clothesline said:


> Both matches are epic, both Kobashi/Misawa blows Akiyama/Kobashi out the water. Kobashi/Misawa is Japan's version of Michaels/'Taker and then some. They whipped out all their arsenal and it was just epic.


Well, they had over 10 matches in their career, I've seen the firsts six, until the one in 97, every match is great, but I think I didn't watch the best yet.


----------



## McQueen

The Kobashi/Misawa match from January '97 is the best in my opinion and a lot of other peoples as well.


----------



## DFUSCMAN

Watched kobashi/takayama yesterday. 

Takayama is such a badass, and the finish made my jaw hurt. Also loved the way it showed the desperation in kobashi to nearly attempt the burning hammer.


----------



## Bubz

The 97 match is the best match between Misawa and Kobashi I have seen, amazing match. I wasn't a fan of their 98 match as much, serious overkill in that one, it should have ended 5 minutes before it did.


----------



## LegendofBaseball

*WWF/E

1. HBK Vs Bret Hart (WrestleMania XII)
2. Steamboat Vs Savage (WrestleMania III)
3. Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels (WrestleMania 25)
4. HHH Vs HBK (Badd Blood 2004)
5. HBK Vs Razor Ramon (WrestleMania X)

NWA/WCW

1. Flair Vs Steamboat (WrestleWar)
2. Flair Vs Sting (The Great American Bash)
3. Flair Vs Sting (Clash of the Champions)
4. Rey Mysterio Jr. Vs Ultimo Dragon (World War 3)
5. Steiner Bros. Vs Harlem Heat (Fall Brawl)

ECW

1. Rob Van Dam Vs Jerry Lynn (Living Dangerously)
2. Rob Van Dam Vs Jerry Lynn (Hardcore Heaven)
3. Rob Van Dam/Sabu Vs Jinsei Shinzaki/Hayabusa (Heatwave)
4. Mike Awesome Vs Masato Tanaka (Heatwave)
5. Rob Van Dam/Sabu Vs Eliminators ('96)

ROH

1. CM Punk Vs Samoa Joe (World Title Classic)
2. Samoa Joe Vs Kenta Kobashi (Joe Vs Kobashi)
3. Austin Aries Vs Bryan Danielson (Testing the Limit)
4. Briscoe Bros. Vs Kevin Steen/El Generico (Man Up)
5. Bryan Danielson Vs Low-Ki Vs Christopher Daniels (The Era of Honor Begins)*


----------



## Bubz

How are the Kobashi/Kawada matches? I know there is one (or maybe more) that went to an hour time limit. I need to see more Kawada stuff.


----------



## topper1

bubz123 said:


> How are the Kobashi/Kawada matches? I know there is one (or maybe more) that went to an hour time limit. I need to see more Kawada stuff.


Haven't watched it recently but 6/12/98 is considered the best match between them.


----------



## Horselover Fat

Naoki Sano vs Ken Shamrock PWFG 5/19/91

my only five star match


----------



## Violent By Design

I've never seen any PWFG. It is a work like UWF is right?

Do you have a link to said match? Also, do you know of anyone reliable who is selling disc for that?


----------



## Horselover Fat

I can't find it on the internet downloadable or viewable. I have a link for a comp that it's on but I don't think you're allowed to link other wrestling forums on WF :\. It's a goodhelmet comp though, if that means anything to you then you'll know where to find it.


----------



## D'Angelo

PWFG was the fucking shit, and the comp is great.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Seen that Sano vs Shamrock pimped to high heaven DDT, its on the PWFG comp released between Goodhelmet & the Segunda Caida crew. If anyone has Goodhelemt's email address then you can get it from him, its only 7 discs IIRC so it should be one of his cheaper comps as in no more than £20 I'm sure. 

PWFG, UWF, BattlARTS, RINGS & FUTEN are all great though. Anjoh, Funaki, Nakano, FUJIWARA, VOLK Han, Tamura, Kohsaka, Shabata, Ikeda and Ishikawa are all terrific.

Edit: [email protected]. There is Goodhelmet's email address (unless he's changed it). If anyone isn't aware of him the guy is responsible for some of the greatest comps ever made covering Lucha, Japan, Europe, Territories and WWWF.


----------



## antoniomare007

surprised that there isn't a lot of Jushin Liger love in this thread. He was a fucking beast in the 90's (his match against Sano is the GOAT Jr match, imo). And he is still awesome nowadays.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I do really like Liger, but I've really soured on the whole Junior style of wrestling save for a few Mid 90s matches (admittely Liger is in a few of these matches I can still enjoy) but I don't really love enough of his 20 minute plus matches as I would say 2 years ago. I've really come around to guys who can bring character and determined selling to junior matches instead of the cliche sprint nature of the style (SUWA). Liger is one of the better sellers and character esque juniors around, but I'd sooner watch him heeling it up like a prick in the NJPW vs NOAH feud from 2002 than say a 20 minute sprint.

I do love that Sano match though (assuming its the 1990 one) and off the top of my head could only think of Benoit vs Eddie BOTSJ 1996 as rivalling it.


----------



## D'Angelo

Segunda Caida said:


> Seen that Sano vs Shamrock pimped to high heaven DDT, its on the PWFG comp released between Goodhelmet & the Segunda Caida crew. If anyone has Goodhelemt's email address then you can get it from him, its only 7 discs IIRC so it should be one of his cheaper comps as in no more than £20 I'm sure.
> 
> PWFG, UWF, BattlARTS, RINGS & FUTEN are all great though. Anjoh, Funaki, Nakano, FUJIWARA, VOLK Han, Tamura, Kohsaka, Shabata, Ikeda and Ishikawa are all terrific.
> 
> Edit: [email protected]. There is Goodhelmet's email address (unless he's changed it). If anyone isn't aware of him the guy is responsible for some of the greatest comps ever made covering Lucha, Japan, Europe, Territories and WWWF.


Them five promotions are great. UWF and its 345 spin offs are awesome :lmao

Fujiwara, Tamura and Han embarass people who think they are good on the mat. Only a few lucha guys can compete with them. Fujinami is fucking awesome too, and I hate it when people say he shouldn't be considered one of the greats when he was a fiend for the whole of the 80s.



antoniomare007 said:


> surprised that there isn't a lot of Jushin Liger love in this thread. He was a fucking beast in the 90's (his match against Sano is the GOAT Jr match, imo). And he is still awesome nowadays.


Liger is one of my personal favourites of all time. Literally great at mostly everything. Ridiculously consistent career too. 88-96 was fucking awesome and Goodhelmet made a comp of that period too.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I'd recommend U-Style Stringer specifically a Tamura match from 2004. Its on 'the site' as well.


----------



## Yeah1993

Had the PWFG comp for months and haven't even started it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Yeah1993 said:


> Had the PWFG comp for months and haven't even started it.




In all seriousness I don't think I've ever seen 1 wrestling fan actually commit to watching a set comp for an extended period of time :lmao


----------



## Yeah1993

I've never finished any comp I've ever bought, except for a WWE DVD release. Comes close with a few, though. Definitely getting the Dangerous Alliance done soonish.


----------



## McQueen

Yeah I only got halfway through Memphis, Mid South, BattlARTS etc.


----------



## SuperDuperSonic

I'm getting sick of the positivity of this thread. Let's talk about TNA, Michael Cole, and Sami Callahan.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

SuperDuperSonic said:


> I'm getting sick of the positivity of this thread. Let's talk about TNA, Michael Cole, and Sami Callahan.


Can't we just make a 'DUD' thread instead? 

In keeping with the positive attitude  :

TNA put on one really really really excellent match between Joe & Styles in 2005, Michael Cole would make a good manager in moderation and Calihan isn't bad when someone like Finlay kicks his ass (no Skittle, I don't mean literally)


----------



## Bubz

TNA is gay, Michael Cole is gay and Calihan is gay but bareable sometimes. I think that about sums it up.

Back to 5* talk ...


----------



## McQueen

SuperDuperSonic said:


> I'm getting sick of the positivity of this thread. Let's talk about TNA, Michael Cole, and Sami Callahan.


I'm pretty sure I saw Davey Richards name ruin this thread. And that guy who had every Angle match in TNA in his "shortlist"


----------



## WOOLCOCK

*Yuki Ishikawa v Carl Greco, BattlARTS 06/09/2008*

This is not just one of the best demonstrations of shoot style wrestling of the past decade, but quite honestly one of the best matches I have ever seen and deserving of the word 'classic'.

The matwork in this is absolutely sublime and not your standard Ishikawa BattlARTS match. Ishikawa has more of a puro shoot style of matwork whereas Greco operates more of an MMA approach in getting takedowns and submissions from a dominant position and naturally it creates quite the battle between both with some painful submissions mixed in with gritty matwork that would please Finlay and Regal to no end.

The rope breaks for each man are timed superbly throughout the match, each one comes at just the right time after a submission is applied and helps the natural flow of the match. Ishikawa in particular really sells the damage well throughout the match, his facial expressions on a few submissions are really classy and he looks a man spent of energy in the closing moments which really adds to the drama in which Maestro can score the deciding submission.

Up until 10 minutes of this match, it has been sublime matwork and drama between two sensational wrestlers, whilst extraordinary you could list many of the great things about this match in numerous PWFG, UWF, RINGS and BattlARTS matches. What truly sets this match apart from numerous others in creating unprecedented drama is the closing 4 minutes:

Both men are a spent force with both having just scored close victories. This match has had an amazing vibe of two maestros dueling it out to prove who is the better man and just when the finish appears to be over, both men back away to the ropes and voluntarily give up their final rope break before circling back to the centre.

From here the exchanges are breathtaking, there will be no additional rope breaks now and as both men take to the mat to duel it out for the final time its clear 1 mistake will cost 1 opponent the match. I won't spoil the finish but will only say it has one of the greatest finishing stretches of all time and a spectacular closing submission.

A true classic of shoot style wrestling right up there with Volk Han vs Tamura, Tamura vs Kohsuka, Sano vs Shamrock & Fujiwara vs Maeda.

*******


----------



## McQueen

I wonder if thats on my BatBat comp.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

If it isn't I have the dailymotion link to it (credit to Yeah1993)


----------



## McQueen

Sure link me.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6e7ws_yuki-ishikawa-vs-carl-greco-battlar_sport


----------



## Yeah1993

BatBat comp was made years ago so it's only got 96 through to 01 and one match from 02 i think. Watch Ishikawa/Otsuka/Sawa vs. Ikeda/Tiger II/Usuda 27/6/08. Better than Ishikawa/Greco.


----------



## 450clash12x

HBK vs Undertaker wrestlemania 25 
eddie edwards va davey richards- best in the world 2011
MCMG vs Beer Money- series of matches during the summer on impact 
Joe Vs Punk- Joe vs Punk II 
Kenta vs Bryan Danielson
Savage vs Steamboat- wrestlemania III
Ziggler vs Daniel Bryan- Bragging Rights 2010
Low ki vs jack Evans vs xima ion vs austin aries- Destination x 2011
Tyler Black vs Roderick Strong


----------



## seabs

*Had a list about a year back but it hasn't been updated since then so there's probably a match or two missing. Only blank spots are Joshi and Lucha.

Austin vs Trips - 3SOH - NWO 01
HBK vs Trips - SSlam 02
HBK vs Ramon - Ladder Match - WM 10
Bret vs Owen - WM 10
HBK vs Benoit vs Trips - WM 20
Austin vs Bret - WM 13
HBK vs Taker - HIAC - Bad Blood 97
TLC I - Summerslam 2000

Flair vs Steamboat - WWar 89
Flair vs Steamboat - Chi-Town 89

Joe vs AJ vs Daniels - Unbreakable 05
XXX vs AMW - SSOS - Turning Point 04

Hennig vs Bockwinkel - AWA 85

Kobashi vs Sasaki - NOAH 05
Kobashi/Go vs Sasaki/Nakajima - NOAH 05
Kobashi vs Misawa - NOAH 03
KENTA/Ishimori vs Marafuji/Ibushi - NOAH 07

Joe vs Punk II - ROH 04
Danielson vs Strong - Supercard Of Honor
Nigel vs Danielson - Driven
Wolves vs Danielson/Black - Tag Title Classic

Jumbo/Misawa I
Jumbo/Misawa II
Can-ams vs Kobashi/Kikuchi - 25/05/1992
Misawa/Kobashi vs Kawada/Taue - 24/01/1995
Misawa/Kobashi vs Kawada/Taue - 9/6/1995
Misawa vs Kobashi - 20/01/1997

My *****3/4 list would be much cooler with stuff like Murdoch/Windham, Duggan/DiBiase, Lawler/Dundee, Lawler/Idol, Liger/Sano, Kanemoto/Samuarai and Santo/Casas/Dandy amongst others.*


----------



## topper1

No Kawada vs Misawa from 94?


----------



## seabs

*Nope. I like it a lot but I don't follow the whole GMOAT stuff myself.*


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Ric Flair scoffs at people who wrestle under 40 minutes. And Barry Windham rocks a moustache!!

*Ric Flair vs Barry Windham, NWA Heavyweight Championship, Battle Of The Belts II, 14/07/1986 *

Flair's pre match promo is magnificent. He manages to convey the arrogance that makes his character so engaging in the Windham matches whilst also retaining a certain air of respect for Windham in accepting he is in for perhaps the fight of his career. He establishes Windham has everything to gain and nothing to lose from tonight's match and accepts that once again Flair is going to have to face up to his challenger bringing his best, and hope it brings out the best in Flair. The guy then comes out to fuckin Phil Collins for pete sake, what a man :lmao :lmao :lmao .

Flair vs Windham is a classic rivalry, much like the Steamboat feud you have the arrogance of Flair against the heart and resilience of plucky young Barry Windham. They're a clear contrast between face and heel and it makes for quite the spectacle. Flair is the perfect foil for Windham to dethrone as champion and Windham is the perfect challenger for Flair to toy with and play to a crowd. As cliche as it sounds both men were born to wrestle each other.

The opening exchanges are very familiar to a classic Flair title defence. Before the match starts Flair offers his hand to Windham, its a sign that beneath this arrogance and confidene of the champion is a man who is proud to be champion and who wants to prove he is the best. Windham though on the back of Flair's promo sets the tempo perfectly in the early going. They take it to the mat after Windham scores the early advantage with his size and power proving too much for Flair. Windham targets the arm as a means of weakening the champ and securing an early advantage, he knows Flair is perhaps the best conditioned man in wrestling so he has to secure an advantage early, Flair has some great selling touches and I especially loved his cry of anguish as Windham wrenched in on a hammerlock.

Flair then demonstrates his brilliance by improvising off of a botch. As he's thrown into the ropes his head bounces off and he essentially collapses to the ground instead of coming back into the centre of the ring. He screams and flops to the corner immediately and we get another display in the character contrast, Windham begrudgingly allows Flair the time to get himself together out of the corner as a mark of respect to the champion. Flair though on the back of an ass kicking so far spots the opening and tries to chop Windham out of desperation. I dug how this played off of the Flair handshake at the start, he's a man of honour in treating the NWA title as the best...but he's out for himself and will do anything to retain his title including exploiting any advantage. Windham gets incredibly pissed at this display of poor sportsmanship on Flair's part and starts to attack him repeatedly, now Flair has backed himself into another corner by angering a man who was already on his A game.

Flair briefly manages to get some control, he displays some savvy mat skills in reversing Windham into a unique pinning position whilst carefully maneovering himself within touching distance of the ropes for leverage. Windham bridges to break the pin and then scores the advantage with his punches before targeting the back of Flair via a boston crab. Flair sells it like death and then rashly attempts a suplex not long after which Windham smartly counters into a crossbody and attempted pin. From here Flair senses he almost conceded defeat and sets about evening the odds and dumps Windham to the floor. He bloodies him via the guardrail and the whole setup of the spot was terrific. Flair has demonstrated his intelligence and experience will be his key to victory here against a young challenger in Windham who appears on this night to be the better man. Flair smartly works on the bloodied forehead of Windham and works the crowd to a tee with his renewed confidence now that the bloodied Windham is fighting from the bottom.

But the control doesn't last long! Flair's arrogance gets the better of him and Windham dodges a kneedrop and works over Flair's legs. Again whilst Windham has dominated the majority of the match he's had to continually switch up his game because of Flair's resilience, again so simple but so brilliant. He locks on a figure four leglock and Flair appears a broken man fighting to retain his belt. He grabs the ropes and from here on out sells the legs terrificly, he hobbles and winces for minutes after the legwork and even down the stretch hobbles to let the viewer know he hasn't recovered from the damage, all building to an epic crossbody counter which scores Windham a close call down the stretch. In the meantime, Windham again sets on a new target in scoring the victory and bloodies Flair in revenge for earlier. Both men now start to sell the exhaustion of the match and their offence gets a lot more sluggish and tired looking, given how both men have shown they have the ability to best the other one the finishing stretch becomes increasingly dramatic.

The commentators are terrific in shifting from Windham looking better early on, to Flair's control in bloodying Windham, to Windham evening the odds before discussing if Windham's inexperience will prove costly against Flair. Windham charges into the corner and catches a knee close to a low blow, Flair now struts and targets the legs which Barry sells like death. The pain on both men's faces is terrific and the pacing has been magnificent. Barry scores with the Lariat on two occasions but Flair again gets the ropes, the story of Flair being able to survive Windham's onslaught but never being able to control the match makes for a captivating story on how Windham can go about scoring the victory and whether his desperation will play into Flair's hands. Even the ref bump is paced superbly and creates another moment where Windham appears to have the match won only for Flair to catch another break, here Windham scores with a dropkick from the top whilst the ref is down. The way Barry instinctively goes to check on the ref whilst Flair seeks to catch Barry off guard again demonstrates the clash in characters terrificly.

The finish is what for me keeps this as a terrific match. Both men have exhausted every attempt to put the other down to no avail, Flair nearly gets beaten via a rollup from the figure four due to his overconfidence (again playing into the story) and in desperation resorts to a crossbody which takes both men to the floor. Flair fights to stop Windham getting back in the ring (perhaps signalling he accepts he cannot beat him on this night, and plays into a spot where Flair tosses Windham over the top rope during the ref bump which would have been an obvious DQ). Both men continue to fight one another and the ref calls a double countout, whilst most likely a bum finish to most this keeps the match story of Windham not having enough to beat Flair due to his resilience but drilling home the message that Flair realises he cannot afford to go another 15 minutes. It sets up a future rematch to a tee and completes the match arc, something I'm a sucker for when watching a match. Seeing how cocky Flair becomes a desperate man in the closing stages of matches and looks a far cry from himself at the start of the match never gets old and always ensures the match has progressed.

*******


----------



## McQueen

I have that match on a set I own but I haven't watched it in a few years and can't recall all of the details. I remember it being fucking great though.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Yeah somewhere amongst that wall of text and aside from rating it ******* I'm sure I mentioned it ruled the goddamn universe


----------



## McQueen

If I weren't going to see a band who was big in 1986 tonight (what the hell its free) i'd think about finding the DVD I have with that match on it. Its been a long time since i've sat down and watched a Flair match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

Fucking LOVE that match. Second greatest match in the history of everything imo, and the closest I've seen a match get to HBK/Undertaker HIAC. Wish their were more Windham/Flair matches out there .


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Well that freaking sucks (not watching Flair, not the band). I always find myself loving Flair even more when I watch his 80's run, he and Windham do a lot stuff that would be 'by the numbers' if you had two ordinary workers try it but they manage to make even the most basic hold mean something and seem better than it should be.

The story in that match of Windham being better than Flair but not enough to the point where he can beat him and thus making mistakes which Flair uses to try and get a bit of control was freaking immense. Pacing was delightful and they even did a ref bump perfectly, and Flair does the best improvisation of a botch I've seen since Liger vs Sasuke.

Edit: Cal I'd put this behind Flair vs Steamboat COTC and maybe Chi Town. Would put it above Wrestlewar and would say its a top 3 for Flair's career. Dug it that much. 

Also got a choice for the final match to watch tonight. Flair vs Kerry Von Erich from Hawaii (seen this pimped as MOTDC) or Lawler vs Dundee 6/6/83?


----------



## xzeppelinfootx

God I hate Barry Windham, in an unexplainable BJ Whitmer kinda way. However I don't doubt at all that Flair carried him to a great match. I've seen a Windham/Flair before (don't think it was this one) and it was quite good but gosh. That damn Windham.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Flair carried nobody that night. Not sure how you can hate Windham (its like TNA booking a semi logical angle with a satisfying payoff) but I suppose opinions will be opinions.






(Your opinion sucks btw, only joking )


----------



## Cactus

This thing should be stickied. Agreed?


----------



## Mattyb2266

Cactus Clothesline said:


> This thing should be stickied. Agreed?


Agreed.


----------



## antoniomare007

I always have a hard time remembering what Windham/Flair match I like more. The BOTB II or the Crockett Cup one...and the World Wide Wrestling match is fucking awesome too.


----------



## Cactus

Guys. Throw a short 5 star match at me. Let's say 10 minutes max.


----------



## Tanner1495

Cactus Clothesline said:


> Guys. Throw a short 5 star match at me. Let's say 10 minutes max.


Andre/Hansen NJPW 1981 I believe is about 15 minutes, but well worth the time .


----------



## FITZ

Cactus Clothesline said:


> Guys. Throw a short 5 star match at me. Let's say 10 minutes max.


Don't think I've ever given a match under 10 minutes 5*s.


----------



## Cactus

That was a fun match to watch. Not sure about 5 star though. Any more?


----------



## McQueen

Kobashi/Kikuchi vs CanAm Express from May 92 in All Japan for the All Asia tag titles. Its a clipped match no matter what version you find but it at best runs at 14 minutes if I recall correctly. Might have the hottest crowd ever during the match.

But not the epically awesome "Dancing Kawada Fan" from 6/3/94, best fan ever.


----------



## Yeah1993

the Han vs. Tamura trilogy is the closest thing to five star ten minute matches pro wretling will ever get. They're shoot style, though, so it's a slightly different bean.

Flair carrying Windham is something I don't get AT ALL.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

^ what Yeah1993 said. Volk Han vs Tamura 22/01/1997 is 12 minutes and is about as close as I can give a match the full 5 in under 15 minutes. Nakano vs Masakatsu Funaki UWF would also be close.

Both are on Youtube btw.

Kobashi & Kikuchi vs Can Am Express is also a great shout.

Lawler vs Dundee, Loser Leaves Town 30/12/1985 is also a terrific match and is clipped a bit so the footage is under 20 minutes IIRC.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

LAWLER VS DUNDEE. LAWLER HATES DUNDEE, DUNDEE HATES LAWLER. MEMPHIS AIN'T BIG ENOUGH FOR THE TWO OF 'EM, OVER TO TAYLOR SWIFT TO SELL THIS MATCH BETTER THAN I:~

























*Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee, Southern Heavyweight Championship, No DQ, Loser Leaves Town, Memphis 30/12/1985 *

Seen this match been pimped by the folks at DVDVR and other forums which have done a ballot/reviewed the Memphis set as an 80s MOTDC and something deserving to be praised alongsider Funk vs Flair, Flair vs Kerry Hawaii, Flair vs Windham, Flair (like seriously him again??) vs Steamboat, Murdoch vs Windham, Slaughter vs Sheik, Lawler vs Dundee 6/6/83, Slaughter & Kernodle vs Steamboat & Youngblood and you know what.....this match freaking comes as close as a match can to rivalling Flair vs Steamboat COTC and Flair vs Windham BOTB II as my 80s MOTD.

The pacing is perfect, the character clash between smug and cocky Bill 'Superstar' Dundee and hometown idol Jerry Lawler with only one good eye due to a prior sneak attack, the Mid South Coliseum is rocking, Dundee's wife is at ringside telling Lawler to fuck off and faces and heels are at ringside supporting their man. Its Clash of the freaking Titans and I'm still not doing the environment and setting justice.

Right from the get go Dundee puts in an incredible heel performance. Lawler does a sterling job pointing out to even the most retarded Memphis resident in the building sucking on moonshine that even Good Ol' King has his work cut out trying to win with ONE FUCKING EYE. Dundee throws some incredible punches, he corners Jerry and then casually strolls away like the biggest freaking prick in the universe and mockingly taunts Lawler to come to him. He ducks in and out, circles Lawler, strays away so he's out of Lawler's eyesight, he leans in offering his chin on a plate to Lawler and then ducks making Jerry look like a fool. Then he does it again and then has the cheek to punch Jerry whilst he's mocking him. FUCK BILL DUNDEE.

His assault is relentless. He punches Lawler repeatedly in his bandaged eye, tries to rip apart the bandages to gouge the eye and then boots Lawler square in the face after they tease Lawler making a comeback. The heat is incredible and Lawler is pulling out a Rocky esque performance. Even the WWE section would be cheering for the guy for christ sake. All of this heat control segment builds and builds with the occasional gorgeous headbutt thrown by Dundee which Lawler bumps for in oh so epic fashion before Lawler lands a right hand!!! Dundee spirals backwards and the crowd goes insane, the pacing has been delicious in building to that one shot from Lawler...but in an instant Dundee charges at Lawler and headbutts him with such force Dundee spirals out of the ring still selling the punch from Lawler. NOW I LOVE BILL DUNDEE.

Dundee girates to his wife that he has this in the bag, Lawler is scraping and trying to mount a comeback however possible and this crowd is demanding Dundee's ass be served on a platter. Eventually Dundee grows frustrated with Lawler's resilience and a commercial break sees them fighting on the outside and eventually into the stands. I lost my shit when Lawler follows Dundee who insists on leaving the arena and Lawler comes within striking distance of punching the bitch, 'he really wouldn't hit a woman would he? Even Memphis has its limits'....and sadly they do as Lawler ignores Dundee's wife and follows him instead (BOOOOOOOO). They fight into the stands and trade brutal punches before Dundee rocks Lawler with a combo and Lawler goes over the barrier to the concrete fall in one of the best bumps I have ever witnessed. Its fucking insane and probably inspired Foley to say 'you think that shit's cool I'll make an entire career making that look ordinary...GOD BLESS YOU MICK FOLEY).

Anyways Dundee drags the ref back to the ring determined to win by countout seeing as Lawler just fell 15 feet to friggin concrete. But then we get an insane moment as the camera pans back to the stands and LAWLER IS WALKING BACK!!!. Obvious 'lol wrestling logic' aside Lawler looks like freaking Godzilla about to crush Tokyo. His eye is bleeding profousely and HE IS PISSED. He gets back in the ring and all hell breaks loose. Punches and headbutts galore from both men, Lawler rocks Dundee with 4 insane punches and Dundee is bumping like Arn Anderson and Ric Flair combined, he's doing a 360 spin before collaping on his ass and its like even better than Lawler doing his Godzilla impression 30 seconds ago. Lawler also takes the time to eat a sickening ring post shot, it was disgusting even for this match but he will not be denied. He takes revenge on Dundee using Lawler's own fist drop from the second rope move and beats on Dundee unmercifully and rocks him with a few rights. Dundee retailiates and Lawler begs for more, the reaction is insane as Lawler looks deranged and wants more. Dundee gives it his all but Lawler pulls down the straps and BUSINESS IS ABOUT TO PICK UP.

More insane punches from Lawler as Dundee now looks to be moments from defeat, his confidence and swagger has diminished as a deranged man with an unhealty libido runs amok in a surprisingly clean Memphis ring, you get the feeling Lawler is that insane he'd defile Mrs Dundee in the ring post match. The crowd is itching for the piledriver......WHEN SOMEONE HANDS DUNDEE A FOREIGN OBJECT AND HE CLOCKS LAWLER OVER THE HEAD!!!!!

1........2.............................3!!!! Fucking Dundee has sent Lawler out of Memphis, the crowd is as silent as The Bukodan or the room after Mason Ryan someone passes another wellness test. Dundee celebrates with the belt like the biggest piece of shit ever. Its like if Apollo knocked Rocky out and then violated him with his own boxing glove. Dundee's just a grade A piece of horse shit and Lawler has been run out of town.

The match is sadly clipped by a few minutes and in the highlights we find out they clipped possibly the best piledriver Lawler has ever hit. I legit thought Dundee had died on impact. Jesus.

Yeah this was awesome, I'm tired so I'll just put you out of your wait:

*******


----------



## Cactus

Seeing as this thread is dying, I figured I will though in my updated list with some removals and additions. I removed a few matches because they weren't as good as I originally thought.

*WWF/E:*
Bootcamp Match: Sgt. Slaughter vs The Iron Sheik (6/16/1984)
Bret Hart Vs Mr. Perfect (6/13/1993)
Cage Match: Owen Hart Vs Bret Hart (8/29/1994)
Submission Match: Stone Cold Steve Austin Vs Bret Hart (3/23/1997)
TLC Match: The Hardyz Vs Edge & Christian Vs The Dudley Boyz (8/27/2000)
No DQ Match: Steve Austin Vs The Rock (4/1/2001)
Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho vs Triple H & Steve Austin (5/25/2001)
Chris Benoit Vs Kurt Angle (1/19/2003)
Shawn Michaels Vs Undertaker (4/5/2009)
John Cena Vs CM Punk (7/17/2011)

*ROH:*
Samoa Joe Vs Kenta Kobashi (10/1/05)

*AJPW:*
Jumbo Tsurata Vs Mitsuharu Misawa (6/8/1990)
Dan Kroffat & Doug Furnas Vs Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi
Kikuchi (5/25/1992)
Masanobu Fuchi & Yoshinari Ogawa Vs Kenta Kobashi &
Tsuyoshi Kikuchi (7/5/1992)
Toshiaki Kawada Vs Mitsuharu Misawa (3/6/1994)
Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi Vs Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (6/9/1995)
Kenta Kobashi Vs Mitsuharu Misawa (10/31/1998)

*NJPW:*
Tiger Mask Vs The Dynamite Kid (4/23/1983)
Jushin Liger Vs Great Sasuke (7/8/1994)
Jushin Liger Vs The Great Muta (10/20/1996)

*NOAH:*
Kenta Kobashi Vs Mitsuharu Misawa (3/1/2003)
Kenta Kobashi Vs Jun Akiyama (7/10/2004)
*
Joshi:*
Aja Kong Vs Manami Toyota (11/20/1994)


----------



## Fighter Daron

Two "new" additions:

*WWF/E: *
Stone Cold Steve Austin Vs Bret Hart - Wrestlemania XIII
Stone Cold Steve Austin Vs The Rock Vs Kurt Angle Vs Triple H Vs Rikishi Vs Undertaker - _Hell in a Cell_ - Armageddon 2000
Steve Austin Vs The Rock - Wrestlemania X-7
First TLC - Wrestlemania X-7
Team WWF Vs Team Alliance - WWF: Survivor Series 2001
The Rock Vs Hulk Hogan - WWF: Wrestlemania X8
Triple H vs Chris Jericho - _Hell in a Cell Match_ - WWE: Judgement Day 2002
Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels - _Unsanctioned Match_ - WWE: Summerslam 2002
*Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels Vs Chris Jericho Vs Booker T Vs Kane Vs Rob Van Dam - Elimination Chamber - Survivor Series 2002*
Ric Flair Vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania XXIV
Shawn Michaels Vs Undertaker - Wrestlemania XXV
Shawn Michaels Vs Undertaker - Wrestlemania XXVI
John Cena Vs CM Punk - MITB 2011

*TNA*
Samoa Joe Vs Christopher Daniels Vs AJ Styles - Unbreakable 2005
Samoa Joe Vs Christopher Daniels Vs AJ Styles - Turning Point 2009

*ROH*
Low Ki vs Doug Williams vs Spanky vs Christopher Daniels - Crowning a Champion
Samoa Joe Vs CM Punk - World Title Classic
Samoa Joe Vs CM Punk - Joe Vs Punk II
ROH(Claudio Castagnoli, Delirious, Rocky Romero & Austin Aries) Vs Dragon Gate(CIMA, Dragon Kid, Ryo Saito & Yokosuka) - ROH: All Star Estravaganza 3
Kenta Kobashi Vs Samoa Joe - Joe Vs Kobashi
Bryan Danielson Vs KENTA - Glory By Honor V Night 2
Nigel McGuinness Vs Bryan Danielson - Unified

*PWG*
Bryan Danielson Vs Chris Hero - Guerre Sans Frontieres
¡Peligro Abejas! Vs Young Bucks Vs Cutler Brothers – _Guerrilla Warfare_ - PWG Seven

*CZW *
John Zandig Vs Sick Nick Mondo - _2 Out of 3 Falls Log Cabin Deathmatch_ - CZW: Tournament of Death II
Ian Rotten Vs Necro Butcher - _Fans Bring Weapons_ - CZW: Tournament of Death II

*NJPW*
Naoki Sano Vs Jushin Thunder Liger - 1-31-1990
Hiroshi Tanahashi Vs Hirooki Goto - Destruction 2007
Hiroshi Tanahashi Vs Satoshi Kojima - G1 Climax 2010 Final

*AJPW*
Jumbo Tsuruta Vs Genichiro Tenryu - 05/06/1989
Mitsuharu Misawa Vs Toshaki Kawada - 03/06/1994
*Mitsuharu Misawa Vs Kenta Kobashi - 21/10/1997*

*NOAH*
Kensuke Sasaki Vs Go Shiozaki - 24/07/10

*Dragon Gate*
YAMATO Vs Naruki Doi - Compilation Gate 2010


----------



## ViolenceIsGolden

If a 5 star match had to have amazing build up and back story as well as importance to the company or as a turning point in their product then I think MANY of the matches in the lists in this thread would not qualify. Even Cena/Punk as good of a match and build up as it was it didn't change the company or product forever YET at least. This is why I have so much trouble giving a match 5 stars because a 5 star match should qualify as GOAT not just something I enjoyed the hell out of. Then where would the cut off line be? I think anything oldschool is great wrestling with great build up but now most of those programs in oldschool southern promotions have been lost and burried deep in the archives.


----------



## Brye

Fuck it, I love this match.
*
Umaga vs John Cena - Royal Rumble 2007*

This match should be considered a goddamn classic. Umaga comes into this match with just one loss and via a rollup nevertheless. Cena wrestles a majority of this match a bloody mess with possibly Cena's best blade job since Cena/JBL. Umaga pulls out all the stops to try and end the career of Cena. Cena is still showing the effect of his rib injury from Umaga splashing him through a table off the ropes. The steel steps play a big part in this match as Umaga and Cena destroy each other. They really play Umaga off as a huge threat. Umaga kicks his ass but unlike some of the Cena I Quit matches I don't quite enjoy, Cena gets a good amount of offense on Umaga as well, much of it using the steel steps and trying to outsmart Umaga. Cena nails Umaga's head with the moniter as it is right next to the ring post and the camera angle makes it look real as fuck, even on replay. SOMEHOW Umaga manages to get up from that. Umaga takes control again but misses his running splash through the ECW announce table and yet again, HE'S UP! Meanwhile JR is selling the fuck out of this match and putting over both guys big time. Estrada starts taking off the top rope and Umaga looks to use it to his advantage but NO! Cena finally hits the FU on Umaga and knocks Estrada off the apron. Cena locks in the STFU using the rope to choke Umaga. This goes on for quite a while until Cena lets go. BUT UMAGA IS GETTING BACK UP AT FOUR! Cena finally chokes him again in the STFU with the rope to put Umaga down. - *******

Unbelievable match, imo. Favorite LMS ever and one hell of a war. JBL puts it over as Cena's best performance after the match as well.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

Think I went down to ***1/4 on last watch of that match .


----------



## Brye

I remember you not being a big fan of the rope situation.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

Yeah lol, the build to the finish was just incredibly stupid and ONLY there so Cena could choke out Umaga. There were other things I didn't like about it too though, not just that, though it was a major annoyance for me .


----------



## Brye

I would've liked to have seen Umaga use the turnbuckle thing on Cena, only for him to get up at 9 and then do something from there but you're absolutely right about that.


----------



## topper1

KingCal said:


> Think I went down to ***1/4 on last watch of that match .


The match was a great monster vs face match you don't need to rate it insanely high but *** 1/4


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

***1/4 is a great rating and... damn, you are fairly new so you won't remember the days of Austin101 constantly telling people that *** was a GREAT rating .

But yeah, I couldn't go any higher. Too much shit I hated about it, especially the end with was fucking dumb (not Cena choking out Umaga, but the set up to it).


----------



## Yeah1993

I wish they would have done something with Umaga giving Cnea an Irsih Whip and sending that entire turnbuckle off. Not sure that's possible but the thought of it is awesome.


----------



## peep4life

KingCal said:


> ***1/4 is a great rating and... damn, you are fairly new so you won't remember the days of Austin101 constantly telling people that *** was a GREAT rating .
> 
> But yeah, I couldn't go any higher. Too much shit I hated about it, especially the end with was fucking dumb (not Cena choking out Umaga, but the set up to it).


Austin 101 How I miss his gigantic reviews of matches. :no:
Umaga/Cena does have faults, but its amazing so ****1/4 from me


----------



## topper1

**** 1/2 for Umaga vs Cena haven't seen it in a while but I remember thinking it was one of the best monster matches of the last decade.


----------



## wrestlingworld

What Makes a match a five star match is this your opinion?


----------



## ViolenceIsGolden

All Japan
Misawa vs. Jumbo I
Misawa vs. Jumbo II
Misawa vs. Kobashi I
Misawa vs. Kobashi II
Stan Hansen and Bruiser Brody vs. Dory and Terry Funk 1984
Stan Hansen vs. Kenta Kobashi 1993

NOAH
Misawa vs. Vader 1999
Misawa vs. Kobashi III
Danielson vs. KENTA

World Class
Terry Gordy vs. Killer Khan 1984
Ric Flair vs. Kerry Von Erich Steel Cage Match 1982

TNA
Americas Most Wanted vs. Triple X Six Sides of Steel 2004
AJ Styles vs. Christopher Daniels vs. Samoa Joe Unbreakable 2005

ROH
Samoa Joe vs. CM Punk I
Samoa Joe vs. CM Punk II
Samoa Joe vs. Kenta Kobashi 
El Generico vs. Kevin Steen Final Battle 2010

New Japan
Antonio Inoki vs. Ric Flair 1994

AWA
Curt Henning vs. Nick Bockwinkle 1989

Jim Crockett/WCW
Rock N Roll Express vs. Ivan Koloff and Krusher Kruchev 1985
Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat I, II, and III
Ric Flair vs. Terry Funk Great American Bash 1989
Wargames match Great American Bash 1989
Wargames match Wrestle War 1991

WWE
Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart Wrestlemania 10
Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels Wrestlemania 12
Stone Cold vs. Bret Hart Survivor Series 1996
Stone Cold vs. Bret Hart Wrestlemania 13
The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels Bad Blood 1997
Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle Royal Rumble 2003
The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels Wrestlemania 25
CM Punk vs. John Cena Money in the Bank 2011

MMA
Royce Gracie vs. Kimo Leopoldo 1994
Royce Gracie vs. Dan Severn 1994
Royce Gracie vs. Ken Shamrock 1995
Tito Ortiz vs. Frank Shamrock 1999
Royce Gracie vs. Sakuraba 2000
Don Frye vs. Takayama 2002
Randy Couture vs. Pedro Rizzo I 2001
Randy Couture vs. Pedro Rizzo II 2001
Forrest Griffin vs. Stephan Bonnar 2005
Wanderlei Silva vs. Chuck Liddell 2007
Wanderlei Silva vs. Quinton Jackson III 2008
Anderson Silva vs. Chael Sonnen 2010


----------



## MRRSNTNO

Edge & Rey Mysterio *vs.* Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit ~ No Mercy 2002
Kurt Angle *vs.* Shawn Michaels ~ WrestleMania 21
Kurt Angle *vs.* The Undertaker ~ No Way Out 2006
Edge [vs.] The Undertaker ~ WrestleMania XXIV
Shawn Michaels *vs.* The Undertaker ~ WrestleMania XXVI
John Cena *vs.* CM Punk ~ Money In The Bank 2011

Kurt & Shawn always takes the cake, though.


----------



## smkelly13

Destroyer vs. Giant Baba 3/5/69 JWA
Terry Funk vs. Jumbo Tsuruta 6/11/76 All Japan
Andre the Giant vs. Stan Hansen 9/23/81 New Japan
Tatsumi Fujinami & Antonio Inoki vs. Dick Murdoch & Adrian Adonis 12/5/84 New Japan
Stan Hansen & Terry Gordy vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Toshiaki Kawada 12/16/88 All Japan
Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Genichiro Tenryu 6/5/89 All Japan
Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Masanobu Fuchi 5/22/92 All Japan
Stan Hansen vs. Toshiaki Kawada 2/28/93 All Japan
Stan Hansen vs. Kenta Kobashi 7/29/93 All Japan
Jushin Liger vs. Great Sasuke 4/16/94 New Japan
Wild Pegasus vs. Great Sasuke 4/16/94 New Japan
Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada 6/3/94 All Japan
Owen Hart vs. Bret Hart 8/29/94 WWF
Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue 6/9/95 All Japan
Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue 12/6/96 All Japan
Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi 1/20/97 All Japan
Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin 3/23/97 WWF
Terry Funk vs. Sabu 8/9/97 ECW
Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi 10/21/97 All Japan
Eddy Guerrero vs. Rey Misterio Jr 10/26/97 WCW
Mankind vs. Undertaker 6/28/98 WWF
Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi 10/31/98 All Japan
Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi 6/11/99 All Japan
Hardy Boys vs. Edge & Christian 10/17/99 WWF
Dudley Boys vs. Hardy Boys vs. Edge & Christian 8/27/00 WWF
Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho vs. Steve Austin & Triple H 5/21/01 WWF
Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle 1/19/03 WWF
Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi 3/1/03 NOAH
Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H 3/14/04 WWF
Kenta Kobashi vs. Jun Akiyama 7/10/04 NOAH
Super Dragon vs. Necro Butcher 9/2/06 PWG
Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA 9/16/06 ROH
John Cena vs. Umaga 1/28/07 WWF
Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness 6/9/07 ROH
Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA 6/23/07 ROH
Bryan Danielson vs. Takashi Morishima 8/25/07
Briscoe Brothers vs. Kevin Steen & El Generico 9/15/07 ROH


----------



## D'Attitude

WWE 5 star matches: 

The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels - Hell in a Cell Match - In Your House: Badd Blood 1997
Triple H vs. Steve Austin - Three Stages of Hell Match - No Way Out 2001
Edge and Rey Mysterio vs. Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit - Tag Team Match - No Mercy 2002
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit - Singles Match - Royal Rumble 2003
The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels - Singles Match - WrestleMania XXV

I'd pick The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels at WrestleMania XXV as the best 5 star match of the five given matches above and what I also considered The Greatest Match of All Time.

If I were to arrange these five given five star matches, it would go like this:
*
1. The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania XXV*
2. The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels - In Your House: Badd Blood 1997
3. Triple H vs. Steve Austin - No Way Out 2001
4. Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit - Royal Rumble 2003
5. Edge and Rey Mysterio vs. Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit - No Mercy 2002

Oh, and matches like Savage/Steamboat, Bret/Owen, Shawn/Razor, Bret/Austin, HHH/HBK/Benoit, Angle/HBK, Taker/HBK II and Punk/Cena were close to 5 stars.


----------



## Fighter Daron

I definately wouldn't rate it with the five stars, but it's too important to give it only two.


----------



## McQueen

The ironman match is dull as fuck. I don't give a shit about the historical significance if the match sucks. 

I have the Foley/Taker HiaC match at **, one for each Foley Bump. Come at me Bro's.


----------



## Cactus

Here's my take on those two matches.

*WrestleMania 12: Iron Man Match*
Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels
_It had it's moments, but for the most of the match it was dull. The fans showed their disapproval and some even left. It's still a good match, but to much of it was the two guys resting and preparing for next sequence of moves._
****3/4*

*King of the Ring 1998: Hell in a Cell*
Undertaker vs Mankind
_I orignally had this at 5 stars, but after skimming though it again, I relized most of the match was Foley being on a strecter. It's an epic bout first time you see, but watch it again and you will get bored and it effects the later parts of the match._
******


----------



## McQueen

Terry Funk did get Chokeslammed out of his shoes in the HIAC, that might raise it up to **** just because Terry Funk was involved. The Funker makes everything better.


----------



## Clique

It's matches like Taker/Foley HIAC and Rock/Hogan WM18 that kind of turn me off of ratings at times. I just can't properly rate those but I know how awesome and significant they are and I could easily re-watch those matches over some matches that are considered technical clinics.


----------



## antoniomare007

McQueen said:


> The ironman match is dull as fuck. I don't give a shit about the historical significance if the match sucks.


Pretty much this. The first time I watched I just wanted it to end and years later (after watching tons of 60 minute matches) I watched it again and still couldn't get into the match.



McQueen said:


> I have the Foley/Taker HiaC match at **, one for each Foley Bump. Come at me Bro's.


A lot of us have already told you that the match has way more stuff than Foley's 2 big bumps but your senile 27 year old ass doesn't seem to understand that 

It's not a 5 star match, but it has a lot more than just 2 big spots..and who gives a crap about snowflakes anyway.


----------



## McQueen

It does have way more stuff, but none of it interested me. Aside from the two big spots it just felt like any old Attitude Era RAW match to me.


----------



## 777

I've never posted in this thread before because I don't rate matches by a star system. I tend to just know what I like. Sometimes mistakes even add to the overall enjoyment of a particular battle, thus in the eyes of another it may be deemed as flawed while to me it was thoroughly amazing.

So instead I will list matches I really care for. Whether they are 'perfect' or not is debatable, but I'm able to watch them over and over again.

*LA Park vs Mesias @ Triplemania XIX* - Not one of my 'goats' but it was my favorite match so far in 2011. Yes, I know I'm the only one. I was grinning from ear to ear as I watched my 'boy' Park repeatedly attempt to use something attached to his wristband to bust open his own forehead. This match was just fun with tonnes of 'spots', great action, great drama and great wrestling. Park and Mesias are both consistently putting on fantastic matches with any opponent.

*HBK vs Razor @ WMX* - This is without a doubt my all-time favorite match. I still watch it at least once or twice a year and it holds up to anything that has been produced since. I've heard interviews where it's been said that Michaels had a match with a ladder but that's bs. Hall was a great hand and made Shawn look like gold for the duration.

*Flair vs Funk @ Clash of the Champions IX* - If I were only ever allowed to watch one 'I Quit' match for the rest of my life, this would be the one. Two masters doing what they do best. Both are great at taking and dishing out a beating.

*Superfly vs Murocco: Steel Cage Match* - This was the moment that made me a life long fan. There was no turning back after watching Snuka dive off of that cage. The actual match was short but absolutely vicious.

*Steamboat vs Savage @ WM3* - No greatest match list would be complete without it. This is about as close to a 'perfect' contest as anyone in history will ever come. RIP Randy Savage.

That's five. There a tonne of others, many I've already seen mentioned in this thread ie. Benoit/Angle, Kobashi/Misawa, Hart/Austin.

Oh, and I'd like to give an honourable mention to the *Sgt. Slaughter vs Pat Patterson Alley Fight*. Hardcore before there was hardcore.


----------



## ViolenceIsGolden

smkelly13 said:


> Terry Funk vs. Sabu 8/9/97 ECW


I'm not one to like gblood baths with senseless weapon spots such as the stuff seen in CZW but in this case forget Malenko vs. Guerrero. This was the best match ECW ever had. It was entertaining as hell from start to finish. Great story telling. Best Sabu match ever and best hardcore based match ever done in pro wrestling history.


----------



## Bubz

Funk/Sabu was pretty amazing.

My updated list...

Misawa/Kobashi v Kawada/Taue (AJPW 9/6/95)
Misawa/Kobashi v Kawada/Taue (AJPW 12/3/93)
Misawa v Jumbo (AJPW 1/9/90)
Misawa v Kawada (AJPW 3/6/94)
Kobashi/Kikuchi vs Kroffat/Furnas (AJPW 25/5/92)
Misawa v Taue (AJPW CC Final 95)

Bret Hart v Steve Austin (Wrestlemania 13)
The Rock v Steve Austin (Wrestlemania 17)
Shawn Michaels v Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania 19)
HHH v Shawn Michaels v Chris Benoit (Wrestlemania 20)

Danielson/Black v American Wolves (ROH Tag Title Classic)
Joe v Punk II (ROH Joe v Punk II)
Low Ki vs KENTA (ROH Final Battle 2005)
Joe v Kobashi (ROH Joe v Kobashi)
Danielson v KENTA (ROH Driven 2007)
Kevin Steen v El Generico (ROH Final Battle 2010)

Kobashi v Akiyama (NOAH 10/7/04)
Kobashi v Takayama (NOAH 2004)

They are the matches that I pretty much consider to be the best of all time, or my favorite matches if you like.


----------



## Baldwin.

Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat - The 1989 Trilogy. Fantastic matches, absolutely fantastic. 
Ric Flair vs. Sting - Clash of the Champions I
Ric Flair vs. Terry Funk - Clash of the Champions IX
The Four Horsemen (Ric Flair, Barry Windham, Sid Vicious) & Larry Zbyszko vs. Sting, Rick Steiner, Scott Steiner & Brian Pillman - WrestleWar 1991 - War Games
Ric Flair vs. Vader - Starrcade 1993
Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio - Halloween Havoc 1997
Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart - WrestleMania XIII

*Honorable Mentions:* 

Ric Flair vs. Triple H - Taboo Tuesday 2005; Steel Cage
Ric Flair vs. Triple H - Survivor Series 2005 - Technically, not a masterpiece but Jesus, it was brutal and fucking awesome.
Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker - WrestleMania 25
Christian vs. Randy Orton - Over The Limit 2011

Yeah, a lot of Ric Flair matches but I guess that just shows how good he is.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

May as well add mine, some matches could probably do with a rewatch though:

*WWF/E:*

Slaughter vs Sheik MSG, BootCamp Match 1984
Hart vs Austin WM 13
HBK vs Taker HIAC 1997

*NWA/Mid South:*

Flair vs Steamboat Chi Town 1989
Flair vs Steamboat COTC 1989
Flair vs Windham BOTB II
Windham vs Murdoch UWF 11/7/1987
Steamboat/Youngblood vs Kernodle/Slaughter, Final Conflict, Steel Cage 1983

*Memphis:*

Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee, Loser Leaves Town 30/12/85

*Lucha:*

El Satanico vs Gran Cochisse 1984
Blue Panther vs Atlantis 1991
Damiancito El Guerrero vs Cicloncito Ramirez 1997
Bracito De Oro/Cicloncito Ramirez/Mascarita Magica vs Damiancito El Guerrero/El Fierito/Pierrothito, 1997

*Puro:*

NJPW Gauntlet 5/1/86
Misawa vs Jumbo Rematch
Misawa/Kobashi/Kawada vs Jumbo/Taue/Fuchi 20/4/91
Misawa/Kobashi/Kawada vs Jumbo/Taue/Fuchi 22/5/92
Misawa & Kobashi vs Taue & Kawada 3/12/1993
Misawa vs Kawada 6/3/94
Misawa & Kobashi vs Kawada & Taue 6/9/95
Carl Greco vs Yuki Ishikawa BattlARTS 2008
Volk Han vs Tamura RINGS 22/1/1997

*ROH:*

Danielson vs McGuinness Unified
Danielson vs Morishima FWH Final Battle 2008

Got numerous matches on the brink of *****, Benoit vs Austin Edmonton 2001, Flair vs Wahoo McDaniel 2/3 Falls 85, Flair vs Windham Hawaii 10/12/85, Dandy vs Casas 1992, Funk vs Flair GAB 1989, Magnum TA vs Tully Blanchard 1985, Tully Blanchard vs Ron Garvin 5/3/86, Danielson vs Strong Vendetta, Punk vs Joe II, Cena vs HBK Mania 23, Danielson vs Nigel 6th Anniversary Show, Eddie vs Rey 23/6/2005, Kawada vs Hansen 2/28/93, Kobashi vs Misawa 20/1/1997, El Hijo Del Santo vs Blue Panther Monterrey 2000, Dory & Terry Funk vs Hansen & Gordy and quite a lot of others I've forgotten.

MS-1 vs Sangre Chicana 1983 may be the next one on my list, going to rewatch in the near future and am expecting to love it even more than last time.


----------



## brandeito

has anyone seen strong vs danielson from vendetta 2005 bc i just saw that and holy shit that was perfect and a 5 star match and maybe even the top 5 matches i have ever seen


----------



## McQueen

Thats my favorite ROH match ever. Not sure i'd call it the best though, I might give that honor to Danielson/McGuinness at the 6th (or is it 7th?) Anniversary show.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Yeah McQueen its 6th Anniversary Show.

Dragon vs Strong Vendetta is agonisingly close to the full 5, reminded me of a classic Flair title defence.


----------



## McQueen

Yeah I have that Dragon/Strong match at **** 89/100th's :side:

The finish was epically awesome too since I believe its the first time Danielson had to resort to that move. I was kinda upset when it became his regular finisher because it put guys over big time the first couple times he had to resort to the elbows, case in point Jimmy Rave at the 4th Anniversary Show. Its actually my biggest complaint about Danielson's work, almost like he gave into the crowd and indulged them too much. By the end of 2007 it was just like a regular move. Although I think it would be good if WWE let him start using that maneuver seeing as they're doing their best to make him look non-threatening on commentary.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Yeah I felt that way as well, seeing him bloody McGuinness in Unified and then hit those elbows was a tremendous visual. I did at least dig him trying to use them in combo with Cattle Mutilation but yeah I think he did slowly fall into pleasing the fans too much and letting them almost dictate some of his matches. I understand that by 2009 he'd essentially faced everyone there was to face in ROH but I thought it was noticeable how his match structure had altered to more of a puro BattlARTS style instead of the heavy European matwork style he employed during his 05-08 run.

Personally I always loved the odd time he'd beat someone by reversing Cattle Mutilation into that little cradle pin, always seemed like a great move to beat someone by through intelligence when all else failed.

Also I'm pretty sure there's 1 more match I know I've given the full 5 to and seem to have forgotten it. Ahhhhh it was Blue Panther vs Atlantis 1991, not a clue how I forgot it, probably the match that got me into Lucha Libre.


----------



## antoniomare007

damn, I'm not sure If I have watched that Flair vs Wahoo 2/3 falls match...do you have the exact date Segunda? I've never been a huge fan of Wahoo/Flair matches but I felt the same about Brody/Flair and all of a sudden they had a fucking classic 2/3 falls match...I wonder if the same can happen with Wahoo.

And Danielson changed the deadlyness of the elbows to kicking fucking heads in from time to time. If anything, the guy was able to introduce a bunch of finishers (chickenwing, triangle, triangle+elbows) so the crowd didn't get so used to his matches. I agree that by 2009 his matches were mostly the same, but considering his style and the same opponentes he had over and over again, the fact that he was able to still be fresh in 07' and 08' is remarcable. I still wish ROH would have let him be a heel again and have amazing performances like in the 2008 16 Carat Gold Tournament.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Yeah Danielson's puro esque protection of his finishers was always something I dug about the guy. TBH his 2009 may have just been him trying to reinvent himself and his style given how he'd run through everyone in the promotion. Then again he's slowly been delving into MMA and striking ability so maybe he just decided to mix it up and change the style to keep his act fresh. The guy is still one of my absolute favorites.


http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4UTBKX08

There's Flair vs McDaniel 2/3 falls, I think its 2nd September 1985 so '9/2/85' in USA.

I'll try and find my review of it in a second.



Spoiler: Long Ass Review



Why am I reviewing more Flair? Because he's awesome.

*Ric Flair vs Wahoo McDaniel, NWA Title, CWF Battle Of The Belts, 2/3 falls, 02/09/1985*

The ref in this (Bill Alfonso) looks suspiciously like Mickey Pearce off of Only Fools & Horses, I think I'm in love with the match already.

First fall here is really really terrific stuff. Probably one of my most favourite falls in any 2/3 falls match I've seen. Flair is ruling it as the biggest piece of trash to hit Florida and really comes across like some Actor who got nominated for 1 Oscar who suddenly thinks he's Robert Duval. He's pushing the ref and lecturing him on how to do his job, jostling with fans who think he sucks and there's this great spot where Flair's working over the left arm and yells at the camera man to get out of his face and he won't warn him again. Aside from Flair kicking ass as a character the in ring work is superb. They build McDaniel's chops to be lethal and the early opening has Flair constantly getting bested in the chop exchanges and regularly bailing to the floor. This all builds to McDaniel having an answer for everything Flair throws and a drop toe hold leads to him working over Flair's leg. Flair lets out an epic scream and despite the hold only beinng used for maybe 45 seconds Flair sells the leg better than most guys will sell 5 minute workovers these days. He limps after each step, takes his time in the corner to pull himself up, shakes the leg when he's working over McDaniel's arm and there's this amazing spot where he snapmares McDaniel, deliberately gets off the ground carefully and then misses an elbow drop instead of the patented kneedrop I was expecting.

Flair's desperation leads to him getting incredibly violent throughout the fall, first with some nasty boots to the stomach of McDaniel before throwing him to the floor and smashing his shoulder into the ring post. From here Flair's workover of the arm is sensational, he has some unique submissions we never see him bust out as well as some subtle touches such as an awesome quirk where he has McDaniel in a hammerlock on the mat and he starts working over the fingers of McDaniel at the same time. He's always looking to cheat as well at any opportunity and the crowd response is terrific. Flair makes a mistake though again in trying to go toe-to-toe with McDaniel and pays for it dearly as McDaniel locks in an insanely awesome headlock/sleeper submission and Flair is terrific at frantically grabbing at the ropes before slowly collapsing to the mat and being pinned. Incredible opening to the match which really put over McDaniel as a star and had a Lucha feel to the fall in terms of giving McDaniel great momentum into the second fall and making Flair's desperation to come back all the more greater.

Second fall honestly may be just as good if I'm honest. Flair's selling off the sleeper from the last fall is great early on with him constantly having to shake off the cobwebs and get focused. McDaniel even attempts the sleepr again and Flair flies to the ropes with everything he has, just immaculate in putting over the sleeper as a move he can't escape. The way he paces the fall and tries to move into a better position really reminded me of Fujiwara who is probably the best defensive wrestler of all time. Even the simplest of lock ups just came across as Flair trying to think two steps ahead of McDaniel and find some way of regaining the momentum. He truly came across as 'The Man' in this fall. He sells the leg extremely well in it affecting him to the point where he's not 100% but still comes across as something he's capable of fighting through to retain the belt.

He regains the advantage after McDaniel blasts him with a hellacious chop which sends Flair spiralling to the floor. Flair catches the leg and sets about tearing it out of its socket. He rams it into the post, stamps on it (and immediately sells the left leg on impact) and then there's a ridiculously awesome spot where Flair goes for an elbow drop, leans all the way back for maximum impact...but pauses because his leg is affected by it! Immense selling and detail from this genius. Flair's also quick to play the arrogant prick from the first fall by constantly arguing with the ref over a slow count. The finish is actually quite good. Flair has slowly become more aggressive because McDaniel has been able to survive the figure four including one sweet reversal by holding onto Flair's left leg and attempting to twist it to break the hold. Flair busts McDaniel open and then after a ref bump and a bridge backslide from Wahoo, Flair snaps and rams McDaniel's head off the ring post twice before bringing him into the ring and finishing him off with a very impactful knee drop. It was a typical 80s finish that would probably give fans heart attacks these days in how simple it was but I had no mither with it, everything built well to it and Flair was amazing throughout.

Must say as well the commentary between Solie & Graham is a joy to behold in putting over both men and the in ring action as well as the various strategies employed by both men. There's no WWE 2011 bullshit commentary with such wit as 'McDaniel's love for the NWA belt is only bettered by his love of fried foods'.

Third fall is surprising short but it still awesome. Both men sell the damage from going 45 minutes and McDaniel takes it upon himself to return the favour and have Flair bleed like a stuffed pig. They tease the sleeper again and Flair appears to have no answer for the hold and fights for all his life, McDaniel is pissed and wants to choke him out and his anger gets the best of him as Flair with all his might kicks off of the corner turnbuckle and collapses to the mat with McDaniel having a rear naked choke applied but unaware his shoulders have been counted to 3 on the mat!! A part of me would have preferred a more drawn out finishing fall but I still loved McDaniel seemingly being thrown off of his game by Flair's actions and inadvertantly costing himself the match along with putting over Flair as a man who values the NWA Championship above all. Perhaps a more drawn out 3rd fall would see this going the full 5* but as of now its a freaking awesome match but just not at the level of Flair vs Kerry or the other 80s gems from Flair's locker.

*****1/2-****3/4*


----------



## McQueen

I'd love what the WWE naysayers would think if they had Danielson take out Mark Henry with the boots of death. It would be so great since Henry looks like the fucking man as of late.

Or even better he could stomp some "entertaining" into Wade Boring's character.


----------



## Violent By Design

Segunda Caida said:


> May as well add mine, some matches could probably do with a rewatch though:
> 
> *WWF/E:*
> 
> Slaughter vs Sheik MSG, BootCamp Match 1984
> Hart vs Austin WM 13
> HBK vs Taker HIAC 1997
> 
> *NWA/Mid South:*
> 
> Flair vs Steamboat Chi Town 1989
> Flair vs Steamboat COTC 1989
> Flair vs Windham BOTB II
> Windham vs Murdoch UWF 11/7/1987
> Steamboat/Youngblood vs Kernodle/Slaughter, Final Conflict, Steel Cage 1983
> 
> *Memphis:*
> 
> Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee, Loser Leaves Town 30/12/85
> 
> *Lucha:*
> 
> El Satanico vs Gran Cochisse 1984
> Blue Panther vs Atlantis 1991
> Damiancito El Guerrero vs Cicloncito Ramirez 1997
> Bracito De Oro/Cicloncito Ramirez/Mascarita Magica vs Damiancito El Guerrero/El Fierito/Pierrothito, 1997
> 
> *Puro:*
> 
> NJPW Gauntlet 5/1/86
> Misawa vs Jumbo Rematch
> Misawa/Kobashi/Kawada vs Jumbo/Taue/Fuchi 20/4/91
> Misawa/Kobashi/Kawada vs Jumbo/Taue/Fuchi 22/5/92
> Misawa & Kobashi vs Taue & Kawada 3/12/1993
> Misawa vs Kawada 6/3/94
> Misawa & Kobashi vs Kawada & Taue 6/9/95
> Carl Greco vs Yuki Ishikawa BattlARTS 2008
> Volk Han vs Tamura RINGS 22/1/1997
> 
> *ROH:*
> 
> Danielson vs McGuinness Unified
> Danielson vs Morishima FWH Final Battle 2008
> 
> Got numerous matches on the brink of *****, Benoit vs Austin Edmonton 2001, Flair vs Wahoo McDaniel 2/3 Falls 85, Flair vs Windham Hawaii 10/12/85, Dandy vs Casas 1992, Funk vs Flair GAB 1989, Magnum TA vs Tully Blanchard 1985, Tully Blanchard vs Ron Garvin 5/3/86, Danielson vs Strong Vendetta, Punk vs Joe II, Cena vs HBK Mania 23, Danielson vs Nigel 6th Anniversary Show, Eddie vs Rey 23/6/2005, Kawada vs Hansen 2/28/93, Kobashi vs Misawa 20/1/1997, El Hijo Del Santo vs Blue Panther Monterrey 2000, Dory & Terry Funk vs Hansen & Gordy and quite a lot of others I've forgotten.
> 
> MS-1 vs Sangre Chicana 1983 may be the next one on my list, going to rewatch in the near future and am expecting to love it even more than last time.



Is that the NJPW vs UWF gauntlet? If so, do you think you can hook it up with a link?

Also, for that Volk Han vs Tamura match. Is that the match where they met in the finals of that world tournament?


----------



## WOOLCOCK

A part of me wanted Bryan to beat Miz to win his first World Title in the company as I figured they could pair those two off as constant rivals.

I really do want to see Henry tap out to Bryan (preferrably with one of them bleeding), Bryan or Sheamus need to be the one to take out Henry and gain his momentum instead of making Orton an even bigger star ahead of the rest.

Problem for Bryan is he has numerous people he can work good matches with up until Mania but bar Henry there isn't anyone on Smackdown who he could feud with and feed off of their heat and ability to get the crowd wrapped up in the feud. Christian is a possibility but I want him back as a face worker asap now that Rey is injured, we need good face workers dammit.




Violent By Design said:


> Is that the NJPW vs UWF gauntlet? If so, do you think you can hook it up with a link?
> 
> Also, for that Volk Han vs Tamura match. Is that the match where they met in the finals of that world tournament?


http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NZUKAGF5

That's the only link I can find atm sorry, its not the whole match but the final 4 participants. Seabs should be as good a person to ask for a link, or Kawada=god as he has quite the assortment of Puro footage.

Yeah I think the Volk Han vs Tamura match is a final or some tournament, its their second match. And its on youtube.


----------



## Clique

Segunda Caida said:


> *WWF/E:*
> 
> Slaughter vs Sheik MSG, BootCamp Match 1984
> Hart vs Austin WM 13
> HBK vs Taker HIAC 1997


What happened with Taker/Michaels WM26?


----------



## goodfellas89

good list but i would also add Eddie Guererro vs. JBL Judgement Day 2004 was a classic


----------



## Bubz

On the subject of Danielson, it would be so fucking epic if he defeated Henry with the elbows, but it seems as if Punk is using a version of those recently so I doubt they would let two guys use them. The stomps would be just as good though, or the triangle with the elbows. I'm also hoping they have him use 'I have 'till 5' again lol.


----------



## Yeah1993

Flair/Wahoo is probably my favourite non Steamboat-or-Windham Flair match. Maybe aside the Terry Funk I Quit.



McQueen said:


> I might give that honor to Danielson/McGuinness at the 6th (or is it 7th?) Anniversary show.


SOOOOOOOO agree with that (it's the 6th, btw). #3 best match of the 2000s for me, worldwide.


----------



## Cactus

goodfellas89 said:


> good list but i would also add Eddie Guererro vs. JBL Judgement Day 2004 was a classic


Yeah. I'm surprised that match hasn't been mentioned more. I haven't seen it in a while to have an opinion if it was a 5 star match or not, but I do remember it being epic. I dunno, it could of just been the sick bladejob that kept me interested.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

I don't have Guerrero/JBL JD 04 on my ***** list, but the match is legit fucking incredible and needs to be watched by more people. When I saw it live I hated it, just because of JBL I guess lol. Watched it again for the top 100 WWF/E poll I was part of... and I think it ended up in my top 20 lol.


----------



## dele

My ***** list for the last 5 years:

WWE - HBK/Taker 1 - Pretty self explanatory

WWE - CM Punk/Cena - Raw guttural emotion with damn good work to back it up

BJW - Ryuji Ito vs Jun Kasai (Razor board death match) - A match 11 years in the making delivers with bloody, brilliant fun

BJW - Yuko Miyamoto (c) Masashi Takeda (Construction site death match) - Two guys with nothing to lose (Miyamoto was coming under fire for not defending his title enough) and everything to gain. The two guys tore each other apart to make this an amazing match.

Takayama/Kobashi vs Misawa/Akiyama - Yes, Kobashi's return match gets the full ***** from me. Big whoop, wanna fight about it?


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Clique said:


> What happened with Taker/Michaels WM26?


Did I say that was 5 stars in the WWE DVD thread? My memory is shocking sadly but I've got it between ****3/4 and the full 5, actually forgot to include it in the matches at the end that are close to the full 5.

Agreed on Eddie vs JBL being incredible, its a top 15 personal favourite match of all time from me. Proof JBL was a great heel worker and played to his strengths in ring and Eddie turns in an all time great babyface performance.


----------



## McQueen

Is that Eddie/JBL match on one of his sets? Or was that just a random Smackdown match?

Oh SC I watched that Flair/Wahoo match, it was pretty great just for the chop exchanges alone. It was nice to see two guys put over each others offense so well without having to resort to doing crazy bullshit.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Judgement Day 2004 McQueen, probably on a set but I'd wager Seabs has it in his megapost.

Good to see you loved McDaniel vs Flair. 'Celebrity' Ric Flair who's too good for some back alley promotion is always a side of Flair I love and his character work was great throughout. I also love him always losing out early in the punch/chop exchanges against a power wrestler, the crowd losing their shit everytime he gets dumped on his ass never fails to amuse me.


----------



## Bubz

I need to rewatch Danielson/Nigel from the 6YA, I've only seen it once but I remember fucking loving it.

Their Rising Above 08 (?) match is also up there with it IMO, and I prefer both to the Driven match (which is also awesome). I might just download all of their matches and go on a Dragon/Nigel marathon, can't go wrong with any of it.

How was their last match together at the Final Countdown Tour? it's the only one I havn't seen.


----------



## Violent By Design

I've been trying to see Bryan vs Nigel @ Driven forever. When ever I try downloading the links in Seabs mega thread, it always fails for some reason D:.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=9YJNT88R

Bryan vs Nigel: Driven.


----------



## antoniomare007

bubz123 said:


> How was their last match together at the Final Countdown Tour? it's the only one I havn't seen.


It was good, the tried to do a "best of" their previous matches but the crowd was fucking dead so I couldn't get into it as much as I would have wanted. Besides I had stupid high expectations and that always sucks.


Just realized that the I had the Wahoo match in my Ric Flair Title Defenses collection but never watched it...Let's see if it leaves up to the hype.


----------



## Violent By Design

Segunda Caida said:


> http://www.megaupload.com/?d=9YJNT88R
> 
> Bryan vs Nigel: Driven.


for what ever reason, this link always gets stuck at a certain % for me ~_~.


----------



## seabs

*I'll reupload it onto fileserve later then.*


----------



## antoniomare007

so yeah, Segunda Caida was right...the 85' Battle of the Belts match is worthy of 5 snowflakes. 43 minutes of wrestling I still wanted them to keep going, lol.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Awesome that you loved it that much. Flair's character work was insane and him going for the elbow drop and leaning too far back causing him to have to break is up there with Rude being unable to do his signature pose in the Steamboat Ironman as some of my favourite unique and creative selling ever. Add in the great Flair formula of giving his opponent enough offence to look like a star and still making himself look like a champ on offence and you have recipe for greatness.

Oh and its Flair in 1985, arguably better than his much more heralded 1989 run.


----------



## Violent By Design

Seabs said:


> *I'll reupload it onto fileserve later then.*


that'd be sweet.


----------



## antoniomare007

Segunda Caida said:


> Awesome that you loved it that much. Flair's character work was insane and him going for the elbow drop and leaning too far back causing him to have to break is up there with Rude being unable to do his signature pose in the Steamboat Ironman as some of my favourite unique and creative selling ever. Add in the great Flair formula of giving his opponent enough offence to look like a star and still making himself look like a champ on offence and you have recipe for greatness.
> 
> Oh and its Flair in 1985, arguably better than his much more heralded 1989 run.


:lmao!! yeah, something like that. 


85' Flair vs 89' Flair would be a damn good thread.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Yeah I mean he has the 5 Steamboat matches as well as the 2 Funk matches and likely a lot more that I'm struggling to recall off the top of my head.

His 85 run has the Kerry Von Erich 10/12/85 match from Hawaii, the Dibiase match in Mid South from 6/11 which is a terrifc angle as much as it is a match, the 2 Wahoo McDaniel matches, the Mid South Terry Taylor title match, Butch Reed in Mid South 8/10 and the often overlooked Koko Ware match from Memphis and the Jake Roberts 24/11 Mid South match. Add in numerous other matches on the Mid South set and other territories he toured as Champ and a spell in Japan. 

If the Windham BOTB II and Worldwide 1/20/87 matches took place in 85 I'd call it his best year without a shadow of a doubt. The Steamboat matches understandably makes his 89 year look almost untouchable but I think he had a lot more depth in 1985 and had the Von Erich Hawaii match as well as 2/3 falls McDaniel match as MOTDCs.


----------



## antoniomare007

yeah at the end of the day it all comes down to the depth of 85' vs the quality of the Steamboat and Funk feud+matches (there's also a good Rick Steiner and Bobby Eaton match IIRC).

I also kinda consider the awesome Luger match at Starrcade 88' part of his 89' run...I mean it was December 26th


----------



## McQueen

Everyone knows the best wrestler from '85 wasn't Flair but rather...

The myth, the legend, Porkchop Cash


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Bow before thy greatness.


Flair is overrated apparently, matches were too repetitive. :side:



Jesus christ.


----------



## McQueen

OMG his shirt even says The Boss haha.


----------



## Yeah1993

I'd take Flar's 85 over his 89. He had Terry Funk and Ricky Stemaboat to work with 89, and even though I;d say he was better than the both of them in their matches (debatable), those two can pull a great match out of any idiot. Flair in 85 worked everywhere and wrestled lesser opponents like Terry Taylor, Kerry Von Erich, Brody, Dusty, Wahoo etc. He obviously had his great stuff with Reed/Koko/Snake/DiBiase/forgetting a thousand people, but those and the lesser opponent macthes weren't just "Great" they were flat out "Fantastic". He had a match with Terry Taylor in Mid-South that at that point was Taylor's career match (from what I've seen, anyway- which would only be topped by another Flair match...in 85), and wrestled Kerry the SAME FUCKING NIGHT i one Kerry's best. I mean there's 3 or 4 (some could argue 6 or 7) matches from 89 that were better than any 85 match he had, but that point still remains, and there's so much 85 Flair that's likely ben lost in time forever.

Flair's the fucking man.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Flair vs Murdoch broadway not making tape/being lost forever (forget which one it was) legitimately made me want to punch something.

Could have been the greatest match ever when you factor in how both men could build and pace a match, how both were terrific entertainers and characters in the ring as well as both men being offence and selling gems.


----------



## seabs

Violent By Design said:


> that'd be sweet.


*http://www.fileserve.com/file/WmSQANN*


----------



## Cactus

If I said I think Ric Flair is criminally overrated by you lot, would I get mauled to shit?

Oh well, I do think he is. I can just never get into his matches. Someone throw me in direction of a few matches that will help me change my mind or just try and explain his popularity with you guys.


----------



## smitlick

All this Flair talk + Me seeing the Ric Flair Definitive Collection WWE DVD for $5 means I'll have some Flair to watch now... God damn you guys.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

89 series vs Steamboat
1993 vs Vader
85 vs Wahoo McDaniel 2/3 falls 1985
vs Barry Windham 14/7/86- Battle of the Belts II, Worldwide 20/1/1987, Crockett Cup 11/4/87
vs Ricky Morton Steel Cage 1986
vs Terry Funk, GAB 1989, COTC I Quit 1989
vs Kerry Von Erich, Hawaii 10/12/85
vs Lawler, Memphis 14/8/82

I love the guy because he's a master structurer of his matches. He gives his opponents all the momentum in the early going and bumps like a madman to draw the crowd in, he then times his comeback and control segment to a tee, then sells his past workover and moves into a finishing stretch which has teases and near falls the crowd believes in without resorting into over kill. He can brawl, he can be a cocky heel or a beloved face, his execution is sterling, he bumps and sells with the best of them, his charisma makes even the most basic of spots like a headlock exchange that more dramatic and engaging because he flops and jerks his body to try and work within holds rather than rest and make it a rest spot. He gave near enough every guy he worked with in his prime the match of their careers and bar none has the greatest touring champion formula of any wrestler ever.

All those links should be in Seabs's megapost but in case there aren't I'll link to the ones I have:

vs Wahoo McDaniel, 2/3 falls: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4UTBKX08

vs Kerry Von Erich, Hawaii: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VODZ0GXE

vs Butch Reed, 10/8/85: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=GGY9NPIG

vs Ted Dibiase, 6/11/85: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=RNL73255

vs Ricky Morton, Cage Match, Great American Bash: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=N7X0NUPO

vs Barry Windham, BOTB II: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=YK03NZKY

vs Barry Windham, Worldwide, 20/1/87: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=09P1SG3K

vs Barry Windham, Crockett Cup, 11/4/87: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=M9XRD6TA

vs Ricky Steamboat, Chi Town Rumble: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=BTZKB8QC

vs Ricky Steamboat, COTC 2/3 falls: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=R97QG94B

vs Ricky Steamboat: Wrestlewar 1989: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1C5TVC0O

vs Steamboat, House Show, Landover 18/3/89: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=AH0XCHHV

vs Steamboat, House Show, Philly 18/3/89: http://www.fileserve.com/file/mAVVFhD

vs Terry Funk, Great American Bash 1989: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=FIOFB114

vs Terry Funk, COTC I Quit Match: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=UQW1HKI8


Can't do anymore than that, also would have been nice of you to say what specifically you find about him overrated. Also who do you consider better?


----------



## Tanner1495

SO.MUCH.Flair I haven't seen yet! It will be a great weekend


----------



## Cactus

Segunda Caida said:


> 89 series vs Steamboat
> 1993 vs Vader
> 85 vs Wahoo McDaniel 2/3 falls 1985
> vs Barry Windham 14/7/86- Battle of the Belts II, Worldwide 20/1/1987, Crockett Cup 11/4/87
> vs Ricky Morton Steel Cage 1986
> vs Terry Funk, GAB 1989, COTC I Quit 1989
> vs Kerry Von Erich, Hawaii 10/12/85
> vs Lawler, Memphis 14/8/82
> 
> I love the guy because he's a master structurer of his matches. He gives his opponents all the momentum in the early going and bumps like a madman to draw the crowd in, he then times his comeback and control segment to a tee, then sells his past workover and moves into a finishing stretch which has teases and near falls the crowd believes in without resorting into over kill. He can brawl, he can be a cocky heel or a beloved face, his execution is sterling, he bumps and sells with the best of them, his charisma makes even the most basic of spots like a headlock exchange that more dramatic and engaging because he flops and jerks his body to try and work within holds rather than rest and make it a rest spot. He gave near enough every guy he worked with in his prime the match of their careers and bar none has the greatest touring champion formula of any wrestler ever.
> 
> All those links should be in Seabs's megapost but in case there aren't I'll link to the ones I have:
> 
> vs Wahoo McDaniel, 2/3 falls: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4UTBKX08
> 
> vs Kerry Von Erich, Hawaii: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VODZ0GXE
> 
> vs Butch Reed, 10/8/85: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=GGY9NPIG
> 
> vs Ted Dibiase, 6/11/85: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=RNL73255
> 
> vs Ricky Morton, Cage Match, Great American Bash: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=N7X0NUPO
> 
> vs Barry Windham, BOTB II: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=YK03NZKY
> 
> vs Barry Windham, Worldwide, 20/1/87: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=09P1SG3K
> 
> vs Barry Windham, Crockett Cup, 11/4/87: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=M9XRD6TA
> 
> vs Ricky Steamboat, Chi Town Rumble: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=BTZKB8QC
> 
> vs Ricky Steamboat, COTC 2/3 falls: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=R97QG94B
> 
> vs Ricky Steamboat: Wrestlewar 1989: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1C5TVC0O
> 
> vs Steamboat, House Show, Landover 18/3/89: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=AH0XCHHV
> 
> vs Steamboat, House Show, Philly 18/3/89: http://www.fileserve.com/file/mAVVFhD
> 
> vs Terry Funk, Great American Bash 1989: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=FIOFB114
> 
> vs Terry Funk, COTC I Quit Match: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=UQW1HKI8
> 
> 
> Can't do anymore than that, also would have been nice of you to say what specifically you find about him overrated. Also who do you consider better?


Thanks for the list. I don't know why I don't like him. I just couldn't get into his stuff when I was a kid and I guess it's carried on into adulthood. I always watched his match at Chi-Town Rumble and though it was very overrated. Better than Flair? Michaels, Bret Hart, Kobash, Terry Funk, Jerry Lawler....


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Funk and Lawler deserve to be put on his pedestal IMO, all 3 are excellent though and give enough great performances as well as great matches that its incredibly hard to place one over the over for a consistent period of time.

He smokes Bret IMO in every in ring department bar maybe execution, and even then I don't recall Flair ever doing anything notably sluggish in execution. He's a far better storyteller imo, or maybe his stories I just found more engaging than Bret's, better seller and bumper, better control segment in mixing good limb work with character and charisma and a better catalogue of matches.

Michaels is a realy hit or miss for me at times. Adore his tag work and would put him comfortably as a top 5 tag team worker of all time, adore his bumping as a heel in the mid 90s even if it got too over the top at times and find him one of the most consistently entertaining people to watch in a ring ever, can certainly get on board him being the best performer ever but wouldn't put him above a good 15-20 guys as a wrestler. A lot of his pimped matches since 2002 have gone down on a rewatch, Summerslam 2002, HIAC vs HHH, vs Angle Wrestlemania 21 and Vengeance 2005. Still love his 2 matches vs Cena in 2007 and the Survivor Seris 2007 match with Orton as well as the Wrestlemania 26 match with Taker even if I do think Taker was largely responsible for what I loved about the match. HIAC 1997 is still one of my favourite matches of all time but post 2002 I think he unfortunately strayed so far into being the best performer that he ignored a lot of things like long term selling which often kills matches for me, especially if your limb has been worked on as a major story in the match. He's still very good-excellent but some of his better work doesn't hold up as much since 2008/09 so I wouldn't call him anywhere near as good as Flair nowadays.

Kobashi in the mid 90s and early 00s was excellent but a lot of his work post 2002 went into overkill territory with NOAH moving away from Kings Road and starting this terrible habit of most puro matches breaking down into pointless strike exchanges. Kobashi still worked these strike exchanges better than most guys tbf but his 90s work is so far ahead of his later work to me and he just isn't as consistently entertaining as Flair and lacks the depth of quality matches that Flair has, although I concede being in Japan with a restricted main event roster he wasn't going to be facing the amount of guys Flair could face in his time as the touring Champion.


----------



## Henry Hill

Cactus said:


> If I said I think Ric Flair is criminally overrated by you lot, would I get mauled to shit?
> 
> Oh well, I do think he is. I can just never get into his matches. Someone throw me in direction of a few matches that will help me change my mind or just try and explain his popularity with you guys.


I think it depends on your preference of wrestling and this is something that Bret Hart failed to grasp when criticising Flair in that some people just watch wrestling for the sake of being entertained. In that regards I think Flair is head and shoulders above everyone - I was rewatching a 6 man tag with Evolution against Jericho, Edge and Benoit the other day and the guy way past his prime was still as entertaining as the other five men put together. 

I don't understand how Flair can be called one of the all time great workers though.


----------



## Bubz

My god, it's a long time since I watched some of those Flair matches, especially the Steamboat ones. I'll be watching them this week aswell then I guess. Since i'm lazy and can't be bothered to read through this thread again, can you remind me which Flair/Steamboat match is considered the best one? I can't remember which match was which at all.

Talking of stuff I havn't watched in years, the Danielson talk a few pages back got me watching some stuff again. Just watched his GBH V match with KENTA and his match with Nigel from Unified.

I see a very strong argument for Dragon/Nigel at Unified being the best ROH match ever, just insane drama in the last 5 minutes or so. That ring post spot still makes me cringe, crazy bastard! Nigel used to be my favorite wrestler in the world, such a shame as I thought he would definitely make it in the WWE.

Dragon/KENTA was hella better than I rememberd it. Awesome match, although I still prefer their Driven match. This one has an amazing story though, one that I think Nigel and KENTA told just as well however in their 7YA match which is very underrated.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

bubz123 said:


> My god, it's a long time since I watched some of those Flair matches, especially the Steamboat ones. I'll be watching them this week aswell then I guess. Since i'm lazy and can't be bothered to read through this thread again,* can you remind me which Flair/Steamboat match is considered the best one?* I can't remember which match was which at all.


The answer to this will change depending on who answers lol . For example, I think their Clash 2/3 falls match is their best, but other people prefer their Chi-Town match, or WrestleWar match, or even one of the 2 house show matches from the time as well lol.

But yeah, Clash is the best .


----------



## Bubz

Lol, i'll definitely just rewatch all of them.


----------



## antoniomare007

Segunda Caida said:


> 89 series vs Steamboat
> 1993 vs Vader
> 85 vs Wahoo McDaniel 2/3 falls 1985
> vs Barry Windham 14/7/86- Battle of the Belts II, Worldwide 20/1/1987, Crockett Cup 11/4/87
> vs Ricky Morton Steel Cage 1986
> vs Terry Funk, GAB 1989, COTC I Quit 1989
> vs Kerry Von Erich, Hawaii 10/12/85
> vs Lawler, Memphis 14/8/82
> 
> I love the guy because he's a master structurer of his matches. He gives his opponents all the momentum in the early going and bumps like a madman to draw the crowd in, he then times his comeback and control segment to a tee, then sells his past workover and moves into a finishing stretch which has teases and near falls the crowd believes in without resorting into over kill. He can brawl, he can be a cocky heel or a beloved face, his execution is sterling, he bumps and sells with the best of them, his charisma makes even the most basic of spots like a headlock exchange that more dramatic and engaging because he flops and jerks his body to try and work within holds rather than rest and make it a rest spot. He gave near enough every guy he worked with in his prime the match of their careers and bar none has the greatest touring champion formula of any wrestler ever.
> 
> All those links should be in Seabs's megapost but in case there aren't I'll link to the ones I have:
> 
> vs Wahoo McDaniel, 2/3 falls: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4UTBKX08
> 
> vs Kerry Von Erich, Hawaii: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VODZ0GXE
> 
> vs Butch Reed, 10/8/85: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=GGY9NPIG
> 
> vs Ted Dibiase, 6/11/85: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=RNL73255
> 
> vs Ricky Morton, Cage Match, Great American Bash: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=N7X0NUPO
> 
> vs Barry Windham, BOTB II: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=YK03NZKY
> 
> vs Barry Windham, Worldwide, 20/1/87: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=09P1SG3K
> 
> vs Barry Windham, Crockett Cup, 11/4/87: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=M9XRD6TA
> 
> vs Ricky Steamboat, Chi Town Rumble: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=BTZKB8QC
> 
> vs Ricky Steamboat, COTC 2/3 falls: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=R97QG94B
> 
> vs Ricky Steamboat: Wrestlewar 1989: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1C5TVC0O
> 
> vs Steamboat, House Show, Landover 18/3/89: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=AH0XCHHV
> 
> vs Steamboat, House Show, Philly 18/3/89: http://www.fileserve.com/file/mAVVFhD
> 
> vs Terry Funk, Great American Bash 1989: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=FIOFB114
> 
> vs Terry Funk, COTC I Quit Match: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=UQW1HKI8












I would also add the 83' match against Jumbo and the Starrcade 88' Luger match. 

Have you seen his matches against Bockwinkel?? I've only been able to find a 10 minute clip from youtube but I've heard great thing about their encounters (no surprise there, it's freacking 'Bock and Flair).

Yesterday I was making a list of guys who had GREAT matches with Naitch and just of the top of my head was able to list 40...that's insane, lol.


----------



## Tanner1495

antoniomare007 said:


> I would also add the 83' match against Jumbo and the Starrcade 88' Luger match.
> 
> Have you seen his matches against Bockwinkel?? I've only been able to find a 10 minute clip from youtube but I've heard great thing about their encounters (no surprise there, it's freacking 'Bock and Flair).
> 
> Yesterday I was making a list of guys how had GREAT matches with Naitch and just of the top of my head was able to list 40...that's insane, lol.



I would love too see that list, just so I can gave some Flair matches too watch.


----------



## Yeah1993

Misawa & Kawada are the only guys I'd put above Flair right now, maybe not even. You always think you've pretty much seen the best of Flair and five more great matches pop up out of nowhere. You have NEVER seen the best of Flair.


----------



## antoniomare007

It's way too difficult for me to rank puro guys and NA guys. My puro Top 3 is Misawa, Jumbo, Kawada and the NA top 3 is Flair, Funk and Benoit.

No idea how to put one over the other, it's like Sophie's Choice











Tanner1495 said:


> I would love too see that list, just so I can gave some Flair matches too watch.


Segunda already did a great shortlist of Flair matches with links. I'm way too lazy to search for the dates so I don't know if posting the list would be any good  . 



Spoiler



Steamboat
Dusty
Harley
Jack Brisco
Terry Funk
Jerry Lawler
Luger
Sting
Vader
Orton
Michaels
Ronnie Garvin
Ricky Morton
Randy Savage
HHH
Taker
Magnum T.A
Ted DiBiase
Jake The Snake
Wahoo
Carlos Colon
Butch Reed
Kerry Von Erich
Kevin Von Erich
David Von Erich
Chris Adams
Eddie Guerrero
Hawk
Steiner
Jumbo
Brody
Foley
Koloff
Koko Ware
Windham
Terry Taylor
Curt Hennig
Mutoh
Bret
Eaton


----------



## topper1

Flair might make my top 50.

Yes I know that sounds crazy to most but I'm not much of a Flair fan and the Flair flop is one of the dumbest thing's in wrestling ever.


----------



## Tanner1495

antoniomare007 said:


> It's way too difficult for me to rank puro guys and NA guys. My puro Top 3 is Misawa, Jumbo, Kawada and the NA top 3 is Flair, Funk and Benoit.
> 
> No idea how to put one over the other, it's like Sophie's Choice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Segunda already did a great shortlist of Flair matches with links. I'm way too lazy to search for the dates so I don't know if posting the list would be any good  .
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Steamboat
> Dusty
> Harley
> Jack Brisco
> Terry Funk
> Jerry Lawler
> Luger
> Sting
> Vader
> Orton
> Michaels
> Ronnie Garvin
> Ricky Morton
> Randy Savage
> HHH
> Taker
> Magnum T.A
> Ted DiBiase
> Jake The Snake
> Wahoo
> Carlos Colon
> Butch Reed
> Kerry Von Erich
> Kevin Von Erich
> David Von Erich
> Chris Adams
> Eddie Guerrero
> Hawk
> Steiner
> Jumbo
> Brody
> Foley
> Koloff
> Koko Ware
> Windham
> Terry Taylor
> Curt Hennig
> Mutoh
> Bret
> Eaton



Thanks for the list of oppenents, never even knew he had a match with Brody . And I agree, ranking puro guys to NA guys is pretty hard. My top three puro would be Kobashi,Misawa and Kawada with my top three NA guys as Flair, Benoit and pretty much a tie between HBK and Savage.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Henry Hill said:


> I don't understand how Flair can be called one of the all time great workers though.


Terrific structurer of a match: Check
Versatile in numerous forms of wrestling: Check
Terrific heel worker and terrific face worker who could work a crowd like no other: Check
Brilliant bumper and seller: Check
Got numerous good matches out of mediocre talent, great matches out of very good workers and all time classics with the sensational workers: Check
Consistently entertaining in 40 minute plus matches, and able to display brilliant selling and also adding unique selling touches that most workers wouldn't think of? Check
Guy with the greatest catalogue of matches ever bar Misawa? Check
Terrific storyteller who perfected the touring heel champ formula in how to make hometown territory stars look like credible NWA champions? Check


Honestly without trying to sound like some bitter Flair mark, simply saying 'he isn't that good' without making the time and effort to explain what about him you don't care for, or what you feel beter workers did that Flair didn't comes off poorly on your part. I've got no problem with anyone not caring for the guy or thinking he's overrated so long as they can at least put forward a well argued point and explain their reasoning: the same I do when I say I think Kurt Angle bar maybe 10-15 matches in his career has been a really poor professional wrestling worker.

*Antoniomare007*: sensational list there buddy. I'm shattered for tonight but will make some attempt tomorrow to attempt to add to that list if you haven't covered everything already.

Misawa, Kawada, Lawler, Funk & Tenryu would be workers I'd put on Flair's level, Steamboat could be there as well along with Rey on any given day.



EDIT: best Steamboat vs Flair match for me is COTC, followed by Chi Town, then the 2 House Show matches on the same day and finally Wrestlewar. Although calling one of their matches 'the weakest' is still not taking away from a match which is still a classic/sensational match.


----------



## Violent By Design

If you like 80s wrestling, there is no reason why you would not love Ric Flair. He is brilliant. In terms of collections of excellent matches, no one is on his level and that includes Misawa. Ric Flair has wrestled the whos who of Pro Wrestling, and more than not has had a memorable moment wrestling with that said individual. It's really a shame that a lot of his work has been lost, because there was surely a lot of great matches that we'll never get to see.

The only person that I have around Flair is HBK. And even then, that's just because HBK's big matches are ridiculously epic. That's HBK's talent, he can make a match that isn't all that great, seem a lot more important than it is. That's why he's so good, but 2000's Michaels couldn't really wrestle small time matches and what not. But during the 90s, Michaels was probably the best wrestler I've ever seen. 

If I had to make a top 3 in NA, it would likely be

1) Michaels
2) Flair (Flair could be #1, I've been pretty low on Michaels recently)
3) Funk (who recently bumped Lawler out of the 3 spot for me)


For Japan, it would likely go

1) Kawada
2) Kobashi
3) Taue

And yeah, I know Taue might catch a lot of people off guard. He was a bum during the 80s, but in the 90s that guy was excellent. Had more character than most guys in All Japan. People forget that this guy was one half of the arguably the greatest tag team of all time.


----------



## LowKi

Here is my list:

Flair vs Steamboat, CotC VI
Flair vs Funk, CotC IX
Jumbo vs Tenryu, 89
Hansen vs Kobashi, 93
Holy Demon Army vs Kobashi/Misawa, 93 and 95
Bret vs Owen, SummerSlam, 94
Sasuke vs Benoit, 94
Kawada vs Misawa, 94
Bret vs Austin, WM 13
5 on 5, Kaientaï DX vs M-Pro Sekigun, 96 (for me it's the best junior match EVER)
Kawada vs Misawa, 97 (the Ganso Bomb one)
Kawada vs Kobashi, 98 (for the Triple Crown) 
Angle vs Benoit, RR 2003
Kobashi vs Misawa, 2003
Tenzan vs Akiyama, G1 Finals 2003
Kawada vs Hashimoto, 2004
Kobashi vs Akiyama, 2004
Kobashi/Shiozaki vs Sasaki/Nakajima, 2005
Joe vs Kobashi, 2005
Joe vs Daniels vs AJ, 2005
Flair vs HBK, WM 24
Taker vs HBK, WM 26


----------



## rude awakening

Sorry to deviate, but how many matches did Funk and Lawler have in Memphis, I love the match I saw in 31/3/81, plus the empty arena match. Also which are their best matches together? Ive become an even bigger fan of Funk now, hes so versatile, there was a match he had with Flair in 81 (which I didnt know existed) that is completely dissimilar to their epic brawls in 89.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I only know of the 2 matches in 81, Empty Arena and the 21/3 NO DQ match. Lawler does have a good match vs Dory though in between the 2 Terry matches. There could be more between them but those are the only 2 I instantly recall. They're supposed to be wrestling at some indy show on October 1st though in a NO DQ match, I think Finlay vs Eddie Edwards is also on the card.

If you haven't seen it I recommend Terry & Dory vs Hansen & Gordy, AJPW 31/8/1983, Terry's 1st retirement tag. He and Hansen are incredible in the match.

I'll be watching the Empty Arena match soon, if it tops the NO DQ match then it will be incredible because I have that at *****3/4*


----------



## rude awakening

Cool thanks, I remember hearing a interview from Jim Cornette where he said that the no dq match with Funk and Lawler was his favorite match. Theres nothing flashy but their timing, intensity and realism elevate that match to greatness


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Lawler's punches and Funk's drunken selling and wayward punches were made for each other. Funk is a loony, Lawler is an incredible seller and both men convey hate for one another without resorting to OMG spots that whilst pleasing on the eye are out of place in the context of the match. Pretty much the match I'd go to bat for as Funk being a legit GOAT and would probably use the 6/6/83 and 30/12/85 Loser Leaves Town matches with Dundee for Lawler.

Jimmy Hart was amazing in that match as well, running under the ring to escape Lawler, bouncing better than a TNA cheque when Funk was in killer mode and breaking up a pinfall with a cane. His 81 match vs Lawler is amazing as well, exactly what the Cole match at Mania should have been.


----------



## rude awakening

Lawler's match with Bigelow in 28/7/86 is a really great match, his whole way of wrestling a big man like Bam Bam was done realistically, without having to dive of the top rope, he simply just punches him down but the crowd just eats it up.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Yeah Lawler's such a smart and intelligent worker and the way he bumps and sells for his opponents coupled with being God of Memphis always makes for entertaining matches with ridiculous crowds. He's had some gems in WWF/E as well in putting over his opponents as well as he can in under 10 minutes.


----------



## rude awakening

Did you like his Cage match with Savage?


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Not seen it yet, been doing a lot of Lawler reviews in the WWE DVD thread and stuck more to reviewing his best feuds/series of matches. Done Mantell and Dundee and about to finish off the Funk series by reviewing the Empty Arena match. His Savage series will be the next lot I'll watch before I get into the Bockwinkel series from 1982.

Heard great things about their 6/3/85 Loser Leaves Town match though, think it placed very high on the Memphis ballot from DVDVR.


----------



## antoniomare007

I consider the Empty Arena match more of a segment than an actual wrestling match...probably the best segment ever though. Lance Russell and Terry Funk are at their best.

I know Funk cuts a promo after the EAM and talks about a Cage match with Lawler but I don't think anyone has ever seen any footage of it. 

The Savage/Lawler feud is great and has 2 great matches (the Cage and LLT) but I'm a sucker for the Austin Idol Hair vs Hair match, I'd rate it higher than the Savage matches.


PS: Terry vs Jumbo 76' and the 77' RWTL final (Funks vs Sheik/Abby) are two of my favorite Funker matches ever.


----------



## Violent By Design

I think the 'Loser Leaves Town' match between Savage and Lawler isn't that good. But I really like their cage match. The combo unleashed at the end by Lawler is hellacious . 

I actually prefer the Empty Arena Match to the no DQ match in regards to Funk vs Lawler. Funk is so fucking funny in the Empty Arena. It's not even the actual wrestling that I like about it, just Funk's belly aching.


----------



## Bubz

I've seen a fair share of Flair stuff, but probably need to rewatch most of the matches.

I havn't seen hardly any old Funk stuff though, gonna have to get on it. Why did he turn to doing pretty much all hardcore stuff?


----------



## Yeah1993

Probably because he's old and being a grappler at that age only works if you were born in Mexico.  It's not as if he doesn;t have at least some lunacy early, anyway. I'm struggling to think of a Terry Funk match where he wasn't losing his mind in the middle of it somewhere.


----------



## McQueen

Funk evolved and wanted to do something different. Him and Dusty pretty much invented all the Hardcore gimmick matches anyways.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Segunda Caida said:


> May as well add mine, some matches could probably do with a rewatch though:
> 
> *NWA/Mid South:*
> 
> Flair vs Steamboat Chi Town 1989
> Flair vs Steamboat COTC 1989
> Flair vs Windham BOTB II
> Windham vs Murdoch UWF 11/7/1987
> Steamboat/Youngblood vs Kernodle/Slaughter, Final Conflict, Steel Cage 1983


Updating this with the following match:

Ric Flair vs Barry Windham, NWA Worldwide, 20/01/1987



Spoiler: Flair vs Windham



About time I checked in on Flair:~

*Ric Flair vs Barry Windham, Worldwide, 20/01/1987*

Can these two have a bad match? Lovely continuation from the BOTB II match in 86 where Windham was portrayed as this young starlet who was in better shape than Flair but who lacked the knowledge and experience of the Champ which cost him at key moments in the match. Here right from the off they work to portray Windham again as a man who is an equal of Flair but continue to play up Flair's craftiness and experience as well as his intestinal fortitude as being his way of surviving and keeping control against this young and hungry star in Windham.

We get the typical babyface shine period to start off with. Windham overpowers and outworks Flair in the basic chain wrestling and lock ups and Flair having to try and intimidate Windham with forceful slaps to the chest when breaking a lock up because he's got no answer for Windham was a nice touch early. Windham explodes however with a great run of offence including a beauty of a dropkick which Flair bumps oh so emphatically for by flopping backwards onto his neck before running into the crowd for a breather. He's been outworked, overpowered and simply out thought in the early going and his chops have had little effect against Windham's punches. Dusty on commentary really adds to the psychology of the mat and is terrific in trying to subtley put over Flair's ability to regain control in an instant whilst Windham dominates so in the back of your mind you're continually waiting for Flair to somehow end Windham's dominance and thus the resulting payoff comes off more satisfactory with better build and greater meaning.

Here the transition spot plays off of the BOTB II match and the running theme so far here: Windham has a little conversation with Tommy Cooper over his officiating before Flair sidesteps him coming off of the ropes and throws him to the outside. Real nice spot to get over Flair's resilience in eating all of this punishment from Windham off and continuing the parallel of experience vs athleticism and power being a running trait in these matches in how one guy will dominate the other. Flair is a total killer on the floor here and his violent streak and fierce chops come off terrificly as a Champion utilising ever bit of offence he can to ground and weaken this primed conditioned athlete and Windham's bumping and selling of the arm here is as brilliant as you could come to expect from him and he does a great little selling of a closed fist punch that has you believing Flair broke his nose. Flair works amazingly well again as 'The Man' including busting out more of his chain wrestling counters to a more beaten down Windham when earlier it was Windham who was outworking Flair as well as his bending of the rules and I dug the spot where Cooper went to warn Barry about using a closed fist which allowed Flair to yank the hair and keep control of an armbar and then immediately after sneaks in a closed fist of his own. Just basic but smart continuation of Flair being a cut above Windham in the intelligence and manouevreing of his spots so Cooper can't spot his cheating. Flair does his usual feet on the ropes schtick during pins and submissions for extra leverage and again does it vis Cooper's blindspot so he's oblivious to Flair's shenanigans and the crowd getting pissed at this lack of sportsmanship on Flair's part is amazing. The handshake at the start of the match established Flair as a man who on some level respected Windham's ability and takes pride in being the NWA Champion..but when the bell rings he's a killer who will do anything to retain that title even if it means besmirching the rules he claims to uphold.

Just want to say the sequence where Windham rocks Flair with a one handed punch that Flair bumps for amazingly as a game changer, leading into Windham rifling umpteen punches in the corner before selling the arm and then giving Flair enough time to knee him in the gut and keep control was another sequence I felt kept the ongoing story of experience and resilience vs young athlete ticking nicely and Dusty warning Barry in advance of what would happen really added to the spot.

Another thing I love in their matches is how they progressively begin to sell the match by bumping a lot more for every little bit of offence, particularly Windham essentially collapsing from a Flair chop when earlier it had litte effect. Windham is just such a natural babyface and Flair is a true heel worker so you always get a true ying and yang effect when they wrestle, Windham taking a bonkers over the top rope bump to the concrete and selling a possible concussion before managing with all his might to reverse an into the ring suplex into a desperation right hand really did come off as everything he had in the locker and both men barely moving post impact really was a nice touch. I'm always a sucker for matches continuing a story arc and seeing 2 prime athletes struggling for breath and barely able to withstand every move really adds to the war they've been in compared to 20 mins earlier when they looked in sterling condition, really adds to the nearfalls when you have the impression neither man has much left in his arsenal.

Great sequence now where Flair manages to hit a desperation backdrop and immediately pounces on the figure four complete with utlising the ropes for leverage. Windham sells the figure four terrificly post release by struggling to get to his feet and Flair's confident and cocky facial expressions as he continues to wear Windham down with leg work before being caught in a surprise roll up is great character work from Flair whilst putting over his arrogance as being something Windham can exploit. Barry attempting a sunset flip that won him tag team gold was also a brilliant near fall and a glorious spot to put over Barry's intelligence and growing potential as someone who was now beginning to be able to hang with Flair mentally as well as physically. Barry though whiffing an attempted elbow drop and the announcers putting over it as another mistake is a great tease to the audience in making you believe he can outsmart Flair before immediately throwing doubt again when he makes yet another mistake. Great storytelling.

DAMN! Flair now makes a rare and crucial mistake in trying to put this kid away and whiffs a kneedrop and sells it like death, got to love him bumping to the floor and then stretching his injured leg straight after. Windham locking in the figure four was a great payoff spot to Flair's attempt where he capitalised on an error and my god does Flair sell the shit out of it, not just with his screams and determination to fight through the pain but hitting a desperation atomic drop immediately afterwards and the screaming in agony because of the pain. The finishing stretch is glorious with both men selling the wear and tear of this struggle magnificently, particularly the way Barry takes an irish whip about as sluggishly as you would expect before exploding with a desperation lariat. Flair going into survival mode and trying to run the clock down by stalling and throwing Barry to the floor really completes the story that Windham is the only one who looks to be able to win this and him essentially weakening Flair with every blow and looking the decisive winner before the time limit expires was a perfect finish in Windham essentially evolving from the BOTB II match and 'beating' Flair without actually winning the title. Flair survives yet again but is still not able to hold a pin/submission over Barry which makes a rematch all the more possible. Terrific selling, pacing and a clear story continued from their BOTB II match a year earlier as well as the perfect face vs heel dynamic. BOTB II is just ever so slightly ahead of this IMO, but not by much.

*******


----------



## Martins

I come to this thread quite often, but I actually never posted my list, I'll be sure to do it after I watch some more matches I got left, but right now I just wanted to ask one question: am I the only one who sees nothing special about Angle/Benoit at the Rumble?


----------



## Yeah1993

It's a really good match, maybe...***1/2? to me, but I don't think it's anything particularly fantastic.


----------



## antoniomare007

For a moment there I thought Yeah was talking about the Flair/Windham match, was close to do this








...like the time he said he was going to watch more Hashimoto and didn't do it.

I love Benoit vs Angle, it's an awesome "who's the best?" sprint, but I totally understand why others might not like it as much as I do.

Segunda, what are your thoughts on Flair vs Windham - Crockett Cup 97'? To me, it's as good or even better than their previous encounters.


----------



## Yeah1993

I've watched more Hash since then.  I'll promise I'll write a billion words on the Tenryu match from 93 once I get around to it on the MOTHERFUCKING YEARBOOK, MOTHERFUCKER and post it here.

That GIF is supreme.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Suzuki vs. Sawama from AJPW on 8/29/10


----------



## seabs

*Watched the Windham/Flair series recently and the Worldwide and BOTB matches are both incredible, just shy of ***** for me. Crocket Cup match was still great but a clear step down from the other 2 matches.*


----------



## Henry Hill

Segunda Caida said:


> Terrific structurer of a match: Check
> Versatile in numerous forms of wrestling: Check
> Terrific heel worker and terrific face worker who could work a crowd like no other: Check
> Brilliant bumper and seller: Check
> Got numerous good matches out of mediocre talent, great matches out of very good workers and all time classics with the sensational workers: Check
> Consistently entertaining in 40 minute plus matches, and able to display brilliant selling and also adding unique selling touches that most workers wouldn't think of? Check
> Guy with the greatest catalogue of matches ever bar Misawa? Check
> Terrific storyteller who perfected the touring heel champ formula in how to make hometown territory stars look like credible NWA champions? Check


Fine. I'll start by saying that I think Flair is the most entertaining wrestler I've ever watched and undoubtedly the best mic worker I've ever seen. That alone for me makes him one of the greats. His comedy in various segments has actually brought tears to my ears.

I find the majority of his so called classic matches plodding and dull however. The HBK/Bret IronMan is a million times better worked and far more engaging than the static Flair/Steamboat clashes. He might bring emotion to his work but his actual selling and bump taking is beyond ridiculous and never fails to take me out the match. Imagine a horror film where the villain is sidetracked for a moment and proceeds to fall down the stairs in the most elaborate manner possible. Is it funny? Definitely but it's also definitely not artistic and only makes the whole charade look fake. I don't need to elaborate any further than that because I think Flair is basically a technically gifted version of Santino Marella. Regardless however both make wrestling look phoney.


----------



## McQueen

Did you just say the dull as fuck Ironman is better than the Flair/Steamboat matches? No, just no.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I can't really see how you can make that claim about Flair.....and not HBK when I've seen you pimp his work a lot in the past. Michaels was essentially the carbon coby of Flair in elaborate and goofy bumping in the 90s as a heel, albeit more athletic and utilising more high risk offence.

I can't fathom how a Flair match can be dull, especially when you say he's one of the most entertaining people for you to watch. He's always doing something in a match to make a basic hold more entertaining, his bumping and selling alone should be enough to make a match more than dull, and well 'dull' is something I could understand someone using to describe Bret given how most of his matches were just holds and ring work with little character or crowd participation. Compare Bret working holds to someone like Arn Anderson: 1 guy is just putting on a nice armbar, the other is doing little things like working the fingers in the armbar, pulling a glorious facial expression that conveys arrogance, taunting his opponent or posing to the crowd and getting a reaction. I'll leave it up to you to deduce who's the guy merely putting on a hold and who's the one trying to make that hold more dramatic and bigger in the context of the match.

Hart/HBK being better worked than Flair/Steamboat frankly is just astonishing to me, but your opinion none the less. Hell the fact both Bret and Shawn were unco-operative in their selling and blowing off the other guy's offence should be enough evidence to demonstrate why its not on Flair/Steamboat's level. Add in the poor pacing of the match and the structuring as well as poor story that wasn't executed at all well because both guys hated the other and had no intention of making the other look good and you have a pretty crap match. Flair vs Steamboat was a perfect face vs heel dynamic, with both men going beyond ring work to demonstrate their characters with Flair being conceited and arrogant and Steamboat bumping and selling like a hard working man determined to prove he was on the level of World Champion Flair. Add in the flawless execution, bumping, selling, pacing and crowd control as well as them utllising their charisma to make 60 minute matches fly by and not drag (something HBK vs Hart never was able to do) and you have a terrific chemistry which produced sensational matches that could appeal to fans who prefer selling, to fans who prefer a working story that was elaborated and developed throughout the match, a clear face vs heel dynamic with a perfect mix of working holds and heel schtick to pop the crowd at key moments.

Flair's bumping for me is what makes his matches so good. You can say they're goofy and nonsensical but when you take into account his whole act was to put over his opponent as a world beater whilst maintaining his credibility as champion him bumping like a madman and doing exaggerated KO bumps always popped the crowd into believing their hometown wrestler was moments away from beating the champion. I'd sooner have someone like Flair try to bump emphatically in these types of matches to get the crowd interested than a guy just doing run of the mill bumping that can't generate the reaction. Hell Michaels and Steamboat and Ricky Morton all made their legacies as all time sensational FIPs and sellers by bumping emphatically and dramatically off of their opponent's offence to get the crowd behind them. Flair was essentially a heel version of them by bumping above and beyond other heels becauase it got the crowd off of their feet when he'd collapse from his opponent's offence and got them into the match. Sure it could look very 'goofy' on occasion but pro wrestling is all about trying to hook a crowd into a match, there are numerous 'lolwat' moments in every match which make wrestling look staged and a show (Savage's double axe handle off the top rope for example). Flair's act may not be the most realistic of all styles but it did what his job had to do by pulling a crowd into a match, got a baybface over as a credible opponent with how much he was bumping and made a match naturally engrossing and entertaining which is what world title matches should be. The fact he was a genius at usually bumping at key moments that added to the working story of the match is another thing to love about him.


*Antoniomare007* never seen the Crockett Cup match but plan on changing that later today maybe or at the very latest tomorrow.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

Bret/HBK Iron Man (and all their matches tbh) are about as engaging as a brick wall. And Bret's selling in that match is on par with Kurt Angle. 

"Hey, Shawn just worked my arm over for the first half of an hour long match... I think when we move into the second half I'll forget it ever happened! Yey!"


----------



## Yeah1993

I've probably seen 80 Flair matches better than that Iron Man. And I'm a fan of it.

Also as much as I like Michaels I don't think his name should be brought up in positive light when someone talks about Flair's bumps not looking real. Unrealistic bumps almost have no negative effect on me but Michaels is one of the bigger mainstream guys to be guilty of it.


----------



## Bubz

Flair/Steamboat 2/3 falls is one of the greatest matches ever, they wrestled for 55 minutes and it felt like 20, thats something no other match of that length has ever done for me. Sure there are great hour long matches, but making it seem like it lasted less than half the length it was is an amazing feet in itself. Just a testament to how entertaining these guys were together, when even a simple headlock is fun as hell to watch you know your watching greatness.


----------



## antoniomare007

Seabs said:


> *Watched the Windham/Flair series recently and the Worldwide and BOTB matches are both incredible, just shy of ***** for me. Crocket Cup match was still great but a clear step down from the other 2 matches.*


hmm, maybe I need to watch it again. Did you see the clipped version or the handheld full length match?


----------



## Henry Hill

Segunda Caida said:


> I can't really see how you can make that claim about Flair.....and not HBK when I've seen you pimp his work a lot in the past. Michaels was essentially the carbon coby of Flair in elaborate and goofy bumping in the 90s as a heel, albeit more athletic and utilising more high risk offence.
> 
> I can't fathom how a Flair match can be dull, especially when you say he's one of the most entertaining people for you to watch. He's always doing something in a match to make a basic hold more entertaining, his bumping and selling alone should be enough to make a match more than dull, and well 'dull' is something I could understand someone using to describe Bret given how most of his matches were just holds and ring work with little character or crowd participation. Compare Bret working holds to someone like Arn Anderson: 1 guy is just putting on a nice armbar, the other is doing little things like working the fingers in the armbar, pulling a glorious facial expression that conveys arrogance, taunting his opponent or posing to the crowd and getting a reaction. I'll leave it up to you to deduce who's the guy merely putting on a hold and who's the one trying to make that hold more dramatic and bigger in the context of the match.
> 
> Hart/HBK being better worked than Flair/Steamboat frankly is just astonishing to me, but your opinion none the less. Hell the fact both Bret and Shawn were unco-operative in their selling and blowing off the other guy's offence should be enough evidence to demonstrate why its not on Flair/Steamboat's level. Add in the poor pacing of the match and the structuring as well as poor story that wasn't executed at all well because both guys hated the other and had no intention of making the other look good and you have a pretty crap match. Flair vs Steamboat was a perfect face vs heel dynamic, with both men going beyond ring work to demonstrate their characters with Flair being conceited and arrogant and Steamboat bumping and selling like a hard working man determined to prove he was on the level of World Champion Flair. Add in the flawless execution, bumping, selling, pacing and crowd control as well as them utllising their charisma to make 60 minute matches fly by and not drag (something HBK vs Hart never was able to do) and you have a terrific chemistry which produced sensational matches that could appeal to fans who prefer selling, to fans who prefer a working story that was elaborated and developed throughout the match, a clear face vs heel dynamic with a perfect mix of working holds and heel schtick to pop the crowd at key moments.
> 
> Flair's bumping for me is what makes his matches so good. You can say they're goofy and nonsensical but when you take into account his whole act was to put over his opponent as a world beater whilst maintaining his credibility as champion him bumping like a madman and doing exaggerated KO bumps always popped the crowd into believing their hometown wrestler was moments away from beating the champion. I'd sooner have someone like Flair try to bump emphatically in these types of matches to get the crowd interested than a guy just doing run of the mill bumping that can't generate the reaction. Hell Michaels and Steamboat and Ricky Morton all made their legacies as all time sensational FIPs and sellers by bumping emphatically and dramatically off of their opponent's offence to get the crowd behind them. Flair was essentially a heel version of them by bumping above and beyond other heels becauase it got the crowd off of their feet when he'd collapse from his opponent's offence and got them into the match. Sure it could look very 'goofy' on occasion but pro wrestling is all about trying to hook a crowd into a match, there are numerous 'lolwat' moments in every match which make wrestling look staged and a show (Savage's double axe handle off the top rope for example). Flair's act may not be the most realistic of all styles but it did what his job had to do by pulling a crowd into a match, got a baybface over as a credible opponent with how much he was bumping and made a match naturally engrossing and entertaining which is what world title matches should be. The fact he was a genius at usually bumping at key moments that added to the working story of the match is another thing to love about him.
> 
> 
> *Antoniomare007* never seen the Crockett Cup match but plan on changing that later today maybe or at the very latest tomorrow.


No comparison between HBK and Flair as far as I can see.

Shawn had the agility of a gymnast, the emotion of an oscar winning actor, the heart of a lion, the showmanship of a street entertainer and unparalleled coordination and timing. Apart from the stupid front flip into the ropes that he copied of Flair, I don't see any other similarities. Shawn's bumps were usually sickeningly authentic and often looked like he was genuinely hurt. 

As for the Iron Man Match, it would have got a far greater reaction had that type of bout been done in the Steamboat/Flair era. As it was audiences had become too impatient to tolerate that kind of contest in the mid nineties and didn't appreciate its patient build. For me its a near perfect match that makes the world championship look like a million dollars. Both men so good that they can't outdo the other for a near fall in an entire sixty minutes match. Amazing chemistry, emotion and authentically structured with regards to a cautious approach that builds towards an increasingly fast pace towards the end. I only have it at four and a half stars (don't do 3/4 ratings) because of the crowd but the last half hour is comfortably the best wrestling I have ever seen. 

The points you make about Flair are all sound and his approach is what brought the crowd into his matches. But then look at a guy like Bret Hart who managed to draw the crowd in whilst also making wrestling look like an authentic sporting contest. I much prefer watching Bret look genuinely hurt whilst selling than watching some guy ham it up for all its worth as his opponent has him in a headlock. Flair is the most entertaining wrestler I've ever seen but I don't just watch wrestling to be entertained. I think a great wrestler is a combination of someone who can show personality, emotion, technical fluidity, convincingly sell, effectively time the big moments and make you truly root for or against them depending on their role. Now I can tell that you think Flair ticks all that boxes and more but for me he doesn't and that's why I don't see him as one of the all time greats as an in ring performer.



> "Hey, Shawn just worked my arm over for the first half of an hour long match... I think when we move into the second half I'll forget it ever happened! Yey!"


Just to confirm that in defence of Flair, you're having a go at two men doing something that makes no sense inside of the middle of the ring. Well personally I'd much rather an athlete neglect to work an arm than see a man walk like a zombie before falling flat on his face.


----------



## SuperDuperSonic

> they wrestled for 55 minutes and it felt like 20, thats something no other match of that length has ever done for me


Bryan Danielson vs. Roderick Strong - Vendetta


----------



## bigbuxxx

bubz123 said:


> Flair/Steamboat 2/3 falls is one of the greatest matches ever, they wrestled for 55 minutes and it felt like 20


i felt this way during a kenta/marifuji 60 min draw but there's no way i'd give that 5 stars.


----------



## Bubz

SuperDuperSonic said:


> Bryan Danielson vs. Roderick Strong - Vendetta


Shit, was that match really that long? If so then good call, I love that match, I know their SOH match went for about an hour aswell but I wasn't as big a fan of that one.

And @bigbuxxx I wasn't saying that's the only reason why the match was so good, just one of the reasons. The fact that they kept every second of the match fun and full of drama is what I was trying to say. Everything they did made sense in it aswell, which i'm pretty sure didn't happen in KENTA/Fuji.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Henry Hill said:


> No comparison between HBK and Flair as far as I can see.
> 
> Shawn had the agility of a gymnast, the emotion of an oscar winning actor, the heart of a lion, the showmanship of a street entertainer and unparalleled coordination and timing. Apart from the stupid front flip into the ropes that he copied of Flair, I don't see any other similarities. Shawn's bumps were usually sickeningly authentic and often looked like he was genuinely hurt.


Just quoting this because the rest of your post was well explained to the point where I feel we'd end up cancelling each other out and ultimately derailing the thread with a lot of talk that goes nowhere, so I'll just bring up this one point.

HBK was just as comical in his bumping as Flair, remember this is a man who was punched once and flew down an entire entrance ramp back to the ring. I generally do enjoy HBK bumping comically and emphatically as a heel because I feel heels bumping like that can envoke a much better reaction from a crowd the same way a babyface bumping and selling a beating like Morton or Steamboat by bumping in exaggerated fashion, but to me saying Flair's bumping is too goofy for you whilst praising HBK seems like a case of overlooking the same flaw in a wrestler you prefer. Its not a knock on HBK when I say he's almost on Flair's level of emphatic bumping, but I can't see how anyone would try to argue that HBK wasn't a very comical bumper especially as a heel and at times as a babyface, you can tell he watched a lot of Flair and wanted to work like him a lot especially in eating a beating.

As for the rest of your point about HBK, I do honestly think he was ultimately a better tag wrestler than he was a singles wrestler. I'd rank him a top 5 all time tag worker and just feel tags played to his strengths (amazing FIP and tremendous short term seller) whilst hiding his faults post 2002 (blowing off the selling when making his comeback). He's still been in some of my favourite matches of all time but I do feel especially post 2002 his long term selling really dwindled in numerous matches whereas tag team matches allowed him to sell terrificly without having to worry about long term selling due to how most tags break down after the hot tag. There were moments where he was consistently superb but watching a few matches of his post 2002 in the last few months made me think in some individual matches he was delving more into a Kurt Angle formula, which is a formula I've grown to loathe as time has passed.

As for Bret: I've really taken a more fonder appreciation to wrestlers who mix the ring work with mannerisms and facial expressions. My point about Arn was that he would try to act like a heel even with the most basic hold applied, i.e taunting the crowd or his opponent and trying to consistently work a crowd. Bret had his style down to a tee but I just don't get a kick out of watching guys like him almost wrestle like there isn't a crowd as opposed to wrestlers who try and work a crowd through their bumping, offence, comedy spots etc.


----------



## seabs

antoniomare007 said:


> hmm, maybe I need to watch it again. Did you see the clipped version or the handheld full length match?


*Full version.*


----------



## 777

Segunda Caida said:


> As for Bret: I've really taken a more fonder appreciation to wrestlers who mix the ring work with mannerisms and facial expressions. My point about Arn was that he would try to act like a heel even with the most basic hold applied, i.e taunting the crowd or his opponent and trying to consistently work a crowd. Bret had his style down to a tee but I just don't get a kick out of watching guys like him almost wrestle like there isn't a crowd as opposed to wrestlers who try and work a crowd through their bumping, offence, comedy spots etc.


Your are correct in your criticisms of Hart, but in his defense, that was kinda his schtick. 

As with any talent the promoter should attempt to play up the positives while downplaying the negatives. It's not that Bret was incapable of doing that type of thing, some of his work in the tag division comes to mind, when he was really heeling it up. 
But the majority of his solo run, right up until WM13, was as a top face in the company. It wasn't his role to provoke the crowd but to demonstrate his concentration and hard work as the 'excellence of execution', nor could he take the comedy route as that would undermine the seriousness of the Hitman character. It was also a clever way to hide his weaknesses as he obviously lacked the charisma of a Hogan. 

Bret was a 'wrestling' fan's wrestler and it was one of the reasons why the company didn't reach the heights it did with Hogan or Austin. 
I personally love Bret Hart's work and he will forever be one of my favorites. However, your dislike of his approach is entirely valid and I would go so far as to say that a lot of fans would agree, as attendance numbers demonstrated.


----------



## tboneangle

Just Updated my list. here it is! def gonna stop trippin off it haha


-Ric Flair(c) vs Sting,NWA Title,NWA Clash Of The Champions

-Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat(c), NWA World Title ,Judges At Ringside,NWA/WCW WrestleWar 1989 

-Sting's Squadron vs Dangerous Alliance,War Games,WCW WrestleWar 1992

-Bret Hart(c) vs Davey Boy Smith, WWF Intercontinental Title, WWF Summerslam 1992

-Bret Hart vs Owen Hart, WWF WrestleMania X 

-Razor Ramon(c) vs Shawn Michaels,WWF IC Title,Ladder Match,WWF WrestleMania X 

-Chris Benoit vs Great Sasuke,Super J Cup Finals,NJPW Super J Cup 1994

-Bret Hart(c) vs Shawn Michaels,WWF Title,60 Minute Iron Man Match,WWF Wrestlemania 12 

-Megumi Kudo vs Combat Toyoda,Deathmatch,FMW 5-5-1996 

-Rey Mysterio vs Psychosis,WCW Bash At The Beach 1996

-Bret Hart vs Steve Austin,Submission Match,WWF Wrestlemania 13

-Shawn Michaels(c) vs The Undertaker,WWF Title,Hell In A Cell,WWF Badd Blood 1997 

-Rey Mysterio vs Eddie Guerrero(c),WCW CW Title vs Mask,WCW Halloween Havoc 1997 

-Rob Van Dam(c) vs Jerry Lynn,ECW TV Title,ECW Hardcore Heaven 1999 

-Bret Hart vs Chris Benoit,WCW Nitro 10-4-1999

-Triple H(c) vs Cactus Jack,WWF Title,Street Fight,WWF Royal Rumble 2000 

-Kurt Angle(c) vs The Rock vs The Undertaker vs Steve Austin vs Triple H vs Rikishi,WWF Title,Hell In A Cell,WWF Armageddon 2000

-Triple H vs Steve Austin,2/3 Falls,WWF No Way Out 2001 

-Edge And Christain vs The Hardy Boyz vs The Dudley Boyz(c),WWF Tag Titles,TLC,WWF WrestleMania X-Seven 

-The Rock(c) vs Steve Austin,WWF Title,NO DQ,WWF WrestleMania X-Seven 

-Kurt Angle vs Shane Mcmahon,Street Fight,WWF King Of The Ring 2001 

-Kurt Angle vs Steve Austin(c),WWF Title,WWF Unforgiven 2001

-AJ Styles vs Jerry Lynn vs Low Ki vs Psicosis,(first)TNA X Title,Double Elimination,NWA-TNA Weekly PPV #2

-Kurt Angle vs The Undertaker(c) vs The Rock,WWE Undisputed Title,WWE Vengeance 2002

-Shawn Michaels vs Triple H,Street Fight,WWE Summerslam 2002

-Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit vs Edge and Rey Mysterio,WWE Tag Titles(First),WWE No Mercy 2002 

-Brock Lesnar(c) vs The Undertaker,WWE Title,Hell In A Cell,WWE No Mercy 2002 

-Kurt Angle(c) vs Chris Benoit,WWE Title,WWE Royal Rumble 2003 

-Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho,WWE WrestleMania XIX

-Kurt Angle(c) vs Brock Lesnar,WWE Title,Level Playing Field,WWE WrestleMania XIX 

-Kurt Angle(c) vs Brock Lesnar,WWE Title,WWE Summerslam 2003 

-Kurt Angle(c) vs Brock Lesnar,WWE Title,60 Minute Iron Man Match,WWE Smackdown 9-18-2003 

-Kurt Angle vs Eddie Guerrero(c),WWE Title,WWE WrestleMania XX 

-Triple H(c) vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels,WWE WHC,WWE WrestleMania XX 

-Randy Orton(c) vs Cactus Jack,WWE IC Title,Hardcore Match,WWE Backlash 2004 

-AMW vs XXX,Cage,Losers Must Disband,TNA Turning Point 2004

-AJ Styles vs Chris Sabin vs Petey Williams(c),TNA X Title,Ultimate X,TNA Final Resolution 2005 

-AJ Styles(c) vs Christopher Daniels,TNA X Title,30 Minute Iron Man Match,TNA Against All Odds 2005 

-Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels,WWE WrestleMania 21 

-AJ Styles vs Matt Hardy,IWC 7-29-2005 

-AJ Styles vs Samoa Joe vs Christopher Daniels(c),TNA X Title,TNA Unbreakable 2005 

-Samoa Joe vs Kenta Kobashi,ROH Joe vs Kobashi

-Kurt Angle(c) vs The Undertaker,WWE WHC,WWE No Way Out 2006 

-Blood Generation vs Do Fixer,ROH Supercard Of Honor 3-31-2006 

-John Cena vs Shawn Michaels,WWE Raw 4-23-2007

-Kurt Angle vs AJ Styles vs Samoa Joe vs Christain Cage vs ???,TNA World Title(First),KOM,TNA Slammiversary 2007 

-Kurt Angle(c) vs Samoa Joe,TNA Title vs Career,Cage,TNA Lockdown 2008

-Kurt Angle vs Abyss,Falls Count Anywhere,TNA Turning Point 2008

-Kurt Angle vs Jeff Jarrett,NO DQ,TNA Genesis 2009

-Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels,WWE WrestleMania 25

-Kurt Angle vs Matt Morgan,TNA Bound For Glory 2009

-Kurt Angle vs AJ Styles(c),TNA Title,TNA Genesis 2010

-Kurt Angle vs Mr Anderson,Cage,Escape Only,TNA Lockdown 2010 

-MCMG(c) vs Beer Money,2/3 Falls,TNA Tag Titles,TNA Whole F'N Show 

-AJ Styles vs Bully Ray,Last Man Standing,TNA Slammiversary IX 2011

-Eddie Edwards(c) vs Davey Richards,ROH Title,ROH Best In The World 2011

-John Cena(c)vs CM Punk,WWE Title-WWE Money In The Bank 2011

Total-57


----------



## bigbuxxx

you forgot kurt angle vs. a beanbag

shawn vs. razor at WMX is a match that just doesn't hold up for me. i tried watching it a few months ago and couldn't even finish it. when it happened i thought it was the most amazing match ever and watched it over and over. anybody else watch it recently that still likes it?


----------



## tboneangle

i gave that match ****1/2


----------



## Fighter Daron

Five Stars to an Abyss match?, HOLY CRAP!


----------



## tboneangle

Here is the final listing same as before


-Ric Flair(c) vs Sting,NWA Title,NWA Clash Of The Champions

-Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat(c), NWA World Title ,Judges At Ringside,NWA/WCW WrestleWar 1989 

-Sting's Squadron vs Dangerous Alliance,War Games,WCW WrestleWar 1992

-Bret Hart(c) vs Davey Boy Smith, WWF Intercontinental Title, WWF Summerslam 1992

-Bret Hart vs Owen Hart, WWF WrestleMania X 

-Razor Ramon(c) vs Shawn Michaels,WWF IC Title,Ladder Match,WWF WrestleMania X 

-Wild Pegasus vs Great Sasuke,NJPW Super J Cup Finals 1994

-Bret Hart(c) vs Shawn Michaels,WWF Title,60 Minute Iron Man Match,WWF Wrestlemania 12 

-Megumi Kudo vs Combat Toyoda,Deathmatch,FMW 5-5-1996 

-Rey Mysterio vs Psychosis,WCW Bash At The Beach 1996

-Bret Hart vs Steve Austin,Submission Match,WWF Wrestlemania 13

-Shawn Michaels(c) vs The Undertaker,WWF Title,Hell In A Cell,WWF Badd Blood 1997 

-Rey Mysterio vs Eddie Guerrero(c),WCW CW Title vs Mask,WCW Halloween Havoc 1997 

-Rob Van Dam(c) vs Jerry Lynn,ECW TV Title,ECW Hardcore Heaven 1999 

-Bret Hart vs Chris Benoit,WCW Nitro 10-4-1999

-Triple H(c) vs Cactus Jack,WWF Title,Street Fight,WWF Royal Rumble 2000 

-Kurt Angle(c) vs The Rock vs Steve Austin vs The Undertaker vs Triple H vs Rikishi,WWF Title,Hell In A Cell-WWF Armageddon 2000

-Triple H vs Steve Austin,2/3 Falls,WWF No Way Out 2001 

-Edge And Christain vs The Hardy Boyz vs The Dudley Boyz(c),WWF Tag Titles,TLC,WWF WrestleMania X-Seven 

-The Rock(c) vs Steve Austin,WWF Title,NO DQ,WWF WrestleMania X-Seven 

-Kurt Angle vs Shane Mcmahon,Street Fight,WWF King Of The Ring 2001 

-Kurt Angle vs Steve Austin(c),WWF Title,WWF Unforgiven 2001

-AJ Styles vs Jerry Lynn vs Low Ki vs Psicosis,(first)TNA X Title,Double Elimination,NWA-TNA Weekly PPV #2

-Kurt Angle vs The Undertaker(c) vs The Rock,WWE Undisputed Title,WWE Vengeance 2002

-Shawn Michaels vs Triple H,Street Fight,WWE Summerslam 2002

-Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit vs Edge and Rey Mysterio,WWE Tag Titles(First),WWE No Mercy 2002 

-Brock Lesnar(c) vs The Undertaker,WWE Title,Hell In A Cell,WWE No Mercy 2002 

-Kurt Angle(c) vs Chris Benoit,WWE Title,WWE Royal Rumble 2003 

-Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho,WWE WrestleMania XIX

-Kurt Angle(c) vs Brock Lesnar,WWE Title,Level Playing Field,WWE WrestleMania XIX 

-Kurt Angle(c) vs Brock Lesnar,WWE Title,WWE Summerslam 2003 

-Kurt Angle(c) vs Brock Lesnar,WWE Title,60 Minute Iron Man Match,WWE Smackdown 9-18-2003 

-Kurt Angle vs Eddie Guerrero(c),WWE Title,WWE WrestleMania XX 

-Triple H(c) vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels,WWE WHC,WWE WrestleMania XX 

-Randy Orton(c) vs Cactus Jack,WWE IC Title,Hardcore Match,WWE Backlash 2004 

-AMW vs XXX,Cage,Losers Must Disband,TNA Turning Point 2004

-AJ Styles vs Chris Sabin vs Petey Williams(c),TNA X Title,Ultimate X,TNA Final Resolution 2005 

-AJ Styles(c) vs Christopher Daniels,TNA X Title,30 Minute Iron Man Match,TNA Against All Odds 2005 

-Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels,WWE WrestleMania 21 

-AJ Styles vs Matt Hardy,IWC 7-29-2005 

-AJ Styles vs Samoa Joe vs Christopher Daniels(c),TNA X Title,TNA Unbreakable 2005 

-Samoa Joe vs Kenta Kobashi,ROH Joe vs Kobashi

-Kurt Angle(c) vs The Undertaker,WWE WHC,WWE No Way Out 2006 

-Blood Generation vs Do Fixer,ROH Supercard Of Honor 3-31-2006 

-John Cena vs Shawn Michaels,WWE Raw 4-23-2007

-Kurt Angle vs AJ Styles vs Samoa Joe vs Christain Cage vs ???,TNA World Title(First),KOM,TNA Slammiversary 2007 

-Kurt Angle(c) vs Samoa Joe,TNA Title vs Career,Cage,TNA Lockdown 2008

-Kurt Angle vs Abyss,Falls Count Anywhere,TNA Turning Point 2008

-Kurt Angle vs Jeff Jarrett,NO DQ,TNA Genesis 2009

-Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels,WWE WrestleMania 25

-Kurt Angle vs Matt Morgan,TNA Bound For Glory 2009

-Kurt Angle vs AJ Styles(c),TNA Title,TNA Genesis 2010

-Kurt Angle vs Mr Anderson,Cage,Escape Only,TNA Lockdown 2010 

-MCMG(c) vs Beer Money,2/3 Falls,TNA Tag Titles,TNA Whole F'N Show 

-AJ Styles vs Bully Ray,Last Man Standing,TNA Slammiversary IX 2011

-Eddie Edwards(c) vs Davey Richards,ROH Title,ROH Best In The World 2011

-John Cena(c)vs CM Punk,WWE Title-WWE Money In The Bank 2011

Total-57
Angle-19


the abyss match is amazing. Great storytelling with sick spots.


----------



## Violent By Design

so nice, had to post it twice


----------



## Fighter Daron

Why have posted the same list?


----------



## Cactus

Time to add Flair/Steamboat 2/3 falls to mah list.

I've decided to strict things up on my list as I've seemed to let any great match get the 5 star award. Some matches that I wasn't too into have been removed (Sorry, Kawada vs Misawa '94) but may be re-added after a future watch.


----------



## TelkEvolon

No Kobashi/Sasaki from NOAH?


----------



## Cactus

TelkEvolon said:


> No Kobashi/Sasaki from NOAH?


Haven't seen all of it. I've heard it's just a chopfest though.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

The chop exchange does go needlessly long but they still work the whole drama of the exchange much better than the rest of the fucktards who've copied it ever since and have killed the spot.

Kobashi is a guy I've always loved as a worker (more so in the 90s) but he's up there with Eddie now in helping popularise a spot that has become one of the things I hate in matches. In Eddie's case, he and Malenko popularised that bullshit 'we're equals' opening matwork exchange which you seen in 95% of independent matches nowadays.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Segunda Caida said:


> The chop exchange does go needlessly long but they still work the whole drama of the exchange.


there's no drama. i was sitting there thinking "when the fuck will this garbage exchange end". the beginning and end weren't much better either. match is not close to 5 stars.


----------



## seabs

*I can see why people wouldn't love the match if they weren't into the chop exchange but in the same light that was the same reason why I loved it so much.*


----------



## McQueen

The chop battle was important because you have two guys known for throwing wicked hard chops having a first time ever dream match and in a sense it was a puro equivelent of the Hogan/Warrior test of strength battle at WM 6. That being said I agree they over did it. Otherwise I thought the atmosphere, and the way the rest of the match was worked was great.


----------



## Cactus

I'm on the verge of giving KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs Kota Ibushi & Naomichi Marufuji ***** based solely on the last 10 minutes. That shit was wack. I couldn't get into it though until near the end. I'll give it a re-watch before the doing the rating.


----------



## McQueen

Marufuji in a ***** match does not compute.


----------



## TelkEvolon

KENTA/Ishimori vs Aoki/Ibushi from 2009 is one of my favoirte tag matches. There is just something about it that I always enjoy so much.


----------



## seabs

*I've got the NTV Cup Final that Cactus mentioned at 5*. It's spotty and everything but it's about as great of a spotfest that you'll find. I'm never gonna rewatch though because it's 99% certain I probably wont like it as much when I do, if at all.*


----------



## Fighter Daron

McQueen said:


> Marufuji in a ***** match does not compute.


And Taiji does?


----------



## Cactus

Fighter Daron said:


> And Taiji does?


What's with the Taiji hate? I've seen 3 matches of the kid and I was impressed by them all. Sure, he's freakin' weird looking and he's got that god awful 8-pack going on, but he brings the goods to the ring.



Seabs said:


> *I've got the NTV Cup Final that Cactus mentioned at 5*. It's spotty and everything but it's about as great of a spotfest that you'll find. I'm never gonna rewatch though because it's 99% certain I probably wont like it as much when I do, if at all.*


In my opinion, if a match isn't as great on a rewatch, it's not a 5 star match. A 5 star match has to be timeless for me.


----------



## Yeah1993

I haven't seen Kobashi/Sasaki yet but if it's anything like Kobashi/Akiyama 2004 then I'm not really looking too forward to it.


----------



## McQueen

Less overkill in Kobashi/Sasaki


----------



## Yeah1993

McQueen said:


> Less overkill in Kobashi/Sasaki


kewl. I'd be fine with 'overkill' if they actually put something in b/w them spots. Like, Cena/Umaga, for an example. Honestly that's borderline spotfest (steel steps into Umaga's head, announce table flop, finish with ropes, monitor on head, Cena fails FU, Cena "Hulks up", GREATEST SAMOAN DROP EVER, etc. etc.) but the stuff in between made it seem a lot more than that. KK/Akiyama felt like bomb, chop, bomb, chop, bomb, chop, chop, chop, chop battle, bomb, bomb, bomb. I don't know where I'm headed with this, I still think it's good. Just not great. Shut up.


----------



## antoniomare007

Seabs said:


> * I'm never gonna rewatch though because it's 99% certain I probably wont like it as much when I do, if at all.*


lol, I feel the same way about that match and Kobashi vs Akiyama in 04'.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I once saw Ishimori have a guy in a tombstone and STILL try and turn it into some contrived and 'awesome' move instead of just hitting a freaking piledriver. Marufuji is complete toss whenever I've seen him and really is about as close to being the Angle of Japan as I can find. I get why people love him though and that's perfectly fine but I just can't find someone so obviously relying on his athleticism to cover up his flaws that good of a worker. The minute his body breaks down he'll be fucked and I doubt he'll be able to evolve and reinvent himself like Mysterio did. That's the true sign of an intelligent worker mixed with unrivalled athleticism.

Also whoever it was that said there was no drama in Kobashi vs Sasaki, McQueen covered it well. They definitely over did the chop battle but it was a spot people were expecting because of how chops played a big part in both guy's offence and it being a top AJPW/NOAH guy vs a top NJPW guy in a dream made the spectacle that much more engrossing. The Warrior vs Hogan test of strength spot is an excellent comparison.

Like I said though, fuck the pair of them for popularising that spot to the point where heavyweights/juniors in Japan and the Indies are trying to replicate the same exchange all the pissing time and killing whatever drama and intrigue the exchange ever had.


----------



## Bubz

I love Kobashi/Sasaki, it's a hella fun match to watch, but it isn't near 5 stars IMO. Kobashi/Akiyama however I thought was amazing, and there was more drama in it than Kobashi/Sasaki, even if there is more overkill, but I thought it worked. The suplex to the floor in that match is fucking ridiculous, Kobashi actually spits blood after the spot, and the next time they went out to the apron I literally said to myself 'For fucks sake, not again', but in a good way lol.


----------



## Violent By Design

Seabs said:


> *http://www.fileserve.com/file/WmSQANN*


Finally got around to downloading this. Thanks a lot man!


----------



## seabs

Cactus said:


> What's with the Taiji hate? I've seen 3 matches of the kid and I was impressed by them all. Sure, he's freakin' weird looking and he's got that god awful 8-pack going on, but he brings the goods to the ring.


*He was fine back when he was tagging with KENTA when KENTA was fucking awesome. Then they stopped tagging, he started tagging with lesser guys and working singles matches and it began to show how how very average of a worker he is. Plus he entered that body-building contest and began looking ... odd. I hate the tombstone spot that he does as well but in his defense a lot of people throw tombstone spots out there like it's nothing (and to be fair that's always been the case, even in the 80's when piledrivers were tossed out like a regular move). *



Cactus said:


> In my opinion, if a match isn't as great on a rewatch, it's not a 5 star match. A 5 star match has to be timeless for me.


*True but I prefer my opinion of it being an amazing match rather than watching it again and it not being so, largely due to my tastes changing a lot since then. *


antoniomare007 said:


> lol, I feel the same way about that match and Kobashi vs Akiyama in 04'.


*Not sure I'd dislike Kobashi/Akiyama if I watched it today. The big spots that they do are fucking great and it's kinda controlled and they have the atmosphere to make up for it being a bit spot heavy but I still remember it being a great match regardless of the spots.*


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Yeah1993 said:


> I haven't seen Kobashi/Sasaki yet but if it's anything like Kobashi/Akiyama 2004 then I'm not really looking too forward to it.


It's not.

Kobashi v Takayama is better than both of them, though.


----------



## McQueen

Agreed with the drunkard.


----------



## Cactus

'nother one for the list. The Funks vs Bruiser Brody & Jimmy Snuka (AJPW 12/13/81)


----------



## TheeJayBee

Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA - Glory By Honor IV


----------



## horrorfan_1984

Kobashi vs. Taue 04 is better than both the Sasaki and Akiyama matches


----------



## Yeah1993

Andy3000 said:


> It's not.
> 
> Kobashi v Takayama is better than both of them, though.


Thought Kobashi/Takayama pretty much smokes anything from NOAH's history that I've seen. Got no idea what I'd put as the 2nd best NOAH match behind that but there'd be a big gap.


----------



## Chismo

EDIT: nvm.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Yeah1993 said:


> Thought Kobashi/Takayama pretty much smokes anything from NOAH's history that I've seen. Got no idea what I'd put as the 2nd best NOAH match behind that but there'd be a big gap.


It's definitely top 5 for me. I'd have it behind the 11/05 Kobashi/Go v Sasaki/Nakajima tag (pending a re-watch of that, anyway), but I'm struggling to think of anything else.


----------



## Bubz

JoeRulz said:


> Kobashi/Akiyama (MOTD) > Kobashi/Takayama > Kobashi/Misawa > Kobashi/Sasaki > Misawa/Takayama (2002). But I have'em all at *****.


I would probably have them in that order aswell to be honest.

I need to see that Kobashi/Go vs Sasaki/Nakajima match.


----------



## Chismo

bubz123 said:


> I would probably have them in that order aswell to be honest.
> 
> *I need to see that Kobashi/Go vs Sasaki/Nakajima match.*


ASAP. Check Kobashi & KENTA vs. Kensuke Office too. And KENTAfuji vs Kanemaru & Sugiura (6/5/2005). And Misawa & Kobashi vs. Akiyama & Nagata (2002 I think).


----------



## Bubz

Cheers for those, I think I watched the Kobashi/KENTA one a while ago. Just watched the Kobashi/Go vs Kensuke Office match. Really awesome match, but not sure i'd have it at the 5* level. Go looked the best, he has improved a lot since then though I think. The spot were Kobashi/Sasaki were doing their chop war again, and Kobashi seemingly said 'Fuck this' and chopped Sasaki's arm as he went for a chop was awesome.


----------



## SuperDuperSonic

It needs to be said that anybody who considers giving Kurt Angle vs. Jeff Hardy anything close to ***** should be castrated to prevent reproduction. If I had been in attendance, I'd have walked out on it.


----------



## Yeah1993

Thought that NOAH tag from 05 was great but I didn't "get it" get it. As in, MOTDC or anything. Still the best NOAH tag I've seen, though.


----------



## Fighter Daron

SuperDuperSonic said:


> It needs to be said that anybody who considers giving Kurt Angle vs. Jeff Hardy anything close to ***** should be castrated to prevent reproduction. If I had been in attendance, I'd have walked out on it.



^
This.


----------



## Cactus

SuperDuperSonic said:


> It needs to be said that anybody who considers giving Kurt Angle vs. Jeff Hardy anything close to ***** should be castrated to prevent reproduction. If I had been in attendance, I'd have walked out on it.


I've only seen parts of it when I was watching one of the TNA PPV's on and off and I saw the last 5 minutes of the match. It seemed alright, crowd ate it up. What's so bad about their series?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

Kurt Angle Vs Jeff Hardy nearly gave me a stroke. I don't think I've ever been that pissed off watching a WRESTLING MATCH. 30 minutes of absolute fucking stupidity. Makes the Angle/Anderson and Angle/Jarrett cage matches seem like ***** matches in comparison.


----------



## Cactus

Explain what's so horrendous about it..


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

Its nothing but MOVES~! with both men whoring their finishers out like they were fucking arm drags, and I've seen more selling from Gill on The Simpsons.


----------



## smitlick

i made the mistake of watching it on a stream while i was bored. Jesus it was awful.


----------



## Fighter Daron

And what about the five more minutes and the draw?, everything in that match was dizzy.


----------



## Cactus

KingCal said:


> Its nothing but MOVES~! with both men whoring their finishers out like they were fucking arm drags, and I've seen more selling from Gill on The Simpsons.


lol @ Gill reference. 

Yeah, that's one of things I can't stand about Angle. He whores his finisher out like fuck. I can't take an Angle Slam seriously. It never gets him the win first time.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Cactus said:


> Explain what's so horrendous about it..


Same Angle nonsense tbh mixed in with Hardy being horrible execution wise (including breaking Angle's rib with a Swanton). They start doing chain wrestling etc but never build or develop it as 'Angle bests Hardy so Hardy tries somethig else', they just move into brawling and arm drags and shit. They throw things like swanton's to the floor out halfway into the match, Hardy's in an ankle lock for like 5 minutes which Kurt never touched prior and IIRC after the restart he's fucking awful at selling it and makes it look like shit on top of Kurt throwing it out there himself. I can't remember but I also want to say Angle takes a while going back to the ankle after he locks it in for the 5 minutes and attempts the Angle slam instead but I may be wrong there and confusing with another match of his.

The whole execution of 'there must be a winner' and then them doing some copout finish added to the massacre that was my eyes whilst watching that shower of shit. Nothing was built, sold or developed to mean anything in the context of the match, neither man brought much in the way of character or reacted to their finishers being kicked out of, I think Tenay even sold a Swanton kick out as 'did he get it??? No' and crapped on it as bad as Hardy & Angle did. Just ultimately never mattered in the end with them going the length they did as it wasn't sold or treated as impactful and after declaring there would finally be a winner to this 'epic' (Trading standards should have been consulted at this point) battle as they did a BS finish and then did a rematch on free TV a week later which again went longer than it needed to as they never built the match to be anything better than a 6 minute sprint would have sufficed.

The rematch also has by far Angle's worst moment of stupidity I've ever seen:

He attempts an ankle lock from nowhere and the match hasn't built at all well to this tease and Hardy manages to escape. Kurt then picks him up and hits two Angle slams like they're bloody bodyslams which Hardy kicks out of like they're a standard bodyslam, and as he's struggling to get to his feet Angle instead of now applying the ankle lock to a much more weakened Hardy prances around the ring for 20 seconds......picks Hardy up and hits a snap suplex and sleeper. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


----------



## Cactus

Umm... Eh... I thought you said Jeff *Jarrett* vs Kurt Angle....

Shite. My bad.


----------



## Violent By Design

KingCal said:


> Kurt Angle Vs Jeff Hardy nearly gave me a stroke. I don't think I've ever been that pissed off watching a WRESTLING MATCH. 30 minutes of absolute fucking stupidity. Makes the Angle/Anderson and Angle/Jarrett cage matches seem like ***** matches in comparison.


What's wrong with the Angle/Anderson cage match?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

Cactus said:


> Umm... Eh... I thought you said Jeff *Jarrett* vs Kurt Angle....
> 
> Shite. My bad.


:lmao

Though other than... their first 2 matches I think, I'm not a fan of their matches either . Nothing close to Angle/Hardy in terms of shittyness though.

Also, fuck you . Said a couple of days ago that I am gonna stop talking about Angle. Bored of constantly posting the same old stuff explaining how shitty he is and why the majority of his matches are these days, so I'm done talking about the guy. From now on of course .


----------



## Tanner1495

Kobashi/Akiyama is an amazing match. 5 stars in my book. Fantastic!


----------



## Fighter Daron

For me, Angle/Anderson and Angle/Jarrett are the best series of Angle in TNA with the Joe one.


----------



## Cactus

KingCal said:


> :lmao
> 
> Though other than... their first 2 matches I think, I'm not a fan of their matches either . Nothing close to Angle/Hardy in terms of shittyness though.
> 
> Also, fuck you . Said a couple of days ago that I am gonna stop talking about Angle. Bored of constantly posting the same old stuff explaining how shitty he is and why the majority of his matches are these days, so I'm done talking about the guy. From now on of course .


Calling Angle shitty isn't cool. He was a brilliant wrestler, but he didn't know how to construct his matches well. If he could have the mind of someone like Bret Hart, who was brilliant at constructing matches, we would have a grade A wrestler on our hands.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

He's a shit pro wrestler. Pro wrestling is all about telling a story, and Angle is shit at it .


----------



## Violent By Design

Fighter Daron said:


> For me, Angle/Anderson and Angle/Jarrett are the best series of Angle in TNA with the Joe one.


I think Angle vs Anderson is the best wrestling match in TNA. I mean it's really the only real good match that felt like actual wrestling. It was spotty, but well constructed. It's a great blow off in terms of a hero making the bad guy look like a jack ass.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

People with little clue in how to construct a match properly in my opinion are poor/shit pro wrestlers/workers.

Anways we may as well ditch the Angle talk, this thread is terrific and getting into repeated arguments over the same guy (sure Angle has been mentioned and discussed to death in this thread) will only lead to it getting bogged down with mindless bickering. In my shortime here I've come to accept that Kurt Angle discussions never go anywhere positive.


----------



## Cactus

Okay, after this...

Fun fact, 2 years ago (before puro & indy was discovered by meh) Angle was my 2nd GOAT, behind Shawn Michaels. Come at me, WF.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Got nothing to be ashamed of, even if you still rank him that high. At the end of the day what annoys me about him likely entertains many more people, its all discussion at the end of the day and no-one is right or wrong. Hell I used to adore HBK vs Angle Wrestlemania 21 and now whilst I think its ok I find it has severe faults I never cared for/understood before when watching live. 

Tastes change, new discoveries are made etc.


----------



## Fighter Daron

Cactus said:


> Okay, after this...
> 
> Fun fact, 2 years ago (before puro & indy was discovered by meh) Angle was my 2nd GOAT, behind Shawn Michaels. Come at me, WF.


Hey, I was just like you, but I still love Michaels xD


----------



## Yeah1993

I used to think really highly of Angle and I still get why people do. I could probably drum 200 guys I think are better now, though.


----------



## Cactus

Fighter Daron said:


> Hey, I was just like you, but I still love Michaels xD


Yeah. HBK is always going to be my GOAT. Even if I discover more guys like Misawa and Kobashi, HBK always takes the edge with the nostalgia factor.


----------



## Bubz

Angle talk must end!

Agree with Segunda that this thread is awesome, it's provided me with a lot of stuff I might not have seen otherwise, and it's got me into puro properly. This bad boy should be stickied!


----------



## McQueen

Not enough talk about Bob Backlund, Terry Funk and Stan Hansen killing people via Lariat.

West Texas in the middle of the 70's was the center of the universe for win.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

I have 1 Angle match at ***** and no Backlund matches that high.

So I propose that Bob Backlund returns to WWE to challenge Undertaker at WM so he can get the ***** he deserves. Undertaker is the only reason Angle has one, so imagine BOB in that position?


----------



## McQueen

Bob Backlund left the WWF because he was going to end the streak 7 years before Taker joined the WWF and they wouldn't let him.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

McQueen said:


> Not enough talk about Bob Backlund, Terry Funk and Stan Hansen killing people via Lariat.
> 
> West Texas in the middle of the 70's was the center of the universe for win.


I'm on the BOB train Baby!! His broadway vs Valentine in 1979 was probably my MOTD although I haven't seen nearly enough of 70s footage for that to be a nailed on contender. Funk vs Lawler NO DQ 1981 is now my favourite match of all time and Hansen breaking Kobashi's cheekbone had me screaming 'FUCKING HELL' louder than ever before. All 3 are ridiculously awesome though and I think Andy a few weeks back was talking Hansen up as a legit GOAT candidate...he's probably put about 15 guys over him now I've said this :side:

Also Cal I thought you said Lesnar vs Angle was the full 5* from you? Guessing its Smackdown 2003 you have at ***** given your love for it in the Top 100 Matches poll?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

I hear that BOB was gonna be the one to have the streak before Undertaker arrived. And he was gonna be at EVERY WrestleMania. So he'd be 27-0 by now. Not even an injury would have prevented him from showing up, wrestling, and winning.

I wish I could find another ***** match btw. Its always awesome watching a match and immediately thinking "this is 5 motherfucking stars". Haven't done that since WM 26. Only like, a year and a half ago, but seems longer.

Edit: Shit, totally forgot about Angle/Lesnar SS 03 being ***** for me . So that's 2 matches for Angle! And no, the SD 03 match isn't ***** for me. If it had a finish it would have been .


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Curse you and your ranking then for fooling me, NWO 2006 I'm guessing is the ***** match. Think the closest Angle match to ***** for me would be vs Austin Summerslam 2001. Honestly don't recall much of the Lesnar match bar being a massive Angle fan at the time and thinking he had no hope of winning..


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

Wrong again .

And my top 100 list wasn't just about ratings, hence a number of ***** matches not even being in my top 20. I'll put you out of your misery... the other ***** Angle match is Angle Vs Undertaker Vs Rock from Vengeance 2002 .


----------



## WOOLCOCK

You devious motherfucker. I never imagined you meant the triple threat when you ya know....didn't mention the freaking Rock :side:

I'm still bummed Noble vs Rey made about #264 or something like that, I'd have put it top 35


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

Well while WOULD I mention Rock? He ain't worth it .

You should also be pissed that nobody wanted it on the bonus discs either .


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Oh well, WCW poll looks promising. Think I'm gonna vote ridiculously high on one match in particular since I imagine the top 5 for everyone will look similar and a few matches will be locks for top 5 so this way one of my favourite matches has a chance of making between top 6-10


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

If the WWF/E Poll taught me anything, its that our top 5's, and hell even top 20's will be pretty fucking different with the exception of maybe 5 or so matches . I mean, who the fuck saw me putting Angle/Undertaker SD 03 as my third match?


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I would have put good money on Taker being the Lawler of your list and being a part of like 80% of your top 20 matches 

I'll probably rank 2 or 3 Flair/Steamboat matches very high and then rank the rest a little lower than they deserve to be if only to try and put a few matches I think would look great in the top 10 position instead, i.e Midnight Express vs Southern Boys or Rude vs Steamboat Ironman Match.


----------



## antoniomare007

McQueen said:


> Not enough talk about Bob Backlund, Terry Funk and Stan Hansen killing people via Lariat.


And Sgt. Slaughter being one of the best bumpers ever...fuck Snuka, Sarge did a dive from the top of the cage before and in a better match. And he had that bloody brawl with Patterson, and then perfected it against Shieky, and had an awesome feud with Backlund.

Yeah, this thread needs more Sarge love.


----------



## Yeah1993

Slaughter is so fucking great. He maybe the best ever bumper, yeah. I still think his Rumble elimination by Sid is my favourite ever.


----------



## McQueen

Slaughter is a guy I still need to see more of but LOVED his shit with BOB.


----------



## Yeah1993

The two 81 matches might be Backlunds best matches, actually.


----------



## Cactus

One thing that gets me that not one mention of Lou Thesz has made it here. I haven't seen fuck all from the guy, but I've heard he's meant to be one of the best. Maybe his stuff hasn't aged well or something.


----------



## Yeah1993

He'd turned 60 years old by the mid-1970s so there's really not much of his stuff availabe. He def. looked like he could go, though, from what I've seen. Rikidozan, despite being acknowledged as one of the absolute biggest icons in wrestling history (and "the Grandfather of Puroresu"), didn't seem like that good a wrestler but he had a couple of really good stuff with Thesz. Things liek that make me think how good Thesz's stuff was with better wrestlers.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Echo the love for Slaughter, his corner bump to the floor is one of my favourite bumps in history and he was just an incredible heel and face. Amazing to see how good he is when you never really thought of him as being much of a worker and then get blown away. Hell I thought he was the better part of both Backlund matches in 81, although Backlund came much closer to eclipsing him in the Cage match I thought.

As for Lou Thesz, I think as Yeah1993 said its just a matter of how much of his stuff is available. Anything I've seen on Youtube etc is more like a highlight reel showing some grappling sequences and breaking the match up into a highlight reel. Its hard to really nominate him or talk a lot about him when so little of his stuff has made tape, or been released into the mainstream world. Its the same with guys like El Satanico, from the little I've seen of him I'd put him up there with the very best ever...but his match catalogue I can name at this point may not even cover 10 matches. Hopefully the rumours of a Satanico comp will be realised once the Lucha 80s set comes out and he wows people with just how incredible he is.


----------



## Yeah1993

There's a good chunk of Satanico in a Wrestling KO thread in their download forum. Satanico's still going today (I think, anyway, I saw a match he had in March) so that helps footage being available.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Yeah I was really tempted to sign up once I heard they had footage of him as well as discuss a lot of shit with some of the people there. Think I know the March match you're on about, may have read about it in your blog and then watched it: IIRC its 30 minutes of great grappling and matwork with a couple of crap finishes.

Ohtani's Jacket's blog on Lucha has also been terrific in tracking down a lot of great stuff I haven't seen pimped anywhere else, think its his pimping of Satanico that got me into looking for some of his stuff.


----------



## natey2k4

Off the top of my head;

1. Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart (WM X)
2. Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon (WM X)
3. Dynamite Kid vs. Tiger Mask (Can't recall the date)
4. Paul London vs. AJ Styles (Night of Grudges ROH)
5. Edge & Christian vs. Hardys vs Dudleys (WM XVII)
6. Samoa Joe vs. AJ Styles vs. Chris Daniels (Unbreakable 2005)
7. Samoa Joe vs. AJ Styles vs. Chris Daniels (Turning Point 2009)
8. AJ Styles vs. Chris Daniels (Final Resolution)
9. Rey Mysterio vs. Psychosis (Bash at the Beach 1996)
10. Ultimo Dragon vs. Rey Mysterio (World War 3 1996) -- _Probably over-rated slightly, but it was the the first match to introduce me to this crazy style of wrestling._
11. Jimmy Rave vs. CM Punk (Third Year Anniversary Part 3 (ROH) 
12. Ric Flair & Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart & Randy Savage (Coliseum Video)
13. Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect (King of the Ring 1993)
14. Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart (Summerslam 1994)
15. Marty Jannetty vs. Shawn Michaels (Raw 1993) -- _Again, probably over-rated slightly but for the time given, I don't think you could ask for a better match._
16. Marty Jannetty vs. Kurt Angle (Smackdown 2004) -- _Probably because I didn't expect anything close to what we got._
17. Chris Benoit vs. Bret Hart (Owen Hart Tribute) -- _Emotion alone brings this up._
18. Marty Jannetty vs. Doink the Clown (RAW)
19. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H (WM XX)
20. Chris Jericho vs. Christian (WM XX)


----------



## Bubz

natey2k4 said:


> Off the top of my head;
> 
> 1. Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart (WM X)
> 2. Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon (WM X)
> 3. Dynamite Kid vs. Tiger Mask (Can't recall the date)
> 4. Paul London vs. AJ Styles (Night of Grudges ROH)
> 5. Edge & Christian vs. Hardys vs Dudleys (WM XVII)
> 6. Samoa Joe vs. AJ Styles vs. Chris Daniels (Unbreakable 2005)
> 7. Samoa Joe vs. AJ Styles vs. Chris Daniels (Turning Point 2009)
> 8. AJ Styles vs. Chris Daniels (Final Resolution)
> 9. Rey Mysterio vs. Psychosis (Bash at the Beach 1996)
> 10. Ultimo Dragon vs. Rey Mysterio (World War 3 1996) -- _Probably over-rated slightly, but it was the the first match to introduce me to this crazy style of wrestling._
> 11. Jimmy Rave vs. CM Punk (Third Year Anniversary Part 3 (ROH)
> 12. Ric Flair & Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart & Randy Savage (Coliseum Video)
> 13. Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect (King of the Ring 1993)
> 14. Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart (Summerslam 1994)
> 15. Marty Jannetty vs. Shawn Michaels (Raw 1993) -- _Again, probably over-rated slightly but for the time given, I don't think you could ask for a better match._
> 16. Marty Jannetty vs. Kurt Angle (Smackdown 2004) -- _Probably because I didn't expect anything close to what we got._
> 17. Chris Benoit vs. Bret Hart (Owen Hart Tribute) -- _Emotion alone brings this up._
> 18. Marty Jannetty vs. Doink the Clown (RAW)
> 19. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H (WM XX)
> *20. Chris Jericho vs. Christian (WM XX*)


Wasn't really expecting that, but...


----------



## natey2k4

bubz123 said:


> Wasn't really expecting that, but...


I heard there was a pretty bad botch during the match, but since I have only seen the DVD version, I didn't ever see the botch since they edited it out.

I thought more people would have a problem with the Doink the Clown vs. Marty Jannetty match on my list, lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

Jericho/Christian from WM XX is fucking awesome. Don't have it at *****, but pretty close at ****1/2 and the second best match for WM XX too.

And Marty/Doink 1 out of 3 falls is fucking awesome too. Definitely not ***** for me, but still great at ***3/4.

Out of your list I only have 2 of those matches at 5 stars personally lol .


----------



## natey2k4

KingCal said:


> Jericho/Christian from WM XX is fucking awesome. Don't have it at *****, but pretty close at ****1/2 and the second best match for WM XX too.
> 
> And Marty/Doink 1 out of 3 falls is fucking awesome too. Definitely not ***** for me, but still great at ***3/4.
> 
> Out of your list I only have 2 of those matches at 5 stars personally lol .


That's fine.  Everyone has different opinions, right? I'm sure, at the very least, every match I listed you have at probably at least ***, if not ***1/2. 

The reason I liked Marty/Doink so much is because Marty was such a great seller. It gets overlooked a lot. If you watch that again, pay attention to how closely Marty sells the leg injuries. I think Doink even forgot which leg he was working on during the match (or maybe he meant to go for the other leg?), but Marty somehow manages to sell the injuries perfectly to BOTH legs. It's just awesome. That type of wrestling is what I miss so, so much. So I'm sure I over-rated it but it just made me proud to be a fan of both guys. 

General wondering, which two matches did you have?

Any chance you could link me to your list? I don't feel like looking through 54 pages since I'm fairly new here, but if you have a link or something, I'd like to see it. 

I've seen you post before and I've always felt you're have a great taste in wrestling but are harsher than me. I usually rate my matches (from what I remember) about 1/2* more than you.

Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart from WMX is my favourite match ever. Unexpected finish, great story-telling, and just a pure wrestling classic, IMO. 

I'm sure I could probably add another 15-20 matches to the list, but I'd really have to go back and start keeping track of my ratings more often. 

London vs. Styles was my first taste of of an Indy Match, so I absolutely loved it. I've seen better matches now, but it's got a soft spot. 

Rave vs. Punk brought back so many old school memories, so I just fell in love with that match. Plus, Rave's gimmick is one of the best I've ever seen on the indy circuit.

Jannetty vs. Angle - I was expecting a 5-minute match with a couple of short hope spots for Jannetty. Instead, we got a near 20-minute match with plenty of nearfalls - and even though the finish was obvious, I remember actually buying into the fact that Jannetty could do it. The drama in the match was awesome.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

Out of the matches on your list I've seen (basically all of them aside from the couple of Indy ones lol), I'd have at *** or above... except for maybe DK vs TM and the Bret/Owen cage match .

Doink has a ton of really fun matches from 1993 before Matt Bourne got fired and they replaced him and turned the character face. Some pretty swank matches with Mr Perfect (which I think are overrated, but certainly far from being bad or anything lol) and some random matches with guys you wouldn't expect to have good/fun matches lol. Never realised the original Doink (aka Matt Bourne) was so good until I watched Raw 1993 a couple of years back.

My list (in order too, from best to "worst"):

The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - In Your House 18: Bad Blood 1997
Ric Flair Vs Barry Windham - Battle of the Belts II 1986
Ric Flair Vs Barry Windham - World Wide Wrestling 1987
Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Clash of the Champions VI 1989
Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Wrestle War 1989
The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania 26 2010
Nigel McGuinness Vs Bryan Danielson - Unified 2006
Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Chi Town Rumble 1989
Bret Hart Vs Owen Hart - WrestleMania X 1994
Steve Austin Vs Bret Hart - Survivor Series 1996
Steve Austin Vs Bret Hart - WrestleMania 13 1997
The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania 25 2009
Bret Hart Vs Mr Perfect - SummerSlam 1991
Royal Rumble Match 1992
Kurt Angle Vs Brock Lesnar - Summerslam 2003
The Undertaker Vs Kurt Angle Vs The Rock - Vengeance 2002
Bret Hart Vs Mr Perfect - King of the Ring 1993

Edit: Jannetty/Angle is a match I could really do with watching again. I remember it being pretty good at the time, and I think Marty either DID get a job out of it or was offered one or something, but then his drug habit showed up and WWE had to reconsider.


----------



## natey2k4

KingCal said:


> Out of the matches on your list I've seen (basically all of them aside from the couple of Indy ones lol), I'd have at *** or above... except for maybe DK vs TM and the Bret/Owen cage match .
> 
> Doink has a ton of really fun matches from 1993 before Matt Bourne got fired and they replaced him and turned the character face. Some pretty swank matches with Mr Perfect (which I think are overrated, but certainly far from being bad or anything lol) and some random matches with guys you wouldn't expect to have good/fun matches lol. Never realised the original Doink (aka Matt Bourne) was so good until I watched Raw 1993 a couple of years back.
> 
> My list (in order too, from best to "worst"):
> 
> The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - In Your House 18: Bad Blood 1997
> Ric Flair Vs Barry Windham - Battle of the Belts II 1986
> Ric Flair Vs Barry Windham - World Wide Wrestling 1987
> Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Clash of the Champions VI 1989
> Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Wrestle War 1989
> The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania 26 2010
> Nigel McGuinness Vs Bryan Danielson - Unified 2006
> Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Chi Town Rumble 1989
> Bret Hart Vs Owen Hart - WrestleMania X 1994
> Steve Austin Vs Bret Hart - Survivor Series 1996
> Steve Austin Vs Bret Hart - WrestleMania 13 1997
> The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania 25 2009
> Bret Hart Vs Mr Perfect - SummerSlam 1991
> Royal Rumble Match 1992
> Kurt Angle Vs Brock Lesnar - Summerslam 2003
> The Undertaker Vs Kurt Angle Vs The Rock - Vengeance 2002
> Bret Hart Vs Mr Perfect - King of the Ring 1993
> 
> Edit: Jannetty/Angle is a match I could really do with watching again. I remember it being pretty good at the time, and I think Marty either DID get a job out of it or was offered one or something, but then his drug habit showed up and WWE had to reconsider.


I love Bret/Perfect from Summerslam. The finish kills it for me though. ****3/4 just because of the fast tap out. I know now why it happened, but it still hurts it slightly to me.

Jannetty did get a contract from that match with Angle. He got a DUI (or had a DUI just before) and was released before he was brought onto TV.

Royal Rumble 1992 match is amazing, but then again I'm not sure if I've ever rated a Royal Rumble match under ****. I love that match. I remember as a kid, I used to rent Royal Rumble 1995 every weekend I'd go to my grandparents. 1995 is one of the worst, but as a kid, I loved it. So essentially I've loved every Royal Rumble (basically) since. I tend to enjoy when the Rumble gets full though, I hate when the ring has no one in it for long periods of time. 

Never watched the Windham/Flair matches. And I've never watched the Flair/Steamboat matches with full attention. Every time I've tried to watch Chi-Town Rumble, I get distracted. I really should watch it soon.

Austin vs. Hart from WM was amazing. I had it at ****3/4, but I'm sure I could give it ***** on any day. I've never watched the Survivor Series match.

Angle vs. Lesnar I never watched from Summerslam. Their Wrestlemania match was good though.

Never watched the three way. Surprised to see you rate it that highly over the WMX Triple Threat.

Never seen Nigel vs. Bryan, but I need too. That reminds me that I had the Wolfe/Angle match pretty high from Turning Point (or Final Resolution) at near *****. The second match was only a slightly bit lower.

Taker vs. Michaels at WM was overhyped to the moon before I saw it. I have it at ****1/2, but I have their second encounter which I watched live, at *****. Never seen the other one. The Triple H match this year was NOT anywhere near as good. I can't understand how some people gave that near *****.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

Loved the HHH/Undertaker WM match this year. ****3/4 from me. Wonderful storytelling which is one of the main aspects of pro wrestling I look for in a match, hence my love for the likes of the 1997 HIAC match which I don't think ANY match has ever come close to.

The Triple Threat is probably only really around ****, but fuck me if it isn't one of THE funnest matches in the history of existence for me . I could watch it on a loop for the rest of my life probably .

RR matches are usually always fucking fun. I look forward to that PPV more than WM every year, just because of the Rumble match. There have been some fucking terrible ones (95, 98, 99, 08) but for the most part they are consistently great imo. One of the first things I bought when I got my student loan for Uni was the RR Anthology box set . Twice. But only because they fucked up and sent me two. And charged me for both . Had to send it back .

Angle/Lesnar from SS is imo what their WM match SHOULD have been. Angle was about as healthy as a guy with a BROKEN FREAKIN' NECK could be, and Lesnar wasn't freaking out about the match having time taken from it... and didn't attempt to kill himself with a SSP lol.


----------



## natey2k4

KingCal said:


> Loved the HHH/Undertaker WM match this year. ****3/4 from me. Wonderful storytelling which is one of the main aspects of pro wrestling I look for in a match, hence my love for the likes of the 1997 HIAC match which I don't think ANY match has ever come close to.
> 
> The Triple Threat is probably only really around ****, but fuck me if it isn't one of THE funnest matches in the history of existence for me . I could watch it on a loop for the rest of my life probably .
> 
> RR matches are usually always fucking fun. I look forward to that PPV more than WM every year, just because of the Rumble match. There have been some fucking terrible ones (95, 98, 99, 08) but for the most part they are consistently great imo. One of the first things I bought when I got my student loan for Uni was the RR Anthology box set . Twice. But only because they fucked up and sent me two. And charged me for both . Had to send it back .
> 
> Angle/Lesnar from SS is imo what their WM match SHOULD have been. Angle was about as healthy as a guy with a BROKEN FREAKIN' NECK could be, and Lesnar wasn't freaking out about the match having time taken from it... and didn't attempt to kill himself with a SSP lol.


I still love the 1995 Rumble. Probably because it was the first I saw. Became a huge Michaels fan when I watched that. Loved the story of the match too (#1 and #2 lasting till the end). Loved Aldo Montoya lasting 10+ minutes.  I know it's one of the worst Rumbles, but I still enjoy it.. On the same note, it's hard for me not to like that Rumble either because even though its short, the rest of the card was pretty solid. Diesel/Bret was pretty good. And I have the Sparky Plugg/Kid vs. Tatanka/Bam Bam at ***3/4. Match surprised the fuck out of me. 

I just bought the Royal Rumble set about a week ago, brand new, off Amazon for $80 shipped.  Best purchase ever. I'm just waiting till I get can the Summerslam set for ~$100. My parents bought me the Wrestlemania set and I bought the two volumes of Survivor Series the moment I saw them. I truly miss Survivor Series matches. What a great way to extend feuds into the Royal Rumble. 

No joke, the HHH/Taker match put me to sleep. It was one of the better matches on the show, but I passed right out, lol. Only for like five minutes, but still. I re-watched it after and have it at ***1/4. I like it, but just don't think it's great. I can't even put my finger on exactly why it's not a **** match, but it just doesn't sit with me. Maybe I didn't buy the false finishes like I did in the Michaels/Taker match. I don't know.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

The 1995 PPV is awesome if you exclude the Rumble match. And yeah, that tag match being THAT good was a huge "WTF, where did THAT come from?" lol.

I HATED HHH/Taker when I watched it live. Didn't help that it was like, 3am in the morning (fucking UK times for live PPV's lol...) and my brother stayed over and watched it with me (I don't like my brother, so I wasn't having fun at all lol). Thought it was just a MOVES~! match, until I re-watched it the next day to review the entire event and saw the fucking awesomeness of it lol. Also didn't think much to HBK/Taker from WM 25 when I first saw it. But I was feeling ill that night, ate too much during the first part of the show :lmao. Yet strangely enough as soon as WM 26 was over I knew that I thought HBK/Undertaker was ***** and better than the previous year .

I too miss the Survivor Series matches, and yet, I've never seen most of the old ones lol. Haven't seen most of the PPV's until around... fuck, 2000 lol. Only seen the odd match here and there from the ones before it. Got the first 5 or so... maybe I should watch em. Saw like, a 40 minute 16 man one a while back though (think it was 8 tag teams on each team) and it was pretty damn awesome, especially considering it went on that long. If they have a match NEARLY as big as that at SS these days, you could bet your ass that half the guys would be eliminated within about 10 minutes lol.


----------



## Chismo

My *WWE* list:

Sgt. Slaughter vs Pat Patterson (MSG 1981, Hardcore Match)
Ric Flair vs Randy Savage (WM8)
Bret Hart vs Owen Hart (WM10)
Bret Hart vs Diesel (Survivor Series 1995)
The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels (HIAC) _*Teh Best WWE Match Ever*_
Triple H vs Cactus Jack (Royal Rumble 2000)
Kurt Angle vs Steve Austin (SummerSlam 2001)
Edge & Rey Mysterio vs Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit (No Mercy 2002)
Ric Flair vs Triple H (Taboo Tuesday 2005) _I'm probably the only one, lol_


----------



## Violent By Design

I don't really do the 5 star thing, but Flair vs HHH at Taboo Tuesday is in my top 100 matches of all time. Flair's greatest match in the WWE by far.

I don't think I've seen Slaughter vs Backlund, but I have seen some great Backlund matches.

Bob Backlund's stuff in UWF/NJPW is good. The best Backlund match was against Takada (UWF). He had a real good one against Stansen too, can't remember what promotion it was but it was Japanese.

The best WWF match that had Backlund was when he faced Playboy Buddy Rose. Don't remember the year, but it's about 10 minutes long.




Are you guys making a list some where? Saw someone talking about ranking WCW and WWE matches. If so, where at? 



In regards to Lou Thesz, as an in-ring competitor he is overrated. He like many other wrestlers who held a belt for a long time was a big politicians. Verne Gagne and Buddy Rogers were better in the ring than Thesz was.


----------



## Chismo

EDIT: nvm.


----------



## Bubz

I remember seeing one of the Awesome/Tanaka matches and thinking it was one of the best matches I had ever seen lol, maybe the Heatwave one.


----------



## Chismo

Short 'n' sweet matches.


----------



## bigbuxxx

i really enjoyed the tanaka/awesome/taz match at anarchy rulez 99. it was mostly awesome/tanaka but the atmosphere created by the title being vacant with some great wrestling put it up there for me. not 5* but a damn good match.


----------



## bigbuxxx

uploaded funks vs. abby/sheik on youtube from that MU link above.

Part 1
Part 2


----------



## McQueen

Cactus said:


> One thing that gets me that not one mention of Lou Thesz has made it here. I haven't seen fuck all from the guy, but I've heard he's meant to be one of the best. Maybe his stuff hasn't aged well or something.


You kinda answered your own question here. I doubt anyone on here has seen more than 2-3 of his matches. I know i've only seen 2 (one against Rikidozan, one against Chono when he was 70 years old or so). Its like how I think highly of stuff i've seen from a British little cunt by the name of Jim Breaks for mixing traditional World of Sport style wrestling with scum of the earth pussy heel tactics but i've only seen 4 or 5 matches from the guy. Can't call him an all time great because i've barely seen his stuff since it isn't readily available.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Motherfucking Jim Breaks.

The matches vs Adrian Street & Young David are real stand out matches. The handshake/slap spot he busts out never ceases to make me love him more.


----------



## SuperDuperSonic

Awesome vs. Tanaka. What does it say about a series when a casual fan watches and bitches about the lack of selling?


----------



## Chismo

> Awesome vs. Tanaka. What does it say about a series when a casual fan watches and bitches about the lack of selling?


You know, selling is not that simple and one dimensional.


----------



## Yeah1993

How so? I won't chime in as far as Awesome/Tanaka goes b/c I've seen no more than two of them (have no idea how many there are in the first place), but is there anything more to selling than "pretending to be hurt"?


----------



## Chismo

Not everyone sells the same way. Why should some young punk in his 20s sell like 50-year old Undertaker? Not that Tanaka and Awesome were in their 20s, I'm just giving an example.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

Would it come as any surprise to anyone that I DON'T like a single one of the Awesome/Tanaka matches?


----------



## RKing85

after thinking about this for the past 30 minutes, this is what I came up with off the top of my head:

*Flair/Steamboat - Clash of the Champions 6
*Flair/Steamboat - Wrestlewar 1989
*Bret Hart/Davey Boy - Summerslam 1992
*Razor/HBK - Wrestlemania 10
*Wild Pegasus/Great Sasuke - J Cup 94
*Bret Hart/Steve Austin - Wretlemania 13
*Misawa/Kobashi - All Japan 26th Anniversary
*TLC - Wrestlemania 17
*AJ Styles/Samoa Joe/Christopher Daniels - TNA Unbreakable 2005
*Bryan Danielson/KENTA - ROH Glory by Honor 5
*Nigel McGuinness/Bryan Danielson - ROH Unified
*Naruki Doi/Bryan Danielson - DG USA Untouchable
*Davey Richards/Eddie Edwards - ROH Best in the World 2011


----------



## Chismo

EDIT: nvm.


----------



## RKing85

damn it, meant Unified, not Rising Above for McGuinness/Danielson. Couldn't remember which one it was.


----------



## Bubz

I just rewatched both Angle/Austin matches from 2001, and I have to say I think both are awesome but neither on the 5 star level for me, but the SS match is closer, probably about ****1/2 - ****3/4, it just needed something more to give it the full marks.

I also need to say that it reminded me of how fucking phenomenal Steve Austin was, just an amazing pro wrestler. I also love that even though he was a heel around this time (before he started that sucking up to Vince thing) he still carried himself like an absolute bad ass, walking to the ring and in the ring and was never a chicken shit type of heel, just one that was an absolute bastard.


----------



## Cactus

Yeah. Austin is amazing. Easily the best 'face of the WWE' of all time. He doesn't get enough love from wrestling nerds and purists.


----------



## Bubz

Yeah I agree. The guy was fucking good in the ring, and could tell an amazing story aswell as play his character within a match to perfection. I haven't seen too many people I would consider to be a better pro wrestler than Austin if i'm being honest.


----------



## Yeah1993

After some consideration I think I've come to the conclusion that Austin's 2001 is the greatest in ring year any WWE wrestler has ever had.


----------



## antoniomare007

come on man, that was common knowledge


----------



## Yeah1993

I think a lot might prefer a Bret Hart or Shawn Michaels year to it, but yeah more people seem to think that than I originally thought.


----------



## antoniomare007

funny thing is that while Bret, Shawn and Austin had their best year, business always went downhill (in Austin's case, the Attitude Era boom was over after the heel turn and the InVasion PPV)

damn you gringos who don't appreciate good wrestling


----------



## Yeah1993

I'm Australian. Does that make me a ******? I sort of hope so. "******" is a pretty cool word.

uHhHh DIscussion....Austin was.....good. and stuff.


----------



## McQueen

I'm pretty sure ****** means foreigner or anyone non hispanic. I could be wrong though, don't know the literal translation.

And I saw your post at the otherplace and i'm stuggling to think of a better single year for a WWE guy than Austin's 2001 but I can't. Messed up thing was I got really sick of Austin and The Rock in early 2000 so stopped watching WWF until I heard Jericho was champion at the beginning of 2002 so I ended up missing Austin's epic run while it happened.


----------



## antoniomare007

lol, talk about bad timing.

btw, ****** = from the US. although it is true that sometimes it's also used when talking about anyone that speaks english.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Austin's 2001 is the best IMO. Finlay's 2006 is still my absolute favourite though, in a way I actually prefer him getting to work the midcard and regular tags/multiman matches instead of 25 minute main event matches. Something about him managing to be the BITW in 2006 whilst never getting above upper midcard level just speaks volumes about Finlay's potential and talent IMO.


----------



## antoniomare007

wouldn't call him the BITW in 06' (that's Danielson) but back then I was only able to see the international edition of SD!, where Finlay wasn't featured all the time, what are some of his standout matches that year besides the B***** one?


----------



## WOOLCOCK

2 Benoit matches on Smackdown, 05/05/06 and 24/11/06. A great match with Rey and then numerous tags/singles/multiman matches involving Taker, Regal, Matt Hardy, Londrick etc. Cal & Andy I think are much better at remembering his best stuff, I can only recall a lot of the people in the midcard he worked. Also the Benoit Judgement Day match is a legit MOTDC from WWE and most likely any company, I love it that much.

As for BITW, Danielson does have the better match catalogue(I do find the end of his run dragged a bit with him almost wrestling 40+ minutes because he could/they had to protect him due to injuries instead of the story calling for the match to go that distance) but the more I watched of Finlay in 2006 recently I just dug all his matches mainly for his performances and everything he did just looking awesome and fitting of his character. Should probably try and rewatch a lot more of Danielson's stuff throughout the year again but right now I'd say I'd enjoy Finlay more in ring and character wise even though Dragon was afforded more opportunities to have MOTYCs.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

Finlay Matches worth seeing from 2006 (even the ones below *** are good either for the time they got or his opponent etc):

Finlay Vs Chris Benoit - Judgment Day May 21st 2006 - ****1/4
Finlay Vs Chris Benoit - Smackdown November 24th 2006 - ****1/4
Finlay Vs Chris Benoit - King of the Ring Qualifying Match - Smackdown May 5th 2006 - ****1/4
Batista Vs Finlay Vs Bobby Lashley - Smackdown October 13th 2006 - ****
Batista Vs King Booker Vs Finlay - WHC - Smackdown December 1st 2006 - ****
The Undertaker & Kane Vs Finlay & King Booker - Smackdown December 22nd 2006 - ***3/4
Rey Mysterio Vs Finlay - Smackdown March 24th 2006 - ***3/4
Matt Hardy & Gunner Scott Vs Finlay & William Regal - Smackdown June 16th 2006 - ***3/4
Finlay Vs Mr Kennedy Vs Bobby Lashey - US Title - Smackdown September 1st 2006 - ***1/2
Bobby Lashley Vs Finlay - King of the Ring Semi Final Match - Smackdown May 12th 2006 - ***1/2
Rey Mysterio Vs Finlay - Smackdown September 8th 2006 - ***1/2
Finlay Vs William Regal - US Title - Great American Bash 2006 July 23rd - ***1/2
Finlay Vs Batista - Smackdown November 10th 2006 - ***1/2
Finlay Vs Bobby Lashley - US Title - Smackdown July 21st 2006 - ***1/2
Finlay Vs William Regal - US Title - Smackdown July 28th 2006 - ***1/2
King Booker Vs Batista Vs Finlay Vs Bobby Lashley - WHC - No Mercy October 8th 2006
Rey Mysterio, Chris Benoit & Bobby Lashley Vs Randy orton, JBL & Finlay - Smackdown February 24th 2006 - ***1/4
Bobby Lashley & Batista Vs Finlay & King Booker - Smackdown October 6th 2006 - ***1/4
Rey Mysterio Vs Finlay - Smackdown June 9th 2006 - ***
Bobby Lashley & Batista Vs Finlay & William Regal - Smackdown September 22nd 2006 - ***
Matt Hardy Vs Finlay - Smackdown January 20th 2006 - ***
Finlay & JBL Vs Chris Benoit & Bobby Lashley - Smackdown February 17th 2006 - ***
Bobby Lashley Vs Finlay - US Title - Smackdown August 18th 2006 - ***
Bobby Lashley Vs Finlay - Smackdown September 15th 2006 - ***
Batista Vs Finlay - Smackdown December 8th 2006 - ***
Bobby Lashley & Batista Vs King Booker & Finlay - Smackdown November 17th 2006 - ***
Finlay Vs John Cena - Smackdown December 15th 2006 - ***
Finlay & Booker T Vs Chris Benoit & Gunner Scott - Smackdown May 19th 2006 - **3/4
Chris Benoit Vs Finlay - US Title - Smackdown February 3rd 2006 - **3/4
Finlay Vs Bobby Lashley - Lumberjack Match - Smackdown March 17th 2006 - **3/4
Matt Hardy Vs Finlay - Smackdown June 30th 2006 - **1/2
Finlay Vs King Booker - Smackdown October 6th 2006 - **1/4


----------



## McQueen

Comp that shit Cal and send it to me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

I'm planning on releasing a Finlay comp at some point, since the GH one stops around mid 07 and still misses out a load of his 2006 stuff.

And I'm also planning a best of Raw 2006, SD 2006 and PPV 2006, which will obviously including lots of FINLAY (SD and PPV anyway lol).


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I've been trying to get his ass to put out a comprehensive Finlay in WWE comp for, like, a million years now.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

It might have been Cal who murmoured about maybe one day doing a Benoit/Regal/Finlay comp of their matches covering numerous promotions. I'd buy that in a second along with the Finlay comp.

Also Cal I promise I'll get to putting an order with you soon, .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

Andy3000 said:


> I've been trying to get his ass to put out a comprehensive Finlay in WWE comp for, like, a million years now.


I'll do it, I'll do it. Just need the funds to get hold of all the shows on disc that I would need .



Segunda Caida said:


> It might have been Cal who murmoured about maybe one day doing a Benoit/Regal/Finlay comp of their matches covering numerous promotions. I'd buy that in a second along with the Finlay comp.
> 
> Also Cal I promise I'll get to putting an order with you soon, .


I was thinking of doing a comp like that. Then I found out GH already did one . And yeah, I have it .


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

It was actually Bix that made that Finlay/Benoit/Regal set, but either way, it's a pretty great look at what those guys could do together.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

Andy3000 said:


> It was actually Bix that made that Finlay/Benoit/Regal set, but either way, it's a pretty great look at what those guys could do together.


I knew that :side:.


----------



## williambertram

I'd just like to thank everyone for taking the time to post these great matches. I'm in the process of watching all of them I can on youtube. Some I can't find on youtube like Joe vs. Punk, and Joe Vs. Kenta, so if you know of any other online resources where I might be able to watch these I'd appreciate your posting them. 

I'd also like to say that while I really appreciate Meltzer's rating system, and I'm definitely not claiming to know more about wrestling than Meltzer, but there are a lot of matches on here that are 5 stars in my book. One I really like is Tatsumi Fujinami & Takayuki Iizuka vs. The Steiners from Wrestle War '92. I'm sure that's on a few other lists as well.

Thanks again for all the great matches to watch!


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Check the megaposts part of this site, once you reach something like 25-50 posts you should be able to view most links that people post. Seabs's megapost and SuperduperSonic have a great archive of stuff covering US Indies, WWE, WCW, TNA, Japan, Memphis and Mid South etc. Dailymotion has a lot of stuff as well.

You can also request certain matches be uploaded in the requests section once you get enough posts, obviously it depends on how rare/accessible the match is but most people get their requests answered in good time.

I should be able to help with NJPW, AJPW, BattlARTS and other Japan links in the future if you can't find them in the media section though.


----------



## Chismo

Multimedia section on this forum. But you gotta reach 25 posts to get that option, bro.


----------



## bigbuxxx

here's punk/joe 2.


----------



## Fighter Daron

A new update on my list as I've just watched the Chop Battle between Kobashi and Sasaki and it's an absolute five stars match for me, what a fucking war!

*WWF/E: *
Stone Cold Steve Austin Vs Bret Hart - Wrestlemania XIII
Stone Cold Steve Austin Vs The Rock Vs Kurt Angle Vs Triple H Vs Rikishi Vs Undertaker - _Hell in a Cell_ - Armageddon 2000
Steve Austin Vs The Rock - Wrestlemania X-7
First TLC - Wrestlemania X-7
Team WWF Vs Team Alliance - WWF: Survivor Series 2001
The Rock Vs Hulk Hogan - WWF: Wrestlemania X8
Triple H vs Chris Jericho - _Hell in a Cell Match_ - WWE: Judgement Day 2002
Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels - _Unsanctioned Match_ - WWE: Summerslam 2002
Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels Vs Chris Jericho Vs Booker T Vs Kane Vs Rob Van Dam - _Elimination Chamber_ - Survivor Series 2002
Ric Flair Vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania XXIV
Shawn Michaels Vs Undertaker - Wrestlemania XXV
Shawn Michaels Vs Undertaker - Wrestlemania XXVI
John Cena Vs CM Punk - MITB 2011

*TNA*
Samoa Joe Vs Christopher Daniels Vs AJ Styles - Unbreakable 2005
Samoa Joe Vs Christopher Daniels Vs AJ Styles - Turning Point 2009

*ROH*
Low Ki vs Doug Williams vs Spanky vs Christopher Daniels - Crowning a Champion
Samoa Joe Vs CM Punk - World Title Classic
Samoa Joe Vs CM Punk - Joe Vs Punk II
ROH(Claudio Castagnoli, Delirious, Rocky Romero & Austin Aries) Vs Dragon Gate(CIMA, Dragon Kid, Ryo Saito & Yokosuka) - ROH: All Star Estravaganza 3
Kenta Kobashi Vs Samoa Joe - Joe Vs Kobashi
Bryan Danielson Vs KENTA - Glory By Honor V Night 2
Nigel McGuinness Vs Bryan Danielson - Unified

*PWG*
Bryan Danielson Vs Chris Hero - Guerre Sans Frontieres
¡Peligro Abejas! Vs Young Bucks Vs Cutler Brothers – _Guerrilla Warfare_ - PWG Seven

*CZW *
John Zandig Vs Sick Nick Mondo - _2 Out of 3 Falls Log Cabin Deathmatch_ - CZW: Tournament of Death II
Ian Rotten Vs Necro Butcher - _Fans Bring Weapons_ - CZW: Tournament of Death II

*NJPW*
Naoki Sano Vs Jushin Thunder Liger - 1-31-1990
Hiroshi Tanahashi Vs Hirooki Goto - Destruction 2007
Hiroshi Tanahashi Vs Satoshi Kojima - G1 Climax 2010 Final

*AJPW*
Jumbo Tsuruta Vs Genichiro Tenryu - 05/06/1989
Mitsuharu Misawa Vs Toshaki Kawada - 03/06/1994
Mitsuharu Misawa Vs Kenta Kobashi - 21/10/1997

*NOAH*
*Kensuke Sasaki Vs Kenta Kobashi - 18/07/2005*
Kensuke Sasaki Vs Go Shiozaki - 24/07/10

*Dragon Gate*
YAMATO Vs Naruki Doi - Compilation Gate 2010


----------



## Chismo

My *TNA* list:

AJ Styles vs. Christopher Daniels (Against All Odds 2005)
AJ Styles vs. Christopher Daniels vs. Samoa Joe (Unbreakable)
AJ Styles vs. Christopher Daniels (Bound For Glory 2005)
AJ Styles vs. Samoa Joe (Turning Point 2005)
AJ Styles vs. Christopher Daniels vs. Samoa Joe (Turning Point 2009)


----------



## Bubz

Man, TNA was good in 2005.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I don't have a single TNA match at ***** (largely because I hate the majority of their style of wrestling) but if I had to pick one match I'd never complain/argue about something thinking was worthy of such praise it would be Joe vs Styles, Turning Point 2005. Assuming that is the match I'm thinking of where Styles defends the code of the X division after Joe took out Daniels the prior month.


----------



## Bubz

Yeah thats the one. That is also the closest thing I have from TNA to 5*, great match. TNA was good in 2005 though, well at least a helluva lot better than the previous years up until this point.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

Aye, I don't have a TNA match at *****, but those 05 matches with Joe, AJ and Daniels are about as close as you get.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I remember Viva pimped the shit out of a Joe vs Daniels match from Impact, I want to say it was for the X Division title and may have been late 2005/early 2006 only because he mentioned the angle of Daniels wanting vengeance against Joe which would suggest this timeframe. Pretty sure he said it was his vote for greatest TNA match ever.

I really didn't like the Unbreakable three way the last time I saw it. Its fine for what it is but I don't really consider it an amazing triple threat and thought Taker/Rock/Angle or HHH/HBK/Benoit made the triple threat formula work much better. Still it isn't even close to some of the most pimped matches from TNA that I loathe.


----------



## Chismo

Joe/Daniels match from Impact (4/13/2006) is fucking awesome and the best Impact match ever, by far. The way Joe brutalized Daniels in a TENRYU/Vader/Finlay style is magnificent, and Daniels' comeback was perfect. And that finisher, oh boy... Also, the crowd was red hot. *****3/4*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

Anyone got a link to that Impact match then? Gonna have to watch it now .


----------



## WOOLCOCK

KingCal said:


> Anyone got a link to that Impact match then? Gonna have to watch it now .


http://www.megaupload.com/?d=63FCPIMV

Credit to SuperDuperSonic.


----------



## Chismo

Cal, watch and review it, damn it!


----------



## Bubz

That Joe/Daniels match is awesome (from what I remember), I might have to give it a download aswell.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

Might as well post this in here as well as the TNA thread:

Samoa Joe Vs Christopher Daniels - TNA Impact 13/04/2006

Not too pleased that the match starts in progress, with Joe smashing hit boot into the face of Daniels who is against the guard rail. Sure, they show highlights of what happened during the break or whatever, but its not the same. Ah well.

Daniels is bleeding like a pig (who apparently bleed like fuck), and Joe is strutting around like he's the baddest man alive, looking pleased with his work so far.

Joe isn't doing anything flashy here for the most part; he's just biting and ripping and tearing at the cut on Daniels' head, while Daniels refuses to give up and keeps trying to fight back. I miss this Joe . He even looks thin here lol, compared to now.

Daniels looks great any time he tries to come back, and Joe looks magnificent during the cut off spots too. Joe going from a Powerbomb to Boston crap to STF to crossface to... fuck knows what that last submission hold is lol... is totally fucking awesome. Occasionally jabbing at the cut while applying the submission holds is more of the awesome little things that hardly anyone does these days, and hell, didn't do much in 2006 either. More guys need to do that shit, and Joe sure as hell needs to be more like this now.

The big finishing stretch and Daniels comeback is tremendous. Daniels' offence is awesome, and Joe even looks great too as he's still being put over as a monster type wrestler by not going down even from 2 kicks to the head, and then still coming back on the offence after everything Daniels threw at him.

Finish is pretty fucking great too. A lot of the time guys fighting each other on the ropes can look really forced and shitty, but here it looked great.

So yeah, awesome match, especially for the time it gets on the air, and the fact probably half of it isn't shown due to damn commercial breaks. Would love to see a FULL version of this. Joe is an evil bastard trying to murder Daniels, and Daniels is the resilient fucker fighting for himself and his friend AJ after everything Joe has done to them, and for the honour of the X-Division after Joe dishonoured it by fucking everyone up on his rise to the top. Joe constantly going after the cut is something right out of the 80's (sucks that when I think of something like that in wrestling, its from 30 years ago...) and I fucking love it.

Rating: ****1/4


----------



## Clique

*Nick Bockwinkel vs. Curt Hennig - AWA Championship Wrestling 11/15/1986* is on my list. Every wrestling fan should see this match. It is a fine wrestling match with pristine execution, smart psychology and stellar long-term selling.


----------



## Chismo

Great review, Cal.


----------



## antoniomare007

it's been a couple of years since I watched those awesome Bock vs Hennig matches, maybe it's time for a rewatch.


----------



## Bubz

Just watched that Joe/Daniels match and everything Cal said is right on the money, i'd probably go with the same rating aswell, but without the commercial brake in the middle and the missing first few minutes, it would probably be higher. Joe was so fucking awesome in 05/06 and throughout some of 07 aswell, the guy was just a beast.

the other day I watched Go/Sasaki from NOAH last year, how I missed that I don't know, because it was fucking awesome. I thought about giving it the full 5, but wasn't sure, maybe it was the botch on the turnbuckle even though it didn't really detract from the match at all for me. I talked about it in the puro thread, but it was one of the best (if not the best) matches from last year.


----------



## Caponex75

It's a shame what TNA did to Joe. It's also a shame we never saw Joe vs KENTA as well.


----------



## Bubz

Yeah it really is. If you have a talent like Joe, don't fuck it up. I mean the guy was genuinely looking to become one of the best wrestlers in the world around 05/06, his title reign was way too late and then they go and shit all over him and his character with that nation of violence bollocks. You can tell he doesn't like bing there at all, but his match with Kaz at Destination X this year proves he can still be amazing, and then they book him on an enormous loosing streak this year, seriously fuck that company. Joe/KENTA would have been so awesome back when it should have happened.

I watched Go/Sasaki from last year, I don't know how or why I missed it, because it was amazing. easily one of if not the best match from last year, I'm not sure if I would give it 5 yet needs a rewatch, the last few minutes are too awesome to take in in one go. Something everyone should check out if they haven't already.


----------



## Caponex75

I gave the match a ****1/2 and have a review here(A little spoiler protected though): http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other-wrestling/485304-2010-motyc-thread-71.html#post8686651 The match was great and you know it is has great storytelling if you were seriously hoping for Go to win. The problem that hurt it for me is that the botch hurt it immensely for me. Usually botches can sometimes help a match out for me like Richards/Daniels but this was the opposite of that. Shiozaki was clearly suppose to be doing some awesome DDT or maybe a hurcanrana counter to Kensuke one arm powerbomb but it just turned dreadful especially with Kensuke landing on him. That being said, if that had not happened, it most likely would been at the border rating(****3/4) if not the full five. Most likely the border. The chopfest was glorious and Shiozaki putting himself up for the machine gun chops was up there with HBK basically saying "F&#% YOU" to Undertaker that year for me.


----------



## Bubz

Yeah, the botch would be the only reason keeping me from rating it at 5 which is pretty sad because those guys tore the house down and told a great story. Great review by the way, I'm pretty sure I remember reading that last year but never getting round to watching it lol.


----------



## Caponex75

Your no sell hurts my feelings. Speaking of great matches of 2010 that I wrote a biography on, what did you think of Richards vs. Hero? I think that is as close as a PWG match could get to a ***** star match if you ask me.


----------



## SuperDuperSonic

Davey vs. Hero may indeed be the greatest match in PWG history. I was surprised that I enjoyed it more than Danielson vs. Ki, Davey vs. Strong 2010, and MCMG vs. Dolphins.


----------



## topper1

Top 3 match from PWG for me along with Dragon vs Hero and Ki vs Hero. 

Could change I watched all right when I started watching again and was marking for sillyness.


----------



## TelkEvolon

I think my favorite PWG match is Danielson/Strong vs The Young Bucks at DDT4 2009.

That and Steen vs Super Dragon from Astonishing X-MAS.


----------



## smitlick

My Top 3 PWG Matches

- Nick Jackson, El Generico & Necro Butcher vs Roderick Strong, Davey Richards & Austin Aries vs Joey Ryan, Chuck Taylor & Kenny Omega - BOLA 08 Night 2 
- Bryan Danielson vs CIMA - DDT4 
- Low Ki vs Bryan Danielson - All Star Weekend VI Night 1


----------



## Baldwin.

Chris Jericho vs. Triple H from Raw in April 2000 for the WWF Championship is ***** for crowd reaction alone. They went fucking insane when Jericho 'won' the belt. The match itself isn't half bad either.


----------



## Chismo

> Joe/KENTA would have been so awesome back when it should have happened.


And Joe/KENSKAY, Joe/Akiyama, Joe/Takayama, Joe/Sugiura, Joe/Nakajima, Joe/Tanahashi, Joe/Bernard, Joe/NJPW Juniors. Joe as a freelancer in Japan is my wet dream.


----------



## Yeah1993

I'm not as big a Joe fan as a lot of people, but Joe/Takayama should have happened in 2004.


----------



## Cactus

*AJPW 8/31/1983*
The Funks vs Stan Hansen & Terry Gordy
_When you are getting drowned in streamers and getting cheered on by the often silent Japanese crowds, you know you are over. This is Terry Funk's original retirement match. They tease his involvement in the match, by building up a hot tag between Dory and Terry. When Terry gets tagged in the crowd erupts. Terry gets beat down pretty bad and he sells his leg perfectly. Another hot tag to Dory and carnage breaks out. Terry ninja's his way back into the match and hits a top rope sunset flip on Gordy for the win. Hansen and Gordy aren't finished yet. They beat down The Funks until the locker room comes out and stops Hansen and Gordy. A bloody Funk then cuts his infamous 'Forever' promo. The atmosphere, ring action and post match stuff gives this match the 5 star treatment._
*******


----------



## Fighter Daron

Caponex75 said:


> Usually botches can sometimes help a match out for me like Richards/Daniels but this was the opposite of that.


Really?, why that botch(I think the most pathetic botch ever) help the match?, I was going well, not great, but a good bout, but that bullshit fuck everything up.

And I think Hero/Danielson was the best match in PWG history. I was hoping for Segunda Caida to answer my post back on the Hero's discussion, but anyway, that match is wonderful. So far away from Richards Vs Hero that had a lot of flaws.


----------



## Bubz

I loved Richards/Hero, I think I had it rated at ****3/4, easily one of my favorite PWG matches along with Danielson/Hero.

And yeah, Joe facing most NOAH guys could have been great, I remember when he called out the NOAH guys in NYC, lastly he called out Misawa and the crowd went crazy. I was very dissapointed with the Joe/Misawa NOAH match tbh, probably the lack of crowd reaction. If that shit had happened in ROH it would have been awesome.


----------



## Fighter Daron

Puro fans took Joe as a comedian wrestler.


----------



## nailz_jaggzy

How on earth do you guys compile these? I have watched WAY too much wrestling to remember what the best matches were.


----------



## smitlick

nailz_jaggzy said:


> How on earth do you guys compile these? I have watched WAY too much wrestling to remember what the best matches were.


Keep record of such things....


----------



## Cactus

nailz_jaggzy said:


> How on earth do you guys compile these? I have watched WAY too much wrestling to remember what the best matches were.


I browsed this topic and picked the matches that I have at 5 stars and if I saw something that got me as a 5 star match, I'll add it. Not that hard.


----------



## Caponex75

Fighter Daron said:


> Really?, why that botch(I think the most pathetic botch ever) help the match?, I was going well, not great, but a good bout, but that bullshit fuck everything up.
> 
> And I think Hero/Danielson was the best match in PWG history. I was hoping for Segunda Caida to answer my post back on the Hero's discussion, but anyway, that match is wonderful. So far away from Richards Vs Hero that had a lot of flaws.


The reason I don't mind the botch that much was to how well Daniels covered it and if you think about it, it went with the story as well. The story being of course that everything was going Daniels way like getting in the illegal punch without getting caught, forcing the referee to agree on taking away Richards' rope break, and avoiding Richards getting a revenge death valley driver like Daniels had done to him in their last match. Everything was going his way and yet he still couldn't get the W. That made his post match reaction much better and I think helped reason for his heel turn instead of losing to the shooting star. Of course, I am the only one that feels that way though.


I really can't get behind Danielson/Hero as the best PWG match ever and I have it on DVD! The match is just to long, often find myself bored, and while I got the storytelling & everything, the match just does nothing for me. Hero threw about 20 elbows in that match and none of them got a bigger reaction then the three he used against Richards. Probably one of my least favorite Danielson farewell matches actually. I thought the match they had at Boston later in the same month(I think) was better. Richards/Hero had everything I could possibly want. A good build, great psychology, good selling, and a story that was played through out the match that was never forgotten. Can't tell you how much I get caught into the match.


----------



## Henry Hill

Got to add Austin vs Bret SS 96 to my list. Hadn't seen it in ages and I had forgotten how brilliant it was - barring the weird finish it's just a perfect match pitting an aggressive, disrespectful heel against a valiant and resourceful returning babyface. The intensity is on another level.


----------



## Cactus

This will topic will not die. 

*NWA Clash of the Champions IX: New Years Knockout (I Quit match)*
Ric Flair vs Terry Funk
_Again, like Terry Funk's Empty Arena match in Memphis against Jerry Lawler, this is a doozie to rate. I didn't give that match a rating because it was more of a angle than a match. However, this match their is just enough wrestling evolved to bring out the snowflakes. As their is a mic used in this, the two legends use a microphone to tell a story verbally, not just by wrestling. Funk beats down on Flair's back and reminds him of the plane crash he was in, years before. This is a straight-up brawl and the crowd eats it up. It's like an Attitude-era PPV main event in an NWA world. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the bookers who were responsible for the Attitude Era took inspiration from this classic match. Even to this day, it still holds up. _
*******


----------



## Cactus

Just rewatched Austin/HHH vs Benoit/Jericho from '01. Best straight-up tag match WWE has ever done.


----------



## Brye

Here's my list from the stuff I've seen. 

Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon - Summerslam '95
Bret Hart vs Steve Austin - WM 13
Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker - Badd Blood - HIAC
Steve Austin vs Triple H - No Way Out - 3 Stages Of Hell
Austin/Triple H vs Benoit/Jericho - 5/21/01
Chris Benoit vs Triple H vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania XX
John Cena vs Umaga - Royal Rumble '07 - Last Man Standing
Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair - Wrestlemania XXIV (I'm a little biased on this one, fucking love this match)
Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker - Wrestlemania XXVI
CM Punk vs John Cena - Money In The Bank '11

Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat - Clash Of The Champions - 2/3 falls

CM Punk vs Samoa Joe II - Punk vs Joe II
Cage Of Death - Death Before Dishonor IV
Bryan Danielson vs KENTA - Glory By Honor V Night 2


----------



## Fighter Daron

Cactus said:


> Just rewatched Austin/HHH vs Benoit/Jericho from '01. Best straight-up tag match WWE has ever done.


Was that a legit five stars?, I gotta watch it. Can you send me a link?


----------



## Cactus

Fighter Daron said:


> Was that a legit five stars?, I gotta watch it. Can you send me a link?


Me and a few others have it at 5 stars. Meltzer gave it ****3/4.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-SomfgOE0E


----------



## Henry Hill

Amazing match with four awesome workers. If Trips hadn't got injured I wonder if these clashes would have been a frequent occurrence throughout the year.


----------



## SuperDuperSonic

No, because Benoit was fucking up his already-broken neck and did the singles matches with Austin on only one good arm.

What a lack of HHH injury would have led to? An even shittier InVasion angle.


----------



## Henry Hill

SuperDuperSonic said:


> No, because Benoit was fucking up his already-broken neck and did the singles matches with Austin on only one good arm.
> 
> What a lack of HHH injury would have led to? An even shittier InVasion angle.


Is that even possible?


----------



## TelkEvolon

Cactus said:


> Yeah. I dissaprove with this topic dying. It's very helpful to new fans of puro, lucha and old school stuff. So yeah. 'nother bump.
> 
> Just rewatched Austin/HHH vs Benoit/Jericho from '01. Best straight-up tag match WWE has ever done.


Better than Edge/Mysterio vs Benoit/Angle?


----------



## SuperDuperSonic

Henry Hill said:


> Is that even possible?


Think about HHH in that piece of shit excuse of an inter-promotional feud, which was used to focus on already-established WWF stars (wrestlers and non-wrestlers) with some of the newer guys (RVD, Booker) getting crumbs in comparison.

Now a somewhat-healthy Benoit as part of the InVasion? Too sad to even think about what he would have been able to do to try solidifying it, although I'm sure he would have gotten one of the main titles, and that would have taken away the WM20 moment.


----------



## Cactus

TelkEvolon said:


> Better than Edge/Mysterio vs Benoit/Angle?


I can't answer that fairly. I saw the tag title match in 2001 for the first time and was blown away, so it's a nostalgic gem for me. I saw the No Mercy match in 2011 after hearing it's the greatest match ever and came out a little underwhelmed. A great match which I can see all the hype about but I found it hard to get into it at some points. It gets ****3/4 for me.


----------



## Goku

Cactus said:


> I can't answer that fairly. I saw the tag title match in 2001 for the first time and was blown away, so it's a nostalgic gem for me. I saw the No Mercy match in 2011 after hearing it's the greatest match ever and came out a little underwhelmed. A great match which I can see all the hype about but I found it hard to get into it at some points. It gets ****3/4 for me.


****1/4* max for that No Mercy tag. Might go 4 for the Powertrip match. Probably won't.


----------



## TelkEvolon

Man, we need a good match thread, one for stuff that wasn't just in 2011 or Japan.


----------



## Fighter Daron

Hohenheim of Light said:


> ****1/4* max for that No Mercy tag. Might go 4 for the Powertrip match. Probably won't.


GUUUUAT?

Three fucking snowflakes?, man, that's a sad criterium.


----------



## Goku

Okay.


----------



## antoniomare007

I always thought the SD! 2/3 falls match was better than the No Mercy Tag



TelkEvolon said:


> Man, we need a good match thread, one for stuff that wasn't just in 2011 or Japan.


well, the DVD/Match/Shows thread on the WWE section is used for pretty much everything besides indys and puro (unless McQueen decides to go off topic







) and this forum in general + the Indy thread is used to discuss indy matches. 

Having said that, I would love for this thread to be stickied


----------



## bigbuxxx

TelkEvolon said:


> Man, we need a good match thread, one for stuff that wasn't just in 2011 or Japan.


can't we start doing that here? like 4 1/2 and 4 3/4 matches. it needs to be bumped every once in a while now because people have exhausted their perfect matches.


----------



## Yeah1993

Agreed with Hohenheim on the No Mercy tag.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Haven't seen McGuiness vs. Aries from Rising Above 07 on here and I'm going to throw it in my 5* matches. Classic match and the fact that Nigel gets a concussion in the first 5 minutes of this match only adds to the drama here.


----------



## Chismo

Yes, the drama was top notch there. An amazing match.


----------



## Bubz

Are you guys talking about the match where Trips got injured? Great match but I only had it at ****.


----------



## bigbuxxx

that is the one.


----------



## WashingtonD

Stone Cold vs Bret Hart - submission match @ Wrestlemania
CM Punk vs. John Cena - money in the bank
Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels - ladder match @ No Mercy
John Cena vs. Randy Orton - Iron Man Match


----------



## Goku

NoSmarkChicks said:


> John Cena vs. Randy Orton - Iron Man Match


Can I ask for some justification on this?


----------



## Brye

I would love Punk/Aries from DBD III so much more if it wasn't for the no selling bit. Really a great match but that part kills me.


----------



## Bruce L

*All Japan Pro Wrestling*


• Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Mitsuharu Misawa — 6-8-1990


• Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue, & Masanobu Fuchi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Toshiaki Kawada, & Kenta Kobashi — 4-20-1991


• Doug Furnas & Dan Kroffat vs. Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi — 5-25-1992


• Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi, & Jun Akiyama vs. Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue, & Yoshinari Ogawa — 7-2-1993


• Stan Hansen vs. Kenta Kobashi — 7-29-1993


• Steve Williams vs. Kenta Kobashi — 8-31-1993


• Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue — 12-3-1993


• Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue — 5-21-1994


• Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada — 6-3-1994


• Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi — 1-19-1995


• Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs. Steve Williams & Johnny Ace — 3-4-1995


• Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue — 6-9-1995


• Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada — 7-24-1995


• Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi — 10-15-1995


• Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs. Steve Williams & Johnny Ace — 6-7-1996


• Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue — 12-6-1996


• Kenta Kobashi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa — 1-20-1997


• Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi — 10-21-1997


• Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi — 6-12-1998


• Kenta Kobashi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa — 10-31-1998


• Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada — 1-22-1999


• Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi — 6-11-1999


• Mitsuharu Misawa & Yoshinari Ogawa vs. Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama — 10-23-1999




*All Japan Women*


• Manami Toyota vs. Toshiyo Yamada — 8-15-1992


• Manami Toyota & Toshiyo Yamada vs. Dynamite Kansai & Mayumi Ozaki — 11-26-1992


• Kyoko Inoue & Takako Inoue vs. Mayumi Ozaki & Cutie Suzuki — 4-2-1993


• Manami Toyota & Toshiyo Yamada vs. Dynamite Kansai & Mayumi Ozaki — 4-11-1993


• Aja Kong vs. Manami Toyota — 11-20-1994




*Dragon Gate USA*


• Davey Richards vs. Shingo Takagi — 9-6-2009




*New Japan Pro Wrestling*


• Naoki Sano vs. Jushin "Thunder" Liger — 1-31-1990


• Wild Pegasus vs. The Great Sasuke — 4-16-1994


• Jushin "Thunder" Liger vs. Shinjiro Ohtani — 2-9-1997


• Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Hirooki Goto — 11-11-2007


• Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Kazuchika Okada — 4-7-2013


• Kazuchika Okada vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi — 10-14-2013


• Tetsuya Naito vs. Kenny Omega — 8-13-2016




*Pro Wrestling NOAH*


• Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi — 3-1-2003


• Kenta Kobashi vs. Jun Akiyama — 7-10-2004


• Naomichi Marufuji vs. KENTA — 10-29-2006




*Ring of Honor*


• A.J. Styles vs. Paul London — _Night of the Grudges_ (6-14-2003)


• Samoa Joe vs. C.M. Punk — _Joe vs. Punk II_ (10-16-2004)


• Samoa Joe vs. Kenta Kobashi — _Joe vs. Kobashi_ (10-1-2005)


• Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness — _Unified_ (8-12-2006)


• Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA — _Glory by Honor V_, Night 2 (9-16-2006)


• Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. The Motor City Machineguns — _Good Times, Great Memories_ (4-28-2007)


• Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness — _Driven_ (taped 6-9-2007)


• Tyler Black vs. Davey Richards — _Death Before Dishonor VIII_ (6-19-2010)




*Total Nonstop Action/Impact Wrestling*


• A.J. Styles vs. Samoa Joe vs. Christopher Daniels — _Unbreakable_ (9-11-2005)




*World Championship Wrestling*


• Ricky Steamboat vs. Ric Flair — _Clash of the Champions VI_ (4-2-1989)


• Ricky Steamboat vs. Ric Flair — _WrestleWar '89_ (5-7-1989)


• "Sting's Squadron" vs. The Dangerous Alliance — _WrestleWar '92_ (5-17-1992)


• Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio Jr. — _Halloween Havoc '97_ (10-26-1997)




*World Wrestling Federation/Entertainment*


• Randy Savage vs. Ricky Steamboat — _WrestleMania III_ (3-29-1987)


• Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart — _WrestleMania X_ (3-20-1994)


• Razor Ramon vs. Shawn Michaels — _WrestleMania X_ (3-20-1994)


• Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart — _SummerSlam '94_ (8-29-1994)


• Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels — _WrestleMania XII_ (3-31-1996)


• Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin — _WrestleMania XIII_ (3-23-1997)


• Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs. Edge & Rey Mysterio — _No Mercy_ (10-20-2002)


• Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit — _Royal Rumble 2003_ (1-19-2003)


• HHH vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Benoit — _WrestleMania XX_ (3-14-2004)


• The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels — _WrestleMania 25_ (4-5-2009)


• The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels — _WrestleMania 26_ (3-28-2010)


----------



## bigbuxxx

• Naomichi Marufuji vs. KENTA — 10-29-2006

i got this one between 4 and 4 1/2. i gave their 1/22/06 match 4 3/4. great matches.


----------



## Bubz

Which is the one were marufuji hits his chin on the guard rail off a moonsault? I remember watching that about 3 years ago and thinking it was the best match I'd ever seen lol. I was younger and stupider then, still pretty stupid.


----------



## Fighter Daron

Bubz said:


> Which is the one were marufuji hits his chin on the guard rail off a moonsault?



And breaking KENTA's nose, and yes, I think it was one of the funniest things I've ever seen, but not five stars.


----------



## TelkEvolon

I think I liked KENTA/Marufuji from 2004 the best.


----------



## antoniomare007

Bubz said:


> Which is the one were marufuji hits his chin on the guard rail off a moonsault? I remember watching that about 3 years ago and thinking it was the best match I'd ever seen lol. I was younger and stupider then, still pretty stupid.


that's the GHC title defense in 06'


----------



## Fighter Daron

antoniomare007 said:


> that's the GHC title defense in 06'


Yeah, it is.


----------



## Fighter Daron

I'm searching for new candidates:

*AJPW: 20/04/91:* Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue & Fuchi Vs Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada & Kenta Kobashi:
Except Fuchi(I don't know who he is), we have the main five wrestlers of 90's All Japan, therefore this can't be a bad match by any means. As Ditch said, someone who I trust in what watching wrestling is all about, this is the best 6 Man Tag in history, something big enough, though I'm not too interested in this type of fights(6 Man Tags), but if I don't like the best in history, I won't like any other. Watching everyone, you can see who the youngers are. Taue and Kobashi start things off, but Akira slaps Kawada on the face and makes him fall to the floor. Kobashi tries to keep in control, but Taue floors him with a lariat and another for Kawada! Taue tags on Fuchi, who is very skinny. Buah, Jumbo and Misawa enter the match and crowd is about to exploit. The crowd answers Jumno like I've seen counted times, he rises the arm and the fans cheer, unbelievable.

Taue hits Kawada every time he wants, it's notorious that they had personal issues to resolve and, in one moment, Kobashi has Taue in a Fujiwara Armbar and Kawada enters to brutalise Taue under a great pop from the crowd. They start to blow each other until Kawada floors Akira and begin to hit some headbutts, the other four wreslters have to enter to split them because the referee can't do it and the crowd is bananas for Kawada, at the end Taue is destroyed and Misawa tags in. KKawada enters again under a good pop, but Akira makes a comeback and tags on Fuchi, who throws Kawada to ringside to let Jumbo piledrive him. Taue is in again and keeps Toshiaki under control until him and Fuchi do a Spike Piledriver in ringside to Kawada. Kobashi tags in and it's a house of fire, he has a good athleticism, he can move so agile and delivers good Dropkicks, compared to can't walk twenty years after is impactful.

It's incredible to see how the crowd answer every count, more or less credible, I've never seen such a thing like this. Fuchi begins to punish Kobashi's leg with a great attitude, he's a veteran and is tired of this disrespect, he wants to end the match right now. They isolate Kobashi dor about ten minutes punishing his leg and you can feel Kobashi's pain and want him to make the tag. Finally, Kawada can tags in under the biggest pop up to this moment. Taue manages to kick out of the Tiger Driver and the final sequence is about to start. Fuchi cut a count after Kobashi's Moonsault Press, but between Kenta and Kawada they manage to leave alone Misawa with Taue, Misawa does the tiger suplex and it's all said and done. 

Ok, it really was an epic match, but it lasted fifty minutes, which have left me exhausted, and even knowing that seeing a match with this length without boring points it's difficult, I have to say that after all I've read about this match I'm a bit disappointed, it has to be my expectatives' fault but I think the end could be more epic and all the time they spend on punishing the leg went nowhere. Well, historical bout, like I said earlier.

Rating: ****1/2C


----------



## Yeah1993

I prefer the 22/5/92 six man (with the same six guys) to that, but I seem to be literally the only one and that would def. be #2 for 3-on-3 tags. Actually the CMLL minis tag from 97 is probably about as good as well.


----------



## Fighter Daron

Yeah1993 said:


> I prefer the 22/5/92 six man (with the same six guys) to that, but I seem to be literally the only one and that would def. be #2 for 3-on-3 tags. Actually the CMLL minis tag from 97 is probably about as good as well.


I gotta catch that match, maybe I prefer it like you. Thanks.


----------



## Cactus

New match to add to the list. Need some new candidates? Look no further. 





*AJW 12/06/1993*
Dynamite Kansai & Mayumi Ozaki vs Manami Toyota & Toshiyo Yamada
_As soon as the bell goes, Yamada and Toyota double team Ozaki. ToYamda dominate the match until Toyota gets caught up in some of Dynamite's hard kicks. Order is restored in the match, with all illegal women going to their respective corners. Toyota then does what she's best at; bending in humanly impossible positions. Toyota is freakishly talented like that. The heel team is established when Dynamite and Ozaki cheat to keep their opponents down. It backfires on them soon as ToYamda does the exact same spot they were doing to cheat. This creates bedlam in the match and this match has gone all Texas Tornado style. So many near-falls and sick spots in this match. Easily the best women's match I have seen. _
*******


----------



## Fighter Daron

I think I've downloaded it. In fact, I downloaded 3 Joshi matches that are well rated.


----------



## TimesBlue

Haven't really been watching wrestling all that long, but apparently I need to post 25 things to get to some of the download links so...

I don't consider most of these 5 star matches but their top tier anyways.

WWE
Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle at Royal Rumble 2003
Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels at No Mercy 2008

ROH
CM Punk vs Samoa Joe at Joe vs Punk II
Kenta Kobashi vs Samoa Joe at Joe vs Kobashi
Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness at Weekend of Champions Night 2 2006

WCW
Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat at Clash of the Champions 6
Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio Jr. at Halloween Havoc 1997

AJPW
Genichiro Tenryu vs Jumbo Tsuruta 06/05/1989
Kenta Kobashi vs Steve Williams 08/31/1993

NJPW
The Great Sasuke vs Wild Pegasus at Super J Cup 1994

Joshi
Team AJW vs Team JWP from 07/31/93.


----------



## starship.paint

I just watched Michaels vs Undertaker HIAC 1997 and I'm wondering how it's rated so highly. Not even **** in my opinion. It was slow, plodding, I didn't get the drama, zero nearfalls, Kane interference, Taker totally dominated the first third of the match.... sure it had Michaels dropping from the side of the cage... but other than that? Maybe HIAC matches aren't for me...


----------



## bigbuxxx

I've always wondered how a match that ends like that gets *****. I've never seen the match though so I can't pass too much judgement.


----------



## Yeah1993

The finish is excellent.


----------



## Cactus

I see why it's liked so much. Both men played their characters perfectly and how they got out of the cell was pure genius, but I felt that HBK's beating was far too one sided and it stopped the match from clicking with me. Brilliant match though, I have it at ****1/2.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

Obviously everyone has their own opinions on things, but here is an explanation as to why *I* consider it not only ***** but the single greatest wrestling match ever:



Spoiler: long arse review of GOAT, and not a single tongue smiley to be found!



*The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - In Your House 18: Badd Blood 1997*

Here we go! The first ever Hell in a Cell match. The Undertaker, fighting for revenge. Shawn Michaels, fighting to survive. Also, something that is often forgotten about this match, the #1 contendership for the WWF Championship at Survivor Series is on the line too!

Before the match starts, we see referee Earl Hebner padlock the cell door shut, as Shawn pleads with him to let him out. No chance Shawn. You danced with the devil, and now you are about to get burnt!

With the door locked, the match can begin. HBK circles the ring, as The Undertaker slowly stalks his prey. After everything Shawn has done to him over the last couple of months, The Undertaker wants to put Shawn through a lot of pain, and is going to take his time doing it. He sees no need to rush, no need to run after Shawn, because unlike Ground Zero, he has nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, and no one to save him.

After playing a bit of cat and mouse, The Undertaker catches up to Shawn in the ring, and here we go! Nothing fancy, just ‘Taker grabbing Shawn by the back of his head, and ramming him into numerous turnbuckles. Shawn sells them like he just hit concrete, which some people would state he is overselling, but personally I loved it, and felt it made The Undertaker seem like a vicious powerful monster, which WWF were really turning him into at the time.

Shawn takes a beating for a couple of minutes, with ‘Taker working over the arm, hitting Old School, and even going for a cover at one point. Was The Undertaker trying to win? No, I don’t think he was. He gave Shawn a beating a month ago at Ground Zero, and Shawn never gave up, so he knew it would take more than what he had done so far to put HBK away. So why go for a cover? Because he can. He is showing Shawn that HE is in control, not Shawn. Also, kicking out of a pin attempt with a 300+ pounder on top of you wastes energy, and just helps The Undertaker more. A question some of you may be thinking is “why did Shawn kick out?”. Good question, because let’s face it, if Shawn didn’t kick out, the match would be over and he would escape the possibility of worse pain. Going back to what I said earlier, this match is for the #1 contendership. Shawn, like everyone in the WWF, wants the WWF Championship. Winning this match will place him in a title match, where he is one step closer to being champion once again. Then there is the fact Shawn is an arrogant heel, and beating The Undertaker will feed his ego, and give him bragging rights forever more.

The Undertaker decides to step things up a bit, as he grabs Shawn by the throat, seemingly going for a Chokeslam! Shawn senses this, and desperately fights his way out, sending ‘Taker into the corner. He mounts him, and begins to punch ‘Taker in the head. The Undertaker throws Shawn off, and he flies half way across the ring, again perhaps overselling, but IMO putting The Undertaker over even more. Shawn is a resilient man though, and he quickly gets to his feet and charges over into the corner to mount the Dead Man once again.

Every time Shawn attempts any offence, The Undertaker just shrugs it off and continues his epic assault on the “Sexy Boy”. The fight goes to the outside, and things are about to get brutal. ‘Taker imposes his will on Shawn, using his size and power along with the deadly cell walls to inflict more pain and damage. A couple of spots I always enjoy are when The Undertaker picks up Shawn, then smashes him back first into the ring post, turns around and smashes him back first into the corner of the cell, turns around again and smashes him in the ring post once again, then turns around one last time to send him back first into the corner of the cell. The other is when ‘Taker goes for a powerbomb, but Shawn seemingly reverses it, punching The Undertaker repeatedly in the face, only for The Undertaker to turn around and repeatedly smash Shawn into the corner of the cell again! When Shawn drops to the floor, you can see the marks on his back left by the cell, showing you that he really did hit the cell, and he hit it hard.

The underlying story of this match continues, with Shawn using the cell to attempt an escape from the pain and destruction The Undertaker has on his mind. He tries his best to climb up the cell wall to get away, but The Undertaker is tall enough to reach up and drag Shawn back down, back to hell.

Again the cell comes into play in this match, this time providing Shawn with an opening he so desperately needed. ‘Taker whips Shawn into one of the cell walls, then comes running at him, only to smash face first into the cell himself! I’m unsure if it was Shawn being able to dodge the attack, of if the sheer force of The Undertaker’s Irish Whip caused Michaels to bounce off and dodge the attack, but either way it created an opening, and HBK took it!

Just as Shawn appears to have the advantage, The Undertaker fights back. But as quickly as he re-gained control, he loses it! Shawn knocks The Undertaker off the apron, and sends him into the cell, then follows it up with a suicide dive, again driving The Undertaker into the cell! He isn’t giving ‘Taker time to recover, as he climbs the cell once again, this time to drop an elbow! Shawn is looking strong in this match now. He has used his speed, quickness and high flying ability to gain control, and is now using dirty tactics to keep that control. One of my all time favourite spots (not just from this match, but in general) right here, as Shawn hits a Piledriver to The Undertaker, ON THE STEEL STEPS! It makes one hell of a sound, and just looks incredible.

But even after all of that, The Undertaker crawls back into the ring. Again, this is putting over The Undertaker as an unstoppable monster, while at the same time, showing how resilient and CREDIBLE Shawn Michaels is when he is in the ring with the bigger, stronger opponent. Shawn doesn’t like the fact The Undertaker is still coming after him, so he pulls out a steel chair! This epic feud all began with a steel chair shot, and Shawn hopes to end it with one. I say one, but Shawn hits ‘Taker twice for good measure, and makes the cover! 1…2… NO! The Undertaker is not going out like that again. He still needs to extract his revenge on Shawn, and a steel chair isn’t going to do it this time.

The match starts to change from this moment on, as The Undertaker back body drops Shawn over the ropes, and onto a camera man. Shawn begins to beat the hell out of the camera man, laying him out on the floor. Why did he do it? I believe because he knew it would force the referee to open the door for EMT’s to attend to the guy, and the open door would allow Shawn to escape.

Until then though, Shawn must keep The Undertaker at bay. HUGE elbow drop from the top, followed by Sweet Chin Music! While all of this is happening, the door has been opened too! This is the part where I now feel the door being opened was a contingency plan, IF his superkick was not enough to put down The Undertaker. After all, what would be better than pinning The Undertaker in this match, instead of running away?

Of course, things don’t quite work out for HBK, as The Undertaker sits right up from Sweet Chin Music! Shawn is shocked, and makes a run for the door before it’s closed again! The Undertaker follows him out and catches him, sending him into the cell wall on numerous occasions, and busting him open too!

Shawn is lucky once again to find a small opening, but what is he going to do with it now? Inside the cell, he was unable to put the Dead Man away with his finisher. Outside of the cell, he was still unable to get away from the monstrous beast. The only thing left, if for him to CLIMB to the top of the cell! Unfortunately for Shawn, The Undertaker, even at 330lbs, near 7 feet tall, is able to follow him up there too!

Both men are now on top of the cell, and Shawn attempts a Piledriver up there, but instead gets a back body drop onto the steel! If that wasn’t bad enough, The Undertaker lifts him over his head, and slams him from over 7 feet in the air to the steel! Right hand now by The Undertaker, and Shawn nearly falls off the edge! He holds on, while The Undertaker has something sick on his mind. He stomps on one hand, he stomps on the other hand, and…

“Incoming!”

Shawn Michaels has nothing to hold on to, and falls back from halfway up the cell, through the announcer’s table! It crashes under the weight, and Shawn is a bloody mess on the concrete floor! It’s not over yet though, as The Undertaker climbs down, and slams him onto the floor!

While the majority of this match has been about The Undertaker being an unstoppable, almost un-human DESTRUCTION MACHINE, it’s also all about Shawn showing off just how damn resilient he is. After everything The Undertaker has done to him, he is STILL able to get up, and following the story of the match, does his best to get away from The Undertaker.

The Dead Man catches up to him once again, and throws him back into the cell, and the referee padlocks it shut one more time! Shawn is bleeding even more it seems, as it is flowing from the head of the Heart Break Kid.

The Undertaker has complete control now. He senses the time is right to put away the man who cost him the title, and starts it all off with a Chokeslam from the ropes! WOW! That isn’t enough though, as ‘Taker goes to the outside, and brings in a steel chair! As I’ve said before, this feud started with a chair shot, and The Undertaker wants it to end the same way. SICK chair shot to the bloodied head of Shawn Michaels, and payback is a BITCH! Undertaker signals that the end is here, but the lights go out, and we hear the eerie music of the man we discover to be… KANE!

Kane RIPS open the cell door, takes out the referee, and then stands face to face with his brother The Undertaker. He raises his arms, then brings them down to release fire from all 4 corners, just like The Undertaker has been known to do! The Undertaker is distracted, allowing Kane to hit a Tombstone!!!

Paul Bearer wakes the referee up, Shawn raises his head from the pool of blood he was lying in, and covers the Dead Man! A slow count, but The Undertaker is OUT of it. Shawn Michaels has WON!

Holy Shit! Every time I watch this match, I love it more and more. I love everything about it. From the way they build off the Ground Zero match with Shawn trying his best to simply get away, to the epic debut of Kane, which gives Shawn the big win, making him more credible going into the Survivor Series to fight for the title, while at the same time keeping The Undertaker credible from this loss, and further building The Undertaker/Kane feud that had been slowly boiling for months now.

People have been talking about Hell in a Cell matches for years, comparing them, ranking them, praising them and dissing them. I’ve seen people make excellent points as to why another cell match is more brutal, or why another cell match has more action, or why another cell match has better storytelling ect ect. That’s all good, people have different opinions, and that’s what makes us individuals. However, I do disagree with their opinions. I strongly believe that no other Hell in a Cell match has better storytelling, action, or even brutality. Sure, it might not be as straight up brutal as Brock Lesnar/The Undertaker, but it doesn’t have to be IMO. The fact that it’s built around one man just destroying the other makes it brutal to me. Then the blade job from Shawn, the fall from the cell, and the puddle of blood in the ring where Shawn is makes it just as brutal to me. It is only one of two cell matches that combines those three factors into the match (the second being The Undertaker Vs Edge, SummerSlam 2008), instead of just using two of the three, or in some cases, one.

This was the first ever Hell in a Cell match. I strongly believe that is has never been matched, and probably never will. It set the standard, and is the measuring stick not only for Hell in a Cell matches, but every other gimmick match too IMO. It shows perfectly how to combine storytelling, action and brutality into a single match, as well as how you put over both men involved, and even put over a completely new wrestler that has never been seen before the match (Kane). This was the first ever Hell in a Cell match, and I strongly believe it is the GREATEST MATCH OF ALL TIME.

*Rating: ******


----------



## McQueen

I dislike Michaels ridiculous pinball selling in parts of the first HiaC but other than that personal annoyance thats maybe the 2nd best WWF/E match ever.


----------



## Chismo

starship.paint said:


> I didn't get the drama


Well, I pity you.


----------



## TelkEvolon

ANY match when typed up can be made to seem like the greatest match ever.

Most of the time the typed up matches sounds way better than the actual things the happen.

Especially when instead of it being factual analysis, you type it up as a story book adding moments, thoughts and feeling that don't exist and are just there to hook the reader in.

Fiction.


_"Shawn takes a fall from the Cell"_ turns into _"The Undertaker, unable to keep HBK down knows he has to do something big, something that may be pushing it to far, but HBK has left him with no other choice. As Shawn cluches with everything he has, trying to prove the world wrong, that he is not just a pretty boy, that he can take everything anyone has and them some, now is his real chance to prove that as he goes crashing down into the depths of hell. The Undertaker dareing him to rise again."_


----------



## starship.paint

thanks for sharing KingCal.



TelkEvolon said:


> ANY match when typed up can be made to seem like the greatest match ever.
> 
> Most of the time the typed up matches sounds way better than the actual things the happen.
> 
> Especially when instead of it being factual analysis, you type it up as a story book adding moments, thoughts and feeling that don't exist and are just there to hook the reader in.
> 
> Fiction.
> 
> 
> _"Shawn takes a fall from the Cell"_ turns into _"The Undertaker, unable to keep HBK down knows he has to do something big, something that may be pushing it to far, but HBK has left him with no other choice. As Shawn cluches with everything he has, trying to prove the world wrong, that he is not just a pretty boy, that he can take everything anyone has and them some, now is his real chance to prove that as he goes crashing down into the depths of hell. The Undertaker dareing him to rise again."_


yeah, I agree. It just depends on your mindset I guess. If you're emotionally invested, you think of everything that come to your mind to explain every single move that the wrestlers make, making the match all the more awesome in your mind. Thing is, for some reason I wasn't emotionally invested, so I didn't "see" everything KingCal saw.

I just saw a slow first portion, Taker beating Michaels up for quite some time, going so far as to bash him into the cage walls and ringpost, then one time Michaels sidesteps and Taker runs into the cage, and Michaels suddenly rejuvenated despite the long beatdown jumps on Taker and pummels him on the floor, and Taker can't seem to fend him off despite the fact that he took one single run into the cage and Michaels has been taking a huge beatdown. 

Then Michaels in control, good cage elbow drop and sick steel steps piledriver, then he uses a chair, but of course it's not going to end with two steel chairs to the back. Then Michaels falls on a cameraman, and... beats him up? Funnily enough the fake cameraman isn't wearing the same black stuff the real cameraman are using. Meanwhile the Undertaker is nowhere to be found as Michaels bullies the cameraman. Did I think Michaels did that for the cage door to be opened? Well... I didn't think of that during the match. 

Still, once the cage door was opened and the wrestlers left, that kind of defeated the entire purpose of the cage. And - where was HHH/Chyna? I thought I saw them around during the entrance. Surely they would have helped Michaels out? And Michaels escapes, and is still getting beaten up. He runs and he gets beats up, he climbs on top of the cage and he gets beats up, he falls off the cage onto a table. Ouch. I would have preferred Michaels superkicking Taker off the cage once Taker climbed up, but oh well. And then Michaels gets thrown around onto more tables. And then they go back in, and he's beaten up more - I seem to have blinked and missed the chokeslam spot here - then steel chair to the head, ouch. 

Then time for the finish - boom! It's Kane! How do the announcers know who Kane is, anyway? Undertaker being frightened by the pyro and turning is pretty funny when you consider that he could see the pyro in front of him, why did he need to look behind him? Tombstone! Michaels crawls (so s-l-o-w-ly! he should have lay closer to Taker) over, drapes an arm, but Taker is dead, Michaels wins.

Umm.... I guess I'd rate it... hmm... ***1/2

and I just watched another match...




Segunda Caida said:


> Yeah I think the Volk Han vs Tamura match is a final or some tournament, its their second match. And its on youtube.


wow what can I say this was bloody awesome. Now this was a match I was emotionally invested in. The craziest submissions, blocks and counters I've ever seen and Tamura's kicking led to a "nearfall" near the end of the match. They made every submission look very legit and dangerous, seemed like the match could end any time. Only thing is - is this even scripted wrestling? Or is it MMA?


----------



## Cactus

The announcers knew it was Kane because Paul Bearer was bragging about how Kane is still alive and wants revenge. Makes sense really.

But yeah, HHH/Chyna not interfering when the door was open made no sense.


----------



## Yeah1993

Han/Tamura was a work and not MMA.


----------



## Fighter Daron

Yeah1993 said:


> Han/Tamura was a work and not MMA.


Shoot style.


----------



## Yeah1993

Yeah I know but if I had said "shoot style" the guy probably wouldn't have known it was a work.


----------



## Cactus

I really can't get into shoot style. I just find it a tad boring. That being said, I don't mind a short 10 minutes Battlarts match now and then. Oh well, to each their own.


----------



## Fighter Daron

Cactus said:


> I really can't get into shoot style. I just find it a tad boring.


It happens to me too.


----------



## asdf0501

Come on, seeing Han is a thing of beauty


----------



## starship.paint

Fighter Daron said:


> Shoot style.


could you explain this to me?


----------



## Cactus

Shoot style is a scripted MMA fight. It was really popular before real MMA came around and then it died down.


----------



## starship.paint

Cactus said:


> Shoot style is a scripted MMA fight. It was really popular before real MMA came around and then it died down.


ah thanks. I want moar shoot style five star stuff! Care to recommend?


----------



## Cactus

starship.paint said:


> ah thanks. I want moar shoot style five star stuff! Care to recommend?


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6e7ws_yuki-ishikawa-vs-carl-greco-battlar_sport

Segunda Caida seems to flip his shit over this match. I haven't seen it but he said it's the best match he's ever seen. That must mean something because he's a major wrestling freak. He knows his shit, so I reckon you'll love it. I on the other hand, ...got bored after 5 minutes though.


----------



## Bubz

I'm in the camp that can't really get into Shoot Style matches.


----------



## Yeah1993

starship.paint said:


> ah thanks. I want moar shoot style five star stuff! Care to recommend?


These are some of my favourite shoot style stuff. Def. all worth checking.

-Yoshiaki Fujiwara v Super Tiger (aka Satoru Sayama the original Tiger Mask- who was stupidly better here than he was *as* Tiger Mask) (UWF 5/12/84)
-Masakatsu Funaki v Yoji Anjo (UWF 14/6/89)
-Volk Han v Andrei Kopylov (RINGS 16/7/92)
-Volk Han v Mitsuya Nagai (RINGS 24/4/93)
-Volk Han v Kiyoshi Tamura (RINGS 25/9/96, 22/1/97, 26/9/97) (None of these go over twelve minutes IIRC, but the last two are pretty much a couple of the best matches ever)
-Yuki Ishikawa v Alexander Otsuka (BattlARTS 28/2/97) (Really ridiculous for only ten minutes)
-Kiyoshi Tamura v Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (RINGS 27/6/98) (Last time I watched this I thought it was '98 MOTY)
-Kiyoshi Tamura v Yoshihisa Yamamoto (RINGS 21/9/98)
-Yuki Ishikawa v Daisuke Ikeda (BattlARTS 26/8/99) (99 MOTY)
-Yuki Ishikawa v Daisuke Ikeda (FUTEN 24/4/05)
-Yuki Ishikawa/Alexander Otsuka/Munenori Sawa v Daisuke Ikeda/Super Tiger II/Katsumi Usuda (BattlARTS 27/6/08)

Dd that off of the top of my head, and looking at that list, I need a serious overdose of 80s UWF. I know there's matches I haven;t even listed that I've seen, but they shouldnlt be escaping my memory like that. I should mention that UWF is different to RINGS and so is BattlARTS. Not extremely different, but yeah.

If you want mroe recent stuff, Takeshi Ono was apparently on a roll last year. I can't comment on that because I've seen...nothing from him since 2009, and honestly Ono annoyed me while watching his 90s stuff so I'm not as motivated.


----------



## Cactus

*NOAH 11/5/2005*
Kenta Kobashi & Go Shiozaki vs Kensuke Sasaki & Katsuhiko Nakajima
_Months after their classic chopfest, Sasaki and Kobashi cross paths once again. This time, each of them has brought a younger guy to team with them. The match starts off with the Go & Nakajima starting off, creating an epic fast pace sequence before both guys tag in the legends. Kobashi and Sasaki have a slow test of strength. After that, each legend has a go at making the younger guy their bitch. Sasaki and Kobashi do a rehash of their chop battle, but don't go into overkill mode. Then poor old Go Shiozaki gets the crap beat out of him and this creates a build-up for a hot tag. It feels very Americanized with Kobashi clapping his heart out to encourage Shiozaki to keep on going (See what I did there?). It's a tad bizarre to see this in puro, but it works really well. Kobashi gets the tag and.... Well, I'm not going to spoil the rest. You'll see one of the hottest crowds I've seen at a NOAH show and a sick ass ending sequence. One of the best tag matches I've ever seen._
*******


----------



## antoniomare007

It's very hard to find a better NOAH match than that one.


----------



## Yeah1993

I feel I should give that another try. Thought it was about ****, which is still a fucking great match, but I didn't "get it" get it. I'll probably watch it back to back once I get to Kobashi/Sasaki.


----------



## Chismo

Top 5 in NOAH history, and their best tag team match. Oh, and Nakajima's kicks... Jesus! You should check his match with Kotaro from 9/23, the ending is mindblowing (it involves kicks).


----------



## starship.paint

Cactus said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6e7ws_yuki-ishikawa-vs-carl-greco-battlar_sport
> 
> Segunda Caida seems to flip his shit over this match. I haven't seen it but he said it's the best match he's ever seen. That must mean something because he's a major wrestling freak. He knows his shit, so I reckon you'll love it. I on the other hand, ...got bored after 5 minutes though.


Watched this, and I preferred the Han match by some margin really, I guess the tiny crowd played a significant part in that... I'd give it **** at first watch.. Watched the Han match twice already and it's ****3/4 for me. There're some shoot style rules I have to get used to.. I guess they have some sort of rule where at some point the ropes can't be used any more to break a hold...?


----------



## Cactus

Yeah1993 said:


> I feel I should give that another try. Thought it was about ****, which is still a fucking great match, but I didn't "get it" get it. I'll probably watch it back to back once I get to Kobashi/Sasaki.


It was everything Kobashi/Sasaki was but ten times better. The chop battle wasn't overkill, they had the young guys in their to mix it up and was just so much more exciting. I'm may be over-rating it because it's recent, but it'll probably be in my top 5 matches of all time.



starship.paint said:


> Watched this, and I preferred the Han match by some margin really, I guess the tiny crowd played a significant part in that... I'd give it **** at first watch.. Watched the Han match twice already and it's ****3/4 for me. There're some shoot style rules I have to get used to.. I guess they have some sort of rule where at some point the ropes can't be used any more to break a hold...?


Yeah. I don't know the exact number but you can only get a rope break a certain number of times.


----------



## Fighter Daron

Cactus said:


> Yeah. I don't know the exact number but you can only get a rope break a certain number of times.


Three times like ROH Pure Wrestling rules?


----------



## Cactus

Fighter Daron said:


> Three times like ROH Pure Wrestling rules?


3 or 5, I guess. I think it results in a DQ if you do it more than that. I could be bullshiting on that though.


----------



## Yeah1993

I liked ishikawa/Greco to the point where it'd likely remain in my top 10 for '08 if I went out and watched every great match from that year, but others seem to like it more than I do. Thought the elimination tag from June pretty much smoked it (would be MOTY if not for Dragon/McG @ 6YA) And yeah, there were a limited amount of rope-breaks. the part where they both forefeited their last one each on an agreement is brilliant. 

RINGS' rules in the 90s are more complicated to follow, actually.


----------



## peachchaos

I want a promotion that books only Iron Man matches with ROH Pure Rules. This is what I was hoping EVOLVE would be.


----------



## Cactus

*AJPW 4/15/1994*
Mitsuharu Misawa vs Akira Taue
_Akira controls Misawa for the first portion of the match. Misawa struggles to fight back, but after wining and dining Akira on his world-famous elbows, Misawa regains control. Much like his comrade in the Holy Demon Army, Taue fights back with some dirty tactics and makes the match even. Some awesome sequences follow. Akira wants to dump Misawa on the concrete outside with a chokeslam, much like he did in the 9/6/1995 tag match. He eventually does and Misawa is hurt. From here on out, this reminds me of Akiyama/Kobashi '04. The heel slams the face on the outside and the face looks in bad shape. Much like Kobashi did in 2004, Misawa keeps selling the outside spot all the way until the end of the match. Misawa fighting spirit keeps him alive and puts Akira away after a couple of Tiger Suplexes. _
*******


----------



## margaret01

Ric Flair(c) vs Sting,NWA Title,NWA Clash Of The Champions
Rey Mysterio vs Psychosis,WCW Bash At The Beach 1996
Rey Mysterio vs Eddie Guerrero(c),WCW CW Title vs Mask,WCW Halloween Havoc 1997 
Edge And Christain vs The Hardy Boyz vs The Dudley Boyz(c),WWF Tag Titles,TLC,WWF WrestleMania X-Seven 
Shawn Michaels vs Triple H,Street Fight,WWE Summerslam 2002
Brock Lesnar(c) vs Eddie Guerrero,WWE Title,WWE No Way Out 2004
Randy Orton(c) vs Cactus Jack,WWE IC Title,Hardcore Match,WWE Backlash 2004
John Cena(c) vs JBL,WWE Title,I Quit,WWE Judgment Day 2005 (Interesting)
Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels,WWE WrestleMania 25 (Bang On)
John Cena(c)vs CM Punk,WWE Title-WWE Money In The Bank 2011
Kurt Angle vs Steve Austin(c),WWF Title,WWF Unforgiven 2001

I think these are some of mine top matches..


----------



## Chismo

Cactus said:


> *AJPW 4/15/1994*
> Mitsuharu Misawa vs Akira Taue
> _Akira controls Misawa for the first portion of the match. Misawa struggles to fight back, but after wining and dining Akira on his world-famous elbows, Misawa regains control. Much like his comrade in the Holy Demon Army, Taue fights back with some dirty tactics and makes the match even. Some awesome sequences follow. Akira wants to dump Misawa on the concrete outside with a chokeslam, much like he did in the 9/6/1995 tag match. He eventually does and Misawa is hurt. From here on out, this reminds me of Akiyama/Kobashi '04. The heel slams the face on the outside and the face looks in bad shape. Much like Kobashi did in 2004, Misawa keeps selling the outside spot all the way until the end of the match. Misawa fighting spirit keeps him alive and puts Akira away after a couple of Tiger Suplexes. _
> *******


This match is so underrated. I mean, everyone is talking about Misawa/Kawada, but people rarely mention Taue's awesomeness.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Taue was just so far behind Kawada, Kobashi, Misawa that he got lost in it.


----------



## WrestlingGot

Y2J vs. The Rock for the Undisputed Championship at Royal Rumble 2002
Icon vs. Icon match WM18
Jeff Hardy vs. Kurt Angle No Surrender 2010

Those are a few of mine


----------



## WOOLCOCK

starship.paint said:


> ah thanks. I want moar shoot style five star stuff! Care to recommend?


Yeah1993 covered a lot of it very well but you can't go wrong with any of Sano, Fujiwara, Ishikawa, Ikeda, Tamura, Volk Han etc.

Fujiwara vs Yamazuki 24/07/1989
Fujiwara vs Super Tiger series- all on youtube now under the channel Crazy Luke 111
Yoji Anjoh vs Masakatsu Funaki
Backlund vs Takada UWF
Masakatsu Funaki vs Nakano 24/07/1989 
Ishikawa vs Greco 2008
Ishikawa vs Ikeda FUTEN 2005
Wayne Shamrock vs Naoki Sano PWFG (still trying to track this down but people who I largely agree with on most things wrestling related swear by this as a classic match)
Volk Han vs Tamura 1, 2 and 3- number 2 is the best and the one you saw from my youtube link
Tamura vs Sakuraba trilogy- they do one sequence in the first or second match that is literally mind boggling
Tamura vs Kohsaka- goes 30 minutes and is one of the greatest shoot fights ever. Obviously for the more fanatical fan especially if you find 15 minute shoot style matches are too much.



Cactus said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6e7ws_yuki-ishikawa-vs-carl-greco-battlar_sport
> 
> Segunda Caida seems to flip his shit over this match. I haven't seen it but he said it's the best match he's ever seen. That must mean something because he's a major wrestling freak. He knows his shit, so I reckon you'll love it. I on the other hand, ...got bored after 5 minutes though.


I wouldn't say its the best match I've ever seen, I dig give it the full ***** though. Everything from Ishikawa's selling, to both men's differing takedown style mixed with rope breaks culminating in both men giving away their final rope break voluntarily and then taking the fight to the mat for the final time just makes for an enthralling spectacle. There's still plenty of ***** matches I'd place above it like Lawler/Dundee and Flair/Steamboat COTC and Flair/Windhm BOTB II 1986 but its a damn amazing match. Won't be for everyone though.



starship.paint said:


> Watched this, and I preferred the Han match by some margin really, I guess the tiny crowd played a significant part in that... I'd give it **** at first watch.. Watched the Han match twice already and it's ****3/4 for me. There're some shoot style rules I have to get used to.. I guess they have some sort of rule where at some point the ropes can't be used any more to break a hold...?


I'm pretty sure RINGS differed from UWF and other shoot style promotions in the rules regarding rope breaks but it usually featured something like each rope break was worth two points or something and each break got you closer to your limit. It was the same with how many times you could get knocked down in a match before the ref stopped the match.


----------



## ywall2breakerj

My WWE list:
Undertaker vs HBK-Hell In A Cell
Ric Flair vs Randy Savage-Wrestlemania 8
Bret Hart vs Owen Hart-Wrestlemania 10
Steve Austin vs Bret Hart-Wrestlemania 13
Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit-Royal Rumble 2001


----------



## Bubz

Is Misawa/Taue 94 as good as their 95 triple crown match?


----------



## SuperDuperSonic

WrestlingGot said:


> Jeff Hardy vs. Kurt Angle No Surrender 2010


Fuck that pile of rotten shite.


----------



## Martins

I finally watched Danielson/Strong from SOH, and all I got to say is HOLY FUCK. Amazing trilogy of matches with This Means War, Vendetta and this one. I actually think I'd go with ****3/4 for the first two, and give the full ***** to the Supercard of Honor one. I know most people prefer the Vendetta match, but to me Danielson gets involved a little bit too much with the crowd in that one, going to the outside for what feels like slightly too much time. Plus, the other two matches just felt more complete to me.


----------



## Bubz

I haven't seen the SOH match. I think I remember people saying it was too long or something.


----------



## SuperDuperSonic

The other problem is that you never once are convinced that Strong will walk away as the ROH champion.


----------



## Fighter Daron

Martins said:


> I finally watched Danielson/Strong from SOH, and all I got to say is HOLY FUCK. Amazing trilogy of matches with This Means War, Vendetta and this one. I actually think I'd go with ****3/4 for the first two, and give the full ***** to the Supercard of Honor one. I know most people prefer the Vendetta match, but to me Danielson gets involved a little bit too much with the crowd in that one, going to the outside for what feels like slightly too much time. Plus, the other two matches just felt more complete to me.


I gotta watch that shit, as a big fan of both, how in the blue hell I have missed that?

And fuck Angle Vs Hardy too.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Bubz said:


> Is Misawa/Taue 94 as good as their 95 triple crown match?


Meltzer doesn't list them having a match in 94. That match posted above cactus put as 94 but it's actually their 95 match.


----------



## Martins

SuperDuperSonic said:


> The other problem is that you never once are convinced that Strong will walk away as the ROH champion.


Plus I watched it 6 years afer it happened and I aldready knew Dragon would win, but I still really enjoyd it, TBH. Didn't think it went for too long, either, time flew by while watching it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Loved Supercard of Honor but less than Vendetta, Danielson was off the charts character wise in the Strong series and Strong put in arguably his best performance in the Vendetta match to compliment the clear dynamic and pull the crowd in. I recall enjoying the Anarchy in the UK match even though it was a lesser match in the series due to Dragon wrestling earlier in the night.

Never seen the first match between them which set up the Vendetta clash, the one where Danielson applies a legit armbar or something and forces Strong to tap out before spitting on him.


----------



## Yeah1993

I hadn't watched any matches in context w/ it but I wouldn't have been too surprised if Strong came out the winner at Vendetta (watched it last year without full knowledge of who won).


----------



## Bubz

bigbuxxx said:


> Meltzer doesn't list them having a match in 94. That match posted above cactus put as 94 but it's actually their 95 match.


Yeah, I kind of thought that was the case at first, I had never heard of a match they had in 94. In that case if it's the 95 triple crown match it is an amazing match.


----------



## Violent By Design

Glad to see Sakuraba vs Tamura was mentioned. Kazushi is very underrated.


----------



## Cactus

*NWA 3/18/1989 (Landover)*
Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat
_They start of doing a callback spot from their 2/3 falls match. Flair's wooing for the smark-heavy crowd and Steamboat once again doesn't take no shit from Flair and slaps the taste out of his mouth. Being the second time this has happened, Flair is pissed and after a staredown, Flair charges at Steamboat to get this wrestling clinic underway. For the first half of the match, nobody is in full control. Steamboat seems to get the better of Flair but Flair's dirty tactics stop Steamboat from gaining the advantage. Flair gets Steamboat's leg and tries to break it into a million pieces. He Flair does a great job at doing the damage and Steamboat is great at selling it. After surviving the Figure 4, Steamboat returns the favor and dishes out some punishment on Flair's leg. Both guys are fight on one leg, but Steamboat picks up the win with the small cradle. I'd rank this just below their 2/3 falls match. Amazing technical masterpiece. _
*******


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I had that at #2 on my provisional Top 100 WCW poll just behind the COTC match between them, amazing series of matches and both House Show matches that day are incredible, they even play off of a spot in the first match during the second match in the day which speaks volumes about both men.


----------



## Martins

Segunda Caida said:


> Loved Supercard of Honor but less than Vendetta, Danielson was off the charts character wise in the Strong series and Strong put in arguably his best performance in the Vendetta match to compliment the clear dynamic and pull the crowd in. I recall enjoying the Anarchy in the UK match even though it was a lesser match in the series due to Dragon wrestling earlier in the night.
> 
> Never seen the first match between them which set up the Vendetta clash, the one where Danielson applies a legit armbar or something and forces Strong to tap out before spitting on him.


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xkk35a_bryan-danielson-vs-roderick-strong_sport

There it is. Vendetta is actually my least favourite of the 3, which really isn't saying much, since I gave it ****3/4, but I enjoyed that and the Supercard of Honor matches a bit more. I can't even help but feel inclined to give them all the full 5, absolutely loved that series of matches. Possibly my favourite Danielson series, enjoyed every single one of those matches more than any Nigel or KENTA one.


----------



## Violent By Design

Cactus said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6e7ws_yuki-ishikawa-vs-carl-greco-battlar_sport
> 
> Segunda Caida seems to flip his shit over this match. I haven't seen it but he said it's the best match he's ever seen. That must mean something because he's a major wrestling freak. He knows his shit, so I reckon you'll love it. I on the other hand, ...got bored after 5 minutes though.


good match. i liked it better when they were standing looking for takedowns though.


----------



## Tanner1495

I have now watched the This Means War and Vendetta matches, and although I prefer the TMW match a little more, I gave them both 5 snowflakes. Just incredible matches and if you have some time too kill, I strongly recommend watching both of them. Now if I can just find that third match.


----------



## DeadMichael

*These are the ones I agree with on the initial post.*

-Ric Flair vs [c]Ricky Steamboat, NWA World Title, NWA/WCW WrestleWar 1989

-Bret Hart vs Owen Hart, WrestleMania X

-[c]Razor Ramon vs Shawn Michaels, IC Title, WrestleMania X

-Megumi Kudo vs Combat Toyoda, Deathmatch, 5-5-1996

-Edge And Christain vs The Hardy Boyz vs [c]The Dudley Boyz,Tag Titles, WrestleMania X-Seven


*These are ones I have to add.*

-Austin Aries vs Nigel McGuinness, Supercard of Honor III

-Christopher Daniels vs. Low Ki vs. Bryan Danielson, Era of Honor Begins 

-The Steiner Brothers vs. Lex Luger and Sting, WCW Superbrawl I

-Bryan Danielson vs. Paul London, ROH The Epic Encounter 2003

-Eddie Guerrero vs. Rob Van Dam, Raw 5-27-02

-Juventud Guerrera vs. Rey Mysterio, ECW Big Ass Extreme Bash 1996

-Brock Lesnar vs. Eddie Guerrero, No Way Out 2004

-Eddie Guerrero vs. Kurt Angle, Wrestlemania XX

-CM Punk vs. Samoa Joe, ROH Joe v. Punk II

-Americas Most Wanted vs. XXX, TNA Turning Point 2004

-Randy Savage vs. Ricky Steamboat, Wrestlemania III

-Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle, Wrestlemania 21

-Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin, Wrestlemania XIII


----------



## Chismo

Very interesting list. Eddie/RVD, was that a Ladder Match? And yeah, that Rey/Juvie match is a forgotten gem.


----------



## peachchaos

I def prefer the Rey/Juice stuff to the Psicosis series. Top 5 ECW stuff right there. 

Why is there no section of the board dedicated to ECW talk?


----------



## Violent By Design

There wouldn't be much to talk about


----------



## Martins

Page 3??? Come on now, we can't let the best thread in the whole forum die out, can we? Therefore, here's a quick question: what do you guys think of Ki VS Kenta? Now, I'm not a HUUUUUUUGE fan of both, even though I have two Ki matches in my list so far (that one and VS Danielson at Round Robin), but I really, REALLY loved this match. So straight-forward, yet had psychology and amazing moments.

Also, another question: who's the guy in your list you think would be least likely to make it there?


----------



## antoniomare007

Haven't watched KENTA/Ki in like 4 years, loved it though. Didn't think it was 5 snowflakes material but is was the match you would want from those guys.

I guess Sheiky is the weirdest guy on my "list" but I haven't watched a lot from him to be honest. 3 years ago I wouldn't have thought that Lawler or Sarge could be such awesome workers too, they by far the 2 guys who have shocked me the most once I started watching their matches, specially Slaughter.


----------



## Cactus

Martins said:


> Also, another question: who's the guy in your list you think would be least likely to make it there?


Jeff Hardy. But it was the first TLC match, so it wasn't like Jeff did half the work. 

Speaking of that match, How do you guys have the first TLC match rated?


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Meh, I struggle with ladder matches because you have to expect them to largely be a collection of great looking spots mixed in with good pacing to create a few believable false finishes. For example I can hate a straight up spotfest but then at least enjoy a ladder match even if I wouldn't rate it highly, they're usually entertaining and fun and do the job instead of usually being awesome matches, largely because they often lack (for good reason) what I prefer in singles matches.

Only ones I really like are Benoit/Jericho, TLC III Smackdown 2001, MITB I at Wrestlemania 21 (thanks to Benoit) and MITB 2011, just for Bryan winning tbh.

As for which worker I never imagined to be in a ***** match of mine? Sheik because I'd seen maybe 1 match of his prior and Carl Greco because I'd never heard of him.


----------



## Bubz

Martins said:


> Page 3??? Come on now, we can't let the best thread in the whole forum die out, can we? Therefore, here's a quick question: what do you guys think of Ki VS Kenta? Now, I'm not a HUUUUUUUGE fan of both, even though I have two Ki matches in my list so far (that one and VS Danielson at Round Robin), but I really, REALLY loved this match. So straight-forward, yet had psychology and amazing moments.
> 
> Also, another question: who's the guy in your list you think would be least likely to make it there?


Love that match. 5 stars for me, and one of my favroite ROH matches ever. Also I think it's KENTA's second best ROH match behind KENTA/Dragon from Driven.


----------



## Fighter Daron

I rated with five stars the first TLC, and it's because it was fucking awesome, it'll never be a spotfest like that. 

And the oddest wrestler in my list, there a bunch:

- Necro Butcher, Ian Rotten, Zangig & Sick Nick Mondo: They had the two best deathmatches I've ever seen.
- Delirious: He was in the DG Vs ROH Tag Match that was so fucking incredible.


----------



## Bubz

To be honest I'm not that into ladder matches. The first TLC at Summerslam 2001 was awesome though, I loved it. The second at Wrestlemania 17 was also a lot of fun. After that though I think TLC matches just went down hill (Ihaven't seen the one that happened on SD though). The Punk/Hardy match was great though, probably the best since the first TLC match.

As for just ladder matches, Jericho/Benoit, Jericho/HBK, MITB 1 and 2 and the first ladder war in ROH are the ones that I really like. I can never get into the HBK/Razor matches as much as most people for some reason.

Also, Sheamus vs Morrison from last year was a great ladder match with great psychology and story. Not 5* but deserves a mention when talking about ladder matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

I really like a handful of Ladder Matches, but don't give any of them *****, and considering how many there have been and how many I like... I guess I'm technically not a big fan of the match type .

HBK/Razor House Show 1994
HBK/Razor WM X 1994
HBK/Razor SS 1995
Hardys/Dudleys/E&C WM 16 2000
TLC I SS 2000
Benoit/Jericho RR 2001
TLC III SD 2001
Eddie/RVD Raw 2002
MITB I WM 21 2005
Sheamus/Morrison fuckknowswhichPPV 2010

Those are the ones I would consider the best, with HBK/Razor SS, MITB I, TLC III, Eddie/RVD and Benoit/Jericho making my top 5.


----------



## Goku

Michaels vs. Jericho is probably the best one by me.


----------



## Fighter Daron

Bubz said:


> Also, Sheamus vs Morrison from last year was a great ladder match with great psychology and story. Not 5* but deserves a mention when talking about ladder matches.


Definitively, they worked a regular match with the ladder as a great enforcer for the spots, great psicology as well.



KingCal said:


> Sheamus/Morrison fuckknowswhichPPV 2010


WWE TLC 2010, it's easy to remember xD


----------



## 777

If Jomo vs Sheamus gets props, so should RVD vs Hardy.


----------



## Baldwin.

I really enjoyed The Undertaker vs. Jeff Hardy Ladder match from Raw in 2002.


----------



## Flux

The two ladder matches I instantly think of that don't include any of the MITBs are Benoit/Jericho and Taker/Hardy. They're my favourite and it's not even close, to be honest.


----------



## Bubz

That Hardy/Taker match was pretty great. I haven't seen it for years though.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Bubz said:


> I can never get into the HBK/Razor matches as much as most people for some reason.


these haven't held up over time. I tried watching the WM X one a couple weeks ago and it was just boring but when it happened it was awesome and revolutionary.


----------



## Fighter Daron

Yeah, love that match, also the post-match is epic with Undertaker becoming Hardy into a future star.


----------



## Concrete

I feel a little weird saying this but does no one have any love for Ladder War I. It is one of my favorite ladder matches along with being one of my favorite ROH matches. It misses out on the full monty for me but it comes pretty darn close. Maybe I am alone on this one


----------



## seabs

*Yeah Ladder War I isn't quite 5 stars for me but it's really close. TLC I is 5 stars for me though. Yeah it's a spotfest but one with loads of historical value and it holds really fucking well. Watched it about a year ago and it was still an insane bunch of fun considering how dated it could easily have got. Next best Ladder match is probs Benoit/Jericho. All the others are a noteable step behind them bar the Big Show MITB match. Can't remember what my thoughts on the HBK/Razor ladder matches were but I like them a lot even if they don't hold up that well due to Ladder Matches like TLC I and Ladder War I. That Morrison/Sheamus Ladder match is probably the best modern one though and obvs the Big Show MITB match. Hasn't really been any other really great Ladder matches other than them in like the last 6 or 7 years. The Armaggedon 06 Ladder Match deserves mentioning too. I remember really liking that one.*


----------



## bigbuxxx

Ladder War I as well as the entire Steen/Generico vs Briscoes feud was great.


----------



## Mister J

Dynamite Kid vs Tiger Mask 

I haven't seen it mentioned on here yet. I like all their matches.


----------



## seabs

*The Boston Street Fight was probably the best of the series and that's damn close to being 5* as well.*


----------



## SuperDuperSonic

bigbuxxx said:


> these haven't held up over time. I tried watching the WM X one a couple weeks ago and it was just boring but when it happened it was awesome and revolutionary.


It does hold up over time if you appreciate storytelling and psychology. You should hear Bryan & Vinny's review of the match recently.


----------



## Chismo

HBK/Ramon I is the GOAT ladder match.

Teh Briscoes/Steenerico Boston Street Fight is a five star slugfest. Totally better than Ladder War I.


----------



## peachchaos

HBK/Razor WM10 is the most overrated ladder match in the history of overrated ladder matches. The hokey build-up with two belts isn't very memorable and certainly doesn't yield the kind of heat Shawn had with Marty or Perfect in '93. Both guys put in solid performances and give the crowd what they want, but also leave a lot left to be desired. I hate to say it, but Hall really holds this match back just with his selling and limited moveset. Its a ****1/4 match, severely overrated in the way that many classic rock albums are considered better than some of the music they influence. 

And I'm not really even a fan of the gimmick, which is probably why the first Ladder War is my favorite and the only match of this kind I would give the full monty. Sure, the ladder is there in hopes that someone will climb and retrieve the belts, but by this point the feud was obviously about more than titles. The championship is basically a reward for staying alive in this blood feud. As noted elsewhere in this thread, the feud itself was so volital and hate feuled that there are at least 2 other matches involving the Briscoes and Steenerico that are nearly just as good. 

Various other matches involving ladders:
LW2 Steen/Generico vs. American Wolves ***1/2
LW3 Briscoes vs. All Night Express ****1/4
WCW Souled Out Syxx vs Guerrero ***3/4
SS95 HBK/Ramon II ****
Punk/Hardy ****1/4
E&C vs Hardys ****
TLC ****1/4
TLC 2 ****1/4
TLC 3 ****
Benoit/Jericho ****1/2
RVD/Guerrero ****
Rock/HHH ***3/4
Hart/Michaels ***1/4
Sandman/Sabu *3/4


----------



## Fighter Daron

And what about Jericho/Michaels, Sheamus/Morrison or Taker/Hardy?


----------



## Yeah1993

If I still used star ratings, HBK/Razor at WrestleMania is probably the only ladder or TLC match I would give **** or more to. Not a fan of the gimmick at all, really.


----------



## bigbuxxx

peachchaos said:


> Sandman/Sabu *3/4


if this is the Stairway to Hell match i'd give it ***** in enjoyment. the match def. isn't 5 but it's a lot of fun to watch.


----------



## seabs

*Sandman/Sabu is an amazing Ladder Match, especially in terms of being totally crazy but kinda structured in an odd way.*


----------



## Bubz

Yeah I loved Sandman/Sabu. Shit it's been so long since I watched any ECW stuff.

Also, I forgot about the Steen/Generico vs Briscoes Boston street fight, that shit was awesome as hell. That might actually be 5* for me, need to rewatch it though.


----------



## TelkEvolon

JoeRulz said:


> Teh Briscoes/Steenerico Boston Street Fight is a five star slugfest. Totally better than Ladder War I.


I never have enough rep to go around for your posts.

Awesome brawl and everything you could want in a wild heated street fight.


----------



## peachchaos

Seabs said:


> *Sandman/Sabu is an amazing Ladder Match, especially in terms of being totally crazy but kinda structured in an odd way.*


Structure? Maybe I need a rewatch, but I can't remember there being much rhyme or reason to anything the Sandman does in that match. I will say it is one of the better ECW gimmick matches in terms of violence and shock value, but my star rating is of course relative to something like the original Ladder War which I think is a perfect piece of hate-filled wrestling.

Edit: I'm watching this on youtube, where someone has set this to music by the band Confined. Okay. Cool grapple over the ladder to start, but Sabu drops low and kicks Sandman's legs out from under him. Then Sabu folds the ladder up and launches it at his opponent as hard as possible. He keeps doing this until Sandman falls over. Sabu drapes Sandman over the ladder as he sets it up on its side. Fonzie comes in to hold a chair over Sandman's head while Sabu hits a springboard sommersalt legdrop on the chair. Then Sabu puts the ladder over Sandman and hits a top rope legdrop with a chair. Sandman tries to go to the outside but Sabu hits a baseball slide and sends him into the crowd. Triple jump springboard plancha! They brawl around the ECW arena, going past the bleachers and up to the stage. Sabu sets up a table on the lower stage and hits a leg drop from the top stage, collapsing the entire table in the process. Sandman should be dead by now, but he manages to get a punch in on Sabu and hits a body slam in the stage, followed by an elbow drop. The brawl back to ringside, where Fonzie has set up a couple tables. Sandman grabs the ladder from the ring and suplexes it onto Sabu and into the crowd. Sandman throws Sabu onto one of the tables and hits a leg drop, but doesn't really put him through the table. Cool spot here as Sandy lays a ladder flat in the ring and extends it to the guard rail and then puts a table parallel. He then puts Sabu on the ladder and leg drops him through the table. Back in the ring and Sandman sets up the ladder and begins climbing. Sabu struggles but Sandman knocks him down and retrieves the barbed wire, but Sabu pushes the ladder over and sends Sandy through a table on the outside. Crowd is really into this. Sabu teases another triple jump plancha, but grabs the barbed wire instead! Sabu misses and eats both guard rail and barbed wire! Pretty sure he landed wrong and broke his jaw there. Sandman stalls and makes a nest of barbed wire in the corner. Sabu pushes him into the wire and throws a chair at him. Sabu finds a spike in his boots and starts stabbing and carving Sandman. Sandman is a bloody mess as Sabu puts a ring of barbed wire around his neck and ties him to the tree of woe. Sabu places a chair over Sandman's head and then jumps off another chair and hits a double stomp! He sets Sandman up in the corner with barbed wire, but misses a leg lariet and goes straight into the wire. Sandman, covered in blood and barbed wire, grabs his trusty cane. Cane shot to the face! With a broken jaw! Fonzie wraps tape around Sabu's jaw to hold it in place. Sandman is not in much better shape. He tries for an irish whip into the barbed wire, but Sabu reverses. Triple jump moonsault! Springboard leg drop. Arabian face buster. Sabu's jaw is so bad he can't recover. Sandman gets the cane again. Probably the coolest visual of Sandman, with barbed wire from head to torso and his face covered in blood. Sick cane shot to the head. Sandman falls on top. 1. 2. 3. Sandman hobbles to the back as Fonzie tries to tape Sabu back together. This would signify the end of their nearly 6 month feud, which began as a result of Sabu's appearances on WWF television with RVD and Jerry Lawler. This should have been a relatively big draw for ECW at the time, but since they weren't allowed to show barbed wire on TV or PPV, this was just a house show and not seen by many at the time. It is now fondly remembered as one of the best examples of "ECW hardcore" and included on WWE comps from time to time. As SEABS said earlier, the structure to the match is a little weird compared to most ladder matches. But of course they aren't trying to win a belt, just brutalize each other. And man. This was brutal. I liked this a lot more upon reviewing. The metal music didn't hurt either. ***


----------



## antoniomare007

SuperDuperSonic said:


> It does hold up over time if you appreciate storytelling and psychology. You should hear Bryan & Vinny's review of the match recently.


the same guys who said the Lawler vs Funk Empty Arena match "looked shitty" or something like that?? no thanks.


----------



## seabs

*Yeah I was listening to that show earlier where they said that and it caught me completely off guard. Had to rewind it to check they were talking about that match. I guess in their defense they hadn't actually seen the match and an Empty Arena Match can look shitty at a brief glance I guess.*


----------



## antoniomare007

No excuses man . In Memphis Heat they show part of the Funk/Russell interaction, that alone should hype them up for the EAM. And the action is supposed to look like a mess. It's Memphis, it's a heated feud and it's an unique match.


----------



## Cactus

*AJPW 10/24/1991*
Toshiaki Kawada vs Jumbo Tsurata
_I was pleasantly surprised to find out that Kawada and Tsuruta did have a singles match and boy, did I love it. They show you how you can have a 5 star match with only using moves such as strikes, headlocks and backdrops. The crowd is very hot and the story is brilliant. It's not Kawada's day and Tsuruta gets to keep the the triple crown before going into retirement the next year. Seeing Tsuruta celebrating with the fans seemed like his farewell moment._
*******


----------



## Bubz

Felt like posting my updated list, so this is the stuff I consider to be the best matches (or my favorites) I've ever seen up to this point.

Misawa/Kobashi v Kawada/Taue (9/6/95)
Misawa/Kobashi v Kawada/Taue (12/3/93)
Misawa v Jumbo (1/9/90)
Misawa v Kawada (3/6/94)
Kobashi/Kikuchi vs Kroffat/Furnas (25/5/92)
Misawa v Taue (CC Final 95)
Misawa vs Kobashi 97

Flair v Steamboat 2/3 falls (Clash Of The Champions 89)

Bret vs Austin (Wrestlemania 13)
The Rock v Austin (Wrestlemania 17)
HHH v Michaels v Benoit (Wrestlemania 20)

Danielson/Black v American Wolves (Tag Title Classic)
Danielson v KENTA (Driven 07)
Joe v Punk II (Joe v Punk II)
Low Ki vs KENTA (Final Battle 05)
Joe v Kobashi (Joe v Kobashi)

Kobashi v Akiyama (10/7/04)
Kobashi v Takayama (04)


----------



## Chismo

Random rewatch: *Jumbo vs. Misawa 9/1/1990*, it's still one of the best matches of all time. Top 7 definitely. Emotions, drama, crowd, counters, athleticism, storytelling, game plans... You got it all. Just like in Flair/Steamer matches, you don't really know when it's going to end, in 15, 25 or 40 minutes. That's what I call THE drama. It's a structure without structure. God, I miss Jumbo. What! A! Boss! 
Rating:*********


----------



## WOOLCOCK

That Kawada/Jumbo match is amazing, Kawada's first real breakout singles match and perhaps Jumbo's truly last 'great match'. Also good callbacks to the Misawa/Jumbo feud and the resulting 6 man tags, and with Kawada being Misawa's second in command he and Jumbo locked up enough times to the point where they had a real good dynamic of Kawada being a level below Jumbo, but reducing that level with every encounter they had.

Jumbo's performance in the 09/01 match is still a great contender for GOAT performance, captured the story of an old man who knows his peak years are behind him determined to show he has still has energy in the tank and is still worthy of being called the top dog.


----------



## antoniomare007

Segunda, who's better...early 90's Jumbo or your grumpy boo 05'-06'-11' Finlay?


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Its like asking me to pick between Springsteen and Dylan, I'd give the edge to Finlay only since I've seen more of his 2006 run and beyond more recently and its more heavily imprinted in my brain, can't think of a better performance though than Jumbo's vs Misawa but the Benoit TV and PPV series from 2006, the EVOLVE Callihan match and a bunch of other Finlay shit (Regal uncensored) will never be any less than awesome to me. Both amazing wrestlers although early Jumbo does make me think he aged much better, gonna pounce on Cal's Finlay set eventually since that includes more of his athletic prime (watching a WOS match vs Marty Jones shocked me as to just how agile mid 80s Finlay was) and hidden Europe work which is criminally lost to most.

Grumpy Finlay and Grumpy Tenryu vs PWG Young Bucks = GREATEST SQUASH OF ALL TIME BTW.


----------



## Bubz

Jumbo/Misawa 9/1/90 is one of the best matches ever, I prefer it to the more talked about Misawa/Kawada 94 match, although they are very different. Jumbo completely losing it and pummeling Misawa's face in is amazing to watch.


----------



## Violent By Design

anyone got some territory or lucha matches? looking for some good stuff that isn't widely pimped.


----------



## topper1

Finlay simply does not have the match list to be considered anywhere near Jumbo.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Violent By Design said:


> anyone got some territory or lucha matches? looking for some good stuff that isn't widely pimped.


http://www.wrestlingforum.com/megap...h-some-good-ol-fashioned-rasslin-memphis.html ?


----------



## WOOLCOCK

topper1 said:


> Finlay simply does not have the match list to be considered anywhere near Jumbo.


He's been considerably great throughout his career, whereas watching early to mid 80s Jumbo gets harder and harder everytime I watch, the man was amazing near the end of his career but there's a reason more and more people have moved away from 'Jumbo is the GOAT' and fpcused more on Kawada, Fujiwara, Tenryu, Lawler, Misawa, Funk etc as the potential GOAT.

Fujiwara and Funk can also be debated as having a far lesser catalogue of matches than Jumbo, but both to me are considerably better when you consider their entire careers. At this stage there's more room to debate whether Funk was ever better than Jumbo was in 1990-1991 than there is whether Funk is better than Tsuruta period because when you take their entire careers Funk smokes Jumbo by a considerable margin.


----------



## Violent By Design

Jumbo isn't near GOAT status in my book.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I'd argue his 1990-1991 run belongs in the upper echelon of 'peak years' for a worker, much like El Dandy 1989-1992, Flair's entire 80s but namely his 1985 and 1989 year, Lawler from 82-87, Misawa 91-96, Taue's 1995 etc, Fujiwara's entire 80s, 1990 Liger etc.

He's had some memorable performances and is still excellent, but yeah Tenryu, Hashimoto, Kawada, Liger, Fujiwara, Fujinami (could do with a rewatch of his best stuff), Misawa, Kobashi (maaaaaaaaybe), Naoki Sano (huge fan of this guy and demand more of his work be uncovered) and The Destroyer would be closer to GOAT status as japan workers (and in Destroyer's case, where some of his best work originated from) IMO than Jumbo.


----------



## Violent By Design

Speaking of Sano. Does anyone have his match against Shamrock ~_~?


----------



## antoniomare007

Violent By Design said:


> Jumbo isn't near GOAT status in my book.


He is in mine, I really don't give a damn if he had "average" matches instead of the classics people thought he would have in the 80's. I've seen a shit ton from him and seen enough greatness to consider him one of the GOATs. 

I tend to separate "who's more talented?" to "who had a better career?" because to me those are 2 totally different discussions (for example I think Owen was more talented than Bret, but Bret had better and more consistent career so if I had to rank them, I would put Bret higher). And I don't like to compare puro guys to NA guys because is pretty pointless to be honest.


----------



## Violent By Design

Kawada and Ultimo Dragon are the best wrestlers out of Japan in my opinion.


I agree with The Destroyer. I would have him over Jumbo (and Misawa as well).


----------



## djmathers1207

Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart- Wrestlemania XII
Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker- Wrestlemania XXV
Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker- Wrestlemania XXVI
Bret Hart vs British Bulldog- Summerslam 1992
CM Punk vs John Cena- Money In The Bank
Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart- Wrestlemania X
Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart- Summerslam 1994


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Shamrock match is on Goodhelmet's PWFG comp (7 discs or something like that) but never seen it on a download link.

FTR Antonio: I was bringing up how to me Finlay and Funk's entire careers where its nye on impossible to pick a time where you could consider them 'disappointing' or 'before their prime' make up for them lacking the sheer volume of epic matches that Tsuruta amassed in AJPW. I'd never call his 80s work 'bad' though I do think its decreased in quality, though he does show great glimpses in some of the Flair matches and the 1986 tag (I forget the participants but its the tag everyone raves about as close to the 1990 and 1991 6 mans) that we'd go on to see in the twilight of his career.

I just think you can count the amount of disappointing performances from Finlay or Funk one one hand than compared to Jumbo, especially if you watch his 90s stuff before the 80s. That was more my general point.


----------



## antoniomare007

Funk is better than pretty much everyone really. Haven't seen a lot of Finlay besides what he's done in this decade (and to my earlier question, I would take 90's Jumbo to 00's Finlay in a heartbeat). And there's DECADES of work we haven't seen from Funk or Finlay for me to take seriously the "they never disappoint" tbh. But as I said before, I don't like comparing puro guys to NA/Euro guys, so I was referring more to other Japanese wrestlers.

This is a good discussion though, I'ma go get drunk while I watch La U play in Copa Sudamericana but hopefully I'll be back in a few hours to continue with this (although I'm pretty sure the discussion will be dead by that point. lol).


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Yeah I accept Finlay in particular may have had bad matches early on, though whenever I've seen people bring up his spells in Europe its usually to good reviews, and his WOS matches showed in his youth he was an athletic son of a bitch who still had the wrestling brain, stiffness and genius that ensures he can wrestle for years and never miss a trick. 2006+ Finlay is probably my favourite worker of the two, since he just makes everything look so knarly and vicious I can't help but adore everything he does, Jumbo was incredible in the 1990-1991 timeframe especially in the singles matches but yeah I'd still say I prefer Finlay even though I can totally buy why Jumbo's 90s spell would have more fans simply for the matches let alone the performances he threw out.

I accept the Puro/America debate can be the equivalent of flogging a dead horse with the different styles and ways of working, like I said it was a case of me saying a catalogue of amazing matches doesn't necessarily make Jumbo better than a Funk or Finlay, when to me if push came to shove I'd sooner have more Finlay/Funk matches available than I would Jumbo matches, not because I actively dislike Jumbo but simply because he isn't as great/appeals to me as Finlay or Funk or even someone like Hansen.

As for current GOAT: atm its Fujiwara/Lawler tie > Flair > Kawada > Tenryu > Stan Hansen/El Satanico tie.


Also the more of him I watch the more I want to put Yuki Ishikawa in the better than Jumbo elite group, amazing worker.


----------



## seabs

Violent By Design said:


> anyone got some territory or lucha matches? looking for some good stuff that isn't widely pimped.


*Any Lawler vs Dundee match
Lawler vs Idol - Cage Match
Duggan vs DiBiase - Cage + Stips Match
Murdoch vs Windham - Mid South 87
Shit there's so much Mid South stuff that is some of the best stuff from the 80's. Anything Flair from 85 is must see stuff. I had a list of the best Mid South matches I made, I'll see if I can find it.

As far as Lucha, the Santo vs Dandy vs Casas 3 match from 97 is by the far the best lucha match I've ever seen and likely will ever see. 

Top 20 Mid South matches (imo)
1) Dick Murdoch vs. Barry Windham (7/11/87)
2) No DQ Loser Leaves Town Coal Miner's Glove on a Pole Tuxedo Cage Match: Ted DiBiase vs. Hacksaw Jim Duggan (3/22/85)
3) The Dirty White Boys vs. Terry Daniels & Bill Dundee (5/11/85)
4) Ric Flair vs. Terry Taylor (5/3/85)
5) The Fantastics vs. "Dr. Death" Steve Williams & Jake Roberts (4/14/85)
=) The Fantastics vs. The Midnight Express (OKC 8/9/84)
=) The Midnight Express vs. Bill Dundee & Porkchop Cash (4/6/84)
8) Hacksaw Jim Duggan vs. Buzz Sawyer (11/11/85)
9) Ric Flair vs. Terry Taylor (4/28/85)
10) Chris Adams vs. Terry Taylor (5/3/87)
11) No DQ: Ted DiBiase vs. Jim Duggan (3/8/85)
12) Dick Murdoch vs. "Dr. Death" Steve Williams (6/13/87)
13) Jake Roberts vs. Ric Flair (11/24/85)
14) No DQ, Dark Journey in a Cage: Dick Slater vs. Jake Roberts (2/28/86)
15) The Rock N Roll Express vs. The Dirty White Boys (5/11/85)
16) Mr. Wrestling II & Magnum T.A. vs. The Midnight Express (2/10/84)
17) Ted DiBiase vs. Ric Flair (11/6/85)
18) The Fantastics vs. The Midnight Express (No DQ) (9/28/84)
19) Ric Flair vs. Wahoo McDaniel (7/12/85)
20) The Midnight Express vs. Bill Watts & Stagger Lee (4/22/84) 

Edit: Found my top 25 for Memphis too 

1. Lawler vs Dundee - Loser Leaves Town - 30.12.1985
2. Lawler vs Idol - Hair vs Hair Cage Match - 27.04.1987
3. Lawler vs Dundee - 19.10.1985
4. Morton/Gilbert vs Fuchi/Onita - Concession Stand Brawl - 04.09.1981
5. Lawler vs Funk - Empty Arena Match - 06.04.1981
6. Fabolous Ones vs Eaton/Myers - Hair vs Titles - 16.05.1983
7. Lawler vs Dundee - Loser Leaves Town 06.06.1983
8. Lane/Koko vs Gilbert/Morton - No DQ 2/3 Falls - Oct 1981
9. Lawler vs Mantell - Barbed Wire Match - 29.03.1982
10. Fabolous Ones vs The Moondogs - Stretcher Match - 02.05.1983
11. Lawler vs Dory Funk Jr. - 30.03.1981
12. Lawler/Savage vs Rude/Bundy - No DQ - 17.09.1984
13. Flair vs Koko - 18.11.1985
14. Lawler/Mantell vs Dundee/Landel - 10.03.1986
15. Lawler vs Funk - No DQ - 23.03.1981
16. Lawler vs Mantell - Loser Leaves Town 27.03.1982
17. Lawler/Savage vs Ryde/Bundy - 10.09.1984
18. Lawler vs Bockwinkel - 25.10.1982
19. Lawler vs Flair - 14.08.1982
20. Lawler vs Mantell - 22.03.1982
21. Eaton/Koko vs Mantell/Cobra - 19.07.1982
22. Lawler vs Bockwinkel - 18.10.1982
23. Lawler/Idol vs Hansen/Ventura - 25.09.1983
24. Fabolous Ones vs Sheepherders - 22.06.1985
25. Mantell/Steve O/Fabolous Ones vs Street/Barr/Sheepherders - Stips Match - 28.03.1983*


topper1 said:


> Finlay simply does not have the match list to be considered anywhere near Jumbo.


*Completely agree with this. Not gonna argue with people who call Finlay great but he really doesn't have a good enough reseme of matches to be considered top 20 of all time for example, probably even top 50. Don't wanna get too deep into a Finlay discussion though because I haven't seen anywhere near enough Finlay footage to comment anymore than that on him. 

Jumbo though I think is overrated. 90's Jumbo working with Misawa and that whole feud is great though but as I started the 80's All Japan set and started watching a lot of early-mid carear Jumbo I wasn't really all that impressed. He seemed ok most of the time, good sometimes but rarely great. Only up to like 84/85 though but I don't think he had enough years of being great to be considered GOAT material. *


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Any Lucha fan needs to watch:

Satanico/Gran Cochisse 1984
El Dandy vs ***** Casas 1992
El Dandy vs Javier Llanes 1994
Damiancito El Guerrero vs Cicloncito Ramirez 1997
Damiancito El Guerrero vs Cicloncito Ramirez Trios match 1997
El Hijo Del Santo vs Espanto Jr, 1986 and 1988. Never seen a link for the 1992 match.
1997 CMLL Cibernetico

Seabs covered the Territories exceptionally even though I do disagree with him on Finlay's placing as a worker, I really couldn't think of 20+ guys I'd say I enjoy/think are better than him let alone nearly 50. Its the same with Regal, he doesn't have a single weakness as a worker to me and does everything so well that you wish he could have been more of a major player in companies and worked longer with some of the best in the world, for me he's an easy top 20 guy.


----------



## Violent By Design

Regal's amazing talent. If he had a more higher profile feud, he would be a GOAT candidate even to casual fans.

I think I've seen all those matches Segunda. I'm coincidentally checking out Santo vs Espanto (80s one) right now. They're amongst the finest Lucha matches indeed.


Thanks for your opinion Seabs. I just downloaded Ric Flair vs Koko B Ware.

I remember hearing people here talk about Wahoo McDaniels vs Ric Flair. Anyone got a link to that? That sounds interesting.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I'd say vs Hashimoto in NJPW is his greatest ever performance, amazing how legit he looked giving Hashimoto a surly arse kicking, the Sting match at Great American Bash 1996 is also a personal favourite of mine largely for how well they let Regal wrestle as a midcarder against STING.

The Benoit matches speak for themselves as well.


----------



## Horselover Fat

Violent By Design said:


> Kawada and Ultimo Dragon are the best wrestlers out of Japan in my opinion.
> 
> 
> I agree with The Destroyer. I would have him over Jumbo (and Misawa as well).


i liked ultimo dragon when he fought yuji nagata at Slim Jim™ Halloween Havoc


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Violent By Design said:


> Regal's amazing talent. If he had a more higher profile feud, he would be a GOAT candidate even to casual fans.
> 
> I think I've seen all those matches Segunda. I'm coincidentally checking out Santo vs Espanto (80s one) right now. They're amongst the finest Lucha matches indeed.
> 
> 
> Thanks for your opinion Seabs. I just downloaded Ric Flair vs Koko B Ware.
> 
> I remember hearing people here talk about Wahoo McDaniels vs Ric Flair. Anyone got a link to that? That sounds interesting.


Flair/Koko is indeed awesome, but its Flair in 1985. He was awesome all year.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4UTBKX08 : Flair/McDaniel 2/3 falls, Battle of the Belts.

http://www.fileserve.com/file/vfn3xqD : Flair/McDaniel Mid South match.


----------



## Bubz

Adding these to my list:

Wild Pegasus (Banoit) vs Black Tiger II (Guerrero) (BOSJ 96) 
Jushin Liger vs Naoki Sano (31/01/90)

Liger/Sano especially is completely amazing.

As far as the GOAT discussion, I haven't seen enough of Finlay at all to comment apart from his WWE run and the few matches he's done this year, but there is no doubt he's an amazing worker. Same goes for Regal.

If I had to pick someone who's work I've seen a lot of and was always great, it would be Misawa. I actually prefer Kobashi, but there is no denying that between 90 and 96, maybe as late as 98 Misawa was amazing and I've never seen a bad match from him between that period.

Kobashi is probably my favorite wrestler ever though, through most of the 90's he was amazing and I haven't seen anyone that can get me as invested in a match as him. he was a great story teller between that time and his 2003 - 2005 run in NOAH was pretty great aswell.


----------



## McQueen

Liger/Sano have a pretty swank rematch from '96 too. Maybe not at the caliber of the 89/90 stuff but its pretty damn good too.


----------



## Bubz

I'll have to check it out. That whole trilogy was awesome.

Seabs, that's an awesome list.


----------



## Yeah1993

I'd take Jumbo over Fit, but I think I'd put Fit in the top 25. There'd probably not be too many gaps between, but Jumo's peak was better, Jumbo's match catalogue is better, and his best performances are better (this one's arguable bar a couple of Jumbo stuff in the 90s). Finlay was arguably as consistant and I could see someone going the other way.

Of all the things to compare, peak vs. consistancy or best stuff vs. consistancy are the ones that make my brain hurt the most. 



Violent By Design said:


> Speaking of Sano. Does anyone have his match against Shamrock ~_~?


give a month or so and I may be able to rip and up it. No promises, but I'll throw it a shot.


----------



## Horselover Fat

Yeah1993 if Jumbo Tsuruta was a member of the Wu Tang Clan who would he be and why.


----------



## Yeah1993

No idea who they are.


----------



## Horselover Fat




----------



## WOOLCOCK

Yeah1993 said:


> I'd take Jumbo over Fit, but I think I'd put Fit in the top 25. There'd probably not be too many gaps between, but Jumo's peak was better, Jumbo's match catalogue is better, and his best performances are better (this one's arguable bar a couple of Jumbo stuff in the 90s). Finlay was arguably as consistant and I could see someone going the other way.
> 
> Of all the things to compare, peak vs. consistancy or best stuff vs. consistancy are the ones that make my brain hurt the most.
> 
> 
> 
> give a month or so and I may be able to rip and up it. No promises, but I'll throw it a shot.


I appreciate it might be a flawed concept, but like I said I was just trying to explain why both Finlay and Funk having such great consistent careers makes me appreciate them as much as I do to the point where I'd sooner watch both over Jumbo, despite agreeing with you that his peak, matches and a couple of performances arguably blow both Finlay/Funk away.

If you ripped that match (no pressure) you'd be an insant hero, I'm really excited to see more of Shamrock outside of his WWF run. Heard he's supposed to have had an awesome match vs Rock in 99 though, to the point where people were putting him as a top 5 Rock opponent ever simply for how good it was.


----------



## Chismo

As much as I appreciate Finlay and Funk, they are not close to Jumbo in my book. Sure, everybody is familiar with his early 90's G.O.A.T. run, but the real legacy comes from 70s and 80s - his tags with Baba, his NWA UNHC run (vs. Jack Brisco, Race, Robinson, Murdock, Abdullah The Butcher...), NWA IHC run (vs. Bruiser Brody, Hansen...), his ridiculously underrated AWA title run, Choshu feud, his teaming with Tenryu (legendary feud with Choshu & Yatsu), his teaming with Yatsu and, of course, his epic feud with Tenryu.

EDIT: And boy, people need to watch Flair/McDaniel series. Totally cool shit, not just 80s, but 70s too. Wahoo was the man.


----------



## Tanner1495

I would take Jumbo over Finlay, but come on, Finlay is still awesome!


----------



## peachchaos

I would really like to see a Funk/Finlay match.


----------



## Fighter Daron

Lawler/Tenryu/Finlay Vs Flair/Jumbo/Funk

Best 6 man ever.


----------



## antoniomare007

Yeah1993 said:


> Of all the things to compare, peak vs. consistancy or best stuff vs. consistancy are the ones that make my brain hurt the most.


I agree, but I think the best discussions come from there. To me, the importance I give to one of them depends on the wrestler we are talking about and I have a hard time understanding how people can be so definitive when it comes to "peak vs consistency" (*cough*DVDVR*cough*)



Three Orange Whips said:


>


*DEAD*

:lmao

we meed that "flabby and sick" smiley in this forum...and also the sadLebron one


----------



## Chismo

Fighter Daron said:


> Lawler/Tenryu/Finlay Vs Flair/Jumbo/Funk
> 
> Best 6 man ever.


Stan Hansen, Fit Finlay and Vader vs. Toshiaki Kawada, Genichiro Tenryu and Yoshihiro Takayama.


----------



## Violent By Design

That smiley is of Buggin' Out from Do The Right Thing right?


----------



## Yeah1993

Segunda Caida said:


> I appreciate it might be a flawed concept, but like I said I was just trying to explain why both Finlay and Funk having such great consistent careers makes me appreciate them as much as I do to the point where I'd sooner watch both over Jumbo, despite agreeing with you that his peak, matches and a couple of performances arguably blow both Finlay/Funk away.





antoniomare007 said:


> I agree, but I think the best discussions come from there. To me, the importance I give to one of them depends on the wrestler we are talking about and I have a hard time understanding how people can be so definitive when it comes to "peak vs consistency" (*cough*DVDVR*cough*)


Oh yeah, I wasn't saying reading about that stuff from other posters makes my head hurt (figure of speech btw), I'm saying attmeptiing to compare it myself makes my head hurt. I always end up going 

"well, wrestler A's best is a lot better than wrestler B"
"but wrestler A has had a shitty run for a half a decade before becoming good"
"but then again, his performance at ____ blows away wrestler B's best"
"but he ruined a ton of matches elsewhere and wrestler B didn't"

omg


----------



## Violent By Design

i just watched lawler vs dory funk jr, great match. best dory funk match ive seen thus far.


----------



## Cactus

*NOAH 3/1/2003*
Kenta Kobashi vs Mitsuharu Misawa
_This classic deserves a rewatch. This is the Japanese equivalent to Rock vs Austin, HBK vs Undertaker, Batman vs Spiderman.... you get the picture. I love this match. Everything about it. They churn out near enough all their movesets to put on a match which I would consider the best singles match I have ever seen. Ranking in at #2 on my GOAT match list, only behind Kawada/Taue versus Misawa/Kobashi from 6/9/1995. _
*******


----------



## Bubz

great match but their 97 match is easily the best IMO. I also prefer Kobashi/Akiyama from 04 but I know a lot of people think it's overrated.


----------



## djmathers1207

Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels- Wrestlemania XII
Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker- Wrestlemania 25
Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker- Wrestlemania 26
John Cena vs. CM Punk- Money In The Bank 2011
Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart- Wrestlemania X
Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart- Summerslam 1994
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit- Royal Rumble 2003


----------



## Yeah1993

Like that Kobashi/Misawa a lot, but it's probably their fifth or sixth best singles together.


----------



## Violent By Design

What bout some AWA? Any classics aside from Henning vs Bock? Doesn't have to be 5 star.

Interested to see what gems people discover when Death-Valley works on that AWA list.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Just saw Hashimoto for the first time and watched a few mins of him vs. regal. I feel the same way I did when I first saw Takayama, expecting some fat sloppy guy not able to do much. If BIG TAK can surprise, anybody can. Can somebody recommend his best matches? I have like 25 d/l'ed to be watched .


----------



## Yeah1993

vs Vader 4/24/89
vs Hase 12/14/94
vs Regal 4/16/95
vs Choshu 9/2/96
vs Tanaka 2002 (forgot the date)
vs Tanaka 7/11/03
vs Kawada 2/22/04 (my puro MOTD)
Any match with Tenryu.

That's a pretty good place to start. Drawing a blank on anything he did from 90-92; had a ton of multi-mans, I think.


----------



## bigbuxxx

thanks. forgot i did get through the vader 89 match and didn't like it that much. short review of it in puro thread.


----------



## Violent By Design

Yoshiaki Fujiwara vs. Super Tiger (9/7/84) is excellent. Probably the best Shoot style match that I have seen.


----------



## Chismo

EDIT: nvm.


----------



## antoniomare007

look at Yeah1993 pimping Hash matches, it's almost as if he actually watched them...I only he wrote a review about them to be sure that he did :side:

I would add to that list the 93' Hase match, the 94' Liger match, 96' vs Takada (2nd best IWGP defense behind the Hase one, imo) and the Zero-1 debut show main event tag against Misawa/Akiyama.

ohhh, and he had an amazing feud against Yamazaki.




Violent By Design said:


> What bout some AWA? Any classics aside from Henning vs Bock? Doesn't have to be 5 star.
> 
> Interested to see what gems people discover when Death-Valley works on that AWA list.


the title matches they have against each other are awesome. (the 86' match 
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=782AYWSA and SuperClash 1987 http://www.megaupload.com/?d=MA5PATJT)


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Han/Tamura is my GOAT shoot style match, but Fujiwara/Sayama is an awesome series and contrast of styles and definitely worth watching. Think the date of their best match is 9/11 or 11/9 depending on what dates you go by.

Also add Hashimoto vs Fujiwara 1994 for the IWGP Title as an essential Hash match to watch, Fujiwara establishes his amazing grappling and Hashi has to find ways to go on the offensive whilst worrying about exposing a limb for Fujiwara to hook. Great chess style match that you'll love if you watch a lot of Hash matches and see how differently he's forced to work for the majority of the match, plus its a rare Fujiwara title match so the crowd are really up for it.

Also check out the 1993 NJPW/WAR feud which progressed Hashimoto/Tenryu and produced some truly great singles and tag matches filled with stiff strikes, HATE and nuclear crowds.

Agreed on Kobashi/Misawa 2003 not being near their best, found it to be reliant at times on more headrops which is the way Misawa wanted NOAH to be IIRC, Bubz is spot on with the 20/1/97 love as their best match. I also adored one of their 30 minute draws (think it was in the Champions Carnival) on last watch, pretty sure Kawada is able to beat Misawa and Kobashi later on in the tournament as a result of both men being weakened from the match.


----------



## antoniomare007

meh, didn't thought the Hash/Fujiwara match was more than "good". The fact that I watched it with huge expectations didn't help though.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

think I had it at ****1/4, was on a huge kick of Fujiwara at the time and adored the stop and start nature of each exchange, as well as Hashimoto being constantly outwitted and wrestled in the beginning and even his patented strikes being an opportunity for Fujiwara to regain control, made Hashimoto look like such an underdog without even having to utilise many sequences, such is the strength of Fujiwara's presence and charisma.

Watch it again, love it and come back to me


----------



## antoniomare007

lol nah man, I watched not too long ago (1-2 months) gotta wait a while longer before watching it again.

it's a fun match and very watchable, but I wouldn't put it up there with Hash's best performances.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Yeah I mean I think Fujiwara makes the match (not to say Hash is bad, but the focus is put on showing off Fujiwara to make Hash's story/struggle that much greater) and as I said seeing how different and cautious the match is compared to a lot of Hash matches really made me appreciate it so much more. Maybe its because I'm a huge Fujiwara mark but its one of those matches where I was glued to the screen and adored how they stopped and started and create tension in each exchange, I dunno it felt like such an organic fight and match. Shoot style executed entirely in pro style if you will.

Want to watch Tenryu/Fujiwara 1997 again at some point, or just TENRYU in general.


----------



## antoniomare007

Watch Tenryu vs Hashimoto 2/17/94, now THAT's a classic :side:. 

I spent years looking for that match and it even surpassed my stupid high expectations once I got to watch that damn war. The best match they had with each other and the one that legitimized Hash as THE MAN in New Japan.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Yeah I'm going on a puro and lucha kick soon, burnt out a bit on American wrestling with how much WCW I watched for the poll as well as the insane amount of Lawler I watched in a short space of time.

Satanico, Tenryu, Hashimoto and Liger: :mark:



once I finish that god damn Law assignment


----------



## Fighter Daron

My list updated with a crazy shit from NOAH: 

*WWF/E: *
Stone Cold Steve Austin Vs Bret Hart - Wrestlemania XIII
Stone Cold Steve Austin Vs The Rock Vs Kurt Angle Vs Triple H Vs Rikishi Vs Undertaker - _Hell in a Cell_ - Armageddon 2000
Steve Austin Vs The Rock - Wrestlemania X-7
Second TLC - Wrestlemania X-7
Team WWF Vs Team Alliance - WWF: Survivor Series 2001
The Rock Vs Hulk Hogan - WWF: Wrestlemania X8
Triple H vs Chris Jericho - _Hell in a Cell Match_ - WWE: Judgement Day 2002
Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels - _Unsanctioned Match_ - WWE: Summerslam 2002
Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels Vs Chris Jericho Vs Booker T Vs Kane Vs Rob Van Dam - _Elimination Chamber_ - Survivor Series 2002
Ric Flair Vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania XXIV
Shawn Michaels Vs Undertaker - Wrestlemania XXV
Shawn Michaels Vs Undertaker - Wrestlemania XXVI
John Cena Vs CM Punk - MITB 2011

*ROH*
Low Ki vs Doug Williams vs Spanky vs Christopher Daniels - Crowning a Champion
Samoa Joe Vs CM Punk - World Title Classic
Samoa Joe Vs CM Punk - Joe Vs Punk II
ROH(Claudio Castagnoli, Delirious, Rocky Romero & Austin Aries) Vs Dragon Gate(CIMA, Dragon Kid, Ryo Saito & Yokosuka) - ROH: All Star Estravaganza 3
Kenta Kobashi Vs Samoa Joe - Joe Vs Kobashi
Bryan Danielson Vs KENTA - Glory By Honor V Night 2
Nigel McGuinness Vs Bryan Danielson - Unified
El Generico Vs Kevin Steen - Final Battle 2010

*NJPW*
Naoki Sano Vs Jushin Thunder Liger - 1-31-1990
Hiroshi Tanahashi Vs Hirooki Goto - Destruction 2007
Hiroshi Tanahashi Vs Satoshi Kojima - G1 Climax 2010 Final

*AJPW*
Jumbo Tsuruta Vs Genichiro Tenryu - 05/06/1989
Mitsuharu Misawa Vs Toshaki Kawada - 03/06/1994
Mitsuharu Misawa Vs Kenta Kobashi - 21/10/1997

*NOAH*
*Kenta Kobashi Vs Jun Akiyama - 10/07/04*
Kensuke Sasaki Vs Kenta Kobashi - 18/07/2005
Kensuke Sasaki Vs Go Shiozaki - 24/07/10

*TNA*
Samoa Joe Vs Christopher Daniels Vs AJ Styles - Unbreakable 2005
Samoa Joe Vs Christopher Daniels Vs AJ Styles - Turning Point 2009

*PWG*
Bryan Danielson Vs Chris Hero - Guerre Sans Frontieres
¡Peligro Abejas! Vs Young Bucks Vs Cutler Brothers – _Guerrilla Warfare_ - PWG Seven

*CZW *
John Zandig Vs Sick Nick Mondo - _2 Out of 3 Falls Log Cabin Deathmatch_ - CZW: Tournament of Death II
Ian Rotten Vs Necro Butcher - _Fans Bring Weapons_ - CZW: Tournament of Death II

*Dragon Gate*
YAMATO Vs Naruki Doi - Compilation Gate 2010


----------



## Bubz

Glad you liked Kobashi/Akiyama, One of my favorite matches and definitely my favorite NOAH match.


----------



## Fighter Daron

Bubz said:


> Glad you liked Kobashi/Akiyama, One of my favorite matches and definitely my favorite NOAH match.


Maybe it's mine too, but Sasaki/Kobashi was too great.


----------



## Chismo

EDIT: nvm.


----------



## Cactus

*Michinoku-Pro 10/10/1996*
Kaientai DX vs Gran Hamada, Super Delfin, Tiger Mask IV, Gran Naniwa & Masato Yakushiji
_They said it could never happen... but it did. 'Smackdown Number One Announcer' finally has a 5 star match. Seriously, check this shit out. It doesn't have any deep rooted psychology, but it does have the next best thing, FILPS~! It not your typical mindless botch-ridden spotfest though. It has some of the coolest sequences I've ever seen in a wrestling ring, all done at hyper speed. Not a dull moment to be found in this 30-plus minute match, nor botch for that matter. _
*******


----------



## Yeah1993

Funaki rocked outside McMahonLand, he has real good shit in BattlARTS. Anybody know what he's doing currently?


----------



## Violent By Design

Bill Dundee vs Jerry Lawler - Loser Leaves Town - 30/12/85

A lot more interesting than their previous Loser Leaves Town match, though the ending wasn't as epic.

Great punches by Dundee, and I love the story of a wrestler fighting blind. Should be done more often.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Doesn't get better than this.

honorable mention:
Chono/Mutoh vs Hase/Sasaki on 11/1/90. ****3/4-*****.


----------



## Bubz

I'm adding Akiyama vs SUWAMA from this year. Fucking loved it.


----------



## seabs

Yeah1993 said:


> Funaki rocked outside McMahonLand, he has real good shit in BattlARTS. Anybody know what he's doing currently?


*He's popped up in some Togo retirement matches and some stuff in ZERO-1. Nothing of mention though. He seems to have put on a lot of weight and seems to just be coasting in multi man matches.*


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Violent By Design said:


> Bill Dundee vs Jerry Lawler - Loser Leaves Town - 30/12/85
> 
> A lot more interesting than their previous Loser Leaves Town match, though the ending wasn't as epic.
> 
> Great punches by Dundee, and I love the story of a wrestler fighting blind. Should be done more often.


YES YES, FUCK FUCK FUCK YES. EVERYONE FOLLOW THIS MAN AND WATCH THE GOD-DAMN MATCH, PURO CAN WAIT, ACCEPT LAWLER INTO YOUR HEARTS AND EMBRACE HIS BELLY AND PUNCHES.


----------



## Flux

Never posted in this thread so I thought i'd just say hello.

But yeah, have been flicking through some stuff from 2001 and in terms of entertainment value, not technical wrestling but entertainment, does anybody find the Jericho/Benoit ladder match from the Royal Rumble in 01 very entertaining, and I presume underated? I haven't heard a lot of talk about it, but I loved every second of it. From an entertainment point of view, it was pretty high in my opinion. Maybe not a five star match, but it's pretty damn good. Thoughts?


----------



## peachchaos

FluxCapacitor said:


> Never posted in this thread so I thought i'd just say hello.
> does anybody find the Jericho/Benoit ladder match from the Royal Rumble in 01 very entertaining, and I presume underated? I haven't heard a lot of talk about it, but I loved every second of it. From an entertainment point of view, it was pretty high in my opinion. Maybe not a five star match, but it's pretty damn good. Thoughts?


I think I commented about this a few pages back. Haven't watched this in years but I remember having it around ****1/2 and it sticks in my head as probably the best ladder match I've ever seen. I'll check it out tonight and post a review in this thread.


----------



## ywall2breakerj

My TNA list:
AJ Styles vs Samoa joe vs Christopher Daniels-Unbreakable 2005
AJ Styles vs Christopher Daniels-Bound For Glory 2005
AJ Styles & Christopher Daniels vs LAX-Ultimate X
My ROH list:
Ladder War I
Punk vs Joe II
Kobashi vs Joe


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Three Orange Whips said:


> Yeah1993 if Jumbo Tsuruta was a member of the Wu Tang Clan who would he be and why.





Yeah1993 said:


> No idea who they are.


You disgust me.


----------



## Violent By Design

I never cared much for the Benoit and Jericho ladder match. I would have much rather prefer they just had a normal 1 fall bout. 



antoniomare007 said:


> look at Yeah1993 pimping Hash matches, it's almost as if he actually watched them...I only he wrote a review about them to be sure that he did :side:
> 
> I would add to that list the 93' Hase match, the 94' Liger match, 96' vs Takada (2nd best IWGP defense behind the Hase one, imo) and the Zero-1 debut show main event tag against Misawa/Akiyama.
> 
> ohhh, and he had an amazing feud against Yamazaki.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the title matches they have against each other are awesome. (the 86' match
> http://www.megaupload.com/?d=782AYWSA and SuperClash 1987 http://www.megaupload.com/?d=MA5PATJT)


Nick Bockwinkel vs Curt Hennig AWA SuperClash II 5.2.1987 


This match is fantastic. The best AWA match I've seen and the best from either competitor. This is the classic wrastling I expect from AWA.


----------



## Cactus

Another one for the list. Do Fixer vs Blood Generation from ROH Supercard of Honor 2006 manages to get a borderline 5 star rating from me. The build-up to big spotfest at the end wasn't that entertaining and the ref count botches did irk me somewhat. Still, it's just not enough to make not go the full monty on this one. It's at the 'bottom' of my list, but it's still a all-time classic.


----------



## Yeah1993

FluxCapacitor said:


> Never posted in this thread so I thought i'd just say hello.
> 
> But yeah, have been flicking through some stuff from 2001 and in terms of entertainment value, not technical wrestling but entertainment, does anybody find the Jericho/Benoit ladder match from the Royal Rumble in 01 very entertaining, and I presume underated? I haven't heard a lot of talk about it, but I loved every second of it. From an entertainment point of view, it was pretty high in my opinion. Maybe not a five star match, but it's pretty damn good. Thoughts?


Wouldn't call it underrated; the consensous to me is that if HBK/Razor isn't the top ladder match ever, then this is.



Andy3000 said:


> You disgust me.





Andy would said I disgust him said:


> Wound up with an Australian chick last night. Pretty sure I fit four fingers in her vagina.


----------



## Chismo

Edit: nvm


----------



## Cactus

Motherfucker, you crazy? I haven't seen any Dragon Gate before, but the 'no tags' rule is just in place to keep everyone in control. I don't get what you mean by business exposing though. I don't see what it was exposing.


----------



## Scavo

I agree with JoeRulz here. Look at the beggining of the match Cactus, and listen to what commentators say. And then watch when all hell brokes loose. You'll have to get.

If it wasn't for the first 10ish minutes, that match would definitely be 5 stars.


----------



## Cactus

Yeah but 3/4*? Were the moves in that match not enough to like it a bit more? Some of the spots blew my mind.


----------



## SuperDuperSonic

I want McQueen's input.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Its a nice spotfest with a bunch of amazingly pulled off spots (from memory I don't recall a single botch or at least a noticeable one) which always gets credit from me when they're pulled off perfectly given the degree of difficulty. Still its not close to a ***** match, I won't necessarily call it 'bad' since it was obviously set up to showcase DG to the ROH crowd and thus its objective was to wow them and show off the style to a whole new market, instead of a storytelling epic with great character work and selling. It did its job and was as good a match as possible given what they were going for, still it really lacked anything I look for in a match (character, selling, control, build, little subtle touches) so I'm never going to like it that much.

Still I don't 'hate' it since it made sense for them to have an exhibition showcase, if it had been say a culmination of an angle taking place in ROH between the teams then I'd be shitting on it for needing more depth and emotion. As it is whilst I certainly wouldn't rank it a great or even good match, I can't fault it for lacking what I love in a match since it only had one primary objective which was to demonstrate the ability and uniqueness of Dragon Gate, and the crowd reaction proved they got that objective over.

But yeah as a comparison I'd call Miz vs Lawler Elimination Chamber a better match.


----------



## Cactus

Miz vs Lawler? I'm not sure if that's an insult or a compliment. That match gets the most mixed reaction ever. I like it quite a bit (****1/4 - ***1/2*), but others not so much. Caida, thoughts?


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I'd say around ***1/2 is fair, probably had it closer to ***3/4 live just because I'm a massive Lawler mark and they structured a really good match that built to some good nearfalls and spots that made it look like Lawler could win, Miz being thrown into Cole and the Riley interference back-firing etc. Thought it could have done with the patented Lawler comeback since I think Miz's character is tailor made to bump like a maniac for Lawler's superman punches, the lack of that comeback and a more drawn out finishing stretch stops it from going into 'fucking awesome' but I was satisfied with everything else and thought they did as well as possible trying to make the Lawler angle believeable to the audience as well as working within his obvious physical limitations for a 60 year old man.

I wouldn't really see how Lawler/Miz being a better match to me is a criticism, the DG tag was set up entirely differently so it would obviously lack the emotion, character and story that made Lawler/Miz so strong but yeah Lawler/Miz had what I enjoy in my wrestling these days to the point where I'd comfortably call it the better match. It could be a moot point though since both matches were deliberately structured to be polar opposites: since they're objectives and what the match was about were obviously stark contrasts.


----------



## antoniomare007

It's classic Lawler so of course Caida loves that match .

It wasn't as good as Flair vs Edge but it was still awesome. It's almost the complete opposite to DF vs BG at Supercard of Honor though. I don't see much of a point of comparing them unless you want to make clear what kind of wrestling you like the most.


----------



## Violent By Design

Do-Fixer vs Blood Generation is pretty exciting. I'm a fan of the match.

I don't really get how it "super exposes" the business though lol.


----------



## bigbuxxx

JoeRulz said:


> That match is horrible, like SUPER business-exposing horrible. *3/4**, and I'm not even kidding.
> 
> Btw, I have a question about DG tags? Commentators keep saying that tags are not needed, but wrestlers do it anyway. Then in finishing stretch there is no tags. Mind fucking...:no:


I've asked this in the DG thread but nobody answers . Anyhow, I'd give that match 5*. I found it entertaining and engaging for the full length of the bout and the atmosphere for the last 5 or so minutes when everybody was standing up was incredible and special.


----------



## SuperDuperSonic

I recall showing it to my dad during WM23 weekend. Then when we watched WM23, he said nothing could live up to that match until Batista vs. Taker came on. (In hindsight though, the MITB was tremendous and just as great as almost any DG 6 Man I've ever seen.)


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I'd put both title matches at Wrestlemania 23 over the DG 6 man, can't honestly remember much from that MITB. Can't imagine it would beat Number 1 though as my favourite, simply because Benoit managed to create an engaging sub story into the match which payed off in the finish. Smackdown's MITB this year also gets a lot of love simply because Bryan won and I thought they did a better than usual job of delivering believeable false finishes.


----------



## Chismo

Edit: nvm


----------



## topper1

What is really come's down to is how high a person is willing to rate a spot fest. 

Personally I'm not willing to go over **** on most. 

On one hand the wrestler's went out there to put on that kind of match and they did it damn well and the crowd loved it. On the other hand it was more like a gym show then a fight, they went totally against the basic's and some could say made wrestling look fake with all the high impact spot's and lack of selling.


----------



## Bubz

DG six man is really fun IMO, I prefer the SOH III one though.


----------



## seabs

*With DG tags you don't HAVE to tag your partner to make them legal, you can just roll out of the ring and then your partner can run in and become legal. They normally actually tag in and out during the middle portion of a match when one team has control of the match and then during the chaotic start and finish segments they just roll in and out.*


----------



## starship.paint

Tags aren't needed in DG. The wrestlers just do it for show. Looks to me like anyone can be legal. There are spots where all three wrestlers on the same team are in the ring, one of them putting an opponent in a submission and the other two stand in the ring to block the other opponents from coming in. The babyface wrestlers usually want to make the physical tag during a face-in-peril situation because they have honor, I guess.

****1/2 for DG Supercard of Honor I

Still don't have any five stars, heh. Not likely I'll ever rate anything five stars since I'm mainly sticking to DG and recent WWE. Might check out some Tozawa matches from his US Tour but I don't think anyone's rated any of his matches five stars.


----------



## Violent By Design

yeah, I dont get how them tagging is a contradiction. I see the same thing in certain Lucha Libre tag matches, where they do not need to make a physical tag, but they do it anyway (why not? it's basically another form of communication). DG based their rules off a certain Lucha Libre match, so when a guy falls out the ring, the other guy is allowed to come in.

As for every thing else, it's just as inconsistent as any other tag match. I can't think of too many tag matches where guys are not cheating and the ref isn't doing anything about it.


----------



## Bubz

starship.paint said:


> Tags aren't needed in DG. The wrestlers just do it for show. Looks to me like anyone can be legal. There are spots where all three wrestlers on the same team are in the ring, one of them putting an opponent in a submission and the other two stand in the ring to block the other opponents from coming in. The babyface wrestlers usually want to make the physical tag during a face-in-peril situation because they have honor, I guess.
> 
> ****1/2 for DG Supercard of Honor I
> 
> Still don't have any five stars, heh. Not likely I'll ever rate anything five stars since I'm mainly sticking to DG and recent WWE. *Might check out some Tozawa matches from his US Tour but I don't think anyone's rated any of his matches five stars.*


Nah, nothing that high, but definitely worth watching. Both his matches with Hero and his tag with Steen against Generico/Ricochet are in the ****1/2 range (for me anyway).


----------



## Cactus

Yeah. Thinking about it again, the DG tag match wasn't anything apart from the spots. I really can't give it the full five. ****1/2 at most. 





*AJPW 10/25/1995*
Kenta Kobashi vs Mitsuharu Misawa
_Carrying on with my viewing of the Kobashi vs Misawa Dozen, I'm now on their forth match. This match is historically significant for two reasons. First of, it's the first of many times when these went over 30 minutes, and secondly, it's the first time the Triple Crown is on the line. What makes this stands out from the rest is that, Kobashi not only hits a lariat in the first five minutes, but also a devastating Orange Crush. Misawa just gets squashed for the first 10 minutes. Phenomenal match. _
*******


----------



## Fighter Daron

I'd give ****1/2 because never expect Kobashi to win, it lacks drama in the end.


----------



## antoniomare007

Fighter Daron said:


> I'd give ****1/2 because never expect Kobashi to win, it lacks drama in the end.


check your PMs


----------



## Fighter Daron

antoniomare007 said:


> check your PMs


Te intenté responder en su momento, pero tienes la bandeja llena, lo que te iba a decir es que a Solowrestling le suele pasar eso, si envías un Mail a Deathdrop o Sebas te lo solucionará.

Sorry, but I had to talk in spanish, now, back on topic and english xD


----------



## EricYoung'sBeard

The Rock vs. Hulk Hogan - WM18
Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat - Spring Stampede '94
Dean Malenko vs. Chris Benoit - Hog Wild '96
Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon (ladder) - WM10
The Steiner Brothers vs. Sting and Lex Luger - SuperBrawl '91
Ricky Steamboat vs. Randy Savage - WM3
Eddy Guerrero vs. Dean Malenko - Uncensored '97
Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart - WM13
Ric Flair vs. Sting - Clash of the Champions '88
Hulk Hogan vs. Andre The Giant - WM3
Rey Misterio Jr. vs. Eddy Guerrero - Halloween Havoc '97
1992 Royal Rumble


----------



## bigbuxxx

A few more added to my list after watching Best of NJPW in the 90s:

Shinjiro Ohtani vs. Ultimo Dragon on 8/4/96. Good luck finding a better junior match than this.
El Samurai vs. Kanemoto on 6/5/97.
Jushin Liger vs. Shinjiro Ohtani on 2/9/97
Jushin Liger vs. Great Sasuke on 7/8/94.

****7/8 match:
Jushin Liger vs. Owen Hart on 4/27/91.


----------



## Fighter Daron

Wow, like a wrestling match, it was very good, Taue didn't allow Maru to go all that flashy and overkill, it was short, 13 minutes, but the fucking Budokan run wild with Naomichi, why was that match that important? *******


----------



## Bubz

Fighter Daron said:


> Wow, like a wrestling match, it was very good, Taue didn't allow Maru to go all that flashy and overkill, it was short, 13 minutes, but the fucking Budokan run wild with Naomichi, why was that match that important? *******


Incredible match for that length. Some of Marufuji's counters are so awesome. Taue is amazing in that match. NOAH in 03, 04, 05 and 06 was great stuff.


----------



## Chismo

Yeah, Marufuji's matches with heavyweight veterans were awesome in 2006, and when you watch those matches, it becomes clear as day why they booked him to win the GHC Hewiki.


----------



## This_Guy

EricYoung'sBeard said:


> *The Rock vs. Hulk Hogan - WM18*
> Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat - Spring Stampede '94
> Dean Malenko vs. Chris Benoit - Hog Wild '96
> Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon (ladder) - WM10
> The Steiner Brothers vs. Sting and Lex Luger - SuperBrawl '91
> Ricky Steamboat vs. Randy Savage - WM3
> Eddy Guerrero vs. Dean Malenko - Uncensored '97
> Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart - WM13
> Ric Flair vs. Sting - Clash of the Champions '88
> *Hulk Hogan vs. Andre The Giant - WM3*
> Rey Misterio Jr. vs. Eddy Guerrero - Halloween Havoc '97
> 1992 Royal Rumble


I lulz'd.

'Nuff Said.


----------



## Fighter Daron

Hogan Vs Rock is a five stars match, what?


----------



## bigbuxxx

Added the match above to my list. Doesn't get better than Jumbo vs Misawa.


----------



## Henry Hill

I personally find them both overrated but I don't understand how someone can knock Rock/Hogan as a five star match yet praise Cena/Punk in the same way. Neither matches are technically sound but both had electric atmosphere, awesome crowd interaction and a cool little story going in. If Cena and Punk had wrestled like Benoit and Bret Hart then I would understand but fact is they didn't and Rock/Hogan has just as much claim to being a five star match as their bout does.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Henry Hill said:


> fact is they didn't and Rock/Hogan has just as much claim to being a five star match as their bout does.


no. punk/cena put on an exciting match in an exciting atmosphere where the winner was in doubt. punk/cena, while having botches still had a great match. rock/hogan put on a garbage match, with a garbage storyline, where the winner was never in doubt. by your logic we should just go ahead and give cena/rock 5* right now because it will be an incredible atmosphere and a garbage storyline. 

also adding to my list:
michaels vs undertaker @ WM 25. watched this around a month ago after having not seen it since it happened and it is an incredible match. i then watched the rematch and that is the most overrated pile of garbage i've ever seen. it's on par with hhh/undertaker this year which i gave something like ***1/4 to.


----------



## Henry Hill

bigbuxxx said:


> no. punk/cena put on an exciting match in an exciting atmosphere where the winner was in doubt. punk/cena, while having botches still had a great match. rock/hogan put on a garbage match, with a garbage storyline, where the winner was never in doubt. by your logic we should just go ahead and give cena/rock 5* right now because it will be an incredible atmosphere and a garbage storyline.
> 
> also adding to my list:
> michaels vs undertaker @ WM 25. watched this around a month ago after having not seen it since it happened and it is an incredible match. i then watched the rematch and that is the most overrated pile of garbage i've ever seen. it's on par with hhh/undertaker this year which i gave something like ***1/4 to.


You thought the winner was in doubt? The second they announced the firing stipulation I knew Punk was going to win. Take that away and both matches are exciting in an exciting atmosphere. Besides I'm sure most people who mock Hogan and Rock's claims of it being a five star match do so for the mediocre wrestling not because they weren't engaged by the action. What we have is two electrically charged mediocre wrestling matches and I don't see much difference in quality. And you can't praise the storyline going in and then merely discard the shit that came afterwards. It's all part of the package. I took HBK and Flair down a star when Flair ruined his retirement.


----------



## Fighter Daron

There's a great difference in quality, don't fuck me. Still, I'd give the five stars to both.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Henry Hill said:


> You thought the winner was in doubt? The second they announced the firing stipulation I knew Punk was going to win.


silly me for actually being a wrestling fan and enjoying something instead of analyzing something to death.



Henry Hill said:


> And you can't praise the storyline going in and then merely discard the shit that came afterwards.


actually i can because up until that point it was perfect (the storyline and match). what happened afterwards is retarded. if i stopped watching wrestling after the match can i call it 5*? it was always going to be the climax of the story because there was nowhere to go after that. w/e though, it's just preference. i enjoy watching rock/hogan and probably could all day but it's not as good in any way as punk/cena.


----------



## Henry Hill

bigbuxxx said:


> silly me for actually being a wrestling fan and enjoying something instead of analyzing something to death.
> 
> 
> 
> actually i can because up until that point it was perfect (the storyline and match). what happened afterwards is retarded. if i stopped watching wrestling after the match can i call it 5*? it was always going to be the climax of the story because there was nowhere to go after that. w/e though, it's just preference. i enjoy watching rock/hogan and probably could all day but it's not as good in any way as punk/cena.


I'm not analyzing it to death, you mentioned that one of the positives of the match was not knowing who was going to win but wwe have done so many firing angles in the past half decade that as soon as another one came up I knew Cena was going to lose and then be back again either within a matter of days or weeks. 

As exciting as the match was, I can't reward mediocre wrestling five stars. It'd be like calling Titanic a masterpiece for its spectacle in spite of its average screenplay.


----------



## Violent By Design

Some good matches I've recently watched.


- Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee - Loser Leaves Town - 1986

- Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle - Summerslam 2001

- Jerry Lawler vs Dutch Mantell - No DQ Match - 1982

- Ron Garvin vs Tully Blanchard - 1986


----------



## Captain Edd

The Rock vs. Chris Jericho at the Royal Rumble 2002 is one of my favorites, I also just finished watching Summerslam 1997 for the 100th time and still think Bret Hart vs. The Undertaker with Michaels as the referee is an outstanding match.


----------



## Obfuscation

A 5 star match imo? Here we go:

Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat ~ _NWA Clash of the Champions VI_

Best of their series if you ask me.


----------



## BKKsoulcity

Richards and Edwards 2 has been probably the only match i've watched over 3 times


----------



## Bubz

Hailsabin said:


> A 5 star match imo? Here we go:
> 
> Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat ~ _NWA Clash of the Champions VI_
> 
> Best of their series if you ask me.


That's the 2/3 falls match isn't it? if it is it's one of the best ever imo. Their other matches in the trilogy are great but that's the only one I would put at 5*.


----------



## Cactus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWbZqJtswF8

Finally got around to seeing Jumbo vs Tenryu '89 and I have to say, it's got to be in top 5 matches of all-time list. The crowd was awesome. Seeing them trying to argue with the ref after the near falls shows how emotionally drawn into the match they were. The counters both men performed were brilliant and shown how desperate they were to pick up the victory. Easily the best match of the 1980's and a serious contender to greatest match of all-time.



> *WWF/E:*
> Randy Savage vs Ricky Steamboat (3/29/1987)
> Bret Hart vs Mr. Perfect (6/13/1993)
> Owen Hart vs Bret Hart (Cage) (8/29/1994)
> Steve Austin vs Bret Hart (Submission) (3/23/1997)
> The Hardyz vs Edge & Christian Vs The Dudley Boyz (TLC) (8/27/2000)
> Steve Austin vs The Rock (4/1/2001)
> Steve Austin & Triple H vs Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit (5/21/2001)
> Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle (1/19/2003)
> Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker (4/5/2009)
> John Cena vs CM Punk (7/17/2011)
> 
> *JCP/NWA/WCW:*
> Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat (5/29/1984)
> Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat (2/3 Falls) (4/2/1989)
> Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat (3/18/1989) (Landover show)
> Ric Flair vs Terry Funk (I Quit) (11/15/1989)
> 
> *ROH:*
> Samoa Joe vs Kenta Kobashi (10/1/2005)
> 
> *NOAH:*
> Kenta Kobashi vs Mitsuharu Misawa (3/1/2003)
> Kenta Kobashi vs Jun Akiyama (7/10/2004)
> Kenta Kobashi & Go Shiozaki vs Kensuke Sasaki & Katsuhiko Nakajima (5/11/2005)
> 
> *AJPW:*
> The Funks vs Bruiser Brody & Jimmy Snuka (12/13/1981)
> The Funks vs Stan Hansen & Terry Gordy (8/31/1983)
> Jumbo Tsurata vs Genichiro Tenryu (6/5/1989(
> Jumbo Tsurata vs Mitsuharu Misawa (6/8/1990)
> Jumbo Tsurata vs Toshiaki Kawada (10/24/1991)
> Dan Kroffat & Doug Furnas vs Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi
> Kikuchi (5/25/1992)
> Mitsuharu Misawa vs Akira Taue (15/4/1995)
> Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (6/9/1995)
> Mitsuharu Misawa vs Kenta Kobashi (10/25/1995)
> 
> *M-Pro:*
> Kaientai DX vs Gran Hamada, Super Delfin, Tiger Mask IV, Gran Naniwa & Masato Yakushiji (10/10/1996)
> 
> *AJW:*
> Dynamite Kansai & Mayumi Ozaki vs Manami Toyota & Toshiyo Yamada (12/06/1993)
> Aja Kong vs Manami Toyota (11/20/1994)
> 
> *PWG:*
> Kevin Steen vs El Generico (Ladder) (11/23/2011)


----------



## Obfuscation

Bubz said:


> That's the 2/3 falls match isn't it? if it is it's one of the best ever imo. Their other matches in the trilogy are great but that's the only one I would put at 5*.


Indeed. It's their absolute best imo. I love everything about the match. I'm in the minority, but while WrestleWar was a GREAT match, I always preferred Chi-Town Rumble over it too. What more can you ask for in a series of matches though? Flat out unbelievable.


----------



## Cactus

Hailsabin said:


> Indeed. It's their absolute best imo. I love everything about the match. I'm in the minority, but while WrestleWar was a GREAT match, I always preferred Chi-Town Rumble over it too. What more can you ask for in a series of matches though? Flat out unbelievable.


I really struggle to name a better American match than the 2/3 Falls Flair versus Steamboat match. I never was the biggest fan of the Chi-Town Rumble match though.


----------



## Obfuscation

It's insane. It really is. It's a 55 minute match and it literally goes by as if it is only 20. To have those guys go out there and showcase wrestling as an art form is awe inspiring.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

The Clash match is the best US match ever, IMO (#2 overall).

The Wrestlewar and Chi-Town Rumble matches are both terrific as well, but Clash is just fucking amazing. They have two house show matches from the same day (3/17/89) that are right at the level of Wrestlewar and Chi-Town. Two matches that good in the same day. Crazy shit. And it's not like they wrestled the same match, either. Shit, the second match even has a spot that plays off the finish of the first one.


----------



## Cactus

Got a new one.

*PWG Steen Wolf*
*PWG World Championship - Ladder Match*
Kevin Steen (c) vs El Generico
_For a match to get the full 5 from me in 2011, you're going to have to leave me shaking and marking like a school child. Taking into factor the post-match stuff, this did just that. Steen and Generico have fantastic chemistry and they are so convincing that they actually hate each other. The best match from any indie promotion and I have ever seen and possibly the best ladder match too. _
*******


----------



## Obfuscation

Andy3000 said:


> The Clash match is the best US match ever, IMO (#2 overall).
> 
> The Wrestlewar and Chi-Town Rumble matches are both terrific as well, but Clash is just fucking amazing. They have two house show matches from the same day (3/17/89) that are right at the level of Wrestlewar and Chi-Town. Two matches that good in the same day. Crazy shit. And it's not like they wrestled the same match, either. Shit, the second match even has a spot that plays off the finish of the first one.


jesus fuck that's unbelievable.

Here are two more I've given 5 stars to:

Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness ~ _ROH World Championship & ROH Pure Championship Unification_ ~ _ROH Unified_

Bryan Danielson vs KENTA ~ _ROH World Championship_ ~ _ROH Glory By Honor V Night Two_

Ohhhhhhhhhh yes.


----------



## Chismo

Yeah... Basically, I'd like to add Steen vs. Generico from Steen Wolf. ~WAR


----------



## bigbuxxx

Cactus said:


> Got a new one.
> 
> *PWG Steen Wolf*
> *PWG World Championship - Ladder Match*
> Kevin Steen (c) vs El Generico
> _For a match to get the full 5 from me in 2011, you're going to have to leave me shaking and marking like a school child. Taking into factor the post-match stuff, this did just that. Steen and Generico have fantastic chemistry and they are so convincing that they actually hate each other. The best match from any indie promotion and I have ever seen and possibly the best ladder match too. _
> *******





JoeRulz said:


> Yeah... Basically, I'd like to add Steen vs. Generico from Steen Wolf. ~WAR


gonna get to this tonight. hope to be back in this thread pimping it to.


----------



## Obfuscation

At this rate I can't see how that isn't gonna be my MOTY too, haha.


----------



## Bubz

Yep, I'm adding Steen/Generico from Steen Wolf to mine too. Amazing.


----------



## Bubz

I've finally got around to re-watching most of the Dragon/Nigel matches, and 6YA is the best one imo. I just watched this tonight and I don't remember it being so fucking amazing. It's perfect. Dragon saying he wouldn't go after Nigel's head because of the concussion he suffered in his last match with Aries, Nigel saying he wouldn't compete and then delivering an absolutely unbeatable amazing character performance in the match, gradually getting more and more pissed off with the crowd booing him and turning full blown heel in the process of the match. Nigel getting too cocky and giving Dragon chances to make a comeback, Bryan keeping to his word and not going after the head but the body instead (he doesn't throw one strike to the head at all), Nigel USING HIS HEAD AS A WEAPON TO INJURE DANIELSONS INJURED EYE! Holy shit, it doesn't get better than that from a storytelling and character perspective. The best Dragon/Nigel match, and maybe, maybe the best ROH match ever. If not then it is easily in my top 3.

EDIT! Sorry for double post btw.


----------



## topper1

Although I don't think I would go the full 5 I agree with all your points and it is most certainly a top notch match and right up there with the best between them which is saying something.


----------



## Yeah1993

I definitely think that's the best ROH match I've seen and probably a top 3 match of the 2000s. I have a question about it though, Dragon's leg was taped; where'd that stem from? Nigel only got one shot on it IIRC and I don't remember the commentators talking it up.


----------



## Horselover Fat

I have 1,993 five star matches


----------



## Yeah1993

I'm hoping at least 25 of them have Vader in it


----------



## Horselover Fat

hhh vs. kevin nash ladder match is one of them


----------



## Yeah1993

I heard Nash and Trip were more mobile than expected.


----------



## Horselover Fat

kevin nash made the wwe cool again


----------



## Obfuscation

That match felt like it was going in reverse because they were so slow.


----------



## TelkEvolon

WCW said:


> hhh vs. kevin nash ladder match is one of them





WCW said:


> kevin nash made the wwe cool again




Your opinions are wrong.


----------



## Horselover Fat

TelkEvolon said:


> Your opinions are wrong.


come say that to my face


----------



## TelkEvolon

WCW said:


> come say that to my face


:shocked:

You. Serious. Bro.


----------



## Bubz

Yeah1993 said:


> I definitely think that's the best ROH match I've seen and probably a top 3 match of the 2000s. I have a question about it though, Dragon's leg was taped; where'd that stem from? Nigel only got one shot on it IIRC and I don't remember the commentators talking it up.


I was thinking the same thing. I have no idea what happened to Dragon, but they didn't factor it into the match at all apart from one kick from Nigel pretty early on.


----------



## Violent By Design

Can't say I agree with any Stein vs Generico match being 5 star. They're good matches, but I don't really buy into "brutality" type of matches that much.


----------



## TelkEvolon

I think I could almost got the full 5 for the Steen vs Generico Final Battle match.

It's been about a year later and already it feels like such an iconic match.

Amazing year long build to an awesome story driven brawl that played on their past.

Even the fact that in storyline it wasn't apart of the show and the warning that Bobby Cruize gave the fans before the match.


The Ladder Match wasn't even close in my mind. Still a great match, but it didn't have anywhere near as much meaning, build or drama. Might of had crazier spots though.


----------



## Flux

Generico vs. Steen at FB10 is one of my all time favourite matches. Just watched it again and it just sucks all of the emotion out of you, and I've seen it a good seven or eight times. Amazing build up, amazing match and at tha rate ROH is going, amazing follow up as well. One of the easiest ***** i've ever given, to be honest.


----------



## pizzajoel

I don't think you understand 5 star match. I've got a list of matches I like, but I wouldn't call them all 5-star. It's totally fine you like Angles stuff, but you have his match with Matt Morgan for goodness sake. That's Michael Cole quality overselling.


----------



## Cactus

Two more to add...

*Ricky Steamboat vs “Nature Boy” Ric Flair - JCP 5/29/1984 - World Heavyweight Championship*
_A hidden gem in the Flair/Steamboat series. Possibly their best match. The only match that is on the same level is the Clash Of The Champions in 1989. They wrestled in front of a tough crowd that heckled the early stages of the match with chants of 'Flair's a queer' and 'Boring' during Steamboat's long headlock. In fear of losing the crowd, Flair escapes the headlock and the two do a brilliant two minute sequence. The crowd are now red-hot and after that short sequence, not one person was booing the action. That shows you how good these two men are. This was a stupidly exciting match that left me wondering what would happen next._
*******

*Ricky “The Dragon” Steamboat vs Randy “Macho Man” Savage - WWF Wrestlemania III - Intercontinental Championship*
_I've always thought this match was overrated, but on this viewing, I loved it. So many nearfalls and so much action for a 15 minute match. Add on top of that a mental crowd and plenty of drama and you got yourself an all-time classic. _
*******​


----------



## bigbuxxx

Cactus said:


> *Ricky “The Dragon” Steamboat vs Randy “Macho Man” Savage - WWF Wrestlemania III - Intercontinental Championship*
> _I've always thought this match was overrated, but on this viewing, I loved it. So many nearfalls and so much action for a 15 minute match. Add on top of that a mental crowd and plenty of drama and you got yourself an all-time classic. _
> *******[/CENTER]


I always thought this was underrated. Almost nobody puts it at >****1/2. I also have it at 5 and it's not even close to be less than that. Perfect match.

I've never posted my list so here it goes. This goes w/o rating a lot of matches I've watched like bryan/nigel @ unified despite watching it like 5 times and same for HDA vs misawa/kobashi on 6/9/95. Also lots of AJPW stuff still to get to.

*AJPW*
Tenryu vs Kawada - 10/28/00
Kawada/Taue vs Kobashi/Misawa - 12/3/93
Misawa vs Kawada - 6/3/94
Misawa vs Jumbo - Champions Carnival 92
Misawa/Kawada/Kikuchi vs Taue/Jumbo/Fuchi - 8/18/90
Jumbo vs Tenryu - 6/5/89
Jumbo vs Misawa - 6/8/90
Jumbo vs Kawada - 10/24/91
Kawada vs Tsuruta - 10/24/91
Suzuki vs. Sawama - 8/29/10

*NJPW*
Goto vs Tanahashi - 11/11/07
Shinjiro Ohtani vs. Ultimo Dragon - 8/4/96.
El Samurai vs. Kanemoto - 6/5/97.
Jushin Liger vs. Shinjiro Ohtani - 2/9/97
Jushin Liger vs. Great Sasuke - 7/8/94

*WWF/E*
Austin vs Hart - WM XIII
Steamboat vs Savage - WMIII
Michaels vs Undertaker - WM XXV
Punk vs Cena - MitB
Benoit vs HHH vs HBK - WM XX
Angle/Benoit vs Edge/Mysterio - No Mercy 2002
Bret vs Owen - WM X
Rock vs Austin - WM X-7
TLC II - WM X-7

*Others*
McGuiness vs Aries - Rising Above 07
Flair vs Steamboat - WWar89
MCMG vs Briscoes - GTGM
Generico vs Claudio - Kurt Russell Reunion 2
Kobashi vs Joe
NVC vs Generico/Ricochet - ASW8


----------



## MutatedKevin

*WWE*
Steamboat vs Savage - WM III
Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon - WM X
Shawn Michaels vs Mankind - Mind Games
Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker - Badd Blood 97
Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker - WM XXVI
Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit - Royal Rumble 03
Kurt Angle/ Chris Benoit vs Edge/Rey Mysterio - No Mercy 02
Bret Hart/Owen Hart vs Rick and Scott Stiner - Raw 94?
Bret Hart vs Owen Hart - WM X
Bret Hart vs Stone Cold - WM XIII
Stone Cold vs The Rock - WM XVII
CM Punk vs John Cena - Money in the Bank 11

*WCW*
Steamboat vs Ric Flair - Clash of Champions VI
Sting vs Ric Flair - Clash of Champions I
Jushin Liger vs Brian Pillman - Superbrawl 92
Chris Benoit vs Kevin Sullivan - GAB 96
Rey Misterio vs Eddie Guerrero - Havoc 97

*ROH*
CM Punk vs Samoa Joe II
Kevin Steen vs El Generico - Final Battle 10
Tyler Black vs Davey Richards - DBD VIII
Bryan Danielson vs Takeshi Morishima - MM II
Bryan Danielson vs Low-Ki - RRC
Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness- Unified
Bryan Danielson & Tyler Black vs The American Wolves - Tag Title Classic


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

People have been pimping Savage/Steamboat as a "***** match" for about 25 years now. There's no way in Hell it's underrated. 

I never thought it was THAT good, but I watched the entire feud again a couple years ago and it "clicked" for me at that point. It's a tremendous match. I watched it as part of a greatest WWF/E match ever poll and I think I had it at #3 in the end, which is WAAAAY higher than I would've had it a year earlier. The lead-in match from Toronto is excellent as well. Kind of kills the "Steamboat never brought the hate" argument that gets thrown at the Wrestlemania match (which is an argument I had made countless times myself), in that Steamboat brings the hate in the Toronto match and it doesn't get him shit. He busts Savage open, beats the shit out of him...and still loses. By the time Wrestlemania rolled around, it was time to try something else.


Danielson/Nigel from 6YA is likely my #1 match in ROH history. Probably Nigel's career performance. The way he riled up the ROH smarks to the point where they started a fucking "USA" chant is nuts.


----------



## Violent By Design

Randy Savage vs Steamboat is amongst the most heralded matches, and it is probably Steamboat's most famous match.

I suppose you could say it is underrated in this thread since it did not get many mentions.


Randy Savage vs Steamboat just clicks, even though they don't do anything special, it's still a very breezy watch. It's overrated in some ways, but the two were on that night and they put on an entertaining performance.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Violent By Design said:


> Randy Savage vs Steamboat is amongst the most heralded matches, and it is probably Steamboat's most famous match.
> 
> I suppose you could say it is underrated in this thread since it did not get many mentions.


that's what i mean in addition to seeing it get < 5 in the wwe dvd thread many times


----------



## Yeah1993

Violent By Design said:


> I suppose you could say it is underrated in this thread since it did not get many mentions.


Not really. I mean it didn't get many metions ITT, yeah, but I'm betting most think it's still a great match despite the lack of five star opinions.


----------



## topper1

Just watched Steamboat vs Savage to make sure I wasn't crazy in the past and I still have it at about **** 1/4 I just can't go higher on it then that. I just don't see what is so amazing about it.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Seabs said:


> *The Boston Street Fight was probably the best of the series and that's damn close to being 5* as well.*


digging up this post from 10/19. finally watched this match again. this match is very hard to rate. it's really not a wrestling match. their ladder match was easier to rate than this. this was 4 guys that had an issue that beat the holy hell out of each other. it's incredibly fun to watch but idk what i'd rate it.

been watching old ROH classics all day and some thoughts:
KENTA vs Danielson - GBH V: easy *****. KENTA is one merciless sob.
KENTA vs Nigel - 7th Anniversary Show: another ***** classic. Nigel continuously going for the lariat and KENTA not falling for it forcing Nigel to do other things is great.
Nigel vs Danielson - Unified: *****. wow. great technical match with some good brawling and sick violence. can't wait to watch the rest of their matches (most of which i've seen but not all ).


----------



## Fighter Daron

bigbuxxx said:


> KENTA vs Nigel - 7th Anniversary Show: another ***** classic. Nigel continuously going for the lariat and KENTA not falling for it forcing Nigel to do other things is great.


Nigel fighting with no arms is what makes that a great match.


----------



## Chismo

Shit, someone should make a *Nigel/Dragon* compilation, 10 great matches + many great promos. Simply the greatest feud in ROH history.


----------



## antoniomare007

I'm pretty sure someone did a comp with their feud.


----------



## seabs

*Yeah Platt made one.*


----------



## bigbuxxx

can you link it seabs? can't find it. found yours but want tag matches as well


----------



## Chismo

antoniomare007 said:


> I'm pretty sure someone did a comp with their feud.





Seabs said:


> *Yeah Platt made one.*


:hmm:


----------



## seabs

*Platt sells the comp on DVD. PM him if you want them on disc together. I have all their matches, singles and tags together in my Megapost.*


----------



## Bubz

topper1 said:


> Just watched Steamboat vs Savage to make sure I wasn't crazy in the past and I still have it at about **** 1/4 I just can't go higher on it then that. I just don't see what is so amazing about it.


Wich match are you talking about? Because the only Flair/Steamboat match I have at ***** is their second in the 89 trilogy at Clash Of Champions. The others aren't on the same level for me.


----------



## Yeah1993

He said Steamboat v Savage.


----------



## Platt

[cheap plug]Danielson vs McGuinness
Disc 1
04/29/06 Weekend Of Champions Night 2 Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness
07/29/06 Generation Now Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness
08/12/06 Unified Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness

Disc 2
08/25/06 Epic Encounter II Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness
11/04/06 The Bitter End Bryan Danielson & Jimmy Rave vs Samoa Joe & Nigel McGuinness
12/09/06 The Chicago Spectacular Night 2 Bryan Danielson, Jimmy Jacobs, Jimmy Rave & Shingo vs Nigel McGuinness, Delirious, BJ Whitmer & Colt Cabana

Disc 3
12/22/06 International Challenge Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness vs Homicide vs Jimmy Rave
05/12/07 Respect Is Earned Takeshi Bryan Danielson & Morishima vs Nigel McGuinness & KENTA
06/09/07 Domination (Aired on Driven) Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness
06/22/07 United We Stand Bryan Danielson & Nigel McGuinness vs Takeshi Morishima & Naomichi Marufuji

Disc 4
07/27/07 Race To The Top Tournament Night 1 Bryan Danielson & Nigel McGuinness vs Jay & Mark Briscoe
07/28/07 Race To The Top Tournament Night 2 Bryan Danielson, Austin Aries, Mark Briscoe & Matt Sydal vs Nigel McGuiness, Roderick Strong, Delirious & Jay Briscoe
10/06/07 Undeniable Nigel wins the ROH World Title
10/19/07 Survival of the Fittest 2007 Nigel McGuinness vs Bryan Danielson
Bonus: 03/05/05 Trios Tournament 2005 Nigel McGuinness, James Gibson & Spanky vs Bryan Danielson, Samoa Joe & Vordell Walker

Disc 5
02/23/08 6th Anniversary Show Nigel McGuinness vs Bryan Danielson
03/15/08 Double Feature Night 2 Nigel McGuinness & Go Shiozaki vs Bryan Danielson & Austin Aries
06/07/08 Respect is Earned II Bryan Danielson challenges Nigel McGuinness
06/22/08 WXW Dead End VIII McGuinness vs Danielson

Disc 6
08/02/08 Death Before Dishonor VI Nigel McGuinness vs Bryan Danielson vs Claudio Castagnoli vs Tyler Black
08/16/08 Night Of The Butcher II McGuinness & Castagnoli vs Aries & Danielson
09/13/08 Battle of the Best Nigel McGuinness vs Bryan Danielson
09/19/08 Driven (2008) Danielson Challenges Nigel

Disc 7
11/22/08 ROH Rising Above 2008 Nigel McGuinness vs Bryan Danielson
12/05/08 ROH Wrestling At The Gateway Danielson & Jerry Lynn vs McGuinness & Claudio Castagnoli
09/26/09 ROH Glory By Honor VIII: The Final Countdown Nigel McGuinness vs Bryan Danielson
[/cheap plug]


----------



## Chismo

Random rewatch:

*Ric Flair vs. Sting (NWA, Clash Of The Champions I)*

Simply, this is one of the best matches of all time. Period. Top 3 in NWA history, easily. This was 45 minutes of back-and-forth, balls to the walls action, great strategies, brilliant heel stuff, brilliant babyface reactions, this was about THE belt, this was the night when one big star of pro wrestling was born. Flair made Sting, it's simple as that. Flair made him look like a million bucks. Also, JJ Dillon was suspended in the cage above the ring, bcuz of the WWW screwjob. But even when alone, Flair still managed to keep the title somehow. He's a true wrestling genius. Also, Stinger is definitely one of the best babyfaces ever, the way that crowd cheered him was incredible, he controlled them easily, his comebacks were fucking awesome. 23 years later, this match is still great, five stars easily. Every time I watch this, it just gets better and better. As much as I love Flair/Steamer series from '89, this match is better than any of those. Flair and Steamer made for a perfect clash of the in-ring equals, but Flair and Sting was the clash of the characters, bigger than life. Stinger's babyface goodies make this one more entertaining that Flair/Steamer '89.
*Rating: ******


----------



## antoniomare007

*The Enfocers (Arn Anderson & Larry Zbyszko) vs Dustin Rhodes & ??? - Clash Of The Champions XVII*

Fuck star ratings. lol, but seriously...it's not that there's nothing wrong about this match, it's not that there's some huge upside that makes you overlook any flaw, it's just that every fucking thing they did was perfectly done. 15 minutes of 2 guys doing an amazing job at being heels (specially AA. like, HOLY SHIT WHY IS ARN ANDERSON SO FUCKING GOOD? it's not even fair), 1 young wrestler that wants to help but ends up screwing things up time and time again, and 1 guy who does such a great job as the FIP that I almost ended up screaming at my screen wanting the hot tag. The crowd was awesome and lost their collective shit everytime the heels got hit or if there was even a possibility for a tag. The icing on the cake was Jim Ross...damn I miss that guy. 

I can't even remember all the matches I put on my first post in this thread, but if I have to write it again I'm damn sure adding this match.


link: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=WWJZLIOP


----------



## Yeah1993

Yeah that fucking rules and is a million times better than any WWE tag match ever. I also prefer it to WarGames as the best US match of 91.


----------



## Horselover Fat

yeah1993 what do you think of antoniomare007's charlie sheen avatar


----------



## Yeah1993

****1/4


----------



## Horselover Fat

i thought you didnt give star ratings anymore


----------



## Yeah1993

Photos of people in cowboy hats can be exceptions.


----------



## Horselover Fat

make a winning joke yeah


----------



## antoniomare007

after all this time I still don't get these Yeah/WCW exchanges 


anyways, go watch the Clash XVII match people!


----------



## WOOLCOCK

WCW just lives to confuse us, why are you so vague man?

That tag is incredible btw and it made #5 on my Top 100 WCW ballot, everyone in it was brilliant and it proves why southern tag formula makes for the best tag team matches. Think it was one of the first matches I saw of Zbyszko as well and I'd recommend anyone who watches this match watch more of him, because despite being the lesser of the 4 workers in the match (not a knock at all given the quality involved in that match) he's still a great great heel worker and well worth looking up.


----------



## antoniomare007

holy shit you are alive!


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Been living under a rock between uni work and trying to keep up a respectable social life and been quite burnt out talking about wrestling.

Watched a fair amount of matches but not had much motivation to write much, when exams finish on the 16th I might do a mini right up of a few WWE and Indy matches, some serious good shit going down on the lesser indies (i.e lucky to get 100 people). The likes of Luke Gallows, Jake Davis, Drew Haskins, Damian Wayne, Dean Allmark, James Mason and Kyle Matthews have been putting on some great matches, particularly Gallows v Davis


----------



## Bubz

About time you showed back up here lol.

Gonna' get around to watching that WCW tag later tonight. I watched some old ROH stuff last night and I think the 4 way world title match at Redemption where Gibson won the belt was absolutely fantastic. I don't remember it being that good, and I checked the DVD review thread and I didn't see anyone who thought it was as good as I did. One of my favorite ROH matches ever and quite underrated.

I also watched Punk/Aries from DBD III again and while it is great and the atmosphere is amazing, Punk completely no selling the kick, 450 combo really took me out of the match. I did, however, love Punk kicking out of the pepsi plunge at a 1 count and hulking up only to get knocked out by an elbow.

Going to rewatch the Danielson/Strong series tomorrow to see if the Vendetta match is as good as I remember it.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Yeah1993 said:


> Yeah that fucking rules and is a million times better than any WWE tag match ever. I also prefer it to WarGames as the best US match of 91.


Sheeit, that tag is awesome, but it's not better than Rockers/Orients. Well I wouldn't really argue with anyone that thought it was better, but it's not THAT much better. There's a Rockers/Brainbusters tag (don't remember which one specifically since they had about 4 million) that's about as good too, and I still think the Clique tag is tremendous.



antoniomare007 said:


> after all this time I still don't get these Yeah/WCW exchanges


They keep me coming back to this thread. They're the Kevin Nash of this section.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

The Clash tag might be one of the best American tags of all time, maybe just behind the Steamboat/Youngblood v Slaughter/Kernodle Final Conflict Steel Cage tag. Its just a perfectly worked style and a master display of crowd control and 4 brilliant workers putting on a sensational match, doesn't hurt that arguably the 2nd greatest tag team FIP is in the match against one of wrestling's best tag team heels either.

Gibson's whole run in ROH (as well as some hidden WWE stuff, step up v Mysterio Velocity Match which is fucking awesome) is incredible, everything from his arrival up until the Danielson title switch is worth watching, and the Punk saga and Strong match are incredible. I recall enjoying Punk/Aries, but yeah there was some indy pitfalls that definitely stopped the match being in the elite category for me, but with the atmosphere, pre and post match angle I can't fault anyone who looks past that and appreciates the match in a wider context.

Danielson/Strong Vendetta is my favourite ROH match ever, though I consider The 6th Anniversary show match v McGuinness to be ROH's best match ever. Danielson though in this match feels like 80s Ric Flair with how he combines the cowardly/sneaky character that riles the crowd up to the point where we have a clear face/heel dynamic with the crowd demanding Strong be crowned champion and then manages to add so many brilliant exchanges that reinforce his ability as the best in the world and keep up an incredible match. The finishing stretch and post match reaction might also be my favourite ROH finishing stretch, you can literally feel yourself hating Dragon with every sick elbow to Strong and realising just how hard its going to be to see him lose to someone.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Segunda Caida said:


> *The Clash tag might be one of the best American tags of all time*, maybe just behind the Steamboat/Youngblood v Slaughter/Kernodle Final Conflict Steel Cage tag. Its just a perfectly worked style and a master display of crowd control and 4 brilliant workers putting on a sensational match, doesn't hurt that arguably the 2nd greatest tag team FIP is in the match against one of wrestling's best tag team heels either.


I agree with the bolded part. 

The underlined part just seems like a massive stretch to me, though. 

I mean, I can see the case that it's better than any WWF/E tag ever, even if I think there are a few that are as good or better (although there wouldn't be many). It's definitely one of the best WCW tags of the 90s (arguably the best, although I personally wouldn't argue that). But #2 *all-time*? If I had any sort of motivation to come up with a personal top 20 it'd most likely be in or about there, but top 5 seems like a huge stretch never mind second just behind the Final Conflict tag.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I could be forgetting a few matches/not watched some others that may appeal to me, but yeah on last watch I just adored everything about it from the characters, to the crowd, the setting, Jim Ross on commentary, little touches etc etc. Something about it just stuck with me and made me appreciate it so much more, same with Hogan/Flair Halloween Havoc Steel Cage being my #11, even though there are a ton of matches on my ballot I would probably watch ahead of it, something about it just made me love it so much more that I decided it was worthy of placing incredibly high on my ballot.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I had Benoit/Regal from No Mercy at #14 when we did WWF so FUCK IT.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

6 spots too low IMO


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

1. Steve Austin v Kurt Angle (WWF 8/19/01)
2. Bret Hart v Steve Austin (WWF – I Quit Match 3/23/97)
3. Shawn Michaels v Mankind (WWF 9/22/96)
4. Randy Savage v Ricky Steamboat (WWF 3/29/87)
5. Shawn Michaels v Undertaker (WWF 10/5/97)
6. Bret Hart v Steve Austin (WWF 11/17/96)
7. Bret Hart v Mr. Perfect (WWF 6/13/93)
8. Bob Backlund v Sgt. Slaughter (WWF – Cage Match 3/21/81)
9. Bob Backlund v Ken Patera (WWF – Texas Death Match 5/19/80)
10. Finlay v Chris Benoit (WWE 5/21/06)
11. Steve Austin v The Rock (WWF 4/1/01)
12. Bob Backlund v Greg Valentine (WWF 2/19/79)
13. Shawn Michaels v Diesel (WWF – No Holds Barred 4/28/96)
14. Chris Benoit v William Regal (WWE 10/8/06)

IDK man, that's a murderer's row ahead of it (wasn't a Benoit joke...although maybe it should be). Probably should've been ahead of the Shawn/Diesel match, though.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I was only jesting anyway, though I'd rank it ahead of Rock/Austin (I like it but really more for Austin's character than anything else), Diesel/HBK and just ahead of Hart/Perfect. 

But aye, hell of a tough competition there.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Austin's character is really what makes that match, anyway. Shit, the whole story of the match was basically his character "devolving". Plus he was cursing like a trooper really loudly the whole time.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Yeah, I mean as you say everything post NWO 2001 is essentially building to the turn, and Rock is really just forced to play a defiant champion and default heel role while Austin's character breaks down with each kickout and JR screaming about just how far will he have to go to beat Rock. The cold eyed facial expressions of shock are extraordinary and the one with blood streaming from his head after Rock kicks out of a stunner is one of my favourites ever.

What I was really trying to say is on last watch some of the brawling/structure seemed a bit off to the point where I thought Austin's character went from just being the icing on a great match, to largely being responsible for the match turning out as well as it did, like if you had someone who isn't as good as Austin playing his character/role then I don't think the brawling, sequences etc would carry the match to 'really great' level.

I still think its a very good match and true to the attitude era style with some more subtle character/story work thrown in, but I do feel its diminished in stature the more I watch it.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Well Austin was the best wrestler on the planet at that point, so yeah. But I get what you're saying. 

I'd probably drop Bret/Perfect a few spots now. Watching it again on the '93 yearbook, I'm not even sure it's a top 30 match for that year worldwide. If I watched it in amongst all of that WWF stuff again I might still put it as high, but I'm not sure. Still think it smokes Bret/Owen from Wrestlemania, though.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Not got a great memory of Owen/Bret tbh, bar I know for the most part I enjoyed it and dug Owen in particular utilising some good cocky mannerisms. Pretty sure I didn't think it came close to some of the praise I'd seen/heard it get, and thought maybe some of the story/interactions could have been played out better than they were. I mean I'd rank the War Games match featuring Dustin v Bunkhouse Buck (sure I've got the right year) as far better than Owen/Bret, largely down to that lunatic Terry Funk throwing his shoe at his opponent 20 seconds into the match.


----------



## antoniomare007

Segunda Caida said:


> What I was really trying to say is on last watch some of the brawling/structure seemed a bit off to the point where I thought Austin's character went from just being the icing on a great match, to largely being responsible for the match turning out as well as it did, *like if you had someone who isn't as good as Austin playing his character/role then I don't think the brawling, sequences etc would carry the match to 'really great' level.*


But the fact is that it was Austin, so the brawling and everything else was great. Why analyze the match on something that "might have happened" with another wrestler instead?


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I read that as more of an observation rather than a criticism.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

antoniomare007 said:


> But the fact is that it was Austin, so the brawling and everything else was great. Why analyze the match on something that "might have happened" with another wrestler instead?


Tbh I didn't think large chunks of the brawling was great, I think it added to the match and was probably a better way to go than a straight up wrestling match, but yeah I was just remarking that long ago Austin's performance was the icing on top of a great match, the more I've watched it the more my appreciation for Austin's peformance grows but the rest of the match doesn't hold up as well as I remember. Thus I was explaining that but for Austin's performance, I don't think the remaining body of the match could hold it up as being the great match people say it is, whereas a couple of years ago I wouldn't have viewed Austin not being as amazing as he was as affecting the match as much as I do today.

So yeah, could be misguided but I couldn't think of a better reason explanation as to why Austin's character is integral to me still thinking of the match being as good as it is (along with the atmosphere and JR's commentary).


----------



## antoniomare007

So the main reasons you liked the match have changed and at the same time you don't like it as much as before?


----------



## WOOLCOCK

C'mon, this ain't the WWE/TNA section, we can offer a wider interpretation of a match than simply 'not as good as before'.


----------



## antoniomare007

? I wasn't attacking your post, I'm just trying to understand it. There's nothing wrong with what you posted.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Oh that wasn't meant to be read in a blunt tone, I was joking you should know by now I'll attempt the most lengthy explanation even where a simple one line sentence could suffice


----------



## Bubz

Austins performance in the WM 17 match was ridiculously amazing. I don't think I've seen many better character performances than that. Austin/Angle is another one where his performance really raised the match to epic levels. Austin in 2001 was undoubtedly the best wrestler in the world for me.


----------



## Yeah1993

METTA WORLD PEACE said:


> Sheeit, that tag is awesome, but it's not better than Rockers/Orients. Well I wouldn't really argue with anyone that thought it was better, but it's not THAT much better. There's a Rockers/Brainbusters tag (don't remember which one specifically since they had about 4 million) that's about as good too, and I still think the Clique tag is tremendous.


I'll admit to being shitty and not having watched that Clique tag, but I'd say the Clash tag is fairly comfortably ahead of Rockers/Orients or Rockers/Busters (I'd probably go Rockers/Busters 23/1/89 > Rockers/Orients btw. Might say the Boston Garden Rockers/Busters is better as well). I don't mean "comfortably" as in "smokes that match," but more "comfortably" as in "I wouldn't think twice about which one I preferred." I could see myself changing my mind so take it fwiw.

Not sure how many US tags top the Clash match, but there's probably at least ten, I'll have fun with this even though it isn't the right thread to do so :

-Final Conflict tag is better.
-Does WarGames 92 count? if it does; yeah.
-Mayyyyyyyyybe WarGames 87 (IF IT COUNTS). Need to watch it again.
-I like the 3-on-3 from that Saturday Night episode in 5/92 better. Arn/Eaton/Larry v Steamboat/Dustin/Koloff (everyone watch that btw)
-I thought MVC v Steiners from Clash 19 was a liiiiiiiiittle bit better. 
-Midnights v Fantastics 26/4/88 is amazing and I'd say it definitely tops it based on my last watch of it (2009 :side. That might be my #2 US tag. 
-On the fence about MX v RnR from WrestleWar, Pillman/Windham v Steamboat/Douglas from Starrcade and MX v Southern Boys from GAB. Could swap those three + Clash 17 tag at any given time. Though I'm less likely to put MX v RnR anywhere but fourth of those four.
-MX/Ernie Ladd v RnR/Jim Duggan (the first one from 85- though the second one is great as well) is fantastic and I might say it's better. 
-RnR v THOSE RUSSIANS from 85 (the really long one) is a contender as well.
-On of the Arn/Tully v Windham/Luger matches was probably as good (don't ask me which one right now).

So where would I rank the Clash tag in greatest US tags? I don't fucking know. But this was fun.


----------



## Legend

^That's an incredible list right there. You've listed some of my favourite matches ever. There are so many classic tags.


----------



## TelkEvolon

I always find a great tag match is far better than a great singles match.


----------



## Bubz

TelkEvolon said:


> I always find a great tag match is far better than a great singles match.


I suppose tags are a little easier to work a great story in to.


----------



## jaw2929

I don't give "star ratings" to any matches I've seen. Some of my favourites off the top of my head:

*-Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle (Royal Rumble 2003)

-CM Punk vs. Samoa Joe (ROH World Title Classic)

-Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat (Any of their matches, really)

-Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin (Wrestlemania 13)

-Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania 25 & 26)

-CM Punk vs. John Cena (Money in the Bank 2011)

-Eddie Guerrero vs. Dean Malenko (Any match in ECW they had)

-Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart (Wrestlemania 10)

-Chris Benoit vs. HHH vs. Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania 20)

-Eddie Guerrero vs. Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania 20)

-Chris Benoit vs. Steve Austin (Smackdown Summer of 2001)

-Shane Douglas vs. Terry Funk vs. Sabu (ECW Night the Line Was Crossed 1994)

-Cactus Jack vs. HHH (Royal Rumble 2000)

-Mankind vs. Undertaker (Hell in a Cell 1998)

-Hulk Hogan vs. Andre (Wrestlemania 3)

-Hulk Hogan vs. The Rock (Wrestlemania 18)

-Rob Van Dam vs. John Cena (ECW ONS 2006)

-Tommy Dreamer/Terry Funk vs. Mick Foley/Edge (ECW ONS 2006)

-Tommy Dreamer/Sandman vs. Dudley Boyz (ECW ONS 2005)*

I think that's it for now.


----------



## Legend

TelkEvolon said:


> I always find a great tag match is far better than a great singles match.


Bingo.


----------



## TelkEvolon

Bubz said:


> I suppose tags are a little easier to work a great story in to.


My dynamics to work with, allows people to have more time to sell and what not.


----------



## Violent By Design

Hart/Henning and Hart/Hart aren't that great of matches. They're praised a lot because compared to other WWE matches, the technical wrestling and athleticism seemed unique, especially for its time. Those matches don't hold up as anything special.

I also like the Summerslam cage match more than the WM match between the Hart brothers. Seems like the Cage match isn't as popular anymore, though in the 90s everyone used to like that match more. The match is a bit too long though, and the falls become mundane.



Every Austin match I've ever watched and thought was great, was great because of Austin's acting. That's what makes Austin an elite wrestler, he injects all these little things and it makes him a very vibrant performer.


----------



## seabs

*I'm with 93 on the Clash tag. Agree on the majority of the tags he listed being better bar the MVC/Steiners and the Mid South 6 man. 

3) The Dirty White Boys vs. Terry Daniels & Bill Dundee (5/11/85)
5) The Fantastics vs. "Dr. Death" Steve Williams & Jake Roberts (4/14/85)
=) The Fantastics vs. The Midnight Express (OKC 8/9/84)
=) The Midnight Express vs. Bill Dundee & Porkchop Cash (4/6/84)

I'd say them Mid South tags are all better than it too. The Clash tag is phenomenal btw, not trying to downplay it one bit. Best US tag for me would probably be MX vs Fantastics from the 1st Clash. That or MX vs Southern Boys from GAB 1990. I think at least. Final Conflict tag would have to be right up there too thinking about it. War Games 92 would be a contender too for sure if you're counting War Games a tag match. 

Edit: Thinking about there's a TON of ROH tags that I'd consider for best US tag of all time. Prophecy/SCS and Briscoes/Steenerico Street Fights definitely would be. Briscoes vs Aries/Strong from Unified would be right up there too. Ladder War I too. Different style though so I guess they're not a fair comparison but yeah ROH tags should at least be mentioned on the topic. There's some PWG tags too.*


----------



## Chismo

Random tag rewatch:

*Keiji Mutoh & Masahiro Chono vs. Hiroshi Hase & Kensuke Sasaki (NJPW, 11/1/1990)*

I believe this match is overlooked when we talk about superb (tag) matches. This was just fantastic. 4 young, great, different wrestlers, everyone brought something different to the table - Mutoh is very fast and he can fly, Chono is a legit, dirty badass striker, Hase is the master of the mat, and Kenskay is such a great young powerhouse. This match was simply brilliant, the crowd was awesome, and the finishing stretch was super exciting. The best New Japan tag of all time, definitely, and one of the best generally.
*Rating: ******


----------



## antoniomare007

don't like it as much as you do but it's way better than the often praised Sasaki/Hase vs Steiners match.


----------



## Legend

Seabs said:


> *I'm with 93 on the Clash tag. Agree on the majority of the tags he listed being better bar the MVC/Steiners and the Mid South 6 man.
> 
> 3) The Dirty White Boys vs. Terry Daniels & Bill Dundee (5/11/85)
> 5) The Fantastics vs. "Dr. Death" Steve Williams & Jake Roberts (4/14/85)
> =) The Fantastics vs. The Midnight Express (OKC 8/9/84)
> =) The Midnight Express vs. Bill Dundee & Porkchop Cash (4/6/84)
> 
> I'd say them Mid South tags are all better than it too. The Clash tag is phenomenal btw, not trying to downplay it one bit. Best US tag for me would probably be MX vs Fantastics from the 1st Clash. That or MX vs Southern Boys from GAB 1990. I think at least. Final Conflict tag would have to be right up there too thinking about it. War Games 92 would be a contender too for sure if you're counting War Games a tag match.
> 
> Edit: Thinking about there's a TON of ROH tags that I'd consider for best US tag of all time. Prophecy/SCS and Briscoes/Steenerico Street Fights definitely would be. Briscoes vs Aries/Strong from Unified would be right up there too. Ladder War I too. Different style though so I guess they're not a fair comparison but yeah ROH tags should at least be mentioned on the topic. There's some PWG tags too.*


Have you uploaded those Mid South ones, Seabs?


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Yeah1993 said:


> I'll admit to being shitty and not having watched that Clique tag, but I'd say the Clash tag is fairly comfortably ahead of Rockers/Orients or Rockers/Busters (I'd probably go Rockers/Busters 23/1/89 > Rockers/Orients btw. Might say the Boston Garden Rockers/Busters is better as well). I don't mean "comfortably" as in "smokes that match," but more "comfortably" as in "I wouldn't think twice about which one I preferred." I could see myself changing my mind so take it fwiw.
> 
> Not sure how many US tags top the Clash match, but there's probably at least ten, I'll have fun with this even though it isn't the right thread to do so :
> 
> -Final Conflict tag is better.
> -Does WarGames 92 count? if it does; yeah.
> -Mayyyyyyyyybe WarGames 87 (IF IT COUNTS). Need to watch it again.
> -I like the 3-on-3 from that Saturday Night episode in 5/92 better. Arn/Eaton/Larry v Steamboat/Dustin/Koloff (everyone watch that btw)
> -I thought MVC v Steiners from Clash 19 was a liiiiiiiiittle bit better.
> -Midnights v Fantastics 26/4/88 is amazing and I'd say it definitely tops it based on my last watch of it (2009 :side. That might be my #2 US tag.
> -On the fence about MX v RnR from WrestleWar, Pillman/Windham v Steamboat/Douglas from Starrcade and MX v Southern Boys from GAB. Could swap those three + Clash 17 tag at any given time. Though I'm less likely to put MX v RnR anywhere but fourth of those four.
> -MX/Ernie Ladd v RnR/Jim Duggan (the first one from 85- though the second one is great as well) is fantastic and I might say it's better.
> -RnR v THOSE RUSSIANS from 85 (the really long one) is a contender as well.
> -On of the Arn/Tully v Windham/Luger matches was probably as good (don't ask me which one right now).
> 
> So where would I rank the Clash tag in greatest US tags? I don't fucking know. But this was fun.


I'll have a go at this (sort of) as well, although I'll stick to just 2 v 2 tags. It would change tomorrow, but if I had to come up with a top 20 right now...

Eaton/Koko v Mantell/Cobra, Memphis (7/19/82)
Final Conflict, Crockett (3/12/83)
Gordy/Garvin v Kevin/David Von Erich, WCCW (8/15/83)
Reed/Neidhart v Magnum/II, Mid-South (12/25/83)
Fantastics v Midnight Express, WCCW (12/25/84)
RnRs v Chavo/Hector Guerrero, Mid-South (2/13/85)
Dundee/Daniels v Dirty White Boys, Mid-South (5/11/85)
RnRs v Russians, Crockett (9/30/85)
Lawler/Mantell v Dundee/Landel, Memphis (3/10/86)
Gordy/Roberts v Kevin/Kerry Von Erich, WCCW (2/12/88)
Midnight Express v Fantastics, NWA (3/27/88)
Arn/Tully v Luger/Windham, NWA (3/27/88)
Arn/Tully v Luger/Windham, NWA (4/23/88)
Fantastics v Midnight Express, NWA (4/26/88)
Rockers v Brainbusters, WWF (1/23/89)
Rockers v Brainbusters, WWF (3/18/89)
Flair/Windham v Luger/Gilbert, NWA (3/25/89)
Midnight Express v RnRs, WCW (2/25/90)
Midnight Express v Southern Boys, WCW (7/7/90)
Rockers v Orient Express, WWF (1/19/91)
Arn/Zbyszko v Dustin/Steamboat, WCW (11/19/91)
Dustin/Windham v Austin/Zbyszko, WCW (2/29/92)
Steiners v Gordy/Williams, WCW (6/16/92)
Pillman/Windham v Steamboat/Douglas, WCW (12/28/92)
Blonds v Bagwell/Scorpio, WCW (5/8/93)
Cactus/Payne v Nasty Boys, WCW (4/17/94)
Clique tag, WWF (10/30/94)
Michaels/Austin v Owen/Bulldog, WWF (5/26/97)
Power Trip v Benoit/Jericho, WWF (5/21/01)
Briscoes v Aries/Strong, ROH Unified

Alright so I went above 20. You get 30 instead. Not going to try and rank them because...well fuck that. There's tonnes I'd like to add, and there's probably some I'm forgetting as well. If I'm including trios and other multi-man tags then the Duggan/RnRs v Ladd/MX matches, the 2/7/00 RAW match, the Canadian Stampede tag, the 8-man from the 2/22/92 episode of Saturday Night, the 5/23/92 6-man from Saturday Night and the 7/83 Von Erichs/Freebirds match all go in, probably top 20 rather than top 30. There was another one that I wanted to mention and I've forgotten it now. But I'm pretty sure whatever I was thinking of was good. 

I literally can't think of any other ROH tag that I'd put in or near a top 30. There are probably some I'm just blanking on, but most of the stuff people pimp highly I'm either apathetic towards or just flat out don't like (Danielson/Black v Wolves...pretty much anything else from the Wolves). Cage of Death isn't really a tag and falls into its own category like the Wargames matches, but Cage of Death was awesome and so were a few Wargames matches. I liked that Danielson/Aries v Jacobs/Black match from a few years ago, but not "top 30" like. I honestly can't see most of the stuff post-2007 being my thing, anyway. Shit, I'm surprised I still like the Briscoes/Aries-Strong match, because it's a style I actively hate these days.

IDK where I'd put the Clash tag if I tried to rank them. Top 20 seems likely, but it would be bottom quarter...maybe 20-23 range depending on how I feel. 



TelkEvolon said:


> I always find a great tag match is far better than a great singles match.


Southern style tags are my favourite matches by far. I'd rather watch the 10 minute Rockers v Powers of Pain match from MSG than any Misawa/Kawada singles match at this point, even though it's certainly not a better match.


----------



## seabs

Legend said:


> Have you uploaded those Mid South ones, Seabs?


*Of course.*


----------



## Legend

Seabs said:


> *Of course.*


You, sir, should have my username


----------



## Silent Rage

Invaluable thread, it should be stickied. Def bookmarking.


----------



## Violent By Design

hey, for you guys who were making a top 100 WCW matches, what did you guys think of Bret Hart vs Ric Flair at Souled Out?


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I practically remember nothing about it now. I think the general vibe I got from it when I last watched it was that I preferred it to their WWF matches, but I re-watched their ironman match from January '93 about 6 months ago and thought that was really good, so I don't think I'd still have the Souled Out match ahead of that if I re-watched it. I don't like the '92 match where Bret wins the title, though. 

Honestly, I wasn't planning on re-watching any of the Bret/Flair WCW matches (if they even had more than one...I don't remember at this point) because there's so much other shit that I'm trying to wade through, but if I've got time at the end I'll give Souled out a spin.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

I'm sure you'll have time to check out loads of WCW matches, not just Bret/Flair ones, because at this point I'm most definitely gonna need an extension since I STILL only have 39 matches on my list :lmao.


----------



## Violent By Design

I had no idea Bret and Ric had an iron man match.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

It's a handheld from Boston. Date is 1/9/93. I talked about it elsewhere whenever I watched it and said this:

Watched the Bret/Flair ironman match from January '93 this morning. I'm still half in the can and I kind of phased in and out of consciousness at a few points, but I'd def call it "good" at worst. Watching it in the "coming down from a ridiculous bender" state I was in at the time probably doesn't do it justice, though, so I'm gonna re-watch it at some point (irrespective of the booze, watching a 60 minute fancam isn't really something that's likely to drag me out of my wrestling funk, either). Bret looked really fucking awesome, btw. I've never liked any of their other matches together, but this is the match I'd point to as an example of them working well together. Flair actually works WAY more of this on top than I thought he would. Flair's a guy that's best getting his ass stomped and bitching and doing everything you know he loves to do, but he's really good cheating and being a nasty dick on offence here. Talking point I've seen made about this in the past (I had never seen the match before...I think) is that Flair isn't nearly as good at selling his own move (figure four) in this as Bret, and I'd agree with that. Bret's REALLY fucking good at selling the leg here. Bret's selling in general was stellar, actually. I was also listening to music while this was on so I never heard the crowd reactions, but when Flair busts out the knucks down the stretch you see one kid jumping around like he's ready to murder someone and people are tossing garbage into the ring, so I imagine the heat would've been pretty huge.


----------



## Yeah1993

I liked the iron man quite a bit. Still never seen Souled Out but it's on disc to watch. I will literally eat every pair of shoos I own (like two or three) if i think it's even remotely clsoe to five stars though.


----------



## Horselover Fat

3991heaY taht uoy dloh ll'I


----------



## KingTonga

- Savage v Steamboat, WM3;
- Bret v Davey, SS92
- Bret v Austin, WM13.

I'll add to this as and when I give it some more thought.


----------



## Yeah1993

WCW said:


> 3991heaY taht uoy dloh ll'I


I read backwards very well.


----------



## Horselover Fat

Yeah1993 said:


> I read backwards very well.


----------



## Bubz

*Austin vs Benoit - WWF RAW 28th May 2001* Beautiful. Austin was a fucking master. That Benoit guy wasn't to bad either. Maybe not 5*, but damn close if it isn't, and it's under 15 minutes too.


----------



## Violent By Design

yo, does anyone have a link to Harley Race vs Kerry Von Erich? Probably the best Harley Race match I've seen, but I haven't been able to track it down in a while.


----------



## antoniomare007

Is it better than Harley vs Lawler from 79'? That's the best Race match I've seen so far.


----------



## Violent By Design

I liked it more. It has a lot more energy.


----------



## antoniomare007

Interesting, gonna see if I find something.


----------



## Violent By Design

I should really stop being lazy and get a premium membership. I know it is on this site some where.


----------



## antoniomare007

what's the date?


----------



## Yeah1993

Bubz said:


> *Austin vs Benoit - WWF RAW 28th May 2001* Beautiful. Austin was a fucking master. That Benoit guy wasn't to bad either. Maybe not 5*, but damn close if it isn't, and it's under 15 minutes too.


This is really good but the match a few days later* is a ton better. One of the top 30 WWE matches ever, probably. Top 5 for both guys as well. I think Austin went on record saying it was his best or favourite match of his career behind WrestleMania 13.

*may have been taped the next night actually. Depends how SmackDown worked back then.


----------



## Violent By Design

Yeah1993 said:


> This is really good but the match a few days later* is a ton better. One of the top 30 WWE matches ever, probably. Top 5 for both guys as well. I think Austin went on record saying it was his best or favourite match of his career behind WrestleMania 13.
> 
> *may have been taped the next night actually. Depends how SmackDown worked back then.


 Smackdown was on Tuesday night back then, same as it is today I believe. 



antoniomare007 said:


> what's the date?


6/17/83

It's versus Kevin Von Erich not Kerry.


----------



## antoniomare007

The Austin vs Benoit SD! match might be WWE's GOAT TV match (in singles).



Violent By Design said:


> 6/17/83
> 
> It's versus Kevin Von Erich not Kerry.


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2fbh4_wccw-1983-06-17-kevin-von-erich-vs_fun

or

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZRC28JSK


----------



## Yeah1993

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2fbh4_wccw-1983-06-17-kevin-von-erich-vs_fun

edit- -_-


----------



## Bubz

Angle/Austin from SD was amazing. Just watched it for the first time since it happened I think. The RAW match deserves a lot of praise as well, both are brilliant.


----------



## Violent By Design

thanks for the links brahs.


I was thinking the match wasn't going to be that great while I was watching it, but I love the selling that Kevin does in this one. Kevin looks so epic when he is holding the claw while his other arm is completely dead. He was always the coolest Von Erich to me.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

That Harley/Kevin match is probably my favourite match of either guy's career. I don't really like Harley, but he was awesome in that, and it's by FAR the best sell-job of Kevin's career. He had a tendency to take too much of the match a lot of the time, but he was amazing against Race. 

Think I had it as my #3 from the Texas set.


----------



## ChainGangRed

There are seven that come off the top of my head, but there is definitely more that I will add when I think of them.

(AJW)
Manami Toyota vs. Aja Kong (11/20/1994)

Manami Toyota vs. Kyoko Inoue (05/07/1995)

(NJPW)
Jushin Liger vs. The Great Muta (10/20/1996)

Keiji Mutoh vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi (01/04/2009)

(ROH)
CM Punk vs Samoa Joe (10/16/2004)

(TNA)
Samoa Joe vs. Christopher Daniels vs. A.J. Styles (09/11/2005)

(WWE)
Kurt Angle vs. Steve Austin (09/23/2001)


----------



## topper1

Anyone else think Tanahashi vs Mutoh was really good?


----------



## McQueen

Was that the match from Wrestlekingdom?


----------



## ChainGangRed

McQueen said:


> Was that the match from Wrestlekingdom?


Yes.


----------



## tboneangle

whats everyones opinion on angle vs eddie from wm20?


----------



## Yeah1993

Pretty good with a really cool finish.


----------



## Bubz

tboneangle said:


> whats everyones opinion on angle vs eddie from wm20?


Great match from what I remember.

I posted this in the puro thread too...

*Misawa/Kobashi/Kawada vs Jumbo/Fuchi/Taue - AJPW 20/4/91*
What. A. Match! The best multi-man tag match I've seen. I was told how good this was before hand but it surpassed my expectations. It went about 50 minutes and it was brilliant for every second. Kawada/Taue once again is probably the highlight as they beat the shit out of eachother and show real hatred. Jumbo/Taue/Fuchi end up working over Kobashi's leg for a long ass time, and once again he plays an incredible face in peril which I think he was best at. This is pretty much non-stop action though and the workovers (first on Kawada, then on Taue, then on Kobashi) were so well done and so entertaining. I could probably watch these guys wrestle all day. One of my favourite parts was when Kawada keeps getting Jumbo into the arm bar as Kobashi and Misawa fend off Jumbo's team mates. Absolutely epic match, probably in the top 5 AJPW matches ever. Rating some these matches 5 stars seems pretty shitty and doesn't do them justice considering some other matches I've had rated at 5 stars in the past.

The 6 man with all the same guys from 19/10/90 is 5 stars as well but the 91 match just beats it imo.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Eddie/Angle from Wrestlemania is really good, yeah. Not very "Angle-like" IIRC so that no doubt played a part in how much I enjoyed it.

Resident FORUM MODERATOR KingCal hates it because he's a joyless sack of shit.


----------



## tboneangle

i love his royal rumble match with benoit as well as his mania match with eddie. the benoit match is all about fast paces technical/counter wrestling,where the eddie match is about slow paced mat based storytelling. i have them both at *****


----------



## topper1

Someone thinks Angle vs Eddie is a ***** match . 

Strangly enough Eddie vs Brock was Eddie's highlight match for me in 04 great big man vs little man match along with Bret vs Nash from SS 95 it is one of my favorite Big man vs little man matches.


----------



## Yeah1993

I prefer Eddie v JBL as the best Eddie match in 2004 (shit, as the best WWE match in 2004), but Eddie v Lesnar a relatively close #2.

If Eddie had kept his level of work from August to December the way he did from February to July, I'd have him as the unquestioned WOTY for that year. Shit, I could still make a really good case for it.

The Angle match at Mania is good, but it isn't as good as the seventh or eighth best for Eddie in 2004 IMO.


----------



## Bruce L

topper1 said:


> Strangly enough Eddie vs Brock was Eddie's highlight match for me in 04 great big man vs little man match along with Bret vs Nash from SS 95 it is one of my favorite Big man vs little man matches.


Eddie vs. Brock is my favorite Eddie match of his entire WWE tenure. His no-DQ match with Edge from SmackDown in September '02 is the only one that comes close.


----------



## Violent By Design

yeah, eddie vs brock is a beautiful match.


----------



## tboneangle

i love eddie vs lesnar. ****3/4 only because i HATE the goldberg run in


----------



## smitlick

AJPW - 11/6/76

Terry Funk vs Jumbo Tsuruta
*****


----------



## milkman7

From the top of my head, if I were to give out snowflakes:

Bob Backlund vs Nobuhiko Takada - UWF 12/22/88
CM Punk vs Samoa Joe - ROH World Title Classic 6/12/04
John Cena vs Umaga - WWE Royal Rumble 1/28/07


----------



## Horselover Fat

milkman7 said:


> From the top of my head, if I were to give out snowflakes:
> 
> Bob Backlund vs Nobuhiko Takada - UWF 12/22/88
> CM Punk vs Samoa Joe - ROH World Title Classic 6/12/04
> John Cena vs Umaga - WWE Royal Rumble 1/28/07


What is your rationale for these


----------



## Chismo

Bob Backlund?


----------



## McQueen

Yeah Backlund did some UWF tours in the late 80's.


----------



## Chismo

Lol, no... I was just answering to WCW, I said Bob Backlund is rationale for those. Yes, even for those where he's not involved. Because he's that awesome.


----------



## milkman7

They are all awesome matches.

The story telling in the Punk/Joe match is some of the best I've ever seen. Punk with the rope-a-dope was brilliant stuff. It really had the big match feel that a lot of indies can't pull off.

Backlund.

Cena/Umaga is the best Last Man Standing match the E has ever put on. Cena working against monsters is always great. This might be the match of the 00s for all promotions, and very, very likely the match of the 00s for the E.


----------



## Punkhead

5 star? Something except these matches:


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Man, you've really got a thing for these botches, don't you?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

METTA WORLD PEACE said:


> Eddie/Angle from Wrestlemania is really good, yeah. Not very "Angle-like" IIRC so that no doubt played a part in how much I enjoyed it.
> 
> Resident FORUM MODERATOR KingCal hates it because he's a joyless sack of shit.


While I was at a funeral burying my Grandad who died of cancer, you posted this. Classy man. Very fucking classy.

Its a fucking shit match though... .


----------



## Chismo

What are your ratings for Flair/Jumbo 6 matches? I remember having one of them (2/3 falls) at five stars, but for the love of God I can't remember the date. And I remember having the rest of the series from *** to ****1/2.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I've actually watched most of the Flair/Jumbo matches pretty recently. 10/9/81, 6/8/82 and 6/8/83 are on the All Japan set so I've watched all of those within the last 8 months or so. 

Not a huge fan of any of them anymore. I used to think 6/8/83 was tremendous, but I didn't love it this time around. I'll just post what I said about it last year:



> Ric Flair v Jumbo Tsuruta (6/8/83)
> - This is really, really good stuff, but it didn’t strike me as the absolute slam dunk that I remembered and figured it’d hold up as. I expected it to be a top 15 lock going in, and while I can’t see it falling out of the top 40, I’d be surprised if it stays in my top 20 (so I’m still fairly sure I’ll be a low voter on it). Hour long matches generally aren’t my cup of tea anymore – at this stage I’d rather see Funk and Hansen try to hang, draw and quarter each other for 15 minutes – and I don’t particularly love a great deal of Flair’s stuff in Japan, anyway. First fall is a strong slow-burner, and there’s some good stuff in it. Thought Jumbo was far more interesting on the mat here than he was in their first two matches, and everything felt like more of a struggle as a result. Flair is a guy I always like working basic holds, but I tend to get more out of it when he’s working stateside. Jumbo’s all over him for most of the first half hour and Flair is never able to sustain any sort of advantage. Jumbo’s flurry at the end of the fall is really good and capped off by a great looking backdrop. Second fall has Flair come out as if he knows he has to change his approach and lets loose with the strikes, including his awesome punches to the armpit. Final 20 minute spell is what I always remembered as being the stretch that pushed this into the top level, and it still held up as being terrific. Flair getting cut open is really when things kick up a few gears and they don’t slow down from that point on. Great spot where Flair is hanging upside down in the corner while Jumbo lays into his blood-blond head. Felt like a scene from a Jason movie with Flair as your Paris Hilton or Lindsay Lohan or some other walking STD being strung up in an abattoir. Last ten minutes are basically built around Flair continually going back to the figure-four while Jumbo refuses to quit, and it’s pretty remarkable how much drama they get out of it considering the hold is applied for minutes at a time. Flair knows the score and just trash talks and shouts at Higuchi to count Jumbo out, and as much of a gutsy motherfucker Jumbo comes across as for not quitting, Flair equally comes across as a guy that, despite how often it might seem like he’s escaping by the skin of his teeth, will fight tooth and nail to keep his title whenever it’s in jeopardy. This is in my top 6 right now, but I think the fact it won’t stay up in the very top tier is a sign of how my tastes have shifted pretty considerably since the last time I watched it (about 4 years ago now) rather than there being anything “wrong” with it.


That match is still my favourite of all the Flair/Jumbo matches.


----------



## Violent By Design

I would not consider the 2/3 falls match between Ric and Jumbo to be an amazing match either.


----------



## Bubz

I remember watching a few Falir/Jumbo matches and I wasn't too high on them at the time, I don't remember which ones though.


----------



## seabs

*I didn't think a whole lot of the Jumbo/Flair matches on the All Japan set either.*


----------



## RawIsWar1991

Flair vs Steamboat - NWA WrestleWar 1989
Austin vs Hart - WWF WM13
Low Ki vs Danielson - ROH 2002
Steen vs Generico - ROH Final Battle 2010
Richards vs Edwards - ROH BITW 2011
Steen vs Generico - PWG Steen Wolf


----------



## Violent By Design

RawIsWar1991 said:


> Flair vs Steamboat - NWA WrestleWar 1989
> Austin vs Hart - WWF WM13
> Low Ki vs Danielson - ROH 2002
> Steen vs Generico - ROH Final Battle 2010
> Richards vs Edwards - ROH BITW 2011
> Steen vs Generico - PWG Steen Wolf


No hate, but man ROH in 2002 was so bad.


----------



## Yeah1993

Ki v Dragon was really good, though. Even if I prefer two other matches they've had to it.


----------



## milkman7

1.	Giant Baba vs Bruno Sammartino – JWA 3/7/67
2.	Giant Baba vs The Destroyer – JWA 3/5/69
3.	Jerry Lawler vs Dutch Mantell – CWA 3/29/82
4.	Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee – CWA 6/6/83
5.	Jerry Lawler vs Randy Savage – CWA 6/3/85
6.	Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee – CWA 12/30/85 - https://vimeo.com/37123014
7.	The Belfast Bruiser vs Lord Steven Regal – WCW Uncensored 3/24/96
8. El Hijo Del Santo vs ***** Casas - CMLL 9/19/97
9.	Bryan Danielson vs Low Ki – ROH 3/20/02
10.	Mitsuharu Misawa vs Kenta Kobashi – NOAH 3/1/03
11.	Necro Butcher/Chris Hero/Claudio Castagnoli/Eddie Kingston/Nate Webb vs Bryan Danielson/Samoa Joe/Adam Pearce/BJ Whitmer/Ace Steel/Homicide – ROH 7/15/06
12. John Cena vs Umaga - WWE Royal Rumble 1/28/07
13.	Yuki Ishikawa/Alexander Otsuka/Munenori Sawa vs Daisuke Ikeda/Katsumi Usuda/Super Tiger II – BattlARTS 7/26/08


----------



## Yeah1993

Yeah1993 said:


> I haven't given "official" Star ratings in over a year, but it'd look something like this now:
> 
> Mitsuharu Misawa v Toshiaki Kawada (AJPW 3/6/94)
> Mitsuharu Misawa v Jumbo Tsuruta (AJPW 1/9/90)
> Mitsuharu Misawa/Kenta Kobashi v Toshiaki Kawada/Akira Taue (AJPW 3/12/93)
> Mitsuharu Misawa/Kenta Kobashi v Toshiaki Kawada/Akira Taue (AJPW 9/6/95)
> *Mitsuharu Misawa/Kenta Kobashi/Toshiaki Kawada v Jumbo Tsuruta/Akira Taue/Masanobu Fuchi (AJPW 22/5/92)*
> Ric Flair v Ricky Steamboat (NWA 2/4/89)
> *Ric Flair v Ricky Steamboat (NWA 7/5/89)*
> Ric Flair v Ricky Steamboat (NWA 18/3/89) (There's two house show matches this day, this one I'd give 5 from Landover, and another one from Philly)
> *El Hijo del Santo v ***** Casas (CMLL 19/9/97)*
> ***** Casas v El Dandy (CMLL 3/7/92)
> *Cicloncito Ramirez v Damiancito El Guerrero (CMLL 7/1/97)*
> Mitsuhary Misawa v Kenta Kobashi (AJPW 20/1/97)
> Blue Panther v Atlantis (CMLL 9/8/91)
> 
> There's others I'd probably give five if I watched them tomorrow (Santo/Espanto 86, 20/4/91 six man, Jumbo/Tenryu, santo/Casa 87, Flair/Windham 86, etc.) and some from this list I'd probably knock down. That's the beauaty of not actually keeping track ~ :hb


Looking at this list, I'd probably think about knocking the bold ones off. I'd have to watch them again. I'd also definitely add the RWTL 96 final. Top 10 match ever for sure.


----------



## milkman7

I actually watched Santo/Casas 87 earlier today. I wouldn't give it 5 stars, but it would probably be something close. And I am fixing to watch Santo/Casas 97. It's crazy how those two put on a clinic 25 years ago, and they are still two of the best to this day. They actually have the two best matches of the year right now too, with Casas having the hair match with Blue Panther and Santo having the 2/25/12 Todo X el Todo tag match.

EDIT: I watched Casas/Santo 97 and I feel very comfortable with it as a five star match.


----------



## Yeah1993

Yeah, there's constant talk that Santo and Casas (+Panther) are the best going today. *****'s got the Panther feud and the match with La Sombra and Santo's apparently had more than a couple of really good outings. I haven't seen any of it yet, though.

I've watched the 1997 Santo/Casas match like four times, thinking it was good enough to call "five stars" each time. It's a weird case where I never think the match will hold up as well but usually does. Won't surprise me if I think's it's still five (or a billion) stars. Sort-of-related note: choosing 1997 match of the year is a prick of a decision.


----------



## milkman7

I think it's even harder to choose one from 89. Or maybe an even more difficult decision would be trying to decide which year was better for wrestling.


----------



## Yeah1993

89's pretty easy for me because I prefer the Clash Flair/Steamboat to any match to ever happen in the US (could see my mind changing a lot, but it hasn't in a while). 97 has literally five or six matches I think are good enough to call MOTY with a dozen more floating around that are borderline (or even easy) choices for "top 100 best matches ever." 

But yeah, 89 v 97 as a decision would probably make my head hurt.


----------



## sexytyrone97

1989: Flair vs Stramboat, easy choice.
1997: I'd have to say SCSA vs Bret Hart. Tough one though.


----------



## Yeah1993

Which Flair/Steamboat?


----------



## sexytyrone97

Chi Town Rumble.

The one in Philly was good too.


----------



## BKKsoulcity

Richards and Edwards 2 deserved a 5 IMO as well as KENTA and Marufuji for the GHC Heavyweight. I'm guessing it's just my style to enjoy the junior heavyweight type matches opposed to all the Kobashi matches which I feel are overrated especially the Joe one


----------



## topper1

BKKsoulcity said:


> 'm guessing it's just my style to enjoy the junior heavyweight type matches opposed to all the Kobashi matches which I feel are overrated especially the Joe one


Or you just don't like a nice complex story and its easier to watch Jr's move fast and hit each other hard then think about a Kings Road match. A Kobashi match is like The Godfather,Seven Samurai,12 Angry Men etc... while a Davey/KENTA match is more like Transformers or any other simple to follow without much thinking action film.

No hate by the way I enjoyed Davey vs Eddie in June a lot.


----------



## Chismo

EDIT: nvm.


----------



## Bubz

I only have the 2/3 falls Flair/Steamboat match at 5. It's incredible.

Recently watched Kobashi/Misawa 99, and imo it's only slightly behind their January 97 match. I never see it talked about at all, it's far better than the 98 match and definitely in the 5 star range.

Kawada/Taue vs Misawa/Akiyama (6/12/96) ***** KAWADA IS GOD!


----------



## Chismo

6/11/99? Yes, it is fucking incredible. Five stars just like that. 43 minutes of Ronaldo vs. Messi, Roger vs. Rafa.


----------



## IAmLegend12.21.12

> NOAH NAVIGATE FOR EVOLUTION 03/01/2003: Kenta Kobashi Vs Mitsuharu Misawa - {*****}
> 
> ROH JOE VS KOBASHI 10/01/2005: Kenta Kobashi Vs Samoa Joe - {*****}
> 
> ROH SUPERCARD OF HONOR 03/31/2006: Do Fixer Vs Blood Generation - {*****}
> 
> ROH RISING ABOVE 12/29/2007: Austin Aries Vs Nigel McGuinness - {*****}
> 
> TNA UNBREAKABLE 09/11/2005: Samoa Joe Vs A.J Styles Vs Christopher Daniels - {*****}
> 
> WWF IN YOUR HOUSE: BADD BLOOD 10/05/1997: Shawn Michaels Vs The Undertaker - {*****}
> 
> WWE NO MERCY 10/20/2002: Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle Vs Edge & Rey Mysterio Jr - {*****}
> 
> WWE ROYAL RUMBLE 01/19/2003: Kurt Angle Vs Chris Benoit - {*****}
> 
> ROH SHOWDOWN IN THE SUN - NIGHT II 03/31/2012: Davey Richards Vs Michael Elgin - {*****}
> 
> NOAH AUTUMN NAVIGATION 10/29/2006: Naomichi Marufuji Vs KENTA - {*****}
> 
> NOAH SUMMER NAVIGATION 2007 07/15/2007: KENTA & Taiji Ishimori Vs Kota Ibushi & Naomichi Marufuji - {*****}​


I Have All These Matches In My Mega Post Just In Case If You Guys Want To Download Them & Watch The Ones You Haven't Seen Or Just If You Wanna Go Back And Watch It Again​


----------



## Bubz

Is it bad that I've never seen Taker/Shawn HIAC?


----------



## Chismo

BUBZ said:


> Is it bad that I've never seen Taker/Shawn HIAC?












:tyson


----------



## WOOLCOCK

BUBZ said:


> Is it bad that I've never seen Taker/Shawn HIAC?


Change that soon, its one of the best pure storytelling matches the company has put on. And it wasn't like HHH/Taker where they tried to make it 'THE MOST DRAMATIC MATCH TO END ALL MATCHES'. It was natural and was told through the character dynamics, Shawn's performance is terrific and the fact its the debut of the Cell makes all the violence feel fresh and horrifying. Its not as brutal as say Lesnar/Taker or Batista/HHH, but in some ways HBK feels like a lamb about to be slaughtered and they capture that theme perfectly throughout the match. Hell you actually start to feel some remorse for the asshole.


----------



## Bubz

JoeRulz said:


>


:lmao makes me laugh every time. What a boss Tak is.

Can't tell you why I've never seen it, always been meaning to, just never got around to it.

I just watched it . Incredible match. I'd go as far as to say it's one of the best ever, or at least the best WWF/E match ever. Basically what Segunda said as well as Cal's review earlier in the thread. Michaels' performance is genius, matches like this and the Mind Games match with Foley really back up the claim that he is one of the best performers to ever step into a ring. Awesome.

I'm probably gonna go watch the Taker/Michaels matches from Mania 25 and 26 now lol.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I'd probably go HIAC > 26 >>>>>> 25 for HBK/Taker.

26 is damn close to the full 5 for me, brilliant storytelling and drama/selling in between the sequences and definitely one of the best displays of the WWE Main Event style especially compared to Taker/HHH after it which haven't come close to replicating that.


----------



## Chismo

Yeah, that HIAC is the best/greatest match in WWF/E history. Just brilliant. The atmosphere, the IT factor, the storytelling, the drama, emotions, KANE... ***** easily. The G.O.A.T.


----------



## Bubz

I definitely had the 26 match above the 25 match last time I watched them. Both are brilliant though, but I seem to remember 26 having a better pace as well as better selling. Saying that though, Taker's facial expressions seriously were incredible in the 25 match.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Taker's selling in the 26 match was the best performance in any of the HBK/Taker and HHH/Taker matches, and Shawn was a much better foil in the 26 match with the callback spots to the Flair feud (inverted figure four which he hadn't used since 2008) and the NWO 2006 finish (reverses Hells Gate into the bridging pinning position). There's also a wonderful callback to the 25 match when Taker 'hurts' his knee off of Old School and HBK to see if he's faking like HBK did the year before feigns a SCM to see if Taker really is hurt...and then immediately works the leg when he realises its legit.

The closest thing to a botch in the match also actually adds to the match as well (moonsault through the table onto the leg).

Only major downside is the 26 crowd didn't come nearly as loud as the Houston crowd and because of running the match 2 years in a row people didn't buy the earlier finishers (though that's been a staple of Taker matches at Wrestlemania since the Batista match, but its still a valid argument for preferring the 25 match even if I don't agree with it).


----------



## geraldinhio

Dammit , now I've to watch the Bad Blood HIAC again. Been ages since I've seen it and only ever seen it once thinking about it. 

Don't think I've seen Bryan Danielson vs Takeshi Morishima from Manhattan Mayhem mentioned at all in this thread. I've a lengthy review poster in the Indy DVD thread. It's one of the easiest matches I've ever given 5 stars being honest. Anyone share the same love for it? I think I'm by myself on this on.

I watched Steenerico vs The Briscoes from DBD V night 1 for the first time and was blown away. Enjoyed it much more than the ladder war. Very tempted to give it the 5 stars.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Its one of Danielson's best matches in the company, but I wouldn't go ***** for it. If I had to give any Danielson match the full 5 it would either be v Nigel at 6th Anniversary Show or v Strong Vendetta.


----------



## Chismo

geraldinhio said:


> Dammit , now I've to watch the Bad Blood HIAC again. Been ages since I've seen it and only ever seen it once thinking about it.
> 
> Don't think I've seen Bryan Danielson vs Takeshi Morishima from Manhattan Mayhem mentioned at all in this thread. I've a lengthy review poster in the Indy DVD thread. It's one of the easiest matches I've ever given 5 stars being honest. Anyone share the same love for it? I think I'm by myself on this on.
> 
> I watched Steenerico vs The Briscoes from DBD V night 1 for the first time and was blown away. Enjoyed it much more than the ladder war. Very tempted to give it the 5 stars.


Dragon/Shima - I agree with Caida, I don't think it's *****, but I can definitely see why you see it that way. It was marvelous. The storytelling (David vs. Goliath) was cinematic/epic, and the crowd was red fucking hot.

Steenerico/DemBoys - I have it at *****. It's brutal as brutal can be. It was storytelling about hatred 101. One of the best tag team matches ever, IMO. It's impressive that they managed to be so violent, yet so smart and not over the top.


----------



## milkman7

I think if you are going to give an AmDrag match a full five it would the Low Ki match from the second show. It's fucking awesome matwork that nobody else in America could/would give you.


----------



## Chismo

milkman7 said:


> I think if you are going to give an AmDrag match a full five it would the Low Ki match from the second show. It's fucking awesome matwork that *nobody else in America could/would give you.*


Styles/Low Ki, ROH 2002. Can't remember the name of the show.


----------



## geraldinhio

Just two matches I've never seen getting much praise as 5 stars . What exactly do you think takes away from Dragon/Shima being a five star match? I've heard many say it's because Danielson didn't have any believable near falls. Which I disagree with. 

I'm glad someone shares the same opinion about the Steenerico/Briscoes match. Man I miss Steenerico so much. Anyway, it's up there with Wolves/ Black and Danielson as ROH's best thing. Thinking about it , I liked it more.

Just finished watching HIAC. Better than what I recalled . Saying that it was 5 or 6 years since I've seen it. It's very hard to argue that Shawn wasn't the best WWF/E wrestler ever. And simply just one of the best ever.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I prefer Danielson/Low Ki JAPW and Hero/Rotten IWA as far as indy matches go with swank looking matwork. Danielson/Ki looked straight out of RINGS and the fact it was zoomed in made all the counters and transitions look extra slick and gritty.

Danielson/Morishima; I can't think off the top of my head but it just didn't grab me as a ***** match. I mean I love Benoit/Finlay Judgement Day 2006 to the point where I'd say its a lock for top 20 in WWF/E history...but its not a ***** match. Also doesn't help I haven't watched Danielson/Morishima since mid 2010.


----------



## geraldinhio

I've heard great things about the Hero/Rotten match but never even thought about watching it but might give it a look soon. It just feels weird to have Rotten ( And even a young Chris Hero for that matter)in a great match. It's been pimped a lot though.

Blood Generation vs DO Fixer is usually a regular on everyones five star list. I'm not a big fan of the dragon gate style or multimen matches at all but I can see why it gets praised so much. Awesome , innovative , crisp and flawless action from start to finish that made everyman look like a million bucks. Top that off with a red hot crowd and it's a damn great match. Six man matches usually aren't this great and very hard to pull off but this is one of the best ones I remember. Maybe not the full five , just the because the style isn't my cup of tea but a really fun , great match. ****1/2


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Good luck finding a link, I saw it a couple of times off of a megaupload link thanks to *Yeah1993* but I'm sure it died before megaupload did and I haven't been able to track another down. But yeah, feels all gritty and unco-operative and there's some meaty strikes dished out as well to add to the tension in each exchange. Rotten isn't exactly gonna be pulling counters at a speed that impresses you but he does a lot better than his reputation on the internet would suggest.

Meh, the DG 6 man was perfect for introducing the style to ROH and winning the crowd over....but its just not my cup of tea as a wrestling match. Insane athleticism, ridiculously hot crowd and a perfect way to sell DG to a new audience but I don't think of it as a great match for purely personal taste reasons. Can easily see why its adored however and it was exactly the sort of match they had to work in that context.


----------



## Chismo

geraldinhio said:


> Just two matches I've never seen getting much praise as 5 stars . What exactly do you think takes away from Dragon/Shima being a five star match? I've heard many say it's because Danielson didn't have any believable near falls. Which I disagree with.


Idk, it's not because of the lack of (Dragon's) believable nearfalls, and I'm certainly not taking anything away from the match. The match is absolutely awesome, but not for the ***** territory, especially when you compare it to the other ROH ***** matches, like Nigel/Dragon (Unified), Joe/Punk II or KENTA/Dragon.


----------



## milkman7

I've heard great things about Hero/Rotten and the JAPW match, but I've never seen them. So I guess what I am saying is that I want to see them. *Heads to request thread.*


----------



## malek

May I just ask are there any Shelley matches, both solo or as part of Guns that people on here would rate at ***** ?

Thanks


----------



## Bubz

Danielson/Shima is fucking awesome as tits, but for some reason I didn't see it as a 5 star match. I can't remember much from it though, I've only seen it once and that was a while ago.

IMO, Danielson/McGuinness from 6YA is the best ROH match ever. The stroytelling and character work, especially from Nigel, is completely untouchable as far as ROH matches go. Danielson/KENTA from Driven is my second favorite Dragon match (I like it more than the GBH V match).

@ malek, imo the best Shelley/MCMG match is either MCMG vs Briscoes from Good Times Great Memories or MCMG vs Danielson/Aries from Fuelling The Fire (I think thats the show it was from). I would rate both at about ****3/4.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Stan Hansen vs Toshiaki Kawada 2/28/93. This is a good match. Anybody who remotely enjoys 90s AJPW needs to watch.


----------



## Yeah1993

Segunda Caida said:


> Good luck finding a link, I saw it a couple of times off of a megaupload link thanks to *Yeah1993* but I'm sure it died before megaupload did and I haven't been able to track another down.


Yup. I only watched it on megavideo too, so I kick myself every day for not actually downloading it. Haven't been able to watch it for two YEARS.

I remember Dragon/Ki from the second ROH being great, but I preferred the JAPW submission match and the other one from PWG's All Star Weekend Day 4, Night 7, Match...9..... with cheese...it was in 2008, IDK.



milkman7 said:


> I've heard great things about Hero/Rotten and the JAPW match, but I've never seen them. So I guess what I am saying is that I want to see them. *Heads to request thread.*


I've already tried to request Hero/Rotten (in more places than one). given up hope by now. :sad: It'd seem like I deleted the JAPW match from my computer. I hope to Christ I put it on disc.



bigbuxxx said:


> Stan Hansen vs Toshiaki Kawada 2/28/93. This is a good match. Anybody who remotely enjoys 90s AJPW needs to watch.


Not going to lie, I thought this was way, way, way better than Hansen v Kobashi when I watched them within a couple of hours of each other last year. Total classic, btw.


----------



## Bubz

Yeah1993 said:


> Not going to lie, I thought this was way, way, way better than Hansen v Kobashi when I watched them within a couple of hours of each other last year. Total classic, btw.


Yeah, definitely. That match is amazing.


----------



## bigbuxxx

I also thought it was better than Hansen/Kobashi but didn't want to add my own hyperbole. Recently watched Hansen/Kobashi and found it kinda boring in some spots but it definitely had it's drama. Hansen/Kawada is just such an in your face match in comparison and tons of drama.


----------



## Bubz

I re-watched both the WM 25 and 26 Taker/Shawn matches and I think both are as close as you can get without actually giving the full 5. I don't know, while they are both amazing, it's similar to the Bryan/Shima match mentioned earlier, it's fucking awesome but for some reason I can't go the full 5 and I can't quite put my finger on it.

Btw, talking of Michaels and his WM matches, what do you guys think of Michaels vs Flair, vs Angle and vs Cena? Because I've been watching a bunch of Michaels stuff again recently and they are next on my re-watch list and I can't really remember anything from them apart from the 'I'm sorry, I love you' ending to the Flair match.


----------



## Bruce L

malek said:


> May I just ask are there any Shelley matches, both solo or as part of Guns that people on here would rate at ***** ?
> 
> Thanks


I'd go the full ***** for MCMGs/Briscoes at RoH's _Good Times, Great Memories_, and probably pretty close for their 2/3 falls match against Beer Money Inc. at TNA's "Whole F'n Show" special Impact, and for their match with Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black at _Tag Wars 2008_ (RoH again). Their match with the Kings of Wrestling at _Supercard of Honor V_ is a 5-star body with a terrible ending; well worth watching, but averages out less than ***** by my reckoning.


----------



## BKKsoulcity

I really want to watch Aries and Nigel Guinness 12/29/06 I believe? BUT I can never find a d/l link!! HELP!! I've watched every 5 star and 4 star 3/4 match in ROH history except this one


----------



## Ali Dia

It was in 07 not 06, and it's my pick for best ever ROH match.


----------



## BKKsoulcity

R.Scorpio said:


> It was in 07 not 06, and it's my pick for best ever ROH match.


Now youre just really building this up. I WANNA WATCH.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

BUBZ said:


> I re-watched both the WM 25 and 26 Taker/Shawn matches and I think both are as close as you can get without actually giving the full 5. I don't know, while they are both amazing, it's similar to the Bryan/Shima match mentioned earlier, it's fucking awesome but for some reason I can't go the full 5 and I can't quite put my finger on it.
> 
> Btw, talking of Michaels and his WM matches, what do you guys think of Michaels vs Flair, vs Angle and vs Cena? Because I've been watching a bunch of Michaels stuff again recently and they are next on my re-watch list and I can't really remember anything from them apart from the 'I'm sorry, I love you' ending to the Flair match.


Flair match is a good story and fitting end to Flair's career, but its not a very good match in terms of pure ring work due to Flair's broken down body. Still they did well to make the story and emotion the centre of the match and thus keep the crowd invested past the subpar ringwork. Plus HBK's missed moonsault is just hideous, up there with Austin/Benoit and Benoit/Booker for best announce table bump.

Angle match is about ***1/4-***1/2. Atmosphere is great and it feels like an 'EPIC' spectacle, but bar the opening with HBK surprising Angle with matwork and trading holds its too counter-counter for my liking. I can absolutely see why people think of it as a top Mania match of all time, but its just not really what I like these days and I vastly prefer Taker/Orton and the MITB for MOTN candidates.

Cena match I truly love, feels like a top 5 WM Main Event match alongside Taker/HBK II, Rock/Austin 17 and Benoit/HHH/HBK.


----------



## Bubz

I watched the Flair match and really loved it. I thought Flair did incredibly well in it and it was awesome to see him pull out all the stops, he even hit the top rope move we've been wanting to see for years and it actually looked good lol. Michaels Moonsault through the table was ridiculous, there is no way he wasn't fucked after that. He basically missed another one all the way from the top to the floor which looked ridiculous as well. Poor guy. The emotion was awesome, and the end was incredible but yeah, not the best in ring work for a Michaels WM match, but I still loved it for other reasons. Definitely not 5 like I remember people rating it at the time.


----------



## bigbuxxx

BKKsoulcity said:


> I really want to watch Aries and Nigel Guinness 12/29/06 I believe? BUT I can never find a d/l link!! HELP!! I've watched every 5 star and 4 star 3/4 match in ROH history except this one


i actually have that up on my YT channel . just watched this two nights ago and it is incredible. i don't think this is the best ROH match ever but it's probably the one i've watched the most (at least > 10 times).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCvtbNdoW3Q


----------



## antoniomare007

Segunda Caida said:


> Change that soon, its one of the best pure storytelling matches the company has put on. And it wasn't like HHH/Taker where they tried to make it 'THE MOST DRAMATIC MATCH TO END ALL MATCHES'. It was natural and was told through the character dynamics, Shawn's performance is terrific and the fact its the debut of the Cell makes all the violence feel fresh and horrifying. Its not as brutal as say Lesnar/Taker or Batista/HHH, but in some ways HBK feels like a lamb about to be slaughtered and they capture that theme perfectly throughout the match. *Hell you actually start to feel some remorse for the asshole.*


fuck having remorse for the Has Been Kid.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I said *some*, I still mark like a little kid when Taker whales him with the chair shot


----------



## Bubz

Segunda Caida said:


> I said *some*, I still mark like a little kid when Taker whales him with the chair shot


Amazing chair shot 8*D


----------



## malek

Thanks everyone for responding to my "Shelley" question.

I've seen both quoted MCMG matches, but for some reason I loved bit more their match against Kings of Wrestlong, although it really doesn't have ending (it was brilliant how Shelley countered Heroe's huge elbows with quick rapid fire of his own), and their match against Steenerico.

Absolutely loved his one on one match against Hero in PWG as well. Must say that I most love Shelley while portreting dominated guy who is capable of winning a match in an instance with something unexpected and "out of his sleeve".


----------



## Chismo

I remember Shelley having an awesome match with Punk in ROH. Can't remember when, it was back in 2004/05.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Somebody pm'ed me and asked me to give him more matches (if i had them) from my YT channel so I'm going to give you guys all the PWG/ROH matches I have on my channel that were listed in this thread at 5* at some point or another. In no order:



Spoiler: amazing matches



Do Fixer vs Blood Generation - SCoH II
Generico vs Steen - Final Battle '10
Joe vs Kobashi
Joe vs Punk II
KENTA vs Bryan Danielson - Glory By Honor V Night 2
Steen/Tozawa vs Ricochet/Generico - All Star Weekend 8
KENTA vs Lo Ki - Final Battle '04
KOW vs MCMG - SCoH V
Nigel vs Bryan - 6th Year Anniversary
Joe vs Punk - ASE II (their 3rd match)
Nigel vs Bryan - Driven '08
Nigel vs Bryan - Unified
Bryan vs Morishima - Manhattan Mayhem II
Claudio vs Generico - Kurt Russell Reunion II
American Wolves vs Bryan/Black - Tag Title Classic
Aries vs Joe - Final Battle '04
Aries/Strong vs Briscoes - Unified
Tyler Black vs Davey Richards - DBD VIII
Briscoes vs Generico/Steen - Ladder War - Man Up
Briscoes vs MCMG - Good Times, Great Memories
Danielson vs Morishima - Final Battle '08
Nigel vs Danielson - Driven '07


Apologies if this isn't welcome. Thought it would be nice for people who haven't gotten their hands on this stuff. (Y)


----------



## milkman7

It was me that sent the PM. Great post. You sir, are my hero.


----------



## Bubz

I'm adding HBK/HHH from Summerslam 02 to my list. Incredible match. I hadn't watched it since it happened, it's just beautiful storytelling effectively mixed in with awesome spots and so much fun as well. One of my favorite matches ever probably.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Can't say I'm the biggest fan of HHH/HBK Summerslam 2002 after the last watch. Main issue I have is how the first half and second half are just so disjointed in regards to the story, first half has HHH employing a meticulous workover of the back and the theme being 'does HBK still 'it' or is washed up and over the hill?'. Then somewhere in the second half they're using ladders and tables and its an all out brawl and HBK goes from being this underdog striving to prove he is still the better man into a psycho trying to murder HHH.

I dunno, it felt like the beginning and end of a feud in one match. The first half established a clear comeback story and had you invested on whether HBK could win against a guy claiming to have surpassed him, the post match sledgehammer assault would be the perfect set up for a rematch down the line in which they pulled out the ladders, tables and brawling element. As two separate matches they could been very good but I just wasn't feeling the combination into 1 match. I understand HHH smashing HBK's face into the glass gives a reason for the match to be heated, but I'd have rather they did a match entirely based around brawling, or didn't run that angle and instead built it as a singles match based around HBK trying to prove to the world he wasn't over the hill.

The nip up spot is also something I can totally see annoying people who adore limbwork and don't like when its ends up being pointless down the finishing stretch, ironically enough I didn't hate it nearly as much here as I bought it as HBK fighting through the pain and self doubt to once again channel his inner magic and win one of the most important matches in his life. It doesn't make me love the match any more (since the blowoff of the earlier work does irk me) but I can at least find a compelling reason for the spot instead of some other matches where the nip up spot has really taken me out of a match (see the Jericho Wrestlemania 19 match).


----------



## Bubz

Yeah, the nip up did kind of annoy me at first to be honest, but I then thought about it and had the same view as you on it. I don't know, I just really dug the match from start to finish, but the first half was better with HHH working over the back. That backbreaker on the chair was awesome looking.


----------



## BKKsoulcity

bigbuxxx said:


> i actually have that up on my YT channel . just watched this two nights ago and it is incredible. i don't think this is the best ROH match ever but it's probably the one i've watched the most (at least > 10 times).
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCvtbNdoW3Q


Holy!! Thank you so much!! Love you


----------



## Concrete

Almost done with DVD's top 20 NJPW matches of the 90s and I can say almost for sure that these matches are 5 stars for me:
-El Samurai vs. Koji Kanemoto(6/5/97)
-Ultimo Dragon vs. Shinjiro Ohtani(8/4/96)

I probably have asked this question before but everytime I was watching a Ohtani match on this set I found myself wondering why the hell I hadn't heard of him before. He is a major league bad ass and I felt bad for any wrestler that happened to be standing across from him.

I don't usually give matches 5* but these two matches were amazing enough where I just had to give them the full monty. I have not watch nearly as much as almost anyone else on this damn awesome thread but I'll probably post my list tomorrow for shits and gigs.


----------



## antoniomare007

?

Ohtani has always been considered one of the best juniors ever as far as I know. His peak wasn't very long but he was "GOAT" status for a while. Even as a heavyweight he's still awesome and manages to make most of his matches at least fun.


----------



## Yeah1993

Ohtani/Ultimo was really great, but I think I prefer 3/96 v Liger and I DEFINITELY prefer 1/96 v Samurai. Ohtani was on fire for 96.

Samurai/Kanemoto is one of the bigger matches I've never seen before.


----------



## Bubz

Making my way through DVD's top 20 of the 90's list for NJPW and Liger/Samurai BOSJ Final 92 is absolutely incredible. Pissed off Liger is one of the greatest things ever in history. So simple but so fucking awesome.


----------



## MF83

Indeed. Copying/pasting from the other thread my top 25 (all 5 stars) from before 2000 Japan!



> Giant Baba vs. The Destroyer 3/5/69
> 
> Billy Robinson vs. Jumbo Tsuruta 3/5/77
> 
> Billy Robinson vs. Jumbo Tsuruta 3/11/77
> 
> Tiger Mask vs. Dynamite Kid 8/5/82
> 
> Gauntlet Match: Choshu, Yatsu, Hamaguchi, Teranishi & Kuniaki Kobayashi vs Inoki, Fujinami, Fujiwara, Kengo Kimura & Takada 4/19/84
> 
> Jumbo Tsuruta and Genichiro Tenryu vs. Riki Choshu and Yoshiaki Yatsu 1/28/86
> 
> Genichiro Tenryu & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Stan Hansen & Terry Gordy 12/16/88
> 
> Jumbo Tsuruta vs Genichiro Tenryu 6/6/89
> 
> Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Jumbo Tsuruta 6/8/90
> 
> Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue & Masanobu Fuchi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada & Kenta Kobashi 10/19/90
> 
> Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada & Kenta Kobashi vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue & Masanobu Fuchi 4/20/91
> 
> Jushin Liger vs. El Samurai 4/30/92
> 
> Dan Kroffat & Doug Furnas vs. Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi 05/25/92
> 
> Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi 4/14/93
> 
> Stan Hansen vs. Kenta Kobashi 7/29/93
> 
> "Wild Pegasus" Chris Benoit vs. Great Sasuke 4/16/94
> 
> Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi 5/21/94
> 
> Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada 6/3/94
> 
> Akira Taue vs. Mitsuharu Misawa 4/15/95
> 
> Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue 6/9/95
> 
> Gran Hamada, Super Delfin, Tiger Mask, Gran Naniwa, & Masato Yakushiji vs. Dick Togo, MEN’s Teioh, Shiryu, TAKA Michinoku & Sho Funaki 10/10/96
> 
> Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama 12/06/96
> 
> Kenta Kobashi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa 1/20/97
> 
> Koji Kanemoto vs. El Samurai 6/5/97
> 
> Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi 6/12/98


----------



## Concrete

Yeah1993 said:


> Ohtani/Ultimo was really great, but I think I prefer 3/96 v Liger and I DEFINITELY prefer 1/96 v Samurai. Ohtani was on fire for 96.
> 
> Samurai/Kanemoto is one of the bigger matches I've never seen before.


The 3/17/96 Liger vs. Ohtani match also is another match that I loved. I didn't get into the 1/29/96 match as much.I still thought it was great at about **** but I didn't see anything past that.

I don't hear about a lot of NJPW Jrs. at that point in general. I knew about Sasuke, Liger, Dragon, Black Tiger, Benoit, but not much else. Whenever I look for something to watch from 90s Japan I get bombarded with AJPW matches so Ohtani didn't pop up on my radar.


----------



## MF83

You should aaaall do Michinoku Pro. Start with the 10 man in my post there. Ditch has much of the best of the 90s before and after that. Kainetai DX is one of the greatest stables ever.


----------



## Concrete

Weird I was actually going to be watching the 10 man tonight. I was going to buy the Best of M-Pro set from IVP a few months ago but I decided against it because it didn't have the 10 man. If I really like it I'll probably end up getting that set. I have this feeling that the 10 man is going to be quite the doozy.


----------



## Yeah1993

MF83 said:


> You should aaaall do Michinoku Pro. Start with the 10 man in my post there. Ditch has much of the best of the 90s before and after that. Kainetai DX is one of the greatest stables ever.


Oh man, I can't tell you how quickly I feel in love with 90s M-Pro. 1996 has a good handful of matches alone that are just excellent. The 12/1, 12/9, 12/16, 10/10, and 3/16 mutli-tags are amazing and everything else I've seen is really worth a watch. 

KAI-EN-TAI


----------



## Yeah1993

enlightenedone9 said:


> I was going to buy the Best of M-Pro set from IVP a few months ago but I decided against it because it didn't have the 10 man.


I'm 99% sure the last match of disc 6 of the M-Pro comp is the 10/10/96 10-man tag.

EDIT- apologies for double post. screw up on my part.


----------



## Chismo

Segunda Caida said:


> Main issue I have is how the first half and second half are just so disjointed in regards to the story, first half has HHH employing a meticulous workover of the back and the theme being 'does HBK still 'it' or is washed up and over the hill?'. Then somewhere in the second half they're using ladders and tables and its an all out brawl and HBK goes from being this underdog striving to prove he is still the better man into a psycho trying to murder HHH.


Tbh, that part of the storytelling is the biggest reason why I love that match.


----------



## Concrete

Yeah1993: I might be missing it or I'm looking at a different set because I am looking and I see an 8-man tag with no date that could be a little typo. Otherwise there are a couple of matches from that show just not that one it seems to me, which I found weird. No matter what I got the 10-Man on DVD


----------



## MF83

Man, the early (93 I believe) mask vs title (I think) match between Delfin and Sasuke is one of the most underrated matches of the 90s. My favourite multi-man is probably the one on an Inoki show in 94 I think.


----------



## Yeah1993

enlightenedone9 said:


> Yeah1993: I might be missing it or I'm looking at a different set because I am looking and I see an 8-man tag with no date that could be a little typo. Otherwise there are a couple of matches from that show just not that one it seems to me, which I found weird. No matter what I got the 10-Man on DVD


I'm just guessing, but the one with no date is likely the 10/10/96 tag. The beginning of the next disc has two matches from 10/10/96 so I'm making an educated guess.


----------



## Bubz

I just watched Angle vs Taker from NWO 06 for the first time. Taker was so great with his selling and Kurt's offense has never made more sense in a match that I can recall. Probably one of the best matches WWE has ever put on, should have been at Mania and it would have made it feel even more epic than it was. Maybe I'm overrating it slightly but the fact that everything Angle and Taker did made complete sense, and the awesome workrate of the match combined made it far surpass my expectations. The finishing stretch was pretty amazing to watch.

It's really sad whats happened to Kurt in TNA, the man was so awesome when the time called for it. If he had stayed in WWE I don't think theres any way he would have evolved into the spot happy guy he is today.


----------



## Yeah1993

Would have been terrific for that to happen at Mania. It was a great match and Rey could have faced Orton (like their fucking awesome match two days after Mania which I still think is Orton's best match) instead of the dogshit three-way and mediocre Taker/Henry.


----------



## Concrete

M-Pro's 10-Man Tag (10/10/96) just rocked my world. I really don't got much else to say other than that.


----------



## Bubz

I have a question for you folkes. I haven't seen much of Liger after the 90's, so is there anything that is as good as his 90's stuff or anything I really should watch?


----------



## Bruce L

Pretty much anything he's in from the first New Japan/NOAH feud in '02 - '03 is definitely worth watching.


----------



## Little Mac

Need to watch a few more WCW/NWA and I'm being lenient on a few but here's ma list.

*WWE*

Stone Cold Steve Austin vs The Rock - WrestleMania X-Seven [04/01/01]
Chris Benoit vs Triple H vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania XX [03/14/04]
Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs Rey Mysterio & Edge - WWE No Mercy [10/20/02]
Edge & Christian vs The Dudley Boyz vs The Hardy Boyz - WrestleMania X-Seven [04/01/01]
Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle - Wrestlemania XIX [3/30/03]
Owen Hart vs Bret Hart - WWF WrestleMania X [03/30/94]
The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania XXV [04/05/09]
CM Punk vs John Cena - Money in the Bank [7/17/11]
Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania 21 [04/03/05]

*WCW*

Ricky Steamboat vs Ric Flair - Clash of the Champions [04/02/89]

*ECW*

Eddy Guerrero vs Dean Malenko - Hardcore TV [08/26/95]

*ROH*

Kenta Kobashi vs Samoa Joe - Joe vs Kobashi [10/01/05]
CM Punk vs Samoa Joe - Joe vs Punk II [10/16/04]
CM Punk vs Samoa Joe - All Star Extravaganza II [12/04/04] 
CM Punk vs Samoa Joe - World Title Classic [06/12/04]
Bryan Danielson vs Paul London - The Epic Encounter [04/12/03]
Bryan Danielson vs KENTA - Glory By Honor V [09/16/06]
Bryan Danielson vs Lance Storm - Better Than Our Best [4/1/06]
Bryan Danielson vs Takeshi Morishima - Manhattan Mayhem II [08/25/07]
Blood Generation vs Do Fixer - Supercard of Honor [03/31/06]

*TNA*

A.J. Styles vs Christopher Daniels vs Samoa Joe - TNA Unbreakable [09/11/05]

*AJPW*

Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada [6/3/94]
Mitsuhura Misawa and Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada and Akira Taue [6/9/95]
Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Jumbo Tsuruta [6/8/90]


----------



## MF83

Speaking of that feud and 2000s Liger, I'll add both of these to my 5 star list actually.


NOAH 2/17/2002 – Tsuyoshi Kikuchi & Yoshinobu Kanemaru vs. Jushin Liger & Wataru Inoue:
NJPW 8/29/2002 – IWGP Junior Tag Championship – Jushin Liger & Minoru Tanaka © vs. Yoshinobu Kanemaru & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi


----------



## RKing85

So torn if I should add Richards/Elgin to my 5 star match list or not. Watched it twice and honestly, I think it's between 4 3/4 and 5 stars. Maybe 4 and 17/20 stars.


----------



## Bubz

I'm adding *Kobashi vs Honda 13/4/03* to my list I think. Finally got around to watching it as the d-lo link for it has been down for awhile. Incredible match, and my favorite Kobashi GHC defence right behind the Akiyama match and just edging out the Takayama match. I loved how Kobashi had to change his game plan in the match and actually wrestle on the mat with Honda for the majority. The finishing stretch was so awesome that the crowd, and even myself knowing the result, bought into Honda actually winning which beforehand must have been a ridiculous thought. Kobashi's face after Honda kicked out of the sleeper suplex was one of the best 'you can't be serious? What do I have to do?' faces ever. The crowd wasn't into it that much at the start, because lets face it, nobody would have believed Honda could de-throne Kobashi, but by the end they bought every single move and nearfall from both men. Awesome match. *******


----------



## Matt Flash

I'm sure no one will believe me, but Super Smash Brothers vs. Future Shock from PWG's DDT4 2012 was ***** for me. Live, at least. Future Shock vs. LDRS of the New School from wXw was pretty amazing as well, but because of they way everyone goes all out in PWG (Especially for tournaments) this came off as a lot more important. I also think it was a first time match between these two, but I could easily be wrong. This was everything I love about tag team wrestling, and I can't wait to see how well it holds up on DVD.


----------



## MF83

I figure this is -


----------



## Violent By Design

Shout outs to Lesnar vs Cena, it was a nice blend of shoot style, WWE style and old school NWA.


----------



## antoniomare007

MF83 said:


> I figure this is -


I liked their 97' (I think) IWGP title match better, but I'm glad somebody else appreciates that feud. Kazuo and Hash had tons of fun/great matches against each other, in singles and tags.


----------



## Yeah1993

Hashimoto/Yamazaki was a booking disappointments for me. They had TONS of excellent heated exchanges in 1996 (they looked to fucking HATE each other in tags), and I would have loved it had they met in the finals of the G-1 that year. Imagine how great THAT would have been. I get they wanted Choshu to have a shot at his former glory, and the match with Hash is really great (match with Chono is eh b/c Chono is a dull pile of nothing), but the thought of Hash v Yamazaki being the G-1 final (in 96, anyway) gets me giddy.

Did they have any 'I hate you, fucking CUNT' matches building to the 98 Final? If so I'll watch everything soon and eat my words.


----------



## bigbuxxx

bumping for a non 5* match because this thread is awesome.

Roderick Strong vs. Bryan Danielson @ Vendetta: ****3/4. I would put this at 5* if there was no ridiculous spot for blading 40 minutes into the f'n match. They should have both went after each other and been bleeding within 10 minutes. Before watching this I saw their match from "This Means War" and Dragon's match vs Sabin where he did everything in Roddy's move set which was lol. Does anybody know if Dragon was legit knocked out in the "This Means War" match?

knock out happens somewhere just after 13:30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hffxVvAmoik&feature=youtu.be


----------



## Bubz

Yeah Vendetta is awesome, think I have it rated at ****3/4 as well. Great shit. It's the only match between them I've seen apart from the HDNet match which was nowhere near the level. Need to see the SOH and the Anarchy In The UK matches because I hear a lot of different opinions on which is the best.

And well done for bumping this thread, one of the best on the forum.

I'm adding *Misawa vs Vader - AJPW Triple Crown 2/5/99*. 8*D Incredible match!


----------



## peachchaos

Just watched Vendetta again, thanks for the link. I'd probably go the full monty on that one, actually. I'm generally not all that impressed by 40+ minute matches, but this one is a clear exception. They have a great way of holding off on kicking it into high gear while not boring the hell out of the audience. Blade job didn't really distract from the match and I thought it came up at a nice time. Only detriment for me if the ref stoppage at the end, since it came after a pin attempt reversal and not a big impact move. So if I'm nit-picking, ****3/4. Most likely a top ten ROH match.

Makes me want to revist their HDNet match, even though I know it doesn't hold a candle to this.


----------



## IAmLegend12.21.12

*WWE/WWF*

- The Undertaker Vs Triple H - WWE WrestleMania XXVIII Apr.01.2012
- Shawn Michaels Vs The Undertaker - WWF In Your House 18: Badd Blood Oct.05.1997
- Cm Punk Vs John Cena - WWE Money In The Bank July.17.2011
- Rey Mysterio / Egde Vs Kurt Angle / Chris Benoit - WWE No Mercy Oct.20.2002
- Cactus Jack Vs Triple H - WWF Royal Rumble Jan.23.2000
- Chris Benoit Vs Kurt Angle - WWE Royal Rumble Jan.19.2003
- Triple H Vs Chris Benoit Vs Shawn Michaels - WWE WrestleMania XX Mar.14.2004
- Shawn Michaels Vs The Undertaker - WWE WrestleMania XXV Apr.05.2009

*ROH*

- Michael Elgin Vs Davey Richards - ROH Showdown In The Sun Night II Mar.31.2012
- Austin Aries Vs Nigel McGuinness - ROH Rising Above 2007 Dec.29.2007
- Bryan Danielson Vs Nigel McGuinness - ROH Unified Aug.12.2006
- KENTA Vs Bryan Danielson - ROH Glory By Honor Night II Sept.16.2006
- Blood Generation Vs Do Fixer - ROH Supercard Of Honor Mar.31.2006
- Kenta Kobashi Vs Samoa Joe - ROH Joe Vs Kobashi Oct.01.2005
- Davey Richards Vs Tyler Black - ROH Death Before Dishonor VIII Jun.19.2010
- American Dragon Vs Christopher Daniels Vs Low Ki - ROH The Era Of Honor Begins Feb.23.2002
- El Generico & Kevin Steen Vs The Briscoes - ROH Man Up Nov.30.2007
- Bryan Danielson Vs Takeshi Morashima - ROH Manhattan Mayhem II Aug.25.2007

*TNA*

- Samoa Joe Vs Christopher Daniels Vs Aj Styles - TNA Unbreakable 2005 Sept.11.2005
- Americas Most Wanted Vs Triple X - TNA Turning Point 2004 Dec.05.2004
- Aj Styles Vs Christopher Daniels - TNA Against All Odds 2005 Feb.13.2005
- Aj Styles Vs Samoa Joe - TNA Turning Point 2005 Dec.11.2005
- Kurt Angle Vs Desmond Wolfe - TNA Final Resolution 2009 Dec.20.2009


----------



## Bubz

I've added quite a lot since I last posted my list, so here's my updated version ...

*AJPW*
Misawa/Kobashi v Kawada/Taue (9/6/95)
Misawa/Kobashi v Kawada/Taue (12/3/93)
Misawa v Jumbo (1/9/90)
Misawa v Kawada (3/6/94)
Kobashi/Kikuchi vs Kroffat/Furnas (25/5/92)
Misawa vs Kobashi (20/01/97)
Misawa vs Kobashi (11/6/99)
Misawa v Taue (15/4/95)
Kawada v Hansen (28/2/93)
Tsuruta/Taue/Fuchi vs Misawa/Kawada/Kobashi (19/10/90)
Tsuruta/Taue/Fuchi vs Misawa/Kawada/Kobashi (20/4/91)
Kawada/Taue vs Misawa/Akiyama (6/12/96)
Misawa v Vader (2/5/99)
Akiyama v Suwama (23/10/11)

*WCW*
Flair v Steamboat 2/3 falls (Clash Of The Champions 89)

*WWE*
Taker vs Michaels (Bad Blood 97)
Bret vs Austin (Wrestlemania 13)
The Rock v Austin (Wrestlemania 17)
HHH v Michaels v Benoit (Wrestlemania 20)
Benoit & Angle v Edge & Mysterio (No Mercy 02)
Kurt Angle vs Undertaker (No Way Out 06)

*ROH*
Danielson v McGuinness (6YA)
Danielson/Black v American Wolves (Tag Title Classic)
Danielson v KENTA (Driven 07)
Joe v Punk II (Joe v Punk II)
Low Ki vs KENTA (Final Battle 05)
Joe v Kobashi (Joe v Kobashi)

*NOAH*
Kobashi v Akiyama (10/7/04)
Kobashi vs Honda (13/4/03)
Misawa v Kobashi (01/03/03)

*NJPW*
Wild Pegasus v Black Tiger II (BOSJ 96) 
Jushin Liger v Naoki Sano (31/01/90)
Jushin Liger v El Samurai (4/30/92)
Jushin Liger v Shinjiro Ohtani (9/2/97)

Matches that I absolutely love to watch but I just can't give the full 5 to for whatever reason would be...

Punk v Cena (MITB & Summerslam 11)
Austin/HHH v Benoit/Jericho (RAW 01)
Austin v Benoit (RAW & SD 01)
HBK v Taker (WM 25 & 26)
HHH vs Jericho (Fully Loaded 00)
Kobashi vs Takayama (NOAH 04)
Shiozaki v Sasaki (NOAH 24/7/10)
Kobashi v MiSu (NOAH 03 or 04?)
Punk v Bryan (Over The Limit 12)

My WWE list has decreased tons after re-watching loads of shit, but I also added some that weren't on there before like the tag match.

Also, @ bigbuxx, yeah it certainly looks like Dragon was legit KO'd to me. The way he just wakes up and shakes his head and lays in to String was awesome lol.


----------



## mk92071

I haven't given any match the big 5 yet just because I can't label anything I've watched as that good. I have trouble giving things higher than **** and have only given a handful ****1/2+. I've been watching lots of raved about matches lately since I've only been watching non-WWE stuff for about 2 years and none of it breaks into ***** territory. The best match I recently watched was Benoit vs. Great Sasuke at ****1/2.


----------



## USAUSA1

I hate star ratings in general, because an awesome Meng and Barbarian beatdown would probably get *3/4(and Scott Keith was notorious for low balling). 

I don't want to sit here and name every single match I think deserve a 5 star but I support Lesnar vs. Cena recent match because I haven't seen anything like it since Sting/Vader days.


----------



## Bubz

mk92071 said:


> I haven't given any match the big 5 yet just because I can't label anything I've watched as that good. I have trouble giving things higher than **** and have only given a handful ****1/2+. I've been watching lots of raved about matches lately since I've only been watching non-WWE stuff for about 2 years and none of it breaks into ***** territory. The best match I recently watched was Benoit vs. Great Sasuke at ****1/2.


You're in to Puro then I take it. Have you seen the 9/6/95 Holy Demon Army vs Kobashi/Misawa tag? because if you're in to Puro and you don;t have that at *****, I don't see much hope for anything else getting that rating from you lol. It's probably the single greatest wrestling match ever.


----------



## mk92071

BUBZ said:


> You're in to Puro then I take it. Have you seen the 9/6/95 Holy Demon Army vs Kobashi/Misawa tag? because if you're in to Puro and you don;t have that at *****, I don't see much hope for anything else getting that rating from you lol. It's probably the single greatest wrestling match ever.


I haven't seen much puro, only been watching puro for about a year and that was modern stuff. I haven't seen it yet, I've only seen a few AJPW matches.


----------



## Bubz

Ah right, cool beans. I haven't seen the most shit compared to some people on here, but I can tell you you've got a ton of awesome stuff to watch. I wish I could go back and see some of those AJPW matches for the first time again. Stuff like that tag match and Misawa/Jumbo completely blew me away when I first saw them.


----------



## mk92071

I'm just curious how people keep track of their star ratings. What I started doing late last year was recording all ***+ matches I watch in a notepad document and I'm around 400 matches rated.


----------



## Yeah1993

BUBZ said:


> I wish I could go back and see some of those AJPW matches for the first time again. Stuff like that tag match and Misawa/Jumbo completely blew me away when I first saw them.


I thought the same, until I found there was still AJ matches I would absolutely flip my shit over on first watch. I wasn't TOTALLY expecting something like Taue v Williams to give me a similar feeling to Hansen v Kawada (even if it wasn't AS good).


----------



## Bubz

Yeah definitely. I just saw that Vader/Misawa match last week, and I didn't expect it to be as good as it was since I hadn't heard much talk about it at all, and I was marking out like a child. When Misawa finally gets Vader rocking with those elbows I was completely losing it. It's just awesome to know that there's pretty much a whole decades worth of awesomeness to watch still.

@ mk92071, I do the same as you, I just have a notepad doc filled with my favorite matches. I have a separate one for the matches I think are 5* though, as in the ones I think are the best ever.


----------



## bigbuxxx

I have a document I keep that I grade in entertainment value instead of match quality since that's what actually matters to me. I have ~70 matches at 5*.

A match I never see get pimped as 5* is Jimmy Jacobs vs BJ Whitmer in a cage at SCoH II. That had loads of story in it and did it's job as a blowoff match as Jacobs loses a tooth and sustains an injury that keeps him out 9 months afterwards. It's sick. I may have to upload that.

I have yet to see the third match between Strong and Danielson but I have it upped already and I've seen it on people's list itt.

Danielson vs Strong @ SCoH


----------



## Bubz

You're awesome! Cheers for sharing these links man.


----------



## bigbuxxx

My pleasure. I'd like to up more but that requires splitting files now since YT took me to 15 minute d/l's and i'm pretty lazy. I think tomorrow I'll get to Jacobs vs Whitmer and KENTA vs Nigel from 7th Ann Show.


----------



## antoniomare007

BUBZ said:


> Yeah definitely. I just saw that Vader/Misawa match last week, and I didn't expect it to be as good as it was *since I hadn't heard much talk about it at all*, and I was marking out like a child. When Misawa finally gets Vader rocking with those elbows I was completely losing it. It's just awesome to know that there's pretty much a whole decades worth of awesomeness to watch still.


nobody reads my posts
























Just kidding. The Tokyo Dome going apeshit when Misawa starts doing his comeback is one of my favorite things ever. Vader is an unstoppable monster and the fans now it, but they also know that there's nothing their Ace (Misawa) can't elbow his way back from. As the tides begin to tun you can sense everyone going "oh shit, he's gonna do it again!".

The match being on Giant Baba's memorial show adds even more to it.


----------



## Bubz

:lmao

The crowd was amazing for that, and it's the Tokyo Dome too, so it was really loud. I watched their match from like, a few months after I think, still a great bomb fest but not quite as great, didn't have the epic atmosphere. I need to see their early NOAH match too.


----------



## Violent By Design

USAUSA1 said:


> I hate star ratings in general, because an awesome Meng and Barbarian beatdown would probably get *3/4(and Scott Keith was notorious for low balling).
> 
> I don't want to sit here and name every single match I think deserve a 5 star but I support Lesnar vs. Cena recent match because I haven't seen anything like it since Sting/Vader days.


But if its awesome from your perspective, why would you care what Scott Keith has to say? A star rating is no different from any other rating, it is your opinion on whether the match is good or bad.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Nigel vs KENTA @ 7th Anniversary Show

pt. 1
pt. 2
pt. 3


----------



## USAUSA1

Violent By Design said:


> But if its awesome from your perspective, why would you care what Scott Keith has to say? A star rating is no different from any other rating, it is your opinion on whether the match is good or bad.


I know but it gets annoying at times. I don't mind the star ratings but I hate when people do stuff like 1/2 or 3/4. It should be * ** *** **** *****, I think that is more simple. When you add 1/2 or 3/4, you are nitpicking.


----------



## Bubz

USAUSA1 said:


> I know but it gets annoying at times. I don't mind the star ratings but I hate when people do stuff like 1/2 or 3/4. It should be * ** *** **** *****, I think that is more simple. When you add 1/2 or 3/4, you are nitpicking.


But then there's the whole thing of putting two matches both in the **** category, but one might be a lot better than the other so it's unfair to stick them together in terms of quality. Giving something ****3/4 suggests that it was amazing but not on the level of some of the 5* matches, those being what you would consider the greatest matches you've seen.


----------



## bigbuxxx

wrt no 1/4, 1/2, 3/4. if there were none of those there would simply be more stars to choose from. instead of being a 5* system it would be rating from 1-10 or 1-20 or 1-100. makes little difference.


----------



## peachchaos

I appreciate star ratings, especially in reviews. Just from my perspective, it helps me know when to keep something in mind to watch in the future. Sure, I'll watch stuff that doesn't get good reviews if it features guys that I like, but I don't have enough time to watch every match so I try and watch stuff that's generally considered around **** or better. If someone just says a match is "good", well that's not giving me very much context.


----------



## Yeah1993

I haven't used star ratings in like over two years but if I went back to them I would have use 1/8s myself. WAYYYYYY too many matches are (e.g.) better than ****1/2 but not ****3/4 for me to keep just to 1/4s.


----------



## Violent By Design

If I were to use star ratings I would likely not use 1/4th stars, rating something 1/20 seems excessive to me.


----------



## Rock316AE

Rock/Austin WM17 
Rock/Jericho No Mercy 2001
Rock/HHH JD 2000
Rock/Benoit FL 2000
Rock/Angle/Taker Vengeance 2002 

Angle/Benoit Rumble 2003 
Angle/HBK WM21 
Angle/Austin Summerslam 2001 
Angle/Benoit vs Rey/Edge No Mercy 2002


----------



## bigbuxxx

BUBZ said:


> Stuff like that tag match and Misawa/Jumbo completely blew me away when I first saw them.


I still get goosebumps watching what I think are the very best matches. 12/3/93 and 6/9/95 tags, Jumbo/Misawa from June and September '90, along with the 6mans that preceded each match, 6/3/94, Jumbo/Tenryu from '89, Taue/Misawa on 4/15/95, and lots more.


----------



## StoneRockSvgTaker

Ric Flair vs. Terry Funk - Clash of the Champions IX
Ric Flair vs. Sting - The Great American Bash '90
Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio - Halloween Havoc '97
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit - Royal Rumble '03
Randy Savage vs. Ultimate Warrior - WM 7
John Cena vs. CM Punk - MITB '11
Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart - I Quit Match, Wrestlemania XIII
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit - Royal Rumble 2003
Randy Savage vs. Ricky Steamboat - Wrestlemania III
Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels - Iron Man Match, Wrestlemania XII
Razor Ramon vs. Shawn Michaels - Ladder Match, Wrestlemania X
riple H vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit - Wrestlemania XX
The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania 25
Kurt Angle vs. Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania 21
Randy Savage vs Ultimate Warrior - Wrestlemania 7
Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels - Hell in a Cell Match, Badd Blood 1997
Edge & Christian vs The Dudley Boyz vs The Hardy Boyz - WrestleMania 2000
Bret Hart vs British Bulldog - SummerSlam 1992
Shawn Michaels vs. Ric Flair - Wrestlemania 24
Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect - King of the Ring 1993
Bret Hart vs Owen Hart - Steel Cage Match, Summerslam 1994


----------



## Punkhead

Hardy Boyz vs Dudley Boyz vs E&C at Summerslam 2000
The Rock vs Steve Austin at Wrestlemania X-7
Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho at Summerslam 2000


----------



## Violent By Design

I decided to check out the uploading section of this site to rewatch some of the matches that were discussed, and I am sicken by the genocide of megaupload links that has occurred. I can't believe those guys just pulled the plug with no warning like that . So many great matches are going to be a pain on the butt to get.

Also, which Misawa vs Vader match are you guys talking about?


----------



## antoniomare007

Violent By Design said:


> I decided to check out the uploading section of this site to rewatch some of the matches that were discussed, and I am sicken by the genocide of megaupload links that has occurred. I can't believe those guys just pulled the plug with no warning like that . So many great matches are going to be a pain on the butt to get.
> 
> Also, which Misawa vs Vader match are you guys talking about?


the audio sucks, but couldn't find a better link.


----------



## smitlick

Violent By Design said:


> I decided to check out the uploading section of this site to rewatch some of the matches that were discussed, and I am sicken by the genocide of megaupload links that has occurred. I can't believe those guys just pulled the plug with no warning like that . So many great matches are going to be a pain on the butt to get.
> 
> Also, which Misawa vs Vader match are you guys talking about?


Google megaupload shutdown


----------



## Violent By Design

I'm well aware it was shut down, I was in the midst of uploading a collection of matches myself when the incident happened. This was just the first time I decided to take a look into the upload section, and I saw first hand the damage that was done . R.i.p Seabs threads especially. Even the All Japan 5 star Matches are gone .


----------



## smitlick

Oh lol.. From your post it looked like you were completely unaware.


----------



## mk92071

TomasThunder619 said:


> Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho at Summerslam 2000


Can I hear what made you give this the 5?


----------



## Violent By Design

Figure I might as well ask while I'm here.

What's a good site for me to upload matches? One that is really accessible for other people too?


----------



## seabs

*iFile*


----------



## Violent By Design

Seabs said:


> *iFile*


Do I have to download something called ilivid in order to use this?


----------



## seabs

*No. If you're looking to use it to upload then all you should have to do is browse the file on the upload screen and start uploading. You might have to create an account first but that's it.*


----------



## Chismo

*Roderick Strong vs. Jay Briscoe (ROH, Only The Strong Survive)*

I can't believe how fucking brilliant this match is. Storytelling, characters, structure. Pace, blood, drama, suspense. This match was damn near perfect. Everybody knew Jay has no chance in a World Title match against Roddy, but they did such a great job in making everyone believe that Jay could pull the upset. Outstanding match all around. These two have a really tremendous chemistry together, their 2008/09 series ruled too. Anyway, the only 2011 match better than this one was the Steen/Generico slugfest from Steen Wolf. This match is Top 10 in ROH history.
*Rating: ******


----------



## bigbuxxx

JoeRulz said:


> *Roderick Strong vs. Jay Briscoe (ROH, Only The Strong Survive)*
> 
> I can't believe how fucking brilliant this match is. Storytelling, characters, structure. Pace, blood, drama, suspense. This match was damn near perfect. Everybody knew Jay has no chance in a World Title match against Roddy, but they did such a great job in making everyone believe that Jay could pull the upset. Outstanding match all around. These two have a really tremendous chemistry together, their 2008/09 series ruled too. Anyway, the only 2011 match better than this one was the Steen/Generico spotfest from Steen Wolf. This match is Top 10 in ROH history.
> *Rating: ******


fyp. i've always wanted to see this match but just never gotten around to it. has gotten tremendous reviews from everybody.


----------



## McQueen

Got a link. I'm interested in watching that.


----------



## Chismo

I have it on my disk, but I can't find it online, because of all that Fileserve and MU shit.

EDIT: And how is that Ladder Match a spotfest? You trippin'.


----------



## Punkhead

Atlantis vs Villano III CMLL 2000-03-17 mask vs mask


----------



## Matt_Yoda

****List removed, now updated****


----------



## dylster88

I have three on my list that shouldv'e been Meltzere'd a Five.

1. Edwards vs. Richards II: Best in the World 2011 was a perfect setting fr this match. In front of a record crowd, two former allies kicked each other to death for thirty five minutes before Richards went on through. Had they shortened the match by two or three minutes, this would've definatley been a five star match.

2. Cactus Jack vs. Triple H: Their Royal Rumble match might not have been a technical bout, but the athmosphere, the intensity, the DEATH of Jack from those thumbtacks probably gave this match a possible advantage for a five star. 

3. Both Taker vs. HBK matches: Apparently, the only reason why WM 25's bout was given a 4 3/4 star rating was because of ther cameraman's botch. Come on man, that prevents a five star classic?


----------



## Violent By Design

i thought the cameraman's botch made the WM 25 match better. I bought into a count out finish.


----------



## peachchaos

Always thought that cameraman spot was supposed to be a callback to the original HIAC in some way and it was just a botched bump by Taker.


----------



## Yeah1993

I don't really understand what's botchy about it. It's a suicide dive, where you risk hurting yourself to hurt your opponent more. Just so happens Taker didn't touch Shawn. If anything's a botch in that match it's the godawful DDT.


----------



## bigbuxxx

or the superkick to the knee



> EDIT: And how is that Ladder Match a spotfest? You trippin'.


it has hate and it just has a ton of spots. i love the generico/steen rivalry but let's be honest, it was a spotfest.


----------



## Violent By Design

yeah, its a spotfest for sure.


----------



## SteveTheSmark

My list would be the following:

Bryan Danielson v Takeshi Morishima - Manhattan Mayhem 3
Kurt Angle v Undertaker - No Way Out 2006
Edge v Undertaker - Wrestlemania 24
Davey Richards v Eddie Edwards - Best in the World 2011
Kurt Angle v Chris Benoit - Royal Rumble 2003
Shawn Michaels v Kurt Angle - Wrestlemania 21
Kurt Angle/Chris Benoit v Rey Mysterio/Edge - No Mercy 2002
Cactus Jack v Triple H - Royal Rumble 2000
Austin Aries Vs Nigel McGuinness - ROH Rising Above 2007
Kurt Angle v Desmond Wolfe - TNA Final Resolution 2009
Bryan Danielson/Tyler Black v American Wolves - Tag Team Classic
Bryan Danielson v Paul London - The Epic Encounter 2003
Kevin Steen/El Generico v The Briscoes
Blood Generation v Do Fixer - ROH Supercard of Honor 2006
KENTA & Taiji Ishimori v Kota Ibushi & Naomichi Marufuji - NOAH Summer Navigation 2007


----------



## Tanner1495

SteveTheSmark said:


> My list would be the following:
> 
> Bryan Danielson v Takeshi Morishima - Manhattan Mayhem 3
> Kurt Angle v Undertaker - No Way Out 2006
> Edge v Undertaker - Wrestlemania 24
> Davey Richards v Eddie Edwards - Best in the World 2011
> Kurt Angle v Chris Benoit - Royal Rumble 2003
> Shawn Michaels v Kurt Angle - Wrestlemania 21
> Kurt Angle/Chris Benoit v Rey Mysterio/Edge - No Mercy 2002
> Cactus Jack v Triple H - Royal Rumble 2000
> Austin Aries Vs Nigel McGuinness - ROH Rising Above 2007
> Kurt Angle v Desmond Wolfe - TNA Final Resolution 2009
> Bryan Danielson/Tyler Black v American Wolves - Tag Team Classic
> Bryan Danielson v Paul London - The Epic Encounter 2003
> Kevin Steen/El Generico v The Briscoes
> Blood Generation v Do Fixer - ROH Supercard of Honor 2006
> KENTA & Taiji Ishimori v Kota Ibushi & Naomichi Marufuji - NOAH Summer Navigation 2007


Which Steenerico/Briscoes match are you referring to?


----------



## mk92071

Has anybody put El Generico vs. Kevin Steen from Final Battle at *****? I've never given the big 5 and its the closest anything has gotten of what I've seen. High as fuck ****3/4 imo.


----------



## Bubz

***** was my initial rating when I watched it live on ippv, on a rewatch though it wasn't as great. Still a great match though, ****1/2 for me. Loved the storytelling and the crazy spots mixed well together. Their PWG BOLA 2011 and Steen Wolf matches are better though. ****3/4 and ***** respectively.


----------



## Punkhead

Atlantis vs Villano III mask vs mask match was great.


----------



## bigbuxxx

mk92071 said:


> Has anybody put El Generico vs. Kevin Steen from Final Battle at *****? I've never given the big 5 and its the closest anything has gotten of what I've seen. High as fuck ****3/4 imo.


gotta be at least 20 people itt that gave that 5*. love the match but i find it hard to give that 5* because of the ending. they keep upping the ante with finisher after finisher and then it just ends with a chair to the head? i get that it's part of the story telling from when the feud started but it's just a bad ending.


----------



## mk92071

bigbuxxx said:


> gotta be at least 20 people itt that gave that 5*. love the match but i find it hard to give that 5* because of the ending. they keep upping the ante with finisher after finisher and then it just ends with a chair to the head? i get that it's part of the story telling from when the feud started but it's just a bad ending.


On my first watch I thought it was lame as fuck but the second time I watched it I really got more emotionally invested into the match because I knew more about their feud. I got chills when Generico was going to end Steen the same way their feud began.


----------



## Flux

Dusty Rhodes vs. Barry Windham at The Great American Bash 1988.
Absolutely excellent, Dusty is one of the most underrated wrestlers in history, by far.


----------



## Violent By Design

I wish there were more Dusty Rhode matches on youtube. I've never seen any of his matches with Flair.


----------



## bigbuxxx

there's at least one on dailymotion. their '84 Starrcade match is on a certain torrent site as well.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Generico and Ricochet vs. Kevin Steen and Tozawa - ****3/4

ahhh what a match


----------



## Yeah1993

The Dusty/Flair cage match from one of the GABs in 1986 is phenomenal and on youtube.


----------



## MF83

Starting to keep a list of five star matches in a thread elsewhere. Here's the first one!


Matt said:


> *Andre the Giant vs. Stan Hansen (NJPW; 1981-09-23)*
> 
> This is easily one of the smartest pro wrestling matches that I’ve ever experienced in my time as a fan of pro wrestling. Absolutely stellar work from both men through and through and my first official five star match. Why?
> 
> 
> The workrate: Beyond moves and holds, something is happening during nearly every moment of this match. Andre working the lariat arm like William Regal - It’s a thing of beauty and comes into play multiple times. Hansen provides his infamous brawl barrage and the chemistry obviously meshes well.
> The “spot dodge” factor: Each man dodges multiple times and since dodge spots are awesome normally, added into a match as this is a fat bonus. The dodge spots are big factors surrounding both of the match’s big spots as well.
> The bodyslam psychology: It begins as seemingly just another day for Andre when he rather easily counters Hansen’s first attempt to slam him, by grabbing the injured arm. Looking to put away his foe, Andre starts throwing suplexes and strikes. Hansen’s “resthold comeback” is full of struggle and when he dodges that boot and toe kick’s Andre, the tension in the air is at maximum. He nails the slam, but further than that, the aftersell of both men is priceless. Hansen’s display of successful exhaustion and new found confidence not only in his game, but knowing that Andre has a weakness (back), is executed perfectly. Andre is human after all! Beyond that, Andre temporarily loses that air of invincibility, visibly loses confidence, and shows lack of physical dominance for the first time in New Japan.
> Andre’s camel clutch escape and Hansen’s armdrag: <3
> The midway countout with regards to Gordi’s point about all involved performing to full potential: Mr. Takahashi and the New Japan representative play their roles perfectly during the countout/restart break. Mr. Takahashi making things suspenseful in his announcement and the suit’s “acting” is well done. Skaaland is perfect as the wise, heel manager here. I absolutely love how Hansen and Andre both cut it out the second they realize what has happened and begin the petition for a restart. It shows they want the win rather than just enjoy the violence a match like this brings. Heel Andre runs to his Skaaland for advice and to help persuade the officials while Hansen does his job as face to rile the crowd support into a frenzy.
> The face and heel performances: Hansen working as a babyface gaijin in 1981 is remarkably energetic and varied. I’m tempted to say that this face performance is up there with some of Terry Funk’s best because while less dramatic reaching high points, it is continues from beginning to end and less blatant. He’s vibrant at all the right times and completely loveable in his quest for nothing more than to beat the giant. Andre gives us a verbal dialogue to go along with his body language and his special brand of heel tactics. A+ in selling, timing, and expression (body and facials) for both men.
> The finish: Hansen finally hits the Western lariat and that moment is rightfully a highlight reel regular. True to the equality theme, they sell for equal amounts of time. Hansen had to use his injured arm to try to finish off Andre and in doing so worsened the injury. Andre was knocked out of the ring, but as just previously stated, the arm wasn’t fully functional so though he got taken out temporarily, he was vertical at the same time that Hansen was. His confidence had taken another hit though. Since he couldn’t beat Hansen his own way, he grabs his own elbow pad to try and Hansen with his own medicine. That would not happen as Mr. Takahashi, irritating Andre by trying to check for weapons inside the pad, eats Western (Europe) Lariat and the match ends then and there. Both men, still willing and able, continue fighting each other and then the ring boys, until Hansen is forced out of the ring. The symbolism with both men standing tall at the end, with Andre in the ring and Hansen whipping a chair, is the sugar on top for the theme of “irresistible force meeting the immovable object”. In the end, the force remains active and the object remains unmoved.
> 
> ★★★★★ or *91%*


----------



## Yeah1993

Yeah that match is ridiculous. Might be my favourite wrestling match of all time.


----------



## smitlick

AJPW - 31/8/93
Steve Williams vs Kenta Kobashi
*****

Its really weird watching Kobashi look so physically good after watching him more recently.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

Villano III vs. Atlantis (Mask vs. Mask)- CMLL
March 17, 2000

Don't think I ever saw this match before and I know it was one of WON's Matches of the Year so I decided to check it out. I must say wow, this was one emotionally draining match. The mat work was excellent and how each guy was trying to one up each other was a thing of beauty. The sequences were crisp and Atlantis being ripped open was crazy; Villano III working over Atlantis like nobody's business, the drama they built towards the finish was spectacular and the crowd bought into every little thing, some were even crying! Man CMLL matches don't build drama like that anymore. Excellent stuff from 2 huge stars.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

That is indeed one of the best matches this decade, an incredibly epic and emotionally draining finishing stretch which never borders on overkill because of the simplistic pins being attempted by both. The brawling and selling of the blood is exceptional by both men and of course the crowd are molten hot for everything.

If you were wowed by the matwork though, check out Atlantis/Blue Panther 1991 on Youtube. I'd say its definitely the go to match for great Lucha matwork.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

Segunda Caida said:


> That is indeed one of the best matches this decade, an incredibly epic and emotionally draining finishing stretch which never borders on overkill because of the simplistic pins being attempted by both. The brawling and selling of the blood is exceptional by both men and of course the crowd are molten hot for everything.
> 
> If you were wowed by the matwork though, check out Atlantis/Blue Panther 1991 on Youtube. I'd say its definitely the go to match for great Lucha matwork.


The one for the NWA Welterweight Title right? Trust me I know all too well how great that match is, I've seen damn near every major Blue Panther match there is :lol. The execution, reversals and overall flow in that match was awesome and how they were able to build drama in between only made it better. I especially loved how after each fall, they changed the dynamics of the storytelling within the way they carried the match. The crowd bought into every fall, reversal and just an excellent showcase for both luchadores.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Yup that would be the match, feels as close as pro wrestling gets to being a legitimate sport. Both men just convey this unrivalled aura in each exchange and subsequently it manages to combine breath-taking and sublime matwork and add a gritty and struggle in each exchange, where the counters feel earned and hard fought for, instead of being thrown out or looking terribly choreographed.


----------



## Bubz

*Kobashi vs Hansen (AJPW 29/7/93)*
Godly match. Amazing story and performances. The best match these two had by quite a margin imo. One of my favourite matches ever. *******


----------



## antoniomare007

For Hansen, it's arguable. He's had tremendous performances like against Andre and Kawada but the Kobashi match might be his finest moment.

Kobashi though. I still put 1/20/97 above any other singles match he's had.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I'd go Hansen vs Kawada 2/28/93 >>>>>>>> Kobashi/Hansen. 

I'd also rank the Andre match ahead of it, but that's through personal preference and admiration for one of the most smartly worked and built matches I've seen. I certainly wouldn't argue if people got more caught up in the stiffness and physicality of Hansen/Kobashi and immensly preferred it.

Hansen could also have the 8/31/83 tag as a contender for the best match he's been involved in, though immense credit also has to go to one TERRY FUNK for that match being as amazing as it is. FOREVER~


----------



## Bubz

Yeah the 1/20/97 Misawa match is just incredible. Maybe my favourite singles match ever to be honest, even more than Misawa/Kawada 94. Actually haven't watched that in ages, might give it a watch tonight.

Segunda is that the Funks vs Hansen & Brody you're on about? Not good with remembering dates. And yeah Kawada/Hansen 93 is amazing as well, prefer the Kobashi match though.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Yup that would be the one, Funk sells like an absolute god, Hansen and Brody are supreme dicks throughout, Hansen and Funk brawl like its HANSEN AND FUNK BRAWLING from the opening bell and then the post match promo is just awe inspiring to hear the crowd reaction as well as Funk's charisma and tone of voice.


----------



## Bubz

Yeah that's a bloody amazing match. Maybe my second favourite tag match behind the 6/9/95 match. Hansen and Brody dominating the whole thing was so much fun to watch, especially like you say with Funk's selling.


----------



## antoniomare007

I still prefer the 77' Funks vs Sheik/Abby match over the 83' retirement. Terry's performance is







status 



Segunda Caida said:


> I'd go Hansen vs Kawada 2/28/93 >>>>>>>> Kobashi/Hansen.
> 
> I'd also rank the Andre match ahead of it, but that's through personal preference and admiration for one of the most smartly worked and built matches I've seen. I certainly wouldn't argue if people got more caught up in the stiffness and physicality of Hansen/Kobashi and immensly preferred it.
> 
> Hansen could also have the 8/31/83 tag as a contender for the best match he's been involved in, though immense credit also has to go to one TERRY FUNK for that match being as amazing as it is. FOREVER~


Oh, if we are including tags there's no way that 29/7/93 is their best match.


ps: welcome back


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I haven't seen that in tag in what feels like a good couple of years, I'll hopefully give it a watch tomorrow. Job research can wait when its TERRY FUCKING FUNK.

(Yes I have a problem, though its not as bad as my Lawler problem.)

Cheers btw.


----------



## Violent By Design

Still not a fan of Stan Hansen vs Kenta Kobashi, just don't see what's so great bout the psychology or story. Not to mention the stiff shots look dumb to me.

I did like Stan Hansen vs Andre the Giant, I gave it a rewatch yesterday and after the restart it gets so good. You could tell that at that time, something surreal was happening in front of that crowd.

Been checking out Dusty Rhodes lately, I've always loved his style. 80s wrestling is so damn good.


----------



## MF83

Man, I don't know I like which most between the '77 and two '79 tags between the Funks and Abby/Sheik. And then there's the '78 tag which has the hulk ups of all hulkups. The summer '79 is mother fucking incredible and the '79 RWTL Final is an absolutely perfect conclusion to the feud IMO, and maybe my favourite of the three. Give the feud a watch, I've got most of it (minus the '77 tag but including singles matches) on my youtube channel which is in my sig.

Edit: 
Tag League: 1977.12.15-WOTC-The Funks vs. Abdullah The Butcher & The Sheik [WORLD OPEN TAG CHAMPIONSHIP] - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brB1KPpohm8

Terry Funk vs. Abdullah the Butcher, Dory Funk Jr. vs. The Sheik (AJPW 12/1/1978) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KovmJdq-vt0&feature=plcp
Tag League: The Funks vs. Abdullah the Butcher & The Sheik (AJPW; 12/9/1978) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlAWBhAMjs4&feature=plcp
2/3 Falls: The Funks vs. Abdullah the Butcher & The Sheik (AJPW; 7/15/1979) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMuLWZ5EZDs&feature=plcp
Terry Funk vs. Abdullah The Butcher (AJPW; 7/18/1979) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XN_VdjfSXJY&feature=plcp

Edit #2 Quick and fun match complete with a brawl featuring a couple Texans afterwards. - Abdullah the Butcher & The Sheik Vs Wahoo McDaniel & Frank Hill (Nov. 30, 1979) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjXWP6a1dIo

RWTL Final: The Funks vs. Abdullah The Butcher & The Sheik (AJPW; 12/13/1979) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=061dhkaAUjk&feature=plcp


----------



## Bubz

@ Violent By Design

Kobashi taking it straight to Hansen from the bell to try and stop him ASAP was awesome, Kobashi dominating almost the entire match was such a change from their previous matches and made it seem like Kobashi really had Hansen's number this time especially when Hansen tried comebacks but couldn't get anything going because Kobashi would come out on top every time. Hansen's selling and his comeback spots were worked to perfection and even though Kobashi dominated, he still seemed like the underdog just trying to do anything to put Hansen away. The sense of desperation from Kobashi was so awesome, and the final stretch was amazing with Kobashi pulling everything out but making small mistakes that allowed Hansen to get the win. Crowd was balls awesome too.


----------



## Yeah1993

Not gonna lie, first watch of Kobashi/Hansen last year I thought it was like a ***3/4 match. I mean that's SOMETHING, but I didn't think it really beat what Hansen was doing in even 1992 with the AJ guys. Honestly I try to forget I ever watched it because it feels like one of those matches I just missed "it" with. Like how I missed "it" with Austin/Angle and got "it" on a second watch. I'd be surprised if I thought it was better than Kawada/Hansen, though. That's probably my favourite All Japan singles match from it's inception in 72 up to that point in 93.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Segunda Caida said:


> I'd go Hansen vs Kawada 2/28/93 >>>>>>>> Kobashi/Hansen.


not enough >'s.


----------



## Bubz

Guess I'm alone in liking Kobashi/Hansen that much then lol. I love Hansen/Kawada too but there was just something in the Kobashi match that clicked more with me. Absolutely loved it, one of my favourite AJ matches. I would put their other singles matches a lot lower though.



Yeah1993 said:


> Not gonna lie, first watch of Kobashi/Hansen last year I thought it was like a ***3/4 match. I mean that's SOMETHING, but I didn't think it really beat what Hansen was doing in even 1992 with the AJ guys. Honestly I try to forget I ever watched it because it feels like one of those matches I just missed "it" with. *Like how I missed "it" with Austin/Angle and got "it" on a second watch.* I'd be surprised if I thought it was better than Kawada/Hansen, though. That's probably my favourite All Japan singles match from it's inception in 72 up to that point in 93.


The Summerslam match? Because I didn't think it was that amazing when I watched it last year. Thought it was great but not a 5* classic, maybe I should watch it again then.


----------



## Bruce L

BUBZ said:


> Guess I'm alone in liking Kobashi/Hansen that much then lol. I love Hansen/Kawada too but there was just something in the Kobashi match that clicked more with me. Absolutely loved it, one of my favourite AJ matches. I would put their other singles matches a lot lower though.


You're not alone. It's probably my favorite '90s AJ match that doesn't involve Misawa.

For some reason, Hansen/Kawada has never excited me in any way. Not a pairing I'd ever expect to feel that way about.


----------



## Chismo

Yeah, Kobashi/Hansen > Kawada/Hansen. Slightly, but better.


----------



## Yeah1993

BUBZ said:


> The Summerslam match? Because I didn't think it was that amazing when I watched it last year. Thought it was great but not a 5* classic, maybe I should watch it again then.


Yeah, first watched it in late 2009 and was all "well this is GOOD, but...eh." I think I've seen it three or four times since then, and honestly I've never seen it as a match better than four stars.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

I'm in a sort of funny mood with star ratings these days, I'm more content to just elaborate my thoughts and let that basically sum up my thoughts (if people prefer to just have a rating I'll always provide one, but for now I think a general review can tell my thoughts on the match better than just a simple star rating), but I'd definitely call the Funks v Abdullah/Sheik 2/3 Falls tag as well as '79 RWTL Final as 'perfection'. Not necessarily ***** as I said due to my altering stance on star ratings, but I'm not convinced they could have done a thing better in both those matches than what was put into them. And its not like the first two matches in the series were far and away lesser matches, but those two in particular were just astonishing.


EDIT: As for Austin/Angle, I think its the best match the company put on in 2001, not sure if I'd call it the #1 match in company history but then again I'd have to rewatch the absolute best stuff to try and get a clearer picture. On last watch (for the 00-09 MOTD poll) I came out of it probably the same as I did before, Austin's heel performance was still as captivating and complex as I remembered, Angle was again a fiery and resilient babyface and I thought they timed the Stunners well within the context of the match. They definitely served a purpose in accentuating Austin's psychotic breakdown which led to the referee abuse, and furthered the story going in that Angle had him frightened. Finish was still as gloriously dickish as I recalled, Nick Patrick was really underrated in that elitist prick heel role: post match Ankle Lock might be the most I've ever enjoyed the move.


----------



## Clique

Austin/Angle is a dramatically epic WWF Title match. Angle and Austin gave two of the strongest babyface and heel performances I've seen in one match. It would probably be 5 stars for me if Angle had made Austin tap. Austin submitting to the Ankle lock would just would have capped it off perfectly for me. However, the DQ finish they had was great too and how it was played made sense.


----------



## Yeah1993

Segunda Caida said:


> EDIT: As for Austin/Angle, I think its the best match the company put on in 2001, not sure if I'd call it the #1 match in company history but then again I'd have to rewatch the absolute best stuff to try and get a clearer picture. On last watch (for the 00-09 MOTD poll) I came out of it probably the same as I did before, Austin's heel performance was still as captivating and complex as I remembered, Angle was again a fiery and resilient babyface and I thought they timed the Stunners well within the context of the match. They definitely served a purpose in accentuating Austin's psychotic breakdown which led to the referee abuse, and furthered the story going in that Angle had him frightened. Finish was still as gloriously dickish as I recalled, Nick Patrick was really underrated in that elitist prick heel role: post match Ankle Lock might be the most I've ever enjoyed the move.



I pretty much agree with all of that (Austin/Angle), but I just get the feeling 90% of other people are seeing a transcendental great match where I'm just seeing a great one. And it's not like these are people with different tastes to me, either. I watched the Angle/Michaels PPV matches recently and thought neither was even a three star match, but the people who like that are often people who like A LOT of stuff I don't. Austin/Angle gets love from almost everyone no matter what they're into. Evil Heel Who Works for an Evil Group Murdering and Cheating a Hero Babyface is pretty much my favourite wrestling formula so I can only think I'm the one missing something.

I should just shut the FUCK up and watch the match today.


----------



## Bubz

I'm agreeing with Yeah1993 here, I thought Austin/Angle was great, and I agree with everything Segunda said about it, but there was just something missing for me to put it at that ***** level like most people do. I've seen it once like a year ago though so like I said, should probably watch it at some point this week.

Last I watched it, I actualy enjoyed Austin/Benoit from RAW more. My favourite tv match WWF/E have ever done. Even more so than the SD match and the RAW tag with Hunter and Jericho.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Clique said:


> Austin/Angle is a dramatically epic WWF Title match. Angle and Austin gave two of the strongest babyface and heel performances I've seen in one match. It would probably be 5 stars for me if Angle had made Austin tap. Austin submitting to the Ankle lock would just would have capped it off perfectly for me. However, the DQ finish they had was great too and how it was played made sense.


i thought the finish made it better. also having austin tap gets rid of the dramatic hometown win the next month for Kurt.



> Last I watched it, I actualy enjoyed Austin/Benoit from RAW more. My favourite tv match WWF/E have ever done. Even more so than the SD match and the RAW tag with Hunter and Jericho.


if we're talking favorites and not best, my favorite has gotta be bret vs austin in a streetfight where austin just fucks him up with a chair and bret breaks his ankle or foot by jumping off the ropes. best tv match i think would be the tag you mentioned and tlc 3.


----------



## Chismo

Angle/Austin is a five star match for me, it was magnificent. And that's how you do a screwy finish.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Just to clarify, I wouldn't call it a ***** match, its weird in that again I doubt they could have done anything better in that match, so in some ways its 'perfect', but I think at this point there has to be some 'feeling' within me when watching a match that would get me to give it the full 5. Its an incredible match without doubt, but its just lacking that intangible factor that certain matches have that I can't call less than *****.

As for why people may not see it as great as others, well a lot of it will just come down to the performances. Massive Austin fans will probably be so caught up in the character work and storytelling through his facial expressions and actions that the match becomes 'amazing', that's definitely to me the primary reason why I adore it so much, so if you think he was great but aren't caught up completely and calling it an all time great performance then I can see why it becomes a great match, but not a GREAT match. 

That being said I don't think you necessarily have to keep watching it in order to eventually become as big a fan of it as others (not incinuating BUBZ or someone would do that), part of what makes discussion great is the varying opinions on matches. For example Yeah1993 had me watch Santo/Hijo Del Perro 2004 in CMLL and the praise he was giving it I was expecting a whole new Santo match to fall in love with....but aside from a couple of sequences and moments I was honestly left quite flat. How much of that is down to the actual match, or the hindsight of having seen many bloody Santo brawls since I discovered him and the match just not replicating those matches is hard to say, but I'd definitely say it wasn't the match I was expecting/hoping, which is a tad surprising since its not often me and Yeah1993 have largely dis-similar thoughts on a match (aside from HBK/Taker WM 26 ya bastard ), but hey its always bound to happen eventually.


----------



## Yeah1993

I'm a MASSIVE Austin fan. And I promise my thoughts on this match have nothing to do with my thoughts on Angle. 

Santo/Perro- The link I gave; I'm pretty it isn't the full match. I can see two parts with the first going 6 minutes and the second going 9. The whole match on my DVD is like 27 minutes. My bad. I'll just rip this. I've already ripped Santo/Cerebro x2, Navarro/Engendro and Navarro/Dandy and will start uploading to iFile in a couple of days. I think my other link died because I accidentally had like three matches/90 minutes in the one file.

And HBK/Taker is good. But ONLY good.  But come to think of it that could fall under the I Didn't Get It category too. Only watched it once.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

:mark: I was going to say it did seem short, that would be awesome since it kicked into another gear near the end of the second link (Santo dive and them fighting in the seats).

I think I love HBK/Taker mainly for the callback spots, Taker's selling, the story playing off of Flair/Michaels and the way they seemed to work towards a more character/story driven match whereas the WM 25 match was more of a sprint/clash of titans deal. I can see why some might find it too melodramatic/a forced epic, but I think they nailed the perfect balance between old school work and modern WWE DRAMA/STORYTELLING in a much better way than either Taker/HHH match which just felt too cheesy and forced. Its not necessarily a match I'm shocked is divisive, but I do think there's a lot to appreciate about it.


----------



## Yeah1993

The dive is a count-out finish, but it's an awesome count-out finish since they just HATE each other the whole match and just fuck each other up. I'd say the whole thing is practically in that I Fucking Loathe You gear. I remember a suplex into the crowd where they almost kicked a dude in the head (was it that match? IDK). So yeah, I think the finish is in that link, but there's a chunk of the match missing.

WM26- I did think Taker was great in it.


----------



## Bruce L

Segunda Caida said:


> Just to clarify, I wouldn't call it a ***** match, its weird in that again I doubt they could have done anything better in that match, so in some ways its 'perfect', but I think at this point there has to be some 'feeling' within me when watching a match that would get me to give it the full 5. Its an incredible match without doubt, but its just lacking that intangible factor that certain matches have that I can't call less than *****.


I agree with this 100% -- not just in terms of Austin/Angle, but in general. There are a lot of matches that don't quite get a ***** rating from me whose only real flaw is that they just don't "feel" like ***** matches.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Yeah1993 said:


> The dive is a count-out finish, but it's an awesome count-out finish since they just HATE each other the whole match and just fuck each other up. I'd say the whole thing is practically in that I Fucking Loathe You gear. I remember a suplex into the crowd where they almost kicked a dude in the head (was it that match? IDK). So yeah, I think the finish is in that link, but there's a chunk of the match missing.
> 
> WM26- I did think Taker was great in it.


That would make sense then, I never actually noticed any obvious break between the two links, but here's hoping the missing 10-12 mins make me appreciate the match more. I did get a strong sense of hate between both men, but I think part of my apathy towards the match stemmed from El Hijo Perro, I dunno the guy just didn't come across as a true rudo: he didn't have those awesome brawling tendencies to me that you expect out of a Lucha brawl. Maybe its unfair to expect MS-1/Sangre Chicana levels of violence out of him, but he just seemed to be more like a US guy in a Lucha environment rather than a true Lucha brawler, too many stomps and tame looking punches for my liking. I did find Santo super though, but whilst watching the match it felt more like him trying to hopelessly recreate his 80s/90s epics with a more limited/less talented opponent.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Segunda Caida said:


> EDIT: As for Austin/Angle, I think its the best match the company put on in 2001, *not sure if I'd call it the #1 match in company history* but then again I'd have to rewatch the absolute best stuff to try and get a clearer picture. On last watch (for the 00-09 MOTD poll) I came out of it probably the same as I did before, Austin's heel performance was still as captivating and complex as I remembered, Angle was again a fiery and resilient babyface and I thought they timed the Stunners well within the context of the match. They definitely served a purpose in accentuating Austin's psychotic breakdown which led to the referee abuse, and furthered the story going in that Angle had him frightened. Finish was still as gloriously dickish as I recalled, Nick Patrick was really underrated in that elitist prick heel role: post match Ankle Lock might be the most I've ever enjoyed the move.


Raise voice again and I will hack tongue from fucking mouth.

(FWIW I wouldn't say it's "*****" either)


----------



## Yeah1993

You seen Santo/Perro, Andy?


----------



## Violent By Design

yeah1993, if you took the time to rip some of the matches, you might as well spread the wealth . I'd like a link to some of those matches if ya don't mind!


----------



## Yeah1993

No problem. I have people coming over today, but I have most of the matches on my laptop already and just need to upload them to iFile which I'll try to get done within the next 30 hours.

I've considered putting them up on YT or DM, but fuck....that tests my patience.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Yeah1993 said:


> You seen Santo/Perro, Andy?


Not yet. I'mma watch it soon, though.


----------



## erockstar_

Souled Out with Syxx vs Eddie Guerrero in a ladder match. Just watched it, actually and man it was great.


----------



## seabs

erockstar_ said:


> Souled Out with Syxx vs Eddie Guerrero in a ladder match. Just watched it, actually and man it was great.


*Do you have like 1000 ***** matches then?*


----------



## Yeah1993

^Not enough 0s  Man Eddie Guerrero had a pretty phenomenal 1997 and that was probably the worst match I saw from him that whole year.


----------



## Bubz

haha.

Eddie was the nuts though.


----------



## ezuvgu

Ric Flair VS Ricky Steamboat, NWA World Heavyweight Championship, WCW Chi-Town Rumble 1989
Ric Flair VS Ricky Steamboat, NWA World Heavyweight Championship, WCW Clash of the Champions VI
Ric Flair VS Ricky Steamboat, NWA World Heavyweight Championship, WCW WrestleWar 1989
Royal Rumble match, WWF Championship, WWF Royal Rumble 1992
Bret Hart VS Owen Hart, WWF Wrestlemania X
Shawn Michaels VS Razor Ramon, Ladder Match, WWF Intercontinental Championship, WWF Wrestlemania X
Bret Hart VS Owen Hart, Steel Cage match, WWF Championship, WWF SummerSlam 1994 (best no-blood escape-only steel cage match of all time)
Bret Hart VS Shawn Michaels, 60-minute Ironman match, WWF Championship, WWF Wrestlemania XII
Shawn Michaels VS Diesel, WWF Championship, WWF In Your House 7
Bret Hart VS "Stone Cold" Steve Austin, WWF Survivor Series 1996
Bret Hart VS "Stone Cold" Steve Austin, Submission match, WWF Wrestlemania 13
Bret Hart, Jim Neidhart, Owen Hart, British Bulldog, Brian Pillman VS "Stone Cold" Steve Austin, Ken Shamrock, Goldust, Legion of Doom (Aniaml and Hawk), WWF In Your House 16
Shawn Michaels VS Undertaker, Hell in a Cell, WWF Badd Blood 1997
Triple H VS Cactus Jack, Street Fight, Royal Rumble 2000
Triple H VS Cactus Jack, Hell in a Cell, No Way Out 2000
Triple H VS "Stone Cold" Steve Austin, 3 Stages of Hell, No Way Out 2001
Kurt Angle VS Chris Benoit, Wrestlemania X-7
Edge & Christian VS The Hardyz VS The Dudleyz, TLC match, WWF Tag Team Championship, Wrestlemania X-7
The Rock VS "Stone Cold" Steve Austin, WWF Championship, Wrestlemania X-7
Triple H VS Shawn Michaels VS Chris Jericho VS Booker T VS Rob Van Dam VS Kane, Elimination Chamber, World Heavyweight Championship, Survivor Series 2002 (the first and best Chamber match) 
Triple H VS Shawn Michaels, Hell in a Cell, Bad Blood 2004
Edge VS Mick Foley, Hardcore match, Wrestlemania 22
Tetsuya Naito VS Kazuchika Okada, IWGP Championship, NJPW 40th Anniversary Show (3/4/2012)

I still haven't seen most of the North American mainstream PPVs between 2002 and 2010, most of WCW post-1992 and I've only seen a small amount of Japanese wrestling before 2011. I didn't watch WWE TV shows at all from 2007-2009 and I've only watched them occasionally since 2010. Many of the matches on this list are matches I last watched 2 years ago. Some of these matches probably wouldn't stay on my list if I watched them again and I'm sure there are matches that I've seen that I would upgrade to 5-stars if I watched them again. I would have included Punk VS Cena from MITB 2011 after I saw it the first time, but I think I probably overrated it at the time (although I have yet to see it a second time).


----------



## MF83

Is there anyone out there who doesn't think 6/9/95 is a five star match (or of similar description/ranking)? It's my favourite match ever, by far, and I've never seen someone hate on it, like at all, in my time as a wrestling fan.


----------



## DFUSCMAN

MF83 said:


> Is there anyone out there who doesn't think 6/9/95 is a five star match (or of similar description/ranking)? It's my favourite match ever, by far, and I've never seen someone hate on it, like at all, in my time as a wrestling fan.


I don't see how anybody can hate on the match at all. It's the best puro tag match of all time in my opinion. Incredible storytelling, selling, pace, it's pretty perfect for me. And my god the finish is so good. Kobashi's leg selling is an absolute work of art. Kobashi laying over misawa trying to protect him from an incredibly vicious Kawada and Taue is such an incredible moment.


----------



## EdgeHeadBellaFan

Chris Benoit vs. Eddie Guerrero Vengeance 2003
Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H WrestleMania 20
Cactus Jack vs. Randy Orton Hardcore Match Backlash 2004
Kurt Angle vs. Shawn Michaels WrestleMania 21
Batista vs. Triple H Hell In A Cell Vengeance 2005
Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels WrestleMania 25
Undertaker vs. Triple H Hell In A Cell WrestleMania 28


----------



## Bubz

MF83 said:


> Is there anyone out there who doesn't think 6/9/95 is a five star match (or of similar description/ranking)? It's my favourite match ever, by far, and I've never seen someone hate on it, like at all, in my time as a wrestling fan.


If anyone doesn't think it's one of the best matches ever, then they must not have seen it. Probably my favourite match of all time, a masterpiece of a wrestling match.

The 93 tag is bloody amazing as well, but not quite on that level of pure greatness. But the 6/9/95 match is made better by having seen the 93 tag and the way they play off the story of that match with the roles reversed.


----------



## Flux

Chuck Taylor, Joe Ryan and Kenny Omega vs. Davey Richards, Austin Aries and Roderick Strong vs. Nick Jackson, El Generico and Necro Butch - 9 Man Tag Team Match - PWG BOLA 2008

In terms of pure entertainment value, this is one of the greatest matches I have EVER seen. Hilariously funny, through weird circumstances or not.


----------



## WEBSTER-WHYTE

I'm exhausted, so just off the top of my head, I can only recall a few:

*Kenta Kobashi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa* - NOAH (2003)
*CM Punk vs. John Cena* - Money in the Bank (2011)
*CM Punk vs. Samoa Joe* No Time Limit - All Star Extravaganza II (2004)
*Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels* - WrestleMania XXV (2009)
*Bryan Danielson vs. Paul London* 2/3 Falls - Epic Encounter (2003)
*Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho* - WrestleMania XIX (2003)
*Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle* - WrestleMania XXI (2005)
*Brock Lesnar vs. Undertaker* Hell in a Cell - No Mercy (2002)


----------



## MF83

*Jumbo Tsuruta & Tenryu Genichiro vs. Choshu Riki & Yatsu Yoshiaki (AJPW; 1986-01-28)
****** Yep. That 700mph Tenryu lariat. <3 One of Yatsu’s finest performances. Choshu looking vulnerable for the first time in All Japan makes this a treat. He’s Choshu, he’s not an idiot, so he knows to take it easy and play strategy over power for the most part. As such, he picks his spots and makes those spots special. They beat the piss out of Jumbo and his face while Tenryu kills Choshu, entertainingly breaks up tags and is otherwise a treat to watch. His Choshu trolling is remarkable and puts this over the top for me. Tenryu really outclasses Jumbo and even Choshu overall here. What it really comes down to are the seconds': Yatsu performing at such a high consistency throughout (as a babyface, surprisingly) and Tenryu debuting his soon-to-be infamous, grumpy Tenryu self (from what I’ve seen from this set of matches at least), treating everyone to a highlight reel performance. The Choshu rib injury adds whatever amount of electricity that the title match originally forgot about and the finishing stretch is the first to that point in time causing me to foot stomp. So many little added bits of psych that keep this intense and highly entertaining from start to finish. The best part is that it’s really only a setup for the rematch the following week!

★★★★★ & 92%


----------



## smitlick

FluxCapacitor said:


> Chuck Taylor, Joe Ryan and Kenny Omega vs. Davey Richards, Austin Aries and Roderick Strong vs. Nick Jackson, El Generico and Necro Butch - 9 Man Tag Team Match - PWG BOLA 2008
> 
> In terms of pure entertainment value, this is one of the greatest matches I have EVER seen. Hilariously funny, through weird circumstances or not.


Completely agree. Its amazing


----------



## Chismo

*Speed Muscle vs. SHINGO & Dragon Kid (Dragon Gate USA, Open The Freedom Gate)*

Okay, I used to have this match at ****1/2, but after few more re-watches, I give this a full boat. I just can't find anything wrong with this, and I know I might get few laughs for this rating. The key to the match's success were the subplots of Kid/Yoshino and SHINGO/Doi rivarlies. This match exploited the DG tag team style to perfection, and the second half was balls-to-the–walls frenzy, dramatic and exciting. Some awe inspiring sequences and super believable nearfalls. The selling was highly acceptable too. The best match in DGUSA history, and the best modern tag team match, together with GoBashi/K-Office, XXX/AMW, DemBoys/Steenerico and AngleBenoit/EdgeRey ( I feel like I'm missing one).
*Rating: ******


----------



## Bubz

FluxCapacitor said:


> Chuck Taylor, Joe Ryan and Kenny Omega vs. Davey Richards, Austin Aries and Roderick Strong vs. Nick Jackson, El Generico and Necro Butch - 9 Man Tag Team Match - PWG BOLA 2008
> 
> In terms of pure entertainment value, this is one of the greatest matches I have EVER seen. Hilariously funny, through weird circumstances or not.


Haha, need to rewatch this, but I remember it being insanely hilarious.



JoeRulz said:


> *Speed Muscle vs. SHINGO & Dragon Kid (Dragon Gate USA, Open The Freedom Gate)*
> 
> Okay, I used to have this match at ****1/2, but after few more re-watches, I give this a full boat. I just can't find anything wrong with this, and I know I might get few laughs for this rating. The key to the match's success were the subplots of Kid/Yoshino and SHINGO/Doi rivarlies. This match exploited the DG tag team style to perfection, and the second half was balls-to-the–walls frenzy, dramatic and exciting. Some awe inspiring sequences and super believable nearfalls. The selling was highly acceptable too. The best match in DGUSA history, and the best modern tag team match, together with GoBashi/K-Office, XXX/AMW, DemBoys/Steenerico and AngleBenoit/EdgeRey *( I feel like I'm missing one).*
> *Rating: ******


Tag Title Classic?

I need to watch more DG/DG USA btw, think I watched this one a while ago but I'm not sure. Is this from the early days of DG USA?


----------



## Chismo

Bubz said:


> Tag Title Classic?
> 
> I need to watch more DG/DG USA btw, think I watched this one a while ago but I'm not sure. Is this from the early days of DG USA?


I have the Tag Title Classic "only" at ****1/4, lol. 

And it was from Freedom Fight 2009.


----------



## Megan Fox

Probably the best match I've ever seen is the second match of the 1989 Flair vs. Steamboat trilogy.


----------



## AmWolves10

Davey Richards vs Tyler Black

Can't think of anything else right now.


----------



## Megan Fox

AmWolves10 said:


> Davey Richards vs Tyler Black
> 
> Can't think of anything else right now.


I find that VERY difficult to believe. Bret vs. Austin? Flair vs. Steamboat? Misawa vs. Kobashi? Benoit vs. Sasuke? Taker vs. HBK? HHH vs. Cactus? Of ALL the matches in the history of this business, you say THAT is the best you've seen?


----------



## Violent By Design

Megan Fox said:


> I find that VERY difficult to believe. Bret vs. Austin? Flair vs. Steamboat? Misawa vs. Kobashi? Benoit vs. Sasuke? Taker vs. HBK? HHH vs. Cactus? Of ALL the matches in the history of this business, you say THAT is the best you've seen?


calm down bro


----------



## Concrete

He didn't even say that was the best match he had seen. He said that's all he could think of. And that could be the best match he's ever seen.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Bubz said:


> If anyone doesn't think it's one of the best matches ever, then they must not have seen it. Probably my favourite match of all time, a masterpiece of a wrestling match.


I don't think it's as cut and dry as that at this point. Well, it probably never was as cut and dry as that, but with the footage explosion of the last five or six years, where an absolute shit ton of stuff has been unearthed and tonnes of wrestlers/matches have been re-evaluated or discovered, I don't think 6/9/95 is the go-to GOAT anymore. 

I mean, my tastes in wrestling have shifted considerably from when I last watched the match roughly 6 years ago. If I'm in the right sort of mood for watching 90s All Japan then it can be as great as it always was, but shit, some of that stuff is just so...I don't know, HEAVY, I guess. Like, I would much rather sit and watch a match like Tenryu/Hashimoto or Andre/Hansen at this stage where they get in and out and achieve everything they want to in under 20 minutes. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with going over half an hour if you're good enough to fill the time well, and guys like Misawa, Kawada, Kobashi, etc. certainly were, but for all the "storytelling" and "psychology" and whatever other buzzwords you can throw at the big All Japan matches (and I'm not saying they don't fit), I'd rather watch Tenryu punch a guy in the face or Fuerza Guerrera act like a shithead or Fujiwara pull a last ditch armbar out of nowhere. 

Peak All Japan has some great, great shit, but I don't think it's untouchable stylistically. It can grind you down. I've seen almost all of the 90s All Japan I ever wanted to see years ago, and it's honestly a style I have little interest in revisiting. Granted, there's always the "fresher versus better" talking point, and I'm not sure I'd necessarily argue that something like Andre/Hansen or Tenryu/Hashimoto is straight up *better* than 6/9/95 or the 6/3/94, but I know for certain which matches I'd rather watch. Like, if I made a list of my ten favourite matches ("favourite" being much easier than "best," which is honestly something I drink way too fucking much to be able to coherently and properly think about), I don't think I'd have more than one match from 90s All Japan on it. And even then it'd be Hansen/Kawada, which is hardly similar to 6/9/95 stylistically (ie it's all about them beating the everloving shit out of each other rather than the layered storytelling and psychology and callbacks and such).

FWIW I still think guys like Kawada and Misawa and the others responsible for the quality of those All Japan matches are great pro-wrestlers. I think Kawada and Misawa are all-time top 20 guys. I think Stan Hansen is the best wrestler in history (although I don't really think of him in the same way I think of a Misawa or Kawada, or even a Steve Williams, given the way Hansen wrestled). I think Masa Fuchi is a fucking amazing wrestler and had as much to do with a ton of the early 90s stuff being great as Jumbo or anybody else did. 

I don't dislike 90s All Japan. I just don't think it's untouchable as a style and that something like 6/9/95 is untouchable as a match.


----------



## Violent By Design

Andy3000 said:


> I don't think it's as cut and dry as that at this point. Well, it probably never was as cut and dry as that, but with the footage explosion of the last five or six years, where an absolute shit ton of stuff has been unearthed and tonnes of wrestlers/matches have been re-evaluated or discovered, I don't think 6/9/95 is the go-to GOAT anymore.
> 
> I mean, my tastes in wrestling have shifted considerably from when I last watched the match roughly 6 years ago. If I'm in the right sort of mood for watching 90s All Japan then it can be as great as it always was, but shit, some of that stuff is just so...I don't know, HEAVY, I guess. Like, I would much rather sit and watch a match like Tenryu/Hashimoto or Andre/Hansen at this stage where they get in and out and achieve everything they want to in under 20 minutes. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with going over half an hour if you're good enough to fill the time well, and guys like Misawa, Kawada, Kobashi, etc. certainly were, but for all the "storytelling" and "psychology" and whatever other buzzwords you can throw at the big All Japan matches (and I'm not saying they don't fit), I'd rather watch Tenryu punch a guy in the face or Fuerza Guerrera act like a shithead or Fujiwara pull a last ditch armbar out of nowhere.
> 
> Peak All Japan has some great, great shit, but I don't think it's untouchable stylistically. It can grind you down. I've seen almost all of the 90s All Japan I ever wanted to see years ago, and it's honestly a style I have little interest in revisiting. Granted, there's always the "fresher versus better" talking point, and I'm not sure I'd necessarily argue that something like Andre/Hansen or Tenryu/Hashimoto is straight up *better* than 6/9/95 or the 6/3/94, but I know for certain which matches I'd rather watch. Like, if I made a list of my ten favourite matches ("favourite" being much easier than "best," which is honestly something I drink way too fucking much to be able to coherently and properly think about), I don't think I'd have more than one match from 90s All Japan on it. And even then it'd be Hansen/Kawada, which is hardly similar to 6/9/95 stylistically (ie it's all about them beating the everloving shit out of each other rather than the layered storytelling and psychology and callbacks and such).
> 
> FWIW I still think guys like Kawada and Misawa and the others responsible for the quality of those All Japan matches are great pro-wrestlers. I think Kawada and Misawa are all-time top 20 guys. I think Stan Hansen is the best wrestler in history (although I don't really think of him in the same way I think of a Misawa or Kawada, or even a Steve Williams, given the way Hansen wrestled). I think Masa Fuchi is a fucking amazing wrestler and had as much to do with a ton of the early 90s stuff being great as Jumbo or anybody else did.
> 
> I don't dislike 90s All Japan. I just don't think it's untouchable as a style and that something like 6/9/95 is untouchable as a match.




Not that I agree or disagree, but what does this post have to do with the statement you quoted


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Bubz said that if someone doesn't think 6/9/95 is one of the best matches ever (and by extension of MF83's post, a five star match) then they must not have seen it. 

I got long-winded, but my general point was that I don't think that statement's all that fair/accurate, and that with the amount of footage that's been unearthed over the last number of years, 90s All Japan isn't really the go-to as the absolute pinnacle of wrestling like it used to be. 

I'm prone to rambling like a spastic a lot of the time, but I don't really see how that was difficult to grasp.


----------



## Bubz

Yeah, maybe that was a bit of a silly statement I made tbh. It's still _probably_ my favourite match ever (not even sure about that anymore, There's a couple Liger matches that might take that cake) but I completely get what you're saying about preferring something where they can get in and out and still achieve greatness in 20 minutes or under, and I agree with that for the most part. Those are the types of matches I've been more into recently, haven't actually watched any 90's AJPW for quite a while.


----------



## Megan Fox

enlightenedone9 said:


> He didn't even say that was the best match he had seen. He said that's all he could think of. And that could be the best match he's ever seen.


Then he's seen very little of what the sport has to offer.


----------



## Bruce L

The only reasonable knock I can see on 6/9/95 — or 6/3/94, or 12/6/96, or any of the best All Japan matches from the '90s — is that it's not necessarily the most appropriate match to watch at any time, or in any given situation. If you're looking to just sit back and unwind after a shitty day at work, or if you have a few minutes to kill and figure you'll do it by watching wrestling, then a 40-minute epic with six years of layered storytelling built into it probably isn't what you're looking for.

But when I want to actually sit down and invest some honest-to-god time and brain power into really _watching_ wrestling, those are the matches I go for. Andy3000 is right to describe them as "heavy." I once heard somebody else describe 6/9/95 as "everything I love or have ever loved about professional wrestling," and that's certainly what it is for me. But I don't have the energy for that all the time, and I can't imagine anybody else does either. Sometimes "everything I love or have ever loved about professional wrestling" requires more mental and emotional energy than I have to give at that moment, and I'm more than happy to settle for "a bunch of things I like about professional wrestling." 

All Japan matches from the '90s are heavy, in the sense that a gourmet three-course meal is heavy, and as such, it's not going to be what you're always in the mood for. It's probably not even going to be what you're _usually_ in the mood for. But I can't imagine the times when you do have it not being the most fully satisfying experiences you have as a fan of professional wrestling (they absolutely are for me), and to me, that's what makes them the best.


----------



## Yeah1993

I don't think "rather watch" should be used if you're talking about flat out "best" of anything. Andre/Hansen is one of my five favourite matches ever and I'd probably rather watch it than any AJ 90s match, but that's not at all saying it was as good as over a dozen matches from AJ. I'd rather watch Rey Mysterio v Jamie Noble to any John Cena match ever. I'd rather watch TAKA Michinoku to Genichiro Tenryu. I'd rather watch Dustin Rhodes to Jerry Lawler. ETCETERA. 

Also the heavy storytelling stuff for All Japan......IDK. I think any fan can watch any AJ match at any point point and enjoy it. You may need to watch/know about all the back-shit to fully appreciate what they're doing, but the first time I 6/9/95 was in 2008 with no knowledge to anything and I still thought it was a classic match. I watched Jumbo/Taue v Gordy/Williams recently and enjoyed it. If someone tells me I missed part of the "story" about it or whatever, I'm not going back and re-watching it just to catch that stuff. I watched, I enjoyed, SO THERE.


----------



## ranveer

All of them are amazing


----------



## bigbuxxx

Seabs said:


> *Had a list about a year back but it hasn't been updated since then so there's probably a match or two missing. Only blank spots are Joshi and Lucha.
> 
> Austin vs Trips - 3SOH - NWO 01
> HBK vs Trips - SSlam 02
> HBK vs Ramon - Ladder Match - WM 10
> Bret vs Owen - WM 10
> HBK vs Benoit vs Trips - WM 20
> Austin vs Bret - WM 13
> HBK vs Taker - HIAC - Bad Blood 97
> TLC I - Summerslam 2000
> 
> Flair vs Steamboat - WWar 89
> Flair vs Steamboat - Chi-Town 89
> 
> Joe vs AJ vs Daniels - Unbreakable 05
> XXX vs AMW - SSOS - Turning Point 04
> 
> Hennig vs Bockwinkel - AWA 85
> 
> Kobashi vs Sasaki - NOAH 05
> Kobashi/Go vs Sasaki/Nakajima - NOAH 05
> Kobashi vs Misawa - NOAH 03
> KENTA/Ishimori vs Marafuji/Ibushi - NOAH 07
> 
> Joe vs Punk II - ROH 04
> Danielson vs Strong - Supercard Of Honor
> Nigel vs Danielson - Driven
> Wolves vs Danielson/Black - Tag Title Classic
> 
> Jumbo/Misawa I
> Jumbo/Misawa II
> Can-ams vs Kobashi/Kikuchi - 25/05/1992
> Misawa/Kobashi vs Kawada/Taue - 24/01/1995
> Misawa/Kobashi vs Kawada/Taue - 9/6/1995
> Misawa vs Kobashi - 20/01/1997
> 
> My *****3/4 list would be much cooler with stuff like Murdoch/Windham, Duggan/DiBiase, Lawler/Dundee, Lawler/Idol, Liger/Sano, Kanemoto/Samuarai and Santo/Casas/Dandy amongst others.*


i would be interested in seeing ths "*****3/4" list. even if it's ****3/4 i'd still be interested. went through this whole thread looking for new stuff to watch so let's see some more matches!

re: HDA vs Misawa/Kawada 6/9/95. that and undertaker vs hbk from WM XXV have to be my two most watched matches of the last year. i can't get enough of those and never find them hard to watch.


----------



## Jimix

My list isn't about the 5 star matches or the best matches ever, this are just my favourite matches of all time or something like that. 

Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee - Memphis 30/12/1985
Jerry Lawler vs Terry Funk - Memphis 23/3/1981
Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee - Memphis 6/6/1983
Jerry Lawler vs Dutch Mantell - Memphis 29/3/1982
Jerry Lawler vs Austin Idol - Memphis 27/4/1987

Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio - WWE SmackDown 23/6/2005
Bret Hart vs Stone Cold Steve Austin - WWF Wrestlemania XIII
Sgt Slaughter vs The Iron Sheik - WWF 16/6/1984
Eddie Guerrero vs JBL - WWE Judgment Day 2004
Chris Benoit vs Stone Cold Steve Austin - WWE SmackDown 31/5/2001
The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels - WWF Bad Blood 1997
Fit Finlay vs Chris Benoit - WWE Judgment Day 2006

Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat - NWA Clash of the Champions VI
Ric Flair vs Barry Windham - NWA Battle of the Belts II
Ricky Steamboat & Jay Youngblood vs Sgt Slaughter & Don Kernodle - NWA Final Conflict 12/3/1983
Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat - NWA House Show Landover 18/3/1989
Ricky Steamboat vs Rick Rude - WCW Beach Blast 1992
Sting & Barry Windham & Ricky Steamboat & Nikita Koloff & Dustin Rhodes vs Rick Rude & Steve Austin & Arn Anderson & Bobby Eaton & Larry Zbyszko - WCW WrestleWar 17/5/1992

Dick Murdoch vs Barry Windham - UWF 11/7/1987

Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness - ROH 6th Anniversary 23/2/2008
Bryan Danielson vs Roderick Strong - ROH Vendetta 2005


Andre the Giant vs Stan Hansen - NJPW 23/9/1981
Volk Han vs Kiyoshi Tamura - RINGS 22/1/1997
Jumbo Tsuruta vs Genichiro Tenryu - AJPW 6/5/1989
Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu vs Riki Choshu & Yoshiaki Yatsu - AJPW 28/1/1986
Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue - AJPW 9/6/1995
Mitsuharu Misawa vs Toshiaki Kawada - AJPW 3/6/1994
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi - AJPW 12/3/1993
Jushin Liger vs Naoki Sano - NJPW 30/1/1990
Jumbo Tsuruta vs Mitsuharu Misawa - AJPW 1/9/1990
Mitsuharu Misawa vs Kenta Kobashi - AJPW 20/1/1997
Terry Funk vs Stan Hansen - AJPW 14/4/1983
Terry Funk & Dory Funk vs Stan Hansen & Terry Gordy - AJPW 31/8/1983


El Dandy vs ***** Casas - CMLL 3/7/1992
Cicloncito Ramirez vs Damiancito El Guerrero - CMLL 1/7/1997
El Satanico vs Gran Cochisse - CMLL 14/9/1984 
El Hijo del Santo vs ***** Casas - CMLL 19/9/1997
Atlantis vs Blue Panther - CMLL 9/8/1991


----------



## Violent By Design

Jimix said:


> My list isn't about the 5 star matches or the best matches ever, this are just my favourite matches of all time or something like that.
> 
> Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee - Memphis 30/12/1985
> Jerry Lawler vs Terry Funk - Memphis 23/3/1981
> Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee - Memphis 6/6/1983
> Jerry Lawler vs Dutch Mantell - Memphis 29/3/1982
> Jerry Lawler vs Austin Idol - Memphis 27/4/1987
> 
> Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio - WWE SmackDown 23/6/2005
> Bret Hart vs Stone Cold Steve Austin - WWF Wrestlemania XIII
> Sgt Slaughter vs The Iron Sheik - WWF 16/6/1984
> Eddie Guerrero vs JBL - WWE Judgment Day 2004
> Chris Benoit vs Stone Cold Steve Austin - WWE SmackDown 31/5/2001
> The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels - WWF Bad Blood 1997
> Fit Finlay vs Chris Benoit - WWE Judgment Day 2006
> 
> Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat - NWA Clash of the Champions VI
> Ric Flair vs Barry Windham - NWA Battle of the Belts II
> Ricky Steamboat & Jay Youngblood vs Sgt Slaughter & Don Kernodle - NWA Final Conflict 12/3/1983
> Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat - NWA House Show Landover 18/3/1989
> Ricky Steamboat vs Rick Rude - WCW Beach Blast 1992
> Sting & Barry Windham & Ricky Steamboat & Nikita Koloff & Dustin Rhodes vs Rick Rude & Steve Austin & Arn Anderson & Bobby Eaton & Larry Zbyszko - WCW WrestleWar 17/5/1992
> 
> Dick Murdoch vs Barry Windham - UWF 11/7/1987
> 
> Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness - ROH 6th Anniversary 23/2/2008
> Bryan Danielson vs Roderick Strong - ROH Vendetta 2005
> 
> 
> Andre the Giant vs Stan Hansen - NJPW 23/9/1981
> Volk Han vs Kiyoshi Tamura - RINGS 22/1/1997
> Jumbo Tsuruta vs Genichiro Tenryu - AJPW 6/5/1989
> Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu vs Riki Choshu & Yoshiaki Yatsu - AJPW 28/1/1986
> Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue - AJPW 9/6/1995
> Mitsuharu Misawa vs Toshiaki Kawada - AJPW 3/6/1994
> Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi - AJPW 12/3/1993
> Jushin Liger vs Naoki Sano - NJPW 30/1/1990
> Jumbo Tsuruta vs Mitsuharu Misawa - AJPW 1/9/1990
> Mitsuharu Misawa vs Kenta Kobashi - AJPW 20/1/1997
> Terry Funk vs Stan Hansen - AJPW 14/4/1983
> Terry Funk & Dory Funk vs Stan Hansen & Terry Gordy - AJPW 31/8/1983
> 
> 
> El Dandy vs ***** Casas - CMLL 3/7/1992
> Cicloncito Ramirez vs Damiancito El Guerrero - CMLL 1/7/1997
> El Satanico vs Gran Cochisse - CMLL 14/9/1984
> El Hijo del Santo vs ***** Casas - CMLL 19/9/1997
> Atlantis vs Blue Panther - CMLL 9/8/1991


sweet list


----------



## Bubz

Yeah that's a really great list. Especially agree with like, all the Japan stuff (Not seen that Funk/Hansen singles match though tbh) and the ROH 6YA match (my favourite ROH match ever).


----------



## Violent By Design

Hey, I'm working on a top 100 wrestling list, and I'm rewatching some of the matches that I have written down.

I was wondering, does anyone have any links to a site with ROH matches? If you want to keep it private, just send me a PM, it'd be very useful. I might have some on my old computer, but it is a pain to hook it up.


rip megaupload


----------



## Cactus

XWT has a torrent of top 100 ROH matches on free leech. Should be worth checking out.


----------



## Bubz

Did you DL the torrent cactus? If you did, how updated is it?


----------



## Jimix

Bubz said:


> Yeah that's a really great list. Especially agree with like, all the Japan stuff (*Not seen that Funk/Hansen singles match though tbh*) and the ROH 6YA match (my favourite ROH match ever).


It's Terry Funk and Stan Hansen beating the hell out of each other, you can't get anything better than this. I recommend it, it's on youtube I think.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Violent By Design said:


> Hey, I'm working on a top 100 wrestling list, and I'm rewatching some of the matches that I have written down.
> 
> I was wondering, does anyone have any links to a site with ROH matches? If you want to keep it private, just send me a PM, it'd be very useful. I might have some on my old computer, but it is a pain to hook it up.
> 
> 
> rip megaupload


i put up ~20 yt links in a spoiler tag within the past couple hundo posts.


----------



## Cactus

Bubz said:


> Did you DL the torrent cactus? If you did, how updated is it?


Pretty updated. The poll was done in July of this year and there about 5 matches from 2011 included.


----------



## Concrete

This thread can't die. I so badly wished this thread was stickied. So many great lists and matches that people probably haven't seen. 

Even if you just post your favorite matches and give a little review. That would be great.When I'm bored I go to this thread and see what there is out there that I need to add to my "To watch list". If someone was trying to get into wrestling I would pull a list of matches straight from this thread. You can find one amazing match which will lead you to another which will lead you to another. 

You have a swank Finlay match list. Mid-South and Memphis list. Great stuff to delve into you. I use to Google "5 Star Matches" and always would go to Meltzer's list because that's all I had. This thread proves there is so much more. I wish there was something like this for me years ago when I was looking for great matches to watch.


----------



## Violent By Design

Does anyone have Jerry Lawler vs Dory Funk Jr?


----------



## Obfuscation

Ric Flair vs Terry Funk ~ _Great American Bash 1989_

I think i'm the only wrestling fan who might prefer Flair vs Funk from GAB '89 over their I Quit match from Clash in the same year. There is something about that match igniting the feud that I thought was stronger than when it finished. Flair returns from Funk's assault at WrestleWar so he's boiling. Funk is downright insane so there is the ingredients for a hot and wild World Championship match right there. I mean, man, all of it is done perfectly. Ahhh I love it. You know it rules right from the very _start_. Funk exits the ring trying to stall and jaw with fans. Flair removes the robe and blasts Funk to get it going. That's unlike Flair. This one was different than what Ric had done in his program with Steamboat. That was based purely on wrestling only. This one was based on revenge and brawling. That transition for Flair was unbelievable. Especially when he not only excelled in this feud, but got it to be AS good in quality as his phenomenal wreslting matches. Funk was semi-retired and announcing right prior to this feud. He jumps into a major program and shows why he is SO DAMN GOOD by being one of the best antagonists here. So crazy. So unpredictable. You weren't sure what he'd do to defeat Flair. He took him out once and he probably could do it again. Add in the trusty branding iron and then the match takes a new turn into very bloody territory. Which only ups the match to a different level of wow. Then the aftermath of it, oh my science, YES. As soon as Flair catches Funk in the small package counter, Muta hits the ring and ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE. Even the immediate aftermath was fantastic. Early sign of the Flair/Sting team and subsequently the Four Horsemen entry/big 1990 program. 

Don't know if anyone else would rank this one at the full 5 stars like myself, but it's always been one I thought that hit that level. Personal favorite if there ever was one. My second favorite NWA/WCW Flair match from 1989 behind the obvious, and top of the 5 star wrestling list, two out of three falls match vs Steamboat. I'm sure most have...but watch this if you haven't. Or if it has been awhile, then give it another go. On Flair's Definitive DVD so it's available to own. On youtube as well. WATCH~!


----------



## Violent By Design

I prefer the GAB match over their "I Quit" as well.


----------



## Obfuscation

(Y)

I Quit might have been trailblazing for the given gimmick, but it's not the best of their encounters. GAB is.


----------



## Yeah1993

Watched Hansen/Kobashi. Ever since I first watched I thought one of two things - either this match was overrated, or it was me. It was definitely me. I don't think this is five stars, the 93 match of the year or even still as good as Hansen/Kawada, but I don't know what I missed the first time. Just a mind-blowing match; has to be the best Kobashi singles behind 1/20/97 right? Anything I'm forgetting? #2 singles for Hansen behind Kawada 2/28/93 I'm thinking, too. The finish gave me goosebumps.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

I don't think it's as good as Hansen/Kawada from '93, either. And I like Hansen/Andre more than it, too. But yeah, it's a fucking great match and probably the second best Kobashi match ever behind the 1/20/97 Misawa match. 

Watch Tenryu/Yatsu if you haven't already, btw.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine

Re-watched Angle/Undertaker/Rock from vengeance 02 the other day. Still one of my favourite matches, but I didn't like it nearly as much as before. No longer ***** .

Also, I hear that megaupload will be back soon. They've got servers set up and have almost completed the new code for the site, so either the end of the year or early next year me thinks.


----------



## Bubz

Yeah1993 said:


> Watched Hansen/Kobashi. Ever since I first watched I thought one of two things - either this match was overrated, or it was me. It was definitely me. I don't think this is five stars, the 93 match of the year or even still as good as Hansen/Kawada, but I don't know what I missed the first time. Just a mind-blowing match; has to be the best Kobashi singles behind 1/20/97 right? Anything I'm forgetting? #2 singles for Hansen behind Kawada 2/28/93 I'm thinking, too. The finish gave me goosebumps.


The one with the Northern Lariat off the turnbuckle? Yeah, amazing fucking match, in my top 5 for 90's AJPW probably (maybe). Definitely behind 1/20/97 Misawa match, but I can't think of another better Kobashi singles match.

Kawada/Tenryu '00 is the latest 5* match I've seen. Just beautiful.


----------



## Violent By Design

Rewatched Funk vs Flair, I Quit match. I think this is my best viewing of it, was never a big fan of the match, but I was digging it today.


----------



## Yeah1993

Andy3000 said:


> I don't think it's as good as Hansen/Kawada from '93, either. And I like Hansen/Andre more than it, too. But yeah, it's a fucking great match and probably the second best Kobashi match ever behind the 1/20/97 Misawa match.
> 
> Watch Tenryu/Yatsu if you haven't already, btw.


I definitely like Hansen/Andre more personally, but that's probably one of my five favourite matches ever and I don't think I'd say it's better.

Which Schneider Comp is Tenryu/Yatsu on? Don't think I have it.



KingCal said:


> Also, I hear that megaupload will be back soon. They've got servers set up and have almost completed the new code for the site, so either the end of the year or early next year me thinks.


You better not be fucking. :mark:



Bubz said:


> The one with the Northern Lariat off the turnbuckle?


Yep~


----------



## WOOLCOCK

That might be the single greatest strike Hansen threw in his entire career, well that or the absolutely FILTHY forearm/slap strike he throws at Tenryu on the floor in the famous 'nobody potatoes me' All Japan match.

Agree with the consensus, Kobashi/Misawa 1/20/97 is Kobashi's best singles match, but that Hansen match, Takayama in NOAH 2004, Akiyama in NOAH 12/23/00 and maybe one of the Dr Death matches would round out his top 5. Actually the Honda NOAH 2003 match could sneak into the top 5 as well.

Kawada/Hansen is better though, just the ultimate meeting of uncontained stiff violence vs uncontained stiff violence.

Think Tenryu/Yatsu was the first match I actually reviewed in the Puro thread, adored it to bits and its definitely one of the more violent Tenryu matches I can recall seeing (which says an awful lot given its Tenryu and 'violence').


----------



## Yeah1993

Kobashi's 5 best singles is something neato to think about. I'd probably agree with WOOLCOCK's top 5, but I think I watched only one Kobashi/Williams years ago and I don't think it was their supposed best one (8/31/93). I'm nearly up to that on the 93 yearbook (which you'd know if I wasn't a Lazy Writes-Nothing jackass), and I have good hopes for it after the match with Hansen. Any other Misawa matches that'd make his top five? 3/31/96 is probably their second best match together, but I didn't *love it* love it (you know?) and didn't think it was even as good as Kawada/Taue from the same night. Their 98, 99, and 03 matches I don't even think come within a galaxy of 1/20/97. Not even in the same dimension. 

Anything else? Maybe 6/12/98 v Kawada?


----------



## WOOLCOCK

Tbh a lot of their matches which aren't the most famous sort of blend together so its hard to think off the top of my head. I remember thinking the October 98 match (10/31?) was a clear step and a half below their 1/20/97 match, and the remaining end of the decade matches didn't come close to improving their 1997 masterpiece. GHC NOAH 2003 match is one of their weaker matches to me, just something I find to be too excessive in terms of the Puro Main Event style. I do recall really digging one of their Champions Carnival matches, I might be mistaking it but one that spings to mind is a 30 minute draw which ultimately leads to Kawada winning the tournament due to the Misawa/Kobashi draw basically fucking up their stamina. It might not be the match I recall thinking was super nifty, but that's the only one that springs to mind.

Kobashi/Takayama 5/26/00 also needs some loving. Feels like a lesser version of their 2004 match in terms of spectacle and atmosphere, largely because its Takayama's coming out party whereas by 04 he's a monster and reveared throughout Japan. At one point I found it a better match than the 04 encounter in terms of the sum of its parts (think Kobashi's arm selling was more succint here than in the 04 one) but I'll probably rewatch both in order to reassess that view when it comes to the BOTD poll.

Kawada/Kobashi is a really dark area for me, only their broadway 95 match is something I have a proper recollection of. Would rank it far lower than a lot of the big singles bouts from that era, but as far as 60 minute draws go I've seen a lot worse. Still I find Kobashi/Kawada to be a far better pairing when they go for shorter but more impactful matches rather than 30 minute plus matches.

Might actually try and watch that 96 Misawa match soon, be interesting to try and watch a match or two of theirs which I've forgotten/struggle to remember much about.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT

Yeah1993 said:


> .Which Schneider Comp is Tenryu/Yatsu on? Don't think I have it.


#23. The one with the Santo/Brazo de Oro apuestas and the '08 Battlarts 6-man.


----------



## Bubz

Top 5 Kobashi singles matches is pretty hard I think when you get past the Misawa and Hansen matches. Probably be something like...

vs Misawa 1/20/97
vs Hansen 8/15/93
vs Kawada 6/12/98 (can't remember a lot about this, but I remember thinking it was brilliant)
vs Akiyama 7/10/04
vs Takayama 4/25/04

Not a huge fan of the Kobashi/Williams matches I've seen, although I'm not sure if I've seen their supposed best match together. I have seen the one were Kobashi almost gets fucking killed with a couple backdrop drivers at the end if that's the one, and I thought it was alright but nothing amazing. I know the Akiyama match might be an unpopular choice, pretty sure everyone knows I love that match by now lol.

Top 5 Kawada matches...GO!


----------



## Russian Hooligan

WWF/E
Owen Hart vs Bret Hart - Wrestlemania 10
Bret Hart vs Owen Hart - Summerslam 1994
Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Bret Hart - Wrestlemania 13
Chris Benoit vs HBK vs HHH - Wrestlemania 20
Kurt Angle vs HBK - Wrestlemania 21
John Cena vs CM Punk - MITB 2011

TNA
Samoa Joe vs Christopher Daniels vs AJ Styles - Unbreakable 2005

ROH
Samoa Joe vs CM Punk - Joe Vs Punk II
Kenta Kobashi vs Samoa Joe - Joe vs Kobashi
Dragon Kid & Ryo Saito & Genki Horiguchi vs CIMA & Masato Yoshino & Naruki Doi - ROH Supercard of Honor
Bryan Danielson vs KENTA - Glory By Honor V Night 2
Nigel MacGuinness vs Bryan Danielson - Unified
Davey Richards vs Tyler Black - Death Before Dishonor VIII
Davey Richards vs Eddie Edwards - Best in the World 2011
Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin - SitS Night 1 2012

NJPW
Tiger Mask I vs The Dynamite Kid - 04/23/83 
Naoki Sano vs Jushin Thunder Liger - 1/31/1990
Chris Benoit vs Great Sasuke - Super J Cup 1994
El Samurai vs Koji Kanemoto - BOSJ 1997

AJPW
Tiger Mask II vs Kuniaki Kobayashi - 03/09/85
Jumbo Tsuruta vs Genichiro Tenryu - 06/06/89 
Mitsuharu Misawa vs Jumbo Tsuruta - 06/08/90 
Dan Kroffat & Doug Furnas vs Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi 05/25/92
Toshiaki Kawada vs Kenta Kobashi - 04/14/93
Stan Hansen vs Kenta Kobashi - 07/29/93
Steve Williams vs Kenta Kobashi - 08/31/93
Mitsuharu Misawa vs Toshiaki Kawada - 06/03/94
Kenta Kobashi vs Toshiaki Kawada - 01/19/95
Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue - 01/24/95
Mitsuharu Misawa vs Akira Taue - 04/15/95
Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue - 06/09/95
Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs Steve Williams & Johnny Ace - 06/07/96
Mitsuharu Misawa vs Toshiaki Kawada - 06/06/97
Mitsuharu Misawa vs Kenta Kobashi - 10/31/98
Mitsuharu Misawa vs Kenta Kobashi - 6/11/99

NOAH
Kenta Kobashi vs Mitsuhara Misawa - 03/01/03
Kenta Kobashi vs Jun Akiyama - NOAH Departure 2004
Kensuke Sasaki & Katsuhiko Nakajima vs Kenta Kobashi & Go Shiozaki - 11/05/05
Kenta Kobashi vs Kensuke Sasaki - NOAH Destiny 2005
Naomichi Marufuji vs KENTA - 10/29/06

AAA
Los Gringos Locos vs El Hijo del Santo & Octagon - 11/06/94

AJW
Manami Toyota vs Toshiyo Yamada - 08/15/92
Akira Hokuto vs Shinobu Kandori - 04/02/93
Dynamite Kansai & Mayumi Ozaki vs Manami Toyota & Toshiyo Yamada - 04/11/93
Manami Toyota & Toshiyo Yamada vs Dynamite Kansai & Mayumi Ozaki - 12/06/93
Manami Toyota vs Kyoko Inoue - 08/24/94
Aja Kong vs Manami Toyota - 11/20/94
Manami Toyota vs Kyoko Inoue - 5/7/1995


----------



## USAUSA1

I feel like a five star match should be a perfect match with everything.

For me personally its always been:
Flair vs. Steamboat COTC match

Flair vs. Windham 1/20/87,they kept you on the edge of the seats.

Austin vs. Hart WM and Survivor Series,without these matches there would be no Austin or WWE.

Hart vs. HBK IronMan, this match always had its critics. They say its not enough falls or excitement. That's why I think its great. Its similar to the Flair/Windham in the sense that it will take more than the time limit to just get one pin over me,COMPETITION. In the early days of wrestling when it was LEGIT real, it would take 60-70 minutes just for one fall in the big matches. I think if there are more than 3 falls in a 60 minute IronMan match, it defeats the purpose. 

Samoa Joe vs. AJ Styles Sacrifice 2005 match is just amazing too me.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Russian Hooligan said:


> AJPW
> Tiger Mask II vs Kuniaki Kobayashi - 03/09/85
> Jumbo Tsuruta vs Genichiro Tenryu - 06/06/89
> Mitsuharu Misawa vs Jumbo Tsuruta - 06/08/90
> Dan Kroffat & Doug Furnas vs Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi 05/25/92
> Toshiaki Kawada vs Kenta Kobashi - 04/14/93
> Stan Hansen vs Kenta Kobashi - 07/29/93
> Steve Williams vs Kenta Kobashi - 08/31/93
> Mitsuharu Misawa vs Toshiaki Kawada - 06/03/94
> Kenta Kobashi vs Toshiaki Kawada - 01/19/95
> Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue - 01/24/95
> Mitsuharu Misawa vs Akira Taue - 04/15/95
> Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue - 06/09/95
> Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs Steve Williams & Johnny Ace - 06/07/96
> Mitsuharu Misawa vs Toshiaki Kawada - 06/06/97
> Mitsuharu Misawa vs Kenta Kobashi - 10/31/98
> Mitsuharu Misawa vs Kenta Kobashi - 6/11/99


this list is pretty lol to me. not that they're not good matches, it's just like you copy/pasted meltzer's 5* list here and deleted a couple. not saying you did, just that it's funny that's what it looks like. with some of those matches you listed i'm shocked that Hansen/Kawada isn't there.


----------



## WOOLCOCK

USAUSA1 said:


> Hart vs. HBK IronMan, this match always had its critics. They say its not enough falls or excitement. That's why I think its great. Its similar to the Flair/Windham in the sense that it will take more than the time limit to just get one pin over me,COMPETITION. In the early days of wrestling when it was LEGIT real, it would take 60-70 minutes just for one fall in the big matches. I think if there are more than 3 falls in a 60 minute IronMan match, it defeats the purpose.


I really wouldn't say its close to Flair/Windham at all. Flair/Windham is superb for many reasons, the ever present story where Windham is established as good enough to continually dominate Flair only for his inexperience to always seemingly give Flair an opportunity to turn the tide, Windham having some of the best offence in history whilst being a sensational seller and pure babyface, Flair working his charisma and character into every exchange and selling the match beautifully through his mannerisms and emotions whilst Windham sells the wear and tear, the pacing being fluid and marvellous and the battle between young phenom vs star veteran always providing for smooth transitions and engaging nearfalls.

HBK/Bret just feels like a badly done 60 minute match. The first half presents what could have been a great story with Michaels outwrestling Hart and taking the initiative, only to resort to his usual high flying in an attempt to win the match and providing Hart with an escape route to regain control...but the problem is Bret blows off all the armwork Shawn utilises to the point where it removes any drama from the match, Bret doesn't come off as a wounded champion and that significantly affects the drama needed for a match of that length. HBK and Bret's personal problems also seem to affect the match, neither really looks committed to trying to make the other look as good as they can, as evidenced by Bret's lack of desire to sell Michaels' armwork from the first half of the match. Neither are my favourite workers of all time but I just think its a dry match and lacks that truly engaging story and performance from either man that someone like a Flair was capable of. Say what you will about some of his theatrics but he was always working and reacting to each big moment in a match and making it work, and the likes of Windham and Steamboat were far better babyfaces for him to work off than Michaels was against Bret.

Backlund/Valentine from 1979 is still WWF/E's greatest Broadway match by some distance. Largely in no small part because of the respective performances from both men, as well as the story of Valentine's inability to lock on the figure four and him slowly driving himself neurotic in trying to incapacitate Backlund long enough for him to not be able to counter the hold.


----------



## MaldoY2J

Michael Elgin vs Davey Richards Showdon in the sun 2012

CM Punk vs John Cena Money in the Bank 2011

Naomichi Marufuji vs KENTA AJPW Jr. & GHC Jr. Heavyweight championships

Davey Richards vs Roderick Strong Finnal Battle 2010

Kevin Steen vs El Generico Final Battle 2010

Future Shock vs Super Smash Bros vs Young Bucks Ladder Match


----------



## Yeah1993

bigbuxxx said:


> this list is pretty lol to me. not that they're not good matches, it's just like you copy/pasted meltzer's 5* list here and deleted a couple. not saying you did, just that it's funny that's what it looks like. with some of those matches you listed i'm shocked that Hansen/Kawada isn't there.


I.........kinda got that impression too. Especially Kawada/Kobashi 4/14/93 which only the last ten minutes of footage is available.


----------



## Russian Hooligan

bigbuxxx said:


> with some of those matches you listed i'm shocked that Hansen/Kawada isn't there.


I have not seen this match.


----------



## Obfuscation

I know it all comes down to opinion at the end of it all, but I really can't take the 5 star match rating seriously when I see "Davey Richards" in it. Match vs Elgin is the full 5? It didn't even hit 4 stars for me. Really good match I'll say. Especially on the curve of both men (especially Davey). Far, far, far from being a 5 star match, however.


----------



## Russian Hooligan

Davey Richards vs. Michael Elgin was incredible action. I watched the match standing. With me for a long time this was not. 5 stars, no doubt. Epical Epic Of Epicness, differently and not say. Brutal, awesome match.


----------



## Horselover Fat

Russian Hooligan said:


> WWF/E
> Owen Hart vs Bret Hart - Wrestlemania 10
> Bret Hart vs Owen Hart - Summerslam 1994
> Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Bret Hart - Wrestlemania 13
> Chris Benoit vs HBK vs HHH - Wrestlemania 20
> Kurt Angle vs HBK - Wrestlemania 21
> John Cena vs CM Punk - MITB 2011
> 
> TNA
> Samoa Joe vs Christopher Daniels vs AJ Styles - Unbreakable 2005
> 
> ROH
> Samoa Joe vs CM Punk - Joe Vs Punk II
> Kenta Kobashi vs Samoa Joe - Joe vs Kobashi
> Dragon Kid & Ryo Saito & Genki Horiguchi vs CIMA & Masato Yoshino & Naruki Doi - ROH Supercard of Honor
> Bryan Danielson vs KENTA - Glory By Honor V Night 2
> Nigel MacGuinness vs Bryan Danielson - Unified
> Davey Richards vs Tyler Black - Death Before Dishonor VIII
> Davey Richards vs Eddie Edwards - Best in the World 2011
> Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin - SitS Night 1 2012
> 
> NJPW
> Tiger Mask I vs The Dynamite Kid - 04/23/83
> Naoki Sano vs Jushin Thunder Liger - 1/31/1990
> Chris Benoit vs Great Sasuke - Super J Cup 1994
> El Samurai vs Koji Kanemoto - BOSJ 1997
> 
> AJPW
> Tiger Mask II vs Kuniaki Kobayashi - 03/09/85
> Jumbo Tsuruta vs Genichiro Tenryu - 06/06/89
> Mitsuharu Misawa vs Jumbo Tsuruta - 06/08/90
> Dan Kroffat & Doug Furnas vs Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi 05/25/92
> Toshiaki Kawada vs Kenta Kobashi - 04/14/93
> Stan Hansen vs Kenta Kobashi - 07/29/93
> Steve Williams vs Kenta Kobashi - 08/31/93
> Mitsuharu Misawa vs Toshiaki Kawada - 06/03/94
> Kenta Kobashi vs Toshiaki Kawada - 01/19/95
> Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue - 01/24/95
> Mitsuharu Misawa vs Akira Taue - 04/15/95
> Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue - 06/09/95
> Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs Steve Williams & Johnny Ace - 06/07/96
> Mitsuharu Misawa vs Toshiaki Kawada - 06/06/97
> Mitsuharu Misawa vs Kenta Kobashi - 10/31/98
> Mitsuharu Misawa vs Kenta Kobashi - 6/11/99
> 
> NOAH
> Kenta Kobashi vs Mitsuhara Misawa - 03/01/03
> Kenta Kobashi vs Jun Akiyama - NOAH Departure 2004
> Kensuke Sasaki & Katsuhiko Nakajima vs Kenta Kobashi & Go Shiozaki - 11/05/05
> Kenta Kobashi vs Kensuke Sasaki - NOAH Destiny 2005
> Naomichi Marufuji vs KENTA - 10/29/06
> 
> AAA
> Los Gringos Locos vs El Hijo del Santo & Octagon - 11/06/94
> 
> AJW
> Manami Toyota vs Toshiyo Yamada - 08/15/92
> Akira Hokuto vs Shinobu Kandori - 04/02/93
> Dynamite Kansai & Mayumi Ozaki vs Manami Toyota & Toshiyo Yamada - 04/11/93
> Manami Toyota & Toshiyo Yamada vs Dynamite Kansai & Mayumi Ozaki - 12/06/93
> Manami Toyota vs Kyoko Inoue - 08/24/94
> Aja Kong vs Manami Toyota - 11/20/94
> Manami Toyota vs Kyoko Inoue - 5/7/1995


what are your thoughts on sheepherders vs fantastics


----------



## bigbuxxx

Russian Hooligan said:


> Davey Richards vs. Michael Elgin was incredible action. I watched the match standing. With me for a long time this was not. 5 stars, no doubt. Epical Epic Of Epicness, differently and not say. Brutal, awesome match.


i thought it was terrible and i'm a huge mark of meltzer. movez! and stuff.



> what are your thoughts on sheepherders vs fantastics


 lol'ed


----------



## Violent By Design

Didn't care for Elign vs Richards at all. Worthy of a main event, sure. But...it is just the typical crazy no-selling that I grew used too. It takes a bit more for me to rate a match highly than just having a monster heel vs face match up. 



Spiced Out Calvin Coolidge said:


> what are your thoughts on sheepherders vs fantastics


haha, leave the poor lad alone!


----------



## Russian Hooligan

Violent By Design said:


> Didn't care for Elign vs Richards at all. Worthy of a main event, sure. But...it is just the typical crazy no-selling that I grew used too.


And how many have you seen this year typical crazy no-selling matches that level as Richards vs Elgin?


----------



## Violent By Design

Russian Hooligan said:


> And how many have you seen this year typical crazy no-selling matches that level as Richards vs Elgin?


I'm honestly not sure how to answer this question. Are you literally asking how many matches have I seen that have absurd amounts of no-selling?


Though it wasn't the no-selling that was the problem, it's the psychology of it that was poor. I have no problem with no-selling in general.


----------



## bigbuxxx

He's asking if you've seen "crazy no-selling matches" as good or better than Elgin vs Richards from this year.


----------



## Chismo

Russian Hooligan said:


> And how many have you seen this year typical crazy no-selling matches that level as Richards vs Elgin?


Richards vs. Elgin II?


----------



## BKKsoulcity

What's your guys thoughts on the 5 stars given to Tanahashi vs. Suzuki (10/8/12) recently from Meltzer??

I see where he's coming from and why that can be given 5 stars but IDK it wasn't ALL there that match and somethings were definitely missing.


----------



## MF83

Psychologically deep with exciting submissions, a unique story, a career performance by Suzuki, and NOT A SINGLE NEARFALL. I don't know if it's five stars or not but it's a special match.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Gonna add Tanahashi vs Goto from 11/11/07 as many others have said.
Also adding Tanahashi vs Goto from 6/18/11. This match is at least as good as their '07 encounter and I think it's better. A classic for sure.


----------



## ADC

Bret Hart vs. British Bulldog - Summerslam 1992
Sabu vs. Terry Funk vs. Shane Douglas - ECW The Night the Line Was Crossed
Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart - Wrestlemania 12
Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama vs Go Shiozaki & Doug Williams - Universal Uproar
Kurt Angle vs. Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania 2007
Kurt Angle vs. Shawn Michaels - Vengeance 2007
Kurt Angle vs. Samoa Joe - TNA Dec 2006
Kurt Angle vs. Samoa Joe - TNA 2008


----------



## Bubz

MF83 said:


> Psychologically deep with exciting submissions, a unique story, a career performance by Suzuki, and NOT A SINGLE NEARFALL. I don't know if it's five stars or not but it's a special match.


Definitely. Wouldn't go 5 for it, but it's ****1/2 rather easily imo. The fact that they didn't use even 2 big kickouts iirc was so refreshing and unique, especially in this day and age.


----------



## bigbuxxx

As I said in the puro thread that match would've benefited from the finish of the 11/11/07 Tana/Goto match with the HFF into a Texas Cloverleaf and a tapout. I really think that could've sent it through the roof.


----------



## MF83

Bubz said:


> Definitely. Wouldn't go 5 for it, but it's ****1/2 rather easily imo. The fact that they didn't use even 2 big kickouts iirc was so refreshing and unique, especially in this day and age.


3 count was the only pinfall attempt of the match, seriously. Agree that a cloverleaf finish would have been better but it was still damn unique.


----------



## Bubz

Forgot to post this the other day when I watched it, but Kawada vs Hashimoto 04 is the latest match I've watched that'd get the full 5 from me. Fucking glorious match in every possible way. Perfect.


----------



## Obfuscation

Midnight Express vs Southern Boys ~ _NWA-WCW Great American Bash 1990_

I'd like to see this match kept in the discussion for about a week or longer.


----------



## mk92071

Gave my first ***** match after rating matches for about a year. Gave it to Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels at WrestleMania 26. I loved the whole build up to it, and it showed how important the match up was to both men, and that justified the finisher heavy match. I loved how Undertaker had to utilize the jumping tombstone piledriver to finally but Shawn down in the end after the whole match. The work on Taker's knee and selling of it was great throughout the match and it made many spots logical, although the work didn't directly impact the finish I was very pleased with this. I felt like everything had a meaning and the match was just a spectacle. I've probably watched this 5 times now. I saw it live and didn't like it much, just thought of it as a finisher heavy match. On my first rewatch I didn't like it but on the second I thought it was good. After that I watched it again and thought it was a near classic, and now I feel it deserves a special place as my only ***** match.


----------



## Ali Dia

I always liked the there WM 26 match more than than the 25. I wouldn't give either 5 but I thought the 26 match was a fair degree better.


----------



## Bubz

Taker/Shawn 25 and 26 are both pretty spectacular imo. On numerous re-watches though I'm pretty sure I prefer 25. Just something about it, despite 26 arguably having the better storytelling and selling elements. But ask me when I've re-watched them again and it could be 26.


----------



## Certified G

I prefered the WM26 match over the WM25 match. Needless to say both were amazing matches with a great build up.

As for my personal 5* matches, I don't keep a list or anything but I have 2 matches that immidiately come to mind. I have said in the past I'm a huge fan of spotfests and lack of psychology and storytelling doesn't bother me much if at all. Therefor Richards/Edwards II from BITW 2011 and Richards/Elgin from Showdown In The Sun would both get a 5 star rating from me. 
I had so much fun watching those matches.. just the entertainment I got out of those 2 matches was second to none for me. I'm very sure alot of people will disagree with my rating for those 2 matches but it all just comes down to the fact that I get entertainment out of different aspects of a match (the moves, stiffness etc.. as opposed to how someone sells or what story is told in the ring)


----------



## EmbassyForever

The Corre said:


> I prefered the WM26 match over the WM25 match. Needless to say both were amazing matches with a great build up.
> 
> As for my personal 5* matches, I don't keep a list or anything but I have 2 matches that immidiately come to mind. I have said in the past I'm a huge fan of spotfests and lack of psychology and storytelling doesn't bother me much if at all. Therefor Richards/Edwards II from BITW 2011 and Richards/Elgin from Showdown In The Sun would both get a 5 star rating from me.
> I had so much fun watching those matches.. just the entertainment I got out of those 2 matches was second to none for me. I'm very sure alot of people will disagree with my rating for those 2 matches but it all just comes down to the fact that I get entertainment out of different aspects of a match (the moves, stiffness etc.. as opposed to how someone sells or what story is told in the ring)


Agree with you about Richards/Elgin, it was so awesome to watch this live, I came to the match with no big expectations since this feud had ZERO build and even if I was Elgin fan then I didn't thought a match between him and Davey can be that good & I was super-pissed after the stream problems but I was wrong and this match was worth the price alone. After the Top-Rope Dragon Suplex everything becaome so inasne.. I was exhausted at the end lol.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Taker/Michaels at WM 25 is my most watched North American match of the past 1.5 years. It's brilliant and 5* imo. I've watched their WM 26 encounter twice because I think it's the exact opposite of the previous encounter.


----------



## ConnyB

WM26 Takes it for me, I really cried when Shawn was trying to get up and got Tombstoned.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

*Updated*


----------



## dodo dragon

from this year:
SSB vs Young bucks vs future shock PWG threemendous 3
Kenny Omega vs Kota Ibushi, i dont know at what show...


----------



## bigbuxxx

dodo dragon said:


> from this year:
> Kenny Omega vs Kota Ibushi, i dont know at what show...


i searched the MOTY thread and Omega vs Yamato from 1/3 of this year is very high on most peoples list and nobody has an omega/ibushi match so i'll assume it was this or a match not from this year.


----------



## Flux

bigbuxxx said:


> i searched the MOTY thread and Omega vs Yamato from 1/3 of this year is very high on most peoples list and nobody has an omega/ibushi match so i'll assume it was this or a match not from this year.


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xswwun_kota-ibushi-c-vs-kenny-omega-ddt_sport?search_algo=2


----------



## Bubz

bigbuxxx said:


> i searched the MOTY thread and Omega vs Yamato from 1/3 of this year is very high on most peoples list and nobody has an omega/ibushi match so i'll assume it was this or a match not from this year.


It is from this year, but people just don't have it on their lists because it's terrible.


----------



## Obfuscation

*WCW WrestleWar 1991* - _War Games_
Ric Flair, Barry Windham, Sid Vicious, & Larry Zbyszko vs Sting, Scott Steiner, Rick Steiner, & Brian Pillman

*WCW Superbrawl II *- _WCW Light Heavyweight Championship_
Brian Pillman vs Jushin Liger


Pillman rocking that 5 star SWAG. Dammit to hell he was fantastic. All the players during war games were. Even SID. One of those rare matches where a botch actually helped a match out.


----------



## ADC

Sasaki vs. Kobashi, NOAH.


----------



## MF83

My ongoing "official" seen-them-minimum-twice-and-they-hold-up list of now:

Antonio Inoki -vs- Jack Brisco (JWA; 1971-08-05)

Giant Baba -vs- Billy Robinson (AJPW; 1976-07-24) 

Andre the Giant vs. Stan Hansen (NJPW; 1981-09-23)

Terry Funk vs. Stan Hansen (4/14/83)

Sergeant Slaughter vs. The Iron Sheik [Boot Camp Match] (WWF;1984-06-16)

Jumbo Tsuruta & Tenryu Genichiro vs. Choshu Riki & Yatsu Yoshiaki (AJPW; 1986-01-28) 

Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Tenryu Genichiro (AJPW; 1989-06-09)

***** Casas/Atlantis/Brazo De Oro/El Dandy/Mascara Magica/La Fiera/Shocker/Ultimo Dragon vs El Hijo Del Santo/Black Warrior/Dr. Wagner Jr./Felino/Kevin Quinn/Satanico/Scorpio Jr./Silver King (CMLL; 1997-04-18)

Atlantis vs Villano III (máscara contra máscara) (CMLL; 2000-03-17)


----------



## Obfuscation

Any luck on knowing or having a link to the Cibernetico match?

8 vs 8 tag in Lucha Libre. Gonna go out and assume that it is a Cibernetico.


----------



## asdf0501

Yes is a Cibernetico match in build up for the Santo/Casas match form later in the year.

I belive i have the match in the other pc


----------



## Yeah1993

The Cibernetico is a classic and probably like the 4th best CMLL match of 1997. They had a stupidly insane year.


----------



## Obfuscation

asdf0501 said:


> Yes is a Cibernetico match in build up for the Santo/Casas match form later in the year.
> 
> I belive i have the match in the other pc


Santo vs Casas Hair vs Mask?

I'm gonna press my luck with the Cibernetico on dailymotion. Still open to a link if anyone has it.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

*Updated*


----------



## asdf0501

HayleySabin said:


> Santo vs Casas Hair vs Mask?
> 
> I'm gonna press my luck with the Cibernetico on dailymotion. Still open to a link if anyone has it.


Some time late but the match is now also in Youtube


----------



## Tanner1495

I will have a well developed 5 Star list once my Top 1000 is complete, see you guys in about a year lol


----------



## Obfuscation

Completely forgot about asking for the match. This is brilliant.


----------



## bigbuxxx

Shameless bump.

Adding Okada vs Tanahashi from Invasion Attack on 4/7/13 to my list . Incredible match.


----------



## duttanized

Every single Young Bucks match in the past two years.


----------



## Lazyking

bigbuxxx said:


> Shameless bump.
> 
> Adding Okada vs Tanahashi from Invasion Attack on 4/7/13 to my list . Incredible match.


Agreed. I have it at five stars too and I'm by no means a puro nut.

Question. Do most keep their match archives in a excel spreadsheet? I've just started archiving some of my favorite wrestlers and was thinking of doing a ***** list but not sure what the best way is..

I've been watching wrestling for 20 years but just started rating.


----------



## WashingtonD

Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart - WrestleMania 13
Steve Austin vs. The Rock - WrestleMania 17
CM Punk vs. John Cena - Money in the Bank 2011
John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar - Extreme Rules 2012

Not seen barely any Japanese/Mexican ever. Purely a WWE/WCW/TNA viewer, with some bits of old NWA/AWA here and there. I'm not inclined to give out 5 stars, except for absolute perfection, of which these 4 matches were, in my opinion. Lots of 4.5, 4.75's, but none that have that 5 star "feel" except these 4.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart - WrestleMania 13
Steve Austin vs. The Rock - WrestleMania 17
CM Punk vs. John Cena - Money in the Bank 2011, RAW 2013
Ultimo Dragon vs Jushin Liger - WAR 1995
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs Eddie Guerrero - AAA 1994, Mask vs Mask WCW 1997
Hombre Bala Jr vs Soberano Jr. - CMLL 2013

Just to pick 3 american matches/feuds and 3 other.


----------



## Rah

When was the Soberano/Bala match? Link?

Edit: the only thing I can find of theirs is the Sangre Nueva semi-final, which had ten guys in it. That match was iffy, if I recall.


----------



## Máscara Dorada

Rah said:


> When was the Soberano/Bala match? Link?
> 
> Edit: the only thing I can find of theirs is the Sangre Nueva semi-final, which had ten guys in it. That match was iffy, if I recall.


Yeah i mean that match when they were solo the last 10 minutes. It was really awesome, really gave me flashbacks, felt like a Juvi/Mysterio match from 1995. 4 amazing dives, that apron 619 e.t.c. I just watched it, that's why i'm so hyped up about it! :ex:


----------



## Matt_Yoda

*You know the drill, updated list with added matches.*

Magnum TA vs. Tully Blanchard (11/28/85)
El Hijo Del Santo/Octagon vs. Los Gringos Locos (11/6/1994)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Psicosis (9/22/1995)
Togo, TAKA, Shiryu, Teioh & Funaki vs. Hamada, Delfin, TMIV, Naniwa & Yakushiji (10/10/1996)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Eddie Guerrero (10/26/97)
Atlantis vs. Villano III (3/17/2000)
Dragon Kid vs. Darkness Dragon (9/8/2002)
Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs. Edge & Rey Mysterio (10/20/2002)
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit (1/19/2003)
Mistico vs. Averno (1/30/2005)
Mistico vs. Averno (2/11/2005)
Matt Hardy vs. Edge (9/18/2005)
Blood Generation vs. Do Fixer (3/21/2006)
Briscoe Brothers vs. Generation Next (8/12/2006)
Ryo Saito vs. Masaaki Mochizuki (12/22/2006)
Briscoe Brothers vs. Murder City Machine Guns (4/28/2007)
Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (4/5/2009)
CIMA, Gamma & Dragon Kid vs. BxB Hulk, Masato Yoshino & Naruki Doi (3/27/2010)
John Cena vs. Dave Batista (03/28/10)
Davey Richards vs. Tyler Black (6/19/2010)
Davey Richards vs. Michael Elgin (3/31/2012)


----------



## Obfuscation

Wait, Cena vs Batista from WM 26 is five stars?


----------



## obby

Obfuscation said:


> Wait, Cena vs Batista from WM 26 is five stars?


was a good match, but nowhere near *****. ***1/2 maybe.

A ***** match DID go down in the main event of wrestlemania 26, however.


----------



## Chismo

I gotta add the following: *Steen, Elgin & Cage vs. Fox, Ricochet & Swann* from PWG All-Star Weekend 9 - Night 2.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

Obfuscation said:


> Wait, Cena vs Batista from WM 26 is five stars?


Not popularly but for me it certainly is, I love the hell out of that match. Both guys go in and do what they do best; constantly swinging for the fences backed with good momentum trading and an awesome finishing stretch. They played to each others strengths and worked a believable style that you'd expect from them, the lack of finesse actually added to the match rather than hurt it (think Brawlers in Boxing). This was less showoff-y than the SummerSlam match which made sense given the storyline and Cena's desperation to win. Far and away my favorite Cena match and probably my favorite Batista match.

EDIT:
Taker/Michaels II did nothing for me. Their WM25 match is light-years better for my dollar.


----------



## Obfuscation

Very interesting take on it. 

For me that match was always ok at best and a solid watch, just nothing I'd go out of my way to put over or talk about.


----------



## Matt_Yoda

Obfuscation said:


> Very interesting take on it.
> 
> For me that match was always ok at best and a solid watch, just nothing I'd go out of my way to put over or talk about.


Oh of course, I never expected it to be a widely praised match by any stretch.


----------



## obby

JoeRulz said:


> I gotta add the following: *Steen, Elgin & Cage vs. Fox, Ricochet & Swann* from PWG All-Star Weekend 9 - Night 2.


:mark:

can't wait to watch this, i'm still not done DDT4 :side:


----------



## Obfuscation

^finish it so you can hop onto ASW Night One to see Callihan vs Younger. :mark:

unless you're one of the cats who's not into their matches..._(booooo?)_


----------



## obby

well, as it stands I've only seen their Mystery Vortex matchup, which I rather enjoyed


----------



## bigbuxxx

JoeRulz said:


> I gotta add the following: *Steen, Elgin & Cage vs. Fox, Ricochet & Swann* from PWG All-Star Weekend 9 - Night 2.


pretty sure I bumped this thread to mention that match but if I'm mistakened...that match is also on my 5* match list. I don't keep a 5* match list but I'm going to start. Recently added to my list was:





Taue/Jumbo vs Kawada/Misawa. My thoughts stolen from another thread:

"I watched the 12/7/90 match they had last night and that was way better than the draw. It was only 22 minutes I believe but it was also one of the very best matches I've ever seen. I was going to throw it at ****3/4 but I can't think of a reason it wouldn't be in the upper echelon of my 5* match list. If I had to throw a % at it I'd say 96%. 



Spoiler: for if you want to watch first



Starts with Jumbo taking a cheap shot on Misawa and Taue taking a cheap shot on Kawada within the first couple minutes and then Kawada going ape shit on Taue. Half way through Jumbo takes an elbow knocking him out of the match for 5 minutes or so while Taue gets mauled and then keeping him from getting a tag after Jumbo gets up. It's actually the first time I've heard a crowd boo both Kawada and Misawa. Jumbo finally gets the tag and is angrier than I've ever seen him just taking destroying them. There are lots of "Oh's" to be had while he's pissed as well. At some point there's an awesome spot where Misawa somehow ends up on the apron on Jumbo's side of the ring while Kawada's in trouble and Taue goes for a lariat on Kawada but runs into a sick Misawa elbow, this was just brilliant. My only qualm is that Jumbo's comeback was not complete as they ended up dropping the match. This match makes me rethink my MOTY that I have as Jumbo/Misawa from 6/8."



My matches that are absolutely 5* (imo of course):

*ROH:*
Joe vs Kobashi
Bryan vs KENTA - GBH V Night 2
Punk vs Joe - Punk/Joe II & All Star Extravaganza II
Do Fixer vs Blood Generation - SuperCard of Honor
Morishima vs Bryan - Manahattan Mayhem II
Bryan vs London - Epic Encounter
Bryan vs Nigel - 6th Anniversary Show
Nigel vs Aries - Rising Above 2007
Briscoes vs Steenerico - Ladder match - Man Up
BJ Whitmer vs Jimmy Jacobs - Cage match - SuperCard of Honor II

*PWG:*
Young Bucks vs Super Smash Bros - Death to all but Metal
Young Bucks vs Super Smash Bros vs Future Shock - Ladder match - Threemendous III
Steen vs Generico - Ladder match - Steen Wolf
Elgin/Cage/Steen vs Ricochet/Swann/Fox - ASW 9 Night 2

*Dragon Gate USA:*
Richards vs Shingo

*WWE:*
Bret vs Austin - WM 13
Edge/Rey vs Angle/Benoit - No Mercy 2002
Punk vs Cena - MitB
Angle vs Austin - SummerSlam '01
HBK vs Undertaker - WM 25
TLC II & III
HBK vs Benoit vs HHH - WM 20
Austin/HHH vs Benoit/Jericho - 5/21/01

*NWA/WCW*
Flair vs Steamboat - Chi-Town Rumble & Clash & Wrestle War
Flair vs Funk - Great American Bash & Clash
Psychosis vs Rey - Bash at the Beach '96
Eddie vs Rey - Halloween Havoc '97

*TNA*
Joe vs Styles vs Daniels - Unbreakable 2005

*AJPW:*
Jumbo vs Tenryu - 6/5/89
Jumbo vs Misawa - 6/8/90
Jumbo/Taue vs Misawa/Kawada - 12/7/90
Kawada vs Misawa - 6/3/94
Kawada/Taue vs Misawa/Kobashi - 12/3/93 & & 5/21/94 & 6/9/95 (GOAT match and not close)
Kawada vs Hansen - 2/28/93
Jumbo/Taue/Fuchi vs Kawada/Kobashi/Misawa - 4/20/91
Misawa vs Kobashi - 1/20/97
Kobashi/Kikuchi vs Can-Ams - 5/25/92
Hansen vs Kobashi - 7/29/93
Taue vs Misawa - 4/15/95
Sasaki vs Kawada - 10/9/00
Kawada vs Tenryu - 10/28/00

*NOAH*
Misawa vs Kobashi - 3/1/03
Kobashi vs Sasaki - 7/18/05

*NJPW:*
Okada vs Naito - 3/4/12
Okada vs Tanahashi - 6/16/12
Okada vs Tanahashi - 4/7/13
MiSu vs Tanahashi - 10/8/12
Goto vs Tanahashi - 11/11/07 & 6/18/10
Iizuka/Nagata vs Kawada/Fuchi - 12/14/00
Shinjiro Ohtani vs Ultimo Dragon - 8/4/96
El Samurai vs Kanemoto - 6/5/97
Jushin Liger vs Shinjiro Ohtani - 2/9/97
Jushin Liger vs Great Sasuke - 7/8/94

There are definitely others that I just don't have written down and can't think of atm and others that I need to rewatch.


----------



## Chismo

Damn, I'm ashamed I've never seen that Tana/Goto '07 match. bama2


----------



## Obfuscation

So someone liked Okada vs Naito 3/4/12 more than me. Didn't think it was possible on this board. :hmm:

Match is unreal. Ask me why I don't have it at the full five stars right now. I can't give you a reason. That should change...


----------



## CM Punk Is A God

I'll just name one.. Eddie Edwards vs. Davey Richards at Best in the World 2011, name a match that can beat that.


----------



## Obfuscation

^Everything.


----------



## CM Punk Is A God

Obfuscation said:


> ^Everything.


You obviously didn't see it.


----------



## Obfuscation

Three times.


----------



## Flux

CM Punk Is A God said:


> I'll just name one.. Eddie Edwards vs. Davey Richards at Best in the World 2011, name a match that can beat that.


What makes this match better than almost everything else? I'm interested


----------



## CM Punk Is A God

FluxCapacitor said:


> What makes this match better than almost everything else? I'm interested


It was just 40 minutes of great wrestling. Not many people can name a match better if they've seen it, and it was match of the year in 2011

Here's the match if you want to watch it.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xmp3ob_eddie-davey-best-in-the-world_sport#.UZzWOqK-pMc


----------



## seabs

*People who don't like that style of match don't have a problem finding a better match. I get the allure of it if that's your thing. There's still better matches that work a rapid pace based around moves and competitiveness. *


----------



## flag sabbath

I could spend the rest of my life naming matches that are better than that tepid clusterfuck, but I'd rather spend it watching them.


----------



## BJDouglas

sooooo many


----------



## bigbuxxx

Obfuscation said:


> So someone liked Okada vs Naito 3/4/12 more than me. Didn't think it was possible on this board. :hmm:
> 
> Match is unreal. Ask me why I don't have it at the full five stars right now. I can't give you a reason. That should change...


I just can't see that match not having 5*. It was amazing. I think Okada/Tanahashi on 4/7/13 is only ever so slightly ahead and I feel comfortable saying that's the best match of the 2000's. I'd go something like:

Okada/Tanahashi - 4/7/13
Okada/Naito - 4/3/12
Joe/Kobashi
HBK/Undertaker - WM 25
Kobashi/Misawa - 3/1/03


----------



## flag sabbath

No idea whether it's been mentioned already, but I recently re-watched the ROH vs. CZW Cage of Death and it's a multi-man grudge match masterpiece, up there with the best of the War Games. The intensity & hatred are there from the first exchange between Joe & Claudio and they somehow manage to steadily ramp it up for over 40 minutes worth of expertly executed twists & turns. Gabe could have played safe by taking it home when Homicide comes to the rescue & the home fans are at their most expectant, but the mayhem continues to build to an insanely violent crescendo. Five stars, no question.


----------



## bigbuxxx

I love that match and I flip flop between ****1/2 and 5* on that. Whatever though, it's pretty fucking epic. Same can be said for the 6-man from the 100th show between ROH and CZW.


----------



## Goku

Should I try watching Edwards/Richards? Will I hate it?


----------



## THECHAMPION

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Should I try watching Edwards/Richards? Will I hate it?


If you have taste.


----------



## Bubz

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Should I try watching Edwards/Richards? Will I hate it?


I wouldn't watch it. Its that typical type of match that gives the Indies a bad name, although its not the worst offender by any means.


----------



## Chismo

flag sabbath said:


> No idea whether it's been mentioned already, but I recently re-watched the ROH vs. CZW Cage of Death and it's a multi-man grudge match masterpiece, up there with the best of the War Games. The intensity & hatred are there from the first exchange between Joe & Claudio and they somehow manage to steadily ramp it up for over 40 minutes worth of expertly executed twists & turns. Gabe could have played safe by taking it home when Homicide comes to the rescue & the home fans are at their most expectant, but the mayhem continues to build to an insanely violent crescendo. Five stars, no question.


I remember being really bothered by few things about that match. Don't remember what the things are, though. But I remember the rating: ***3/4.


----------



## Obfuscation

bigbuxxx said:


> I just can't see that match not having 5*. It was amazing. I think Okada/Tanahashi on 4/7/13 is only ever so slightly ahead and I feel comfortable saying that's the best match of the 2000's. I'd go something like:
> 
> Okada/Tanahashi - 4/7/13
> Okada/Naito - 4/3/12
> Joe/Kobashi
> HBK/Undertaker - WM 25
> Kobashi/Misawa - 3/1/03


I could see myself preferring Okada vs Tanahashi IV over it. Match had so many moments I adored. Comparing the two back to back sounds like one insanely entertaining way to kill an hour.

Joe vs Kobashi. Ah yes. So many can try and top it, but not much will for me.



flag sabbath said:


> No idea whether it's been mentioned already, but I recently re-watched the ROH vs. CZW Cage of Death and it's a multi-man grudge match masterpiece, up there with the best of the War Games. The intensity & hatred are there from the first exchange between Joe & Claudio and they somehow manage to steadily ramp it up for over 40 minutes worth of expertly executed twists & turns. Gabe could have played safe by taking it home when Homicide comes to the rescue & the home fans are at their most expectant, but the mayhem continues to build to an insanely violent crescendo. Five stars, no question.


(Y)


----------



## Corey

Gonna hop into this thread with a couple random copy and paste posts. The first defending Davey vs. Eddie from BITW 2011 because I love the match quite a bit (80% of it at least) and don't think it deserves to be shat on so hard. The 2nd of which is a long match review of an incredible spectacle that I rates 5*:

I just rewatched *Davey vs. Eddie* from *Best in the World 2011*. Still gonna call it close to a classic. It's no longer 5* for me, but there is A LOT to love, imo. The beginning moments with the scouting of each other and their signature strikes was great & the slew of absolutely beautiful counters and transitions are a sight to see. There were a couple times where I actually grimaced myself at some of the spots, like the double stomp where Eddie's leg is caught in the ropes. My fucking god there's no way he could breathe after that. For about 80% of the match there was always a story of it being Wolf vs. Wolf in a sense that there was the occasional remorse from Davey but they both knew they had to do whatever it took to win and prove who the better man was, along with someone's leg usually being a focal point of major offense (mostly Eddie). The very minor gripes I have basically all occur in the last few minutes. It did tap into overkill & the constant strikes became too much at times, but that doesn't take away from the previous 25-30 minutes where both guys absolutely busted their asses to put on an amazing performance in the main event in one of the most emotionally draining ROH shows in history (keep in mind what happened earlier in the show with Steen & The Briscoes attack as well) Rating wise, I believe I'll stick with ***** 1/2*. I'll be happy to further discuss the match because I know there's some haters out there. 

--------------------------------------------------

*Mask vs. Mask 
*Villano III vs. Atlantis - *****
_CMLL 3/17/2000

_
- Villano III vs. Atlantis, Mask vs. Mask. WOW. Where to start? An absolutely incredible atmosphere, fans cheering for both men, I'm sure out of respect, but Atlantis was the clear babyface here. At first I thought their age really started to show and some of their transitions were lookin slow as hell, but that thought was killed in an instant. The spot that created so much blood could be taken two ways; either ridiculous or genius. I personally thought it was genius. Villano hits a tope suicida to the outside but both men bump heads. It's clear you can see the ref hand Villano a blade, but I don't care, the man cut himself INSIDE of his mask, I can't imagine how much of his vision had to be impaired. Atlantis on the other hand, motherfucker bled buckets. When they finally recovered from the spot, the way Villano portrayed not having his equilibrium about him and ensued to just grab anything he could and kick & elbow it was brilliant. Literally everything from that point on was pure magic. The way Villano would essentially wanna force Atlantis to quit to any submission he locked in was great, the way Atlantis would escape and just grab whatever he could and lock in a submission of his own was even better, and some of the counters & transitions were on of a level entirely on their own. The spot where Villano has that octopus stretch locked in but Atlantis grabs an leg to transition over into a stretch muffler pinning attempt, which then led into that AMAZING show of strength with Atlantis muscling the bigger man up into another of Villano's amazing pin attempts was just breathtaking. Also the image of Atlantis having the Mexican stretch locked in and blood is just pouring out of his head all over Villano's back is mesmerizing. I thought the finish was superb. Atlantis's reaction when his grip slips out of the first attempt followed up with the overall reaction from the crowd and the commentators was beautiful, only for him to have another opportunity to lock it in and NOT let go this time as he sits down and gets the gratifying victory to an AMAZING response from the crowd. Such an emotional scene postmatch. Tears, smiles, jubilation in the crowd. I don't speak Spanish but I'm sure everything Villano was saying was full of pride and dignity, and he relinquished the mask with no displeasure. What a professional. What a match. What a performance. I bought into so many of the nearfalls in the late stages, the slow counts were NUTS. Please check this one out if you haven't. One of the best matches I've ever seen obviously. It really shows you don't have to take 4000 risks and fly all over the place to create excitement, drama, and suspense. A masterpiece. Thanks for giving it a shout, WOOLCOCK.


----------



## Obfuscation

Couldn't disagree so much more about the Davey vs Eddie match. But, there is no point to debate. I hate it, so much. The last time I watched it was to give me something to laugh at. _(so make that four times, I've seen it.)_ I legit took 35 minutes out of my life to watch for comedic purposes. That tells you how I feel about the match. The promo post match is 100x funnier.

You've sold me otherwise on Villano III vs Atlantis. Review got me all jazzed up to experience the bloody glory it has to offer.


----------



## bigbuxxx

I lucked into a gold mine today. I'm doing a Kobashi project because he's fucking awesome. I wrote down all his matches that are rated ****1/4+ and d/l'ed them and going through them. Today I get to his match w/Misawa and Kawada vs Taue/Jumbo/Fuchi on 5/22/92. I was watching and said to myself "this is one of the best things I've ever seen in my life, how is it not 5*?". After the match I check it out and it is a 5* match by Meltzer's standards but I'd just never watched it. The match is totally atypical of 90's AJPW style and is incredible. I urge everybody to go out of their way and watch it. The hate in this match is awesome.


----------



## WrestlingOracle

My criteria: storytelling, clean execution of both wrestlers throughout, signnificance, psychology, workrate (though low on my criteria), how thrilling the match was and when applicable I consider if the match has stood the test of time. I dont take 5 star lightly so many great classic matches dont make my cut, yet some of you will certainly have harsher criteria for 5 stars than me. Also note that to me a carry job or borderline carry job is not a 5 star match ala Hart/Bulldog Summerslam. Note that I am currrently a novice at CMILL and haven't watched alot of Dragon Gate/Chikara/Pro Wrestling Guerrilla so I won't have any in my list. For sake of familiarity to the majority of the board, my starting point is 1985 for WWE and 1990 for puro. Plese dont flame me, but if you have a beef or an argument pm me. 



WWE: Steamboat/Savage WM 3 (wouldnt be a 5 star match if it happened today, but in its time it sure is) 
Rude/Roberts on Superstars in circa 1988 (this match is super simple, but an clinic showing that the story of a match is far more important than high spots in great wrestling) 
Hart/Owen WM 10
Hart/Michaels WM 12 
Austin/Hart WM 13
Taker/Michaels first HIAC
I am in heavy debate if Rock/Austin WM 17 is 5 or 4.5
Angle/Benoit RR 2003
Michaels/Angle WM 21
At the moment i consider Angle/Taker at now way out 2006 5 stars, though I flip flop on this through rewatches
Taker/HBK WM 25 


NWA
Flair/Sting Clash 88 is one that I am borderline on. This one is subjective to how much you think Flair led this match)
Flair/Funk I quit 89
Clash of champs Flair Steamboat
The Midnight Express vs the Fantastics at the first COC is another borderline one for me

WCW:
Guerrero/Mysterio Halloween Havoc 97
Benoit/Hart 1998 Owen tribute ( not near as significant as many others on my list but beautiful poetry made in this match)

ECW:
Malenko/Guerrero farewell match
RVD/Jerry Lynn living dangerously 99 (If there is a match that pioneers the x division and is a perfect balance of technical/spot monkey/hardcore trash wrestling than this is it. I am probably the only one who would give this 5 stars but again this whole list is my personal opinion I am not making anyone agree im just sharing it.) 

TNA:
Joe/AJ/Daniels Unbreakable

ROH: Punk/Joe 2 (note: I love samoa Joe's underrated early on ring work and boy do i like me some Kobashi, but their match in roh while great has never struck me as 5 stars)

KENTA/Danielson Glory by Honor (danielson/London barely misses my cut)

AJPW: 
Jumbo/Misawa 1990 (one of the most important in wrestling history and a masterpiece in ofitself) 
Kawada/Misawa June of 94 (in my opinion the greatest wrestling match of all time)
Taue/Kawada vs Misawa/Kobashi 6/9/95
Kobashi Misawa 1/20/97


NJPW
I do belive the match where a pissed liger wrestles with pretty much one hand after sano destroyed it in the last bout and where liger does the first ever ssp was in 90 and not 89 so if so that match goes here

Liger/Sasuke Super J cup 1994 (aka the greatest in ring wrestling tournament of all time and one of the most important)

Sasuke/Pegasus (Benoit) same card
Muta/Liger 1996 
Koji/El Samurai 97
It is early to declare Okada Tanahashi 5 stars, but it is a hell of a match and for now will be 5.

NOAH- (a company with alot of excellent nearly 5 star matches imo) 
Misawa/Kobashi 2003


----------



## Martins

KENTA VS Low Ki at Final Battle 2005 is a match I just can't get tired of rewatching. That shit is absolutely brutal. ***** for me.


----------



## bigfire20

WWE

Triple H vs. Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania 20
Kurt Angle vs. Shawn Michaels Wrestlemania 21
Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker (Bad Blood 1997)
Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart Wrestlemania 10
Edge/Rey vs. Angle/Benoit (No Mercy 2002)
Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels Wrestlemania 24
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit Royal Rumble 2003
Shawn Michaels Vs Undertaker Wrestlemania 25
Bret Hart vs. Mr Perfect - King of the Ring 1993
Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho - Wrestlemania 19
Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart - Wrestlemania 13
Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels Wrestlemania 12
Mankind vs Shawn Michaels - Mind Games
Bret Hart vs British Bulldog - Summerslam 1992
Razor Ramon vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania 10 
Shawn Michaels vs Triple H - Summerslam 2002
Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar Iron Man Match WWE Smackdown


----------



## bigbuxxx

I'm going to add Shibata vs Ishii from 8/4/13 to my list. As I said in the puro thread it's "OMFG out of 5 stars". It's like Nakamura/Sakuraba from 1/4 on crack.


----------



## Chismo

bigbuxxx said:


> I'm going to add Shibata vs Ishii from 8/4/13 to my list. As I said in the puro thread it's "OMFG out of 5 stars". It's like Nakamura/Sakuraba from 1/4 on crack.


Same. MOTY.


----------



## Rick Sanchez

*WWE*
Randy Savage vs. Ricky Steamboat - Wrestlemania 3
Bret Hart vs British Bulldog - SummerSlam 1992
Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect - King of the Ring 1993
Razor Ramon vs. Shawn Michaels - Ladder Match, Wrestlemania 10
Bret Hart vs Owen Hart - Wrestlemania 10
Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels - Iron Man Match, Wrestlemania 12
Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin - I Quit Match, Wrestlemania 13
Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels - Hell in a Cell Match, Badd Blood 1997
The Rock vs. Steve Austin - Wrestlemania 17
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit - Royal Rumble 2003
Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho - Wrestlemania 19
Triple H vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit - Wrestlemania 20
Kurt Angle vs. Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania 21
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels - Raw, April 23, 2007
Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania 25
John Cena vs. CM Punk - Money in the Bank 2011

*WCW*
Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat - Chi-Town Rumble
Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat - Clash of the Champions VI
Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat - WrestleWar '89
Ric Flair vs. Terry Funk - I Quit Match, Clash of the Champions IX
The Great Muta vs. Arn Anderson - 1/2/90
Jushin Liger vs. Brian Pillman - Superbrawl 2
Ricky Steamboat vs. Rick Rude - Iron Man Match, Beach Blast '92
Sting's Squadron vs. The Dangerous Alliance - WarGames, WrestleWar '92
Jushin Liger & Brian Pillman vs. Chris Benoit & Beef Wellington - Clash of the Champions XIX
Ric Flair Vs. Ricky Steamboat - Spring Stampede '94
Ricky Steamboat vs. Steve Austin - Clash of the Champions XXVIII
Chris Benoit vs. Eddie Guerrero - Nitro, 10/16/95
Eddie Guerrero vs. Shinjiro Otani - Starrcade '95
Dean Malenko vs. Rey Misterio Jr. - Great American Bash '96
Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho - Fall Brawl '96
Ultimo Dragon vs. Rey Mysterio - World War III '96
Ultimo Dragon vs. Dean Melenko - Starrcade '96
Eddie Guerrero vs. Dean Melenko - Uncensored '97
Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Jericho - Fall Brawl '97
Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio - Halloween Havoc '97
Bret Hart Vs. Chris Benoit - Nitro, 10/4/99


----------



## Craig

I'd need to sit and dig through my puro and indy ratings because I honestly can't remember on them, however I did find some rather lovely lists I made up before and used them to work out my WWF/E and WCW lists.

WWE
Mankind Vs Shawn Michaels - Mind Games
Steve Austin Vs The Undertaker Vs Bret Hart Vs Vader - Final Four
Steve Austin Vs Bret Hart - Wrestlemania 13
Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels - Badd Blood 1997
HHH Vs Ric Flair- Taboo Tuesday 05
Shawn Michaels Vs The Undertaker - Wrestlemania 25
John Cena Vs CM Punk - Money In The Bank 2011
CM Punk Vs Daniel Bryan - Over The Limit 2012

WCW
Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat - Chi-Town Rumble
Ric Flair vs. Terry Funk - Great American Bash 89
Ricky Steamboat vs. Rick Rude - Iron Man Match, Beach Blast '92
Sting's Squadron vs. The Dangerous Alliance - WarGames, WrestleWar '92
Ric Flair Vs Vader - Starrcade 1993
Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio - Halloween Havoc '97
DDP Vs Goldberg - Halloween Havoc 1998

FMW

Megumi Kudo Vs Combat Toyoda - 5/5/96

Then there's my coveted *************************** list, only one match goes there:

MECHA MUMMY Vs Minoru Suzuki - THE REMATCH - 5/4/09


----------



## tboneangle

any updates?


----------



## Violent By Design

Random bump, been tracking through some classics.

Anyone got a link/acess to Valentine vs Backlund from 79?


Btw, anyone put any recent updates on their list? Any one got Okada/Tanashi matches on there 5 star lists?


----------



## bigbuxxx

My favorite thread on the interwebs :cheer :cheer :cheer

Yeah, I have Tanahashi/Okada @ Invasion Attack as way more than 5 stars. Also have their 6/16/12 match at 5*. Their KoPW match I've never rated but just sat and marked through it many times.


----------



## Bruce L

I had Okada/Tanahashi's two non-Wrestle Kingdom title matches from last year at the full five, but I'm not sure if I added them to my posted list.

*Updated: *Just added both to my list, as well as a couple others I was surprised weren't on there, and took off a couple that I re-watched recently and downgraded by half a star or so.


----------



## Chismo

The most recent match I rated five stars:






It's a picture perfect tag. I've seen it few years ago, had it around ****1/2. Then I stumbled upon it a week or two back, and was so blown away I had to watch it two times in a row. Incredible Budokan tag that reminded on other incredible Budokan tags from the 90s. It doesn't have years of deep storytelling behind itself like the tags from 90s, but it doesn't matter, the match fucking rocks. Absolutely EVERYONE shines in this match, even Rikio. When you see Rikio's performance here, it becomes clear why they chose him to be next great once back in 2005. Sugiura as a punching bag is an incredibly amusing watch from today's perspective.


- - - - - -

I have to rewatch the entire Tanahashi/Okada series at some point, but as it stands now, I have their WK 7 and Invasion Attack matches at *****. Dominion and KOPW at ****3/4. G1 Climax at ****1/2, The New Beginning at ****1/4.


----------



## xdoomsayerx

WWE only. 7 out of the 17 years I've watched. 

HBK vs Undertaker HIAC 97

Steve Austin vs Bret Hart WM 13

TLC II WM 17

HHH vs Chris Beniot vs HBK WM 20

Undertaker vs Kurt Angle NWO 06

HBK vs The Undertaker WM 25

CM Punk vs Brock Lesnar SS 13


----------



## Chismo

Bumping this for two updates:










I want to have sex with these two matches.


----------



## LBThrizzy

Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker WM 25
CM Punk vs John Cena MITB 2011
Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker Bad Blood 97
Austin vs Hart WM 13
Tanahashi vs. Okada last year. I can't remember which one. Maybe the second time.
Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind (In Your House)
Shawn Michaels vs Bret Hart WM 12


----------



## bigbuxxx

Added this one to my list recently in my spurt of Kobashi watching: 
06/28/92 Misawa & Kobashi vs. Tsuruta & Taue (World Tag)

The heat in this match is off the charts. The wrestling is superb. Comes in as my 60th 5* match I believe.


----------



## NastyYaffa

*WWF/E*
• Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin - _Wrestlemania 13_
• Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker - _In Your House: Badd Blood_
• Steve Austin vs. The Rock - _Wrestlemania 17_
• Steve Austin vs. Chris Benoit - _SmackDown_ _05/31/01_
• Eddie Guerrero vs. Brock Lesnar - _No Way Out 2004_
• Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker - _Wrestlemania 25_
• Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker - _Wrestlemania 26_
• CM Punk vs. John Cena - _Money In The Bank 2011_
• CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan - _Over the Limit 2012_
• CM Punk vs. Brock Lesnar - _SummerSlam 2013_
• Daniel Bryan vs. John Cena - _SummerSlam 2013_
• The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family - _Elimination Chamber 2014_
• Daniel Bryan vs. Triple H - _Wrestlemania 30_

*ROH*
• Bryan Danielson vs. Low Ki - _Round Robin Challenge_
• Bryan Danielson vs. Paul London - _The Epic Encounter_
• Samoa Joe vs. CM Punk - _Joe vs. Punk II_
• Samoa Joe vs. Kenta Kobashi - _Joe vs. Kobashi_
• Bryan Danielson vs. Roderick Strong - _Vendetta_
• KENTA vs. Low Ki - _Final Battle 2005_
• Team ROH vs. Team CZW - _Death Before Dishonor IV_
• Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness - _Unified_
• Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA - _Glory By Honor V, Night 2_
• Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness - _Driven_
• Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima - _Manhattan Mayhem II_
• Austin Aries vs. Nigel McGuinness - _Rising Above 2007_
• Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness - _6th Anniversary Show_
• Nigel McGuinness vs. Tyler Black - _Take No Prisoners_
• The American Wolves vs. Bryan Danielson & Tyler Black - _Tag Title Classic_

*DGUSA*
• Bryan Danielson vs. SHINGO - _Enter the Dragon 2010_

*NJPW*
• Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Minoru Suzuki - _King of Pro-Wrestling 2012_
• Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Kazuchika Okada - _Invasion Attack 2013_
• AJ Styles vs. Minoru Suzuki - _G1 Climax 24_
• Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Kota Ibushi - _Wrestle Kingdom 9_
• Kazuchika Okada vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi - _Wrestle Kingdom 10_


----------



## EscapedIllusion

So far nothing from this year,I pretty sure Ishii and Ibushi will probably come close though.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Super Sonic

Only including stuff I've watched in the past couple years, as I don't completely trust my judgment prior to that. Thus, this is VERY limited.

WWE:
Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin - WrestleMania 13

ROH:
Low Ki vs. Bryan Danielson - Round Robin Challenge
Paul London vs. Bryan Danielson - The Epic Encounter
AJ Styles vs. Paul London - Night of the Grudges
Samoa Joe vs. Bryan Danielson - Midnight Express Reunion
Samoa Joe vs. CM Punk - Joe vs. Punk II
Samoa Joe vs. CM Punk - All Star Extravaganza II
Samoa Joe vs. Kenta Kobashi - Joe vs. Kobashi
Bryan Danielson vs. Roderick Strong - Vendetta

NOAH:
Kenta Kobashi vs. Yoshihiro Takayama - April 25, 2004


----------



## tboneangle

I just recently met ric flair so im watching a lot of his stuff.

What would u guys rate at 5 stars for him?

I have

Clash vs steamboat
Wrestlewar vs boat
I quit vs funk
Crockett cup vs whindham
Vs Harley race first starrcade
Vs HHH survivor series 
Vs sting fir clashpp



Also what bret matches do u guys have at 5?


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life

vs. Steamboat at MCS and WW
vs. Funk at GAB and their Clash match
vs. Windham at Battle of the Belts II


----------



## tboneangle

Thanks. Any more bret hart or ric flair ****3/4-***** matches?


----------



## NastyYaffa

edit: Nothing really


----------



## Kabraxal

If this was 4 or 4 and a half stars this would take a while... but I consider 5 stars to be the pinnacle, the moment when everything came together in terms of a great match, a great build, and a great finish with just.. something special over it all that just pulls you in completely to lose yourself in the magic. There have beeen many great and amazing matches but there have been only 2 where I was so pulled into the match at the time everything about the business except that match faded away... and those two matches do it every tim I watch them. 

The Ultimate Challenge: Hogan/Warrior at Wrestlemania VI. Everything about that match is perfect... pacing, moves, energy, commentating, and ending. It was lightning in a bottle. Whenever I watch this match, it's 1990 all over again for me. And I never thought it would have an actual challenger for the title of greatest match ever...

Money in the Bank 2011: Cena/Punk. That one month was probably the greatest build in wrestling history... period. You had a guy that finally was speaking for the audience in many ways challenge the dynasty. What we got was a match that was purely insane and amazing from start to finish. This match is probably the only real reason I am still watching the WWE... they pulled an instant all time classic in the middle of its worst era. It keeps hope alive...


----------



## Super Sonic

Only including stuff I've watched in the past couple years, as I don't completely trust my judgment prior to that. Thus, this is VERY limited.

WWE:
Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin - WrestleMania 13

ROH:
Low Ki vs. Bryan Danielson - Round Robin Challenge
Paul London vs. Bryan Danielson - The Epic Encounter
AJ Styles vs. Paul London - Night of the Grudges
Samoa Joe vs. Bryan Danielson - Midnight Express Reunion
Samoa Joe vs. CM Punk - Joe vs. Punk II
Samoa Joe vs. CM Punk - All Star Extravaganza II
Samoa Joe vs. Kenta Kobashi - Joe vs. Kobashi
Bryan Danielson vs. Roderick Strong - Vendetta
CIMA & Speed Muscle vs. Dragon Kid, Ryo Saito, & Genki Horiguchi - Supercard of Honor

NOAH:
Kenta Kobashi vs. Yoshihiro Takayama - April 25, 2004


----------



## BillThompson

I'm a glutton for punishment, so I'll include my list. But, keep in mind it's limited to matches I've seen since I started watching wrestling again this year, 

1) National Wrestling Alliance: Starrcade ’85 (11-28-1985) Magnum TA vs. Tully Blanchard
2) All-Japan Women’s Pro Wrestling: Nippon Budokan (08-22-1985) Jaguar Yokota vs. Lioness Asuka
3) National Wrestling Alliance: Chi-Town Rumble (02-20-1989) Ricky Steamboat vs. Ric Flair
4) World Championship Wrestling: WrestleWar ’92 (05-17-1992) Dangerous Alliance (Arn Anderson, Beautiful
Bobby, Larry Zbyszko, Rick Rude, & Steve Austin) vs. Sting’s Squadron (Barry Windham, Dustin Rhodes,
Nikita Koloff, Ricky Steamboat, & Sting)
5) World Wrestling Federation: WrestleMania 13 (03-23-1997) Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart
6) World Wrestling Entertainment: Royal Rumble ’03 (01-19-2003) Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle


----------



## Loudon Wainwright

Dean Malenko vs. Chris Benoit Hog Wild 1996 
 

Dean Malenko vs. Eddie Guerrero 2 out of 3 falls


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life

Both of those suck gigantic dicks. I highly doubt you're 13 as you claim you are if you're turned on by those matches.


----------



## El Dylan

Only WWF/E and NWA/WCW :

Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat - Chi-Town Rumble 1989
Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat (2 out of 3 Falls) - Clash Of The Champions VI
Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat - Wrestlewar 1989
Owen Hart vs Bret Hart - Wrestlemania 10
Triple H vs Cactus Jack (Street Fight) - Royal Rumble 2000
Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho (Ladder Match) - No Mercy 2008
CM Punk vs John Cena - Money In The Bank 2011


----------



## Concrete

StuckInHell4-Life said:


> Both of those suck gigantic dicks. I highly doubt you're 13 as you claim you are if you're turned on by those matches.


RUDE!

Ah, I don't know if I'll ever really have the time do try and find out my all time faves. Magnum TA vs Tully is there right now but who knows if that'd ever dip below #1.


----------



## BrutusIsNotMyName

John Cena Vs. CM Punk @ MITB 2011
CM Punk Vs. Daniel Bryan @ OTL 2012
Undertaker Vs. Shawn Michaels @ WM 25
TLC @ WM 17
Shawn Michaels Vs. Chris Jericho @ WM XIX

Edit:I found the TLC match at Wrestlemania much more entertaining than HHH Vs. Austin @ NWO 2001


----------



## NastyYaffa

Edit: Nevermind.


----------



## Chismo

From this year:

Virus/Titan (CMLL 1/28)







Nakamura/Tanahashi (NJPW Invasion Attack)




Styles/Suzuki (NJPW G1 Climax 8/1)


----------



## USAUSA1

Ultimo Guerrero vs Atlantis mask vs mask


----------



## IAmLegend12.21.12

*ROH*

Austin Aries Vs Nigel McGuinness | ROH Rising Above 2007

Davey Richards Vs Eddie Edwards | ROH Best In The World 2011

Bryan Danielson Vs Nigel McGuinness | ROH Unified 2006

Bryan Danielson Vs KENTA | ROH Glory By Honor V 2006 - Night II

*DG USA*

Naruki Doi Vs Bryan Danielson | DG USA Untouchable 2009

*NOAH* 

KENTA & Taiji Ishimori Vs Naomichi Marufuji & Kota Ibushi | NOAH Summer Navigation 2007 - Day 12

Naomichi Marufuji Vs KENTA | NOAH Autumn Navigation 2006 - Day 15

*WWE*

Kurt Angle Vs Shawn Michaels | WWE WrestleMania 21

Chris Benoit Vs Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels | WWE WrestleMania XX

Kurt Angle Vs Chris Benoit | WWE Royal Rumble 2003

Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit Vs Rey Mysterio & Edge | WWE No Mercy 2002

Triple H Vs Steve Austin | WWF No Way Out 2001

Triple H Vs Cactus Jack | WWF Royal Rumble 2000

*WCW*

Rey Misterio Jr. Vs Eddy Guerrero | WCW Halloween Havoc 1997

Brian Pillman Vs Jushin Liger | WCW SuperBrawl II 1992

*TNA* 

Austin Aries Vs Bobby Roode | TNA Destination X 2012


----------



## BKKsoulcity

Not 5 stars but I didn't appreciate the Punk and Taker match until I rewatched it last night. Pretty epic match except I wish we had atleast one nearfall after a GTS or something. Don't think anybody was going to buy the streak being broken off a dirty shot to the back with the URN


----------



## NastyYaffa

BKKsoulcity said:


> Not 5 stars but I didn't appreciate the Punk and Taker match until I rewatched it last night. Pretty epic match except I wish we had atleast one nearfall after a GTS or something. Don't think anybody was going to buy the streak being broken off a dirty shot to the back with the URN


Yep, the match is great. The best streak match after the ones against HBK & HHH, imo.


----------



## BREEaments03

NastyYaffa said:


> Bumping this thread with this classic. *Am I the only one who thinks it's a 5-star classic? *Definitely one of my favorite WWE matches, EVER. It's beautiful.


yEP. i'VE WATCHED THAT MATCH COUNTLESS TIMES BUT i DON'T CONSIDER IT 5 STARS. yOU PUT fINLAY/bENOIT FROM jd 06 AT 5 STARS AS WELL, DON'T YOU?

i WOULD LIKE TO ADD ON TO MY LIST AT THIS TIME...hIROSHI tANAHASHI VS kATSUYORI sHIBATA ON 9/21/14. sIMPLY BRUTAL BACK AND FORTH BOUT THAT IS WORTHY OF AT LEAST FIVE STARS AND POSSIBLY MORE.

aLSO, kOBASHI VS kOBASHI FROM 1997 IS FIVE STARS.


----------



## Chismo

BREEaments03 said:


> yEP. i'VE WATCHED THAT MATCH COUNTLESS TIMES BUT i DON'T CONSIDER IT 5 STARS. yOU PUT fINLAY/bENOIT FROM jd 06 AT 5 STARS AS WELL, DON'T YOU?
> 
> i WOULD LIKE TO ADD ON TO MY LIST AT THIS TIME...hIROSHI tANAHASHI VS kATSUYORI sHIBATA ON 9/21/14. sIMPLY BRUTAL BACK AND FORTH BOUT THAT IS WORTHY OF AT LEAST FIVE STARS AND POSSIBLY MORE.
> 
> *aLSO, kOBASHI VS kOBASHI FROM 1997 IS FIVE STARS*.


:wow


----------



## NastyYaffa

What a classic. I know that most of the people like the match between Shibata & Ishii from the same show more, but for me, this match was better. One of my favorite NJPW matches, for sure. *****.


----------



## Super Sonic

Only including stuff I've watched in the past couple years, as I don't completely trust my judgment prior to that. Thus, this is VERY limited.

WWE:
Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin - WrestleMania 13

ROH:
Low Ki vs. Bryan Danielson - Round Robin Challenge
Paul London vs. Bryan Danielson - The Epic Encounter
AJ Styles vs. Paul London - Night of the Grudges
Samoa Joe vs. Bryan Danielson - Midnight Express Reunion
Samoa Joe vs. CM Punk - Joe vs. Punk II
Samoa Joe vs. CM Punk - All Star Extravaganza II
Samoa Joe vs. Kenta Kobashi - Joe vs. Kobashi
Bryan Danielson vs. Roderick Strong - Vendetta
CIMA & Speed Muscle vs. Dragon Kid, Ryo Saito, & Genki Horiguchi - Supercard of Honor
Homicide vs. Necro Butcher - Ring of Homicide

NOAH:
Kenta Kobashi vs. Yoshihiro Takayama - April 25, 2004


----------



## BKKsoulcity

I definitely need to do a rewatch on the Danielson and Kenta match as well because I didn't buy into all the hype when I first watched it without realizing I was missing the story behind the shoulder injury and etc.


----------



## NastyYaffa

BKKsoulcity said:


> I definitely need to do a rewatch on the Danielson and Kenta match as well because I didn't buy into all the hype when I first watched it without realizing I was missing the story behind the shoulder injury and etc.


My favorite match.


----------



## Super Sonic

Only including stuff I've watched in the past couple years, as I don't completely trust my judgment prior to that. Thus, this is VERY limited.

WWE:
Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin - WrestleMania 13

ROH:
Low Ki vs. Bryan Danielson - Round Robin Challenge
Paul London vs. Bryan Danielson - The Epic Encounter
AJ Styles vs. Paul London - Night of the Grudges
Samoa Joe vs. Bryan Danielson - Midnight Express Reunion
Samoa Joe vs. CM Punk - Joe vs. Punk II
Samoa Joe vs. CM Punk - All Star Extravaganza II
Samoa Joe vs. Kenta Kobashi - Joe vs. Kobashi
Bryan Danielson vs. Roderick Strong - Vendetta
CIMA & Speed Muscle vs. Dragon Kid, Ryo Saito, & Genki Horiguchi - Supercard of Honor
Homicide vs. Necro Butcher - Ring of Homicide
Cage of Death: Team ROH vs. Team CZW - Death Before Dishonor IV

NOAH:
Kenta Kobashi vs. Yoshihiro Takayama - April 25, 2004


----------



## Chismo

So, related to my post from the MOTYC thread, I decided to watch Honda/Togo (DDT Sweet Dreams 2011) for the first time in more than three years. Back then it was obvious the match fucking ruled, but for some reason it stayed under the radar all this time. I just done rewatching it, and shit, the match is fucking phenomenal, a masterpiece and my new MOTD, definitely the greatest DDT match ever, and if I were to make my Top 10 list right now, the match would land somewhere between 5 and 8, mos def. Like a fine red wine, this match is aging tremendously, it's getting better.

Someone with more patience and creativity than me could write humongous Homerlike epics about this cult classic, and while I strongly dislike long ass match reviews, I'd read anything about this one, hell, even play-by-play.  One of the most organic and creative title matches you'll ever see.

It's not on your usual streaming sites, you can d/l it from ditch's site. Honda/Togo:

:applause


----------



## Brock

*Dick Togo vs Antonio Honda (DDT 01.30.2011)*

x28cayb

Better late than never. 

EDIT: Chismo humbled?


----------



## BKKsoulcity

I believe the only true 5 star match I've ever watched and went like holy shit that's 5 stars no question about it and without Meltzer's influence was Okada vs. Tanahashi at Invasion Attack


----------



## Raindust

Sooo...I need to watch a lot of stuff (Mainly old Puro) but here goes my 5 star list so far. Will update it soon.

*
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada (NJPW Invasion Attack 2013) *****

Kazuchika Okada vs Hiroshi Tanahashi (NJPW King of Pro Wrestling 2013) *****

Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio Jr (WCW Halloween Havoc 1997) *****

Mitsuharu Misawa vs Kenta Kobashi (NOAH Navigate for Evolution 2003) *****

*


----------



## Smithy

As of right now.

*WWE:* 
Chris Benoit vs Triple H vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania 20
CM Punk vs John Cena - Money in the bank 2011

*NJPW:*
Katsuyori Shibata vs Tomohiro Ishii - G1 Climax 23 Day 4

*NOAH*
KENTA vs Naoimichi Marafuji - Autumn Navigation 2006 

Mitsuharu Misawa vs Kenta Kobashi - Navigate for evolution 2003


----------



## tboneangle

Posted this in wwe but also wanna get opinions here. But I'm curious to this. I'm about to watch the 1992 Royal Rumble which I hear is 5 stars. Now I keep a list of 5 star matches. And if I aggree that it is indeed 5 stars,should I give ALL 30 men that rating or just Flair? I see it both ways. On one hand they all play a part and are officially in the match. On the other hand what about the people who are there for 2 min or less? Also if there was ever a 5 star lumberjack match(which there would probably never be) I wouldn't give the Lumberjacks the prestige. Only the ones competing. I believe Scott Keith only gave the winner the recognition. Again kinda silly thread but it's been bugging me. Lol
Thoughts?


----------



## RKing85

The Rumble is one of those matches where no matter how good it is, you can't give it 5 stars based on a normal wrestling match. At least to me.

Like I could definitly say the 92 Rumble was a 5 star rumble, but I wouldn't call it a 5 star match.


----------



## BREEaments03

Angle, that's up to you. 

I agree with RK that Rumbles can't be rated. I can say "wow that was fucking awesome" (1992) or "jfc wtf did I just watch" (2014). But I'll never say it was x amount of stars.


----------



## NastyYaffa

Edit: Nevermind.


----------



## Martins

Is anyone in this thread still alive, even? This used to be the greatest fuckin' thing on this Forum ;_;


----------



## NastyYaffa

Martins said:


> Is anyone in this thread still alive, even? This used to be the greatest fuckin' thing on this Forum ;_;


I agree, this thread was/is great. Love reading it once in a while.

Anyways, here is my 5-star match list. I will probably soon do a re-watch project where I re-watch all of these, and see if they hold up.



Spoiler: The list



*WWF/E*
• Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin - _Wrestlemania 13_
• Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker - _In Your House: Badd Blood_
• Steve Austin vs. The Rock - _Wrestlemania 17_
• Steve Austin vs. Chris Benoit - _SmackDown_ _05/31/01_
• Eddie Guerrero vs. Brock Lesnar - _No Way Out 2004_
• Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker - _Wrestlemania 25_
• Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker - _Wrestlemania 26_
• CM Punk vs. John Cena - _Money In The Bank 2011_
• CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan - _Over the Limit 2012_
• CM Punk vs. Brock Lesnar - _SummerSlam 2013_
• Daniel Bryan vs. John Cena - _SummerSlam 2013_
• The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family - _Elimination Chamber 2014_
• Daniel Bryan vs. Triple H - _Wrestlemania 30_

*ROH*
• Bryan Danielson vs. Low Ki - _Round Robin Challenge_
• Bryan Danielson vs. Paul London - _The Epic Encounter_
• Samoa Joe vs. CM Punk - _Joe vs. Punk II_
• Samoa Joe vs. Kenta Kobashi - _Joe vs. Kobashi_
• Bryan Danielson vs. Roderick Strong - _Vendetta_
• KENTA vs. Low Ki - _Final Battle 2005_
• Team ROH vs. Team CZW - _Death Before Dishonor IV_
• Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness - _Unified_
• Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA - _Glory By Honor V, Night 2_
• Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness - _Driven_
• Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima - _Manhattan Mayhem II_
• Austin Aries vs. Nigel McGuinness - _Rising Above 2007_
• Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness - _6th Anniversary Show_
• Nigel McGuinness vs. Tyler Black - _Take No Prisoners_
• KENTA vs. Nigel McGuinness - _7th Anniversary Show_
• The American Wolves vs. Bryan Danielson & Tyler Black - _Tag Title Classic_

*DGUSA*
• Bryan Danielson vs. SHINGO - _Enter the Dragon 2010_

*NJPW*
• Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Minoru Suzuki - _King of Pro-Wrestling 2012_
• Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Kazuchika Okada - _Invasion Attack 2013_
• AJ Styles vs. Minoru Suzuki - _G1 Climax 24_
• Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Kota Ibushi - _Wrestle Kingdom 9_
• Kazuchika Okada vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi - _Wrestle Kingdom 10_


----------



## Martins

NastyYaffa said:


> I agree, this thread was/is great. Love reading it once in a while.
> 
> Anyways, here is my 5-star match list. I will probably soon do a re-watch project where I re-watch all of these, and see if they hold up.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: The list
> 
> 
> 
> *WWF/E*
> • Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin - _Wrestlemania 13_
> • Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker - _In Your House: Badd Blood_
> • Steve Austin vs. The Rock - _Wrestlemania 17_
> • Steve Austin vs. Chris Benoit - _SmackDown_ _05/31/01_
> • Eddie Guerrero vs. Brock Lesnar - _No Way Out 2004_
> • Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker - _Wrestlemania 25_
> • Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker - _Wrestlemania 26_
> • CM Punk vs. John Cena - _Money In The Bank 2011_
> • CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan - _Over the Limit 2012_
> • CM Punk vs. Brock Lesnar - _SummerSlam 2013_
> • Daniel Bryan vs. John Cena - _SummerSlam 2013_
> • The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family - _Elimination Chamber 2014_
> • Daniel Bryan vs. Triple H - _Wrestlemania 30_
> 
> *ROH*
> • Bryan Danielson vs. Low Ki - _Round Robin Challenge_
> • Bryan Danielson vs. Paul London - _The Epic Encounter_
> • Samoa Joe vs. CM Punk - _Joe vs. Punk II_
> • Samoa Joe vs. Kenta Kobashi - _Joe vs. Kobashi_
> • Bryan Danielson vs. Roderick Strong - _Vendetta_
> • KENTA vs. Low Ki - _Final Battle 2005_
> • Team ROH vs. Team CZW - _Death Before Dishonor IV_
> • Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness - _Unified_
> • Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA - _Glory By Honor V, Night 2_
> • Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness - _Driven_
> • Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima - _Manhattan Mayhem II_
> • Austin Aries vs. Nigel McGuinness - _Rising Above 2007_
> • Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness - _6th Anniversary Show_
> • Nigel McGuinness vs. Tyler Black - _Take No Prisoners_
> • KENTA vs. Nigel McGuinness - _7th Anniversary Show_
> • The American Wolves vs. Bryan Danielson & Tyler Black - _Tag Title Classic_
> 
> *DGUSA*
> • Bryan Danielson vs. SHINGO - _Enter the Dragon 2010_
> 
> *NJPW*
> • Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Minoru Suzuki - _King of Pro-Wrestling 2012_
> • Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Kazuchika Okada - _Invasion Attack 2013_
> • AJ Styles vs. Minoru Suzuki - _G1 Climax 24_
> • Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Kota Ibushi - _Wrestle Kingdom 9_
> • Kazuchika Okada vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi - _Wrestle Kingdom 10_


Sweet list. Have quite a few of those on my list, and some of those I haven't watched but plan to do so ASAP (when I get time that isn't spent studying, drinking or being hungover and plain dead lying on my bed), like Danielson/Shingo.

Just the other day I ended up reading almost the entirety of this thread, back ti the first 30-o0 pages where it's mostly awesome AJPW and old Puro discussion, plus tons of old territories stuff and loads of Flair, Funk and Lawler love, this is an incredible archive of great wrestling.

Last match I watched because of this thread was Hansen vs Andre from NJPW in 1981, and sure as hell, ended up giving it the full *****. 

It's absolutely fucking glorious: Andre working the shit out of the arm, looking like a total prick because he knows that while he's easily the larger guy, he's not so big that he can afford to take one of those goddamned Lariats; Hansen continuously coming back and them just beating the hell out of each other to the point that the match has to be restarted, and they just pound on each other even harder after that, it's amazing :lmao

It's awesomely structured in the way that some of the spots, while being great in themselves, clearly define the shifts in favour towards one of them. Someone made a longer and better review already for this match and I don't even think that's much further into the thread, so to whoever that was, thanks


----------



## Jonasolsson96

From the past 3 years 

Okada vs Tana - King of pro wrestling 2013 
Okada vs Tana - Invasion attack 2013 
Okada vs Tana - Wrestlekingdom 10 
Nakamura vs Ibushi - Wrestlekingdom 9 


Sami Zayn vs Cesaro - Arrival 
Sami Zayn vs Neville - R evolution 
Sasha Banks vs Bayley - Brooklyn


----------



## Martins

Jonasolsson96 said:


> From the past 3 years
> 
> Okada vs Tana - King of pro wrestling 2013
> Okada vs Tana - Invasion attack 2013
> Okada vs Tana - Wrestlekingdom 10
> Nakamura vs Ibushi - Wrestlekingdom 9
> 
> 
> Sami Zayn vs Cesaro - Arrival
> *Sami Zayn vs Neville - R evolution *
> Sasha Banks vs Bayley - Brooklyn


Agreed. And for as much shit as the Full Sail crowd gets, even if they can be annoying at times, they really added to this match. From the entrance they were going bonkers for Zayn, and they just erupt to probably the biggest pop ever in NXT when he wins.


----------



## JIM2000

I usually don't do star ratings, so I will only name five of my favorite matches in every promotion



Spoiler: My Lists



*NJPW*
. Riki Choshu vs Yoshiaki Fujiwara - 6/9/87
. Andre the Giant vs Stan Hansen - 9/23/81
. Jushin Thunder Liger vs Naoki Sano - 8/10/89
. Shinya Hashimoto vs Genichiro Tenryu - 8/8/93
. 5 vs 5 Gauntlet Challenge - 4/19/84

*AJPW*
. Billy Robinson vs Nick Buckwinkel - 12/11/80
. Genichiro Tenryu & Jumbo Tsuruta vs Riki Choshu & Yoshiaki Yatsu - 1/28/86
. Terry Funk vs. Stan Hansen - 4/14/83
. Toshiaki Kawada vs Mitsuharu Misawa - 3/6/94
. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi - 6/9/95

*BattlARTS*
. Yuki Ishikawa vs Carl Greco - 6/9/08
. Daisuke Ikeda vs Yuki Ishikawa - 5/27/98
. Daisuke Ikeda & Takeshi Ono vs Yuki Ishikawa & Alexander Otsuka - 10/30/96
. Ishikawa/Sawa/Otsuka vs Ikeda/Super Tiger 2/Usuda - 7/26/08
. Alexander Otsuka vs Daisuke Ikeda - 11/5/97

*FUTEN*
. Yuki Ishikawa vs Daisuke Ikeda - 4/25/05
. Makoto Hashi & Kengo Mashimo vs. Daisuke Ikeda & Takahiro Oba - 10/24/10
. Takeshi Ono vs Daisuke Ikeda - 9/26/10
. Fujita Jr. Hayato vs. NARITA - 1/30/11
. Daisuke Ikeda vs Manabu Suruga - 11/24/10

*RINGS*
. Kiyoshi Tamura vs Volk Han - 1/22/97
. Kiyoshi Tamura vs Yoshihisa Yamamoto - 6/24/99
. Volk Han vs Tsuyoshi Kohsaka - 8/24/96
. Volk Han vs Yoshihisa Yamamoto - 6/17/95
. Volk Han vs Kiyoshi Tamura - 9/25/96

*WCW*
. WarGames Match - WrestleWar 1992
. Meng vs The Giant - 9/14/98
. Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Steamboat vs Arn Anderson & Larry Zbyszko - Clash of the Champions XVII
. Arn Anderson vs Dustin Rhodes - 01/04/92
. Steamboat/Rhodes/Koloff vs Anderson/Eaton/Zbyszko - 5/23/92

*WWE*
. Finlay vs Chris Benoit - Judgment Day 2006
. Brock Lesnar vs Roman Reigns - Wrestlemania 31
. Brock Lesnar vs John Cena - Extreme Rules 2012
. Umaga vs John Cena - Royal Rumble 2007
. Rey Mysterio vs Eddie Guerrero - 6/23/05

*WWF*
. Sgt. Slaughter vs Iron Sheik - Boot Camp Match 1984
. Sgt. Slaughter vs Bob Backlund - 21/3/81
. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle - Summerslam 2001
. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Bret Hart - Wrestlemania 13
. Greg Valentine vs Tito Santana - 1/21/85

*Memphis AKA Jerry Lawler*
. Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee - 6/6/83
. Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee - 12/30/85
. Jerry Lawler vs Terry Funk - 3/23/81
. Jerry Lawler vs Dutch Mantell - 3/29/82
. Jerry Lawler vs Austin Idol - 4/27/87

*ROH*
. Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness - 6th Anniversary
. Bryan Danielson vs Roderick Strong - Vendetta
. Bryan Danielson vs Takeshi Morishima - Manhattan Mayhem
. CM Punk vs Roderick Strong - Escape from NY
. Cage of Death - Death Before Dishonor IV

*EMLL*
. MS-1 vs Sangre Chicana - 9/23/83
. El Satanico vs Gran Cochisse - 9/14/84
. Chicana/Fiera/M.Cota vs Satanico/MS-1/Espectro Jr. - 9/30/83
. Atlantis vs Blue Panther - 8/9/91
. Americo Rocca vs Mocho Cota - 1/27/84

*CMLL*
. Cicloncito Ramirez vs Damiancito El Guerrero - 1/7/97
. El Dandy vs ***** Casas - 7/3/92
. El Hijo del Santo vs ***** Casas - 9/19/97
. Bracito De Oro/Cicloncito/Mascarita vs Damiancito/Fierito/Pierrothito - 10/3/97
. MS-1/Morgan/Satanico vs Los Brazos - 11/22/91 

*AAA*
. Pirata Morgan vs El Satanico - 11/26/93
. LA Park vs El Mesias - 12/5/10
. Espectrito vs Mascarita Sagrada - 3/12/94
. El Mariachi vs Blue Panther - 10/30/94
. Santito/Octagon/Misterio/Parka vs Panther/Fuerza/Pentagon/Psicosis - 6/18/95

In a few days I will do the NWA/AWA/Mid South and Other Shoot Style lists


----------



## Jonasolsson96

JIM2000 said:


> I usually don't do star ratings, so I will only name five of my favorite matches in every promotion
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: My Lists
> 
> 
> 
> *NJPW*
> . Riki Choshu vs Yoshiaki Fujiwara - 6/9/87
> . Andre the Giant vs Stan Hansen - 9/23/81
> . Jushin Thunder Liger vs Naoki Sano - 8/10/89
> . Shinya Hashimoto vs Genichiro Tenryu - 8/8/93
> . 5 vs 5 Gauntlet Challenge - 4/19/84
> 
> *AJPW*
> . Billy Robinson vs Nick Buckwinkel - 12/11/80
> . Genichiro Tenryu & Jumbo Tsuruta vs Riki Choshu & Yoshiaki Yatsu - 1/28/86
> . Terry Funk vs. Stan Hansen - 4/14/83
> . Toshiaki Kawada vs Mitsuharu Misawa - 3/6/94
> . Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi - 6/9/95
> 
> *BattlARTS*
> . Yuki Ishikawa vs Carl Greco - 6/9/08
> . Daisuke Ikeda vs Yuki Ishikawa - 5/27/98
> . Daisuke Ikeda & Takeshi Ono vs Yuki Ishikawa & Alexander Otsuka - 10/30/96
> . Ishikawa/Sawa/Otsuka vs Ikeda/Super Tiger 2/Usuda - 7/26/08
> . Alexander Otsuka vs Daisuke Ikeda - 11/5/97
> 
> *FUTEN*
> . Yuki Ishikawa vs Daisuke Ikeda - 4/25/05
> . Makoto Hashi & Kengo Mashimo vs. Daisuke Ikeda & Takahiro Oba - 10/24/10
> . Takeshi Ono vs Daisuke Ikeda - 9/26/10
> . Fujita Jr. Hayato vs. NARITA - 1/30/11
> . Daisuke Ikeda vs Manabu Suruga - 11/24/10
> 
> *RINGS*
> . Kiyoshi Tamura vs Volk Han - 1/22/97
> . Kiyoshi Tamura vs Yoshihisa Yamamoto - 6/24/99
> . Volk Han vs Tsuyoshi Kohsaka - 8/24/96
> . Volk Han vs Yoshihisa Yamamoto - 6/17/95
> . Volk Han vs Kiyoshi Tamura - 9/25/96
> 
> *WCW*
> . WarGames Match - WrestleWar 1992
> . Meng vs The Giant - 9/14/98
> . Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Steamboat vs Arn Anderson & Larry Zbyszko - Clash of the Champions XVII
> . Arn Anderson vs Dustin Rhodes - 01/04/92
> . Steamboat/Rhodes/Koloff vs Anderson/Eaton/Zbyszko - 5/23/92
> 
> *WWE*
> . Finlay vs Chris Benoit - Judgment Day 2006
> . Brock Lesnar vs Roman Reigns - Wrestlemania 31
> . Brock Lesnar vs John Cena - Extreme Rules 2012
> . Umaga vs John Cena - Royal Rumble 2007
> . Rey Mysterio vs Eddie Guerrero - 6/23/05
> 
> *WWF*
> . Sgt. Slaughter vs Iron Sheik - Boot Camp Match 1984
> . Sgt. Slaughter vs Bob Backlund - 21/3/81
> . Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle - Summerslam 2001
> . Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Bret Hart - Wrestlemania 13
> . Greg Valentine vs Tito Santana - 1/21/85
> 
> *Memphis AKA Jerry Lawler*
> . Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee - 6/6/83
> . Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee - 12/30/85
> . Jerry Lawler vs Terry Funk - 3/23/81
> . Jerry Lawler vs Dutch Mantell - 3/29/82
> . Jerry Lawler vs Austin Idol - 4/27/87
> 
> *ROH*
> . Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness - 6th Anniversary
> . Bryan Danielson vs Roderick Strong - Vendetta
> . Bryan Danielson vs Takeshi Morishima - Manhattan Mayhem
> . CM Punk vs Roderick Strong - Escape from NY
> . Cage of Death - Death Before Dishonor IV
> 
> *EMLL*
> . MS-1 vs Sangre Chicana - 9/23/83
> . El Satanico vs Gran Cochisse - 9/14/84
> . Chicana/Fiera/M.Cota vs Satanico/MS-1/Espectro Jr. - 9/30/83
> . Atlantis vs Blue Panther - 8/9/91
> . Americo Rocca vs Mocho Cota - 1/27/84
> 
> *CMLL*
> . Cicloncito Ramirez vs Damiancito El Guerrero - 1/7/97
> . El Dandy vs ***** Casas - 7/3/92
> . El Hijo del Santo vs ***** Casas - 9/19/97
> . Bracito De Oro/Cicloncito/Mascarita vs Damiancito/Fierito/Pierrothito - 10/3/97
> . MS-1/Morgan/Satanico vs Los Brazos - 11/22/91
> 
> *AAA*
> . Pirata Morgan vs El Satanico - 11/26/93
> . LA Park vs El Mesias - 12/5/10
> . Espectrito vs Mascarita Sagrada - 3/12/94
> . El Mariachi vs Blue Panther - 10/30/94
> . Santito/Octagon/Misterio/Parka vs Panther/Fuerza/Pentagon/Psicosis - 6/18/95
> 
> In a few days I will do the NWA/AWA/Mid South and Other Shoot Style lists








Futen???? Guess there is a new promotion for me to check out. Mind blown here I thought I knew it all. Thanks!


----------



## NakNak

*WWF/E Top 5 ***** matches (no order)*
_CM Punk vs Brock Lesnar (SSlam 2013)
Brock Lesnar vs Eddie Guerrero (NWO 2004)
Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Bret Hart (WM 13)
The Shield vs The Wyatt Family (EC 2014)
Daniel Bryan vs John Cena (SSlam 2013)_

*NXT Top 3 ***** matches (no order)*
_Sami Zayn vs Cesaro (ArRIVAL)
Sami Zayn vs Adrian Neville (R-Evolution)
Sasha Banks vs Bayley (Brooklyn)_

*NJPW Top 5 ***** matches (no order)*
_Shinsuke Nakamura vs Kota Ibushi (WK9)
Shinsuke Nakamura vs AJ Styles (WK10)
AJ Styles vs Minoru Suzuki (G1 Climax 24)
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs AJ Styles (G1 Climax 25)
Tomohiro Ishii vs Tetsuya Naito (New Beginning In Osaka 2014)_

*Lucha Underground Top 2 ***** matches (no order)*
_Mil Muertes vs Fenix (Grave Consequences)
Vampiro vs Pentagon Jr (Ultima Lucha Night 2)_


----------



## NastyYaffa

NakNak said:


> *WWF/E Top 5 ***** matches (no order)*
> _Daniel Bryan vs John Cena (SSlam 2013)_


Glad I am not the only one who has that match at 5-stars. Might be my favorite WWE match ever, tbh. If not, it's at least top-5.


----------



## Fighter Daron

I have an old list over here and I don't know if this still holds it up in my mind, but with a few touches here and there, it would look like this: 



Spoiler: my list



*WWF/E: *
Steve Austin Vs Bret Hart - Wrestlemania XIII
Undertaker Vs Kurt Angle Vs Triple H Vs The Rock Vs Rikishi Vs Steve Austin - _Hell in a Cel_l - WWF Armageddon 2000
Steve Austin Vs The Rock - Wrestlemania X-7
Hardy Boyz Vs Dudley Boyz Vs Edge & Christian - _Tables, Laders and Chairs_ - Wrestlemania X-7
The Rock & Chris Jericho & Big Show & Kane & Undertaker Vs Booker T & Steve Austin & Rob Van Dam & Kurt Angle & Shane McMahon - WWF: Survivor Series 2001
The Rock Vs Hulk Hogan - WWF: Wrestlemania X8
Triple H vs Chris Jericho - _Hell in a Cell_ - WWE: Judgement Day 2002
Triple Vs Shawn Michaels - _Unsanctioned Match_ - WWE: Summerslam 2002
Shawn Michaels Vs Triple H Vs Booker T Vs Kane Vs Rob Van Dam Vs Chris Jericho - _Elimination Chamber_ - WWE Survivor Series 2002
Ric Flair Vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania XXIV
Shawn Michaels Vs Undertaker - Wrestlemania XXV
Shawn Michaels Vs Undertaker - Wrestlemania XXVI
John Cena Vs CM Punk - MITB 2011
Daniel Bryan Vs John Cena - Summerslam 2013
Brock Lesnar Vs CM Punk - Summerslam 2013
Roman Reigns Vs Brock Lesnar - Wrestlemania XXXI


*TNA*
Samoa Joe Vs Christopher Daniels Vs AJ Styles - Unbreakable 2005


*ROH*
Low Ki vs Doug Williams vs Spanky vs Christopher Daniels - Crowning a Champion
Samoa Joe Vs CM Punk - World Title Classic
Samoa Joe Vs CM Punk - Joe Vs Punk II
ROH(Claudio Castagnoli, Delirious, Rocky Romero & Austin Aries) Vs Dragon Gate(CIMA, Dragon Kid, Ryo Saito & Yokosuka) - ROH: All Star Estravaganza 3
Kenta Kobashi Vs Samoa Joe - Joe Vs Kobashi
Bryan Danielson Vs KENTA - Glory By Honor V Night 2
Nigel MacGuinness Vs Bryan Danielson - Unified


*PWG*
Bryan Danielson Vs Chris Hero - Guerre Sans Frontieres
¡Peligro Abejas! Vs Young Bucks Vs Cutler Brothers – _Guerrilla Warfare_ - PWG Seven


*CZW *
John Zandig Vs Sick Nick Mondo - _2 Out of 3 Falls Log Cabin Deathmatch_ - CZW: Tournament of Death II
Ian Rotten Vs Necro Butcher - _Fans Bring Weapons_ - CZW: Tournament of Death II


*NJPW*
Naoki Sano Vs Jushin Thunder Liger - 1-31-1990
Hiroshi Tanahashi Vs Hirooki Goto - Destruction 2007
Hiroshi Tanahashi Vs Satoshi Kojima - G1 Climax 2010 Final
Kota Ibushi Vs Shinsuke Nakamura - Wrestle Kingdom 9

*
AJPW*
Jumbo Tsuruta Vs Genichiro Tenryu - 05/06/1989
Mitsuharu Misawa Vs Toshaki Kawada - 03/06/1994


*NOAH*
Kensuke Sasaki Vs Go Shiozaki - 24/07/10

*
Dragon Gate*
YAMATO Vs Naruki Doi - Compilation Gate 2010


----------



## tboneangle

I'm the OP if this thread. I'll post my updated list soon. Over 100 5 star matches on it. Tho ever since I've been training pro wrestling I have become even more appreciative of how hard it is and I only do half stars not quarter stars. 

Two matches I'm stuck on

Survivor series 2001 tag

Eddie vs Lesnar 02


----------



## Yeah1993

This thread was started FIVE years ago? I replied on the first page and I could've sworn it was like 2013.


----------



## Concrete

Yeah1993 said:


> This thread was started FIVE years ago? I replied on the first page and I could've sworn it was like 2013.


...How?


----------



## BlackoutLAS

CM Punk vs John Cena MITB
CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan OTL
CM Punk vs Brock 
CM Punk vs Undertaker
CM Punk vs Joe 2
CM Punk vs Austin Aries
Daniel Bryan vs HHH
Shawn vs Taker Badd Blood
Austin vs Triple H 3 stages of hell
Will Osprey vs Jimmy Havoc (the one where he wins the belt)
Pentagon JR vs Vampiro
Seth vs Brock vs Cena
Austin vs Rock WM

I'm sure there's more.


----------



## Yeah1993

Concrete said:


> ...How?


As in how could I have thought it was only three-ish years ago and not five? I really don't know, honestly. I think because the thread lasted so long and is still bumped every now and then I just made the connection that it wasn't as old as it was.


----------



## Concrete

Yeah1993 said:


> As in how could I have thought it was only three-ish years ago and not five? I really don't know, honestly. I think because the thread lasted so long and is still bumped every now and then I just made the connection that it wasn't as old as it was.


No I meant i'm with you haha. Doesn't feel THAT long ago.


----------



## Yeah1993

Concrete said:


> No I meant i'm with you haha. Doesn't feel THAT long ago.


I think the forum's screwing with us. It's a PARADOX or something.



Gonna think about matches I'd give (and still give) five nowadays and post sometime later.


----------



## AT&T Stadium

tboneangle said:


> I'm the OP if this thread. I'll post my updated list soon. Over 100 5 star matches on it.


85 of them being Kurt Angle matches, no doubt.

Yesterday, I watched Kawada vs. Hansen for about the 25th time. It was as glorious as the first time. Two guys that just beat the ever loving shit out of each other. It wasn't pretty but it's damn sure five stars. I'm shocked that Big Dave only gave this ****3/4.

I'd love to have time to rewatch all of my 5* matches (~80) and the matches that I haven't yet decided on (there are many). Sadly, I just don't have the time or interest in wrestling any longer.


----------



## tboneangle

AT&T Stadium said:


> 85 of them being Kurt Angle matches, no doubt.
> 
> Yesterday, I watched Kawada vs. Hansen for about the 25th time. It was as glorious as the first time. Two guys that just beat the ever loving shit out of each other. It wasn't pretty but it's damn sure five stars. I'm shocked that Big Dave only gave this ****3/4.
> 
> I'd love to have time to rewatch all of my 5* matches (~80) and the matches that I haven't yet decided on (there are many). Sadly, I just don't have the time or interest in wrestling any longer.


20-22 are angle matches. 13 hbk. 13 styles. 10 Bryan. 10 Bret. 10 flair.


----------



## CoolGuy45

I'm disappointed in all these NJPW lists. None of them include Tanahashi vs Suzuki from King of Pro Wrestling 2012. One of the GOAT matches IMO.


----------



## NastyYaffa

Bumping this excellent thread, because I love going back & reading it - and I'd be really interested in seeing other people's lists!

Here's my updated one:



> *AWA*
> Curt Hennig vs. Nick Bockwinkel (11/15/86)
> 
> *NWA/WCW*
> Ric Flair vs. Terry Funk (11/15/89)
> Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio Jr. (10/26/97)
> 
> *WWE*
> Sgt. Slaughter vs. The Iron Sheik (06/16/84)
> Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart (03/20/94)
> Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin (03/23/97)
> Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker (04/05/09)
> CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan (05/20/12)
> Daniel Bryan, Kane & Ryback vs. Dean Ambrose, Roman Reigns & Seth Rollins (12/16/12)
> Brock Lesnar vs. CM Punk (08/18/13)
> John Cena vs. Daniel Bryan (08/18/13)
> Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn (02/27/14)
> Daniel Bryan vs. Triple H (04/06/14)
> Daniel Bryan vs. Roman Reigns (02/22/15)
> Sami Zayn vs. Shinsuke Nakamura (04/01/16)
> Dash Wilder & Scott Dawson vs. Johnny Gargano & Tommaso Ciampa (11/19/16)
> 
> *NJPW*
> Riki Choshu vs. Shinya Hashimoto (08/02/96)
> AJ Styles vs. Minoru Suzuki (08/01/14)
> Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Kota Ibushi (01/04/15)
> Kazuchika Okada vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi (01/04/16)
> 
> *AJPW*
> Akira Taue, Jumbo Tsuruta & Masanobu Fuchi vs. Kenta Kobashi, Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada (05/22/92)
> Dan Kroffat & Doug Furnas vs. Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi (05/25/92)
> Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi & Mitsuharu Misawa (12/03/93)
> Kenta Kobashi & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada (05/21/94)
> Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada (06/03/94)
> Akira Taue vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (04/15/95)
> Kenta Kobashi & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada (06/09/95)
> Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Jun Akiyama & Mitsuharu Misawa (12/06/96)
> Kenta Kobashi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (01/20/97)
> Kenta Kobashi vs. Jun Akiyama (07/24/98)
> Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Jun Akiyama (02/27/00)
> Kenta Kobashi vs. Yoshihiro Takayama (05/26/00)
> 
> *NOAH*
> Kenta Kobashi vs. Yoshihiro Takayama (04/25/04)
> 
> *IWA-MS*
> Chris Hero vs. CM Punk (02/07/03)
> 
> *ROH*
> Bryan Danielson vs. Paul London (04/12/03)
> Samoa Joe vs. CM Punk (12/04/04)
> Samoa Joe vs. Kenta Kobashi (10/01/05)
> Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness (08/12/06)
> Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA (09/16/06)
> Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness (06/09/07)
> Takeshi Morishima vs. Bryan Danielson (08/25/07)
> Nigel McGuinness vs. Bryan Danielson (02/23/08)
> Nigel McGuinness vs. Bryan Danielson (11/22/08)
> El Generico vs. Kevin Steen (12/18/10)
> 
> *PWG*
> Chris Hero vs. Bryan Danielson (09/04/09)


----------



## El Dandy

I'll ballpark mine starting from 1994 onward. A lot I really need to see from the 80's/90's (I really need to spend time watching AJPW). But yeah from then on it's most of the token matches you'd expect to see.

1994: Bret Hart v Owen Hart - WWF WrestleMania 10
1994: Shawn Michaels v Razor Ramon - WWF WrestleMania 10
1994: Eddie Guerrero/Art Barr v Octagon/El Hijo del Santo - When World's Collide
1996: Shinya Hashimoto v Nobuhiko Takada - Battle Formation
1996: Bret Hart v Steve Austin - WWF Survivor Series
1997: Bret Hart v Steve Austin - WWF WrestleMania 13
1997: Eddie Guerrero v Rey Mysterio - WCW Halloween Havoc
1997: Koji Kanemoto v El Samurai - NJPW BOSJ
1997: Shawn Michaels v The Undertaker - WWF Badd Blood
2000-2001: Edge/Christian v Dudley Boys v Hardy Boyz - Ladder/TLC series (fuck you, I'm not picking.The GOAT car crashes)
2001: Steve Austin v The Rock - WWF WrestleMania 17
2002: Kurt Angle/Chris Benoit v Edge/Rey Mysterio - WWE No Mercy
2004: Kenta Kobashi v Jun Akiyama - NOAH Departure
2004: Kenta Kobashi v Yoshihiro Takayama - NOAH Encountering Navigation
2005: Kenta Kobashi v Samoa Joe - ROH Joe vs. Kobashi
2009: Shawn Michaels v The Undertaker - WWE WrestleMania 25
2012: Hiroshi Tanahashi v Minoru Suzuki - NJPW King of Pro Wrestling
2013: Shinsuke Nakamura v Kazushi Sakuraba - NJPW WrestleKingdom 7
2014: AJ Styles v Minoru Suzuki - NJPW G1 Climax
2014: Katsuyori Shibata v Tomohiro Ishii - NJPW G1 Climax
2015: Shinsuke Nakamura v Kota Ibushi - NJPW WrestleKingdom 9
2016: Hiroshi Tanahashi v Kazuchika Okada - NJPW WrestleKingdom 10
2016: Tetsuya Naito v Kenny Omega - NJPW G1 Climax


----------



## NastyYaffa

I am still gonna try to revive this thread :side:

New addition:

*Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada (AJPW 07/24/95)*

Holy fuck this was great. Easily their 2nd best match after that '94 GOAT puro match one. This was all about Kawada's desperation to beat Misawa, right from the get go he was being a total dick to Misawa by attacking his face and showing no remorse at all. That set the tone for the match - Kawada being awesome, kicking ass, and Misawa busting out awesome comebacks with those GOAT elbows. My god his big comeback towards the end was SO good. One of the best ones I've ever seen.

EDIT: On a re-watch, went down to ****3/4, so not a 5*, but still a badass match.


----------



## Mordecay

Benoit/Angle Backlash 2001
TLC II
Rock vs Austin WM17
Team WWE vs Team Alliance Survivor Series 2001
Edge vs Mick Foley Hardcore match WM22
AJ Styles vs Samoa Joe vs Cristopher Daniels TNA Unbreakable
HBK vs Undertaker WM25
Undertaker vs HHH End of an Era HIAC WM28
The Shield vs The Wyatts Elimination Chamber 2014
Zayn vs Neville NXT Takeover R Evolution
Nakamura vs Ibushi WK9
AJ Styles vs Hiroshi Tanahashi G1 25
Tomohiro Ishii vs Katsuyori Shibata WK10
Shinsuke Nakamura vs AJ Styles WK10
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada WK10
Shinsuke Nakamura vs Sami Zayn NXT Takeover Dallas
Tomohiro Ishii vs Kazuchika Okada G1 26
Kenny Omega vs Tetsuya Naito G1 26
Kazuchika Okada vs Naomichi Marufuji King of Pro Wrestling 2016
Kazuchika Okada vs Kenny Omega WK11 (all the stars)


----------



## Bruce L

My updated list:



Bruce L said:


> *All Japan Pro Wrestling*
> 
> 
> • Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Riki Choshu & Yoshiaki Yatsu — 1-26-1986
> 
> 
> • Stan Hansen & Terry Gordy vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Toshiaki Kawada — 12-16-1988
> 
> 
> • Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Genichiro Tenryu — 6-5-1989
> 
> 
> • Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Mitsuharu Misawa — 6-8-1990
> 
> 
> • Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue, & Masanobu Fuchi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Toshiaki Kawada, & Kenta Kobashi — 4-20-1991
> 
> 
> • Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Terry Gordy & Steve Williams — 12-6-1991
> 
> 
> • Doug Furnas & Dan Kroffat vs. Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi — 5-25-1992
> 
> 
> • Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi, & Jun Akiyama vs. Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue, & Yoshinari Ogawa — 7-2-1993
> 
> 
> • Stan Hansen vs. Kenta Kobashi — 7-29-1993
> 
> 
> • Steve Williams vs. Kenta Kobashi — 8-31-1993
> 
> 
> • Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue — 12-3-1993
> 
> 
> • Steve Williams vs. Toshiaki Kawada — 4-16-1994
> 
> 
> • Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue — 5-21-1994
> 
> 
> • Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada — 6-3-1994
> 
> 
> • Steve Williams vs. Kenta Kobashi — 10-3-1994
> 
> 
> • Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi — 1-19-1995
> 
> 
> • Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs. Steve Williams & Johnny Ace — 3-4-1995
> 
> 
> • Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Akira Taue — 4-15-1995
> 
> 
> • Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue — 6-9-1995
> 
> 
> • Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada — 7-24-1995
> 
> 
> • Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi — 10-15-1995
> 
> 
> • Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs. Steve Williams & Johnny Ace — 6-7-1996
> 
> 
> • Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue — 12-6-1996
> 
> 
> • Kenta Kobashi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa — 1-20-1997
> 
> 
> • Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi — 10-21-1997
> 
> 
> • Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi — 6-12-1998
> 
> 
> • Kenta Kobashi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa — 10-31-1998
> 
> 
> • Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada — 1-22-1999
> 
> 
> • Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi — 6-11-1999
> 
> 
> • Mitsuharu Misawa & Yoshinari Ogawa vs. Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama — 10-23-1999
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *All Japan Women*
> 
> 
> • Manami Toyota vs. Toshiyo Yamada — 8-15-1992
> 
> 
> • Manami Toyota & Toshiyo Yamada vs. Dynamite Kansai & Mayumi Ozaki — 11-26-1992
> 
> 
> • Kyoko Inoue & Takako Inoue vs. Mayumi Ozaki & Cutie Suzuki — 4-2-1993
> 
> 
> • Manami Toyota & Toshiyo Yamada vs. Dynamite Kansai & Mayumi Ozaki — 4-11-1993
> 
> 
> • Aja Kong vs. Manami Toyota — 11-20-1994
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Dragon Gate USA*
> 
> 
> • Davey Richards vs. Shingo Takagi — 9-6-2009
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *New Japan Pro Wrestling*
> 
> 
> • Naoki Sano vs. Jushin "Thunder" Liger — 1-31-1990
> 
> 
> • Wild Pegasus vs. The Great Sasuke — 4-16-1994
> 
> 
> • Jushin "Thunder" Liger vs. Shinjiro Ohtani — 2-9-1997
> 
> 
> • Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Hirooki Goto — 11-11-2007
> 
> 
> • Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Kazuchika Okada — 4-7-2013
> 
> 
> • Kazuchika Okada vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi — 10-14-2013
> 
> 
> • Tetsuya Naito vs. Kenny Omega — 8-13-2016
> 
> 
> • Kazuchika Okada vs. Kenny Omega — 1-4-2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Pro Wrestling NOAH*
> 
> 
> • Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi — 3-1-2003
> 
> 
> • Kenta Kobashi vs. Jun Akiyama — 7-10-2004
> 
> 
> • Naomichi Marufuji vs. KENTA — 10-29-2006
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ring of Honor*
> 
> 
> • A.J. Styles vs. Paul London — _Night of the Grudges_ (6-14-2003)
> 
> 
> • Samoa Joe vs. C.M. Punk — _Joe vs. Punk II_ (10-16-2004)
> 
> 
> • Samoa Joe vs. Kenta Kobashi — _Joe vs. Kobashi_ (10-1-2005)
> 
> 
> • Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness — _Unified_ (8-12-2006)
> 
> 
> • Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA — _Glory by Honor V_, Night 2 (9-16-2006)
> 
> 
> • Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. The Motor City Machineguns — _Good Times, Great Memories_ (4-28-2007)
> 
> 
> • Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness — _Driven_ (taped 6-9-2007)
> 
> 
> • Tyler Black vs. Davey Richards — _Death Before Dishonor VIII_ (6-19-2010)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Total Nonstop Action/Impact Wrestling*
> 
> 
> • A.J. Styles vs. Samoa Joe vs. Christopher Daniels — _Unbreakable_ (9-11-2005)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *World Championship Wrestling*
> 
> 
> • Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat — _Chi-Town Rumble_ (2-20-1989)
> 
> 
> • Ricky Steamboat vs. Ric Flair — _Clash of the Champions VI_ (4-2-1989)
> 
> 
> • Ricky Steamboat vs. Ric Flair — _WrestleWar '89_ (5-7-1989)
> 
> 
> • "Sting's Squadron" vs. The Dangerous Alliance — _WrestleWar '92_ (5-17-1992)
> 
> 
> • Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio Jr. — _Halloween Havoc '97_ (10-26-1997)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *World Wrestling Federation/Entertainment*
> 
> 
> • Randy Savage vs. Ricky Steamboat — _WrestleMania III_ (3-29-1987)
> 
> 
> • Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart — _WrestleMania X_ (3-20-1994)
> 
> 
> • Razor Ramon vs. Shawn Michaels — _WrestleMania X_ (3-20-1994)
> 
> 
> • Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart — _SummerSlam '94_ (8-29-1994)
> 
> 
> • Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels — _WrestleMania XII_ (3-31-1996)
> 
> 
> • Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin — _WrestleMania XIII_ (3-23-1997)
> 
> 
> • Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs. Edge & Rey Mysterio — _No Mercy_ (10-20-2002)
> 
> 
> • Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit — _Royal Rumble 2003_ (1-19-2003)
> 
> 
> • HHH vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Benoit — _WrestleMania XX_ (3-14-2004)
> 
> 
> • The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels — _WrestleMania 25_ (4-5-2009)
> 
> 
> • The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels — _WrestleMania 26_ (3-28-2010)


----------



## Yeah1993

I haven't given snowflakes in nearly seven years but I do miss something about them. I would never go back to it because of how much of a hassle I found it in the end, but I think keeping a five star list might be cool. I'm gonna watch and re-watch a bunch of matches and see if I'd give them five, just for fun. Posting this here so if I don't do it I encourage people to yell at me. Gonna re-watch matches I think are classics, and use sources to see stuff for the first time. Maybe I'll finally actually watch some 2010s New Japan.

Edit. holy crap I used UK dating in my first post in this thread. Long damn time ago, that was.


----------



## Corey

This match needs to be on more of your lists. If someone asked me what the best wrestling match I'd ever seen was, this would be pretty damn high on that list:


----------



## Yeah1993

I actually watched stuff! I'm gonna keep updating even if no one else posts, so prepare for shameless double/triple/etc posting if it happens.


> *Magnum TA v. Tully Blanchard (NWA 11/28/85)*
> 
> *BEFORE THE MATCH – *Haven’t seen this in years. Little doubt in mind it holds up, and whether it’s five stars or not I guess I’ll find out. Dunno if I ever actually considered it “five stars” but I think my peak appreciation for it came after I gave up star ratings so maybe I did.
> 
> *THE MATCH – *Total master class in hate-filled violence. From the very second they tie up there’s steam coming out of both of their ears. One of my favourite little things in the entire match is very early when they’re both just on the floor doing what is maybe a one-armed test of strength before Tully breaks it up. It’s just so reckless and sloppy, they didn’t know how to start off the match – they just know they wanted the other guy to be in as much shitting pain as possible. Even the mundane wrestling moves and general cage stuff looked so much more filled with vitriol. Let alone when they’re literally JUST ripping at each other’s faces, psychopathically clawing at hair and eyes. Tully’s arm gets shredded, Magnum’s head gets busted, they walloped each other with the microphone and the smack sounded like someone tenderizing meat for schnitzel, the both of them screamed into the mic like they were giving birth through the throat, they could barely move when delivering basic moves like an atomic drop.
> 
> The commentators really add to this, too. They stay silent for the real bulk of chaos, and it comes off like they’re breathless just watching the fucked up mess in front of them.
> 
> The chair spike for the end match sums up the whole thing – it just came off of chair when Tully threw it on the floor. No set up, nobody’s going through a TV monitor or falling off of something in a contrived spot, nothing fancy about it. It’s a disgusting jagged piece of wood, and it’ll get the job done. A lot of the match is like they wanted to violently kill each other, and their emotions came over them so much that their bodies’ could barely listen. They did whatever came to them at the time and needed no game plan. This match will always be one of the greats. Best gimmick match of all time?
> 
> *IS IT FIVE STARS? – *It might possibly be borderline, but yes. What starts out as “just” a great match cage match turns into something truly transcendent. This is that masterpiece eyes-glued-to-the-screen-level shit. I have it on again while typing and I’m having trouble looking away from it.





> *Yoshiaki Fujiwara v. Super Tiger (UWF 12/5/84)*
> 
> *BEFORE THE MATCH –* These two make probably one of the best series of matches in wrestling footage history. I’m going to at least watch this one, and 9/11/85. I thought the latter was their best but their second best being five stars or close doesn’t seem unrealistic, if at least based on my memory. And any excuse to watch Fujiwara.
> *
> THE MATCH –* Still fantastic, to absolutely no surprise. Classic kick v. grapple, with both guys going into early confrontations super cautiously. Fujiwara is just incredible. His fighting stances and baiting for kicks only to counter are so crazily natural looking that for a split second you’d think it was MMA. Sayama tried levelling the kicks not only for a little damage, but I think to bait Fujiwara himself into a missed grab so Tiger could really take advantage. Tiger delivers some motherfucking brutal kicks to the head, too. There are some while Fujiwara is on the floor that’ll make your own brain rattle, but the corker of them all is late in the match. Fujiwara does the best sell of a kick to the head I’ve ever seen, tumbling down fucking perfectly and sliding his hands down the ropes sideways along the way. Almost directly after that Fujiwara dodges another kick but it’s as if moving his own body caused him to spin out dizzy, and he collapsed onto the ground and wound up in serious deep shit. It was there when Sayama’s kicks started doing it’s damage (and it just kept getting worse and worse), and quite literally perfectly sold by Fujiwara. Favourite part of the match.
> 
> My other favourite part of the match was a sort of chain that began with Sayama landing one heavy kick on Fujiwara’s leg, which made Fujiwara tumble backward a bit. Sayama took major advantage of that and kept on kicking until Fujiwara was down. Then both guys wound up on their feet and I thought the leg thing had no major bearing on the match, despite being what felt like the first big move. I was proven well wrong when Fujiwara comes out with forty five swinging fists – HIS first big move in the match. The leg got him in trouble and this was his way of making sure he was going to get some time on top, even if it was risky with Tiger being able to spring a kick out of nowhere. He was getting desperate.
> 
> Really awesome vocal selling throughout too, which I’ve never really thought about it before, but I kind of find is more important in shoot style than any other type of wrestling. I especially loved Sayama choking and coughing, which to be fair may have not been a work but whatever.
> 
> *IS IT FIVE STARS? – *No. This dumbass project will be awkward in some cases where I say negative things about matches I think are basically classics, but five stars is the real mega uber all time classics and I didn’t get that from this until the final stretch. Some odd transitions and missed opportunities to elevate the match kind of put this on a lower level to the real top of the line. The grappling is good but not next-level or anything, which doesn’t matter in the long run but again, does for five stars. I think shoot style really benefits from not having 25 minute long matches, too.
> 
> It would have been five stars if the entire match was as good as the last six or so minutes though. I have to refrain myself from just continuing talking about how cool it was. I didn’t even mention Fujiwara fighting back with kicks of his own, or the amazing way he sold his own headbutt. Fuck I wasn’t gonna rewatch Fujiwara/Choshu but I think I have to.





> *
> El Satanico v. Pirata Morgan (AAA 11/19/93)*
> 
> *BEFORE THE MATCH *– Watched this on the 1993 yearbook and it was indescribable to see this match that I didn’t know existed until the set came out. One of the best apuestas matches I’ve seen, the single best AAA match I’ve seen, and an easy MOTYC from 1993. Before rewatching it I can name but two matches from the 1993 year I think are better. I HAD to watch this again.
> *
> THE MATCH *– Satanico gets the jump on Morgan pre-introduction, and already has his teeth around Morgan’s bleeding forehead 3 minutes into the match. Can I just gush about how fun the selling and bumping is? I know I harp on this a lot sometimes, but it really means a lot to me when a wrestler sells a punch well. Not to mention Morgan starts the match bumping into the turnbuckles in a way I don’t think I can describe in words. He even does that Flair/Michaels turnbuckle flip bump in a more convincing way than I think I’ll ever see.
> 
> Third fall is no duh where the match takes off and sweet Christ does it take off. I don’t even really know what to say. The just hit each other. Neither guy has a realllllll extended period to work on top because they just keep fucking hitting each other. Both guys look exhausted the whole thing and every single move in the match feels like it means something. This is how you make your moves matter, motherfucker. Every little stomp, every elbow, every punch, every headbutt. It felt like it all counted and added something positive to the match. In fact I will go on record saying I remember two specific things in this entire 20+ minutes that I thought he match could have fixed. TWO THINGS. I was utterly captivated the entire time.
> *
> IS IT FIVE STARS?* – Arguably, but not……You know? To fuck with it, I’m gonna say yes, at least for now when this project is still in it’s infancy. The fact I want to watch the match again right now is taking precedent over my nigglings about it maybe just being a top ****3/4 match. I think most won’t agree, including maybe even me at a later date, but five stars.





> *Volk Han v. Kiyoshi Tamura (RINGS 9/25/96)*
> 
> *BEFORE THE MATCH *– Gotta be honest with this one, there’s almost no way I give it five stars. But their other two matches I might, so why not just watch their first with them.
> 
> *THE MATCH *– I miss watching RINGS so much. The rope break/KO points system adds so much drama to matches, and these two are the most electric shoot style wrestlers in the universe to watch. Absolute fucking masters of suspense, drama and rolling around on the floor like gay sex. Motherfucking five star moment when Tamura has all of his limbs wrapped around one of Han’s legs, only for Han to nab a quick armbar which lead to Tamura letting go – except for his leg which was stuck and he had to quickly unravel. There was one leglock where Tamura’s leg was really awfully bent behind himself too.
> 
> Another five star moment when Han was locked in an armbar himself, went toward the ropes but found an opening to swiftly free himself, so he wouldn’t get a rope point. Tamura kept building up those rope points himself, so he unleashes a spot that I forgot was one of my favourite spots of all time – a straight kick to the gut. Han goes down like punching bag cut from the ceiling and probably lost every bit of oxygen in him for a good few seconds. That kick leads to a 9 count which feels like the “even the playing field” moment for Tamura. Han is a little sluggish in the next exchange compared to how swift he was the rest of the match, so the playing field might not be so even after all. Just incredible wrestling. A fucking classic in 11 minutes and somehow the worst match they had together.
> 
> *IS IT FIVE STARS? *– I wouldn’t argue with someone who thought so, but no. I worry that I’m only thinking that because I know they have two better matches that may actually be five stars, but it’s been so long since I’ve seen them that I think I can look at this one alone, and I don’t think it’s five stars. I can’t even drum up reasons or flaws as to why; it’s just not of “that” level of quality.





> *Volk Han v. Kiyoshi Tamura (RINGS 1/22/97)*
> *
> BEFORE THE MATCH *– Unlike most people I’ve always thought their third match was their best instead of this one. Been years now though so lemme see.
> 
> *THE MATCH *– Tamura is real persistent compared to last match, and heavily laying in kicks, mostly successfully to Han’s legs and hips. Han does what he can to take it to mat, including trying to weaken Tamura with palm strikes, but Tamura’s pressure-bringing doesn’t let Han get anywhere near as much of the advantage as he was going for. And it’s not like Tamura can’t take anybody on the mat, but if he can equal Han on the mat yet best him in pure strikes – he’s gonna go to the strikes. His tenacity means frequent rope breaks this time, too. He was quicker to avoid getting in a jam than he was in September, and his speed took Han off guard a lot more this time.
> 
> Some of the exchanges in this are unreal. Is Han avoiding the leglock by hopping, then Tamura kipping up the greatest five seconds of any match ever? Hey! I’ll answer that – NO! The best five seconds of wrestling ever is Tamura delivering the exact same kick to the gut to Han that he did in the 96 match! It only got an 8 count this time! Reference! Chills and goosebumps. Han at one point prevents Tamura from grabbing the ropes by clutching his wrists, that was also awesome and simple fucking brilliance.
> 
> I literally could not list everything good about this match if I tried, and it’s only 13 minutes long.
> 
> *IS IT FIVE STARS? *– Yep. This doesn’t have every cool thing that’s in their 96 match, but if it did it would be like why even have two matches or whatever. This is still basically their 96 turned up to 11. Or 5…from a maximum possible 4 and a half shut up.





> *Volk Han v. Kiyoshi Tamura (RINGS 9/26/97)*
> 
> *BEFORE THE MATCH* – One year and one day after their first match. That’s neat huh. Like I said I always thought this was their best, but after the rewatch 1/22/97 will be difficult to top. I’m excited!!!!
> *
> THE MATCH* – I forgot to mention (shock) that the 1/22 started with a five million out of ten swinging wristlock takedown attempt by Han. He started the match with the same thing here and landed it, and it leads Tamura to use up a rope break way too early in the match for him. Really awesome spot that feels like it plays off of their other matches.
> 
> Tamura was pretty kick reliant in this but he came off as a lot less desperate early on than in 1/22. This was the first match of the three by the ten minute mark where it felt like Tamura had the very clear lead and Han had to work upward or risk losing the match. Brilliant, brilliant spot where Han gets up immediately following a couple of violent to say he’s ok, just to avoid getting knockdown points. Then on one specific kick to Han’s leg (after a series of them), Han tumbles and tries to get up immediately again, but the ref counts it as a knockdown and starts counting. Tamura does the gut kick third match in a row after that, and it only gets a seven count this time. That’s one less each time. SEX! Tamura gets a chokehold on IMMEDIATELY following that, causing Han to get the ropes, and causing his points just keep climbing higher and higher. End match really honestly feels like a great conclusion to their series, even though they were supposed to face again in January 1998. Fucked up that never got to happen.
> 
> *IS IT FIVE STARS? *– Yes. Though I actually do think the January match is better now.





> *Jerry Lawler v. Bill Dundee (CWA 6/6/83)*
> *
> BEFORE THE MATCH* – Watched this first time years ago and thought it was great, but very clearly below their 85 match. Watched it one or two more times and felt the same thing. Watched it again in December 2013 and thought it was basically the best match I’d ever seen. I’ll copy/paste what I said back then.
> 
> *THE MATCH *–
> 
> 
> 
> What did I just watch? I’ve seen this more than once but I have never been so freakishly connected to it. In fact I cannot remember the last time I got this involved in a match, or the last time I thought a match was this good. It almost felt like I was watching the greatest wrestling match of all time. The opening was enough to make me a drooling fan girl. It was the greatest ‘big time fight’ boxing opening I have ever seen, and when Lawler swung that punch and Dundee flinched, fell flat on his arse and rolled out of the ring, I lost it. I had to rewind it multiple times and I swear to God it may be my new favourite wrestling match moment that has ever happened. It was the perfect opening line for this kind of loser leaves town match. The punches themselves are godly. Is there a match in history with better punches and selling of punches ever? Any fool is taught how to throw a punch in wrestling, but execution is everything, and these two don’t fuck around with selling hard punches. They don’t do the simple pissy ‘stomp and move head’, they go all out with swinging bodies and stumbling and jolting their head in the right direction of the punch. I remember multiple specific punch sells from this and I suspect I’ll remember them for a while. They’re also perfect when selling how hard the punch is. It’s like they know how much force each other will put behind the punch and sell appropriately based on that. And every punch felt big; there wasn’t a single move used to waste time, used for filler, used to set up something more elaborate– this was all important shit. Punches punches PUNCHES PUNCHES MOTHERFUCKER THE PUNCHES.
> 
> Most of this is punches, but, again, execution is everything, and when you’re executing the greatest punches in any wrestling match ever then you can afford to use mostly punches. Not any two wrestlers could do this. Everything outside of punches is classic too, though. Lawler’s sell of the first shoulder block might be the best one I’ve ever seen, the missed leg drop sell might be the best I’ve ever seen, and he did ‘gets hit off of the apron and bounces off table’ better than anybody I’ve ever seen. None of this is hyperbole or exaggeration. I actually loved the referee getting involved. In a lot matches without rules they get in the way and the attention almost gets dragged towards them, but I thought the sight of Tommy Gilbert trying to tear Dundee away from the bleeding Lawler was an incredible sell of how ruthless Dundee was being; like an animal tamer stopping a lion attack. Some of the concrete spots are a little rough to think about, even if we don’t really get to see the fall. Lawler does that ‘holds onto the ropes and nearly falls backward’ spot, and actually falls. There aren’t mats here, either - it was pure concrete, so I don’t give a shit if you see it or not, just the idea of that is brutal.
> 
> I’ve tried but I cannot explain this match in full detail. If I were to mention everything right with it I would have to do an honest move-by-move play-by-play. Not a single move wasted, not a single thing felt unimportant, not a single thing didn’t keep me totally gripped. Big match with a big match feel and wrestlers in the front row and fans getting unglued and just an indescribable piece of footage. I swear, this match truly feels like a surreal, unreal, all time classic. It’s basically perfect. Maybe it’s because I haven’t been watching truly amazing wrestling for a while, but I felt like if we had the full match it might be a Greatest Match of All Time contender. And it may not even be the best Jerry Lawler v. Bill Dundee match. This is the 80s.
> 
> 
> 
> My rewatch did nothing to change anything I said there, really. I should just add that Dundee had the greatest missed elbow of all time. Easily among my top ten favourite matches and as of now, top ten best. Like I actually am not kidding saying I don’t believe how good the match is. I must be imagining that it even exists. Damn shame it isn’t the full match.
> *
> IS IT FIVE STARS? *–. I could have said yes without rewatching it but I was absolutely going to rewatch it no matter what. I honestly think I might give this five stars if it was half as long. If the gap in quality between this and 85 is as big as I used to think, then 85 is by far the single greatest wrestling match in history.
Click to expand...






Spoiler: shithead's ongoing not really official but definitely not unofficial five star matches



Jerry Lawler v. Bill Dundee (CWA 6/6/83)
Magnum TA v. Tully Blanchard (NWA 11/28/85)
El Satanico v. Pirata Morgan (AAA 11/19/93)
Volk Han v. Kiyoshi Tamura (RINGS 1/22/97)
Volk Han v. Kiyoshi Tamura (RINGS 9/26/97)



Man I'm way more lenient than I used to be. Wait, no, don't overthink, you fool. That sucks the fun out of it like always.

side-note: I love how this thread is rated four stars.


----------



## Yeah1993

Putting every individual match in quote tags from now on, and edited the above. Even with the bold and underline and red it still looked like a big eyesore and I hated it. I will change the red text too since I already hate that and with the quotes it isn't needed to separate the matches.


This is the "will I like it more?" edition. I'm gonna rewatch a few matches that other people like way more than me (and that I was a little surprised that I wasn't as high on) and see if my opinion lines more up with their's. Because why not ruin the fun I'm having with matches I may not even like?



> *Randy Savage v. The Ultimate Warrior (WWF 3/24/91)*
> 
> *BEFORE THE MATCH – * Never liked this. Way back when, I soured a bit on guys I’ve since come back around on (e.g. Brian Pillman, Owen Hart), and I don’t remember Savage being one of them. Though somehow I never cared for this match. Watched it three times and the third time I actually fast forwarded through a lot of it because I just didn’t want to watch it any more. Been a long time since then so let’s give it another shot. I do wonder how much the five elbows and the (what I remember being a) terrible, terrible finish will bother me even if I like it this time.
> 
> ………
> 
> Ok I should say before the match I’m already really into it. The highlights of past altercations (including the WWF title changing as a result), Elizabeth being at ringside, the looming thought of Savage being corrupt, Warrior walking to the ring instead of running. Don’t fucking let me down match you have me already.
> 
> *THE MATCH – * hahahahahahaha I was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy wrong. The execution isn’t the STRONGEST as far as selling and offense (especially coming from watching Lawler/Dundee yesterday), but I seriously cannot sit here and say the match would have been that much better if it was. This to me was all about Savage losing his edge in what should be the match that he has his best showing in, and slowly coming to grips with his career being over. It was almost obvious he was losing; he looked kind of pathetic unlike any heel I can remember.
> 
> Sherri might have consistently made the best contribution to the match. We’ve all seen managers interfering, we’ve all seen managers giving their guy the upper hand, but not many – if any – managers that basically needed to interfere to save an entire career. This didn’t feel like a manager giving an unfair advantage – this felt like a manager constantly trying to even things up, and even bloody failing to do that. It really looked like Savage would have lasted maybe five minutes without her. He tried to catch Warrior off guard I don’t know how many times, threw the chair in as a distraction, caused a ref bump (GREAT bump from the ref, btw), and one of his biggest “moves” was dodging a splash so Warrior launched himself to the outside – Savage couldn’t get the upperhand with offense so he had to make Warrior injure himself. Sherri’s interferences gave Savage most of his openings, and especially because of the ending face turn, it felt like she was in the match almost as much as the other two.
> 
> I thought going into to this even if I liked it, I’d think it was a Savage carry. I really, really, really, really didn’t. Warrior being more slow and deliberate and keeping the crazy rushing at a low really put the match over, and basically every move he did was amazingly placed into the match. His interactions with Sherri, too; basically ideal for what they were going for without taking attention away from Savage. Some of his individual spots rocked, too. Catching Savage in a powerslam but instead placing him down and slapping him in the face is one of my new favourite spots. Savage’s face and then leaving the ring was amazing. It’s like not only did he feel disrespected, but he actually felt inferior at that moment. Whole match was just a gorgeous puzzle and everyone put their fair share of pieces in.
> 
> Neither the elbows nor the finish bothered me this time either. Warrior looked out of it after the elbows, and I can count it as part of Savage being a wreck at this point. The Hulk Up was egregious but way less than it could have been. It at least felt like the elbows had impact on him. Finish I remember being just some regular move, and the one foot pin bothered me, but now I think it really sums the whole match up, in a positive way. After needing Sherri to even be able to breathe, Savage had his ONE moment of actually kicking out of Warrior’s splash, and he couldn’t handle anything after that. Warrior’s shoulder tackles and Savage looking more pathetic each time falling out of ring felt honestly perfect. The entire match was Savage off of his game and the elbow kick outs plus shoulder tackles fit right in with that. It’s almost moralistic in conjunction with the face turn.
> 
> I forgot about Warrior talking his sky pirates, thought it was cool this time, of only because Savage was being a chump the whole match, and if Warrior thought he didn’t deserve a career if he could beat him, then that’d be cool.
> 
> This is like opposite of Rock/Austin X7. It’s a corrupt nutcase slowly losing his edge and coming to grips as time went on. Oh man if they had something similar to this with Austin in 2001 it would have been amazing. Though it wouldn’t have had the career match shadow, and would have ended with no crying and all Vince McMahon bleeding, but still.
> 
> I don’t even have to say it, but the aftermath to this is probably the best WWE moment in history.
> 
> *IS IT FIVE STARS? – * I’ll put this on the chopping block when it comes time to trim the list down, but yeah, I’m green lighting it now. Utterly shocked. I think this is easily a contender for best WWE match of all time. Please nobody allow me to be this wrong about something for seven straight years ever again.





> *Bryan Danielson v. KENTA (ROH 9/16/06)*
> 
> *BEFORE THE MATCH – * First time I watched this I was very sexually frustrated and instead of pausing the match and having a wank like I would now, I for someone reason waited until the match ended. So naturally when I didn’t take to the match I blamed that, and watched it again. I didn’t like it any more than I did the first time. I’ve choked the chicken in preparation and am ready to see it again!
> 
> *THE MATCH – * No I still don’t care about this. I should clarify, I’ve always thought this was a very good match looking with “objective/unbiased” eyes, but I really don’t ever care to watch it again for as long as I live. I mean this is good wrestling but I really don’t GET it.
> 
> Shoulder stuff was really cool. KENTA wastes his time trying to mat wrestle at one or two points, but he’s up against Dragon so after that he generally tries to stick to arm/shoulder stuff, especially kicking. Though I literally rolled my eyes when KENTA gets up from the snap mare + kick and does his own so I was glad that wasn’t a common theme. Except when KENTA no sells that German suplex because he forgets he’s wrestling someone good and not Marufuji. That series of boots and suplexes was pretty bad, honestly, but thankfully it was pretty short too.
> 
> I really liked Danielson’s dive, mainly because it wasn’t really a dive and he just liked jumped with his knees up. Was really reckless and he came out of it having benefitted from it. The kip up while holding the shoulder was awesome, and KENTA’s Fujiwara armbar following was great and super desperate looking.
> 
> Finish stretch was good. KENTA got to the shoulder when h could but Dragon wasn’t really letting him. Dragon’s the guy who uses his two arms for most of his offense so he had to risk the shoulder by doing more gradually dangerous things like the Regalplex and the top rope back body drop. I was waiting for him have to break the cattle mutilation because of the shoulder but I was fine with it not happening. The catch into the Go to Sleep kind of ignored the shoulder in a good way; it’s like Dragon almost forgot that KENTA could do anything but go for the shoulder so he slipped up. Dragon being wise to the second one made that even cooler. This is good.
> 
> *IS IT FIVE STARS? – * I don’t see it. The MOTDC hype that surrounds this just completely passes me by, it’s something I seriously just do not understand even though I honestly have positive things to say about almost the entire match (which you know if read the above). It’s like if you see a good match on SmackDown one week and are ready to post all “this is worth watching guys”, but you get into the thread and see people calling it match of the year. I really don’t have anything against this match but what makes it special completely escapes me. Off the top of my head I wouldn’t even consider this one of the best ROH matches of 2006.





> *Shinya Hashimoto v. Nobuhiko Takada (New Japan 4/29/96)*
> 
> 
> *BEFORE THE MATCH – * Unlike the two matches above I really really liked this but people around me call it a MOTYC, and wasn’t really getting that so much as it’s just a great match. Has one of the best spots ever though (I’m saying that a lot aren’t I) Hashimoto in 1996 is a potential WOTYC, but he really doesn’t have that ONE amazing match to me the whole year. Maybe this will be it now?
> 
> *THE MATCH – * Still really awesome. Feels like one of the handful wrestling matches that feels like a true clash of heavyweights on your biggest show. The kind of thing WrestleMania main events go for and almost always completely fail at.
> 
> The spot I was talking about was Hashimoto’s leg sweep while ducking the kick. Still fucking amazing, and I’d forgotten Takada was often getting the upper hand with kicks, too. I kind of thought it was lame that Takada just had a Fujwara armbar on after that though. Crowd basically died for a sec too, it was like the volume had been gradually turned down. Fair enough to avoid the brainbuster, but shit, the sweep spot really felt like it should have been the match elevator and was just kind of left as something that had happened. Takada just basically comes off as a guy with no creativity who’s constantly being put into creative situations. Does he have any idea how to fill time?
> 
> No to rail on Takada too hard, but the match just came alive when Hashimoto did anything. There was one bit where Takada kept at it with the kicks and Hash just BOMBARDED chops at him and the place went nuts. He looked phenomenal crawling out of Boston crab, like Goku lifting a boulder after getting crushed with it. And when he delivered his own kicks to combat Takada’s it was the most satisfying thing, especially that first (and tbf Takada sold it really great). I’ve talked about matches where everything felt important and nothing felt like it was wasted – that’s basically Hashimoto’s career. It’s why it’s up there as maybe my favourite wrestler.
> 
> The landed brainbuster was amazing, and Takada seemingly trying to fight it even as he was in the air right before Hash dropped him could not have looked much cooler.
> 
> *IS IT FIVE STARS? – * Definitely not. I have a slightly higher opinion of it now, yet I still don’t really put it “up there”, even as a MOTYC. Make no mistake though this match is seriously great.





Spoiler:  biggest nipples you've ever seen



Jerry Lawler v. Bill Dundee (CWA 6/6/83)
Magnum TA v. Tully Blanchard (NWA 11/28/85)
Randy Savage v. The Ultimate Warrior (WWF 3/24/91)
El Satanico v. Pirata Morgan (AAA 11/19/93)
Volk Han v. Kiyoshi Tamura (RINGS 1/22/97)
Volk Han v. Kiyoshi Tamura (RINGS 9/26/97)


----------



## Concrete

Yeah1993 burying classics!!!


----------



## Martins

*FINALLY* got around to watching Kobashi vs Takayama from 2000, and by God, that was disgusting. 

Takayama would knee Jesus himself square in the fucking face just for looking at him funny. Hell, that wouldn't even be necessary, he'd do it just because he can. Match hasn't even started and he's already looking to kill Kenta with a roundhouse to the side of the head :lmao Kobashi naturally answers in kind. Not even 5 minutes in and he's already DDT'ing the big motherfucker on the floor and chopping him square in the face. Takayama also proves you don't need no engineering degree to work a fuckin' arm; just knee it and drop your fat ass enough times on it and you'll render it nearly useless. Fantastic stuff, just an all-out war. 

"No closed fists " get the hell outta here with that bullshit.

******.*


----------



## Yeah1993

yay update



> *El Hijo del Santo v. Espanto Jr. (Monterrey 8/31/86)*
> 
> *BEFORE THE MATCH - * One of my favourite lucha pairs with 3 fucking awesome matches together under the belt, but this mask v. mask is by far their magnum opus. Man I remember a lot about this. Santo’s an amazing tecnico with a lot of evidence to prove that, but this is probably the #1 match I can remember where he gets to display it. I remember it being such an incredible fight from the bottom.
> 
> *THE MATCH - * Nope it’s an even better fight from the bottom than remembered. Always amazed me how emotive Santo is able to come off with a mask, and to boot, shitty video quality that feels like it’s using the whole building’s source of power to keep up. Right before the match even started he looked SUPER concerned, and that was justified when Espanto spent almost all of fall 1 and 2 tossing him around, laying him out, and by the end of fall 2, shredding his mask. I forgot Espanto has the best snap mares in history. Everyone else moves forward during a snap mare so it looks like they’re using their own momentum to propel the opponent forward. Espanto grips his opponent with both hands and swing his upper body so it looks like he’s tossing them by the neck. Really great visual.
> 
> End of fall 1 Santo comes out really gutted. He got I think three moves in altogether, and spends a bunch of time post-fall reflecting on the outside. Crouched, laying his head against the post and hitting his forehead with his palm. Children come up to him and pat on the back and face and hold his hand, and it’s the kind of thing you’d think is too pure for this stinky little form of entertainment we watch.
> 
> I absolutely love how Santo is able to put more behind his flashy moveset than just the flash – it actually looks like that what he needs to do to get out of a sticky situation. With that said I loved it more that in this match after a world’s beating, and already failing to come back with the flashy stuff, he goes straight to kneeing heads and throwing around back body drops. Awesome dive prep spot after that where he kicks Espanto’s legs from underneath him while Espanto is running. Unlike most spots where the receiver might bump against the ropes, here Espanto falls outside and lands on his knees on the concrete.
> 
> Espanto was awesome getting himself back in control. Snap mare sends Santo to the outside so he mega hurriedly follows him, then slams him on the concrete and swings a chair into his head. In the ring he’s like a kodiak bear ripping at a sheep, chewing on Santo’s head and (from what I could tell) spitting the blood into the air. His punches were nasty looking too. Santo had a great comeback, and the visual of him pulling at Espanto’s mask with one arm while barely even able to stand tops all other visuals. Exactly what you want a mask/mask match to be, and as far as I’m concerned it even goes a little beyond.
> 
> *IS IT FIVE STARS? - * Fuck yeah. It’s everything I remembered PLUS. I don’t remember the match having cuts, though; skips around a couple times like we miss five seconds every few minutes. Freezes at a couple points, too. Tried two different video sources, might have to check my DVD instead. Not like watching it again would hurt.





> *Blue Panther v. Atlantis (EMLL 8/9/91)*
> 
> *BEFORE THE MATCH – * Another lucha pair who had more than one awesome match, and another time they have – to me – a clear best of the bunch (I’ll watch their mask match for this five stars thing I think though). With that said I almost have no recollection of it at this point in time. DIVE IN.
> 
> *THE MATCH – * I haven’t seen Blue Panther in such a long time and enjoyed the shit out of this mostly because of it. Almost like watching him for the first time. Incredibly cool sell of an armdrag (or rather the bit where you stand up after an arm drag), and I loved his armlock takedown being more about the hold and not the takedown. He wrapped it on Atlantis and instead of throwing Atlantis down; he locked it in firmly so Atlantis looked like he was in so much pain he just couldn’t continue standing up. Panther also has some dumb in-theory holds but he’s so amazing at making them work. There was one where he basically gave Atlantis a headscissor takedown to the arm, and had his boot across Atlantis’ chin when the wound up on the floor. Another where in a surfboard he has his legs bizarrely placed so his feet wind up near Atlantis’ crotch. He totally comes off as a guy who you believe spends all his time finding different ways to bend tree branches to prepare for big matches like this.
> 
> Atlantis’ mat work hasn’t held up as much. Always thought he’s an excellent tecnico and definitely not a shabby mat worker overall in this, but I think I used to hold him just below that top tier of Casas or Panther. If this is any match to judge, and I’m pretty sure it is, he’s SEVERELY outclassed by the top tier. I probably only really held that opinion in the first place because I hadn’t run into ***** Navarro yet. Honestly I didn’t have any problem per se with the way Atlantis worked his holds here (little more force behind things, so it didn’t obviously look like Panther was just rolling himself would have been nice, though), but he’s working evenly with Panther and my brain couldn’t grasp that as realistic. It’s like if instead of focusing on the kicks, Super Tiger just kept to the mat against Fujiwara and they were consistently competitive. Wouldn’t have even brought his mat work up if Panther was destroying him like he should’ve been.
> 
> Atlantis winds up winning the first fall with some off-of-mat stuff anyway, so yeah. The match basically lifts into third gear from there. Bit of a sudden change, but with high stakes it feels fine. Third fall has some fantastic prevention of moves. Really simple stuff like Panther keeping himself back-on-the-ground (even when lifted up) to prevent a sharpshooter, or Atlantis making executing an octopus a living hell for Panther only with one leg out of place. Lead to some bits where they had to try different things to get the hold locked on.
> 
> The selling was…kind of questionable in the third fall, and it took me out of it a bit. They had that sort of thing going where they’d trade moves so you’d almost forget the previous move even happened. That in some way can absolutely work if pulled off right, yeah; I bring up “desperation move” as a huge positive all the time. I just think eating a dive and getting laid out, then delivering a German suplex, and then being on your feet ready to run is not pulling it off right. The grogginess was there, but it wasn’t there enough for me.
> 
> *IS IT FIVE STARS? – * I didn’t think it was even at all whatsoever close. Almost certain I’d not give it four stars any more. I really don’t want to say “doesn’t hold up” because that sounds like I hated it’s stinking guts because fuck the English language, but six years ago I would’ve said this was one of maybe the ten best matches I’d ever seen. So in that regard it really, really, really doesn’t hold up. I’m actually surprised how much I’ve gone done on it, even if I do think overall it is really good. Man this feeling is fucked, maybe I’ll watch it again in a week. I hate losing a favourite.





> *Jushin Liger v. The Great Sasuke (New Japan 4/16/94) *
> 
> *BEFORE THE MATCH – * It’s THAT J-Cup match. THAT one that all people who have watched puro for five minutes have seen. THAT one with the best, most fitting botch probably ever. Obviously been eight hundred years since I last saw this. Never really thought it was five stars but what the hell let’s watch it.
> 
> *THE MATCH – * Every bit of this match is fucking great. Sasuke may be head cheese in Michinoku Pro, but Michinoku Pro is bush league compared to New Japan. Liger was laying it in most of the beginning because he was just flat “better” and Sasuke hadn’t faced someone of Liger’s calibre before. Liger kind of acted like it too, the cockiness is important to the overall match. Loved how Liger kept getting tenser with his moves; shaking the head more, wrenching his arms, and you could hear him yelling to put torque in. Bit of arm work was really good. Sasuke sells it like a wolverine has a hold of it, and Liger swaps up moves so the ligaments or some shit don’t get too comfortable.
> 
> Brilliant comeback by Sasuke; hitting a gorgeous Asai moonsault and senton atomico, in a risk v. reward that paid off. It was all or nothing for nothing for him and he had to go for it. Like Liger he got more and more intense after that trying to put the match to rest. The bloody razor’s edge-style powerbomb was scary as fuck for a split second. Sasuke saving himself on a Liger-dodged senton by rolling was fucking awesome, and Liger shotei blasting him in the face was even better. Liger shaking his own arm after the pin attempt was awesome too. Liger still doesn’t shake being cocky as fuck when hitting the top rope frankensteiner. Can’t help himself but go for posing instead of a more effective pin. Guess what that was? Awesome. All awesome.
> 
> One nitpick that extends beyond this match - I hate how liberal juniors are with the tombstone piledriver. It’s like a routine bodyslam to them. Luckily for me when Liger ate one, he sold it WELL after he got his own move in. He’s another guy like Santo that’s stupidly good at selling emotion despite not seeing his face.
> 
> The botched finish is iconic (at least among English-speaking puro fans, I know jack all beyond that), and I honestly think it’s one of the best finishes of all time. Liger couldn’t even stop acting cocky after Sasuke had actually got the lead. Sasuke was “indie guy”, Liger was “big junior star.” He clapped like an asshole when Sasuke tripped up and signalled that the match was basically 500% his now, and it cost him everything. In addition, after that frankensteiner, Sasuke took a hell of a German suplex, a suplex to the outside of the fucking ring, a dive, a kick to the face, and more. He was out of it so that one slip up is so damn fitting. This match is so well put together.
> 
> *IS IT FIVE STARS? – * Like I said I never really thought it was, but it holds up incredibly well. Really is a great match. Definitely watching 7/8 again.





> *Wild Pegasus v. The Great Sasuke (New Japan 4/16/94) *
> 
> *BEFORE THE MATCH – * It’s THAT J-Cup match. The THAT final of the THAT THAT. Obviously been eight hundred years since I last saw this. Never really thought it was five stars but what the hell boobies.
> 
> Also, wow, I love the ring name Wild Pegasus. It’s really thematic yet doesn’t force you into any particular theme. You can just be a dude in white pants and you’re playing the role.
> 
> *THE MATCH – * First ten minutes went by and I basically felt nothing. Solid wrestling for sure but not a lot of rhyme or reason to it, I suppose I’d say? I’m trying to remember stuff that stood out as particularly good and I can’t even think of anything. There a cool Sasuke leg drop where Benoit turned his head at exactly the right time so as to avoid a legit smack across the chin, but the way he did it, he made it look as if Sasuke’s leg was turning it. That was neat. Benoit has a great bridging German as always.
> 
> Match picks up into the hot finish run and it does get better from there. Still not GREAT, though. Sasuke’s selling was really good especially of his leg, and his big moves like the Sasuke special like the Liger match felt like necessary risks to take. Benoit’s offense off of the mat looked great. My favourite part was actually Liger being there with the M-Pro guys cheering Sasuke back into the ring after a big move.
> 
> This was fine wrestling and an overall good match, but it mostly didn’t do a WHOLE lot for me, and unlike Panther/Atlantis I’m pretty sure a rewatch won’t fix that.
> 
> *IS IT FIVE STARS? – * Yeah it’s not even close. I loved eight years ago when every puro match was something new and fresh to me, almost like I was watching a new gimmick match each time, or some kind of new cartoon, but those days ended a long, long time ago. While most stuff I think undoubtedly holds up as fantastic (if even if not “as five stars”), some other stuff doesn’t. I don’t even think there’s much wrong with this match but I never felt it was picking up to be truly great. Certainly good but I'm struggling to find interesting things to really praise it for.





Spoiler:  10,000 word thesis on why lames cameron’s avatar is a shit movie



Jerry Lawler v. Bill Dundee (CWA 6/6/83)
Magnum TA v. Tully Blanchard (NWA 11/28/85)
El Hijo del Santo v. Espanto Jr. (Monterrey 8/31/86)
Randy Savage v. The Ultimate Warrior (WWF 3/24/91)
El Satanico v. Pirata Morgan (AAA 11/19/93)
Volk Han v. Kiyoshi Tamura (RINGS 1/22/97)
Volk Han v. Kiyoshi Tamura (RINGS 9/26/97)


----------



## NastyYaffa

New addition~!

*30-Man Royal Rumble (WWF 01/19/92)*

If someone asked me to show them a match that would give them a look at WWE at it's absolute best, I would show them this. It sure isn't my favorite WWE match ever, I would rank quite a few matches above it, but it's the perfect combination of fun, wacky characters, heat, great performances, storytelling & great presentation. Great performances by Shawn Michaels, Roddy Piper, Randy Savage, The Undertaker, Jim Duggan & really everyone involved, except for Virgil who came in & threw some of the worst punches I've seen. :lol Other than him, everyone was on point. Monsoon & especially Heenan were outstanding on commentary. And of course, how could I forget Ric f'n Flair? THE MAN. What a performance, what a man. What a match!


----------



## NastyYaffa

Bumping this with a tag match that I just fell in love with...

*KENTA & Naomichi Marufuji vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Yoshinari Ogawa (NOAH 04/25/04)*
First time watching this & I was absolutely blown away by how absolutely perfect it was. Seriously couldn't have asked for a better match layout. It started off with KENTAFuji taking out Ogawa right away & then going after Misawa - but Misawa fights back & sooner than you know, him & Ogawa are in complete control. They beat the shit out of KENTA for a loooong time, KENTA was a tremendous FIP & the heavies sure knew how to work over him in super compelling fashion. Eventually KENTA gets some offense in & he is just CRAWLING desperately to make a tag to his partner, but Misawa had taken care of Marufuji outside. I love it. Misawa & Ogawa continue to work over KENTA, but now KENTA gets a brief comeback in with his quick combos & he FINALLY makes the tag to Marafuji - Marafuji makes a super energetic comeback, but the shine of the juniors doesn't last long as Misawa & Ogawa gain the control VERY quickly. Marufuji works as a FIP for quite a while, eventually he starts to get some offense in as he starts to headbutt Ogawa, but then Ogawa pokes him in the eye. What a dick move! Brilliant. The heavies continue to work over KENTAFuji in awesome fashion, but then Marufuji counters Misawa's move and just BLASTS him with an awesome looking superkick! Might seriously be the most devastating superkick the man has ever thrown. Then the juniors make the heavies pay with Marufuji destroying Misawa on the ramp w/ a Shiranui & KENTA throwing a nice Busaiku Knee to Ogawa who was on the apron. That ruled. The match continues to rule with another awesome moment in the ring as KENTA starts doing Kawada Kicks to Kawada's biggest rival in Misawa, which leads to Misawa waking up like a motherfuckin' demon! Then the finishing stretch kicks in & it's just unbelievably hot. This was perfect professional wrestling. *******


----------



## Purpleyellowgreen

bret vs shawn WM 12

RVD vs Jerry Lynn Living Dangerously 1999

Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle SummerSlam 2001

Mankind vs Shawn IYH Mind Games

To many to list really.


----------



## SMetalWorld

My list... I haven't watch much from the Indies but I'll give you my favorite matches that I watched on WWE:

- Hulk Hogan vs. Ultimate Warrior (Wrestlemania 6)
- Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind (In Your House: Mind Games 1996)
- Bret Hart vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin (Wrestlemania 13)
- Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels - Hell In A Cell (In Your House: Badd Blood) my all-time favorite match ever.
- Bret Hart, Owen Hart, British Bulldog, Brian Pillman and Jim, the Anvil, Neidhart vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin, Ken Shamrock, Hawk, Animal, and Goldust (In Your House: Canadian Stampede)
[On the side note, has In Your House PPVs have fantastic matches, isn't it?]
- Triple H vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin - Three Stages of Hell (No Way Out 2001)
- Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock (Wrestlemania 17)
- Hulk Hogan vs. The Rock (Wrestlemania 18)
- Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania 25)
- Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania 26)
- John Cena vs. CM Punk (Money In The Bank 2011)
- Undertaker vs. Triple H - Hell in a Cell (Wrestlemania 28)


----------



## Martins

Not reeeeeeally *****, but I'm honestly thinking about going ****3/4 for Hybrid Dolphins VS The Young Bucks from DDT4 2009.

Pretty sure it's the first time I've ever seen it, and holy shit was Danielson in a nasty fuckin' mood for this. Roddy's always been a hard-hitting motherfucker, but the way Bryan just straight up kicked both Nick and Matt's asses made Roddy look like fuckin' Bayley in comparison. I dunno what that makes The Bucks, but they got legit mauled in this one. 

Plenty of moments that made me let out a shocked/slightly maniacal laugh during the match, but there's one in particular where Bryan's just casually wrecking Matt's shit, so Nick gets up on the ropes, just innocently cheering for his poor brother; Dragon just turns around, completely unprovoked, SPITS IN NICK'S FACE AND SENDS HIM FLYING OFF THE APRON WITH A SAVAGE FUCKIN' ELBOW :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao Amazing.

Probably *****3/4* for this disgusting spectacle and hope that Bryan got a restraining order from The Bucks after this. I mean, fuck me.


----------



## NastyYaffa

Martins said:


> Not reeeeeeally *****, but I'm honestly thinking about going ****3/4 for Hybrid Dolphins VS The Young Bucks from DDT4 2009.
> 
> Pretty sure it's the first time I've ever seen it, and holy shit was Danielson in a nasty fuckin' mood for this. Roddy's always been a hard-hitting motherfucker, but the way Bryan just straight up kicked both Nick and Matt's asses made Roddy look like fuckin' Bayley in comparison. I dunno what that makes The Bucks, but they got legit mauled in this one.
> 
> Plenty of moments that made me let out a shocked/slightly maniacal laugh during the match, but there's one in particular where Bryan's just casually wrecking Matt's shit, so Nick gets up on the ropes, just innocently cheering for his poor brother; Dragon just turns around, completely unprovoked, SPITS IN NICK'S FACE AND SENDS HIM FLYING OFF THE APRON WITH A SAVAGE FUCKIN' ELBOW :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao Amazing.
> 
> Probably *****3/4* for this disgusting spectacle and hope that Bryan got a restraining order from The Bucks after this. I mean, fuck me.


That is a match that could go to 5 stars for me any day. Fucking love watching Roddy & especially Bryan beat the fucking shit out of The Bucks. :mark: :mark: :mark:

Fun fact: Bryan actually accidentally legit knocked Matt out in that match w/ his corner rapid fire kicks. Brutal stuff.


----------



## jiraffejustin

I don't do the ratings thing, but I think keeping a "five star match" list is something that's more manageable than the OCD that is rating everything you watch. I'll try to start keeping a list of my five star matches. 

My first entry:

*MS1 vs Sangre Chicana - EMLL 9/23/83*

This match feels like a legitimate contender for the greatest match of all-time. It's the most brutal match of all-time, and it doesn't need barbed wire, light tubes, tables, ladders, a steel cage, fire, thumbtacks, or any other "foreign" or "international" object. It just needs two dudes being badasses. They punch each other in the face, and they dive full bore at one another. The beauty in this brutal match is the selling, especially from Chicana. He gives himself completely to his role, and it's a sell job better than anything you'll see this year. He gets jumped pre-bell, and he sells the beat down the whole match. He is bleeding all over the place, and has this dazed look on his face as he fights through loss of blood and what I guess would be considered "concussion like symptoms" nowadays. But both guys do a tremendous job selling the exhaustion, blood loss, and magnitude of this match. It feels on par with some of the greatest acting performances in some of my favorite films, which is something that I rarely ever see in pro wrestling. This match was a revelation to me, and I'll hold it in the same regard as I do my other favorite pieces of art.


My list:
MS1 vs Sangre Chicana - EMLL 9/23/83


----------



## NastyYaffa

Here's my updated list w/ 2017 additions!



> *AWA*
> 
> Curt Hennig vs. Nick Bockwinkel (11/15/86)
> 
> *NWA/WCW*
> 
> Ric Flair vs. Terry Funk (11/15/89)
> Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio Jr. (10/26/97)
> 
> *WWE*
> 
> Sgt. Slaughter vs. The Iron Sheik (06/16/84)
> 30-Man Royal Rumble (01/19/92)
> Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart (03/20/94)
> Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin (03/23/97)
> Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker (10/05/97)
> Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker (04/05/09)
> CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan (05/20/12)
> Daniel Bryan, Kane & Ryback vs. Dean Ambrose, Roman Reigns & Seth Rollins (12/16/12)
> Brock Lesnar vs. CM Punk (08/18/13)
> John Cena vs. Daniel Bryan (08/18/13)
> Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn (02/27/14)
> Daniel Bryan vs. Triple H (04/06/14)
> Daniel Bryan vs. Roman Reigns (02/22/15)
> Sami Zayn vs. Shinsuke Nakamura (04/01/16)
> Dash Wilder & Scott Dawson vs. Johnny Gargano & Tommaso Ciampa (11/19/16)
> *AJ Styles vs. Brock Lesnar (11/19/17)*
> 
> *NJPW*
> 
> Riki Choshu vs. Shinya Hashimoto (08/02/96)
> Kazuchika Okada vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi (10/14/13)
> AJ Styles vs. Minoru Suzuki (08/01/14)
> Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Kota Ibushi (01/04/15)
> Kazuchika Okada vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi (01/04/16)
> *Kazuchika Okada vs. Katsuyori Shibata (04/09/17)*
> *Kazuchika Okada vs. Kenny Omega (08/12/17)*
> 
> *AJPW*
> 
> Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (09/01/90)
> Akira Taue, Jumbo Tsuruta & Masanobu Fuchi vs. Kenta Kobashi, Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada (05/22/92)
> Dan Kroffat & Doug Furnas vs. Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi (05/25/92)
> Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi & Mitsuharu Misawa (12/03/93)
> Kenta Kobashi & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada (05/21/94)
> Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada (06/03/94)
> Akira Taue vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (04/15/95)
> Kenta Kobashi & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada (06/09/95)
> Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Jun Akiyama & Mitsuharu Misawa (12/06/96)
> Kenta Kobashi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (01/20/97)
> Kenta Kobashi vs. Jun Akiyama (07/24/98)
> Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Jun Akiyama (02/27/00)
> Kenta Kobashi vs. Yoshihiro Takayama (05/26/00)
> 
> *NOAH*
> 
> Mitsuharu Misawa & Yoshinari Ogawa vs. KENTA & Naomichi Marufuji (04/25/04)
> Kenta Kobashi vs. Yoshihiro Takayama (04/25/04)
> 
> *Kensuke Office*
> 
> Akihiko Ito, Atsushi Aoki, KENTA & Kenta Kobashi vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima, Kensuke Sasaki, Kento Miyahara & Takashi Okita (08/17/08)
> 
> *BJW*
> 
> *Hideki Suzuki vs. Yuji Okabayashi (05/05/17)*
> 
> *ROH*
> 
> Bryan Danielson vs. Low Ki (03/30/02)
> Bryan Danielson vs. Paul London (04/12/03)
> Samoa Joe vs. CM Punk (12/04/04)
> Samoa Joe vs. Kenta Kobashi (10/01/05)
> Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness (08/12/06)
> Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA (09/16/06)
> Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness (06/09/07)
> Takeshi Morishima vs. Bryan Danielson (08/25/07)
> Nigel McGuinness vs. Bryan Danielson (02/23/08)
> Nigel McGuinness vs. Bryan Danielson (11/22/08)
> El Generico vs. Kevin Steen (12/18/10)
> 
> *PWG*
> 
> Chris Hero vs. Bryan Danielson (09/04/09)
> 
> *EVOLVE*
> 
> *Timothy Thatcher vs. Zack Sabre Jr. (02/25/17)*
> 
> *CWF Mid-Atlantic*
> 
> *Trevor Lee vs. Chip Day (03/25/17)*


----------



## MC

> *2017*​
> *New Japan*
> 
> Kazuchika Okada vs Kenny Omega- New Japan Pro Wrestling: Wrestle Kingdom 11
> 
> Kazuchika Okada vs Katsuyori Shibata- New Japan Pro Wrestling: Sakura Genesis
> 
> Kazuchika Okada vs Kenny Omega- New Japan Pro Wrestling: Dominion
> 
> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Tetsuya Naito- New Japan Pro Wrestling: G1 Climax Day 17
> 
> Kenny Omega vs Tetsuya Naito- New Japan Pro Wrestling: G1 Climax Final
> 
> Kenny Omega vs Tomohiro Ishii- New Japan Pro Wrestling: G1 special Day Two
> 
> *All Japan*
> Kento Miyahara vs Shuji Ishikawa- All Japan Pro Wrestling: 45th Anniversary Show
> 
> *WWE*
> The Authors of Pain vs DIY and The Revival- WWE: NXT TakeOver: Orlando



I would have others but I forgot all the ratings I give :lol


----------



## T Hawk

I have yet to do one of these so I'll have a go :mark:

2017 - Okada Kazuchika vs. Kenny Omega - WrestleKingdom 11
2017 - Okada Kazuchika vs. Kenny Omega - Dominion
2017 - Okada Kazuchika vs. Kenny Omega - G1 Climax
2017 - Okada Kazuchika vs. Suzuki Minoru - New Beginnings
2017 - Okada Kazuchika vs. Suzuki Minoru - G1 Climax
2017 - Okada Kazuchika vs. Cody - G1 USA
2017 - Okada Kazuchika vs. Evil - G1 Climax
2017 - Okada Kazuchika vs. Shibata Katsuyori - Sakurai Genesis
2017 - Takahashi Hiromu vs. Kushida - WretsleKingdom 11
2017 - Roman Reigns vs. Braun Strowman vs. Brock Lesnar vs. Samoan Joe
2017 - Young Bucks vs. Hardy Boyz - ROH
2016 - Kenny Omega vs. Goto Hirooki - G1 Climax
2016 - Okada Kazuchika vs. Tanahashi Hiroshi - G1 Climax
2016 - Okada Kazuchika vs. Tanahashi Hiroshi - WrestleKingdom 10
2016 - Okada Kazuchika vs. Ishii Tomohiro - G1 Climax
2016 - Sekimoto Daisuke vs. Zeus - Champion Carnival
2016 - Young Bucks vs, Sydal, Ricochet, Ospreay - PWG
2016 - Nakamura Shinsuke vs. Sami Zayn - NXT Takeover
2016 - The Revival vs. DIY - NXT Takeover
2016 - Ricochet vs. Will Ospreay - BOSJ
2015 - Nakamura Shinsuke vs. Ibushi Kota - WretsleKingdom 9
2015 - Okada Kazuchika vs. Tenryu Genichiro
2015 - Kenny Omega vs. Kushida - Dominion
2015 - Bayley vs. Sasha Banks - NXT Takeover
2015 - Roman Reigns vs. Brock Lesnar - WretsleMania
2015 - Okada Kazuchika vs. Tanahashi Hiroshi - WretsleKingdom 9

I'm sure I'm forgetting a few but these are all the hits IMO


----------



## Dmight

1998 WCW halloween havoc GOLDBERG vs DDP

1994 WWF wrestlemania ladder match MICHAELS vs RAMON
1997 WWF wresltemania submission match HART vs AUSTIN
1997 WWF badd blood hell in a cell UNDERTAKER vs MICHAELS
2004 WWE backlash hardcore match ORTON vs CACTUS JACK
2005 WWE vengeance hell in a cell BATISTA vs HHH
2006 WWE no way out UNDERTAKER vs ANGLE
2007 WWE raw CENA vs MICHAELS
2008 WWE no mercy ladder match JERICHO vs MICHAELS
2009 WWE the bash title vs mask JERICHO vs MYSTERIO
2010 WWE wrestlemania streak vs career UNDERTAKER vs MICHAELS
2011 WWE money in the bank CENA vs PUNK
2012 WWE wrestlemania hell in a cell UNDERTAKER vs HHH
2012 WWE tlc HELL NO&RYBACK vs SHIELD
2013 WWE summerslam CENA vs BRYAN
2014 WWE summerslam CENA vs LESNAR
2014 WWE survivor series TEAM CENA vs TEAM AUTHORITY
2016 WWE survivor series LESNAR vs GOLDBERG

2005 TNA unbreakable DANIELS vs STYLES vs JOE
2005 TNA against all odds iron man STYLES vs DANIELS
2005 TNA turning point STYLES vs JOE
2008 TNA lockdown cage match ANGLE vs JOE

2002 ROH all star extravaganza STYLES vs DANIELSON
2002 ROH round robin challenge DANIELSON vs LOW-KI
2002 ROH night of appreciation STYLES vs LOW-KI
2004 ROH testing the limit DANIELSON vs ARIES
2004 ROH midnight express reunion JOE vs DANIELSON
2004 ROH world title classic JOE vs PUNK
2004 ROH joe vs punk II JOE vs PUNK
2004 ROH all star extravaganza JOE vs PUNK
2005 ROH redemption four way elimination DANIELS vs PUNK vs GIBSON vs JOE
2005 ROH final battle KENTA vs LOW-KI
2006 ROH glory by honor DANIELSON vs KENTA

2013 NJPW invasion attack TANAHASHI vs OKADA
2015 NJPW invasion attack STYLES vs IBUSHI
2016 NJPW wrestle kingdom NAKAMURA vs STYLES
2016 NJPW wrestle kingdom OKADA vs TANAHASHI
2016 NJPW king of pro wrestling OKADA vs MARUFUJI
2017 NJPW wrestle kingdom NAITO vs TANAHASHI
2017 NJPW g1 climax TANAHASHI vs SABRE

2015 LU all night long PUMA vs MUNDO
2015 LU grave consequences casket match MUERTES vs FENIX

2003 IWA mid south when hero met punk two out of three falls PUNK vs HERO

2009 DRAGON GATE USA open the untouchable gate DANIELSON vs NARUKI DOI


----------



## WorldClass

This a cool thread, I'm going to rewatch some of the matches I think are 5 star matches and get back to here asap


----------



## DoctorWhosawhatsit

- HBK vs. Taker - Hell in a Cell + Wrestlemania 25 + Wrestlemania 26
- Hart vs. Austin - Wrestlemania 13
- HBK vs. Austin - Wrestlemania 14
- HHH vs. Cactus Jack - Royal Rumble
- HHH vs. HBK - Summer Slam
- CM Punk vs. Samoa Joe - Joe/Punk II
- Bryan Danielson vs. Kenta - Death Before Dishonor
- Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima - Manhattan Mayhem
- Bryan Danielson vs. Roderick Strong - Vendetta
- Bryan Danielson vs. Samoa Joe - Midnight Express Reunion
- AJ Styles vs. Paul London - Night of the Grudges
- AJ Styles vs. Samoa Joe vs. Christopher Daniels - Unbreakable
- AJ Styles vs. John Cena - Summer Slam
- CM Punk vs. Brock Lesnar - Summer Slam
- CM Punk vs. John Cena - Money in the Bank
- Randy Orton vs. Mick Foley - Backlash
- Omega vs. Okada- Wrestlekingdom 
- Styles vs. Nakamura- Wrestlekingdom
- 2001 Royal Rumble Match
- Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit- Royal Rumble
- HBK vs. HHH vs. Chris Benoit- Wrestlemania 20


----------



## antoniomare007

Yeah1993 said:


> yay update
> 
> 
> BEFORE THE MATCH – Unlike the two matches above I really really liked this but people around me call it a MOTYC, and wasn’t really getting that so much as it’s just a great match. Has one of the best spots ever though (I’m saying that a lot aren’t I) Hashimoto in 1996 is a potential WOTYC, but he really doesn’t have that ONE amazing match to me the whole year. Maybe this will be it now?


If you don't think the CHOOOSHUUUUUUUUUUU match at the G-1 is amazing then I'm pretty sure you don't have a soul, shame my breh 

And the Takada match is outstanding, I'm reading through your reviews and it's pretty weird how you toss out all the context out of most of these matches. What makes them special as they are (don't care if they are "5 snowflakes or not, besides at this point we are at like what? *******7/17 stars as the new measuring stick? :grin2 is precisely the story surrounding them.



Yeah1993 said:


> yay update
> 
> *Wild Pegasus v. The Great Sasuke (New Japan 4/16/94)*
> 
> BEFORE THE MATCH – It’s THAT J-Cup match. The THAT final of the THAT THAT. Obviously been eight hundred years since I last saw this. Never really thought it was five stars but what the hell boobies.
> 
> Also, wow, I love the ring name Wild Pegasus. It’s really thematic yet doesn’t force you into any particular theme. You can just be a dude in white pants and you’re playing the role.
> 
> THE MATCH – First ten minutes went by and I basically felt nothing. Solid wrestling for sure but not a lot of rhyme or reason to it, I suppose I’d say? I’m trying to remember stuff that stood out as particularly good and I can’t even think of anything. There a cool Sasuke leg drop where Benoit turned his head at exactly the right time so as to avoid a legit smack across the chin, but the way he did it, he made it look as if Sasuke’s leg was turning it. That was neat. Benoit has a great bridging German as always.
> 
> Match picks up into the hot finish run and it does get better from there. Still not GREAT, though. Sasuke’s selling was really good especially of his leg, and his big moves like the Sasuke special like the Liger match felt like necessary risks to take. Benoit’s offense off of the mat looked great. My favourite part was actually Liger being there with the M-Pro guys cheering Sasuke back into the ring after a big move.
> 
> This was fine wrestling and an overall good match, but it mostly didn’t do a WHOLE lot for me, and unlike Panther/Atlantis I’m pretty sure a rewatch won’t fix that.
> 
> IS IT FIVE STARS? – Yeah it’s not even close. I loved eight years ago when every puro match was something new and fresh to me, almost like I was watching a new gimmick match each time, or some kind of new cartoon, but those days ended a long, long time ago. While most stuff I think undoubtedly holds up as fantastic (if even if not “as five stars”), some other stuff doesn’t. I don’t even think there’s much wrong with this match but I never felt it was picking up to be truly great. Certainly good but I'm struggling to find interesting things to really praise it for.


I've always thought the best of the mid 90's Junior matches with Benoit was the 96' BOSJ Semifinal against Eddie. The way they bring alive a dead crowd by simple storytelling amazes me to this day. 

The Super J Cup always been overrated aside from Liger/Sasuke *shrugs*


----------



## Yeah1993

antoniomare007 said:


> If you don't think the CHOOOSHUUUUUUUUUUU match at the G-1 is amazing then I'm pretty sure you don't have a soul, shame my breh
> 
> And the Takada match is outstanding, I'm reading through your reviews and it's pretty weird how you toss out all the context out of most of these matches. What makes them special as they are (don't care if they are "5 snowflakes or not, besides at this point we are at like what? *******7/17 stars as the new measuring stick? :grin2 is precisely the story surrounding them.


I probably think the Choshu match is around the same level. It's not that I don't think they're awesome, I just thought they weren't at a real all time great level, or even a MOTYC. I watched them both originally (I think?) on the 96 yearbook, and 1996 is just an insane, insane year that has tons of legit or near-classics. I don't say that about too many years, if that means anything. 

Misawa/Akiyama v. Taue/Kawada/Taue 5/23, 7/9, 11/29 and the RWTL finals 
Toyoda v. Kudo 5/5
Han v. Tamura 9/25
Kawada v. Taue 3/31
CMLL tag 11/22 and on 11/29
Santo v. Dandy v. Casas 12/4
M-Pro tag on 10/10 and 12/16
Inoki fest tag on 12/1
Michaels v. Mankind at Mind Games
Benoit v. Guerrero at BOSJ
Hart v. Austin at Survivor Series
Ishikawa/Otsuka v. Ikeda/Ono 10/30
Taue v. Williams 4/20
Finlay v. Regal from Uncensored
Han v. Kohsaka 8/24
Ohtani v. El Samurai 1/21

HNNNNNNNNNGHHHHHHHH 1996 get in me. And the amazing matches keep rolling after even without them being at the level above. If it also helps, I think Hashimoto was one of the 3 or 5 best in the world in the year just because he was amazing every time he did anything, even if the match didn't wind up being amazing. Even the individual memorable moments. The leg sweep in the Takada match is one of the best spots ever, the brainbuster on Yamazaki at the January Dome show show has always officially to me been "THAT brainbuster", he screams CHOSHUUUUUUUUU and it's amazing. Have you seen Hashimoto/Junji Hirata v. Anjoh/Takayama 2/25? Hash chops a championship belt into someone's head IIRC. :lmao It was 96 that made that planted the seeds to making Hash my favourite puro guy ever.

Actually other than Kawada there's nobody I'd definitely put above him for 96. I guess it's weird I didn't think he had any real MOTYC for him being maybe the #2 guy in the world but it is what it is. And by MOTYC I mean ACTUALLY one of the tippity toppity best matches of the year. When I "YES" matches in the MOTYC thread I don't actually think they're all on that high a level, I just consider them very very good and worth saving on a list. 1996 Hashimoto would get many a YES for 1996.


If I've been ignoring any context around those other two, do share.  I wrote all that nearly a year ago now so IDR what I said or didn't said. :wtf2 I don't think I've actually seen that Choshu match in over five years.

I believe the current bar is 18 stars and 1/6th, btw. Until January 4th anyway where it'll probably jump a few stars.



antoniomare007 said:


> I've always thought the best of the mid 90's Junior matches with Benoit was the 96' BOSJ Semifinal against Eddie. The way they bring alive a dead crowd by simple storytelling amazes me to this day.
> 
> The Super J Cup always been overrated aside from Liger/Sasuke *shrugs*


I absolutely agree with all of this. I think I'd call Benoit/Guerrero the best NJ junior match of the 90s period outside of maybe Liger/Sano from 1990? Not that I don't think there's plenty of great stuff, but I'm lower on some of it than a lot of people. Always really liked every (?) Benoit/Liger a lot though.

I've still never seen Samurai/Kanemoto from BOSJ 97 though. Meltzer gave 5 stars to that one I think. Actually that's a cool thread idea. Watching matches we've always planned to see but never got around to. WE COULD FILL IN OUR GAPS PEOPLE. I've never seen Hashimoto v. Hase from 94. :$


----------



## ExGrodzki

*9/4/91* Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada / Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue

*5/25/92* Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi / Doug Furnas & Dan Kroffat	

*11/27/92* Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada / Kenta Kobashi & Giant Baba

*6/3/94* Mitsuharu Misawa / Toshiaki Kawada

*03/01/2003* Kenta Kobashi / Mitsuharu Misawa

*07/10/2004* Kenta Kobashi / Jun Akiyama

*10/01/2005* Kenta Kobashi / Samoa Joe

*03/31/2006* CIMA, Dragon Kid & Ryo Saito / Genki Horiguchi, Masato Yoshino & Naruki Doi 

*10/10/2016* Kazuchika Okada / Naomichi Marufuji

*04/09/2017* Kazuchika Okada / Katsuyori Shibata

EDIT: Gotta check my list when I get home, I think I have a couple more.


----------



## Violent By Design

Anyone got any updates or matches they want to add?


----------



## NastyYaffa

Violent By Design said:


> Anyone got any updates or matches they want to add?


I am currently doing a big re-watch of every match I've given 5* to, so far a couple of have dropped, but also a couple of new additions! Will be posting the full list here once I am done


----------



## Yeah1993

Whoa, I forgot I posted a bunch of stuff in here for like two weeks. Of course that project went nowhere. Decent two weeks though!


----------



## Violent By Design

NastyYaffa said:


> I am currently doing a big re-watch of every match I've given 5* to, so far a couple of have dropped, but also a couple of new additions! Will be posting the full list here once I am done


Looking forward to it.


----------



## redunk808

Chronological:
Sangre Chicana vs MS-1 (EMLL, 9/23/1983)
Ric Flair vs. Ricky Morton (NWA, 7/11/1986)
Nick Bockwinkel vs. Curt Hennig (AWA, 11/28/1986)
Carlos Colon vs. Stan Hansen (WWC, 1/6/1987)
Yuki Ishikawa vs. Daisuke Ikeda (Futen, 4/24/2005)


----------

