# Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Reboot initiated. Appropriate PPV tagline, tbhayley. Point for you if you can guess it.

Previous thread: The Big Bang



> THE CAL SCALE
> 
> NO = -1
> DUD-* = 0
> ...


As always, watch MENG, Evil Doink, & The Undertaker goodies on the regular. And you know what, Bobby Eaton ffs. Lets nip this in the bud and get everyone to worship immediately.


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## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

First? Yes, go watch Meng vs Benoit people. Stay away from Taker though.


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## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

The answer you seek is Slamboree 97. Nice ring psychology in a strategic sense in Swagger/Cesaro. Pretty good match albeit the finish is debatable but with Rusev's power I suppose you gotta make the lock formidable. Ace Heyman promo, nice Jericho/Wyatt sitdown; I personally enjoyed the Cena promo too. MR WONDERFUL, Hall looking damn good considering he was seemingly next for the reaper of wrestling for years. Goodness though the Steph/Brie segment while a clear fabricated segment and attempt to further Steph as vindictive was horrid. All else was middling imo. 

On two side notes: its too bad how not much creatively has been done with Y2J/Bray since the two non cookie cutter segments went real well. also, perhaps not a popular opinion but I have enjoyed that Cena/Lesnar havent touched yet. Augments the feeling when they do lock up ala Shield/wyatts (albeit not THAT magical). Ive read alot of people are having trouble getting into this, I dont think its been executed that bad. Feels like a legitamate heavyweight title fight to me. That could just be the Brock effect and people can think im full of shit but im entitled to my opinion.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

Nah. Just Undertaker is all people need to see now. Gots to edit that post now b/c my hand was forced.


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## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

Slow day, am excited for Summerslam despite not watching a single RAW towards it. Brock/Cena will be worked vastly different to their ER match, it will be great (****-****1/4 borderline imo). Not on the level of the first match however.


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## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

Missed Raw.  Is the Hogan celebration with Lesnar crashing the party the only real thing worth seeing?


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## Biblet2014 (Jul 11, 2014)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

Heyy! new thread! on topic though any Ruthless Agression/PG Era DVD's I should try to get?


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## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

Should have named it Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Bobby Eaton and Specimen Inferior to Bobby Eaton


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## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

What were the main Cena/Brock segments on Raw? Was there a Brock/Heyman promo, a Cena promo and the Brock/Legends encounter?


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## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

Basically:
- Heyman rapped
- Cena cut a promo in response
- Bork crashed Hogan's birthday, was face to face with Cena for 15 seconds, left, and then yelled, "I'M A MERCENARY!"


Oh, and #StopBuryingCesaro. What the hell did he do to deserve this? Did he kidnap HHH and Stephanie's children and then Cesaro Swing HHH and Stephanie for 3 hours while their children watched while bound and gagged? :side: :cesaro


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## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

These thread titles are all ROH show names. 

I've got to admit, Cena vs. Brock this Sunday is probably the most I've been hyped for a single wrestling match since... Cena vs. Brock two years ago. :lol


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## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

I'm only hyped because they haven't really interacted in two years.

GG WWE. Well played


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## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

Ya know Cody, we usually wait until the threat gets to around 10,000 posts before we make a new one :side:.

Loved Heyman's promo on Raw. Guy can fucking sell ANYTHING. Except the Network because all that 9.99 bullshit makes me wanna kill people.


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## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*



PGSucks said:


> Basically:
> - Heyman rapped
> - Cena cut a promo in response
> - Bork crashed Hogan's birthday, was face to face with Cena for 15 seconds, left, and then yelled, "I'M A MERCENARY!"
> ...


: Yeah, i managed to catch Raw on YT. Heyman was GOLD tonight, and i actually enjoyed Raw this week. Loved the Brock segments, esp the Birthday bash.

Cena/Lesnar should be good.

Did Flair/Hogan have some words backstage or something, as Hogan got a cold reception from Flair in the ring lol.


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## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

New thread already? Unexpected.

You know what is else was unexpected? Robin Williams' death Ambrose coming out of the box 8*D


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## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

Raw last night was a mixed bag. Some fun stuff and I enjoyed Sheamus vs Orton (big surprise I know) but the main event felt like a waste. They wasted 20 minutes on absolutely nothing only to end with Brock and Cena having a short staredown. Only good thing coming out of it was "I am a mercenary!". :lol

Looking forward to SummerSlam even though I wont catch it live. So many different angles, for once WWE were able to let more than one or two storylines run on a weekly basis. Cena/Brock, Brie/Steph, Orton/Reigns, Rusev/Swagger, Paige/AJ, Rollins/Ambrose. Too bad Sheamus and Cesaro are seemingly not on the card. Just pair them together last minute so they put on a solid match.

And Heyman could sell the most aging, out of shape, spotty, basement dwelling neckbeard virgin IWC smark stereotype to the hottest girl in the world.


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## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Heyman mocking Cena's 'rapping' was fucking golden. Cena trying to rip off Heyman though was horrid lol.

With Heyman it's all so natural, why it works so well. Plus most times he's a genius.


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## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*



Choke2Death said:


> Raw last night was a mixed bag. Some fun stuff and I enjoyed Sheamus vs Orton (big surprise I know) but the main event felt like a waste. They wasted 20 minutes on absolutely nothing only to end with Brock and Cena having a short staredown. Only good thing coming out of it was "I am a mercenary!". :lol
> 
> Looking forward to SummerSlam even though I wont catch it live. So many different angles, for once WWE were able to let more than one or two storylines run on a weekly basis. Cena/Brock, Brie/Steph, Orton/Reigns, Rusev/Swagger, Paige/AJ, Rollins/Ambrose. Too bad Sheamus and Cesaro are seemingly not on the card. Just pair them together last minute so they put on a solid match.


Not just that most matches have a build, but it seems there are alot of motivations by competators in these fights. while top to bottom the in ring talent is strong right now, oftentimes in the midcard especially we have no idea other than filling time why the wrestlers are fighting since animosity is absent, which can make matches hard to care about. 

This year's Summerslam undercard while the quality of the motivations/build has been a mixed bag, we know Orton is gunning for Reigns since Reigns in Randy's eyes screwed Orton from what is his as well as Randy's need to show that he's being underestimated since his recent big match losses; we know why Brie and Steph are fighting; Bray is going after Jericho to rid the world of what Bray thinks is a false prophet misleading the people: Ambrose wants Rollins in the ring where he cant escape so Dean can truely start his revenge; Paige/AJ is a friends turned enemies deal for the title; Swagger/Rusev is obvious. Heck only match without animosity for fighting and a feeling of slotting two guys for the heck of it is Ziggler/Miz which at least has a little recent history. Factor in alot of ring potential on a big 4 card and I am optimistic for the card itself.


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## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

Exactly. I like how these feuds all have an origin and reason for happening rather than randomly having two guys wrestle weekly and suddenly have "hate" for each other because of that. WWE does that all the time but for this show, they've really put forth some effort even if the builds themselves haven't been the best. (specifically referring to Cena vs Brock having a face to face segment only once for about 30 seconds last night) But it's finally a PPV where we wont have to witness random matches or pointless segments added to kill time. SummerSlam itself has been a victim of this in 2011 when there was a random six man tag opening it because they only had about 4 matches announced beforehand.


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## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*



ATF said:


> New thread already? Unexpected.
> 
> You know what is else was unexpected? Robin Williams' death Ambrose coming out of the box 8*D


I wish they didn't give it away by having Rollins check the box lol. Oh well, it was still fun.

I'm fucking pumped for Lesnar/Cena. :mark: Ambrose/Rollins too, but I wish it wasn't a lumberjack match. Maybe they didn't make it a no holds barred match because they'll add the stipulation to Lesnar/Cena in the pre-show? Don't know.

Heyman's rap was awesome last night.


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*



Choke2Death said:


> Exactly. I like how these feuds all have an origin and reason for happening rather than randomly having two guys wrestle weekly and suddenly have "hate" for each other because of that. WWE does that all the time but for this show, they've really put forth some effort even if the builds themselves haven't been the best. (specifically referring to Cena vs Brock having a face to face segment only once for about 30 seconds last night) But it's finally a PPV where we wont have to witness random matches or pointless segments added to kill time. SummerSlam itself has been a victim of this in 2011 when there was a random six man tag opening it because they only had about 4 matches announced beforehand.


I agree. You could see signs of it at Battleground, where even though the QUALITY wasn't necessarily there in the matches, almost all of the feuds atleast had some back story. Summerslam obviously is on a whole nother level though, I'm as excited for this as I was for WrestleMania. I don't see how the Orton/Reigns, Rollins/Ambrose, Cena/Lesnar triple main event this year can top last years, but if it's at least anywhere near as good, I'll be satisfied. Plus, if Orton gets at least a ***1/2 match out of Reigns, it might actually cause people to stop their bitching about both guys for the time being. I'm all on board for anything that causes Reigns detractors to just STFU for a while, the guy is pure excitement and energy when he's in the ring, something most guys lack these days.

With how loaded this event is, I can't help but think how much greater it would be if Punk and Bryan were still around. Thats 2 more awesome matches we could have. Punk vs HHH, Batista vs Bryan. Or just ditch the bums and have Punk face Bryan for rights to the "Best in the World" monicker or something corny like that. I really wouldn't care.


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## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

All the Cena/Brock stuff on RAW was awesome. Pretty excited for that now. And yeah, I agree pretty much all the matches have reason and a build to them. Seems as though WWE is almost remembering how to do actual feuds for this show.


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## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

Anyone watched the Summerslam Prelude to John Cena/Brock Lesnar? I thought they did a fantastic job of building the match up. Also Heyman made an awesome analogy when it comes to Cena being a 15 time World Champion in comparison to Brock conquering The Streak.


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## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*



StraightEdgeJesus said:


> Anyone watched the Summerslam Prelude to John Cena/Brock Lesnar? I thought they did a fantastic job of building the match up. Also Heyman made an awesome analogy when it comes to Cena being a 15 time World Champion in comparison to Brock conquering The Streak.


Did they beep Brock like in the Raw video package they did?


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## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

Yeah they beeped him, he did curse.


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## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thought they may have let it go on the network.

What am I saying, the network unedited lol.


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## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*



The Fab Four said:


> Did Flair/Hogan have some words backstage or something, as Hogan got a cold reception from Flair in the ring lol.


Something had to have happened backstage, Hogan looked pissed as fuck out there while everyone else looked fine. If you see the video surfacing around its actually HOGAN who snubbed flair, he didnt hold his hand out at all for flair when he came in the ring so hopefully they dont pin it on Naitch

Enough with the gossip,about the wrestling. Actually really really looking forward to Cena/Lesnar, they have done a decent job building this match with all the constraints involved. The Heyman promo + the special on the network helped alot. I know its the IC which is utter crap these day, but hopefully Ziggler gets some sort of brass ring and wins Sunday. I truly cant think of any reason for him not too

Rollins/Ambrose seems like a feud-advancer so we will see


Edit: yea recommend their little special, nicely put together with some great Heyman break-downs


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

The "Prelude" to Cena/Lesnar was fucking AWESOME. Heyman orating the story with the awesome clips over 30 minutes. Loved it, I was pumped before but now I'm downright giddy.

Nice that they put stuff like that on the Network. The ER 2012 clips were amazing.


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## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

Heyman needs to promote every match. Guy is fucking tremendous at it.


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## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I just hope this Brock/Cena feud has the right conclusion, and hope they go balls out in the match.


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## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

I'm praying to God Lesnar/Cena does deliever, as does Rollins/Ambrose and Swagger/Rusev. Those are the only legit excited matches I am for come SS. Brie/Steph and Orton/Reigns are either going to be two massive bombs, two massive sleepers or one of each. I hope they're sleepers, but God why am I so not confident.


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## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

Cena to overcome the odds :cena3


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*



#ROOT said:


> Heyman needs to promote every match. Guy is fucking tremendous at it.


This is from the Prelude video:

Heyman: "John Cena said it best, 40 men have been able to claim they were WWE Champion, only 1 can claim they conquered the Streak"

Heyman: "Let me give you a good analogy for that, imagine you were able to walk up to the podium and say "Ladies and Gentleman, I have been elected President of the United States". That's a phenomenal accomplishment, but about 40 other men have held that same distinction. Now imagine that you could walk up to that same podium and say "Ladies and Gentleman, I have been elected GOD". There is only 1 God, just like there is only 1 Conquerer of the Streak. Brock Lesnar didn't run for President, he ran for GOD, when he took down a GOD at WrestleMania and ascended to his rightful throne"


Fuck, that was one of the best lines I've ever heard, Heyman should always be involved in big matches at the biggest PPV's, he's done the best work of his career promoting Brock post-WM and leading up to SS.


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## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> Cena to overcome the odds :cena3


Please don't even say that in jest. I'm still going to be miffed if and when Brock has to probably drop it back to Cena at NOC.


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## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

Hopefully this match will be as good if not better than their Extreme Rules encounter. I'm definitely loving this big fight feel and other than Ambrose/Rollins, I'm looking forward to this match a lot. I'm preparing for the shitstorm lol.


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## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

First review in the new thread? Anyway I'm sure I'll have a super unpopular opinion in this coming review.



Fully Loaded 2000

*The Hardy Boys and Lita vs. T&A and Trish Stratus 
*
I really really liked this. Albert and Test wrestled at the Hardy’s pace and held their own. It ended up being a great clash of styles. The power moves looked great and Test and Albert sold well for the Hardys. The other thing that was great was how well Lita worked with Test and Albert. They took her offense when she first came in and when they hit power moves on her it looked like she was going to die. Trish wasn’t too far along in her wrestling career but she played a good heel anyway. She picked her spots when she would come in and get some heat by not doing much. She had a few dumb moments where you felt that she should have tagged out and she didn’t but even that fits with her being more of a manager than a wrestling and was certainly that someone with a big ego would do. I don’t know of this is was the first of many Lita/Trish encounters but was a really good encounter between them. You could feel the hatred from Lita and Trish played a total bitch really well. Everything clicked and the crowd loved it. Couldn’t ask for more in an opener. I won’t go crazy because there were some selling issues as guys were taking big moves (as in finishing moves) and were getting up really quickly but even that beats over selling which is what we see in a lot of multi-man matches. 
****1/2 *


*Taz(z?) vs Al Snow*

This was Taz’s first match back from injury and it appears that the entire point of the match was for Snow to beat him up the whole time, have Taz take it all, and choke Al Snow out. Some of the suplexes and stuff looked cool and it had a fight feel to it at times but other than that it wasn’t very impressive. Taz did at least look tough after it and Al Snow actually looked like someone that was serious in the ring, which I’m not used to.
**1/4* 


_European Championship Match_
*Eddie Guerrero(c) w/Chyna vs. Perry Saturn w/Terri Runnels* 

This really wasn’t very good. Eddie at times looked sloppy or lazy. He hit the worst clothesline you can imagine and he had some stumps that were embarrassingly bad. There wasn’t too much of this but there were enough bad moments to take me out of it. They also struggled with any type of story or heel/face dynamic. Eddie seemed to be getting cheered but Chyna acted as a typical heel manager but on the other hand Chyna and Terri’s interactions made Chyna look like a face. I know Eddie at his best played around with the traditional heel/face dynamic a ton but this didn’t feel like that. He didn’t have that mischievous grin when Chyna would cheat but he also didn’t seem like a heel either. You got a few nice encounters but I thought the majority of this match was poorly worked. Eddie is amazing but it’s easy to forget that he wasn’t amazing during this part of his WWE run. It’s almost hard to believe that I’m watching one of the all time greats when I watch this match.
**1/2 *


_WWF Tag Team CHampionship Match_
*Edge and Christian(c) vs. The APA*

Edge and Christian did their cheap hit interview with the Texas crowd which really pissed off Bradshaw who responded with his own promo. The whole exchange worked really well as the crowd was really behind the APA. That match itself was pretty standard with APA kicking ass at first before the Edge and Christian cheated to get some offense that led to the hot tag. Nothing all that great and a DQ ending didn’t help. Solid enough match but I have to say the backstage antics with Mick Foley were much more entertaining than the match itself. 
**3/4*


_Cage Match for the Intercontinental Championship_
*Val Venis(c) w/Trish Stratus vs. Rikishi*

Rikishi did a splash of the top of the cage which is just absurd. Guys his size don’t take bumps like that but he did and it was pretty awesome. That being said there wasn’t much that I loved about the match other than the big bump. It was your standard cage match that WWE has where both guys always seem to forget how easily they can walk out the door whenever they want and stuff like that. But they built some suspense in and both guys did a good enough job. Interference in a cage match is always kind of annoying too, but I feel like the big bump more than cancels out that. 
***½* 


*Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker*

I knew that this wasn’t a great match but I didn’t realize how badly Angle lost. It was a borderline squash match. Angle had been attacking the leg regularly leading up to the match (including backstage earlier in the show) so that was his focus. But Angle didn’t get much offense and the little he did get in wasn’t really sold at all. Undertaker said that he was going to kick Angle’s ass and that’s exactly what he did. I just wish that he could have sold his leg better or let Angle look like he was some type of threat. This was honestly the type of match that a jobber would have with the Undertaker on Smackdown before his PPV match. I think Undertaker deserves a lot of criticism here because while they only had 8 minutes he could have let Angle get more offense in and at least made it look like he was near Angle’s level. At this point I do have to admit that I did enjoy the match. Watching the Undertaker beat the shit out of a super annoying Angle was fun. This match was an ass kicking but it was an ass kicking that was fun to watch. Undertaker picking up Angle’s shoulders, looking at the ref, and saying “Fuck You!” to him when he yelled at Taker for doing that was pretty great. Yeah it’s a squash and it was a borderline squash but it was fun.
***½* 


_Last Man Standing Match:_
*Chris Jericho vs. Triple H w/Stephanie McMahon*

I haven’t seen this match in a long time but I remember liking it and it still holds up really well now. When you see guys come out there and wrestle a gimmick match so intelligently it’s hard not to like the match. Jericho came into the ring with his ribs taped up and Triple H went right for them after he was able to survive Jericho’s initial burst of offense. And from there Triple H kept going after the ribs and Jericho sold them well. Triple H played a smart heel as his offense was focused and doing things like kissing Stephanie when Jericho was down was just fantastic. Jericho gave a great pure babyface performance as his offense came across as downright desperate when he would get in a shot or two during Triple H’s control segment. They didn’t go crazy with spots or weapons early on but they established that Jericho was in a lot of trouble being in the ring with Triple H. 

Now I have to get to the one thing that really bothered me about the match; Triple H and the referee. The ref was too involved in the match and he got involved in a way that cheapened Jericho’s comebacks. Twice the ref stopped Triple from doing things that were legal in the match (because everything is legal) and that gave Jericho an opening. I was left feeling that if it wasn’t for the ref Jericho never would have got in any offense. 

Anyway despite the fact that I didn’t like how Jericho would get offense I really liked what he would do when he would get offense in. He had to go for the big move early on because he was in a lot of trouble. Later on he showed in 10 seconds how blood and chair shots to the head can enhance a match. Jericho blasted Triple H in the head and Triple started bleeding a lot. The visual effect it had was perfect because in just 1 move Jericho was back in the match. And from there it was really anyone’s match as they fought to the bitter end. I’m not a huge fan of the ending because it didn’t really look that impressive but it served its purpose as Jericho looked really tough in a losing effort. This was a great match but had Jericho been made to look a little stronger on his own I think they could have had an even better match. 
*****1/4* 


_WWF Championship Match_
*The Rock(c) vs. Chris Benoit w/Shane McMahon* 

Had I never seen Chris Benoit wrestle before I would be left with the impression that he sucks. Just about any criticism that you could use to describe would be applicable here. If I were to describe Benoit here I would say he was boring. He was booked as this heartless wrestling machine but his offense lacked the aggression that was needed to pull that off and his relationship with Shane was just odd. Benoit was essentially the surrogate of Shane as nobody seemed to care very much about Benoit as they just wanted to see the Rock beat up Shane. Shane was also too involved in the match. There’s cheating to get heat for your guy and there is this where Shane did everything for Benoit. 

The Rock wasn’t much better as he have a rather generic babyface performance. It was fun to see him chase Shane around a little at the start at least. The match had the added stipulation that the Rock would lose the title if he was DQed and the Rock didn’t play that up at all. He didn’t try to show any restrain and Benoit and Shane didn’t egg him on to try to get the cheap win. 

I want to like the match and I want to be able to say something positive about it but I can’t. It lasted about 20 minutes, had a stupid ending, and was generally boring to watch. This might be my least favorite Chris Benoit match that I can ever recall watching. I won’t give it a dud because there was some decent stuff early on but if I had the option I would rather rewatch any other match on this card than this. 
***​
The show was good up until the main event flopped for me. Jericho/Triple H is fantastic, the opener is a hidden gem, and there are enough decent matches on the card to make this an enjoyable watch, at least until the main event starts. Never would I expect that a minimally trained Trish Stratus would be significantly more entertaining than Eddie and Benoit combined...


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

I've always felt Extreme Rules would have been the absolute PERFECT match if, they did everything EXACTLY the same, only right after Cena AA's Brock onto the steps, Brock locks in the Kimura, holds it in with Cena refusing to tap, then at the last minute wrenches back really quickly "breaking" Cena's arm, Cena immediately blacks out and the ref stops the match. If they had done that, perfection.

They have a chance to right that wrong at SS. That's a beautiful finish. I'd love to see them use it. It makes Cena look like a bad ass for not tapping and puts Brock over like a million bucks. They simply can't let Cena win at SS, can they?

Edit- Fitz, I love you're reviews, but man you just gave one of my favorite matches *. I don't know if I can ever forgive you 

Also Fitz-I'm glad you loved Jericho/Trips, far and away my favorite match with the LMS gimmick. Your comment about the finish is valid, but I will point out that wasn't their planned finish. They planned on doing it from table to table, but stupid Chyna broke one of the tables so they had to do it from the time keepers area, and as a result it didn't end up looking so great. I have that match at ****3/4, but you're rating is fair, obviously. Excellent review pardon you hating one of my favorite matches


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## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

Your opinion of the main event sucks .

Wait... I'm defending a Rock match...

uhhhh...

The opener is a really good match . I agree there .


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## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Though it was interesting on Raw too Heyman bringing up Brock's diverculitus issues.


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*



The Fab Four said:


> Though it was interesting on Raw too Heyman bringing up Brock's diverculitus issues.


I don't know if they showed this part on Raw, but in the Prelude video they bring up Brock's divirticulitis issues as a way of explaining how he lost to Cena at ER. Brock says he wasn't at 100% then because he was still recovering, but now he's at 1000% and ready to decimate John boy.


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## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

Yeah, that review of Benoit vs Rock can be summed up with this as far as I'm concerned:

:done

One of my favorite matches for either guy and it never gets old. The two just clicked in the ring together.


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*



Choke2Death said:


> Yeah, that review of Benoit vs Rock can be summed up with this as far as I'm concerned:
> 
> :done
> 
> One of my favorite matches for either guy and it never gets old. The two just clicked in the ring together.



Is there any Benoit PPV match from his debut in WCW in 1995 through his death in 2007 that you would give a rating of * to? The worst major match he had that I can think of is vs Eddie at ONS 2005, and even that I wouldn't go below ** on. Can't believe someone could watch Rocky/Benoit FL and not love it, I think it's pretty incredible. It was the first match I chose to watch when I got my subscription to the Network actually, I just needed to see it in HD for the first time


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Didnt The Rock and Benoit have a Steel Cage match too at some point?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

^ Yep. Have it on my PC in good quality but can't upload to youtube for another month atm.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Is there any Benoit PPV match from his debut in WCW in 1995 through his death in 2007 that you would give a rating of * to? The worst major match he had that I can think of is vs Eddie at ONS 2005, and even that I wouldn't go below ** on. Can't believe someone could watch Rocky/Benoit FL and not love it, I think it's pretty incredible. It was the first match I chose to watch when I got my subscription to the Network actually, I just needed to see it in HD for the first time


I honestly haven't seen a PPV match of his that I would give one star to. Some matches are subpar like the KOTR triple threat, ONS with Eddie and No Way Out with Booker. But nothing I would go below 2 stars as you pointed out. Despite the popular saying that Benoit never had a bad match, I've seen a few that I didn't enjoy but none are on the level of 1 star bad. Okay, there's a match in 1995 in a WCW PPV where he loses to Big Show in about 10 seconds with a dropkick and a chokeslam. That is the biggest DUD of all DUDs but you can't really count a match that is barely a match.

And forgot to respond to this but a couple of pages when responding to my post, you talked about people shutting up about Reigns if Orton has a good match with him. Well, I got some bad news! Until he improves, I have to stay on the hate bandwagon because right now, he's like a way shittier version of Goldberg and that doesn't sit well with me if this guy is to headline the next Wrestlemania. I used to defend him in the Shield days and think he is gonna be a star worth supporting but as he's gone solo, all the bad things said about him seem to be true.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah no probs, thanks.

Speaking about Piper and Flair, I still never seen their match, or Piper/Hennig. Need to watch them soon.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

Biggest DUD of all DUD's is and forever will be Sharmell/Jenna tho. That's gotta be the worst match in pro-wrestling history. That whole PPV (Victory Road '09) was a mess. God bless Mick Foley for getting something average out of Angle at that time. I've seen arguments for Against All Odds '10 being TNA's worst PPV ever, but c'mon now, this one beats them all.

Thank God for shows like the first few Bound For Glory's though.

Anyways, wouldn't expect Rock/Benoit of all matches to be the next one-man-hate victim but thank goodness everybody's defending it. There is one below * match of Benoit's for me - Benoit/Gunn from Armageddon 2000 btw.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What is the date of that Rock/Benoit cage match?


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I've always felt Extreme Rules would have been the absolute PERFECT match if, they did everything EXACTLY the same, only right after Cena AA's Brock onto the steps, Brock locks in the Kimura, holds it in with Cena refusing to tap, then at the last minute wrenches back really quickly "breaking" Cena's arm, Cena immediately blacks out and the ref stops the match. If they had done that, perfection.
> 
> They have a chance to right that wrong at SS. That's a beautiful finish. I'd love to see them use it. It makes Cena look like a bad ass for not tapping and puts Brock over like a million bucks. They simply can't let Cena win at SS, can they?
> 
> ...


I assumed that they were going to do something like that with the tables as the Spanish Announce table appeared to be made of paper when it fell apart. 


I'm standing by hating Rock/Benoit. It was a legit struggle to stay awake. The best comparison I can make is that this was a lot like CM Punk vs. Curtis Axel w/Paul Heyman. Axel and Benoit were just bodies in the ring for their non wrestling managers. 

The "Benoit's Boring" chants were also pretty funny as well.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

"Benoit's boring" chants? Were we watching the same match? I don't recall that chant ever happening.

I just remember "Benoit sucks", "Shane's a pussy" and maybe "Rocky" chants.

Steel cage match date is March 6, 2000 according to profightdb.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*



Choke2Death said:


> "Benoit's boring" chants? Were we watching the same match? I don't recall that chant ever happening.
> 
> I just remember "Benoit sucks", "Shane's a pussy" and maybe "Rocky" chants.
> 
> Steel cage match date is March 6, 2000 according to profightdb.


It was right before the "Benoit sucks" chants. I'm almost positive that's what they were chanting.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*



Choke2Death said:


> ^ Yep. Have it on my PC in good quality but can't upload to youtube for another month atm.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think it's totally unfair to judge Reigns in any capacity when he hasn't even wrestled a singles PPV match yet 

That's been my major defense of all the hate so far, I mean the guy has an incredible presence and energy in his performance, he's excitement personified. But he hasn't had any real experience as a singles guy on the WWE main roster, just a few misses against guys like Henry, a hit against Bryan, a hit against Del Rio, and then some average stuff vs Punk. I just think before you start hating a guy, he should get, oh I dunno, atleast 6 months to a year of PPV singles matches to find his groove. Not everyone can be an Angle/Lesnar/Orton. After all, up to this point all he's done is tear it down for over a year + in some of the greatest tag matches in recent memory. Singles wrestling is an entirely different animal and it takes guys time to develop.

My main point? Watch Shawn Michaels in 1992-1993 as a singles guy. He stunk for over a year+. Then watch him in 1994-1995. He really finds his groove and starts banging out some quality. Then 1996 comes around and he has one of the better years in the history of wrestling from an in ring stand point. Now tons of people tout Michaels as the greatest ever (I certainly don't but W/E). Michaels couldn't even have a good match with Mr. Perfect in 1993, right after Perfect had the best match of his career vs Bret. History says it's extremely foolish to hate on a guy so early in his career for failing to adapt to singles after a classic run as a member of a tag team.

Rollins and Ambrose were ALWAYS going to be ready for singles earlier than Roman, as they wrestled the majority of their careers as singles guys using basically the same character they portray now. Roman had barely started working as Roman Reigns-the badass by the time he was thrown into a tag, he'd been a totally different character before, and only started wrestling in late 2010-early 2011 as Leakee the generic Samoan. Just give Roman a shot before you start hating on him, that way you don't look silly 2 years from now when he's killing it non stop.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I wish the fans now would do a WCW and start throwing trash in the ring lol.

Just watched a Piper/Bischoff promo and Eric got fucking pelted left and right. :lol


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

I don't think anyone expects him to be an Angle/Lesnar/Orton but he has been on the main roster for nearly two years teaming with two of the best around and working with the likes of Bryan, Orton, Cena, HHH, Punk, Henry etc. Is it too much too expect the guy to do more than punch and kick? Other than the spear, that is genuinely all he does when he is on the offence. It worked well in the matches with The Shield when he was getting the hot tag but it doesn't cut it in main event singles matches.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*



TaylorFitz said:


> It was right before the "Benoit sucks" chants. I'm almost positive that's what they were chanting.


Might have to listen again because I never recall this at any point.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Just give Roman a shot before you start hating on him, that way you don't look silly 2 years from now when he's killing it non stop.


That's my point. Once he starts "killing it non stop", I will even jump on the bandwagon. Obviously I'm not expecting him to be Orton/Lesnar after just a few months as a singles guy but he's set to headline Wrestlemania next year and if all he can offer by that point is the same "Reigns exploding out of the corner" clothesline > Samoan drop > apron dropkick (which is a sloppy boot now) > superman punch > spear after selling for the rest of the match, then I have no choice but to keep on hating.

If he was right now in the midcard and working his way up, I wouldn't mind him. But he's set to work around the main event scene for the foreseeable future and completely skip the midcard all because he has "the look". Once his workrate can justify his push, then I will finally accept him. Until then, I can't help but hate because "bringing excitement" does nothing for me when you have his entire moveset memorized before it even happens in a match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*



Choke2Death said:


> Might have to listen again because I never recall this at any point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



First of all, he's skipping the mid card because the WWE is in desperate, DESPERATE need of new top stars. With Punk gone, Bryan injured and won't be back till God knows when, and Randy/Cena having been on top for going in a decade now, they need new faces in the title picture. There simply isn't an alternative. I would MUCH rather Reigns get 2 years minimum working in the mid card so that he can hone his craft and so his rise can be more organic, but that just doesn't appear to be a workable option. Daniel Bryan, the most over baby face the company has had since the Rock/Austin, the guy the show was being built around, is out indefinitely with a serious neck injury. I don't blame them from throwing darts at a board in the mean time and seeing what will stick.

It's a shame, too. Reigns spot right now could EASILY have been Cesaro, who is so much more ready and infinitely more polished in the ring. Cesaro was over like crazy right after WM 30, if they had pulled the switch and made him a baby face on the Raw following Mania, he could easily be the one about to face off with Randy. But no, WWE fucked all that up by keeping him heel, and now Reigns is really the only guy they have to build. Ambrose/Rollins are tied up with each other, and rightly so, but the show needs more than the Rollins/Ambrose feud and whatever Cena is doing. So they went with Roman and I really can't blame them because he is getting fantastic reactions every single night.

I guess it's just a difference in mindset between us. You said if Reigns starts killing it every night you'll jump on the bandwagon, but until then you'll hate on him. I just prefer to reserve judgement until someone has had a fair shot to either succeed or fail. Then if Roman succeeds, I can claim to be one of few who saw it in him all along 

One last thing: I think it's foolish to think it's set in stone that Reigns will win the title and main event WM 31, regardless of whether he's ready or not. WWE didn't even decide on the main event for WM 30 until AFTER Elimination Chamber. Their plan around this time last year was Batista/Randy with Batista winning. Fans changed that. Roman won't be getting the title just handed to him, he's gonna have to earn it in the ensuing months. Bet on that much. WWE won't force him down the fans throats if he is the drizzling shits. They can't risk ruining him before he even gets started like they did with Sheamus and ADR.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

One thing I would say though regarding HBK. In 1993 he put on weight, got lazy and really looked like he couldn't give a shit. It took until the end if the year for him to really start to get 'motivated' again.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I think it's totally unfair to judge Reigns in any capacity when he hasn't even wrestled a singles PPV match yet
> 
> That's been my major defense of all the hate so far, I mean the guy has an incredible presence and energy in his performance, he's excitement personified. But he hasn't had any real experience as a singles guy on the WWE main roster, just a few misses against guys like Henry, a hit against Bryan, a hit against Del Rio, and then some average stuff vs Punk. I just think before you start hating a guy, he should get, oh I dunno, atleast 6 months to a year of PPV singles matches to find his groove. Not everyone can be an Angle/Lesnar/Orton. After all, up to this point all he's done is tear it down for over a year + in some of the greatest tag matches in recent memory. Singles wrestling is an entirely different animal and it takes guys time to develop.
> 
> ...



If I may expand with a baseball analogy I feel appropriate, I would say Reigns chief problems are that now that he isnt a closer, he needs to learn how to throw set up pitches figuratively speaking and pace himself so he doesnt blow up in 5 minutes like we constantly see from him. It's a delicate balance with Reigns because bursts of energy is a big part of his schtick, but I think learning some psychology and mixing in some submissions would help to not oversaturate his highspots as well as pace himself for big matches. Reigns needs to find what he is too. I dont buy him as a pure powerhouse because he doesnt have the build or moveset, yet it seems Reigns right now isnt a brawler. I think Reigns as a brawler could work well with his badass auora and hell his superman punch is over as hell and he can throw a mean uppercut.

A big thing too is reigns didnt have the benefit of being diversified away from WWE like superior workers have which increases his improvement curve greatly and his background is football which isnt as applicable as amateur wrestling or mma etc. It also doesnt help that if you look at the vets to guide Reigns for working proper solo matches, Kane is generally a crap worker, Henry is injury prone, IDK how RVD could help Reigns, Regal is more or less done or relegated to NXT, Finlay is done to my knowledge, Jericho pops in and out, WWE wont give Goldust a solo run, Cena is Cena, no Taker, no more ADR, orton seems to me more of a natural than a teacher. That leaves Show and HHH as vets to progress Reigns through the WWE system. HHH is a rare wrestler so only viable option would be heel Show. so many guys broke out when a superb guy worked them. We shall see with Reigns.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

Well, obviously nothing is set in stone, including my opinion on Reigns. I really wanna like him because if he becomes any good in the ring (and secondly on the mic) he can be a great asset and a guy who I will be invested in because unlike many of the vanilla midcard guys who can go in the ring but are bland as fuck otherwise - he has the look and the "it" facto to go along with it. But until that happens, I can't take too kindly to the idea of him main eventing shows and stinking it up every time.

And you brought up Cesaro, a guy who could've been in the main event scene but was ruined by stupid booking. It only gets more annoying when you hear that they intentionally sabotaged his momentum so he wouldn't get more over than Reigns who is the guy they intend to push atm. Now it's not very fair to direct the hate to Reigns as much as it is the idiots in the back but sometimes, you have to find a target and blame it on. Also quite frankly, if Reigns fails to improve in the upcoming months while working with experienced veterans like Orton, HHH, Cena and whoever else before taking on Lesnar, then I think he deserves to get some of the hate too.

----------------

Now I'm watching this Raw episode 8 days after Badd Blood and DX are just so entertaining. They are at ringside eating bananas and just being themselves while the Hart Foundation and the NOD are going to war. lol @ HHH telling Lawler "she makes more sense than you" after Lawler asks if Chyna can talk. :lmao

Shawn is such a natural douche. :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I don't know if they showed this part on Raw, but in the Prelude video they bring up Brock's divirticulitis issues as a way of explaining how he lost to Cena at ER. Brock says he wasn't at 100% then because he was still recovering, but now he's at 1000% and ready to decimate John boy.


That's interesting to hear Brock say. Heyman said it on Raw, that Brock was only at 50% then and is 100% now.

Before now, I never really thought about that issue when watching the ER match. Even more of an amazing Brock performance.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

Good review TaylorFitz. Although I disagree with your assessment of the main event, I highly respect you for taking a contrary stance here instead of parroting views.

We really do take for granted how the WWE built up not just one or two, but EIGHT different feuds for a PPV. When was the last time this happened for a non-WM show? It's in WWE's culture to always have one or two makeshift matches. I can't watch the show live, but I'm really looking forward specifically to Miz/Ziggler, Jericho/Wyatt, and of course, Ambrose/Rollins. The scary part is that they could have added a Sheamus match or a tag team feud to this card to make it more stacked.

Thank you zep for uploading Regal/Benoit. 2006 is done. Off to ROH 2002!

Roman Reigns is a guy that I know I will dislike eventually, but for now I'm enjoying the ride from the Shield momentum. After hearing his voice crack last night, it's safe to say that his mic work needs as much work as his ring work. And it's frustrating too. Reigns understands the hard stuff and is gifted with one of the best looks, builds, and family pedigrees out there. But the basics just aren't there. Sometimes it really does make someone like The Rock or Randy Orton who had similar backgrounds look that much more impressive. I have faith in Reigns figuring it out, but times have changed. Ring work matters in how over you are nowadays, and he could get exposed. Don't be surprised if Ambrose becomes the biggest star of the collective. He got probably the biggest pop last night when he attacked Rollins.

EDIT: :lmao MVP somehow had a terrible match with FINLAY of all people.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*



Choke2Death said:


> Well, obviously nothing is set in stone, including my opinion on Reigns. I really wanna like him because if he becomes any good in the ring (and secondly on the mic) he can be a great asset and a guy who I will be invested in because unlike many of the vanilla midcard guys who can go in the ring but are bland as fuck otherwise - he has the look and the "it" facto to go along with it. But until that happens, I can't take too kindly to the idea of him main eventing shows and stinking it up every time.
> 
> And you brought up Cesaro, a guy who could've been in the main event scene but was ruined by stupid booking. It only gets more annoying when you hear that they intentionally sabotaged his momentum so he wouldn't get more over than Reigns who is the guy they intend to push atm. Now it's not very fair to direct the hate to Reigns as much as it is the idiots in the back but sometimes, you have to find a target and blame it on. Also quite frankly, if Reigns fails to improve in the upcoming months while working with experienced veterans like Orton, HHH, Cena and whoever else before taking on Lesnar, then I think he deserves to get some of the hate too.
> 
> ...


I don't want to believe WWE actively "sabotaged" Cesaro, as stupid as they are not that dumb. What they did do was take a look at Reigns, take a look at Cesaro, and for whatever reason decided Reigns was the guy getting the Main Event push. Now, the flaw in their thinking and actions are, why not push both? For Christ sakes, we get 3 hours of Raw, 2 hours of Smackdown, and an hour of Main Event. You can't find time to give both guys the big push? Why not make it an active competition back stage, give the guys equal emphasis/TV time and see who comes out on top by the time Royal Rumble season comes around? It just doesn't make sense to me. Let the fans decide who is right for them.





The Fab Four said:


> That's interesting to hear Brock say. Heyman said it on Raw, that Brock was only at 50% then and is 100% now.
> 
> Before now, I never really thought about that issue when watching the ER match. Even more of an amazing Brock performance.


An even scarier notion is, Brock was suffering from divirticulitis for YEARS before it was discovered. The doctor said it could have been sapping his energy/strength for up to a decade before it finally inflamed enough to start causing him problems. In all likely hood, we had never seen Brock at full strength until this past year, and even then he's obviously past his prime athletic years. That's just terrifying. He was wrestling Angle going full bore for an hour in 2003 and he wasn't even tapping into the full potential of his athletic ability. I've always said Brock is the greatest athlete in wrestling history, no disrespect to Angle who is easily #2, and I doubt we ever see anyone come along who can match his gifts.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

Sorry skins but I don't see Ziggler having any chance of winning the belt this weekend, especially when they already gave him the win on RAW. Miz has his character going for him and Ziggler has... nothing unfortunately.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

Based on tonight's Main Event, I'm hoping those three teams plus The Dust Bros have a fatal four way for the tag titles or a tag turmoil on the pre-show. Although I'd gladly accept Sheamus vs. Cesaro for the US title as well (no build, but IDC :side.

Just nothing with Adam Rose. Is that too much to ask for?


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I don't want to believe WWE actively "sabotaged" Cesaro, as stupid as they are not that dumb. What they did do was take a look at Reigns, take a look at Cesaro, and for whatever reason decided Reigns was the guy getting the Main Event push. Now, the flaw in their thinking and actions are, why not push both? For Christ sakes, we get 3 hours of Raw, 2 hours of Smackdown, and an hour of Main Event. You can't find time to give both guys the big push?


Nailed it on the fucking head right here. This has been a source of continual frustration for me, for many years. The WWE have several hours of television a week, yet they can only manage to push one guy at a time? What's to stop them from letting Cesaro rip it up with awesome matches every week, and push him simultaneously with Reigns? Hell, it's only going to make you money in the end. Pushing two guys in parallel will make the audience anticipate their eventual meeting once they diverge from the path you've set them on. Image pushing two guys to the moon alongside each other, and having them meet a year or two down the track. That's a money match.

also roman sux.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*



funnyfaces1 said:


> EDIT: :lmao MVP somehow had a terrible match with FINLAY of all people.


Was it that dreadful Beat the Clock match in the start of 08?

Finally watched RAW. Felt like too much of a waste of time but at least Swagger vs Cesaro was good & some quality promos were cut. Best being w/Bray. Damn he slayed. Did like Brock at the end too. I knew he would target piper first b/c Piper is crazy enough to stare him down. Awesome. But no Sting. God dammit.

Oh, forgot the Dolph vs Slater w/Miz segment was fun. Midcard relevancy among theses three. Who the hell saw that coming?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*



Hayley Seydoux said:


> Was it that dreadful Beat the Clock match in the start of 08?


Oh yes. I don't think MVP knows what a Beat the Clock match means. At least Undertaker/Henry was super fun from that episode. Starting on 2008. Punk/Chavo from New Year's Day was really nice. Punk selling a body part while a heel works on said appendage. Works every time. It's going to be a fun race to see who has the better in-ring year between Punk and Taker.

Anyone else like the Colin Delaney storyline? Simple but fun. And how can you not love fat black men squashing the 120 lb white guy? I heard ECW in 2008 was nearly as good as 2009. I never saw anything from Henry's ECW reign, but it must be good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

Finlay has much better matches vs Khali. And damn Taker vs Henry. That's a goodie. Dead Man was off and running the moment the year began. Only matches where his performance isn't anything good off the top of my head are gosh darn gimmick matches. _(TLC & Casket from ONS & Survivor Series, respectively)_

Just saw someone crap on Rock vs Benoit from Fully Loaded. Ha.

SummerSlam '94 was a success of a show, pardon the main event being...that. Still. Undertaker returned. Jumping tombstones, man. Shut up. I can handle the zombie apocalypse. Bret vs Own is still practically perfect & gets about an hour of the PPV all to itself, so not ending was tolerable in consideration. _(they only did it b/c the post match attack was successful by way of the heels and WWF has to end happy.)_ Tatanka's heel turn is spectacular so it made up for a shitty match vs Luger. Bull Nakano used Paige's submission before she did. Mabel rules. Jarrett had a good match w/him too. Ted Dibiase as a manager also ruled. Who got heat like IRS? Shawn was the biggest version of his coked out male prostitute self & was great in his role during Diesel vs Razor. A match that was great in its own right too.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The sentence "Mabel rules" feels wrong on so many levels  Tbf, I only started to like Nelson Frazier Jr. when he turned into Viscera. Big Daddy V was also fun, but Viscera was pretty damn entertaining. The pre-WM 22 Battle Royal was pretty much made as fun as it was by him almost single-handedly. THE WORLD'S LARGEST LOVE MACHINE~!

And I would've liked the Colin Delaney storyline... had it actually went anywhere. :lmao Henry's ECW reign of doom was fantastic though. Gems against Matt Hardy and Finlay were really good. I'd say however that the best match that ECW 2008 produced was Matt/Bourne from Cyber Sunday. CS 2008 in of itself is a forgotten awesome show, one that I had no idea it was as good as it actually was.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Roddy Piper/Eric Bischoff promo (WCW Monday Nitro 11.18.1996)*



Piper calls Bischoff a "Piece of shit".


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cyber Sunday 08 is an enigma. A convergence of some great matches & some of the, either, most disappointing _(Kane vs Mysterio's follow up to the raucous No Mercy bout)_ or flat out worse of the year _(Santino farce & LOL Jericho vs Batista aka worst match of the year)_ is all on it. And then a solid Cryme Tyme tag is smack dab in the middle. Then stupid divas filler to even that out.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HHH/Kozlov(/Edge) SVS still happened. In no universe would I say Jericho/Batista CS was actually worse than that. I'm probably sure you didn't think much of it because SHENANIGANZ~, but for one I actually enjoyed those shenanigans, if anything because they made sense given the characters they played with. Jericho getting the "you count yourself out you lose the title" thing by Austin, HBK being the most biased ref of all time and JBL murdering him for it, Orton being the typical dick Orton is, Stunners everywhere and Batista winning the title. This last one wasn't so good but the rest of them SHENANIGANZ~ bump it up I guess. Santino stuff was a farce, though. At least one that ends before it starts.

And even if it were the worst for my money, the show would still have the three great matches (Matt/Bourne, Taker/Show and HHH/Jeff) to make up for it, plus Dirt Sheet/Cryme Tyme and the weaponsy/movesy/letdownsy but still alrightsy Kane/Mysterio to boot. And Mickie James in a Tomb Raider outfit - screw everyone else. Kinda like Survivor Series '04 in that department.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ugh no.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Most compelling answer I've ever seen 8*D.

Kinda wanted to share here my personal booked version of Ambrose/Rollins' Lumberjack match. I've PM'ed it to funnyfaces and cjack first for a "test run" of sorts p), and I'm ready to show it to the full audience now I guess. Let me know whatcha think about it if you're assed to read it all:
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/38184026-post265.html


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Man I thought Cody was in the anti-Hart-cage-camp. Come to think of it I'm fairly certain I know a good few people who don't like that match, but I could not name you one specific person. Cody are you going to watch SummerSlam 95 again now? Mabel rules it. Well he has a totally dogshit match with Diesel, but I remember it being pure wrestlecrap of a so-bad-it's-good quality. 

Just watched it again. Honestly thought the match was all right before the ref-down crap. Still got a few funny things happening, but I completely retract the ''dogshit'' in the above paragraph. Mabel yells out "I'm gonna be the first black champion" within 30 seconds of the match starting. The ref takes a bump through the ropes that looks pretty fucking funny if you focus on him. Mo gets on the apron to distract the ref...but Mabel had control of the match anyway. Hell, who knows. Lex Luger also comes in to presumably help Diesel from a Mabel/Mo beatdown, then Diesel punches him in the face as soon as he gets in the ring. :lmao I think it could have been legitimately good had they just slugged each other. I didn't think either guy looked anything worse than passable on the offensive, but they went with a workover/comeback sort of thing that really didn't fit. There were a couple cool things in the match, though, and I truly thought it was a perfectly watchable 6/7 minutes of wrestling. And a holy shit spot where Mabel fucking ass bombed Diesel's lower back while Diesel was laying face-down. I think I actually kind of like (three quarters of) this match. Hopefully these two have a Vader/Bossman-ish fight on TV because it'd likely actually be fun.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> Man I thought Cody was in the anti-Hart-cage-camp. Come to think of it I'm fairly certain I know a good few people who don't like that match, but I could not name you one specific person. Cody are you going to watch SummerSlam 95 again now? Mabel rules it. Well he has a totally dogshit match with Diesel, but I remember it being pure wrestlecrap of a so-bad-it's-good quality.
> 
> Just watched it again. Honestly thought the match was all right before the ref-down crap. Still got a few funny things happening, but I completely retract the ''dogshit'' in the above paragraph. Mabel yells out "I'm gonna be the first black champion" within 30 seconds of the match starting. The ref takes a bump through the ropes that looks pretty fucking funny if you focus on him. Mo gets on the apron to distract the ref...but Mabel had control of the match anyway. Hell, who knows. Lex Luger also comes in to presumably help Diesel from a Mabel/Mo beatdown, then Diesel punches him in the face as soon as he gets in the ring. :lmao I think it could have been legitimately good had they just slugged each other. I didn't think either guy looked anything worse than passable on the offensive, but they went with a workover/comeback sort of thing that really didn't fit. There were a couple cool things in the match, though, and I truly thought it was a perfectly watchable 6/7 minutes of wrestling. And a holy shit spot where Mabel fucking ass bombed Diesel's lower back while Diesel was laying face-down. I think I actually kind of like (three quarters of) this match. Hopefully these two have a Vader/Bossman-ish fight on TV because it'd likely actually be fun.


I'm one of the people who doesn't like the Hart/Hart cage .

Mabel/Diesel :lmao. Mabel almost got fired over that holy shit spot you mentioned . Diesel told him not to do it because it was injuring other guys... and Mabel did it anyway and injured Nash . Vince was ready to fire him over it but apparently THE KLIQ told him not to.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Diesel/Mabel praise? I would say I should rewatch it but, do I really want to lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So... we're in a universe where HBK/Jericho matches get crapped on whereas Diesel/Mabel sort-of gets praised. I rewatched it recently myself, and while it does have it's hilarity, and that legit Holy Shit spot, I would never say that it's really anything of likeable personally. Imho HHH/Steiner I is more entertaining than that is, for Christ's sake (then again, HHH/Steiner I is the most unintentionally hilarious match of all time, so you have that).

Was anything from Main Event worth watching? Heard there was a Triple Threat Tag Title match in it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

#ROOT said:


> I'm one of the people who doesn't like the Hart/Hart cage .
> 
> Mabel/Diesel :lmao. Mabel almost got fired over that holy shit spot you mentioned . Diesel told him not to do it because it was injuring other guys... and Mabel did it anyway and injured Nash . Vince was ready to fire him over it but apparently THE KLIQ told him not to.


I find it really, really bizarre that a member of the Clique told a wrestler to not do something, then the wrestler does that something - TO a member of the Clique - then the Clique stop Vince from firing said wrestler from doing said something to said Clique member.

EDIT - I'm not going to pretend to sing the praises of Mabel/Diesel as an actual good match, but I had a memory of it being dogshit before I watched it again and I definitely don't think it's dogshit any more. IDK if it's better than the worst Michaels/Jericho on PPV but I don't care to take two matches I don't even think are good and compare them. Honestly though, Mabel/Diesel was like 8 minutes and before the ref bump I found it mostly inoffensive. And, well, the Michaels/Jericho matches I don't like are not 8 minutes long and I sure as shit felt offended while watching them. I'm not surprised whatsoever that nobody really cares about Mabel/Diesel but I'm not sure where the huge hate comes from (pre-ref bump). I mean it was, like, all right. Again my ''praise'' for it has more to do with the fact that I had seen it before and hated it and thought for sure I'd still think it sucked, so I was waiting for something terrible to happen and it didn't until the ref bump. IDK if the match would get the hate it does if it wasn't a WWF title SummerSlam main event. I guess it didn't feel like a WWF title match but IDK, sometimes I think a match is a match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Owen/Bret Cage is awesome. Not 5-star awesome like some people say, but definitely 4-star awesome IMO. I imagine it would be 10 times more exciting watching it live without knowing who won, as they had SO many close calls in those escapes that I can see it being edge-of-your-seat riveting live. 

It's also a pretty unique match, as I can't remember or think of a cage match that happened before Bret/Owen that was built like that, entirely around the escape. Also, I think it would have been kind of tasteless for them to do a bloody struggle with two brothers fighting, and it wouldn't have fit either character. Owen never was a tough guy heel, he was sneaky. And Bret beating Owen bloody might have made Bret look bad as the face. Either way, I think it's damn good match.

Cool information Bret gave in the timeline: originally he wanted to do a Ladder match with Owen at SS, but once Shawn and Razor stole Bret's idea and used it at WM 10, Vince thought having another ladder match so soon would make Shawn and Razors seem less important. I think a Bret/Owen ladder match would have been a classic, even better than a cage match for sure.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, Bret wasn't best pleased (when is he lol) by the whole ladder deal, with Bret 'coming up with idea and Vince/Shawn stealing it later on'.

I can see why he was upset though, as he had obviously been planning and pitching it for years.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

I don't think anybody bought whiny Owen as a main eventer much less a champion. Never a doubt who was going to win going into the match when watching live.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Question: now that Steen has officially signed w/WWE, is it anything short of inevitable that we will get Zayn/Steen anytime soon?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Psicosis/Regal on a PPV would have been great. Watched the '96 Nitro episode with that as the opener, super little match.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Mabel/Diesel is far from the level it's painted as. No means bad, with its fault only laying toward being uninspired/boring. That may be a slight, considering this is the main event of Summerslam 1995, but that shouldn't warrant the title people give this. Wouldn't even be a bottom 5 of 2014, let alone "second worst match in history".


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah there's no way that Mabel/Diesel is in that "second worst match in history" territory. Not when DX vs. McMahon Show exists. Or a 12 minute match between Triple H and Snitsky.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Lawler vs Hassan at NYR 2005 is a strong contender for worst match of the past 10 years. Well, worst match where two actual wrestlers were involved, because Bret/Vince and Cole/Lawler are surely two of the dirt worst matches ever.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

So I just rewatched Hart/Hart Cage, really weird match. I dont know how I view it in a postive/negative way because there are things I like and things I dont. The story and the actual wrestling/brawling portions are really good but the excessive trying to get out/pulling back in is ok at some points but really annoying in others

Since its summerslam time, see if a certain main event of the 1992 ppv is any good this time


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just watched the 12/16/96 episode which ended with a mass NWO vs WCW brawl at the end.....then Sting came out and started to clear house.

But still keeping that mystique of 'Which side is he on'. Classic stuff.

Edit: Crap, wrong thread lol.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

NAITCH said:


> So I just rewatched Hart/Hart Cage, really weird match. I dont know how I view it in a postive/negative way because there are things I like and things I dont. The story and the actual wrestling/brawling portions are really good but the excessive trying to get out/pulling back in is ok at some points but really annoying in others
> 
> Since its summerslam time, see if a certain main event of the 1992 ppv is any good this time



Count me in the camp that thinks SS 1992 Bret/Smith is still a great, great match. I do prefer their IYH match to it, but SS is more memorable for sure and also more impressive when you realize Bret is literally holding Daveys hand and carrying him step by step through the match. Probably one of the best quote un quote carry jobs ever.

Bret/Owen SS 1994: ****
Bret/Smith SS 1992: ****1/4
Bret/Smith IYH: Seasons Beatings: ****1/2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Downloaded and watched that Cena/Lesnar SS thingy that was on the Network. I missed most of the sit down interview bits that were shown on Raw because I can't be fucked watching much of Raw these days so it was all new to me. Great, great stuff and the sort of thing WWE should do more often to make matches feel even bigger.

EDIT: Huh, my sig seems to have gone back in time a few days lol .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Is that special still on YT anyone know. Sure I saw a link here yesterday.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

The special was decent and much like ROOT, I don't watch RAW, so this was all new to me. Pretty much showed why I hate Cena and Lesnar is my hero. Heyman was good to. Loved how Brock shot down every single IWC member who bitched about him leaving, "I had the balls to leave and make a name for myself".


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Superbrawl I

_United States Tag Team Championship Match_
*The Fabulous Freebirds vs. The Young Pistols(c)* 

A solid enough match. Hayes and Garvin understand how to play a heel tag team and the Pistols were good enough as faces here. You get tried and true heel tactics from the Freebirds that showed them working intelligently and building up to a hot tag. The tag might not have been all that hot but after it was made the shift in pacing was good until the match ended. I don’t know if the Freebirds have won more than 5 matches clean as heels and this wasn’t one of them. The ending was a little silly but if you don’t expect it to happen with the Freebirds you deserve to be pissed about the ending. A solid opener but they really didn’t do anything too amazing or really anything that makes it stand out but it was still a solid match.
***1/2* 


*Ricky Morton vs. Dan Spivey* 

I wasn’t expecting Morton to get squashed but that’s exactly what happened. There was some fun cat and mouse stuff early on and Spivey’s offense looked great while Morton’s offense seemed to have almost no effect on Spivey. Spivey eventually caught Morton and hit him with some power moves before easily putting Morton away with a powerbomb. Decent enough for such a short, and not very competitive match.
***


*Tommy Rich vs. Nikita Koloff*

Another match that wasn’t very competitive. Rich showed early on that he was a loft veteran of sorts where he would catch Koloff off guard for a roll up something. However Koloff soon took control of the match and never lost it. Pretty boring stuff in all honesty. 
*½** 


*Dustin Rhodes vs. Terrance Taylor w/Alexandra York and Mr. Hughes* 

I remember hearing about the computer gimmick that Taylor had at this time and it was funny to see it in action. It was amusing to see Taylor go out of the ring and get advice from York the computer. The match was solid enough and Dusty Rhodes on commentary was a nice touch as well. I was happy that Taylor played up to his gimmick and that when he would go outside the ring and get information he would come back in and take control of the match. Rhodes was a solid babyface as always and the place exploded when he won. Nothing too spectacular but a very solid match.
***1/2* 


*Black Bart vs. Big Josh w/FUCKING BEARS*

They punched each other a punch and then Big Josh say on Bart and won the match. I guess some of the strikes looked good and Big Josh brought bears to the ring so that was kind of cool I guess? What do want from me when I have to review matches like this?
*¼* *


*Oz w/Wizard and a FUCKING MONKEY vs. Tim Parker
*
Kevin Nash may have the worst gimmick that anyone has ever had. I’m serious it was one of the dumbest things I’ve ever seen and I saw the Machine wrestle DDP on Thunder. His character is that he’s The Wizard of Oz but he has a Wizard as a manager… Nash squashes the jobber in 30 seconds and does a couple of power moves, they did look cool at least.
*¼* *


_Taped Fist Match:_
*Brian Pillman vs. Barry Windham*

This could have been amazing but it wasn’t at all. The opening was fun as Pillman plays a fantastic underdog and you can see how he’s fighting above his weight class in this one. The problems is that Windham took control of the match and never lost it. He won pretty easily in only a few minutes. Pillman gave a great performance with limited offense and sold well but there is just only so much that they could have done with such limited time and limited offense from Pillman.
**** 


_Stretcher Match?:_
*El Gigante vs. Sid Vicious *

Sid was pinned in like 2 minutes after a pretty terrible match. I don’t know why he was pinned and not put on a stretcher. Then the One Man Gang and Kevin Sullivan ran in and beat up El Gigante. One of the dumbest gimmick matches ever, if it was even a gimmick match. 
*DUD*


_Cage Match:_
*Butch Reed w/Teddy Long vs. Ron Simmons*

Butch Reed continues to strengthen his case for being my least favorite wrestler ever. I’ve yet to see a singles match of his that I didn’t dislike. Reed dominates the match for a good chunk but his offense just doesn’t look good and he wrestles like he’s a chicken shit heel and not a big basass heel. I’ll be honest I was pretty zoned out for the most of this but at some point Simmons hit a suplex out of nowhere and won. No comeback or anything, just a slow and boring Reed control segment followed up with an out of nowhere win for Simmons. I guess it wasn’t the worst thing ever. 
**1/2* 


_WCW Tag Team Championship Match:_
*Sting and Lex Luger vs. The Steiner Brothers(c)
*
Well this was a blast to watch and was so refreshing after seeing so many slow and uneventful matches. The pacing was insane and I loved how neither team took on the more traditional heel role. Both teams were face and they just threw bombs at each other. It’s like when you watch tag matches from this time you always hear how one team wants to keep the pace up while the other wants to slow it down but in this case both teams wanted to keep the pace up. They threw bombs at each other and went for the win and move early and often. The match was just fun to watch and that’s something that has really been lacking on this show so far.
****1/2* 


_Television Championship Match:_
*Arn Anderson(c) vs. Bobby Eaton*

I got what I was expecting here, a smartly worked match with great selling. Eaton would go for some good looking right hands as his main source of offense while Anderson worked the leg. Eaton sold it like a pro (including limping around post match) and gave a good face performance as he was always showing signs of life when Anderson controlling the match. They didn’t quite take this to the next level as the intensity never picked up and they only wrestled for about 12 minutes but the match was still good and I always enjoy a match when the guys are smart. 
*****


_WCW and NWA Championship Match_
*Ric Flair(c) vs. Tatsumi Fujinami*

Very Japanese and the crowd was Japanese like but for the wrong reasons. I think Flair was still a heel and they had no real connection with Fujinami. The match as solid enough as they kept things mat based for the most part and there was some nice chain wrestling. Nothing really to write home about but I think that’s because these guys were in a tough position as there wasn’t much of a storyline or anything. I would expect them to have a match like this in Japan and not in WCW. It was a good technical exchange but that’s really all I can say about the match.
***3/4*​

The tag title match was really good and Eaton/Anderson was also good but other than that nothing really stood out and I wouldn’t call either of those great matches either.

Also there shouldn't 12 matches on 1 show that's under 3 hours.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Butch Reed had some great stuff with Flair in the mid-80s and with JYD. Solid on the mic and great athlete. I liked Doom too. But he did have a lot of terrible matches. Not a bad worker, but I would put someone like Ryback above him.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Yeah, that was a stretcher match. Gigante forgot the rules and went for the pin. It's endings like that which become the proverbial cherry upon the shitcake of these matches I enjoy.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> Downloaded and watched that Cena/Lesnar SS thingy that was on the Network. I missed most of the sit down interview bits that were shown on Raw because I can't be fucked watching much of Raw these days so it was all new to me. Great, great stuff and the sort of thing WWE should do more often to make matches feel even bigger.
> 
> EDIT: Huh, my sig seems to have gone back in time a few days lol .


Just caught it on YT. :mark: Loved listening to Brock, he really doesn't give a fuck and imo, he is fearless.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, they officially signed Willie Mack. Which means Big E will be replaced in his role it seems by someone quite more talented, at least in the ring. Is it just me or the WWE's roster is pretty much PWG's roster now - they have El Generico, Sami Callihan, Samuray Del Sol, Kevin Steen, PAC, Prince Devitt, Drake Younger (as a ref) and now they have Willie Mack. Still not enough unless they don't start thinking about getting their hands on Adam Cole, the Young Bucks and/or Chuck Taylor. Or Kyle O'Reilly even 8*D.

Btw, they're apparently hosting tryouts in Australia soon. Anyone good out there - besides Jessie McKay which is one of my favorite women's wrestlers in the indies out there atm?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Well, they officially signed Willie Mack. Which means Big E will be replaced in his role it seems by someone quite more talented, at least in the ring. Is it just me or the WWE's roster is pretty much PWG's roster now - they have El Generico, Sami Callihan, Samuray Del Sol, Kevin Steen, PAC, Prince Devitt, Drake Younger (as a ref) and now they have Willie Mack. Still not enough unless they don't start thinking about getting their hands on Adam Cole, the Young Bucks and/or Chuck Taylor. Or Kyle O'Reilly even 8*D.
> 
> Btw, they're apparently hosting tryouts in Australia soon. Anyone good out there - besides Jessie McKay which is one of my favorite women's wrestlers in the indies out there atm?



They would be fools not to get their hands on Cole in the next year or two, and apparently Trips is high on the Young Bucks and there are rumors they too could be signing with WWE soon.

WWE is set up well FOR THE FUTURE, it's the right now that's the problem.

They have Danielson, Cesaro, Cena, Orton, Rollins, Ambrose, Reigns, Callihan, Generico, Rhodes Bros, Bray Wyatt, Luke Harper, Erick Rowan, Mark Henry, Sheamus, Steen, Kalisto

Add in Cole and the Young Bucks in a few years, and if Punk comes back, that's 20+ top flight in ring workers capable of having outstanding matches and connecting with an audience. The problem is WWE waited so long to start really getting behind these guys that there are very few vets with established credibility to help "make" them. They are essentially in the situation where they need to "make" themselves, which is a far longer process.

What WWE needs is Mick Foley circa 1996-2000, 2004, and 2006, aka The Maker of Stars. Put an in his prime Mick in a program with Rollins, Ambrose, Reigns, Bray, Cesaro etc and BOOM instant main eventer. I don't think you can honestly say anyone who feuded with Mick from 1996-2000 or Edge/Orton in 2004/2006 wasn't better off, and demonstrably so, after going 1 on 1 with the Micker.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Don't forget some other good talents like Neville, Christian, Ziggler, Devitt, Rusev and Barrett (although I'll be the only one who'll mention Wade but fuck haters he's a world-class talent :side, and some other potential hit or miss guys like Orton, Breeze and KENTA that when they're on they're quite good. The WWE has a monumental roster atm, they don't have as much good stuff in-ring as they wish because they don't want to. If NXT really is HHH's baby, then I don't see the time passing quick enough for the day that Vince and the buck-teeth asshole known as Kevin Dunn get kicked off directing the talent.

Now, any answers from my question regarding the Australian tryouts?


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> They would be fools not to get their hands on Cole in the next year or two, and apparently Trips is high on the Young Bucks and there are rumors they too could be signing with WWE soon.
> 
> WWE is set up well FOR THE FUTURE, it's the right now that's the problem.
> 
> ...


This reflects how vital a proper rise Roman reigns will be. You see, with that face and an easy to watxh moveset, the Reigns train will continue to grow so long as Reigns learns to pace himself and improve on the stick and WWE keeps consistently throwing reigns to big venues like ESPN to gain enough visibility so in a little bit he can be a recognizable face to multiple sectors of tv viewers.

once Reigns has enoough skill and especially visibility to take over Cena without business dropping, WWE can have a sitdown with Cena and put him in taker's role of giving back from 02 until post wm26. Cena's feuds right now kill guys because cena always gets his at others expense due to being the franchise player. if reigns gets that improvement/visibility, Johnboy doesnt need to get his anymore. I firmly believe that Cena after an incredible kayfabe run for 10 years, the guy is forever christened and wont end up like Y2J is now. Is Cena willing? I bet hed see it as a blessing not having to shoulder as much of a load. if WWE could somehow someway get Angle for a few years, that would help the near future in credability as well. Besides, I have no doubt some of these guys namely Zayn will set the wrestling world on fire by just being themselves ala if steen gets a fair shake (doubtful). 

I would also like to bring up that WWE has two aces up their sleeves to help accelerate the credability process of this new breed. I assume in his great shape Trips can go in spurts for the next five years or so considering his awesome shape. If trips worked 4 ppvs the next five years doing two a piece with differing new talent, that's already Ten new talent greatly augmented. Another ace they always have in their arsenal the master of promotion and selling an entityin Heyman for as long as heyman wants to perform. I heard an interview saying Heyman would love to keep doing his job for several more decades.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Speaking of Mick Foley (even though I'm the only one speaking of him :lol) guess who will be a guest on Steve Austin's Podcast tomorrow? Why, none other than the Hardcore Legend himself! Can't wait, should be CLASSIC.


----------



## Emotion Blur (May 7, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Yeah there's no way that Mabel/Diesel is in that "second worst match in history" territory. Not when DX vs. McMahon Show exists. *Or a 12 minute match between Triple H and Snitsky.*


I never knew that match existed and it sounds f***ing awesome. Going to track that down now.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just watched this segment where the Nation of Domination locker-room is vandalized with all kinds of racist shit written on the wall and it's done so it looks like the Hart Foundation did it ('twas obviously DX). Combined with the promo Farooq cut afterwards, I was in TEARS watching this. :lmao

This triple heel stable war is fucking awesome. You just don't know who to root for. I wish WWE would do something like this again where there is no clear face or heel in an angle.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

They just did that this year. :wyatt :harper :ambrose :reigns :rollins

But that segment ruled. Man, while 1997 had a really boring midcard, SO many wrestlers had special years. I loved the intricacy in the main event scene too. Everyone feuded with everyone and everything was linked together in some way. But look at the list of wrestlers with notable years:

Austin
Bret
Owen
Bulldog
Pillman
Goldust
Undertaker
Foley
Shamrock
Vader
Michaels
Triple H
Rock
Faarooq

How much more stacked can a main event scene get?


More importantly, how does this website not have a Bray Wyatt smiley?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Man I thought Cody was in the anti-Hart-cage-camp. Come to think of it I'm fairly certain I know a good few people who don't like that match, but I could not name you one specific person. Cody are you going to watch SummerSlam 95 again now? Mabel rules it. Well he has a totally dogshit match with Diesel, but I remember it being pure wrestlecrap of a so-bad-it's-good quality.
> 
> Just watched it again. Honestly thought the match was all right before the ref-down crap. Still got a few funny things happening, but I completely retract the ''dogshit'' in the above paragraph. Mabel yells out "I'm gonna be the first black champion" within 30 seconds of the match starting. The ref takes a bump through the ropes that looks pretty fucking funny if you focus on him. Mo gets on the apron to distract the ref...but Mabel had control of the match anyway. Hell, who knows. Lex Luger also comes in to presumably help Diesel from a Mabel/Mo beatdown, then Diesel punches him in the face as soon as he gets in the ring. :lmao I think it could have been legitimately good had they just slugged each other. I didn't think either guy looked anything worse than passable on the offensive, but they went with a workover/comeback sort of thing that really didn't fit. There were a couple cool things in the match, though, and I truly thought it was a perfectly watchable 6/7 minutes of wrestling. And a holy shit spot where Mabel fucking ass bombed Diesel's lower back while Diesel was laying face-down. I think I actually kind of like (three quarters of) this match. Hopefully these two have a Vader/Bossman-ish fight on TV because it'd likely actually be fun.


I was going to watch a movie but now I HAVE to finish the show just to see this.

And yeah, Bret vs Owen still works for me. I could have potentially shaved off a few minutes in the end, b/c the dudes were drained & the high pace it held fell, but everything about it was exciting. Holds up very well. My favorite Bret vs Owen match will always be the White Plains match on the debut Action Zone.

And please, can people stop making comments about _"you mean this match (w/POPULAR PEOPLE) gets crapped on & this one doesn't?"_ There is no conspiracy or shocker contrarian mindset involved. Workers wrestling companies coin as the best holds no merit on how their actual work is. Why do I even have to explain this? Watch as some moron tries to make a Cena jab out of this. Geek.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Austin
> Bret
> Owen
> Bulldog
> ...


I find this really interesting. Thanks for posting. It reminds me of the opposite happening in AJPW in the 90's. In the entire 90's something like 8 people got title shots which says a lot.

Who did we get in Main events last year, not counting part timers?

Cena
Punk
Orton
Bryan
ummmm....i struggle after this. Del Rio maybe? Kane, probably, not sure though.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

StuckInHell4-Life said:


> I find this really interesting. Thanks for posting. It reminds me of the opposite happening in AJPW in the 90's. In the entire 90's something like 8 people got title shots which says a lot.
> 
> Who did we get in Main events last year, not counting part timers?
> 
> ...


Well last year was kinda weird. The reason why I look at 2013 so highly was not because so many wrestlers were in the main event, but so many wrestlers had great years (or in many cases, career years). I mean the list for 2013 is enormous:

Bryan
The Shield
Orton
Wyatt Family
CM Punk
Cena
Ziggler
Del Rio
Goldust
Cody
Usos
Prime Time Players
Kane
Cesaro
Swagger
Sheamus

And then you had some solid work from veterans such as Henry, Lesnar, Jericho, RVD, Big Show, and Christian. I'm sure I'm forgetting more people, but that's an impressive cast. And then you get into NXT :zayn2



Summerslam 95 had some decent stuff. Bret/Kane, X-Pac/Hakushi, Michaels/Razor, and BARRY HOROWITZ. It also has a casket match that nobody talks about.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I thought he was implying main event as only WWE Championship matches.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

I was implying just main events of ppvs.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Last year we had Rock, Punk, Cena, Ryback, Henry, Orton, Bryan and Big Show all involved in the WWE Championship scene at some point. Del Rio, RVD, Ziggler, Swagger and Sandow had title shots/runs for the gold belt.

Surprisingly, I don't remember Sheamus ever having a title match last year, but then again he was only around for the first half.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I know. I acknowledged that. But my list for 1997 wasn't just PPV main events or championship matches. Just the featured guys that made 1997 what it was.

Anywho, Owen and Bret also had a nifty match in 1996. Everything they did except for the ironman match rules. Even love the lumberjack match. Owen with the greatest short title reign ever.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Loved their raw NHB match as well as the AZ match :krillin :krillin


Is Brock/Cena I worth a watch ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That crap Backlash match is not.

Found this:






So cool. Already saw the KENTA one. Can't wait for Steen's. :krillin (<--- omg)


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

NAITCH said:


> Is Brock/Cena I worth a watch ?


Yes. Solid Title match with a good performance from Cena in one of his first big matches. Brock's of course a beast too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I remember all of Cena's tournament matches leading up to the match w/Brock being infinitely stronger than the PPV match itself. Cena himself was pretty much the reason why it failed. That awful body scissors spot that completely debunnked the match. Frustrating. Largely b/c the hype video did such a good job _(although the running gag it holds in the chatbox entertains me)_ & giving someone fresh a shot at the championship was rad.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The body-scissor spot lasted far too long (counted two minutes) but I wouldn't call the match crap just because of that one spot. Last time I watched it (two years ago) I skipped through that part and match was more enjoyable that way. You can call it cheating but what the hell, if it makes something enjoyable, then why not?

I also rewatched the tournament final from that month between Cena and Benoit a while ago. Definitely not their best together and it's brought down for the same reason. Only this time Cena resorts to restholds on more than just one occasions.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I love that tournament after Mania XIX. I remember my friends and I watching every match together on Thursday nights. Shockingly enough, I wanted Cena to win the thing, even though he faced three guys that are in my top ten favorites. Loved every single match in that tournament. Even that Cena/Taker match with FBI interference. And Benoit/Rhyno is a hidden gem. Man, I can't believe that John Cena was one of two wrestlers to make me not cheer for Undertaker. But 2003 Cena :lenny Didn't like Cena/Lesnar from Backlash too much though. Cena's offense wasn't there yet. But I recall Cena having a couple other matches with Benoit in 2003. Not the #1 contender match.

Nobody should ever use Chavo Guerrero's ineptitude as an excuse for not having a good match with him. I just witnessed a man have seven good matches with Chavo based entirely around his selling.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I remember all of Cena's tournament matches leading up to the match w/Brock being infinitely stronger than the PPV match itself. Cena himself was pretty much the reason why it failed. That awful body scissors spot that completely debunnked the match. Frustrating. Largely b/c the hype video did such a good job *(although the running gag it holds in the chatbox entertains me)* & giving someone fresh a shot at the championship was rad.


IT'S THOSE DAMN FULL BLOODED ITALIANS :cole


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Nobody should ever use Chavo Guerrero's ineptitude as an excuse for not having a good match with him. I just witnessed a man have seven good matches with Chavo based entirely around his selling.


Punk series, eh? Their PPV match is way too neutered for me to care. Don't remember their TV series too well. Think their match leading up towards WM may have been my favorite. _(was suckered into thinking Punk could recapture the gold & it got some pretty solid emphasis that night)_ Who knows all these years later.

May be something if this isn't even the series you were speaking of.



NAITCH said:


> IT'S THOSE DAMN FULL BLOODED ITALIANS :cole


:mark:


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Skipping parts of matches to make them flow better eh? Maybe I should just skip the seven minute headlock to begin Angle/Michaels :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Skipping parts is a thing? :booka


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You mean you actually sit through MVP matches?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Of course. Or who else could have warned people he's awful?

Public service.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

MVP had a great theme though. I'M COMING!!!!

Speaking of that, I'm watching SSlam 08 and I forgot that the opener was MVP vs. Jeff :lel


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kane busting out a top rope leg drop while Bret Hart was draped over the ropes, while under an evil Dentist gimmick, totally blew my mind. Survived a clean loss too by having it end in DQ. Makes you wonder why there wasn't a rematch & Bret got put in to work vs Pirate PCO on the next PPV.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Only two more days before I make the trek to LA for THE BIGGEST PARTY OF THE SUMMER :mark:

Now watching last year's event because it's awesome obviously


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

In prep for Sunday, even though I'm on a WCW project lol, I think I'll watch Brock/Cena and Brock/Punk later.

I just reaaaallllyyyyy hope this Sundays match delivers and the right fucking bloke wins.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm not as hyped as I was for last year's event, but that'd be hard considering the circumstances. Although it'd be close if Bryan vs. Bork were on the card :vince7

Finished SSlam13 a few hours ago and I still love that triple main event with all my heart


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I was gonna re-watch some of last year's SS again too, but then I remembered I don't own it and haven't even attempted to download it yet . Might get on that today, I'm interested to see what I make of Bryan/Cena, because I was always on the lower end of the love for it around here. Like, ***3/4 at absolute max kinda of love, when I was seeing plenty of ****+ love for it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

PGSucks said:


> I'm not as hyped as I was for last year's event, but that'd be hard considering the circumstances. Although it'd be close if Bryan vs. Bork were on the card :vince7
> 
> Finished SSlam13 a few hours ago and I still love that triple main event with all my heart


Yeah, I wish we could have gotten Bryan/Brock as planned. 

But hey, any Brock is good.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

The Fab Four said:


> Yeah, I wish we could have gotten Bryan/Brock as planned.
> 
> But hey, any Brock is good.


Agreed. Hope Bryan/Brock still happens. Seems unlikely at this point but it's about the only dream match I have now that Okada/Nakamura happened.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Don't look now, Bray Wyatt will be on Talk is Jericho Friday. That should be quite an interesting interview.

Bryan/Cena from SS 2013 was really really great, watching it live I loved it, then on rewatches it consistently has held up. It has one of my favorite Bryan moments from his WWE run, when he super plexed John but had his legs hooked on the ropes so he didn't fall, and then he starts shaking his arms while hanging upside and down and gets all fired up. That was a MOMENT, I don't care what you say.

I rated the SS 2013 triple main event:

Bryan/Cena ****1/2
Punk/Lesnar: *****
ADR/Christian: ****1/4 (I'm sure I'm higher on this than anyone but fuck it I love it so much)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

ADR/Christian: ****
Punk/Lesnar: ****3/4
Cena/Bryan: ****1/2

The REAL SS 2013 ME ratings right there :side:

If this year's show comes a margin portion close to last year's, I'll flip. Then again, WM 30 kinda surpassed it in quality when you think about it, so not all's bad.


----------



## RATED R RULES (May 27, 2007)

Anyone got some STARZZ for all the Brock matches since he returned? Fancy seeing all his newer stuff but have Only been watching sporadically recently so want to know if there's anything not worth watching? 

Also have last years at:
Punk Lesnar ****1/2 (very top end)
Cena Bryan ****
ADR Christian ****


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

vs Cena: ****3/4
vs HHH I: ***3/4
vs HHH II: ***
vs HHH III: ***1/2
vs Punk: ****3/4
vs Show: *
vs Taker: **

That's what I got :shrug


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Watch it. Now.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> vs Cena: ****3/4
> vs HHH I: ***3/4
> vs HHH II: ***
> vs HHH III: ***1/2
> ...


vs Cena ****3/4
vs HHH I **** Need to watch thus again to see i still enjoy as i did
vs HHH II **3/4
vs HHH III ** Both stars for Brock's performance. 
vs Punk ****3/4
vs Show N/A
vs Taker **


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

What would you give the Cena match? Does anyone have the Cena match under ****1/2?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I did give it ****3/4 but the finish does bother me and I do sometimes put it at ****1/2. I'll keep my original rating for now, just for Brock's performance alone. Considering he wasn't even at 100%.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

RATED R RULES said:


> Anyone got some STARZZ for all the Brock matches since he returned? Fancy seeing all his newer stuff but have Only been watching sporadically recently so want to know if there's anything not worth watching?
> 
> Also have last years at:
> Punk Lesnar ****1/2 (very top end)
> ...


vs. Cena - **** 1/4-**** 1/2 (can't decide)
vs. HHH Summerslam - ** 1/2 (bores me)
vs. HHH Mania - **** (love it)
vs. HHH Cage match - ***
vs. Punk - *****
vs. Big Show - ** (I enjoyed the whole thing as a segment though)
vs. Taker - **


----------



## Emotion Blur (May 7, 2012)

vs Cena: ****1/2
vs HHH I: ***1/4
vs HHH II: ***
vs HHH III: ***1/2
vs Punk: *****
vs Show: 1/2*
vs Taker: ***


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

vs Cena (****3/4)
vs HHH I (**1/2)
vs HHH II: (***1/2)
vs HHH III: (***)
vs Punk (*****)
vs Show: (**) (What Jack said, enjoyable stuff)
vs Taker: (**1/2)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cena/Lesnar 
Punk/Lesnar 
HHH/Lesnar Cage 

















show/Lesnar
taker/lesnar

DUD

hhh/lesnar I
hhh/lesnar II



The Cena and Punk match are neck and neck for me, both perfection


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

vs. Cena ER ****3/4 (finish is what keeps it from getting the full 5)
vs. HHH Summerslam - ***
vs. HHH Mania - ***
vs. HHH Cage match - ***
vs. Punk - *****
vs. Big Show - **
vs. Taker - ***

Two all time classics, the rest are in the "good" range.

Before I die, I NEED to see Brock vs Bryan and Brock vs Zayn. Please god, make it happen. The best heel in the business vs the 2 of the most natural baby faces I've ever witnessed. Sure fire classics.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

What's the general consensus on the Rock/Hunter Ladder match?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

ATF said:


> What's the general consensus on the Rock/Hunter Ladder match?


Well I always loved that particular match. Not as good as their Iron man Match, but better than their Backlash match, IMO. I offered it ****1/4 on my last rewatch


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It's a pretty good ladder match, but it's cliched to a fault. The Mark Henry/Chyna stuff was terrible and not much happened in the first half. Better than their two terrible Fully Loaded matches.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Before I die, I NEED to see Brock vs Bryan and Brock vs Zayn. Please god, make it happen. The best heel in the business vs the 2 of the most natural baby faces I've ever witnessed. Sure fire classics.


Throw Cesaro and Rollins in there too. Lost hope in any of those happening though if Brock doesn't sign another contract after WM31.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> What's the general consensus on the Rock/Hunter Ladder match?


I've always liked it personally but haven't seen it in years. I can pretty much see all the bumps and spots in my head though because I watched it so many times when I was a kid.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I liked the Rock/HHH ladder match. I thought Rock did a good job working on Hunter's leg and Hunter did a good job selling it.

In terms of ranking Brock's matches since he came back:

1. Punk - Summerslam 2013
2. Cena - Extreme Rules 2012
3. HHH - Summerslam 2012
4. HHH - Wrestlemania 29
5. HHH - Extreme Rules 2013
6. The Undertaker - Wrestlemania XXX
7. Big Show - Royal Rumble 2014


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SonoShion said:


> Throw Cesaro and Rollins in there too. Lost hope in any of those happening though if Brock doesn't sign another contract after WM31.


I'm really hope he signs an extension.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

The Fab Four said:


> I'm really hope he signs an extension.


Aren't there rumors that he wants to go back to UFC?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> Aren't there rumors that he wants to go back to UFC?


Yeah, and I know Brock says he's now at 100% but I can't see it happening myself. Far too risky at this point imo.

I'm not that confident he'll re-sign with WWE, but there is more chance of that I think.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I hope Brock resigns. I really want Brock/Bryan to happen. That match is going to be sick.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I've seen plenty of hype for that Ladder match. I haven't seen it in YEARS, though I recall having it at around ***1/2-***3/4 on last watch.

Oh and for all our wishes of seeing Lesnar/Zayn, we'll have to wait until around 2016. Zayn and Neville are being kept on NXT until Steen, KENTA and Devitt are all brought up to TV due to them being their top stars.

Now, for a change of pace, SS matches of the night?

For me:
1988: Mega Powers/Mega Bucks (***1/4)
1989: Hart Foundation/Brainbusters (****1/4)
1990: Warrior/Rude (***1/2)
1991: Perfect/Bret (****3/4)
1992: Bret/Bulldog (****1/2)
1993: Steiners/Heavenly Bodies (***1/2)
1994: Bret/Owen (****)
1995: HBK/Razor (****)
1996: HBK/Vader (****1/4)
1997: Taker/Bret (****1/4)
1998: Owen/Shamrock (***3/4)
1999: Test/Shane (***1/4)
2000: E&C/Hardys/Dudleys (****1/4)
2001: Austin/Angle (*****)
2002: Rock/Lesnar (****1/2)
2003: Angle/Lesnar (****1/2)
2004: Benoit/Orton (****1/4)
2005: Taker/Orton (****)
2006: Flair/Foley (****1/4)
2007: Kane/Finlay (***)
2008: Taker/Edge (****1/4)
2009: Jeff/Punk (***3/4)
2010: Team WWE/Nexus (***1/2)
2011: Cena/Punk (****)
2012: HHH/Lesnar (***3/4)
2013: Punk/Lesnar (****3/4)


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

The Fab Four said:


> Yeah, and I know Brock says he's now at 100% but I can't see it happening myself. Far too risky at this point imo.
> 
> I'm not that confident he'll re-sign with WWE, but there is more chance of that I think.


You haven't seen the 30 minute video package? He's now at 1000% :brock


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Left the ones blank I haven't seen in full and went with ****+ on matches I haven't seen in a really long time.

1988:
1989:
1990: 
1991: Perfect/Bret (****+)
1992: Bret/Bulldog (****+)
1993: 
1994: Bret/Owen (*****)
1995: HBK/Razor (****+)
1996: 
1997: not Taker/Bret, probably Mankind/Hunter
1998: probably HHH/Rock Ladder Match
1999: Test/Shane (****)
2000: E&C/Hardys/Dudleys (****+)
2001: Austin/Angle (**** 3/4)
2002: HHH/HBK Non-Sanctioned (***** as of last watch)
2003: Angle/Lesnar (****+)
2004: Benoit/Orton (****+)
2005: Taker/Orton (****)
2006: Edge/Cena (*** 1/2)
2007: Kane/Finlay (***)
2008: Punk/JBL (*** 1/2) but Batista/Cena is *** 3/4 because I LOVED the ending
2009: Jeff/Punk (**** 1/4)
2010: Mysterio/Kane (*** 1/4)
2011: Cena/Punk (****)
2012: Jericho/Ziggler (***3/4)
2013: Punk/Lesnar (*****) but Bryan/Cena is close behind at **** 3/4


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Will start from the events I've seen most of or all of.

1988: Mega Powers/Mega Bucks (★★)
1997: Bret vs Undertaker (★★★★)
1999: Al Snow vs Big Boss Man (★★★¼)
2000: TLC (★★★★½)
2001: Angle vs Austin (★★★★¾)
2002: Brock vs Rock (★★★★¼)
2003: Brock vs Angle (★★★★½)
2004: Orton vs Benoit (★★★★½)
2005: Orton vs Undertaker (★★★★½)
2006: Flair vs Foley (★★★★)
2007: Orton vs Cena (★★★★)
2008: Undertaker vs Edge (★★★★½)
2009: Punk vs Hardy (★★★) - haven't seen anything else other than Orton/Cena and 9 SECONDS
2010: WWE vs Nexus (★★★½)
2011: Orton vs Christian (★★★★½)
2012: Brock vs HHH (★★★½)
2013: Brock vs Punk (★★★★½)

BORK with that MOTN streak! Rewatched the Punk match yesterday and Heyman's interference still bothers me because it happens too much (THREE times!). Other than that, it's a phenomenal match. Punk takes a hell of a beating and it's fun to watch because he, like HBK, is a small guy easy to root against. Really hope Brock signs an extension. Too many matches that need to happen, specially against you know who.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You should watch Mysterio/Ziggler and DX/Legacy from 2009 too, man. (Y)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SonoShion said:


> You haven't seen the 30 minute video package? He's now at 1000% :brock


 I watched it last night and loved every minute of Brock in it. 

I sure hope WWE do the right thing on Sunday.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So I downloaded SS 2013. Watched Christian/Del Rio, and that held up extremely well. Great match, ***3/4 for it. Loved the finish too. Brock/Punk went down a little this time, mainly due to it reeeeeeeeaaally slowing down in the middle. As for the Heyman stuff, I was actually surprised at how little he actually got involved. I remember thinking he got involved too much... then on this watch it was like he barely did anything . Technically it was only twice, with the third time he got stopped by Punk before he could use the chair, and got taken out. Sure Lesnar was able to hit the F-5 right after, but it's not like it was a normal distraction thingy with Heyman grabbing Punk's leg or jumping on him etc. Punk made a decision to deck Heyman and let lesnar recover, and it was a mistake. Still a great match, but I'd only slap around **** on it now.

Started getting sleepy after that so I decided against watching Bryan/Cena for now. Might give it a try 2morrow.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Will try to catch more full shows, including 2009. Will save the 98 show until I get to that point in Attitude Era, though. Almost up to Survivor Series (aka SCREWJOB) now so 97 is nearly finished. 

Other than that, I've seen some of the notable matches like Bret vs Bulldog and Bret vs Owen, both of which I enjoyed (★★★★ for the former, ★★★★½ for latter) but nothing else from those shows to make an official decision. Although I doubt anything else from those shows will top the Bret matches.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> So I downloaded SS 2013. Watched Christian/Del Rio, and that held up extremely well. Great match, ***3/4 for it. Loved the finish too. Brock/Punk went down a little this time, mainly due to it reeeeeeeeaaally slowing down in the middle. As for the Heyman stuff, I was actually surprised at how little he actually got involved. I remember thinking he got involved too much... then on this watch it was like he barely did anything . Technically it was only twice, with the third time he got stopped by Punk before he could use the chair, and got taken out. Sure Lesnar was able to hit the F-5 right after, but it's not like it was a normal distraction thingy with Heyman grabbing Punk's leg or jumping on him etc. Punk made a decision to deck Heyman and let lesnar recover, and it was a mistake. Still a great match, but I'd only slap around **** on it now.
> 
> Started getting sleepy after that so I decided against watching Bryan/Cena for now. Might give it a try 2morrow.


**** for Brock/Punk? That's by far the lowest rating I've seen someone give it. Hell C2D hates Punk with every fiber of his being and thinks the interference was excessive....and he still gave it ****1/2! Come on Cal! In your crazy, warped mind Taker/Austin Backlash 2002 is some how better than Brock/Punk (seem to recall you giving Taker/Austin ****1/4, correct me if I'm wrong). I wonder what you would have given it if Brock and Taker worked that EXACT match at WM 30 ? We might have seen our first ****** match from Cal :lmao

P.s. Time certainly flies when you're having fun, I've now been posting in this thread for a year! I joined the forum right around MitB 2013 and started posting in this thread during the build to SS 2013. Can't believe it's been a year already.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Onto Starrcade '96 now. Will try and watch it tonight. 

Just watched another good Benoit/Eddie match on the Nitro go home Nitro.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> **** for Brock/Punk? That's by far the lowest rating I've seen someone give it. Hell C2D hates Punk with every fiber of his being and thinks the interference was excessive....and he still gave it ****1/2! Come on Cal! In your crazy, warped mind Taker/Austin Backlash 2002 is some how better than Brock/Punk (seem to recall you giving Taker/Austin ****1/4, correct me if I'm wrong). I wonder what you would have given it if Brock and Taker worked that EXACT match at WM 30 ? We might have seen our first ****** match from Cal :lmao
> 
> P.s. Time certainly flies when you're having fun, I've now been posting in this thread for a year! I joined the forum right around MitB 2013 and started posting in this thread during the build to SS 2013. Can't believe it's been a year already.


We all know I'm crazy . And I did say around ****, so not a definite rating .

Taker/Lesnar working that match probably would have sat better with me tbh . Especially the Heyman interference because Undertaker IS a threat to Lesnar .

Wow, you've been here a whole year? Look at me... 11 years :|.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You should check out MITB 2013 again for the sake of self-celebration, Chris. 

You wouldn't regret it though:
Shield/Usos: ***3/4
WHC MITB: ****1/4
AJ/Kaitlyn: **3/4
Jericho/Ryback: **
ADR/Ziggler: ***3/4
Cena/Henry: ***3/4
All-Stars MITB: ***3/4

Badass PPV.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I remember giving that match around the four star mark, too, on the first watch. Punk didn't do too much for me and his sloppiness in some executions didn't bode well for the quality peaking as high as others had it. 

Second watch, though? Loved it. Not the moty but dammit if I didn't enjoy every bit of it. Went way up after that.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching Starrcade '96. Makenko/Dragon opener was super, loved it tbh.

Ultimo Dragon was the last protégé of Bruce Lee? Wouldn't he have been like about 7 at the time lol.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

MITB and SummerSlam both ruled last year. Actually, last summer was just awesome in general. And then the next few months happened. NoC, Battleground, and Survivor Series = :lel

Started SummerSlam 05 yesterday but got tired and stopped after Rey/Eddie. I'll probably start sometime late today


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

After closing last night with Brock vs Punk, I decided to follow it up with another No Holds Barred Punk match against a favorite of mine. Choice became the LMS with Orton from Extreme Rules.

I think this may be their best match together after this rewatch. Everything clicks together perfectly fine to create a solid contest with both men dishing out punishment on each other starting in the ring then heading out to ringside before it's lights out for Punk with a third RKO from the top rope. I'd probably up the rating to ★★★¾. Enjoy this more than their WM match now because that one is too one-sided and a bit short. This one gets the right amount of time, splits the offense pretty well and has some good spots. The chair around the throat into the steel post was pretty sick in particular.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rah said:


> I remember giving that match around the four star mark, too, on the first watch. Punk didn't do too much for me and his sloppiness in some executions didn't bode well for the quality peaking as high as others had it.
> 
> Second watch, though? Loved it. Not the moty but dammit if I didn't enjoy every bit of it. Went way up after that.


It happened that exact same way for me. Initially watching live I had Cena/Bryan over Punk/Lesnar by like a quarter star because I thought there was some incredibly slow moments and Heyman's involvement bothered me, but on the rewatch a couple weeks ago it was damn near flawless. Cena/Bryan I originally had no real problems with and it got even better the 2nd time. Numbers 1 and 2 for my MOTY with Taker/Punk a VERY close 3rd.

And yes, MITB last year was indeed an awesome PPV. One of the very few cards WWE has been able to put together in recent years where everything on the show is good and watchable (with Jericho/Ryback being the only real exception).


----------



## Dynamite madness (Mar 23, 2014)

Somebody Review These TV matches with HBK. 

HBK vs Chris Jericho RAW 7/21/03 (****)
HBK vs Chris beniot RAW 05/03/04 (****1/4)
HBK vs John Cena RAW 4/23/07 (****1/2)
HBK vs Shelton Benjamin Gold rush tournament 2005 (****1/4)
HBK vs Jeff hardy 2/11/08 (****1/4)

Those are my ratings. What are yours.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Punk/Lesnar is fantastic and probably my pick for best match of Punk's WWE career. MitB v Cena is the only other match that could contend with it. Haven't seen that since the year it happened I think but my gut feeling is that I prefer the Lesnar match.

Always been a big fan of Punk/Orton at Mania. Can't remember their LMS so I doubt I think it's as good.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> After closing last night with Brock vs Punk, I decided to follow it up with another No Holds Barred Punk match against a favorite of mine. Choice became the LMS with Orton from Extreme Rules.
> 
> I think this may be their best match together after this rewatch. Everything clicks together perfectly fine to create a solid contest with both men dishing out punishment on each other starting in the ring then heading out to ringside before it's lights out for Punk with a third RKO from the top rope. I'd probably up the rating to ¡Ú¡Ú¡Ú¨ú. Enjoy this more than their WM match now because that one is too one-sided and a bit short. This one gets the right amount of time, splits the offense pretty well and has some good spots. The chair around the throat into the steel post was pretty sick in particular.


Are you saying the Mania match is too one sided in Punk's favor or Orton's? I'd imagine Punk's. I've got both of those matches at *** 1/2 but I prefer the Mania contest because of the legwork and selling.



Dynamite madness said:


> Somebody Review These TV matches with HBK.
> 
> HBK vs Chris Jericho RAW 7/21/03 (****)
> HBK vs Chris beniot RAW 05/03/04 (****1/4)
> ...


I've only seen the two bolded and my ratings would be just about identical for them (maybe **** for the Godl Rush match). The finish to that match is still fucking awesome.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

In Punk's favor obviously. All Orton did offensively was a build a mini comeback mid-match (including the ANGLE SLAM!) and then counter the springboard move into an RKO.


----------



## Dynamite madness (Mar 23, 2014)

If you get a chance, you should watch the other 3. The ones with Beniot and Hardy First.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

A match being one sided isn't a problem for me. It only becomes detrimental if the control work and selling aren't up to scratch and that wasn't the case with Orton/Punk. Cena/Lesnar is incredibly one sided for the most part and that's one of the best matches ever.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Not a problem for me either. I just like it more when both guys get their fair amount of offense in, specially when there's no size advantage.

Punk vs Orton from WM is a solid match but no longer my favorite from their series. Their Raw match from the same month deserves more attention too.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

It is quite a thought that with both diverticultis eating his body for who knows how long and with extreme inexperience in a sport ruled by guys honing skills for years, lesnar was able to dominate Mir, beat the ultimate vet in cotoure, ragdoll a longtime vet like Herring too and while not a great showing beat carwin. throwing in that brock in december 2013 since Brocks finally healthy posted his best bench press of his life age 36 610, then factor in that brock before all this more or less walked on and damn near made an NFL team (final cut) and being a NCAA HW champ all this w/o his ring work. It is truely scary that we will never know just how physically strong and dominant Brock couldve been had he not had a disease affecting him who knows how long. What an athlete


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

WrestlingOracle said:


> It is quite a thought that with both diverticultis eating his body for who knows how long and with extreme inexperience in a sport ruled by guys honing skills for years, lesnar was able to dominate Mir, beat the ultimate vet in cotoure, ragdoll a longtime vet like Herring too and while not a great showing beat carwin. throwing in that brock in december 2013 since Brocks finally healthy posted his best bench press of his life age 36 610, then factor in that brock before all this more or less walked on and damn near made an NFL team (final cut) and being a NCAA HW champ all this w/o his ring work. It is truely scary that we will never know just how physically strong and dominant Brock couldve been had he not had a disease affecting him who knows how long. What an athlete


Big fucking clap. Pin that to every Brock thread. No one realises that about his illness, hell I didn't know it was affecting him for nion ten years, he did all that he did, including reigning in UFC for crying out loud, not even at full capacity. 

I'm just pleased he is now apparently 100% healthy. Does make me wonder how long he will stay in wrestling for tbh.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Have about half an hour to kill in the morning waiting for something, so I need a short match to tide me by - Summerslam house shows have all let me down.

Best match ~15 minutes and preferably by Mysterio (excluding his stuff with Eddy). Thanks!

Edit: Henry or Cena seem the more go to options for me, if it helps. Goldust, too. Even obvious answers I accept. Gladly will rewatch anything.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

"The froggy splash" :lol Good 'ol Dusty Rhodes.

He also did an hilarious and weird grunt when DDP kicked out of a pin. (Starrcade 96).


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rewatch Benoit/Regal stuff, Rah.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

The Fab Four said:


> Big fucking clap. Pin that to every Brock thread. No one realises that about his illness, hell I didn't know it was affecting him for nion ten years, he did all that he did, including reigning in UFC for crying out loud, not even at full capacity.
> 
> I'm just pleased he is now apparently 100% healthy. Does make me wonder how long he will stay in wrestling for tbh.


I dont know a whole lot about diverticultis other than its an internal zapping of strength that I think goes for intestines. Brock gives me the impression of a guy who doesnt like wrestling and yes he is reportedly 100 percent and again im no medical expert, but I dont think itd be good for Brock to fight when as soon as he enters the octagon, his midsection is a target. I wouldnt think a body thats fought this would be receptive to getting kicked, knees and punches from experts. We may not know a whole lot about brock personally, but we know he's a family man, and I dont think wrestling in Brock's case poses as much risk. I will say if a dr cleared Brock of risk to mma fight, he's probably good as gone especially when he beat the freakin streak and if he wins/keeps the title there isnt any way Brock would ever top this run.

Obviously wrestling is an ultimate hobby/love of mine and many of us, hence we want Brock to stay, but we will probably lose him if he can physically mma fight risk free. Just my 2 cents and again im no doctor.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Seen a discussion about the SS matches of the night for each year, thought I could butt in:

1988: Hart Foundation vs Demolition- ***1/4
1989: Hart Foundation vs The Brain Busters- ***3/4
1990: Hart Foundation vs Demolition- ***1/2
1991: Bret Hart vs Mr.Perfect- ****1/2
1992: Bret Hart vs Davey Boy Smith- ****3/4
1993: Steiner Brothers vs Heavenly Bodies- ***
1994: Bret Hart vs Owen Hart- ****1/2
1995: Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon- ****1/4
1996: Shawn Michaels vs Vader- ****1/4
1997: HHH vs Mankind- ****
1998: HHH vs The Rock- ****1/4
1999: Shane McMahon vs Test- ***
2000: Dudley Boyz vs Edge&Christian vs The Hardy Boyz- ****1/4
2001: Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle- ****3/4
2002: HHH vs Shawn Michaels- ****1/2
2003: Eddie Guerrero vs Tajiri vs Chris Benoit vs Rhyno- ***3/4
2004: Chris Benoit vs Randy Orton- ****
2005: Randy Orton vs Undertaker- ***3/4
2006: Ric Flair vs Mick Foley- ***1/2
2007: John Cena vs Randy Orton- ***1/4
2008: Edge vs Undertaker- ****1/2
2009: Jeff Hardy vs CM Punk- ****
2010: Sheamus vs Randy Orton- ***1/4
2011: Randy Orton vs Christian- ****
2012: Brock Lesnar vs HHH- ***1/2
2013: John Cena vs Daniel Bryan- ****3/4


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rah said:


> Have about half an hour to kill in the morning waiting for something, so I need a short match to tide me by - Summerslam house shows have all let me down.
> 
> Best match ~15 minutes and preferably by Mysterio (excluding his stuff with Eddy). Thanks!
> 
> Edit: Henry or Cena seem the more go to options for me, if it helps. Goldust, too. Even obvious answers I accept. Gladly will rewatch anything.


Sami Callihan v. Dave Mastiff


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hogan/Piper wasn't as bad as some people say it is imo. It told the story it needed to. Yeah both men had better days lol, but it was pretty harmless.

Maybe cos I'm a big fan of Hollywood Hogan and a mark for Piper, but fuck it lol. 

"He's pulling Hogan's hair out"

Heenan: "That shouldn't take long" :lol

The finish too, with the fan run in delaying the Giant choke slam lol.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

The Fab Four said:


> Hogan/Piper wasn't as bad as some people say it is imo. It told the story it needed to. Yeah both men had better days lol, but it was pretty harmless.


Agreed. It was mostly Hogan being a heel by avoiding Piper, getting his, then following a typical formula followed by a run-in. It was never going to be a great match and they knew it judging by how long Hogan took on the outside at the beginning.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I only wish that 610 bench press from Lesnar was on camera. That shit sounds insane.



Rah said:


> Have about half an hour to kill in the morning waiting for something, so I need a short match to tide me by - Summerslam house shows have all let me down.
> 
> Best match ~15 minutes and preferably by Mysterio (excluding his stuff with Eddy). Thanks!
> 
> Edit: Henry or Cena seem the more go to options for me, if it helps. Goldust, too. Even obvious answers I accept. Gladly will rewatch anything.


How about we get both in one match? Mysterio vs. Henry, #1 Contender's Match, Smackdown 1/20/06


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I do also wonder what Brock's training regime is like atm. It was always insane even with the illness.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Rah said:


> Have about half an hour to kill in the morning waiting for something, so I need a short match to tide me by - Summerslam house shows have all let me down.
> 
> Best match ~15 minutes and preferably by Mysterio (excluding his stuff with Eddy). Thanks!
> 
> Edit: Henry or Cena seem the more go to options for me, if it helps. Goldust, too. Even obvious answers I accept. Gladly will rewatch anything.


Have you seen any of the good Ziggler/ADR matches ? Specifically Payback 13, think you would really like that


Cjack you said Wyatt will be on Jericho's podcast friday ? As in 2 days before summerslam ?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WrestlingOracle said:


> I dont know a whole lot about diverticultis other than its an internal zapping of strength that I think goes for intestines. Brock gives me the impression of a guy who doesnt like wrestling and yes he is reportedly 100 percent and again im no medical expert, but I dont think itd be good for Brock to fight when as soon as he enters the octagon, his midsection is a target. I wouldnt think a body thats fought this would be receptive to getting kicked, knees and punches from experts. We may not know a whole lot about brock personally, but we know he's a family man, and I dont think wrestling in Brock's case poses as much risk. I will say if a dr cleared Brock of risk to mma fight, he's probably good as gone especially when he beat the freakin streak and if he wins/keeps the title there isnt any way Brock would ever top this run.
> 
> Obviously wrestling is an ultimate hobby/love of mine and many of us, hence we want Brock to stay, but we will probably lose him if he can physically mma fight risk free. Just my 2 cents and again im no doctor.


I've always heard that divirticulitis is when you're intestines become inflamed, and with Brock it got so bad there was actually a rupture leading to his fecal matter (gross I know) leaking into his body and causing severe infection and immense pain. Brock's strength was sapped for years because he wasn't getting all the nutrition one would normally get from their food, the one doctor said Brock could have been operating at something like 75% capacity from all the way back to 2002. So yea. Brock is a total freak of nature, and you can call me a sap but I truly think Brock is 99% if not 100% natural. I just can't see him being a steroid guy. For as jacked as he is, it actually fits his enormous frame. He doesn't look like Eddie, or Benoit, or Cena, or Hunter, where they have muscles literally bulging through their skin. And Brock has never to my knowledge torn his biceps or quad or any of those injuries that are caused by steroid use. He's been pretty indestructible his entire career, other than his illness.

Also, Brock actually got raided by the DEA when he was down in OVW because they thought he was ordering steroids online. When they opened up all his packages all he had was vitamins and supplements, nothing illegal. Kinda telling tbh.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> ADR/Christian: ****1/4 (I'm sure I'm higher on this than anyone but fuck it I love it so much)


You'd be upended, fella. :hayley3

and seconded on Callihan vs Mastiff for Rah.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Anyone else seen the video yet on wwe.com of Stephanie training in the gym? Taking this Summerslam match totally seriously.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Fab Four said:


> I do also wonder what Brock's training regime is like atm. It was always insane even with the illness.


http://www.allstarworkouts.com/brock-lesnar-workout-routine-and-diet-plan/

Don't know if it's legit but here's what I found.

COREY, look at BROCK using the smith machine. But I'm not defending it since I've felt much better doing squats and bench press with a free barbell. 



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Anyone else seen the video yet on wwe.com of Stephanie training in the gym? Taking this Summerslam match totally seriously.


Yeah, I wish they would have also had workout clips for Brock and Cena building up to the match similar to how they did for Brock and Rock back in 2002.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Oh no... come on Brock.  He probably does smith machine squats so he doesn't have to engage his core as much. That's my guess. Upright rows I can totally understand.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Anyone else seen the video yet on wwe.com of Stephanie training in the gym? Taking this Summerslam match totally seriously.


Pretty sure that's just how she trains on the regular.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Maybe that explains why his calves look so small compared to his upper body.  (just looked through the workouts on that link and there are no calf exercises, lol)


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

You guys have no idea how disappointed I am in WWEShop being out of stock on the Heyman Blu-Ray, it costing $42 in total to get it to Canada and no retailers having it here in Ottawa. fpalm

I hope Brock stays in wrestling, especially now that he's healthy. He's got a sweet gig now. Works as much as he does making $5 million. Don't leave, bork :brock2


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Christian/Del Rio from Summerslam 13 blows their ladder match to bits. Punk/Orton LMS sucks imo, their WM match is sooooooooooooooooo much better. Survivor Series 03 is bad outside of Shawn's performance in the Bischoff vs Austin match. Taker/Vince = A Snuff Film.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

:lmao @ Jim Cornette burying the shit out of Piper vs Hogan steel cage match on Raw.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Christian/Del Rio from Summerslam 13 blows their ladder match to bits. Punk/Orton LMS sucks imo, their WM match is sooooooooooooooooo much better. Survivor Series 03 is bad outside of Shawn's performance in the Bischoff vs Austin match. Taker/Vince = A Snuff Film.


Agreed. w/first statement. Ladder is bleh.

Obviously agree w/the second statement. LMS is a total joke. lolOrton in gimmick matches.

Not on board w/SSeries 03 being a one match show. I enjoy the ambulance match far, far too much. And Undertaker killing a guy for ten minutes does things to me. And I like the elimination match for everything it had. Not just Shawn fighting the odds.

------------

Well Diesel vs Mabel was something. Jheri was spot on, I'd say. Everything was fine before any shenanigans occurred. Holy shit moment literally made me flip out. Even better b/c there is no dramatic set up for it. He just drops. Another entertaining show. SummerSlam is so consistent. As we all know.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Good compliment to go with Heyman's November 2001 promo on his new compilation:

xm9l63_mick-foley-promo-raw-11-12-2001_sport


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I know some people prefer Sheamus/Bryan ER 12 over Punk/Bryan OTL 12, obviously most disagree, I reckon it's no a contest here in Sheamus/Bryan's favor.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk/Bryan OTL is my choice for fourth greatest WWE title match. Sheamus wasn't that great in the Extreme Rules 2012 match, even if Bryan's performance was fantastic. Every bit as GOAT as Brock's performance later that night. Man were we spoiled.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Wrestlemania 30

*Daniel Bryan vs. Triple H w/Stephanie McMahon*

I’m really struggling to come up with a reason why this wasn’t a perfect match. The winner going into the main event justified this being a wrestling match and not just violent brawl between guys that hated each other. Triple H and Bryan both understand that winning the match would hurt the other more than brutally beating them or anything like that. So they had a wrestling match where both of them tried to win. That one fact made Triple H trying to win by count out a genius move instead of a really stupid move because Triple H is supposed to hate him more than anything. 

The match escalated perfectly. Bryan tried to beat Triple H on the mat early on and they had some really good exchanges that were just refreshing to see in a WWE ring. Triple H avoided the injured shoulder of Bryan at first as he tried to beat him at his own game. 

Which bring me to Triple H’s fucking amazing heel performance. Wait, he didn’t cheat or anything, why is it a great heel performance? It was an amazing heel performance because he’s an arrogant bastard that thinks he’s better than Bryan and can’t even imagine that Bryan winning was possible. He has his wife announce him to the ring, come out to an over the top entrance where he really looks like the King of Kings and then tried to beat Bryan all on his own with no help. Most heels act arrogant but they usually end up cheating. Triple H didn’t because he was so confident that he KNEW he was going to win and that he didn’t need to take any short cuts. Also he had Stephanie at ringside with him and she was just fantastic. She never got involved in the match physically but the way she was talking trash to Bryan from bell to bell was just amazing. 

Anyway, after the good technical stuff early on we see Bryan take a huge dive off the top rope onto the floor. It was a big bump that he took and I loved that he just went for it all early in the match. It just shows how he was desperate to win and wasn’t holding back. He didn’t go for the big move early but as soon as he had the chance he took a big risk. Once that big dive took place there was a noticeable change in the intensity of the match as things really picked up. That’s another thing that I love about the match; it just builds and builds until at some point you realize you’re seeing something amazing. 

Things do pick up and Triple H has a chance to injure the arm and Bryan takes a big bump on the announce table. From there an amazing control segment starts where Triple H goes right after the injury. The control segment was good because the offense looked great and Bryan really looked like he was in a lot of trouble. This wasn’t Bryan’s best selling performance by any mean, it’s really the only thing I can knock in the match, but it was good enough and you got the impression that there was shoulder pain consistently when he was on offense.

Bryan makes his comeback, it’s great, and then you get the build up to the big finish that was just amazing. They didn’t spam finishers but did a lot of stuff that built up to the end. I loved seeing things like Triple H hitting a Dragon Suplex on Bryan and just seeing things that you don’t normally see in the WWE anymore. Bryan kicking out of the pedigree was amazing, especially because it was right after a spinebuster and there wasn’t even the slightest hesitation for the pin. Everything was built up well and the ending didn’t disappoint and the match ended at the right time. 

Obviously I loved the match. I just wrote an absurdly long review for it because there was just so much stuff that I loved and wanted to talk about. This is the other type of Wrestlemania classic. Not the one where the guys do all of these amazing things and have an “epic” match but the kind where 2 talented workers get to just have a kickass match in the ring. 
*****3/4* 


*The Shield vs. Kane and The New Age Outlaws*

What an ass kicking. I don’t think Kane or NAO got in any offense at all. This lasted about 3 minutes and was all Shield. It was actually a pretty great beat down for the few minutes that it got. Probably better that it went down this way.
**1/4* 


*Andre The Giant Battle Royal*

As far as Battle Royals go this was pretty fantastic. You didn’t get one of those long periods of time where nothing happened and nobody was eliminated. There was a constant stream of eliminations and a lot of them were really memorable. Ziggler was pretty hilarious in this as he wore his bright pink t-shirt just so he would stick out in the ring. To his credit he was all over the place during the match. Anyway the pacing was good and the match was genuinely fun to watch. The ending was also pretty fantastic because it really looked like WWE was creating a new star with this match. No things didn’t work out but nobody can take away this moment from Cesaro and for that night he looked like he was going to be a huge star very soon. If we’re talking straight Battle Royals I’m not sure if I can name one that is better. If they are this quality every year I have no problem seeing this on the main card at every Mania.
*****


*Bray Wyatt w/Harper and Rowan vs. John Cena*

I’m having a really hard time rating this match. There was really good psychology and story telling from Wyatt and Cena. Wyatt wanted to break Cena and have him snap. He wanted to make Cena stop being Cena and do something out of character. That’s a really cool concept and Wyatt antagonizing Cena worked well and Cena did a good job with body language and facial reactions to make it look like he was close to snapping. On paper that all sounds good right? And it probably would have been a good match if they went 15 minutes. However, this went far too long and while it told a cool story it was boring. That’s really the best word that comes to mind for me and I hate to admit it because it should have been great. It seems like they put together a 15 minute match and tried to stretch it out for like 25 minutes. The pace was bad and it wasn’t enjoyable to watch. 

There were some things that I really did like. Cena’s proactive approach to Harper and Rowan was fun. If he had the chance he would take a shot at them before they had the chance to get involved in the match. It worked and it made Wyatt look better in defeat because Harper and Rowan weren’t particularly effective despite being there. Harper and Rowan didn’t look too stupid either. I mean when Cena just dives at them when they are standing at ringside it’s not really their fault or anything. Of course this was all erased in their matches after this but for this one night the Wyatt Family didn’t look stupid. 

I hate rating matches that I know were worked well but just weren’t that enjoyable to watch. It’s like if someone is making a pizza and they make it perfectly but the cheese on the pizza has gone bad. I want to credit them for doing a good job making the pizza but it’s really hard to ignore the fact that the pizza doesn’t taste good. 
***1/4 *


*The Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar w/Paul Heyman* 

This is horrible to watch. I don’t really mean that in a bad way though. I don’t think there’s some single emotion that wrestling is supposed to make you feel so I’m fine with really anything that holds my interest from bell to bell. And this held my interest the entire time as it was one of the saddest things that I’ve ever seen in a wrestling ring. And no I don’t mean sad in a bad effort or anything like that. I mean sad in that I wanted to cry when it was over. I hadn’t seen this since I was in attendance and I have to say that knowing what happens here puts this match in a different perspective. It’s the death of the Undertaker. 

I could write a review from a kayfabe perspective and it would probably be identical to what I’m about to write. Brock Lesnar destroys the Undertaker in a match that is just sad to watch. Things were going OK until the Undertaker took that horrible bump on the outside. He was totally out of it after that point and I have no idea how he continued. He was fucking calling the match when he was probably half conscious. Lesnar beats the shit out of him and just doesn’t stuff. Undertaker shows some signs of life throughout the match but other than a few strikes and one Tombstone (where going back you just wish it was the finish) it was all Lesnar. The ending is one of the most shocking moments in wrestling history and is something that I’m never going to forget.

I never want to watch this again but I couldn’t look away. The Undertaker debuted in WWE a month before I was born. He was a constant in wrestling for as long as I can remember and this was the weakest I’ve ever seen him look. They had a story going with Shawn and Triple H were he would look more and more human until Wrestlemania 28 when he looked like unbeatable Undertaker once again. He not only looked human here but he looked like an old broken man. 

This is pretty much impossible to rate as I’m not sure if something like this has ever happened in a wrestling ring before. I also don’t like the idea of rating a match when the guy that called it had no business even being in the ring. I’m glad I watched this again because it’s a totally new experience seeing this when you know that it’s the end of the Streak. Not to get crazy with the ratings but I don't know if I want to give this a DUD or 5 Stars. How do you rate a match that makes you feel overcome with sadness but is also something that you sit there watch and can't look away. 





_Divas Championship Invitational_ 
*AJ Lee(c) vs. Nikki Bella vs. Brie Bella vs. Eva Marie vs. Naomi vs. Topless Cameron vs. Summer Rae vs. Natalya vs. Rosa Mendez vs. Summer Rae vs. Layla vs. Aksana vs. Emma vs. Alicia Fox vs. Tamina 
*
I think this might be the worst time to ever go out there and have a match. Everyone was pissed before this even started. This was fine for what it was. If you were in the match you got a spot. Some of them were OK. Nothing great and some of the people in the match had no business being in a Wrestlemania match.
*1/2 ** 



_Triple Threat Match for the WWE World Heavyweight Championship_
*Randy Orton(c) vs. Batista vs. Daniel Bryan*

The feel good moment that the night needed to end with. And it was a pretty great ride getting to that moment. Bryan was in total lunatic mode as he would attack both guys with reckless abandon. They naturally responded with taking him out of the match whenever they had the chance. Now this is the confusing part of the review so be warned. It wasn’t good when Orton and Batista were along in the ring together. But that’s kind of good isn’t it? I mean the whole point of the fans rallying behind Bryan is that they didn’t want to see guys like Orton and Batista in the main event. It was only fitting that they didn’t do so well when they were alone in the ring together. I mean I didn’t like seeing but wasn’t that bad because it was bad…. Moving on. 

Bryan makes his early rally and locks in the Yes Lock and from there it looked like the fix was in again against Bryan as Triple H, Stephanie and referee Brad Armstrong all make their way in. Batista hits a Batista and when Bryan kicks out at 2 he brings the crowd back to life and they just explode. Bryan taking out the Authority that wasn’t in the match was great and you felt like he could ride that high to a win. Of course the match takes a different turn as Batista and Orton again try to take him out of the match. We see a brutal table bump and Bryan is put on a stretcher. There was this awkward moment where Batista seemed stumped as to what he should do because Orton took a bad bump too and needed some time I think. Well they get in the ring together and it wasn’t great. Bryan getting back in the ring to start the finishing stretch was amazing. Everyone nearly had a heart attack at a Batista nearfall and the end of the match was the culmination that had been built up for 8 months. 

I really enjoyed the match despite the down points. And it ended in one of my favorite moments ever. I remember Eddie and Benoit in the ring at Wrestlemania 20 but I wasn’t really old enough to appreciate how good they were and how special that moment was. Daniel Bryan is my favorite wrestler and seeing him win the main event of Wrestlemania after beating Triple H in the same night is just amazing. He’s the guy that made look outside the WWE for wrestling, I’ve seen him wrestle in front of 200 people in a disgustingly hot venue, I stopped watching WWE for months after he was released, and now I saw him have one of the best one night performances ever. 

The match had all this cool stuff and a ton of drama but it told a consistent story of one guy trying to rise against the Authority on his own. And for this night he was able to do it all on his own. The match wasn’t a masterpiece like Bryan’s first match but this was a ton of fun and the suspense was brutal at times. 
***** *
​Great showing and fitting for a Wrestlemania. The whole show is a rollercoaster ride. It starts off high with the cool opening segment and Bryan beating Triple H cleanly and it brings you to the lowest low when the Streak ends only to pick you up again at the main event. Battle Royal was fun as well. It’s a real shame that I didn’t enjoy Cena/Wyatt very much or we would be getting close to one of the best Manias ever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

God I prefer Danielson vs Sheamus in a gigantic landslide. I don't feel a connection to the OTL match like I do the two out of three falls. Not at all.

So I started the best of Smackdown set from those specific years. It has been quality like I remembered it being. Undertaker vs Mysterio from Christmas was a hell of a sprint. Even w/the non finish I think it blew away their already good Royal Rumble match. Stuff was immense. And who knew Morrison vs Dolph two out of three falls was so good despite only getting seven minutes. Using the injury storyline from the week prior really helped develop the match into more than just fluff w/a stip under a rushed scenario of time. Very complete. I was impressed.

Miffed they showed highlights of the Kane vs Knox series, but instead put a shitty Divas match on here right after. Bastards. Gonna seek out and watch all the matches now to know what is probably the best series nobody remembered happened. I see no way I don't go bonkers for those two dudes smacking each other around.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Miffed they showed highlights of the Kane vs Knox series, but instead put a shitty Divas match on here right after. Bastards. Gonna seek out and watch all the matches now to know what is probably the best series nobody remembered happened. I see no way I don't go bonkers for those two dudes smacking each other around.


Did they all happen on Smackdown in 2009? If so I'll give em a watch too, got them on my PC .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*WCW Starrcade 1996:*

*WCW Cruiserweight title – Dean Malenko (c) v Ultimo Dragon* ***3/4
*WCW Women’s title – Madusa v Akira Hokuto w/Sonny Onoo/Kensuke Sasaki* *1/2
*Jushin Liger v Rey Mysterio Jr ****1/2
*Chris Benoit w/Woman v Jeff Jarrett* **1/2
*Tag titles – Outsiders (c) w/Syxx v Faces of Fear w/Jimmy Hart* **
*US title – Diamond Dallas Page v Eddie Guerrero* ***
*The Giant v Lex Luger* *1/4 (Sting showed up though so :mark
*Hollywood Hulk Hogan v Roddy Piper* **

Opener was excellent i though, really enjoyed it. Liger/Rey is good, just not as good
as it could have been i guess. Liger was only a few months in after the brain tumour so, and alot of it was a beatdown on Rey, but it had its moments.

DDP/Eddie was alright too, nothing grand but perfectly fine. Funny that DDP is still getting quite loud
face reactions, more than Eddie in this match, despite being the heel. Jarrett/Benoit was the same in that regard,
mind you, not alot of people like Jarrett is guess, so.

Main event is just there lol, but it wasnt as bad as some make out IMO. It told the story it needed to. Had to laugh at the ending though, Giant had to hold onto Piper in a chokeslam for forever as a fan run in and Hogan and the ref had to 'get rid of him' first.

Not a bad show IMO. Worth watching.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I like Sheamus/Bryan over Punk/Bryan OTL as well, both are in my top 5 2012 matches alongside Taker/HHH, Shield/Hell No & Ryback and Cena/Lesnar, but I would not in any years say that it's a "no contest" or a "gigantic landslide", but different opinions gon be different opinions, amirite? :shrug


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

#ROOT said:


> Did they all happen on Smackdown in 2009? If so I'll give em a watch too, got them on my PC .


First two are. Third happens on Superstars in 09. Final happens on a Superstars in March leading up towards WM.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> First two are. Third happens on Superstars in 09. Final happens on a Superstars in March leading up towards WM.


Got Superstars 09 too, so only one I ain't got is the last one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

On youtube. Only about three minutes. Worth the watch.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Punk/Bryan blows Bryan/Sheamus


----------



## Choked by Benoit (Aug 15, 2014)

Srdjan99 said:


> Punk/Bryan blows Bryan/Sheamus


Maybe by a slight margin


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I wish everyone wouldn't no-sell TaylorFitz's reviews, they are awesome and this WM 30 one in particular was rather good. That's probably the highest rating I've seen given to Hunter/Bryan, but you fully justified it in you're write up so I really can't complain (though I will complain how you have that match at ****3/4 and Benoit/Rocky at * ). Good stuff man. Just curious, does that make Hunter/Bryan you're current MotY? What are you're thoughts on Zayn/Cesaro Arrival (my MotY) or Wyatt's/Shield EC (my current #2 for MotY)?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I gave my green rep, so I did my job. Plus I love the reviews of old shows on the Network. My god, were those old non-SvS PPvs bad or what?

Rewatched GOAT vs. GOAT from OTL 12 and still stick by my statement. I cannot find a single flaw in any moment in that match. Absolutely none. Not one. Nada. Zilch. What's even more amazing is how this match did not have any finisher kickouts and only had one finisher that connected, which led to the finish in a creative manner. Not only did it make Bryan's kickout of the GTS in the MITB 12 match that much greater, it also made the match feel fresh since it did not resort to the typical WWE-style main event when it didn't need to. Punk and Bryan both do a great job in their work when it comes to finding other ways to build up drama besides just hitting finishers. The art of counter-wrestling cannot be overstated.

So William Regal once said that after talking to Ricky Steamboat about his WM 3 match against Savage, he couldn't appreciate the match the same way he did before? Anyone hear anything about this?


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I wish everyone wouldn't no-sell TaylorFitz's reviews, they are awesome and this WM 30 one in particular was rather good. That's probably the highest rating I've seen given to Hunter/Bryan, but you fully justified it in you're write up so I really can't complain (though I will complain how you have that match at ****3/4 and Benoit/Rocky at * ). Good stuff man. Just curious, does that make Hunter/Bryan you're current MotY? What are you're thoughts on Zayn/Cesaro Arrival (my MotY) or Wyatt's/Shield EC (my current #2 for MotY)?


I'll admit I probably should have given Rock/Benoit more than 1 star. I still hated it but it probably wasn't that bad. But I did fall asleep watching it and that's how I'm justifying it. 

And that Wrestlemania review is far too long for me to really expect many people to read and it's on something that has been discussed a ton so not like I was expecting a lot of discussion. 

I don't really have a match of the year because I don't keep up with enough non-WWE stuff. I get the odd PWG show or maybe a CZW show or something but I know there's good stuff happening out there that I'm not watching. Also I've only watched all the good WWE matches once as Wrestlemania 30 is the only show this year that I've watched again after seeing it live. 

I'm pretty sure Bryan/Triple H would hold up but Bryan/Wyatt, Shield/Wyatts, and Evolution/Shield all were pretty awesome. 

I really liked Cesaro/Zayn but I wasn't blown away by them. It reminded me of what they they would outside of NXT. It was pretty great but almost with a nostalgia factor thrown in for me. Zayn is the man when he plays a babyface though and Cesaro matches up to him perfectly. I'm probably in the ****-****1/4 range on it. 



The Fab Four said:


> *WCW Starrcade 1996:*
> 
> *WCW Cruiserweight title – Dean Malenko (c) v Ultimo Dragon* ***3/4
> *WCW Women’s title – Madusa v Akira Hokuto w/Sonny Onoo/Kensuke Sasaki* *1/2
> ...


Classic WCW card with the way those ratings worked out. Put DDP/Eddie on before the tag title match and it would fit their mold exactly. You get all the hard workers having good matches early on and then the old guys and The Giant come out and are much less impressive. Hogan/Piper really does suck and that fan running into the ring totally ruins the ending because nobody was even paying attention to what was going on. It was kind of cool to see the reaction when people realized Piper won but I remember as a kid being mad that he didn't win the title because I always thought it was a title match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

It's funny, cos alot of people bring that up regarding the title, and to an extent it's true. 

But in the whole buildup, the title wasn't mentioned at all, not once, from the minute Piper debuted until the Starrcade match.

I guess people just thought it was a given it would be a title match. They made it out be 'who the bigger icon was'. Easy cop out for Hogan I guess.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Malenko/Dragon was a childhood favorite of mine. I was only 4 years old when it happened, but somehow I found this match on Limewire in 2002 :lol. Malenko GOATing as a babyface, although I legitimately don't recall what caused him to turn in the first place. He was just feuding with Mysterio as a heel. What happened?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Malenko/Dragon was a childhood favorite of mine. I was only 4 years old when it happened, but somehow I found this match on Limewire in 2002 :lol. Malenko GOATing as a babyface, although I legitimately don't recall what caused him to turn in the first place. He was just feuding with Mysterio as a heel. What happened?


I can't actually remember now lol. I do remember he tried to take I think it was Woman from ringside at one point. He did get a big babyface reaction at Starrcade, esp from a jumping Tombstone he did. Crowd were disappointed when Dragon won. Really good match though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, Dragon was managed by Sonny Onoo, who was basically the Japanese Paul Heyman, so yeah. Guess Malenko was a default babyface when you think about it. 

I haven't watched it in weeks, but this week's NXT apparently had two good matches in Bayley/Sasha and Neville/Breeze so I'll check it out. Anybody can confirm those two are worth my time?


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

The Fab Four said:


> It's funny, cos alot of people bring that up regarding the title, and to an extent it's true.
> 
> But in the whole buildup, the title wasn't mentioned at all, not once, from the minute Piper debuted until the Starrcade match.
> 
> I guess people just thought it was a given it would be a title match. They made it out be 'who the bigger icon was'. Easy cop out for Hogan I guess.


Starrcade 1996 took place 2 days after my 6th birthday so it's not like I really knew the details of the feud. I didn't even know who Piper was until he appeared in WCW. I learned soon after that he had been around for a while (thanks to my Wrestlemania 1-13 VHS set) but all I knew was that this guy was fighting Hogan and he seemed like someone that would be able to bear him. I just assumed it was for the title. 

Keep in mind that at this time I thought the 12-Man, 3-Team Uncensored 87 Battle Royal clusterfuck was going to be everyone fighting and if you fell down you were out of the match because it was billed as "Last Man Standing."

Also I feel like it's a safe assumption that the main event for one of the biggest shows of the year wouldn't be a non-title match.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Malenko/Dragon was a childhood favorite of mine. I was only 4 years old when it happened, but somehow I found this match on Limewire in 2002 :lol. Malenko GOATing as a babyface, although I legitimately don't recall what caused him to turn in the first place. He was just feuding with Mysterio as a heel. What happened?


I feel like most Japanese guys that worked on WCW were heels. During this time Sonny Ono pretty much managed all of them and he was a heel manager. I think Malenko was the face just because Dragon was heel.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Sheamus vs Bryan >>> Punk vs Bryan

Only seen them twice each but the former held up and the latter went down. Will rewatch OTL just in case because I was kinda in nitpick mode the last time.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Btw, has anybody heard the latest Jericho podcast? His wrestling "guest" is none other than... Bray Wyatt. And no, it's NOT out of character. So awesome that sometimes there are guys who aren't exactly breaking kayfabe just because.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bryan/Punk OTL - ****3/4 MOTY
Sheamus/Bryan ER - ****1/4

I'll need to re-watch their (Bryan/Punk) MITB match again at some point to see if its actually any good or if I still think it's pretty blargh. Maybe I'll just wait until I get to 2012 with my rambles 8*D.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Speaking of rambles...... Cal's too lazy and/or indecise regarding 2006, isn't he? 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Speaking of rambles...... Cal's too lazy and/or indecise regarding 2006, isn't he? 8*D


I'm 4 minutes into my first 06 ramble actually 8*D.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

About damn ti-wait, will you finish it in one go? 8*D.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*shakes magic 8 ball*

Ask Again Later.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Fuck magic 8 balls, what happened to the whole concept of "one defines his own destiny" (in this case chances of watching a PPV on one sitting)? :side:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone watched the Cornette: A Corny In The UK Doc? Got it today on DVD.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Fab Four said:


> Anyone watched the Cornette: A Corny In The UK Doc? Got it today on DVD.


Aye, watched it and about 4 of his live shows. Really great stuff .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> About damn ti-wait, will you finish it in one go? 8*D.





#ROOT said:


> *shakes magic 8 ball*
> 
> Ask Again Later.


*asks again later*

No.

I got up to the main event... and decided I needed a break tonight and I'll watch it tomorrow .


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hey *Rah*, did you watch a match this morning? I have no idea what time it is there but I'm sure you're at least 6-9 hours ahead of me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm not really sure Dean Malenko was even much of a heel during his Cruiserweight Championship days. He was just...Dean. Like he always was. Then eventually WCW crowds just blew up for the guy.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I'm not really sure Dean Malenko was even much of a heel during his Cruiserweight Championship days. He was just...Dean. Like he always was. Then eventually WCW crowds just blew up for the guy.


Your right. So far he just turns up, wrestles, then leaves. He isn't really in any storyline going into the start of '97.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Honestly didn't get branded w/a defined alignment till 98 came along in the feud w/Jericho. Where he was unanimously known as a babyface. Then Four Horsemen happened, etc.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Does anyone remember that Dean Malenko vs. Curt Hennig cage match on Nitro? Hennig had the most boring offense ever, but the crowd was hot for Malenko. And then Arn came in and kicked ass.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

For some weird reason I believe I do remember that. I think I remember Rick Rude being involved too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watched it a few months ago. Bad match; great Arn Anderson ass kicking moment. So it ended up being worth seeing.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cesaro vs. Ambrose on Smackdown tonight was really good. Just a totally fun back and forth match. I nearly jumped out of my seat when I thought Cesaro was gonna use the UFO... but he didn't. 

Ziggler vs. Titus was fun stuff too. Miz TV segment with Roman was entertaining and the continuation to the Miz/Ziggler and AJ/Paige feuds were good. Black Show vs. Harper & Rowan happened but I wasn't paying attention.  I think it was really short anyway.

-------------------------------

Random question. Does anyone think it's possible we get a double turn at Summerslam between Jericho & Wyatt? Like, what's left for Wyatt to do as a heel? His momentum has been almost completely derailed. I actually don't even remember the last time he wrestled. haha. He won't be in any title picture anytime soon if Cena keeps the belt and he still wouldn't be if Lesnar or Rollins came out with it. I'd prefer Jericho as a heel anyway. What do you guys think?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

There is no way that Jericho is turning heel. The only way he got booed in the past few years was when he faced Punk. Nobody wants to boo Jericho anymore. Wyatt still has legs as a heel, but with that mercenary as champion, I'm not sure where those legs can go. Maybe Sheamus for a one month program. And then Dean Ambrose and/or Roman Reigns. Why did the GOATs have to leave our television screens? I'm still really looking forward to their match at Summerslam.

Bah, this all wouldn't have happened if Dolph Ziggler got the push that everyone has been asking for.

EDIT: Apparently Sting and Regal had a contract signing before their GAB 96 match. Anyone aware of this?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cesaro keeps working vs the same people, but truly don't mind b/c he's still pumping out awesome matches weekly. Who needs a sustained push when that keeps happening? I can say this jokingly b/c guys in good positions atm are fine by me.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Cesaro vs. Ambrose on Smackdown tonight was really good. Just a totally fun back and forth match. I nearly jumped out of my seat when I thought Cesaro was gonna use the UFO... but he didn't.
> 
> Ziggler vs. Titus was fun stuff too. Miz TV segment with Roman was entertaining and the continuation to the Miz/Ziggler and AJ/Paige feuds were good. Black Show vs. Harper & Rowan happened but I wasn't paying attention.  I think it was really short anyway.
> 
> ...




I absolutely think Bray needs to stay as a heel. Look at this roster, there is just a total dearth of top level heels. Currently, the only full time, main event heel is Randy Orton. That's it. Bray needs to get to that main event spot again. The way he can do it? Feud with Ambrose once his program with Rollins is done. Boosh. That will instantly become everyone's favorite feud and will elevate both talents substantially. I see Cena feuding with Rollins once he's freed from Dean, and Dean going after Bray. Then where does that leave Roman? Is there anyway to work a Reigns/Cesaro feud? The best way to keep Romans steam is to have him work a series of kick ass matches, and once he's done with Orton Cesaro is far and away the best option to help him get those notches on his belt. If they some how manage to make those 3 feuds work simultaneously while Lesnar lurks in the shadows as the mercenary champion I'll have to stand up and give WWE a round of applause.


----------



## Rick Sanchez (Dec 30, 2012)

Yeah, I doubt Jericho will ever be heel again.

I expect them to bring Batista back at some point and face Brock. If Lesnar stays champion until Wrestlemania, no doubt he will have a Big Dave match during the reign.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kind of troubling how shallow some of the pool is for WWE atm. Someone like Orton is good to have around on name value, but we all know he's a shell of what he used to matter. Only there to be fodder for a big win & that's about it. Meanwhile, a heel like Rollins is being protected & rightfully so. Triple H is only part time. Basically the same deal as Orton, only the implied notion of him working is larger. Bray is around. He'll probably be ok after he trumps Jericho. He'll just need a new program and be good. Cesaro can & probably should be there, but they're so iffy on allowing him to be it is their own fault. And then that's it, right? Don't need to mention Brock b/c we know his role. He's the biggest one of them all. Exclusive to the max. Potentially may work a few more PPVs this year, of course. We'll still have to see how that works.

Rest are all midcard cats fine in their roles. Hard to believe Miz would be around the next name I'd shoot out. He's already back in a better area than some others. Well, Harper & Rowan are in the mix too. They're just a unit so they have that to fall back on to keep their credibility level. Can't be going higher than Bray right now. Blimey, forgot about Rusev. Yeah, he'll soon matter.

Truth is, the only reason why this is a problem is how overexposed the product is. Three hours on Monday. Main Event. Smackdown. And hell even Superstars to an extent. And a bit too many PPVs. One a month, fine. That's a standard format. But the occasional two a month is pointless. We all know this.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Hey *Rah*, did you watch a match this morning? I have no idea what time it is there but I'm sure you're at least 6-9 hours ahead of me.


Watched your match first cos HENRY. Adored it, and it sent me down a rabbit hole of sub 10 minute matches Rey had in 2006 that I think just kept being better than the last. That Finlay/Rey match. Wow. Iirc there's a match Rey has with Orton that kills. Rey for worker of the year? Well, close. BENOIT and Finlay were awesome.

Will write my thoughts later, as I want to cover everyone's suggestions, but this has been a great little dip into wrestling for me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> EDIT: Apparently Sting and Regal had a contract signing before their GAB 96 match. Anyone aware of this?


Think this is it:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh man that was fucking glorious! Regal backhanded Sting so hard the Stinger swore! :lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well I watched NXT this week, and let me tell you - Sasha/Bayley was a good sign of things to come for Takeover 2. That was a good little match, actually. Sasha was nothing short of a bitch, Bayley had good comebacks despite some iffy selling and the crowd was into it. Good.

Also watched Luchadores/Murphy & Blake being a nice little sprint, one that makes me impatient to see


Spoiler: Takeover 2



The Ascension finally lose the titles to Cara & Kalisto, I suppose


And finally the long anticipated Neville/Breeze, which took some time to start for me, since the 1st half of the match was pretty much Breeze being Neville's bitch, but eventually it did kick into a good enough to a gear to grab me. I liked the story of Breeze doing whatever he could to get out of the Red Arrow's way, and the match itself followed the competitive struggle style of the Zayn/Breeze match, and the ending made perfect sense. Also, sickest. Tornado. DDT. EVER. Pretty good stuff, even if in the STARS I wouldn't give it more than ***1/4 really. Little longer and a better ending would've give it more for me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*One Night Stand 2006*

It's ONE NIGHT STAND II: Wasn't this only supposed to happen once? Like once in a lifetime? DAMMIT WWE.


Show starts off with a Paul Heyman promo. It can only go downhill from here . A "FUCK YOU CENA" sign .

Poor Paul, he has to hype up the NEW ECW :lmao. The fans are excited for it. Oh the disappointment they would be in for. Despite the fact the new ECW was overall better than the original 8*D.


*Jerry Lawler Vs Tazz*

:mark: OLD SCHOOL HEEL LAWLER :mark:. He slaps the fuck out of Joey Styles on his way down to the ring. Ha.

Oh yeah, btw, Tazz can't wrestle. Not in a "you can't wrestle" way, but in a "THE DOCTOR SAYS YOU CAN'T WRESTLE" way .

Joey jumps Lawler, Lawler sets him up for the Piledriver, Tazz locks in the Tazzmission from behind, and Lawler gets choked out.

Probably a top 10 original ECW match 8*D.

OMG OMG OMG a "PORK" sign in the crowd :mark:.

Not giving this a DUD because, well, it's fun for what it is.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - **


*Randy Orton Vs Kurt Angle*

CLASSIC ECW MATCH UP RIGHT HERE~!



Tazz asks Joey if he thinks Orton looks out of place here, because he thinks he does. And Tazz is right. Orton is talented, therefore out of place in ECW 8*D.

Yes, I'm gonna be shitting all over ECW throughout this ramble .

Orton is returning from his suspension... so maybe he DOES fit in with the ECW guys!

What the FUCK did they do to Angle's theme music? 

Seriously, what is that chant? FLUB FLUB ANGLE FLUB FLUB? I've heard it tons of times over the years, and I've never once understood what they are actually saying.

PUSSY~! I understand that chant :lmao.

BREAK HIS ANKLE~!

Angle went straight for the Ankle Lock, and Orton was pretty great at fighting for his life and struggling to escape.

ANGLE'S GONNA KILL YOU~! Oh man, a few months later he'd be going up against JOE IS GONNA KILL YOU~!

FUCK YOU ORTON~!

Some great EEEEE SEEEEEE DUB action here with Angle applying a HEADLOCK on the mat :mark:. 

8*D

Huh, I wonder what was said there. They've chanted FUCK YOU ORTON and PUSSY, but something was just bleeped out lol.

Angle totally schooling Orton on the mat, slapping the back of his head for good measure.

Lol, Angle lets Orton apply a hold on him, and Angle just slips out of a headlock twice, then hits a suplex to escape the third. THAT is the kind of Angle we should have gotten more. Have him make sure we all know he's better than everyone else with the amateur shit.

Wait... are they chanting FUCK OFF CENA now? Why?

Orton is in control of the match now. No idea how he did that. 

Angle keeps countering and locking in holds on the mat. Yey. And of course Orton keeps using his favourite hold, the headlock. Just in case the ECW fans were getting bored .

:lmao seconds after I wrote that, we got a BOOORING chant. It's fine for Angle to use a rest hold, but Orton? FUCK HIM .

Well despite being beat up and worn down by Orton, a single back suplex from Angle somehow cures him completely .

ANGLE SLAM~! Aaaannnd a kickout. Of course. Can't be finishing a match with a finisher! That would be silly.

YOU SUCK DICK~!

Absolutely MASSIVE crossbody from Orton! Looked like he connected pretty hard with Angle too :mark:.

Ankle Lock, and this is over with.

Hmmm... I guess it's not an awful match. Has some good stuff, but didn't do too much for me. Could have been worse .

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*F.B.I. Vs Super Crazy & Tajiri*

Holds and counters on the match early on. Nothing to write home about until Tazz makes a BOB BACKLUND reference :mark:.

Tajiri gets tagged in. KICKS~! :mark:

:lmao at Tajiri screaming like a girl as he throws Little Guido into the corner. 

:lmao Super Crazy missed a moonsault :lmao.

Double team move to Super Crazy, with Nunzio hitting a front dropkick while Tony Mamaluke holds him in position. Tajiri seems offended that people are kicking without him, so he storms into the ring and kicks the fuck out of everyone :lmao.

BLACK WIDOW BY TAJIRI~! I prefer AJ Lee's version 8*D.

Tarantula by both Tajiri and Super Crazy!

Big Guido comes in and gets kicked to fuck.

Tajiri ends up alone and gets pinned.

Honestly... this was meh. Most of the time it was "do something gain control, then sit in a submission hold" over and over again, except for when Tajiri was in the ring and kicked everyone to death. Tajiri is fucking BOSS.

After the match, THE BIG SHOW shows up and has a stare down with Big Guido, and murders everyone.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Yey JBL has come back to ECW One Night Stand again to save us! :lmao one of his security guards looks JUST LIKE Steve Austin, and there is a fan in a Mysterio mask behind him that could very well be Rey too :lmao.

He brings up the Blue Meanie incident, then says RVD was made in WWE by Vince McMahon. He then announces he's replacing Tazz on Smackdown!


*Rey Mysterio Vs Sabu - World Championship Extreme Rules Match*

Remember when they took the "Heavyweight" part out of the World Heavyweight Championship so Rey could hold it? 

Rey is getting booed because... I dunno. He's now a success in WWE? 

SABU VS REY MYSTERIO IS A DREAM MATCH~! :lmao no, it really isn't.

CHAIR FIGHT~!

Holy shit, Sabu jumped off a chair and didn't botch!

If there is one thing I like about Sabu (and trust me, there IS just one thing lol), it's his way of using a chair. He doesn't swing it, he just fucking THROWS IT at the face of his opponent.

:lmao what the fuck was that? :lmao. Ok, so Sabu set a table up between the apron and guard rail. Puts Rey on it. Sets a chair up in the ring... runs, jumps off the chair onto the ropes, then launches himself... onto the floor :lmao. Rey moved out of the way, yet Sabu wouldn't have even hit the fucking table :lmao. HE MISSED :lmao.

Rey with a Seated Senton to Sabu, putting them both through a table! See Sabu, THAT is how you jump off the ropes AND land on the table! I guess that's something they teach you in WWE and not ECW 8*D.

BALLS FIRST ONTO A CHAIR~! Ouch.

CHAIR TO THE FACE~! Double ouch.

Sabu gives it another go with the running + chair + jump + ropes + jump again through the table, and lands a fucking DDT!!! Through the table!!!

And in typical ECW fashion, the match is ended there because they can't fight any more :lmao.

:lmao at the doctor or whatever he is who declares that they can't fight any more. Sounds like a right girl :lmao.

Match is garbage and it ending like that, in ECW of all places, is shit.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Edge, Mick Foley & Lita Vs Terry Funk, Tommy Dreamer & Beulah McGillicutty - Extreme Rules Match*

Fucking FINALLY. Something worth watching on this damn show!

Foley cutting another epic promo. STEPHANIE MCMAHON, THE GENIUS BEHIND ECW~! LONG LIVE THE ALLIANCE~!

Lita's boobs seem to want to leave her top. Awesome.

Beulah and Lita weren't even supposed to be part of this match, but after they make bitchy comments at each other, they decide to join in the fight anyway lol.

FOLEY VS FUNK~! :mark:

Funk starts off with SLAPS, which based on every wrestler's account who has ever been slapped by Terry, is worse than being punched by everyone else :mark:.

The match has quickly turned into a brawling mess :mark:. Terry is punching Foley in the eye to try and re-open the cut from the last time these two hooked up.

Funk throws a trash can at Edge like Sabu throws chairs, and it actually looks more brutal than when people swing it.

:mark: Foley punching Terry in his eye :mark:.

Dreamer and Edge do some stuff in the ring. Nobody cares. FOLEY AND FUNK~!

BARBED WIRE BOARD~!

Dreamer gets his ear "stuck" in it apparently... yet there is no blood or signs of any damage .

Foley goes into the barbed wire and his hands are bleeding straight away. I guess Dreamer isn't as manly as Foley 8*D.

BARBED WIRE TO THE FACE OF TERRY~!

Apparently a wooden board of barbed wire isn't enough, so Foley asks Lita to pass him some more to wrap around his arm!

FOLEY SMASHES HIS BARBED WIRE COVERED ARM INTO THE FACE OF FUNK~!

MY EYE! GOD DAMN! MY EYE, MY EYE OH GOD! Repeat of Lawler/Funk Empty Arena Match :mark:. This is the greatest thing EVER :mark:.

I remember seeing this for the first time and honestly thinking Funk injured his eye. Guy rules at selling his eye!

Lita legdrops barbed wire into Dreamer's balls... while Beulah stands on the apron and does NOTHING. Pfft, she's a terrible wife! 

MR SOCKO MANDIBLE CLAW TO BEULAH~!

MR SOCKO MANDIBLE CLAW AND SPEAR TO DREAMER~!

And now Edge proceeds to dry hump Beulah on live PPV .

FUNK IS BACK~! With the biggest eye bandage ever and a 2x4 wrapped in barbed wire!!!

FIRE~! FUNK HAS FIRE~! FOLEY IS ON FIRE! FOLEY IS ON FIRE AND GETS KNOCKED THROUGH THE BARBED WIRE BOARD!!! HOLY SHIT! HOLY SHIT! HOLY SHIT!

CROSSFACE TO EDGE USING THE BARBED WIRE~!

CAT FIGHT~!

DREAMER DRIVER TO LITA~! What a piece of shit Tommy is!!! 

SPEAR TO BEULUAH~! Dry hump pin, and this is over!

God I love this match. It has the crazy ECW shit you would expect, but it's done extremely well by talented guys like Foley and Funk. Some violence involving women too, which was an ECW staple. One of my favourite crazy multi-person brawls . Foley and Funk RULE.

:lmao at Funk stuck in the barbed wire, blood all over his face and bandage, and he looks like he's ranting about losing the match :lmao. God... Funk is GOD.

*Rating: ****1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 7*


*Balls Mahoney Vs Masato Tanaka*

They hit each other with beer. In plastic cups. EEEE SEEEE DUB! EEEE SEEE DUB!

:lmao Tanaka loses after ONE chair shot. Maybe he hadn't recovered from being put through a billion tables last year? 

What a total load of NOTHING this match was.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


:lmao Eugene shows up :lmao. ECW fans are a bunch of cunts. THEY ARE BOOING A SPECIAL PERSON. Sandman shows up and canes the poor retard. BE A STAR, Sandman.


*John Cena Vs RVD - WWE Championship Extreme Rules Match*

RVD is cashing in MITB tonight in hopes of winning the WWE title!

Joey Styles says RVD might be the greatest wrestler to never hold a world title :lmao. Jericho might be the man of 1004 holds, but I probably have a list of 1004 wrestlers more deserving of a world title than RVD 8*D. Just replace every instance of ARM BAR with ARN ANDERSON .

Oh god there is still 30 minutes of the show to go :|. Please someone tell me I forgot about a 15 minute title celebration from RVD at the end.

IF CENA WINS WE RIOT~! I think after they saw that they should have called the fans' bluff and let Cena win . LET'S SEE HOW EXTREME YOU REALLY ARE, FANS!

The fans are pretty hilarious though when they keep throwing Cena's shirt back at him :lmao. So how does Cena respond? BY THROWING IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN. :lmao one fan spit on it and another wiped his arse with it :lmao. Glorious. If they can fill 20 minutes of the match with this I'll throw ***** at it .

FUCK YOU CENA chants followed by toilet paper being thrown at him :lmao. This might be the best start to a match ever .

:lmao RVD was just winning a test of strength against Cena. What? 

Props to WWE for leaving the crowd chants intact all the way through this show btw. Seems the only time they bleeped anything out was when the wrestlers said FUCK.

:lmao RVD just won a punch off with Cena :lmao. Insane.

The crowd are shitting all over Cena, so he gets back at them by launching RVD at them. OH, YOU DON'T WANT MY SHIRT? HERE, HAVE RVD YA FAT FUCKS!

Cena is getting "Same old Shit" chants for doing his usual offence. RVD does his usual offence and OMG ITS TEH GREATEST THING EVER!!! ECW fans are just hypocrites .

FOOK ME, RVD might suck balls 99% of the time, but he can take one hell of a DDT, and the one he just took on a chair was beautiful.

Then he takes another great bump as he goes head first into the chair while it's in the corner!

Cena is picking up momentum and getting into his groove despite the hostile crowd, and he appears to be having fun now at their expense.

:lmao RVD lifts Cena up for a back suplex then moves towards the ropes... and I have no idea if he was going to bounce Cena off the ropes ala Tully Blanchard or if he was trying to crotch him or just dump him outside, but RVD basically loses his strength and just kinda drops Cena into the ropes and Cena tries to hang on to save whatever it is they were trying to do, but ends up falling to the floor anyway :lmao. And they chant YOU CAN'T WRESTLE to RVD? Give me a fucking break .

STFU TO RVD~! Oh man, imagine if RVD tapped out? How GOAT would that have been?

RVD gets the ropes, and the referee drags Cena off even though it's a fucking EXTREME RULES MATCH. So Cena decks the referee. And so he fucking should have! Biased ECW referee. The Nick Patrick of ECW!

Ha, speak of the referee and sure to appear! He comes Nick Patrick because... apparently there were no other ECW referees in the back, but there WAS a Smackdown referee waiting for his turn? LOL.

OMG SOME MYSTERY GUY JUST SPEARED CENA THROUGH A TABLE!!! It's Edge! THANK YOU EDGE chants, despite what a giant cunt he was earlier.

FIVE STAR FROG SPLASH~! But Edge took out Nick Patrick! So Paul Heyman shows up, makes the pin and RVD is the NEW WWE Champion! Because... Heyman is also a referee?

Overall, this match is a ton of fun, mainly thanks to the fans and how Cena reacts to them. As far as the actual quality of the match though... it's lacking in a lot of ways. There is no real story to it; just 2 guys taking turns at being in control for a few minutes. And that's it really. Take the crowd away and this would be awful .

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 8*​


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, I loved watching Cena/RVD just for the crowd lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I think Cena beating RVD would've been the only time ever where the fans were insane enough to ACTUALLY riot :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs RVD from ONS :lmao

and not b/c of a stupid atmosphere. it's horrible.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It's horribly HILARIOUS, that's what it is. ECW crowd shitting all over Cena = funniest terrible match ever :lmao.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rah said:


> Watched your match first cos HENRY. Adored it, and it sent me down a rabbit hole of sub 10 minute matches Rey had in 2006 that I think just kept being better than the last. That Finlay/Rey match. Wow. Iirc there's a match Rey has with Orton that kills. Rey for worker of the year? Well, close. BENOIT and Finlay were awesome.
> 
> Will write my thoughts later, as I want to cover everyone's suggestions, but this has been a great little dip into wrestling for me.


Rey was close but Finlay didn't have any time off (AFAICR). Benoit could have had his best year in 06 but missed like 5 months. And do you not remember the 4/7/06 Rey/Orton? It's Orton's career match and performance. IMO Rey's best match in WWE behind ''the'' Eddie match, as well.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Finlay was worker of the year in 2006. Man carried Lashley to like ten good matches. Rey would be #2, and Big Show I guess deserves recognition as well. From an in ring perspective, it wasn't a strong year.

Cena/RVD is ace. Wrestling is supposed to be fun. And that's what that match was. Surreal experience. Angle/Orton ruled too. RVD had a lot of good stuff that year, like the Test match. And the Holly match. But I'm interested now in seeing how Cal rates Unforgiven.

:lmao Regal


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Anyone have a link to Finlay/Mysterio 3/20/2006? It's the one that ends with Orton hitting Mysterio at the end, and goes ~15 minutes. Only match of theirs I can find is off a June episode, and a lead up to that shitty One Night Stand nonsense Cal just reviewed. :side:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Rey was close but Finlay didn't have any time off (AFAICR). Benoit could have had his best year in 06 but missed like 5 months. And do you not remember the 4/7/06 Rey/Orton? It's Orton's career match and performance. IMO Rey's best match in WWE behind ''the'' Eddie match, as well.


Ortons career match for me is vs Foley Backlash 2004, and my favorite performance of his is in the 1/17/06 SD Benoit match, but as far as him just being a straight up cocky, arrogant, no good cunt, yea you would be really hard pressed to find a better performance than that 4/7/06 Mysterio match. Everyone else seems to prefer their NWO 06 match but I'll take the SD one any day of the week. It's a damn near flawless match, Rey was at his very best as was Orton.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rah said:


> Anyone have a link to Finlay/Mysterio 3/20/2006? It's the one that ends with Orton hitting Mysterio at the end, and goes ~15 minutes. Only match of theirs I can find is off a June episode, and a lead up to that shitty One Night Stand nonsense Cal just reviewed. :side:


This should be it, but the commentary is in Spanish (I don't think that's gonna bother you though):


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rah said:


> Anyone have a link to Finlay/Mysterio 3/20/2006? It's the one that ends with Orton hitting Mysterio at the end, and goes ~15 minutes. Only match of theirs I can find is off a June episode, and a lead up to that shitty One Night Stand nonsense Cal just reviewed. :side:


I can upload next week (with Cole/Tazz on commentary) if you want.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Ortons career match for me is vs Foley Backlash 2004, and my favorite performance of his is in the 1/17/06 SD Benoit match, but as far as him just being a straight up cocky, arrogant, no good cunt, yea you would be really hard pressed to find a better performance than that 4/7/06 Mysterio match. Everyone else seems to prefer their NWO 06 match but I'll take the SD one any day of the week. It's a damn near flawless match, Rey was at his very best as was Orton.


Nobody seems to prefer the NWO 06 match except maybe the ginger. I don't know what you've been seeing, but the Smackdown match is universally lauded here and outside of these confines (as it should, because it's glorious). I don't know if I would pick 4/7/06 over the NWO match any day of the week, but I would take it at least four days. I still don't know if I would put it in the top ten of either man's career though. I think I have four Benoit matches above it for instance. And two Christian matches. And in Rey's case, the man is a walking *****+* worker.

Here are some more Finlay/Henry/Benoit/whoever bouts in 2006 worth checking out if anybody is in the mood:

Mysterio/Benoit/Lashley vs. Finlay/JBL/Orton (2/24)
Finlay vs. Lashley (3/17)
Londrick vs. MNM (4/7)
Chris Benoit vs. Finlay (5/5)
Mark Henry vs. Paul Birchill (5/12)
Mark Henry vs. Chris Benoit (5/26)
Finlay/Regal vs. Hardy/Scott (6/16)
Finlay vs. William Regal (8/4)
Finlay vs. Rey Mysterio (9/8)
Finlay vs. Bobby Lashley (9/15)
Chavo Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio (9/22)
William Regal vs. Brian Kendrick (11/24)
Chris Benoit vs. Finlay (11/24)
Londrick vs. Blue Bloods (12/8)
Brothers of Destruction vs. Finlay/Booker (12/22)


So yeah. FINLAY!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cesaro vs. Van Dam has been added to the Summerslam pre show. I think it's likely to be Van Dam's last match before another break. Can't wait to see Cesaro lose another one...


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Nobody seems to prefer the NWO 06 match except maybe the ginger. I don't know what you've been seeing, but the Smackdown match is universally lauded here and outside of these confines (as it should, because it's glorious). I don't know if I would pick 4/7/06 over the NWO match any day of the week, but I would take it at least four days. I still don't know if I would put it in the top ten of either man's career though. I think I have four Benoit matches above it for instance. And two Christian matches. And in Rey's case, the man is a walking *****+* worker.
> 
> Here are some more Finlay/Henry/Benoit/whoever bouts in 2006 worth checking out if anybody is in the mood:
> 
> ...



C2D, Cal, ATF, and I think 1 other person said they preferred NWO last time I brought it up, and no one spoke up to side with me. So there 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Paul Birchill the pirate guy? I wasn't watching around this time so I missed the Boogeyman and the Pirate.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> This should be it, but the commentary is in Spanish (I don't think that's gonna bother you though):





The Fab Four said:


> I can upload next week (with Cole/Tazz on commentary) if you want.


Looking up on genickbruch.de, their 20/03/2006 match happened on Raw #669. That match Evans linked was their Smackdown encounter the same week. Fun watch, as Spanish commentators are the best thing in wrestling always. But the search goes on! 




The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Paul Birchill the pirate guy? I wasn't watching around this time so I missed the Boogeyman and the Pirate.


Yeah, that's him. The story went that he traced his heritage back to Blackbeard and wanted to honour his pirate heritage by, badly, copying Johnny Depp and swinging off the Smackdown set that Rey used to jump through. Shit was terrible. Still, it had its upside. Katie Lea Burchill looked kinda passable in those pirate outfits. Career highlight for her (or my teenage hormones... w/e).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

PIRATE PAUL BURCHILL was fucking BOSS. I legit enjoyed the fuck out of that gimmick. He seemed to be having fun, and I never felt they went too far with any of the "comedy" aspects of it either. Worst they did was have Regal dress as a BUXOM WENCH and well, Regal in drag is always hilarious anyway .

I have all of Raw 06 on my PC Rah . I'm sure I can hook ya up .

Edit: Looked up that ep of Raw and there is no Finlay/Mysterio. TBH no idea why there would have been, what with the brand split actually being a thing back then . Just a SD match on the 24th later in the week on SD, which you said is the one that was already posted?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Watch that Ziggler/ADR PB 13 match though after these Rey matches Rah, I've never seen your thoughts on it so I'm assuming you havent seen it. It isnt to long either in length, and IMO both guy's career performances


Count me in the group who prefers nwo 06 >>


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

> WWE RAW #669
> 2006/03/20 @ FedEx Forum in Memphis, Tennessee (United States of America)
> Finlay defeated Rey Mysterio (15:02 minutes)



?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


Got this off the DVDVR supplementary issue, which says its on Smackdown: 




> 1. Finlay v. Rey Mysterio WWE 3/20: You have to love the fact that week after week Smackdown is just busting out awesome matches. Here you have the best heel in wrestling facing the best babyface in wrestling for 15+ minutes on free TV. Really can't ask much more then that. Finlay is amazing here, just killing Rey at the start, I mean the initial beating was almost Finlay on Lorenzo level bad. It got to the point where Tomk complained that Rey went too long without any offense, when we went back and checked it was only 90 seconds of control. You know you are kicking someones ass, when 90 seconds seems like an eternity Rey had some nice mini comebacks in the early part, including a 619 miss immediately into a sliding dropkick. Then Finlay had another great ring skirt spot, where he balls Rey into the skirt and just kicks the crap out of him. Finlay was almost at Arn level here at stooging for Rey's big spots, but still maintaining his aura as an asskicker. I didn't even mind the finish, as Finlay did a great job of distracting the ref, and Orton's RKO looked really good.




????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????



EDIT: it's a dark match. FUCK'S SAKE, guess SegundaCaida don't know how to work a calender. None of their dates seem right for the Lashley/Finlay bouts, too. Cunts.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well... maybe they taped SD the same day as Raw? They did a few "Super Tapings" over the years where they did both. Maybe that's the reason?

So that would make it the 03/24/2006 match. They had 3 on SD that year:

Rey Mysterio Vs Finlay - Smackdown March 24th 2006
Rey Mysterio Vs Finlay - Smackdown June 9th 2006
Rey Mysterio Vs Finlay - Smackdown September 8th 2006

.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, the one I have is marked 03/21/2006 (I assume this is actually the 24th one then, judging by the list Cal posted)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k8yaDplBPkA1xK8CCRz Well here's the 24/03 match in better quality AND English commentary anyway .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

:lmao @ CAL's ONS 2006 ramble. That FLUB FLUB chant is actually "Fuck him up [insert wrestler] fuck him up!". Now I'm going to always hear FLUB FLUB whenever it's chanted in a match i watch. :lol

Finlay vs Rey from Smackdown 2006 is wonderful. No, not the March one that ends with Orton's super RKO. I'm talking about the one where Rey is wearing red pants and is "distracted" by Chavo (not literally) and unable to focus during the match. Yeah1993 will know which I'm talking about.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> C2D, Cal, ATF, and I think 1 other person said they preferred NWO last time I brought it up, and no one spoke up to side with me. So there


Your information is out of date and/or nonexistent.  I never preferred the NWO match over SD. The SD match was in my top 5 Orton matches while NWO made the top 20. 

Watched NWO just a couple of nights ago and it's probably Orton's best pure heel performance ever. Just the arrogance and douchebaggery. That smirk is so punchable and the way he toys around with Rey during his control segment... :lmao It reaches a point where you think the commentary is legitimately out of character and the hatred expressed is real.

Then to top it all of, Orton closes it with the hilariously delivered "I AM GOING TO THE MAIN EVENT OF WRESTLEMANIA!".

Smackdown match is better but for a heel performance, Randal is on top of his game at NWO.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah Pirate Paul Birchill rules. And I think C2D most definitely prefers the 4/7/06 match. That other guy you were thinking of might have been me, as I used to feel the same, but now I'm on the side of the Smackdown match. Even honest Dave has the Smackdown match above all.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks Cal. Saves me time.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Might start another ramble tonight. Might be NWO. Really wanna watch Orton/Rey again after peoples have been talking about it . And I'm sure I could manage to sit through Undertaker/Angle as well .


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I've always heard that divirticulitis is when you're intestines become inflamed, and with Brock it got so bad there was actually a rupture leading to his fecal matter (gross I know) leaking into his body and causing severe infection and immense pain. Brock's strength was sapped for years because he wasn't getting all the nutrition one would normally get from their food, the one doctor said Brock could have been operating at something like 75% capacity from all the way back to 2002. So yea. Brock is a total freak of nature, and you can call me a sap but I truly think Brock is 99% if not 100% natural. I just can't see him being a steroid guy. For as jacked as he is, it actually fits his enormous frame. He doesn't look like Eddie, or Benoit, or Cena, or Hunter, where they have muscles literally bulging through their skin. And Brock has never to my knowledge torn his biceps or quad or any of those injuries that are caused by steroid use. He's been pretty indestructible his entire career, other than his illness.
> 
> Also, Brock actually got raided by the DEA when he was down in OVW because they thought he was ordering steroids online. When they opened up all his packages all he had was vitamins and supplements, nothing illegal. Kinda telling tbh.


I believe that it was actually HGH, and they just didn't have testing for it yet. The NFL didn't even start testing for it until recently (if at all).



> a Louisville detective told TSG that the material was some kind of growth hormone


It was Brock's lawyer, of course, who characterized it as a "vitamin."

He's obviously on something, IMO. Look around his eyebrow area. It literally bulges out. There's nothing natural about that. Definitely growth hormones.

He also speaks openly about doing copious amounts of painkillers, sleeping pills, vodka, etc. I don't see why someone like that would sidestep doing steroids, when their livelihood pretty much revolves around that. 

He also was not a big guy in his high school days and early college days. Yeah, people can go through puberty and get bigger, but according to Brock, he'd been working out since he was a kid. So I doubt he suddenly got that big through just puberty. Timing makes sense, as he went away to a college where I'd think steroids would be more readily available than in Nowhereville, South Dakota. 

I also find it dodgy when a person is asked about steroids, and they say "I've never failed a steroid test." Rather than "no, I don't take them, and have never taken them." I feel that if you weren't taking them, you'd be really emphatic, and annoyed that people would even dare accuse.

Cena has mastered the art of answering things in the former way as well.

They're almost all on something, IMO. Impossible to work this schedule without it. So many vets have said the same thing, including those who don't look like steroid guys (Piper, Bret, Flair was on them, according to his divorce records). 

Having said that, Brock is also obviously a freak of nature, and I agree with you that he's one of the best athletes we've seen. I was just wondering his contract signing with Undertaker, and it's freaky how high Brock gets when he's selling the chokeslam. Brock's selling is so underrated.

Was anything worth watching on Main Event? I saw that someone asked, but I don't think that anyone answered.

Also, glad you like the Punk/Orton LMS more now, C2D!


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Whether he was on stuff or not, a 6'2", 290 pound guy, or whatever he is, moving around the way he does is just unreal. 

As for Main Event, I enjoyed the entire show this week. From Ryback calling RVD a singlet stealing feed me moron, to Rollins vs. Kingston to the triple threat tag team title match.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

*Totally Not The MotYCs For 2006​*

Okay, well, the first five probably are while the rest I liked the look of or didn't believe Lashley had good matches and had to see it for myself.


Fit Finlay vs Chris Benoit (Judgment Day 2006)
Rey Mysterio vs Randy Orton (07/04/2006)
Chris Benoit vs William Regal (No Mercy 2006)
Rey Mysterio vs Fit Finlay (25/03/2006)
Chris Benoit vs William Regal (13/05/2006)
Chris Benoit vs JBL (11/04/2006)
Mark Henry vs Rey Mysterio (20/01/2006)
Fit Finlay vs Bobby Lashley (09/05/2006)
Chris Benoit vs Fit Finlay (24/11/2006)
Fit Finlay vs Rey Mysterio (9/06/2006)
Rey Mysterio vs Fit Finlay (08/09/2006)
Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio (No Way Out 2006)
Fit Finlay vs Bobby Lashley (18/08/2006)
Fit Finlay vs Bobbly Lashley (14/07/2006)






Spoiler: really long wall of text review clump and non-organised listings



*Mark Henry vs Rey Mysterio (20/01/2006)* - what a middle finger to the crowd. Great way to put heat onto Henry with that win. That rollover into an AA Cena did to Cesaro earlier this year, may have just been trumped by Henry's rollover here. Regardless of Rey's weight, for a man that size, it's impressive.

Rey-Rey's fantastic here, timing his work and bursting at the right moments to ignite the crowd. He bumps well for Henry, who's the guy doing the cut-offs for a good majority of the match. I've always found the way wrestlers fall onto the ropes for the 619 to be a little cartoony, but the setup toward it was bang on. As long as you're inside the ring, you're not safe from Rey popping out of the woodwork with an innovative 619 to take you down for the final blow. 2006 Rey rocks! *GREAT*



*Fit Finlay vs Rey Mysterio (9/06/2006)* - Heyman's legit shock at Cole going off into his excitement over the "little bastard" was hilarious. I don't miss the Hornswaggle nonsense, but I do miss Cole's reaction to his appearances. I even more so miss Finlay and how he makes such simple things look disgusting. The way Rey takes Finlay's knee to the back made him look as if he was going to split in two. Simple, yet oh so effective. This is a very condensed match, in that they had to deliver a Rey beatdown, a comeback and Sabu interference within 10 minutes. Rey's opponents breaking up Finlay/Mysterio is a given for this year, evidently, but more time should always be given for these two to adequately flesh out their roles and grasp the viewer in. Of course this is fun, but it's not quite what you know they're capable of. *GOOD*



*Fit Finlay vs Bobby Lashley (09/05/2006)* - match starts off with Finlay assuming the role of Scrappy Doo, picking off more than he can chew, in trying to push back Lashley, his legs runnin in place, only to make no ground on the bigger guy. Lashley had a amateur wrestling background, right? Well, he's taking to Finlay like he does, with go-arounds and takedowns like a Black Kurt Angle. That and relentelssly clubbing Finlay into position should be how Lashley takes most of his matches. He's really not bad in that role. Nothing like Finaly, of course, but that's a foregone conclusion. That Irish bastard is so good at switching his roles at the drop of a hat. From vicious workover to slight-chicken heel with some of the best bumping and stooging I've seen in a long while that makes Lashley LOOK like the massive guy he actually is. You can carry yourself as a big deal, but if your opponent isn't selling you as one, you look like a chump. Well, Finlay's selling you Lashley as if he was Don West in a singlet. *GREAT*



*Fit Finlay vs Bobby Lashley (18/08/2006)* - HOLY FUCK IS LASH QUICK. He's just eating anything that Finlay comes at him with, and delivers a great shine to start this off. We're back to Finlay pinballing, again, which I can't get enough of. This went a slight bit longer than the KotR semi-final, but I'm not sure it was as good. Lashley's comeback also fell slightly flat of expectation following the long workover by Finlay. Finlay doesn't give Lashley too much, so this never strays far from merit, but there was room for things to be tigther. *GOOD*



*Fit Finlay vs Bobbly Lashley (14/07/2006)* - one thing about these guys is that while the moves within the work are identical, the formula of work differs. This feels a lot more back-and-forth than the others and, as such, the reactions they go for feel more naturally illicited. Probably the worst of the three, but the booking did well in keeping Lashley looking dominant and giving Finlay the cheating win without looking incapable, all the same, regardless. Plus we had Finlay flicking his sweat at bobby at the start. *GOOD*



*Chris Benoit vs William Regal (13/05/2006)* - why the hell is there a sign language interpretator doing the introductions? It's Vince that's deaf to his audience, if anything. Love how we get a shot of Regal snarling and the interpretor just fucks off - knowing it best not to interrupt the angered Brit. It might be a slight to the hearing impaired not being able to hear the little touches like the trash talking and grunt with every hit and hold but these two are selling everything exquisitely through their body language and facials, anyway.

Benoit wrestles super clean here, and I cannot pinpoint a single source of the slapping sounds on his offence. It's a silly point to bring up but, at this point, I was utterly sold that Benoit really did backchop Regal directly into the forehead. Knowing these two crazy fools, they probably did just shoot the shit on each other. It's a testament to their talents that they never give the other man a single point, easily, and fight their way for every inch. It just adds to the grittiness of the violent fight-like feel that these two brought in their styles. Two styles now lost to the annuls of wrestling history. *EXCELLENT*



*Rey Mysterio vs Fit Finlay (25/03/2006)* - I love Spanish commentary. Here, one half is rivalling Juan Maldad and AAA's own drunken JR for most crazy commentary dude in wrestling. He's making random mouth noises and goes fullblown cuckoo when they mention Lashley at one point. Gut-painingly hilarious how these guys go from slow drawl to the verbal equivalent of Speedy Gonzalez as the action picks up. Cracked up as the crazy guy lost his shit at the Orton interference. These guys are great.

Not the "15+ minute gem" I read this as being, but we're still treated to a six minute sprint between Finlay and Mysterio. Nothing to write home about, as there isn't enough time to let things develop, but it wasn't a waste of time, either, even if that was mostly due to commentary and Orton's walk following the RKO. *GOOD* _CAL TO THE RESCUE~!_

What we lose in the commentary, we gain in match length. FIFTEEN MINUTES OF THESE TWO AT LAST. In the space of the day, I've watched this match three times and still lose it at Finlay pointing and mouthing off Rey for getting the better of him. Pumped off of the crowd, Rey tries to hit the hand off, only to almost eat a massive slap for this injustice. Why does no one ever use the ring skirts to their advantage? Finlay's used them in every match against Rey, and I remember him making liberal use of them throughout his resurgance/return and they're always innovative and brilliant. Here Rey's making a hot comeback and he gets caught in the gonads after a mistimed dive causing Finlay to return to control for a lengthy amount of time. Not enough time to mitigate Rey's massive kicks, though. For a little guy he sure kicks like a motherfucker. So glad I finally saw this in its entirety as it's a tremendous match and right up there with the best of the 2006 matches I've binged on. *EXCELLENT*



*Rey Mysterio vs Fit Finlay (08/09/2006)* - I could watch these guys wrestle all day (okay, I kinda have). This match has an added element of Mysterio being off his game due to Vickie diminishing his relevance in her life. They do their normal Finlay workover and Rey hightspot cutoffs but Rey doing his stalls, allowing for Finlay to take charge, was nifty. Love guys hitting their head to shake their emotions. So neanderthallic. *GOOD*



*Chris Benoit vs JBL (11/04/2006)* - what I got from their Wrestlemania match is that JBL has a meaty right hand. Here, I got Benoit has a couple of his own when need be. Jillian's a pretty fun side-act to this madness. Grabbing her tits, every time JBL gets chopped to the chest, as if the vibrations are strong enough to burst the implants in her own.

Not sure I liked JBL in a few portions of this match, as he goes from place to place too willfully and non-challantly as if he's setting up spots, but he had moments of greatnesss that allows me to, at least, chalk up points in his favour. The matwork inbetween the shared three amigos was beauty in action. These two just tater each other in the face to block the other's submission attempts and just as Benoit rolls through into a leglock the free leg of JBl, that he's trying hard to lock in, goes flying into his face. To his credit, JBL is a great character work here. Even when he can barely make it to his own feet, he's tapping a downed Benoit, toying with him, like the cocky shit he is. Rather illogical, and against the cerebral character JBL plays himself off as, in having a winded JBL make a break to escape via climbing over the top of the cage. I guess they had to cram that top-rope german suplex in somewhere, though. Ugh.

The interference and clusterfuck finish does the job in progressing the split between JBL and Jillian but it's too much in too little an amount of time. It's not overly dramatic and inoffensive in the grander scheme, but it's not something I'm too positive about. Still, I'd hazard the bloodbath with Eddie as the only match that has this trumped in JBL's career. *GREAT*



*Chris Benoit vs Fit Finlay (24/11/2006)* - Benoit's back from injury and looking to overthrow Finlay from the WotY throne. He doesn't quite do so, as Finlay is on point throughout here. He's a vicious little motherfucker that's relentlessly assaulting the left leg and ripped open side of Benoit. Chavo's gotta be smiling that his PPV opponent in two days is being decimiated. Not that it much helps, as he sucks and loses in no time, anyway. It's quite hard watching guys like Finlay and Benoit wrestle, the latter more so. In the JBL cage match, Benoit shoot headbutts JBL in the back of the head as a means of slipping the crossface on easier. Here, Finlay's just busting noggins to escape from Benoit's grasp (not that it has much effect). Crummy finish is what it is, but I enjoyed the 15 minutes of action we got here. *GOOD*



*Chris Benoit vs William Regal (No Mercy 2006)* - nifty little callback to their Velocity matches with Benoit always having Regal's number with those legscissor momentum killers. Headbutts are becoming a running spot through these matches but this reaches new levels of disgusting hatred. Chop to the head, akin to that on Velocity, is now met with headbutt after headbutt that opens Regal up. Benoit smells blood and just busts chop and smack after smack to open that cut up more. His chops to Regal's face sound like fucking chairshots - and I'm now sure that these are actually hitting square on the face and aren't theatric sound effects.

Regal's a masterclass seller, but there's something about the way he does the off-balance look that seems harrowingly realistic. I swear he's going to be legitimately injured, and dying, in a match and we will never know. Though, speaking of death, I'm surprised Benoit didn't have his brain splattered across the canvas with those disgusting knee drops. Bless Regal in taking so much punishment and soldiering on yet instantly tapping as soon as benoit applied his crossface finisher. That put over the move, and the returning Benoit, huge. *EXCELLENT*



*Fit Finlay vs Chris Benoit (05/05/2006)* - another lengthy TV match from Smackdown television. For a show that barely goes an hour and a half, a third of it has been used to put on some great near-classics. When the roster has Henry, Finlay, Mysterio and Benoit, what else could you want?

These guys bust each other up for nigh on twenty minutes and it's grand. It's almost no wonder Benoit goes on a sabbatical considering he's busted open hardward and suffering some massive shots to the head throughout. Benoit's delivering it right back, though, and when he's got Finlay caught up, it really does look like he's squeezing the breath right out of him. *EXCELLENT*



*Fit Finlay vs Chris Benoit (Judgment Day 2006)* - at 25 minutes this is the longest of all the matches I've sat through. At 25 minutes this could easily steal the top spot, at worst it's going to be excellent.

It's a testament to their talents that they can work a simple collar-and-elbow into a meaningful moment that sets their match narrative. These two are relentless and won't let go; caught like two rams, as Taz mentioned. Meanwhile, it's a testament to referee logic that Robinson would believe a heel Finlay, regarding a thumb to the eye that he never saw, and almost calls the match a few minutes in. A smart move on the surface, only one that plays against Finlay as Benoit goes directly into hurt-mode in attacking that non-injured eye. You want something to complain about, Finlay? Well you damn well got it now. Two weeks after hardway blood, these loons haven't learnt a thing and are busting headbutts as means of cutting their opponents off. Surprised Finlay didn't bust Benoit's eyebrow with some of his shots. 

While Finlay did try and stray towards some shenanigans, these two played into the PPV grudge match archetype well. It felt a big deal, and they both looked like men hellbent on cementing themselves as the better guy. Whether it was on the mat or in the fight, they stopped at nothing to deliver just that. Their holds were tight, offence on point but the way they sold for each other really tipped this past their Smackdown encounter. Finlay just ragdolls onto the hard floor for benoit, off a German, and you know that's not going to be pretty on his older frame. Yet he does it, anyway, to portray Benoit as this killer. Finlay has really impressed me throughout these matches. I always thought he was great, but this surpasses even those levels. He's such an intricate "Euro" worker, that makes his holds and general work look dangerous. There's a moment in which Finlay has Benoit trapped in a dragon sleeper/hammerlock combination that I'd say is my favourite hold throughout all of the Benoit/Finlay matches. It's two simple, widely-used holds yet, in tandem, look devastating. The way he wrenches Benoit up with the bent arm, leading you to believe Benoit's about to make the cliche reversal, only to stab him in the lower back and throw him to the mat is ingenious. Benoit is doing a great job selling, throughout, but your will to support Benoit comes majorly due to just how good Finlay is here. I wouldn't say Benoit is an afterthought, but he's clearly not close to Finlay's level here. *EXCELLENT*



*Rey Mysterio vs Randy Orton (07/04/2006)* - Orton looks like a college jock who modelled himself too much off of NSync. A good looker, but on the big stage he looks drab and unoriginal. Ironic that, fast forward eight years later, and he has his look cemented, yet the flash, show-stealing performance he had here has long since past him. You often hear of a man acting possessed but that's Orton to a tee here. Of course it's a moment when his job is in jeapordy that he finally gives a damn in wrestling his all.

These two do have flash chemistry, though, with some really on-point spots. Everything comes off perfectly timed and, despite the rather high-octane nature they are wrestling, clean. Rey looked like a million bucks, coming off a Wrestlemania win, and delivering wicked sentons and springboards all over the show. It was great to see him slightly break his good guy character, to keep hitting Orton in the turnbuckle long past the 10-count. For a move that could get old, fast, Rey is truly good in protecting his finisher and both building to it and delivering it in new, exciting ways. *EXCELLENT*



*Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio (No Way Out 2006)* - not sure I get the love for this. It's good, but it's not better than their Smackdown cap-off. Randy's portraying a cocky asshole well, and he's methodical in his work, yet he still appears laboured in doing so. The armwork is a decent storypath, yet I'm not quite sure why Orton would go that route, when Rey's mainly shown a use of speed and hard kicks. The more this goes on, the more Rey is outshining Orton. Rey's selling well, and making desperate attempts to end this as early as he can. Orton started well, yet become more running through the motions as it went on. It's far short of what we had in their Wrestlemania revenge match, and didn't showcase their chemistry with play-off spots that that had. If anything this felt reversed, and should have been the TV build-up to the PPV blow-off. Especially with that flattening final few minutes. *GOOD*


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

LilOlMe said:


> I believe that it was actually HGH, and they just didn't have testing for it yet. The NFL didn't even start testing for it until recently (if at all).
> 
> 
> It was Brock's lawyer, of course, who characterized it as a "vitamin."
> ...


 I doubt HGH but wouldnt shock me if Brock took the Super soldier Serum.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Great write-ups, *Rah*. I have to disagree on Orton's look. I think his old Legend Killer look was better than now with the near bald head and beard. Also don't understand the issue with Benoit and JBL hitting a top rope German Suplex in their cage match.

Have you seen the two Orton/Benoit matches from January of that year? The 13/1 one that's the final in the Best of Seven series between Benoit & Booker and secondly, their No Holds Barred match two weeks after. They are definitely top 10 candidates if not top 5.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rah said:


> EDIT: it's a dark match. FUCK'S SAKE, guess SegundaCaida don't know how to work a calender. None of their dates seem right for the Lashley/Finlay bouts, too. Cunts.


Segunda Caida were using tape dates and not air dates for their lists and posts, I think. Air date for Rey/Finlay was 3/24.


Rah watch Taker/Henry 2/10/06. Man I have sooooo many 2006 SmackDown matches I could tell you to watch and I didn't even watch the full year yet.


EDIT - Paul Burchill is somehow overrated.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Can I get a suggestion for a mindless spotfest? Think like No Mercy tag, Do Fixer vs BG in ROH, or something along those lines.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

StuckInHell4-Life said:


> Can I get a suggestion for a mindless spotfest? Think like No Mercy tag, Do Fixer vs BG in ROH, or something along those lines.


Low Ki vs. Amazing Red. AKA the Matrix match.

EDIT: What were all the WCW television shows in 1992?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Pro, Main Event, Saturday Night, WorldWide, Power Hour.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It takes a miracle to find all of these shows. Curse that WCW for running so many television shows, thus making it impossible to do an all-encompassing WCW yearly project. Because who just wants to watch Nitro while missing out on La Parka and Bobby Eaton matches on Saturday Night?


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

Brock Lesnar Vs. Triple H two years ago. Love this match!

- Vic


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> *Totally Not The MotYCs For 2006​*
> 
> Okay, well, the first five probably are while the rest I liked the look of or didn't believe Lashley had good matches and had to see it for myself.
> 
> ...


You know, I just can't fathom the idea that nobody out there really knows what kind of value Finlay holds in the wrestling biz. I mean, c'mon. Classics w/Benoit & Mysterio end up being a given, but we're still amazed. Yet, when Finlay takes a muscled up clump of nothing that Vince would like to have everyone believe matters in Bobby friggin Lashley, The need for appraisal is far, far exceeding overload to be met at a believable degree. It's a sensation you feel you won't have enough time in the day to complete. Nor would you want it to end.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> You know, I just can't fathom the idea that nobody out there really knows what kind of value Finlay holds in the wrestling biz. I mean, c'mon. Classics w/Benoit & Mysterio end up being a given, but we're still amazed. Yet, when Finlay takes a muscled up clump of nothing that Vince would like to have everyone believe matters in Bobby friggin Lashley, The need for appraisal is far, far exceeding overload to be met at a believable degree. It's a sensation you feel you won't have enough time in the day to complete. Nor would you want it to end.


What


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao This WWE Supercard game is awesome. My team of Kofi Kingston, Fandango, Eva Marie, Great Khali, and John Cena is crushing everyone. Oh man what a wonderful thing.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> The 13/1 one that's the final in the Best of Seven series between Benoit & Booker and secondly, their No Holds Barred match two weeks after. They are definitely top 10 candidates if not top 5.


I rewatched these, recently. ***3/4 and **** respectively. They both dropped a tiny amount since the last time I watched them several years ago, but they're both great. No Holds Barred in particular is just awesome.


----------



## Heterodox (Nov 18, 2012)

Hello, just wanted to share with those who may be interested that I'm selling a bunch of rare DVDs for cheap. The movie stop near me constantly adds rare DVDs to the shelves so I'm always getting them and selling them on eBay, so be on the lookout if you're a collector. Anyways, here's what I have up now:

Royal Rumble 2007 BLOCKBUSTER EXCLUSIVE w/ Bonus disc
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291215436259...84.m1555.l2649

No Way Out 2007 BLOCKBUSTER EXCLUSIVE w/ Bonus disc
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291215437725...84.m1555.l2649

Great American Bash 2007 BLOCKBUSTER EXCLUSIVE w/ Bonus disc
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291215439713...84.m1555.l2649

Summerslam 2007 BLOCKBUSTER EXCLUSIVE w/ Bonus disc 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291215443177...84.m1555.l2649

Unforgiven 2007 BLOCKBUSTER EXCLUSIVE w/ Bonus disc (bid)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291215444618...84.m1555.l2649

Vengeance 2001 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291215446095...84.m1555.l2649

King of The Ring 2002:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291217248176...84.m1555.l2649

Thanks guys! I'll update with whatever other rare ones I'll find.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Good luck with the DVDs man. I haven't bought a WWE DVD since the Network launched. I would imagine the market on those is really hurting. Which sucks as an owner of some really hard to find DVDs. 




Summerslam 1996 

*Savio Vega vs. Owen Hart*

I know Savio Vega is generally considered to be a good worker but I thought he was horrible here. Owen is wearing a cast and everyone on commentary is talking about his arm really isn’t injured anymore. So naturally Vega goes right after it. Right he goes after the uninjured arm that is protected by a cast which would make it the strongest part of Owen. Anyway Owen kicks out of a rollup, not too powerfully, and Vega goes flying into the turnbuckle and hits his shoulder on the post. Owen works the arm well and Vega sells it poorly. When Vega makes his comeback he goes from selling it poorly to not selling it at all. The last few minutes were pretty exciting as they pick up the pace nicely. The ending was also stupid as Owen takes his cast off and hits Savio with it right in front of the ref who somehow doesn’t see it. This should have been a good opener. With decent selling and less stupidity it probably would have been as well. That’s not what happened though.
**1/2* 


_Elimination Match for the WWF Tag Team Championship:_
*The New Rockers vs. The Bodydonnas vs. The Godwins w/Hillybilly Jim and 2 upset Pigs vs. The Smokin’ Gunns(c) w/Sunny *

Highlight of the match was when I realized that one of the pigs pissed on Phineas when he was carrying it to the ring. Otherwise this was pretty terrible. The Bodydonnas were eliminated when they got pinned off a trip. I can’t think of a single positive to say about this match. Nobody did a good job and nothing interesting happened.
DUD


The British Bulldog vs. Sycho Sid 

Bad, just really bad. Bulldog was supposed to be the heel but ended up acting like a face at times because Sid was so horrible and did nothing interesting. It was kept short at least but it’s nothing I ever want to see again. Sid is just the worst and I’m higher on Bulldog than most I think but he wasn’t able to do much of anything here. 
*½* *


*Goldust w/Marlena vs. Marc Mero w/Sable* 

I’m shocked at how good this was. Even more surprising is that it was good more because of Mero than Goldust. He actually wrestled like a Wildman. Goldust went for his awkward offense (I mean that in a good way) where he would keep the pace slow and wear down Mero. Mero was he the exact opposite as whenever he had the chance he was going for a big move. Mero was also taking big bumps to let Goldust start his control segment and the guy even did a shooting star pressing which I was shocked when I saw. It’s your standard set up where Mero takes the offensive early, Goldust controls for a while, and Mero makes his comeback but it was executed well and it was really entertaining.
***3/4*



*Jerry “The King” Lawler vs. Jake “The Snake” Roberts *

You get a ton of stalling from Lawler when this starts and he continues his antics once the match starts. His main strategy appears to be getting Roberts to not wrestle and start drinking instead. Surprisingly this doesn’t work and they have a very short match. It’s not very good and for the second time of the night there is the use of a weapon right in front of the referee that the ref somehow doesn’t seem. It seems that at this time period the WWF insists on having something stupid like this on every card they have. 
*DUD*


_Boiler Room Brawl:_
*The Undertaker vs. Mankind *

I will give the match credit for being really unique as I really don’t ever remember seeing a match like this before. It was a gritty brawl that had such a real fight feel to it. They got that down perfectly and Foley was amazing in this setting. Despite the weird setting they did structure this a lot like any other match but it was done in a more brutal way. Foley just beats the shit out of the Undertaker to start things off. There is some offense from the Undertaker but for the most part the match was a fight and Undertaker was losing. Undertaker is able to even things up when Foley takes a big fall off a ladder in the boiler room and from there they work their way to the ring for the ending and it just feels like a fight that either could win. 

While the feel of the match was unique and compelling it really wasn’t that interesting to watch. I’m not really sure how I can feel this way because it was so hard hitting but I know that I really didn’t enjoy it that much. It was cool to see but it’s not something that I ever want to see again. It was long, hard to see, and just not something that was able to keep my attention. I’ll give them credit for being original and the effort involved in this but it’s tough to really say that I liked it.
***1/2 *


_WWF Championship Match:_
*Shawn Michaels(c) vs. Vader w/Jim Cornette* 

Shawn and Vader make a commendable effort to save the show. Shawn was in the underdog role but Vader was willing to sell all of his offense and it really made the whole match a lot more enjoyable. Shawn’s selling was awesome as he made Vader’s offense look like death. I’m normally not a fan of matches that have restarts and this had two of them but I have to say that it really worked here and in the end both guys looked good. Vader wins the match by count out. But it wasn’t some type of cheap count out win with the help of Cornette. No, he beat the shit out of Michaels and left him unconscious on the floor. Vader beat the champion but didn’t take the title. Michaels getting back into the ring with the guy that just beat him was a pretty gutsy thing to do as well. 

I will say that the DQ that led to the second restart was not needed at all. We got to see a more aggressive side of Shawn I guess but I feel like they were a lot of other ways they could have done that without him getting DQed. Shawn looks good because he agreed to restart the match twice and ultimately won. Vader looked good because he won by count out and it look like he would have pinned Shawn if it wasn’t for the fact that the ref had just taken a bump from him. It’s a shame that they didn’t have a rematch because I can only imagine how good it would be if they had another match that Shawn went into with the attitude he had at the end. This was really good and was a pretty good payoff to all of the build that Vader had been getting leading up to Summerslam. It’s just a shame they didn’t keep going. I guess I can’t complain too much though as Mankind got the next title shot and had one of the best matches ever with Shawn.
****3/4* ​
The undercard really sucked and I'm not a fan of the Boiler Room Brawl so this show didn't do much for me. Glad I finally got around to watching the main event though as it was really good. I've seen a good amount of 1996 now and it's absurd how Shawn is just carrying the company. It's scary to think what the state of the company would be like without him.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

The biggest FIGHT of the Summer is upon us. This card has serious potential both negatively and positively. You can see it all on the WWE network for just 9.99.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Got done with Survivor Series 1997 and that obviously includes the screwjob match. CAL can't be more right whenever he's shitting on this. Their ironman match was pretty bad but the last ten minutes of that one are better than anything here. The whole match feels like they're going through the motions and that's after 10 minutes of pointless brawling prior to the bell ringing. Other than the finish, the only thing memorable about this was the awesome flip Earl Hebner did on his back when selling the axe-handle from Bret that hit him. I guess there was too much hate and ego for them to put everything aside and have a good match.

How many other matches have there been between Bret and Shawn? I know about SVS 92 and I think there's a ladder match on the first Ladder Match DVD which I have on my computer. And I also heard about a cage match. Gotta see the rest to see if their chemistry is as nonexistent as CAL has claimed.



Ruiner87 said:


> I rewatched these, recently. ***3/4 and **** respectively. They both dropped a tiny amount since the last time I watched them several years ago, but they're both great. No Holds Barred in particular is just awesome.


The former keeps getting better every time I watch it. Phenomenal stuff.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I got at least four names from 96 I have over Shawn Michaels, and Shawn still probably had his career year then. Carrying the company is a gross overstatement. There were enough strong entities there to keep it afloat. It was only the real lower card guys who were tripe. Specifically the tag teams.

why even make the comment, lolz. waste of my time.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Biggest party of the summer tomorrow :mark: 

Saw BORK banners around town today too :brock


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Cena win reaction is what I'm waiting for. _(of course it won't happen so that's my jab on those who are taking it much too seriously, to just calm down and enjoy the fact we're getting the rematch)_


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Choke2Death said:


> Have you seen the two Orton/Benoit matches from January of that year? The 13/1 one that's the final in the Best of Seven series between Benoit & Booker and secondly, their No Holds Barred match two weeks after. They are definitely top 10 candidates if not top 5.


When I was, like, 15. 

I cannot remember the date I had of the one I was going to watch (1/13 or 1/20 - probably 1/13 if it's the final), but I grew pretty tired of watching wrestling at that point. It will happen, much like:




Yeah1993 said:


> Rah watch Taker/Henry 2/10/06. Man I have sooooo many 2006 SmackDown matches I could tell you to watch and I didn't even watch the full year yet


But I needa get on that Callihan/Mastiff match you pimped! There's never enough time in the day.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Apparently Reigns and Randal had the MOTN at tonight's house show in San Jose. THEY'RE STEALING THE SHOW TOMORROW 8*D


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rah said:


> I cannot remember the date I had of the one I was going to watch (1/13 or 1/20 - probably 1/13 if it's the final), but I grew pretty tired of watching wrestling at that point. It will happen, much like:


Make it 1/13.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I got at least four names from 96 I have over Shawn Michaels, and Shawn still probably had his career year then. Carrying the company is a gross overstatement. There were enough strong entities there to keep it afloat. It was only the real lower card guys who were tripe. Specifically the tag teams.
> 
> why even make the comment, lolz. waste of my time.


I'm really only judging on the PPVs. From what I've seen of 1996 you get usually get a good Shawn match in the main event and then you have to hope that Foley and Undertaker are also in good matches. Undertaker and Foley are amazing but Undertaker was pretty hit or miss at this time. He also had a lot of dark matches after the PPVs that I didn't see. 

Agreed with the undercard being really bad as well. And the tag team division was borderline unbearable.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm probably just a bit lower on some Michaels matches than you are. Namely perhaps vs Owen & vs Smith. I like the KOTR match, it just goes a bit too long to win me over as definitively great & I would have something such as Undertaker vs Mankind from the same night over it, etc. Still love that Sid match from Survivor Series a whole bunch. Great stuff. Match vs Vader holds up to the same level, although I thought Shawn's poor attitude at times almost ruined the match to a degree. Glad Vader is a bully _(w/enough justification on this night at least)_ to not put up w/Shawn's shit and it made for a real volatile scene that worked out well. And his best of the year was vs Mankind at Mind Games by miles. Perfect match. So, my interest in preferring Undertaker, Mankind, Austin, & Vader shows. I didn't use an Austin mention, huh? Well, still was more towards him as a whole on the year.

Tag team wrestling went from a peak w/that company to a total crashing low in the late 90's. The matches w/the upper card workers were swell, of course, but the general tag team pool was just soooo inept. It was confusing. b/c you have to assume they know how to work, right? Yet, often times, they showed you that they didn't. Wasn't until a few patches in 99 where things appeared to start to take a turn for the better. Which it eventually did come 00 & 01. So many multiman tags in the late 90's where they all fucked everything up, haha. Wrestlecrap elite. Survivor Series 98 triple threat tag. Oh man.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just watched Vader/HBK. Still really like it, Shawn's temper tantrum was of course stupid and unprofessional. Loved Vader's offense on Shawn, which he sold well.

Even though I'm not that bothered about the false finishes, I do wish they just had a 'normal finish' tbh.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, Vader def put in him check and I think Shawn knew he should play ball b/c he already got the result he wanted. And didn'-t want to continue to be potatoed. False finishes ended up looking better than probably originally planned thanks to the tantrums. Sort of that "funny how it works out" kind of booking. A wild scene from start to finish. Which is good b/c that followed Vader's kayfabe WWF career from the moment he debuted.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I wonder what things would have been like if they stuck with the plans for Vader instead of putting Sid in that position .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just watched Brock/Cena ER.

Fuck ill always love it. Lesnar's heel performance is one for the fucking ages, so many spots and moments that will live long in the memory. 

I also liked Cena's timed hope comeback spots too. 

It's just that finish that still irks me, so atm I just can't give it nearly 5 stars like I once did. ****1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

#ROOT said:


> I wonder what things would have been like if they stuck with the plans for Vader instead of putting Sid in that position .


Always known the plan to be:

Vader wins at SummerSlam
Vader retains at Survivor Series vs Shawn
Shawn wins it back at Royal Rumble

w/everything in-between. It's Time could have been Vader vs Bret in the main event. Damn. Would they really have booked Vader vs Mankind as the main event for Mind Games though? If they would have then FUCK. But, they're lucky Mankind vs Shawn was phenomenal or else.

Also, I think that PPV may have been called It's Time w/the preparation to have Vader as champion :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm now a couple of weeks until Souled Out '97. Yay, lucky me. 

It was an interesting concept imo, but not for a whole PPV. I'm not even sure ill watch it tbh, no point really, none of the matches matter.

Maybe, and I say maybe lightly, ill watch Steiners/Outsiders.

Pretty sure DDP just turned face after taking down Hall and Nash.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

PPV is a struggle. Good luck. They actually booked Jarrett vs Wallstreet...

Only positive I have is the finish to Big Bubba vs Hugh Morrus.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I just looked at the Souled Out 97 card. Thought I saw Bubba Rogers v. Mr. Hughes in a Mexican Death Match and wondered why I never saw this obviously incredible match. But I read it wrong and it isn't Mr. Hughes, it's shitty as fuck Hugh Morrus. Still, Traylor in a Mexcian Death Match is something I need to see. EDIT - it has a cool finish!??? :mark:

Guerrero v. Syxx went 13:48? The hell? Piece a shit felt like three hours. On that note why did the American Males break up match go 14 minutes? Not an appealing looking card. Best looking match is Norton v. DDP.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Their strap match from Uncensored goes just as long :lmao (Buff vs Riggs)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Always known the plan to be:
> 
> Vader wins at SummerSlam
> Vader retains at Survivor Series vs Shawn
> ...


Yeah lol, fairly certain the PPV was named after VADER . Just wonder how much better a VADER reign would have been though, since honestly I love HBK/Mankind, then Sid/HBK is great, and I'm possibly the biggest fan of Sid/Bret too. Only downer during that reign was the RR match, which was blargh. Wonder how other things would have changed too. Undertaker/Vader at the RR now Undertaker/Sid? Undertaker/Vader for the belt at WM after Shawn lost his smile and dropped the title, only for Bret to win it in the 4 way (with SID instead of Vader... damn the match just lost most of its appeal) and then Vader to win it on Raw? Does that mean Mankind and SID would have teamed together?

Huh, I actually think HBK keeping the title and losing it to Sid might have been the better option .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, not sure I can sit through the whole PPV lol. Tag match, and that Bubba/Morrus match ill probably see.

Forgot about that ladder match, ill decide when the time comes on that one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

#ROOT said:


> Yeah lol, fairly certain the PPV was named after VADER . Just wonder how much better a VADER reign would have been though, since honestly I love HBK/Mankind, then Sid/HBK is great, and I'm possibly the biggest fan of Sid/Bret too. Only downer during that reign was the RR match, which was blargh. Wonder how other things would have changed too. Undertaker/Vader at the RR now Undertaker/Sid? Undertaker/Vader for the belt at WM after Shawn lost his smile and dropped the title, only for Bret to win it in the 4 way (with SID instead of Vader... damn the match just lost most of its appeal) and then Vader to win it on Raw? Does that mean Mankind and SID would have teamed together?
> 
> Huh, I actually think HBK keeping the title and losing it to Sid might have been the better option .


See, we don't know if Sid would have went heel out of this process though. b/c he only went that route after he started working matches vs Shawn. And holy crap was he over w/the fans during this time. I remember a Sid vs Goldust match from RAW building towards Buried Alive & they were rabid for the guy. Let us not forget about NYC when he won the gold. More to it than subbing Vader for Sid in all the same spots, I'd say.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sid was the most over guy in that six man tag at International Incident even though he barely did anything. There was always something about Sid that made people cheer him when he was a heel. Every time. Even against Hogan.

When you said Shawn would barely make it into a top five for 1996, did you mean worldwide? Because once you say that, you open up the discussion to some incredible years for talents. TOO COLD SCORPIO.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

If anyone sees a big cardboard cutout of Ambrose's head at SummerSlam or RAW tomorrow night, it's probably me  

Today's the day :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So according to this SS warm-up house show report Orton/Reigns was MOTN over Ambrose/Rollins and the described as "great" Jericho/Wyatt (though I'm not taking anything for granted after Battleground). Randall Viper All Star showing his true colors 8*D


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

If Randall gives us a December Raw match vs Bryan performance, the match should be at the very least good, if not great. I would love for Randy to target a body part and just demolish it, and let's see if Reigns can sell it really well. If the WWE is so insistent on not letting Reigns work outside of his hot tag comfort zone, the best way to book this would be 2-3 minutes of shine for Reigns at the start, a nice long 7-8 minute control segment from Randy working over Reigns big time with a few hope spots, then finally Randy showing major ass and bumping like a stooge towards the finish. That sounds like a recipe for success. However, if they take the governor off Reigns and just let him do what he wants, I'd prefer them to just have a back and forth slug it out fight. We shall see.

As much as a Vader/Mankind WWE main event would intrigue me, I wouldn't give up that MindGames match between Shawn and Foley for the world, and I really mean that. One of the top 5-6 matches in company history, and my all time favorite Foley performance. Yea, Shawn keeping the title was the right choice, as much as that saddens me because how Vader was used post SS was a bummer for the most part, pardon the occasional Taker or Final Four match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

If Randall gives us a December Raw match vs Bryan performance, the match should be at the very least good, if not great. I would love for Randy to target a body part and just demolish it, and let's see if Reigns can sell it really well. If the WWE is so insistent on not letting Reigns work outside of his hot tag comfort zone, the best way to book this would be 2-3 minutes of shine for Reigns at the start, a nice long 7-8 minute control segment from Randy working over Reigns big time with a few hope spots, then finally Randy showing major ass and bumping like a stooge towards the finish. That sounds like a recipe for success. However, if they take the governor off Reigns and just let him do what he wants, I'd prefer them to just have a back and forth slug it out fight. We shall see.

As much as a Vader/Mankind WWE main event would intrigue me, I wouldn't give up that MindGames match between Shawn and Foley for the world, and I really mean that. One of the top 5-6 matches in company history, and my all time favorite Foley performance. Yea, Shawn keeping the title was the right choice, as much as that saddens me because how Vader was used post SS was a bummer for the most part, pardon the occasional Taker or Final Four match.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Yeah, it pretty much hinges on whether or not we get Good Randal or Bad Randal. I think the match could surprise a lot of people


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

Stuff I watched recently

Brock vs Cena ER 12 ****1/4 (finish sucks though)
Brock vs HHH SS12 ***3/4
Brock vs HHH ER 13 ***3/4-****
Punk vs Jericho Payback 13 ****1/4+


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Vader/Mankind, if the Cactus stuff on WCW was anything to go by, would be a glorified glorious glory of gloriousness. But hey, a near perfect match by Shawn at his best against Mick at his best is still something, after all.

As far as STUPID/Leakee is concerned (I momentarily forgot about my nickname policy :shaq), if STUPID is anything remotely resembling caring, the match should be at least a good watch I guess. Leakee can't bring down an entire GOOD control segment that much, and if done right, him exploding w/his few Moves Of Doom can be entertaining. CAN, not will. If Stupid doesn't care, however... prepare for the Dullest Party Of The Summer 8*D.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Did anyone catch the Summerslam 2K15 panel? Those little kids asked the smarkiest questions :lol. That one eight year old kid that told Roman Reigns about how he's been following him since he was known as Leakee, and that his dad told him that Reigns would only be a midcarder but he disagreed with his father. Or that other kid who asked about John Cena's thoughts about his run as the Prototype. :lmao Kids these days. Bill Watts would have a heart attack if he saw what transpired.

One thing you can't question regarding Reigns is his selling. The man has the instincts of both bumping and long term selling. It's just that offense really that's making us not care about him. Bah, I have faith in Reigns and Orton to do something decent, but man their previous matches were not good.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I don't even think Reigns selling is anything special, but it his probably his strongest suit in the ring.

As for Orton/Reigns being MOTN, I'll believe it if I see it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Orton/Reigns has a LOT of work to do if they want to get a MOTN tonight. Ambrose/Rollins could end up rocking the planet, despite the stupid gimmick, and Lesnar/Cena could blow everything away. Don't think Orton/Reigns will be up the challenge tbh.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Orton/Reigns has such low expectations a **** 1/2 *would be good enough for me. I forgot most of the card other than the big three (Rollins v. Ambrose, Orton v. Reigns, Cena v. Lesnar), but if Ziggler v. Miz is on, that could be a reasonably GOOD (not great) match.

I'm going to go with "range of stars" predictions for the matches:

Reigns v. Orton:* * 1/2* - **** 1/2* (I see the potential for both, sadly.)
Rollins v. Ambrose: ***** - ******
Cena v. Lesnar: **** 1/2* - ******* (I think it is not out of the realm of possibility, their last match was pretty damn close, and the match feels HUGE to me. Most excited Ive been for a match in a while.)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Inb4 Orton/Reigns is a ***** match while Ambrose/Rollins and Cena/Lesnar are both DUD's 8*D 8*D 8*D

Given how Bruno Sammartino joined the HOF and Bret Hart hugged HBK on live TV, anything is possible rton2


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

ATF said:


> *Inb4 Orton/Reigns is a ***** match while Ambrose/Rollins and Cena/Lesnar are both DUD's 8*D 8*D 8*D*
> 
> Given how Bruno Sammartino joined the HOF and Bret Hart hugged HBK on live TV, anything is possible rton2


Even if it did, 90% of the IGWC (worst wrestling community) would still hate on Reigns/Orton and praise Rollins/Ambrose.

What are the rules to a flag match? I don't remember, plus I'm a little pissed that Swagger v. Rusev wasn't something else like a Submission match or even one with no stipulation.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I believe both flags (US and Russia in this case) are on opposite poles in the ring, first guy to retrieve his flag wins.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Are we going to get a clean finish to Cena/Lesnar, tonight, though? With the iffy gimmick attached to Ambrose/Rollins, and other matches feeling like pit stops rather than feud enders, I can see this going into a last man standing at NoC to boost possible network resubscriptions. Cena with a DQ win?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> When you said Shawn would barely make it into a top five for 1996, did you mean worldwide? Because once you say that, you open up the discussion to some incredible years for talents. TOO COLD SCORPIO.


Strictly WWF related for my comment. Only to mention how I felt Shawn wasn't alone at the top of the company as there was enough other great talents around him.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Got an exam coming up next morning so I can't catch SummerSlam live.  Will definitely try my best to avoid spoilers for tomorrow.

Speaking of Shawn Michaels, this promo he's cutting the night after the screwjob is fucking awful. He sounds completely drugged and botched one of the lines completely. He keeps referring to himself in third person but it's like a poor imitation of The Rock. Ken Shamrock is no better here.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Is that the promo where Ken Shamrock goes in on Chyna? That one was hilarious because of how ridiculous Shamrock sounded :lol. You might as well skip through RAW and the upcoming PPV. Except for Austin/Rock stuff.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah, lol. HBK says "The WWF is not big enough for the Heartbreak Kid and Shawn Michaels". His delivery drags so much in this promo that he makes 2011 Randy Orton sound like The Rock. And Shamrock definitely sounds ridiculous. Then he ends it by saying he's going to put his fist through Shawn's "sexy chest". :lol To top it off, Sgt. Slaughter says "The World Federation Championship". Just a mess of a segment that is entertaining for different reasons.

I'm pretty much skipping through everything except DX, NOD/Rock and Austin segments. Speaking of the latter two, Rock just came out to confront Austin. :mark:

Rock is still finding himself on the mic. Can't wait until WM14 when these two start taking over the shows. :lmao @ Austin mocking Rock's haircut.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I've come in here because the whole fucking section is filled with Reigns threads. Can't something be done about this.

Save me.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

All Roman Reigns fangirling threads have become just as bad as the recent Austin hate, if not worse tbh. Maybe it's not Reigns fangirling, it's Reigns himself behind those threads 8*D.

Imagine if Orton/Reigns tonight is actually a MOTYC. Fangirls would make a million threads about "how great of a wrestler Roman is" :lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hopefully they give King Randal his due as well since he is obviously set to carry this. rton2

All these Reings (pun intended) threads are making me insane. Where are you CAL? Bring some peace to this section.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ha, you wish. If anything, they'll say Reigns carried Orton as they watch a gif of Reigns Spearing Randall...

...holding something else at the same time perhaps. :tommy 

GODDAMMIT ANDREW YOU HAVE A GIRLFRIEND, WHY DO YOU SAY SHIT LIKE THAT ON THE INTERNET


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rah said:


> Are we going to get a clean finish to Cena/Lesnar, tonight, though? With the iffy gimmick attached to Ambrose/Rollins, and other matches feeling like pit stops rather than feud enders, I can see this going into a last man standing at NoC to boost possible network resubscriptions. Cena with a DQ win?


No way they'd be dumb enough to run a dq finish at the 2nd biggest show of the year in the main event, UNLESS it resulted in a major beatdown and a cash-in by Rollins. I'm going full on mark tonight and rooting against Cena. Looking forward to this show so much. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Win/win scenario for me like usual. I just want a memorable match. It's Cena & Brock. I'm pretty sure I'll get what I want.

Sleeping too much on Swagger vs Rusev III b/c I'm still not sure how the gimmick is going to be worked. Thanks, WWE.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Just got to Summerslam! :hb


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I was about to ask atm too. :hb


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

ATF said:


> All Roman Reigns fangirling threads have become just as bad as the recent Austin hate, if not worse tbh. Maybe it's not Reigns fangirling, it's Reigns himself behind those threads 8*D.
> 
> Imagine if Orton/Reigns tonight is actually a MOTYC. Fangirls would make a million threads about "how great of a wrestler Roman is" :lol.


The Austin hate :lmao

Thankfully we don't have to worry about the latter.  I'm feeling a MOTYC coming from Lesnar/Cena.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm still anticipating that Miz/Ziggler will surprise folks and that Ambrose and Rollins will have MOTN. ATF somehow made Ambrose/Rollins look amazing.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> When you said Shawn would barely make it into a top five for 1996, did you mean worldwide? Because once you say that, you open up the discussion to some incredible years for talents. TOO COLD SCORPIO.


Worldwide Shawn might not be top 25 for 1996. I think he'd still be my #1 for US, though. If not top 3. Crazy good year, the 96 yearbook is still my favourite wrestling comp I've ever watched.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I really can't decide what annoys me more, people hating on Austin or people who take reports from dirtsheets and treat them like the gospel. Ugh. I never thought I'd live to see the day people forgot how amazing Steve Austin was and what he did for wrestling, and now that I have, I wish I hadn't.

No matter, I've saved this thread into my bookmarks so now I don't even have to be tempted by the thread titles in the General Section.

Just about 90 minutes until SS kicks off, and I'm beyond excited. Some how, some way, WWE has put together a card I'm genuinely excited about from top to bottom with Daniel Bryan injured and Punk retired. I wouldn't have thought that was possible 6 months ago. Although it's crazy to think how stacked it would be if Hunter, Bryan, Batista and Punk were all involved as well.

Watching Finlay/Mysterio 3/24/06 now :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm positive I would have said this before 700 times, but idiots like to take whatever a wrestler said in an interview or podcast and let that form their opinion on the wrestler. I mean, OK, all right, you don't like the wrestler because he seems like a big head or whatever, but they let it actually sway their opinion. Bret Hart - "HHH isn't really good" Idiot - "Bret Hart was a nobody!!!!" Not convinced half of the people bashing Austin have watched more than one hour of Austin. They like to sound smart and like to have their opinion heard. Yet only type one sentence saying something like "hahaha who is austin 2 talk he was not gud"


Wait, SummerSlam is today? :lmao I keep up with wrestling, hyuck. Guess there goes my plan to make the thread talk about Bobby Eaton.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I'm still anticipating that Miz/Ziggler will surprise folks and that Ambrose and Rollins will have MOTN. ATF somehow made Ambrose/Rollins look amazing.


Eh I hope so, Miz will probably retain. Outside of the main event everything else is a wild card


----------



## Rugrat (Jun 30, 2013)

NAITCH said:


> Eh I hope so, Miz will probably retain. Outside of the main event everything else is a wild card


It's never a guarantee Cena will lose. I do agree that it would appear that way however.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I'm positive I would have said this before 700 times, but idiots like to take whatever a wrestler said in an interview or podcast and let that form their opinion on the wrestler. I mean, OK, all right, you don't like the wrestler because he seems like a big head or whatever, but they let it actually sway their opinion. Bret Hart - "HHH isn't really good" Idiot - "Bret Hart was a nobody!!!!" Not convinced half of the people bashing Austin have watched more than one hour of Austin. They like to sound smart and like to have their opinion heard. Yet only type one sentence saying something like "hahaha who is austin 2 talk he was not gud"
> 
> 
> Wait, SummerSlam is today? :lmao I keep up with wrestling, hyuck. Guess there goes my plan to make the thread talk about Bobby Eaton.


It's pretty obvious, being a contrarian has become the cool thing to do these days. It's just not "in" to think Steve Austin and Bret Hart were great. Some how people have genuinely convinced themselves that Steve was a one trick pony with his foul mouthed, flip the world the bird rhetoric, and Bret Hart was boring. Doesn't matter that there is a veritable mountain of evidence that Steve and Bret were 2 of the best to ever do it in the States, it's much more hip to think Hogan was some how a god in the wrestling ring. The same thing happened with Bryan. When he was getting screwed over, he was everyone's current favorite. Once he reached the mountain top and suffered a fluke injury, he's and over pushed troll with no charisma and a watered down move set.

To be honest, I wouldn't really give a shit that people have stupid opinions if they weren't so insufferably obnoxious about the whole thing. I got no problem at all when someone like Chismo claims Hogan vs Andre was a better match than Bret vs Austin, because he's not obnoxious about it and doesn't try and say I'm wrong for thinking otherwise. It's just the general attitude of most people seems to be to only focus on the negatives of wrestlers, and if there aren't any negatives well then just fabricate the negatives and shove them down everyone else's throat until they think otherwise. 

With that said I'll shut up and go back to my Finlay/Rey matches, I've made it through the 3/24/06 match and the one they had the week before ONS 2006 that has Sabu interfering, now I'm on to the final one they had in September. Such a sweet mesh of unique styles, I'm thoroughly enjoying these bouts.

Didn't they also have a Stretcher match sometime in 2007? How was that?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ZIGGLER WINS! Hell yes my night is already a success, fuck didn't expect that but I'm thoroughly happy with that result.

In a related note, that's the most I've enjoyed a Miz match in a LONG time, I'm talking years, possibly back to 2011. Heck of a sprint, they ripped it up. Looks like my brother Funnyfaces was right about them killing it.

Final Rating: ***1/2 (extra 1/4* because of ZIGGLER WINNING :mark


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

SO FUCKING HAPPY RIGHT NOW! ZIGGLER!!!!


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Very good opener. Loved the opening psychology and that HBK homage. That finish was MONEY as well.3 and a half as well for me.Set that bar high. EDIT: Well by Divas standards that was a pretty decent match with intensity. Id say we are 2 for 2 even though that was quick. In the realm of this feud, I dont mind the title exchange


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Good start

Miz-Ziggler ***1/4
AJ-Paige ***


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Two matches and two title changes. Whatttt!?

Ziggler :mark:

Paige :mark:

The divas match was way better than their match last month IMO.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Two for two on title changes! I love it! Another good match too.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Indeed, AJ/Paige was solid, def not your standard "piss break" Divas match stuff. 

Ziggler/Miz: ***1/2
AJ/Paige: ***

Oh yea, DOLPH ZIGGLER JUST WON THE IC TITLE ON THE SECOND BIGGEST SHOW OF THE YEAR! Woohoo! So happy for Dolph, it's been a long year for him but it looks like he's finally getting another chance to once again prove why he deserves regular TV time and a solid mid card feud.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

They definitely kept that Divas match shorter because of last months debacle. *3/4 for that. Nothing special and no direction.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Wow, guys. Rusev just put on an absolutely INCREDIBLE performance. Great match. Shocked me.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

So how exactly was that a flag match? Lol that was just a standard match where the guys carried flags out. Not complaining because "On a Pole" matches usually suck the big one but still. False advertising and all that. Match was good, nothing spectacular or anything but certainly not bad. Rusev sold the ankle really well, and if Swagger had to lose, this was the way to do it. I really wish they were given atleast 5 more minutes, as it seemed as soon as they really got their groove, it was over. Oh well.

All in all, pretty decent match.

Swagger/Rusev: ***


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ZIGGLER :krillin


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Decent match, liked the finish. Rusev has a big future ahead of him.

**3/4


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Rusev is amazing. I've become such a big fan of his over the months.

**1/2 or **3/4 from me.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

That was awesome. 

They fucking made a lumberjack match great.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Well they did it, they made a lumberjack match great.

****1/2.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Ambrose/Rollins was fucking excellent. For that gimmick, and the amount of time they had, I don't see how they could have had a better match. Overbooking done right, that was just a blast to watch. The right guy won, as it's not time for Ambrose to get his big win yet, this feud still has way too much steam, they need to try and hold the blowoff till Hell in a Cell. 

I'm probably overrating this, but fuck it, I loved it: **** for Ambrose/Rollins.

Well done boys, you just proved without a shadow of a doubt that you're destined to be main event guys for years to come. Anyone that can make a lumberjack match that GREAT in this day and age deserves all the praise in the world. That's the 2nd best Lumberjack match I've ever seen.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

That was just what the crowd needed after that technical Rusev/Swagger match. A shot of pure crazy fun. This ppv is 4 for 4 my dudes. Good shit.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Ambrose/Rollins was fucking excellent. For that gimmick, and the amount of time they had, I don't see how they could have had a better match. Overbooking done right, that was just a blast to watch. The right guy won, as it's not time for Ambrose to get his big win yet, this feud still has way too much steam, they need to try and hold the blowoff till Hell in a Cell.
> 
> I'm probably overrating this, but fuck it, I loved it: **** for Ambrose/Rollins.
> 
> Well done boys, you just proved without a shadow of a doubt that you're destined to be main event guys for years to come. Anyone that can make a lumberjack match that GREAT in this day and age deserves all the praise in the world. That's the 2nd best Lumberjack match I've ever seen.


**** is underrating it if anything IMO, form start to finish everything about the entire match was amazing.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

You know what I loved? 

The "I love you, brother" and kiss before Ambrose stole Rollins' curb stomp. I guarantee that's how Ambrose will win the blowoff. Just fantastic stuff.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

wtf at even **** for that match much less ****1/2. Dean asks for a lumberjack match so....he can attack all of them? Yeah, makes sense. Overbooked clusterfuck. Can't wait until they face off in HiaC. ***1/2 for that and I feel it's generous.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

StuckInHell4-Life said:


> wtf at even **** for that match much less ****1/2. Dean asks for a lumberjack match so....he can attack all of them? Yeah, makes sense. Overbooked clusterfuck. Can't wait until they face off in HiaC. ***1/2 for that and I feel it's generous.


His character is a lunatic, it makes perfect sense for him to attack them if he feels they are in his way.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

RatedR10 said:


> You know what I loved?
> 
> The "I love you, brother" and kiss before Ambrose stole Rollins' curb stomp. I guarantee that's how Ambrose will win the blowoff. Just fantastic stuff.


Glad you mentioned that. That was simply beautiful, a perfect touch that really hit home how personal this feud is. The announcers were too busy yacking about whatever and didn't pick it up, but I thought that was a crucial storytelling point and also helps with portraying Ambrose as the good guy, if it wasn't already obvious. For Ambrose to stay effective as a baby face, he needs to show those human moments in his matches. He can't be flat out crazy 100% of the time, that will get old quick. Wonderful, wonderful touch to the match.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Ryan193 said:


> His character is a lunatic, it makes perfect sense for him to attack them if he feels they are in his way.


I don't think so. Just makes it retarded that he didn't ask for a cage match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rusev vs. Swagger was better than the lumberjack match but I enjoyed the hell out of both either way. Hopefully the Jericho/Wyatt program is over with now.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Obviously Mania is up there and Brian/Bray was the better match because Dbry pulled out so many stops but that has got to be one if not THE best individual effort of Bray Wyatt and Jericho bringing that selling man. Sure, there were some flaws in that but still solid and man that visual of Jericho going for the Lionsault and Bray spider walking up and then saying "you cannot hurt me Chris I am already dead! cementing that implied demon possession while Chris cowers to the corner. Man, that has got to be one of the best visuals inside of a match in recent memory.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

StuckInHell4-Life said:


> I don't think so. Just makes it retarded that he didn't ask for a cage match.


They will probably have a Cell match, which makes a Cage match overkill. I thought the lumberjack gimmick, while not ideal, made atleast a modicum of sense from a storyline perspective. Further, Dean asking for a lumberjack match and then fighting the lumberjacks makes sense. It wouldn't suit Deans character to think everything through, he acts irrationally, and it wouldn't look good for him to just let other wrestlers put their hands on him and toss him back into the ring. Wouldn't suit his character, not one bit.

It all checks out to me, sorry that it some how kept you from enjoying what I thought was an all around GREAT match. It was certainly very exciting and allows the story to continue.

AND HOLY SHIT STEPH LOOKS FUCKING FINE. I guaruntee Cal is over in England just FAPing away right now, and I don't blame him. That's one of the hottest moms ever.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Ambrose/Rollins has to end in a HIAC match. A feud with this much hate between the two, with all the brawling and surprise attacks and how personal it's gotten, should warrant a HIAC match, a match intended to end the most violent and personal feuds. When that happens, no doubt Ambrose and Rollins will steal the show.

I agree with the sentiments of the Summerslam match being really fun to watch and it's a good way to advance the feud. Definitely my favorite feud going on in the WWE today.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

RatedR10 said:


> You know what I loved?
> 
> The "I love you, brother" and kiss before Ambrose stole Rollins' curb stomp. I guarantee that's how Ambrose will win the blowoff. Just fantastic stuff.


That will be the highlight of the night, imo. 

Ambrose v. Rollins was better than I expected, it was just plain awesome sauce. I'm giving it a **** 1/4. Swagger v. Rusev was a *** for me, it was nothing special but it was good.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I just can't get over that "I love you, brother" before the curb stomp. 

That finish in a HIAC to end the feud. :banderas


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I called that Nikki turn!!! To my dad and girlfriend, but still!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I've enjoyed all the matches on Summeslam so far. Orton/ Reigns better not ruin that...


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Jericho-Wyatt was meh. **1/2

Steph-Brie was good for what it was. **3/4.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Steph/Brie gets a star just for how Stephanie was looking :lenny. Match wasn't horrible either. *** for what it was.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Ratings would probably be something like:

IC Title- ***1/2
Divas Title- ***
Rusev/Swagger- ***
Ambrose/Rollins- ***1/2
Jericho/Wyatt- ***1/4
Steph/Brie- **1/2


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Ratings so far:

Ziggler/Miz: ***1/2
Paige/AJ: ***
Rusev/Swagger: ***
Ambrose/Rollins: ****
Jericho/Wyatt: ***1/4
Brie/Steph: ***

Hell of a show so far, 2 matches left :mark:


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Miz-Ziggler ***1/4
AJ-Paige ***
Swagger-Rusev **3/4
Ambrose-Rollins ****1/2
Jericho-Wyatt **1/2
Steph-Brie **3/4


----------



## RATED R RULES (May 27, 2007)

The word for this show is consistent! Nothing I'd skip at all. Top it off with a Cena/Lesnar classic and it's a great show


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

One good spot doesn't make a match good. That was not good.

I wish Orton's sick RKO ended it.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Orton/Reigns wasn't totally terrible. Worst match of the show so far, but Orton carried Reigns' to Reigns second best match so far. ** for it.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Bless Randy for trying to carry Reigns to something decent and he tried but damn Reigns gasses so damn fast and telegraphs so much Im not sure if anyone outside the world class caliber could give this current form of Reigns a good match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Where's those doubters at now? Pretty great match in my eyes.

Oh wait, never mind you guys are already here. Match was not bad at all.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Powerslam and RKO were good, the rest was bad. *1/2.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Oh how nice it will be, all the Reigns haters are required to STFU for atleast another month. That was one hell of a match. Bravo, Randy, that was truly Orton at his modern day "apex". Reigns did everything you could ask, and Orton really really helped him along.

Fuck, what a great Summerslam.

***3/4 for Orton/Reigns.

Edit- wow you guys are unbelievable. That match was awesome how could you not like that? The crowd was 100% locked in for the duration and HOT for the finish.


----------



## Victarion (Sep 8, 2007)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Where's those doubters at now? Pretty great match in my eyes.


Probably still doubting, a couple of exciting spots at the end but....meh. "okay" match, I guess. Thought it was pretty boring, tbh. Hoping the main event is good, this has been a good show so far I think.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

There was literally nothing to it other than the powerslam and RKO.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Oh how nice it will be, all the Reigns haters are required to STFU for atleast another month. That was one hell of a match. Bravo, Randy, that was truly Orton at his modern day "apex". Reigns did everything you could ask, and Orton really really helped him along.
> 
> Fuck, what a great Summerslam.
> 
> ...


Exactly, thank you. If you go into a match already thinking you hate it, you're gonna hate it. There was nothing wrong with this. It was in fact pretty damn exciting. 

How you can you guys rate a match where two guys go out and run around the arena and jump on people for 10 minutes so highly then say this perfectly fine formulaic match with a super hot finishing stretch was bad? It makes no sense and feels like blind hate.


----------



## FoundLacking (Mar 29, 2014)

Oh shit, Cena has a new shirt. Lesnar's fucked.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Exactly, thank you. If you go into a match already thinking you hate it, you're gonna hate it. There was nothing wrong with this. It was in fact pretty damn exciting.
> 
> How you can you guys rate a match where two guys go out and run around the arena and jump on people for 10 minutes so highly then say this perfectly fine formulaic match with a super hot finishing stretch was bad? It makes no sense and feels like blind hate.


Ambrose-Rollins had me invested from start to finish and was extremely entertaining, I found Orton-Reigns extremely boring outwith two spots.

Ah well different strokes for different blokes.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Eh it was just okay I guess. Nothing memorable but not bad. *** for an inspired Orton performance.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

IT HAPPENED


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

***1\2 for Reigns\Orton. Great match


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Wow. That was interesting. I don't even know how to rate that. A match consisting of a few take downs + punches, an AA, two F5's, and about 16 German suplexes. And that's it. I'm kind of speechless. I didn't think WWE would have the balls to put Lesnar over that strongly.

Oh well, atleast we have a new champ! Lesnar is the man.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

***** as far as squash matches go. In the words of JBL during this match, "Jesus Christ". Who the hell can beat him after that performance? I loved every second of it.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Wait, people actually thought Orton/Reigns was great? I envy you folks...

... And Lesnar/Cena... wow. No idea what to think.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

***** in my eyes for now. It was perfect. It happened just as I envisioned.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

That was great. Probably go ****1/2 or ****3/4. Will need a rewatch tomorrow.

Great show overall.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Wait, people actually thought Orton/Reigns was great? I envy you folks...
> 
> ... And Lesnar/Cena... wow. No idea what to think.


My thoughts exactly. Jesus, WWE just had Cena get positively SQUASHED in the main event of the second biggest PPV of the year. Anything is possible I guess.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I enjoyed the hell out of Lesnar/Cena. Brock looked like a complete MONSTER and I liked how no matter how much Cena tried to get a quick victory, Lesnar just pummeled him into oblivion. An awesome main event to cap off a pretty damn good show.

16 GERMAN SUPLEXES :wall


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Best squash match ever. Pure fucking domination.


----------



## Victarion (Sep 8, 2007)

Strange match. Unique, certainly. I think I liked it. Didn't expect it to be so one sided, kinda...worked, though.

(As for orton/reigns, it's nothing to do with me wanting to hate it - I was hopeful...just thought it was an okay/below average match, unfortunately. If you found it exciting, yay, glad you found enjoyment? I thought it was dull!)


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

PURE DOMINATION! God what a fucking great moment. Full review of Summerslam coming soon.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

I wouldn't put it over ****, that's for sure. It was great because it was Cena and it was great booking but that doesn't make it over ****. Probably like ***1/2 or somewhere there about.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Who would believe in 2011 that Cena would ever be squashed for the title, to Lesnar no less? NO ONE


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Final Ratings for SS 2014:

Ziggler/Miz: ***1/2
Paige/AJ: ***
Swagger/Rusev: ***
Ambrose/Rollins: **** (MOTN)
Jericho/Wyatt: ***1/4
Orton/Reigns: ***3/4
Cena/Lesnar: **** (GOAT squash match)

Most consistent show WWE has put on in a LONG, LONG, time. Struggling now to even think of the last time a show had 7 matches that were all good and imminently watchable.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Final Ratings for SS 2014:
> 
> Ziggler/Miz: ***1/2
> Paige/AJ: ***
> ...


Summerslam has become THE PPV to watch.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I am lost for anything to type about that main event. We often refer to Cena as Superman well he just met his damn doomsday right there. Brock looked like not a million bucks but a billion bucks and put on once again a hell of a showman's performance. Actually, that was such an ass whoopin that there is no way I could buy Reigns or hell damn near anyone beating Lesnar quite frankly again. In terms of long term accomplishment for building to Reigns/Lesnar that was 5 stars but on individual merit that wasn't a whole lot and acted as a what if for if Vader decided to fully unleash on Misawa in their 99/00 encounters. I dont have anymore comment as I need to fully process what just happened. All i firmly know right now is that THE LEGION OF LESNAR HAS BEGUN!


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Ratings:

RVD/Cesaro: **3/4
Ziggler/Miz: ***1/4
Paige/AJ: **1/2
Rusev/Swagger: **3/4
Rollins/Ambrose: ****
Jericho/Wyatt: ***1/4
McMahon/Brie: **1/4
Reigns/Orton: **1/4
Lesnar/Cena: ****1/4


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

I can just imagine the talk leading up to the match. Vince: "well John, your time is up, the champ is Brock...Oh yeah, we're going to have him beat the shit out of you for 20 minutes". John: "....".


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

:brock

Please take a break now Cena.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

OK, I calmed down. **** 1/2. The Extreme Rules match was better, but this was still great. Absolutely loved the PPV.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Totally enjoyed the main event, even though there was nothing to it. Sixteen suplexes with Brock trolling in between. Cena did what he could, but his selling was quite good. Brock sitting up and making Taker after that Attitude Adjustment was great. Not quite as much selling from Cena as the ER match, but this match was a bit different, in terms of the striking from Brock. 

Also, Steph/Brie was amazing. Steph the confirmed wrestling goddess.


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

It was an all around very good show

Miz/Dolph ***1/4
Paige/AJ **1/2
Rusev/Swagger **3/4
Ambrose/Rollins ***1/2
Jericho/Wyatt ***1/4
Brie/Steph ***
Reigns/Orton ***1/2+
Brock/Cena ***

Everything was decent to good and very watchable


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Helmsley said:


> Totally enjoyed the main event, even though there was nothing to it. Sixteen suplexes with Brock trolling in between. Cena did what he could, but his selling was quite good. Brock sitting up and making Taker after that Attitude Adjustment was great. Not quite as much selling from Cena as the ER match, but this match was a bit different, *in terms of the striking from Brock.*
> 
> Also, Steph/Brie was amazing. Steph the confirmed wrestling goddess.


Yeah, no elbows to slice the fucker open. I wanted elbows but I'm happy with the way things turned out. 

On a random note: It's kind of silly the one time Cena made the stf look legit, he just had it broken and was subsequently destroyed.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

StuckInHell4-Life said:


> Yeah, no elbows to slice the fucker open. I wanted elbows but I'm happy with the way things turned out.
> 
> *On a random note: It's kind of silly the one time Cena made the stf look legit, he just had it broken and was subsequently destroyed.*


That's actually how he used to do it around its debut, but he was told to lighten up.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Will write my full thoughts and stuff later

But Ziggler/Miz mark: DOLPH), Wyatt/Jericho, Rusev/Swagger, and Cena/Brock all pretty good - phenomenal 2nd MOTY IMO. Wyatt/Jericho was sensational and Rusev man, selling like a champ career performance so far



If anyone could find me a gif of Ziggler's super kick in sig size would be great


----------



## RATED-RKO1991 (Dec 23, 2006)

*Summerslam '14 Ratings*
RVD/Cesaro **1/2(only caught the last 5-8 minutes)
Miz/Ziggler ***
Paige/AJ ** 
Rusev/Swagger ***1/2
Rollins/Ambrose ****(MOTN)
Jericho/Wyatt ***
Brie/Steph **1/2
Reigns/Orton ***
Lesnar/Cena ****


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Summerslam 2014

**Intercontinental Championship
*The Miz (c) vs. Dolph Ziggler - ***

*Divas Championship
*AJ Lee (c) vs. Paige - ** 1/2

*Flag Match
*Rusev vs. Jack Swagger - *** 3/4

*Lumberjack Match
*Dean Ambrose vs. Seth Rollins - *** 1/2

Chris Jericho vs. Bray Wyatt - ** 1/2

Stephanie McMahon vs. Brie Bella - ** 1/2

Randy Orton vs. Roman Reigns - *** 3/4

*WWE World Heavyweight Championship
*John Cena (c) vs. Brock Lesnar - **** 1/4


- Miz vs. Dolph was totally fun. Ziggler punching Miz in the face and then KICKING him in the face was wonderful. Miz suckering him to the outside just to kick the ropes and lock in the figure-4 was a super swell touch. Best part though? The fame-asser right into the skullcrushing finale. Desperation at its best and something I'd never seen before. Great nearfall too. Ziggler won as well, so ya know: :mark:

- Divas Title match was perfect for its position on the card. Paige was a bitch and fits into her role perfectly, but AJ got sick of her shit and tried to take it to her. That finish was so nice. The Paige turner into the black widow then into that SICK ddt. Liked this. (Y)

- Mannn, you guys are sleepin on Rusev/Swagger. Did you see the way Rusev sold that ankle injury? Like seriously, did you? Absolutely fantastic. A great, great match built around two injuries that were both exposed throughout the match. Two big brutes putting it all on the line for the pride of their countries and one man refusing to quit before passing out. How about the crowd reactions to those submissions too? Damn. This was so awesome. Interested to hear *Cody's *thoughts on this one seeing how much he liked the last match.

- I think everyone has already expressed how much fun Ambrose/Rollins was. From a wrestling perspective there isn't much to see, but from an entertainment perspective it's top notch. how about Ambrose's reaction after that curb stomp too? Guy was almost in tears. Really good stuff.

- Jericho vs. Wyatt still didn't do much for me. Jericho kept saying in all his promos, "let's get crazy Wyatt!" Well did he get crazy? No. They totally botched the codebreaker nearfall after Wyatt proclaimed he was already dead too. These two haven't shown much chemistry this year imo. Match had its moments but nothing special.

- Steph vs. Brie was totally fine for what it was. Not much else to say other than I totally called that Nikki turn.

- I wanna watch Orton/Reigns again sometime to see if I still like it as much, but I'll tell ya what, it was pretty damn good the first time. The match went down just as I envisioned, Orton controlled the bulk and Reigns made some small comebacks along the way. These are the type of matches I truly enjoy on the upper midcard. 15-20 minutes, totally formulaic, and a hot finishing stretch. Reigns kicking out of the RKO was legitimately shocking to me. I thought it was over. The spear Reigns hit for the win looked really really good too (which they usually just look average). Looked like he hit him in the chest. I liked Orton going crazy on the outside, staying in control for a while, the samoan drop from the top rope, and the entire finishing stretch was a blast. Oh and that early superplex too, that looked gorgeous. I wanna hear *Choke2Death*'s thoughts on this one. Great match. :dance

- Repost from the MOTYC thread:

*WWE World Heavyweight Championship
*John Cena (c) vs. Brock Lesnar (_WWE Summerslam_)

How in the hell can we get a match compiled of NOTHING but german suplexes that ends up being a MOTYC. Because it's BROOOOCK LESNAR the Conqueror! God this was great. Immediately from the opening Cena makes the stupid mistake of charging Lesnar and gets hit with an F5 that made me jump out of my seat. You knew Cena never truly stood a chance after seeing that. Lesnar follows up with german suplex after german suplex after german suplex. Cena tries to fight back and hits an AA. 2 count, bitch. Lesnar sits up and MOCKS THE FUCKING UNDERTAKER!? Oh my god I love this man. That smile, that laugh. Cena is confused and beaten half to death. Paul Heyman: "Ring the bell or he's gonna kill him!" Magical. More german suplexes. Brock wants Cena to quit or have the ref stop the match. Doesn't happen. Cena tries for a fucking STFU!? Are you kidding me!? Lesnar rolls through and punches the shit out of him. He's done playing around. Picks him back up for another F5. Wins this thing clean as all fuck. Wow.

This is without a doubt the greatest squash match I've ever seen. Lesnar trained for this moment for two years after that loss to Cena in 2012. He was never going to lose, never in any danger. This entire thing was so surreal. Why didn't we just listen to Heyman like last time? This man beats everything put in front of him. Cena has never been dominated like this before, and THAT'S why this match was so great. It's unlike anything we've ever seen, JUST LIKE the last time these two faced off. The entire match was nothing but these two throwing bombs at each other and it was nearly perfect for what it was trying to accomplish. Probably now jumps out to #2 on my list behind Shield/Wyatts... for now. ​


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

lol I praised Rusev's selling on another forum and had someone tell me he did a bad job of selling. fpalm Rusev did a fantastic job of selling and it's why I'm such a huge fan of his. Not only can he move around well for a guy with his mass, but god damn this guy can fucking sell. And you already know he's going to be selling it tomorrow night, and probably Main Event/Smackdown tapings as well because that's what he did last month too. Rusev is awesome.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Initial ratings for the matches I watched in full

Paige/AJ ~ **** // damn good for the time it got, I'm really eager to see them have a 10-15 minute match 

Ambrose/Rollins ~ ****1/4* // like the two ladies above, I can't wait to see them really cut loose but this was the shit as far as lumberjack matches go :lol fucking AMBROSE looks like a bigger and bigger star with every show

Jericho/Wyatt ~ ***3/4* // man that spider walk spot was LEGENDARY, these two seem to kind of lack chemistry but it was still enjoyable 

Brie/Steph ~ ***1/2* // god damn did this surpass my expectations, the full time divas should be embarrassed that Steph is a better worker than 90% of them

Cena/Lesnar ~ ***3/4* // fuck me, this was just as surreal and almost as captivating as their ER match even though it kind of paled in terms of actual quality imo, I wish it had been more competitive and giving it ****+ is definitely a stretch in my eyes but it was a fucking awesome moment and probably the GOAT squash, fucking BORK :brock

This was the kind of show that was good in spite of not having any truly great matches imo, definitely doesn't measure up to last year's show and the two absolute masterpieces that made up the double main event but I really enjoyed it. (Y)


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

RatedR10 said:


> lol I praised Rusev's selling on another forum and had someone tell me he did a bad job of selling. fpalm Rusev did a fantastic job of selling and it's why I'm such a huge fan of his. Not only can he move around well for a guy with his mass, but god damn this guy can fucking sell. And you already know he's going to be selling it tomorrow night, and probably Main Event/Smackdown tapings as well because that's what he did last month too. Rusev is awesome.


Rusev's selling was godly. I thought he was legit hurt.

Watching Brock vs Cena again. I think this skyrockets to one of my favorites. I'd only give it like ***1/2 but jfc it's blissful.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I don't really know what to think of Brock vs. Cena. I mean I get the squash but I got german suplex fatigue pretty quick. Plus, I did want blood pretty bad.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

I just finished watching the main event and that really was something else. I didn't think they would reach the heights of the ER 2012 match. But while it wasn't as barbaric or maybe even not as high in quality, it certainly was just as unique and worth watching. It was amazing to see it all unfold and I was left with my jaw open. It was still brutal in a way and the systematic dismantling of John Cena (never thought I would be saying that), was amazing to watch.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

One thing I forgot to mention. Summerslam has probably just narrowly trumped WrestleMania as my PPV of the year.

Also don't wanna slight Swagger on his selling of the ribs. Got overshadowed by Rusev but his selling was pretty good too. (Y)



Lazyking said:


> I don't really know what to think of Brock vs. Cena. I mean I get the squash but I got german suplex fatigue pretty quick. Plus, I did want blood pretty bad.


I heard Triplemania gave you enough of that.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Am I the only one who thinks this is the end of Cena as the top guy? He just got squashed. There is no coming back to the same level from that beating.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

RATINGS/Thoughts on each match:

Miz/Ziggler ***1/2

-Great opener and one of Miz's best matches. Very nice nearfalls with the superkick and skull crushing finale. I really thought Miz had Dolph there. It's great to see Dolph have gold again, and even if it's not the WWE/World Heavyweight Championship, it's still the 2nd biggest title in the company right now. Pace was great, Miz trying to avoid getting hit in the face was played up nicely, and all in all was better than I thought it would be.

Paige/AJ- ***

-Good divas title match here with a pretty abrupt... albeit sick DDT ending. Not sure I'm on board with Paige having the title again so soon, but we'll see where it goes. 

Rusev/Swagger ***1/4

-Decided to bump this up from what I initially had it at because the more I thought about it, the more I realized how good this match really was, maybe even great. I'll see how it holds up on re-watch, but I LOVED Rusev's selling, and the ending kept Swagger looking good. My issue is that it was idiotic to deem it a flag match, not set any rules, and then it ends up being just another regular match. Still, a very good showing by the two of them.

Rollins/Ambrose ***1/2

-Wow, a great lumberjack match... who would've thunk it? I like how the lumberjacks were actually used very well, Dean/Rollins went at it a bit and produced something great... but what makes it even better is there's so much more they can do. They still haven't had a proper match yet in the WWE (not counting NXT/FCW or whatever obviously), so there's a lot more for them to do in there next match to take it up to that next level. I'm actually glad now they went with this stip, because it kept them from going all out and peaking the feud way too early. Rollins winning was a good choice as now people will be clamoring even more for Ambrose to finally get his win.

Wyatt/Jericho ***1/4

-Good bout here. Wyatt finally wins a PPV match clean again, and it was predictable, but still good. Good pace throughout the match, some cool moments and then the ending being a repeat of Wyatt's win over Bryan was cool as well. Enjoyable match.

Brie/Steph **1/2

-Steph... damn, she did about a million times better than I thought she would. Brie did her part, the ending is what it was, but overall I thought everything clicked and Steph coming out with the win to move to Brie/Nikki was probably a good choice. Leaves Steph to get her comeuppance at a later time, hopefully from someone better than Brie. 

Orton/Reigns **

-Orton tried... he really really tried. We'll see how it holds up on a re-watch, but to this point I'd call it Reigns' second best match. Wasn't completely horrible, and good for a Reigns' match, although really it was a one-man show. I really do applaud Randy's efforts here, that's a big part of the rating. The other bit are spear into the scoop/power/whatever slam it is and the RKO OUTTANOWHERE! Reigns wins, predictable, but... well... you'd be kidding yourself if you thought it was gonna go any other way.

Lesnar/Cena ****

-I'll settle at **** for right now. Definitely not as good as the ER match, despite the more favorable ending. But still, this was awesome. Lesnar absolutely destroys Cena, makes him his bitch. This was a glorified squash match. The german suplexes did get to be a bit much, but at the same time it got to the point where every single one felt like it was going to be the death of Cena. I remember one in particular where it looked like Cena landed right on the back of his head. I really hope Cena's alright and didn't get a concussion from any of them. That last gasp by Cena trying to get Lesnar to tap to the STF was cool, and it really seemed like a desperate move from Cena, but ultimately Lesnar was too much.

Now where do they go with Lesnar though? Honestly... who the fuck is gonna be able to go toe to toe with Lesnar after he not only ends the streak, but then absolutely destroys Cena? We've seen him demolish Henry and Big Show. I suppose Rusev would make some sense if he wasn't a heel... but he's a heel, and a foreign one at that and that wouldn't go well with Lesnar. Orton? Reigns? Bryan when he returns? All of that makes me lol. After what happened tonight, I just can't see anyone going toe to toe with Lesnar without watering down Lesnar immensely. I think for the purposes of story (and fan support) Bryan would make the most sense, but they'll have to get creative with how to realistically have him get offense on Lesnar and be able to beat him. And now that they've played the "Brock is 100%" card, it makes it even harder. We can at least assume that Brock was still like at 75% or whatever when he was fighting Punk if we're playing that game, but now seeing what he can do at 100%, Punk, Bryan, whoever just shouldn't be able to match up with Lesnar. 

I do hope WWE does think up some creative way to have Lesnar lose to someone, without completely watering him down. Seems like an impossible feat at this point, but I'll keep my fingers crossed.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Hennessey said:


> Am I the only one who thinks this is the end of Cena as the top guy? He just got squashed. There is no coming back to the same level from that beating.


I think it's a new transition period. WWE will probably hope Reigns gets there, and if he doesn't, they'll fall back on Daniel Bryan when he returns for Wrestlemania 31. 

Or, if I could dream/have it my way, they'd push Ambrose to that spot.

Ambrose, with his character, would probably laugh at anything Lesnar threw at him. And damn, that would make for a fantastic match/fight.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Hennessey said:


> Am I the only one who thinks this is the end of Cena as the top guy? He just got squashed. There is no coming back to the same level from that beating.


John Cena got squashed even worse by Khali.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

1. Miz vs Dolph - ***1\4
2. Paige vs AJ - **3\4
3. swagger vs Rusev - ***1\4
4. Dean vs Rollins - ****
5. Jericho vs Wyatt - ***1\2
6. Brie vs Stephanie - **1/2
7. Reigns vs Orton - ***1/2
8. Cena vs Lesnar - ********** (screw you Cena)


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Bryan being injured is a relief. I cannot imagine them (WWE) squandering a potential MOTD candidate to put Brock over so hard. Hopefully we get a real match out of them at WM.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> With that said I'll shut up and go back to my Finlay/Rey matches, I've made it through the 3/24/06 match and the one they had the week before ONS 2006 that has Sabu interfering, now I'm on to the final one they had in September. Such a sweet mesh of unique styles, I'm thoroughly enjoying these bouts.
> 
> Didn't they also have a Stretcher match sometime in 2007? How was that?


Stretcher match is Cyber Sunday 2007 I think. IMO the best Rey/Finlay was on SmackDown, 9/11/07.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Just got back from the show (I ate afterwards, so that's why I took so long )

Thoughts, without having watched too much of it back again:
- Solid opener with a great moment in Dolph winning
- AJ vs. Paige was one of the better divas matches this year
- The live crowd was pretty confused with the rules of the match for Swagger vs. Rusev, but I still thought it was good
- Ambrose vs. Rollins was AWESOME. I can't wait until they get a better stipulation so they can tear it up even more
- Jericho vs. Wyatt was better than Battleground, but still nothing great. These two don't really have much chemistry
- Brie vs. Stephanie was entertaining I guess 
- Reigns vs. Orton picked up big time in the last few minutes. Marked hard for that RKO OUTTA NOWHERE 
- Cena vs. Lesnar, much like ER12, was a unique match that's hard to rate on a normal scale, but BORK killed him :mark:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Miz/Ziggler - ***1/4
Paige/AJ - ***1/4 (I loved this despite it being kinda short)
Swagger/Rusev- ***1/2 (Got really into this one too.)
Ambrose/Rollins - ***3/4 (Fun as hell, way better than expected from the stipuation)
Jericho/Bray - ***1/4
Brie/Stephanie - **1/2
Reigns/Orton - **1/2
Cena/Lesnar- N/A

- Great storytelling tonight. Especially in the Swagger/Rusev, Ambrose/Rollins and Paige/AJ matches. Even Brie/Stephanie too. People were on point in the ring using their storylines.

- Orton/Reigns was really slow for me. One guy fell asleep at my house during it.

- So glad Ziggler won. Didn't expect it.

- Paige/AJ was awesome despite being a short match. Really think they could do wonders with their current characters in a longer match.

- I dug the hell out of Swagger/Rusev. Old school storyline but done really well.

- Lesnar/Cena is surreal to me. I've never seen a match like that before. Felt like that guy you play online in SVR that spams the german suplex. Don't know how I'd rate that one. Really interesting though.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Russev's selling was great until the end. His ankle was injured to the point where he couldn't apply the Camel Clutch (can't remember what he calls it). Then Swagger puts him in an ankle lock for a long time. Then Rusev applies the Camel Clutch with his bad leg. The only logical conclusion is that Swagger's ankle lock actually heels the ankle. 

But yeah the selling was fucking amazing up until that point.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

TaylorFitz said:


> Russev's selling was great until the end. His ankle was injured to the point where he couldn't apply the Camel Clutch (can't remember what he calls it). Then Swagger puts him in an ankle lock for a long time. Then Rusev applies the Camel Clutch with his bad leg. The only logical conclusion is that Swagger's ankle lock actually heels the ankle.
> 
> But yeah the selling was fucking amazing up until that point.


Or adrenaline. Adrenaline can temporarily block out the pain. He was right back to selling it afterwards, and his facial expressions while applying The Accolade were fantastic. It's not like he completely no-sold when he applied the finish, his facial expressions were a thing of beauty.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Rusev looked like he was gonna fucking cry while he had his finisher applied. I thought Rusev did a great job tonight.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah pay attention to Rusev's face when he applies the accolade. He's grimacing in pain so it's totally ok with me.

Watching Orton vs. Reigns again. Loved the way Reigns sold those Garvin stomps. "Ow god dammit!" :lol

Anyone else happen to notice that Cesaro lost again tonight? Poor guy. And Goldust getting involved in the lumberjack match with Kane could lead to something on RAW. Who knows?


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

That Goldust pop was pretty awesome.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

TaylorFitz said:


> Russev's selling was great until the end. His ankle was injured to the point where he couldn't apply the Camel Clutch (can't remember what he calls it). Then Swagger puts him in an ankle lock for a long time. Then Rusev applies the Camel Clutch with his bad leg. The only logical conclusion is that Swagger's ankle lock actually heels the ankle.
> 
> But yeah the selling was fucking amazing up until that point.


I definitely noticed that. Someone said adrenaline which would make sense. I really liked Rusev's selling though. You don't always get that from the newly pushed guys.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Everything felt solid to good, *** to ***1/2 range. Nothing was as shite as Kane vs. Wyatt last year, but nothing could touch Del Rio vs. Christian, let alone the two epic main events of last year. I really hope Reigns works out, because the more stars the merrier, but also because if Cesaro and Rollins are going to be held back from filling the in-ring void of Punk and D-Bry, it better be fucking worth it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Watched Cena and Lesnar again. The way that Cena keeps coming back like he's about to get the win like he always does makes Brock's dominance so much better. Every time Cena starts fighting back your mind shifts to the "oh boy, here it comes" mindset and Brock just kept sending you back. It's such a different match. I really really like it but I'm still having trouble rating it.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I would've had Rollins go out at the end of Brock/Cena and contemplate a cash-in, only to back away with fear. Only caught the Main Event, will watch everything else later. **** for it btw.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

RatedR10 said:


> I just can't get over that "I love you, brother" before the curb stomp.
> 
> That finish in a HIAC to end the feud. :banderas


I thought that he said "I loved you, brother" which made it all the more poignant. Especially with the angst on his face afterward.

Beautiful. I love when wrestlers add little touches that just put it over the top. Or as CactusJack refers to it, little moments that give you the chills, and make a match that much more special. 



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Where's those doubters at now? Pretty great match in my eyes.
> 
> Oh wait, never mind you guys are already here. Match was not bad at all.


LOL. I have posters who I always just look for, regardless of the subject. You're one of them. It whittles the nonsense down quicker. Reps. 

Just to sum things up: Summerslam was awesome. Every single match was worth a watch. Great show.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

So after what happened last night, will Brock still drop the belts to Cena at NOC I wonder.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Hell no. Brock is murdering whoever is next and you can take that to your bookie.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Fab Four said:


> So after what happened last night, will Brock still drop the belts to Cena at NOC I wonder.


If Cena is the one to win it back from Brock, I think it'd be at Mania.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Brye said:


> Watched Cena and Lesnar again. The way that Cena keeps coming back like he's about to get the win like he always does makes Brock's dominance so much better. Every time Cena starts fighting back your mind shifts to the "oh boy, here it comes" mindset and Brock just kept sending you back. It's such a different match. I really really like it but I'm still having trouble rating it.



Something similar in terms of dominance against an established heroic dominance is Shield vs. Sheamus/Ryback/Cena.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

lol @ people who call Brock/Cena ER a squash.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cena/Lesnar :mark:

that is all (for now, full SummerSlam thoughts tomorrow)


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

*SummerSlam 2014*
RVD/Cesaro: ****
Miz/Ziggler: ***3/4*
Paige/AJ: ***1/4*, the early bump was really well timed to get the crowd invested and from there they kept pace
Rusev/Swagger: ***3/4*, Rusev's selling as great
Rollins/Ambrose: ****1/2*, superb
Jericho/Wyatt: ****, held a rather boring tone for most of the match
Brie/Steph: ***1/4*, omg Steph
Reigns/Orton: ****, the RKO was visually stunning
Lesnar/Cena: ******, nowhere near the quality of their ER match but it was unique in its own way

Excellent show. Didn't enjoy it as much as Mania but the quality was there.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Couple of Uploads:

*The Super Powers (Dusty Rhodes, The Road Warriors, Nikita Koloff & Paul Ellering) vs The Four Horsemen (Ric Flair, Lex Luger, Arn Anderson, Tully Blanchard & J.J. Dillon)
NWA War Games #1 (Atlanta, GA 07.04.1987)*

The Super Powers vs The Four Horsemen (NWA Great American Bash 1987) (NWA War Games 1) (Atlanta, GA 07.04.1987)

Original Broadcast Version.

x23yh4o

*Chris Benoit vs Steven Regal (12.02.1996) (WCW Monday Nitro)*

x23yjq7

Nice match here.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Can we please have Sheamus vs. Lesnar now?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cheated my way through the show into the last three matches since they interested me the most and got done with them.

Steph vs Brie - ★★¼ (Pretty entertaining for what it was. Obviously didn't expect a wrestling classic but Steph put on a good performance and she looked super hot as usual even though I'd rather had her in a 2003 outfit. lmao @ HHH and his usual trolling, it just never gets old. Nice to see Steph win as well although I didn't expect the Nikki heel turn despite all the predictions on here.)

Orton vs Reigns - ★★★ (Randy did about as well as one could expect him carrying the green as goose shit Reigns. Match is not all that after all but it's decent and just about all one could ask for since Reigns is no good at all and offers about nothing other than his 4-5 moves. The Samoan Drop from the top rope was cool, though. Finishing stretch was cool with the powerslam & RKO counters but Reigns wins as expected. Now can you please get Randy the fuck away from him, turn him face and put him in there with Lesnar next?)

Brock vs Cena - ★★★½ (I really don't know how to rate this. Much like ER, this was a total squash with Lesnar just toying around with Cena but at the same time, it's very different. While in ER Brock stuck to using strikes, here he keeps spamming the German Suplex about a hundred times. Cena is pretty good at selling a beat-down as he looked completely hopeless. The quick F5 in the beginning was a surprise too. Brock thankfully wins and looks like a complete beast while doing so. Let him have the belt until Mania, put him in there with Orton, Sheamus & Batista then have Bryan win RR for Bryan/Brock at WM. Pushing Reigns so far this early will quickly backfire.)

Now time to move on to the rest of the card, specially the lumberjack which I heard good things about.


----------



## El Dylan (Jun 28, 2011)

Miz/Ziggler - ***
Paige/AJ - **3/4
Swagger/Rusev- ***1/4
Ambrose/Rollins - ****
Jericho/Bray - ***
Brie/Stephanie - **
Reigns/Orton - **3/4
Cena/Lesnar - from ****1/2 to ***** need to rewatch it to judge its replay value


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Goku said:


> Can we please have Sheamus vs. Lesnar now?


You know, I'm not sure if I want to see it anymore... or at least not before Lesnar drops the belt. Lesnar/Sheamus would be great as a back and fourth match... but at this point if they did that with Lesnar before the match where he loses the title, I think it only hurts Brock. I'm not sure how well Sheamus would play the role Cena just played tonight... maybe mounting a little more offense, but overall it being the same. 

If Lesnar sticks around after losing the title (hopefully at Mania) and can go back to having matches like the ones with Punk, Taker, and HHH (with it being more of a traditional match), then I'd be all for Lesnar/Sheamus then.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I feel like it watched a totally different Reigns/Orton match than the rest of you. I think it was a very, very good match and I'm legit shocked that when I refreshed my page so many of you were shitting on it. Randy was absolutely awesome and Reigns did exactly what he needed to. I dunno. Definitely gotta rewatch it when I get home to see if I some how missed something.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Like i said, I sure hope to fuck he doesn't lose the belts at NOC. Not after that. Right now im just so happy Brock is champ, and in such a dominant manner.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> You know, I'm not sure if I want to see it anymore... or at least not before Lesnar drops the belt. Lesnar/Sheamus would be great as a back and fourth match... but at this point if they did that with Lesnar before the match where he loses the title, I think it only hurts Brock. I'm not sure how well Sheamus would play the role Cena just played tonight... maybe mounting a little more offense, but overall it being the same.
> 
> If Lesnar sticks around after losing the title (hopefully at Mania) and can go back to having matches like the ones with Punk, Taker, and HHH (with it being more of a traditional match), then I'd be all for Lesnar/Sheamus then.


WWE could just play it off by having Brock's then opponent say "Cena/Taker underestimated you, but I won't make the same mistake" or something to that extent. If that was to happen, they could work the match anyway they please.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Fab Four said:


> Like i said, I sure hope to fuck he doesn't lose the belts at NOC. Not after that. Right now im just so happy Brock is champ, and in such a dominant manner.


You need to stop being so paranoid. He MURDERED Cena like no one ever has, there's no way in hell they're going to build him up like that just to have Cena beat him next month.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

It was plodding. Orton was doing his usual routine and Reigns is very limited, we all know this. Quality only started after Orton hit his powerslam and then it didn't last too long after. Wasn't bad and I'd probably call it good, but I'm being nice because I liked the show overall.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well, Lesnar looked fucking DOMINANT. He just absolutely destroyed Cena. That Undertaker sit up and laugh was epic. Fuck knows where Cena goes from here. He absolutely CANNOT just come right back and beat Lesnar. No way. They finally booked Lesnar properly this year, the way it should have been from the start. He's a killer, and un-fucking-stoppable. Interested to see where they go with him moving forward.

Rest of the show... well I skipped most of it as usual .

Ambrose/Rollins was fun chaos, though I don't know if my downloaded version was fucked up, but they showed the hype video package and then BAM the match was already happening. Honestly this is the sort of match they SHOULD have had last month, with SummerSlam being some COOL stipulation instead. Oh well. NOC best not disappoint.

Reigns/Orton was horrible. HORRIBLE. Dull as fuck. Reigns did nothing until the finishing stretch... and neither did Orton. I think the voices in his head keep telling him to apply headlocks. Was actually a little surprised to see Reigns kick out of the RKO.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> WWE could just play it off by having Brock's then opponent say "Cena/Taker underestimated you, but I won't make the same mistake" or something to that extent. If that was to happen, they could work the match anyway they please.


But we know Cena wasn't underestimating Lesnar because he said he was gonna give it his all and he knew what Lesnar was capable of. It still wouldn't work. Only way is if Lesnar himself underestimated Sheamus and then Sheamus ends up playing off that during the match. 


But even then, I'd rather Sheamus stay far away from the WWE World Title and face Lesnar after he loses it.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> But we know Cena wasn't underestimating Lesnar because he said he was gonna give it his all and he knew what Lesnar was capable of. It still wouldn't work. Only way is if Lesnar himself underestimated Sheamus and then Sheamus ends up playing off that during the match.
> 
> But even then, I'd rather Sheamus stay far away from the WWE World Title and face Lesnar after he loses it.


But as evident by the match, Cena just attacked Brock with a more balls than brains approach (no gameplay or strategy). Sheamus could also say "I have a plan, a strategy"

Really it's such a minor detail to be hung up on that deprives us from must see matches. Although, I'd fancy a Brock vs Ryback vs Axel match that would work in a squash format. Axel and Ryback could blame Heyman for their downfall.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Ziggler/Miz - ***. Fun opener, great moment.
AJ/Paige - **3/4. Much better than the BG match. Paige is so much better as heel.
Swagger/Rusev - ***3/4. What a match! A real sleeper. Rusev is so fucking good at selling. He proved it at BG but now he took it to a whole another level. Swagger was great too. Loved it.
Ambrose/Rollins - ****. :sodone
Jericho/Wyatt - ***1/4. Once again, much better than BG. Good match and great finish.
Reigns/Orton - ***. Good match. Orton into Karl Anderson mode with dem counters. The mid-air RKO ruled. Reigns still needs a lot of work.
Lesnar/Cena - ***1/2. Again, :sodone

Top to bottom, awesome show with fantastic booking.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Ambrose/Rollins excluding the Lumberjacks involvement was decent, but felt like a giant c*ck tease for their next match. Lesnar/Cena was great but not on par with their ER match.

Didn't bother watching the rest cause just lookin at the card made me laugh.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Just watched Lesnar/Cena, and man, I liked it 10x better than their overrated ER match. This one had the CLEAR CUT storytelling and sharp focus. Such a simple and effective match with brilliant pacing, Lesnar was an outstanding aggressor, and Cena sold for him exceptionally. I loved the Taker callback from Brock, that was gold. Details matter. As far as MOTYC list goes, I only have Virus/Titan, Styles/Suzuki and Nakamura/Tanahashi (IA) ahead of this match. With this match being fucking great, just imagine what Bryan/Lesnar could be, I mean Bryan is half Cena's size, would sell even better for Lesnar, and unlike Cena, has the full throttle support from the crowds.

****3/4


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Great ending to the Lesnar/Cena match. Seeing Cena getting dominated throughout the whole match was awesome. 

#beastmode


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> But we know Cena wasn't underestimating Lesnar because he said he was gonna give it his all and he knew what Lesnar was capable of. It still wouldn't work. Only way is if Lesnar himself underestimated Sheamus and then Sheamus ends up playing off that during the match.
> 
> 
> But even then, I'd rather Sheamus stay far away from the WWE World Title and face Lesnar after he loses it.



I really really hope we get the Brock/Bryan matchup at some point. I think the story tells itself just with them having a face off in the ring. Plus, Bryan could get a lot more offense in than Cena, believably, because they can tell the story of Brock totally underestimating Bryan. They can start the match with Brock doing that great arrogant laugh he does, just pointing at Bryan and laughing and Bryan getting more and more pissed. After Bryan charges Brock a few times and gets tossed off like a rag doll, Brock can do what he did to Rey and yell "You're just a little guy!" After that happens a few times, Bryan says fuck it, and flys in with his running knee finisher, which stuns Brock and has him doing that "out on his feet" sell. Then they can go from there, with all of Bryan's offense consisting of shots to Brock's head and kicks to Brock's abdomen. Obviously Brock should still control about 75% of the match, but in my mind that's the most effective and believable way to work a Brock/Danielson matchup. 

My question for you guys is, in the recorded history of wrestling, how many times, if any, has the incumbent "top guy" and world champ just been physically destroyed to that level. Essentially squashed?

The only ones that come to mind are:

Diesel vs Backlund (Diesel won in less than a minute, not really the same thing though because Backlund was way past his prime and it was over so quickly)

Bruno vs Buddy Rogers (Same deal, Rogers was injured and it ended in minutes)

I really can't think of any match that's happened since 1985 or so that resulted in the world champ getting physically destroyed for 15 minutes and losing cleanly to an incumbent heel. Serious, serious props to Cena for doing business last night, you can say he owed it for all the times he won when he shouldn't, but I just can't see any of WWE's previous top hands EVER agreeing to do something like this (No way Austin, Rock, Hogan, Hunter, Michaels, Orton, Bret Hart, Batista do that while in their primes, no way). I guess after Taker willingly did it at WM, Cena thought it would only be right to follow suit. The difference is, Takers career for all intents and purposes is over, Cena still has several years left as a full time guy. He deserves a ton of credit for this, I don't care what anyone says.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Vader destroyed Michaels cleanly in a tag match in 96. I'm counting it because the partners for each guy were Lothario and Cornette. I believe HHH got squashed by Big Show as champ too. And Undertaker has let nearly every neighborhood monster crush him. And for the third time, Cena got squashed worse by Khali. Why aren't you guys acknowledging this? :side:


----------



## RATED R RULES (May 27, 2007)

Very good show. Consistent as anything. Lots of *** range matches in there that were immensely watchable. 

Brock Cena definitely I'd have below four stars but it was far better it was than them having a ***** back and forth classic so I don't think anyone can complain about quality. Personally think the booking for the entire show was spot on. All the winners make sense to me and the style of matches. Struggling to find a complaint with this show really. A rare moment of praise from me


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)




----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I see a couple more folks warming up to Rusev/Swagger now so this is good. Brock vs. Sheamus needs to happen now, I agree.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I feel like it watched a totally different Reigns/Orton match than the rest of you. I think it was a very, very good match and I'm legit shocked that when I refreshed my page so many of you were shitting on it. Randy was absolutely awesome and Reigns did exactly what he needed to. I dunno. Definitely gotta rewatch it when I get home to see if I some how missed something.


Yeah brother, it looks like it's just me and you. Everyone's saying "nothing happened until the last few minutes" but I think they're just forgetting how Orton usually wrestles all his longer matches. 



Chismo said:


> Just watched Lesnar/Cena, and man, I liked it 10x better than their overrated ER match. This one had the CLEAR CUT storytelling and sharp focus. Such a simple and effective match with brilliant pacing, Lesnar was an outstanding aggressor, and Cena sold for him exceptionally. I loved the Taker callback from Brock, that was gold. Details matter. As far as MOTYC list goes, I only have Virus/Titan, Styles/Suzuki and Nakamura/Tanahashi (IA) ahead of this match. With this match being fucking great, just imagine what Bryan/Lesnar could be, I mean Bryan is half Cena's size, would sell even better for Lesnar, and unlike Cena, has the full throttle support from the crowds.
> 
> ****3/4


Where the fuck has this guy been!?


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Said it before but I'm so far past caring about stories and direction that I'll just take good matches in a vacuum on these PPVs either now. This show has Rollins/Ambrose and Cena/Lesnar so I thought for sure I'd at least get something to enjoy. Nope. Swagger/Rusev ended up being MOTN imo and that was just like good to very good.

Miz/Ziggler wasn't close to their Raw match so you got a better match for absolutely free. They've been building up Miz getting his face crushed all month and then Dolph finally catches him right on the nose and superkicks him and silence. Miz's goofy selling was probably partially to blame too though. Who wins obviously matters zero. AJ and Paige tried. Character work was good but the in ring work was lacking. I think Paige's LESBIAN INTENTIONS got the biggest pop of the night during actual bell time. Swagger/Rusev I really liked thanks to Rusev. His selling was as good as anyone has sold in WWE all year. He's really super working a dominant heel who shows enough pain to make it look as though he's in danger which them makes him look even better when he overcomes it. Swagger is still super robotic. 100% replaceable in that role. I like how a Flag Match just ended up being a normal match except the winner gets to wave their flag.... which they do after they win anyway. I think it's time to start to accept that Rusev is really fucking good in this role and can have good matches with guys who don't always have good matches. Jericho/Wyatt was just dull and boring. I remember nothing about it. Same for Reigns/Orton. Reigns really should have got the Rollins feud if he's the one they want to be a megastar. Instead he's stuck with ice cold Orton and he's really cooling down himself now. RKO spot was cool and part of me hopes they stole the finish off Anderson/Naito from G1 last week. Reigns being dead after and then suddenly having the energy for a full celebration was meh. At least have Cole sell the idea that he was playing possum somewhat to catch Randy off guard.

Rollins/Ambrose I thought was just a total mess. Was almost impossible for them to build any heat when every other spot had to be about the lumberjacks. I guess I could see why some would find this match fun but these two having a match like this is horrendous booking given the heat they had built up. The lumberjack spots were just stupid. Heels were throwing Rollins straight back into the ring and for some reason they all decided Rollins and Ambrose had to be separated on the outside. Just a total mess in every form.

Cena/Lesnar was ok as an angle but booking Lesnar like this is just too late now and too short term because he pretty much has to lose at Wrestlemania now which is only a few matches later. At least let me have a great match. This is really what should have happened at Extreme Rules 2012 with Lesnar doing this to Taker as well but they've already shown Lesnar can be beat and that this is the only guy Lesnar has ever squashed like this. It's cool booking Lesnar like this now but I seriously doubt it makes any difference to anything now because they don't have the patience to do things like this properly. Would have dumped Cena's STFU spot at the end and just had Brock decide enough is enough on his own terms rather than realising Cena can still win better end it now.

Forgot about Steph/Brie. That was horrific too. Nice job letting these work for 10 minutes when Cesaro gets nothing. Steph working like a confident arrogant heel was stupid given who she is and that Brie had to goad her into the match against her will. This program is just a waste of time because none of them can be a big money star afterwards so they're just using up someone else's time who could actually benefit from it. Match was really bad. Like something you'd see from two trainees during the first week of wrestling school. Nikki turn was whatever. Who cares about this really. Cole is so bad at selling these big turns too. Just has no credibility to his calls. Moment of the night however may have been Hunter selling a baseball slide from BRIE BELLA like death. Yes they continue to book Brie Bella as a stronger threat than they do Daniel Bryan. Also the crowd chanting for Steph is why I hate modern pro raps fans in a nutshell.*


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

LESBIAN INTENTIONS is definitely a thing.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Yeah brother, it looks like it's just me and you. Everyone's saying "nothing happened until the last few minutes" but I think they're just forgetting how Orton usually wrestles all his longer matches.


So because he does it for all his matches makes it okay? It's boring as shit.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Goku said:


> LESBIAN INTENTIONS is definitely a thing.
> 
> 
> 
> So because he does it for all his matches makes it okay? It's boring as shit.


Doesn't bother me. If you find it boring that's fine. I just feel like people say the same things about every match now and it hinders their enjoyment before they even watch it. Orton's boring and Reigns doesn't do anything but 5 moves, we get it. If people liked Brock using 16 german suplexes there's certainly no reason why they can't like a match that featured much more variety. That's all I'm sayin.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Loving all these Brock Avi's and Sig's.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Doesn't bother me. If you find it boring that's fine.* I just feel like people say the same things about every match now and it hinders their enjoyment before they even watch it.* Orton's boring and Reigns doesn't do anything but 5 moves, we get it. If people liked Brock using 16 german suplexes there's certainly no reason why they can't like a match that featured much more variety. That's all I'm sayin.


*So they should just accept the match will dull and enjoy it for being what it is (dull)?

SHOCKED at so many people saying Orton/Reigns was even good. Reigns got no shine outside the finish which was so sudden anyway. No spots in the match designed to make him look great and get that superstar pop. It was like they just said "let him kick out of the RKO and win the match and that will be enough to get him over". Just really lazy booking. I'm stunned at how rarely babyfaces get any proper shine at the start of a match. Heels just cut them off straight away and it makes them look shit because only get offence in for the finish. Why on earth wouldn't you give Reigns and Ambrose 5 minutes of whipping the heels' ass until they cut them off in heel fashion. Instead the heels just get the upper hand by fair means and it's stupid. If they want to get Reigns hot they need to give him a feud with a heel who has momentum that can carry him a bit and work a fast paced high impact match with him. Again, he'd be on course to being what they wanted him to be if he feuding with Rollins and not Ambrose.*


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't recall Ambrose not getting any proper shine.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Seabs said:


> *So they should just accept the match will dull and enjoy it for being what it is (dull)?
> 
> SHOCKED at so many people saying Orton/Reigns was even good. Reigns got no shine outside the finish which was so sudden anyway. No spots in the match designed to make him look great and get that superstar pop. It was like they just said "let him kick out of the RKO and win the match and that will be enough to get him over". Just really lazy booking. I'm stunned at how rarely babyfaces get any proper shine at the start of a match. Heels just cut them off straight away and it makes them look shit because only get offence in for the finish. Why on earth wouldn't you give Reigns and Ambrose 5 minutes of whipping the heels' ass until they cut them off in heel fashion. Instead the heels just get the upper hand by fair means and it's stupid. If they want to get Reigns hot they need to give him a feud with a heel who has momentum that can carry him a bit and work a fast paced high impact match with him. Again, he'd be on course to being what they wanted him to be if he feuding with Rollins and not Ambrose.*


If you find it dull afterwards then that's fine. I don't have a problem with that. In this thread we just had weeks of people speculating on how bad the match was gonna be because of the reasons I stated, therefore they already had it in their minds that they didn't like it. Therefore they watch and claim it's dull and bad, just as they expected. I for one always had an open mind about it and enjoyed all of it along the way. If you watch, Reigns is the one who gains advantage at the opening bell before he gets thrown into the steel steps which is what starts Orton's long workover segment. The only thing I would consider being dull were the chinlocks, but it wasn't that big of a deal to me. Other than that there was plenty to see and more than just an RKO imo. It doesn't seem like you like much that the WWE does these days anyway so it's already a lock that I'm going to enjoy most things more than you. Oh and I can totally see what you're saying about Reigns celebration after winning, but it didn't bother me much. At least you liked Rusev/Swagger a good bit.

We all have our opinions fellas.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*It was pretty short/weak.*


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> If you find it dull afterwards then that's fine. I don't have a problem with that. In this thread we just had weeks of people speculating on how bad the match was gonna be because of the reasons I stated, therefore they already had it in their minds that they didn't like it. Therefore they watch and claim it's dull and bad, just as they expected. I for one always had an open mind about it and enjoyed all of it along the way. If you watch, Reigns is the one who gains advantage at the opening bell before he gets thrown into the steel steps which is what starts Orton's long workover segment. The only thing I would consider being dull were the chinlocks, but it wasn't that big of a deal to me. Other than that there was plenty to see and more than just an RKO imo. It doesn't seem like you like much that the WWE does these days anyway so it's already a lock that I'm going to enjoy most things more than you. Oh and I can totally see what you're saying about Reigns celebration after winning, but it didn't bother me much. At least you liked Rusev/Swagger a good bit.
> 
> We all have our opinions fellas.


*But if most of Orton's matches are dull than what is wrong with people fearing this one would be dull too? It's fine to have different opinions on matches but I don't get what the issue is with people expecting something to be bad and then saying it was bad when it happened and they thought it was bad. Are people wrong for assuming every Eva Marie match will be terrible and then saying it was terrible afterwards? 

Gaining advantage isn't the same as a shine segment. A shine segment makes the babyface look superior and like a superstar. Reigns and Ambrose didn't look that. If you want to see a shine segment done properly watch some MX matches where they bump like hell for the babyfaces before cutting them off. *


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Brock didn't use 16 german suplexes fwiw. He used 15 and one different variation. Noticed this on my third watch :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Seabs said:


> *But if most of Orton's matches are dull than what is wrong with people fearing this one would be dull too? It's fine to have different opinions on matches but I don't get what the issue is with people expecting something to be bad and then saying it was bad when it happened and they thought it was bad. Are people wrong for assuming every Eva Marie match will be terrible and then saying it was terrible afterwards?
> 
> Gaining advantage isn't the same as a shine segment. A shine segment makes the babyface look superior and like a superstar. Reigns and Ambrose didn't look that. If you want to see a shine segment done properly watch some MX matches where they bump like hell for the babyfaces before cutting them off. *


Got no problem with what you're saying. For the sake of being repetitive with other things I've said, no real response about being consistent with how you view matches (not to you). 

I'd say Ambrose most definitely had a shine segment though. He had Rollins pinned clean after destroying him with a lariat and hitting the curb stomp before Kane made the save. Reigns may not have had the sequence you're referring to but he kicked out of an RKO and beat Randy Orton clean at the 2nd biggest PPV of the year. That sounds like something that makes you look like a star for sure.

EDIT: And what is MX?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

MIDNIGHT EXPRESS.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Doesn't bother me. If you find it boring that's fine. I just feel like people say the same things about every match now and it hinders their enjoyment before they even watch it. Orton's boring and Reigns doesn't do anything but 5 moves, we get it. If people liked Brock using 16 german suplexes there's certainly no reason why they can't like a match that featured much more variety. That's all I'm sayin.


Orton's offence is generally dull in 1 on 1 matches. This is nothing new. Reigns has all the arsenal of a rhinoceros to boot. Did I expect the match to be dull? Not really. I expected them to keept it short (sub 10 mins).

If anything I'm open to liking it more than I should because I enjoyed the show as a whole and that would be made easier by that match being really fucking good. You're suffering from the same disease you diagnose in thinking that I want the match to be bad when I really don't.

As for you comparing the content of Reigns/Orton to Brock/Cena, LMAO.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Got no problem with what you're saying. For the sake of being repetitive with other things I've said, no real response about being consistent with how you view matches (not to you).
> 
> *I'd say Ambrose most definitely had a shine segment though. He had Rollins pinned clean after destroying him with a lariat and hitting the curb stomp before Kane made the save.* Reigns may not have had the sequence you're referring to but he kicked out of an RKO and beat Randy Orton clean at the 2nd biggest PPV of the year. That sounds like something that makes you look like a star for sure.
> 
> EDIT: And what is MX?


*That was at the end. I'm talking about at the start of matches. 

On paper beating Orton and kicking out of the RKO at Summerslam in the semi-main was good for Reigns but in reality it hasn't done him any good because the program is super cold, they're exposing Reigns' weaknesses rather than his strengths and the match being dull made Reigns look like he can't hang at that level in a longer match. I don't know how anyone can say Reigns is any hotter now than he was before The Shield split.*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Goku said:


> Orton's offence is generally dull in 1 on 1 matches. This is nothing new. Reigns has all the arsenal of a rhinoceros to boot. Did I expect the match to be dull? Not really. I expected them to keept it short (sub 10 mins).
> 
> If anything I'm open to liking it more than I should because I enjoyed the show as a whole and that would be made easier by that match being really fucking good. You're suffering from the same disease you diagnose in thinking that I want the match to be bad when I really don't.
> 
> *As for you comparing the content of Reigns/Orton to Brock/Cena, LMAO*.


This is a ridiculous sentence. 

I also never said anything to you directly about thinking Orton/Reigns was bad before it happened. You don't even post in here regularly, just when the PPVs roll around. Let's just move on from this Orton/Reigns shit.

THE FANTASTICS


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Been saying this all along. Im expecting Brock to drop the belts to cena at NOC.

After what happened, it would be beyond stupid IMO, but maybe they are setting us up for 'Cena REALLY overcomes the odds this time'. :cuss: Cena gets another title win.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Fab Four said:


> Been saying this all along. Im expecting Brock to drop the belts to cena at NOC.
> 
> After what happened, it would be beyond stupid IMO, but maybe they are setting us up for 'Cena REALLY overcomes the odds this time'. :cuss: Cena gets another title win.


I don't see them doing a rematch at Night of Champions. After watching Summerslam, what general fan is gonna think Cena stands ANY sort of a chance, ya know? I'm interested to see how many appearances Brock will be making now and how often he defends. If they eventually do Brock/Cena III, I think it needs to be held off for a while. Possibly next year.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*WWE are normally very predictable when it comes to guys like Lesnar. He's retaining until Wrestlemania when he probably loses to Reigns. I know they do stupid stuff but how anyone can honestly think Cena is just winning next month is beyond me.*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I don't see them doing a rematch at Night of Champions. After watching Summerslam, what general fan is gonna think Cena stands ANY sort of a chance, ya know? I'm interested to see how many appearances Brock will be making now and how often he defends. If they eventually do Brock/Cena III, I think it needs to be held off for a while. Possibly next year.


I hope you are right. Brock should NOT be losing anytime this year, couldn't give a fuck if he is a 'Part Time Champ' or not. Be interesting if not Cena, then who at NOC?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*SUMMERFEST 2014:*
RVD/Cesaro: **1/4
---------------------------------------
Miz/Ziggler: ***1/4
AJ/Paige: ***
Swagger/Rusev ***1/2
Rollins/Ambrose: ****
Jericho/Wyatt: **3/4
Steph/Brie: **1/2
Orton/Reigns: **3/4
Cena/Lesnar: ****​
- I guess I was the only one in this board who actually watched RVD/Cesaro. Then again, you guys didn't miss much. It was RVD doing his shit, Cesaro being Cesaro (including doing a mock Rolling Thunder), back-and-forth at the end and that's it. RVD winning was shit, btw. Entertaining match, which is surprising giving their ridiculous lack of chemistry together, but nothing special whatsoever.

- Miz/Ziggler was pretty damn fun. Miz's best performance in ever, w/him protecting his "money maker" and coming off with nice if goofy facial expressions. I don't like that Miz doesn't apply any work on the knees before the Figure-4, but so many others do shit like that, so whatever. Ziggler was Ziggler, selling like Ziggler and such. Cool sequences were abound, Miz got satisfyingly kicked in the face, Ziggler rightfully won and this was pretty good overall.

- Well, I was right - Battleground was nothing more than a cocktease for SummerSlam. Shouldn't have even happened tbh. AJ/Paige blew hard one month ago. Skip to SummerSlam and they put on probably the best told story in any Divas match this year. Divas MOTY so far not counting NXT; w/Paige's best performance in the main roster so far to boot. Talk about a BITCH.

- Swagger/Rusev... my God this blew me away. Really fucking good. Much like AJ/Paige, the Battleground match (which was actually good btw) was shattered into a million pieces by the quality of this Flag match. A match brilliantly based around two injuries which brought down the fight between these two big guys. Swagger did a very nice job of selling the ribs. But Rusev though... WOW. Otherworldly selling of his ankle. Excellent stuff.

- I understand the complaints that Rollins/Ambrose was a mess, one of the reasons being that the lumberjacks didn't really do their applied job that well, but I really couldn't give less of a shit about that because this match was one big shot of adrenaline. funnyfaces1 and cjack saw my booking of that match (as did some other folks) and the actual match came off quite similar to what I had in mind. One massive satisfier of a war for myself.

- Jericho/Wyatt, again like AJ/Paige and Swagger/Rusev, improved on the Battleground match. Was it actually good like other two were? Eh, I'd say it was decent. Bray putting on one vicious-ass performance, beating the hell out of Jericho and calling himself a God and whatnot being the main reasons. Jericho could've done better, though. Bray beat his head in quite a lot (stuff like a running splash into his head placed in the post, or the ol' apron DDT) and Chris... didn't really sell it as well as I hoped he would. Still decent, even if kinda slow paced.

- Steph/Brie I knew would either be a huge car crash or a sleeper. Turned out to be kinda a sleeper. Kinda. Steph looked WAAAAAYYYY better than I ever hoped she would, although I expected this match to be more of a squash than a competitive one as it was. Still, it was a fine little contest. Steph played her part brilliantly ("YOU'RE MY BITCH NOW" :banderas), Brie... played her part and the rest were shenanigans that I saw coming miles away but still made sense. Decent overall.

- Orton/Reigns... well, props for Orton's inspired performance for one. After all of those REST HOLDZ~, he went into machine mode beating the crap out of Roman on the outside and coming out w/some quite good counters (DAT RKO). Roman also showed more than he usually does tbh. Top rope Samoan drop looked nice. That being said... the match's 1st half was dull as all shit and it wasn't until they that out they started to get good. Don't know what most folks praising it highly see so special about it. Had its moments, decent overall, but nothing I'd call "good".

- Cena/Lesnar on the other hand was good. Really. Fucking. Good. Obviously it's no match for the ER classic, but what the hell, much like ER it was still one of the most unique and surreal matches in the last few years - all in the while being very different from ER. Who the fucking hell ever saw JOHN CENA GETTING SQUASHED on the Main Event of a major PPV coming? Obviously the German Suplex schtick wore out by the 9th or 10th, but in spite of that, Lesnar just put on a damn near legendary performance. Him sitting up mocking Taker and just laughing off Cena's AA was EPIC. Cena did very nice too, selling well for Brock and giving his fans a slimmer of hope that he'd do one of his comebacks. This was so fucking awesome. Like everyone has said, GOAT squash match.

Like I expected, this wasn't as good as last year's SummerSlam. However, it was still really fucking great of a show. Arguably a top 10 SS ever even. And definitely in contention w/WrestleMania as PPV of the Year so far.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> This is a ridiculous sentence.


lolk?



Jack Evans 187 said:


> If people liked Brock using 16 german suplexes there's certainly no reason why they can't like a match that featured much more variety. That's all I'm sayin.





> I also never said anything to you directly about thinking Orton/Reigns was bad before it happened. You don't even post in here regularly, just when the PPVs roll around. Let's just move on from this Orton/Reigns shit.


Perhaps don't quote my post then.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Fab Four said:


> I hope you are right. Brock should NOT be losing anytime this year, couldn't give a fuck if he is a 'Part Time Champ' or not. Be interesting if not Cena, then who at NOC?


I actually thought about this last night and right now, the ONLY credible face challenger they have that could go up against Lesnar anytime soon would be Reigns. This is other than Cena of course. Let's look at the list:

1. Cena (rematch clause)
2. Reigns (huge win over Orton and on a roll)





3. Mark Henry & Big Show (they have both a past with Lesnar and that's about it)

Other than that, all the heels went over at Summerslam. Rusev, Rollins, Wyatt. My hope is that they either build up Sheamus for a match against Lesnar or turn Cesaro face to combat the monster and Heyman. That should be relatively easy to do.


----------



## Rap God (Mar 12, 2014)

> As noted, WWE will be releasing "The Randy Savage Story" on DVD and Blu-ray this November. The special Collector's Edition box set with the new 2014 DVD, the 2009 Macho Madness DVD, an exclusive t-shirt, Savage bandana and sunglasses is currently up for pre-order on Amazon for $83.30.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Arguably top ten Summerslam? Only one other edition had as many good matches as this one.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Arguably top ten Summerslam? Only one other edition had as many good matches as this one.


Did you get to see the show? Recalled you saying you'd be on vacation. But yes, I'd probably say top 10 for my money. Everything on the show was good imo, with Steph/Brie being the "worst" match if you wanna call it that.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Brie/Steph and Cesaro/RVD are all I haven't seen.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

One of my favorite moments from the Brock/Cena match. Dude just looked like a total monster with no regard for human life.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Don't watch that much wrestling anymore but;

*Miz/Ziggler* - ***. Liked it more than expected (cos I like nothing featuring Miz). Questionable having them kick out of finishers for a PPV opener but oh well.
*Paige/AJ* - **. Feel they can produce better with more time but a good finish.
*Rusev/Swagger* - LANA. Didn't watch but I thought Hogan would've chased Rusev away at the end.
*Ambrose/Rollins* - ***1/4. Probably my favourite lumberjack match ever but that's not saying much. I like how when Goldust was struck by Kane, Cody immediately ran in to punch a random heel on the other side of the ring.
*Wyatt/Jericho* - Didn't bother.
*Steph/Brie* - I watched 2 minutes then gave up.
*Reigns/Orton* - Really good. But I skipped over the first 10 minutes and only watched the end stretch.
*Cena/Lesnar* - ***. Apart from the opening F5 I never really got into it.

So unless one of the matches I didn't watch was truly awful or great then everything was pretty middle of the road with nothing to really recommend.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Shocked so many didnt like Y2J/Wyatt, thought it was pretty good, Wyatt was really good in it. Some parts died down but it was still a good match

Ambrose/Rollins was crap, if it was ANY two else or the man named Cena was in the match would be DUD city. Wasnt their fault in the slightest either, to much shenanigans had gone on, had a nice clothesline but that's it. They were in the ring about 10% of the match, horrid gimmick.


Seen so many say it was the GOAT lumberjack too :kobe9, never seen Steamboat/Vader, Show/Sheamus, or Henry/Christian I guess


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

NAITCH said:


> Ambrose/Rollins was crap, if it was ANY two else or the man named Cena was in the match would be DUD city. Wasnt their fault in the slightest either, to much shenanigans had gone on, had a nice clothesline but that's it. They were in the ring about 10% of the match, horrid gimmick.


I thought Ambrose/Rollins was fun as hell. I thought the chaos with Ambrose/Rollins going outside of the ring and the lumberjacks having trouble bringing them back in matched the rivalry that was building up to this match. It was so chaotic that the lumberjacks had trouble containing them and that was really fun to see, hopefully this will lead to a HIAC match in the future. I also loved Dean doing the curb stomp to Rollins as that was a nice touch and showed how personal this was. Different strokes for different folks I guess lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Don't see why Ambrose and Rollins not being in the ring that much is an issue. It WAS Ambrose/Rollins after all, people. Lumberjack stipulation or not, those two should've NEVER, EVER been kept in the ring for much of the match; they should've brawled and destroyed each other all over the arena, like they did. The lumberjacks were SHENANIGANZ~, but I loved it because it only added to the chaotic frenzy of the match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

^ exactly. If they had a straight up wrestling match I would've been thinking WTF?!?

Will post my detailed LIVE recap of SummerSlam when I get home from work. :tlk


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

NAITCH said:


> Shocked so many didnt like Y2J/Wyatt, thought it was pretty good, Wyatt was really good in it. Some parts died down but it was still a good match


Gotta be honest. When Wyatt does his stupid spider thing...it just irks me. Jericho being a 100 year veteran should just kick him either square in the back, or kick his teeth in. He might as well have blown on the fuckers belly the way he acted.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*The brawling was fine but it made the stip utterly pointless. The stip wasn't even needed for the finish. Just make it Falls Count Anywhere and have Kane come down for the distraction finish and actually let them have a proper match where they can get the hate really over. It's like WHY would you restrict yourself like that.

Also extremely disappointed Rowan didn't come out dressed as a lumberjack and spending all match looking around and then at Harper mouthing "but I thought we were supposed to be lumberjacks???".

Edit: The spider spot is horrible. Jericho being creeped out by it was just silly. Surely he's seen it before and what is exactly so scary about it that you freeze?*


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Agreed that the stip was rendered pointless (as usual) and the spider spot was garbage.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Rollins/Ambrose had the right idea being 1) a feud advancer 2) chaotic 3) need something to set up their blow-off, but it was executed poorly IMO. The SHENANIGANS were too dumb for me too really enjoy it. I understand the thought process of the match so I wont bury it, but I cant say I enjoyed it


I've learned that Y2J does atleast 1 really non-logically or unrealistic spot/thing in most of his matches so I just take it for what its worth I guess


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

*WWE SUMMERSLAM 2014*

Kickoff: Rob Van Dam vs Cesaro ***

WWE Intercontinental Championship
The Miz (c) vs Dolph Ziggler *3/4

WWE Diva's Championship
AJ Lee (c) vs Paige *

Flag Match
Rusev vs Jack Swagger **1/2

Lumberjack Match
Seth Rollins vs Dean Ambrose ***1/4

Bray Wyatt vs Chris Jericho **1/2

Stephanie McMahon vs Brie Bella 1/2*

Randy Orton vs Roman Reigns **3/4

WWE World Heavyweight Championship
John Cena (c) vs Brock Lesnar ***1/2

Overall Grade: 6.0


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, I also thought that the way they played it, the Lumberjack stip was pretty much pointless. It was stupid from the start anyway, and despite in a way making sense, whoever thought of it in the first place must be one of dem creative monkeys. Especially when you remember that kayfabe-wise Ambrose himself chose the stip. But then again, he IS Ambrose. Don't ever take a lunatic's word for granted. Plus, it allowed for some cool bumps, so there's that .

Bray's spider spot peaked at WM 30 vs Cena this year. This one against Jericho... bleh city.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Arguably top ten Summerslam? Only one other edition had as many good matches as this one.


I dunno, I'd say 2013, 2011, 2002 and possibly 2009 have it beat for me. A couple I need to re-watch (2001, 2003) might be in contention too. 2009 is hurt by Orton/Cena and 2003 is hurt by the dreadful EC though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SummerSlam 2014 talk bores me. SMACKDOWN 2006, BITCHES~!










*No Way Out 2006*

Oh hey, it's the PPV that got me into Theory of a Deadman, thanks to their "Deadly Game" song used as the PPV theme .


*Gregory Helms Vs Scotty 2 Hotty Vs Kid Kash Vs Psicosis Vs Super Crazy Vs Paul London Vs Nunzio Vs Brian Kendrick Vs Funaki - WWE Cruiserweight Championship Match*

A 9 way CW title match. I'm predicting a spot-fest-mess .

Scotty 2 Hotty in a title match in 2006. Gotta love it .

:lmao Kid Kash goes for a moonsault... but Funaki is too far away. But the spot called for him to roll out of the way... and he ends up rolling TOWARDS where Kash is landing... but Kash was supposed to land on his feet, and nearly double stomped the fuck out of poor Funaki .

Helms has a big target on his back in this match, after claiming he was the best CW in the world and he could beat everyone. So he does his best to avoid everyone by staying on the outside so he can pick his spots.

Everyone gets their shit in, and it's fun to watch I guess, not much more. Helms ends up taking a bunch of finishers from everyone as they try to get the win. Gotta love how he has to sell the WORM like death :lmao.

DEAD LEVEL~!

MOONSAULT~!

HELMS STEALS THE WIN~!

Like I said, it's fun to watch.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


Booker T is trying to get out of his match with Benoit tonight. I wish he was successful tbh. I'd rather never see Booker wrestle again .

Kristal and her boobs gets interrupted by FINLAY who is looking for a fight. So he kidnaps Kristal and comes out to the ring! THONG~! Lashley, who ends up actually marrying Kristal I think, comes out to make the save! Finlay beats him up, and out comes JBL for his match with Lashley! JBL runs down in hopes of capitalising on Finlay's beatdown, but Lashley fires back before he can get in the ring, and the match is gonna start with no advantage for JBL!


*JBL Vs Bobby Lashley*

JBL hits Lashley, who no sells it, and JBL just shouts DAMN as he knows he's fucked. Lashley lays in some pretty good shots on Bradshaw. I was definitely a fan of Lashley back in the day. He had a ton of potential, and was put in the ring with a lot of veterans who could really help him out (mainly FINLAY), but I think WWE's obsession with pushing certain people too fast screwed him up. I hope the same doesn't happen to Roman Reigns .

The rookie makes a mistake, and JBL makes sure to take advantage with a boot to the fucking face :mark:. Time for the big Texan to beat up another rookie .

Michael Cole just had to use LEGOS as an example to explain something to Tazz...

BELLY TO BELLY OVERHEAD SUPLEX~!

BELLY TO BELLY OVERHEAD SUPLEX~!

BELLY TO BELLY OVERHEAD SUPLEX~!

SOMEHOW JBL IS BUSTED OPEN FROM THOSE BELLY TO BELLY OVERHEAD SUPLEXES~!

HOW DID THAT EVEN HAPPEN?!?! :lmao

Lashley is about to get the win, until Finlay returns! Smashes Lashley in the throat with the Shillelagh, and JBL follows up with a CLOTHESLINE FROM HELL~!

THE STREAK IS OVER!!!

Pretty darn solid match .

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


TONIGHT'S SPECIAL GUEST... BATISTA! He had to forfeit the WHC in January after Mark Henry injured him at a house show. He's not ready to return yet, but I guess they didn't want fans to forget him .

:lmao a brunette women in the crowd has a t-shirt that says "I have a nightmare I was a blonde" :lmao. That's awesome.


Orton is backstage with Angle of all people, saying that when Batista comes back, it won't be Angle or Undertaker who is WHC, it'll be HIM.


*MNM Vs Matt Hardy & Tatanka*

I think Melina's entrance is definitely a contender for GOAT entrance. Between her and Undertaker, for VERY different reasons. One is just pure awesome and the other makes me feel tingly in my man parts. I'll let you decide which is which .

So uhhh... how fucking RANDOM was Tatanka as Hardy's partner lol? In fact how random was his return in general? 

MNM seem to be caught off guard with Tatanka being Matt's partner, and they just can't get going to start with. Luckily their numbers game comes into play, and Melina is able to get involved to help out her boys.

Tazz on Melina's scream: "It's a little annoying, but it also turns me on..." .

Awesome spot where Nitro dives off the ropes and lands right into a killer clotheslines from Tatanka!

Fun finishing stretch, ending with Tatanka hitting a Samoan Drop at the same time Hardy hits a Twist of Fate, and the tag champs have been upset in this non title match!

Solid match. Tatanka looked pretty good.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*Booker T Vs Chris Benoit - WWE United States Championship Match*

I've skipped all their other matches from 2005. People were angry at me . But they told me I should definitely skip this one. SO I'M GONNA WATCH IT 8*D.

Nah, I'm bluffing.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Rey Mysterio Vs Randy Orton - Rey's WrestleMania Title Opportunity On The Line*

EDDIESPLOTATION~!

Despite the awful use of the Eddie Guerrero name in the build up for this... I am looking forward to the match because I've always loved it :mark:.

Orton is channelling his inner PRICK. DICK. CUNT. All of those things. He's just a poopy head. And it's fucking awesome. Mocking Rey, slapping him in the face, laughing at him, and beating the fuck out of him.

The fans actually start an RKO chant at one point, but he tells them to shut up because he doesn't need their help, and they respond with a Randy Sucks chant .

:mark: Orton catches Rey coming off the apron, and swings him into the ring post. Rey sells the arm like death, and Orton wastes no time going after it.

His arm work is basic, but looks nasty and has those little touches like bending the fingers back that make me :mark:. I miss this Orton so damn much . I watched his match with Roman Reigns from SummerSlam a few hours before this, and it might as well have been Roman Reigns Vs Generic Rookie with a cool finisher. And NOTHING Orton has done so far is a big crazy move that would in ANY WAY risk his health. It's all simple shit that anyone could do... yet for some reason nobody fucking does.

Great heel work by Orton + great comeback attempts and selling by Rey is pretty much a perfect formula for this match.

ORTON'S HEAD IS BLEEDING~! From a... ummm... neck breaker type move. Apparently. Unless he got busted open a few moves prior and the blood only just started appearing now .

619 is avoided, and Randy rolls up little Rey, grabs the ropes, and steals Rey's WM title opportunity!!!

Orton is a grade A DICK. And he's damn good at it. Rey is one of the best babyfaces you are likely to ever see. Awesome match.

*Rating: *****
*CAL SCALE - 5*


*Kurt Angle Vs The Undertaker - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

:mark:

For a VERY long time, I had this match right up there with the Taker/HBK HIAC as my favourite match ever. These days nothing really comes close to the HIAC for me, but I still adore this match and always get excited to see it!

Love how this one starts. Undertaker is the striker, and runs right at Kurt with a big boot, but Angle has the speed and wrestling ability to help him avoid shit like that. Angle applies a waist lock and SHOVES Undertaker, who retaliates by swinging his arm around to try and deck the Olympic Gold Medallist, who ducks and RUNS AWAY. Undertaker realises that he needs to change up his game plan if Angle can keep avoiding those big shots, so he decides to play the wrestling game with Angle!

The arm work Undertaker does in the beginning of a match to wear his opponents down and set them up for bigger stuff is always something I enjoy, but holy fuck it might be the best example of it right here. He looks to hit Angle a little harder and Angle is definitely putting it over as a real threat to him in the match.

GERMAN SUPLEX~! Undertaker got fucking LAUNCHED.

APRON LEG DROP~!

Angle knows he's in trouble now and decides to target the legs of the Dead Man. Undertaker's selling is awesome, and I love him being able to just swat Angle away with a HUGE right hand to gain some separation, but Angle is a wrestling machine and keeps coming back and attacking those legs anyway :mark:.

FIGURE FOUR ON THE RING POST~!

Undertaker again throws Angle off him, and is able to follow up this time with a few shots. He sets Kurt up for another apron leg drop, while still selling the leg like a fucking GOAT... but Angle counters the leg drop into a fucking ANKLE LOCK :mark:. Awesome spot!

Angle brutalises Undertaker with the Ankle Lock, holding on to it for a count of 7 before going back into the ring to break up the count... then goes back out and does the same thing again!

Undertaker reminds me a lot of Benoit in how even when getting beat on, he is always trying to get back on the attack, always fighting to try and escape the hold and turn it around on his opponent. One of my favourite things from both guys tbh!

TRIANGLE CHOKE~! Angle gets to the ropes though, but Undertaker is smart enough to hold on for the full 5 count before breaking! Now Angle is suffering, putting them potentially on even ground!

The Dead Man decides it's time to END this one, and takes apart the announce table to put Angle through it! But he ends up getting distracted by the referee, who ends up running away in terror, and when he gets back to Angle, he walks right into an ANGLE SLAM thought the table!!!

The referee gets to 9, Undertaker is nowhere near the ring and... KURT ANGLE BREAKS THE COUNT! He doesn't want to win a match like that. He wants to BEAT The Undertaker and prove he's the fucking BEST.

:lmao Angle gets thrown into the ring steps, then bounces off them and ends up smashing himself throat first into a piece of the table Undertaker removed earlier .

TOP ROPE BELLY TO BELLY~!

CHOKESLAM COUNTERED INTO THE ANKLE LOCK~!

ANKLE LOCK COUNTERED INTO THE TRIANGLE CHOKE~!

TRIANGLE CHOKE COUNTERED INTO AN ANKLE LOCK~!

Great sequence of counters right there!

CHOKESLAM~! KICK OUT~!

LAST RIDE COUNTERED INTO THE ANKLE LOCK~!

ANGLE SLAM~! KICK OUT~!

Angle drops the straps... and Undertaker SITS UP :mark:.

Both men have renewed life and continue to battle head on!

TOMBSTONE ATTEMPT COUNTERED INTO A TOMBSTONE ATTEMPT FROM ANGLE COUNTERED INTO A TOMBSTONE ATTEMPT COUNTERED INTO THE ANKLE LOCK~!

Some AMAZING counters!

Undertaker again breaks free, this time by kicking the hands of Angle with his other leg to break the grip!

ANGLE SLAM~!

UNDERTAKER CATCHES ANGLE WITH A TRIANGLE CHOKE~!

Angle looks to be out of it, but musters up enough strength to roll Undertaker up while still in the hold! The referee counts to 3 and awards the match to Kurt Angle, even though he should have been checking Angle for a submission!

Incredible match still. Just incredible. I don't think I can ever get bored of this one. Undertaker is awesome. Angle is awesome. Despite seemingly having a bunch of counters and finishers at the end, honestly I felt for the most part they were REALLY well done, and both men continued to sell the effects of them even while getting offence in themselves. 

*Rating: ****3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 8*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 15*​


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Never a good thing to NO a Benoit match but at least one can hope the terror is over now.  Unless you hate Chavo to the point you skip his matches with Benoit too (which you shouldn't!).

Awesomely consistent PPV even after Benoit/Booker failed to hold up on rewatch. Orton/Rey rules and the main event is a masterpiece. I always cringe at the table spot when Angle hits his throat against the thing they put on top of the tables as... cover?


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Downloading SS 14 right now, going at a super fast 20kbs, lucky me.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Vader destroyed Michaels cleanly in a tag match in 96. I'm counting it because the partners for each guy were Lothario and Cornette. I believe HHH got squashed by Big Show as champ too. And Undertaker has let nearly every neighborhood monster crush him. And for the third time, Cena got squashed worse by Khali. Why aren't you guys acknowledging this? :side:



Vader might have destroyed Michaels in a tag match, but it wasn't in the main event at a PPV for the title. Plenty of champs have lost non-Title matches only to go on and win the match when it actually matters. This is a different animal entirely. And Taker never lost the title in a squash match to my knowledge. And Khali won the WHC in a battle Royal on Raw or Smackdown, he never squashed Cena to win the title in the main event of a PPV. In fact, didn't Cena make Khali tap AND pin him for the first time ever?

Yea, what Lesnar did last night was historic. Nothing else I can think of in the modern era of wrestling (aka anything from 1990 or so on) comes close to what happened last night. Amazing.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I guess NWO is a lock for your top 10 PPV's of 2006, Cal - which I totally didn't see coming 8*D

You know what else I didn't see coming? That near ***** rating on the Angle/Taker match 8*D 8*D 8*D (then again, the match does deserve it)

And to notify on which of those two entrances you mentioned is the one that makes you feel something in your pants... I'd bet it's Taker's entrance 8*D 8*D 8*D 8*D 8*D


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Khali squashed Cena at Saturday Night's Main Event, not to win the title. But that match didn't matter and was just made to have Khali look like a threat heading into their PPV match where Cena would go on to win as usual.

I doubt the eventual plan with Lesnar is to do LOLCENAWINS.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

May we find out tonight who Brock might be facing at NOC?

I've been saying it would be Cena, and that he will win the title back lolcenawins style.

But after last night, surely they are not that stupid to go that way.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I expect it to go like this - Cena's goes on long vacation because of the demoralization he received at the hands of the beast incarnate, Brock holds the title until EC where he loses it due to the interference of a returning Cena thus a match made, Cena then goes over Brock at Mania.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*There's no way they willingly take Cena off TV for so long.*


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

No Way Out '06 is great. Orton/Rey is one of my favorite Orton matches and Angle/Taker is my MOTY for '06. Also Tatanka was on a pretty solid run at that time.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

LOL if the plan all along is to have Cena win the belt back from Lesnar.

My only gripe is this:

How can a man destroy Cena on two separate occasions (one being the most shockingly lopsided main event of all time) AND end The Streak in convincing fashion, yet he had trouble/needed help beating Hunter and Punk?!? Fuck me sideways that makes no sense. Oh well, at least they finally got it right with Lesnar. Better late than never, I guess.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Seabs said:


> *There's no way they willingly take Cena off TV for so long.*


This is ofc If Brock works every PPV until then. Time will tell.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

The Lady Killer said:


> How can a man destroy Cena on two separate occasions (one being the most shockingly lopsided main event of all time) AND end The Streak in convincing fashion, yet he had trouble/needed help beating Hunter and Punk?!? Fuck me sideways that makes no sense. Oh well, at least they finally got it right with Lesnar. Better late than never, I guess.


WWE basically have no notion of characters. It keeps changing in the context of what they want to do that day to catch interest. It's a wrestling thing, I guess.

One of the reasons I tend to enjoy new acts a lot is because their characters haven't been stretched out to fill 50 different roles yet and it allows me to buy into things he (she?) does and not question it.

Meh, I'd like an overarching tone to each personality than just whatever alignment they're chosen to fill for that stretch of time. Sometimes, sense is sacrificed because it doesn't fit with the direction they want to go in, and those times it can't be helped. But most often, they just don't know what direction they want to go in and that can be a bit of a pain.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Lady Killer said:


> LOL if the plan all along is to have Cena win the belt back from Lesnar.
> 
> My only gripe is this:
> 
> How can a man destroy Cena on two separate occasions (one being the most shockingly lopsided main event of all time) AND end The Streak in convincing fashion, yet he had trouble/needed help beating Hunter and Punk?!? Fuck me sideways that makes no sense. Oh well, at least they finally got it right with Lesnar. Better late than never, I guess.


The way I try to rationalize (which isn't all that great) is Lesnar was at less than 100% for those matches. However when he returned this year he was back at his peak. Now he's back to being an indestructible monster. The hole in hat thought process though, is that Lesnar still gave Cena the beating of a lifetime at ER 2012, but then couldn't do it to Trips in three matches, or Punk.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That sums it up pretty well. I'd just appreciate a bit of consistency. It's one thing to be an armchair booker but fuck some of these decisions simply require a morsel of common sense.

And not pushing people like Cesaro because they want to focus on Reigns? Holy fuck if that is true. Since when can you only push one guy at a time? It's like they get people over (have Cesaro win the battle royale and develop a rapport with fans) and then say "oh fuck that's working we better stop." If they fear Reigns' popularity/potential is that fragile then perhaps they should analyze the bigger picture.

Edit as much as I dislike the finish to the ER 2012 match, he still looked dominant the entire way and lost by a fluke/costly hiccup the way he did against Mir in his UFC debut despite dominating. As for the Hunter/Punk matches, I have no idea, and those matches would likely be worse upon another viewing given the big picture we know now.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

One other thing folks haven't mentioned so far was the incredible shape Lesnar was in last night. He seemingly looks better and better for each new match. The guy was so lean. ABS

One other guy I forgot about when I was mentioning opponents for Lesnar was Batista. I'm still not quite sure if the crowd can get behind him as a face, but they should be able to get behind anyone against Lesnar. 

Three matches I'd like to see go down at Night of Champions (if Lesnar works it):

*WWE World Heavyweight Championship*
Brock Lesnar (c) vs. Cesaro (Cesaro would have to attack Heyman or something)

*United States Championship*
Sheamus (c) vs. Rusev (Rusev takes the belt to free up Sheamus as a World Title challenger)

Randy Orton & Seth Rollins vs. Dean Ambrose & Roman Reigns (Ambrose gets a pinfall on Rollins)

The tag match would allow the Rollins/Ambrose feud to continue up until Hell in a Cell and keep Orton/Reigns busy in the process.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'd definitely be on board with those three matches but after last night Cesaro is nowhere close to being credible enough to challenge Lesnar. Would love to eventually see that match, though. If done right they could make Cesaro look strong and tough enough to hang with Brock.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thing is, Brock just squashed the No.1 guy in the company, Cesaro lost to RVD on a pre show.

Would love to see the match, but not sure it would fit right now. Then again, what will after what happened last night.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

The Fab Four said:


> Thing is, Brock just squashed the No.1 guy in the company, Cesaro lost to RVD on a pre show.
> 
> Would love to see the match, but not sure it would fit right now.* Then again, what will after what happened last night.*


Agreed. As Seabs mentioned last night, it was an incredibly short sighted thing to do. It was awesome but it creates a horrible precedent. Nobody should ever come close to beating Brock ever again.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Never say never. If they can make someone look that strong once they can do it again. Or run an angle where BROCK is injured and not 100% or something to even the playing field a bit.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Summerslam 2014:

Miz/Ziggler: ***1/2
Aj/Paige: ***
Rusev/Swagger: ***
Ambrose/Rollins: **** (GOAT LJ match)
Orton/Reigns: **
Cena/Lesnar: ***1/2

Not as good as last year's, but still a very good show. Top 10 SS for me.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The guy who defeats Brock will be a made man. Whether it's Reigns (most likely), Bryan, or whoever does it. I'm seeing Vince wants The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar at Wrestlemania 31. If it happens, it just better not be for the title.

Re-watched some Summerslam matches. Bumping Rusev/Swagger up to a *** and Orton/Reigns to a **1/2. I'm still very "meh" on Orton/Reigns, but Rusev/Swagger went up. The selling from Rusev. I can't praise him enough. If Swagger/Rusev went a few minutes longer, it could have easily hit ***1/2 range.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Just beating Brock won't make anyone btw. It's a great advantage for that guy but it won't make them anything if the botch the follow up.*


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Honestly I cant see Bryan facing Brock at all now, people were skeptics about a Brock who had lost to Cena and HHH fighting CM Punk who is still bigger than Bryan

If Bryan beat Brock at this point or even came close, it would look silly.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*It wouldn't because of Bryan's fighting style. Might not get the match this/next year but I'm sure Brock will be around long enough for it to happen at some point and it will be amazing.*


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

At this point, they might as well not even try Lesnar/Bryan. Not only did he end the Streak, but he fucking MURDERED the nº1 guy in the company. I don't think any guy has been booked w/that much legitimacy in the last few years. Come to think of it, not Bryan or really not ANYBODY looks credible against Lesnar anymore. If there was a struggle before, now there's no chance.

That being said, Cena may be getting his rematch at NOC, but I'd be against it because... well, talking kayfabe, if Cena is any smart of a man, why even bother after what happened at SS. And because nobody really can look up to Bork anymore, they should just feed him the best guys possible. Which is why I whole-heartedly agree with Lesnar/Cesaro at NOC.

Look, I know - Lesnar ate Cena alive whereas Cesaro lost at the pre-show to RVD. But if the match between the two were to happen anyway, nobody would've expected Cesaro to win regardless. It's just a career-saving program. How would I book it? Tonight on Raw, Paul Heyman "launches" a Brock Lesnar Memorial Battle Royal where the winner gets, in his words, eaten alive by Brock at NOC. Cesaro upsets Cena and wins. There. Too lazy to think of something else .


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I think Bryan can put up a fighting chance against Lesnar. His speed can combat Lesnar's strength. Cena doesn't have the speed to combat Lesnar. Punk used his speed last year in the match with Lesnar. I think you could have the same type of match with Lesnar/Bryan. Bryan going over, though? I don't know... it'd be hard to pull off considering the match with Cena last night, which was just a 16 minute squash match where Lesnar was shown as head and shoulders above the rest.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Smitty said:


> Honestly I cant see Bryan facing Brock at all now, people were skeptics about a Brock who had lost to Cena and HHH fighting CM Punk who is still bigger than Bryan
> 
> If Bryan beat Brock at this point or even came close, it would look silly.


That's not the proper way of viewing this. Brock is still human, Brock is still fallible, Brock is still capable of OVERLOOKING an opponent. Bryan would be the absolute perfect follow up opponent for Brock. Fresh off conquering the Streak and demolishin Cena, Brock starts thinking he has all the angles covered and is infallible. And then this little bearded shrimp Daniel Bryan challenges HIM? It would be totally believable for Brock to "overlook" Bryan, and as a result Bryan gets in a good bit of offense, though failing to win.

Like I said in an earlier post, it would be super simple to accomplish. Brock starts the match off just laughing when he sees Bryan squaring off at him. Bryan charges at him a few times only to get tossed aside like an annoying fly. Brock looks at Bryan and says "you're just a little guy! What can you do?!" Bryan gets pissed, comes in with his flying knee finisher, stunning Lesnar and having him do the jelly legs sell, and they go from there with Brock taking maybe 75% of the match and Bryan working his hope spots/offense around strikes to Lesnar's head and abdomen. That would be a totally plausible match, and would work because Bryan can throw some MEAN looking strikes when he's working stiff with someone.

The best part about this story? It's real life. Read Brock's book. This exact thing happened to him in the UFC when he lost to Mir. He got cocky, overlooked him, and as a result he lost. The commentators could just sell this fact during the match, that it's obvious Brock wasn't taking Bryan seriously and as a result he isn't dominating like he did previously.

If Brock resigns with the WWE and continues past WM 31, I see no reason whatsoever for him to even drop the belt that night. They can work the match with Bryan exactly as I spelled it out but have Brock defeat Bryan in the end, Him defending only once every few months for a year is totally cool with me. However, if he doesn't resign, that same "overlooking" story can be extended all the way to Brock losing to Bryan.

As long as Bryan comes back healthy, people need to realize he isn't going away and the fans are not going to stop being 100% behind Bryan. They can try and shove other people ahead of him, but it won't work. Bryan has to have his run on top, fans won't accept anyone else if Bryan is healthy and able to fill that role. He's not a fad. He's not going away. I say that's wonderful.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm starting to see who the real Daniel Bryan fans are and who the doubters and pretenders are. Shameful.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Anyone else thinks they're gonna recreate Gurrero/Brock but with Bryan instead? Brock/Bryan at Rumble, Reigns to interfere causing Bryan to win setting up Reigns/Lesnar? WWE's already shot themselves in the foot with Reigns. By the end of the year he's gonna get Cena reactions.

Oh and Summerslam ratings:

Ziggler/Miz ***1/2
Rollins/Ambrose ***1/2
Wyatt/Jericho ***1/4
Brie/Steph **1/2
Orton/Reigns **1/2
Brock/Cena- I really don't know how to rate this one tbh.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If I had my way, Lesnar wouldn't lose the belt until WM 32. Well over a year to REALLY build someone up to challenge and defeat him, while at the same time he gets to run through countless guys and look like the monster he should have been all along after he returned in 2012.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Seabs said:


> *It wouldn't because of Bryan's fighting style. Might not get the match this/next year but I'm sure Brock will be around long enough for it to happen at some point and it will be amazing.*


You think Brock will indeed re-sign after Mania, Seabs?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Imo, Summerslam is the best PPV of the Year for the WWE. There wasn't one bad match. I found that it was a very enjoyable show from top to bottom and easily beats Mania. Brock and Cena once again delivered a match that was just unique to the situation. It's nowhere as high as their Extrme Rules classic, but it was still something damn near special to watch.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Could you guys imagine Lesnar vs. Wyatt? Brock beating the hell out of him while Bray is sitting in the corner smiling with like a busted lip and a bloody nose. :mark:


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

How about Lesnar vs. Ambrose? Lesnar keeps on beating the hell out of him and Ambrose would scream "Is that all you got?!"


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Could you guys imagine Lesnar vs. Wyatt? Brock beating the hell out of him while Bray is sitting in the corner smiling with like a busted lip and a bloody nose. :mark:


lol Bray Wyatt.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> How about Lesnar vs. Ambrose? Lesnar keeps on beating the hell out of him and Ambrose would scream "Is that all you got?!"


:mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> How about Lesnar vs. Ambrose? Lesnar keeps on beating the hell out of him and Ambrose would scream "Is that all you got?!"



If WWE would get their shit together, they could build the following guys as opponents to Brock(some would need more building than others):

1. Bryan (my favorite choice)
2. Ambrose (my second favorite choice)
3. Cesaro (my third favorite choice)
4. Sheamus
5. Cena (rubber match is gonna happen, whether it be NoC or some other time)
6. Reigns
7. Orton
8. Punk ????
9. Seth Rollins 
10. Bray Wyatt
11. Dolph Ziggler
12. Batista

I want to throw out a name like Sami Zayn, but I understand that's just dreaming on my part. No way WWE decides to build one of the most natural baby faces of the past decade and let him face the most natural heel of the last decade. Makes way too much sense and would involve them exerting time and effort into a guy who doesn't have the "look" they jizz over.

Another fun match would be vs Ziggler. You guys might laugh, but Ziggler was a champion amateur wrestler at Kent State. He can get on the mat and go. I'd love to see them work a match like the Angle/Lesnar matches.

The point is, if Lesnar resigns and wrestles say, 1 PPV every 2-3 months, there are enough guys for WWE to build up to face Lesnar. It just gonna be a matter of WWE taking a look at that list of names, and picking the one who should be the one to finally end Lesnar's reign of terror. But in the mean time, every single one of those guys, if they get into the ring and atleast put up a decent fight, they will come out looking better because atleast they didn't get squashed like Taker and Cena.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Only guys I wanna see in the ring with BROCK are Orton, Sheamus, Batista and Bryan. Would've said Cesaro but they've buried the shit out of him. Fuck everyone else.

If they wanna put Reigns over him at WM and Bork only works every other PPV until then:

NOC: beats face Orton
SVS: beats Batista
RR: beats returning Bryan
EC: defends in the chamber or defeats Sheamus


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Bryan vs. Brock is by far my #1 (somewhat realistic) dream match in WWE right now, but I doubt it's happening unless Bork ends up re-signing. And I agree with those who say that Bryan's offense is good enough to make a possible Bork match believable. When he goes with a guy who works stiff (like Sheamus), he lets it rip.

Oh, and RAW tonight in Vegas :mark: if you guys see an Asian guy wearing fraternity letters holding up a huge cutout of Ambrose's face, that'd be me


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I just rewatched Orton/Reigns. Either I've totally lost my mind or you guys have, but I think that was a damn good match. Thought it might go down on rewatch after seeing some of you shit on it, but nope, held up perfectly. Match accomplished everything it needed to, Orton did a hell of a job carrying the load and Reigns looked great at the finish. Crowd popped big for his win, so for those saying they turned on Roman you're either deaf or just being disingenuous. I would have preferred a little more shine for Roman at the start with Orton cheating to cut him off, but otherwise not much else I'd do differently for a guys first singles match on a PPV. Less is sometimes more.

Rating stays the same: ***3/4

I agree with PGSucks. Go watch Bryan's Manhattan Mayhem match with Takeshi Morishima. Shima is essentially built like a Japanese Terry Gordy, he's a big, nasty, technically sound, 300lb brawling beast, and Bryan works really snug with him and everything looks totally believable and legit. No reason to think it would be anything different vs Brock. It's not like Brock is THAT much bigger than Hunter even. Maybe 10-15lbs at most. No one complained about their WM 30 match not being realistic.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't see why BROCK wouldn't keep resigning. Guy has the best job imaginable. Gets paid millions to work 30 days a year (only a handful of which involve any physicality) and he gets the privilege of destroying everyone. :brock

Edit I was there live and Reigns was definitely audibly booed towards the end and people around me were vocal about him and his "3 moves of doom" and "same old shit."


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

The Lady Killer said:


> Edit I was there live and Reigns was definitely audibly booed towards the end and people around me were vocal about him and his "3 moves of doom" and "same old shit."


Lots of Roman hate around me too. Hopefully they pull the rei(g)ns back a bit on his push


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Was Orton getting cheered? Because every time he posed, it looked like the crowd reacted mostly positive with a few boos in the background.

Keep the Reigns boos coming! If he gets cheered, WWE will keep pushing him while doing the same 5 moves and the main event scene for the next year will not look pretty at all.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Add Henry to that list of people I wanna see Brock face and subtract Ziggler. I think he'd get absolutely murdered.  Plus I don't think his offense would be believable enough.

RAW is in Vegas tonight!?!? Omg please give me RAW Roulette! When's the last time they did that?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yes he was heavily cheered, especially when doing his pose. Lots of people around me (and myself included) were doing his pose along with him. Crowd exploded for the RKO.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Lesnar/Bryan, Lesnar/Ambrose, Lesnar/Cesaro, Lesnar/Orton and Lesnar/Wyatt are matches I want to see. :mark:

I re-watched Reigns/Orton. Bumped it up slightly, still not all that high on it. **1/2 the RKO was sick though. I thought I heard boos on my stream for Reigns. It's pretty much inevitable he gets Cena reactions by the end of the year at this point unless WWE stops pushing him so hard, so fast. Let it become natural.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

ATF said:


> *At this point, they might as well not even try Lesnar/Bryan. Not only did he end the Streak, but he fucking MURDERED the nº1 guy in the company.* I don't think any guy has been booked w/that much legitimacy in the last few years. Come to think of it, not Bryan or really not ANYBODY looks credible against Lesnar anymore. If there was a struggle before, now there's no chance.
> 
> That being said, Cena may be getting his rematch at NOC, but I'd be against it because... well, talking kayfabe, if Cena is any smart of a man, why even bother after what happened at SS. And because nobody really can look up to Bork anymore, they should just feed him the best guys possible. Which is why I whole-heartedly agree with Lesnar/Cesaro at NOC.
> 
> Look, I know - Lesnar ate Cena alive whereas Cesaro lost at the pre-show to RVD. But if the match between the two were to happen anyway, nobody would've expected Cesaro to win regardless. It's just a career-saving program. How would I book it? Tonight on Raw, Paul Heyman "launches" a Brock Lesnar Memorial Battle Royal where the winner gets, in his words, eaten alive by Brock at NOC. Cesaro upsets Cena and wins. There. Too lazy to think of something else .


*:what?

So you're saying because Brock was so destructive last night that essentially nobody should even try to face him now because they have no chance.*


The Fab Four said:


> You think Brock will indeed re-sign after Mania, Seabs?


*Isn't he signed up to 32 now after last year? Anyway he's got an amazing deal to get paid stupid money to essentially only wrestle 3-4 matches per year and then just show up once in a while to film an interview and stand beside Heyman while he does all the work. Heyman's talked about how great Brock thinks the deal is too so as long as it stays that way I don't see any reason why he'd drop out as physically he's still immense.*


The Lady Killer said:


> I don't see why BROCK wouldn't keep resigning. Guy has the best job imaginable. Gets paid millions to work 30 days a year (only a handful of which involve any physicality) and he gets the privilege of destroying everyone. :brock
> 
> Edit I was there live and Reigns was definitely audibly booed towards the end and people around me were vocal about him and his "3 moves of doom" and "same old shit."


*I think in the modern era of live crowds being heavily dominated by smarks cheering heels that live crowd reaction isn't the best metric for measuring how over someone actually is. Sadly the network has also wiped out the best metric as well so other than merch sales and putting someone at the top of the non Cena tour it's really tough to tell these days just how much of a draw an individual wrestler is. 

Reigns isn't doing anything wrong right now but the booking is failing him somewhat. Orton was a terrible opponent to work with as his first singles feud. He needs a hot heel who can work a great brawl with him. In other words he needs to beat Rusev soon and have some great sub 10 minute slugfests with him. Or Cesaro but he's so cold right now. Obviously the perfect feud was already there for him but they're so far stuck up in their own assess that they still think Orton has more momentum than Rollins does. 

Also I'm not sure how much of a knock it is on Reigns that his moveset is limited as it is on the booking. It's pretty common that WWE restrict signature spots to just a few and get them into every match for repetition purposes so crowds know to react to certain spots from certain guys. They got that sequence off the hot tag as a babyface nailed down perfectly and that being his routine comeback is fine. The limited moveset comes back to my point about babyfaces not getting proper shine at the start of matches. Point is how many of you actually know Reigns can only do these moves and that the booking isn't restricting him to that moveset rather than him being restricted to just that moveset by his own shortcomings? You don't. If you watch Bryan's stuff from when he was really breaking out in those Shield tags throughout his singles run his moveset was pretty routine too. He made the same comeback on every show too. Suicide dive, dropkick into the corner, top rope dropkick, kicks to the chest, yes lock. Obviously I'm not saying Bryan can't do more than that but when he was becoming a main event singles guy they limited his moveset down to just they key signature spots and got them into every match of his. 

They're really not helping him by suddenly throwing him at the deep end working longer formulaic matches on his own and the downside of not having him work enough singles matches on TV or even House Shows when he was with The Shield is showing now. WWE are so bad at exposing the weaknesses of the acts they supposedly want to protect and let shine. He needs to be paired with guys who have great matches that get great live reactions to make his matches look better than maybe he can make them look on his own until he's at that point himself.*


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

A Lesnar/Ziggler match similar to the Lesnar/Flair match worked on Raw '02 would be pretty cool. I know he won't do them, but Brock's TV match catalog is nearly perfect. Every TV match that guy was in was good. And sadly because of limited dates we may never see Lesnar/Sheamus, Lesnar/Wyatt, Lesnar/Ambrose, Lesnar/Orton, Lesnar/Cesaro, etc. So many awesome match ups but not much room for them.

I really hope they can keep Lesnar's feuds interesting if he's not going to be on TV. It's hard to care when he's going to be on Raw 1/4 shows a month, if that. It'd be one thing if this were the 1980s and weekly shows weren't really a big thing, but having a Raw without a champion for an extended period of time sounds disappointing.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

The only guys I'd want to see against Lesnar now:

1) DANIEL FUCKING BRYAN- POTENTIAL ***** NO DOUBT





2) Sheamus- Wanted this match for a while now.
3) Batista- Not match quality, but a dream match for me when I was younger and it would draw.
4) Ziggler- Super-Bump-Mania

The only one that I would want to take the title is obvious. They could easily have Bryan win by some creative rollup after surviving Lesnar, then he can win the rematch after the knee. I feel Bryan v. Brock could eclipse Punk v. Brock.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'd rather see a well built DA BIG GUY than Batista against Lesnar.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Brye said:


> I'd rather see a well built DA BIG GUY than Batista against Lesnar.


I wish, but they :berried him six feet under.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Getting a new title belt tonight!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Curious how Jerry Springer they can make this Bella Twins storyline.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Didn't noticed on the first watch but Rusev was still selling the shit out of the ankle during the 2nd camel clutch, just watch his face. I love this guy.

http://gfycat.com/DemandingUnripeKagu


----------



## RATED R RULES (May 27, 2007)

I think very Jerry Springer. Say Cena has been boning Brie and it's a full set. Cena and Bryan to get involved somehow and it could be the worst ever. No more promos please.

How can they be treating sexual chocolate like this? Seriously get him back as a monster heel even if in the mid card

Re-watched Brock vs Cena from yesterday and gonna stick a ***3/4 on it


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

A) No Holds Barred
B) Falls Count Anywhere
C) No Disqualification

Those are all the same damn matches! :lol Either way this rematch should be awesome.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Would a No Holds Barred match mean Ambrose could piledrive Rollins? :side:


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

Just got the network using a VPN. Any suggestions? Looking for some WCW stuff in particular, seeing as I have basically seen zero of their PPV's in general.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

WWE Network exclusive documentary on the SHIELD coming on Wednesday. :mark: Looks awesome.



obby said:


> Just got the network using a VPN. Any suggestions? Looking for some WCW stuff in particular, seeing as I have basically seen zero of their PPV's in general.


Big fan of Great American Bash '96 and you can't go wrong with Beach Blast '92 (or the majority of '92 from what I hear).


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think I just saw PGSucks.

EDIT: Hmm, so there IS a better wrestler in this world than Tomohiro Ishii.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

And Ambrose/Rollins top their match from last night. Jesus, what a match.

The pop when Ambrose returns is going to be epic and the HIAC match with Rollins is going to be fucking fantastic. Could go down as one of the all-time great Cell matches, imo. THIS program has everything that DESERVES a HIAC match rather than just throwing two people feuding in it.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

**** for Ambrose/Rollins tonight. Guys tore it up and glad they got the main event. A top 10 match of the year no doubt, maybe even top 5.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

****1/4 for Ambrose/Rollins. Best raw match of 2014?


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Stars don't do Ambrose vs. Rollins justice. By FAR, the Best WWE feud has had in a long time. Really looking forward to the Hell in a cell match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

RAW thoughts:

- Steph trolling all of us was awesome. Segment with the Bellas was meh because of their acting, but it worked.

- Black Show vs. Rowan & Harper was pretty sweet. BODY SLAMS and KO punches. Wish this was a tag title feud though.

"What? It's for charity." :lol Love Ambrose.

- Heyman's promo was GODLY per usual. New belt doesn't look much different but I'm glad it's just one now. Interesting to see if Lesnar will work next month and how many more appearances he'll make.

- Miz vs. Ziggler has the PERFECT scenario to be a really good match and totally different from their first two encounters, but the ending kind of screwed it up and now we'll probably see it again. Would've preferred to see Ziggler go over here.

- Cesaro got a win!!! I didn't watch the match though. 

- 6-man was WAY more fun than it should've been. "Ryback Rules" chants in Vegas were crazy. That finishing stretch was mad good. (Y) Who the hell is Sheamus gonna defend the U.S. Title against??? Orton vs. Van Dam on Smackdown sounds good.

- I missed Usos vs. Dust Bros because I had some serious diarrhea but wow, Usos lost??? Surprised. Guess we'll see this or a 3-way with Black Show at Night of Champions?

- Mark Henry LAID Rusev out with hardly any opposition. Oh my damn. Not sure what they're gonna do with this if he's still in the tag team. I WANT SHEAMUS TO FEUD WITH RUSEV DAMMIT!

- Ambrose vs. Rollins, Chapter II. Falls Count Anywhere. Totally awesome match. So much fun with Rollins bumping his ass off and the crowd LOSING THEIR SHIT at every turn. Powerbomb chair spot was sweet and the superplex was nicely executed. No surprise spots or major shit and another screwjob, so you know they're still saving something for down the line. Bare bones style street fight with an ending that may put Ambrose "on the shelf" for a little bit. Hopefully to build towards Hell in a Cell. Anyway, this was awesome. *** 3/4

They built nothing towards Night of Champions.  Guess it's a good thing they have 5 weeks.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

xdoomsayerx said:


> ****1/4 for Ambrose/Rollins. Best raw match of 2014?


Cesaro vs Cena gets that award from me. 

And yeah, top 5 match if you only watch WWE


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Ambrose/Rollins gets ****1/4 from me as well. Close to a ****1/2. I think it's the TV MOTY and I don't think anything else will touch it.

Their HIAC match...I legit can't fucking wait.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Well that was one hell of an effort that Ill throw 4 and a quarter stars at initially making it to my wwe top 10 this year. The intensity and spontaneous nature was there and the spots were well placed, well reacted to and well executed. Didnt even mind Kane's involvment, just added that much more to the sympathy for Brose however that has been possible. What were those blocks anyway? looked like either styro or protein powder. On a side note, I havent seen Lesnar this damn happy since all the way back to the mariachi segment ten years ago. Guy seems to even truely be enjoying himself. Probably because he is arguably at the pinnacle of his career and 100 percent for the first time in a decade. He said to TMZ he is just getting started so hey maybe MORE YEARS OF BROCK. great for him and us.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I could watch Ambrose vs Rollins feud go on forever. This shit has been amazing. ****1/4 for the match tonight. I loved it.

Also marked for the Ryback chants.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Got to see Ambrose and Rollins tear the house down in person. Fuck, that was :trips5 :trips5 :trips5 :trips5


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Lucky you. That was a really fun match, not unlike their match at SummerSlam...just much better only having one guy interfere instead of 25.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

My bitching about the lumberjack stipulation yesterday was silly in hindsight, especially after tonight's match.

And if (or when) they have a HIAC match....:woolcock :woolcock


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Cheated my way through the show into the last three matches since they interested me the most and got done with them.
> 
> Orton vs Reigns - ★★★ (Randy did about as well as one could expect him carrying the green as goose shit Reigns. Match is not all that after all but it's decent and just about all one could ask for since Reigns is no good at all and offers about nothing other than his 4-5 moves. The Samoan Drop from the top rope was cool, though. Finishing stretch was cool with the powerslam & RKO counters but Reigns wins as expected. Now can you please get Randy the fuck away from him, turn him face and put him in there with Lesnar next?)


C2D, I thought that Orton's level of crispness and surgical precision was at an all-time high on Sunday night. He really is peerless in that regard. His execution was just unreal. Superplex was a thing of a beauty, and even when he did that backdrop out of the sleeper. Usually stuff like that looks so sloppy, which in moments like that is not a criticism, because there's nothing wrong with a move like that not being clean. But I appreciated Orton's cleanliness on literally everything that night. Everything just looked so fucking crisp. I swear to God, Rusev's "super athlete" (complete with Rusev's voice :lol ) quote played in my head, when I watched that RKO.

Also, I've been a Reigns critic in some regards, but I do have to say that he's actually a really good seller. I mean, aside from no-selling at the end, obviously. But I like the way that he made those foot stomps seem like deathly pain, and I like his coughing and everything, 'cause somehow he really does make his face look sick and deathly when he's selling that as well.

Also loved that little aggressive moment when out of nowhere, he went right back for the sleeper hardcore, before burning out again.

Really good match. 




WrestlingOracle said:


> Obviously Mania is up there and Brian/Bray was the better match because Dbry pulled out so many stops but that has got to be one if not THE best individual effort of Bray Wyatt and Jericho bringing that selling man. Sure, there were some flaws in that but still solid and man that visual of Jericho going for the Lionsault and Bray spider walking up and then saying "you cannot hurt me Chris I am already dead! cementing that implied demon possession while Chris cowers to the corner. Man, that has got to be one of the best visuals inside of a match in recent memory.


If only stupid Lawler didn't talk about Bray doing that right before he did that. Though actually, I doubt Lawler knew that it was coming, so probably was just a weird coincidence.

I loved how in the last Wyatt/Jericho match at MITB, Wyatt just yelled at Jericho and smiled like a lunatic, getting more and more amped up, as Jericho hit him. I love little moments like that. 

Someone else pointed out that they think that Wyatt's matches are better when he's by himself, without Rowan and Harper there. I don't know if that's true, but he does seem more aggressive and sinister when he's by himself for some reason. It's like he tends to live the character and moment more.


Re-watched SS again tonight, and it still was an awesome show, from top to bottom. Also, Lesnar/Cena SS > Lesnar/Cena ER. It's weird, because ER had more variety, but I think I appreciated the repeated, precise, gameplan of SS more. Lesnar is just completely untouchable as a performer when he's at the top of his game.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I usually write too much, so I'll keep this bare minimum.*


*Ziggler/Miz* - there's not much more insipid than an unmotivated Ziggler performance. There's nothing more annoying than complete no-selling (fameasser). Directionless, boring and lacked any payoff to the Moneymaker shtick

*Paige/AJ* - well, it was better than their last PPV match. Rumoured to have 15 minutes, but I'm glad they kept this at 5. Stopped them from being exposed.

*Rusev/Swagger* - the story behind this is banal, yet the match was effective. Nothing was overly good (Rusev's selling was pretty great, though) yet it accomplished its task and I had no complaints sitting through it. No comment on the post-match angle, as I enjoy having normal blood pressure levels.


*Rollins/Ambrose* - horrendous. Say what you want about the lumberjack involvement, crowd brawling and the stipulation, in general, but the work to start was a sloppy mess and not close in delivering the hate it should have. Ambrose did not look anywhere close to how he has the past couple months and was visibly flubbing a lot of his moves. He tried compensating, and I guess it worked to some degree, but Rollins would still be positioning for the prior move. Case in point, Rollins had his legs tied up and Ambrose's hands slipped. Ambrose goes for a yank of the nose, and Rollins still has his legs tied and in the air like a goof. Ambrose fighting the lumberjacks is character and fine. Heel lumberjacks taking punches and going "ey's, you's go back in there and fight" without delivering a come-uppance is stupid. Harper took a fucking baseball slide only to gleefully and carefully get Ambrose back in. Cesaro took a punch to the face and stood there. Heel lumberjacks are meant to beat the babyface down to create more tension in him overcoming the odds. The babyface lumberjacks are then meant to save him and a brawl ensues for a few minutes. That has been the rinse-repeat booking since inception. Here? Nope. When we do get a brawl, it's after Goldust standing up to Kane and everyone going HAAI HOOOOO in a Monty Pythonesque fashion, throwing all logic into the black hole where the booking team evidently nest.


*Wyatt/Jericho* - I cannot think of a single good performance that Jericho's delivered over the past couple years. Over the past three matches, I think Wyatt has been exposed, as well. Given a working formula, he's a great hand (Bryan at RR, Shield/Wyatts and the house shows I've seen him in) but, outside of that direction, he's directionless. He's still young, can cut a good promo (when the story has point, not that I saw one made in this feud) and has the audience behind him so I won't rag him out. There's quite a bit of upside to him, and the world seemed his oyster four months ago, but it's no longer visible on the surface, anymore. The Cena/Wyatt LMS killed Wyatt for me, but his Jericho/Wyatt feud is doing no favours, either.


*Steph/Brie* - I don't have a single reason to support Brie, and the WWE has made little case against that. Neither are good wrestlers, but Steph's a helluva worker. Entertained, I guess, especially by HHH wildly bumping off a Brie slide :dance


*Reigns/Orton* - these two may have a great 8 minute match in them. These two had a bland 15 minute match. Coming out of this, and reading the comments, I'm not buying two things: 1) Reigns will ever be credible to beat Lesnar and 2) Orton carried this. The booking completely deflated Reigns as a monster. Here's a guy who had decimating performances at Survivor Series and in the Royal Rumble match, being made an errand boy to Orton. As much as the WWE may push him as a big threat, he isn't, and the crowd are apathetic towards him. Seabs made a great point about matches lacking shine segments (babyface having a dominating start, so when the heel has a cutoff, you can work the babyface comeback). Lesnar/Cena's made sense, in that Cena fought valiantly until Brock took over and Cena never stood a chance, again. Rusev/Swagger had its shine before the match started, and someway into it. Good job there. Here? Orton just goes vanilla with rest holds and offence that goes on far, far too long without ever being interesting. They had a couple nifty counters to Reigns' big spots but that's staple Orton booking in keeping him strong without having to kick out of a finisher. Not that I'd complain about that, and is reason why I say these guys have a good short match in them. I'm not much of a fan of the NJPW roster, outside of a couple guys, but the G1 Climax was a perfectly timed tourney in highlighting their guys as _great_ wrestlers. If those guys had gone 20/25/30 minutes instead of 10, they'd have looked lost, more often than not. But they didn't, and a quarter of my top 20 is from that tourney. Moral of the story: book to your wrestlers' strengths, not have them wrestle to the booking.


*Lesnar/Cena* - I loved this. Bryan may have gone over Cena clean last year, and Lesnar may have beaten the streak, but decimating Cena for 16 minutes is something else, entirely. For my money, I'd take Casas/Rush as the better squash but, fairly, they were of two different entities (workrate against atmosphere). I believe that this going so long, and Brock savouring the time, was the right move. If Cena lost in a few minutes, there was always an interpretation of how Cena was taken off guard (as he was with the first F5). However, with a slow build to the finish there's no denying that Cena had his ass handed to him. There was more than enough Brock facials and quirks from both him and Heyman to keep this interesting. Cena bumped like a ragdoll and sold as well as you could ever hope him to in that environ. I find this a lot harder to rate and list than Casas/Rush, but I wouldn't expect this to not get MotYC love from others.


*Overall thoughts* - one match show, but I had hints of enjoyment outside of that match. It wasn't plodding and mindnumbing like a lot of the weekly shows or previous PPVs have been, but this was still very short of what the "biggest party of the summer" should have been.


* this didn't happen


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I almost neglected to mention, but HENRY. Rusev and Lana have been gold with helping get faces over, and with hot crowds every week, this feud should rule. :mark:

Six-man and Cesaro vs. Swagger were fun tonight too IMO


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Rollins/Ambrose feud is top notch.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Any hint on Raw regarding a possible Brock match, or was i right and it's Cena?


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Cena addresses universe next week. No other mention.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Spoiler: YES













I was on RAW :lmao :lmao (I promise I don't look that bad in person...all the time :side



And I'm pretty sure they're doing another Brock/Cena match. I'm not worried at all about Cena winning the title back, although I'm not sure if Bork's gonna look quite as dominant again.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ambrose/Rollins II. FUCK YES what a match. Admitedly they didn't give much use to the FCA stipulation, but fuck it, they absolutely destroyed each other and gave it all there. Personally, I'm giving it big hype - have it at ****1/4 and just edging out Shield/Evolution ER as the 5th best MOTY imo, and 2nd best TV MOTY behind Cena/Cesaro.

Also, no mention of who's coming to face Brock other than it's possibly Cena again, giving how next week he's addressing his situation after the SS squash.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I don't want the rubber match so soon, but who else is there at this time?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Goku said:


> I don't want the rubber match so soon, but who else is there at this time?


Exactly. I don't want a rematch so quick, esp after what happened at SS, but what else can they do?

Not have Brock defend? And I'm sure as fuck don't want Cena to just win the belt back so soon, esp after just being 'squashed'.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Y'all are going PARANOID w/this Cena situation. The WWE isn't stupid enough to give the title back to Cena after Lesnar ate him alive at SummerSlam. Plus, even though I made a bold statement saying how it's not easy to buy into it, they want and they NEED to do Lesnar/Bryan. When I said that after Lesnar's strong booking they might've as well not even tried it, I meant in the way that I don't think it would be easy to buy a Bryan victory; that being said, I still want to see it because it has so much Lesnar/Eddie or even better written all over it it's not even funny.

Speaking of Bryan, according to LOLDIRTSHEETZ, Bryan is ready to go by Survivor Series time THIS YEAR. Not sure if crazy thoughts or just crazy reality. If that's the case, why not have him triumphantly return BY..................
TEAMING WITH HIS WIFE BRIE AGAINST HHH AND STEPH?! 8*D

C'mon, everyone remembers how well Rock & Cena/Awesome Truth worked 8*D 8*D 8*D


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Upload of one of the best matches of the year. IMHO:

*John Cena vs Cesaro (Raw 02.17.2014)*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Forget about all this Cena talk, Cesaro got a win last night! They're building HIM as a challenger! :lol


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

If Bryan is good to go then he should get the surprise Rumble entrance and win. He is the only credible threat - if any. He beat Cena clean and relinquished the title due to injury. 

A win over Brock and a good follow through will cement a new star. Bryan may not need that, and who knows what future he has, but Reigns is treading dead water. Which other potential standout has had good enough booking to face Brock? I don't see any. Effectively booking Ambrose and him going ham in the Rumble may work but that's a massive step down going by current accomplishment.

Cena doesn't need to enact his rematch clause now. Why would he? Kayfabe, he knew he would face a monster but he wouldn't have expected to be beat so soundly. Give him an extended feud which plays to his doubts and his strive to overcome himself. That frees up Brock, and allows a reset for Cena to become credible again. In an ideal world, Sheamus and Cesaro would be strongly booked midcard champs. Cesaro wouldn't have the RVD blemishes and could simply state Cena has lost it. They booked Cesaro close to Cena's level before, so a feud between them doesn't hurt Cena too much. Besides, he gets the win in the end (having lost prior due to lack of focus playing up to his self inequity).

How do you have Cena let the US title go without a loss is another story. X-Division Title styled booking/surrender at Destination X to face the world champ comes to mind. Don't even need to rebrand a PPV for it to work. Night of Champions can finally live up to its namesake.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Ambrose would be perfect imo. He'll be coming off red hot following HIAC with Seth. Have him busied with the authority until the Rumble and let him get the win off an early number.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bryan already had his star making performance though. I don't think mighty Vince will allow him to have another one. Face it. The Roman Empire is upon us.

Anyone else like Swagger's promo last night?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Bit of a quandry, though. When Bryan comes back he should be the immediate challenger for the title. Either push his return back to a later date or he has to go over. Going over Brock disallows a new star. Going over the new star undermines that push. Losing to either relegates him and is stupid. No if ands or buts, the crowd will turn on Reigns if he faces Bryan and wins.

Damned if you do or don't, it seems.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Bryan can face Lesnar and lose with the same authority screwing him storyline, leading to a gimmick rematch with Triple H at Mania 31 to end the authority angle once and for all.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao at Ambrose on Raw. "What? It's for charity!" *smashes the bucket right into Seth's nose*. 

Wonder if the Orton/Flair backstage thingy will go anywhere? They finally decided to stick Flair with Orton to get him on TV again? Wouldn't be my first pick for Flair, but maybe they can run an angle with Flair motivating Randy to become the Legend Killer again (Orton mentioned that name on Raw to Ric) and actually like, give a shit in the ring?

I think everyone is forgetting ONE big challenger for Brock. They've wrestled before way back in 2002, and it could happen again on PPV soon! So who is it? Well, he's apparently just left TNA... BULLY RAY!!!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> I think everyone is forgetting ONE big challenger for Brock. They've wrestled before way back in 2002, and it could happen again on PPV soon! So who is it? Well, he's apparently just left TNA... BULLY RAY!!!


As long as it isn't The fucking Big Show again, id be for that lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I still wanna see a Lesnar/Big Show match. But one where Show isn't injured and they have a proper match.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

Rah said:


> I usually write too much, so I'll keep this bare minimum.*
> 
> 
> *Ziggler/Miz* - there's not much more insipid than an unmotivated Ziggler performance. There's nothing more annoying than complete no-selling (fameasser). Directionless, boring and lacked any payoff to the Moneymaker shtick
> ...


*Miz actually got his hands down to block the move. I thought he took it took and just popped right back up until I saw a gif on PWO I think and someone showing that he didn't actually take the move which actually made it a pretty sweet spot. But of course the commentators were probably too buys calling Dolph ugly to actually tell that story. 

Quoting the whole post btw because this was a great review and it's worth someone else mentioning that the Lumberjack was stupid. *


funnyfaces1 said:


> Bryan already had his star making performance though. I don't think mighty Vince will allow him to have another one. Face it. The Roman Empire is upon us.
> 
> Anyone else like Swagger's promo last night?


*If they want him to be a regular guy at the top of the card then still need to push him like one. The whole idea that one win makes someone is so stupid. "Whoever ends the streak will be made for life". "Whoever beats Brock now will be made for life". No they won't. Nobody is made in an instant. It's a long cycle that requires someone to be consistently booked as the top guy. People rag on Cena for always winning but there's a reason for it, reinforcement that he's the #1 guy. Bryan won one Wrestlemania main event. If he just works upper midcard matches from now on then it did nothing for him besides being a moment. The same if Reigns beats Brock at 31. They still need to keep giving him accomplishments and long title reigns at the top of cards for him to be viewed as a top star and not just someone who was once being presented as a top star. 

As for who can beat Brock, I'm not being funny but pretty much anyone not already made like Cena and Hunter can with the right build. There's still a LOT of time between now and Mania to get someone ready. All you need is for them to never lose and work hot programs with hot opponents. It will never happen but you COULD debut Sami Zayn soon and spend every week building him as the guy who dethrones Brock at Mania. It'd be super fast tracked and I'm only really using it as an example to reinforce my point that just about anyone can be built up to face Brock regardless of where they stand today. 

If Reigns isn't having great workrate matches then as much as this thread will probably hate it, it doesn't matter as long as his comebacks keep getting big pops. Now for that to have the best chance he needs to be against a heel not working a long and dull control segment that actually has some momentum and heel heat. What they want is for Reigns to be someone who can sell subscriptions and renewals for the next decade, not someone who can have **** matches every month. Believe it or not the two don't go hand in hand. 

Personally I'd be building all 3 of Reigns, Bryan and Ambrose to be ready to beat Brock and then pull the trigger on who is hottest at the time. Plan A should be Reigns because he's the guy and the only reason to pull him would be if he's only getting lukewarm reactions at best. Guys don't become global megastars over night. He's only just emerged as a guy on his own and his only feud has been Orton. Give him time before you write him off. I'd be fine with Bryan or Ambrose but I just don't know if they're the right long term pick to build your company around in this PG era. Are they really the guys you have do all of Cena's out of the ring work? For me they're the support star to THE guy. However, THE guy doesn't have to be technically better than them, he just has to move business and be a good corporate guy. 

Regardless of what happens I'll be shocked if Reigns doesn't get the shot. Regardless. WWE are all in on him and when they're all in on something they rarely change their minds because they're stubborn when it comes to the really big things. Bryan will never be that guy as good as he is because it's still WWE and their mentality regarding THE guy is still the same even if their mentality regarding the other top guys has altered. *


----------



## The True Believer (Oct 19, 2013)

You know what match I'd love to see? Cesaro vs Rusev.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You know what match I'd love to see? BARRETT vs Rusev. :barrett :lana

Oh btw, Barrett is apparently coming back in November/December, and said he'd like to feud with BRAY :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> You know what match I'd love to see? BARRETT vs Rusev. :barrett :lana
> 
> Oh btw, Barrett is apparently coming back in November/December, and said he'd like to feud with BRAY :mark:


Bray Vs Barrett? That seems like an... incredibly odd pairing . Barrett would need to have a complete gimmick overhaul (again :lmao) imo to make it work.

Oh well, at least we get a few more months without him .

Think I'm gonna dive into another PPV Ramble. I'd done an ECW show. I've done a SD show. Look out Raw, here I come!

Can't believe there were *16* PPV's in 2006. Is that the most they've had in 1 year? Imagine if they still did the UK ones too lol!

Oh and shameless plug to my blog, the non wrestling one :side:. Put up a written article on my top 10 games. Read it. Love it (OR ELSE) and I dunno, spread it around . Working on a game review video for the end of the week too. And of course Wrestling View is getting WWR Classic Episode 2 tomorrow . CONTENT~! LOTS OF IT~! YEY~!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I also thought that Bray Wyatt vs. Bad News Barrett sounded incredibly odd at first, but then I took a BRAY FUCKING WYATT VS. BAD NEWS FUCKING BARRETT to my smarkbrains :mark:

Yes, I believe 2006 was the year w/the most PPV's they've had ever. And don't forget D2D, RR and WM - which means you've done two interpromotionals, two ECW and one SD. 

If you're heading to Raw, end the suspense already - go over to that one show in Toronto that year.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I am indeed watching UNFORGIVEN 2006.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

RUNNING SAID I'M RUNNING I'M RUNNING I'M COMING AT YOU GUNNING

Interested to hear your thoughts on Kane/Umaga and the triple Main Event (HIAC, Lita/Trish and TLC) .


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Goku said:


> I don't want the rubber match so soon, but who else is there at this time?


Good thing it won't be a rubber match since Rollins has won both.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

#ROOT said:


> Wonder if the Orton/Flair backstage thingy will go anywhere? They finally decided to stick Flair with Orton to get him on TV again? Wouldn't be my first pick for Flair, but maybe they can run an angle with Flair motivating Randy to become the Legend Killer again (Orton mentioned that name on Raw to Ric) and actually like, give a shit in the ring?


That sounds :mark: worthy. Flair manages him as he turns on the Authority and goes his separate way since they're doing him no favors. Not sure if being the Legend Killer works since there are no legends left and he's a legend himself now.

------------

Will catch the rest of Raw in a minute, specially the 6 man tag and FCA.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

After re watching Summerslam, I must say that my perception has changed on a few of the matches that occurred in terms of match quality.

*Ziggler vs Miz* ***3/4
*Paige vs Aj Lee* ***
*Rusev vs Swagger* ****
*Ambrose vs Rollins* ****1/4
*Wyatt vs Jericho* ***
*McMahon vs Bella* *1/4
*Orton vs Reigns* **1/2
*Lesnar vs Cena* ***

To give some quick thoughts, I wasn't let down by any of the matches here. Even Steph vs Brie, since I was expecting a horrid match of epic proportions. Instead of that, we got a good effort from Steph here and they were able to fill in the time they had. It wasn't a good match by any means, but it went above my expectations and I give them credit for that. I still think people are too harsh on the Orton/Reigns match, which, in my opinion, was the first decent one on one match Reigns has had in his career so far. That's quite an accomplishment for someone who is as bad in the ring as he is. I was expecting a worse match out of Jericho and Wyatt, and I honestly have no clue why. Normally after having a not so good match the first time, the second match is going to turn out better, and it ended up doing so. And Lesnar/Cena could have been lower, but Brock's incredible storytelling ability made the beatdown on Cena a lot better than it should have been. For a long one sided match, Lesnar/Cena showed how it should be done. 

The psychology and storytelling in the Rusev/Swagger match was so well done. Both guys deserve a shit load of credit and I hope Swagger continues to be used well by WWE (although last night indicated that might not be the case). I feel that this match in the long run is going to be overlooked by many because they won't pay much attention to the minor details that these two did so well in the match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> That sounds :mark: worthy. Flair manages him as he turns on the Authority and goes his separate way since they're doing him no favors. Not sure if being the Legend Killer works since there are no legends left and he's a legend himself now.
> 
> ------------
> 
> Will catch the rest of Raw in a minute, specially the 6 man tag and FCA.



Randy Orton, 2014 Legend Killer run:

Randy comes down the ramp and commits seppuku with a 2 foot samurai sword right in the middle of the ring. 

Fin.

:lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I wondered too that if Orton was to return to his Legend Killer self atm, he'd have to consider suicide :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> I wondered too that if Orton was to return to his Legend Killer self atm, he'd have to consider suicide :lol


Seems like a win-win to me :side:.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Benoit took that literally. :rock4


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Back from vacation. All I have to say about Summerslam and RAW is that there are three guys who somehow managed to impress me more than Lesnar. And Lesnar was so impressive that he gave me nightmares for two straight nights. But those three guys.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Let me guess - Ambrose, Rollins and Heyman?

I don't think you followed the trend of reviewing SummerSlam yet. Haven't seen Cody in forever either.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I just can't get over that Ambrose/Rollins match last night. Sweet Jesus. :banderas

I also have to continue praising Rusev. He continued to sell the ankle last night, and sold it like a boss when Henry attacked it in the segment to allow Henry to get the upper hand. Just... fucking Rusev. So good.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Yeah, seriously. I hope we get a lot more Rusev in the future. Can't talk so sell like a god. Seems like a fair trade.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

#ROOT said:


> Bray Vs Barrett? That seems like an... incredibly odd pairing . Barrett would need to have a complete gimmick overhaul (again :lmao) imo to make it work.
> 
> Oh well, at least we get a few more months without him .
> 
> ...


That Toy Story 2 game is amazing. I remember playing the hell out of that game years ago.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

StuckInHell4-Life said:


> Yeah, seriously. I hope we get a lot more Rusev in the future. Can't talk so sell like a god. Seems like a fair trade.


Hopefully after he goes over Henry at Night of Champions he gets a US Title match and wins it.

Even better: he goes over Henry on Raw and challenges for the US Title at NOC and wins it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Yeah, I'm very interested in Rusev. Closest thing to Umaga in a while.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Back from vacation. All I have to say about Summerslam and RAW is that there are three guys who somehow managed to impress me more than Lesnar. And Lesnar was so impressive that he gave me nightmares for two straight nights. But those three guys.


Gotta be Rusev, Ambrose, and... Rollins? Not sure about the 3rd one. Unsure on your true feelings about Orton/Reigns, I just know you liked it (I think). 



Brye said:


> Yeah, I'm very interested in Rusev. Closest thing to Umaga in a while.


Perfect comparison. (Y) So many guys on the roster I wanna see him go up against. Sheamus being near the top.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

After looking through a list I keep, Ambrose/Rollins from last night barely edges out Cesaro/Cena from February as my TV match of the year thus far.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Lesnar's next confirmed dates appear to be the September 15th episode of RAW and the Night of Champions PPV on the 21st, so it looks like he's working it. Awesome.

Also, the story they're running for Ambrose is that he refused medical attention and went missing after RAW. :lol That's even more awesome.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Can't wait for Ambrose to start wrestling with a neck brace now instead of his shoulder being taped up .

Up to TLC with Unforgiven now. Shouldn't be long now before I post my ramble.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Before people think I am a grump, I loved Raw for the first time since May or so. After the Bellas/Steph promo it was all uphill and flowed well.

Ryback with the biggest chants in Summerslam week. Who'da thought?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Lesnar's next confirmed dates appear to be the September 15th episode of RAW and the Night of Champions PPV on the 21st, so it looks like he's working it. Awesome.
> 
> Also, the story they're running for Ambrose is that he refused medical attention and went missing after RAW. :lol That's even more awesome.


Lesnar working the go-home show makes me a bit angry lol. The one year my part of Canada gets a summer Raw rather than a go-home NOC Raw and Lesnar is working the go-home show.

We never get Lesnar or Rock or Undertaker since they've returned. :lmao


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

In a slight change of subject:

I've just watched Piper/Bret for the very first time o) and I thought Piper's performance was incredible. Seeing as I've only ever seen three matches of his (vs. Bret, Valentine and Goldust) can anybody recommend anything else of his that's worth watching.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Pre WWF Piper is the best Piper. Portland and Mid Atlantic. Can't think of anything specific off the top of my head but there's a tag between Flair/Robertson vs Piper/Snuka that is great. *


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Flux said:


> In a slight change of subject:
> 
> I've just watched Piper/Bret for the very first time o) and I thought Piper's performance was incredible. Seeing as I've only ever seen three matches of his (vs. Bret, Valentine and Goldust) can anybody recommend anything else of his that's worth watching.


Truthfully haven't seen much Piper myself, but this 6-man is pretty fun. I believe they built it up as Piper's last match in the Garden before his "retirement" match at WrestleMania III.

*Elimination Match*
Ricky Steamboat, Rowdy Roddy Piper & Junkyard Dog vs. Randy Savage, Harley Race & Adrian Adonis
_Madison Square Garden - February 23, 1987_






Part 2 is on the right side.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Flux said:


> In a slight change of subject:
> 
> I've just watched Piper/Bret for the very first time o) and I thought Piper's performance was incredible. Seeing as I've only ever seen three matches of his (vs. Bret, Valentine and Goldust) can anybody recommend anything else of his that's worth watching.


Funny you mentioned that, those are the only 3 Piper matches I've seen (other than his crap vs Hogan, of course) and I can't honestly say I've heard anyone pimp a Piper match that wasn't one of those 3. I've watched the Piper doc and the only matches he speaks fondly of are again, those 3 vs Valentine, Bret, and Goldust. I do know Piper had a pretty big program with Flair back in the Crockett days, you might try searching for stuff from that era.

Sorry I know that wasn't much help 

I was all set to watch Raw last night and then my fucking internet started lagging like a son of a bitch so I missed it. Was the Rollins/Ambrose match even better than their Lumberjack?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I've been meaning to watch more Piper myself soon. In terms if WWF, these two matches I've heard are good:

vs Hennig (12/28/1990)
vs Flair (10/30/1991)


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Funny you mentioned that, those are the only 3 Piper matches I've seen (other than his crap vs Hogan, of course) and I can't honestly say I've heard anyone pimp a Piper match that wasn't one of those 3. I've watched the Piper doc and the only matches he speaks fondly of are again, those 3 vs Valentine, Bret, and Goldust. I do know Piper had a pretty big program with Flair back in the Crockett days, you might try searching for stuff from that era.
> 
> Sorry I know that wasn't much help
> 
> *I was all set to watch Raw last night and then my fucking internet started lagging like a son of a bitch so I missed it. Was the Rollins/Ambrose match even better than their Lumberjack*?


For me, yes. I know you loved the shit outta the Lumberjack match so it might be about the same for you though. I went *** 3/4 but plenty of other folks are going ****+.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well, Unforgiven needs 5 points on the CAL SCALE to tie it with DECEMBER TO DISMEMBER. Can it do it?










*Unforgiven 2006*

Had to take the wrapping off this! Bought it a few years ago and, well, never bothered watching it . It gets a lot of praise as being one of the better single brand PPV's... but uhhh... looking at the card and remembering that I never liked the main event much, not sure it's gonna fair all that well with me .


*Johnny Nitro Vs Jeff Hardy - WWE Intercontinental Championship Match*

Yey Melina.

MELINA'S CLEAVAGE~! No, not being a random perve as usual. THE COMMENTATORS ARE TALKING ABOUT IT :lmao.

A "Nitro sucks" chant. Did we travel back in time to 1999? 8*D

Hardy keeps catching Nitro with a STEAMBOAT ARM DRAG, so Nitro gets pissed off and goes for one of his own... except Hardy avoids it and Nitro ends up spinning like a tit and landing on the mat :lmao.

:lmao Nitro gets hit in the balls and Melina is absolutely desperate to check on them :lmao.

Nice bump off the turnbuckle onto the ropes and to the mat by Jeff. A good transition spot.

Nitro works over the leg... with incredibly basic stuff, but some of the KICKS he does are real nice, and Hardy takes the "Mr Perfect holding onto the ropes and taking a bump off being hit in the leg" bump to the extreme by doing a full flip!

Hmmm, looks like it might rain. Sky is getting pretty dark outside. Oh, uhhh, the match. Yeah, Nitro is still just doing stuff to Hardy's leg.

Oh look Hardy can barely walk yet manages to jump onto the ropes and jump off with a high risk move...

POWERBOMB~!

MELINA HITS JEFF WITH HER BOOT~! NITRO WINS~!

What a dull match. A few good spots here and there, but for the most part it was just uninspiring leg work from Nitro than in the end kinda went nowhere because Melina ended up beating Jeff in the end anyway.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


:lmao Teddy Long sat all alone in a sky box watching the show .

THE HARDY BOYS AND LITA BACKSTAGE~! Lita's boobs are amazing.


*Umaga Vs Kane*

OOOO OOOOO OOOOOMAGA!

YOUMANGA~!

Damn, Umaga has been on the main roster for 5 months and this is his first PPV match? That's what JR just said, anyway. Seems like it should be wrong, but I don't bloody remember if he was on a PPV before this .

SLUGFEST~!

:lmao at Estrada breaking one of his Cuban's in half to signal time for the SAMOAN SPIKE, then Kane retaliates and Estrada picks up one of the halfs of the Cuban from the mat and sticks it back in his mouth . LIVING THE GIMMICK~!

Kane just won a headbutt exchange. WIth a Samoan. Wrestling logic tells me that is bullshit.

Boooooo they end up getting counted out as they brawl into the crowd. Shame, this was a pretty good battle between the two monsters, and it would have been nice to see a proper finish.

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*The Spirit Squad Vs The Highlanders - World Tag Team Championship Match*

Ummmm... no.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Shawn Michaels & Triple H Vs Vince McMahon, Shane McMahon & The Big Show - Hell in a Cell Match*

The debut of the new, taller HIAC, which basically told fans "LOL NOBODY IS EVER GOING UP TO THE TOP AGAIN". Until PAUL HEYMAN of all people did it in 2013 :lmao.

:lmao, Big Show tells the McMahons to STAND BACK (get it? hahahahahahaha) while he takes care of DX. So DX kick him in the balls and attack the McMahons anyway :lmao.

:lmao poor Big Show. He starts to get back up... so DX kick him in the balls AGAIN :lmao.

:mark: awesome bump right into the side of the cell by Shane. HE'S BUSTED WIDE OPEN~! Didn't take long .

Vince gets sent into the side of the cell too and I TOTALLY DIDN'T SEE HIM BLADE AT ALL HONEST...

HHH IS SCREWING VINCE MCMAHON~!

Both the McMahons are bloodied and battered, but the GIANT wakes up finally and turns the tide... for about a minute :lmao.

Big Show gets back up again and NOW the tide turns properly to allow the heels a control segment. HHH GETTING THE SHIT BEAT OUT OF HIM :mark:.

Vince and Shane absolutely destroy HHH in the ring, while Show stands on the outside and makes sure HBK doesn't get back up :mark:.

COAST TO COAST~!

Love how they are playing up on an ear injury angle they did the week before with HHH :mark:. He's all off balance and shit and it's fucking him up, and now after the coast to coast his ear is bleeding like fuck :mark:.

HBK takes a turn in getting absolutely mauled in the ring, and is even done for a 3 count, but Vince McMahon picks him up after a 2 count a couple of times because he wants to destroy him some more! Works well in a blood feud like this .

HHH comes in to try and help and gets cut off by Shane and a backbreaker... which gets turned into a neckbreaker type move but... I have no idea if it was an offensive move from Shane or defensive move from HHH :lmao.

KISS MY ASS CLUB MEETING~!

Shawn puts Vince in the way of a Big Show splash, and Big Show nearly starts crying :lmao. And then gets his balls rammed into the ring post. Big Show's balls have perhaps taken the biggest beating tonight :lmao.

Big comeback from DX, leading to HBK elbow dropping a chair wrapped around Shane's neck! Guess he won't be able to run the company after Vince now. HHH best step up and be his replacement... .

CHAIR SHOT TO THE... STOMACH OF BIG SHOW~!

SUPERKICK~! Show is out cold and bent over the ropes... bet that doesn't lead to anything :side:.

:mark: Vince standing back up and facing DX while looking like he's gonna kill em both is awesome. Then DX pull down Show's trousers and, well, Vince's head gets shoved up Show's arse :lmao.

SUPER KICK~!

SLEDGEHAMMER BROKEN OVER THE BACK OF VINCE'S NECK~!

And with that, DX get the win!

Fuck me what a super, SUPER fun match. Brutal as fuck, some great spots and some comedy thrown into the mix too. Me likes this.

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Lita Vs Trish Stratus - WWE Women's Championship Match*

Trish's retirement match!

Only fitting that her last match (at the time) would be against Lita . The GOAT women's rivalry in WWE.

Lita's theme is awful. I preferred the one without lyrics. That version didn't have someone screaming nonsense.

Hand stand head scissors and Thez Presses off the apron are things we see in just the first few minutes! They're putting more effort into this match than Orton has in 90% of his matches for the last few years .

Surprised Trish went for a high risk move off the apron though, given the uhhh... injuries these two have sustained doing crazy shit against each other lol.

So the Women's title can be traced back to 1956, and in 50 years the title has only changed hands ONCE in Toronto! Was probably never defended in Toronto until the last 6 years though .

Sweet jebus they are really going all out for this match. They battle on the top rope and both fall onto the apron and splat right on the floor! 

MOONSAU... TRISH MOVED~!

STRATISFAC... LITA COUNTERED AND DUMPS TRISH TO THE FLOOR~!

Fuck me these two and punching the shit out of each other! To hell with Kane/Umaga, this is where it's at lol.

CHICK KICK~!

LITA KICKS OUT~!

SHARPSHOOTER~! LITA TAPS OUT! LITA TAPS OUT!

Trish wins the Women's title in her retirement match!

Good match! Not the best women's match in WWE history, but certainly one of the better ones. Which yeah, ain't saying much, but I still liked it .

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*Randy Orton Vs Carlito*

:lmao Carlito decides to be all flashy with a springboard moonsault, landing on his feet then hitting a dropkick. Orton then thumbs him in the eye for being a useless prick .

Oh look, more flipping by Carlito, including a Lionsault. Orton's lip or mouth is bleeding. STUPID, STUPID. So uhhh... did Carlito's career ever go anywhere after this? Just wondering .

HEADLOCK~! But unlike how he does it today, he really wrenches on it and with the blood coming out of his mouth he looks like a fucking PSYCHO :mark:.

Some back and forth stuff and then RKO~!

Well this was... a giant load of nothing for the most part. Carlito hit some fancy moves. Orton bled from the mouth. Then Carlito went for another fancy move and got caught with an RKO. And that's pretty much it.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Edge Vs John Cena - WWE Championship TLC Match*

So if Cena loses, he has to leave Raw. And he's already got a 3 year contract worked out with Teddy Long lol.

CENA FEARS WORKRATE sign :lmao.

SPOT~!

SET UP THE NEXT SPOT.

SPOT~!

SET UP THE NEXT SPOT.

SPOT~!

SET UP THE NEXT SPOT.

SPOT~!

You get the idea.

Oh, almost forgot... BOTCH SPOT~!

:lmao at the F-U to a LADDER onto Edge. That might be the dumbest spot in a ladder/tlc match since RVD did that kick at SummerSlam 2001 despite being nowhere near Jeff to actually connect .

"I LOVE A GOOD FIST BUMP, JR"

Edge places Cena on a table... then sets up another table ON TOP OF CENA and tries to dive off the ropes through them. Because EDGE GOING THROUGH A TABLE AND THEN CENA IS GONNA BE THE SMARTEST THING POSSIBLE. Fucking moron.

MOAR SPOTS~!

LITA~! She LIFTS the ladder with Cena on it and pushes him over the ropes through a table!!!

:lmao Edge ends up having almost the same thing done to him... and Cena spends about 2 minutes just looking like a retard as he stalls for time before even attempting to climb the ladder. And oh look, when he DOES finally start climbing, Edge has recovered! WHAT ARE THE ODDS?

F-U THROUGH THOSE 2 TABLES SET UP EARLIER. Cena wins the title.

Not my thing. Spot spot spot spot spot spot spot spot spot spot spot spot spot spot spot spot spot spot spot spot spot spot spot. With nothing behind them or anything. Just SPOTZ~!

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 3*​
Nope.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I take it you mean the dog collar match in 1983? Haven't seen that since 2012 but it was good. Piper selling that eardrum + loss of equilibrium like he was a precursor to Regal. 

There's a match in December 1990 against Mr Perfect that people tend to find easy to enjoy.

Rogers/Piper from Portland in 1979 goes like five minutes and is on YouTube. Watch this and tell me you arent reminded of Ambrose. From the crazy offence and bump styles, right down to how he stands. Hey, if you're gonna imitate someone it may as well be late 70s/early 80s babyface Piper.

Snuka/Piper had a white hot feud throughout the mid 80s. Their 15/07/1984 Meadowlands match is the best of the bunch, iirc. Crazy brawl.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

lol @ mentioning dark rainy weather during the first match because for some reason, I always associate Unforgiven 2006 with a cloudy rainy day. Maybe it has to do with the atmosphere of the show looking rather dark. I guarantee you it's not for the show's quality! 

So, uh... agree on the HIAC and Trish/Lita matches. Disagree on the final two matches, but not a surprise, is it?

Pretty sure there have been climbing to the big cell before Heyman. Orton and Cena climbed to the top on Raw the week before their cell match (Orton took an FU up there) and didn't Ryback hit Punk with his finisher on top of the cell in 2012?

Back to SUMMERSLAM 2014: only have Rusev vs Swagger to go and I'm done with the whole show. You guys ain't lying when saying the lumberjack match was fun. ★★★¾ all the way. Ambrose and Rollins are awesome for making such a shitty gimmick work. Chaotic brawl that goes all over the place with the lumberjacks adding to it rather than taking from it? Damn right!

Will get to Raw after SS is fully over.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> lol @ mentioning dark rainy weather during the first match because for some reason, I always associate Unforgiven 2006 with a cloudy rainy day. Maybe it has to do with the atmosphere of the show looking rather dark. I guarantee you it's not for the show's quality!
> 
> So, uh... agree on the HIAC and Trish/Lita matches. Disagree on the final two matches, but not a surprise, is it?
> 
> ...




Glad you loved the Lumberjack match, Rollins and Ambrose have been the best thing going in WWE for over a month now, and they certainly didn't dissapoint in their first match. I'm glad they kept it short, I hate when guys run through all their stuff in their first match together. Ruins the blowoff.

I still can't believe I managed to rate an Orton match higher than you. Me and Jack Evans seem to be the only people in the Reigns/Orton SS fan club. Watched it twice now and thought it was really good.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

LilOlMe liked Orton/Reigns a good bit as well. (Y) Rusev/Swagger was my 2nd favorite match on the ppv though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I think you're downplaying my enjoyment of Orton/Reigns. I still gave it 3 stars which means it was solid. I think Orton did a fine job in carrying it but there was just so much he could do due to Reigns being as limited as he is. I will give it another watch just to make sure soon. But for now:

SS ratings:

Miz vs Ziggler - ★★¼ (Not bad but nothing special either. Me not being a Ziggler fan means the ending doesn't make a difference either.)

Paige vs AJ - ★★¼ (Less time and less sloppy than their previous match. A win/win and they do just about enough to make it good in 5 minutes. Paige is growing on me in terms of looks even with how pale she is, lol. AJ playing dead after the end was hilarious.)

Swagger vs Rusev - ★★¾ (A bit more time could've helped this get better. Excellent selling by both men, specially Rusev. Swagger also looked strong in defeat. lol @ JBL after Rusev kicks Zeb. "That's a grandfather you just kicked")

Ambrose vs Rollins - ★★★¾ (MOTN, these guys are just awesome.)

Wyatt vs Jericho - ★★¼ (Much like felt like a bunch of nothingness and never really kicked into a higher gear. Wyatt has become irrelevant since WM and Jericho nowadays always feels like he's going through the motions. Not bad but nothing memorable either.)

Stephanie vs Brie - ★★½ (Funny to see Steph outwrestle Brie 11 years after her last match. She's just special in having enjoyable matches with very little wrestling ability. Even better to see her pick up the win too.)

Orton vs Reigns - ★★★ (Already reviewed yesterday, I'll rewatch soon for verification.)

Brock vs Cena - ★★★½ (SQUASH)


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Rewatched Wyatts vs Usos 2 out of 3 falls from Payback today. If the beginning of that match wasn't so one sided (it was basically all Wyatts, hell, Jey I think it was got the hot tag from Jimmy and immediately he got pinned off of a big boot from Harper), I would consider this match to be a match of the year contender.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Count me in on the side that liked Reigns/Orton. But man, you guys have seen that I'm one of the bigger supporters of Reigns. But that was as big a carryjob as it can get. Orton was such a pleasure to watch in that match. Ending felt so deflating. It felt like one of those matches where the heel deserved the victory but you knew at the end that the babyface will win anyways. Sorta like Ziggler vs. Sheamus. One of Reigns' strong suit was his uncanny ability to sell really well for a guy of his "type". But that post-match selling was just putrid. I still like Reigns, but now I want to see Ambrose or Rollins get the title before him. The mere thought of Ambrose winning the title after dethroning Lesnar, only for Rollins to cash-in on Ambrose after the match. :lenny

Piper had good stuff with Chavo Guerrero too. I recall him having another great one against Steamboat in 1981. And two good matches with Jack Brisco.

:lol Cal's review outside of that HIAC match was on point. I legitimately don't understand what you guys found so fun about that match. That match and Hogan/Flair at HH 94 are two matches that I will never get the approval for. Never. I even understand why people like Kofi Kingston. But not those two matches. :lmao Nitro vs. Hardy was so bad.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ambrose vs Rollins - DUD

Need to watch RAW asap to get the potential bad taste out of my mouth.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Were you bothered by them not honoring the stipulation? That seems to be the major criticism.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bothered by it being an absolute pitiful mess. But that doesn't matter b/c hey it's Rollins & Ambrose. Can't have anything bad, apparently.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm guessing Rusev was in your MOTN once again. Which isn't a bad thing at all considering how glorious he has been.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep. Toss up between him & Brock vs Cena, tbhayley. Rusev is the man.

Here's the ramble I wrote last night:



Spoiler: ramble



I'm almost too blown away by Ambrose vs Rollins being the biggest fucking mess ever to even praise how I liked Brock vs Cena and particularity want to give a LOT of credit to Rusev & Swagger for the match they worked. Rusev's expressions of pain on his ankle from start to finish, even post match as he took out Zeb, was top notch. Rusev wins SummerSlam.

I didn't hate or even dislike Reigns vs Orton. Actually went how I mapped it out in my head. Not "exciting" but wasn't awful, just slow paced b/c it is an Orton match & look who his opponent is. Haven't soured on Reigns. He doesn't do anything wrong. True, he doesn't have a WHOLE lot in his singles game, but lets blame the company too. Sprints work better for him. Anything to start hot, sell in the middle, and do the hot comeback finish can work. We've seen it before. Stretching it out just b/c it is mean to be "big" aka long isn't needed. Especially when the opponent is Orton. Still, tolerable enough for me. I guess I just don't care b/c Reigns won and I didn't want Orton to win. b/c that would have been a pile of nonsense. Less of that in WWE helps. RKO nearfall is gonna piss off so many geeks. Brilliant.

Def preferred the Miz vs Dolph sprint here than their RAW match. That one was pretty much what I was talking about for Reigns. It was shorter and therfore MUCH easier to take in. Miz working long matches, yuck most of the time. Those beatdowns suck. They were nixed here and it was fast and again, tolerable enough. Dolph won. Fuck it. I just got happy. You think I care? nope. YAY FOR BEING HAPPY A BABYFACE WON. At least I had genuine emotion for a result.

Steph vs Brie went w/the obvious Russo serve. Jesus christ. Triple H now bumping off of women's offense. That's the guy who's meant to be the next threat to Reigns? And why were Harper & Rowan lumberjacks? Just lose all bit of essence their characters used to hold. They're now like everyone else on the roster. Almost forgot Bray vs Jericho happened. Wished I never saw Ambrose vs Rollins. Highlight of that match was the Goldust pop, btw. Use him, WWE. You dense creatures. Paige & AJ never need to work again. But at least the one I love won & acted all psychosexual in the match. Erections can merit for fun, right?

Brock vs Cena was something that earned my full support. I love Brock. I don't feel the need to say it in every post, but I do. Jheri can hate me later, if he must. Love Cena too so everything he did - get dropped on his head a ton - worked well for me too. Bam. Easy peasy. And more praise to both Rusev & Swagger just b/c how much I liked it. They made such a cliche bit into something I actually enjoy seeing. I must give them infinite praise. That and working all three matches very well helps. This is a paragraph of positivity.

General WWE event in my eyes. A lot of bad, one-two match show, and some other bits just floating around.



Just saw Ambrose vs Cesaro from Smackdown. Thought it was better than most of the PPV. Oh well. That's how WWE does business these days. Burning Hammer by Cesaro. Get out of town. Ambrose is still the best worker in WWE. Regardless of how I felt about his Rollins match. I disliked the RAW matches vs Orton & Del Rio too, so he's had a few hiccups there. Rest of the year is rather sparkling. Top three worker on the whole year for me w/Tetsuya Naito & Tomohiro Ishii.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Don't suppose Brock/Cena from Summerslam is already uploaded somewhere so I can watch it? From what I read on how it was booked I'm curious to check it out, but other than that I didn't watch Summerslam.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

HENRY VS. RUSEV :mark: 

I wonder who Rollins is gonna work with for NoC though. I would say Reigns because they've had zero interaction since Rollins stabbed him in the back, but he's either still in the Randal feud or maybe starting one with HHH, so that's not an option.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Show & Henry vs Wyatts from Smackdown ruled. They got more time on RAW. I'm pumped.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Triple H made it official. Lesnar vs. Cena III at Night of Champions.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Feel like that's a tad early for the re-match but we'll see what happens.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Triple H made it official. Lesnar vs. Cena III at Night of Champions.


Where did he do that?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

^The news broke on WWE.com and we have a thread for it - http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wwe-ppv/1375042-lesnar-vs-cena-rematch-night-champions.html


I'm looking forward to them fighting again. The story for Cena will obviously be to put up a greater fight than he did at SummerSlam. Their last two matches have been booked so uniquely like no other WWE main events in the last decade so it's intriguing how Night Of Champions will differentiate from the others.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Do any of you guys have the .gif of Cena lifting up his head when he wins MitB from two years ago?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Huh. Wonder if they'll even attempt to stretch this out towards HIAC.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Spoiler: brock's direction



From what I gather off a badly phrased sentence, Wrestling Observer are saying that while Brock goes into Wrestlemania champion, that doesn't mean he will be champion for every month until then.



Sigh


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Huh. Wonder if they'll even attempt to stretch this out towards HIAC.


I hope they do. Would love to see the physicality they would bring in a match that calls for such brutality. Maybe at Night Of Champions they have Cena completely lose it and attack Brock with a chair or steel chain, and they brawl to a non-finish. They would have no choice but to end it inside the Cell.

Hell in a Cell PPV headlined by BROCK/CENA and ROLLINS/AMBROSE would be :faint:

Both rivalries warrant the gimmick too unlike several HIACs at this show in the last few years.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rah said:


> Spoiler: brock's direction
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I knew they'd fuck it up. How many times they going to hot potato the title.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The scenario probably would work for the gimmick. I mean, what else is there to do w/that event looming on the horizon? Brock not working the show entirely? Eh. Might as well bite the bullet now the rematch is signed, sealed, & delivered for NOC. Working a new program into Survivor Series doesn't even have to happen. WWE could safeguard a defense by emphasizing the trademark elimination match for a main event too.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm guessing Bork doesn't work HIAC and Ambrose vs. Rollins in the cell headlines. Or maybe I'm dreaming.

I also see a Batista and/or Randal feud in the future for Brock


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WWE attempting another Batista babyface run after what happened earlier would be :hayden3

and thinking b/c of a Superhero movie will be a good reason for it is literally even more :hayden3


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Summerslam 2014

Cena/Lesnar - ***
Ambrose/Rollins - ***1/4

Cant see how a squash match is worth the **** rating thrown about.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Because it was fun.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

b/c it was everything Rollins vs Ambrose wasn't.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Word


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So Cena/Lesnar NOC has been officially announced? Yey?

Wonder how they'll work the match this time. I mean, what the fuck can Cena do differently? Head on against Lesnar = DEATH. He sure as fuck can't try to out-wrestle Lesnar either. Unless they add a No DQ stip or something and Cena makes use of weapons from the get go, I don't see why the match wouldn't just be the same as SS or even ER with Lesnar just mauling him.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

So Cena is indeed winning the title, a month after getting squashed by Brock.

Knew this would happen, said it all along as soon as it was revealed Brock was getting the belt.

But that was before we saw what happened at SS.

I mean sure, Brock can still win the title again before Mania, but fuck having Cena win again.

Just knew it. I know it's not set in stone Cena is winning, but it's a high percentage probability at this point, no?

Hope to fuck I'm wrong.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> WWE attempting another Batista babyface run after what happened earlier would be :hayden3
> 
> and thinking b/c of a Superhero movie will be a good reason for it is literally even more :hayden3


I thought you'd know WWE's logic (or complete lack thereof) by now


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I always like to think competence shouldn't be too far behind for WWE. Meanwhile, I'm still about 50 miles ahead of it for my own good. :hayley2


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

Fun? People throw about **** because it was fun? Each to their opinions I guess.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

We should ask Jim Cornette.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

What's everyone think of the reports that Bryan could be back by Survivor Series? I'd obviously welcome it, but I'm not gonna get my hopes up at all :side: :bryan4


----------



## Word (Mar 28, 2007)

I would leave him to RR. Survivor Series has zero credibility anymore and obviously, if we are all expecting Survivor Series, could feel a little anti-climatic.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The next title win ties Cena with Flair. That should be at the end of a very long tale of self-doubt and perseverance. Not only did he overcome himself, but he attained something only one man has done before. Not use it on what will nevertheless be a meaningless transition.

I can see HHH setting this up as a means of embarrassing Cena, and Cena winning it due to Brock being too cocky. I can also see Brock winning, decisively, again. I see no point in either.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Word said:


> I would leave him to RR. Survivor Series has zero credibility anymore and obviously, if we are all expecting Survivor Series, could feel a little anti-climatic.


Exactly why I feel SVS is a right opportunity. Bryan's return is big enough of an event to restore part of the credibility for what once was a show that was just as big, in years bigger, than Royal Rumble and even in a few cases SummerSlam.

Though what match would be booked for Bryan that night I don't know. Usually somebody returning has to win his first match back, so Lesnar/Bryan right there (if it even happens given LOLCENA) is kinda risky, though it is a good opportunity if they don't wanna do it at WM. They could give him his revenge against Kane I guess; or maybe Bryan/HHH II. Who knows.

If I were to book it, I guess I'd do HHH/Bryan II w/Steph and Brie on either corners, some BIG SVS elimination match in Team Orton/Team HHH style in which the winning team would run Raw for a bunch of weeks - which atm would be Team Reigns (Reigns, Cena, Sheamus and The Usos) vs. Team Orton (Orton, Rollins and The Wyatt Family) - and the Main Event would be Lesnar/Ambrose for the WWE title (after beating Rollins inside HIAC, Ambrose could move on to bigger things).


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

The Fab Four said:


> So Cena is indeed winning the title, a month after getting squashed by Brock.
> 
> Knew this would happen, said it all along as soon as it was revealed Brock was getting the belt.
> 
> ...


It's very possible, because I think that people are full of wishful thinking when they talk about Brock working more PPVs.

He will not work if he does not get substantially more money, period. This is a guy who wanted to be paid extra for training with Taker (I don't blame him, btw).

Vince also is in the midst of huge budget cuts. In his mind, why would he pay Lesnar more, when he can book the shows without him, as he has been doing?

No reason in Vince's mind for Brock to carry the title for months and months. _Especially_ because apparently he wants Brock/Rock at Wrestlemania, which means even more strongly that Brock doesn't need the title.

On top of that, they're not advertising him yet for any shows post-NOC.

I don't know if Cena's gonna win, or if Seth's gonna cash-in, but I really hope it's the latter. That's what makes the most sense, since there's gonna be a ton of network subscriptions expiring after NOC, and Vince needs the hardcore fans to stay on. I don't know if another Cena title reign is exactly a great incentive for those types.

Heyman put over Cena big during that last promo, btw.

My guess is that the Lesnar/Cena match will have some type of stipulation. Probably NO DQ. This will also help them flirt with the idea of Cena turning heel, which may be enticing for Vince to flirt with, since he might think that that would help with subscriptions, due to making things more interesting.

Not saying that he'll actually turn, of course.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Well they are idiots for backing themselves into a corner. Don't put the belt on Brock in the first place then if that's the way you are going to go, with him dropping a month later, to Cena, after what just happened at SS.

What I'm trying to say is the SS squash will get forgotten and it won't matter if Cena just wins again a month later. We are all getting all pubescent about the way Brock won, rightly so, but in the end would it have made a difference?

IF Brock wins, forget I said anything lol.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

WWE should introduce a wrestler, or even better - a stable called THE ODDS already, and put him/them in eternal feud with John Cena.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, I'm pretty certain that, given how badly he wants Lesnar/Rock to happen at WM next year, Brock will unfortunely drop the title sooner or later. However, I'd like to think that it's not against Cena. If they give Cena the title back after the SS squash, I want Vince McMahon and all of Creative's heads in the custody of North Korea because they might be the most moronic writers in ALL of modern entertainment history. They still have a chance of rehabbing this entire situation that they fucked up COMPLETELY the moment they gave Brock the Streak; and no, it's not Rollins cashing-in - have Brock vacate the title himself simply because he's too much of a BEAST to simply carry a title he KNOWS nobody could take from him, and a title he knows he doesn't need anyway, therefore making his tenure in WWE "more fun" for him. That's the only way that they can salvage this situation without completely killing his momentum.

And what would that build into? The Royal Rumble match. For only the second time in history - the first since 1992 - the vacated WWE Title would be on the line in the Royal Rumble match. Not sure if I'd have Lesnar enter the Rumble, given how it would be stupid of him to vacate the title if that would be case, but at the same time he could say he didn't directly lose the title to somebody else if he were to be eliminated from the Rumble so there is a silver lining in that.

Anyway, the match would come down to, what you know, Ambrose, Rollins and Reigns. There's a moment where Rollins is about to eliminate Ambrose, but Reigns spitefully stops Rollins and alongside Ambrose sets his sights on him for revenge after his selling out. They beat the crap out of him, and eliminate him. Then, Ambrose and Reigns go at it for a while, reminiscent of Taker/HBK in 2007 and Jericho/Sheamus in 2012, and finally, Reigns attempts a Spear through the ropes, but Ambrose narrowly dodges and Reigns eliminates himself, crowning Ambrose the 2015 Royal Rumble winner and the new WWE Champion. Rollins comes back, beats Ambrose up with the Authority, Reigns tries to help but can't, Rollins cashes in and wins the title. Ambrose gets his rematch AT WrestleMania, given how he still won the Rumble and still is the former champion, technically; and Reigns also has an argument for deserving a shot, given how he didn't have to save Ambrose and could've won the Rumble if he wanted. Reigns wins a nº1 Contender Elimination Chamber match, and the Shield Triple Threat for the WWE Title headlines WM. Neither of this hurts Brock Lesnar, who goes on to face the Rock. Simple as that.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

THE UNDERTAKER should return at Survivor Series and beat Lesnar for the belt to get his win back :side:.

Started another 06 PPV Ramble. 2 matches to go. Low score so far, doubt it's gonna get any better :lmao.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Word said:


> Fun? People throw about **** because it was fun? Each to their opinions I guess.


oh my god my four asterisks how will i ever get them back


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If that isn't the Survivor Series 06 ramble, I don't know really 

I was legit shocked that Unforgiven scored lower than D2D, which just further proves how this is pretty much Bizarro World out here :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Cyber Sunday 2006*

Yet another 06 PPV that I have to take the wrapping off lol. Think 2 more still have wrapping on too . All Raw shows .


*Umaga Vs Kane*

So the choice in this match was Umaga's opponent. Kane, Benoit or Sandman. I enjoyed Kane/Umaga's brawl at Unforgiven so I'm ok with this decision, however BENOIT Vs Umaga would have been :mark:.

Kane won with 49%. Wow lol.

Huh, so these two had another match, a loser leaves Raw match, sending Kane to Smackdown! I guess it makes sense the fans would vote for Kane then, as it wasn't just their Unforgiven match in their history.

SLUGEST~! AGAIN~! YEY~!

Love Kane's Uppercut. Makes one epic sound.

RUNNING BUTT ATTACK~! IT WAS SUPER EFFECTIVE!

SAMOAN SPIKE TO THE RINGPOST~! Silly Umaga, that's not your opponent!

Kane is absolutely trying to cave in the skull of the SAMOAN BULLDOZER :mark:.

How great is Estrada on the outside btw? Always cheering on his guy, then when Kane gains control he gets worried and you can see him actually sweating like mad and fanning himself with his hat .

UMAGA HEAD FIRST INTO THE RING POST~! Kinda like Sting in that match with Vader, except Umaga wasn't trying to hit his finishing move and overshot it or anything retarded like that .

A distraction from Estrada, and the SAMOAN SPIKE puts an end to the Big Red Machine!

Good stuff again! One of these days I'll look up their Loser Leaves Raw match to see if that was any good too.

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


Sharmell trying to convince Big Show to help Booker T out tonight. Big Show turns her down.


*Cryme Tyme Vs Viscera & Charlie Hass Vs The Highlanders Vs Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch - Texas Tornado Match*

Ha, Cryme Tyme are kewl because they ain't using no I's in Cryme Tyme. IT'S ALL ABOUT THE Y'S BABY~!

Crazy to think that JTG has ONLY just been released this year :lmao. Poor guy. He was living the dream.

Choices were Texas Tornado, Fatal Four Way and Tag Team Turmoil. Glad Texas Tornado won tbh. Can't imagine this match would have been any good with the other stipulations. Not saying this is guaranteed to be good now, but at least an all out war should be fun, right?

The HIGHlanders with a HIGH risk move. Ha. Get it? HIGH. Speaking of HIGH, it's Cryme Tyme! 

JTG Vs Hass... JTG does a bunch of hippy hoppy moves or something and gets a GERMAN SUPLEX for his troubles. Ha.

SWEET N SOUR~!

Cryme Tyme STEAL the win from Cade and Murdoch. Ha. I get it.

Well this was... fine I guess. Short as fuck. Probably for the best .

:lmao Cryme Tyme celebrate with Lawler and JR and steal Lawler's laptop. JR first bumps Lawler. Awesome.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


HBK constantly pressing a button on a laptop. This leads to one of the GOAT segments ever. HBK RUNNING AROUND SUPERKICKING RANDOM PEOPLE~!

"Hey, buddy, what's you name?"

"Stan."

SUPERKICK~!

"I just kicked STAN!"

:lmao.


*Jeff Hardy Vs Carlito - WWE Intercontinental Championship Match*

After watching both men be utter shite in their matches at Unforgiven, I have no desire to sit through this. Oh, other options were Shelton and Nitro.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Shawn Michaels & Triple H Vs Randy Orton & Edge - Special Guest Referee: Eric Bischoff*

DX Vs Rated RKO. Options were for either Bischoff, Vince McMahon or THE COACH to be the guest referee. Everyone picked Bischoff because there were heavy rumours of a DX Vs NWO match in the future .

Shawn exposes Edge's arse, while Randy stands on the apron with a look of "what have I got myself into tagging with this ejit?" on this face .

According to Lawler, the fans have made some well well decisions tonight. Nope, no type there. Well well decisions.

Pretty dull and uninspiring first half of this match. DX shine period, then suddenly Rated RKO are in control and HHH has a shitty FIP segment. Hot tag to Shawn that eventually leads to him taking a turn at being FIP and this is where shit picks up because HBK is actually a good FIP.

Fuck me Bischoff must be the slowest counting referee in the world. And not in the heel way where he counts slow for DX... every count is unbelievably SLOW :lmao.

Unfortunately HBK being a good FIP doesn't help much when Orton and Edge are boring as fuck on offence.

SPEAR TO BISCHOFF~!

SPEAR AND RKO TO HHH~!

Another referee comes in and... HHH kicks out :lmao. He took a Spear then an RKO and still kicked out :lmao.

SUPERKICK TO ORTON~! I could watch Orton get superkicks in the face all day.

BISCHOFF PULLS OUT THE OTHER REFEREE TO BREAK UP THE COUNT~!

CHAIR TO HBK~!

CHAIR TO HHH~!

RKO ON THE CHAIR~!

And Rated RKO get the win.

Well this was fucking DULL until the last few minutes when they go into the finishing stretch. But that alone doesn't help it because the finishing stretch was built to with boring, dull shitty crap.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Lita Vs Mickie James - WWE Women's Championship Diva Lumberjacks Match*

So this is the final of a tournament, since Trish retired with the belt after winning it from Lita at Unforgiven.

Choices were Lumberjack, Submission and No DQ. DQ missed out with about 5%. Bah. Shouldn't this be a Lumberjill match anyway? 8*D

Any excuse to have all the divas surrounding the ring lol. I swear I could only name half of them :lmao.

"There's no such thing as a sure thing, unless it's name is Lita" :lmao.

It's slow, it's sloppy, but I can't take my eyes off it .

Lita wins. Yey .

Shame the match was awful :lmao.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


OH NOES THE SPIRIT SQUAD ARE BREAKING APART! WON'T SOMEBODY STOP THE MADNESS?!?!


*The Spirit Squad Vs Ric Flair & Roddy Piper - World Tag Team Championship Match*

It's Flair and Piper. But it's Flair and Piper in 06. Well, Piper in 06. Flair is still awesome in any decade tbh. But their opponents are male cheerleaders. But this is Piper's first and only tag title win in WWE, and if I'm not mistaken only his second title in the company ever too (first was IC in 92). And Piper unfortunately got diagnosed with Cancer and had to drop the belt too (thankfully he kicked it's arse).

Ah screw it, it's fucking FLAIR AND PIPER. I'm gonna endure .

The other options for Flair's partner, Slaughter and Dusty, come out to ringside anyway to even the odds. Only 4 legends at ringside, but most of them count as 2 people :side: .

Sad to see the state of Piper at this time tbh . I wanna make a joke about how fat he looks but I don't know if that was anything to do with his cancer or not, and well, Cancer is a sensitive subject for me and I don't like making jokes about it regardless.

:lmao Kenny has a sleeper on Piper, who stars moving Kenny's legs and walking him over to Flair to try and make a tag . He may be old, he may be a little out of shape, but he can still be awesome .

JR bringing up Flair and Piper's history from Mid-Atlantic :mark:.

FIGURE FOUR~!

SUPER MEGA HIGH TOP ROPE LEG DROP BY KENNY TO BREAK IT UP~! Pretty impressive leg drop tbh.

FIGURE FOUR AGAIN~! Piper stops Kenny from breaking it up, and FLAIR AND PIPER WIN THE WORLD TAG TITLES!!!

Well, if I skipped this I wouldn't have been missing much at all, but oh well .

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Booker T trying to convince Cena to help him tonight since Show turned him down. Cena wants Booker to whore out Sharmell for the night in order to help him. THE FACE OF THE WWE, FOLKS!!! BOOKER T AGREES :lmao. Cena claims he was joking. Yeah, ok. I BELIEVE YOU :side:.


*John Cena Vs The Big Show Vs Booker T - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

CHAMPION OF CHAMPIONS MATCH~! The fans got to decide which title is on the line. They went with Booker T because I guess they hoped someone would win it from him because fuck me Booker T was awful. Oh, sorry, KING Booker. When he was twice as annoying as usual...

Ha, there is some music in the video package that totally reminds me of Halo. Then it switches up to the shitty PPV theme . Now I wanna play Halo again. The first, of course.

BOOKER AND CENA ARE NOT DAWGS~! :lmao JR is awesome.

Cena decks Booker, and Booker fucks off to the floor leaving Show to maul Cena. Good strategy for Booker, and great for fans as it cuts down on Booker action .

Dammit, Booker is back in the match . Axe Kick's Big Show while he's leaning on the ropes. Guess that was pretty cool. Yey Big Show is killing Booker . Crazy to think that at this time, the ECW CHAMPION was the best major champion in the company. Benoit is the current US champ so I didn't want to say Show is the best champ overall .

:lmao at clearly being able to see Big Show preparing himself to get knocked over the ropes by Cena and Booker.

Big Show's beard appears to be sweating. Oh no, it's just him drooling as usual. WHY DOES BIG SHOW DROOL SO MUCH?!?!

BOOKEND~! CENA KICKS OUT~!

Oh my god there is still 15 minutes of the show left? So at least 10 minutes of match probably? I wanna cry.

Big Show took a bump on the steel steps and was knocked out for like 5 whole minutes :|. Leaving us with Booker Vs Cena.

Then finally Show returns to the match and it picks up again. Basically: Big Show = fun. Booker & Cena = SOMEONE SHOOT ME.

*sigh* Show gets a steel chair kicked in his face and he seems to be out of the match again.

F-U TO SHARMELL. WHO DIDN'T GET INVOLVED IN THIS MATCH ONCE. THE FACE OF THE WWE, FOLKS! What a guy.

:lmao Kevin Federline gets involved :lmao. Remember his feud with Cena? :lmao

WHC TO THE FACE OF CENA~! BOOKER T WINS~!

:lmao

This. Was. Awful. Big Show was the ONLY good thing in the match and unfortunately he got knocked out of it twice.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 1.5*​


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That show deserved a negative Cal score. In fact, I'm upset that you didn't give Unforgiven a lower score either. I don't know what was worse, RAW 2003 PPVs or RAW 2006 PPVs. Even Backlash wasn't that good.

Brock vacating the title because of boredom might sound cool at first, but it's a terrible idea if you want to make the rest of the roster look competent. That goes for anyone that chooses to vacate a title for any reason other than injury. On top of that, the title has been vacated so many times in the past year that doing it once again would just piss everybody off. Disappointed in you, ATF :side:

See this is why CM Punk was the greatest wrestler of all-time. He managed to hold on to the damn title for over a year, and he did it in the far superior modern era. He isn't an inferior individual that leaves to hide in Saskatchewan because the travel schedule is too rugged. And when he got surgery, he still worked shows. This title at the moment doesn't need a Brock Lesnar. It needs something better.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Huh. Wonder if they'll even attempt to stretch this out towards HIAC.


I was kinda hoping they'd skip over NOC and have the rematch inside the cell. That PPV being headlined by Brock/Cena and Ambrose/Rollins would just be :done



The Fab Four said:


> So Cena is indeed winning the title, a month after getting squashed by Brock.
> 
> Knew this would happen, said it all along as soon as it was revealed Brock was getting the belt.
> 
> ...


DUDE, stop getting so paranoid! :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I was kinda hoping they'd skip over NOC and have the rematch inside the cell. That PPV being headlined by Brock/Cena and Ambrose/Rollins would just be :done
> 
> 
> DUDE, stop getting so paranoid! :lol


  It's just something I fully expect them to do. I'll be the first one to say "Hey, I was wrong thank fuck" if Brock retains.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> That show deserved a negative Cal score. In fact, I'm upset that you didn't give Unforgiven a lower score either. I don't know what was worse, RAW 2003 PPVs or RAW 2006 PPVs. Even Backlash wasn't that good.
> 
> *Brock vacating the title because of boredom might sound cool at first, but it's a terrible idea if you want to make the rest of the roster look competent. That goes for anyone that chooses to vacate a title for any reason other than injury. On top of that, the title has been vacated so many times in the past year that doing it once again would just piss everybody off. Disappointed in you, ATF :side:
> *
> See this is why CM Punk was the greatest wrestler of all-time. He managed to hold on to the damn title for over a year, and he did it in the far superior modern era. He isn't an inferior individual that leaves to hide in Saskatchewan because the travel schedule is too rugged. And when he got surgery, he still worked shows. This title at the moment doesn't need a Brock Lesnar. It needs something better.


Well I tried. Not everything can be my version of Ambrose/Rollins .

Agreed that Cyber Sunday 2006 deserved a negative score. To think SVS was better than that show is horribad. Disagreed that CM Punk was the greatest wrestler of all-time - because WOOOOOOOOOO!


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Yeah, you need to relax Fab mate.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I imagine the story of the rematch will be that Cena puts in a brave fight but still ends up losing. Hope so anyway, Brock can't just lose the title after squashing Cena...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

That fucking kid shouting "Let's go Cena" was bloody annoying lol. 

Lesnar looked in super lean shape at SS. Such another unique match.

That sit up is one of the great SS moments too.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hey Hitman, this one's to cheer you up:








And Cal, given how you already got rid of three of the absolute dirt worst PPV's of 2006 (Royal Rumble, Cyber Sunday and D2D), for your next ramble, get rid of the fourth one, Survivor Series. After that, it's all mostly average/decent to good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nah, I wanna watch something good next, and sandwhich the rest of the shite in between the good ones. So NYR, SS and SVS will be in between... SD shows . With Vengeance as a wild card because I haven't seen it since 06 and it never really gets brought up as being good, bad, mediocre or... well nobody talks about it at all .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Super.

Willing to take a match upload request. Unless it's already on YT or DM.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Upload SHIELD vs Jeribackeamus (if you get what that means); haven't seen it in forever. 



#ROOT said:


> Nah, I wanna watch something good next, and sandwhich the rest of the shite in between the good ones. So NYR, SS and SVS will be in between... SD shows . With Vengeance as a wild card because I haven't seen it since 06 and it never really gets brought up as being good, bad, mediocre or... well nobody talks about it at all .


SummerSlam isn't bad, you can rest on that . But yeah. And Vengeance is... well, it's between mediocre and decent. You get to choose . If that's the case, go for JUDGMENT DAY next :mark:.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

The Fab Four said:


> That fucking kid shouting "Let's go Cena" was bloody annoying lol.
> 
> Lesnar looked in super lean shape at SS. Such another unique match.
> 
> That sit up is one of the great SS moments too.


Just SummerSlam moments? That's a moment I imagine most won't forget.

Anyways, I never really thought about it but yeah, Brock looked in great shape. I have to admit even as a huge fan in 2012, it was disappointing seeing him kind of fat and with some rolls. However, since then, he's clearly taken being in shape more seriously. That or he actually was still hurt from diversomething and couldn't workout 100% before that match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Upload SHIELD vs Jeribackeamus (if you get what that means); haven't seen it in forever


Shield vs Jericho/Sheamus/Ryback (Raw 02.18.2013). Will try tomorrow.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Fab Four said:


> That fucking kid shouting "Let's go Cena" was bloody annoying lol.
> 
> Lesnar looked in super lean shape at SS. Such another unique match.
> 
> That sit up is one of the great SS moments too.


Honestly I kinda liked the kid shouting in the crowd. Added to the story and the moment even more, ya know? Saw his hero get crushed. Haha


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Honestly I kinda liked the kid shouting in the crowd. Added to the story and the moment even more, ya know? Saw his hero get crushed. Haha


Yeah, I wanted Lesnar to pick Cena up and just shout "There goes your fucking hero".

Not very PG though lol.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

The annoying replay took away from the sit-up spot by Lesnar.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Dammit, now my booker self has a few really good ideas for NOC. I hope that, to entertain himself during his bullying of John boy, Brock pours Cena with one of those ice buckets, only w/blood, urine and vomit all in them :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> The annoying replay took away from the sit-up spot by Lesnar.


Agreed. Hopefully they'll at least fix it for the DVD/Bluray release, though it still won't have the crowd reaction the spot should have received .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> The annoying replay took away from the sit-up spot by Lesnar.


Yeah, I was shouting fuck the replay lol. At least they shown a replay of it, I think only JBL really commented on it though. 

Hope they fix it for the DVD like Cal said, can they do that?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Fab Four said:


> Yeah, I was shouting fuck the replay lol. At least they shown a replay of it, I think only JBL really commented on it though.
> 
> Hope they fix it for the DVD like Cal said, can they do that?


They should be able to. Assuming they are as professional as I think they are, each camera angle would record a different track of audio/video, and then the replay they showed would just be an overlay type thingy, so they could either remove the overlay or the replay, or just slice in pure footage from the original camera angle. Only problem though is the commentators, as they were probably talking about the replay too. Sure, they could cut the audio, but then there would just be silence, or they've had to re-record some audio to go over the top of it.

You know what? I don't think WWE will even bother .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

PGSucks said:


> I also see a Batista and/or Randal feud in the future for Brock


Yes plz. :mark:



Rah said:


> The next title win ties Cena with Flair. That should be at the end of a very long tale of self-doubt and perseverance. Not only did he overcome himself, but he attained something only one man has done before. Not use it on what will nevertheless be a meaningless transition.


Good point. Too bad WWE are fucking idiots and don't want a good story and would rather just rush everything. It's like Cena's Survivor Series streak. They gave it away in 2012 just like that when they could've used it for something more... meaningful. Even if SVS is an irrelevant PPV at this point.



#ROOT said:


> I wanna make a joke about how fat he looks but I don't know if that was anything to do with his cancer or not, and well, Cancer is a sensitive subject for me and I don't like making jokes about it regardless.


I feel that. I usually laugh about inappropriate subjects but even with no history with cancer, I still can't joke about this particular subject. Well, other than one time when I referred to Carcer City (from Manhunt) as Cancer City. 

You also did yourself a huge favor skipping Carlito vs Hardy from that show. If you think Unforgiven was bad, then CS is ten times worse. Even with a DUD rating it is worthy of the -1 score.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I still think that DUD should mean -1 point on the Cal Scale. :side:

Btw, Cal, did you read my advice about your next PPV ramble? Because if not, I'll give you a hint for you to not go back on the pages to check it out - the theme song was CM Punk's first WWE theme song.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched the Heyman dvd last night. Can watch him all day, loved it. :mark:

I'll try and watch the promos and BD extras this week too.

The Big Show wasn't exactly complimentary about Heyman lol, every snippet of him was virtually taking a pot shot at him. Steph was honest it seemed too, probably loved trying to put him down though too.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Pretty sure Brock will retain at NOC but Cena will put up a fight.

Said this months ago and I'm sticking to it; Brock will leave as champion, they'll crown a new champion and Brock will return at the Rumble or Elimination Chamber to unify the titles setting him up for Reigns at Wrestlemania. This way he still looks strong and they dont have to worry about not having a champion on the show.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> I still think that DUD should mean -1 point on the Cal Scale. :side:
> 
> Btw, Cal, did you read my advice about your next PPV ramble? Because if not, I'll give you a hint for you to not go back on the pages to check it out - the theme song was CM Punk's first WWE theme song.


Was the advise to do Judgment Day next? If so it's all on this page and I ain't needing to go back on previous pages and shit. I roll with 25 replies per page baby!

Next ramble is gonna be either Judgment Day or GAB. Wanting to do NM, SVS and Armageddon in some kind of order (probably not one after the other) so I can see the whole Taker/Kennedy feud in order. Plus I get to finish with Armageddon, which is a splendid show itself . Just gotta sandwich those damn Raw shows somewhere. At least Backlash should be enjoyable since I watched a few matches from it not too long ago and they helped up nicely.

Oh, BTW, did my videos live up to the non-existent hype?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Asshole, getting those mod previleges 

But yeah, that was for Judgment Day. But thinking about it, go with TGAB. Tbh I personally never thought that TGAB was that great of a show myself. I still think it's a good show (all title matches were good; Batista/Kennedy was a nice squash; BRA & PANTIES was incrediFAP), but it's really the worst of all SD PPV's in 2006 imo. Go w/TGAB, then go then go NYR, then go Backlash for the next few. That's how I see it. 

Oh and I expected more of a total sitcom rather than simply the 1999 WWR, so I was KINDA dissapointed. Kinda.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

What mod privileges? Setting the post count to 25 per page? http://www.wrestlingforum.com/profile.php?do=editoptions the option is here for everyone .

I enjoyed GAB a ton when I watched it for my SD 06 project back in the day, so it's one I'm definitely looking forward to seeing. Though that can be said for like, every SD show in 06 .

A sitcom would be rather difficult to do on my own .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

OOPS. Didn't know that despite being logged into this forum for over two years .

Well, given every other SD show is better, I say save the best for last and give GAB the shot now.

Oh, and when I say "total sitcom", I say kinda like these:




But yours are still good, despite those annoying old effects


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> What mod privileges? Setting the post count to 25 per page? http://www.wrestlingforum.com/profile.php?do=editoptions the option is here for everyone .
> 
> I enjoyed GAB a ton when I watched it for my SD 06 project back in the day, so it's one I'm definitely looking forward to seeing. Though that can be said for like, every SD show in 06 .
> 
> A sitcom would be rather difficult to do on my own .


For fuck sake dude, after subjecting yourself to the utter dreck that is Unforgiven and Cyber Sunday 2006, you HAVE to watch Judgement Day next, HAVE TO. Only Finlay and Benoit delivering careering performances can cleanse that tainted pallet. Or something. Really, I've just always wanted to read Cal reviews of my two all time favorite matches: Eddie/Rey 6/23/05 and Benoit/Finlay JD06'. Make it happen 

Oh yea, I watched Show/McMahons vs DX from Unforgiven after reading you're review. I think I would rate it exactly the same. After the first 5-10 minutes I thought I was gonna give it a DUD rating, as it was mostly boring repetitive shit. THEN business finally picked up when they just started getting super super violent with each other. Hunter bleeding from his ear, then getting busted wide open and bleeding from his face, Shane gushing blood out of his mouth, Vince getting a sled hammer broken over his neck (can't forget that face Vince makes when he realizes the gig is up and DX has him dead to rights). It was just a fun, FUN last 10 minutes or so, which brings it all the way up to a ***1/2 rating from me.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Just started the Raw from 2010 they added on the Network. Opens with Teddy Long and Bret in the ring and an Orton/Edge promo. It's viewer's choice night. They announce the options for Orton/Edge and they're a DEBATE, a PUSH UP CONTEST or a match where Edge has to have one arm tied behind his back because Orton is in a sling. :lmao Crowd kind of pops for 3rd option so it wins. Next we have Big Show vs Jericho. Our options are OVER THE TOP ROPE CHALLENGE, SUBMISSION MATCH OR BODY SLAM CHALLENGE. Body slam challenege wins. ~____~ Big Show hits a body slam, makes Jericho tap and throws him over the ropes. Now we've got the tag titles. Kidd & DH Smith vs....Hornswoggle and Khali. Santino vs Kozlov is a classic DANCE CONTEST. Divas battle royal, at least Maryse and Eve are there. The A Team is doing some ridiculous stuff. 

Then the mail man came with my PWG Threemendous III DVD. Saved my life. God bless the postal service.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Brye said:


> Just started the Raw from 2010 they added on the Network. Opens with Teddy Long and Bret in the ring and an Orton/Edge promo. It's viewer's choice night. They announce the options for Orton/Edge and they're a DEBATE, a PUSH UP CONTEST or a match where Edge has to have one arm tied behind his back because Orton is in a sling. :lmao Crowd kind of pops for 3rd option so it wins. Next we have Big Show vs Jericho. Our options are OVER THE TOP ROPE CHALLENGE, SUBMISSION MATCH OR BODY SLAM CHALLENGE. Body slam challenege wins. ~____~ Big Show hits a body slam, makes Jericho tap and throws him over the ropes. Now we've got the tag titles. Kidd & DH Smith vs....Hornswoggle and Khali. Santino vs Kozlov is a classic DANCE CONTEST. Divas battle royal, at least Maryse and Eve are there. The A Team is doing some ridiculous stuff.
> 
> Then the mail man came with my PWG Threemendous III DVD. Saved my life. God bless the postal service.


How bad was Raw around that time? :lmao holy shit.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone else enjoys Steph's performance at Summerslam?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

2010 was probably my least favorite WWE year of this century thus far. That computer as the general manager thing was awful and I hardly enjoyed any of the storylines they ran. Not to mention Michaels retired, Orton sucked, fat Edge, Sheamus and Swagger pushes coming way too early, etc. Yeah I didn'tlike that year. 

Of course I liked Stephanie's performance at Summerslam. She's been fantastic this year.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

A push up contest? Debate? Dance contest? FFS. :lmao

They really had to add this pile of shit show but they have yet to ANYTHING from 2004 that is not the PPVs. Think I'll wait at least a couple more months for subscribing.

I still look back at 2010 fondly because that's when I became a full-time wrestling fan and that year in general is one of the greatest I've had in my (young) life.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I think they probably see that Smackdown was better in 2004 because HE WHO THE WWE SHALL NOT NAME wasn't there 8*D.

If they're gonna add anything from 2010, make it Superstars or fuck off.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

So we may get Rollins/Ambrose at HIAC next then. Still haven't watched Raw yet, really looking forward to their Street Fight.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Brye said:


> Just started the Raw from 2010 they added on the Network. Opens with Teddy Long and Bret in the ring and an Orton/Edge promo. It's viewer's choice night. They announce the options for Orton/Edge and they're a DEBATE, a PUSH UP CONTEST or a match where Edge has to have one arm tied behind his back because Orton is in a sling. :lmao Crowd kind of pops for 3rd option so it wins. Next we have Big Show vs Jericho. Our options are OVER THE TOP ROPE CHALLENGE, SUBMISSION MATCH OR BODY SLAM CHALLENGE. Body slam challenege wins. ~____~ Big Show hits a body slam, makes Jericho tap and throws him over the ropes. Now we've got the tag titles. Kidd & DH Smith vs....Hornswoggle and Khali. Santino vs Kozlov is a classic DANCE CONTEST. Divas battle royal, at least Maryse and Eve are there. The A Team is doing some ridiculous stuff.
> 
> Then the mail man came with my PWG Threemendous III DVD. Saved my life. God bless the postal service.


One of the worst RAWs with one of the best ending to RAW

NXT Invasion :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The recent Cheap Heat podcast with Mark Henry talking about the schematics and psychology behind a lumberjack match made me appreciate Rollins/Ambrose even more. The rush that I got when the babyfaces caught Rollins from leaving the arena, thus leading the lumberjacks to carry him to the ring and then get splashed on by Ambrose made the match anything but a mess. After thinking about it a couple days, I would put both of their matches this week at *****1/4*. Maybe higher. Love it when wrestling plays with my emotions.

Cal should do Judgment Day, then Backlash, and then the Kennedy/Taker saga. Does anyone else enjoy their Last Ride match, or are the rest of us sane folks in agreement that it was a super boring bout? Something about that stipulation brings the worst out of Taker.


----------



## chargebeam (Jul 12, 2011)

The Shield's documentary on the Network is about to start! :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Honestly I kinda liked the kid shouting in the crowd. Added to the story and the moment even more, ya know? Saw his hero get crushed. Haha


Same. Made me think of Generico vs Steen from BOLA a few years ago. Only that one ended happy b/c Generico can't be brought down. :mark:

--------------

God damn Show & Henry vs Wyatts on Monday was great. Henry trash talked, Harper's mannerisms continued to be off the charts, unusual communication waves between the heels, ROWAN'S BODYSLAM. The whole she-bang.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Better late than never; my thoughts on *SummerSlam 2014*:

Fun opener between Miz and Ziggler. Clocked in at just about the right time because as Cody said working longer matches isn't one of Mizanin's strengths. Enjoyable back and forth sprint with Ziggler finally getting what felt like a meaningful PPV win. Really liked that nearfall off the Skull Crushing Finale. At first I thought Miz completely no sold the Fameasser but on the replay you could tell he kind of ducked under it and it came off beautifully. The moneymaker stuff worked too. Didn't think the match they had on Raw a few weeks ago (or whenever) was anything more than decent. This outing was actually good.

Paige/AJ was pretty good. Definitely better than last month's effort. Paige's aggression and character work was the best stuff I've seen from her since she got called up to the main roster. That finish was dope.

Rusev/Swagger delivered in spades. Totally felt like a big match and both men put in praise worthy performances. Great selling all around, especially from Rusev who is quickly becoming one of my favorite guys to watch. It's a rare thing these days for me to actually care about a mid-card feud but this program has been done really well. Two thumbs up.

I don't think Ambrose/Rollins was great or anything like that but fuck me it was fun as hell. No problems from me about how they used the stipulation. They turned a match type I generally can't stand into something wild and original so they got my appreciation for that. I can see why some people wouldn't like it but I totally dug the chaotic nature of it all and would definitely put it in the 'better than good' category. Can't wait for the next installment. 

Wyatt/Jericho was completely mediocre. I have nothing more to say.

Steph in that outfit! :mark: Steph roughing up Brie! :mark: THAT CUTOFF TO BRIE'S ATTEMPTED DIVE HOLY SHIT!!! :mark: :mark: Stephanie doing MOVEZ~ :mark: Steph selling :mark: HHH bumping for a diva!! :mark: Heel turn from the hotter Bella! :mark: :mark: Seriously though that punch by Nikki looked great. PEDIGREE 1-2-3 :mark: ****3/4

Orton/Reigns was better than I expected it to be. Much better. It wasn't a great match but I thought Orton looked motivated and sharp and I didn't find anything wrong with Roman's performance either. I quite liked the part where Reigns tried to take out Orton with the sleeper (or was it a headlock?). Some of the counters down the stretch were sweet and Orton actually came out of this looking pretty darn good despite a clean loss. Very solid.

The main event was surreal. I don't think much needs to be said about this other than that I basically loved it. Lesnar was incredible. From the ridiculous amount of suplexes, to those vicious knees, to his facials and overall demeanor, to mocking Taker by SITTING UP~!!1!1! and laughing. Man he was a joy to watch. Cena did what was required of him and did it very well. They didn't quite reproduce the magic of Extreme Rules 2012 but it was another one of a kind match between the two. Fuckin awesome. 

Overall I thought it was a great show from top to bottom. Wyatt/Jericho was the only match that disappointed me and even that wasn't BAD. Would definitely re-watch this event.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Better late than never; my thoughts on *SummerSlam 2014*:
> 
> Fun opener between Miz and Ziggler. Clocked in at just about the right time because as Cody said working longer matches isn't one of Mizanin's strengths. Enjoyable back and forth sprint with Ziggler finally getting what felt like a meaningful PPV win. Really liked that nearfall off the Skull Crushing Finale. *At first I thought Miz completely no sold the Fameasser but on the replay you could tell he kind of ducked under it and it came off beautifully.* The moneymaker stuff worked too. Didn't think the match they had on Raw a few weeks ago (or whenever) was anything more than decent. This outing was actually good.
> 
> I don't think Ambrose/Rollins was great or anything like that but fuck me it was fun as hell. No problems from me about how they used the stipulation. They turned a match type I generally can't stand into something wild and original so they got my appreciation for that. I can see why some people wouldn't like it but I totally dug the chaotic nature of it all and would definitely put it in the 'better than good' category. *Can't wait for the next installment.*


- I never looked out for it on the replay but even when it happened live, he made it seem like he took the move, bounced off the mat and just grabbed whatever he could to hit the SCF. Sort of like the Punk/Taker Mania sequence with the GTS and Tombstone. The way he sold it on the cover made it seem that way. Whichever way it was, it still looked great. 

- Wait til you watch RAW. :agree:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Finished Rollins vs Ambrose from RAW. Made up for SummerSlam nonsense. An expected blast, despite some deflating aspects once Kane showed up. Logically, I get it. He has done it before, so whey wouldn't he do it again? But honestly, these interference aren't fine by me. Other times, yes. In other promotions even. Which is a comment on certain Bullet Club interference moments I felt have added to the stories of matches. Kane here though just doesn't work. Rollins is actually gung ho throughout most of the match to take on Ambrose alone. Yet, Kane shows up and all of a sudden its like "oh yeah, he wants help b/c he has it" Feels lazy. Understandable, again, w/the angle they pulled in the end, but I'm just not as enamored w/this certain aspect as I would want to be. Ok, minor negative out of the way, rest of the match totally ruled. Chemistry among the two is heavy & Ambrose will always have that pop w/his current character. Electric. Seth is & always has been so smooth to watch. It's impressive. I'm still impressed after all these years. Table spot wasn't revolutionary, but the chairs spot was a nice bonus to the match. Use of the kendo stick was probably the best gimmick'ed aspect here. Punches used in this were earnest & unrestricted. From both. Awesome merit to their hatred. WWE showed a bit of flexible means w/some aspects, such as the punches (to me, anyways) & Ambrose taking a chair shot in the corner head on like a boss. It was the closest we've gotten to a chair shot to the head since Undertaker vs Trips did it despite being punished. Overall, really good match. Close to great, but I did elaborate on why it didn't hit that level for me. Strong ending to a pretty swell RAW on the whole. Skipping the terrible opening segment, the rest was all gravy.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

> Then the mail man came with my PWG Threemendous III DVD


Dat ladder match kada . 500 stars. That match is off the charts sick.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bucks vs Smash Bros series in PWG was one of the best things in wrestling, ever. 

Oh yeah, I mean it. Tag team wrestling plz.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Fuck everything else,, ZIGGLER and FLAIR were TOGETHER. That's my post for the week


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

A natural pair.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

When did Ziggler get back on your good side?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Never left it. I just don't put over matches if I like someone.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Bucks vs Smash Bros series in PWG was one of the best things in wrestling, ever.
> 
> Oh yeah, I mean it. Tag team wrestling plz.


Yes. Their match at Death to all but Metal is one of my favorite matches of all time. Just nonstop fun and craziness. Rick Knox is the best thing about that match and the Ladder match though lol. Really miss SSB though


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SSB were on par w/Bucks as the best tag team around. I'm sure they still are, b/c talent shouldn't diminish once leaving PWG, but not being booked anymore is a severe loss. They fit into that company like a glove.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Uno did an AMA on Reddit and I think he said they're trying to get back into the states soon but there's still visa issues.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Girlfriend and I just watched the Shield documentary. Really enjoyed it. Loved how in depth they went with Rollins during his ROH and developmental days. Actually they centered most of it around Rollins...

Also watched Main Event from this week. Quite frankly none of the matches are much worth your time but it appears they're (re) building a U.S. Title feud between Sheamus & Cesaro. Complete out of nowhere lazy booking but we'll see what happens. I probably enjoyed Nikki Bella more than anything else on the show. She looked confident in the ring and even hit a version of the disaster kick. Pretty unexpected.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Uno did an AMA on Reddit and I think he said they're trying to get back into the states soon but there's still visa issues.




--------------

only thing to mention on Main Event was Show vs Rowan having a good match. Rowan is a player.

Nikki Bella came out and I said, oh is she gonna beat up Emma? Came back, I was right. Skipped that garbage. Slater Gator beats a real tag team but couldn't beat midgets on Superstars is basically why I kind of hate WWE sometimes. Sheamus vs Axel was just _there_. Axel was working substandard and it was more for a Sheamus highlight than anything, so it never quite stuck out. But certainly a tolerable exhibition match to set up something new for Sheamus & Cesaro. Two dudes who apparently have zero to work around in the company atm. I'm begging for consistency w/this company. They'll never find it.


----------



## RATED-RKO1991 (Dec 23, 2006)

Summerslam 13:
Del Rio/Christian **** 
Punk/Lesnar **** 3/4 
Bryan/Cena **** 3/4 (MOTY)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Upload SHIELD vs Jeribackeamus (if you get what that means); haven't seen it in forever.


*The Shield vs Sheamus, Ryback & Chris Jericho (Raw 02.18.2013)*

x246l7s


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> SSB were on par w/Bucks as the best tag team around. I'm sure they still are, b/c talent shouldn't diminish once leaving PWG, but not being booked anymore is a severe loss. They fit into that company like a glove.


They upload a match or two every now and then on their Youtube account. Bad camera and Uno not pulling weight hasn't done them any favours, sadly.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So according to :meltzer, the original plan for SummerSlam, Bryan/Lesnar, was supposed play out exactly the same as Cena/Lesnar. That sounds fucking incredible and... scary of sorts at the same time.



The Fab Four said:


> *The Shield vs Sheamus, Ryback & Chris Jericho (Raw 02.18.2013)*
> 
> x246l7s


You are a Goddamn Jesus, sir. :bow


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Originally read that as a comment on Uno gaining weight. Now I want FAT UNO & he'll resort to his pause gimmick as not only a way to add to his character in matches, but as a way to catch a breath in-between.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Rollins/Ambrose on Raw was good. Not great or even close to TV MOTY but good and they were right to leave you wanting a lot more from it. Best part of the match was Charles Robinson selling his hand when he had to count a fall on the stage. I always make a point to rag on refs who slam their hands down on concrete, etc during FCA matches and don't sell it anyway but then the wrestlers have to sell hitting the floor like death. Charles Robinson is great. Also a big fan of how they actually gave Ambrose a legit shine segment at the start here. And shockingly as it went on for longer than just a few minutes the crowd started cheering for him. It's probably harsh to compare these matches to Lawler/Dundee for example because they're like peak stuff but if they followed their formula more they'd get their hate for each other over a lot more. Less spots and more punching each other in the nose. But I know it's highly unlikely we'll get that. Superplex spot was fine and I'm glad they didn't have Rollins kick out and made it clear that Ambrose had this won before Kane interfered. Heels interfering at will and babyfaces never making the save is really getting annoying in WWE now. You can just have Kane fight off the likes of Goldust and co. If you saw the Cesaro/Ambrose No DQ match then the middle is pretty much exactly the same in both matches. It's actually the same in any WWE No DQ match in this era. Finish was way too goofy and annoyed me. No need to break the blocks. Just kills the heat of the move when you make it look wacky like that. *


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

I watched The Shield doco as well and it was pretty good. Speaking of which, what happened to the Network sticky?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Twisted14 said:


> I watched The Shield doco as well and it was pretty good. Speaking of which, what happened to the Network sticky?


The Smackdown section is now for SD AND The Network, so no need for 1 thread for it any more .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thought this may interest people, Regal/Bryan from 2001:

*William Regal vs American Dragon (Bryan Danielson) (MCW 05.05.2001)*

x246xti


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hey Cal, are you into another ramble atm?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nope, don't think I'll be doing another today. Definitely won't be 2morrow as I like, actually have plans. Outside of my house. With people.

Today I'm focusing more on my game. Wanna add running, double jumping and long jump while running to it today if I can.

Fab Four, damn, I haven't seen that Danielson/Regal match in like forever. Might have to watch it for old times sake .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well good for you then. Cal being socially active different here 8*D.

But anyway, me and my girlfriend are sitting down and watching the Shield doc. Hope it's worth it given how we both loved Bryan's doc (plus, I only payed $0.00 for it 8*D). Mixing wrasslin' w/romance. Winner formula :yes.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Shield doc is awesome, just finished it and I totally loved it. Dean Ambrose man, what a freaking character. If WWE just let's him be himself, he won't fail. Impossible. It's on WWE too keep their filthy mits off of him and let Dean be Dean. 

Need something to watch, anyone got a recommendation?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Check your rep, Chris


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Flux said:


> Check your rep, Chris



Oh hell yea dude that sounds amazing on paper, def gonna watch it right meow. Thanks 

I did just discover that WWE put the Angle/Taker Smackdown 2003 match up in Hi Def on the Network in the Video Vault section. Gonna have to give that the old rewatch at some point, haven't watched it recently.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Angle/Taker SD 03 in HD? Well, that's fecking awesome!

Just watching the Shield Journey to SummerSlam doc. Great stuff so far! We need more of these for sure, I just hope they never use these as a replacement for DVD/Bluray documentaries.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> Angle/Taker SD 03 in HD? Well, that's fecking awesome!
> 
> Just watching the Shield Journey to SummerSlam doc. Great stuff so far! We need more of these for sure, I just hope they never use these as a replacement for DVD/Bluray documentaries.


I know it's pretty random. All these other matches in the Video Vault section are big time PPV matches everyone's seen a million times, like Punk/Brock, Cena/Brock ER, TLC II, Austin/Bret WM 13, etc. I check there today and they added Angle/Taker Smackdown September 7,.2003. Odd fit tbh 

Wish they would put in the Brock/Benoit and Benoit/Austin SD matches in HD. I plan on renewing my current subscription, but if they don't start adding more seasons of Smackdown, Raw, Nitro, and Thunder I'll be pissed. If they could just put up all of Smackdown 2003 & 2006 and Raw 2001 & 2004 I'll be quite pleased.

The Necro Butcher/Danielson match you sent me Flux is off the freaking hook, I like it almost as much as the Necro/Samoa Joe match you sent me a few months ago. Just freaking BRUTAL offense from Danielson and some wonderful selling by the Butcher. Really odd pairing that just goes to show styles don't matter one bit if you have CHEMISTRY and are good. I'd easily give that match **** and could go higher if they got some more time.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

You weren't kidding when you said that sounded great on paper. I would love to see that and do not doubt for a second it will be anything less than good.

The best wrestler of this "generation" against someone not too far behind on that totem pole. May be a far out opinion, but one I hold nontheless. Why the fuck they never wrestled during the CZW/RoH feud I will never know. Necro got his hands on Whitmer who, while a strong hand in the feud, was really bad in their barbed wire singles blowoff.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

As i hardly know anything about PWG, i didn't realize Necro/Danielson was on the same PPV as Generico/Danielson. 

Mind you, im not a fan of Necro, so.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, me and girlfriend just watched the Shield doc moments ago, and speaking for both of us, we both really enjoyed it. I'm gonna say that I liked Bryan's doc more, but this one was still really good. WWE, keep bringing those hits. Wonder if they're doing Journeys to Royal Rumble too.

Also, decided to rewatch Orton/Reigns earlier today and, yeah, went up 1/4* (now at ***) thanks mostly because Orton was beastly good and because Reigns' selling came off better than I originally thought actually, despite the horribly slow pace at the 1st 8 or 9 mins of the match. Rewatched both Ambrose/Rollins matches from SS and Raw too - Raw is still a MOTYC for me, SS is still great and I still personally disagree the idea that it's a mess given how I personally thought it was about as good as it could've possibly been, and that everything made sense except for the lumberjacks fighting inside the ring at the end, which I thought was stupid, but still loved the match.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Henry and Rusev should be interesting. Big E and Rusev had some smashmouth, physical athletic matches and now with Rusev improving at a very rapid rate (this guy is a hell of an after effect seller) and with Henry being Henry this has a whole lot of potential and a benefit is that this could be good if Rusev feeds into Henry's offense for a longer match or even a five minute slugfest/clash would be a good one. Henry can hold his own in playing a storyline part too so this should be an interesting feud to watch.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Fab Four said:


> As i hardly know anything about PWG, i didn't realize Necro/Danielson was on the same PPV as Generico/Danielson.
> 
> Mind you, im not a fan of Necro, so.



I haven't seen much Necro Butcher tbh, maybe 7-8 matches total, but they have all been great and he's been great in them. I don't watch Deathmatches or the Ultra Violent stuff, so the matches I've seen with him were more the No DQ street fight type affair and he excels in that atmosphere. Great, great punches. Some of the best in the business. Unbelievable bumps, very believable selling. Those are some of the qualities from him that stand out to me. Oh, and gritty realism, he manages to inflict enough punishment on himself in all the matches I've seen that everything becomes more real, sort of Foley-esque in that regard where you're belief is suspended by the pain he allows to be inflicted on him.

You want to see punishment? Watch that incredible Street Fight he had with Samoa Joe. One of the most insane things I've ever seen, far more brutal than some razor blades or barbed wire, he finds a way to get his face smashed into concrete in some very inventive ways. I legit thought he might be dead after one of the bumps he took.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

WCW Clash Of The Champions 34:

*WCW Cruiserweight Champion Ultimo Dragon (w/Sonny Oono) vs. Dean Malenko* ***1/2
*Scotty Riggs vs. Mike Enos* DUD
*Chris Jericho, Super Calo & Chavo Guerrero Jr. vs. Konnan, La Parka & JL* **1/2
*Harlem Heat (w/Sister Sherri) vs. Renegade & Joe Gomez* 1/2*
*Masahiro Chono vs. Alex Wright* *
*WCW U.S. Heavyweight Champion Eddie Guerrero vs. Scott Norton* *3/4
*Chris Benoit (w/Woman) vs. Kevin Sullivan (w/Jimmy Hart) – Falls Count Anywhere* **1/2
*Rick & Scott Steiner vs. The Amazing French Canadians (w/Col. Robert Parker)* *1/2
*Lex Luger vs. Scott Hall (w/Kevin Nash & Syxx)* **

Onto Souled Out now. Yay.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Good luck Hitman. You're gonna need it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Need something to watch, anyone got a recommendation?


you seen Blondes/Scorpio & Bagwell (the best one)?

--------------

Necro is fucking great. Best Moondog of all time.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> you seen Blondes/Scorpio & Bagwell (the best one)?
> 
> --------------
> 
> Necro is fucking great. Best Moondog of all time.


No, I haven't seen that match, which event is it from? Scorpio was rockin in 1993 and the Blondes are always excellent.

Finished rewatching Angle/Taker SD 2003. Have to say, it's comfortably in my personal top 5 for greatest TV matches ever. I think I prefer it even to their NWO 2006 classic, which is saying a lot because I think VERY highly of that bout.

Off the top of my head, here is how my top 5 would look:

1. Eddie/Rey 6/23/05
2. Benoit/Austin SD 01'
3. Taker/Angle SD 03'
4. Benoit/Lesnar SD 03'
5. Power Trip vs Benoit/Jericho Raw 01'


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

http://www.dailymotion.com/playlist/x2smng_TSteck160_wcw-worldwide-5-9-93/1#video=x13bv1t


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

They're doing Henry/Rusev? I'm all about that shit. What else looks likely for Night of Champions other than the confirmed Cena/Brock rubber match?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/playlist/x2smng_TSteck160_wcw-worldwide-5-9-93/1#video=x13bv1t



Gracias sir, appreciate it


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Necro Butcher is a GOD.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Man, AJ appears to be straight killing it over in NJPW. Today I've watched his 5/25/14 match vs Okada, and his G1 Climax matches vs Suzuki (unbelievable) and Okada (can't decide whether this or the Suzuki match is better). Has he had any other classics since he left TNA? I heard he was main eventing some indie shows vs Chris Hero and that sounds like quite a snazzy matchup.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

His match vs Tanahashi on the Final day of the G-1 was fantastic. Nearly every match he had during the G-1 was great.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Hero match is ROH's best match on the year. Actually a compliment, as it felt it was great.

Styles vs Okada series is overblown. Only one of them I felt was at any level of being low end good. Suzuki match I've discussed why I don't care all that much for it. MiSu was a boss during it, but funked up logic just ruined it all. So stupid. Styles vs Naito is what you need to see. Been my favorite match of the tournament. Styles also had better matches w/Tenzan & Yano than some of the others listed. The Tenzan match is honestly great. Don't watch the match vs Goto. Bland until the final three minutes become hot. Styles vs Archer was really good, though. Actually was what Styles vs MiSu should have been the night before. Only w/a giant vs average guy dynamic thrown in.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Hayley, you didn't like the ref bump and AJ "being concerned" iirc? That's easily explainable after I watched it again a couple days ago. AJ checked on the ref for < 5 seconds before he gets hit from behind by TAKA. Totally logical for him to be concerned since this is a tournament and he wants to win. He obviously doesn't want to be dq'ed because he was the one who flew into the ref. I have no problems with that whatsoever since it was such a short time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't need any other justifications for what I saw. Bullet Club acting babyface is about the dumbest route they could have went. Not a fan.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

I fail to see where they acted like babyfaces but whatever. Not about justifications either, that spot was just logic.


----------



## -Skullbone- (Sep 20, 2006)

Don't want to disrupt the flow of discussion, but I'm having a bit of a gasbag here. Feel free to move around me. 



The Fab Four said:


> Thought this may interest people, Regal/Bryan from 2001:
> 
> *William Regal vs American Dragon (Bryan Danielson) (MCW 05.05.2001)*
> 
> x246xti


Sweet matchup. Topped it off with Regal/Cesaro in NXT to see the differences between the villainous and heroic veteran roles that Regal plays. The best thing I think when he engages in those types of narratives is that he knows what makes his younger opponents unique and what gets them over. In each respective case, it was Danielson's 'diamond in the rough' and relatively unknown demeanor at the time, while it was Cesaro's technicality and superior brute strength that makes people take note. Youth and enthusiasm triumphing over the wiles and cunning of an old veteran was the key motif throughout, which makes it more satisfying as despite Regal's midcard/lowcard position in company standings, he's always making sure that the key reasons as to why these budding sprouts won are highlighted.

One or two comments on Youtube raised my eyebrow. I understand that people are scared of being bored by technical/chain wrestling, but for all this talk about in-ring stories being quintessential to WWE it would seem some can't see a story taking shape in the Cesaro and Regal match. That's in spite of what the commentators are putting over, as well as what both guys obviously trying to put together a narrative. It's either they can't see it or they put the shutters on and refuse to.

You're free not to like a match or think it's boring, but if you consider yourself even slightly perceptive as to what goes on in a ring, you should be able to at acknowledge that something is being communicated. I don't know what favoritism should have to do with that.

I also just saw the Lesnar and Cena match at Summerslam and, like the general consensus, I largely loved it. There are a couple of thoughts about what transpired though. For starters, I fell into the camp that believed the reason Cena snuck a win at ER 2012 was because McMahon and co. were worried about Brock's commitment to the company in the long term. Understandable from a business perspective, but what wasn't so understandable in my eyes is why they sprinted through a very hot program at the time in paranoia. I think a lot of the appeal the match-up had was...revisited in this most recent match which results a couple of undesirable outcomes. 

Firstly, the dynamic lost a little of its uniqueness. Cena being dominated the way he was is a rarity, and the fact is we've seen it twice now from the same guy makes it appear a little benign when it could've meant so much more had it been done just ONCE. On top of that, it makes it look like the Cena character hasn't learned from his previous encounter with Brock in 2012. If anything, it makes it look like he's regressed because he got thumped AND lost this time. That shouldn't what stands out when talking about a 15 time champ. A 15 time champ should not be presented as a dummy. It also puts a bit of a bad odor on the opponents Cena's faced recently and beaten. 

The fact that this is being followed up with another PPV match tells me that this might be the program they wanted to work initially. The likelihood that Cena will actually have a game plan this time and be seen as a more substantial threat come Survivor Series is pretty high, and the match up will probably be on a more levelled playing field. As a revisionist however, it kills me to say what a waste Brock and Cena turned out to be at ER 2012. I think what occurred at Summerslam would be treated as a much bigger commodity had the match and the outcome not occurred two years prior. You'd also have Brock being treated as one of, if not the hottest forces in WWE history, rather than a guy whose had his legacy tainted by a couple of losses. You'd also have a substantially bigger rub for the lucky bastard who gets to beat Brock clean in the future, whoever it might be. 

Just my two cents though!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Oh hell yea dude that sounds amazing on paper, def gonna watch it right meow. Thanks
> 
> I did just discover that WWE put the Angle/Taker Smackdown 2003 match up in Hi Def on the Network in the Video Vault section. Gonna have to give that the old rewatch at some point, haven't watched it recently.


Hell yeah man, never seen that match. Thanks for the heads up. (Y)



The Fab Four said:


> WCW Clash Of The Champions 34:
> 
> *WCW Cruiserweight Champion Ultimo Dragon (w/Sonny Oono) vs. Dean Malenko* ***1/2
> *Scotty Riggs vs. Mike Enos* DUD
> ...


This is somehow the only COTC I've ever seen in full and it sucks.  Guerrero vs. Norton could've been legit awesome if they had more time though. I was super annoyed with the no selling in Malenko/Dragon.



Saint Dick said:


> They're doing Henry/Rusev? I'm all about that shit. What else looks likely for Night of Champions other than the confirmed Cena/Brock rubber match?


After watching Main Event, it seems like they're gonna pull the trigger on another Sheamus/Cesaro match for the U.S. Title. Lazy booking. Usos will likely defend against the Dust Brothers unless some other team sneak in to make it a 3 or 4-way.

EDIT: And a likely Miz/Ziggler rematch. Possibly with a stipulation? Submission match? Falls count anywhere? I also imagine the 3rd installment of Wyatt/Jericho with a definite stip added. The question is which one... Wyatt has been in many this year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ah yes. The baffling community of Youtube comments. Everyone eventually has to read a few. Need to watch th6t Danielson vs Regal match later. No Youtube comments needed; all success. (I like to imagine)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Only thing that beats YouTube comments are the ones in this forum. People talking about how Brock Lesnar of all people has no sense of psychology :lol


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Saint Dick said:


> They're doing Henry/Rusev? I'm all about that shit. What else looks likely for Night of Champions other than the confirmed Cena/Brock rubber match?


Rematches.

Lesnar/Cena, Reigns/Orton, Miz/Ziggler, Paige/AJ... then you have Henry/Rusev, which should be at least decent, probably good. Nikki/Brie, Swagger/Dallas, Sheamus/Cesaro all forming. Plus, something with the tag titles cause how can you not have the fucking tag champs on Night of Champions?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I like how Brie vs Nikki is more likely to be booked than an Usos match to make the actual PPV :ti


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Hell yeah man, never seen that match. Thanks for the heads up. (Y)


And share your thoughts on it, plz.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Why they gotta do the best tag team in the company wrong? I must be the only one here that recognizes their title reign as a good one. NoC doesn't look good at all, especially when the 2014 WOTY is AWOL. And Sheamus should be dropping the title to Rusev, not picking up an insignificant win against Cesaro. Bah, I'm holding out hope that Rusev saves another PPV.

Souled Out sucks, but Superbrawl VII looks interesting. I remember kinda enjoying Malenko/Syxx, but Malenko was very bad on offense. I think I liked the lucha tag and Mysterio/Nakamake, but Prince was garbage in everything I've seen him in. Jericho/Eddie needs no explanation. Triple Threat tag might be ok if Meng mengs out. Bagwell/DDP is good. And then the rest of the show sucks in typical WCW fashion. Actually maybe this show isn't interesting. God dammit WCW, why do you have to suck so much when it counts?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> And share your thoughts on it, plz.


Just finished it. Not sure what the consensus view on it is but I didn't think it was anything too special. Fun back and forth match but I was hoping for more of a story surrounding Taker's dislocated wrist. Wished Angle had focused on that. There was no real control segments, so that kinda sucked. A couple of the counters were pretty nifty but Angle spammed the fuck out of the ankle lock and did that thing where he kicks out of the pin attempt WAY too late and you can see the ref stop his hand before his shoulder comes up. Again, fun TV match with a bunch of finishers and submission reversals but nothing standout. Rating for it? Maybe *** 1/4? I don't know.

Wanted to watch some SHIELD stuff I haven't seen after seeing the documentary last night that got me jazzed up for it. Watched Taker vs. Ambrose from Smackdown and Rollins vs. Goldust from Main Event last year. Little disappointed in both. Goldust/Rollins had its moments but they're capable of much more. Goldie needs to start wrestling in singles again at times. Taker/Ambrose really never got a chance to get going.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wait is that the Undertaker vs Angle WWE Championship match that happens a few weeks before Angle vs Brock Iron Man? The one Brock stopped and that is why Taker didn't win the Championship that night. That match is like, nearly perfect.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I have it at ****1/4, did you happen to catch the sudden transition from wrestling match to brawl with Taker's powerful right hand. Defo my favorite moment of the match, helped with Cole and Tazz not half-assing the commentary. I think Taker's selling justifies the numerous ankle locks. Wasn't there a control segment right after Taker knocks Angle with the right hand? Though you wouldn't even notice with all the commercial breaks. Anyways, different strokes for different folks.

I just watched Cena vs Sandow from last year, infamous cash-in. Wasn't feeling it all, lol @ the praise it gets. Sandow isn't very good in the ring.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sandow was great at presenting his newfound aggression in that match. I loved the "rise above this" line. He's not great, but when he isn't stuck working lengthy matches for the sake of being lengthy, Sandow is solid. Great comedic timing, crowd interaction, and bumping too. I'm a fan.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I hate you santa claus man with bloody face sig. You mean.


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

Just got done watching Vengance 05 for the first time in forever (possibly since it aired :hmm and hoooly shit it was fantastic. I enjoyed 100% of what I saw, considering I skipped the Diva match.

Was surprised at how damn entertaining Edge/Kane was. Of course the Triple Threat and HBK/Kurt were both awesome, but MOTN had to go to the HITC. Absolutley brutal.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nobody cares about Sandow. It was John-boy who made that match.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I like Sandow, but the fact that people are blaming Cena for the fact that he's a jobber is :hayden3

With all the reports that NoC was supposed to be stacked because of network subscriptions, I'm not so impressed with the way the card is most likely going to shape up. Is Reigns/HHH going to happen at Survivor Series now? Why wasn't SummerSlam the blowoff for feuds with little heat like Wyatt vs. Jericho? Eh, whatever. Just gonna wait for Bryan and Ambrose to be back


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Jericho/Eddie needs no explanation.


Yeah it does. It's boring.


What the fook is Nakamake? :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The guy that Regal jobbed to for no good reason.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Random Eaton mention of the night. He bumps hard in the start, beats up Sting well following & then SHENANIGANS happen that can make us all laugh. And hey, Easton still leaves the match vs the Champion looking...or well booked solid.

I feel like pulling a Cal atm and doing a ramble on a random show. Something from 98 or 99 even. Might do a WCW 99 bit. Something where I preferably remember little to nothing at all on the show. We'll see if I go through w/this.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

SHENANIGANS is overbooking, yeah?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Shenanigans can never be typecast.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I do care about Sandow, and he made the match just as much as Cena did. Unless Cena was the one who targeted his own injured arm about as much as he could w/excellent timing. Cena sold it excellently, but don't fuck around w/giving him all the praise. Even though I already know you're extremely pro-Cena, Cody. 

Someone else I care about that everyone should too is :barrett, and I believe he too had a really good match w/Cena @ Hell In A Cell 2010 iirc. Only that he won instead of Sandow. Even if it lead to nothing. FUCK. THAT. CHAIRS. MATCH. AT TLC.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

People aren't denying characteristics of certain wrestlers being good, but it's the opponent (Cena) that is creating an environ (calling a match) that hides the flaws and accentuates the positives of his opponents. It's kind of why those guys have only looked really good against certain opponents. Put them against a Kofi Kingston or Ryder, for the same amount of time, and the quality will be nowhere close.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

In Barrett's case, he's had plenty of other really good stuff, even if, again, against superior workers than him. Sandow on the other hand I can understand that argument. What I was saying is that Cena is getting all the merit for the work in that Cena/Sandow match, making it like Sandow got nothing there. Again, understandable why, but I was trying to bring up surface that Sandow did get something, targeting the arm about as nicely and well timed as he could, even going as far as busting some tricks he had never showed before (i.e. Crossface). Cena called the shots, sold the arm and created an aura around the match, obviously for good merit; but in my mind Sandow deserves at the very least minimal praise too.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

If I'm remembering the right match, and guy, he upped the ante and worked as if it was his moment to shine. Guy has entertained me to no end during his man of a thousand gimmick phase, though. Dressing as a hipster and not the expected gimmick, for the lumberjack match, was class. Maybe because I had just before the match been sent this image, and Sandow had thought of it, too:



Spoiler: image


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> People aren't denying characteristics of certain wrestlers being good, but it's the opponent (Cena) that is creating an environ (calling a match) that hides the flaws and accentuates the positives of his opponents. It's kind of why those guys have only looked really good against certain opponents. Put them against a Kofi Kingston or Ryder, for the same amount of time, and the quality will be nowhere close.


Easiest rebuttal ever. Didn't even have to write it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Dean Ambrose vs Seth Rollins (Falls Count Anywhere) (Raw 08.18.2014)*



* Credit to kidzombie for original upload


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Watching Starrcade 89 after picking up my ppv watch again and I love the format. I'm a sucker for a tournament show. Doom vs. Steiner Brothers was good and I was loving Sting/Luger until that sloppy finish.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Sandow absolutely deserves a good deal of praise in the WHC Cena match. His offense was excellent, and Cena sold well. Actually, it was Cena who annoyed me a bit with kicking out of both of Sandow's finishers almost immediately after the ref got to "2" (that and of course, lolcenawins). That and there were some issues with the match and I think it could've been stretched out a bit more, but overall the combined effort of the two men made it one hell of a match, and the crowd was very into it. Sandow's had other good-great lengthy matches, but as I've said a thousand times, his lengthy matches are few and far between. I can't say with absolute certainty, but I'm pretty sure his last 5 matches combined don't amount to 15 minutes worth of in-ring time. Sandow's _good_ in the ring, not great. And Cena can be great in certain instances, like when he actually sells like in the Sandow match and Lesnar matches.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Doesn't Cena normally let other wrestlers call spots along with him?


----------



## -Skullbone- (Sep 20, 2006)

I think Sandow is a largely unremarkable worker who is reliable and can be a good hand with the right guy. I think he's a prime example of how people are molded by the WWE developmental system actually. He's spent, what, like 5 years down there right, as well as time in a few other circuits? 

This is not usually how I go about things, but I dislike his praise as being a possible main event player. It would take a lot for me to get on board the idea of him being a top guy. That isn't just in response to his current comedy character either.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Cena is good in timing his kickouts to build suspense when it matters. Sandow is nowhere close to Cena's level and his finishers aren't either. Sandow was booked to lose and was not going to be kept going as a main eventer. That is why Cena presented his kickouts at the two second mark. 

He may not be able to keep Cena down to almost winning, but keeping the biggest star in the company down for two, despite largely being Mr Irrelevant was good enough (let us also disregard the flawed "but post PPV selling" copout). Not bad for a guy who was made to look like a chump by Cody, flailing in the bay and half drowning in saving his briefcase.

From then on, Sandow was in a couple of prominently placed trios matches against Cena/Rhodes Bros, tagging with the white hot Real Americans. He should have come out of this programme looking like a better fit for the midcard than he had been. Except, largely in part to how illogical a lot of viewers/posters are in their hatred for Cena, Sandow was labeled as being buried by Cena and another use of the "lolCenawins" misnomer for WWE booking became common place. Sandow was derided as being a joke by fans and relegated to bottom feeder, again.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Doesn't Cena normally let other wrestlers call spots along with him?


Calling spots =/= match timing and structure etc


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

I've been hot and cold with Sandow as well. Although, it's roughly consistent: 

Sandow in a comedy role = "Aw, he's not so bad." bama

Sandow wrestling in a real match = "Dear God, make it stop" fpalm

That period last year, feuding with Cody and Sheamus, was a total disaster. Some of the vignettes/segments were funny (Gordian Knot), but the matches were _bad_. I'm with Marston in saying I never really understood the praise for his cash-in on Cena. Standard arm work from Sandow (which, iirc, included a pet peeve spot of mine). I wasn't really buying the seriousness of his character, and found the whole cash-in to be a very pointless angle/story. It was better than most of his work before or after, but it's like going from **-*** stars; big whoop. He's a funny guy and all, but keep him away from long(ish) matches.

--

Summerslam Thoughts:

Jericho/Wyatt, Paige/AJ were nothing to write home about. Missed the pre-show, so need to catch the Cesaro match at some point.

Rusev/Swagger - despite WWE re-writing the history of this feud, and despite the stipulation being impossible to follow, it was damn good. Rusev's kick on Zeb was :lol, as was Rusev's bicycle-superkick. Swagger's rib sell was not great, but the more I thought about it, the rib sell was pretty standard, it was just Rusev selling that ankle that made Jack's rib sell look subpar. I just knew Rusev would still be gimping around on Raw, what a boss. ***1/2

Rollins/Ambrose - I actually enjoyed the story, as I saw it, and thought it made up for some of the execution/messy nature of the match. The obvious point of a Lumberjack Match is to keep the competitors *in* the ring. Rollins (and more specifically, Ambrose) showed how impossible it is to contain the animosity between them. Straightforward enough, and really glad they got the Raw ME to have a more focused match between the two. ***1/2

Orton/Reigns - didn't hate it, didn't love it. If I felt like being harsh, I could point out that despite months of practice, the result was a mostly average match. I don't, so I'll say this: the match developed into a solid crescendo, and everything after the Superplex was pretty good. Reigns needs more work, but this wasn't bad. ***1/4

Brie/Steph - Brie, why you gotta be so pathetic as a face? Steph's presence overpowered Brie's and I didn't really get the match. Steph hugging her kids. IDK, it didn't make a _lot_ of sense as a match, but it was fun. Nice elbow from Nikki and hilarious sell from HHH. **1/2

Cena/Brock - Loved it. Match had a purpose, and it executed. Every time Cena even got a an ounce of momentum, it was put out with the trash. Brock doesn't need a ropebreak; Brock needs to smash! It was quite good - a couple of those 65 German Suplexes had rough landings. Some Cena sympy was creeping in. Not perfect, but damn good. ****


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Rah said:


> Cena is good in timing his kickouts to build suspense when it matters. Sandow is nowhere close to Cena's level and his finishers aren't either. Sandow was booked to lose and was not going to be kept going as a main eventer. That is why Cena presented his kickouts at the two second mark.


That's still ridiculous though for Cena, a weakened Cena for that matter, to kick out of two finishers like nothing.

Edit: Also, Sandow does work well in long matches. The few that he's had with Orton, Christian, Cena have all been decent at worst, good-great at best. His match with Cody at SS was solid, and despite the hate, his match with Truth on Main Event that he won this year was actually decent entirely on his work. He absolutely deserves a main event spot because he can do what 90% of the roster can't do, and that's carry a feud (as he did against Cody and Sheamus, which were both fun and down to him entirely. He can also have a great match when it matters.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> I have it at ****1/4, did you happen to catch the sudden transition from wrestling match to brawl with Taker's powerful right hand. Defo my favorite moment of the match, helped with Cole and Tazz not half-assing the commentary. I think Taker's selling justifies the numerous ankle locks. Wasn't there a control segment right after Taker knocks Angle with the right hand? Though you wouldn't even notice with all the commercial breaks. Anyways, different strokes for different folks.
> 
> I just watched Cena vs Sandow from last year, infamous cash-in. Wasn't feeling it all, lol @ the praise it gets. Sandow isn't very good in the ring.


Oh yeah, Taker's selling was great, I just tend to get annoyed when Angle spams the move so much. Especially when he was laid out from the triangle choke and they had the cool moment where his hand went down for the 3rd time but his foot hit the ropes too. Right after that he stood up, Taker charged him for a big boot, missed and got caught in the ropes, then Angle grabbed for another ankle lock. Wasn't feelin that. Now the first time where Taker drops the leg drop and Angle catches him and rolls it over into the ankle lock, now THAT was cool. I think after Taker used the right hand he took Angle to the outside and worked over him a little bit on the apron, but it didn't last long. Don't get me wrong, I didn't hate the match at all, it just wasn't a MOTYC or anything like that at all for me. A fun TV match with a TV ending.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Totally disagree that the arm work by Sandow on Cena in that cash-in match was "standard". Sandow himself is a rather standard wrestler, so him attacking the arm about as much as he could and did came off as a genuine surprise to me personally. And even not in his best matches, I never understood what's so bad about him. He's always been an average/decentish wrestler in my books.

But I say let's move on from the Sandow hate here, since it's getting quite annoying :side:. We should get back on the Reigns hate 8*D 8*D 8*D.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Hey Mr. Zep, did you notice how often WCW would have wrestlers use the tombstone piledriver during your 1996 project? And where would I find episodes of WCW Main Event, WCW Pro, and WCW Prime?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

ATF said:


> We should get back on the Reigns hate 8*D 8*D 8*D.


Agreed. 8*D 

But seriously, now there's a guy who really needs the absolute perfect opponent to have even just a good match, he can't cut a promo well, and he's the next top star from the looks of it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Hey Mr. Zep, did you notice how often WCW would have wrestlers use the tombstone piledriver during your 1996 project? And where would I find episodes of WCW Main Event, WCW Pro, and WCW Prime?


 Yeah, seemed like just a normal move to them, also when a wrestler throws the other in the air and he lands on his face, alot used that one too.

Dunno where to find those shows tbh, I only been watching Nitro/PPV's/COTC.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> That's still ridiculous though for Cena, a weakened Cena for that matter, to kick out of two finishers like nothing.
> 
> Edit: Also, Sandow does work well in long matches. The few that he's had with* Orton, Christian, Cena* have all been decent at worst, good-great at best. His match with Cody at SS was solid, and despite the hate, his match with Truth on Main Event that he won this year was actually decent entirely on his work. He absolutely deserves a main event spot because he can do what 90% of the roster can't do, and that's carry a feud (as he did against Cody and Sheamus, which were both fun and down to him entirely. He can also have a great match when it matters.


His best matches, against the very best pairings on the roster are - at best - good? I rest my case. The problem with the Cody/Sheamus feuds was that Sandow _was supposed to be the heel._ Instead, he ended up the comical class clown, and the faces as sore sports. All wrong. I've not seen the R-Truth match, maybe I'll give it a go.



ATF said:


> Totally disagree that the arm work by Sandow on Cena in that cash-in match was "standard". Sandow himself is a rather standard wrestler, so him attacking the arm about as much as he could and did came off as a genuine surprise to me personally. And even not in his best matches, I never understood what's so bad about him. He's always been an average/decentish wrestler in my books.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know how else to describe it. It was very standard arm work against an opponent who had an injured arm. He was right to go after it, but wasn't unique or memorable for me. The pet peeve spot is the one where you raise the opponents arm and swing it down on the steps. If you don't twist the arm, or lock onto the wrist first (which hardly anyone does), you're just holding his hand and swinging the arm into its natural range of motion, meat-side down. It makes no sense, and just sloppy all around. You may as well slap the steps your-damn-self. Not to say he can't get better, or that ill never change my mind on him.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I don't think he's THAT bad, he was able to have solidly good singles matches already in only two occasions (vs Bryan last year and vs Orton at SS, even if from 80 to 95% of the merit for those should go to Bryan and Orton respectively) and I wouldn't say he is a Godawful mic worker, albeit one that does come off very forced imo. He's had his moments in that department. Though in the mic Rollins is much better (even if he's only decent) and Ambrose is galaxies above him. But yeah, the fact that he is going to be the next top star scares me atm.

Anyway, we should discuss actual good stuff now. Which of the two Raw Sheamus/Barrett matches from this year did you like the most? IC tournament or MITB qualifier? (The SD one was solid too, btw)


----------



## -Skullbone- (Sep 20, 2006)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> That's still ridiculous though for Cena, a weakened Cena for that matter, to kick out of two finishers like nothing.
> 
> Edit: Also, Sandow does work well in long matches. The few that he's had with Orton, Christian, Cena have all been decent at worst, good-great at best. His match with Cody at SS was solid, and despite the hate, his match with Truth on Main Event that he won this year was actually decent entirely on his work. He absolutely deserves a main event spot because he can do what 90% of the roster can't do, and that's carry a feud (as he did against Cody and Sheamus, which were both fun and down to him entirely. He can also have a great match when it matters.


Speaking of Truth, I think people should pay him a little bit more respect as to what his role is in the company as well. There's a reason why he often gets the job with the budding performers. He's hugely athletic and personality-driven, heels can look vicious and uncompromising against him when he's been shut down and he can work a comeback segment well. 

I have to question the idea of Sandow deserving a main event spot. Why? Because he's a great talker? He's great in his the shoes of his character, make no mistake. But what is his character exactly? An intellectual? A condescending snob? He sounds funny and pompous for sure, but that delivery and prose is where his strengths lie. That 'serious' promo he did when he angrily argued not to be underestimated shortly after he lost the briefcase was strong. It wasn't what the guy has built his game around though. He lost some of what made him 'Damien Sandow' and became rather generic with that promo. I was watching it and thinking where can he be taken to as a personality from here? I didn't really have an answer, and apparently WWE didn't either. His work against Cody and Sheamus was good because it was back to him playing to his strengths of a loquacious, yet largely bumbling buffoonish heel. 

Also, I'm a believer in possessing 'a' look (not necessary 'the' look). There have been exceptions of course with this argument, but if you were to couple the character of Damien Sandow with the look of a 6'4, ordinary looking bloke with a beard, a robe and air conducting 'Hallelujah' you don't get the vision of a WWE main eventer. The ring work argument is fine if he's being paired with guys who are very experienced in orchestrating the happenings of a match (I love *Rah*'s description of it being an 'environ') to produce something worthy of 10+ minutes. If he were to be a main-event wrestler though, it would be his time to eventually help guide a future up and comer to their biggest moment. From what I've seen of Sandow in his time as Idol Stevens as well as some stuff in FCW, I can't say I'm convinced he'll ever help someone have that true 'starmaking' moment in ring.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

JustJoel said:


> His best matches, against the very best pairings on the roster are - at best - good? I rest my case. The problem with the Cody/Sheamus feuds was that Sandow _was supposed to be the heel._ Instead, he ended up the comical class clown, and the faces as sore sports. All wrong. I've not seen the R-Truth match, maybe I'll give it a go.
> 
> 
> 
> .


His best matches against those 3 men were each great, and I wouldn't call any of them the "very best pairings" on the roster except maybe Christian . Cena and Orton are very hit or miss. 

I agree with what happened in the feuds, but Sandow still made it work. And while no doubt he can shine whenever he's allowed to be comical/ condescending, he can also make serious promos work just as well. WWE has made him extremely one dimensional though and that ultimately is what makes it impossible for Sandow to look like he could be in a main event spot, or showcase anything period.

On Reigns, only good match was against Bryan. All other matches were decent at the very best, including the Orton match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Sandow is like Ziggler imo. Both of them are perfect as midcarders but that's their ceiling. I like Sandow way more than Ziggler but I don't think he's any different from Zigs in terms of how far he can go. They just aren't credible enough and you may say that's down to booking but I don't think so. Not everybody can be a main event star and I don't see the problem with that. I also think they've had about a handful of matches each that I would call 'great' and Zigs probably has Sandow beat in that regard. This new wave of Shield guys, Wyatt etc are all going to pass them by imo.

And I still haven't watched Summerslam yet 8*D although I've managed to catch bits and pieces. 

:brock 

If he loses at NOC then I just might actually get mad at the wrasslin for once because fuck that shit. Funnily enough the last time I got mad was when Cena beat Brock at ER12 lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> If he loses at NOC then I just might actually get mad at the wrasslin for once because fuck that shit. Funnily enough the last time I got mad was when Cena beat Brock at ER12 lol.


You can join me in having a meltdown if that happens then.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Fab Four said:


> You can join me in having a meltdown if that happens then.


I won't have a meltdown but I'll do what I did last time...fall to my knees and scream WHAT THE FUCK WHY YOU RUINED HIM YOU FUCKING RUINED HIM ALREADY YOU BASTARDS and then the next day I'll probably get over it and watch Raw, come online and complain until I feel better. 8*D


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

When you get down to the bare bones of things, I really don't think there are guys who can only be mid-carders. Comedy acts with no serious bone in their bodies and people with the personality of sand are exceptions to this rule. Otherwise, it's mostly down to booking to make us perceive how we view certain guys... at least for casuals anyway. However that's not always the case, and sometimes talent and/ or charisma are just too overwhelming to ignore forever. Bryan falls into that category. His booking sucked until they actually started acknowledging it with the weak link storyline.

I'll stand behind that if you give guys like Sandow, Ziggler, Cesaro, etc the booking of Reigns, Cena, Sheamus in 2012, that they'd look like main eventers as much as anybody (obviously not exactly the same booking, but you get the idea).


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Has anyone seen the HILARIOUS WM21 parodies? My favorite has to be Booker and Eddie's imitation of Pulp Fiction. Gold twenty or so clips.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Disagree. If everybody is considered good enough then nobody can ever truly be great. That's a way too naive and rose tinted way of looking at things imo. Guys like Ziggler and Sandow simply aren't good enough. Hell even Seamus now that there's only 1 title. It may not be fair but that's the way it is. Not everybody gets a shot at the top because not everybody is capable of making it. 90% of these guys have a ceiling. There's no amount of booking in the world that will turn Dolph Ziggler into a legitimate main event drawing act. Not a chance. Same for Sandow, same for Seamus etc. Say what you want about Reigns but he has something about him. It's whether or not they can turn it into $$$ but at least it's there and is obvious. Roman is in with a shot. The other very obviously aren't which is why they are where they are. 

I'm thinking after NOC when Brock demolishes Cena again (PLZ) that there might be a shot of Brock/Orton? I can see Orton breaking away from the Authority pretty soon and the story writes itself from that point. Orton gets his long awaited rematch against...DA BEAST. I'd like it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> I'm thinking after NOC when Brock demolishes Cena again (PLZ) that there might be a shot of Brock/Orton? I can see Orton breaking away from the Authority pretty soon and the story writes itself from that point. Orton gets his long awaited rematch against...DA BEAST. I'd like it.


:agree: Yeah, id also like Orton/Brock at some point. Wasn't there a report some time ago that said Orton wouldn't want the match because of his history of injuries or something though?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'd compare Ziggler's situation a lot to Christian's from 2009 and on.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Fab Four said:


> :agree: Yeah, id also like Orton/Brock at some point. Wasn't there a report some time ago that said Orton wouldn't want the match because of his history of injuries or something though?


Brock is physical but I doubt many people are as stupid as Cena to agree to go in there and basically get mauled alive for the viewing pleasure of thousands of people who hate your guts lol. Brock doesn't have to 'murder' Orton the way he did Cena. In fact I can see the NOC match being much more even this time with Brock still winning. Babyface Orton setting up for an RKO on Lesnar would be a pretty :mark: moment imo. While I enjoy Brock being a dominant beast I still want to see him have some competitive matches. The Show match this year was a non event, Taker match was a borderline dud and Cena, while unique, isn't something that can happen in all his future matches. He can get strong booking without completely squashing everybody who faces him otherwise things will get boring very fast. 

Brock/Cena @ NOC
Brock/Orton @ S. Series
Brock/??? @ Rumble
Brock retains @ EC
Brock/Reigns or Bryan or whoever at Mania

Easily done.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brock to put the 'Brock Lock' on Cena please. :mark: I would like him to bust out a few of his old moves though, i know he is playing a different character now, more pound and ground, but a bit more variety would be nice in more competitive matches.

Love the Cena match though of course, he told the story perfectly and didn't need to do all that in that instance.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Ziggler is so much better than Sandow in the ring. That shouldn't even be up for discussion.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Only watched this for the first time this year, but its now one of my fave ever matches, fucking LOVE IT:

*KENTA vs Low Ki - GHC Jr. Heavyweight Championship - ROH Final Battle 2005*






* Official video from ROH Channel.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The match of a thousand slaps and kicks 

Wish WWE hadn't been morons and fired Low Ki btw. He was supposed to turn heel and face Rey at WM


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> Disagree. If everybody is considered good enough then nobody can ever truly be great. That's a way too naive and rose tinted way of looking at things imo. Guys like Ziggler and Sandow simply aren't good enough. Hell even Seamus now that there's only 1 title. It may not be fair but that's the way it is. Not everybody gets a shot at the top because not everybody is capable of making it. 90% of these guys have a ceiling. There's no amount of booking in the world that will turn Dolph Ziggler into a legitimate main event drawing act. Not a chance. Same for Sandow, same for Seamus etc. Say what you want about Reigns but he has something about him. It's whether or not they can turn it into $$$ but at least it's there and is obvious. Roman is in with a shot. The other very obviously aren't which is why they are where they are.
> 
> I'm thinking after NOC when Brock demolishes Cena again (PLZ) that there might be a shot of Brock/Orton? I can see Orton breaking away from the Authority pretty soon and the story writes itself from that point. Orton gets his long awaited rematch against...DA BEAST. I'd like it.


I definitely disagree that no amount of booking would turn Ziggler into a legitimate main event player (or Sandow). That's absurd. Let me clarify, I know not every single person can be at that main event level because of the amount of talent that deserves to be there. All I'm saying is if they were afforded the opportunity, Id be willing to bet they'd succeed and find a permanent place, or at least be in a spot like Kane where they can go in and out of it.

Edit: @Saint Dick, you won't see me saying otherwise to that.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Have to agree with Sandow being like Ziggler (only 10 times more charismatic and better on the mic) in that neither are main event material. Both guys scream "midcard 4 life". They just don't _look_ like main eventers which I consider a big deal. They are not talented enough to get by on that like Bryan and they don't have the presence of someone like Batista to look like main event material.



Starbuck said:


> I'm thinking after NOC when Brock demolishes Cena again (PLZ) that there might be a shot of Brock/Orton? I can see Orton breaking away from the Authority pretty soon and the story writes itself from that point. Orton gets his long awaited rematch against...DA BEAST. I'd like it.


Hope to God this happens. I've already said it enough times so I'm sounding like a broken record at this point. 

But somebody brought it up in another thread and made me think Survivor Series is perfect for Brock vs Orton. It takes place in Orton's hometown (St. Louis) which will create for quite an atmosphere as his hometown always reacts to him well. Not to mention this is the match they need to make SVS look like a big deal for the first time since 2011 because the only thing the last two years did was damage the PPV's legacy and credibility.

But unfortunately, I can see them try to have Brock vs Batista instead with Batista's recent success in the movie scene. But then again, they could book that for Royal Rumble since on paper, it's bigger than Orton vs Brock. Then Brock may skip EC or defend it inside the EC itself and then take on Reigns (yuck) or better yet, Bryan at WM.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

On the discussion of main eventers and such, I don't think it's a problem to have guys like that and there's really nothing wrong with being a fan of those guys and hoping they move up the card as a fan. I've been a Billy Gunn mark for life (lol rit i know) but I completely understood his place. Except when I was 9.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I can't disagree with Sandow not having "the look"... he doesn't. I guess to me that doesn't play as much of a factor. If it does for you, I completely understand the stance of him not being main event material, rather than just "he isn't good enough", which makes it sound like there's an issue with him talent wise (which I know people do say, but that I don't agree with at all).

I have no interest in Brock/Orton. I'd much rather see Bork and Bootista duke it out. I suppose if they ever did Brock/Orton, I agree SVS would be the place to so it if it's in Orton's hometown.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hey C2D, can you link me to your Orton Top 100 Matches list? A massive Orton pack just came up on XWT (100 gigs for Christ sake) and I think it may be every televised match he's ever had.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Hey C2D, can you link me to your Orton Top 100 Matches list? A massive Orton pack just came up on XWT (100 gigs for Christ sake) and I think it may be every televised match he's ever had.


100 GB? Holy shit. Either it's just his iron man match with Cena in 500000p quality or it's gotta be every match and also the RANDY NEWS NOW segments.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

100 GB of Randy Orton stuff? Jesus fucking Christ, that must include repeats of the repeats of his matches on TV. And part of it (particularly the 2010 stuff) should be (INB4 ORTON MARKS RED REPPING ME) the cure for insomnia.

rton2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Hey C2D, can you link me to your Orton Top 100 Matches list? A massive Orton pack just came up on XWT (100 gigs for Christ sake) and I think it may be every televised match he's ever had.


Here's the whole thing, last updated in May of this year.



Spoiler: list



100. Randy Orton vs Hulk Hogan – SummerSlam 2006
99. Randy Orton vs Batista – Armageddon 2008
98. Randy Orton vs John Cena (TLC) – TLC 2013
97. Randy Orton vs CM Punk (Last Man Standing) – Extreme Rules 2011
96. Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett (No Disqualification) – Smackdown, 3 February 2012
95. Randy Orton vs Kane – Wrestlemania XXVIII
94. Randy Orton vs Christian vs Rob Van Dam – Smackdown, 27 July 2013
93. Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Big Show vs Triple H – Raw, 15 June 2009
92. Randy Orton vs Shane McMahon (No Holds Barred) – No Way Out 2009
91. Randy Orton, JBL & Finlay vs Rey Mysterio, Chris Benoit & Bobby Lashley – Smackdown, 24 February 2006
90. Randy Orton vs Alberto Del Rio – Hell in a Cell 2012
89. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus vs CM Punk vs Christian vs Rob Van Dam (Ladder Match) – Money in the Bank 2013
88. Randy Orton vs Dolph Ziggler – Raw, 29 August 2011
87. Evolution vs Shelton Benjamin, Edge & Tajiri – Raw, 3 May 2004
86. Legacy & CM Punk vs DX, John Cena & Undertaker – Smackdown, 2 October 2009
85. Randy Orton vs Christian – Capitol Punishment 2011
84. Randy Orton vs CM Punk – Raw, 18 April 2011
83. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Cyber Sunday 2007
82. Randy Orton vs Sheamus vs Chris Jericho vs Alberto del Rio – Over the Limit 2012
81. Randy Orton & Batista vs Chris Benoit & Edge – Raw, 17 May 2004
80. Randy Orton vs Jack Swagger vs Chris Jericho vs Mark Henry vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane (Elimination Chamber) – Elimination Chamber 2013
79. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho – Armageddon 2007
78. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle – Smackdown, 14 April 2006
77. Rated RKO vs Batista & Undertaker – Smackdown, 16 February 2007
76. Randy Orton vs Christian – Money in the Bank 2011
75. Randy Orton vs Mark Henry – Hell in a Cell 2011
74. Randy Orton vs Sheamus – Smackdown, 18 May 2012
73. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan – Night of Champions 2013
72. Evolution vs Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho & Edge – Raw, 2 August 2004
71. Legacy vs Triple H, Shane McMahon & Batista – Backlash 2009
70. Randy Orton vs Jeff Hardy – Royal Rumble 2008
69. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle – Vengeance 2006
68. Randy Orton vs CM Punk – Wrestlemania XXVII
67. Randy Orton vs Christian – Raw, 14 February 2005
66. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Unforgiven 2003
65. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho – Raw, 5 July 2004
64. Evolution vs Rock n’ Sock Connection – Wrestlemania XX
63. Team Orton vs Team Triple H – Survivor Series 2004
62. Randy Orton vs Triple H – Royal Rumble 2005
61. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio – Smackdown, 11 November 2005
60. Randy Orton vs Cody Rhodes (Street Fight) – Smackdown, 4 November 2011
59. Randy Orton vs Antonio Cesaro – Main Event, 8 May 2013
58. Randy Orton vs Triple H vs JBL vs John Cena – Backlash 2008
57. Randy Orton vs John Cena – Raw, 10 February 2014
56. Randy Orton vs Kane (Falls Count Anywhere) – Extreme Rules 2012
55. Randy Orton vs Shelton Benjamin – Bad Blood 2004
54. Randy Orton vs Goldust – Raw, 9 September 2013
53. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan – Smackdown, 21 June 2013
52. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – Smackdown, 18 August 2005
51. Randy Orton vs Ric Flair – Taboo Tuesday 2004
50. Randy Orton vs Edge – Raw, 19 July 2004
49. Randy Orton & Team Hell No vs The Shield – Smackdown, 14 June 2013
48. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho vs Edge – Raw, 19 July 2010
47. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan (Street Fight) – Raw, 24 June 2013
46. Randy Orton vs John Cena (Ironman) – Bragging Rights 2009
45. Randy Orton vs Rob Van Dam – Armageddon 2003
44. Randy Orton vs Christian (Steel Cage) – Smackdown, 30 August 2011
43. Randy Orton vs John Cena – SummerSlam 2007
42. Randy Orton vs Mark Henry – Night of Champions 2011
41. Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Triple H – Wrestlemania XXIV
40. Randy Orton vs Sheamus – Hell in a Cell 2010
39. Randy Orton vs Rob Van Dam – Raw, 12 January 2004
38. Randy Orton & Team Hell No vs The Shield – Raw, 3 June 2013
37. Randy Orton vs Triple H (Last Man Standing) – Raw, 22 June 2009
36. Randy Orton vs John Cena (I Quit) – Breaking Point 2009
35. Randy Orton vs Edge – Raw, 13 December 2004
34. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – Smackdown, 30 December 2005
33. Randy Orton vs Antonio Cesaro – Smackdown, 14 February 2014
32. Randy Orton vs Edge – Vengeance 2004
31. Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Daniel Bryan vs Cesaro vs Sheamus vs Christian – Elimination Chamber 2014
30. Randy Orton vs Undertaker – Smackdown, 16 September 2005
29. Randy Orton vs Christian – Smackdown, 6 May 2011
28. Rated RKO vs DX – New Year’s Revolution 2007
27. Randy Orton vs Edge – Raw, 30 April 2007
26. Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Edge vs Shawn Michaels – Backlash 2007
25. Evolution (Orton, Flair & Batista) vs Chris Benoit, Edge & Chris Jericho – Raw, 14 June 2004
24. Evolution vs Chris Benoit, Mick Foley, Shawn Michaels & Shelton Benjamin – Raw, 12 April 2004
23. Team Smackdown vs Team Raw – Survivor Series 2005
22. Randy Orton & "Cowboy" Bob Orton Jr. vs Undertaker (Handicap Casket) – No Mercy 2005
21. Team Bischoff vs Team Austin – Survivor Series 2003
20. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio – No Way Out 2006
19. Evolution vs The Shield – Extreme Rules 2014
18. Randy Orton vs Undertaker – Wrestlemania 21
17. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan – Raw, 16 December 2013
16. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – Raw, 16 August 2004
15. Randy Orton vs Undertaker – SummerSlam 2005
14. Randy Orton vs John Cena – No Way Out 2008
13. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan – Raw, 3 February 2014
12. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Survivor Series 2007
11. Randy Orton vs Christian (No Holds Barred) – SummerSlam 2011
10. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan vs Batista – Wrestlemania XXX
9. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit (No Holds Barred) – Smackdown, 27 January 2006
8. Randy Orton vs Christian - Over the Limit 2011
7. Randy Orton vs Triple H vs Batista vs Chris Benoit vs Edge vs Chris Jericho (Elimination Chamber) – New Year’s Revolution 2005
6. Randy Orton vs Triple H (Last Man Standing) – No Mercy 2007
5. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio - Smackdown, 7 April 2006
4. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – Smackdown, 13 January 2006
3. Randy Orton vs Undertaker (Hell in a Cell) - Armageddon 2005
2. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit - SummerSlam 2004
1. Randy Orton vs Cactus Jack (Hardcore Match) - Backlash 2004



Enjoy cause he's got loads of TV gems. 

:lmao @ 100 gb.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

100 gigs of RANDAL :lmao

I would like to re-watch a lot of his 2003-2006 work though


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If it's not 100 GB of this:










then I'm dissapointed.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

100 gee bee's of RKO? :mark: 

Orton vs. Brock in St. Louis would actually be pretty frickin sweet on the HEELS of an Orton tweener/face/break from the Authority turn 8*D.

Santa, saying Sandow isn't good enough doesn't mean he isn't talented. He is talented, as is Ziggler. It's just that neither of them are talented enough to be main event players. They look out of place next to legit stars and they're never going to be taken seriously at that level. And there really isn't anything wrong with that. Of course you want your guys to do well but like Brye said, there's nothing wrong with acknowledging limitations and being realistic about things.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Highlight of Orton's career in one .gif


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> 100 gee bee's of RKO? :mark:
> 
> Orton vs. Brock in St. Louis would actually be pretty frickin sweet on the HEELS of an Orton tweener/face/break from the Authority turn 8*D.
> 
> Santa, saying Sandow isn't good enough doesn't mean he isn't talented. He is talented, as is Ziggler. It's just that neither of them are talented enough to be main event players. They look out of place next to legit stars and they're never going to be taken seriously at that level. And there really isn't anything wrong with that. Of course you want your guys to do well but like Brye said, there's nothing wrong with acknowledging limitations and being realistic about things.


I think that's where I disagree. They are talented enough to hang in the main event... well at least Sandow is. It's other factors that keep him out and a guy like Reigns in, or guys like Sheamus and Del Rio in for awhile. At least to me anyway. But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

For the record it's not like every guy I like I think should be in the main event above most or all others. I like Cesaro a lot but I question if I'd want to see him in the main event. I like Heath Slater but no way he should be in the main event. Same for Titus, Kofi (fuck the haters), Big E... I just don't think they deserve to be in the main event over many others. Sandow's a different story, but I think I've made that clear.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Wish WWE hadn't been morons and fired Low Ki btw. He was supposed to turn heel and face Rey at WM


Ki left, iirc.



Rah said:


> Cena is good in timing his kickouts to build suspense when it matters. Sandow is nowhere close to Cena's level and his finishers aren't either. Sandow was booked to lose and was not going to be kept going as a main eventer. That is why Cena presented his kickouts at the two second mark.
> 
> He may not be able to keep Cena down to almost winning, but keeping the biggest star in the company down for two, despite largely being Mr Irrelevant was good enough (let us also disregard the flawed "but post PPV selling" copout). Not bad for a guy who was made to look like a chump by Cody, flailing in the bay and half drowning in saving his briefcase.
> 
> ...


Never any point for me to write anything ever again. YAY. And is it really really funny or really really sad that I knew my comment "Nobody cares about Sandow, John-boy made that match." would lead to this kind of a pointless discussion?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

If I remember right (and I probably don't), Ki asked for his release because he thought he wasn't going anywhere in the company. This was while he was in the running to win the IC championship from Ziggler.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Then he was randomly squashed by McIntyre one night in about 30 seconds and that was it. Ki burned another bridge. None of us are shocked.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well then DAMMIT KI. Just DAMN-FUCKING-IT.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Where is that danielson/regal match :hmm:


Btw, I know this isnt the correct thread, but most talk about other wrestling all the time, could I get a few recs for some lucha stuff ? In the mood, something to start off with.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Skins I'm not the aficionado like some others, but hell take a recent classic from my end:






Remember, it's Lucha. So don't let shitty refs & their wtf shenanigans be a wet blanket for the quality. It happens far too often. _(the bad refs, not the outlook of using it as a complaint)_


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Eva Marie said:


> Where is that danielson/regal match :hmm:
> 
> 
> Btw, I know this isnt the correct thread, must most talk about other wrestling all the time, could I get a few recs for some lucha stuff ? In the mood, something to start off with.


x246xti


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

thank you and thank you


La Park = La Parka from WCW ?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sangre Chicana vs. MS-1 is required viewing for those getting into lucha. WOOLCOCK would attest to that.

LA PARK = La Parka. There are other impostors out there to watch out for. Except I kinda liked La Parkita.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Indeed. Legal issues forced the change, etc.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

AAA headman Antonio Pena created the la Parka character in 92, didn't mind it being used in WCW because WCW wasn't a direct competitor, but because of the fans la Park started getting, he made a new la Parka using some other guy he could have in AAA again. Then (the real) la Parka went to CMLL (which is THE competitor to AAA), so Pena took legal action and (the real) la Parka had to change his name and used LA Park (LA standing for ''la authentic'', well not ''authentic'', but whatever the Spanish word for authentic/original is). Then LA Park came back to AAA in 2010 and they built a feud off of it.

That's the story, anyway. What I believe is that la Parka is so good at life that he can literally duplicate himself.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

The Fab Four said:


> Brock to put the 'Brock Lock' on Cena please. :mark: I would like him to bust out a few of his old moves though, i know he is playing a different character now, more pound and ground, but a bit more variety would be nice in more competitive matches.
> 
> Love the Cena match though of course, he told the story perfectly and didn't need to do all that in that instance.


I think with Brock caving in cena's face at ER and targeting his neck at SS, the two could work a Knightfall esque story of Lesnar trying to break Cena's back. brock could delve into that retro set to accomplish this. Double Powerbomb, Brock Lock, bearhug to spinebuster, triple backbreaker, overhead belly to back. 

I hope this SS german onslaught is savored as a one time special deal so that brock's incredible offense doesnt lose luster and become formulaic. I am trepedatious this suplex schtick will become all of brock's matches even though he can tell other stories and play his dominating role using a wide arsenal.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Just got around to watching Ambrose/Rollins Fall Count Anywhere. I haven't been keeping up with this shit at all, but the match had me on the edge of my seat. Ambrose is so fucking awesome. Oh my God. *****1/4* What an awesome TV match. No idea why they booked a Lumberjack match on the PPV and then had this for free. That sitout powerbomb onto the pile of chairs was *sick*.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Has anyone noticed WWE's designs and their advertising has gotten way better recently? They just put up a design for Lesnar/Cena at NOC and it was cool as shit. haha



Eva Marie said:


> Where is that danielson/regal match :hmm:
> 
> 
> Btw, I know this isnt the correct thread, but most talk about other wrestling all the time, could I get a few recs for some lucha stuff ? In the mood, something to start off with.


Why not start with what's arguably the best match in Lucha history? The best one I've ever seen at least. March 17, 2000 is the date. Mask vs. Mask.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

There's La Parka, and then there's people inferior to La Parka. And then there's Bobby Eaton.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I'm only bringing this up here since we all talked about Rusev's selling after Summerslam.

I turned on Smackdown for a few minutes, saw Rusev vs. Sin Cara... and Rusev was still selling. Man, how can you not like Rusev.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Tonight got nothin goin so watching SD and caught this Randal beatdown and damn even w/o his punt Randy can give a worldclass beatdown with that callousness and taunting. Orton w/ direction is usually gold. As I type this, apparently reigns and Brose are finally confirmed as beingaffiliated? Well that sure creates some previous potholes w/ the lack of rescuing post Shield. Hmmm...


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I would hate if they don't do Ambrose vs. Rollins in the Cell and go with Reigns/Ambrose vs. Orton/Rollins instead. Save the tag match for Survivor Series.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That tag match sounds like something tailor made for decades ago.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'd love to see that tag match at Night of Champions. (Y)

I'm in the process of downloading 11 gigs of Randy Orton TV matches. I'm too excited for this. haha

Two REALLY good matches on Smackdown this week. Rollins vs. Swagger was pretty great and really just a tease of what they can do against each other. Rowan & Harper vs. Goldust & Stardust was just as good it looks on paper (I think they've faced each other months ago too). This should really be a tag title feud right now.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Skins, I'm no Lucha buff myself, but one match WOOLCOCK (or maybe it was you, Yeah?) sent me that I REALLY liked was Atlantis vs Villano III. So, so good.

Edit- I totally did not know Low Ki was in WWE...what name did he use??

Edit 2- Ugh I couldn't see the video Jack Evans embedded, just realized he pimped the same match I did. Well here is a cosign then Skins, watch that shit it's absolutely incredible.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Skins, I'm no Lucha buff myself, but one match WOOLCOCK (or maybe it was you, Yeah?) sent me that I REALLY liked was Atlantis vs Villano III. So, so good.
> 
> Edit- I totally did not know Low Ki was in WWE...what name did he use??


That was the same match I linked from Youtube.  But wait, you just mentioned that now. Double 

He went by Kaval. His most notable match was an Intercontinental Title bout against Ziggler at Survivor Series 2010. Good stuff.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watch Kaval vs Jack Swagger & Drew McIntyre from Superstars. Great stuff. Better than the good match vs Ziggler, mentioned.

Pretty sure Kaval vs Chavo is good stuff too.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> That was the same match I linked from Youtube.  But wait, you just mentioned that now. Double
> 
> He went by Kaval. His most notable match was an Intercontinental Title bout against Ziggler at Survivor Series 2010. Good stuff.


Yea I'll get to that match soon, starting off with this La parka one which so far is :krillin


Swagger/Rollins had a good showing ? :hmm:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Watch Kaval vs Jack Swagger & Drew McIntyre from Superstars. Great stuff. Better than the good match vs Ziggler, mentioned.
> 
> Pretty sure Kaval vs Chavo is good stuff too.


Thank you sir, much appreciated.


Eva Marie said:


> Yea I'll get to that match soon, starting off with this La parka one which so far is :krillin
> 
> 
> Swagger/Rollins had a good showing ? :hmm:


Swagger/Rollins sounds like an excellent pairing, I'd like to see that match.

I just watched Punk/Joe III, I have to say for all the hype their 2nd match gets, and rightly so as it's sublime, I think the 3rd is actually the best of the bunch. I'm SO thrilled I got to watch this entire series for the first time without knowing who ended up with the belt in the end, it made the last 5 or so minutes of he final match as epic and edge of your seat awesome as anything else I've seen.

Also, I always forget just how EPIC Punk's ROH entrance was with that AFI Miseria Contrare jam. It's just such a perfect entrance song...if Punk ever comes back, and make a surprise entrance, I would damn near have an orgasm if WWE paid for the rights to use that song, even if it's just for one night. As much as I dig his Killswitch and Living Colour entrance themes, nothing will ever top the AFI one, it fit him perfectly. Imagine Brock in the ring leading up to the Royal Rumble with Heyman talking about how they have no one left to conquer, when all of the sudden...the first drum kicks of Miseria Contrare hit, 75% of the audience sits in silence because they have no idea what's going on, the other 25% start losing their collective shit, and finally as the song crescendos Punk steps out and the place erupts. 

One can always dream, I suppose.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I can accept it never happening b/c the exact same scenario happened w/Punk & Cult of Personality. A track which I felt fit him better in the long run. W/o denying how great of an entrance he had w/AFI.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

"Cult of Personality" is the one Punk related thing that my love for was, is and will always be constant. An absolute classic.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> I'm in the process of downloading 11 gigs of Randy Orton TV matches. I'm too excited for this. haha


I got 15 gbs.

What exactly have you selected to D/L? Old stuff? Recent stuff?

I've taken a bit from every year (except 05 and 06 TV stuff, already have all of the Raw & SDs) because I've been thinking about going ol' school and putting together a video in Sony Vegas.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It still amazes me how I like Orton's Summerslam matches more than C2D.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Which ones (Reigns match aside) and based on what?

I doubt you like the Benoit and Taker matches more than me. Maybe the Taker match but that's because as much as I love it, I am rarely vocal about how awesome it truly is. Outside of this thread, the Taker/Orton matches are so damn underrated. Sometimes Wrestlemania gets its due but the rest always go overlooked and it's a damn shame. Come to think of it, all of Orton's great matches outside of the Foley match and the Christian series always get overlooked when we got idiots in this forum talking about how he's "good at best" and has never had classic matches.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I got 15 gbs.
> 
> What exactly have you selected to D/L? Old stuff? Recent stuff?
> 
> I've taken a bit from every year (except 05 and 06 TV stuff, already have all of the Raw & SDs) because I've been thinking about going ol' school and putting together a video in Sony Vegas.


I got a little bit of everything from '03 to the December 2013 RAW match against Bryan. There were some old IC Title matches from '03/'04 that I'd never seen before and a slew of Evolution tag matches too. The bulk of it was from 2003/4 with a little bit of '06 and 2011/12 sprinkled in. Already have most of the stuff from 2007 & 2009 and wanted almost nothing from 2010. haha. Notable matches I can remember are a 2 out of 3 falls match against Del Rio, IC Title match against Booker T, and I'm pretty sure there was a World Title match from '04 that I didn't know existed. Shit's goin too slow though.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Benoit/Orton at Summerslam is my #3 MOTY behind both Benoit/HHH/HBK triple threats. Orton/Taker is either #3 or #4 in my 2005 MOTY depending on how I feel about Money in the Bank. You definitely prefer 2006 and 2007. I find 2009 Cena match to be top tier comedy, which means I like it more than most folks. I don't know how you feel about the Sheamus Summerslam match, but I liked that a lot too. Orton/Christian is GOAT. And Of course I prefer the Reigns match.

Orton is just really weird. Either you have insane chemistry with him or you're HHH/Batista/Cena/someone else I don't remember. When he has chemistry with someone, it's the scariest thing ever. Nobody can stop that. When he doesn't, it's also the scariest thing ever because it leads to The Bash 2009. The only guy who I can think of that was in a middle ground with Orton was Punk. Maybe Swagger, although I like their 2010 and 2013 stuff. Except I think they had a really bad RAW match that went on for like 20 minutes. Did Orton ever face Khali?



Onto better things. Punk/Joe III is GOAT. Cjack, go watch Punk's work with Jimmy Rave next. The shoelace match specifically. But the cage match and the dog collar match rule too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Orton's match vs Khali in 2011 is better than 99% of the rest of his year. Only thing it doesn't beat is Punk at WM & stuff vs Henry. Again, b/c it was all on them. But this jobber topic again. Same ol song & dance, etc. About as interesting as he is today.

I cosign the Punk vs Jimmy Rave feud. Jimmy Rave was legit. A favorite of mine during ROH's glory days.

I feel like this thread can always use a bit more Dick Murdoch. If only I had a link to that six minute squash where he just wrecks the nightly jobber.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Probably a dumb question, have you seen their other matches? The last of the trilogy is even better when you've the first 2. And they're all better when you know how Joe has been booked leading into the match. It's great when you realize that he's a monster and yet he puts his feet on the ropes to try to win. 

Also have you seen the shoot they did together? They spent about an hour talking about their trilogy of matches. Really cool to listen to as you usually never get that much insight into 3 matches.


Clash of the Champions XV

*The Fabulous Freebirds and Bad Street vs. The Young Pistols and Z-Man*

Is this match on some WWE DVD release? I feel like I’ve seen this before. OK I’ve certainly seen it before. It’s really a fun little match. I think it goes about 6 minutes and the pace is kept perfectly. I was really happy to see that the Free Birds wrestled to the pace of their opponents. They tried to cheat and slow things down but it just never happened. Their heel tactics were there as the Pistols and Z-Man took some nice bumps before things broke down completely and the Freebirds lost. Fun match.
****


*Oz w/The Great Wizard vs. Johnny Rich*

I just can’t believe how terrible of gimmick Nash has. Seriously, they sign a giant that looks like he could kill anyone and they give him this gimmick? Nash squashes Rich to the surprise of nobody. Rich nearly killed himself landing from a clothesline and Nash hits a cool spinning power bomb for the win. At least Nash does some cool moves and keeps his squashes short. I can’t complain too much.
*¼** 


*Dan Spivey vs. Big Josh
*
They actually had a pretty decent big man brawl for about 2 minutes before Kevin Sullivan came in and got involved which led to a quick ending. I was expecting it to be terrible and it was actually an OK 2 or 3 minute match so I can’t really complain.
*½** 


*Dustin Rhodes vs. Terrance Taylor w/Alexandra York and Mr. Hughes* 

They were on their way to a decent match but instead of continuing past 5 minutes or so Ricky Morton made a run in and joined the York Foundation. Very inoffensive but also highly forgettable. 
*¾* *


*Sting vs. Nikita Koloff*

I know that the whole point of this match was just to build up the Chain Match that they would have at the Great American Bash but I still thought this was a really good match. It’s the perfect way to make a heel look tough as well. Sting comes to the ring and attacks Koloff like a madman and Koloff doesn’t just fend him off, he takes the fight to Sting and comes out on top. Sting gets offense in but it doesn’t work because Koloff is such a monster. Koloff controls most of the match and while his offense isn’t anything too amazing it’s solid enough and it keeps you interested while waiting for the big Sting comeback. That comeback never really comes though as it’s all Koloff with some signs of life from Sting. Sting gets the win but he looks lucky to have survived the match. As a standalone match it’s good but as feud builder it’s perfect. I know I really want to see the next match between these two so the match did its job.
****1/4* 


_Loser Leaves WCW_
*Barry Windham and Arn Anderson vs. El Gigante and Brian Pillman* 

On the plus side Pillman wrestled the entire match. On the negative it only lasted about 4 minutes. Pillman and any combination of the Horsemen were having good matches at the time but I was always left wanting more and in this case this was the feud ender and I was still left wanting more. Pillman and Windham would have been able to tear the house down in a 15-20 minute match but their encounters were always so short. Anyway, this really is a great underdog performance from Pillman. You can’t really ask for anything more from someone in such a short amount of time. His offense was explosive and you were just pulling for him. I’ll add this to my list of good short matches. 
***1/4* 


_IWGP Tag Team Championship Match_
*The Steiner Brothers(c) vs. Hiroshi Hase and Masahiro Chono*

Really good stuff. It has more of a Japanese feel to it but this isn’t the exact type of match that they would have in Japan. The pacing was great and they did throw a lot of bombs at each other. There was a nice control segment but Chono on Hase where they find the perfect mix of working smartly and beating the shit out of the Steiners. Also at one point Rick Steiner was kicked hard enough that his wrestling headgear broke which was pretty awesome. I also like how you had the feeling that the match was about to go crazy at any time. I remember worrying that Nick Patrick would end the match via a DQ or something but that thankfully didn’t happen. Really fun match and the Steiner have been killing it around this time period.
****1/4 *


*The Diamond Studd w/Diamond Dallas Page vs. Tommy Rich*

It’s kind of sad watching Tommy Rich from around this time. He’s older and every time he wrestles you hear how he’s a former world champion. He loses every time but doesn’t get totally squashed as he did put up a fight but ultimately fell short. Decent enough squash match I guess. 
*½* *


*The Great Muta vs. Lex Luger*

They had a match, Muta took a pretty crazy bump and then Luger won with a powerslam. The bump Muta took was pretty cool. 
**1/2* 


*Steve Austin w/Lady Blossom vs. Joey Mags*

I was typing in the match up and I missed the whole match while typing it. Austin hits a Stun Gun and wins in 15 seconds. 
*¼* *


_2-Out-3-Falls for the WCW Championship_
*Bobby Eaton vs. Ric Flair(c)*

Classic Flair stuff here. The match didn’t started out as your classic Ric Flair title defense as him and Eaton were pretty evenly matched for a while. I wasn’t in love with the first fall as it was back and forth and while that was OK they didn’t really do anything of note or make the match compelling. Thankfully the first fall didn’t last too long (the whole didn’t last for that long really) and Eaton hit a neck breaker and followed up with his top rope leg drop that he was using as a finisher. Once the first fall was made this went from OK to great. Eaton pins the champion clean in the middle of the ring and Flair is hurt. Now you have your classic Flair defense where you don’t know how he could possibly escape with the title. 

You get a few biggish moves from Eaton where he gets some nearfalls and you can see that Flair has just no chance at all. What won Eaton the first fall ends up being his downfall as he goes for the leg drop too many times and Flair is able to send him from the top rope to the floor for a countout win. Eaton also injures his leg in the fall. 

Now it’s anyone’s match as Flair is still beat up but Eaton has a bad injury. Flair goes after the leg and goes in for the kill. Great selling from Eaton as I don’t think he ever did anything where he wasn’t selling. There was a great nearfall on a roll up off the Figure Four but it wasn’t meant to be and with the use of the rope Flair wins with the Figure Four. 

I’m a pretty big fan of the match. I liked how you had the classic Flair as champion formula but it was done differently. It was evenly matched early on but they very quickly made you realize that Flair was fucked. I just wish they had made the first fall more compelling or this would be getting an even higher rating. 
****3/4*​

I would classify this is one of the better COTC that I’ve come across on the Network. 3 matches that were worth seeing. I can only imagine how much better the show would have been if the Loser Leaves WCW had got all the time that the squash matches got.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Benoit/Orton at Summerslam is my #3 MOTY behind both Benoit/HHH/HBK triple threats. Orton/Taker is either #3 or #4 in my 2005 MOTY depending on how I feel about Money in the Bank. You definitely prefer 2006 and 2007. I find 2009 Cena match to be top tier comedy, which means I like it more than most folks. I don't know how you feel about the Sheamus Summerslam match, but I liked that a lot too. Orton/Christian is GOAT. And Of course I prefer the Reigns match.
> 
> Orton is just really weird. Either you have insane chemistry with him or you're HHH/Batista/Cena/someone else I don't remember. When he has chemistry with someone, it's the scariest thing ever. Nobody can stop that. When he doesn't, it's also the scariest thing ever because it leads to The Bash 2009. The only guy who I can think of that was in a middle ground with Orton was Punk. Maybe Swagger, although I like their 2010 and 2013 stuff. Except I think they had a really bad RAW match that went on for like 20 minutes. Did Orton ever face Khali?
> 
> ...


MOTY for 2004 is Eddie/JBL JD, nothing else can touch that. Here is how my top 5 for WWE would be:

1. Eddie/JBL JD
2. Cactus Jack/Orton BL
3. Eddie/Lesnar NWO
4. Benoit/HBK/HHH WM
5. Eddie/Big Show SD

Match between Benoit/Orton on Raw following SS would probably be next, and that match >>> their SS match, which I like a great deal anyway.




Hayley Seydoux said:


> Orton's match vs Khali in 2011 is better than 99% of the rest of his year. Only thing it doesn't beat is Punk at WM & stuff vs Henry. Again, b/c it was all on them. But this jobber topic again. Same ol song & dance, etc. About as interesting as he is today.
> 
> I cosign the Punk vs Jimmy Rave feud. Jimmy Rave was legit. A favorite of mine during ROH's glory days.
> 
> I feel like this thread can always use a bit more Dick Murdoch. If only I had a link to that six minute squash where he just wrecks the nightly jobber.



Never heard of Jimmy Rave to be perfectly honest. What ever became of him?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I got a little bit of everything from '03 to the December 2013 RAW match against Bryan. There were some old IC Title matches from '03/'04 that I'd never seen before and a slew of Evolution tag matches too. The bulk of it was from 2003/4 with a little bit of '06 and 2011/12 sprinkled in. Already have most of the stuff from 2007 & 2009 and wanted almost nothing from 2010. haha. Notable matches I can remember are a 2 out of 3 falls match against Del Rio, IC Title match against Booker T, and I'm pretty sure there was a World Title match from '04 that I didn't know existed. Shit's goin too slow though.


Booker match is disappointing because it lasts about 5 minutes. Wish they had gotten to have a proper one on one at some point but it never happened. Oh well, there's the RVD triple threat at least.

You have the Network, right? In that case, ain't no use in downloading anything from 2012-present since they're all available on demand.

Also is that World Title match the cage match with Kane? If so, I don't recall that being for the title. Or you might be talking about the Benoit rematch on Raw which is absolute GOAT.

I agree that it's going way too slow. Should pick up in a day or two when more people have the pack D/Led enabling them to seed faster.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Benoit/Orton at Summerslam is my #3 MOTY behind both Benoit/HHH/HBK triple threats. Orton/Taker is either #3 or #4 in my 2005 MOTY depending on how I feel about Money in the Bank. You definitely prefer 2006 and 2007. I find 2009 Cena match to be top tier comedy, which means I like it more than most folks. I don't know how you feel about the Sheamus Summerslam match, but I liked that a lot too. Orton/Christian is GOAT. And Of course I prefer the Reigns match.
> 
> Orton is just really weird. Either you have insane chemistry with him or you're HHH/Batista/Cena/someone else I don't remember. When he has chemistry with someone, it's the scariest thing ever. Nobody can stop that. When he doesn't, it's also the scariest thing ever because it leads to The Bash 2009. The only guy who I can think of that was in a middle ground with Orton was Punk. Maybe Swagger, although I like their 2010 and 2013 stuff. Except I think they had a really bad RAW match that went on for like 20 minutes. Did Orton ever face Khali?


I guess looking at it that way, you prefer them. I still rank both very highly, it's just that there are other matches I consider equally good. Benoit/Orton would make my top 6 probably, below the triple threats, Eddie/JBL and Eddie/Brock. Or maybe I'd put it above Eddie/JBL, but they are all top tier phenomenal matches. Taker match is definitely top 10 but 05 is also stacked up there, specially with cage matches. I like the Sheamus match and give it 3 stars. Orton/Christian is in my top 3 for 2011 next to OTL and Punk/Cena from MITB.

Orton and Punk is definition of middle ground because all their matches range from average to good. Nothing great but nothing terrible either. Jericho vs Orton is also like that, they never had a great match but nothing was ever bad. But you have a point on his on-off chemistry with the likes of Cena and HHH. Either they have excellent matches (NWO 08, NM 07, SS 07) or they have some pretty bad ones (SS 09, Bash 09, WM25).

Orton and Khali had a 5 minute match which is way better than it had any right being.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Orton's match vs Khali in 2011 is better than 99% of the rest of his year. Only thing it doesn't beat is Punk at WM & stuff vs Henry. Again, b/c it was all on them. But this jobber topic again. Same ol song & dance, etc. About as interesting as he is today.
> 
> I cosign the Punk vs Jimmy Rave feud. Jimmy Rave was legit. A favorite of mine during ROH's glory days.
> 
> I feel like this thread can always use a bit more Dick Murdoch. If only I had a link to that six minute squash where he just wrecks the nightly jobber.


Jimmy Rave. There's a name I haven't heard in a while, but I really liked him around that time period. And I liked his team with LANCE HOYT in TNA although they didn't do all that much.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Dick Murdoch is John Cena's favorite wrestler. Not sure where to start the discussion. Maybe by recommending his match with Barry Windham. Not the WWE one in Philly. That one sucked. The awesome 7/11/87 one. Somehow this discussion will progress.

Every time I look up Jimmy Rave info, I'm still amazed that he just turned 32. Dude drew some crazy heat in ROH. Could have been world champ in ROH if he stayed longer IMO. Another gig of his was stealing finishers. I think lately he's been spending time with his family. Someone correct me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Never heard of Jimmy Rave to be perfectly honest. What ever became of him?


Career in a nutshell (its more than that 8*D:

Indie kid getting some ROH bookings. AJ Styles protege while there. Lost his roster spot & was MIA for a bit.

Returned in a heel stable called The Embassy and began to pick up some steam. Eventually started to rip off Styles' finisher & it began a feud & was the initial start to Rave's sustained career in ROH. Styles would have to leave b/c TNA pulled their talent due to the RF Videos scandal.

Rave got the CM Punk feud next to fill the void, only it became much more than that. They had a great series of matches including traditional, some tags, dog collar & it culminated in a steel cage match in Chicago. Rave was made following this.

Styles returned. That program continued. Rave's Embassy faction also started up a popular program vs the then heel group Generation Next. _(Austin Aries, Roderick Strong & Jack Evans. Subsequently joined by Matt Sydal)_ Which saw Gen Next turn babyface as it began & it was faction warfare for the remainder of 05. Styles would join Gen Next in various matches to get at Rave & b/c he took in Matt Sydal aka Evan Bourne as his new protege. Both would conclude in the same year - Styles vs Rave in the fall w/a finishers match as the winner would keep the Styles Clash or Rave Clash, respectively & faction warfare at the December event Steel Cage Warefare. So, it ended via a war games match. Btw Mick Foley played a hand in the end of the Styles vs Rave feud.

Rave would have minor programs in 06 but his goal was to win tag championship gold w/his partner Alex Shelley. It also began a one upsmanship game between the two. Trying to see which can defeat then ROH World Champion Bryan Danielson for that title. Shelley left full time for TNA & Rave was floating around waiting for a new partner. He got one in Sal Rinaruo. The New Embassy didn't find much success results wise. In fact a losing streak angle would be hitched towards Rave. The debuting Davey Richards being his biggest target for frustration. Late in the year Rave lost his entire Embassy buddies as they were just MIA from the company entirely. He was trying to find himself & his new identity & struggle to win in the process. Following a pretty great clean match vs Nigel McGuinness in a losing effort, the fans showed Jimmy plenty of respect & Nigel ended up playing a prank on Jimmy, to which sparked a BIG time grudge among the two for the rest of the year, leading into 07. Built on Respect as Rave felt Nigel didn't show him any, etc. Rave found his edge again & a new finisher; the heel hook. Would find a new found winning streak on his end & taking out Nigel's ankle on numerous occasions. Had an I Quit Match in early 07 & their program concluded in a must see, phenomenal Fight Without Honor in England at Fifth Year Festival: Finale.

That match was so brutal Jimmy Rave broke his jaw in it. He was gone for a few months and returned to ROH in 07. A lot of new faces were around so Jimbo was a bit lost in the shuffle. After not doing too much by way of a program, he eventually decided to jump ship to TNA. Got pt in a comedy heel team w/Lance Hoyt. They stuck around till being fired in 09. Rave was pretty MIA for a few years until he turned back up in Dragon Gate USA & eventually back in ROH last year as part of the SCUM faction. Unfortunately, the return didn't have any legs behind it. He suffered a seizure which kept him from working any matches and I do believe he is semi-retired atm.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Onto better things. Punk/Joe III is GOAT.


I've always been of the opinion it's > Punk/Joe II. I've heard of Rave but I've never watched him. I even have Bryan's title run from ROH downloaded and just never watched his match vs Rave.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Shit, didn't know Rave had a seizure.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He recovered & was fine following. Still was awful. Being in SCUM was a large reason why I was looking forward to that angle at the time.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

There was this stable going around somewhere called Jimmy Rave Approved. But I don't remember when or where or if Jimmy was even wrestling in it or just managing them. I'm a Rave fan, though. Drawing true heat in ROH wasn't the easiest thing to do but he and his stable were the biggest fucking assholes. Was kind of uncomfortable watching them treat that woman they had with them like shit (what was her name? Jade something?), but goddamn, it was a perfect heat cherry on a heat...........cake. I think the Punk/Rave cage could have been fucking awesome if it didn't kind of drag on with that elongated workover stuff. If they played it like DiBiase/Duggan it would have been so much better. The Rave/Styles street fight is fucking great, though. There's a spot near the end that I won't spoil that's worrying to watch.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Dick Murdoch is John Cena's favorite wrestler.


the fuck REALLY!??? :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Career in a nutshell (its more than that 8*D:
> 
> Indie kid getting some ROH bookings. AJ Styles protege while there. Lost his roster spot & was MIA for a bit.
> 
> ...




Wow, I didn't expect such a thorough and insightful career retrospective. Thanks a lot man that was really helpful and a great read all around. I'm moving Jimmy Rave, particularly his Punk and McGuinness matches to the top of my "To Watch" list. I have a feeling of déjà vu though, because about a month ago I needed something to watch and you and Flux sent me a bunch of recs from another guy I never heard of, also named Jimmy....Jimmy Jacobs. I ended up LOVING him and binge watching shit from Jacobs for like 4 days straight. Hopefully the same thing results from experiencing Jimmy Rave 

TaylorFitz- yeah dude, I ordered the Punk/Joe set from ROH so I watched all three matches in chronological order and followed that by watching that hilarious shoot interview. One of the best things I've ever done. It was especially cool because I had NO idea who won any of the matches. I'm serious, some how being a member of a wrestling forum I never heard anyone say that the first 2 matches were hour draws or that Joe ends up retaining the belt in the final bout. Crazy, but yea I'm thrilled that fluke happened. Also cool because once the first match was an hour draw, I thought there was no way in hell the second match would be another hour draw so all the false finishes really got me. Then the third matches happens and I think "well I guess they are just gonna go like 58 minutes with Punk winning at the very end". Nope, they go all out for like 25 minutes and Punk loses. Totally blew my mind. Awesome, awesome stuff.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Oh man, does everyone else know about this match:

*"Smackdown Championship" - 6-Way Elimination Match*
The Undertaker vs. JBL vs. Chris Benoit vs. Christian vs. Booker T vs. Muhammad Hassan (_Smackdown 6/30/2005_)

Totally sweet match. Christian comes over to be a surprise entrant to make it a 6-way after it was announced to be a 5-man match. We're SO close to getting a Taker/Benoit interaction until Takes destroys Hassan with a chair and gets himself disqualified. Hassan is escaping to the back so he's out too. Benoit vs. Booker produces a really good singles match until JBL tries to outsmart Benoit and ends up doing so to eliminate him. Booker gets beat down for a solid 15 minutes (no joke) and starts playing this underdog face in peril when we're not even in a tag match. A bunch of nearfalls and shit until Christian outsmarts Booker, but gets outsmarted and destroyed with a clothesline from hell and JBL is your winner! New Smackdown Champion! But no! Teddy Long comes out and announces after that 30 minute war that poor old JBL just won himself a #1 contender's spot against the World Champion and newest Smackdown draft pick... Batista! :lmao I thought that shit was hilarious. Great match, even better angle. **** 3/4 *for the whole thing.

Taker & JBL also have two Smackdown matches from '05 that I watched. One was a No DQ match in Taker's return to TV in June and the other was a #1 Contender's match from prior to Summerslam. Both are slugfests and good matches but end exactly the same with Orton RKOing Taker and the finishes are way overbooked. JBL kicks out of a chokeslam and a last ride in the first one and there's two weak ass ref bumps and tons of Orlando Jordan interference in the 2nd one. *** 1/4 for both.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> There was this stable going around somewhere called Jimmy Rave Approved. But I don't remember when or where or if Jimmy was even wrestling in it or just managing them. I'm a Rave fan, though. Drawing true heat in ROH wasn't the easiest thing to do but he and his stable were the biggest fucking assholes. Was kind of uncomfortable watching them treat that woman they had with them like shit (what was her name? Jade something?), but goddamn, it was a perfect heat cherry on a heat...........cake. I think the Punk/Rave cage could have been fucking awesome if it didn't kind of drag on with that elongated workover stuff. If they played it like DiBiase/Duggan it would have been so much better. The Rave/Styles street fight is fucking great, though. There's a spot near the end that I won't spoil that's worrying to watch.
> 
> 
> 
> the fuck REALLY!??? :mark:


Terry Funk says that when he met JBL for the first time all JBL wanted to talk about was Dick Murdoch. He bugged Funk and made him tell every Murdoch story he knew and acted like everything Dicky did was the greatest thing ever. So yea, some how when you are watching a JBL vs Cena match, you are watching 2 guys who idolize Dick Murdoch. Strange. I would have swore Stan Hansen was JBL's favorite wrestler, seeing as JBL at his best was like a homeless mans Stan Hansen.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> There was this stable going around somewhere called Jimmy Rave Approved. But I don't remember when or where or if Jimmy was even wrestling in it or just managing them. I'm a Rave fan, though. Drawing true heat in ROH wasn't the easiest thing to do but he and his stable were the biggest fucking assholes. Was kind of uncomfortable watching them treat that woman they had with them like shit (what was her name? Jade something?), but goddamn, it was a perfect heat cherry on a heat...........cake. I think the Punk/Rave cage could have been fucking awesome if it didn't kind of drag on with that elongated workover stuff. If they played it like DiBiase/Duggan it would have been so much better. The Rave/Styles street fight is fucking great, though. There's a spot near the end that I won't spoil that's worrying to watch.
> 
> 
> 
> the fuck REALLY!??? :mark:


DGUSA is where I remember that. Or at least he had the merch while he was there. 

Jade Chung. Can't forget that ass live. What

TOILET PAPER STREAMERS. I really wished I had my ROH DVDs w/me b/c I want Jimmy Rave goodies.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Wow, I didn't expect such a thorough and insightful career retrospective. Thanks a lot man that was really helpful and a great read all around. I'm moving Jimmy Rave, particularly his Punk and McGuinness matches to the top of my "To Watch" list. I have a feeling of déjà vu though, because about a month ago I needed something to watch and you and Flux sent me a bunch of recs from another guy I never heard of, also named Jimmy....Jimmy Jacobs. I ended up LOVING him and binge watching shit from Jacobs for like 4 days straight. Hopefully the same thing results from experiencing Jimmy Rave


I got in the mood and it sort of snowaballed into "why not hit the cliffnotes of his career" haha. No lie, the days while he was in the program vs Nigel ruled. After his losing streak angle he came back so awesome as a legit heel again. This time getting heat for just being a dick in ring, and injuring people. He's a different breed compared to Jimmy Jacobs. I think you'll get that immediately once you see him, but both are two dudes I've always been fans of. (Y)


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Did I really read somewhere in here that Rhodes Brothers and Reigns are teaming up? That sounds like heaven.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Never heard of Jimmy Rave to be perfectly honest. What ever became of him?


Completely pointless trail of conversation after Hayley's post but, the last time I saw him he was in (I believe) the Southern bowl of the indy scene. Had a really good match against Kyle Matthews in Rampage Pro last year.




funnyfaces1 said:


> Dick Murdoch is John Cena's favorite wrestler. Not sure where to start the discussion. Maybe by recommending his match with Barry Windham. Not the WWE one in Philly. That one sucked. The awesome 7/11/87 one. Somehow this discussion will progress.


There's a "Best Of" Dick Murdoch torrent on XWT Classics that's free leech. I have it downed and been meaning to sit through it. Wouldn't say Windham/Murdoch in WWF _sucked_, as it's an interesting view into how differently wrestlers had to work, even in their days. Or rather, especially in them days, when Titantrons weren't in every arena and you had to overly sell moves for the guys in the back rows.

But back to the important points:

1) There's a free leech torrent of his best works

2) JOHN CENA vs DICK MURDOCH :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rhodes Dynasty & Reigns? Yeah, where was this at?

Cena vs Murdoch. Oh man. That's now finally up there w/Lawler vs Necro to actually happen in the 80's.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Nvm, went back and saw it was "Brose" not Bros. Dammit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well....shit.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone know the date of Sid's 'Half a brain' promo?


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Man, Royal Rumble 1990 is comically bad. First you have the rougeaus vs. the bushwackers in a boring opener, then a bad comedy match that was trying to be serious in Beefcake vs. The Genius. Beefcake is lucky he was besties with hogan. At least Lanny is athletic. I'm watching Garvin/ Valentine expecting the experienced hands to have the Motn and they might still lol but going for covers in a I quit match Multiple times is just hilarious.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Valentine vs Garvin made themselves have a straight fail after working like the world's biggest morons in that match. Going for a pin, playing that role once, fine. But multiple times? How much coke did they each do before going out there? Probably not enough to balance w/the booze b/c Hogan had to win the Rumble later that night. GET JACKED, BROTHER.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Schivone with the body is just jarring and awful too.

I haven't gotten to the actual rumble match but I'm glad Perfect didn't win it only to lose to fucking Beefcake, ending his winning streak at Mania' 6


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The Fab Four said:


> Anyone know the date of Sid's 'Half a brain' promo?


15th November 1999


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Perfect ultimately losing to Beefcake was nothing more than a random babyface moment for Mania. Following it Perfect would be launched w/the IC Championship for the next few years. Beefcake would go on to breaking his face. I'd say it evened out.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

wait waaaaaaaaaaaaaat @ Murdoch/Windham from Philly sucking. Match rules.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Perfect ultimately losing to Beefcake was nothing more than a random babyface moment for Mania. Following it Perfect would be launched w/the IC Championship for the next few years. Beefcake would go on to breaking his face. I'd say it evened out.


Haha! Truth. Beefcake I guess was over but it just shows that winning streaks rarely mean anything.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> wait waaaaaaaaaaaaaat @ Murdoch/Windham from Philly sucking. Match rules.


I sense we have another Vader vs Hogan SuperBrawl scenario on our hands.



Lazyking said:


> Haha! Truth. Beefcake I guess was over but it just shows that winning streaks rarely mean anything.


That old school WWF booking & all. Who knows what to think.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Is Big Bossman underrated? I mean, I like him but no one talks about him.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Bossman ruled. Bubba Rogers v. One Man Gang from 87 is ********************1/4 evidence.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Potentially. Not to me he isn't. But I love the hell out of Traylor. I sense you are suggesting this after noticing he had the only other match on the Rumble PPV, next to the namesake, that was actually solid/good & not worth skipping.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Well yes and remembering I liked his work in the attitude era. Not like he deserved more, just that he was a solid big man heel. Good brawler, good seller. Maybe he's overlooked because he's not really memorable unless you see him again after a long time.

I've also always wondered, did he wear lifts in his first stint in WWF? When he was in the swat gimmick, he looks much smaller.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Upped this for research:

*Big Van Vader vs Antonio Inoki (New Japan)*



Vader looks like Venom from Spiderman here lol. Just trying to identify the date of this elsewhere, had it listed as 12/27/87, but that is when Vader squashed Inoki on his Japan debut, so think this is early '88. Loved seeing this early Vader.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

It's likely either 2/7/88 or 7/29/88. I can have a look which one it is via DVDs tomorrow if you want.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> It's likely either 2/7/88 or 7/29/88. I can have a look which one it is via DVDs tomorrow if you want.


Yeah mate, thanks. These are the Inoki matches on the Vader Comp:

Big Van Vader vs. Antonio Inoki (NJ 12/27/87) *
Big Van Vader vs. Antonio Inoki (NJ 2/7/88)
Big Van Vader vs. Antonio Inoki (NJ 7/29/88)
Big Van Vader vs. Antonio Inoki (NJ 1/4/96)

The one marked * is the video i uploaded, but it seems it isn't the correct date.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

1988/01/04 - Vader loses it via swinging Inoki into the ref for a DQ. Time matches up exactly to what's put here, too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rah said:


> 1988/01/04 - Vader loses it via swinging Inoki into the ref for a DQ. Time matches up exactly to what's put here, too.


Thankyou very much, someone else told me the correct date exact same time as yourself.  One mystery solved. Ill have to reauthor that Vader disc now.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I've seen SD this week and it was really all about two things - Rollins/Swagger, which was really good and I hope I can see an elongated version of the same match anytime soon; and Orton beating the fuck out of RVD, which was every bit as glourious as possible. Loved it. And I believe they might be building up to Reigns/Rollins or even a 3 on 1 Handicap match with Reigns/Orton, Rollins and Kane at NOC given how Reigns acknowledged the Ambrose/Rollins feud (which makes it stupid how Reigns never helped Ambrose when he needed).


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Reigns acknowleged the Rollins/Ambrose feud?

That makes him an even bigger scumbag lmao.

#ScumbagReigns


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Big Van Vader vs Antonio Inoki (New Japan 12.27.1987) (Vader Debut)*



> White's debut as the Vader character. Also includes Inoki's match just prior to Vader coming out. If Cena/Brock was shorter, this would be it. Here is information on the event, and the riot that followed:
> 
> http://theditch.us/riot.html


x24dipk

What a debut lol.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Bossman ruled. Bubba Rogers v. One Man Gang from 87 is ********************1/4 evidence.


Is that the match from UWF/Mid South?? If so I've seen it and it's absolutely awesome. Bubba also had a damn good match with Dr. Death from around that time. And then of course his classic with Vader at Spring Stampede 1994 which is just the best thing going.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ill upload that match if anyone wants it. The Twin Towers collide.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Has anyone seen or heard of the two Eddie Guerrero vs. La Parka matches on WCW Main Event in late 1996?


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

SSLAM 14 DVD Cover


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

SummerSlam 2014, also known as WWE's Oktoberfest 8*D


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

JY57 said:


> SSLAM 14 DVD Cover


Hm, I wonder who won the main event or that Steph/Brie match...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*One Man Gang vs Big Bubba Rogers (UWF Mid South) (04.19.1987)*


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The Fab Four said:


> *One Man Gang vs Big Bubba Rogers (UWF Mid South) (04.19.1987)*


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Lazyking said:


> Is Big Bossman underrated? I mean, I like him but no one talks about him.


Very underrated. 

Digging all the Bossman and :vader love. Two of my favorite big men. 




Starbuck said:


> Orton vs. Brock in St. Louis would actually be pretty frickin sweet on the HEELS of an Orton tweener/face/break from the Authority turn 8*D.


With Survivor Series in STL I'm pretty confident Orton will get a title shot. 



Lazyking said:


> Man, Royal Rumble 1990 is comically bad.


Agreed. Besides the Hogan/Warrior face off it's pretty forgettable. Which is sad because I really enjoyed the 1991 Rumble. 

Perfect should have won the 1990 Rumble. Perfect wins and Hogan could still come back and beat him up and close the show posing in the ring.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Hm, I wonder who won the main event or that Steph/Brie match...


Lol they show Brock with the titles too, easy give away. I don't know why they insist on doing covers like that, just show Cena facing off with Brock or something.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

This may be an unpopular but I'm going **** on The Chamber from SS 03. Goldberg was the main contributor with his carnage inflicting performance but didn't think that was the only pro, Shawn and Jericho's little squabble in the beginning was a fine show of competition and I really enjoyed the smarts of Trips to lock himself in the pod, good heel work on his part and RIC WAS SO AWESOME TOO. Nash reeking havoc after elimination lol), wasn't that his last match too?

I likey.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Belfast Brusier (Fit Finlay) vs Franz Schumann (CWA) (Vienna 1993) (Handheld) *

*Date on video says 1994



Hard hitting Irish street fight featuring the man Finlay.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

So apparently DDP was part of a storyline in WCW back in 1996 where he became homeless and had to wash windows to make ends meet. Does anyone know where these videos are? They're from WCW Pro, but it's a nightmare trying to find anything from that show that isn't Flair.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Has anyone seen or heard of the two Eddie Guerrero vs. La Parka matches on WCW Main Event in late 1996?


Not ringing a bell. There's one from 99 on one of the WWE Eddie sets but it isn't all that good. Do you have dates?



funnyfaces1 said:


> So apparently DDP was part of a storyline in WCW back in 1996 where he became homeless and had to wash windows to make ends meet. Does anyone know where these videos are? They're from WCW Pro, but it's a nightmare trying to find anything from that show that isn't Flair.


There's at least a couple of those on the 96 yearbook. They're really weird. The listing says they're from Prime and not Pro, though. Dates you'd be lookin for are 4/29, 5/6, and 5/13.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Not ringing a bell. There's one from 99 on one of the WWE Eddie sets but it isn't all that good. Do you have dates?
> 
> 
> 
> There's at least a couple of those on the 96 yearbook. They're really weird. The listing says they're from Prime and not Pro, though. Dates you'd be lookin for are 4/29, 5/6, and 5/13.


The date is 11/23/96. I think the other one turned out to be the 12/1/96 match that's on Youtube. For some reason, WCW Main Event just replayed full matches from other non-Nitro shows except for one "Main Event Exclusive" match. When you're talking about the Yearbook, are you referring to those PWO things?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'll have a look on my '96 Yearbook tomorrow.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Whomever made that comment about Brock vs Cena towards Vader vs Inoki knows their stuff. That's how I've been selling it to people for the past few years, too. Its identical. 

Smackdown can wait. I'm watching Bubba vs Gang right NOW.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> When you're talking about the Yearbook, are you referring to those PWO things?


Yup.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I want wrestling to be like that everyday. Thankfully I've gotten stuff like Show & Henry vs Harper & Rowan lately b/c gosh, I just want hosses to beat the piss out of each other every time I turn on a rasslin program.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Whomever made that comment about Brock vs Cena towards Vader vs Inoki knows their stuff. That's how I've been selling it to people for the past few years, too. Its identical.
> 
> Smackdown can wait. I'm watching Bubba vs Gang right NOW.


That was me.  Thanks for noticing my posts lol.

The DDP 11/23 isn't on the Yearbook.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao Chris Benoit lost to Big Show in 18 seconds because of his dumb girlfriend.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Uh-oh. You know what that means...

I still loves ya Benoit.

------------

and Zep, I got ya, man. :hayley3


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao Chris Benoit lost to Big Show in 18 seconds because of his dumb girlfriend.


With a dropkick! :lol _(I know he got chokeslammed after but I like to pretend the "match" consisted of only a dropkick)_

I can't wait until WWE adds Nitro episodes to the Network so I can get it and go through some WCW stuff because I've already murdered the WWE catalog of the past 15 years over and over and it's getting a little stale.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

You should download the WCW TV Matches 1989-1994 pack from XWT Classics and watch that. I'm doing so atm and it's a ton of fun. However I may post my reviews in the Classic Wrestling thread to try to spark up more discussion in there. We'll see.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Fab Four said:


> The DDP 11/23 isn't on the Yearbook.


I think funnyfaces was talking about Eddie/Parka when he said 11/23/96.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Classic Wrestling thread is good...once you move around that geek who only plugs his blog in there nonstop.

Smackdown was fun pardon the worthless Orton stuff. How many times is that going to be spun around? Knew Rollins vs Swagger would deliver. Digging the Swagger angle to help create sympathy for him as a face. Its working. Just super duper natural chemistry between the two. That transition out of the body scissors into the wheelbarrel suplex was ace. Every match that has that move is great, btw. Fun fact. Wyatts vs Dust Bros was rather swanky. Goldust got to bust out a total FIP bit the entire match & while I've loved Harper forever, Rowan is killing it lately. Between him, Rusev, & as always, Ambrose, those three are lighting it up in WWE for myself. Get so jazzed up when I see em. Paige's thighs. Natalya's thighs. And now AJ's thighs. What a great way to spend five minutes. Rusev rules the world. Lana is a great character. Fun squash vs Sin Cara where Rusev was still selling his bum ankle. Phenomenal. Mark Henry is godly. We all know this. Program between the two is MAAAAAAN. I like Miz's new Hollywood stuff. Reigns is still my guy. I enjoyed their brief spat. Orton taunting always works & Reigns squashing Miz was something I was kind of hoping would happen. Reigns doesn't need to be getting punked by Miz anymore than he was last week & Miz has flexibility w/his heel stuff to where seeing him get owned quick has massive appeal. Was that everything? Probably. Bo Dallas for America's Sweetheart has my vote.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> You should download the WCW TV Matches 1989-1994 pack from XWT Classics and watch that.


I have been meaning to do this for months but I'm old and not very good with computers so oh well. fpalm


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

No Way Out 2008

Chavo Guerrero vs CM Punk - ** (CAL SCALE - 1)
Undertaker vs MVP vs Finlay vs Big Daddy V vs Batista vs The Great Khali - Elimination Chamber - ***3/4 (CAL SCALE - 4)
Ric Flair vs Mr Kennedy - *3/4 (CAL SCALE - .5)
Edge vs Rey Mysterio - *** (CAL SCALE - 2)
John Cena vs Randy Orton - ****1/4 (CAL SCALE - 6)
Umaga vs Triple H vs JBL vs Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels vs Jeff Hardy - Elimination Chamber - ****1/2 (CAL SCALE - 7)

CAL SCALE: 20

Really enjoy this show. The 1st chamber wasn't incredible or anything but the end of it was really entertaining. Cena/Orton is still by far my favorite match in their series. The Raw elimination chamber is my favorite of all the ECs despite the NYR '05 one and Raw one from '09 being better. Really good show though. Debut using the CAL SCALE~!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I think funnyfaces was talking about Eddie/Parka when he said 11/23/96.


Oh lol.  Well, ive checked the Yearbook _funnyfaces_. These are those DDP segments that i have:

Homeless DDP Vignette 1 (Prime 4/29/96)
DDP Vignette (Prime 5/6/96)
DDP Vignette 1 (Prime 5/13/96)
DDP Vignette 2 (Prime 5/13/96)

If you need any uploading, lemme know.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye after seeing the strong rating for the Smackdown Chamber I thought you were going to join me as being the other guy who thinks that chamber DESTROYS the RAW one. _(which as you can tell, I'm not a fan of, ha)_ Guess I'll stay alone. :hmm:

Smackdown one is a blast and booked really swell. MVP is only in it for like two minutes & takes a crazy bump to make something valuable. Wonderful. Love Orton vs Cena like the majority seems to as well. Rest of the show is stuff I never have to see again.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Classic Wrestling thread is good...once you move around that geek who only plugs his blog in there nonstop.


I hate people like that...

oh hey posted Vengeance 2003 PPV Ramble on my blog today .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Here you go *Funnyfaces*. the DDP ones i have: 

*DDP 'Homeless' Vignette 1 (WCW Prime 04.29.1996)*

x24g4bc

*DDP Vignette (WCW Prime 05.06.1996)*

x24g503

*DDP Vignette 1+2 (WCW Prime 05.13.1996)*

x24g5p1

*DDP Vignette + Battlebowl Battle Royal (Finish Only) (WCW Slamboree 05.19.1996)*

x24g6cj


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

We are all not worthy of your presence, zep. How do you do it? And in record time!


----------



## Malicious1 (May 6, 2014)

Ambrose vs. Rollins RAW ****1/2. it was awesome. Better than their Summerslam match. The crowd was really into it, they never really had a slow moment in the match. The powerbomb into the Chairs was sick!. The Kane interference made sense because it made both parties look strong. Awesome match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

No problem.

Page has pretty much turned face on my Nitro watching after he put on an NWO shirt, then he put the Diamond Cutter on Hall. For the last couple of months he has been getting alot of face reactions, mainly, or partly at least, down to the Diamond Cutter.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I decided to throw myself into the abyss and FINALLY rewatch the two Main Events from Payback this year - Cena/Wyatt LMS and Evolution/Shield NHB.

Cena/Wyatt... well, I remain on the same ground as before pretty much: middle ground. On one hands (the "technical" one), it is the 2014 epitome of SPOTFEST~. Started off really good, then once the chair came into play, it just turned into non-stop spots really. Harper/Rowan/Usos spots were totally unnecessary. And the ending? Blehmania. That being said, the fact that it was a John Cena LMS match should've made it fairly obvious that this was the match they were going to wrestle. And to be honest, regardless of its faults, it was way too much entertainment for me to simply hate on. I've always said to myself that I cannot 100% loathe something that even though totally sucks is really fun. Which is basically the mindset for this match for me. Plus, some of the spots they took were killer and Chicago was fucking nuts for it. So yeah, entertainment wise this rules. That's all I'm giving it. Final rating for it: ***1/2*.

Evolution/Shield is an intriguing one to rate. Flaws: Godawful booking (like keeping them w/a traditional tag formula for 15-20 mins. and keeping all eliminations until the last 5 mins.), the WAAAAYYYY too slow pace and the normal tag work on one hand was fine but on the other was quite boring imo (not like ER where they kept it slow but interesting). Pluses: The Shield's entire performance (god bless Reigns for actually putting on good showings everytime he was there w/the others), dem COOL BUMPZ~, the beggining of the match where the brawled all over outside (which should've been like the entire match really), the crowd with little surprise there and some visuals like Evolution raping Reigns with the canes. As typical, Ambrose and Rollins contended for MVP of the match. The match was somewhat decent and could've been a hell of a lot better if they had just been let loose from the start, but even though like I mentioned the tag work itself wasn't bad, it was somewhat boring and totally disrupted the flow of the match. And that slow pace... UGH. I like myself methodical stuff if done right (i.e. most Mark Henry matches or, for a better example, the first Evolution/Shield match really), but this was overboard with that pace. Still decent stuff overall, w/a bunch of cool spots along the way and the Shield putting on a terrific last major performance. Just one that could've been much, much better. Final rating for it: ***1/2*.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Started watching GAB 06. I think I've got a boner from sheer awesome matches so far :mark:.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

So we've been more than halfway through 2014 for about two months now (holy shit), what would you guys say has been the match of the year so far in WWE? 

For me it's gotta be Shield/Wyatt from Elimination Chamber. Great build, two great factions going against each other for the first time in a long awaited match up, the crowd was really into it, it was very well booked, Roman Reigns actually contributed pretty well to the match, the in ring action was great and entertaining, and most importantly, they told a terrific story. I still to this day have my match rating for it as ****3/4.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Wyatts/Shield EC is far and away my current MOTY, it's not even close. Number 2 is where things get interesting for me. You have. Brock/Cena, Bryan/HHH, Cena/Cesaro's first match, Wyatts/Shield Main Event, Barrett/Sheamus IC Title Tournament, Ambrose/Rollins from Raw and I might be forgetting a couple all being worthy of that number 2 spot. Right now though I think it's Brock/Cena.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Yep, I'd prolly say Wyatts/Shield EC as MOTY then a hefty gap inbetween with Bryan/Wyatt from Rumble coming in as second.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cesaro/Zayn is my current MOTY, followed closely by Shield/Wyatts EC.

Here's my current top 30 list:


Spoiler: WWE MOTY 2014 list



TOP 30 WWE MATCHES OF 2014

(****3/4)
Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn, NXT Arrival
The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family, Elimination Chamber

(****1/2)
Triple H vs. Daniel Bryan, WrestleMania 30

(****1/4)
John Cena vs. Cesaro, Raw 2/17
Seth Rollins vs. Dean Ambrose, Raw 8/18
The Shield vs. Evolution, Extreme Rules
Daniel Bryan vs. Bray Wyatt, Royal Rumble
The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family, Main Event 4/8

(****)
Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Batista, WrestleMania 30
The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family, Raw 3/3
Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan, Raw 2/3
John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam
Rob Van Dam vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Jack Swagger vs. Seth Rollins vs. Dean Ambrose vs. Kofi Kingston, Money In The Bank
Randy Orton vs. John Cena vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus vs. Christian vs. Cesaro, Elimination Chamber
Sami Zayn vs. Tyler Breeze, NXT Takeover

(***3/4)
The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family, Raw 5/5
The Usos vs. The Wyatt Family (Harper & Rowan), Battleground
Seth Rollins vs. Dean Ambrose, SummerSlam
The Usos vs. The Wyatt Family (Harper & Rowan), Money In The Bank
Daniel Bryan vs. Kane, Extreme Rules
Sheamus vs. Cesaro, Payback
John Cena vs. Bray Wyatt, WrestleMania 30
Bad News Barrett vs. Dolph Ziggler, Raw 6/23
30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble

(***1/2)
Sheamus vs. Bad News Barrett, Raw 6/9
The Shield (Ambrose & Rollins) vs. The Real Americans, Raw 3/24
Sheamus & Christian vs. The Real Americans, 2/10
The Real Americans vs. The Rhodes Brothers, Main Event 3/18
Sheamus vs. Bad News Barrett, Raw 4/21
Randy Orton vs. Cesaro, Smackdown 2/14



Also, BadNewsSanta, love that you mentioned Sheamus/Barrett 4/21 as a MOTYC, but on rewatch, taking aside the sour fact that Sheamus won (UGH), I think that the 6/9 match (MITB qualifier) is better myself.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Shield/Wyatts from EC is my favourite match from this year, followed by Cesaro/Zayn.

Haven't watched Lesnar vs Cena yet.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Elimination Chamber from this year is fantastic, so many great spots and moments.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> Started watching GAB 06. I think I've got a boner from sheer awesome matches so far :mark:.


So I'm guessing that the Punjabi Prison match gets your goodwill?

One match in particular that I love with all my heart this year was the Shield vs. Bryan/Sheamus/Cena match after the Royal Rumble. Something about that match felt cathartic after the prior night's debacle. And all six men looked impressive with their own special moments. HOT crowd too. Reminded me a bit of the Dallas 10 Man from 2000.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

funnyfaces1 said:


> So I'm guessing that the Punjabi Prison match gets your goodwill?


Just up to that match now. If it holds up, then yeah. Always been a fan, though people tend to shit on it . FUCK THOSE PEOPLE THOUGH.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Gotta give it to both Matt Hardy and Rey Mysterio on that show. They both carried two guys who at the time were terrible wrestlers to good matches. Gregory Helms in particular surprised me by how bad he was in 2006. I like The Hurricane and Shane Helms, but as Gregory, he just did restholds and shitty punches before winning a match in disappointing fashion. That Cruiserweight title reign sucked.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

2014
1 The Shield V The Wyatt's ****3/4
2 John Cena V Bray Wyatt Wrestlemania ****3/4
3 John Cena V Cesaro Raw Feb ****1/2
4 John Cena V Bray Wyatt Payback ****1/2
5 Daniel Bryan V Triple H Wrestlemania ****1/2
6 Sami Zayn V Cesaro Payback ****1/2
7 Daniel Bryan V Batista V Randy Orton Wrestlemania ****1/4
8 Dean Ambrose V Seth Rollins Raw ****1/4
9 Dean Ambrose V Seth Rollins Summerslam ****1/4
10 Brock Lesnar V John Cena Summerslam ****1/4
11 The Shield V Evolution Extreme Rules ****1/4
12 Daniel Bryan V Bray Wyatt Royal Rumble ****1/4
13 MITB ladder match ****
13 Elimination Chamber match ****
14 The Shield V Evolution Payback ****
15 The Shield V The Wyatt's Raw ****
16 The Shield V The Wyatt's Main event ****
17 Cesaro V Sheamus Battleground ****
18 Randy Orton V Daniel Bryan Raw ***3/4
19 The Uso's V The Wyatt's Money In The Bank ***3/4
20 Daniel Bryan V Kane Extreme Rules ***3/4

Haven't seen a lot of TV stuff like the Barrett-Sheamus, Barrett-Ziggler, Shield-Real Americans and Sheamus-Christian matches.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You NEED to see any of the stuff you mentioned, dude. Well, not all - Sheamus/Christian stuff is solid at best aside from their Smackdown 2/21 match which is really fucking good. Really, they never really had that much chemistry against each other, and they wrestled one match, they wrestled them all. Shield/Real Americans is my favorite tag of the year (not the best in any means but my favorite), the Barrett/Sheamus stuff is gold (especially if you're into the Benoit/Regal/Finlay style) and Barrett/Ziggler IC Title is just a whole bucket of fun. The IC Tournament match between them is good too.

Which leads me to say that Barrett had a good match w/RVD this year (who asides from those matches and the Rollins one has been pretty much useless) TWICE. And had two decent matches w/Big E as well. 2014: THE YEAR OF BARRETT :barrett


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Might as well pop in my GAB 06 ratings while on the topic:

London & Kendrick vs The Pitbulls (***3/4)
Finlay vs Regal (***1/2)
Matt vs Helms (***)
Taker vs Khali (**3/4)
Kennedy vs Batista (***) 
Booker vs Mysterio (***1/2)

CONSISTENT AS FUCK.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

My WWE MOTYC (listed in rating order, then chronological order). These are the only things I've rated ****+
_
**** 1/2

The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family (WWE Elimination Chamber)

**** 1/4

John Cena vs. Cesaro (WWE RAW 2/17)
Triple H vs. Daniel Bryan (Wrestlemania XXX)
The Shield vs. Evolution (WWE Extreme Rules)
John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar (WWE Summerslam)

****

Daniel Bryan vs. Bray Wyatt (WWE Royal Rumble)
Antonio Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn (NXT Arrival)
Sami Zayn vs. Tyler Breeze (NXT Takeover)
Sheamus vs. Cesaro (WWE Payback)
Traditional Money in the Bank Ladder Match (WWE Money in the Bank)_

Honorable mentions for a slew of matches. Ambrose/Rolins FCA, Orton/Reigns at Summerlsam, Kane/Bryan Extreme Rules, Mania XXX 3-way, Cena/Wyatt Mania, Shield/Wyatts Main Event, Ziggler/Del Rio/Sheamus Main Event, Swagger/Rusev Flag match, etc etc.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sheamus/Christian matches bothered me. Like I don't think they did anything technically poorly, but the matches were just so boring. Work without any emotion behind it. Doesn't help that the wrong guy kept winning. But yeah, work without emotion. Just like that Windham/Murdoch match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker vs Show Punjabi Prison match is so bad. You'd think it would be kind of awesome b/c look at the two names & their chemistry, but it's just dirt. Then Batista vs Kennedy is 50x worse :lmao I like the other four matches on the show. Opener being my favorite. Even liking it a touch more than Regal vs Finlay. Gasp. But I do adore tag team rasslin. 

And Helms was good during his Cruiserweight Championship reign. The dominate anti-Cruiserweight. I've always loved Helms so it was easy to support a year of domination. Felt so vindicated.

Sheamus vs Christian matches rock. Really fun chemistry. It just flowed. The Sheamus bitching :hayden3


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*The Great American Bash 2006*

WWE's GAB shows get a pretty bad rep, and it's not always warranted. This show is a prime example! Though this WAS a Smackdown 2006 PPV. You have the Smackdown 6 in 2002/2003 ruling the show, then you have the Smackdown 2006 killing it!

Oh hey, Black Stone Cherry's Lonely Train as the theme. Another 06 SD PPV that got me into a band!

And let's not forget, this PPV was HUGELY screwed up due to a bunch of people being kept off the show due to "elevated enzymes in the liver". So the fact I think highly of the show in light of those circumstances shows just how SD in 2006 could do very little wrong! In the wrestling aspect, anyway .


*Paul London & Brian Kendrick Vs The Pitbulls - WWE Tag Team Championship Match*

:lmao JBL bitching at the fact they have a Spanish Announce Team on a Great AMERICAN Bash show :lmao.

Pitbulls are Noble and Kash btw. In case you thought the old ECW team was back. One of them would have to be back from the dead at this point I think.

No fancy shit to start this one off, instead they end up scrapping on the mat to fight for control, then locking up and trying to gain control that way, and then they throw some punches too :mark:. London is losing the more brawling style this match is turning into, so he quickly changes his strategy and throws out a dropkick and from there is able to take Kash down a few times and tag Kendrick in to keep up the momentum.

Interesting to see these two styles meshing like this. Londrick flying around, and even though Noble and Kash CAN do that stuff too, they know they can't do it AS WELL as Londrick so they try and work the match to their strengths which would be fighting and controlling a body part.

DOUBLE SUICIDE DIVE~!

Man, every time you think The Pitbulls are gonna have a nice long control segment, London and Kendrick just keep coming back with high flying moves to create enough distance between them and their opponents to make a tag. And then London tries to skin the cat and gets dropkicked to hell :mark:. Now that was a pretty spectacular transition spot tbh. NOW we can finally get a good FIP :mark:.

Great teased hot tag spots. Kash almost accidentally lets London tag out, but stops him just before, then decides to play around with him and let him go for a tag a couple of times, then pulls him back and smashes him in the face with forearms :mark:.

HOT TAG~! Kendrick owns everyone :mark:.

In the end, the teamwork for London and Kendrick shines through and they pick up the win. Good match, liked how they didn't stick to the basic STF but instead played around with it a little and gave us something well worth watching .

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


Khali is screaming some incoherent shite then picks up Daivari and shakes him around because he's mad.

TEDDY LONG~! He probably just jerked off to that tag match 8*D. Anyway, he's out here to tell everyone that Lashley is unable to compete tonight. Finlay and Regal come out and want Long to declare Finlay the winner, but instead he makes a US title match between the two friends! :mark:


*Finlay Vs William Regal - WWE United Championship Match*

Lashley not being able to compete is actually for the best .

Regal being the veteran he is and knowing Finlay so well, looks under the ring first to make sure Hornswoggle isn't there. Then they both decide to leave the ring and not wrestle... and Finlay tries to roll Regal up! Regal decks him in the face and gives him a stern talking to :lmao.

Well now they got that out of the way, it's time for them both to actually compete! Pretty epic Collar and Elbow tie up! They go to the mat, roll out to the floor, then walk up the steps and back into the ring, while still in the hold!

Oh man, the Regal/Hornswoggle stuff is amazing :lmao. Hornswoggle grabs Regal's leg, then smacks Regal in the back of the knee with the Shillelagh forcing Regal to run away and hide on the steps like that women in the old Tom and Jerry cartoons when she'd see Jerry and jump on a chair :lmao. Then Regal turns around and Swoggle is staring at him, so Regal makes one of his awesome faces and runs the fuck away back into the ring :lmao. Only Regal could make a Hornswoggle spot epic!

Speaking of epic; REGAL AND FINLAY BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF EACH OTHER :mark:.

Finlay takes the WORST Half Nelson Suplex I've ever seen... then Regal gets his hand bitten by Hornswoggle and Finlay targets the hand :mark:. Teddy Long probably jerked off to the tag match and I'll probably jerk to this later . THIS IS AWESOME *clap clap clap clap clap*.

Man, Cole and JBL are really, really putting over Regal and Finlay :mark:. Going into their backgrounds and saying how TOUGH they both are and how awesome it is that they are both on Smackdown. I miss those times. God I <3 SD 2006!!!

Crazy to think that when I first watched this match (live in 06), I thought it was shit. I was disappointed as FUCK with it. Then I re-watched for my Smackdown 2006 project and fucking LOVED IT. And now I think I'm gonna end up loving it even more!

Fans chant BOOORING because they are fucking retarded, and Cole covers for it by saying they want Lashley, hence the boring chants.

Love Finlay's apron spots :mark:. Gets his opponent caught up in the apron cover the fucking beats the living shit out of them.

Regal is now missing a boot! And of course, Finlay makes sure to STOP THE SHIT out of the exposed foot! Not sure how the boot came off, but Cole says it was likely Hornswoggle, and moments later, he pops up and hands Finlay the boot! Finlay smacks Regal in the face with his own boot and retains the title!

This. Fucking. Rules. God I absolutely cannot wait to see both Regal and Finlay's single matches with Benoit on PPV this year too :mark:.

*Rating: ****1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 6*


REY AND CHAVO~! Of course they talk about Eddie all the time.


*Gregory Helms Vs Matt Hardy*

Fuck me the hits just keep coming! I know I said this PPV was really good and whatnot, but honestly I didn't remember most of the card this time around. This might end up being fucking GREAT lol. Certainly off to one hell of a start!

Helms is the CW champ, but Hardy ain't light enough to compete for it so this is just a straight up match. Both guys were absolutely killing it every week on SD around this time. More examples of the awesome talent SD 06 had!

These two go way back, all the way to the old Omega promotion days, so they have almost a natural rivalry going and can be put in a none title match like this and still make it come across as important because of their history. Especially now that Helms is heel and the CW champ and going out every week with a chip on his shoulder and proving people he's as great as he claims to be.

:mark: Hardy mocking Helms by striking the Hurricane Pose :mark:.

Helms regains control and really takes it to Matt, grounding him and working the head and neck, and being in complete control of the match. Every time he stepped in the ring in 2006 it seemed like it was trying to prove something, and it resulted in one hell of a CW title run.

SWINGING NECK BREAKER FROM THE TOP ROPE~!

Great Hardy comeback with some sweet counters :mark:. Eye of the Hurricane countered into a Twist of Fate countered into another neckbreaker :mark:.

Awesome finishing stretch, with the neck and head work coming into play for the finish! Helms + Hardy + Smackdown 2006 = :mark:.

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


Khali is hunting down Undertaker, who shows up and goes on the attack, only for Big Show to run him down! Teddy Long is pissed, and decides to switch out Khali for Big Show! Khali also had that liver shit.


*The Undertaker Vs The Big Show - Punjabi Prison Match*

So what the fook is a Punjabi Prison Match? Well, a cage made out of bamboo, with doors that open on a timer or something... then another cage around it that you have to escape to win. Stupid? Yeah. But it's BIG SHOW VS UNDERTAKER so who cares? 

Show is, well, terrified. He's in this unique structure for the first time, against the fucking UNDERTAKER. And when you corner a scared animal, he tends to react violently, and Show is no different. Takes the fight right to the Dead Man at the start, hoping to keep that momentum going and prevent Undertaker from punching his face in.

Undertaker punches his face in.

Huh, Undertaker tries to climb out of the first cage... despite it having spikes on top... and FOUR DOORS TO ESCAPE THROUGH. 

Ha, JBL just used my caged animal analogy. 

Undertaker and Show are beating the fuck out of each other :mark:.

CHOKESLAM COUNTERED INTO A DDT~!

One door is opened, but 60 seconds run out before anyone can escape so now it's CLOSED FOR GOOD.

Show rips a fucking noose or something from the cage and uses it to wear down 'Taker. I guess they thought this match could be so horrible based on the concept that they'd better give the wrestlers something to hang themselves with :side:.

Another door opens and oh noes nobody escaped and it's CLOSED FOR GOOD.

CHOKESLAM~!

So this has definitely had some great stuff so far. 2 giants punching each other in the face is always going to appeal to me in some form haha, but man oh man there is a LOT of slow down here. Show was REALLY out of shape around this time, which is part of the reason he left the company at the end of the year. Had he been in better shape this might have had a better pace. But hey, at least Khali wasn't in the match!!! 

UNDERTAKER IS BLEEDING~!

Fuck me. Despite the fact there are still TWO DOORS LEFT... Show tries to climb out. Both of them have made that retarded mistake now.

HOLY SHIT UNDERTAKER SUPERPLEXED BIG SHOW~!

UNDERTAKER ESCAPES THE FIRST CAGE THROUGH A DOOR~!

:lmao Undertaker looks to climb the second structure, then randomly decides to try and kick a hole in it instead :lmao.

Big Show is free! Throws Undertaker through a randomly placed table, then puts Undertaker back into the ring right as the last door is closing for good!!! Smart by Big Show!

Luckily for Undertaker, Big Show, as I just mentioned, is out of shape so he can't exactly climb the cage quickly .

Undertaker climbs out, and reaches over to the second cage as it higher up that Show! They battle on the side of the cage, and Undertaker uses a randomly placed rope (WHAT IS IT WITH ALL THESE FUCKING OBJECTS IN THE CAGE LOL?) and swings himself at Big Show! I bet Paul Burchill ain't happy with that! 

LEG DROP THROUGH ANOTHER RANDOMLY PLACED TABLE~!

BIG SHOW IS BLEEDING~!

CROSS BODY FROM THE FIRST CAGE ONTO THE BIG SHOW, SENDING THEM BOTH THROUGH THE SECOND CAGE~! Undertaker somehow wins! 

Well, I don't think this match sucks like a lot of people do, but it's still nothing special. Like I said, it's too slow in parts. Cut 5 minutes or so off the match and this would have been much better. They did what they could with a new (shitty) gimmick match and not much time to plan what they were gonna do thanks to Show being Khali's replacement.

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


Awful Booker T and Sharmell backstage segment. Urgh. King Booker was so damn bad.


*Kristal Vs Ashley Vs Michelle McCool Vs Jillian Hall - Bra and Panties Match*

FAP FAP FAP NO.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


Miz interviews Kennedy. Is that the worst pairing EVER? :lmao


*Batista Vs Mr Kennedy*

Originally supposed to be Henry Vs Batista, but Henry got INJURED and was unable to compete. Nothing to do with his liver lol.

Batista is PISSED. PISSED. He's returning to the ring since he got injured in January, and the guy who injured him, Mark Henry, got injured before Batista could gain revenge. So poor Mr Kennedy is just fodder for the ANIMAL :mark:.

Kennedy gets his face smashed into the steel steps and he is BUSTED OPEN. So Batista takes it upon himself to PUNCH THE OPEN WOUND :mark:.

Mr Kennedy isn't happy about being busted open and goes to leave... then runs back in to surprise Batista and gets fucking RUN OVER :mark:.

Man, Kennedy's cut is fucking bad lol. It seems to fire him up and he is able to actually gain the advantage! Anyone who was around to see my Smackdown 2006 Project reviews will know I constantly praised Kennedy with how he was able to create openings for himself during matches and take full advantage, and this is yet another match where he demonstrates that talent.

:mark: Batista takes a beating from Kennedy but is still pissed off he ends up firing back and absolutely fucking MAULING Mr Kennedy, so much so the referee calls for the bell! Mr Kennedy wins!

For Batista though, this wasn't about winning or losing. This was about destroying someone and taking out his anger and frustration from being injured and having to give up the WHC 7 months ago.

SPINBUSTER~!

SPINEBUSTER~!

SPINEBUSTER~!

BATISTA BOMB~!

So this kinda rules. Kennedy looked good, Batista looked good, and the match did its job. Batista is BACK and looks unstoppable, while Kennedy looked strong and even technically got the win!

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Rey Mysterio Vs Booker T - World Championship Match*

Bah, I wish I could NO this match. Stupid main event title match.

Fucking SHUT UP Bradshaw. I'm surprised he can talk so much while having Booker's black cock in his mouth. SLURP SLURP SLURP.

More EDDIESPLOITATION to start the match as Booker screams EDDIE CAN'T HELP YOU to Rey in hopes of getting the crowd to support Rey.

Here we go! The first ever Hell in a Cell match. The Undertaker, fighting for revenge. Shawn Michaels, fighting to survive. Also, something that is often forgotten about this match, the #1 contendership for the WWF Championship at Survivor Series is on the line too!

Before the match starts, we see referee Earl Hebner padlock the cell door shut, as Shawn pleads with him to let him out. No chance Shawn. You danced with the devil, and now you are about to get burnt!

With the door locked, the match can begin. HBK circles the ring, as The Undertaker slowly stalks his prey. After everything Shawn has done to him over the last couple of months, The Undertaker wants to put Shawn through a lot of pain, and is going to take his time doing it. He sees no need to rush, no need to run after Shawn, because unlike Ground Zero, he has nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, and no one to save him.

After playing a bit of cat and mouse, The Undertaker catches up to Shawn in the ring, and here we go! Nothing fancy, just ‘Taker grabbing Shawn by the back of his head, and ramming him into numerous turnbuckles. Shawn sells them like he just hit concrete, which some people would state he is overselling, but personally I loved it, and felt it made The Undertaker seem like a vicious powerful monster, which WWF were really turning him into at the time.

Shawn takes a beating for a couple of minutes, with ‘Taker working over the arm, hitting Old School, and even going for a cover at one point. Was The Undertaker trying to win? No, I don’t think he was. He gave Shawn a beating a month ago at Ground Zero, and Shawn never gave up, so he knew it would take more than what he had done so far to put HBK away. So why go for a cover? Because he can. He is showing Shawn that HE is in control, not Shawn. Also, kicking out of a pin attempt with a 300+ pounder on top of you wastes energy, and just helps The Undertaker more. A question some of you may be thinking is “why did Shawn kick out?”. Good question, because let’s face it, if Shawn didn’t kick out, the match would be over and he would escape the possibility of worse pain. Going back to what I said earlier, this match is for the #1 contendership. Shawn, like everyone in the WWF, wants the WWF Championship. Winning this match will place him in a title match, where he is one step closer to being champion once again. Then there is the fact Shawn is an arrogant heel, and beating The Undertaker will feed his ego, and give him bragging rights forever more.

The Undertaker decides to step things up a bit, as he grabs Shawn by the throat, seemingly going for a Chokeslam! Shawn senses this, and desperately fights his way out, sending ‘Taker into the corner. He mounts him, and begins to punch ‘Taker in the head. The Undertaker throws Shawn off, and he flies half way across the ring, again perhaps overselling, but IMO putting The Undertaker over even more. Shawn is a resilient man though, and he quickly gets to his feet and charges over into the corner to mount the Dead Man once again. 

Every time Shawn attempts any offense, The Undertaker just shrugs it off and continues his epic assault on the “Sexy Boy”. The fight goes to the outside, and things are about to get brutal. ‘Taker imposes his will on Shawn, using his size and power along with the deadly cell walls to inflict more pain and damage. A couple of spots I always enjoy are when The Undertaker picks up Shawn, then smashes him back first into the ring post, turns around and smashes him back first into the corner of the cell, turns around again and smashes him in the ring post once again, then turns around one last time to send him back first into the corner of the cell. The other is when ‘Taker goes for a powerbomb, but Shawn seemingly reverses it, punching The Undertaker repeatedly in the face, only for The Undertaker to turn around and repeatedly smash Shawn into the corner of the cell again! When Shawn drops to the floor, you can see the marks on his back left by the cell, showing you that he really did hit the cell, and he hit it hard.

The underlying story of this match continues, with Shawn using the cell to attempt an escape from the pain and destruction The Undertaker has on his mind. He tries his best to climb up the cell wall to get away, but The Undertaker is tall enough to reach up and drag Shawn back down, back to hell.

Again the cell comes into play in this match, this time providing Shawn with an opening he so desperately needed. ‘Taker whips Shawn into one of the cell walls, then comes running at him, only to smash face first into the cell himself! I’m unsure if it was Shawn being able to dodge the attack, of if the sheer force of The Undertaker’s Irish Whip caused Michaels to bounce off and dodge the attack, but either way it created an opening, and HBK took it!

Just as Shawn appears to have the advantage, The Undertaker fights back. But as quickly as he re-gained control, he loses it! Shawn knocks The Undertaker off the apron, and sends him into the cell, then follows it up with a suicide dive, again driving The Undertaker into the cell! He isn’t giving ‘Taker time to recover, as he climbs the cell once again, this time to drop an elbow! Shawn is looking strong in this match now. He has used his speed, quickness and high flying ability to gain control, and is now using dirty tactics to keep that control. One of my all time favourite spots (not just from this match, but in general) right here, as Shawn hits a Piledriver to The Undertaker, ON THE STEEL STEPS! It makes one hell of a sound, and just looks incredible.

But even after all of that, The Undertaker crawls back into the ring. Again, this is putting over The Undertaker as an unstoppable monster, while at the same time, showing how resilient and CREDIBLE Shawn Michaels is when he is in the ring with the bigger, stronger opponent. Shawn doesn’t like the fact The Undertaker is still coming after him, so he pulls out a steel chair! This epic feud all began with a steel chair shot, and Shawn hopes to end it with one. I say one, but Shawn hits ‘Taker twice for good measure, and makes the cover! 1…2… NO! The Undertaker is not going out like that again. He still needs to extract his revenge on Shawn, and a steel chair isn’t going to do it this time.

The match starts to change from this moment on, as The Undertaker back body drops Shawn over the ropes, and onto a camera man. Shawn begins to beat the hell out of the camera man, laying him out on the floor. Why did he do it? I believe because he knew it would force the referee to open the door for EMT’s to attend to the guy, and the open door would allow Shawn to escape.

Until then though, Shawn must keep The Undertaker at bay. HUGE elbow drop from the top, followed by Sweet Chin Music! While all of this is happening, the door has been opened too! This is the part where I now feel the door being opened was a contingency plan, IF his superkick was not enough to put down The Undertaker. After all, what would be better than pinning The Undertaker in this match, instead of running away?

Of course, things don’t quite work out for HBK, as The Undertaker sits right up from Sweet Chin Music! Shawn is shocked, and makes a run for the door before it’s closed again! The Undertaker follows him out and catches him, sending him into the cell wall on numerous occasions, and busting him open too!

Shawn is lucky once again to find a small opening, but what is he going to do with it now? Inside the cell, he was unable to put the Dead Man away with his finisher. Outside of the cell, he was still unable to get away from the monstrous beast. The only thing left, if for him to CLIMB to the top of the cell! Unfortunately for Shawn, The Undertaker, even at 330lbs, near 7 feet tall, is able to follow him up there too! 

Both men are now on top of the cell, and Shawn attempts a Piledriver up there, but instead gets a back body drop onto the steel! If that wasn’t bad enough, The Undertaker lifts him over his head, and slams him from over 7 feet in the air to the steel! Right hand now by The Undertaker, and Shawn nearly falls off the edge! He holds on, while The Undertaker has something sick on his mind. He stomps on one hand, he stomps on the other hand, and…

“Incoming!”

Shawn Michaels has nothing to hold on to, and falls back from halfway up the cell, through the announcer’s table! It crashes under the weight, and Shawn is a bloody mess on the concrete floor! It’s not over yet though, as The Undertaker climbs down, and slams him onto the floor!

While the majority of this match has been about The Undertaker being an unstoppable, almost un-human DESTRUCTION MACHINE, it’s also all about Shawn showing off just how damn resilient he is. After everything The Undertaker has done to him, he is STILL able to get up, and following the story of the match, does his best to get away from The Undertaker.

The Dead Man catches up to him once again, and throws him back into the cell, and the referee padlocks it shut one more time! Shawn is bleeding even more it seems, as it is flowing from the head of the Heart Break Kid.

The Undertaker has complete control now. He senses the time is right to put away the man who cost him the title, and starts it all off with a Chokeslam from the ropes! WOW! That isn’t enough though, as ‘Taker goes to the outside, and brings in a steel chair! As I’ve said before, this feud started with a chair shot, and The Undertaker wants it to end the same way. SICK chair shot to the bloodied head of Shawn Michaels, and payback is a BITCH! Undertaker signals that the end is here, but the lights go out, and we hear the eerie music of the man we discover to be… KANE!

Kane RIPS open the cell door, takes out the referee, and then stands face to face with his brother The Undertaker. He raises his arms, then brings them down to release fire from all 4 corners, just like The Undertaker has been known to do! The Undertaker is distracted, allowing Kane to hit a Tombstone!!!

Paul Bearer wakes the referee up, Shawn raises his head from the pool of blood he was lying in, and covers the Dead Man! A slow count, but The Undertaker is OUT of it. Shawn Michaels has WON!

Holy Shit! Every time I watch this match, I love it more and more. I love everything about it. From the way they build off the Ground Zero match with Shawn trying his best to simply get away, to the epic debut of Kane, which gives Shawn the big win, making him more credible going into the Survivor Series to fight for the title, while at the same time keeping The Undertaker credible from this loss, and further building The Undertaker/Kane feud that had been slowly boiling for months now.

People have been talking about Hell in a Cell matches for years, comparing them, ranking them, praising them and dissing them. I’ve seen people make excellent points as to why another cell match is more brutal, or why another cell match has more action, or why another cell match has better storytelling ect ect. That’s all good, people have different opinions, and that’s what makes us individuals. However, I do disagree with their opinions. I strongly believe that no other Hell in a Cell match has better storytelling, action, or even brutality. Sure, it might not be as straight up brutal as Brock Lesnar/The Undertaker, but it doesn’t have to be IMO. The fact that it’s built around one man just destroying the other makes it brutal to me. Then the blade job from Shawn, the fall from the cell, and the puddle of blood in the ring where Shawn is makes it just as brutal to me. It is only one of two cell matches that combines those three factors into the match (the second being The Undertaker Vs Edge, SummerSlam 2008), instead of just using two of the three, or in some cases, one.

This was the first ever Hell in a Cell match. I strongly believe that is has never been matched, and probably never will. It set the standard, and is the measuring stick not only for Hell in a Cell matches, but every other gimmick match too IMO. It shows perfectly how to combine storytelling, action and brutality into a single match, as well as how you put over both men involved, and even put over a completely new wrestler that has never been seen before the match (Kane). This was the first ever Hell in a Cell match, and I strongly believe it is the GREATEST MATCH OF ALL TIME. *****.

Huh, what? Oh, sorry. Booker T Vs Rey Mysterio. Chavo costs Rey the title because he sucks. Like this match. Rey was alright in it, but man Booker sucks hard. Didn't help that most of the time Rey got any offence in, it seemed to be some shitty set up to a 619. You could make a drinking game out of it; take a shot every time Rey sets up a fecking 619. You'd be smashed before the match is over. Which probably helps immensely.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 13*​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao

Tremendous swerve


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SHEAMUS rules the planet but I couldn't bring myself to care about the Christian series. WWE kept overdoing it as if it was some kind of rib towards the audience or some inside joke. They didn't even bother changing the result as Sheamus won every single one of them from what I recall. Saw one then couldn't bother with the rest. Think it was the match from Chicago. It was alright but nothing that had my mouth watering for more.

Only seen three matches from No Way Out 2008 and they were all awesome. The two chambers and Cena vs Orton. Really can't decide between the Raw chamber match and Cena/Orton for MOTN.

I view the Raw chamber as a slightly downgraded version of the GOAT chamber match from 2005 with everybody reprising a role from the latter. (Umaga = Batista, Orton = Hardy, HHH = HHH, HBK = Benoit, Jericho = Jericho, JBL and Edge are the odd men out)

EDIT: :lmao @ the main event swerve.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Holy shit I was legit confused for a moment. :lmao


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> But yeah, work without emotion. Just like that Windham/Murdoch match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Cal that was freaking brilliant. Bravo sir, well done :clap


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Have some time to spare an off work tomorrow so come on guys, top 5 funnest PPVs to watch. Perhaps some PPVs you think had a card where every match gave a solid showing, perhaps a personal favourite of yours, give me some suggestions.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

:lmao at that Main Event SWERVE by Cal. I guess New Year's Revolution or Survivor Series next, right?

Strictly WWE here but SummerSlam 2002, Survivor Series 2002, Canadian Stampede, No Mercy 2006 (MVP squash aside, and even that had its hilarity) and WrestleMania 19 fit the mold of what you're looking for.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WCW Beach Blast 92
WWF SummerSlam 01
WCW SIN
WWF Canadian Stampede
WWE Survivor Series 02


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Erik. said:


> Have some time to spare an off work tomorrow so come on guys, top 5 funnest PPVs to watch. Perhaps some PPVs you think had a card where every match gave a solid showing, perhaps a personal favourite of yours, give me some suggestions.


Extreme Rules 2012 (every match offers something positive)
Summerslam 2002 (arguably the best WWE PPV of all time)
Summerslam 2013 (much like ER 2012 except the "ring of fire" match is terrible)
Summerslam 2014 
In Your House: Canadian Stampede (whole card is ***+)


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

ATF said:


> Strictly WWE here but SummerSlam 2002, Survivor Series 2002, Canadian Stampede, No Mercy 2006 (MVP squash aside, and even that had its hilarity) and WrestleMania 19 fit the mold of what you're looking for.


Think I'll leave SS02 as it's already one of my favourite PPVs. Been a while since I've seen Canadian Stampede, that main event though! Definitely going on my list. 2006 was in the middle of my break from wrestling so I may have to give NM06 a look too, thank you,



Hayley Seydoux said:


> WCW Beach Blast 92
> WWF SummerSlam 01
> WCW SIN
> WWF Canadian Stampede
> WWE Survivor Series 02


As someone growing up with WCW in the early 90s, Absolutely love these recommendations. Going to have to put both on my list, Steamboat vs Rude though? :mark: - Second to mention SS02 so I will be giving that a viewing too.


Jack Evans 187 said:


> Extreme Rules 2012 (every match offers something positive)
> Summerslam 2002 (arguably the best WWE PPV of all time)
> Summerslam 2013 (much like ER 2012 except the "ring of fire" match is terrible)
> Summerslam 2014
> In Your House: Canadian Stampede (whole card is ***+)


Recently watched ER12 before SS14 because of the whole Lesnar/Cena. Was incredibly fun, showed me as to why I really like Sheamus as a worker. Will agree with you on SS02, its one of my favourites. Three recommendations and all have mentioned Canadian Stampede :lol


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Not sure if these are my top favorite PPVs but here are 5 PPVs that I can turn on and watch the whole thing anytime I'm in the mood for a PPV.....

Wrestlemania 3
Spring Stampede 1994
Canadian Stampede 
Summerslam 2002
Money in the Bank 2011

Honorable Mention: 
Wrestlemania 4
Wrestlemania 7
Starrcade 1991
Royal Rumble 1991 or 1992
Royal Rumble 2000
Extreme Rules 2012


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

After watching some DDP in WCW, the Diamond Cutter is one of my favorite finishing moves, love it. :mark:


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

For some less obvious ones - No Mercy and Vengeance 03, WM22, ER 11, SS 06 and SS 08.

Oh and RR 05. Eddie and Benoit abusing Daniel Puder with a never ending spree of chops for his backstage/on-screen behavior = PURE AWESOMENESS.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nobody has recommended him Backlash 2000. SHAME ON YOU ALL.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> WCW Beach Blast 92
> WWF SummerSlam 01
> *WCW SIN*
> WWF Canadian Stampede
> WWE Survivor Series 02


Are you sure about this one? I ordered the show on PPV as a kid and liked it but aren't there like 12 matches or something silly on it and I can't imagine a lot of them are very good.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

#ROOT said:


> Nobody has recommended him Backlash 2000. SHAME ON YOU ALL.


:lol it is usually the norm to be recommended SS02, WM17, WM19 and Backlash 2000 as those are usually the most talked about WWE PPVs, Backlash not as of the high quality of the formers but for how it should pretty much have been what WM2000 should have been. Plus Malenko/Scotty.



MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> For some less obvious ones - No Mercy and Vengeance 03, WM22, ER 11, SS 06 and SS 08.
> 
> Oh and RR 05. Eddie and Benoit abusing Daniel Puder with a never ending spree of chops for his backstage/on-screen behavior = PURE AWESOMENESS.


Will look to check out NM and Vengeance from 03. What are some of the standouts in these PPVs. This would have been around the time I had a small break, the cards don't look too pretty on paper.




MachoMadness1988 said:


> Not sure if these are my top favorite PPVs but here are 5 PPVs that I can turn on and watch the whole thing anytime I'm in the mood for a PPV.....
> 
> Wrestlemania 3
> Spring Stampede 1994
> ...


Thanks for these recommendations, some real fun picks there. I had recently watched every WM in build up to WM30, believe me this was a chore, three is great though, I wish I was around and old enough for that time of wrestling I really do.

Spring Stampede I think I will definitely view. I do love a good Rumble, so I think I will give 2000 (For that Too Cool pop, Taz debut, street fight) and 05 as mentioned above.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Spring Stampede 1994 should be required viewing for every wrestling fan.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Probably add Spring Stampede 1999 too. 

*Jim Hellwig vs Phil Hickerson (1984/5) (Memphis)*

x24gz2w

Had to look twice to realise it was Sting also there lol.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Spring Stampede 1994 should be required viewing for every wrestling fan.


Steve Austin/Muta
Regal/Pillman
Sting/Rude
Vader/Bossman
Flair/Steamboat

I imagine with the recommendations, this card lives up to that billing.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It sure as hell does. Sting/Rude and Flair/Steamboat especially, which are both extra :mark:. If TGAB 1989 isn't WCW's best show ever (technically NWA but whatever ), SS 1994 is definitely. 1999 is also badass imo.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Flair/Steamboat goes 30 minutes!? :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, somewhere around 30 minutes. I forgot to mention it up there, but another match that is an extra :mark: is the Chicago Street Fight AKA MICK FUCKING FOLEY RULING THE WORLD BABY.

Foley deserves the universe. Almost everything he does works. He should've lead the HOF last year (even if w/Bruno inducted he had no shot).

Speaking of which, has anyone seen any Bruno Sammartino match, and is there any good one?


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

ATF said:


> Yeah, somewhere around 30 minutes. I forgot to mention it up there, but another match that is an extra :mark: is the Chicago Street Fight AKA MICK FUCKING FOLEY RULING THE WORLD BABY.
> 
> Foley deserves the universe. Almost everything he does works. He should've lead the HOF last year (even if w/Bruno inducted he had no shot).
> 
> Speaking of which, has anyone seen any Bruno Sammartino match, and is there any good one?


I recently watched Sammartino/Hansen in the cage. I watched it as if I was a wrestling fan in the 70s and it blew my mind. Crowd were fire too.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Regal/Pillman, Sting/Rude, and Muta/Austin were all disappointing. Despite that, the show still ruled.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Brye after seeing the strong rating for the Smackdown Chamber I thought you were going to join me as being the other guy who thinks that chamber DESTROYS the RAW one. _(which as you can tell, I'm not a fan of, ha)_ Guess I'll stay alone. :hmm:
> 
> Smackdown one is a blast and booked really swell. MVP is only in it for like two minutes & takes a crazy bump to make something valuable. Wonderful. Love Orton vs Cena like the majority seems to as well. Rest of the show is stuff I never have to see again.


:argh:

The Umaga mark in me loves the the Raw one. I thought the opening minutes with Jericho/HBK and then the following minutes with Umaga beating up both of them were awesome. The spot to Jericho from Umaga into the pod is insane. And JBL with dem chairshots! Could have done without the ending, didn't think that was all that amazing but I enjoy the hell out of that match. Smackdown one is pretty damn fun though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wait, Sting/Rude SS 1994 wasn't the one I was thinking of. I was thinking of STEAMBOAT/Rude (the Iron Man match), not Sting :lmao

Sting/Rude is the one where the referee is down for the almost the entire finishing stretch until Sting pins Rude, right? That one was ehish. SS 1994 still rules, though.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

ATF said:


> Speaking of which, has anyone seen any Bruno Sammartino match, and is there any good one?







Not sure this is your type of match, though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> :argh:
> 
> The Umaga mark in me loves the the Raw one. I thought the opening minutes with Jericho/HBK and then the following minutes with Umaga beating up both of them were awesome. The spot to Jericho from Umaga into the pod is insane. And JBL with dem chairshots! Could have done without the ending, didn't think that was all that amazing but I enjoy the hell out of that match. Smackdown one is pretty damn fun though.


Umaga was the definite star of the match. We're copacetic there. He's about the only thing I like in it.



ATF said:


> Wait, Sting/Rude SS 1994 wasn't the one I was thinking of. I was thinking of STEAMBOAT/Rude (the Iron Man match), not Sting :lmao
> 
> Sting/Rude is the one where the referee is down for the almost the entire finishing stretch until Sting pins Rude, right? That one was ehish. SS 1994 still rules, though.


Ok good. I don't think anyone can like Sting vs Rude. It's crummy, w/a joke finish. Rude not even trying 

Everything else on that show rules though. Per legendary praise.I even really dig Muta vs Austin, but yeah, Muta is my guy. Regal vs Pillman getting labeled as disappointing. HA.

--------------

So I slammed through SummerSlam 96. Despite liking four out of the seven matches, it really isn't too strong of an event. Felt like a lot of lag & there was a chunk that just wasn't any fun. Crowd was dire too. And sure, we all know how terrible the four way tag match is but GOOD LORD Goldust vs Mero is even worse. Two talents (one great & the other good) that look swell on paper go out and work a match like they had no idea in what they were doing. Hell, even the tag match managed to still get some heat & reactions at various points. Goldust vs Mero was met w/zero reaction. No heat at all. And w/good reason. Dreadful. Owen vs Savio was a fun opener. Wished Savio would have done some selling on his arm when the match was picking up in the end, but it wasn't like it was his dominate arm and it only really looked a bit iffy when he was shooting off for an irish whip. Owen is always quality so it worked. King is the greatest heel so everything w/Jake got a reaction from me. Fine w/the match too. King does his shenanigans & I always like it. Jake wasnt even bad on the offense either. Did what it needed to. Double main event still clicks for me. I went into detail on Vader vs Shawn a little bit ago. I've seen this like three times in the last...month in a half. idk why, but now it is imprinted on my brain. Boiler Room Brawl is long & wacky, but I always approve. Certainly a "match" that isn't for everyone.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Woof, that Bruno match goes at nearly an hour. Don't feel like watching it atm .

I was kinda bored so I decided to compile a TV match-only card w/2014 matches:


> Pre-show
> Batista vs. Sheamus
> Smackdown 3/28/2014
> (My rating: ***)
> ...


 If this were a PPV and Orton/Bryan were with the WWE WHC on the line, this would've been a PPV of the Decade contender. 

I think I might start more of these, with other years :hmm:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I've never seen Spring Stampede '94... does that make me a bad wrestling fan? 

ATF, I would've added Ambrose/Rollins Falls Count Anywhere to that card and went with some other Wyatt tag match in its place (against Cara & Matadores is totally fun and I can't think of anything else OR Usos vs. Rowan & Harper from RAW) so then you could've thrown in Punk/Reigns or Del Rio/Reigns as an 8th match. I would've used AJ/Natalya from Main Event as a Divas match too. Either way, a pretty cool idea ya had there. (Y)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

All the Sheamus matches this year, and you pick that one? :side: Other than that, it looks good. But Sheamus/Ryback :ryback

Regal/Pillman was not bad, but considering that this was Regal in his career year and Pillman before the car crash, this should have been more than just "not bad". Regal was on offense for so long that it turned into diminishing returns. Pillman didn't really get many hope spots until the last 45 seconds. Regal's leg was hurt, but that only came into play for like ten seconds. Instead, Pillman works on the arm in his short period of offense. Lots of sloppy moments, including the poorly executed ending.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

FUCK, I forgot about Sheamus/Ryback. Well, whatever, Sheamus/Batista is good for DRAWZ~, and isn't that the intent of pre-show matches 

I also thought of Ambrose/Rollins FCA and Usos/Wyatts the night after MITB iirc, but I felt like I needed a Shield/Wyatts match better, even if the previous option would've allowed for better STAR RATINGZ~. I didn't use AJ/Natalya because I wanted a Divas Title match instead even if they all sucked, plus AJ/Paige would've let me use something out of the Raw after Mania, which is the biggest TV show of the year and deserves some recognition; and ADR/Reigns is pretty good but I didn't think it was worthy of my choice (and Punk/Reigns didn't really do much for me either) .

That being said, 2014 isn't GALAXIES close to the show I came up with for 2013:



> Pre-show match
> Adrian Neville vs. Sami Zayn
> NXT 11/27
> ***1/2
> ...


Eat your heart out, SummerSlam 2002.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ill have to check out that Sami Zayn vs Jack Swagger match, although the only i have is marked Sami Zayn vs Jack Swagger - NXT 04.09.2013


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Nevermind that Hitman, 9/5/2013 was still the only Zayn/Swagger match anyway 

I changed it to Zayn/Neville because Swagger is competing in the main card - though thinking about it, Swagger lasted about 5 minutes in there w/Bryan in that Gauntlet, so maybe it's not too bad to include Zayn/Swagger :hmm:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, i have the right one then lol. (Damn US date shit)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Regal dominating Pillman was wholly apt. A ton of Southern Style implications have the babyface make the comeback near the end for a swift victory _(or in this case near victory only halted by presence of a time limit)_ I just think after seeing it so many times, most would realize it was a staple of the matches. Not worthy of a gripe.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Did people talk about Spring Stampede 94 and not mention the MOTN????????


I love WCW Regal and still think 94 was his best year, but him taking a bit too much of a match is kind of a thing that a few of us didn't really like in the WCW poll ("us" being "people who made a list"). Sometimes he needed to give his opponent more shine. Think the most primary example is that Davey Boy match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

In some cases, it was to our benefit. Biggest case being that Sting match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Did people talk about Spring Stampede 94 and not mention the MOTN????????
> 
> 
> I love WCW Regal and still think 94 was his best year, but him taking a bit too much of a match is kind of a thing that a few of us didn't really like in the WCW poll ("us" being "people who made a list"). Sometimes he needed to give his opponent more shine. Think the most primary example is that Davey Boy match.


I don't know what's wrong with people, Dustin vs Bunkhouse Buck stole the show for me, absolute master class and one of my favorite go to matches when I'm bored.

For those interested in watching Spring Stampede 1994, here are the ratings for the best matches off the top of my head:

Dustin vs Bunkhouse Buck: ****1/2
Cactus Jack/Maxx Payne vs Nasties: ****1/4
Vader vs The Boss: ****1/4
Flair vs Steamboat: ****1/4
Regal vs Pillman: ***1/2
Austin vs Muta: ***1/4

So yea, top 5 PPV ever IMO, Jack Evans get off your butt and watch it


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I feel good showing love to some of the other forgotten goodies on the event like Regal vs Pillman & Austin vs Muta. I always jump to the holy grail trilogy that was Dustin vs Buck, Vader vs Boss, & Jack/Payne vs Nastys. Changing it up.

and I'm generally cool w/all the Regal domination aspects. Can't really name a match where it bothered me.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

The Great American Bash 1991

_Scaffold Match_
*PN News and Bobby Eaton vs. Steve Austin and Terrance Taylor*

This truly might be one of the worst matches ever. I’ve heard Austin joke about this before but after seeing it I almost can’t believe how bad it was. I can’t really blame anyone that was in the match. The scaffold was shakier than normal and it seemed way too narrow as well. Throw in a giant guy that would die if he fell and you have a recipe for disaster. They literally did nothing other than lay around on the scaffold for 10 minutes. I’m glad I watched the match because it was to the point of being comically bad. 
*DUD*


*The Diamond Stud w/Diamond Dallas Page vs. Z-Man*

Scott Hall would end up being pretty great in the ring but he wasn’t great in the ring yet. I also don’t think Z-Man has been all that great so the match really didn’t work. Hall took control of the match and he never really lost it. Z-Man got a few moves in but not really that much and his comeback was shut down pretty quickly. Overall just a boring match to watch.
*½* *


*Oz w/The Great Wizard vs. Ron Simmons *

I’m starting to wonder if there was some sort of conspiracy to make the start of this show bad. Nash would get better but he was pretty terrible at this point. He did some cool moves to local jobbers but he did none of them to Simmons despite controlling most of the match. Simmons wasn’t particularly great either as he got no offense in and what he did do was really basic. When the match ended the show had been going on for 45 minutes and I dare you to find a more boring 45 minutes.
*¼* *


*Richard Morton w/Alexandra York vs. Robert Gibson*

The one thing that I took out of this match is that both guys are a lot better in tag matches. What this match really needed was a hot tag. Morton stalls for a while at the start of the match and consults the computer a few times. Standard heel stuff really. Things get good once he attacks that leg that had Gibson out of action for a while. Gibson naturally sells the leg like a champion. The problem is that the leg work went on for so long and Morton’s offense wasn’t all that interesting to watch. It got a little repetitive in all honesty. Gibson was amazing at selling the leg but the problem is that he didn’t have anyone to tag in so he had to do his own comeback and it just wasn’t as good as when he makes the hot tag. The comeback wasn’t even all that sustained either as he was briefly on offense before he got with the computer and lost. This wasn’t a bad match as they laid down a really solid foundation and Gibson’s selling was amazing. But the leg work wasn’t great and the comeback was nearly nonexistent. I feel like they could have done a lot better. And I feel like they could have done a lot better if this was a tag match and not a singles match.
***1/4* 


_Elimination Match:_
*Dustin Rhodes and The Young Pistols vs. The Fabulous Freebirds and Bad Street w/Big Daddy Dink*

The use if the elimination stipulation was pretty pointless as 80% of the match had all 6 guys in. Once the first elimination took place the rest quickly followed. The Freebirds were fun to start things off as they stalled when they needed to and were over the top with the heel antics because they had 3 guys and just 1 ref. They worked a solid isolation on one of the Pistols but it didn’t really lead up to much of anything as the hot tag wasn’t all that hot. Once there was the first elimination things picked up and it was fun to watch. Michael Hayes got eliminated for throwing someone over the top rope but it was stupid because he did it to someone that had already been eliminated. Other than being annoyed at that the whole end sequence was pretty fun. Can’t say this was anything too amazing. It was interesting to watch and I’m usually amused by the Freebirds so it was decent enough. The match also wasn’t boring and never dragged and you can’t really say that about anything else on the card so far.
****


*The Yellow Dog w/A Yellow Dog vs. Johnny B. Badd w/Teddy Long*

Yellow Dog was Pillman with a mask because he recently lost a Loser Leaves WCW match. The match wasn’t terrible but I wouldn’t call it good either. Before this match Pillman had been doing some really good underdog babyface work but he didn’t give a performance like that here. I’m not a huge Marc Mero fan and an early Marc Mero was even less impressive than what he normally was. 
**1/4* 


_Lumberjack Match:_
*Big Josh vs. Black Blood*

Billy Jack Haynes is Black Blood if you’re wondering. That was probably the most interesting thing about the match that I can talk about. It wasn’t the worst big man match ever but it wasn’t that great either. The lumberjacks were more of an annoyance as they just slowed the pace down even more and distracted you from what was going on. Also it was pretty funny that there were only 8 of them. The ending was also hilarious as Black Blood attempted to chop Josh with some type of sword/ax/whatever. Like a real weapon. As in if he was successful he would have killed Big Josh. Dustin Rhodes saved the day though and the match ended with a roll up.
*¾** 


*One Man Gang w/Kevin Sullivan vs. El Gigante w/4 Dwarfs* 

This didn’t totally suck so One Man Gang most deserve a ton of credit. El Gigante was actually decent enough as well which is shocking for me to say. The match was watchable because One Man Gang took some impressive bumps. He took a fall off the top rope and a suplex from El Gigante. Since both guys are just so big the suplex really was an impressive sight to see. Sullivan and Gang used all of their heel tactics to keep Gigante down but it didn’t work. This might not mean much but I would say the match was better than a decent number of matches on this show.
**1/2*


_Russian Chain Match_
*Sting vs. Nikita Koloff*

The entire show has been terrible so far. Shockingly bad really. Sting and Koloff had a good match at the previous Clash so I was hopeful that this would save the show. It didn’t. I mean it was better than everything else but it really wasn’t that great. They had a fun brawl to start things off but the gimmick just hurt this so much. Watching them brawl was fun but for the finishing stretch it was just so stupid. I don’t think anyone in the ring, including the ref, had ever seen a chain match before because they were both tied at 3 for about 3 minutes and the ref wouldn’t reset things. At one point Koloff actually looked at the 4th corner when Sting was down and the ref told him if he touched it he won and Koloff didn’t touch which he easily could have done. The end was just so stupid and really made me forget about the fact that the rest of the match was actually pretty good. 
***1/2 *


_Steel Cage Match for the Vacant WCW Championship:_
*Lex Luger vs. Barry Windham *

Things started off kind of slow here but it didn’t bother me too much because it felt like I was seeing a genuine feeling out process. Both guys seemed very tentative and neither were willing to take much of a risk at all. While it didn’t make for the most interesting match it did stress that there was a lot on the line here. The middle part of the match I wasn’t a huge fan of because they didn’t develop any type of heel/face dynamic or really do anything to get me interested. This is a problem that I often have with Luger as I have a hard time really getting into his matches unless he’s in the ring with Flair but Windham didn’t do anything to get me interested either. They did pick the pace up towards the end and then I did get into the match again as both guys were wrestling with the appropriate sense of urgency for such a big match. The match only went 12 minutes or so and there was a chunk in the middle that didn’t do much for me but I did like the rest of the match. The pace was constantly escalating and both guys did convey that there was a lot on the line. 
***3/4* 


_Steel Cage Match:_
*Rick Steiner vs. Arn Anderson and Paul E. Dangerously* 

Missy Hyatt was supposed to Steiner’s partner but she was kidnapped by Dick Slater and Dick Murdoch (Steiner didn’t seem bothered by this) and didn’t make it into the cage. Steiner proceeded to beat Anderson and Heyman in about 2 minutes. Why was this the main event?
*½**​

This was the first show that Flair didn't wrestle on and I already miss him.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Watching The Wolf of Wall Street right now but Spring Stampede '94 seems like rather required viewing afterwards.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Spring Stampede 94 > the film.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

I feel bad. I've watched Angle vs Brock about 5 times in the past year. I just can't get behind it like you guys itt. I know it's praised high in here like ****1/2. I give it ***3/4 or there about.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I'd watch a Hunter/Steiner match over The Wolf Of Wall Street. Gosh, that film stunk.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

If you're in the mood for a series of matches reminiscent of Albert/Kane, go watch Macho Man vs. Hugh Morrus stuff. I think the dates are 2/12/96, 5/6/96, 12/8/97, and 10/21/95.

Which Angle/Lesnar match did you watch?


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Oh, I'm sorry. I watched their SummerSlam encounter. I like their WM match just a tad more and absolutely LOVE their Ironman match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't like WM. But love SummerSlam. I remember loving the Iron Man, but it has been a good while.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Royal Rumble 2008 (Figure I'd back track one show and just go through 2008 )

Ric Flair vs MVP - * (CAL SCALE - 0)
JBL vs Chris Jericho - **1/2 (CAL SCALE - 1)
Edge vs Rey Mysterio - **3/4 (CAL SCALE - 1)
Randy Orton vs Jeff Hardy - ***3/4 (CAL SCALE - 4)
Royal Rumble Match - ***1/4 (CAL SCALE - 2)

Total CAL SCALE: 8

So far:

No Way Out - 20
Royal Rumble - 8

- Opener was kinda lame. Not a huge MVP fan but I expected something a tad better. A Flair's final go project, starting when Vince announced his next loss would be his last, might be a fun project for the future though. Some good TV matches from that.

- Jericho/JBL had it's moments. That feud didn't really go anywhere if I recall but the match was at least physical.

- Edge/Mysterio was a tad too basic for me. Cool ending but it didn't really get overly exciting.

- Orton/Harvey was just as fun as I remember it being. Remember thinking they built up Jeff great going into it.

- I remember really liking this Rumble when I watched it live. Taker and HBK kept it interesting early, Morrison did some fun stuff but ultimately the first half was slow. The Snuka and Piper entrances were really cool. The Finlay situation was odd. Never really explained it. Things picked up when Trips came in and then Cena made his big return. Fun match but not nearly as good as I remember.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> All the Sheamus matches this year, and you pick that one? :side: Other than that, it looks good. But Sheamus/Ryback :ryback


Probably my favorite singles match from either of them this year, and on the best SD! of the year no less, which also featured:

Bryan/Cesaro
Goldust/Wyatt
Christian/Orton

:ryback


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Steiner Brothers vs. Legion of Doom (3/11/96)

This was supposed to be The Nasty Boys vs. LOD, but Allah saved us by not allowing them to get inside the arena. It doesn't stop there, as The Steiners return from their hiatus in motorcycles to save this garbage tag team division with only one team worth respecting. And LOD was not that one other team.

Scott Steiner's strength. My god. Powerslams, pumphandle slams, double arm powerbombs. It's surreal to see Hawk and Animal bump like cruiserweights for anyone, but thank goodness they do it tonight. Crowd went crazy for the Hawk/Rick Steiner staredown, which leads to fists and forearms to ablaze. Sweet German suplex and top rope belly to belly on Hawk. Scott comes in and things turn into a more traditional tag match, although there really isn't a FIP of sorts here. Just two teams beating the shit out of each other. God damn that Doomsday Device was beautiful. I thought that would end it, but Scott breaks the pinfall to continue this. God damn these release german suplexes. Scott and Rick try to do a Doomsday Device of their own, but it fails. Now everybody is jumping off of the top rope! FRANKENSTEINER, but it's not over. Steiners hit the bulldog, but Animal hits Rick Steiner with the spike. Hawk no-sells and picks up the victory.



On this same episode of Nitro, Flair sings "he's got the whole world in his hands".


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Orton vs Jeff is cool to the max. Love that match. Jeff was a star born (for good) after that program.

Sheamus vs Ryback. :mark:

Think I like a different Smackdown more than edition though. Maybe. I didn't like Orton vs Christian & Danielson vs Cesaro a few weeks later was way better. Goldust vs Bray tho. That ruled.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

It amazes me how much I enjoy Ryback now. I really didn't like him in 2012. One of my favorite heels on the roster now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

We're back to that little bit where we talk about Ryback. Yay. THE BIG GUY.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Never had a problem with THE BIG GUY. I hope they repush him again at some point. He's good against the right opponents and he's an entertaining heel on the mic plus way better than the three idiots on commentary.

Orton vs Hardy is super fun stuff (as is their TV matches). Orton vs Christian from earlier this year is solid but probably my least favorite of Orton's gauntlet run from February.

Brock vs Angle from SummerSlam is their best match imo. Love it a lot, WM is okay and Ironman is classic but too long for me to watch on a regular basis like I do with SS.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Orton and Matt Hardy ever have a worthwhile match-up?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

They have two matches I think. One from 2005 that I don't remember at all and another from 2008 after Wrestlemania on Raw (31 March iirc) which is good.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Simpsons episode with Bret Hart is on the Simpsons marathon right now. :mark:

Also I'm completely for a Ryback push back into the upper midcard. Part of the reason he failed the first time was because he was literally given no personality.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I liked Ryback before liking Ryback was cool <_< (didn't want him winning the title from my boy, Punk, though  )


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Ryback failed because they buried him repeatedly. He is supposed to be this unbeatable monster yet he loses all his big matches. Interference or no interference, there's only so long he could lose matches before becoming a jobber and losing his overness.

Now I'm only two shows away from finishing 1997.  They've introduced the WWF scratch logo, The Rock is becoming The Rock, Mark Henry debuted and Austin is about to throw the IC belt over the bridge.

EDIT: Now Vince is giving his Attitude Era speech. Shit is on! :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Does liking Ryback from Tough Enough count of or not? b/c, who was rooting on Miz or Puder? C'mon now.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I was rooting for JUSTICE SMITH :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Can someone be kind enough to give me a list of Taker's best TV matches from 2006 other than the Angle World Title match and Last Man Standing vs. Khali? There's a pack on XWT and I'm not trying to download all 14 matches if it's not all worth it. Running out of space on my computer with all this wrestling on it. 

(_totally expecting someone to come in here and say that it's all great_) :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well shit...all of it is great. :sansa

but really, only 14 matches, get em all and cram the session. Def get the Henry match following WM _(I do believe that's the date)_ b/c it rules.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Date is 2/10/06. I have brought up this match IDK how many goddamn times. There is a re-match that was one its way to being just as good, but shitty as fuck Khali debuted in the middle and ruined it.


Taker/Angle v. MNM/Henry stuck out as one of the better 06 Taker TV matches to me. I want to say it happened the week after the great Taker/Henry. Actually I thought the second Taker/Henry happened the week after the great Taker/Henry, but I'm pretty sure Khali didn't debut before Mania. Right? Drawing a blank on other Taker 06 TV stuff, but I guess a deal of it might be post-SummerSlam and I never finished watching 06 SmackDown.


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Ryback failed because they buried him repeatedly. He is supposed to be this unbeatable monster yet he loses all his big matches. Interference or no interference, there's only so long he could lose matches before becoming a jobber and losing his overness.
> 
> Now I'm only two shows away from finishing 1997.  They've introduced the WWF scratch logo, The Rock is becoming The Rock, Mark Henry debuted and Austin is about to throw the IC belt over the bridge.
> 
> EDIT: Now Vince is giving his Attitude Era speech. Shit is on! :mark:


Do you find all 97-98 shows on youtube and dailymotion (i 've already found a lot of them) or is there another magical place to be? Thanks in advance


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Whoops. Yeah, I think the Khali debut match is the Taker vs Henry match following WM. Got my wires crossed.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Time for my favorite PPV of all time, Wrestlemania XXIV! :mark:

We'll see if it holds up after I've reviewed copious amounts of shows.

*Wrestlemania 24*
Finlay vs JBL - ***1/2 (3)
Money In the Bank Ladder Match: CM Punk vs John Morrison vs Shelton Benjamin vs Chris Jericho vs Mr Kennedy vs MVP vs Carlito - ****1/4 (6)
Batista vs Umaga - *1/2 (.5)
Kane vs Chavo Guerrero - DUD (0)
Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair - ***** (9)
Dvias tag match - NO (-1)
Randy Orton vs Triple H vs John Cena - ***3/4 (4)
Floyd 'Money' Mayweather vs Big Show - ***1/2 (3)
Edge vs The Undertaker - ****1/2 (7)

Total CAL SCALE points: 31.5


- Finlay/JBL is just a fun match to watch. Had just about the right amount of time and the brawling is great. The feud surrounding it was odd, to say the least, but the match kind of owned.

- This is still my favorite MITB. Benjamin dies, Matt Hardy saves us from an MVP MITB run, PUNK WINS PUNK WINS, crazy cool spots and that insane tower of doom off the ladder. I fucking love this match. 

- Umaga vs Batista is one of the most disappointing matches I've ever seen considering what I felt it could have been. It just never kicked it up a gear. Really a shame.

- No reason to skip Chavo/Kane. It's under :10 and I'm in no rush. Plus it's kinda funny.

- HBK/Flair is MOTY so far for 2008. I've watched this match countless times and it never gets old. Both guys had their emotion on their sleeves and I thought it was a perfect way to end Flair's career. Loved it then, still do. 

- The triple threat has grown on me. When I saw it live, I felt like I was still coming down from the HBK/Flair high and it didn't seem to deliver. However since then I've really enjoyed the match. I tend to enjoy triple threat matches as is but I thought this one went a bit above and beyond. It's no Edge/Cena/Trips but it's still pretty good.

- Floyd/Big Show is just pure fun. It's not your average wrestling match but they managed to make it really interesting. Show manages to really sell Mayweather while still looking dominant as fuck. Show killing Mayweather's entourage is hilarious btw.

- Despite an awesome HIAC at Summerslam, I still consider this my favorite match of the Edge/Taker feud. Edge wasn't exactly the threat to the streak that some of his other opponents were, but it didn't get in the way of this match being fantastic.


And for the year 2008 so far:

Wrestlemania - 31.5
No Way Out - 20
Royal Rumble - 8


Now time to finally go to sleep. Not putting off getting my haircut another day and my barbershop closes obscenely early for some reason. :side:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

WRESTLEMANIA 24 WORSHIPPING :bow

My favorite (not best, but favorite) WM ever. Edge/Taker, Floyd/Show, HBK/Flair, Orton/Cena/HHH, MITB, Finlay/JBL, funniest match in WM history (Chavo/Kane) :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Show killing the entourage sold WM for me. Undertaker winning the World Championship, CM Punk winning MITB, & a Finlay vs JBL street fight type match were honest to goodness bonuses. _(not really, but in a certain context, YES)_ I was so against the Mayweather trash that Show making it work all by himself was wonderful. As if I didn't have enough to support why Show OWNS. Hey, & Kane wins two matches on that show too. Plus, I'm so glad Orton retained instead of having Triple H win. Damn. No wonder everyone loves th6e show. The only downside is Flair lost.

Shame the follow up PPV, Backlash, is _AWFUL_.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Flair losing and having to "retire" (LOL 8*D) was only a matter of time anyway, and everybody knew it was going to be at WM so it's not all bad. Plus, the match w/HBK was great regardless (even without the raw emotion felt on the original watch, the drama and tension could be cut with a knife in that match). Oh, and Show fucking Mayweather up was a sight of glory. Floyd deserves a bit of respect too for actually doing what celebrities rarely if ever do and that's take bumps, nevermind bumps for the fucking Big Show. Best celebrity match ever, bar none.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah. No good comes from the result of the Flair match.

Tempted to Cal Scale this show just for the hell of it. That requires snowflakes for a change but I can use that system to comply. Been meaning to try Cal's invention for sometime. Never found a show where the desire was strong enough.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh yeah, as in Flair's "retirement". Good ol' Naitch and Hogan got similarities there - they both gotta get dat one last match again :lmao

But hey, w/Flair I can sense there's something backing up the madness there. He IS Flair after all. However, God forbid Hogan gets his wish of one last big paycheck BROTHER.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Talking about Wrestlemania 24? Always considered it the most underrated WM:

Finlay/JBL- ***1/4
MITB Match- ***1/2
Batista/Umaga- *
Kane/Chavo- DUD
HBK/Flair- ****1/4
Orton/HHH/Cena- ***3/4
Floyd/Show- ***
Undertaker/Edge- ****1/2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Cactus Jack, Dean Malenko & Too Cold Scorpio vs Eddy Guerrero & The Steiner Brothers (ECW Wrestlepalooza 08.05.1995)*

x24icto

* By request


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 24 = 6th best WM for me. 18 on the CAL SCALE~!

WrestleMania 24 - 18

Finlay Vs John Bradshaw Layfield - *** - 2
John Morrison Vs Shelton Benjamin Vs CM Punk Vs Mr Kennedy Vs MVP Vs Carlito Vs Chris Jericho - ***1/4 - 2
Batista Vs Umaga - 1/2* - 0
Chavo Guerrero Jr Vs Kane - * - 0
Shawn Michaels Vs Ric Flair - ***1/2 - 3
Ashley & Maria Vs Melina & Beth Phoenix - NO - -1
Randy Orton Vs John Cena Vs Triple H - ***1/4 - 2
The Big Show Vs Floyd Mayweather - ***1/2 - 3
The Undertaker Vs Edge - ****1/2 - 7


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Today I have really not much to do at all, so I'm going to burst through my 2013 TV-match-only card that I busted out a few pages ago. Here's it for those who are interested:



> Pre-show match
> Adrian Neville vs. Sami Zayn
> NXT 11/27
> ***1/2
> ...


Already saw Neville/Zayn and Barrett/Sheamus (the latter was the Main Event MOTY for 2013 imo, just clobbering and nastyness at its finest), on my way to watch Eve/Kaitlyn which I remember being way better than expected.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Was thinking earlier of a Faces Of Fear/Road Warriors match, found out they had a couple in early '96:

Faces of Fear vs Road Warriors (Nitro 01.29.1996)
Faces of Fear vs Road Warriors (WCWSN 03.09.1996)

The Saturday Night one only went about 5mins though. 

Im a couple of weeks away from the Nitro with the Eddy/Jericho vs FOF match on it. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

THOSE HAPPENED?

I hate myself for having this completely blank in my mind. All I remember from Road Warriors in mid-90's WCW is a bunch of dragging, terrible tags. Harlem Heat was around. But Meng vs Hawk from...Slamboree 95, iirc, OWNS. So those tags should too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> THOSE HAPPENED?
> 
> I hate myself for having this completely blank in my mind. All I remember from Road Warriors in mid-90's WCW is a bunch of dragging, terrible tags. Harlem Heat was around. But Meng vs Hawk from...Slamboree 95, iirc, OWNS. So those tags should too.


I didn't realise either lol, was just thinking of what a great pairing they could make. Here is the Nitro match:






I could upload the Saturday Night one too if you like.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

PLZ.

Well this night of no sleep just got better :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> PLZ.
> 
> Well this night of no sleep just got better :mark:


*Faces of Fear vs Road Warriors (WCWSN 03.09.1996)*

x24ioeg

Think it is the FOF vs Benoit/McMichael match from Halloween Havoc, Barbarian does a sick belly to belly throw on Benoit off the top turnbuckle. :mark:

Love me some Meng/Barbarian. Need to watch the WWF Rockers match too at some point, havn't seen it in years.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I don't know what's wrong with people, Dustin vs Bunkhouse Buck stole the show for me, absolute master class and one of my favorite go to matches when I'm bored.
> 
> For those interested in watching Spring Stampede 1994, here are the ratings for the best matches off the top of my head:
> 
> ...


Damn I'm looking forward to this now. Thanks.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Fab Four said:


> *Faces of Fear vs Road Warriors (WCWSN 03.09.1996)*
> 
> x24ioeg
> 
> ...


Yep, its the Havoc tag that has that terrific spot during the great match.

First FOF vs Road Warriors match was immense :mark: Lovelovelovelove. MENG got tagged in and immediately beat the piss out of Hawk like he just stole something from his mamma's wallet. Phenomenal.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just watching the 2/10/97 episode of Nitro, really good Regal/Mysterio match just on. Damn time limit draw though.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Want to know about two matches that sound AWFUL on paper but in reality are quite good? Chavo vs Helms and Vito vs Reno from WCW SIN 2001. Chavo/Helms is a nice back and forth Cruiserweight bout, and Reno/Vito is two big son of a bitches slamming and beating on each other. Good stuff, definitely good stuff.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I've seen Chavo/Helms before, liked it for it's cool back and forth action, but that Vito/Reno match sounds both woeful and intriguing tbh.

Wanna know two top contenders for the most awful-on-paper overachieving match of all time? Either Batista/Khali Punjabi Prison, or motherfucking *WEELC*.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Erm, i loved the WEELC match lol.  Was going to upload it if anyone wants it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I already have WEELC uploaded for anyone who wants it, so that'll save you some time .

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k2CaOOBDa26iYP7pmXB


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Date is 2/10/06. I have brought up this match IDK how many goddamn times. There is a re-match that was one its way to being just as good, but shitty as fuck Khali debuted in the middle and ruined it.
> 
> 
> Taker/Angle v. MNM/Henry stuck out as one of the better 06 Taker TV matches to me. I want to say it happened the week after the great Taker/Henry. Actually I thought the second Taker/Henry happened the week after the great Taker/Henry, but I'm pretty sure Khali didn't debut before Mania. Right? Drawing a blank on other Taker 06 TV stuff, but I guess a deal of it might be post-SummerSlam and I never finished watching 06 SmackDown.


You've covered most already. The rest are against Booker T, Gregory Helms, a tribute to the troops match against John Morrison, and a few tag matches with Kane. I think the tag matches are somewhere on my computer already.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker 2006 SD TV matches:

The Undertaker Vs Gregory Helms - Smackdown october 20th 2006 - 1/4* - 0
The Undertaker Vs MVP - Smackdown December 1st 2006 - 3/4* - 0
The Undertaker Vs Mark Henry - Smackdown April 7th 2006 - * - 0
The Undertaker Vs King Booker - Smackdown August 4th 2006 - *1/2 - 0.5
The Undertaker & Kane Vs Mr Kennedy & MVP - Smackdown December 15th 2006 - *3/4 - 0.5
The Undertaker Vs King Booker - Smackdown September 22nd 2006 - **1/2 - 1
The Undertaker Vs Mark Henry - Smackdown February 10th 2006 - *** - 2
The Undertaker & Kane Vs MVP & Mr Kennedy - Smackdown November 3rd 2006 - *** - 2
The Undertaker Vs The Great Khali - Last Man Standing - Smackdown August 18th 2006 - ***1/2 - 3
The Undertaker & Kurt Angle Vs Mark Henry & MNM - Smackdown February 17th 2006 - ***1/2 - 3
The Undertaker & Kane Vs Finlay & King Booker - Smackdown December 22nd 2006 - ***3/4 - 4
The Undertaker Vs Kurt Angle - World Heavyweight Title - Smackdown March 3rd 2006 - ****1/4 - 6


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> I already have WEELC uploaded for anyone who wants it, so that'll save you some time .
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k2CaOOBDa26iYP7pmXB






#ROOT said:


> The Undertaker & Kane Vs Finlay & King Booker - Smackdown December 22nd 2006 - ***3/4 - 4


Ill have to dig out my Kane DVD, don't think i've seen this one.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Perfect! Now I don't have to download all that shitty stuff. Thanks Cal. (Y)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

the frenchise said:


> Do you find all 97-98 shows on youtube and dailymotion (i 've already found a lot of them) or is there another magical place to be? Thanks in advance


Go to watchwrestling. It has the entire Attitude Era available with every Raw & SD and PPV. Some of them are expired but I tend to find them on YT/DM.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Perfect! Now I don't have to download all that shitty stuff. Thanks Cal. (Y)


Include the Booker match. Judge for yourself because we all know CAL hates on everything Booker.  I disliked Booker's matches that year and I liked the Taker match to a decent extent.

How is the Orton pack going? It went fast for me for about an hour and DLed 2 gigs but now it's dead again.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Go to watchwrestling. It has the entire Attitude Era available with every Raw & SD and PPV. Some of them are expired but I tend to find them on YT/DM.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's been stuck at about 50-60% for a day straight. It'll shoot up in speed for a couple minutes and then go completely dead. Probably from the ridiculous amount of people that are trying to download all 100 gigs.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just a week away from WCW Superbrawl VII. Just watched the Nitro the week before, included a Piper promo from Alcatraz lol (Have upped it to DM, but the encoding is taking the piss).

Oh, and Regal lost the damn TV Title to............Prince Ikea or whatever his name was, robbing us of a possible Mysterio/Regal PPV match. 

I did like this video they did to write the Stenier's off the PPV:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Edit-I'm an idiot and mixed up Slamboree with SuperBrawl for the 184747372th time in my life. Sorry about that Zeppers.

Just wait til you get to Slamboree 1997, you'll love it


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Backlash '08 has been a chore so far. stopped and started watching Impractical Jokers for a while. ~___~

Pisses me off that apparently Miz/Morrison vs Wang Yang/Moore was a dark match for this show. I loved their feud.

Also ended up getting my haircut and the girl that cut my hair looked like Paige.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watching NYR 06. Pretty good so far mostly. Dreading the main event though. God I fucking hate this chamber match :lmao.

Show/HHH up next though :mark:.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That chamber match disappointed the shit out of me. Except for the parts with Angle going nuts.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I seem to remember Angle coming in, going crazy... then like, being the first person eliminated :lmao. Totally killed the match tbh.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

:lmao Yeah, it's out of nowhere and way too early. WWE had to knock him down a peg before shipping him off to Smackdown. :side:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Roddy Piper at Alcatraz Promo (WCW Monday Nitro 02.17.1997)*

x24jekw

Finally encoded.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

4 matches have been revealed for the _John Cena: Greatest Rivalries_ dvd. Looks good so far in terms of quality, but I really fucking wish they would pay attention to what matches have been released and which ones haven't. 

*Number One Contender’s Tournament Match for the WWE Championship*
John Cena vs. Eddie Guerrero
_SmackDown • April 3, 2003_ 

*WWE Championship Match *
John Cena vs. Triple H
_WrestleMania 22 • April 2, 2006_

John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels
_Raw • April 23, 2007 _

John Cena vs. CM Punk
_Raw • November 23, 2009_

Never seen the Eddie match, so that's a plus. The Michaels & Punk matches have already been released (Heartbreak & Triumph and RAW 2009) but both are really good obviously. Really wish they would've went with Cena/Punk from RAW after Summerslam 2011 though. Will that match EVER be released?


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Do you guys still buy DVDs?


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I still do. It's good to own something I could watch anytime in good quality.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Do you guys still buy DVDs?


I haven't since I got the network but that's because nothing has came out that I'd want to own. Will probably snag the Greatest Factions blu ray sometime though. Most of the stuff on there isn't available on the network.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

ATF said:


> Today I have really not much to do at all, so I'm going to burst through my 2013 TV-match-only card that I busted out a few pages ago. Here's it for those who are interested:
> 
> 
> 
> Already saw Neville/Zayn and Barrett/Sheamus (the latter was the Main Event MOTY for 2013 imo, just clobbering and nastyness at its finest), on my way to watch Eve/Kaitlyn which I remember being way better than expected.


As much as I love Bryan, I'm not sure I wouldn't have his Rollins match instead. The gauntlet is a one match-up showcase (v. Cesaro) and that Rollins Raw match was money. Fine picks either way I guess Up next: Best of Free TV 2013: DBryan Edition


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Bryan/Cesaro > Bryan/Rollins. Don't think either of them were that great though. I'd take Bryan/Ryback over both quite easily and if I had to pick one Bryan TV match from 2013 it would be the December bout with Orton.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I know I wouldn't. For my money, not only is Bryan/Cesaro alone superior, the Gauntlet itself in its entirety is FAR superior (asides from the Cesaro match, the Swagger round is class for 5 minutes and Ryback's was pretty damn solid as well) and it also lets me use 3 money players from that year (Swagger, Cesaro and Ryback) on one go. Bryan/Rollins is excellent of course, but it's inferior to both Bryan/Cesaro alone and especially the entire Gauntlet, and the usage of Rollins in that match would've destroyed any chances of the Shield making it to the list, given how every major Shield match without Bryan in it (which in 2013 TV was very few and far inbetween tbh) had Rollins (and Reigns) in it.

Agreed that Orton/Bryan from December was better than all of these though. And stupid me. I could've busted out Orton/Bryan instead of the Gauntlet and that would've allowed for using Cesaro/Zayn 2 out of 3 falls in the card. DAMMIT .


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Just been browsing through this thread, really surprised to see Unforgiven 2006 get some negative reviews. One of my favourite shows that is, though there is an element of nostalgia in me liking it so much as it was the first PPV I had watched in a while after I took a break from WWE. I have watched it quite a few times though not recently but I would definitely put **** on the HIAC and TLC matches! I remember liking the Orton/Carlito match too for the RKO out of nowhere finish. Trish/Lita was great and I thought the first three matches fairly decent too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ill praise Orton/Bryan (Dec '13) forever. Loved that match from the very first watch, i need to see their Feb match from this year, as i don't really remember it TBH.

Bit random but, Diamond Cutter > RKO.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Kanyon Cutter >>>> both.

OUTTA NOWHERE! BANG!!!

EDIT: Forgot to say this, but Hitman, the February 2014 Orton/Bryan may not be the December 13 one (it's actually quite far imo), but I gave it **** and I don't regret it. DAT. LIMB. WORK. DEM. ORTON. FACIALS. DAT. ENDING.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

The Swagger bit was a nice amuse-boush to the greatness that is the Cesaro/Bryan section, it's true. The Ryback part always pissed me off b/c of Ryback's shit powerbomb. Would've preferred it as either 1v2 or just Cesaro, but faces need those odds stacked. 

Orton/Bryan in December was my favorite of the six(?) they've done. Hot crowd, showing chemistry, knee-bite~!, perfect crescendo into the low blow :mark:



The Fab Four said:


> Bit random but, Diamond Cutter > RKO.


As a kid that grew up watching WCW, Ace Crusher > Diamond Cutter


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The two great Orton/Bryan matches (Dec 2013 and Feb 2014) are easily two of Randy's best performances and matches since like 2006.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

JustJoel said:


> As a kid that grew up watching WCW, Ace Crusher > Diamond Cutter







:


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Is Unforgiven '07 as bad as it looks?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

If anyone wants:

All 15 WWE PPV's from 2005 (Box set)
The Undertaker Streak Set
MitB 2011
Payback 2013 (Blu Ray)
Summerslam Box Set (1998-2002)
Satans Prison Set (All EC matches from 2002-2011)
WrestleMania 29 3 disc set 

On DVD for dirt cheap shoot me a PM and make an offer. Moving in with the girlfriend and I need to clear out some space to make room for her shitty DVDs. Kill me now.


I just watched Arn/Zybysko vs Dustin/Steamboat COTC for the first time in ages, and man this has gotta be one of my top 10 favorite 2 on 2 tags of all time. Steamboats surprise entrance was just electric, both Dustin AND Steamboat were great in it, but man Arn Anderson as always stole the show for me. That would be a fun vote, who is the all time best tag team wrestler from the US: Eaton or Arn? Tough call, but I think I'd have to go with Arn purely from a personal preference standpoint. No one is better at shining up a baby face while still remaining a credible ass kicker than the Enforcer. What he does truly seems to be a lost art.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

ArnoldTricky said:


> Is Unforgiven '07 as bad as it looks?


Absofuckinglutely. Only second to SummerSlam as the worst PPV of 2007. And 2007 had some BAAAAD shows, so I'm know what I'm saying.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

For Orton vs Bryan matches, I honestly prefer their February match to December. The latter is still phenomenal but there was something about the former that I _really really_ loved. Match goes about 30 minutes and is a blast for its entirety with excellent limb work by both.

That comparison video zep posted was cool. Never knew Orton gave Goldberg the RKO. Now he needs to give Lesnar the RKO.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I just watched Arn/Zybysko vs Dustin/Steamboat COTC for the first time in ages, and man this has gotta be one of my top 10 favorite 2 on 2 tags of all time. Steamboats surprise entrance was just electric, both Dustin AND Steamboat were great in it, but man Arn Anderson as always stole the show for me. That would be a fun vote, who is the all time best tag team wrestler from the US: Eaton or Arn? Tough call, but I think I'd have to go with Arn purely from a personal preference standpoint. No one is better at shining up a baby face while still remaining a credible ass kicker than the Enforcer. What he does truly seems to be a lost art.


Speaking of Clash Of The Champions, something i've been wanting to do for a while now is to make 'Best Of' list, maybe even make it into a custom comp too.

May start to make a list when i have time, create a thread, and of course, ask in here for help. 

Still need to see that tag in full, ill get around to it when i start watching some Dangerous Alliance stuff.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> Absofuckinglutely. Only second to SummerSlam as the worst PPV of 2007. And 2007 had some BAAAAD shows, so I'm know what I'm saying.


(Y) 

Back on the shelf it goes.


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

ArnoldTricky said:


> Is Unforgiven '07 as bad as it looks?


Absolutely. It's one of the worst shows I've ever seen. I didn't like how they built the show around Undertaker's return and they close the show out with a very lackluster match against Mark Henry. Orton/Cena is disappointingly terrible. It was just there to advance their feud, but the match still sucks. The rest is forgettable, but I remember Cade and Murdoch vs. London and Kendrick being good, but not exactly anything that's worth going out of your way to check out.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Catching up on last week's Raw. So much goodness in that Henry/Show v Harper/Rowan tag. I would have absolutely no problem with them running that match-up a few times like they always seem to do with their TV matches. Big burly clobbering goodness from bell to bell. Everybody likes Mark Henry and Big Show at this point right? Fuck you if you don't. Not really but everyone seriously should.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Want to know about two matches that sound AWFUL on paper but in reality are quite good? Chavo vs Helms and Vito vs Reno from WCW SIN 2001. Chavo/Helms is a nice back and forth Cruiserweight bout, and Reno/Vito is two big son of a bitches slamming and beating on each other. Good stuff, definitely good stuff.


Ha, I'm the other way. Chavo v. Helms on paper sounds really good on paper to me but I thought their 01 matches were kind boring.

Actually this is an opportune time to plug this match that IDK if I've plugged on here before - how many here have seen Rey/Chavo from SuperBrawl 2001? It's fucking great.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> Catching up on last week's Raw. So much goodness in that Henry/Show v Harper/Rowan tag. I would have absolutely no problem with them running that match-up a few times like they always seem to do with their TV matches. Big burly clobbering goodness from bell to bell. Everybody likes Mark Henry and Big Show at this point right? Fuck you if you don't. Not really but everyone seriously should.



If someone is some how NOT in favor of Show and Henry tagging, I urge you to please post your thoughts because for the life of me I can't find one single negative aspect about it. Henry said on Cheap Heat that it was his and Show's idea too. They were sitting on the bus when Henry mentioned he had never been a tag team champ. Show just looked at him and said "well shit let's get it done then!" And that's how my current favorite team was born 

I'd love to see Show/Henry vs The Brothers Dust. That would be rather amazing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Backlash '08 has been a chore so far. stopped and started watching Impractical Jokers for a while. ~___~
> 
> Pisses me off that apparently Miz/Morrison vs Wang Yang/Moore was a dark match for this show. I loved their feud.
> 
> Also ended up getting my haircut and the girl that cut my hair looked like Paige.


Yep, quite the downer of a PPV. Except I like the Giants match.

and I'm going to Boston to get my haircut. aige



Jack Evans 187 said:


> 4 matches have been revealed for the _John Cena: Greatest Rivalries_ dvd. Looks good so far in terms of quality, but I really fucking wish they would pay attention to what matches have been released and which ones haven't.
> 
> *Number One Contender’s Tournament Match for the WWE Championship*
> John Cena vs. Eddie Guerrero
> ...


That's why they released PPVs on DVD, bro. :hayley2



Saint Dick said:


> The two great Orton/Bryan matches (Dec 2013 and Feb 2014) are easily two of Randy's best performances and matches since like 2006.


(Y)



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Want to know about two matches that sound AWFUL on paper but in reality are quite good? Chavo vs Helms and Vito vs Reno from WCW SIN 2001. Chavo/Helms is a nice back and forth Cruiserweight bout, and Reno/Vito is two big son of a bitches slamming and beating on each other. Good stuff, definitely good stuff.


I'm not so sure why Chavo vs Helms looks awful on paper but nonetheless this post fills me w/JOY. b/c Helms vs Chavo is good but RENO VS VITO RULES. That's the real selling point. I love that PPV. It was a lot of fun. I'm telling people, WCW got better in the end. Perfect? No. Better than stuff when Russo was around & even in 99 prior to Russo? Yes. Vito & Reno clobber the bejesus out of each other and I am going :mark:

You know who was fun in the end of WCW? The Cat. Seriously. Babyface and being a goofball w/power worked for me. And he was so over too. Awesome. It feels like everything he did while babyface worked, while everything as a heel was avoidable.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm all for Wight Chocolate, although I'm not sure how much they'll be doing in the near future with Henry's feud with Rusev starting (which I'm also all for )


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Actually this is an opportune time to plug this match that IDK if I've plugged on here before - how many here have seen Rey/Chavo from SuperBrawl 2001? It's fucking great.


oh hey :hayley3



Saint Dick said:


> Catching up on last week's Raw. So much goodness in that Henry/Show v Harper/Rowan tag. I would have absolutely no problem with them running that match-up a few times like they always seem to do with their TV matches. Big burly clobbering goodness from bell to bell. Everybody likes Mark Henry and Big Show at this point right? Fuck you if you don't. Not really but everyone seriously should.


Henry seems to be fine, but WWE sections still like to hate Big Show for "always ruining everything". Trying to figure out the last thing he hurt & not actually made better or tolerable b/c of his presence. I can't conjure up an answer. And people w/the shitstorm that Wyatts are being buried. If they watched Smackdown, they'll realize the losses were apparently key to something new to transpire. Beatdown of the Dust Bros is probably going to give them their dominate edge back & another shot at tag championship in the future.



PGSucks said:


> I'm all for Wight Chocolate, although I'm not sure how much they'll be doing in the near future with Henry's feud with Rusev starting (which I'm also all for )


Wight Chocolate. Unbelievable.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Yep, quite the downer of a PPV. Except I like the Giants match.
> 
> and I'm going to Boston to get my haircut. aige
> 
> ...


I cosign everything you said about the Cat. I'm almost finished with Sin and he's been the most over baby face the entire show. He's just a ball of fire with some mean looking strikes with just enough, not too much, goofiness.

I guess Chavo/Helms isn't such a bad sounding match on paper, but I had absolutely NO clue who Vito or Reno were going into their match. I almost made a fatal, crucial mistake by skipping the match altogether. Thank god I didn't, because those two had a SUPREMELY excellent big man contest. Whatever happened to these two brutes? I'm not kidding nor exaggerating when I say they had a not good, but GREAT match. Tons and heaps and gobs of physicality with a surprising bit of athleticism and excellent transitions and timing, that bout has gotta the biggest shocker ever. Thinking you're about to witness two talentless, muscle bound hacks wrestle like two hippos arguing over a water hole and instead being treated to greatness was just a delight.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Reno, idk. Oddly enough he kind of vanished in WCW after that match too. Vito was Vito from WWE. Aka the guy who was w/Nunzio for a bit & then was made to wear a dress on TV. Yikes. So, that was pretty much the pinnacle for both, but at least it was a super rad match & one to always remember in the closing days of WCW.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I like Big Show, but you're lying when you say that you can't conjure up an idea on what the last thing he hurt was. Stop it. Every Big Show fan should acknowledge that his main event push last year was detrimental.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Show being booked over Danielson for a spell b/c the bookers were morons who had zero clue in what to do w/their Authority angle doesn't reflect negatively on Show at all. Only WWE. It was like the Punk situation all over again. Completely ruined what would have been a great angle. Luckily for both they just canned all ideas and went in the proper direction they should have.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Finally saw Ambrose/Rollins FCA. Really fucking good and a step up from the lumberjack match which I enjoyed in its own right. I usually hate when wrestlers throw a shitload of chairs into the ring because they almost always end up using one at a time and it just seems stupid but they found a way to do that and make it both cool and logical. Powerbomb spot was awesome. The finish was fucking awesome too. Kane's interference kept Ambrose looking strong and Rollins won in such a brutal fashion that he still looked like a killer even though he had help. Not quite a MOTYC for me and Cena/Cesaro has it trumped for TV MOTY but great stuff nonetheless. Better than everything on the SummerSlam card except Cena/Lesnar.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> That's why they released PPVs on DVD, bro. :hayley2
> .


Did you think I meant their match from Summerslam? I'm a little confused by the response.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rusev/Swagger IV :homer


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Rusev vs Swagger from this week's RAW was sweet


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Did you think I meant their match from Summerslam? I'm a little confused by the response.


You can tell I didn't notice the word _after_ was in that post, huh? You mean their rockin match from Canada. Ok, I'm on board w/you. I got that on DVD but the quality is iffy, so I needs it on a set too.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

God dammit! A couple friends convinced me to hang out with them instead of watching RAW and they give us another Swagger/Rusev??? And jt was great??? Fuuuuuck


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

God bless the WWE production team for that Lesnar video. The man has no understanding whatsoever on vocal tone and inflection, but with that menacing music and images of him kicking Cena's ass, that deficiency can be hidden.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

oh Bray :lol


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

There's a match between Eaton and Savage where Eaton just decides to wrestle like Flair. He knocked it out of the park. 4/15/96.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

The thing with Big Show's 2013 main event push is fans at the events wanted to see him kill HHH. Instead, they said fuck that and tried feeding him to Orton which is why it failed.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah they totally missed the bucket with the Big Show storyline. He completely ruined the ending to the Battleground ppv, but luckily redeemed himself in the Tag Title match from RAW where Cody & Goldie wins the belts. We REALLY should've gotten Big Show vs. Triple H at Hell in a Cell or Survivor Seriesthough . HIAC could've been non-sanctioned but Survivor Series would've suited it better. They could've just went ahead and unified the belts at SSeries with Del Rio getting his rematch against Cena on RAW.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Up to Capital Combat. Road Warriors opener was fucking great sprint against Bam Bam Bigelow and Catcus Jack. I love the Road Warriors when they're athletic monsters. Catcus Jack taking the sick bumps he's known for. No wonder he can barely walk.

LOVE the Warriors though.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Missed Raw but won big in poker. :hb

Looking at the results I'll need to watch Rusev/Swagger and probably the Stardust/Goldust stuff. Main event sounded meh and nothing else really interested me much.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lazyking said:


> Up to Capital Combat. Road Warriors opener was fucking great sprint against Bam Bam Bigelow and Catcus Jack. I love the Road Warriors when they're athletic monsters. Catcus Jack taking the sick bumps he's known for. No wonder he can barely walk.
> 
> LOVE the Warriors though.


MEAN Mark vs Johnny Ace is quality stuff too. And you know Midnight Express steal the show like usual. :mark: _(Robocop getting a "great reaction" almost did...)_

I'd recommend skipping the Samoan Swat Team tag. It was a five minute squash match extended to 17 minutes. Not fun.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Before my underwhelming Backlash review, two things.

1. Looks like Ryback is leaving for a bit. :sad

2. I want a Sheamus/Bray feud. I know Bray has lost his luster but I want those two beating the hell out of each other in the ring.

---------------------------------------------------------

Backlash 2008
Matt Hardy vs MVP - *1/2 (.5)
Chavo Guerrero vs Kane - *1/2 (.5)
Big Show vs The Great Khali - *** (2)
Shawn Michaels vs Batista - **3/4 (1)
fucking 64 diva tag match or something - NO (-1)
Undertaker vs Edge - ***1/2 (3)
Randy Orton vs JBL vs Triple H vs John Cena - **3/4 (1)

Total: 7

- MVP/Hardy was underwhelming as fuck. Especially for a feud that was actually built up for a while. I couldn't get into this literally at all. I was a big fan of Hardy's work around this time too.

- Kane/Chavo was literally just there. Nothing to really care about. Most entertaining part of the match was remembering that Bam Neely existed.

- Show/Khali was fun. Nothing real special but one of Khali's better matches for sure.

- HBK/Batista was odd. I didn't really like it but it wasn't awful. The ending with the 'injury' or whatever was interesting. I don't actually remember what came of that.

- Edge/Taker was solid, not best match in the series nor weakest.

- Main event didn't really flow well for me. JBL/Cena part seemed kind of out of place and the pacing when it was just Orton/Trips didn't quite work. It had some entertaining moments but I didn't really care for it.

2008:
Wrestlemania - 31.5
No Way Out - 20
Royal Rumble - 8
Backlash - 7

Despite being close, I enjoyed the Rumble far more than I did this abomination. And I'm pretty sure I enjoyed every other Backlash ever. Don't quote me on that though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Michaels faked injury would be the lead in to the program w/Jericho where he would go heel & begin the Best in the World at What I Do bit.

Neat to see you dug the giants rumble. MOTN for me too. I was cool w/Kane vs Chavo too. Rest, yeah, low, low thoughts. _(I do always give credit to Taker in his match; b/c he deserved it)_ Opener & main event are pond scum.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The opener blew my mind. They actually had a pretty fiery feud if I recall and the match was boring as shit. I couldn't believe when I looked up the time and it wasn't pushing 20 minutes. It felt way longer than it was.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MVP busts up Matt Hardy's knee & takes him out for some months. Hardy costs MVP a win in MITB. They have a match and not only is hate lacking in furious nature but in the nature of their strong willed competitive rivalry. It was standard MVP tripe where he tried a bunch of holds w/nothing sticking; constantly appearing lost and Matt honestly had nothing about his work to help soften the blow either. A weak convergence to finalize their long winded rivalry. Rematch on Smackdown following the PPV is just as bad. And a little bit longer too. Which compounds the boredom furthermore.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

They should have just capped it off with another pie eating contest/pick up basketball game/push up contest segment.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Badminton to settle the score like true men.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So Raw was mainly blargh, but had some highlights, like Cody and Goldust turning heel :mark: and Show/Henry still being a team :mark:.

Off to finish watching NYR 06. Got to the main event last night and... decided going to bed was the better option .

[SHAMELESS PLUG]Oh hey BLOG~! stuff! Added my 2003 End of Year Thoughts, and posted a list of some game series I want to see return over on my other blog . [/SHAMELESS PLUG]


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Oh man, Goldust is a heel?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> Oh man, Goldust is a heel?


Yup, seems so. BUT is does mean we could potentially get Goldust/Cody Vs Show/Henry . Heel or face, that makes my dangly bits tingle.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Is it sad and embarassing if I said that the one person who impressed me the most on Raw was Nikki Bella? She actually had a somewhat interesting promo out there, and the segment was kinda uncomfortable to watch. Both on the "so bad I'm cringing" way and on what Nikki was actually saying to Brie way (like saying she wished she died in the womb - despite the terrible delievery of that line).

Other than Nikki though, I liked Swagger/Rusev IV as expected, I'm not sure if I liked Goldust & Cody turning heel but fuck it, didn't really enjoy anything else that much if at all. Cena pretending to be Lesnar would've worked on someone else who isn't already down the sewers enough like Bray fucking is.

EDIT: Nevermind the Nikki thing, I forgot about Heyman and BORK LASER. And yes, BORK LASER won Raw w/another badass sitdown interview. I still don't think Nikki was bad though..... despite her AWFUL delievery. She could've been worse.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*New Years Revolution 2006*

Another Raw PPV from 06, and again I have to take the wrapping off .


*Ric Flair Vs Edge - WWE Intercontinental Championship Match*

Edge jumps Flair from behind because let's face it, even at his age, Flair > Edge, so Edge needs all the advantages he can get.

Lita looks FAPING HOT.

:mark: Flair chases Lita and Lita runs and BOUNCES :mark:.

PUNCHES TO THE FACE~! Man, what a tough guy Edge is, beating up an old man.

They keep changing the camera to point at Lita :mark:.

How is the reverse Atomic Drop legal? They smash their opponent balls first onto their knee. Oh well, it's only Edge's balls. Ha, Flair follows it up by dropping Edge balls first onto the barricade. FLAIR IS WORKING THE BALLS OF EDGE~!

THUMB TO EDGE'S EYE~!

THUM TO LITA#S EYE~! Bet that isn't the first time a guy has got something in Lita's eye .

FLAIR SUCCESSFULLY COMES OFF THE TOP ROPE~!

LEG WORK SETTING UP TO THE FIGURE FOUR~!










Figure Four to Lita .

MONEY IN THE BANK BRIEFCASE TO FLAIR'S SKULL~! Flair deserved it tbh...

:lmao Flair is bleeding of course.

So, Edge loses by DQ. Flair retains his title. It's almost like Edge didn't care about winning. Hmmm... I wonder why...

Match has some fun moments, nothing more.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - DUD*


:lmao GOAT promo by Angle. Says he hopes the US loses the war in Iraq. Loves France. Hates black people. Wants to make Jesus tap out. Then goes on to say it doesn't matter what he says, the people will cheer him anyway because he's the greatest wrestler in the world.


*Trish Stratus Vs Mickie James - WWE Women's Championship Match*

:mark: one of my favourite women's matches! And part of one of my favourite women's angles! TRISH. MICKIE. LESBIAN~!










LITA in the first match and now TRISH AND MICKIE LESBIAN ANGLE in the second match? GOAT PPV RIGHT HERE~!

I miss Mickie and those mini-skirts.

Lol, any time Mickie counters Trish or gets the better of her in an exchange, she looks like the happiest person in the world :lmao.

:lmao Mickie escapes a headlock by grabbing Trish's BOOB~!

Some good wrestling from these two women, showing they are more than just smoking hot babes . Also some tremendous character work from Mickie, and Trish's reactions to it all are great. Mickie isn't full on psycho like she would be at WM, but she's great at adding in bits here without going full on.

Fuck me, that was one hell of a punch exchange! They clobbered each other!

BICYCLE KICK~! Trish fucking DECKED Mickie with that!!!

Mickie decides to grab the women's championship belt and seems to be thinking about using it or not. In the end she decides against it because she LOVES Trish or something .

Meanwhile Trish seems to be having a great time beating the absolute piss out of Mickie. NOBODY MAKES LESBIAN MOVES ON TRISH AND GETS AWAY WITH IT!

SPINEBUSTER~!

KICK TO THE FACE~!

Mickie with Stratusfaction! But she savours the moment too long and Trish is able to kick out. Continuing to work her character into the match with how happy she looked that she was able to get the better of Trish. Then when Trish kicks out, Mickie shows signs of PSYCHO MICKIE.

CHICK KICK~! Trish manages to pick up the win in this extremely hard fought and fucking GREAT women's match! Used to consider this better than their WM match. These days they are on the same level with STARS and shit, but I prefer the WM one over this ever so slightly. Still, it doesn't get much better than this for women's matches in WWE!

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


Maria is interviewing herself :lmao. Helms shows up. Then Shelton Benjamin arrives at the arena with his MOMMA despite the fact he doesn't have a match. His MOMMA is here to make sure he DOES have a match!


Edge leaves LITA alone to do that WWE Instant Access thing they used to do (interviews on wwe.com after matches) because he has bigger things to deal with. Wonder what that could be...


*Jerry Lawler Vs Gregory Helms*

Almost skipped this match, thinking it was awful, then I remembered I was thinking of LAST YEAR'S NYR PPV when Lawler had a stinker with Hassan .

So Helms is no longer THE HURRICANE and wants to be a more serious wrestler and DEMANDS respect. Lawler ain't giving it to him so Helms had to beat it out of him.

SLAP TO LAWLER~! So Lawler responds with PUNCHES TO THE FACE~! :mark:

I could watch Lawler punch people all damn day.

LAWLER WITH THE HURRICANE POSE~! Lol, might have had more of an impact had I not watched GAB recently with Matt Hardy doing the exact same thing .

Like the GAB match with Hardy, that Hurricane pose angers Helms and forces him to up his game and finally gain control of the match.

Helms is a good cocky heel here as he works over Lawler and even blocks an attempted counter, where Lawler tries to get his boot up to catch Helms coming off the ropes. Then when he sends Lawler into the ring post, he gets a headset and starts doing commentary! Helms > The Rock 8*D.

DOWN COMES THE STRAP~! LAWLER COMEBACK~! :mark:

Fuck me, HUGE pop when Lawler teases a Piledriver!!!

TOP ROPE FIST DROP~! LAWLER WINS! LAWLER WINS!!!

Actually a little baffled at the result of the match lol, but oh well . Good stuff. Helms was good during his work over period, and Lawler making a comeback is always great.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


LITA, TRISH AND MICKIE ALL TOGETHER BACKSTAGE FAP FAP FAP. HOT SWEATY BODIES~!


Aaaand then we switch over to Shelton's MOMMA :lmao. She bends over, and Viscera makes a move :lmao.


*Triple H Vs The Big Show*

:mark: I'M EXCITED FOR A TRIPLE H MATCH!!!

So after what HHH did to Flair over the last few months, Big Show decides to do something about it. 2 months later :lmao. HHH smashes Show's hand with a sledgehammer, but all it does is give Big Show a WEAPON as now he's a 7 foot, 500lb giant with a hard CAST on his hand!!!

Dayum, Lillian looking FINE tonight! Even Joey Styles mentions it lol.

This is one of the reasons I LOVE wrestling. Why I have been watching it for over 20 years. Why no matter how bad the product gets, I'll still go out of my way to watch certain people and certain matches. Show has a cast on his hand. And the entire match is worked around it. You have the tease and build up to Show using it as a weapon. HHH avoiding it. HHH trying to neutralise it. It's the most simple form of storytelling, but when done right, it's beautiful. It's ART. Even guys I don't always tend to like can still make me absolutely :mark: at a match when they do the simple stuff right. I don't always care for HHH, but in the right situation against the right opponent, he can really work a match to perfection.

So early on, Show is just DOMINATING with nothing more than his POWER. HHH will occasionally hit the giant, but his shots are rendered useless, so he has to use his head and find openings anywhere he can.

BIG SHOW PUNCHES THE RING POST~! He swung his cast covered arm at HHH, but missed and instead his broken hand collided with the metal ring post, and even the cast isn't enough to stop the pain. And THAT is the moment HHH was looking for!

HHH RIPS THE CAST OFF~! Now the weapon has been taken away from Big Show, and his broken hand is exposed! A smart wrestler would waste no time going after that injured hand, and HHH is definitely a smart wrestler!!!

I love when someone works over a body part, and does it well. Even better if it's something more unusual. Everyone does the leg or the shoulder, occasionally the back, but when someone targets a smaller part like the hand, it's usually pretty awesome.

Big Show goes for a chokeslam, but his broken hand won't allow him!

REF BUMP~!

HHH BRINGS OUT THE SLEDGEHAMMER~!

BIG SHOW BREAKS THE SLEDGEHAMMER WITH A BROKEN FREAKIN' HAND~!

THE GIANT IS UNSTOPPABLE~!

Big Show does a great job adapting his offense so he uses his broken hand as little as possible. And when he DOES use it he shows the effects of the injury, be it selling afterwards or simply not being able to do what he wanted.

STEEL CHAIR TO THE BROKEN HAND~! Well, his sledgehammer is broken so he might as well use the chair!

HHH comes at Show again with the chair and Show just fucking LAUNCHES himself at the game with a Spear!!! :mark:

Show tries a left handed chokeslam and... BROKEN SLEDGEHAMMER TO THE FACE~!

PEDIGREE~!

This one is OVER!

This. Fucking. Rules.

*Rating: ****1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 6*


Carlito makes Masters an offer he can't refuse. Take out the other Elimination Chamber participants, then they can fight each other to see who becomes the new WWE Champion.


*Shelton Benjamin Vs Viscera*

Shelton's MOMMA challenges Visera to a match with Shelton!

Shelton might be the superior athelete, but Viscera's sheer size is too much for him to handle early on!

And time for some controversy... I was a big fan of the Shelton's MOMMA angle! She was awesome on the outside cheering her "son" on and was always entertaining in backstage segments etc.

In typical "big man vs little man" fashion, Shelton targets the legs of his bigger opponent and is able to gain control. Shelton's MOMMA is awesome on the outside shouting at Benjamin to break the leg of Viscera :lmao.

:lmao Shelton starts getting on the losing end of things, and his MOMMA stars shouting "DO I NEED TO GET THE BELT? GET UP! GET YO ASS UP!!!" and Shelton KEEPS GETTING UP :lmao. Now THAT is motivation!

BLACK HOLE SLAM BY VISCERA~! That move has a whole new meaning coming from him :side:.

VISAGRA~! "YOU GET OFF MY BOY!!!" :lmao

MISSED SPLASH~!

SHELTON'S MOMMA SMASHES VISCERA IN THE HEAD WITH HER HANDBAG~! KICK FROM SHELTON~! THIS ONE IS OVER!!!

Fun match!

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


HBK is confronted by Vinnie Mac, who wishes Shawn good luck! Obviously he doesn't mean it because these two are feuding... or about to start feuding? I forget.


*Maria Vs Ashley Vs Candice Michelle Vs Victoria Vs Torrie Wilson - Bra and Panties Gauntlet Match*

Fap.

No.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


Shelton's MOMMA reveals she had a BRICK in her handbag! Because you never know when you might need a brick. There was this one time, I needed a brick, but I didn't have one.


*John Cena Vs Shawn Michaels Vs Kurt Angle Vs Kane Vs Chris Masters Vs Carlito - WWE Championship Elimination Chamber Match*

Urgh. I hate this match. But it's a main event for the title so I'll suffer through it.

Lol, Kane talking smack to Carlito while both are locked inside their pods.

So we start off with Cena Vs HBK, which I guess is a good thing. Over a year later they'd have a pretty darn good WM main event and have had a few great matches following that too.

Cena just elbowed Shawn RIGHT IN THE FUCKING FACE. TWICE. First one looked brutal. So how does HBK respond? With a bitch slap :lmao. Then Cena PUNCHES Shawn in the face. LOL Shawn's a pussy .

Bah, the two of them don't really do anything worth writing about. Speaking of not doing anything worth writing about; Carlito is the next guy in. Fans pop for him though because he attacks Cena. Hitler would probably get cheered over Cena in the chamber :side:.

*puts some chicken dippers in the oven*

Angle is next out and he just runs into the match and fucking MURDERS everyone. SIX GERMAN SUPLEXES~! OVERHEAD BELLY TO BELLY TO HBK OVER THE ROPES TO THE STEEL~! GERMAN SUPLEX TO CARLITO OVER THE ROPES TO THE STEEL~!

Love him or hate him, Angle coming in and mauling everyone like that in a match like this is pretty darn sweet. Easily the most entertaining part of this match so far!

HBK IS BLEEDING~!

ANGLE IS DOMINATING~!

ANKLE LOCK ON CARLITO~!

MASTERS IS THE NEXT GUY OUT AND SAVES CARLITO~!

MASTERS IS DOMINATING~!

ANKLE LOCK ON MASTERS~!

NOBODY OUTSHINES ANGLE~!

ANKLE LOCK ON CENA~!

SUPERKICK TO ANGLE~!

Aaaaaand there goes the only fun part of this match .

Carlito and 2006 Chris Masters are in this match and KURT ANGLE is the first to be eliminated. Bullshit tbh.

Wonder how those dippers are coming along... damn, 6 minutes left .

Stuff happens. Kane is out last.

Yey dippers are ready .

Carlito and Masters double team Kane enough to eliminate him.

Mmmmm chicken dippers rule!

HBK gets eliminated by Carlito :lmao.

Damn, ate all my dippers .

DDT TO CENA ON THE STEEL~! Guess he's gunna pop back up and win the match now, if SummerSlam 2010 is anything to go by :side:.

Carlito tells Masters to put Cena in the Masterlock and be the one to eliminate the champ! And Carlito turns on him and pins him. Because he's a retard. The moment he pins Masters, Cena pins him :lmao. Dumbshit.

This is booooring as fuck. Angle is the only entertaining thing and he was eliminated first.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


VINCE MCMAHON'S MUSIC!!! THE NIGHT IS NOT OVER!!! WHAT'S GOING ON!?!?!


*John Cena Vs Edge - WWE Championship Match*

EDGE IS CASHING IN HIS MONEY IN THE BANK!!! I guess THIS is the important thing he was talking about earlier . Either that or he had to pick up some new lingerie for Lita .

Cena is battered and bleeding, while Edge is fresh!

SPEAR~!

Cena kicks out :lmao.

SPEAR~!

EDGE WINS!

What a moment. Not because Edge won the WWE Title, but because Cena LOST the WWE Title!

Then 2 weeks later they killed Edge's momentum completely :lmao.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 11*​


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

DAT HHH/Show match. Never have I marked out so much w/something Big Show made than when he broke the fucking sledgehammer w/his broken freakin' hand. Fucking awesome match right there.

If I were to guess, you move on to Judgment Day next right? Because JUDGMENT DAY '06 :mark::mark::mark:.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Thinking of getting SummerSlam out of the way next actually.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Steven Regal vs Rey Mysterio Jr. (WCW Monday Nitro 02.10.1997)*



Nice little match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

^Awesome.

Big Show vs Triple H :mark:

soooo gonna watch that tomorrow. For the moment & b/c I don't care to think, it may be my favorite Triple H match. Crap, I'm thinking. Stuff vs Foley & Flair came up. Don't care. Great match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> Thinking of getting SummerSlam out of the way next actually.


It's not a bad show, you don't need to worry. Foley/Flair, DX/McMahons and Edge/Cena will all be worth your while I'm sure 

Just make sure that you give Booker/Batista the biggest NO of all time. If you NO'ed the Booker/Benoit stuff, than you better give the Batista matches a HELLFUCKINGNO and a -2 rating.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Being a WHC match I won't be able to NO it, as much as I really want to . Same with Edge/Cena tbh. Never cared for their chemistry.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If you leave that match w/anything other than a DUD, we'll all be gobsmacked. You even hate Booker matches when they're not even bad. 8*D Do right by the world and hate it, Cal.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

What do people like about that Mickie/Trish match? Is this just another case of people liking women's wrestling because of disgustingly low standards? Because I'm tired of having to watch lauded Gail Kim matches that turn out to be trash.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Your own fault for believing anything from Gail Kim is any good unless vs Kong in late 07. _(b/c she stinks)_


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> Being a WHC match I won't be able to NO it, as much as I really want to . Same with Edge/Cena tbh. Never cared for their chemistry.


That's bullshit dude, what I've always heard was that only the Main Event is obligatory. Which btw Edge/Cena is a duo you don't care for but I guarantee you that the SS 2006 match is really good. It's about Edge's survival vs. Cena's revenge, and they do greatly. But back on topic, you mean to tell me that you're SERIOUSLY putting yourself through that piece of utter stinking dogshit? If you really are... dude, wish you luck.

And funnyfaces, MICKIE plays her part extremely well (not as well as WM but close), BOOBS, Trish's reactions fit in every minute, BOOBS, there's plenty of hard hitting action tbh, and BOOBS. That's why that match is a success.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

If you want to watch real women's wrestling, check out Mschif vs Awesome Kong or Toyoda vs Aja Kong bouts. They are the real deal Holyfield. Toyoda is the baddest chick ever.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> If you want to watch real women's wrestling, check out Mschif vs Awesome Kong or Toyoda vs Aja Kong bouts. They are the real deal Holyfield. Toyoda is the baddest chick ever.


Tomoko Watanabe & Kumiko Maekawa vs. Etsuko Mita & Mima Shimoda (AJW 6/18/97)
Bull Nakano vs. Shinobu Kandori (Chain Match) (LLPW 7/14/94)

Two matches i have recently watched. Brutal. That tag match features one helluva double foot stomp off the top of the cage.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

That chain match is horrendous IMO. Mschif vs Kong that Chris mentioned is amazing though.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

So The Miz was the highlight of the show? "RUN!" Oh, right - Swagger/Rusev happened too, and John Cena meaty facking LARIATS! Dang, when he wants to, John can unleash one. Poor Bray, you've become a Raw stepping stone. We hardly knew ye I don't like the Uso/Dust Bros. pairing, but glad we a turn so I don't have to suffer through it with both as faces.

Seriously though, Miz has got me - the stunt-double stuff was cherry. I've never enjoyed Miz's work so much, and I'm only a little embarrassed to admit it


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*WCW Superbrawl VII:*

*WCW Cruiserweight Champion Dean Malenko vs. Syxx* ***
*Juventud Guerrera, Ciclope & Super Calo vs. Konnan, La Parka & Villano IV* **1/2
*WCW World Television Champion Prince Iaukea vs. Rey Mysterio Jr.* **1/2
*Diamond Dallas Page vs. Buff Bagwell* **1/2
*WCW U.S. Champion Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Jericho* ***1/2
*Harlem Heat (w/Sister Sherri) vs. The Faces of Fear vs. Public Enemy* *1/2
*Steve McMichael (w/Debra) vs. Jeff Jarrett* *1/2
*Chris Benoit (w/Woman) vs. Kevin Sullivan (w/Jacqueline & Jimmy Hart)* – San Francisco Death Match *1/2
*WCW World Tag Team Champions Scott Hall & Kevin Nash (w/Syxx) vs. Lex Luger & The Giant* **
*WCW World Heavyweight Champion Hollywood Hogan (w/Ted DiBiase) vs. Roddy Piper* 1/2*

Opens up with Piper being released from Alcatraz: :lol

*WCW Superbrawl VII Opening Video*

x24lt6p

Liked the opener TBH, some good stuff. Finish is obviously leading to the Malenko/Eddie feud. Lucha was a bit of a car crash lol, but hey its entetaining so, even with Suoer Calo and Konnan.

Still pissed we didn't get Regal/Mysterio on PPV, instead they gace the title to Prince Ikea.

Benoit/Sullivan feud is never ending, i wish Jarrett would fuck off TBH, he won the match and finally became a Horseman, the whole angle was bad and confusing, where it seemed Jarrett was like the big elephant in the room all the time. Id rather it was Jaqueline vs Benoit lol. Can't fucking stand Sullivan and his 'foot stomp' finishing move.

Jericho/Eddy was ok, nothing bad, nothing great. Tag match was good at the end as the NWO got their comupance, which was nice. Nash's powerbomb of The Giant looked great.

Piper/Hogan was just as you would expect, non clean finish this time too. Oh well. Savage turning and joining the NWO could have been done better too, as the announcers didn't know what was going on either, and i was never a big fan of the 'Oh well, if you can't beat them, join them' deal with Savage, but i guess the story was he also wanted to be closer to Liz, which wasn't explained properly (WCW huh).


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Wait, Cody & Goldust turned heel last night? Well that's... different. We'll see how that goes. So I need to see Rusev/Swagger from RAW and that's it? Looked like Cena totally buried Wyatt.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> That's bullshit dude, what I've always heard was that only the Main Event is obligatory.


Huh? Heard? From who? About what exactly? I R CONFUZLED~!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Wait, Cody & Goldust turned heel last night? Well that's... different. We'll see how that goes. So I need to see Rusev/Swagger from RAW and that's it? Looked like Cena totally buried Wyatt.


And the eulogy of Dean Ambrose.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Are there any good promo videos around of the Triple H/Cena feud before WM22?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

#ROOT said:


> Yup, seems so. BUT is does mean we could potentially get Goldust/Cody Vs Show/Henry . Heel or face, that makes my dangly bits tingle.


I'm actually annoyed because if they did a double turn then a match between the teams could be a MOTYC. Heel Show + Heel Henry v. Face Goldust and maybe another guy? Dangly bits shoot off into space.



> Ric Flair Vs Edge - WWE Intercontinental Championship Match
> 
> 
> Rating: *
> *CAL SCALE - DUD*


what


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> what


Seems I spelt "0" wrong :lmao.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Rusev/Swagger - ***3/4 (Summerslam)*

Dat Rusev selling :banderas.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Need to know what's the general consensus on:

- Austin and Rock vs. nWo
- Christian vs. RVD Ladder match
- Benoit vs. Rhyno Smackdown June 2003
- HBK vs. Jericho II Raw 2003



#ROOT said:


> Huh? Heard? From who? About what exactly? I R CONFUZLED~!


OK, maybe "heard" is the wrong word... but I swear your philosophy is to never NO the Main Event match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I said at the start I would never NO the main event of a show or a WWE Title/WHC match .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Rollins/Ambrose - ***3/4 WHAT A FUN FUCKING MATCH (Summerslam)*

Can't wait to watch their Raw encounter.

Wasn't really feeling Jericho/Wyatt tbh. I've lost so much interest in Wyatt since that God awful cage match it isn't even funny. I hope they can give him something decent to work with although given Raw last night he'll probably run into Cena when he does and get beat again lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> I said at the start I would never NO the main event of a show or a WWE Title/WHC match .


Oh, okay.

Well, then, one of two:
1) give Booker/Batista a DUD before it even starts;
2) prepare to wish yourself a slow and painful death. 

:agree:


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Was Bray/Cena a match or segment? Either way, poor Bray.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

:lmao @ Bray Wyatt becoming a jobber already. Good thing I don't care for him because yesterday I had a whole hour of comedy when I couldn't go to sleep due to having lots of fun reading the reactions on the Raw section. :lmao



funnyfaces1 said:


> And the eulogy of Dean Ambrose.


That is... until Reigns ruined it. 

The pic of Ambrose was probably the best part of Raw last night. Along with the comedy provided in the main event. What a waste of time the show was.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

For those who've watched both, do you prefer the Career Threatening match Flair had with Orton or with Umaga (both in 2007)?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

So, when is Big Show turning on Mark Henry then? :


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> *Rollins/Ambrose - ***3/4 WHAT A FUN FUCKING MATCH (Summerslam)*
> 
> Can't wait to watch their Raw encounter.



the Raw match is even better.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Idk if anyone has mentioned it but theres a thread on here saying the WWE network will add 100 hours of nitro next week.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Did Cena 'mimic' Brock in his match with Wyatt on Raw? Havn't watched it yet, just read something along those lines.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yup. He pretty much squashed Bray by pretending to be Lesnar w/Germans and shit. Then Rowan and Harper interfere, Show and Henry come to help, 6-Man Tag, at the end Cena pretty much kills the Wyatts by himself.

Where are those that say Bray isn't BAHRIED now tbf?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> Need to know what's the general consensus on:
> *
> - Austin and Rock vs. nWo*
> - Christian vs. RVD Ladder match
> ...


The nwo tag is pretty fun, rocky was killing it in 2002 and its one of those big star-packed tags so it by default has to be solid

I remember hbk/y2j being solid/quite good but havent seen it in a while


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Yup. He pretty much squashed Bray by pretending to be Lesnar w/Germans and shit. Then Rowan and Harper interfere, Show and Henry come to help, 6-Man Tag, at the end Cena pretty much kills the Wyatts by himself.
> 
> Where are those that say Bray isn't BAHRIED now tbf?


Fucking piece of shit, sorry but i just had to say that. I knew it was bad, but that is god damn ridiculous. Can't they just have Cena in bandages or something, give the fucker a black eye to help sell what happened at SS. :cuss: And they had to use Wyatt like that to what, make a stupid, irrelevant point.

Will they ever fucking learn. If Cena wins at NOC, then i have no idea, i know ill skip everything Cena does until he loses the belt, couldn't give a fuck who wins it as long as Cena loses it.

Anyway:

*Steve Austin + Brian Pillman (RAW 11.04.1996)*

x24mlch

The infamous 'Pillman's got a gun' incident. Still great to this day IMO.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So now it's 1997 over! 

The year was finished with a pretty good title match between Owen and HBK despite the DQ finish. Hot crowd that was solidly behind Owen and a good performance from him.

Not gonna post any reviews or lists because I did skip through a lot and this whole year was like a taste of what the Attitude Era will eventually be about. ROCK is starting to becoming 'The Rock' now as the IC Champion, Austin is gonna head towards the main event and HBK's reign as #1 is gonna be cut short real soon. 98 looks very promising for the TV shows although not so much match quality obviously. But that's okay, sometimes I just wanna enjoy a fun, chaotic segment.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Speaking of 1997, I predict this is to be a stalemate as both matches are practically perfect but Austin/Bret WM13 or Taker/HBK HIAC?


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

The Fab Four said:


> Fucking piece of shit, sorry but i just had to say that. I knew it was bad, but that is god damn ridiculous. Can't they just have Cena in bandages or something, give the fucker a black eye to help sell what happened at SS. :cuss: And they had to use Wyatt like that to what, make a stupid, irrelevant point.
> 
> Will they ever fucking learn. If Cena wins at NOC, then i have no idea, i know ill skip everything Cena does until he loses the belt, couldn't give a fuck who wins it as long as Cena loses it.
> 
> ...


They are obviously going to make Cena look as strong as they can heading into NOC. Dont see the problem.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ryan193 said:


> They are obviously going to make Cena look as strong as they can heading into NOC. Dont see the problem.


It's the fact that has been only two weeks since SS, he could have at least be showing signs of what happened, put him banfages or something, just do something........CREATIVE. Instead of destroying the Wyatt's like that, even trying to 'mimic' Lesnar in the process. 

I mean, really? Be fucking worse if he wins at NOC IMO.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

The Fab Four said:


> It's the fact that has been only two weeks since SS, he could have at least be showing signs of what happened, put him banfages or something, just do something........CREATIVE. Instead of destroying the Wyatt's like that, even trying to 'mimic' Lesnar in the process.
> 
> I mean, really? Be fucking worse if he wins at NOC IMO.


If he was in bandages and took out The Wyatt's or anyone else for that matter people would complain about him 'burying' the roster whilst injured. Him not being on Raw last week was there way of selling the beating he took.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ryan193 said:


> If he was in bandages and took out The Wyatt's or anyone else for that matter people would complain about him 'burying' the roster whilst injured. Him not being on Raw last week was there way of selling the beating he took.


I didn't realise he was going to be doing that i guess, esp to the Wyatt's.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

They don't need to make Cena look "strong" heading into NoC, don't be preposterous. Cena has a solid decade of being the top guy and nearly always coming out on top in the end. It would have been 10 times better for Cena not to wrestle until NoC. Just show Cena rehabbing from his "injuries" this week. Then for the next two weeks show vignettes of him wearing all black, training in a grungy gym somewhere in Boston. The less, the better. Cena should be preparing for the match of his life, humbled, not wrestling a nothing match against Bray Wyatt. It benefits neither party from where I'm sitting. Wyatt, fresh off his win from SS gets demolished by Cena...what does that do for anyone? Cena already vanquished Bray in a Last Man Standing match, nothing was gained by that match on Raw. Shitty, lazy, booking is how I see it.

I thought the promo Cena cut was fine, it accomplished what it needed to accomplish. If I was booking we wouldn't have seen him in a WWE ring after that promo until NoC. Just shoot some gritty vignettes showing how serious Cena is taking this match and how humbled he has become since being squashed by Brock. You might even show him expressing some doubt, I mean that is the human reaction to having your ass handed to you like that. The more human they make Cena appear, the better off they are. That has been true since Day 1 with him. When he's not doing Super Cena and is instead just being John, he's infinitely more like able and also capable of showing a decent edge that can make older fans identify with him along with his legions of kiddie fans.

My .02 on the matter.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> They don't need to make Cena look "strong" heading into NoC, don't be preposterous. Cena has a solid decade of being the top guy and nearly always coming out on top in the end. It would have been 10 times better for Cena not to wrestle until NoC. Just show Cena rehabbing from his "injuries" this week. Then for the next two weeks show vignettes of him wearing all black, training in a grungy gym somewhere in Boston. The less, the better. Cena should be preparing for the match of his life, humbled, not wrestling a nothing match against Bray Wyatt. It benefits neither party from where I'm sitting. Wyatt, fresh off his win from SS gets demolished by Cena...what does that do for anyone? Cena already vanquished Bray in a Last Man Standing match, nothing was gained by that match on Raw. Shitty, lazy, booking is how I see it.
> 
> I thought the promo Cena cut was fine, it accomplished what it needed to accomplish. If I was booking we wouldn't have seen him in a WWE ring after that promo until NoC. Just shoot some gritty vignettes showing how serious Cena is taking this match and how humbled he has become since being squashed by Brock. You might even show him expressing some doubt, I mean that is the human reaction to having your ass handed to you like that. The more human they make Cena appear, the better off they are. That has been true since Day 1 with him. When he's not doing Super Cena and is instead just being John, he's infinitely more like able and also capable of showing a decent edge that can make older fans identify with him along with his legions of kiddie fans.
> 
> My .02 on the matter.



Totally agree. WWE. com has an article about Cena, asking did Cena prove his critcs wrong? Hell no even in a kayfabe sense, Cena has already beaten Bray Wyatt. Last night didn't prove that Cena is animal enough to beat Lesnar. It just proves that he owns Bray Wyatt's ass.Whoopie.

Have Cena training montages ala DBZ lol, preparing to take down the beast instead of squashing young talent.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Ryan193 said:


> They are obviously going to make Cena look as strong as they can heading into NOC. Dont see the problem.


Maybe it's the fact that they took a storyline that could have been stretched and built over four weeks and already started with week four. Worst of all, he did further damage to a group that he already did A LOT of damage to earlier in the year and there is no denying that. Bray and The Wyatt Family have not been the same after the Cena program coming off big wins vs. Daniel Bryan and The Shield.

I'm just really sick of Cena and fear that the same shit is going to happen to Rollins and Ambrose, if they turn him heel. I've already come to accept the fact that Cena will save America from the evil Russian and beat Rusev in the very near future.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Finished Capital Combat. 6/10 on my scorecard. The tag matches were the highlight of the night. LOLRobocop. What a waste of 2 mins and probably shitload of money. Main event surprisingly sucked. Waiting for that run in. Opener was my MOTN.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> *Rusev/Swagger - ***3/4 (Summerslam)*
> 
> Dat Rusev selling :banderas.


:dance

Such a damn good match.



ATF said:


> Need to know what's the general consensus on:
> 
> - Austin and Rock vs. nWo
> - Christian vs. RVD Ladder match
> ...


Not seen the other three but I've always felt Christian/RVD is one of the most underrated and slept on ladder matches out there. **** all the way on the last watch.



Smitty said:


> Idk if anyone has mentioned it but theres a thread on here saying the WWE network will add 100 hours of nitro next week.


Quoted this because no one responded and it's 100% true. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wait, after my thoughts of Usos going heel, out of the blue Goldust & Cody do? wtf :lmao

Say goodbye to that post-SummerSlam high. It can only last one week.



ATF said:


> Yup. He pretty much squashed Bray by pretending to be Lesnar w/Germans and shit. Then Rowan and Harper interfere, Show and Henry come to help, 6-Man Tag, at the end Cena pretty much kills the Wyatts by himself.
> 
> Where are those that say Bray isn't BAHRIED now tbf?


that being defeated by the top babyface in the company stuff must be tough. Call me when he's losing to R-Truth & Adam Rose, and we'll talk.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Usos as heels were hideous. Thank goodness they're in there position that they are at. I hope they squash the team of Henry and Big Show.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Wait, after my thoughts of Usos going heel, out of the blue Goldust & Cody do? wtf :lmao
> 
> Say goodbye to that post-SummerSlam high. It can only last one week.
> 
> ...


Even then you can easily recover. Swagger must have lost to Rose at least 4 times on TV and was in a meaningful feud about a month after.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Gave Cena/Lesnar II the re-watch treatment and it held up just fine. Extreme Rules is on a different level but this was pretty much perfect for what it was. I got no problem whatsoever calling it a great match. 

I didn't watch Raw last night. Does it look like they're doing Reigns/Rollins at Night of Champions? I wouldn't be cool with Reigns pinning Rollins before Ambrose does.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Man, 1990 WCW Tag Team div. is the GOAT tag division. Road Warriors, The Steiner Brothers, Freebirds, Midnight Express, Rock & Roll Express, Doom.

GREAT tag matches back to back with Midnight express vs. The southern boys and The Steiner Brothers vs. The Freebirds at Great American Bash.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I think they're doing Roman vs. Randal again, but I'm not sure since I only skimmed through RAW (it looked like absolute shit).

Oh, and :lel at the SD spoilers. Let's just say there's one match on there that's happened at least 500 times and no one really ever wanted it in the first place


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Even then you can easily recover. Swagger must have lost to Rose at least 4 times on TV and was in a meaningful feud about a month after.


Bingo.



Lazyking said:


> Man, 1990 WCW Tag Team div. is the GOAT tag division. Road Warriors, The Steiner Brothers, Freebirds, Midnight Express, Rock & Roll Express, Doom.
> 
> GREAT tag matches back to back with Midnight express vs. The southern boys and The Steiner Brothers vs. The Freebirds at Great American Bash.


Midnights vs Southern Boys. Possibly the greatest US match ever. I know it is still my pick for best from WCW. Sweet Stan's karate fighting technique for life.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

It actually made me sad at the end of the match cause I know I don't have many Midnight matches left in my PPV watch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You still got a solid amount of Eaton greatness left over the next two years, so you'll manage to get yor fill. :mark:


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

YES EATON is beautiful lol.

Also, have to mention that WCW has the fastest ref counts when the win is coming. Its really noticeable. 123. No slow Earl Hebner counts here.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

BEAUTIFUL BOBBY

Watching SummerSlam 97 and this show is like...totally great b/c everything is a wild hot mess. Everyone wants to kill everyone and I love it. Too bad I hate the main event the way I do or else it would be a supreme show. Why they didn't just beat each other up and did pointless shit leg work is beyond me. I probably won't watch that waste of time just to end this show on a high note. _(which is Undertaker entering as champion, btw)_ Mankind vs Helmsley is legit terrific though, btw. Brutal cage match.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Lazyking said:


> Man, 1990 WCW Tag Team div. is the GOAT tag division. Road Warriors, The Steiner Brothers, Freebirds, Midnight Express, Rock & Roll Express, Doom.
> 
> GREAT tag matches back to back with Midnight express vs. The southern boys and The Steiner Brothers vs. The Freebirds at Great American Bash.


Don't forget the Nasties, BABY!

I've not seen a match involving Bobby Eaton since probably 1992.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I couldn't imagine a world like that.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

If it's still there, people should get the 140gb career pack of the Midnight Express via XWTClassics.

Forget that Randy Orton nonsense.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

^Listen people.

and good lord :lmao did I just see something crazy or was Taker vs Bret completely not boring? I don't believe in the term guilty pleasures, but I think these two just changed one of my philosophies.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

1990 WCW Tag? Then let me pimp this for the 1000th time


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> that being defeated by the top babyface in the company stuff must be tough. Call me when he's losing to R-Truth & Adam Rose, and we'll talk.


Difference is he wasn't just beat, he was virtually SQUASHED. He was booked to look even worse than in the Cena feud from WM-Payback, if that was possible _(and truth be said, none of it is Cena's fault, but don't you find it a coincidence that Cena was the one opponent that Creative booked to almost completely halt Bray's momentum? I don't because I expected it)_. There's the argument that Cena was in LESNAR mode, but it still doesn't justify that they fed one of their top heels, who had some kind of credibility after beating Jericho at SS, just to make a pointless statement. Cena shouldn't even wrestle until NOC, he should just go out there and promo about how the SS squash humbled him and he's taking it seriously imho.

Doesn't help that Cena pretty much killed him AND the other two stooges all by himself at the end of the 6-Man Tag. And I say it that way because I don't wanna say he went Super Cena since that would be clichéd.

I really do hope that Creative has something remotely worthy of Bray and the other two after this debacle. Continuing the Jericho feud may not be the best possibility given Jericho's injury off a jellyfish attack. And regarding the Cena thing, I just hope he isn't booked to do the same thing to any other credible guy (that I like :side just because HE'S GONE BORK MODE~!.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well, I decided to dabble in my first Cal Scale review just for the fun of it. Had SummerSlam 2012 fresh on the brain, so why not start there? Yes, I went back to snowflakes for the sake of the game.

--------------

*SummerSlam 2012*

Chris Jericho vs Dolph Ziggler - **** (0.5)

Daniel Bryan vs Kane - ***3/4* (1)

_WWE Intercontinental Championship_
The Miz(c) vs Rey Mysterio - **1/2* (0.5)

_WWE World Heavyweight Championship_
Sheamus(c) vs Alberto Del Rio - ****1/4* (2)

_WWE Tag Team Championship_
Kofi Kingston & R-Truth(c) vs Primetime Players - *1/4** (0)

_WWE Championship - Triple Threat Match_
CM Punk vs John Cena vs Big Show - ****1/2* (3)

Brock Lesnar vs Triple H - **1/2* (0.5)

*Total Score*: 7.5​

- Jericho vs Dolph was shaky in trying to find chemistry for the majority. Climax managed to find some decent traction, but it was too little to late to save it from anything other than mediocre.

- Danielson vs Kane is still a solid outing. Largely carried by Danielson and his antics. Kane was a decent powerful foil for him throughout, but naturally, it was the Danielson show.

- Mysterio had a neat nearfall moment out of the Skullcrushing Finale. Rest es no bueno.

- World Championship jumped up in quality on the rewatch. Both men worked real hard together & their chemistry tends to soar b/c there is a natural fit among the two. Del Rio was hot on his offense. His kicks are always so lethal. Bit of a shaky finish is unfortunate in this one as it really would have sufficed w/a neater ending. All the same, it was a respectable effort; good match. Sheamus' insane consistency was arguably at his peak in this year.

- Punker vs Cena vs Show was borderline great. Again, another iffy finish tend to hurt more than help. I liked Punk sneaking out the win, although the restart was unnecessary. Minus that one aspect, this kicked ass. w/Show earning MVP. He was a MONSTER for over 50% of the match. Bless him. Show's domination portions were great. He looked like the force he needed to. Of course it wouldn't be until October where that would come full circle, but the seeds were planted here. Better than they were once Cena beat him in a Steel Cage immediately after the heel turn. Cena was really good in this & of course Punker was on point too. Three great talents making an iffy type of match into something that clicked. The bookers hurt this match. Not the talent.

- Main event is a bore. Brock dominating a lot was fine. Believable and what it should have been. But his opponent was Triple H. So his milking of the assault was all hammy & over-done. Then Brock gets wounded and the match really hits a wall. So. Damn. Dull. Thankfully Brock wins this.

- Very flat SummerSlam. One passable midcard match & luckily two major Championship matches which delivered in quality. But the large portion of this was poor. And filled w/absolute filler all over the show. That was trash. Thankfully this was the only SummerSlam in recent memory to contain so much Hollywood fluff & the formats are normally MUCH stronger.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I thought Brock/Hunter I was great myself, my favorite of the trilogy. I also thought you might've overrated a little Sheamus/ADR (I believe I have it at around **3/4 or ***, dat fucking ending is GODAWFUL and pissed me off way too much) and underrated Jericho/Ziggler (I think I have it at **3/4). Otherwise, you're about on par with my rating for that PPV.

Lucky that it was outshined by, outside of 2010, every other LA SummerSlam. 2011, 2013 and 2014 all crush it HARD, and 2009 also runs miles around it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You suck Cody. Main event rules!

Speaking of SummerSlam though... thinks I might get started on 2006.

Oh hey new video on my BLOG~! too .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Never did care for it a whole ton before, so it dropping didn't surprise me. Triple H would love me if I decided to do my review on SmummerSlam 97 _(or SummerSlam)_ instead. He had my MOTN on it & legitimately find it better than everything on 2012's card.

I may keep up w/these. Tis a fun way to add to the reviewing process, this ol Cal scale here. Snowflakes mean nothing to me in the scenario, only the POINTS haha.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

CAL SCALE TAKING OVER THE WORLD~!


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

> and truth be said, none of it is Cena's fault, but don't you find it a coincidence that Cena was the one opponent that Creative booked to almost completely halt Bray's momentum? I don't because I expected it


I find it more fitting that the nonsensical Jericho/Bray feud hurt Wyatt to the point of eliciting boring chants during his promos and apathy during his matches yet Jericho is always welcomed back and cherished by fans. Of course, though, lolCenaburial.




#ROOT said:


> CAL SCALE TAKING OVER THE WORLD~!


CalPal, is there any leeway in the Cal Scale to add in points for minus stars? I know such a rating is pretentious, but sometimes a match really does deserve such slander. I'd like to see how Triplemania 2013 and Knockouts Knockdown fairs on your formula.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

#ROOT said:


> CAL SCALE TAKING OVER THE WORLD~!


Somehow you finally got what you wanted, you RED bastard. TOTAL DOMINATION.



Rah said:


> I find it more fitting that the nonsensical Jericho/Bray feud hurt Wyatt to the point of eliciting boring chants during his promos and apathy during his matches. Of course, though, lolCenaburial.


It isn't only subject to all the "other" WWE section threads, after all...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well I never use -***** or anything like that because, you know, GAY and shit. But I suppose if you wanted to have minus stars you could like, just give them the same points as they'd get with positive stars, but add a minus to em? So -***** would be -9 on the scale.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

How does the CAL scale work?

Also Summerslam 1990...um Promos!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah may let the floodgates open now.

Refer to the OP, Lazyking & you'll be good to go.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Lazyking said:


> *How does the CAL scale work?*
> 
> Also Summerslam 1990...um Promos!


See the first page of this thread.

Just remember to do something Cal never did - when you give a DUD, give that match -1 point because something that bad deserves a point taken off. :


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HOGAN VS ORTON TIME~!

Ooooo look something shiny! *gets distracted*


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It's great to see another soul pick Show/Cena/Punk as MOTN, but it just doesn't sit well with me to see Mr. Cody use star ratings and Cal scores when he made a name by not conforming to such objects. I guess this is a one time thing, but let's not let a metric that doesn't penalize DUDs take over the world. And now that negative stars are allowed, I wouldn't be surprised if more PPVs get hilariously low scores.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm only using the systems for the fun of the reviews. Words still hold more power at the end of the day w/me. Always will. Probably pump out another review today. Feeling saucy.

I can agree w/Cal's use of giving no points for DUDs, rather than taking away. You watch a match and it is worthless, therefore, it earns no points. Now skipping something that sounds so unappealing you don't even want to bother? Yeah, now that's the crap you subtract.

LOGIC 8*D


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I would agree with giving no points if it were from 1/4* to * only. Those being terrible matches with just one or maybe two redeeming qualities. DUD is a rating I give to an unfathomably bad match with pretty much 0 redeeming qualities other than accidental hilarity and therefore I'd penalize it with a point off. That's the way I see it, call me crazy if you want to.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think any more thinking into the situation takes away the fun from reviewing & basically explains why I don't hold a ton of merit behind the ranking systems to begin w/. Scenario is, anything that low is all garbage. End of story. No need to micromanage.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

FUCK LOGIC


I'm with funnyfaces on this one. I guess it depends on how you use your star ratings, but I'd consider a DUD much worse than worthless. I mean a 0 literally adds nothing, but a DUD, to me, would be subtraction. dudn't matter tho b/c cal scale sux 'n' how do you rate a ppv when you don't even watch all of the matches on it???? ''NO''??? what is this ''NO''??? NEGATIVE ONE for something you didn't even watch???? Meanwhile shitty Austin/Undertaker match adds like 37 points????

I'm going to use a nonsensical scale for every PPV I watch from now on. First up I will grade matches based on usefulness as a utensil for cooking scrambled eggs.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Did you not give PTP vs. Black Guys a DUD because of the Kobe Bryant chant? And did anyone else like Bulldog vs. Shamrock from SS97? Good match with a fun stipulation. That entire undercard was something else.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Never did care for it a whole ton before, so it dropping didn't surprise me. Triple H would love me if I decided to do my review on SmummerSlam 97 _(or SummerSlam)_ instead. He had my MOTN on it & legitimately find it better than everything on 2012's card.
> 
> I may keep up w/these. Tis a fun way to add to the reviewing process, this ol Cal scale here. Snowflakes mean nothing to me in the scenario, only the POINTS haha.



Thank goodness someone else loves the Mankind/Hunter cage match as much as I do, every time I watch it I come away scratching my head wondering why more praise isn't heaped on it. I can't think of a single Foley/Hunter match that is less than great, all of them rule the world and the SS cage match is no different. They also made the smart decision to keep it in that sweet spot range of 10-12 minutes so the intensity is sky high for the duration. Foley taking that cage door slam the way he did was just brutal, he said in his book it's the most painful thing in a match he's ever experienced, which says an awful lot considering, you know, Foley is a total psycho and endures more punishment in an average match than most people do in a lifetime.

I enjoy Bret/Taker as well, but same as you Foley/Hunter is my MotN


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't remember much from the Mankind/HHH cage match aside from the door spot. When I was watching them last year or the year before though, I do remember thinking that another match they had was better. I believe it was the one where Foley goes head first through the announce table. Was it the KoTR? Either way, I certainly agree those two men had some great matches with each other. I might look them up and watch them on the network tomorrow.

Also I'll probably watch Bret/Taker again. I remember thinking that match was fantastic.

Edit: And perhaps I'll find all the matches Foley and Taker had in 1996. Those were good.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

In my database, I score shows out of 10. Each segment gets points up to 3 and down as many as -1. Thing is, I put more weight in the main event and title matches so the system is all wonky to the point where I just grade the overall show out of 10 now. 

Hence Summerslam 90' getting a 2/10 simply for the Tag title match and the solid promos.

I've had zero perfect shows so far.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So StuckInHell4-Life red repped me for no apparent reason and literally put a . in the description. That's always nice. Here's this for anyone that missed it:












funnyfaces1 said:


> It's great to see another soul pick Show/Cena/Punk as MOTN, but it just doesn't sit well with me to see Mr. Cody use star ratings and Cal scores when he made a name by not conforming to such objects. I guess this is a one time thing, but let's not let a metric that doesn't penalize DUDs take over the world. And now that negative stars are allowed, I wouldn't be surprised if more PPVs get hilariously low scores.


Cody used star ratings for years though.  Jericho/Ziggler is still my MOTN but the 3-way is right behind it. I'm actually surprised I have Lesnar/HHH higher despite not even liking it much at all.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So I actually watched a few TV gems from 2002/2003. Benoit/Rhyno from Smackdown in June 2003 and Christian/RVD Ladder match. They both ROCKED. Benoit/Rhyno was expected, as those two together couldn't have been less than rulesome, but I was kinda skeptical regarding the Ladder match cause RVD. Luckily, it didn't suck and it was actually pretty great. Good, because I'm putting on these TV-match-only cards and any little thing helps .



Jack Evans 187 said:


> So StuckInHell4-Life red repped me for no apparent reason and literally put a . in the description. That's always nice.


The same happened to me :lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So I just had a quick check and discovered that my 100th PPV Ramble will be whichever 2007 PPV I choose to do last! So uhhh... best non WM/RR 07 PPV? Survivor Series? Backlash? Something else?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

^^^ Probably Backlash or Cyber Sunday, cal. Although I've only seen about half of Cyber Sunday. I've been wanting to watch all of Survivor Series but never gotten around to it. 



ATF said:


> The same happened to me :lmao :lmao :lmao


:lol What a guy.

Here's another TV gem for ya that should _probably_ make your list considering the participants:

*WWE Tag Team Championship*
Charlie Haas & Shelton Benjamin (c) vs. Rey Mysterio & Billy Kidman
_Smackdown - August 14, 2003_

Man it has been TOO long since I've been able to plug that match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I wanted to use it, but then I reminded myself of another big match for Rey instead, Matt/Rey for the CW Title. Plus it allowed me to use the ever so awesome WGTT/Eddie & Tajiri tag on Smackdown. Boy, my 2003 card fucking rules.

Though not as much as the 2009 or 2013 cards. 



#ROOT said:


> So I just had a quick check and discovered that my 100th PPV Ramble will be whichever 2007 PPV I choose to do last! So uhhh... best non WM/RR 07 PPV? Survivor Series? Backlash? Something else?


It's one of the two you said, either Backlash or Survivor Series. Followed by No Mercy and Cyber Sunday.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

So, do you think Brock had to count after each suplex he gave Cena? Surely it can't just be a coincidence, 16 suplex's, Cena with 15 titles. Seems dubious to me.

After watching this week's Raw, im damn sure Cena is winning TBH. That opening segment was fucking horrible with HBK/Hogan/Flair. Must really need their paychecks.

Don't get me started on the Cena/Wyatt's fiasco.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> So StuckInHell4-Life red repped me for no apparent reason and literally put a . in the description. That's always nice.


Same here :lol. I thought it was because of something i said against Cena, so i red repped him back lol. First red i have given out in a ages.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I got the same red rep.. might be a glitch lol.

I also got a guy who red repped me and RANTED in the message. Twas hilarious.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Steve Austin/Bret Hart 1996 Promo Playlist:* http://www.dailymotion.com/playlist...-austin-bret-hart-1996-promos/1#video=x24nsx9


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Okay, I've been compiling these TV-match-only cards for every year since 2000 (I was thinking of doing since 1993, but I'm kinda lazy for it, but I may add 93-99 later), all of them with 8 matches and a pre-show included. It has been tons of fun and it allowed me to find some sweet gems I didn't knew even existed.

So here is every card:



Spoiler: 2000



Pre-show match
European Championship match
William Regal (c) vs. Gangrel
Jakked 11/11

Steel Cage match
Jeff Hardy vs. Al Snow
Raw 1/3

Kurt Angle vs. Eddie Guerrero
Smackdown 5/29

Strap match
Trish Stratus vs. Lita
Raw 10/23

Hardcore Championship Triple Threat match
Steve Blackman (c) vs. Raven vs. Hardcore Holly
Raw 12/25

Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit
Raw 5/8

Matt Hardy vs. Essa Rios
Smackdown 5/25

WWF Tag Team Championship match
Edge & Christian (c) vs. The Undertaker & The Rock
Raw 9/4/2000

WWF Championship match
Triple H (c) vs. TAKA Michinoku
Raw 4/10





Spoiler: 2001



Pre-show match
Winner becomes WWF Comissioner
William Regal vs. Al Snow
Smackdown 3/8

Intercontinental Championship match
Kane (c) vs. Albert
Smackdown 6/28

WCW Cruiserweight Championship match
X-Pac (c) vs. Billy Kidman
Smackdown 10/11

Country Whipping match
Trish Stratus vs. Stephanie McMahon
Raw 4/20

Hardcore Championship match
The Undertaker (c) vs. Tajiri
Smackdown 12/27

WWF Tag Team Championship TLC match
Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho (c) vs. Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys vs. The Dudley Boyz
Smackdown 5/24

Triple H vs. Test
Raw 4/30

Street Fight
The Rock vs. Shane McMahon
Raw 8/16

WWF Championship match
Kurt Angle (c) vs. Steve Austin
Raw 10/8





Spoiler: 2002



Pre-show match
Las Vegas Street Fight
Test vs. Al Snow
Raw 10/7

Intercontinental Championship Ladder match
Eddie Guerrero (c) vs. Rob Van Dam
Raw 5/27

Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Benoit
Smackdown 10/3

World Tag Team Championship match
BookDust (c) vs. Vitamin C
Raw 12/23

Steel Cage match
Edge vs. Kurt Angle
Smackdown 7/25

World Heavyweight Championship match
Ric Flair vs. Triple H
Raw 9/2

Women's Championship match
Trish Stratus (c) vs. Victoria
Raw 9/30

Hulk Hogan vs. Brock Lesnar
Smackdown 8/8

WWE Undisputed Championship Ladder match
The Undertaker (c) vs. Jeff Hardy
Raw 7/1





Spoiler: 2003



Pre-show match
Bryan Danielson vs. Jamie Noble
Velocity 1/18

Cruiserweight Championship match
Matt Hardy (c) vs. Rey Mysterio
Smackdown 5/6

Steel Cage match
Lita vs. Victoria
Raw 11/24

Chris Benoit vs. Rhyno
Smackdown 6/19

WWE Tag Team Championship match
Eddie Guerrero & Tajiri (c) vs. Team Angle
Smackdown 5/29

Intercontinental Championship Ladder match
Christian (c) vs. Rob Van Dam
Raw 9/29

World Heavyweight Championship match
Triple H (c) vs. Shawn Michaels
Raw 12/29

The Undertaker vs. John Cena
Smackdown 4/30

WWE Championship 60-Minute Iron Man match
Kurt Angle (c) vs. Brock Lesnar
Smackdown 9/18





Spoiler: 2004



Pre-show
Paul London vs. Akio
Velocity 12/4

Rey Mysterio vs. Jamie Noble
Velocity 5/1

WWE Tag Team Championship match
Rikishi & Scotty 2 Hotty (c) vs. Charlie Haas & Rico
Smackdown 4/22

Intercontinental Championship match
Edge (c) vs. Chris Jericho
Raw 8/23

Chris Benoit, Shawn Michaels, Mick Foley & Shelton Benjamin vs. Evolution
Raw 4/12

Women's Championship match
Trish Stratus (c) vs. Lita
Raw 12/6

World Tag Team Championship match
Booker T & Rob Van Dam (c) vs. The Dudley Boyz
Raw 3/15

The Undertaker vs. John Cena
Smackdown 6/24

WWE Championship Steel Cage match
JBL (c) vs. Eddie Guerrero
Smackdown 7/15





Spoiler: 2005



Pre-show match
Trish Stratus & Mickie James vs. Victoria & Candice Michelle
Raw 9/10

Street Fight
Edge vs. Matt Hardy
Raw 8/25

WWE Tag Team Championship 15-Minute Iron Man match
MNM (c) vs. Hardcore Holly & Charlie Haas
Smackdown 6/2

Chris Benoit vs. William Regal
Velocity 10/2

No Disqualification match
The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton
Smackdown 9/16

Kurt Angle vs. Marty Jannetty
Smackdown 3/17

Gold Rush Tournament match
Shawn Michaels vs. Shelton Benjamin
Raw 5/2

Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio
Smackdown 6/23

WWE Championship You're Fired match
John Cena (c) vs. Chris Jericho
Raw 8/22





Spoiler: 2006



Pre-show match
Trish Stratus vs. Mickie James
Raw 9/11

United States Championship match
Bobby Lashley (c) vs. Finlay
Smackdown 7/14

Londrick vs. William Regal & Dave Taylor
Smackdown 12/8

Nº1 Contender's Triple Threat match
Triple H vs. The Big Show vs. Rob Van Dam
Raw 2/20

Rey Mysterio vs. Mark Henry
Smackdown 5/5

No Holds Barred match
Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton
Smackdown 1/27

Shawn Michaels vs. Umaga
Raw 7/31

World Heavyweight Championship match
Kurt Angle (c) vs. The Undertaker
Smackdown 3/3

WWE Championship TLC match
Edge (c) vs. Ric Flair
Raw 1/16





Spoiler: 2007



Pre-show match
Monster Mash Battle Royal
Kane vs. Mark Henry vs. The Great Khali vs. Big Daddy V
ECW 10/30

Finlay vs. Matt Hardy
Smackdown 6/22

Women's Championship Falls Count Anywhere match
Melina (c) vs. Mickie James
Raw 3/5

Extreme Rules match
The ECW Originals vs. The New Breed
ECW 4/4

ECW Championship Last Chance match
John Morrison (c) vs. CM Punk
ECW 9/1

Edge vs. Chris Benoit
Smackdown 6/8

John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels
Raw 4/23

Career vs. Royal Rumble match
Ric Flair vs. Triple H
Raw 12/29

World Heavyweight Championship Steel Cage match
The Undertaker (c) vs. Batista
Smackdown 5/11





Spoiler: 2008



Pre-show match
Women's Championship match
Beth Phoenix (c) vs. Mickie James
Raw 4/14

ECW Championship match
Matt Hardy (c) vs. Finlay
ECW 11/11

WWE Tag Team Championship 15-Minute Iron Man match
The Miz & John Morrison (c) vs. Jimmy Wang Yang & Shannon Moore
ECW 1/8

Triple H vs. Mark Henry
Raw 6/23

Steel Cage match
Jeff Hardy vs. Umaga
Raw 1/8

World Tag Team Championship match
Priceless (c) vs. CM Punk & Kofi Kingston
Raw 10/27

Career Threatening Street Fight
Ric Flair vs. Vince McMahon
Raw 3/17

The Undertaker vs. Kane
Smackdown 4/4

World Heavyweight Championship Last Man Standing match
Chris Jericho (c) vs. Shawn Michaels
Raw 11/10





Spoiler: 2009



Pre-show match
Cody Rhodes vs. Shane McMahon
Superstars 3/16

Intercontinental Championship match
Rey Mysterio (c) vs. John Morrison
Smackdown 9/4

Women's Championship match
Melina (c) vs. Beth Phoenix
Raw 4/20

Mark Henry vs. Evan Bourne
ECW 6/16

John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels
Raw 1/26

ECW Championship match
Jack Swagger (c) vs. Christian
ECW 2/24

The Undertaker vs. Chris Jericho
Smackdown 11/13

WWE Championship Last Man Standing match
Randy Orton (c) vs. Triple H
Raw 6/22

World Heavyweight Championship vs. Career Steel Cage match
CM Punk (c) vs. Jeff Hardy
Smackdown 8/28





Spoiler: 2010



2010

Pre-show match
Nº1 Contender's Triple Threat match
Edge vs. Randy Orton vs. Chris Jericho
Raw 7/19

ECW Championship Extreme Rules match
Christian (c) vs. Ezekiel Jackson
ECW 2/16

Drew McIntyre vs. Chris Masters
Superstars 8/26

Daniel Bryan vs. Dolph Ziggler
Smackdown 10/29

AJ Lee vs. Naomi
NXT 11/24

Falls Count Anywhere match
Sheamus vs. John Morrison
Raw 9/13

The Undertaker vs. CM Punk
Smackdown 9/10

Shawn Michaels vs. Rey Mysterio
Smackdown 1/29

WWE Championship TLC match
The Miz (c) vs. Jerry Lawler
Raw 11/29





Spoiler: 2011



Pre-show match
Alberto Del Rio vs. Christian
Smackdown 4/11

The Usos & Trent Barreta vs. Heath Slater, Tyson Kidd & Justin Gabriel
Superstars 6/30

No Countout match
Evan Bourne vs. Sin Cara
Raw 6/27

Street Fight
Cody Rhodes vs. Randy Orton
Smackdown 11/4

CM Punk vs. Dolph Ziggler
Raw 11/21

Falls Count Anywhere match
John Morrison vs. R-Truth
Raw 8/15

World Heavyweight Championship Steel Cage match
Mark Henry (c) vs. Daniel Bryan
Smackdown 11/29

Beth Phoenix vs. Gail Kim
Superstars 6/30

WWE Championship match
Rey Mysterio (c) vs. John Cena
Raw 7/25





Spoiler: 2012



Pre-show match
Kassius Ohno vs. Richie Steamboat
NXT 9/26

Sheamus vs. Tensai
Smackdown 8/3

Beth Phoenix vs. Natalya
Smackdown 9/28

Christian vs. Drew McIntyre
Superstars 5/31

No Disqualification match
Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett
Smackdown 2/3

Triple Threat match
Chris Jericho vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. The Miz
Raw 8/13

NXT Championship Tournament Finals
Seth Rollins vs. Jinder Mahal
NXT 8/29

World Heavyweight Championship No Disqualification match
Daniel Bryan (c) vs. The Big Show
Smackdown 1/13

WWE Championship No Disqualification match
CM Punk (c) vs. Mark Henry
Raw 4/16





Spoiler: 2013



Pre-show match
The Undertaker vs. Dean Ambrose
Smackdown 4/26

Sheamus vs. Wade Barrett
Main Event 5/29

Divas Championship match
Eve Torres (c) vs. Kaitlyn
Raw 1/14

William Regal vs. Kassius Ohno
NXT 4/10

2 out of 3 Falls match
Antonio Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn
NXT 8/21

WWE Tag Team Championship No Disqualification match
The Shield (c) vs. The Rhodes Brothers
Raw 10/14

Nº1 Contender's match
John Cena vs. CM Punk
Raw 2/25

Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan
Raw 12/18

World Heavyweight Championship Last Man Standing match
The Big Show (c) vs. Alberto Del Rio
Smackdown 1/11





Spoiler: 2014 so far



Pre-show match
Sheamus vs. Ryback
Smackdown 2/7

Intercontinental Championship match
Bad News Barrett (c) vs. Dolph Ziggler
Raw 6/24

Divas Championship match
AJ Lee (c) vs. Paige
Raw 4/7

The Usos vs. The Wyatt Family
Raw 7/7

Corey Graves vs. Sami Zayn
NXT 4/3

Falls Count Anywhere match
Seth Rollins vs. Dean Ambrose
Raw 8/18

NXT Championship match
Adrian Neville (c) vs. Tyler Breeze
NXT 8/14

John Cena vs. Cesaro
Raw 2/17

Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan
Raw 2/3



Let me know which do you think are the best ones


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

2009 

:homer


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Red repped as well.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Twisted14 said:


> I don't remember much from the Mankind/HHH cage match aside from the door spot. When I was watching them last year or the year before though, I do remember thinking that another match they had was better. I believe it was the one where Foley goes head first through the announce table. Was it the KoTR? Either way, I certainly agree those two men had some great matches with each other. I might look them up and watch them on the network tomorrow.
> 
> Also I'll probably watch Bret/Taker again. I remember thinking that match was fantastic.
> 
> Edit: And perhaps I'll find all the matches Foley and Taker had in 1996. Those were good.



Foley had a total of 6 major matches with Taker and either 6 or 7 major matches with Hunter, all the matches in both feuds achieved greatness in my book. I can't think of a single other wrestler who managed to have 6 major matches in a feud and make all of them great, and Foley did it twice. That's his legacy, he was consistently great night in and night out and never fell into the trap of working the same match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Wow awesome job ATF. I think 2005 is the best card of them all. 2001 I disagree with though. I know you're logic, but you out thought yourself. Just choose Benoit/Austin as your WWE title match and build the rest of the card from there.

Also, 2003 you HAVE to go Brock/Benoit or Angle/Taker as your WWE title match. Absolute must. I guess we differ on how we like cards. I just would pick the best match possible then try to make everything else work off of that. You go for more consistency and pass on picking the best possible match sometimes. That's cool though.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

So I've got tonight and tomorrow completely free, any suggestions/recommendations for stuff for me to watch? The more the merrier, the more varied the better


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

ATF said:


> Okay, I've been compiling these TV-match-only cards for every year since 2000 (I was thinking of doing since 1993, but I'm kinda lazy for it, but I may add 93-99 later), all of them with 8 matches and a pre-show included. It has been tons of fun and it allowed me to find some sweet gems I didn't knew even existed.
> 
> So here is every card:
> 
> ...


That 2009 card is boss.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

My favorite is actually 2013. Almost every match is ****+ for my estimation.



Flux said:


> So I've got tonight and tomorrow completely free, any suggestions/recommendations for stuff for me to watch? The more the merrier, the more varied the better


Watch my TV cards and you'll waste an entire day's worth of wrestling :



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Wow awesome job ATF. I think 2005 is the best card of them all. 2001 I disagree with though. I know you're logic, but you out thought yourself. Just choose Benoit/Austin as your WWE title match and build the rest of the card from there.
> 
> Also, 2003 you HAVE to go Brock/Benoit or Angle/Taker as your WWE title match. Absolute must. I guess we differ on how we like cards. I just would pick the best match possible then try to make everything else work off of that. You go for more consistency and pass on picking the best possible match sometimes. That's cool though.


I also thought 2005 was epic, with the 2nd GOAT TV match imo (Eddie/Rey) and a bunch of awesome ones too in HBK/Shelton, Taker/Orton, Angle/Jannetty and Benoit/Regal. And to think I actually struggled with 05 at first :lmao

But regarding 2001, it's exactly the case you mentioned. Austin/Benoit was the blatantly obvious choice for Main Event. Greatest TV match ever and a top 15 match in the company's history imo. However, the sad thing is that every **** classic in TV for me that year either or both Austin and Benoit. Therefore, putting in the near ***** classic in Edmonton would've loaded the show, but then the rest of the undercard would've suffered from it I think. Therefore, I went with TLC III and Angle/Austin on Raw. Two ****+ matches > One near ***** match .

For 2003, again, I wanted Angle/Taker as my original Main Event. But then I thought "Brock had some incredible matches that year - unfortunely they were all for the WWE Title". Same for Angle, which is why I went against Brock/Benoit as well. Taker however had off memory one other great match on TV, that was the Cena one. So I rolled the ball with it. Plus, Brock/Angle is the greatest Iron Man match ever and a top 5 TV match ever imo, so yeah. A consistently great card above anything for me .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2009 one is flawed. Punk/Hardy cage is for the WHC... yet you have Undertaker/Jericho when Undertaker was the WHC in a non title match :side: .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Fuck technicalities, it wasn't a title match, therefore it doesn't matter :side: :lol

Or did you just say that because I don't have Taker in the Main Event/WHC match?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well the Punk/Taker WHC match WAS the best TV WHC match that year... :side:.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh, Cal and his sick blasphemy 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

All this reminds me, I need to post my Perfect PPV for 2003 now I finished posting 03 shows on my blog. Took me months to figure out because I was determined to include all the titles (except for women's because I NO'd those matches :lmao). In the end I had to switch one out for another High Profile match instead.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

awesome idea ATF

I will be able to do something like that in a few years when I actually watched older TV stuff without Jericho

2009 looks amazing


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The Fab Four said:


> So, do you think Brock had to count after each suplex he gave Cena? Surely it can't just be a coincidence, 16 suplex's, Cena with 15 titles. Seems dubious to me.
> 
> After watching this week's Raw, im damn sure Cena is winning TBH. That opening segment was fucking horrible with HBK/Hogan/Flair. Must really need their paychecks.
> 
> Don't get me started on the Cena/Wyatt's fiasco.


I didn't see the opening segment but it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out what the purpose of it was. Hogan being the only one to say Cena would win :lmao 

I think Brock is winning, but I think they'll have Cena keep beating the hell out of people the next few weeks with him channeling his inner beast. That will be easier with Brock not there. (Is Brock even showing up to the go home show?) Surely they wouldn't have Brock win the way he did only for him to lose it right back. Surely. 

I do think it's interesting that Cena is so sure of himself leading into NOC when then only offense he mustered in the Summerslam match was a few punches and shoulderblocks.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

2013 is super stacked. Nearly everything on there is four stars or higher.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Helmsley said:


> Surely they wouldn't have Brock win the way he did only for him to lose it right back. Surely.


*Insert Cena and Vince smilies*

Now watching the 02/24/97 episode of Nitro, featuring the stupendous Faces Of Fear/Jericho+Eddie match. :mark:


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Still meaning to get onto that Ziggler/Del Rio match, Naitch nominated. This will happen tonight (for real this time).



Flux said:


> So I've got tonight and tomorrow completely free, any suggestions/recommendations for stuff for me to watch? The more the merrier, the more varied the better


Pick and choose! Please 


*Akira Hokuto vs Manami Toyota (AJW 9/2/95)*







Spoiler: match review



Yeah, Toyota bumps off the ropes like a 5th day trainee but everything else was relatively great comparably to what you're to find on WWE or TNA programming. Hell, it even showed veteran mastership at times. The last time I saw botches being transitioned, mid-flow, into a different move in covering it up was one of the Casas' matches. One of. One. It's hardly ever done, and something I mark really hard for because it adds a realism to the product and my respect to their expertise. An expertise, too, that (in this match) reminded me so much of the Generico/Steen match-up from PWG's Steen Wolf. It, of course, wasn't as good but boy are people wrong in calling either match a spotfest. It's all about HATE.

Both women showed that they'd rather drastically shorten not only their careers but their lives, as well, in ensuring they wouldn't lose. I absolutely adored how they told a story both within their physical movements and their facial reactions. It really adds depth to the feud that they're portraying - an art lost on many wrestlers, sadly. While losing was a big priority in avoiding, victory was also not the aim of either wrestler. The victory was secondary to beating their opponent to an inch of their life in proving who was the alpha female. Hokuto could have left Toyota in a heap after the second table bomb but the sight of Toyota still clinging to hope was one she couldn't stand. Should they have mixed up their offence and not relied solely on the same table spot? Perhaps, but it was effective in portraying its brutality each time. The same goes for Toyota, too, in levelling Hokuto with two of her finishers instead of a more than sufficient single execution. Forget the rules, because these types of matches are your notable exceptions.

Hey, Chris Brown, what do you think of women being stiffed?















****** Casas, Blue Panther, Fuerza Guerrera vs El Hijo del Santo, Yoshihiro Asai, Gran Hamada (??/??/1990 WWA)*







Spoiler: match review



this was a wondrous respite from the Naito 2009 filth I was slogging through, considering the only bad thing here is Fuerza's mask. As far as novelty exhibitions go, I'm still more inclined to favour the touring Solar/Navarro show but frenetic, 90s "lucharesu" isn't too low below that; most especially when you have a collection of names as great as this.

I honestly went in expecting a lengthier Santo/Panther exchange, but was rather treated with some cool Hamada/Casas moments and absolutely breathtaking Santo/Casas spots. 1990 Casas is just on another level here, and he gives off this aura that his movement isn't limited by the same princicples of physics that other wrestlers are. While he looks like a soccer player who forgot half his kit at home, he wrestles with none of his talent left at the door.

While there are the usual faults to this style apparent within the match, in that certain spots appear too choreographed or forced, the match still maintains itself as a jaw-dropping spectacle, fresh some two decades later, without reaching too far into becoming a circus side-act attraction that a lot of high-flying exhibitions fall prey to.





*Tatsumi Fujinami © Vs Riki Choshu (03/04/1983)*
x6dv6d_tatsumi-fujinami-vs-riki-choshu-3-a_sport



Spoiler: match review



Very rarely do you see a match with a foundational phase that incorporates the nuances that this match told. From intricate details in the selling, that most would neglect, to the vocalisation of emotion, this match damn near had everything going for it and typifies exactly why I love watching Choshu wrestle. Hell, that isn't to say Fujinami didn't bring any of it, too, as both were absolute stars here. Its nuances aside, the foundation planted the legitimacy of threat that each wrestler's signatures held and the fight for supremacy never grew dull. The pacing flowed incredibly, with the "stalls" allowing for even heightened investment of interest when they flurried their defensive spurts and teased their signatures. Choshu locking in the Scorpion Deathlock onto Fujinami, only to have the condescending Ace clawing, in agonising pain, toward the ropes was an incredulous portrayal of Choshu's storied hopes in being seen as his equal.

The finishing stretch is where the beauty lies, however. While we're given a few neat nearfalls to whet our appetites, the final fall summarises the story so aptly. Choshu's lariat putting Fujinami away for a fall that had the champion kicking out a fraction too late finally cemented the returning heavyweight as the veteran's equal and, perhaps, better that day.





*Choshu vs. Killer Khan 31/07/86*
x93imv_20-riki-choshu-vs-killer-khan-aj-7_sport



Spoiler: match review



If it's any consolation I wasn't planning on my first pimpage being another Choshu match but as I was sifting through Dailymotion for a possible video the thumbnail of a man in an executioner's hood caught my eye. It just so happened it involved Choshu!  It also worked that Matt threw in a second review as it helped add some depth in how Choshu wrestles for me. Choshu's little slaps or cheap-shots during ropebreaks may have only incited a bark from Fujinami but it damn well incited the bite from Khan. What should have been a cheap advantage for Choshu turned into the motivation, rather, for Khan to become Choshu's executioner.

It was a beginning treat to see Choshu's prowess from a technical perspective in the other matches yet the Choshu here is the Choshu I want to see more of. Neither man pulls punches nor takes their time in jumping into the deep-end and the match fight just feels real because of it. Most turns in a match come from a capitalised spot and are hardly as brutal as the offence that came before it yet Khan missing a knee drop off the turnbuckle to the floor was undeniably crazy. Choshu's subsequent control sequence would be spattered with Khan's quasi-comebacks until a vicious throw into the post meant the only thing spattered now was Khan's blood. The vicious Khan was now seemingly dazed, confused as to the goings-on of that around him, and almost easy pickings for Choshu. But the clearly injured monster wasn't as easy to put down as it appeared. An ill-timed lariat finish-attempt turned the tides back against Choshu allowing for the successful execution of the double stomp that Khan had so eagerly hoped for earlier in the match. Yet, just as Choshu had underestimated his opponent, so, too, had Khan. The babyface was just too powerful for Khan to put away. Despite having spent every moment post the ringpost spot in a confused haze, this realisation spawned with the clarity of glass within his facial expressions and mannerisms - screaming and gesturing not only to the referee but also into the faces of the ringside fans who refused to buy his chances.

Outside of the brilliant brawling and selling, Khan's charisma is perhaps what most sells this match. I'm not sure if Rocky Romero models himself off of Khan but the incessant, maniacal screaming is pretty close (albeit a lot less annoying/more true to character with Khan). If you have fifteen minutes to spare, and I know you do, I implore you to watch this. They say third time's the charm, and that term cannot be more apt than it is here.






*Choshu vs. Hashimoto (1989-12-07)*
xxumpt_riki-choshu-vs-shinya-hashimoto-12-7-1989_sport



Spoiler: match review



The beginning quarter or so was reminiscent of the Legend Pro tag I had watched earlier today yet done right. It was all about STRANTH and perfectly captured Hashimoto's struggle to gain his status. The weariness of each other, especially when breaks were called by the ref, and the viciousness in offence really legitimised what was at stake here, too. I absolutely adored Hashimoto not only trying to negate the lariat by working on Choshu's arm but also having some glimmer of cockiness in hoping his opponent would submit. When Choshu simply continued to take the pain in his stride, Hashimoto grew angry and drove Choshu's face into the canvas with a vicious DDT.

What was probably most praise-worthy, though, was its spectacular pacing. It established itself early on and gradually built itself up until the monumental climax in which the entire crowd was eating out of the palm of their hands, myself included. The double lariats within quick succession offered perhaps the best selling of the entire match, with Hashimoto not only keeping Choshu's offense strong (despite the weakend arm) yet also put himself over as an incredibly tough bastard. His head and neck had taken a beating the entire match, and the final dragon sleeper was one of many, too. Yet, noting his determination to win, Hashimoto would have rather passed out than consciously secede a victory to Choshu. He was too far gone, however, and the transition to a pin brought the match to a quicker conclusion.




The last three matches are exceptional/borderline perfect and every bit why I love my Riki Choshu. The joshi match is there, as you guys brought up Toyota the other day, and ***** Casas' trios is there to suffice for any desires for sprint-styled exhibitions. No long, Lucha-heavy holds or "tropes", just flashy stuff. Bit of everything in these matches.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I will watch that lucha trio now if you dont mind :kermit

Yea was wondering when you would watch the Payback match


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

One again forgot what date Goldberg debuted on Nitro, just heard his music, got excited.

Twas Pat bloody Tanaka again lol.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

They just posted the Jeff Hardy doc on the Network...I smell yet another Hardy return to the WWE...

If TNA really does fold, I'd be cool with Angle coming back to wrestle 1 match, retiring, then getting the documentary/DVD set/HoF induction treatment. His only match should obviously be against Bryan, as he really shouldn't be in the ring anymore.

Jeff on the other handle, eh I don't know. If we were getting 2008-2009 Jeff Hardy I'd be all for it, but that was 5-6 years ago and I haven't seen a single match of his since he went back to TNA. I don't know if he still can go or not...has anyone checked him out recently? Isn't he doing a weird Willow gimmick? Meh.

Since I just watched the doc I might as well go rewatch one of his best matches, No mercy 2008 vs Hunter. Until Trips turned in that awesome performance against Bryan at WM 30, that was the last match I would point to where I thought Hunter was truly great. Let's see how it holds up. And of course I won't be able to resist watching Show/Taker too, as that's just the bees knees.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

This Nitro episode (03/03/1997) lol. Couple of weeks until Uncensored, and Piper is giving 'tryouts' to potential teammates in the upcoming WCW vs NWO battle at the PPV. Ended up picking two jobbers and John Tenta, of course that is not the final team, but fuck was it daft and pointless, Didn't exactly make piper look like a threat either as they kept getting the better of him, looked like he was on Coke too.

Im loving these Nitro's, but fuck that was bad. :lol


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

John Tenta, what an awful wrestler.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

LUTHER REIGNS was one of those guys too :lmao.

In the end the idea of Piper's team gets dropped completely :lmao.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> LUTHER REIGNS was one of those guys too :lmao.
> 
> In the end the idea of Piper's team gets dropped completely :lmao.


That's him. Was trying to think who it was lol, knew i recognised him.

Think at the PPV, Piper's team ended up being the Horsemen, Benoit and McMichael. The tryout Promo just made the idea look daft, and Piper more so TBH.

NWO are in the ring now, and Tony says "Where is Sting". Im like he is standing there, the bloke in the white face paint and black coat. You can't miss the fucker.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> FUCK LOGIC
> 
> 
> I'm with funnyfaces on this one. I guess it depends on how you use your star ratings, but I'd consider a DUD much worse than worthless. I mean a 0 literally adds nothing, but a DUD, to me, would be subtraction. dudn't matter tho b/c cal scale sux 'n' how do you rate a ppv when you don't even watch all of the matches on it???? ''NO''??? what is this ''NO''??? NEGATIVE ONE for something you didn't even watch???? Meanwhile shitty Austin/Undertaker match adds like 37 points????
> ...


this was fun

and I hope the bold is truly the best pun ever.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Thank goodness someone else loves the Mankind/Hunter cage match as much as I do, every time I watch it I come away scratching my head wondering why more praise isn't heaped on it. I can't think of a single Foley/Hunter match that is less than great, all of them rule the world and the SS cage match is no different. They also made the smart decision to keep it in that sweet spot range of 10-12 minutes so the intensity is sky high for the duration. Foley taking that cage door slam the way he did was just brutal, he said in his book it's the most painful thing in a match he's ever experienced, which says an awful lot considering, you know, Foley is a total psycho and endures more punishment in an average match than most people do in a lifetime.
> 
> I enjoy Bret/Taker as well, but same as you Foley/Hunter is my MotN


On a night Austin breaks his neck, Foley's head getting crushed by the insane steel cage door is what always makes me cringe more. _(seriously guys, have you ever noticed how brutal that damn blue cage was?)_

Believe the cage match went around 16 minutes. I should have timed the whole show.



Lazyking said:


> John Tenta, what an awful wrestler.


I call BS.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Lazyking said:


> John Tenta, what an awful wrestler.


Can't say I agree with that sentiment. From what I've seen of him, he's a pretty decent big man.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Flux said:


> So I've got tonight and tomorrow completely free, any suggestions/recommendations for stuff for me to watch? The more the merrier, the more varied the better


The Rockers v. The Powers of Pain 1/15/90
Chris Benoit v. Eddie Guerrero 10/20/97
Juventud Guerrera v. Kid Kash 1/6/06
Shinya Hashimoto v. Masato Tanaka 2/3/02
Rey Mysterio Jr v. Chavo Guerrero Jr (SuperBrawl 2001)
Doom v. Barry Windham/Arn Anderson (Starrcade 1990)


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I haven't seen all his work, but what I have seen, Tenta doesn't sell, meh expressions, and his offense is pretty weak. I want my big men to be badasses. He ain't it.

I could be proved wrong.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> The Rockers v. The Powers of Pain 1/15/90
> Chris Benoit v. Eddie Guerrero 10/20/97
> Juventud Guerrera v. Kid Kash 1/6/06
> Shinya Hashimoto v. Masato Tanaka 2/3/02
> ...



Add in Reno vs Vito and Chavo vs Helms from Sin 2001; Dustin/Steamboat vs Arn/Zybysko from COTC XVII; Bret Hart vs Dynamite Kid Capital Center Wrestling 1985.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

how long is Reno/Vito? might watch it right now.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> how long is Reno/Vito? might watch it right now.


8:41. Whatever happened to that list of wrestlers that you were meaning to check out and ramble about? Are you setting that aside for another decade? And have you been catching up on your Rusev? Have you finally watched Punk/Lesnar for that matter?

John Tenta is good. He and Hogan in particular had uncanny chemistry. Like Bossman and Hogan. A shame that the two Arn/Hogan matches in 96 weren't really that good. But eh, why did I expect otherwise? But John Tenta in the late 80s/1990 was solid. I think he had really good stuff with Randy Savage in WCW as well.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I did not like the Summerslam match. I was expecting Tenta to show more power. He was just there for Hogan to run into.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That Summerslam was saved by The Hart Foundation. I recently rewatched Warrior/Rude from that show. It was pretty bad. Boring and Warrior had no clue as to what he was doing. Nothing they did looked like it hurt and Rude's actions didn't exactly make sense. I think it only gets critically acclaimed because it was a Warrior match that wasn't a DUD. The real gem in their matchup was the year prior.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Royal Rumble 1998:

The Rock vs Ken Shamrock - ★★ (That swerve at the end was top level trolling, lol.)

Royal Rumble - ★★★ (Nothing special and a pretty average match. Plus the end is very rushed with 6-7 guys all getting eliminated one after another because they didn't do it in time.)

Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker - ★★★★ (Props to Shawn for continuing even though he injured his back just one minute into this.)

I see myself going through 1998 a lot faster than 97. Attitude is at full force and Austin is killing it every week, every show, every hour. Truly the GOAT.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

So much filler in that Rumble match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Make sure to skip every Marc Mero segment. Except for his match with Sable because that was funny. There is actually a lot of midcard stuff you can skip on RAW and PPVs. But the main event. Never skip that. Ever. Or any Vince McMahon segment. His evolution to madness is pretty wonderful considering that the Vince McMahon we all know was the angry boss that fired people and told them to kiss their ass. His tone of voice was actually very calm in the beginning and he had a hard time saying things like "you're fired".


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Marc Mero is fucking garbage. JR couldn't have been more right burying him in the Rumble saying he needs a charisma bypass and that fans care about Sable.

I always skip the filler midcard stuff. Couldn't care less about Legion of Doom, Headbangerz, Godwinns and the rest of the jobbers. Also don't care for Jeff Jarrett.

Skipping the main event would I never do. If you skip that, you might as well skip everything. AUSTIN might become my #1 favorite by the time I'm finished with every year.

I've also heard the 99 Royal Rumble is even worse than 98. This one was pretty uneventful and only highlights were Austin kicking ass and Foley showing up three times. Pretty reckless of him and Funk to hit each other in the head with stiff chair shots in the beginning, though. No point whatsoever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hogan vs Earthquake from SummerSlam rocks.

RENO VS VITO. Fun gem. I'd like to see more comments on it. Boys be clubberin.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I guess I'll take the bait and watch Reno vs. Vito as well even if I loathe both guys. I always remember Reno as the worst guy in my WCW EWR saves. DAT 32 BRAWLING RATING.

I liked the 98 Royal Rumble and Tyson's involvement was pretty fun. It was as predictable a Rumble as it can get, but the simplest moves can be the best ones. The next PPV (No Way Out in Texas) is awful though. This upcoming Smackdown has a better card with more starpower than that. Vader of all people had a bad match. The Godwinns wrestled. Grandmaster Sexay said some of the most racist crap I've heard. Main event had some fun moments and then some anti-climatic ones. Just watch the main event and maybe whatever The Rock and Mark Henry did in their match. You'll also notice during the Road to Mania that Undertaker didn't wrestle and that Austin disappeared for a week or two. The main event segment on RAW would switch between three or four different feuds. Kinda cool.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kane vs Vader is good. Taka vs Pantera takes MOTN & rules. I still haven't watched the main event in a very long time to have an opinion on it. War of Attrition wasn't a DUD, so that's a positive. The rest is blurgh. Tag team matches around that time for WWF. Recipe for disaster.

Whoops, forgot about Bradshaw vs Jarrett. That's a nice, fun match right there. Ok, so about half the show works it seems. Standard WWF/WWE stuff.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Really love Foley/HHH in the cage at Summerslam 97. 

Anyone have video of the :taker :ambrose match last year? I had no idea that happened. 

I'm going to Smackdown Tuesday. Pretty excited.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> That Summerslam was saved by The Hart Foundation. I recently rewatched Warrior/Rude from that show. It was pretty bad. Boring and Warrior had no clue as to what he was doing. Nothing they did looked like it hurt and Rude's actions didn't exactly make sense. I think it only gets critically acclaimed because it was a Warrior match that wasn't a DUD. The real gem in their matchup was the year prior.




Yeah summerslam 1990 is one of my worst ppvs rated so far. I'm a warrior fan and so Rude vs Warrior in a cage sounds good but its just bad. WArrior just looks lost in there. Warrior's promos ruled though if you really listen.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> 8:41. Whatever happened to that list of wrestlers that you were meaning to check out and ramble about? Are you setting that aside for another decade? And have you been catching up on your Rusev? Have you finally watched Punk/Lesnar for that matter?


Haven't been watching much wrestling this year, to be honest. I watched a couple Wrath & Mortis stuff and wrote about them, and started MITB 2010 but it was months ago and didn't write anything. I'll have to watch them again if I want to actually do a write-up.


John Tenta and Marc Mero were both good.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Warrior/Rude in a cage in 1990 was not very good. 

I did really enjoy Warrior/Rude at Summerslam in 1989.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Warrior vs Rude in the cage was good to me. Not great a la the year prior, but still, good.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I liked the 98 Royal Rumble and Tyson's involvement was pretty fun. It was as predictable a Rumble as it can get, but the simplest moves can be the best ones. The next PPV (No Way Out in Texas) is awful though. This upcoming Smackdown has a better card with more starpower than that. Vader of all people had a bad match. The Godwinns wrestled. Grandmaster Sexay said some of the most racist crap I've heard. Main event had some fun moments and then some anti-climatic ones. Just watch the main event and maybe whatever The Rock and Mark Henry did in their match. You'll also notice during the Road to Mania that Undertaker didn't wrestle and that Austin disappeared for a week or two. The main event segment on RAW would switch between three or four different feuds. Kinda cool.


Tyson didn't really do anything other than be there in the stands with SHANE.

I don't even know what the main event for the next PPV is, but I'll find out soon.

Shawn also didn't wrestle again until WM, right? Was clear that the Austin match would be his last yet he was not willing to drop the belt. What an egomaniac.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't think Shawn wrestled again either. He did have some really funny segments during the build-up of Mania. And of course, everything Tyson ruled. It's an absolute pain trying to find the Austin/Tyson segments online because WWE specifically took those down. Hopefully watchwrestling has them because their 2001 episodes do not have the infamous Trish Stratus "bark like a dog" segment. I doubt zep or anyone else has this video in hand, but for whatever reason, I need to see this one segment that I've never watched from that era.

Hmm, so Arn Anderson apparently lobbied against CM Punk back in 2007. I guess I have a new wrestler to hate. Finlay may have joined in too.

EDIT: Ah forget it. How can I ever dislike Arn Anderson? Especially after he had a good match with Renegade.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Arn vs Renegade is crap. 8*D


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I have no problems with John Tenta or Marc Mero. In fact I enjoyed quite a bit from Johnny B. Badd in the WCW days.

Warrior vs. Rude in the cage is good fun. Nothing too wrong with the match and had it gone longer than 10 minutes I think it could've been great. Love that double axe handle spot off the top.



MachoMadness1988 said:


> Really love Foley/HHH in the cage at Summerslam 97.
> 
> Anyone have video of the :taker :ambrose match last year? I had no idea that happened.
> 
> I'm going to Smackdown Tuesday. Pretty excited.


Don't expect much out of the match:






Have fun at Smackdown! Hope you see some good matches.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Watching :brock vs unk6 at Summerslam last year. Just wonderful. Maybe not the full ***** but real damn close. Probably my favorite match last year. That or :cena4 vs unk2 from the 2-25-2013 Raw. 




Jack Evans 187 said:


> I have no problems with John Tenta or Marc Mero. In fact I enjoyed quite a bit from Johnny B. Badd in the WCW days.
> 
> Warrior vs. Rude in the cage is good fun. Nothing too wrong with the match and had it gone longer than 10 minutes I think it could've been great. Love that double axe handle spot off the top.
> 
> ...


Johnny B. Badd was enjoyable no doubt. 

I think that is my biggest knock on Warrior/Rude in a cage is the length. It was like a Raw (errr Superstars) match. I did enjoy that spot as well. Rude could have been a muuuuuuuuch bigger deal in wwe. 

Thanks for posting the match. Not expecting much but I'm sure it's fun.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker vs Dean is good & interesting for only five minutes. I don't see how one can't expect much b/c it isn't long. Quality is all that matters. And I'm usually down w/matches that don't need a lot of time to be special. Dean Ambrose & Sheamus have been making that an art in WWE, tbf.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Titus and Ryback have done a great job with that as well. Titus even had a good match with Kofi this year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only Titus vs Kofi match I remember is the one where Kofi injured himself on his shitty offense. Which is so hilarious it may be considered good just b/c.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Rude could have been a world champion in WWE if it hadn't been for the face champion formula that was in effect. If Jake didn't have his problems, I would have made him champion. He was really over back then.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Dean Malenko vs Eddie Guerrero (WCW Saturday Nitro 06.28.1997) (Handheld House Show)*

x24qjk9

Saturday Nitro. Good match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*SummerSlam 2006*

People tell me this isn't an awful show... but oh my god the card ON PAPER appeals to me less than women with short hair. Aside from Foley/Flair. That's a smoking hot red head with long hair and big tits. It's the LITA of matches, I guess.


*Rey Mysterio Vs Chavo Guerrero*

Oh god we're starting this thing off with fucking CHABO GERRADO. I want to turn the show off already.

D'awwwww, nice touching video package of Eddie and Rey's friendship. They seem to have missed out those 4 or 5 months where Eddie wanted to destroy Rey and take his kid :side:.

"REY NOT SUCKING OFF ANYBODY" :lmao well done Cole.

They show a video package for Chavo and Eddie... and again miss out the HATRED~! part :lmao.

So, who loved Eddie more? Rey Mysterio, or Chavo Guerrero? There's only one way to find out...

FIGHT~!

And that's what they are doing! If they keep this up I might actually enjoy this match.

SPLAT~! That was Rey when he launched himself over the ropes and Chavo dodged. Rey looked to have fell about 8 feet at least! DAMN!

Mmmmm bacon sarnie. What a way to start the day!

Bah, Chavo teases a fucking POWERBOMB off the top rope to the FLOOR, but of course Rey counters, and we end up with that shitty "both guys jump off the ropes into the ring" spot that sucks. All that was missing was a table and it'd be a classic ECW moment :side:.

KEEP KHALI OFF TV sign :lmao. Remember when Undertaker/Khali LMS was supposed to be on this show? But WWE changed it to a SD match because they didn't trust Khali on live PPV? :lmao

So this match quickly went downhill and turned boring. So much so, Vickie Guerrero runs down to the ring screaming NO! NO! and slaps Chavo for being so shit :lmao. That's how I interpret it, anyway.

3 AMIGOS BY CHAVO BECAUSE HE HAS TO STEAL EDDIE'S MOVES TO GET A REACTION~!

3 AMIGOS BY REY AND THE FANS BOO HIM~! :lmao

:lmao Vickie tries to climb onto the apron, but grabs the ropes to help her and "accidentally" knocks Rey off the ropes :lmao.

BRAINBUSTER~!

FROG SPLASH~!

Chavo wins :lmao.

This had its moments but overall mostly bored me.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Oh god, Booker T and Edge backstage. They both claim to be the best champion or something. I don't care. Nobody cares.


*The Big Show Vs Sabu - ECW Championship Match*

:lmao they show clips of the ladder match between RVD and Sabu that was for the #1 contendership here tonight. What a train wreck that match was :lmao.

So the ECW title is being called the ECW WORLD title. Once Show lost it I think it lost it's importance with the company . Though titles do tend to do that when LASHLEY holds them 8*D.

Funny that Booker and Edge were arguing over who was the best champion, meanwhile the ACTUAL best world champion is right here! Big Show's ECW reign > Edge & Booker T.

Sabu wasting no time here, just crushing Show with chair shots! But they do fuck all to the giant, and Sabu ends up getting tripped up and lands face first on the chair he set up :lmao. Show shows everyone just how useless a chair is against him by CRUSHING IT with his foot.

Fans: "WE WANT TABLES"

Big Show: "YOU'RE NOT GONNA GET EM!"

FUCK ME. Biggest Fall Away Slam EVER. Sabu cleared most of the ring and fell to the outside!!!

:lmao Sabu climbs the ropes with a chair... AND DROPS IT :lmao. The fans groan as he has to retrieve it to do the spot he wants to do :lmao.

BIG SHOW THROUGH A TABLE~!

:lmao Joey says we have 16,000 people chanting ECW... then the camera switches to a crowd shot with ONE GUY chanting ECW :lmao.

Holy shit, BIG SHOW ACTUALLY LANDED HIS SECOND ROPE SPLASH!!! That's the equivalent of Flair coming off the ropes successfully!!!

:lmao Big Show puts a table across the steel steps as a platform... and Sabu runs over and jumps on it and... the table slides out from under him :lmao. I think I'm warming up to Sabu. His constant botches are fucking HILARIOUS :lmao.

DDT THROUGH THE TABLE~!

CHOKESLAM THROUGH THE TABLE~!

Big Show retains.

So this was actually really fun. Sure, Sabu is awful, but he's hilariously bad more than anything :lmao.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


FAP FAP DIVAS BACKSTAGE~! They are all acting like complete bitches to Layla who just won the diva search. :lmao gotta love how even ASHLEY is snubbing her :lmao. Turns out they were just messing with her.

THEY ALL GET IN THE SHOWER TOGETHER AND SPANK LAYLA'S BARE ARSE~!


*Hulk Hogan Vs Randy Orton*

ORTON KNOWS BEST~!

:lmao at Orton having to RKO Hogan on a car so all he had to do was literally bend over slightly because he's too damn old to take a real bump. MAE YOUNG AT LIKE 80 YEARS OLD TOOK AN RKO LIKE A FUCKING CHAMP.

TRISH SWALLOWS sign :lmao.

HOGAN CROTCH CHOPPING RIGHT IN ORTON'S FACE~! Oh man, Hogan totally should have joined DX :lmao. An OAP version of the original NWO :lmao.

Man, it's weird seeing Hogan like this. He's OLD... but he still has quite a bit of hair... and he just looks... strange .

So is Hogan the heel here? Because he's raking the back of Orton, BITING HIS FACE, raking his eyes and just punching the shit out of poor Randy while ALSO threatening the referee!

HOLY SHIT HOGAN TOOK A BACK BUMP~! I was gonna make a joke about a drinking game based on back bumps taken by Hogan in this match that would leave you sober at the end... but he just took a flat back bump!!!

RKO~! He took an RKO too! It looked shit but he took one.

1...2...3!

Oh no Hogan's leg was on the rope.

People shouldn't hit finishers on Hogan. It just makes him HULK UP.

Why does nobody leave the ring and let Hogan calm down when he starts Hulking Up?

:lmao Orton has to sell a big boot for about a minute while Hogan panders to the crowd before actually hitting a Leg Drop :lmao.

Orton lost. LOL.

Yeah this wasn't good.

Ha, it's that fat fan with the giant Hogan tattoo on his back that was invited into the ring at Backlash 2005 after the HBK/Hogan tag match!

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


FAP FAP FAP MELINA. She uses reverse psychology on Foley to get him ready for the upcoming match.


*Ric Flair Vs Mick Foley - I Quit Match*

:mark: finally something I wanna see!

:mark: Foley going right after Flair's FACE :mark:. Elbows, knees and even a trash can! Flair has a black eye, either from the build up to this match... or he got drunk and fell down in the bar the night before .

:mark: Flair's selling. "OH GOD, ARGGGHHHH" :mark:

MR SOCKO~! That didn't take long lol.

Foley gives Flair a chance to end the match now, but when he doesn't, he says he gonna make him SUFFER. He wraps Mr Socko with barbed wire and...

TESTICULAR CLAW BY FLAIR~!

FLAIR STEALS BARBED WIRE SOCKO~! CHOPS WITH IT~!

:mark: Foley takes his signature knee bump into the ring steps and flips over and it looks better than probably ever!

This match was originally supposed to take place way back in 2004, but Flair made some unflattering comments towards Mick on an interview and Foley decided against working with someone who didn't respect him.

FLAIR IS BLEEDING~!

So if Foley's chest from those barbed wire chops. I watched TNA Hardcore Justice 2014 last week and Abyss got hit in the STOMACH with a 2x4 with NAILS STICKING OUT and there wasn't a drop of blood in sight :lmao.

BARBED WIRE BOARD TO THE FACE OF FLAIR~!

Crazy to think that Flair hated Foley for being a "glorified stuntman" yet is more than willing to have a match like this .

THUMBTACKS~!

I really wanna check out their TNA Last Man Standing match again now too. Though I always say I wanna check out certain matches when I write these and I NEVER DO :lmao.

BARBIE~!

Flair has officially gone into Crazy Old Man mode and is beating the SHIT out of Foley with Barbie!!! :mark:

We had a fucking ECW TITLE MATCH FEATURING SABU on this card and yet the Flair match is the most violent thing we get . TAKE THAT, ECW!

Foley takes a bump off the apron and cracks his skull on the floor! Melina and a trainer come down to help and tell the referee he can't continue! But Flair gets on the mic and says this isn't a "LAY DOWN ON YOUR ASS MATCH" and demands Foley continue!!! :mark:

I'LL KILL YOU TOO YOU LITTLE BITCH~! :lmao

BARBED WIRE TO FOLEY'S EYE~!

MELINA THROWS IN THE TOWEL! But Flair doesn't accept that!

Foley finally quits when Flair threatens to hit Melina with Barbie!

Good GOD is this an awesome, brutal, bloody brawl! HATE~! all the fucking way! :mark:

*Rating: ****1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 6*


*Booker T Vs Batista - World Heavyweight Championship Match*



You know how people say wrestling is like dancing when it looks fake as hell? Well, Booker T and Batista were just dancing :lmao. Clothesline > Duck the clothesline > clothesline > duck the clothesline > spin kick > catch the kick. Looked about as real as the wwe diva's tits.

JBL terrifies me by saying this match could go 30 minutes :|.

Damn, they're actually acknowledging the fight they had at the SummerSlam photo shoot! Everyone always says Booker T kicked Batista's ass, yet Finlay on his 2006 Timeline shoot said that was a load of bollacks. Finlay doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would lie, so fuck knows what actually happened.

:lmao the crowd cheered for Batista because it looked like he was gonna do a Batista Bomb... but instead did a suplex and they booed the fuck out of him :lmao.

Sharmell jumps on Batista as he tries to hit a Batista Bomb, and Booker gets DQ'd :lmao.

This was awful.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


DX are talking to someone that we don't see. They tell the mystery person that Vince called Umaga the biggest, baddest and best MONSTER in WWE. Bet you can't figure out who they were talking to :side:.


*Shawn Michaels & Triple H Vs Vince & Shane McMahon*

I swear they showed the same video with different music for all the DX Vs McMahon matches in 06. There is that one clip of DX in the production truck and they switch to "camera 10" where we see Vince piss on The Coach. WHY THE FUCK IS THERE A CAMERA IN THE MALE TOILETS?!?! :|

So Vince and Shane ain't tough enough to fight DX on their own... THEY NEED MALE CHEERLEADERS TO HELP~!

:lmao DX buries them in seconds.

Oh look, that isn't all! Mr Kennedy, REGAL AND FINLAY :mark:. Finlay is fucking killing everyone :mark:. Aaaand then DX of course win the 3 on 2 battle. Right after taking out 5 guys at once...

THE BIG SHOW~! Shouldn't they have just like, sent EVERYONE AT ONCE from the start? Rather than giving DX a chance to fight them all individually basically?

Yey everyone has recovered and are attacking DX :mark:. Except the Spirit Squad who... seem to have literally disappeared. WHERE THE FUCK DID THEY GO?!?!

The Smackdown stars are laying the SMACKDOWN on HHH on the floor. Get it? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

CHOKESLAM TO HHH THROUGH THE ANNOUNCE TABLE~!

And now the McMahon's come down to the ring and maybe the match can ACTUALLY START now? 

Guess I should forget everything that just happened, don't wanna base my rating on things that don't count 8*D.

:lmao worst clothesline every by Vince.

Lol, JR calls Shane the Heir-apparent to WWE. Meanwhile the REAL Heir-apparent lays motionless on the floor after being chokeslammed through a table...

Poor Shane. At least he's out on his own and doing really well for himself. Fuck the WWE, he don't need it! That being said, I do wonder how things would be in the company right now if SHANE had the power HHH currently has. Now that's an alternate time line I wanna visit!

:lmao HHH tries to get back in the ring, so Shane baseball slides him, and HHH launches over the Raw announce table and lands on JR, who just throws him off to the floor :lmao. And then acts all concerned and says he needs medical attention .

:mark: Vince and Shane doing tag team finishers from the past :mark:. DEMOLITION~! HART FOUNDATION~! LOD~!

:lmao HBK kicks out after taking all 3. Way to bury all those old tag teams!

HBK starts to make a comeback after taking all that punishment, and makes the hot tag to a guy who has been dead for the entire match thus far :lmao.

Fuck me what have I been eating? I just farted and good god I nearly choked!

Oh hey Umaga has shown up. SAMOAN SPIKE TO THE GAME~!

Before he can do any more damage though, KANE shows up. Because DUH he was the person DX talked to earlier.

SHANE SETTING UP COAST TO COAST WITH A TRASH CAN~!

SUPERKICK~! HBK intercepts Shane with a fucking SUPERKICK~!

SUPERKICK INTO A PEDIGREE TO VINCE~!

DX win.

This was a ton of the fun. The stuff before the match and everything during the match. Me likey long time.

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Edge Vs John Cena - WWE Championship Match - If Edge Is DQ'd, He Loses The Title*

Bah, I really don't wanna watch this. Cena in 06 was mostly miss, and Edge wasn't that great either most of the time. Together? Never liked their chemistry.

LITA FAP FAP FAP how the fuck do her tits stay in her top? I mean seriously? Does she tape them in place? Velcro? I WANNA KNOW.

:lmao at the lame "IF EDGE WINS WE RIOT" sign, meanwhile the rest of the crowd are chanting CENA SUCKS .

Best part of this is that we are in BOSTON, basically Cena's hometown :lmao. EVEN THEY HATE HIM~!

Interesting things that have happened so far: 0. And we only have 5 minutes of the show left.

It hasn't been some awful pile of turd like Batista/Booker though. It's just been a match. That was there. And happened. With stuff. 2 jobbers on Superstars could do almost the exact same match and nobody would care.

LITA THREATENS TO HIT CENA WITH THE TITLE SO EDGE CAN ESCAPE THE STFU, BUT EDGE TELLS HER NO BECAUSE IF HE GETS DQ'D HE LOSES THE BELT~!

So if Edge can't get DQ'd, how is he gonna win? With Brass Knucks, apparently :lmao. BECAUSE THOSE ARE LEGAL~!

F-U to Lita. Fuck me, Cena is a CUNT.

BRASS KNUCKS TO THE FACE~! EDGE WINS. HA.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 9*​


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Steve Austin/Bret Hart 1996-1997 Promo Playlist:* http://www.dailymotion.com/playlist...in-bret-hart-1996-1997-promos/1#video=x24ql1b

Up until WM13. Finally created a Playlist lol.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Can Cal or Hayley do a PPV ramble for a TNA PPV maybe? Like Turning Point 2005 or something from that time period?

Basically the time when Joe was killing everyone :mark:

And really curious to see how Cal rates some Jarrett matches  Double J- The real king of kicking out at 2 :banderas


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

RAVEN said:


> And really curious to see how Cal rates some Jarrett matches  Double J- The real king of kicking out at 2 :banderas


im watching some Nitro's atm, and i do wish Jarrett would fuck off, even the crowd want him to just go away. he has just joined the Horsemen too.


----------



## Biblet2014 (Jul 11, 2014)

Wait are Nitros on the Network now? if so cool!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Biblet2014 said:


> Wait are Nitros on the Network now? if so cool!


No idea, i havn't got the Network.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Great review of SS 06, Cal, although I didn't expect you to crap on Edge/Cena that hard. Goddayummit. I guess either Judgment Day or Vengeance next, right?

Oh and for those you saw my TV match cards, I'm now compiling the cards from 1993 to 1999. 1993 looks WAY, WAY better than I ever expected tbh. And then, I MAY be moving to ripping off Cal and do PPV's only


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Everyone steals my ideas :side:.

Think I'll post my 2003 Perfect PPV today. Then work on editing a video for www.bigcal.co.uk. And maybe some more Mario Kart 8 too. Already finished the last 100CC cup I needed to do (3 stars on EVERYTHING. Nothing but first place for me), so now I need to move on to the final 150CC cups :|.

Might do No Mercy 2006 next. Since I wanna watch NM, SVS and Armageddon in order, I think it's best I split them up with Backlash, Judgment Day and Vengeance in between them, that way I'm not doing them one after the other. BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE STUPID. OR SOMETHING. I DON'T EVEN KNOW ANY MORE. I swear it feels like I'm never gonna run out of 06 PPV's :lmao. I have SIX left to watch? Think it's because I still really remember the SD shows from that year so well despite doing my SD 06 project years ago . And I watched Backlash 06 earlier this year too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

For people asking about Nitro, there is most of 1997 here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCHyXwAA4CnQjSuk2MV_67w/videos
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC52oc5n3p_3xVlJInpFE6ig/videos


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Flair's trash talk in the Foley match is amazing :lmao Never laughed so hard at such a hate filled match. I watched a number of Summerslams last year sometime and that show was difficult to sit through, with the exception of Flair/Foley. DX/Mcmahons/McMahon's hit men was okay, I guess.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SummerSlam 2006 is kinda easy to watch for me. Dunno why, but that's how it felt last time. Don't think it's a bad show either, just average throughout.

Also rewatched Reigns vs Orton last night and it's better now than the first watch. Still a carry job with Orton doing 95% of the work but to Reigns' credit, he doesn't take away from the match. He does his part with no errors and that's all could be asked from him. Still annoys me that the match didn't end after that epic RKO, though.


----------



## Biblet2014 (Jul 11, 2014)

The Fab Four said:


> For people asking about Nitro, there is most of 1997 here:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCHyXwAA4CnQjSuk2MV_67w/videos
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC52oc5n3p_3xVlJInpFE6ig/videos


Wow dude thanks! I found another channel that has a mix mash of old WCW WWF and ECW
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrfSVOSm4EiSyzMG46jeRdQ/videos may review some of these shows lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, I'm done finishing the TV match only cards from the 90's. And it was quite difficult. Quite REALLY difficult. Goddamn sucky match quality in some years :lol

Pick your poison:


Spoiler: 1993



Pre-show match
Yokozuna vs. Jim Duggan
Superstars 2/6

WWF Tag Team Championship match
The Steiner Brothers (c) vs. The Quebecers
Raw 9/13

Jerry Lawler vs. Owen Hart
Wrestling Challenge 7/25

Razor Ramon vs. The 123-Kid
Raw 5/17

Randy Savage vs. Doink The Clown
Raw 8/2

Intercontinental Championship match
Shawn Michaels (c) vs. Marty Jannetty
Raw 7/19

The Undertaker vs. Bam Bam Bigelow
Superstars 3/7

WWF Championship match
Bret Hart (c) vs. Headshrinker Fatu
Raw 3/1

Loser Leaves Raw match
Ric Flair vs. Mr. Perfect
Raw 1/25





Spoiler: 1994



Pre-show match
Bob Holly vs. Chris Kanyon
Raw 12/19

WWF Tag Team Championship match
The Quebecers (c) vs. The Headshrinkers
Raw 2/5

Matt Hardy vs. Nikolai Volkoff
Raw 5/23

Bam Bam Bigelow & IRS vs. Doink The Clown & Tatanka
Raw 8/18

Women's Championship match
Alundra Blayze (c) vs. Bull Nakano
Raw 8/1

Owen Hart vs. The British Bulldog
Sunday Night Slam 8/11

Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon
Raw 8/1

The Undertaker vs. Jim Neidhart
Superstars Of Wrestling 10/18

WWF Championship match
Bret Hart (c) vs. The 123-Kid
Raw 7/11





Spoiler: 1995



Pre-show match
Over The Top Rope match
King Kong Bundy vs. Mabel
Raw 1/30

Shawn Michaels vs. The British Bulldog
Raw 3/6

Sid & Tatanka vs. The Headshrinkers
Raw 6/19

Goldust vs. Savio Vega
Raw 10/30

The Undertaker vs. Jeff Jarrett
Raw 5/29

WWF Tag Team Championship match
The 123-Kid & Bob Holly (c) vs. The Smoking Gunns
Raw 1/23

Women's Championship match
Bull Nakano (c) vs. Alundra Blayze
Raw 4/3

No Holds Barred match
Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart
Raw 3/27

WWF Championship match
Diesel (c) vs. Bam Bam Bigelow
Raw 4/24





Spoiler: 1996



Pre-show match
Jeff Jarrett vs. Hakushi
Raw 2/5

Intercontinental Championship match
Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. Marc Mero
Raw 10/21

Vader vs. Ahmed Johnson
Raw 5/27

The Ultimate Warrior vs. Goldust
Raw 5/27

WWF Tag Team Championship Raw Bowl match
The Smoking Gunns (c) vs. Owen Hart & Yokozuna vs. Razor Ramon & Savio Vega vs. The 123-Kid & Sycho Sid
Raw 1/1

Jake Roberts vs. Jerry Lawler
Raw 10/14

Steve Austin vs. Mankind
Raw 11/18

Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty
Raw 7/1

WWF Championship match
Bret Hart (c) vs. The Undertaker
Raw 2/5





Spoiler: 1997



Pre-show match
Goldust vs. Crush
Raw 2/3

Falls Count Anywhere match
Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. Cactus Jack
Raw 9/22

WWF Tag Team Championship match
The Legion Of Doom (c) vs. The New Age Outlaws
Raw 11/24

Ken Shamrock vs. Vernon White
Raw 4/7

Shawn Michaels vs. Vader
Raw 11/24

The Undertaker vs. The Rock
Raw 12/22

Light Heavyweight Championship match
TAKA Michinoku (c) vs. Tajiri
Raw 10/20

Street Fight
Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart
Raw 4/21

European Championship match
Owen Hart vs. The British Bulldog
Raw 3/3





Spoiler: 1998



Pre-show match
Ken Shamrock vs. Marc Mero
Raw 8/24

WWF Tag Team Championship Fatal 4-Way match
The New Age Outlaws (c) vs. The Godwinns vs. The Headbangers vs. Truth Comission
Raw 1/12

Val Venis vs. 2-Cold Scorpio
Raw 5/18

Goldust vs. Owen Hart
Raw 7/8

Intercontinental Championship Triple Threat match
The Rock (c) vs. Triple H vs. X-Pac
Raw 7/27

The Undertaker vs. Vader
Raw 7/13

Falls Count Anywhere match
Mick Foley vs. Terry Funk
Raw 8/18

Women's Championship match
Sable vs. Jacqueline
Raw 9/21

WWF Championship match
Kane (c) vs. Steve Austin
Raw 6/29





Spoiler: 1999



Pre-show match
Test vs. Joey Abs
Raw 7/5

No Holds Barred match
Bradshaw vs. Ken Shamrock
Smackdown 4/29

Steel Cage match
Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys
Raw 12/13

Chris Jericho vs. The Road Dogg
Smackdown 8/26

Hardcore Championship match
Al Snow (c) vs. The Big Bossman
Smackdown 8/26

X-Pac vs. Triple H
Raw 3/29

Women's Championship match
Ivory (c) vs. Mae Young
Raw 10/11

The Brothers Of Destruction vs. Steve Austin & The Big Show
Raw 7/12

WWF Championship Ladder match
Mankind (c) vs. The Rock
Raw 2/15



1997 wins the show for me.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> SummerSlam 2006 is kinda easy to watch for me. Dunno why, but that's how it felt last time. Don't think it's a bad show either, just average throughout.
> 
> Also rewatched Reigns vs Orton last night and it's better now than the first watch. Still a carry job with Orton doing 95% of the work but to Reigns' credit, he doesn't take away from the match. He does his part with no errors and that's all could be asked from him. Still annoys me that the match didn't end after that epic RKO, though.


Since they are continuing this feud to NoC it makes ZERO sense to me why that match didn't end with the epic RKO. That was the high point of the match, it wouldn't make Reigns look bad since he just got caught out of nowhere, and it would make Reigns eventual win at NoC that much sweeter. They should have had that same standard match at SS with Randy winning after that epic RKO. Then they could do a Street Fight at NoC with Reigns winning. They could even do a slick finish like Reigns making a big come back on Randy, Roman grabs a trash can lid, tosses it at Randy's face, Randy catches it and before he knows what's happening Roman is jumping through the air super man punching the trash can lid into Randy's face and KO'ing him for the 1-2-3. Randy's awesome jelly legs sell would put him over like a million bucks.

Wish WWE would think things through when they book. If you have a young guy like Reigns against establish former world champ, don't just give him the quick win in their first match if you are continuing the feud. Make him work for it and overcome obstacles to earn the victory. A win against Orton should be made to mean something. Thats just basic wrestling 101 shit and they always screw it up.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

This is the last one i watched:






The one with the Piper 'Uncensored tryouts'. Next one is a Spring Break episode (03/10).


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Starting Starrcade 1990 and right off the bat, Heyman gem, talking about Tom Zenk (ugh) and Bobby Eaton

"It's the Z Man who's been hiding in tag team competition for so many years. Beautiful Bobby was in tag team competion because he's the greatest tag team wrestler in the history of our sport and now he's gonna prove that he can be a great singles wrestler."

I don't think Heyman has made a more truthful statement of opinion in wrestling.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Since they are continuing this feud to NoC it makes ZERO sense to me why that match didn't end with the epic RKO. That was the high point of the match, it wouldn't make Reigns look bad since he just got caught out of nowhere, and it would make Reigns eventual win at NoC that much sweeter. They should have had that same standard match at SS with Randy winning after that epic RKO. Then they could do a Street Fight at NoC with Reigns winning. They could even do a slick finish like Reigns making a big come back on Randy, Roman grabs a trash can lid, tosses it at Randy's face, Randy catches it and before he knows what's happening Roman is jumping through the air super man punching the trash can lid into Randy's face and KO'ing him for the 1-2-3. Randy's awesome jelly legs sell would put him over like a million bucks.
> 
> Wish WWE would think things through when they book. If you have a young guy like Reigns against establish former world champ, don't just give him the quick win in their first match if you are continuing the feud. Make him work for it and overcome obstacles to earn the victory. A win against Orton should be made to mean something. Thats just basic wrestling 101 shit and they always screw it up.


Actually, if this week has told us anything, the feud is gonna be discontinued. Reigns is now feuding with Rollins and Kane and they are supposed to have a tag match with Ambrose as Reigns' partner for NoC. If that's the case, thank God for that because I couldn't stand seeing Orton job to this clown any more.

Hope that means they wanna build Orton up for a Brock match by protecting him from any further losses to Reigns.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

How long until Kane is in a mask again then? Im already over tired if seeing him now, he needs to take a break IMHO.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I don't see the point in doing Rollins and Kane/Reigns now even as a stop gap til Ambrose gets back. Their not gonna put over Rollins strong and Reigns doesn't need to be feuding with over done Kane.

I think Reigns/ Orton will go until Hell in a cell.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm actually fairly certain Brock vs. Randal will happen at Survivor Series. There isn't really anything left for Orton to do in the Authority, especially since Rollins pretty much took his role.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Fab Four said:


> How long until Kane is in a mask again then? Im already over tired if seeing him now, he needs to take a break IMHO.


Kane is the definition of GEEK at the moment. Can't take anything he does seriously because they've destroyed him so badly ever since he got unmasked. He's the Big Red Jobber.



PGSucks said:


> I'm actually fairly certain Brock vs. Randal will happen at Survivor Series. There isn't really anything left for Orton to do in the Authority, especially since Rollins pretty much took his role.


It should. It will be in Randy's hometown which makes it the perfect place for it to happen. PPV is big enough for it and it's a dream match. Not to mention the storyline calls for it as Randy has been overlooked as the "face of the WWE" and Authority have put all their eggs in the Lesnar basket now.

Orton is also getting cheered by the crowd again so a face turn is pretty much the next step.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Your Orton pack finished downloading yet, C2D? Mine's been since yesterday. Been seeding like a MOTHERFUCKER!

So glad you went with Bret vs. Fatu for '93, ATF. I love that match more than most. My only change would be using the HBK vs. Duggan Lumberjack match for '93 so you could go with Jannetty/Doink 2 out of 3 falls. Would have to change the whole rest of the card too... but whatever. 

Luger vs. Diesel or Luger vs. Crush should be in either one of the earlier years. I don't see any sign of either one of them (referring to Luger and Diesel).

EDIT: Sad to see Savage vs. Yoko for the belt missing too, but I obviously know why it had to be left out.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Ha, I wish. That motherfucker is still stuck at 13% and right now it's not even active.  _(actually it just went up in speed for a second then went down to zero)_


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Damn, only 13%? Good luck to ya pal.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching the 03/10/1997 episode of Nitro. Piper is in the ring with Okerlund and his team. Just finished shooting on WWF lol, mentioned Goldust too. :lol


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Kane is the definition of GEEK at the moment. Can't take anything he does seriously because they've destroyed him so badly ever since he got unmasked. He's the Big Red Jobber.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm all on board with Brock taking on Orton IF, and only if, it's at Survivor Series in St. Louis. The only reason I was ever not in favor of that match was because I feared it would cause Brock to loose all his heat and end up getting cheered. Facing Randy in his hometown is the perfect solution. All WWE needs to do is pump up the hometown angle in the build, but not let Randy change his character at all, and everything should go smoothly. Randy might be getting a few more cheers these days, but you can bet if they did Brock/Orton in Chicago or New York or somewhere with an avid fan base that Brock would get the cheers and that wouldn't be best for business. I want Brock to be the baddest guy ever then have Bryan come back and deliver everyone's #1 dream match.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

FINALLY finished Jericho's 2004. PPV matches were pretty subpar but there were lots of good to great TV matches.

Favourite match of his was: 

Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit & Edge vs. Batista & Randy Orton & Ric Flair (WWE Monday Night RAW, 8/2/04, Six-man Tag)

Favourite PPV match was against Christian @ WM.

2005 next, this one shouldn't take too long.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I believe that's the Elimination Tag you're talking about, DoubtGin. Which rules too, probably his best match all year long imo too. And it's only a top 10 Raw 2004 match for my estimation (I'd say it's about on par w/the badass 8-man tag between Team Benoit and Evolution).

And Corey, I wanted to use the Jannetty/Doink match too, but I figured what the fuck, the HBK/Jannetty match is really good too and it actually brings a title to the card, so I'll give Doink something else. And Savage/Doink ain't a bad choice at all imo, especially considering Savage's in-ring appearances that year were kinda limited. There were other choices like Bret/Bigelow and Yoko/Savage too, but in the end I went with those few. I had no references on Luger/Crush or Luger/Diesel (never even knew they existed or were good tbh ).


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Chrisitan w/Trish vs Jericho is all kinds of fun.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Flair in the 05 Rumble :lmao

edit: was the finish a botch? it seemed weird Batista eliminated Cena after that in that fashion


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Uncensored 1997 next up for me. Probably wait until tomorrow now,


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Awesome SS '06 review, Cal. DX/McMahons really is one hell of a ride. Nothing perfect but really fun.

Has everyone seen DA BIG GUY's promo from the hospital bed? I can't wait until he's back.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It's funny to see Brye being positive in regards to Ryback because I remember you hating on him back in 2012. Same could be said for many others, though. It's always nice when people catch on to something that you liked from the beginning when everybody else hated it. 

Now I finished the Raw after Royal Rumble 98. lol'd @ Shawn trolling the audience and posing as Undertaker and didn't expect the Tyson/Austin confrontation to happen this early. But one question that has been bugging me for a while. Why does Raw constantly restart with the intro after the first hour? Every show they do the intro twice for whatever reason.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> It's funny to see Brye being positive in regards to Ryback because I remember you hating on him back in 2012. Same could be said for many others, though. It's always nice when people catch on to something that you liked from the beginning when everybody else hated it.
> 
> Now I finished the Raw after Royal Rumble 98. lol'd @ Shawn trolling the audience and posing as Undertaker and didn't expect the Tyson/Austin confrontation to happen this early. But one question that has been bugging me for a while. Why does Raw constantly restart with the intro after the first hour? Every show they do the intro twice for whatever reason.


Haha yeah, I couldn't stand him when he debuted. But ever since he's been able to have personality in his character he's been great! It's definitely happened to me with some other wrestlers too. I used to go back and forth on Matt Hardy like 4 times a year. With Ryback I think it was the circumstances that he was pushed really fast in 2012, didn't get much mic time and didn't really get to be himself. And I think he's improved a ton in the ring.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Wish WWE would think things through when they book. If you have a young guy like Reigns against establish former world champ, don't just give him the quick win in their first match if you are continuing the feud. Make him work for it and overcome obstacles to earn the victory. A win against Orton should be made to mean something. Thats just basic wrestling 101 shit and they always screw it up.


b/c Orton is a nobody and Reigns beating him works in a simple kayfabe sense. It's quite blatant. WWE will probably only continue the feud b/c Orton would have zero left to do. But that's his career now. Nothing left.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> b/c Orton is a nobody and Reigns beating him works in a simple kayfabe sense. It's quite blatant. WWE will probably only continue the feud b/c Orton would have zero left to do. But that's his career now. Nothing left.



I'm sorry but I just can't agree with that sentiment. Even if you hate Orton these days, he isn't a nobody in the kayfabe sense. He was the Undisputed WWE WHC going into Mania just 6 months ago. Outside of Cena he's the second biggest name on the current roster (Bryan probably would have surpassed him if not for the injury but that's another story). I think it benefits Roman as a face a lot more to have to work to overcome an obstacle rather than taking a beating for nearly an entire match then pulling out the win right at the end. What I would have had happen is have Reigns really start picking up steam at the end, but do a ref bump and have Randy hit Roman with a chair or something. Then they could do that RKO out of nowhere spot for Randy to win. This both creates sympathy for Reigns, something he currently doesn't have, sensibly sets up a Street Fight rematch at NoC, and makes his final victory seem more earned and thus that much sweeter.

Maybe I'm just outdated in my thinking but I believe for Reigns to really succeed as a face, he needs sympathy. Right now there is absolutely nothing sympathetic about him. Orton cheating him out of victory at SS would have definitely helped in that regard, and like I said I might be naive but I think a win over the current #2 guy should be made to mean something.

Part of why Ambrose is over like gangbusters right now, along with his magnificent character work and ring performance, is that when the Shield split happened he got a LOT of sympathy. Rollins subsequent actions and the whole way that feud was built created even more sympathy for Ambrose, and as a result he's the most over guy on the roster these days.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

A win over Orton present day means close to nothing

Kayfabe is dead, and he has been booked as an afterthought/ second fiddle since the origin of the whole authority angle, now he is even more of a "spoke on the wheel" . Orton's biggest supporters understand this


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

There is no hate whatsoever. There is only fact. Assuming I made the comment I did out of dislike _(which I don't even feel, btw)_ is biggest sign naivety of them all. Orton was only there to play off his namesake & lose. Assuming anything else set you up for defeat. That's my point.

Being a "number two" in a company is like TNA being number two in North America. A made up title to give fantasy balance behind whomever or whatever isn't the top success.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Choke2Death said:


> But one question that has been bugging me for a while. Why does Raw constantly restart with the intro after the first hour? Every show they do the intro twice for whatever reason.


They promoted the 2nd hour calling it the "War Zone".
Nitro would have a countdown to the 2nd hour, starting it off with another pyro display and the Nitro theme song in the middle of matches :lmao.



Eva Marie said:


> A win over Orton present day means close to nothing
> 
> Kayfabe is dead, and he has been booked as an afterthought/ second fiddle since the origin of the whole authority angle, now he is even more of a "spoke on the wheel" . Orton's biggest supporters understand this


Agree

Even though he's shown more personality and put on some quality matches with Bryan, i saw him as a placeholder in the Authority angle. I'd be shocked if he doesn't break away from the Authority by the end of this year. For a guy looking to reclaim his spot as the face of the company he looks ridiculous standing beside Triple H when Lesnar has the HW title and Rollins is Mr.MITB.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Brye said:


> Awesome SS '06 review, Cal. DX/McMahons really is one hell of a ride. Nothing perfect but really fun.
> 
> Has everyone seen DA BIG GUY's promo from the hospital bed? I can't wait until he's back.


Ever since Ryback has shown his personality, he's been absolutely gold every time. I hope he returns and can show his personality on WWE TV. He'll get over huge.

From live experiences, even as a heel he was VERY good at engaging the crowd, even when he was just managing Axel.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Any form of Ryback is good to me. I have fun w/em. The six man in Vegas ruled & showed me how much I liked it when crowds went ape for him. Punk vs Vince was gold & then it got even better when Ryback came out in the end and the fans were going bonkers. Ah. Fun, fun, fun.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

In one year, Ryback went from being almost universally despised (outside of a few nutters in this thread) to being almost universally adored. I too have started to enjoy Ryback's work once he got to develop a personality (his bully/Big Guy self), and his in-ring ability also improved a lot as time went by, maybe I could even say that Axel helped him in that matter. When I hear people saying that atm Ryback > Reigns (which is a pretty comparable duo btw), I have to agree with them. Ryback was much (and apparently may still be) more over than Reigns could ever hope for, and at the peak of his popularity he was getting the biggest pops in arenas bar nobody, and he's also more talented both inside the ring and especially on the mic, has a much cooler character (Reigns I don't really know what gimmick does he have anyway, is he pretending to be a Hound of Justice despite the Shield having died?) and it seems people legitimally want to get behind him. DA BIG GUY WILL BE MISSED :ryback

Meanwhile, poor Curtis Axel who one year ago was another Paul Heyman big project will be in a jobber limbo :lmao


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

*Alberto Del Rio vs Dolph Ziggler (Payback 2013)* - I don't remember much of Del Rio's face entrances, but he's sure hamming it up here. For all intents and purposes, he's rather over. Well, if his name was RVD. It took me a while to realise what was making me feel uneasy about this match's front. There's no shine, and these guys are wrestling their reversed roles, already. Ziggler gets this comeback, with the usual too-fast-to-count punches in the corner, and it's terrible but otherwise Del Rio's manhandling the guy. Dude's a good cocky shmuck, and that face he pulls after Big E's ejected is wondrous. I'm not sure if he's getting booed because the crowd are apathetic toward him (most likely) or not, but he's embellishing their hatred well to the point where the crowd pops for a fucking headlock by Ziggler when he takes advantage of Del Rio's distracted self. _A headlock_. I'm not much buying into Ziggler's performance, here, and his bumping is too chaotic (comparative to that of how Regal or, even, Harper had sold earlier this year) but, credit where it's due, he had me fooled last year watching this fresh. Perhaps feeding lines where they aren't intended, but the botched fame-asser leading to a two-count and Ziggler grabbing onto the referees pants, almost in tears, made for a nifty scene. That sold his plight well. Del Rio's own two-count is followed in similar character fashion, with the Mexican going all crazy eyes, leading to him zoning in harder onto Ziggler's neck and head. Watching this back, I'm rather interested in going through his other matches, as he's so far from the "good wrestler but boring character" criticism I've seen labeled against him. His smart-talk, posturing and dickish tactics are awesome, to be frank. Kicking AJ's dropped title into the face of a tech-guy is a big plus in my books. Finish sequence kind of runs flat, and Ziggler's fighting spirit pose before eating the kick was corny, but they ended this at the right moment. The match accomplished its goals, got Ziggler his sympathy and Del Rio looked like a million dollar heel. SI~!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*WCW Uncensored 1997:*

*No Disqualification Match for the WCW United States Championship: Dean Malenko vs. Eddie Guerrero (c)* ****1/4 _Apart from the un-needed fucking NWO run in finish, this ruled, loved it. Eddy hasn't turned heel yet, but the crowd were pro Malenko here._
*Psicosis vs. Ultimate Dragon* ***1/4
*Martial Arts Match: Mortis vs. Glacier* ** _Kinda fun for what it was lol. There was no 'Finish Him' graphic at the end though._ 
*Strap Match: Buff Bagwell vs. Scotty Riggs* *
*Tornado Match: Harlem Heat vs. Public Enemy* *1/2
*Return Match for the WCW World Television Championship: Rey Mysterio vs. Prince Iaukea (c)* * _Mysterio covers for 1, 2, as the bell rings at 11:59 for a lol worthy 15 minute time limit draw. WCW exec's
must have just got fed up too and ended it early. There own fault for pushing Prince fucking Ikea, was could have gotten Regal/Rey on PPV. Wankers. I love Rey, but not even he could carry Ikea man. Why are they pushing this guy, only because he came from the Power Plant?_
*Triangle Elimination Match: Team Piper vs. Team n.W.o vs. Team WCW* **1/2 _Fun enough._

PPV is best remembered for a GOAT Sting moment:

*WCW Uncensored 1997 Ending*

x24tilz

:mark:

And the DDP/Savage fued really kicked off now too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> *Alberto Del Rio vs Dolph Ziggler (Payback 2013)* - I don't remember much of Del Rio's face entrances, but he's sure hamming it up here. For all intents and purposes, he's rather over. Well, if his name was RVD. It took me a while to realise what was making me feel uneasy about this match's front. There's no shine, and these guys are wrestling their reversed roles, already. Ziggler gets this comeback, with the usual too-fast-to-count punches in the corner, and it's terrible but otherwise Del Rio's manhandling the guy. Dude's a good cocky shmuck, and that face he pulls after Big E's ejected is wondrous. I'm not sure if he's getting booed because the crowd are apathetic toward him (most likely) or not, but he's embellishing their hatred well to the point where the crowd pops for a fucking headlock by Ziggler when he takes advantage of Del Rio's distracted self. _A headlock_. I'm not much buying into Ziggler's performance, here, and his bumping is too chaotic (comparative to that of how Regal or, even, Harper had sold earlier this year) but, credit where it's due, he had me fooled last year watching this fresh. Perhaps feeding lines where they aren't intended, but the botched fame-asser leading to a two-count and Ziggler grabbing onto the referees pants, almost in tears, made for a nifty scene. That sold his plight well. Del Rio's own two-count is followed in similar character fashion, with the Mexican going all crazy eyes, leading to him zoning in harder onto Ziggler's neck and head. Watching this back, I'm rather interested in going through his other matches, as he's so far from the "good wrestler but boring character" criticism I've seen labeled against him. His smart-talk, posturing and dickish tactics are awesome, to be frank. Kicking AJ's dropped title into the face of a tech-guy is a big plus in my books. Finish sequence kind of runs flat, and Ziggler's fighting spirit pose before eating the kick was corny, but they ended this at the right moment. The match accomplished its goals, got Ziggler his sympathy and Del Rio looked like a million dollar heel. SI~!


I liked Dolph in it _(quite a bit from what I recall; easy babyface role to get his sympathy)_ but god Del Rio was on another fecking level during that. Holy shit the goosebumps I get when I remember his face after getting Langston ejected & the kick of AJ Championship. Damn. Where in the world did this scenario come from? That match was the biggest coup WWE had up their sleeve in who knows how long. Emotion during it & post-match was .... I can't even put into enough proper words. So I won't even try. But it flipped me on my head to the point where my lips met my ass on the way down as a way of conceding to WWE for a tremendous caliber moment actually worthy of making you want to head to the water cooler and discuss a WWE PPV.

-----------

God. Uncensored 97. Well, Uncensored PPVs in general. Terrible. Hate that Ultimo vs Psychosis match a ton. Just friggin end already. You guys aren't going to find chemistry if the first ten minutes had zero. Dusty freaking out on a specific weapon _(COMMODE LEEEEEEEED)_ is the only redeeming aspect of the droll weapons match. Main event is a joke of a mess. Or a mess of a joke. Does it matter? Far and away the highlight of that show was Mortis vs Glacier having a good match when everyone laughs at the "Martial Arts" stip. That didn't even come into play, luckily. It was just a good match between the midcard talents. Glacier had himself a nice 97.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

In regards to the Piper tryout's and Uncensored, just found this:



> According to the WON of the time,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wondered why that tryout promo was such a mess TBH.

The Nitro 'Tryout' segment might still be going on, 16 years later. It just died and died and died again. :lol

At least Bischoff took alot of risks i guess.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Posted The Perfect PPV - WWE 2003 on my BLOG~! and holy crap, the CAL SCALE reading is off the charts! HOW THE FUCK DID 2003 MANAGE THAT?!?!

Gonna give either JD or NM 06 a watch tonight methinks.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Rah said:


> *Alberto Del Rio vs Dolph Ziggler (Payback 2013)* - I don't remember much of Del Rio's face entrances, but he's sure hamming it up here. For all intents and purposes, he's rather over. Well, if his name was RVD. It took me a while to realise what was making me feel uneasy about this match's front. There's no shine, and these guys are wrestling their reversed roles, already. Ziggler gets this comeback, with the usual too-fast-to-count punches in the corner, and it's terrible but otherwise Del Rio's manhandling the guy. Dude's a good cocky shmuck, and that face he pulls after Big E's ejected is wondrous. I'm not sure if he's getting booed because the crowd are apathetic toward him (most likely) or not, but he's embellishing their hatred well to the point where the crowd pops for a fucking headlock by Ziggler when he takes advantage of Del Rio's distracted self. _A headlock_. I'm not much buying into Ziggler's performance, here, and his bumping is too chaotic (comparative to that of how Regal or, even, Harper had sold earlier this year) but, credit where it's due, he had me fooled last year watching this fresh. Perhaps feeding lines where they aren't intended, but the botched fame-asser leading to a two-count and Ziggler grabbing onto the referees pants, almost in tears, made for a nifty scene. That sold his plight well. Del Rio's own two-count is followed in similar character fashion, with the Mexican going all crazy eyes, leading to him zoning in harder onto Ziggler's neck and head. Watching this back, I'm rather interested in going through his other matches, as he's so far from the "good wrestler but boring character" criticism I've seen labeled against him. His smart-talk, posturing and dickish tactics are awesome, to be frank. Kicking AJ's dropped title into the face of a tech-guy is a big plus in my books. Finish sequence kind of runs flat, and Ziggler's fighting spirit pose before eating the kick was corny, but they ended this at the right moment. The match accomplished its goals, got Ziggler his sympathy and Del Rio looked like a million dollar heel. SI~!


Awesome write up, even though it seems like I like this a whole ton more :lol ( I think this was my MOTY runner-up last year :hmm

Echo what Cody says, loved it and completely didn't expect this type of match on from the wwe front. The emotion/atmosphere/aura were all just magically. Also take great joy in remembering before this most wrote this match off and were deeming Punk/Jericho the only match too see and putting all the eggs in that basket, while I thought this could have been a darkhorse. Look how it turned out

Say that was both guy's career performances in the wwe ( Well idk the Bryan BR 2010/ Punk raw match maybe for Ziggler)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I love in the Angle/Brock match at Summerslam, when Angle kicks out of a pin attempt, Brock turns around and say's "What the fuck". Beautifully picked up by the camera.  _Think that is the match._


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Ziggler/Del Rio from Payback is awesome, and a top match of 2013 no doubt. Both guy's top individual performances. Dolph absolutely shined turning into the sympathetic face, selling the offense from Del Rio superbly and making every shot look like his death towards the end. Del Rio did his part well in being a total dick coupled with his usual offense, but Ziggler was the star. Awesome match all in all. Watched it a month back and think I bumped it to ****1/4. MOTN at Payback.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Nah, Del Rio outshined Dolph for me given how he looked smug, maniacal and desperate in the same time with all his sick facials and mannerisms and his new-found agression when he ruthlessly targeted Dolph's concussion. Dolph of course played the sympatethic babyface awesomely, but this was Del Rio's moment to shine afaic.

I do kinda think that the "sequel" to Payback, their MITB match, is a little overrated (God I LOATHED that ending), but I still think it's great nonetheless.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I say without Dolph's selling, it's your standard Del Rio match with a some extra goody from him. In fact, that's pretty much what you get in all their other matches. Del Rio definitely deserves some praise as it was better than normal from him, but Dolph's selling and efforts are what took the match from being good/great, to an awesome top match of 2013 (which is a very stacked year as it is).

To each his own though. Don't know if I'd put any singles Dolph or Del Rio matches above it from either guy. Ziggler has that awesome match with Punk in 2011 and Bryan from BR 2010, where Del Rio has... well actually I'm not too sure he was anything close. He's had plenty of great matches, but nothing else on that **** that comes to me automatically.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I swear i wish there was a video compilation of WCW fans throwing rubbish in the ring lol. Scott Hall just had a cup of something smack off his head, great shot.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I think I'm going to rewatch some early 2014 PPVs. Royal Rumble to see how Wyatt/Bryan holds up plus for the lulz of the Rumble match, and EC to see how Shield/Wyatts holds up from the ****3/4 I gave it on the first two watches.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Neither man performed better than the other in that Payback 2013 match. And I don't know why we care about who had the star performance when both men looked incredible. It's as simple as that. They had a match on the RAW after MITB that was great. Ziggler's babyface turn. Oh man. Dude felt like a star. Really over, carried himself like a big deal, and even brought in strong viewership. Shame that the powers that be didn't like him because he should have been the one to dethrone Del Rio, preferably in a ladder match that they were supposed to have back at Extreme Rules.

Was the 1997 war games match the comically bad one? Or was it 98?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

'98 wasn't it, the one involving Ultimate Warrior. '97 was when Hennig turned against The Horsemen. _i think_


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Almost over with Jericho's 2005. And holy crap, Jericho basically lost every match.

He is 0-7 for PPVs in this year and his only singles wins are against: Chris Benoit (back in January), Simon Dean (x2), Maven, Sylvain Grenier (x2), Daivari and Chad Patton (a referee).

Some solid TV matches and I actually like all of his PPV matches (*** and more).

The best matches he was in (not necessarily because of him, though) were the EC match and the MITB match.

Only have to watch both matches against Cena (SS and RAW). Both should be decent.

2007 next. He has like three matches that year though


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Eddy Guerrero vs Dean Malenko (No DQ) (WCW Uncensored 1997)*

x24ukxp

Excellent match here. Highly recommended.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I genuinely think I love Dolph/Del Rio more than anybody - Makes my top 25 matches in company history. Yeah there's a LOT of pimped matches that I'm yet to see, but I'm fairly comfortable in saying it will stay there.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

So yea, Jericho's 2007 was really short.

3 matches, best one was the title match against Orton. That upcoming Jericho/JBL feud doesn't seem too interesting (I must say I haven't seen ANY Jericho matches from 2007-2012 so I'm excited about what's coming next).

That's it for now.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You haven't ever seen at least Punk/Jericho from WM 28? Damn dude :jericho


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Nope .

Ahh, I actually have seen the WM match against Piper/Snuka/Steamboat and Edge because that was on some Network special. The latter was disappointing (still not horrible).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jericho/Mysterio from The Bash '09 i fucking adore. :mark: What was their other match on PPV, Extreme Rules?


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

^-according to profightdb, they had three PPV matches in 09 (Judgment Day, Extreme Rules, The Bash)

I'm so stoked about the HBK & Mysterio feuds :mark: :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Rey PPV matches were all consecutively better than each other. Judgment Day was great, Extreme Rules was amazing and The Bash was a fucking classic. As far as the HBK ones go, the reactions on these are very divisive in this thread, but I still enjoy the great bulk of them .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks, don't think i've seen their JD match either. 

EDIT: Thanks ATF, ill watch them in order the weekend i think.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Flux said:


> I genuinely think I love Dolph/Del Rio more than anybody - Makes my top 25 matches in company history. Yeah there's a LOT of pimped matches that I'm yet to see, but I'm fairly comfortable in saying it will stay there.


:hbk

Nah, I love it as well, if we are talking about those star rating would be in the high ****1/2 for me, so different and unique 

Remember they had a Main event match in Feb 13 that was really good


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Extreme Rules between Jericho & Mysterio regressed and it is a shame. Used to feel that was an amazing match. Judgment Day & The Bash are the two top prizes. All the matches are at the very least good, so it was ace no matter which you watch. TV included. Segments & build matches from Smackdown & Superstars were all cherry too.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea only rey/y2j match from their series that was meh is EX 09, they have a Smackdown "beat the clock" which is really good


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I would like to see the Punk/Rey PPV matches too soon, been meaning to for ages.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Didn't even know a Judgment Day match between the two exists. Extreme Rules is fine but The Bash is definitely the best they have.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Punk vs Mysterio Capital Punishment. :mark:

Haven't seen their Armageddon 08 match in such a long time. Hmm.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Fab Four said:


> I would like to see the Punk/Rey PPV matches too soon, been meaning to for ages.


Capitol Punishment fucking OWNS.

Then you have Armageddon which is very good, WM 26 which is possibly the GOAT 5 minute match ever, Extreme Rules which... honestly I don't remember : and Over The Limit which despite the blood stoppage annoyance is excellent and their 2nd best match together behind CP imo.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Their best match is the Feb smackdown one, MOTYC


Never seen the Armageddon match for some reason


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Whats Rey/Jericho from LE Melee, BATB and Souled Ou 98 like? Nevet seen them but I wouldn't be surprised if their chemistry even back then was superb.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Even though Punk vs Mysterio is six minutes. So that's an amazing accomplishment. They work so fast it feels like an entire minute never happened.

Flux: Short, but fun. Both matches, tbf. BATB match kind of feels like a million bucks b/c it was six minutes of coherent action. Even that was a rare treat on that crummy PPV.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Souled Out match was pretty bad, but that was because Mysterio was in no shape to wrestle. Really happy that they had a real feud in 2009. That IC feud felt bigger than the WWE title feud at the time. Mysterio and Jericho loved working together too, especially that ER match according to their podcast episode together.

There's a television match that Punk and Rey in 2011 that is really good. Actually everything between those two rule. Actually everything these two do rule.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Spoiler: smackdown



Swagger/Rusev is awesome tonight. Main event was pretty fun too.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The Souled Out match was pretty bad, but that was because Mysterio was in no shape to wrestle. Really happy that they had a real feud in 2009. That IC feud felt bigger than the WWE title feud at the time. Mysterio and Jericho loved working together too, especially that ER match according to their podcast episode together.
> 
> There's a television match that Punk and Rey in 2011 that is really good. Actually everything between those two rule. Actually everything these two do rule.



Souled Out is the one where Rey is wrestling with a busted knee, right? I remember thinking that match wasn't so bad, it was just annoying that the announcers make it clear Rey has an injured knee and Jericho doesn't do ANYTHING during the first 5 or so minutes to target the knee. He only starts going after it at the very end, it's like a ridiculously stupid way to do a match. But it's still relatively entertaining because Jericho was such a good heel during this time period.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Spoiler: smackdown
> 
> 
> 
> Swagger/Rusev is awesome tonight. Main event was pretty fun too.


Another one? Well hell. Why not. I'm down.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Extreme Rules between Jericho & Mysterio regressed and it is a shame. Used to feel that was an amazing match. Judgment Day & The Bash are the two top prizes. All the matches are at the very least good, so it was ace no matter which you watch. TV included. Segments & build matches from Smackdown & Superstars were all cherry too.


Wait, wait, wait... I wasn't watching in 2009, but they built stuff up on Superstars? They don't even do that on Smackdown anymore. 

The only match from the Jericho/Mysterio series I watched was the one on Jericho's DVD, which I loved.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Its a shame Mysterio is shot, he could have great matches with the young pups on the roster now, even if he was in 2009 form.

Wrestle War 1991

Beautiful vs. Brad Armstrong.. choice little match. That leg drop is everything by Eaton.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

RatedR10 said:


> Wait, wait, wait... I wasn't watching in 2009, but they built stuff up on Superstars? They don't even do that on Smackdown anymore.
> 
> The only match from the Jericho/Mysterio series I watched was the one on Jericho's DVD, which I loved.


Superstars mattered for a few months in the start. _(First show even had Undertaker work it.)_ Much like Main Event did. Always that shiny glow on a new show before it gets cast aside.



Lazyking said:


> Its a shame Mysterio is shot, he could have great matches with the young pups on the roster now, even if he was in 2009 form.
> 
> Wrestle War 1991
> 
> Beautiful vs. Brad Armstrong.. choice little match. That leg drop is everything by Eaton.


Leg drop is how you say....beautiful. Simple pun. Idc. EATON.

and Brad Armstrong was always a neat undercard/jobber talent. I liked him.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

These Attitude Era podcasts are pretty awesome. Can't believe that I neglected them for so long. Led me to revisit a show from late 1998.


*In Your House XXVI: Rock Bottom*

Supply & Demand vs. D'Lo Brown & Mark Henry: *DUD*

The Headbangers vs. Kurrgan & Golga: *DUD*

Owen Hart vs. Steve Blackman: ****1/2*

The J.O.B. Squad vs. The Brood: ***

Jeff Jarrett vs. Goldust: ***

New Age Outlaws vs. The Big Bossman & Ken Shamrock: *DUD*

The Rock vs. Mankind: ***1/2*

Steve Austin vs. Undertaker: *DUD*​
-The Venis/Godfather duo was a serious dream team. Too bad they never did anything significant. I wanted a match where D'Lo Brown does something funny, Val Venis does something smooth, and Mark Henry's girth plays a major factor in this match. What I got was nothingness for six minutes until a Mark Henry splash.

-Terrible. This feud made no sense because the Insane Clown Posse kept switching alignment for no reason. Poor Golga. Deserves better.

-Sooo good. Owen Hart comes in with the pop of the night. Blackman plays the makeshift heel here and he shows some terrific emotion while Owen doesn't stop riling up the crowd. Blackman's offense was picture perfect in execution. Love how vicious his kicks are here and DAT BOW AND ARROW LOCK. Really cool how Blackman tries to deviate from a solid gameplan to target Owen's leg, but Owen reverses into an enziguiri and then starts kicking Blackman and doing more leg-based offense. Owen even does high-flying aerial offense! How can you not love face Owen? OWEN REVERSES A SLEEPER INTO A DRAGON SLEEPER! And then Blackman pulls out the damn sharpshooter! So many close calls and hype moments.

And then they ruin it with that stupid ending. Just let Owen win the damn thing and keep it simple, stupid.

-Bad. Brood don't do a cool entrance. Everything they do is boring except for Too Cold Scorpio and Edge's high spots. Michael Cole's commentary is super bad here.

-Fuck Jeff Jarrett. When he's on offense, nothing nice ever happens. Goldust's crowd interaction here is really good. Liked the Curtain Call setup. The guitar stuff was terrible and clearly in the view of the referee. Sucks.

-Typical New Age Outlaws match. Heel works over Road Dogg for 15 minutes that feel more like 15 hours. Billy Gunn comes in and dominates. Bossman and Shamrock don't do anything good except for a kinda cool ankle lock. Only reason this match happened was to put Billy Gunn over, and only Billy Gunn. Considering how dead this Canadian Attitude Era crowd was, they failed.

-I always hated this match between Rock and Mankind, but I think I kinda enjoyed it. At least the back end of it. Beginning started off kinda good with rapid punching, but then it turned into generic AE brawling. And then Mick Foley started wrestling like a heel for some reason. The meat of the match had no direction whatsoever outside of a nasty Foley bump. Then Rock does some hilarious stuff with the commentary which leads to a fun finishing segment. Rock looked really strong here by kicking out twice in close calls. Mankind's piledriver on the ref ruled. 

Ending was terrible. I can see what they were trying to pull off, but it made no sense whatsoever. Passing out = submission victory. And even if it technically wasn't, it still made Rock look weak. Also didn't help that Rock no-sold everything after the match. I didn't like how they overbooked the crap out of it instead of just letting them fight. They already ran a screwjob the prior PPV, so the booking here felt redundant and didn't actually progress the story.

-Shit. Main event showed off everything wrong with the buried alive match. You can't do anything in the ring because why would you? So these two decide to brawl in the crowd, but it was super boring. Apparently something in this match weighs 3000 pounds. Yeah, this is just dumb. Bad punches from two guys that normally punch well. The gimmick didn't allow them to do anything good and the crowd was dead for an Attitude Era main event because of how bad this stipulation was.

Filler PPV through and through. Wasted this show on a hot Vancouver crowd. I don't know why a PPV named after Rock didn't have him in the main event. Too many tag team matches. Only two matches here felt PPV-worthy. No wonder nobody ever talks about this show.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

But the Goldust match is super thrilling if you believe or desire to see Debra strip.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Debra is hideous. And she gave her services to the one and only Mongo McMichael. Icky.


----------



## Mike Smalling (Sep 30, 2005)

Currently watching CM Punk vs John Cena from MITB 2011.

Wow @ the crowd, and lol @ Michael Cole getting smacked down by Lawler for attempting to label the audience "a partisan hometown crowd".


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only person to get smacked down harder would be Johnny Ace in about 33 minutes.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What was the Punk/Cena match like on Raw after Summerslam. Think its 08/28.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It was like fucking great. A hybrid of MITB and SS in terms of action, + a badass Canada atmosphere (CANAD-EH).

The major Cena/Punkers (not counting the 2009, early 2011 and late 2012 ones): MITB > Raw 2013 > NOC > SS > Raw after SS 2011 >>>>>>>> Raw 1000


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Mr. Jay-LK said:


> Currently watching CM Punk vs John Cena from MITB 2011.
> 
> Wow @ the crowd, and lol @ Michael Cole getting smacked down by Lawler for attempting to label the audience "a partisan hometown crowd".


I think "The King" one upped Cole less than a year later with "listen to the universe chanting for Sheamus" lol. Two of the absolute most mindnumbingly stupid things ever said on anything ever broadcast.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Fab Four said:


> What was the Punk/Cena match like on Raw after Summerslam. Think its 08/28.


Second best match they had that year. Great stuff.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Second best match they had that year. Great stuff.


Great. Just realised i have some 2011 TV matches on a disc, including the Rey/Cena match i still havn't watched. 



Spoiler: 2011 TV Matches List



Alberto Del Rio vs. Rey Mysterio (SD 1/7/11)
Daniel Bryan vs. The Miz, (RAW 2/14/11)
Albert Del Rio vs. Christian (Cage Match) (SD 3/18/11)
Albert Del Rio vs. Christian (SD 3/25/11)
Randy Orton vs. Christian (SD 5/6/11)
Rey Mysterio vs. John Cena (7/25/11)
Alberto Del Rio vs. Rey Mysterio (RAW 8/15/11)
Alberto Del Rio vs. Daniel Bryan (8/19/11)
CM Punk vs. John Cena (RAW 8/22/11)
Dean Ambrose vs. Seth Rollins (FCW 9/18/11)
John Cena, CM Punk, Mason Ryan, Sheamus, Kofi Kingston & Evan Bourne vs. Alberto Del Rio, Christian, Jack Swagger, Cody Rhodes, Dolph Ziggler & David Otunga (RAW 10/3/11)
Dean Ambrose vs. William Regal (FCW 11/6/11)
Daniel Bryan vs. Mark Henry (Cage Match) (SD 11/29/11)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Fab Four said:


> Great. Just realised i have some 2011 TV matches on a disc, including the Rey/Cena match i still havn't watched.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You know you have to see Cena vs Mysterio asap, man.

Only match there that doesn't earn the :mark: from me is the drab Christian vs Orton match. Rest, Oh man. Enjoy yourself. Some of the best stuff from the year is in there. Great to see Del Rio vs Danielson make it. Always felt like I was one of its biggest supporters. and I LOVE THAT TWELVE MAN TAG.

If only Mysterio vs Miz or Mysterio/Riley vs Miz/Swagger Tornado Tag would have made it. Then some more of my favorites would have completed the list. Can't complain. Well, only about not having the trilogy for Rollins vs Ambrose, haha. b/c watching the matches in order makes it even sweeter.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hitman, don't listen to Cody regarding the Orton/Christian stuff, it's all good - especially Over The Limit which is fanfreakingtastic (though it's not TV) .

But yeah, that 2011 set looks phenomenal. Shame that there ain't no terrific gems like Cara/Bryan I (aka 2006's indys wet dream match in Mistico/Danielson), Punk/ADR/Mysterio, any Kidd/Barreta match, Orton/Ziggler or Miz & Swagger/Rey & Riley, but it is what it is. 2011 is fucking great in terms of in-ring quality, not 2013 good but close.

Speaking of which, I need to see a match that I haven't watched since like 2012 and that is ADR/Punk from SVS. Remember it being really fucking good on last watch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Most of those weren't any good. That set was better off. 8*D

people who actually cared about a Danielson vs Mistico match, wtf.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yes they were, they were all quite good. You're just too blind to appreciate them 8*D

And I did care about Danielson/Mistico. I remember that Mistico was actually halfway decent through the 2000 decade, even if I'm not the biggest Lucha follower but I did recognize his work, and Daniel Bryan Danielson is Daniel Bryan Danielson, so I did care. And the hundreds of indy maniacs sure as hell cared too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only person I've seen pitch that scenario before. Not saying that makes up the public, but I'm not gonna claim it was something people wanted to see either. :draper2

idk who even pitched Danielson vs Lucha stars often. Feels like a peculiar mix. Even more when he was common in working Japan & Europe over Mexico at the time.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Mistico is balls. Took ***** Casas for him to look good in a match.


----------



## Mike Smalling (Sep 30, 2005)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Most of those weren't any good. That set was better off. 8*D
> 
> people who actually cared about a Danielson vs Mistico match, wtf.


I'm no indy hater, but I prefer the mainstream-theater of the WWE to the arthouse of the indies. (Hey, that rhymed.) 



ATF said:


> Hitman, don't listen to Cody regarding the Orton/Christian stuff, it's all good - especially Over The Limit which is fanfreakingtastic (though it's not TV).


Completely agree, only I think Christian should have gone over. (@ Summerslam, or in the feud overall, preferably in a ladders match.), I'm not a big fan of Mark Henry, never was. I didn't like him beating Orton for the title a month (?) later, like at all. A very inferior talent in comparsion to Christian and Orton. Either Christian or Orton should have gone on to have a long reign with the title after the end of their feud.

And lol @ Barrett not walking out of MITB 2011 without one briefcase, totally bummed that the guy is injured AGAIN. Dude looks like the real deal walking into the MITB match, and I absolutely have no problem with a guy like him being in the main event at all, WWE should focus on people like Ziggler, Swagger, Barrett and Cesaro and not indulge part-timers who left the combat-sports business out of their own volition. (I'm looking at certain show-biz people, and NOT Brock. Yeah, I'm ready to go there.)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It's fairly obvious that Christian should've gone over the feud, but I guess Vince thought his face was ugly (dat blue dot story) and didn't wanna have him on TV, and thus took the title from him. Shameful world we live in.

And I can't say I'll loathe your opinion since you're fan of who you want to, but dude, Mark Henry is one of the company's best storytellers easily. One enjoys what he wants but Henry is quite great for my books.



Hayley Seydoux said:


> Only person I've seen pitch that scenario before. Not saying that makes up the public, but I'm not gonna claim it was something people wanted to see either. :draper2
> 
> idk who even pitched Danielson vs Lucha stars often. Feels like a peculiar mix. Even more when he was common in working Japan & Europe over Mexico at the time.


Trust me, people did wanna see it. Out there, for quite a few people, in his prime Mistico was the best in the world, not just lucha, bar none. Yes, I'm not kidding. And of course, Danielson has always been relatively known to the public as one of the world's best too. Add in to the fact that those two were, wheater we like it or not, indy megastars before they reached the WWE and you have some indy followers' big dream match if you can call it like that. And I too wanted to see it just because really. I did knew both of them, Danielson moreso, and was interested to see them go at it if just for the collision of styles.

Plus, the match itself (which happened on SD in May 2011 iirc) was actually pretty good, by far Mistico's best in WWE imo.

EDIT: Got that 2011 month wrong


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Danielson was booked by AAA once, back when he was a "massive" Indy name. Of course he was used in a throwaway spotfest multiman cruiser teaming with Evans, Teddy Hart and Angelico. Match barely lasted any length of time, too.

And so ended his trip to Lucha Land.


Cesaro has worked Solar and a couple other names in Chikara events. Wonder if they gave Danielson any good spots
Skayde, Navarro and Black Terry would be instant buys if they did. HAYLEY DID THIS HAPPEN?!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So yeah, a while ago I finished rewatch ADR/Punk from SVS 2011. What I think about it is... usually outsiders give it ****+ ratings, I've even seen ****1/2 ratings for it. Mindnumbingly ridiculous as far as I'm concerned since it's nowhere near that level for me. However, I wouldn't deny that it's at least very good, if not great even. It's a rather basic match - very simplistic, may I say. Del Rio tackles in a typical Del Rio-esque heel performance. He attacks the arm well, he sells his own well when Punk targets it at the beggining (which was a unique move given how it could serve as mindgames against Alberto, though it went nowhere unfortunely) and he does fine in his role of being a douchebag. Punk, well, he does a stereotypical babyface performance too, but he was sympathetic enough to gain my support. Ricardo added as usual, the crowd was super into it, the final crescendo at the end was superb and the ending... was underwhelming. I don't think Punk could've locked in the Vice with a bad arm, even if it came probably out of adrenaline. Even still, the match was very good, very basic in its approach but it worked and it was historical important too given how it was the dawn to the single longest WWE Title reign in 25 years. I'll give it a high ***1/2, + the good-feel factor of Punk's victory and the added historical importance = ****3/4* for me.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That match ruled. Punk and Del Rio stole the show. Loved the ending too. And not just because of who won. Their RAW match two weeks later rules too.

EDIT: Just rewatched the finish. Nothing wrong there. Punk used his not-injured right limb to lock in the Anadonda Vice, not the injured left limb. Sold the after-effect of locking in the vice too immediately after the ring bell. They had two other matches in 2013 that are sleeper gems as well.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching the 03/24/1997 episode of Nitro, NWO are on there way to the ring. Nash said right into the camera "Right back at ya HBK". Love those little moments lol.

Before a Savage/Prince Ikea match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> That match ruled. Punk and Del Rio stole the show. Loved the ending too. And not just because of who won. Their RAW match two weeks later rules too.
> 
> EDIT: Just rewatched the finish. Nothing wrong there. Punk used his not-injured right limb to lock in the Anadonda Vice, not the injured left limb. Sold the after-effect of locking in the vice too immediately after the ring bell. They had two other matches in 2013 that are sleeper gems as well.


I'm pretty sure you need BOTH limbs to lock in the Anaconda Vice full force like he was, though I do admit that I may have mistaken the right arm as the injured one upon rewatch. Nonetheless, I still feel like the ending should've came off better executed. He kept teasing the one-armed GTS time and time again. Incapacitating Del Rio enough so that he wouldn't counter another time maybe would've worked. But this is just me talking here.

And SVS 2011 wasn't really that hard of a show to steal, anyway. Outside of Ziggler/Morrison and this match, in-ring quality underperformed. But I still defend that show since from the get-go was more about memorability than it was about wrestling, and on that form it succeded for my money.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I interpreted the story as one where Del Rio scouted the GTS really well, especially since it's not a "surprise" finisher, but the Anaconda Vice is exactly that sort of surprise move. Punk also knocked Del Rio out with a roundhouse kick before the Vice, so I consider it good enough as a setup. Combine that with my markdom of Punk, and I justified everything. I did like other matches at Survivor Series though. Ziggler/Morrison ruled, big fan of the 5 on 5 tag match, and HENRY/BIG SHOW. I also didn't hate the main event because R Truth of all people put on a good performance, and The Rock was still cool at the time. But man, Cena's FIP segment went on WAY too long.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Team Orton/Team Barrett only really picked up on the last few minutes for me and before I just felt that match was kinda uninteresting, Henry/Show was good but quite inferior to Vengeance and I would say even MITB (the crowd not being into it until Show went HBK Mode was pretty annoying for me - yes, I'm one of those guys who factors in crowds as part of enjoying a match, and so should everyone imo) and the Main Event was only cool because of the crowd and the Rock. I did like Rock and Truth's chemistry for my surprise. Still, every match did have its memorable moment(s), there were three good matches even if one was a bit disappointing to me tbh, and the crowd was red hot pretty much all night long. I don't like to hit the old "guilty pleasure" thing because like C2D said himself there ain't no guilty pleasures and only things you enjoy, but it seems that there are many folks here that don't like this PPV and I disagree there. This was a good show for me, even if iffy in some parts.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That entire stretch of PPVs in 2011 from Money in the Bank to TLC is scary good. I can only think of one other time with a better stretch of seven shows which is 2001 from Royal Rumble to Summerslam, although Invasion was kinda iffy. Still a very underappreciated stretch of shows. Heck, even Capitol Punishment wasn't as terrible as I remember it being.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't think I'll ever revisit Survivor Series from 2011 and 2012. Specially the Orton matches. Those elimination matches standout for the dark days in 2012 as far as I'm concerned. Fuck those worthless shows. Only good thing to come out of either is seeing The Rock in the ring for the first time since 2004.

There is one D-Bryan match with Sin Cara (Mistico) that I really liked in 2011. I really enjoyed watching Cara that year despite all the botches so that was a rare period where I went on youtube and actually watched most matches instead of skipping through. Sin Cara matches specifically caught my interest. Think the Bryan match that was great is from July. Unlike the rest, I've really enjoyed the lighting used in Sin Cara matches because it gives an awesome cozy feeling.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Quite happy I was able to pick up the Bluray versions of SummerSlam, Night of Champions, Vengeance and HIAC for super cheap when SV were going out of the WWE DVD Business (FUCK YOU FREMANTLE!! ). Some gems and lots of fun matches throughout the shows. Never attempted to own SVS '11 though . FUCK THAT SHOW.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I haven't seen much Sin Cara to be honest, I haven't seen the match with Bryan but I have seen a Cara/Christian match that was really good, it was on the Best of 2011 set that was up on Netflix. Anyone remember the match I'm thinking of?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You will have to own it one day Cal. Because sooner or later, you will do the 2011 PPV Rambles. There's nowhere to hide, Cal 8*D

And Chris, I do remember it if it's the match where Christian goes to the outside and complains to the ref about the lighting in it . But the Bryan one in May is the best Cara match ever. Recommendation: also check out the No Countout match w/Evan Bourne. It's spotty (but that's expected) but really really fun. And I dug the Cesaro and Tensai matches too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well technically I don't NEED to own it . I don't own all of 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 or 2004 PPV's and I've managed to ramble on all of those just fine .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

But you will have to watch it one day so not buying it doesn't really make a difference .

But speaking of rambles, how's your next one going (if going at all)?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well buying it DOES make a difference; it costs money .

Never started anything yesterday like I wanted to. But I'm half way through the show now and it's awesome :mark:. Already a top 5 PPV of the year and I've only watched 2 matches and skipped 1! :lmao.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well... yeah, can't argue with that .

JUDGMENT DAY FINALLY GODDAMMIT :mark:.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Is Booker Vs Lashley as awful in reality as it sounds on paper?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just watching the Nitro before Spring Stampede '97. think even the bellringer got sick of Prince Ikea, as during an Ikea/La Parka match, he rang the bell before the match even finished. :lmao

Episode also contained a REALLY pointless and utterly random Piper/Flair 'promo', that was about nothing at all, fuck knows what they were going on about, probably both drunk. Sure it will lead to something at some point i guess.

Regal going mad and cleaning house after a quick loss to Jericho.  Oh, who the fuck is Debbie Combs. :lol


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

#ROOT said:


> Is Booker Vs Lashley as awful in reality as it sounds on paper?


It really isn't. I had no interest in this match-up when I made it to 2006 but they surprised me on PPV. It's nothing great but certainly watchable. Try to overcome your blind hatred for Booker for a day.

I mean you're going to watch much worse matches that he had against Batista.


----------



## Emotion Blur (May 7, 2012)

After much debate with myself, I think I've [mostly] settled on my WMX and WMXI ratings.

*Wrestlemania X*


> Owen Hart vs. Bret “Hit Man” Hart - ******
> 
> Bam Bam Bigelow & Luna Vachon vs. Doink & Dink - *3/4**
> 
> ...


*Wrestlemania XI*


> Lex Luger & British Bulldog vs. Eli & Jacob Blu - **1/4*
> 
> Razor Ramon vs. Jeff Jarrett - ****
> 
> ...


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> Is Booker Vs Lashley as awful in reality as it sounds on paper?


Well it is kinda watchable. Nothing really that offensive. It's meh, but meh doesn't equal bad I guess. But considering you NO'd the Benoit/Booker stuff, why the hell would you give that any chance (if you are giving it a chance)? Cause if you are, you just broke the CAL LOGIC.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Judgment Day 2006*

Huh, CM Punk's soon to be theme is the PPV theme .


*MNM Vs Brian Kendrick & Paul London - WWE Championship Match*

:mark: what a way to kick off the show! Some great tag action and MELINA.

Oh man, MNM just fucking rule. Nitro shoulder blocks London down to the mat, and Mercury comes into the ring pretending to have a camera while Nitro poses :lmao.

Nitro got too cocky though, and ends up walking right into an ARM DRAG~! and gets double teamed before tagging out so Mercury can take a beating .

So Londrick have beaten MNM FIVE TIMES IN A ROW leading up to this match lol. How come it took so long to get a tag title match? Shouldn't they have been like, in contention for the belts after the FIRST win? 

MELINA SCREAMING :mark:.

MELINA HEAD SCISSORING LONDON. Lucky bastard.

SNAP SHOT~!

London shows up out of nowhere to break it up, and this great match is continuing :mark:.

MNM are pretty much ruling the world here. Great tag work; working over Kendrick, cutting him off, distracting the referee, making London distract the referee, and of course using MELINA too. When he isn't screaming, anyway. MELINA IS A SCREAMA!

This part of the ramble is brought to you by Golden Wonder RINGOS, Salt & Vinegar flavour. BLOODY DELICIOUS. Om nom nom.

HOT TAG~!

:mark: London dropsaulted Nitro off the apron and landed on Mercury with the moonsault!

:lmao Melina broke up the pin by SCREAMING AT THE REFEREE :lmao.

Super hot finishing stretch, with London and Kendrick finally winning the tag titles!!!

This is what tag wrestling is all about. Everything you'd want from a tag match is here, except I would have added like 10 minutes onto it :side: .

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MNM JUST BROKE UP AT THE END OF THE MATCH . Yeah, they get back together by the end of the year, but who the FUCK thought it would be a good idea to break them up? SERIOUSLY? WHAT THE FUCK WERE THEY ON TO COME UP WITH THAT? FUCK YOU, WHOEVER CAME UP WITH IT. FUCK YOU. FUCK YOU AGAIN. THIS TIME WITH A SHARP POINTY STICK. I HATE YOU WHOEVER YOU ARE.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


*Chris Benoit Vs Finlay*

OH FUCK YES :mark:.

I'm already in love with this match all over again after the first few minutes :mark:. The collar and elbow tie up spot, similar to Finlay/Regal at the GAB, then them getting face to face and Benoit quick as a fucking flash does a double leg takedown catching Finlay off guard, only for Finlay to still be able to counter because he's fucking awesome :mark:.

Finlay starts slapping Benoit, which pisses him off, and even FINLAY tries to back away when Benoit fires back! A Terry Funk slap to Finlay (aka the hardest slap you'll ever receive lol) and then knees and elbows to the face of the Irishman. Just hard hitting, snug, gritty shit and it's AWESOME.

Love how both men are always doing something, be they in a hold trying to counter, or applying a hold trying to make it more painful or even turn it into something else (Benoit trying to change a headlock into a Crossface, for example). These two men don't know the meaning of "rest hold".

:lmao Finlay screams "YOU COUNT FASTER" at the referee and at first I thought he said "YOU CUNT FASTER" .

They go into an almost finishing stretch half way into the match, with Benoit missing the headbutt from the ropes, fighting back and then actually hitting it, but Finlay is too tough to be put down from just that and is able to regain control of the match due to the fact Benoit was hurting more than him.

:mark: Forearm shots to the back of Benoit, followed up with a massive club to the back of the head :mark:. This is the kind of hard hitting offence I love!

"COME ON BENOIT, SIT UP, LET ME SHOW YOU HOW TOUGH I AM!"

No wonder Benoit went on a 4 month sabbatical not long after this match... surprised he didn't need another neck surgery from those clotheslines by Finlay!

GERMAN SUPLEX ON THE FLOOR~!

The little comeback attempts from Benoit throughout this match, and the cut off spots from Finlay are just tremendous btw. This ISN'T just a match where 2 guys stiff each other. Far, FAR from it. It's just a beautiful wrestling match in every sense of the word. Even the fans are into the match, which for something like this is unfortunately unusual, but thankfully the fans here were able to appreciate how amazing this was.

CROSSFACE OUT OF NOWHERE~! Benoit battles to lock his hands together, and when he does, Finlay taps out immediately in the same way Regal would, which really puts over the Crossface if you can make someone like FINLAY or REGAL tap to it so fast. Also makes Finlay (and Regal) look smart by not wasting time in such a brutal hold.

:mark: THIS IS INCREDIBLE. I think I love it even more.

*Rating: ****1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 7*


*Jillian Hall Vs Melina*

:lmao this match is happening because they threw makeup at each other :lmao.

SUPERSTAR BILLY GRAHAM~!

Also, NOOOOOOOO to this match.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


JBL~! He's cutting a promo on Rey, then spots Chavo and stops mid sentence to ask Chavo why he's there :lmao. I often wonder the same thing when I see Chavo on a wrestling show... .


*Gregory Helms Vs Super Crazy - WWE Cruiserweight Championship Match*

The show that keeps on giving! :mark:

Classic Tazz, confuses SUPER CRAZY WITH HELMS :lmao.

Crazy tries to catch Helms off guard from the get go with a bunch of roll up variations. Helms throws him out of the ring to gain some separation, but Crazy holds on to the ropes and swings right back in, sticks his tongue out and hits Helms again :lmao.

The referee stops Crazy from diving over the ropes, then when he turns to check on Helms who is on the floor, Crazy again sticks out his tongue and dives over the ref! Fun stuff .

Helms seems to be overusing the damn headlock in this one, but in between those headlocks he's throwing out awesome knee strikes to the head of Crazy :mark:.

Unlike some people though, his headlocks at least have purpose, as he does focus a hell of a lot on the head and neck of opponents in his matches. The headlocks, vicious variations of neckbreakers, and then knees and kicks to the head :mark:.

In the end, Helms uses the ropes and STEALS a win. Good match!

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


MELINA SLAPS TEDDY LONG~! HE FIRES HER! AND NITRO! So not only have MNM broken up on this show, but Melina and Nitro have been kicked off Smackdown .


They show a video package of Angle winning the KOTR back in 2006, then cut to Anthony Robles in the crowd, an amateur wrestler with 1 leg. COULD THIS BE THE WRESTLER JOHNNY ACE HIRED BY MISTAKE INSTEAD OF ZACK GOWEN?!?!


*Kurt Angle Vs Mark Henry*

Well their RR match at the start of the year was a fucking DUD, but I hear this one is actually pretty good so I'm gonna give it a chance. 2006 Henry was more HIT than miss anyway so I'm definitely hopeful .

HENRY taking apart the announce table straight away, getting it ready to potentially SPLASH Kurt through it, something he's been doing for the last couple of months!

:mark: heel promo from Henry :mark:. I wish he didn't get injured as much. He was on a near Hall of Pain level run at the time.

Angle is injured coming into this match, and has to take the fight to Mark straight away in order to have any hopes of winning. Wisely going after the knee and taking advantage of the fact Henry isn't the fastest guy around.

ANGLE TEASING A GERMAN SUPLEX THROUGH THE TABLE~! Henry says no and doesn't move. LOL.

Angle trying to take out the legs of Mark, and Mark is trying to gouge the eyes out of Angle. What is this, Game of Thrones? 

FUCK ME ANGLE JUST GOT RUN OVER.

:lmao Angle has REVENGE written on his mouthpiece... which we clearly see as he's screaming in pain during a modified Camel Clutch . I don't think he's getting his revenge just yet...

WORLD'S STRONGEST SLAM COUNTERED INTO A DDT~!

GERMAN SUPLEX~!

The straps are down and Angle is building momentum!

ANGLE SLAM~!

HENRY KICKS OUT~!

:mark: Henry fucking EXPLODES with a clothesline and Angle is back on the mat hurting!

World's Strongest Slam is almost missed thanks to a replay, and the crowd and commentators act like it was a standard move. Only HENRY puts over the fact Angle kicks out of his fucking FINISHER.

ANKLE LOCK~!

Henry POWERS out.

Teased splash through the table, but Angle moves... only to end up getting splashed into the fucking RING POST :mark:.

HENRY WINS BY COUNTOUT~!

Yup, this is worlds better than their awful, awful RR match. Henry looked like a fucking beast, and Angle did a (mostly) good job of selling his ribs, but during his comebacks he was seemingly able to feel no pain...

After the match, Angle fires back on Henry with a ton of chair shots, then grapevines the leg and makes Henry tap to the Ankle Lock! ANGLE SLAM ON THE TABLE~! :lmao it doesn't break :lmao. CHAIR SHOT TO THE HEAD~! HENRY FALLS ON THE TABLE AND NOW IT FINALLY BREAKS :lmao.

Do they have a rematch on SD? Normally I'd be the guy to know the answer, but I don't recall one. If it happened I probably skipped it during my SD 06 project, as it seems I skipped this match the first time around too.

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Bobby Lashley Vs Booker T - King of the Ring Finals Match*

Well it didn't get its own PPV, but at least we DID get a KOTR tournament in 2006. They've done a few more on TV afterwards, so why can't we get it every sodding year? A 3 hour Raw dedicated to it would be perfect, fairly sure that's been done before.

I wonder if Booker had Sharmell scream KING BOOKER in bed after he won?

Can't say I wanna sit through this. So I won't.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*The Undertaker Vs The Great Khali*

NO.

No I am NOT going to skip an Undertaker match, no matter what! 

Undertaker keeps punching Khali in the fucking FACE, but Khali is unaffected and just keeps launching the Dead Man out of the ring!

Fans are going fucking INSANE as Undertaker sets up Old School! Then Khali ruins it with a slam. Stupid Khali.

Khali might be a giant oaf but Undertaker is bumping for his shit like the GOAT he is, and is selling the effects of the beating really well. Just wish by 2006 they'd have figured out that Undertaker is better when he ISN'T going up against monsters all the time...

CHOP TO THE HEAD~!

UNDERTAKER KICKS OUT~!

UNDERTAKER SITS UP~!

Damn, Khali is actually throwing out some big bombs in this one. Not often I remember seeing him actually PUNCH someone.

:lmao at Undertaker having to JUMP to headbutt Khali. Awesome.

OLD SCHOOL~!

JABS TO THE FACE~!

Khali will NOT go down!

Khali is trapped in the ropes! And well, Undertaker isn't one for passing on the oppertunity to punch someone in the fucking face when they can't defend themselves .

CHOP TO THE HEAD~!

KHALI PINS UNDERTAKER WITH ONE FOOT ON HIS CHEST. Holy FUCK.

This wasn't actually bad. Didn't last too long, so we didn't get some typical rest hold shit from Khali like a Nerve Grip or something that bores me to tears. Instead we had Undertaker constantly trying to battle the giant while Khali keeps hitting Undertaker with basic, but hard hitting moves until he finally defeats the Dead Man.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*Rey Mysterio Vs JBL - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

How odd, they are still calling it the World HEAVYWEIGHT Championship at this point, even though they eventually dropped the heavyweight part for a while when Rey had it .

Cole keeps putting over Rey as the greatest underdog in the history of WWE. LOL. It's obviously CENA :side:.

JBL tries to be the bully early on, but Rey kicks the fuck out of his legs then flies around and knocks JBL silly!!! I got knocked silly once. Never been the same since 8*D.

LOW BLOW TO JBL~! What a cheating bastard Rey is! I am disgusted that he is the World Champion! LET'S GO JBL!

Yey JBL boots the evil cheating foreigner in the face!

I'm hungry. Those RINGOS could only fill me for so long. No idea what I'm gonna have for tea.

JBL HITTING THREE AMIGOS~! Does them better than Chavo :lmao.

TRUFFLE SHUFFLE!!! Oh, no, sorry, JBL was mocking Eddie Guerrero. My bad .

JBL scares Rey's wife to death :lmao.

TRIPLE CLOTHESLINES~!

Rey is bleeding through his mask which is a great visual. Why is the referee counting Rey out? This isn't a fucking Last Man Standing match...

SLEEPER~! PUNCHES TO THE FACE WHILE APPLYING THE SLEEPER~!

Rey begins his comeback... but ends up jumping balls first into JBL's boot! THE GOOD GUY GOT HIS REVENGE~!

619~!

THE EVIL MYSTERIO DIVES ON THE REFEREE! BOOOOOOO REY MYSTERIO BOOOOOOO.

POWERBOMB~!

Another referee shows up, but Mysterio somehow kicks out! I think it was a slow count, he was probably paid off by Mysterio. JBL agrees and decks the corrupt official!

REY USES A CHAIR~!

619 and SPLASH~!

REY RETAINS~!

Really good match . First time I've seen it since probably 2006. I've never been able to sit through it any other time I've tried to watch it. Glad I was able to this time around!

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 18*​


----------



## Biblet2014 (Jul 11, 2014)

I swear Mark Madden is the most obnoxious annoying WCW Announcers, take for example Fall Brawl 2000's Rection VS Storm Match where he is yelling and screaming CANADA and YES YES! OVER AND OVER. Atleast Mean Gene made up for it in the interview after the match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao I like Undertaker/Khali more than Cal.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yes, finally fucking watched this.  Man, i wish they could have gotten this on PPV, this is awesome. Love some of the counters in this, and Cena selling the leg after Rey's STF attempt. Excellent.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I loved that Rey/Cena Raw match as well. I remember flipping my shit when Rey countered to apply an STF of his own :lol


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Survivour Series 2002:

Dudley Boyz&Jeff Hardy/3 minute Warning&Rico- **3/4
Noble/Kidman- ***
Trish/Victoria- ***1/2
Show/Lesnar- **1/2
SmackDown Tag Titles Match- ****1/4
EC Match- **1/4


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Awesome review as usual Cal, great to have finally gotten to see that Benoit/Finlay review. Dat JD 2006 review overall, actually.

All eyes are on No Mercy to try to beat that score out of the SD PPV's, it seems


----------



## Biblet2014 (Jul 11, 2014)

Also just realized that for the opening of Fall Brawl 2000 they used a splitscreen thing with one side being the real wrestlers and the other action figures. Thought it was a nice touch


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Biblet2014 said:


> Also just realized that for the opening of Fall Brawl 2000 they used a splitscreen thing with one side being the real wrestlers and the other action figures. Thought it was a nice touch


Goldberg/Steiner. :mark:


----------



## Biblet2014 (Jul 11, 2014)

Welp, Paul Orndorff just injured himself trying to hit another Piledriver with I think a Neck/Spin injury, jeez that is brutal but atleast he got a huge standing obvation and pop.... Biggest pop of the night so far.... fpalm


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thinking about putting a 'Best Of Clash Of The Champions' List together, after looking online, came up with this: Any additions etc would be welcome:



Spoiler: Clash Of The Champions Match Listing



Clash Of The Champions I
Tully Blanchard & Arn Anderson v. Barry Windham & Lex Luger (Clash Of The Champions I)
The Midnight Express (c) vs. The Fantastics (Clash Of The Champions I)
Ric Flair v. Sting 

Clash Of The Champions II
The Fantastics (c) vs. The Sheepherders (Clash Of The Champions II)
Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard (c) vs. Dusty Rhodes & Sting

Clash Of The Champions III
Sting vs. Barry Windham (c) 
Barry Windham & Ric Flair) vs. The Midnight Express (Clash Of The Champions IV)

Clash Of The Champions V

Clash of the Champions VI
The Samoan Swat Team (Fatu & Samu) (w/Paul E. Dangerously) vs. The Midnight Express
The Varsity Club (Mike Rotunda & Steve Williams) (w/Kevin Sullivan) vs. The Road Warriors
Ricky Steamboat (c) vs. Ric Flair 

Clash of the Champions VII
The Varsity Club (Kevin Sullivan & Mike Rotunda) vs. The Steiner Brothers
Ricky Steamboat vs. Terry Funk 

Clash of the Champions VIII
The Fabulous Freebirds (Jimmy Garvin & Michael Hayes) (c) vs. The Steiner Brother
Lex Luger (c) vs. Tommy Rich
Ric Flair & Sting vs. The J-Tex Corporation (Dick Slater & The Great Muta)

Clash of the Champions IX
Lex Luger (c) vs. Brian Pillman
The Midnight Express (Bobby Eaton & Stan Lane) vs. The Dynamic Dudes
Ric Flair vs. Terry Funk 

Clash of the Champions X
The Steiner Brothers (Rick Steiner & Scott Steiner) (c) vs. Doom 

Clash of the Champions XI
The Rock 'n' Roll Express (Ricky Morton & Robert Gibson) vs. The Midnight Express
Doom (Butch Reed & Ron Simmons) (c) vs. The Steiner Brothers

Clash of the Champions XII
Lex Luger (c) vs. Ric Flair

Clash of the Champions XIII
Sid Vicious vs. The Nightstalker
Ric Flair vs. Butch Reed

Clash of the Champions XIV
Arn Anderson & Barry Windham vs. The Renegades 

Clash of the Champions XV
The Steiner Brothers (Rick Steiner & Scott Steiner) (c) vs. Hiroshi Hase & Masa Chono
Ric Flair (c) vs. Beautiful Bobby 

Clash of the Champions XVI
Brian Pillman vs. Badstreet

Clash of the Champions XVII
Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Steamboat (w/Barry Windham) vs. The Enforcers (Arn Anderson & Larry Zbyszko)
Rick Rude (w/Paul E. Dangerously) vs. Sting

Clash of the Champions XVIII
Cactus Jack vs. Van Hammer
Barry Windham, Dustin Rhodes & Ron Simmons vs. The Dangerous Alliance (Arn Anderson, Beautiful Bobby & Larry Zbyszko) (w/Paul E. Dangerously)
Ricky Steamboat & Sting vs. Rick Rude & Steve Austin

Clash of the Champions XIX
Brian Pillman & Jushin Thunder Liger vs. Biff Wellington & Chris Benoit
Steve Williams & Terry Gordy vs. The Steiner Brothers

Clash of the Champions XX
Ricky Steamboat vs. Steve Austin
Big Van Vader, Jake Roberts, Rick Rude & The Super Invader (w/Harley Race) vs. Nikita Koloff, Sting & The Steiner Brothers

Clash of the Champions XXI
Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas vs. Barry Windham & Dustin Rhodes

Clash of the Champions XXII
Cactus Jack, Dustin Rhodes & Sting vs. Barry Windham, Big Van Vader & Paul Orndorff 

Clash of the Champions XXIII
Barry Windham (c) vs. Too Cold Scorpio
Big Van Vader, Rick Rude & Sid Vicious (w/Col. Robert Parker & Harley Race) vs. Davey Boy Smith, Dustin Rhodes & Sting
The Four Horsemen (Arn Anderson & Ric Flair) vs. The Hollywood Blondes (Flyin' Brian & Stunning Steve) (c)

Clash of the Champions XXIV
The Four Horsemen (Arn Anderson & Paul Roma) vs. Lord Steven Regal & Steve Austin (w/Sir William) (c)
Big Van Vader (c) vs. Davey Boy Smith (w/Harley Race

Clash of the Champions XXV
Steve Austin (w/Col. Robert Parker) vs. Brian Pillman
Ric Flair vs. Big Van Vader (w/Harley Race) (c)

Clash of the Champions XXVI
Cactus Jack & Maxx Payne vs. The Nasty Boys
Ric Flair & Sting vs. Rick Rude & Vader (w/Harley Race)

Clash of the Champions XXVII
Ric Flair (c) [WH] vs. Sting (c)

Clash of the Champions XXVIII
Ricky Steamboat vs. Steve Austin (c)
Ric Flair (w/Sensuous Sherri) vs. Hulk Hogan (w/Jimmy Hart) (c)

Clash of the Champions XXIX
Vader (w/Harley Race) vs. Dustin Rhode

Clash of the Champions XXX
Arn Anderson (w/Col. Robert Parker & Meng) (c) vs. Johnny B. Badd

Clash of the Champions XXXI
Vader vs. Arn Anderson & Ric Flair 

Clash of the Champions XXXII
The Nasty Boys (Brian Knobbs & Jerry Sags) vs. The Public Enemy (Johnny Grunge & Rocco Rock)
Dean Malenko vs. Alex Wright

Clash of the Champions XXXIII
Rey Misterio Jr. (c) vs. Dean Malenko

Clash of the Champions XXXIV
Dean Malenko vs. Ultimo Dragon (w/Sonny Onoo) (c)
Chavo Guerrero Jr., Chris Jericho & Super Calo vs. Konnan, La Parka & Mr. JL

Clash of the Champions XXXV
Chris Jericho (c) vs. Eddie Guerrero 
Psychosis, Silver King, Villano IV & Villano V (w/Sonny Onoo) vs. Hector Garza, Juventud Guerrera, Lizmark Jr. & Super Calo


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

These are worth looking at for a COTC set - 

The Fantastics v. Eddie Gilbert/Ron Simmons (Clash IV)
Windham/Rhodes v. Anderson/Eaton (Clash XIX)
Benoit v. Armstrong (Clash XXII)
Blondes v. Steamboat/Douglas (Clash XXII) <<<<<- this is essential. I thought it was the best match of their feud, and almost a top ten COTC match.
Steamboat v. Orndorff (Clash XIV) <- this was really good, right? Am I confusing it with something else? Somebody back me up on this.
Rhodes v. Regal (Clash XXVI)
Regal v. Zbyszko (Clash XXVII)
Rhodes/Rhodes v. Funk/Buck (Clash XXVIII)
Benoit v. Sullivan (Clash XXXIV)


I wouldn't immediately add all of those (just Blondes/SteamboatDouglas), but IIRC they're all worth watching to see if you want to add them.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I thought you didn't like Simmons/Gilbert vs. Fantastics. I remember we discussed this. Steamboat vs. Orndorff is a fun sprint. That show did have a bad Bobby Eaton match unfortunately. Against Scorpio no less.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I feel like my plug for Horsemen vs Gary Hart's minions in the steel cage is a choice pick for a COTC set. From COTC X: Texas Shootout.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Muta's reaction in that match :mark:. Too bad the match wasn't even a match. Almost as frustrating as when Genichiro Tenryu was wasted on a bait-and-switch main event. That show also had that hilariously bad Mil Mascaras vs. Cactus Jack match that Foley talks about in his book.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It was better than a match. It was a war.

Anderson vs Orndorff is another real good match from the '90 COTC pool. iirc that match is how Orndorff got signed by WCW. They enjoyed his performance, etc.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I thought you didn't like Simmons/Gilbert vs. Fantastics. I remember we discussed this. Steamboat vs. Orndorff is a fun sprint. That show did have a bad Bobby Eaton match unfortunately. Against Scorpio no less.


Even if I didn't like it, a lot of people do so it's worth for him to check out. And it's not that I didn't like it, I just thought it went too long and kind of dragged. I think with 7-10 minutes shaved off it could have been an excellent match.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

What's everyone's MOTY thus far? I re-watched some matches tonight. Wyatts/Shield from the chamber is still amazing. Bryan/Wyatt is better than the first watch. I'd still have Shield/Wyatts as my MOTY thus far but it's really close.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

For WWE it is Shield vs Wyatts from Elimination Chamber. As I suspect it is for 99% of other fans.

Worldwide, it's a bit of a toss up among a few all in that "perfection" range.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm still kinda split between Shield vs Wyatt Family and Cesaro/Zayn.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Was too mad at the result of Zayn vs Cesaro to acknowledge it like that. :side:


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

For WWE, mine is Shield/Wyatts followed very closely by Zayn/Cesaro.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

My top five of WWE 2014 so far:

John Cena vs. Cesaro - Raw 2/17
The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family - Elimination Chamber
Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn - NXT: ArRival
Triple H vs. Daniel Bryan - WrestleMania XXX
Dean Ambrose vs. Seth Rollins - Raw 8/18

February was an amazing match quality month.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> These are worth looking at for a COTC set -
> 
> The Fantastics v. Eddie Gilbert/Ron Simmons (Clash IV)
> Windham/Rhodes v. Anderson/Eaton (Clash XIX)
> ...





Hayley Seydoux said:


> I feel like my plug for Horsemen vs Gary Hart's minions in the steel cage is a choice pick for a COTC set. From COTC X: Texas Shootout.


Thanks for those.  Couple of obvious ones i missed out lol, plus there are quite a few i need to watch TBH.

Meltzer obviously knows fuck all, he gave both of those regal matches *.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It's still Cesaro/Zayn for me. My only bother was Cesaro winning. Everything else was perfection as far as I'm concerned.

Shield/Wyatts is closely #2, followed by HHH/Bryan, Cena/Cesaro and Rollins/Ambrose FCA to round out the top 5.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*WCW Spring Stampede 1997*:

*Ultimate Dragon vs. Rey Mysterio Jr* **** _Another excellent match between the two_
*WCW Women’s Champion Akira Hokuto (w/Sonny Oono) vs. Madusa* 1/2*
*WCW World Television Champion Prince Iaukea vs. Lord Steven Regal* * _Hope this Ikea's guy's push ends soon, we should have gotten a proper Rey/Regal feud FFS._
*Public Enemy (w/Table) vs. Jeff Jarrett & Steve McMichael (w/Debra, Flowers, & a Steel Briefcase)* * _I just dont like Public Enemy in WCW, and i havn't seen anything from them in ECW i don't think. Id much rather watch Faces Of Fear destroy people thanks._
*WCW U.S. Champion Dean Malenko vs. Chris Benoit (w/Woman)* **1/2 _This was building to the Apocolypse angle that ended up going nowhere, with Eddie/Malenkp/Benoit as a team. Also, Anderson helped Benoit as he should as a fellow Horsemen, then just let Sullivan clock Benoit over head. I know Arn was injured at the time, but the finish made even less sense afterwards,_
*WCW World Tag Team Champion Kevin Nash (w/Syxx & Ted DiBiase) vs. Rick Steiner* DUD
*Booker T vs. Stevie Ray vs. Lex Luger vs. The Giant – Four Corners match* *1/2 _For a shot at the WHC. Went 20 minutes lol. Bizarre and random really, but that is WCW._
*Randy Savage (w/Elizabeth) vs. Diamond Dallas Page (w/Kimberly) – No-DQ Match* ***1/2

PPV ends with NWO turmoil, Savage clocking Bischoff for starters.

PPV is probably best remembered for a Booker T promo lol. Wonder if anyone thought Stevie Ray had a chance of winning that title shot. :lol Seriously, that 'title shot' line up was so random, even on the Nitro's beforehand there was nothing, it was just....there.


----------



## lemo (Jan 1, 2006)

Bret Hart vs Terry Funk: 50 years of Funk wrestlefest 11 September 1997

Unfortunately the youtube version doesn't have the full entrances because they are special on thier way and i will get to them in a minute, i got the event dvd from highspot. Btw it's not an ECW event, it's wrestlefest 50 years of Funk and it was held in Taxes. Mankind and Japanese stars were there as well. For a non WWF / WCW event at that time to see a sellout in an arena is a pretty impressive!!! So back to the entrances for Funk as i said it was built as Funk last match in Taxes his home town, through Funk entrances the fans are hugging him with tears , Funk has tears in his eyes right away. Bret's entrance is great to see him walking through such crowd along with Bruce and Keith Harts. Before the start all the wrestlers gets inside the ring to celebrate Funk and then Paul Heyman cuts a promo to put Funk over and you know how Paul puts someone over and presents him with life time champion ship belt!!! Crowd is buzzing and red hot already and through all the match. Of course you get then Bret awesome promo as well. So the match starts with old school mat wrestling, Bret is being outwrestled by the old vetran , goes outside little bit 2 times and Funk says hell with it and turn to the 90's version of him and brawl in the outside striking Bret on the aisle and ring post, they are back to the ring ( of course Bret's home ) and directly Bret goes to the knee to stop Funk, beautiful offense and variation of knee work and holds. Bret doesn't just work on the knee in the ring but have some variation 0f great heel work where he has visious attack outside the ring and now he sends funk to the post and aisel. The fight through the crowd Keith and Bruce apply some heelLet me break the match for you, unfortunately the youtube version doesn't have the full entrances because they are special on thier way and i will get to them in a minute, i got the event dvd from highspot. Btw it's not an ECW event, it's wrestlefest 50 years of Funk and it was held in Taxes. Mankind and Japanese stars were there as well. For a non WWF / WCW event at that time to see a sellout in an arena is a pretty impressive!!! So back to the entrances for Funk as i said it was built as Funk last match in Taxes his home town, through Funk entrances the fans are hugging him with tears , Funk has tears in his eyes right away. Bret's entrance is great to see him walking through such crowd along with Bruce and Keith Harts. Before the start all the wrestlers gets inside the ring to celebrate Funk a tactics to add to the heat of the match. So Funk tries to have a come back slowly with few punches and strikes and here is the key the punches looks beautifuly and real. Never seen such good punches in today wrestling fow a while. Funk has the momentum again go for some big moves ddt, piledriver with near falls. Bret back to the knee work but no more visioucly with steel chairs, figure four ring post ( loved how Bret's attire full of Dust and dirt after getting up from the floor ) Now Funk is bleeding, the heat is off the chart, there is a spot where Funk on his knee and Just Bret hammering him with strikes and Funk refusing to stay down, Funk tries to do the same and work slowly on Bret's knee to get up, finally Bret's knee gave away and wow Funk destroys Bret's knee with steel chairs, Funk apply the famous Funks knee twist, places explodes, goes for the figure four., Bret reverse the nice old school small packaget, gets 2 , Bret goes for the sharpshooter funk has him for the small package gets 2. funk is desprate , he is going full ECW mode, lay Bret on a table goes of the rope for lancha, missing the table breaks. after all this war we have such a simple beautiful old school where funk goes for back suplex both shoulders on the floor and Bret rises his shoulders for the 3 cont for the win!!! The whole thing is genius!!!!

*****


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ill try and upload the full match inc entrances when i can.

Prince Ikea lost the TV title on Nitro.  About damn time, im sure Mysterio or Regal will now be back in the picture.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ya know, I never did get around to seeing Funk/Bret from 97. Always hear contrasting opinions; IT'S SUPER AWESOME or IT SUCKS SO BAD. One day I'll watch it myself. One day. Maybe. I have like a billion other things I need to watch before it though. How many lives do we get these days? Still 1? Shit.

Speaking of SHIT (hahahaha), I just posted the single worst ramble I have EVER done on my blog. Ya'll probably remember the epic shite that was my ARMAGEDDON 2004 RAMBLE. Well, it's still just as bad today as it was back when I wrote it! Yey!!!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Speaking of which, are you working on your next 06 ramble? I guess you are and that Vengeance or Backlash are next .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not atm, might start later, might not. Got other shit I wanna get done .

Vengeance 06 is next though.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The only "sucks so bad" part to Funk/Hart is the finish and first comeback. Not sure how a bridged suplex ends up in the offender losing but w/e.

Almost tempted to call it a complete carryjob by Bret, too. Funk is goodish/okay during the beatdown but completely blows off the work during his comebacks. Terry looks more like a lethargic Gypsy Joe than a hometown hero with a bummed out knee. Body of his first comeback is weird with a piledriver thrown in with no payoff as Hart takes over not much later. Meh. Hey, the timing of the workovers and two comebacks were exceptional, at least. Bruce Hart/Funk bits had depth and played as revenge/Chekov spots, as well. But that's probably reaching in finding praise for this.

In sum: good matwork to start. Great workover. Shitty comeback. Good workover. Decent hope run. Shitty finishing run.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Current 2014 WWE MotY standings:

1. Cesaro vs Sami Zayn ArRival ****3/4
2. The Shield vs The Wyatt Family Elimination Chamber 2014 ****3/4
3. Daniel Bryan vs Bray Wyatt Royal Rumble 2014 ****1/4
4. Daniel Bryan vs Triple H WrestleMania 30 ****1/4
5. Cesaro vs John Cena Raw Feb. 2014 ****1/4
6. John Cena vs Brock Lesnar Summerslam 2014 ****
7. Dean Ambrose vs Seth Rollins No DQ Raw 8/18/14 ****
8. Real Americans vs Sheamus/Christian Raw ****
9. Dean Ambrose vs Seth Rollins Lumberjack Summerslam 2014 ****
10. Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton vs Batista WrestleMania 30 ****


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Shocked how Wyatts/Shield EC isnt the consensus #1 tbh. I've only seen it once but when I did it was "perfection" territory and the feeling/aura I got alone about it is was so rare, dont think anything has come close, yet some great matches


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Shield/Wyatts I don't even know a reason why I don't have it at *****, but I just... don't feel it's that good despite being virtually flawless tbh. Cesaro/Zayn on the other hand I feel that despite the wrong choice of winner was just absolute perfection and if Zayn had won I'd give it the full five in a nutshell. It's just that I prefer Cesaro/Zayn personally for some reason I can't quite touch, I don't know.

Anyway. Does anyone here feel like they could book the "perfect" match? Like, in terms of booking and storytelling, they could book a legit 5-star match on their own?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Eva Marie said:


> Shocked how Wyatts/Shield EC isnt the consensus #1 tbh. I've only seen it once but when I did it was "perfection" territory and the feeling/aura I got alone about it is was so rare, dont think anything has come close, yet some great matches


The gap between Shield/Wyatt's and Cesaro/Zayn is small, very very small. The only reason I have Cesaro/Zayn ranked above it is because how much emotion Zayn brought with that unbelievable baby face performance he turned in. While watching Shield/Wyatt's I was downright giddy throughout the entire match, but I wasn't emotionally invested in seeing either team win. It didn't matter who won, it was just the "this is amazing, how wonderful is this match?" Type feeling. Whereas with Cesaro/Zayn, by the halfway point I was totally invested in seeing Zayn pull out the victory.

If two matches are perfectly equal in quality (which I believe Cesaro/Zayn and Shield/Wyatt's are) then the one that has me totally emotionally invested in the outcome by the end is the one I'm gonna side with. Zayn just made me care more than the Shield or the Wyatt's did.

Just personal preference though, you absolutely can't go wrong with choosing either match are your WWE MotY.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Speaking of Funk:

*Terry Funk vs Chris Candido (Hardcore Match) (WCW Thunder 05.31.2000)*

x24yihl

Funk get's kicked by a horse. :lmao "F**king horse, I'll kick your f**king ass!"


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

ATF said:


> Shield/Wyatts I don't even know a reason why I don't have it at *****, but I just... don't feel it's that good despite being virtually flawless tbh. Cesaro/Zayn on the other hand I feel that despite the wrong choice of winner was just absolute perfection and if Zayn had won I'd give it the full five in a nutshell. It's just that I prefer Cesaro/Zayn personally for some reason I can't quite touch, I don't know.
> 
> Anyway. Does anyone here feel like they could book the "perfect" match? Like, in terms of booking and storytelling, they could book a legit 5-star match on their own?


I think I could book a Rollins/Ambrose 5-star match in HIAC. 

I'm glad people mentioned HHH/Bryan. What a match that was.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, I booked a not 5-star but 4-star plus (ask cjack and funnyfaces if they think so too) Lumberjack match between Rollins and Ambrose, so how hard could a HIAC match be? 

I personally am perfectly capable of making a Taker/Edge circa 2006 (w/Lita in Edge's corner) 2 out of 3 falls match w/the Streak on the line damn near ***** in terms of story and booking. That may sound totally random, but the idea in my mind is just perfection in my twisted head and I don't know why the WWE have never done such a thing. 

In short words, Edge and Lita dress up as druids as Taker makes his entrance. Edge attacks Taker from behind and beats the fuck out of him for 5 minutes, opening Taker up and ending his beatdown w/a Conchairto. EMT's, paramedics and whoever the GM was rush to the ring, but Edge like a blood-smelling shark tells the ref to ring the bell. Hesitantly he does, and Edge goes for the cover, with his plan being that his brutalization of Taker giving him the first fall and then just Spearing Taker to oblivion for the 2nd. But Taker kicks out. From there, it's a natural evolution of Edge's character, him becoming more and more consumed by frustration and rage as time goes by. He hits Taker with pretty much everything, and Taker still kicks out, as well as brings in a bunch of comebacks and flurries along the way. Edge then hits one big Spear, sooner than he expected... still not enough. From that point, Edge goes mad and improvises a whole new plan after another to beat Taker in whatever way possible. He decides to do an unpredecedented act of defiance: Tombstone Taker in an announce table. And instead of going back to the ring, Edge takes his time walking there, as the referee counts out both men. The first fall ended in a double countout, and now the next fall will determine the winner. Edge pleads the referee to count faster, as Taker, after selling the Tombstone for quite a while, finally sits up on the announce table with a whole new life in him and an expression of major wrath, determined to get revenge. Lita attempts to stop Taker from getting back in the ring, but Taker shoves her into the steps. This pisses off Edge madly, who without thinking that he'll break the ref's count, attempts to Spear Taker in the apron, but Taker dodges, Edge flies to the outside and Taker just destroys Edge from there. Edge still gets offense in, and he'll try about anything to end the Streak now - from faking a low blow, to even going as far as to asking Lita to hit him with a chair so that Taker gets disqualified. On the verge of this last act, the finishing stretch begins as Taker stops Lita and Chokeslams her into the outside. Edge attempts to strike, but he walks into a Chokeslam for a 2 count. Edge then counters a Tombstone attempt into one of his own, in which Taker counters again and finally Tombstones Edge. And then he Tombstones Edge again for the 3 count.

I'm starting to think I'm better than the entirety of Creative by myself 8*D


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> I'm starting to think I'm better than the entirety of Creative by myself 8*D


With all due respect, that is not saying much considering the ineptitude of the current 'Creative' :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Fab Four said:


> Ill try and upload the full match inc entrances when i can.
> 
> Prince Ikea lost the TV title on Nitro.  About damn time, im sure Mysterio or Regal will now be back in the picture.


Bless WCW for their randomness in giving the strap to Ultimo. We'll reap the rewards come Slamboree. What an opener; what a show.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Bless WCW for their randomness in giving the strap to Ultimo. We'll reap the rewards come Slamboree. What an opener; what a show.


Indeed. I watched that entire show not too long ago and really dug it, Benoit/MENG was MotN for me but just barely as Dragon/Regal is an absolute thing of beauty. Man, wonder what a 1997 Misterio vs Regal match would have been like...I can only imagine. Why WCW never gave them a prolonged feud, when the story would pretty much write itself once they stepped into the ring, I will never know.

They should have just had Regal do programs with all the Lucha guys: Regal vs Dragon, Regal vs Rey, Regal vs Psicosis, Regal vs La Parka, Regal vs Juventud, Regal vs Eddie :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Bless WCW for their randomness in giving the strap to Ultimo. We'll reap the rewards come Slamboree. What an opener; what a show.


Im a few Nitro's away from Slamboree, but yeah, im looking forward to Regal/Dragon, im just glad Ikea is out of the picture.

Saying that, he just had a Cruiserweight title match against Syxx on nitro, and i was rooting for some NWO interference lol.

Regal/Rey had a nice little match on Nitro in '97, which i upped the other day. but yeah, i wish they could have had a feud considering the story has been there for months now on these Nitro's.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Top 10 WWE: 
1. Shield/Wyatts EC *****( that's right the full five hell even with how short this feud was the whole build and payoff was magic. These boys were indeed willing to DIE for this)
2. Zayn/Cesaro ****1/2
3. Cena/Cesaro first Raw match ****1/2
4. Bryan/Wyatt a rare rating of ****1/3
5. HHH/Bryan WM 30 ****1/4
6. Shield/Evo ER ****1/4 (in the grand scheme really slept on and I cant believe many prefer the nonsensical Passion of the Reigns match that I feel is Shield's worst and only bad match I've seen. I guess different strokes different folks)
7. Dean/Seth FCA ****1/4
8. WM 30 Main event high end of ****
9. EC match ****
10. An impossible to distinguish a superior 3 way tie between MITB for sheer entertainment and capturing of the MITB spirit, Lesnar vs Cena for my personal enjoyment/significance and storytelling and Shield/Wyatts II for the wrestling and significance to the Shield and subsequently WWE with this being the beginning of the end for the Shield and IMO Dean's coming out party). All 3 matches at ****
Note: I was surprised at how lessened I felt at Orton/Cesaro SD when I rewatched it, as initially I had it as a really great above 4 star clinic by Orton in particular. Rewatch it was just another of this year's many in the shuffle good matches that doesn't stick too much aside from Orton's clinical selling of the swing and aftereffects)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Indeed. I watched that entire show not too long ago and really dug it, Benoit/MENG was MotN for me but just barely as Dragon/Regal is an absolute thing of beauty. Man, wonder what a 1997 Misterio vs Regal match would have been like...I can only imagine. Why WCW never gave them a prolonged feud, when the story would pretty much write itself once they stepped into the ring, I will never know.
> 
> They should have just had Regal do programs with all the Lucha guys: Regal vs Dragon, Regal vs Rey, Regal vs Psicosis, Regal vs La Parka, Regal vs Juventud, Regal vs Eddie :mark:


MENG VS BENOIT. Aye, I remember chatting w/ya about it. Proof I wasn't the only one who found Mongo vs White to be a sleeper not bad match. Which is like HOW? but who cares, it worked. And KEVIN GREENE.

I feel like Regal may have had a gem or two on the B & C shows. I should look it up. For better or for worse, at least Regal vs Mysterio did happen once & we all know Regal vs Psychosis went down. :mark:



The Fab Four said:


> Im a few Nitro's away from Slamboree, but yeah, im looking forward to Regal/Dragon, im just glad Ikea is out of the picture.
> 
> Saying that, he just had a Cruiserweight title match against Syxx on nitro, and i was rooting for some NWO interference lol.
> 
> Regal/Rey had a nice little match on Nitro in '97, which i upped the other day. but yeah, i wish they could have had a feud considering the story has been there for months now on these Nitro's.


I think the card will surprise you. But, perhaps it was just down my preferred alley. Only Jarrett is the downer w/the event. And you know to expect that.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ive seen DDP do some cool variations of his 'Diamond Cutter', including one where he Fireman carries first, then hits the Cutter. Looks like an early demo of an F5 lol. But this one here i just come across. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Holy shit I just reacted like the crowd did.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Its fucking glorious. Found the full match here:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh shoot. Bet that's some fun. DDP was the MAN.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Pretty much anyone can half a brain can book shit better than WWE's creative team can. Although, nowadays, I blame Vince more than creative after hearing numerous interviews where the writers are required to write the show for Vince rather than the fans. Plus, everyone knows Vince constantly changes his mind.

Top 10 WWE:

1 -- THE SHIELD vs. THE WYATTS -- Elimination Chamber (****3/4)
2 -- SAMI ZAYN vs. CESARO -- NXT Arrival (****1/2) - will probably have to re-watch.
3 -- DANIEL BRYAN vs. TRIPLE H -- Wrestlemania 30 (****1/2) - will probably re-watch.
4 -- DANIEL BRYAN vs. BRAY WYATT -- Royal Rumble (****1/2)
5 -- CESARO vs. JOHN CENA -- Raw 02/17/14 (****1/4)
6 -- DEAN AMBROSE vs. SETH ROLLINS -- Raw 08/18/14 (****1/4)
7 -- DANIEL BRYAN vs. RANDY ORTON -- Raw 02/03/14 (****)
8 -- CESARO vs. RANDY ORTON -- Smackdown 02/14/14 (****)
9 -- DEAN AMBROSE vs. SETH ROLLINS -- Summerslam (****)
10 -- THE SHIELD vs. THE WYATTS -- Main Event 04/08/14 (****)


I still have not gotten my hands on watching the G1 Climax tournament yet. I heard amazing things.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Do we all still love Mortis? Dude did a freaking second rope piledriver on someone during a run in.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Speaking of Daniel Bryan vs Triple H, just got around to rewatching it now. Still holds up as an excellent match with great performances from both men. Stephanie only adds to the heel side whenever she's taunting Bryan at ringside. Just a quality match all around and I'm so glad that Punk walked out leading to this match. Can't understand why Bryan vs HHH was never in the plans for so long. It was the no-brainer decision to make from the get go after SummerSlam but for whatever reason, they wanted to move away from it with no closure which backfired and also saved WM.

Still haven't seen Shield vs Wyatts part 1 ever since the night it happened but I'll try to get around to it soon.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Last night was a the 3rd time I watched Shield/Wyatts and it still holds up. 

Bryan/HHH on the first watch for me was ****1/4 and then it went up to ****1/2. I love the work over the shoulder and they didn't overuse finishers or anything during the match, which is a plus IMO, where we see it often today to add drama.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Two definitive Ambrose matches vs Sheamus & Bray not getting any love is too bad. 

all of this w/o commenting on the Lumberjack match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The definitive Ambrose (and Rollins for that matter) singles matches of 2014 so far are the FCA AND Lumberjack matches, so of course those would be left out 8*D

That being said, Ambrose has gotten at least half a dozen ***1/2 singles matches more this year, against Sheamus, Bray, Orton, Del Rio and Cesaro twice. Not bad for someone who by last year time "didn't quite live up to the hype" they said :lol.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Nobody mentioned Shield vs. Cena/Sheamus/Bryan on the RAW after Royal Rumble. Scummy. All six men killed it out there. Barrett/Ziggler deserves mention too. Not a top ten match, but very good nonetheless. There's also an Ambrose fatal four way where he successfully defended the US title worth mentioning. And of course all the Usos/Wyatts matches.

Is Extreme Rules 2009 any good? Why do people not like the main event? I haven't seen it since 2011, but I remember thinking it was ok.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

ATF said:


> The definitive Ambrose (and Rollins for that matter) singles matches of 2014 so far are the FCA AND Lumberjack matches, so of course those would be left out 8*D
> 
> That being said, Ambrose has gotten at least half a dozen ***1/2 singles matches more this year, against Sheamus, Bray, Orton, Del Rio and Cesaro twice. Not bad for someone who by last year time "didn't quite live up to the hype" they said :lol.


I have both, Ambrose vs. Sheamus and Ambrose vs. Wyatt at ***1/2. Ambrose has a lot of really good matches this year. A lot.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Nobody mentioned Shield vs. Cena/Sheamus/Bryan on the RAW after Royal Rumble. Scummy. All six men killed it out there. Barrett/Ziggler deserves mention too. Not a top ten match, but very good nonetheless. There's also an Ambrose fatal four way where he successfully defended the US title worth mentioning. And of course all the Usos/Wyatts matches.
> 
> Is Extreme Rules 2009 any good? Why do people not like the main event? I haven't seen it since 2011, but I remember thinking it was ok.


I have all of those matches in my list I keep on another site so I can make a top 75-100 list by the end of the year. :lmao

Shield vs. Cena/Sheamus/Bryan: ***1/2
Barrett vs. Ziggler: ***3/4
Ambrose/Ryback/Axel/ADR: ***1/4
Usos/Wyatts: so many. I think the lowest one I have is a ***1/2.

Sheamus has also had many good matches this year too. If Bryan didn't get hurt, I would have liked to see a slower build for Reigns and Reigns vs. Sheamus in the mid-card, with Sheamus as a heel. I think they'd have the potential to put on some good matches.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Is Extreme Rules 2009 any good? Why do people not like the main event? I haven't seen it since 2011, but I remember thinking it was ok.


Punk/Umaga was ok while Mysterio/Jericho & Hardy/Edge were great, those were the only matches i watched.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Paul Heyman Promo (ECW One Night Stand 2005)*



_Live PPV Version_


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I agree with pretty much all of RatedR10's ratings for those matches, only that out of all the Usos/Wyatts matches I do recall two of them only getting like ***1/4 for me. Rest is ***1/2 onwards, w/MITB and Battleground both getting ***3/4.

Shield/Cena Sheamus & Bryan is badass but it would only scratch the surface of the Shield's best imo, but Barrett/Ziggler is :mark:. Shame on all of you for not mentioning Zayn/Breeze, the Sheamus/Barrett stuff or any of the Shield/Wyatts rematches though. Even the weakest of that saga, the 5/5 one, was ***3/4 worthy imo.

I have a whole list of all ***1/2+ matches for me, with the best ones composing my current top 30:



> TOP 30 MATCHES OF THE YEAR SO FAR
> (****3/4)
> Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn, NXT Arrival
> The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family, Elimination Chamber
> ...





funnyfaces1 said:


> Is Extreme Rules 2009 any good? Why do people not like the main event? I haven't seen it since 2011, but I remember thinking it was ok.


Rey/Jericho rules the world and Swagger/Christian/Dreamer is solid. The Main Event is disliked because, you know, SPOTFEST~. Although it is enjoyable and has some sick spots in it. Everything else is average or cringe-worthy bad. Bad PPV overall.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hardy vs Edge is a shitstorm. Watch as a drinking game. Pound the drinks as the match escalates into worse & worse.

That's a poor event on the whole. Like two matches and neither are great/must see.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I was hoping that you would give me reason to convince me to watch Cena/Show. And for C2D to give me reason to watch Orton/Batista. I already blindly support Punk so I have reason to watch the Umaga match which I don't recall being very good. They had a match on Smackdown that year that ruled.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Zayn/Breeze is a really good match too. It's probably top 15.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Batista vs Orton inside the steel cage is nothing special but it's short and it can not hurt to give it a try. There you got it. Their Judgment Day match is better but that one suffers from a DQ finish. Although I love the pro-Orton crowd from Chicago!

Their best matches are Armageddon 2008 and Raw from November 2004. If you count it, Wrestlemania XXX obviously is the best.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The WeelC match is at least *****


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Expectations were so low for WeeLC. 

It was ridiculously fun though. The fact that Los Matadores and 3MB took the crazy bumps they did helped a lot. It was pretty much a 4-on-3 TLC match.  :lmao


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

At the start of 2014, I thought wrestler of the year was going to be Bryan, dude was out of his mind up until he got injured. Then I felt it was Cesaros prize to lose. Now, it truly is Dean Ambrose and then everyone else. He's been on a straight war path since breaking off into singles, and when you add in all the fabulous tags he had at the start of the year it just doesn't seem possible that someone is going to unseat him. Dean found his groove and is the most consistently fun guy to watch these days. 

I would have mentioned more matches of his but I only did a top 10. If I did a top 20, he'd probably be involved in about 7-8 of them. He is proof positive that it's stupid to give up on guys before they get a real chance to find themselves. Go watch his singles matches from 2013 and compare them with what he's doing now. It's not even that he was bad in 2013, as that's obviously not the case. It's just that he needed to find his footing and get comfortable with his character and decide what kind of wrestler he was going to be. Now that all of those variables are lined up, he's one of the best wrestlers in the entire world. And props to him for working his tail off every single night. I mean we are several months down the road now since he became a singles guy, he's wrestled nearly every week, sometimes twice, and STILL has yet to have a bad match. In fact, all of his matches (I've seen maybe 80% of them) have been atleast good if not great, and are always entertaining.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

2008 RAW Chamber match is great so far. Umaga just came in and he's completely destroying both Y2J and HBK at the moment.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 10 2013 Matches:

(****3/4)
1) Wyatts vs. Shield EC
(****)
2) Brock vs. Cena SS
3) Wyatts vs. Shield 4/8/14 Main Event
4) Bryan vs. HHH WM30
5) Cesaro vs. Cena 2/17/14 Raw
6) Ambrose vs. Rollins 8/18/2014 Raw
7) Barrett vs. Sheamus 4/21/2014 Raw
(***3/4)
8) Wyatt vs. Cena WM30
9) Bryan vs. Orton vs. Cena vs. Cesaro vs. Christian vs. Sheamus EC
10) Barrett vs. Ziggler 6/23/2014 Raw

Honorable mentions go to Usos/Harper and Rown Battleground, Shield/Evolution Extreme Rules, Ambrose/Rollins SS, Bryan/Wyatt RR, and the Shield/Cena-Bryan-Sheamus tag on Raw after RR 2014.

As far as wrestler of the year goes... no idea. Bryan has had plenty of great matches this year, but his year was cut short and what he did do I'm not sure warrants being WOTY. Barrett suffers from the same problem, although in his short 3 months wrestling this year, he's had several great matches, some of Big E's best matches, RVD's best matches since his return, and then a few goodies as well. Bray Wyatt was a fairly big part in the Wyatt/Shield matches being great, and has that great Mania match with Cena under his belt too. Speaking of Cena, he actually appears the most on this list in the EC match, and singles with Wyatt, Cesaro, and Lesnar. Cesaro had one hell of a year too. Sheamus' year wasn't as great as the past couple have been but he's delivered consistently.

Hell come to think of it, it's been a pretty well rounded year tbh. Again, Bryan was looking to take the spot as wrestler of the year, but due to his injury it left the race wide open. I think you could make a strong case for any of the guys I mentioned above as well as some others. Bryan, Barrett, Wyatt, Cena, Ambrose, Cesaro, Sheamus, Rollins... yeah, take your pick.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ambrose is definitely the WOTY as far as I'm concerned. He's not exactly THE best wrestler in the world, but strictly WWE here, can't really nominate someone with as many great matches AND performances as him this year.

Oh, and Barrett is a lovely nomination. Guy was at his in-ring quality peak arguably ever for the 3 months he was there :mark:.



The Fab Four said:


> The WeelC match is at least *****


Wrong. It's at least ****************. That match deserves the world. Had a far better argument for being on the main card than all but Shield/Evolution and Bryan/Kane :bow


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Last year it was Bryan, this year there hasn't really been a clear WOTY. Bryan, Cesaro, Ambrose and Orton really stand out each.

Other than the tag matches leading up to Battleground, the only Orton match I haven't seen is the one with Ambrose on Smackdown from about a month ago. Luckily, it's one of the matches DLed on this Orton pack so I can put it on right now and get it out of the way.



DoubtGin said:


> 2008 RAW Chamber match is great so far. Umaga just came in and he's completely destroying both Y2J and HBK at the moment.


It's a totally awesome match. My third favorite along with the 2005 and 2014 chamber matches.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Top 10 2013 Matches:
> 
> (****3/4)
> 1) Wyatts vs. Shield EC
> ...



No Cesaro/Zayn ArRival in your top 10????!!

Agree, this HAS been a well rounded year from a match quality standpoint. Its the same story as 2013 though, great ring work, bad booking/storylines. Only feud from this year that's had great booking has been Rollins/Ambrose. Lesnar/Cena is up there too but John-boy coming back and beating the entire Wyatt family by himself has made me nervous about how NoC is gonna play out.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Don't forget the Wyatts as possible combined WOTY contenders, y'all. Bray hasn't been on fire in PPV performances lately, admitedly, since has yet to have a truly good PPV match since the Extreme Rules DEBACLE (although you could consider the SS match vs Jericho good, though I only think it's solid at best), but he's had countless good singles performances on TV against the likes of Ambrose, Sheamus and Big Show, he played a major part in the Shield/Wyatts matches as well as any other succesful 6-man tags the stable's had, a fucking great match against Cena @ WM 30, and of course the Bryan classic from the Rumble. And the other two have been absolutely killer in pretty much everything they've been - yes, even Rowan surprisingly, who I wouldn't give much for last year. Highlighting of course the Usos stuff, but also some gems like the Show & Henry and Rhodes Bros ones. Harper even had some stellar stuff all by himself, nominately the Cena matches, especially Smackdown. The whole stable had the Shield classics obviously, and also a few more quite good 6-man tags like the Sheamus/Usos and Cena/Sheamus/Big E ones. Wyatts: top contenders in my estimation too.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

*Bryan/Triple H at WMXXX* is still my MOTY. For some reason, Wyatt/Shield EC doesn't stay with me as much, but I'm about to give it another watch. Have never re-watched it.

I've watched Bryan/Triple H at least four times, and every time it just keeps getting better and better.

Neither one of them are people I really care about, yet that match still really resonated with me. It's especially impressive, because unlike many here, I knew that it was a forgone conclusion that Bryan would win, so it's not like I felt any suspense at all. Yet still it was a beautiful match, that had my attention the entire time. 

Can't think of one thing I'd change about it, from the setting, to the entrances, to Steph, to the in-ring work, etc. What I loved the most, was that it had so many different peaks at different times. Can't choose just one. It was a roller coaster done right, and nothing seemed inauthentic.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

2013's storylines and feuds really aren't that much worse than most other years. That distinction of good wrestling and bad booking/feuds goes to 2012 or maybe 2006. But 2013 had a lot of good/great feuds.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> No Cesaro/Zayn ArRival in your top 10????!!


I don't do NXT matches because I simply don't watch enough of it... in fact, Arrival is the only NXT event I've watched and I only really watched Cesaro/Zayn honestly. Was an awesome match and would be number 2 if I included NXT matches. I keep my lists strictly WWE unless otherwise stated.

As for The Wyatts as a whole being WOTY, I'll never do that for the same reason I never even thought about considering The Shield as the combined Wrestler of the Year... it just seems stupid to me to put three guys in one spot. Even if all they did were tag matches and they were putting on MOTYC every single night, I'd try to figure out who was the responsible for those matches being as great as they were and go from there.

Yeah, 2013 WOTY was definitely Bryan. This year is just too well rounded though. Wouldn't put Orton as WOTYC, nor a guy like Rowan who was a part of those awesome 6-man tags against The Shield... Harper deserves a lot of respect though. I suppose if I had a gun to my head and had to pick someone as my WOTY, I'd probably go with... um... eh... I guess I'd go with Rollins. But it's just too close and that could change tomorrow (it could change in a few minutes tbh).

Edit: On Bryan/HHH, it was a great match but it felt like it was missing a big piece. Not to mention, I don't think the arm work by HHH or even Bryan's selling were OMGAMAZING!!!!... just some really good/great stuff. What I like about the match though is it left a lot open so they don't have to repeat it if they go at it again, they can have a proper finishing sequence and it could potentially be a classic. The Mania match wasn't, but it was still MOTN and a top opening Mania match of all time.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bryan/HHH :mark: Love it. Love Trips' heel work, his control segments, the extra dynamic with Steph on the outside adding to the whole story, plus he busted out a great little Tiger Suplex to boot too.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

For my money, WOTY 2014 is a slim margin now but will end up a runaway for Ambrose. Just look at this cat. Keep in mind that Ambrose has had a pretty wide range of great match types and opponents and while most of the year has been a lunatic has conveyed that persona in several stories and has switch hit so to speak with great results each side and the scary thing is he is just now hitting his highest stride and we still got a full 4 months. 
Wyatt/Ambrose SD ***1/2)
Shield/Evo ER ****¼ 6th MOTY
Shield/Wyatts I ***** My MOTY
Shield/Wyatts II **** Tie for top 10
Shield/Wyatts ME ***¾ 
Shield/Cena Sheam Bryan ***
FCA ****1/4 Top 10
LJ **** top 20
Triple threat SD for US title
vs Orton SD ***
vs Orton RAW ***1/4
Cesaro No DQ ***1/2
ADR BTC ***1/2
3 on 11 HC match ***1/4
Shield/Bryan Mysterio Sheam ***
both Barrett matches ***
MITB (Tie top 10)


Cesaro is his direct challenger and just pound for pound of matches *** or better (my mark for a good match), has one more than Ambrose though doesn't boast the same versatility spanning those matches and has been allowed to showcase more than Ambrose who really hasn't broken out as an individual performer until Shield/Wyatts. I think Ces will slip abit though considering Ambrose especially and Rollins too have sky high stocks in regular showcases w/ investment while Cesaro is in the shuffle and is becoming apathetic. He still boasts a real nice list this year that I may have even undershot since I dont remember every RA match and if the year ended right now has his strong case for WOTY

vs Zayn Arrival ****1/2 my 2nd MOTY
vs Cena Raw Feb ****½ Ny 3rd MOTY
vs Cena raw recently ***¾ .
vs Orton SD Feb ***½ last rewatch
RA vs Rhodes Bros ***1/2
vs Dean no DQ SD ***1/2
EC (standout in this) **** top 10 
good performance Andre Battle Royal
3 on 4 Handicap match SD ***1/2
rematch on raw ***
vs Bryan la mystica finish ***½ 
vs Bryan DQ finish ***
Sheamus/Cesaro PB ***1/4
vs Sheamus SD PB rematch ***
RA vs Usos RAW March ***
vs Dolph EC qualifier ***
vs Swagger Hogan’s birthday ***
vs Swagger SD shortly after mania ***1/4

Rollins has a decent catologue as well with some nice feats such as getting RVD's best match with PSYCHOLOGY OUT OF RVD and like Ambrose has versatility and his stock is rising. Year's end I predict he will be number two. 

Luke Harper is my darkhorse especially when he himself never turns in a bad performance and in his good matches always seems to be the top performer.

Bryan has hit alot of high points and high quality, was on a great roll but alas has been injured and hence doesn't quite have the quantity to be the frontrunner in my eyes.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'd say that Ambrose is WOTY by a decent margin at the very least. He's been on fire since turning face, and there's also The Shield matches of course. Cesaro's also been awesome, and Bryan was obviously putting in good work before his injury. The first few months of this year were :trips5 in terms of match quality.


----------



## Rap God (Mar 12, 2014)

Damn , Bryan should return and put on some awesome matches otherwise the streak will be dead


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

2014 - _The year where streaks died_

I like it.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

I just watched The Shield vs Wyatts from Elimination Chamber and that match is still just as tremendous as the first time I saw it. I can totally accept that being the match of the year, or at least a very strong contender for it, I'll watch Bryan vs Triple H soon to see how it stacks up.

Also when was the second Shield vs. Wyatts match? Was that an episode of Raw? I might have to watch that again. Along with the Main Event match as I'm not sure if I even saw that one.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Co-sign for Ambrose being WotY.

Shield/Wyatts II was on the 3/3 edition of Raw.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Twisted14 said:


> I just watched The Shield vs Wyatts from Elimination Chamber and that match is still just as tremendous as the first time I saw it. I can totally accept that being the match of the year, or at least a very strong contender for it, I'll watch Bryan vs Triple H soon to see how it stacks up.
> 
> Also when was the second Shield vs. Wyatts match? Was that an episode of Raw? I might have to watch that again. Along with the Main Event match as I'm not sure if I even saw that one.


They had three other television matches. All of them ruled. There's the Chicago match on March 3rd, the Main Event match on April 8, and the New York one on May 5.

EDIT: :lmao this Edge/Jeff ladder match is God damn terrible. So many botched spots. No attempt at grabbing the titles, yet no attempt either at fighting each other with weapons. Instead, the ladders were just props that fll apart after getting touched. No flow, rhyme, or reason behind anything. Ending was good though. Post-match was best.


----------



## JordanRose (Apr 12, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> *Bryan/Triple H at WMXXX* is still my MOTY. For some reason, Wyatt/Shield EC doesn't stay with me as much, but I'm about to give it another watch. Have never re-watched it.
> 
> I've watched Bryan/Triple H at least four times, and every time it just keeps getting better and better.
> 
> ...


Funny how Bret has gone out of his way to criticise Hunter's matches with Taker but hasn't said a word about this one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Probably b/c he knows Bryan Danielson is why it was a good match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Bryan was obviously awesome, but HHH himself didn't clock in a great performance as well or anything 8*D

Just did a small research on my ***1/2+ matches list of the year, and in fact, combined w/all else of good he's had this year, Ambrose definitely wins the WOTY award and I wouldn't even say it's close because it's not (even just counting singles matches he beats everyone, although I am counting everything here):

Shield vs Wyatts EC, ****3/4
vs Rollins FCA, ****1/4
Shield vs Evolution ER, ****1/4
Shield vs Wyatts III, ****1/4
Shield vs Wyatts II, ****
MITB Ladder match, ****
vs Rollins SS, ***3/4
Shield vs Wyatts IV, ***3/4
Shield vs Real Americans, ***1/2
Shield vs Cena, Bryan & Sheamus, ***1/2
vs Sheamus US Title, ***1/2
vs Cesaro No DQ, ***1/2
Shield vs Bryan, Sheamus & Christian, ***1/2
vs Wyatt SD, ***1/2
vs Orton Raw, ***1/2
vs Cesaro Raw, ***1/2
vs ADR Beat The Clock, ***1/2
vs Cesaro III, ***1/4
Shield vs Bryan, Rey & Sheamus, ***1/4
Shield vs ADR, Barrett, Sandow, Ryback & O'Neil, ***1/4
vs ADR vs Ryback vs Axel, ***1/4
w/Cena & Reigns vs Wyatts, ***1/4
vs Barrett SD, ***1/4
Shield vs Real Americans vs Rybaxel vs 3MB, ***
vs Barrett Raw, ***

And I haven't even seen everything yet so God knows if there isn't a left for dead gem out there. Can't wait to see Ambrose return at NOC (at least that's what it has been said it's gonna happen) and AMBROSE/ROLLINS HIAC.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

I doubt that Rollins and Ambrose will have a HIAC match. But I agree that his return will be awesome.

You guys are convincing me that Ambrose has quite possibly been the best performer of the year. But what about Rollins? I'd have to assume he's a good contender.

It's a real shame Bryan will likely be out for the rest of the year, as he was on track to being the best performer. He had a spectacular 5 or so months.

I just watched that Hardy/Edge ladder match and I disagree with you funnyfaces. I think it was a pretty good match, though not great. A couple of the spots were a bit over done, and boy were those ladders flimsy (and also made of wood). But it's a better match than you let on there.

The match made me wonder what you guys would place as the worst ladder match. I was thinking that my pick would probably be Christian vs. Shelton Benjamin from I believe one of the early TLC shows. That match was real spotty and sloppy. It's been a couple of years since I saw it but I really didn't like it.

What do you guys think?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Christian vs Shelton or Hardy vs Edge. Pick your poison, I say. Both terrible.

And Seth Roll's year is clearly good, but a number of his singles matches since breaking away doesn't even compare to what Ambrose _(among others)_ have produced. Rollins himself has been good, rather than the matches have been noteworthy.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Worst ladder match? RVD Vs Jeff Hardy from SummerSlam SCREAMS hello. RVD/Sabu is a contender too. Both of those make Shelton/Christian look like a fucking ***** classic.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd take RVD vs Jeff nonsense over Christian vs Shelton.

RVD vs Sabu is on another level.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Worst Ladder match ever? RVD/Sabu is the right answer. Kinda like what Cal said, Christian/Shelton is fucking Benoit/Jericho compared to RVD/Sabu. That is Wrestlecrap at its finest. Although it is kinda fucking hilarious in its badness :lmao.

And what about the worst TLC match? I didn't enjoy JeriShow/DX all that much.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watching Vengeance 2006. Not even CENA in a wwe title match could make the main event with DX around :lmao.

Edit: Wait... huh? I could have SWORN the title match here was a triple threat involving Cena. The fuck is Cena doing on the show *looks at the card* :lmao Lumberjack match with Sabu :lmao. AND IT'S STILL ABOVE THE WWE TITLE MATCH :lmao.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Check that again, Cal. 

It's actually funnier of a scenario than you think .In regards to where the WWE Championship match is.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Edited my post already .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh God that Cena/Sabu match :lmao

In my memory the actual WWE Title match (RVD/Edge) was actually very good, and the main event w/DX was somewhat fun. Just in memory though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Told you it was funnier.

God that show sucks.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So when the fuck was the triple threat? Did it even ever happen? Raw? Or one of those Saturday Night's Main Event shows?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

RAW a few weeks after that PPV.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ahhh ok. So it did happen. At least I knew it was a thing and didn't make it up .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It went RVD vs Cena the night on RAW after the PPV. Then the following week it was meant to be a Triple Threat tag, but it was "canned" that night in favor for an impromptu triple threat for the championship - which was originally slated for SNME but was switched b/c of course RVD got busted - & then you know the rest. Edge won, RVD was punished, Edge vs Cena would commence, etc.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

I watched both the Sabu/RVD ladder match and the 'Extreme' Lumberjack match and they aren't THAT bad. The latter is actually decent while it lasts and kinda fun. The ladder match is certainly sloppy and the finish is silly, but it's alright. I guess in saying that it probably still is one of the worst ladder matches, but it's still an alright match.

Going to watch the Christian/Benjamin again now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Vengeance 2006*

Didn't have to take the wrapping off this one! I took it off a few months ago with the intention of watching it and... never did . I did go through the bonus disc that my version came with. Just filled with a bunch of 2006 DX stuff so... not great .

"RIC FLAIR IS MY GREAT GRANDPA! and "TNA" signs spotted immediately lol.


*Randy Orton Vs Kurt Angle*

Raw Vs ECW match? Cena Vs Sabu? And the title match is Edge Vs RVD? The fuck is this, ECW One Night Stand 3?

Let's hope this one is better than their ECW ONS match anyway. That one had some good parts to it, but suffered from too many flaws to actually be good.

Still hate that damn ECW remix of Angle's theme.

Man, crazy cover attempt by Angle using a hammer lock! That was pretty sweeeeet.

Orton keeps running to the ropes like a PUSSY, so Angle tryes to penetrate him from behind as punishment. Either that or he was trying for a German Suplex off the apon :side:.

The apron German failed, but a German on the floor lands and Orton is DEAD.

:lmao Angle is circling Orton trying to hit a double leg or something, and Orton thumbs him right in the eye and hits a dropkick! Even the fans have to cheer that one lol.

HEADLOCK~! Angle says fuck that and lifts Orton off the ground and hits a modified Samoan Drop! Take THAT, headlocks!

"CARLITO SPITS, MELINA SWALLOWS" sign :lmao. Wouldn't surprise me if they both swallowed :side:.

HEADLOCK~! This time Orton has it locked in and not even Angle can escape it with ease. Looks real good too. Orton really makes it look like he's trying to pop his opponents head with it.

:lmao a botched belly to belly off the ropes.

MULTIPLE GERMANS~! 8 of them. Pfft. I guess that makes Lensar twice as good as Angle 8*D.

Strange modified Angle Slam thingy... JR just calls it a suplex. Fuck knows exactly what he was trying to do .

ANKLE LOCK~!

:lmao at the way they set up Angle going head first into the exposed turnbuckle :lmao.

RKO~!

ORTON WINS~!

Well... this was a little better than their ONS match. Still had problems, the main one being that they didn't "click" for me. These two just don't have great chemistry.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


Vince is being a creepy bastard to a make a wish kid, thinking it's a setup from DX :lmao. He pushes the kid out of his room, and we just hear him scream and crash into something :lmao. Turns out he's a family friend of THE COACH who was invited to meet his hero, Mr McMahon .


*Umaga Vs Eugene*

I knew JR was wrong! I said during my Unforgiven ramble that JR said that was Umaga's first PPV match. LIES JR. FUCKING LIES.

Eugene has brought some friends with him. And they aren't even imaginary!!! Though one of them is as retarded as Eugene... HOOOOOOOOOO! JIM DUGGAN! Doink the Clown is back! I miss Matt Bourne Heel Doink . KAMALA!

Well, how can Eugene possibly lose these match? He has 3 old men in his corner!

This lasts about 2 minutes, and Eugene is squashed . Then Umaga squashes the old men, except for Kamala, because Estrada tells Umaga he's crazy and they should avoid him lol.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Ric Flair Vs Mick Foley - 2 out of 3 Falls Match*

*sigh* I guess I'll sit through this one. It does have 2 legends.

So so so so so disappointed with this when I first saw it. Sure they made up for it at SummerSlam, but damn, this sucked. Doubt much will change on this watch, but I'd just feel wrong NO'ing a match between these two.

Foley said he's gonna out-wrestle Flair tonight, but so far he ain't doing so well .

If wrestling don't work, then a punch to the fucking FACE will .

:lmao a Ric Flair version of Socko :lmao.

TESTICULAR CLAW~!

Flair successfully flies off the ropes... and hurts his knee! :lmao Lawler says he would have been better off getting bodyslammed .

FOLEY TARGETING THE LEG COS HE'S A RASSLER~!

Flair counters a Figure Four attempt with a cradle and the first fall goes to Flair!

Flair starts to beat the shit out of Foley, who gets angry and brings a trash can into the ring! Flair counters with a Figure Four, and Foley escapes with a shot to Flair using the trash can! Foley gets DQ'd, and loses 2 straight falls!

Ya know, this wasn't as awful as I remembered it being. Sure, it was still disappointing, but they had a pretty fun match and this was only really a set up to their I Quit match at SummerSlam, so being able to look back on it that way does make it seem better.

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


Maria's tits are interviewing Carlito. Then Torrie Wilson and her tits show up and Maria rubs oil on her for a photoshoot. Then for some reason Torrie rubs oil on Maria's ass even though she isn't doing a photoshoot. Carlito's music hits and he needs to head out to the ring instead of watching some HLA .


*Carlito Vs Shelton Benjamin Vs Johnny Nitro - WWE Intercontinental Championship Match*

MELINA LOOKING FAP!

:lmao heel Shelton. An open shirt and sunglasses. THAT WAS HIS ENTIRE CHARACTER :lmao.

Typical triple threat stuff for the most part.

:lmao Nitro sends Carlito head first into the ring post, then shouts "Now THAT'S cool!".

Flippy flippy flippy flippy.

Say what you want, but these microwave cheesburgers, or BUUUUURGUUURS as they are know to me and my friend (private joke. so fuck you all!  ), are bloody lovely. Sure a REAL burger would be better, but when it's 2 for 89p and they are ready in a minute and a half, you really can't complain. 

Ooops, best get back to talking about the match. Seems I missed some more flippy flippy flippy flippy.

HOLY SHIT, DID YOU SEE THAT? MORE FLIPPY FLIPPY FLIPPY FLIPPY~!

Melina is the only good thing in this match. Smoking hot and always bending over to show her tits, screaming, and helping out Nitro any chance she gets.

After doing a quick google search, I was able to find some footage of these 3 men backstage discussing what they plan to do in the match!

"Hey guys, I have an idea tonight for the match. LET'S DO LOTS OF RANDOM MOVES AND FLIPS!!!"

"OH WOW THAT'S GREAT LET'S DO THAT!!!"



Fuck me how long is this match? It seems to be going on forever.

FINALLY. Nitro wins the IC title and the match is OVER.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


VINCE MCMAHON TRIES A PENIS PUMP~! IT EXPLODES GREEN PAINT ON HIM INSTEAD~!


*RVD Vs Edge - WWE Championship Match*

:lmao this isn't even the main event :lmao.

GOD DAMN. LITA. FAP FAP FAP.

Edge says he and LITA are gonna have another LIVE SEX CELEBRATION if he wins the title here tonight. Well, I guess I'm rooting for Edge tonight!!! 

Fuck me, this is starting off like the triple threat. FLIPPY FLIPPY FLIPPY FLIPPY. And not just RVD either. Even Edge took to the ropes.

SUNSET FLIP POWERBOMB OFF THE APRON TO THE FLOOR~!

RVD totally deserved that. HE KICKED LITA IN THE CHEST. Lawler thinks she might have a chest injury. For someone like Lita that could be life threatening!!!

:mark: RVD does that jumping spinning leg drop thing from the apron to the barricade... and Edge moves, leaving RVD to land HARD on his leg!!! Then Edge throws him out of the ring about 30 seconds later and his leg gets caught in the ropes and he just crumbles to the floor .

POWERBOMB ONTO THE BARRICADE. FUCK ME.










The powerbomb to RVD's back allows Edge to continue to capitalise on the sunset flip powerbomb from earlier, so nice that Edge is sticking with his original plan, even after RVD's leg got fucked up.

Shame Edge's back work lasts about a minute before RVD is flippy flippy flippy flippy again. Fucks sake.

Ref bump. Edge tries to cheat. Gets the title belt kicked in his face. Lita crushes RVD's balls, and Edge follows up with an awesome DDT. BUT OH NOES THE REFEREE IS DEAD.

:lmao Edge spears a chair.

Five Star Frog Splash aka FLIPPY FLIPPY FLIPPY FLIPPY FINISHER and RVD retains.

Well this was... kinda shite. A fuck load of nothing happens, then just as things start to look up with Edge working the back, RVD makes a comeback almost straight away and fails to sell his back, his leg, or anything really. BULL. SHIT.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Kane Vs Imposter Kane*

:lmao oh god I totally forgot this was on the show :lmao. What an AWFUL storyline that was dropped harder than Bart Gunn at WrestleMania XV.

Festus is actually a pretty good fake Kane, in terms of acting like Kane. They should have gotten Kevin Nash to play the imposter Kane 8*D.

The crowd are as dead for this match as they were for Undertaker Vs Underfaker at SummerSlam in 94 :lmao.

Damn, was just reading that Kane was supposed to win the WHC on May 19th, but due to his commitments with the See No Evil movie, he actually requested that the plans would be changed! So instead of Kane being WHC, we got this angle :lmao.

What the FUCK was that? Kane tried to kinda superplex the imposter Kane, but it was more of a superplex combined with a back body drop lol. Looked fucking great tbh, but definitely seemed botched .

IMPOSTER KANE CATCHES KANE OFF THE ROPES~! CHOKESLAM~! IMPOSTER KANE JUST WON!!! :lmao

Honestly, this isn't as bad as I remembered. They have a pretty good big man brawl. Crowd couldn't have cared less, but meh, fuck them. Nothing special, but I don't regret watching it.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*John Cena Vs Sabu - Extreme Lumberjack Match*

Stuff happens. Yawn.

Cena is in control, then notices the Lumberjacks and fighting and... fucks off to the outside to join them instead of TRYING TO WIN THE MATCH. Fucking retard. Sabu throws a chair in his face to knock some sense into him.

Cena is set up on a table, but BIG VIS throws all the ECW guys away giving Cena chance to move and deck Sabu with a singapore cane.

:lmao F-U over the ropes to the table, but Sabu only cracks part of the table and possibly injured his back. STFU and Sabu taps out.

My god this was a giant load of fuck all. I've seen better TNA matches in 2014 than this shite. Wait... not sure about that. Anyway, the point it, this sucks.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*DX Vs The Spirit Squad*

:lmao what a PPV main event!!! 2 old men pretending to be 20 and a group of male cheerleaders!

MITCH IS BEATING UP SHAWN MICHAELS!!! Who the fuck was Mitch again?

:lmao Johnny gets his nose buster open, and puts on a headband and stars acting like he's a martial arts expert. Shawn is terrified so he tags HHH in... WHO PUNCHES HIM IN THE NOSE :lmao.

:lmao poor Johnny. Punched in his busted nose. Balls smashed into the ring post, and his legs wrapped around the post too, causing him to be all wobbly legged :lmao.

:lmao it takes THREE Spirit Squad dudes to throw HHH into the ring steps.

CHAIR TO HBK'S FACE~!

:lmao TRAMPOLINE AIDED BULLDOG~!

:lmao HHH threw the trampoline at the Spirit Squad :lmao.

In the end, DX win.

This wasn't bad or anything, but I kinda zoned out during the HBK FIP segment. Some funny moments spread throughout the match, but nothing that really kept me entertained throughout the whole thing.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 3*​


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Okay, Christian/Benjamin is far better than I remembered. It helps that I watched it right after the lesser RVD/Sabu match, but it felt much less forced and choreographed than when I last saw it. I remembered feeling irritated by all of that but not as much this time. The bullshit where they had to stop the match to clean the cut was bullshit and almost entirely killed the match though.

Some of the spots are blown but not that many and they recovered from them fairly well, unlike Sabu and RVD.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Stopped watching at the time so i missed the Kane/Fake Kane stuff lol. I do remember seeing a pic of fake Kane with seemingly massive 1980's power hair. though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Bad Cal. RVD/Edge is really good imo. It's flawed by RVD's lack of selling (but that's RVD for ya), but Edge was WAY too good in it for me to not at least enjoy it. And tbh, that "flippy" thing at the beggining didn't really bother me. So I can say that I liked that match WAAAAYYY more than you did. 

Also, didn't expect that high of a rating to Flair/Foley. That was kinda surprising. And I kinda expected a higher rating for the Main Event too. I have to say that I kinda marked out when I saw Nicky in there with HBK, since it was kinda a dream match... because you guys know who Nicky would wind up being :ziggler2

So I guess No Mercy next, right? MATT/HELMS :mark: LONDRICK/KC JAMES & SANDOW :mark: LAYLA'S ASS :mark::mark::mark: A LOCAL JOBBER PUNCHING MVP FOR TWO SECONDS :mark: KENNEDY PILEDRIVING TAKER :mark: REY/CHAVO AND DA HATE :mark: BENOIT/REGAL :mark::mark::mark: FINLAY IN THE MAIN EVENT :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I want to go through these 2006 non-PPVs now. It's be huge nostalgia for me. It'd also suck, though, so IDK.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Make sure to avoid anything from RAW that year. That is a must. But check out some CM Punk and Mike Knox stuff from ECW. Hidden gems. We all know how Smackdown goes.

RVD/Sabu is probably the worst ladder match ever in the WWE. Some other poor ones are Austin vs. McMahons, the Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels 3SOH ladder match, Christian/Benjamin, and Edge/Christian.

I have no clue why Cal didn't NO half that show. Just awful. And there was no need for that show either. The buildup to it was nonexistent. RVD vs. Edge is great. I like Angle vs. Orton. LOL at everything else.

Anyone else listen to these Attitude Era podcasts?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Little late on all of this conversation but the Hardy/Edge Ladder match is terrible. I hate the ending so much. Rey/Jericho from that PPV is great though. So much innovation with a steel chair.

Based on the incredible individual performances he had through the first 5 months of the year, Bryan still has to be my WOTY. The guy had a ***3/4+ match on 4 straight PPVs and he had two on WrestleMania! Ambrose is in 2nd because of the tear he's been on but I don't think anyone else comes close to those two. 



Jarsy1 said:


> Damn , Bryan should return and put on some awesome matches otherwise the streak will be dead


How the hell did Bryan get wrestler of the year in 2010 and 2011? I don't agree with that at all. 

EDIT: Wait, I forgot Bryan still worked DGUSA in 2010 before coming to WWE. Never mind, that makes sense now. Not sure about 2011 though. That could be Orton, Christian, Punk, etc.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, me and my girlfriend decided to sit down and watch a random PPV, and she chose NOC 2012 because of Punk/Cena. On rewatch, here are my ratings for that entire show:

Pre-show Battle Royal: **1/4
Miz/Rey/Cody/Cara: ***
Air Truth/TEAM HELL MOTHERFUCKING NO: **3/4
Cesaro/Ryder: **3/4
Orton/Ziggler: **1/4
Layla/Eve: *3/4
Sheamus/ADR: ***3/4
Punk/Cena: ****1/4

Between being a Krispin Wah fan and picking this show because of the ME, my gf's got awesome taste :mark:

I've heard some people say Orton/Ziggler stole the show. NOPE. WRONG. It was quite boring for a lot of it, and for someone who's actually quite sound in the term of smart wrestling, I didn't like Orton's selling here tbf. It had its moments, but it's just not good stuff.

The first three matches though. Very fun opener. TEAM HELL NO completely carried the match against Air Truth. Cesaro carried his. Eve carried hers. And DEM MAIN EVENT MATCHES. Sheamus/ADR was a hell of a lot better than I remembered, it had the intensity that I'd expect out of the two men involved, some sound storytelling surrounding the Brogue Kick and, despite the outcome being obvious as hell, it actually had some compelling false finishes. PUNK/CENA THOUGH. DAMN. It suffered from going overboard with finishers and a meh ending (ROCK BOTTOMS THO), but the 1st half of this match is a thing of utter beauty. Combined w/the iffy but explosive 2nd? Fucking awesome match.

Really good show overall .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah, I usually disagree with most things ff says about 2005 and 2006 but I agree with Vengeance being mostly miss with only two good matches (Orton/Angle and Edge/RVD). I can't figure out CAL in this one. He loves NO'ing half the shows but went through this one and even gave piece of shits like Kane/Imposter and that dreadful DX/SS match a higher rating than the WWE Championship match. That main event is on par with HBK/HHH from HIAC and HBK/Bret Ironman in terms of matches that I will never, ever watch again.

I used to like Orton vs Ziggler from NOC first time but when I rewatched it for my list last year, it was pretty underwhelming and felt like 20 minutes of nothing. Orton flipping off the crowd was the only highlight tbh. Only Orton/Ziggler matches that I've really enjoyed are the one from Raw 29/8/2011 and the match on the last Smackdown of 2013 when Ziggler had the pink hair.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Me and my gf almost died in laughter from Orton flipping the bird :lmao

Honestly, I know you want it so that he faces Lesnar at SVS in his hometown, but after seeing... THAT, as well as knowing that w/the exception of his 2011 and a few other chops and bits here and there, his babyface runs have all really sucked, I hope to God that Randy doesn't ever turn face again. He's a natural heel. Plus, monster heel vs. cheating and sneaky bastard with a dangerous sense heel in a competition of CONQUERING vs. CHEATING sounds :mark: to me. The crowd would naturally be behind Orton anyway since he IS Orton and they are St. Louis (which is a crowd that more often than not kinda sucks) .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Little late on all of this conversation but the Hardy/Edge Ladder match is terrible. I hate the ending so much. Rey/Jericho from that PPV is great though. So much innovation with a steel chair.
> 
> Based on the incredible individual performances he had through the first 5 months of the year, Bryan still has to be my WOTY. The guy had a ***3/4+ match on 4 straight PPVs and he had two on WrestleMania! Ambrose is in 2nd because of the tear he's been on but I don't think anyone else comes close to those two.
> 
> ...



That chart isn't for Wrestler of the Year, it's for Best Technical Wrestler. Whatever the fuck that means. They should scrap that nonsense title and just have it be Worker of the Year or something. And if it was just worker of the year, I don't think Danielson would have had a clean sweep since 2005. Here is how I'd break it down:

2000: Triple H
2001: Steve Austin
2002: Eddie Guerrero
2003: Brock Lesnar
2004: Chris Benoit
2005: Samoa Joe 
2006: Chris Benoit (or if you want to disqualify him for missing 5 months, Finlay would be the pick)
2007: Bryan Danielson
2008: Undertaker (Danielson would be a CLOSE runner up, from what I've seen)
2009: Christian
2010: Bryan Danielson (Haven't seen enough of this year to disagree with PWI)
2011: Bryan Danielson or Mark Henry
2012: CM Punk
2013: Bryan Danielson
2014: Dean Ambrose (so far...)

Obviously this is US only, no clue if we included Mexico and Japan.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That crowd was shit and they deserved it. Orton can be a good babyface performer, though. His one match with Brock features a pretty good performance but naturally, it's because he was still innocent rookie with the shaggy hair then, which made the crowd react to his comeback pretty well. I honestly don't care if he's face or heel as long as we GET THE DAMN MATCH.

St. Louis will never suck for the simple fact they gave us this epic moment.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, SVS is the perfect opportunity. It seems that Lesnar will indeed wrestle more times this year on PPV, so why not unleash Orton on him in his hometown? Because fuck knows who else Brock would wrestle at SVS if he's doing that show anyway. Cena again? Bitch please. Reigns? Mehland. Only other option is Ambrose really, who I'd be completely fine with if they don't go with Orton. But in St. Louis and w/the justification of it being "Orton being given another opportunity by the Authority", Lesnar/Orton at SVS writes itself. Heel vs. heel recipe, Orton goes COKE MODE (while still getting fan support), Lesnar goes BEAST MODE, MOTYC right there. And I'm not even a big time Orton fan like you are C2D, but knowing that as of lately he seems to actually care (as shown in the Reigns match and the RVD beatdown) and that he may care if the match does happen, even I can see the seas of potential that match has.

Speaking of Orton on COKE MODE, I watched the No DQ match against the GOAT himself earlier this year. Why doesn't it get more recognition? Match is quite good. Orton was on coke. He could've ONLY been on coke. Because he MAGICAL in this match, like biblical good. Never thought I'd say this in 2014, but he totally outshined Bryan in my book. And Bryan was simply Bryan, and that equals he was badfuckingass. But this was The Randy Orton Show. "THERE IS NO BELL TO RIIIIINGGGGG!!!" :lmao. I'm indecise between ***1/4 and ***1/2, if it wasn't for the rushed ending I'd give it ***1/2 in a nutshell.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It's funny you mention it because I watched that street fight again yesterday. Yeah, could've been another classic had they not rushed the ending. It was just so stupid when the match is picking up and Batista shows up and Orton goes down with a fucking spear. Orton is the best when he's in trash-talk mode. "THERE'S NO DQ!"

He was on fire last month when he gave Reigns that beating. "This is what happens to people who steal from me". :lmao

I have no doubts that he will show up for a match with BROCK.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I don't think i've seen that Feb Bryan/Orton match.  Adore their December Raw match, so ill have to watch it soon.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Orton/Bryan 2/3/2014 is just amazing. Some of the best limbwork you'll see all year long. Not as good as the December one which was babyface vs. heel performances 101, but a completely worthy sequel.

I'll go as far as to say that the No DQ match w/Bryan was Orton's best performance all year, so far. Yes, even better than the February 3rd one. And arguably up there with the 12/16/2013 one as his best performance since 2009. It did get 14 minutes apparently, which I recall being like twice as much as I thought it was :lol. Maybe I'm so used to Orton matches being more methodically paced that I lost track of time when I actually got a faster paced one .

Oh, and yeah, that Reigns beatdown was super. Even better than the RVD one. Why isn't THAT Orton with us forever, Goddammit? . If there will indeed be a Brock match, that Orton better show up. He sorta showed up at SS against Reigns of all people (though that was more carrying-rookies mode Orton), so against Brock it should be even easier.

I still don't know what to give the No DQ match, btw :lmao. I guess I can say it was as good if not better than last year's Street Fight, though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just realised the No DQ match was in March lol, and the other one was in Feb. Havn't seen either then.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Go out of your way to see both. They're both awesome. Especially February which rules the world .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

What a strange coincidence. I was bored yesterday and looking for something to watch, so I started browsing Raw episodes on the Network and came across the December and February Bryan/Orton matches. Watched them both back to back, I agree they are both amazing. The December match makes my top 10 for 2013, it's that good. I really don't know why they weren't able to give that kind of match at NoC, BG, or HiaC, but I'm happy they did finally click and deliver greatness. I like how Bryan really got to shine for a while in the start of the match, he set the pace and Orton made him look vicious. Then the finish was really just perfection. I mean, they picked the perfect high point to have Orton cheat his way out and keep Bryan looking strong without making Orton look weak.

If I had to give ratings the December match would get ****1/4 and the February match would get ***3/4. Both were excellent, and made me miss Bryan a lot


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I have to rewatch them both, but the December match is Bryan and Orton's best match and I think I have it ***3/4. The second best in Feb or March or whenever I have at ***1/4-***1/2. Bryan and Orton really don't have a ton of chemistry, but at least they have some great matches to their name in the sea of mediocrity.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Is this all of Brock's live promos since returning? I believe it is but am unsure. I don't think he talked during the Show feud and again don't think outside of the office invasion he said anything during the HHH feud. 





 (0:19-0:40)












 (5:16-6:18)




 (2:16-3:15)

Brock since returning on live promos has the very weird distinction of being a guy who is god awful with delivery and word emphasis yet even his live promos certainly his taped to me are certainly more real and to me more watchable/listenable than the the roster save for Heyman, HHH, Brose, Bray, serious Jericho, if given material Henry, "coked" Randal and on his game Cena. (Harper would be up there but sometimes his over emphasis is distracting to me) Weird that of current guys to listen to, Id have Brock top 10. Cue the Farnsworth Whaaaaaa


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

If he bought some of his UFC stuff into WWE, in terms of intensity, it would be even better.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That last paragraph of WrestlingOracle's post made as much sense as a Brock Lesnar promo :lmao

The UFC promos were good, but the standards of promo-cutting in UFC are very low. Put Big E in that environment and even he sounds good there.

Punk/Umaga and Mysterio/Jericho from Extreme Rules 2009 are real good. I haven't even touched the RAW material. Who's idea was it to put William Regal in the vicinity of Kofi Kingston?


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> That last paragraph of WrestlingOracle's post made as much sense as a Brock Lesnar promo :lmao
> 
> The UFC promos were good, but the standards of promo-cutting in UFC are very low. Put Big E in that environment and even he sounds good there.
> 
> Punk/Umaga and Mysterio/Jericho from Extreme Rules 2009 are real good. I haven't even touched the RAW material. Who's idea was it to put William Regal in the vicinity of Kofi Kingston?


I'm not even sure I can make sense of it myself. It is strange indeed. Speaking of Big E, what happened to that guy? I remember him having some athletic matches with Rusev working the pastor E voice and then was slated for a new NOD but havent seen him since.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm part of the group that thinks the best Orton/Bryan match is from February this year with the December Raw match coming very close. Was undecided at first but after last time watching both, February just took the lead with ease. I think their PPV matches are underrated. Battleground was pretty good but it gets shitted on only because it had the most idiotic ending in PPV history. Night of Champions is even better but for many including myself, that stupid ending again put a damper on it. I'm not as big on their HIAC match because it felt like it never entered a higher gear and was again full of shenanigans. They had another match that went overlooked about a week before TLC on Smackdown. Haven't seen it since then but it's included in the Orton pack so when it's DLed, I'll rewatch.

Brock has had a couple more promos as far as I can tell. The week after his return, he was in the ring with John Laurinaitis and at one point prior to Extreme Rules, he cut a pretty good promo backstage.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Ziggler/Sheamus vs Cesaro/Miz
Henry/Show vs Rowan/Harper (again)
Reigns/Cena/Jericho vs Orton/Kane/Rollins

all scheduled for tonight

could be a great show wrestling-wise


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Damien Sandow's new gimmick is to be Alex Riley :lmao

Do Savage and Jake have any other big matches together besides the This Tuesday in Texas and SNME match? They're both good matches, but I kinda expected something more in the four star range

EDIT: "We want Ziggler" chants. Music to my ears. Especially when in the presence of the inferior Sheamus.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Sandow as Miz's stunt double is hilarious. :lmao

I'm enjoying Ziggler/Sheamus vs Miz/Cesaro so far.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Sheamus > Ziggler any day


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Ziggler is over as fuck with this crowd. And they're in like Iowa so it's not like it's "smark city" that people claim are the only ones to pop for Dolph. :mark:


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Crowd sounds fairly smarky to me but Ziggler is over everywhere, no point in denying that.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

True, true.

"I wish you died in the womb" is going to be on the signature that starts the show by the year 2024.

This storyline is amazing. :lmao:lmao:lmao

If Jerry Springer isn't the special ref of their blow off match, I'm going to be sad.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Oh god this feud is getting way too much attention air-time :lol :lol :lol

still better than an in-ring segment


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

This could be good :mark:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

This series of matches have been really good. Rowan/Harper have had a really underrated year. Also I like Big Show in this role a lot. And Henry fucking owns. And so does Rusev. :mark:

And Summer Rae back on TV. :mark:


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Liked that match (even though there were a few botched spots).


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I gotta say, with the new Madden coming out and the NFL season about to begin, the WWE is doing a pretty terrible job of keeping me interested. Missed all of their programming from last week and heard it was some of the worst of the year & now I turn on RAW and the last 45 minutes has pretty much been a waste of my time. This 'Growing Up Bella' shit is awful. Nikki can't act.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I gotta say, with the new Madden coming out and the NFL season about to begin, the WWE is doing a pretty terrible job of keeping me interested. Missed all of their programming from last week and heard it was some of the worst of the year & now I turn on RAW and the last 45 minutes has pretty much been a waste of my time. This 'Growing Up Bella' shit is awful. Nikki can't act.


Same. And I'm thirsty as hell for football. And I can watch just about any two teams play. I'll record Raw but there's no way it takes priority over SNF unless there's something really big happening.


----------



## Markus123 (Mar 25, 2014)

...wrong thread


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The product is just hopeless at the moment. Most talents are stale or uninteresting (they could become something if they get a chance) and the booking does nobody any favors. Just boring all around. I was hoping for something with the Highlight Reel segment advertised but in the end it was just a normal set-up for another pointless tag match in the main event that will 100% guaranteed end with LOLCENAWINS or Cena and Reigns sharing the spotlight.

Last week was pretty bad and I didn't expect them to top it off with something worse but it seems like they've come close. I turned it off after the first segment and looks like I didn't make a bad decision.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Yeah, every night's opening segment is literally the set up for a six man tag now.

BUT THAT HENRY/RUSEV STUFF THO


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

So is it too late for a Wrestlingforum Fantasy Football League? Because clearly all of us care more about football than we do about wrestling :lol


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

My only hope for the rest of this year is that they do Brock vs Orton. Nothing else could get me to tune in (regularly at least) but those bastards have definitely got me for my money in regards to the WWE Network because rest assured, I'm gonna subscribe around November time (so it lasts until WM) but only because of their recent addition of Nitros. Will be a blast to get all the TV stuff from WCW and PPVs too in glorious HD. Even better if they add more Raw and SD shows.

And maybe I need another trip to America to get it, but I still prefer the product at its worst over any handegg "football" of any sort. :lol


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

A commercial break when the Codebreaker is hit? This company :lmao


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

yup, they really don't know how to book stuff anymore


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Turned off Raw around the start of the 3rd hour to watch some BRIAN CAGE & MICHAEL ELGIN VS RICOCHET AND RICH SWANN. Was the main event decent? I'm not even disappointed I missed it. Legitimately just didn't feel like looking at a WWE ring anymore.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Legit have no idea why, if the story is Cena needing to prove himself worthy of facing Brock, he'd willingly tag in Reigns to pick up the pin. That logic... fpalm That is also what happens when you fucking rush a 4 week build and have the payoff in the 1st week.

I don't watch football, so I have no idea what else to watch on Mondays. :lmao Maybe I'll invest in a Netflix account and watch stuff on there so I can avoid watching Raw live... I dunno. Everything just fucking sucks now and the product is the worst it's been since I've come back to watch it.

I asked it in the Raw thread but it'll probably get more responses here. 2009/pre-August 2010 Raw (I came back in August) or 2014 Raw in its current state, what's worse?


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I think the tag to Reigns will set up a match with Reigns vs. Cena for the title shot on the go home RAW before NOC. Trips can say Reigns proved himself worthy, not Cena who didn't go for the kill when he could have.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Reigns vs Cena for the first time....on a random raw. I see that happening.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Didn't say it would make good business sense lol. That's the only thing I can think of. Reigns isn't really in a feud, esp with Ambrose coming back so he doesn't need to be building to a Rollins match and Cena in a kayfabe sense, hasn't proved shit.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Main event was good. And nothing was as bad as 2009-2010. Dumb question.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I actually appreciate '09 Raw. It kept the bad stuff off SD/ECW.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Agreed w/Brye.

and Henry & Show vs Harper & Rowan happened again on RAW tonight? :mark:

heard RAW was shite. Believe it, but will watch just to see this match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Definitely watch that match and the Bo Dallas segment after Swagger's match. I thought it was hilarious.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh, that Bo Dallas. He's a character.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Silly me, Mr Butterfingers!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bo :lol

Checked out Disc Two from the Best of Smackdown 09/10 set. Disc One rocked on the majority, the sequel? Garbage. A few good segments were on it, including Punk crashing Mysterio's daughter's birthday. Punk was the devil, it was great. That was the high point.

Six matches & none were worth seeing. Best being Undertaker squashing Drew McIntyre. That was even disappointing in the grand scheme of things, but it was "fine" for what it happened to be. Swagger cash in on Jericho technically was more of a segment than a match. It was good, but yeah, nine seconds. 

Then the other four matches; blurgh. Ten man tag stunk. Complete filler. Swagger vs Edge vs Jericho was poo. Triple Threat matches are so bad most of the time. Then it got worse w/the real DUDs like Edge vs Miz _(holy crap how lethargic could one match be?)_ & the kill me now quality _(use that word loosely)_ of Morrison vs Dolph vs R-Truth. Three dudes who had zero idea how to work a triple threat match apparently. It was near those flashbacks to Ground Zero between Faarooq, Crush, & Savio Vega. Ok, that was still worse, but god damn. Match on this set was full on putrid. To top it off, some very bizarre, nonsensical Edge & Christian segment ends the disc. Not even sure what the point of it was trying to convey. It doubles the crumminess when the later Edge vs Christian match doesn't even make the set b/c it happened on RAW & not Smckdown. Of course, I'm not even sure it was any good. Edge was really bad around this time.

You know Punk vs Mysterio happened in Feb & could have made this disc. But nah. Lets avoid putting a great match on here in the sea of junk. Boourns. Disc three did have a solid Punk vs Mysterio match on it. So thankfully there is that. I'll finish that later. I do know McIntyre vs Kaval & McIntyre vs Christian (one of em) made disc three, so at least it will have some matches worth seeing. Silver lining in tact.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

lol I think I remember that 10 man tag. I'd describe it as the one where there's a comical amount of finishers to take everyone out of the match but that's almost every 8+ man tag match ever. :side:

On the bright side, disc 3 also has a McIntyre/Matt Hardy match on it. Drew Mac was so damn good. 

And I don't remember loving Edge vs Christian from 2010. Which is disappointing because they probably could have done a pretty cool story around it. Also, Edge definitely regressed a bit form 2010 to the end of his career.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

A lot of clothelines were used instead of finishers in the ten man tag. I suppose that was the quickest way to take out an opponent w/o trying b/c the match reeked of that.

The long Drew vs Matt match too? Well hell yeah. Now I'm officially excited. Bout time they also go and put Drew matches that actually get to be matches on here. But we need that Layla Women's Championship win to eat up ten minutes. What an essential moment. 8*D


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Just watched CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy TLC at Summerslam 2009 and that is an excellent match. It's not just a complete spotfest, but it has some great psychology. Hardy getting pissed at Punk and whacking him in the head with the chair so Punk would stay down long enough for the big ladder spot. Punk later dragging himself into the ring and hopping up the ladder on one leg in such a realistic fashion. Too many wrestlers make the slow climb up the ladder look too contrived, but Punk was perfect here. Those little things matter.

But it was also violent enough and had a couple of tremendous spots that you like to see in ladder matches. The aforementioned big ladder spot is amazing, and the mid-match superplex onto the ladder is brutal. Not over done, just right.

I don't know if I'm overrating it, but I honestly think it might be worth ****1/2


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

With them announcing Reigns vs Orton the rematch for next week's Raw, I have a horrible feeling Reigns may move on to Rollins and beat him before Ambrose does.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I fail to see the harm in that. Reigns is a momentum train by proxy of his booking. b/c Dean Ambrose didn't get the win first it will matter in the grand scheme of things? Reigns defeating Rollins could be the start of Seth's luck running out. Following the loss, Ambrose returns to give him hell _(in a cell? ah, puns.)_ & it eventually climates w/Dean having the last laugh and Seth wondering where all of his luck has gone to.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Wouldn't it make more sense for Ambrose to beat him first though and conclude the feud? I thought it'd be better served saving a proper Reigns/Rollins program for post Mania 31.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

I too hope Ambrose is the first one to pin Rollins.

I hope both Jericho/Bray and Orton/Reigns ends next week.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Disc three did have a solid Punk vs Mysterio match on it. So thankfully there is that. I'll finish that later. I do know McIntyre vs Kaval & McIntyre vs Christian (one of em) made disc three, so at least it will have some matches worth seeing. .





Brye said:


> On the bright side, disc 3 also has a McIntyre/Matt Hardy match on it.


Sounds like the best disc of a DVD they've made in five years.

-------
I'm not done with the year yet, but Edge in 2010 is looking to be maybe my least favourite year for a wrestler in WWE ever. It's almost impressive that somebody with 10+ years wrestling experience could be that bad. Match with Jericho at Mania is on my ''would erase it from existence if I could'' list. Really, really, really, really terrible.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't see any difference while Ambrose isn't even on the program. Reigns zipped past Orton. Now he needs someone new; someone who matters. Rollins is that guy for a brief program while Ambrose is currently MIA. Who's to say what will be the plan come NOC, but all in all this bit isn't anything I look at has bad. Kind of the only thing left atm to fill a void. Filler among people who matter. As bizarre as it sounds. Then again, that's WWE right now. Not really sure of what they have in store for the product. Reign's rise seems to be the only foregone conclusion within the company.

Confused by this "first to pin" Rollins stuff. He's been pinned. By Heath Slater. Unless they mean Shield interaction, then again, don't even come close to seeing the point. Rollins pinned Ambrose at SummerSlam. Or only it is mentioned b/c Roman Reigns will do it, so it must be bad.



Jheri said:


> Sounds like the best disc of a DVD they've made in five years.


Potential is high.

As for your Edge comment, all I have to say on that is: FUCK LOGIC.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Disc 3 has Drew/Hardy, Drew/Kaval, Undertaker/Punk, then a Rey/Swagger and Rey/Del Rio match people probably like way more than me.

The SD 09-'10 Bluray set is one of my favs. Bluray gives us BOD Vs JeriShow and HBK/Mysterio, and I'm a big fan of most of the stuff from the first DVD disc too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh yeah, the first disc was quite strong. It was just disc two that stunk a whole bunch. Bad selection.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WWE never do get these "best of" sets right. They always include utter turd and try to make us think it's great because they WANT us to think it's great.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Ric Flair + Bob Backlund Interview (1982)*

x2537a4

_Interview regarding their upcoming Title Unification Match on 04/07/1982. Footage of the match has never surfaced._


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Is the Rey/Swagger 6/11/10? That match is fucking awesome and if I actually finish my 2010 list, and the match is just as good as I remembered it being, it could land top 5.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> Is the Rey/Swagger 6/11/10? That match is fucking awesome and if I actually finish my 2010 list, and the match is just as good as I remembered it being, it could land top 5.


Nah, it's the No DQ match from July 30th.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm rather annoyed I don't remember Mysterio vs McIntyre like I wished I did. b/c that totally happened, guys.

The No DQ match had that non-finish iirc. Or was that Falls Count Anywhere? Pretty sure Mysterio vs Swagger's best match is probably still from MITB. b/c that match is amazing. Basically we're all touching the subject of why I still loved Smackdown that year. All the stuff from these guys.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

One day I'll have to go through those Swagger/Mysterio matches because I never cared for em when they happened.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I don't see any difference while Ambrose isn't even on the program. Reigns zipped past Orton. Now he needs someone new; someone who matters. Rollins is that guy for a brief program while Ambrose is currently MIA. Who's to say what will be the plan come NOC, but all in all this bit isn't anything I look at has bad. Kind of the only thing left atm to fill a void. Filler among people who matter. As bizarre as it sounds. Then again, that's WWE right now. Not really sure of what they have in store for the product. Reign's rise seems to be the only foregone conclusion within the company.
> 
> Confused by this "first to pin" Rollins stuff. He's been pinned. By Heath Slater. Unless they mean Shield interaction, then again, don't even come close to seeing the point. Rollins pinned Ambrose at SummerSlam. Or only it is mentioned b/c Roman Reigns will do it, so it must be bad.


Not the fact that it is Reigns at all but if they go ahead with this program now, the timing would really suck imo.

You have a slimy opportunistic heel Rollins put Ambrose on the shelf, so wouldn't you want to build more heat on him by giving him a filler feud where he goes over and makes the crowd want to see him get his comeuppance? Then, Ambrose could return and we could finally have the return match with Dean going over. If Reigns already kicks his ass, that cools off his heat somewhat and Ambrose's moment isn't as big as it should be.

As for Reigns, his entire direction since the Shield split has seemed like one big filler arc until he gets to Hunter. Having beaten Orton, HHH is who he should be targeting. Even though he still gets pops I do feel he has cooled off significantly and a short feud with Rollins at this time won't help. He should beat Hunter and set his eyes on the title while The Authority tries to screw him, only for him to win the Rumble and head on to Mania.

Or they could be just doing Orton/Reigns at NOC again and my entire post was for nothing. But just what I'm slightly apprehensive about.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rey/Swagger 7/30/10 was the one that went out to the ocean or some shit, wasn't it? Interested in watching that again. I was up to their MITB match when I was watching the PPV a few months back but never got around to it.

Rey/McIntyre 8/26/10 didn't disappoint me. 


OH MY GOD REY IN 2010


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Still got 4 more 06 PPV's to watch. I swear this year doesn't end! 

Might start on Backlash, then watch NM, SVS and Armageddon all in order.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I like how they're stacking the RAW card for next week since Monday Night Football will be back. Only problem is, I doubt Orton/Reigns will be as good as the Summerslam match and Bray/Jericho in the Cage has just about no one interested because their matches have been so average. RAW sucked ass from the last two hours I saw last night. Main event was fine, but dragged at times and had that ridiculous finish.

The Rey/Swagger 7/30/10 was one of my favorites from that subpar SD 2009/10 set because it was a ton of fun and had a memorable "finish". That plus the Taker/Punk match were the best outings. McIntyre/Hardy was good but I remembered not liking something about how much punishment Hardy took and how easily he seemed to come back and win. Idk, haven't seen it in a while. Actually liked the Jericho/Swagger/Edge 3-way, but I'm not surprised that others (or Cody) wouldn't. Some 3-ways don't seem to bother me as much as others. Mania XXIV one I've always found to be overrated.



Twisted14 said:


> Just watched CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy TLC at Summerslam 2009 and that is an excellent match. It's not just a complete spotfest, but it has some great psychology. Hardy getting pissed at Punk and whacking him in the head with the chair so Punk would stay down long enough for the big ladder spot. Punk later dragging himself into the ring and hopping up the ladder on one leg in such a realistic fashion. Too many wrestlers make the slow climb up the ladder look too contrived, but Punk was perfect here. Those little things matter.
> 
> But it was also violent enough and had a couple of tremendous spots that you like to see in ladder matches. The aforementioned big ladder spot is amazing, and the mid-match superplex onto the ladder is brutal. Not over done, just right.
> 
> I don't know if I'm overrating it, but I honestly think it might be worth ****1/2


I feel the same about this match. When I watched it a couple weeks ago I was blown away by how much it seemed to set itself apart from all the other Ladder matches in the last 5 years or so by showing psychology, keeping a story, and not overdoing it with spots. It ended at the right time too. **** 1/4 for me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What is the date of that Punk/Taker match, 23rd October, 2009?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Taker/Punk match on the SD set is the 10/09/2010 one, aka the supermegaawesome one where Undertaker is selling the effects of Kane's beatdown months before :mark:.

Though that 09 one is awesome too. Whole series between them in 09 tends to get overlooked because Undertaker won the belt.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> The Taker/Punk match on the SD set is the 10/09/2010 one, aka the supermegaawesome one where Undertaker is selling the effects of Kane's beatdown months before :mark:.
> 
> Though that 09 one is awesome too. Whole series between them in 09 tends to get overlooked because Undertaker won the belt.


Thanks Cal, ill watch both soon as i havn't really gone through that set entirely yet.  Also noticed a Taker/Rey match from Xmas day 2009 on there too.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

MITB match from WM 24 was really good imo. Not as awesome as the first one (watched that a few days ago), but still pretty great with some amazing spots. Gave it a ***3/4. 

Jericho's inring stuff should pick up now. His first post-WM match against CM Punk was already better (not saying it was great) than his 2008 TV stuff pre-WM (as long as I'm not forgetting something), but his no-selling of his leg towards the end annoyed me a great deal.

A 15 min match against Umaga, a KOTR match against CM Punk and the his heel turn kicks in. Stoked.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

What is everyone's stars for Brock/Eddie NWO? Watched it last night and damn was it excellent.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> What is everyone's stars for Brock/Eddie NWO? Watched it last night and damn was it excellent.


Two of my all time favorites in a dream match. On last watch, ****1/2, i may go higher on a more recent watch though. I fucking adore it, even with the 'Goldberg' ending.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

The Fab Four said:


> Two of my all time favorites in a dream match. On last watch, ****1/2, i may go higher on a more recent watch though. I fucking adore it, even with the 'Goldberg' ending.


Yeah pretty much sums it up, top 3 of the year I'm thinking.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I found Raw to be a chore myself. Main Event wasn't bad but it went on way too long. Wyatts/Black Show was (probably) good (I say probably because I actually didn't really care about it tbh). Cesaro & Miz/Ziggler & Sheamus was enjoyable. Everything else was fucking rubbish. This product atm is hopeless. SAVE US BROCK/BRYAN/AMBROSE/BARRETT/WHOEVER ELSE OF GOOD THAT ISN'T ON THE SHOW.



SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> What is everyone's stars for Brock/Eddie NWO? Watched it last night and damn was it excellent.


****3/4. Damn near perfect. Goldberg stuff sets it apart from a ***** rating from me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Also ****3/4 for Lesnar/Eddie. NWO 04 is the next PPV ramble to be posted on my blog, this Sunday btw  . But of course you all know that already, because you all noticed that I updated my blogs today with an update video telling you about all the upcoming posts in the next week and then a new blog post featuring games I'd love to see remade/remastered in HD .

I skipped through most of Raw as usual. Wanna go back and watch Henry/Show Vs Wyatt's because :mark: at anything with those guys. Sat through the diva stuff once I saw AJ appear. Fuck listening to the Bellas. Saw a Heyman promo but I'd skipped too far ahead at that point and decided to watch it later when I watch that tag. Nothing else made me wanna stop and watch. Fack the dub dub eeee.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I still like Henry, even though i MUCH prefer him as a heel. But i still can't fucking stand anything The Big Show is involved in.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I can stand Show, I do like Henry, I hope Henry/Rusev is as awesome as it sounds, and the match w/the Wyatts was probably good, but I didn't bring myself to care about it so God knows if it actually was for me .

Now I've read over the net that during Raw a fan was almost arrested because of the signs he carried ("Raw is RAGElife" and "I could be watching Nitro for $9.99"), and that another fan saw his/her sign ("Cena it's time for a heel turn") confiscated too. THIS. FUCKING. COMPANY. :Jordan

"BAH! Look at those signs, DAMMIT!! Go tak'im out!!!" :vince3


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I could understand if it was a 'Vince is a cock' sign or something, but that one is promoting the Network FFS.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Jericho slowly turning heel is pretty awesome, tbh.

Got wrecked by both HBK and Batista in a week and I'm really interested in how this turns out.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

They confiscated the Nitro/Network sign because it kills them to know that their rival company's product from two decades ago draws more than their shitty product atm. And for that, I say why not just improve the damn product?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Still baffles me how WWE do documentaries talking about how successful they were years ago and GO INTO DETAIL ON WHY... yet they don't seem to do any of those things today :lmao. These Monday Night Wars documentaries on the Network right now are spending an hour a week talking about how they turned shit around. Why the fuck they continue to not change is beyond me.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

That would take admitting that something is seriously wrong with the product and they won't do that.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Midcard has some good stuff going on. Henry/Rusev, DOLPH/MIZ, Rollins doing his thing, Bo/Swagger, Dustbros heel turn, and Slater Gator keep me interested. But this main event scene :lol. I still like Reigns, but he isn't actually doing anything. And as much as I respect Lesnar's talents, I just don't like the idea of a part-time champion, especially when we haven't had a solid title reign since Punk. As a result, Lesnar as champion is hurting more than it's helping.

I have Eddie/Lesnar at ****1/2, but the last time I watched it I did get kinda bored, which made me question that rating. Lesnar's offense went on for too long and it didn't look very painful. Loved the Goldberg interference and the ensuing events. I would most certainly put Eddie's match with JBL above the Lesnar match, as well as quite a few things from RAW.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> Still baffles me how WWE do documentaries talking about how successful they were years ago and GO INTO DETAIL ON WHY... yet they don't seem to do any of those things today :lmao. These Monday Night Wars documentaries on the Network right now are spending an hour a week talking about how they turned shit around. Why the fuck they continue to not change is beyond me.



Dude that is EXACTLY what I spent the entire time thinking watching those Monday Night Wars documentaries. Like, they are describing their product on Raw from 1993-1997 and saw how outdated and corny it was, and how them being so kid friendly was limiting them, and it sounds like they are actually describing the current product. Then they go on to say how how they made all these great changes and how it saved their company and gave them the best ratings ever....and I'm like THE FUCK WHY WOULDNT YOU JUST KEEP DOING THAT YOU NOBS?! 

I just listened to Batista's interview on the Jericho podcast, I have to say it was pretty awesome. I didn't realize Batista left because of the PG rating. He got fined $100,000 for blading in a cage match with Jericho and decided right then and there that the PG rating and how awful the creative process had become was killing the business he loved and that he couldn't stand to be a part of it. He said getting fined for doing what he knew was right (blading in a cage match as the baby face losing the title) just crushed him. Got a new found respect for Big Dave, even if he isn't the greatest wrestler ever at least he admits when WWE does something wrong and shares a similar view to me on wrestling. Batista also said the problem with most if the new guys is that they don't ever say "No" to Vince or the writing staff, and that the reason we so much crap on Raw and Smackdown is because no one has the balls to tell Vince no when he is wrong.

I have Eddie/Lesnar NWO at ****3/4 as well. The only thing keeping it from getting the full 5-stars is the prolonged rest hold about 20 minutes in, other than that the match is sheer perfection, my all time favorite wrestler winning the title from one of my top 2 all time favorite heels. Doesn't get too much better than that.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> they don't ever say "No" to Vince or the writing staff, and that the reason we so much crap on Raw and Smackdown is because no one has the balls to tell Vince no when he is wrong.


I think its just us fans (well, most probably) who would actually tell Vince "Hang on mate, this is fucking shit". I know i would, but that is just me lol. 

In fact, even if i were a wrestler i would tell him if something wasn't working, or if i wasn't happy with the direction, im just that sort of person i guess that is sometimes too honest and tells it like it is.

Mind you, i was once told i have a problem with authority.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

With WWE having the monopoly on wrestling basically, most guys don't wanna say anything in fear of getting released, because where the fuck they gonna go? TNA? :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> With WWE having the monopoly on wrestling basically, most guys don't wanna say anything in fear of getting released, because where the fuck they gonna go? TNA? :lmao


It's a good point lol, its not like a normal profession where you can just gp to another job or company. There is only TNA, which is shit and nearly dead, and New Japan, which i guess is quite selective so.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Dolph Ziggler spoke up, and look what that got him. Can't blame the talent.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Dolph Ziggler spoke up, and look what that got him. Can't blame the talent.



That's totally different. Dolph was speaking out in the media, that has nothing to do with getting your "creative" for the night, not liking something for your character, then going to talk to the writer or Vince about what you think should change and why. Don't get me wrong, I've written an essay here on why I think punishing talent on screen for things that happen offscreen is the dumbest thing ever, but in this case I have to side with Batista and Austin. You aren't going to get punished if you respectfully disagree with some of the creative and offer an alternative course of action. Either someone will like it and it'll get changed or they won't and it'll get shot down but either way you've gotta make yourself heard. There are too many old timers saying that all the new guys never speak up for it to just be make believe. Nearly every interview you hear from someone who was around before the PG rating started mentions that no one really takes their character into their own hands anymore. At the end of the day, no one is gonna know your character better than you.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What is that Masakatsu Funaki match from the 80's that i've seen people praise? Bit random i know. 

EDIT: Found it Masakatsu Funaki vs. Tatsuo Nakano - UWF, 1989-07-24


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

You don't even have to aggressively disagree with the script. All they should do is voice their concern and add their ideas. It's weird because from some people you hear that Vince is approachable and likes a guy who is willing to push him to the edge on ideas but then there's this rumor that anyone who opens their mouth gets buried unless they're higher up on the ladder. And yeah, don't be a stupid geek like Ziggler and whine on interviews or say stupid things on twitter. He deserved every bit of the burial he received for being a dumbass.

I enjoyed the Batista interviews with Jericho a lot. I find it funny that Jericho was mentioning the fine from the cage match as some kind of secret even though it wasn't two months ago he revealed it on an interview. Was pretty dumb of Vince to fine Batista $100,000 for something so small. I fully understand why Batista was unhappy after that and decided to eventually leave. For a while in 2010, they were even fining people for saying "ass". Luckily, The Rock said that word about ten times in his return promo and they decided to ease up on the profanity filter as we've heard so many use "ass" and "bitch" since then.

Triple H will be Jericho's guest this week. Hope we get an out of character interview where he goes through his career. Would hate for it to be a boring kayfabe interview but HHH is not exactly a character the way Wyatt is, so I hope we get Paul rather than Hunter.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Fab Four said:


> What is that Masakatsu Funaki match from the 80's that i've seen people praise? Bit random i know.
> 
> EDIT: Found it Masakatsu Funaki vs. Tatsuo Nakano - UWF, 1989-07-24


For a second I thought you were going to take a dip into trying to get All Japan a plug in here during his time before leaving for Muta's promotion. :side:


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That's totally different. Dolph was speaking out in the media, that has nothing to do with getting your "creative" for the night, not liking something for your character, then going to talk to the writer or Vince about what you think should change and why. Don't get me wrong, I've written an essay here on why I think punishing talent on screen for things that happen offscreen is the dumbest thing ever, but in this case I have to side with Batista and Austin. You aren't going to get punished if you respectfully disagree with some of the creative and offer an alternative course of action. Either someone will like it and it'll get changed or they won't and it'll get shot down but either way you've gotta make yourself heard. There are too many old timers saying that all the new guys never speak up for it to just be make believe. Nearly every interview you hear from someone who was around before the PG rating started mentions that no one really takes their character into their own hands anymore. At the end of the day, no one is gonna know your character better than you.





The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That's totally different. Dolph was speaking out in the media, that has nothing to do with getting your "creative" for the night, not liking something for your character, then going to talk to the writer or Vince about what you think should change and why. Don't get me wrong, I've written an essay here on why I think punishing talent on screen for things that happen offscreen is the dumbest thing ever, but in this case I have to side with Batista and Austin. You aren't going to get punished if you respectfully disagree with some of the creative and offer an alternative course of action. Either someone will like it and it'll get changed or they won't and it'll get shot down but either way you've gotta make yourself heard. There are too many old timers saying that all the new guys never speak up for it to just be make believe. Nearly every interview you hear from someone who was around before the PG rating started mentions that no one really takes their character into their own hands anymore. At the end of the day, no one is gonna know your character better than you.


By the same token though, if Stephanie (Head of creative) has a direction and a talent has a direction, unless the crowed ends up disagreeing we know who is winning that fight considering the little leverage wrestlers hold nowadays moreso when considering that with a decay in true technical wrestling/execution, many of the mid to low tier talent would find it hard to work in Japan. Listening to the boss and being part of a global juggernaut traveling the world and making great money or working small, oftentimes shady promotions that are a blip on the map but you have more individual freedom. Sure, guys like Punk who were already set are an exception but I would think the majority would go with option 1. 

I think that there is alot of talent on this roster and enough to cultivate a great product, but I think a huge roadblock is something I gotta give Russo credit for and that there are 30 FUCKING PEOPLE IN CREATIVE. Think about how widely interpreted this business is (hell look at this forum), and then consider that 30 different visions are combining and it is no wonder that the product when a few key injuries are what they are that the product is in the pit. The AE wasn't my preferred style by any means since I'm a purist, but I can't deny that when it came to the main event scene and developing the big ticket characters, the AE was strong. This was with Ferrara and Russo and Vince as overseer. 3 people. 30 people in 2014. 

Lack of competition is a real factor. WWE is globally cemented in damn near every market China aside as a force in entertainment with no upstart company even sniffing them. Certainly this was a problem when Vince was laying it on the line to globalize wrestling completing the territorial deathmarch (to the point that Vince actually didn't take NWA in overall popularity until a while), then when Vince completed his dream the product sat back a bit when NWA went down and WCW was in ruins. Product sank to horrid lows in the early 90s to 96 until WCW rose up and then WWE had no choice but to kick it into gear. Even in the Ruthless Agression Era, WWE had the motivations of truely globalizing their brand to international markets. In 2014, that is accomplished, there is no competition especially with how staunch MMA fans are of stigmatizing wrestling, so WWE can sit easy. Even the Network I argue isn't a strong product motivator until the company is financially in dire straights, because hell the Network is more a pioneering of distribution more than a solidifying of the WWE product if that makes sense.


----------



## TheChoppingMachine (Mar 25, 2014)

The Fab Four said:


> What is that Masakatsu Funaki match from the 80's that i've seen people praise? Bit random i know.
> 
> EDIT: Found it Masakatsu Funaki vs. Tatsuo Nakano - UWF, 1989-07-24


Love that match. Dat hate :mark: Probably the best sub 10 min match ever. This or Hansen/Funk.

And I agree with everyone else, Raw was shit.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

There are 30 people on 'Creative'? :lmao And this is the best they/Vince can do, i would say too many cooks and all that, but too many idiots by the sounds of it.

Is Stephanie still involved in all that?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I don't see any difference while Ambrose isn't even on the program. Reigns zipped past Orton. Now he needs someone new; someone who matters. Rollins is that guy for a brief program while Ambrose is currently MIA. Who's to say what will be the plan come NOC, but all in all this bit isn't anything I look at has bad. Kind of the only thing left atm to fill a void. Filler among people who matter. As bizarre as it sounds. Then again, that's WWE right now. Not really sure of what they have in store for the product. Reign's rise seems to be the only foregone conclusion within the company.
> 
> Confused by this "first to pin" Rollins stuff. He's been pinned. By Heath Slater. Unless they mean Shield interaction, then again, don't even come close to seeing the point. Rollins pinned Ambrose at SummerSlam. Or only it is mentioned b/c Roman Reigns will do it, so it must be bad.


Reigns beating Rollins before Ambrose gets his comeuppance would be awful. I don't get how you can't see that. People won't care nearly as much about Ambrose returning to get revenge on Rollins if Reigns goes and beats him at Night of Champions. I know I won't.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Found this 'Benoit Match List' if anyone wants it:

http://z3.invisionfree.com/New_Millennium_Blues/ar/t494.htm


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wait, somebody actually thinks that Reigns beating Rollins before Ambrose returns and gives him his much deserved comeuppance is fine? Only if Reigns wins by DQ or countout, because Rollins being downed by Reigns before Ambrose's return only spoils part of the feel-good moment when Ambrose finally beats him. Only works w/a DQ win for me, and that's a BIG only and with a considerable "eh" in between.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

If they want a filler feud for Reigns before he goes after Hunter, Cesaro is by far the best option. Rollins shouldn't even be on the radar, he can't lose until Ambrose gets his big win. That would totally spoil it, having Reigns down on him on his first try after Ambrose failed (albeit with plenty of Shens) both times. No, I think they should save Rollins/Reings for later on down the line. Put Reigns with Cesaro, have Cesaro win the first match by count out after a STRONG Reigns showing, then have Reigns go over clean on Raw. Once that's done he's free to take on Hunter at HiaC or SVS, whenever they do it.

Anyone else in love with the new Rowan/Harper theme as much as I am? By far my favorite theme these days, so hard hitting and suits them perfectly. What a great visual, that HARD guitar riff hits and then Harper steps out with those distant, crazy eyes and Rowan is in tow with the sheep mask. Love it love it love it.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> If they want a filler feud for Reigns before he goes after Hunter, Cesaro is by far the best option. Rollins shouldn't even be on the radar, he can't lose until Ambrose gets his big win. That would totally spoil it, having Reigns down on him on his first try after Ambrose failed (albeit with plenty of Shens) both times. No, I think they should save Rollins/Reings for later on down the line. Put Reigns with Cesaro, have Cesaro win the first match by count out after a STRONG Reigns showing, then have Reigns go over clean on Raw. Once that's done he's free to take on Hunter at HiaC or SVS, whenever they do it.
> 
> Anyone else in love with the new Rowan/Harper theme as much as I am? By far my favorite theme these days, so hard hitting and suits them perfectly. What a great visual, that HARD guitar riff hits and then Harper steps out with those distant, crazy eyes and Rowan is in tow with the sheep mask. Love it love it love it.


Yes because when that awful toddler sounding singer screams "HES GOT THE WHOLE WORLD IN HIS HANDS" and that resounds through the arena and my speakers, I can't get enough of that. In seriousness, if they took the intro out and played the riff after the classic Wyatt intro, it would be a good theme. I think themes most important mission should be to give or reinforce the aurora/vibe of a wrestler, and that rugged riff and non technical guitar playing kind of matches the style of Harper/Rowan as a tag team in the ring (Harper wrestles different solo). Rugged, non textbook, slow yet powerful and hard hitting. Theme somewhat reminds me of a slowed down Diesel theme with a different vibe given more suitable to the Wyatts.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WrestlingOracle said:


> Yes because when that awful toddler sounding singer screams "HES GOT THE WHOLE WORLD IN HIS HANDS" and that resounds through the arena and my speakers, I can't get enough of that. In seriousness, if they took the intro out and played the riff after the classic Wyatt intro, it would be a good theme. I think themes most important mission should be to give or reinforce the aurora/vibe of a wrestler, and that rugged riff and non technical guitar playing kind of matches the style of Harper/Rowan as a tag team in the ring (Harper wrestles different solo). Rugged, non textbook, slow yet powerful and hard hitting. Theme somewhat reminds me of a slowed down Diesel theme with a different vibe given more suitable to the Wyatts.



Oh I agree 1000%, they need to ditch the "Whole World" intro part, I was more just talking about the actual theme itself. They should just replace the intro part with Harper saying "Yeah Yeah Yeah" in that creepy voice, then have that guitar riff hit. That would be so much better. Im so over the whole world in his hands thing, WWE ran that thing into the ground like everything else that was once cool.

Or, if they insist on having "Whole World" as part of their theme, just cut it wayyy shorter, like have the girl sing "He's got the whole world" and have it cut right there into the guitar part.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Fab Four said:


> What is that Masakatsu Funaki match from the 80's that i've seen people praise? Bit random i know.
> 
> EDIT: Found it Masakatsu Funaki vs. Tatsuo Nakano - UWF, 1989-07-24


That match is awesome as fuck and should definitely be watched, but you're probably thinking of Funaki/Yoji Anjoh 6/14/89.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Watched Jericho vs HBK on both Judgment Day and GAB (the latter on accident, thought it was the JD one). Loved both a great deal, but the JD match is definitely better, imo. **** for the JD match, ***1/2 for the GAB one.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> Triple H will be Jericho's guest this week. Hope we get an out of character interview where he goes through his career. Would hate for it to be a boring kayfabe interview but HHH is not exactly a character the way Wyatt is, so I hope we get Paul rather than Hunter.


I doubt it will be kayfabe. Trips is usually very open and approachable in interviews from what I've seen/heard. He's been asked about everything from Chyna to Katie Vick to drawing comparisons between Flair/Hogan and The Wrestler movie. I can't see this one being any different. 



The Fab Four said:


> There are 30 people on 'Creative'? :lmao And this is the best they/Vince can do, i would say too many cooks and all that, but too many idiots by the sounds of it.
> 
> Is Stephanie still involved in all that?


From what I've gathered Stephanie is now Chief Brand Officer and Creative falls under Hunter's umbrella now. But the role is more coordinator/supervisory in nature or at least that's what they both say. The writing staff is so big now because of the sheer volume of content across TV and also their digital and social channels. Still no excuse for the crappy shows but it's not like they have 30 people writing Raw... or maybe they do and that's why it's a mess. Who knows.

It kind of just hit me earlier today that I rarely watch wrestling matches any more. I watched the 6 man on Raw and before that a few matches from Summerslam and before that the last thing I can remember seeing is Cena/Wyatt from Payback. I can't even remember what PPV's happened in between :lol.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I don't think Jericho is gonna ask Trips tough questions, its more easy going but I would like to learn how much power Trips really has, what he's thought of some previous angles. It's not like Jericho is gonna ask "So Paul, is it true CM Punk left the company because he didn't want to work with you?" Although that would be hilarious.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Need your help guys. One of you guys (Rah or Chismo I'm guessing) posted a video on a previous version of this thread where La Parka goes insane during a tag match and does La Parka things. The Youtube video was about two minutes long and it was posted in the middle of a Monday Night RAW. Can't find it anywhere, but I must have it.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Obviously, people expecting an in depth discussion of why Punk left and why HHH 'buried' Booker, Kane, RVD, Steiner, Goldberg and Jericho himself are going to be disappointed. But that doesn't mean there isn't anything for them to talk about. Should be great just for the novelty of Jericho interviewing Triple H alone mixed with their differing views on certain things. 

And yeah, it's only right Ambrose get the first pop at Rollins and not Reigns. It wouldn't be disastrous but it certainly wouldn't be great either. Ambrose/Rollins is where the heat is at. Keep Reigns away, preferably from HHH too until he's a bit further on. I'm just thankful it doesn't seem to be on the table any more. My gut feeling might turn out to be right after all. I like Reigns but I definitely think they need to slow down and let him shake the wetness off before pushing him to the moon.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

To hell with Philip. I hope they don't mention him at all. I just wanna hear an in-depth out of character interview that goes through Triple H's career and here's hoping they bring up the tag match that is Jericho's favorite ever and also the one where HHH tore his quad.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

IMO, at most, there only needs to be two people writing Raw and WITHOUT Vince making all the final calls. It's time to just let Triple H handle all that. I guarantee we'd see a better product. 

I think only two people need to write Raw, two for Smackdown and then for Main Event, just list off the matches and let the agents/competitors work it out, since that's more of the wrestling show.

I'm someone who believes it's time for Vince to hand everything over to Triple H in terms of creative, and that includes the final say on things.



Lazyking said:


> I don't think Jericho is gonna ask Trips tough questions, its more easy going but I would like to learn how much power Trips really has, what he's thought of some previous angles. It's not like Jericho is gonna ask "So Paul, is it true CM Punk left the company because he didn't want to work with you?" Although that would be hilarious.


It'd be cool if Triple H touched on this, but I doubt it'll happen. Punk obviously won't speak up, Vince rarely does interviews like this, Triple H would probably be the guy who'd be willing to speak somewhat of it, but I doubt it'll happen. Nonetheless, the interview should be good so I'm looking forward to it.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Just realized that HHH/Jericho is now overshadowing another potential classic tomorrow when JR interviews Stan Hansen. (hope JR doesnt hijack this whole convo like he does so many on his podcast) Guy has had a fascinating journey from as a young man being a recurring challenger of Brunno near Sammartino's peak to being one of the original gaijin stars wrestling famed brawls with the Funks w/Brody , remaining a star in the southern NWA region and in AWA breaking in Vader later in his career really raising his workmanship and having bust ass matches pivotal to the character/rise of a young Kobashi all the while having a style influencing a generation of big brawling wrestlers including attempted in ring emulation by JBL. 

One of the most wacky promo cutters, in my opinion a top 5 in ring 300 plus pounder off top of my head and certainly a man who's seen it all and Im sure rolling w/ Brody, Harley, being managed by Blassie, the infamous Vader battles, battling the Funks, growing up in the biz among a cast of true legends, a star in AJPW, he has to have stories for days. I'd love to hear his thoughts on the biz today as well. Guy in look, ring style and promo delivery is the antithesis of modern day wrestling. REALLY looking up to that interview. Ive never seen a Hansen shoot and didnt read his book so anything he says is fresh to me and has been one of my favorites for some time.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I love Jericho's podcast so I'm pumped that Trips is gonna be on his. I like Austin's/Cabana/JR's shows but Jericho's always draws me in. What a world we live in though, 4 great podcasts.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

And yet none of you appreciate the Attitude Era podcast. Curse you folks.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> And yet none of you appreciate the Attitude Era podcast. Curse you folks.


I've never listened to it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Imagine a podcast where three clones of Cal ramble about Attitude Era PPVs. Imagine it! It will be your new addiction.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

This strongly interests me. I'll look into it. (Y)


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So they announced another Miz/Dolph IC Title match for Night of Champions. Someone tell me why I'm supposed to be excited for this PPV? It features nothing fresh at all thus far. I also don't like the Dust Brothers heel turn after watching RAW last night. I don't wanna root against those two! I'd rather boo the Usos. 

Bo Dallas vs. Jack Swagger and Rusev vs. Mark Henry isn't gonna be enough to bring this card out of the snooze zone for me. Neither will another edition of Dust Bros/Usos, especially when it SHOULD BE face Dust Bros vs. Rowan & Harper.

At least Sheamus vs. Cesaro should be a good match. I loved their Payback encounter.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Wow, this is the second time Sheamus is facing Cesaro for the US Title on PPV again... in the same reign with the matches 3 months apart. Only thing is this time, Cesaro doesn't have anywhere near the amount of momentum he had before so while I expect a really good/great match, the finish won't protect Cesaro like the last time.

NOC really isn't looking worth watching, Lesnar/Cena aside. This is the PPV that's supposed to get people to renew their subscriptions for the network? :lmao


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Despite being curious about Lesnar/Cena, I'm not even all that intrigued. Rusev/Henry and Swagger/Bo interest me.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Need your help guys. One of you guys (Rah or Chismo I'm guessing) posted a video on a previous version of this thread where La Parka goes insane during a tag match and does La Parka things. The Youtube video was about two minutes long and it was posted in the middle of a Monday Night RAW. Can't find it anywhere, but I must have it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcBMYRgmEuE

??


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcBMYRgmEuE
> 
> ??


Yes! This is it. Thank you kind sir.:bow


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rusev vs Henry.

/PPV.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

If Lana gets involved I want TONY ATLAS to even the odds for Henry.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I find it funny that a lot of people around these parts seem to be dreading Henry vs. Rusev, because I think am almost certain it'll rule.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

After watching Rusev the last couple of months I'm willing to give him a shot at filling the Umaga sized hole in my heart.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm pulling for the Finlay interference to cost America the match and it can jumpstart another Henry vs Finlay series.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

PGSucks said:


> I find it funny that a lot of people around these parts seem to be dreading Henry vs. Rusev, because I think am almost certain it'll rule.


I'm certainly looking forward to it. Rusev seems really good and Henry ain't bad.

In other news, I'm watching Sting vs Hogan for the very first time.

lol Sting breathing very heavy after 2.5 minutes.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I'm pulling for the Finlay interference to cost America the match and it can jumpstart another Henry vs Finlay series.


Fuck, those were good matches. I loved that ECW roster. So much talent and they booked it fairly well.

Also, the Giant running over Hogan's bike in the monster truck. :lmao:lmao:lmao Wish I watched this as a kid. The three Nitros I've watched so far have been fun. Plus Alex Wright. :mark:


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

That Hogan/Sting finish is fucking cringeworthy. wtf was that?

Also, lol at these guys. Sting's moves the entire match: kick, back hand, 3 drop kicks, 2 splashes, deathlock, and one move i forgot. Hogan wasn't any better. 

Match was a disaster. I can't imagine how Bret felt having to say "it was a fast count" when clearly it wasn't and the match should've been over.

One star.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Mike Knox seemed like the guy who never got the fair deal while on ECW. He squashed a lot of people. But never really quite got enough of a workload on TV while on the roster. From what I recall, anyway. 

Finlay vs Henry series was the bees knees. Recall the triple threat that threw Evan Bourne into the mix rocked too.

HA. Hogan vs Giant feud. Man that was wacky. Dungeon of Doom; filled w/memories. That of which includes the Tower of Doom. A bad, bad memory for me.

DAS WUNDERKIND :mark:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Mike Knox seemed like the guy who never got the fair deal while on ECW. He squashed a lot of people. But never really quite got enough of a workload on TV while on the roster. From what I recall, anyway.
> 
> Finlay vs Henry series was the bees knees. Recall the triple threat that threw Evan Bourne into the mix rocked too.
> 
> ...


Knox ended up having a nice run about 3 years later though. I remember really liking a match he had with Finlay on Superstars in 2010. Funny enough the first time I saw Michael Elgin in the indies (probably like a year ago or so) I thought it was Mike Knox repackaged. :lmao They don't even look that similar but it was the first thing I thought.

Evan Bourne. :mark: If I recall there's a great Henry/Bourne match from 2009 as well. And can't forget Bourne/Morrison. I LOVE that match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Knox would get some good stuff once moved to Smackdown in 09. Matches vs Finlay, Mysterio, & Kane were all quality. Would have preferred more for his catalog, but at least I got some opposed to none. Ugh, Michael Elgin. Terrible. Then ended up being the biggest compliment for Elgin & the biggest insult for Knox, ha.

All three of the Henry vs Bourne matches in 09 are quality, if you ask me. The way Bourne sold Morrison's flying chuck kick on the apron. _(or maybe that was only in the 08 match?)_ Regardless, looks stellar.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Brye said:


> If Lana gets involved I want TONY ATLAS to even the odds for Henry.


At some point in time one of Rusev's opponents needs to have a valet because the crowd would pop HUGE for a bitch slap to Lana.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Knox would get some good stuff once moved to Smackdown in 09. Matches vs Finlay, Mysterio, & Kane were all quality. Would have preferred more for his catalog, but at least I got some opposed to none. Ugh, Michael Elgin. Terrible. Then ended up being the biggest compliment for Elgin & the biggest insult for Knox, ha.
> 
> All three of the Henry vs Bourne matches in 09 are quality, if you ask me. The way Bourne sold Morrison's flying chuck kick on the apron. _(or maybe that was only in the 08 match?)_ Regardless, looks stellar.


Shit, I remember really liking Knox/Mysterio. Gonna have to look that up. :lmao I like Elgin when he wrestles with Brian Cage (IS A FUCKING MACHINE~!) but his singles stuff has bored me. Didn't hate him vs Sami though.



Saint Dick said:


> At some point in time one of Rusev's opponents needs to have a valet because the crowd would pop HUGE for a bitch slap to Lana.


Definitely. (Y)

Would like to see a few more managers/valets anyway.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

StuckInHell4-Life said:


> That Hogan/Sting finish is fucking cringeworthy. wtf was that?
> 
> Also, lol at these guys. Sting's moves the entire match: kick, back hand, 3 drop kicks, 2 splashes, deathlock,
> One star.


That's how it should have been. Punch, kick, splash, Deathlock..........1,2,3. Sting wins the belt, clean, for WCW, after 18 MONTHS of build. Simples.

But no, Hogan and co didn't want that of course. I would agree about Sting, he was out of shape in terms of ring rust for sure, but he was having his own problems at home and with drugs at the time , so.



Yeah1993 said:


> That match is awesome as fuck and should definitely be watched, but you're probably thinking of Funaki/Yoji Anjoh 6/14/89.


Thanks .Ill take a note of that one too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Shit, I remember really liking Knox/Mysterio. Gonna have to look that up. :lmao I like Elgin when he wrestles with Brian Cage (IS A FUCKING MACHINE~!) but his singles stuff has bored me. Didn't hate him vs Sami though.


Here's one of their matches. Their last one, actually.






Tags are always a better safeguard for a wrestler who is poor in singles. I like Brian Cage, so I can't say I mind the team a whole bunch. Despite rather not seeing Elgin any chance I can.

------------

Surprised last week's Smackdown was slept on. Thought it was quite strong. Two great matches on it and none of the original content felt like filler. All at least kept up w/current angles. Submission match & the six man tag were top quality. Loved em both. Rusev & Swagger kept the quality high five times over. Impressive. So glad that program worked out to the extent I was hoping it would. Watch a Smackdown you hear nothing from & get two additions for my MOTYC list. Talk about a sleeper.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Thanks man. (Y) Knox was a beast once he grew that beard.

I liked Smackdown this week. Thought it flowed well and Swagger/Rusev delivered yet again. Main event was pretty solid too. Smackdown, especially around this time of year always has some sleepers. That Real Americans/Sandow vs Cena/Rhodes Bros match last year was epic and I feel like it gets underlooked.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I only watched Swagger/Rusev IV from Smackdown last week and I really liked it, as expected. Not exactly as great as SummerSlam, but not too far either. I don't have it on my ***1/2+ list, but it's not by much at all. Didn't care about anything else. Main Event sounds intriguing on paper, but in the space of 2 weeks, I'm beyond caring about the Wyatts/Black Show feud or the booking of the poor fucking Wyatts at this point tbh (thanks alot, "Creative" or shall I say creatively ASSHOLES).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I ain't even downloaded SD for about a month now. Barely watch 10 minutes of Raw. Haven't seen any other wrestling shows in months. I just keep up mainly out of habit I think. I miss looking forward to the next show and enjoying it every week .

Oh hey new video on my blog yey.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Was this match on your 'Best of TV' list for 1994 ATF?:

The Quebecers v Marty Jannetty & 123 Kid (RAW, 1/10/94)

Just came across it on Andy's blog and got a great write up. Need to watch it myself soon.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Newpe. Waltman was already signed for the Main Event/WWF Title match against Bret .


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

podcast with HHH is up


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

WrestlingOracle said:


> Just realized that HHH/Jericho is now overshadowing another potential classic tomorrow when JR interviews Stan Hansen. (hope JR doesnt hijack this whole convo like he does so many on his podcast) Guy has had a fascinating journey from as a young man being a recurring challenger of Brunno near Sammartino's peak to being one of the original gaijin stars wrestling famed brawls with the Funks w/Brody , remaining a star in the southern NWA region and in AWA breaking in Vader later in his career really raising his workmanship and having bust ass matches pivotal to the character/rise of a young Kobashi all the while having a style influencing a generation of big brawling wrestlers including attempted in ring emulation by JBL.
> 
> One of the most wacky promo cutters, in my opinion a top 5 in ring 300 plus pounder off top of my head and certainly a man who's seen it all and Im sure rolling w/ Brody, Harley, being managed by Blassie, the infamous Vader battles, battling the Funks, growing up in the biz among a cast of true legends, a star in AJPW, he has to have stories for days. I'd love to hear his thoughts on the biz today as well. Guy in look, ring style and promo delivery is the antithesis of modern day wrestling. REALLY looking up to that interview. Ive never seen a Hansen shoot and didnt read his book so anything he says is fresh to me and has been one of my favorites for some time.


Amen brother - thanks for the heads-up about the interview:rep

As much as he could be considered "the antithesis" of modern day wrestling, he would get over today (provided he gets to keep his performance(s) from the 70's/80's). Everything about Hansen fit - his brawling was so cohesive, and his face/body language, gimmick, all of it just fed into his persona. Something so simple, say a knee drop to the back of the head, is massively brutal from Hansen. Even the sloppiness just fit his wild, unpredictable nature. Getting mad and blindly chucking chairs in the ring, attacking fans, damn I love that big baby. Watch more Hansen:mark:

It actually reminds me of Brock now. The difference being that Hansen seemed legit, not because of outside accomplishments, but b/c you *knew* he was gonna beat the hell out of the unlucky soul across the ring from him. And when a babyface actually stood up to him and gave back, they were made. Kobashi, Funk, Jumbo, Misawa, Kawada, omg! Epic.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Thanks man. (Y) Knox was a beast once he grew that beard.
> 
> I liked Smackdown this week. Thought it flowed well and Swagger/Rusev delivered yet again. Main event was pretty solid too. Smackdown, especially around this time of year always has some sleepers. That Real Americans/Sandow vs Cena/Rhodes Bros match last year was epic and I feel like it gets underlooked.


Flying bear attack :mark:

Answer for why that is is probably due to WWE doing the match a few days later on RAW. iirc the Smackdown one was a touch better too; while both did rock. Akin to quite a bit of matches it feels like. Punk vs Ambrose off the top of my head. Or Danielson vs Ryback. But the real clincher is from this year: Cena, Sheamus, & Reigns vs Orton, Wyatt, Cesaro, & Del Rio from 6/20. Great match w/a lot of great showings. The kind of match that proves why the collection of talent is actually so good.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

JustJoel said:


> Amen brother - thanks for the heads-up about the interview:rep
> 
> As much as he could be considered "the antithesis" of modern day wrestling, he would get over today (provided he gets to keep his performance(s) from the 70's/80's). Everything about Hansen fit - his brawling was so cohesive, and his face/body language, gimmick, all of it just fed into his persona. Something so simple, say a knee drop to the back of the head, is massively brutal from Hansen. Even the sloppiness just fit his wild, unpredictable nature. Getting mad and blindly chucking chairs in the ring, attacking fans, damn I love that big baby. Watch more Hansen:mark:
> 
> It actually reminds me of Brock now. The difference being that Hansen seemed legit, not because of outside accomplishments, but b/c you *knew* he was gonna beat the hell out of the unlucky soul across the ring from him. And when a babyface actually stood up to him and gave back, they were made. Kobashi, Funk, Jumbo, Misawa, Kawada, omg! Epic.



Totally agree with you. I'm listening to the Hansen podcast right now and loving it. Stan Hansen could be a top guy in any era, including right now. He's got to be one of the top 10-15 guys to ever set foot in a ring, anywhere. His promos were ridiculous, his character outlandish, and his work was as believable as it gets. I'd plop down $50 right now to see a 1993 Stand Hansen vs 2014 John Cena match, or even better a Hansen vs Lesnar Apocolypse. You made a great point too, when a baby face would fire up after getting beat on by Hansen for a while, they were made for life for the most part. He was as good taking it and selling as he was giving it.

I didn't discover the awesomeness of Stan Hansen until about 6 months ago, but man I've been hooked on the guy ever since. His matches with Kobashi are some of my favorite ever bouts.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Still need to see the Hansen/Hennig match i've been meaning to for ages now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The obvious Hansen go to matches in my mind are vs Andre. But everyone go on the WWE Netork, put on COTC: Fall Brawl 90 & watch him squash Tom Zenk in awesome fashion and give a mindblowing promo complete w/chewing tobacco flying everywhere, thus grossing out Tony Schiavone. SIX?

Also, I love this:






did a ramble on it back in December:



> Bob Backlund(c) vs Stan Hansen - WWF Championship - NJPW 9/30/80
> 
> HOLY SHIT OMG GUYS
> 
> Everything here is just mean. I think Hansen pissed of Backlund more than anyone ever did. Bobby was going ape throughout all this. I thought his pissed off piledriver was the sickest thing he could bust out. Which he did here & FUCK at how he drilled it to look like he broke Hansen's neck. Don't ever let Bob Backlund give you an elbow to the face. Legit had the air sucked out of me b/c it caught me off guard from how straight it was into Hansen's jab. I've seen a lot less knock a man out. Tough bastards everywhere. Battle to win the advantage using nothing but eye rakes made me hard. This is fact. Match is basically perfection. Like really, how much out there will be better than this? It could end up being more than expected but good lord those are the kind of expectations I'd want to exceed. Any match that has Hansen turning a standing armbar into the most painful move ever is tough to beat. He was digging his meaty hand into the crevasse of Bob's bicep. Sickening in all the best ways. Lariat tease gets the top of the line gasp from the audience. Hansen had these fans in the palm of his hand on every night he worked. Magical. That guy didn't need top of the line mainstream success in the US to be a legend. Some always seem to say that he "should have" or it would have helped. Nah. Get that crap outta here. He was a king where he worked. That's all he needed. Backlund's brawling was even better than in the Texas Death Match I watched. While it was brilliant to see Bob be wild & sloppy w/his approach in taking down Patera in a brawl, he was a fucking badass when standing toe to toe vs Hansen. He's the best at everything & makes so many look bad when they attempt to copy. A pissed off Bob Backlund = a better Bob Backlund. And we all know mild mannered rasslin Bob is basically the idea of God if that fiend were to exist. Obviously this gets a nod. Unfuckwithable.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Wow, Hansen vs Backlund?! I've never heard of THAT particular matchup before. How fucking excellent, I'm watching that AS SOON as I get home. In fact, having just finished the Stan podcast, I'm going to now spend the rest of my evening (and possibly several more evenings) watching The Lariat dislodge people's heads. Hansen vs Kobashi, Hansen vs Dr. Death, Hansen vs Kawada, Hansen vs Backlund, and Hansen vs Tenryu will all be on the docket. I've got my Hansen vs Backlund match already, but if anyone has any Hansen recs, preferably against those guys I listed but if you have a real corker I don't give a shit who it's again. Stan Hansen appreciation day is going into full effect.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Stan Hansen vs. Toshiaki Kawada (2/28/93)
Stan Hansen & Terry Gordy vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Toshiaki Kawada (12/16/88)
Stan Hansen & Dan Spivey vs. Terry Gordy & Dr. Death (12/4/91)
Hansen/Gordy vs the Funk bros, Terry retirement match 8/31/83 
11/16/91 Hansen/Spivey v Misawa/Kawada

A couple i had rec'd to me.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You've never even heard of the Cage match between Hansen/Backlund, Chris? It's fucking good, imo. It's under 10 minutes long but they really do their best to make the cage their personal weapon. And they also put over their animosity quite well.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> You've never even heard of the Cage match between Hansen/Backlund, Chris? It's fucking good, imo. It's under 10 minutes long but they really do their best to make the cage their personal weapon. And they also put over their animosity quite well.


Nope, like I said I wasn't privy to the greatness of Hansen until 6 short months ago, since then I've actually never seen a match of his on US soil, all of the 30-40 matches of his I've seen are from Japan. I was really late in joining a forum to learn about all the fantastic wrestling I missed as a kid. I've been watching since I was 5 but I only ever saw WCW, WWE, and ECW on TV in my area (Washington, DC) so until I started posting in this thread I'd never seen many AJPW, NJPW, AAA, AWA, ROH, Memohis, PWG, or EMLL wrestling matches. I had no idea what I was missing.

I'm adding the cage to my list. I just got home from work so it's time for the Hansen marathon to commence. Think I'll start it by watching the Hansen promo where he spits chewing tobacco all over JR to get myself amped.



The Fab Four said:


> Stan Hansen vs. Toshiaki Kawada (2/28/93)
> Stan Hansen & Terry Gordy vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Toshiaki Kawada (12/16/88)
> Stan Hansen & Dan Spivey vs. Terry Gordy & Dr. Death (12/4/91)
> Hansen/Gordy vs the Funk bros, Terry retirement match 8/31/83
> ...


Thank you kindly


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Everybody should see Backlund/Inoki vs Hogan/Hansen from December of 1980 @ MSG. Such a great match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

There is also a Hansen/Slaughter match from AWA too, forgot the date. 

Hansen/Hogan is supposed to be good too.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> The obvious Hansen go to matches in my mind are vs Andre. But everyone go on the WWE Netork, put on COTC: Fall Brawl 90 & watch him squash Tom Zenk in awesome fashion and give a mindblowing promo complete w/chewing tobacco flying everywhere, thus grossing out Tony Schiavone. SIX?
> 
> Also, I love this:
> 
> ...


That match is awesome, saw it a few months back when I had this backlund kick (Y)


Just finished SCSA podcast w/ Foley pt. 1-2 and Y2J's podcast with HHH respectfully, cant get enough


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

HANSEN VS KAWADA. :mark:


----------



## Terminator GR (Oct 3, 2007)

Sting DVD trailer with voice over from the man himself


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> HANSEN VS KAWADA. :mark:


of all the matches Meltzer didn't give five stars to, I think this one deserves it the most. It's perfect.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> HANSEN VS KAWADA. :mark:





StuckInHell4-Life said:


> of all the matches Meltzer didn't give five stars to, I think this one deserves it the most. It's perfect.


Which Hansen/Kawada are you talking about? I just watched the 6/4/92 one and it's absolutely marvelous. However, the two matches that Meltzer didn't give 5-stars to that absolutely should have gotten it, over everything else, are Austin/Angle SS and Eddie/JBL JD. Although there are a ton of matches he both overrated the hell out of (Elgin/Richards for instance) and even more he underrated, he's just a fan like you or me who has his own tastes. He just happens to be the one who popularized the star system, it's like if Siskel or Ebert gave a movie 4 stars, doesn't mean their take is gospel.

While we are on the subject, which Kawada/Hansen is the best? And which Tenryu/Hansen is the best?

P.S I failed on my Hansen binge. I made it through 5 matches and took a quick break when I realized they uploaded 2 full years of Nitro on the Network and that I could watch Regal/Psicosis in Hd for the first time. Don't worry, I will be back on Hansen once I get a few nitro matches in. How dope is this though, seriously? The potential of the WWE Network is just immense. One day a year or two from now, I could decide to watch some pro graps and have every year of Raw, Smackdown, Nitro, Thunder, ECW TV, World Class, Mid South, or Memphis right at my finger tips. Amazing. I love technology.

P.s. Just in case you guys missed this, it's worth a read: http://www.layfieldreport.com/how-to-be-a-bad-guy-in-pro-wrestling.blog

This is the gospel truth on what a heel should be, as told by JBL. I agree with everything he said, right down to the fact that he says Finlay is the greatest heel of all time.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ok, so I finally got a Visa card and I'm contemplating getting the Network. Is it worth it? I mean it's only $9.99 but is there anything on there that I can't get online?


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Which Hansen/Kawada are you talking about?


2/28/93. I've not seen their 92 encounter. I think I have something to watch now :


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> HANSEN VS KAWADA. :mark:


Best gaijin singles match of 90s All Japan. Date for the best one is 2/28/93 Chris. One of the best matches of all time.

I don't remember if I've seen more than one of the Hansen/Tenryus. They have great tags, though, with and against each other. Tenryu/Kawada v. Hansen/Gordy 12/16/88 is an amazing tag, though, one of the best ever, probably. Tenryu/Kawada v. Hansen/Mossman 7/23/00 is maybe the best 2-on-2 tag of the 2000s.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

When did Nikki Bella become the GOAT diva? I'm watching last week's SmackDown because Cody said to and they showed the Brie/Nikki segment from the previous Raw and holy shit it was amazing. "STAY OUT OF IT OLD MAN!" King got fuckin owned and Nikki really went in on that beatdown too. I have a feeling this is going to be a program I enjoy way more than I should, at least based on that segment. Following up the greatness that was Brie/Stephanie.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> Ok, so I finally got a Visa card and I'm contemplating getting the Network. Is it worth it? I mean it's only $9.99 but is there anything on there that I can't get online?


They have:

Every Raw from 1993, 1994, 1995, 2012, 2013, and 2014 plus like 10-15 memorable episodes from other years. Also have every Smackdown from 2012-2014, they just started adding the entire first season from 1999, and again they have like 10 of the more memorable Smackdown episodes.

All the weekly Main Event, Superstar, and NXT tapings.

All the episodes of Saturday Nights Main Event 

Every Nitro from 1995 and 1996. 

Every Clash of the Champions

Every WWE/WCW/ECW PPV ever.

Every WWE documentary (like 20+) including the new 4+ hour Monday Night Wars documentary.

Legends house

Legends Roundtable

Assorted other goodies. For $9.99 a month you really can't beat it. Once you start watching everything in HD it's tough to go back to grainy YOUTUBE clips.



StuckInHell4-Life said:


> 2/28/93. I've not seen their 92 encounter. I think I have something to watch now :


Oh man it's definitely worth the watch.



Yeah1993 said:


> Best gaijin singles match of 90s All Japan. Date for the best one is 2/28/93 Chris. One of the best matches of all time.
> 
> I don't remember if I've seen more than one of the Hansen/Tenryus. They have great tags, though, with and against each other. Tenryu/Kawada v. Hansen/Gordy 12/16/88 is an amazing tag, though, one of the best ever, probably. Tenryu/Kawada v. Hansen/Mossman 7/23/00 is maybe the best 2-on-2 tag of the 2000s.


Obviously I haven't seen as much as you have, my personal favorite gaijin match from AJPW that I've seen is the July 93' Kobashi/Hansen match, but now you've got me SUPER excited for this Kawada match. And thanks a bunch for all those tags, I REALLY need to start working my way through all those AJPW classic heavyweight tag matches, there are just so many good ones I've yet to see. You haven't steered me wrong with your recs yet, and Tenryu/Kawada vs Hansen/Gordy just sounds like the best thing ever. This might sound blasphemous, but I've never really been into Bruiser Brody. I don't know what it is, but he just never does anything for me in the ring, and as a result I haven't really seen any of the classic Hansen/Brody tags. Hansen/Gordy on the other hand sounds just tremendous, what's a bruising, nasty team.

Just finished the Flair/Guerrero 5/20/96 Nitro match on the Network, blows everything else they ever did in the ring together out of the water, wayyyy better than Hog Wild or KotR. This is the match Flair talks about in his book when he says Brutus beefcake of all people pulled him aside when he came back and criticized Flair for "giving that Mexican jumping bean too much" in the ring. Ed Leslie, of all people, telling Flair how to wrestle with Guerrero is the most absurd thing I've ever heard of. Even more absurd was his reasoning, because Flair was supposed to work Hogan soon Beefcake didn't want Flair looking "weak" in a match HE WON to Eddie. Good grief, some people fpalm.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Most people prefer Hansen/Kobashi to Hansen/Kawada, I think. They used to, anywyay - the Hansen/Kawada >> supporters have been popping up more the past couple years. I wonder how it would have been had Meltzer given both five stars. Both are classics, anyway.

Bruiser Brody is not a good wrestler. He has a wild and awesome character and he'd swing his chain while stomping to the ring and you'd expect shit to go down. And it doesn't. The Hansen/Brody tags are typically good, though. Because, well, they have Hansen (aka GOATC) in them, and often have Terry Funk (aka GOATC) in them too. Hansen/Gordy v. Funks 8/31/83 (Funk's first retirement match) is better than any tag with Brody, though, and an amazing match as well. Add that to the list if you haven't seen it.

Agree with you on that Flair/Eddie match. Flair's best match of 96. He had some fun shit that year, too. And his promos...Jesus Christ....go watch some 1996 Flair promos.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> When did Nikki Bella become the GOAT diva? I'm watching last week's SmackDown because Cody said to and they showed the Brie/Nikki segment from the previous Raw and holy shit it was amazing. "STAY OUT OF IT OLD MAN!" King got fuckin owned and Nikki really went in on that beatdown too. I have a feeling this is going to be a program I enjoy way more than I should, at least based on that segment. Following up the greatness that was Brie/Stephanie.


Precisely during that segment :lol: That was only the second time in her career where she was given significant mic time, and she made really massive strides since the first.

If she keeps this up she'll be SCSA 8*D


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Nikki Bella is still total garbage on the mic, and as an actress. Those backstage segments were terrible, as have all her promos. I actually figured I'd enjoy her stuff more since she turned heel and could show a bit more personality, but she absolutely sucks. Brie does too, although at least people see that (then again, if Brie was the one that turned heel, I wonder if that would be the case). The whole feud is a hot mess and now they have to interject AJ and even Paige to keep it afloat. 

Also, I think it might've been semi-discussed before, but I listened to Jericho's podcast w/ HHH. I've enjoyed it quite a bit so far, but I can't wait until the second part for:


> _Chris: So, what happened with CM Punk? It was you, Vince, and him in the room before he left and a lot of fans out there have blamed the you and the WWE, saying you screwed Punk out of a Wrestlemania main event just so you could face (and beat) him at Mania. What's the truth in this?
> 
> HHH: Well Chris, people can't handle the truth. However no matter what way you, the fans, or even Punk himself spins it, I didn't screw CM Punk, Vince didn't screw CM Punk, and the WWE didn't screw CM Punk. CM Punk screwed CM Punk._


:mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So suddenly, I felt the urge to watch a Hansen vs Kawada match and after googling it, I went for the 6/4/1992 match. I still feel I'm not "getting" the Japanese style well enough to rate matches yet but I liked this one with the way they made it feel real by wrestling a non-stop physical style with a few sloppy shoves and kicks only making it look real and heated. Those bodyslams on the concrete... OUCH. Shame I don't understand a word from the commentary otherwise, I could find it easier to get invested.

To explain the sudden urge, I guess it has to do with the mention of "gaijin", which reminded me of the Yakuza which reminds me of GTA III which reminds me of relaxing near a pool on top of a casino. So imagination kicked in and I felt like watching a match from Japan with the cool looking rings they use.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You're almost there. I have confidence that Shinsuke Nakamura will make you a puro fan. Especially since you're an Orton fan. Either that or more Wild Pegasus matches. Which is never a bad thing because Benoit. The natural progression from the Hansen/AJPWGOATS series is the Dr. Death bouts.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Wild Pegasus was my way into puro. He's always easy entry into it if I need that extra motivation. What else does he have there worth watching? I've seen the Liger and Sasuke matches that are in Hard Knocks as well as the Eddie match everyone is raving about here.

It's gonna be nice to expand my horizons beyond just WWE stuff. The Network is gonna be perfect for me to familiarize myself with more WCW and ECW.

The Attitude Era shall also take over for the rest of this year considering the product is reaching 2012 level lows. It may be even worse to be completely honest. At least Sheamus was on fire two years ago and putting on quality matches. Plus bitching about Punk was actually kinda fun.  Now the only guys who interest me are absent, injured, buried or directionless.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Best gaijin singles match of 90s All Japan. Date for the best one is 2/28/93 Chris. One of the best matches of all time.


I do love me some Dr. Death & Gary Albright, but I'm certain this stands. It is HANSEN VS KAWADA. Even on paper it is the best. And Kawada > paper. Yeah, roll w/that.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Are we recommending great Hansen matches? If so, this one's awesome. Hansen pretty much fights with one arm:








sharkboy22 said:


> Ok, so I finally got a Visa card and I'm contemplating getting the Network. Is it worth it? I mean it's only $9.99 but is there anything on there that I can't get online?


Christopher pretty much covered it all, but yes, it's worth it. It's $9.99, that's nothing. You get every live PPV each month. That's enough for me right there.



Choke2Death said:


> Wild Pegasus was my way into puro. He's always easy entry into it if I need that extra motivation. What else does he have there worth watching? I've seen the Liger and Sasuke matches that are in Hard Knocks as well as the Eddie match everyone is raving about here.


I wasn't able to find it online but this match is an awesome sprint if you can get your hands on it:

*Best Of The Super Juniors II - Semi Final*
Black Tiger vs. Wild Pegasus (Chris Benoit)
_7/13/1995_


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Wild Pegasus/Black Tiger 6/11/96 is maybe the best match in the career of Benoit. Half of it is based around the sleeper hold, though, so if you haven't seen it don't go expecting a mat classic or anything. Then there's, of course, Pegasus/Regal 9/23/95 and Pegasus/Liger 8/19/90 and 2/10/92. Benoit has a much better catalogue outside of the US than I tend to remember.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

b/c Hansen was on topic & b/c I like Akiyama & want to put him over, here is this...match. I still like it:


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> They have:
> 
> Every WWE documentary (like 20+) including the new 4+ hour Monday Night Wars documentary.


Just for the sake of accuracy, they don't have all of WWE's documentaries. They do have quite a few, though, and seem to be adding one every week.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

No surprise that Rusev/Swagger IV (SD 8/29, that was their 4th match right?) was good. They brought the top notch selling of SummerSlam and Raw right from the opening bell so it really felt like two wounded animals fighting through the pain for their survival and pride. Only thing I didn't like was Rusev using the ankle lock. Why would he do that when Swagger's selling his ribs like death? Fine match even with that minor grievance, and I don't mean fine as in okay I mean fine as in good shit. I assume that's the end of the series with Swagger tapping out and moving on to deal with Bo but what a sweet mid-card program it was. Bring on Rusev/Henry.

EDIT: Reigns/Henry/Show v The Wyatts from the same show was okay. Started out good with a fun shine segment including a freakin sunset flip from Big Show. Don't think I've ever seen him do that before. Then after the commercial break the match was just kind of there without ever being BAD. Some of the interactions between Henry, Show and the Wyatts were cool but I didn't like any of it as much as the 2v2 on Raw. Big Show FIP portion didn't do much for me. Much rather see Henry in that role. Same old Reigns hot tag and offensive flurry didn't do much for me either. Not sure if it was because the control segment on Show wasn't very interesting or because Reigns' routine is becoming tiresome. Decent match. Not pimping it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*WCW: Slamboree 1997:*

*WCW World Television Champion Ultimo Dragon (w/Sonny Oono) vs. Steven Regal* ****
*Madusa vs. Luna Vachon* DUD
*Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Yuji Yasuraoka* **1/4
*Glacier vs. Mortis (w/James Vandenberg)* 1/4*
*WCW U.S. Champion Dean Malenko vs. Jeff Jarrett (w/Debra)* ***
*Chris Benoit (w/Woman) vs. Meng* ***1/2
*Rick & Scott Steiner vs. Konnan & Hugh Morrus (w/Jimmy Hart)* *1/4
*Steve McMichael (w/Debra) vs. Reggie White (w/Kent Johnson)* *
*Ric Flair, Roddy Piper, and Kevin Greene vs. Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, and Syxx* **1/2

_Great fucking opener, so glad Regal has the belt back. Saying that, Prince Ikea will probably win it back now. Benoit/Meng was all kinds of awesome, even though the ref forgot the rules of a 'Death Match' lol, can't wait until their other two PPV matches that year. Still can't believe WCW had THREE footballers on a PPV at the same time lol. Main event was still fun enough though, even though Flair is irrelevant atm, but he served the purpose here, and Piper has lost his muster but obviosuly is still over big, just not as much as WCW thinks or wants IMO. Plus the NWO were beaten clean at least._

PPV did feature this little Flair moment though. :lol


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Suddenly have the urge to watch Orton/Taker HIAC, have seen it be raved about and I think someone has it as MOTY that year. I've only seen their mania match


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Wow, haven't watched Taker/Orton HIAC in YEARS. Probably since 2006.

For fun, I decided to CTRL+F a list I have of top matches of the year (*** or more) to see whose names came up the most. The results?

Dean Ambrose with a total of 24 ***+ matches (13 individually, 11 with The Shield.)
Next up was Seth Rollins with 21, 11 in The Shield. Next, Sheamus, who has had a very consistent year followed by Cesaro and Reigns at 15 (11 matches of Reigns were with The Shield).

Daniel Bryan had 12 of them despite working the shortened year and Christian had 9 working an event shorter year.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Most people prefer Hansen/Kobashi to Hansen/Kawada, I think. They used to, anywyay - the Hansen/Kawada >> supporters have been popping up more the past couple years. I wonder how it would have been had Meltzer given both five stars. Both are classics, anyway.
> 
> Bruiser Brody is not a good wrestler. He has a wild and awesome character and he'd swing his chain while stomping to the ring and you'd expect shit to go down. And it doesn't. The Hansen/Brody tags are typically good, though. Because, well, they have Hansen (aka GOATC) in them, and often have Terry Funk (aka GOATC) in them too. Hansen/Gordy v. Funks 8/31/83 (Funk's first retirement match) is better than any tag with Brody, though, and an amazing match as well. Add that to the list if you haven't seen it.
> 
> Agree with you on that Flair/Eddie match. Flair's best match of 96. He had some fun shit that year, too. And his promos...Jesus Christ....go watch some 1996 Flair promos.


I love how hard Flair worked to make Eddie seem like a big deal in that match. Flair is at his best when working with a younger baby face and getting him over. All the begging off and the way Flair sold Eddies offense and even the fear he would emote when Eddie fired up was just excellent. Obviously Eddie was good in the match, he did everything right, had plenty of fire on his comebacks, and even sold well. But Flair flat out MADE that Nitro match, no getting around it.

Come to think of it, Flair/Eddie Nitro 5/20/96 is like the reverse Eddie/Jericho FB 1997 if you think about it. Jericho was really good in the FB match but the match was MADE by Eddies heel antics and character. I guess he learned a thing or two from Flair 



Yeah1993 said:


> Wild Pegasus/Black Tiger 6/11/96 is maybe the best match in the career of Benoit. Half of it is based around the sleeper hold, though, so if you haven't seen it don't go expecting a mat classic or anything. Then there's, of course, Pegasus/Regal 9/23/95 and Pegasus/Liger 8/19/90 and 2/10/92. Benoit has a much better catalogue outside of the US than I tend to remember.


I actually have the 6/11/96 Eddy/Benoit match as the best of Benoits career as well. It's my favorite NJPW Juniors match that I've seen. Every single time Benoit locks that sleeper in again, you feel all the air just being sucked out of the crowd. And they have one of the best finishing stretches I've ever seen, where they some how manage to hit big moves in succession, sell the moves properly, AND have you be genuinely shocked for each kick out. That's tough to do, most matches only manage 2/3 of those things, at best.



Hayley Seydoux said:


> b/c Hansen was on topic & b/c I like Akiyama & want to put him over, here is this...match. I still like it:


Funnyfaces mentioned Doctor Death, wasn't it you that turned me onto an amazing Williams match from AJPW in the mid 90s? I distinctly remember watching one at your recommendation and thinking it was one of the greatest things I've ever seen, but for the life of me I can't remember who it would have been against...


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Bryan is a serious contender for WOTY for all the good stuff he had in less than half of the year. None of his PPV matches was below ***3/4, only one was below **** (Bryan/Kane), and the stuff he's had on TV was consistently great too. Despite that, I'd still say Ambrose is current WOTY.

For the sake of entertainment, I decided to take myself time to fabricate new TV-only match cards - only this time, it's for generations/eras. You might notice different matches than those I've posted in all the single year cards. That's because opening the cards to an entire era allowed for a far bigger area to choose from, including plenty of classics I couldn't select for the years. So here they are:



Spoiler: New Generation Era (1993-1996)



Pre-show match
Jerry Lawler vs. Owen Hart
Wrestling Challenge 7/25/1993

Intercontinental Championship match
Diesel (c) vs. Lex Luger
Raw 7/18/1994

WWF Tag Team Championship match
The Steiner Brothers (c) vs. The Quebecers
Raw 9/13/1993

Shawn Michaels vs. The British Bulldog
Raw 3/6/1995

Women's Championship match
Alundra Blayze (c) vs. Bull Nakano
Raw 8/1/1994

2 out of 3 Falls match
Doink The Clown vs. Marty Jannetty
Raw 6/14/1993

Steve Austin vs. Mankind
Raw 8/1/1996

Loser Leaves Town match
Ric Flair vs. Mr. Perfect
Raw 1/25/1993

WWF Championship match
Bret Hart (c) vs. The 123-Kid
Raw 7/11/1994





Spoiler: Attitude Era (1997-2001)



Pre-show match
European Championship match
Chris Jericho (c) vs. Eddie Guerrero
Raw 4/3/2000

Falls Count Anywhere match
Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. Cactus Jack
Raw 9/22/1997

Bret Hart vs. Goldust
Raw 9/22/1997

WCW United States Championship match
Kurt Angle (c) vs. Kane
Smackdown 11/1/2001

Hardcore Championship match
The Undertaker (c) vs. Tajiri
Smackdown 12/27/2001

WWF Tag Team Championship Ladder match
The Hardys (c) vs. Edge & Christian
Raw 9/25/2000

2-on-1 Handicap Tables match
The Rock vs. The Dudley Boyz
Smackdown 9/3/2000

European Championship match
Owen Hart vs. The British Bulldog
Raw 3/3/1997

WWF Championship match
Steve Austin (c) vs. Chris Benoit
Smackdown 5/31/2001





Spoiler: Ruthless Agression Era (2002-2007)



Pre-show match
Edge vs. Randy Orton
Raw 4/30/2007

ECW Championship Last Chance match
John Morrison (c) vs. CM Punk
ECW 9/1/2007

Finlay vs. Matt Hardy
Smackdown 6/22/2007

Women's Championship match
Trish Stratus (c) vs. Lita
Raw 12/6/2004

John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels
Raw 4/23/2007

Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio
Smackdown 6/23/2005

World Tag Team Championship TLC match
Kane (c) vs. Vitamin C vs. Jeff Hardy & Rob Van Dam vs. Bubba Ray Dudley & Spike Dudley
Raw 10/7/2002

World Heavyweight Championship match
Kurt Angle (c) vs. The Undertaker
Smackdown 3/3/2006

WWE Championship match
Brock Lesnar (c) vs. Chris Benoit
Smackdown 12/4/2003





Spoiler: PG Era (2008-present)



Pre-show match
The Usos & Trent Barreta vs. Tyson Kidd, Heath Slater & Justin Gabriel
Superstars 6/30/2011

WWE Tag Team Championship No DQ match
The Shield (c) vs. The Rhodes Brothers
Raw 10/14/2013

William Regal vs. Kassius Ohno
NXT 4/10/2013

2 out of 3 Falls match
Antonio Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn
NXT 8/21/2013

ECW Championship match
Jack Swagger (c) vs. Christian
ECW 2/24/2009

The Undertaker vs. Chris Jericho
Smackdown 11/13/2009

WWE Championship match
Rey Mysterio (c) vs. John Cena
Raw 7/25/2011

Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan
Raw 12/16/2013

World Heavyweight Championship vs. Career Steel Cage match
CM Punk (c) vs. Jeff Hardy
Smackdown 8/28/2009



Which one(s) rule(s) the most?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Flair is the Greatest of all time


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Bryan is a serious contender for WOTY for all the good stuff he had in less than half of the year. None of his PPV matches was below ***3/4, only one was below **** (Bryan/Kane), and the stuff he's had on TV was consistently great too. Despite that, I'd still say Ambrose is current WOTY.
> 
> For the sake of entertainment, I decided to take myself time to fabricate new TV-only match cards - only this time, it's for generations/eras. You might notice different matches than those I've posted in all the single year cards. That's because opening the cards to an entire era allowed for a far bigger area to choose from, including plenty of classics I couldn't select for the years. So here they are:
> 
> ...



Out of those cards, by FAR the Ruthless Aggression card is the best. I mean you have Eddie/Rey, Brock/Benoit, and Angle/Taker, 3 of the top 4 greatest TV matches ever. You aren't beating that, and the rest of the card is amazing too. I'd watch all of them and love it. But RA is my pick. One thing though, I would have gone with that awesome Orton/RVD Raw match instead of Orton/Edge. That's the only change I believe I'd make
.


Eva Marie said:


> Flair is the Greatest of all time


Well, yea.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

No shit Flair is the greatest of all time .

Chris, can't argue with Eddie/Rey and Brock/Benoit as two of the TV GOAT's, but I believe the Angle/Taker you're thinking of is the WWE Title match from 2003. This one, if you read closely, is the one from March 2006, the WHC one. You know, the one after NWO 2006 - I think you get it . Doesn't make it less incredible though. It is still an amazing match, although not anywhere near on the level of the 2003 one, which is damn near ***** for me.

Oh, and I'm also preparing now as perfect cards as possible for all the eras (including the Golden one), without throwing away anything - PPV's, TV matches, MSG matches, VHS tapes, even house fucking shows if necessary. I just finished the Golden Era one and it's fucking GOAT imho.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Speaking of Benoit in Japan, cam across this video earlier:


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

ATF said:


> Bryan is a serious contender for WOTY for all the good stuff he had in less than half of the year. None of his PPV matches was below ***3/4, only one was below **** (Bryan/Kane), and the stuff he's had on TV was consistently great too. Despite that, I'd still say Ambrose is current WOTY.



I honestly have Bryan/Kane at *** or ***1/4. It was a fun brawl, but it was that, a brawl. Not much wrestling or anything, but Bryan showed he could work that style of match easily in WWE and he got a good match out of Kane.

If he didn't get injured, he'd definitely be wrestler of the year, but right now, Ambrose has it with Rollins on his tail.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I love how hard Flair worked to make Eddie seem like a big deal in that match. Flair is at his best when working with a younger baby face and getting him over. All the begging off and the way Flair sold Eddies offense and even the fear he would emote when Eddie fired up was just excellent. Obviously Eddie was good in the match, he did everything right, had plenty of fire on his comebacks, and even sold well. But Flair flat out MADE that Nitro match, no getting around it.
> 
> Come to think of it, Flair/Eddie Nitro 5/20/96 is like the reverse Eddie/Jericho FB 1997 if you think about it. Jericho was really good in the FB match but the match was MADE by Eddies heel antics and character. I guess he learned a thing or two from Flair
> 
> ...


My guess would be that it was Death v. Kobashi (DAT ***** classic). I echo your sentiments on paying money to see a prime-era Hansen v. Cena or Lesnar - TAKE THE MONEY! 

---

So, that Hansen interview by JR was great, and that piece by JBL about heels perfectly echoes the gist of Hansen's mentality. I loved Hansen's rule of 3, where if your not selling for him by the third shot he gives you, the next one's gonna *make* you sell:mark: Also, that he would spit tobacco at fans who dared cheer him "Maybe that's going to far, but I didn't want them cheering me" :lmao:mark: And of course, the story of him throwing the belt at Baba during the introduction of their title match - "I thought he'd move out of the way, or duck, or something.":mark: But he didn't and the belt busted Baba open *Nacho Libre voice*Stan Hansen, you're good. You're THE BEST*Nacho Libre voice* Just drawing that heat - getting that animosity - it made every match so special. That Backlund match that Hayley pimped is worth every second. So much fire; it takes me back. 

Though the classic tag team is usually thought of as Hansen & Brody, I actually really like Hansen with DiBiase. They're more dynamic with DiBiase as a technician and Hansen as Hansen More short-lived as a tag, but they have a few against Jumbo & Tiger Mask (Misawa) from '87 that are must-see. You see the fire & ice between the two gaijins as DiBiase is all headlock takeovers and fireman's carry, and Hansen is just clobbering people. DiBiase does his sick shoulder-to-turnbuckle spot, and there's a great Jumbo "stumble" during his run to the tb, which causes him to hit the ringpost shoulder-first:mark: I love stuff like that. Add in a diving sunset flip and a BRUTAL lariat, and Bam: STARZ~! :usangle

ETA: I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the story JR told about how he was commentating Hansen/Luger (back then, the announcer's table was pushed right next to the ring) and JR heard Luger say "Goddamnit Stan, take it easy!" and started talking louder b/c JR feared Luger's whining might get picked up by his mic. :lmao:lmao:lmao Sorry, Sexy Lexie but no quarter - NO QUARTER GIVEN


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> No shit Flair is the greatest of all time .
> 
> Chris, can't argue with Eddie/Rey and Brock/Benoit as two of the TV GOAT's, but I believe the Angle/Taker you're thinking of is the WWE Title match from 2003. This one, if you read closely, is the one from March 2006, the WHC one. You know, the one after NWO 2006 - I think you get it . Doesn't make it less incredible though. It is still an amazing match, although not anywhere near on the level of the 2003 one, which is damn near ***** for me.
> 
> Oh, and I'm also preparing now as perfect cards as possible for all the eras (including the Golden one), without throwing away anything - PPV's, TV matches, MSG matches, VHS tapes, even house fucking shows if necessary. I just finished the Golden Era one and it's fucking GOAT imho.



Shit yea you're right dude forgot that 2k3 one was for the WWE title not the WHC. Still doesn't change much, as I have that 2006 SD match at ****1/2, almost as good as their NWO classic which I gave ****3/4, same as the 2003 SD match.

Here is a fun challenge for you since you love making cards: make an 8 match card, where the tag team, IC, US, WWE, and WHC titles are all defended (plus 3 bonus matches). You can use TV and PPV matches from any era, BUT, all the matches have to be 10 minutes long or less. If it runs over 10 by a minute or two, that's fine, but no 13-15 minute matches allowed. All short and sweet. For WHC and US title matches feel free to use matches from WCW. Make the best card possible with all sub 10 minute matches. That would be a challenge I think.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

So there's a HHH promo at the beginning and end of that show to fill time?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just making sure that was a general consensus, Go Naitch


Knocking through these nitro's like they are nothing ARN !!!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Love Naitch but my GOAT is and will always be Stone Cold Steve Austin.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I actually have the 6/11/96 Eddy/Benoit match as the best of Benoits career as well. It's my favorite NJPW Juniors match that I've seen. Every single time Benoit locks that sleeper in again, you feel all the air just being sucked out of the crowd. And they have one of the best finishing stretches I've ever seen, where they some how manage to hit big moves in succession, sell the moves properly, AND have you be genuinely shocked for each kick out. That's tough to do, most matches only manage 2/3 of those things, at best.


Seriously. That finishing stretch was so amazing. They kept trading big moves and as I didn't know the outcome, it was shocking every time they kicked out. Specially the Dragon Suplex. _(God, I love that move)_

I still didn't like it as much as others here because I felt they overdid the use of the sleeper. I might appreciate it more on another watch, though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Shit yea you're right dude forgot that 2k3 one was for the WWE title not the WHC. Still doesn't change much, as I have that 2006 SD match at ****1/2, almost as good as their NWO classic which I gave ****3/4, same as the 2003 SD match.
> 
> Here is a fun challenge for you since you love making cards: make an 8 match card, where the tag team, IC, US, WWE, and WHC titles are all defended (plus 3 bonus matches). You can use TV and PPV matches from any era, BUT, all the matches have to be 10 minutes long or less. If it runs over 10 by a minute or two, that's fine, but no 13-15 minute matches allowed. All short and sweet. For WHC and US title matches feel free to use matches from WCW. Make the best card possible with all sub 10 minute matches. That would be a challenge I think.


Challenge accepted :cool2

I always like to add a pre-show match to my card for good measure of bringing in a good ol' gem, and I also had the Cruiserweight Title defended. I wanted to use at least one more WCW match for that reason, but I decided to keep it to only one (the WHC title match):



> Pre-show match
> Mark Henry vs. Evan Bourne
> ECW 6/16/2009
> 
> ...


 Now put your money where your mouth is and give all of that a watch and bring in DEM STARZ~ :agree:


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Jericho just lost a match against Kofi because he held his trunks while attempting a pin :lmao :lmao

Way to build up Kofi as credible: wins the title because of HBK and only keeps it because of a DQ finish the following night. And Jericho even destroyed him post-match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Love Naitch but my GOAT is and will always be Stone Cold Steve Austin.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Benoit has had so many great matches it's unreal, but I don't know if he was ever better than that night against Eddie. The timing he had for each time he locked the sleeper in was sheer perfection. Eddie would fire up a come back, it would get to the point where you finally think things have turned the corner and he was gonna win the match, then the smallest opening would appear and Benoit would lock the sleeper in, again, and the entire Japanese crowd would make that "OHHHH" noise when they see something they really like. Again and again Eddie would come back, but Benoit kept cutting him off with that sleeper at the PERFECT moment. Having a great match is like, atleast 50% on how well you time the transitions, and Benoit had about as perfect a timing as you could want that night. Plus as you mentioned, they traded straight BOMBS in the end with some gorgeous suplexes and power bombs and tombstones that had you jumping to your feet for every kick out. A sure fire 5-star classic in my eyes.

As for the Austin/Flair debate, Austin is the biggest star ever in my book, he's the best WWE champion ever (if I'm not being biased and picking Eddie or Foley just cause ), he had my personal favorite in ring year ever for a main eventer (2001), and his heel character is one of my top 3 favorites of all time. I simply have to give the nod to Flair as the best for the staggering longevity, and how he was delivering 5-star quality matches in 3 separate decades (1985, 1995, 2005). Also, his 1989 is just absurd, with 5 matches being worthy of a "perfect" rating. So yea, personal preference I enjoy watching Austin more, but I can't go against Naitch. He was "the man" for far too long for anyone to be placed above him.



ATF said:


> Challenge accepted :cool2
> 
> I always like to add a pre-show match to my card for good measure of bringing in a good ol' gem, and I also had the Cruiserweight Title defended. I wanted to use at least one more WCW match for that reason, but I decided to keep it to only one (the WHC title match):
> 
> Now put your money where your mouth is and give all of that a watch and bring in DEM STARZ~ :agree:


I certainly will. I made that challenge for selfish reasons, I was sure you'd enjoy doing it but really I wanted a sweet custom PPV I could watch in less than 90 minutes when I get home from work today. I'll PM you my ratings, as I haven't seen several of those matches before, and out of the 3-4 I have seen, only Angle/Rey was recently. Looks like one bad ass card tbh.

Great job Andrew. Props :mark::


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Muta just debuted on Nitro and then joined the NWO. I did wonder what Muta and Chono were doing as they stalling forever. 

Onoo's face when Chono was attacking him though. :lol

Ending to last week's Nitro was fucking great with Sting coming up through the ring to attack Bischoff.

Just watched the Nitro with this ending: :mark: One of the best fucking endings EVER


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I certainly will. I made that challenge for selfish reasons, I was sure you'd enjoy doing it but really I wanted a sweet custom PPV I could watch in less than 90 minutes when I get home from work today. I'll PM you my ratings, as I haven't seen several of those matches before, and out of the 3-4 I have seen, only Angle/Rey was recently. Looks like one bad ass card tbh.
> 
> Great job Andrew. Props :mark::


You're welcome bud :cool2

Oh, and them gems keep on coming. Here's a possible take on what the greatest card the WWE could ever put on would look like:



> Pre-show match
> Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn
> NXT Arrival 2014
> (My rating: ****3/4)
> ...


 :homer x Infinity.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Once ATF made a list and a question arose by an AE mark outsider who doesn't frequent the almighty DVD/Match thread- "WHERE THE HELL IS ANGLE/BENOIT, HUNTER/ROCK AND ROCK/AUSTIN, YOU HIGH? WOW YOU HAVE HORRIBLE TASTE, YOU MUST'VE BEEN TOO YOUNG TO WATCH THE ATTITUDE ERWWA, YOU HAVE LESNAR/PUNK BUT DON'T HAVE ANY ROCK MATCHES YOU'RE A WEIRDO"


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

It almost feels wrong that Austin vs. Angle SSlam 01 isn't on there


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah but no fucking chance I was gonna drop Austin/Bret for that :



MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Once ATF made a list and a question arose by an AE mark outsider who doesn't frequent the almighty DVD/Match thread- "WHERE THE HELL IS ANGLE/BENOIT, HUNTER/ROCK AND ROCK/AUSTIN, YOU HIGH? WOW YOU HAVE HORRIBLE TASTE, YOU MUST'VE BEEN TOO YOUNG TO WATCH THE ATTITUDE ERWWA, YOU HAVE LESNAR/PUNK BUT DON'T HAVE ANY ROCK MATCHES YOU'RE A WEIRDO"


:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

Who was that guy, I need to know him closer


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just goes to show 'outsiders' don't belong in here.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Yeah but no fucking chance I was gonna drop Austin/Bret for that :
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Here is my "GOAT" card:

Triple Main Event:

Steve Austin vs Bret Hart Submission Match WM 13 ***** 
Eddie vs JBL Judgement Day 2004 (WWE Title match) *****
Ric Flair vs Terry Funk Great American Bash 1989 (WHC match) *****

Mid Card:

HBK vs The Undertaker Hell in a Cell Badd Blood 1997 *****
Cactus Jack vs Randy Orton Hardcore Match Backlash 2004 (IC Title) *****
Sgt. Slaughter vs Iron Sheik Boot Camp Match MSG 1984 *****
The Shield vs The Wyatt Family Elimination Chamber 2014 (Tag Titles) ****3/4

Opener:

Chris Benoit vs Fit Finlay Judgement Day 2006 ****3/4

Pre-Show:

Cesaro vs Zayn ArRival 2014 ****3/4

I dunno Andrew, I think I might have you beat. It appears we have very similar tastes though 

I just realized 6 of my 9 matches have copious amounts of blood being spilled. I don't know what that says about me tbh :lmao


Just finished Kawada/Hansen. Damn. About 75% of the way through I was all set to confirm that Kobashi/Hansen 7/29/93 is still the undisputed GOAT gaijin match, but everything that happened once Hansen missed the lariat and Kawada caught him with the boot forced me to reconsider. I really can't tell you which was better to be honest. It's just too close to call. Hansen was as good as ever, as mean as ever, and as ornery as ever. If someone has a Websters handy, can you please confirm that for the definition of "ornery" there is just a picture of Stan Hansen's mean, squished up looking face starring back at the reader? I have to believe that is the case at this point. This was some of the most stiff, believable work in a match I've ever seen. It wasn't stiff for stiffness sake, more just two guys striving for the highest amount of realism in a pro wrestling match. The amount of punishment Kawada took is simply inhuman, MMA fighters don't receive beatings as bad as the one Kawada took from Hansen here. Every knee Hansen dropped looked like it could have killed Kawada, every kick Kawada threw was full force, right on the money. Kawadas kicks make the same slapping sound as ADR's, only Kawada doesn't achieve it through slapping his thigh. No, Toshiaki just legitimately kicks people right in the fucking face and chest. Unreal, just an absolute corker of a match and easily one of the greatest matches I've ever seen.

That's a 5-star bout for certain, absolute perfection.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I prefer the above card infinitely. 

Speaking of Angle vs Undertaker, today it becomes 11 years since it aired. I will have to rewatch it after I finish this 1998 Raw episode the week after Tyson "joined" DX.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'd like to think that this kind of cards aren't meant to be beaten, because you know, DIFFERENT STARZ~, but color me humbled, your card is superior. Even if you kinda cheated on using Flair/Funk :side:.

Angle/Taker in 2003. Talk about mere steps away from absolute perfection. The ending was totally the anti-Austin/Angle though - it didn't add to almost anything, barely to the story imho. Yeah, Brock had a beef with Taker and Angle too I guess, but... after 15+ minutes of incredibleness, THAT is how the match ends? Couldn't have they done some cookie cutter countout ending or some screwjob instead? Ah, anyway. Let's still not take away that what goes down beforehand is as awesome as it gets.

Speaking of that pairing, it's such a shame that these two were in one of the most underwhelmingly booked matches in all of 2000. I'm talking about Fully Loaded. If Survivor Series '00 a few months later is an indication that the chemistry they had together was gained rather early, then you guys know that Angle/Taker at FL 2000 could've delievered hard instead of being a disappointing squash and it would've allowed for a contender for GOAT Triple Main Event and GOAT PPV even.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Angle/Taker/Rock too. :mark:

I just fucking love all the shit Taker pulled out in that '03 match. The counters, the extra MMA stuff, he was just letting it all hang out, trying new stuff and even by then, still developing in the ring. Amazing.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Watching every Ambrose match from 2014, so many good TV matches.

The Shield-Los Matadores/Sin Cara on Main Event is great.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

lmao just realized the Panthers play on Sunday Night Football the night of Night of Champions. Earlier I was thinking I'd give it a shot at least but that's completely out the window now. :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I prefer ATF's card. And it could be better if he added TLC I and Benoit/Jericho RR 01.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

What would you guys say the average combined match time for each PPV? I want to make one of these cards but I want to see how realistic I make it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Mankind's piano theme that played after he won matches is GOAT. Nothing can top it.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Mankind's piano theme that played after he won matches is GOAT. Nothing can top it.


It got a proper send off at survivor series 98. They played it like 4 times lol.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

KingLobos said:


> It got a proper send off at survivor series 98. They played it like 4 times lol.


Oh lord, that PPV. The Attitude Era podcast episode on it is hilarious. :lmao Austin acting like a sore loser at the end of the show. Reminiscent of Cena at the end of last year's Survivor Series, except worse.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Oh lord, that PPV. The Attitude Era podcast episode on it is hilarious. :lmao Austin acting like a sore loser at the end of the show. Reminiscent of Cena at the end of last year's Survivor Series, except worse.


I can't imagine Russo or McMahon writing that ending. They both understand heel heat. That just reaks of Austin saying "I'll lose but I better have the last laugh". Awful way to debut a new champion.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brye said:


> What would you guys say the average combined match time for each PPV? I want to make one of these cards but I want to see how realistic I make it.


Since every PPV is 3 hours, and they add on average about 30 or so minutes of filler, I'd shoot for like 130-140 minutes worth of matches, that'll give time for backstage segments, promos, announcers talking, video packages, etc. Most PPV's have about 7-8 matches on average unless they are doing something special like an Ironman match, a squash, or more than one short match


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Didn't Austin close just about every show by stunning whoever won? Armageddon 2000 also comes to mind. Although to his credit, he was entertaining which is why he got away with it.

1998 has been awesome so far. I'm only two weeks away from Wrestlemania and racing through the weeklies. Not much memorable for match quality but the segments are non-stop entertainment. And to think what's possibly the very best has yet to come as The Rock hasn't fully found his comfort zone now even though he's getting there.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Funnyfaces mentioned Doctor Death, wasn't it you that turned me onto an amazing Williams match from AJPW in the mid 90s? I distinctly remember watching one at your recommendation and thinking it was one of the greatest things I've ever seen, but for the life of me I can't remember who it would have been against...


Misawa, brother.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I still maintain that Misawa/Williams from 93 (IDER which one, 9/3 most likely) would be as good as Williams/Kobashi if the second half of the match lived up to the first.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Could I get the dates of every Eddie/Benoit WCW match ?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't think it's possible to give every date because of all the matches they had in those C/D shows that aren't listed on profightdb or cagematch.net.

Ryback vs. Daniel Bryan on that same RAW as Orton/Kane/Bryan vs. The Shield is really fucking great. Not just good, but fucking great. I love Bryan dishing out the forearms on Ryback after locking him in an Indian Deathlock. And that Lou Thesz Press reversed into a Single Leg Crab. Bryan just knows how to time his comebacks and get the most out of every bit of offense. Although Ryback's selling was shitty per usual, he showed so many different facial expressions and emotions ranging from arrogance to surprise to anger to even fear. And that Powerbomb that led to a Yes Lock. Holy crap that crowd went insane for that spot! Heroic performance by Bryan in what is probably Ryback's best match. If you're in the mood for a match that you know is good but want to revisit in order to love it even more, this is it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Love the heck out of that match , but might prefer the SD sprint just a tad more


----------



## Emotion Blur (May 7, 2012)

Eva Marie said:


> Could I get the dates of every Eddie/Benoit WCW match ?


On TV, Eddie and Benoit had 21 singles matches in WCW (never had a PPV singles match). Sure you want that list?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I thought they only had about 5 nitro matches


----------



## Emotion Blur (May 7, 2012)

Eva Marie said:


> I thought they only had about 5 nitro matches


You didn't say only Nitro 

Oct. 16, 1995
Nov. 06, 1995
Apr. 22, 1996
Jul. 15, 1996
Oct. 28, 1996
Nov. 18, 1996
Dec. 23, 1996
Oct. 20, 1997


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wow, this place seems kinda dead atm .

*WARNING: GIGANTIC MATCH REVIEWS AHEAD. LAZY ASSHOLES ARE NOT RECOMMENDED TO READ UNLESS THEY WANNA BE ENLIGHTENED BY MY FABULOUS OPINIONS.
*


Spoiler: Horribly long reviews



So yeah, bringing it back to life. I decided to rewatch a match that gets A LOT of bad flack out here - the Ladder match between HBK and Jericho. But not before I watched the Unsanctioned match from Unforgiven. Which was very good imo. 

Starts off exactly as well as it should, with both men beating and even stiffing each other up as much as possible. Mostly everything that's a spot in this match doesn't feel like a painfully obvious setup, coming off rather naturally even if predictable. I think someone, I believe Rah, turned the match off after the point where HBK did his "stopping the SCM because he feels he hasn't had enough of beating up Jericho". I don't see what's the big issue with that seeing how it was set: Jericho was controlling Shawn, mostly over his back which Shawn came back from in rather iffy fashion (which is his selling in this match resumed in a nutshell tbh, iffy), and he went for the SCM out of natural instinct, but midway through he reminded himself that this is an Unsanctioned match and that was the man who fucking punched his wife in the face. Cade's interference was actually well done here (DAT LARIAT), Jericho and Cade working over the injured arm was sweet, and despite the rather odd choice of an ending, the finishing stretch was nice. 

Of course, the match is certainly flawed - HBK's selling is, like I said, iffy and dare I even mention it as quite spotty; the back work which by this point is a natural in HBK/Jericho matches went... nowhere; and I didn't like the ending all that much. But everything else was heated enough and didn't come off as a setup enough to make me quite like it. I'd probably give it around ***1/4 or ***1/2, more probably the former.

But now onto the Ladder match. Well, I can certainly see the problems. Chain wrestling to start things off? In a feud as supposedly "personal" as this?! Fuck outta here. Neither men even tried to hit a marked target - their injured arms. Which, you know, would've actually made sense in a LADDER MATCH, where you have to CLIMB A LADDER AND RETRIEVE A BELT to win. There was some iffy selling along the way. AND THOSE GODDAMN STUPID SPOTS. I'm not a fan of someone who dives into a weapon (in this case ladders) w/a guy under it because "he doesn't care about hurting himself to hurt the other". That SORTA worked with Sabu because THAT'S HIS FUCKING CHARACTER - a SUICIDAL, homicidal, whatever Arab who has no care in the world for his own body in order to inflict pain in others. And it still came off as stupid anyway. Why the fuck do you need to do that kind of spot when you can simply throw the weapon into him repeatedly? Or you could just, I don't know, place the Goddamn weapon under the guy so that it ONLY hurts him? I can see it working if the spot is a desperate quick thinking move (or if you're just fucking insane ), but that certainly wasn't the case here as they purposefully set those spots up like that. Why did Shawn felt like he needed to fucking break his elbow just to hurt Jericho a little - not to mention he didn't really sell that in the long term anyway? Why did Jericho feel like he needed to potentially crack his ribs just to give Shawn a taste of his medicine? UUUUGGGGHHHH. 

BUT... that being said, why just only focus on the two stupid spots when there's a thousand others in this match that were actually done right? Once they stopped being morons for the beggining part and actually started brawling like they should've from the get go, the match much picked up. These two were doing exactly what two guys in a personal feud who are placed in a Ladder match should: fucking MURDERING each other w/the ladders. They would attempt to lay the other down for good, and afterwards they would try to go for the title. Simple formula that done right equals perfect execution. And the best moments of that formula in this match were just magnificent. Like, Jericho going for his bulldog but getting thrown into a ladder instead and injuring his leg, and the following knee work that came off of the ladder bump, which ended when Jericho stopped a Figure 4 by shoving a ladder's edge right into HBK's face. Hell, let's face facts - HBK's RIDICULOUS ladder elbow drop had as a target Jericho's injured knee. Admitedly, the knee selling by Y2J wasn't the best in the long term, but Jericho never stopped acknowledging it and it did lead to a better execution of one spot where Jericho fell almost 20 feet legs first. Basically, great bulk of the match was them using ladders as a device to kill the other, and then attempt to get the belt. Worked. Simple. 

The finishing stretch was actually kinda cool. Jericho's knee is trapped in the ladder but Cade comes out to save his ass from losing the title. Cade proves to be enough of a distraction for Jericho to free himself, then he and Shawn lock in a tug of war over the title, which lead to a great visual. And then Jericho headbutts HBK in his supposedly injured eye to win. Very good ending for me.

The match itself overall is good imo. Iffy selling on some parts, chain wrestling where you would NEVER want it, and of course those ridiculously ridiculous stupid spots halfway through are remarkable flaws. However, it's an exaggeration for me to say the match was horrible just because of them. It would be ignoring that the greater bulk of the match was two guys who hated each other killing one another with ladders, and also trying to reach a World Title in the process. Don't see what's such the bad fuss about it. The glaring flaws are there, and they certainly detract from the match, but I'd be lying if I said that I didn't at least really like it and think of it as, while overrated on one hand, underrated on another. I'd give it around the same as the Unsanctioned match: ***1/4 or ***1/2, more leaning to the latter in this case.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Paragraphs dude.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Spoilered and SORTA paragraphed them now .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I blame me for the place being dead. When I ain't around posting nonsense, nobody cares about the thread 8*D .

I ain't been too active lately due to being busy with other shit (like a game review video I'm finishing up to post later today ) and just haven't been fucked to watch any wrestling for a while. When I get this video done today I might sit back, relax, and watch NO MERCY 2006.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> I blame me for the place being dead. When I ain't around posting nonsense, nobody cares about the thread 8*D .
> 
> I ain't been too active lately due to being busy with other shit (like a game review video I'm finishing up to post later today ) and just haven't been fucked to watch any wrestling for a while. When I get this video done today I might sit back, relax, and watch NO MERCY 2006.



Yea, we need Big Cal to come back to pop the territory again. Scrubs like me just don't know how to draw a decent house


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rick Rude sucks.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I just found this absolutely AWESOME match. It's a British World of Sport contest from 1982 between Dave "Fit" Finlay and Young David aka Davey Boy Smith. Both guys are so young here but they really deliver an incredible match. One of my new favorites. Definitely recommend it to anyone that's looking for something to watch. Feast your eyes on how crisp and fluid all the counters and chain wrestling is, and see how they build to a climactic 8th round finish. 1st round might be my favorite of the whole match though.






link for those that can't see embedded clips : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oIRRY02nL8


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

^ that match

:moyes1


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

There is another match: *Davey Boy Smith vs. Iron Fist Clive Myers (1980?)*. Think Smith is about 16 years old here, the match is fucking great, moves at about 100MPH. Great workrate and matwork. Recommended.

That David/Finlay match is on that Blue Bloods comp you had off me, wasn't it?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Flux said:


> ^ that match
> 
> :moyes1


Couldn't remember if you had seen it or not 



The Fab Four said:


> There is another match: *Davey Boy Smith vs. Iron Fist Clive Myers (1980?)*. Think Smith is about 16 years old here, the match is fucking great, moves at about 100MPH. Great workrate and matwork. Recommended.
> 
> That David/Finlay match is on that Blue Bloods comp you had off me, wasn't it?


Yep! For some reason the first time I watched that comp through I skipped it (fuck knows what I was thinking) but I just got bored and popped Disc 1 in again and my eyes were immediately drawn to it. I watched it and was just completely blown away. Incredible match, very interesting to see Finlay be a somewhat respectful "good guy". I say that in quotes because he was still somewhat the villain in that one, but all the hand shaking and rule obeying was very un-Finlay like. Even so, he was incredible and Davey Boy was excellent too. Davey is weird, he's one of those guys who will never carry a lesser opponent to a great match, but when he gets in there with someone that can go like Bret, Owen, Michaels, or Finlay-he can go hold for hold and work a fantastic match.

Also, Finlay's arm whip might be the slickest looking thing I've seen in a long, long time. He looks like he's tearing Davey's shoulder out of it's socket every time he does it. Just gnarly.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jesus, watching an interview with JJ Dillon on Nitro being asked about the state of the tag division - Its pointless mate and a fucking mess in 1997, is what he should have said lol.

Pointless matches, pointless tag title matches, pointless 'No.1 contender matches'. Pointless. At least there is still more Faces Of Fear. Im just a couple of weeks from Great American Bash '97.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

John Cena: Greatest Rivalries DVD/BD Listing revealed: (For those who care lol)

http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/match-listing-wwe-john-cena-greatest-rivalries-dvd/71735/


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh wow another pointless Cena set yey.

Meanwhile, more talented wrestlers get forgotten .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

After the HBK/Bret one, they have just shoehorned Cena onto it and differed the format accordingly. Bollocks, plus there has been what, 3 Cena sets already?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

5 now, I think.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

:lol Another few to go before he 'retires' then. FFS, there are a million wrestlers they could do sets for, proper fucking legends.

Oh well, fuck 'em. Custom comps FTW.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Smackdown was pretty solid.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That Cena set is one of the worst listings I've ever seen. Holy shit.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone else having issues when playing Dailymotion videos?

EDIT: Actually, it appears to be only some videos own my own channel.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Fab Four said:


> Anyone else having issues when playing Dailymotion videos?
> 
> EDIT: Actually, it appears to be only videos own my own channel.



Nope, I've been gleefully catching up on some amazing ness from NJPW today and it's worked like a charm.

P.s. Everyone who hasn't seen Nakamura vs Ishii G1 2014....I mean....go watch it now. And then watch Nakamura/Okada from the 2014 G1 Climax. I had never seen much Nakamura before last night, but I've watched 6 of his matches in the past 18 hours and I'm a full fledged fan. I love his mannerisms and especially how he can counter fucking ANYTHING into a cross arm breaker. 

I think Cesaro/Zayn finally has a challenger for MotY from me...Nakamura/Ishii just rocked my world.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, seems to be on some of my videos and am getting the 'Some of your videos may be temporarily unavailable. We're doing everything we can to resolve the situation as quickly as possible.' message on my channel.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Solid SD from top to bottom. Ziggler/Cesaro and the 10 man tag are worth checking out.

Also HHH actually did a Teddy Long impersonation, complete with a Holla Holla and entrance music :lmao


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Welp, Nakamura/Ishii lasted, oh I don't know, 25 minutes as my favorite Nakamura match. I just finished Nakamura vs Ibushi 8/4/13 from the G1 Climax. My mind is just completely blow. I might even give this "the full 5". Un-freaking-believable. If C2D is around, you said you were having trouble getting into Japanese wrestling. Watch his match and I don't think you will have that problem anymore. This match might even be the cure for cancer, it's that good. I've never in my life seen a standing "Whisper in the Wind" or a backwards shooting star press. Ibushi is a freak athlete and is tremendous as the nominal baby face, and Nakamura is just awesome doing everything in his power to keep this feisty youngster down. I don't think this would QUITE unseat Punk/Lesnar as my 2013 MOTY, but damn does it ever come close. Easily my #2 now. 

Nakamura vs Ibushi G1 Climax 8/4/13 

Link: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1351wi_kota-ibushi-vs-shinsuke-nakamura-njpw_sport


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

IBUSHI/NAKAMURA :mark: :mark: :mark:

Ibushi deserves the fucking galaxy, you know. Not just for the Nakamura match, but also for everything he's had with (as a Tag) or against Kenny Omega (DEM DDT MATCHES), for the aforementioned Ishii match, for the AWESOME match w/Devitt at WrestleKingdom last year... the guy is incredible. Goddayum. But nothing to take away from Nakamura, because he ruled here and mostly wherever he goes too.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> IBUSHI/NAKAMURA :mark: :mark: :mark:
> 
> Ibushi deserves the fucking galaxy, you know. Not just for the Nakamura match, but also for everything he's had with (as a Tag) or against Kenny Omega (DEM DDT MATCHES), for the aforementioned Ishii match, for the AWESOME match w/Devitt at WrestleKingdom last year... the guy is incredible. Goddayum. But nothing to take away from Nakamura, because he ruled here and mostly wherever he goes too.



Seeing as how I had never seen an Ibushi match before the one I just mentioned, I was getting a similar vibe to the one I got in 1996 the first time I saw Rey Mysterio wrestle. Just seeing moves that you didn't even think were humanly possible let alone seeing some dude pull them off while completely gassed after wrestling for 20 minutes. Ibushi has to be some sort of freak of nature. Has anyone else ever pulled off the 180 shooting star or standing whisper in the wind? I've never ever seen that before.

Plus the fact that he did a 180 Shooting Star....DIRECTLY INTO NAKAMURA'S FUCKING KNEES:mark::mark::mark: Christ almighty that was SICK.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'll bookmark that match for later.

That Cena set sounds like a complete waste and pointless. 90% of it is repeats and the only matches that I liked the inclusion of are the Raw matches with Edge, Orton and HBK (2008).


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

If you haven't seen any Kota Ibushi, I HIGHLY recommend watching his match with Danshoku Dino. It was in a Japanese promotion called DDT. Classic match and one of Ibushi's best performances.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Seeing as how I had never seen an Ibushi match before the one I just mentioned, I was getting a similar vibe to the one I got in 1996 the first time I saw Rey Mysterio wrestle. Just seeing moves that you didn't even think were humanly possible let alone seeing some dude pull them off while completely gassed after wrestling for 20 minutes. Ibushi has to be some sort of freak of nature. Has anyone else ever pulled off the 180 shooting star or standing whisper in the wind? I've never ever seen that before.
> 
> Plus the fact that he did a 180 Shooting Star....DIRECTLY INTO NAKAMURA'S FUCKING KNEES:mark::mark::mark: Christ almighty that was SICK.


The guy is a bumping God. An absolute freak of nature in pure athletisism if wrestling ever saw one. That Shooting Star bump was certainly quite sick. But, for Nakamura's sake, I wouldn't say it was as sick as THAT FUCKING LARIAT. Or that ending stretch part where Nakamura just KILLED the man with knees, and Ibushi had the audacity to kick out at fucking ONE. Heel Nakamura is a fucking natural, but Ibushi was born to be a babyface in pro-wrestling. See as much of him as possible. Recommend you the Danshoku, Devitt and Omega stuff. There's particularly a tag that he had w/Omega against Devitt and iirc Taguchi that I recall ruling the world.

As a matter of fact, you should seek out anything that DDT has to offer. DDT is fucking awesome.

Oh and, as far as I know, there have been standing Shooting Star Presses before. I believe Paul London did them.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cody is going to have a blast reading this.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cody will masturbate to all of this I say 8*D.

Oh and I forgot - also seek out his matches w/Ricochet (which are as good as they sound), Okada, Kushida and of course the greatest dummy of all time YOSHIHIKO. No seriously Chris, YOSHIHIKO is a better wrestler than so many members of the current rosters in the mainstream American companies it's not even funny. He's arguably a better Undertaker than Mark Callaway.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

There's a Ibushi/Ishii match from this year that you should love too, but yeah that Nakamura/Ibushi match is all kinds of awesome.

Not my favorite from G1 though coz there are still better matches in that tournament kada


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> The guy is a bumping God. An absolute freak of nature in pure athletisism if wrestling ever saw one. That Shooting Star bump was certainly quite sick. But, for Nakamura's sake, I wouldn't say it was as sick as THAT FUCKING LARIAT. Or that ending stretch part where Nakamura just KILLED the man with knees, and Ibushi had the audacity to kick out at fucking ONE. Heel Nakamura is a fucking natural, but Ibushi was born to be a babyface in pro-wrestling. See as much of him as possible. Recommend you the Danshoku, Devitt and Omega stuff. There's particularly a tag that he had w/Omega against Devitt and iirc Taguchi that I recall ruling the world.
> 
> As a matter of fact, you should seek out anything that DDT has to offer. DDT is fucking awesome.
> 
> Oh and, as far as I know, there have been standing Shooting Star Presses before. I believe Paul London did them.


Oh I've seen a standing shooting star before too, I just hadn't see a standing "Whisper in the Wind". The move Jeff Hardy and Rey Mysterio used to do running up and jumping backwards off the top rope, Ibushi did just standing in the middle of the ring, like it was nothing. My jaw dropped. Maybe AJ Styles might have done something like that before now that I think of it. I don't know for sure though, all I know is that Ibushi is incredible, Nakamura is incredible, and I just tickled pink that I found 2 new guys to start running through their catalogs.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Chris, hunt down the ROH/NJPW shows and watch Steen vs Nakamura. It isnt a five star MOTYC but by god its one of the most fun matches of the year. The personalitiesclash is as marvellous as it sounds


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Flux said:


> Chris, hunt down the ROH/NJPW shows and watch Steen vs Nakamura. It isnt a five star MOTYC but by god its one of the most fun matches of the year. The personalitiesclash is as marvellous as it sounds


Holy crap! Steen faced Nakamura??!! That only sounds like one of the greatest things I've ever heard of. 

(Searching Google...)

Crap. It's not there. Ugh. I hate when that happens. If anyone has a link to PM me I'll love you for life. Damn ROH making it difficult to find their shit online. I didn't realize free advertising for your product was a bad thing:cuss:

It's kind of nice that I only ever watched WWE/WCW as a kid up until recently, once you discover ROH, PWG, Dragon Gate, NJPW, AJPW etc. it's like finding a whole new amazing world of wrestling. Like Dorthy stepping out the black and white cabin into the bright techna color of Oz.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao I forgot about how terrible the Austin/McMahon build-up to their 1999 match was. Not even this Bella Twin feud is as stupid as that thing. Vince giving up his Rumble victory only for Austin to give up his right to a WM title match. All for no good reason.

What's scary is that the IWC hasn't really embraced wrestling from Europe. Who knows what other great stuff happened there? We know of some WoS, but for all we know, Portugal or Italy has a Terry Funk level talent hiding there.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

One thing's for sure, Sweden has an undiscovered hidden talent right here. :lol

I so wish that I lived in America and wrestling schools were close.

Back to Raw 1998, tension building between Rock and Farooq.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

go on watchwrestling.net and find the whole show and just skup through, Cgris.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

I'm watching Steen vs Nakamura myself at the moment (oh, it starts at around 27:00 in that video, Rabid). Really fun match and Nakamura seems to be an awesome dude. I should really start watching NJPW stuff myself. I remember being a huge fan of Ibushi by just watching some compilations on youtube.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Continuing the NJPW train, I'd love for you guys to watch some matches I think are better or as good as those matches pimped earllier

Suzuki vs AJ Styles (G1) - Suzuki has one of the best performances I have seen all year. AJ is a bit iffy in the selling but this should rock anyone's world. 

Ishii/Honma and Honma/Shibata
are short and to the point G1 matches. Honma is the jobber everyone wants to see pull off the biggest win of his career. Can he do it? You'll be on the edge of your seat, biting your nails and praying he does.

KUSHIDA/Ishii. Forget Ibushi, KUSHIDA is the best juniour in Japan. If you don't particularly enjoy Japanese wrestling or cannot get into it, then this is for you. Well, all of these recommendations are but w/e. KUSHIDA RULES.




funnyfaces1 said:


> What's scary is that the IWC hasn't really embraced wrestling from Europe. Who knows what other great stuff happened there? We know of some WoS, but for all we know, Portugal or Italy has a Terry Funk level talent hiding there.


if we had more Cesca matches, he may just be fitting of that criteria. I know some of you guys got onto his bandwagon the last time Woolcock popped in. 60s French catch has never looked so swell.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

I think I'll start with the whole G1 from this years. Seems to be a solid event for its whole duration.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao I forgot about how terrible the Austin/McMahon build-up to their 1999 match was. Not even this Bella Twin feud is as stupid as that thing. Vince giving up his Rumble victory only for Austin to give up his right to a WM title match. All for no good reason.
> 
> What's scary is that the IWC hasn't really embraced wrestling from Europe. Who knows what other great stuff happened there? We know of some WoS, but for all we know, *Portugal* or Italy has a Terry Funk level talent hiding there.


You may be talking about this fucking badass here:










His name was Tarzan Taborda, he wrestled over 4000 matches and apparently left wrestling undefeated, and is easily Portugal's greatest wrestling export.

Not sure if he's a Terry Funk level talent, but by God, the man is a certified legend in my books. Call me biased all you want but fuck you :side:.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching the 06/09/97 episode of Nitro. Will always love La Parka's outfit. Makes it look all the better when he bumping around for everyone. Just a week to got before Great American Bash.

Page/Savage II is bottling up nicely, Page just put his foot through the window of Savage's limo. Also Piper/Flair teaming up later.

Funny how the ref, me and the announcers try and keep up with these Lucha matches lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lance Archer needs love when it comes to the climax. He was pretty much the most underrated during the entire tournament. Naito & Okada were neck & neck as the standouts _(iirc; but i'm still a bit drunk so let me confirm this as I look over my consensus on the tourny)_. Coincidentally, both had killer match vs Mr. Archer. Yeah, that's right. All comes together.

Def co-sign the KUSH love & Honma vs Shibata. Homna vs Ishii is easily a super great match too, but their match earlier this way was > for my money. Watch both. Can't go wrong. I'm iffy on Suzuki vs Styles myself, but not doubt MiSu was on point. Have to give him credit. As Rah said, Styles, & his faction in general, went a direction I wasn't enamored w/.

MOTT for me: Tetsuya Naito vs AJ Styles. Styles the great heel & Naito the ever blissful babyface. w/an unplanned assist from Toru Yano the night before it became a hell of a story. If there was anything that got me nearly as excited as Shield vs Wyatts I this year, it was THIS.

I'll probably revisit this post in here w/a list of every match I liked/loved and let that be a reference for some. b/c I could go on w/what I say should be watched.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well, just threw away about 200 wrestling dvds. A bunch of ECW shows, bad copies of every SummerSlam and Survivor Series (all stuff I got in big trades, mainly just to make up the numbers), and a handful of 2 disc versions of PPV's I got off Platt a few years back so I could have full DVD quality on certain matches for the Best of WWF/E comp I did based on that list a bunch of us made. All these discs were taking up space and I just don't need em .

Also, anyone in the UK wanna buy a 1:1 DVD Duplicator?  No use for mine since I stopped selling discs.

Oh hey, update on my non wrestling blog . Video review of Rugrats: Search for Reptar on the PS1 .

Didn't get around to watching No Mercy 06 last night. Not sure if I'll be arsed today either, but I wanna get the remaining 06 shows done by next week.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh my shit. I just rewatched the 2009 clash between Kota "BumpGod" Ibushi and the GOAT himself YOSHIHIKO. And it's as beautiful as the first time I saw it. YOSHIHIKO is so great that he can make a simple HEADLOCK get a massive reaction. And pretty much EVERYTHING he did in this match, from the selling, to the rallying the crowd up, to his INCREDIBLY smooth execution of moves. Jerry Lawler and Terry Funk combined's Spike Piledrivers have nothing on YOSHIHIKO's btw. And neither does Hulk Hogan in terms of being Hulk Hogan. And he has the fucking greatest finisher of all time (Infinity Destroyer ftfw). Kota was good too (8*D), but YOSHIHIKO GODDAMMIT.

I'll admit that the match may not be for everyone because there is some repetitivity in the leg work, to me that was no issue at all. If I were to give this one the old STARZ, I'd probably go for ****1/2. Not even trolling. That was just INFUCKINGCREDIBLE. Go watch it and become a YOSHIHIKO fan NOW.

Here's the match for the interested:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Couple of crowd signs from the Nitro i just finished: 


















Upped this: Giving DM a rest for now, may just switch back to uploading to filehosts TBH. 

*Finlay vs Matt Hardy (Smackdown 06.22.2007)*

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wwe-m...ardy-smackdown-06-22-2007-a.html#post39299945


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

ATF what is Kenny Omega doing these days? I remember loving his stuff in PWG but haven't heard much about him in a while.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Haven't posted in this thread in ages, but just wanted to put over a super fun Bret & Davey vs. Owen & Backlund tag match from Action Zone. 

Also found a stellar Owen vs. Bret house show match from the Garden.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The forgotten Bret/Owen everyone should talk about is the No Holds Barred one from 1995.



SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> ATF what is Kenny Omega doing these days? I remember loving his stuff in PWG but haven't heard much about him in a while.


He's wandering about in Japan, fortunely AND unfortunely I guess. He did compete in the Best of Super Juniors Tournament and lost to Ishikari in his last match iirc.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

-Mystery- said:


> Haven't posted in this thread in ages, but just wanted to put over a super fun Bret & Davey vs. Owen & Backlund tag match from Action Zone.
> 
> Also found a stellar Owen vs. Bret house show match from the Garden.


Sounds like they are my DM uploads lol. I may cease with that soon though.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

The Fab Four said:


> Sounds like they are my DM uploads lol. I may cease with that soon though.


You're zep81?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

-Mystery- said:


> You're zep81?


Yup.  Glad you liked them, two cracking matches.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So yeah. After rewatching some YOSHIHIKO (more precisely the tag w/Danshoku vs Golden Lovers in 09), I decided to return to the old CARD MAKING~!

I did now perfect cards for all generations in the WWE's history, without restrictions (TV, PPV, VHS, house show, whatever), and these where what I came up with:


Spoiler: Golden Era (1980-1992)



Pre-show match
The Undertaker vs. Razor Ramon
US Rampage 1992

The Rockers vs. The Orient Express
Royal Rumble 1991

Women's Championship match
The Fabulous Moolah (c) vs. Wendi Richter
The Brawl To End It All 1984

WWF Tag Team Championship 2 out of 3 Falls match
Demolition (c) vs. The Brain Busters
Saturday Night's Main Event 7/29/1989

Intercontinental Championship match
Mr. Perfect (c) vs. Bret Hart
SummerSlam 1991

Survivor Series Traditional Elimination match
Team Hogan (Hogan, Orndorff, Patera, Bigelow & Muraco) vs. Team Andre (Andre, Rude, Bundy, Reed & OMG)
Survivor Series 1987

Boot Camp match
The Iron Sheik vs. Sgt. Slaughter
Madison Square Garden 6/16/1984

WWF Championship match
Bob Backlund (c) vs. Stan Hansen
Madison Square Garden 3/6/1981

Retirement match
Randy Savage vs. The Ultimate Warrior
WrestleMania 7





Spoiler: New Generation Era (1993-1996)



Pre-show match
Lex Luger vs. Crush
Raw 4/29/1993

Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart
WrestleMania 10

Women's Championship match
Alundra Blayze (c) vs. Bull Nakano
Raw 8/1/1994

Intercontinental Championship match
Diesel (c) vs. Razor Ramon
SummerSlam 1994

WWF Tag Team Championship match
The Steiner Brothers (c) vs. The Heavenly Bodies
SummerSlam 1993

Caribbean Strap match
Steve Austin vs. Savio Vega
In Your House 8: Beware Of Dog

2 out of 3 Falls match
Doink The Clown vs. Marty Jannetty
Raw 6/14/1993

Loser Leaves Town match
Ric Flair vs. Mr. Perfect
Raw 1/25/1993

WWF Championship match
Shawn Michaels (c) vs. Mankind
In Your House 10: Mind Games





Spoiler: Attitude Era (1997-2001)



Pre-show match
Hardcore Championship match
Raven (c) vs. Kane vs. The Big Show
WrestleMania 17

European Championship match
Owen Hart vs. The British Bulldog
Raw 3/3/1997

Light Heavyweight Championship match
The Great Sasuke (c) vs. TAKA Michinoku
In Your House 16: Canadian Stampede

WCW Championship match
The Rock (c) vs. Chris Jericho
No Mercy 2001

30-Minute Ultimate Submission match
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit
Backlash 2001

WWF Tag Team Championship Triangle Ladder match
The Dudley Boyz (c) vs. Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys
WrestleMania 16

Hell In A Cell match
The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels
In Your House 18: Badd Blood

WWF Championship Street Fight
Triple H (c) vs. Cactus Jack
Royal Rumble 2000

No Disqualification match with Ken Shamrock as special guest referee
Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart
WrestleMania 13





Spoiler: Ruthless Aggression Era (2002-2007)



Pre-show match
Women's Championship match
Trish Stratus (c) vs. Mickie James
WrestleMania 22

WWE Tag Team Championship Fatal 4-Way Ladder match
Londrick (c) vs. The Hardys vs. MNM vs. William Regal & Dave Taylor
Armageddon 2006

Chris Benoit vs. Finlay
Judgment Day 2006

Intercontinental Championship Hardcore match
Randy Orton (c) vs. Cactus Jack
Backlash 2004

John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels
Raw 4/23/2007

WWE Championship match
Kurt Angle (c) vs. The Undertaker
Smackdown 9/4/2003

Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio
Smackdown 6/23/2005

Steve Austin vs. The Rock
WrestleMania 19

World Heavyweight Championship Hell In A Cell match
Batista (c) vs. Triple H
Vengeance 2005





Spoiler: PG Era (2008-present)



Pre-show match
Divas Championship match
Kaitlyn (c) vs. AJ Lee
Payback 2013

Nº1 Contender's match
Triple H vs. Daniel Bryan
WrestleMania 30

ECW Championship match
Jack Swagger (c) vs. Christian
ECW 2/24/2009

Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn
NXT Arrival 2014

The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family
Elimination Chamber 2014

Intercontinental Championship vs. Mask match
Chris Jericho (c) vs. Rey Mysterio
The Bash 2009

World Heavyweight Championship match
Dolph Ziggler (c) vs. Alberto Del Rio
Payback 2013

The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels
WrestleMania 25

WWE Championship match
John Cena (c) vs. CM Punk
Money In The Bank 2011


Comment on the best one(s)


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

The Fab Four said:


> Yup.  Glad you liked them, two cracking matches.


Holy shit. There's so much shit I need to watch that caught my eye, mostly house show stuff. 

Great work.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Surprised you didn't go with a Laycool tag or a McCool singles. I'm sure I remember those being some fun times, at the bare minimum. On a relative scale, my memory wants to make the claim that Michelle was a rather decent talent at one point and Layla tried hard to tag along. Then again, that memory also remembers the stupid angle they had with Nattie, though, and the terrible tables match they had with The Divas of Doom. So, yeah, I dunno.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Okay, here's a challenge that I, in my match-making world, dared myself to do, and now I dare all of you to do: a WWE Championship Gauntlet challenge. Basically, take 8 WWE Title matches from all time and use them to fill a card.

However, it's not nearly as simple as it looks:
*- Every match must be singles and no gimmick attached to it (exceptions open to Special Guest Ref matches if those matches don't have another gimmick in it);

- Whoever wins a match MUST compete in the one immediately following as the reigning champion in it (including winning by DQ, unless said guy who won by DQ never actually held the WWE Title before, for which the title would be vacated) - e.g. Y beats X to win the title, then Y defends against W in the next match;

- If any match ends in a double DQ/countout, the title is vacated and you make the next champion w/a Battle Royal or Royal Rumble or something like that (that actually happened, don't invent anything);

- A wrestler can compete for a maximum 3 times (if he lost a match, he can't further wrestle, unless he's inserted in the aforementioned Battle Royal/Royal Rumble/whatever, which is an exception that also applies to anyone who had by then wrestled 3 times too);

- The current champion (in this case Lesnar) MUST compete first.
*
Are you up to the challenge? Here's my card:



> Pre-show match
> Women's Championship match
> Trish Stratus (c) vs. Mickie James
> WrestleMania 22
> ...


Oh yeah, I added a pre-show because LOL :lol


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

WWE Championship Match
Brock Lesnar(C) V The Undertaker
No Mercy 2002

WWE Championship Match
Brock Lesnar V Eddie Guerrero 
No Way Out 2004

WWE Championship Match
Eddie Guerrero V Rey Mysterio
Smackdown 16/3/04

WWE Championship Match
Eddie Guerrero V JBL
Great American Bash 2004

WWE Championship Match
JBL V John Cena
Wrestlemania 21
(Dont like this but at least 1 sacrifice had to be made)

WWE Championship Match
John Cena V CM Punk
Money In The Bank 2011

WWE Championship Match
CM Punk V Daniel Bryan
Over The Limit 2012

WWE Championship Match
CM Punk V Chris Jericho
Wrestlemania 28


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Eddie/JBL GAB and Brock/Taker NM are both gimmick matches. Gimmick matches, if you read the rules, are NOT allowed. Do NOT break the rules, you pesky rebellious delinquent :side:

You can replace them, however, w/Brock/Benoit from SD 2003 and Eddie/JBL JD respectively (JBL wins the JD match by DQ, and in a Gauntlet, DQ win means you move on to the next match)


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Yeah lets go with that. :lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Goddammit, now I realize it was a stupid move to tell you that :side:

I actually also tried this challenge with the WHC, but then I realized that the last champion (Cena), never actually lost the WHC in a one-on-one match (unless you count the WWE WHC) :lol


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Road to Wrestlemania is officially over for me and next up is Wrestlemania XIV. 

The Kane vs Undertaker build has been good but seeing what a joke Kane is nowadays, I just didn't get into it all that much. That last segment with him setting things on fire with his hand was just humorous. This can only work for me if I was about 10 years younger and hadn't witnessed Kane's career after his first unmasking. But for its time, I can definitely see why he would be "scary" because the mystic is still there. He hasn't said a word and I've barely come across any segments where he didn't have the upper-hand.

Rock and Austin also gave a small sample of what would be in store with the greatest rivalry ever on the go-home show. Shocking how little protection Rock gets booking wise.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Brock Lesnar vs Eddie Guerrero - No Way Out '04

Eddie Guerrero vs JBL - Judgment Day '04

JBL vs John Cena - Wrestlemania 21 (gotta let the crowd rest :side

John Cena vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania 23

John Cena vs CM Punk - MITB '11

CM Punk vs Mark Henry - Raw 4/2/12

Royal Rumble 2002 (Triple H) - RR '02

Triple H vs Jeff Hardy - No Mercy 2002

I believe this should work.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Rumble should have the Title on the line as well. Though I guess you can SORTA get away with it. Sorta :side:.

Anyways, let's all discuss WWE's "brilliant idea" of Brock's next opponent for the title according to THE DIRTSHEETZ~!:


Spoiler: Brock vs. this guy at HIAC



The Big Show.


 Can you say buzzkill?


----------



## Dreamcast99 (Sep 4, 2014)

Brock Lesner (c) vs The Undertaker
Unforgiven 2002

Royal Rumble Match 1992
Royal Rumble 1992

Ric Flair (c) vs. Hulk Hogan
WWF Superstars of Wrestling taping 2/17/1992

Hulk Hogan (c) vs. The Undertaker
Backlash 2002

The Undertaker (c) vs. Stone Cold
RAW: 7/28/1999

Stone Cold (c) vs Kurt Angle
Unforgiven 2001

Kurt Angle (c) vs. Triple H
Royal Rumble 2001

Kurt Angle (c) vs. Chris Benoit
Royal Rumble 2002


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Can they put the Raw after Owen and Eddie died on the network......please?!



funnyfaces1 said:


> Rick Rude sucks.


As a poster I love you. You are one of my favorites. But this is incorrect. He's a GOAT heel. Top 10...maybe top 5. 



The Fab Four said:


> Bollocks





DoubtGin said:


> Smackdown was pretty solid.


I was there, baby. Good times. Had way more fun than I thought I would with no :bryan3 

I hope Pinnacle gets a RAW sometime the next few months. Back when I was a kid Lincoln got house shows like 3 times a year. 



Flux said:


> go on watchwrestling.net and find the whole show and just skup through, Cgris.


Ummmm what is this website? :dance



The Fab Four said:


> Couple of crowd signs from the Nitro i just finished:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The signs in the crowd during that era were great.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

ATF said:


> The Rumble should have the Title on the line as well. Though I guess you can SORTA get away with it. Sorta :side:.
> 
> Anyways, let's all discuss WWE's "brilliant idea" of Brock's next opponent for the title according to THE DIRTSHEETZ~!:
> 
> ...


Oh shit, read that wrong. :lmao Thought the way to get out of the DQ/countout/draw thing was to just pretend that the RR had the title on the line. ~___~

Time to go find a battle royal that Triple H or Jeff wins for the title. :side:


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

ATF said:


> The Rumble should have the Title on the line as well. Though I guess you can SORTA get away with it. Sorta :side:.
> 
> Anyways, let's all discuss WWE's "brilliant idea" of Brock's next opponent for the title according to THE DIRTSHEETZ~!:
> 
> ...


They have to be fucking stupid. It's so simple to book between now and WM if they have Lesnar compete at every PPV.

Night of Champions: John Cena.
Hell in a Cell: John Cena OR Randy Orton.
Survivor Series: Randy Orton OR Dean Ambrose.
TLC: Randy Orton OR Sheamus.
Rumble: Sheamus OR Henry.
Chamber: Batista.
Wrestlemania: Reigns OR Bryan.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cannot fucking believe what I'm reading regarding HIAC. I just hope Brock can work SS or TLC so we can have a fresh matchup. Fucking Sheamus or Orton.

Any fucking body.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Brock vs Show is not only boring but not surprising. Zero fucks will be given. 

I'd love to see Cesaro turn face and go up against Brock but I doubt that happens.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

There was a divas match in 2010 I liked, let me find the writey...........


Here it is - 



> Michelle McCool v. Beth Phoenix
> OK so there was a spot where McCool grabbed the iron and the cord didn’t reach where she wanted it to, and a bucket being used a weapon is stupid and clearly not as effectively as a fist (at least Beth threw it), but honestly I flat out LIKED this. Like, ‘liked’ it. Like, I would honestly be totally fine with watching again. Most of it is based around offense with an ironing board and I thought it was pretty cool; just a bunch of whacks, throws, and a really cool double STOMP with the board. McCool is eventually sent off of the apron (somehow, IDR) and probably hits her head on that fucking table o’ stuff they have on the outside (camera doesn’t catch it and the commentators say she did but for her sake I hope they were exaggerating). Beth rolls her over the table after McCool accidentally uses hairspray against Layla and Vickie (using on Beth to get control of the match earlier, which I liked). Both women get on the second turnbuckle and Vickie starts hitting Beth’s leg hilariously with the sweeper part of a broom, and that comedy turns into disgust when Beth takes a pretty hideous tumble onto the ironing board. I don’t think anybody there realised how much that may have actually hurt. There are like, metal bars and everything. This just did a nice job of powerful hero v. bitchy skinnier bitch. I never even considered considering this for the list and I have no idea if anything I just wrote came off as anything that anybody would want to see, but I just found it fun. I’m almost inclined to say this was a legitimately better match than Edge/Jericho at WrestleMania. Eat shit. NOT ADDING.



From Extreme Rules. I'm annoyed at the last line. "Almost inclined"??? Looking back I'd say it's easily better than Edge/Jericho based on the fact it isn't a pile of smoking pigshit.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Attitude Era: Volume 2 DVD/BD Line-Up:

http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/match-listing-wwe-attitude-era-vol-2-dvd/72118/


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh wow another set based on the AE and it sucks balls. I AM SHOCKED 8*D.

To hell with the AE. No Way Out 2004, that's where it's at!!! And hey, it's this week's Ramble on my BLOG~! 

And in 1998, during the time of the AE, I was doing far more fun things like playing RUGRATS: SEARCH FOR REPTAR on the PS1. Oh hey, I seem to have made a video reviewing it on my OTHER BLOG~! 

Hoping to have NO MERCY 2006 posted today . Started watching it, then got busy helping my parents move a bunch of heavy shit.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cal and his shameless advertisement 8*D

NO MERCY 06 THO :trips5


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shameless my arse! I ain't ashamed of it!!! 

Just wait until I start up a patreon account 8*D.

Before I get to it, how about some thoughts/STARS~! for Rey/Chabo? Is it worth my time watching unlike so many of their other matches?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yes it totally is. It's no GAB 2004, maybe about on par w/NWO 2004, but it's very fun and very HATE~ish. It's kinda spotty but they get their point across well . I'd throw it ***.

Don't skip the MVP squash if you haven't btw. It's a DUD, but at the same time it's actually kinda harmless and it wouldn't hurt to watch once .

EDIT: Also, don't skip the Miz birthday segment if you haven't. Because LAYLA. Just pretend like the big fat doofus part never existed.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> Oh wow another set based on the AE and it sucks balls. I AM SHOCKED 8*D.
> 
> To hell with the AE. No Way Out 2004, that's where it's at!!! And hey, it's this week's Ramble on my BLOG~!
> 
> ...


I don't think there will ever be a time I'm not up for watching Brock vs Eddie at NWO 2004. Such an emotional roller coaster. Psychology wise, it's pretty much the perfect match. By that I mean all of the offense from Brock and Eddie makes perfect sense in the context of what they were trying to do, the selling is all top notch, and the pacing/comebacks are all superbly timed. Only thing that keeps me from giving it the full 5 is that lull at about the 20-25 minute mark when Brock wraps Eddie up and they just lay on the mat for about 3 minutes catching their breath. Other than that you'd be hard pressed to find a single thing wrong with it. I have it as the 3rd best Eddie match from his time in WWE.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah I probably would have thrown ***** if it didn't slow down at that point. Everything else is tremendous and I never fail to get a huge grin as I watch Eddie win the title . Such an incredible moment, made even more special after he passed away.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I actually minded the Goldberg interference more than I did the rest hold, because on a storytelling perspective, Brock keeping Eddie down without breath for as much as possible would've been the most valuable asset he could've possibly achieved. Sure, Goldberg Spearing Brock made perfect sense too, but I would've preferred to see Eddie win the title all by himself. But I do admit I was bored by the resthold whereas Goldberg Spearing Brock was pretty exciting. Two sides of a hamburger with both a good and a bad side it seems 

Despite those flaws, I still think it's damn near perfect match, probably Brock's GOAT performance and a top 5 Eddie performance too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:mark: Undertaker/Kennedy time :mark:.

Should have finished this PPV hours ago but I keep getting shouted to help move something or take the dogs for a walk or to be asked "where would you have been if we didn't shout you?". No wonder I'm insane, I had no chance with my parents :side:.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Weird request time. 

If anyone is watching Nitro's from '96, if they spot someone getting hit with trash from the crowd, lemme know. I just wish to put a video together lol. Ive watched through until June '97 atm, but just trying to back and remember some incidents.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

ATF said:


> The Rumble should have the Title on the line as well. Though I guess you can SORTA get away with it. Sorta :side:.
> 
> Anyways, let's all discuss WWE's "brilliant idea" of Brock's next opponent for the title according to THE DIRTSHEETZ~!:
> 
> ...



That's a buzzkill!


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The Fab Four said:


> Attitude Era: Volume 2 DVD/BD Line-Up:
> 
> http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/match-listing-wwe-attitude-era-vol-2-dvd/72118/



I don't remember wen :hbk2 December 29, 1997 was that any good? Also can't recall Austin/Rock lumberjack or Austin v Shamrock. Are these good? 

Nice to see :jpl :jericho LMS finally make a set. Love that match. I'd be buying this if I didn't have the network.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> I actually minded the Goldberg interference more than I did the rest hold, because on a storytelling perspective, Brock keeping Eddie down without breath for as much as possible would've been the most valuable asset he could've possibly achieved. Sure, Goldberg Spearing Brock made perfect sense too, but I would've preferred to see Eddie win the title all by himself. But I do admit I was bored by the resthold whereas Goldberg Spearing Brock was pretty exciting. Two sides of a hamburger with both a good and a bad side it seems
> 
> Despite those flaws, I still think it's damn near perfect match, probably Brock's GOAT performance and a top 5 Eddie performance too.


Meh, if Goldberg speared Brock and then Eddie just pinned him, yea I would have minded it. But Brock kicked out after that, and Eddies "DDT on the belt" was only possible because Brock brought the title in the ring in the first place. I thought it all fit Eddie's character, he was the guy who would win by any means necessary, Lying, Cheating, and Stealing were his way of life, and people loved him because he didn't try and hide it, he brought the crowd in on his antics.

Come to think of it, is Brock/Goldberg the only bad Brock Lesnar match? Zep might know for sure as he has watched every Brock match, but I can't think of a single Brock match I would give less than ** other than that steaming pile of dung at WM 20. Even the 3 lackluster Triple H matches got atleast **1/2 from me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brock match under **? Erm, no apart from Goldberg, can't honestly think of one tbh.

Even the fun squashes are mostly great, and the short Big Show matches. There maybe a couple of SD matches that get **. Watching the 'Brock catalog' you get such an appreciation of how good he is.

Maybe the Hardcore Holly RR match.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

The Taker match at 'Mania this year was bad IMO, I literally fell asleep during it.

I dont put any blame on either man though because of Taker's injury.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Meh, if Goldberg speared Brock and then Eddie just pinned him, yea I would have minded it. But Brock kicked out after that, and Eddies "DDT on the belt" was only possible because Brock brought the title in the ring in the first place. I thought it all fit Eddie's character, he was the guy who would win by any means necessary, Lying, Cheating, and Stealing were his way of life, and people loved him because he didn't try and hide it, he brought the crowd in on his antics.
> 
> Come to think of it, is Brock/Goldberg the only bad Brock Lesnar match? Zep might know for sure as he has watched every Brock match, but I can't think of a single Brock match I would give less than ** other than that steaming pile of dung at WM 20. Even the 3 lackluster Triple H matches got atleast **1/2 from me.


Nope. Don't forget the Hardcore Holly RR '04 suckfest. And even if the whole segment was entertaining, I wouldn't give Brock/Show this year more than about *.

I would give the Taker match this year ** because of its compelling if somewhat accidental storytelling. But BOY OH BOY was the action so not exciting at all. Can't really blame them giving the circumstances, but it's a match I don't ever wanna watch again. Except for the ending. And not because I liked the ending, but it's because it's one of those History-making moments I'll be proud to say "I saw that as it happened".


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't mind Eddie winning unclean. Underdogs rarely beat monsters clean and on this occasion, I think it added to the story that Eddie "cheated" since it was his trademark. While I'm here, I'll point out that it's as if early death was his destiny and it all came together at the right time. He redeemed himself in storyline by once again becoming a fan favorite and his last match involved him winning with his trademark gimmick. Had he died as a heel, it would have caused confusion among the younger audience since he was playing the character of a complete scumbag. But with his diversity, he was able to win over the whole crowd. Can't help but picture that kid in the crowd who was crying during the Raw tribute.  

Dammit, why couldn't have Benoit suffered a fatal heart attack on his way home after he wrestled Elijah Burke? :sad: He could have saved that Attitude Era set in terms of match quality.

Totally looking forward to the NO MERCY 2006 ramble now. :mark: And CAL, if you ever have the time available, I have another 2004 request: Orton vs Batista from 8 November.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

He had a bad match against Billy Gunn in 2004 IIRC. I think there were a few other matches that weren't that good, but nothing abominable. I didn't like the Backlash match with Cena at all or the Undertaker No Mercy 2003 match, so those would count in the ** or less category for me.

You guys have also reminded me of a hidden gem from Smackdown in 2003: Shannon Moore & Hardcore Holly vs. Matt Morgan & A-Train. Heel team was scary. Heyman cut a GOAT promo beforehand. Holly's hot tag ruled. Unpopular opinion, but I liked the Hardcore Holly vs. Brock Lesnar feud.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> I have another 2004 request: Orton vs Batista from 8 November.


If Cal can't, ill try and sort it out. Will be a DL rather than DM though. 

Going to watch the second half of WCW GAB 1997 in abit. Page/Savage II and Piper/Flair teaming up lol.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

What did you think of Meng/Benoit from that show? I thought it was pretty good, but easily the weakest of their trilogy. Meng no-sold too much and his offense got kinda boring. I loved Benoit's constant efforts to get the crossface on Meng. And the double-stretcher job was cool.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Not watched it yet. Only seen up until Madusa/Hokuto. Really enjoyed their first match though.

Plus they had one at the NWO Takeover PPV, which I havn't got to yet.

I'm just not looking forward to yet another Benoit/Sullivan match, which all this is leading to. Hope to fuck it ends there. I just can't stand Sullivan most of the time and his 'double stomp'.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

*Hell in a Cell 2009​*
Figured I'd give this one a re-watch, as I don't recall caring much for it when I saw it live all those years ago. Card has some potentially good stuff on it. Punk/Taker in the Cell and Ziggler/Morrison for the IC Title catch my attention. This was when the legitimacy of the Hell in a Cell match really started to take a nosedive, with WWE totally delivering on the overkill. 3 matches inside the cell on one show is just ridiculous and takes away from the spectacle that is (was) Hell in a Cell. Anyway, lets get started.

*World Heavyweight Championship
Hell in a Cell Match
The Undertaker vs. CM Punk (C)*

Pretty weird to see Taker opening up a show this late in his career. Taker roughs up Punk to start. Tossing him outside and slamming him up against the cell. Smart spot from Punk, playing the coward heel by scampering away under the ring, only to emerge on the other side, before dropkicking the steel steps into the knees of The Deadman. Punk with his running high knee to Taker while he was propped up against the steel ring post on the apron. Punk looks for the running bulldog onto the floor I guess, but gets flung off into the cell. Taker with his *VINTAGE* apron leg drop. Punk fights back with a suicide dive knocking Taker back into the mesh of the cell. Punk with long jet black hair seems so long ago now. The trade blows back in the ring with Taker getting the upper hand. Snake eyes attempt from UT,Punk escapes but eats a big boot though. Big leg drop from Taker gets 2. Punk with kicks and then a GTS attempt, reversal into Tombstone, Punk gets out and kicks Taker in the back of the leg. Cookie Monster waffles UT with a chair shot TO THE SKULL! That's not PG. High knee from Punk, Taker catches him, LAST RIDE! Near fall! Punk survived. Punk pulls Taker off the top rope and hits him with a modified GTS. Two count. Punk eats some chair after getting a big boot. Chokeslam from Taker. Tombstone Piledriver gets Taker the 3 count and the title at about 10 minutes. 

*Thoughts:* Pretty short for a World Title match. I think this made Punk look like a paper champion. Which I guess he was. I remember hearing some rumor about Taker not liking the fact that Punk didn't properly dress/carry himself like a champion. Which led to Punk dropping the belt not so long after. No wonder Punk was disgruntled for so long. Anyway, nothing really outstanding about this one. Perhaps one could even call it disappointing. ***3/4*

*Intercontinental Championship Match
Dolph Ziggler vs. John Morrison (C)*

Ziggler was really tearing it up in mid to late 2009, having great matches with Rey Mysterio over the IC title belt. Morrison had a classic with Rey to win the belt, which led to this match. Dolph has always been great in the ring. JoMo had his unique parkour style which always made for some unique offense. Dolph wearing some leopard printed trunks with hot pink DZ logo. Ballsy. Collar and elbow tie up to start. Back heel trip from Morrison into a waist lock. Ziggler counters into a pinning combo. Just 1. Another pin gets Ziggler a 1 count. More chain wrestling between these 2. Dolph trying to use his amateur background to his advantage here. Crowd is awfully quiet for this one. Side headlock takeover from Zigs. Shoulder block from Ziggler before he runs into a dropkick from Morrison. JoMo with some silly looking leg drop to Dolph. Ziggler regains the advantage and applies a headlock. Morrison eventually picks up the pace and hits a springboard cross body block. Starship Pain attempt from JoMo, but he eats canvas as Dolph gets out of the way. Big jumping elbow drop from Zigs. Textbook standing dropkick from Ziggler gets a two count. Big powerslam from Dolphin gets another near fall. Flipping snapmare with Morrison in the seated position gets another 2 count. Stinger splash in the corner from the artist formerly known as Nicky. Dolph with a succession of fireman's carry takedowns. Morrison wakes up the fans with a sweet looking DDT counter. They trade right hands. Jumping heel kick from JoMo followed by a standing shooting star gets him a near fall. Ziggler with a roll up tries to use the ropes for leverage. Morrison with a roll up of his own for 2. Sunset flip from Dolph followed by a jawbreaker type maneuver gets yet another 2 count. Dolph winds up getting catapulted into the top turnbuckle. Morrison misses a springboard kick and gets caught in a beautiful bridging German suplex from Ziggler for a close near fall. Fans are behind Ziggler now. Fame-Asser gets Ziggler his millionth near fall of the match. Ziggler eats a boot from the champion but counters the Starship Pain and drops Morrison on his face. Morrison blocks the Zig Zag and drives his knee right into the face of Ziggler. Starship Pain finally connects and Morrison is able to retain after 15 minutes.

*Thoughts:* Pretty basic stuff to start in this one with Ziggler trying to show his superiority in amateur wrestling ability. Fans were sitting on their hands for most of it. Things picked up about halfway through though. Good offense by Ziggler really helped this one. Solid match overall, but I feel as though these two would go on to have better matches with a better flow to them than this one. Survivor Series 2011 comes to mind. Still, everything was crisp and the effort was there. ****1/4*

*Divas Championship Match
Alicia Fox vs. Mickie James (C)*

Hard to believe Alicia Fox was relevant at one point. Mickie James gets a pretty decent pop for a Diva. 
I think this was a bit before the whole "Piggy James" debacle. They toss each other around a bit. Mickie with the first 1 count of the match. Irish whip into a monkey flip by James. snap mare from Mickie and she dropkicks Fox straight in the face. Mickie ducks a clothesline and delivers a neckbreaker. James up top but she gets yanked off by her leg and hits the mat hard. A little hair pulling from Alicia. Pretty neat tilt-a-whirl backbreaker by Fox gets a 2 count. Body scissors locked in now by Fox. Mickie battles back with a series of clotheslines. Mickie with a hurricanrana out of the corner. Thesz press off the top by MJ. Fox countes Mickie's DDT with a really nice Northern Lights suplex for a two count. Fox misses the Scissor Kick and gets absolutely destroyed with a botched DDT that looks like it could have broken her neck. Piggy James strikes again. :cool2

*Thoughts: *Short, sweet and to the point. They didn't waste time and there were actually some nice wrestling moves here. Fox was surprisingly good and she took that DDT like a champ. **1/4*

*Unified Tag Team Championship Match
Batista and Rey Mysterio vs. JeriShow (C)*

Jericho and Rey to start things out here. Rey with an arm drag on Y2J followed by an inverted monkey flip. A springboard gets Rey a 2 count early. Batista in and he takes down Jericho with a shoulder block. Big clothesline in the corner as big Dave beats down Jericho. Repeated shoulder blocks in the corner and Rey Rey back in as he dropkicks Y2J right in the face. Jericho tries to get some separation but he continues to get isolated by the faces. Rey uses Batista as a step ladder and splashes Jericho. Y2J finally scurries away and makes the tag to The Giant. Rey wants to try and prove something like an idiot and decides to take on Show. Big Show lifts Rey up by his head and tosses him down. Big Show begins the decimation of little Rey Rey. Big chop from Show sends Rey literally over the top rope and to the floor. Show palms Rey's head and lifts him back in the ring before kicking him in the face. Y2J back in now like a buzzard to clean up the carcass of Mysterio. Fans try and get behind Rey as best they can and he is able to connect with an enziguri. He goes for a 619 but gets blasted in the face by Jericho. Mysterio comes off the top rope with a seated senton. Batista gets the tag and cleans house. Spinning sidewalk slam from DAVE gets a 2 count. Batista catches Jericho with a spear. Spinebuster on Y2J gets a close near fall. Big Show grabs the leg of Batista, allowing Jericho to sneak up with the Codebreaker. Another 2 count. Big Show in now and he Chokeslams Batista but Rey breaks up the pin attempt. Jericho misses a Lionsault and Batista tags in Rey. Low dropkick from Mysterio to Show. Big Show hits the buckle. Huge springboard DDT from Rey. 2 count. Big Show gets low bridged to the outside. 619 connects to Big Show on the outside. Jericho gets launched to the outside but is caught by his partner, until Batista spears both of them to the floor! Back inside, Rey goes to the well one too many times and springboards into a huge knockout punch from Show. JeriShow retain.

*Thoughts:* Pretty formulaic tag team match but it really worked here. These are 4 veterans that know how to structure a match and it showed here. Rey always brings the uptempo offense and it really adds to the match. Each guy had their moment to shine and the finish worked well. Good match. ****1/2*

*WWE Championship
Hell in a Cell Match
Randy Orton vs. John Cena (C)*

Throughout the years of the Cena/Orton feud, the matches they have had all seem to blend together somewhat. There are only a select few that I would go out of my way to watch again. Summerslam 2007 and their "I Quit" Match from Breaking Point the month before this match were 2 of their best. I have seen people rave about their No Way Out 2008 match as well. Orton plays a game of catch me if you can to start. He catches Cena coming back in and beats down on him. Orton reigning down with right hands. Cena goes for a quick AA but Orton gets away and connects with a powerslam. Dueling chants of "Lets go Cena!" and "Lets go Orton!" Cena hits his one handed bulldog but Orton avoids the Cena shoulder block. Cena gets blasted into the steel cell wall. Orton uses his knee to drive the face of Cena into the cell. Cena picks up Orton and drives him back first into the cell twice. He tries to sling him face first into the cell but Orton counters and Cena eats steel. He then meets the steel steps shoulder first. Orton places Cena's head on the steel steps and just stomps down on it. Orton then launches the steel steps into the ring. Cena attempts to get back in and Orton goes for the hanging DDT onto the steps. Cena blocks and tosses Randy to the floor. Orton looks strange totally bald with no beard. Like some kind of alien. Cena tries to murder Orton by tossing the steel steps outside right at his head but luckily for Orton he gets out of the way. Back inside, Orton delivers his inverted backbreaker and gets a near fall. Shoulder blocks from Cena, spinning side slam. 5 Knuckle shuffle. Typical Cena comeback. Orton avoids the AA by hanging Cena up across the top rope. Orton slithers back in quickly and drives Cena's face into the canvas with the hanging DDT from the second rope. That only gets Orton a two count. Orton sets up for the RKO. Cena counters and hits the AA. One...two...no! Near fall only. Cena sets Orton up on the top turnbuckle, trying to bring him off with another AA. Orton fights out with some elbows and then brings Cena down with an electric chair drop! Close two count for Orton. Cena on the apron and Orton decks him with some rights. Orton looking to take Cena down with a superplex. Cena fights it off and shoves Orton to the mat. Cena misses his big top rope leg drop. Orton retrieves a steel chair from under the ring. He drives it down into the neck of John Cena with no remorse. Orton rolls Cena over and drives it into his chest. Orton with the cover but only gets two. Orton places Cena's head on the chair and goes for a jumping knee drop. Cena moves and Orton kills his own knee. Cena going for the STF and he locks it on. Orton crawling towards the ropes for dear life. Ref won't break the hold cause there are no rules inside the cell. Orton is able to use the bottom ring rope to choke Cena and force some separation. Ref bump and Chioda is down! Cena is able to lock it in again and Orton starts to tap. Nobody to call for the bell and Cena goes out to retrieve the official. Back inside, Orton sneaks up on Cena with a picture perfect RKO but Cena is able to get a shoulder up at two! Orton is able to get Cena tangled up in the ring ropes and then just begins to choke the life out of him. Not too long after a vicious Orton punt to the skull of Cena puts him down for the three count. New champion.

*Thoughts:* Well...there were a few things to like about this match. We saw a lot of viciousness from Orton which is something his character nowadays is sorely lacking. The problem I had with this match, is not so much something that should take away from the overall rating. Most of the time it felt like a regular match inside of the cell. There was nothing really to differentiate the two. A few uses of the steel steps here and there and a steel chair. The overall flow of the match was a little slow for my tastes as well. Overall though, not a bad championship match, just the usual Orton/Cena fare. *****

*Drew McIntyre vs. R-Truth*

Ahh yes, Drew Mac, The Chosen One. What a waste of talent. Hard to believe R-Truth is still employed but not Drew. Collar and elbow into a headlock by D-Mac, then a takeover. Truth battles to his feet and shoves McIntyre into the ropes, hitting a dropkick. Truth does some nice moves before connecting with another kick. Not even Truth pandering to the crowd can get them to care. Referee tries to hold Truth back from Drew and he uses the opportunity to kick Truth right in the face. McIntyre hammers away at Truth in the corner and then drops him with a clothesline. Drew with a variation on the rear chinlock. "Boring" chants at this point. Both men thinking the same thing as they do a double cross body block. Ref starts the count. Truth with a few knockdowns and then a scissors kick attempt that misses. McIntyre goes for the Future Shock but Truth with a pinning attempt for a near fall. Drew eventually hits the Future Shock for the win. 

*Thoughts:* Basically a showcase match. Which is still what Truth is being used for to this very day. Although nothing very impressive from Drew here, he did have a lot of potential. **3/4*

*WWE United States Championship
Triple Threat Match
The Miz vs. Jack Swagger vs. Kofi Kingston (C)*

Miz comes out and runs his mouth a little bit. Match starts out with a lot of double teaming from Miz and Swagger on Kofi, not surprisingly. Cole reminds us that this match is for the "prestigious" U.S title. Right. Kofi tries to get back into it but he quickly gets derailed. They work Kofi over in the corner and then Irish whip him to the buckle hard. Swagger gets double crossed by the Miz and eats a clothesline. Miz with his signature corner clothesline on Kingston. Miz off the top with a double ax handle to Swagger. Miz hits a neckbreaker on Kofi for a two count. Miz on a roll here. To be fair, Miz really has improved tremendously from his days tagging with Morrison. Kofi tries to go up top but is stopped by Miz. Swagger gets Miz on his shoulders and Kofi hits Miz with a cross body block. That gets the champion a near fall. Swagger drops Kofi face first into the top turnbuckle. Belly to belly suplex gets Swagger a 2 count. Swagger turns his attention to Miz. Miz gets hanged in the tree of woe and Swagger does some pushups. fpalm Kofi eventually brings Miz off the top with a back Suplex. A series of close near falls for everyone. Kofi fires up and does his Boom Boom schtick. Miz breaks up the cover. Kofi blasts Swagger with Trouble in Paradise. Miz with Skull Crushing Finale on Kofi. Swagger puts Kofi's leg on the ropes. Swagger with a big Gutwrench Powerbomb on Miz. Kofi with another Trouble in Paradise on Swagger. Kofi pins Miz and retains. 

*Thoughts:* Not a bad mid-card match. These three guys did the best they could with the time they were given and worked well enough together. Kofi is still the king of the mid card! ***1/2*










*Hell in a Cell Match
Legacy vs. Degeneration-X*

DiBiase and Rhodes jump DX on their way to the ring and the two teams brawl all around the outside of the cell. Both members of Legacy eat the announce table. Cody gets a monitor upside his head for his troubles. Rhodes then gets double teamed and suplexed on top of one of the tables. DiBiase blindsides Triple H and sends him over the barricade and into the fans. DiBiase with a suplex to bring HHH back over the barrier to ringside. HBK tosses Cody into the barricade with an Irish whip. DiBiase and HHH fighting back out in the crowd all of a sudden. Now all 4 men are out in the sea of humanity. Cody charges HBK but gets backdropped back over to the ringside area. Cody hits HBK with the chain they used to lock the cell. Cody then blasts HHH in the head with the chain. DiBiase and Rhodes deliver a double DDT to Triple H on top of the ramp. Cody delivers Cross Rhodes to HHH on the stage. HHH is neutralized for the time being. Legacy now focus their attention on Shawn who they now isolate in the doorway of the cell. DiBiase slams the cell door into the knee of HBK while Cody holds him. Legacy now lock themselves inside the cell with HBK, leaving HHH on the outside, giving themselves the advantage. Referee calls for the bell and this match is official. Shawn realizes he is in trouble and tries to fight off Legacy. They overwhelm him and connect with a high low attack. DiBiase with a chop block and Rhodes with a clothesline. Cody with a shin breaker on HBK. Shawn fights back with an enziguri on Cody but DiBiase stops any momentum Shawn tried to build. The two young guns continue to focus on the left leg of HBK. Shawn finds a chair under the ring and hits Cody with it. The 2 on 1 advantage is still too much for Shawn. At this point, HHH is beginning to crawl down towards the ring. Shawn gets catapulted into the cell but grabs onto the wall and leaps off onto Cody. DiBiase mauls him however. Both members of Legacy taunt HHH who is watching from outside the cell. Shawn sidesteps DiBiase and tosses him into Cody who flies off the apron back first into the cell. HBK with vintage flying forearm into kip up combo! Sweet Chin Music on DiBiase! Cody Rhodes has the steel chair from before. He pulls Shawn out of the ring and just blasts him in the back with it. Rhodes with a powerbomb to Shawn driving him backwards into the wall of the cell. HHH trying to break the padlock with a ....steel chair? :side: HHH is pissed on the outside as Legacy continue to taunt him. HHH bails to the back and the crowd doesn't get it. He's obviously going to get something to break into the cell. Shawn gets a steel chair dropkicked back into his face in a pretty nasty spot. They then use the same submission from Breaking Point when they got Shawn to tap out. Figure Four around the ring post. DiBiase also has the Million Dollar Dream locked on inside the ring. HHH runs down to save the day with a pair of bolt-cutters. HHH breaks in like gangbusters and cleans house. High knee to Cody Rhodes. Facebuster to DiBiase. He flings Rhodes into DiBiase and then delivers a spinebuster to Cody Rhodes onto the steel chair. HBK tackles DiBiase and then backdrops him over the top rope. Another referee comes down to lock the door again but HHH takes the chain from him and nails Teddy in the face with it. Pedigree to DiBiase on the floor! They then drag him outside of the cell and lock the cell door behind them! Cody is the isolated partner now! Another spinebuster for Cody and HHH places his head inside of the steel chair. HBK with a flying elbow from the top rope! HHH breaks out the sledgehammer! They then destroy Cody with a combination Sweet Chin Music/Sledgehammer shot combo for the victory!

*Thoughts: *Really enjoyed that main event and the story it told. The young lions of Legacy trying to outsmart the veterans of DX. I liked how they were able to get Shawn alone inside the cell to "teach him a lesson". Shawn has always played an excellent face in peril and that was no different here. The fans went wild when HHH finally got inside and the heels got their comeuppance. Easily the best cell match of the night. ****3/4*

*Overall Grade for Hell in a Cell 2009:* There was a lot to like here, including the solid main event and Intercontinental Championship matches. Tag team title bout was good too. The rest of the show left a little bit to be desired. Nothing terribly offensive but definitely no match of the year candidates on this show either.*All things considered, a solid B-* for Hell in a Cell 2009.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I've seen people in this thread justify the existence of Marc Mero, Lex Luger, Hardcore Holly, and first-run Chris Masters. I would love for someone to do the same with Kevin Sullivan.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Not sure anyone can check (as it's probably edited out on the Network), but at one point in the Meng/Benoit match, a fan clearly im sure shouts "Get up you pussy" lol Takes a second or two for the commentators to continue, so I'm sure that what was said.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Kevin Sullivan cursed Blackjack Mulligan during his satanic gig. Obviously this lead to giving us Bray Wyatt.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Wrestlemania XIV:*

Battle Royal: N/A
Taka vs Aguila: ★★
HHH vs Owen: ★★★
Mero/Sable vs Goldust/Luna: N/A
The Rock vs Shamrock: ★½
Dumpster Match: ★★¾
Undertaker vs Kane: ★★★¼
Austin vs HBK: ★★½

Probably good PPV for 1998 standards, but nothing was really that great imo. Historic and a big fight feel to the main event with Mike Tyson's involvement, though. The Austin Era has begun! :mark:


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Choke2Death said:


> *Wrestlemania XIV:*
> 
> Battle Royal: N/A
> Taka vs Aguila: ★★
> ...



Yikes. You liked Austin/HBK less than the Dumpster Match? But...but...Shawn is MR. WRESTLEMANIA!!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Chris Benoit vs Kevin Sullivan matches rule. If watching Sullivan, you want it to be a brawl. And why not have it be a brawl w/someone he openly disliked? Great result.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Didn't Sullivan threaten to legitimately murder Benoit at one point? Clearly there were a lot of well documented real life problems between the two.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> I have another 2004 request: Orton vs Batista from 8 November.


*Randy Orton vs Batista (Raw 11.08.2004): *

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wwe-m...vs-batista-raw-11-08-2004-a.html#post39341002

------------------------------------------------------

*WCW Great American Bash 1997:*

*Ultimo Dragon vs. Psychosis (w/Sonny Oono)* ***1/2
*Rick & Scott Steiner vs. Harlem Heat (w/Sister Sherri)* *1/2
*Hugh Morrus vs. Konnan* 1/2*
*Glacier vs. Wrath (w/James Vandenberg & Mortis)* *
*WCW Women’s Champion Akira Hokuto (w/Sonny Oono) vs. Madusa – Title vs. Career* **
*Chris Benoit vs. Meng (w/Jimmy Hart) – Death Match* **1/2 If Benoit wins, he could possibly at some point meet Kevin Sullivan again - NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
*Kevin Greene vs. Steve McMichael (w/Debra)* 1/2* Damn footballers.
*WCW World Tag Team Champions Scott Hall & Kevin Nash (w/Syxx) vs. Ric Flair & Roddy Piper* *
*Diamond Dallas Page (w/Kimberly) vs. Randy Savage (w/Elizabeth) – Falls Count Anywhere* ***1/2

I thought the Page/Savage brawl was a good prelude to the AE ones we would soon be swarm by. With the way the Piper/Flair tag match finished, im expecting them to properly start a feud the next night on Nitro. Its been slightly brewing TBH, in a wird way with some nonsensical promos between them.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*No Mercy 2006*

The holy grail of PPV in 2006!


*Gregory Helms Vs Matt Hardy*

What a way to kick off the show!!! :mark:

Helms ruled 06 as CW champion... though it was odd that he faced Matt hardy on PPV twice, since Matt was too FAT to be a CW, so helms didn't defend the belt on either occasion. Still, the CW champion was getting PPV matches and was looking great every time. Plus, with the brand split, they had plenty of time to have TV feuds over the title as well to help gain/retain viewers.

As well as a previous PPV match, over the last month on SD they've each had a victory over each other, both using a low blow behind the referee's back! So now it's the "rubber match" in this low blow series .

Slow start as they feel each other out, always playing up on their history of growing up in the business together and knowing each other so well and never being able to get the better of the other without resorting to something big.

Back and forth action, featuring one hell of a fucking kick to Hardy's gut from Helms! Surprised he didn't get a hump on his back from that!

Love how Helms works over his opponents neck. He has about a billion variations of the neck breaker and they all look sweet.

:mark: Helms using one of my favourite moves from the SD Vs Raw 2006 game, where you hook your opponents arms behind their back while on the mat, then knee the fuck out of their face :mark:.

CODE BREAKER~!

HARDY KICKS OUT~!

:mark: pretty epic PUNCH EXCHANGE from these two. Hardy throws one heck of a right hand.

Helms fucking DESTROYS Matt with 3 crazy reverse DDT/Neckbreaker types moves, but wastes far too much time playing to the crowd and climbing the ropes to show off, allowing Matt to recover enough to make a comeback!

THREE SIDE EFFECTS FROM MATT~! Nice revenge spot .

Matt also decides to go to the ropes, but is quick about it and hits a Moonsault...NO! Helms got the knees up!

SHINING WIZARD~!

KICK OUT~!

HOLY SHIT~! Helms dropped Matt balls first onto the ropes (nice call back to how this match came about), then took to the ropes and hit a Shining Wizard to Matt while he was still straddling the ropes!!!

HARDY GOT HIS FOOT ON THE ROPES~!

LOW BLOW COUNTERED INTO A TWIST OF FATE OUT OF NOWHERE~!

HELMS LOSES ON PPV FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 2006!

One hell of a fucking match!!! And this is just the OPENING MATCH!!!

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


Booker T and Sharmell backstage talking about the 4 way for the title tonight. REGAL shows up offering his services. Booker T tells Regal to find Finlay and convince him to help Booker tonight.


*Bryan Kendrick & Paul London Vs KC James & Idol Steves - WWE Tag Team Championship Match*

Michelle McCool as the hot, sexy, naught teacher :mark:. FAP.

That Idol Stevens looks familiar :side: .

Remember when Ashley was randomly put with Londrick? And then like, nothing came of it? Good times, good times... . I *think* they planned on doing something with them both falling in love with her but she only liked one of them, causing them to break up or some shit. Kinda glad it just got dropped.

:lmao Idol Sandow nearly falls over from kneeing London in the gut.

:lmao the more you see of Damien Stevens the more you realise why he disappeared by to development for another 6 years or whatever it was . I'm surprised he can walk, because he's constantly falling over himself and screwing up :lmao.

Sweet Jebus, London took one hell of a bump off the ropes to the floor.

Epic struggle from London trying to make a tag, with Damien Stedow desperately trying to drag him back to his corner :mark:. Love that shit in tag matches, makes the hot tag that much sweeter when it happens.

So aside from Idol Sandens being clumsy and somewhat shitty, he and James are a pretty solid team, working well together and putting together a nice control segment too.

McCool on the outside is always trying to help her team, putting foots on ropes, moving people out of the way etc, while Ashley just... stands around. She's as useless at being a manager as she is a wrestler :lmao.

MICHELLE'S TITS NEARLY POP OUT :mark:.

The superior team work once again proves to be the deciding factor for Londrick, as they retain their tag belts!

Really good match, but I can't help but think it could have been EVEN BETTER had Londrick had more established opponents. Still, impressive all things considering!

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


REGAL :mark:. He's looking for Finlay. He spots Vito (in a dress and heels) skipping. Regal decides to show him how it's done, but gets put off when Vito lifts his dress up to wipe sweat off his face. Then Regal walks into... some bowls of sauce that some guy is walking around with . :lmao Vince trying to swim in beer in 1998 ain't got nothing on Regal trying to stand up in the sauce .

Teddy Long comes out to the ring for a birthday celebration. The birthday boy? The Jiz. Urgh. Skipped everything here except for Layla. FAP.


*MVP Vs Marty Garner*

SQUASH~!

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


REGAL PENIS~! NAKED REGAL~! He runs into Teddy Long while naked in the hallway, so Teddy puts Regal in a match tonight, against a mystery opponent!!!


*The Undertaker Vs Mr Kennedy*

:mark: UNDERTAKER~!

Kennedy was actually great during this time. Loved that sit down interview he did leading up to this match too. They show bits of it in the video package, and it's well worth watching in full. Shame Kennedy went downhill rapidly in 2007, and has been a useless hack ever since. He seemed to have so much potential at the time.

Gotta love how Michael Cole manages to even make UNDERTAKER sound like some common nobody. HE ROUGHS PEOPLE UP~! :lmao

Undertaker catches Kennedy with a boot to the face and his boot seemingly sticks to Kennedy's face all the way down to the mat as Kennedy takes the bump :lmao.

:mark: Love Undertaker's early arm work in this one. Kennedy sells it really well, and Undertaker makes it look vicious as fuck. Kennedy counters Old School with an arm drag off the ropes, but one kick from Undertaker to the shoulder he'd been working on and Kennedy is back taking punishment!

EXPOSED TURNBUCKLE~!

Sign in the crowd saying "Let Eddie RIP". AKA STOP USING EDDIE IN STORYLINES YOU FUCKS.

Kennedy does what made me such a fan of him during this time; constantly creating openings for himself. He knocks Undertaker off the apron into the barricade. Knocks him off the ropes. Throws him to the outside, then catches him with a DDT as he comes back into the ring. Undertaker is still mostly dominant, because you know, he's the fucking UNDERTAKER, but this young upshot Mr Kennedy is taking advantage of every opportunity he can, and it makes for one hell of a match.

Holy Jebus, I think Kennedy just got back at Undertaker for that boot earlier. Does that running boot in the corner that people probably associate Samoa Joe with, and damn, it looks like he connects full on with 'Takers face!

Undertaker again fights back and...

PILEDRIVER TO THE UNDERTAKER~! :mark:

And of course Cole calls it a Tombstone because he's a fucking idiot.

I wish more people were able to do a Piledriver in WWE. It's an awesome move. And seriously, how many people have ACTUALLY been injured from a NORMAL PILEDRIVER? In WWE? Only guy I can think of in WWE that got injured from a Piledriver was Austin, and that was a modified one that was a mix between a normal piledriver and a tombstone. More people have been injured from clotheslines in the last couple of years than a piledriver in the last 3 decades...

:mark: Kennedy doing everything he can to avoid a Chokeslam, including using the referee! Fuck me, he even busts out some crazy flippy kick I'd expect to see from RVD! Undertaker avoids it and lands a Chokeslam finally!!!

LAST RIDE~! NO! Kennedy again fights out, and that exposed turnbuckle from earlier finally comes into play!!!

KENTON BOMB~!

UNDERTAKER KICKS OUT!!! :mark:

UNDERTAKER SITS UP!!!! KENNEDY RUNS AWAY!!!

Kennedy brings in the US title belt, gets punched in the face, then 'Taker picks up the belt and smashes it into Kennedy's face!

MR KENNEDY JUST BEAT THE UNDERTAKER BY DQ!!!

Undertaker is pissed, and takes out all his frustrations on Mr Kennedy, and then takes out the referee too!

This still fucking rules, and I genuinely don't understand why most people don't think highly of it lol. Oh well .

*Rating: ****1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 6*


*Rey Mysterio Vs Chavo Guerrero - Falls Count Anywhere*

Fine, I'll give this one a chance. Maybe it being FCA will help.

:lmao I forgot they even used Dominick during the build up to this one :lmao. What is it with WWE and using Rey's family? 

Flashbacks to their SS match early on as they repeat spots.

:lmao Chavo points at the "EG" arm band Rey wears and says "this isn't your Uncle, this isn't you blood", then punches it :lmao. I think I finally found the highlight of Chavo's career!!!

GORY SPECIAL ON THE GUARD RAIL~! And neither commentator acknowledges it...

Aaaand they spend 90% of this match fighting in a space between a row of seats and a guard rail. Big Show probably couldn't fit in the damn space they were in.

Rey botches the pin at the end.

So this sucked.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*William Regal Vs Chris Benoit*

CHRIS BENOIT IS BACK!!! :mark:

:mark: REGAL BLOCKED A CHOP :mark:.

This is just typical Benoit/Regal goodness :mark:. Neither man wants to let their opponent breath, so they are both always trying to apply a hold. Gnarly and gritty are two perfect works to describe any matches between these two (and when Finlay is involved too).

THE FIRST CHOP OF THE MATCH :mark:. Gets a huge pop and makes one hell of an impact because of Regal blocking the last attempt.

HEADBUTTS~!

GERMAN SUPLEX~!

DIVING HEADBUTT~!

BOTH MEN ARE BLEEDING FROM THE HEADBUTTS~!

:mark:

APRON DDT~! One of my favourite moves. Love that it was finally added into WWE games. Shame it couldn't have been added years ago when the games were good .

KNEE TREMBLER~!

BENOIT KICKS OUT~!

FOREARM INTO THE FACE WHILE MAKING A COVER~!

REGAL IS AWESOME~! :mark:

CHOP TO THE CUT ON REGAL'S HEAD~! AND AGAIN~! BENOIT IS AWESOME~! :mark:

I just can't say enough good shit about how awesome these guys are. Everything is a fight, everything is earned, and everything looks fantastic. Regal fighting to avoid the Crossface at the end is a terrific battle, but once Benoit has it locked in, Regal knows it's OVER and taps out straight away. Love it.

*Rating: ****1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 6*


Booker T confronts Regal when he comes back from the match, and wants to know if he talked to Finlay :lmao. Finlay shows up and tells Booker he's here tonight to take the WHC!!!

Booker T slaps Regal! REGAL FUCKING DECKS THE WHC!!! :mark: MVP might have made his debut on this PPV, but Regal is the REAL MVP tonight!!!


*Booker T Vs Finlay Vs Bobby Lashley Vs Batista - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

Originally supposed to be Booker Vs Lashley, but I guess they thought Lashley wasn't good enough to main event a PPV on his own yet, so they put in Batista... and then Finlay so SOMEONE in the match knew what they were doing .

GOAT Finlay slides out of the ring and sits down on the outside, leaving Booker to deal with Lashley and Batista :lmao. Then when he feels like it, he gets in the ring, attacks Lashley from behind and takes down Batista!

Despite the fact Finlay said he's here to win the title, he convinces Booker that he wants to team up with him against Lashley and Batista.

Booker and Finlay beat the shit out of Batista and Lashley, and Finlay finally decides to turn on Booker, who is definitely the weakest link in this match!!! :lmao JBL calls Finlay a Bastard :lmao.

Booker only has himself to blame. FINLAY TOLD HIM RIGHT BEFORE THE MATCH THAT HE WAS GONNA TAKE HIS TITLE FFS. It's his own damn fault for trusting him. Moron.

And just think, there WERE plans for a Finlay heel title run in 06, but Stephanie was a retarded bitch and said no . Yeah because Booker fucking T was such a great choice... urgh.

:mark: Finlay has an arm lock on Batista, but the POWER of the Animal allows him to stand up and hit a Samoan Drop... but Finlay doesn't let go of the arm!!! Lashley runs in to get him some and Finlay throws Batista aside and takes down Lashley!!! Finlay is fucking OWNING EVERYONE :mark:.

Booker nails Batista with a huge kick, and Cole screams "THERE'S THE FLEXIBILITY, THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT". When? WHEN THE FUCK WERE YOU TALKING ABOUT BOOKER T BEING FLEXIBLE?

"THIS LASHLEY IS A MAN!" Cole is just churning out the shit tonight lol.

LOW BLOW TO LASHLEY BY LITTLE BASTARD~!

SHILLELAGH TO THE FUCKING FACE OF LASHLEY~!

And Shitty T breaks up the pin and we don't get a Finlay WHC run .

JACKHAMMER BY BATISTA~!

BATISTA AND LASHLEY STAREDOWN~!

SPEAR BY BATISTA~! LASHLEY KICKS OUT~! I JUST GOT A BIT OF TISSUE IN MY MOUTH WHILE TRYING TO BLOW MY NOSE~!

:lmao the sweat dripping off of Batista and Lashley combined could fill an ocean.

BATISTA IS BLEEDING~! Not sure what's coming out of Batista more; the blood or the sweat .

Lashley and Batista basically beat each other senseless, allowing Finlay and Booker T to come in and pick the bones.

BOOKEND~! LASHLEY KICKS OUT~!

Batista with SPINEBUSTERS for everyone! What a generous guy .

BATISTA BOMB TO FINLAY~!

SPEAR TO BATISTA~!

BOOKER T COVERS FINLAY AND STEALS THE WIN~!

Aside from the shitty winner, this is a pretty awesome four way. Certainly one of the best in WWE history. A ton of fun, and man oh man, Finlay is such a damn WORKHORSE, keeping the match together and making it awesome.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 22*​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Mongo vs Green was pretty :mark: Mongo was a fun character who actually got the crowd reacting & Green always brought the energy. Scott Hall may have been Mr. Cool, but Kevin Green was openly working 40x harder than him. Among others on the roster too, but Hall actually WAS great, so he gets the comment.

Another fun show that is if you skip the LOL Konnan match & Glacier vs Wrath having zero chemistry in singles. A dull phase; rest of the matches worked. Benoit vs Meng is good stuff too. The first match is GREAT, but the sequel is still real good in its own right.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, TBH that rating was a little low. I actually like Greene, he really tried and worked hard, and Mongo gets alot of stick, be he did the same. They told a story and tried to make it watchable at least.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Greene vs Mongo happening was rad too b/c it was built all the way back in 96 and you wanted to see Greene eventually try to get his revenge. Def had more substance than expected. Of course Football schedules got in the way, but it was unusually some of the most sustained, coherent booking seen in the company during their Nitro years.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Is that Orton vs Batista for a match against Triple H for the WHC? If so, that's a solid gem right there.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

EDIT.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

:lmao @ Cal finding another way to shit on Chavo and still be funny. And ending it with "Rey botches the pin" made me laugh way more than it should've.

I will get around to watch the whole show later this year (read: when I get the NETWORK!) so I can give Kennedy vs Undertaker another shot. It was decent last I watched but Last Ride match ended up being my favorite of the series. And agree on the piledriver thing. It's such an easy move to execute without killing the other guy. Tombstone is the real challenge.

Glad you enjoyed the main event, though. That's a pretty fun four way and one of the few Booker matches from his reign that I enjoyed. Then there's Benoit vs Regal and I don't need to say a word.



pjc33 said:


> Yikes. You liked Austin/HBK less than the Dumpster Match? But...but...Shawn is MR. WRESTLEMANIA!!


Dumpster was wacky stuff. Stipulation is kinda stupid but Funk and Cactus always work well in this environment so they make it kinda enjoyable.

Main event I liked more a couple of years ago when I first saw it, but this time it was just boring and underwhelming for the talent involved. I understand that too since Shawn had a broken back and did more than he should've as it was. Ending is still awesome, though.



The Fab Four said:


> *Randy Orton vs Batista (Raw 11.08.2004): *
> 
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wwe-m...vs-batista-raw-11-08-2004-a.html#post39341002


Just DLed and the quality is top notch. You are the man!

The Spike version I got from the Orton pack on XWT was the regular full Raw that is out on the internet and quality for that is PUTRID.



> Is that Orton vs Batista for a match against Triple H for the WHC? If so, that's a solid gem right there.


No, it's another one. Right before Survivor Series and has no special stipulation. They get over 15 minutes and it's good stuff. There's also a good Benoit vs Edge match in the main event that night. If zep can upload that one, he'll continue to establish himself as THE KING of this place. Possibly unseating Cal.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Orton vs Batista from RAW in 05 following NYR? If so, then yeah I like that match too. Roll up finish is botched, but no big deal.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> There's also a good Benoit vs Edge match in the main event that night. If zep can upload that one, he'll continue to establish himself as THE KING of this place. Possibly unseating Cal.


Ill see what i can do.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Yeah, that's the one, for vs Hunter at RR 05. I'll check out the one DA KING (Fab Four) provided.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Orton's matches vs Batista & Flair leading up to the PPV match were tons better than that crapfest in Fresno. Feels like WWE always has to underperform w/PPVs no matter what the year :side:

I say that despite liking the rest of Royal Rumble 05.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Goddammit Cal, Taker/Kennedy gets a ****+ rating while Rey/Chavo gets a near DUD? GODDAMMIT CAL.

That aside, glad that you loved the show as much as I did. I still think Taker/Kennedy is pretty good btw, but I definitely think Rey/Chavo deserves a hell of a lot more credit. And there's so much other stuff from the show that deserves all the credit ever. DAT BENOIT/REGAL. DAT FUCKING BENOIT/REGAL :mark:.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching the 06/16/97 Nitro. Hogan coming out to 'Voodoo Chile' for the first time. :mark:

With 'Denise Rodman' :lol (Larrys little dig).


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Shield pack from XWT finally finished downloading about 3 months later. Maybe I'll actually watch some of it despite my current feelings towards wrasslin. I don't seem to have many fucks to give about wrestling matches these days. It's weird.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> Shield pack from XWT finally finished downloading about 3 months later. Maybe I'll actually watch some of it despite my current feelings towards wrasslin. I don't seem to have many fucks to give about wrestling matches these days. It's weird.


WFT dude? The Big Show is going to be in the title picture/main event soon, not good enough for ya?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Did I travel back in time w/Shield & Big Show in the championship picture chatter?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Yeah I saw that about Show. Honestly I don't care because I won't watch the match if it happens. I can't bring myself to care enough about it to even complain it's that shit and I don't really mind Show either. Best things about WWE right now are The Authority (including Rollins), Miz (yes, the fucking Miz), Bo Dallas, NXT and watching Cena make a dick of himself every week. Good times. I am pretty hype for Takeover 2 next Thursday. But for what was supposed to be a huge sell for the network NOC is sure turning out to be a pretty major bust. Hopefully we'll get Rollins/Ambrose and Lesnar in the cell to make up for it next month.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hollywood Miz is good stuff. Nice to have a good heel you want to see get punched. And he embraces the character well.

Rusev vs Henry angle is the big ticket for me atm. That screams dream match in my eyes. Every segment between both has rocked. Love Henry's team w/Show too. b/c those dudes are gold.

I like most of the roster, but it really feels that half of the product is floating around. I care, but at the same time, I don't. Weird time.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Hollywood Miz is good stuff. Nice to have a good heel you want to see get punched. And he embraces the character well.
> 
> Rusev vs Henry angle is the big ticket for me atm. That screams dream match in my eyes. Every segment between both has rocked. Love Henry's team w/Show too. b/c those dudes are gold.
> 
> I like most of the roster, but it really feels that half of the product is floating around. I care, but at the same time, I don't. Weird time.


Those words sum up my current feelings towards the product perfectly. I care but at the same time, I don't. Right now the guys I like are: Brock, Ambrose, Rollins, Cesaro, Henry, Rusev, Ziggler, Swagger, Reigns, Bray and the Wyatt Family, the NXT guys like Zayn, Neville, and Breeze, and hell even Hollywood Miz, as bad as he is in the ring, continues to get a legitimate rise out of me which is saying something. So what's the problem? That's like 3/4 of the guys you see on TV each week. Well the problem is they are doing fuck all with 90% of them, and the ones they are doing shit with they are mismanaging. Rollins and Ambrose was a pretty well done feud and I liked all the stuff they were doing but that's on hiatus right now.

So yea, I care, but at the same time I don't. Perfectly put. Maybe that's why I'm watching so much Hansen and Nakamura right now.


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

Nothing in 2006 is ever acknowledged except for Finlay/Benoit and Regal/Benoit. Did 2006 have any other good matches?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The product is garbage now, but I'm still sticking by it because of the talent, and out of hope Triple H starts getting more power and we see a big shift in programming. Vince will never retire, but hopefully Triple H can start getting more and more power. I have a lot of faith in him, especially after listening to his interview with Jericho.

Rusev/Henry is gonna be some good shit. Gonna love seeing Rusev sell for Henry and those two guys putting on a good match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

BREEaments03 said:


> Nothing in 2006 is ever acknowledged except for Finlay/Benoit and Regal/Benoit. Did 2006 have any other good matches?


It did, but they were all concentrated on Smackdown, with gems from ECW. People do talk about those two combinations way too much while neglecting other great matches from that year. I mean London and Kendrick both had years that were comparable to all three of those guys. Maybe even better. Oh, and how about The Pitbulls?


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

I have no idea who the Pitbulls were/are unless they're the ones from ECW and I'm pretty sure one of them was dead in 06.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

There were plenty of good shit in 2006 other than just Benoit/Finlay and Benoit/Regal.

Undertaker/Angle, Benoit/Orton, Orton/Mysterio are combinations that put up some absolute classics - twice each. Then there's a whole bunch of very good stuff.

---------------------

Got to watch the Batista/Orton match I requested and I'm disappointed by how it failed to hold up compared to past watches. Mainly because Batista controls most of the middle portion and his offense is just so dull as he keeps doing restholds.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Edge vs. Cena


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Welp, Zayn/Cesaro just got unseated for MOTY. I just experienced Ishii vs Ibushi 5/25/14 Return to Yokohama Arena for the first time and it rocked my friggin socks off. Unbelievable, Ishii is such an believable bad ass, and Ibushi again is one of the more natural baby faces AND most athletic people I've ever seen step into the ring. The blows they trade during the finishing stretch are just SICKENING, especially Ishii's gigantic HEADBUTT and a few of Ibushi's forearm strikes.

If we were counting matches from ALL countries, my current MOTY rankings would be:

1. Ishii vs Ibushi 5/25/15 ****3/4
2. Cesaro vs Zayn NXT ArRival ****3/4
3. Nakamura vs Ishii G1 Climax 2014 ****3/4
4. Wyatt Family vs The Shield Elimination Chamber 2014 ****3/4
5. Suzuki vs Styles G1 Climax 2014 ****1/2
6. Okada vs Nakamura G1 Climax 2014 ****1/2

Here is the match if anyone is interested in experiencing greatness first hand:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1...ibushi-njpw-back-to-yokohama-arena-2014_sport


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Rah said:


> Kevin Sullivan cursed Blackjack Mulligan during his satanic gig. Obviously this lead to giving us Bray Wyatt.


This actually makes sense. 



BREEaments03 said:


> Nothing in 2006 is ever acknowledged except for Finlay/Benoit and Regal/Benoit. Did 2006 have any other good matches?



One of my favorite matches the last 10 years....


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> But for what was supposed to be a huge sell for the network NOC is sure turning out to be a pretty major bust.


I'm especially annoyed because we planned a whole trip around NOC, and my enthusiasm has been dampened greatly by the WWE not treating it like a big deal. I thought that they would, due to the network. That was the whole reason for us choosing NOC.

At least Brock is going to be there, which is what I was hoping for. Don't know how they're gonna top SS, though. SS was so perfect to me, that it lessens my enthusiasm for Brock/Cena & Dolph/Miz. 

Usos are fun, but going against Stardust/Goldust is pointless, since they keep giving it away on tv. They've given away Usos vs Harper/Rowen a lot, but at least that's more interesting than the Wyatts dealing with Show/Henry. Just UGH at everything lately.

Then to top things off, Orton is aimless; Ambrose is probably only going to show up for a run-in; Kane's probably gonna be involved somehow in another useless tag match involving Reigns and Rollins.

When planning the trip, had visions of:

Brock against a new, great, challenger

Rusev continuing to dominate against someone I actually care about

Rollins/Ambrose continuing their feud

Triple H vs. Reigns facing off (this was initially rumored)

Wyatt coming off being put over strongly again. Is he even gonna be at NOC now? Ugh. 

Maybe actually treating the IC/US Titles as something important with some kind of merging. It is NOC, after all. At least Cesaro/Sheamus should be a good match, but they've done nothing to build up either of their momentum to make people care.


Not much is coming to fruition. Thank God we have tickets to RAW the next night. I feel that show will probably be better than NOC. 

Maybe they're gonna put everything into HIAC because that's when the subscriptions for those who ordered for WM will expire. Probably should have planned a trip around that, but oh well. The WWE is not even pretending to care about this PPV. Hopefully major happenings will be going on with the main event at least.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

BREEaments03 said:


> Nothing in 2006 is ever acknowledged except for Finlay/Benoit and Regal/Benoit. Did 2006 have any other good matches?


There were often up to three matches on SmackDown every week that were worth a watch.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

2002-2006 Smackdown so fun


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Welp, Zayn/Cesaro just got unseated for MOTY. I just experienced Ishii vs Ibushi 5/25/14 Return to Yokohama Arena for the first time and it rocked my friggin socks off. Unbelievable, Ishii is such an believable bad ass, and Ibushi again is one of the more natural baby faces AND most athletic people I've ever seen step into the ring. The blows they trade during the finishing stretch are just SICKENING, especially Ishii's gigantic HEADBUTT and a few of Ibushi's forearm strikes.
> 
> If we were counting matches from ALL countries, my current MOTY rankings would be:
> 
> ...


Ishii vs Ibushi was strong & a great addition to Ishii's NEVER Openweight catalog, but it wasn't one of the top matches of the year for me. Almost not even close, despite it def being great. Ishii vs Naito _(from New Beginning & Invasion Attack)_, vs KUSHIDA, & Honma are all better just from the Ishii list alone. Which speaks volumes about the year he's been having. And I'm pretty sure you'd flip out for Ishii vs Naito I. It's absurd.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> There were often up to three matches on SmackDown every week that were worth a watch.


Definitely agree on this. Smackdown in 2006 owned.

Londrick/MNM. :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I don't watch much NJPW (im a fan, just don't have the time to watch alot online, so just watch some matches now and again), but Ricochet vs Kota Ibushi (Dominion) is one of my favorite matches of the year. Not sure if it's considered a MOTYC though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

People don't talk about 06 matches aside from Regal/Finlay/Benoit? HAS THIS GUY NEVER VENTURED INTO THE THREAD BEFORE?!?!! 

Undertaker/Angle x 2
Orton/Benoit x 2
Orton/Rey x 2
Undertaker/Kennedy x 3 (FUCK the haters )
London & Kendrick/Regal & Talor x a bunch (singles and tags)
London & Lendrick/MNM x I dunno, like, 10? They had a LOT of matches
London & Kendrick/Any other tag team they fucking wrestled x EVERY FUCKING WEEK
Regal/JBL in England
Benoit/JBL x 2 (WM & Cage)
Kennedy/Benoit (did they have multiple matches in 06? I know there is a great one in 06 and a great one in 07, not sure if they have another in 06 without checking my list)
Kennedy/Batista
Undertaker & Kane Vs WHOEVER THE FUCK THEY FACED
Lashley Vs Finlay x 3 or so
NO MERCY, JUDGMENT DAY & ARMAGEDDON in general
GAB and NWO for a handful of matches too
Finlay/Rey
Henry/Rey
Henry/Benoit

THAT'S JUST OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. AND ON SMACKDOWN.

EDIT: Helms and Hardy. All year. Against each other and other people.


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

I did forget about the epic NWO encounter between UT and Angle.

You seem very enthusiastic about 2006, ROOT. Is this one of your favorite years?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

On the SD side of things, yeah. A few years ago I did a SD 06 project where I went through every show and PPV and watched any match that interested me and wrote about every single one. Found a ton of awesome matches that until then nobody talked about. Once I pimped the year everyone else made it a point to go and watch .


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Welp, Zayn/Cesaro just got unseated for MOTY. I just experienced Ishii vs Ibushi 5/25/14 Return to Yokohama Arena for the first time and it rocked my friggin socks off. Unbelievable, Ishii is such an believable bad ass, and Ibushi again is one of the more natural baby faces AND most athletic people I've ever seen step into the ring. The blows they trade during the finishing stretch are just SICKENING, especially Ishii's gigantic HEADBUTT and a few of Ibushi's forearm strikes.
> 
> If we were counting matches from ALL countries, my current MOTY rankings would be:
> 
> ...


Watch Ishii vs Naito from New Beginning please and Styles vs Naito and Shibata vs Honma from this year's G1. Interested in seeing what you think of those matches


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

Shibata vs Honma is so good. I quite like Ishii but I didn't care much for his matches with Naito.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

What Raven said. Ishii/Naito was mindblowing, like legit ***** contender for me (not sure if there but a contender for sure), and Shibata/Honma just has you bite your fingers in hope Honma wins. Styles/Naito I also remember being great but my memory fails on it now .

And I'm pretty sure there's much more from 2006 that's recognized than just the Finlay/Benoit/Regal stuff. Gonna ask whoever did that question: are you a new entry in this thread?


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

Of course, I only have 59 posts...why do you ask.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Fab Four said:


> I don't watch much NJPW (im a fan, just don't have the time to watch alot online, so just watch some matches now and again), but Ricochet vs Kota Ibushi (Dominion) is one of my favorite matches of the year. Not sure if it's considered a MOTYC though.


Hit the mark for me. Crowd was monumentally molten for it. Unreal. Adored the finish.



> This is the type of match you can only do one time. And in that one time you better hope it comes off how it should; feeling special. Which, for the benefit of these two, it did here. Good ol BODYMAKER. A pure spectacle between two dazzling wrestlers. More-so on Ricochet's end on this night; as it was a full blown showcase for him on the biggest stage he's ever worked for New Japan. Goodness how he didn't disappoint. Match went tit for tat in the absurdly athletic department. That's what the story was here; the competition to win off who could out "super junior heavyweight" the other. So while the final stretch was fairly "your turn; my turn" type pacing, I was buying into it b/c they made me. The aura surrounding this was molten. If this would have happened in most other places in the World, it probably wouldn't have worked. Only noticeable iffy part about the match was Ibushi's delayed burning lariat. Looked..bad. But other than that - my goodness - what booming excitement. Felt like I was a kid again being amazed at all the feats. (you couldn't believe my reaction the the frankensteiner spot) Once in a blue moon showcases are fine by me. Especially when they're this kind of fun.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

To be sure 8*D.

Ibushi/Ricochet is the absolute meaning of a dream match that went as well as it could've. And unmentioned here because it is a 2013 match, I also loved Ibushi/Low Ki/Devitt out of Ibushi's impressive line up of matches.

Btw, wasn't Triple H sighting to sign Ibushi a few months ago? Cause, you know: Bryan, Cesaro, Zayn, Rollins, Ambrose, Steen, Devitt, Callihan/Crowe, Kalisto, Neville, the Wyatts, Orton, Cena (occasionally), Sheamus, Ziggler, Rusev, Swagger, Barrett, Henry, Show (occasionally), Lesnar, Cody/Stardust, Goldust, Sandow, Breeze and Ibushi all inside the same company? Jesus fucking Christ DAT TALENT POOL.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena occasionally but a lot of other names put in there w/o the asterisk.

bookasmiley


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cody's always gotta come to Cena's rescue, kinda like what Cena himself does A LOT of time just because GOOD GUY CENA 8*D

Yes I say Cena occasionally, because he only clocks in GOOD performances occasionally for me. Opinions brah.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching the NWO vs WCW Take Over Tour 1997 PPV, which was held in Germany and broadcast on German televison. Two featured matches:

*Chris Benoit vs Meng*






*Rey Misterio Jr. vs Dean Malenko*


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

BREEaments03 said:


> Shibata vs Honma is so good. I quite like Ishii but I didn't care much for his matches with Naito.





BREEaments03 said:


> Of course, I only have 59 posts...why do you ask.



:lol

Sorry about that brah, I'm pretty much a noob when it comes to this thread myself


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Still haven't watched Meng/Benoit, but Rey/Malenko is fantastic. Easily their best natch together for me.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)




----------



## -Skullbone- (Sep 20, 2006)

^^^Orton will never overcome the wrath of the announcers table.

What are people's thoughts on the idea some have that Rollins' work has regressed as a heel? Do you feel it's warranted or not?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

That's only second to Orton's Cheerleader Jump as his defining moment right there.

Rollins' ring work hasn't regressed at all. It's just that he plays a much better babyface than he does a heel. But he's still amazing in the ring, regardless of the role.

So anybody here excited for Takeover II?


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Eh? I'm preferring Seth's work as a heel currently tbh. As a face, he really didn't work that many singles matches and in the Shield tags he'd just come in and hit a few dives.

He's doing much better as a heel imo. Hasn't regressed at all. Has been a little affected by being in essentially one sided matches for the most part or Kane interference but I'm digging his role atm.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Went on a Fatal Four Way binge last night. Don't ask me why, but I decided to watch as many as I could before falling asleep. I'll rank them in order of enjoyment.

*WWE Championship Fatal Four Way
Backlash 2007
Edge vs. Randy Orton vs. Shawn Michaels vs. John Cena (C)
****1/2*

Easily the best of the bunch. They worked at a frenetic pace and there was never a lull in the action. The 4 of these guys blend so well together here. From the dissension of Rated RKO to HBK's fire to take the title from Cena, this match had a lot of story behind it. The final 5 minutes were ace.
*
WWE Championship Fatal Four Way Elimination Match
Backlash 2008
JBL vs. John Cena vs. Triple H vs. Randy Orton (C)*
******

Exactly a year after the previous match, we get this, while not as good, still a great main event in it's own right. The elimination stipulation adds a whole other element to this one. Things were going good and then JBL and Cena get eliminated within 10 seconds of each other. The last 15 minutes between Orton and HHH were actually great and dare I say the best chemistry they have ever had inside of a wrestling ring. Fans pop huge for HHH win as this was the end of the "Age of Orton." 

*WWE Championship Fatal Four Way Match
Armageddon 2004
Booker T vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. The Undertaker vs. JBL (C)*
****1/4*

Ok, I won't lie, I had never seen this until last night. I also think that this match is NEVER talked about which leads me to believe either nobody remembers it or nobody knows it exists. Possibly one of the only redeeming matches from Bradshaw's title reign. Now, I'm not saying this is a classic. Because it isn't. However I have to admit I really enjoyed it. It was fun in it's chaos. Eddie was great here. And it was just such a random assortment of superstars. 2 Hall of Famers and 2 no doubt future Hall of Famers. Latino Heat and The Deadman in the same match. And a....HEIDENREICH SIGHTING? What's not to like?

*WWF Championship Fatal Four Way Match
Unforgiven 2000
Chris Benoit vs. Kane vs. The Undertaker vs. The Rock (C)*
*****

I remembered LOVING this match as a kid when I first saw it. Wanted to see how it held up all these years later. Well...it was still fun. Rock actually looked like the underdog here, despite being the champion. Benoit was his usual technical self here, hitting everything with surgeon like precision. Taker looked really out of shape, as this was months into his American Bad Ass persona. Benoit actually "wins" here, although under scrutiny. Commish Mick Foley comes out and reverses the decision. This is the second time that year he did that to Benoit. Rock ends up getting the win with a Rock Bottom on Benoit. 

*WWF Championship Fatal Four Way Elimination Match
Wrestlemania 2000 
Big Show vs. The Rock vs. Mick Foley vs. Triple H (C)*
***1/2*

I actually really don't like this match, for many reasons. This should have never been the main event of this show. Should have been The Rock and HHH one on one. Foley himself has said he had reservations about coming back for this one. So much wrong here. The McMahons being at ringside, "supporting" their represented stars is just an idiotic way to get them on the show. The match goes for way too long. Foley almost kills himself with the botched table spot. Vince "turns" on Rocky even though we never had any reason to believe Vince wanted him to win to begin with. Just awful. Stay away.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> There's also a good Benoit vs Edge match in the main event that night. If zep can upload that one, he'll continue to establish himself as THE KING of this place. Possibly unseating Cal.


*Chris Benoit vs Edge (Raw 11.08.2004)*

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wwe-m...it-vs-edge-raw-11-08-2004-a.html#post39359922


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I think I preferred Rollins as a babyface worker because of his willingness to bump like a mad person, sell his ass off and then time beautifully athletic comebacks but he's still been plenty good as a heel. Heel Rollins made me enjoy a RVD match and that never happens. Ambrose on the other hand is infinitely better as a babyface. It was hilarious when people on here freaked out about Ambrose turning face and said he was the natural heel of the group and should never have turned. Silly WWE section.


----------



## -Skullbone- (Sep 20, 2006)

^^^In adding to that, I think people will _really_ take notice of Ambrose's talents when he does inevitably turn heel. I think it's fair to say it'll be as impactful as his current face persona on most.



RAVEN said:


> Eh? I'm preferring Seth's work as a heel currently tbh. As a face, he really didn't work that many singles matches and in the Shield tags he'd just come in and hit a few dives.
> 
> He's doing much better as a heel imo. Hasn't regressed at all. Has been a little affected by being in essentially one sided matches for the most part or Kane interference but I'm digging his role atm.


Firstly, I forgot that Rollins has been wrestling as a heel for the majority of his WWE career so far. That was silly of me. 

Perhaps it might be a sign as to how things have changed for the boys after the Shield disbanded? Both Rollins and Ambrose have moved on to forge updated personas (albeit with shitty generic themes) while Reigns has been saddled with all the previous group's insignia. It appears I share the majority of this forum's opinion in that it really hasn't been the ideal way to help burst Reigns out of the blocks and into overnight stardom.

Back on topic, it's just a couple of whisperings I've heard around places regarding Rollins becoming less engaging in their eyes. I don't agree with it, for the record. Obviously he's a heel and can't have people cheering him for his insane aerobic capacity and athleticism. Still, I think the standard was set so high with what Rollins did in the tag matches that some still want to see him at his bombastic 'best' (which is not easy to do as a WWE heel). 

I agree that this has likely been his most consistent body of work as an individual. Sure, that's an opinion by proxy, as this is his longest tenure as a singles wrestler. He's done well to get that slimy, opportunistic and cerebral character over in his matches (he's still 'The Architect' afterall), which the MITB accessory compliments. Come to think of it, he's probably the strongest briefcase holder booked since Cena at this moment. The Smackdown match where he essentially wrecked Van Dam was great in illustrating this point. 

Also, any current critic should think about the part Rollins played in the Shield tag matches when fulfilling a part of the group's dynamic, and how most of their matches unfolded as a result. He was a huge reason most tag matches were off the hook. He can't be allowed to do that stuff as a singles wrestler though if the material he's given isn't allowing him to kill it with amazing opponents, feuds and heat every night. Methinks he'll really bring out all the stops when the opportunity presents itself booking-wise. (which it should when Ambrose comes back).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I like Ambrose as a face more. I was underwhelmed by his singles matches as a heel but they've really got themselves something special now with him as a face when nobody thought it was gonna work. To me, his over the top persona goes along with being a face despite the intention being the opposite. The way he sells and his loose cannon persona is easy to like.

Really hope him and Seth get to go at it inside the cell. Unfortunately, I don't expect any blood but if these two made a lumberjack match work, I have faith in them putting on a classic in HIAC.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Ambrose/Rollins in the Cell should be a doozy.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Saint Dick said:


> Ambrose/Rollins in the Cell should be a doozy.


Yeah but only if they let them go all out. Anything watered down and it will just be a disappointment. We can usually tell when guys are holding back. These two guys are capable of putting on a full-throttle, balls to the wall Hell in a Cell match. Chances are we won't get that.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

They went all out to make a Lumberjack match work. They didn't REALLY go full-throttle on their Falls Count Anywhere match, and that was still a MOTYC in its own right. If they're let loose like that inside HIAC, for like 25 minutes, this could be a top 5 Cell match of all time, easily. This is a situation where we have a potential ***** in our hands... if they know how to make it. I have major faith that they do.

And speaking of which, I hope to God it ME's HIAC. Brock doesn't need to work that PPV, let alone to face the Big Show, and I just want that match to get the biggest spotlight possible period. And no better way for that than to have them ME. I'm not even a buyrates guy, but Battleground buyrates, despite the Network and lack of PPV providers, did almost as much as last year. Reason? Most likely to be Ambrose/Rollins. If they can make people buy THAT show, the Main Event spot inside HIAC should be easy cake.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

The only way I want Lesnar to work HIAC is if it's another match with Cena, imagine Rollins-Ambrose and Brock-Cena both inside HIAC on the same show? :mark:


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Soooo....what are we expecting for the 2 announced matches tonight? No way Orton/Reigns are gonna pull another rabbit out of the hat tonight. Summerslam match was surprisingly good. Expect almost a copy/paste job tonight. As far as Jericho/Wyatt in the cage, I'm guessing this will be the last interaction these guys have for the time being. Hopefully better than their previous two encounters. 

Plus...something has to happen. Those 4 men...Orton/Reigns/Jericho/Wyatt, NONE of them are announced for the Night of Champions PPV. And there are already like 6 known matches announced. With no Rollins or Ambrose (as of yet), that show is looking like a bust.

U.S Title: Cesaro vs. Sheamus (C) 
Divas Title: AJ vs. Big Tits Bella vs. Paige (C)
IC Title: Miz vs. Dolph Ziggler (C) 
Rusev vs. Mark Henry 
Tag Team Titles: Gold/Stardust vs. The Usos (C)
WWE WHC: Cena vs. Lesnar (C)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

If Reigns/Orton produces something like Summerslam, which was decent at best, I'd be amazed because I don't think Orton will turn it up a notch again.

Wyatt/Jericho from Summerslam was good, but with the cage stip you never know... could be awesome or suck.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Orton/Reigns depends on the time they give it AND on Orton's performance, again. Jericho/Bray... well, the last time Bray worked a Cage match, it was so much suck. And these two just don't really have that much chemistry. Jericho doesn't have a Super character though, so I'm expecting something better than Cena/Bray, even if that's not saying much.

As far as NOC, it could be a good show but other than Henry/Rusev and the ending of Cena/Lesnar, I don't really care about it. But a rumor has it that Ambrose will tag w/Reigns against Rollins and either Orton or Kane, I don't know. And we were supposed to get the Jericho/Bray blow-off on the PPV, apparently we won't.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Wouldn't surprise me if it somehow ended up something like Reigns/Jericho/Ambrose-Orton/Rollins/Kane at NoC.

Jericho needs something to do and I'm assuming he'll be finished with Wyatt after tonight. He's had a few interactions with The Authority since returning so wouldn't be completely out of the blue.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton and Reigns could have a DUD for all I care as long as Orton doesn't lose clean again. It's near impossible to have anything more than decent for a match with Reigns anyways, so I'm more concerned about the follow-up rather than the quality as I just want the feud to END.

Hopefully they just go through with HHH vs Reigns for NoC by having Hunter cost Reigns the match to set it up. Works out for the best.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

There will likely be a multi person tag or something. Don't think they'll go with a Reigns vs Rollins singles match so soon (and they shouldn't). Reigns vs Orton AGAIN after this Raw will be too much. Not sure about Jericho/Bray. Or Kane. Whole thing's a clusterfuck, let's see what they come up with.

Swagger vs Dallas could be on the pre show.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

I'd mark for Ambrose/Reigns vs. Rollins/Orton at NOC. Kane can stay the fuck at home!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ambrose & Reigns/Rollins & Orton does sound fucking amazing if done right. None of the old traditional tag clichés, no hot tags or face in perils, just an all-out war between the two parties.

If I were gonna book this I guess I'd announce some 6-Man Tag between Reigns, Jericho & Show/Rollins, Orton & Wyatt to tie the loose ends. Then on the night Rusev attacks Show from behind to get some mind advantage over Henry, and Ambrose comes out to replace him to a massive pop.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Its a shame when now i have that 'Oh for fuck sake' feeling everytime Kane is involved in something.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Okay guys. Lets try this. In honor of some spirited discussion. Let's play a game of "Would You Rather". What I mean by this is, I'm gonna throw out a pair of matches, between the same 2 competitors. Most likely highly praised matches from a series. Your job is to pick which one out of the 2 you would rather watch if you had to choose one. The other match that you don't choose, ceases to exist and you can never watch it again.

Ok. Let's get it going.

Undertaker vs. HBK: Hell in a Cell I *OR* Undertaker vs. HBK: Wrestlemania 25

Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart: Wrestlemania X *OR* Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart/Steel Cage: Summerslam 1994

Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart: Survivor Series '96 *OR *Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart/Submission Match: Wrestlemania 13

TLC I: Summerslam 2000 *OR* TLC II: Wrestlemania X7

Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat:Chi-Town Rumble *OR* Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat 2/3 Falls: Clash of the Champions VI


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Taker/HBK: Hell In A Cell
Bret/Owen: WrestleMania
Austin/Bret: WrestleMania (GOAT)
TLC: SummerSlam
Flair/Steamboat: Clash of the Champions


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Taker/HBK: Hell In A Cell (GOAT)
> Bret/Owen: WrestleMania
> Austin/Bret: WrestleMania
> TLC: SummerSlam
> Flair/Steamboat: Clash of the Champions


Well this saves me some time .


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Undertaker vs. HBK: Wrestlemania 25

Haven't seen the cage match so Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart: Wrestlemania X by default

Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart/Submission Match: Wrestlemania 13

Haven't seen the Summerslam match so TLC II: Wrestlemania X7 by default

Haven't seen either

*John Cena v CM Punk Night of Champions 2012 or John Cena v CM Punk Raw 25/2/13. *


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

RAVEN said:


> There will likely be a multi person tag or something. Don't think they'll go with a Reigns vs Rollins singles match so soon (and they shouldn't). Reigns vs Orton AGAIN after this Raw will be too much. Not sure about Jericho/Bray. Or Kane. Whole thing's a clusterfuck, let's see what they come up with.
> 
> Swagger vs Dallas could be on the pre show.


I can see Reigns vs. Rollins, Kane & Orton at Night of Champions with Ambrose returning to save Reigns during it.

The first time Reigns and Rollins go at it one-on-one on PPV should be for the title after Rollins cashes in on Reigns.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Ryan193 said:


> Undertaker vs. HBK: Wrestlemania 25
> 
> Haven't seen the cage match so Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart: Wrestlemania X by default
> 
> ...


John Cena vs. CM Punk: *Night of Champions 2012*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

This episode of Nitro, Flair and The Horsemen beat down on Piper. Was this supposed to be a heel turn for Flair, or was that abandoned because Piper left for a bit after their match?


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

Ryan193 said:


> The only way I want Lesnar to work HIAC is if it's another match with Cena, imagine Rollins-Ambrose and Brock-Cena both inside HIAC on the same show? :mark:


It will be inside HiaC but will the cell really play a factor? Probably not.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

WGTT vs. Rey/Kidman from SD 08/14/03 is so much fun


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Choke2Death said:


> I like Ambrose as a face more. I was underwhelmed by his singles matches as a heel but they've really got themselves something special now with him as a face when nobody thought it was gonna work. To me, his over the top persona goes along with being a face despite the intention being the opposite. The way he sells and his loose cannon persona is easy to like.
> 
> Really hope him and Seth get to go at it inside the cell. Unfortunately, I don't expect any blood but if these two made a lumberjack match work, I have faith in them putting on a classic in HIAC.


Amrbose being such a great face is shocking. I'm an indy wrestling fan and he was always a heel and his character was always really good. He was said to be a guy that would for far because he played a heel well. Now he's a face and his character is better and he's a lot better in the ring. I never expected that to happen and I'm really happy that it is working so well.



pjc33 said:


> Okay guys. Lets try this. In honor of some spirited discussion. Let's play a game of "Would You Rather". What I mean by this is, I'm gonna throw out a pair of matches, between the same 2 competitors. Most likely highly praised matches from a series. Your job is to pick which one out of the 2 you would rather watch if you had to choose one. The other match that you don't choose, ceases to exist and you can never watch it again.
> 
> Ok. Let's get it going.
> 
> ...


Wrestlemania 25. It has a clean ending, one of the most shocking kickouts ever, and made the streak something more prestigious than any title.

This is a tough call. I'm honestly leaning towards the cage match. The more I think of that match the more I like it. It's one of the smartest worked matches that you will ever come across and it was just desperate struggle to win the match. On the other hand the Wrestlemania X is a masterpiece. Like there is nothing wrong with it at all, absolute perfection in the ring. I think I'm going with Wrestlemania X

Wrestlemania XIII. Successfully doing a double turn is one of the coolest things you can possibly do in a wrestling match. You have to know the crowd so well and do it in a subtle way that escalates perfectly. At the end you think to yourself, "What did I just see?!" No match pulls it off better than Wrestlemania XIII. 

I'm not sure on this one. I'll just say that I liked whichever one had better spots and I really can't remember which.

2/3 Falls all the way. I wrote a review on it not too long ago and it's just amazing. I loved how the dynamic changed from fall to fall, it made the time blow by.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

pjc33 said:


> I'd mark for Ambrose/Reigns vs. Rollins/Orton at NOC. Kane can stay the fuck at home!


Yeah, that's what I'm hoping to God for. It's the only plausible combination that I think I'd be happy over.


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

pjc33 said:


> Undertaker vs. HBK: Hell in a Cell I *OR* *Undertaker vs. HBK: Wrestlemania 25*
> 
> *Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart: Wrestlemania X **OR* Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart/Steel Cage: Summerslam 1994
> 
> ...


Coincidentally I have Flair/Steamboat at CTR on pause atm shortly after Flair takes control and on the outside of the ring. I know it's adored but I don't like the CotC match all that much. I much prefer WW and CTR over it.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Orton and Reigns could have a DUD for all I care as long as Orton doesn't lose clean again. It's near impossible to have anything more than decent for a match with Reigns anyways, so I'm more concerned about the follow-up rather than the quality as I just want the feud to END.
> 
> Hopefully they just go through with HHH vs Reigns for NoC by having Hunter cost Reigns the match to set it up. Works out for the best.


Wouldn't surprise me if they go the lazy route and have a non-finish for tonight's match to set up a gimmick match between Reigns and Orton at NoC. Hopefully that isn't the case.

They won't pull the trigger on HHH/Reigns like that. It's one of the biggest matches they can do right now. They'll build that up properly and try to make it feel huge, not just throw it together at the last minute.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Still haven't watched Meng/Benoit, but Rey/Malenko is fantastic. Easily their best natch together for me.


omg plz watch it already.



Cleavage said:


> WGTT vs. Rey/Kidman from SD 08/14/03 is so much fun


This is true. Shelton & Haas in 03 was the tops.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

That Steel Cage match was pretty terrible imo. Just nonsensical booking throughout the match and a shitty ending to boot. Not to sound nit-picky but I hated how Bray kept trying to crawl out of the cage, even at the beginning of the match. He should be dishing out the pain, not running away from it.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

I thought it was good, certainly better than their PPV matches.

The ending doesn't bother me, I'm not a big Wyatt fan though so him not looking that strong doesn't bother me.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Irrelevant said:


> That Steel Cage match was pretty terrible imo. Just nonsensical booking throughout the match and a shitty ending to boot. Not to sound nit-picky but I hated how Bray kept trying to crawl out of the cage, even at the beginning of the match. He should be dishing out the pain, not running away from it.


Agreed. I thought it was garbage.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Thought it was pretty ok.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

ATF said:


> Ambrose & Reigns/Rollins & Orton does sound fucking amazing if done right. None of the old traditional tag clichés, no hot tags or face in perils, just an all-out war between the two parties.
> 
> If I were gonna book this I guess I'd announce some 6-Man Tag between Reigns, Jericho & Show/Rollins, Orton & Wyatt to tie the loose ends. Then on the night Rusev attacks Show from behind to get some mind advantage over Henry, and Ambrose comes out to replace him to a massive pop.


These two matches below solve the problem of not knowing what to do with certain people, and makes the most sense as far as feuds are concerned. I think that they're also the best possible combination of the people involved:

Orton/Seth vs. Ambrose/Reigns
Wyatt Family vs. Jericho/Big Show/Mark Henry

Voila, problem solved, and I'd actually start getting kind of excited about the NOC card.

I haven't seen anything from RAW yet, so I don't know where everyone stands at this very moment as far as feuds are concerned.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Ishii vs Ibushi was strong & a great addition to Ishii's NEVER Openweight catalog, but it wasn't one of the top matches of the year for me. Almost not even close, despite it def being great. Ishii vs Naito _(from New Beginning & Invasion Attack)_, vs KUSHIDA, & Honma are all better just from the Ishii list alone. Which speaks volumes about the year he's been having. And I'm pretty sure you'd flip out for Ishii vs Naito I. It's absurd.



Ishii vs Naito was excellent. Naito has this Miz like quality to him, in that within 5 seconds of seeing him I immediately have the overwhelming desire to punch him in the face. Except unlike Miz, Naito is capable of going full bore with someone who I'm coming to believe is one of the top 5 wrestlers in the entire world. That's right, the guy who I believe you so aptly described as "that egg shaped wonder" one time has become one of my most favorite guys to watch. He's just a sawed off, bowling ball of pain and punishment with a pissed off attitude and one of the gnarliest brain busters I've seen in ages. I like him, I really, really like Ishii. I like the gibberish he yells in his opponents face when pummeling them with forearms, and I really love the No-Sell stare down he does that has to just be completely demoralizing to anyone he faces. It's as if he's saying "is that the best you've got, junior? Well you can fuck right off with that shit, here eat a few more forearms while you're at it". So yea, just a TON to like with that egg shaped wonder Ishii. Have seen maybe 15-20 of his bouts so far and all of them I have fond memories of,


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Looks like we might get that 6 man with Ambrose/Reigns/Jericho-Rollins/Orton/Kane at NoC then.


----------



## SuperSaucySausages (Mar 15, 2014)

Darth Heyman trying to bring Cena to The Dark Side.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Sheamus vs Rollins? :mark: :mark:


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

DoubtGin said:


> Sheamus vs Rollins? :mark: :mark:


dat botch


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

I expected more from that.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Zayn on Raw? Fuck yeah :mark:


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Whoa Zayn & Neville vs Breeze & Kidd live on RAW.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao Is that really how they debuted Zayn, Breeze, and Neville? Takeover 2 has far better buildup than Night of Champions.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao Is that really how they debuted Zayn, Breeze, and Neville? Takeover 2 has far better buildup than Night of Champions.


They even get an own special that will air a day before Takeover.

Match was a good way to introduce all four (or three as Kidd didn't debut) and hype their upcoming match. Wonder when they will be a part of RAW for sure.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I caught Orton/Reigns and the NXT tag match from RAW. I liked everything about Orton/Reigns and I thought Reigns did a good job of keeping up with Orton. The post-match stuff was really good too. This is what our main event segments should be. Not the John Cena status quo.

But that NXT tag match. Oh man. Reminded me of those super fun matches you would see on Nitro that get the crowd popping. Really good stuff. Love seeing Neville and Zayn getting over instantly.


----------



## The Regent Alien. (Jul 26, 2014)

Only jerry springer could make the ballas segment even slightly bearable.
The bellas are as useful as a screen door on a submarine.

The only way the bellas can seem entertaining is as a guilty pleasure.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Missed Zayn's debut. Only watched the cage match, the main event and the Heyman/Cena segment. Didn't like either match. Jericho/Wyatt was a mess like most WWE cage matches and once again they didn't do Bray any favors with their booking. The only thing Jericho's return has done is show us that he's washed up. Orton/Reigns was dull outside of the final couple minutes. Seriously, can't remember if it was Rah who said it or Seabs, might even have been both, but these two could put together a good sprint. Unfortunately this company has the idea that their main eventers have to work 15+ minute matches. I thought their SummerSlam bout was solid but this was mediocre to its core. Reigns is starting to piss me off and I can't see it getting anything but worse in the coming months. At least they're doing a nice job with Rollins.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Orton/Reigns II was actually pretty good. Orton was crisp as usual. Love that Inverted backbreaker of his. Reigns hit all his big moves. Post match beat down was cool. Crowd is gonna lose their shit when Ambrose eventually returns. Jericho/Wyatt in the cage was enjoyable. Good to see Bray get a win. Also, can't wait for Neville and Zayn to get called up to the main roster.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Reigns/Orton was coma inducing. Awful match, awful ending... pretty good post-match beatdown though. But yeah, it was just lifeless for the whole match, we get a minute at the end where it looks to get interesting and then we get that DQ finish. 

NXT match was indeed super fun though. I said it in the Raw thread, but that one match sold me on watching NXT Takeover more than the past month of Raw/SD episodes have sold me on NOC. Neville was fucking awesome. Looking forward to the four way match for the NXT Title.

Oh, and I forgot about Wyatt/Jericho cage, but I too thought it was awful... not as bad as the main event, but still very mediocre. The ending as well did no favors for Wyatt, it almost looked like he fell out of the ring by accident. I wonder where Wyatt will go now? Don't think he'll be facing Jericho again.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I enjoyed Jericho/Wyatt. The feud didn't do much at all and wasn't even all that great, but they had solid matches. Nothing excellent, but solid stuff.

Orton/Reigns, again, had a super slow start and middle before a (somewhat) hot finish before the DQ. I enjoyed the Summerslam match more and I'm not even super high on that one.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Goodness Jericho has lost alot of steps in the ring. Even his usually career very on point timing through most of this run was off. All he really brought on the positive was great selling and only had two what I'd call good matches vs Orton on SD and I am one of few who thought Wyatt/Jericho was a pretty good match. Doesn't help any that for what it is worth, I personally felt that the little that Wyatt/Jericho (the lockeroom attack and the sitdown) came off well, but the two just didn't do too much unique which given Bray's ingenuity and Jericho's grand penchant for generating ideas, I wonder how handcuffed he was. Of course, Bray's gimmick opportunities are handcuffed in this era. The whole Wyatt family stock has just plummeted really since ER. Thank goodness Bray is a young talent because this man can be a cornerstone heel if invested in properly; right now that stock is LOW. While the beatdown was decent, I too felt that the Reigns beatdown was a missed opportunity. So glad to see my predicition of Zayn as next big thing could in fact materialize as already the Ole chants that were at least audible upon the big stage debut. PAC/Neville is one hell of an athlete and brings alot of energy. Always been high on him in ring with his versatile world experience and what fans haven't seen yet is the man when allowed can solidly mat wrestle. 

On a side note, if that Cena promo is true (pretty solid oromo albeit recurring but at least felt real), I'm not sure I could accept a wounded veteran's Purple Heart. I don't think I could take it even if he insisted but that would be pretty powerful in real time so easy for me to say behind a keyboard.

Edit: And I wonder why Bray just barely scraped by. Beating Bryan without BS in a fantastic barn burner did so much for Bray's stock chiefly because not only was it an eye opener but because it was decisive and against a champ. Jericho at this stage in the game is a midcarder with a HOF resume. It would of served booking so much better for Bray to dominate.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Cena feud really hurt Wyatt and Jericho hasn't helped him regain much/any of what he lost.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Wyatt felt like something new, fresh and different. 

Then the Cena feud happened. Now, whenever he cuts a promo talking about being the eater of worlds and whatnot, it's just empty words. He hasn't backed any of that up. I didn't even like the finish tonight. I would have had Wyatt destroy Jericho in that cage if this was Jericho's final appearance (although, he's advertised next week.)


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Holy shit got so excited that they did Zayn/Neville vs Kidd/Breeze on Raw. Hopefully more people start watching NXT because of it.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

WrestlingOracle said:


> Edit: And I wonder why Bray just barely scraped by. Beating Bryan without BS in a fantastic barn burner did so much for Bray's stock chiefly because not only was it an eye opener but because it was decisive and against a champ. Jericho at this stage in the game is a midcarder with a HOF resume. It would of served booking so much better for Bray to dominate.


'Cause they only made Bray look dominate over Bryan, because they wanted to feed Bray to Cena. Sad, really. Same role as everyone else. 

They'll right their wrongs with him eventually. I hope...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Heyman ruled. ZAYN on Raw was awesome. Skipped everything else.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well I just found out something from RAW & now I can't wait to see it tomorrow. Confident this knowledge affirms the edition as being the best RAW in history.

:zayn3


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Zayn appearing on Raw pretty much puts it above basically every other Raw for the last 6 months or so.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I lost my shit at the sight of Zayn on Raw, and the whole Tag was really fun - NEVILLE'S KICKS :zayn3

Heyman's promo was gold too and I enjoyed the end-show beatdown. Everything else, not completely horrible but nothing better than mediocre either. Jericho/Wyatt could've been worse (*coughCena/Wyattlevelsofbadcough*), Orton/Reigns was a lot of steps below SummerSlam and kinda average at best too, Jerry Springer only made the Bellas segment a few percent more bearable... what else was there on the show? Sheamus/Rollins dissapointed the fuck out of me too.

Well, at least this week was still better than the last two Raws. Even if that's not saying anything.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Saint Dick said:


> The Cena feud really hurt Wyatt and Jericho hasn't helped him regain much/any of what he lost.


I hate to say it but that Cena feud has borderline destroyed Wyatt. Ever since that horrific cage match I have no fucks to give. Yeah, the LMS was great and I was one of the few who enjoyed it but that doesn't change the fact that Wyatt is so lost right now. Working Jericho has done fuck all and you'd think they'd book him to go over a little stronger since Jericho is on his way out. I just don't have it in me to care about Bray much at all these days and that's pretty shameful considering how hot he was earlier this year. 

:mark: for the NXT guys on Raw. That was awesome and the perfect way to promote Takeover. I'm more hype for it now than I was before and Neville got a great reception. It was the perfect showcase for him and I reckon he'll drop the title to Zayn and be the next call up. I do worry about his mic skills but maybe he'll be Hardy or Mysterio-esque and get over without them. 

Orton/Reigns was....OK I guess. I haven't seen their Summerslam match yet but I just hope and pray Trips/Reigns is off the cards. Do. Not. Fucking. Want. Reigns isn't ready yet and truthfully I just don't want to see this match lol. That's the truth of it. I'd much rather see Trips/Ambrose. That's a much more natural story from everything that has happened so far. 

Springer seg was GOAT. :lmao Trash TV at its finest. Fuck people hating, I thought it was funny and then Springer went and broke his leg or whatever. Segment of the year. 

Decent Raw. Really hype for Takeover but not caring very much about NOC right now. At least Bork is there next week. Cena/Heyman was fine but it's the same promo from Cena all the time and Heyman is reaching that territory for me too now. Don't really care about their NOC match so long as Brock retains I'll be happy.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Little upset with Sheamus/Rollins, especially since this was a match I've been waiting to see since Rollins turned heel.

Hoping they have a match again on SD which rules.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao I'm browsing through the Sherdog forums and there's a thread about how Smackdown had greater viewership than both Bellator and UFC combined on Friday. The way that MMA fans are justifying this is by saying that WWE has a far better product than anything in MMA. :lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wow. MMA must be absolutely miserable if that's the case. Poor Anderson Silva, man.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Could be worse, could be the TNA of MMA







Outdated/useless stars, forced scripts and trying to ride the wave of a storyline in the big leagues. Never change, Bellator.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Well Bellator just went full pro wrestling with their Stephan Bonnar vs Tito Ortiz segment at the end :lmao There was a reveal of a masked man from Tito's past and a staged brawl broken up by officials. MMA purists were pissed :hayden3


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Okay, what's the general consensous on King Of The Ring 1996?

I personally think it may be the GOAT KOTR PPV. Even better than 1993. Austin gave Marc Mero his best match ever, then went on to win KOTR in convincing fashion against Jake The Snake and delievered the most memorable and epic promo arguably ever (Austin 3:16 says I just whooped your ass); Taker/Mankind was a certified CLASSIC; I didn't hate neither Gunns/Godwinns or Goldust/Ahmed; and of course, HBK/Bulldog was quite great too. Great show, really.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Ayyy, someone else mentioned the Rey/Kidman vs. WGTT 8/14/03 match that I always plug. Awesome stuff!



LilOlMe said:


> These two matches below solve the problem of not knowing what to do with certain people, and makes the most sense as far as feuds are concerned. I think that they're also the best possible combination of the people involved:
> 
> Orton/Seth vs. Ambrose/Reigns
> Wyatt Family vs. Jericho/Big Show/Mark Henry
> ...


Both of those matches would actually interest me more than most of the stuff they already have made for the card. I say go with em! Just don't put Kane in the match...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Okay, what's the general consensous on King Of The Ring 1996?
> 
> I personally think it may be the GOAT KOTR PPV. Even better than 1993. Austin gave Marc Mero his best match ever, then went on to win KOTR in convincing fashion against Jake The Snake and delievered the most memorable and epic promo arguably ever (Austin 3:16 says I just whooped your ass); Taker/Mankind was a certified CLASSIC; I didn't hate neither Gunns/Godwinns or Goldust/Ahmed; and of course, HBK/Bulldog was quite great too. Great show, really.


It had the great Mankind/Taker and the IMO great Smith/HBK, and of course a certain Austin moment.

All in all, excellent. 

But seriously, ill always praise Smith/HBK. Yeah there are a couple of 'botches' but idk, love it. Just love all of Bulldog's power moves, and how the match flows for the most part. Starting more on the mat, then getting more and more paced.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

When is Takeover? I need to watch the NXT tag from Raw. And the Bellas segment. :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> When is Takeover? I need to watch the NXT tag from Raw. And the Bellas segment. :mark:


Next Thursday I think. 

Going to Mero, I havn't seen that much of his work, but I'd say his best match, or certainly one of, is the one against Pillman. Think it was Fall Brawl, the one that goes into 'overtime'.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So MMA is starting to go scripted too? :lmao

Haven't watched any of Raw yet. Just read the results and was happy that Orton/Reigns had a non-finish instead of some bullshit clean loss again. This Raw is better than the past two weeks just by reading the results alone. The main event and Sheamus/Rollins have me interested so I'll check them out. Maybe the cage match too. Oh, can't forget about ZAYN!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Havn't yet watched Raw yet, but that Cena line about Taker sounds fucking atrocious tbh, Wether they are trying to 'sell a PPV' or not.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Watched the main event of Raw. Didn't much care for it, however I thought the aftermath was pretty crazy.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I thought Rollins was gonna get impaled during the main event segment :rollins

Can't wait for Ambrose to return at NoC (or the night after) to a glorious pop 8*D


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao I'm browsing through the Sherdog forums and there's a thread about how Smackdown had greater viewership than both Bellator and UFC combined on Friday. The way that MMA fans are justifying this is by saying that WWE has a far better product than anything in MMA. :lmao


lol if that's true, I wonder how shit the MMA stuff has gotten. :lmao

They've gone full pro wrestling with the scripted stuff in Bellator too. UFC is next, and then Joe Rogan will have to trash that. :cena6 



Saint Dick said:


> When is Takeover? I need to watch the NXT tag from Raw. And the Bellas segment. :mark:


This Thursday, I'm pretty sure.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The Fab Four said:


> Havn't yet watched Raw yet, but that Cena line about Taker sounds fucking atrocious tbh, Wether they are trying to 'sell a PPV' or not.


What did he say?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Takeover 2 is this Thursday. Here's the card:

*NXT Championship Match*
Adrian Neville (c) vs. Sami Zayn vs. Tyler Breeze vs. Tyson Kidd

*NXT Women’s Championship Match*
Charlotte (c) vs. Bayley

*NXT Tag Team Championship Match*
The Ascension (c) vs. Kalisto & Sin Cara

*Hair vs. Hair Match*
Enzo Amore vs. Sylvester LeFort

Mojo Rawley vs. Bull Dempsey


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

The Lady Killer said:


> What did he say?


Basically something like, "You beat Undertaker at WrestleMania and he hasn't been heard from in six months. You beat me at SummerSlam and I was back a week later, because I NEVER GIVE UP!" :cena4

Yeah, it made me face palm


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> What did he say?


Something like 'Lesnar beat Taker, so Taker just left", whereas i (Cena), lost to Lesnar and came back a week later, ready to fight and never give up.

Words to that effect i think. Havn't watched it myself yet though.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Jesus :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Jesus :lmao


Cena's stupidity makes me fpalm every week now, but this was unnecessary IMO. Im not saying he meant it in any bad terms (BURIED!), but it was a poor choice of words.

Heyman was apparently gold again at least.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I generally like Cena, but I hated his promo last night. Of course there had to be Make-A-Wish references, CHEER ME OR BOO ME I STILL LOVE YOU GUYS, and the whole "Eat, Sleep, Be John Cena" bit made me want to claw my eyes out. Heyman was good though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I respect what he does for charity, of course, like i do anyone else. But i just don't like the way he/WWE seems to use it against other wrestlers, like "Yeah well, i help kids, so".

I remember a hideous promo with Bryan some time ago where he said something like that, was bad.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Here you go, Johnny boy. Just for you:






Sorry for DP.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finally got done with Raw.

- Jericho/Wyatt was nothing special much like their other matches. Only memorable spot was the crossbody off the cage. Hopefully Orton attacking Jericho in the trainer's room is setting up for a one-on-one at NOC where we see a repeat of the events from 4 years ago.

- Heyman/Cena segment was good with excellent delivery, only thing is Cena's shtick fucking sucks and I want somebody to punch his lights out every time he goes on and on about "the kids" and his stupid "never give up" bullshit.

- Sheamus/Rollins was okay but the two should be capable of better in the future.

- NXT guys was fun to watch for the 3-4 minutes they got. That corkscrew splash is awesome.

- Orton/Reigns was whatever until the last couple of minutes when Orton started getting those nearfalls. Reigns having so much of the momentum sucks because all he can do is clotheslines. Enjoyed seeing him get the shit beat out of him post-match, though.

NOC should be Orton vs Jericho and Rollins & Kane vs Reigns and a returning Ambrose. Have the heels go over by some cheating so Ambrose then challenges Rollins to a cell match the night after on Raw.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Takeover 2 is this Thursday. Here's the card:
> 
> *NXT Championship Match*
> Adrian Neville (c) vs. Sami Zayn vs. Tyler Breeze vs. Tyson Kidd
> ...


Card looks fantastic. :mark:

Don't care for Mojo/Dempsey but the rest looks awesome. Could see the NXT title changing hands too. I like Neville but I get a feeling Zayn might take it. All four of those guys are great though.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Bayley winning the women's title will be the feel good moment of the year. Can't wait.

:bryan4


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

That Make-A-Wish stuff and the troops stuff shouldn't be used in promos on screen, IMO. It just comes across as pandering and begging for the babyface reaction. Does it work? Yeah, but I'm not a fan of it being used. Last night felt like a definitive "Cena won't turn heel" promo.

That Undertaker line too... so dumb.

Anyways, I re-watched the video of Austin's return from Backlash 2000. WWE has the ability to recreate that at Night of Champions with Ambrose saving Reigns from The Authority. That, or, WWE sets up Jericho & Reigns & surprise partner (Ambrose returning) vs. Orton & Rollins & Kane in a six-man tag. Jericho seems to be tied in with Orton now, who's also still tied in with The Authority vs. Reigns.

I also don't think Reigns is ready for that top push and if WWE is projecting him to main event Wrestlemania 31... yeah, they won't be pretty. With Bryan returning, they should do a slow build to Reigns/HHH at WM31 (or Reigns/Rock and Ambrose/HHH) and have Bryan vs. Lesnar for the title at WM31.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hopefully Undertaker comes back for one more WM match and destroys Cena for disrespecting him .

New BLOG~! stuff, check my sig .

Backlash 2006 is getting done tomorrow . If I get it done in one sitting when I first get up in the morning, I might try and get through Survivor Series as well, leaving me with just ARMAGEDDON to do in 2006!


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Has there been a worse segment than that Brie/Nikki Springer crap? Springer mocking the entire thing while being stretchered out was its only highlight. Well, that and Cole replying "which one?" when JBL said "Jerry Springer was born during World War 2".


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Is Rey Mysterio v Chavo Guerrero (Great American Bash, 6/27/04) really THAT good?

Is it one a comp, as i don't own the PPV.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well it's a Chabo match and I gave it ***3/4. So yeah, it kinda IS that good lol. No idea if its on a comp.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Seems it's on his 'Biggest Little Man' set. Must have missed it lol.

DANCE!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Had no idea it was on that set lol. God, what an awesome set that is. So many gems. My best friend bought it me for christmas one year. It's the only reason I still tolerate him :side:.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Fab Four said:


> Is Rey Mysterio v Chavo Guerrero (Great American Bash, 6/27/04) really THAT good?
> 
> Is it one a comp, as i don't own the PPV.



I have it at ****. Fucking excellent bout.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

TV MOTY thus far? Cesaro vs. Cena or Ambrose vs. Rollins?


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Cena-Cesaro easily. 

Top 5 would probably be 

5 Orton-Bryan Raw ***3/4
4 Shield-Wyatt's Main Event ****
3 Shield-Wyatt's Raw 3/3 ****
2 Ambrose-Rollins Raw ****1/4
1 Cena-Cesaro Raw ****1/2


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

TV MOTY:

10: Real Americans vs. Christian/Sheamus
9: The Wyatt Family vs. Cena/Ambrose/Reigns
8: Randy Orton vs. Cesaro
7: The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family (5/5)
6: The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family (Main Event)
5: John Cena vs. Cesaro
4: Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan
3: The Shield vs. Bryan/Sheamus/Cena
2: The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family (3/3)
1: Dean Ambrose vs. Seth Rollins

I know I'm missing something. Don't know what though.

EDIT: Silly me. How could I forget Ziggler/Barrett?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton vs Bryan is my easy TV MOTY. Only Cena vs Cesaro gives it a run for its money.

Just watched this title match between Orton and Triple H from the night after Backlash 2008. I don't know the follow-up to the angle but it was disappointing just when the match was getting _really_ good and Orton was in the crossface, Regal shows up in the production room and orders them to turn off the lights. Surprised they gave it so much time and definitely one of the better matches between Randal and Haitch that I've seen. Pretty good back and forth and a solid wrestling contest for a pairing that has often been hit and miss. Didn't even know this match existed as I figured Orton used his rematch clause at Judgment Day.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

How was the Jericho match last night?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

RatedR10 said:


> TV MOTY thus far? Cesaro vs. Cena or Ambrose vs. Rollins?



Cena/Cesaro for me, love that match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Wyatt/shield II or Cena/Cesaro for me 

I like the former a bit more though. Wyatt/shield main event and orton/Bryan deserve a nod


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

RIP Sean O'Haire


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Two more matches confirmed for Night of Champions:

Randy Orton vs. Chris Jericho
Roman Reigns vs. Seth Rollins

Obviously more lazy booking and I REALLY hope to god this Ambrose/Rollins feud is not gonna take a backseat to Reigns.

As of right now, the entire Wyatt Family is not booked for the PPV... 

I want Ambrose & Bryan back... 



RatedR10 said:


> TV MOTY thus far? Cesaro vs. Cena or Ambrose vs. Rollins?


Cena vs. Cesaro easily for me. Only thing I've seen that I'd rate ****+ from TV. Sleeper match that I really liked was a Sheamus/Del Rio/Ziggler 3-way from Main Event as well.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Two more matches confirmed for Night of Champions:
> 
> Randy Orton vs. Chris Jericho
> Roman Reigns vs. Seth Rollins


I'm pretty ok with this. It was the next best case scenario after the one I stated earlier for me.

I don't think that Reigns/Rollins is going to force Rollins/Ambrose to take a backseat. WWE knows what they have with Rollins/Ambrose. I think that this will just advance the latter feud. I doubt there's going to be a decisive victory here, or at least there shouldn't be.

Maybe this will be used to help setup the HHH/Reigns feud. I think that NOC is basically an advancer show for HIAC. I'm much more positive about the card now, though.


Bo Dallas/Swagger [Assumption for the pre-show]
Dust Brothers/Uso
Sheamus/Cesaro
Miz/Dolph
AJ/Paige/Nikki
Rusev/Henry
Reigns/Rollins
Orton/Jericho
Cena/Lesnar

Not a bad show as far as match quality is concerned. 

Uncertainty surrounding the main event is good, and Ambrose run-in will most definitely be good (though I'd still love to see him in a full match). 

Sandow's antics should at least make the Miz/Dolph match entertaining, though I doubt the match will be as good as their other matches together.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm definitely more interested in NOC now with the recent match set-ups.

Sheamus/Cesaro, Brock/Cena and Orton/Jericho are all gonna have my interest heading into the show.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

My interest in NOC is about the same as before... only Rollins/Reigns has my interest in seeing if Rollins can be the one to pull a great match out of Reigns. Considering he spent a long time with him as a partner (and I imagine helping Reigns out along the way), I'd imagine if anyone could do it and if Reigns has enough chemistry with anyone to get it done, it's Rollins. 

Jericho/Orton doesn't interest me in the slightest. It does make me think they're going with Brock/Orton for SVS and that is a-okay with me considering where SVS is. Should be a good match... but I doubt they wanted to make Orton look strong at Reigns' expense, and this way Orton can take Jericho out and look strong, which he'd need if he's facing Lesnar.


On top TV matches of the year, for me it'd be:

(****)
1) Wyatts vs. Shield Main Event 4/8
2) Cesaro vs. Cena Raw 2/17
3) Ambrose vs. Rollins Raw 8/18
4) Barrett vs. Sheamus Raw 4/21
(***3/4)
5) Barrett vs. Ziggler Raw 6/23
(***1/2)
6) Bryan-Cena-Sheamus vs. Shield Raw 1/27
7) Wyatt vs. Ambrose SD 6/13
8) Sandow vs. Cena Raw 1/13
9) Barrett vs. Ziggler Raw 4/14
10) Cesaro vs. Orton SD 2/15


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Could not care less about Jericho/Orton but it's better than Orton/Reigns again, and Orton needs a PPV win so whatever. Rollins/Reigns is a match that I want to see so long as Reigns doesn't win and the Rollins/Ambrose feud continues. Ambrose needs to get the big payoff. Fuck Reigns. The card looks pretty good from a match quality perspective though. I fully expect Cena and Lesnar to deliver again, Rusev/Henry could be a doozy, Sheamus/Cesaro is pretty much guaranteed to be good, and the two recently announced matches should at least be solid.


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

*WWE RAW 9/8*

Steel Cage Match: Chris Jericho vs Bray Wyatt ***1/4
Sheamus vs Seth Rollins *
Adrian Neville & Sami Zayn vs Tyson Kidd & Tyler Breeze **
Randy Orton vs Roman Reigns **1/2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Speaking of Mark Henry, I finally rewatched his steel cage match with Daniel Bryan from 2011 for the first time since it aired. Still a fantastic match and on par with Brock/HHH for the best cage matches in the last few years unless I'm forgetting a specific match. Great heel performance by Henry with his weak spot (ankle) sold pretty well and Bryan is and excellent underdog try to use his speed to escape as well as use his expertize in submissions to make Mizark submit.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

How did you forget Orton/Christian?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Damn, I'm ashamed of myself for forgetting that. That one is definitely the best. I guess my best explanation is it got lost in the shuffle recently as I've been going through all these Orton matches that I have downloaded from that huge XWT pack.

Sadly, a few matches just refuse to download. Still can't get the chamber match from this year to start no matter how many times I've re-downloaded the torrent and laugh at me if you want, Orton/Miz from Royal Rumble keeps getting stuck at 30%.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Does anyone have links to all the Ambrose/Rollins FCW matches? I use to have the pack XWT had but my computer got wiped and I'm not seeing it on XWT anymore


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Does anyone have links to all the Ambrose/Rollins FCW matches? I use to have the pack XWT had but my computer got wiped and I'm not seeing it on XWT anymore


They are all on YT. 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPuGmmEFsC-wAK6V55J0aeR-kzh8XLC_O


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Orton/Jericho at NOC does fuck all for me. Rollins/Reigns though? It's like Lesnar/Cena - my liking of it completely depends on the outcome. If Reigns wins clean, FUCK. THIS. COMPANY. They just tamed the return of their most over star currently not counting Bryan and it fucking sucks.



#BadNewsSanta said:


> (****)
> 1) Wyatts vs. Shield Main Event 4/8
> 2) Cesaro vs. Cena Raw 2/17
> 3) Ambrose vs. Rollins Raw 8/18
> ...


Speaking to you as a fellow Barrett mark, I actually thought that their MITB qualifier match was better than the April sprint. Don't get me wrong, I marked the fuck out for Barrett's victory in April and I ughed for LOLSHEAMUSBEATSWADEAGAIN, but in terms of quality, the MITB match was actually better imo. It was more physical, very resembling of a Regal/Benoit/Finlay fight w/plenty of the typical Sheamus/Barrett elements incorporated, and had the crowd in the palm of its hands again.

If I had to pick the top 10 TV MOTY so far:

(****1/4)
1) Cena vs. Cesaro, Raw 2/17
2) Rollins vs. Ambrose, Raw 8/18
3) Shield vs. Wyatts, Main Event 4/8
(****)
4) Shield vs. Wyatts, Raw 3/3
5) Orton vs. Bryan, Raw 2/3
(***3/4)
6) Shield vs. Wyatts, Raw 5/5
7) Barrett vs. Ziggler, Raw 6/23
(***1/2)
8) Sheamus vs. Barrett, Raw 6/9
9) Shield vs. Real Americans, Raw 3/24
10) Sheamus & Christian vs. Real Americans, Raw 3/24


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Sheamus is a boss hoss.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Backlash 2006*

The last Raw only PPV for me to watch in 2006, and from memory, this is actually a good one!

Lol, right behind the Spanish Announcers, there is a group of 4 slutty looking women all drinking beer. Wonder how rowdy they get towards the end of the night!!! 


*Chris Masters Vs Carlito*

Were WWE selling apples at events to try and make some money from Carlito now that he was a babyface?  They sure as fuck try to sell everything else as merch!

Masters is impressive early on, punching Carlito in the face (which is ALWAYS cool), and launching him into the air for a huge back body drop.

Carlito puts on a Masterlock on Masters, who just breaks free with ease and looks at Carlito like he's a fucking retard :lmao.

POWERBOMB INTO THE TURNBUCKLE~!

"POOP DOGG" sign :lmao.

REST HOLD~!

Carlito makes a comeback, nothing worth talking about though other than he does continue to sell his neck that was injured after the powerbomb, so that's something.

MISSED MOONSAULT~! But Masters has to act like it hit anyway, poor guy .

Carlito cheats to win. Some babyface...

Nothing worth seeing here tbh.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Maria and her TITS talking about the triple threat tonight. FAP.

LITA SHOWS UP TOO. FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP. 


*Umaga Vs Ric Flair*

Oh look, ANOTHER Umaga PPV match before Cyber Sunday. That's 2. JR WAS WRONG. DOUBLE WRONG. BAH GAWD.

Umaga is just too big and powerful for Flair to do anything against, so he has to resort to being the DIRTIEST PLAYER IN THE GAME~! Thumb to the eye and 2 low blows... but even THAT isn't enough to stop the SAMOAN BULLDOZER YOUMANGA!

Umaga knows only one direction, and it's forward. Flair can use this to his advantage by moving out of the way from time to time, avoiding certain hits and even sending Umaga head first into the ring post!

Not the smarted move though, because Umaga IS Samoan after all, and his head is thicker than the average TNA fan 8*D.

SAMOAN SPIKE~! This is over.

Fun squash.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


:lmao Vince backstage mocking religion. Awesome :lmao. Bread and fish flying everywhere :lmao. SHANE'S WATER TURNED INTO WINE!!!


*Mickie James Vs Trish Stratus - WWE Women's Championship Match*

:lmao just look at the match image for this one:










Their match at NYR was great. Their match at WM was great. Their match here... disappointing .

Matrix into a headscissors :mark:. That was fucking awesome!!!

THEZ PRESS OFF THE APRON~!

Trish is taking the fight to Mickie, because she needs her title back!

Trish gets dumped off the ropes to the floor, and OUCH, she puts her arm on the apron to break her fall and it bends BACKWARDS. And this is unfortunately why the match is disappointing. Trish is legit injured .

Mickie gets herself DQ'd and this one is done. Such a shame poor Trish got hurt . This could have been another great match. Everything up to the injury was really damn good though!

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


Maria and her TITS interviewing HBK.


*Shelton Benjamin Vs RVD - Money in the Bank & WWE Intercontinental Championship Match*

The winner of this gets the IC belt AND the MITB Briefcase!!!

With they'd defend the briefcase more these days. When was the last time it was done? Cena/Ziggler TLC 2012? Hopefully by the time this makes it onto Wrestling View, we'll have had Rollins Vs Ambrose with the briefcase on the line :mark:.

No Shelton's MOMMA cos she had a heart attack or something to get her off TV . Could you imagine if Shelton won the MITB briefcase here and won the WWE title with his MOMMA in his corner? :mark:

These guys are going all out from the get go, flipping around and hitting some impressive moves. SUNSET FLIP POWERBOMB ON THE FLOOR~!

Shelton is nice and aggressive now he has RVD on the ropes after the powerbomb. Using submissions that focus on the back, then the moment RVD looks to try and escape, Shelton lets go and just pounds the fuck out of RVD to soften him up for yet another submission.

ROLLING THUNDER INTO A SAMOAN DROP~! Yeah, that ruled.

KICK TO THE FACE~!

So RVD is making his comeback and... hits a rolling thunder. After he'd has his BACK worked over the entire match. FFS RVD.

Frog Splash misses, and RVD gets fucking murdered with a DDT :mark:.

RVD's kick to Shelton's face earlier was sweeeet... and Shelton returns the favour with an even better kick to the face!!!

Another babyface cheats to win, as RVD kicks the Briefcase into Shelton's face to set up the Frog Splash.

Fun match, shame about RVD's inability to sell.

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Kane Vs The Big Show*

Oh, the May 19th storyline :lmao.

:lmao Lawler talks about how it's an unwritten rule in wrestling that you never try to cause anyone loss of their sight. DID YOU FORGET ABOUT TERRY FUNK?!?! 

Was hoping for a clash of giants here but... instead we get more of a wrestling match. Not quite the wrestling match they had on Raw around this time that was FUN AS FUCK lol, but more of a "work the arm" type wrestling match which is not as fun . I WANT TO SEE THEM HIT EACH OTHER IN THE FACT DAMMIT.

BIG SHOW TRIES TO ATTACK KANE'S EYE~!

ROH sign in the crowd.

Lol, red light and Kane's own voice plays, talking about May 19th :lmao. This is some serious shit :lmao.

Kane loses it and starts smashing himself in the face, so Big Show smacks him over the head with a chair to... calm him down? :lmao

:lmao this is trash.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Candice Michelle backstage with Vince and she's having an orgasm from him touching her :lmao. God McMahon was awesome.


*Shawn Michaels & God Vs Vince & Shane McMahon - No Holds Barred Match*

:lmao Vince booked GOD in a tag match :lmao.

MCMAHONISM~!

:lmao at the bit in the church where Vince tells God to strike him down if he's wrong... and Shane slowly backs away from him :lmao. I miss Shane.

:lmao at Lillian Garcia trying to no laugh at God's entrance :lmao.

:lmao Vince cutting a promo on God :lmao.

:lmao God's theme music is a version of The Cat/Brodus Clay's music :lmao.

:lmao Vince tells the referee to check God to make sure he doesn't have any weapons :lmao.

Vince makes the match No Holds Barred!!!

:lmao at HBK's music interrupting Vince, and Shane just starts dancing to the music :lmao.

This is already like, the greatest thing ever :lmao.

Vince is gonna send Shawn and God straight to HELL!!! So Shawn slaps the shit out of Vince :lmao.

Shane looking to piledrive Shawn off the stage :mark:. Bah, Shawn counters .

Poor Shane. He has no luck with his head and stage pieces. Shawn just smashed his face into a metal part of the Backlash set . At least it wasn't glass! 

HBK crossbodies himself into Vince and they both go crashing off the stage!!! :mark:

Man, God is pretty fucking useless in this match. He's just stood on the apron watching as Shawn does all the work. Typical.

CHAIR TO HBK'S FACE~!

BLOOD~!

ARM DRAG INTO THE BARRICADE~!

Shane rubbing it in the face of God by climbing the turnbuckle where God is standing. ELBOW DROP~! SHAWN MOVED~! I wonder if he can make the hot tag!

God continues to stand by as Vince and Shane destroy HBK.

Vince on the mic again :lmao. He wants to know what God is gonna do about the fact they are demolishing Shawn.

OMG GOD WALKS OUT ON SHAWN~! What an evil bastard! He just left Shawn high and dry!

:lmao at Vince's attempt at a Superkick :lmao.

HBK making a comeback! I guess God walking out on him has really motivated the Showstopper!

Shane hits his own dad in the head with a chair!!!

ELBOW DROP TO SHANE~!

SUPERKICK TO SHANE~!

SUPERKICK TO VINCE~!

Looks like HBK didn't need God at all! 

It's time. It's time. It's... TABLE TIME!!!

LADDER~! Vince and Shane are on the tables, Shawn is on top of a giant ladder! Then the male cheerleaders show up to ruin everything so Shawn dives off the ladder onto them!!!

It's now 7 on 1 (because God abandoned HBK LOL). The Spirit Squad do that lifting move they do and throw Shawn about 10 feet in the air, dropping him through a table!

Vince pins Shawn. VINCE AND SHANE HAVE A VICTORY OVER GOD~! :lmao

So while the premise of this match on paper sounds retarded, with a make believe character as Shawn's tag partner... it's actually a really good match! Vince and Shane destroy Shawn, Shawn is a great FIP, and there is a lot of good to be found here.

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


So apparently Maria and her TITS are too busy so Todd Grisham is left to interview Cena. His TITS aren't nearly as good.


Matt Striker comes out to teach us. He's billed as being from "the classroom" :lmao. He brings out Eugene. He challenges Eugene to spell his own name. Instead, Eugene writes "loves poop" under Striker's name on the chalkboard. So Eugene just proved he can't spell his own name :lmao. And now Eugene has a booger. And he's planning to eat it. He shoves it in Striker's mouth instead then Stuns him :lmao. The fuck was the point of this segment?


*John Cena Vs Edge Vs Triple H - WWE Championship Match*

Edge fucks off to the outside and tells HHH and Cena to go at it. They seem to like this idea and punch each other in the face .

Edge laughs, and HHH and Cena decide to punch HIM in the face. Then I laugh .

SPEAR TO CENA WHILE HE WAS HOLDING UP HHH FOR AN F-U~!

DDT ON THE TABLE TO HHH~! Huh, I always remembered that spot resulting in HHH being busted open, and him blading as he was taking the DDT so it looked like his head got busted open from the table. But he actually bladed from a ring post shot right before.

STFU TO EDGE~! He's about to tap, but HHH shows up and grabs Edge's arm, then smacks Cena in the head with a microphone :lmao.

Damn, HHH's blade job is insane. His face is covered in blood and dripping like fuck. STFU TO HHH~!

:lmao at HHH screaming as he rises up off the mat and makes a dive for the ropes :lmao. UUURRRGGGHHHHHHHH!!!

So, HHH is in the STFU AGAIN, and Edge, being the smart guy he is... instead of GETTING IN THE RING AND BREAKING THE HOLD, decides to CLIMB THE ROPES. What a Rated R for Retard.

HHH just gave Lita a Spinebuster. WHAT A CUNT.

HHH grabs the chair and throws it away. He don't need no chair. He needs a SLEDGEHAMMER~!

SPEAR TO THE GAME~!

:lmao Cena wins with a ROLLUP :lmao.

Pretty good triple threat, even with the typical formula.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 9.5*​


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wow, according to Cal, the best 2006 Raw PPV is... New Year's Revolution. Ok, seems legit :lol.

Thank fuck someone else loathes Kane/Show from that PPV btw.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think I might agree with Cal there. Maybe take it a step further. Every PPV this year is better than all the RAW PPVs of 2006. Even Battleground.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Was shocked too when I put in the CAL SCALE rating in my excel document and saw that NYR was higher than Backlash :lmao. Then again, HHH/Show, Lawler/Helms and Mickie/Trish and Shelton/Viscera all combine to make a better show than Shelton/RVD, HBK & God/McMahons and Cena/HHH/Edge .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I think I might agree with Cal there. Maybe take it a step further. Every PPV this year is better than all the RAW PPVs of 2006. Even Battleground.


No way would I say Battleground and Payback were better than Backlash '06, they're about on par w/NYR and dare I say Unforgiven for me too. But whatevs, OPINIONS.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

In regards to Trips bleeding like a sieve when he blades, I'm almost positive he takes a whole handful of aspirin before he goes out. When he blades his blood is so thin it runs like water down his head and doesn't clot. Say what you want about the game, but I can't think of a single time he did a bad blade job. When he had color in his matches he always wore the full crimson mask. 

Now I feel like a total sicko for noticing that


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

ATF said:


> Speaking to you as a fellow Barrett mark, I actually thought that their MITB qualifier match was better than the April sprint. Don't get me wrong, I marked the fuck out for Barrett's victory in April and I ughed for LOLSHEAMUSBEATSWADEAGAIN, but in terms of quality, the MITB match was actually better imo. It was more physical, very resembling of a Regal/Benoit/Finlay fight w/plenty of the typical Sheamus/Barrett elements incorporated, and had the crowd in the palm of its hands again.


I thought the MITB qualifier between them was great as well, and would probably be #11 or 12 on my list along with Bryan/Orton, but it didn't hold a candle to the IC Title tournament match for me. The latter had so much going for it, the cherry on top being Barrett actually winning, where MITB qualifier was more of what I've come to expect from Barrett/Sheamus. However, in all fairness I do need to re-watch the MITB qualifier to get a clearer picture of it as I've only seen it once.


Yeah, when HHH bleeds, he fucking BLEEDS. 

Also, I remember HBK/God vs. The McMahons being hilarious... the whole feud being ridiculously funny. Vince doing the holy water version of HHH's water spit was hilarious. :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just reminded myself of the SVS card for 06. Urgh . Might not have the energy to sit through it in one go lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

That show is even worse than it sounds, Cal.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Survivor Series 2006 is horrendous. But it's still not as bad as the last two SVS shows we've got and that's an accomplishment in itself.

Backlash 2006 is easily better than most PPVs this year, it's just ff non-sense again putting down 2006 to big up the recent years. Unforgiven is also better than Battleground, MITB and Payback just to name a few.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I wish they didn't mix SD/Raw/ECW guys in the elimination matches. Would have preferred a Raw elimination match, SD elimination match and if need be an ECW elimination match. That way we would at least have gotten an awesome, uber-talent filled SD elimination tag on the show .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Woah, SVS 2012 and 2013 were FAR better than the DUDfest that was SVS 2006. At least those shows had a bunch of really good/great matches (2012 had the opening SVS tag, Sheamus/Show and Punk/Cena/Ryback; 2013 had the opening SVS tag and Team BITW/Wyatts, and to a degree Cena/ADR even if it was a HIAC copy-paste), whereas 2006 had a good Taker/Kennedy, a decent Benoit/Chavo and fuck everything else. Opinions are all different but in that aspect don't let bias speak louder than words, C2D.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Bias? There's no bias here.

Everything in Survivor Series from 2013 SUCKED. At best, we got a below average match here or there but the show was garbage otherwise. Only highlight is Randy Orton in the main event which is always good to me. But that is tainted by the Big Slug stinking up the match. 2012 is just awful and I don't even remember what the opening tag was which means it just wasn't memorable enough. Only good things about that show are Sheamus/Show and The Shield debuting.

Benoit/Chavo and Taker/Kennedy are better than any match on both cards except maybe Sheamus/Show and that itself is far inferior to their HIAC masterpiece.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Also, I remember HBK/God vs. The McMahons being hilarious... the whole feud being ridiculously funny. Vince doing the holy water version of HHH's water spit was hilarious. :lmao


*:lmao best part of that whole feud was before the actual match and Vince gave God an entrance and told him to "get jiggy with it." and then does this goofy dance to the music. Jesus, Vince is a riot sometimes. 

EDIT: The triple threat match with HHH/Edge/Cena is one of my personal favorites, especially because HHH (who bled buckets that match) went apeshit after the match.*


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wow, impressive how you didn't like either Punk & Bryan/Wyatts or Usos, Mysterio & Rhodes/Shield & Real Americans from 2013. And I can understand why would you say 2012 sucked (though you have to watch the opening tag, it's really fun), but both that and Sheamus/Show (and the Triple Threat too) are quite superior to Taker/Kennedy and Benoit/Chavo as far as I'm concerned. Hell, Orton/Show was a better ME than Batista/Booker, even if that's comparing two giant turds w/each other. 2006 was just Godawful imo.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

SVS 2013 had the great Punk/Bryan vs. Harper/Rowan match at least. SVS 2012's main event was actually pretty good. SVS 2006... I don't know what the fuck it had.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Probably be continuing my Nitro viewing later, onto the 06.28.1997 - WCW Saturday Nitro. Which was effectively a house show, although i think it was shown on the WCW website, or at least commentary for it was lol.

Couple of things i know happened, Piper faced Flair and Jericho won the cruiserweight title. They could have done these on the normal Monday Nitro two days later TBH.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Cesaro's new submission move, btw.


edit: Apparently, he's used it against Cena already; still, I guess now it is some kind of finisher.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DoubtGin said:


> Cesaro's new submission move, btw.
> 
> 
> edit: Apparently, he's used it against Cena already; still, I guess now it is some kind of finisher.



Eh, that's not what I pictured for Çesaro. I'm THRILLED he has a submission, as I have always thought that would suit him best, but I REALLY wanted him to use either the Chicken Wing ala Bob Backlund, the Cobra Clutch, or the torture rack.

The one he has isn't so bad, I just wanted one that would show off his strength better.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I don't think I ever saw Punk/Bryan v Harper/Rowan. Gonna watch that sometime this week for sure.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Does anyone have Moxley/Danielson from Way of the Ronin 2010?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

These damn Nitro's endings. Hennig and Raven just debuted, right at the end of the episode.

"We gotta go". Makes you tune it next week at least.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Followed the promotion religiously in 2009/2010 and it seems that's the only show I don't have.

Scoured all my hard drives but I did find some treasures. Amongst them an FCW live show recording of Ambrose wrestling Punk for I assume 15+ minutes which I haven't seen in forever. Then another house show from AJPW that is main evented by FLAIR AND FUNK. Motherfucker.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Rah said:


> Followed the promotion religiously in 2009/2010 and it seems that's the only show I don't have.
> 
> Scoured all my hard drives but I did find some treasures. Amongst them an FCW live show recording of Ambrose wrestling Punk for I assume 15+ minutes which I haven't seen in forever. Then another *house show from AJPW that is main evented by FLAIR AND FUNK. Motherfucker.*


You got my attention :lelbron


Found a really good flair/steamboat from 82 off of YT, YT is a goldmine for NWA/Flair stuff tbh


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rah said:


> Followed the promotion religiously in 2009/2010 and it seems that's the only show I don't have.
> 
> Scoured all my hard drives but I did find some treasures. Amongst them an FCW live show recording of Ambrose wrestling Punk for I assume 15+ minutes which I haven't seen in forever. Then another house show from AJPW that is main evented by FLAIR AND FUNK. Motherfucker.


Is that the 2/3 Falls match?


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Eh, that's not what I pictured for Çesaro. I'm THRILLED he has a submission, as I have always thought that would suit him best, but I REALLY wanted him to use either the Chicken Wing ala Bob Backlund, the Cobra Clutch, or the torture rack.
> 
> The one he has isn't so bad, I just wanted one that would show off his strength better.


While I think the torture rack particularly in WWE has become oversaturated and Cesaro has a strange body for the torture rack, a torture rack into the UFO would be SICK. Would love Cesaro to use the chickenwing, as I love the unique blend of aggression and technicality the move brings. I think a good solid bearhug would be a good one for Cesaro albeit the bearhug is a bit cheesy this day and age and Rowan has the best BH in the business. I dont think anyone is using the chickenwing outside of HHH as a regular move and rarely Ambrose.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rah said:


> Followed the promotion religiously in 2009/2010 and it seems that's the only show I don't have.
> 
> Scoured all my hard drives but I did find some treasures. Amongst them an FCW live show recording of Ambrose wrestling Punk for I assume 15+ minutes which I haven't seen in forever. Then another *house show from AJPW that is main evented by FLAIR AND FUNK. Motherfucker*.


October '81?


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Survivor Series 2006 has my favorite squash match ever in the Team DX vs. Team Rated RKO match. The whole thing is just hilarious to watch and I was a huge fan of Orton and Edge at the time. 



Choke2Death said:


> Speaking of Mark Henry, I finally rewatched his steel cage match with Daniel Bryan from 2011 for the first time since it aired. Still a fantastic match and on par with Brock/HHH for the best cage matches in the last few years unless I'm forgetting a specific match. Great heel performance by Henry with his weak spot (ankle) sold pretty well and Bryan is and excellent underdog try to use his speed to escape as well as use his expertize in submissions to make Mizark submit.


I should watch this again as I remember loving it. Bryan is and has been my favorite wrestler for a while and when he finally gave the impression that he could pull off a win I remember getting super excited even though logically him winning would make no sense. 



Oh I was on youtube and I came across this:






When and where was this? Like there is a ref with a whistle writing down rule infractions, the fans aren't speaking Englsih and it's all very confusing. I'm thinking Germany right?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*IYH Unforgiven 1998:*

Nation of Domination vs Farooq, Steve Blackman & Ken Shamrock - ★★
Undertaker vs Kane (Inferno Match) - ★★½
Stone Cold vs Dude Love - ★★★½

Will maybe watch Owen vs Triple H tomorrow. Austin vs Vince is really starting to pick up. The Rock is about to breakthrough. The new DX is starting to show itself. Undertaker is about to head towards the Ministry of Darkness gimmick. Things are exciting. :mark:

Watching SummerSlam 1999 last year had me paranoid about the Attitude Era thinking I will be slow with progressing through the years but after finishing 1997, I've picked it back up and already about to enter May in 1998. Just fun, fun stuff.

EDIT: @Taylor - You should watch it. It's up on youtube in HD and is pretty short. One of Mizark's highlights in his awesome title run. Also an early sign of things to come for Bryan.

Re: Benoit/Finlay match. I don't think it's in Germany because from listening to the fans near the camera, they sound more Spanish or something like that. Possibly Mexico.


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

The Fab Four said:


> These damn Nitro's endings. Hennig and Raven just debuted, right at the end of the episode.
> 
> "We gotta go". Makes you tune it next week at least.


:lmao Yeah, they're horrid. Probably a result of the shows still being written while on the air.

Fuckin Tony Schiavone.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

DoubtGin said:


> Cesaro's new submission move, btw.
> 
> 
> edit: Apparently, he's used it against Cena already; still, I guess now it is some kind of finisher.


Is that Zack Ryder Cesaro's making tap out? :lol


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Yeah, I recognized that submission hold. He did it in his recent match with Cena last month, IIRC.

After "fantasy booking" an Ambrose return, which is similar to the ending of Backlash 2000, I have the urge to watch that PPV now. But, my Paul Heyman blu-ray is here.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> *IYH Unforgiven 1998:*
> 
> Nation of Domination vs Farooq, Steve Blackman & Ken Shamrock - ★★
> Undertaker vs Kane (Inferno Match) - ★★½
> ...


I'm surprised that you didn't like the main event or the Inferno match even more. For what the stipulation was, they did a very good job. That leap of faith by Taker was a beauty. I'm afraid I have some bad news regarding your presumption about Undertaker's direction though. Main event ruled. Felt like a big time main event fight. The segment where Austin and McMahon were gonna battle but Foley saved Vince might be the best segment ever on RAW. And that's coming from me.

Owen vs. Triple H from what I recall had a very stupid premise. You might like the match, but I don't recall anything significantly good happening. Be prepared to watch a terrible PPV in Over the Edge after this, but the RAWs building up to it are fun.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I too really like the Inferno match, Kane dominates a heavy part of it and does a good job of so but it's still *NOT* a one-sided bout like WM14.

Edit: Forgot the not


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I really like Kane/Taker from WM XIV. I remember very little about the Inferno match. Might need to check back on that.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If I was to make an educated guess on when that Benoit/Finlay match is from, I'd possibly say it's the Fit Finlay vs. Chris Benoit (Vienna Handheld 8/18/91) match, just going by what I have in terms of old Benoit/Finlay footage . Other options where a CWA match or a NJPW match, but given the language we can here people speak, those don't seem as viable options .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

CWA was a German/Austrian promotion, could be that one.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Learn something new every day .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I'm surprised that you didn't like the main event or the Inferno match even more. For what the stipulation was, they did a very good job. That leap of faith by Taker was a beauty. I'm afraid I have some bad news regarding your presumption about Undertaker's direction though. Main event ruled. Felt like a big time main event fight. The segment where Austin and McMahon were gonna battle but Foley saved Vince might be the best segment ever on RAW. And that's coming from me.
> 
> Owen vs. Triple H from what I recall had a very stupid premise. You might like the match, but I don't recall anything significantly good happening. Be prepared to watch a terrible PPV in Over the Edge after this, but the RAWs building up to it are fun.


The inferno match was solid, but a bit boring at points so I gave it a 'decent' rating which is what being above 2 and below 3 indicates. Definitely better than expected with the stipulation and all.

Enjoyed the main event quite a bit but the middle portion was a bit dull when Austin was in the body-scissors for over a minute when Vince showed up. Started off good and finishing stretch was awesome. Only watched the finish of Owen/HHH and thought the bit with Chyna escape the cage was funny.

I'm used to the PPVs being mostly terrible, I know Austin/Foley II is a classic as I've seen it before. But the Raw shows are non-stop fun, mostly promos but I've not yet transitioned into being one of those who is "Match Only" and disregards anything else.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So tonight is NXT Takeover II. Me is excited. Moreso than for NOC tbh.

- Ascension will finally lose the Tag Titles, thank God.
- Charlotte/Bayley should be good.
- KENTA's debut will be intriguing to say the least.
- The Fatal 4-Way I'm looking very ansiously forward.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

I wonder if the Ascension will be faces or heels (they worked as faces at the latest house show against Kofi and Big E, I think). I guess it depends on whether the Usos or Stardust/Goldust win the titles at NoC.

They are pretty boring, to be honest, because they never had a really competitive match so far, as far as I know.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Really hope the four way delivers.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Ascension were so awesome when Kenneth Cameron was there. I haven't really been able to get into them since he left but I still sort of like them...sometimes. I definitely say Neville is losing the title to either Breeze or Zayn before a call up. That match on Raw was a Neville showcase so it all seems about the right time to progress him further. I watched both Breeze/Zayn and Charlotte/Natalya from Takeover 1 yesterday, first wrestling matches I've actually gone out of my way to put on in ages and loved the both of them. These NXT specials always feel so much bigger than actual PPVs it's ridiculous. I think for NOC we've decided to play the Network bingo game or the Cole bingo game. Either way I need to make sure I have a decent supply of shots available before the show starts. I'm actually looking forward to ENZO DA GOAT most of all later on. The guy is gold lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll download the 4 way if Zayn wins . Not that interested in seeing it otherwise. Zayn is the only guy in the match I like.

Half way into Survivor Series 2006. Taking a break . Already surpassed Cyber Sunday by 0.5, so it won't finish up as the worst show of the year or anything . And with Taker/Kennedy up next, I'm sure it'll get a few more points which will put it ahead of Vengeance and Unforgiven .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone stuck for a match to watch:



Love this match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cal, why are you reviewing Rugrats, isn't that a cartoon from the 90's? What the hell are you doing?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I reviewed the GAME based on the show, but yes, it's a cartoon from the 90's .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Oh. You reviewed the GAME. I guess that makes it better then :side:.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Pipe down. He did not review The Game :hhh2


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

About to watch HBK vs Y2J @ Unforgiven. Next to their ladder match later on, this was the ppv match from their feud I was excited about the most. Hopefully the TV matches they have will deliver as well.

I can definitely see why this feud is praised that much. Their first two PPV matches were really solid, as well.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just watched Rey/Jericho from ER. Loved it, these two had damn good chemistry. Loved that finish with the mask, thought they made a great feud out of the importance of the mask *1999 never happened right :side:

Need to rewatch the Bash match soon, which I find damn near fucking perfect tbh.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

ATF said:


> So tonight is NXT Takeover II. Me is excited. Moreso than for NOC tbh.
> 
> - Ascension will finally lose the Tag Titles, thank God.
> - Charlotte/Bayley should be good.
> ...


BRUH

:enzo


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just trying to catch up on some matches I need to watch, moving onto the Backlash 2007 four way next.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I really like the Backlash 4-way. Think it's the highest rated fatal four way I've ever had, even about the '97 one.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brye said:


> I really like the Backlash 4-way. Think it's the highest rated fatal four way I've ever had, even about the '97 one.


To be fair, the 1997 "Final Four" bout was worked different as it was an over the top rope elimination deal. Even still, the Vader/Austin/Taker/Bret (Just look at that lineup!) match remains my favorite 4 way ever. 4 guys who can all brawl just going at it outside the ring for about 20 minutes of sheer pandemonium. Vader was bleeding like a sieve too, and I believe it was hard way as blading was still outlawed at that time.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh you are fucking kidding me, right?

I mean seriously. This is a joke. It HAS to be.

Booker/Batista is MAIN EVENTING SURVIVOR SERIES. As in, the last fucking match. Over Team Cena Vs Team Big Show, both of whom hold the WWE and ECW titles respectively. Over Undertaker who is just like fucking GOD. Over Lita's retirement match even. ENDING THE SHOW WITH LITA'S UNDERWEAR GETTING SOLD OFF WOULD HAVE BEEN A BETTER FUCKING DECISION.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> To be fair, the 1997 "Final Four" bout was worked different as it was an over the top rope elimination deal. Even still, the Vader/Austin/Taker/Bret (Just look at that lineup!) match remains my favorite 4 way ever. 4 guys who can all brawl just going at it outside the ring for about 20 minutes of sheer pandemonium. Vader was bleeding like a sieve too, and I believe it was hard way as blading was still outlawed at that time.


It was definitely a great match. (Y) I was really impressed with how it worked the first time I saw it. 

Also :lmao at that Booker/Batista match. Most underwhelming thing ever.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

You're not going to NO any World Title matches anyways, are you? So you HAVE TO watch Booker vs Batista. 

Raw after IYH Unforgiven begins with DX invading WCW. Here comes the Nation now and Rock's awesome theme is the one playing for them.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I know I have to watch it anyway, but who the FUCK thought ending the PPV with a match 100% GUARANTEED TO SUCK BALLS would be a good idea? :lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Maybe there were people who didn't think the match would suck balls. Wrong thinking after all 8*D.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Survivor Series 2006*

Well... time to get this out of the way so I can finish 2006 PPV's with ARMAGEDDON.


*Ric Flair, Dusty Rhodes, Ron Simmons & Sgt Slaughter Vs Kenny, Johnny, Nicky & Mikey - Traditional Survivor Series Elimination Match*

A bunch of old men vs male cheerleaders.

ARN ANDERSON in the corner of the legends :mark:.

Mitch is stuck on the outside for the Spirit Squad. LOL.

Piper was supposed to be in this match, but was replaced by Simmons when Piper was diagnosed with cancer and needed surgery.

Simmons starting things off :mark:. I don't think all 5 members of the Spirit Squad combined can match the POWER of Ron Simmons.

POWERSLAM~!

SIMMONS TAKING OUT THE ENTIRE SPIRIT SQUAD~!

Mitch trips Simmons up, so Simmons chases him and gets counted out . ARN smashes Mitch into the ring post, Simmons gives him a Spinebuster, and the referee kicks Mitch out for tripping up Ron!

Bah, Anderson gets sent to the back too .

:lmao BULLSHIT chant at that call from the referee :lmao.

Ziggler mocking Slaughter :lmao. Doesn't go well for him .

Ziggler gets destroyed by all the legends, then passes out in the Cobra Clutch, but Sarge gets kicked in the back of the head and Ziggler gets pulled over for the cover and eliminates him without doing a damn thing :lmao.

ELBOW~! Dusty pins Ziggler. ZIGGLER GOT NO OFFENCE IN AND ELIMINATED SOMEONE :lmao.

Dusty gets pinned, leaving Flair to battle 3 members of the Spirit Squad on his own.

FLAIR WINS :lmao.

Well this was.. pretty short and not awful or anything, just not something I'd ever feel the need to watch again .

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Chris Benoit Vs Chavo Guerrero - WWE United States Championship Match*

Well, time to see if Benoit can carry Chabo to a match that doesn't make me wanna shoot myself.

Remember the angle involving Eddie's Estate? Neither does WWE because it went nowhere :lmao.

So according to JBL, Chabo is a 2nd generation wrestler. Did he confuse him with his dad? Nah, nobody is that stupid. Chavo CLASSIC was great.

Benoit is good here, as you would expect. His awesome style of never letting his opponent breath, even when he's being beat down, is something I will never tire of. Chabo shows some nice aggression at times too... and then at other times he looks like a goof play fighting with someone . Technically he IS, but come on, don't make it LOOK like you're doing that.

FROG SPLASH~! Sorry, only EDDIE can pin people with that 8*D.

EDDIE chants... which make about as much sense as a USA chant would in this match. Eddie chant could motivate BOTH guys...

Crossface. Benoit wins.

Thankfully this didn't last 20 minutes or something, so they kept it short and were able to keep as much shite (aka CHABO STUFF) out of the match.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


Todd Grisham is interviewing LITA'S BOOB. Lita is retiring tonight . Oh hey, Edge is there too. Didn't notice him. Cryme Tyme can be seen in the background breaking into Lita's locker room and stealing her panties. Fucking perverted thieving bastards...


*Lita Vs Mickie James - WWE Women's Championship Match*

SHE'S A CRACK WHORE chants. FUCK YOU, WWE FANS!!!

Mickie James' ass is on display for 99% of the match :mark:.

Wrestling wise... well it's better than their Cyber Sunday bout that was just total trash lol .

Much of what they do might not look tht great, but hey, at least it's not a sloppy mess like the last time .

SHE'S GOT HERPES chant. I hate the fans sometimes .

:mark: awesome series of kicks from Mickie!

:mark: awesome view of Mickie after the Fisherman's Suplex!

MOONSAULT~!

MICKIE KICKS OUT~!

Big DDT by Mickie, and she wins the women's championship!

Cryme Tyme show up afterwards to sell off Lita's underwear. At the time I hated this whole thing. Lita is awesome and deserved a proper send off... but she was a HEEL at the time, so this was a great way to go out! Just like Jericho in 2005 when he was dragged out kicking and screaming. He was a heel and wanted to LEAVE like a heel, so I can easily see Lita wanting to do the same here.

Actual match is decent. Nothing more, nothing less.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


:lmao awesome clip of a Batista interview, where he just sits there, doesn't move, and doesn't say anything. His best interview EVER!!!


*Triple H, Shawn Michaels, CM Punk, Matt Hardy & Jeff Hardy Vs Edge, Randy Orton, Johnny Nitro, Gregory Helms & Mike Knox - Traditional Survivor Series Elimination Match*

DX pander to the crowd and... the crowd chant for CM Punk :lmao. So HHH at least realises his popularity and hands him the mic to ask Philly if they are READY .

MELINA FAP~!

I think Kelly Kelly forgot her clothes. She never was the brightest knife in the drawer though... .

HHH spots Kelly Kelly and askes her to take her tits out. Knox ain't happen and... well...

I'm a fan of Mike Knox these days, but back in 2006 when he first showed up on ECW, I really couldn't care less about the guy. So it was, and still is, HILARIOUS to see HBK superkick him in the face, pin him, then ask the rest of his team if he was part of the match :lmao.

:lmao then we get that awesome moment of HBK sliding out of the ring and putting his arm around Melina, who thinks its Nitro. She realises its Shawn, screams, causing Shawn to scream too :lmao. Fun stuff.

PUNK :mark:. Comes in, mauls Nitro and makes him TAP OUT!

5 on 3 now, so I guess the heels have got to eliminate SOMEONE now, right? Ahhh, Edge is in against Punk. Punk is a newbie in the WWE and Edge won the WWE title twice in 2006 so surely this is gonna be the first elimination, right?

Nope, Orton tags in. I guess Orton is gonna be the one to eliminate Punk, right?

Nope, Helms tags in, and starts throwing those big knees to the face :mark:. Helms has been on a roll all year as the CW champ, so maybe they're gonna give HIM the Punk elimination, right?

Nope, Orton tags in. See what I said about Orton a couple of lines up? That's what I wanna say here again too .

RKO TO PUNK~! See, I knew it! Orton is getting the elimination!

Nope :lmao. HBK breaks up the pin! Wait... they can DO THAT? WHY DOES NOBODY ELSE EVER DO IT?!?! 

Hot tag to HHH, and hot tag to Helms on the other side and... well, Helms ain't beating HHH :lmao. Love how Jeff and Shawn run into the ring to help out HHH when Edge runs in, meanwhile Matt just stands on the apron like a lazy bastard .

TWIST OF FATE~! SWANTON~! Matt eliminates Helms.

5 on 2 now, with Rated RKO left all alone! They are two main eventers, AND the tag champs though, so SURELY they'll get rid of a couple at least, right? Punk, then maybe one of the Hardy Boys?

Nope :lmao.

SUPERKICK~! Edge is GONE!

Well, Orton IS the king of Survivor Series, right? He was the sole survivor in 2003, 2004 and 2005! If anyone can do it, it's RANDY MOTHERFUCKING SOLE SURVIVOR ORTON, right?

Nope :lmao.

Superkick into a Pedigree, and this is done.

:lmao the heels got absolutely CRUSHED :lmao. WHO BOOKED THIS SHIT? I mean yeah, it's fun as fuck to watch, but seriously, who thought it was a GOOD idea to have a clean sweep win over the heels?!?! 

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*The Undertaker Vs Mr Kennedy - First Blood Match*

:mark:

Kennedy wastes no time taking off a couple of turnbuckle pads before the match! It helped him in their No Mercy match (aka pissed off Undertaker so much he got himself DQ'd  ), and in a first blood match it might help even more!

Undertaker makes his entrance, and once Kennedy lays eyes on the Dead Man, he decides to take off ANOTHER turnbuckle pad lol.

:mark: PUNCHES TO THE FACE :mark:.

We Want lEsner sign in the crowd lol. As well as a HI FISH sign. 

Fuck me, Kennedy, like JBL, knows how to take a big boot to the face from the Dead Man to PERFECTION :mark:.

Kennedy fights back, but this just seems to ANGER Undertaker, who now focuses his attack from the HEAD of Kennedy to the RIBS. That way, if he makes Kennedy bleed, it's going to be INTERNAL BLEEDING, which is far worse! If I were Kennedy, I would have just bladed once the bell rang and saved myself a lot of pain!

UNDERTAKER WITH A SUPERPLEX!!!

MORE SHOTS TO THE RIBS!!! :mark:

LOW BLOW out of desperation from Mr Kennedy! Guess he's trying to make Undertaker piss blood? 

Undertaker is just BRUTALISING Kennedy's ribs!

ANOTHER LOW BLOW~!

Kennedy rolls to the outside and he's bleeding! He is bleeding internally! But the referee can't see, and MVP shows up and cleans Kennedy up! D'awwww, MVP and Kennedy are such good friends .

Well, except for those multiple occasions when Kennedy sent MVP to the wolves aka BOD. PAYBACK FOR MVP~! He throws Kennedy back into the ring for more punishment!!!

Kennedy is screaming out in pain :mark:.

:mark: those exposed turnbuckles come into play :mark:. These guys don't do ANYTHING that doesn't get a payoff :mark:.

Undertaker isn't bleeding yet though, but Kennedy is making a comeback. MVP gets in the ring with a chair to take out Kennedy and... SMASHES IT IN THE FACE OF THE DEAD MAN!

Undertaker is now bleeding! The referee sees it and Mr Kennedy just beat The Undertaker in a fucking first blood match! Holy shit!!!

Silly Kennedy though, doesn't know when to leave. And Undertaker gets back up. Payback is a BITCH.










:mark:

Great, great match.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


*John Cena, Kane, Bobby Lashley, Sabu & RVD Vs The Big Show, Finlay, Umaga, Test & MVP - Traditional Survivor Series Elimination Match*

Cena goes crazy and wipes out the heel team single handed right at the start. Umaga isn't happy, so he rips apart an announce table, steals a momitor and hits everyone in sight, including Cena! Well, I was wondering how they were gonna protect Umaga's streak of never being pinned or forced to submit. Didn't expect the answer so quickly lol.

Holy motherfucking shit. RVD is usually sloppy and stiff with those kicks, and the shot to FINLAY'S HEAD would have probably killed a normal man. Jebus. I mean WOW. I'm surprised my neighbours haven't come to the house complaining about the noise it made!

Oh hey MVP just got pinned. And then Test kicked RVD's head off and pinned him :lmao.

SPEAR TO TEST ON THE FLOOR~!

DDT from Sabu, and Test is gone! LOL.

Big Show just turned a crossbody counter into a CHOKESLAM :mark:. See ya later, Sabu!

Kane and Big Show stare down :mark:. Big Show points to his eye, making reference to what happened MONTHS ago!!!

LITTLE BASTARD~! Finlay cracks Kane in the back of the head! Chokeslam! Kane is gone!

Cena/Lashley Vs Big Show/Finlay! Not a bad tag match on paper tbh lol!

Seeing Finlay maul Cena makes me so damn happy. Giddy, even! Oh, if only Finlay was the WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION at this time. Stupid Stephanie.

All hell is breaking loose! FINLAY THROWS LITTLE BASTARD AT LASHLEY WHO DUCKS AND SPEARS FINLAY, WHILE CENA CATCHES LITTLE BASTARD, GIVES HIM AN F-U, AND FINLAY GETS PINNED!!! If Finlay had to lose here, I think that might have been the most awesome way for him to go out!!!

:lmao at Cena getting booed every time he tags in :lmao.

DISCHARGE THE MARINE sign :lmao.

F-U TO BIG SHOW! BAH GAWD I SWEAR I HAVE NEVER SEEN THAT IN MY ENTIRE LIFE!!! 

This one is done. A lot of fun tbh . And hey, the heels here looked a hell of a lot better than the heels in the OTHER big tag . FINLAY was awesome.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Booker T Vs Batista - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

:lmao who thought it would be a good idea for THIS MATCH to main event the PPV? :lmao

hsp = dir * movespeed;
vsp += grav;

//Horizontal Collision
if (place_meeting(x+hsp,y,obj_wall))
{
while(!place_meeting(x+sign(hsp),y,obj_wall))
{
x+= sign(hsp);
}
hsp = 0;

dir *= -1;
}
x += hsp;
//Vertical Collision
if (place_meeting(x,y+vsp,obj_wall))
{
while(!place_meeting(x,y+sign(vsp),obj_wall))
{
y+= sign(vsp);
}
vsp = 0;
if (fearofheights) && !position_meeting(x+(sprite_width/2)*dir,y+(sprite_height/2)+1,obj_wall)
{
dir*= -1;
}
}

y += vsp;

//Enemy Collision
if (place_meeting(x,y,obj_player)) 
{
if (obj_player.y < y-16) //16 represents half the image size from middle to the top
{
with (obj_player) vsp = -jumpspeed;
 instance_destroy(); 
}
else
{
scr_death();
}
}

Awww, shit. Typed all that in the wrong place. Wait... if I typed THAT in HERE... then what the fuck have I just typed into Gamemaker? :|

Oh yeah, something like this:

THIS MATCH SUCKS BALLS. GO AWAY. I HATE THIS MATCH. IT'S SHIT. FUCK OFF. PILE OF WANK. URGH.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 8.5*​


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Survivor Series 2006. 8.5 score. Okay, now it's the moment where Cal('s opinions) have officially gone insane 8*D.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Team Rated RKO vs Team DX is a certified DUD. The type of DUD where it should deduct the score of the show on the SCALE~!

The chair shot to Kennedy is brutal. He probably had a week long concussion after that.

lol @ RVD and Sabu teaming up with Cena even though they were feuding just 5 months earlier.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Is it just me who thinks a big boot to the face is one of the best things in wrestling lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You only think it's a DUD because Orton got squashed . Match was far too much fun to be a DUD, even if the booking was retarded .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Only fun part was the HBK & Melina spot.  Even Team Guerrero vs Team Angle was better. Solely because Cena broke up Jindrak's pin and told the ref he did it because Jindrak was doing the Rick Rude dance. 

Back to Raw 1998... Owen Hart just joined the Nation and DX's invasion of WCW is continuing!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lol Cal never fails with reviewing shitty main events. Awaiting what he has in store for the Armageddon main event. SvS 2006 sucks outside of Benoit/Chavo and Punk getting the loudest reaction of the night. But who booked all of those matches :lol

A lot of people liked Owen joining the Nation, but I hate everything they did with Owen in 1998. In the beginning of the year, he was the #2 babyface with a shit ton of momentum after the Montreal Screwjob. However, the company did not bother to do anything positive with this momentum. Such a waste. By that point, I don't even know why the Nation existed because Rock certainly didn't need them considering how much his star power was expressed at the time.

Pay attention to the episodes after the first DX invasion. There are two more DX invasion segments that nobody talks about. One of them is alright, but the final one might be the weirdest thing ever done on RAW. I have no clue why THAT DX invasion segment is never talked about. All of us should watch that third DX invasion segment again.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Had no idea there were other DX invasions. Obviously because WWE only ever promotes the first one. ATTEEEEEEEEEEEN-SHUN!

Undertaker just squashed Barry Windham. :lmao His theme sounds like the one he used in his second Deadman run for the past 10 years.

Why is Paul Bearer so funny on the mic? The constant screaming and me having the picture of Taker burning his face from 1997 come together to make me laugh. :lmao

It just keeps getting funnier. Goldust is cutting a promo about the scheduled Austin title match and Foley attacks him from behind and start repeating "That's my shot!". :lmao


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:hbk


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

15 minutes away from Takeover II. :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

What a fun opener. Looks like Sin Cara has found a comfortable spot.


EDIT: :lmao Regarding CJ Parker. I once saw him at the gun range that I go to in Joliet. Dude looked so out of place.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Impressed with Ascension in that match. Haven't been big on them but I thought they did well. Good ring presence. Lucha Dragons are awesome.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Really fun match. Kept it relatively short which was good.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Baron Corbin's finisher. kada


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Well that was ok. I'm not sold on Amore/Cass.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I dunno about them in the ring but I could listen to the banter between those two for hours.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Brye said:


> I dunno about them in the ring but I could listen to the banter between those two for hours.


I can agree with that, though. They are entertaining.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Hideo Itami? Sounds good enough to me. Wish he'd kept KENTA, though.

His theme is pretty dope as well.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Badass debut. (Y)


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Really good divas match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

WWE should just send down Paige/Summer/Emma/AJ to NXT and have a rockin' division down there with those four, Charlotte, Becky Lynch, Bayley and Sasha Banks. pls.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Alright this PPV has already delivered. Not every match was great, but all of them made sense and every character is interesting.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The people that run the NXT shows just get it. Maybe it's because they don't have Vince in their ear but everything is so much more interesting.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Three for freaking three! NXT killing it per usual. I loved every single segment. Even Dempsey/Mojo wasn't bad. That tag team opener. That divas bout. DAT KENTA. DAT ENZO. And then that main event that played with our emotions so well. kada


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Main event was awesome.

Didn't think he'd retain, but I'm happy with how it turned out. Great storytelling and I'm kind of sure they will go for Zayn/Neville now.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

NXT >>>>>>


This stuff is fantastic. The fatal four way was epic. Charlotte/Bayley delivered and the shorter matches were fun, probably because they had actual meaning.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Shit, that show was awesome. Fatal Four Way was awesome. I am continuously surprised and impressed by Sami Zayn.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

That might be the best fatal four way I remember watching.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Don't have the network (yes I realize it's only 9.99), stream site down and I was watching the NFL game, yet I'm seeing people really acclaiming this four way. What kind of range we talking here good? 4 plus? MOTYC? Seeing alot of praise which doesnt surprise me when you get the selling/master of getting investment/sympathy Zayn who is so naturally a face against the natural cocky heel Breeze and then Neville's athletecism and mat skill.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

It's a definite MOTYC imo.

I have it in the ****1/2 range. 

I fucking loved it. Bought into so many of the false finishes. God damn. :banderas


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've got the four way at ****1/4. Gonna watch it again with my dad tomorrow.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Still, Shield/Wyatts and Cesaro/Zayn are ahead of the four way, but the four way could potentially slot right into the #3 spot by the end of the year. It's definitely top 3-5.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Just got home and watched the fatal four way, and that was great. Zayn going HAM made me mark out too :zayn :zayn2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

My full ratings for NXT Takeover: Fatal 4-Way:

Ascension/Team Lucha: **1/2
Corbin/Parker: DUD (Dat debut tho)
Amore/LeFort: **1/4
Rawley/Dempsey: 1/2* (Which is still miles better than expected)
Charlotte/Bayley: ***1/2
Fatal 4-Way: ****1/4

NXT is three for three. While I still thought Arrival and Takeover I were ever so slightly better, this was still a really good show.

The undercard was perfectly functional. Ascension/Team Lucha was probably the Ascension's best match to date that I can remember, w/a decent workover segment and a nicely explosive ending stretch. Corbin/Parker was a squash, but completely fulfilled its purpose of debuting Corbin in big fashion. Amore/LeFort was decent, nothing special but again, fulfilled its role and put over Team SAWFT hard. KENTA's debut was well done, didn't really care about his promo (other than his new name Hideo Itami, which I like), but the physicality at the end was quite badass tbh (him & Regal vs. Ascension in the near future it seems?). Rawley/Dempsey was WAY better than expected, it was a minute but a minute of two big guys beating the shit out of each other - FUN FUN FUN.

Charlotte/Bayley was super. Loved it. Charlotte pulled a great performance as a dominant and confident heel champion who didn't take her challenger seriously and worked over Bayley's head area for most of the match relentlessly and in really nice fashion. Bayley, however, had one of my favorite women's performances in a WWE ring in YEARS. She played the role of fighting underdog to pretty much perfection. Selling well for Charlotte, coming back w/very convincing flurries and having me in the edge of my seat hoping for her to win. The ending was awesome btw - dissapointed that Bayley lost, but Bayley frustrating Charlotte to a boiling point but finally getting put down was great. These two women had the crowd in the palm of their hands, they pulled an excellent match and I really can't wait to see if Bayley can actually get to the top of the mountain. Women's match of the year so far, easily.

And then the Fatal 4-Way. Jesus Christ. Words can't do the mayhem justice. The match did start off kinda slowly, w/them brawling to the outside, although it did make sense since it was giving continuity to the ongoing feuds (Zayn/Breeze and Neville/Kidd). Kidd getting such a long control segment over everyone did shock me, but he did just totally fine in his role. Loved how he always kept throwing Neville outside, just making Neville's return to the match more meaningful. And then, once Neville did his Asai Moonsault onto the other two, chaos started breaking out. SO. MANY. FALSE. FINISHES. Breeze was so great in his opportunist role btw. The Shooting Star Press false finish almost got me. As did the Breeze kicks everyone to death sequence. The Tower of Doom didn't, but it looked good. But Zayn going ham at the end was easily the closest moment of the night. I was marking the fuck out for his impending win. Neville winning after THAT was a buzzkill for me, but I guess what's exactly what was supposed to be achieved there. Not sure if Neville turned heel or just did what he had to do. Regardless, outstanding, outstanding match that really felt as big as the hype it got. Spectacular.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Eddy Guerrero vs Fit Finlay (WCW Monday Nitro 12.22.1997)*

x25st9y

*By request.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Jesus how good is Sami Zayn kada

Super fun show from top to bottom. Great women's match. Charlotte is so confusing to me. Some days I really like her and she performs like one of the best divas on the roster. Other days I find her pretty meh. But she was great here. Bayley was fantastic though. She's like the Sami Zayn of the divas division, in terms of her underdog performances. Then again, Zayn may be turning into the Dolph Ziggler of developmental- always close but never winning. Really hope Neville drops the belt to him.

Also, The Boss Sasha getting into the title picture is good news. I feel she has been pretty solid in the recent weeks. And Hideo Itami's debut was cool. I like the name too though it did surprise me a little after they had been promoting him as Kenta all this while. Atleast they are acknowledging that Itami and Kenta are the same person.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Breeze/Zayn/Kidd/Neville ****1/2

Same rating like Shield/Wyatts, but if I had to choose, I'd pick this one, if nothing then because visually it's more captivating (no Michael J. Fox on camera), just a perfectly booked multi-man match, very easy to get into, and this is coming from a man who only watched Cesaro/Zayn from NXT 2014. Shit, just realized I have that one at ****1/2 too.

Who books NXT?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Armageddon 2006*

Time to end 2006 PPV Rambles with... the final PPV of the year! Might not be the BEST show, but certainly one of the more FUN shows with a couple of great matches too!


*Kane Vs MVP - Inferno Match*

First inferno match since 1999! Which was Kane Vs HHH, I think? During that whole "Unforgiven Challenge" on Smackdown where HHH had to wrestle 5 crazy stipulation matches, including an inferno match with Kane, and a casket match against Undertaker (who walked out before the match and wasn't seen again until JD 2000 because he was injured, so Mideon and Viscera replaced him).

You gotta have BALLS OF STEEL to be in one of these matches tbh. MVP was on the top rope when the flames shot up and almost caught his fucking leg. How he didn't launch himself away in terror is beyond me lol.

LOL at each side all having a turn at going out.

KANE TAKES OFF A TURNBUCKLE PAD AND SETS IT ON FIRE!!! MVP attacked Kane and forced him to drop it and MVP nearly FELL ON IT.

Love when the flames shoot up in the air on impact from a big move :mark:. An awesome sight.

Despite the limitations of this match (you know, being surrounded by FIRE), they manage to have a pretty good match. Which can't be the easiest thing to do lol.

As with all inferno matches, they end up on the outside because apparently getting set on fire INSIDE THE RING isn't an option? 

Poor MVP barely got anything in on Kane, and in the end, gets his BACK SET ON FIRE.










I like this . They did well all things considering, and while MVP never really impressed me during his career, I did enjoy his series of matches with Kane in 06.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*Paul London & Brian Kendrick Vs William Regal & Dave Taylor Vs The Hardy Boys Vs MNM - WWE Tag Team Championship Ladder Match*

Originally set to just be a normal tag between Londrick and Regal/Taylor, but Teddy Long decides to make it a 4 way ladder match! Both awesome (FOUR WAY LADDER MATCH) and disappointing (no regular tag between 2 awesome tag teams) .

Melina looking DAMN GOOD.

:lmao JBL is screaming and swearing about how Teddy Long is a bastard putting MVP in the inferno match, then goes crazy when he makes a 4 team ladder match, claiming they'll be stretchering out bodies all night. Then once THE HARDY BOYS are announced he's LOVING IT because they are the "KINGS OF TLC" apparently :lmao.

Wild crazy brawl to start things off, then REGAL AND TAYLOR begin to rule. Regal KILLS Londrick with suplexes. And we haven't even got to the one on a ladder yet :mark:.

Hardy's try to bring ladders into the ring, but Regal and Taylor throw them back out . They don't want any part of ladders. They don't NEED ladders to demolish people!

Bodies are flying EVERYWHERE :mark:.

Despite all the crazy ladder matches that took place prior to this one, they are still able to produce a TON of unique spots! And that is impressive tbh. Far too often now in MITB matches we see "standard" ladder spots and the matches suffer as a result.

Speaking of suffering...










Ouch. Fucking OUCH.

And hey, this match isn't over yet!

REGAL AND TAYLOR TIME~! They've been on the floor for a little while, so it's time for them to shine!!!










:mark:

:lmao and after Regal does THAT, he tries to climb a ladder and wusses out because he's terrified of heights :lmao. <3 REGAL.










:mark:

THIS IS AWESOME *CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP*

SLICED BREAD #2 FROM THE TOP OF A LADDER TO REGAL~! Regal crashes to the mat and might be dead. Kendrick almost landed on his NECK and probably IS dead.

PAUL LONDON GETS THE BELTS~! LONDRICK RETAIN~!

Oh my, this is just wonderful. "Spotfest" aren't usually my thing, but every now and then one will come along and it'll be done so awesomely, you can't NOT like it. This is one of them. All 8 men do a terrific job, we get a TON of unique and awesome spots, some of which are my favourite ladder match related spots EVER, and the fact that Mercury had to be taken the hospital half way through the match and it didn't stop the flow or screw these guys up is a testament to how good they are.

*Rating: ****1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 7*


Fuck me, we are only TWO MATCHES IN to the PPV :mark:.


*The Boogeyman Vs The Miz*

Well this sure is a downer after that awesome ladder match. But I guess fans will need to get something to eat or drink, and take a piss, after not being able to go ANYWHERE during the last match.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Chris Benoit Vs Chavo Guerrero - WWE United States Championship Match*

:lmao they are actually trying to make people believe that Benoit intentionally hit Vickie at the Survivor Series when she got on the apron and Chavo shoved him into her :lmao. Benoit would NEVER hurt a women... nevermind.

Hoping this is fairly short like their SVS match. The longer it does, the worse it's going to be because CHABO SUCKS.

Anyway, this was ok. A little longer than I would have wanted. Couldn't be arsed wasting energy talking about Chabo .

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*Gregory Helms Vs Jimmy Wang Yang - WWE Cruiserweight Championship Match*

YING YING YANG YONG YING YANG YANG~! I honestly don't know why JBL said that :lmao.

We are getting one HELL of a great CW match here, plenty of action etc, no rest holds and the fans are chanting BORING? Some people just need a good slapping.

:mark: that running heel kick in the corner where Yang flies over the ropes and catches himself is awesome.

:lmao JBL reveals he wears chaps.

SUPER NECKBREAKER~!

Helms flies off the ropes and gets caught with another heel kick right to the face!

CODEBREAKER~!

HELMS WINS~!

Man, what a match. Great, great action. And that heel kick that caught Helms coming off the ropes seems to have busted him open too. Shame the fans were dumb cunts.

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


*The Undertaker Vs Mr Kennedy - Last Ride Match*

:mark: this card just keeps on giving!!!

:lmao all the way through Kennedy's pre-match promo in the ring there is one guy just screaming YOUUUUU SUUUUUCK over and over again :lmao.

:mark: Undertaker is out to DESTROY Mr Kennedy. Awesome spot early on where Undertaker launches Kennedy off the announce table, ribs first into the apron!

:mark: THAT APRON LEGDROP~! Great camera angle underneath Kennedy's head, and Mr Kennedy always tries to climb up the ropes which creates space between him and the apron, so he ends up taking a bump off the legdrop too :mark:.

:lmao that Kennedy hater can still be heard screaming YOU SUUUUCK :lmao.

SLEEPER HOLD~! Mr Kennedy has put Undertaker in the hearse! He goes to get in the front seat to drive away... and UNDERTAKER POPS OUT :lmao. 

CHAIR SHOTS~! Kennedy is mauling the Dead Man with a steel chair, but The Undertaker keeps getting back up and ends up chasing Kennedy up on the Armageddon stage!!!

They battle on top of the stage and then...










:mark: always amazing to see Undertaker taking bumps like that despite his size and age. Also amazing that despite everything we've already seen tonight, that was STILL fucking awesome :mark:.

Kennedy has to drag the body of Undertaker to the hearse. This match has GOT to be over now, right?

Undertaker is in the hearse, Kennedy is in the driver's seat and then... UNDERTAKER SITS UP AND DRAGS KENNEDY INTO THE BACK WITH HIM AND OUT AGAIN TO THE ARENA!!! Undertaker is alive! He's alive!!!

Undertaker just tried to KILL Kennedy with a steel pipe!!! Luckily for Kennedy he was able to duck, and Undertaker instead smashed through the back window of the hearse.

CHAIR TO THE HEAD~! Kennedy is BUSTED WIDE OPEN.

CHOKESLAM ON THE ROOF OF THE HEARSE~!

TOMBSTONE ON THE ROOF OF THE HEARSE~!

This one is done!

:mark: Great match :mark:. Awesome brawling, some great spots, and any time we get to see THE UNDERTAKER driving is just something to behold .

The "worst" of their PPV series, which just says more about their previous matches.

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


Booker T and Finlay backstage. So has Booker dropped his King accent now he's no longer the champion? I know he kept the King Booker gimmick, but did he keep the accent? Because he sure as fuck wasn't using it here .


*Ashley Vs Kristal Vs Layla Vs Jillian - Naughty or Nice Lingerie Contest*

Fap? FAP.

:lmao BIG DICK JOHNSON is Santa. Layla is all over him and JBL screams "LAYLA'S A CHUBBY CHASER". Which means wrestling fans around the world all have hope!!! 

In the end, EVERYONE wins.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*John Cena & Batista Vs Finlay & Booker T*

On paper... this actually interests me. However based on memory, this wasn't good . Still, I'll give it a watch. After all, FINLAY.

Yawn, Cena and Booker start things off.

Yey Finlay tags in and gets him some of Batista.

:lmao Batista catches Finlay coming off the ropes, but instead of slamming him or anything, just puts him down and SLAPS HIM IN THE FACE.

MUSCLE BUSTER~!

NOOOOOOOO Booker T tagged in . This should have just been a handicap match. Finlay would fucking own both champions. And that just reminded me of one of my favourite FINLAY stories from Lance Storm, where he talks about how Finlay wanted a handicap match with Luger and Buff on the last ever Nitro so he could beat the shit out of them for being so damn lazy for the last year or so . He even said he'd do it for free!!!

:lmao Finlay breaks up a tag, so Batista runs in and charges towards Finlay and... well I think he forgot what the fuck he was supposed to do because he just kinda slams into Finlay with no real purpose :lmao.

:lmao Little Bastard comes out to kick Cena in the head and... kicks HIMSELF in the head!!!

Batista Bomb to Booker.

So this was still crap . So disappointing. There just wasn't anything to the match at all.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 14*​


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> Breeze/Zayn/Kidd/Neville ****1/2
> 
> Same rating like Shield/Wyatts, but if I had to choose, I'd pick this one, if nothing then because visually it's more captivating (no Michael J. Fox on camera), just a perfectly booked multi-man match, very easy to get into, and this is coming from a man who only watched Cesaro/Zayn from NXT 2014. Shit, just realized I have that one at ****1/2 too.
> 
> Who books NXT?


Triple H books/produces all of NXT. He has a group of 2-3 writers who work with him but for all intents and purposes Hunter is the "Vince" of NXT. He's the guy who helped give us The Shield, The Wyatt Family, Sami Zayn and Adrian Neville in prominent roles, and assorted other things. Granted, he will tell you in interviews that he's not responsible for Bray or the Shield, that it's those guys who worked their tails off and created those characters and brought them to life, but he did help them along the way and kept Vince from fucking with them too much. For instance with Bray Wyatt, Windham Rotunda was down in NXT after Husky Harris had failed and was trying to come up with a new gimmick. He sent Hunter a tape of the first "Bray Wyatt interview" and Hunter really really liked it so they went back and forth helping flesh out the character, come up with the lantern entrance, and all that jazz. With Hunter calling the shots Bray became one of the most popular and unique characters on the roster. Then Vince got his greasy paws on him when the Cena feud started and EVERYTHING has been down hill from there.

You can read up on it more if it interests you, but Hunter seems like he knows how to run a wrestling show. It's too bad Vince won't stop controlling Raw and SD until he's dead. Anyone who has watched NXT for any length of time knows it's a better run show it just doesn't have the star power to draw viewers. Hell even the commentary in NXT is WORLDS better than what we get on an average Monday night.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Armageddon '06 is one of my childhood's PPV's, so it's nice that you gave it a respectable score, Cal .

And now I came to the realization that, when I said Arrival and Takeover I were both better than Takeover II? Well, I changed my mind. I still think Arrival is better, but I came to the realization that Takeover II > I. Takeover I's three Main Events were all really good, but Takeover II had imo the WWE women's MOTY (Charlotte/Bayley) AND a certified MOTYC (Fatal 4-Way). Also, Takeover I had a pretty average-at-best undercard, whereas II had a pretty competent one in its own right. Yeah, as far as NXT PPV's go: Arrival > Takeover II > Takeover I. They're all great, but that's the order I'm going with.

Btw, my top 5 NXT PPV matches:
1) Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn, Arrival (****3/4)
2) Fatal 4-Way, Takeover II (****1/4)
3) Sami Zayn vs. Tyler Breeze, Takeover I (****)
4) Charlotte vs. Bayley, Takeover II (***1/2)
5) Adrian Neville vs. Tyson Kidd, Takeover I (***1/2)


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Hunter is in charge of NXT, but I'm pretty sure there's only one writer for the show. Two tops, but I read only one and he answers to HHH.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watched the 4-way from NXT. Gotta say... wasn't THAT impressed by it, considering the praise it's gotten. Good match, but definitely not a MOTYC or anything. ***1/2 at most from me. ZAYN was great in it though. Just another terrific performance by him.

Will write up an End of Year Thoughts post for 2006 PPV either later tonight or tomorrow. God, SD 06 still rules. Their worst PPV in 06 still got a 13 on the CAL SCALE. Will start 07 rambles next week probably.


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

*NXT Takeover: Fatal 4 Way*

*NXT Tag Team Championship*
The Ascension (Konnor & Viktor) (c) vs Lucha Dragons (Sin Cara & Kalisto) **

Baron Corbin vs CJ Parker N/A

Hair vs Hair Match
Sylvester LeFort vs Enzo Amore 1/2*

Bull Dempsey vs Mojo Rawley 1/2*

*NXT Women's Championship*
Charlotte (c) vs Bayley ***

*NXT Championship - Fatal 4 Way Match*
Adrian Neville (c) vs Tyler Breeze vs Sami Zayn vs Tyson Kidd ***1/2

Overall Grade: 5.25


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Watched NXT, surprisingly.

First time I've seen Charlotte. :mark: Thought she was great. Bayley reminded me of a female Bryan with her underdog performance and desperation comebacks. Impressed by both of them.

Fourway was good, bot nowhere near MOTYC good imo. Cesaro/Zayn from Arrival is much better IMO.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

****1/4 for the four way, awesome performances form all 4 guys. 

Neville cutting off Zayn and his moonsault, the false finish with Breeze and Zayn cleaning house at the end. :mark:


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Zayn vs Neville vs Kidd vs Breeze ******

I liked this match but there were a few things that brought it down for me. Neville receives a double suplex/powerbomb and one minute later is climbing the ropes. Zayn gets blasted with a superkick and is up two seconds later. I get that they wanted to go for a finish where Zayn looks strong by almost breaking up the pin but I just didn't like the whole idea of using a loud-ass thigh slap kick to do it. Also, for the beating Neville took in the last few minutes him still being able to do that freaking spiral whatever it was off the top rope took me out of it a bit. I haven't watched NXT in a while, so I'm not sure if he is a heel, but a more heelish thing to have done would have simply been to make the cover. Would have told the story that it could have been Zayn's win if Neville dind't drag him out. Still, this match was a hell of a lot of fun and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't marking out like a little girl.

Also, I really gotta start back watching NXT. That Enzo dude and his partner are the probably the most damn entertaining characters in the WWE today.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

My favorite parts of the 4-way were Kidd's control segment and Neville cutting off Zayn and his moonsault, like Ryan said.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

My review for NXT TAKEOVER: FATAL FOURWAY

NXT TAG TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP
Calisto and Sin Cara vs The Ascension (c)
**** 
Great opener. Nice fast paced action. I wasn't into Calisto before but he impressed me tonight. I like his finisher. His mask was sick too. LUCHA! LUCHA! LUCHA!

Baron Carbon vs CJ Parker
N/A
Squash match. Carbon owns.

HAIR VS HAIR MATCH
Sylvestor Lefort vs Enzo Amore
***
Match was alright. A bit SAWFT. But the post-match segment was BAWSE.

Marked out to Kenta/Itami :mark:

Bull Dempsey vs Mojo Rawley
N/A
Quick almost squash match. Dempsey destroyed Rawley

(Renee Young is hot but she is annoying on commentary.)

NXT WOMENS CHAMPIONSHIP
Bayley vs Charlotte (c)
****
I wasn't sure if Charlotte could carry the match but she did. She held her own. Shes a good heel with some nice moves. Natural Selection is sick. She looked like a boss at the end when she defended Bayley from Sasha Banks. I definitely see shades of daddy Flair. WOO! I didnt see much offense from Bayley, only the hurricarana. The match started slow but turned into a great match midway. 

NXT CHAMPIONSHIP FATAL FOURWAY
Tyler Breeze vs Sami Zayn vs Tyson Kidd vs Adrien Neville (c)
****1/2
Great match all around in and out of the ring. Great storytelling. All four guys are future stars. Kidd really stood out with lots of offensive moves and an aggressive style. Breeaze was awesome with his scavenger heel tactics. Zayn proves himself once again that he can do anything in the ring. Neville is super over and shows why he is a champion. Red Arrow is awesome.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm surprised Charlotte/Bayley isn't getting that much attention, you guys. I understand that the Fatal 4-Way was mindblowing good, but those two ladies (and I'm not even Charlotte fan btw) deserve mad props for that badass match. Talk about damn strong character work right there. Paige/Emma and Nattie/Charlotte get all the talk for NXT PPV women's matches, and I did really like both of those even if I think they're overrated - that being said, I thought this was better than both easily.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Will check out the women's match later. I didn't get a chance to catch the 8pm stream and I only saw the first hour of the 11pm stream. Watched the 4 way this morning. So, yeah, will definitely check out the women's match.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Paige/Emma was the worst out of the three NXT "PPV" Divas matches, imo. I think I prefer Natalya/Charlotte the most.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Imo: Charlotte/Bayley > Paige/Emma > Natalya/Charlotte

Nattie/Charlotte was riding along very well, w/great sequences and great physicality. However, that Figure Four spot in the middle KILLED it for me.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I'm still high on Paige vs. Emma. Very high on it. Maybe I'll have to re-watch it, but of the special event divas matches, I'd have that #1, followed by Bayley vs. Charlotte and then Natalya vs. Charlotte.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

I thought that 4-way was seriously fun. Loved Kidd's control segment, and it's one of the better ones I've seen in a 4-way. It has some of the problems most multi-man matches have for me, but the fact that I got so into it without following NXT (i'll watch the odd match that gets pimped) says quite a bit, and shows that no matter the limitations of the 4-way element these guys found a way to keep it interesting and mostly logical. The finishing run was awesome I thought. Neville is great, the guy has come so far since I first saw him on an ROH show in '07, carries himself really well in the ring and despite a couple of botches with Zayn (surprisingly) he's so fluid and crisp with everything he does. I've never seen Breeze before, and he didn't do a lot, but the sequence where he finally got some stuff in on everyone and almost won was great, and he played the opportunist role well coming in and trying to get the sneaky win every now and then. Zayn was the standout though like he always is and I've never seen him give a performance that was less than 100% for what the context was. He's great in the short tv matches I've seen and he's great in the longer ppv matches for different reasons. He's been amazing for years but just like Cesaro I think he's actually improved after his time in WWE. Yeah, a super fun match with great character stuff by all involved. ******


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Neville, Zayn and Breeze are all booked for Raw and Smackdown next week. Would be good if they could add a triple threat at NoC or even a rematch from last night to give them more exposure, even if it was just the pre show.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Bubz said:


> I thought that 4-way was seriously fun. Loved Kidd's control segment, and it's one of the better ones I've seen in a 4-way. It has some of the problems most multi-man matches have for me, but the fact that I got so into it without following NXT (i'll watch the odd match that gets pimped) says quite a bit, and shows that no matter the limitations of the 4-way element these guys found a way to keep it interesting and mostly logical. The finishing run was awesome I thought. Neville is great, the guy has come so far since I first saw him on an ROH show in '07, carries himself really well in the ring and despite a couple of botches with Zayn (surprisingly) he's so fluid and crisp with everything he does. I've never seen Breeze before, and he didn't do a lot, but the sequence where he finally got some stuff in on everyone and almost won was great, and he played the opportunist role well coming in and trying to get the sneaky win every now and then. Zayn was the standout though like he always is and I've never seen him give a performance that was less than 100% for what the context was. He's great in the short tv matches I've seen and he's great in the longer ppv matches for different reasons. He's been amazing for years but just like Cesaro I think he's actually improved after his time in WWE. Yeah, a super fun match with great character stuff by all involved. ******


Wow. I just finished watching this myself and was planning on oosting my thoughts but that's not necessary anymore as you just posted them. I have it at the same, ****. Thought it was a GREAT match, which surprised me because I'm not a fan of 3 and 4 person matches usually. They did about as well as they possibly could. Zayn stole the show like he always does, dude is so good it's scary. Whenever he gets his call up he will set the world on fire, he's just got one of those personalities that people naturally gravitate towards.

So yea, **** great match.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Speaking of botches, did anyone catch the botched reverse hurricanrana? Neville could have easily been fucked up from the landing.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Looks like KENTA will use



Spoiler: ABC



Top Rope Double Stomp



as his finisher.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Hmmm, funny thing is I thought they signed Kenta so he could use the GTS and WWE would completely erase every memory of Punk :lol

I'm not sure if I can buy the double stomp as a finisher but then again in the WWE it's not a common move. Maybe it'll work.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Has anyone heard what Kevin Steen's name is going to be in NXT? I could see it being something like Kevin Owen. Owen is his kid's name and an homage to Canada. wen 



Brye said:


> I dunno about them in the ring but I could listen to the banter between those two for hours.


Incredibly funny. That shit would be over as fuck in WWE. 



DoubtGin said:


> Really good divas match.


Agreed. I enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> Three for freaking three! NXT killing it per usual. I loved every single segment. Even Dempsey/Mojo wasn't bad. That tag team opener. That divas bout. DAT KENTA. DAT ENZO. And then that main event that played with our emotions so well. kada


Agreed. Good show. Main event was really fun. :zayn has nothing left to prove in NXT. I'm hoping :cesaro wins the US title and Zayn and him feud over it later this year/early 2015. 

I really like the Tyler Breeze character. It's over the top but it's entertaining. You just wanna see him get slapped.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

sharkboy22 said:


> Speaking of botches, did anyone catch the botched reverse hurricanrana? Neville could have easily been fucked up from the landing.


I think it was supposed to be a Blue Thunder bomb but Zayn couldn't catch Neville, so he over-rotated and landed on the back of his head. Still looked kinda cool despite the botch (although I'm glad no one was hurt).

:zayn still rules though


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Lucha Dragons vs Ascension - **3/4
Charlotte vs Bayley - ***1/2
Kidd vs Neville vs Breeze vs Zayn - ****1/2

The Enzo stuff was fantastic too. You can tell the show isn't being written by the guys that do the main shows.

Also for the NXT special show woman's matches, I'd rank them as followed:

Emma/Paige
Charlotte/Bayley
Charlotte/Natalya (I'm not all that huge on this one but it was good)


----------



## Saber Rider ^-^ (Mar 15, 2014)

Great NXT special. The fatal 4 way was awesome really. All 4 guys delivered big time. Breeze did everything he needed to do well like always and this new Mr. Facts Tyson Kidd stuff is growing on me actually. Surprised how good he was on the mic during the pre and post shows.

Zayn had some epic fire and that final stretch was next level stuff. I thought he might have hurt himself after that tope on Neville but thankfully he was alright. I was genuinely shocked when Neville pulled the ref out. I don’t think it was a legit heel turn, was it? Couldn’t tell from the post-match interview either. I hope not.

That Bayley / Charlotte match was sweet. Some of Charlotte’s weekly TV matches are passible tbh, but she seems to deliver on all the big occasions, great trait to have. Love the fact that she’s bringing more Flair mannerisms to her performances. She shouldn’t shy away from that, it’s cool watching her WOO. Bayley’s such a great underdog face it’ll epic when she finally wins the belt.

I actually dug Renee on commentary for the first time :argh: and apparently Michael Cole produces NXT commentary, who'da thunk it. Let the man do his job in peace maybe?

Zayn is still ridiculously great and I really thought he had it won. Not sure the last time I felt that disappointed seeing someone lose. Like Bayley, when he finally wins the belt it’ll be something special.



sharkboy22 said:


> Zayn vs Neville vs Kidd vs Breeze ******
> 
> I liked this match but there were a few things that brought it down for me. Neville receives a double suplex/powerbomb and one minute later is climbing the ropes. *Zayn gets blasted with a superkick and is up two seconds later. I get that they wanted to go for a finish where Zayn looks strong by almost breaking up the pin* but I just didn't like the whole idea of using a loud-ass thigh slap kick to do it.


Sami looked so beat up going for the save like he barely had any strength left that it didn’t really take me out of the moment. If he’d have leaped toward them it would have been a different story though.


----------



## Mike Smalling (Sep 30, 2005)

I was watching the Royal Rumble match from 2003 where Lesnar won.

I have a very, very BIG doubt.

Was Batista actually eliminated? I'm pretty sure he wasn't, if "you have to go over the top rope to be eliminated" is the rule for the match-up. If you watch closely, Taker clearly goes over the top rope when he's eliminated by Lesnar. Kane clearly goes over the top rope when he is eliminated by Taker. Batista on the other hand, goes down and through the second/middle ropes when he is attacked by Taker with a chair. He DOES NOT, repeat DOES NOT go over the top ropes.

I'm confused.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Brye said:


> Lucha Dragons vs Ascension - **3/4
> Charlotte vs Bayley - ***1/2
> Kidd vs Neville vs Breeze vs Zayn - ****1/2
> 
> ...


This. 

I read somewhere that there's only like 3 or 4 guys on the NXT team. Maybe that's another reason why NXT is so much better. Too many cooks in the RAW writing team's office.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Mr. Jay-LK said:


> I was watching the Royal Rumble match from 2003 where Lesnar won.
> 
> I have a very, very BIG doubt.
> 
> ...


You probably missed it but he was already eliminated about a minute before. Then he returned with a chair to aid Kane in the Raw vs Smackdown mini-battle they had going there. Taker takes his head off with the chair and he falls through the middle rope.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Takeover II is up there w/WM XXX & Chikara You Only Live Twice as the best shows produced in North America this year. _(from everything I've seen so far, of course 8*D)_ Where most of the rest have flopped, these have soared. My god, Takeover was pretty much a flawless event. Best of the bunch w/the NXT specials and it was thanks to both the quality of the matches & having a roster that flourishes up and down the card.

Main event was perfect in my eyes. I don't react like that on just any match. Granted Zayn was why I was so into it. But all four ruled & it was structured to, well, perfection. Kidd OWNED for his extended period. Perfect and my plight continues w/yet another heartbreaking, albeit supremely well done Sami Zayn "close, but no cigar" loss. FUCK. Next time. Zayn vs Neville II is gonna happen.

Charlotte vs Bayley was awesome. Don't feel the need to compare it to the other two women's matches on the previous specials, b/c that is only supporting the vintage mediocrity of WWE women's wrestling, but this match was good. Really good. No if's, and's or but's about it. Nearly great, however the finish was a bit flatter than intended. Charlotte is almost too good of an athlete/gymnast, so the moonsault spot didn't work. Everything else was on point. Strong stuff. I hate to make the "best women's match in WWE in a decade" or junk like that comment b/c it isn't hard to accomplish & I'm only emphasizing the celebrating of general mediocrity in other spells, but yeah, this totally was.

Tag titles was a good sprint among styles clash. The bruisers vs the luchadores. Good stuff. I would have preferred a more dragged out process of the champions being dethroned, but the specials only happen every so often, so giving the change on a special > any random edition of weekly NXT. Makes sense. Yay for Kalisto. What a marvel. Ascension will probably be owned by KENTA in the coming weeks & onto the main roster they go. As expected.

Speaking of, KENTA segment was cool. Why does he seem cooler whenever he's in America? Idk. Don't care. Happy to see him around b/c my interest in him is back again. I've felt WWE could limit him to where he is highlighted positive & the noticeable negatives to how he works can be diminished. I'm looking forward to how his career plays out. A tag match w/Regal soon? Perhaps. I'm cool w/that. Imagine he has the Go To Sleep locked for a finisher considering his other two holds are used by Danielson _(running knee & Game Over Submission aka YES Lock)_

Baron Corbin was WOAH. I saw it coming, but glad it happened. Parker is awesome enough of a character to get owned like that & Corbin is now officially off and running. Fun.

BULL DEMPSEY KILLS MOJO RAWLEY. I don't even have to go into detail about why that ruled the world. He even busted his face open. Fuck yes.

Enzo & Cass were terrific as always. Pop they get always gives me goosebumps. Fun match vs Lefort. Glad it got some time to be something. Fun character, fun scenario, just fun. Although, was odd to see Louis take the hair loss over Lefort. Might have made it a tag match and Louis take the pin & the hair stip on his head, a la an Apuesta match. Whatever. Not like I really care. It all worked out.

Was that it? Probably. I love NXT. Super duper effort by everyone. Takeover in May was a disappointment for me, so I'm glad they came back stronger than ever w/their return to a special. Hell of a night.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Takeover II is up there w/WM XXX & Chikara You Only Live Twice as the best shows produced in North America this year. _(from everything I've seen so far, of course 8*D)_ Where most of the rest have flopped, these have soared. My god, Takeover was pretty much a flawless event. Best of the bunch w/the NXT specials and it was thanks to both the quality of the matches & having a roster that flourishes up and down the card.
> 
> Main event was perfect in my eyes. I don't react like that on just any match. Granted Zayn was why I was so into it. But all four ruled & it was structured to, well, perfection. Kidd OWNED for his extended period. Perfect and my plight continues w/yet another heartbreaking, albeit supremely well done Sami Zayn "close, but no cigar" loss. FUCK. Next time. Zayn vs Neville II is gonna happen.
> 
> ...


I've been really impressed with Tyler Breeze. I didn't know he was that good until a couple months ago. Everyone owned in that match though. And the ending sets up for what should be an epic main event next big event. :mark:

Are you the other person that really likes the Paige/Summer Rae match from last year? Where would you stack that next to Charlotte/Bayley?

Also Enzo/Cass have absurd chemistry together. Have you seen the full segment from the salon? Shit was awesome. :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Breeze is certainly quality. Once WWE let him show it, he's performed really well. I'm glad.

Aye, I am. Paige vs Summer had about three good matches last year. Believe you are talking about the one when Paige returned to get revenge on Summer. I'd put Charlotte vs Bayley over it, but I'm a fan of both. Consider it a really good vs good, type scenario. Charlotte vs Bayley did have a bit more going for it at the end of the day. Stronger emphasis, deeper story. You can chalk that up to the production on the special, of course. 

I haven't, but I'll assume the salon segment is on youtube. It's Enzo & Cass. I already know it will rule. :mark:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Breeze is certainly quality. Once WWE let him show it, he's performed really well. I'm glad.
> 
> Aye, I am. Paige vs Summer had about three good matches last year. Believe you are talking about the one when Paige returned to get revenge on Summer. I'd put Charlotte vs Bayley over it, but I'm a fan of both. Consider it a really good vs good, type scenario. Charlotte vs Bayley did have a bit more going for it at the end of the day. Stronger emphasis, deeper story. You can chalk that up to the production on the special, of course.
> 
> I haven't, but I'll assume the salon segment is on youtube. It's Enzo & Cass. I already know it will rule. :mark:


Agreed. I like how they've kept the main event scene pretty fresh. Showed my dad the match today and he thought Breeze was hilarious. He was pissed when Zayn didn't win but loved the match.

(Y) Kinda feel the same. Both had good stories behind them but the end of Charlotte/Bayley was pretty epic. Once again thoroughly impressed with how they book that division down there. If only that could carry over to the main shows. :side:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x25b2aa_wwe-nxt-enzo-amore-and-colin-cassady-visit-hair_sport

It's awesome. :lmao


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I watched Backlash 2000 after having an itch when I "fantasy booked" an Ambrose return. Also, that was the first event I ever bought on home video when I was a kid and started my collection off from there.

The reactions during this... god damn, especially for The Rock. Every time he was on screen, it was huge.

Also, I noticed the pacing of this show is different from WWE PPVs of today, but the NXT Special Events are paced in a similar fashion where they go from match to segment/video and back to a match rather quickly, with minimal downtime.

The only match that I thought really sucked was Acolytes vs. Bossman/Buchanan. Also, I legit cringed during the hardcore title match with all the unprotected shots to the head with weapons.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

They really have. Neville is dominate. Zayn is forever the underdog spirit. Breeze is the unknown who made his name known. And Kidd proved a lot of detractors _(at least he should)_ wrong in how he can be good in his role on NXT as the fed up vet looking for his glory. See, even your Dad can get sucked in by Zayn. IT'S UNIVERSAL. The jaunty Canadian has power over us all. :zayn3

It's just cool to see both emphasis and actual talent pull through. Neat to see. Shame it is so rare, but at least NXT does keep the consistency high. All their championships have value. The best part of NXT.

Gonna watch the video now. Oh man at what to expect, haha.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

It kind of reminds me of ECW '09 booking only with more new guys and more titles to put emphasis on. Maybe I'm just saying that because the wrestling is awesome haha. I'm curious if we'll get a moment after Steen debuts where him and Zayn have a staredown or something. I can see Steen busting out something like "I DON'T EVEN KNOW THIS GUY" when the crowd goes nuts.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well this did originally take over ECW, so the assimilation isn't too much of a stretch, haha.

Something could be played off of w/their history. Potentially not for a storyline, but maybe a random segment or something like that. They're pretty open w/their past successes, so we'll see. The filter on Steen is something to consider. Of course, language wise, it will be there. But how much else will be contained? Will he be what he was for the past few years, will he be Wrestling's Worst Nightmare? Plenty of fun questions to wonder. All I know is, I'm very excited.

Enzo & Cass in that video :done


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've had that thought about Steen too. Think he'll be in some segments where we're thinking "shit, was he supposed to say that?" which should be fun. Hooray to hearing him on high quality microphones now too. :side:

:lmao ONE OF THOSE WORLD STAR BEATDOWNS WHERE YOU LOSE A SHOE


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I was under the impression that Mr. Cody was not a fan of Tyson Kidd. Especially when he isn't doing his babyface fast-paced high flying schtick. Pleasant surprise to see more people acknowledge that the man is more than just a bland workrate snob.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Mr. Jay-LK said:


> I was watching the Royal Rumble match from 2003 where Lesnar won.
> 
> I have a very, very BIG doubt.
> 
> ...


Maven is still technically in the 2001 Rumble dammit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

2002 :side:

and I believe Taker chucked him over the top rope anyways before the slaughter continued.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Taker is a beast in the 03 rumble.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WWE are never consistent with the elimination rule by someone not in the match/already eliminated. VADER cleared the ring after he was gone in 1996, and one of them was Shawn Michaels, so technically he shouldn't have won because he was gone :side: .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fans always have a better grasp on wrestling knowledge & their rules then the damn companies do. WHY ARE ALL OF THEM SO STUPID? I dunno. But we love it anyways.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Like the WCW refs not really knowing the rules properly for the Meng/Benoit 'Death Match(es)'.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*2006 PPV Rambles – End of Year Thoughts*

Phew, what a long PPV year 2006 was! A total of SIXTEEN PPV's, more than any previous year I've done so far, and I *think* it's the most ever? Even more than when we had 2 UK PPV's a year! Obviously ECW being a third brand bumped the numbers up, what with them having their own PPV in December, and the One Night Stand show too. Best way to sum up 2006? SMACKDOWN.

*PPV Wrestler of the Year*

So, as usual, I took a look at the top 10 matches for the year, and put a list together of all the workers and how many times they appeared. You wanna know who came out on top? MICK FOLEY & WILLIAM REGAL. Each with THREE appearances in the top 10!!! Guys like Benoit, Finlay, Undertaker even even Edge were close with 2 each. But Foley and Regal tied for #1 in 2006. That's awesome. Guess I gotta pick ONE guy though, right? Hmmm... well, Regal only had THREE PPV matches in 2006, and all three made the top 10. Foley had 4 matches, with 3 in the top 10 and one that was disappointing as hell. So I think in this case, 100% in the top 10 > 75% in the top 10. PPV Wrestler of the Year goes to REGAL :mark:. The match against Benoit is incredible. The match against Finlay is incredible. And the 4 way ladder match is incredible. Regal is incredible!!!

*PPV Match of the Year*

What a year for high end quality matches. And almost all of them came from SMACKDOWN. And right at the top of the pile is my PPV MOTY... The Undertaker Vs Kurt Angle at No Way Out!!! Such an incredible contest between the two. And it's only their SECOND BEST MATCH together too. That's fucking insane. Undertaker looked like a fucking GOD in the match, and Angle put in one of his better performances too, which is always good to see. What a way to kick off the Smackdown branded PPV's that year!!!

*PPV of the Year*

Ahh, PPV of the Year. Odds of it being a Smackdown show? Extremely fucking good . It is of course the masterpiece of a show called NO MERCY. A wonderful show from top to bottom, featuring such great matches as Helms Vs Hardy, Londrick Vs Stevens & Idol, Undertaker Vs Kennedy, Benoit Vs Regal and Finlay Vs Lashley Vs Booker Vs Batista. Smackdown should have gotten their own WrestleMania in 06. As for other shows that year... Smackdown RULES the list. All of their shows are in the top half, with only WrestleMania among them. The best Raw PPV is lower than the "worst" SD show!

*2006 PPV’s on the CAL SCALE:*

No Mercy - 22
WrestleMania - 20.5
Judgment Day - 18
No Way Out - 15
Armageddon - 14
The Great American Bash - 13
New Years Revolution - 11
Backlash - 9.5
SummerSlam - 9
Survivor Series - 8.5
One Night Stand - 8
December to Dismember - 5
Unforgiven - 3
Vengeance - 3
Royal Rumble - 2
Cyber Sunday - 1.5

Total - 163

*2006 PPV compared to 2000, 2001 and 2002, 2003, 2004 & 2005:*

http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/...02vs2003vs2004vs2005vs2006ppv_zps7db5abf4.png

*2006 PPV Matches Ranked:*



Spoiler: Matches



JBL Vs The Boogeyman - NO - -1 (Royal Rumble)
Booker T Vs Chris Benoit - - NO - -1 (No Way Out)
Bobby Lashley Vs Booker T - NO - -1 (Jugdment Day)
Jillian Hall Vs Melina - NO - -1 (Jugdment Day)
The Boogeyman Vs The Miz - NO - -1 (Armageddon)
Maria Vs Ashley Vs Candice Michelle Vs Victoria Vs Torrie Wilson - NO - -1 (New Years Revolution)
Kristal Vs Ashley Vs Michelle McCool Vs Jillian Hall - NO - -1 (The Great American Bash)
Jeff Hardy Vs Carlito - NO - -1 (Cyber Sunday)
The Spirit Squad Vs The Highlanders - NO - -1 (Unforgiven)
Candice Michelle Vs Torrie Wilson - NO - -1 (WrestleMania)
Booker T Vs The Boogeyman - NO - -1 (WrestleMania)
Booker T Vs Batista - DUD - 0 (Survivor Series)
Daivari Vs Tommy Dreamer - DUD - 0 (December to Dismember)
Balls Mahoney Vs Masato Tanaka - DUD - 0 (One Night Stand)
Elijah Burke & Sylvester Terkay Vs Little Guido Maritato & Tony Mamaluke - DUD - 0 (December to Dismember)
Edge Vs John Cena - DUD - 0 (Royal Rumble)
John Cena Vs Sabu - DUD - 0 (Vengeance)
Booker T Vs Batista - DUD - 0 (SummerSlam)
Kurt Angle Vs Mark Henry - DUD - 0 (Royal Rumble)
MVP Vs Marty Garner - DUD - 0 (No Mercy)
Lita Vs Mickie James - DUD - 0 (Cyber Sunday)
Mike Knox & Kelly Kelly Vs Kevin Thorn & Ariel - 1/4* - 0 (December to Dismember)
Mickie James Vs Ashley - 1/4* - 0 (Royal Rumble)
Kane Vs The Big Show - 1/4* - 0 (Backlash)
Umaga Vs Eugene - 1/4* - 0 (Vengeance)
The Spirit Squad Vs Ric Flair & Roddy Piper - 1/4* - 0 (Cyber Sunday)
John Cena Vs The Big Show Vs Booker T - 1/4* - 0 (Cyber Sunday)
Jerry Lawler Vs Tazz - 1/4* - 0 (One Night Stand)
Rey Mysterio Vs Booker T - 1/2* - 0 (The Great American Bash)
Rey Mysterio Vs Sabu - 1/2* - 0 (One Night Stand)
Rey Mysterio Vs Chavo Guerrero - 1/2* - 0 (No Mercy)
John Cena & Batista Vs Finlay & Booker T - 1/2* - 0 (Armageddon)
Edge Vs John Cena - * - 0 (Unforgiven)
Edge Vs John Cena - * - 0 (SummerSlam)
Randy Orton Vs Carlito - * - 0 (Unforgiven)
Johnny Nitro Vs Jeff Hardy - * - 0 (Unforgiven)
Carlito Vs Shelton Benjamin Vs Johnny Nitro - * - 0 (Vengeance)
Ric Flair Vs Edge - * - 0 (New Years Revolution)
Ric Flair, Dusty Rhodes, Ron Simmons & Sgt Slaughter Vs Kenny, Johnny, Nicky & Mikey - * - 0 (Survivor Series)
Shawn Michaels & Triple H Vs Randy Orton & Edge - * - 0 (Cyber Sunday)
John Cena Vs Shawn Michaels Vs Kurt Angle Vs Kane Vs Chris Masters Vs Carlito - * - 0 (New Years Revolution)
Hulk Hogan Vs Randy Orton - * - 0 (SummerSlam)
Rey Mysterio Vs Chavo Guerrero - * - 0 (SummerSlam)
John Cena Vs Edge - * - 0 (New Years Revolution)
Kurt Angle Vs Randy Orton Vs Rey Mysterio - * - 0 (WrestleMania)
RVD Vs Edge - * - 0 (Vengeance)
Chris Masters Vs Carlito - * - 0 (Backlash)
F.B.I. Vs Super Crazy & Tajiri - * - 0 (One Night Stand)
Ashley Vs Kristal Vs Layla Vs Jillian - * - 0 (Armageddon)
Lita Vs Mickie James - ** - 0.5 (Survivor Series)
Cryme Tyme Vs Viscera & Charlie Hass Vs The Highlanders Vs Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch - ** - 0.5 (Cyber Sunday)
Mickie James Vs Trish Stratus - ** - 0.5 (Backlash)
Umaga Vs Ric Flair - ** - 0.5 (Backlash)
Randy Orton Vs Kurt Angle - ** - 0.5 (One Night Stand)
DX Vs The Spirit Squad - ** - 0.5 (Vengeance)
Kane Vs Imposter Kane - ** - 0.5 (Vengeance)
Matt Hardy Vs Ric Flair Vs Finlay Vs Lashley Vs Shelton Benjamin Vs RVD - ** - 0.5 (WrestleMania)
John Cena Vs RVD - ** - 0.5 (One Night Stand)
Chris Benoit Vs Chavo Guerrero - **1/2 - 1 (Armageddon)
Chris Benoit Vs Chavo Guerrero - **1/2 - 1 (Survivor Series)
Matt Striker Vs Balls Mahoney - **1/2 - 1 (December to Dismember)
MNM Vs Matt Hardy & Tatanka - **1/2 - 1 (No Way Out)
Gregory Helms Vs Scotty 2 Hotty Vs Kid Kash Vs Psicosis Vs Super Crazy Vs Paul London Vs Nunzio Vs Brian Kendrick Vs Funaki - **1/2 - 1 (No Way Out)
Randy Orton Vs Kurt Angle - **1/2 - 1 (Vengeance)
Shelton Benjamin Vs Viscera - **1/2 - 1 (New Years Revolution)
The Big Show Vs Sabu - **1/2 - 1 (SummerSlam)
The Big Show & Kane Vs Carlito & Chris Masters - **1/2 - 1 (WrestleMania)
Kane Vs MVP - **1/2 - 1 (Armageddon)
The Undertaker Vs The Great Khali - **1/2 - 1 (Judgment Day)
The Undertaker Vs Mark Henry - **1/2 - 1 (WrestleMania)
Triple H, Shawn Michaels, CM Punk, Matt Hardy & Jeff Hardy Vs Edge, Randy Orton, Johnny Nitro, Gregory Helms & Mike Knox - **3/4 - 1 (Survivor Series)
Ric Flair Vs Mick Foley - **3/4 - 1 (Vengeance)
The Undertaker Vs The Big Show - **3/4 - 1 (The Great American Bash)
Kid Kash Vs Funaki Vs Jamie Noble Vs Nunzio Vs Paul London Vs Gregory Helms - **3/4 - 1 (Royal Rumble)
Lita Vs Trish Stratus - **3/4 - 1 (Unforgiven)
Umaga Vs Kane - **3/4 - 1 (Unforgiven)
JBL Vs Bobby Lashley - **3/4 - 1 (No Way Out)
The Big Show Vs CM Punk Vs RVD Vs Hardcore Holly Vs Test Vs Bobby Lashley – *** - 2 (December to Dismember)
John Cena, Kane, Bobby Lashley, Sabu & RVD Vs The Big Show, Finlay, Umaga, Test & MVP - *** - 2 (Survivor Series)
Jerry Lawler Vs Gregory Helms - *** - 2 (New Years Revolution)
Shawn Michaels Vs Vince McMahon - *** - 2 (WrestleMania)
Gregory Helms Vs Super Crazy - ***1/4 - 2 (Judgment Day)
Shawn Michaels & Triple H Vs Vince & Shane McMahon - ***14 - 2 (SummerSlam)
Umaga Vs Kane - ***1/4 - 2 (Cyber Sunday)
Kurt Angle Vs Mark Henry - ***1/4 - 2 (Judgment Day)
30 Man Royal Rumble Match - ***1/4 - 2 (Royal Rumble)
Shelton Benjamin Vs RVD - ***1/4 - 2 (Backlash)
Bryan Kendrick & Paul London Vs KC James & Idol Stevens - ***1/4 - 2 (No Mercy)
MNM Vs The Hardy Boys - ***1/4 - 2 (December to Dismember)
Batista Vs Mr Kennedy - ***1/4 - 2 (The Great American Bash)
Paul London & Brian Kendrick Vs The Pitbulls - ***1/4 - 2 (The Great American Bash)
Shawn Michaels & Triple H Vs Vince McMahon, Shane McMahon & The Big Show - ***1/4 - 2 (Unforgiven)
Gregory Helms Vs Jimmy Wang Yang - ***1/2 - 3 (Armageddon)
Gregory Helms Vs Matt Hardy - ***1/2 - 3 (The Great American Bash)
Trish Stratus Vs Mickie James - ***1/2 - 3 (New Years Revolution)
Trish Stratus Vs Mickie James - ***1/2 - 3 (WrestleMania)
John Bradshaw Layfield Vs Chris Benoit - ***1/2 - 3 (WrestleMania)
Shawn Michaels & God Vs Vince & Shane McMahon - ***1/2 - 3 (Backlash)
The Undertaker Vs Mr Kennedy - ***1/2 - 3 (Armageddon)
Rey Mysterio Vs JBL - ***3/4 - 4 (Judgment Day)
John Cena Vs Edge Vs Triple H - ***3/4 - 4 (Backlash)
Gregory Helms Vs Matt Hardy - ***3/4 - 4 (No Mercy)
MNM Vs Brian Kendrick & Paul London - ***3/4 - 4 (Judgment Day)
John Cena Vs Triple H - ***3/4 - 4 (WrestleMania)
The Undertaker Vs Mr Kennedy - ***3/4 - 4 (Survivor Series)
Booker T Vs Finlay Vs Bobby Lashley Vs Batista - ***3/4 - 4 (No Mercy)
Rey Mysterio Vs Randy Orton - **** - 5 (No Way Out)
Ric Flair Vs Mick Foley - ****1/4 - 6 (SummerSlam)
Triple H Vs The Big Show - ****1/4 - 6 (New Years Revolution)
The Undertaker Vs Mr Kennedy - ****1/4 - 6 (No Mercy)
William Regal Vs Chris Benoit - ****1/4 - 6 (No Mercy)
Finlay Vs William Regal - ****1/4 - 6 (The Great American Bash)
Mick Foley Vs Edge - ****1/2 - 7 (WrestleMania)
Paul London & Brian Kendrick Vs William Regal & Dave Taylor Vs The Hardy Boys Vs MNM - ****1/2 - 7 (Armageddon)
Edge, Mick Foley & Lita Vs Terry Funk, Tommy Dreamer & Beulah McGillicutty - ****1/2 - 7 (One Night Stand)
Chris Benoit Vs Finlay - ****1/2 - 7 (Judgment Day)
Kurt Angle Vs The Undertaker - ****3/4 - 8 (No Way Out)


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Great job, so you go onto 2007 now or just pick a new year randomly?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2007 is next up. Will be starting it sometime next week. All I know for sure is that Backlash will be the last show I talk about in 2007, since it's the best PPV of the year, AND will be my 100th PPV Ramble (not including my RR and WM ones I did prior to this, and ECW DTD that I also did just before)!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

In that case, you should start with Survivor Series. Great double Main Event (including the Orton/HBK classic) + very fun midcard = (Y) show.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

You are a fan of the four-way from Backlash? I see it getting praised a lot, should probably watch it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I fancy watching one or two Cena/Batista matches later i think, never seen any tbh. 

Gonna dig out Summerslam, Wrestlemania and their LMS (What was that, Extreme Rules).


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Fab Four said:


> I fancy watching one or two Cena/Batista matches later i think, never seen any tbh.
> 
> Gonna dig out Summerslam, Wrestlemania and their LMS (What was that, Extreme Rules).



Yea the Cena/Batista LMS match was at ER, their best match together IMO and one of the all time shockers for "whoa, how is this match THAT good??!" Heel Batista in 2010 was money though, big fan of that character and really knew how to work it into his matches.

Fuck. Think I'll join you and watch that match now :agree:


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I think their WM 26 match is a gem tbh.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

How have I never seen this before, quite possibly the greatest thing I've ever seen, was this a weekly segment on WCW ? Zep find them ASAP


btw The Fatal 4 at NXT was outstanding, all four guys brought it and more. Zayn and Kidd were flawless, yes Tyson Kidd control segments were awesome. Made everything work and everything was done with so much detail. Should of put the strap on Breeze or Zayn though

Bayley/Charlotte was pretty good as well, just rewatched it. Bayley :zayn3 that body and she is sensational, love the whole "girl-hood dream" thing they are doing with her. I love Charlotte by the default, THE GENE, the family linage :krillin tooo good


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Eva Marie said:


> How have I never seen this before, quite possibly the greatest thing I've ever seen, was this a weekly segment on WCW ? Zep find them ASAP


Not sure about a weekly thing, but i know throughout '93, there was lots of these segments with various wrestlers. Think it was something for Flair to do whilst he was waiting to wrestle in WCW again (Starrcade)

These are the ones i have anyway, some might already be online:

Flair for the Gold with the Hollywood Blonds (WCWSN 5/15/93)
Flair For the Gold: Vader & Harley Race (WCWSN 5/1/93)
Flair For the Gold: Arn Anderson (WCWSN 5/8/93)
Flair for the Gold with Rick Rude (WCWSN 5/22/93)
Flair For the Gold: The New Horseman (Slamboree 5/23/93)
Flair for the Gold: Sting (WCWSN 5/29/93)
Flair for the Gold with Johnny B. Badd (WCWSN 6/5/93)
Flair for the Gold: Col. Parker (WCWSN 6/19/93)
Flair for the Gold: Dusty Rhodes (WCWSN 6/26/93)
Flair For the Gold: Shockmaster Debut (Clash 8/18/93)
Flair For the Gold with Rick Rude (WCWSN 8/28/93)


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Yea the Cena/Batista LMS match was at ER, their best match together IMO and one of the all time shockers for "whoa, how is this match THAT good??!" Heel Batista in 2010 was money though, big fan of that character and really knew how to work it into his matches.
> 
> Fuck. Think I'll join you and watch that match now :agree:


I remember liking that match but for me the Summerslam '08 one will always be my favorite.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Fab Four said:


> Not sure about a weekly thing, but i know throughout '93, there was lots of these segments with various wrestlers. Think it was something for Flair to do whilst he was waiting to wrestle in WCW again (Starrcade)
> 
> These are the ones i have anyway, some might already be online:
> 
> ...


Awesome if you could put some of those up (Y) thanks very much, thought this was for the booking only for their clash match w/ the Blondes


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'll try and get a couple up next week. If any are already on YT/DM, ill post here too.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wanna ask this: Cal, do you still plan doing those End of Years videos?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No plans atm. Was going to, but every time I tried to make time something cropped up and I wasn't able to record. In the end I decided it would be pointless. Not sure what else I'd say that I didn't write in my end of year thoughts posts .

Need to start work on some more wrestling related videos though. Right now I'm coasting on Wrestling View with the WWR Classic eps since I did all 10 at once. 5 are online, leaving me with 5 weeks to get some more content ready. Spending too much time rebuilding BigCal.co.uk atm lol .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ok then .

Well, you could still talk about those PPV rambles in one way or another. Like, do something like the best of the 1st half of the 2000's decade (which would be 2000-2004) or something .


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Finally watched YJ2 vs HBK @ No Mercy. Amazing match, not the GOAT Ladder match that was Jericho/Benoit, but this is fantastic as well. Their best match together in their 2008 feud (and probably second best overall after WM19, afaik). Rest of 2008 should be about Cena beating twice and then Jericho moving down the card.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

What did you think of Jericho's two big cage matches that year?


----------



## Mike Smalling (Sep 30, 2005)

Currently watching Orton vs Triple H vs Big Show vs Cena from RAW 09'.

Interrupting Orton's reign with the Batista victory in 09' was a stupid thing to do, the only thing it did in helping Orton was add an extra title to his resume, it would have been better if it was a single uninterrupted reign :side:


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> What did you think of Jericho's two big cage matches that year?


Haven't watched the Batista one yet, but I really liked the match against Punk.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Can someone link me or post that Mick Foley promo before his match against Orton? One where he brought back Cactus Jack and "Barbie"?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

RAVEN said:


> Can someone link me or post that Mick Foley promo before his match against Orton? One where he brought back Cactus Jack and "Barbie"?


Can't see it online. I know it was the 5th April Raw episode. I have it but can't upload until next week. If you can't wait, maybe Cal can help. 

Edit: Found it here

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1t7okt_mick-foley-promo-about-randy-orton-4-5-2004_creation


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Good old DM. Saves me time with uploading because most stuff is already there .


----------



## Mike Smalling (Sep 30, 2005)

Wow, Orton was an absolute boss in the 07'-09' time frame, the question is will he ever return to that kind of form ever again


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*WCW Bash At the Beach 1997*

*Glacier & Ernest Miller vs. Mortis & Wrath (w/James Vandenberg)* *** _Thought this was really good, very enjoyable IMO._
*WCW Cruiserweight Champion Chris Jericho vs. Ultimo Dragon* ***1/2 _Crowd chanted "We want Syxx" at one point, morons, this was a damn fine match. WCW crowds arn't always the best, or smartest though._
*Rick & Scott Steiner vs. Great Muta & Masahiro Chono* *1/4 _ANOTHER FUCKING NO.1 CONTENDERS MATCH LOL. Just defend the damn belts NWO, for crying out loud. Steiners must have won about 20 of these damn 'contenders matches'_ 
*Juventud Guerrera, Hector Garza & Lizmark Jr. vs. Villano IV, La Parka & Psychosis* ***
*No-DQ Career Match: Chris Benoit vs. Kevin Sullivan (w/Jacqueline & Jimmy Hart)* *1/2 _This feud is fucking over, thank fuck. Sullivan hopefully fucks off screen now._
*WCW U.S. Champion Jeff Jarrett vs. Steve McMichael (w/Debra)* DUD _US title huh? WCW must have employed over 300 wrestlers at this point, and this is the best you can do?_
*Curt Hennig & Diamond Dallas Page (w/Kimberly) vs. Scott Hall & Randy Savage (w/Elizabeth)* ** _Hennig debuted the week before, made his PPV debut here, and turned on Page after about 10 minutes lol._
*Roddy Piper vs. Ric Flair* ** _Harmless enough, but piper would leave i think after this, so Flair didn't really fully turn heel, of course Piper would be back soon enough. But they had this feud, which i still don't know why, or how, it really started, just from nonsensical promos. Oh, and no Malenko or Guerrero on this PPV, thanks to stuff like this id imagine._
*The Giant & Lex Luger vs. Hollywood Hogan & Dennis Rodman (w/Randy Savage)* *


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

RAVEN said:


> Can someone link me or post that Mick Foley promo before his match against Orton? One where he brought back Cactus Jack and "Barbie"?


It's available in WWE's site but the idiots cut it off just as he's about to reintroduce "Barbie". Good thing zep found it because I've been looking for it. Sick ass promo.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

That promo is just one of many, many reasons I consider Foley the best ever on the mic. No, he didn't have catch phrases like the Rock, and he wasn't machine gun quick with his put downs like Roddy Piper, nor was he as funny as Steve Austin, but what he was was the most intense, believable, smart, and goosebump inducing speaker of any wrestler I've ever heard. His 1997 sit down interview with JR is a work of performance art, and the ECW anti hardcore promos are pretty well regarded as the best promos of all time. Even stuff like his transformation in Cactus Jack in 2000 is classic, classic stuff. The only people I put in his class are non wrestlers like Heyman and Heenan.

For wrestlers only, I'd rank the best speakers like this:

1. Foley
2. Flair
3. Austin
4. Piper
5. Dusty

With Heyman/Heenan being in a class all their own as the best non wrestling orators of all time. Heyman deserves extra credit because he's the only non wrestler I can think of who gets to "main event" or close Raw with a promo and causes all the fans to leave happy. That's nuts, that the main event can just be a middle aged portly Jew coming down to the ring and just speaking his mind and all the fans love it. Wake me when that ever happens agan.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

The Fab Four said:


> Can't see it online. I know it was the 5th April Raw episode. I have it but can't upload until next week. If you can't wait, maybe Cal can help.
> 
> Edit: Found it here
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1t7okt_mick-foley-promo-about-randy-orton-4-5-2004_creation


You're the GOAT Zep :mark::mark:



Choke2Death said:


> It's available in WWE's site but the idiots cut it off just as he's about to reintroduce "Barbie". Good thing zep found it because I've been looking for it. Sick ass promo.


Yeah been looking for it for some time too. I love that promo where he reintroduces Cactus Jack ahead of his HHH match at the 2000 Rumble, but I remember watching this one against Orton as a child and loving it. Great stuff.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That promo is just one of many, many reasons I consider Foley the best ever on the mic. No, he didn't have catch phrases like the Rock, and he wasn't machine gun quick with his put downs like Roddy Piper, nor was he as funny as Steve Austin, but what he was was the most intense, believable, smart, and goosebump inducing speaker of any wrestler I've ever heard. His 1997 sit down interview with JR is a work of performance art, and the ECW anti hardcore promos are pretty well regarded as the best promos of all time. Even stuff like his transformation in Cactus Jack in 2000 is classic, classic stuff. The only people I put in his class are non wrestlers like Heyman and Heenan.
> 
> For wrestlers only, I'd rank the best speakers like this:
> 
> ...


Foley is the most versatile speaker on the mic ever imo. And Heyman maybe. Such a wide range. Been going through some of his promos today. Unbelievable stuff.














kada


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I still have Jericho as the most versatile mic worker of all time, and Rock as the GOAT. But Mick is the best at putting his heart on his sleeve and getting people behind him. My only problem with Foley's mic work is that he sometimes overdoes the quiet-loud-quiet pattern to the point where it becomes meaningless. Very small issue, but it shouldn't take away from his ability to find the right thing to say and right gestures to make every time.

If anyone is in the mood for a short and fun match, go watch Ken Shamrock fight Jeff Jarrett while wearing a straightjacket.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I still have Jericho as the most versatile mic worker of all time, and Rock as the GOAT. But Mick is the best *at putting his heart on his sleeve and getting people behind him*. My only problem with Foley's mic work is that he sometimes overdoes the quiet-loud-quiet pattern to the point where it becomes meaningless. Very small issue, but it shouldn't take away from his ability to find the right thing to say and right gestures to make every time.
> 
> If anyone is in the mood for a short and fun match, go watch Ken Shamrock fight Jeff Jarrett while wearing a straightjacket.


:flair3

I'd go 

Flair
Savage (Massive fan of his promos OH YEAAAA)
Rocky
Foley
Austin
Arn

Seriously I love Foley/SCSA etc on the stick, but I just got Naitch so far above everyone else, just brought out every emotion in his promos, ya laughed,cheered,pumped up, and you took it serious at times. One of the biggest misconceptions I see in the sub forum and some wrestling fans altogether is that all he did was scream and scream when that is the farthest from the truth


Also another guy I always loved when I was younger was Kevin Nash specifically WCW-NWO days, idk but I loved the guy's promos


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

As far as wrestlers go, nobody touches Foley on the mic for me. Almost everyone else found a comfort zone and stayed in it, whereas Mick just did whatever the fuck he wanted depending on the situation.

Heyman over the last couple of years pretty much overtook every non wrestler on the mic, not even Heenan matches him now imo.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Hogan is not my favorite talker, but these are hands down the GOAT promos:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Foley is in my top 10 mic workers but the reason I don't like him as much is he screams too much at times and it comes across as trying too hard and unnecessary. One of these examples that had me laughing is the JR interview where he's "provoked", he just starts screaming nonsense when he's holding JR by his clothes which was reminiscent of this absolutely fucking hilarious video to me.

Heyman is above everyone else and simply untouchable. But for wrestlers, it's Rock, Austin and Flair in the top 3. Everyone else is at least somewhat below them.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

On the mic, I had Foley as number 1 for the longest time. Even his screaming that Choke2Death mentioned... it always worked for me. I felt it and he convinced me, where as a guy like, say, HHH, whenever he screams or displays anger either works fine, or feels way too forced. I can't recall a promo of Foley's where whatever he was doing felt forced (even if he himself was).

Other than him, other guys I have near the top are Jericho (the guy just seems to be able to do anything), Austin (best trash talker in the business... and can be just as hilarious too), Rock (on pure comedy, it's hard to beat him), Flair (when the man's on point, he's arguably untouchable and that alone brings him into the conversation as the GOAT mic worker), and Punk (he's kind of like a Jericho-lite, less on the comedy side but more on the serious side, and he can cut a passionate promo better than almost anyone).

But no one touches Heyman as far as all-time mic workers though, and his promo work the past couple of years has put him above Foley, for me. The man just knocks it out of the park every single night. He delivers the GOAT victory speeches and he can build a promo extremely well... or as well as it can be built (like even though I disliked the feud, his promo putting over how big it was that Taker went 21-0 by comparing it to how many wins in a row other guys could get was extremely well down). His speech on Brock conquering the streak the night after might be the all-time greatest promo that I've seen... maybe. It's definitely up there as a top 5. The man really can't do any wrong. I think he's just so amazing that even if he tried to cut an awful promo, it'd still end up really good and maybe even hilarious. I don't know if he tried to make this one awful, but the Warrior-esque promo he cut during the Punk feud comes to mind. Almost anyone else tries cutting that promo and it wouldn't work (even most of the guys I mentioned above). Heyman does it and he does a really good job on it. It's like a carry-job on the mic with himself. He can have awful material and because of his delivery of it, he can make it sound a lot better than it actually is.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*My top five mic workers:

Foley
Roberts
Flair
Rocky
Jericho

Austin, Heyman, Vince and Lawler (especially in the clips of Memphis I've seen.) are somewhere in there too. This might get me flack, but Angle in his WWE run was also one hell of a mic worker--he has impeccable comedic timing and his later intense promos are also quality stuff.*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Put together a Custom disc of the Cactus Jack/Vader feud:

Cactus Jack vs. Paul Orndorff (Street Fight) (WCW Main Event 01/10/1993)
Vader, Barry Windham, & Paul Orndorff vs. Sting & Dustin Rhodes (Thundercage) (WCW Clash of the Champions XXII 01/13/1993)
Cactus Jack vs. Vader (WCW Main Event 03/07/1993)
Cactus Jack vs. Vader (Full Unedited Version from Mick Foley DVD)/Vader/Harley Race Interview/Match Aftermath (WCW Saturday Night 04/17/1993)
Cactus Jack Interview (WCW Saturday Night 4/24/1993)
Cactus Jack vs. Vader (Super Grudge Match) (WCW Saturday Night - 04/24/1993)
Cactus Jack Interview (WCW Saturday Night 10/23/1993)
Cactus Jack vs. Vader (Texas Death Match) (WCW Halloween Havoc 10/24/1993)
Cactus Jack vs. Vader (WCW House Show 03/16/1994)
Cactus Jack vs. Vader (WCW Worldwide 04/30/1994)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Fab Four said:


> Put together a Custom disc of the Cactus Jack/Vader feud:
> 
> Cactus Jack vs. Paul Orndorff (Street Fight) (WCW Main Event 01/10/1993)
> Vader, Barry Windham, & Paul Orndorff vs. Sting & Dustin Rhodes (Thundercage) (WCW Clash of the Champions XXII 01/13/1993)
> ...


I haven't seen the 3/7/93 Main Event match or the "Super Grudge" match from Saturday Night 4/24/93, are those any good? 

I love the 4/17/93 match although it does actually make me a bit uncomfortable watching it, I guess that was the goal though of doing the match like that. I REALLY love their Halloween Havoc match and the World Wide match might be the best of the bunch even if it's the shortest.

Cactus vs Vader feud is awesome, it's a shame they didn't let them continue after the ear incident that could have really given it another boost and led to another 1-2 PPV matches easy.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Remember that AWESOME Shield run for about 2-3 months where they were constantly having tremendous matches on free TV on a weekly basis? I suddenly have an itch to go back and watch that run, starting with the six-man tag vs. Team Hell No & The Undertaker.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Yeah, The Shield's consistency was off the chain last year and well, always up until they broke up.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I haven't seen the 3/7/93 Main Event match or the "Super Grudge" match from Saturday Night 4/24/93, are those any good?
> 
> I love the 4/17/93 match although it does actually make me a bit uncomfortable watching it, I guess that was the goal though of doing the match like that. I REALLY love their Halloween Havoc match and the World Wide match might be the best of the bunch even if it's the shortest.
> 
> Cactus vs Vader feud is awesome, it's a shame they didn't let them continue after the ear incident that could have really given it another boost and led to another 1-2 PPV matches easy.


4/24/93 is just as good as 4/17/93, IIRC.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

RatedR10 said:


> Remember that AWESOME Shield run for about 2-3 months where they were constantly having tremendous matches on free TV on a weekly basis? I suddenly have an itch to go back and watch that run, starting with the six-man tag vs. Team Hell No & The Undertaker.


I forgot the official date but the Shield vs Bryan/Kane/Kofi one is amazing.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

I helped raise funds for a documentary on "The Russian Bear" Ivan Koloff. We reached our goal on Kickstarter so I want to thank everybody on here who made a contribution to the project. The DVD is set for a February 2015 release date.

Its from the same guy who made Rock-N-Roll Never Dies: The Story of the Rock-N-Roll Express and Harley Race: The Greatest Wrestler On God's Green Earth!

- Vic


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I have been meaning to purchase that Harley Race DVD. Heard good things. 

Watching Dean Malenko V Rey Mysterio from Halloween Havoc 96. Forgot how great their matches were. Have not seen this one in ages. Super fun. 



The Fab Four said:


> Put together a Custom disc of the Cactus Jack/Vader feud:
> 
> Cactus Jack vs. Paul Orndorff (Street Fight) (WCW Main Event 01/10/1993)
> Vader, Barry Windham, & Paul Orndorff vs. Sting & Dustin Rhodes (Thundercage) (WCW Clash of the Champions XXII 01/13/1993)
> ...


:mark:


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Brye said:


> I forgot the official date but the Shield vs Bryan/Kane/Kofi one is amazing.


May 20. It's on my list to watch it again. I had it as a TV MOTYC. My entire list in the set to watch is:

- EC: The Shield vs. John Cena & Sheamus & Ryback.
- WM29: The Shield vs. Big Show & Randy Orton & Sheamus.
- 4/22: The Shield vs. The Undertaker & Kane & Daniel Bryan.
- 4/29: The Shield vs. John Cena & Kane & Daniel Bryan.
- 5/10: Dean Ambrose vs. Daniel Bryan.
- 5/13: The Shield vs. John Cena & Kane & Daniel Bryan in an elimination tag team match.
- 5/20: The Shield vs. Kofi Kingston & Kane & Daniel Bryan.
- 5/24: The Shield vs. Kofi Kingston & Sheamus & Randy Orton.
- 5/27: Roman Reigns & Seth Rollins vs. Kane & Daniel Bryan in a Tag Title match.
- 5/31: Seth Rollins vs. Kane. Roman Reigns vs. Daniel Bryan. Dean Ambrose vs. Randy Orton.
- 6/3: The Shield vs. Randy Orton & Kane & Daniel Bryan.
- 6/7: Roman Reigns & Seth Rollins vs. Randy Orton & Daniel Bryan.
- 6/10: Roman Reigns vs. Randy Orton. Seth Rollins vs. Daniel Bryan.
- 6/14: The Shield vs. Randy Orton & Kane & Daniel Bryan.
- MITB: Roman Reigns & Seth Rollins vs. The Usos in a Tag Title match.

And then all those battles segued into some great TV matches with Orton and Bryan. 2013 WWE pre-SummerSlam was some good shit for quality TV matches with The Shield, Bryan, Kane & Orton being a big part of that.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

RatedR10 said:


> May 20. It's on my list to watch it again. I had it as a TV MOTYC. My entire list in the set to watch is:
> 
> - EC: The Shield vs. John Cena & Sheamus & Ryback.
> - WM29: The Shield vs. Big Show & Randy Orton & Sheamus.
> ...


It's absurd how many good matches they had in such little time. And they rounded off the post Summerslam run nearly as strong.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

About to start my first 2007 PPV Ramble. Outside of RR, WM, and a handful of main events, I ain't seen shit from this year on PPV since it happened, probably . Based on memory, most of these shows seem like they'll be one match shows, two at most. Oh well, time to dive in...


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

yay


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm guessing either Survivor Series or One Night Stand you're doing?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

There was a One Night Stand in 2007? :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They had a few One Night Stand shows after the ECW ones, which eventually became Extreme Rules.

And I'm watching Vengeance Night of Champions (because ONE PPV name wasn't enough apparently!!!) . 3 matches to go, taking a break before I get into Edge/Batista.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Card sounds terrible.


----------



## Mike Smalling (Sep 30, 2005)

funnyfaces1 said:


> There was a One Night Stand in 2007? :lmao


IIRC that was the night when Orton was solidly established (in mind) as "The Viper", he lost a match to Van Dam and then proceeded to obliterate RVD anyway, the "Legend-Killer" began a slow death that day which culminated in today's Orton :mark:

Oh and John Cena faced Khali in the main event. 0/10


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Edge/Batista from Vengeance 2007 is excellent. Rest of the card... MehstleMania. As a matter of fact, that whole period of PPV's from Judgment Day to Unforgiven (except the decentish Great American Bash) is one giant black hole that I wanna wipe out from memory.

And yes ff, there was a ONS in 2007. Orton/RVD Stretcher and Hardys/WGTT Ladder as the highlights. I believe there's some Tables match too that I liked. Hated everything else. Hear some people liked the Edge/Batista Cage match, don't count me in on those tbh.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Brye said:


> It's absurd how many good matches they had in such little time. And they rounded off the post Summerslam run nearly as strong.


It's a run I don't think will ever be replicated. At least not for a long time. Started watching the first 4-5 matches and they were able to keep it fresh every time. 

The six-man tag obsession WWE has should have ended when The Shield ended. They don't have the same magic.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

So, just got to watch Takeover II, which was a very good show (as you may have heard *winkwink*nudgenudge*) After EC, WM, and maybe Arrival and RR, it was the most enjoyable PPV of the year for me. Opener was solid, I couldn't care less for the Ascension, but Cara and Kalisto were very good. A little botchy (especially from Vic/Ric Richter/Victor) but a solid opener. Squash matches were fun. Kenta/Itami had me grinning from ear-to-ear, and reading the responses after the show, I have a lot of confidence in him going forward. Itami/Regal tag team, puleeze:mark: Not a big fan of Enzo/Cass, but they did what they were supposed to, and made for a nice change up. Sylvester LeFort, though:lol Guy cracks me the hell up. The ME was very good - probably* ***3/4* for me. Something was missing, and the botches didn't help, but I thoroughly enjoyed it. Those matches are tricky, but they pulled it off nicely. 

Charlotte/Bayley was fantastic as well. Bayley is straight out of Nick Jr. and undoubtably adorable, but fuck me - Charlotte has got it. Perfectly opposes Bayley and plays a solid heel. She's imposing at her size, and with her technique/athleticism, she really could have big things in the future. I'm ready to sing her praises from the mountain top, but I know she still needs work. Still though, she's 80-90% there already, and really only needs more reps in front of live crowds. Loved it: *****1/2* on the women's scale, and ****1/2* in real life There were a couple awkward moments - like the rope-assisted knee drop - but just like the School Boy into the turnbuckle, I'm sure it'll improve in time. Strong contender for WMOTY. Excited for both of these two; probably the best psychology and storytelling from a women's match this year.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone think we may get Brock in a fresh matchup between now and Mania, if Bryan doesn't come back in the meantime?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

^^^^ I have a feeling Orton is going to punt Jericho back to Fozzy, turn on the Authority and we'll get Brock/Orton at Survivor Series. I hope so. That's a _very _fresh match for both guys. 

I was surprised at Neville retaining in the 4 way but the more I think about it, the more I'm OK with it. I thought Zayn had this one but I have no problem at all with them building up to a Zayn win for the next live special to round out the year most likely. Neville vs. Zayn. Bring it on. ****** from me for the 4 way. Itami debut was done really well. Charlotte/Bayley was just OK for me. I liked it but I definitely think Charlotte/Natalya was a million times better. I like Bayley and she's easy to root for but I find the gimmick a bit childish at times tbh. There's a ton to look forward to with the women though. I'd like to see Charlotte, Bayley and Sasha mix it up. Also can we talk about how fucking :mark: ENZO is on the mic. Charisma out his ears this guy has. Granted, the match was shit, but I don't even care. Stick a mic in his hands and I'm sold. I think I prefer Takeover I to this show but both of them are highly enjoyable. I've decided to finally watch Arrival when I get the Network next month.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'd still love Sheamus/Lesnar but they've been so directionless with Sheamus that they definitely don't have any plans of doing it. He'd have to be booked very strong in the coming months and maybe get a shot at RR or something.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

RAVEN said:


> You're the GOAT Zep :mark::mark:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mick was the man on the mic. I wish I was born earlier just so I could have realized his greatness in his prime.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Foley's a bit too screamy for me at times. He plays a nifty demented freak though, equally as well as he plays the affable funny guy too. But when he starts GETTING VERY LOUD and then gets soft AND THEN LOUD AGAIN it can come off a bit cartoony. Then again a lot of guys are the same. It's the business they're in.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Lesnar vs. Orton seems like it'll be in line to happen at HIAC or Survivor Series. Depends what they do with Orton. Obviously, he's against Jericho to set him back on track and give him a "big" win, but it depends on what they do afterwards and if they put Orton/Reigns inside the Cell.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bryan Danielson vs Munenori Sawa (Evolve 5) * * * * 

Excellent match. A really stiff, hard hitting encounter, with some great strikes and submissions. Highly recommended.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

By the way, while watching these Shield matches again, I have to say Roman Reigns is a far better worker as a heel than as a face. The guy is a great trash talker and his moveset is larger as a heel. I'm far more impressed with Reigns as a heel worker over a face worker.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

RatedR10 said:


> Lesnar vs. Orton seems like it'll be in line to happen at HIAC or Survivor Series. Depends what they do with Orton. Obviously, he's against Jericho to set him back on track and give him a "big" win, but it depends on what they do afterwards and if they put Orton/Reigns inside the Cell.


I don't think they'll waste Orton in yet _another_ match with Reigns. The reason they randomly stopped the feud is to protect Orton from putting over inferior talent at his own expense for a while. The feud can only go one way and it was smart of them to stop it like that. If they wanted to have more than one PPV match between them, Orton should have won the first but they blew their chance there and had no choice but to move them away from each other for their best interests.

I can definitely see Orton vs Brock taking place at Survivor Series, specially if it's true that Randy is unhappy and wants time off. He's been floating around most of the year and I can understand his need for a break when they're not using him for anything anyways. Might as well get a big money, fresh match-up out of him and give him his time off. I wouldn't mind seeing him face Rollins at WM although I think he needs to WIN a damn match at WM for once.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Anyone up for a favorite 'obscure' theme song discussion?! These have gotta be my favorites.
















3rd one might not be as obscure but goddamn it's amazing.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I loved Deuce 'n Domino's theme. :lmao I forgot all about it until Domino randomly followed me on Twitter. I went back to listen to the theme and I loved it. :lmao



Choke2Death said:


> I don't think they'll waste Orton in yet _another_ match with Reigns. The reason they randomly stopped the feud is to protect Orton from putting over inferior talent at his own expense for a while. The feud can only go one way and it was smart of them to stop it like that. If they wanted to have more than one PPV match between them, Orton should have won the first but they blew their chance there and had no choice but to move them away from each other for their best interests.
> 
> I can definitely see Orton vs Brock taking place at Survivor Series, specially if it's true that Randy is unhappy and wants time off. He's been floating around most of the year and I can understand his need for a break when they're not using him for anything anyways. Might as well get a big money, fresh match-up out of him and give him his time off. I wouldn't mind seeing him face Rollins at WM although I think he needs to WIN a damn match at WM for once.


I'd have the match at HIAC (please God don't make me sit through Cena in the title picture for another month), and have him written off. Then come back as a face at the Rumble and set up a program with Rollins and taking on The Authority for not having his back against Lesnar, who was "plan C" the entire time. The story being The Authority moving on from Orton and putting everything in Rollins and Lesnar.

Set up a rematch at EC between Lesnar/Orton, which is closer, but Rollins costs Orton and then set up Rollins vs. Orton at WM.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

RatedR10 said:


> I'd have the match at HIAC (please God don't make me sit through Cena in the title picture for another month), and have him written off. Then come back as a face at the Rumble and set up a program with Rollins and taking on The Authority for not having his back against Lesnar, who was "plan C" the entire time. The story being The Authority moving on from Orton and putting everything in Rollins and Lesnar.
> 
> Set up a rematch at EC between Lesnar/Orton, which is closer, but Rollins costs Orton and then set up Rollins vs. Orton at WM.


I love this idea, if done correctly.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Loved Cor Von's theme


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I remember the mass confusion at Cor Von's theme considering what he was before coming into WWE. It was hilarious.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

RatedR10 said:


> I'd have the match at HIAC (please God don't make me sit through Cena in the title picture for another month), and have him written off. Then come back as a face at the Rumble and set up a program with Rollins and taking on The Authority for not having his back against Lesnar, who was "plan C" the entire time. The story being The Authority moving on from Orton and putting everything in Rollins and Lesnar.
> 
> Set up a rematch at EC between Lesnar/Orton, which is closer, but Rollins costs Orton and then set up Rollins vs. Orton at WM.


The reason Survivor Series is being suggested is because it's in Orton's hometown which creates the perfect atmosphere should they have the match there.

Rematch against Lesnar is :mark: worthy, though. Yeah, I am that greedy.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao I decided to take a slight gander at RAW and lo and behold, Seth Rollins is acting like a gorilla. And to make matters funnier, they're having a scheduled PPV match on the go-home RAW. Did we teleport back to 1998?

EDIT: And Roman Reigns wins? Is the WWE making me not like Roman?


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Seriously just fuck this company. Why the fuck does Reigns beat Rollins clean on the go home RAW!?

Makes ZERO sense especially because they fight on PPV after six days. Rollins only got pinned once after turning (by Slater and that wasn't clean) and now this horseshit.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I thought Reigns/Rollins tonight was good, though it makes their match this Sunday seem pointless. Oh well, I'm getting hyped for Ambrose's return :mark:


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

Obscure Wrestling Themes: 
I think I put Cor Von's theme on my iPod at one time or another. 
Mordecai's theme was some cool shit, which kind makes me wish he stuck around for more than 2-3 matches.

Anyone remember Kevin Nash's TNA Dre theme? :lmao :lmao.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Rollins/Reigns wasn't bad tonight, would go ** on it. The clean finish killed the match at NOC and the Ambrose/Rollins payoff for me. It doesn't even feel like it matters anymore if Ambrose beats Rollins. Rollins just got beat, fair and square... and by a man who didn't need/deserve it as much as Ambrose did.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Henry/Rusev segment main evented Raw. :mark:


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Damnit I believe in this roster to put on a good product because we have all seen it happen when this group is fully healthy and in full force but the booking and creative right now is abysmal to the point where these last strings of Raw coming out of SS have been nothing short of painful. Real simple shit could've fixed this build too: Build Henry with some badass qualities and let him roll instead of making him a larger substitute for Swagger and giving him generic material. DONT COAST ON ROLLIN's BRIEFCASE OUT OF LAZINESS AND KILL THE POTENTIAL MOMENTUM OF ROLLINS/Ambrose (which I remind was a white hot feud). That was ugly because now even when Brose gets his, the steam has been taken out a bit since Reigns has already "got" Rollins clean as a whistle and now it will seem like Brose is scrap picking. Don't get me started on this treatment of the Wyatt Family and bless Heyman for trying but this content has just obliterated the grand start Lesnar/Cena had as a program since this has been lumped into Cena revenge story 1,000. Orton has been mishandled. I understand no Bryan derailed alot of energy but cmon man this stuff isn't unfathomable. It really is crazy the superiority in flow to a show (albeit 1 hour) and how much better at building NXT is. The difference in management and right now quality is very stark. Sorry for complaining but this irks me when watching for three hours with no wish to stop watching. I just want competent wrestling and I see a roster where that CAN happen but right now it isn't and I can't just say it is all because of no Bryan/BNB


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WrestlingOracle said:


> Damnit I believe in this roster to put on a good product because we have all seen it happen when this group is fully healthy and in full force but the booking and creative right now is abysmal to the point where these last strings of Raw coming out of SS have been nothing short of painful. Real simple shit could've fixed this build too: Build Henry with some badass qualities and let him roll instead of making him a larger substitute for Swagger and giving him generic material. DONT COAST ON ROLLIN's BRIEFCASE OUT OF LAZINESS AND KILL THE POTENTIAL MOMENTUM OF ROLLINS/Ambrose (which I remind was a white hot feud). That was ugly because now even when Brose gets his, the steam has been taken out a bit since Reigns has already "got" Rollins clean as a whistle and now it will seem like Brose is scrap picking. Don't get me started on this treatment of the Wyatt Family and bless Heyman for trying but this content has just obliterated the grand start Lesnar/Cena had as a program since this has been lumped into Cena revenge story 1,000. Orton has been mishandled. I understand no Bryan derailed alot of energy but cmon man this stuff isn't unfathomable. It really is crazy the superiority in flow to a show (albeit 1 hour) and how much better at building NXT is. The difference in management and right now quality is very stark. Sorry for complaining but this irks me when watching for three hours with no wish to stop watching. I just want competent wrestling and I see a roster where that CAN happen but right now it isn't and I can't just say it is all because of no Bryan/BNB


Basically this x 1 billion.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

It's unbelievable that with such a sick roster, on the flagship wrestling company, we can't get good storylines. Creative is possibly at an all time low. It's like they play the same mad libs sheet over and over again just putting different names in different places. And then you see NXT, with two hours less time, advancing multiple good feuds a week.

I don't get it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Stopping in here for a bit. Good to see all the positive feedback from another NXT special. I may get around to watching that sometime. Main event seems to be getting a shit ton of praise.

So they ran Reigns vs. Rollins tonight on RAW when they're having the exact same match at Night of Champions this weekend huh? Pretty fuckin stupid. Reading the results, this booking looks to make little sense atm. Can't believe the Wyatts got left off the NOC card. First time this year.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Reigns beat Rollins clean on Raw? WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THIS COMPANY?!?! I cannot fucking believe that. I guess now is as good a time as any for me to stop watching wrestling.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Yeah WWE pretty much confirmed that I don't need to throw NOC on my laptop while I watch the Panthers game Sunday.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I think I'm gonna take a break from watching regularly until RTWM and only watch PPVs (if they interest me). I mean, way to shit on Ambrose, WWE. 

I guess it helps that I have a class from 6-8:50 on Mondays anyway


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Does The Brood count as an obscure theme because :mark:.






I used to get scared when I was a kid and Gangrel would spit the blood everywhere. Then Taker would come out and I'd be even more scared :lol. 

Raw was a pile of shit. I'm usually one of the more lenient people when it comes to my wrasslin but I can't excuse it. Completely worthless show and don't even get me started on Reigns/Rollins. I don't even hate the guy but the past month has turned me off Reigns to the point that I'm starting to want to see him fail. It's too much and he isn't ready. Fuck that shit. Awful booking. I'm hoping that network subs are up for the October PPV so they start giving a crap again. NXT is the only show that seems to have any life about it right now. Coincidentally it's the only show that I bother to watch and look forward to. I wonder why.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

So they are doing Reigns/Rollins at NOC, so they did that match last night, 6 days before the PPV, and with Ambrose returning next week, they chose to let Reigns beat Rollins clean on Raw, a week before all this takes place?

Even typing that makes me facepalm.

And NOC was supposed to get the Network numbers up, yeah.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Will most likely be the first PPV since Survivor Series 2013 I won't watch live. No need to stay up until 5 am for this.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm annoyed because I was actually looking forward to Rollins/Reigns with a potential Ambrose return and all hell breaking loose. Now I don't give a shit. Reigns already beat Seth. What's the point in having a match where a lot of people want to see the bad guy get his redemption lol? It's so ass backwards that you have to laugh. The whole show just felt really off to me. Waste of damn time. 

I don't think I've watched a full PPV since Extreme Rules. I've seen bits and pieces of Payback and bits and pieces of Summerslam but I can't recall seeing anything from the middle PPV's. I don't even know what they are. I don't think I'll bother with NOC either tbh outside of Lesnar/Cena.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

And if Cena wins, then I just don't know anymore.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cena to win and Rollins to cash in and then lose at HIAC.

:vince2

Hunter wasn't on Raw. Given how awful it was maybe he wasn't even in the building. The whole show reeked of Vince not having anybody to talk him out of doing a bunch of stupid shit. Dunn probably got a boner watching Reigns and Show dominate.

The Cena/Lesnar brawl was great though. I know it wasn't but it really came across as a real scrap. I reckon Cena caught Brock in the face too which BORK didn't seem to happy about lol. He's going to pay for that on Sunday :lol.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

The good stuff:

- Bo vs Swagger was a pretty good short match despite the abrupt ending of their feud.
- The six-man tag was the MOTN (not a classic obviously but it was great, imo). Although the Usos nosold their injuries.
- The Cena/Lesnar brawl was :mark:, great stuff. I actually think Lesnar will retain now.

rest was pretty shit, I actually thought Henry main eventing would be cool, but that segment was utter garbage and I can't imagine Americans enjoying that


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The only thing missing from the Cena/Lesnar/Heyman angle was the revelation of Lesnar being Cena's father .


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

By the way, with the Reigns/Rollins talk here, last night was the first time we got "Let's go [Roman's opponent]/Let's go Reigns" chant exchange. Yeah, three months after The Shield's split and Roman's push. And in fucking Lafayette.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

PGSucks said:


> I think I'm gonna take a break from watching regularly until RTWM and only watch PPVs (if they interest me). I mean, way to shit on Ambrose, WWE.
> 
> I guess it helps that I have a class from 6-8:50 on Mondays anyway


That's what I do. Read recaps of Raw, ignore Smackdown/other shows altogether, and try to catch PPVs. Makes it much more tolerable when you care that much less.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Someone finish watching Vengeance 2007 for me please. I just don't seem to have the energy to keep on watching with Edge/Batista, some divas shite and a random as fuck 5 way match.

New blog stuff in sig, go look and shit.


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

This is a one match PPV now after Raw (and the free Reigns/Rollins).

Lesnar/cena 3 has to be a five star match because no other match on the card has the potential to be a show stealer. 
Sheamus/Cesaro could be good but there is no story and no passion.
Ziggler/Miz will be a boring rematch
Orton/Y2J has no build up and quite frankly i think it's gonna be bad.

Reigns/rollins won't happen in my modest opinion. I think we will see a returning Ambrose and have something like a tag (Rollins/kane vs Ambrose/rollins) or a Brawl involving the three former members of the shield.

Very bad booking recently i think, but more wrestling the last 2 weeks. D. Bryan is highly missed.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Not gonna watch the show, but my interest lies entirely on Ziggler/Miz and Rusev/Henry. Maybe the tag match too, but I still can't make sense of this heel turn. It should be a good PPV in terms of Cal scale numbers, but with what transpired between Reigns and Rollins last night, there's just no excitement.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I almost want Cena to win at Sunday so I can officially stop giving a fuck about the product altogether. Still intend on getting the Network in November all the way through Wrestlemania but unless there's a huge improvement, I will not renew after that. God forbid Roman "reigns" after Wrestlemania because I am already sick of his superman booking currently. If he beats Brock clean in a shitty match, that will be it for me.



#ROOT said:


> Someone finish watching Vengeance 2007 for me please. I just don't seem to have the energy to keep on watching with Edge/Batista, some divas shite and a random as fuck 5 way match.
> 
> New blog stuff in sig, go look and shit.


Edge vs Batista is actually good. I know how you feel, though. When watching 2007, I had no energy to watch any of the shows after May. Watched about 5 matches in total from all three PPVs in May & June. It was as lifeless and boring as the current product.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Lesnar/Cena and Sheamus/Cesaro are featured matches on an upcoming PPV and we are all jaded and apathetic despite this.

If WWE really is a universe unto itself, Vince has become the perfect Nietzsche. The existential nihilism he has created within his product is frightening.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I asked it a few weeks ago but I'll ask it again. The current state of the product has to be on 2009 level, maybe lower, right? I mean, at least in 2009, Smackdown was good and the brand split was still active, whereas today, the shitty quality of the program spreads all over the three main shows.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Yeah, I don't look at 2009 in all that bad of a light because of SD/ECW being so good. Raw was awful but I stopped watching Raw when it got bad.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'd much rather take 2009 over this pile of shit that we've got right now. There was at least some independence for the brands and more star power. Today the only interesting guy on the roster they haven't ruined is usually absent.

I think this might even be worse than the second half of 2012 and everyone knows how much I shit on that _awful_ year. It's a shame how far things have fallen because starting the year, I had so much hope for it. They managed to recover from the Royal Rumble disaster but after a great Wrestlemania, didn't take them long to turn it to shit.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So, Christian finally returns at NOC... pre-show... to do a Peep Show segment with Jericho...

At least he might wrestle on Raw next week, right?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Bryan being injured
Wyatt getting buried
Reigns = Cena 2.0
Jericho being washed up
Orton doing nothing of note
Cena being Cena
Cesaro's WM push being halted for whatever reason
Nobody else to care about (other than Rollins/Ambrose which they killed last night)

I literally only watch for Lesnar now that Rollins/Ambrose means nothing, so it makes it easier to tolerate how shitty things are as a casual fan.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Besides segments involving Dean Ambrose I haven't watched RAW/SD/ME since the week before MITB. Battleground sucked and I only watched Ambrose/Rollins & Cena/Lesnar from Summerslam. Only gonna watch NoC for Rusev/Henry since i expect some BS from Rollins/Reigns after last night.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> I'd much rather take 2009 over this pile of shit that we've got right now. There was at least some independence for the brands and more star power. Today the only interesting guy on the roster they haven't ruined is usually absent.
> 
> I think this might even be worse than the second half of 2012 and everyone knows how much I shit on that _awful_ year. It's a shame how far things have fallen because starting the year, I had so much hope for it. They managed to recover from the Royal Rumble disaster but after a great Wrestlemania, didn't take them long to turn it to shit.


I didn't even watch in 2009 which is why I asked the question, but after hearing how good Smackdown was, give me two hours of Smackdown 2009 on Monday nights instead of this shit.

I've come to expect the product to dip post-Summerslam, but this is a steep decline that can't even be described properly. It's baffling how far the product has fallen at this point.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, there goes my interest for NOC.

Lesnar/Cena brawl was cool. 6-Man Tag was cool. Swagger BOating Bo was kinda cool. Everything else? FUCK THIS GARBAGE. Henry/Rusev ME'ing Raw sounded :mark:... until the segment actually happened. Couldn't have given less of a shit about more than half of the show. Reigns beating Rollins clean. REIGNS BEATING ROLLINS CLEAN. THEY JUST FUCKING MURDERED THE HOTTEST FEUD IN YEARS. UWE BOLL CAN MAKE BETTER MOVIES THAN THESE GUYS CAN HAVE A GOOD PRODUCT ATM.

Tbf, it's not 100% fault of the moronic Creative, though: this show REEKS of old, out of touch Vince McMahon booking so fucking much and I can't wait to bite the first second Triple H steps in.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I don't usually say this but last night's RAW was one of the worst episodes of all time. There's usually something I enjoy but it was hard finding something. I liked the 6 man tag and of course Brock/Cena. As for the rest of the show, fuck it. Jericho/Kane was boring, Wyatt vs Show was actually a decent match but I could have cared less. Btw, does Wyatt even have an opponent this Sunday?

And I don't even think I need to bring up what closed the show. Just horrible. Absolutely nothing happened. Didn't feel like a go home show at all.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

WWE has managed to fucked up everything they worked on earlier this year. Cesaro's push? Dead. Wyatt? Dead. AJ and Paige? Oh you mean Nikki and Brie? The Shield? Forgettable. 

Let's start with Cesaro. The guy gets one of the biggest pops of the night at Wrestlemania by winning the Andre Memorial Battle Royal which was actually a pretty fun match. Some months later, Rusev debuts and they decide to do the cliched USA vs Foreign Country storyline. In order to do so, they first had to remove Swagger from the eternal pits of burial hell. Prior to his feud with Rusev, Swagger and Cesaro feuded where Cesaro mostly got the upper hand. But in order to start this dumb feud, Swagger now had to look strong. For some reason, the only way WWE saw to do this, was to halt Cesaro's push and have him lose to Swagger every week fpalm

Now we move on to Wyatt. Feuded with Cena earlier this year. They had a really good match at Mania and even though Bray lost, he still got over. Then, Extreme Rules came. Rowan and Harper looked stupid in everything and by extension so too did Bray. Luckily, Chris Jericho came back and sort of brought him back up. Only for Cena to return one week after being german-suplexed 16 times and taking out the entire Wyatt family. Now he's been reduced to 30 second promos while Nikki and Brie get 15 minutes to talk about their daddy issues fpalm

Speaking of the Bellas, what the fucking fuck? Can anyone explain how Paige and AJ became intertwined in their bullshit? What the actual fuck is going on? Fuck this shit. 

Lastly, you have The Shield. One of the most dominant factions of all time. I was against their split this year, but for a while they seemed to make it work. They were doing a great job of keeping all 3 men over. Then Reigns had to receive a super-man push. Look, let's be honest. 99% of us, were once huge Reigns fans. So what happened? Well, the same fucking mistake they made with Cena 8 years ago happened. That's what happened. We all knew they were gonna make Reigns the #1 guy in the group. If anyone else thought otherwise, please say you've been watching wrestling for only a year. Cause you'd have to be a fool if you couldn't see Reigns as the guy they were preparing for success. I had no problems with it whatsoever. Of course, I was assuming it would have been a 2-3 year process. Not 2-3 weeks.


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

It's very sad right now. the 4 upcoming months are going to be boring as ever...
I really hope all the great talents from NXT STAY in NXT because that's the only show watchable right now (from a storytelling point of view)


Just watched Razor Ramon vs Bret Hart KOTR 93 in round 1. 
Sweet match, i fucking love Bret hart this guy makes no mistakes. 
going to continue the show but i'm excited!!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

the frenchise said:


> It's very sad right now. the 4 upcoming months are going to be boring as ever...
> I really hope all the great talents from NXT STAY in NXT because that's the only show watchable right now (from a storytelling point of view)
> 
> 
> ...


Bret Hart = 1993 KOTR. Just wait until you get to Bret/Hennig.

Oh my fucking days. :mark:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Growing restless with PWG not giving a date on the BOLA DVDs being released yet. I need some good current wrestling to watch. :side:


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

NXT with all the talent they have (and the newcomers) is going to be miles better than the main product. It's gonna be night and day. Probably like the difference between RAW and SD in 2009. :side:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

PGSucks said:


> NXT with all the talent they have (and the newcomers) is going to be miles better than the main product. It's gonna be night and day. Probably like the difference between RAW and SD in 2009. :side:


Definitely. I legitimately want those guys to stay down there where they can thrive. God knows what will happen if they get called up.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Speaking of NXT... what ever came about of some NXT guys being at Raw or whatever? Dark match? Or are they gonna wait and use them for Superstars/Main Event/Smackdown instead?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

#ROOT said:


> Speaking of NXT... what ever came about of some NXT guys being at Raw or whatever? Dark match? Or are they gonna wait and use them for Superstars/Main Event/Smackdown instead?


Think they might be doing it more sparingly. I thought I read somewhere that it's not going to be a weekly thing but more of a random showcase occasionally. However I can't find where I read that so I may be completely wrong. :sadpanda


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

The Fab Four said:


> Bret Hart = 1993 KOTR. Just wait until you get to Bret/Hennig.
> 
> Oh my fucking days. :mark:


Indeed. Oh my goodness. Fantastic match, and i love the finish. 
I also love the fact that Hogan/Yokozuna is following that and Hogan is squashed like a bug.

Just watched Rollins vs Big E from this week's Main event. Great stuff. Rollins is the D Bryan from end 2011/2012: Higher midcard ,never has a bad match,workhorse!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wonder if Cal has made it through Vengeance by now 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I do believe I can give you an answer to that question.

No.

Haven't even had the DVD in my disc drive for about 2 days :lmao.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Rollins vs Big E from Main Event was good. Also liked Rollins vs Reigns from Raw although the match and especially the clean ending should never have happened one week before NOC but whatever.

He's adapted his ring work to fit his "smart, opportunistic" heel character and it's good to see.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Bret/Backlund Superstars match is rather grand imo. The turn at the end made it all the better, no matter what people say about Bob's return, that heel turn was masterful.

I'll try and upload the match at some point if anyone wants it.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Match is already on Dailymotion, so that may save you some time.

Backlund never lost a step. Fab match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cool, thanks.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Finally got back on track with my 2008 project.

Judgment Day 2008

John Cena vs JBL - *1/2 (.5)
Miz/Morrison vs Punk/Kane - **3/4 (1)
HBK vs Jericho - **** (5)
Mickie vs Beth vs Melina - *** (2)
Undertaker vs Edge - ***1/2 (3)
Jeff Hardy vs MVP - *1/2 (.5)
Triple H vs Randy Orton - **3/4 (1)

Total: 13

- Couldn't get into JBL/Cena or Hardy/MVP at all. Thought both really dragged on. 

- Woman's match was actually pretty good. Had some cool spots in it.

- HBK/Jericho was really good. Start of a fantastic feud.

- Main event didn't do much for me. It wasn't bad but it really wasn't good either.

Wrestlemania - 31.5
No Way Out - 20
Judgment Day - 13
Royal Rumble - 8
Backlash - 7


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao I genuinely didn't even know HHH and Orton had yet ANOTHER PPV match at JD in 08 :lmao. In a cage too! I actually had to wiki the PPV because I could have sworn it was a 4 way, but I'm guessing that happened at backlash?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Yes, Backlash was the 4 way, then they did their Cage match and Last Man Standing (where Orton broke his collarbone).


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Anyone else not like the Bret/Backlund SvS match? I thought it was pretty boring outside of Owen acting like a clown.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

#ROOT said:


> :lmao I genuinely didn't even know HHH and Orton had yet ANOTHER PPV match at JD in 08 :lmao. In a cage too! I actually had to wiki the PPV because I could have sworn it was a 4 way, but I'm guessing that happened at backlash?


It's amazing, it's the main event of a PPV but it felt like it was hyped like a Raw main event.

I'm kind of looking forward to the LMS match. I recall it being solid before Orton got hurt.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

This Raw show after Over the Edge 1998 just screams "big time". It's in Chicago and as we've got to know this city, the atmosphere is electric and the crowd is on fire. Taker makes some demands for Vince, then there's a six-man elimination tag with Nation and DX then the main event with Kane and Undertaker to set up the #1 contender for KOTR. Also fun to hear Vince and Austin bickering on commentary. Then Foley shows up as Mankind in the end to set up the HIAC match with Taker for later. Just major stuff all around and with all this star power, it's some good shit.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

DEAD THREAD~!

Still not got around to finishing off Vengeance . I have however watched a 3 hour film, a 2 hour film, a 1.5 hour film, 2 documentaries at around 3.5 hours in total, and a bunch of random web videos for around 2 hours... all while NOT watching Vengeance . Oh and TNA this week because it was one of their TV PPV specials and I figured I'd make a habit of rambling on them every month (posted on my BLOG~! or you can see it in the discussion thread for the show in the TNA section).

And finally, I also watched some bits of 2 Raw shows. Took out that Raw 20th Anniversary set thingy with the 20 Raw episodes, and threw in the 6th disc with the Go Home Raw for WM 17 aka VINCE BUYS WCW THEN SHANE BUYS WCW episode . Skipped through most of it, just watched the odd match and segment I was really interested in. Main reason I put that disc in though was because it had the RAW ROULETTE show from 2003, and I wanted to watch BOOKER VS HENRY in a street fight. After watching their Armageddon 2003 match ages ago, I wanted to check this match out too to see if it was any good. And it was. Not as good as the PPV match, mainly because it was kinda short, but what we got was some real goodness. Booker is in the ring while Henry is backstage spinning the wheel, so when he finds out it's a street fight and Henry is coming with weapons, he runs up the ramp and hides so he can jump Henry from behind :lmao. In the ring, Booker starts hitting Henry with weapons, but fucking HENRY is awesome and takes them all and destroys them. Stop sign? Fuck that, I'll bend it in half. Frying pan? Screw you, amma bend that too :mark:. Nothing Booker could do would put Henry away, and Henry just kept blowing off all of Booker's attacks and picks up the win :mark:. Super fun match, wish it had more time though, but oh well!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cal likes AC/DC? :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well that was... random .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Well, it shows some fucker reads your blog(s).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well that is awesome... but I am still confused as to which part you read or whatever to get that info . Gonna guess my DVD collection list?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yup. 

Listing for the new Macho Man set

Documentary





Driven to Perfection
Bred to Achieve
Baseball Days
Transition into Wrestling
Developing The Macho Man
Earning a Reputation
WrestleMania III
WWE Champion
Mega Powers
Randy & Liz
Spokesperson
WCW
Hardships
Giving Back
True Love
May 20, 2011
Cream of the Crop

DISC 2

Intercontinental Championship Match
“Macho Man” Randy Savage vs. Ricky “The Dragon” Steamboat
Superstars • November 22, 1986

Lumberjack Match for the Intercontinental Championship

“Macho Man” Randy Savage vs. Bruno Sammartino
Boston Garden • February 7, 1987



Intercontinental Championship Match
“Macho Man” Randy Savage vs. Ricky “The Dragon” Steamboat
Maple Leaf Gardens • February 15, 1987



“Macho Man” Randy Savage vs. “The King” Harley Race
Philadelphia, PA • September 18, 1987



Six-Man Tag Team Steel Cage Match
“Macho Man” Randy Savage & Strike Force vs. Honky Tonk Man & The Hart Foundation
Boston Garden • March 5, 1988



WWE Championship Match
“Macho Man” Randy Savage vs. “Million Dollar Man” Ted DiBiase
Boston Garden • July 9, 1988



Harlem Street Fight for the WWE Championship
“Macho Man” Randy Savage vs. Bad News Brown
Hamilton, Ontario • January 16, 1989



WWE Championship Match
Hulk Hogan vs. “Macho Man” Randy Savage
Madison Square Garden • April 24, 1989

DISC 3

“Macho Man” Randy Savage vs. “Rowdy” Roddy Piper

Miami, FL • January 22, 1990



WWE Championship Match
“Macho Man” Randy Savage vs. Shawn Michaels
Munich, Germany • April 14, 1992



WWE Championship Match
“Macho Man” Randy Savage vs. The Ultimate Warrior
SummerSlam • August 31, 1992



WWE Championship Match
“Macho Man” Randy Savage vs. Ric Flair
Prime Time Wrestling • September 14, 1992



WCW Television Championship Match
“Macho Man” Randy Savage vs. Arn Anderson
WCW Saturday Night • January 28, 1995



Steel Cage Match for the WCW Championship
“Macho Man” Randy Savage vs. Ric Flair
WCW Superbrawl VI • February 11, 1996



Las Vegas Sudden Death Match
“Macho Man” Randy Savage vs. Diamond Dallas Page
WCW Halloween Havoc • October 26, 1997



BLU-RAY EXCLUSIVES

Lumberjack Match for the WWE Championship
Hulk Hogan vs. “Macho Man” Randy Savage
Madison Square Garden • February 17, 1986



Winner is the King of WWE
“Macho Man” Randy Savage vs. “Hacksaw” Jim Duggan
Madison Square Garden • October 28, 1989



“Macho Man” Randy Savage & Sting vs. The Blue Bloods (Lord Steven Regal & Earl Robert Eaton)
WCW Saturday Night • September 9, 1995



“Macho Man” Randy Savage vs. Booker T
WCW Nitro • December 15, 1997



Blu-Ray Exclusive Stories



Ambidextrous?
Card Shark
Fearing the Savage
Getting into the WWE
Snake Fixed?
A Safety Net
Hundred Dollar Bill Guy
Jerusalem
Highly Competitive
No Days Off
Cowboy Hats
Part of the Team
Shifting Gears
Very Generous
Thanksgiving Call
Walking Away
Michael Schmidt
Macho Tip


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

One Night Stand 2008

Jeff Hardy vs Umaga - ***1/2 (3)
CM Punk vs Tommy Dreamer vs John Morrison vs Big Show vs Chavo Guerrero - ***1/2 (3)
John Cena vs JBL - DUD (0)
Beth Phoenix vs Melina - ***1/4 (2)
Batista vs Shawn Michaels - **3/4 (1)
Triple H vs Randy Orton - ***1/4 (2)
Edge vs Undertaker - ***1/2 (3)

Total: 14

- Finally a show I remember really liking. :mark:

- The first two matches are pure fun. I've probably watched the kendo stick match a good 50 times in my life and it never gets old. And other than the obvious set up Hardy spot, Umaga/Jeff is really fun. ***1/2 might seem high but I really like these two.

- Cena/JBL, couldn't get into this one at all. Just bored the hell out of me.

- Woman's match was really good. Made good use of the I Quit gimmick and Melina looked like she died like 4 times.

- I remember really liking HBK/Batista's stretcher match a long time ago. Didn't get the same feeling here. For some reason the whole feud just seemed kinda forced. I think 2010 heel Batista vs face HBK could have been fantastic though.

- Orton/Triple H is a pretty good match going into the part where Orton gets hurt. Nasty looking injury. Funny how Trips/Orton had great chemistry in their 3 LMS matches but the rest of their matches didn't really go anywhere.

- Edge/Taker. Despite the obvious set up for spots, I still think this match is really fun. 
I can completely see why people despise this match, but I still have a good time watching. The bumps Hawkins/Ryder take are crazy. Plus BAM NEELY.

- Really shocked that this is only 1 point higher than my JD rating. Because I enjoyed this show 1000 times more.

Wrestlemania - 31.5
No Way Out - 20
One Night Stand - 14
Judgment Day - 13
Royal Rumble - 8
Backlash - 7


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Boooo at your rating for the TLC match. Yey at your rating for the KENDO STICK MATCH.

And that Savage set looks pretty nice. Documentary, yey. Matches for the most part seem interesting too. Lots of opponents I like and mostly enjoy other matches between them so that's good. I'll add it to the list of shit I want on Bluray from Fremantle but refuse to pay their fucking prices because FUCK YOU FREMANTLE YOU OVERPRICED CUNTS.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Big Show literally killing people after he takes the steel steps spot. :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, hopefully doc will be good. Savage/Sting vs Blue Bloods sounds very interesting.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brye said:


> Big Show literally killing people after he takes the steel steps spot. :mark:


Yeah that's awesome :mark:. And didn't Chabo get beaten up by a sports dude in the crowd too? :mark:

Show proper fucked himself up on that steel steps spot too. That GASH was brutal. All hard way too.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So Big Show is a murderer? : And he actually gets rewarded for it by getting a useless main event push every year and burying the midcard! :shocked:

Second Raw of June 1998 features Vince in a good mood and instantly I knew regardless of the kayfabe intentions, they have beat WCW's ratings the previous week. Turns out I was right. Undertaker also shows up in casual clothing chokeslamming everybody left and right at the end of matches.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

#ROOT said:


> Yeah that's awesome :mark:. And didn't Chabo get beaten up by a sports dude in the crowd too? :mark:
> 
> Show proper fucked himself up on that steel steps spot too. That GASH was brutal. All hard way too.


:lmao Yeah, Shawne Merriman. He actually was signed by WWE for a bit earlier this year.

Yeah holy fuck, that came close to his eye too.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Finally watching Batista vs Jericho @ Cyber Sunday.

I don't think it's well-liked on here, but I hope for the best. 10 matches (including this one) left in 2008.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

wow so much fuckery


Their Steel Cage match, on the other hand, was great. They pulled off the (relatively) "small" guy vs big guy shtick pretty well and their were some creative spots used.


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

I need to check out that kendo stick match again. Big Show towards the end of the match is indeed all kinds of :mark:. Shawn Merriman's involvement was cool too. That match was just a lot of fun.

Speaking of Big Show, he's always a beast in multi-man matches. Anybody else remember the MITB match he was in with that super ladder? I believe it was 2010.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Fab Four said:


> Yeah, hopefully doc will be good. Savage/Sting vs Blue Bloods sounds very interesting.


I'm SO pumped for this Savage doc, I'll be getting it the day it's released FOR SURE. Let's all cross our fingers a HoF induction happens this year as well, it's just gotten preposterous the longer it goes on without Randy being put in. I'm still a bit heartbroken it didn't happen when he was alive, can you imagine the FEELS of a Macho Man acceptance speech? I get goosebumps just thinking about it.



DoubtGin said:


> wow so much fuckery
> 
> 
> Their Steel Cage match, on the other hand, was great. They pulled off the (relatively) "small" guy vs big guy shtick pretty well and their were some creative spots used.


That Jericho/Batista cage match is what caused Batista to leave the WWE apparently. He got fined $100,000 for blading and he said it just killed him that he got fined such an absurd amount of money for doing what he knew to be the right thing. He gave his 9 month notice a few months later.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> So Big Show is a murderer? : And he actually gets rewarded for it by getting a useless main event push every year and burying the midcard! :shocked:
> 
> Second Raw of June 1998 features Vince in a good mood and instantly I knew regardless of the kayfabe intentions, they have beat WCW's ratings the previous week. Turns out I was right. Undertaker also shows up in casual clothing chokeslamming everybody left and right at the end of matches.


Precursor to Biker Taker there. I remember that.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

MCAT vs. funnyfaces1: *SQUASH*

Imagine if the MCAT was Brock Lesnar and I was Damien Sandow. Oh dear I think I died twice.

Now somebody. Please cheer me up with feel good moments in wrestling. Anyone! Especially you, cjack.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> MCAT vs. funnyfaces1: *SQUASH*
> 
> Imagine if the MCAT was Brock Lesnar and I was Damien Sandow. Oh dear I think I died twice.
> 
> Now somebody. Please cheer me up with feel good moments in wrestling. Anyone! Especially you, cjack.


:sad:

Can't beat this though.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> MCAT vs. funnyfaces1: *SQUASH*
> 
> Imagine if the MCAT was Brock Lesnar and I was Damien Sandow. Oh dear I think I died twice.
> 
> Now somebody. Please cheer me up with feel good moments in wrestling. Anyone! Especially you, cjack.


Brye nailed that, that's one of the best for sure. Well, all the main feel good moments (Foley, Eddie, Bryan, Benoit, Punk, etc winning the title) are obvious so I'm guessing you aren't asking for one of those. A less obvious one is the Ron Simmons vs Big Van Vader match where Simmons became the first African American to win the title, that match is actually pretty darn good if I recall correctly.

If you just want to sit back and laugh and enjoy how absurd wrestling is, look no further than a Vinny Mac match. Pick any of the classics that crazy bastard had over the years, vs Hogan, vs Michaels, vs Shane, vs Stephanie, vs Zach Gowen, etc.

Or you can watch the Flair vs Eddie 5/29/96 Nitro match I was pimping last week, that's a really fun match.

Hmm, I feel like I'm failing you as I can't seem to pull a fun, lesser known gem out of my ass at the moment. Uhhhh are you one of those weirdos that hates Angle vs Shane KotR 2001? That's always a really, really fun watch. OR the Cena vs Eddie Latino Heat Parking Lot Brawl from Smackdown 2003. That always puts a smile on my face, as does the Regal/Jericho Duchess of Queensbury Rules match from Backlash 2001.

There is always the ridiculous skits with Dr. Shelby that Bryan did during his "weak link" phase last year, those are a riot. Or any Kurt Angle promo during his feud with Cena or Michaels ("I'm just a sexy Kurt, I'll make you're ankle hurt" :lmao) or his positively histerical skits with Austin from 2001 when they were competing for Vince's affection.

Finally, if all that is shit you aren't interested in, watch the tried and true Stooges vs Mean Street Posse match from Raw. Briscoe and Patrerson potatoeing the shit out of those scrubs never fails to crack me up.

There, I spent a whopping 10 minutes thinking of funny shit for you. None of it is original or hidden so I apologize, but atleast I tried right? Sorry about the MCATs brother.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Now somebody. Please cheer me up with feel good moments in wrestling. Anyone! Especially you, cjack.


If this in particular doesn't strike you funny if by nothing else the sheer contrast of this guy ten years later, reevaluate your sense of humor:






I don't know of much the past decade (seems to be your wheelhouse) that was comedic gold and obscure since most of what has struck me as funny is well known, but even though while subjective I dont think comedy has ever been TNA's strongsuit, Paparazzi Productions had some gold


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The PCS in TNA is one of the funniest things ever. I loved those segments.






Edit: just watched through the whole series again. Nash is amazing in these. :lmao


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just watched the Top 10 High Flyers Countdown on the Network....CM Punk ending the Eddie segment by saying "Eddie Guerrero is the best wrestler ever. He was better than Flair, he was better than Steve Austin, he was better than me, Eddie was better than everyone" made me :mark: :mark: big time.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

At least Punk gets it.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Just watched the Top 10 High Flyers Countdown on the Network....CM Punk ending the Eddie segment by saying "Eddie Guerrero is the best wrestler ever. He was better than Flair, he was better than Steve Austin, he was better than me, Eddie was better than everyone" made me :mark: :mark: big time.


:mark::mark::mark:

Gotta watch this asap.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The countdown shows are pretty awesome, imo. I've been letting the Network's original programming build up so I can binge watch but I've seen about half of the Countdowns and I love them.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That Jericho/Batista cage match is what caused Batista to leave the WWE apparently. He got fined $100,000 for blading and he said it just killed him that he got fined such an absurd amount of money for doing what he knew to be the right thing. He gave his 9 month notice a few months later.


Oh, I've read about the fining story, but I didn't know it was this match. Thanks.

Sucks big time, though.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Grand interview that WWE.com did with the "new New Generation"











Devitt and Steen are seemingly keeping their names (for now).


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:side: KENTA's debut match was not good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Who was his opponent?


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

:banderas Can't wait before this whole thread starts hating on KENTER, it's inevitable. Hopefully it doesn't take long before people realize just how mediocre he is.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Justin Gabriel. Why aren't you watching Vengeance?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I ain't watching Vengeance because I'm busy with other stuff. Stuff that isn't dull sounding .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I must be the only one in here that is even a small fan of Kenta lol. 

Granted I've only seen the most praised matches though.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

We all like early KENTA during the peak of NOAH. Dude was fun to watch. But something happened five years ago that caused all the NOAH juniors to wrestle like idiots.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, I've only seen his work up until around 2007/08 tbh. Think it was the Takayama match from 2010 I've seen too. 

I've got that Kenta:G2Sleep set ROH put out and it's a favorite of mine.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I liked KNTR when he knew his place.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Chismo said:


> :banderas Can't wait before this whole thread starts hating on KENTER, it's inevitable. Hopefully it doesn't take long before people realize just how mediocre he is.


Inevitable I think :lol

None of the new signings excite me that much tbh besides Steen maybe. I mean I do want to see them in action but like I'd rather see Crowe called up first. Personally, I find Zayn superior to all of them and I just don't think Neville/Devitt/Steen/Kenta have a ceiling as high as The Shield guys (not counting Reigns coz he obviously will be a big deal) :shrug


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Devitt is a strange one. He's clearly very talented and had some great matches throughout the career, but he had some total busts as well where he wrestled on auto-pilot. The Bullet Club angle was awesome tho, and some of the match-ups were swell and enhanced by the angle:




It's a matter of motivation, I guess, because often you could see him just going through the moveset instead of trying to come up with something organic. So, it's safe to say Devitt is the cruiserweight version of Jawn Seenah.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> MCAT vs. funnyfaces1: *SQUASH*
> 
> Imagine if the MCAT was Brock Lesnar and I was Damien Sandow. Oh dear I think I died twice.
> 
> *Now somebody. Please cheer me up with feel good moments in wrestling. Anyone! Especially you, cjack.*


Alberto Del Rio cashing in on Punk :troll

In all seriousness, if you just want something to put a smile in your face, just see some of the all-time greatest win their first World Titles. Or, as mentioned, Savage and Elizabeth's reunion (the match itself is also fucking GOAT). Or - if it even counts as a feel-good moment - the Smackdown 9/11 tribute.

Match wise, you have multiple picks, but I give you to watch Kota Ibushi vs. YOSHIHIKO. It's everything a feel-good moment should be - funny, thrilling, smile-inducing, memorable and just a crapton of fun. Legit classic right there, it's just not ***** for me because, well, I don't even know.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Because Ibushi had to be carried by a sex doll?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, maybe that's the reason. Then again, who doesn't YOSHIHIKO carry? Even Bryan would struggle to keep up w/him.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Yoshihiko had a tag match with Ibushi few days ago and transformed into *Ibushihiko *for the occasion.

Funny thing is, I can find you at least 7 guys from DDT that are better than Ibushi.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That list better start with Shigehiro Irie.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Irie. K. Ishii. Akito. Omega. KUDO. HARASHIMA. Takeshita. Endo. Takanashi. Sakaguchi.

Uh, that's not seven.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Edit: Ooops, wrong thread. Thought I was in the WWE section DVD Thread :side:.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

#ROOT said:


> Edit: Ooops, wrong thread. Thought I was in the WWE section DVD Thread :side:.


i heard that brad heart guy is good, any recs?

wrestlemaniaslam 89 **** 1/2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

lol wwe, those guy's cant wrestle

I've heard of him to FLUX, didnt he have that good match with that Ston Cole guy ?


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

BORK LASER vs. ZACH GOWEN ******


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I watched the AE Raw where Foley won the title last night, and let's just say I can see why some people call the AE "trash TV" nowadays. I started understanding it more around 2000, but, yeah... I didn't really enjoy that Raw. :lmao

Pros: everyone has an angle, the hot crowd, the pacing of the show is way better

Cons: 2-4 minute matches? No thank you. The midcard is really weak and some of the storylines are just trash. 

I'd take the booking philosophy (everyone has an angle or at least a character) of the Attitude Era, mesh it with the talent of the Ruthless Aggression era or even today's era (there's so much talent being wasted away today), and I'd be happy. And, keep the wrestling of today's era or the SD RA era too. I understand you can't give too much away on free TV, but a 10-15 minute match on TV never hurt anyone.

Hell, The Shield was having 20+ minute matches on Raw last year (I'm still in the middle of watching that series.)


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

RatedR10 said:


> I watched the AE Raw where Foley won the title last night, and let's just say I can see why some people call the AE "trash TV" nowadays. I started understanding it more around 2000, but, yeah... I didn't really enjoy that Raw. :lmao
> 
> Pros: everyone has an angle, the hot crowd, the pacing of the show is way better
> 
> ...


If a match is so short you could blink and miss the finish, there's no reason that length of matches should take place.
I definitely agree with the combo of yesterday's booking with today's talent pool. I once watched a string of AE 98 ppvs and man were they bad, IMO 2000 was the best year of AE as we got the best of everything.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Attitude Era and Ruthless Aggression are the best of both worlds. Mixing them together with the weaknesses thrown away would've given us the best shows ever.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Other than some of the talent, if I had to "fuse era's" to create my perfect wrestling product, there's NOTHING I'd take from the attitude era. Sucky television and sucky wrestling when looking back on it years later. Nostaliga is a hell of a thing. I'd basically just mix 1992 WCW style booking, WWE 2003 talent and current day NXT product presentation. To hell with the attitude era

Edit: Whoever it was that asked to be cheered up w/ wrestling (I think it was FunnyFaces), then I've just watched two videos that I forgot ever existed and NEED to be watched by whoever wants to have a smile on their face. 



Spoiler: SMILE












God bless that bald cripple.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'd still like to watch back 2000/2001 again at some point, esp 2001 tbh. 

But Smackdown 2003 is more of a treat IMHO. Raw 2004 too mostly.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Flux said:


> Other than some of the talent, if I had to "fuse era's" to create my perfect wrestling product, there's NOTHING I'd take from the attitude era. Sucky television and sucky wrestling when looking back on it years later. Nostaliga is a hell of a thing. I'd basically just mix 1992 WCW style booking, WWE 2003 talent and current day NXT product presentation. To hell with the attitude era
> 
> Edit: Whoever it was that asked to be cheered up w/ wrestling (I think it was FunnyFaces), then I've just watched two videos that I forgot ever existed and NEED to be watched by whoever wants to have a smile on their face.
> 
> ...


I'm with you, don't think I'd take any part of the AE. I'd want the current WWE talent pool with the writing of Smackdown in the RA era.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Flux said:


> Other than some of the talent, if I had to "fuse era's" to create my perfect wrestling product, there's NOTHING I'd take from the attitude era. Sucky television and sucky wrestling when looking back on it years later. Nostaliga is a hell of a thing. I'd basically just mix 1992 WCW style booking, WWE 2003 talent and current day NXT product presentation. To hell with the attitude era
> 
> ]


I agree with you to an extent, but if I could take one thing from the AE, it would be the atmosphere. Raw back in 1998 felt like a happening, the fans were CRAZY, the shots of the crowd would show a sea of neon signage with 20,000 people losing their collective shit. So if anything, I'd take the presentation/atmosphere of the AE. That was back before everything got over produced and shiny, there was still some grittiness in the product.

I do agree that from a booking standpoint AND from a wrestling style stand point, WCW in 1992 under Bill Watts was just about perfect. Watts was on JR's podcast this week and I have to say, that man shares just about the exact same beliefs in how wrestling should be presented as I do. Don't insult the fans intelligence, present a product that for all intents and purposes appears to be legitimate to allow suspension of disbelief, heels need to be no good bastards who can't gain and advantage without breaking rules, there needs to be strict enforcement of rules so heels have a way to get heat, baby faces more than anything need to be able to SELL, really sell, and appear vulnerable so fans can get behind them, and the wrestling in the ring needs to be hard nosed and physical with an emphasis on realism. These are the fundamentals of wrestling IMO but WWE is not currently following ANY of those rules. They are breaking every single one of them, and the product is suffering accordingly.



The Fab Four said:


> I'd still like to watch back 2000/2001 again at some point, esp 2001 tbh.
> 
> But Smackdown 2003 is more of a treat IMHO. Raw 2004 too mostly.


Essentially, this. WWE has proven they are capable of running an excellent show. Smackdown in 2003 under head writer Paul Heyman is the best product WWE has ever put on television, period. No Mercy 2003 and Vengeance 2003 are essentially perfect PPV's. And Heyman accomplished this using only HALF of the WWE roster. Smackdown in 2003 under Heyman actually beat Raw in the ratings more often than not. That's why Raw got pretty damn good in 2004, Vince was tired of his flag ship show getting beaten by the ugly step child so he devoted all his focus and energy in 2004 on making Raw better.

That's why I get more annoyed than anything with what WWE currently puts on television. If they had never put anything good out on TV, it wouldn't be a problem. But no, Smackdown in 2003 could have been done under a PG rating and it would still be an amazing year. Edginess and a TV-14 rating aren't required to make a good wrestling show. What is required is good storylines with EXCELLENT matches to back them up in the ring. Smackdown in 2003 delivered, week in and week out. They created new stars while also catering to the known, tried and true stars. Why can't they just present a product like that? What is stopping them?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I think the last thing I'd take from 1992 WCW is the booking, and that's my favourite year for a wrestling promotion. Does anyone here even remember how the Dangerous Alliance broke up? I don't. I just remember Zbyszko getting kicked out and then I remember nothing. They had some good angles like Barry Windham's broken arm revenge and Steamboat striking Madusa, but a world champion was literally drawn out of a hat on TV. Some silly shit. If I were taking a booking aspect from anywhere I don't think it would be from any of WCW's last 11 years. Miiiight take that roster, though. Arn and Steamboat had arguably the two best years of any US wrestler in the entire decade in 1992. And there are more than half a dozen guys in that company with an awesome, awesome in ring year. For booking I'd probably take 82-85 CWA, but IDK if that would mean matches on TV would be shorter than normal. I guess not if I can make the rules and let it have the length of an episode of SmackDown. If I had to choose physical presentation I'd probably choose mid-90s WWF, or just stick with 1992 WCW. Everything is nice and blue and kind of shiny but there aren't eighty obnoxious techy graphics flying everywhere and fifty pyrotechnics and moving spotlights and bells and whistles bullshit when somebody just walks to the ring. All of that nonsense just makes the wrestlers look small, as well.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I, personally, preferred the SD RA era (2002-2003) more than anything else I've watched when it comes to WWE and its eras.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

1992 WCW was a great year, but it was a great year because of the sheer volume of in-ring quality. Watts WCW had A LOT of flaws, and Watts himself was even more flawed as a human. Vader's long awaited championship reign was only for one month, and it ended in such exploitative fashion. The rest of the world title reigns (and mind you there were two of them at the time) were horrid. Just horrid. The "Watts Commandment" rules went too far with restricting what a wrestler can do in the ring in favor of trying to make things easier for heels, but when you have talent like Arn Anderson and Rick Rude on your roster, you do not need to cut down rules in order for these guys to be effective heels. Watts also did not like light heavyweight wrestling, which hurt what was on its way to become a popular division on the backs of Pillman and Liger. The nepotism involving his son was disgusting. I have no clue as to what he was trying to do with the tag division as his tenure went on, but it wasn't pretty. I understand the importance of keeping wrestling simple and going back to its roots of mat wrestling, dastardly heels, and babyfaces that sold well until they went to their comeback sequence, but Watts era WCW lacked the variety that was needed in the early 90s, and you can only do so many "work the arm" type matches and STF tags until it all just gets too homogeneous. I want variety in my wrestling, and I get that more from 1996/1997 WCW and from the WWE in years like 1992, 2000, 2003, 2005 (yes, I used that year), and even 2013.

Thanks guys for making me feel better after that horrible experience. Parking lot brawls rule. As does a regulated Kurt Angle.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I will be sick this day. Fuck yes!! :bow




The Fab Four said:


> Yup.
> 
> Listing for the new Macho Man set
> 
> ...


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Great job by the WWE to put together a set that I want to see and most of the matches I can't go and watch on the WWE Network.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Damn. I just keep becoming a bigger fan of Rusev. Put on a good match with Reigns on Smackdown.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Rusev has really proven me wrong considering I saw no appeal or longevity in the guy initially. Guy is already a premium seller especially of after effects, the short but impactful moveset works for him especially when he usually in his matches throws in a few little wrinkles to avoid a huge issue with Reigns, guy has a manager that legitimately has put in some of the best character work in the company more or less since she came in, Rusev can move pretty good for his size in the ring too and recently I've noticed Rusev implementing some ring psychology already. Sure, Rusev's stock will take a big hit when that invincibility shatters like everyone with the superior foreign athlete does, but I hope upper sees Rusev has the tools to survive and at least be a nice hand. Scary thing is I'm pretty sure he hasn't been in the business that long and he will only improve.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Admittedly, I expected him to be Kozlov 2.0, but when he finally started working and showing his stuff, I changed my tune instantly. Now he's one of my favourites. He's a fantastic seller and a great worker for a guy his size. He has a great valet (and a hot one) who can do the talking to cover up the weakness he has.

I really wish Cena wasn't next in line to feud with Rusev (if the sheets are right.) I'd much rather see Rusev vs. Sheamus for the US Title.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

How could i forget about RA Era Smackdown in my first post, just looking at the roster it was better then RAW. Funny thing is i was never a fan of Haas/Benjamin, maybe i'll check out WGTT/Mysterio,Kidman as i don't remember ever watching it.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/512976420247961600


----------



## Mike Smalling (Sep 30, 2005)

Rah said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/512976420247961600


Interesting. What do you think it's about?


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Sting is obviously the next generation.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

NXT stars debuting, I hope. A weekly showcase match of talent.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

WWE 2K ‏@WWEgames

FINALLY.. The world premiere of the #WWE2K15 gameplay trailer is coming, Monday morning (9/22) on @IGN. #FEELIT! 

or this


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Rah said:


> NXT stars debuting, I hope. A weekly showcase match of talent.



Meltzer:



> This is not something to get excited about or you will be disappointed.
> 
> It's a Dixie Carter level surprise.



Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The game then lol.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

This company is sheer bollocks, sometimes. fpalm


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well 2K have announced they will show some gameplay footage of the new game on Raw, so that's a possibility, and then of course NXT guys are said to be getting showcase matches on Raw every now and then, which was planned to start last week but they decided to wait until after NOC.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Oh for Eaton's sake. Now Reigns is out? My god what a depleted roster.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, I'd much rather have Reigns out then all the other guys (Bryan, Ambrose, Barrett) tbf. Plus, an incarcerated hernia will only require a few weeks off as far as I know.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Good job they already did Reign's PPV match on Raw then :side:.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Which (given the result) should've never, ever happened .


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Here's to hoping Ambrose returns and they do Ambrose/Rollins in some kind of crazy stipulation match or something. My current hype level for Night of Champions: :shrug

Reigns possibly being out is just icing on the cake here. The whole company might as well just take a couple months off to recoup. Luckily the Sunday Night Football game isn't interesting enough for me to watch instead.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The good thing about Reigns' injury is it buys more time for WWE to allow him to develop rather than trying to rush him into the Wrestlemania main event.

The product is lackluster, and WWE just lost another bigger name for at least a month. :lmao Thank god Ambrose is returning. Set up that big HIAC match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Here's to hoping Ambrose returns and they do Ambrose/Rollins in some kind of crazy stipulation match or something. My current hype level for Night of Champions: :shrug
> 
> Reigns possibly being out is just icing on the cake here. The whole company might as well just take a couple months off to recoup. *Luckily the Sunday Night Football game isn't interesting enough for me to watch instead.*


:cam


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

How long is Reigns out and when is Ambrose back?


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Ambrose will most likely be back at NoC or the following RAW.
Reigns is apparently injured for close to six weeks.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Well, Reigns/Rollins I got a *** rating from me. I enjoyed it. 

I wonder when we'll see part II. Most likely after Ambrose/Rollins again, and most likely at the end of the year. WWE usually packs the first show of the new year, right? That'd be a nice spot for the match. I don't believe WWE holds off until the Rumble for Reigns to return.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I'd guess that they gave us a clean win on Raw as the PPV match was intender to end with a beatdown. Kane lead by HHH help Rollins maul Reigns until Ambrose returns for the save.

HiaC is then Reigns/Hunter and Ambrose/Rollins. Reigns' injury really does throw a spanner in the works of making that return feeling as special as possible.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*King of the Ring 1998:*

Headbangers/Taka vs Kai En Tai - ★★
Ken Shamrock vs Jeff Jarrett - ★¼
The Rock vs Dan Severn - ★
Too Much vs Al Snow/Head - N/A (skipped to finish and admit it was kinda funny)
X-Pac vs Owen Hart - ★★
New Age Outlaws vs New Midnight Express - N/A
The Rock vs Ken Shamrock - ★★¾
Undertaker vs Mankind (HIAC) - ★★★★ (Hard to rate because it's not much of a match but those spots... they're something else)
Stone Cold vs Kane (First Blood) - ★★¾ (Wasn't what I hoped for but still not too bad. The lowering of the cell made no sense since it didn't play into anything significant, though.)

A decent PPV for the standards of this year. Other than the cell match, nothing really memorable exists here but enough stuff that are not a bad watch once or twice. Looking forward to the rest of the year now. I remember enjoying the Kane/Austin rematch so we shall see how it holds up tomorrow.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've always had trouble rating Taker/Mankind myself. I sort of consider a segment more than a match. But as fantastic one, nevertheless.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well... Vengeance still isn't done :lmao. In fact I tidied up my desk the other day and ended up putting the disc back in the dvd case and stuck it back on the shelf :lmao. God knows when I'll finish it :lmao.

Oh hey, JD 04 ramble posted on my BLOG~!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Flair For the Gold - Arn Anderson (WCW Saturday Night 05.08.1993)*

x26ckqq

*Flair for the Gold - Dusty Rhodes (WCW Saturday Night 06.26.1993)*

x26clxy

*Flair for the Gold - Johnny B. Badd (WCW Saturday Night 06.05.1993)*

x26cn0b

*Flair for the Gold - Col. Parker (WCW Saturday Night 06.19.1993)*

x26coja

*Flair For the Gold - Shockmaster Debut (WCW Clash Of the Champions 08.18.1993)*

x26cpod

*By request


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

I wanna say this before anything else: I would keep the title on Lesnar and he doesn't job in any way until WM31 to make that moment really have the highest emotional impact possible.

That said, here's a scenario I have as an alternative.

Cena wins in a flukey fashion such as a jackknife rollup, and is immediately obliterated by Lesnar. Rollins successfully cashes in .

On Raw, both Cena and Lesnar demand HHH to give them their title shots they're owed as former champs. HHH tells Heyman that he agrees Lesnar is owed a match, and that such a match will be so great for business that it'll come at a later time when the people can watch it on the WWE Network for just $9.99, not a "backwards market" like Memphis. HHH also mentions that Rollins is his project and doesn't think it's good for business for Rollins to combat with Lesnar. Lesnar says to piss off and contact his agent when HHH is ready to conduct business the right way.

HHH does grant Cena his rematch that night. Rollins holds onto the title by countout, and smugly is leaving until Ambrose makes his epic return to close out Raw.

Rollins cheats his way to victory over Ambrose inside the HIAC, and Ambrose refuses to accept it. But Reigns returns in the meantime and reminds everyone that his last match before emergency surgery was a clean win over Rollins, and thus he's due a shot. Rollins then points out that Reigns failed to support Ambrose and this demand for a title shot proves that Reigns is all about himself.

Reigns and Ambrose are the final two in the Rumble match. They simultaneously eliminate each other, and both are declared the winners to keep the Philly crowd happy. The next night, HHH says that this hasn't happened since 1994, but that only one of them should headline WM in the name of doing what's best for business. Ambrose vs. Reigns at the Chamber is set. That match gets out of hand and they brawl outside, causing the ref to throw it out for a double countout.

Meanwhile, Rollins had cheated to hold onto the title against Batista at Survivor Series, and against the returning D-Bry at the Rumble. The Chamber match will be Rollins vs. Cena vs. Cesaro vs. Rusev vs. D-Bry vs. Orton for the title, and Rollins wins yet again.

*The main event of WM31 for the WWE Title: Rollins vs. Ambrose vs. Reigns*

However, the night after the Rumble, Heyman demanded that Lesnar gets his rematch for the title during the Chamber participants hype segment. Heyman says it's WM season and therefore it's best for business for Lesnar to headline WM. He also is kind enough to remind us that "SPEAKING OF WRESTLEMANIA, MY CLIENT BROCK LESNAR BROKE THE UNDERTAKER'S UNDEFEATED STREAK LAST YEAR AT WRESTLEMANIA~!" Heyman says this over and over again, but he gets interrupted by D-Bry.

"Paul, just stop it already. I got a few things I've been wanting to say to you for many, many months. We get it, Brock Lesnar broke the Streak, and he'll go down in history for that. That is worthy of praise. But let me ask you this - did he beat three of the greatest WWE superstars ever in two main event matches, standing tall at the end of last year's WrestleMania as WWE Champion?"

Heyman stammers, but D-Bry says he isn't finished.

"Let me ask you this: I waited several months to get my rematch too, but did you hear my wife Brie Bella coming out here bitching about it? Did you ever hear her coming out to speak for me and brag about the history that I made at last year's WrestleMania? NO~! So why don't you tell your client this. Let him stay home on his neverending vacations while the rest of us in here bust our asses for these people, guys like us who give everything we have to be here every night, to come back from all the injuries that have put us on the shelf. Now piss off!"

D-Bry then bitch-slaps Heyman to the delight of the crowd and amusment of everyone else who'd be in the ring.

Lesnar screws D-Bry at the Chamber, allowing Rollins to win. Lesnar destroys D-Bry and stands tall to close out the show.

*WM31 - Brock Lesnar vs. Daniel Bryan*


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PW5cVCMXbX4

Just watched this again. It's still perfect.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Bryan Danielson vs Jon Moxley (DGUSA Way Of The Ronin)*

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/indy-...-jon-moxley-dgusa-way-ronin.html#post39809322

* By request


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PW5cVCMXbX4
> 
> Just watched this again. It's still perfect.


Well this was awesome. Like, best thing I've watched wrestling wise in quite some time. Tajiri's scream as he hits the running dropkick was epic. EPIC.


----------



## Mike Smalling (Sep 30, 2005)

Just watched Wrestlemania 21.

What stood out to me most there was Batista. Regardless of the underwhelming match-up, Batista more than grew up into his role imo. They ruined it by bringing him back. Had Batista not come back after Mania 26, it would have been for the best. His heel turn, and subsequent badassery in said role....should have come a a lot earlier. It would have been amazing to see him as a monster heel in early-mid 2008.

It's freaky that it was a decade ago now. And even more freakier that we have Reigns stepping into the main event scene at whichever time. (He reminds me a LOT of Batista) Wrestlemania 31. Wow. As an astute reviewer points out, "The end of an era, and we haven't even said our goodybyes yet." 

Lets give Reigns a chance. I'm skeptical however.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Cactus Jack vs Vader (Super Grudge Match) (WCW Saturday Night 04.24.1993)*

x26cz2a


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PW5cVCMXbX4
> 
> Just watched this again. It's still perfect.


Amazing.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> Well... Vengeance still isn't done :lmao. In fact I tidied up my desk the other day and ended up putting the disc back in the dvd case and stuck it back on the shelf :lmao. God knows when I'll finish it :lmao.
> 
> Oh hey, JD 04 ramble posted on my BLOG~!


Just re-read your Eddie/JBL review, it's one of the better ones you've done. Still pissed you ***** Eddie/JBL out of their 5-star rating, you even said it's a perfect match in your final thoughts :side:

Oh well, Cal's gonna Cal I suppose


The Fab Four said:


> *Cactus Jack vs Vader (Super Grudge Match) (WCW Saturday Night 04.24.1993)*
> 
> x26cz2a


Ahhhh, you rule man thanks I've been eagerly anticipating this :mark::mark::mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

It's great making my way through these 1997 Nitro's regarding Eddie's heel turn, and how the commentators put over just how much of an arsehole he has become lol. Eddie just fed his own damn brother, Hector, to Malenko to get a kicking. What a douche.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Zep, you should post that Goldust/HBK ladder match over here for others to see. I'm on my phone otherwise I would do it.

Rather interesting to witness Goldust still experimenting with his character work and trying to put the pieces together. Frustrating at times, but he is so far removed now from what he was then. I assume HBK is in one of his moods as he isn't stacking up to the "1996 Shawn is goat" calibre and coasting considering it is effectively a large gated house show but nothing is bad in it. For completionists, such as myself, though, that was a superb find.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

This one:





Ive got another one from Madison Square Garden in '96 too, just a singles match though that one. Plus the Taker/HBK vs Mankind/Goldust match too.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Zep you are the MAN :mark:


^ Is that their Detroit match ?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Just started watching that HBK/Goldust ladder match and the opening credits/video thing reminded how epic Goldust's original theme was :moyes1

WHAT? THERE'S A HBK/TAKER VS. GOLDUST/MAKIND MATCH?!?!?!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Eva Marie said:


> Zep you are the MAN :mark:
> 
> 
> ^ Is that their Detroit match ?


Think it was from Toronto. As i have the whole house show, and that ladder match is listed on there



Flux said:


> Just started watching that HBK/Goldust ladder match and the opening credits/video thing reminded how epic Goldust's original theme was :moyes1
> 
> WHAT? THERE'S A HBK/TAKER VS. GOLDUST/MAKIND MATCH?!?!?!


Yup:






Ive got another Goldust/HBK match from Illinois too.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HOLY. SHIT. At that Tag on paper.

Only would sound better if Taker tagged w/Goldust instead.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Made sense as they were feuding with one another at the time. (HBK/Goldust and Taker/Mankind).

Shame they couldn't do it on PPV, or even Raw TBH.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Fab Four said:


> *Cactus Jack vs Vader (Super Grudge Match) (WCW Saturday Night 04.24.1993)*
> 
> x26cz2a



Guys if the match on paper wasn't enough to get you to click let me just take a second to pimp this match, it's fucking awesome. Might be my new favorite of the Cactus/Vader series. Don't let the length of the clip fool you it's only about a 10 minute match, but it has a Foley promo before and then a bunch of "aftermath" afterwards. Definitely give it a watch folks, it's an excellent, meaty, physical, brawl type match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah the Foley interview was seperate, but thought id add it on as it was relevant.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

HBK/Taker vs. Foley/Goldy is one of the best house show matches I've ever seen.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

To prepare for NOC, I decided to go through every televised one-on-one Orton/Jericho match.

Raw 5 July 2004 - ★★★½
Armaggedon 2007 - ★★★¼
Tribute to the Troops 2007 - ★★½
Raw 27 September 2010 - ★★¼
Raw 14 May 2012 - ★★
Smackdown 12 July 2014 - ★★½

Not expecting anything big for tonight but hoping that they can at least come close to their best match (which happens to be their first one too).

Now back to 1998 as July is about to begin!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Make sure to pay close attention to the main event scene because the Taker/Austin/Kane feud is confusing as shit. Kane can't decide which side he wants to be in, Undertaker starts acting like a teenager, and Austin keeps losing the title when he should be keeping it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah, it's already confusing as Undertaker seems to be undecided which side he's on. I have no clue what the fuck he was doing at KOTR when he poured gasoline on the referee. :lmao


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Meltzer on Takeover II:

The Ascension (c) vs. Kalisto/Sin Cara **1/4
CJ Parker vs. Baron Corbin no rating
Sylvester Lefort vs. Enzo Amore *1/4
Bull Dempsey vs. Mojo Rawley no rating
Charlotte (c) vs. Bayley **3/4
Adrian Neville (c) vs. Sami Zayn vs. Tyler Breeze vs. Tyson Kidd ****1/2


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

After Summerslam, you're going to experience an entire month of a shit ton of classic Austin/Vince moments. So many great ones to name. The wrestling and PPVs will still suck though. Honestly I really think Austin should have held the title until Survivor Series while he faces the likes of Rock, Shamrock, and Bossman in title matches in the meantime. Austin was so hot at the time that his overness could have been rubbed off on more guys, even if he still ended up being the winner of those matches.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

DoubtGin said:


> Meltzer on Takeover II:
> 
> Adrian Neville (c) vs. Sami Zayn vs. Tyler Breeze vs. Tyson Kidd ****1/2


:homer4


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> Yeah, it's already confusing as Undertaker seems to be undecided which side he's on. I have no clue what the fuck he was doing at KOTR when he poured gasoline on the referee. :lmao


For some odd reason this guy :russo thought it was a good idea to add the stipulation if Kane lost the First Blood match to Stone Cold he would set himself on fire. Undertaker did not want to see that happen so help did all he could to help Kane win that match.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

I rewatched 98 last year and had no idea was Kane and the Undertaker were doing either lol.

I still haven't got a clue. My guess is they were always flip flopping. Kane liked Undertaker but Taker didn't like Kane, and then the next day Taker liked Kane but Kane didn't like Undertaker. They were never on the same page. That's the only thing that I can think makes sense.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Kevin Steen vs El Generico (Ladder Match) (PWG Steen Wolf 2011)*

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/indy-...match-pwg-steen-wolf-2011-a.html#post39822002

* By request


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

:mark: Generico lands on my friend in the crowd at one point during that match.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Fab Four said:


> *Kevin Steen vs El Generico (Ladder Match) (PWG Steen Wolf 2011)*
> 
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/indy-...match-pwg-steen-wolf-2011-a.html#post39822002
> 
> * By request


M O T D C ! :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> M O T D C ! :mark:



That was the only big Generico/Steen match I could never seem to find so I just asked Zeppers if by some random chance he had and it and booyah Zep came through like always with the upload. My Giants just won, and now i get to watch a match I've been dying to see for forever. Today is a good day :dance


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Hardcore Show said:


> For some odd reason this guy :russo thought it was a good idea to add the stipulation if Kane lost the First Blood match to Stone Cold he would set himself on fire. Undertaker did not want to see that happen so help did all he could to help Kane win that match.


From which period did Russo start booking for WWF? I didn't even realize he was behind this but now looking at it carefully, it does have Russo's typical nonsense written all over it. It is entertaining all the same, though.

So the Stone Cold vs Kane rematch was alright. Not as good as I remembered but enjoyable and better than their First Blood match. I think ff was complaining about Austin not selling the right arm but he has no reason to. The arm injury was not kayfabe and Kane never worked on it at any point. Plus it was the right hand and since most wrestlers are right handed or use the right hand primarily, it's that much harder to sell.

As fun as the TV stuff are to watch, I must admit the midcard division is a whole bunch of "who gives a fuck?". Now they have this ridiculous Brawl for All concept introduced as well. Much easier when I just skip through all this bullshit and get to the good parts of the show (The Rock, DX & the main event).


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Chismo said:


> M O T D C ! :mark:


"I knew...we were going to tear the fucking roof off" :banderas


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Meng & Barbarian vs Fit Finlay & Dave Taylor (WCW Monday Nitro 01.25.1999)*

x26duz0


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Fab Four said:


> *Kevin Steen vs El Generico (Ladder Match) (PWG Steen Wolf 2011)*
> 
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/indy-...match-pwg-steen-wolf-2011-a.html#post39822002
> 
> * By request



Well, I honestly thought up until now that Benoit vs Jericho RR 01' was the pinnacle of singles ladder matches and would never be topped, as I have that match at ***** and think it's absolutely perfect. BUT, I think it might have been topped by Generico/Steen here. I have never, in my entire life, seen anything like that. How in the fuck are those guys still walking around, let alone wrestling? The margin of error for a lot of those spots is so slim, either one of those guys could have broken their neck, back, or been paralyzed in numerous different places. But they didn't, they didn't fuck up, that's what makes this such an unbelievable match. The amount of punishment Jericho and Benoit dish out to each other in their classic match is inhuman, so what does that mark the punishment that Generico and Steen dished out to each other? What's worse than inhuman? The best part is, they do these spots in ways that don't seem overly choreographed, they build to each one superbly, AND THEN THEY SELL THE EFFECTS PERFECTLY. That's one of my biggest pet peeves in some matches, especially some that take place on the indies. They do these positively brutal moves to each other then just pop right back up and go into another sequence. That's not wrestling. What Generico and Steen did IS wrestling. These guys were just KILLING each other in the ring....AND THEY SOLD IT LIKE THEY HAD JUST BEEN KILLED. Unbelievable. Simply unbelievable.

This is one of the most amazing matches I've ever witnessed. Kudos to both guys for putting themselves through that, what they did will certainly stand the test of time. They raised the bar to impossible heights for singles ladder matches. I once was certain Benoit/Jericho would never be topped, now I'm just as certain Steen/Generico will never be topped as the best singles ladder match. We will see, I suppose.

Rating: *****. My buddy Chis' was right, that's a MOTDC, no if, ands, or buts about it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Fab Four said:


> *Meng & Barbarian vs Fit Finlay & Dave Taylor (WCW Monday Nitro 01.25.1999)*


OH MY GODDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD 


Cody where are you DID YOU KNOW THIS WAS A THING????


also reposting because it deserves it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PW5cVCMXbX4

I should make it my sig.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Well, I honestly thought up until now that Benoit vs Jericho RR 01' was the pinnacle of singles ladder matches and would never be topped, as I have that match at ***** and think it's absolutely perfect. BUT, I think it might have been topped by Generico/Steen here.


HFS. Very high praise. I am shitty at keeping up with indy promotions so matches like these end up flying under my radar. Can't wait to give this one a watch!


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> HBK/Taker vs. Foley/Goldy is one of the best house show matches I've ever seen.


That sounds like a ridiculous amount of fun.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Opening tag match was fun. Good stuff.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yea I'll go ***1/4 for the Usos/Dust Bros tag. I'm just happy to see Dustin and Cody with the belts, I've been sick of this never ending shitty Usos tag team reign. Their work is just shit. Not one single thing about it is believable. The only positive thing I can say about them is that they are natural baby faces and atleast they get the crowd into their matches. Otherwise, they are essentially the tag team version of Kofi Kingston for me, just sloppy, unbelievable offense with spotty selling and no real purpose behind anything they do.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Not the most sound match in terms of technical aspects and not the tightest match on psychology, but it told a story, enjoyed the glove spot conveying the craziness of Stardust, liked the Usos using the callback for the leg offense. Not the best technically and not as good or brought the carnage the Wyatts did but a fun good match nontheless and a fine opener. ***


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

On the contrary, I really liked that Usos tag run. Lots and lots of good matches. Good booking. This was the time to end a strong title reign and move on to hopefully an equally great one.

Usos/Dustbros: ****1/2*
Sheamus/Cesaro: ****1/2*


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Sheamus/Cesaro was fucking great.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

The finish in that Cesaro / Sheamus match was awesome. The beginning was rather slow (still liked it) and I'd preferred Cesaro to go over, but this was great.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Much preferred their Payback match, still a good match though.

***1/2 for both matches so far.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> On the contrary, I really liked that Usos tag run. Lots and lots of good matches. Good booking. This was the time to end a strong title reign and move on to hopefully an equally great one.
> 
> Usos/Dustbros: ****1/2*
> Sheamus/Cesaro: ****1/2*



You're fucking out of your mind giving Cesaro/Sheamus the same rating at the tag match. FINALLY, finally I feel like Sheamus/Cesaro found their grove and reached their potential. Their matches earlier this year were good but never quite reached that "great" territory they are capable of. That was wayyyy better than Payback.

That was a real sweet match there. Complete opposite of the Usos style, their offense looked legit because it WAS legit. 

**** for Sheamus/Cesaro.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Usos/Rhodes: ***
Sheamus/Cesaro: ****


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Sheamus/Cesaro :mark::mark:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

That torture rack slam thingy counter to the Brogue Kick was :mark: :mark: :mark:

>>> their Payback match imo.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Cesaro beating the crap out of Sheamus towards the end :mark: :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I love four other Cesaro/Sheamus matches more than that. RAW match in 2012, Smackdown match in 2013, Main Event bout, and Payback match. My goodness what a combination.

EDIT: Good match, but why are the commentators paying more attention to a country band than to a title change?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> That torture rack slam thingy counter to the Brogue Kick was :mark: :mark: :mark:
> 
> >>> their Payback match imo.



Agreed dude. Thought he was gonna do the UFO for a sec.

I can hardly watch this Dolph/Miz match with these fuck heads babbling on about their shitty music in the background. Wtf is WWE thinking putting these dumb shits no one has heard of or cares about on commentary to shill their god awful country music? This company, man. This. Fucking. Company.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

What an average IC title match that was. Thanks to those fuckers on commentary.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I love four other Cesaro/Sheamus matches more than that. RAW match in 2012, Smackdown match in 2013, Main Event bout, and Payback match. My goodness what a combination.


All great matches but I don't think I enjoyed any of them as much as what I just watched. So gangster.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I love four other Cesaro/Sheamus matches more than that. RAW match in 2012, Smackdown match in 2013, Main Event bout, and Payback match. My goodness what a combination.
> 
> EDIT: Good match, but why are the commentators paying more attention to a country band than to a title change?


Nah no way, only their Main Event bout from 2013 comes close. That was the best match they have had, much much better than PB or Raw or SD.



DoubtGin said:


> What an average IC title match that was. Thanks to those fuckers on commentary.


Jesus that commentary single handedly ruined the match. This just screams Vince/Kevin Dunn. No one knows who those duck less shit fucks are nor do they care we care about WRESTLING that's why we are watching WRESTLING. If they wanted to do a backstage segment that's fine but don't shit all over an IC title match most people actually cared about to shill your pussy ass country music.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

I haven't seen anything from 12/13, but this was WAY better than their Payback match, imo.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

AMBROSE IN DA HOUSE :mark: :mark:


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Jesus that commentary single handedly ruined the match. This just screams Vince/Kevin Dunn. No one knows who those duck less shit fucks are nor do they care we care about WRESTLING that's why we are watching WRESTLING. If they wanted to do a backstage segment that's fine but don't shit all over an IC title match most people actually cared about to shill your pussy ass country music.


I agree man, that was just horrible. They completely buried everyone in that match. Way to build up your second most prestigious (lol, yea) title right now.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Ambrose :mark:

I'm still pissed that they gave Reigns a clean win over Rollins on TV. Ambrose/Rollins is white hot.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> Ambrose :mark:
> 
> I'm still pissed that they gave Reigns a clean win over Rollins on TV. Ambrose/Rollins is white hot.



Me too, but they just got a bunch of heat back doing that segment. Doesn't excuse that AWFUL decision to have Roman go over Rollins, let alone go over him clean on free TV, but still.

Breaking News: Ladies and Gentleman, in case you weren't already aware, Dean Ambrose is a fucking STAR. :mark::mark::mark:


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Well that came off really damn well. This ppv has been more entertaining than it had a right to be on paper and now we are at what I consider to be a potential sleeper here depending on how it's structured. Really interested if this is gonna be a generic titanic clash or if its gonna a slugfest


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

The only (huge) letdown was the IC match. Rest has been spot-on so far.

Ambrose :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Best non-main event feud in ages.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

This was basically a squash. Weird this got such a buildup and even closed the last RAW.

I still liked what I saw but I wanted a more competitive match, to be honest.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

DoubtGin said:


> This was basically a squash. Weird this got such a buildup and even closed the last RAW.
> 
> I still liked what I saw but I wanted a more competitive match, to be honest.



Ditto. I hate the WWE for squashing Henry like that. Putting Rusev in a good, competitive, somewhat back and forth match with Henry would have only helped him, not hindered. 

Now, the stage is perfectly set. Cena comes out on Raw, subtlety belittles Swagger and Henry for not getting the job done, overcomes the odds, and beats Rusev cleanly at either HiaC or SVS. Done deal. Ugh.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

DoubtGin said:


> This was basically a squash. Weird this got such a buildup and even closed the last RAW.
> 
> I still liked what I saw but I wanted a more competitive match, to be honest.


Same. Swagger looked way stronger against Rusev than Henry did just now. Strange booking.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

so slow


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'll be the brave soul and announce that I like that match. I expect DUDs from everyone else.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Orton vs. Jericho was just alright.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Well I can't remember the last time Ive seen someone have to carry Jericho to a good match (Jericho a good occassionaly fantastic worker throughout his career), but in my eyes that is what just happened. Pretty damn solid performance from Randy though ranging from a old man Flair esque offense/cussing sell job to classic Orton to that selling fakeout counter. Nice performance from Randy.

edit: meant to type decent not good. decent match. Man though Jericho has lost steps.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Watched the whole show thus far. Why the hell have they not shown a single buildup video until this Divas match? 

Sheamus/Cesaro has been MOTN but Payback was much better bell to bell imo.

Henry/Rusev was a huge disappointment. I have no idea why Henry came off so slower than normal.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Match wasn't complete shit but it was really just alright.. I didn't expect that much, to be honest, since Jericho didn't have one really good match in this run, I think.

There was no heat between those two which didn't help, either. Every move was predictable and the match had such a bad pace. The finish was especially awful; Jericho basically screamed at Orton to get up for about a minute just to eat that painfully obvious RKO.

I am one of the bigger Jericho marks on here but this run was horrible. He clearly is out of shape and the feuds he had were pretty random. He also had no freedom on the mic obviously, so his greatest asset wasn't available. It pains me to say this, but as long as he doesn't fully commit to the WWE, he shouldn't come back in an active wrestling role.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Hate to sound sexist but let's get this over with quick so we get a nice long Lesnar/Cena match. PPVs usually end a tad early and I have a fear with fuckery this is gonna go twenty minutes.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I really liked Orton/Jericho 

***3/4


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

***1/4 for Orton-Jericho, better than I expected.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton/Jericho was good. Close but not enough to beat Sheamus/Cesaro for MOTN. Henry/Rusev was crap, IC title match was a joke that I never cared about (good to see the title change, tho) and I didn't watch the opener other than the last minutes.

If Bork and Cena put on something good (hopefully a non-squash), this can be the best non-major PPV this year.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Edit: FINAL RATINGS:

Usos/Dust Bros: ***1/4
Cesaro/Sheamus: ****
Miz/Ziggler: ** (totally ruined by commentary/WWE in general)
Rollins/Ambrose: *** for the segment and AWESOME booking of Ambrose. 
Rusev/Henry: **1/2 (weird booking)
Jericho/Orton: ***1/4 (not too shabby, not great, but pretty good for a nothing match with no heat)
AJ/Paige/Nikki: smoke break
Cena/Brock: ****1/4

Someone just mentioned Ambrose/Rollins and said it's "the best non-Main Event feud in ages". Totally agree. Coincidentally today I just watched another EPIC non-Main Event feud in it's entirety, the Matt Hardy/Edge feud. In my eyes this feud is one of the best things WWE has ever done, and is certainly a contender for best Non-Main Event feud. The 3 full-length matches they had (Street Fight, Cage, Ladder match) were all classics, and their Summrslam match is a contender for GOAT 5 minute match. Just unbelievable stuff all around from 2 guys who legitimately hated each other. It would have been even better if Matt Hardy could cut a damn promo :lol

Now, I know Ambrose/Rollins don't legitimately hate each other, but it's a testament to how great both guys are that their fire and heat in the matches/brawls is reminding me a lot of Hardy/Edge.

So yea, I'd say Rollins/Ambrose might be the best non-ME feud WWE has done since Hardy/Edge. I'm loving every second of it.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Damn I didn't think I'd be in the minority by not liking that match .

I might give it a try later on.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

"I dont think Iv ever seen that in a championship match before"-JBL

Well if I recall Mickie James did rub her hand on Trish Stratus' crotch and licked it so...... we've seen worse


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm not watching NOC, but lemme guess, it was those Florida-Georgia Line cunts? :lmao


I was going to post some 2010 shit in here but I'll leave it until later when the PPV is over.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I'm not watching NOC, but lemme guess, it was those Florida-Georgia Line cunts? :lmao
> 
> 
> I was going to post some 2010 shit in here but I'll leave it until later when the PPV is over.


Wow you are good. :side:


Lesnar is simply such an amazing worker.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

How the hell did Yeah1993 know that? And what 2010 show will he review? Did he ever finish Money in the Bank?

EDIT: :lmao THIS COMPANY!


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

what the actual fuck


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cena and Lesnar delivered again.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Well Brock/Cena III was great, that finish was stupid, but atleast we still have Brock as the champ.

Look, the finish sucked. No getting around it. But you know WWE, they can't allow John boy to lose clean twice after getting dominated by Brock, kids might waver in their faith or some ridiculous thing.

Either way, I thoroughly enjoyed Brock/Cena III. ****1/4

This was definitely the best "B" PPV of the year.

Anyone else love how Cena and Brock don't just have normal wrestling matches? In all 3 of their matches, they give you the feel it's a totally legitimate fight. It's different than anything else WWE does. When Brock wrestled Punk, they had a certified classic, 5-star match. It proves Brock can still work a modern pro wrestling match at the highest level. But vs Cena, Brock and John just make everything so fucking physical, they really pound on each other and make it seem like they are really fighting. Outside of John's STF's tonight, which were as bad a looking submission hold as I've ever seen, everything they did was physical and realistic. I just loved it.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

****1/4 for Brock-Cena, finish doesn't bother me, I'm guessing they go again inside the Cell and along with Ambrose-Rollins HIAC has the potential to be amazing.

Good show overall, Henry-Rusev was poor and Miz-Ziggler was underwhelming but I enjoyed everything else.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

I am really confused by that ending, but not really that bothered. I still expected Cena to lose again, but Brock is still the champ and he didn't look as weak as some probably think.

Match was pretty great.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Lesnar stands tall, but is there a crack in the armor of the beast?
Will Lesnar restore his power level in his next outing?
How will Cena react to having the win of his career slip through his fingers?
Will anyone ever come that close to having Lesnar beat again?
Did Seth Rollins have the title victory if John hadn't screwed it up?
Where the hell does Dean Ambrose factor into all this?

Find out next time on DBZ (I mean WWE!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> This was definitely the best "B" PPV of the year.


Elimination Chamber was better.

Main event was a solid match but still not as good as the ER classic and the finish was pure garbage. But more importantly, Brock is still champion.

Fingers crossed he takes HIAC off (no more Cena matches and fuck the Big Show) and Orton turns face to challenge him at Survivor Series. If only they would let him wrestle Sheamus at HIAC.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cena/Lesnar IV and Ambrose/Rollins in the Cell plz :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> How the hell did Yeah1993 know that? And what 2010 show will he review? Did he ever finish Money in the Bank?


;D


I'll be posting some TV stuff. Not finished w/ MITB yet.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think Lesnar and Cena have run out of ideas. That was a good match, but I wouldn't classify it as great because nothing great really happened. MOTN goes to Sheamus/Cesaro for the second time this year. Elimination Chamber was slightly better, but great PPV nonetheless. But yeah, I'm fatigued of Cena/Lesnar. Bring on Orton/Lesnar!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Elimination Chamber was better.
> 
> Main event was a solid match but still not as good as the ER classic and the finish was pure garbage. But more importantly, Brock is still champion.
> 
> Fingers crossed he takes HIAC off (no more Cena matches and fuck the Big Show) and Orton turns face to challenge him at Survivor Series. If only they would let him wrestle Sheamus at HIAC.



Agreed ER was the best of the bunch, but I think all 3 of their matches are great and very, very unique. But I can't cosign that EC was better, that was a 2 match show, really. Wyatt's/Shield was unbelievable and a certain MOTYC, and the Chamber itself was great. What else is there?

For the record I think Summerslam has been the best, most consistent show so far this year. Didn't have the highs of some of the other shows, but every match was atleast good. WM 30 would be a close second, of course.

For the Brock/Cena matches, I have them at:

Extreme Rules 2012: ****3/4 (finish is the only thing that keeps it from getting 5)
Summerslam 2014: ****
Night of Champions 2014: ****1/4

What did you have them rated?


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

I just want to start off by saying Renee Young is so fine.

Tag Team Championshp
Goldust & Stardust vs The Usos (c)
***1/2
Pretty good match, but I didn't like the roll-up ending. I marked out when Stardust got the 3-count though.

US Championship
Cesaro vs Sheamus (c)
****
Brawlin clinic. Both performers were great.

IC Championship
The Miz vs Dolph Ziggler (c)
***
Very average match. Had occasional spots. Mizdow was the best part of the match.

Rollins/Ambrose segment was fuckin awesome.
Steph looking great as always.

America vs Russia
Mark Henry vs Rusev
***
Average. Nothing crazy, aside from Lillian Garcia killing the national anthem and Henry killing those tears.

Old Rivalries
Chris Jericho vs Randy Orton
***1/2
Pretty good. Very nice ending. Orton's ring psychology is perfect.

Triple Threat Divas Championship 
Nikki Bella vs AJ Lee vs Paige (c)
***1/2
Pretty good. Ending was cool. Nikki stepped it up. Paige was awesome.

World Heavyweight Championship
John Cena vs Brock Lesnar (c)
***1/2
Some nice spots, but I was expecting more. The ending was batshit crazy haha.

RAW will be good.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Big E and Swagger it was I think, they had a good match at EC too. Batista/Del Rio was entertaining for the wrong reasons and the two main events are classics. Pretty much all I need. Tonight we had three very good matches but nothing reached those highs so I can't rate this show as high. Still enjoyed it even with the fuckwits in the discussion thread trying to ruin it with their constant whining about everything and anything.

As for the ratings:

ER 2012: ★★★★¾
SS 14: ★★★½
NOC 14: ★★★¾ (will have to rewatch because there was a bit lagging in my stream)

No more Cena/Bork please! It does feel like they are running out of ideas due to how their first two matches were booked. At least we got something closer to a proper match tonight instead of a complete one-sided squash.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Tag Titles: ***
Sheamus/Cesaro: ***3/4
Ziggler/Miz: *3/4
Henry/Rusev: **
Orton/Jericho: **1/2
Paige/Nikki/AJ: *3/4
Lesnar/Cena: ***1/4

- Man, the commentary was absolutely unbearable for the IC Title match and it just destroyed the match. That, plus the unneeded overbooking that will mean nothing tomorrow took away from the match and made the IC Title feel secondary to everything else. The title change didn't even get a big reaction.

- Thank god The Usos title reign is over. It should have been over at Battleground to the Wyatts, but I'll take this.

- They made Rusev look like a million bucks tonight. I honestly expected a more back and forth battle, but Rusev won very convincingly and continues to look strong. Great stuff.

- Jericho has lost a lot of steps in the ring. The result was never in question, and the set up for the entire match was just so garbage. There was no heat or steam behind anything. It's a typical television match which is usually used to advance an ongoing feud, except in this case, it was used for a PPV match and not to advance anything, really.

- I have no idea what the point of the titles switching hands at Summerslam was now that they only lasted a month.

- The Ambrose return was top notch. Much needed energy is back in the company, and the hottest feud can resume towards Hell in a Cell.

- Nothing spectacular in the main event. Nothing these two do with touch their ER match, and the SS match was just so out of nowhere that it's great. It was unexpected. Tonight was Summerslam II, but with Cena getting in more offense. It was alright, but nothing crazy... except for that finish. I legit thought we were about to see a cash in. The curb stomp was great, the crowd was hot for it. I was ready to see a new champion not named Cena. That was some great stuff.

Now, that sets up Lesnar/Cena at HIAC and Ambrose/Rollins for HIAC. Lesnar/Cena inside the cell is inevitable, but let's see what they do with Rollins/Ambrose. It definitely warrants a hell in a cell, so hopefully WWE pulls the trigger on it.

EDIT: oh, and the cash in tease can set up issues between Lesnar and The Authority for down the road.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I was really into the continuity of Cena/Lesnar. They took the formula of the SummerSlam match, which worked wonderfully, and enhanced it with the new layer of the story. Lesnar was the same beast he was a month before but this time we saw a different John Cena. He was able to muster more offense and attempt a lot more comebacks as well as use the AA as an ace up his sleeve so to speak, which I thought did an excellent job of making Cena look like a serious threat to Lesnar without making Brock look weak. The finish is what it is. If it leads to another rematch at HiaC I'm cool with that. If it was just their way of protecting Cena while keeping the title on Lesnar then so be it. Great match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Night Of Champions thoughts:

Usos vs. Gold & Stardust was good, but not as good as I think it could've been. Don't remember much of anything standout form the first half but the finishing stretch was fun. I didn't get much of a sense that the Dust Bros were heels though. That sort of confused me. Felt like a face vs. face match to me (which would've been fine but it shouldn't have been that way). Lots of positive reactions for the title change and thank GOD it finally came, but it should've been the Wyatts last month. Oh well. Solid match, little meh on the actual finish. ***

Sheamus vs. Cesaro started off slow with some weird headlocks and sleeperholds, but once it picked up I was hella into it. Love the sequence Cesaro put together where he hit the waterslide. Match was real good but I liked the Payback match better as a whole. Nonstop action there. Finish was rather predictable here. Wish they would've went with something more creative. Despite Sheamus not defending the U.S. Title very often, he's put together a damn solid reign. *** 1/2

Miz vs. Ziggler was by far the worst match they've had in their series. Florida Georgia Line being involved is worthless and why the hell do they keep taking the belt away from Ziggler after one month? Ughhhh. Like ** maybe?

AMBROSE!!!!

Henry vs. Rusev was a complete disappointment. It was slow, clunky, and never got into any rhythm. Really sucks because the Swagger & Big E matches were so well worked and entertaining. No Rating.

Jericho vs. Orton was ridiculously slow and drawn out. None of the sequences or nearfalls they came up with came anywhere close to matching the Orton/Reigns match from Summerslam. You could see the finish coming from 3 miles away. ** - ** 1/2?

Divas match was worthless until the last minute or two. Hot shottin the belt.

I thought Lesnar vs. Cena was gonna be the exact same match we saw last month, but then Cena started mounting some serious offense and I got suckered into it big time. Lesnar taking the gloves off is always a badass moment. Cena relentlessly hitting those AAs and locking in the STF was seriously great and I thought it was legitimately gonna be over. The finish was a huge swerve that got a big reaction outta me. Match didn't hit the level that it did last month, but I found it enjoyable. *** 1/2

Lesnar vs. Cena & Ambrose vs. Rollins both inside Hell in a Cell sound incredible. :mark:


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Lesnar/Cena was NOT good. No more please, although it looks like they're setting up a match for HIAC.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I thought Cena/Lesnar was good up until the finish tbh. I liked how they played off their Summerslam match with the germans and Brock kicking out at one after the first AA was complete badass. Also, Brock looked even more badass getting up after curb stomp. Still, the finish was just all over the place. Why would Rollins try to cash in on Brock of all people? Also why will he hit the curb stomp, then cash in? Wouldn't that just give Brock time to recover?

They wanted a way to not have Cena lose clean and keep Brock as champion. How they did it was not the way to do it. You can't just act like nothing ever happened between Rollins and Lesnar now. He gave the man a curb stomp and tried to take his title! With Ambrose back on the scene they can't do Lesnar/Rollins nor would it make sense quite frankly. I don't know, had they just let Cena lose clean for once none of this shit would happen. It was indeed a clusterfuck.

As for the actual match? Meh, about ***1/4-***1/2. Man, WWE really killed the magic of their first (well second) encounter.

I think the biggest disappointment of the night for me has to be Usos/Dusts. I really thought it could have been a stellar opener. Not that it wasn't a good match but I was expecting a top-notch tag match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Another problem with the main event was that Cena's four AAs were just not that impactful to me. Yes, maybe in a vacuum it is good storytelling, but Cena has reached Kurt Angle territory with the way he spams his finishers. An AA from Cena used to make me shit my pants. Now it makes me roll my eyes. The man needed to do two of them to take out Damien freakin' Sandow. If Cena knew how to protect his finisher effectively, then I would have appreciated that piece of the storytelling in the match. It also didn't help that Lesnar did the same thing with the Kimura. The Kimura is supposed to be the deadliest submission in the business. Now I would probably put Rusev's Accolade over it.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Ratings for NOC:


Usos/Dust Bros: ***
Cesaro/Sheamus: ***3/4
Miz/Ziggler: **
Rusev/Henry: *1/2
Jericho/Orton: **1/4
AJ/Paige/Nikki: **
Cena/Brock: ***1/4

Cesaro and Sheamus delivered. Lesnar and Cena didn't. Not that the match was bad... it was a very good match. They did a good job of building on their Summerslam match, but I was finding it hard to get into it. Someone had mentioned that Lesnar and Cena, whenever they wrestle always seem like they're in a legit fight. The first two matches I agree, but this one... nah. Felt like your standard match, heel dominates, face makes a comeback and gets stopped, heel controls some more and then face comes back, leading to the finish, which was very anti-climatic. The match makes me hope we don't see Lesnar vs. Cena again because I just don't buy Cena suddenly being able to take the fight to Lesnar after getting destroyed in not one, but two matches prior. I understand it was part of the story and I guess to be fair, they had to evolve and not just have Lesnar totally destroy Cena again, but it just didn't feel right. 

Rest of the card was bleh. Usos/Dust Bros was good but that's it. Orton/Jericho was below average, Rusev/Henry disappointed majorly, Divas match wasn't too bad but could've been better, and Ziggler/Miz never had a chance with the stupid commentary (Props to Sandow for continuing to be a better Miz than Miz :lmao ). Overall, it was a one match show heading into the PPV and I still left disappointed. I liked the cash-in tease at the end and having Rollins hit the curbstomp on Lesnar was cool, and the Ambrose/Rollins brawl was great as well, but it was still all around a very lackluster PPV.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Starting the show now. I don't care if it was the worst show of all time, it's better than the game the Panthers just played by comparison. FUCK.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Fuck happened to those Panthers man? At least those uniforms looked sexy in HD and Kelvin Benjamin continued to raise his stock to becoming one of the best receivers in the league. An early candidate for Offensive ROTY for sure. Glad I snatched him up early in my fantasy league. (Y)

But um yeah, wrestling. Hope Jericho goes away now and Wyatt comes back to being what he was prior to that feud.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Fuck happened to those Panthers man? At least those uniforms looked sexy in HD and Kelvin Benjamin continued to raise his stock to becoming one of the best receivers in the league. An early candidate for Offensive ROTY for sure. Glad I snatched him up early in my fantasy league. (Y)
> 
> But um yeah, wrestling. Hope Jericho goes away now and Wyatt comes back to being what he was prior to that feud.


Yeah, man. That was rough. Benjamin was one of the bright spots in the game though. Them hands. (Y)

Watched Stardust/Goldust vs Usos so far and I still love the Dust Bros. So much fun to watch. Solid ***1/4 or so but pretty fun.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I'm not going to rate that main event until I can ponder the match some more because that was a pretty damn odd match. Right now, there is a very damn compelling creative could take this and a really bad way creative could take this.

A solid way of booking would be to make all of this a giant overlapping arc between the parties involved. Heyman can be seething and claim that all of this is a conspiracy against Heyman/Lesnar and come up with a plethora of reasons why leading to Lesnar/Heyman against Authority (if in fact the rumor is true about Lesnar and wwe did sign a deal where as long as he's paid WWE controls Lesnar's dates, this would be a superb way to get Lesnar on weekly tv by having him saw through the authority). Rollins of course has beef with Cena, which makes for an interesting dynamic and of course in order to protect the larger angle to avoid staleness, at HIAC/SS you can handle Dean/Seth's white hot feud and unfinished business in the Cell, perhaps go the Rusev/Cena side feud route and interject Orton as an obsticle to Lesnar at SS since Orton factors in here too as the man who never had a rematch. This means the next several months we could have Lesnar/Heyman vs Authority, Lesnar/Cena,Rollins/Cena, Rollins/Ambrose all running somewhat congruently.

I am afraid though that somehow John Cena is going to be interjected into this beautiful Ambrose/Rollins feud, we won't get a thing out of Lesnar/Rollins and authority and a cluster will ensue.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Yeah, I'm really curious where the main event scene goes after this. Because this PPV seems to be the start of some new feuds.

Tag title match - ***1/4
US title match - ***1/4
IC title match - **3/4
Rusev vs Henry - ***1/2
Orton vs Jericho - **1/2
Divas title match - **1/2
WWE title match - ***1/4


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm more than glad Brock is still champion, but I kinda hope we don't get a third Cena match tbh, unless Brock is working every PPV, I'd like something fresh.

It would also be stupid if they just ignore what Rollins did to Lesnar. 

They just have him and Heyman say "Ah it's alright".


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Cena/Lesnar was great, although I'd love it even more if not for the FACT they made Rollins a total jerkoff idiot who ruined the night for everyone. Seriously, why wouldn't he wait until the match is over? This makes no fucking sense. Now, onto the match - loved it once again. Cena evolved both mentally and tactically since SummerSlam, the first AA was a sign of things to come that he may actually damage Lesnar here. That's exactly what happened and he'd probably win the match if not for Rollins. From a booking standpoint, it'd be a disaster, but it'd make sense within the context of the match and how the story was handled. There was few nice details where Cena exploited Lesnar's past MMA weaknesses to gain some offense, I dug that.

****

Cena/Lesnar series:

that 2003 match bad
Extreme Rules 2012 ***3/4
SummerSlam 2014 ****3/4
Night of Champions 2014 ****


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Cena/Brock was weird. It didn't have the quality of ER12 or the impact of SS14. But it had 4 AAs /topinsight

:goku


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

2010 jargon. 

Started watching MITB (and actually wrote about it this time). Decided that before I watched Rey/Swagger I should re-watch their match from June, and took the time to watch some other stuff from TV during the year. First time I've added anything to this list in 6 months.

Jack Swagger v. Rey Mysterio (SmackDown 6/11/10)
Good match before the first commercial break. Excellent match after the first commercial break. Basically all about a difference in power, which is common Rey formula but it's the best Rey formula. Swagger starts doing all of the ''NCAA'' wrestling stuff, which I'm not allllllllways the biggest fan of, but Rey is small so watching someone toss him around on the floor makes it look like his opponent is actually getting somewhere. I thought the early 619 worked extremely well following all of that. The 619 isn't the best move to use as a flash-hit early on to get an advantage, but I love watching Rey scurry around the ring to get it executed. It's a bit of a shitty move but watching Rey sprint to the ropes almost makes it seem like he knows it's a shitty move and he has to pull it off before his opponent stands up. I think with a bigger body of work-over this match could be a real WWE MOTYC, but Swagger's ''I am mightier than you, tiny one'' moveset and Rey awesomely fighting back have me not complaining whatsoever. Swagger angrily chucking Rey into stuff after getting fed up with getting fooled around with was pretty awesome. One point he goes to the throw Rey into the ring, but Rey probably thought he was throwing him into the apron so he kind of lands back-first before rolling in. Looked fluid and natural somehow, too. I love Rey's punches the more I see them. They're so desperate and he'll do neat shit like punch knees when he's in a body scissor. On that note Swagger rubbing Rey's face in the floor after the first bodyscissor was fucking great. So was the wrap-around-the-ringpost. So was Swagger rushing to the pin following a big boot. He'd used a big boot as an equaliser beforehand, so rushing to the pin after this big boot made this big boot seem bigger, bootyer, and really put emphasis on Swagger's worry that his size difference isn't an automatic winner. Between that type of shown frustration, the gradual insulting of opponent, the ''this is stupid but I'm sure I'll get him this time'' running corner spot, and the fact he looks like a stooge, I wouldn't mind seeing Swagger in a 1992 WCW setting. And that's about the biggest compliment I could give. ADDING.

Chris Masters v. Ted DiBiase (SuperStars 1/7/10)
Figured I might start going through the stuff I wanted to see chronologically, at least by month. This is a match I never saw because like everybody else I only got on the Masters train midway through 2010, and unlike *everybody* else (though like a lot people), I find, and always found, Teddy Jr. so boring that I wouldn't seek out a match he has even versus of my favourite wrestlers in the world at the time. Probably should've tracked this down earlier because Masters DESTROYED this few minutes. Had no clue at all he was this good this early into the year. Great clubs + surprise Master Lock struggle while having his leg worked on, leg-hop after DiBiase leaves the ring, arch-back sell of the drop kick, great clothesline sell. I might genuinely watch every match Masters had on tape in 2010 for this. WWE are out there giving Kane and Randy Orton high profile matches in 2014 and Chris was let go over three years ago. Do you believe this shit? Um, like, DiBiase shook his fist once after giving Chris a punch. Guess that was all right. NOT ADDING.

Finlay v. Mike Knox (SuperStars 1/7/10)
Really, really cool SuperStars main event. Worked pretty slugfest-y until Knox needed space to heal his arm and uses a Sheamus-boot as a desperation move. They have some tussle on the outside before Finlay gets slammed to the floor, giving him a back problem for the rest of the match. His selling is obviously great, with the facial agony, stretching, and arm-behind-back-to-attempt-relief (or w/e). Knox's big man offense on the back looked good and rough, and I don't remember the last time I ever saw somebody do one of those turnbuckle shoulder-block things and hold it there while pulling on the ropes so their opponent's back would arch.Didn't really like how Finlay pulled off a firemen carry somersault (fuck are those called again?) during the back-hurtyness, but otherwise this was fun as hell. Would make a Best of SuperStars list if I had to make one of those. Finlay was barely around in 2010 so seeing him rock it is kind of a downer knowing that there's almost nothing left in the year, but if anything it got me hyped about seeing Knox's match with Rey again. Why'd they fire THAT guy, too? NOT ADDING.

Bryan Danielson v. Chavo Guerrero (Raw 1/7/10)
If I matched the date with the video correctly then this is Danielson's first appearance with the company in a dark match on Raw. With SuperStars banners. Match was all right. Best parts were Danielson stopping a dive with a Misawa elbow, Chavo's uppercut, and Danielson's foot getting caught by Chavo and doing a knee to the face instead of an enzuigiri. Had some indy mat stuff I didn't care about but it took up maybe two of five minutes. So, changing the topic, they gave Danielson ten names to choose from and one of them was ''Buddy Peacock''. Like, I don't get this company. They wouldn't have predicted he become the most over wrestler in the company, but given his background, why take the risk and name a wrestler something astronomically stupid? What if he becomes massively popular? "The winner and new WWE champion, Buddy Peacock"? Thinking about the phony names WWE offers wrestlers is actually annoying. I still think "Seth Rollins" sounds dumb as fuck. NOT ADDING.



Spoiler: WHATTUP?



1.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (SmackDown 2/12/10)
2.	John Cena v. Batista (Extreme Rules 4/25/10)
3.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Over the Limit 5/23/10)
4.	Jack Swagger v. Rey Mysterio (SmackDown 6/11/10)
5.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/16/10)
6.	Christian v. Ezekiel Jackson (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
7.	Christian/Kane v. William Regal/Ezekiel Jackson (ECW 1/26/10)
8.	Shawn Michaels v. The Undertaker (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
9.	William Regal v. Evan Bourne (SuperStars 3/4/10)
10.	Chris Jericho v. Evan Bourne (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
11.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Extreme Rules 4/29/10)
12.	The Undertaker v. Rey Mysterio (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
13.	Drew McIntyre v. Kaval (SmackDown 9/10/10)
14.	Kofi Kingston v. Drew McIntyre (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
15.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
16.	d
17.	d
18.	d
19.	d
20.	d
21.	d
22.	d
23.	d
24.	d
25.	d

Other contenders:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll be honest I liked the main event. Would have preferred a different finish, you know, with Lesnar winning and winning clean, but oh well. LESNAR IS STILL CHAMP and I'm cool with that.

Ambrose return was great. Crowd love the guy. When they opened the show and the camera looked around the arena you could make a drinking game out of all the Ambrose related signs. You'd be dead 20 seconds into the show of alcohol poisoning but hey, tis a good way to go.

Really enjoyed Cesaro/Sheamus too. Started off a little dodgy but once they kicked it into high gear it was fucking tremendous.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Ambrose entrance and pop was :mark: so was the brawl and this feud. that's all I really have to say about NOC.

Actually I did really like Cesaro/Sheamus.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

WrestlingOracle said:


> I am afraid though that somehow John Cena is going to be interjected into this beautiful Ambrose/Rollins feud, we won't get a thing out of Lesnar/Rollins and authority and a cluster will ensue.


This more than likely. Brock/Heyman will just forget about Rollins, and Cena will move onto Rollins now IMO, even with Ambrose returning.

As for Brock? Who knows, i got to be honest, i don't really want another Cena match, even in the cell, but there is a big chance that's what we'll get.

Id much rather Orton/Brock next TBH.

Oh, Cesaro/Sheamus was really great IMO.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I can't really speak on the PPV as a whole because I didn't watch it. Ambrose/Rollins segment was :mark: though. Not that I'm glad he's injured but I'm glad Reigns is out of the way so we can get these 2 back on track. Hopefully we get them in the cell. I don't know what's next for Brock. It sounds like he'll be taking HIAC off if the sheets are true. Rusev seems next on the list for Cena. Oh joy. If Henry being the protector of America was tiresome we're in for a real treat with Cena taking up the reigns next. 

Bearing in mind that I still haven't seen Cena/Lesnar from Summerslam, I liked the NOC encounter and have it on the ****3/4* mark. Their matches always have that unique aura surrounding them but I'm at the stage now where 3 is enough. I don't mind if Brock skips HIAC and then we get Orton/Brock at Survivor Series. Something fresh would be nice for both guys.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, i don't care if Brock skips HIAC, as i don't really want another Cena match just yet, and not the fucking Big Show either.

Something fresh would be nice. I do hope Heyman calls out 'The Authority' for what Rollins did last night though, do something at least.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Came across the Hideo Itami debut match via Youtube and the crowd is so refreshing to witness. It's obviously a smark-heavy group as they pop loudly for KENTA but there's not a peep of anyone shouting "KENTA" to try seem clever or obnoxious. Just unison chants of "HI-DAY-OH". I sincerely wish I could put all these guys into CZW and PWG instead of the bollocks-brains the promotions usually draw.

Match was okay, too. Nothing too good but they set Hideo up as a man with KICKZ~!. He's far and away from becoming Tajiri 2.0 but the jury is still waiting for the defence to make their case. Hopefully the guy grows more comfortable in the ring, as that debut came across as he was nervous and off-point.



NoC looks pretty skippable from what you guys have posted. I'll give the first two matches a watch but the rest of the card is baffling. They vanilla'd Summerslam to use this PPV as a selling point for the network then fail in the delivery, anyway. What's the point of Rollins attempting to cash-in before the end of the match, anyway? At best, in kayfabe terms, that's just going to anger Brock which I highly doubt we will see a payoff of if he's slated to fuck off again. It stinks of HHH not having faith in Brock to retain, so surely the guy would want to prove a point and maul the guy? Rollins is nothing more than a lackey stepping stone here. It'd be terribly weak if Lesnar stops caring after beating Rollins. Not that anything of relevant sense would happen, though. Cue WWE Creative Restart #5624.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Bret Hart vs Roddy Piper (Wrestlemania 8)*

x26evkg


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*I honest to god wouldn't be watching these shows if I wasn't invested in making money off them. Said this before but at this point I've just given up on the booking and watching these hopefully for some good matches. I've got 2 like two months of Smackdown clogged up on Sky+ now and I caught up on some of them over the weekend and the multi-man tags on there were honestly better than anything bar probably Sheamus/Cesaro on this PPV and probably most PPVs this year. Opener was alright. Remember how Cody & Dustin were like the best thing around less than a year ago. Now look at them. Sheamus/Cesaro was easily MOTN and very good by the end. I'm still waiting for them two to have THAT match though. Their PPV matches have all been kinda spotty (not in a bad way) and modern WWE style which limits these two a bit when a less WWE formulaic match could be way better. Very good match though. This is the point where I usually look to Mike's review to see what came next. I have no idea. Something did I guess. Miz/Dolph was terrible and both of them should be on the verge of rage quitting after they got buried so bad with the commentary nonsense refusing to call the match. I have no idea who the "hottest act in the music industry" is right now which makes me feel pretty good that I'm moving closer to living inside a tomb rather than under a rock. I'm also pretty sure WWE LIED. Cringe worthy bad. Mike is spot on with the old guys at a college party thing. Cole told JBL to take a selfie with the music guys to prove he's cool to the kids and I swear to god if I was watching this with anyone my age I would have just walked out the house and kept walking until I was far enough away from the existence of anyone who ever knew me before. Miz went pretty ham on the trunk pulling hnnnnnnnnnnng. I really wanted to love the Ambrose return but the stupidity of the setup kept getting in the way. That's the type of setup you use in a parody segment that's mocking pro wrestling. Was Ambrose just in a cab that happened to be real close to the arena watching the WWE network? It's so easy to set that segment up properly too. Have Seth do his open challenge and then Hunter says he's come up with a bunch of top guys to face Seth in a Gauntlet and he keeps on sending out the geek squad until Sin Cara comes out and OMG IT'S AMBROSE UNDER THE MASK. Ambrose is great though for sure. The setup for that dive in the gif annoyed me more than I wish it did too. Orton/Jericho was an absolutely nothing match. All I remember bar the finish was JBL looking proper pissed that his drink got knocked over. Oh right I forgot Henry/Rusev. Yeah both were good but the match was pretty flat. Divas match wasn't bad. It was better than Orton/Jericho not bad actually. Nikki Bella actually looked the best of the 3. That bump on the floor looked proper nasty. That reminds how much I hated the camera cutting away from Rollins right as he took a back drop on the concrete. I'm sure he was chuffed with that move. 

Brock/Cena was decent but no best. This should have been really strong on story after Summerslam but it was pretty weak on story tbh and the action didn't counter it at all either. I'm not sure how the early AA kick outs are supposed to mean anything when they're all the punishment Brock takes and Cena doesn't win with the first one even much later in matches where he gets a lot more prior offence in. Cena was largely the same old Cena. There wasn't a new darker Cena or Cena with a much different strategy than usual. Structurally it was way too choppy. No finish really hurt the match because it was a match stuck in second gear which suffered a lot from not reaching that higher gear. I know I said before I just accept the booking will be crap but the booking here just annoyed me so much still. I knew the Summerslam finish would mean nothing in the long run but I didn't expect it to be undone this quickly. Brock looked like just another heel champion geek at the end of this. They fucking ended asking if Cena had Brock beat. I guess it sets up a 3rd match next month so in that sense it worked but doesn't make it not a shitty finish. The Rollins interference was just odd given how hot Rollins/Ambrose is. Really Ambrose should have stopped him not Cena seeing as that's like the actual story they're telling. Rollins cashing in would have been really stupid and it says everything when I was buying it happening because of just that. In theory this should setup Cena/Rollins next month but it won't so it's just a finish to prevent an actual finish because they need to get another match out of this pairing. I mean even if they wanted a non finish then why not have one of Brock or Cena get DQ'd for going HAM on the other. Cena doing that plays in to the story of Cena having to go to a darker place to even survive Brock and then actually sets up HIAC. *


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

Those last couple sentences, Seabs. You're asking for too much logic.


----------



## Rap God (Mar 12, 2014)

Seabs said:


> * It's so easy to set that segment up properly too. Have Seth do his open challenge and then Hunter says he's come up with a bunch of top guys to face Seth in a Gauntlet and he keeps on sending out the geek squad until Sin Cara comes out and OMG IT'S AMBROSE UNDER THE MASK.*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Like do a DDP(La Parka)/Savage type thing? Yeah, but they are not that creative.


----------



## King_Kool-Aid™ (Jul 3, 2007)

The Fab Four said:


> Like do a DDP(La Parka)/Savage type thing? Yeah, but they are not that creative.


you'd think it wouldn't be that hard for them with all those old storylines on the network at their disposal.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

King_Kool-Aid™;39883129 said:


> you'd think it wouldn't be that hard for them with all those old storylines on the network at their disposal.


You'd think between Vince and the writers, they could club together $9.99 wouldn't you. :side:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

They already did the phony Sin Cara angle.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Even better way to do it: blatantly steal the angle from Jericho/Malenko in WCW

Have Seth come out and set up a 6 man Battle Royal, winner gets to wrestle him. Kofi, Los Matadores, Big E, Swagger, and "Sin Cara" come out with Rollins doing guest commentary during the match. "Sin Cara" wins after a short 5 min match. Seth hops in the ring, the ref rings the bell to start, and just as Seth starts to charge at "Sin Cara", "Sin Cara" rips his mask off revealing himself to be Dean Ambrose. Dean shoots a double leg on Seth and starts tearing and beating on him, and off they go for their whole brawling segment/match.

How awesome would that have been?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> They already did the phony Sin Cara angle.



Everything in wrestling has already been done numerous times. It's all about adding small tweaks and updating.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Everyone would know that it's Dean Ambrose. It wouldn't have the same impact. What we got last night was great.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I still jumped and marked out last night as soon as that cab arrived.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Everyone would know that it's Dean Ambrose. It wouldn't have the same impact. What we got last night was great.



How, exactly, would they know? They could go to pretty decent lengths to protect his identity, shaving, fake tattoo, etc. It could easily be done, a 5 minute match wouldn't give them enough time to figure out how different Deans work is from Hunico. Shit he could just get knocked under the bottom ropes right at the start and lay on the ground next to the ring selling for the entire 5 minutes, then pop up when 1 guy is left, clothesline him over the top, and go from there.

The point is it wouldn't be very difficult. What they did last night worked, I got excited to see Ambrose, but they could have done better for sure.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Dean didn't even pay his cab fare when the guy got him there at just the right time. What a cheap prick.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

When Ambrose was being carted off by security, I immediately thought of Stone Cold.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Usos/Rhodes - ***
Cesaro/Sheamus - ***1/4
Ziggler/Miz - *3/4
Henry/Rusev - *
Jericho/Orton - ***
Divas Triple Threat - **1/2
Cena/Lesnar - ***1/2

Decent show. Didn't mind the booking for the main event match. Leaves alot of questions unanswered and sets up nicely for HIAC.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

So will they just ignore the fact that Rollins effectively 'attacked' Lesnar then?

I know there is Ambrose/Rollins and now Cena probably, but at least have Heyman call The Authority out or something.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> When Ambrose was being carted off by security, I immediately thought of Stone Cold.



Man so did I. Specifically the night Austin attacked Vince in the ring (I BELIEVE it was the Zamboni deal but I could be wrong) and Austin has this "Bad S.O.B." Look on his face with his hands behind his back while the cops are cuffing him and JR is screaming "STEVE AUSTIN IS GOING DIRECTLY TO JAIL! AND HE DOESNT GIVE A DAMN!!!" I got the same vibe from Ambrose last night. It was really refreshing, to see a baby face with that kind of edge again. Man oh man do I wish we had JR on commentary to call the action for Dean Ambrose, Cole just doesn't get properly excited when shit like that goes down. Cole is like the Joe Buck of wrestling commentators.

Anyone else also get happy when they saw "boo's" just reigning down on Rollins when he was in the ring? When he turned, I thought it was the wrong choice. I thought Reigns should be the one to turn heel and that Rollins should stay face because his ring work is just too exciting for him to be effective as a heel. Well, he's compensated by subtlety toning down the flashy stuff, although he could do with a bit more toning down IMO, and man is he just MONEY as a self righteous prick type heel. He has this expression of total disdain that makes any sane man want to knock his lights out, and he also isn't scared to beg off for the faces which is a quality any good heel needs. As JBL said in that AWESOME "How to be a heel" column, heels need to have absolutely zero redeeming qualities about them. They need to be cowards, they need to cheat, they need to be demonstrably worse as wrestlers than the baby face and they can only get bye by cutting corners. I get what they are doing with Brock, making him out to be this unstoppable force so that when Reigns (or someone else) finally beats him, it means something. But I also think they could do with having Heyman interfere more, have Brock show A LITTLE fear from time to time, and to also bail out of the ring for a powder every once in a while when things arent going his way.

I'm not saying they should turn Brock into a pussy. I'm just saying if the WWE wants to make sure whatever face goes up against him gets cheered, they need to take away some of Brock's redeeming qualities. A guy like Brock, by appearance alone, doesn't need to cheat. So if he DOES cheat from time to time, man will it piss people off because then he's just totally stacking the deck.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

If I could pick two matches to take place in the cell out of everyone on the entire roster Ambrose-Rollins and Brock-Cena are the two I'd go for so assuming they go with that HIAC will be :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cole did say there would be 1 cell match at HIAC. At this point, it looks like Brock/Cena.

I want this feud to end now tbh, despite the finish at NOC. Let Brock move on. If we get another match, then just let Brock win decisively and end it there if needs be.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Brock said:


> Cole did say there would be 1 cell match at HIAC. At this point, it looks like Brock/Cena.
> 
> I want this feud to end now tbh, despite the finish at NOC. Let Brock move on. If we get another match, then just let Brock win decisively and end it there if needs be.


Did he not say at least one? If it was going to be another regular match I would agree but I think these two could have a great, great match inside the cell.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ryan193 said:


> Did he not say at least one? If it was going to be another regular match I would agree but I think these two could have a great, great match inside the cell.


Did he? In that case they could do both then.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Brock said:


> Did he? In that case they could do both then.


I think so, not 100% sure though. 

It would be typical WWE if they didn't, for the past 5/6 years they've had this PPV and have completely ruined the cell match by having matches that dont justify it and now they have two that do and they might only do one :lol


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

http://www.wwe.com/videos/john-cena...-world-heavyweight-championship-wwec-26673323

Cena is pretty much admitting he "lost" here (he brushes off the DQ win as nothing). Safe to say Cena vs Brock is no more. Now let Brock take HIAC off and give us Rollins/Ambrose as main event then Orton vs Brock for SVS! :mark:


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Add me in with the crowd of not being impressed with NoC - I missed the first two matches, so that probably colored my view from "meh" to "shit." 

For Miz/Ziggler, the funny thing for me is that, with years of practice watching WCW in my youth, I'm very adept at blocking out bad commentary. Like, I just tunnel through it, stay focused on the match and then "WTF is that?! These two chumps get over on Sandow!?!" Too much. Just Pildrive the poor SOB and put him out of his misery. Also, pretty sure Miz pulled Ziggler's tights so hard that Dolph's balls fell out on that school boy. Jericho/Orton perfectly fit it's build as thrown together and uninspired. Jericho and his T-Rex arms DROPPING DEM BOMBS and the Flying Nothing into RKO were great for all the wrong reasons - Jericho, generally, on the top rope has become a running joke for me - like an alternate reality where up is down and Jericho jumping off the top rope is actually him falling deeper in the "lost a step" category. Rusev/Henry was ok, solid but not really good. Henry is working so slow and yet, he's not able to really display his power on Rusev, and so whatever entertainment value was there had to be obtained via "Hate Russia/Love USA" and I'm running out of Putin jokes. Walked out during part of the women's match, which was ok when I got back.

Cena/Lesnar almost saved the show. A lot of the gripes I've heard seem baseless - At some point, angles just need to be reasonable, and not perfect. "Why didn't Rollins wait to cash-in after the match?" Well, by the looks of it, Lesnar was about to lose, which sets up two reasonable ends: 

1) The Authority would rather see the belt on Rollins than Cena 
2) Lesnar, at that moment, was easier pickings than Cena

But I digress, the finish *was* screwy, and for me, the four AA's amounted to overkill and sloppy storytelling. Still though, that wild back elbow had me :mark: and I do like the "prizefight" feel of their chemistry, which saw them exchanging some nice blows and having a go of it. ****3/4* for it, and MOTN from what I saw.

Ambrose was fun, Cena/Brock very good, and I need to check out Cesaro/Sheamus. All-in-all, lackluster. Hopefully it sets up better a Raw for the next month.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

All the complex angles yet they could have simply done Ambrose jumping from the crowd as Seth is about to cash in and ended with Ambrose beating the shit out of Rollins.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Bret Hart vs Terry Funk (Wrestlefest 09.11.1997)*

x26fcw0

*By request


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Night Of Champions ratings:

Usos/Dusts: ***1/4
Sheamus/Cesaro: ***3/4
Ziggler/Miz: **
Rollins/Reigns: AMBROSE :mark: :mark: (oh yes, the match itself I gave an obvious DUD - THE BELL ACTUALLY RUNG SO I'M COUNTING IT IN :side
Henry/Rusev: **
Orton/Jericho: ***
Paige/AJ/Nikki: *3/4
Lesnar/Cena: ***3/4

Some folks were saying that this was the best non-Big 4 PPV of the Year so far. WRONG. All three NXT shows shit all over it.... wait, maybe you meant not counting NXT. STILL WRONG. Elimination Chamber, with Shield/Wyatts, the Chamber match, Big E/Swagger & the most hilarious performance in modern history by Batista all combined > NOC, easily. NOC was, I guess, solid in terms of wrestling quality. But, with the exception of the Dusts winning the Tag Titles, my God did Creative fuck up the booking.

Two great matches to talk of are Sheamus/Cesaro, which I liked less than Payback due to its slower and more wrestling, less FIGHT~ approach but that finishing stretch was AWESOME, despite Sheamus retaining which is so fucking bleh; and Lesnar/Cena, which storytelling-wise truly delievered as a much more evened fight than SummerSlam, despite the GODAWFUL ending which kept me from giving it the ****. Actually, Cena was booked a little too strong for my likings and that also felt sour for me, regardless of wheater or not I should've expected it. And you also had the kinda spotty but still entertaining and in parts good in storytelling opener, w/the Dusts finally winning the titles; and of course, AMBROSE IS FINALLY BACK BIATCHES. Boy, he left for a month but you might've as well called it a year, because no Ambrose in the program made things duller than forever. AMBROSE/ROLLINS HIAC, possibly Main Event of the show if Lesnar skips it. I'm drooling over it now. Only problem was how stupid Ambrose's return was setup. So Ambrose was watching the show and heard Rollins call out anyone... and in a matter of, like, A MINUTE, he was already there in a cab? LOL. But, AMBROSE THO.

Rest of the PPV though? Mehland. Ziggler/Miz was absolutely - and I don't like using that term but fuck it - BURIED by the shenanigans and commentary. You mean to tell me than Sandow is actually below the level of two fucking country singers whose appearance had absolutely nothing to do w/the show?! fpalm, WWE. Plus, why bother w/giving Ziggler the title if you're gonna hot potato it back to Miz? Makes no sense. Wrestling itself was fine but whatever. Henry/Rusev was a COLOSSAL (pun intended) dissapointment. I like that they book Rusev overly strong... but at the expense of Mark fucking Henry of all people? Plus, the match itself was just... dull. It was the stereotype of what Mark Henry matches are for many outsider audiences - slow, slow, slow, and NOT the good type of methodical. Storytelling-wise it was fine I guess, but the pacing was so snailish I just wanted to move on. And this was the 2nd most anticipated match of the PPV for me, so see what you have here. Orton/Jericho was surprisingly good. I say this because I didn't give two shits about it on the buildup, and I still almost didn't. It was about as good as it could've possibly been I guess. But boy are you guys/girls right: Jericho has lost quite a lot of steps. And the Divas Triple Threat was, again, as good as it could've possibly been. Thank God Nikki didn't win it. But, just like Miz and Ziggler... why give the title back to AJ? What's the point if you gave it to Paige a mere month ago?! WHY YOU SO CONFUSING, WWE?!!

So yeah, this was kinda of an OK PPV, and certainly a biblical improvement over last year's EPIC FAIL of a NOC show, but Elimination Chamber has it easily beat as the best non-Big 4 PPV of the year, since despite solid wrestling, the booking was utter shit all night long. That being said, I'm looking forward to HIAC quite a bit now. If just for AMBROSE/ROLLINS and possibly Lesnar/Cena, BOTH inside HIAC :mark::mark::mark:.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just trying to get some dates to a few of Eddie Guerrero's 'best' promo's. Having not watched much during 2005, just bits a pieces, need some help.  Have these so far:

WCW Nitro August 17, 1998 - Eddy Guerrero Shoots On Eric Bischoff & Poor Treatment of Young Talent
WWE Smackdown 2005-05-12 - Eddie Guerrero Heel Turn Promo
WWE Smackdown 2005-05-19 - Eddie Guerrero 2nd Heel Turn Promo
Promo where Eddie holds Rey Mysterio's mask 1 week after attacking him? (Need the date of this, think it was just before Judgment Day?)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> When Ambrose was being carted off by security, I immediately thought of Stone Cold.





Brock said:


> Just trying to get some dates to a few of Eddie Guerrero's 'best' promo's. Having not watched much during 2005, just bits a pieces, need some help.  Have these so far:
> 
> WCW Nitro August 17, 1998 - Eddy Guerrero Shoots On Eric Bischoff & Poor Treatment of Young Talent
> WWE Smackdown 2005-05-12 - Eddie Guerrero Heel Turn Promo
> ...


I read your PM and I was trying to come up with some dates of ones I remember. Eddie really isn't a guy like Flair, Foley, or Austin who would cut an unbelievable promo. Eddie was really good, great even, and he never seemed lost or anything, but he doesn't have like a catalog of "Classic" promos like a Dusty Rhodes or Roddy Piper would.

I do remember a few specifically though, although you listed 4 of them already hahaha, the one he cuts on Brock leading up to NWO was damn good, and this one is one of my all time favorites from Eddie, it's where he holds up Rey's mask and fully turns:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GPV-rRdCAv0


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks for that mate, yeah just needed a few essentials like. What is the date of that 'Mask' promo?


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

*WWE NIGHT OF CHAMPIONS 2014*

*WWE Tag Team Championship*
The Usos (c) vs Goldust & Stardust **1/2

*WWE United States Championship*
Sheamus (c) vs Cesaro ***1/4

*WWE Intercontinental Championship*
Dolph Ziggler (c) vs The Miz 3/4*

Mark Henry vs Rusev *

Chris Jericho vs Randy Orton **

*WWE Diva's Championship*
Paige (c) vs AJ Lee vs Nikki Bella *1/2

*WWE World Heavyweight Championship*
Brock Lesnar (c) vs John Cena **3/4

*Overall Grade: 3.5*


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Brock said:


> When Ambrose was being carted off by security, I immediately thought of Stone Cold.


He is legit the modern day Austin. He's the closest thing to Austin we've had since, well, Austin.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Man so did I. Specifically the night Austin attacked Vince in the ring (I BELIEVE it was the Zamboni deal but I could be wrong) and Austin has this "Bad S.O.B." Look on his face with his hands behind his back while the cops are cuffing him and JR is screaming "STEVE AUSTIN IS GOING DIRECTLY TO JAIL! AND HE DOESNT GIVE A DAMN!!!" I got the same vibe from Ambrose last night. It was really refreshing, to see a baby face with that kind of edge again. Man oh man do I wish we had JR on commentary to call the action for Dean Ambrose, Cole just doesn't get properly excited when shit like that goes down. Cole is like the Joe Buck of wrestling commentators.
> 
> Anyone else also get happy when they saw "boo's" just reigning down on Rollins when he was in the ring? When he turned, I thought it was the wrong choice. I thought Reigns should be the one to turn heel and that Rollins should stay face because his ring work is just too exciting for him to be effective as a heel. Well, he's compensated by subtlety toning down the flashy stuff, although he could do with a bit more toning down IMO, and man is he just MONEY as a self righteous prick type heel. He has this expression of total disdain that makes any sane man want to knock his lights out, and he also isn't scared to beg off for the faces which is a quality any good heel needs. As JBL said in that AWESOME "How to be a heel" column, heels need to have absolutely zero redeeming qualities about them. They need to be cowards, they need to cheat, they need to be demonstrably worse as wrestlers than the baby face and they can only get bye by cutting corners. I get what they are doing with Brock, making him out to be this unstoppable force so that when Reigns (or someone else) finally beats him, it means something. But I also think they could do with having Heyman interfere more, have Brock show A LITTLE fear from time to time, and to also bail out of the ring for a powder every once in a while when things arent going his way.
> 
> I'm not saying they should turn Brock into a pussy. I'm just saying if the WWE wants to make sure whatever face goes up against him gets cheered, they need to take away some of Brock's redeeming qualities. A guy like Brock, by appearance alone, doesn't need to cheat. So if he DOES cheat from time to time, man will it piss people off because then he's just totally stacking the deck.


To add small details about Rollins' effectiveness as an entitled, selfish prick, Seth Rollins naturally has a very annoying voice and has that obnoxious fake laugh, so even when the guy gets on the stick, you want to cave his head in not necessarily by his material, but that delivery. Add in the half dyed hair (which I always thought looked heel) and the vicarious hatred people have in their own jobs for the suck up chosen one by the corporate higher ups who don't have to work as hard alongside what you mentioned, and yeah it works surprisingly well. I would also add that to further compensate for the high spots (which I agree need to be cut down) and flash is that if one recalls, the Shield had a pretty damn good and funny trash talking element when they worked heel (Roman with his puns and Seth shouting instructions like "you gotta go for the beard/dont forget about the eye") that Seth can translate in his work to help cement himself as heel. Seth's done far better than expected in my estimation. 

If I may ask you good folks of the thread to get a consensus, did you feel that Brock was overly weakened by Cena's somewhat overkill offense, or did you find that Lesnar getting up and ultimately standing tall after taking four AA's, a prolonged STF and a curb stomp to have a high resistance that ADDED to Lesnar kind of like how Jason Vorheese would get up from damn near anything the next intstallment or the end of the movie and look like an indestructible force?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Edit.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Everyone would know that it's Dean Ambrose. It wouldn't have the same impact. What we got last night was great.


*The whole point is everyone bar the cocky heel who likes an idiot can work it out...*


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I was hoping Sami Zayn would see Steen's tweet telling him to get out there have an impromptu match. :side:

Almost done with Night of Champions '08. It was extremely bland.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brye said:


> I was hoping Sami Zayn would see Steen's tweet telling him to get out there have an impromptu match. :side:
> 
> Almost done with Night of Champions '08. It was extremely bland.


What was HHH/Cena like? Keep meaning to watch that match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Brock said:


> What was HHH/Cena like? Keep meaning to watch that match.


It's actually pretty good. I'd definitely give it a watch. Sort of similar to the 2009 one, if you've seen that.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Nope. I still havn't seen any HHH/Cena match lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Not even WM 22? Dude, you're missing out there.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Nope. Keep meaning to. Guess ill have to start soon, starting with WM. Only thought they had two matches, was the other one(s) like?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You're not really missing out that much. They don't do anything special.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Think tonight's Raw will answer a lot of questions about the direction of storylines. Hoping Rusev gets into something with Sheamus. The matches would be amazing.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Anyone heard rumors on if Ambrose and Rollins will get the Cell for the next PPV? I certainly hope they do it is the only feud worthy of having that match right now.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> You're not really missing out that much. They don't do anything special.


I've only seen WM 22 but I concur as far as that match goes. I'd give it around ***, nothing special at all, other than the crowd fully turning on Cena which is a little funny and keeps things interesting.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Brock said:


> Nope. I still havn't seen any HHH/Cena match lol.


None are that special, and I'm a huge fanboy for HHH. Their best match was at NOC 2008(year?) at like a *** 3/4 if I recall.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Ad Infinitum said:


> Anyone heard rumors on if Ambrose and Rollins will get the Cell for the next PPV? I certainly hope they do it is the only feud worthy of having that match right now.


I really hope it does. Makes total sense and hopefully it stops Kane from interfering for once.

Also, marked out for Captain doing the GERMAN to Drew Brees.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Brye said:


> I really hope it does. Makes total sense and hopefully it stops Kane from interfering for once.
> 
> Also, marked out for Captain doing the GERMAN to Drew Brees.


I legitimately yelled out "GERMAN!" when I saw that (I have RedZone).

If they do have a match in HIAC will that be the close of their feud? if not, how much longer can/will it run? From a booking perspective a HIAC match should seal the knot most of the time.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rollins and Ambrose can go on for far longer. They need to be on separate teams at Survivor Series. Then at TLC, we need a match for the briefcase. And then at Royal Rumble, they should be entrants #1 and 2 and go all the way to the end. I guess you can also have them both in the Elimination Chamber. These two can fight forever and I'll be satisfied.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Brock absolutely needs to show no cowardice or need of assistance, until at least his opponent for WM (or whenever he drops the title) is known. And I absolutely love proper heels, but Brock isn't a really a heel right now - he's a conqueror - special attraction as King Kong of WWE. 



Rah said:


> All the complex angles yet they could have simply done Ambrose jumping from the crowd as Seth is about to cash in and ended with Ambrose beating the shit out of Rollins.





Brye said:


> Think tonight's Raw will answer a lot of questions about the direction of storylines.


Yao Ming?


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

JustJoel said:


> _*Brock absolutely needs to show no cowardice or need of assistance*_, *until at least his opponent for WM (or whenever he drops the title) is known.* And I absolutely love proper heels, but Brock isn't a really a heel right now - he's a conqueror - special attraction as King Kong of WWE.


THIS. That was my only problem with his Punk match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Holy guacamole, is anybody more over than Ambrose?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

JustJoel said:


> Brock absolutely needs to show no cowardice or need of assistance, until at least his opponent for WM (or whenever he drops the title) is known. And I absolutely love proper heels, but Brock isn't a really a heel right now - he's a conqueror - special attraction as King Kong of WWE.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Totally disagree but to each his own. I hate shades of grey booking, guys need to either be heels or baby faces. 

Plus, Brock vs Punk, were Brock showed a little vulnerability and had Heyman interfering, was infinitely more exciting and entertaining than Brock just dominating Cena. Even Vader, the greatest monster heel of them all, gave plenty to the baby faces and had Harley cheating for him. No one is clamoring to throw down money to see Brock get beat, If anything everyone is loving him dominating. Either turn his ass face, or make him so despicable that people are dying to pay to see him get beat. Either way it doesn't change anything, if he's face he needs to appear vulnerable so people can relate, if he's a heel he can't keep chewing faces up and spitting them out without cheating or doing anything underhanded. Brock is all grey right now, and it genuinely bugs me because I love that guy so much.

I suppose I'm just old fashioned in that regard.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Totally disagree but to each his own. I hate shades of grey booking, guys need to either be heels or baby faces.
> 
> Plus, Brock vs Punk, were Brock showed a little vulnerability and had Heyman interfering, was infinitely more exciting and entertaining than Brock just dominating Cena. Even Vader, the greatest monster heel of them all, gave plenty to the baby faces and had Harley cheating for him. No one is clamoring to throw down money to see Brock get beat, If anything everyone is loving him dominating. Either turn his ass face, or make him so despicable that people are dying to pay to see him get beat. Either way it doesn't change anything, if he's face he needs to appear vulnerable so people can relate, if he's a heel he can't keep chewing faces up and spitting them out without cheating or doing anything underhanded. Brock is all grey right now, and it genuinely bugs me because I love that guy so much.
> 
> I suppose I'm just old fashioned in that regard.


In this case, I agree with you that we need those pockets of moments where Brock shows vulnerability. I think the Punk match and Rock/Brock are great examples of how to book Brock as a heel that isn't doing extended squash matches. I don't think Brock is in that shades of grey area. He's just feuding with one of the shittiest faces in WWE history. Give him someone the crowd cares about and Brock will get massive heat.

With that said, I don't think wrestling needs to have that strict division between faces and heels. It just doesn't work anymore because it's an outdated concept. Cheating is not seen as a sinister thing anymore. The standards of wrestling have changed and now a character like Sheamus who fights cleanly but doesn't have a likable vibe makes for a better heel than someone who cheats all the time and insults the crowd. And that's not a bad thing. The fans are never wrong. Wrestling just needs to adjust accordingly.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

This deserves a double post. What a difference a commentary team that actually calls the match can make. Michael Cole was actually pretty good there. Great match. Ziggler in particular has been throwing some really nice clotheslines lately. And his selling. Anyone that ever says that Dolph is just a "bumper" might as well never watch wrestling again. Great feud that has made the IC title feel important.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Match was really good but I don't think that the IC title feels important at all. Way too much comedy in the feud (although Sandow is hilarious).

I agree with you on the commentary.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Giving the match ****... might be going a bit overboard. ***1/2 for the actual match, rest goes to Sandow for everything he did.

Still in the last month, Ziggler gave Miz two of the best matches of his career. Big credit to Ziggler for that, although Miz does deserve some credit as well for his character work.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

***1/4 for Miz-Ziggler, I think they've made the IC title relevant, not quite at the level it should be but it's getting there.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Can they quit these weekly six-man tags? They should have cut the weekly match when The Shield broke up. They were the reason six-man tags were so good.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Eh I still love the six man tag format. For whatever reason, I can't think of any bad matches in such a format. Perhaps Wyatts vs. Cena/Henry/Show. But while the six man tag is overused, it works well in bringing out the strengths in wrestlers while hiding some of their negatives.


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

Brye said:


> I really hope it does. Makes total sense and *hopefully it stops Kane from interfering for once.*


Why can't he just rip the door off the cell?


----------



## DMC6162 (Aug 27, 2011)

Rose/Bunny vs. Slater Gator: ****1/2


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

DMC6162 said:


> Rose/Bunny vs. Slater Gator: ****1/2


Meh, I had at it at ****1/4.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao Randy Orton's ear infection taunt.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Man, Ziggler/Miz was pretty good. ***1/2 or so. I really liked it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Was Heyman on Raw?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

No, but David Blaine was.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Dammit. I was hoping he would address NOC finish, esp saying something about Brock effectively kicking out before Rollins walloped Cena, plus possibly calling out The Authority/Rollins for his actions.

Not that anything will come of that of course, Cena is still the target it seems next for Brock.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Owen Hart vs Ken Shamrock (Dungeon Match) (Fully Loaded 1998)*


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Totally disagree but to each his own. I hate shades of grey booking, guys need to either be heels or baby faces.
> 
> Plus, Brock vs Punk, were Brock showed a little vulnerability and had Heyman interfering, was infinitely more exciting and entertaining than Brock just dominating Cena. Even Vader, the greatest monster heel of them all, gave plenty to the baby faces and had Harley cheating for him. No one is clamoring to throw down money to see Brock get beat, If anything everyone is loving him dominating. Either turn his ass face, or make him so despicable that people are dying to pay to see him get beat. Either way it doesn't change anything, if he's face he needs to appear vulnerable so people can relate, if he's a heel he can't keep chewing faces up and spitting them out without cheating or doing anything underhanded. Brock is all grey right now, and it genuinely bugs me because I love that guy so much.
> 
> I suppose I'm just old fashioned in that regard.


Perhaps you didn't see that part that said "I love proper heels" or "at least until WM" - either way, Brock is above the dichotomy right now - you pay to see Brock, period. The more he is an unstoppable force, the bigger the rub when he's taken down, and the bigger deal it is when he backs off and shows fear to his eventual True Challenger. André had it in spades - you simultaneous fear and stand in awe of monsters. They have redeeming qualities that are inherent: Size, speed, power, athleticism, etc. 

He can bully guys all he wants, but cowardice isn't in the playbook. Also, vulnerability |= cowardice - I don't want Brock running from a fight, but I do want him surprised at certain moments. Remember Big Show's punch from their match at RR? When he hit that, Brock looked like someone made the Statue of Liberty disappear. It gave an opening for Show, and the possibility to the audience. Punk's situation was different because the build was so focused on Punk and Heyman, but it would ruin Brock to have Paul jumping on the apron every ppv. Save it for the RTWM. Hell, even Heyman should have a healthy fear of Brock - especially when he's mad. That's why in JBL's heel piece, or generally when you read people who know their shit, they use the qualifiers "usually" or "generally" getting heat is easier as a coward. Because there exists, for rare performers and in limited instances, a time where cowardice isn't the best way forward. Brock is that unusual case, for now.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Literally scoured the web and watched that earlier today on a kind of fuzzy dailymotion vid. Should have waited 24 hours. Awesome five minutes and probably one of the most unique matches the company will ever have. All of the wall shots were brutal.

Lawler's Addams Family line cracked me up.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brock said:


> *Owen Hart vs Ken Shamrock (Dungeon Match) (Fully Loaded 1998)*


Well damn, Owen and Shamrock has a better match in a fecking BASEMENT than most guys do in their entire careers.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Miz/Ziggler was great (IC Title hot potatoing is stupid as fuck, but at least Ziggler's champion again); AMBROSE everywhere was :mark:; skipped mostly everything else although I saw chops and bits of the 6-Man Tag and it seemed solid. Didn't care about anything else really on Raw. 

Although I'll say this - if they don't do an Ambrose/Rollins HIAC match ONE-ON-FUCKING-ONE as it should be, and instead just decide to throw Cena into the mix and make it some random 3-on-2 Handicap HIAC w/Kane and Orton in the mix as well, I will flip out. Goddammit, WWE. Just... Godfuckingdammit. If you're so desperate having Cena involved in the hottest feud atm just because LOLCena, why not have Cena wrestle Kane and Orton inside the Cell on the midcard and, say, he gets Rollins if he beats them? That is, AFTER Rollins gets beat by Ambrose. It also allows the WWE to setup Lesnar/Orton for SVS: Orton escapes the Cell, says the loss was all Kane's fault, and HHH gives him a title shot because yes. Ambrose and Cena lead a team at SVS against Rollins' team, and Lesnar/Orton is the Main Event. HOW HARD CAN THAT BE, CREATIVE MONKEYS?!

Also, apparenly Vince McMahon doesn't like Sami Zayn. _*#SaveUs_HHH*_


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

JustJoel said:


> Perhaps you didn't see that part that said "I love proper heels" or "at least until WM" - either way, Brock is above the dichotomy right now - you pay to see Brock, period. The more he is an unstoppable force, the bigger the rub when he's taken down, and the bigger deal it is when he backs off and shows fear to his eventual True Challenger. André had it in spades - you simultaneous fear and stand in awe of monsters. They have redeeming qualities that are inherent: Size, speed, power, athleticism, etc.
> 
> He can bully guys all he wants, but cowardice isn't in the playbook. Also, vulnerability |= cowardice - I don't want Brock running from a fight, but I do want him surprised at certain moments. Remember Big Show's punch from their match at RR? When he hit that, Brock looked like someone made the Statue of Liberty disappear. It gave an opening for Show, and the possibility to the audience. Punk's situation was different because the build was so focused on Punk and Heyman, but it would ruin Brock to have Paul jumping on the apron every ppv. Save it for the RTWM. Hell, even Heyman should have a healthy fear of Brock - especially when he's mad. That's why in JBL's heel piece, or generally when you read people who know their shit, they use the qualifiers "usually" or "generally" getting heat is easier as a coward. Because there exists, for rare performers and in limited instances, a time where cowardice isn't the best way forward. Brock is that unusual case, for now.



You said "Brock is above that dichotomy for now-people pay to see Brock, period". That's the point I was making, people really aren't paying to see Brock these days. He doesn't boost ratings, he hasn't increased ticket sales, he isn't selling more ppvs, and he isn't getting more people to subscribe to the Network. I'm never one to bring up the revenue a wrestler brings in as judgement on their ability, but I just firmly believe WWE allowing Brock to inhabit this in between area right now is doing no one any favors. Having Brock not really be hated but not really be liked either is what's holding him back.

Just ask yourself, how much heat would it be if Brock had put his feet on the ropes when he pinned Taker? That's the kinda stuff I think WWE doesn't do nearly enough anymore.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What was the date of that 'Eddie/Rey mask' promo?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Nobody except for Daniel Bryan really affects all those "drawing" aspects anymore, and even his individual effect is moderate. I really like the idea of Lesnar doing more heelish tactics "just because". I don't think though that Brock's character is in the wrong place. Once again, the reason that there isn't that high level of greatheat that we expected is because Brock is feuding with a shit babyface. Give him someone else and things will change. The Joe/Punk ring rope idea needs to be saved for a special moment against a young star. Ceaaro perhaps in a perfect world, but lolwtf have they done?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Last night's Raw was one of the better ones coming out of Summerslam recently, but it was still brought down by the usual third hour filler because WWE can't fill three hours. Bray fucking Wyatt wasn't even on the show last night, which is a travesty.

But on the other end, Dean Ambrose is shining like the star he is and is on the path to becoming this era's Austin. Reigns' absence is going to be huge for Ambrose.

Ziggler/Miz: ***1/4


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Think that is the promo i need the date for. 

EDIT: Seems its the 12th May 2005 heel turn one. Thought theer was another similar to this.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Nobody except for Daniel Bryan really affects all those "drawing" aspects anymore, and even his individual effect is moderate. I really like the idea of Lesnar doing more heelish tactics "just because". I don't think though that Brock's character is in the wrong place. Once again, the reason that there isn't that high level of greatheat that we expected is because Brock is feuding with a shit babyface. Give him someone else and things will change. The Joe/Punk ring rope idea needs to be saved for a special moment against a young star. Ceaaro perhaps in a perfect world, but lolwtf have they done?


I actually wasn't thinking of Punk/Joe III when I brought up Brock putting his feet on the ropes for Taker. I just thought it would have fit, Taker kicked out of 2 F-5's, so after Brock hit the 3rd one if he had put his foot on the ropes for leverage when he pinned Taker fans would have been a lot more angry and irate at Brock, instead of just sitting in stunned in silence. That was actually my "dream booking" way of turning Cena heel. For WM 30 I thought Cena should face Taker and put his feet on the ropes to end the Streak. People would have filled the ring with garbage, it would have been tremendous.

Granted, if Brock wrestled Bryan or Ambrose right now, yea he would get heat and Bryan/Dean would have the entire crowd behind them. The problem is, WWE doesn't seem to want to put Bryan or Dean in that spot, regardless of how much they deserve it. They want to put Reigns in that spot, and unless he grows by leaps and bounds by WM 31, people are gonna side with Brock and it'll all blow up in WWE's face. I'd prefer that not to happen because I really like Roman, but man are they ever ...hing it with him. It's blatantly obvious to anyone that watches that Dean and Bryan are far and away the most ready and beloved baby faces. Why not let Roman develop in the mid card for another year and give Dean and Bryan the chance to run on top?

I can't wait for Bryan to come back, he has been sorely, sorely missed by me. Bryan/Brock, Bryan/Rollins, Bryan/Cesaro...the options are endless.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Was bored and current wrestling just doesn't interest me much any more, so I stuck in Undertaker's Streak Bluray (HE'S STILL UNDEFEATED TO ME DAMMIT!!! ) and watched... WM 14 match with Kane. Good GOD this is still a fucking tremendous brawl. Undertaker was just as good back then as he is now at throwing punches :mark:. Kane looked pretty fucking unstoppable, and :mark: at Undertaker diving over the ropes only for Kane to side step and force him to crash through the announce table. The 3 Tombstones to finally beat Kane was so well done, especially during a time when big finish kick outs weren't the norm for a big PPV match.

Oh hey, new weekly update video on my BLOGS~! and a special announcement video too .


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> You said "Brock is above that dichotomy for now-people pay to see Brock, period". That's the point I was making, people really aren't paying to see Brock these days. *He doesn't boost ratings, he hasn't increased ticket sales, he isn't selling more ppvs, and he isn't getting more people to subscribe to the Network.*


Evidence? I think he does very well, considering WWE gave him lots of money (which is presumably at least partly based on how much he earns WWE). Who's bigger? Cena? I'm sure if WWE could get Rock back on a similar deal, they would. No one else is a bigger deal. The WWE is firmly banking on Lesnar to be the star attraction for the time being.



> I'm never one to bring up the revenue a wrestler brings in as judgement on their ability, but I just firmly believe WWE allowing Brock to inhabit this in between area right now is doing no one any favors. Having Brock not really be hated but not really be liked either is what's holding him back.


(Some)People do hate him - he made kids cry at Summerslam, and receives split reactions when he appears (and has Paul Heyman). What I'm saying you're not going to remove the cheers, because he has redeeming qualities - qualities that cannot be stripped and move you to react.

Put it this way: Why does cheating succeed in making people angry? Because people believe you couldn't win any other way, and are not as good as the title would suggest. A paper tiger, a phoney who's just full of hot air. This is absolutely why Brock must never cheat (until the end) - he's intended to be *better* than the title suggests: (former:lol) UFC Heavyweight Champion Brock Lesnar ("the real thing":lol). The articles about him being nasty to fans, not signing autographs, good. Be a dick, be a bully, but not a wuss. In that way, he is still a heel, but adjusted to reflect his wider appeal and individual talents.



> Just ask yourself, how much heat would it be if Brock had put his feet on the ropes when he pinned Taker? That's the kinda stuff I think WWE doesn't do nearly enough anymore.


Would be counter-productive and out of character. WWE can hardly promote a "Streak conqueroring, behemoth" or "unstoppable beast incarnate" if he doesn't, for a time, dominate. Besides, two heels - Dust Bros and Miz - used tights _less than 48 hours ago_ to cheat to win titles.

EDIT: Also, I saw the first two matches of NoC that I missed live - definitely changes my outlook on the show as a whole. Tag match was good, couple awkward moments (Goldust/Uso stereo dive), but entertaining ***. I think it was *Seabs* who said they still wanted to see Cesaro/Sheamus have _*that*_ match. I feel the same but also like I could watch as many as it takes. Really good stuff ***3/4, same as Cena/Brock but will still take the latter as MOTN.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Brock said:


> Think that is the promo i need the date for.
> 
> EDIT: Seems its the 12th May 2005 heel turn one. Thought theer was another similar to this.


Ugh. I miss Eddie. He could literally play any role to perfection. He could make people hate him, and then make people love him within a few seconds again. He was a special, special talent.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You want epic Eddie promos?






Only second to "AT JUDGMENT DAY... I'LL HAVE YOUR LIFE!!!" as my favorite Eddie Guerrero promo ever. God, I wish anyone BUT Eddie Guerrero had to be killed.


----------



## BorneAgain (Dec 24, 2005)

I knew someone was going to turn on Sting, but I didn't figure it would be the home video production staff.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Brock said:


> Think that is the promo i need the date for.
> 
> EDIT: Seems its the 12th May 2005 heel turn one. Thought theer was another similar to this.


:mark::bow:mark:

Eddie made that feud. Anyone else would have led it to be the shit it should have been.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

As a total package, I don't know if anyone's as good as Eddie. The man could do it all. Wrestle with the best of them, talk with the best of them, play a babyface with the best of them and play a heel with the best of them. Could get the crowd to love or hate him, and he always delivered in feuds/matches.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Eddie Guerrero was so good in that feud that I had no choice but to cheer for him. The premise of the feud might be the worst thing to ever occur in wrestling, but the mere fact that a man was able to get something redeemable out of the stupidest idea concocted in a human being's mind exemplifies why he might be the GOAT. I can really only think of three other guys that I would put at or above Eddie in terms of being a total package.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Who are they, out or curiosity?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Micker, the Funker, and the Flair-er. Other guys who are on the outside looking in are the Lawler, the Punker, and Austin.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Rah said:


> Who are they, out or curiosity?



I know you didn't ask me but I figured I'd answer anyway and then if you want I'd like to see who you put up there as the best ever.

For starters, it should be clear I'm talking US wrestling only. I haven't seen much stuff from Mexico at all, and for me personally it's hard to compare Japanese wrestlers with US wrestlers because the style and presentation is so different. For instance, it's just hard for me to compare Toshiaki Kawada with Steve Austin. Pro wrestling is pro wrestling, but in Japan there aren't promos and character isn't nearly as emphasized, in Japan the #1 thing is the story telling done in the ring.

So for US only, the best "total packages" ever in my book are Ric Flair, Terry Funk, Eddie Guerrero, and Steve Austin. Those 4 sit atop my own persona Mount ...hmore for their amazing ability to just do it all.

Having said that, there IS one guy who wrestled predominantly in Japan who I think rivals and perhaps exceeds those 4 in terms of being able to do it all, and that man coincidentally is actually an American: the Bad Man from Borger, Texas- Stan "the Lariat" Hansen. These past 6 months or so have been a total revelation to me, because just about 6 months ago is when I really started watching Stan Hansen and I've become completely enamored with him. He's just unbelievable, he is the definition of what a pro wrestler should be in my book.

So maybe I'll extend my personal "total package" Mount ...hmore to 5 guys: Flair, Funk, Eddie, Austin, and Stan Hansen. Not a bad list if I do say so myself 

Funnyfaces: I'd LOVE to include the Micker on my list, you know how much I straight up adore the guy. The ONLY thing that keeps him off the list is this: Mick, for all his greatness, was never able to make people truly despise him. Sure he was a heel early on as Cactus Jack in WCW and as Mankind in WWF, but it only lasted a short while and he never was able to garner that true "heel heat" IMO. All 5 of those other guys on my list could be completely hated or universally adored depending on how they wanted to work, Mick just couldn't get the hate. As he said himself in his documentary "I have kind eyes, people just always realized deep down I was a pretty good guy, and that I always went way above and beyond to deliver the best match possible".


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

more 2010 I am actually watching wrestling wow

Randy Orton v. Chris Masters (Raw 1/18/10)
Swear I watched this already. This is part of my Masters Completionist jive and as much as I love the guy I wasn't reallllly looking forward to this. I cannot name any wrestler, maybe on Earth right now, I am more tired of seeing than Randy Orton. I definitely like other wrestlers less, but I'm just not as fed up with them. Even this match which was four years ago I just feel pretty unenthusiastic about watching. It was all right, though, and didn't get almost any time whatsoever. Masters manages a Master Lock tease before actually getting one in and having a pretty intense struggle over it. Didn't like the immediate RKO win after Orton got out of it, but he at least sold it. And hell, not like I didn't see the RKO coming. NOT ADDING.

Sheamus v. John Cena (Raw 1/25/10)
Solid semi-big Raw match (with a super crowd), but had too many things I wasn't fond of. This had an awesome structure of Sheamus being in control of Cena, and Cena trying to hit his signatures and failing every time, probably due to weakness. Cena's immediate selling was mostly really good, and his attempts at flash wins were what separated this from a run of the mill Raw main event, but when he actually HIT one of the flash attempts. Yeah, "SuperCena". I've seen the guy do that kind of stuff and sell an injury really well, it's kind of bothersome he doesn't do it all the time. Sheamus getting back on offense at least ended my sighing, and there was a great minute of Cena ducking Sheamus' FACEBOOT and grabbing an STF, with Sheamus grabbing the ropes, running to the outside and hitting the FACEBOOT. I was interested to see where they would go from there, but Orton ends this by RKOing Sheamus. Oh, yeah. Good. Just the guy I wanted to see. Still not sold on 2010 Sheamus. I called the guy boring three+ years ago and that might be a little exaggerative, but in this I saw him knock Cena over, look at him for multiple seconds, pose, and go for a pin. Seems a little lost when he isn't trading moves. NOT ADDING.

Kane v. Dolph Ziggler (SmackDown 1/8/10)
Like Sheamus I wasn't sold on 2010 Ziggler. Unlike Sheamus Ziggler still hasn't really won me over and I find him actually kind of an annoying and f...trating guy to watch. I'd think if any year were to change my opinion it'd be this one. I get to see him against Danielson, Masters and Low Ki, but also frequently against scrubs like Kingston and Kane. What I can say about this is, "I didn't hate it I guess." I thought for sure watching Ziggler do his spaghetti fuck selling would look all right to me because Kane is supposed to be a monster. It still kind of looked like overselling. Do you need to twist your body that much for every punch? And for a guy who likes to bump so hard, Ziggler sure doesn't like selling very long. I've said so many times that he does this annoying back-and-forth bullshit through an entire match. You see where this is going. There was also an utterly ridiculous looking spot where Ziggler "tried" to get the sleeper on but 'couldn't", and all he was doing to show he couldn't was, like, I don't fucking know, patting Kane's head or something. Kane added nothing to this, duh. Didn't really think this was any good. NOT ADDING.

Kane v. Dolph Ziggler (SmackDown 1/15/10)
Their third match of the year so there's at least a premise to it. 1/1 SmackDown Kane didn't tap out so neither guy won the Beat the Clock thing. Last week(^) Kane lost because Ziggler kept the sleeper on outside of the ring and got in the ring before a ten count. And with everything they had to work with they made a damn fucking good match. Ziggler's saggy noodle bumping works wayyyy better when his opponent looks like he's trying to get revenge for something. Kane's offense isn't all that hot but he kept on Dolph without relent so the little shit couldn't get the sleeper on, so one of Ziggler's first offensive moves being the sleeper worked just about perfectly. The whole mid-match is basically building off of Ziggler having to use wear-down moves to keep Kane tired so he can eventually hit the sleeper again, and I didn't even mind that that moment never really came because of the power difference. They tease a count out again and have a great spot of Kane getting back in the ring, but sliding out again for a split second to avoid an elbow drop so he can hit Ziggler in the mush. Finish being a chokeslam wrapped the whole thing up. Very nearly added this. Definitely recommend it, even if you have to watch the dry match from the week before to get the other layer of it. Might have to watch the Beat the Clock match now. NOT ADDING.

Not posting the list b/c didn't add anything.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Wow, I think Henry just turned on Main Event.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Shame on us for forgetting Savage and Jericho. And I would say that Mick's heel work as Cactus Jack and as Mankind are very good. But what really put Mick over as a heel was his ECW run as the anti-hardcore character. That heel run was as good as anyone else on that list.

EDIT: Looks like the Intercontinental Title is going to continue on with this solid momentum based on SD spoilers. Let's hope the upcoming feud goes on for months.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Randy Savage completely and while it is hard to dispute Jericho as a total package, I wouldn't put him at the top of that list by any means. I suppose though that other than his ace "honest man/parasitic drone" run, I simply haven't had the acclaim for Jericho's work that the masses have. In the ring, I view Jericho as a fine technitian on the come up early on who turned into a good occassionally fantastic worker while others place him all time. I thought Jericho's worshiped AE first few years were greatly benefited off of who he played off of and the material lengths he could get away with. I think most of us can agree that Christian and HBK feud aside, the rest of his initial run was meh. Honest man run was ace and I have found him drastically declining in interest since. Just me though and again he is a complete package probably I just don't acclaim his work to the extent of the masses. Sorry.

I like Cjax list and definately gotta say as I've explained in great length in here before that the Funker is the end all be all. Foley covers such a plethora of bases that many don't even touch that he deserves a high distinction as a true total package. As a Flair supporter I agree there. Guerrero is obvious. That final spot is so damn hard. I would lean towards Arn but so many guys with so many different "flavors" if you will qualify in the spot and the degrees vary. Literally in the U.S. alone you could probably make a case for twenty or so guys in that five spot. So many total packages are total packages due to varying strengths and their talents in areas vary so much.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Disagree completely with the point made about his initial run. Dude was great. It wasn't just the HBK and Christian feud that he was great in. How dare you forget the Triple H feud? Or the Rock one? Or Benoit. Or Benjamin. Hey, how about Bookdust? And Austin? Even the Cena feud featured some great Jericho material. And after going through all of 2000 and 2001, I think it's safe to say that Jericho was the best possible workhorse a company could ever have. Always healthy, always over, easy to work with, could work many different styles, can be put in any position on the card, great tag team wrestler, and can even carry the likes of Chyna to a good match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've always found Jericho to be one of the more consistent people in WWE history when it came to being entertaining.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I wasn't really all that entertained by him this last run, to be honest.

I mean, he wasn't the worst thing on the show at all. Far from it. But it just felt off this time around. It's not like he was given much of a chance to do a lot anyways, so maybe that's it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

This run definitely hasn't been his best. But from '99 to 2013 (with some breaks in between) I always found him entertaining.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

So I just got done watching Bret/Bulldog at Summerslam 1992. For some reason, I always found it to be overrated but this time, everything clicked for me. I can finally see why this match is so revered. The back and forth action, the story, the crowd, it made this match really something. I also put in consideration that I heard this was a huge carry job by Bret as Bulldog was allegedly fucked up during the match lol. I guess I found it to be overrated before because I thought the pace was too slow but this time it wasn't a problem for me at all. I actually find the pace to be really fitting as both of them know each other immensely and are treating it like a chess game. Great shit (Y)

I also watched Bret/Bam Bam at Barcelona from 4/29/93 and it was a damn good one. Bret selling the back and Bam Bam working the back really well as well as the great back and forth action towards the end made this enjoyable to watch. 

I've been on kind of a Bret Hart kick and I'm enjoying the hell out of it  I gotta watch a lot of stuff from his run in 1991-1997.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If it wasn't for the existance of the GOAT in his best year austin), Jericho would probably be the BITW in 2001. And his 2008 was rather great too, not just for the ring work but also because DAT HEEL SLOW TALKIN' BITW AT WHAT HE DOES JERICHO.

Speaking of which, which do you guys think was the worst/least good year ever for your favorite wrestler?

Me personally, I'd like to say Austin's worst year was by far 2002. He had, like, 3 entertaining televised matches [30-Man Rumble (LOL), w/Rock vs nWo, vs Flair & Show @ JD], and everything else, especially PPV related stuff, was either below average at best or straight up crap. Especially dissapointing is the fact that he had came off of his greatest year ever (2001), only to pull out a terribly underwhelming '02.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HBK's worst year was probably 2004 for me. Probably because the Triple H feud took up quite a bit of it. Although with the awesome Benoit/Triple H/HBk stuff, it wasn't a total dud. 

For Punk, I'd probably say 2007. Not counting 2006 because it was the debut year and he was mostly in 2 minute squashes. '07, outside of a couple of the Morrison matches and a couple matches after he won the title, wasn't great.

With Eddie I'd probably go with 2000. He was fun but I thought he really flourished in his second run.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> You want epic Eddie promos?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:agree: Thanks for that one.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Watched RAW. Not getting this praise for the IC title stuff. Just changing the title back and forth doesn't make a good 'feud'. I couldn't care less about it if I'm being honest.

It was the Ambrose show though which ruled. Guy is the real deal for sure.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Should you be surprised something w/Dolph Ziggler was blown up to a degree you can't quite understand?

Ambrose rules the world & I quite enjoyed the six man tag again this week. Although the result & commentator propaganda was lolWWE.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Sandow at ringside was more entertaining than the match.

HBK's 2006 is definitely much worse than his 2004. In 2004 he had all the classics with Benoit while in 2006, he was stuck working shitty tags against the Spirit Squad.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't remember the last time I even bothered to watch a Ziggler match. Going up against someone like Jiz sure as fuck isn't going to inspire me to watch.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Not shocked to see people here dislike good wrestling with good callback spots, long term selling, and lots of drama. Perhaps we need more fat people to bore us to death :insertcalsmiley

Michaels had a really bad 2006. The biggest indicator of it was how Maria had a better match against Umaga than him. I faintly recall his 1993 not being too good. Undertaker's worst year that wasn't because of him working with hosses would probably be 2000. And you can pick any WCW year for Bret.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Not shocked to see people here dislike good wrestling with good callback spots, long term selling, and lots of drama.


I thought we were talking about the Miz?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If by fat people you mean big fatties, it really depends. It's really like the whole "punching and kicking makes a really good match" argument some people MAY kinda believe in here. Guys like Vader, Bigelow, Andre (in his prime) and Henry (though he really let me down at NOC) are (Y) for my money. But there are quite a few other cases where, you know, they just don't do anything for me. It's just a case where you have to see what goes down. The assumption that fat people are automatically boring is stupid. But I would never ever say that big guys just punching each other makes me go :mark:, unless they're stiffing the holy crap out of one another which is awesome. Back and forth just for the sake of it isn't all that good either for me, it's just FLASHY SPOTZ~, but if done right, I would probably have more fun watching that than a slugfest between two giants. It's all down to taste, really.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Disagree completely with the point made about his initial run. Dude was great. It wasn't just the HBK and Christian feud that he was great in. How dare you forget the Triple H feud? Or the Rock one? Or Benoit. Or Benjamin. Hey, how about Bookdust? And Austin? Even the Cena feud featured some great Jericho material. And after going through all of 2000 and 2001, I think it's safe to say that Jericho was the best possible workhorse a company could ever have. Always healthy, always over, easy to work with, could work many different styles, can be put in any position on the card, great tag team wrestler, and can even carry the likes of Chyna to a good match.


Well shoot I do supppose I'll give credit that Jericho's feud with HHH leading into fully loaded was pretty damn solid. If you are going to try and get me to concede that Jericho's WM 18 "feud" with Hunter was great though you are mistaken. Ah yes Jericho/Benjamin with such great material as "Shelton Shelton is a little bitch" No thanks there. Jericho was pretty good playing off Austin. I don't remember Jericho feuding with Bookdust. Hmmm have to go find that as Bookdust was a great comedy team. Again, I gave credit to Jericho's skill, just didn't find his initial run as entertaining as the masses. Differences of opinion can occur you know.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I don't really like all those Eddie Guerrero promos.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I thought we were talking about the Miz?


Nah, we're talking about Keiji Mutoh.

Thanks for the reviews btw. Are you planning on watching NXT as well? And what caused you to start watching wrestling again?


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Can anyone help me with finding that Jericho/Austin segment that happened after RAW went off-air? I think it was in 2002 because I remember Jericho being a heel.
I think it's a fairly popular segment. I think it was around the time when Austin couldn't Stunner anyone who didn't touch him.

It was up on youtube some time ago, but I think they took it down.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Thanks for the reviews btw. Are you planning on watching NXT as well? And what caused you to start watching wrestling again?


The best wrestler ever subforum on PWO got me thinking about wrestling more than I have for the rest of the year. This'll probably last three more days, IDK. I have a few NXT matches I plan to watch, definitely won't skim through shows, though. Not thrilled by the people on there and I remember that jungle gym obstacle course soda drinking monkey bar nonsense too well to bother ever seeing it again. Also it sucked pigdick.

-----------

Twenty ten (not two thousand and ten - that's incorrect. Middle finger).

Chris Masters v. Chavo Guerrero v. Primo (SuperStars 1/25/10)
Had enough moments with all three guys in the ring to at least seem like a semi-different three way than most WWE three ways, but still a pretty unspectacular match. Chavo eventually takes out Masters and Primo both with one of those "off of the turnbuckle into a group of stoopid guys who do not realise there are more places to go besides the one spot they are currently standing in" dives (which I'm starting to really not like), and Masters laying there for what felt like a lot longer than it actually was looked a little silly. I guess I always think it's silly but in a MITB the camera doesn't focus on the guys holding their rib for twelve minutes because somebody sneezed on them. They were a little showier of Masters in that position here. Thought it was at least neat that they extended Masters' time out of the ring via an actual spot of him getting knocked out while trying to come back in. Masters landed on his arm and sold it like he'd landed on his arm; that was a nice touch. Finishing master lock/pin/master lock trade was really cool, too. NOT ADDING.

Batista v. Rey Mysterio (SmackDown 1/15/10)
Cage match. I wasn't as excited for this as other Rey matches because the name ''Batista'' kind of has my kneejerk reaction of ''mediocrity,'' but then I remembered the LMS with Cena the same year and almost instantly got more hyped. It didn't live up to the hype I built up eight seconds before watching it, but was pretty cool. Rey tries an early escape more than a couple times, including an awesome spot where, after realising he can't hit a 619, uses Batista's back to sprint up the cage. The commentators and Rey himself and the random jobbers in the back wishing Rey good luck were building this up as Rey's most underdoggy of underdogous matches, and Rey sells it with that Spider-Man escape stuff really well. Standard Praising Rey Mysterio Line #3,506. Batista gets to chuck Rey around making himself look all big 'n' shit and Rey continues to try to escape. That's it, I guess. Match was shorter than you'd expect for the most underdoggist of all underdoggery matches. This is better than I'm making it sound. Promise. NOT ADDING. 

Christian v. William Regal (SuperStars 1/14/10)
Who the fuck is this annoying dork on commentary? Never found anyone up until now that made me think "shut up and let Josh Mathews talk." This was obviously list-worthy. Not sure I ever noticed this but despite how snug Christian would work against Regal, it looked like they were ''telling a story'' of Christian getting more out of the ''pop'' offense. Regal basically immediately got the upper-hand once his bread and butter of chain graps came up. Regal works like Regal and delivers the tight beatings with elbows and neck twisters and some things I will describe as ''hard nipple punches''. A totally great uppercut seemingly came out of nowhere which was awesome as hell. Not going to have this high and I'm not completely confident in where exactly to rank it, but I'm going to order the ''other contenders'' outside of the top 25 chronologically so thinking about placement of low matches isn't a high priority for me. ADDING.

-----
I am only noticing now that WWE have uploaded every single episode of SuperStars from 2010 on their youtube channel. Oh boy, that might extend what I want to watch.
-----

Chris Masters v. Carlito (SuperStars 1/14/10)
Went back through the 1/14 episode and found a Masters match. Thought for sure I'd get a thirty second match after Carlito spit apple at Masters. Instead I go like a pretty cool few minutes with Carlito being kinda weasly and Masters fighting back after a shot to the ring post. Won't stand out but I'd say it's a small plus to Masters' 2010. NOT ADDING.

Goldust/Yoshi Tatsu v. The Dudebusters (ECW 1/19/10)
Hey, look at that, WWE uploaded those ECW episodes as well. And hey, look at that, GOLDUST. Unfortunately there wasn't a lot of Goldust since he mainly played the hot tag. Even then he didn't do much other than his signature stuff of spinny slam and kneeling upper-punch and inverted atomic drop. Not really sure what to think of the Dudebusters. Dunno if they actually did anything I didn't like, but watching them tag back and forth while working on Yoshi, I started widening my eyes and wishing Goldust would just get into the ring. Yoshi's armdrag things are terrible. NOT ADDING.

Christian v. William Regal (ECW 1/19/10)
Not on level of their best matches from 2009, but fucking awesome anyway. This still kind of had a theme of Regal doing better when trading holds, and they got more time to work with that (than during 1/14), before Christian's preppy stuff was derailed. Regal was on another level from the 1/14 match, looking more violent in practically everything. Dunno if he had any single shot as hard as though maybe-nipple-punches from the other match, but every move felt much more impactful and important in this. Regal pulled at Christian's pinky for a sec and no matter how short a time you see it bend you can't help but breathe in. Laying Christian's head next to the ring post and booting the side of his face was big, too. Maybe my favourite spot was when he stopped a backslide by kicking backwards into Christian's calf. Regal has a lot of meticulousness to his holds and that but he'll make shit like that look more loose cannon and haphazard. Christian does the comeback thing with droopy glassy eyed striking. He's great at it. Water is wet. The Sun is bright. You have a birthday. This is going high right now. ADDING.

Current list:



Spoiler: WHATTUP?



1.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (SmackDown 2/12/10)
2.	John Cena v. Batista (Extreme Rules 4/25/10)
3.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Over the Limit 5/23/10)
4.	Jack Swagger v. Rey Mysterio (SmackDown 6/11/10)
5.	Christian v. William Regal (ECW 1/19/10)
6.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/16/10)
7.	Christian v. Ezekiel Jackson (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
8.	Christian/Kane v. William Regal/Ezekiel Jackson (ECW 1/26/10)
9.	Shawn Michaels v. The Undertaker (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
10.	William Regal v. Evan Bourne (SuperStars 3/4/10)
11.	Chris Jericho v. Evan Bourne (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
12.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Extreme Rules 4/29/10)
13.	The Undertaker v. Rey Mysterio (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
14.	Drew McIntyre v. Kaval (SmackDown 9/10/10)
15.	Christian v. William Regal (SuperStars 1/14/10)
16.	Kofi Kingston v. Drew McIntyre (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
17.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
18.	d
19.	d
20.	d
21.	d
22.	d
23.	d
24.	d
25.	d



Other contenders:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Tyler Breeze vs Sami Zayn vs Tyson Kidd vs Adrian Neville (NXT Takeover II)

****1/4

Zayn = Super :mark:​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jheri do a write up on Gallows vs Archer from Superstars in late '10.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Speaking of all the Guerrero promos yesterday, this video popped up in my "suggested" list or whatever on YouTube.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What is the date of that promo?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I don't know. It's a compilation of promos during the angle.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I remember the promo w/the custody worker & setting up the SummerSlam match going way, way too long. Watching it air I was losing interest b/c it was a foregone conclusion and well, the angle sucked. Ahh those days w/the long winded stuff on Smackdown. Batista main events w/30 minutes left. That promo. Teddy Long's wedding. Such nostalgia. 

Now to find something on WWE network to watch. I still want more added & yet I have a hard time choosing what I want to watch often. How's about that.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm going ***1/2 with Ziggler/Miz. I don't like it just because Ziggler's in it. I thought the match was significantly better than their other ones and I happen to really like Ziggler's style. So maybe I enjoy his stuff more than the average person. i do think that Ziggler has had a down year, match wise though. Outside of this week's match, a couple of the Rollins ones, the Barrett one and maybe a couple others, his matches haven't been above average. I do recall liking one of the Batista ones from like March or April.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, Ziggler did have the terrific IC Title match against Barrett on May, as well as another good match in the IC Title Tournament w/him. Plus... uhh... SS vs the Miz was pretty good too... and... I believe he had a decent No DQ match against Batista if I'm not wrong.

I miss Summer of 2013 post-double turn, pre-MITB match w/ADR ending Ziggler.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

ATF said:


> Well, Ziggler did have the terrific IC Title match against Barrett on May, as well as another good match in the IC Title Tournament w/him. Plus... uhh... SS vs the Miz was pretty good too... and... I believe he had a decent No DQ match against Batista if I'm not wrong.
> 
> I miss Summer of 2013 post-double turn, pre-MITB match w/ADR ending Ziggler.


Ziggler had a nice underrated EC qualifier match with Cesaro and I think he had some more nice matches w/ Cesaro.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Isn't it a known fact by now that Dolph Ziggler is a the fucking man in WWE?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Actually that would be Daniel Bryan, good sir.

Oh wait, Bryan is out.... in that case, it's Sami Zayn, good sir.

Oh wait, Zayn isn't on the main roster... well, it's Dean Ambrose then, good sir.

YOU'RE WELCOME.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Does Ambrose deliver quality matches on a regular basis? I don't think so. I'm sure Ziggler could get a good match out of Kane, good sir.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Both Ambrose and Ziggler get good matches out of Kane. That's not that hard.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> *Does Ambrose deliver quality matches on a regular basis?* I don't think so. I'm sure Ziggler could get a good match out of Kane, good sir.


Yes. Off the top of my head within the past few months he's had:

V Rollins x2 Summerslam and Raw
V Cesaro x2 Raw and no DQ on Smackdown
V Orton Smackdown
V Wyatt Smackdown MITB qualifier
V Sheamus Smackdown for the US title
V Del Rio V Rybaxel for the US title

Add in Shield matches

V Wyatt's x 4
V Evolution. Possibly 2 depending on your views on Payback
V Bryan/Cena/Sheamus
V Los Matadores/Sin Cara


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> *Does Ambrose deliver quality matches on a regular basis?* I don't think so. I'm sure Ziggler could get a good match out of Kane, good sir.


:bryanlol:what

Bro where have you been?


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Brye said:


> I'm going ***1/2 with Ziggler/Miz. I don't like it just because Ziggler's in it. I thought the match was significantly better than their other ones and I happen to really like Ziggler's style. So maybe I enjoy his stuff more than the average person. i do think that Ziggler has had a down year, match wise though. Outside of this week's match, a couple of the Rollins ones, the Barrett one and maybe a couple others, his matches haven't been above average. I do recall liking one of the Batista ones from like March or April.


He's had a decent year match-wise given the opportunities he's been given. It's not 2012/2013 where he got to face Sheamus, ADR, Orton, etc on PPV. All the matches you've listed have been good + the matches he's had w/ Cesaro (mostly fall of 2013). 

I'd still love to see him face Cesaro on PPV for the IC Title but that's not happening as long as Cesaro is chasing the US Title. Which is still fine by me if he and Sheamus will continue to pull off great matches like they did at NOC.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

sharkboy22 said:


> *Does Ambrose deliver quality matches on a regular basis? I don't think so.* I'm sure Ziggler could get a good match out of Kane, good sir.


:faint:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sharkboy knock it off.

and people taking the bait. jesus.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

GIVE ME A SHELL YEAH

Speaking of Shark Boy, he was such an odd character but I really liked some of the humor around him. Plus Curryman. :mark:


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Sharkboy knock it off.
> 
> and people taking the bait. jesus.


Hey, not my fault some of them got [Bobby Fish]hooked.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It goes both ways. 

like Orlando Jordan's character.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Hmmm, Daniels as Daniels or Daniels as curry man?


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> It goes both ways.
> 
> like Orlando Jordan's character.


:millhouse


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

CHIEF OF STAFF THOUGH


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Brye said:


> CHIEF OF STAFF THOUGH


That Titanron is actually pretty good and that song is a Ear Worm.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sound effects in that track always got the most unusual reactions from me.

his TNA theme though. Now that's a different story.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Man, Orlando Jordan was great.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Just listened to OJ's TNA theme. Never heard it before. It's got an oddly catchy beat.


Night of Champions 2008

Miz & Morrison vs Finlay & Hornswoggle - ***1/4 (2)
Matt Hardy vs Chavo Guerrero - *1/2 (.5)
Mark Henry vs Kane vs Big Show - ***1/4 (2)
DiBiase & Rhodes vs Hardcore Holly - N/A (0)
Kofi Kingston vs Chris Jericho - ** (.5)
Mickie James vs Katie Lea Burchill mark - **3/4 (1)
Edge vs Batista - **1/2 (1)
John Cena vs Triple H - ***1/4 (2)

Total: 9

- Second show in a row with a really fun opening match. Miz & Morrison owned as a tag team and Finlay was still a badass. And they incorperated Swoggle pretty well.

- Matt vs Chavo was just really, really boring.

- Big man match was rather fun. Henry was a fucking beast. I totally forgot about this going into the show. 

- DiBiase/Rhodes/Holly thing made for an interesting segment. Not going to rate it as a match though because it hardly is.

- Let it be known I like the idea and the booking of Jericho/Kofi. Up and comer getting a big win for the IC title over a big veteran. It just wasn't a very exciting match though. 

- I was a big Katie Lea fan. Match was solid but not up to par with the last couple PPV matches.

- Batista/Edge had a bunch of fuckery in it. Chavo as the ref, Hawkins/Ryder/Vickie. Idk, I wasn't feeling it at all.

- Cena/Trips is good. Definitely picks up in the last few minutes but I didn't think it really flowed all that well. 

- Pretty forgettable PPV.

Wrestlemania - 31.5
No Way Out - 20
One Night Stand - 14
Judgment Day - 13
Night of Champions - 9
Royal Rumble - 8
Backlash - 7


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I know you didn't ask me but I figured I'd answer anyway and then if you want I'd like to see who you put up there as the best ever.



I honestly don't think I know enough wrestling to make claim for all-round packages. It seems you all have watched and rewatched a bunch of WWE/WCW, while, as for myself, look how things went when I dipped into 2008 and 2006 WWE alone. Austin and Flair would probably be my top, with Funk somewhere inbetween. Funk's never been a perfect promo, he stumbles over his words, his intonation is never collected and he can be rather dry, but that's quite honestly what I love about him. He's a crazy Southern loon, talking how I imagine one to be as if he was caught up in his emotions. Terry's definitely a strong hand in playing to his strengths (similarly like Ambrose) there. Not sure it's quite a pass at the level of "Misawa doesn't show emotion because it's his nature not to" but I'll make one anyway. I adore Eddie but he's never had a career greatness as long as Austin or Flair nor reached their peaks. That said, if I was put on a deserted island, made to choose between the three only to not be allowed to take an Eddie comp, I'd rather kill myself.


Boring picks, hey? I need to watch more Savage. I actually need to bother watching the promos for the Memphis set before watching the matches. But they're not the be all of what I want from wrestling. I want to pop a match in and fall in love. Best "workers" ever seems a much easier task, even if that list would change depending on what day it is. All I know is that, currently, Cesaro > Bryan but Bryan is top 10 while Cesaro might not be top 100.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Went and looked up my list of best packages in a thread from a while back.



this was ten months ago said:


> Ric Flair
> Stan Hansen
> Jerry Lawler
> Randy Savage
> ...



Don't think I'd change the list right now, other than maybe exchanging Murdoch for Dundee. And seriously.....I should spend the entirety of whatever day I have absolutely nothing on watching Buddy Rose so I can stop fucking mentioning how I need to watch more of him in these kinds of posts. I can't help but think I'm forgetting one or two more people. Should add Jim Cornette purely for the match with Cowabunga the Turtle. And Orlando Jordan.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

You see, if I listened to Lawler on the mic (and he carried that over well) he'd probably be right up there. He's one of the best wrestlers, already. Ditto for Hansen who completely skipped my mind. Automatically equate him to Japan and that shuts off thinking of his promos. Lawler is definitely a top three "wrestler-types" who made music guy, though. Top 5 is probably:


1) Mike Tenay
2) Randy Savage
3) Jerry lawler
4) Terry Funk
5) Three Tenors (Kawada, Kobashi & Misawa)




Spoiler: honourable mention













Still better than Konnan's rap album


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Why for the love of all things holy have I never seen that Lawler video before? WHY?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> Why for the love of all things holy have I never seen that Lawler video before? WHY?


Dunno, its on the Memphis set.  :side:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rah said:


> You see, if I listened to Lawler on the mic (and he carried that over well) he'd probably be right up there. He's one of the best wrestlers, already. Ditto for Hansen who completely skipped my mind. Automatically equate him to Japan and that shuts off thinking of his promos. Lawler is definitely a top three "wrestler-types" who made music guy, though. Top 5 is probably:
> 
> 
> 1) Mike Tenay
> ...


I haven't listened to Be A Man is SO LONG. I smell a coward, IS THAT YOU HOGAN? 


Wimpbusters? Are you fucking kidding me!? Never seen that or the Funk song. Holy shit. 


Lawler might be my favourite mic worker. One of the reasons being he's just so real in a lot of his interviews. He talks like a genuine human more than most wrestlers, and that really helps a lot of the angles and feuds seem authentic. Hell, Lawler v. Kaufman is one of my favourite feuds ever, and I'm a guy who's obsessed with ring work over everything else. Memphis angles were the goddamn shit.



Brock said:


> Dunno, its on the Memphis set.  :side:


It is!? I've watched that whole thing other than one disc I don't have. Is it on there!? There's no way I would have seen it and not remembered it. I just don't believe it. Possible I skipped it because a lot of the music videos were just highlight vids with a song over it and I felt no need to continue watching that stuff.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

MELTZER said:


> The plan as of this week for Hell in a Cell is for Cena vs. Ambrose to be the opening match. The winner gets to face Rollins inside the Cell, while the loser gets the consolation of facing Orton inside the Cell.


I highly doubt they'll put down their most over feud for a Cena main, but Ambrose going over Cena seems rather far-fetched, at this point. With Bryan and Reigns out, I guess, though, that WWE have no choice but to finally strap the rocket to what the crowd really does want.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I haven't listened to Be A Man is SO LONG. I smell a coward, IS THAT YOU HOGAN?
> 
> 
> Wimpbusters? Are you fucking kidding me!? Never seen that or the Funk song. Holy shit.
> ...


*Disc 9*
Jerry Lawler vs. Dutch Mantell (5/29/88)
Jerry Lawler vs. Kerry Von Erich (6/27/88)
Bill Dundee, Jeff Jarrett & Jimmy Valiant vs. Robert Fuller, Jimmy Golden & Tommy Rich (9/17/88)
Jerry Lawler vs. Kerry Von Erich (9/17/88)
Bill Dundee & Brickhouse Brown vs. Jimmy Golden & Robert Fuller (9/18/88)
Dutch Mantell vs. Jeff Jarrett (Orchestra Match) (Late 1988)
Dutch Mantell vs. Jeff Jarrett (1/28/89)
Robert Fuller & Jimmy Golden vs. Jed Grundy & Scott Steiner (2/18/89)
Shogun & Samurai vs. Mason Dixon Connection (3/25/89)
Jerry Lawler, Jeff Jarrett & Freddy vs. Dutch Mantell, Master of Pain & Ronnie Gossett (7/10/89)
Buddy Landel vs. Freddy (8/12/89)
BONUS: Jerry Lawler’s Heel Turn
BONUS: Memphis Music:
Bad News
Son of a Gypsy
Lance Russell’s Nose
We Hate School
Moondogs
I’m So In Love With Me
Wimpbusters
Mean Streak
The World’s Greatest Wrestler
Trouble
Eye for an Eye


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Rah said:


> You see, if I listened to Lawler on the mic (and he carried that over well) he'd probably be right up there. He's one of the best wrestlers, already. Ditto for Hansen who completely skipped my mind. Automatically equate him to Japan and that shuts off thinking of his promos. Lawler is definitely a top three "wrestler-types" who made music guy, though. Top 5 is probably:
> 
> 
> 1) Mike Tenay
> ...


Randy Savage rapping>>>>


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I would like to disclaim my lack of Lawler on my list due to not regionally having Memphis and then later having difficulty finding a whole lot of it since that library is famously a weirdly spread out library. One day I'll have to change that.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

WrestlingOracle said:


> I would like to disclaim my lack of Lawler on my list due to not regionally having Memphis and then later having difficulty finding a whole lot of it since that library is famously a weirdly spread out library. One day I'll have to change that.


Most of the DVDVR Memphis Set was on YT, may still be TBH.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

How good is the set? (srynoobhere)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Alot say GOAT. I havn't watched through all of it myself, only the odd matches/angles/promos, but i will go back to it soon as i want to see more Savage stuff. Listing is here:



Spoiler: Memphis DVDVR Listings



9 Disc DVDVR Memphis Set (plus 7 bonus discs) - Match Listings

Disc 1
Bill Dundee vs. Larry Latham (4/19/80)
Ricky Morton vs. Sonny King (4/26/80)
Bill Dundee vs. Paul Ellering (5/24/80)
Bill Dundee & Tony Boyles vs. Wayne Farris & Larry Latham (6/7/80)
Bill Dundee vs. Tommy Rich (8/23/80)
Bill Dundee vs. Wayne Farris & Tojo Yamamoto (3/7/81)
Bill Dundee & Tommy Rich vs. Dutch Mantell & Austin Idol (3/12/81)
Bill Dundee & Dream Machine vs. Dutch Mantell & Wayne Farris (3/14/81)
Jerry Lawler vs. Terry Funk (No DQ) (3/23/81)
Jerry Lawler vs. Dory Funk Jr. (3/30/81)
Jerry Lawler vs. Terry Funk (Empty Arena) (4/6/81)
Bill Dundee & Dream Machine vs. Kevin Sullivan & Wayne Farris (5/2/81)
Jerry Lawler vs. Crusher Blackwell (5/4/81)
Dutch Mantell vs. Kevin Sullivan (5/9/81)
BONUS: Wayne Ferris & Larry Latham vs. Rick & Robert Gibson (Concession Stand Brawl) (4/11/80)
BONUS: 1981 Terry Funk Promos

Disc 2
Bill Dundee, Steve Keirn, Rick & Robert Gibson vs. Dream Machine, Nightmare #1 & Heartbreakers (7/25/81)
Jerry Lawler & Bill Dundee vs. Masa Fuchi & Atsushi Onita (8/1/81)
Ricky Morton & Eddie Gilbert vs. Masa Fuchi & Atsushi Onita (Tupelo Concession Stand Brawl) (9/4/81)
Masa Fuchi, Atsushi Onita & Tojo Yamamoto vs. Roy Rogers, Rick & Robert Gibson (9/5/81)
Stan Lane & Koko Ware vs. Eddie Gilbert & Ricky Morton (No DQ, 2/3 Falls) (10/81)
Jerry Lawler vs. Dutch Mantell (No DQ) (3/22/82)
Jerry Lawler vs. Dutch Mantell (Loser Leaves Town) (3/27/82)
Jerry Lawler vs. Dutch Mantell (Barbed Wire Match) (3/29/82)
Bill Dundee vs. Sweet Brown Sugar (2/3 falls, Scaffold Match) (6/21/82)
Bobby Eaton & Sweet Brown Sugar vs. Dutch Mantell & King Cobra (7/19/82)
Bill Dundee vs. Bobby Eaton (7/24/82)
Jerry Lawler vs. Ric Flair (8/14/82)
BONUS: Louisville Brawl (5/26/81)
BONUS: Kamala + Jimmy Hart (8/28/82)
BONUS: Jim Cornette + Jerry Lawler + Bill Dundee (9/4/82)

Disc 3
New York Dolls vs. Steve Regal & Spike Huber (10/4/82)
Jerry Lawler vs. Nick Bockwinkel (10/18/82)
Jerry Lawler vs. Nick Bockwinkel (10/25/82)
Jerry Lawler vs. Nick Bockwinkel (No DQ) (11/8/82)
Jackie Fargo vs. Jimmy Hart (11/8/82)
Fabulous Ones vs. The New York Dolls (2/3 Falls) (11/13/82)
Bill Dundee & Bobby Fulton vs. Bobby Eaton & Sweet Brown Sugar (11/15/82)
Bill Dundee & Jerry Lawler vs. Adrian Street & Apocalypse (11/27/82)
Jerry Lawler, Bill Dundee, Dutch Mantell & Terry Taylor vs. Bobby Eaton, Sweet Brown Sugar, Rick McGraw & Sabu (12/4/82)
Ronnie Garvin vs. Lanny Poffo (ICW 1982/83)
Ronnie Garvin vs. Randy Savage (Cage Match) (ICW 1982/83)
Bobby Eaton & Sweet Brown Sugar vs. Jacques Rougeau & Terry Taylor (1/1/83)
Bill Dundee vs. Adrian Street, Miss Linda & Jim Cornette (Lumberjack Strap Match) (2/6/83)
BONUS: Nick Bockwinkel Promo 1982
BONUS: Nick Bockwinkel vs. Jerry Lawler Feud 1984

Disc 4
Dutch Mantell, Steve O & The Fabulous Ones vs. Adrian Street, Jesse Barr & The Sheepherders (Stipulations Match) (3/28/83)
Bill Dundee vs. Terry Taylor (4/4/83)
Fabulous Ones vs. The Moondogs (4/4/83)
Fabulous Ones vs. The Moondogs (Stretcher Match) (5/2/83)
Fabulous Ones vs. Bobby Eaton & Duke Myers (Hair vs. Titles) (5/16/83)
Jerry Lawler vs. Bill Dundee (Loser Leaves Town) (6/6/83)
Fabulous Ones vs. Moondogs (6/13/83)
Rock N Roll Express & Bobby Eaton vs. The Moondogs & Jimmy Hart (7/25/83)
Bill Dundee vs. Assassin #1 (9/25/83)
Jerry Lawler & Austin Idol vs. Jesse Ventura & Stan Hansen (9/25/83)
Austin Idol vs. Stan Hansen (Texas Bullrope Match) (10/3/83)
Austin Idol vs. Stan Hansen (Bunkhouse Match) (10/10/83)
Koko Ware vs. Tommy Rogers (10/24/83)
Bill Dundee vs. Tommy Rogers (11/7/83)
Dutch Mantel, Koko Ware, Bobby Eaton & Jaguar vs. The Grapplers & Bruise Brothers (12/10/83)
Jerry Lawler vs. Randy Savage (Cage Match) (12/12/83)
Jerry Lawler & Cowboy Lang vs. Plowboy Frazier & Little Tokyo (12/24/83)

Disc 5
Fabulous Ones vs. The Moondogs (1/9/84)
Jimmy Valiant vs. The Assassin (Hair vs. Mask) (4/2/84)
Jerry Lawler vs. Randy Savage (4/9/84)
Eddie Gilbert & Tommy Rich vs. Pretty Young Things (4/12/84)
Randy Savage vs. Austin Idol (5/7/84)
Randy Savage vs. Austin Idol (5/14/84)
Tommy Rich & Eddie Gilbert vs. Pretty Young Things (Falls Count Anywhere) (5/18/84)
The Fabulous Ones vs. Pretty Young Things (6/25/84)
Tommy Rich & Eddie Gilbert vs. Phil Hickerson & The Spoiler (Tennessee Street Fight) (6/25/84)
Rock N Roll Express vs. Lanny Poffo & Randy Savage (6/25/84)
Rock N Roll Express vs. Lanny Poffo & Randy Savage (7/9/84)
Tommy Rich vs. Masao Ito (7/9/84)
Jerry Lawler vs. King Kong Bundy ($10,000 Challenge) (7/16/84)
Randy Savage vs. Rick Rude (9/3/84)
Jerry Lawler & Randy Savage vs. King Kong Bundy & Rick Rude (9/10/84)
Jerry Lawler & Randy Savage vs. King Kong Bundy & Rick Rude (No DQ) (9/17/84)
Dutch Mantell vs. Eddie Gilbert (9/17/84)
Dirty White Boys vs. Randy Savage & Mark Batten (10/13/84)
BONUS: Breakup of New Fabulous Ones

Disc 6
Ted Oates & Rip Rogers vs. Lightning Express (11/10/84)
Ronnie Garvin vs. Eddie Gilbert (11/17/84)
Nightmares vs. Batten Brothers (12/29/84)
Rock N Roll Express vs. The Nightmares (1/13/85)
Dirty White Boys vs. The Interns (1/14/85)
Randy Savage vs. Adrian Street (1/28/85)
Randy Savage, Lanny Poffo & Joe Lightfoot vs. Mr. Wrestling, Eddie Gilbert & Adrian Street (3/4/85)
Pretty Young Things vs. The Daydreamers (Texas Tornado) (3/25/85)
Tommy Rich vs. Moondog Rex (4/22/85)
Fabulous Ones vs. Pretty Young Things (4/22/85)
Randy Savage vs. Jerry Oski (5/7/85)
Lanny Poffo vs. Jerry Oski (5/18/85)
Jerry Lawler v. Bruiser Brody (5/20/85)
Jerry Lawler vs. Randy Savage (Loser Leaves Town) (6/3/85)
Fabulous Ones vs. The Sheepherders (Boyd & Morgan) (6/22/85)
Jerry Lawler & Austin Idol vs. Michael Hayes & Terry Gordy (8/5/85)
Fabulous Ones vs. The Sheepherders (Cage Match) (8/6/85)
BONUS: This Is Your Life, Jerry Lawler

Disc 7
Jerry Lawler & Austin Idol vs. Michael Hayes & Terry Gordy (Badstreet Match) (8/12/85)
Rock N Roll Express vs. Ivan Koloff & Krusher Khrushchev (9/30/85)
Jerry Lawler & Bill Dundee vs. Tom Pritchard & Pat Rose (10/12/85)
Jerry Lawler vs. Rick Martel (Nashville 10/12/85)
Jerry Lawler vs. Bill Dundee (10/19/85)
Koko Ware vs. Masked Superstar (Jerry Stubbs) (10/26/85)
Bill Dundee & Sherri Martel vs. Koko Ware & Candi Divine (10/26/85)
Jerry Lawler, Dusty Rhodes & Magnum T.A. vs. Ole Anderson, Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard (11/18/85)
Koko Ware vs. Ric Flair (11/18/85)
Jerry Lawler vs. Bill Dundee (No DQ, Loser Leaves Town) (12/30/85)
Jerry Lawler & Dutch Mantel vs. Bill Dundee & Buddy Landel (3/10/86)
The Nightmares vs. Fire and Flame (7/12/86)
Jerry Lawler vs. Bill Dundee (No DQ, Loser Leaves Town) (7/14/86)
The Nightmares vs. Mod Squad (Wear a Dress vs. Make-up Session) (7/21/86)
BONUS: Jerry Lawler & Dutch Mantel vs. Bill Dundee & Buddy Landel (Texas Death Match Clips) (3/24/86)

Disc 8
Jerry Lawler vs. Bam Bam Bigelow (Texas Death) (9/7/86)
Jerry Lawler & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Austin Idol & Tommy Rich (Double Jeopardy Match) (3/16/87)
Jerry Lawler & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Austin Idol & Tommy Rich (Texas Death Match) (3/23/87)
Jerry Lawler vs. Austin Idol (Hair vs. Hair, Steel Cage Match) (4/27/87)
Nick Bockwinkel vs. Jeff Jarrett (5/4/87)
Jeff Jarrett, Tracy Smothers, & Billy Travis vs. Badd Company & King Carl Fergie (8/29/87)
Jerry Lawler vs. Eddie Gilbert (No DQ) (3/28/88)
Eddie Marlin vs. Tommy Gilbert (Cowboy Boot Match) (4/4/88)
Jerry Lawler vs. Curt Hennig (Title vs. Retirement) (5/9/88)
BONUS: Don Bass Sings!
BONUS: Don Bass vs. Jerry Lawler Feud
BONUS: Evansville Dressing Room Brawl

Disc 9
Jerry Lawler vs. Dutch Mantell (5/29/88)
Jerry Lawler vs. Kerry Von Erich (6/27/88)
Bill Dundee, Jeff Jarrett & Jimmy Valiant vs. Robert Fuller, Jimmy Golden & Tommy Rich (9/17/88)
Jerry Lawler vs. Kerry Von Erich (9/17/88)
Bill Dundee & Brickhouse Brown vs. Jimmy Golden & Robert Fuller (9/18/88)
Dutch Mantell vs. Jeff Jarrett (Orchestra Match) (Late 1988)
Dutch Mantell vs. Jeff Jarrett (1/28/89)
Robert Fuller & Jimmy Golden vs. Jed Grundy & Scott Steiner (2/18/89)
Shogun & Samurai vs. Mason Dixon Connection (3/25/89)
Jerry Lawler, Jeff Jarrett & Freddy vs. Dutch Mantell, Master of Pain & Ronnie Gossett (7/10/89)
Buddy Landel vs. Freddy (8/12/89)
BONUS: Jerry Lawler’s Heel Turn
BONUS: Memphis Music:
Bad News
Son of a Gypsy
Lance Russell’s Nose
We Hate School
Moondogs
I’m So In Love With Me
Wimpbusters
Mean Streak
The World’s Greatest Wrestler
Trouble
Eye for an Eye

Disc 10
Memphis Extras 1
Andy Kaufman:
Andy Kaufman comes to Memphis
Andy Kaufman Promos + Jerry Lawler Promos
Andy Kaufman vs. Jerry Lawler (4/5/82)
The David Letterman Show (7/28/82)
$5000 Bounty
Andy Kaufman’s Studio Debut (7/9/83)
Andy Kaufman & Jimmy Hart vs. Jerry Lawler (7/4/83 TV recap)
Andy Kaufman & Jerry Lawler vs. Jimmy Hart & The Assassin (7/18/83)
Andy Kaufman & Jimmy Hart Reunited (7/23/83)
Fireball (7/23/83)
Fireball Reactions
Andy Kaufman’s Helpful Hints
Jerry Lawler Interview
Andy Kaufman vs. Jerry Lawler (Boxing Match) (11/4/83)
Andy Has Cancer
Jerry Lawler on Andy Kaufman’s Death

Bill, Buddy & Dutch:
Bill Dundee’s Celebration
A Date with Buddy Landel
Bill Dundee-Koko Ware Feud Recap
Bill Dundee + The Fantastics
Bill Dundee & Dutch Mantel vs. Tracy Smothers & Dirty Rhodes
Jerry Lawler Promo
Buddy Landel, the Uncrowned Champion
Miscommunication
Betrayal
Bill & Buddy Promo
Dutch Mantel Interview
Jeff Jarrett, Referee
Dutch Mantel calls Jerry Lawler
Jerry Lawler Promo
The Bill and Buddy Show

Randy Savage:
Randy Savage
Studio Debut (1983)
“Lawler’s Dad Is Dead” (12/83)
Cage Match Hype (12/83)
“Fame”
Randy Savage joins the First Family (2/84)
Randy Savage Promo (9/84)
Randy Savage Interview (10/84)
Jimmy Suzuki (4/6/85)
Jerry Lawler Promo (4/21/85)
Randy Savage Goes Berserk (4/21/85)
Randy Savage & Dr. D (5/4/85)
Loser Leaves Town Hype (6/85)

Disc 11
Memphis Extras 2
Fabulous:
Introducing The Fabulous Ones
Jackie Fargo talks about Roughhouse Fargo
Music Video (Only the Lucky Ones)
Music Video (Keep Me Satisfied)
Music Video (If Looks Could Kill)
Fabulous Ones News feature
Jackie Fargo & Stan Lane vs. The Moondogs (5/9/83)
Fabulous Ones vs. Bruise Brothers (10/1/83)
Fabulous Ones Interview (12/83)
Jackie Fargo Promo (Fabulous Ones Leave Memphis)
Introducing the New Fabulous Ones
Music Video (Footloose)
Tommy Rich & Eddie Gilbert Interview (4/84)
New Fabulous ones vs. PYTs (Studio) (5/84)
New Fabulous Ones vs. PYTs (Louisville) (5/84)
Jackie Fargo Promo (Jimmy Hart) (8/84)
Whips (5/4/85)
Jackie Fargo Promo (Tux Newman) (5/4/85)
Music Video (Born In the USA)
Fabulous Ones vs. Sheepherders Music Video (The Heat Is On)

Loser Leaves Town Hype 1983:
Jerry Lawler Interview
Bill Dundee Takes the Night Off
Bill Dundee Interview
Bill Dundee’s Workout
Eye of the Tiger
“Jerry Lawler Singing Jerry Lawler”
Hit Me With Your Best Shot/ Bad Reputation

Loser Leaves Town Hype 1985:
Jerry Lawler is Drunk
The Hawaiian Flash
Burning Heart
Wild Boys

Jerry Lawler vs. Austin Idol & Tommy Rich
Jerry Lawler vs. Tommy Rich (Clips) (12/29/86)
Jerry Lawler vs. Austin Idol (1/11/87)
Jerry’s Doctor
Tommy Rich & Austin Idol Promo
Jerry’s Doctor
Jerry Lawler Phone Interview
Jerry Lawler Interview/ Austin Idol & Tommy Rich
Promo/ Nick Bockwinkel Promo
Jerry Lawler vs. Austin Idol (Chain Match) (4/20/87)
Post Match Interviews (4/20/87)
The Famous Final Scene

Famous Moments
Jerry Lawler vs. Curt Hennig Hype (1988)
Brickhouse Brown vs. Stud Stable Recap (8/28/88)
Battle Royal (2/4/89)
Kerry Von Erich’s Jacket (2/11/89)

Disc 12
Memphis Extras 3
The Jerry Lawler Show
Austin Idol (1983)
Koko Ware & Dutch Mantel (1983)
Lily Butler Interview (1983)
Lance Russell Interview (1983)
Special Olympics (1984)
Tommy Rich Interview (1984)
Jerry Lawler Viewer Mail (1984)
Kareem Muhammad Show (1985)
Two Year Anniversary Celebration (1985)
Brickhouse Brown Interview (1987)

The Gilbert Family
Eddie Gilbert vs. Ken Raper (3/19/88)
The Parking Lot (3/26/88) (2 titles)
Doug Gilbert + Eddy Marlin (4/2/88)
Eddie Marlin Cowboy Boot Challenge (4/2/88)
Jerry Lawler vs. Scott Levy (4/9/88)
Eddie Gilbert Promo (4/9/88)

More Memphis Moments
Tommy Rich’s Mother (11/22/80)
Austin Idol Promo (2/2/81)
Diamante ***** (2/81)
Dutch Mantel Interview (5/81)
Miss Macho Man (ICW 1981)
Sonny King & Jerry Lawler Interviews (4/17/82)
Stan Hansen Promo (9/17/83)
Paul Diamond Interview (3/22/86)
JD Costello at the Salon (7/26/86)
Tommy Rich vs. Keith Roberson (9/27/86)
Introducing Boy Tony (10/4/86)
Tracy Smothers, Valet for a Day (1/10/87)
Jerry Lawler’s Hit List (8/8/87)
Big Bubba Dancing (9/5/87)
Brickhouse Brown Interview (4/88)
Curt Hennig Goes Crazy (5/28/88)
Master of Pain vs. Humongous (4/89)
Metal Ed Promo (7/22/89)

Music Videos
Jerry Lawler (My Way)
Jimmy Valiant (Boy From New York City)
Jerry Lawler vs. Dutch Mantel (The Winner Takes It All)
Jerry Lawler vs. Nick Bockwinkel (Winning)
Koko Ware & Dutch Mantel (We Are the Champions)
Bruise Brothers (Soul Man)
New Generation (Let’s Hear It for the Boy)
Harley Davidson & Dirty Rhodes (Let’s Hear It for the Boy)
Rock N Roll Express (Jump)
Dirty White Boys (Dirty White Boy)
Eddie Gilbert (Hot Stuff)
Randy Savage & Lanny Poffo (State of Shock)
Jerry Lawler (The Warrior)
Louisville Sluggers (Look Out for #1)
Randy Savage (War Machine)
Koko Ware (The Bird)
Austin Idol (The Kid is Hot Tonight)
Austin Idol (Holding Out for a Hero)
Tracy Smothers (When the Going Gets Tough)
Soul Train Jones (Living In America)
Jeff Jarrett (Dreams)
Jerry Lawler (Turn the Page)
Bill Dundee (Gypsies on Parade)
Jerry Lawler (Wanted Dead or Alive)
Freddy (Do the Freddie)

Disc 13
The First Family
1981
Jimmy Hart Retirement Recap (5/81)
Jimmy Hart + Jimmy Kent (5/81)
First Family Picnic (6/20/81)
The New Southern Champion (6/27/81)
” We Are Family” (6/27/81)
Jimmy Hart vs. Jerry Lawler (Arena Highlights) (6/29/81)
First Family Interview (7/81)
Buddy Wayne vs. Jerry Lawler (7/25/81)
Tarred and Feathered (8/1/81)
Tarred and Feathered (8/8/81)
Jimmy Hart + Steve Keirn (8/15/81)
“Alley Oop” (8/22/81)
Oldies Medley Music Video (Jerry Lawler vs. Jimmy Hart feud) (9/81)
Koko Ware + First Family (9/12/81)
Rick Gibson vs. Nightmare & Speed (9/26/81)
Jimmy Hart + Tojo Yamamoto (10/3/81)
Jimmy Hart + Tojo Yamamoto (10/10/81)
Dutch Mantel vs. The Shadow / “Big Bird” (10/31/81)
Jerry Lawler vs. Super Destroyer Feud (11/81)
Jimmy Hart vs. Dennis Upton (12/26/81)

1982-85
Stan Lane quits the First Family (1/23/82)
Ricky Gibson Interview / The First Familly attacks Robert Gibson (4/17/82)
New York Dolls (9/82)
Jerry Lawler vs. Jim Cornette & Jimmy Hart (4/18/83)
Stagger Lee Unmasks (9/10/83)
Jesse Ventura Phone Call (9/17/83)
Moondogs + Bill Dundee (10/22/83)
Death of the Bruise Brothers (1/84)
“You Always Hurt the One You Love”
Jerry Lawler Interview + Jimmy Hart & King Kong Bundy Promos (5/84)
Jimmy Hart, Rick Rude and King Kong Bundy Interview (8/84)
Rick Rude + Lawler’s windshield (8/84)
Jerry Jarrett Interview (9/84)
Eddie Gilbert + Jimmmy Hart + Dutch Mantel (9/22/84)
Eggs (10/84)
Jimmy Hart Jr. (10/84)
Jimmy Hart vs. Rick Rude (10/84)
Jerry Lawler vs. Eddie Gilbert (Jimmy Hart Leaves Town Highlights) (2/11/85)

Disc 14
More Memphis Extras Disc 1
Joe LeDuc:
Joe LeDuc Special
Joe LeDuc vs. Jerry Lawler (Arm Wrestling)

Brickhouse Brown:
Brickhouse Brown, Heel Referee (6/20/87)
Brickhouse Brown Interview (7/4/87)
Brickhouse Brown & Don Bass vs. Jerry Lawler & Rocky Johnson (Cage Match Clips) (7/26/87)
The Commission (8/1/87)
The Commission (8/8/87)
Brickhouse Brown + Max Pain (5/28/88)
Brickhouse Brown & Brother Ernest Angel (6/12/88)
BRickhouse Brown leaves the Stud Stable (Complete Whipping Angle) (8/20/88)
Brickhouse Brown Interview & Video (8/28/88)
Brickhouse Brown’s Contract (10/1/88)
The Blackbirds w/ Reggie B Fine (1989)

Hector Guerrero:
Hector Guerrero & Dr. D (10/17/87)
Dr. D vs. Jim Jamison (10/24/87)
Hector Guerrero + Jerry Lawler (10/31/87)
Hector Guerrero & Dr. D vs. Memphis Vice (10/31/87)
Bill Dundee Post Match Interview (10/31/87)
Mexican Connection Promo
Mexican Connection Interview (11/7/87)
Mexican Connection Interview (Peppers) (11/14/87)
Mexican Connection + Bill Dundee (11/14/87)
Mexican Connection Party (11/21/87)
Mexican Connection vs. Nasty Boys (11/21/87)
Mexican Connection + Bill Dundee (11/21/87)
Hector Guerrero plays the guitar (11/28/87)
Hector Guerrero + Billy Travis (12/6/87)
The Piñata

Stud Stable:
Robert Fuller & Jimmy Golden attack Jeff Jarrett (5/21/88)
Stud Stable Debuts (5/28/88)
Stud Stable baseball (6/12/88)
Robert Fuller in a Wheelchair (8/20/88)
Bill Dundee vs. Phil Hickerson (8/20/88)
Stud Stable Interview (8/27/88)
Bill Dundee & Jeff Jarrett vs. Cactus Jack & Gary Young (8/27/88)
Bill Dundee & Jeff Jarrett Interview (8/27/88)
Robert Fuller vs. Bill Dundee (9/5/88)
Bill Dundee Interview (9/11/88)
Stud Stable Interview (9/25/88)
Robert Fuller vs. Jarrett Family Ownership Feud (April 1989)

Disc 15
More Memphis Extras Disc 2
Matches:
Battle Royal (11/22/80)
Jerry Lawler vs. Hulk Hogan (Arena Clips) (2/9/81)
Norvell Austin vs. Steve Keirn (2/27/82) (2 parts)
Al Snow & Big Boy Williams vs. Ronnie Garvin & Hoot Gibson (1982)
Jerry Lawler, Terry Funk & Sweet Brown Sugar vs. Jesse Barr & The Masked Marauders (1/29/83)
Rock N Roll Express vs. Norvell Austin & Dennis Condrey (10/8/83)
The Assassins vs. Reed & Raper (10/12/83)
Bill Dundee vs. Dan Donovan (11/12/83)
Jerry Lawler vs. Buddy Landel (11/19/83)
Tommy Rich & Eddie Gilbert vs. Rick Rude & Jim Neidhart (4/23/84)
Rock N Roll Express vs. Phil Hickerson & The Spoiler (8/4/84)
Taras Bulba vs. Shawn O’Reilly (1985)
Jerry Lawler & Plowboy Frazier vs. Memphis Vice (7/26/86)
Jerry Lawler vs. Torch/Flame/Fire (9/20/86) (2 parts)
Battle Royal (11/8/86) (2 parts)
Jeff Jarrett vs. Ronnie Gossett (9/18/89)
Jerry Lawler vs. Buddy Landel (9/30/89)

Promos & Interviews:
Ronnie Garvin (on Pez Watley) (ICW 1981)
Ronnie Garvin (on Ox Baker) (ICW 1981)
Billy Travis, The New PYT (5/11/85)
Austin Idol D-Day Promo (1985)
Mod Squad Debut Promo (2/22/86)
Dirty Rhodes (3/22/86)
Boy Tony Vignettes (1986) (2 parts)
Bam Bam Bigelow Debut (6/86)
Wheel of Torture (9/5/87)
Jerry Lawler & Bill Dundee Interview (10/14/87)
Mark Guleen & Teijo Khan (1987) (2 parts)
Tommy Rich & Buddy Landel (9/11/88)
Beauty & The Beast Vignettes (1988) (5 parts)
Jerry Lawler Promos (5/89) (2 parts)
Ronnie Gossett Promo (9/9/89)
Jerry Lawler w/ Bill Dundee, Dustin Rhodes & Rock N Roll Express (9/30/89)

Music Videos:
Terry Taylor (Someday the Diamond)
Bobby Eaton (Bad to the Bone)
Stagger Lee (Stagger Lee)
Austin Idol (Do You Wanna Touch)
Lanny Poffo & Rip Rogers (Eye of the Tiger)
Harley Davidson (Born to be Wild)
Bruiser Brody (Problem Child)
Jimmy Valiant (Life’s Been Good)
Bill Dundee (All My Rowdy Friends)
Tommy Wright (Turn Me Loose)
Jerry Lawler (Goin’ Crazy)
Jerry Lawler & Bill Dundee (Bad)
Jeff Jarrett (1980s Medley)
Mason Dixon Connection (Wild Streak)
Jerry Lawler & Austin Idol (Wild is the Wind)
Humongous (War Machine)
Chris Champion (Wild Side)
Soul Taker (Bang Your Head)

Disc 16
More Memphis Extras Disc 3
Angles & Confrontations:
Jerry Lawler Contract Signing (6/7/80)
Bobby Eaton + Koko Ware Break-Up (1/15/83)
Eddie Gilbert’s Army (2/2/85)
Phil Hickerson + Freedom Fighters (12/85)
New Zealand Death Box (11/30/86)
Soul Train Jones + Jonathan Boyd (1/24/87)
Downtown Bruno + Cake (1/31/87)
Big Bubba + Rocky Johnson Dance Off (9/26/87)
Jimmy Jack Funk + Jeff Jarrett (11/21/87)
Downtown Bruno Returns (4/23/88)

Friends:
Tommy Rich + Dutch Mantel (1984)
Jeff Jarrett + Tojo Yamamoto (1985, 1987)
Bill Dundee + George Barnes (1987)
Dutch Mantel + Texas Dirt (1989)

The Jerry Lawler Show:
Jim Cornette (1983)
Fabulous Ones Viewer Mail (1983)
Memphis Interview Bloopers (1983)
Jimmy Hart Heel Interview (1983)
Bruise Brothers Heel interview (1983)
Jimmy Valiant and Dave Brown (1983)
Bill Dundee Viewer Mail (1983)
Mother’s Day Interview (1984)
Jimmy Valiant Viewer Mail (1984)
Randy Savage Viewer Mail (1984)
Dutch Mantel Interview (1986)
Philly Fans (1987)
Father Tormenta Special (1987)

Special Moments:
Jimmy Valiant Commercial
Lance Russell Interview (Randy Hales Show) (1983)
Lance Russell Shill
Jerry Lawler Commercials
Louisville Wrestling News Story (1987)
Jerry Bryant Tribute (1989)


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

Watched Punk vs Taker @ WM 29 for the first time since I saw it live. I'm giving it a solid ***1/4. The beginning was really good but then we got to a sloppy, weird, and somewhat dull middle, and finally we got to the ending which was just plain bad. I don't see what people see in this match. Punk was never a legit threat going into the match and he was made into Taker's bitch in the match.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Goldust & Stardust def. (pin) Jey Uso (c) & Jimmy Uso (c) ***1/4
Sheamus (c) def. (pin) Cesaro ****
The Miz def. (pin) Dolph Ziggler (c) **1/2
Seth Rollins def. (forfeit) Roman Reigns n/a
Dean Ambrose draw (nc) Seth Rollins n/a
Rusev def. (sub) Mark Henry *1/4
Randy Orton def. (pin) Chris Jericho ****
A.J. Lee def. (sub) Paige (c), Nikki Bella **1/4
John Cena def. (dq) Brock Lesnar (c) ***1/2

Meltzer

gotta rewatch Orton/Jericho because I was really tired when it happened (plus some users on here rated it well)


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Orton/Jericho at ****? I thought it was the most pedestrian match ever.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Meltzer overrated the holy crap out of Orton/Jericho, Jesus Christ. That match was just a whole bunch of nothing tbf. Yeah the match "technically" was good (even if the first half was slow as all hell) and I cheer the effort put in by Orton (and more or less Jericho) for a match that had barely to no heat, but really, that very last statement shows exactly why it was such a nothing match. I thought Orton/Reigns was better than it, for fucks sake. Orton has a better match with ROMAN REIGNS than with 2014 Jericho (even if I have both at the same rating of ***).

I do applaud his Sheamus/Cesaro rating, though (even if I think he overrated it as well, but with just a 1/4* difference so you get my point).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brye said:


> Orton/Jericho at ****? I thought it was the most pedestrian match ever.


Thought that myself for the most part TBH, thought it rather labored along until a good finishing stretch. Didn't like the finish either.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

So I re-watched Piper/Valentine Dog Collar for like the billionth time, does anyone else have it *******? I just love this match so freaking much. It's the GOAT collar match imo.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Is that Memphis DVD set available for sale anywhere?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> So I re-watched Piper/Valentine Dog Collar for like the billionth time, does anyone else have it *******? I just love this match so freaking much. It's the GOAT collar match imo.


I have it at ***** as well. It makes my personal top 10 from the 1980s (US only, and only from what I've seen which isn't nearly enough). I think it's just the perfect match, so unbelievably brutal and my god is the selling ever great. That's one of those matches I can watch again and again and never, ever get tired of.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Fully Loaded 1998:*

Val Venis vs Jeff Jarrett - NO!
D'Lo Brown vs X-Pac - ★★
Farooq & Scorpio vs Bradshaw & Terry Funk - ★★¼
Mark Henry vs Vader - ★★ (lol @ Mizark botching the first move)
DOA vs LOD 2k - NO!
Owen Hart vs Ken Shamrock - ★★★ (Extremely fun sprint in a fucking basement!)
The Rock vs Triple H - ★★¾
Stone Cold & Undertaker vs Kane & Mankind - ★★¼

Clearly they just wanted to get to SummerSlam quickly when this show took place as the main event is more suitable for Raw rather than a PPV.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

Sad for Shamrock. He was probably 2nd most over male superstar of late 97-early 98. And then he turned heel in late 98, and became irrelevant and VERY hated. It's like the Maivia hate was transferred to him lmfao. 

I'd say you got through the dog days of 98 C2D. WM - SS was a bore IMO. SS - the end is miles better.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah, they were kind of coasting in those few months between the two big shows. But at the same time, there were so much fun stuff on TV which just tells you the difference between now and then. Today when the company is "coasting", the product is so bad that it's torturous to whoever watching. In 1998, the weeklies are still fun to go through.

I definitely expect things to get better as The Rock rises to prominence and starts challenging Austin for the #1 position. DX have been entertaining in their own right (that Nation parody is an all time classic!) but Rock is the ruler of the midcard at this point. Have never seen the ladder match with HHH and this will be my first. Really looking forward to it as it is the first time when the crowd truly starts appreciating The Rock.

Can't really figure out what's happened with Shamrock. He wins King of the Ring and instead becomes more irrelevant going forward. Even after being screwed over from the IC title, he wont win it until later.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Yeah, they were kind of coasting in those few months between the two big shows. But at the same time, there were so much fun stuff on TV which just tells you the difference between now and then. Today when the company is "coasting", the product is so bad that it's torturous to whoever watching. In 1998, the weeklies are still fun to go through.
> 
> I definitely expect things to get better as The Rock rises to prominence and starts challenging Austin for the #1 position. DX have been entertaining in their own right (that Nation parody is an all time classic!) but Rock is the ruler of the midcard at this point. Have never seen the ladder match with HHH and this will be my first. Really looking forward to it as it is the first time when the crowd truly starts appreciating The Rock.
> 
> Can't really figure out what's happened with Shamrock. He wins King of the Ring and instead becomes more irrelevant going forward. Even after being screwed over from the IC title, he wont win it until later.



You've never seen Rocky/Trips Ladder match?! Really? Damn, especially knowing how your a fan of the Rock that's surprising, I personally think you'll dig it. It gets shit on a lot but I personally think it's a damn fine match. There aren't a ton of "high spots" or crazy spots with guys falling off the ladder, but there IS a lot of brutal looking stuff where they use the ladder as a weapon, especially the different ways they slam each other on it.

I think the Shamrock/Owen "Lions Den" match steals the show and is my personal MotN for SS 1998. Have you seen that one before?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Nah, only seen Austin/Taker once before from SS 1998. Thought it's a solid match even with Austin getting knocked out early from the head bump with Taker. Was meant to watch Rock/HHH a couple of years ago but something else came up when I was about to start so I had to postpone it. Ever since I started watching the AE, I decided to save it for when I reach the event itself.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

The opener is quite good also, Venis vs D Lo. Probably one of the best matches of both of their careers. In fact it might be lol.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

DoubtGin said:


> Randy Orton def. (pin) Chris Jericho ******
> 
> Meltzer
> 
> gotta rewatch Orton/Jericho because I was really tired when it happened (plus some users on here rated it well)


what the fuck. The match is hardly a **3/4 in my opinion. **** my ass.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Spoiler: NXT Tapings



Prince Devitt aka Finn Balor


 debuted on the NXT tapings. It was the last episode, though, so it will air in about 7 weeks.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

DoubtGin said:


> Spoiler: NXT Tapings
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's fine by me. :mark:


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Meltzer has a huge boner for Orton lately! He gave his match with Reigns at SS **** as well. Although I won't complain, as I enjoyed both matches. Just a tad high on both though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Is that Memphis DVD set available for sale anywhere?


As you are in the US (I think) you can grab it directly from Goodhelmet. I'll rep you his email later.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't know if this stuff is OK to talk about in the open any more, but goodhelmet ships practically worldwide.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Just an FYI, after I finish up September 2006 for my various indy reviews, I'm doing a Kurt Angle in WWE project to prepare myself for his TNA debut that month.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I suggest you check pretty much 97% of his 2001 run (which includes his greatest match ever and a GOAT WWE Title match contender), every match against Brock Lesnar and pretty much every non-FL 2000 match against Taker. Angle is the ultimate hit or miss case of the decade, but when he's a hit, he's damn near untouchable. Shame his lazyness beats him to reach that level.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think Kurt Angle would be my choice for best wrestler in 2002.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Week to week, or PPV to PPV?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

WWE only. Week to week. Although I base my view on quantity as much as I do on quality. Considering that Benoit, Eddie, Mysterio, and Lesnar didn't wrestle the full year, I can't call them the "wrestler of the year", although I think I still like Angle's 2002 more than theirs if you disregard quantity. Also worth noting that I irrationally love Angle/Edge at Backlash.


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

Big show vs Rusev on SD this friday.
Not bad and a sunset flip from the Giant!! Rusev is an intense sob. He is becoming my favorite seller.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Damn, I think I might watch Smackdown tonight. Card looks pretty darn appealing.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I think the last thing I'd call Kurt Angle out for is laziness.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Considering that Benoit, Eddie, Mysterio, and Lesnar didn't wrestle the full year, I can't call them the "wrestler of the year"


Curious, do you have this mindset all of the time, or just use it as sort of a tiebreaker?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, lazyness as in working over rather formulaic matches w/not much care for storytelling or his own finishers. Otherwise, there's a reason why the guy is a damn near cripple - physically, everybody knows the guy is a fucking machine.

Btw ff, I'm also a fan of Angle/Edge from Backlash 2002, though I do like their Judgment Day match better for sure. And as far as 2002 is concerned, WOTY is probably either Lesnar or Taker for me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

How about The Rock's PPV year in 2002. RR, WM, Vengeance and Summerslam, all classics in their own way imo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aye Rock had a pretty good PPV year in 2002 for the whole 5 PPV's he was on  (You forgot the Undertaker match which is fucking GREAT dammit).


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Taker/Rock NWO felt kinda rushed to me tbf. But Cal gonna Cal, ain't dat right? I'm honestly shocked he actually gave the HHH and Bossman stuff DUD's :side:

Oh yeah, have you finished Vengeance yet? 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Vengeance? Uhhhh... sure... it's right here... I'll just post it... in about 2 hours :side:.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Even though he only wrestled for 9 months or so of 2002, that's still enough for me to crown Eddie the best of 2002. He has on fire that year. He got 3 GREAT matches out of RVD (Backlash, JD, Raw Ladder match), 2 really good and 1 GREAT match out of Edge, the good tag bouts with Chavo, the classic match with Benoit at Armageddon....yea I'd say 2002 belongs to Eddie I think, no one else is really coming to mind tbh, that's not a year that was really dominated from January to December by anyone.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I can't blame Cal one bit for not finishing Vengeance. :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Bryan Danielson vs. AJ Styles vs. Samoa Joe (IWA Mid South 09.18.2004)*

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/indy-...-iwa-mid-south-09-18-2004-a.html#post40056193

Great triple threat.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

^ Punk vs. Aries from that same tournament is pretty awesome too.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

I really really liked the Big Show vs Rusev match from this week's Smackdown.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Lex Luger just beat Hollywood Hogan and won the WCW Championship!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The one time where there was NWO interference, and the ref let the match continue lol.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Brock said:


> *Bryan Danielson vs. AJ Styles vs. Samoa Joe (IWA Mid South 09.18.2004)*
> 
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/indy-...-iwa-mid-south-09-18-2004-a.html#post40056193
> 
> Great triple threat.


One of my favorite triple threats ever because they don't just throw one guy out of the ring and have him lay there for 5 minutes. There are legit chain wrestling segments with all 3 guys. 



Jack Evans 187 said:


> ^ Punk vs. Aries from that same tournament is pretty awesome too.


I've only seen Night 2 of the tournament and it's pretty great. If Night 1 is half of what Night 2 is I agree with it being one of the best indy tournaments ever.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Honestly, really enjoyed the wrestling on Smackdown.

The Tag Title match was again, really good. The IC Title match was good for what it was and the time it was given (they're undoubtedly going to get a longer form match on Raw or PPV), and Rusev/Show was really enjoyable stuff, too.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Meltzer just gave this match 5 stars, I figured I'd post it and see what everyone else thinks. It's not as long as the clip suggests, there is a 5 minute build-up video at the start and a lot of hullabaloo after the match, so it's only about 18-20 min total. Pretty rad match, Tanahashi is pretty damn amazing.

Tanahashi vs Shibata 9/21/14 NJPW "Destruction in Kobe"

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x26ed7t_hiroshi-tanahashi-vs-katsuyori-shibata_sport


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Even though he only wrestled for 9 months or so of 2002, that's still enough for me to crown Eddie the best of 2002. He has on fire that year. He got 3 GREAT matches out of RVD (Backlash, JD, Raw Ladder match), 2 really good and 1 GREAT match out of Edge, the good tag bouts with Chavo, the classic match with Benoit at Armageddon....yea I'd say 2002 belongs to Eddie I think, no one else is really coming to mind tbh, that's not a year that was really dominated from January to December by anyone.


What about the Game, brother? Truly on fire with his in-ring performances all year.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Spoiler: Smackdown



Rusev/Big Show is awesome. :mark:

Rusev might be my favorite wrestler in the ring right now, other than Ambrose. He's blown my expectations of him out of the water.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Meltzer just gave this match 5 stars, I figured I'd post it and see what everyone else thinks. It's not as long as the clip suggests, there is a 5 minute build-up video at the start and a lot of hullabaloo after the match, so it's only about 18-20 min total. Pretty rad match, Tanahashi is pretty damn amazing.
> 
> Tanahashi vs Shibata 9/21/14 NJPW "Destruction in Kobe"
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x26ed7t_hiroshi-tanahashi-vs-katsuyori-shibata_sport


I really liked that match, I'd give it **** 3/4. There was just something that didn't say *****, but by all means, it was a great match. I really liked the Shibata guy aswell, I was rooting for him (I knew nothing about the storylines, so maybe that would help) and was legit :mark:ing out when he took control.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Super Sonic said:


> What about the Game, brother? Truly on fire with his in-ring performances all year.


I'm a fan of Hunters work in 2000-2001, I really am. He was great more often than not through that year and a half before he got injured. But honestly as I'm thinking right now, I can't think of one single match from his return in 2002 that was great. He had a bad match at WM vs Jericho, a bad match vs Hogan at BL, a decent match vs Jericho at JD, a bad match vs Shawn at SS (granted it wasn't Hunters fault at all, he was tremendous in that match it's 100% on Shawn for no selling and being such a retard). Those are the only matches of his from 2002 I can think of off the top of my head. If I'm being an idiot an have forgotten some awesome matches from him by all means please point it out. 

Oh yea didn't he have a very "meh" No DQ match vs Angle that year as well?




Ad Infinitum said:


> I really liked that match, I'd give it **** 3/4. There was just something that didn't say *****, but by all means, it was a great match. I really liked the Shibata guy aswell, I was rooting for him (I knew nothing about the storylines, so maybe that would help) and was legit :mark:ing out when he took control.


Glad you enjoyed it dude. I think I'd give it around ****1/4 myself, maybe I need to rewatch it but I just didn't see anything that would make me consider it a "classic", which is what any match rated over ****1/2+ should be IMO. It's still a really fucking great match though. I really haven't seen too much Shibata, only his matches with Ishii and Tanahashi this year at G1.

If you dug Shibata and want to see another famous match of his, check out Shibata vs Ishii at the 2013 G1 Climax. Meltzer awarded that match 5-stars as well. I've become a pretty big fan of Ishii's work, he churns out consistently GREAT matches with just about everyone. He's just this sawed off, pissed off, pit bull of a wrestler. Imagine a Japanese version of Tazz but if Tazz was actually one of the worlds best workers. That's kinda the deal with Ishii, he's not to be fucked with in anyway, shape, or form.

Edit: here I'll just be a sport and link you to Ishii vs Shibata in case your interested in watching it, it's a pretty short bout, like 13-14 minutes, but man is it ever action packed: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1...mohiro-ishii-njpw-g1-climax-23-08-04-13_sport


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Curious, do you have this mindset all of the time, or just use it as sort of a tiebreaker?


Almost all of the time, with the one exception off the top of my head being 2007 because all the great workers that year got injured in some capacity. I put a lot of emphasis on the "year" portion of that statement.

I actually think the Tanahashi/Shibata G1 Climax match was better than the recent bout. ****1/4 sounds about right. Ishii is worker of the year so far. Dean needs to make up for lost time.

I think I like more matches from Khali in 2007 than I do from Triple H in 2002. Or was it 2003 where I felt this way. I'm not sure, but one of those years was just pure stinky. Actually both.


----------



## GREEK FREAK (May 17, 2012)

Just got the new Sting DVD :mark:

Can't wait to watch it


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao My mother (who is not a wrestling fan) is watching Smackdown. On four different occasions, she thought Cesaro killed Ziggler.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

2002 and 03 are both pretty shitty for Hunter tbh, and the summerslam match w/ Michaels actually went up a for me on last watch. I was doing a 2002 thingy that I stopped and Taker/Rocky/RVD were killing it



Also that Tenay jazz :dance2 awesome


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Angle and Taker were just on another level in 02 for different reasons. Kurt Angle was just a quality factory churning out very good and even multiple classics and it didn't matter if it was a debuting, green Cena, the Los Guerreros, Mysterio, Taker etc. Angle was in the zone in singles and later on in tags with Benoit. SS vs Mysterio, the somewhat revolutionary to american tag formatting classic w/ Benoit at NWO 02, the Vengance triple threat, some of those Los Guerrero matches hell in WWE's canon even Cena's debut all may vary in quality but are classics to WWE.

Taker was putting on a clinic in being a heel big man with his mannerisms and ref interactions/balancing dirt/non redeemable wrestling with the classic Taker power predator style. His cat. may not match Kurt's, but he had some classics that year sharing the Vengance triple threat, obviously launched Jeff Hardy in the ladder match, the Lesnar HIAC. Where Taker also shines is his working feats that year, making a watchable feud out of MAVEN, guiding a good match out of a quite young and really green rookie Orton, as I said launching Jeff Hardy as a plausible solo star as Jeff recently acknowledged on Talk is Jericho, pretty good match out of an aged Ric Flair whose confidence was shot and didn't regain his elite form until well later, solid match out of solo Test (ok Test could be decent so perhaps this isn't as good of a feat). 

I'm a bit bias to Taker since he when on is one of my favorites to watch and as a studier of the craft one of my favorite fighters in recent wrestling history and I don't always care for Angle's formula and lapses in wrestling fundamentals, so I'll disqualify myself from a pick and just say I personally feel it is between those two.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

All this 2002 talk makes me want to rewatch that year. Can't wait to rewitness the dichotomy between RAW and Smackdown. Also worth revisiting the Smackdown Six. And who would refuse the advances of Goldust?

Smackdown was very good tonight. Go watch it. Four good matches.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> All this 2002 talk makes me want to rewatch that year. Can't wait to rewitness the dichotomy between RAW and Smackdown. Also worth revisiting the Smackdown Six. And who would refuse the advances of Goldust?
> 
> Smackdown was very good tonight. Go watch it. Four good matches.



Dude Smackdown from 2002-2003 is just about the perfect wrestling show. Raw is SO bad for the most part too which makes the contrast that much more stark. Anyone that says Vince doesn't let ego get in the way of business decisions is lying, because a real businessman would see the absolute MAGIC Paul E. brought to Smackdown as the head writer and do everything in his power to keep him in charge. Smackdown consistently trounced Raw in the ratings back then, which is amazing considering it was always treated like the "B" show. Vince just couldn't handle that this loud mouthed Jew from the Bronx was taking the "B" squad and kicking his ass every week.

I was looking for something to watch so I decided to take a hint from FF and rewatch Angle/Edge Backlash. Yep, still absolutely awesome. Seeing a fired up Angle hit himself in the face with a chair never ceases to crack me up. That Kurt Angle heel character from around that time is one of my all time favorite characters in wrestling, he was just such a buffoon but man did he ever pull it off well. It takes skill to be that big of a geek and still remain credible, but Kurt pulled it off.

Angle/Edge BL 02': ****1/4


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Got sidetracked by putting in my two cents to the 2002 discussion, but damn in watching SD after having nothing going tonight man another solid performance from Rusev. I seem to be frequently typing about how he is obliterating my initial expectations. Tonight putting on a selling clinic gathering himself/disoriented look coming to from the KO punch was beautiful selling of Show's chest chop. Even the simple psychology of being sure to forgo his usual smashouth approach quickly and taking out the leg was nice. Two completely different styles and ways of using their skillset, different movesets and presentations and I don't wanna heap too much hype if Rusev flames out, but Rusev's skillset reminds me alot of young Lesnar. Both men have the ability to move like cruiserweights despite their 280 lb or so frame (two drastically different frames mind you);both men hold elite power that comes across the camera as such; Very few US workers historically match post UFC Lesnar in intensity but Rusev is near a young Brock's level, Rusev is really soaking up finer intangibles of the art aspects of wrestling like selling and psychology at a very accelerated rate despite inexperience just like a young Lesnar did. Rusev may not be the once in a generation wrestling athlete Lesnar is/was and isn't pulling a SSP, but he did pull a dropkick and is quite athletic. Rusev's churning out good/great matches at a nice clip and so was Lesnar. Rusev isn't going to be trading hold for hold with Bryan like Lesnar did with Benoit nor is Rusev going to be mixing chain and amateur wrestling with Angle nor does Rusev have near the expansive moveset, but the raw skillset reminds me alot of a young Brock.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

There is a really fun Street Fight between Undertaker and Big Show on the 1/3/2002 edition of Smackdown. Also on that episode is the famous Copa Cabana Rock promo and Flair going batshit insane. Good squash by Test against Tajiri and a fun Dudleys tag. MOTN is Angle/Jericho vs. RVD/Edge. And my goodness. RVD was super over. Louder pop than both Rock and Austin!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HHH has a good match with Lance Storm in 2002, and is involved in an 8 man tag that I think is really fun. I kinda liked the Angle match from (was it NWO?) as well. I don't think Trip is really any good that year, but it's hardly the abomination that his 2003 is.

Just watched a HHH v. Taker from Raw the night after SummerSlam 2002. Came off like a bunch of random nothing that I didn't know how to react to. I was just watching it blankly while they shifted from doing one thing to doing another thing, and I didn't care for almost any of the execution of any of it. Didn't really think Taker looked much better than HHH in it, either.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Please don't rewatch that Angle/HHH NWO 02 match. I don't want you to cry/cringe. Do watch these two matches:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> HHH has a good match with Lance Storm in 2002, and is involved in an 8 man tag that I think is really fun. I kinda liked the Angle match from (was it NWO?) as well. I don't think Trip is really any good that year, but it's hardly the abomination that his 2003 is.
> 
> Just watched a HHH v. Taker from Raw the night after SummerSlam 2002. Came off like a bunch of random nothing that I didn't know how to react to. I was just watching it blankly while they shifted from doing one thing to doing another thing, and I didn't care for almost any of the execution of any of it. Didn't really think Taker looked much better than HHH in it, either.


I hate those type of matches, the ones where you can't figure out wtf they are trying to do, it's like guy #1 takes a turn beating on guy #2, then at a random point they decide to trade places so guy #2 can beat on guy #1, rinse and repeat until you get your standard "WWE hot finishing stretch" and someone wins. Bleh. Those kind of matches seem to be occurring more frequently these days, but that could just be my pessimistic attitude toward today's WWE product than an actual fact.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Can't wait for a Show/Rusev rematch now. :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Those kind of matches happened so often in 2005 and 2006. I think all the OVW talents outside of Punk learned that style from whoever the trainers were at the time. Pretty much every match from Carlito, Masters, Kennedy, MVP, Nitro, and Lashley followed that formula. And then you had veterans like Edge, Helms, Orton, Cena, and Kane who were also guilty of that uninspired style at the time. Thank goodness that Finlay put the effort into making interesting control segments.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Masters definitely started off like that but got so much better. Can't say the same about MVP, Carlito or Lashley though. 

Morrison eventually fell out of that formula. And Kennedy had flashes where he did.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Masters is undoubtedly the greatest example of improvement in a wrestler. I swear to you, I am confident that Cal is a better wrestler than Masters was in his first stint. And then in his second stint, dude somehow turned into a masterpiece.

Morrison was a weird one. He started off with a bang via MNM. Great stuff. Then he had a very disappointing singles run on RAW where he clearly wasn't ready. Going to ECW and rebranding himself helped so much.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> HHH has a good match with Lance Storm in 2002, and is involved in an 8 man tag that I think is really fun. I kinda liked the Angle match from (was it NWO?) as well. I don't think Trip is really any good that year, but it's hardly the abomination that his 2003 is.
> 
> Just watched a HHH v. Taker from Raw the night after SummerSlam 2002. Came off like a bunch of random nothing that I didn't know how to react to. I was just watching it blankly while they shifted from doing one thing to doing another thing, and I didn't care for almost any of the execution of any of it. Didn't really think Taker looked much better than HHH in it, either.


HHH;s 03 was shudder inducing. HHH/Steiner at the Rumble both men extremely plauged by nagging injury is legitimately one of the worst major title matches that were seriously presented I have seen; in the ppv rematch, the match itself is corny and HHH is outperformed by Flair and Hebner (both men not in the match). The Nash trash, the seemingly endless series of bad to at best subpar broadway title defenses vs Goldberg including the weak link to a very solid Survivor Series ppv. That doesn't even account for the ggagantuan amount of product resources on RAW dedicated to HHH and a whole lot of mike time (bout a legit 8 minutes per show) only resulting in ONE entertaining promo where he made fun of sheriff Austin and all the while through the "HHH show" the guy sports a dumb looking bandage on his head and goes through a horrid Ric Flair impression. Only good I remember coming out of the Game that I remember seeing in that awful 03 known as the "HHH show" is a decent Backlash match, a pretty fun match vs Maven on Raw and admittedly a good match vs Flair on Raw (if that is the year I'm thinking the two had a good raw match may have been 05). I'd throw HHH's 03 as one of the worst years a franchise wrestler of a top company has had when present from January to December. Not even joking and I'm a longtime studier of the craft. Thankfully, HHH had a much improved 04 motivated with a tremendously superior cast and some of the best chemistry/opponents in HHH's career in Benoit matches.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Masters is undoubtedly the greatest example of improvement in a wrestler. I swear to you, I am confident that Cal is a better wrestler than Masters was in his first stint. And then in his second stint, dude somehow turned into a masterpiece.
> 
> Morrison was a weird one. He started off with a bang via MNM. Great stuff. Then he had a very disappointing singles run on RAW where he clearly wasn't ready. Going to ECW and rebranding himself helped do much.


Never seen Cal wrestle. For all I know he's better than Flair. :side:

Also I see what you did there with masterpiece. But it's true.

Yeah, Morrison's '06 singles run was just the same match over and over again. The name change changed up his whole style and it was awesome.

And holy fuck, those opening promos from Triple H in 2003. Every damn opening of Raw for like 20 minutes. I really do kinda hate 2003 Raw.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Again, Show vs. Rusev. :mark:



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Dude Smackdown from 2002-2003 is just about the perfect wrestling show. Raw is SO bad for the most part too which makes the contrast that much more stark. Anyone that says Vince doesn't let ego get in the way of business decisions is lying, because a real businessman would see the absolute MAGIC Paul E. brought to Smackdown as the head writer and do everything in his power to keep him in charge. Smackdown consistently trounced Raw in the ratings back then, which is amazing considering it was always treated like the "B" show. Vince just couldn't handle that this loud mouthed Jew from the Bronx was taking the "B" squad and kicking his ass every week.


When 2002/2003 SD is released on the Network, that's what my WWE Network viewings will be of, strictly.

But I always had this question: if Vince really wanted Raw to get the bigger ratings and truly be the "A" show, rather than Smackdown, why was he on Smackdown, pretty much weekly, back in 2003?

But, yeah, 2002-2003 Smackdown is my favourite wrestling show ever.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HHH's best 03 match would probably be the year end w/ Shawn. I think that's one of maybe four singles matches HHH had between mid-02 and mid-04 that I'd call actually '''good''.

I'm not sure any major company has has a world title run worse than HHH's 2nd WHC.



---------
Is there a way for a non-WWE Network guy to look at exactly what's available on the WWE Network?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't recall Hogan ever having a good title reign.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It is true. I'm a better wrestler than Flair.

I'll let you decide which one :side:.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, I watched Smackdown and I was very pleasantly surprised by how good it was... then I remembered it is being written by NXT guys, so the surprise was vanished . Ambrose/Miz was solid (no shocker since Ambrose can get something fun out of even current Kane, as proven on Raw), Battle Royal was fun, Ziggler/Cesaro was a nice sprint and a rematch at HIAC is pretty much a given mark, Dusts/Usos was good if not quite on NOC's level imo and Show/Rusev was everything I hoped a Show/Rusev match would be, really good stuff w/great selling and physicality, bad ending aside. I wished Henry/Rusev was better, but what do you know. 

It seems that Show really understands how to work big guy vs. big guy matches:
- the epic series against Taker, including a top 5 LMS match ever (nothing's ever beating HHH/Jericho, though);
- against Henry, the excellent Vengeance 2011 match and a few other good sprints or solidly worked stuff;
- against Lesnar, flawless chemistry with everything being good and a fucking Stretcher match at **** level;
- against Kane... well, their chemistry kinda sucks against each other (they're great as a team though), but fuck me, that Raw 2006 match was impressive;
- against Ryback, an incredibly fun fight that, imo, is probably Ryback's best non-Bryan, non-gimmick singles match ever (some prefer the Sheamus match w/is good too, but I enjoyed this more - as a matter of fact, this is basically the same case as the Rusev situation: Henry got the PPV stuff against Ryback (WM 29 and SVS 2013), yet Show delievered a far better match);
- against Batista, I remember a 2005 match that I liked, don't remember much from it but I remember liking it;
- against Sheamus, the 2012 series as everybody knows (especially the masterpiece known as HIAC 2012);
- hell, even Backlash '08 against Khali it was actually somewhat fun;
- and now against Rusev.

Can't remember any others but Show vs. big guy is usually guaranteed to be good stuff. Massive (pun intended) shame we never got to witness Show/Vader, Show/Bigelow or Show/Umaga. Those would've been absolutely stellar I presume.

EDIT: Btw, I'm going to do a confession: I never actually watched Cena, Ambrose & Reigns/Wyatts. How much STARZ~ is it worth for you guys?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Yeah1993 said:


> Is there a way for a non-WWE Network guy to look at exactly what's available on the WWE Network?



Good luck getting half this shit when it rolls over to Australia, though.

http://www.reddit.com/r/wwenetwork/wiki/wwe_network_shows


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Not exactly a match to be pimped, but watching the latest episode of NXT, I was very impressed by how Bayley led the whole match against a green Alexa Bliss, making her look good in the process 

Bayley is my favorite female worker in the E now undoubtedly.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Meltzer just gave this match 5 stars, I figured I'd post it and see what everyone else thinks. It's not as long as the clip suggests, there is a 5 minute build-up video at the start and a lot of hullabaloo after the match, so it's only about 18-20 min total. Pretty rad match, Tanahashi is pretty damn amazing.
> 
> Tanahashi vs Shibata 9/21/14 NJPW "Destruction in Kobe"
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x26ed7t_hiroshi-tanahashi-vs-katsuyori-shibata_sport




It helps more when you know the long history and real bad blood between the two guys. Shibata was seen as the next big star I think around 2004-5 but he left for MMA and Tanahashi became the top wrestling star in all of Japan. Then when Shibata came back, he had a lot of heat backstage from guys like Tana and Makabe. Tana also criticized Shibata's style of wrestling in his autobiography iirc.

Taking all that into account and their recent G1 match this year, the story kinda comes full circle here, which may have made Meltzer increase his rating slightly.

At his best, I think Tanahashi may be the best big match wrestler in the world today.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

The Tanahashi/Shibata match was amazing, but I wouldn't actually give them the full 5.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rah said:


> Good luck getting half this shit when it rolls over to Australia, though.
> 
> http://www.reddit.com/r/wwenetwork/wiki/wwe_network_shows


Thanks. Still needs more TV for me to consider it even remotely worth it. But hell my luck Australia will only get the rubbish like WWE 2K128 vs. ECW roster reveals and I'll miss out on all of the la Parka and TAKA Michinoku. I'm not even sure how this bloody network thing even works. Kinda confusing to me that they just didn't do a worldwide release where you can pay $10 a month to watch whatever you want online from a set of shit and then worry about other stuff later. I'm probably just too ignorant to the whole thing to even comment.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Or you haven't been paying attention to Michael Cole's instructions on how to use the Network.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cole gives instructions on how to use the Network? When? Must be like during a divas match or something that I normally skip cos I've never heard him :side:.

Currently on a pretty huge wrestling drought atm. Just can't be fucked with anything. Don't remember the last time I sat through a match on TV in WWE. Rarely watch more than 2 PPV matches these days. Haven't downloaded SD in about 2 months. Can't even finish up this 2007 PPV :lmao.

Instead the only wrestling I've watched recently has been documentaries/shoots, and Kane Vs Taker from WM 14 .


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Brock said:


> *Bryan Danielson vs. AJ Styles vs. Samoa Joe (IWA Mid South 09.18.2004)*
> 
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/indy-...-iwa-mid-south-09-18-2004-a.html#post40056193
> 
> Great triple threat.


Never actually seen this one, thank you.




The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Meltzer just gave this match 5 stars, I figured I'd post it and see what everyone else thinks. It's not as long as the clip suggests, there is a 5 minute build-up video at the start and a lot of hullabaloo after the match, so it's only about 18-20 min total. Pretty rad match, Tanahashi is pretty damn amazing.
> 
> Tanahashi vs Shibata 9/21/14 NJPW "Destruction in Kobe"
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x26ed7t_hiroshi-tanahashi-vs-katsuyori-shibata_sport


It helps when you know the backstory, and you shoud watch their 2006/1/4 match first (Shibata returns as a heel), then their G1 matches from 2013 & 14, and then this one. Trust me, I thought it was just good on the first watch, but then I came around, I talked about it here: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/39951754-post1257.html

Just a marvelous storytelling, but yeah, not *****worthy, however, I do see where BIG DAVE is coming from.


----------



## Terminator GR (Oct 3, 2007)

Sting DVD preview clip


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*30-Minute Ultimate Submission Match: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit (WWF Backlash 2001)*



****1/2​
Don't remember watching this before TBH, if i have i've forgotton lol. Loved every damn minute of it. Rating may be a bit high, but its just my sort of match. Puts me in the mood to go back to Volk Han now.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, that match rules. I have it at ****1/4 myself, but only because of the rather slow pace, because this match in a storytelling perspective is virtually flawless. Best Angle/Benoit match ever and it's not even remotely close (WM 17 is great too, but Backlash is on a whole another level). Angle puts on an EPIC heel performance (only second to SS 2001 as his best performance ever imo), and Benoit is Benoit and that's all you need to know. And it just so happens to take place in the same show as Raven/Rhyno and Powertrip/BOD :mark:.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Jericho-Regal is really good from that show too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

****3/4 for that Angle/Benoit match. Crazy that I might be the guy who rates it the highest, considering my dislike for Angle 99% of the time and most of their other matches together .


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

****1/4 for me.

I prefer their Rumble match.:usangle

****1/2 for Royal Rumble, **** for Wrestlamania and haven't seen any other matches between them.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Unforgiven 2002 match rules. I have no clue why people here don't like it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Unforgiven 2002 is very... movesy iirc. I liked it, more espefically the heel vs. heel aspect of it, but it's probably even less for certain people than the Rumble match.

And while on it seems that the Rumble match is SLOWLY gaining the people in this board over again. Lots of folks rating it high. I don't rate it extremely well, but I feel that around ***1/4 to ***1/2 is perfect for it. Now if only the HBK/Angle WM 21 match, as well as the Taker/HHH HIAC (especially this last one) also got those good reactions back .

Oh and, btw, rewatched their Cage match a while ago, and I ended up loving it for the same reasons I loved the WeeLC match: for how ridiculously over the top entertainment it was.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bangle cage match doesn't deserve to be mentioned along side the awesomely fun WeeLC match tbh.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

WeeLC was better (infinity stars match right there), sure, but FUCK YOU, Bangle Cage deserves to be mentioned alongside it indeed. I didn't even begun to care about storytelling and sound-selling in that match - it was so over-the-top and exaggerated w/its MOVEZ~ it was actually a blast, and wrestling is also about ENTERTAINMENT, so TO HELL WITH YA, man who can't finish watching Vengeance 2007!... can't believe I of all people am defending the Bangle Cage match :side:. One thing though - that match is the one match I don't think I can ever give a star rating to. I mean... what the hell do you give to a match THAT entertaining but at the same time THAT stupid? It's Cena/Wyatt LMS x100 in terms of "WTF".

Speaking of hilarious matches, any matches so entertaining for being so Goddamn horrible? Alike HHH/Steiner.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bangle cage match was boring.

Go watch that scaffold match that Austin was in. I think I remember watching a match in 2011 where Rosa Mendes botched standing.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

RAVEN said:


> It helps more when you know the long history and real bad blood between the two guys. Shibata was seen as the next big star I think around 2004-5 but he left for MMA and Tanahashi became the top wrestling star in all of Japan. Then when Shibata came back, he had a lot of heat backstage from guys like Tana and Makabe. Tana also criticized Shibata's style of wrestling in his autobiography iirc.
> 
> Taking all that into account and their recent G1 match this year, the story kinda comes full circle here, which may have made Meltzer increase his rating slightly.
> 
> At his best, I think Tanahashi may be the best big match wrestler in the world today.





Chismo said:


> Never actually seen this one, thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I actually read up on the story after I saw the match, I saw an article in the google search on Tanahashi called "The curse of strong style" or something and I read about his disdain for Shibata because he was "chosen" by Inoki or whatever then ditched the company for MMA when it wasn't doing well and now he has come back to NJPW now that they are a really hot company and a lot of guys including Tanahashi don't like it. Can't say I blame them.

Watching those forearm shots they throw, damn that's like 90-95% real in some cases, they knocked the shit out of each other. Great, great match though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Bangle cage match was boring.
> 
> Go watch that scaffold match that Austin was in. I think I remember watching a match in 2011 where Rosa Mendes botched standing.


Blasphemy on your first statement.

Thanks for the second . Rosa Mendes is a botch herself tbf (for God's sake she's a latina and she has pretty much no ass).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:mark: just downloaded the new Bischoff shoot. 4 hours 21 minutes! Should be interesting. Guy is looking OLD AS FUCK now lol. I mean, with the grey hair he always looked old, but damn, his face is looking like Flair without his shirt on 8*D.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> :mark: just downloaded the new Bischoff shoot. 4 hours 21 minutes! Should be interesting. Guy is looking OLD AS FUCK now lol. I mean, with the grey hair he always looked old, but damn, his face is looking like Flair without his shirt on 8*D.


Let us know your thoughts on that, im still deciding whether to grab it or not TBH, im not sure Bischoff is like that now, in terms of ragging on other people. Hope its interesting though and we learn some tidbits and secrets.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Holy fuck. I swear every time I watch Jericho/HBK from The Bash '08 the blade job looks worse.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Brock said:


> Let us know your thoughts on that, im still deciding whether to grab it or not TBH, im not sure Bischoff is like that now, in terms of ragging on other people. Hope its interesting though and we learn some tidbits and secrets.


Bisch and Austin did a long I believe four parter on the Austin Show where Bischoff seemed pretty damn calm and at peace even when Austin brought up the firing (albeit I'm sure Bischoff was ready for that), but then again Austin's non confrontational and "shoot the breeze" style gets that out of damn near everyone even Vader. Bischoff has his Wild Cody Beer, his entertainment projects and other things to work on so the man is pretty mellowed out to the business and said he's do it if an opportunity presented itself but he is at peace with where he is at right now.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't think I've watched a full Smackdown episode since 2011. And the last time I actually watched anything from the show was probably when Orton beat the hell out of RVD a couple of months ago. Good thing it's not live so I never actually have to waste time on it ever. Not that I would actually watch if it was live because I'd most likely forget about that and by the time I'd remember, the results would already be out. 



Brye said:


> And holy fuck, those opening promos from Triple H in 2003. Every damn opening of Raw for like 20 minutes. I really do kinda hate 2003 Raw.


My enjoyment of Raw in 2003 comes mainly from Austin as GM, Hollywood Rock in the first few months, Randy Orton's rise and a few comedic stuff like the debate between Nowinski and Steiner.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Bangle cage match was boring.


You consider Punk vs Jericho from Payback a classic. Your opinion on what is "boring" doesn't matter.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> My enjoyment of Raw in 2003 comes mainly from Austin as GM, Hollywood Rock in the first few months, Randy Orton's rise and a few comedic stuff like the debate between Nowinski and Steiner.


Those Randy Orton injury updates were the greatest thing ever. :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brock said:


> Let us know your thoughts on that, im still deciding whether to grab it or not TBH, im not sure Bischoff is like that now, in terms of ragging on other people. Hope its interesting though and we learn some tidbits and secrets.


I'm enjoying it so far. He, like many people in the business, has seemingly mellowed over the years and become more humble. RF Video uploaded a preview of it on YT that I watched yesterday and make me want to get the whole thing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7fK-Pi_pAw.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, Bisch seemed like that on Austin's podcast, he didn't really talk crap about anyone or anything and didn't divulge any names he didn't want to when it came to 'difficult stories'. I do hope he loosens up a bit for that shoot interview though TBH. Should be interesting regardless.


----------



## 96powerstroker (Mar 13, 2013)

*DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

What dvds would you Like WWE to produce. 

Id Like for them to produce more History of other championships 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Zatchman (Feb 17, 2014)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

The Rise and Fall of CM Punk unk2


----------



## nwoblack/white (Apr 14, 2006)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

I'd like to see a DVD show casing the best ring workers of all time. A DVD focused on technicians and the wwe's best matches of the nature throughout its history.


----------



## dxbender (Jul 22, 2007)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*



96powerstroker said:


> What dvds would you Like WWE to produce.
> 
> Id Like for them to produce more History of other championships
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


DVDs.......why pay $20 for a DVD when you can pay $9.99 for the WWE Network?!

lol,seriously though,some of the best ideas for DVDs won't happen anymore due to WWE Network. Main one I wanted to see were DVD Boxsets of every RAW,SD episodes and stuff.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

As of now, I would love to see a Daniel Bryan documentary with some his best matches from ROH (if possible) and WWE.


----------



## Beermonkeyv1 (Sep 9, 2007)

A dvd showing the story of wade barret from his life before wrestling, how he got approached for wwe, his time in nxt and nexus, his fued with cena and his injuries etc.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App

Im the REAL H2O Delirious


----------



## WWE2014 (Jan 4, 2014)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

A "Viewer's Choice" DVD maybe. They could ask the people on WWE.com via survey or something like that & choose the matches/segments, they want on the DVD (& the ones with the most votes are on the DVD). It could also inculde Chris Benoit.


----------



## Ambrosity (May 28, 2014)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

I would love to see a DVD focused on superstars that came up from the indies! Rollins, Ambrose, Bryan ect


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

So, during my WWE hiatus from '06ish-'12ish, it occurred to me I've never gone back and seen Punk/Cena @ MitB. Honestly, the match is quite rubbish. I know there's times the Punker is good, but this was not one of them. Practically every spot has a botch/sloppy element to it. I'm usually a fan of "ugly" wrestling, and there's moments in the match where it works (suplex to the outside, Punk's dive), but my lord is there a lot of sloppy ass transitions. Really Punk? Can't land on your damn feet on a back suplex counter? unk2

The match is also about 15-20 minutes too long. Length |= good. Ever. In fact, it does the opposite to me - like a book that's 200 pages too long (looking at you Ayn Rand:side, it's just strikes me a gratuitously self-indulgent. I actually started feeling bad for Cena during it - there's a moment, just before he climbs the turnbuckle and rests his head on the top tb for just a second and I feel like I can read his mind: "God, this is going to hurt." And he's right: that powerbomb is god-awful in its execution and Cena was lucky not to get hurt. Just wasn't feeling the match at all. Maybe it's because I'm watching it so far removed from the build, but I really don't see a strong storytelling component to the match either (outside of the finish), and Punk's selling is mostly atrocious. Forced, forced, forced and that's before the finish. There are a few bright spots as well, but yeah, it wasn't for me. ****1/2* and I feel like that's probably too generous.


----------



## Darkness is here (Mar 25, 2014)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

Have they done any dvd on angle yet?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

More of the 'Greatest Rivalries' DVDs.


----------



## JohnCooley (Apr 25, 2014)

'Better than Perfect: The Curtis Axel Story' 
I would watch that everyday, no lie.


----------



## ThewweBooker (Sep 24, 2014)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

in 10 years, a documentary on Paige. 

Paige: From Norwich to wwe


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Rubbish yet you give it 3 and a half? :lol

Watching Raw after Fully Loaded 98 and holy fuck, I just witnessed one of the most nonsensical finishes to a match ever. The Rock defends the IC title in a triple threat against X-Pac and Triple H. In order to avoid having him win clean, he walks away with the belt and gets counted out. You read that right. A COUNT OUT IN A TRIPLE THREAT!

It's even worse because earlier in the match, HHH was outside the ring for over a minute yet the ref never even acknowledged him. The announcement was also ridiculous. "Due to a count out, The Rock has lost this match". Really? fpalm


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Pay close attention after Summerslam to a feud between Goldust and Venis. The face/heel dynamic makes no sense, but their feud ending match is a hidden gem. Also pay attention to D'Lo Brown. Dude is great.

Not even going to dignify the smut posted about the second greatest match in WWE history.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, Cena/Punk MITB is one of those matches where watching the buildup before the match is absolutely crucial imo. Maybe your experience wasn't so good because of the fact that you're like 3 years too late and you already knew the outcome .

And of course, when it comes to CM Punk, ff is as irrational as Cal and Taker :lol.


----------



## Freeway.86 (Jul 5, 2006)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*



dxbender said:


> DVDs.......why pay $20 for a DVD when you can pay $9.99 for the WWE Network?!
> 
> lol,seriously though,some of the best ideas for DVDs won't happen anymore due to WWE Network. Main one I wanted to see were DVD Boxsets of every RAW,SD episodes and stuff.


That's not entirely true because they wouldn't put up those new DVDs on the Network right away.


----------



## *Eternity* (Aug 11, 2010)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

A documentary on the behind the scene workers, such as the production team, lighting team, pyro team, creative team, and everyone else who contribute to the show, but continue remain invisible to the fans, would be pretty cool and very informative to watch.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Rubbish yet you give it 3 and a half? :lol


I was probably being too generous I left thinking there might be something I'm missing being removed from the build, and my general distaste for Punk creates a bias that I try to overcome. But yeah, ***1/2 is rubbish considering the context - Epically long Main Event that crowns a new champion, and has a huge payoff built into the finish. It should've been **** or higher all day.




ATF said:


> Well, Cena/Punk MITB is one of those matches where watching the buildup before the match is absolutely crucial imo. Maybe your experience wasn't so good because of the fact that you're like 3 years too late and you already knew the outcome .
> 
> And of course, when it comes to CM Punk, ff is as irrational as Cal and Taker :lol.


There's probably some truth to not watching the build hurt it, but not the outcome or when it happened Outcomes mean very little to me, especially when rating the match, and I just watched Rodgers/O'Conner from Comisky Park 60 years too late and thought it was *****1/2* 

Funnyfaces, don't tell me you have that match above WM20 ME, Austin/Bret, Eddie/Brock, Eddie/JBL, Bryan/Sheamus, Savage/Steamboat, the list goes on...?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Not even going to dignify the smut posted about the second greatest match in WWE history.


Someone is shitty on HBK/Taker WM 26 match? LET ME AT EM!!!



ATF said:


> And of course, when it comes to CM Punk, ff is as irrational as Cal and Taker :lol.


I'm sure I have no idea what that means :side:.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cal is not irrational at all when he talks about Taker. I recently watched Taker/Austin from Backlash. It was actually very good.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

JustJoel said:


> I was probably being too generous I left thinking there might be something I'm missing being removed from the build, and my general distaste for Punk more generally creates a bias. But yeah, ***1/2 is rubbish considering the context - Epically long Main Event that crowns a new champion, and has a huge payoff built into the finish. It should've been **** or higher all day.


Nobody has a larger distaste for Punk than me and even I rate that match four and a half.

Still doesn't stop me from thinking it's likely the most overrated match next to Bret/HBK from WM12 and Punk/Cena from SummerSlam the month after.


----------



## Right_To_Censor (Dec 30, 2013)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

I want WWE to produce a DVD on how the Right To Censor laid the grounds for the PG era, and how WWE plans to take its kid/family friendly programming even further.


----------



## -SAW- (Feb 29, 2004)

ShowStopper said:


> More of the 'Greatest Rivalries' DVDs.


This.

Keep it the exact same format and it'd be great. Too bad they wouldn't be able to get JR back though.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Looking back on it, from a technical aspect, Punk/Cena isn't anything special. Fortunately, wrestling isn't about pretty looking transitions. It's story-telling. It's emotion. It's drama. To me, those things matter more than technical savvy. I rank Punk/Cena MITB with matches such as Flair/HBK and Taker/HBK WM 25. Did it have it's sloppy moments? Of course it did. But did it take away from the emotion and the story they were telling? To me that overrides any other factor in a wrestling match.


----------



## own1997 (Jul 7, 2014)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

Buried - Starring Cena and Triple H.


----------



## own1997 (Jul 7, 2014)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*



JohnCooley said:


> 'Better than Perfect: The Curtis Axel Story'
> I would watch that everyday, no lie.



I don't really think it'll much of a story.


----------



## kurtmangled (Jan 5, 2010)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

Will never happen but..

"The downfall of the rabid wolverine, the chris Benoit story"


----------



## Darkness is here (Mar 25, 2014)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*



*Eternity* said:


> A documentary on the behind the scene workers, such as the production team, lighting team, pyro team, creative team, and everyone else who contribute to the show, but continue remain invisible to the fans, would be pretty cool and very informative to watch.


This one can be a good one.


----------



## DeeGirl (Aug 18, 2014)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

A Chris Jericho documentary, a Daniel Bryan documentary, an Undertaker documentary and of course the rise and fall of CM Punk.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> Looking back on it, from a technical aspect, Punk/Cena isn't anything special. Fortunately, wrestling isn't about pretty looking transitions. It's story-telling. It's emotion. It's drama. To me, those things matter more than technical savvy. I rank Punk/Cena MITB with matches such as Flair/HBK and Taker/HBK WM 25. Did it have it's sloppy moments? Of course it did. But did it take away from the emotion and the story they were telling? To me that overrides any other factor in a wrestling match.



My thoughts exactly. When people bitch about the sloppiness in that match I think they are just entirely missing the point of wrestling. Not everyone can be a Benoit or Eddie in the ring. Hell, that WM 25 classic between HBK/Taker is also pretty sloppy and fuck me if that's not the match that rekindled my love of wrestling. I watched that match live literally in awe of what they were doing, couldn't care less if Shawn's offense looked like shit or some things were botched. The sloppiness also makes a bit of sense when you realize that match was called 100% in the ring. Nothing was rehearsed, and Cena isn't that adept at just flying by the seat of his pants like that. Still, I give that match ****** and it's one of the top 13-14 matches in WWE history IMO. BUT, I do think Punk/Lesnar from SS 2013 is better, tbh. That's another match that was done mostly on the fly but Punk had an opponent in Brock who is used to just calling it on the fly and that's why you won't see the sloppiness in that match you do in the MitB one.


----------



## Darkness is here (Mar 25, 2014)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*



kurtmangled said:


> Will never happen but..
> 
> "The downfall of the rabid wolverine, the chris Benoit story"


Yeah, a benoit(wrestling) dvd will be great.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I find Lesnar/Punk underrated. It's honestly my match of the year of 2013 and still holds up as a ***** match for me.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*



StupidSexyFlanders said:


> A Chris Jericho documentary, a Daniel Bryan documentary, an Undertaker documentary and of course the rise and fall of CM Punk.


They made a Jericho documentary.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If by very good you mean "has awesome intentions storyline-wise but is terribly boring and uninteresting", then you'd be with my opinion regarding that match, ff. And I'm a mark for both guys, hell Austin is the GOAT imo, so you know how much it affected me.

Plus, someone who actually gave THAT, as well as stuff like Taker's match w/Rock at NWO 2002, JBL at No Mercy 2004 and Kennedy at No Mercy 2006 over ****+ ratings has GOTTA be somewhat irrational tbf. Isn't that right Cal? :side:

Anyways, Cena/Punk MITB is either in my top 10 matches of the company's history, or just shy of it. Count me in as someone who has it at *****.


----------



## CD Player (May 27, 2013)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

Buddy Rogers, Original Nature Boy


----------



## Darkness is here (Mar 25, 2014)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

^ don't think they will do that one.


----------



## CD Player (May 27, 2013)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

Rick Rude, Simply Ravishing


----------



## CM Punk Is A God (Jan 6, 2013)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*



dxbender said:


> DVDs.......why pay $20 for a DVD when you can pay $9.99 for the WWE Network?!
> 
> lol,seriously though,some of the best ideas for DVDs won't happen anymore due to WWE Network. Main one I wanted to see were DVD Boxsets of every RAW,SD episodes and stuff.


Or you don't have to pay shit and watch everything on the internet for free.. I bet there's not 1 program on the Network that i can't find online.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

There's this neat trick for avoiding sloppiness in a match: _Stop doing stuff you can't do well_. Magically simple concept. I like ugly stuff and an occasional botch is whatever. However, nothing is clean from Punk, and I can't overlook that. It's like watching an actor on stage consistently flubbing lines. I wasn't felling a lot of emotion in it tbh. Sorta supports my theory that, for most, outcomes have far too much attached to them. Punk's selling is mostly him just lying there or moving slower. The face? Just not working it enough for me. I know for a fact that match was not called on the fly - and when you're two professionals who both speak English as a first language - that's not even a valid excuse, sorry. Punk/Lesnar blows it out of the water (****1/2 for me, and top 3-4 from last year among all promotions). You're better off claiming it was a problem of too many cooks (ring generals) in the kitchen.

I would encourage people to watch it again up to the finish, turn it off, and imagine Cena had tapped Punk out instead of the Vince shenanigans - now where do you have it?


----------



## tyler_durden (May 19, 2013)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

To my knowledge they haven't done a Cena documentary since like 2005-6ish. I know he's not popular, but that could be really interesting.

I love me some punk, so even if they do a takedown documentary about CM Punk making him look bad i'd still watch it.

The mini Shield documentary they did a few months ago was awesome. I'd love to see a 2 hr Shield one or even just an Ambrose or Rollins one.


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

Daniel Bryan doc.


----------



## xkin (Sep 3, 2014)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

DESPERATELY wanted:

Owen Hart DVD (but we know what the problem is there...)

Bam Bam Bigelow DVD. Probably the best "big" man in the history of the biz, somehow underrated.

A PROPER Mr. Perfect DVD (the current one has a kayfabe documentary, 10 matches [3 of which are vs. Bret Hart], and only one match the guy actually won)

A DVD on the Von Erichs (I know they're on other DVDs, but don't have their own, really)

A Best of NXT DVD. (maybe a mini documentary on NXT and packed with matches like Cesaro/Zayn, Natalia/Charlotte, Paige/Emma, some Wyatt stuff, etc.)

A FUCKING KURT ANGLE DVD, WHAT THE FUCK, WWE????????????


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Hello, Cena/Punk is no bad.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

JustJoel said:


> There's this neat trick for avoiding sloppiness in a match: _Stop doing stuff you can't do well_. Magically simple concept. I like ugly stuff and an occasional botch is whatever. However, nothing is clean from Punk, and I can't overlook that. It's like watching an actor on stage consistently flubbing lines. I wasn't felling a lot of emotion in it tbh. Sorta supports my theory that, for most, outcomes have far too much attached to them. Punk's selling is mostly him just lying there or moving slower. The face? Just not working it enough for me. I know for a fact that match was not called on the fly - and when you're two professionals who both speak English as a first language - that's not even a valid excuse, sorry. Punk/Lesnar blows it out of the water (****1/2 for me, and top 3-4 from last year among all promotions). You're better off claiming it was a problem of too many cooks (ring generals) in the kitchen.
> *
> I would encourage people to watch it again up to the finish, turn it off, and imagine Cena had tapped Punk out instead of the Vince shenanigans - now where do you have it?*


This is stupid. 

The fact of the matter is, that's not how the match ended. The fact is, the match ended a certain way and (unknown to the audience) was building up to that finish all along. The fact is all the bullshit in the end is what made the match even more dramatic and tugged on our emotions. Heck, the match was doing that long before the interference. Vince's shenanigans was just the icing on the cake. 

You seriously can't expect to say a match sucked because if another finish was proposed it wouldn't have been as good. The fact is, it was good because of of the way it ended. Shit man, that's what makes a match. The beginning, middle and end! 

After reading your comment it reminds of me of a comment I read a couple days after that match. One guy insisted the match wasn't good because "if you turn the volume down, it's nothing impressive".


----------



## Chris22 (Jan 7, 2010)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

I want a Jericho DVD (with doc), Kurt Angle DVD (with doc) & a History Of The Women's Championship DVD.


----------



## itsmutacantrememberinfo (Dec 31, 2009)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

I would like to see some more WCW based DVDs.

History of the Television Title
Best of WarGames
LWO: Latino World Order
Top 50 Incidents in WCW History (something similar to WWE's OMG DVD)
Best of WCW Saturday Night
Greatest Tag-Teams in WCW History
Greatest Bash at the Beach/Great American Bash Matches/Moments


----------



## xkin (Sep 3, 2014)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*



Muta said:


> I would like to see some more WCW based DVDs.
> 
> History of the Television Title
> *Best of WarGames*
> ...


http://www.amazon.com/WCW-War-Games...&qid=1411853471&sr=8-1&keywords=wcw+war+games


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Ironically, Cena/Punk after Summerslam 11 are some of the slickest and crispest wrestling matches, Punk probably had nervous jitters and ofc that doesn't justify it.


----------



## Ratedr4life (Dec 18, 2008)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*



ShowStopper said:


> More of the 'Greatest Rivalries' DVDs.


I'd love to see a Rock vs HHH one.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Ironically, Cena/Punk after Summerslam 11 are some of the slickest and crispest wrestling matches, Punk probably had nervous jitters and ofc that doesn't justify it.


This is true. Their NOC '12 is probably their best encounter from a technical standpoint

Also, watching Backlash 2000 on the WWE Network or $9.99 and my goodness the rack on Debra.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

So what match is left that everybody here loves?


----------



## CD Player (May 27, 2013)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

Not a dvd, but a second Edge autobiography. "On Edge" was before the Hardy/Lita affair, so much happened afterwards.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've never had a problem with the bit of sloppiness in Punk/Cena. There was so much happening in that match that was so fantastic that it just doesn't cross my mind. Honestly, in just about any good match, a botch doesn't hurt it at all for me unless they like REALLY fuck up. Like say Punk and Cena have an awkward looking powerbomb spot. That's 5 seconds of a long match. The move was still hit. No one died or got hurt. I really don't even think about sloppiness when I'm rating or watching a match. Now consistent sloppiness, like some of those Punk/Burke matches, those were noticeable.

Edit: HBK/Benjamin? HBK/Jericho NM '08? Orton/Taker HIAC? Just three that come to mind.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

ATF said:


> Speaking of hilarious matches, any matches so entertaining for being so Goddamn horrible? Alike HHH/Steiner.


IWRG had one of the worst matches I've ever seen a couple months ago. Easily the worst ladder match I've seen. It's covered in the latest Botchamania, from 10:05 until the end:

x26188y_botchamania-257_sport


They had another ladder match shortly afterwards that I have yet to watch. What I do know, though, is that La Parka thought he was unjustly disqualified so he took the only ladder left and fucked off. :


----------



## THEBROODRULEZ666 (Oct 5, 2010)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

Scott Steiner - Mesmermising

One about The Kliq would be pretty cool too


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Rah said:


> IWRG had one of the worst matches I've ever seen a couple months ago. Easily the worst ladder match I've seen. It's covered in the latest Botchamania, from 10:05 until the end:
> 
> x26188y_botchamania-257_sport


Saw this the other day. :lmao

The dude at the end just can't fucking get it down. :lmao


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

1 minute 25 seconds to unhook it, and he only succeeds after stretching and breaking the holster/rope. Surely that's a record?


----------



## CD Player (May 27, 2013)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

The New Generation.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I love the three Punk/Cena PPV matches, but they're nothing I'd go over ****1/4 for, I wouldn't call them masterpieces. I don't care they were sloppy, it's just a technicality, and it was acceptable sloppiness anyway. The reason I don't buy those matches as GOATs is simply because I never got hooked on Punk's charisma, the whole storyline and Punk's promos never did it for me and I guess that transfered into matches for this viewer. Strangely, during that period I looked at Punk as a poser instead of Cena, Punk just screamed FAKE, couldn't buy into that whole thing.

Funny thing is I SHOULD love them more since they were heavily influenced by big puro epics, but logic doesn't always work that way.

MITB ****
SummerSlam ****1/4
NOC ****1/4
Raw ***


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

JustJoel said:


> Funnyfaces, don't tell me you have that match above WM20 ME, Austin/Bret, Eddie/Brock, Eddie/JBL, Bryan/Sheamus, Savage/Steamboat, the list goes on...?


Only one of those matches on that list is above Punk/Cena, and I'm strongly considering putting Punk/Cena above that match as well. There is no better moment in wrestling than Punk running out of the Allstate Arena with the title. Without that moment, then none of us would be wrestling fans today.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Great American Bash 2008:

Hawkins & Ryder vs Finlay & Hornswoggle vs Miz & Morrison vs Jesse & Festus - ***1/4 (2)
Shelton Benjamin vs Matt Hardy - ***1/2 (3)
Mark Henry vs Tommy Dreamer - ** (.5)
Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels - ***1/2 (3)
Michelle McCool vs Natalya - DUD (0)
CM Punk vs Batista - **3/4 (1)
JBL vs John Cena - **1/2 (1)
Edge vs Triple H - *1/2 (.5)

Total: 11

- Opening tag is fun. These '08 shows always seemed to kick off with something fairly entertaining, other than Backlash '08 which is torture. Finlay is a badass as always and Morrison is pretty awesome in it too. Plus Hawkins & Ryder. :mark:

- Benjamin/Hardy is much better than the last couple Hardy PPV matches I've watched. Matt was always a good seller. Control segment was a bit slow but the crowd was into Hardy and the whole second half of the match was really entertaining.

- Henry/Dreamer was lame. Short match and Henry's offense wasn't as good as I'd hoped. Dunno if these two ever had a street fight or anything on ECW but I imagine that would have cool. DELANEY HEEL TURN

- Jericho/HBK is pure violence. HBK's blade job is real nasty and the beatdown is beyond brutal. The match itself is very story driven and while it's not an amazing match, it was great for the feud as a whole.

- Natalya/McCool was extremely boring. Especially for the inauguration of a new title. 

- Punk/Batista had some potential but a really lame DQ ending and nothing was really amazing about it.

- Cena/JBL is what you'd expect out of a parking lot brawl. It has some really fun moments and as a segment, it's not bad, but as a match it isn't all that great. A lot of pointless stuff going on, but I'm still legitimately surprised that JBL won.

- Triple H/Edge is a really, really empty main event. Just your run of the mill main event of Raw type of match. Honestly didn't do much for me but it had a couple compelling moments. Whole storyline itself was really lame though and for a matchup that WWE never really did, HHH/Edge disappointed.

- Can't say I liked the show all that much but it had a couple decent matches.

Wrestlemania - 31.5
No Way Out - 20
One Night Stand - 14
Judgment Day - 13
Great American Bash - 11
Night of Champions - 9
Royal Rumble - 8
Backlash - 7


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

'Big' Punk-Cena matches:

MITB- *****. Top 10 match in WWE history.
Summerslam- ***3/4. Very good match but feel it's a bit overrated by some.
NOC- ****1/2. Absolutely love this match, would maybe give it ****3/4 on a rewatch.
Raw. ****1/2. Top 10 Raw match ever.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The sloppiness of the match made it feel more real for me. As if Punk had the sense of urgency to walk out with the power of having the WWE Title, while Cena had the WWE on his back in that moment to make sure Punk didn't leave with the title.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Which Punk/Cena RAW match is that? IF it's the RTWM one, I definitely agree it's a top 10 RAW match. If it's the 2011 one, I'm gonna disagree. I absolutely hated that match. Just a bunch of finisher kick outs to make it feel epic. 

But man, there's really something special about the chemistry Punk and Cena have. I've noticed Cena and Cesaro have that same chemistry and I really hope the two start a rivalry sometime in the future.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Looking through that Great American Bash 08 card. The last time I watched all the matches on the card, I remember liking all of them except for the Divas match. I guess I'll rewatch it after I get into medical school.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Punk/Cena matches:

MITB - *****
SS '11 - ***3/4
NOC '12 - ****1/4
Raw '13 - ****1/2

edit: ff, when do you get into medical school?!


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Punk/Cena Raw match on the RTWM has to be one of the best Raw matches ever, imo. That shit was so good. And they changed it up and gave great false finishes when you pretty much knew Cena was going to win.


Punk's really good at that. You knew Cena was going to win that Raw match, but it made you think for a second. You knew Taker was going to win at WM29, but there were moments where you thought "wait...". Punk was really good at that.

MITB: *****
SS: ****
NOC: ****1/4
Raw: ****1/2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I wanna go through the 2008 PPVs when I get the Network. Most of the cards sound appealing from top to bottom.

JBL vs Cena from The Bash is a blast to watch. Just non-stop fun stuff from the beginning to end. Jericho vs HBK was solid and another one in their series that's pretty good.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Which Punk/Cena RAW match is that? IF it's the RTWM one, I definitely agree it's a top 10 RAW match. If it's the 2011 one, I'm gonna disagree. I absolutely hated that match. Just a bunch of finisher kick outs to make it feel epic.
> 
> But man, there's really something special about the chemistry Punk and Cena have. I've noticed Cena and Cesaro have that same chemistry and I really hope the two start a rivalry sometime in the future.


RTWM one, don't think I've ever seen the 2011 match.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Choke2Death said:


> I wanna go through the 2008 PPVs when I get the Network. Most of the cards sound appealing from top to bottom.
> 
> JBL vs Cena from The Bash is a blast to watch. Just non-stop fun stuff from the beginning to end. Jericho vs HBK was solid and another one in their series that's pretty good.


What? You don't have the network as yet? Bro, you wouldn't believe how much it costs :HHH2


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I wanna go through the 2008 PPVs when I get the Network. Most of the cards sound appealing from top to bottom.
> 
> JBL vs Cena from The Bash is a blast to watch. Just non-stop fun stuff from the beginning to end. Jericho vs HBK was solid and another one in their series that's pretty good.


The shows have flowed really well. Even the ones with more lackluster matches don't feel like a chore to watch.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brye said:


> Punk/Cena matches:
> 
> MITB - *****
> SS '11 - ***3/4
> ...


Those are my exact ratings for the 4 big Punk/Cena matches, well done sir 

That 6 man ladder match from Mexico.....wow. I've never seen anything THAT bad. WTF was wrong with all the ladders? Why didn't someone just stop the madness before it devolved into....whatever it is that they were doing? If I'm the promoter and I see that going down, I'm giving those guys the office IMMEDIATELY and telling them to go the fuck home ASAP. I only saw that 5 minute clip, but I feel comfortable in saying that tops HHH/Steiner and Hogan/Warrio HH 98' BY FAR as the worst match ever. Hell that has to "top" that Nowinski/Trish/JBL mixed tag or that atrocious Divas match JR actually apologized on air for. Wow. Just wow.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Cal is not irrational at all when he talks about Taker. I recently watched Taker/Austin from Backlash. It was actually very good.


Fuck.



funnyfaces1 said:


> So what match is left that everybody here loves?


Rey/Eddie.



Rah said:


> IWRG had one of the worst matches I've ever seen a couple months ago. Easily the worst ladder match I've seen. It's covered in the latest Botchamania, from 10:05 until the end:


Holy shit that was legitimately one of the most hilarious things ever to happen in wrestling. The first minute of that botchamania clip alone had me literally in tears. :lmao That part when the guy tried to fix the broken ladder by just adding a smaller bit of ladder. Sagrada just trying to use a chair and then falling of it. :lmao The mask somehow flying off into the crowd. Trying to grab the belt but not being able to. They threw something new at me every single clip that I did not expect and I laughed more and more on each of them. I truly have a sore throat right now. I'm not kidding, just watching those four minutes during botchamania I think this fucking destroys HHH/Steiner on the HHH/Steiner scale. Might genuinely be the most I've ever laughed at wrestling.

And is that PARODIUS music during the botchamania clip? Those five minutes might be the greatest thing on planet earth.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> If I'm the promoter and I see that going down, I'm giving those guys the office IMMEDIATELY and telling them to go the fuck home ASAP.


How do you tell that to Wagner and Park without getting punched in the face, tho?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Rey/Eddie.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yea, the day someone comes in here and starts talking shit about the 2 Rey/Eddie Classics (HH 97' & SD 6/23/05) is the day I stop posting in here. If you can objectively find a single thing wrong with either of those matches then you objectively don't have a single clue what wrestling is supposed to be about. End of story.

Dude I had the same reaction watching the clip. I couldn't stop laughing. And when that guy tries to "MacGuyver" the ladder by adding another broken piece is the point I officially lost it and started howling with laughter. I showed it to my girlfriend and after about 30 seconds she says to me "Wait...so what are they doing?" and I said "Babe they are trying to have a wrestling match, you win by climbing a ladder and unhooking the belt hanging from the ceiling". She watches for about 5 more seconds then bursts out laughing too. That was seriously amazing, although I feel bad that La Parka had to be involved in it. Or was that the phony La Parka? The real one goes by L.A. Park these days right?




Chismo said:


> How do you tell that to Wagner and Park without getting punched in the face, tho?


True. Although I think as a promoter you just have to take that L, get your medicine from La Park and Dr. Wagner when they come into the back, and move on. You can kill a town completely with a match like that.

P.S. Dr. Wagner still wrestles? Wasn't he really big back in the early 90s? Or am I confusing him with someone else? Does he have a "Hannibal Lecter-esque" gimmick?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

At least that ladder match is something the audience will always remember.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

That was the original Parka, LA Park, and he had this fantastic match with Wagner 40 days ago:






La Parka II is in AAA.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> How do you tell that to Wagner and Park without getting punched in the face, tho?





Chismo said:


> That was the original Parka, LA Park, and he had this fantastic match with Wagner 40 days ago:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah, gotcha. I'll give it a watch I've been watching bunches of AJPW early 90s heavyweight matches recently I could use a change of pace. Did you read my edit on the original post where I asked about Dr. Wagner?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> P.S. Dr. Wagner still wrestles? Wasn't he really big back in the early 90s? Or am I confusing him with someone else? Does he have a "Hannibal Lecter-esque" gimmick?


Luchadores pretty much debut at 14, have kids at 45 and retire at 80.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Hopefully someone manages to book that long anticipated Park/Wagner mask match that's been 10+ years in the making, but it's hard to overcome Wagner's gigantic ego and big money he requests for losing the mask. If they ever meet in a mask match, tho, I'd legit had an ambulance car and paramedics in the venue, Grim Reaper would be lurking like a motherfucker that night.

It was supposed to happen in AAA, I think, but then they both left. Typically drunken lucha stories.


----------



## Ten410 (Apr 8, 2012)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

I would love to see a best of WCW Cruiserweights set and a Jerry Lawler set.


----------



## They LIVE (Aug 8, 2014)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

_Best of Tazz_ compilation taking matches and promos from their complete library. 

Which would pretty much end after the 2000 Rumble LOL.


----------



## -SAW- (Feb 29, 2004)

Ratedr4life said:


> I'd love to see a Rock vs HHH one.


Definitely. Along with...

Rock/Austin
Piper/Hogan
HHH/HBK
Edge/Cena
Rock/Cena
Rock/Hogan

Alot of interesting pairs would now be impossible due to untimely deaths or guys no longer with the company, etc but what the hell...

Hogan/Warrior
Benoit/Jericho
Punk/Cena
Hogan/Savage


----------



## Roman Empire (Jun 16, 2014)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

I agree with a history of the women's championship, maybe also one of the greatest diva's in the WWE or something.


----------



## Phaedra (Aug 15, 2014)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

15 minutes of the Life and Times of Dean Ambrose in the Shield documentary was nowhere near fucking enough. The man is fascinating, he is fascinating in the ring and his life is truly fascinating because he is so guarded and private. 

"Do I Have Your Attention Now": The Life and Times of Dean Ambrose. 

Here is everything i have ever earned and every penny i ever will earn, all my monies for this dvd to be made.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> This is stupid.


:lol 



> The fact of the matter is, that's not how the match ended. The fact is, the match ended a certain way and (unknown to the audience) was building up to that finish all along. The fact is all the bullshit in the end is what made the match even more dramatic and tugged on our emotions. Heck, the match was doing that long before the interference. Vince's shenanigans was just the icing on the cake.


Doesn't matter - _Rocky_, for instance, is a great movie before you know who wins the match. _1984_ is a great book long before you reach the last page. A story's greatness does not hinge on its outcome. The conflict resolution is a small part of the story. For me, as long as the face makes me _want_ them to win, it's exactly the same as if they do win. How it's done (timing, creativity, unexpectedness, etc) is more important than who goes over.



> *You seriously can't expect to say a match sucked because if another finish was proposed it wouldn't have been as good.*The fact is, it was good because of of the way it ended. Shit man, that's what makes a match. The beginning, middle and end!


The bolded makes no sense. What I'm saying is that, if Cena had won, it wouldn't have changed my opinion of the match. This seems to be largely at odds with how many judge a match. So, as a thought experiment, I encouraged people to watch it up to the finish, and judge the match if the winner/loser were reversed. 



> After reading your comment it reminds of me of a comment I read a couple days after that match. One guy insisted the match wasn't good because "if you turn the volume down, it's nothing impressive".


"If you forget Punk won the match, it's nothing impressive." Is not what I'm saying (b/c i didnt care for it no matter who won), but does seem to reflect your opinion of it. Ironic.


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

Top 50 worst Vince McMahon decisions.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

ATTITUDE THROWBACK: SUMMERSLAM 1998 (not entire card)

Hair vs Hair Match
Jeff Jarrett vs X-Pac
***
Average. Nothing special, except for the post-match segment.

Lions Den Match
Owen Hart vs Ken Shamrock
****
Really great match within the confines of the gimmick. Lots of slams. I like how they incorporated the new environment into the match. Something different, which is nice.

Tag Team Championship Handicap Match
New Age Outlaws vs Mankind (c)
***1/2
Silly match. Fun to watch. Some hardcore action. Interesting ending.

Intercontinental Championship Ladder Match
Triple H vs The Rock (c)
****1/4
Really great stuff. Lots of intensity. Phenomenal story-telling.

WWF Championship Match
The Undertaker va Stone Cold Steve Austin (c)
***3/4
Decent match. I really wanted to give 4 stars but it was just missing that oomph factor. The table spot was epic though.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> Holy shit that was legitimately one of the most hilarious things ever to happen in wrestling. The first minute of that botchamania clip alone had me literally in tears. :lmao That part when the guy tried to fix the broken ladder by just adding a smaller bit of ladder. Sagrada just trying to use a chair and then falling of it. :lmao The mask somehow flying off into the crowd. Trying to grab the belt but not being able to. They threw something new at me every single clip that I did not expect and I laughed more and more on each of them. I truly have a sore throat right now. I'm not kidding, just watching those four minutes during botchamania I think this fucking destroys HHH/Steiner on the HHH/Steiner scale. Might genuinely be the most I've ever laughed at wrestling.
> 
> And is that PARODIUS music during the botchamania clip? Those five minutes might be the greatest thing on planet earth.


Fuck, the part with the mask randomly flying off in to the crowd absolutely killed me. Just how the fuck that happened is bizarre, and add it in to that ridiculous match and it's even more amazing.

On the Punk/Cena thing, Summerslam is their best match imo, it's almost perfect. NOC '12 was heading towards being their best match but the end got ridiculous and ruined it. I still really liked it though, I even liked the botched moonsault.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

@Joel, yes of course Punk winning plays a part influences my opinion of it. Because that's the STORY of the match. Don't you understand? It's like Flair and HBK. Flair losing is why the match is so emotional. Taker/HNK at WM 26. Same thing. Punk and Cena is no different. Punk winning is what drive the emotional factor even more. Had Cena won, it will still be a good match because I'm not looking at sloppiness. I'm looking at the emotion and drama. Had Cena won, it would have caused a fucking riot and Cena would have had to be the one running out the building. 

As a matter of fact, Punk leaving with the title added so much to the STORY. What was going to happen?

Bro, you can't just isolate the wrestling aspect of the match. Wrestling doesn't happen in a vacuum, there's so many elements that make up a match. Punk/Cena is bigger than just two guys straight up wrestling. It wasn't an exhibition. Neither was Flair/HBK. These matches are bigger than that. In these matches THE OUTCOME ACTUALLY MEANS SOMETHING.


----------



## HiddenFlaw (Jan 29, 2014)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

a paige dvd kada


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

A story's greatness hinges on its outcome. End of debate. Let's talk about La Parka.

EDIT: 2016 hopefully, Brye


----------



## Continuum (Sep 14, 2012)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

Undertaker dvd witha nice doc would be amazing + a new vince mcmahon/mcmahon dvd! and on top of that a scott steiner dvd would make my mouth water!


----------



## daulten780 (May 9, 2013)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

A Kurt Angle DVD would be amazing if it ever came out. Hopefully he signs this year and we get it


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Here's a controversial topic I don't think we've ever discussed, or maybe we have and I was absent or have forgotten about it. Where does Cena rank in company history? I'm not talking about technical ability or any of that sort of stuff that has the average IWC member putting guys like Kenny Omega over the likes of Edge. I'm talking about from the entertainment standpoint. I'm talking about the impact he has had. Imo, the guy is one hell of a talent. Sure, most of his matches suck throughout the year but there's a reason why he's still going and Bryan isn't. He has to take care of his body. Plus, he's approaching 40. But when the lights are on bright, 9 times out of 10 Cena delivers. Heck, even in a random ass match on a random ass RAW with Cesaro the guy delivers as well. 

Another impressive note on Cena's wrestler resume, imo, is his Dr. of Thugonamics gimmick. I also think John Cena's 2007 year is one of the best wrestler years ever. The guy has definitely earned his spot and i just wished people could look past the stupid gimmick and all the other crap that I even I hate about him. Hopefully, those boos are only because the character sucks. John Cena the big-time performer doesn't and I just wish more people could see that.


----------



## Heath V (Apr 9, 2014)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*



Muta said:


> I would like to see some more WCW based DVDs.
> 
> History of the Television Title
> Best of WarGames
> ...


They recently released a top 50 WCW 3 disc dvd set.

BTW awesome sig and avatar!


----------



## dobbies (Apr 14, 2008)

I'd love more a DVD series of old matches and stories on the old WWWF from CWC to the boom. Tell it in a more linear format and with matches! A lot of the stuff I've never really seen before. Bruno matches, Rogers dropping the belt in 48 secs etc.

Similar to the Legends of Mid-South DVD.


----------



## White Glove Test (Jun 19, 2007)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

Something about Vince, maybe showing what 24 hrs in the life of Mr. McMahon would be cool. Like How he deals with talent, how the shows backstage are run, possibly blowing up on someone when shit goes wrong.


----------



## EyeZac (Mar 12, 2011)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*



ShowStopper said:


> More of the 'Greatest Rivalries' DVDs.


I loved the Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart DVD that they produced with the sit down interview. I would love to see something like that again.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> @Joel, yes of course Punk winning plays a part influences my opinion of it. Because that's the STORY of the match. Don't you understand? It's like Flair and HBK. Flair losing is why the match is so emotional. Taker/HNK at WM 26. Same thing. Punk and Cena is no different. Punk winning is what drive the emotional factor even more. Had Cena won, it will still be a good match because I'm not looking at sloppiness. I'm looking at the emotion and drama. Had Cena won, it would have caused a fucking riot and Cena would have had to be the one running out the building.


I just don't agree. If Cena had won, THAT would have been the story of the match. You're using circular reasoning. The emotion and drama of it would have still been there, possibly more dramatic in the same sense that Rocky losing to Apollo made the movie more dramatic.



> Bro, you can't just isolate the wrestling aspect of the match. Wrestling doesn't happen in a vacuum, there's so many elements that make up a match. Punk/Cena is bigger than just two guys straight up wrestling. It wasn't an exhibition. Neither was Flair/HBK. These matches are bigger than that. In these matches THE OUTCOME ACTUALLY MEANS SOMETHING.


Who's isolating it? I'm taking it all into consideration (hence, ***1/2 instead of **1/2-***) - you may as well give Brock/Taker ***** with that logic. I'm just not willing to give a pass to mediocrity because the face won.:shrug




funnyfaces1 said:


> A story's greatness *never* hinges on its outcome. End of debate.


I fixed it that for you, because otherwise that's just Mickey Mouse naïveté.


----------



## dobbies (Apr 14, 2008)

Frieza said:


> I loved the Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart DVD that they produced with the sit down interview. I would love to see something like that again.


Any feuds actually come close in the heat factor though?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Bubz said:


> Fuck, the part with the mask randomly flying off in to the crowd absolutely killed me. Just how the fuck that happened is bizarre, and add it in to that ridiculous match and it's even more amazing.


Park's bump during the mask spot reminded me of this scene in Modern Family; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--1UQs81p3k


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer (May 31, 2011)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

NXT Season 1 DVD: Matches and whole shows of NXT 2012.
The Rise of The Anti Diva DVD: All of Paige's career from her indies days to now.
The Black Widow: AJ Lee DVD from her FCW days to now.
To 25 Submission Matches of All Time DVD
The Daniel Bryan Documentary
The History of the Diva's Championship DVD
The History of the Women's Championship DVD
The Hounds Of Justice Documentary: Featuring Seth Rollins, Dean Ambrose and Roman Reigns


----------



## Jupiter Jack Daniels (Jul 18, 2011)

A Kurt Angle documentary

A Dudley Boyz documentary

Best of Tuesday Night Titans

A Jerry Lawler/Memphis documentary, which is actually in the works

Some type of compilation of lost, forgotten or unseen matches

A Greatest Rivalries DVD featuring the Von Erichs vs. Freebirds (Kevin Von Erich & Michael Hayes) and one featuring Dusty Rhodes & Ric Flair


----------



## DanielBlitzkrieg (Jul 10, 2014)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

A hardcore DVD (or DVDs) about the most hateful promos and backstage brawls, focusing on danger, excitement, and attitude.

DVDs about individual characters and in-depth kayfabe analyses of their past and psychology.

A DVD about trivia, statistics, &c., showing the segments that helped accomplish them.


----------



## Lord_Tensai_Mark (Apr 18, 2012)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

John Cena: The Poopy Joke Anthology


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> A story's greatness hinges on its outcome. End of debate. Let's talk about La Parka.
> 
> EDIT: 2016 hopefully, Brye


Best of luck, man. (Y)

And I agree with your first point however not so much the outcome but how the outcome is presented.

@Sharkboy, In WWE history, I'd rank him 6th. After Hogan, Austin, Rock, HBK & Taker. However I'm sure people could make easy arguments as to why that's wrong. But I'm sure this thread can have a much better discussion on this then if god forbid you posted a thread in the WWE section on it.


----------



## wwe4life20 (Jun 10, 2009)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*



96powerstroker said:


> What dvds would you Like WWE to produce.
> 
> Id Like for them to produce more History of other championships
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


I also agree, that they should create more history of other championships. And I think it would be cool if they created A best of/ anthology dvd's of different type of matches similar to how they did the WWE Best of Hell in A Cell and the best of steel cage matches, but with other matches like First Blood, Last man standing, Street Fights, Iron man matches, I quit matches etc. I also think they should create a sting autobiopgraphy with his favourite matches with new interviews from sting himself on his career. And maybe even a DVD disc set of Kanes most deadly matches from the start of his career till now with matches such as his inferno matches, hell in a cell, last man standing, ambulance matches etc. Finally I would love to see a best of the WWE Divas 3 or 4 disc dvd set of all or most of the wwe divas, including a documentary of when the Diva's/ women's division started out in the wwe in the mid 80's, change from the women's division to the Diva's division and the divas of tomorrow etc. Featuring Diva's matches from the early days till now. Matches included with Diva's such as Mae Young, Fabolous Moolah, Bull Nakano, Sherri Martel, then the attitude era divas like Sunny, Sable, Jacqueline, Trish Stratus, Lita, Miss Kitty, Ivory Tori, then the now era like Victoria, Torrie Wilson, Dawn Marie, Stacy Kiebler, Molly Holly, Jazz, Christy Hemming, Mickie James, Michelle Mcool, Layla, Beth Phoenix, Maryse, Melina etc. as well as the Divas of today like A.J Lee, Bella Twins, Paige, Tamina Snuka, Natalya, Emma, Naomi, Cameron etc. and Finally have a chapter with some matches as well of the divas of tomorrow like Paige, Charlotte, Baley, Alexa Bliss, Sasha Banks, Carmen, Becky Lynch etc.


----------



## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

The Glen Jacobs Collection: Faking Diesel, Taking Teeth and Becoming Hells Favourite Demon.


----------



## JBLGOAT (Mar 24, 2014)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

Almost all of the superstar documentary style DVDs are interesting so any of those.

But specifically: JBL, Kevin Nash, Vince Russo, Justin Credible, etc. Anybody.


----------



## SpeedStick (Feb 11, 2010)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

- Top 25 WWE Divas Of All Time

- Simply Ravishing: Rick Rude's career 

- Booker T: Can You Dig It SUCKA!?

- Yo It's Me, It's Me, It's DDP

- Kurt Angle: Its Damn Real


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Brye said:


> Best of luck, man. (Y)
> 
> And I agree with your first point however not so much the outcome but how the outcome is presented.
> 
> @Sharkboy, In WWE history, I'd rank him 6th. After Hogan, Austin, Rock, HBK & Taker. However I'm sure people could make easy arguments as to why that's wrong. But I'm sure this thread can have a much better discussion on this then if god forbid you posted a thread in the WWE section on it.


That's exactly why I posted it here lol. I'm so glad I discovered this part of the forum a few years ago. Only downside, my post count isn't as high as it could be


----------



## Jmacz (Mar 11, 2013)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

They have to do a Bryan one eventually. I also think a Ziggler one would be cool, he has already gone through a lot. I'd also like to see some kind of behind the scenes NXT documentary.


----------



## The Regent Alien. (Jul 26, 2014)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

I would love it if wwe could gain the rights to the channel 4 documentary on
paige and her family. And put that on dvd.

And maybe a follow-up/sequel documentary on a second disc. One that
catches up with the family and whats going on with them today. 

And a commentary track with paige herself would be awesome as well.


----------



## JimCornette (Dec 18, 2013)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

Marrying the boss's daughter: Triple H's approach to moving up a company hierarchy 

Unfaithful: Lita, Edge, Matt Hardy

Dumb and Dumber: The Bella Twins 

A History of Violence: The Chris Benoit Story


----------



## DDP4LIFE (Aug 6, 2014)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

Steiner Brothers dvd


----------



## DDP4LIFE (Aug 6, 2014)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

What we've been waiting for... 

Undertaker documentary, out of character


----------



## Jupiter Jack Daniels (Jul 18, 2011)

DDP4LIFE said:


> Steiner Brothers dvd


I would love that but it's pretty much impossible.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

sharkboy22 said:


> Here's a controversial topic I don't think we've ever discussed, or maybe we have and I was absent or have forgotten about it. Where does Cena rank in company history? I'm not talking about technical ability or any of that sort of stuff that has the average IWC member putting guys like Kenny Omega over the likes of Edge. I'm talking about from the entertainment standpoint. I'm talking about the impact he has had. Imo, the guy is one hell of a talent. Sure, most of his matches suck throughout the year but there's a reason why he's still going and Bryan isn't. He has to take care of his body. Plus, he's approaching 40. But when the lights are on bright, 9 times out of 10 Cena delivers. Heck, even in a random ass match on a random ass RAW with Cesaro the guy delivers as well.
> 
> Another impressive note on Cena's wrestler resume, imo, is his Dr. of Thugonamics gimmick. I also think John Cena's 2007 year is one of the best wrestler years ever. The guy has definitely earned his spot and i just wished people could look past the stupid gimmick and all the other crap that I even I hate about him. Hopefully, those boos are only because the character sucks. John Cena the big-time performer doesn't and I just wish more people could see that.





Ten years at the top means you have to be doing something right. Not only that, but every single performance is captured - every high, low and middle-ground. Despite being far more exposed than any other headlining act before him, and working at that disadvantage (or maybe because of it), he has become WWE's best big-time guy. He never quite had the impact of Hogan, but he has massively changed the booking strategy of WWE. He's a great a base in the ring as he is as a booking element. Never at the peak of Austin, but he's still one of the best and most reliable wrestlers in WWE, today. Probably a couple positions short of a top-5. He's had stinkers, but he's also the best opponent for a group of wrestlers. Punk, Bryan, Khali and Henry all had their best match against him, arguably. Almost ditto for Cesaro. Additionally he meshes well with almost any style, from quasi-puroresu (Sheamus/Cesaro) to playing mauler against high flyers (Mysterio/Bourne). I realise that may appear as a play on his technical ability, and missing the question, yet it's every reason why he's been a staple entertainment producer for the promotion.

Booking wise, is where he's been the game changer. It's no coincidence that the WWE are shading away from archetypal heel/face roles along the same time that their top babyface has such mixed reactions. His character is the vanilla superhero of wrestling with a physique that appeals to the female and child demographic. On the flip side, he's the very embodiment of what adolescent and young adults either are jealous of or despise. That dichotomy within every audience allows very easy builds to their matches or to create more superstars. Much like Ziggler remains relevant because of some continued misbelief that WWE are misusing him and continually place him within the dog house, Cena's opponents are most usually praised by the male demographic because they fit the bill of either being "Indy darlings" or guys they feel are misused and held back because Cena is constantly on top. Punk will never be the guy, but there's a very big reason why his merchandise and following was as large as it was. Without Cena and the WWE "vision", I doubt he would be as big a name as he became. For the most part, this split helps push PPV numbers as the male demographic want to see their guy win, while the opposite wish to see Cena, once again, overcome the odds. Face/face matches are also a lot easier to pull off, noting Cena's role. It may be a reaction to a position enforced by their viewers but, to the credit of WWE they have pulled this aspect off quite well. Moreover, Cena has been fantastic in this role and became a wrestler that never took too much of his opponents while never giving too much of himself out, either. Hanging with Cena makes you look better than you had before (Cesaro), and beating him automatically places your stock at a premium (Bryan/Lesnar). 

With seemingly no change in the rebellious "cool guy" persona of the male demographic, it would be foolish to think Reigns will not become the next Cena. I dislike comparisons such as "the next XX", but in this case I can't imagine it being more true. Company headliners have a bigger role to fill than before, and will be eaten alive if they cannot keep up. WWE may be very push-stop in their booking, but there's a large reason as to why Cena has been a loner at the top for so long. Those are mighty big shoes to fill; shoes I'm not sure a lot of the idolised stars could have filled, themselves.






Chismo said:


> Hopefully someone manages to book that long anticipated Park/Wagner mask match that's been 10+ years in the making, but it's hard to overcome Wagner's gigantic ego and big money he requests for losing the mask. If they ever meet in a mask match, tho, I'd legit had an ambulance car and paramedics in the venue, Grim Reaper would be lurking like a motherfucker that night.
> 
> It was supposed to happen in AAA, I think, but then they both left. Typically drunken lucha stories.


Just to put into perspective how true this may be, here's a photo of Wagner after that match Chismo posted a little while up




Spoiler: brutal photo


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Taking everything into consideration Cena comes in at number 4 for me.

1 Austin
2 Hogan
3 Flair
4 Cena
5 The Rock


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

To hit on a point Rah made in his argument regarding Cena giving others their best matches: Punk I agree (MITB); Khali... well it's not saying much, but given how Cena was the opponent of his only GOOD match (JD 2007), then I agree too; Bryan if we're talking WWE exclusively then yes (SS), if not then nope; Henry I disagree. Henry's best match is the Cage match w/Bryan imo. 2nd is the post-WM 28 epic against Punk. And only then comes the Cena match. To each his own, though.

Which leads me to that other point - the GOAT himself giving almost everyone he wrestled their best match :bryan2: Bray Wyatt, Dolph Ziggler, Sheamus, Mark Henry, 2010's Randy Orton, 2010's Triple H, Roman Reigns, Bad News Barrett, Ryback, The Miz... testament to the badassness of DA GOAT. Impressive how in the span of 4 and a half years, Bryan has firmly established himself as one of the absolute greatest in-ring commodities in the company's modern and arguably entire history. His 2013 is a top contender for greatest in-ring run in WWE history imo. Even if he didn't have THAT classic yet for my money (but most of his matches are classics anyway). All while still being an entertaining (if generic for the most part) character, and (at his peak) a competent talker.

So... to celebrate the GOAT, top 10 WWE matches of Daniel Bryan Danielson (only singles matches)?
1) vs. Cena, SummerSlam 2013 (****1/2)
2) vs. Sheamus, Extreme Rules 2012 (****1/2)
3) vs. Punk, Over The Limit 2012 (****1/2)
4) vs. Ziggler, Bragging Rights 2010 (****1/2)
5) vs. HHH, WrestleMania 30 (****1/4)
6) vs. Orton, Raw 12/16/2013 (****1/4)
7) vs. Punk, Money In The Bank 2012 (****1/4)
8) vs. Wyatt, Royal Rumble 2014 (****1/4)
9) vs. Henry, Smackdown 11/29/2011 (****)
10) vs. Orton, Raw 2/3/2014 (****)

Obviously excluding his tag team stuff, otherwise I'd have to do a top 20 instead.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker gave Khali his best match actually. SD LMS. Though who knows, if I ever get back to these 2007 PPV's I might change my mind. :lmao

Cena certainly hasn't given Bryan his best match in WWE. There are a bunch of better Bryan matches. Outside of WWE, well, obviously it isn't even remotely close .

Henry? Hmmm... Bryan, Show, Benoit, Mysterio and yes, even BOOKER T probably had better matches than the Cena/Henry one, which I did love quite a lot. Likely forgetting some other great Henry matches too.

However I do agree that BEATING Cena is pretty much a high point of anyone's career these days no doubt, and a lot of guys who get in the ring with him definitely put more effort against him than they might normally do.


----------



## dave 1981 (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*

I'd like to see more "Greatest Rivalries" DVDs like Austin/Rock, Sting/Flair, Cena/Edge, Sting/Hogan, Rock/Triple H, Rhodes/Flair, Undertaker/Foley, Cena/Rock, Steamboat/Flair and Undertaker/Kane. All with in depth interviews on their on screen rivalries, how they got on backstage, how others perceived them and their work and any politics that were going on at that time.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> To hit on a point Rah made in his argument regarding Cena giving others their best matches: Punk I agree (MITB); Khali... well it's not saying much, but given how Cena was the opponent of his only GOOD match (JD 2007), then I agree too; Bryan if we're talking WWE exclusively then yes (SS), if not then nope; Henry I disagree. Henry's best match is the Cage match w/Bryan imo. 2nd is the post-WM 28 epic against Punk. And only then comes the Cena match. To each his own, though.
> 
> Which leads me to that other point - the GOAT himself giving almost everyone he wrestled their best match :bryan2: Bray Wyatt, Dolph Ziggler, Sheamus, Mark Henry, 2010's Randy Orton, 2010's Triple H, Roman Reigns, Bad News Barrett, Ryback, The Miz... testament to the badassness of DA GOAT. Impressive how in the span of 4 and a half years, Bryan has firmly established himself as one of the absolute greatest in-ring commodities in the company's modern and arguably entire history. His 2013 is a top contender for greatest in-ring run in WWE history imo. Even if he didn't have THAT classic yet for my money (but most of his matches are classics anyway). All while still being an entertaining (if generic for the most part) character, and (at his peak) a competent talker.
> 
> ...


:ex:

I plan on watching through a bunch of Danielson stuff soon, starting with his ROH Title run. :mark: Ill then move onto his WWE stuff, including some tags if i have them, and some stuff with The Shield. Ive also got his WHC run from 2011 too i would like to watch through.

Im still on my Nitro run atm though lol.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> Undertaker gave Khali his best match actually. SD LMS. Though who knows, if I ever get back to these 2007 PPV's I might change my mind. :lmao
> 
> Cena certainly hasn't given Bryan his best match in WWE. There are a bunch of better Bryan matches. Outside of WWE, well, obviously it isn't even remotely close .
> 
> ...


The only big name wrestler can think of who had their best match in the WWE with Cena is Umaga. Punks best match was with Lesnar, Bryan's best match was with Punk, Cesaros best match was with Zayn, Henry's best match was with Punk, etc. Etc. BUT, that's all subjective, all of those guys objectively did have GREAT matches with Cena. You can't deny that. When Cena is on he's unquestionably a great wrestler. Just watch his Raw match with Cesaro, he hangs with Claudio whose definitely one of the best workers in the world and even further he makes Cesaro look better than in any previous match he had on the Main Roster. Bryan is the guy who can give everyone on the roster their best match, but Cena is the only guy who can consistently elevate his opponent should he chose to do so. That's a skill, and Cena does it better than anyone these days.


----------



## -Skullbone- (Sep 20, 2006)

Good analysis by *Rah*. I think this point is one of the most interesting to discuss:



Rah said:


> Booking wise, is where he's been the game changer. It's no coincidence that the WWE are shading away from archetypal heel/face roles along the same time that their top babyface has such mixed reactions. His character is the vanilla superhero of wrestling with a physique that appeals to the female and child demographic. On the flip side, he's the very embodiment of what adolescent and young adults either are jealous of or despise.


This is both a positive and negative contribution from Cena towards the WWE (and I guess pro wrestling to an extent) in my mind. In some ways, they've struck a very interesting dynamic by having such a divisive act continue to headline and make the company an abundant amount of money. In response to the original question raised by *Sharkboy22*, Cena's financial benefits for the company surely would put him up there with (or near) the Top 5 big names of WWE history. 

In saying that, I won't ever be able to state what number I think he should be placed in the Top 5 list or anywhere else beyond that. Frankly, I consider the guy deserving of #1 is the 'one' who has drawn the most money and has garnered the most attention for the product in its history. That's just my very simple philosophy though. There's no clear cut answer to who the biggest name was/is, so I can't really approximate where Cena will sit in comparison to the likes of Rock, Hogan, Austin, etc. We'll just say he's a really big name nowadays and a bonafide legend, kay? 

At the same time, any glowing appraisal I have for Cena has to be met with some cynicism over his role. Just as a way to balance out the ledger. It's true that his position over the years will likely have a long-lasting effect on how the company handles face and heel archetypes, but one has to take into account the numerous glaring flaws the company has nowadays. This will very likely affect how they'll attempt to achieve these changes. 

For starters, they can barely write a narrative or story for shit. They struggle to create characters or personalities of genuine substance or longevity. I don't trust their abilities to be able to walk a fine line of grey and generate compelling viewing with such ambiguous themes in mind. The way Cena manages to do this is through long-lasting conditioning effects. That "interesting dynamic" of his character I discussed earlier was not by design after all; it was the result of the man's talents as a wrestler being brought into question by 'smarter' audiences and them expressing hatred at his position over many years.

They capitalized on it well and even profited off it, but it's another one of those exceptional cases where the company (or Vince) will get credit for 'masterminding', as opposed to them simply stumbling into a volatile situation and being opportunistic to some degree.

On that note: 



> With seemingly no change in the rebellious "cool guy" persona of the male demographic, it would be foolish to think Reigns will not become the next Cena. I dislike comparisons such as "the next XX", but in this case I can't imagine it being more true. Company headliners have a bigger role to fill than before, and will be eaten alive if they cannot keep up. W*WE may be very push-stop in their booking, but there's a large reason as to why Cena has been a loner at the top for so long. Those are mighty big shoes to fill; shoes I'm not sure a lot of the idolised stars could have filled, themselves.*


The primary concern I have for the company's future right now is how the over-reliance on the golden boy has resulted in a generation of wrestling 'stars' not truly ready to tackle stardom. Moreover, the path to becoming a star has to be met with some obstacles and being able to get through them relatively unscathed at first (with tight protection at first, of course), before their brand can become fireproof for the most part. Cena did this many years ago, but he was arguably the last one who experienced it. They wanted to push him as 'the' guy, and boy have they done that. 

You don't see that dedication or trust extended from the company towards these new guys. There has to be an adjustment period for each guy (or girl, to a much lesser degree), but the path seems like it has to be so much more...immediate these days. Either you'll be another Cena in the next five months, or you won't be and you'll _never_ be as big as him, so do us all a favor and fuck off.

What makes this conundrum worse is that Cena's superman-esque aura has really soured a lot of people towards how a top face (hell, any babyface) should be booked strongly. Some people see a strong winning record for an up-and-coming guy/girl and they'll cry out "superman, superman!" Many don't look at winning faces anymore as even being likeable. This formula has turned a lot of people away because it was so obviously showcased in Cena's time on top. 

With Cena also being a key representative of the much-maligned 'PG era' it also comes as little surprise to see many heels over the past 5 or so years being made to look rudderless and cartoon-y when battling a face character. They're often looking like a loser at the wrong points of a feud, which is more to do with how bad creative/Vince have become at maintaining a feud's duration than anything else. There's just been such little heat at certain yearly intervals and it's something I think reflects on Cena's 'fruity pebbles', vanilla heroism that signals what this era's been about for many.

He's an interesting one to discuss, that Cena. I think for as much good that he's done there are also a dungheap of negative factors that could be telling for the company in the long-term future as well. That remains to be seen. As a WWE wrestler, he's got a body of work that is far too strong for anyone to ignore. He really should tighten up how he performs certain moves though. He's never been great in that area.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Event: WCW Clash of the Champions #35
Date: August 21, 1997
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
Arena: Municipal Auditorium
Attendance: 4,122*

*United States Heavyweight Title Match: Steve McMichael vs Jeff Jarrett* *
*No Disqualification Match: Raven vs Stevie Richards* *1/2
*World Television Title Match: Alex Wright vs Ultimo Dragon* ***
*World Cruiserweight Title Match: Chris Jericho vs Eddie Guerrero* ***1/2 Should have been given as much time as the Wright/Dragon match.
*Psicosis, Silver King, Villanos IV, and V vs Juventud Guerrera, Super Calo, Hector Garza, and Lizmark Junior* **
*Ric Flair and Curt Hennig vs Konnan and Syxx* *3/4
*World Tag Team Title Match: Scott Hall and Randy Savage (subsituting for Kevin Nash) vs Diamond Dallas Page and Lex Luger* **1/2

Final Clash. It did end with one of THE GOAT MOMENTS: :mark:

x1bdox8


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

2010 - Muney in the Baynk

SmackDown MITB
This is my second time watching a bit of the PPV because I didn’t write anything the first time and wanted to write something. What I remembered about this here match was that it was long and had a billion shitty ladder match clichés. Yeah, it’s long and has a billion shitty ladder match clichés. It may have had the most rolls to the outside of the ring of any match I can remember. Any move, any time – there was somebody rolling to exit the ring. That’s a cliché gripe on a cliché in ladder matches, but getting stabbed in the leg would only suck a tiny, tiny bit less if it happens to you multiple times. Cole said his pick for the match was Christian, and when Christian was launched into a ladder Lawler said ‘’you may want to change your pick’’, and that’s the kind of shit that bothers me in these ladder matches. I’d assume Lawler said that because he thought the spot would impact Christian and affect his chances on the match. But really, it doesn’t. He might lay there for a while but these should-be big spots are just afterthoughts. How many spots in this did somebody come into the ring after being outside of it and have me go ‘’oh yeah, how’d he get taken out again?’’ Bleh. Be creative, ffs. McIntyre was the saving grace of this. Do people need to exit the ring? Throw them into the ring post. See that? They hit the ring, it hurts, and they slide to the outside without forcefully rolling out themselves. I’d rather not have the Your Exit, My Entrance thing to begin with, but at least that I can buy a little more. Drew hasn’t got the best mannerisms and his ‘’aggressive nature’’ stuff can be forced, but in a match so filled with stuff I don’t care about, he manages to be the constant highlight and just go on an assault. And then of fucking course Kofi Kingston gets to take McIntyre out in one of the shittiest of the shitty ladder match clichés – the sky-high announce table leg drop. Fuck you. Could have been worse, I guess; for the stupidest spot in the entire match had Christian and Matt Hardy struggle over the briefcase before literally both jumping backward down to the floor at the exact same moment. I had to rewind it to make sure what I saw was what actually occurred. I kind of thought this sucked overall but it had positives. The Big Show was treated like a true giant, and if anyone’s going to make people roll out of the ring with one move that shouldn’t make them roll out of the ring – it’s him. Beginning where he couldn’t climb the ladder b/c too PHAT was a fun watch. His final appearance being a burial of ladders after being chucked out of the ring was just about all you could ask for. I do appreciate like that this did a good job treating the Big Show like a giant, but that doesn’t make a good match. This is 45 minutes long right? Watched it twice. Will never watch again. NOT ADDING.

The Divas Champion v. Eve
Alicia Fox. That’s who it is, Alicia Fox. Beginning of this had a great collar and elbow. Rough movements, scrunched faces, no clear winner, surprise arm drag. Looked like a real struggle, you know? Rest of it could have been good if Alicia’s work over lasted longer and had a proper Eve comeback instead of two decent spots and Eve insisting on doing random bullshit. Guess I can’t really complain about it, though. NOT ADDING.

The Hart Dynasty v. The Usos
“David Hart Smith”. Forgot how silly that sounds. I could mention the three spots in this I thought were OK, but they’re basically only worth mentioning because I thought the rest of the match wasn’t worth thinking about. Still don’t get Tyson Kidd’s appeal. And by that I mean he is an amazing fightingest technician and surely goes down as the greatest wrestler of all time, folks. NOT ADDING.

Rey Mysterio v. Jack Swagger
This did a great fucking job of having Rey limp around vulnerably while also popping everywhere to make sure Swagger couldn’t get a base offense. Also did a great fucking job of having Swagger target the ankle, but not actually get it that often because of Rey’s frantic escaping (his kicks looked vicious, on that note). This had me from the get-go when Rey was looking worried and limping and Swagger had has high school jock wrestler position aiming toward the injured leg. Only got better from there, and I thought this was well on its way to being better than the SD match. Rey giving a revenge shove while almost tripping over looked completely phenomenal and is exactly my kind of subtlety in wrestling. They threw in a couple of sub-accidental leg-hurty spots like the belly-to-belly and Rey’s own high risk moves. This didn’t continue to be *as* good as the beginning would suggest it probably should have been. I wouldn’t say it fell apart, but the final bits were a liiiiitle anticlimactic. Still had cool shit, like the hurricanrana into the ring spot. Shame it was treated as an afterthought just to act as a shitty gateway to that lame as fuck second rope DDT spot. What impression have I given about my opinion of this? Short story: loved it, last two minutes could have been better just to match the rest of it. And ditch that botched Samoan drop thingy. ADDING.

Rey Mysterio v. Kane
You know I truly forgot Kane cashed it in here. I didn’t even see it coming when he saved Rey from Swagger. Spoiler: ends in a time limit draw. NOT ADDING.

Layla v. Kelly Kelly
Jesus Kelly is a screamer. I completely appreciate how angry she was acting in this (there may have been a feud or something?), but holy fuck, she makes Kyoko Inoue look like a mute. Pretty sure by the end she was screaming while doing wrestling moves like a jack-knife pin. This was decently intense, but Kelly came off really forced. I mean, honestly, I could completely picture her acting exactly like that if she was exactly that angry in real life, but…..but…come to think of it I’m not sure why I think that looked forced, actually. Was it that I thought she was acting exceptionally and irrationally high-school-ish for a babyface? Hey, guess what? Don’t care any more. NOT ADDING.

Raw MITB
Writing this during the entrances, don’t even know who’s in it. Orton? Miz? Boooo- HENRY! Oh fuck, no, noooooo. Is it? Yep, it’s DiBiase. I’ll expect stomps galore. When was the last time I watched a John Morrison singles match? Might have only watched one since the end of 2012. Not excited to see Jericho. Didn’t even realise he was still with the company at this point. EVAN BOURNE finally somebody else to look forward to. AND LOOK, ANOTHER PERSON TO LOOK FORWARD TO – EDGE! SARCASM. This everyone? Unless they bust out a ten minute Henry/Bourne in the middle for no reason, I’m guessing I won’t like this. 
--*watches match* Wow, wrote all of that before the match even started. I’ll make it up by writing the rest in dot point form:
-I saw more roll-out-of-the-rings than in the SD MITB. Many more.
-I saw Jericho attack the Miz, then start setting up a ladder before he was even finished (and the Miz obviously went after him).
-I saw the Miz stop Morrison from suplexing DiBiase on a ladder even though it didn’t benefit him whatsoever.
-I saw DiBiase set a ladder upside-down (?????????????!) next to an already-set up ladder, then plant another between the upside-down ladder and the ropes. This achieved nothing.
-I saw Maryse attempt to climb ladder even though, like, duh, she isn’t in the match.
-I saw Bourne come into the ring, knee Mark Henry in the face, and then roll out of the ring on the way as if he was hurt. Really.
-This was total, utter, complete putrid wet ass leakage. ½ of a star would be too much for it.
NOT ADDING. 

Sheamus v. John Cena
This had that problem of Cena being tired and drowsy after seemingly nothing. I dunno what it is but I see him breathing heavy and struggling to get up, and I’m like ‘’dude, he stomped you twice.’’ Then after acting like he has no lungs he sprints out with that shoulder block shit. Still not sold on 2010 Sheamus. I’m starting to think I was seriously right back then calling him fucking boring. Cena brought some life to this for a second by interrupting Sheamus’ bullshit with a clothesline right before stumbling into the ropes. That was cool. Taken as a whole, the match was pretty average. I felt emotionless while watching most of it. I think a match like this is why I probably wouldn’t ever consider Cena a top 100 guy (for a random example of what I’m trying to say). He just has SO many matches like this that leave no positive impression (or impression in general) on me other than his immediate selling and maybe the odd cool spot. Oh, this was a cage match btw. I think the Nexus spend an hour trying to convince the refs to give them the door unlocky thing or w/e despite the fact the cage had no roof. NOT ADDING.

Overall thoughts: Sucked. Haven’t found a good PPV yet. Do any exist this year?

Current list:



Spoiler: WHATTUP?



1.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (SmackDown 2/12/10)
2.	John Cena v. Batista (Extreme Rules 4/25/10)
3.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Over the Limit 5/23/10)
4.	Jack Swagger v. Rey Mysterio (SmackDown 6/11/10)
5.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/16/10)
6.	Rey Mysterio v. Jack Swagger (Money in the Bank 7/18/10)
7.	Christian v. Ezekiel Jackson (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
8.	Christian/Kane v. William Regal/Ezekiel Jackson (ECW 1/26/10)
9.	Shawn Michaels v. The Undertaker (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
10.	William Regal v. Evan Bourne (SuperStars 3/4/10)
11.	Chris Jericho v. Evan Bourne (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
12.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Extreme Rules 4/29/10)
13.	The Undertaker v. Rey Mysterio (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
14.	Drew McIntyre v. Kaval (SmackDown 9/10/10)
15.	Kofi Kingston v. Drew McIntyre (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
16.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
17.	d
18.	d
19.	d
20.	d
21.	d
22.	d
23.	d
24.	d
25.	d


Other contenders:


----------



## 96powerstroker (Mar 13, 2013)

When he retires & goes into the HOF id pay good money for a proper 7 disc Undertaker dvd.
1 is a documentary from the early years till his HOF speech. 
2 is his before WWF stuff.
3 is his WWF debut till 96.
4 96- end of ministry.
5 american badass - 06.
6 06-whenever he retires.
7 promos, interviews & vignettes & all


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Simpsons Modern Life (May 3, 2013)

An underrated talents DVD, giving credit to the wrestlers that don't get as much credit as they should do ... maybe have fans interact with it and votes/suggest who they would like to see mentioned in it and the talents discussing it, any talents from any era's up until today.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Well shit you guys didn't leave much meat on the bone talking about Cena with your excellent points, so that leaves me with what I feel is a pro/con list of Cena's career

Pros: The importance of Cena to WWE's ambitions of being a global entertainment juggernaut cannot be overstated. This man has the LOOK of a good guy who potential partners would see and think of WWE as a stand-up company and not the hillbilly stereotype, Cena has had extreme WILLINGNESS to go through with meeting these people and growing WWE's global visibility through being the wwe rep of partnerships (hell he even took his own initiative to hotshot WWE's partnership with Susan G. Coleman and in his very small offtime fucking learns Mandarin Chinese in hopes of being able to communicate over there to increase WWE's presence in the gargantuan market they are limited in), Cena has had the durability to last a schedule full time that is insane and yet still perform well. I'm not saying Cena is the reason WWE is frequently a number two or three "sport" if you will in so many countries, but he is the spearhead and deserves so much credit for going through this. Undertaking that mantle would break alot of guys who were adamant about not doing it like Batista, Orton and Punk.

Continuing with Cena's positives, he has been a gargantuan and reliable cash cow for the WWE. A very apt point I read someone else make once is that Cena contributed an urbanization factor to wrestling (This reigns very true from the time Cena won his first title to before the character embodied the morals of Clark Kent and he started dressing to market). I don't think anyone in the last thirty years can say this in a major wrestling company (which excludes a Public Enemy for instance). Hogan certainly didn't do it, Jim Crockett promotions' foundation was a southern style, The NWO could be argued, but I would argue that they were cool off of the concept of mass gang warfare taking over tradition and the production values suspending belief for many. People like to feel like they are a part of something fresh, and hence that is my argument for why the NWO was as rediculous hot as it was. Austin had a very blue collar, ******* "charm" if you will playing into his vicarious connection. Rock was cool based on his ability to manipulate audiences and especially hit wit on the stick. 


We aren't talking the artform/performance of wrestling, so while we could spend hours dissecting Cena's past and present deficiencies there, that isn't what sharkboy posed, so with that, I'd say Cena's biggest negative on the business that I can speak of is that he has created for years and maybe for years to come a glass ceiling for budding talents. Now, whether or not Cena has the stroke/opportunity to stop this and hasn't or whether Cena is the biggest politician of all time and spurs this on, I don't know because I'm not in that lockeroom/meetings and that isn't something to take hearsay on, but regardless it has to be addressed that whether Cena, Kevin Dunn or Vince is the direct cause, he has created a massive glass ceiling for anyone and seemingly any angle as we've seen time and time again as soon as something or someone gets hot, Cena gets involved and with the exception of Punk and Bryan, has badly spiraled some careers out of their course such as the knocking off of Bray Wyatt from a cornerstone heel position that remains to be seen if he will regain before WWE gives up ( Bray is so young and adaptable that I would say yes he will in time). Again, whether or not Cena spurs this or chooses not to stop it when he can ala this Rollins/Ambrose case of the hottest non title picture feud since well counting Michaels/Jericho as a title feud Hardy/Edge. 

In the exponentially larger world of wrestling, I could rattle off right now top of my head at least one hundred people that contributed more to the totality of wrestling than Cena, but in terms of contributions to the WWE, could only rank Sammartino, Hogan and Austin ahead of Cena. An argument could be made for the Hitman, but I feel his contributions to the business as a whole are greater than the company. While we all know his giant contributions to wrestling, Unless Taker releases a book one day or while I heavily doubt this, if Vince releases a massive volume of non bullshitted memiors (again I only think this would happen if Vince was dying and even then at this point I'm not sure that even Vince knows the realities and fictions of everything seeing how he has some link to damn near every major business controversy and has had to adapt several face saving stances spanning so long) ,I'm not sure if we will ever know the full importance Taker had to the company as a whole, especially keeping things glued together in the lean years. But to conclude, in company terms, I'd go
1. Sammartino
2. Austin
3. Hogan (remember we are talking individual company contributions not who was the bigger WRESTLING star or anything of the like so don't get pissy)
4. Cena


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Nice discussion guys (Y)

Anyway, I downloaded that Memphis set everyone was raving about a few pages back and I just can't get into it. The matches aren't in full goddamn it. As soon as I'm getting into a match, it cuts to several minutes later and I'm just taken out of it


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> 2010 - Muney in the Baynk
> 
> SmackDown MITB
> This is my second time watching a bit of the PPV because I didn’t write anything the first time and wanted to write something. What I remembered about this here match was that it was long and had a billion shitty ladder match clichés. Yeah, it’s long and has a billion shitty ladder match clichés. It may have had the most rolls to the outside of the ring of any match I can remember. Any move, any time – there was somebody rolling to exit the ring. That’s a cliché gripe on a cliché in ladder matches, but getting stabbed in the leg would only suck a tiny, tiny bit less if it happens to you multiple times. Cole said his pick for the match was Christian, and when Christian was launched into a ladder Lawler said ‘’you may want to change your pick’’, and that’s the kind of shit that bothers me in these ladder matches. I’d assume Lawler said that because he thought the spot would impact Christian and affect his chances on the match. But really, it doesn’t. He might lay there for a while but these should-be big spots are just afterthoughts. How many spots in this did somebody come into the ring after being outside of it and have me go ‘’oh yeah, how’d he get taken out again?’’ Bleh. Be creative, ffs. McIntyre was the saving grace of this. Do people need to exit the ring? Throw them into the ring post. See that? They hit the ring, it hurts, and they slide to the outside without forcefully rolling out themselves. I’d rather not have the Your Exit, My Entrance thing to begin with, but at least that I can buy a little more. Drew hasn’t got the best mannerisms and his ‘’aggressive nature’’ stuff can be forced, but in a match so filled with stuff I don’t care about, he manages to be the constant highlight and just go on an assault. And then of fucking course Kofi Kingston gets to take McIntyre out in one of the shittiest of the shitty ladder match clichés – the sky-high announce table leg drop. Fuck you. Could have been worse, I guess; for the stupidest spot in the entire match had Christian and Matt Hardy struggle over the briefcase before literally both jumping backward down to the floor at the exact same moment. I had to rewind it to make sure what I saw was what actually occurred. I kind of thought this sucked overall but it had positives. The Big Show was treated like a true giant, and if anyone’s going to make people roll out of the ring with one move that shouldn’t make them roll out of the ring – it’s him. Beginning where he couldn’t climb the ladder b/c too PHAT was a fun watch. His final appearance being a burial of ladders after being chucked out of the ring was just about all you could ask for. I do appreciate like that this did a good job treating the Big Show like a giant, but that doesn’t make a good match. This is 45 minutes long right? Watched it twice. Will never watch again. NOT ADDING.
> ...


Some day you're going to have to explain to me why, with all the awesome wrestling out there to pick from, you chose to relive all of WWE in 2010. That year is just trash, trash trash trash. Absolutely nothing good comes from it, really. Even the Undertaker was bad that year. Is it just that you've seen everything else but missed that year? Is it that you are a masochist and enjoy watching bad wrestling? Is it that you've finally gone completely insane? I've gotta know dude, it's been bugging me :lol


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

lol no, WWE has plenty of good stuff from 2010 match wise, That year is a (Y) just from the sheer fact of a man named Rey Mysterio


Excellent post by Rah


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I can't believe some people actually hate the SD 2010 MITB match. Is that a general consensus? Am I the only one who likes it and considers it to be one of the best?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Nope. I also adore that Smackdown 2010 MITB, top 5 one ever for me alongside the original, Smackdown 2011, WHC Contract 2013 and this year's match.

Speaking of this year's match (because Rollins and Ambrose), I have an announcement - I'm bringing, in about a month's time, the first major LIST of this thread: *THE SHIELD PROJECT.*

*#BelieveInTheFuckingShield*


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Some day you're going to have to explain to me why, with all the awesome wrestling out there to pick from, you chose to relive all of WWE in 2010. That year is just trash, trash trash trash. Absolutely nothing good comes from it, really. Even the Undertaker was bad that year. Is it just that you've seen everything else but missed that year? Is it that you are a masochist and enjoy watching bad wrestling? Is it that you've finally gone completely insane? I've gotta know dude, it's been bugging me :lol


I think he only did it because Paramore fan told him that it was a really good year. Looks like Yeah now realizes how stupid of an idea it is to listen to Mr. Cody.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

The Shield :banderas

One of the GOAT factions. I don't care what anybody says. Their matches from PPVs to TV throughout 2013-2014 have been a pleasure to watch and have made 6-man tags a must see for me. Just plain awesomeness. :reigns :ambrose :rollins


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> The Shield :banderas
> 
> One of the GOAT factions. I don't care what anybody says. Their matches from PPVs to TV throughout 2013-2014 have been a pleasure to watch and have made 6-man tags a must see for me. Just plain awesomeness. :reigns :ambrose :rollins


Yep. I'm still in the middle of that Shield watch I talked about about a week ago or so. Such a good run. So good.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Some day you're going to have to explain to me why, with all the awesome wrestling out there to pick from, you chose to relive all of WWE in 2010. That year is just trash, trash trash trash. Absolutely nothing good comes from it, really. Even the Undertaker was bad that year. Is it just that you've seen everything else but missed that year? Is it that you are a masochist and enjoy watching bad wrestling? Is it that you've finally gone completely insane? I've gotta know dude, it's been bugging me :lol


I loved watching 2010 at the time because of the consistency of TV wrestling on SuperStars, and to a slightly lesser extent, SmackDown. I loved how a bunch of new guys like Masters and Gallows and McIntyre came out of nowhere and started being awesome, and vets like Christian, Goldust, Regal got to work matches with some time. Basically, everything lacking in WWE SuperStars since Masters left. I'm an ongoing list type of guy so I wanted to make one of those, and I thought I should watch every PPV in full so I can....get a full picture, maybe? At this point I'm not sure why I'm watching every PPV in full. Maybe to prove I am not a Cal Scale wuss who NOs things because he doesn't like Booker T. WUSS. I haven't gotten to most of the best TV stuff yet (b/c despite doing this for a year I've watched very little), and I'm watching TV things chronologically (at least by month) so IDK when I'll get there, but the best stuff is really, really, really good. I think my top 3 right now will stay in the top 10, but the rest will be shoved way down. My current #10 won't be in the top 25, I can basically guarantee it. Rey/Knox, Rey/Gallows, Masters/Ziggler, Masters/Chavo, Danielson/Miz, Masters/Gallows, Masters/McIntyre, McIntyre/Christian (the one I have in top 5 right now is probably their 3rd best match), McIntye/Hardy, Regal/Smith, Sheamus/Morrison, Regal/Goldust...dang, more awesome matches than I even remember. And a bunch I never even got to see.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Does anyone remember Bill & Doug? Those two delusional TNA fans that used to make the videos? I just came across one and they're just as awful as I remember. :lmao

Does anyone remember the name of that other guy that faked his death?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I loved watching 2010 at the time because of the consistency of TV wrestling on SuperStars, and to a slightly lesser extent, SmackDown. I loved how a bunch of new guys like Masters and Gallows and McIntyre came out of nowhere and started being awesome, and vets like Christian, Goldust, Regal got to work matches with some time. Basically, everything lacking in WWE SuperStars since Masters left. I'm an ongoing list type of guy so I wanted to make one of those, and I thought I should watch every PPV in full so I can....get a full picture, maybe? At this point I'm not sure why I'm watching every PPV in full. Maybe to prove I am not a Cal Scale wuss who NOs things because he doesn't like Booker T. WUSS. I haven't gotten to most of the best TV stuff yet (b/c despite doing this for a year I've watched very little), and I'm watching TV things chronologically (at least by month) so IDK when I'll get there, but the best stuff is really, really, really good. I think my top 3 right now will stay in the top 10, but the rest will be shoved way down. My current #10 won't be in the top 25, I can basically guarantee it. Rey/Knox, Rey/Gallows, Masters/Ziggler, Masters/Chavo, Danielson/Miz, Masters/Gallows, Masters/McIntyre, McIntyre/Christian (the one I have in top 5 right now is probably their 3rd best match), McIntye/Hardy, Regal/Smith, Sheamus/Morrison, Regal/Goldust...dang, more awesome matches than I even remember. And a bunch I never even got to see.



I suppose I shouldn't have called 2010 as a whole "trash" as I haven't actually seen everything there is to see. I've only seen a select few Superstars matches and maybe half of Smackdown. I can say I've seen almost all of Raw and I hated it, and I've seen most if not all the PPV's and those too were pretty bad outside of a select 1-2 like ER and WM. I started watching wrestling again after a several year layoff in 2009, and I thought on the whole that year was pretty decent, Smackdown especially was good. But I do remember a noticeable downturn in 2010 especially in the fall. I just hated the main event scene and all the feuds seemed passionless or pointless. There just isn't anything special that comes to mind about 2010. Maybe I should watch more Superstars and ECW to change my opinion. If I were to pick a random WWE year to go through 2010 would be pretty low on my list. Oh well just thought I'd ask thanks for explaining


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Brye said:


> Does anyone remember Bill & Doug? Those two delusional TNA fans that used to make the videos? I just came across one and they're just as awful as I remember. :lmao
> 
> Does anyone remember the name of that other guy that faked his death?


I remember that they later denounced TNA and became ROH and UFC fanboys :lol

I think the guy that faked his death was named Kent Jones, but I'm not sure. Man, I used to watch a lot of YouTube IWC members back in the day lol


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

:lmao YES, it was Kent Jones. That guy was hilarious.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I remember watching videos from MBWrestler87 and Truthslayer back then. I guess that was my first introduction to becoming a "smark" :lol


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## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Never really watched much YWC.

WrestlingJesus is GOAT and I watched some smarkbusters earlier this year for a bit but just stopped caring after a while because they said a lot of dumb shit among the comedy found in their videos. There was also this OffTheRopes channel I think. Was directed to a "Reasons why Randy Orton sucks" video by them back in '11 and it was so stupid that I just stopped right before I started until people started posting WJ vids on this forum a year or two ago.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Never really watched much YWC.
> 
> WrestlingJesus is GOAT and I watched some smarkbusters earlier this year for a bit but just stopped caring after a while because they said a lot of dumb shit among the comedy found in their videos. There was also this OffTheRopes channel I think. Was directed to a "Reasons why Randy Orton sucks" video by them back in '11 and it was so stupid that I just stopped right before I started until people started posting WJ vids on this forum a year or two ago.


You always know it's gonna be a good video when the like/dislike bar is like 50/50.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Holy shit, you guys are really taking me back with the YWC. I remember I really got into it around the time of January 4th, brother! As a matter of fact, the whole reason I signed up for WF was to talk about the the MNW part 2 lol. 

I used to watch Truthslayer, Bigratthreeten(what a mark. And how old is this fucking guy? Looks like 13 in ever video) and some guy who had a really, really fucked up mic. Ah, those were the days.

But to hell with Youtube, how many of you were on Yahoo Answers? That shit was my home!

EDIT: PsPower! That's the motherfucker with the fucked up mic.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Brye said:


> Does anyone remember Bill & Doug? Those two delusional TNA fans that used to make the videos? I just came across one and they're just as awful as I remember. :lmao
> 
> Does anyone remember the name of that other guy that faked his death?


oh my god I actually remember these guys :lmao

I WATCHED THIS VIDEO 6 YEARS AGO :lmao


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Bigratthreeten was one of the better Youtubers. Not sure I agreed with his opinions too often but he could argue coherently and with a factual grasp. Otherwise everyone else I watched were guys I knew from Puroresu.tv, and found their videos to be continuations of the valuable knowledge they showed in their posts.

I have been toying with the idea of starting my own account similar to Mystery Science Theatre 9000 (with less overriding commentary). That may just be a cry for help, though.


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## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I suppose I shouldn't have called 2010 as a whole "trash" as I haven't actually seen everything there is to see. I've only seen a select few Superstars matches and maybe half of Smackdown. I can say I've seen almost all of Raw and I hated it, and I've seen most if not all the PPV's and those too were pretty bad outside of a select 1-2 like ER and WM. I started watching wrestling again after a several year layoff in 2009, and I thought on the whole that year was pretty decent, Smackdown especially was good. But I do remember a noticeable downturn in 2010 especially in the fall. I just hated the main event scene and all the feuds seemed passionless or pointless. There just isn't anything special that comes to mind about 2010. Maybe I should watch more Superstars and ECW to change my opinion. If I were to pick a random WWE year to go through 2010 would be pretty low on my list. Oh well just thought I'd ask thanks for explaining


Don't worry bro, in four years you will have my super cool list to go off of on what to watch. :woolcock



Rah said:


> I have been toying with the idea of starting my own account similar to Mystery Science Theatre 9000 (with less overriding commentary). That may just be a cry for help, though.


We'll make a show where we commentate over Tajiri matches. And that IWRG ladder fuckball.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Best Wrestling youtuber is GoodMicWork. Very knowledgeable on wrestling and is unbiased and honest.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

Brye said:


> Does anyone remember Bill & Doug? Those two delusional TNA fans that used to make the videos? I just came across one and they're just as awful as I remember. :lmao
> 
> Does anyone remember the name of that other guy that faked his death?


lol, yeah I remember them. Their videos used be featured on TNA's website. Then they turned on them.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ain't none of those fuckers got anything on BRUCE BLITZ 8*D The YWC is a world of hilarity.

This Goddamn Shield project :banderas So much GEMZ. So much AWESOME. Some awesome matches I didn't even knew existed. And today, I end that journey :mark:

Maybe you'll be getting that Shield project list started today...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Looking forward to that list ATF. Really want to watch some Shield stuff myself soon too.

-----------------------------------------

Watching the *1st September 1997 episode of Nitro*, Hall and Savage take over the commentary booth, Zybysko stands his ground whilst they spout off on the mic. He then delivers this little nugget towards Hall:

"You must have been hanging about with Hogan, you have something on your nose."


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Though question for you guys: do you want me to release the FULL list, or just a top 100 or 50? Viewer's choice here


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

What about a Top 1?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

What about a FUCK YOU THIS IS THE SHIELD WE'RE TALKING ABOUT? :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rah said:


> What about a Top 1?


:lmao wish I could rep you again but I gotta spread, and I ain't no whore when it comes to giving rep so... I'll rep you in about 2 months when I've repped enough people to get back to being able to rep you.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I'll give you something to rep..........................................Sting sucks.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cal repped me once a year ago. He probably hasn't spread enough to be able to rep me again if he tried to. :lmao

ATF, let me tell you something brother! :hogan2 Most of the posters in this thread are not fond of LISTZ~! If you're gonna make one, you're better off making a new thread here in the general section on it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

My current point in this Nitro episode.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Cal repped me once a year ago. He probably hasn't spread enough to be able to rep me again if he tried to. :lmao
> 
> ATF, let me tell you something brother! :hogan2 Most of the posters in this thread are not fond of LISTZ~! If you're gonna make one, you're better off making a new thread here in the general section on it.


Well yeah, I have noticed that. It was a cool trend about a year ago, though. Seems it overstayed its welcome.

But folks, you should open this section. Because SHIELD BITCH.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Was bored and decided to stick in a random Raw 2001 disc. Man, what a time 2001 was. Even with the Invasion Angle not being what it could have been, the TV shows every single week were non stop entertainment. This episode I watched was awesome. July... something. A week or so after the Invasion PPV. Starts with Heyman replacing Cole on commentary so the Alliance has a "non biased" announcer out there, and Tazz got SQUASHED by Jericho in like 20 seconds . RVD and Tajiri had a super fun hardcore title match, and it was the one featuring the epic moment of RVD doing his "R" "V" "D" thumbs thing and Tajiri just kicks him right in the fucking face :lmao. Mized tag wasn't anything special, but I did :lmao at Torrie Wilson missing her spot at the end. She was supposed to low blow Matt before he could connect with the Twist of Fate... but she looked confused and didn't come back into the ring, so Matt ended up hitting the move anyway, and THEN Torrie hit the low blow and Helms pops up no selling Hardy's finisher to roll up Matt for the win . Angle and Booker had a fucking GREAT match for the WCW title as Booker regains the belt he lost on SD the previous week. Good tag match with Edge & Christian against Kanyon and Storm. WHO BETTER THAN KANYON? That was then followed up with a pretty darn sweet CW + LW title unification match with X-Pac, in 2001, GETTING A FUCKING POP on his entrance. And finally a super fun tag team tables match with BOD Vs Dudleys.

And of course, throughout the night it's all HYPE~! for the return of The Rock, as everyone speculates which side he's gonna side with. Gives us plenty of fun backstage moments. He returns to the WWF, duh.

But man, overall, what a fucking show. And it was like this EVERY FUCKING WEEK back then.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yup. Its one thing i want to do one day, is get the TV's from WWF 2001 (Raw/SD).


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Not true. Everyone knows the show sucked in the second half of the year.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Not true. Everyone knows the show sucked in the second half of the year.


*It didn't. Post Survivor Series is awful but from KOTRish up until then is still good. Obviously it's a drop if you're comparing to the 1st half of the year but that 6 month period can match any 6 month period most likely. There's still a ton of great stuff in the second half of the year with Angle/Austin who produced awesome segments and matches and likewise with Rock/Jericho. Invasion stuff even had some good stuff if you view it a vacuum. *


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I liked 2001 TV stuff. Once some of the WCW/ECW guys start ending up in limbo it gets a bit lame but up until then it's really fun.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Seabs said:


> *It didn't. Post Survivor Series is awful but from KOTRish up until then is still good. Obviously it's a drop if you're comparing to the 1st half of the year but that 6 month period can match any 6 month period most likely. There's still a ton of great stuff in the second half of the year with Angle/Austin who produced awesome segments and matches and likewise with Rock/Jericho. Invasion stuff even had some good stuff if you view it a vacuum. *


I agree, once Vengeance/SVS happened things sort of fell off the rails, but everything from the Rumble up to and including Unforgiven in 2001 was pretty great. Sure the Invasion angle is one of if not the biggest missed opportunities in wrestling, but even still we were treated to great matches, storylines, and promos on a somewhat weekly basis for 75-80% of 2001. If they hadn't mishandled the Invasion angle so badly we would be discussing 2001 as the greatest year ever. As it is, it'll have to settle for Top 5 for me personally in the Raw/Smackdown era.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

That triple threat for the IC Title was great! ***1/2


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Gotta give the WWE credit for making the Intercontinental Title scene interesting. Great match.

You guys really need to rewatch 2001. After Summerslam, everything went kaputt. The match quality dropped compared to that incredible run of Austin and Benoit killing it. The Invasion angle sucked. The WWE botched the buildup of Angle, RVD, and Jericho. Rock phoned it in completely when he returned. PPVs dipped in quality. I don't know what the hell the WWE was trying to do with ECW and WCW wrestlers other than making them all look like jobbers. Undertaker was terrible until the very last month of the year. Austin stopped wrestling. Ric Flair for some reason was held out until AFTER the Invasion. The tag division got really dull because they kept recycling the same three matches that they did for two years. Edge and Christian's big feud flopped, as well as Edge's initial face run. Mick Foley cut a promo where he implied that the WWE wasn't as good as it was before. I don't remember anything about the Intercontinental Title scene or really any midcard scene for that matter. Really the only positives we got out of that back end of 2001 was Rock/Jericho, RVD's popularity, and parts of Kurt Angle's run before they made him turn face and heel more times than Big Show.

EDIT: Did Rosa Mendes botch a punch?


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Yeah ***1/2 for me too, really good match, loved the multiple roll ups spot.

Did they just split up the Wyatt's...on a vignette...?


----------



## Naka Moora (May 11, 2014)

RatedR10 said:


> That triple threat for the IC Title was great! ***1/2


Such a fantastic match man, really enjoyed it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

"How dare they call me unstable?" :lmao


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

How awesome is Ambrose?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Honestly didn't really like that promo and the payoff to Rollins getting back the briefcase. Ambrose should have used it to get HIAC out of Rollins for the PPV.

WWE really needs to change Ambrose's theme to something that, you know, gets a pop when it hits.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

RatedR10 said:


> Honestly didn't really like that promo and the payoff to Rollins getting back the briefcase. Ambrose should have used it to get HIAC out of Rollins for the PPV.
> 
> WWE really needs to change Ambrose's theme to something that, you know, gets a pop when it hits.



Ambrose's theme is just "meh" but Rollins is godawful. They need to go back to the drawing board with their themes, as they just don't cut it, at all. If WWE would just take their time before debuting themes it wouldn't be such a big deal. Ain't no way if Jim Johnson was still in charge we would have shit like the Rollins theme. The only one I've liked from this new group who does the themes is the musical part of the Harper/Rowan theme, that's one bad ass tune.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That Rowan/Harper theme is so damn good, but god damn that intro ruins nearly everything. Stardust's theme is really good too. I like some of the NXT themes as well. But there is no excuse for what they've done to Rollins and Ambrose.

God dammit, what the hell is Jesse Jackson doing on my television? The WWE brings in the biggest name ever to their show, and it has to be this fucker.

EDIT: FUCK! They show that fucker again. I'd rather watch Great Khali beat Undertaker cleanly than see that disgusting piece of trash on RAW.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Ambrose's theme is just "meh" but Rollins is godawful. They need to go back to the drawing board with their themes, as they just don't cut it, at all. If WWE would just take their time before debuting themes it wouldn't be such a big deal. Ain't no way if Jim Johnson was still in charge we would have shit like the Rollins theme. The only one I've liked from this new group who does the themes is the musical part of the Harper/Rowan theme, that's one bad ass tune.


Harper/Rowan's theme was done by Jim Johnston. Ambrose and Rollins' theme were done by CFO$.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Think I'm a fan of Big Show in this feud. Pulling down the flag might have been unneeded, though.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I have no complaints if Rusev/Show happens at HIAC. They had a good match on Smackdown and they'll have another one on PPV.

I said it on another board. If Rusev didn't start his run four months into the year and with a bunch of squash matches, he'd have a serious case for superstar of the year. Consistently good - great matches, fantastic selling and he has a great valet to do his talking for him to hide the weakness. He's great.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Decent RAW, but pales in comparison to the last ten or eleven Chicago RAWs. Right now this company is surviving on the backs of Ambrose, Rollins, Rusev, and Ziggler. More people need to step up. And too many divas segments.

And god fucking dammit, Jesse Jackson on a wrestling program. Fucking shit.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

RatedR10 said:


> Harper/Rowan's theme was done by Jim Johnston. Ambrose and Rollins' theme were done by CFO$.


idk how I feel about CFO$ so far. I like Enzo and Zayn's themes, however.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I like Harper/Rowan's theme. I could do without the "He's Got the Whole World in His Hands" intro but it's fine. I actually like Ambrose/Rollins' theme although I would've preferred if they didn't remixed them. Zayn's theme is catchy as hell and Enzo's theme fits his character. Why does Roman get the best theme out of The Shield members when it's just a remixed Shield theme?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Because Reigns is the next guy. So he gets the cool entrance through the crowd and the cool theme.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Well, didn't think they could suck the life out of the white hot Brose/Rollins feud, but stick Cena in there and presto! Real scared for this feud seeing how Cena isn't just crossing the arc, he is ENTERING the damn arc. Boy is that scary. Not to mention, I wonder if this Wyatt package is an indication that Bray, Rowan and Harper are amicably going their separate ways with Bray seemingly implying his work is done, or if Bray is moving to a primarily managerial position while they focus on Harper. If either of these are true, that is a damn shame. (note: All for Harper getting an individualized spotlight seeing how he has the most potential/arguably most talented of the bunch, but not at Bray's expense.) I hope this isn't the end of the full association of the Wyatts, as there was SO much more that could've been done here spanning years of character evolvement particularly when Vince steps down and that would kill Rowan. Probably overthinking though and this could be a reboot after the Cena disaster and Jericho not really moving the needle much.


----------



## kurtmangled (Jan 5, 2010)

Raw was terrible. I can't discuss it.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I still have hope that it will just be Ambrose/Rollins alone in a Hell in a Cell match. I would not accept it any other way, especially if Cena's in the mix.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Caught Raw. Who in the company is a worse promo than Nikki Bella?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Yeah1993 said:


> Caught Raw. Who in the company is a worse promo than Nikki Bella?


Don't know. Only person I can think of off the top of my head on her level of awfulness is her sister, Brie. The acting is abysmal between them.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

WrestlingOracle said:


> Well, didn't think they could suck the life out of the white hot Brose/Rollins feud, but stick Cena in there and presto! Real scared for this feud seeing how Cena isn't just crossing the arc, he is ENTERING the damn arc. Boy is that scary. Not to mention, I wonder if this Wyatt package is an indication that Bray, Rowan and Harper are amicably going their separate ways with Bray seemingly implying his work is done, or if Bray is moving to a primarily managerial position while they focus on Harper. If either of these are true, that is a damn shame. (note: All for Harper getting an individualized spotlight seeing how he has the most potential/arguably most talented of the bunch, but not at Bray's expense.) I hope this isn't the end of the full association of the Wyatts, as there was SO much more that could've been done here spanning years of character evolvement particularly when Vince steps down and that would kill Rowan. Probably overthinking though and this could be a reboot after the Cena disaster and Jericho not really moving the needle much.


I just want Ambrose/Rollins to end. Feud of the year, definitely, but now it's on life support and Cena doesn't help. The first part was so good with the build to Summerslam, but since Ambrose's return, it's just brawling. The MITB payoff tonight was so fucking weak with the green spray. Ambrose, IMO, became like every other babyface with that bit. He should have been smart and used it to get a HIAC match out of Rollins before laying him out with it. Instead, this all sets up Cena going over Ambrose and getting his hands on Rollins.

I don't know how much longer WWE plans to stretch this out, but I hope it ends soon. I don't even care anymore.



Yeah1993 said:


> Caught Raw. Who in the company is a worse promo than Nikki Bella?


Brie Bella.

Rusev is the GOAT promo.



StraightEdgeJesus said:


> I still have hope that it will just be Ambrose/Rollins alone in a Hell in a Cell match. I would not accept it any other way, especially if Cena's in the mix.


Nah. Lesnar hasn't been there to build anything for two weeks. We have three weeks left of build. Cena's getting the match most likely...ugh.

Legit, the only thing I'm looking forward to with current-state WWE is Rusev and Harper's single run. I've now accepted that Ambrose is just in his position as a filler until Reigns returns and they have no intention of doing anything worthwhile for him from now - Wrestlemania.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

If the reports of the winner of a Cena/Ambrose match getting a match with Rollins and the loser getting a match with Orton, I would gladly take watch the 1098th Cena/Orton match so I could watch Ambrose/Rollins in the Cell. Also, it has to be the main event. Ambrose and Rollins could definitely benefit from being in the main event in an awesome match showcasing their capabilities of being top superstars more than Cena/Orton.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Rusev is so much better than the generic big man I took him for in NXT. :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rollins/Ambrose is nowhere close to being on life support. For goodness sakes, their interactions get better crowd reactions than Brock Lesnar appearances.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Been skimming Raw, liked the triple threat. (Y)

Think I'm gonna hold off on the 2nd half until tomorrow though. Have a job interview tomorrow morning. Wish me luck guys.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Good luck Brye.
"I will bite your ear, pull out your guts, kick you in the groin and break every bone in your body!"
That promo may have historical implications. Has anyone ever channeled Tyson, The Iron Sheik and Bane in the same promo? Hell he half channeled Pinhead there with the guts ripping. Next week is Rusev going to complete that phase too by telling Show his suffering will be legendary. Some scary material right there considering the intense source.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Rusev is my favourite thing going in WWE.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Rollins/Ambrose is nowhere close to being on life support. For goodness sakes, their interactions get better crowd reactions than Brock Lesnar appearances.


Maybe life support is over-exaggeration, but I want to see some advancement. They've been brawling and stuck in the same point since Ambrose returned, and now that Cena's involved it pretty much ended any chance of the program advancing to the next point where Ambrose gets revenge. 

Cena... fpalm

I really just want it to end. Do Ambrose/Rollins inside HIAC and then move on. Maybe my interest in it is dying with the acceptance that Ambrose won't win in the end like the babyface usually should, I don't know. The life has just been sucked out of it for me.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Watched Rusev/Show from SD and found the match ok.
Like Rusev as a wrestler but i don't see him going anywhere with that gimmick.

I saw snippets of RAW...

I'm not an Orton fan but damn is it sad seeing him become a lackey for The Authority. IMO he was a placeholder originally in The Authority but he was WWE champion and barking out orders. I've gone from having no interest in Orton/Lesnar to wanting to see it. Orton gets away from The Authority and we get a Lesnar match that's fresh.
Kane getting fed up doesn't make sense cause he gave himself to The Authority.



RatedR10 said:


> I just want Ambrose/Rollins to end. Feud of the year, definitely, but now it's on life support and Cena doesn't help. The first part was so good with the build to Summerslam, but since Ambrose's return, it's just brawling. The MITB payoff tonight was so fucking weak with the green spray. Ambrose, IMO, became like every other babyface with that bit. He should have been smart and used it to get a HIAC match out of Rollins before laying him out with it. Instead, this all sets up Cena going over Ambrose and getting his hands on Rollins.
> 
> I don't know how much longer WWE plans to stretch this out, but I hope it ends soon. I don't even care anymore.


The green spray was made worse by the fact that Ambrose simply used the briefcase as bait to prank Rollins.
I don't watch SD but i saw a pic of Ambrose with the briefcase and was excited for what he'd do with it....and that's what he does :no:

and Cena's involvement is ridiculous, either the feud ends in a Triple Threat or they dragged this out for another month.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Still plenty of life left in Ambrose/Rollins imo. They have gone from being the best feud currently to actually being the main event feud, now that Brock is not there. As long as Cena doesn't get overly involved, I'm digging this.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Went through SuperStars in February 2010 and watched what interested me.

Evan Bourne v. Carlito (SuperStars 2/4/10)
Really fun match that came off like an Evan On Tour match akin to Matt Hardy, Christian or Mysterio working against a different heel in the company week after week. Evan's signature reversal moves work really well for that kind of match, as well. I like him jumping up to the opponent's neck and bringing him down using his body weight with his knees. He's got a pretty knee-based offense that differentiates him form every other WWE small guy working from the bottom. Does Carlito need a bit of a re-evaluation? I don't mean that in the sense that I give a shit enough to actually track down any Carlito, but I've had it ingrained into my head that he sucked, and he hasn't sucked yet in 2010. Not that I've watched a lot of Carlito for this thing. He was pretty good here. I liked his timing on the cut offs, and his big bootiness and shit made him look bigger than he is, and made Bourne look better as a result. Want to mention that I think Bourne makes the semi-overselling bumpy shit look better than Ziggler does. He has more of a float to it than an impactful rubber bounce; looked more appropriate for the not-big-yet-almost-looked-big-Carlito. I really wish Bourne would get clean, don a mask and work in the WWE as the Rey/Hardy/Christian replacement we've needed since 2011. NOT ADDING.

Christian v. Zack Ryder (SuperStars 2/11/10)
Christian pulls another good match out of his ass. Ryder had some moments to work over Christian, but this felt more like Christian's matches with Yoshi Tatsu or DH Smith than it felt like his matches with Regal or Swagger. It had less off an uphill battle theme to it then probably most other Christian matches on TV. I thought for sure they were going the uphill battle route when Ryder got the apron DDT, but it became more about ''who's the winner?'' than ''is Christian the winner?'' If that even makes sense. Almost felt like a decently big ECW main event title match (the main event of this show was Ziggler v. JTG, btw. No), with a solid crowd and a teased Ryder win over a champion. Christian basically made the whole thing by being Christian. Didn't think Ryder looked all that worthwhile. On offense he was only really interesting while countering a Christian counter. NOT ADDING.

Evan Bourne/Primo v. Carlito/Chavo Guerrero (SuperStars 2/18/10)
Man this kinda rocked. I really think I will stop saying Carlito sucks until I see otherwise. I guess all I saw him do here that I really liked was sell some kicks, but he sold some kicks really well so therefore NOT SUCK. Primo's FIP was largely missed by the commercial break which sucks a dick because I was enjoying his selling pre-commercial. He gets kicked in the side-rib (?) before the FIP and sells it by bending his body in that direction and curling his arm toward his side. Love stuff like that. Primo getting a chance to come back with some kicks (W/ CARLITO SELLING) only to fail in hitting a leg drop was badass. Lawler and Cole (when do they commentate SuperStars??) mentioned in passing how Carlito and Chavo couldn't put Primo away with their many pin attempts, most of which I missed because they had to advertise Elimination Chamber, and Chavo hits the Gory Bomb so it looks like he has the first real shot and getting the win. And I loved how he basically fucked himself over by pushing Evan off of the apron because Evan broke the pin up out of revenge and shit. Bonus points for the camera angle and ref placement making it look like Bourne came out of hammer space. Evan Bourne as a hot tag on two guys somehow worked. I love his knee to tha fuckin FACE more every time he does it. Daaaaang this was fun. I could see myself coming back to a few matches to consider adding them to the ''other contenders", and this would be one of them. As of now though I don't have a proper top 25 and I don't want to rank it. Why, exactly? Bite me. NOT ADDING.

Rey Mysterio v. Mike Knox (SuperStars 2/18/10)
Lawler and Cole are off commentary and replaced with Striker and Grisham. So, what? They were just there to commentate a tag and a divas match? Whatever. So I remembered this being awesome. It's better than remembered. This was a little more heel-dominated than Rey matches and I totally dug it. Rey made Knox's stuff look brutal as fuck and Knox made Knox's stuff look brutal as fuck and holy shit Rey took a tumble on that backbreaker. Mysterio sprints for his goddamn life every time he gets even the tiniest silver of a chance and Knox mops the floor with him every time. After realising he has no hope if he continues like this and immediately tries a 619. Commercial break fucks me over again by coming on right after the first real big spot of the match comes (ring post bearhug slam thing). I think I'm completely loathing mid-match ad breaks more than ever right now. Post-break Rey fights back some more and Knox actually continues to cut him off, before Rey gets an off-turnbuckle-to-outside seated senton to even the ground a little more. Knox's diving bear of doom looked fucking awesome here. I don't remember if I mentioned that he used it as an awesome surprise-spot in the Finlay match, but he did. And while it rocked I can't help but think while he's mid air for that split second he looks like an overfed domestic cat falling from a roof and spreading his legs to make sure he'll land the way his skinny brethren do. Here it was just a great big fuckin sploosh that did not resemble anything similar to Garfield. So Rey's vocal selling is great, huh? I'm trying to find original things to say about him. Whatever fuck it this was great. Only real complaint I have about it is that the finish could have built to much better. Fucking tell me Knox shouldn't be in the Wyatt Family right now. Didn't he have to go to TNA? Bite shit. ADDING.

William Regal/Jack Swagger v. Chris Masters/Santino Marella (SuperStars 2/26/10)
OK, did not know this was a thing. Regal and Masters? Did I ever whinge that this never happened? How didn't I think of that? Great, give me another dream match I won't ever get. Good news, though! I got to see Masters hit a punch and an elbow on Regal. This was all Santino; Masters got 70 second at the end. Some all right stuff on the whole, though. Regal going for the cobra hand was neat; Swagger should have kept that up. NOT ADDING.

Luke Gallows v. Jobber guy (SuperStars 2/26/10)
Haven't seen any Gallows for this yet, so I decided to watch this. Jobber guy tries him damndest to fight back and, IDK, ''make a name for himself'' or some other bullshit WWE phrase. Does he even have a name? Gallows throws a fuckin meeeeean right hand and a stupendous backbreaker, where he lands the guy practically between his shoulders. Looking more forward to the Rey/Gallows matches based on those two moves alone. Striker actually mentions that Gallows was Festus. Was that commonly brought up? NOT ADDING. 





Spoiler: WHATTUP?



1.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (SmackDown 2/12/10)
2.	John Cena v. Batista (Extreme Rules 4/25/10)
3.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Over the Limit 5/23/10)
4.	Jack Swagger v. Rey Mysterio (SmackDown 6/11/10)
5.	Christian v. William Regal (ECW 1/19/10)
6.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/16/10)
7.	Christian v. Ezekiel Jackson (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
8.	Rey Mysterio v. Mike Knox (SuperStars 2/18/10)
9.	Christian/Kane v. William Regal/Ezekiel Jackson (ECW 1/26/10)
10.	Shawn Michaels v. The Undertaker (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
11.	William Regal v. Evan Bourne (SuperStars 3/4/10)
12.	Chris Jericho v. Evan Bourne (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
13.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Extreme Rules 4/29/10)
14.	The Undertaker v. Rey Mysterio (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
15.	Drew McIntyre v. Kaval (SmackDown 9/10/10)
16.	Christian v. William Regal (SuperStars 1/14/10)
17.	Kofi Kingston v. Drew McIntyre (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
18.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
19.	d
20.	d
21.	d
22.	d
23.	d
24.	d
25.	d



Other contenders:


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

Shitty Raw. 
One fun match (triple threat) and that's all... 

But Rusev is amazing. I'm really happy with his push. 
Ambrose is always fun to watch.
And i'm starting to hate rollins so it's working!


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

They did Regal/Masters on the Wrestlemania Revenge international tour for 2010.

Not sure if footage will still exist as accounts get deleted and this was at a time when WWE actively enforced copyright claims. I can look to see if a search turns anything up but Vienna and El Paso, Texas is your best bet for someone recording these shows.


Edit: the house shows I watched/was going to watch from this year even got canned. Fuckers. Between them and the past few weeks, Cesaro was making a case for #1 again. Sigh.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Highlight of Raw was that Luke Harper vignette :moyes1

Finally the WWE are going back to what made The Wyatts cool and intriguing in the first place, rather than shitty nursery rhymes and nonsencial promos out of a cupboard.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Got the job. THE BOYHOOD DREAM HAS COME TRUE! :mark:

Almost done with Summerslam. Got the two big main events left which I remember saving the show.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao just watched that Booker/Jarrett match from WCW with the 4 wooden boxes on a pole and one of them having the world title in it. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2taco_booker-t-vs-jeff-jarrett-wcw-title_sport :lmao god its hilariously bad.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Reminds me of the TNA classic, Kaz vs BLACK REIGN (fat black goldust) with the four boxes with 3 mousetraps and MISTY the rat. :lmao

Also I'm gladly accepting our new Luke Harper push.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I beg WWE to abandon ship on this Sheamus/Miz set up (how dumb is it to have the mid-card title challengers just switch the titles they challenge for?) and bring in Harper to go against Sheamus for HIAC. Please? :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> :lmao just watched that Booker/Jarrett match from WCW with the 4 wooden boxes on a pole and one of them having the world title in it. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2taco_booker-t-vs-jeff-jarrett-wcw-title_sport :lmao god its hilariously bad.


The title then just fell out the box. :lmao


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Just watched Eddie/Rey from 06/23/2005 for the first time since it aired, so fuckin' good


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

RatedR10 said:


> I beg WWE to abandon ship on this Sheamus/Miz set up (how dumb is it to have the mid-card title challengers just switch the titles they challenge for?) and bring in Harper to go against Sheamus for HIAC. Please? :mark:


Harper vs Ziggler/Cesaro for the IC title and Rusev vs Sheamus for the US title please :mark: :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Triple Threat for the IC Title was great and quite different from traditional "you're in, I'm out" 3-ways in a quite good way. AMBROSE. Didn't really liked how the payoff for him stealing the briefcase was just for... that, but hell, I got a kick out of Ambrose throwing away merch and just generally being a badass all night long, because AMBROSE. Rusev and Show feud is interesting. Luke Harper breaking away from the Wyatts is... I don't even know, but if it's all for a singles run at the top of the mid/uppercard, I'm all for it. Ziggler/Harper at HIAC sounds :mark:.

Didn't care about anything else. I'm very, VERY scared for the Ambrose/Rollins' feud future w/Cena involved. I don't care what his defenders in his thread say about "it not being his fault" or "being beneficial to be in a feud w/the top star in the company" - and how many actually got away w/it anyway? Punk, Bryan... that's all I remember - everytime Cena is placed in some form of feud w/an up and comer, Cena is usually booked like fucking Superman and ruins the other guy's momentum. If that is the fate of Ambrose and Rollins, AKA if Cena goes over Ambrose and Rollins in the same night, this company can simply go fuck itself.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The most recent Monday Night Wars doc, "The Austin Era Begins" is pretty good. A lot of it is just rerun material from the Austin doc but there was enough new stuff to keep me entertained. The video ends with The Rock and Vince McMahon saying in unison "Austin is without a doubt the biggest star in the history of the wrestling business" which is pretty cool, as that's my opinion on the subject as well.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> The video ends with The Rock and Vince McMahon saying in unison "Austin is without a doubt the biggest star in the history of the wrestling business" which is pretty cool, as that's my opinion on the subject as well.


Create a thread on that and watch the mark wars continue lol.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Brock said:


> Create a thread on that and watch the mark wars continue lol.


:lmao


I'm 3 episodes in to the MNW series but for some reason I always find myself holding off on watching stuff with the fear of running out of things to watch. Despite the network have a shitload of stuff.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

RAVEN said:


> Harper vs Ziggler/Cesaro for the IC title and Rusev vs Sheamus for the US title please :mark: :mark:


I want Ziggler/Cesaro to have a one-on-one battle first. Hell, maybe include Miz and give them 15+ mins on PPV rather than the 9 mins they had on Raw, but I don't know, maybe the fact that it was shorter on Raw made it better since it didn't really give them time to do the traditional triple threat format with one guy one and then a singles match happening.

Rusev vs. Sheamus makes too much sense, I'm honestly baffled how it hasn't happened yet. I'm digging Miz's current character, but Harper/Sheamus and Ziggler/Cesaro as the two mid-card title matches for HIAC would be awesome.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rah said:


> They did Regal/Masters on the Wrestlemania Revenge international tour for 2010.
> 
> Not sure if footage will still exist as accounts get deleted and this was at a time when WWE actively enforced copyright claims. I can look to see if a search turns anything up but Vienna and El Paso, Texas is your best bet for someone recording these shows.
> 
> ...


Love how WWE take down matches that they themselves will never be able to release, right? RIGHT!?


Managed to find this; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezGU_Fu-Ygw


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

What would you guys call Ryback's best SINGLES match? (Pretty sure the 6-Man is unanimously his best overall.)


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

They may probably want Sheamus to lose the title to someone else first, since apparently you have to go full "USA! USA! USA!" to feud with Rusev.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Ad Infinitum said:


> What would you guys call Ryback's best SINGLES match? (Pretty sure the 6-Man is unanimously his best overall.)


Probably his match with Daniel Bryan. It was sometime last year during the summer with Bryan's hot run, IIRC.

I hope he comes back in a singles role. RybAxel is great, and the tag division needs teams, but Ryback should be in a singles role. I found he's worked on his cardio more and can work 10-15 minute matches without getting blown up quickly like he did early in his run.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ryback's best singles is definitely with Bryan. I believe it was on an episode of SD. Say what you want about DA BIG GUY, his name will go down in history as being part of one of the most important matches in WWE history- the 6 man TLC match. 

Also, I really hope they end this USA/Russia crap with Rusev. I need me some Sheamus/Rusev dammit. Speaking of Sheamus, will he go down as one of the most under-appreciated wrestlers of all time? It's criminal how the crowd boos him.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I just wish they'd come out and say Rusev is going to stop fighting for Russia and is going to start fighting for himself and to do what's better for him and win titles.

I just want him to focus on "ripping out his opponent's guts, biting their ears, breaking every bone in their body and kicking them in the groin."


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)




----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm legitimately surprised that WWE still does DVDs. I can't imagine they're doing all that well.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

DVDs forever :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ryback's best singles match is between the Punk TLC match and the Bryan match on RAW in 2013. Tough to pick since both are fantastic in their own ways, but I don't think I would classify either as Ryback's best performance because the reason why those matches ruled had to do with his opponent carrying him.

Sheamus getting booed is not criminal. He's just not likable. Among the best brawlers we've seen in years and excellent worker, but not likable. He was handed everything, and hasn't produced enough to get more opportunities. He needs a heel turn now.

Rusev can fight for Russia all he wants. As long as he putrias and machkas on his opponents, I'm happy.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

WWE still puts out DVDs? Lol. It's funny how things change though. Three years I remember desperately wanting to get MITB. Now, I haz Netwerk.


----------



## dxbender (Jul 22, 2007)

*Re: DVDs u would Like WWE to produce?*



CM Punk Is A God said:


> Or you don't have to pay shit and watch everything on the internet for free.. I bet there's not 1 program on the Network that i can't find online.


Ya, you can find episodes of RAW and stuff online, but it's not as easy to find as good quality of the episodes 10-15 years ago as you'd see on the network or on a dvd.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Ryback's best performance has to be against Sheamus on SD of this year.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

What does everyone rate the IC title triple threat from raw? (Ziggler/Cesaro/Miz) I loved it. 

***3/4


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> What does everyone rate the IC title triple threat from raw? (Ziggler/Cesaro/Miz) I loved it.
> 
> ***3/4


I don't know what I would rate it in a star rating scale. But what I can say is that I enjoyed that match more than some matches that I have at ****1/2.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

xdoomsayerx said:


> What does everyone rate the IC title triple threat from raw? (Ziggler/Cesaro/Miz) I loved it.
> 
> ***3/4


10 mins of ***1/2 goodness.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Heard Cesaro/Swagger from ME is supposedly good. Can anyone confirm?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I can't imagine that not being good.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cesaro/Swagger WAS good, indeed. Not on the level of their great first singles match this year (Smackdown after the post-Mania Raw), but it was a quality match regardless.

And can we assume that, with the aggressivity shown in the last two shows... Mark Henry is slowly turning heel? Because his beatdowns of Bo Dallas have been more entertaining than the Rusev matches, believe it or not.

Speaking of Rusev, just give us Sheamus/Rusev already, Goddammit.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Nice to see Heyman acknowledge the Rollins stuff on Raw. Nothing will come of it of course, and it's not like we are going to get a Brock/Rollins match anyways, esp with Rollins having the briefcase, and Brock being champ.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I don't know what I would rate it in a star rating scale. But what I can say is that I enjoyed that match more than some matches that I have at ****1/2.


Then rate it ****1/2 or 3/4 ffs.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

I rate it ****5/7 brother.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nah, ****67/99.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

CalPal, what's lined up once the Classic Roundups are done?


Well, aside from finishing off Vengeance.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

****0.75 :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rah said:


> CalPal, what's lined up once the Classic Roundups are done?
> 
> 
> Well, aside from finishing off Vengeance.


Finishing off Vengeance :lmao. Good one!

Well I'll be reviewing The Wrestler soon (the 1974 Verne Gagne one), so that's coming up after WWR Classic. Aside from that, I'm working on another big video project for the site, no idea when it'll be finished though. Gonna be a HUGE script and will likely take me a while to record and a long time to edit together too .

Got a few other ideas floating around in my head but not sure what I'll be doing on a regular basis next. Not sure I'll bring back the normal Weekly Wrestling Roundup since 100 is such a nice number to end on and I can't sit through the weekly shows any more and TNA might not even be around much longer :lmao.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Is Tajiri in TNA now?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brock said:


> Is Tajiri in TNA now?


They have a working relationship atm with Zero-1 or whatever it is, as BFG is gonna be a co-promotion PPV. Doubt Tajiri or the others will be on TNA after that, especially with the shape TNA is currently in .


----------



## DMC6162 (Aug 27, 2011)

Didn't watch WWE TV for a good portion of the year. What's everyone's top TV matches this year?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

*Copied from my MotY list:*
6) The Wyatts Vs The Shield (WWE Raw 03/03)
9) Cesaro Vs John Cena (WWE Raw 17/02)
13) The Wyatts Vs The Shield (WWE Main Event 08/04)
18) The Real Americans Vs Rhodes Dynasty (Main Event 18/03)
22) Sheamus Vs Dean Ambrose (Smackdown 09/05)


*Still worth a look:*
Sheamus & Christian Vs Real Americans (Raw 10/02)
Sheamus vs Wade Barrett (Raw 21/04)
Cesaro vs Dean Ambrose (Raw 21/04)
Sheamus Vs Titus O'Neil (Main Event 22/04)
Cesaro vs Dean Ambrose (Smackdown 25/07)


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

John Cena V Cesaro Raw 17/2 ****1/2
Dean Ambrose V Seth Rollins Raw 18/8 ****1/4
The Shield V The Wyatt's Raw 3/3 **** 
The Shield V The Wyatt's Main event 8/4 ****
Randy Orton V Daniel Bryan Raw 2/3 ***3/4


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

From my ***1/2+ list:

John Cena vs. Cesaro, Raw 2/17 (****1/4)
Seth Rollins vs. Dean Ambrose, Raw 8/18 (****1/4)
The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family, Main Event 4/8 (****1/4)
The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family, Raw 3/3 (****)
Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan, Raw 2/3 (****)
The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family, Raw 5/5 (***3/4)
Bad News Barrett vs. Dolph Ziggler, Raw 6/23 (***3/4)
Sheamus vs. Bad News Barrett, Raw 6/9 (***1/2)
The Shield vs. The Real Americans, Raw 3/24 (***1/2)
Sheamus & Christian vs. The Real Americans, Raw 2/10 (***1/2)


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Sigh, there was so much money that could have been made between The Shield and The Wyatts. We could have gotten three great PPV matches but instead we got on great PPV match and two great TV matches. I get that this could be nitpicking considering all their matches were great, but this could have been a career defining feud for all 6 men. Not to mention, in an era where tag team/stable feuds are non-existent, it would have been a breath of fresh air.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

THREE great TV matches actually . Just pointing that out since people tend to forget that the 5/5 match exists too (assuming you forgot that)... or was it a typo? :side:

Regardless, we should've gotten more than one Shield/Wyatts match, that's a guarantee. Better, if we were always to get only PPV Shield/Wyatts match, it should've been at WM. If I booked WM 30, things would've been SO, SO much different than they were. Even if, the way it actually went, it was still one of the greatest WM's of all time.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Shield didn't need to be defined by that time (as can be seen in how prominent all three are after the split). Wyatts, on the other hand, maybe could've used a longer feud, but you have to remember they were white hot around that time as well - they just haven't been booked as strongly since.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

To say the Wyatts haven't been booked as strongly since is like saying an old man isn't quite as mobile as he used to be - they aren't anywhere to be found. Like, other than those vignettes on Harper, what is it that they even do? They're completely, utterly directionless. To think that they were supposedly up for big things after the Cena feud... oh wait, CENA FEUD 8*D. Look, I don't even like going there, and this has been said a million times now, but I just can't not say it again - Creative should NEVER, EVER book any upper comers against Cena unless they, you know, DON'T BOOK CENA TO OVERCOME THE ODDS AND ACTUALLY PUT THEM OVER. And before you say it, Punk and Bryan are the sole exceptions :side:.

Anyways, moving on from the billionth time someone mentions why Cena('s character) isn't likeable, could we discuss something that's coming I believe either this or next week:


Spoiler: NXT



ZAYN/BREEZE REMATCH :mark::mark::mark:
It's even for a Nº1 Contender's spot again and everything!


 Goddammit, can't wait to see that.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> To say the Wyatts haven't been booked as strongly since is like saying an old man isn't quite as mobile as he used to be - they aren't anywhere to be found. Like, other than those vignettes on Harper, what is it that they even do? They're completely, utterly directionless. To think that they were supposedly up for big things after the Cena feud... oh wait, CENA FEUD 8*D. Look, I don't even like going there, and this has been said a million times now, but I just can't not say it again - Creative should NEVER, EVER book any upper comers against Cena unless they, you know, DON'T BOOK CENA TO OVERCOME THE ODDS AND ACTUALLY PUT THEM OVER. And before you say it, Punk and Bryan are the sole exceptions :side:.
> 
> Anyways, moving on from the billionth time someone mentions why Cena('s character) isn't likeable, could we discuss something that's coming I believe either this or next week:
> 
> ...



Punk and Bryan aren't exceptions, Cena put Bryan over clean as a whistle 1-2-3 and Cena out Punk over almost completely clean, and this was in their first matches with Cena. That's why the Wyatt/Cena feud isn't comparable, Cena beat Wyatt clean 1-2-3 in their very first match at WM. Once that happened, it showed WWE wasn't really behind Bray like they were Punk and Bryan, and it went down hill from there. It had a chance to recover at ER, but that was actually the figurative bullet in Brays head, he ended up looking like a complete clown and that finish might actually top BG 2013 as the single worst finish in years and years.

The thing is, Bray MIGHT have actually recovered if Punk or Bryan were still around. After losing the Cena feud it was imperative that Bray get put with someone who would actually put him over, nobody is better at putting guys over than Bryan, but that just didn't happen. Jericho tried but it just wasn't there, maybe 2003 or even 2008 Jericho could have accomplished it, but 2014 Jericho just didn't have it. If Bray had had a couple ****+ matches and maybe 1-2 epic promo wars with Punk immediately following the Cena feud, it could have saved him. The roster is just too thin, young guys need to work with the experienced, accepted top guys to help them get and stay over. There just isn't any Triple H's, Shawn Michaels, Undertakers, Steve Austin's, Foleys, or Flairs hanging around anymore. WWE is just caught in an awkward time right now because of their piss poor planning for the future the past 5 years. An intelligent Booker would have given Cena a 3-5 year run on top then used him to make the next crop of stars-that happened with Punk and Bryan but both of them are gone. Randy was never big enough to make anyone and Batista might have been but he left right about when it would have been time for him to make a few new guys.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Punk and Bryan aren't exceptions, Cena put Bryan over clean as a whistle 1-2-3 and Cena out Punk over almost completely clean, and this was in their first matches with Cena. That's why the Wyatt/Cena feud isn't comparable, Cena beat Wyatt clean 1-2-3 in their very first match at WM. Once that happened, it showed WWE wasn't really behind Bray like they were Punk and Bryan, and it went down hill from there. It had a chance to recover at ER, but that was actually the figurative bullet in Brays head, he ended up looking like a complete clown and that finish might actually top BG 2013 as the single worst finish in years and years.
> 
> The thing is, Bray MIGHT have actually recovered if Punk or Bryan were still around. After losing the Cena feud it was imperative that Bray get put with someone who would actually put him over, nobody is better at putting guys over than Bryan, but that just didn't happen. Jericho tried but it just wasn't there, maybe 2003 or even 2008 Jericho could have accomplished it, but 2014 Jericho just didn't have it. If Bray had had a couple ****+ matches and maybe 1-2 epic promo wars with Punk immediately following the Cena feud, it could have saved him. The roster is just too thin, young guys need to work with the experienced, accepted top guys to help them get and stay over. There just isn't any Triple H's, Shawn Michaels, Undertakers, Steve Austin's, Foleys, or Flairs hanging around anymore. WWE is just caught in an awkward time right now because of their piss poor planning for the future the past 5 years. An intelligent Booker would have given Cena a 3-5 year run on top then used him to make the next crop of stars-that happened with Punk and Bryan but both of them are gone. Randy was never big enough to make anyone and Batista might have been but he left right about when it would have been time for him to make a few new guys.


Brilliantly said, brother. This really sums it up.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah it sucks that the only active person credible enough to put someone over is Cena. It's an awkward time, yes, but most transitional periods are.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

DMC6162 said:


> Didn't watch WWE TV for a good portion of the year. What's everyone's top TV matches this year?


All ***1/2+ TV matches (IMO):

Raw 1/27 -- THE SHIELD vs. SHEAMUS & JOHN CENA & DANIEL BRYAN.
SD 1/31 -- THE SHIELD vs. SHEAMUS & DANIEL BRYAN & REY MYSTERIO.

Raw 2/03 -- RANDY ORTON vs. DANIEL BRYAN.
SD 2/07 -- CESARO vs. DANIEL BRYAN.
Raw 2/10 -- SHEAMUS & CHRISTIAN vs. THE REAL AMERICANS.
SD 2/14 -- THE SHIELD vs. SHEAMUS & DANIEL BRYAN & CHRISTIAN.
SD 2/14 -- RANDY ORTON vs. CESARO.
Raw 2/17 -- JOHN CENA vs. CESARO.
SD 2/21 -- SHEAMUS vs. CHRISTIAN.

Raw 3/03 -- THE SHIELD vs. THE WYATT FAMILY.
Raw 3/10 -- SHEAMUS vs. CHRISTIAN.
Raw 3/24 -- DOLPH ZIGGLER vs. CHRISTIAN vs. ALBERTO DEL RIO vs. SHEAMUS.

Main Event 4/08 -- THE SHIELD vs. THE WYATT FAMILY.
Raw 4/21 -- SHEAMUS vs. BAD NEWS BARRETT.

Raw 5/05 -- THE SHIELD vs. THE WYATT FAMILY.
Main Event 5/13 -- SHEAMUS vs. CESARO.
SD 5/23 -- BATISTA vs. DOLPH ZIGGLER.

SD 6/06 -- SETH ROLLINS vs. DOLPH ZIGGLER.
Raw 6/09 -- SHEAMUS vs. BAD NEWS BARRETT.
SD 6/13 -- DEAN AMBROSE vs. BRAY WYATT.
Raw 6/16 -- SETH ROLLINS vs. DOLPH ZIGGLER.
Raw 6/16 -- DEAN AMBROSE vs. BAD NEWS BARRETT.
Raw 6/23 -- BAD NEWS BARRETT vs. DOLPH ZIGGLER.

Raw 7/07 -- THE USOS vs. THE WYATTS (LUKE HARPER & ERICK ROWAN).
Main Event 7/08 -- SHEAMUS vs. ALBERTO DEL RIO.
SD 7/25 -- DEAN AMBROSE vs. CESARO.
Raw 7/28 -- JOHN CENA vs. CESARO.

Main Event 8/05 -- JACK SWAGGER vs. ALBERTO DEL RIO.
Raw 8/18 -- DEAN AMBROSE vs. SETH ROLLINS.

Raw 9/22 -- THE MIZ vs. DOLPH ZIGGLER.
Raw 9/29 -- DOLPH ZIGGLER vs. CESARO vs. THE MIZ.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Punk and Bryan aren't exceptions, Cena put Bryan over clean as a whistle 1-2-3 and Cena out Punk over almost completely clean, and this was in their first matches with Cena. That's why the Wyatt/Cena feud isn't comparable, Cena beat Wyatt clean 1-2-3 in their very first match at WM. Once that happened, it showed WWE wasn't really behind Bray like they were Punk and Bryan, and it went down hill from there. It had a chance to recover at ER, but that was actually the figurative bullet in Brays head, he ended up looking like a complete clown and that finish might actually top BG 2013 as the single worst finish in years and years.
> 
> The thing is, Bray MIGHT have actually recovered if Punk or Bryan were still around. After losing the Cena feud it was imperative that Bray get put with someone who would actually put him over, nobody is better at putting guys over than Bryan, but that just didn't happen. Jericho tried but it just wasn't there, maybe 2003 or even 2008 Jericho could have accomplished it, but 2014 Jericho just didn't have it. If Bray had had a couple ****+ matches and maybe 1-2 epic promo wars with Punk immediately following the Cena feud, it could have saved him. The roster is just too thin, young guys need to work with the experienced, accepted top guys to help them get and stay over. *There just isn't any Triple H's, Shawn Michaels, Undertakers, Steve Austin's, Foleys, or Flairs hanging around anymore.* WWE is just caught in an awkward time right now because of their piss poor planning for the future the past 5 years. An intelligent Booker would have given Cena a 3-5 year run on top then used him to make the next crop of stars-that happened with Punk and Bryan but both of them are gone. Randy was never big enough to make anyone and Batista might have been but he left right about when it would have been time for him to make a few new guys.


And therein lies the one missing piece of today's roster. Because of the mass exodus of established stars over the past few years, all this unbelievable talent can't move up to that next level. Just imagine if Cesaro got to win a feud against Shawn Michaels or Roman Reigns went over Edge. Punk could have been that guy at this stage in his career, but he's probably at an ice cream shop a couple miles away from my house. Mark Henry and Big Show can definitely play that role too, but they have fits where they sometimes just dominate over everyone too much or they end up losing too much for it to mean anything. Randy Orton can and has been able to do this, which might be the one thing we might disagree on. Remember in 2011 when Orton put over Mark Henry like crazy? That was huge. Or how about last year when he did just as much to put over Bryan as anyone else? The problem is that Orton hasn't been in any meaningful feuds. And it's easy to just say that the solution is to put him in those feuds, but the Randy Orton character has done all it can do and no matter what you do with him, he's gonna be stale. Triple H and Brock are still available too, but you have to be careful with both of them. But this issue really is why all this young talent isn't perceived as stars. And the worst part of it all is that John Cena can lose as much as he wants now and he won't lose his aura, but I think his quota of clean losses has been fulfilled for another year or so.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

When did Cena actually become that guy that getting a win over if you weren't a HHH was crazy?


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Top 10 matches for the year (so far)

1. Wyatts vs Shield EC *****
2. Rollins vs Ambrose RAW ****1/2
3. Zayn vs Cesaro NXT ****1/2
4. Cena vs Cesaro RAW ****1/4
5. Bryan vs HHH WM ****1/4
6. Bray vs Bryan RR ****1/4
7. Orton/Batista/Bryan WM ****
8. Ambrose vs Rollins SS ****
9. Orton vs Bryan RAW ****
10. Kane vs Bryan ER ****


Please god give Ambrose/Rollins 20 minutes in the cell.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

My top 10 thus far:

1 -- THE WYATT FAMILY vs. THE SHIELD -- Elimination Chamber -- ****3/4
2 -- CESARO vs. SAMI ZAYN -- NXT Arrival -- ****3/4
3 -- ADRIAN NEVILLE vs. SAMI ZAYN vs. TYLER BREEZE vs. TYSON KIDD -- NXT Takeover 2 -- ****1/2
4 -- BRAY WYATT vs. DANIEL BRYAN -- Royal Rumble -- ****1/2
5 -- DANIEL BRYAN vs. TRIPLE H -- Wrestlemania -- ****1/2
6 -- DEAN AMBROSE vs. SETH ROLLINS -- Raw 08/18/14 -- ****1/4
7 -- CESARO vs. JOHN CENA -- Raw 02/17/14 -- ****1/4
8 -- THE WYATT FAMILY vs. THE SHIELD -- Main Event 04/08/14 - ****
9 -- DEAN AMBROSE vs. SETH ROLLINS -- Summerslam -- ****
10 -- RANDY ORTON vs. DANIEL BRYAN -- Raw 02/03/14 -- ****

I've legit kept track of all ***+ matches this year so I can make a big list by the end of the year for another board. Might share a top 50 or 75 here as well. All TV, PPV matches that are ***+ or more are included.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Don't think my top 10 has changed since last time:

(****3/4)
1) Wyatts/Shield EC
(****)
2) Lesnar/Cena SS
3) Wyatts/Shield Main Event 4/8
4) Bryan/HHH WM30
5) Cesaro/Cena Raw 2/17
6) Ambrose/Rollins Raw 8/18
7) Barrett/Sheamus Raw 4/21
(***3/4)
8) Wyatt/Cena WM30
9) Bryan/Cena/Orton/Cesaro/Christian/Sheamus EC
10) Barrett/Ziggler Raw 6/23

Yeah, nothing's really changed in the last month. A few great matches though that deserve mention in IC Title triple threat from Raw between Ziggler/Cesaro/Miz, Ziggler/Miz from the Raw after NOC on Raw and Cesaro/Sheamus from NOC. Swagger and Rusev also have had quite a few good ones together.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Does anyone remember if the Royal Rumble 2002 match is any good? I recall hating it as a kid because of how predictable it was, and because Undertaker got eliminated by that piece of Kofi. What was that word we used to describe Kofi? Austin/Angle in early 2002 was pretty nice, but Austin did the worst triple germans ever. We take Benoit's german suplexes for granted.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rusev's matches this year leave me filled w/so much joy. Crammed past two weeks of Smackdown last night & I'm prompted to bring up my enjoyment of him yet again. Sprint vs Reigns was rocking. Goons smacking each other; YES. And then Rusev proved the chemistry vs Show is there & they had a neat match too. We all know the running gag that is "Rusev will just lose to Cena and be nothing" but lets all not be so jaded until the future arrives. Lets enjoy a worker actually being built up consistently in a year where inconsistency reigns supreme. _(or not, I just wanted to make a point about how WWE has been so up & down, it's madness)_ Dude is a boss. Feud/angle wise, he's been having the best year for my money. Not to discount pure match quality, but of course, that area isn't so easy to sweep w/the other strong talents currently employed by WWE.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Rusev is my favourite thing in WWE today. Honestly. Rusev & Ambrose.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Looked up some ECW 2008 cards and there is a Henry/Finlay I haven't seen. Plus many tags involving Henry v. Hardy/Finlay, including a Hardy and Finlay against Henry and Mike Knox. 2003 ECW on XWT still better be all right.



Who does the WWE entrance themes today? Brie Bella, Rollins and Cesaro have three of the worst songs I've ever heard in WWE. Reminds me of TNA music.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

CFO$. Luckily they also have a silver lining in Paige's theme.

And yeah, Rusev rules. I thought he was gonna be generic monster heel #1657689 when I first saw him on NXT. Oh, how wrong and foolish I was. That series with Swagger, especially the SummerSlam near classic :mark:


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Where is Callihan?

I've been going through older EVOLVE shows (what can I say, I'm a masochist) and his debut match is sublime. Five years treading the indies as a world beater, this guy better come out looking golden with all the WWE work they must be doing.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

ATF said:


> CFO$. Luckily they also have a silver lining in Paige's theme.
> 
> And yeah, Rusev rules. I thought he was gonna be generic monster heel #1657689 when I first saw him on NXT. Oh, how wrong and foolish I was. That series with Swagger, especially the SummerSlam near classic :mark:


I like Sami Zayn and Enzo's themes too. But I'm pretty skeptical on them as a whole.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't care for Paige's theme a whole lot but it fits her, at least. The part between the horrible intro screech and the singing is kind of sexy in a bizarre way.



Rah said:


> Where is Callihan?
> 
> I've been going through older EVOLVE shows (what can I say, I'm a masochist) and his debut match is sublime. Five years treading the indies as a world beater, this guy better come out looking golden with all the WWE work they must be doing.


Did you ever watch Callihan v. Mastiff? Thought Callihan was the best wrestler in the world back then. I hope his match with Goldust surfaced online.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, if you have any problems getting ECW 2008, I have them all on my PC and can upload any match you want .

Been itching to watch Flair/Windham for the last week or so, not sure why, but last night I finally got around to putting the first disc of that awesome Ultimate Ric Flair Collection in my PS3. For some reason I have always thought the match was an hour long (or close to it), but it's only like 30 minutes with 2 commercial breaks. However it FELT like an hour, but in a GOOD way, if that makes any sense. Windham early on is just relentless with applying a headlock to Flair to wear him down, and Flair selling the effects is part of the reason the match feels longer than it is, because he acts like he's fucking knackered 15 minutes in. Then Windham takes a nasty spill over the ropes and cracks the back of his head on the metal guard rail and that's him all out of it and making the match feel longer too. That was just the half way point. I was getting a little worried at that point thinking "this might not be as good as I remembered...", but then holy fuck I was wrong and by the end I had a huge grin on my face because it was still a damn epic match :mark:. Still sticking with my holy grail ***** rating for it. Now I need to dig out the disc with their Battle of the Belts II match on it from 1986 because I loved that one even more.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Hollywood Blondes vs Marcus Bagwell & 2 Cold Scorpio (WCW Worldwide 05.08.1993)*

x272o5s

The best Blondes match. ONE OF THE BEST WCW TAGS FULL STOP. Forget all the WWE crap and watch it now or forever be damned to damnation.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Yeah1993 said:


> Did you ever watch Callihan v. Mastiff? Thought Callihan was the best wrestler in the world back then. I hope his match with Goldust surfaced online.


Yeah, it's the best Callihan formula match, for my money. That's 2012, ain't it? Callihan then was










I sent a message to Eric Tapout on Youtube. He has/uploads all the PWS shows. Fittingly, he doesn't have that show uploaded except for that Matt Hardy TLC main event. If he doesn't get back to me, or doesn't have it, we may just have to chip in and buy Fightmare Before Christmas via RFVideo. $9.99 for a 14 day window to watch - knowing my internet speed, it may just be enough time to buffer it all.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Brock said:


> *Hollywood Blondes vs Marcus Bagwell & 2 Cold Scorpio (WCW Worldwide 05.08.1993)*
> 
> x272o5s
> 
> The best Blondes match. ONE OF THE BEST WCW TAGS FULL STOP. Forget all the WWE crap and watch it now or forever be damned to damnation.


Please tell us you have the entire Blondes vs. Douglas/Steamboat program.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rah said:


> Yeah, it's the best Callihan formula match, for my money. That's 2012, ain't it? Callihan then was
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2F-_fw0YgN8



Super Sonic said:


> Please tell us you have the entire Blondes vs. Douglas/Steamboat program.


Steve Austin & Brian Pillman vs. Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas (WCW Main Event: 10/25/92)
Steve Austin & Brian Pillman vs. Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas (Clash 22)
Steve Austin & Brian Pillman vs. Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas (WCW Worldwide: 1/31/93)
Steve Austin & Brian Pillman & Heavenly Bodies vs. Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas & Rock 'n Roll Express (WCW Worldwide: 2/27/93) 
Steve Austin & Brian Pillman vs. Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas (WCW Power Hour: 3/6/93) 
Austin & Pillman vs. Steamboat & Douglas (WCW Worldwide: 3/27/93) 
Austin & Pillman & Windham vs. Steamboat & Douglas & Rhodes (WCW Main Event: 3/ 28/93)
Hollywood Blondes & Paul Orndorff vs. Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas & Cactus Jack (WCW House Show: 4/8/93)

 Some will most likely be online.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rah said:


> Yeah, it's the best Callihan formula match, for my money. That's 2012, ain't it? Callihan then was
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Checked that channel and found a few stuff I need to remember to eventually watch. Callihan v. Trent Acid v. Motherfuckin MONSTA MACK. If only Acid wasn't in that. Chris Hero v. Shane Helms sounds cool. Eddie Kingston v. Kamala?? Duggan v. Doink shoot fight???? What? Jushin Liger v. John Morrison? The fuck? Does Cody know there's a tag with Callihan and the Great Muta in the same match?



Brock said:


> This it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2F-_fw0YgN8


Yep. I think I'd agree with Rah that it was the best Callihan formula match (of 2012 anyway, barely watched any indy stuff since and still never saw most of his stuff from 2008-2011), which is saying a lot considering Sami's volume of awesome shit in 2012. He even came down to Western Australia and carried some random scrub.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> Yeah, if you have any problems getting ECW 2008, I have them all on my PC and can upload any match you want .
> 
> Been itching to watch Flair/Windham for the last week or so, not sure why, but last night I finally got around to putting the first disc of that awesome Ultimate Ric Flair Collection in my PS3. For some reason I have always thought the match was an hour long (or close to it), but it's only like 30 minutes with 2 commercial breaks. However it FELT like an hour, but in a GOOD way, if that makes any sense. Windham early on is just relentless with applying a headlock to Flair to wear him down, and Flair selling the effects is part of the reason the match feels longer than it is, because he acts like he's fucking knackered 15 minutes in. Then Windham takes a nasty spill over the ropes and cracks the back of his head on the metal guard rail and that's him all out of it and making the match feel longer too. That was just the half way point. I was getting a little worried at that point thinking "this might not be as good as I remembered...", but then holy fuck I was wrong and by the end I had a huge grin on my face because it was still a damn epic match :mark:. Still sticking with my holy grail ***** rating for it. Now I need to dig out the disc with their Battle of the Belts II match on it from 1986 because I loved that one even more.



Agreed. I go back and forth on trying to decide if BotB or that Flair/Windham from the Ultimate Collection is better. Both are absolutely perfect, BotB is about 20 minutes longer but it's a textbook case of a 50 minute match seeming like a 25-30 min match, as Windham and Flair literally go balls to the wall for the entire time. They had such awesome chemistry, I might actually enjoy Flair/Windham matches slightly more than Flair/Steamboat.

Funnyfaces- I guess I forgot to include Hunter, as he absolutely put Bryan over in their match like a million bucks. In fact that match is a text book case of how to "make" a baby face. Hunter would work Bryan over but always still let Bryan fire up plenty of comebacks, then he let him kick out of pedigree followed by Hunter getting beat clean after Bryan's first running knee. The problem is Hunter is an executive and only wrestles once a year. Orton did put Bryan over in their matches it's just not Ortons fault he was never really booked to be dominant so the matches never meant as much as Bryan's wins over Cena and Hunter. Orton did help put Henry over in 2011, that's absolutely true I didn't think of that but you're right.

In the mean time, guys like Bray, Ambrose, Rusev, Rollins, Harper, and Reigns-the future stars of the company, they are going to have a harder time getting to be credible main eventers because of the lack of seasoned vets around. However, they all seem like REALLY hard workers so once they get to that top spot without help they will be better off for it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I still never seen the BOTB match.  I adore the Crockett Cup match, so ill have to dig the other ones out when i have time.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Yeah1993 said:


> Duggan v. Doink shoot fight???? What?



Nothing of note, if I remember right. Just Borne being a dick and making Duggan look like an idiot by half-selling his moves and throwing out stupid comments after taking moves. There's a bit of a scuffle when Borne goes to give Duggan a lowblow (for the hell of it), but Duggan keeps himself together and walks out when Borne challenges him to a fight at the back of the gym.





The Rabid Wolverine said:


> In the mean time, guys like Bray, Ambrose, Rusev, Rollins, Harper, and Reigns-the future stars of the company, they are going to have a harder time getting to be credible main eventers because of the lack of seasoned vets around. However, they all seem like REALLY hard workers so once they get to that top spot without help they will be better off for it.



Ambrose is going over Rollins and Cena at Hell in a Cell. It'll be a bit of a crib of Bryan's Wrestlemania story, but his credibility is coming, at least.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just watched Flair/Windham BOTB II. Glorious. Pure fucking glory in a wrestling ring. That's what it is. Still think it's ever so slightly better than their WWW 87 match. One of the few times where a double countout finish actually works. I sooooo wish they had more high profile matches against each other so we could have more matches on tape and shit. Windham always says how he and Flair had so many hour long draws that they stopped counting, and it would have been nice to get a few of them on PPV or something. If only he didn't join the Horsemen :side:. Windham should have had Sting's spot.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What about their 1983 match, what was that like?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rah said:


> Ambrose is going over Rollins and Cena at Hell in a Cell. It'll be a bit of a crib of Bryan's Wrestlemania story, but his credibility is coming, at least.


I wouldn't be so sure of that. This is the WWE we're talking about. They're sure to go all the lenghts to give Cena his millionth revenge because Cena. I'm praying to Vinny to come to his fucking sense and not fuck Ambrose up, but I'll only believe it after I see it. Especially after the Bray debacle earlier this year.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*WCW Fall Brawl 1997:*

*Cruiserweight title: Chris Jericho v. Eddy Guerrero* ****1/4 Just loved that backbreaker.
*Harlem Heat w/Jacquelyn v Steiner Brothers w/Ted DiBiase* *
*TV title – Alex Wright (c) v Ultimo Dragon* ***
*Dean Malenko v Jeff Jarrett w/Debra* **1/4
*Wrath/Mortis w/James Vandenberg v Faces of Fear (Meng/Barbarian)* **1/2
*Scott Norton v The Giant* 1/2*
*Diamond Dallas Page/Lex Luger v Scott Hall/Randy Savage w/Liz* *1/2
*WARGAMES – nWo (Nash/Syxx/Bagwell/Konnan) v Horsemen (Flair/Benoit/Mongo/Curt Hennig)* ***

Eddy/Jericho rules the fucking world. Simples. :mark: Apart from Eddie being refereenced as Harlem Heat lol:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> *WCW Fall Brawl 1997:*
> 
> *Cruiserweight title: Chris Jericho v. Eddy Guerrero* ****1/4 Just loved that backbreaker.
> *Harlem Heat w/Jacquelyn v Steiner Brothers w/Ted DiBiase* *
> ...



I gave Eddy/Jericho ****3/4, I have it behind only the Benoit/Jericho Ladder match as the best bout of Jericho's career. I just absolutely love that match, Jericho was definitely good in it but my god was Eddy ever great. He takes one of the most preposterous German suplex bumps I've ever seen. Also just his mannerisms and the old school shtick with him claiming Jericho was pulling his hair was great. Oh, and the spot where he crotches himself on the ropes and Jericho shakes them makes me laugh out loud just about every time. That was just about the perfect match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I have just loved watching the transformation of Eddy into the heel that he has become. Right from the start of the match, where he goes out of the ring because i think the crowd is chanting 'Eddy sucks', to all his heel stuff in the match, the hair pulling, the kicking he gives Jericho in the corner. That backbreaker spot was insane. Thinking about it, maybe i should up it to ****1/2 TBH. 

Im just glad it got plenty of time to show all this stuff off, as their COTC match from the month before, was good, but wasn't given enough time. 

Im now a month away from another GOAT Eddy match, Halloween Havoc.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

^ Rey/Eddy HH97 held up perfectly when I watched it a few months ago for my ***** match list project. Marvellous.

That Fall Brawl card on paper sounds like it could have been fun, barring The Steiners tag and maybe Malenko vs. JJ because fuck Jarrett and to a lesser extent, fuck Malenko. Wrath/Mortis vs. FoF sounds :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Flux said:


> ^ Rey/Eddy HH97 held up perfectly when I watched it a few months ago for my ***** match list project. Marvellous.
> 
> That Fall Brawl card on paper sounds like it could have been fun, barring The Steiners tag and maybe Malenko vs. JJ because fuck Jarrett and to a lesser extent, fuck Malenko. Wrath/Mortis vs. FoF sounds :mark:







It is a fun match TBH, but im a sucker for most thing Meng/Barbarian, so.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

ATF said:


> I wouldn't be so sure of that. This is the WWE we're talking about. They're sure to go all the lenghts to give Cena his millionth revenge because Cena. I'm praying to Vinny to come to his fucking sense and not fuck Ambrose up, but I'll only believe it after I see it. Especially after the Bray debacle earlier this year.


Provided the direction Meltzer reported is correct (Ambrose/Cena opener and winner faces Rollins) I will bet Ambrose wins.

If he doesn't, I will review 50 Kelly Kelly matches.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I am awaiting for that review of Kelly Kelly matches. I'll review 50 Great Khali matches if it turns out that you are right.

What caused the contempt towards Malenko?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I've just never liked him. It's as simple as that, really.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If Rah reviews 50 Kelly Kelly matches and then FF reviews 50 Khali matches, I'll finish off my Vengeance 07 ramble 8*D.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Malenko does have his submissions and limbwork simply for the sake of it moments iirc, but I don't mind him tbh. Though I can see why someone wouldn't like him.

There are other cases, however, where I just can't for the life of me see why do they get so much bad flack (*cough:hbkcough*).


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Shawn Michaels gets flack because his matches got pretty dull and lazy and sissyish in 2005 and 2006. He also had a weak 1993, but I think he might have been injured or on horse meat.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> He also had a weak 1993, but I think he might have been injured or on horse meat.


Elvis diet i think.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Malenko does have his submissions and limbwork simply for the sake of it moments iirc, but I don't mind him tbh. Though I can see why someone wouldn't like him.
> 
> There are other cases, however, where I just can't for the life of me see why do they get so much bad flack (*cough:hbkcough*).


There isn't anything wrong with Michaels, he's GREAT at what he does, it just so happens that what he does is not a style I'm a huge fan of these days. Michaels is the absolute MASTER of the "WWE-Style main event". The way he works is how WWE wishes everyone would work, I think. I dunno, I don't think anyone can objectively say Michaels is anything other than great, you won't find one single wrestler who says otherwise atleast, but everyone has their own preference and people in here especially have watched so much wrestling that inevitably you get tired of one style and move onto the next, until you get tired of that. I still love matches like Michaels/Diesel No DQ, but usually when I go to pop something in I just don't seem to ever be in the mood to watch a Shawn Michaels match anymore, really couldn't tell you why that is. Actually I can, Finlay and Regal are to blame. My disinterest in Michaels I think can be directly correlated to when I started getting REALLY into watching Finlay and Regal bouts. The grittiness and realism they bring has a tendency to make Michaels working style look a tad silly by comparison.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HBK mainly gets flak for his Hogan style hulk up after he kips up, ignoring all the back work his opponents tend to do.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh yeah, that's absolutely true - Shawn's back selling is kinda weak, especially knowing he had a legit broken back and should w/the aid of the pain felt by such experience knowing how to properly sell his back. And yeah, in comparision w/Finlay and Regal and Benoit's stiffing the fuck outta someone style, it's hard to buy into someone as flashy and, in some cases formulaic, as Shawn.

That being said, whenever I think of Shawn's faulty back work, I also think of the SVS 2007 match against Orton, or the No DQ match w/Diesel, or WM 24 against Flair, or Team Austin vs. Team Bischoff, or WM 26 against Taker, or basically any other match where Shawn drastically added to the story and made me remember why he is one of my all time favorites. It's all down to taste, I know, but it's kinda sad to know that Shawn Michaels of all performers is kind of a controversial commodity on this board. Even still, better if Shawn gets flack than if guys like Austin, Taker, Foley, Flair or Eddie do.

Anyways, I'm out to rewatch one of my favorite big man vs. big man matches ever: Sheamus vs. the Big Show, Hell In A Cell 2012.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> HBK mainly gets flak for his Hogan style hulk up after he kips up, ignoring all the back work his opponents tend to do.



Yea Shawn does have a tendency to make a heel work over completely pointless in 5 seconds, you get a great 5-10 minute work over and in 5 seconds Shawn kips up and starts dancing around and now the first half of the match was a complete and utter waste of time. I don't mind the kip up if the heel hasn't specifically been working over Shawn's back or leg, it's not something I like but it doesn't ruin anything, either.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

If Rah reviews 50 Kelly Kelly matches and FF reviews 50 Khali matches I will review 50 Shawn Michaels matches...


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Like if that's a bad thing (if you choose 50 of his good matches, that is) :side:

Checked out others' lists of the current best matches of the year, and I'm quite surprised to not see any Shield/Evolution ER mentions. Guessing people didn't dig it (or at least as much as I did). Payback is meh, though.

Also, Sheamus/Show still rules, ****1/4.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I just took a Business Law exam, and one of the questions asked whether or not a man named Cal was liable of tort for indirectly killing a penguin :side:

Still love Shield/Evolution. Randy Orton in particular really impressed me. I don't want him to turn face yet. But I want him to leave the authority. He's done all he can with those vagabonds.

Cjack hit the nail on the head. We all generally love Shawn Michaels, but he does have a tendency to overdramatize things, with the biggest example being his kip up which leads to an interpretive dance of drunk people. But there has only been one other guy in this business that I can think of that has more acclaim than Michaels in the ring. He must be doing something right. There are other parts of the IWC that don't look too highly on Shawn. I'll show you one right now:

http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/16387-would-shawn-michaels-make-your-personal-top-100/


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The penguin had it coming. That is all.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

funnyfaces1 said:


> http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/16387-would-shawn-michaels-make-your-personal-top-100/


Unrelated to the Michaels talk, that forum is dirt worst. I hate those motherfuckers, I hate them and wish they just drop over and burst into fucking flames. /Cornette talk.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*NWO Promo (WCW Monday Nitro 09.15.1997)*

x2740fk

From the night after Curt Hennig turned and joined the New World Order. Features a fucking great can thrown by a crowd member, that lands plum on Hennig's head lol. Good promo.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> There are other parts of the IWC that don't look too highly on Shawn. I'll show you one right now:
> 
> http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/16387-would-shawn-michaels-make-your-personal-top-100/


Holy fuck. :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chismo said:


> Unrelated to the Michaels talk, that forum is dirt worst. I hate those motherfuckers, I hate them and wish they just drop over and burst into fucking flames. /Cornette talk.


I dunno. I enjoy reading some informative posts by Loss, Ditch and Goodhelmet, amongst others.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Brock said:


> I dunno. I enjoy reading some informative posts by Loss, Ditch and Goodhelmet, amongst others.


I'm not a member, I just stalk from time to time and yeah, you can really find out some highly informative shit about the history, but most of the members are holier-than-thou, self-righteous, passive-aggressive and nitpicking douchebags, some of them stuck in the 80s permanently.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Cien Caras on that list would be a tough sell. That or I reaaally need to watch him in matches with decent workers.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Maybe we should start our own Matches Better Than Every Shawn Michaels Match Ever series, remember that YouTube guy with the GOAT channel? http://www.youtube.com/user/AbyssThumbtackSpot/videos


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Chismo said:


> I'm not a member, I just stalk from time to time and yeah, you can really find out some highly informative shit about the history, but *most of the members are holier-than-thou, self-righteous, passive-aggressive and nitpicking douchebags*, some of them stuck in the 80s permanently.


Of all the forums to say this about, PWO would be the last one on the internet I'd give that label to. It isn't immune to people like that but it sure as hell isn't ''most'' of the members. No idea where you're getting that from.



Chismo said:


> Maybe we should start our own Matches Better Than Every Shawn Michaels Match Ever series, remember that YouTube guy with the GOAT channel? http://www.youtube.com/user/AbyssThumbtackSpot/videos


That dude was on this site, name was CaliGula. Did he delete the Vader promo his channel? Whyyyy?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Caligula was great. :lmao

PAUL THE GREAT WRIGHT


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I've found myself coming across a lot of Punk promos from his heel run as champion and around that time before he returned as a face, and fuck, I'm really missing Punk.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

ATF said:


> Like if that's a bad thing (if you choose 50 of his good matches, that is) :side:
> 
> Checked out others' lists of the current best matches of the year, and I'm quite surprised to not see any Shield/Evolution ER mentions. Guessing people didn't dig it (or at least as much as I did). Payback is meh, though.
> 
> Also, Sheamus/Show still rules, ****1/4.


Not sure if Shawn has 50 good singles matches. Maybe I'll do this project for the fun of it. The current product is so much garbage I might as well go back and watch random matches.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You do realize that this all hinges on whether or not Dean Ambrose beats both John Cena and Seth Rollins at HIAC.

PWO has a lot of informative material, and their old forums were really nice. But as soon as everyone there bought the Memphis tapes, a bunch of people became annoying snobs that criticized anything that wasn't simple or John Cena. A shame too because their yearbooks are really nice.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> You do realize that this all hinges on whether or not Dean Ambrose beats both John Cena and Seth Rollins at HIAC.
> 
> PWO has a lot of informative material, and their old forums were really nice. But as soon as everyone there bought the Memphis tapes, a bunch of people became annoying snobs that criticized anything that wasn't simple or John Cena. A shame too because their yearbooks are really nice.


Yes I did realize that, then I decided I might do the project for the fun of it regardless. Not really sure how I feel about Michaels as a worker so it would help me form an opinion.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Saint Dick said:


> Not sure if Shawn has 50 good singles matches.


LOL


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

I've decided to rewatch WWE stuff (including NXT) from 2014 because I haven't started rating stuff back then. Finished first RAW/Main Event/NXT/Superstars/Smackdown.

Stuff that I have at *** or higher so far:

Roman Reigns & Seth Rollins vs. Jey Uso & Jimmy Uso (WWE Smackdown, 1/3/14, Tag Team) ***1/4
Cody Rhodes & Goldust vs. Erick Rowan & Luke Harper (WWE Smackdown, 1/3/14, Tag Team, WWE Tag Team Championship) ***1/4
C.M. Punk & Jey Uso & Jimmy Uso vs. Dean Ambrose & Roman Reigns & Seth Rollins (WWE Smackdown, 1/3/14, Six-man Tag) ***1/2

Antonio Cesaro & Jack Swagger vs. Cody Rhodes & Goldust (WWE Monday Night Raw, 1/6/14, Tag Team) ***1/2
C.M. Punk vs. Roman Reigns (WWE Monday Night Raw, 1/6/14, Singles) *** 

Might take me a while.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

You'll have a hell of a time with February.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU3mzhk73W6yNKHLALHyLPg/videos

Youtube channel with over 100 Jake Roberts promos. :mark:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Okay, so the Shawn Michaels project starts right now. I'm attempting to watch 50 of his singles matches chosen either at random or because I feel like watching it. Feel free to suggest matches to watch but I may ignore suggestions. Haven't decided if I want to list the matches I really like or not. I might do that. We'll see. Typed in 'Shawn Michaels vs' on youtube and the first match that came up is against RVD. Yippee.

EDIT:

*Shawn Michaels v. RVD (Raw 11/25/02)*
I don't know if 2002 Michaels is any good and I'm pretty sure I don't like Rob Van Dam in any year so I went into this not expecting much. Turns out I was right to not expect much. It wasn't really a BAD match, there were actually parts of it I liked, but almost every time they did something I liked it was followed by something I didn't like, usually by Van Dam. Case in point, RVD threw two nasty looking elbows at the start which made me care about their chain wrestling stuff but then he followed it up with what could be a contender for worst moonsault of all time. Then again it might not be because I've seen him do a plethora of horrible moonsaults which might be as bad or worse. Michaels went after Van Dam's leg because ya know he's a high flyer and shit and I thought Shawn's leg work was pretty good. To RVD's credit he was doing a solid job selling it until of course he blew off the selling to do a bunch of flips. Idiot. Van Dam hit some moves on Shawn's back because ya know '02 Michaels is supposed to be a borderline cripple and shit. That was okay I guess. I bought RVD's Frog Splash to Shawn's back as a move that could've been a really good nearfall (knew he wasn't winning because it was a title match and Michaels had the belt) but HHH interfered for the DQ. Weird match. At some points I thought it was quite decent, at others it was kind of shitty. NOT ADDING

*Shawn Michaels v. Vladimir Kozlov (Raw 3/2/09)*
The best and worst of Shawn Michaels in one match. Up until the last 30 seconds I thought this was really fucking good. The start was fun with Kozlov looking to enforce his will on Michaels and Shawn having to be resourceful to keep him at bay. Then they worked this totally great spot where Michaels got the Figure Four on Kozlov but he reversed it IMMEDIATELY. Doesn't sound like much but I thought it was a nice way of emphasizing Kozlov's power. Plus who really wants to see Shawn Michaels apply a Figure Four for longer than necessary? The middle was good too. Kozlov isn't the most engaging guy in control but Michaels made him look like a beast. Loved the headbutt counter to Shawn's flying forearm for two reasons. 1. because it looked great and 2. because it put a stop to Shawn's shitty comeback routine. Instead when Shawn did make his comeback he did it with punches and chops and held his lower back in pain after every individual strike. Top notch selling from Michaels. Unfortunately he undid all of his good work by going to the top, hitting his elbow drop and jumping around to make the crowd pop. Even Lawler was like "NO SHAWN DON'T DO IT YOUR BACK!!11!" but Michaels said "fuck that noise Jerry" and no sold the shit out of it. La Musica de Sweet Chin followed and that was that. If Michaels sold even a little bit there at the end I would be praising his performance and pimping this as a sub-10 minute gem. But he didn't. So I'm not. (it's still good though, worth watching) NOT ADDING


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Chismo said:


> Maybe we should start our own Matches Better Than Every Shawn Michaels Match Ever series, remember that YouTube guy with the GOAT channel? http://www.youtube.com/user/AbyssThumbtackSpot/videos


I feel like I've been doing this list for a long time.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Okay, so the Shawn Michaels project starts right now. I'm attempting to watch 50 of his singles matches chosen either at random or because I feel like watching it. Feel free to suggest matches to watch but I may ignore suggestions. Haven't decided if I want to list the matches I really like or not. I might do that. We'll see. Typed in 'Shawn Michaels vs' on youtube and the first match that came up is against RVD. Yippee.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> *Shawn Michaels v. RVD (Raw 11/25/02)*







This might be worth a watch.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Brye said:


> This might be worth a watch.


I'm definitely gonna watch this. Not next because I got my eyes set on a Kozlov match but at some point for sure.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Does Cody know there's a tag with Callihan and the Great Muta in the same match?


FUCK.

part of me wants to say I did know, & forgot.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Are we allowed to recommend AWA Shawn Michaels?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Are we allowed to recommend AWA Shawn Michaels?


If it's easy for me to find and watch then sure. 

Edited in my write up for the Kozlov match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

(part 2-3 in suggestions


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Did you just slip a Harry Fraud reference?

I think I liked the recent Kofi Kingston vs. Sin Cara match.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Did you just slip a Harry Fraud reference?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Saint Dick said:


> Not sure if Shawn has 50 good singles matches.


There would *have* to be, right? Fuck, I never even thought about it. I'M MAKING A LIST RIGHT NOW. Be back in an hour.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Seems Hayes was disgruntled by being left off my music top 5, and released this classic a couple days ago







Michael P.S. Hayes, errbody.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brye said:


> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU3mzhk73W6yNKHLALHyLPg/videos
> 
> Youtube channel with over 100 Jake Roberts promos. :mark:


:yum: Jeez Louiz. This one (not sure if it's on that channel), has to be his best, or at least one of them: :mark:


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Yeah1993 said:


> There would *have* to be, right? Fuck, I never even thought about it. I'M MAKING A LIST RIGHT NOW. Be back in an hour.


He has about 75 by my count fresh off the top of my head. That doesn't include multi-man matches either.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Super Sonic said:


> He has about 75 by my count fresh off the top of my head. * That doesn't include multi-man matches either.*


Well yeah, otherwise it isn't a ''singles'' match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Carnage/Saint Dick, make yourself a favor and watch (if you haven't already) his 2007 matches w/Orton. All of them, including Judgment Day which, as solely a storyline advancer device, ruled. Survivor Series more than anything - that is one of Shawn's most masterful performances ever.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching the Nitro when Goldberg debuted. Didn't realize he did a back-flip in this one.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

ATF said:


> Carnage/Saint Dick, make yourself a favor and watch (if you haven't already) his 2007 matches w/Orton. All of them, including Judgment Day which, as solely a storyline advancer device, ruled. Survivor Series more than anything - that is one of Shawn's most masterful performances ever.


Orton-Michaels Survivor Series is probably my favourite ever Orton match, absolutely love it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> Watching the Nitro when Goldberg debuted. Didn't realize he did a back-flip in this one.


The match against that hack Hugh Morrus? Yep pretty sure he did it there, say what you want about WCW but they absolutely NAILED the introduction and subsequent rise of Goldberg perfectly. Probably the best thing they ever did, along with the initial debut of the Outsiders, and the "Mystery 3rd man" angle, and the build to Sting/Hogan at Starrcade.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> The match against that hack Hugh Morrus? Yep pretty sure he did it there, say what you want about WCW but they absolutely NAILED the introduction and subsequent rise of Goldberg perfectly. Probably the best thing they ever did, along with the initial debut of the Outsiders, and the "Mystery 3rd man" angle, and the build to Sting/Hogan at Starrcade.


He also did an excellent submission takedown too, which not alot of people give him credit for TBH. Im sure in his second Nitro match, he beats Barbarian too, which looking back, was a big early step kayfabe wise, considering what a rep the Faces Of Fear had.

---------------------------------

*American Dragon vs Spanky (TWA 2000)*

x275u9y

Bryan Danielson here in 2000, against Brian Kendrick, in HBK's Texas Wrestling Alliance. Includes pre match promo with Dragon/Michaels, with HBK on commentary too.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> He also did an excellent submission takedown too, which not alot of people give him credit for TBH. Im sure in his second Nitro match, he beats Barbarian too, which looking back, was a big early step kayfabe wise, considering what a rep the Faces Of Fear had.
> 
> ---------------------------------
> 
> ...



YES! I was always a big big fan of the submission take downs Goldberg dig, the leg whip ankle lock/leg bar thingy and also the arm drag/cross arm breaker thingy. Goldberg wasn't a great worker by any means, in fact he sucked, to be frank, but the few things he did well, if spaced out properly and built to for maximum effect, could lead to some pretty entertaining matches. As Jim Ross said, who cares if your only a 1 hit wonder? You still had a hit! That's all that matters.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah now I really wanna go watch Goldberg Vs DDP. BRB.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I initiated Goldberg appreciation.


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

Nxt this week : rematches but wrestling so i'm happy.

Charlotte vs Bayley : good rematch, nice story being told but a lot less emotion. Still good. Sasha is next contender it seems.

Kidd vs Neville : Their third or fourth match. Not a bad match and the stipulation (kidd's last chance) added to the near falls. Good moves, and some drama with Titus and Zayn at the end make it a nice main event.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

To be quite honest, I've always enjoyed HBK's work (but then, I missed a lot of '06-12, so no DX reunion, yay!). I almost always don't have a problem with his back selling. During the comeback, there is *adrenaline* that the babyface is feeding off of. Most of the time, it goes like this: Shawn sells throughout, hits the Flying Taco, nips up, and has a mix of pain, exhaustion, and determination on his face and may dance a bit (sexy boy gonna prance), which ultimately sets up a missed attempt at a super kick, and we're back with even more exhaustion and back selling. I don't see the problem :draper2 Adrenaline is a powerful, if fleeting, thing. I can buy the surge because of where it leads. It may seem formulaic over time, but isn't a gripe of mine for most matches. 

"Stop nipping up, Shawn gah!" :lmao


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Shawn Michaels v. Christian (Raw 10/4/04)*
No prizes for guessing who the better guy in this match was. That's right, it was Christian. Duh. He's a better wrestler. Everyone knows that right? Okay. In fairness Michaels was good in this too. He had two awesome sells early on, one where he ran full speed into an elbow and another where Christian punched him in his chest/mid-section and he just crumpled to his knees. There was a nasty looking clash of heads spot that made me go "OHH! nice" and I dug the struggle for the Unprettier. Also dug the setup for Shawn's elbow drop, although I didn't like Shawn's adrenaline fueled seizure after hitting the elbow drop. I didn't hate it as much as the no selling against Kozlov because this time Michaels wasn't selling his back or anything else long term, but fuck man it looks goofy. That's my only real quibble with this though. Christian was really great being the cocky douchebag trying to prove something against the respected vet and all in all it was a strong back and forth match. LISTED



Spoiler: is Shawn Michaels good?!?!



Matches watched (4):

Shawn Michaels v. RVD (Raw 11/25/02)
Shawn Michaels v. Vladimir Kozlov (Raw 3/2/09)
Shawn Michaels v. Jerry Lawler (Raw 8/14/95)
Shawn Michaels v. Christian (Raw 10/4/04)

LISTED:

1. Shawn Michaels v. Christian (Raw 10/4/04)


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I think watching HBK go on TV shows will change your view of his. His detractors often state that he just couldn't keep up week-to-week, and dick 90s Shawn often phoned it in when the match didn't matter. I'd intend to agree, especially because he's not a Regal/Benoit/Henry/Rey/Eddie (you get the idea) type guy that adds subtleties to his work so it all either just blends together or stifles/plods with little purpose or reason to invest yourself. He's that grilled steak, but without any seasoning to put it over the top from being just a grilled steak. If there's a storyline to work off, or a reason to care, he will deliver usually; otherwise not for me.

Big-time PPV 1996 Shawn is chalk and cheese to house show 1996 Shawn, for instance.


I'd make a wager that if he was a territory guy, or around with limited television, he'd be a better regarded talent. Say what you will about the current talent pool in mainstream wrestling, but they do have a lot of different expectations that older guys wouldn't have from us, as viewers. Three shows a week, a PPV monthly and, with the rise of technology, more likeliness of house shows making their way online. You cannot wrestle the same across those three environs. PPV matches have to be made big, TV matches have purpose and time limitations and house shows require you to work for both the fan in the first row as well as the guy in the bleachers. Compare McIntyre's house shows to how he does things on Superstars. I don't mind guys working the same formula match for every individual show (and I assume the WWE enforce that) but a guy busting his ass in all three contexts gets props from me more than just a tremendous PPV worker who doesn't do the other two well.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Rah said:


> I think watching HBK go on TV shows will change your view of his. His detractors often state that he just couldn't keep up week-to-week, and dick 90s Shawn often phoned it in when the match didn't matter. I'd intend to agree, especially because he's not a Regal/Benoit/Henry/Rey/Eddie (you get the idea) type guy that adds subtleties to his work so it all either just blends together or stifles/plods with little purpose or reason to invest yourself. He's that grilled steak, but without any seasoning to put it over the top from being just a grilled steak. If there's a storyline to work off, or a reason to care, he will deliver usually; otherwise not for me.
> 
> Big-time PPV 1996 Shawn is chalk and cheese to house show 1996 Shawn, for instance.


Yeah I was just thinking I need to watch some PPV matches, although the TV matches I've watched so far were all important except for the Lawler match. The RVD match was for the title, the Kozlov match was to see who faced Taker at Mania, and the Christian match was at MSG. He wasn't bad in any of them and none of the matches I've watched have been bad either even though I only listed one.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Either way, 50 matches will be more than enough to judge him. I enjoy reading thoughts behind why people hold a match a certain way, and this project certainly will open my own eyes to him from a new angle. Hey, maybe I'm completely undervaluing him to certain degrees. We'll see!


Same won't be said about the 50 Kelly Kelly matches, provided I lose this bet with FunnyFaces :side:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Shawn Michaels v. Randy Orton (Judgment Day 5/20/07)*
What's the general consensus for Shawn's selling in this? I found it somewhat hammy and over the top. I don't want to compare Michaels selling a concussion to Benoit selling a concussion because fuck that just isn't a fair comparison but I'm confident in saying I prefer Ziggler selling a concussion to Michaels selling a concussion based on this. Maybe I just don't know what selling a concussion is supposed to look like. Anyways, this served its purpose as a feud advanced. Orton patiently waiting for the ref to help Michaels to his feet so he could hit the RKO was killer. NOT ADDING

*Shawn Michaels v. Randy Orton (Cyber Sunday 10/28/07)*
I felt like this was going really well and then it kind of fell apart half way through. Enjoyed Shawn's arm work and Orton's selling of it. One particular moment I recall liking a lot was Michaels having Orton in a submission, can't remember if it was an arm bar or overhand wrist lock, and Orton couldn't move so he tried in vain to stick his leg out and reach the ropes with it. Looked like something a wrestler would do naturally if wrestling was real. Things started to go downhill when Orton took over. Mediocre control segment, lukewarm finishing stretch, DQ finish. At least this was an example of Michaels doing his adrenaline comeback and me not having a problem with it. Could've been a good match but in the end it was just average. NOT ADDING

I'll watch Survivor Series later.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Saint Dick's mini project is really inspiring me to do one exactly the same but for someone else. Is there anyone else as divisive as HBK that would be a worthwhile project? :hmm:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Flux said:


> Saint Dick's mini project is really inspiring me to do one exactly the same but for someone else. Is there anyone else as divisive as HBK that would be a worthwhile project? :hmm:


Mason Ryan

:side:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Do Lex Luger


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

:lol

Thinking Batista, Big Show or Ryback. Probably Big Dave.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Flux said:


> :lol
> 
> Thinking Batista, Big Show or Ryback. Probably Big Dave.


Edge maybe?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Really want to watch some great submission matches. Think ill return to my Volk Han watching the weekend, really been in the mood.

I did watch Benoit/Angle (Backlash 2001) the other day, from WWF.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> *Shawn Michaels v. Randy Orton (Judgment Day 5/20/07)*
> What's the general consensus for Shawn's selling in this? I found it somewhat hammy and over the top. I don't want to compare Michaels selling a concussion to Benoit selling a concussion because fuck that just isn't a fair comparison but I'm confident in saying I prefer Ziggler selling a concussion to Michaels selling a concussion based on this. *Maybe I just don't know what selling a concussion is supposed to look like.* Anyways, this served its purpose as a feud advanced. Orton patiently waiting for the ref to help Michaels to his feet so he could hit the RKO was killer. NOT ADDING


You want an example of how to sell a concussion?

- Orton vs Triple H from Royal Rumble
- Benoit vs Triple H from the Gold Rush Tournament
- RVD vs Orton from Raw 27 May 2007 & One Night Stand

Any of those will do.



> I'll watch Survivor Series later.


While you're viewing Shawn vs Orton matches, add this to the list.

xmbxhy


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> You want an example of how to sell a concussion?
> 
> *- Orton vs Triple H from Royal Rumble
> - Benoit vs Triple H from the Gold Rush Tournament*
> ...


Those came to mind.

*Shawn Michaels v. Randy Orton (Survivor Series 11/17/07)*
I was glad when ATF suggested the Orton series because I knew I thought this one was great but hadn't seen it in years. It held up. The opening portion of the match was fantastic and possibly my favorite part of the whole thing. Loved Michaels wrenching that neck vice on Orton relentlessly, and when Orton finally got out of it Michaels reverted to a front chancery + knees to the head combo which was even fucking better. Great stuff. They also did one of the most natural looking setups for Orton's hangman DDT I've seen. Orton's sleeper is hit or miss for me. Here it worked well as payback for the holds Shawn put on him earlier. A minor problem for me is that Michaels isn't the best at applying submissions (Sharpshooter, Crossface and Ankle Lock all could've looked better) but everything came together nicely so I'm not gonna bitch about that too much. Sweet finish with the SCM stip coming into play. The idea of someone's finisher being banned is so dumb to me but they made good use of it throughout the match so whatever. I don't think this is a classic and it never really threatened to reach classic territory but it is a great, great match. LISTED



Spoiler: is Shawn Michaels good?!?!



Matches watched (7):

Shawn Michaels v. RVD (Raw 11/25/02)
Shawn Michaels v. Vladimir Kozlov (Raw 3/2/09)
Shawn Michaels v. Jerry Lawler (Raw 8/14/95)
Shawn Michaels v. Christian (Raw 10/4/04)
Shawn Michaels v. Randy Orton (Judgment Day 5/20/07)
Shawn Michaels v. Randy Orton (Cyber Sunday 10/28/07)
Shawn Michaels v. Randy Orton (Survivor Series 11/17/07)

LISTED:

1. Shawn Michaels v. Randy Orton (Survivor Series 11/17/07)
2. Shawn Michaels v. Christian (Raw 10/4/04)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I don't think this necessarily counts as "selling a concussion", but the best I've ever seen someone sell a "Knock out blow" is Randy Orton, and he does it unbelievably well in 2 matches that immediately come to mind. The first is the classic he had at Backlash 2004 with Foley, Foley clocks him right in the head with either a trash can lid or cookie sheer (can't remember which) and Orton does this amazing crumple to the ground sell job for it. He buckles his knees and some how just turns his body into complete jello, I have no idea how he did it, and he just lays there with his legs bent at an awkward angle not moving for several seconds, just like when a wide receiver gets crushed/knocked out going over the middle by a safety.

The other was in the classic Orton had with Benoit on Smackdown 1/16/06. It's proceeded by one of the best transition spots, Orton is on the top rope and Benoit climbs up and cuts him off with a series of just vicious, vicious, head butts. Finally he headbutts him once more and Orton goes flying off the top rope and crashes head first on top of the barricade. As he flops back the camera zooms in and some how Orton manages to make his eyes go completely blank. They are open but it's literally the exact same effect you see when someone is really knocked out, the lights are on but no one is home. Not only that, but he does this creepy thing with his mouth were it looks like he's repeating some word but you can't figure out what it is. It looks exactly like a fish looks when you pull it out of the water after it's been exhausted with a long fight and it stares blankly at you with it's lips barely moving. I did a really bad job right there of describing what Orton does, you really just need to see it to appreciate it,


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Orton does a great job at selling effects of shots to the head. He always took great superkicks from Shawn during their feud. That 07 feud where HBK kept kicking him in the face which eventually lead to the superkick being banned for the SVS match was awesome :lmao.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I have 42 Michaels singles on this list so far. I kind of wanted to do this without re-watching anything long and it's getting tough. I'm not including house show matches either. Anyone got any good Michaels TV matches that flew way under the radar? Or even under-seen (??) PPV matches.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

*Unforgiven 2004*. HHH blasts Orton with one of the nastiest chair shots I have ever seen. Orton sells it like a boss.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

#ROOT said:


> Orton does a great job at selling effects of shots to the head. He always took great superkicks from Shawn during their feud. That 07 feud where HBK kept kicking him in the face which eventually lead to the superkick being banned for the SVS match was awesome :lmao.


Yeah. I watched the promo vid for the Suvivor Series match and Orton was taking super kicks like a goddamn hero. He took one amazingly after the match itself too. Maybe I should do a Randy Orton project.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I have 42 Michaels singles on this list so far. I kind of wanted to do this without re-watching anything long and it's getting tough. I'm not including house show matches either. Anyone got any good Michaels TV matches that flew way under the radar? Or even under-seen (??) PPV matches.



I don't know how "Under the radar" this is, but his classic ladder match at Summerslam 1995 with Razor rarely gets brought up. I personally think it trounces the WM 10 match, not sure how you feel about it.


I'm posting this match just cause. It's a great fucking match and it hardly ever gets brought up. You can thank our main man and thread MVP King Zeppers for the upload: 

Vader/Steve Austin vs Flair/Arn Anderson WCW Saturday Night Nov. 1993

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1...-anderson-wcw-saturday-night-13-11-1993_sport

Watching this match got me thinking, in the US, are there any 2 on 2 tag matches that top this for the sheer staggering amount of talent that is in the ring? I know tags like this are somewhat common in Japan and to a lesser extent Mexico, but they just don't happen all that often in the States. I mean you have:

Ric Flair-Greatest pro wrestler of all time in my book
Arn Anderson-Greatest tag team wrestler of all time 
Steve Austin-Biggest star in the history of wrestling, top 10 all time 
Vader-Greatest Super Heavyweight of all time, greatest monster heel of all time, top 20 all time

(US only, of course)

How are you topping that? It's just incredible, and these guys got 30 minutes to tear it up, too. One of my top 15-20 favorite tags, for sure.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I haven't seen SummerSlam 95 in five years but I'm fairly confident I'd still think it's good. Good is the absolute minimum a match can be to make it onto the list so yeah, went ahead and assumed isn't below that level and stuck it on there.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Damn, what is it with my luck? Was only one week away from SummerSlam 1998 and all the Attitude Era videos on watchwrestling are down because putlocker has gone retarded. 



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> The other was in the classic Orton had with Benoit on Smackdown 1/16/06. It's proceeded by one of the best transition spots, Orton is on the top rope and Benoit climbs up and cuts him off with a series of just vicious, vicious, head butts. Finally he headbutts him once more and Orton goes flying off the top rope and crashes head first on top of the barricade. As he flops back the camera zooms in and some how Orton manages to make his eyes go completely blank. They are open but it's literally the exact same effect you see when someone is really knocked out, the lights are on but no one is home. Not only that, but he does this creepy thing with his mouth were it looks like he's repeating some word but you can't figure out what it is. It looks exactly like a fish looks when you pull it out of the water after it's been exhausted with a long fight and it stares blankly at you with it's lips barely moving. I did a really bad job right there of describing what Orton does, you really just need to see it to appreciate it,


Ha, I love that spot. The way Randy sells the knock out blow and that blank stare with his mouth making the same movement making it look like he's repeating some word to himself. :lmao

Reading this makes me wanna go and watch that match again. It's just so awesome. Shame it goes unnoticed outside of this thread.



Saint Dick said:


> Yeah. I watched the promo vid for the Suvivor Series match and Orton was taking super kicks like a goddamn hero. He took one amazingly after the match itself too. Maybe I should do a Randy Orton project.


You wont regret it. I had plenty of fun doing my top 100. Although it becomes less fun once you approach 2009-2010 because he slowed down his style and some matches are just BORING. But you don't have to go through them all like I did, so there's that.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> You wont regret it. I had plenty of fun doing my top 100. Although it becomes less fun once you approach 2009-2010 because he slowed down his style and some matches are just BORING. But you don't have to go through them all like I did, so there's that.


If I do end up doing an Orton project it will be like this Michaels one. Choosing matches at random to watch, not going through his career chronologically. 

Might do the '08 Jericho series next for the Michaels list.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I haven't seen SummerSlam 95 in five years but I'm fairly confident I'd still think it's good. Good is the absolute minimum a match can be to make it onto the list so yeah, went ahead and assumed isn't below that level and stuck it on there.


Michaels had a really good match on Raw in 1997 with Foley, believe it was a No DQ bout if I'm not mistaken as Foley came to the ring with a trash can. I think at worst it's still a good match, if give it in the area of ***3/4


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I recommend watching the Street Fight with Edge on RAW in 2005. Great match. Blood gets on Edge's face and it looks like war paint. Edge was a scary monster in that match and Michaels was a great babyface. Really good ending. Best television match from 2005 on the RAW side. Or maybe the Michaels/Benjamin match. Watch both.

Arn Anderson for best tag worker of all-time? That's an interesting choice. I would pick a lot of other folks above him, including the namesake of this thread who may be the best. Possibly Michaels too. Actually maybe not. Maybe it isn't a lot. Arn did some funny shit in tag matches. I'll pick a few above him. But Eaton for sure.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

How about Michaels' selling in that concussion angle in '96. (think it was concussion lol).


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

This took way longer that it should have. Keeping a few things in mind: I re-watched some of the stuff on here, not everything (some things I watched for the first time). There might be a couple matches on there I don't even consider good any more if I see them again tonight, but I ain't fucking re-watching them to find out. Even then, there are matches I didn't put on here that could maybe go on here if I re-watched those (which, again, I don't really want to). Either way, pretty sure I can say Michaels had 50 good singles matches in his career. Also, this is not "Shawn Michaels' 50 best singles matches"; this is "50 good Shawn Michaels singles matches". Whether it's just barely ''good'', easily ''good'', ''excellent'', ''great'', or ''MOTYC'' - if it's on here, I think it's good. Shawn necessarily wasn't good in all of these, either, and I could point to more than one match on here where I thought he was pretty much carried to a good (or better) match. Wish I could punch Yesterday Me directly in the face for deciding to do this because it was much harder than I thought it'd be. I was stuck on 49 for much linger than I'll admit.



Spoiler: (they're in chronological order)



Shawn Michaels v. Randy Savage (Rampage Tour 4/14/92)
Shawn Michaels v. Bret Hart (Rampage 6/2/92)
Shawn Michaels v. Bret Hart (Wrestling Challenge 7/21/92)
Shawn Michaels v. Davey Boy Smith (Saturday Night's Man Event 11/24/92)
Shawn Michaels v. Marty Jannetty (Raw 5/17/93)
Shawn Michaels v. Marty Jannetty (Raw 7/19/93)
Shawn Michaels v. The 1-2-3 Kid (Raw 12/6/93)
Shawn Michaels v. Razor Ramon (WrestleMania 3/20/94)
Shawn Michaels v. Razor Ramon (Raw 8/1/94)
Shawn Michaels v. Davey Boy Smith (Raw 3/6/95)
Shawn Michaels v. Jeff Jarrett (In Your House 7/23/95)
Shawn Michaels v. Buddy Landel (SMW Superbowl of Wrestling 8/4/95)
Shawn Michaels v. Razor Ramon (SummerSlam 8/27/95)
Shawn Michaels v. Owen Hart (Raw 11/20/95)
Shawn Michaels v. Owen Hart (In Your House 2/18/96)
Shawn Michaels v. The 1-2-3 Kid (Raw 3/4/96)
Shawn Michaels v. Leif Cassidy (Raw 3/25/96)
Shawn Michaels v. Bret Hart (WrestleMania 31/3/96)
Shawn Michaels v. Diesel (In Your House 4/28/96)
Shawn Michaels v. Hunter Hearst Helmsley (Raw 5/13/96)
Shawn Michaels v. Davey Boy Smith (King of the Ring 6/23/96)
Shawn Michaels v. Marty Jannetty (Raw 7/1/96)
Shawn Michaels v. Owen Hart (Raw 8/12/96)
Shawn Michaels v. Vader (SummerSlam 8/18/96)
Shawn Michaels v. Mankind (In Your House 9/22/96)
Shawn Michaels v. Sycho Sid (Survivor Series 11/17/96)
Shawn Michaels v. Steve Austin (King of the Ring 6/8/97)
Shawn Michaels v. Mankind (Raw 8/11/97)
Shawn Michaels v. The Undertaker (In Your House 9/7/97)
Shawn Michaels v. The Undertaker (In Your House 10/5/97)
Shawn Michaels v. Bret Hart (Survivor Series 11/9/97)
Shawn Michaels v. Owen Hart (Raw 12/29/97)
Shawn Michaels v. The Undertaker (Royal Rumble 1/18/98)
Shawn Michaels v. HHH (SummerSlam 8/25/02)
Shawn Michaels v. Chris Jericho (WrestleMania 3/30/03)
Shawn Michaels v. Mark Henry (Raw 11/3/03)
Shawn Michaels v. HHH (Raw 12/29/03)
Shawn Michaels v. Chris Benoit (Raw 2/16/04)
Shawn Michaels v. Chris Benoit (Raw 5/3/04)
Shawn Michaels v. Vince McMahon (WrestleMania 4/2/06)
Shawn Michaels v. Edge (Raw 1/22/07)
Shawn Michaels v. John Cena (WrestleMania 4/1/07)
Shawn Michaels v. John Cena (Raw 4/23/07)
Shawn Michaels v. Randy Orton (Survivor Series 11/18/07)
Shawn Michaels v. Jeff Hardy (Raw 2/11/08)
Shawn Michaels v. Ric Flair (WrestleMania 3/30/08)
Shawn Michaels v. Chris Jericho (Judgment Day 5/18/08)
Shawn Michaels v. Chris Jericho (Great American Bash 7/20/08)
Shawn Michaels v. The Undertaker (WrestleMania 4/5/09)
Shawn Michaels v. The Undertaker (WrestleMania 3/28/10)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

> Buddy Landell vs. Shawn Michaels (8/4/95)







Never seen this one.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho (Judgment Day 2000)

Talking about submission matches last night, don't think ive seen this one TBH.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That match tis really good. Not as good as their Backlash 00 or RR 01 matches but better than that trash 2/3 falls they attempted to have at SS 00.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I recommend watching the Street Fight with Edge on RAW in 2005. Great match. Blood gets on Edge's face and it looks like war paint. Edge was a scary monster in that match and Michaels was a great babyface. Really good ending. Best television match from 2005 on the RAW side. Or maybe the Michaels/Benjamin match. Watch both.
> 
> Arn Anderson for best tag worker of all-time? That's an interesting choice. I would pick a lot of other folks above him, including the namesake of this thread who may be the best. Possibly Michaels too. Actually maybe not. Maybe it isn't a lot. Arn did some funny shit in tag matches. I'll pick a few above him. But Eaton for sure.


I actually just watched another Street Fight from 2005, from Raw, with Edge, but not the one your thinking of. I haven't seen the Edge/Michaels street fight but I have a hard time believing it tops Hardy/Edge, this match gets slept on by a lot of people but I think it's truly great. Hardy was just so damn good in 2005 and he and Edge always brought the HATE~ as Cal would say. 

And you can make cases for Eaton being the best tag team guy and you won't hear a word of complaint from me. It's just for me personally Arn Anderson is my favorite and easily one of the best. He was incredible as a baby face but my word was he special when he was a heel. Very few heels can make a face look as good as Arn while still remaining 100% credible the entire time. And we all know how awesome he is at heel work overs.


----------



## ShaneMcMahon (May 23, 2014)

Dudleys vs Hardyz vs Edge and Christian:agree::agree::agree:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Decided to rewatch all three 2014 Sheamus/Barrett matches, and once again, I reverted to my original decision - 4/21 over 6/9. The thing about the 6/9 match is simply that it was slightly grittier and more physical (DEM HEADSHOTS THO), but, truth be said, the 4/21 match brought a few new things into the table when it comes to these two and their chemistry in the first place, and the outcome wasn't a complete ugh-sounder as much as a complete mark out moment to me. The Champion vs. Champion was good too, but the Raw matches completely stomp its ass, though.

But I don't think these two will ever have a match that beats their May 2013 Main Event match. That was poetry in motion.

Oh, and yeah, greatest Tag worker ever is Bobby Eaton imo.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone know the date of this promo:


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

3 October 1995



Spoiler: transcript






> I'll apologize for my behavior. I'm embarrased, and certainly feel a little stupid about the way I acted here on this show a few weeks ago. I get a little emotional when I talk about wrestling because wrestling's been my livelyhood for the part ten years. It's enabled me to live out my childhood dream. So for me to come out on a show such as the ECW television program and badmouth the wrestlers there, well, I'm sorry. But I think in order to understand what's going around in my head and what's going through it, you have to understand where I came from and what my goals were when I got into wrestling.
> 
> See, back in 1985, there was a program on 20/20 that challenged the wrestling industry, kind of portrayed it in a negative light. And Tommy, if you're listening, try to understand that I was about the world's biggest wrestling fan. And for me to stand in front of that television set and see people running down a business that I loved and held dear (even though I knew very little about it,) to see my friends laughing at me, saying "That's what you wanna get involved in?" That night I went to bed, not with visions of sugar plums dancing in my head, but of broken bones, of battered bodies, of bloodied corpses, saying to myself "If it's the last thing I do, if I have to hold myself up for a human sacrifice, the world will respect professional wrestling!" Oh, and that dream came through, yes, I've sacrificed myself for the past ten years and left the better parts of my past lying on concrete floors! From Africa, to Asia, to South America, to right into the middle of the ECW arena. And what's it really done? Where have we really come to? Lying in a hospital bed in Munich, Germany, watching my ear being thrown into a garbage can, not being able to take it on the trip back because I don't know the German word for formaldehyde... And having a nurse walk into my room, looking at that piece of my body that's laying in the bottom of a garbage, and saying "Das ist all ein schauspiel, ja?" Which means "It's all a big joke, right?" Excuse me, I didn't know you open up the lungs of a smoker and say "Oh, my golly, I thought smoking was supposed to be good for you!" Or open up Terry Funk's nonfunctioning liver and say "Oh, I didn't know that four decades of heavy drinking took this kind of toll!" So if they show that much respect to a patient, what made me any different?! Because I was a wrestler, and professional wrestling will never be respected, no matter how many teeth I lose, no matter how many ears I lose, no matter how many brain cells have to die.
> 
> ...







It's great, hey?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks. could well his best, certainly from ECW. But i need to see more of them TBH.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Watching Chi Town Rumble 89


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Getting back into my Volk Han watching:



Biggest win of his career up until that point. Some great submissions here, includes an excellent quick takedown which i wish i could do lol.

Now watching Han/Zouev, who himself is a great opponent for Han.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Beating Maeda at that point was fucking HUGE, imagine if someone today beat Cena, Rock, Austin and Lesnar in a 4-on-1 handicap match, with Hogan interfering on the side of big four.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chismo said:


> Beating Maeda at that point was fucking HUGE, imagine if someone today beat Cena, Rock, Austin and Lesnar in a 4-on-1 handicap match, with Hogan interfering on the side of big four.


:| Blimey. Even though i know very little about the promotion, or its history, i knew Maeda was big, even watching the match you could tell, without knowing anything TBH. Great after the match too, when Meada really put Han over, even when he was limping out of the ring. 

There was one point where Han just gets up after an 8 count i think, and as soon as he gets up, Maeda just clumps him one, and Han was totally not expecting it and was like 'Fucking hell' for a second lol.


----------



## Saber Rider ^-^ (Mar 15, 2014)

Brye said:


> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU3mzhk73W6yNKHLALHyLPg/videos
> 
> Youtube channel with over 100 Jake Roberts promos. :mark:


Wow, Epic channel, great find. This one's my personal favourite.






Reminds me of another one Punk did way back when. It's such a popular fable it's most likely not really a nod to Jake's one, it's still next level stuff though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Enjoy.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

*WCW Worldwide* (February 15, 1992)

Two weeks before taking on Lex Luger for the WCW Championship at Superbrawl II, Stinger went against Big Van Vader and I've got to say I forgot how well these two worked together. Just great stuff between the heavyweight vs. super heavyweight. Wouldn't see that again until the Hart Vs. Diesel series.

The Icon did his usual aerial arsenal and was even strong enough to pick up the 400 lbs. Mastadon! In the end, Sting outsmarted Vader. This was the first of many matches to come in their classic fued.

- Vic


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Akira Maeda is a worthless piece of vermin, but man that match with Han rules.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Akira Maeda is a worthless piece of vermin, but man that match with Han rules.


I think it was a match against Dick Vrij, i wanted Han to just knock him out or something. Came across as a right twat TBH.

Just watched Yoshihisa Yamamoto/Volk Han from '95. Excellent, quite even match which i though Yamamoto was going to win after knocking down Han with a fierce strike, but Volk prevailed with a great leg submission.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Stuck on a random SD 09 episode, it's the Jan 30th episode.

Features a fun Undertaker/Henry match I didn't remember happening. Was short and sweet, with Henry WINNING A PUNCH EXCHANGE against the fucking UNDERTAKER!!! Finish is hilarious with Undertaker trying to be all "MMA" with how he applies hells gate... but it doesn't work out and he looks like a complete arse :lmao. He grabs Henry's arm and looks to drop to the mat, roll over holding Henry's arm and locking in the submission. Henry doesn't budge :lmao.

Show also has the :mark: match between Big Show and FESTUS. Sweet jebus, Show practically kills Festus 20 seconds in with a spike DDT. Rest of the match is awesome.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Whatever happened to that Jesse guy, the buddy of Festus?



funnyfaces1 said:


> Akira Maeda is a worthless piece of vermin


:wow


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I remember Jesse re-debuted as SLAM MASTA J on ECW but I have no idea where he's been since.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Unfortunately I can't continue my Attitude Era project until putlocker is working again but luckily, I had SummerSlam 98 saved so I was able to finish this one.

*SummerSlam 1998:*

Val Venis vs D'Lo Brown - ★★¾
The Oddities vs Kai-En-Tai - FUCK OFF!
X-Pac vs Jeff Jarrett - ★★
Edge & Sable vs Marc Mero & Jacqueline - ★
Ken Shamrock vs Owen Hart - ★★★
New Age Outlaws vs Mankind - ★★
Triple H vs The Rock - ★★★¾
Stone Cold vs Undertaker - ★★★


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

You judging Rock and Triple H on what the ladder match has become since the tag teams of 99/00 and the MITB matches? Remember this was before all that. It wasn't for cruiserweights jumping all over the place at that time. The ladder was the star of the match, not the high flying stars. I miss slow paced ladder matches like SS98, but it won't ever be back because it just seems archaic to people nowadays.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm strictly judging it based on my enjoyment and I thought it was a great match, regardless of what came before or after it in terms of ladder matches. Great story with two competitive young athletes on the rise with a feud that had been building for months and just the stuff they did involving the ladder which obviously pale in comparison to the TLC matches that came later but that doesn't take away from it. Last five minutes in particular were excellent. Got pretty burned out after it was over and wasn't really in the mood for the main event which was kinda dull as it was.

That baseball slide with the ladder hitting Rock right in the face was pretty brutal. Wouldn't surprise me if he got cut open the hard way from that move.

Really looking forward to Rock in the main event over the next few months. Haven't seen any of the Mankind matches other than I Quit and the Raw where Foley wins the title, so it'll be something new and exciting.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Really looking forward to Rock in the main event over the next few months. Haven't seen any of the Mankind matches other than I Quit and the Raw where Foley wins the title, so it'll be something new and exciting.


You're gonna have to wait a bit for that, but you're going to love the triple threat cage match at Breakdown (the next PPV). I think that was the one and only PPV where someone got a bigger pop than Austin. And Rock technically was still a heel. From this point onward, Rock and Mankind become the best parts of the show.

I'm surprised that you didn't like Venis/Brown, X-Pac/Jarrett, and Mankind/NAO more. People usually point to this show as one of the peaks of the Attitude Era, and the reason for that is because of these midcard matches. I think I told you this before, but keep your eyes out for the Venis/Goldust feud. Their match at Judgment Day is a really fun sleeper gem. Also pay attention to Al Snow. Dude is hilarious. And better days are ahead for you because Marc Mero disappears around this time. My god that guy fucking sucked.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm surprised you didn't like Owen/Shamrock more, C2D. That match is really good, imo the MOTN of that show, even over Rock/HHH and X-Pac/Jarrett. 

But yeah, I always enjoyed the entirety of SS 1998 myself, certainly tied w/Judgment Day as PPV of the Year imo (even if it's not saying much since it's 98, but yeah I damn sure liked both of those shows).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm onto the Nitro a couple of weeks before Halloween Havoc. 

Hogan dressed up as Sting lol and together with the NWO, beat down Piper. Scott Hall got smacked in the face by a flying cup in the middle of a promo to lol. Jeff Jarrett has now left WCW, obviously he went back to WWF, just before he was booked at the WCW PPV.

Oh, I did have to smile. Disco Inferno is facing Jacqueline at the PPV, but the Vegas commission has decided it can't be for the title. They are perfectly ok with a man facing a woman in the ring, but not the for the title lol.

And Guerrero ripped Mysterio's mask off....nearly fully exposing him.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*WCW Halloween Havoc 1997*

*Yugi Nagata vs. Ultimo Dragon* ***
*Gedo vs. Chris Jericho* **
*WCW Cruiserweight Championship: Rey Mysterio vs. Eddie Guerrero (c)* *****
*Mongo McMichael vs. Alex Wright* * The star is for Goldberg turning up.
*Disco Inferno vs. Jacqueline* 1/2*
*WCW United States Championship: Ric Flair vs. Curt Hennig (c).* ***
*Scott Hall vs. Lex Luger* *
*Las Vegas Sudden Death Match: Macho Man Randy Savage vs. Diamond Dallas Page* ***3/4
*Steel Cage Grudge Match: Hollywood Hogan vs. Rowdy Roddy Piper* *



















Just two highlights. :mark:

Savage/DDP was great..........apart from the finish. Hated it TBH with another 'Fake Sting' setup. Would have preferred Page to win the feud, but it did help elevate DDP further, so.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Unfortunately I can't continue my Attitude Era project until putlocker is working again but luckily, I had SummerSlam 98 saved so I was able to finish this one.
> 
> *SummerSlam 1998:*
> 
> ...


iirc (and I'm not sure I do) that was the worst match I had ever sat through. Don't even know why I did sit through it. Hypnosis, perhaps.

I never liked Rock/HHH either :shrug


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

There was a person in this thread that liked that Oddities vs. Kaientai match more than Bret Hart vs. Undertaker.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Was it Cody? Or Yeah? Sounds like something they'd say :side:.

Just put in my IYH 18 DVD. 17 years ago today the GOAT match of all time ever in existence happened, so I'm gonna watch it again just because :mark:.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

:lmao

I was trying to watch every match from this show but I saw those ICP clowns (no pun intended) showing up and then saw all those odd (pun intended) fucks all over the ring and knew I should skip this bullshit. Kurrgan is Khali before Khali (Giant Gonzalez wore that weird body suit). I saw him in Brick Mansions a month ago and was a bit surprised that he's active in another way today.

I enjoy rap mixed with wrestling (coincidentally, both declined after two legends died almost back to back in both) but ICP fucking suck.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

There was a segment where the Headbangers beat the shit out of people (might have been ICP) and then the Bangers get on the mic and shout "INSANE CLOWN POSSE SUCK" to a thunderous ovation.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

funnyfaces1 said:


> There was a segment where the Headbangers beat the shit out of people (might have been ICP) and then the Bangers get on the mic and shout "INSANE CLOWN POSSE SUCK" to a thunderous ovation.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Summerslam 2008

Jeff Hardy vs MVP - **3/4 (1)
Santino Marella & Beth Phoenix vs Kofi Kingston & Mickie James - * (.5)
Matt Hardy vs Mark Henry- N/A
CM Punk vs JBL - **3/4 (1)
Triple H vs The Great Khali - DUD (0)
Batista vs John Cena - ****1/4 (6)
Edge vs Undertaker - *****1/2 (7)

Total: 15.5

- I remember really liking Hardy/MVP way back in 2008. Not so much here. Went too long but had a couple of cool spots with MVP countering that corner move Jeff does.

- Mixed tag had a couple fun moments but nothing really of note.

- Holy fuck Jericho absolutely duffs HBK's wife.

- Not gonna count Hardy/Henry, didn't even last a minute. Nice little segment though.

- Punk/JBL wasn't too bad. Had some slow spots to it but Punk's comeback was pretty decent. Punk took a beating but managed to find a way to win.

- Triple H/Khali was just awful. Couldn't really find anything redeeming about it.

- Batista/Cena absolutely owns. I feel like this match captured something that the 2010 ones couldn't. It felt way bigger. It sort of became Batista and Cena trying to outdo each other to get the win. Nothing wrong with that considering that's pretty much what the feud was.

- Edge/Taker is just fantastic. Great way to write off the loose ends of that feud. Love the callback spot to Survivor Series '07. Whole match keeps you captivated and the spots both guys take are pretty brutal, considering the blood feud, it makes sense.

- Definitely a two match show but those two matches are fantastic.

Wrestlemania - 31.5
No Way Out - 20
Summerslam - 15.5
One Night Stand - 14
Judgment Day - 13
Great American Bash - 11
Night of Champions - 9
Royal Rumble - 8
Backlash - 7


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Brye said:


> Summerslam 2008
> 
> Jeff Hardy vs MVP - **3/4 (1)
> Santino Marella & Beth Phoenix vs Kofi Kingston & Mickie James - * (.5)
> ...


Gotta say, I think you were pretty much spot on here about this show. I'm guessing you meant 4 and a half for Edge/Taker in the cell? Maybe you use a different rating system I'm not familiar with. Still, a solid match. Just watched it the other day. I think ****1/2 would be fair.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*****1/2 is a new one 8*D

Maybe everybody will start using that, as well as ****1/3, ****1/25 and shit like that :side:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> *WCW Halloween Havoc 1997*
> 
> *Yugi Nagata vs. Ultimo Dragon* ***
> *Gedo vs. Chris Jericho* **
> ...



I've seen a few guys try to recreate that backflip DDT spot that Eddie and Rey do, and none of them managed to pull it off as cleanly as they did there. Hell even Eddie and Rey tried it a few other times and never managed to do it that perfect. Has anyone else ever pulled it off? I specifically remember Punk and Bryan trying it and missing it, it might have been at OTL 2012 I'm not sure though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Don't get me wrong here, Rey's own performance on that match is great of course, but everything Eddie did I was just spellbinded by. His heel work was something else imo, picture perfect.

And Eddie in '97, the shape he was in too. My word.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't recall Punk and Bryan recreating that backflip DDT. I think I remember seeing Jeff Hardy do it. And I'm sure tons of folks in the indies have done it. But man. I think that match would be my choice for best in both men's careers, and maybe even best in WCW history. It's the only match that I can call "flawless".


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I think Rey and Jericho might have tried it during their 09 run together. But yeah, it doesn't seem to have ever been replicated as perfect as Rey/Eddie in 97, not even Rey/Eddie. In 97. 

My re-watch of HIAC last night being it was 17 years since it had happened went as well as I expected . Still loved it. Still think it's the greatest match to ever grace this business. 

Hope WWE start to pick up their shit and put some good shows together for a change. At this rate I'll probably stop watching .


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

If anyone ever replicated it better or to a similar degree I would be surprised. Mid 90s Rey is just other wordly in his athleticism.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Probably my most favorite match ever It's one thing to hit one or even two of those spots in a vacuum (guys in the indies have tried/most fail), but within the context of _everything_ else they put together there is just magical. First PPV I ever actually spent money on (my buddy was a DDP mark and we split it via saved allowance), and it solidified my love for wrestling - never looked back. But that match :banderas Nuthin' mo' betta.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I didn't know they had a rematch at World War 3. Which ill be coming up to soon.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

First time in a LONG time I watched this and I still love it. The match, the end where Hardy earned Undertaker's respect. Damn good.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Second best WWE ladder match IMO, behind Sheamus vs. Morrison. Love it so much.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*cough* Benoit/Jericho *cough*

 IMO.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

What Hitman said.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Rah said:


> If anyone ever replicated it better or to a similar degree I would be surprised. Mid 90s Rey is just other wordly in his athleticism.


He really was just a complete freak of nature. His balance, his coordination, and his ability to control his body in air is something I've never really seen since in wrestling. He is hands down one of the most innovative and original wrestlers ever. There is a chance, however slight, we will see a guy come along like Austin, or like The Rock, or Shawn Michaels, or even The Undertaker. I'm fairly confident we will never ever see anyone like Rey Mysterio again. He set the bar to un reachable heights.




funnyfaces1 said:


> I don't recall Punk and Bryan recreating that backflip DDT. I think I remember seeing Jeff Hardy do it. And I'm sure tons of folks in the indies have done it. But man. I think that match would be my choice for best in both men's careers, and maybe even best in WCW history. It's the only match that I can call "flawless".


Watch OTL 2012 again sometime, one cause it's one of the best matches ever, and two because I SWEAR I saw them try to do it. They came close but Punk landed on top of Bryan instead of beside him so he couldn't really hook the DDT properly. It would make sense for them to try and pay homage to Eddie and Rey because Punk is such an Eddy mark and Bryan is a HUGE fan of Rey. That's one thing I'm sad about, we never got to see an in his prime heel Danielson vs in his prime Rey in a PPV match. That could have been golden.



Brock said:


> I didn't know they had a rematch at World War 3. Which ill be coming up to soon.


WW3 is a damn good match, I think I gave it ****, but it does have a few missed moves. Otherwise it's just more Eddy greatness. You're right when he came back from that injury in 1997 he lost all his baby fat and was just completely shredded. Not an ounce of fat on him.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I gotta go back and watch that Benoit/Jericho ladder match. The last time I watched it was in 2003. Honestly.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I was thinking about a Bryan/Mysterio match the other day, and only found this one: Raw 26.11.2012


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Since current wrestling is boring me, I'm going back to the CLASSICS instead. Already watched those 2 epic Flair/Windham matches and then the first HIAC match (ha, all 3 make up my top 3 matches of all time list). Now I'm watching the awesome Final Four match :mark:. Vader's blade job is amazing. Half his face is just RED. The other half probably would have been had the mask not blocked the way for the blood .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching the 10/27/1997 Nitro, Hogan vs Page is a damn fine match, Hogan actually worked and gave a shit. Well done DDP. 

*Sting descends from rafters & takes out members of the NWO (WCW Monday Nitro 10/20/1997)*



Another awesome crazy ending to a Nitro. Everytime Tony says "We gotta go", im always like 'Fuck off Tony, dammit". Great stuff though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

#ROOT said:


> Since current wrestling is boring me, I'm going back to the CLASSICS instead. Already watched those 2 epic Flair/Windham matches and then the first HIAC match (ha, all 3 make up my top 3 matches of all time list). Now I'm watching the awesome Final Four match :mark:. Vader's blade job is amazing. Half his face is just RED. The other half probably would have been had the mask not blocked the way for the blood .


Well the four way help up extremely well. Still an epic all out war between 4 of THE best wrestlers on the planet in 1997 (US, anyway, I ain't no exermapert with the Japanese wrestling). Did :lmao at one point though when Austin whipped Vader on the outside into what I assume was SUPPOSED to be the steel steps... but Undertaker did that to Vader earlier in the match and the steps got knocked away... so Vader just has to keep on going past them looking confused as fuck until he decides to crush the poor time keeper :lmao.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Great Muta is better than all 4 combined. :side:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

lmao at how big of a JIMMY WANG YANG mark my dad is. I wake up this morning and he's telling me about this JWY vs Gregory Helms match he found on youtube.

My dad is a huge mark for Finlay, Jimmy Wang Yang, Santino, Larry Zybyszko, Pepper Gomez (he used to go to live shows when Zybyszko/Gomez was big.) and Big Show. Greatest assortment of people ever.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Flux said:


> Second best WWE ladder match IMO, behind Sheamus vs. Morrison. Love it so much.


I love that Sheamus/Morrison match. I'll take a match like that over every single spotty ladder match that WWE seems to have.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

When watching those Michaels matches a few days ago I fell totally in love with the Michaels/Hart ladder match. Being the first ladder match, the ladder itself felt like a gigantic looming hazard when they weren't using, and there was almost a ''surprise'' when it was used as a weapon. Thought it was about as ''smartly'' worked as any gimmick match the company's probably ever had, and literally every spot in that match meaningful and had significant impact. Loved the finish. Loved the whole thing. I'm not too worried I'll like Michaels/Razor any less now. In fact I almost want to go out of my way to watch the two of them again.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I thought I was the only one here that loved that ladder match. I faintly remember it being a topic of conversation here once and it was unanimously panned. In fact, I think Yeah1993 was the leader of this erroneous opinion. Thank goodness that one other man is back in their senses.

Is that three straight matches where Sheamus lost to the superior Miz? Excellent stuff.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I also like that ladder match. Unlike Fella/Nitro.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I thought I was the only one here that loved that ladder match. I faintly remember it being a topic of conversation here once and it was unanimously panned. In fact, I think Yeah1993 was the leader of this erroneous opinion. Thank goodness that one other man is back in their senses.
> 
> Is that three straight matches where Sheamus lost to the superior Miz? Excellent stuff.


I'm positive I've never panned it. I never thought it was great (like I do now), but I never thought is less than, IDK, ''OK'', either. Pretty sure I actually never thought it was less than good but I don't remember.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Brye said:


> lmao at how big of a JIMMY WANG YANG mark my dad is. I wake up this morning and he's telling me about this JWY vs Gregory Helms match he found on youtube.
> 
> My dad is a huge mark for Finlay, Jimmy Wang Yang, Santino, Larry Zybyszko, Pepper Gomez (he used to go to live shows when Zybyszko/Gomez was big.) and Big Show. Greatest assortment of people ever.


Much better than my dad who marks for Booker T fpalm


I was watching some old TNA clips and just remembered how big of a Beer Money mark I was. What's the general opinion on Storm and Roode here? I remember digging the hell out of the best of 5 series they had against MCMG, although I've never rewatched it.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I said in here one time that I really loved the Eddie/Rey ladder match from Summerslam 05 and everybody hated me... :side:.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao I'm listening to an Undertaker promo and out of nowhere, he starts singing Aretha Franklin lyrics.

Beer Money ruled. Bobby Roode and James Storm are great.

Eddie/Rey ladder match was so disappointing. Reminded me of Edge/Christian ladder match. Instead of trying to tell a story, both matches just consisted of shitty spots.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao I'm listening to an Undertaker promo and out of nowhere, he starts singing Aretha Franklin lyrics.


His version>the original

R-E-S-P-E-C-T, Taker, that's what you mean to me! :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

RAVEN said:


> Much better than my dad who marks for Booker T fpalm
> 
> 
> I was watching some old TNA clips and just remembered how big of a Beer Money mark I was. What's the general opinion on Storm and Roode here? I remember digging the hell out of the best of 5 series they had against MCMG, although I've never rewatched it.


I need to watch that best of 5 series tbh. I did love the heck out of Storm vs Roode at Bound For Glory.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I also loved that Roode/Storm Street Fight. Hell, I was a fan of that PPV in general. Aries/Hardy was a badass ME too.

And how the hell did Eddie/Rey Ladder not try to tell a story? Sure, the match was a bit spotty and rather sloppy when it came to some of its spots and all, but Goddamn, stupidity of the storyline aside, Rey had me kneeing down in hopes that he would "gain his child's custody" and wipe the smug and douchebaggy smile off of the heel god that was Eddie. Who was just awesome in his "caring father" role. The ending was quite a feelgood moment, kayfabe wise. Character work was off the charts in that match. I don't see why does that Ladder match get shat on so much.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rey was terrible at drawing sympathy, but I can't blame him because of how dumb that storyline was and because of how awesome Eddie was at the time. The ending was not a feel good moment at all. It was cheesy and poorly executed. Both Dominick and Vickie's presences made the match even worse. I legitimately can't think of one thing that I liked about that match. Well, Eddie's outrage and facial expressions. But even he was off his game that night.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The ending was exactly what it needed to be - Eddie's wife seeing that Eddie was kinda of an asshole and turning on him - and Rey getting to keep his child and come over Eddie yet again. I really don't see where was it cheesy or poorly executed. Storyline's to blame for the cheesiness of it, if it's even there which I didn't notice myself. Vickie obviously fucked up hard in timing, and her presence wasn't too graceful, admitedly. But without her, the ending wouldn't have felt proper. Dominick was distractive, but I felt not enough so that I ignored what was going on completely. In a story, every loose end needs to click. Vickie or even the kid interfering in Rey's behalf would've been the only sense making end if the outcome was to have Rey win. And Rey can draw symphathy like not many other people could. Admitedly, in this particular match, he didn't have that much of a chance to, but the (stupid) storyline still made you cheer for him to give Eddie his (millionth) comeuppance. And he did try, quite hard.

Storyline-wise the match was fine. It did have its shortcomings on the side of the spots (some sloppy, some retarded), but when the story kinda works, I don't care. It's basically the HBK/Jericho Ladder match all over again in that case.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Eddie and Rey DID tell a story, it's just that it was a very shitty story, hence the match is terrible.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Jericho is still claiming in interviews that he and Orton stole the show at NOC :ti

Cesaro/Sheamus owned that show.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

RatedR10 said:


> Jericho is still claiming in interviews that he and Orton stole the show at NOC :ti
> 
> Cesaro/Sheamus owned that show.


:meltzer


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I remember enjoying the hell out of the best of 5 series. However, my taste in wresting has changed A LOT since the. Also, I don't think the booking of the matches was a wise decision either looking back on it. I think it was two weeks in a row we got a ladder and a cage match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

RatedR10 said:


> Jericho is still claiming in interviews that he and Orton stole the show at NOC :ti
> 
> Cesaro/Sheamus owned that show.


I really, really didn't like Orton/Jericho. Technically it wasn't really poorly worked but it was just bad. And that set up for the finish.

Started Unforgiven '08 the other day but then my BOLA DVDs came so I'm waiting until I finish those to get back to it.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Brye said:


> I really, really didn't like Orton/Jericho. Technically it wasn't really poorly worked but it was just bad. And that set up for the finish.
> 
> Started Unforgiven '08 the other day but then my BOLA DVDs came so I'm waiting until I finish those to get back to it.


The set up for the finish was called from a mile away lol. And IIRC, Orton took forever to get up. I'm not sure though, I didn't watch the match since the event.

It wasn't a bad match, but the result was never in question and they never did anything to get me invested. Jericho was on his way out, Orton needed a win. It was just an average match.

I don't know if Jericho is just being a smart ass with his comments or if he legitimately believes he and Orton stole the show on a card that had a much better Cesaro/Sheamus match, Lesnar/Cena match and Tag Title match.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Spoiler: Smackdown



Seems like we're getting that Ambrose vs. Rollins HIAC match after all.

Cena/Ambrose is a No Holds Barred Contract on a Pole Match


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Spoiler: Smackdown



Maybe they made the match that because Cena's gonna win and they wanted to protect Ambrose...


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Spoiler: Smackdown
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe they made the match that because Cena's gonna win and they wanted to protect Ambrose...


:no


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Hopefully it'll be a good match. Ambrose has to win though. I don't care how, I want him to win so he and Rollins could steal the show.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Spoiler: Smackdown



Such gimmick being made just to protect Ambrose in spite of a Cena win is also a great fear and damn near confirmation for me. Please, please, please Gods. DO NOT FUCK THIS UP.

Also, Rusev/Ziggler on SD should rule.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Well, it's Smackdown. Do we not have results from the tapings? Or is everyone still enamored by The Rock coming back?





Spoiler: Smackdown



I assume that's their match for the PPV, then? STUPID but Cena loses, duh.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Had no internet all day yesterday (still not right today, got a text saying it should be fully set up and stable by the afternoon...), so I continued to watch another CLASSIC because fuck current wrestling.

Ended up with ANOTHER In Your House PPV Main Event lol. Say what you will about the old IYH PPV's, but almost every single one of those events gave us at least ONE pretty sweet match. The one I watched was International Incident, a 6 man tag between Bulldog, Vader & Owen facing off against HBK, SID and Ahmed Johnson. What an awesome match still. Reminds me of something we'd get in the Dangerous Alliance days of WCW. Oh and SID was over like a motherfucker. Cornette promising to refund every man, women and child who ordered the PPV if his team didn't win was some nice old school schtick and built up anticipation even more for the match. VADER pinned the champion! Vader pinned HBK!!! How they missed this AND the fucking HIAC match from the IYH best of set blows my mind.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao What happened?

EDIT: To bring back life to this thread, I would like someone to convince me that Brock Lesnar's current title reign has not and will not be a disappointment.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Watching WCW 2000 up to the Nitro before New Blood Rising and these shoot interviews with Nash and Goldberg are fpalm.

Nash talks about Hall being inshape to return (despite losing Hall's contract to Goldberg), Hall helping Goldberg, WCW being small till The Outsiders showed up and winning the triple threat at NBR no matter what "The Bookers" had to say about it.
Goldberg's was even worst. He talks about playing a heel, Nash booking himself to beat um at Starrcade and telling Nash to get back on the booking commitee as that's the only way Nash'll win at NBR.

Not only are they blatantly telling the fans it's fake, you then get fans questioning weather what they're seeing is real or fake which doesn't help immerse them in the product.
How could a company who made it big off people like The nWo, Sting & Goldberg forget this.




funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao What happened?
> 
> EDIT: To bring back life to this thread, I would like someone to convince me that Brock Lesnar's current title reign has not and will not be a disappointment.


The timing of his title win combined with the booking is just :no:,

Gotta make a big match for *Summerslam* but you need those renewals come *Night of Champions*, then you have a PPV featuring the biggest match in the companies history: *HIAC*. What was the problem with having him win at say Survivor Series instead ? Wins title at SSeries, skips TLC, retains title at RRumble, skips EC and finally loses the belt at Mania.

His first defense and one of few PPV appearances ends with a BS dq loss, and now we wait for the 3rd Lesnar/Cena match. Fresh opponent ? nah that's just dumb Lesnar will be back again in....yeah :no:

Worst part is I saw all this coming a mile away but once again I stupidly put my faith in the company.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

> Kofi Kingston: 'Adrian Neville could be the greatest WWE superstar of all time'
> 
> “Some of the things he does are just incredible, he calls himself the man that gravity forgot, and he just defies gravity with everything he does. For me, as a fan, I think he’s going to be one of the greatest of all time when he gets it all going. As a performer I would love to get in there with him and mix it up, I think our styles would mesh well and produce a great match for the people watching.”


Source


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

bme said:


> Watching WCW 2000 up to the Nitro before New Blood Rising and these shoot interviews with Nash and Goldberg are fpalm.
> 
> Nash talks about Hall being inshape to return (despite losing Hall's contract to Goldberg), Hall helping Goldberg, WCW being small till The Outsiders showed up and winning the triple threat at NBR no matter what "The Bookers" had to say about it.
> Goldberg's was even worst. He talks about playing a heel, Nash booking himself to beat um at Starrcade and telling Nash to get back on the booking commitee as that's the only way Nash'll win at NBR.
> ...


I was watching a Nitro from 1997 and Hall bought up Terry Taylor in a promo too. I'm surprised no one has mentioned Kevin Sullivan booking some of this stuff yet tbh.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I don't know what possessed me to do this but I randomly stuck in No Mercy 2000 and now I can't stop :lmao at fucking Rikishi. I did it 4 da rock. I'm a bad man. I can't believe how comically awful this turned out until Trips got involved and saved it of course. Seriously though, why Rikishi lol? Surely somebody had to know it would turn out shit. 

The Gauntlet Tag Team Table Match was a lot of fun though.

EDIT - Austin flying down to the ring in a pick-up and I'm strangely reminded of Dean and the hot dog cart. I think wrestling may have finally succeeded in driving me insane. Honestly, there's a giant fatass in a thong fighting a guy in shiny black patent knee braces and they're whipping each other. :side:

William Regal is having a match with Naked Mideon. The fans are restless. And people say the AE was flawless, eh?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Worst match I've seen all week is the 5 on 5 Canadian Stampede match. Life is good . I've never been the biggest fan of this match, especially compared to other people around here, but it's sill great. Goes a little downhill when Austin is taken out of the match and then Shamrock gets involved and is utterly terrible :lmao. But the rest try to hold it together the best they can, then things pick up again as Austin hobbles back out followed shortly by Owen too. Gotta wonder how much better the match could have been with HBK in it.

Some STARS~! for stuff I've watched this week:

Undertaker/HBK HIAC - ************************************* GOAT
Flair/Windham BOTB II - *****
Flair/Windham WWW '87 - *****
Undertaker/Austin/Bret/Vader - ****3/4
Vader, Owen & Bulldog/Sid, HBK & Ahmed - ****1/4
Bret, Owen, Bulldog, Anvil & Pillman Vs Austin, Goldust, Shamrock & LOD - ****


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

This Kurt Angle interviewing Rock segment though :lmao :lmao :lmao. Olympic Hero Angle is GOAT lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Best interview Rock's ever done .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Trips/Benoit rocked. What a match. My only complaint is Benoit completely forgot to sell the leg for the second half of the match. It's sort of like Cena/HBK in that way. Other than that though, I really liked it and hadn't seen it in years *****1/4* and yes, Triple H did an AA on Chris Benoit and he did it better. Eat your heart out John Cena. 8*D


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rah said:


> Source


I saw a bit of KENTA's match on NXT this week and it started with a totally awful fighting spirit elbow bullshit thing and now I really would like to see KENTA and Kofi create the WWE junior version of HHH v. Scott Steiner.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> Trips/Benoit rocked. What a match. My only complaint is Benoit completely forgot to sell the leg for the second half of the match. It's sort of like Cena/HBK in that way. Other than that though, I really liked it and hadn't seen it in years *****1/4* and yes, Triple H did an AA on Chris Benoit and he did it better. Eat your heart out John Cena. 8*D


Gave that match * :lmao.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I actually like their Raw 2004 'Ironman' match, but still havn't seen the NM one....yet.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brock said:


> I actually like their Raw 2004 'Ironman' match, but still havn't seen the NM one....yet.


Well their iron man is pretty good, so understandable you'd like it . No Mercy is trash though. TRASH.

Iron Man link if anyone wants to watch it. Not the best Iron Man match, never really picks up and goes into a high gear, but they keep a constant pace throughout which is impressive http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k45pVGmS3ZtVv84Ktiu.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> Trips/Benoit rocked. What a match. My only complaint is Benoit completely forgot to sell the leg for the second half of the match. It's sort of like Cena/HBK in that way. Other than that though, I really liked it and hadn't seen it in years *****1/4* and yes, Triple H did an AA on Chris Benoit and he did it better. Eat your heart out John Cena. 8*D



I gave that match ***3/4, only time you will ever see Trips out work Chris freaking Benoit in a match. Trips did everything right and had a bad ass work over, then Benoit totally forgot to sell. Ugh, should have been so much better. I'll defend Trips in 2000 til the death, he was just unbelievably good that entire year and even through May 2001 when he blew out his quad he was killing it.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

That was Triple H in his absolute prime in that time period.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Benoit/HHH NM 00 I think I have at ***1/2-***3/4. Been a while since I've seen. None of the Benoit/HHH (singles) matches get **** from me, but I don't think any are below ***1/2 (at least the main few). A very tight set of matches.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Benoit/HHH NM gets ***3/4 for me as well, which I believe is the same I gave to each of their Vengeance and Iron Man matches imo. Though I do think it's the worst of their 'major' matches. They had really good chemistry, it seems. And yeah, HHH in 2000 was really, really good.

Rock/Angle from that show is also pretty good. Mostly because of Angle's antics, but yeah. Certainly 100 times better than their lifeless and boring NWO match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> Worst match I've seen all week is the 5 on 5 Canadian Stampede match. Life is good . I've never been the biggest fan of this match, especially compared to other people around here, but it's sill great. Goes a little downhill when Austin is taken out of the match and then Shamrock gets involved and is utterly terrible :lmao. But the rest try to hold it together the best they can, then things pick up again as Austin hobbles back out followed shortly by Owen too. Gotta wonder how much better the match could have been with HBK in it.
> 
> Some STARS~! for stuff I've watched this week:
> 
> ...


I have the Final Four bout at ****1/2 and the Canadian Stampede tag at ****1/2 but the rest of my rankings line up with yours, although I have one match (Austin/Bret WM 13) above Taker/HBK as the "GOAT" match. After all the AJPW stuff I've been watching recently I think Flair/Steamboat COTC has been unseated for the #3 spot by Hansen/Kobashi 7/29/93. That match is everything that is good about pro wrestling.

Cal when you did that nifty "Best Dream Streak Matches" list before WM 30 the one guy you left off that absolutely should have been on that list is Stan Hansen. Salty, Ornery, Pissed Off, 1993 Stan Hansen vs 2008 Undertaker could end up being the best Streak match ever.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I've not seen much of Hansen so I'm not much of a fan of the guy atm tbh, hence his exclusion from my list.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

#ROOT said:


> I've not seen much of Hansen so I'm not much of a fan of the guy atm tbh, hence his exclusion from my list.


Hansen, Funk and a river (WWA 06/23/90)







I wish the whole match was online.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rah said:


> Hansen, Funk and a river (WWA 06/23/90)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ill check the Funk comp.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I used to think that Damien Sandow thought of "thank you for your irrelevant opinion!". Heyman used it back in 2002.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching a late '97 Nitro, Zybysko referred to the 'Internet nitwits' lol.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao Test, Mark Henry, and Faarooq had a feud over cars in 2002. Test nearly kills Mark Henry because he's such a shitty driver and Mark Henry ends up lifting up a car the next week with ease. Test gets angry so he beats up Faarooq. And all the while, Funaki and gang are placing bets on Mark Henry's feats of strengths.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I've seen that skit. Henry tries see how long he can push a car with his legs and Test revs on it and the rest are all ''what wrong with you bitch?''


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

So apparently Brock isn't gonna show up until January, where he'll defend his title against...



Spoiler: God damn it



:cena4



fpalm


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I told all of you that Brock Lesnar as champion would be a bad idea, but noooo you wanted to revert back to the Stone Age where champions only fought once every blue moon. This is why you should avoid bad influences like Bill Watts and Jim Ross, as their ideas only set wrestling back. Now I hope all of you understand just how much we took November 20, 2011 - January 27, 2013 for granted.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Wow. If true no title defenses from October to January. That's absurd. Actually, that's infuriating.

What the hell does Brock actually do outside of wrestling that requires so much time? Can't pencil in about 8 dates between now and January? It'd still be shit feuds with no build anyway but at least there'd be some title matches.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Huntin' and fishin' :brock

But in all seriousness, it's horse shit that he isn't gonna defend the title ONCE until the Rumble. I was thinking every other month or something. And as for who he's going to defend against when he comes back? WTF. If you're gonna have someone wrestle that infrequently, don't have him wrestle the same people every time.


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

*Titus O'Neil vs Sami Zayn - WWE NXT 10/9
****

Match of the Titus career


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

ZEROVampire said:


> *Titus O'Neil vs Sami Zayn - WWE NXT 10/9
> ****
> 
> Match of the Titus career


MUST. SEE. THIS.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I was all for Brock's reign, especially when I read they had paid for 25 more dates, but now that he's not supposed to defend until the Rumble and WWE's philosophy of "well, it's $9.99, so the fans shouldn't expect much for PPVs" is bullshit. It's even more bullshit that we won't get any different matches. No Lesnar/Orton, no Lesnar/Sheamus, no nothing. Just Cena until he drops the damn thing to Reigns fpalm

On another note, how stupid is that WWE philosophy when it comes to PPVs and their network? They're the only business that pops to mind that actually limits themselves in such a way and intentionally delivers a shitty product.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> I've not seen much of Hansen so I'm not much of a fan of the guy atm tbh, hence his exclusion from my list.


I would suggest fixing this whenever you feel like it. Hansen is one of the best I've ever seen, and seeing as how I've read every review you've written, I kinda have a feeling for what you dig and I can say with complete confidence you would REALLY dig Hansen. He's the bees knees.



funnyfaces1 said:


> I told all of you that Brock Lesnar as champion would be a bad idea, but noooo you wanted to revert back to the Stone Age where champions only fought once every blue moon. This is why you should avoid bad influences like Bill Watts and Jim Ross, as their ideas only set wrestling back. Now I hope all of you understand just how much we took November 20, 2011 - January 27, 2013 for granted.


Having Brock as champion is not a bad idea. In fact, it's a GREAT idea. How Vince/WWE have chosen to use him is the bad idea. He signed an agreement when he won the title saying as long as WWE payed his fee, he would show up whenever he was called upon. It's on Vince for being cheap and not wanting to use Brock often enough.

Most people with any common sense would say Brock should face Orton at SVS in St. Louis, Ortons home town. They could have a great back and forth match that ultimately culminates in Orton getting "seriously injured" in the end so they can take him off TV for a few months and give his face a rest. Then Brock could face either Sheamus or Bryan at the Rumble. Personally, I think Bryan vs Brock should be the main event of WM 31, but it appears they are dead set on shotgunning Reigns to that spot so atleast give us Bryan/Brock at the Rumble, that is if he's healthy. Sheamus can be the backup if Bryan can't go.

Then Lesnar could defend his title and win at EC and go on to face whoever wins the rumble at WM 31. Simple. It would cost WWE a good chunk of change but it would obviously be worth it. Brock's their best heel, they need him around d everyonce in a while, 3 months is too long.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Having Brock as champion is not a bad idea. In fact, it's a GREAT idea. How Vince/WWE have chosen to use him is the bad idea. He signed an agreement when he won the title saying as long as WWE payed his fee, he would show up whenever he was called upon. It's on Vince for being cheap and not wanting to use Brock often enough.
> 
> Most people with any common sense would say Brock should face Orton at SVS in St. Louis, Ortons home town. They could have a great back and forth match that ultimately culminates in Orton getting "seriously injured" in the end so they can take him off TV for a few months and give his face a rest. Then Brock could face either Sheamus or Bryan at the Rumble. Personally, I think Bryan vs Brock should be the main event of WM 31, but it appears they are dead set on shotgunning Reigns to that spot so atleast give us Bryan/Brock at the Rumble, that is if he's healthy. Sheamus can be the backup if Bryan can't go.
> 
> Then Lesnar could defend his title and win at EC and go on to face whoever wins the rumble at WM 31. Simple. It would cost WWE a good chunk of change but it would obviously be worth it. Brock's their best heel, they need him around everyonce in a while, 3 months is too long.


Brock Lesnar is the reason why we aren't seeing more Brock Lesnar. The ball is in his court, not anyone else's. With that said, I can't blame Brock for not appearing more often because he made that clear for the past ten years. But with how depleted this roster is due to injuries, Brock is needed in the WWE more than ever. He is their best heel and biggest star, and the show feels so empty without both him and the championship.

One thing that I've heard from so many here that I completely disagree with is this idea that champions don't need to appear often or even wrestle often in order to make the title seem important. That style of booking died before all of us were born. Having a champion that defends the title every couple months doesn't give off the impression that every title match is must-see. What it does instead is give off the impression that the champion is not able to take on all challengers and is able to hold on to the title because of his laziness instead of his ability. Even a cowardly champion should not delay title matches.

If it was up to me, I would have Brock defend at every PPV. All of them. And different opponents in every single match. Yes, the roster is depleted, but there is still so much talent that can have a one month program with Lesnar. And it's so simple to build up that short program with the man because a Brock Lesnar feud does not need intricate James Joyce level storytelling to be effective. On top of that, so many talents on the roster need that interaction with the "untouchables", and merely being in the presence of Brock is a good enough to put anyone over. We should have Brock/Orton. We should have Brock/Sheamus. We should have already seen Brock/Jericho years ago. Heck, let the Intercontinental Champion wrestle him in a world title match and you would accomplish a bunch of different things in one program. But for some odd reason, this company has deemed that in two years, only one person who debuted after Brock left is worthy enough to face him. And it just so happens that the chosen individual has left seemingly forever. Just inexcusable to let these opportunities squander.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Seriously, I would have booked this as a huge marketing attempt to get more subscribers to the network. Lesnar defends on EVERY PPV, but doesn't appear on TV and Heyman does his hype. What does Heyman say to explain this? 

As the champion - Lesnar will appear when and where he wants. If the people want to see the WWE World champion, they can go subscribe to the WWE Network to see the WWE champion compete every month.

But no, WWE's business philosophy and marketing campaign for the network is to shove the price down viewer's throats instead and half-ass all their PPVs since "fans shouldn't have high expectations because of the price."


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The roster honestly isn't even depleted. There's tons of great, healthy talent, with absolutely no direction.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

What bothers me most is that all of 2013 was built on creating momentum for young talent, and to the WWE's credit, they did a spectacular job at accomplishing such a task. By Wrestlemania time, there were a lot of wrestlers on the roster that felt like main eventers that were one match or one feud away from solidifying themselves. Now it almost feels like all that hard work in 2013 has squandered. I've been the most ardent defender here of 2011-2013, and the reason why is because the cast of new and young talent from those years in my opinion are the best talents that the WWE ever had. It took about two-three years, but so many of them were ready. And now all that work from 2011-2013 — all that hard work that was done really well — means nothing. It almost feels like this entire time, I was supporting and putting a good word for what turned out to be one big lie.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah, not even 2012 had me so pessimistic about the future and everyone knows how much I was shitting on that year. This year had so much potential to lead us into the next era but they just fucked it all up and all the guys who were supposed to be main eventers were ruined one way or another. The Shield are the only ones that haven't suffered from this but chances are, they'll screw this up even when they _are_ pushing one of them (Reigns) by doing the lazy superman routine which has already gotten old now and will be insufferable come WM31.

I really don't have any long term hopes for this company. Bryan is going to be slowed down by the injury, Reigns needs to improve a million times before he's worth my time, Sheamus has been lowered on the card, Cesaro got buried, Ryback got buried, Wyatt lost all his mystique (I'm not even a big fan or anything) and what else have I forgotten?


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

^ I'd say you forgot Barrett, but he got buried in 2010 I suppose.

Pains me that he isn't a top heel.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Stone Age where champions only fought once every blue moon. This is why you should avoid bad influences like Bill Watts and Jim Ross, as their ideas only set wrestling back.


What Stone Age? What ideas? 

I don't think a part timer should ever champion, though. The ''top dog'' in your promotion wrestles once every 4 months. Yeah, genius. Hell, I don't like part timers in general. These folk spend years away from wrestling, come back and are better than the best best guy who's been wrestling twice a week? WWE only makes part timers look good, when they should be giving a non-part timer a rub (aka somebody who could be in the business a long time, and, well, frequently). Doesn't even have to be a win, just a rub. Oh, yeah, there was that one time Lesnar beat Taker at Mania, so the part timer gave the part timer a big rub. Cool. It's clear that the part timers are there to make immediate money for WWE and that just tells me that have no idea what to do with the future. Wrestling in the past may be better than wrestling in the present, but as the wrestling company you shouldn't be parading that to everybody. So weird that a company that can ignore history so swiftly and call every new episode of Raw or Orton/Cena match ''historic'' or ''the biggest match ever'' is also so quick to show the Rock on camera and try to remind us that he's clearly superior to anybody who's worked on WWE TV in the past ten years.

They just don't have any faith in the newer guys. Instead of letting the Ambrose/Rollins feud play out and watching how the crowd responds, they immediately assume that the majority won't take to it and throw Cena in to make sure they get Cena Money from it. The new guys don't even get a chance before they're looked at as not good enough. And the fucking imbecile writers they have don't exactly help. I was happy when Brian Gewirtz lost his job because I thought creative might get a little better. Has it? We're maybe not seeing anything as fucking stupid as the Kane/Lita/Baby angle, but, fuck's sake.....watch some 83 Memphis CWA and borrow from their ideas. Wrestling people are so stubborn, too. "all these people on the internet, do they think they can write a better angle?" You want the truth? Fuck yes I think I could write a better angle. I think almost anybody reading this could. So fuck you. Yeah, you? WWE writer reading this? Fuck you, you suck. Make another bunny suit wrestler and fill another briefcase with green slime.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Remember after WM30 & the Raw the night after how it seemed like everything was moving in the right direction?

Then, right back to the status quo and any sort of star building was dead. Especially Cesaro. What a mess that was.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

RatedR10 said:


> Just Cena until he drops the damn thing to Reigns fpalm


This is my issue. All we are going to get from Brock between now and Wrestlemania is another fucking match with Cena, and then he just drops the belt to Reigns.

Fuck sake.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rah said:


> Hansen, Funk and a river (WWA 06/23/90)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here you go:

*Terry Funk vs Stan Hansen (WWA 06.23.1990)*

x27md0y


----------



## Mike Smalling (Sep 30, 2005)

obby said:


> ^ I'd say you forgot Barrett, but he got buried in 2010 I suppose.
> 
> Pains me that he isn't a top heel.


There has never been an English World champion in WWE history.

I thought Barrett would break the trend. Now that there is one title, I guess I was wrong.


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

Brock said:


> This is my issue. All we are going to get from Brock between now and Wrestlemania is another fucking match with Cena, and then he just drops the belt to Reigns.
> 
> Fuck sake.


think they will change their minds and do Bryan or Batista vs Brock @ Royal Rumble. I don't buy Orton because I don't think WWE really keen on the idea.. And IF he works Elimination Chamber the last two will be Brock Lesnar & John Cena inside the Chamber or they do a one on one gimmick match between the two to close the show (Chamber match can be RR winner defend his spot, especially, if its Bryan, Ambrose, or Reigns since its easy to see because The Authority hates their guts)..


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Continuing with my "watch some fun stuff because fuck current wwe":

Vader Vs The Undertaker - Canadian Stampede - Fun match, best one they had together, which is honestly disappointing because it still wasn't that great imo. Better than their RR encounter, but still not the kind of epic match you would expect from the two best "big men" of all time. Paul Bearer on the outside was fucking tremendous though. Every time he saw a camera focusing on him he'd point at Undertaker and just scream MURDERER! MURDERER! at him :lmao. Always impressive to see Undertaker tombstone someone the size of Vader (so just vader and henry I guess lol). ***1/2 for this one.

Vader Vs Shamrock - Cold Day in Hell - :mark: this fucking rules. Great way to introduce Shamrock in his first match for the company. Has there been a better MMA style match in WWE history? They just lay the fuck into each other with some awesome stikes, and Shamrock looks like a BOSS with his submissions and awesome takedowns. The shot from Vader at the end of the match is incredible, but Shamrock no sells it to apply the Ankle Lock and win. Guess it made Shamrock look tough as fuck but eh, whatever. ****.

The Executioner Vs The Undertaker - It's Time - So this is an Armageddon rules match aka Texas Death Match (right?). Pin or make your opponent submit, then they have a LMS 10 count to try and continue the match. TERRY GORDY is the Executioner. We get a really fun brawl that becomes chaotic when Mankind shows up (and trips over :lmao). Undertaker DESTROYS the IYH set by launching Mankind through the "window" and then through the door, and the Executioner gets sent into some of the poles holding it all up lol. They end up in some water somewhere, then when they get back to the ring and Undertaker tombstones Executioner for the win, water pours out of his boots :lmao. Oh and Mankind gets sprayed with mace by a bunch of security guards who stick him in a straight jacket and take him away . I'll go ***1/4 for this one. Now onto Bret/Sid which main events this show! Loved it the last time I watched it.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Cyber Sunday?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cal making up shit.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No idea what you two are talking about :side:.

Sid/Bret was still pretty great. Perhaps not as much as I thought last time but still held up nicely. ***1/2 for it, down from my previous ***3/4 rating. Bret's work on Sid's back was really good, and Sid's power was used nicely. Wish they didn't focus so much on HBK on commentary through. Half the match was a split screen between the match and Shawn sat on commentary. Because apparently being able to HEAR HIM just wasn't enough lol. Bret botching was :lmao though because it doesn't happen too much . The botch was made even worse when they re-did the spot straight after to get it right :lmao.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Son of a bitch.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

RatedR10 said:


> Seriously, I would have booked this as a huge marketing attempt to get more subscribers to the network. Lesnar defends on EVERY PPV, but doesn't appear on TV and Heyman does his hype. What does Heyman say to explain this?
> 
> As the champion - Lesnar will appear when and where he wants. If the people want to see the WWE World champion, they can go subscribe to the WWE Network to see the WWE champion compete every month.
> 
> But no, WWE's business philosophy and marketing campaign for the network is to shove the price down viewer's throats instead and half-ass all their PPVs since "fans shouldn't have high expectations because of the price."


WWE is advertising a low price instead of advertising that they have a great product to sell you. 



RatedR10 said:


> Remember after WM30 & the Raw the night after how it seemed like everything was moving in the right direction?
> 
> Then, right back to the status quo and any sort of star building was dead. Especially Cesaro. What a mess that was.


I think they just booked Raw that way to appease the crowd. If they didn't do that there would have been a repeat of the post-WM 29 Raw and they didn't want that to happen.



#ROOT said:


> Continuing with my "watch some fun stuff because fuck current wwe":
> 
> Vader Vs The Undertaker - Canadian Stampede - Fun match, best one they had together, which is honestly disappointing because it still wasn't that great imo. Better than their RR encounter, but still not the kind of epic match you would expect from the two best "big men" of all time. Paul Bearer on the outside was fucking tremendous though. Every time he saw a camera focusing on him he'd point at Undertaker and just scream MURDERER! MURDERER! at him :lmao. Always impressive to see Undertaker tombstone someone the size of Vader (so just vader and henry I guess lol). ***1/2 for this one.
> 
> ...


That Vader/Shamrock match must have been awesome. I've seen shoot style matches from Vader before in Japan so I'm sure he an Shamrock would be able to do something similar. 

And I had always assumed that the Undertaker/Executioner match wouldn't be worth watching. I guess I was wrong about that.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Im still to check out the Vader/Shamrock cage match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brock said:


> Im still to check out the Vader/Shamrock cage match.


This is a thing that exists? When and where?

Edit: Ahhh, ok, tis from Japan. Just checked the Vader set listing for it lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> This is a thing that exists? When and where?


*Vader vs. Ken Shamrock (Cage Match) (Japan 9/28/97)*






It's on that Vader comp too.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Vader/Shamrock CDIH fucking rules. Gave that match ****1/4. Absolute badassery, smash mouth at its finest and one of those matches that made me think Shamrock really did have quite a lot of potential to him. I don't think he sucked, he got his job well done for the most part, but they really should've kept him and his matches to an accessible to wrestlers MMA style (I say that because not everyone can strike like Vader). Whenever he did that, he owned. Another example of that is the Lion's Den match w/Owen, which is great.

Cal, if you're watching old In Your House gems, check out the Rock/Mankind LMS match. And for shits and kicks, the Austin/Vince Cage match from the same show.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Only watching good IYH matches from shows I own, and I don't have St Valentine's Day Massacre, so screw that . I do have a Rock/Mankind match from CDIH I could watch though . I won't, but I could if I wanted to.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

How the hell was I supposed to know that? :side:

The CDIH match is solid too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well, if you looked on my wrestling view site, you'd see a page for my wrestling dvd/bluray collection and be able to tell what I own :side: .

Speaking of my sites, after a couple of days with internet problems, I finally got my weekly update online, wwr classic episode 9, and a video looking at my top 10 favourite episodes of my top 10 favourite tv shows (episode 1).


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Dammit, you're right... but at the same time I'm too lazy to go there anyway, so you're WRONG :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just watched the Vader/Shamrock cage from Japan. Got nothing on their WWF match. First half is boring and shitty, then the second half they really start to lay it in to each other and it's pretty darn sweet. :lmao at the cage though. Shamrock early on backs up and tries to lean on it and it almost falls over :lmao. Good to see VADER getting the win this time too.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I say thank fuck Vince buried Vader, that way we got the legendary AJPW run and all those classics with Misawa and Co. Not to mention he still made cartloads of money. 

But still, he deserved a WWF title reign, even if only for a week. Vader's championship credentials are completely insane, dude was a complete success everywhere but in WWF.

It's absolutely crazy and phenomenal that Vader held major titles in three different major feds in Japan - New Japan, UWFi and All Japan, as well as main eventing Tokyo Domes, Ryogokus, Budokans and Jingu Stadiums, and he was a star and world champ in both Germany and Mexico, the definition of a world champion.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Speaking of Vader, the episode of Boy Meets World with Vader, Jake The Snake and Brother Love is on. :mark:


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

not match related, but Dean Ambrose hating on the Attitude Era is great.



> I don't like my wrestling or entertainment in general to be too clean or predictable for me as a fan. When I say clean, I'm not talking about dirty jokes, middle fingers and stuff like that. I'm actually not even a big fan of that.
> 
> A lot of people talk about the attitude era being so great but a lot of it was terrible crap, sex jokes and over-the-top terrible bad comedy. It was Jerry Springer-like. They made a joke about a woman's breasts. Hilarious, but where's the wrestling? I look back on a lot of stuff now, and I'm like where's the wrestling? It's just a lot of crappy jokes.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> I say thank fuck Vince buried Vader, that way we got the legendary AJPW run and all those classics with Misawa and Co. Not to mention he still made cartloads of money.
> 
> But still, he deserved a WWF title reign, even if only for a week. Vader's championship credentials are completely insane, dude was a complete success everywhere but in WWF.
> 
> It's absolutely crazy and phenomenal that Vader held major titles in three different major feds in Japan - New Japan, UWFi and All Japan, as well as main eventing Tokyo Domes, Ryogokus, Budokans and Jingu Stadiums, and he was a star and world champ in both Germany and Mexico, the definition of a world champion.



Hook a brother up with some Vader AJPW recs?  I've got this sweet comp from King Zeppers of his UWFi work but I really haven't seen as much of his AJPW work. List like the 5-6 best matches he had in AJPW if you can.

The fact that Vader isn't in the WWE HoF is absolutely maddening to me. He is one of the very best wrestlers to have ever walked the face of the Earth, he's the best monster ever, one of the best heels in general, and was a champion and massive success just about everywhere he went, aside from WWE.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

RatedR10 said:


> not match related, but Dean Ambrose hating on the Attitude Era is great.


Pretty much sums up my feelings.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Hook a brother up with some Vader AJPW recs?  I've got this sweet comp from King Zeppers of his UWFi work but I really haven't seen as much of his AJPW work. List like the 5-6 best matches he had in AJPW if you can.
> 
> The fact that Vader isn't in the WWE HoF is absolutely maddening to me. He is one of the very best wrestlers to have ever walked the face of the Earth, he's the best monster ever, one of the best heels in general, and was a champion and massive success just about everywhere he went, aside from WWE.


Just go to ditch's AJ page, find the year 1998, ctrl+f "Vader" and go match by match, chronologically. He starts his AJ run by teaming with none other than HANSEN, before moving into main event scene. http://theditch.biz/chron.html

Just in case, type in "ajpw vader" on YT for alternate videos, possibly with better pic etc.

But before that, make sure you check Honda/Togo from DDT 11/1/30, the undisputed MOTD. It's on ditch's regular page.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> Just go to ditch's AJ page, find the year 1998, ctrl+f "Vader" and go match by match, chronologically. He starts his AJ run by teaming with none other than HANSEN, before moving into main event scene. http://theditch.biz/chron.html
> 
> Just in case, type in "ajpw vader" on YT for alternate videos, possibly with better pic etc.
> 
> But before that, make sure you check Honda/Togo from DDT 11/1/30, the undisputed MOTD. It's on ditch's regular page.



Ah, thank you very much. Honda/Togo 11/1/30? What kind of date is that :lmao. I'll look for it though. I appreciate the help bud.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So awesome to get Benoit vs Orton from Best of Seven series in HD. :mark: Just got it downloaded from XWT after WWE Network put it up and already done uploading the match to DM.



EDIT: Download link for anyone who wants it here.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> So awesome to get Benoit vs Orton from Best of Seven series in HD. :mark: Just got it downloaded from XWT after WWE Network put it up and already done uploading the match to DM.



That match has become one of my favorite 10-15 matches to watch. 


Just watched Vader vs Misawa 5/2/99....holy fuck is this a great match. These two were just trading massive moves on each other, Vader dropped Misawa on his head multiple times and hits one of the gnarliest Brainbusters you are ever gonna see.

I'm definitely starting from the beginning now and working my way through Vaders late 90s AJPW run. He looked better than ever here.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That Orton/Benoit match is fantastic. If Booker had never got injured (was that kayfabe or real?) we never would have had that little series.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Saw that SD on XWT last night from the NETWORK. Hope WWE put all of SD 06 online :mark:.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Ah, thank you very much. Honda/Togo 11/1/30? What kind of date is that :lmao. I'll look for it though. I appreciate the help bud.


30th Jan 2011  Need to watch that match myself after i saw it pimped numerous times online. Lemme know if you can't find it and ill up it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Orton/Benoit Best of 7 is probably a top 10 match in Orton's and maybe even Benoit's careers. It is THAT good imo. I have it at ****1/2 because screw you it's a Goddamn classic. Their No Holds Barred match is also incredible, but this is on a whole another level. Is it just me or did Benoit have immaculate chemistry w/Orton?


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Orton and Benoit had such an amazing chemistry together, one day I'm gonna check their complete rivalry.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Ah, thank you very much. Honda/Togo 11/1/30? What kind of date is that :lmao. I'll look for it though. I appreciate the help bud.





Brock said:


> 30th Jan 2011  Need to watch that match myself after i saw it pimped numerous times online. Lemme know if you can't find it and ill up it.


http://theditch.us/010-present.html

2011/1/30 (DDT Sweet Dreams), it's a minimalistic masterpiece.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It's the 15th Anniversary of Smackdown!!! And the first time I've actually watched Smackdown in about 2 months now. Being such a "big" show I decided to watch it and write some random shite about it .

Who the fuck is Tom Phillips? Has he been announcing Smackdown for long now? LOL.

It's Stephanie McFapFap! The first ever GM of Smackdown! She's interrupted by BIG JOHNNY!!! BIG JOHHNY IS BACK! BAH GAWD BUSINESS IS ABOUT TO PICK UP!!!

:lmao there is actually a PEOPLE POWER chant going :lmao. So Big Johnny is now the FORMER executive vice president of talent relations and the FORMER general manager of both Raw and Smackdown. So what the fuck is his job now?!?! :lmao

TEDDY LONG~! Didn't he get released? :lmao at JBL dancing :lmao. Fuck me Teddy gots a HUGE pop. He was GM of SD for SIX YEARS. And boy was he dull as shit for those 6 years lol.

Awwww, poor Teddy. Nobody wants to feel him.

:lmao they are trying to OUT TAG TEAM MATCH each other :lmao. I don't think Big Johhny can win this.

A 15 man tag team match? Wouldn't that be a handicap match?

Ahhhh, each team has 7 men and a midget. Makes sense now. No seriously, it DOES.

:lmao at everyone's face in the ring when Adam Rose shows up :lmao. Pretty much my reaction every time I see the guy too. It's like "the fuck is he? why is he employed?".

What's a party without Adam Rose? Ooooo I know this!!! Is it "A GOOD PARTY"? 

Stephanie doesn't seem to care for Rose either, and books him in a match with KANE then gets the truck to play Rose's music and she starts dancing :lmao. FAP.

:lmao all the former SD GM's are dancing :lmao. NOBODY LIKES ADAM ROSE :lmao.

OLD SMACKDOWN THEME SONG :mark:. I miss the original one. A clip of the first SD. HBK SUPERKICKS THE ROCK DURING A PEOPLE'S ELBOW AND COSTS ROCK A CHANCE AT THE WWF TITLE :mark:. That's one of my favourite SD monents for sure . Always awesome to see Rock getting screwed out of a match.

Kane isn't a cheeseburger, a bunny, a lemon or a rosebud. Glad we have that cleared up. Turns out he a demon party pooper. Sounds like the plot of an episode for Supernatural.

:lmao Kane squashes him and gives him his first loss. Then he goes back for the bunny :lmao. Rosebuds keep running into the ring to take chokeslams to save the bunny. He must be someone really important .

Man, replaying Cena's debut on SD really shows that WWE had a TON of faith in him from the start. Competitive match with ANGLE to start with, then got shown RESPECT by Undertaker, who was the Undisputed Champion at the time and a HEEL whose gimmick was all about people not respecting him.

AJ LEE!!! :mark: Bah, she's against that Fox women. Paige is hugging AJ's diva's championship like it's a child. Just like AJ does.

Did AJ like... get thinner? Must be all that running with Punk. If she keeps it up she'll end up like Bryan from Family Guy the other week :|. AJ wins in like 1 minute.

Time for another SD moment and... it's a compilation of big spots. Glad they didn't dedicate one moment to JUST the ring breaking moment.

Seth Rollins out for a match! And his opponent is Kofi. Damn. So is Kofi in a stable now with Big E and... that other dude or not? Are they just doing it at live events or something lol? The fuck is going on? I'm sure I read a fucking interview with Kofi like 2 days ago and he talked about the stable, so it must be a thing. 

So Kofi still absolutely sucks. Not surprising. What a 15th Anniversary show so far. Basically 3 squash matches in a row. Nothing screams IMPORTANT like 3 completely unimportant throwaway squash matches!!!

Remember when Swagger cashed in MITB and won the WHC?

Alright, time for Rusev Vs Ziggler. Because... Rusev is pissed at The Rock? Seems like this will be another utterly pointless match tbh lol. But since Ziggler is involved I guess we can expect a big finishing stretch for no real reason.

Damn, Lana has some great legs.

So Rock came out on Raw and embarrassed Rusev. This is the 15th Anniversary of Smackdown, which is "The Rock's Show" according to Rock. Russev is in a match. So... we can expect another Rock appearance, right? Would make sense, right? Guess I'll just have to wait and see.

Match was really fun. Rusev seems really good on offence (I rarely watch his matches so I don't know how good he usually is or isn't lol), and with someone like Ziggler to bump for him, the fun factor of the match increased by ten fold. The finish was pretty great. Rusev looked like a BEAST.

Alright, Lana with the mic in her hand. She'll cut some promo, Rock will come out and we'll have ourselves another fight with Rock standing tall and wishing SD a happy 15th Anniversary or whatever.

Nope. No Rock because that would actually make a little sense . Not that I'm bothered because you know, Rock is a useless fuck and he sucks big time .

:lmao wait, what? They announce straight after the match that THE ROCK AND THE AUTHORITY is gonna be together celebrating? Oh man.

PRICE CHECK ON JACKASS.

:lmao the celebrating for SD is actually a backstage segment that happened AFTER RAW :lmao. They half tease a WM match between the two. Urgh. God no.

Fuck me that segment goes on FAR too long. And it's shit. They just bitch at each other like kids.

A SD cake. Was just about to say "how long before it goes in someone's face?" and then JBL shoved it in that commentator I don't know's face. Now I want cake.

Urgh, Booker T. He's not gonna get on commentary is he? Oh god he is. Is this a 15th Anniversary Show? Because it sure as fuck doesn't in any way feel like it is. 

Main event time already? I guess SD not being a never ending 3 hour show goes much faster than Raw lol.

TEAM TEDDY VS TEAM JOHHNY. Match decides who is the greatest GM in SD history. Not sure how they can do that without having like, actual good GM's competing...

Damn, this match is jobberiffic. Only like 4 people who actually mean anything. Good old WWE stacking the card for an important Smackdown as usual...

WE WANT MIZDOW chant, and a pop when he tags in :lmao. Titus tags in and gets booed, and then fuck me he acts like he can't be fucked to be there. I've put more effort into watching a Rock promo than he's putting in now.

CESARO~! I miss when Cesaro was actually a rising star .

Oh COME ON. Cesaro tags in, hits one move and then they go to a break and when we come back Heath Slater is in the ring instead. Bullshit.

Giant shmoz with everyone flying around and whatnot, and then a "take turns at hitting signature moves" thing. Mizdow takes the fall and Teddy is the best GM in SD history apparently. I hope Brock Lesnar destroys Teddy for this. PAUL HEYMAN IS GOAT.

Match was... meh, nothing special whatsoever tbh. Not even that fun when it went all chaotic. Commentary was fecking awful too. Just all of them throwing out random catchphrases the entire time.

Urgh, Miz TV time. At least Ambrose is going to be on it.

Oh god, Cena/Ambrose is a fucking POLL match at HIAC? I guess they didn't want Ambrose to actually BEAT Cena. Fuckers. I blame Russo.

:lmao my dog was sat on my bed while I've been watching this. Cena's music hits and he fucked off :lmao. My dog knows what's what with wrestling. Amma go get him a treat for that. GOOD BOY.

Did Cena seriously bring out 2 balls with him in preparation of him talking about Ambrose having balls in his promo?

Well Ambrose gave us the "Nope" meme, and now he's just given us a "Yep" meme. Thanks.

Miz gets killed. Cena hits the AA on Dean. And we end the 15th Anniversary with Cena sitting in a chair like a king. *sigh*

This felt like any other B show edition of Smackdown.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cal telling it like it is regarding the Rock/HHH segment.  Can't see them having a match TBH, they did seem to bring up WM32 more though lol, goddamn get WM31 right first.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Is it bad that I enjoyed and laughed a lot at the HHH/Rock segment? And also enjoyed Rock's return on RAW? I enjoy The Rock, what can I say.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yes.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)




----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It was about as enjoyable as Taker/Lesnar this year 8*D.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Bubz said:


> Is it bad that I enjoyed and laughed a lot at the HHH/Rock segment? And also enjoyed Rock's return on RAW?
















> I enjoy The Rock, what can I say.


Sorry, would be a start.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Nothing wrong with enjoying The Rock.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

So yeah I really liked Rusev vs Ziggler from the latest Smackdown. Rusev looked like such a beast, and Ziggler bumping around like he does made it a lot of fun.

Also liked Rollins/Kofi for a squash match. Fun seeing Kofi get killed from the opening bell. Rollins looked vicious as fuck and his ringwork as a heel is so good while being so different from his ringwork as a face. Great to see.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rock vs Austin thread going on.  One reason why i hate wrestling forum sometimes is because of this fucking shit.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

#ROOT said:


> Saw that SD on XWT last night from the NETWORK. Hope WWE put all of SD 06 online :mark:.


Wouldn't get my hopes up yet. They only put this and a few other episodes up because it was Smackdown 15 week. Either way, this has restored my faith in the Network for the near future.



Brock said:


> Rock vs Austin thread going on.  One reason why i hate wrestling forum sometimes is because of this fucking shit.


You can just, y'know, avoid them?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Will do lol.  Ill just return to Alien: Isolation.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Just watched it, and yes, that Levesque/Johnson segment was a lot of fun.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Thank goodness Undertaker/Hogan from Judgment Day is as fun as I remember it being. RAW in 2002 so far has really been awful outside of Undertaker carrying everything. One thing that never made sense to me was how forced the Flair/Austin dynamic felt. We were supposed to hate Flair for doing his job, but Flair at this point was too lovable to truly hate. As a result, the Austin/Flair feud felt so flat because those two should be working side-by-side instead of fighting each other. When did Heyman take control of Smackdown? The year started off poorly for Smackdown because it was a show with no storyline progression, but immediately once the brand split started, it became really fun. Could it be that the brand split played just as much a factor as Heyman's booking strategy?

The Across the Nation theme song is the best.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Wonder if WM 32 will be the sendoff for Rock, HHH and Taker all in one show. HHH/Rock Cena/Taker and hell if he is still on board and if they don't pull the trigger at the Rumble this year Bryan/Lesnar. They wanna draw in 100,000 in Jerry World at 32, that would certainly give them the hand to do so if the cards are played correctly I'd imagine. Sure, Taker is a complete wildcard at this point, but the guy recently said "never say never" and while he looked like a complete shell of himself at Mania 30 and suffered what I have heard could be if he wrestled again a concussion that would risk brain damage, if that isn't true, the guy looks to be in shape and ran a marathon. Sting & Cena are worlds different working styles then Lesnar. I'd think while Taker adheres to the old mentality of "you go out on your back", I'd think Taker would want to go out in a solid match that he isn't on dream street for. Just a suggesstion to load that Mania 32 card.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched Benoit/Scorpio from Superbrawl 1993. Excellent match, I need to watch a few more Scorpio matches tbh.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Scorpio/Callihan!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just got reminded by rep i need to watch Scorpio/Jericho. Don't think ive seen it, ive watched the Heatwave three-way that they are in though, and i love that.

This too i may watch in a bit: Chris Benoit & Bobby Eaton vs. Marcus Bagwell & 2 Cold Scorpio (Slamboree 5/23/93)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Found a freeleech torrent to finish the rest of Raw 1998. :mark: Hopefully firedrive is back to working again by the time I reach 1999 because I cba downloading the rest of AE.

Watched a couple of SD segments. Opening segment was entertaining and Stephanie looks hotter every single time. Rock/HHH segment was fun but I'm not sure how I feel about another match with these two. Would rather Rock takes on somebody he hasn't wrestled a million times before. Still better than Rock/Reigns, though.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bubba Ray Dudley and Jazz had a hardcore match once. During the match, Bubba starts dancing with Jazz and JR calls him Fandango.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> Rock vs Austin thread going on.  One reason why i hate wrestling forum sometimes is because of this fucking shit.



It's unbelievable to me how many idiots there are on this forum. The only people who argue who the bigger star is between Rock and Austin are people who were too young to witness it live. Don't get me wrong, Rock was HUGE in his prime, in the year 2000 he was O-V-E-R, you can't deny that. But he wasn't as big as Austin. It's just a fact. Steve Austin and "Austin 3:16" is the biggest phenomenon ever in wrestling that I've witnessed. You don't see any other wrestler have entire arenas filled with everyone wearing the same black Austin shirt. Add in the fact that Vince McMahon has gone on record multiple times to say Austin is the biggest star ever, and I don't see why we have to have a thread every week were moronic Austin and Rock marks argue it out. The owner of the freaking company, who has no reason to favor Austin over Rock, especially since Rock still works for him, said Austin is the biggest name he's ever witnessed. The guy who helped launch Hulkamania and helped Rock get his foot in the door in Hollywood, the guy who had Austin walk out of his company, still says Austin is the man. If that doesn't settle it for you, I don't know what ever will. I just don't see the purpose of arguing about something like "who is the bigger star" every week. I guess because they can't argue who was the better wrestler, as that results in a landslide victory for Steve.

If you are talking how good they were as wrestlers, THEN it's really no comparison. Austin blows Rock out of the water in every single way when it comes to in ring performance, promos, and character work. Rock could be really great in the ring, but Austin in his prime was transcendent.


Okay now I'll never post on this again, I just had to get that off my chest and I refuse to join in on the mark wars.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

You are the same as me, you just have to say something first.

I did mean iv'e seen the Heatwave _Four Way_ before. Think ill dig out the Chris Jericho vs. 2 Cold Scorpio (ECW 8/3/96)match then, i presume this is the one that is regarded. 

This match looks good on paper too: Eddy Guerrero vs. Too Cold Scorpio (4/8/95)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Chris Jericho has gone on record to say that he hated that Heatwave Four Way and I think also the match with Scorpio. I happen to love both, but I wouldn't use either match to point out how good Scorpio (or Jericho) can be. Zep, make sure to watch the Windham/Scorpio match. One of those special underdog face vs. main event heel matches. That Eddy match rules too. I think there was a Sabu match in 96 that I had at around *****1/2*.

Those Austin/Rock debates annoy me because the other side should not be put down in order to prove a point. Why do mark wars have to descend to that? I wonder if the smarks in Japan argue between Kobashi and Misawa. With that said, there is some truth to the idea that Austin was positioned to be above Rock. I can't think of a single moment in the company's time where both Rock and Austin were both active and Austin wasn't above Rock. Even when Rock main evented PPVs such as No Mercy 2000, No Way Out 2001, and Summerslam 2001, the main feud at the time was whatever Austin was doing. It's a really interesting dynamic to think about as I watch William Regal have a tea party with Hulk Hogan.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Chris Jericho has gone on record to say that he hated that Heatwave Four Way and I think also the match with Scorpio. I happen to love both, but I wouldn't use either match to point out how good Scorpio (or Jericho) can be. Zep, make sure to watch the Windham/Scorpio match. One of those special underdog face vs. main event heel matches. That Eddy match rules too. I think there was a Sabu match in 96 that I had at around *****1/2*.
> 
> Those Austin/Rock debates annoy me because the other side should not be put down in order to prove a point. Why do mark wars have to descend to that? I wonder if the smarks in Japan argue between Kobashi and Misawa. With that said, there is some truth to the idea that Austin was positioned to be above Rock. I can't think of a single moment in the company's time where both Rock and Austin were both active and Austin wasn't above Rock. Even when Rock main evented PPVs such as No Mercy 2000, No Way Out 2001, and Summerslam 2001, the main feud at the time was whatever Austin was doing. It's a really interesting dynamic to think about as I watch William Regal have a tea party with Hulk Hogan.


 Thanks. I presume it it these two:

Barry Windham vs. Too Cold Scorpio (Clash 23; 6/16/93)
Too Cold Scorpio vs. Sabu (2/17/96)


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Chismo said:


> Just watched it, and yes, that Levesque/Johnson segment was a lot of fun.


Yeah I thought so too.

Austin/Rock debates are the worst thing about this forum I think.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Bubz said:


> Yeah I thought so too.
> 
> Austin/Rock debates are the worst thing about this forum I think.



Austin/Rock debates ARE the dirt worst, but the one thing that annoys me more than those mindless, endless debates is when people have the "OMFG MY FAVORITE WRESTLER JUST LOST A MATCH HES TOTALLY BURRIED OMG OMG WHAT AM I EVER GOING TO DO?!?!" Type threads. Those take the cake, for me.

Funnyfaces: to answer you're question, yes I think Japanese fans have "Misawa, Kawada, or Kobashi: who was the best?!?!" Arguments. It's only natural. However I like to think they probably do it a lot more intelligently over there. Hell they probably debate who was the best gaijin, Hansen, Vader, Funk, or Williams?, too.

You have a Sabu match rated at ****1/2? For real? I don't hate on him as much as others do but I can honestly say I've never seen a match of his that's blown me away or made me like his work. Any idea which match it was?


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> You have a Sabu match rated at ****1/2? For real? I don't hate on him as much as others do but I can honestly say I've never seen a match of his that's blown me away or made me like his work. Any idea which match it was?


Not ****1/2 but there was a Sabu/Tracy Smothers/CM Punk match from IWA-MS in 2001 that is like ****+ and Sabu is a fucking large part of why.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

We wouldn't have those shitty thread problems if the damn wwe section mods got off their arses and DID SOMETHING!!! 

I blame Cody.

Tonight, I feel like watching something great. Spectacular even. Now, where is that disc... ahhh, there you are . Are you ready? I know I am!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Craig said:


> Not ****1/2 but there was a Sabu/Tracy Smothers/CM Punk match from IWA-MS in 2001 that is like ****+ and Sabu is a fucking large part of why.


YT link if anyone is interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CCtddtuO68
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp9jidhq5F4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnRC23JXNwk


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

Brock said:


> YT link if anyone is interested:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CCtddtuO68
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp9jidhq5F4
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnRC23JXNwk


Christ I wasn't aware that was on youtube, not seen it in about 6 years... and if there's one thing I know 16 year old me was an idiot. Sorry if anyone delves in and its pish.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It was about as enjoyable as Taker/Lesnar this year 8*D.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> It's unbelievable to me how many idiots there are on this forum. The only people who argue who the bigger star is between Rock and Austin are people who were too young to witness it live. Don't get me wrong, Rock was HUGE in his prime, in the year 2000 he was O-V-E-R, you can't deny that. But he wasn't as big as Austin. It's just a fact. Steve Austin and "Austin 3:16" is the biggest phenomenon ever in wrestling that I've witnessed. You don't see any other wrestler have entire arenas filled with everyone wearing the same black Austin shirt. Add in the fact that Vince McMahon has gone on record multiple times to say Austin is the biggest star ever, and I don't see why we have to have a thread every week were moronic Austin and Rock marks argue it out. The owner of the freaking company, who has no reason to favor Austin over Rock, especially since Rock still works for him, said Austin is the biggest name he's ever witnessed. The guy who helped launch Hulkamania and helped Rock get his foot in the door in Hollywood, the guy who had Austin walk out of his company, still says Austin is the man. If that doesn't settle it for you, I don't know what ever will. I just don't see the purpose of arguing about something like "who is the bigger star" every week. I guess because they can't argue who was the better wrestler, as that results in a landslide victory for Steve.
> 
> If you are talking how good they were as wrestlers, THEN it's really no comparison. Austin blows Rock out of the water in every single way when it comes to in ring performance, promos, and character work. Rock could be really great in the ring, but Austin in his prime was transcendent.
> 
> ...



Most of that is posters showing their age, considering Hogan is obviously the biggest star ever 

But really, is it any worse than "Who is the coolest heel of all time" and the only poll options are Razor, Rock, and Flair - and even then, Razor crushes FLAIR in the results. I just can't...



Chismo said:


> Just watched it, and yes, that Levesque/Johnson segment was a lot of fun.


Smiled so wide it knocked my wrestling monocle out of place


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Brock said:


> I need to watch a few more Scorpio matches tbh.


No, you need to watch MOTD Honda/Togo first, and then upload it for everyone to see. :arn2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> It was about as enjoyable as Taker/Lesnar this year 8*D.


COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT :side: 

In all seriousness, wanna know if people around here are (still) high on ol' HBK/Diesel from GFBE. I remember that match as Nash's greatest performance ever and one of HBK's best too, but I watched it way too long ago to remember if it holds up (and I'm too lazy to go and watch it atm :side. Do you guys still think good of it?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't care much for HBK/Diesel GFBE match. Last time I watched it was like, 4 years ago or so for the WWF/E Poll, and I didn't like it too much. Enough to rate it ***1/4 I believe, but I used to have it around a full * higher. Typical HBK no selling the entire match so he can hit his signature stuff. Would be fine if he continued to at least sell the effects of everything while making a comeback but he simply doesn't.

Currently watching another HBK title match brawl on PPV from 1996. Vs Mankind at Mind Games :mark:. Good god it's still bloody awesome and I'm only half way into it :mark:.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

This is a semi-final match from the Ted Petty Invitational. Having barely survived the beatings from Hero on Night 1 and Kingston earlier that night, it seemed a foregone conclusion that Scorpio would take this. As impressive as Too Cold was in 2008, this is equally great because of the young-upstart Callihan. Superb match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chismo said:


> No, you need to watch MOTD Honda/Togo first, and then upload it for everyone to see. :arn2


I will when i dig my disc out. 



Rah said:


> This is a semi-final match from the Ted Petty Invitational. Having barely survived the beatings from Hero on Night 1 and Kingston earlier that night, it seemed a foregone conclusion that Scorpio would take this. As impressive as Too Cold was in 2008, this is equally great because of the young-upstart Callihan. Superb match.


Thanks for that, another one to put on my list. In the meantime:

*Stan Hansen v Leon White (went onto become....Vader) (AWA 03.13.1986)*

x27r0gn


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

JustJoel said:


> Most of that is posters showing their age, considering Hogan is obviously the biggest star ever
> 
> But really, is it any worse than "Who is the coolest heel of all time" and the only poll options are Razor, Rock, and Flair - and even then, Razor crushes FLAIR in the results. I just can't...
> 
> ...


Ugh it drives me absolutely nuts when WWE documentaries and other wrestling fans try to paint Razor Ramon as the first "cool heel". Um, Ric Flair in 1986, anyone? Flair and the 4 Horsemen were the very definition of "cool heels". Hell in 1989 when Flair was having that classic rivalry with Steamboat, WCW was having a problem getting Steamboat cheered and Flair boo'd because fans thought Flair was so cool and Steamboat was kinda the dorky family man wearing karate gear. I'm not sure if Flair was even the first cool heel, as I'm obviously not old enough to remember the days of Buddy Rogers or any other guys from the 60s, and 70s. Flair came before Scott Hall in the cool heel department, that's all I know.



ATF said:


> COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT :side:
> 
> In all seriousness, wanna know if people around here are (still) high on ol' HBK/Diesel from GFBE. I remember that match as Nash's greatest performance ever and one of HBK's best too, but I watched it way too long ago to remember if it holds up (and I'm too lazy to go and watch it atm :side. Do you guys still think good of it?


I REALLY dig that Diesel/Razor match. Outside of the SVS and RR bouts with Bret, it's probably Diesel's best work ever. Cal has a point about Shawn but for whatever reason it just didn't bother me in that particular match. I think I have it at like ****1/4. Check it out for yourself I'm betting you'll like it knowing a little about your personal tastes .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

IIRC the transition to HBK's comeback was a POWERBOMB THROUGH A TABLE. TO HBK. Somehow after he took that he was able to make his comeback. :|


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> IIRC the transition to HBK's comeback was a POWERBOMB THROUGH A TABLE. TO HBK. Somehow after he took that he was able to make his comeback. :|


Was it? I thought I remember a fire extinguisher being used in Shawn's comeback...you could very well be right though.

If you are right, that's as bad as the Masato Tanaka/Mike Awesome match I watched, where there is a transition for Tanaka to get in offense by Awesome delivering two skull crushing chair shots to Tanaka's head, which causes Tanaka to hulk up and start wailing away on Awesome.:stupid:

If that's the case and that's how Tanaka works, I wonder if he forgoes a nice hot cup of coffee in the morning and instead just smashes himself in the face with a chair a few times to wake himself up and start the day fresh and reinvigorated :lmao


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Sabu v. Stevie Richards 1/5/96 is fucking awesome.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Sabu/Parka from MLW was awesome as well.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh yeah btw HBK/Mankind Mind Games match like, totally held up. Just tremendous stuff. Foley was awesome. When he was about to be superkicked, he saw it coming and literally ran out of the ring and sat on the floor rocking back and forth until Bearer came around and handed him the urn, which Foley proceeded to hug until he felt better and could continue the match :lmao.

HBK going after Mankind's leg was good, he did well with his offence, but again it was Mankind stealing the show from HBK with his selling of the leg, and his efforts to get the feeling back :mark:. 

Then the transition from leg work to hand work was :mark:. HBK had a chair, Foley tried to deck him, so HBK put the chair up to block it and BAM, there goes Foley's Mandible Claw hand and Shawn is smart enough to take full advantage.

Oh and :lmao at the tribute to the HBK/Vader SS bitch fest too :lmao. Surprised HBK went along with it tbh .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I like Masato Tanaka, but his gimmick throughout his career is that he wrestles like a dumbass. There's a match he has with Hayabusa where he and Hayabusa trade finishers from the beginning of the match to the end. I dare anyone to watch it and like it:


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Ugh it drives me absolutely nuts when WWE documentaries and other wrestling fans try to paint Razor Ramon as the first "cool heel". Um, Ric Flair in 1986, anyone? Flair and the 4 Horsemen were the very definition of "cool heels". Hell in 1989 when Flair was having that classic rivalry with Steamboat, WCW was having a problem getting Steamboat cheered and Flair boo'd because fans thought Flair was so cool and Steamboat was kinda the dorky family man wearing karate gear. I'm not sure if Flair was even the first cool heel, as I'm obviously not old enough to remember the days of Buddy Rogers or any other guys from the 60s, and 70s. Flair came before Scott Hall in the cool heel department, that's all I know.
> 
> 
> 
> I REALLY dig that Diesel/Razor match. Outside of the SVS and RR bouts with Bret, it's probably Diesel's best work ever. Cal has a point about Shawn but for whatever reason it just didn't bother me in that particular match. I think I have it at like ****1/4. Check it out for yourself I'm betting you'll like it knowing a little about your personal tastes .


I think it was a Clash of the Champions that I watched during the Steamboat/Flair feud and it took place in Philadelphia. Steamboat was getting booed pretty badly because he was there preaching to the Philly crowd that he stood for wholesome family values or something absurd like that.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

TaylorFitz said:


> I think it was a Clash of the Champions that I watched during the Steamboat/Flair feud and it took place in Philadelphia. Steamboat was getting booed pretty badly because he was there preaching to the Philly crowd that he stood for wholesome family values or something absurd like that.


Could that have been the one with the Steamboat/Funk match? Cause the only COTC with a Steamboat/Flair match was the classic they had in New Orleans.

I love that Cal is going back and watching all these classic matches and popping in to let us know "hey guys just in case you forgot, HBK/Mankind, HBK/Taker, Flair/Windham, and Hart/Austin/Vader/Taker totally rule the earth!" Sometimes you just gotta go back and enjoy the classics, they are called classics for a reason, and that reason is they never get old, no matter how often you watch them. I've seen HBK/Mankind literally 20 times and I could go for 21 right now. It's that perfect. Not a single thing is wrong with it, Foley turns in a performance for the ages filled with insanity, brutality, and nuance, and he forces HBK to raise his game to a level we hadn't seen him reach at that point. I have it as the 5th best match ever in WWE history, behind only Bret/Austin WM 13, HBK/Taker HiaC, Austin/Angle SS 01, and Eddie/JBL JD 04'. It really is the bees knees.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't love that Cal is going back and watching matches we already know he likes. He should go back and watch Vengeance 2007. Was it Vengeance 2007 that he never finished? Or was it Night of Champions?

I remember that Clash. Flair and Steamboat did not wrestle each other in that Clash if you're wondering, cjack. They had a promo together and the crowd shat on Steamboat while Ric Flair made hilarious jokes about women. Steamboat wrestled a squash match against some jobber. But to get to that bigger question about "cool heels", I agree with how the WWE foolishly portrays Razor as being the first of that kind. I mean the WWE had one of the iconic heels of that kind in Superstar Billy Graham, and he never gets promoted as such (or promoted at all). Granted, Superstar Billy Graham sucked, but he was most definitely "cool" before Razor was Razor.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Vengeance and Night of Champions were the same thing in 2007.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cal needs to toughen up and finish the damn show. I know that it's one of the most boring, bland and tragic shows ever, but once you start, you might as well finish it.

I'd compare that PPV to some of the shit in recent years where the show seems to be serve no purpose and is just boring, making you wanna just give up on wrestling. Admittedly, the Benoit circumstances surrounding it are a big reason why, but the card and the build-up does it no favors either.

So now I got this awesome torrent for 1998 downloaded I can continue where I left off after firedrive crashed. Raw after SummerSlam was just bleh. Undertaker and Kane are starting to tease being McMahon's puppets and Rock sort of turned face after D'Lo ran away after Rock saved him from BOD. Austin wasn't even on the show.

Good to find freelech torrents for the rest of the years in case I have to resort to this.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

While we are talking Sabu matches, not sure whether or not this is good (certainly not by Liger's all time standards), but this match features everything from Liger completely poking fun at Sabu's schtick, Sabu undershoting a flip and damn near giving himself a concussion, Liger working Sabu's eyes, Sabu's botching tendencies rubbing off on Liger and more in a span of a little more than ten minutes. 



As for legitimately good Sabu matches, IDK his entire cat. or really even must of it, as his telegraphed style isn't my cup of tea whatsoever and not to mention he can hardly even execute his own style, but the Taz/Sabu payoff I enjoyed and I like some of RVD/Sabu/Alfonso's run when against the eliminators and especially enjoyed a match with RVD/Sabu vs Hayabusa and Shinzaki that is legitimately good. (fun fact: Taker wrestled a match in 97 in Japan vs Shinzaki)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Watched Liger/Sabu in full because I had to see the whole thing at least once after years of seeing the clips in Botchamania. Thought it started off as a perfectly good match. Worst thing about it was Sabu working too tame after bleeding and having insults thrown at him. Sabu being too tame might sound like a weird criticism. Though, yeah, he stuck on an armbar and other holds randomly for nothing and ruined Liger's cool shit. Liger tries to bring fire back to the match by raking Sabu's laceration but Sabu keeps going for restholds. Can't believe Sabu of all people is slowing a match down with unneeded restholds. He finally gives that shit up and holy shit the table spot was insane. I'm not going to call it anything remotely close to a botch because it looked like Liger took as much damage as a wrestler should from a spot like that, but Sabu lands back-head-first onto the floor after bouncing off of Liger. Wouldn't be surprised if he lost half a dozen teeth from that. Wouldn't be surprised if he lost a kidney from that fucking apron suplex thing. Jesus. I didn't think that was much of a botch either. Honestly give the latter half of this better selling (all this shit was happening and they barely seemed bothered by it), remove Sabu falling off of the top rope and kicking out of the finish pin lmao), and give more heat to the big spots and I'd easily call it a good match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So yeah, yesterday I asked everyone if HBK/Diesel GFBE is a match they still think holds up, so that my hopes for that match aren't wrecklessly abandoned (there's always gotta be dat different opinion guy tho - GODDAMMIT CAL :side. Needless to say that I fought my lazyness, stopped playing Psychonauts (THIS GAME IS SO FUCKING AMAZING) and actually watched the match.

It still rules.

Don't think it's Nash's greatest performance anymore (only second to the classic at SVS '95 against Bret Hart), but it's still 2nd at that. A terrific douchebag display, blending the art of being a dick w/his sheer size and power seamlessly. To which HBK sold well and made look like a true threat just as well (for the most part), allowing for one of the best big guy vs. small guy matches in the company's history. But, regardless, Diesel's back work was excellent, and actually played to his finisher to it's not like it didn't make any sense - and of course him ripping Mad Dog Vachon's leg was a brilliant dick move; Shawn made Diesel look like a vicious beast in great deal of it all; the match felt like a fight as it should've. 

I don't understand the complaining for HBK's comeback after the table spot, by the way. Diesel Jackniffed HBK through a table, so that he defeated HBK without even pinning him, thus humilliating him. But HBK won't give up, and he'll crawl until the very end to retain. And it's not like Shawn just pulled nonsense out there and completely no-sold. No, he did sell the effects of the table, w/wobbly legs, crawling to the mat and whatnot. He had about enough time to recover when he started making his comeback. Don't see why it's so terrible. 

Of course though, there were the obvious issues. HBK selling his back. Why oh why do these guys ALWAYS insist in having HBK try to sell his back? And the ending w/Shawn using Vachon's leg just felt... wrong. Like, seeing a douchebag heel like Diesel using the leg makes perfect sense. But... why would symphatethic babyface Shawn Michaels do the same? It's not like he was an anti-hero style babyface alas Stone Cold Steve Austin or Dean Ambrose in that he does whatever the fuck he wants to and it'll still mostly make sense given the characters. In that instance, it really didn't and it seriously bothered me.

But those are just my criticisms. This is an awesome, awesome match anyway. ****1/4 for it. Cal can be Cal somewhere else :side:. He needs to finish Vengeance btw. Edge/Batista is really good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wouldn't it be crazy if I revealed I had actually finished Vengeance NOC 2007? And watched another FOUR 07 PPV's already? 






































Yes. It would be crazy.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

RE GFBE: I agree with Cal, tbh


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rah said:


> RE GFBE: I agree with Cal, tbh


Good man .

TT 04 ramblings posted on my BLOG~! btw .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

You're both shitbags that match is fantastic.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Boooooo Yeah1993 Boooooo.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

BOOOOOO CAL BOOOOOO GFBE is possibly one of IYH's top tier matches ever BOOOOOOOOOOO CAL.

Now I feel like watching one of the low tier Taker/Mankind's (not counting Boiler Room Brawl). Like Survivor Series or Buried Alive ... that is, if I'm not playing Psychonauts or watching KRISPIN WAH w/my girlfriend instead 8*D.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Happy now?










*Vengeance Night of Champions*

Time to kick off my 2007 PPV Rambles with the PPV that has 2 names! Because... I dunno.

Barry Windham and Mike Rotunda (announced as Rotundo... make up your mind which name you wanna give him lol) are in the front row for the show :mark:.


*The Hardy Boys Vs Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch - World Tag Team Championship Match*

Alright, this is a good way to start off the show! At least... I hope! 

:lmao Murdoch hits a swinging neckbreaker on Jeff... who fails to turn over until like the last second .

The Hardy Boys aren't in a good mood tonight. They refuse to shake hands and are constantly on the attack. Murdoch is sick of this disrespect and SLAPS Matt, then RUNS AWAY :lmao. MURDOCH RUNS FROM MATT :lmao. Then he gets back in the ring and tags out straight away .

Murdoch has some awesome faces. WWE should re-hire him and stick him with the Wyatt Family :mark:.

How tag comes kinda out of nowhere, straight into a short finishing stretch with Cade and Murdoch winning. Huh. Disappointing tbh. Didn't get much time to develop into anything special .

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*Chavo Guerrero Vs Jimmy Wang Yang - WWE Cruiserweight Championship Match*

For some reason Dean Malenko is watching on a monitor backstage...

Fuck this match. Fuck it and everything about it. I HATE this match. Might end up being my least favourite match of ALL TIME. And why?

Because Chavo...

Because Chavo was...

Hold on, this might take some time...

I FUCKING HATE THIS MATCH because Chavo was actually...

He actually...

Chavo was...

CHAVO GUERRERO JR ACTUALLY IMPRESSED ME AND WAS GREAT IN THIS MATCH.

BRB, need a shower. I haven't felt this dirty since ever. Sorry, I can't bring myself to actually talk about it though. SO DIRTY...

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


:lmao I forgot this PPV was during the VINCE MCMAHON GOT BLOWN UP AND DIED angle :lmao. HEY EVERYONE, OUR CHAIRMAN BLEW UP AND DIED ON LIVE TV... SO LET'S CONTINUE TO SHOW THE FOOTAGE EVERY WEEK!!! :lmao


*CM Punk Vs Johnny Nitro - ECW Championship Match*

So we go from the storyline of Vince dying to... uhhh... Chris Benoit not showing up to the PPV because he was dead and killed his family. Awkward...

No Melina? BOOOOOOOOOO.

Hmmm... the commentators seem to be EXTREMELY QUIET during Nitro's entrance. Almost like something was cut :side:.

WE WANT BENOIT chants. Oh how those people regretted saying that the next night... .

:mark: Punk early on gets the better of Nitro, who buggers off to the outisde. Eventually Punk comes out and chases him, with Nitro getting back in the ring to do the old "lol I'll attack you as you come in the ring" spot... and Punk instead trips Nitro up and dives on him over the ropes instead :mark:.

:mark: Sweet CHUCK KICK (that's what he called it, right?) from Nitro.

Tazz and Styles mentioned that NO TITLE CAN BE WON ON A COUNTOUT. So it got me thinking... they should make a countout championship, where the only way to win is to beat your opponent by countout 8*D. Right, what's Dixie Carter's twitter again? I got a million dollar idea for her!!! 

So commentary has clearly been edited throughout this match... yet they left the WE WANT BENOIT chants from the crowd? Awesome editing job, WWE...

Nitro works over Punk's arm, no doubt to try and prevent the Anaconda Vice... so Punk fires back with KICKS~! and it's awesome.

Nice swinging neckbreaker off the ropes from Nitro, and we gots a NEW ECW champion!

Solid match. Will always wonder how a Punk/Benoit match would have gone, but in its place, I'm happy with this. Probably better than their other matches minus the one where Punk finally wins the title .

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


FOLEY AND ORTON BACKSTAGE CONFRONTATION~!

RICKY STEAMBOAT IS IN DA HOOOOOOUUUUUUUUSSSSEEEE!


*Santino Marella Vs Umaga - WWE Intercontinental Championship Match*

:lmao oh god, kinda forgot that Santino was a "fan" that won the IC title from UMAGA :lmao. Umaga, the guy that a few months earlier was demolishing John Cena. Then he loses to a "fan" :lmao.

Santino sells his arm and hand in a unique way during a nerve grip that I don't think I've ever seen before.

Oh, Umaga got himself DQ'd because he kept wailing on Santino in the corner.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


MAGNUM TA~!


*MVP Vs Ric Flair - WWE United States Championship Match*

What else did Flair do on SD in 2007 btw? I honestly don't remember him even getting drafted over lol. I just remember near the end of 07 when they started the retirement angle with him . 

:lmao best part of this match is MVP getting chopped to death, then unzipping his Power Rangers outfit to look at his chest :lmao.

:lmao Flair is bleeding. For no real reason :lmao.

MVP with an Ulimate Warrior style press slam. That was... unexpected tbh lol.

Love Flair's chop blocks to the back of his opponent's knee. Always look awesome.

MVP thumbs Flair in the eye then follows it up with the worst finisher of all time to win.

Match was fine. Standard stuff.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*Duece & Domino Vs Sgt Slaughter & Jimmy Snuka - WWE Tag Team Championship Match*

:lmao they took the belts off London and Kendrick and gave them to these jokers :lmao.

:lmao who the fuck decided on the opponents? :lmao

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Edge Vs Batista - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

So if Batista loses, he NEVER gets another shot at the title ever again. LET'S GO EDGE!

Oh, it's just Batista's last shot while EDGE is champion. That's boring .

*one month later*

I suppose I should like, actually WATCH the rest of this show now, right? FINE. Gonna be a huge step down from all the genuine CLASSIC matches I've been watching lately lol.

In all seriousness though, I have always heard good things about this match. Or at least one of their matches together, gonna assume it is this one. Hope more than assume.

:lmao Harley Race is at ringside and Cole talks him up and says he's trained champions like LANCE CADE who is one half of the world tag champs. JBL just fires back with "Trevor Murdoch..." and Cole shuts up :lmao.

Batista tries to work over Edge's left arm early on... and for some reason Edge sells it... after using his right arm.

:lmao pretty awesome ring post spot with Batista running head first into it.

Cole continues to be a moron by being unable to count. Batista hit the ring post HEAD FIRST. Then he went into the ring post two more times SHOULDER FIRST. Cole claims he his his shoulder on the post 3 times.

Batista wins by DQ when Edge gives him a low blow.

Guessing this isn't the "good" match between these 2 :side:.

Oh wait, Teddy Long is here. He orders the match to restart and tells Edge if he gets DQ'd again he will lose the title!

:lmao Batista gets a second chance and... hits a Batista Bomb on the floor, and takes so long to get Edge back in the ring he gets himself counted out :lmao.

:lmao.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Melina Vs Candice Michelle - WWE Women's Championship Match*

Hmmm.... fap? FAP.

Also, NO.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*John Cena Vs Mick Foley Vs Randy Orton Vs Booker T Vs Bobby Lashley - WWE Championship Match*

What an odd clusterfuck-ish match this is on paper lol. Dunno why but 5 feels weird for a match rather than a 4 way or a 6 way or something with an even number. Plus, Mick Foley in a main event for the title in 2007? Who thought that was a good idea? *remembers TNA gave him their world title a couple of years later* 

Booker T pussies out of the ring leaving Orton on his own with the 3 babyfaces. Tease a staredown between Cena and Lashley, then Booker comes back in and decks Cena.

LASHLEY DIVES OVER THE ROPES ONTO EVERYONE~! Huh, wasn't expecting that from him lol!

"Lashley has one goal, one thing on his mind and that's RANDY ORTON" :lmao at Orton interrupting things and screwing up JR's sentence .

Wow, 3 of the people in this match would end up in TNA in the next couple of years, and 2 of them are former TNA champions!!! :lmao

Pretty great spot with Lashley blocking an RKO, then turning right around into an F-U through the announce table!!!

Where the feck is Foley? He was there at the start of the match, then he did his Cactus Clothesline to Orton and got crushed by Lashley when Lashley dove over the ropes and then... nothing lol.

Oh, there is is! He just stopped Orton from winning the title! Thank you Mick! Thank you Mick! Thank you Mick!

PUNT TO MICK~!

F-U to Foley and Cena retains.

This was 18 minutes long according to wiki. Felt like 10 tbh. And not in a good way . Moves happened. Cena won. There was nothing to this match whatsoever. It's just there. It exists and nothing else. 

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 3*​


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

About damn time :lol

So... any plans to do another one of those within this month?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

^^^^^^CHAVO MARK :mark: Hey CAL, remember when you thought Chavo was GREAT in that match from 2007?



ATF said:


> BOOOOOO CAL BOOOOOO GFBE is possibly one of IYH's top tier matches ever BOOOOOOOOOOO CAL.
> 
> Now I feel like watching one of the low tier Taker/Mankind's (not counting Boiler Room Brawl). Like Survivor Series or Buried Alive ... that is, if I'm not playing Psychonauts or watching KRISPIN WAH w/my girlfriend instead 8*D.


Psychonauts fuck that play GOD HAND instead.


Top ten IYH matches, don't think I've ever thought about that. Gonna go to wikipedia and try it out

Michaels v. Jarrett (IYH2)
Bret v. Davey Boy (IYH5)
Michaels v. Diesel (IYH7)
Austin v. Vega (IYH8)
Michaels v. Mankind (IYH10)
Vader v. Austin v. Taker v. Bret (IYH13)
Vader v. Shamrock (IYH15)
A Bunch of Fuckers (IYH16)
Michaels v. Taker (IYH18)
Austin v. Dude Love (IYH Over the Edge)

six other ones I really like:

Owen & Yoko v. Luger & Davey Boy (IYH2)
Owen v. Michaels (IYH6)
Michaels/Sid/Ahmed v. Vader/Owen/Davey Boy (IYH9)
Leif Cassidy v. Flash Funk (IYH12)
A Bunch of Fuckers (IYH No Way Out of Texas)
Owen v. Shamrock (IYH Fully Loaded)


couple notes: While on wiki I noticed IYH 1 having Razor/Jarrett. That any good? Their Rumble match is awesome. Also, I've literally never seen a match from Revenge of the Taker. IDR Sauke/TAKA from CS so I didn't add it, but I'm guessing it should be on the HM list. Been a million years since I saw Michaels/Taker at Ground Zero, too. I used to love the Rock/Mankind match at the Valentine's Day show but I'd probably hate it now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well I was thinking of starting another right now, but fuck it, ya'll can wait 8*D.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You've never seen Taker/Mankind from REVENGE OF THE TAKER? Get on that right now.

That Jarrett/Razor match is actually Jarrett & Roadie Vs Razer. It's ok from what I remember, but nothing special like their RR singles match or anything.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

God Hand is very fun, but Psychonauts is funnier than Portal fucking 2. If there's any game on the face of the Earth that I can say made me laugh more than *PORTAL 2*, than yeah, fuck your opinions :side:... oh, and the game itself is terrific as well .

But back on the wrasslin', a top 10 IYH matches, eh:
1) Taker/Shawn HIAC, Badd Blood (*****)
2) HBK/Mankind, Mind Games (****3/4)
3) Austin/Dude, Over The Edge (****3/4)
4) Canadian Stampede Tag (****3/4)
5) Final Four Way (****1/2)
6) Bret/Bulldog, Season's Beatings (****1/2)
7) Taker/Mankind, Revenge Of The Taker (****1/2)
8) HBK/Jarrett, The Lumberjacks (****1/4)
9) Vader/Shamrock, A Cold Day In Hell (****1/4)
10) HBK/Diesel, Good Friends Better Enemies (****1/4)

Huh, it BARELY made my list. And it still fucking rules. How about dat, eh?

Regarding your unseen stuff, ROTT's Main Events are must watch. Taker/Mankind is a masterpiece, and Bret/Austin is kinda controversial around here but I fucking love it anyway. The IYH 1 Handicap match is ok, but Bret/Hakushi from the same show is really good and much better. Sasuke/TAKA is kinda spotty, but it's definitely the epic kind of spotty. Put that on your list too. HBK/Taker GZ totally holds up for me, though it is basically their version of Lesnar/Taker Unforgiven - a big time fight whose purpose is just storyline advancement. Rock/Mankind SVDM is still a quite smart and entertaining LMS match tbh, even if it has a bit of a spotty feel, and only second to their awesome Ladder match as the most underrated match from their series. There ya go.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching some of Fully Loaded 2000. Trips/Jericho is fucking awesome, starts out with some great work by Hunter, then descends into chaos with chair shots, sledgehammers, tables until the finish, with Hunter bloodied all up. Excellent.

Onto Benoit/Rock next.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Just to put things into perspective, I did not like Portal 2, at all.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

He actually reviewed it. Wow. And it looks like the only match worth watching on there is the Chavo match. Whose bright idea was it to suggest Cal to start with Vengeance? Let the man look forward to things. Go review Backlash Cal. I wonder how Cena's 2007 holds up. It's his career year, but I wouldn't put it up too high in the grand scheme of great in-ring years in the WWE. Certainly wouldn't even make top five in 2013. Maybe not even 2014.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm saving Backlash for last so I have a decent event to look forward to and end on lol. Plus, that'll be my 100th PPV ramble (not including RR or WM ones)!!!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

At least he's done with Vengeance which is the hardest show to sit through. There are some other PPVs that aren't very good at all (Judgment Day and SummerSlam to name a couple) but at least they are easier to finish.

Get to Cyber Sunday next. Or maybe The Bash.



#ROOT said:


> "Lashley has one goal, one thing on his mind and that's RANDY ORTON" :lmao at Orton interrupting things and screwing up JR's sentence .


"He's got one thing on his mind... AND IT'S MY ASS!" :jr


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Picked up my Nitro viewing again, onto the 10th November 1997 episode. NWO/Bischoff opened up the show singing 'Oh Canada' and name dropping Bret Hart. As a Bret mark, i still watch his WCW stuff, but ill always think what could have been.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

His initial feud with Ric Flair in WCW was really good. And I liked a match he had with Savage on PPV. And then he had a good feud with DDP for the United States Title.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

One thing I had to really question when watching this Nitro. The Sting build has been nearly perfect in terms of how they present him, but this week they decided to fuck kayfabe and have Bischoff and Hogan cut a promo advertising the fact that Sting is in a chick flick type movie, and bring out a big poster of it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Bret in WCW has gotta be one of the biggest flops ever tbf. It is probably one of the biggest "how good could've it been" cases I can recall. Though he did have the DDP and Flair feuds which I was a fan of.



Rah said:


> Just to put things into perspective, I did not like Portal 2, at all.


FUCK YOU. FUCK YOU AND FUCK YOU LIKE YOU'VE NEVER BEEN FUCKED BEFORE. THAT'S THE FUCKING GREATEST GAME OF OUR GENERATION, HOW DARE YOU NOT LIKE IT :side:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Bret's hardcore match with Terry Funk is worth a watch. IIRC there's a shopping trolley involved.



Rah said:


> Just to put things into perspective, I did not like Portal 2, at all.


Me either. Well, I liked bits of it. The rest was pretty much rubbish. But hey, I won't talk about it in here, I've made more than a couple multi-paragraph posts in the VG section about it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao For a good month, GOLDUST was the #1 babyface on RAW in 2002. Thank you Austin.

There are some worse flops than Bret in WCW. Goldberg in WWE was horrid. Steiner too. Sin Cara. Hmm, what are the biggest flops in mainstream wrestling history? Steve Williams is another good one. Would Vader's WWE run be considered a flop? I wouldn't call it that, but it did irreversible damage to his reputation.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao For a good month, GOLDUST was the #1 babyface on RAW in 2002. Thank you Austin.
> 
> There are some worse flops than Bret in WCW. Goldberg in WWE was horrid. Steiner too. Sin Cara. Hmm, what are the biggest flops in mainstream wrestling history? Steve Williams is another good one. Would Vader's WWE run be considered a flop? I wouldn't call it that, but it did irreversible damage to his reputation.


Vader's run started out strong but it seemed that the whole point of him when he debuted was just to put Shawn Michaels over. I'm not sure if WWE ever really intended or planned on him being a top guy. The same can't be said (or at least I don't think it can be said) about Hart in WCW or Goldberg/Steiner in WWE.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The problem with "Bret's flop" is that, unlike those other names, he is seen as one of the greatest of all time by so many individuals. Certain circumstances and LOLWCW aside, that run showed he isn't.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

John Cena vs Seth Rollins (10/10/2014) - The Cena house-show train keeps on chugging. Kuala Lumpur sure does love the guy. That or they're cheering that he finally isn't wearing jorts. I assume that his gear must have gone missing during the flight. Malaysia Air sure are losing a lot this year.

There's a lot of downtime in this match, to allow for Rollins to posture and get heat but he's not very effective for the most part. He's rather weak, and his timing/execution ranges from slightly off to downright terrible. He's really great on television in portraying a slimy weasel or selling frustration, and those moments do exist quite well here, but it's too little too late, for the most part. Cena's fantastic, though, and the glue keeping this together and the crowd electric. For anyone that doubts the man's selling, this is the match you need to see. Staggered selling, and weakened/exhausted mannerisms done to a tee.

The ending's rather flat, admittedly, but it at least plays into the theme of Rollins gesturing and taking too long to capitalise on his moments. Overall, it's the Cena show that showed Rollins as a guy who had his number for a good amount of time. I wouldn't recommend this past the fact it shows why some of us think Cena is as good as we say he is.



Of course there's some negatives coming out from here. I'm still positive they will not have Rollins/Cena headline HiAC, but this is not a good sign if they do. The two had a great TV match in December but this was nowhere close. Wyatt attacking Cena afterwards, and setting up the main event for the following night means Bray is still somehow relevant. No thank you. Kofi/Big E making the save and driving off The Wyatt Lackies best be a house show thing, but I doubt this is so if the NoD remake trio is getting off the ground. I just know Goldust is going to be stuck working them. Brilliant.




EDIT


John Cena Vs Bray Wyatt (11/10/2014) - Full 1080 HD and viewed from the best seat in the house. Now, why this couldn't have been their PPV matches I do not know, as this was great and everything you want a house show main to be. Quite honestly, the only critique I can give this is that Rod Zapata is a terrible referee. Wooden emoter for big spots between the guys, and is seemingly active in trying to blow his placing for the important spots within this match. That said, if you're the type of guy who doesn't notice the referee's facials during punches/spots of a match, or have much issue with their role, generally, this gripe really is nothing at all against the match, itself.

Cena's still bumping and selling like a star, and Wyatt's character shtick is on point. He's a guy that's badly exposed outside a planned match or a great wrestler's formula but, without the nonsense of their previous feud's storyline and this happening on a house show circuit, Cena's formula is the type that makes the guy shine. Nothing MotYC or list-changing, yet if you want to know what these guys are capable of (and can understand the nuances of a live show match), this is it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Rah said:


> The problem with "Bret's flop" is that, unlike those other names, he is seen as one of the greatest of all time by so many individuals. Certain circumstances and LOLWCW aside, that run showed he isn't.


You can't hold Bret's WCW work up as proof that Bret isn't one of the best ever. That's crazy. Bret wrestled from 1978-1997 before that WCW run, from about 1986-1997 he was one of the very best wrestlers WWE had. That's like holding up Terry Funks work in ECW and saying "See?!?! He isn't one of the greatest to ever do it!". Not fair to judge a guy way past his prime. An even better example is Michael Jordan on the Wizards, just because he was mediocre for those 2 years at the end doesn't change the fact he's the greatest basketball player to ever walk the face of the Earth. If you don't like Bret or don't think he's one of the best, that's totally fine everyone has their opinions no one is wrong about that sort of stuff, but using his WCW work to influence your opinion, when their is just a laundry list of mitigating factors, well that just doesn't hold water with me, personally.



Rah said:


> John Cena vs Seth Rollins (10/10/2014) - The Cena house-show train keeps on chugging. Kuala Lumpur sure does love the guy. That or they're cheering that he finally isn't wearing jorts. I assume that his gear must have gone missing during the flight. Malaysia Air sure are losing a lot this year.
> 
> There's a lot of downtime in this match, to allow for Rollins to posture and get heat but he's not very effective for the most part. He's rather weak, and his timing/execution ranges from slightly off to downright terrible. He's really great on television in portraying a slimy weasel or selling frustration, and those moments do exist quite well here, but it's too little too late, for the most part. Cena's fantastic, though, and the glue keeping this together and the crowd electric. For anyone that doubts the man's selling, this is the match you need to see. Staggered selling, and weakened/exhausted mannerisms done to a tee.
> 
> ...


I've always been one to notice refs and how they react and emote during matches, and also how good they are at staying out of the way and not fucking up crucial stuff while also seeming to still have authority. Charles Robinson in my opinion is one of the very best refs ever for that reason. He's so good at reacting an expressing outrage/shock/amazement/etc during matches, he's a great bumper, and he does a good, believable job at selling in general. I love Charles. Earl Hebner could take a good bump and was generally good at emoting, but god damn he was the dirt worst at getting in the middle of shit and ruining pacing/timing in matches. He drove me nuts at times. Tommy Young of course was great at all of that stuff too, although he did meddle a bit too much at times.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Earl Hebner's false finish three counts are the fucking worst, can smell a 2 and 7/8 kick out a mile off when he counts. Completely takes me out of finishing stretches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Realised that I haven't seen Bret/Austin from ROTT, at least not to my knowledge. And of course, with this PPV in my DVD player I couldn't NOT watch Undertaker/Mankind lol. God it's still fucking incredible. Love every second of it. And this my be my FAVOURITE bump ever:










And then Austin/Bret. Damn, what a match!!! They have a good brawl before Bret slows things down and fucking DESTROYS Austin's knee for the better part of the match. Great leg work and Austin's selling is impeccable. Love the little spot where he refuses to release the figure four that he reversed, so the ref has to physically break them apart and Austin makes a dive for the referee but collapses to the mat because of his knee, and just flips Henber the finger :lmao. Not as good as their SVS 96 or WM 13 matches, but it certainly deserves around ****1/4 imo .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bret/Austin feud :mark: Need to rewatch that IYH match TBH. The whole series id like to revisit at some point.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

It's been a while since I've watched anything WWE. Those house show matches seem interesting but I got a back log of indy stuff I need to get out the way first. Then I can get on with the WWE stuff and put my Network account to use. It's been a while since I've watched anything on the Network. Probably 2 weeks.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> Realised that I haven't seen Bret/Austin from ROTT, at least not to my knowledge. And of course, with this PPV in my DVD player I couldn't NOT watch Undertaker/Mankind lol. God it's still fucking incredible. Love every second of it. And this my be my FAVOURITE bump ever:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My favorite bump from Mankind/Taker RotT is when Taker flings Foley backwards into the steel guardrail, smacking Foleys head against the steel. He looks down at Mankind all menacingly, then like the cold hearted bastard he is he goes right back and throws Foley head first into the guardrail again. Just brutal sounding. That's my favorite Taker/Mankind match, I have it at ****1/2, narrowly edging out KotR 1996 and 1998. Just about the perfect match. And when Foley smashes Taker in the FACE with that water jug :mark: :mark: Foley just brought an entirely new level of violence when he arrived in WWE, it's awesome to watch.

Bret/Austin from the same event is indeed a kick ass match. Bret's performance wasn't quite as great as in the other 2 classics they had, but Austin was spectacular with his selling, mannerisms, and come backs/offense. I think I gave that match **** on last watch.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Got so much damn wrestling to watch lol, but this Mankind/Taker talk has got me in the mood, think I'll dig out all their matches tomorrow.  I don't think I've seen ROTT, or i dont remember it anyways.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My rating for Taker/Mankind ROTT is ****3/4 btw. Just terrific and their best match together. And most of their matches are at least **** lol (aside from the obvious Boiler Room Bollacks match). Wasn't that long ago that I went through all their matches and wrote a little about them all. So much fun. All their PPV matches, anyway. Didn't have access/couldn't be fucked getting hold of some of their TV matches lol. And they have a pretty good casket match from a house show I have on disc too. Probs around the interwebs somewhere for everyone to watch.

Got about another 4 IYH matches I wanna watch from the shows I own on DVD. After that I might visit some classic NWA/WCW stuff for the fun of it .


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The opening promo of Raw is literally the most skippable part of the show. They all feel so forced. Like they open the show just because it's the norm, not because they have a reason to.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Hmmm, I actually thought Bret was the star performer of the RotT match. I was impressed by his hybrid brawler-technical offense that he was using during this time period. One of my favorite runs ever for a wrestler. Great double main event. Cal should review Bulldog/Owen vs. Furnas/Lafon from IYH: Final Four.

:lmao Looks like Rah is gonna have to review 50 Kelly Kelly matches.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Solid finishing stretch there concluding with Orton taking a page out of DDP's playbook for cutter variants. Orton has had several sick RKO counters this year, but usually alot of them while visually cool are telegraphed. I approve of the lifting off variant there again ala DDP. Orton should do that more often. This may sound dumb given Orton's used the RKO for a decade now, but has Orton ever used a liftoff variant outside of Cena/Orton's double teams?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'd give Orton/Ziggler like **1/2. They've done better and while being decent, I didn't think it was overly good.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It's already nearly two hours and so far all we've got is good matches. Not a bad show...yet.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> It's already nearly two hours and so far all we've got is good matches. Not a bad show...yet.


Definitely solid matches. My problem with the show is that literally nothing ever gets advanced. Actually, there's almost nothing to advance. It just doesn't give me the urgency to watch live anymore. I like too much of the roster to stop watching though.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cena/Ambrose and whatever the hell Orton is doing now advanced.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

True. but I mean it'll all end up going back to an opening segment next week that'll lead to a main event tag match. I don't mean to be a downer, I just don't have much faith in the people I like getting to do anything interesting outside of Ambrose.

Edit: Rusev DA GOD is fantastic.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

All I know is that before RAW tonight, two men were in the midst of a battle to see who would watch more shitty matches from shitty wrestlers than the other. Now that number turned to one.

RUSEV PUTRIA!

EDIT: :lmao Jerry Lawler botched the English language.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> All I know is that before RAW tonight, two men were in the midst of a battle to see who would watch more shitty matches from shitty wrestlers than the other. Now that number turned to one.
> 
> RUSEV PUTRIA!


Fair point. :lmao

RUSEV is so fucking good. :mark:


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Raw was weird. It was more wrestling filled, but there was NO heat behind any of the matches at all except Rusev/Show, because it's actually had build and both competitors haven't been booked as shit.

Ambrose/Cena vs. Gold & Stardust vs. The Usos: **1/4
Randy Orton vs. Dolph Ziggler: **3/4
Seth Rollins vs. Jack Swagger: **1/4
Rusev vs. Big Show: ***1/4

- Orton/Ziggler was pretty much Orton/Jericho from NOC, imo. But the RKO was one of the sickest RKOs I remember seeing in recent memory.

- I'm also highly disappointed that Ambrose/Cena only got six minutes, but it's probably for the better because I would have gotten even more pissed with all the logic being thrown out the window. Ambrose was in the ring alone two times and didn't go for the contract. fpalm I hated that.

- Rusev continues to be one of the top in-ring workers putting on consistently good-to-great matches. I'm not sure if it's a ***1/4 or ***1/2 match, but I'll lean towards ***1/4... for now.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I thought the opening tag match was really fun. New dynamics to a good but tired formula. Liked Ziggler/Orton a lot and that RKO at the end was sick. Really impressed by Rollins' heel performance against Swagger. Put Swagger over like crazy. MOTN for me. And Rusev/Show was good as expected. Very good RAW. Three not terrible RAWs in a row.

:lmao Once you notice the pattern, Tommy Dreamer has the funniest promos ever. It starts off with Dreamer talking about how much he and the rest of the people in the back appreciate THIS BUSINESS, which then leads to Dreamer crying. And then finally he ends the promo by saying that he's going to take something to the extreme. All the while he speaks in a concussed tone and carries around a kendo stick or a trash can.

I'm watching a 10 Man tag match from a 2002 RAW and Shawn Michaels is standing outside the ring pulling a Mizdow and selling for the wrestlers in the match. He actually sells his back here as a "stunt double" better than he sells his back in his own matches :lmao

EDIT: OMFG THIS IS THE QUADRICEP MATCH! Same night as the famous Jackie Gayda match too! Watch this RAW!


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> You can't hold Bret's WCW work up as proof that Bret isn't one of the best ever. That's crazy. Bret wrestled from 1978-1997 before that WCW run, from about 1986-1997 he was one of the very best wrestlers WWE had. That's like holding up Terry Funks work in ECW and saying "See?!?! He isn't one of the greatest to ever do it!". Not fair to judge a guy way past his prime. An even better example is Michael Jordan on the Wizards, just because he was mediocre for those 2 years at the end doesn't change the fact he's the greatest basketball player to ever walk the face of the Earth. If you don't like Bret or don't think he's one of the best, that's totally fine everyone has their opinions no one is wrong about that sort of stuff, but using his WCW work to influence your opinion, when their is just a laundry list of mitigating factors, well that just doesn't hold water with me, personally.


I'd need to sit down and go through ECW to verify that, which I won't do. I do know, though, that Funk had a corker of a match in 2011. Did Bret? His WCW run was right after the matches people talk up as his all-time best. You don't just fall off the wagon so suddenly. There's certainly truth to the argument of Bret being helped by a WWE style that favoured his talents. He looked tremendous against Funk in their Wrestlefest '97 match, but what iconic/excellent performances did he have after that? 

Those I do see as the greatest adapt to fit their situation and increasing limitations. Lawler's a much heralded guy because he's had terrific matches from the late 70s and was still doing so in 2012. Flair kinda fell off the wagon, and I'm sure that will become a counter-point, but Bret has never been close to Flair's peak, output or sustained run of good performances. I'm not saying Hart's a terrible worker, rather I do not think he's as good as he's talked up as or anywhere close to being a greatest of all-time North-American.




> I've always been one to notice refs and how they react and emote during matches, and also how good they are at staying out of the way and not fucking up crucial stuff while also seeming to still have authority. Charles Robinson in my opinion is one of the very best refs ever for that reason. He's so good at reacting an expressing outrage/shock/amazement/etc during matches, he's a great bumper, and he does a good, believable job at selling in general. I love Charles. Earl Hebner could take a good bump and was generally good at emoting, but god damn he was the dirt worst at getting in the middle of shit and ruining pacing/timing in matches. He drove me nuts at times. Tommy Young of course was great at all of that stuff too, although he did meddle a bit too much at times.


Hebner's so ingrained into bad angles and matches that it seems he's an integral part into making a shitty situation at least entertaining. He's so hammy and excessive. Whenever he's used in a main event, you immediately know a false finish or ref bump is happening. He's not better, not at all, but I'd take a Hebner performance over a Zapata one purely because of the over-acting or situational mess. As for Robinson, I think we finally do agree on something! :



funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao Looks like Rah is gonna have to review 50 Kelly Kelly matches.


........


Fuck this company 





*Natalya, Kelly Kelly & The Bella Twins vs Maryse,Alicia Fox Team Laycool (01/10/2010)* - Matt Striker is announcing this, just to prove that things really can get worse. K2 and Alicia Fox botch the third move in. Wow. Off the fifth (excluding a light shove/slap from K2 that connects with nothing) both women tag out. Fuck, lucha may be endemic of quick showcasings but this was something else. 10 seconds. TEN SECONDS. K2 has no sense of ring positioning so Maryse has to stall as she waits for Kelly to crawl slowly to tag Natalya in. This might not have been too bad if Natalya could actually apply a sharpshooter.

Seemingly knowing the inability of these eight divas to fill up 3 minutes of action, the booker runs a rape/kidnapping angle on Layla with Hornswaggle. HOW IS THAT BABYFACE BEHAVIOUR?! Then, again, how is having every other diva lie motionless on the ground following NOTHING a good idea? I struck it lucky with the brevity of diva match lengths, but the sheer amount of mindfuckery in them is borderline psychosis-inducing.


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

Rah said:


> I'd need to sit down and go through ECW to verify that, which I won't do. I do know, though, that Funk had a corker of a match in 2011. Did Bret? *His WCW run was right after the matches people talk up as his all-time best. You don't just fall off the wagon so suddenly.* There's certainly truth to the argument of Bret being helped by a WWE style that favoured his talents. He looked tremendous against Funk in their Wrestlefest '97 match, but what iconic/excellent performances did he have after that?
> 
> Those I do see as the greatest adapt to fit their situation and increasing limitations. Lawler's a much heralded guy because he's had terrific matches from the late 70s and was still doing so in 2012. Flair kinda fell off the wagon, and I'm sure that will become a counter-point, but Bret has never been close to Flair's peak, output or sustained run of good performances. I'm not saying Hart's a terrible worker, rather I do not think he's as good as he's talked up as or anywhere close to being a greatest of all-time North-American.


Well, usually you don't, but to be fair to Bret, that whole Montreal stuff (and what happened to Owen later on) really fucked him up mentally, which no doubt effected his in-ring work quite a bit. He wasn't the same Bret after that. 



That contract on a pole match... what a waste of 6 minutes. Awful. Can't blame Cena or Ambrose though, because it's kinda hard to work a good 6 minute match, especially when it's a "______ ON A POLE"-match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

We're getting ANOTHER CENA VS ORTON MATCH ON PPV. Fuck. This. Company.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

#ROOT said:


> We're getting ANOTHER CENA VS ORTON MATCH ON PPV. Fuck. This. Company.


Wait, so I'm watching Kelly Kelly matches for no reason, then?!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rah said:


> Wait, so I'm watching Kelly Kelly matches for no reason, then?!


*shrugs* I don't even remember why you said you would lol . Ambrose beat Cena for the chance to face Seth at HIAC so... *shrugs again*


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rah watch Kelly/Somebody from MITB 2010 to see Kelly scream her head off the whole match. I truly don't remember who is actually in the match with her, even though I wrote about it not a month ago.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The bet was that all of this would happen at HIAC. We got match #1 last night. Does Kelly even have 50 matches?


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I'm not a bloodhound like some people are and don't find it nearly as frequently needed as many do the, but I believe blood is a very effective tool to either highlight viciousness of a wrestler and of course blood is excellent for telling the story. WWE is pg and all and yes, most of the time we see blood nowadays it is hardway, but I really believe that for Ambrose/Rollins to truly be maximized in effect, blood is needed and seems obvious. Will we see any? doubtful, but you got the story here of two guys who were like brothers until one stabbed him in the back and a feud dating a longways including Rollins fucking trying to end Ambrose's career with that curbstomp through the "cynderblocks", and since Brose has been out for ultimate revenge. Factor in that this takes place inside Hell in a Cell, whose reputation has taken a big hit since this ppv and ultimately the pg era. Yeah, I'd say this situation is perfect for some blood.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Rah said:


> I'd need to sit down and go through ECW to verify that, which I won't do. I do know, though, that Funk had a corker of a match in 2011. Did Bret? His WCW run was right after the matches people talk up as his all-time best. You don't just fall off the wagon so suddenly. There's certainly truth to the argument of Bret being helped by a WWE style that favoured his talents. He looked tremendous against Funk in their Wrestlefest '97 match, but what iconic/excellent performances did he have after that?
> 
> Those I do see as the greatest adapt to fit their situation and increasing limitations. Lawler's a much heralded guy because he's had terrific matches from the late 70s and was still doing so in 2012. Flair kinda fell off the wagon, and I'm sure that will become a counter-point, but Bret has never been close to Flair's peak, output or sustained run of good performances. I'm not saying Hart's a terrible worker, rather I do not think he's as good as he's talked up as or anywhere close to being a greatest of all-time North-American.
> .


For that very reason you listed I have Funk and Flair above the Hitman. Longevity. Funk had a CLASSIC, CLASSIC, amazing 2/3 Falls match with Jumbo Tsuruta in 1976, and in 2006 Funk was positively stealing the show in that Foley/Funk/Dreamer/Edge tag. That's 30 solid years apart, and Funk was still proving on any given night he could be the best. But Funk and Flair are special cases, Bret having 17 solid years of being a great wrestler is nothing to sneeze at. Bret also had his head completely screwed up when he went to WCW. Montreal definitely affected him in ways most people can't understand, then he got hurt, then his brother died. That's a lot of baggage to have to deal with, and I personally choose not to hold it against him that his WCW run wasn't up to his standards that he had previously set in WWE. Also, sometimes guys just loose it. There is no rhyme or reason to it, really. Bret's squarely in my top 10 (US only) but I can understand why some would choose not to think as highly of him.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Vader Vs SID from IYH Buried Alive... what does everyone think to it?

I just had a strange desire to watch it, probably because they are two of my favs, but I had the opinion going into the match that it SUCKED. Big time. And then was confused when it was all over because not only didn't it suck big time, but it was actually GOOD. It doesn't last very long, Vader is good on offence, Sid brings out some high flying moves to counter the power of Vader, and Cornette on the outside is fun as always. Pleasantly surprised by this one .

And while I've got the DVD in... might as well watch the main event too .


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

THEY'RE DOING ANOTHER FUCKING CENA/ORTON PPV MATCH?!?! AND IT'S IN THE CELL??! AGAIN?!?! HAHAHAHA FUCK OFF


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

At least we're getting Ambrose/Rollins in HIAC :dance3


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I still want to see that match and their feud is still by far the best thing going but I can't pretend it didn't lose some of its appeal when they let Reigns beat Rollins clean on free TV.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> THEY'RE DOING ANOTHER FUCKING CENA/ORTON PPV MATCH?!?! AND IT'S IN THE CELL??! AGAIN?!?! HAHAHAHA FUCK OFF


You just have to laugh at this point. They will most likely have a rematch the next night on Raw.

At least we get Ambrose/Rollins, the first feud in fuck knows how long that actually warrants the damn cell.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Saint Dick said:


> I still want to see that match and their feud is still by far the best thing going but I can't pretend it didn't lose some of its appeal when they let Reigns beat Rollins clean on free TV.


For me the appeal was lost when Cena got involved and they took such a simple build and make it super complicated before getting to Ambrose/Rollins.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

#ROOT said:


> Vader Vs SID from IYH Buried Alive... what does everyone think to it?
> 
> I just had a strange desire to watch it, probably because they are two of my favs, but I had the opinion going into the match that it SUCKED. Big time. And then was confused when it was all over because not only didn't it suck big time, but it was actually GOOD. It doesn't last very long, Vader is good on offence, Sid brings out some high flying moves to counter the power of Vader, and Cornette on the outside is fun as always. Pleasantly surprised by this one .
> 
> And while I've got the DVD in... might as well watch the main event too .


Oh hey, what a shock, the buried alive match is still fucking epic .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think I recall liking that Vader/Sid match, but they may have had another match together that was better. Cal, please watch the Furnas/Lafon vs. Owen/Bulldog tag match at IYH: Final Four. And then watch Goldust vs. Val Venis at IYH: Judgment Day.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Seen that tag already, but it was great so I might go back to the Final Four show and give it another watch.

Don't own that JD show so won't be watching that other match .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Will you at least be reviewing that Judgment Day movie?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The only JD movie I own is Terminator 2 .


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Shawn Michaels v. Chris Jericho (Unforgiven 9/7/08)*
Wanted to go through their whole '08 series but couldn't find Judgment Day or Great American Bash on youtube or dailymotion. Shame because those are the two best matches of the series from what I remember. This match was a complete mess. At no point did I _really_ buy into the idea of this being some uber personal hate-filled grudge match. The first few minutes were a good start to an unsanctioned match with the babyface getting his revenge shine, unfortunately that's about as far as it went before it turned into a nonsensical forced epic. Michaels showed some aggression at points in the match and actually threw some strikes that were much, much better than his usual shitty stuff, but Jericho was god fucking awful. Michaels came into the match on the back of an eye injury that nearly cost him his career AND with a torn fucking triceps. Obviously Jericho is gonna target one of those weaknesses first chance he gets, right? Wrong. He did the complete opposite. I'm sorry Chris, throwing Shawn into a chair and then attacking the eye about 10 minutes into the match because he started to sell it isn't smart wrestling. It's fucking dumb and made it look like you forgot that you're the one who injured him in the first place. At least the part that followed with Michaels going on a crazed half-blind assault was good. Don't even get me started on the torn triceps. Jericho didn't go after the arm until late in the match when Lance Cade had to come out and show him that it made sense to attack Shawn's blatantly injured body part. By this point I didn't want to watch anymore and stopped paying attention. Started back paying attention to see how the match finished. Yeah Michaels raining down punches on an unconscious Jericho was cool except for the fact that the referee stopped a fucking unsanctioned match. Every time they book one of those things they make it clear the ref is only there to count the fall or call a submission. Ref stops the match anyway. Okay... Never watching this again as long as I live. NOT ADDING

That re-watch has me wondering how I ever thought that match was good. That's a lie. I can kind of still see why others would think it's good or even great but man have my tastes changed a lot over the years. I wonder how the ladder match is going to fair.



Spoiler: is Shawn Michaels good?!?!



Matches watched (8):

Shawn Michaels v. RVD (Raw 11/25/02)
Shawn Michaels v. Vladimir Kozlov (Raw 3/2/09)
Shawn Michaels v. Jerry Lawler (Raw 8/14/95)
Shawn Michaels v. Christian (Raw 10/4/04)
Shawn Michaels v. Randy Orton (Judgment Day 5/20/07)
Shawn Michaels v. Randy Orton (Cyber Sunday 10/28/07)
Shawn Michaels v. Randy Orton (Survivor Series 11/17/07)
Shawn Michaels v. Chris Jericho (Unforgiven 9/7/08)

LISTED:

1. Shawn Michaels v. Randy Orton (Survivor Series 11/17/07)
2. Shawn Michaels v. Christian (Raw 10/4/04)


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm just gonna say it, I don't care nor do I have any interest in Ambrose/Rollins. The feud definitely lost a lot of steam since Cena's involvement.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, since I usually write down my thoughts of Raw here, I'll say that this week surprised me by NOT being quite the bad show. Actually, on current product standards, it was pretty decent, I guess.

I liked the strong wrestling focus on this show. Even if not all of it was GOOD. For such, two totally fine matches in Rollins/Swagger, which was stupendous although hurt by the Godawful crowd and some iffy arm selling by Swagger; and of course, Show/Rusev II, which I'm seriously considering putting in my ***1/2+ list (the crowd actually cared, for one). And the opener tag was fun, had its stupid things but it was fun.

Then, the rest also tried though part of me didn't really like those matches. Orton/Ziggler was VERY Orton/Jericho NOC'esque, quite frankly - which puts it on "technically sound but nothing much to care about" tier. Skipped Sheamus/Miz and the Divas stuff, but even THAT stuff had storyline advancement (bad storyline advancement, but hey, at least they're trying). And then of course, Cena/Ambrose, a match that had me with my heart on my hands because of a potential LOLCenaWins case, came off looking as very... odd. Like, it really resembled me the Pole match version of the Ambrose/Rollins Lumberjack match in a sorta bad way. It was 6 minutes, it was clusterfucky, it was chaotic... but by God, some things I just found off. Why the hell wasn't Ambrose trying to get the contract when he was there alone? I'm pretty sure if this were Batman vs. the Joker in a Gun OR Non-lethal Batarang on a Pole match, Joker wouldn't waste time to get the gun, even if he is "insane". And Ambrose trying to prove a point by hurting Cena doesn't make a whole lot of sense either, because there is no better way to prove a point than actually BEATING Cena. But on the plus side, the match was fun, and the right decision was made.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The bet was that all of this would happen at HIAC. We got match #1 last night. Does Kelly even have 50 matches?


The bet was that Cena would lose to Ambrose. The rest is irrelevant. Sorry for murdering your enjoyment, but it's your burden to watch those 50 Khali matches now. 

ATF looking really smug there. Blame that guy for not taking his end of the bargain with me. :

Just as well, I only got four matches in and wanted to probe my occipital lobe with a rusty rail spike.



Yeah1993 said:


> Rah watch Kelly/Somebody from MITB 2010 to see Kelly scream her head off the whole match. I truly don't remember who is actually in the match with her, even though I wrote about it not a month ago.


Layla.

I'm not sure if she's emotionally lost, terrible in grasping acting or has never watched or trained in wrestling. I get she was selling weeks of frustration/bullying but those screams were excessive.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, I never actually had any bet w/ya, Rah. Never, ever, ever. :side:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bah, if Rah wants to change the rules, then I guess I have no choice but to watch those 50 matches. At least it gives me an excuse to watch Batista somehow carry Khali to good matches. I was under the assumption that Rah thought Ambrose would win both matches at HIAC. But somebody needs to watch those Khali matches if Cal isn't gonna bother with his 2007 reviews.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

OK, I am going to assume everybody in this thread got together and started PMing each other with the goal to make me believe that WWE were doing Cena/Orton again. Because there is no way WWE are actually doing Cena/Orton again.



Saint Dick said:


> I wonder how the ladder match is going to fair.


It's even worse, IMO.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

My biggest regret is that Rah never got to watch that Kelly Kelly match where Rosa Mendes botches standing.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

sharkboy22 said:


> I'm just gonna say it, I don't care nor do I have any interest in Ambrose/Rollins. The feud definitely lost a lot of steam since Cena's involvement.


Yeah, the program has gone down several notches for me since Cena's involvement after being the hottest feud heading into Summerslam, and looked like it was going to be the hottest thing post-NOC.

It's still better than anything else on the program now, but that's not saying much.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well I COULD continue watching those 2007 PPV's... or I could keep watching random classics from IYH PPV's . Bret/Hakushi is on right now .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

#ROOT said:


> Well I COULD continue watching those 2007 PPV's... or I could keep watching random classics from IYH PPV's . Bret/Hakushi is on right now .


When was the last time you saw Owen/Yoko v. Luger/Davey Boy from IYH 2 (I think it's the second)? I need more people to think that's awesome. And when was the last time you saw the Austin/Vega strap match? On last watch I thought that was as good as any WWF match of 96 other than Shawn/Foley.


I don;t think I mentioned this earlier but after seeing the table spot in that GIF, I'm pretty sure I saw the Taker/Foley ROTT years ago. I always thought that spot happened at KOTR 96.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> When was the last time you saw Owen/Yoko v. Luger/Davey Boy from IYH 2 (I think it's the second)? I need more people to think that's awesome. And when was the last time you saw the Austin/Vega strap match? On last watch I thought that was as good as any WWF match of 96 other than Shawn/Foley.
> 
> 
> I don;t think I mentioned this earlier but after seeing the table spot in that GIF, I'm pretty sure I saw the Taker/Foley ROTT years ago. I always thought that spot happened at KOTR 96.


That tag is on the first IYH . Planning on watching it because I know you always pimp it lol. Just got through Bret/Hakushi which is still great, and Razor Vs Jarrett/Roadie which is still a really fun match. Think I'll probably watch the entire event now tbh . Bret/Lawler, tag titles match, MABEL VS ADAM BOMB, SID Vs Diesel, Kama Vs Undertaker and Bam Bam Vs Tatanka lol. This 1995 PPV is more interesting to me than the current product :lmao.

Been a few years since I saw the strap match, but I don't have that event on DVD. I do have the Vega/Bradshaw strap match though . No idea if its any good though lol.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

I watched Rusev v. Show and it was surprisingly good. _**** 1/2*_ on first watch. Rusev has gained my admiration.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> My biggest regret is that Rah never got to watch that Kelly Kelly match where Rosa Mendes botches standing.


This sounds incredible.

However as someone who tripped over a box and took out a whole display of glue at work yesterday, I can't vouch for being the most poised person.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

About 32 seconds in. Rosa Mendes had one job, and that was to stand still next to the turnbuckle. Somehow she can't even do that. And the uploader of this video had the audacity to call this a great match.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Shawn Michaels v. Chris Jericho (No Mercy 10/5/08)*
Like the Unsanctioned match at Unforgiven, I'm never watching this again as long as I live. I don't feel like writing about it either to be perfectly honest so I'll keep it short and sweet. Other than building fantastic drama at the end (that crowd was going absolutely nuts) and taking some big bumps there's not much I can credit these guys or the match for. It's full of stupid shit, bad shit and contrived shit. That sequence in the corner that ended with Jericho pulling the ladder back on top of himself so Michaels could elbow drop the ladder made me hate both guys. I hated the two of them even more when the very next spot was Jericho showing us he can hurt himself too by Lionsaulting the ladder. There's a lot, and I mean A LOT more bad, stupid, contrived shit I could mention but I don't feel like. NOT a good match. NOT ADDING


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> About 32 seconds in. Rosa Mendes had one job, and that was to stand still next to the turnbuckle. Somehow she can't even do that. And the uploader of this video had the audacity to call this a great match.


:lmao Holy shit.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Saint Dick, how about you give WM 19 and rematch on Raw later that year match a try? The HBK/Jericho feud isn't just 2008 8*D


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Bah, if Rah wants to change the rules, then I guess I have no choice but to watch those 50 matches. At least it gives me an excuse to watch Batista somehow carry Khali to good matches. I was under the assumption that Rah thought Ambrose would win both matches at HIAC. But somebody needs to watch those Khali matches if Cal isn't gonna bother with his 2007 reviews.



I'm a man of my word, as well as one of masochist intent. If there really was a change of rules, let's call it down the middle. If you watch 50 Khali matches, I'll watch those Kelly Kelly matches. Just don't skimp on the Batista, Cena (including the 3way with Umaga) and HHH matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sorry Yeah, watched that IYH tag and didn't think it was anything special. Was fun, but it only lasted like 5 minutes and was over just as I started to get into it . 

Also watched ADAM BOMB VS MABEL. Was also very short and fun but nothing more.

Bret/Lawler was ok but again hardly got any time. Not too surprised there since it was Bret's second match of the night, but it ain't like he COULDN'T have had another lengthy match. I might watch KOTR 93 next.

SID Vs Diesel is up next :mark:. Far too excited for this match than I should :lmao.

EDIT: Oh man, there was an Owen/Bulldog match on this show too? And that was the dark match they decided to NOT give us on the DVD?


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Watching Summerslam 1991 in my PPV marathon on the network and have to say Bret/Perfect isn't the flawless match I've thought it was all these years. I've seen it a dozen times but I noticed the flaws alot more. The pacing in the middle is slow and they make a mistake where Bret falls off the top and Perfect follows him lol. Nice finish but not the ***** match I thought it was.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I just bought The Rise and Fall of WCW and the Ricky Steamboat DVD from my local FYE store for a combined $7. I'd say that's a steal considering both DVDs have the first two Steamboat/Flair matches in '89 :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> EDIT: Oh man, there was an Owen/Bulldog match on this show too? And that was the dark match they decided to NOT give us on the DVD?


Which IYH is this, 2?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The first IYH. They went to a 15 minute time limit draw in a KOTR qualifying match. They put the Kama/Undertaker and Bam Bam/Tatanka matches on the DVD but not that one .

Watched SID/Diesel, was alright. Not horrible, but Sid has a nasty habit of sitting in rest holds multiple times during a match.

Stuck IYH 2 in next, Kid/Roadie was ok, and Jarrett/HBK was awesome still. 

Seems I read Yeah's post wrong last night, and the tag he pimps IS the IYH 2 tag with Owen/Yoko Vs Davey and Luger, not the WM rematch against the smoking gunns. Excited for it now :mark:. Then we gots a lumberjack match with Sid and Diesel, and 2 dark matches in Bret Vs The Pirate dude and Taker/Kama casket match.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

ATF said:


> Saint Dick, how about you give WM 19 and rematch on Raw later that year match a try? The HBK/Jericho feud isn't just 2008 8*D


I watched the WM19 match earlier this year. I'm trying to watch matches I've either never seen or haven't seen in a long time. WM25 v Taker is next on my list. Or something from '96.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Saint Dick, I'd definitely watch this one when you get a chance, if you haven't seen it. 

Or if you have seen it. :side:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I think I have seen it but the fact that I can't say with certainty that I have means it's definitely added to the list.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, finally watched the ACTUAL IYH tag you wanted me to watch . It was good!!! Yoko getting knocked down and landing on Owen's foot was by far the highlight of the match though :lmao. 

Lumberjack match time! SID AND DIESEL!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I made a post blaming you for being shitty and wondering how in the hell I didn't see the match was 5 minutes long but it seems I don't need it now. 

When going through the IYH cards a few days ago I saw that Owen/Davey and got stoked and then saw 'dark match' and assumed no footage of it will ever exist so I got unhappy.


EDIT - Michaels/Hardy is good. Michaels also had matches with shitty as fuck Kennedy that were shockingly not the worst thing on planet Earth.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sid/Diesel Lumberjack match was pretty good. Both their IYH matches are way better than I remembered. DIESEL diving over the ropes onto the lumberjacks was cool. SID randomly leaving the ring to attack some lumberjacks at the end only to get mauled and thrown back in for Diesel to boot him in the face and win was stupid though. Sid was in full control of the match up until that point. MABEL attacked Diesel at one point so that no doubt leads to their classic at SummerSlam .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> When going through the IYH cards a few days ago I saw that Owen/Davey and got stoked and then saw 'dark match' and assumed no footage of it will ever exist so I got unhappy.


Like that Owen Hart/Kurt Angle Raw dark match we'll never see.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Good god The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar did not hold up. Just watched Summerslam 2002 and it was clearly the weakest match of the night. Still a good match, but very flawed. 

I don't know where this revisionist history of Rock losing cleanly to Brock came from, because there was A LOT of Heyman interference, to the point where it got excessive. Brock at the time clearly did not know how to wrestle a lengthy match, and it was clear from how boring his control segment was. Instead of seeing the incredible feats of strength and brutality that we saw in his squashes and later on saw in his main event bouts, Brock just put on really dull and boring rest holds on Rock. I didn't get this sense that Brock was trying to hurt Rock. It was so clear that Brock did not know what he was doing. 

And then Rock. One of the stories going into this match is that Rock had injured ribs from Benoit and Eddie attacking him on the Smackdown before the PPV. Well my question is, what the hell happened within that week and during that match to those ribs? Lesnar's dull control segment was focused on Rock's ribs, but Rock did not sell one bit. Very disappointed that a man as talented as Rock forgot to do something so fundamental. On top of that, I really didn't like how Rock did not put over Brock's size in any way. Even guys like Mark Henry and Rikishi put over Brock's astonishing physique and athleticism in the way they wrestled against him, but Rock wrestled that match like it was something you would see on Smackdown. I really don't know what I saw in this match before, but the only thing that I thought was special about this match was the double kip-up.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> I just bought The Rise and Fall of WCW and the Ricky Steamboat DVD from my local FYE store for a combined $7. I'd say that's a steal considering both DVDs have the first two Steamboat/Flair matches in '89 :mark:


FYE has a ton of dirt cheap DVDs ever since the Network launched. I haven't bought any because I have the Network but still some pretty great deals to be found if you don't have the Network but buy DVDs for some strange reason.


----------



## ★Th0t Patr0L★ (Oct 22, 2013)

Whoops, wrong thread.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Good god The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar did not hold up. Just watched Summerslam 2002 and it was clearly the weakest match of the night. Still a good match, but very flawed.
> 
> I don't know where this revisionist history of Rock losing cleanly to Brock came from, because there was A LOT of Heyman interference, to the point where it got excessive. Brock at the time clearly did not know how to wrestle a lengthy match, and it was clear from how boring his control segment was. Instead of seeing the incredible feats of strength and brutality that we saw in his squashes and later on saw in his main event bouts, Brock just put on really dull and boring rest holds on Rock. I didn't get this sense that Brock was trying to hurt Rock. It was so clear that Brock did not know what he was doing.
> 
> And then Rock. One of the stories going into this match is that Rock had injured ribs from Benoit and Eddie attacking him on the Smackdown before the PPV. Well my question is, what the hell happened within that week and during that match to those ribs? Lesnar's dull control segment was focused on Rock's ribs, but Rock did not sell one bit. Very disappointed that a man as talented as Rock forgot to do something so fundamental. On top of that, I really didn't like how Rock did not put over Brock's size in any way. Even guys like Mark Henry and Rikishi put over Brock's astonishing physique and athleticism in the way they wrestled against him, but Rock wrestled that match like it was something you would see on Smackdown. I really don't know what I saw in this match before, but the only thing that I thought was special about this match was the double kip-up.


There is so much wrong with this post dude, I'm dissapointed in you.

Brock/Rock is beyond excellent, it's not MotN as that belongs to Angle/Rey but it's easily my #2 for my personal favorite PPV ever. Brock's control segment wasn't dull, I loved the bear hug and him just man handling the Rock. There is no revisionist history about Brock beating Rock "clean". Yea Heyman interfered plenty in the early going but if I recall he has absolutely nothing to do with the match for the last 7-8 minutes or so. Not a perfect "clean" finish but it definitely served it's purpose, Brock looked like he deserved to win and that's what counts. I think all the fans in that arena would agree with me, as you can hear a subtle turn throughout the match. It starts with a lot of Rock chants, by the end people are 50-50 at best if not in favor of Brock. 

You said "Brock at the time clearly did not know how to wrestle a lengthy match". What, so he just randomly figured it out 3-4 weeks later in that awesome match at Unforgiven with Taker? A whopping 2 months after that SS match Brock wrestles one of the greatest matches ever against Taker at No Mercy, it's not like he earned his PhD in wrestling in 2 months. Dude had been in developmental for over a year before making the main roster, he was a complete natural. Brock in his first year in wrestling was selling better than I see a lot of 10+ year vets sell. 

Brock vs Rock is a pretty simple match on the whole, but even so, there were zero noticeable fuck ups by either party from what I remember. I think it's an excellent "Big Fight" type match and I really don't see why you turned on it so harshly. I think this might be a case of you thinking too hard my friend.

On another topic, I'm over halfway through the new Jericho book and I'm really loving it. He goes in depth about the Michaels feud and I've decided to watch that entire feud again tonight when I get home. I've always liked it, but never been completely blown away with it like a lot of other people were. Then again I didn't experience it live as I wasn't watching wrestling at the time. I'm guessing I'm gonna appreciate it more now that I've read Jericho's take on the motivations and psychology for doing what they did.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rock/Bork is MOTN for SS 2002 as far as I'm concerned. Terrific match there w/a simple but awesome story. Bork's control segments weren't dull to me, and Heyman's interference (unlike in the Punk match which I was a little bothered with) made perfect sense here, since Brock, being the NEXT Big Thing, needed more than just his brute force and raw power to overcome the CURRENT (at the time) Big Thing in Rock. Plus, Heyman didn't even interfere in the final stretch. He took the Rock Bottom through the announce table and never to be seen again (in that match). To each their own, but Rock/Bork as far as I'm concerned is excellent.

Last night I watched few but not much wrestling related stuff. Seen the Golden Lovers/YOSHIHIKO and Danshoku tag, and adored it, because UNDERTAKER YOSHIHIKO (****). Watched Angle/Benoit Unforgiven to see what did I think of it after so long last time I watched it, thought it started great and had it's moments but I'm not too high on it (***). Watched Lesnar/Taker immediatly afterwards, and still an epic storyline advancement device (***3/4). And too watched Joe/Ki/Hayashi from BFG, and I thought it was solid, nothing more, nothing less (**3/4).

Wanna know what you guys think on Bangle from Unforgiven, by the way. It's one of their less talked about major matches around here so I'm kinda curious to know


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It's shite. Think I gave it *.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> It's shite. Think I gave it *.



I think it's pretty awesome I gave it ****


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well you suck obviously.

Final episode of WWR Classic was put on my BLOG~! yesterday!


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

*funnyfaces* how the fuck can you shit on Brock/Lesnar like that? Oh well at least you marked out for the double-kip.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

This thread is like the Unpopular Opinions threads sometimes lol.

Rock/Brock is great.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Even I love BRock Lesnar, and I think Rock is a waste of oxygen in the wrestling business .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

For anyone that's a big Austin mark or a fan of the Austin/Rocky WM 17 classic, you should check out the Steve Austin podcast from today. He does a play by play commentary for the match, explaining why he was doing certain things when he did them, things he and Rock messed up, and all the little nuts and bolts of how that match came together. It's really interesting to listen to. I've never heard a wrestler break down their own match to this degree, going so far as to explain why he positioned himself in certain places when he did, and how he chose the timing to fire up a comeback on offense or when he did to bump/sell for Rock. Really really cool.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sorry to tell you this, but I just watched Brock/Taker from Unforgiven. Good match, but also went down. And Brock's time management skills were partly at fault.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Another one bites the dust. 

Looks like ff has joined the list of members in this thread who always prevent themselves from enjoying a match by nitpicking every little thing. He's always been a bit on the border but I think he might've fully crossed over to the dark side now.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I wish it wasn't like that. Because on that same show, I loved the eight-man tag, Benoit/Angle, Jericho/Flair, and Eddie/Edge. But nobody cares about reading about matches people like. As for Summerslam, I loved every match besides Rock/Lesnar. Even Undertaker/Test, which is looked down upon everywhere else. But it's these two specific Brock matches that just don't do it for me. And I don't wanna say that Brock is a bad worker or anything because at the same time, Brock is having really good five minute matches with Rikishi and Matt Hardy, but something about Brock on offense for long periods of time just bore me. Like I get the point, but I want Brock to move on from another garbage bearhug.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

C2D that's why I don't post in here anymore. People are ao fixated on adjusting a match 1/4* or whatever the rating scale is these days due to a botched DDT or what have you that it takes the fun out of discussing matches. Not alienating funnyfaces, but more a generalization.

Edit Benoit/Jericho ladder **3/4


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> For anyone that's a big Austin mark or a fan of the Austin/Rocky WM 17 classic, you should check out the Steve Austin podcast from today. He does a play by play commentary for the match, explaining why he was doing certain things when he did them, things he and Rock messed up, and all the little nuts and bolts of how that match came together. It's really interesting to listen to. I've never heard a wrestler break down their own match to this degree, going so far as to explain why he positioned himself in certain places when he did, and how he chose the timing to fire up a comeback on offense or when he did to bump/sell for Rock. Really really cool.


FUCK. YES. :mark:

I'm a giant mark of that match, and I have it at *****. Shoot me now :dance.

Btw, isn't **3/4 for Benoit/Jericho Ladder a little TOO low? Or you just didn't enjoy it that much?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'd much rather this turn into the unpopular opinions thread than another Vader or Mankind vs. Shawn Michaels circlejerk.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wait, since when is a Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind circlejerk a bad thing? It's not like we're talking about a Hart/Michaels or something. At least that match is damn near perfect (I didn't like the finish despite it making perfect sense, which is why I didn't give it the full five, but it's still amazing).

But really, it is true. All of these old classics are slowly getting less love here. Unpopular opinions are still opinions, but... Goddamn.

Let's run a little test here for another match I love: does EVERYBODY still like Austin/Dude from Over The Edge?


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Brock said:


> This thread is like the Unpopular Opinions threads sometimes lol.
> 
> Rock/Brock is great.



Seems like some people often go clearly out of their way just to be a contrarian and find what might be the absolute most minute detail as justification to open the door and crap on something that is acclaimed by hell even revered workers on here in the industry. I'm not saying that not everyone is entitled to their opinion, but damn the reasoning in here sometimes behind why something sucks can be head scratching, particularly when a double standard is later involved with a different, preferred worker. I'll see that in here alot with Shawn Michaels criticism. Different stokes I guess but I just wanted to point that out.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Make love, not war.










This is fucking fantastic. Is Jerry Lawler always as good as this? :hmm: He's always a guy I see get brought up when talking about the all time greats but I've just never gone out of my way to watch a decent amount of him so I can never comment. Eddie Gilbert is phenmomenal in this match, also. Sells King's offence exceptionally, bumping like a god damn pinball.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

King is amazing, and he has WAY better matches than that. Check out everything he ever did with Dundee, FUNK and Mantell. As a starting point.

Watched some of the 93 KOTR earlier since I was in the mood for some Bret. His match with Razor was good stuff, better than their RR match from earlier in the year which I'm not too high on. Then Perfect/Hughes was surprisingly fun (well, I say surprisingly but this was Mr Perfect lol), with Perfect playing to his strengths (speed, technical ability, bumping) and Mr Hughes using his raw power. Holy FUCK at the bump Mr Hughes takes about 20 seconds into the match from an Arm Drag. The big bastard nearly flies out of the ring!!!

Gonna go watch everything else on the show that interests me. Man, wrestling is SO MUCH FUN when you go out of your way to avoid the shit and just watch for nothing more than FUN. I enjoy writing about wrestling 70% of the time, but that other 30% of the time I just wanna sit back and do nothing but watch .


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Just finished watching Austin's podcast. To really appreciate it, you just have to watch the match along with it. Which I did on the Network for just $9.99, as recommended by Austin himself. 

Moving on, I downloaded that 20 disc Memphis set from XWT-Classics and I'm having a really hard time watching it because a lot of the matches seem to be clipped. Every time I'm sinking my teeth into a particular moment in the Lawler/Savage cage match out of nowhere something happens. It's just really distracting.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

ATF said:


> Let's run a little test here for another match I love: does EVERYBODY still like Austin/Dude from Over The Edge?


This could be fun. How many matches are there where everybody reading this can agree is at least ***3/4 or ****-ish?



sharkboy22 said:


> Moving on, I downloaded that 20 disc Memphis set from XWT-Classics and I'm having a really hard time watching it because a lot of the matches seem to be clipped. Every time I'm sinking my teeth into a particular moment in the Lawler/Savage cage match out of nowhere something happens. It's just really distracting.


I don't remember THAT many matches missing footage, but the best thing you can do is pretend it was a terribly edited commercial break.

Wait 20 discs is there a match list for that? DVDVR set isn't 20 discs.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, can't be the DVDVR set. That is 16 Discs.

I do agree though, some matches the clipping is very annoying, but like yeah said, pretend that is a commercial point. I do wish one day we get to see the full Savage/Lawler match though.

I plan on watching the Taker/Mankind matches the weekend finally.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Sounds like High Spots' release.




Yeah1993 said:


> This could be fun. How many matches are there where everybody reading this can agree is at least ***3/4 or ****-ish?


I bet assure you there's a load. 

Thread does focus on certain styles/wrestlers that not all of us enjoy, but everyone loves Eddie and Rey. William gets love, as does Finlay. Benoit, too. If there aren't at least 30 matches everyone agrees on I'd be shocked. Number seems very conservative, too.


edit: I'm not mentioning the word bet in this thread, again.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Yeah, it is the Highspots release. I was actually thinking about buying a few of them but thank God I didn't. I may be overreacting but they're just unwatchable.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> Wait, since when is a Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind circlejerk a bad thing? It's not like we're talking about a Hart/Michaels or something. At least that match is damn near perfect (I didn't like the finish despite it making perfect sense, which is why I didn't give it the full five, but it's still amazing).
> 
> But really, it is true. All of these old classics are slowly getting less love here. Unpopular opinions are still opinions, but... Goddamn.
> 
> Let's run a little test here for another match I love: does EVERYBODY still like Austin/Dude from Over The Edge?


There are tons of matches everyone loves here. That's nothing to worry about at all. I don't really think it's bad that old classics are getting less love. Punk/Cena MITB might be my choice for best WWE match ever, and looking back I actually liked seeing JustJoel criticize it. Remember also that a lot of matches that are universally panned here are matches that other folks would give us dirty looks if we announced those opinions. So long as you explain why you might not like a match, that should be fine no matter how "nitpicky" it may sound like.

And it's not even that people are calling these "universal" classics bad. I don't think Rock/Lesnar is bad if you looked at my first paragraph. I just don't have it at ****1/2 anymore. Same goes with Brock/Taker from Unforgiven. Might I add also that this is the only place that looks positively at that match, and at the time that it happened, that match was treated by the IWC the same way that Bryan/Orton from Battleground was treated last year. I would not have a problem with a person giving Undertaker/Michaels three snowflakes. Why should others have a problem with that?

But to answer your question, yes everyone still loves Austin/Dude.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I would love to see original posts from the time of Taker/Brock. What's the consensus on Orton/Taker HIAC? Cause that's a matched I never really liked tbh. Always found Mania to be their best encounter.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I really liked the Orton/Taker HIAC but I still liked the WM one more. I remember liking the casket match a lot too.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

WM is phenomenal but it's probably my least favorite match in the Orton/Taker series from 2005. HIAC is fantastic and the best easily, then I love SummerSlam and the casket match. Not to overlook SD which is on par with WM.

Final Raw before Breakdown is almost finished. For some reason, Rock/Mankind/Shamrock triple threat is taking place here. I don't know if they actually have a match yet but they are booked again on the PPV in a steel cage and this is very 2013-14 esque booking of having a match take place the week before the PPV even though it happens again for the PPV.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Final Raw before Breakdown is almost finished. For some reason, Rock/Mankind/Shamrock triple threat is taking place here. I don't know if they actually have a match yet but they are booked again on the PPV in a steel cage and this is very 2013-14 esque booking of having a match take place the week before the PPV even though it happens again for the PPV.


I'm glad someone else noticed this because this made no sense at all. It happened again in 2006 with Mysterio and Booker T, and I think they even had a lengthy match to go along with that. Then there's Angle/Lesnar in 2003, but that had to do more with Angle's injury.

Summerslam > WM > Smackdown > Armageddon > Casket > 2002 for Orton/Taker. All of them very good.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I don't think Taker and Orton had a single match I'd rate under ***3/4 (haven't seen the Smackdown match though), they are all just fantastic pieces of work IMO. Really really dug the Casket match the last time I watched it, always loved their WM match, love their HiaC match although I think it would be even better with about 5 min trimmed off, and I haven't seen their SS match in ages but I'm certain it would still hold up.

I can't imagine there are less than 100 matches we could all agree on are worthy of atleast a ***3/4-**** rating. After all, most of us have seen a ton of WWE, WCW, AJPW, NJPW, and ROH stuff. I could probably take 30 minutes and list 100 matches and damn near guarantee not a single person would shit on them, there is just so much good wrestling out there. This thread pretty much opened my eyes to an entire different world of work, I hadn't seen really anything from Japan or the Indies before joining here. That's a huge positive in my book.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't recall Mysterio vs Booker happening before the PPV but I know the rematch took place on Smackdown the following week. Wont really count Angle vs Lesnar because they didn't actually have a match. Instead they did the thing with Angle's brother posing as him and the roll-up finish if I recall correctly.

Instead of doing something good, WWE takes the worst of the past and put it on today's product. From the G-rated gimmicks to giving away PPV matches on TV the week before (did it with Del Rio's WHC feuds last summer and recently with Reigns/Rollins). This also makes me realize that Cena has looked like a complete geek in the past month which is actually refreshing for a change. He was screwed out of the title at NOC with no sign of rematch (hopefully it remains that way) and not even getting at the man who cost him the match because he lost the contract on the pole match. :lol


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Shit, I need to go back and watch the Summerslam '05 one. I always forget it happened but it was probably really good.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Another one bites the dust.
> 
> Looks like ff has joined *the list* of members in this thread who always prevent themselves from enjoying a match by nitpicking every little thing. He's always been a bit on the border but I think he might've fully crossed over to the dark side now.


Release this list now.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Probably talking about Cody, Yeah and maybe even you, Carnage :side:

But instead of taking about with WARZ~ on unpopular opinions and whatnot, let's talk about matches that we all like. Like Austin/Benoit. Or Austin/Angle. Or Austin/Rock WM 17. Or Powertrip/Ben & Jerry's. Or Powertrip/BOD. Or Austin/HHH 3 Stages. Or Austin/Taker NHB. Or Team WWF/Team Alliance. Notice a pattern here? :austin in 2001 = King of the World.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Three Stages of Hell is not universally liked here. And you should talk about Bookdust instead.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm deadsure pretty much everyone I know likes it. I don't even know what Cody or Yeah think about it though, so that's where I'm basing such thought on.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Despite me not liking the first fall all that much........i still love 3SOH.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cal has it at ***1/4, Cody and Yeah don't care for it that much, and some other folks have it in the three star range. My view on Austin/Taker also dropped. Good match, but too long. There were lots of boring parts. They had a better match in 2001 on Smackdown.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

ATF said:


> I'm deadsure pretty much everyone I know likes it. I don't even know what Cody or Yeah think about it though, so that's where I'm basing such thought on.


it's shit mate


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not sure if anyone would be interested in this, but figured I'd upload it anyway. Can't see it getting any views from the guys in here.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k3ssBWlJ1dSMMH96Eep

8*D.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cal, that Owen/Bulldog dark match that was taped for IYH 1 was aired on the 5th June 1995 episode of Raw. I'll try and grab it to upload.

Also, never knew Benoit had tryouts at WWF in '95, the same days as the taping of this match apparently.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh it was on Raw? That's ok then, I have all 95 Raw on DVD .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)




----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> Cal, that Owen/Bulldog dark match that was taped for IYH 1 was aired on the 5th June 1995 episode of Raw. I'll try and grab it to upload.
> 
> Also, never knew Benoit had tryouts at WWF in '95, the same days as the taping of this match apparently.



Bret mentions it in his book, he said he was pushing Vince HARD to hire Benoit, and Vince actually considered it and brought him in for a tryout, but he told Benoit he wouldn't be able to wrestle in Japan anymore so Benoit went with WCW because they had a partnership with NJPW. The funny thing is that within a year WCW would tell Benoit he couldn't wrestle in Japan anymore, either, so he ended up getting screwed over for choosing WCW over WWE.

Oh well, atleast we got the fabulous Benoit/Eddie Best of Super Juniors 1996 bout out of it. We wouldn't have gotten that had he chosen WWE.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I've read Bret's book and either missed that bit or forgot about it lol.  I thought the same thing, if he went to WWE, he wouldn't be able to do another NJ run.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wasn't Benoit's tryout match against Owen Hart?

Just finished KOTR 93. Bret/Perfect is still PERFECT pretty much, and Bret/Bigelow is really good. Even though I knew Bret was winning, the false finish with Bam Bam announced as the winner still got me confused :lmao. Been so long since I saw the match I didn't remember that happening :lmao.

Might as well move on to the 94 KOTR now since the DVD is in the same case as 93. Kid/Jarrett, Kid/Owen, Bret/Diesel, Razor/Owen... should be fun!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Kid/Owen is like what, 4 minutes, but is still fucking great.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aye it's sub 5 minutes. I personally prefer their Raw re-match when they get more time, but it's still a super fun short sprint.


----------



## TheChoppingMachine (Mar 25, 2014)

Kid/Owen is an awesome sprint.
And thanks for the uploaded match now I know what I'll watch tonight. :mark:


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

Was watching TLC 2009 earlier.

Forgot that McIntyre used to have that generic ass theme :lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

TLC 2009 is a waste of time. That PPV sucks. If you wanna watch a good, forgotten PPV from that year, watch Bragging Rights.



Goku said:


> it's shit mate


Well now I stand corrected :side:

... but everybody still likes Austin/Dude, which is what matters 8*D


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

ATF said:


> Probably talking about Cody, Yeah and maybe even you, Carnage :side:


I don't get that though. It's not nitpicking if it's something that actively bothers me or makes me dislike the match. People have different tastes, and it works the opposite way too. I'm sure there's a fair few matches that I like more than anybody else, or at least more than most.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF, you are sort of there too.  But it seems you only do that when a match becomes unpopular here. Depending on the day, Cal could also be on that list. But even when his criticism is nonsensical, he manages to make it entertaining. :lol (see most of his anti-Chavo rambles)



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Bret mentions it in his book, he said he was pushing Vince HARD to hire Benoit, and Vince actually considered it and brought him in for a tryout, but he told Benoit he wouldn't be able to wrestle in Japan anymore so Benoit went with WCW because they had a partnership with NJPW. The funny thing is that within a year WCW would tell Benoit he couldn't wrestle in Japan anymore, either, so he ended up getting screwed over for choosing WCW over WWE.
> 
> Oh well, atleast we got the fabulous Benoit/Eddie Best of Super Juniors 1996 bout out of it. We wouldn't have gotten that had he chosen WWE.


Was he really screwed over by ending up in WCW? I think we got the best of both worlds with Benoit. He was in WCW for a few years and we got to see him participate in some great matches with Bret, DDP, Eddie and so on. Then he went to WWF and got to put on classic matches with the best they had to offer including HHH, Rock, Austin, Angle and so on. If only he had gotten a 20 minute match with Taker, though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Exactly. Although I didn't say you WERE part of that list (only C2D knows I guess ) but that's not the point. Everybody has different tastes and things they like and not. But I'm pretty sure C2D meant in the way that ff became a little 'colder' of sorts w/his tastes, if you get what I mean.

I think that sometimes it DOES get a little bothersome to see this thread being basically the unpopular opinions thread, since every once in a while you have a match that you and a lot of people like, and then BOOM somebody else comes in and says they don't. It happens quite frequently here. It's all down to personal opinion, but I personally find that the frequency that happens around here is a little over the top for my tastes. But who the hell am I to judge, I ain't going to murder someone for not thinking alike 

EDIT: I am? Wait, are we going back to the Angle/Benoit thing? I already made my mind on that, don't worry (more especifically the Royal Rumble - I'm SURE my final rating for it would be ***1/2, love the drama, love the competitivety, dislike very iffy selling) :lol

And in other cases of big unpopular matches, let's see... I think HBK/Angle WM 21 is great, I think the HBK/Jericho 2008 series is good (yes, even the Ladder match), and I like HBK/Austin WM 14 as well. I USED to be easily influenced, I recognize that. But I have matured as a poster, that's for sure. And I'm firm on what I personally find good or not. At least that's what I think


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I have literally no idea what my opinion on Angle/Benoit at the Rumble is. Would have to watch it again. I don't like Angle/Michaels. Pretty sure I would still like Michaels/Jericho JD and GAB. Unsanctioned and ladder both went to shit on recent viewings, and I never thought either of them were GREAT to begin with. There's good elements in both matches so I can see why someone would think they're good. I don't though. 



Choke2Death said:


> ATF, you are sort of there too.  But it seems you only do that when a match becomes unpopular here. Depending on the day, Cal could also be on that list. But even when *his criticism is nonsensical*, he manages to make it entertaining. :lol (see most of his anti-Chavo rambles)


My criticism is never nonsensical.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> My criticism is never nonsensical.


I never even mentioned you so I don't know why you came to that conclusion.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I never even mentioned you so I don't know why you came to that conclusion.


Had to differentiate myself from the likes of Cal.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I have no idea why anyone would want to do that :side:.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Because you hate Wade Barrett. There.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Survivor Series 1996

*Doug Furnas, Phil Lafon, and The Godwins w/Hillbilly Jim vs. Owen Hart, The British Bulldog, and The New Rockers*

I really liked the match a lot. While there are some guys in the match that I didn’t really want to see they didn’t last long and the majority of the match was Owen and Bulldog working with Furnas and Lafon. The pins on the other guys were all exciting enough. Furnas and Lafon were making their debut I think and they were made to look really impressive. A good chunk of the match at the end was Owen and Bulldog isolating Furnas. Bulldog got pinned on a roll up and you could tell from the reaction that the crowd really wasn’t expecting that to happen. Before he left the ring Bulldog took out his knee and Owen kept the isolation going and we saw some really good selling. The hot tag was great as Lafon came in and hit some amazing looking suplexes that Owen sold perfectly. I’ve watched a lot of shows from this time period and the tag division was awful. This seemed like a great step in the right direction. Furnas and Lafon were really good and meshed well with Owen and Davey. Everyone did a good job not ruining the match.
**** *


*The Undertaker vs. Mankind w/Paul Bearer *

What an amazing match. I’m not sure of there is a more perfect mix of characters than Mankind and the Undertaker. Undertaker got in a ton of offense and really just beat the shit out of Foley for a good chunk of the match. Foley got his offense in and he did it like a mad man. Every Foley match seems to have a bump that he takes that just makes you cringe, the more you see Foley wrestle the more you realize that it’s a miracle that he’s still doing OK. Anyway Undertaker beats the shit out of Foley and Foley keeps fighting and you get the impression that the Undertaker just wants to say, “What the fuck am I supposed to do?” While watching the match it’s amazing when you realize that this is the Undertaker that’s in the ring with Foley and he’s killing him and he still can’t keep him down. The story they told was amazing and when Undertaker finally did put Mankind away it seemed like he really accomplished something while Foley looked amazing for surviving for so long. I can’t believe this went on second.
******


*Hunter Hearst Helmsley, Goldust, Crush, and Jerry ‘The King” Lawler w/Marlena vs. “Wildman” Marc Mero, The Stalker, Rocky Maivia, and Jake “The Snake” Roberts*

Why is Barry Windham wrestling as the Stalker and why is the Stalker a babyface? And why are the commentators just calling him Barry Windham? Sunny was on commentary for the match and I was really impressed by her. It’s not that she was the world’s best commentator or anything but she clearly gets it. She knows how to be a heel and she knows how to explain what the heels are doing. I do have to say that this is a pretty amusing cast of characters for a Survivor Series match. Everyone has heard about this match before because it was the Rock’s debut. I just have to say that I’m glad Vince saw something in him because I really didn’t. He didn’t seem any better than any other generic babyface. You may notice that I haven’t really talked about the match, that’s true and I’ve done that intentionally. The match was bad, I don’t want to talk about it.
***



*“Stone Cold” Steve Austin vs. Bret “Hitman” Hart*

I don’t know where to begin or end with this one. It’s just a masterpiece and I don’t think my review will be able to do it justice. So the main story that we’re looking at is the brash, young, upstart heel trying to beat the established babyface. Austin shows no respect to Bret in the slightest and you can see how Bret reacts to it and you can really feel that he’s getting more and more angry with Austin as the match goes on. Bret first tries to take him to the mat and outwrestle him, which works for a little while but Austin is still talking shit and showing Hart no respect. Austin eventually gains the upperhand in the match when he hits his first throwback to his pre “Stone Cold” days, a Stun Gun. Austin takes control of the match and works the neck area. It’s all well done and you feel the animosity growing. Then there is this awesome moment where Hart tries to fire up as he starts throwing punches. Austin throws punch right back and gets the best of Hart. It was such a great moment in the match and made you realize how serious Austin needed to be taken. 

There’s just so many layers to the match. It’s really amazing that they were able to put something like this together. It’s almost too much to handle as there is just so much going on in the match with the characters. I’ve seen this quite a few times now and every time I see it it’s like watching it for the first time again. I don’t think I ever noticed before how Bret’s mindset changed throughout the match but this time it stuck out like crazy to me. He’s cool and collective to start things off, then starts to get pissed, then gets really pissed, he loses control, and finally he realizes that this isn’t the time to beat respect into Austin because he’s doing everything he can to not get pinned by the guy. This is just one of those matches where the more wrestling that I see the more I can appreciate this. 
*****¾* 


*Farooq, Vader, Fake Diesel, and Fake Razor vs. Yokozuna, Flash Funk, Savio Vega, and Jimmy Snuka* 

There was a pretty unimpressive match that ended with 6 people left in the match when the ref DQed everyone. There was some cool stuff in the match that made it decent. Snuka body slammed Vader which I thought was really impressive. Fake Razor was comically bad so that was a plus. Flash Funk was also impressive. I wish they had just let Vader and Flash Funk have a singles match because they had really good chemistry and were entertaining when they were in the ring together. Not the worst thing ever and you did need to put something between Austin/Hart and Michaels/Sid.
**½* 



_WWF Championship Match:_
*Shawn Michaels(c) w/Jose Lothario vs. Sycho Sid *

What a strange match. The crowd is red hot for Sid and he gets more over as the match wears. At times Shawn seems to be embracing the boos (at one point he spit into the crowd) and at others he’s back to playing the pure face. You have the always fun dynamic of Shawn trying to use his quickness against a much bigger guy and the going after the leg. All of that was well done but Sid didn’t sell the leg in the slightest. But even with the bad selling they had a fun match that built to a really exciting conclusion. The crowd was going insane when Sid was getting offense in at the end of the match. Then Sid hits Jose in the chest with a camera for no reason, he acts like he’s having a heart attack, nobody helps the poor guy, and then Sid wins because Shawn is distracted. I get that Shawn didn’t want to put Sid over clean but it really would have been so much better if he had. I also just wish Sid didn’t suck, this could have been great if Shawn was in there was at least a competent worker.
***¾ *​You can’t really complain about a show that has 2 great matches and a couple of good ones.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bret/Austin is indeed a masterpiece, a perfect percusuer to their WM match. The wrestling, the story, it's like those two were born to have that feud, it fitted as well as anything. Perfect.

Shame we didn't get a Vader/HBK rematch though (yeah thanks Shawn), but the Sid match was ok, something I need to rewatch tbh.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

30 (mostly recent) WWE MATCHES EVERYONE AGREES ARE REALLY GOOD



Punk/Cena MitB 2011
Punk/Cena Raw 2013
Punk/Lesnar Summerslam
Cena/Bryan Summerslam
Wyatt/Bryan Royal Rumble 2014
Mysterio/Eddie Smackdown 2005
Regal/Benoit Velocity 2006
Regal/Benoit Velocity 2005
Shield vs Ryback & Team Hell No
Austin/Regal Smackdown 2001 (strap match)
Ohno/Regal NXT
Regal/Cesaro NXT
Regal/Ambrose FCW 1
Regal/Ambrose FCW 2
Lesnar/Cena Extreme Rules 2012
Sheamus/Cesaro (that one time they had a good match somewhere ages ago)
Zayn/Cesaro NXT ArRIVAL
Zayn/Cesaro 2/3 falls
Cesaro/Kingston (In Your House: Hell Frozen Over Main Event)
Rhodes Bros vs The Shield PPV
Rhodes Vs The Shield Raw
HHH vs Cactus Jack (I bet I'm the low-voter here tho)
Michaels/Undertaker Wrestlemania
Cena/Umaga LMS
Ziggler/Alberto Payback
Cena/Punk Raw 2011
Bryan/Punk OTL
Henry/Bryan Smackdown cage
Eddie/JBL JD 2004
Eddie/Lesnar



Add to it or continue proving this thread is "the unpopular opinion" thread. W/e. I'm off out to try put my dick into something that isn't my hand and, most probably, down my sorrows due to failing at this.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I haven't seen all of those but out of the ones that I have seen I have nothing bad to say about those matches.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Austin/Hart Survivor Series '96. Now there's a match that everyone likes.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cena/Umaga LMS sucks. Sorry Rah.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Of the matches. I've seen, all of the I'd call "very good", although I'm lower than most I've seen on Wyatt/Bryan from the Rumble. Also Cesaro and Sheamus have had 3 really good matches (Main Event last year, Payback and NOC this year) but I think I'm lower than most on those as well.

Also I think you can add Wyatts/Shield EC to the matches everyone loves (unless it's there and I just keep missing it).


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rah said:


> 30 (mostly recent) WWE MATCHES EVERYONE AGREES ARE REALLY GOOD
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A few more added there.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

"Orton/Benoit 2 out of 3 falls" The fuck is that match?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Edited for fucking up the name of the gimmick there Whatcha talking about, Callis? :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*slow clap*

So started KOTR 94. Oh man, forgot the GOAT guest commentator was on this show :lmao. HOW MUCH DOES DIS GUY WEIGHT? GORILLA, IS HE DEAD? IS HE ONE OF THE WRESTLERS?

Razor/Bigelow was good stuff. Totally skipped IRS/Mabel because IRS in his IRS gimmick was more headlock-y than Orton has ever been and far, far worse with them too (Orton at least used the headlock effectively a bunch of times). Kid/Jarrett next.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Speaking of Randy Orton and headlocks, Orton/Mysterio SD '06 should be on the list of WWE MATCHES EVERYBODY AGREES ARE REALLY GOOD.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cross out Austin/Regal. I think it's good, but I would put something like the Ziggler/Orton match on RAW this week above it.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Not a regular in this thread but I'm not a fan of the Punk-Henry series...


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Rah said:


> 30 (mostly recent) WWE MATCHES EVERYONE AGREES ARE REALLY GOOD
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just added a whole bunch and there is easily 30+ more I could add. This thread doesn't have as many contrarians as one would normally think.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Watching these older shows, the pacing of some of these matches are way off. I'm not one that thinks every match needs to be great or 15 mins long. Some guys aren't capable of having a good 15 min match and shouldn't have been asked to. The trade off is more filler but I would rather have some good promos then a match drag ten mins too long.

Just a random thought. I've also been noticing this in the three hour raws. I love the wrestling aspect, but that doesn't mean every six man tag needs to go thru a commercial break or every Ziggler match. How bout developing the angles instead of trying to have faux PPV quality matches every week?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Cross out Austin/Regal. I think it's good, but I would put something like the Ziggler/Orton match on RAW this week above it.


Ziggler/Orton was just like Jericho/Orton from NOC. Just average.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

All faith is restored. After two "meh" Brock main event performances, I think I'm on the Brock/Taker HIAC 2002 MOTY train. Only two other HIAC matches I like more. Might be my favorite Brock performance ever. Even Undertaker's poor selling didn't bother me that much.





RatedR10 said:


> Ziggler/Orton was just like Jericho/Orton from NOC. Just average.


Goes to show how I think of that strap match. They're all around *****. I never saw the big deal in Austin/Regal's strap match. Like it's good, but just because it's Regal brawling in the crowd doesn't mean it makes it a really good match.



Lazyking said:


> Just a random thought. I've also been noticing this in the three hour raws. I love the wrestling aspect, but that doesn't mean every six man tag needs to go thru a commercial break or every Ziggler match. How bout developing the angles instead of trying to have faux PPV quality matches every week?


Here's the problem with that. Three hours is a REALLY long time. And then you add on Main Event and Smackdown. It's just not physically possible to develop angles with all this television show without them going stale after a couple weeks. Yeah, it would be nice to have more segments that build up programs. But segments take up five minutes while a six man tag takes up fifteen. There are just not enough segments to fill up that time. You need matches in a three hour program.

For as much as we criticize creative (and rightfully so), they have a very difficult job that we don't take into account. In one week, they need to construct six hours of programming. Six hours where they have to develop multiple programs and build up PPVs. That's unprecedented. And on top of that, they need to deal with the bureaucracy of WWE management and the morale of the wrestlers themselves. Then you have last minute rewrites. And the worst obstacle of all happens to be the man that writes their paycheck. Yes, there are some absolute dumbass ideas coming out of creative, but simply using buzzwords like "developing the angles" and "building up feuds" is easy to say but hard to do. By all accounts, former writers have said that they are self-aware of the garbage spewing out of their area. But when a geriatric that thinks sneezing is an inhumane behavior is dictating everything, what can you do?

The only solution I can think of that can efficiently allocate all this work is to bring back the brand split. I'm not entirely sure how to reconstruct the rosters if we were to see that happen again, but that could be a fun exercise.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I'm not saying it's easy but really, Raw is the only show that even tries to develop the angles and even if you need those six man tags to stretch out the show, I wish it wouldn't be the same people over and over. They have people on the roster that they simply choose not to use. It's a roster depth issue with over worked creative. Bad combo.

I wouldn't mind a brand split, but I'm not willing to sacrifice one World champion to get it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

FUN TIME!



Spoiler: how many of these would I call at least ***3/4?



Punk/Cena MitB 2011 - Thought it was great when it happened and haven't watched it since. Pretty sure it's at least ***3/4.
Punk/Cena Raw 2013 - Never watched it.
Punk/Lesnar Summerslam - never watched it.
Cena/Bryan Summerslam - never watched it.
Wyatt/Bryan Royal Rumble 2014 - never watched it.
Mysterio/Eddie Smackdown 2005 - Duh ***3/4++++.
Regal/Benoit Velocity 2006 - don't think so, unless you meant No Mercy.
Regal/Benoit Velocity 2005 - probably ***3/4, if not then bordering.
Shield vs Ryback & Team Hell No - I only watched it live and I almost never appreciate a match until I don't watch it live.
Ohno/Regal NXT - never watched it.
Regal/Cesaro NXT - Really good but not sure.
Regal/Ambrose FCW 1 - More than likely.
Regal/Ambrose FCW 2 - I didn't think so, but maybe if I watched it again?
Lesnar/Cena Extreme Rules 2012 - Yeah.
Sheamus/Cesaro (that one time they had a good match somewhere ages ago) - Main Event mid-last year? I think I'd consider it ***3/4. SD match after that isn't **too** far behind.
Zayn/Cesaro NXT ArRIVAL - Never saw it.
Zayn/Cesaro 2/3 falls - never saw it (don;t think I did, anyway).
Cesaro/Kingston (In Your House: Hell Frozen Over Main Event) - Maaaaaaybe. Probably not, but it'd be a close ***1/2.
Rhodes Bros vs The Shield PPV - never saw it?
Rhodes Vs The Shield Raw - never saw it?
HHH vs Cactus Jack (I bet I'm the low-voter here tho) - Yeah.
Michaels/Undertaker Wrestlemania - Yeah.
Ziggler/Alberto Payback - never saw it.
Cena/Punk Raw 2011 - Don't think so but I don't even remember when this happened.
Bryan/Punk OTL - Yep.
Henry/Bryan Smackdown cage - More than likely, but won't say definitely yes.
Eddie/JBL JD 2004 - I never liked this match all that much. One of my most fond wrestling board memories is when I said "I don't get the Eddie/JBL cage" and Andy responded with "buy it then, cunt."
Eddie/Lesnar - Nope.
Eddie/Mysterio Halloween Havoc - Obviously.
Eddie/Big Show Smackdown 2004 - Easily.
Eddie/Tajiri vs WGTT SD 2003 - 5/22/03, yeah.
Austin vs Dude Love OTE 1998 - Yep.
Owen vs Shamrock Lions Den SS 1998 - Not ***3/4 but should have been if they got ten+ minutes.
Brock vs Benoit SD 2003 - Yeah.
Benoit vs Austin SD 2001 - Smokes ***3/4.
Benoit vs Austin Raw 2001 - Bordering on it, if not.
Henry vs Punk Raw 2012 - Bordering on it, if not.
Punk vs Bryan OTL 2012 - Already listed.
Shield vs Wyatt's EC 2014 - never saw it.
Orton vs Benoit SD 1/16/06 - Yep.
Orton vs Benoit SD 1/27/06 - Nah, but really good anyway.
Orton vs Mysterio SD 4/2/06 - Easily.
Orton vs Foley Backlash 2004 - Honestly, no. Re-watched it once and didn't really love it. Watched it again (maybe twice more) after that and still came out thinking the same thing. I still like the match but I don't think it's excellent or anything.
Taker vs Angle SD 2003 - Yep.
Taker vs Angle NWO 2006 - Probably.
Eddie vs Mysterio JD 2005 - Yep.
Eddie vs Mysterio GAB 2005 - yep.
Eddie vs Benoit Armageddon 2002 - I remember nothing about this. Definitely seen it but it was five years ago.
Austin vs Bret WM 13 - Yeah.
Austin vs Bret SVS 1996 - Yes.
Vader vs HBK SS 1996 - Not sure.
Mankind vs HBK IYH 1996 - Duh.
Mankind vs Taker IYH Revenge of the Taker 1997 - Don't remember it.
Mankind vs Taker KotR 1996 - Don't really remember it.
Mankind vs Taker KotR 1998 - Has a shot but IDK.
Shawn Michaels vs Taker HiaC Badd Blood 1997 - Yeah.
Regal vs Finlay Uncensored 1996 - Yep.
Finlay vs Benoit JD 2006 - Obviously.
Finlay vs Benoit Slamboree 1998 - More than likely.
Finlay vs Benoit SD 2006 - 5/5 I'd put at around ****1/4. 11/24 is probably ***3/4 too.
Eddie vs Jericho Fall Brawl 1997 - Easily.
Jericho vs Mysterio The Bash 2009 - Nah. 
Vader vs Steamboat Human Cage Saturday Night 1993 - Be surprised if it wasn't ***3/4
Austin vs Steamboat COTC 1994 - Don't think I'd call this ***3/4, but it is really good. BATB 94 and Clash 9/2/92 are ***3/4 or above, though.
Steamboat vs Rude Ironman Beach Blast 1992 - Classic.
WarGames 1991 - Yeah.
WarGames 1992 - Duh.
Zybysko/Anderson/Eaton vs Steamboat/Rhodes/Koloff 2/3 Falls Saturday Night 1992 - uses ***3/4 as toilet paper.
Windham/Pillman vs Steamboat/Douglass Starrcade 1992 - Easily.
Vader vs Flair Starrcade 1993 - This is the WCW match that I have the biggest worry when it comes to holding up as a great match, but I thought it was way better than ***3/4 a while back, so IDK.
Flair vs Steamboat (all 3 matches from 1989) - duh.
Flair vs Funk GAB 1989 - duh.
Flair vs Funk I Quit - duh.
Southern Boys vs Midnighr Express GAB 1990 - Obv BOBBY EATON.
Midnight Express vs Rock n Roll Express WrestleWar 1990 - Yep.
Big Show vs Sheamus HiaC 2012 - Would have to watch it again, but has a shot.
Bret vs Owen WM 10 - This could go down a star from my previous opinion and I'd still think it's ***3/4+.
Bret vs Owen Action Zone 1994- Used to love it, have no idea what I'd think of it now.
Bret vs Perfect SS 1991 - Used to love it, have no idea what I'd think of it now.
Bret vs Perfect KotR 1993 - Pretty confident I'd still think this is ***3/4+.
Lesnar vs Angle SS 2003 - I couldn't finish this the last time I tried to watch it but I'll pretend I don't have an opinion on it.
Lesnar vs Angle Ironman SD 2003 - wouldn't call it ***3/4 at all, but I liked it all right.
Austin vs Angle SS 2001 - Yeah.

Yes to Cena/Umaga which isn't on there but was on Rah's first list, and haven't seen Austin/Regal strap match. If the criteria is "really good" then almost all of those should make it (the one's I've seen, anyway). Like I went down on Eddie/Lesnar and Orton/Foley and Rey/Jericho but I'm pretty sure I thought they were still "really good".


Well more than 30 out of that group for me.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Dont really read this thread anymore, but caught the last few pages so I'll bite

1) Agree 100 % w/ FF on Brock/Rock ss 02, good not "great"

2) Watched Edge/Foley mania last night , kinda went down, not as good as I remember felt like Foley was just doing bumps to do them, idk might just be me. Hate edge

3) Brand Split I'd like to see, maybe cut back on all the extra shows, ( only have NXT - Main event with Raw/SD) Have no problem w/ TWO main belts, this isnt a real sport and there are guy that will never see the main event scene how it is



Looking at the lists, Eddie/Lesnar is probably another one were good "not great" IMO, also really doesnt matter if people agree with other, the beauty of wrestling is subjectivity, who cares ?



Edit: Also watched Ziggler/ADR for probably the 20x and safe to say if Punk/lesnar didnt happen, MOTY ****1/2-3/4 range for STARZ


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

The problem I have with two world champions is because one will be booked to look "lesser" then then the other. If they could do a brand split, keep rosters seperate and treat both champions as equal then I'd be for it.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

ATF said:


> TLC *2009* is a waste of time. That PPV sucks. If you wanna watch a good, forgotten PPV from that year, watch *Bragging Rights*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is that the one with the Ziggler-Bryan match?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

No the one with Ziggler/Bryan was 2010. I remember because that's right around the time I came back to watching.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

After reading Jericho's new book I decided to completely rewatch all 4 of the PPV matches for the Jericho/Michaels feud. I have to say, my opinion has changed drastically about these matches and the feud as a whole. Before I thought the feud was really good and the matches were "okay" but not the epics everyone made them out to be. Now, I still think the feud was really good and the matches themselves are GREAT. I thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed reliving this feud. All the petty gripes I had before are gone, what I just experienced was true greatness.

My ratings:

Judgement Day: ****1/4
Great American Bash: ****
Unforgiven: ****1/4
No Mercy: ***3/4

The biggest change of opinion for me, BY FAR, was the Unsanctioned match at Unforrgiven. Holy crap I don't know what I was missing before but for whatever reason the match completely "clicked" this time around. I got it. Shawn was absolutely perfect here, his punches looked better than in any I can recall from his second run, and he did an unbelievable job making the emotion in this match feel real. Jericho had legitimately PUNCHED HIS WIFE IN THE FACE. Any man can relate to wanting to get revenge on a guy who did that. This match was pretty much 90% Shawn beating the ever loving shit out of Chris, and that's what this feud called for after such an emotional moment at Summerslam. By far the best part of this match was Shawn dropping to the ground and crying after he had demolished Jericho and Cade with that elbow through the table. That was some beautiful story telling, Shawn realized no matter how badly he beat Chris it wouldn't take back the hurt Chris had inflicted on Shawn's family. It was the perfect moment. Shawn's acting can certainly be hammy at times but he just NAILED the emotion for this match. Wouldn't have changed anything he did.

Jericho for the most part served as a tackling dummy for Shawn. I mean he really got his ass BEAT. He bumped and sold damn well for Shawn's offense, and the use of Cade in an Unsactioned Match was a smart heel tactic. Also liked that once Cade came out and Chris really got his first chance to go on offense, he went right for the injured tricep of Shawn and used it to keep him down. Some people will bitch that Jericho didn't attack Shawn's arm when he was on offense for like 2 minutes back towards the beggining of the match, but I don't see it. Shawn had been just murdering Chris with punches so when he got his chance to get a few shots in, he went for the kill with high impact moves.

The finish, while nonsensical to have a ref stoppage in an Unsactioned match, gets a pass from me as you can kinda sorta explain it. The ref is still a person, Shawn was showing no intent on pinning Chris or making him tap, he was just trying to kill Chris, the ref stopped the match before someone was sent to the hospital or died, something he didn't want on his conscience. Shawn was the clear victor and if he wouldn't pin Chris the ref had no choice but to stop it or else risk someone dying in the ring. Or something. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

So yea all in all the Judgement Day bout was the best of the 4 from a pure wrestling perspective, the Great American Bash match was the most brutal, and the Unsactioned match at Unforgiven was the best from a story telling perspective. Only match that doesn't reach "great" status is the No Mercy ladder match. While that match is still really, really good there are few flaws that keep it from reaching the heights of the other 3 in the series.

That's all I got, folks.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Excellent work from cjack. Might be my favorite thing from this edition of the thread.

Unsanctioned matches in the WWE tend to have refs that contribute a "humanized" point of view. I watched HHH/Michaels from Summerslam a couple days ago, and that match was filled with Earl Hebner urging HHH to stop brutalizing Shawn. He even goes as far as to break up a hold that HHH was doing even though the match is "Unsanctioned". It makes little sense, but rules in wrestling don't tend to make sense. It does add a nice contrast though.

That 2008 run though is the best evidence you can put of why Jericho is a candidate for GOAT heel in wrestling. At this point in his career, Jericho was reaching that status where fans (especially the adult fans/smarks) did not want to boo him because he was perceived as a legend by this point. I don't necessarily use boos as a way to quantify the level of a heel, but Jericho was so damn good at getting fans to cheer for whoever he was facing, whether it was Shawn Michaels, Evan Bourne, or JTG. Put him with anyone on the roster and Jericho's opponent would be over simply because they're facing Jericho. And this isn't a quality that he only expressed in that 2008-2009 run. He showed it to us in 1998 where he made Dean Malenko into the most over guy on the roster. He did it in 2002-2003 when he would give Maven and Goldust the best reactions of their career. The single most important quality in a heel, and Jericho understood how to put over a face as good as anyone in this business.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Watch the LMS match on Raw too. That was the official closer to the Jericho/HBK feud and another good match in the series.

I'm not a super mark for either guy but I'm not gonna prevent myself from enjoying their matches if I have fun with them.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> That 2008 run though is the best evidence you can put of why Jericho is a candidate for GOAT heel in wrestling. At this point in his career, Jericho was reaching that status where fans (especially the adult fans/smarks) did not want to boo him because he was perceived as a legend by this point. I don't necessarily use boos as a way to quantify the level of a heel, but Jericho was so damn good at getting fans to cheer for whoever he was facing, whether it was Shawn Michaels, Evan Bourne, or JTG. Put him with anyone on the roster and Jericho's opponent would be over simply because they're facing Jericho. And this isn't a quality that he only expressed in that 2008-2009 run. He showed it to us in 1998 where he made Dean Malenko into the most over guy on the roster. He did it in 2002-2003 when he would give Maven and *Goldust the best reactions of their career.* The single most important quality in a heel, and Jericho understood how to put over a face as good as anyone in this business.


when was this?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Watch the LMS match on Raw too. That was the official closer to the Jericho/HBK feud and another good match in the series.
> 
> I'm not a super mark for either guy but I'm not gonna prevent myself from enjoying their matches if I have fun with them.



Ah I didn't even know this match existed, I will definitely have to find the date I took place and check it out. Jericho and Michaels also had a pretty awesome match on Raw in 2003 if I'm not mistaken. I still think their WM 19 match was the best match they ever had, but damn I really love that Unsanctioned match now. I don't understand why it doesn't receive more love. I was watching it intently and everything seemed right on the money. I mean Shawn Michaels was throwing pretty damn good punches the entire time, something he didn't do much of at all in his second run. That match was one of Shawn's finest hours for me, he took offense for about 90% of a 25-30 minute match and made it wildly entertaining, thrilling, and kept me emotionally invested the entire time. That's no easy feat, especially considering he's the baby face and not a dastardly heel doing a scorching work over segment. I think Jericho was probably the better performer in all of the other matches they had, even though Shawn was excellent, but Shawn took things to a level I didn't realize he had at Unforgiven 2008.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Watching Halloween Havoc 92 and man, Rick Rude was such a good worker, obviously but he's one of those guys that you say what if he didn't get a career ending injury. He was still in his prime and he might still be with us. shame.

Should say the match with Chono really drags and has a bad finish but still, Rude is the man lol.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I am so sorry that you had to watch that PPV. All three main event matches on that show are worse than the worst Khali matches.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Yeah, gotta bite the bullet to get thru the marathon though lol. Rhodes/Windham vs. Williams/Austin was pretty good. Rhodes and Austin had great chemistry together.

Barbarian getting a World title shot, that's when I knew it would be bad.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think that might have been the PPV where Jesse Ventura said the funniest thing I ever heard on commentary. He said that he didn't like Shane Douglas because he "seems like a right wing Republican" :lmao

It took me 12 years, but I finally love Benoit/Eddie from Armageddon 2002. This was the one Smackdown Six match that they didn't do at the time. Thank goodness they saved it for a PPV.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Only WCW wouldn't rig a wheel to get a better match for Jake and Sting to work. Only WCW would have a Coal miners glove match, period. "you can still win the match without the glove" lmao comical.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ad Infinitum said:


> Is that the one with the Ziggler-Bryan match?


Nope. That would be 2010.

2009 is the one headlined by the Orton/Cena Iron Man match 8*D - don't worry, the whole card is good (especially Morrison/Miz and the Fatal 4-Way). And if you like a good ol' spotfest w/Cena/Batista LMS traits, the Iron Man match won't bother you.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

I really like the Cena-Orton ironman match.

Haven't seen it in a while but would probably go about ***3/4-****.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Kid/Jarrett from KOTR 94 was a fun, solid match. Bret/Diesel rocked the world. Unless I'm forgetting a match, I think Nash's top 3 matches are all with Bret lol. Top 5 would be rounded out with the action zone tag and WM match with Taker. Kid/Owen is still a super fun 4 minute sprint, but I still prefer their rematch on Raw. Razor/Owen finals match up next.

After watching all this good/fun stuff, I might finally get back to those 2007 PPV Rambles.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Decided to Network binge today with some Old School stuff (one of the main reasons why I got it) and started with Starrcade '84. The majority of the card sucked except for one match that I have definitely slept on. 

Tully Blanchard vs Ricky Steamboat. Holy shit is this match amazing. This match is everything that solidifies 80's NWAs GOAT status. There is some inconsistency with the rib work but man do these guys bring everything else to the table. There is an element of drama and emotion that today's wrestling simply lacks and this match exemplifies it. What I like the most about this match is that it isn't the typical heel beats on the babyface for hours. As a matter of fact, it's the other way around. Sure, it's sort of predictable. You knew eventually Blanchard would have to resort to underhanded tactics, but it's the way they do it. Everything about this match is just great. From the structure to the pacing, heck, there were moments in this match where it looked like a damn real fight. The timing of some of Steamboats blows to counter Blanchard's was perfect. Maybe it's because I've never seen anyone else hype it up, but this is definitely a gem of a match that needs to be talked about more. ******


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Nearly done with watching 2002. My choice for MOTY is one that nobody will ever guess. Except MAYBE Yeah1993. But it is a very unique choice.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Dude, I'm going crazy trying to figure out your unusual MOTY :lol

Is it Rock/Hogan?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Is it a tag match? And not a Smackdown tag.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Nearly done with watching 2002. My choice for MOTY is one that nobody will ever guess. Except MAYBE Yeah1993. But it is a very unique choice.


Vitamin C vs BookDust? Jericho vs Goldust IC title? Surely it's not the Bangle/Redge tag...I'm a huge supporter of that bout but I know a lot of people in here aren't,

At any rate, if it's not Brock vs Taker HiaC, Taker/Hardy Ladder match, or Rocky/Taker/Angle Vengeance I'm really not sure what you are getting at. For my money Taker/Brock NM is far and away the best offering from 2002, the other 2 matches I mentioned are the only ones that come anywhere near that match. So I'm curious what you chose, and why you think it's better than those 3 matches.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Vitamin C vs BookDust? Jericho vs Goldust IC title? Surely it's not the Bangle/Redge tag...I'm a huge supporter of that bout but I know a lot of people in here aren't,
> 
> At any rate, if it's not Brock vs Taker HiaC, Taker/Hardy Ladder match, or Rocky/Taker/Angle Vengeance I'm really not sure what you are getting at. For my money *Taker/Brock NM is far and away the best offering from 2002*, the other 2 matches I mentioned are the only ones that come anywhere near that match. So I'm curious what you chose, and why you think it's better than those 3 matches.


I thought I was the only person who found that better than the HIAC match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The best Booker/Goldust v. Christian/Jericho might be my 02 WWE MOTY. It's not a blow-away, though, and MOTY could really be any of three of four matches. Not a year for great matches, really, I wouldn't call any WWE match of 02 "four stars". Been a while since I've seen some of the stuff I used to love in 2002, though.



Ad Infinitum said:


> I thought I was the only person who found that better than the HIAC match.


That is the HIAC.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

The Elimination Chamber from Survivor Series? Brock-Hogan?

Brock-Taker HIAC is the best WWE match ever IMO.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> The best Booker/Goldust v. Christian/Jericho might be my 02 WWE MOTY. It's not a blow-away, though, and MOTY could really be any of three of four matches. Not a year for great matches, really, I wouldn't call any WWE match of 02 "four stars". Been a while since I've seen some of the stuff I used to love in 2002, though.
> 
> 
> 
> That is the HIAC.



You said yesterday you hadn't seen it so if you ever get in the mood to watch some Eddie check out Eddie vs Benoit Armageddon 2002. Fucking bad ass match that would easily crack **** for me. Eddie is full blown heel here as opposed to the tweener status he had in their classic at Vengeance 2003, so there is a difference in how it's worked. I also really dug more than most the Los Guerreros vs Benoit/Angle tag from Rebellion 2002. There are a few other notable matches from 2002 but on the whole you're correct in saying it didn't have a plethora (of pinatas) or of top flight, classic matches. 2003 and 2004 would be a noticeable step up in that regard.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*IYH: Breakdown*

Owen Hart vs Edge - ★★½ (A nice sub-10 minute sprint)
Bradshaw vs Vader - ★★¼ (The type of match this thread kills for. Was legit shocked at the finisher kick-outs.)
The Rock vs Mankind vs Ken Shamrock - ★★★¾ (Now this is what it's about! Awesome throughout and DAMN is The Rock over here!)
Stone Cold vs Undertaker vs Kane - ★★½ (Largely dull because it's mostly a glorified handicap match and the BOD workovers drag and are boring. Picks up whenever Kane/Taker attack each other and Austin fights back)

Skipped the rest cause I don't care. Main events for this year have not been all that. Only Over the Edge is really on that other level with the casket match from RR and Unforgiven coming next and the rest being average at best.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> You said yesterday you hadn't seen it so if you ever get in the mood to watch some Eddie check out Eddie vs Benoit Armageddon 2002. Fucking bad ass match that would easily crack **** for me. Eddie is full blown heel here as opposed to the tweener status he had in their classic at Vengeance 2003, so there is a difference in how it's worked. I also really dug more than most the Los Guerreros vs Benoit/Angle tag from Rebellion 2002. There are a few other notable matches from 2002 but on the whole you're correct in saying it didn't have a plethora (of pinatas) or of top flight, classic matches. 2003 and 2004 would be a noticeable step up in that regard.



2003 isn't that much better for me for great matches. I'd have Angle/Taker, Lesnar/Benoit and EddieTajiri/Team Angle 5/22 over any 2002 match but I don't think anything else is at that level unless I'm not thinking hard enough. 2004 steps it up. I'd probably put Eddie/JBL JD, Eddie/Show, Rey/Noble, Rey/Chavo GAB, Orton/Benoit 8/16 and maybe Rey/Eddie > any WWE match of 02 and 03.

Last time I watched Eddie/Benoit from Armageddon or Vengeance was probably 2009.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> 2003 isn't that much better for me for great matches. I'd have Angle/Taker, Lesnar/Benoit and EddieTajiri/Team Angle 5/22 over any 2002 match but I don't think anything else is at that level unless I'm not thinking hard enough. 2004 steps it up. I'd probably put Eddie/JBL JD, Eddie/Show, Rey/Noble, Rey/Chavo GAB, Orton/Benoit 8/16 and maybe Rey/Eddie > any WWE match of 02 and 03.
> 
> Last time I watched Eddie/Benoit from Armageddon or Vengeance was probably 2009.


From 2003, along with the excellent matches you listed, I thought Lesnar/Angle SS, Eddie/Benoit Vengeance, Austin/Rock WM 19, Jericho/HBK WM 19, Tajiri/Mysterio SD, Hardy/Mysterio SD, and Angle/Cena NM all reached that upper echelon of ****+ matches. Probably could thrown Vince/Hogan WM 19 in there too as I love that match to bits. Mysterio if I recall had a pretty incredible year on Smackdown, you might even be able to toss in his match with Lesnar, and I believe he had an excellent match with Taker, too.

From 2002 one match I totally slept on was the Bangle/Redge/Los Guerreros SVS triple threat tag. That match is friggin brilliant, probably one of the top 2-3 tags for the entire year. Oh, and Mysterio/Angle from SS 02' is probably my favorite sub 10 minute match ever.

Moral of the story kids, Mysterio vs anyone up until 2012 or so was pretty much guarunteed worthy of watching.

P.s. You forgot Eddie/Lesnar as one of the very best matches of 2004. Unless you're not a fan of that match...can't imagine that's the case, though.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rey/Brock and the Rey/Tajiris (1/1/04 even technically was 2003 b/c of SD being pre-taped) are all fucking awesome. I need to do a big catch up of 2003 Rey because everything I've seen is great, but there is a bunch I haven't seen or don't remember. The Rey/Kidman v. Team Angle tags I'm not sure I've ever seen. When's the Rey/Hardy on SD? Forgot the Lesnar/Show stretcher match which is probably PPV MOTY.

Eddie/Lesnar had a middle section that didn't interest me. Kind of the same situation of Orton/Foley where it didn't hold up one day and then trying to watch it again gave me the same feeling. Rock/Austin I'm not the biggest fan of. Pointless as hell leg work that went nowhere and it felt more like they were trying to create a moment than letting it come naturally (WMX7). Michaels/Jericho is good but I've never really gone nuts for it. I used to like Angle/Cena a shit ton but that was also in 2009 so who knows what I'd think of it now. Lesnar/Angle SS was one of those matches that everyone around me in 2009 was giving ****1/2+ and I gave it ***3/4 even though I thought less of it than that. I'll watch that again sometime, too (this will never happen).

Fuck forgot about Angle/Rey at SummerSlam. That might be my WWE MOTY 2002. They have another cracker on SD, too, maybe more than one. That Survivor Series Bunch o' Guys is good, yeah.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Rey/Brock and the Rey/Tajiris (1/1/04 even technically was 2003 b/c of SD being pre-taped) are all fucking awesome. I need to do a big catch up of 2003 Rey because everything I've seen is great, but there is a bunch I haven't seen or don't remember. The Rey/Kidman v. Team Angle tags I'm not sure I've ever seen. When's the Rey/Hardy on SD? Forgot the Lesnar/Show stretcher match which is probably PPV MOTY.
> 
> Eddie/Lesnar had a middle section that didn't interest me. Kind of the same situation of Orton/Foley where it didn't hold up one day and then trying to watch it again gave me the same feeling. Rock/Austin I'm not the biggest fan of. Pointless as hell leg work that went nowhere and it felt more like they were trying to create a moment than letting it come naturally (WMX7). Michaels/Jericho is good but I've never really gone nuts for it. I used to like Angle/Cena a shit ton but that was also in 2009 so who knows what I'd think of it now. Lesnar/Angle SS was one of those matches that everyone around me in 2009 was giving ****1/2+ and I gave it ***3/4 even though I thought less of it than that. I'll watch that again sometime, too (this will never happen).
> 
> Fuck forgot about Angle/Rey at SummerSlam. That might be my WWE MOTY 2002. They have another cracker on SD, too, maybe more than one. That Survivor Series Bunch o' Guys is good, yeah.



Rey/Hardy is 6/5/03, but I BELIEVE they also have another real excellent bout the SD after WM 19. Have to check again to be sure. I really really like Kidman/Tajiri from Backlash 2002, that just might crack the ****+ list as well.

As a general rule of thumb, you can watch just about every SD from late 2002-2003 and find atleast SOMETHING good, if not out and out great. The show was just stacked to the gills with bad ass wrestlers working their tails off.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

*2002: Year in Review*​


Spoiler: kofikingston



Undertaker vs. Big Show (1/3): ***
Edge/RVD vs. Jericho/Angle (1/3): ***1/4
Chris Jericho vs. Rikishi (1/7): **3/4
Dudley Boys vs. Tazz/Spike (1/7): **3/4
RVD vs. Test (1/7): ***
Tazz/Spike vs. Unamericans (1/10): **3/4
Rock/RVD vs. Jericho/Test (1/10): **3/4
Kurt Angle vs. Steve Austin (1/10): ***
Christian vs. Low Ki (1/12): ***
Unamericans vs. Rikishi/Bradshaw/Faarooq (1/14): **3/4
Power Trip vs. Angle/Booker (1/17): **3/4
Dudley Boys vs. Tazz/Spike (Royal Rumble): ***
Edge vs. William Regal (Royal Rumble): ***1/2
Ric Flair vs. Vince McMahon (Royal Rumble): ***1/2
Chris Jericho vs. The Rock (Royal Rumble): ****1/4
Royal Rumble Match (Royal Rumble): ***3/4
Bubba/D-Von/Booker vs. Spike/RVD/Tazz (1/21): **3/4
Edge vs. William Regal (1/21): **3/4
DDP vs. Christian (1/27): **3/4
Chris Jericho vs. Maven (1/28): ***1/4
Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle (1/28): ***
Chris Jericho vs. Tazz (1/31): **3/4
DDP vs. Christian (1/31): ***1/4
Regal/Bubba/D-Von vs. Edge/Rikishi/RVD (2/7): ***
Undertaker vs. Maven (2/7): **3/4
Edge vs. Chris Jericho (2/11): ***1/4
Undertaker/Angle vs. Maven/HHH (2/14): ***
Edge vs. William Regal (No Way Out): ***
RVD vs. Goldust (No Way Out): ***
Steve Austin vs. Chris Jericho (No Way Out): ***3/4
Hardy Boyz vs. Unamericans (2/18): ***
Christian vs. Edge (2/21): **3/4
Bubba/D-Von/Storm vs. RVD/Jeff/Matt (2/21): **3/4
Tajiri vs. Hurricane (2/24): ***
Chris Jericho vs. Kurt Angle (2/25): ***
William Regal vs. Big Show (2/28): **3/4
HHH/Kane vs. Angle/Jericho (2/28): **3/4
Tajiri vs. Billy Kidman (3/1): ***3/4
Kurt Angle vs. Triple H (3/4): **3/4
DDP vs. Lance Storm (3/10): ***
Angle/Booker vs. Show/Edge (3/11): **3/4
NWO vs. Rock/Austin (3/11): ***3/4
Kurt Angle vs. RVD (3/14): **3/4
Christian vs. DDP (Wrestlemania): ***
RVD vs. William Regal (Wrestlemania): ***
The Rock vs. Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania): ****1/2
Ric Flair vs. Undertaker (Wrestlemania): ****1/4
Christian vs. RVD (3/18): **3/4
Edge/Kane vs. Booker/Angle (3/18): ***
Maven vs. Al Snow (3/18): BROCK
DDP vs. William Regal (3/21): **3/4
Tajiri vs. Test (3/21): ***1/4
Kurt Angle vs. RVD (3/25): **3/4
Edge vs. Goldust (3/31): **3/4
RVD vs. Booker T (4/1): ***
Bubba Ray Dudley vs. Raven (4/1): ***
Christian vs. DDP (4/4): **3/4
Edge vs. Kurt Angle (4/4): **3/4
Billy Kidman vs. Tajiri (4/4): ***
RVD vs. Undertaker (4/8): ***3/4
Tajiri vs. Hurricane (4/11): ***
Edge vs. Chris Jericho (4/11): ***1/4
Eddie/Regal vs. Spike/RVD (4/15): ***
Bookdust vs. Hardy Boyz (4/15): **3/4
Billy Kidman vs. Tajiri (Backlash): ***3/4
Eddie Guerrero vs. RVD (Backlash): ***3/4
Brock Lesnar vs. Jeff Hardy (Backlash): ***
Edge vs. Kurt Angle (Backlash): ****1/2
Bookdust vs. Dudley Boys (4/22): ***1/4
Mark Henry vs. Christian (4/25): ***
Rikishi/Edge vs. Albert/Angle (4/25): ***
Chris Jericho vs. Triple H (4/25): ***1/4
Jeff Hardy vs. Eddie Guerrero (4/29): ***1/4
nWo vs. Austin/Bradshaw (4/29): **3/4
Bubba Ray Dudley vs. Jazz (4/29): Carryjob of the year
Storm/Angle vs. Edge/Venis (5/2): **3/4
Tajiri vs. Kidman (5/2): **3/4
Hulk Hogan vs. Chris Jericho (5/2): ***1/4
Jeff/RVD vs. Booker/Eddie (5/6): **3/4
Reverend D-Von vs. Triple H (5/9): **3/4
Jericho/Angle vs. Hogan/Edge (5/9): **3/4
Hardy Boyz vs. Brock Lesnar (5/13): **3/4
Ric Flair vs. Hulk Hogan (5/13): ***
Angle/Jericho vs. Edge/HHH (5/16): ***1/4
Eddie Guerrero vs. RVD (Judgment Day): ***1/2
Steve Austin vs. Flair/Show (Judgment Day): ***
Kurt Angle vs. Edge (Judgment Day): ****
Lesnar/Heyman vs. Hardy Boyz (Judgment Day): ***
nWo vs. Hardy Boyz (5/20): **3/4
Undertaker vs. RVD (5/20): ***1/2
Triple H vs. Lance Storm (5/23): ***1/2
Mark Henry vs. Chris Jericho (5/23): **3/4
Billy Kidman vs. Tajiri (5/25): ****
RVD vs. Eddie Guerrero (5/27): ***3/4
Randy Orton vs. Undertaker (5/30): ***
Tajiri/Chavo vs. Kidman/Hurricane (5/30): ***
Edge vs. Kurt Angle (5/30): ****
Lesnar/Eddie vs. RVD/Bubba (6/3): ***
Ric Flair vs. Steve Austin (6/3): ***
Christian vs. Val Venis (6/6): **3/4
Kurt Angle vs. Hardcore Holly (6/6): ***
Lance Storm vs Billy Kidman (6/6): **3/4
Funaki vs. Chavo Guerrero (6/8): ***
Kidman/Venis vs. Unamericans (6/13): **3/4
Rikishi vs. Albert (6/15): **3/4
Jamie Noble vs. Funaki (6/15): ***
Kurt Angle vs. Hardcore Holly (6/15): ***
RVD vs. X-Pac (6/17): ***
Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle (6/20): ***1/4
RVD vs. Chris Jericho (King of the Ring): ***3/4
Kurt Angle vs. Hulk Hogan (King of the Ring): ***
Brock Lesnar vs. Test (King of the Ring): ***
Jamie Noble vs. Hurricane (King of the Ring): ***1/2
nWo vs. Bookdust (6/24): ***1/2
RVD vs. Brock Lesnar (6/24): ***1/4
John Cena vs. Kurt Angle (6/27): ***3/4
Mark Henry vs. Lance Storm (6/27): ***
Kidman/Hurricane vs. Noble/Tajiri (6/27): **3/4
Albert vs. Tajiri (6/29): ***
Brock Lesnar vs. Ric Flair (7/1): ***
Benoit/Guerrero vs. Dudley Boys (7/1): ***1/4
Undertaker vs. Jeff Hardy (7/1): ****1/4
Homosexuals vs. Hulkamaniacs (7/4): ***1/2
Chris Jericho vs. John Cena (7/4): ***
Kurt Angle vs. Undertaker (7/4): ***3/4
Tajiri vs. Billy Kidman (7/6): **3/4
Jamie Noble vs. Hurricane (7/6): **3/4
Eddie Guerrero vs. Booker T (7/8): ***
Bubba Ray Dudley vs. Chris Benoit (7/8): **3/4
Nash/Eddie/Benoit/Show/X-Pac vs. Bubba/Spike/Goldust/Booker/RVD (7/8): ***1/4 (LMAO at Shawn Michaels here)
Hulkamaniacs vs. Homosexuals (7/11): ***
D-Von/Batista vs. Orton/Henry (7/11): ***
Cena/Undertaker vs. Jericho/Angle (7/11): **3/4
Tajiri vs. Shannon Moore (7/13): ***
Jeff/Spike/Bubba vs. Benoit/Eddie/Regal (7/15): ***1/2
Tommy Dreamer vs. Steven Richards (7/15): ***1/2
John Cena vs. Chris Jericho (7/18): **3/4
Chavo Guerrero vs. The Hurricane (7/18): ***
Dudley Boys vs. Benoit/Eddie (Vengeance): ***1/2
John Cena vs. Chris Jericho (Vengeance): ***
Jamie Noble vs. Billy Kidman (Vengeance): ***
RVD vs. Brock Lesnar (Vengeance): ***1/2
Booker T vs. Big Show (Vengeance): ***1/2
The Rock vs. Kurt Angle vs. Undertaker (Vengeance): ****1/4
Jeff Hardy vs. RVD (7/22): ***
Chris Benoit vs. Booker T (7/22): ***
Mark Henry vs. Kurt Angle (7/25): **3/4
Rey Mysterio vs. Chavo Guerrero (7/25): ***1/2
Edge vs. Chris Jericho (7/25): ***3/4
Billy Kidman vs. Jamie Noble (7/27): ***
Eddie Guerrero vs. Booker T (7/29): **3/4
Chris Benoit vs. RVD (7/29): ***3/4
Ric Flair vs. The Rock (7/29): ***1/4
Rey Mysterio vs. Tajiri (8/1): ***3/4
Brock Lesnar vs. Mark Henry (8/1): **3/4
Kurt Angle vs. Hulk Hogan (8/1): **3/4
Rock/Edge vs. Benoit/Eddie (8/1): ****
Bookdust vs. Nowinski/Regal (8/5): **3/4
RVD vs. Chris Jericho (8/5): ***
John Cena vs. Kurt Angle (8/8): **3/4
Mark Henry vs. Reverend D-Von (8/8): **3/4
Homosexuals vs. Moore/Hurricane (8/8): ***
Mysterio/Cena/Edge vs. Angle/Eddie/Benoit (8/8): ****
Brock Lesnar vs. Hulk Hogan (8/8): ***1/2
Tajiri vs. Chavo Guerrero (8/10): ***1/4
Jamie Noble vs. Hurricane (Global Warning): ***1/4
Unamericans vs. Mysterio/Kidman (Global Warning): ***1/2
Edge vs. Chris Jericho (Global Warning): ***1/2
Bubba/Flair vs. Jeri-Show (8/12): ***1/4
Tommy Dreamer vs. Steven Richards (8/12): **3/4
Test/Storm/Christian/HHH vs. Undertaker/Rock/Booker/Goldust (8/12): ***3/4
Mark Henry vs. Kurt Angle (8/15): ***1/4
Brock Lesnar vs. Rikishi (8/15): **3/4
Los Guerreros vs. Redge (8/15): ***
The Rock vs. Chris Benoit (8/15): ***1/2
Funaki/Kidman vs. Tajiri/Noble (8/17): ***
Goldust/Booker/Undertaker vs. Unamericans (8/19): **3/4
Moore/Hurricane vs. Noble/Tajiri (8/22): ***
Billy Kidman vs. Kurt Angle (8/22): ***1/4
Edge/Rock vs. Benoit/Eddie (8/22): ***1/2
Tajiri vs. Funaki (8/24): **3/4
Kurt Angle vs. Rey Mysterio (Summerslam): ****1/4
Undertaker vs. Test (Summerslam): ***1/2
Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero (Summerslam): ****
Unamericans vs. Bookdust (Summerslam): ****
RVD vs. Chris Benoit (Summerslam): ****
Chris Jericho vs. Ric Flair (Summerslam): ***1/2
Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H (Summerslam): ***1/2
The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar (Summerslam): ***1/4
Booker T vs. Christian (8/26): **3/4
Chris Jericho vs. Jeff Hardy (8/26): ***1/2
RVD vs. Tommy Dreamer (8/26): ***1/4
Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero (8/29): ***
Rikishi vs. Eddie Guerrero (8/29): **3/4
Shannon Moore vs. Tajiri (8/29): **3/4
Matt Hardy vs. Brock Lesnar (8/29): ***1/4
Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit (8/29): ***3/4
Mark Henry vs. Albert (8/31): ***
Funaki vs. Jamie Noble (8/31): ***
Triple H vs. Ric Flair (9/2): ***1/2
Jericho/HHH vs. RVD/Flair (9/2): **3/4
Shannon Moore vs. Jamie Noble (9/5): ***
Mark Henry vs. Tajiri (9/5): ***1/4
Brock Lesnar vs. Randy Orton (9/5): ***
Crash Holly vs. Hurricane (9/5): **3/4
Undertaker/Edge/Rikishi vs. Benoit/Eddie/Angle (9/5): ***3/4
Unamericans vs. Bradshaw/Kane (9/9): ***1/4
Triple H vs. Spike Dudley (9/9): ***
Bookdust vs. Unamericans (9/9): **3/4
Big Show vs. Chris Jericho vs. Jeff Hardy vs. RVD (9/9): ***1/2
Los Guerreros vs. Cena/Edge (9/12): ***1/2
Rey Mysterio vs. Kurt Angle (9/12): ***3/4
Chris Jericho vs. RVD (9/16): **3/4
Los Guerreros vs. Edge/Rikishi (9/19): ***1/4
Matt Hardy vs. Hurricane (9/19): ***1/4
Homosexuals vs. Bangle (9/19): ***1/4
Chavo Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio (9/22): ***
Unamericans vs. Bubba/Kane/Goldust/Booker (Unforgiven): ***1/2
Ric Flair vs. Chris Jericho (Unforgiven): ***1/2
Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero (Unforgiven): ****1/4
Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle (Unforgiven): ****
Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar (Unforgiven): ***1/4
Chris Jericho vs. Goldust (9/23): ***
Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero (9/26): ****1/4
Rey Mysterio vs. Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit (9/26): ***3/4
Kane vs. Chris Jericho (9/30): ***1/2
Los Guerreros vs. Henry/Rikishi (10/3): ***
Matt Hardy vs. Undertaker (10/3): **3/4
Kurt Angle vs. Edge (10/3): ****
Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Benoit (10/3): ****
Kane vs. Vitamin C vs. Jeff/RVD vs. Dudley Boys (10/7): ****1/4
Rikishi vs. Eddie Guerrero (10/10): **3/4
Bangle vs. Cena/Kidman (10/10): ***1/2
Redge vs. Lesnar/Tajiri (10/10): ***3/4
Vitamin C vs. HurriKane (10/14): **3/4
Redge vs. Simmons/D-Von (10/17): ***
Bangle vs. Los Guerreros (10/17): ****1/4
Bookdust vs. Vitamin C (No Mercy): ***1/2
Jamie Noble vs. Tajiri (No Mercy): ***1/2
Bangle vs. Redge (No Mercy): ****1/4
Brock Lesnar vs. Undertaker (No Mercy): ****1/2
Stratus/Booker/Goldust vs. Victoria/Jericho/Christian (10/21): ***
Jamie Noble vs. Tajiri (10/24): ***
Los Guerreros vs. Redge (10/24): ****
Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle (10/24): ***1/2
Booker T vs. Matt Hardy (Rebellion): ***1/2
Los Guerreros vs. Bangle (Rebellion): ***3/4
Vitamin C vs. Jeff/Bubba (10/28): ***1/4
Chris Benoit vs. Edge (10/31): ***3/4
Tajiri vs. Matt Hardy (10/31): ***1/2
Eddie Guerrero vs. Kurt Angle (10/31): ***3/4
Bangle vs. Redge (11/7): ****1/2
Brock Lesnar vs. Eddie Guerrero (11/7): ***1/2
Tajiri vs. Crash (11/9): ***
Edge vs. Chavo Guerrero (11/14): ***1/4
Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio (11/14): ****1/4
Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle (11/14): **3/4
Jeff/Bubba/Spike vs. Three Minute Warning (Survivor Series): ***3/4
Billy Kidman vs. Jamie Noble (Survivor Series): ***1/4
Brock Lesnar vs. Big Show (Survivor Series): ***1/2
Redge vs. Los Guerreros vs. Bangle (Survivor Series): ****
Kane vs. Booker T vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho vs. Triple H vs. RVD (Survivor Series): ****
RVD vs. Chris Jericho vs. Booker T (11/18): **3/4
Rey Mysterio vs. Jamie Noble (11/21): ***
Tajiri vs. Billy Kidman (11/21): **3/4
Chavo Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit (11/21): ***1/4
Kurt Angle vs. Eddie Guerrero (11/21): ***1/2
Edge vs. Big Show (11/21): ***
Dudley Boys vs. Vitamin C (11/25): ***
Unamericans vs. Jeff/Hurricane (11/25): **3/4
Shawn Michaels vs. RVD (11/25): ***
Redge vs. Cena/Matt (11/28): ***
Los Guerreros vs. Bangle (11/28): ****
Unamericans vs. Dreamer/Jeff (12/2): **3/4
Booker T vs. Chris Jericho (12/2): ***1/2
Vitamin C vs. Bookdust (12/2): ***3/4
Albert vs. Rey Mysterio (12/5): ***1/4
Billy Kidman vs. Chavo Guerrero (12/5): ***1/4
Kurt Angle vs. Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit (12/5): ****1/4
Bookdust vs. Unamericans (12/9): ***1/2
Los Guerreros vs. Kidman/Benoit (12/12): ***3/4
Edge/Angle vs. Show/Train (12/12): ***1/2
Billy Kidman vs. Chavo Guerrero (12/14): ***
Bookdust vs. Dudley Boys vs. Unamericans vs. Vitamin C (Armageddon): ***3/4
Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit (Armageddon): ****
Kurt Angle vs. Big Show (Armageddon): ***
Christian vs. Goldust (12/16): ***
Booker T vs. Chris Jericho (12/16): **3/4
Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle (12/19): ***
Bookdust vs. Vitamin C (12/23): ****1/2
Los Guerreros vs. Edge/Kidman (12/26): ***3/4
Chris Benoit vs. Big Show (12/26): ***1/2
Raven vs. Tommy Dreamer (12/29): ***



*Most Valuable Wrestler of the Year:* The Undertaker

During these watch-throughs, one unfortunate shame is that outside of 1996 or 1997, every year I watch either has an injured Undertaker, a part-time Undertaker, or the worst of them all: unmotivated Undertaker. I love Taker, but from 1998-2001, he just refused to have good matches for some odd reason. That all changed when he turned into Big Evil in the end of 2001. That momentum carried on to 2002 where Taker won the Undisputed Championship and had one of the best title reigns in company history. What impressed me the most was how Taker could work with the likes of Maven and Tommy Dreamer and put them over, work with upper midcarders such as RVD and Jeff Hardy and put them over, and work with The Rock and Hulk Hogan all at the same time on two different shows. No matter what position you put Undertaker in, he would excel along with the wrestler he worked with. And it didn't stop there. Before he took his annual sabbatical, Undertaker solidified a young Brock Lesnar into the most dominant wrestler in the business in an all-time great feud. What a year for the Deadman.

*Workhorse of the Year:* Kurt Angle

Believe me, in a year that consisted of the likes of Benoit, Mysterio, Eddie, Jericho, Goldust, and Lesnar, I was well-aware of all the great candidates. I actually had to put my matchlist onto an excel spreadsheet and calculate a total star-rating for these wrestlers, and the guy that had the highest value was Kurt. It certainly isn't a fluke though. Throughout the year, Angle played many different roles and wrestled many different styles of matches, ranging from tag team bouts to brawls to WWE main events to "technical wrestling" and even comedy. Kurt's matches passed the first and foremost test of wrestling; they were always fun. His matches also did a great job of showcasing his opponent no matter who they were. The most impressive thing though is that Angle stayed in that high gear throughout the entire year from January to December. Some wrestlers had their few months of good stuff and other wrestlers were generally very good but only took part in a fraction of the year. Angle was very good all year long. What makes a workhorse what they are is consistently high production under any circumstances, and nobody in 2002 consistently performed at a peak level like Angle did.

*PPV of the Year:* Summerslam

Mhm. You guys saw my diatribe a couple days ago regarding the main event of the show. Yes, it did not hold up as well as I remember it, but that just goes to show just how strong of a show Summerslam was. Never has there been an undercard as great as this. One four-star match after another after another thanks to some of the best wrestlers in the world at the time. All eight matches - all of them - are worth watching. And not only was the show itself great, but all eight matches had weeks of buildup that made all of them must-see. Is there a better PPV than this?

*Match of the Year:* Bookdust vs. Vitamin C (12/23)



Spoiler: matchreview



I'm impressed by how many people guessed this. It is an unorthodox pick, but it has become indoctrinated as one of "those" matches for me. Who would have thought that the last real episode of RAW in a weak year for the show would provide us this classic? It was only fitting though that such a situation would take place because it almost felt as if the entire year was built up for this one special match. A year of hardship and difficulty for both Booker T and Goldust as they built an unusual friendship. A year for Christian where he was at last on his own, and he kept reinventing himself until he found something in Vitamin C. And a year for Jericho where he suffered a Shakespearean collapse from the top of the mountain into the tag team division, which in the end turned out to be a blessing in disguise. All of their roads led to a fifteen minute match on the 500th edition of RAW.

To really appreciate this match, it is worth noting a couple things. These two teams competed two other times before, but their first match was marred by a misbehaving ring, and their second match was initially a singles match that got Teddy Long'd. For all intents and purposes, this was their real chance to showcase themselves. Everyone should also watch the Jericho/Goldust segment prior to the match. Jericho berates Goldust for being the "weak link" of the team as well as being a failure of a son, husband, and father. Being the biggest Jericho fan here, even I was fuming at Jericho's comments to poor Goldy. On top of that, Goldust was going through some self-esteem issues at the time and even went as far as to voluntarily leave Booker and find a better tag team partner for him. Knowing all these details made this match that much better.

I love how the match started off with Booker T conceding the opportunity to start the match to Goldust as a way to reassure Goldust's confidence. This led to a nice shine sequence where Dust beats the crap out of Jericho and Christian with the assistance of Booker. In typical heel fashion, Vitamin C ends Goldust's rush of adrenaline with nefarious cheating and whatnot, which then leads to Jericho targeting the lower back of Goldust. I really liked how Goldust's initial FIP segment was kept short so that Booker T could get a shine sequence of his own in order to show how he was the "strong link" of the team. Booker's FIP sequence was surprisingly really good, mainly because Jericho was drawing unbelievable heat. It was also important that Booker had this lengthy FIP segment because it showed that even though Booker is a very talented wrestler, he still needed Goldust if he wanted to win the match. I also love how Jericho and Christian resorted to old-school heel tactics such as feigning a tag by clapping their hands and it was cool to see Bookdust go through unfortunate circumstances such as Christian putting his foot on the ropes during a nearfall and having their tag-ins rescinded because the referee didn't see it.

The match really hits a fever pitch when Goldust gets the hot tag and uses every part of his body in Goldust fashion to beat up the Chrises. Jericho was able to get in the Walls of Jericho by surprise and you could really see Goldust forcing himself not to succumb. Very fitting that the final sequence of the match was between Jericho and Goldust after the segment that aired earlier on in the show. Jericho nearly pulled off the victory with a rollup with his feet on the ropes, but Goldust saves the match all by himself by kicking out. As Jericho prepped for his Lionsault, Goldust was able to reverse it into a rollup of his own while grabbing on to his tights to finally pull off the victory for his team.

With all that said, the remaining question is why is this match the match of the year and not any of the other great choices? Simply put, this was the one match I watched from 2002 that I would call "perfect". Unlike any other match from 2002 (even the likes of Rock/Hogan and Taker/Brock), I cannot think of a single thing that would improve this match. I alluded to it earlier, but what made this match special for me is that it indoctrinated itself as one of "those" matches. What I mean by this is that I now feel the need to watch this match whenever I am not sure what to watch, especially if I am in the mood to witness a feel-good moment that shows off the power of wrestling. And that's what this match does best: show off the power of wrestling. 

One long year where Goldust kept trying to prove to himself as well as his only friend in the company that he was not just a gold freak. Throughout this journey as well as even in this match, Goldust and Booker T experienced many close calls to success, but the rug was pulled and the unlikely duo would get cheated out of success at every opportunity. This match summarized the super fun Bookdust storyline into fifteen super fun minutes. I went through a rollercoaster of emotions watching this match, with the final emotion being a sense of catharsis and satisfaction as I saw Goldust get the biggest win of his career. And as a result, this match has now become the match that I will point out to whenever someone asks for a feel-good story that shows how much wrestling plays with our emotions.



In the first full year after the Attitude Era, the WWE was going through a period of uncertainty and lack of direction to say the least. In some ways it led to questionable decisions, but what it ultimately brought out was the Ruthless Aggression Era, which may be my favorite era of them all. The first half of the year was one where the star power was through the roof, but there was no sense of direction as to what this new era would be, and oftentimes the WWE resorted to watered down versions of Attitude Era ideas. It was only after the brand split where we got to see some sense of efficient allocation of talent as well as an understanding as to what the Ruthless Aggression Era was.

As we all know, Smackdown during this period is known for Paul Heyman's booking philosophy that emphasized in-ring quality, a fluid main event scene, and accentuating the positives and hiding the negatives of wrestlers. You could make a really good argument that the last six months of the year for Smackdown was the best material that the WWE ever produced. So many wrestlers put on the best work of their career and so many wrestlers became stars under Paul Heyman's oversight. The biggest example I would say of Heyman's brilliance was how he was able to make a stale and horrible Big Show into one of the more interesting characters in the WWE in minutes. If 2002 was just Smackdown, it could be the best year ever.

Unfortunately, RAW did not have the same brilliant mind running its show. Even before the brand split, episodes of RAW felt so disjointed and inconsistent, and lacked much good wrestling. After the brand split, things only got worse as so much talent switched to the superior show. I'm not gonna go into detail about Triple H because we all get the point. But I think the best way to show just how incompetent RAW became was that they were somehow able to make William Regal (WILLIAM FREAKING REGAL) into a dull and skippable part of the show. It takes a special level of incompetence to do something like that, and that was the story of RAW in 2002.

Not sure how to quantitatively describe 2002, but I will say that I had a lot of fun watching the year. Great run down memory lane as this was the time where I was most invested into wrestling. Definitely an important year that set down the foundation of my favorite era. Be jealous of me as I watch through Smackdown in 2003, and keep me in your prayers as I also watch RAW in 2003.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> After reading Jericho's new book I decided to completely rewatch all 4 of the PPV matches for the Jericho/Michaels feud. I have to say, my opinion has changed drastically about these matches and the feud as a whole. Before I thought the feud was really good and the matches were "okay" but not the epics everyone made them out to be. Now, I still think the feud was really good and the matches themselves are GREAT. I thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed reliving this feud. All the petty gripes I had before are gone, what I just experienced was true greatness.
> 
> My ratings:
> 
> ...


I swear there's a part early in the match when Jericho has control and hits Michaels with a chair. Why not hit the arm there? To me it came off as Jericho ignoring a gigantic bull's eye. Michaels went out of his way to present it as a major weakness with his selling. 

Isn't the whole point of an unsanctioned match that both guys sign a waiver so that WWE isn't liable for anything they do to each other?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Great review. It paints 2002 exactly as I imagined. Weak Raw side and a consistently strong Smackdown with Kurt Angle in his prime. Second half of 2002 gives me 2003 SD vibes with how many matches from each week are mentioned.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

In Your House: Final Four 

*Marc Mero w/Sable vs. Leif Cassidy *

Decent enough match. Cassidy works the leg of Mero and that’s his main point of offense and Mero sells well. Sable’s involvement in the match was pretty weird because Mero is playing a face but his manager is the only reason he was able to get back into the match. The comeback from Mero was quick and he sold the leg during it which was a huge plus. He does a good looking shooting star press for the finish. Solid match. Nothing spectacular or anything but it was 8 minutes enjoyable to watch. 
**** 


*Bart Gunn, Goldust, and Flash Funk vs. The Nation of Domination* 

What a weird team to go against the Nation. Flash Funk was again the star of the match as he worked most of the match for his team and made things a lot of fun. The face team gets the upper hand quickly and Flash hits his first big dive onto the floor. A minute later Bart Gunn throws him over the top rope and onto the Nation but they catch him and just beat the shit out of him. From there the Nation takes control of the match and isolate Flash. We get a quick but exciting build to a hot tag and things break down for a little bit. I wish the ending has been better as it was essentially the Nation winning with a leg drop but the rest of the match was entertaining enough.
***¼ *


_Intercontinental Championship Match:_
*Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. Rocky Maivia(c)* 

I can’t say I was too impressed here. Triple H controls most of the match, which made a ton of sense considering Rock was still playing the rookie that won the title on a fluke. Triple H’s control segments were pretty good but the Rock just wasn’t very good as a face yet. He was just so generic in the ring and did nothing to make me care. His comeback attempts came across as flat. There were some interesting moments when it looked like either guy could win soon that I enjoyed but for the most part there was just good build to a lackluster conclusion.
**¾* 


_WWF Tag Team Championship Match_
*Doug Furnas and Philip Lafon vs. Owen Hart and The British Bulldog(c)*

Bulldog and Owen were going through a “rough patch” heading into the match and that came across very well in the match as there was some noticeable tension between them throughout the match. The match started with some fun technical changes before Bulldog and Owen started a control segment on Lafon. I enjoyed that part of the match a lot because it wasn’t really that one sided. It was a fighting control segment from Lafon as he was never in control of the match but would reverse something, get a roll up, or hit a quick move from time to time. When the hot tag was made Owen kicks Bulldog by mistake and then the match gets really good. Bulldog is pissed and hits Owen with clothesline and quickly regrets doing it as he immediately has to save Owen from getting pinned. What follows is this awesome sequence where Furnas and Lafon come so close to winning the titles but Owen just keeps kicking out. You get more of the same once Bulldog gets into the match as well. Owen ends up getting the team DQed on purpose to save the titles despite the fact that it looked like Bulldog had them set up for a clean win. The match just got progressively better. I love when a crowd starts dead and by the end of the match they are totally into the match and that’s what happened here. 
****½ *


_Elimination Match for the Vacant WWF Championship:_
*Vader w/Paul Bearer vs. “Stone Cold” Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Bret “The Hitman” Hart*

Holy shit was this amazing. Why aren’t all multi-man matches worked like this? Next time WWE books a multi-person match please make everyone watch this 10 times before they go to the ring. It’s a fucking war. They just kept fighting the entire time, nobody sold for 5 minutes, and it was brutal. Vader either gets opened up the hard way or blades right over his eye early on in the match; either way he looks like he’s wrestling with one eye the entire match. There’s no attempt at working together or anything like that. If someone has a shot they are taking it. Bret is hitting people with low blows, Undertaker saves Bret from Vader by punching Vader in his bloody eye and Hart responds by attacking the Undertaker. Austin and Vader, the heels, were about to come to blows before the match even started. Words cannot do this justice. About 5 minutes in you realize that you’re seeing something amazing and it never stops being amazing. The pace was just absurd for the first half of the match and when they slowed you weren’t annoyed that they slowed down, you were wondering how they were still standing. I feel exhausted after watching the match. I would be hard pressed to find a match with 4 people better than these 4 and they went all out to have a totally unique brawl. I would go even higher than what I’m giving it but there were a few instances of sloppiness and some things were kind of dumb (Undertaker shouldn’t be breaking up the sharpshooter). Ending was also a little absurd with how Austin was getting involved. Those are really minor complaints in the end because the match was just so much fun to watch.
*****½* ​
The undercard was OK, tag title match was really good, and the main event was a classic. Can't complain.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Awesome review, funnyfaces. (Y)

Definitely felt higher about Smackdown in 2002 than I did Raw, however Raw did have some solid stuff from time to time.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Edge: properly, over, or under rated?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Epic insight on 2002, ff. Taker is my WOTY for 2002 for sure, although Eddie, Benoit, Angle, Lesnar and even Rock come close. Wasn't surprised that Bookdust/Vitamin C ended up your MOTY after you said it was a "unique" choice. For a moment, based off of ratings, I thought you were going for Angle/Edge Backlash instead though :lol

Btw, Judgment Day > Backlash for those two's PPV outings. JD is legit :mark:, Backlash is really good but I didn't :mark: for it quite like I did w/JD and DEM DAMN NEARFALLS. Cage match is also good too.

And as far as Edge is concerned, depends. I personally find him properrated. He's extremely entertaining of a character, good talker, very charismatic, and he could go in the ring for the most part (no, I'm not one of THOSE who hates his guts :side.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That tag is pretty much what I was hinting at when I guessed it was a tag match and not one from the SD side of things lol. Everyone here is too predictable nowadays :side:.

My knee is giving me plenty of pain today so I doubt I'll add to that by attempting an 07 PPV as well lol. Shall save that for another day .

In the mood for some FUNK though after watching the history of the WHC documentary.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, DEAD THREAD. Let's turn it up a notch. Best Vince McMahon match? 

For me, Vince/Hogan steals it easily. **** for that motherfucker.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Vince/Hogan? Are you trying to hurt Cal's knee even more? I think my choice would be the Punk 2012 "match" if it counts.

IYH: Breakdown had a solid undercard, but that main event was so stupid. Owen/Edge was really fun. Bradshaw/Vader was a damn good fight. And that cage match. I have no clue why it's looked down upon here, but that match was so good. Crowd was in love with The Rock. The next PPV (Judgment Day) has three or four good matches, and the rest are DUDs. The main event in particular is in argument for worst main events the WWE ever gave us. Dammit Undertaker, why did you have to suck so much in the ring during the Attitude Era?

Chris Benoit vs. Charlie Haas from 1/23/2003 is really good. Like four star good.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ummm, no. Just pointing out my opinion, dude. Don't think Vince's ever had a better match than that. I mean, let's see his PPV historical record:

Royal Rumble 1999: DUD
vs Austin Cage: ***
w/Shane vs Austin KOTR: God knows, haven't watched it since the first time, but I didn't really like it back then
vs HHH Armageddon: ***
vs Shane: ***1/2
vs Flair: ***1/2
vs Hogan: ****
vs Gowen: **3/4
vs Stephanie: ***
vs Taker: ***
vs HBK: ***1/4
w/Shane vs HBK: ***1/2
w/Shane vs DX: ***1/4
w/Shane & Show vs DX: ***3/4
w/Shane & Umaga vs Lashley:
- Backlash: **1/4
- JD: DUD
- ONS: **
vs Bret: More than DUD, EWW

And that's it if I'm not wrong. As far as TV is concerned, the Punk match is a great brawl but I wouldn't put it on Vince/Hogan's level. I believe there's a good Shane match after WM 17... and there's also a good Street Fight w/Flair in 2008. Can't remember anything else really.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

*Chris Benoit vs. Charlie Haas (1/23/2003)*

Love the story here of the young amateur wrestler in Charlie Haas facing the elder pro wrestler in Chris Benoit. Haas may be bigger and more athletic than Benoit, but Benoit has eons of experience on his side to counteract Haas' offense. Benoit also does not know nearly enough holds as Haas, but he uses the holds that he knows well in order to get in his offense. Benoit is also selling an arm injury in this match, which Charlie Haas works really well, including also pinpointing the wrist and yanking it in all directions. Benoit adjusts his offense accordingly to fit in the injured arm into the match by having difficulty in performing his Germans and his crossface. Without the ability to use his trademark holds, Benoit wrestles defensively by going for counters and reversals to Haas' holds as well as capitalizing on Haas' mistakes. I really liked how Benoit resorted to kicking Haas to show just how bad a shape the arm is in. Not gonna spoil the ending, but Benoit and Haas chose a simple but effective way in thinking of an ending that fit in with the narrative at hand while also putting both guys over.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

The Vince-Hogan match probably wins just because of this image:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Vince/Hogan sucks.

Vince/Flair is awesome. So is the handicap ladder match with Shane against Austin. Was shocked how much I enjoyed it when I saw it for the first time on the.... second(?) ladder match set. Vince has had a handful of pretty great matches, ***+. And then some truly awful WOAT matches too. Still a better wrestler than Chabo.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Vince vs. Zach Gowen is pretty great. Not that it's actually a great match but Vince gets to play the monster heel and that's something that he was meant to do in a wrestling match but never has the chance to do that.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Vince vs Steph :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Honey Bucket said:


> The Vince-Hogan match probably wins just because of this image:


I also love Vince lying on the mat at the end and 'flipping the bird' to Hogan.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Best Vince match was against HBK at Wrestlemania 22 imo. That was an extremely fun ass-kicking.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> I swear there's a part early in the match when Jericho has control and hits Michaels with a chair. Why not hit the arm there? To me it came off as Jericho ignoring a gigantic bull's eye. Michaels went out of his way to present it as a major weakness with his selling.
> 
> Isn't the whole point of an unsanctioned match that both guys sign a waiver so that WWE isn't liable for anything they do to each other?


I didn't see it that way at all. To me it's nit picking to say when Jericho got his teeny bit of offense in during the beginning he didn't attack the arm. Shawn had been demolishing Jericho so Jericho got defensive and hit a few big moves before Shawn went right back to destroying him for another 5-10 minutes. The first sustained offense Jericho got, he did nothing BUT target Shawn's arm. He and Cade just annihilated it, and Shawn's selling was superb.

If it bothered you that Jericho didn't go for the arm when he got that 120 seconds of offense in, then so be it everyone is entitled to an opinion you're certainly not wrong for thinking that. I will just say personally, I went into that match looking for things to criticize because I remembered not liking it the first time and I came away doing a complete 180. They did so many things perfectly in that match, other than a few tiny things here or there I wouldn't change a thing structure wise. It's one of my all time favorite Shawn Michaels performances now.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Vince/Hogan? Are you trying to hurt Cal's knee even more? I think my choice would be the Punk 2012 "match" if it counts.


That was a bell-to-bell match wasn't it?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> That was a bell-to-bell match wasn't it?


I don't think it was an official match. It was just a brawl.

Some more 2003 bouts to mention:

*Chris Benoit vs. A-Train (2/13/03)*

Tensai is a behemoth! I'm not one to care about stiff moves, but holy crap the clotheslines he hits here look and sound painful. Benoit suffered from an eye injury in a match with Angle the week before, and Albert crushes that eye, including a sweet Brogue Kick. All this offense on Benoit made his comeback that much better because it really did feel that Benoit was overcoming an insurmountable odd. The Baldo Bomb reversal into a Crossface was too sweet. Fun seven minute match.

*Matt Hardy vs. Rey Mysterio (2/13/03)*

This was the beginning of Matt Hardy's crusade to becoming a cruiserweight. In order to lose weight, Hardy wears a rubber suit underneath his attire. What makes this match special was how these two were able to play off this story into their match. Matt starts off with the advantage by using his size and power as he should since he's a giant in a world of juniors now. Mysterio realizes that Matt is exhausted from trying to lose ten pounds within a week, so he runs around and uses his speed in order to tire Hardy out. There is a really cool spot where Matt Hardy is so tired that he collapses into position for the 619 in a non-contrived fashion, and Shannon Moore starts waving a towel in front of Matt's face in order to cool him off. Go watch this fun match.

*Nunzio vs. Shannon Moore (1/23/03)*

Absolutely nobody will take my word for it, but this five minute match needs to be watched. Shannon Moore is a Mattitude follower who keeps getting his ass kicked because he makes silly mistakes in matches. My hero Nunzio beats the crap out of Moore's arm. Really good nearfall with the Sicilian Slice. Shannon Moore somehow gets the upper hard, but because he's a dumbass that wants to prove himself to Matt Hardy, he attempts a twist of fate and fails miserably. Nunzio takes advantage of it and this match is hilarious in a good way.

*Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena (2/13/03)*

Brock is the babyface and John is a heel. But Brock works like a heel here and John works like a face. I guess that's the only way they can work together, but by golly it works. Brock beats the shit out of Cena and suplexes him over his head with ease. Lesnar then fiddles around with the turnbuckle in heelish fashion, but this allows Cena to get his trusty chain and knock Brock out. Everyone knew that Lesnar was gonna win this match, but for that moment, I thought Cena would pull off the upset. Cena then takes control with a rear naked choke and Brock keeps standing up with Cena on his back and bashes him around. The exposed turnbuckle comes into play as Cena gets hurt by it and then Lesnar is in control and Cena dies.


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

Anyone remember the show where Benoit stiffed the hell out of Regal with the chops? I thought it was their Velocity match but it turned out I was wrong.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Since we're talking about it, I read Jericho's latest book. The way he talks about the HBK feud makes me cringe. Old Y2J needs to get over himself a little bit. Great program but GOAT material with GOAT matches? Nope. He certainly has no problem tooting his own horn. Then he went and called his recent matches with Orton and somebody else (Wyatt maybe?) 5 star affairs and show stealers in a recent interview. Now, he's entitled to his opinion and everything but really? After seeing the talk about it in here and reading all about it in the book I'm half tempted to maybe go back and watch the whole Jericho/HBK series. Then again I couldn't give many fucks about anything wrestling related lately so maybe another time.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> Since we're talking about it, I read Jericho's latest book. The way he talks about the HBK feud makes me cringe. Old Y2J needs to get over himself a little bit. Great program but GOAT material with GOAT matches? Nope. He certainly has no problem tooting his own horn. Then he went and called his recent matches with Orton and somebody else (Wyatt maybe?) 5 star affairs and show stealers in a recent interview. Now, he's entitled to his opinion and everything but really? After seeing the talk about it in here and reading all about it in the book I'm half tempted to maybe go back and watch the whole Jericho/HBK series. Then again I couldn't give many fucks about anything wrestling related lately so maybe another time.



That's exactly what I did and I'm not sorry for doing it. I wasn't a huge fan of the feud originally, but after reading Jericho's new book I decided to give the full thing a rewatch, and I really really loved it this time around. GOAT feud? Nah no way in hell. Probably would crack my own personal top 10 for WWE feuds, easily. That was a 7 month feud with 4 damn fine matches and boat loads of animosity. That's not an easy thing to do, but they accomplished it.

Undertaker/Mankind will forever be my most favorite feud ever, but that kind of feud simply doesn't exist anymore. As far as post 2008 feuds go, Jericho/Michaels is right near the top of the list for me now.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I still love the matches in the '08 Jericho/HBK series. I'll admit there's definite flaws in a couple of them, but I love that whole series to death. :argh:


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Yeah, Jericho does like to toot his own horn, from his book, to his interviews saying he and Orton stole the show at NOC (which STILL makes me laugh), but his book is still super enjoyable and it makes me want to take a stroll down memory lane and watch that Jericho/HBK series. I might as well use the WWE Network for something.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Yeah, I definitely don't think him and Orton stole the show. Was one of my least favorite matches of the show.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

For a stadium that's known for packed, wild crowds, WWE certainly fucked up in selling tickets in Monterrey, Mexico. There are clearly whole sections that are either not sold or tapered off.

This seems a new low on the trend of dwindling live support/fan turnout for the promotion over the past few years. Rather odd, considering they always claim the annual Mexican tour as highly important on their calenders and emphasize their want/need to capture the Hispanic demographic yet never follow through on putting those words to practice. They had Del Rio go over as the winner of the biggest Royal Rumble of all time, yet never quite highlighted or treated him as one would have expected. Generic heel and stereotypical face character that did nothing but accentuate his flaws and never allowed him to get over with the crowd. Mistico is what it was, but both are now massively supported back in their home country with the former seen as a hero coming out of a White-dominated, racially charged federation. WWE shot themselves in the foot with how they handled the controversy, especially so soon before the Mexican tour (nevermind the #FreeRey sentiments Konnan is trying to trend). Sending only Cesaro and Rosa down for the publicity campaign also indicates how low or, rather, out of touch they are with their audience. 

It's normal for WWE to push native stars before an international tour (Gabriel gets some TV time before they come to SA and Cesaro was on a roll coming into the Wrestlemania Revenge tour, even having a lengthy promo from Cena putting him over huge at one of the house shows) but they clearly give zero fucks about a fanbase so close to their home. Samuray Del Sol being groomed into the next Rey figure is a play both too small and too late. Why they're only debating making a move on Volador Jr (who is 33) recently, when he's stalling as a commodity, is anyone's guess. I can understand wanting to focus on the home market over another, but their network-oriented business model seems to alienate them, too. A 20,000 person gate of zealous fans is something any entertainment business would want. Throwing those fans away is idiotic, especially when it comes down to a lack of foresight and planning that so easily could have been prevented.

Mexico aside, this company has a host of talent with international origins yet refuse to get behind them. I'm not asking for their origins to become their identity, far from it, but a focus on and a highlighting of the diversification of the roster would do the product wonders both on-screen and for international tours/their income. It isn't as if these wrestlers aren't extraordinarily talented or not over, either. Instead, monotony reigns with untalented divas such as AJ Lee + The Bellas and Orton/Cena facing each other for the _18th time on PPV_. Wrestling really must be the most forgiving medium to run a business through. It's an almost testament to sheer stupidity at how Dixie can fuck up so spectacularly, really.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Jericho/Mysterio > Jericho/HBK


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

09.25.2003, is that the date of the Tajiri/Mysterio match on SD?

Might watch their No Mercy match too, also gimme a chance to watch Angle/Cena, which i personally love tbh.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That's exactly what I did and I'm not sorry for doing it. I wasn't a huge fan of the feud originally, but after reading Jericho's new book I decided to give the full thing a rewatch, and I really really loved it this time around. GOAT feud? Nah no way in hell. Probably would crack my own personal top 10 for WWE feuds, easily. That was a 7 month feud with 4 damn fine matches and boat loads of animosity. That's not an easy thing to do, but they accomplished it.
> 
> Undertaker/Mankind will forever be my most favorite feud ever, but that kind of feud simply doesn't exist anymore. As far as post 2008 feuds go, Jericho/Michaels is right near the top of the list for me now.


I'd really need to watch it again because I don't think it would get a fair shake from me based on what I remember from 6 years ago but Jericho himself constantly talking about it the way he does is mildly annoying. I've never seen another wrestler (outside Bret Hart) big up something he was involved in so much. It's kind of weird and he definitely comes across as a big mark for himself when he does it. It's a bit cringey imo and is probably putting me off just a bit. It's probably not the most fair way to judge a feud but until I watch it back I'm not making any judgments. The chances of that happening though aren't particularly great so for now, it's pretty meh.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> I'd really need to watch it again because I don't think it would get a fair shake from me based on what I remember from 6 years ago but Jericho himself constantly talking about it the way he does is mildly annoying. I've never seen another wrestler (outside Bret Hart) big up something he was involved in so much. It's kind of weird and he definitely comes across as a big mark for himself when he does it. It's a bit cringey imo and is probably putting me off just a bit. It's probably not the most fair way to judge a feud but until I watch it back I'm not making any judgments. The chances of that happening though aren't particularly great so for now, it's pretty meh.



Bret Hart takes the cake as far as being a big mark for himself, but let's be real here: what big names in wrestling aren't marks for themselves? Come on, it's only natural. These guys grew up huge fans of wrestling so when they made it big of course they are going to have a big ego about it. Steve Austin has no problem saying he's the biggest star ever in wrestling. Hogan as well. Foley has his self deprecating humor but underneath it he definitely knows how great he was and always manages to slip mentions of it in. Jericho is no different, he genuinely feels his feud with Shawn is one of the best ever in wrestling, he's Immensly proud of it, and enjoys talking about it. I don't see really too much harm in it, the only guy who managed to go overboard with it in my opinion is Bret Hart. I love Bret Hart, and I love his book. But reading like 700 pages where he never once admits fault in anything and constantly feels the need to mention his superiority and all around greatness does grow tiresome, I'll admit. Jericho didn't come off like that in this recent book, atleast to me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bret gets alot of stick for being a mark, but so is Flair, just as much in some interviews IMHO.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't think Jericho is _that_ much of a mark for himself. In his second book which I read entirely (skipped metal chapters because fuck that shit), he had no problem putting down some of his matches and iirc, went as far as saying HHH carried their LMS match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Bret Hart takes the cake as far as being a big mark for himself, but let's be real here: what big names in wrestling aren't marks for themselves? Come on, it's only natural. These guys grew up huge fans of wrestling so when they made it big of course they are going to have a big ego about it. Steve Austin has no problem saying he's the biggest star ever in wrestling. Hogan as well. Foley has his self deprecating humor but underneath it he definitely knows how great he was and always manages to slip mentions of it in. Jericho is no different, he genuinely feels his feud with Shawn is one of the best ever in wrestling, he's Immensly proud of it, and enjoys talking about it. I don't see really too much harm in it, the only guy who managed to go overboard with it in my opinion is Bret Hart. I love Bret Hart, and I love his book. But reading like 700 pages where he never once admits fault in anything and constantly feels the need to mention his superiority and all around greatness does grow tiresome, I'll admit. Jericho didn't come off like that in this recent book, atleast to me.


I'm sure deep down they're all marks for themselves but not many of them flaunt it or feel the need to constantly talk about how great X match/feud/promo was. I got no problem with somebody being proud of what they've done but I don't think I've heard a single Jericho interview where he doesn't bring this thing up in some fashion. I guess I just find it offputting reading the guy verbally blow himself for 5 chapters straight. The rest of the book was pretty good, the wrestling parts anyway. But the whole way through I definitely get a feeling of an over inflated sense of worth with Jericho. His recent interviews haven't done much to dispel that belief for me either.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Watched 5 October 1998 episode of Raw and Rock vs Undertaker was a solid main event. :lmao @ Dr. Austin attacking Vince in the hospital and Mizark suing Chyna for sexual harassment.

Am I living a fantasy or are we close to getting Orton vs Lesnar at Survivor Series? :mark: Please WWE, don't troll us with another LOLCENAWINS.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

They somehow gave me a reason to care about Orton/Cena. Really hope Orton pulls it off, especially since he's the hottest thing in the company at the moment.

:lmao I didn't know that they ran segments back in 2003 where they broke kayfabe by having Undertaker teach Nathan Jones how to wrestle. And Nathan Jones was terrible! Dude couldn't even apply a headlock correctly.

EDIT: OMG HE BEAT SHEAMUS! THE SUPERIOR SANDOW BEAT SHEAMUS!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Nathan Jones. There was a failure. :lmao


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I like that Orton changed up the pacing of his promo tonight. Definitely caught my attention more than usual.

Orton/Lesnar in St Louis would be pretty sweet.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Wrote this in the Cena/Orton thread.

I'd love if WWE pulled the trigger on Orton getting the match vs. Lesnar, even if it means Rollins screws Cena again, setting up that match for Survivor Series. First, I think WWE has failed miserably with Lesnar's title reign and it needs to end. It can't go until WM because they can't pull off a part-time champ without acting like he doesn't exist. It's a shame because there was a lot of potential.

As for the scenario, I'd do the Orton/Lesnar match in St. Louis for Survivor Series - Orton's hometown. The match would either have A) a Rollins cash-in mid-match (similar to NOC) as Orton is about to win, stealing his win in his hometown and cementing Orton has the sympathetic babyface figure and cementing The Authority vs. Randy Orton with Rollins requesting the HIAC stipulation OR B) Orton dethroning Lesnar in his hometown only for Rollins to cash-in on him afterwards and steal the title, setting that program up.

I'll be highly disappointed if they do Lesnar/Cena AGAIN, because that's just incredibly lazy. But, I should expect that from WWE.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Yeah, I pretty much want the title off Lesnar at all costs now. Really might as well not have a title if it's like this.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't care what happens as long as I get Orton vs Brock. 

But yeah, I like option B. Orton defeating The One and Rollins cashing in all in one. Turns Orton face, gets belt off of Lesnar and Reigns doesn't get the predictable WM31 rub that we've all come to expect. A win in every way for me.

The butthurt if Orton beats Brock, though. :mark:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'd be all for Orton beating Brock. as long as the match is good. I mean it'd be cool with it regardless but I'd like to see a good match out of it.

Also, I'm probably in the minority here but I liked the Rusev/Big E match and the Rusev/Big Show segment.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Orton's killing it right now. He's on fire. He deserves it, imo.

Rusev kicking the marine. :lmao Amazing. He should have pulled down the flag first to get the maximum amount of heat, though.


----------



## kurtmangled (Jan 5, 2010)

Has Lesnar been on yet? or is he on another vacation ?


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

It really is a peculiar situation. The Brock experiment which should've been MONEY has turned into a quagmire at best (no not giggidy giggidy), and hell big of a Brock fan as I am, personally I'd like the trigger to be pulled. This is getting ridiculous in this modern age having a champion who is damn near never there and when he is faces the same guy (albeit a hell of a saga going there it is still stale particularly now that Lesnar has shown vulnerability). Business wise, we need a new star, and no one carries the visibility to christen a new star outside of Cena, Taker and Lesnar. I don't think WWE will give that christening rub to anyone but Reigns, especially given Vince is so stuck in his philosophies. I just don't trust them to do it for Dean no matter how big he gets and WWE has justification to not role the dice on Bryan again. Reigns isn't near ready from a skill or marketability perspective and this injury only slows the progress.* Given his momentum, if Orton brings THIS intensity and level of caring to his work, I think the guy could revitalize his career. I always say, when Orton is on it is as if he is playing chess when everyone is playing checkers. At this point, as silly as this sounds in 2014 given this stacked roster that largely isnt ready in the short term, I'd sign on for another age of Orton if there is no bullshit or coatail riding. Let Orton do his thing. *


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

If I may make a separate note, it isn't just that Brock is facing the same guy, it is that Brock could've really trickled through some of these immense talents or at least given us fresh matchups that from a timeframe we now wont get.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

kurtmangled said:


> Has Lesnar been on yet? or is he on another vacation ?


He hasn't been on since NOC.

Which is why he should drop the title at Survivor Series to Orton.


----------



## kurtmangled (Jan 5, 2010)

lmao ambrose is nuts


----------



## kurtmangled (Jan 5, 2010)

.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't think I've been this hyped for a Cell match. Not Taker/Brock. Not HHH/Batista. Not Foley/HHH or Taker/Edge or Taker/HHH. The hype for this match is carrying me through this sham of a period.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Yeah, I'm actually pretty hyped for Ambrose/Rollins. Excited for RUSEV too.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Some guys can just come back, get on that stick to use their abilities to work a concept or control an audience and never miss a beat no matter the years and instantly be better than the rest of the roster to the point where it nearly isnt fair. Mick Foley is one of these gifted people. A matter of immense talent and experience, genuinely one of the best of all time on the stick love or hate him (no reason to hate him).


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

In 2012, Foley did a fantastic hype/sell for Punk's HIAC match when he was counting the days as champion. "Do you want to be a statistic or a legend?"

This year, he works the magic again with a masterpiece sell for Ambrose/Rollins. This should have been the absolute FINAL part of the build, but sadly, we still have the main event and Smackdown.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Remember when Foley hyped Edge/Taker's HIAC? :mark:


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The build to this was absolutely amazing too. Edge's character was on another level here.


----------



## kurtmangled (Jan 5, 2010)

The problem with the new WWE guys is that the crowd doesn't really react.. or is this just a shit crowd?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The problem is that when the crowd does react, they get buried by Cena, paired up with Heyman where they get no attention, or unnecessarily job even after getting an all-time great pop after winning the WHC.

Just to make sure. We are all in agreement that Hollywood Rock is the best mic work of any wrestler, right? Any wrestler of all-time.

EDIT: :lmao Did Seth Rollins just teleport?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Tonight in Raw is Overexposing the Top Stars:

Randy Orton - appeared in 6 different segments.
Seth Rollins - appeared in 5 different segments.
John Cena - appeared in 3 different segments.
Dean Ambrose - appeared in 3 different segments.

Too much.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Who cares about this current tripe & Randy Orton talking about baseball to get heat b/c he has nothing. About to watch Halloween Havoc 95 in full for the first time in a while. Yes. Now this is worthwhile entertainment. All the closer for me to get to Starrcade...


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

so, obviously we're getting Rollins/Orton at SS rather than Orton/Lesnar or anything like that. WWE just has no patience and couldn't let this build some more.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Should have waited for Rollins to turn on Orton later. No interest in another Cena/Lesnar match.

Hoping Rollins tries to screw Orton but ends up hitting Cena instead so Orton wins.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

RatedR10 said:


> The build to this was absolutely amazing too. Edge's character was on another level here.


That one of the best segments ever, and Foley delivered an all-time promo here. Foley's done an amazing job on the Punk/Ryback and tonight's Ambrose/Rollins HIAC hype, but nothing touches this one. Edge's performance was insane, Foley's was out of this world, and combined to make a 5 star promo.


As for HIAC, please God, let Orton win HIAC. We don't need another Lesnar/Cena match. Let Orton win, make sure the Lesnar/Orton match takes place at SVS, and we're all good.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> About to watch Halloween Havoc 95 in full for the first time in a while. Yes. Now this is worthwhile entertainment. All the closer for me to get to Starrcade...


does that include the Benoit/Malenko v. Eaton and LORD Steven match from ME?


Tell me what you think of Luger/Meng. Sounds cool.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Benoit/Malenko vs. Eaton/Regal was really a bunch of blown spots, but for some reason I really liked it. You never saw some of the things they attempted in a WCW ring at the time. I don't think anything from the actual show was any good though. Maybe Mr. JL.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

sadly, with the Rollins curb stomp (which is still too early to do and flat out stupid), it seems like it'll be Rollins/Orton heading into Survivor Series unless they somehow hold off and just tease more tension heading into a WM program, which would be ideal.

If they fucking do Lesnar/Cena AGAIN fpalm Why are they so against giving Lesnar new opponents?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> does that include the Benoit/Malenko v. Eaton and LORD Steven match from ME?
> 
> 
> Tell me what you think of Luger/Meng. Sounds cool.


no, it is only the PPV. Figures a match like that would be on Main Event & not the PPV.

Luger vs Meng was dreadfully boring. So much so, that I started to play w/my cats until it finally finished.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

As much as I'd like to see Orton vs. Lesnar at Survivor Series, I think we all know that Cena's gonna win and go on to face Lesnar at the Rumble, Lesnar's gonna disappear completely until the night after Elimination Chamber, and then the build to his main event title match against Roman Reigns is gonna start.

:side:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

So, whomever wins out of Cena/Orton, gets a shot against Lesnar?

Be Cena then. This damn company.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Benoit/Malenko vs. Eaton/Regal was really a bunch of blown spots, but for some reason I really liked it. You never saw some of the things they attempted in a WCW ring at the time. I don't think anything from the actual show was any good though. Maybe Mr. JL.


Not sure it's a bunch of blown spots, as you'd call it. There's the blown double-team move early on by Benoit but, other than that, when? It's certainly high-spot and workrate heavy, but they aren't bomb-throwing for the sake of it, thankfully. That Malenko/Regal quick-pin exchange can fuck right off, though.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Please tell me they didn't do a fucking stand-off.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Dick Togo vs Antonio Honda (DDT 01.30.2011)*

x28cayb

Better late than never.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Now that's the kind of gem I'm talking about. Honda, Togo, & DDT. All :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Really good match here IMO:

*Chris Benoit vs Ric Flair (WCW Thunder 06.03.1999)*

x28crqt


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> *Dick Togo vs Antonio Honda (DDT 01.30.2011)*
> 
> x28cayb
> 
> Better late than never.


Oh shit this is the match Chis' claims is the best so far of this decade, right? Never heard of either guy, actually. I'll need to check this out as soon as I get home.



Brock said:


> Really good match here IMO:
> 
> *Chris Benoit vs Ric Flair (WCW Thunder 06.03.1999)*
> 
> x28crqt


Wow I've never even heard of this match let alone seen it. I honestly didn't know Flair worked with Benoit in WCW, I've seen a match they had in WWE but never this one. Sounds fun, I'll this this a watch too.

As always thanks for the uploads sir, they are greatly appreciated


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Finally started watching the Taker/Mankind feud. Just watched Taker vs Bradshaw Raw match where Mankind interferes.

Well KOTR is still fucking great. Just loved the opening where Taker just lays into Mankind, after being owned since Mankind debuted. Just a great big brawl, loved that piledriver by Foley too out of nowhere. Excellent.


----------



## Jingoro (Jun 6, 2012)

eddie vs rey mysterio at halloween havoc 97 via wwe network download. amazing 5 star match. couple of the moves rey did i had to rewind and watch again and still couldn't believe it. 

i actually skipped through the rest of the ppv and the cruiserweight matches were all good. the matches with the big name old farts were a complete joke. the main event was hulk hogan vs piper in a cage match. from what i saw it was a 1 star match and a boring waste of time. 2 old fucks who couldn't wrestle that well in their prime and at this point had no business in the ring. jesus, the wwe was losing to that shit?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Everyone should watch the hidden gem that Taker and Foley had on RAW in 1996. Their last match together that year and nobody talks about it. Not even cjack, who swears by it for being the GOAT feud.

Glad to see Luger vs. Meng getting hate. I was afraid that that moderator would irrationally like it because of who is in it instead of what.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Oh shit this is the match Chis' claims is the best so far of this decade, right? Never heard of either guy, actually. I'll need to check this out as soon as I get home.


An interesting choice. I'm having a hard time disputing:

x13318n

There's lots of great matches to choose from.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Spoiler: for Smackdown/HIAC



Cesaro/Ziggler in a 2 out of 3 falls is set for HIAC. Two MOTYCs on one card with Ambrose/Rollins and now this, plus Rusev/Show should be great as well. The build has been absolutely terrible but the wrestling should be good.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

RatedR10 said:


> Spoiler: for Smackdown/HIAC
> 
> 
> 
> Cesaro/Ziggler in a 2 out of 3 falls is set for HIAC. Two MOTYCs on one card with Ambrose/Rollins and now this, plus Rusev/Show should be great as well. The build has been absolutely terrible but the wrestling should be good.


Not sure if you mean the whole card or Zigs/Cesaro. I grant you the story has been hard to follow, but the story for Zigs/Cesaro is that in Cesaro's mind, Ziggler currently can't get a clean win off of him and must resort to cheating (recall the foot on the rope spot in a previous match screwing Cesaro spawning this feud and hence why Zigs lost on RAW), so that is where the stipulation comes in. If you mean the whole card: well Show/Rusev has been built pretty crappy off of the back of another horrid Show performance (someone else commented that it is unbelievable that Show can week in week out be so poor as a babyface and yet have the crowd so supportive of him), I haven't minded Ces/Zigs albeit I feel the heel/face roles given the story should be reversed, Rollins/Ambrose while losing its Feud of the decade contending luster has still when it is time to deliver been money, Orton/Cena does feel forced. Overall, not the most horrible build but yeah not the best. As you state though, Brose/Rollins has serious potential to be an absolute classic and one we look back on when viewing these two's careers as a whole years from now; Rusev/pissed off Show should be a real solid match, Zigs/Cesaro should be good and hell Orton/Cena may pull something out of the hat to make that match entertaining. Add in Mizdow TV and it really shouldn't be that poor of a show.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

IDK when or even IF this will be answered, but I feel like watching some really short and this is one of the rare times I don't want to randomly find things myself, so ***+ short matches? Under ten minutes at least? And if not *** because of their length, then enjoyable anyway.  I'll watch/write about anything (that I haven't seen or haven't seen recently or don't remember, like I'm not watching Rey/Punk or Regal/Bourne again).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Try McIntyre vs Mahal from Superstars 9/20/12. Drew really makes it good.

I'll try and think of more later.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Tajiri vs. Albert from Velocity in 2002
Undertaker vs. A-Train on Smackdown in 2003


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Everyone should watch the hidden gem that Taker and Foley had on RAW in 1996. Their last match together that year and nobody talks about it. Not even cjack, who swears by it for being the GOAT feud.
> 
> Glad to see Luger vs. Meng getting hate. I was afraid that that moderator would irrationally like it because of who is in it instead of what.


xf34qr

That the one. Looking forward to getting to it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd say Undertaker vs Mankind from Survivor Series '96 is much more forgotten & that's from a PPV. Doubles the effect.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Anyone catch the MNW Goldberg special?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Im making my way through this atm:


Spoiler: Undertaker vs Mankind



Keith_H's "History of Mankind vs. The Undertaker" DVD Compilation

Duration: 7 DVDs

VQ: VG/EX

DISC 1

1. Mankind vs. Bob Holly - Mankind's debut match - Raw 4/1/96

2. Justin Hawk Bradshaw vs. The Undertaker - Mankind attacks the Undertaker - Raw 4/1/96

3. Paul Bearer/Undertaker/Goldust Interview - Mankind comes out and puts out UT with the Mandible Claw - Raw 5/13/96

4. Paul Bearer/Undertaker Interview - Mankind comes out to attack Undertaker while he is in a casket - Raw 5/20/96

5. The Undertaker vs. Goldust (Casket Match) (Mankind runs in) – IYH: Beware of Dog 5/28/96

6. Mankind vs. The Undertaker – WWF KOTR 1996 6/23/96

7. The Undertaker vs. Goldust (Mankind runs in) - IYH: International Incident 7/21/96

8. 20 Man Battle Royal - (Mankind and UT are out early but continue to fight the entire time in the back) - Raw 8/5/96



DISC 2

9. Boiler Room Brawl: Mankind vs. The Undertaker - Summerslam 1996 8/18/96

10. Paul Bearer/Mankind Interview - Raw 8/19/96

11. WWE Title Match: Mankind vs. Shawn Michaels (Undertaker attacks Mankind after the match) - IYH: Mind Games 1996 - 9/22/96

12. Buried Alive Match: Mankind vs. The Undertaker - IYH: Buried Alive 10/20/96

13. Mankind/Undertaker Interview - Raw 11/4/96



DISC 3

14. Mankind vs. The Undertaker - Survivor Series 1996 11/17/96

15. Steve Austin vs. Mankind - (Executioner and Undertaker run in) - Raw 11/18/96

16. Mankind vs. Undertaker Hype Video – RAW 12/9/96

17. No DQ Match: Mankind vs. Undertaker - Raw 12/9/96

18. No DQ Match: Undertaker vs. The Executioner (Mankind runs in) – IYH: It’s Time 12/15/96

19. No DQ Match: Mankind and Faarooq vs. Ahmed Johnson and The Undertaker - Raw 2/3/97

20. Mankind Interview - Raw 3/10/97

21. Vader and Mankind vs. Sycho Sid and The Undertaker - Raw 3/10/97

22. Mankind Interview - Raw 3/24/97

23. Undertaker/Mankind/Paul Bearer Interview - Raw 3/24/97

24. Paul Bearer/Undertaker Interview- Mankind throws a fireball in the Undertaker's face - Raw 3/31/97

25. Mankind/Undertaker Interview - Raw 4/7/97



DISC 4

26. WWF Title Match: Mankind vs. The Undertaker - IYH: Revenge of the Taker 4/20/97

27. Mankind Interview - Raw 4/21/97

28. The Undertaker vs. Triple H - Mankind comes in and attempts to burn the Undertaker. Big brawl breaks out after the match - Raw 4/21/97

29. Triple H and Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind and The Undertaker - Where DX all began - Raw 8/18/97

30. Kane vs. Undertaker - Kane wins to become the number one with the help of Mankind. Mankind and Undertaker brawl. - Raw 6/1/98

31. Hell in a Cell: Mankind and Kane vs. Steve Austin and Undertaker - Raw 6/15/98

32. Hell in a Cell: Mankind vs. The Undertaker – WWF KOTR 1998 6/28/98

33. Undertaker vs. Kane vs. Mankind – (UT never comes to the ring. Kane turns on Mankind and wins the match but he pulls off his mask and it's the Undertaker) - Raw 7/6/98



DISC 5

34. The Undertaker and Steve Austin vs. Kane and Mankind - IYH: Fully Loaded 7/26/98

35. Mankind Interview – Heat 8/9/98

36. Mankind vs. Undertaker - Heat 8/9/98

37. Tag Team Title Match: New Age Outlaws vs. The Rock and D-Lo Brown vs. Kane and Mankind vs. Undertaker and Steve Austin - Raw 8/10/98

38. Vince/UT/Kane/Bearer/Austin Interview - UT and Kane are now united. They beat up Paul Bearer and Kane turns against Mankind - Raw 8/24/98

39. Mankind gets taken out in an ambulance/then leaves and heads back to the ring – Raw 8/24/98

40. Mankind Interview - Mankind turns face - Raw 8/24/98

41. Hell In A Cell: Kane vs. Mankind (Undertaker gets involved) - Raw 8/24/98

42. Mankind/Undertaker Interview – Raw 9/14/98

43. No DQ: Mankind vs. The Undertaker - Raw 9/14/98

44. Mankind vs. The Undertaker - Heat 12/6/98



DISC 6

45. WWF Title: Steve Austin vs. Kane vs. Mankind vs. The Undertaker - WWF Capital Carnage 12/6/98

46. The Rock and The Undertaker vs. Mankind and Steve Austin - Raw 12/7/98

47. Mankind vs. The Undertaker - Raw 3/1/99

48. The Rock/Mankind Interview - Raw 8/30/99

49. Tag Team Title Match: Mankind and The Rock vs. The Undertaker and The Big Show - Raw 8/30/99

50. Buried Alive Match: The Undertaker and The Big Show vs. Mankind and The Rock - Smackdown! 9/9/99

** BONUS HOUSE SHOW DISC **

The Undertaker vs Mankind (WWF House Show New Haven, Connecticut) 07.06.1996 (Singles)
The Undertaker vs Mankind (WWF House Show Ottawa, Ontario, Canada) 08.04.1996 (Singles)
The Undertaker vs Mankind (WWF House Show Toronto, Ontario, Canada) 08.24.1996 (Casket Match)
The Undertaker & Shawn Michaels vs Goldust & Mankind (WWF House Show Madison Square Garden, New York) 09.25.1996
The Undertaker & Sycho Sid vs Goldust & Mankind (WWF House Show Chicago) 10.25.1996
The Undertaker & Ahmed Johnson vs Mankind & Farooq (WWF House Show Toronto Skydome, Canada) 01.31.1997 (No Holds Barred match)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Those Taker/Kind house show matches sound juicy.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

"The Undertaker is nothing, he was never nothing without Paul Bearer, he'll never be nothing again."

The angle and feud is GOAT of course, but they could have kept Taker off tv until around Survivor Series, rather than him appearing the day after Summerslam.

------------------------------------

*Dean Ambrose vs CM Punk (FCW 10.21.2011)*

_(Includes Punk/Ambrose altercation)_

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wwe-m...vs-cm-punk-fcw-10-21-2011-a.html#post41017218​


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Yeah1993 said:


> IDK when or even IF this will be answered, but I feel like watching some really short and this is one of the rare times I don't want to randomly find things myself, so ***+ short matches? Under ten minutes at least? And if not *** because of their length, then enjoyable anyway.  I'll watch/write about anything (that I haven't seen or haven't seen recently or don't remember, like I'm not watching Rey/Punk or Regal/Bourne again).








Did you ever see Callihan/Butcher from 2008?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I'd say Undertaker vs Mankind from Survivor Series '96 is much more forgotten & that's from a PPV. Doubles the effect.


Even now, Taker starting the match busting out new stuff like a back body slam, and an arm takedown/submission is still like 'whoa'.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> Even now, Taker starting the match busting out new stuff like a back body slam, and an arm takedown/submission is still like 'whoa'.


I'll cosign what Hayley said, when I recently went back a few months ago and watched all 6 Taker/Mankind PPV matches in order the one that stood out as “holy shit this is great why does no one talk about this?" Is the SVS 1996 match. It's about 13-14 minutes of perfect mayhem, I loved it. I also forgot how AWESOME Takers ring gear for that match was, dude looked like a zombie batman. The Buried Alive match they had was another one that went way up for me. 

Zep did you watch the Boiler Room Brawl? If so did you like it? I feel like I'm one of the only people that genuinely loves that match. Maybe it's cause I'm a huge fan of horror movies especially 80s slasher flicks, and that's what that match reminded me of.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Zep did you watch the Boiler Room Brawl? If so did you like it? I feel like I'm one of the only people that genuinely loves that match. Maybe it's cause I'm a huge fan of horror movies especially 80s slasher flicks, and that's what that match reminded me of.


Yeah, watched it yesterday. First time iv'e seen it in years, and im not so sure i really enjoyed it TBH. It just felt 'flat' to me, yes i did take the confides of the surrounding into consideration, plus the lack of commentary and crowd (well, 3/4 were watching the action on screens i guess lol). 

After watching up until Survivor Series 1996 so far, the BRB is the weakest IMO. Maybe i need another watch of it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

BRB match sucks. Nobody likes it. Even the people who say they do. They lie.

I need a match to watch. Something awesome. Something epic. Something that didn't happen in the last 15 or so years, and didn't happen in Japan. Someone hook me up with a link to something and I'll give it a watch.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

BRB is definitely the weakest Takerkind match out there. The second 'worst' PPV match of theirs, SVS 1996, is still millions of galaxies better imho (***3/4-**** for me).

In contrast, my favorite is either of the KOTR ones, and the BEST one is Revenge Of The Taker.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I did love how Taker went after, and tried to destroy, the fingers of Mankind, esp in the Survivor Series match, and again in the NHB Raw match a month after.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Was going to recommend to Cal whatever match was the best that happened in my birth month but it's something I'm sure he's seen enough of, already. That said, what is everyone's birth month match?

** War Games '91 :*


There's a couple Windham tags that I enjoy, Vader/Hansen fucking happened(!), and there's an Onita/Goto match that I'd bet is really, really good if it was online somewhere. Pretty sure there's a Spivy match I've seen Hayley/Yeah pimp on some occasion, too.




#ROOT said:


> I need a match to watch. Something awesome. Something epic. Something that didn't happen in the last 15 or so years, and didn't happen in Japan. Someone hook me up with a link to something and I'll give it a watch.


x5dwqt_wrestlewar-1991-stan-hansen-vs-big_sport


Hansen bleeds from the mouth not two seconds after the bell rings. Could have been a super fight if the referee wasn't an idiot, and it got 5 more minutes.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:mark: VADER. Was in the mood for Vader too haha. Wanted to watch his match with BRADSHAW but for some reason it isn't on the Vader comp . And Youtube is useless and Dailymotion only seems to have some shitty quality German version of it.

Anyways, fun fight between Vader and Hansen. Agree that it needed more time and a not retarded referee .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'll dig out Vader/Bradshaw this week.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Every single Vader/Foley match is amazing.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

The Boiler Room Brawl was really awesome for like the first 5 minutes. Then I got really tired of it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Rah said:


> Was going to recommend to Cal whatever match was the best that happened in my birth month but it's something I'm sure he's seen enough of, already. That said, what is everyone's birth month match?
> 
> ** War Games '91 :*
> 
> ...



I was born in August, so every classic Summerslam match, every classic from the NJPW G1 tournament, and probably a whole bunch of AJPW stuff cause they ran tours heavy in June-July-August just about ever year.

I'm not taking your bait Cal, BRB is tits, always has been tits, and always will be tits. Only thing I'd change about it would be for them to have JR and Lawler call it on commentary, but it was kinda nifty hearing all their yelling and grunts, too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My b-day month is April so I get a bunch of great WM shit and Backlash stuff :mark:.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

By WWE alone, me being a child of February, I have stuff like Angle/Taker NWO 2006, Cena/Punk 2013, Cesaro/Zayn Arrival and Shield/Wyatts EC under my belt


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Kinda meant within the year you were born, too. :side:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh. Well, I'm from Feb. 1997, so there's this thing called VADER VS BRET VS AUSTIN VS TAKER. Ya know.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Should have made it more clear than ya 'tard.

April 1988... absolutely nothing I can think of lol.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Baba/Kobashi vs. Kawada/Misawa. I'm in the lead.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Man, HBK versus HHH in the Cell is just awful. Dragged on for way too long. Whoever gave them the thumbs up to go out there for almost 50 minutes is insane. It had it's moments, however. The back work by HHH on HBK with the chair was reminiscent of their Summerslam 2002 match. The table spot at the end was cool too. Cut 15-20 minutes off and it is a decent match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Thanks for the short matches. Will watch them whenever. I haven't seen Callian/Necro yet, Rah. I'll watch it with the rest if it's online, I can't be arsed popping the DVD in for that one match.

Guess my birth MOTN is Misawa/Williams 9/3/93. Awesome Misawa showing but could have had better. I was nine minutes away from being born in August, too. Which means Williams/Kobashi, Anjoh/Sano, Chono/Hase, Tenryu/Hashimoto, Aja/Kansai.....son of a...

Cal's winning. He has MX v. Fantastics 4/20/88 and that might not even the best match that month (I got nothing specific that's better, but who knows what I might not be thinking of).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> Cal's winning. He has MX v. Fantastics 4/20/88 and that might not even the best match that month (I got nothing specific that's better, but who knows what I might not be thinking of).


Yey .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I was actually thinking of Arn/Tully v. Luger/Windham 4/20, but MX/Fantastics is 4/26 or something and yeah, that's better.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I think if I could do some research, I might just find something on the level, or better even, than the Final Four Way, to help me out represent February 1997. Just because Cal can't win :side:.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

There is no shame in losing to me. Except for the actual shame.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Losing to you is like buying Superman 64 thinking it's a good experience there :side:.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Don't know shit about 1994, so I can't say. Heard good stuff about the RR match with Yoko and Taker, though. On the other hand, there are two remarkable events that share the same anniversary as me... Mick Foley's first title win and....













:lol


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

ATF said:


> I think if I could do some research, I might just find something on the level, or better even, than the Final Four Way, to help me out represent February 1997. Just because Cal can't win :side:.


There's Liger/Kanemoto, but I wasn't the biggest fan of that when I first watched it in early 2011. Either way nothing in Feb 97 tops Fantastics/MX.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brock said:


> Even now, Taker starting the match busting out new stuff like a back body slam, and an arm takedown/submission is still like 'whoa'.


Whole feud brought about the first real evolution of Taker. So phenomenal. He was always the best, but when he started to add more depth in his matches; shooooot. Off to the races. 

Foley was a beacon of light as the antagonist. The perfect feud.



Rah said:


> Was going to recommend to Cal whatever match was the best that happened in my birth month but it's something I'm sure he's seen enough of, already. That said, what is everyone's birth month match?
> 
> ** War Games '91 :*
> 
> ...


This is fitting b/c I'm gonna watch WrestleWar '91 either tonight or tomorrow. Not that I'm fuzzy on Vader vs Hansen or the War Games, but reliving all the rest is gonna be a joy. I hope. The Clash to start the year was pitiful. Hansen's promo or Missy Hyatt's cleavage - a toss up for the highlight.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Missy Hyatt :trips8

Put on Cena/Orton I quit to see how it holds up, and besides my network freezing  and having to take it off mid way, Cena's selling in the beginning irritated me abit. Like he was over lethargic and tiresome after two Orton moves as soon as the match started. Only a jump off the apron and neck snap off the ropes had him in end of match form laying out. 

Went and put some :flair3 afterwards


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

If you still need some matches to review Cal, I suggest watching some Dirty Pat Simmons.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Wrestlemania 13 

_Elimination Match:_
*The Godwinns w/Hillbilly Jim vs. The Headbangers vs. The New Blackjacks vs. Doug Furnas and Phil Lafon* 

I remember thinking that this was the greatest thing ever when I was a kid. I had the Wrestlemania 1-13 VHS collection and probably watched this Wrestlemania 20 times. I remember loving this match. Not really sure why I liked it so much. It started off OK enough, lots of quick tags so everyone got a chance to be in the match. Bradshaw had a really funny moment in the match when he tagged in a Godwinn while he was in control of the match, backed up, and then sucker punched him as he got in the ring. Blackjacks and Furnas/Lafon fight outside the ring and Bradshaw shoves a ref and gets DQed. For no reason at all Furnas and Lafon are also DQed. The crowd was pissed when they started to leave. Then we were left with the Headbangers and Godwinns and it was a lot better than I expected. There was a lot of stiffness from the Godwinns and there was a surprising amount of intensity. They got about 5 minutes or so together and I thought it was pretty OK. Lafon and Furnas being DQed for no reason was really fucking stupid but it was otherwise a decent match.
**¾ *


_Intercontinental Championship Match:_
*The Sultan w/The Iron Sheik and Bob Backlund vs. Rocky Maivia(c)* 

The Rock is horrible to watch at this point in his career. He does 1 move to start the match and then Sultan controls the rest of the match. Some weak offense from Rock interrupts a very uninteresting control segment. When Rock does make a full comeback he just sort of shrugs off everything and starts throwing punches. You get a minute or two that I would call decent before the Rock wins with a horrible rollup. When the Iron Sheik out pops the entire match by putting Rock in the Camel Clutch after the match you know you didn’t see a very good match.
***


*Hunter Hearst Helmsley w/Chyna vs. Goldust w/Marlena *

Things started off strong with Goldust getting in a lot of offense early on, it’s just fun to watch Triple H sell a beating. Triple H obviously takes control of the match and I thought things went downhill during this part of the match. I understand that the heel is supposed to slow things down when he controls the match but this was just too much. It felt like just lengthy hold after lengthy hold after Triple H took control. It just isn’t that great to watch. Goldust’s gradual comeback that led to him having the match won was very well done because it was done in small steps. He would get a move or two in, then he and Triple H would both take a bump, and then he would finally take control of the match and be set up for the win. Chyna didn’t play a part until the end and it was also done in a cool way. She just stood like a statue for the entire match and stared down Marlena. She didn’t get involved until Triple H needed help. She approach Marlena and that distracted Goldust just enough for Triple H to get the win. I also have to say that the bearhug Chyna gave to Marlena was just amazing, it really looked like she was going to break her in half. Good match but a better control segment would have done wonders for it.
***¾ *


_WWF Tag Team Championship Match:_
*Mankind and Vader w/Paul Bearer vs. The British Bulldog and 2-Time Slammy Award Winning Owen Hart(c)*

I’m surprised how one sided the whole match was. Vader and Owen had an awesome exchange to start things off. Foley and Bulldog get involved early on and they have a really fun period of back and forth. Bulldog suplexes Vader, Foley takes bumps like a pro, Owen flies around, good stuff. So the match was even for a little bit and it was a lot of fun. Then Vader and Foley start working a control segment on Bulldog. At this point you realize that Owen and Bulldog are basically playing pure babyfaces here which was also surprising. Owen plays the role of the hot tag and they do a good job of building his entry into the match as Bulldog takes a beating. Owen gets the hot tag and he goes crazy for a few minutes. It wasn’t long but he reached an awesome height as a face. It’s hard to really describe what I mean but the best way to say it is that at one point I wanted to jump up and cheer for Owen. Owens offense gets cut off and then he ends up the face in peril with Bulldog as the hot tag. 

Owen takes his beating well from both Vader and Foley. Foley and Vader just beating the shit out of Owen in front of his parents in the front row was certainly a high point of the match. Bulldog does well with the hot tag and this time it really does lead to things breaking down. Owen manages to go toe to toe with Vader and actually get the best of him as the match wears down but Foley had already locked in the Mandible Claw and they spilled outside the ring and were counted out. The ending was kind of weak and I thought Owen and Bulldog needed more offense at the end but everything else was very good. I would love to see more from any combination of these guys. 
****¼* 


_Submission Match:_
*“Stone Cold” Steve Austin vs. Bret “The Hitman” Hart*
_Special Referee: Ken Shamrock_ 

I hadn’t seen this match in a while and it was really nothing like I was expecting it to be. Austin had a lot more offense than I previously remembered and there was a lot more heat on Hart at the start of the match. That being said I still love this match and consider it to be a classic. The match starts off with some wild and out of control brawling. Nobody really takes control of the match but they certainly get across to me that they hate each other. It’s just a total war around the ring and into the crowd. Once they get back into the ring they take you on a rollercoaster ride where they trade control of the match and each time you think that this is going to be the big comeback from Austin or that this is where Bret is going to take control of the match and put Austin away. 

The double turn is what this match is really known for and in words I can’t really describe Austin’s character in the match. He was clearly the babyface in the match but he didn’t do anything different than what he would do as a heel. But he was still clearly the face. It’s just the way that he carried himself and his body language that conveyed that to me. He just felt different. On the other hand, Bret just continued his fantastic story of getting more and more pissed off with everything. It was a continuation of sorts from Survivor Series where he would just get more and more aggressive in his offense. 

Then you have one of the best blade job’s every that lead to a finish that is still talked about today. The Sharpshooter finish is amazing and one of the best endings to a match that you will come across. But everything between the blade job and the end is also great. Bret goes full heel really with his attack on Austin’s leg as he as he uses a chair on his knee. There was also a really underrated moment when Austin was getting beat badly, I hadn’t remembered the match so I thought Bret was going to lock him in the Sharpshooter soon. Well before that happened Austin fires up with this great comeback that made the crowd believe in him again for a little bit. Again, he was CLEARLY the face but he hits a blatant low blow to get some momentum. 

Bell to bell this was always interesting and one of the more impressive accomplishments in a match. I was also really happy to see how non-formulaic this was. We didn’t get the crazy long control segment with Austin coming back but falling short in the end. We got a rollercoaster ride where we saw Austin gradually getting more cheers until the end when Harts gets booed like crazy as he leaves and Austin leaving to the crowd chanting his name. Another masterpiece between Austin and Bret. I’m not going to give it the full 5 only because there were a few instances where Austin should have sold his leg more after all the work that Hart put in on it. But that’s my only complaint and it’s a minor one because the story of this match goes well beyond just leg work.
*****¾ *


_Chicago Street Fight:_
*The Nation of Domination (Farooq, Savio Vega, and Crush) w/The rest of the Nation of Domination vs. Ahmed Johnson and The Legion of Doom*

In theory it seems like a bad idea to have this follow Bret/Austin but it worked really well here. The match was quick and just a blast to watch. All of the Nation members were getting involved so there was always something going on in the match. They hit each other with all sorts of stuff, the Nation brings a noose to the match, there’s a fire extinguisher. It’s fun and never drags on. Also Colt Cabana gets his Wrestlemania moment in the beginning of the match which is just hilarious to watch. 
*****


_WWF Championship Match:_
*Sycho Sid(c) vs. The Undertaker* 

I watched this not too long ago when I did a full review of the streak. I really dislike the match a lot and I’m not watching it again. I did pull up my old review of the match to see the rating though. I’ll trust my past judgement.
**¾ *​
Well you have a classic match and some good stuff spread out over the rest of the card. A bad main events keeps this from being on that different level of great Wrestlemanias.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Drew McIntyre v. Jindy Blender Something or rather (SuperStars 9/20/12)
Fuck me this video of SuperStars is weird. Like it's missing half of it's frames or something. Uploaded by WWE, too. I never thought Jender Canary ever offered anything to WWE TV. I first saw him when he showed up as Khali's son in law or whatever it was and he was like ''I'm rich and I own you.'' His promos sucked a dick and then I saw him in the ring and he did almost nothing. Shitty look, too. Looks like a vermin. I'm a nice guy. Still with all the criticism I have of Jander Duckney, he at least added one thing - an opportunity for McIntyre to work someone the same size as him. Everybody's seen McIntyre against guys that aren't small, but Drew always looks bigger, mostly because he's so focused on working on top. He here's babyface or something and straight-up Ricky Mortoning all over the place early on. Holy fuck he split-legged jumped over Wendy McEmber running underneath him. I liked his selling of the supposedly broken wrist enough that I think he'd have potential as a Christian-ish babyface, but his comebacks are a little....weak. Not weak-looking (NOTHING he does is weak-looking), but it feels like he was never taught how to come back from heel working. Even his immediate shine was kind of random and almost unfitting. All right match, though. 

Tajiri v. Albert (Velocity 6/29/02)
Tajiri ducking Albert's swings and eventually getting clubbed by one was pretty fucking awesome. This was less about weeble-wobble selling than I thought it might be (Albert went down HARD on a kick near the corner pretty early), and more of a "Tajiri's survival'' match. Kind of impressive that Tajiri convincingly pinned Albert less than minute after he failed to damage him at all. Tajiri could have sold more to really put this over the top, but IDK how that would have affected the pace. Can't complain. Was a good pace. I wonder if Tajiri had a single bad match in WWF/E. NOT ADDI- NVM, HABIT.

The Undertaker v. The A-Train (SmackDown 3/6/03)
Taker has become a mentor to....who is that? Nathan Jones? The Big Show comes out with Albert and looks ridiculous in sneakers. Albert "Hippo Bernard" Trainsai was a lot more intense than in the Tajiri match; I think he's better suited for slugfest matches or matches where he's chucking bombs. Show and Jones have all kind of interruptions and Taker takes one of the most utterly bizarre looking landings to and out-you-go clothesline I've ever seen. Good bit of this was punches and stomps but they're good punches and stomps and the stumbling around by Taker is great. Show gets a billion interferences and Jones gets so fed up with the last one (Show was literally in the ring elbow-dropping Taker) that he just chucks the ref three-quarters the distance across the ring and goes at them. This was kind of awesome. How many matches did Taker have in 2003? Looked really good that year.

Rey Mysterio v. JBL (SmackDown 5/13/04)
I have never even HEARD of this. And it. Was. Great. JBL is such a tremendous asshole and he looks like eight times the asshole he normally doe when he has Rey bumping for him. One of the youtube comments on the videos says JBL is a "modern day Stan Hansen", and with that not exactly being an uncommon thing to hear, why does anybody think that? The similarities end at Texan, and using a clothesline for a finish. JBL is more ass-kicker coward dick bully, Hansen is just ass-kicker. And I'm pretty sure Hansen never got fooled by a cat-and-mouse game in a match (which JBL did here and it was amusing). JBL avoids the post-619 jump thingy and then destroys Rey with the steps, announce table, a head-bounce off of the ring bell, and a monster clothesline to end it. Like after a bunch of regular Rey good-work stuff. In summary this fucking rocked. Where it came from and why it disappeared off of radars is beyond me.




#ROOT said:


> I need a match to watch. Something awesome. Something epic. Something that didn't happen in the last 15 or so years, and didn't happen in Japan. Someone hook me up with a link to something and I'll give it a watch.


Missed this post earlier. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1ri30v_the-steiner-brothers-vs-the-quebecers-raw-13-09-1993_sport

come to think of it that might be my birth MOTM.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sweet, he actually reviewed the matches I suggested. Undertaker had quite a lot of matches in 2003. At least by his standards. I remember there being a handicap match involving him fighting Brock and Big and it ruled.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

JBL's offense rather than persona. He's a Texan, throws a hard lariat, and is rugged, yada yada BS. More similar to Hansen than the average pool of workers out there. I can understand it. Think Bradshaw circa '98 and it's easier to see rather than while he was JBL.

That Drew match is the yearly bizarre thing WWE does in testing the waters for a turn only to not go through w/it. Similar to the awesome slugfest w/Gallows vs Archer in 2010 and Gallows was playing to the crowd, getting ready for a babyface run. Then he was released. Scumbags.


----------



## 96powerstroker (Mar 13, 2013)

Taker had probably the most matches of his career in 03 & most were good to great.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Ranking the Cena/Orton series

Breaking Point 2009/I Quit: *****1/2*
Summerslam 2007: ******
No Way Out 2008: ****3/4*
Hell in a Cell 2009: ***1/2
Bragging Rights 2009/Iron Man: ***1/4
TLC 2013/Unification Match: ***
Royal Rumble 2014: **1/2
Summerslam 2009: **
Unforgiven 2007: *

Only the ones in bold would I recommend watching if you haven't seen them, IMO. Kind of sad that they have only struck gold a few times with all the chances they have had against one another. The ones towards the bottom of the list are utter doo doo and should be avoided at all costs. Unforgiven was basically just a short match to further the feud that ended up getting cut short anyway. Summerslam 2009 had all of those restarts where Orton kept cheating to win/getting disqualified. We all know what happened at the Rumble this year, although that had the stealing each other's finisher segment which is always fun. Overall, a disappointing feud over the years. Still love Orton though and Cena is good too. Just against other people.

I Quit match is the pinnacle of their series and the storytelling in that match is top notch. They haven't been able to surpass that and I doubt that they ever will. Summerslam 2007, ironically their first PPV encounter, was one of their best. Everything in this match is crisp and there were no sloppy moments at all. Orton just plays his ice man role so good in this match and everyone was dying for Orton to take the title from Cena, so the crowd response helps this one as well.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If we're going by PPV stuff alone:

SummerSlam '07: ***
Unforgiven '07: *
No Way Out '08: ****
SummerSlam '09: *1/4
Breaking Point '09: ****1/4
Hell In A Cell '09: **
Bragging Rights '09: ***1/4
TLC '13: **1/2
Royal Rumble '14: DUD

Yikes. A few good/great matches but an extremely unimpressive whole. God, please make it worth this Sunday. ESPECIALLY if they're going w/the stupid-ass idea of giving it the Main Event slot over Ambrose/Rollins.


----------



## WWE2014 (Jan 4, 2014)

I'll just say this, since no- one here seems to have ever talked about it. There are some JBL vs Hardcore Holly matches from SmackDown! 2004 (like 3 match series) which from what I've seen on this thread, you guys would like, I think.

It's also good for me to watch because both of them are assholes in real life, so seeing them beat each other up (remember they are both stiff wrestlers) is great to watch, LOL.

They aren't that long either, so it's easier to watch.

xng3f7

xnl0en

Also the promo before the 2nd match is hilarious, LOL.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Holly and JBL beating the piss out of each other? I'M IN!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

OH. MY. SHITBALLS.

Please tell me THIS IS WORTHWHILE:


Cause FINLAY VS TAJIRI FOR 30 MINUTES.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Of course it's worth it. Finally got around to watching it about a month ago despite downloading it about a year ago lol.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

It's better than you can even imagine it being, ATF. Please watch the post-match stuff, as it's the cherry on top. If you don't shed manly tears, you don't love wrestling.



EDIT: I was going to place my review for the match here, but rereading the 2012 MotYC thread to find it, I came across Woolcock (Segunda Caida at the time) being called out for hating Elgin/Richards. Apart from attacking the guy for over-playing his criticisms (after purely expounding on what he felt were negatives), he had to differentiate himself from Phil Schneider (Segunda Caida blog writer), an apparent contrarian, only to then be called a cribber of WKO/Phil's opinions. Magical highlight was Wool's review of Elgins/Richards being worse and less respectable than Meltzer's due to it being less "organic" and lacking "proper build". :lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Welp, this is certainly on my playlist. I just won't cry, though :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So yeah those Holly/JBL matches are pretty sweet.


----------



## WWE2014 (Jan 4, 2014)

There's another match, which is the blow-off hardcore match.

I couldn't find a video of the match but you can watch the match at the end of this video, somewhere (also another hilarious JBL Interview somewhere at 24 minutes).

http://m.56.com/view/id-MjIzMTYyMjE.html


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Yeah1993 said:


> I haven't seen Callian/Necro yet, Rah. I'll watch it with the rest if it's online, I can't be arsed popping the DVD in for that one match.



Video's 14 minutes, so not quite within the bracket you wanted, but it's a corker. Lemme know if it doesn't work, I'll up it to Youtube.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WWE2014 said:


> There's another match, which is the blow-off hardcore match.
> 
> I couldn't find a video of the match but you can watch the match at the end of this video, somewhere (also another hilarious JBL Interview somewhere at 24 minutes).
> 
> http://m.56.com/view/id-MjIzMTYyMjE.html


:mark: nice one, cheers. Match begins around 48 minutes in .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Vader vs Bradshaw (In Your House: Breakdown)*

x28h971

Here you go Cal.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Already watched the match last night. Downloaded the full PPV .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Git.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Dammit I really want SD 04 on DVD now . Only got the first 4 months atm I think. But seeing those JBL/Holly matches and the JBL/Rey match makes me think that there might be a bunch of "hidden gems" on the show throughout the year, despite being overshadowed by EVOLURAW.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Well, I skimmed through the Smackdown cards for 2004 and put together a list of matches that might be good:


Tajiri vs Rey Mysterio. January 1, 2004
Rey Mysterio vs Akio January 8, 2004
Jamie Noble vs Tajiri January 15, 2004
Rey Mysterio vs Tajiri February 12, 2004
Eddie Guerrero vs Shelton Benjamin March 11, 2004
Rey Mysterio vs The Big Show March 18, 2004
Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio March 18, 2004
Eddie Guerrero vs Booker T March 25, 2004
Eddie Guerrero vs The Big Show April 15, 2004
John Layfield Bradshaw vs El Gran Luchadore April 22, 2004
John Bradshaw Layfield vs Rey Mysterio May 13, 2004
The Undertaker vs John Cena June 24, 2004
John Bradshaw Layfield vs Spike Dudley July 1, 2004
John Bradshaw Layfield vs Eddie Guerrero July 15, 2004 --->> Kurt Angle reveal/cage match
Kurt Angle vs Rey Mysterio August 26, 2004
Kurt Angle vs Eddie Guerrero September 2, 2004
John Bradshaw Layfield vs Hardcore Holly October 14, 2004
Billy Kidman & Spike Dudley vs Rey Mysterio & Chavo Guerrero November 11, 2004 - eh
Rey Mysterio & Rob Van Dam vs Booker T & Eddie Guerrero December 30, 2004 - eh


The last two are solely there because the recapper mentioned them being "incredible", not that I'd hazard them being so but you never know. Eddie's mainly working one of the Bashams or Luther Reigns for the majority of the year, when not teaming with Rey, so I'm not sure that's anything to go out your way for. Peak Eddie and he's kinda wasted. Eh. Velocity is mainly "we didn't have anything for you this week, so have a match with a random", ranging from odd tags to kinda cool sounding cruiser sprints. Might be of worth, if that's your thing.

In essence, too much Dudleys, Chavo + tags ruining everyone's time.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Willing to take a match request if i have it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Flair/Steamboat Boogie Jam ? Its on Ricky's DVD i think


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Eva Marie said:


> Flair/Steamboat Boogie Jam ? Its on Ricky's DVD i think


I'll dig the dvd out the weekend.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rah said:


> EDIT: I was going to place my review for the match here, but rereading the 2012 MotYC thread to find it, I came across Woolcock (Segunda Caida at the time) being called out for hating Elgin/Richards. Apart from attacking the guy for over-playing his criticisms (after purely expounding on what he felt were negatives), he had to differentiate himself from Phil Schneider (Segunda Caida blog writer), an apparent contrarian, only to then be called a cribber of WKO/Phil's opinions. Magical highlight was Wool's review of Elgins/Richards being worse and less respectable than Meltzer's due to it being less "organic" and lacking "proper build". :lmao


I'm sad to say I remember this. What was that dude saying? We didn't like wrestling b/c we thought Richards/Elgin sucked? Wait was it even "we"? I know there was a Richards/Elgin thing with WOOLCOCK and I and a few others (Cody and Seabs, I think?) saying it was shit and getting flack for it. 



Thanks for Sami/Necro. Might watch it tonight.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I feel so sorry Cal. With the delay of the Network, he still has to download shows lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Damn me not having to pay to watch wrestling!!! 

If I wanted the network I could get it any time, I have a VPN and shit. But... fuck paying... however much it is ($9.97, right? ) when I can get everything for freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. Or have tons of it on dvd/bluray. And a hell of a lot more that isn't on the network and probably won't ever see the light of day on the network .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Network over here would be like $10.50. That's a double-digit dollaric (now a word) value. I love the idea of the Network but still have little idea how the thing even works. I'd probably prefer it if they just made it a pay-to-access youtube channel. At least that I'd understand. Though watching long amounts of wrestling on a computer isn't my thing. Last time I did it was probably 2010. I've never watched a full show on a computer. I get restless and uncomfortable.


so like how many people watched that awesome rey/jbl


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I watched it . Was awesome. JBL fucking murdered poor little Rey Rey.

And you can watch the network on your tv through a console btw. And it's not a hard concept to understand. It's like netflix for wwe. Search for something, click to watch it. Simples. Or watch something as they air it live, like NXT and shit (or watch it later when you want). Unless you live in Canada then you get fuck all :lmao. Wouldn't be surprised if the UK got something similar, with it being a premium Sky channel. Not that I care lol.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

How the hell do you guys not know how to use the Network when they inform you how to use it every show? That problem is on you. I still get nightmares over that terrible Bellas airline attendant promo instructing us on how to use the damn thing.

There is a JBL vs. Spike Dudley match in 2004 that I remember being really good. Rah's list is also missing out on Undertaker vs. John Cena. Might be my choice for Smackdown MOTY in 2004. Hmm, there's also Dudley Boys vs. Kidman/London. And I remember Eddie and Shelton having a kickass match. Smackdown in 04 has a bad rep, but I remember liking it when I watched it in my innocent youth. Perhaps I was a complete dumbass at the time, but I would certainly take 2004 Smackdown over a bunch of other wrestling programs in other periods of time.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Where can I see what programmes my country will get when The WWE Network rolls out? From what I understand, it's just PPVs which makes little sense as I get that free via TV, already.




funnyfaces1 said:


> There is a JBL vs. Spike Dudley match in 2004 that I remember being really good. Rah's list is also missing out on Undertaker vs. John Cena. Might be my choice for Smackdown MOTY in 2004. Hmm, there's also Dudley Boys vs. Kidman/London. And I remember Eddie and Shelton having a kickass match. Smackdown in 04 has a bad rep, but I remember liking it when I watched it in my innocent youth. Perhaps I was a complete dumbass at the time, but I would certainly take 2004 Smackdown over a bunch of other wrestling programs in other periods of time.


1) Recap said Spike/JBL went a minute. NOPE WENT 13. Whoever runs ObsessedWithWrestling should get canned.

2) Cena/Taker being good shocks me, but I'll add that to the list

3) Wondered about putting Eddie/Shelton on. Thought it went ages (recapper said it was long but great) yet it's 10 minutes. Adding


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

#ROOT said:


> And you can watch the network on your tv through a console btw. And it's not a hard concept to understand. It's like netflix for wwe. Search for something, click to watch it. Simples. Or watch something as they air it live, like NXT and shit (or watch it later when you want). Unless you live in Canada then you get fuck all :lmao. Wouldn't be surprised if the UK got something similar, with it being a premium Sky channel. Not that I care lol.


Like a PS3? Cool. I'll hop on that one day if they put enough older stuff on there in this country. If they haven't already. Again, I'm pretty clueless when it comes to this thing.



funnyfaces1 said:


> How the hell do you guys not know how to use the Network when they inform you how to use it every show? That problem is on you. I still get nightmares over that terrible Bellas airline attendant promo instructing us on how to use the damn thing


I would have to watch the shows for that to be a factor. I watched Dean Ambrose pulled at the testicles of a dummy twice this week. I won't let my eyeballs suffer that shit regularly.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

If you have Apple TV you can watch the network on that. I like the layout on Apple TV.

That said, I only use the Network for PPVs :lmao


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I watch the Network on my TV through my laptop. I hardly use it tbh except for PPVs and every once in a while when I want to check out match. I mostly watch the indies which is why I rarely use it. There's just too many damn promotions to follow. I ain't got time for WWE except on a Monday and when there's a PPV.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Holy crap, that Evan Stays TRIPPY guy is here.

Who among us is educated in Bill Watts Mid-South material? I hate Watts more than any being in wrestling, but I guess I should give the man another shot based on his most lauded work.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I'm sad to say I remember this. What was that dude saying? We didn't like wrestling b/c we thought Richards/Elgin sucked? Wait was it even "we"? I know there was a Richards/Elgin thing with WOOLCOCK and I and a few others (Cody and Seabs, I think?) saying it was shit and getting flack for it.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for Sami/Necro. Might watch it tonight.



I watched Elgin/Richards Showdown in the Sun for the 1st time not too long ago while doing my project to watch/review all of Meltzers 5-star matches. For the first 8-10 minutes I was thinking "Huh, this is actually pretty decent". Then the last 15 minutes happened and I'm pretty sure the match concluded with me repeatedly bashing my head into a wall. Never in my life have I seen such an atrocious display of the false finish-no sell-false finish sequence spamming in my entire life. They literally spend damn near 10 minutes trading monster moves, popping right back up after the 2 and 7/8ths count, then the other guy hits a monster move. I have no idea how that is considered good wrestling to anyone. Just thinking about it makes my head hurt. I think I'll watch that Finlay/Tajiri match now:|


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I watched Elgin/Richards Showdown in the Sun for the 1st time not too long ago while doing my project to watch/review all of Meltzers 5-star matches. For the first 8-10 minutes I was thinking "Huh, this is actually pretty decent". Then the last 15 minutes happened and I'm pretty sure the match concluded with me repeatedly bashing my head into a wall. Never in my life have I seen such an atrocious display of the false finish-no sell-false finish sequence spamming in my entire life. They literally spend damn near 10 minutes trading monster moves, popping right back up after the 2 and 7/8ths count, then the other guy hits a monster move. I have no idea how that is considered good wrestling to anyone. Just thinking about it makes my head hurt. I think I'll watch that Finlay/Tajiri match now:|


I had the exact reaction you did. The first few minutes were fine. The rest was nonsense. It is nowhere NEAR the worst false-finish no-sell spam in a match, though. Seemed actually a little tame compared to other Davey Richards stuff. I remember the first Richards match I watched was him v. Roddy Strong. I couldn't watch wrestling for three weeks after that. Not kidding.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Holy crap, that Evan Stays TRIPPY guy is here.
> 
> Who among us is educated in Bill Watts Mid-South material? I hate Watts more than any being in wrestling, but I guess I should give the man another shot based on his most lauded work.


85 Mid-South might the best year for any promotion ever. Why do you hate Watts?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ah, Elgin/Richards brings back so much memories. I remember one guy telling me that the commentary makes the match that much better :lol

I think Davey Richards sucks because he was pushed way too hard in his first year in pro wrestling. Dragon gave him too much in a short space of time making him think he stupid shtick of kicks is good wrestling.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I had the exact reaction you did. The first few minutes were fine. The rest was nonsense. It is nowhere NEAR the worst false-finish no-sell spam in a match, though. Seemed actually a little tame compared to other Davey Richards stuff. I remember the first Richards match I watched was him v. Roddy Strong. I couldn't watch wrestling for three weeks after that. Not kidding.
> 
> 
> 
> 85 Mid-South might the best year for any promotion ever. Why do you hate Watts?


I've seen maybe, 5-6 Davey Richards matches and one of them was the pretty great Richards/Steen ROH title match, so I'm not really familiar with his style other than he seems to think that kicking someone 1000 times makes a match good. It's just that Showdown in the Sun match was the most egregious example of false finish/no sell spamming I've ever seen. At first it was actually funny, then it got depressing, then it started giving me nervous twitches. That's one match I'm 100% sure I'm never watching ever again,

Made it through 5 minutes of Finlay/Tajiri before my stupid girlfriend came home and ruined everything by insisting we watch shitty ass American Horror Story. Girls are the worst.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I could never really get into Davey Richards. But I also haven't seen that many of his matches. They felt like a chore since most of them are really long and I wasn't impressed originally.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I recall Davey Richards having an amazing match with KENTA in 2009. Haven't seen it in years, so I probably will hate it now. But not as much as my hate for Bill Watts.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

KENTA/Richards sounds like either a big hit or a COLOSSAL miss. Probably more of a miss than a hit though.

Still haven't gotten to watch Finlay/Tajiri yet, but I certainly will tonight. In the meanwhile, I wanna do a little game like the one Rah had - only instead of birth months, let's do birthDAYS. What's the greatest match that ever took place in your birthday?

Me? February 19th... Well, Angle/Taker from NWO 2006 is certainly the top contender. Although there is a Kobashi & Asako/Kawada & Omori tag from 94 which I've never watched, if it delievers it might just top it.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

I love the Davey Richards/Tyler Black match from Death Before Dishonor VIII. Don't know what the general consensus is on that match. Hate Richards vs Edwards and Richards vs Elgin though.


I just rewatched Cesaro/Zayn from Arrival and it was pretty much perfect. Think I'll bump it from ****3/4 to a full five coz you know, stars. I actually watched all of NXT Arrival including the preshow, where they ran a 3-4 minute video package towards the end, highlighting their series in NXT and the leadup to this match, and it really helped me appreciate the match more as a continuation of the story.


Will rewatch Wyatts/Shield 1 today to see how it holds up and which is better. Top 2 WWE matches of the year for me.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I recall Davey Richards having an amazing match with KENTA in 2009. Haven't seen it in years, so I probably will hate it now. But not as much as my hate for Bill Watts.


I bet you'll find that most of the booking stuff you "hate" about Bill Watts from WCW was actually stuff done by Dusty Rhodes and not Bill Watts.

Now if you hate early to mid 1980s Mid South, then I guess yea it's fair to say you hate Bill Watts. But I don't know how you can hate that stuff, I haven't seen all that much of it but from the set I have it I really dig it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Dusty was the one that ruined 1992?

There's a 1985 Mid South TV torrent on XWT that looks awesome. That roster is super stacked. Roberts, Flair, Michaels, Dibiase, Reed, Duggan, RnR, JYD, Williams,Zeb.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I recall Davey Richards having an amazing match with KENTA in 2009. Haven't seen it in years, so I probably will hate it now.


That from Supercard of Honor? Have it on ROH's KENTA DVD and will get to that match soon.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bored. Link me to a match someone please. Something from the US and a nice hard hitting FIGHT, and not something you'll be certain I've seen .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Its from ROH Official Channel. I love it, so.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Not sure anything noteworthy happened on one of my birthdays.

Considering the time zone differences, I was probably born as Finlay/Liger happened back in 1991 (February 6th) which I suppose is cool. There's also the first Fujiwara/Inoki match in 1986 (was that good? I don't recall) and a Dragon Gate match in 2004 that made the DVDVR Best Of 2000s set. That wasn't very good, though.

Edit: Heavenly Bodies vs Rock & Roll Express happened in 1993. Well, fuck.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Mark Henry and I share the same birthday. And the first One Night Stand was held on that day in 2005. That's it, I think.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Heavenlies/Rock n' Roll rules. 1993 has so many epic Tag gems. Does anybody recall Steiners/Heavenlies from that year's (sucky but still) SummerSlam event? Cause that rocked too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Was that the 'loser must bunjie jump' match? 

Cena/Taker had a match on Smackdown in 2003 too, anyone know the date of that.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

They had two matches on Smackdown in 2003, I think.

4/10/03
8/7/03


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Punk's shoot happened on my birthday, thats all I know.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Dusty was the one that ruined 1992?
> 
> There's a 1985 Mid South TV torrent on XWT that looks awesome. That roster is super stacked. Roberts, Flair, Michaels, Dibiase, Reed, Duggan, RnR, JYD, Williams,Zeb.



I don't think anyone "ruined" WCW in 1992 that's one of the better years your gonna find for wrestling. Dusty was the head writer/Booker/creative dude during that time, yes. When Bill Watts got hired they asked him if he would fire Dusty Rhodes or if he could work with him, Bill had a long history with Dusty and said he would keep him as the head Booker and Bill would be the executive producer/president guy. I don't know who was responsible for what but if you know Dusty Rhodes style of booking you can pick out the stuff he booked fairly well. Dusty was notorious for starting angles then not knowing what to do with them so he'd just drop them and act like it didn't happen.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

So Dusty was to blame for one of the GOAT angles, The Dangerous Alliance, petering out then?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I also liked Richards/Black from DBH tbh. Richards/Edwards from BITW 2011(the five star match that everyone raved about) is 40 minutes of pure stupidity. 

I don't know what it is but people tend to overrate the fuck out of indy wrestling. I look at some ratings and it's like there's an automatic one star just for being an indy match. Have you guys ever visited the ROH forum? Every other match is ****3/4 on there. It's just ridiculous.

But yeah, opinions, whatever.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WORKRATE~! is usually why people throw millions of stars at Indy matches (not everyone of course, but in general I'd say that's the reason). Guys doing reversals on the mat, being all JAPAN STIFF~! with each other then kicking out of a ton of finishers seems to be the main attraction for Indy fans nowadays. When done RIGHT those things can combine into one hell of a fucking match. But more often than not it's done wrong. Completely. And it sucks. Bad. But people still splooge over it. Which is fine for them. But ain't my thing. I'm a more sophisticated splooger. Takes something special for me to unload my splooge.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Two gems from Sabu on Talk is Jericho today:

When Jericho asks who Sabu liked to work in ECW, Sabu replies after RVD: "I hate to say this, but Sandman. When Sandman was drunk he was alright. When he was sober he was terrible!"

Sabu while working in Japan gets a tryout from WWE. Sabu asks how much it pays. The tryout pays 500 bucks. Sabu goes to the tryout and gets asked if he would like to join the roster. SABU DECLINES A ROSTER SPOT AFTER A TRYOUT! Sabu is then asked why he came here. Sabu replies "I wanted the payoff" Now, on the surface that may not seem that funny, but consider the individual we are talking about, the company we are talking about in relation to where the individual worked and the style he worked, and just the sheer absurdity of what I capitalized, and that is one of the best wrestling stories I have heard in some time.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

#ROOT said:


> Bored. Link me to a match someone please. Something from the US and a nice hard hitting FIGHT, and not something you'll be certain I've seen .


Did you watch the Steiners/Quebecers?




My Birthday MOTDate is Jumbo/Misawa 9/1/90.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Downloading it right now .

Only thing I know that has happened in wrestling on my birthday is that DX invaded Nitro one time in 1998. April 27th it was.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Alrighty, watched that Steiners/Quebecers match. Some good shit right there. Wish they'd explained the rules like, right at the start though, instead of just saying seemingly random rules during the match as they happened . Quebecers were on fucking fire with their double team shit. :lmao at Rick jumping off the ropes and seemingly purposely landing on one of the Quebecer's legs with his ribs... then kinda pretended like nothing happened .


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

WrestlingOracle said:


> Two gems from Sabu on Talk is Jericho today:
> 
> When Jericho asks who Sabu liked to work in ECW, Sabu replies after RVD: "I hate to say this, but Sandman. When Sandman was drunk he was alright. When he was sober he was terrible!"
> 
> Sabu while working in Japan gets a tryout from WWE. Sabu asks how much it pays. The tryout pays 500 bucks. Sabu goes to the tryout and gets asked if he would like to join the roster. SABU DECLINES A ROSTER SPOT AFTER A TRYOUT! Sabu is then asked why he came here. Sabu replies "I wanted the payoff" Now, on the surface that may not seem that funny, but consider the individual we are talking about, the company we are talking about in relation to where the individual worked and the style he worked, and just the sheer absurdity of what I capitalized, and that is one of the best wrestling stories I have heard in some time.


That is such an ECW/Sabu thing to do. I love it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Wonder if Ambrose will get fined for that Piledriver on Raw. :side:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Before that, they should fine Kane for sending Cena head first into a chair :lmao


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> So Dusty was to blame for one of the GOAT angles, The Dangerous Alliance, petering out then?


Obviously there is no way for me to know for sure without sitting down with Dusty and Bill and asking them but if I had to bet, yes absolutely I think it was a Dusty thing. He was awesome at creating this big rivalry/angle and building it from the ground up, but once it got up and running he usually didn't know what to do from there. That's why we got the Dusty Finish, a way to maintain the status quo and never really advance any storyline. Don't get me wrong I think Dusty could create some great shit he was just like a lot of creative guys in that eventually the tank runs dry and you need some help from someone who is in charge. Bill failed to help in that regard I think.

Again, just my theories or opinions, I'm not some knowledgeable insider or anything 



#ROOT said:


> WORKRATE~! is usually why people throw millions of stars at Indy matches (not everyone of course, but in general I'd say that's the reason). Guys doing reversals on the mat, being all JAPAN STIFF~! with each other then kicking out of a ton of finishers seems to be the main attraction for Indy fans nowadays. When done RIGHT those things can combine into one hell of a fucking match. But more often than not it's done wrong. Completely. And it sucks. Bad. But people still splooge over it. Which is fine for them. But ain't my thing. I'm a more sophisticated splooger. Takes something special for me to unload my splooge.


Wrestling in companies like ROH can be the absolute pinnacle of wrestling at times. Bryan Danielson had matches with Nigel McGuinness, Takeshi Morishima, Tyler Black, and others that are as good as any matches in the history of wrestling. In particular his 6th Anniversary and Unified matches against McGuinness and Manhatten Mayhem vs Morishima would all make my top 20 for the 2000's decade list. 

One of the best 2-3 cage matches I've ever seen was the absolute bloodbath between Jimmy Jacobs and BJ Whitmer in ROH. It really needs to be seen to be believed, it's so brutal but it tells just the perfect story and it's the culmination of a months long rivalry. That's Indy wrestling at it's best.

You're right though, when "Indy" wrestling is at it's worst, with guys just working like complete idiots and damn near killing themselves for a few hundred bucks doing spots that make zero sense, it is just about the worst wrestling you'll see, period. And seeing everyone insist your just a "hater" because you don't like it makes it doubly infuriating.


WrestlingOracle said:


> Two gems from Sabu on Talk is Jericho today:
> 
> When Jericho asks who Sabu liked to work in ECW, Sabu replies after RVD: "I hate to say this, but Sandman. When Sandman was drunk he was alright. When he was sober he was terrible!"
> 
> Sabu while working in Japan gets a tryout from WWE. Sabu asks how much it pays. The tryout pays 500 bucks. Sabu goes to the tryout and gets asked if he would like to join the roster. SABU DECLINES A ROSTER SPOT AFTER A TRYOUT! Sabu is then asked why he came here. Sabu replies "I wanted the payoff" Now, on the surface that may not seem that funny, but consider the individual we are talking about, the company we are talking about in relation to where the individual worked and the style he worked, and just the sheer absurdity of what I capitalized, and that is one of the best wrestling stories I have heard in some time.


That is the most Sabu thing I've ever heard. I've watched his documentary and seen a shoot interview with him and he seems both really cool and impossibly stupid at the same time. God bless that guy hahaha, I'm just happy he's still living.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> One of the best 2-3 cage matches I've ever seen was the absolute bloodbath between Jimmy Jacobs and BJ Whitmer in ROH. It really needs to be seen to be believed, it's so brutal but it tells just the perfect story and it's the culmination of a months long rivalry. That's Indy wrestling at it's


What's the date of that cage match? I get mixed up between that and another one.


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

That match with the story going in...5 fucking stars. A match that truly needed that tooth to be knocked out and Jacobs to injure his knee and be out for 9 months afterwards...not to mention all dat blood.

Not sure of the date but it's on Supercard of Honor 2.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Eva Marie said:


> Flair/Steamboat Boogie Jam ? Its on Ricky's DVD i think


*Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat - Boogie Jam 1984*

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wwe-m...steamboat-boogie-jam-1984-a.html#post41098425​


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*IYH Judgment Day 1998:*

Christian vs Taka - ★★¾
X-Pac vs D'Lo Brown - ★★★
Mankind vs Ken Shamrock - ★★★¼
The Rock vs Mark Henry - ★★
Undertaker vs Kane - ★½

My God, what a boring main event. Shitty booking towards the end aside, the match itself was just a snoozefest. Taker keeps doing resthold and it's hard to even watch it because of Kane's damn heavy breathing. That shit is just unavoidable. :lol

Now on to Survivor Series and The Corporation! :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao At this Steiner/Nowinski debate from 2003. Chris Nowinski gets booed for not being a stupid Republican warmonger. And Scott Steiner talking about terrorists. As shit as that year was for RAW, between these kinds of segments and Hollywood Rock, I cannot stop laughing.

What the hell Choke2Death? Why didn't you watch Goldust/Venis?

EDIT: :lmao Goldberg can't drive stick shift.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Wait till you get to June when you'll get some of the most hilarious segments between Storm and Austin. :lol

That debate is a classic. Nowinski and his hired goons attacking Steiner had me rolling. And putting Steiner in a political debate is just hilarious. :lmao

EDIT: Only watched the last couple of minutes for that match. I like Goldust but Val Penis can fuck off. To me, he's what you consider Mero to be.

lol @ Austin on the titantron on Raw the night after. He's there with a rifle in his hand. And lol @ Big Boss Man randomly debuting the week before. Too much comedy.

Austin toying around with Vince is way too entertaining. :lmao


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Best part of Raw '03. (I think this was '03 if not then idk :side


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Watched the first hour of Smackdown (and then I fell asleep), but Cesaro/Ziggler was good fun. Not surprising, though.

I can't wait for 2/3 Falls this Sunday. :mark: Hopefully they get at least 20 minutes, but I won't hold my breath with an 8-match card and two HIAC matches.

I hope WWE somehow gets them to TLC still battling over the title and culminate the program in a Ladder match.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

How long did Cesaro/Zayn 2/3 falls last? Iirc, it was a sub 10 minute match wasn't it? I'm sure Ziggler and Cesaro could still pull off something great in 15 minutes or less.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Wrestlemania 25 ratings:

Colons/Morrison and Miz (*1/2)
MITB (***)
Jericho/Steamboat (**1/2)
Matt/Jeff (***1/4)
Mysterio/JBL (DUD)
Taker/HBK (****3/4)
Cena/Edge/Show (***)
Orton/Triple H (DUD)

Don't think it's as bad as some say, but very unremarkable outside the obvious.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cesaro/Zayn 2 out of 3 falls lasted somewhere around 16 minutes. At least the full version did. Many watched a sub 10 mins one.

And C2D, I applaud you for giving Mankind/Shamrock a good rating. That match is :mark:.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Anyone have the date that the Thuganomics Cena had a pretty good match with Taker? I think it was a Smackdown or Vengeance 2004, something along those lines.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Forgot the date, but check my DM channel, it's on there.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Ad Infinitum said:


> Anyone have the date that the Thuganomics Cena had a pretty good match with Taker? I think it was a Smackdown or Vengeance 2004, something along those lines.


Apparently they had a match on SD that I'm unaware of, but certainly Vengeance 03 culminating their old school/new school feud is upon my last viewing a nice solid match. I assume that is what you are thinking of.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

06/24/2004 As i say, it's in my sig if you need it.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Cena's Vengeance and SD 04 matches are **** bouts. Both SD matches in 03 are great too. Arguably Cena's best matches until 2007.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

_Randy Orton(c) Vs Batista Vs Daniel Bryan (WWE World Heavyweight Championship - Wrestlemania XXX)_

So I took a hiatus from wrestling around Wrestlemania XXX and while I watched this live, I never paid attention to it where I could really review it, so I'm going to look at this in retrospect and see how it hold up. The first thing I noticed about the match is how well Orton did as the 'general' of the match, with Bryan being less significant due to his match with HHH earlier in the night. Orton was floating around and working at a faster pace whizh always works better for him, as he maximized what he could out of Batista in their segments and really gave Bryan a focused beating where he could. Props to Orton here for rebounding from his lackluster Wrestlemania XXV performance and really being the driving force behind this match. Batista was just fine here; I found that he was a good obstacle for Bryan to overcome and the triple threat was a throwback to Wrestlemania XX, but as basic as Batista was at times he was still effective.

Bryan was great as the injured and defiant babyface, selling to perfection the entire match. The crowd seemed to be burnt during the first portion of the match but really heated up when GAME shows up and gets major heat from the audience. For a match that was designed to suspend the obvious belief that Bryan was going to win the title, they did a great job with the nearfalls and stacking the odds to a point where only Cena would have predictably overcame them, with all of Evolution and Stephanie McMahon getting involved and trying to screw Bryan over here. I felt that everybody did their jobs correctly and that everything clicked here, with a few really big nearfalls and spots that made the match feel 'big', as well as fluent work all throughout to prevent the match from being 'spotty'. I really enjoyed this actually, as we get to see Bryan fight through as much adversity as humanly possible while getting great/solid performances from the rest of the guys here and a brilliant driving heel performance by Orton. HHH in the authority position continuing to stack the odds against Bryan was great too, as this match was the best Wrestlemania main event since XXVI and will probably always be overshadowed by the HHH/Bryan clinic that was put on earlier and the ending of the streak. This is a near classic in it's own right. 

******


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I need to rewatch the triple threat title match from Mania. Only struck me as a good match, nothing great. Certainly better than WM27 and WM29's main events/title matches, although WM28 had it beat in both regards. I might rewatch it later today actually.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I think a lot of people also underlook or just completely forget about Cena's match with Angle in 2003. I believe it was Vengeance. Cena's true first great match in his early career.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> I think a lot of people also underlook or just completely forget about Cena's match with Angle in 2003. I believe it was Vengeance. Cena's true first great match in his early career.


No Mercy, and i fucking love that match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Vengeance 03 was Cena/Undertaker, Cena/Angle happened at No Mercy 03 . Both are awesome but I give the nod to the Angle match as being the better of the two.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Here is that Taker/Cena match from '04:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

sharkboy22 said:


> I think a lot of people also underlook or just completely forget about Cena's match with Angle in 2003. I believe it was Vengeance. Cena's true first great match in his early career.


That was a great match as well, but the Taker matches (outside of 04) came first, and the two I mentioned I'd put above the Angle match.

But yeah, that Angle match is overlooked.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I was re-watching videos on YouTube...remember when the HIAC actually got a reaction? WWE needs to scrap it from the calendar and make it disappear so it can get reactions like this when it comes back again:










(7:00 - end for the second video)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Apparently they might be scrapping the Elimination Chamber PPV, so who knows, HIAC might get scrapped too at some point.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Haven't watched a single piece of WWE programming since Night of Champions. Is there anything I really _NEED_ to see before Hell in a Cell tomorrow night? I've been following from a distance and it looks like literally the same 3 or 4 matches every week. 

Even though the card is technically a bunch of rematches, it's probably the best thing they could've came up with and I'm relatively excited for it. Thank god they didn't fuck up Ambrose/Rollins and we're getting what we wanted out of that. Hopefully Orton beats Cena. Don't care about the Tag Title rematch, Divas Title rematch, U.S. Title match, or the Bella shit-showdown. Cesaro/Ziggler 2 out of 3 falls could be totally awesome (as long as they don't book it like the Usos/Wyatts match from a couple months back).

Are we expecting a Reigns comeback anytime soon?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Are we expecting a Reigns comeback anytime soon?


Hopefully not.

Only thing I've really enjoyed and given me any excitement in the past month is the segment between Orton, Cena and Heyman, largely in spite of Cena. Winner of Cena vs Orton is the make or break for me. If Orton wins, they will get my 60 dollars for the six month commitment to the WWE Network. If Cena wins, they can fuck off!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Orton ain't beating Cena, as we are getting yet another Cena/Brock match. Sigh. 

Wish they could have just fucking ended it at Summerslam tbh.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

#ROOT said:


> Apparently they might be scrapping the Elimination Chamber PPV, so who knows, HIAC might get scrapped too at some point.


It absolutely has to happen and disappear for at least 2 years.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fuck current wrestling anyway. 2009 is where it's at!!! 

Finlay, Matt Hardy, John Morrison & R-Truth Vs CM Punk, Drew McIntyre, Dolph Ziggler & Luke Gallows - Smackdown 25/12/2009

I like to watch stuff while I eat, and since I just had something to eat, I wanted to watch something. Put on a random Smackdown episode that was on my PC. First match was this rather awesome talent filled 8 man tag (oh and R-Truth was in it too). Finlay rocked. McIntyre rocked. Hardy rocked. Ziggler was ok. Morrison was ok. Gallows barely got to do anything . Would have liked the match to get another 10 minutes or so but for the time it got, they gave us a pretty good heel work over (mainly controlled by McIntyre), and a super fun hot finishing stretch. Finlay took the Go To Sleep like a fucking KING. Legit looked like his face cracked down onto Punk's knee for real :mark:. Enjoyable stuff!


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

In Your House: Revenge of the ‘Taker

_WWF Tag Team Championship Match:_
*Owen Hart and the British Bulldog(c) vs. The Legion of Doom*

I really didn’t like the match at all. LOD just didn’t look very good. They were well liked by the crowd, Owen and Bulldog were playing good heels, but they just didn’t do anything interest. When Animal is locking in headlocks in the opening minutes you know there is something wrong with the face team. The pacing was constantly slow because of that. LOD won at first but the match was restarted because they apparently pinned the wrong guy. I’m not sure if that’s actually true though but regardless the match was restarted and then Bret Hart ran in to help his family retain the titles. Just a bad match.
** *


_Intercontinental Championship Match:_
*Rocky Maivia(c) vs. Savio Vega w/The Nation of Domination*

Horrible. I made it through this match without falling asleep but once it ended I had to take a tap for about a half hour. Savio worked a control segment on the Rock that at one point consisted of him doing some type of claw hold on the Rock’s shoulder. A flat comeback from the Rock followed. And it all concluded in a countout win for the Rock. I’m honestly surprised Vince stuck with the Rock for so long, he had been on the roster for I think 6 months or so at this time and he was still horrible.
*½** 


*Jesse James vs. Rockabilly w/The Honky Tonk Man*

Why? Both guys were playing equally obnoxious characters and they had a very uninteresting match. It wasn’t that bad of a match but I was just annoyed every time Jesse James did his gimmicky stuff. What I find to be the most shocking is that there are 5 matches on this card and this match was somehow one of those 5 matches.
*¾**


_WWF Championship Match:_
*The Undertaker(c) vs. Mankind w/Paul Bearer*

What a war. The chemistry between these two is just perfect. Undertaker comes out firing and it looks like this time he’s really going to kill Foley. You get some brutal bumps from Foley early on and it gets so brutal that you wonder how he’s going to get in any offense as he was just getting killed by Undertaker who wasn’t showing the slightest bit of mercy. Bearer gets involved and gives Foley his opening and he then starts his highly disturbing control segment. It starts out pretty basic but it just escalates the longer it goes on. Foley shows a total disregard for himself, the rules, and even the title. He has the Undertaker beaten at one point and he attacks a ref as he enters the ring. Normally this would be something that would piss me off but not in this case because Foley spent the entire match showing us that he was just a lunatic. Undertaker eventually makes his comeback and it’s just more insane punishment that Foley takes. Undertaker ends up with the win but there was this amazing nearfall in the match where Undertaker hits Foley with the ring stairs in the head, Foley goes head first into a table, Undertaker then gets him in the ring, and he chokeslams him. Foley kicks out. How the fuck did he kick out? Undertaker quickly ends it with the Tombstone but that kickout just shows how crazy Foley is. You just can’t go wrong with these two.
*****½ *


*Bret “The Hitman” Hart vs. “Stone Cold” Steve Austin*

A step below their previous matches but expecting them to have third masterpiece doesn’t seem fair. That being said this was still really good. Austin had been jumped before the match and a lot of time was spent talking about how his knee was injured. Bret spent a lot of time working on it and the selling from Austin was really good, good enough that if he sold like it for the Wrestlemania match I would have given that match a full 5 star rating. I also liked that we saw the next level of Bret Hart. At Survivor Series he got more and more aggressive. At Wrestlemania he started aggressive and ended heelish at the end. Here he was in full heel mode and was doing things like using a chair to attack Austin’s knee. You got the impression that hurting Austin was more important than winning, which makes sense because Bret had already beat Austin twice at this point. Austin still using heel tactics in the match was a nice touch and fit with the feud and his character. He’s not playing a “good” guy but you still want him to win. The ending was kind of weak because you really wanted to see Austin get the win against Hart and after 2 classics that he lost it seemed like this would have been the place to do it. Instead we get another DQ ending on this show. Weak ending to a great match.
****¾* ​
Well the double main event was amazing. The undercard belongs in a deep pit in wrestling hell. One thing that really bothered me about this show was that there were 5 matches on the PPV and 3 of them ended in countout or DQ. The WWF wasn’t doing very well at this point yet they go and book that kind of shit on a PPV?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

So, like, why does anybody want Lesnar/Orton? How could Orton possibly work against Lesnar? And I'm not one of those "he ain't tough enough to fight teh beast!!!" people, I'm just curious how a guy who does nothing but punch and stomp and has never had a violent brawl without weapons in his life (and those are kind of un-Lesnar-like b/c of how "WWE" they are) could have a match with Brock. I'm trying to picture what they would actually do in the match and I can't even do it. It's not like Orton's a good babyface underdog. Only time he looked convincingly underdoggy was as a heel who was getting his trap shut. Which would work here but Lesnar isn't the vengeful babyface. Don't see how they'd mesh.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I think at this point people just want something OTHER THAN Cena Vs Lesnar lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> I think at this point people just want something OTHER THAN Cena Vs Lesnar lol.


Yup. 

Talking about Foley/Taker, I had forgotten Foley did a run in and took a stunner in the main event of KOTR '98.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton vs Lesnar can work in a variety of ways. They could present them as evenly matched with it being a wrestling match that intensifies as they go on and they could present Orton as the underdog face who dishes out everything as well as taking everything Lesnar hits him with by continuing to fight. Either could work for me. They could also make it a No Holds Barred with them utilizing weapons and Orton can take a few more risks so it is a bit similar to Punk/Brock. Or even have Orton find an opening and a weak spot that he works on during the match to get the advantage.

Brock vs Cena from NOC was a bit more "traditional" and I thought it worked pretty well until the last 2-3 minutes when it was all Cena spamming finishers and the stupid DQ. No reason Orton couldn't make it work. Specially if he turns up with a performance similar to the Raw matches with Bryan last winter.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Brock said:


> Yup.
> 
> Talking about Foley/Taker, I had forgotten Foley did a run in and took a stunner in the main event of KOTR '98.


Was watching an interview with Foley not long ago and he mentioned this, he said doing that run in made Vince look at him in a different light for being prepared to do it after the beating he took in his cell match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> So, like, why does anybody want Lesnar/Orton? How could Orton possibly work against Lesnar? And I'm not one of those "he ain't tough enough to fight teh beast!!!" people, I'm just curious how a guy who does nothing but punch and stomp and has never had a violent brawl without weapons in his life (and those are kind of un-Lesnar-like b/c of how "WWE" they are) could have a match with Brock. I'm trying to picture what they would actually do in the match and I can't even do it. It's not like Orton's a good babyface underdog. Only time he looked convincingly underdoggy was as a heel who was getting his trap shut. Which would work here but Lesnar isn't the vengeful babyface. Don't see how they'd mesh.



I know it won't happen but if Lesnar takes on Orton I'd REALLY enjoy seeing them incorporate more mat based stuff. Obviously both guys can wrestle on the mat even though Orton hasn't really since 2006 and Brock not since 2003, but it's not like they both completely forgot how to do it. They could pull off a damn fine match if they started it out slow with a struggle for control on the mat and maybe trading a few submissions, then slowly build it higher and higher with maybe a bit of brawling around the ring. The climax could be Orton reversing an F5 into an RKO for a near fall, once Brock kicks out Orton could start to get up but Brock quickly locks in a triangle choke or Kimura and forces Orton to either submit or my preference to pass out.

I could easily see them working a ****+ match but it's all based on how they choose to work it. If Brock sticks strictly with his bulldozing MMA/Fist Fight style then yea its probably not gonna be the best match. But if they do a little throwback my starting out working slow on the mat and building to a crescendo then it could certainly be special.

As for WHY I would be cool with an Orton/Lesnar bout at SVS, it's pretty simple: 1. Orton is not Cena 2. Daniel Bryan is injured, WWE ruined Cesaro so he's not getting a shot, WWE won't put Ambrose or Rollins with him, and just in general the roster is so thin right now there isn't a better, viable option. 3. I like seeing Brock wrestle, so if Orton is the only realistic opponent other than Cena for SVS, please give me the fresh match up, give me Orton. (Never thought I'd utter those words in 2014).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Good match with an awesome crowd. Finally Raw is becoming more fun with Undertaker and Kane put in the background. Some fresh faces in the main event because I was getting bored of Austin's never ending feud with BOD, both of which had confusing roles for the longest time. Even now Taker and Bearer ditched Kane, I'm not sure if he's turned face since he's attacking random people with no explanation.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> So, like, why does anybody want Lesnar/Orton? How could Orton possibly work against Lesnar? And I'm not one of those "he ain't tough enough to fight teh beast!!!" people, I'm just curious how a guy who does nothing but punch and stomp and has never had a violent brawl without weapons in his life (and those are kind of un-Lesnar-like b/c of how "WWE" they are) could have a match with Brock. I'm trying to picture what they would actually do in the match and I can't even do it. It's not like Orton's a good babyface underdog. Only time he looked convincingly underdoggy was as a heel who was getting his trap shut. Which would work here but Lesnar isn't the vengeful babyface. Don't see how they'd mesh.





#ROOT said:


> I think at this point people just want something OTHER THAN Cena Vs Lesnar lol.


What he said. It would at least be something different because I know Henry, Cesaro, and Sheamus will pretty much never have a valid chance of facing the beast.

Honestly though I see them having Cena win at HIAC, beating Lesnar at Survivor Series for his record setting reign, and then having Rollins cash in. Cena vs. Rollins TLC main event. Lesnar isn't heard from again until at least Royal Rumble.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think around this time is when a lot of great Austin/McMahon segments came about, such as the hospital stuff and the hostage situation. But yeah, that Austin/BOD feud was really bad. It really does give a testament to one thing in particular though. Austin's star power at the time was so big that he was able to make that nonsense of a storyline into something that drew. Even during that feud, Austin still put on some great work on the mic.

This might have also been the time when some of the dumber gimmicks such as Marc Mero, slaveowner Jeff Jarrett, LOD, DOA, and the Oddities get phased out. Things don't get much better until late 99 in that regard, but sometimes less crap in a midcard is better than great additions. The RAW after Survivor Series was the first episode of RAW I ever watched, and believe it or not, Rock was my favorite wrestler at the time.

:lmao at how unover Goldberg was in WWE. Even in his own home town, he got booed. Even against chickenshit heel Jericho, he got booed. What a failure. What The Rock did during the buildup to that feud was pure miracle work.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I know it won't happen but if Lesnar takes on Orton I'd REALLY enjoy seeing them incorporate more mat based stuff. Obviously both guys can wrestle on the mat even though Orton hasn't really since 2006 and Brock not since 2003, but it's not like they both completely forgot how to do it. They could pull off a damn fine match if they started it out slow with a struggle for control on the mat and maybe trading a few submissions, then slowly build it higher and higher with maybe a bit of brawling around the ring. The climax could be Orton reversing an F5 into an RKO for a near fall, once Brock kicks out Orton could start to get up but Brock quickly locks in a triangle choke or Kimura and forces Orton to either submit or my preference to pass out.
> 
> I could easily see them working a ****+ match but it's all based on how they choose to work it. If Brock sticks strictly with his bulldozing MMA/Fist Fight style then yea its probably not gonna be the best match. But if they do a little throwback my starting out working slow on the mat and building to a crescendo then it could certainly be special.


Considering Lesnar has that NCAA thing and is twice Orton's size IDK how they'd work a mat game evenly. I don't know how they'd work anything evenly. Then again, I guess that's the story right there - Orton has nothing on Brock. I suppose the underdog thing is the way to go, Orton just isn't good at that. He was against Henry, though, so maybe it'd work? I'm just at the point where I've not been excited to watch Orton against literally anybody for like half a decade, and a lot of that is because he seems to almost work the same with everybody. I don't think Lesnar should have the limited amount of opponents or matches he's had, but since he does I don't see Orton as one of them. Orton not being Cena is reason enough, I guess. Kind of crazy though how Cena and Lesnar had one of the best WWE matches ever two years ago and WWE screwed it up to the point where nobody wants to see that match again.

-----

funnyfaces how many years have you done where you made a list of ***+ matches in a spoiler tag (you know what I mean)? Do you have them all handy right now?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> funnyfaces how many years have you done where you made a list of ***+ matches in a spoiler tag (you know what I mean)? Do you have them all handy right now?


I have ones for 1996-2002, 2005, 2006, and a modified version for 2013 for WWE. I also have a working list for 2003 and 2008. I also have one in the making for ROH in 2002, WCW in 1996, and now Mid South in 1985. I have them handy, but I will not give them to you because I'm afraid you will judge me for my liberal use of shift-8s :side:


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

Kane and Taker were a drag in 98 I agree. Both aren't very charismatic (Obviously), and both in the main event for the majority of the year just wasn't exciting. You will see that Kane now thrives in the midcard, a place where he should ALWAYS be. I also think Taker takes like a 2 month break after that boring Buried Alive match with Austin. Something he desperately needed during that time.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I have ones for 1996-2002, 2005, 2006, and a modified version for 2013 for WWE. I also have a working list for 2003 and 2008. I also have one in the making for ROH in 2002, WCW in 1996, and now Mid South in 1985. I have them handy, but I will not give them to you because I'm afraid you will judge me for my liberal use of shift-8s :side:


I SAID GIMME.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Considering Lesnar has that NCAA thing and is twice Orton's size IDK how they'd work a mat game evenly. I don't know how they'd work anything evenly. Then again, I guess that's the story right there - Orton has nothing on Brock. I suppose the underdog thing is the way to go, Orton just isn't good at that. He was against Henry, though, so maybe it'd work? I'm just at the point where I've not been excited to watch Orton against literally anybody for like half a decade, and a lot of that is because he seems to almost work the same with everybody. I don't think Lesnar should have the limited amount of opponents or matches he's had, but since he does I don't see Orton as one of them. Orton not being Cena is reason enough, I guess. Kind of crazy though how Cena and Lesnar had one of the best WWE matches ever two years ago and WWE screwed it up to the point where nobody wants to see that match again.
> 
> -----
> 
> funnyfaces how many years have you done where you made a list of ***+ matches in a spoiler tag (you know what I mean)? Do you have them all handy right now?



I think Orton is a bit more physically imposing than you're giving him credit for. Lesnar outweighs him by 30 lbs or so but Orton is definitely taller, and Orton lettered all 4 years in high school in wrestling, he's got some skills. Lesnar can outmuscle him but Orton could use his length to gain an advantage with leverage. Like I said it's all in whether or not they choose to work an actual wrestling match instead of a "Big Fight". I'd look forward to seeing it, at the very least just to see what a match between the 2 would look like.

The only reason people are "sick" of Cena/Lesnar is because they know now they aren't gonna get anything like Extreme Rules 2012. Summerslam was riveting just because no one ever thought Cena could get squashed like that in a main event. Night of Champions they kinda dropped the ball, that was a chance for them to really do something different/special and instead it was just a more back and forth version of Summerslam. Cena did nothing interesting in his comebacks. They never left the ring. It was just straight back and forth fisticuffs for 10 minutes before a Seth Rollins run in ruined the match. It was a really good match, but nothing special or unique, certainly nothing I'll ever look forward to watching again. Since we know WWE isn't gonna pin yet another clean loss on Cena, and we don't want Cena beating Brock, there is no reason to see that match up anymore. Storyline wise I guess Cena does "deserve" a rematch but fuck all that, I want to see Lesnar win 2 more matches then drop the belt clean to Bryan or Ambrose at WM 31. That's how it should go IMO, Cena should not break Flairs record.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Probably the greatest gift that Allah gave to wrestling is the protection of Flair's world title record. The WWE acknowledges Flair as a 16 time champion, although Flair actually won world titles more times than that. I think he once said that he's actually a 21 time world champ. But since the WWE only acknowledges him as a 16 time champ, Cena will probably hit that 16-18 time benchmark and then never get the title again, thus protecting Flair's record.

God bless Christian for somehow getting a decent match out of Goldberg. Those two had a cage match where Christian kills Goldberg with chairshots and neckbreakers. Then Goldberg hulks up and Christian does a sick bladejob and bumps for Goldberg and makes Goldberg's offense look great. Solid stuff. But Goldy's run is still laughable because Jericho and him are getting split reactions. Jericho on that same episode pulled off a miracle work with Kevin Nash. I love Canadians. Except Teddy Hart.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Damn, I just think Orton and Lesnar would work really well together. I don't see them going the mat wrestling route though. I see it more as a fight with Orton taking Lesnar's best shots, only to give it right back to him. Lesnar would control a good portion of the match, but not to the point of overshadowing Randy. Randy has to work the match with the underdog mentality, especially if it takes place in his hometown. I think Orton has the perfect move set to combat Lesnar and pace a well worked match. The rope assisted DDT, snap powerslam, inverted backbreaker. All of these moves can be used to slow Lesnar down, but not stop him. Would like to see Brock branch out a little bit with his offense as well, instead of just spamming German suplexes. Like to see him pull out that awesome backbreaker where he would do 2 or 3 in succession. Even that double lift powerbomb would be insane. They would fight outside a bit too, with Orton using his surroundings to his advantage. The steps or a ring post shot. Back in the ring, an F5 counter into the RKO, Brock kicks out. Orton goes nuts, sets up the punt. BAM! F5! Lesnar retains.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

To get ready for Hell In The Cell, I re-watched Lesnar Vs. Undertaker and John Cena Vs. Randy Orton.

*No Mercy 2002*

12 years later, the match is still the epitome of The Devil's Playground. No mercy and no escape. Just The Beast and The American Badass beating the holy crap of each other until one fell. The match was so barbaric even Heyman did a bladejob! The "no blood" policy today makes you appreciate this match more. Also, Undertaker's sickening cut was hard to watch. The blood flow seemed to go on forever before the match ended. Loved Lesnar countering Undertaker's finisher with his! It was the perfect touch to all the brutality.











*"No Mercy" 2009*

Still impressed with this match. The crowd was into it as the two rivals kept the action going for almost 21 minutes straight. There were almost little to no breaks during the match. It felt like a Last Man Standing one as both men did everything they could to take the other man down for a 10 count. Using the side of the Cell, steel steps, a chair, it was intense for a PG setting. Orton was just vicious in this.

My favorite parts were The former Legend Killer forgetting there was no rope break as he was caught in the STFU and then using the ropes to trap Supes as he choked him out. John Cena losing his first Hell In The Cell match straight up was a complete shocker. Randy Orton pulled the upset and made history to be the first man to win the WWE title inside the demonic structure. Had either man been busted wide open, this would've been higher on my favorite HITC matches list.










I don't expect much from the rematch tonight and I don't blame anybody that's not interested. It will be hard for them to top this. Too bad they have to go at it again. At the time, this really did feel like The End.


- Vic


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Uploaded the two Cena/Taker matches from SD '03:

*The Undertaker vs John Cena (Smackdown 04.10.2003)*


*The Undertaker vs John Cena (Smackdown 08.07.2003)*


------------------

Thanks to funnyfaces for the rec of Kenta/Richards from Supercard Of Honor IV. Definate MOTYC, and i fucking loved it.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Orton/Lesnar could be great. Then again it could suck. But I'd rather see it for the first time ever than Cena/Lesnar for the 4th time when we already know what we're getting from those two. At least the former is fresh and an RKO on Brock followed by some sort of finisher exchange could be pretty :banderas. Orton/Brock and Authority vs. Faces in some sort of team match at Survivor Series might actually make this waste of space PPV worth something. If Brock really is out until Jan though and is only set to face Cena again then :lol. There isn't much else to say really.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I love seeing Brock, but if we get Brock/Cena, then he drops the belt to Reigns and that's it, then that would be shit and frankly ill just fpalm.

It would make it fucking even worse if then Brock doesn't sign a new deal too.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Given how things are gonna go, I can only hope that Reigns' return fails to get over, that Ambrose gets Bryan pops by Rumble time (which, while not QUITE, is seemingly a potential happening given how loud Ambrose's pops are currently), and that Brock/Ambrose headlines WM w/Ambrose dethroning Brock. I would say Brock/Bryan for WM but Bryan is only expected to return by WM time and his first match in being against Brock is way too big of a risk. Ambrose is their best bet atm. Just not Reigns, please.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Sadly, i'm not even putting Bryan into any equation at this stage.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Given how things are going, I can see three options here, regarding Bryan:

1) Bryan will indeed recover sooner or later, but will be much more toned down than pre-surgery;
2) Bryan will never come back at all ();
3) The WWE is feeding dem DIRTSHEETZ~ bullshit and Bryan actually is ready and will come back by RR time (though it is unlikely but a man can dream).


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I sincerely hope WWE are working the sheets and Bryan will surprise return at the Rumble and win it. Fuck Reigns. Nobody wants that moment for him, at least not now. 32 is perfect for his rise to the top because nobody in their right mind wants to see that shit in only 3 months time, not when other options are much more appealing. I really want this as the Mania card next year:

Brock(c) vs. Bryan (perhaps a potential Rollins in cash in here too?)
Trips vs. Ambrose LMS or Street Fight LET THERE BE BLOOD
Rollins vs. Baby Orton
Cena vs. Sting
Taker vs. Wyatt
LOLWHOCARESABOUTREIGNS 

Alas we'll end up with Brock/Reigns, no Bryan, no Taker, HHH in a shit match and Cena/Rusev. Wonderful :side:.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hey, if they don't pull a LOLCenaHadToBeatTheUpAndCommer like they did w/Bray, I'll be perfectly down for Cena/Rusev. As a matter of fact, I'll be down to see Rusev face anyone, quite frankly. Outside of Mark Henry (which sucks because Henry on full potential vs Rusev would fucking rule), it seems that he has good chemistry w/everyone. Can't wait for the inevitable clashes w/Ziggler, Sheamus or Cesaro in the future.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I like Rusev but I'm incapable of caring about a feud with Cena because I can already see exactly how it will go and exactly how it will end right now. I don't need Wrestlemania level hype around this match when I know Cena will win, will avenge America and get even more redemption that he doesn't need. Who cares? Book it at a smaller PPV since we all know how it will play out. Throw Cena in a match with Sting and at least give us some unpredictability around the guy at Mania for a change.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Ambrose vs Brock for the WWE Title
Reigns vs Cesaro for the IC Title
Bryan vs Rollins
Cena vs Rusev

Is a fair start to WM 31 IMO. Any card we make is gonna seem lackluster without a "Streak" match, and I think we can be fairly certain we aren't seeing the Deadman this year, as sad as that is to say.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

WM without Taker is like chocolate without cocoa. It just doesn't feel right, quite frankly. But if it has to be done, it has to be done. Just as long as they don't start a new Streak w/Reigns...


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Wrestlemania 31

Brock-Bryan WWEWHC
Ambrose-HHH
Cena-Rusev
Orton-Rollins

Something big for Cesaro and Reigns stuck in the Andre battle royal as well.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I still don't mind seeing Reigns beat Lesnar :side:. I actually think the finish of this match will be Rock interfering on Reigns' behalf and then Reigns picks up the victory, thus protecting Brock and setting up the main event of WM 32.

Is Triple H vs. Kevin Nash at Bad Blood any good? I saw it once when it aired and I didn't like it. Their other big match that year at Judgment Day was stinky. And whenever they brawled against each other, it looked like women fighting.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Reigns is beating Brock unfortunately.  Fuck i hate how inept WWE really are.

Anyway, willing to take a match request if i have it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, Terra Ryzing vs. Torn Quad HIAC is good. As is WOOOOO vs. Back Break Kid and Bald Roman Reigns (8*D) vs. ARM BAR from the same PPV.

Bad Blood 2003, as a whole, sucks tho.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Is the Nash HIAC the one where Foley was the ref? If so then it's actually rather enjoyable as a nonsense slugfest. There's bumps, there's blood, there's Foley and there's Hunter's God awful purple wrestling tights while Nash stalks the ring in slow motion while HHH bumps like a loon iirc. A winning combo .


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Brock said:


> Reigns is beating Brock unfortunately.  Fuck i hate how inept WWE really are.
> 
> Anyway, willing to take a match request if i have it.


What year books do you have, mate?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rah said:


> What year books do you have, mate?


90,92,93,94,96,97.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

If Bryan isn't ready for WM or in shape for a match with Brock, it would be the ultimate dream to see Orton take down Brock at WM. Reigns needs to fuck off for at least another year and while I like Ambrose, him beating Brock sounds kinda outlandish to me. I'm all for him being World Champion by the end of next year, it just doesn't have that big match feel on paper.

Unfortunately, I don't see Orton winning tonight.  His tweets where he takes shots at Cena suggests he's unhappy and losing this match to make way for another worthless Brock/Cena rematch. Speaking of Cena/Orton inside HIAC, I rewatched the one from 2009 yesterday. It's not as boring as I recall but also the structure is unneeded. Only gets used a bit in the beginning then they have a regular match in the ring with little use of foreign objects. I hate the tap out when ref is down part, though. Nothing came from it and it was just a shitty excuse to have Cena lose not clean. Three stars probably.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I might rewatch Trips/Foley HIAC to see if it's still as good as i always think it is.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I still don't mind seeing Reigns beat Lesnar :side:. I actually think the finish of this match will be Rock interfering on Reigns' behalf and then Reigns picks up the victory, thus protecting Brock and setting up the main event of WM 32.
> 
> Is Triple H vs. Kevin Nash at Bad Blood any good? I saw it once when it aired and I didn't like it. Their other big match that year at Judgment Day was stinky. And whenever they brawled against each other, it looked like women fighting.


RE: Your request, i have Buddy Rose & Doug Somers vs. Midnight Rockers (8/30/86). Ill upload that as im sure its the same one (as you dated it as 9/2/86).


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

EDIT: running time of 9/2/86 is 19:34. Should be the same match.



Brock said:


> 90,92,93,94,96,97.


Would two matches be too much to ask? 

El Hijo del Santo, Octagon & Rey Misterio Jr. vs Psicosis, Blue Panther & Fuerza Guerrera (AAA Sin Limite 07/15/94)
Eddy Guerrero, Love Machine & Fuerza Guerrera vs El Hijo del Santo, Octagon & Blue Panther (AAA 08/28/93)


If it is, I'd love the first one. It's one I've been looking at for a while in completing my Blue Panther project. It's also what I'd imagine to be the best primer for lucha, considering trios stick to certain pairs, as it has three of its best styles done by some of its best workers:

Matwork: Santo/Panther
High-flying: Rey/Psicosis
Gimmicky goodness: Fuerza


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rah said:


> Would two matches be too much to ask?
> 
> El Hijo del Santo, Octagon & Rey Misterio Jr. vs Psicosis, Blue Panther & Fuerza Guerrera (AAA Sin Limite 07/15/94)
> Eddy Guerrero, Love Machine & Fuerza Guerrera vs El Hijo del Santo, Octagon & Blue Panther (AAA 08/28/93)
> ...


NP. I'll sort them out tomorrow.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> If Bryan isn't ready for WM or in shape for a match with Brock, it would be the ultimate dream to see Orton take down Brock at WM. Reigns needs to fuck off for at least another year and while I like Ambrose, him beating Brock sounds kinda outlandish to me. I'm all for him being World Champion by the end of next year, it just doesn't have that big match feel on paper.
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't see Orton winning tonight.  His tweets where he takes shots at Cena suggests he's unhappy and losing this match to make way for another worthless Brock/Cena rematch. Speaking of Cena/Orton inside HIAC, I rewatched the one from 2009 yesterday. It's not as boring as I recall but also the structure is unneeded. Only gets used a bit in the beginning then they have a regular match in the ring with little use of foreign objects. I hate the tap out when ref is down part, though. Nothing came from it and it was just a shitty excuse to have Cena lose not clean. Three stars probably.



Ambrose/Brock doesn't sound big enough NOW, but it might by then, it's all in how WWE chooses to present him. If Ambrose becomes the focal point of the show for the next 4 months and is booked to be the most bad ass baby face on the roster, people will accept him as a worthy challenger to Brock. Plus, can you imagine a classic Heyman vs Ambrose promo battle? Those two on the mic can talk the doubters into becoming believers.

Personally, if Bryan is healthy by the Rumble of course I want Bryan to win and give us a potential GOAT match vs Brock at WM 31. Bryan is a big enough name, he deserves it, he's the best baby face on the roster, and last time I checked at WrestleMania the best good guy should face the best bad guy.

If Bryan is NOT ready by Rumble time, then WWE simply has to pull the trigger on Ambrose. There isn't another choice. He's the best option, he's the most deserving of being given a shot, and he's talented enough to make himself appear like he belongs in the main event at WrestleMania. Reigns is not going to be ready, putting Reigns in an IC title match with Cesaro is the PERFECT spot for him, it shows that WWE still has faith in him without shoving him down our throats and killing his baby face potential. He also could get carried to one hell of a match by Cesaro, which is always a plus.

Zeppers-if you'll take a request how about Bryan Danielson vs Tyler Black New Horizons 7/26/08 if you have it? Been dying to rewatch it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I have no clue as to why I don't have that New Horizon match at five stars. Eh, stupid star ratings. But that match is perfect.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

That Black/Danielson match is fucking damn perfect. First time I watched it earlier this year I was frankly amazed, it's one of my main 'go to' matches now.

God I love Bryan.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Wanted for a long time to rewatch Halloween Havoc 1997, but never managed to do it. Well, i finnaly did it today and I gotta admit that I had fun with it. Some quick ratings:

Nagata/Ultimo Dragon- ***
Jericho/Gedo- **1/2
Eddie/Mysterio- ****3/4
Wright/McMichael- *1/2
Disco Inferno/Jacqueline- DUD
Flair/Hennig- ***1/2
Luger/Hall- DUD
Savage/DDP- ****1/2
Hogan/Piper- *


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Srdjan99 said:


> Wanted for a long time to rewatch Halloween Havoc 1997, but never managed to do it. Well, i finnaly did it today and I gotta admit that I had fun with it. Some quick ratings:
> 
> Nagata/Ultimo Dragon- ***
> Jericho/Gedo- **1/2
> ...


Similar ratings to mine TBH when i watched it last month:

*WCW Halloween Havoc 1997*

*Yugi Nagata vs. Ultimo Dragon* ***
*Gedo vs. Chris Jericho* **
*WCW Cruiserweight Championship: Rey Mysterio vs. Eddie Guerrero (c)* *****
*Mongo McMichael vs. Alex Wright* * The star is for Goldberg turning up.
*Disco Inferno vs. Jacqueline* DUD
*WCW United States Championship: Ric Flair vs. Curt Hennig (c).* ***
*Scott Hall vs. Lex Luger* *
*Las Vegas Sudden Death Match: Macho Man Randy Savage vs. Diamond Dallas Page* ****
*Steel Cage Grudge Match: Hollywood Hogan vs. Rowdy Roddy Piper* *



















Just two highlights. :mark:

Savage/DDP was great..........apart from the finish. Hated it TBH with another 'Fake Sting' setup. Would have preferred Page to win the feud, but it did help elevate DDP further, so.

Inferno/Jacqueline LOL. It was even funnier, on the previous Nitro they announced that the Las Vegas commission won't allow an intergender match to be for the title. They are perfectly fine with having a man vs woman match....but it can't be for the belt.

I would also say, it was lucky Jericho didn't break his neck in that match with Gedo. He landed a bit like Lesnar did at WM19, but with Gedo also falling on top of him. Looked nasty. He was fine the next night on Nitro.

Need to get back to my WCW project at some point.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The go-home Raw to Survivor Series 98 was awesome. First ever hardcore title match between Shamrock and Mankind is fun and solid main event between Rock and Mizark. Epic ending with Shane running in for the 3 count. Awesome swerve job here by the bookers. They stack the odds against Rock and build him and Shane as sympathetic babyfaces only for them to align with the Corporation by the end of SVS.

Looking forward to Mankind/Rock. Heard the rest of the show is full of crappy short matches except the final.

Gonna finish SVS before HIAC is on tonight. Hopefully I'll finish this day happy as can be with Orton defeating Cena.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Buddy Rose & Doug Somers vs Midnight Rockers (AWA TV) (08.30.1986)*

x28oa76

* By request


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Hey Brock, umm, what about Flair/Kerry from Hawaii :lol


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Alright guys, question for all of you.

Who was a better storyteller in the ring, Cm Punk or Aj Styles? I want your input on it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Normally I'd need a definition of "storyteller", but probably Punk's best feature is his ability to inject a feud and his emotions of a feud into a match. Not that I've watched that much Styles post-2005.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Hey Brock, umm, what about Flair/Kerry from Hawaii :lol


I'll try next week. Just need to double check it's the right one.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

TheGMofGods said:


> Who was a better storyteller in the ring, Cm Punk or Aj Styles? I want your input on it.


Everyone here already knows my answer. But to give a short defense for it, Punk and Styles once had a match where Punk destroyed Styles' knee while in control. That fucker AJ no-sold the crap out of it like he was RVD.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finished Survivor Series. I guess I shouldn't have really expected any different and while it was fun going through the tournament, the match quality wasn't all that. Too many were short and some of them such as Boss Man vs Austin ended just when it was starting to get good. I cba rating them but I'll say the main event was quality and makes up for the rest. Also liked Shamrock vs Rock to a lesser extent. ★★★¾ for the Rock vs Mankind.

This has Russo written all over it with non-stop swerves but to his credit, this one was actually must see. From getting fans tuning in for the tournament to keeping them interested for the night after to explain the sudden turn, just good booking all around. Rock's heel turn was not the best timed, though. He's starting to really get fan support and he goes back heel. Also don't understand why Austin had to stand tall to close the show.

Now it's on to HIAC. Hope WWE doesn't disappoint me here.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Everyone here already knows my answer. But to give a short defense for it, Punk and Styles once had a match where Punk destroyed Styles' knee while in control. That fucker AJ no-sold the crap out of it like he was RVD.


Give me more. I'm curious.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

TheGMofGods said:


> Alright guys, question for all of you.
> 
> Who was a better storyteller in the ring, Cm Punk or Aj Styles? I want your input on it.


Easily Punk, not to say that AJ is horrible, but compared to Punk he looks ametuer. Then again, I love Punk, so don't take my word for it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

And this company's streak of great PPV openers continue. Now let us all hope for the best when the rest arrive.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

***1/4 for Ziggler-Cesaro.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

That's the MOTN right there. Great stuff, but wow, who did Cesaro piss off? Clean sweep. 

Great arm work and psychology from their recent matches with the reversals and whatnot. Great, great stuff.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Dolph Ziggler spending his days off watching indy wrestling I see.

About ***3/4 btw.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

We'll, Cesaro/Ziggler was quite the bitching match but fuck me WWE would it just kill you to give these two horses 15-20 minutes to really tell a story? What a missed opportunity, they were on a fucking ROLL just ripping it up and then it's over, 2 straight falls. Ugh fpalm

***3/4 for Cesaro/Ziggler, easily could have been a ****1/4+ match with how it was shaping up, if only they had more time. Dumb move by a company trying to make new stars.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I assume that the two falls were to further highlight the resiliance quality they really try to instill in Ziggler's character. I didn't see the beginning of the match, but from the middle to that end stretch, what I saw was aesthetically really impressive, and while it was still part of the Zigs formula, Ziggler actually was STORYTELLING. Damn that half superplex/half avalance brainbuster with that set up was something. From what I saw, I will also go 3 and a quarter. Nice.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> We'll, Cesaro/Ziggler was quite the bitching match but fuck me WWE would it just kill you to give these two horses 15-20 minutes to really tell a story? What a missed opportunity, they were on a fucking ROLL just ripping it up and then it's over, 2 straight falls. Ugh fpalm
> 
> ***3/4 for Cesaro/Ziggler, easily could have been a ****1/4+ match with how it was shaping up, if only they had more time. Dumb move by a company trying to make new stars.


I actually think it was great and, if a bit longer, in MOTY territory hovering at ****1/2 - ****3/4.

I have it at ****1/4.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I could have seen Ziggler/Cesaro going into the **** range had it gone to 3 falls. Man, imagine if that was the finishing stretch for the third fall. Cesaro should have gotten a fall with the superplex.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Ziggler vs Cesaro was great. Not quite the MOTYC I expected it to be but it still delivered. Nice armwork in the 2nd fall and I liked how well it played into the finish.

Kinda annoyed how Cesaro lost clean on Smackdown only to lose clean again without winning at least a fall but whatever. Still a solid match.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

I give Ziggler Cesaro *** 3/4 to **** as it stands, will rewatch later. Match was awesome, though had they given it a bit more time, had it go the full three falls, shit would have been absolutely amazing. Still a really fun match, awesome stuff from both guys.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Cesaro could be a top heel for WWE if they would just let him. There is a total dearth of fresh new bad guys right now, it's Rollins and that's it. Cesaro needs to be booked like the legit ass kicker he is. If he's gonna lose a 2/3 falls match make one of the falls he loses a DQ for giving Ziggler a chair shot or something. Have him dominate the majority of the match then have Ziggler pull that roll up for the win. Simple. Keeps Cesaro strong, but no, that's too hard for WWE to do these days.

I knew they'd put Rollins/Ambrose in the main event but that hater Pyro just wouldn't listen, he's always gotta be negative. No way WWE would let the fans shit all over Cena/Orton again, only way to keep them from doing it is by putting them in the main event.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm sitting here watching this ppv and I'm like, where the fuck is the Wyatt Family? Can someone fill me in on those three please.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Cesaro could be a top heel for WWE if they would just let him. There is a total dearth of fresh new bad guys right now, it's Rollins and that's it. Cesaro needs to be booked like the legit ass kicker he is. If he's gonna lose a 2/3 falls match make one of the falls he loses a DQ for giving Ziggler a chair shot or something. Have him dominate the majority of the match then have Ziggler pull that roll up for the win. Simple. Keeps Cesaro strong, but no, that's too hard for WWE to do these days.


That makes Ziggler look too weak. Cesaro can have control of the match on the most part, but it's far more interesting if it's back and forth. Maybe Cesaro should have been a bit more dominant here, but not by all too much. 

Ambrose/Rollins Main Eventing is super.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I'm sitting here watching this ppv and I'm like, where the fuck is the Wyatt Family? Can someone fill me in on those three please.


Off TV after WWE destroyed them.

More and more, HIAC matches are just no DQ with a cell around the ring. Hopefully Ambrose/Rollins changes that and utilizes the cell more.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

My god, please end this fucking Orton/Cena match already...


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

RatedR10 said:


> Off TV after WWE destroyed them.


Wow... and they wonder why people aren't watching.

Echo a lot of the thoughts on Cesaro/Ziggler. Thought it was pretty awesome but totally baffled as to why this company hates Cesaro. *** 1/2 for me.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

This match sucks.

I wish they put the tag titles on the pre-show and shortened this match so the IC Title could have gone 17-22 minutes rather than the 12 it did.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Well at least now they're trying to use the cell as a weapon, but it almost feels like they're doing it because they feel obligated to instead of using the cell as a tool for a greater story. But if this is a necessary evil for Rollins and Ambrose to main event, I'll take it. We already had a great match, a good match, and a not terrible Bellas match, so we have been spoiled so far.

EDIT: OMFG THE RKO!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Superkick said:


> That makes Ziggler look too weak. Cesaro can have control of the match on the most part, but it's far more interesting if it's back and forth. Maybe Cesaro should have been a bit more dominant here, but not by all too much.
> 
> Ambrose/Rollins Main Eventing is super.



No it doesn't, Ziggler is portrayed as the resilient under dog who managed to pull out a win even though Cesaro used unfair tactics. Being a resilent under dog baby face is a good place to be, just ask Shawn Michaels and Daniel Bryan. Ziggler can get his shine to start the match, Cesaro cheats using the chair and gets his heat, Ziggler perseveres and pulls out the win in the end. Both guys come out looking good instead of just Ziggler. There wasn't enough heat on Cesaro in this feud to warrant a straight, clean as a whistle, 2 fall victory. It doesn't appear like he's getting his comeuppance for anything, he just got beat because Ziggler was better. Where is the intrigue in that? Cesaro should be cheating to get heat, he's just too like able other wise.

I'm starting to sound like a broken record with this heels needing to cheat to get heat, but damn does it ever annoy the shit out of me how WWE won't book heels to really get heat anymore. Biggest thing missing in wrestling today.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> No it doesn't, Ziggler is portrayed as the resilient under dog who managed to pull out a win even though Cesaro used unfair tactics. Being a resilent under dog baby face is a good place to be, just ask Shawn Michaels and Daniel Bryan. Ziggler can get his shine to start the match, Cesaro cheats using the chair and gets his heat, Ziggler perseveres and pulls out the win in the end. Both guys come out looking good instead of just Ziggler.


It's not like Daniel Bryan just got beat up during his matches. He's gotten a significant amount of offense in himself. I don't think Dolph/Cesaro should be head and toe, but the match just isn't as exciting if it's Cesaro beating the fuck out of Dolph the entire match and Dolph winning with two moves, as has been done a couple times on SD/Raw. Cesaro should be fairly dominant, but it puts both over if they both come off as somewhat strong.

I'm not in disagreement that it should have went to three falls and not just Ziggler beating him straight up. Cesaro no doubt could have been booked better here.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bottom five HIAC match. They should be thankful that Wrestlemania XV exists. :lmao at Paul Heyman creeping in the crowd.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Any other match, that's average, I guess. HIAC? Terrible.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

That match was the definition of dull, thought it started well enough at a high pace but it quickly faded out and both seemed to be going through the motions. **


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Yup, a DUD as expected. I'm a fan of both guys but never let them any where near each other ever again. Terrible.

Thankfully we still have Rollins vs Ambrose inside the Cell. Show vs Rusev should be fun too.

Edit- I will say that Orton was trying his hardest to make it work. Cena was awful in this.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

:lmao

I refreshed the page and LOLCENAWINS


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Horrid. Just simply horrid and this jackhammering (and yes forceful jackhammering) is such an ailment of this product. Truly is laughable and became pathetic awhile ago. Disgusting too to no sell the Devil's Playground. This guy's character really is becoming a cancer to the quality of the product. So predictable and the "safe option".


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

OMFG that match was horrible, and the outcome makes me want to turn this shit off right now. Lucky they have the main event that they do.

RKO OUTTA NOWHERE was the only real highlight. Total spamming of finishers.


----------



## Innova (Apr 7, 2014)

They sacked Justin Roberts and replaced him with the current ring announcer? She sounds terrible.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I can't even post honest thoughts on Orton/Cena now, I zoned out for the majority of it. From what I saw Cena was positively awful, Orton looked to be trying though.

Looks like we are getting Lesnar/Cena 4, yippee.

Superkick-I didn't say Cesaro should just beat the fuck out of Ziggler the entire match. I said Ziggler should get his shine for the first 5 minutes or so beating up Cesaro, only to have Cesaro get fed up with Ziggler out matching him and for Cesaro to hit Ziggler with a chair, costing himself the 1st fall. Then Cesaro gets his heat on Ziggler and wins a fall of his own. The final fall continues with a Cesaro work over but Ziggler keeps fighting back from underneath and finally does that roll up reverse thing and picks up the win. Simple and effective way to keep both guys looking good.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

let me clarify though my small rant is more directed at booking and Vince's Verne esque stubborn ways in believing his philosophy than an attack on Cena, but Cena certainly IS a big part of the problem


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

My stream cut off literally as Cena's music played. :lmao I guess it's a sign of what I need to do as well.

I am honestly so over this shit. I'm not even gonna watch the rest of the event. Sorry Seth and Dean, but I'm DONE. Not gonna get the Network like I planned to get. I think I might just erase wrestling out of my life and move on. Delete all the videos I have in my PC, clear my internet history from anything wrestling related and just take a leave for something more exciting in life. It's just not worth it. They get you excited and make you think something interesting is happening, then it's back to square one. I promised I would try to not let the current product affect my enjoyment of the past but I just can't do it anymore. 

/rant over


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Superkick-I didn't say Cesaro should just beat the fuck out of Ziggler the entire match. I said Ziggler should get his shine for the first 5 minutes or so beating up Cesaro, only to have Cesaro get fed up with Ziggler out matching him and for Cesaro to hit Ziggler with a chair, costing himself the 1st fall. Then Cesaro gets his heat on Ziggler and wins a fall of his own. The final fall continues with a Cesaro work over but Ziggler keeps fighting back from underneath and finally does that roll up reverse thing and picks up the win. Simple and effective way to keep both guys looking good.


That's fair booking though I don't like the match ending in a roll up. Rather a Zig Zag + Instant pin or something to that effect.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Sheamus/Miz has been done enough. This is another dull match.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Loved Sheamus-Miz because of Mizdow. Spent the entire match watching him, the man is gold.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> My stream cut off literally as Cena's music played. :lmao I guess it's a sign of what I need to do as well.
> 
> I am honestly so over this shit. I'm not even gonna watch the rest of the event. Sorry Seth and Dean, but I'm DONE. Not gonna get the Network like I planned to get. I think I might just erase wrestling out of my life and move on. Delete all the videos I have in my PC, clear my internet history from anything wrestling related and just take a leave for something more exciting in life. It's just not worth it. They get you excited and make you think something interesting is happening, then it's back to square one. I promised I would try to not let the current product affect my enjoyment of the past but I just can't do it anymore.
> 
> /rant over



:loses


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Not surprising at all, but Rusev is MONEY! Another good match.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Rusev-Big Show was good, ***.

I know a lot of people are shitting on the prospect of a Cena-Rusev feud but I think it could be really good.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Rusev vs Big Show = so much fun. All of there matches have been.

Rusev is the man. Didn't care for him at first but now I'm easily a fan of his.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao For four straight PPVs, I've taken a dump whenever the divas match was going on.


----------



## Innova (Apr 7, 2014)

Cole: "Have you seen any HIAC match start like this?"

JBL: "No, I haven't?" 

Are you serious? Undertaker vs Mankind??


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Jesus Christ :mark:


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I would never ever even be capable of taking that bump, but from a wrestling context, we have seen that bump before from HBK at Bad Blood and a much nastier looking bump from freaking Vince in a similar spot. Besides, that looked telegraphed as hell on Dean's end. Meh.


----------



## Innova (Apr 7, 2014)

Holy crap that chant was creepy.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

GOD FUCKING DAMMIT. We were getting our modern era Dibiase/Duggan, but then they HAD to do this.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

That shit just ruined THE perfect match, fucking company.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

Dean vs Seth was more in line with Vince vs Austin at St Valentine's Day Massacre than the classic HIAC matches that it aspired to be. It even had an interference to end it just like SVDM. Also Vince's spot > Dean/Seth.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Fuck this company. Like seriously, fuck this shit. Could you have ruined that in any worse fashion?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Honestly, I don't know why people are bitching. The match was probably ***1/2 at best even if it had a proper finish and everything. I'm sorry but the big bump at the start, while cool, took away a lot from this match. Plus, the ending was pretty freaking cool. A lot of people call Taker/HBK a 5 star match even though Kane came in at the end, pretty much in similar fashion as Wyatt.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Five months of investment and hate flushed down the toilet. So fucking stupid. That's why people are bitching. Instead of just giving Ambrose the win in Hell in a Cell to blow off the five month long feud, they pull this bullshit.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

I'd like to think they would revisit Rollins-Ambrose at Wrestlemania with Rollins cashing in on Cena who's just beaten Brock and Ambrose winning the Rumble since it would be absolutely ridiculous for Ambrose not to get the payoff this feuds needs but I wont be holding my breath.

Absolutely loved the match though and even though I hate the finish it was done well.

Will rewatch and rate it tomorrow.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Let's not engage in hyperbole people, that was shaping to be solid and was garnering a good reaction, but the actual content of that match in my opinion was not exactly otherworldly or even par to our expectations. Sure, there is debate as to whether or not that was the time and place for that to happen, but we weren't exactly being robbed of a five star match there given how that was shaping out. Solid? Yeah it was getting there and the animosity was there, but cmon now.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

I'm pissed simply because of the great potential this match had. It was the ending of two guys going at each others throats for months now, and they got the main event spot over fucking Orton/Cena. They should have just went these two go to war on each other. 

Instead, they turned it into an overbooked mess. They still managed a good match out of it because it's Ambrose and Rollins, but a good match is a major disappointment. I guess I should be mad at myself for having really high expectations of it. 

*** at best. What a disappointing PPV this turned out to be. One of the worst of the year in my opinion, and this is coming from a guy who isn't as critical about WWE's PPV's compared to everyone else (seriously, I still think Battleground was a good PPV).

Edit: Question, why didn't they do the big spot at the beginning at the end? With what was happening and being built up to, I feel like a spot like that would have made a lot more sense to do at the end. Rollins sees the Cinderblocks, gets the fuck out of there, and tries to lead Ambrose into a trap where the other two come up and ambush him. Then you have the build up to that moment where Ambrose is ready to take Rollins out and out go the lights. That bump at the beginning accomplished absolutely nothing other than take away from what could have been the without a doubt match of the year.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Honestly, Ambrose/Rollins was amazing, IMO. It wasn't meant to be a great wrestling match, it was meant to be five months of hate coming to an end.

But, WWE fucked it up horribly.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Wyatt's going to go over Ambrose now as well, there's no way he loses his return feud.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cesaro/Ziggler was MOTN by a mile. Ambrose/Rollins was a really fun spectacle but it needed much more time under a toned down workover phase to get more invested into the finish they were going for. They fucked up SO MUCH SHIT on this ppv. Cesaro loses twice in a row therefore making him credible to beat no one ever, fucking Cena is the #1 contender AGAIN GOD FUCKING DAMMIT, and Ambrose is turning into the next Daniel Bryan. He's gonna get screwed time and time and time again to the point where everyone is gonna shit on your booking and your product until you actually PLEASE THE FANS.

Where do they go from here? Fuck if I know. Lesnar vs. Cena again, Team Rollins vs. Team Ambrose, maybe Rusev finally fucking challenges Sheamus, maybe Reigns will return to join Team Ambrose, question mark question mark.

SAVE US PUNK!~
SAVE US BRYAN!~


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

On the bright side nobody had to lose cleanly/both were protected.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Ziggler/Cesaro is still the MOTN for me. *** 3/4 is prob fair for it.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> On the bright side nobody had to lose cleanly/both were protected.


The only person who came out of that looking good was Wyatt.

Ambrose couldn't get the job done in 3 attempts and Rollins had the shit kicked out of him for 15 minutes.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Haven't seen the match yet so can't comment on that. Rollins is that type of heel so he'll cut a cocky promo convincing everyone he had it under control.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Ziggler/Cesaro: ****1/4
Nikki/Brie: *1/2
GoldStar/Usos: **1/2
Cena/Orton: **1/4
Sheamus/Miz: **
Rusev/Show: ***1/2
Paige/AJ: *3/4
Ambrose/Rollins: ****


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

What annoys me so much about the main event is that if you put Amrbose and Rollins in a wrestling ring for any other wrestling company the match would have been significantly better. The WWE ruined that match.

I'm not even saying it was a great match without the ending. I'm just saying that if for whatever reason the final match in this feud took place in just about any other wrestling company it would have been better. I have this local company by, In Your Face Wrestling. As low on the totem pole as indy wrestling goes. You take a good camera crew and have them film Ambbrose/Rollins in front of the 100 people at In Your Face Wrestling and it would have been better. No gimmick announce tables, no cell, no Authority Stooges, no Wyatt, none of that and they would have had an amazing, hate filled brawl like we've seen them have before. Instead we get overbooked and overproduced shit. 

I thought Amrbose and Rollins could have had a classic match. The closest comparison that I can of to that ending is to ask you what your thoughts would have been if Terry Funk attacked Ric Flair DURING his match with Steamboat instead of after it?


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Ziggler/Cesaro: ***1/4
Nikki/Brie: **
GoldStar/Usos: **3/4
Cena/Orton: **
Sheamus/Miz: ***
Rusev/Show: ***1/2
Paige/AJ: **
Ambrose/Rollins: ****1/4


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> On the bright side nobody had to lose cleanly/both were protected.


Honestly I think it would've been better for EVERYONE involved if Ambrose got the clean win. He'd finally get a victory in the biggest payoff to a long-standing rivalry since WrestleMania, a loss really wouldn't hurt Rollins at all imo (much like everyone has already forgotten that the guy was pinned by Heath Slater), and you could've brought Wyatt back tomorrow night on RAW to cause a splash and derail the momentum Ambrose would seemingly gain AFTER he got his big victory against his foe. I just think they blew this whole thing completely. There's no satisfaction anywhere to be found. This doesn't help Rollins in the slightest, this doesn't help Wyatt who stuck his nose into business that fans were REALLY invested into, and it sure as hell doesn't help Ambrose. He was completely fine and about to deliver a curb stomp, then Bray comes out of nowhere and hits a fucking side slam to allow Rollins to get the pin??? Really? Even my girlfriend sat there and went, "that's it?"

Fire the bookers.

EDIT: Whoops, hope I didn't spoil the ending for ya.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

A lot of shit just didn't make any sense on this show tonight. Why not give Cesaro and Ziggler 5 more minutes to go 1 more fall? Let Cesaro at least look like Ziggler's equal. How the fuck are they going to have Cena go over Orton and get ANOTHER shot at Lesnar? And the main event was overbooked as shit. Those two idiot stooges shouldn't have even been out there. Should have been 1 on 1 between two guys that want to kill each other. And the Wyatt interference? Couldn't we get a clean finish and still do that after? 

This company, man.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Hell in a Cell 2014 thoughts (TL;DR):

*Ziggler/Cesaro* - I thought this match was really good. I appreciated that it had callbacks from the past matches on Raw and Smackdown and incorporated it into the match which told a nice story. Ziggler working on the arm was nice and Cesaro demonstrated his strength like a boss which made for some entertaining back and forth action. I would've liked it even more if Cesaro got a fall but other than that, this was still an entertaining match to watch. Great job by both men.
*
Nikki/Brie* - Didn't watch it, didn't want to watch it lol

*Usos/Dust Brothers* - Solid tag team match, that's all there is to it.
*
Cena/Orton* - Their best match in 2014 imo, but that's not really saying much. I guess the reason why I didn't necessarily care for this match because I don't really believe the rivalry. I mean, yes, it's been brought up that they arrived in the WWE at the same time and their paths to the top were parallel to one another, but that wasn't enough to convince me that this was a feud worthy of a Hell in a Cell, a match that was supposed to be for blood feuds. I appreciated that they used the Cell as a weapon and there were some cool moments (Orton countering the AA into the RKO). Overall, I thought it was fine but I really didn't care. The video package was well done. WWE video packages are one of the few things WWE does right. LOLCENAWINS :cena3
*
Sheamus/Miz* - Mizdow is awesome. That is all.

*Rusev/Big Show* - I thought this was fine. Rusev did good work on Big Show's leg and Rusev looked like a million bucks demonstrating his strength by doing a suplex to Big Show that was done effortlessly. Rusev is looking extremely strong and credible, so that's nice.

*AJ/Paige* - It was meh. I think their Summerslam match was better. AJ and Paige are still :zayn3 though

*Ambrose/Rollins* - FINALLY. This is the match I have been waiting for. Finally, a feud of this magnitude and hatred worthy enough to be confined in a Hell in a Cell. Match starts off Mankind/Taker-esque with Ambrose climbing on the top of the Cell before the match gets officially under way which I appreciated. I liked how Rollins played the chickenshit heel by sending the new stooges, Noble and Mercury to subdue Ambrose so Rollins could climb up the cage and attack him from behind. Not going to lie, I was afraid for them as they were really high up. Ambrose/Rollins punch each other climbing down from the Cell and both men fall from a scary height onto both announcer's tables. Very HBK-esque with that spot. Both men get stretchered out but Ambrose refuses and goes on to attack Rollins and bring him to the Cell and make the match official. It sort annoyed me that Ambrose didn't really sell the fall after he got out of the stretcher, but I'll chalk it up to it being a part of his character, being crazy and being fueled by adrenaline and hate to desperately get his revenge. Ambrose hits Rollins with some nasty chair shots to the back, a nice callback to how this feud started in the first place and there were some cool spots such as Ambrose doing the diving elbow onto Rollins through the table and the outside and Rollins doing the running powerbomb through the table. Rollins hit some nasty chair shots of his own onto Ambrose's back, another nice callback. I thought the story of this match as extremely well done as I believed these two hated each other and that is what exactly what Hell in a Cell needed: Hate. Ambrose was about to do the curb stomp to Rollins through the cinderblocks, again, great callback to end the match, then Bray Wyatt appears with a nifty hologram and costs Ambrose the victory. I felt that this was extremely unnecessary and if they wanted Wyatt to return tonight, they either should've done it after Ambrose got his victory or at the end of Raw the next night. Wyatt ruined an otherwise great and enjoyable Hell in a Cell match imo. I think this could've been the best Hell in a Cell match in recent memory after Taker/HHH if it didn't have the ending. I like Wyatt but it was not his place to return during the match. I guess we'll see where this goes tomorrow on Raw. Other than that, I thought it was still an enjoyable match that told an excellent story.

Overall, I enjoyed the PPV. I could've done without the Wyatt ending though. It should've been the blow-off of the Ambrose/Rollins feud.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Honestly I think it would've been better for EVERYONE involved if Ambrose got the clean win. He'd finally get a victory in the biggest payoff to a long-standing rivalry since WrestleMania, a loss really wouldn't hurt Rollins at all imo (much like everyone has already forgotten that the guy was pinned by Heath Slater), and you could've brought Wyatt back tomorrow night on RAW to cause a splash and derail the momentum Ambrose would seemingly gain AFTER he got his big victory against his foe. I just think they blew this whole thing completely. There's no satisfaction anywhere to be found. This doesn't help Rollins in the slightest, this doesn't help Wyatt who stuck his nose into business that fans were REALLY invested into, and it sure as hell doesn't help Ambrose. He was completely fine and about to deliver a curb stomp, *then Bray comes out of nowhere and hits a fucking side slam to allow Rollins to get the pin???* Really? Even my girlfriend sat there and went, "that's it?"
> 
> Fire the bookers.


That's a good point, he didn't even hit Ambrose with his finisher until AFTER the match :fpalm


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

You may be right JE187 - again, I'll have to watch.

In other news, Cena mailed it in again. I thought Orton was great, though.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The only tonight's ending is alright is if it leads to a slow build where the payoff is at WM with Ambrose winning and then later in the night, Rollins cashes in on Reigns after he wins beginning a build up of Ambrose/Rollins/Reigns at Summerslam for the title.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'll mirror what everyone said about Rollins/Ambrose being pretty great prior to the finish.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

What I loved about Ambrose/Rollins was how they paid homage to the Foley HIAC matches. No, I am not talking about the fall on to the table spot. I am talking about the way the match was structured. Too often do HIAC matches (including Orton/Cena tonight) go through bullshit until the real heated action starts. Ambrose and Rollins went guns ablazing from the onset, which is a great idea. And then from then on, they continued to make every move feel important. That is how a HIAC match between these two should be.

The second thing I loved was how every spot had a purpose. That's where the reference to Dibiase/Duggan came in. Cinderblocks, briefcases, chairs, tools, and tables all had relevance to their actual feud. These things were not done just because they felt obligated to due to the stipulation. Ambrose hit Rollins with a chair the same way Rollins hit him with it, and Rollins hit Ambrose with a chair in the same fashion that he hit him when he turned. No spot was lost in the shuffle, and the near falls when they did decide to go for pinfalls (which were spread out well) were very convincing.

Now with this exquisite level of storytelling, a hot crowd, awesome spots, and the perfect face-heel dynamic, this company decides to give us THAT ending. That's an ending fit for the RAW after. I don't even want to give star ratings to this because I feel such cognitive dissonance. How can something so great turn out to be so confusing?


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

My few problems with Ambrose/Rollins was I wished the actual match could have went five mins longer with Rollins getting more offense. Finally, I didn't mind the Wyatt interference at first HOWEVER I hate the feel of Bray Taker now. He turns the lights out, speaks gibberish then has a the lantern in the ring that somehow produces a fucking hologram? I'm sorry I'm just not into that in 2014. Not to mention, I'd much rather Bray be who he is then have some kind of magical powers.

I have this feeling that WWE wants Bray to be their new Taker and I think it's going to fail miserably. I freaking love Bray but not like this.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

No elaboration tonight, just quick stars to throw out there as I continue to realize why I stopped watching the product in the first place. There's something definitely wrong with the WWE at the moment, as the roster looks fantastic on paper, but things just aren't clicking out there because despite how good the roster looks, the overall presentation of the product as well as ridiculous set ups and lazy booking such as "random 6 man tag combining multiple feuds tonight on Smackdown!" and "Title contender pins champion heading into the match" have led me to view the current product in a very negative light. Gonna get into this when I'm less lazy and more in the mood to write something. 

Alas, here are my snowflakes for tonight's HIAC PPV:

Cesaro/Ziggler ~ *****
Brie/Nikki ~ *OBV DIDN'T WATCH*
CodeDust/Usos ~ *** 1/4*
Cena/Orton (HIAC) ~ ****
Miz/Sheamus ~ ****
Paige/AJ ~ ** 3/4*
RUSEV/Big Show ~ *** 3/4*
Rollins/Ambrose ~ **** 1/2*

The wrestling tonight was solid, but I could care less about these bland matchups that I see every week on Raw and Smackdown. Cena/Orton was predictable with a frustrating result but it was still better than their other cell match. Things that really interested me tonight? Lana, Mizdow, Ambrose, Rollins, Wyatt, Orton was okay.... AAAAND that's it. We have tons of talent on the roster, and with Orton/Rollins & Ambrose/Wyatt on the horizon things are definitely looking up, but the depth of the tag & women's divisions SEVERELY needs to be addressed. Not a very good show tonight. Not overly BAD. Just DULL until the main event, and that's the worst thing I can say about a card.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The PPV tonight: WWE in a nutshell; aka garbage.

Remember when finishers in wrestling actually meant what the word said? WWE had to compete w/PWG on who can be worse in this department or something. Well, at least I liked Rusev vs Show. Not surprised.

Ending the show was quite obvious too. Neither guy had anything on the horizon. Of course they'll feud.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Lazyking said:


> He turns the lights out, speaks gibberish then has a the lantern in the ring that somehow produces a fucking hologram? I'm sorry I'm just not into that in 2014.


What?


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Ambrose/Rollins ***1/2

Hated the finish 
If they wanted Wyatt to appear why not after the match was over, Ambrose gets his revenge and Wyatt drops um while he's celebrating/recovering. The idea of Ambrose/Rollins possibly continuing is ridiculous, They've been going at it for 5 months and the last few weeks have been cringeworthy. Also...the hooligram ? :no: you lost me with that one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> What?


Only in movies; not in wrestling. It's a trade off as the decades roll.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Not sure if you're being literal or not Rah but a hologram appears from the Lantern. These supernatural type tricks just aren't for me nor do I think it fits Bray's gimmick. He's gone too much Taker like with the mind games.

I just want Bray to brainwash people with his words, it comes off more creepy and realistic.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

this sounds like pure gorgeous wrestlecrap. I haven't seen a WWE PPV since half of SummerSlam 2013, but I feel like I must see what happened a few hours ago.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

More ramble just b/c



Spoiler: .



I really didn't want to put up w/the PPV tonight, but I did anyways. Here's the rundown:

Dolph vs Cesaro - garbage. they botched the spot where Cesaro apparently got his arm injured for it to pretty much lead to nowhere. Cesaro had two more cool strength showcase bits in this. then all the rest was atypical crap.

Brie vs Nikki - literally was booked to be a finisher fest. literally. they're now so bad they're dipping into it w/the Divas. Nikki survived everything from Brie and still won clean. Incredible.

what was third? oh shit, Goldust. Dammit. I'm literally forgetting about him now. The match; fucking putrid.

Cena vs Orton XXXXXXXVI??? - Orton is an lol jobber. Neither tried. It was about as painful for the entire TWENTY SIX MINUTES it got, as you'd expect. Don't think it had nearly as many finishers as Cena vs Rock II, but it came close. Two "out of nowhere" RKO's and Orton still can't win. That dude is fucked. Sad that when Cena would answer back w/an FU following an RKO, I had zero emotion built up inside of me. Way to desensitized your fans. Things are so bleak.

Sheamus vs Miz - Sheamus is now involved in comedy filler. Ass.

Rusev vs Big Show - Holy crap something on the show that wasn't horrible. The only match I walked in w/any faith and luckily it didn't have that pointless Henry heel turn either. It ended clean and was worked really well. Still say the RAW match between the two was better. Dunno why this was made into a sprint b/c it didn't feel like anything on the show ate up that much time, but whatever. I'm not usually bothered by it. Still shows how the company doesn't try hard enough w/their PPV events to want to make it on par w/how much time & emphasis this program go on a weekly program. Rather than the culmination on a implied "bigger" event. Rusev's dropkick & no sweat vertical suplex rocked.

AJ vs Paige - who cares. crap.

Rollins vs Ambrose - I was cool w/the Foley love letter that formulated the start. Bump was insane. Especially in slow motion. It was kind of obvious it was gonna happen, but w/WWE in this current climate, I wasn't sure if they would let em go through w/it. Ambrose was keeping the history alive, letting it all come full circle. (not to say Rollins didn't, but the vessel here is Ambrose wants to KILL this guy for his treachery) Match itself wasn't really much other than the bare bones of what could have been. Not incorporating the finish into my thoughts here, overall it was flashy fun, but nothing pressing anything good quality levels. Appreciated the essence of hate, they've never been shy in showing that. Ambrose becomes the first guy to survive a curb stomp and I don't think the reaction from the crowd was very good. I could be wrong. Either way, that felt disappointing. They probably wanted another table spot. Called the finish when I started the show. Felt obvious b/c no way in hell was Ambrose winning this (seriously, am I the only one who felt that way?) & neither him or Bray would have anything on the horizon following the PPV, so boosh. That's why it happened. At least I'm happy about those two working vs each other. Their one match from Smackdown this year was terrific. Liked the Undertaker-esque shenanigans of Bray. I'm biased to that stuff though.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Has Hell in a Cell ever been a feud-ender like it's sold as? Perhaps I'm asking too much from "Satan's Playground" to expect a decisive end to feuds, but, from memory, this is what I've got

2014: Bray Wyatt interferes as a HOLOGRAM
2013: HHH/HBK interferes and costs Bryan the title
2012: Brad Maddox costs Ryback the match
2011: Ricardo breaks into the cage with a pipe, Cena is knocked out and locked out of the HiaC.
2010: Bearer's urn is a flashlight and costs 'Taker the match
2009: referee knocked out while Orton tapped


Holograms just be more of the same, now, I guess.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Someone will say WM 28, but it was so hammy & they're old, so it had to kind of just end all on its own.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Pre-HIAC PPV had a few. Edge/Taker and HHH/Batista were pretty payback-y and didn't have unnecessary finish shittiness. Orton/Taker, too, probably but I don't remember it too well. Did Lesnar/Taker "end the feud"? Can't think of others. HHH/Foley had a guy literally lose his career to the match and the feud still didn't end. :lmao


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Yeah1993 said:


> Pre-HIAC PPV had a few. Edge/Taker and HHH/Batista were pretty payback-y and didn't have unnecessary finish shittiness. Orton/Taker, too, probably but I don't remember it too well. Did Lesnar/Taker "end the feud"? Can't think of others. HHH/Foley had a guy literally lose his career to the match and the feud still didn't end. :lmao


HHH/Michaels except their random title match at Taboo Tuesday, HHH/Nash, & Mankind/Taker


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Taker and Foley would wrestle each other at the very next PPV, so that's a no.

Taker vs Brock is iffy. It ended following that match, but one year later they would feud again. Whole different context though. You can decide on that subject. The '03 program was only really to set up Taker vs Vince and Taker's return into the Deadman gimmick.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Taker and Foley would wrestle each other at the very next PPV, so that's a no.
> 
> Taker vs Brock is iffy. It ended following that match, but one year later they would feud again. Whole different context though. You can decide on that subject. The '03 program was only really to set up Taker vs Vince and Taker's return into the Deadman gimmick.


Yeah they wrestled each other but the feud was dead at the point, it was all about Taker possibly siding with Kane and Austin trusting Taker.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Cena/Orton mainly due to time was actually MOTN. Apart from the consecutive finishers it was enjoyable. ***1/4

Cesaro/Ziggler was so frustrating. If it's a 2/3 falls match DO not have the first fall in the first 5 minutes because it's just unrealistic. 2/3 falls matches should get at least 20 minutes. Great action in the second half of this match but had it been booked better could have been a classic. ***

Rollins/Ambrose was ruined.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Eddy Guerrero, Love Machine & Fuerza Guerrera vs. El Hijo del Santo, Octagon & Blue Panther (AAA 08.28.1993)*

x28p7jf

*El Hijo Del Santo, Octagon y Rey Misterio Jr. vs. Psicosis, Blue Panther y Fuerza Guerrera (AAA 07.15.1994)*

x28pb0p

* By request


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Now with this exquisite level of a hot crowd, awesome spots


hot crowd? any time they weren't within a few seconds of hitting a big move you could hear a pin drop in the arena. it was that way from the beginning of the show until the end.

anyways, dreadful ppv. cena/orton going 25 minutes and that gross travesty of a main event. just no. done watching ppvs unless i see something pimped by a bunch of people or it's Brock Lesnar. Fuck this company.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

HHH/Jericho was the end of their feud. I think so was the end of HIAC 2009, which was DX vs. Legacy. Seems like HIAC doesn't seem to behave much like a feud ender. Bah, not gonna say this PPV was awful because I was watching shows from 2003 throughout this week, but SvS looks desolate as desolate can be. I thought Cody loved the use of finishers in PWG.

EDIT: That Unforgiven 2006 match was the end of the McMahons vs. DX feud, but DX continued to humiliate the Spirit Squad and Vince even though they weren't feuding with them.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punk Vs Ryback/Heyman HIAC II (I can't believe they've had more than one) ended the Punk/Heyman feud that started off as a classic feud in Brock/Punk, only to slowly fizzle out and involve the likes of Ryback and Curtis Axel, so I guess that *HALF* counts as a feud ender because it DID end the feud with Punk's beatdown on Heyman, but the feud had grown so tiresome due to the absence of BROCK that it shouldn't count fully. The crazy thing about these cell matches, is that if they had Cena Vs Orton tonight to end RAW or something I wouldn't be surprised, as everything moves so damn fast in the WWE these days and talent simply CANNOT miss multiple live events due to storyline purposes because fuck it. 

Batista/Taker finished the feud in the cell and started Edge/Taker, Edge/Taker finished in the cell, DX/Legacy ended in the cell, Sheamus/Orton ended in the cell, Orton & Henry's program ended in the cell (?), as well as a few others that I don't feel like talking about at the moment because I'm lazy and burnt. 

Survivor Series looks like Cena in the main event involved in some sort of nonsense (I LOVE John Boy if you guys remember, but I haven't been enjoying his programs lately and he needs to step it up and resort to something other than a finisher fest in a big match setting. I loved it at first, but it's obvious that it's just a crutch and extremely lazy match structuring that doesn't take much creativity), Bray/Ambrose which should be absolutely fantastic and I'm looking forward to it, and Rollins/Orton which should be fantastic as it seems as if Orton has reclaimed his spots as one of the premier ring generals of this era, really stepping up as a big time presence in the light of losing guys like Punk, Bryan, Reigns, etc.. Getting Rusev with a mobile worker like Sheamus though? That has some MOTY potential right there. 

BROCK/Cena will exist only as a means to set up whoever is going to screw Cena out of the title and set up his Wrestlemania match. Whether that be Rusev, HHH, or..... Well that's all I can think of right now..... That's what the match is going to do, which is essentially going to be a rehash of this year's Cena/Orton/Bray stuff. I mean, they have Cena, BROCK, HHH, & Orton as the 4 guys at this point who a big match win over actually means something these days, but who they choose to go with as the opponents for these men should be interesting, as Rollins, Ambrose, Reigns, Bray, & Rusev all need big name opponents to keep establishing themselves as household names.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I actually have no idea what Cena is going to do at Survivor Series. I really hope it isn't Rollins.

And, like others, I wish HIAC was actually a blow off to a feud rather than just a middle point. fpalm

For Survivor Series, I expect:

Ambrose/Wyatt
Rusev/Sheamus
Harper/Ziggler (well, I hope this one)
Team Nikki/Team Brie


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

I wonder if they have Cena/Lesnar at Rumble with Cena actually winning it. Rollins cashes in, beats Cena at the February PPV and loses to Reigns at WM.

Ugh.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I think Rollins cashing in immediately after Reigns wins is more likely.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Think we'll get something like this at SVS

Cena-Rollins
Ambrose-Wyatt
Rusev-Sheamus
Henry-Big Show
Ziggler/Uso's/Los Matadores-Cesaro/Miz/Mizdow/Dust's or some meaningless midcard elimination match
Divas elimiantion amtch

Cant find a place for Orton unless they do Brock-Cena here so he can face Rollins.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Usual garbage-nothing show. Ziggler/Cesaro wasn't even something I'd call good. Cesaro's main roster matches since he's been noticed have got spottier and spottier. There was nothing to this at all, not even a cool bomb fest like Cesaro/Sheamus was. The attempt at arm work was hilariously weak and the stip was atrocious because the 1st fall was just a near fall in a regular match turned into a 3 count and the finish makes Cesaro look really bad. Someone winning 2 straight is good if the guy losing 2 straight can take it but this wasn't the context to do it in. Nikki Bella has monster tits. Don't read great but yeah they were distracting. For some reason this was like the 3rd most intriguing match on the card to me. It was garbage. Brie is so naturally dislikeable that it's always amusing when she goes for babyface pops. Usos/Rhodes was super meh. Dustin and Cody as heels do nothing for me. Rhodes Bros and Nikki both won fair and square as heels. Great. Sheamus/Miz was fun. Mizdow was better when he wasn't the focus because it was subtle humour. It's still funny though. In ring stuff was nothing.

Rollins/Ambrose was what could have been. Started off very strong but then the double bump happened and it was clear they weren't having THAT match. Ambrose bump through the table looked pretty stupid, like why the fuck did you fall? At least go through the same table and have Rollins pull him down after him. I like things to make sense which makes me a bad fan. Commentators have zero credibility and make everything sound hoaky which hurt the angle here. Ambrose was great when they let him. Actually both had awesome character spots. Actual match stuff just felt like here's the spots we want in the match and there was no time for anything else. Ambrose kicked out of the curb stomp and anyone thinking that would be 3 is either oblivious or not watching much WWE. Finish was the usual shit. I thought we were getting hologram Bray Wyatt which would have made up for everything. The lamp thing was visually impressive but no aesthetics are saving another horrible PPV main event finish. Like why the fuck would people pay money for these shows and get excited about them when there's such a high chance they'll just screw you over with the only finish you care for. Given the finish it's hilarious that Cena/Orton didn't main event. They probably will but I hate the idea of them just moving on past Ambrose/Rollins now unless they come back to it for Wrestlemania.*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

This is how they want to sell more Network subs? :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watched Cesaro/Ziggler in hopes of it being good. It wasn't.

Skipped everything up to the main event. Ambrose/Rollins was kinda fun, but overall nothing special and didn't care for the finish.

In ma new house now, still getting settled in and putting shit away (I have nowhere to put my DVD's lol). Last night though I did stick in WM 13 for the hell of it. Watched the tag titles match which I still really enjoy, and then that submission match or something between some bald dude and a guy in pink. Was ok. Probably a top 10 match ever.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Well, I'm sure as hell glad I didn't stay up to watch the main event when I had to be up at 5am for work this morning. I can stand spending a day at work tired if it's worth I to stay up, but not for that horse shit they shoveled into our faces last night.

It's interesting, I was bored with nothing to do the other day so I said fuck it and got the "Death of WCW" book on my iPad to read, and now having read that it's amazing how many of the EXACT SAME MISTAKES WCW made from 1998-2001 are the same things WWE is doing right now. Like the exact same mistakes. Somebody either doesn't know or doesn't care about history.

One of WCW's biggest problems was that during it's hottest period, 1998, when they were at their apex from a money making standpoint, they continually ran bad show after bad show after bad show. PPV's would all end the same way, with stupid run ins that sent the fans home pissed. As soon as WCW would hit on a hot angle, within 2-3 weeks they would end up ruining it because of egos backstage. Older, established talent was never used to make new stars, you didn't see Chris Jericho or Eddy Guerrero ever getting a PPV match with a Randy Savage or Hulk Hogan, let alone winning a match. The baby faces never really got their proper redemption, the NWO would just run over everyone like a freight train and never get their final comeuppance. All of that shit is stuff that WWE has been doing for the past 2 years or more, and I'm fucking sick of it.

The more I think about it the more I realize that Vince McMahon is not "a creative genius". He's just not. Genius business wise? Absolutely. Unparalleled work ethic? Absolutely. But no fucking creative genius would ever do what WWE did last night. Hell no creative genius would do most of what WWE has done the past 2 years.

The Ambrose/Rollins feud should have been this glorious, 2 star making angle. When that thing kicked off after Payback there was enough hatred and raw animosity, not to mention 2 world class talents, that it should have been next to impossible to fuck up. Rollins should have come out as the new #1 heel and Ambrose the #2 baby face (behind John Cena, no one will ever take his spot fpalm). Instead neither guy is better off than when they started. Why? Overbooking. They needed to just let Dean be Dean and let Seth be Seth. SS should have been a 10 minute molten hot brawl ending in a double DQ. NoC should have been Seth vs Dean in a Street Fight that Seth ended up winning after some interference. Then Hell in a Cell should have been an all out, 25 minute epic that culminated in Dean getting his big win. WHY THE FUCK WAS THE FEUD NOT BOOKED THIS WAY? It's so goddamn simple, wrestling is not freaking complicated. Don't script Deans or Seth's promos, just let them go out and do their thing. Don't book Dean to be goofy or funny in any way, book him as an all out bad ass. Seth should have been booked as a skilled, dominant, Triple H like heel who still ultimately is not good enough to beat Dean 1 on 1. That's the way it goes with that whole face/heel dynamic. Ugh.

Last nights Cell match started off pretty good and it brought a smile to my face to see Seth and Deans love letter to Foley. But it quickly got ruined. The announcers where as bad as I've ever seen them. No joke. All 3 of those guys should apologize to Seth and Dean for that passionless, uninspired, trivial garbage that they turned in last night. I was disgusted. JBL actually said at 1 point "have you ever seen a Cell match start like this? With 2 guys on top of the cell?" And Lawler answered "No I haven't". ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?! THE MOST FAMOUS MOMENT IN WWE HISTORY INVOLVES A MATCH STARTING ON TOP OF A CELL AND MICK FOLEY BEING THROWN OFF THE FUCKING TOP! LAWLER YOU DUMB FUCK YOU WERE ON COMMENTARY THAT NIGHT, THE SIDE KICK TO A REAL PLAY BY PLAY GUY WHO IMMORTALIZED THAT EPIC MATCH WITH THE BEST CALLS OF HIS LIFE! 

Whew, sorry I got so pissed hearing that. Cole was an embarassment to wrestling play by play last night, and Lawler and JBL should be knee capped for that atrocious performance. 

I'm too mad to even continue.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well... they did it. They fucking did it.

They officially ruined their best feud in years.

FUCK. THIS. COMPANY.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So not even Ambrose vs Rollins was safe from being ruined. This company and their ability to turn the most foolproof storylines into shit amazes me. fpalm

Now that I've calmed down after last night's frustration, I think I'll give myself the green light to carry on with the Attitude Era. A time when wrestling was actually good.  The Great One should cheer me up, ff. :rock

Not gonna watch Raw tonight, will just read the results and depending on what they do, I'll distance myself for the rest of the year. I _will_ forgive them if they have Cena vs Lesnar asap in Survivor Series or TLC and give us Orton vs Brock before Brock drops the belt at WM31, so WWE still has the chance to make up for the major fuck-up from last night.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> Not gonna watch Raw tonight, will just read the results and depending on what they do, I'll distance myself for the rest of the year. I _will_ forgive them if they have Cena vs Lesnar asap in Survivor Series or TLC and give us Orton vs Brock before Brock drops the belt at WM31, so WWE still has the chance to make up for the major fuck-up from last night.


I think you should give up on Brock/Orton entirely. Only hope I think for them is if they do the EC and have Brock and Orton both in the match. But I don't even think that's going to happen. 

It's sad though. Just when I was getting used to the idea of Brock vs. Orton, at SVS of all places where it would've been perfect, instead all we have to look forward to is yet another Brock/Cena match. I don't know if they felt Brock/Orton wouldn't make enough of an impact or not to warrant calling him in and potentially having to pay him those pro-rated 1-2 dates for buildup and/or take those dates out of Mania season. I guess I kind of understand... Brock/Orton isn't THAT big of a match and with the whole network thing, it's not like it'd really increase buys, and I doubt the subscriptions to the network wouldn't jump up just because of it. Still though, it's a fresh match and WWE once again continue to prove they won't make anyone except Cena look like the star of the show and get the biggest opportunities available. Hell, I doubt Vince will even allow Reigns to go above Cena. Reigns might get the title at Mania because Cena will be needed to squash Rusev, but ultimately it won't surprise me if this time next year, once all The Shield stuff has settled, we'll be in the middle of Cena's 16th world title reign and back to the status quo.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I just watched the MNW Cruserweight edition. It's really weird seeing WWE documenting the mistakes the WCW's made all while not realizing they're making those same mistakes. If anything this series has done, it's not highlighting WCW's downfall, it's highlighting how WWE is following in WCW's footsteps.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

ATF said:


> Well... they did it. They fucking did it.
> 
> They officially ruined their best feud in years.
> 
> FUCK. THIS. COMPANY.


Ambrose/Rollins lost steam LONG before last night. The feud peaked at Summerslam imo. I legit had no interest in the feud once Cena got involved.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> I think you should give up on Brock/Orton entirely. Only hope I think for them is if they do the EC and have Brock and Orton both in the match. But I don't even think that's going to happen.
> 
> It's sad though. Just when I was getting used to the idea of Brock vs. Orton, at SVS of all places where it would've been perfect, instead all we have to look forward to is yet another Brock/Cena match. I don't know if they felt Brock/Orton wouldn't make enough of an impact or not to warrant calling him in and potentially having to pay him those pro-rated 1-2 dates for buildup and/or take those dates out of Mania season. I guess I kind of understand... Brock/Orton isn't THAT big of a match and with the whole network thing, it's not like it'd really increase buys, and I doubt the subscriptions to the network wouldn't jump up just because of it. Still though, it's a fresh match and WWE once again continue to prove they won't make anyone except Cena look like the star of the show and get the biggest opportunities available. Hell, I doubt Vince will even allow Reigns to go above Cena. Reigns might get the title at Mania because Cena will be needed to squash Rusev, but ultimately it won't surprise me if this time next year, once all The Shield stuff has settled, we'll be in the middle of Cena's 16th world title reign and back to the status quo.


You make a good point. I'm just holding out my last bit of hope that maybe, just maybe they want to finish off Cena vs Brock (which they should've done at NOC, the fucking idiots) at Survivor Series or TLC and the reason they've been holding off on Brock vs Orton is so Orton goes fully fledged face before he gets a shot. He should complete his move by Royal Rumble time and maybe there or at the next PPV (Fast Lane or something lame like that) he gets the match.

And this is a long shot, but maybe they would even give him a WM moment by taking down Brock since it's clear they have no intention of letting Ambrose get that high up the ladder and Bryan may not be in shape in time not to mention, Reigns flopping has a 95% chance of happening.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Yeah the announcing was terrible, especially during Ambrose/Rollins.

No emotion, just monotonous conversation, and Lawler even fucking LAUGHED at one point. Wtf??? No disgust at the interruptions, or showing how gutsy it was for Ambrose to get up from the stretcher. No surprise when Dean kicked out of the curb stomp. No change when someone went through a table. Terrible.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

RAVEN said:


> Yeah the announcing was terrible, especially during Ambrose/Rollins.
> 
> No emotion, just monotonous conversation, and *Lawler even fucking LAUGHED at one point.* Wtf??? No disgust at the interruptions, or showing how gutsy it was for Ambrose to get up from the stretcher. No surprise when Dean kicked out of the curb stomp. No change when someone went through a table. Terrible.


He probably saw his reflection on his laptop screen.

:lawler


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Well Orton just stole the show right there. This guy is on one of the better two week RAW rolls he has had in his career. That might have been one of Randy's best promos of his career, especially when considering that was under a minute.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

My love for wrestling is now at an all time low. Only bright spots are Randy Orton, Rollins, Ambrose, Mizdow, and that PWG crap that reminds me that wrestling can be friggin nonsensical and fun.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

This company is in such shambles that I don't even care that the Hall of Pain has been reopened. It takes a lot for me not to care about what Mark Henry does.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

This RAW already :lmao

between the worst Orton thing ever & Henry turning heel b/c of a tag, this company guys. This company.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

For those of you who upload matches for us, what would be the most convenient way to do so? I don't want to use Windows Movie Maker because LOL. But I have all of 1985 Mid-South downloaded and I'm willing to take requests if anybody wants something from that. I just need to figure out an efficient way of isolating matches from episodes.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> For those of you who upload matches for us, what would be the most convenient way to do so? I don't want to use Windows Movie Maker because LOL. But I have all of 1985 Mid-South downloaded and I'm willing to take requests if anybody wants something from that. I just need to figure out an efficient way of isolating matches from episodes.


I use freemake video converter nowadays to cut out a specific match from a full episode. You can keep the quality and decide how large the file will be. That's how I've got matches in HD from Network downloads on XWT. I recommend one of the older version because the recent ones add a watermark in the end of the video.

King Randal brought me back with that promo. :mark: _(not watching Raw right now, though)_


----------



## Waffelz (Feb 12, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> This RAW already :lmao
> 
> *between the worst Orton thing ever* & Henry turning heel b/c of a tag, this company guys. This company.


What?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Orton's been the best thing about this show so far. It's the best he's been in at least 5 years.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao Did we just teleport back to 2012? Only it's missing the two best parts of that year.

EDIT: God bless Dolph for getting a good match out of Kane. Dude has turned into a more exciting version of a 1980s JCP babyface on the level of the Dustins and Pillmans. Not as overall talented as them, but still wonderful.

EDIT 2: :lmao did anyone catch Cena beating up Big E Langston?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

This is fuckin ridiculous. Henry turns on Big Show. YAWN. (haven't seen that match before...) and then Cesaro gets the shit treatment again. Back to Monday Night Football I go. GO SKINS


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I enjoyed Rollins/Cena even though I wasn't completely paying attention because of the Habs game. I enjoyed it though. Cena needs to learn how to sell though, holy fuck.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I actually liked RAW tonight and found that the three hours flew by pretty quickly which is something I don't say often. Orton, once again, went HAM on the mic. God, I hope this leads to something great. Also, Ambrose is just fucking owning it right now. Oh and Bray Wyatt has already been resurrected. Hopefully, they don't kill his momentum again. 

There's so much talent right now in the WWE, it's a shame that the company is in the position there in. Plus, when you look at NXT the future just keeps looking brighter. Could you imagine how badass RAW would be when the likes of Zayn and Neville get called up? Don't even get me started on Enzo. The dude is this generation's Road Dogg- just oozing with charisma. 

The WWE has proven one thing. It's not talent that makes a show entertaining. It's how that talent is used. As long as it keeps being the John Cena Show, this company isn't going anywhere. It's not that Cena being the centre of attention is the problem I have. It's that they can't book him to be the centre of attention without taking the spotlight away from other guys. All his feud with Rollins is is nothing but filler for when Cena has to face Lesnar. That's the main problem with the product. WWE has lost the art of building guys without destroying the credibility of other.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Well, I'm sure as hell glad I didn't stay up to watch the main event when I had to be up at 5am for work this morning. I can stand spending a day at work tired if it's worth I to stay up, but not for that horse shit they shoveled into our faces last night.
> 
> It's interesting, I was bored with nothing to do the other day so I said fuck it and got the "Death of WCW" book on my iPad to read, and now having read that it's amazing how many of the EXACT SAME MISTAKES WCW made from 1998-2001 are the same things WWE is doing right now. Like the exact same mistakes. Somebody either doesn't know or doesn't care about history.
> 
> ...


Yeah that really annoyed me as well. He was sitting right there when Foley was thrown off the cell. Foley legitimately landed right in front of him.



Seabs said:


> *Usual garbage-nothing show. Ziggler/Cesaro wasn't even something I'd call good. Cesaro's main roster matches since he's been noticed have got spottier and spottier. There was nothing to this at all, not even a cool bomb fest like Cesaro/Sheamus was. The attempt at arm work was hilariously weak and the stip was atrocious because the 1st fall was just a near fall in a regular match turned into a 3 count and the finish makes Cesaro look really bad. Someone winning 2 straight is good if the guy losing 2 straight can take it but this wasn't the context to do it in. Nikki Bella has monster tits. Don't read great but yeah they were distracting. For some reason this was like the 3rd most intriguing match on the card to me. It was garbage. Brie is so naturally dislikeable that it's always amusing when she goes for babyface pops. Usos/Rhodes was super meh. Dustin and Cody as heels do nothing for me. Rhodes Bros and Nikki both won fair and square as heels. Great. Sheamus/Miz was fun. Mizdow was better when he wasn't the focus because it was subtle humour. It's still funny though. In ring stuff was nothing.
> 
> Rollins/Ambrose was what could have been. Started off very strong but then the double bump happened and it was clear they weren't having THAT match. Ambrose bump through the table looked pretty stupid, like why the fuck did you fall? At least go through the same table and have Rollins pull him down after him. I like things to make sense which makes me a bad fan. Commentators have zero credibility and make everything sound hoaky which hurt the angle here. Ambrose was great when they let him. Actually both had awesome character spots. Actual match stuff just felt like here's the spots we want in the match and there was no time for anything else. Ambrose kicked out of the curb stomp and anyone thinking that would be 3 is either oblivious or not watching much WWE. Finish was the usual shit. I thought we were getting hologram Bray Wyatt which would have made up for everything. The lamp thing was visually impressive but no aesthetics are saving another horrible PPV main event finish. Like why the fuck would people pay money for these shows and get excited about them when there's such a high chance they'll just screw you over with the only finish you care for. Given the finish it's hilarious that Cena/Orton didn't main event. They probably will but I hate the idea of them just moving on past Ambrose/Rollins now unless they come back to it for Wrestlemania.*


WWE did the same thing for Ziggler/Ambrose that they did with Usos/Wyatts a few months ago. Both matches would have been worked exactly the same without the 2-out-of-3 falls stipulation because the first 2 falls wouldn't end any other match. I don't know why they even bother with the match stipulation. 

And in defense of Ambrose falling off the cell he hit Rollins with a headbutt and that's what sent them both off. It wasn't a punch or anything it was a headbutt and that actually fits perfectly with Ambrose's character. Who would headbutt someone when they are dangling off a cell? A lunatic that cares more about hurting his opponent than keeping himself safe would. I didn't love the match but once I saw that it was a headbutt that sent them off the cage I wasn't annoyed with that. I mean the match had plenty of other problems, I honestly thought they just approached it the totally wrong way.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Watched some of the PPV. 

Thought Ziggler/Cesaro was pretty great minus the shitty end to the first fall. I don't even mind a fall ending via roll-up all that much but the ref took fucking forever to get in position and make the count. Really liked the early chain wrestling. I'm a sucker for good matwork where it actually looks like the two guys are struggling for position and not like they're just trading holds. Cesaro's great at that and it was cool to see Ziggler hold his own. It wasn't quite Cesaro/Sheamus matwork but it was better than 95% of WWE matwork. The second fall was fun, if a little spotty. I saw the superplex strength spot coming but that didn't stop it from looking amazing. Definitely a good match imo and if I had to choose between calling it great or bad I would go with great, no question. Didn't expect them to go out of their way to make Ziggler look good like that. I guess they can't shit on him and Cesaro in the same match. 

I enjoyed Nikki/Brie and I don't feel bad about it at all. That match had some of the stiffest shots I think I've ever seen in a divas match, plus Nikki Bella's ridiculous body. Brie absolutely ate a knee that looked like it would send teeth flying. Pretty sure I liked Stephanie/Brie more but I would re-watch this without complaint. Tag titles was boring and weird and not as good as Bella v Bella. Cody Rhodes seems like he loves the Stardust gimmick though. 

Started watching Orton/Cena but it was so Orton/Cena-y that it made me fast forward to the main event. I'll have to go back and watch Rusev/Show at some point. Ambrose and Rollins brought it (duh, they're the best) but it wasn't the match that me or anyone else (I feel confident with that assumption) wanted to see. It's a shame that they got saddled with the WWE main event bullshit and never got to flesh out their feud fully in the ring. I got nothing to say about that finish that hasn't already been said. I'll probably watch Survivor Series but there's no way in hell I'm watching any of this company's weekly programming.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Raw was saved by 1 guy and 1 guy only... THE BIG GUY~!


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Really hope THE BIG GUY ascends to be one of the top dogs and they utilize his strengths wisely, but I have a strong feeling that if these "Feed Me More" chants recur, we will have Cena doing them with Ryback in a matter of a month or so while they contort Ryback's character and booking to ensure he doesn't threaten Reigns' slot. Low optimism leads to low disappointment while low optimism and high results yields good rewards.

At least Ryback's muscle mass is Vince Mcmahon Jr's wet dream, so maybe they wont mess with BIG GUY too much. I'm not holding my breath on that though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Finally started to watch Danielson's ROH Title Run. Some ratings so far:

Bryan Danielson vs James Gibson - Glory By Honor IV ****1/4
Bryan Danielson vs Austin Aries - Enter The Dragon ***3/4
Bryan Danielson vs Steve Corino - Buffalo Stampede ***1/4
Bryan Danielson vs Roderick Strong - This Means War ****
Bryan Danielson vs Chris Sabin - Showdown in Motown ***1/2
Bryan Danielson vs Roderick Strong - Vendetta ****3/4
Bryan Danielson vs Azriel - Night of Tribute *1/2
Bryan Danielson vs Christopher Daniels - Night Of Tribute ****1/4


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Good Raw tonight.

Kane/Ziggler was actually quite decent. 

Cena/Rollins was a good TV main event, upto the interference.

The ending brawl made no sense though :lmao

And of course that opening segment. Everyone brought it :mark:


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Brock said:


> Finally started to watch Danielson's ROH Title Run. Some ratings so far:
> 
> Bryan Danielson vs James Gibson - Glory By Honor IV ****1/4
> Bryan Danielson vs Austin Aries - Enter The Dragon ***3/4
> ...


Danielson vs. Sabin may very well be one of the best dick performances ever. Love that match with all my heart. Need to rewatch the Daniels match as I haven't seen that in ages but I'd agree with all of your other ratings, barring the Sabin match ofc, (I have it at ****, maybe + 1/4 higher.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I also loved his heel turn, and also in his match against Sabin, he used most of Roderick Strong's offense as he was due to face him next, and as you say, was a total dick lol, also him acting like a cocky prick in the match against Azriel in preparation to face Daniels.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

People really thought that Orton promo was amazing? Christ.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Bubz said:


> People really thought that Orton promo was amazing? Christ.


I didn't even think it was Orton's best. But that's just like, my opinion, man.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I thought he was hilarious. Was he trying to imitate Roddy Piper or something? Like, dude, you do not play a good madman.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Back at it with the Attitude Era and got me another classic segment right from the beginning. Just amazing work by everyone and awesome crowd.

xxxfea



Yeah1993 said:


> I thought he was hilarious. Was he trying to imitate Roddy Piper or something? Like, dude, you do not play a good madman.


Wait, you actually watched it? I thought you haven't seen anything WWE-related since last year. :lol

---------------

I honestly can't find a fault with Orton's short promo last night. It's not his best, but rarely has he been this on point. Oftentimes he's sounded monotone as if he's memorizing a script, but last night it all came off as real. The yelling and fast talking didn't feel forced one bit. He was probably channeling his inner rage because he's well known for being a hot head. Don't think he was playing anything.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That was the first ever RAW I watched. The foolish six year older in me thought Rock was the babyface and Austin was the heel :lol. Rock is going to start having some really fun matches with midcarders such as X-Pac and Al Snow. Make sure to avoid Undertaker/Austin material, especially the buried alive match. My goodness I did not think wrestling could get that boring. The worst part of all was that Austin pulled a 2012 John Cena and main evented over the championship feud for no good reason. God bless Rock and Foley for giving us a glorious feud.

Orton's promo was great. Highlight on RAW for me though is still Ziggler somehow carrying Kane to that good match. The roster has a lot of top babyfaces now though assuming Orton has turned (Cena, Orton, Ambrose, Reigns, Ryback, Bryan when he comes back, Sheamus, Ziggler, Big Show). Seems like overkill. And the worst part of it all is that only one of these guys gets to fight for the championship.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I will not avoid the Buried Alive match since it's a PPV main event and I've watched plenty of boring ones already, I can handle one more.

It's mind blowing just how dull Undertaker is this year. Boring matches and largely boring character with monotonous, formulaic promos. Kane looks like he'll finally be dropped down to the midcard which is where he belongs. Austin is excellent but I was starting to get tired of him as champion, so they did the right thing by putting the belt on Rock and saving Austin's big redemption storyline for Wrestlemania XV.

It sucks that by the time Rock takes the #1 face spot in late 1999, he modifies his character and no longer talks with that arrogant, deep voice. That and also getting rid of the Elvis like haircut with the sideburns. He just screams "cool motherfucker" with this look. I'm too lazy to let my facial hair grow but on multiple occasions, I've considered growing out a sideburn similar to that of Rock because I kinda look like a lighter skin version with it when doing The People's Eyebrow.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> I will not avoid the Buried Alive match since it's a PPV main event and I've watched plenty of boring ones already, I can handle one more.
> 
> It's mind blowing just how dull Undertaker is this year. Boring matches and largely boring character with monotonous, formulaic promos. Kane looks like he'll finally be dropped down to the midcard which is where he belongs. Austin is excellent but I was starting to get tired of him as champion, so they did the right thing by putting the belt on Rock and saving Austin's big redemption storyline for Wrestlemania XV.
> 
> It sucks that by the time Rock takes the #1 face spot in late 1999, he modifies his character and no longer talks with that arrogant, deep voice. That and also getting rid of the Elvis like haircut with the sideburns. He just screams "cool motherfucker" with this look. I'm too lazy to let my facial hair grow but on multiple occasions, I've considered growing out a sideburn similar to that of Rock because I kinda look like a lighter skin version with it when doing The People's Eyebrow.


If you're going to watch Buried Alive, don't skip Owen Hart vs. Steve Blackman. Great match and the crowd goes insane for Owen. Rock/Mankind from that show is not bad either.

Probably the most disappointing thing I noticed when I went through all these AE rewatches was how boring Undertaker was. Initially he was a highlight of the show during the Kane feud and the Austin Summerslam buildup, but immediately once he turned heel/tweener/Kane, everything went terrible. Like I don't know what it is about the Deadman, but that character just doesn't work as a non-babyface. And Taker's promos were not as scary as I remember them being as a six year older; they were awful. It only gets worse from here because Ministry Taker does not hold up one bit. And I agree with you about Kane. He was a generally good character around this time, but Kane is just not meant to be a perennial main eventer.

I'm afraid I have some good news. Rock actually keeps the haircut and deep voice all throughout 1999, so you'll see a good amount of that babyface version of Rock. His character is really a face that thinks he's a heel, and it's hilarious. I would have to say 1999 Rock is the best year anybody ever had on the mic. And it's not that 2000 Rock was much worse. Although he stops using the deep voice, he's still so much fun to watch AND he becomes a top tier wrestler. That change in look and voice was really weird though because it happened on a random episode of Smackdown and nobody addressed it. But good days are ahead for Rock, and it won't stop.

:lmao There is a segment on RAW in 2003 where Test and Steiner force Stacy Keibler to kiss their asses.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just had a look at the card, I think I'll check out the entire PPV for a change. Nothing seems like it's gonna be truly bad on paper.

I know The Rock is still gonna rule after the haircut/voice changes but there's just something awesome about his more arrogant incarnation and I hate seeing it go away. How often are appearances like this explained on screen, though? Randy Orton's change in appearance was far more drastic and the only time they ever said anything on it was the short period in 05 when he cut his hair and Vince made fun of him for it.

2003 on Raw has plenty of comedic segments. Goldust is a legend for doing those stuttering segments without laughing. :lmao You already seen the Lance Storm interrogation, right? Austin is just something else.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> Wait, you actually watched it? I thought you haven't seen anything WWE-related since last year. :lol


I put it on sometimes if there's nothing on. I'm so disinterested in the product though that I actually turned the TV off during Mark Henry's entrance while he was about to be in the same ring as Goldust. Well I had to leave the house and do stuff anyway so IDK if it counts.



funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao There is a segment on RAW in 2003 where Test and Steiner force Stacy Keibler to kiss their asses.


oh fuck off :lmao


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The rest of this Raw episode was pretty fun. Hawk threatens to jump from the titantron and Droz pushes him off. :lmao Mankind is hanging around in a boiler room and Vince's stooges are scared because of some "weird noises". :lmao

Rock vs Austin is a fun main event with a SUPER HOT crowd and you get a good shot of a guy wearing green jumping the barricade and posing in the camera's view at ringside before security takes him away and they show a shot of Vince at ringside with the invader being carried away by security in the background. :lmao


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Just finished HIAC

Ziggler/Cesaro was enjoyable, imo. Nothing amazing but it kept me entertained. Didn't dislike Brie vs Nikki. Weird that the finish was clean though. Tag titles match was meh. Nothing we haven't seen 60 times between those teams. Cena/Orton was fucking awful. Up there with my hate for HBK/HHH HIAC already. 26 minutes felt like an hour and a half. Sheamus/Miz was nothing we haven't seen. Big Show/Rusev was pretty good. Rusev is fucking great. AJ/Paige was ok, not as good as their Summerslam match which I thought went pretty well. Main event was really entertaining, imo. The spot off the side of the cell was crazy and it made sense because Ambrose headbutted him. Ambrose is the kind of guy that would take out Rollins with a headbutt even if it would knock him off too. He used headbutt and hit himself with the recoil. Happens all the time with Cubone. I'm fine with the ending because it means we'll still get a re ignition of this feud. Obviously it waters down the HIAC even mroe but it's already fully underwater from earlier in the night.

Overall it was your average PPV. Nothing really special. Glad Rusev, Rhodes Bros and Ziggler won though.


----------



## THH (Feb 2, 2005)

I've been on a WCW 95/96 kick lately, the crowds make it hard to watch sometimes. Like you could hear a pin drop the entire Slamboree '96. 

Dirty Dick Slater & Earl Robert Eaton vs VK Wallstreet & Jim Duggan - ¼*


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

*WWE HELL IN A CELL 2014*

Kickoff: Mark Henry vs Bo Dallas N/A

WWE Intercontinental Championship - 2 out of 3 Falls Match
Dolph Ziggler (c) vs Cesaro ***

Brie Bella vs Nikki Bella 3/4*

WWE Tag Team Championship
Goldust & Stardust (c) vs The Usos **1/2

#1 Contendership - Hell in a Cell Match
Randy Orton vs John Cena **

WWE United States Championship
Sheamus (c) vs The Miz *

Big Show vs Rusev *1/2

WWE Diva's Championship
AJ Lee (c) vs Paige **

Hell in a Cell Match
Dean Ambrose vs Seth Rollins **1/4

Rating: 3.25


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> 2003 on Raw has plenty of comedic segments. Goldust is a legend for doing those stuttering segments without laughing. :lmao You already seen the Lance Storm interrogation, right? Austin is just something else.


:lmao Oh man, that segment was hilarious. Lance Storm's slow babyface turn was actually very good. The rumor at the time was that Storm would be the guy that saved Austin's job at Survivor Series and won the match for Austin's team. I would have loved to see that happen as a Storm and Austin fan, but alas it's RAW 2003. I love the Vitamin C storyline with Lita and Trish. Too funny. And The Rock making fun of La Resistance. Too good. The year sucked for the most part, but I did find some fun segments. Jericho in particular was spectacular in comparison to the rest of the roster. Not one of his peak years, but the man carried trash like Goldberg, Nash, the Dudleys, Rico, and even Miss freaking Jackie to good matches. And on the mic, he was unmatched.

One thing that really surprised me though was how poor the commentary was. Now it's clearly not as bad as whatever we have now, but Jerry Lawler was not funny at all. You can clearly tell he didn't give a shit. But Jim Ross. I can't believe I'm saying this, but Michael Cole was a better commentator than JR in 2003. Ross kept getting fired and hired, and while he was fired, the Coach filled in for him and did a better job. One of JR's best talents was his ability to put over both the face and the heel equally well while still emphasizing the face/heel dynamic. In 2003, JR just blindly criticized heels even when they were clearly not in the wrong. It wouldn't surprise me if he lost his passion that year temporarily, but JR oftentimes did not even call the matches. I don't know if anyone else noticed this peculiar sight.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*The Undertaker vs 'Stone Cold' Steve Austin (Summerslam 1998 Hype Video)*



From Live PPV.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*sigh* how did so many matches between them suck so hard? Two Texan's beating the shit out of each other should be a classic damn near every time, not a shit fest .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Because Texas sucks. But their IYH match from 97 rules. But Texas and all of the south is filth.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Their Cold Day in Hell match is sooooo damn dull.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Their 'First Blood' match is considered the 'best' one, isnt it?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not by me it ain't . 3rd best. Out of 3 good ones.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Or, was it JD'01 lol.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

No it is Backlash 02


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yup, they have 3 good ones (out of what felt like 6 or 7) - SummerSlam, First Blood and Judgment Day. To think that the two greatest in the company's history kinda sucked together is a travesty.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The only 3 Austin/Taker matches I like are:

Judgement Day 2001: ****
Fully Loaded 1999: ***3/4
Summerslam 1998: ***1/2

JR actually asked Steve on his podcast why none of their matches lived up to their potential. His answer was essentially "too many cooks in the kitchen". Austin was accustomed to calling all of his matches, Taker was accustomed to calling all of his matches, both guys had a ton of respect for each other so they would split the match 50/50 and that led to the disappointing matches we got. You'd think with those two guys it would be an instant classic every time they lock up, but really only Judgement Day reached that "great" level. Damn shame it is.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao Mid South territory. I just witnessed Jake Roberts no-sell Muhammad Ali's punches and dance around while fighting for a championship.

Surprised by how people here aren't fans of the IYH:CDIH match. I really liked it and I would put it up with Taker's other title defenses that year such as the Bret Summerslam match, Mankind bout, and the Vader gem. We are all in agreement that the 7/21/97 flag match is the best of its genre right? And it's an overall super fun match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Cold Day in Hell match with Taker and Austin is a snoozefest. About as boring as it can get. The Raw match they have from February 97 is much better.

Is their Raw match with the title change in 99 any good? The one that got the highest rating for a match in Raw history.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Taker/Austin actually have FOUR matches I like!

JD 01 - ****1/4
BL 02 - ****1/4
First Blood - ***1/2

And possibly controversially... OVER THE EDGE 1999 - ***1/4. Not surprised most people forget this match or haven't seen it or just don't think much to it based on what happened to Owen Hart earlier in the night, and that's understandable. However if you watch that match alone without the rest of the show and pretend like it's any other PPV main event I'm hoping people will enjoy it .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I thought that match was very good. Fast paced and heated. But Undertaker's punches in that match are hilarious. It was this match that convinced me as a kid that wrestling is predetermined because Undertaker's punches were that bad :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bad punches in Undertaker/Austin matches seems to be a trend for the most part lol. Their awful brawling in SS 98 makes me :lmao every time too . They get it right for their JD and BL matches though .

Speaking of punches, Cesaro hit a pretty epic one on Ziggler at HIAC. Basically the highlight of the entire match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ill have try and watch it soon.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

#ROOT said:


> Speaking of punches, Cesaro hit a pretty epic one on Ziggler at HIAC. Basically the highlight of the entire match.


dat right jab


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bryan Danielson vs Rocky Romero - Steel Cage Warfare *****
Bryan Danielson vs Naomichi Marufuji - Final Battle 2005 ****3/4*
Bryan Danielson vs Chris Hero - Hell Freezes Over *****
Bryan Danielson w/ Jay Lethal vs Austin Aries & Roderick Strong - Tag Wars 2006 *****1/4*
Bryan Danielson vs AJ Styles - Dissension ******

More Danielson ROH Champion ratings.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao So I decided to short the WWE stock in hopes that tomorrow's earnings reports shows that the Network is doing very poorly. If it turns out that :brock isn't a draw, then I make tons of money. If it also turns out that Mania season draws well and create tons of hype, then I'll be a rich man thanks to the WWE if I sell high.

So besides Andy Kaufman in Memphis and Muhammad Ali in Mid-South, were there any other celebrities that made their presence in a particular territory?


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I thought that match was very good. Fast paced and heated. But Undertaker's punches in that match are hilarious. It was this match that convinced me as a kid that wrestling is predetermined because Undertaker's punches were that bad :lol


I now must see this.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What were the Rey Mysterio Vs. Shawn Michaels matches like, in 2005 and 2010?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I liked the 2010 match. Lots of fun. Didn't like the 2005 one, but I can't blame them. Their minds were clearly not into it with Eddie's death and all.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

According to Stevie Richards, THE SANDMAN WAS A TRAINER AT ONE POINT!!!! THE SANDMAN!!!! I didn't think anyone would top the Sabu story I shared last week for recent wrestling stories/factoids, but this has a legitimate shot. Sandy could I guess give some semblance of decent selling time to time, but that man has some of the worst combination of intagible/tangible abilities I have ever seen.


----------



## 96powerstroker (Mar 13, 2013)

First time ever seeing wm 25 hbk vs taker. Yes 1st time & it was a classic. Its everything ppl wanna hear so 5 stars


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I am not ashamed to say that I like Sandman the same way that Yeah1993 likes Goldberg. He definitely sucks, but something about him beating the shit out of people with kendo sticks while drinking beer and acting like a dumbass is always interesting. One thing I can't say about Sandman is that he's dull. He has no business training anyone though.

If anyone wants to watch a hidden gem, go check out Booker/Shane/Bubba/D-Von vs. Jericho/Christian/Dupree/Grenier (10/13/03)


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao So I decided to short the WWE stock in hopes that tomorrow's earnings reports shows that the Network is doing very poorly. If it turns out that :brock isn't a draw, then I make tons of money. If it also turns out that Mania season draws well and create tons of hype, then I'll be a rich man thanks to the WWE if I sell high.
> 
> So besides Andy Kaufman in Memphis and Muhammad Ali in Mid-South, were there any other celebrities that made their presence in a particular territory?


Don't tell me you actually bought WWE stock...


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Holy fuck this is corny. :lmao :lmao :lmao

On the same episode, Mizark's reaction to Chyna accepting a date with him had me rolling. :lmao

EDIT: Rock vs X-Pac was a fun main event.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I am not ashamed to say that I like Sandman the same way that Yeah1993 likes Goldberg. He definitely sucks


I like Goldberg b/c he's good.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I like Goldberg b/c he's good.


:mark: YES.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Recommendations for some good DDP matches please.


Recently been watching some videos of him on Youtube and he's got a charisma about him that makes me want to watch.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

vs Goldberg (Halloween Havoc 1998)
vs Sting (Nitro 1998 and DEFINITELY April 26th,1999)
vs Hogan (Yes, Hogan - Just watch DDP carry him lol)
vs Savage (Any really, Spring Stampede, Halloween Havoc, Great American Bash)
vs Raven (Spring Stampede 1998/Slamboree 1998)
vs Benoit (Forgot the date, a PPV from 1998)

Plus the best Diamond Cutter EVER:






Plus:










He actually did that flip too in his debut match on Nitro.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Oh thanks will catch them. Give yourself a self high five for your good work :lol



Everyone please watch the first episode of Lucha Underground for the hilarity :lmao


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Any means of seeing it? Blue Demon Jr against Chavo Guerrero has the possibility of being the dullest match in America this year.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Benoit/DDP match is SuperBrawl 1998, that and the Nitro match with Sting in 1999 are prob my 2 favorite DDP matches. I binge watched a bunch of DDP several months ago and came out really appreciating the guy. He was pretty damn great in the ring.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

KOTR 2001 against Undertaker is DDP's best match 8*D.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DDP/Goldberg also had a decent match on Nitro in '99 i think, probably had a fucky finish though. Also, DDP/Bret Hart from '98 is good too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah the Nitro match between the two was almost identical to their HH 98 match, but with a shoddy finish. Still good stuff though, kinda like how the 2 Sting/DDP Nitro matches from 98 and 99 are essentially the same, but one has a few differences to make it better (the 99 one).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

How did i guess the finish. Trouble with WCW, most match recs end with the 'Shitty finish' caveat, esp the Nitro era.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

And don't forget to absolutely, 100% SKIP the Goldberg/DDP HH PPV rematch. Urgh. Just urgh. They had one classic on PPV and the other might as well have never happened .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched HIAC up until Orton/Cena. I did like the two RKO's on Cena, the one when Cena came running off the ropes, and the other counter from the AA.

Match was still pretty shit though IMO. I just can't deal with Cena anymore, just sick of it really, even in matches. Ill watch Brock/Cena, in the hope that Brock just destroy's him again, but id much rather something else.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, now that I calmed down regarding the end of HIAC and just how awful Raw looked via results (didn't bother to watch it).

I think HIAC might just be one of the worst booked shows ever. Quite frankly.

Ziggler/Cesaro was great, still had its missing points (armwork didn't go much where, and Cesaro losing in 2 straight falls was all levels of WTF), but they still had enough back-and-forth awesomeness and solid work all throughout to make it worth. I liked Dusts/Usos as well, though I'm getting bored of seeing them wrestle - better, I'm getting completely bored of the Usos altogether. The Dusts deserve better. Show/Rusev was exactly what I hoped it would've been, although a little shorter, and I thought it was yet another really good Rusev match. Not as good as their Raw match, but still not too far.

Ambrose/Rollins, though, is the point I wanna get into the most. I would still give the match a solid ***1/2, POSSIBLY ***3/4 in a good day. It was still really fun, really violent and both men crammed in some phenomenal character work. Plus, any match that is basically a blowjob to the Foley HIAC's deserves my respect. But the match was so mishandled by Vince and the Million Stooges it's not even funny. It was about half as long as it should've been, the big announce table bump should've happened DURING the match (and Ambrose shouldn't have fell, or at least being pulled by Rollins or viceversa), interference shouldn't have happened, and, of course, let's not even get into how idiotically misguided the ending was. Not only should've Ambrose won, but Bray Wyatt should've waited until either Raw to attack Ambrose, or something else, I don't know. If they want Bray to return to the ME scene, fine, I'm all for it, but did you REALLY have to ruin the Ambrose/Rollins feud, not giving us the finale we've been waiting for months? Middle finger goes to you, Vince.

And the rest of the show was just meh. Brie/Nikki was surprisingly enjoyable but not good or anything. Cena/Orton... LOL. Not the DUD from the Rumble but I still laugh at the idea that a forced finisher fest w/no context is "epic". The Sandow Show was fucking awesome... not so awesome was its in-ring sideshow. And AJ/Paige was crappy as well, bar the good SummerSlam match, those two have ZERO chemistry together.

And by the looks of Survivor Series, w/the exception of Ambrose/Wyatt which was still botched w/its idiotic booking, I don't give a shit about anything. Call me when it's Royal Rumble time, please.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

This has been one of Cena's absolute worst years from an in ring perspective. He was really, really good for the most part in 2013 but god has he ever sucked this year. What's his best match been? The Cesaro match on Raw for sure, the Wyatt match at Mania was good too, but other than that everything has been "okay" at best. Hes just mailing it in, and it fucking pisses me off. If your gonna always be on top cause your John Cena you should atleast give the fans great matches so they can tolerate your wack, stale ass character and your cookie cutter promos. Cena's selling has been especially bad this year, his selling sucked in every single match other than the Brock SS match.

Alright I'll stop ranting on Cena, it's an old, worn out topic. But FFS sometimes when I step back and realize that son of a bitch has been on top for 10 FUCKING YEARS CONSECUTIVELY WITHOUT EVEN THE SLIGHTEST CHANGE IN CHARACTER it makes me want to beat my head into a wall.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Not sure if it's just me in this thread that actually kinda likes Rusev, but im not looking forward to the day when he is fed to Cena, which im sure will be soon.

As a big Brock mark as you know, i can't say im even looking forward to Brock/Cena all that much, apart from the fact that Brock of course will at least be there.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You know, on a closer look, I MIGHT just give Ambrose/Rollins HIAC the ***3/4 bump, since there are so many little things about the amazing character work in that match that really shine through. Like how Ambrose started by sitting and screaming at Rollins how 'he stabbed him in the back' and proceeded to attack Rollins w/a chair in his back, nonstop. Or, no matter how terrible the booking of it was, that creepy Bray Wyatt chant and fog before his appearance. You know, those little things that make a good match great. Too bad the booking was poop, otherwise we'd have a guaranteed ****+ classic, even in 15 minutes.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Disagree that Cena's had a bad year from an in ring perspective. 

Cesaro on Raw, Wyatt at Wrestlemania/Payback and Lesnar at Summerslam/Night Of Champions are all ****+ for me.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cena's definitely had worse years than 2014, but there is no question that he's not as good a big time player as people say he is. I think Cena has simply forgotten how to structure a match, so he now depends on finisher trading to compensate. Not that he ever was a top ten worker in the WWE, but he certainly isn't now.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

2014 is probably Cena's worst year since 2004. Don't know what's happened but all he does nowadays is spam finishers. I mean he's done it in previous years too like in WM29 and just about any Punk match (specially NOC), but now it's really gotten bad and the finishing sequences for his matches are always predictable because it always goes: Opponent hits finisher, Cena kicks out at 2, some rest then opponent picks Cena up, AA OUTTA NOWHERE, opponent kicks out at 2.

Don't know how anyone can say he's better than Orton atm. For some reason he gets a pass in this thread no matter how many shoddy performances yet Orton has one subpar match and gets crucified.

Only singles Cena matches this year that I'd rate are the Raw matches with Orton (from February) and Cesaro, WM with Wyatt and the Brock matches. I also enjoyed Royal Rumble with Orton but I can exclude that "objectively".


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Exactly, there is hardly any build or anything to Cena's matches, it's been even worse this year IMO. He just gets in there, does his normal shit, atomic drop, stupid hand raise shit, five knuckle bloody shuffle, then goes straight for the AA. I swear in one tag match, that is exactly what happened.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

As long as he doesn't beat Lesnar, he can continue to perform badly as long as he likes.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

I liked his match with Rollins this Raw but I've noticed in that match and HIAC as well, he goes straight for his usual routine of shoulderblocks to Five knuckle shuffle and AA everytime he gets in offense. And both these matches were over 20 minutes. All he did was his routine and straight to either the AA or STF.


He seems to be phoning it in since SS now tbh.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, I've come to notice that Orton doesn't really have a whole lot of defenders out here, especially compared to Cena whose only GOOD performances this year were against Cesaro, Bray (WM) and Lesnar. Otherwise, he's been pretty lazy all year long. Cody/Hayley laughed at my statement that Cena only puts good stuff in occasionally - well, Cena himself hasn't proved me wrong, has he? Orton this year has been the most consistent in years. Yeah, not all his matches/performances are good, but compared to, say, 2012-early 2013 Orton, the motivation is quite WAAAAYYY higher. And the excuse that the guy doesn't have to put on stellar performances every night thanks to all of his work as the face of a company is becoming more and more apologist, especially considering pairs like Austin 2001 and Flair 1989 exist after all.

Anyways, could we discuss ourselves a forgotten classic in DX/Legacy SS 09? Cause that Tag is pretty damn awesome.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> 2014 is probably Cena's worst year since 2004. Don't know what's happened but all he does nowadays is spam finishers. I mean he's done it in previous years too like in WM29 and just about any Punk match (specially NOC), but now it's really gotten bad and the finishing sequences for his matches are always predictable because it always goes: Opponent hits finisher, Cena kicks out at 2, some rest then opponent picks Cena up, AA OUTTA NOWHERE, opponent kicks out at 2.
> 
> Don't know how anyone can say he's better than Orton atm. For some reason he gets a pass in this thread no matter how many shoddy performances yet Orton has one subpar match and gets crucified.
> 
> Only singles Cena matches this year that I'd rate are the Raw matches with Orton (from February) and Cesaro, WM with Wyatt and the Brock matches. I also enjoyed Royal Rumble with Orton but I can exclude that "objectively".


I think the reason people give Orton more shit is pretty simple, Orton at his absolute best is better than Cena could ever dream of being. Seeing Cena improve from the bum ass worker he was in 2005 it's easier to cut him some slack because from the get go most people didn't have sky high expectations for him from the beginning. So when he turns it up and gives us matches like the HBK Raw match from 2007 or the Punk series, or even the Lesnar match at Extreme Rules, we are all like "Damn Cena killed it!" When Cena turns in garbage like the Extreme Rules and Payback matches with Wyatt we roll our eyes and say "it's John Cena, what did you expect?" 

With Orton it's a completely different story. Orton from 2004-2006 was one of the very best wrestlers in the world, and unfortunately injuries and personal issues kept him from reaching his otherworldy potential. Instead of cutting Orton some slack when he goes through the motions and realizing he's been on a grueling schedule for the past several years, we get mad and say "That damn Orton, he's being lazy again!" Plus, it's well known Orton is a dick and Cena is a Boy Scout. It's just easier to despise Orton and seek out his flaws and cover up for Cena's. 

In summation, no one wants to cut Orton slack because he's a well known asshole and he SHOULD have gone down as one of the best to ever do it, instead he's one of the biggest "What If?" Cases out there. Also, Cena has a track record of turning it up from time to time and making internet favorites like Punk, Daniel Bryan, Cesaro, etc look like a million bucks in their first big shot at "the champ". Bryan went from tearing it fucking DOWN with Cena at SS to having 3 straight "meh" matches with Orton. Punk went from having a series of underwhelming matches with Orton to delivering an all time classic with Cena. Cesaro had a decent, pretty good match with Orton on Smackdown then fucking KILLED it with Cena on Raw a week later. People subconsciously pick up on that stuff.

That's just my take on it I'd be interested to hear what other people think.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Choke2Death said:


> Don't know how anyone can say he's better than Orton atm. For some reason he gets a pass in this thread no matter how many shoddy performances yet Orton has one subpar match and gets crucified.


You'd have to be blind in both eyes and have severe brain damage to think Cena is better than Orton is at this point.

Having said that, I disagree with the poster above saying that Orton's peak is far ahead of Cena's. Seems a strange thing to say actually.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

RAVEN said:


> I liked his match with Rollins this Raw but I've noticed in that match and HIAC as well, he goes straight for his usual routine of shoulderblocks to Five knuckle shuffle and AA everytime he gets in offense. And both these matches were over 20 minutes. All he did was his routine and straight to either the AA or STF.
> 
> 
> He seems to be phoning it in since SS now tbh.


Glad it wasn't just me noticing this. Either he just doesn't give a fuck and knows he can just get away with doing just that, or erm....


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't know if Orton's peak is far ahead of Cena's, but I agree with all of what cjack said. It's weird to see Cena on the other side of this double standard. But what really made me notice how bothersome Cena's work is was when it's compared to The Rock. I just finished watching all of Rock's full-time run, and the man really was an excellent big time performer from 1999-2003. His 2000 in particular was as good as almost any wrestler on the planet that year. Rock's consistency in that period was also something to marvel at since he would pretty much always bring it on television as well. And although the general structure of a Rock match stays relatively the same, Rock would always add in his little unique bits of comedy into a match so that every match had something special about it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> In summation, no one wants to cut Orton slack because he's a well known asshole and *he SHOULD have gone down as one of the best to ever do it, instead he's one of the biggest "What If?" Cases out there.*


What if? What is there that he never did? Only thing he failed at is becoming some mega draw of Austin/Rock status, which is something none of us actually cares about, do we? Otherwise his career has been pretty damn solid and objectively, he is one of the greatest at this point. He's wrestled all the greats available to him and had quality matches with them on numerous occasions. Through the peaks and down periods, he's got himself a hell of a match catalog and I don't think there's much for us to look at and go "If only _____ happened".

He had average PPV matches with Bryan? Made up for it with those excellent Raw matches.
WM25 with Triple H was bad? They have some great LMS matches instead.

Only thing that I want to see at this point is that damn Brock match. It's pretty much all that's left for him to "accomplish" and instead they keep shoving Cena down our throats. Here's hoping they do the Cena match at TLC and make room for another challenger before Brock drops the belt at WM. That aside, Randy should tear the house down with Rollins in upcoming matches that they will obviously have.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> What if? What is there that he never did? Only thing he failed at is becoming some mega draw of Austin/Rock status, which is something none of us actually cares about, do we? Otherwise his career has been pretty damn solid and objectively, he is one of the greatest at this point. He's wrestled all the greats available to him and had quality matches with them on numerous occasions. Through the peaks and down periods, he's got himself a hell of a match catalog and I don't think there's much for us to look at and go "If only _____ happened".


I just mean if you look at how great Orton was from 2004-2006, you would have expected him to go down as an undisputed, top 10 all time great in the WWE. He accomplished a hell of a lot in both kayfabe and in reality, but I will always feel like he left something on the table when it comes to his overall career. You can't help but feel that way, he's the Dwight Howard of the WWE. All the physical ability in the world, definitely a great player, but could have been even better/all time great if he had a better head on his shoulders.




Choke2Death said:


> He had average PPV matches with Bryan? Made up for it with those excellent Raw matches.
> WM25 with Triple H was bad? They have some great LMS matches instead.


You're right, of course, and I almost included that in my post but I felt like I was rambling. Orton DID make up for his poor performances with Bryan with that absolutely KILLER Raw match in December and then again in February. It's just that by then people had already passed judgement on Orton for "mailing it in" with Bryan and instead of being happy they put on a great match it was more like "FINALLY Orton chooses not to suck". Same deal with Trips, although with THAT particular match, WM 25, I blame the writers more than I blame those two. They should have had a No DQ Street Fight with that epic build. There was too much heat there to just have a regular old wrestling match. Then again Punk and Jericho managed to pull it off at WM 28 so maybe Orton and Hunter should shoulder more blame. Regardless, by the time they had their great LMS on Raw people were already angry that those two stunk the joint out so badly after all that anticipation with the build. Right or wrong, the way Orton is judged is an interesting study in human psychology, why he is ALWAYS the first one to receive the brunt of criticism where other guys get passes in the exact same circumstances.

Goku-I consider Orton's best performances to be the 4/2/06 SD match vs Rey, the 1/16/06 SD match vs Benoit, and the Backlash 2004 match vs Foley. Watching those matches, it's impossible not to notice how much more gifted Orton is as a worker than Cena. Cena does not have the athletic grace that Orton does, Cena doesn't have the ability to bump like Orton does, and Cena doesn't sell like Orton does in those matches. I'm not even bashing Cena, I'm just saying Orton at his VERY best is better than Cena 10 times out of 10. Cena doesn't work heel, he's never had to control matches like Orton did when he was at his best back then. Of course this is just my opinion, I'm not saying I'm right feel free to disagree.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

To sum up, I'd say Orton sometimes is his own worst enemy. Probably one of the most gifted talents ever, and despite being so succesful, I always get the feeling that he kinda underachieved.

Cena has more flaws, but he's definitely an overachiever. I don't mean that in a bad way.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

RAVEN said:


> To sum up, I'd say Orton sometimes is his own worst enemy. Probably one of the most gifted talents ever, and despite being so succesful, I always get the feeling that he kinda underachieved.
> 
> Cena has more flaws, but he's definitely an overachiever. I don't mean that in a bad way.


Damn, I wasted all those words when you pretty much nailed it with two sentences. Orton underachieved when you consider the unreal amount of talent he has, Cena absolutely overachieved when you account for the god given talent he has. That's pretty much it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Owen Hart vs Davey Boy Smith (RAW 06.05.1995)*

'King Of The Ring' Qualifying Match'


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Cena at his best is better than Orton at his best IMO. Put together a list of both mens top 10/15/20 whatever matches and Cena wins hands down for me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If I were to put together a list of their top 30 matches or something, I'm fairly certain Orton would end up on top. He had far too much awesomeness from 04-06 with a bunch of other matches from 07-now that would give him a pretty good list.

Cena basically has 2 or 3 matches worth mentioning until like, 07 . And none of his years since then have been as good overall as what Orton did in 04-06.


----------



## WWE2014 (Jan 4, 2014)

Random Fun match. I liked it, even though UnderTaker begging off (of at-least looking scared) was kind of out-of-character and


Spoiler: spoiler



Big Show shouldn't have tapped out (at-least not as quick as he did), in my opinion


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

If I were ranking every wrestler I'd ever seen Cena might be 150 spots ahead of Orton.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

lol @ these segments with Mark Henry and Chyna on a date. :lmao The Sexual Chocolate gimmick is golden here. Too bad they have to go a bit too far and add Mae Young because there's no way in hell I'll actually watch those segments!

What the fuck is up with them being undecided on The Rock's theme? For the second time, I'm hearing him come out to some shitty song as his theme and it will be a week before they switch back to his classic song. Couldn't they have figured out by now that it's Mizark and D-Lo who should switch theme song instead of Rock?



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I just mean if you look at how great Orton was from 2004-2006, you would have expected him to go down as an undisputed, top 10 all time great in the WWE. He accomplished a hell of a lot in both kayfabe and in reality, but I will always feel like he left something on the table when it comes to his overall career. You can't help but feel that way, he's the Dwight Howard of the WWE. All the physical ability in the world, definitely a great player, but could have been even better/all time great if he had a better head on his shoulders.


Maybe but what else could he have achieved? In kayfabe, he's done everything. He's also got himself a hell of a match catalog as previously mentioned. Plus it ain't always up to him as he gets booked to feud with certain wrestlers. I think he's done pretty well with what he's given. Even during his "off days", he's still come through with some memorable stuff like the Christian series. His 2009-2010 period wasn't all that but he also was either working with Cena or Triple H repeatedly (and had some good matches there) or with someone green like Sheamus or Barrett and his Legacy lackeys.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That Henry/D'Lo/Chyna dynamic was really fun until THAT segment happened. I think you know what that segment is, but I'm warning you beforehand, C2D. I'm shocked that you're not a fan of Val Venis. I mean I thought he was just ok until he turned semi-heel in 99, but I thought you liked those absurd AE gimmicks. What do you think of guys like Godfather, The Brood, and New Age Outlaws? Those were the three acts in particular that kinda aged poorly when I rewatched it. The Brood in particular was really weird because Edge and Christian rule, but Gangrel is awful. Thank goodness they get better in 99. That series with the Hardyz was really fun. And the New Age Outlaws. Once you realize the pattern behind everything they do, the act is dead.

A similar thing is gonna happen to Triple H's theme. For weeks, he's gonna come out to awful rock music until My Time makes its way.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I love the Outlaws as a kid. Going back they aged really poorly.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't know what that segment is but I assume it's Mae Young related. I don't know why Vince had such a fascination for grossing out viewers with these stupid segments and angles involving an 80 year old woman.

I don't mind over the top gimmicks, but I don't care for Val's porn star character. Godfather does the "player" thing a hundred times better. The Brood are cool but right now they're not really doing much other than having random tag matches. Will be great once Edge and Christian break out as a tag team. The Outlaws are good too but mainly for their intro. Road Dogg is awesome on the mic.

And these Taker/Austin/Kane/Bearer segments leading up to their Buried Alive match are comedy gold. I guess it hurts them big time to watch now because I see them as corny and goofy whereas originally it was meant to be "scary". lol @ those weirdos in white chasing Kane to take him to a mental hospital. :lmao


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I don't know what that segment is but I assume it's Mae Young related. I don't know why Vince had such a fascination for grossing out viewers with these stupid segments and angles involving an 80 year old woman.
> 
> I don't mind over the top gimmicks, but I don't care for Val's porn star character. Godfather does the "player" thing a hundred times better. The Brood are cool but right now they're not really doing much other than having random tag matches. Will be great once Edge and Christian break out as a tag team. The Outlaws are good too but mainly for their intro. Road Dogg is awesome on the mic.
> 
> And these Taker/Austin/Kane/Bearer segments leading up to their Buried Alive match are comedy gold. I guess it hurts them big time to watch now because I see them as corny and goofy whereas originally it was meant to be "scary". lol @ those weirdos in white chasing Kane to take him to a mental hospital. :lmao


I forget who tells the story but the Mae Young hand segment was supposedly a rib at Brisco. Apparently Brisco had a weak stomach and Vince wanted to see if he could make him puke on TV. I wish I remember what shoot it was from. Makes you wonder about Vince's sanity. :lmao


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Brye said:


> I forget who tells the story but the Mae Young hand segment was supposedly a rib at Brisco. Apparently Brisco had a weak stomach and Vince wanted to see if he could make him puke on TV. I wish I remember what shoot it was from. Makes you wonder about Vince's sanity. :lmao


Get this news to Henry! :dance

Because according to Henry, he asked Vince "Why a hand?" and Vince just told him "Because it's a hand!"


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That's not the first time I'm hearing about Vince trying to prank Brisco. Immediately reminds me of the JR story from last year where he said Vince shit himself right before he walked down the ramp for a promo and then was chasing Brisco backstage with his "shitty underwear" trying to shove it up his face. Vince is one crazy son of a bitch. :lmao

But that's nothing new, because how often do you find a 60 year old man making other men kiss his bare ass on live television like he was doing in 2006? Between all of that and considering an incest angle with his daughter, I question his sanity. :lol

EDIT: Forget what I said about a week, The Rock's actual theme song is back by the end of the match with Al Snow. :lol


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Choke2Death said:


> EDIT: Forget what I said about a week, The Rock's actual theme song is back by the end of the match with Al Snow. :lol


That entrance music was trash didn't go with the way he walked or his mannerisms at all.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

You're talking about the weird Notorious BIG style theme C2D? It is weird. And strange that they switched to his normal theme when the match ended. Very random.






Don't worry about Mae Young. She doesn't come until like late late 99. Far far away, in fact it's not until Russo leaves.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah, that's the one. The instrumental itself is cool but holy fuck, talk about a complete mismatch. It's like Austin doing his trademark entrance to Undertaker's Deadman theme or vice versa. Who the hell genuinely thought this would be a good idea? Evident that they realized how stupid it was as it was played literally once and they went back to his normal theme by the end. Even Randy Orton and "This Fire Burns" lasted longer.

EDIT: Actually, it is so generic that I don't know if it's the one he uses in the Al Snow match or the one he had the week after Breakdown that he used for one week and was scrapped immediately after.

EDIT 2: Just checked his entrance again, and it is indeed the same one.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You guys still have not figured out what THAT segment is.

I love these satellite Smackdown 2003 episodes where they show the dark segments. There's one where Undertaker wishes some guy named Frank a happy birthday. :lmao seeing Brock shove cake into someone's face and acting like a normal human is too funny. On that same Smackdown, Eddie and Tajiri have another GOAT level match with WGTT. And then the week after, another awesome match happens between Rey and Matt Hardy. Ah, brings back memories of the peak of my wrestling fanhood. And now things are better because I can skip those Sable segments at my will.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What was that HBK/Shamrock match where Michaels is sucking on a lollipop. Was it the DX match? Sure he was move shouting loudly too.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

*Armageddon 2008
HSBC Center in Buffalo, New York*​

One of my favorite shows from the WWE in 2008, which was a pretty damn good year for pay per views in general. I truly feel that this is in the running for best show of that year. We have 2 great World Championship matches and a solid undercard in this one, so let's get this review started! First thing I wanna mention is, I miss the fact that WWE used to go all out with their set designs. I mean, the stage setup for this show looks awesome, like some type of medieval castle type thing. 



*ECW Champion Matt Hardy vs. Vladimir Kozlov*

So, before there was Rusev, there was Kozlov. Another failed attempt at WWE pushing a monster foreign heel. This was about a month before Matt Hardy turned heel, attacking his brother at the Rumble. Fans solidly behind Matt here, as he tries to stay one step ahead of Kozlov with his speed advantage. Hardy goes for a sunset flip and then a school boy roll up, both to no avail. Kozlov eventually takes control off a back suplex. Kozlov tosses Hardy into the steel ring post and begins to target his left shoulder. Hardy fights out of an extended rest hold with a jaw breaker, but is stopped in his tracks with a head butt from Kozlov. Kozlov gets a two count off of a DDT and goes back to the left arm, applying a key lock.Matt hangs Kozlov across the top rope before coming off the top with an axe handle smash. Kozlov eats ring post on the outside, before being tossed back in. Hardy with a Side Effect for a near fall. Kozlov blocks the Twist of Fate, and catches Hardy coming off the second rope with a clubbing clothesline. Hardy with a near fall off an inside cradle. Hardy's demise comes after getting dropped face first into the ring post. Kozlov finishes him off with a chokeslam/spine buster hybrid.

**3/4*: Not much to write home about here. Hardy was ECW Champ at the time, but the belt wasn't on the line here. So there was really nothing to get invested about to begin with. Not what I would have chosen to start the show off, that's for sure. After the stinker Kozlov put on with HHH the month before at Survivor Series, it was only a matter of time before Kozlov disappeared from the company. 


*Intercontinental Championship Tournament 
Final Round
Rey Mysterio vs. CM Punk*

One of my favorite matches of the year 2008 right here, as these guys absolutely tear it up. Of all the matches these two had together, I still think this is the best. Back when Rey could still go and CM Punk still had jet black hair. Mutual show of respect between the two with a hand shake to start. They work on the mat a bit to start, still in the feeling out process. Punk with a side headlock,followed by a series of shoulder blocks. Rey with a jacknife cover on Punk, who gets out. Rey catches Punk with a drop toe hold, looking for a 619, but Punk counters with an arm drag. GTS attempt is countered with an arm drag from Rey as well. Punk launches Rey out to the floor, right to the feet of William Regal. CM Punk with a plauncha onto Rey Mysterio on the floor. 











Nice, crisp tilt-a-whirl backbreaker gets CM Punk a 2 count. Great pin attempt by Punk with some body scissors. Rey tries some aerial offense, but Punk causes him to get hung up on the top rope. He recovers though, eventually hitting a moonsault for a 2 count. Punk comes back with a powerslam on Mysterio for a 2 count. They go to a rest hold as Punk applies an arm bar to Rey. Layla looking sexy as hell on the outside. Punk turns it into a cross face type submission, but Mysterio reaches the ropes. Mysterio comes off the ropes and it looks like he goes for flying head scissors but he turns it into an arm bar of his own. Punk is able to get the break. Mysterio with a springboard dropkick that sends Punk to the outside. Rey ascends to the top rope and flies to the outside with a dive to Punk. Seated senton back inside, followed with a springboard cross body gets Rey a 2 count. A couple of near falls off of pin fall counters by both men. Punk misses the high running knee in the corner, but launches Rey into the turnbuckle. Punk connects with the knee/running bulldog combo, but it only gets him a near fall. 

Punk almost gets caught with a 619 but he ducks out of the way. Punk lifts Rey for the GTS, but he counters out with a hurricanrana. Punk eats the 619 this time. He is able to avoid the springboard splash from Rey but almost gets caught with a surprise roll up for a near fall. Punk catches Rey in an Electric Chair type position, before transitioning him onto his shoulders. Punk delivers an absolutely nasty GTS that bloodies the nose of Rey. Punk gets the win in this awesome match.

******: I constantly fluctuate between 3 3/4 and 4 stars for this match. I really do love it and think if it had a few more minutes, it could have been a MOTY candidate. I enjoy this more than their entire 2010 series, with their Capitol Punishment match being my second favorite.

We get a shitty promo from Jeff Hardy and find out that Shawn Michaels is broke. Riiiiiiight.

*Belfast Brawl
Finlay vs. Mark Henry *

Henry dumps Finlay out of the ring quickly as the two men battle out on the floor. Henry sweeps Finlay's legs out from under him as he is on the apron. Back in the ring, Henry hits a big splash. Finlay starts to break out the weapons, consisting of a trash can and some kendo sticks. Tony Atlas tries to blindside Finlay with a trash can lid and gets kicked in the face. Henry blasts Finlay in the face with the trash can lid. With Finlay hung across the middle rope, Henry just jumps through the ropes, crashing down on him with all his weight. Finlay retaliates with a trash can to the face of Henry. He then goes to work with the kendo stick. 










Finlay with a big DDT on Henry. Finlay goes for the shillelagh shot but eats a boot. Henry snaps it right in half, before doing the same to a kendo stick. Hornswoggle comes out of nowhere, to the delight of the crowd, but gets knocked off the ring apron. Henry uses his body to press a trash can up against the face of Finlay. WSM goes out and grabs the steel ring steps. Finlay takes his knees out from under him, causing Henry to eat some steps. That little bastard Hornswoggle tosses Finlay another shillelagh and Finlay blasts Henry, which keeps him down for the count. 


****: Well, it was fun while it lasted. I can always get behind to guys beating the hell out of each other. Unfortunately, this match has nothing on the Belfast Brawl from Wrestlemania 24 between Finlay and JBL. Still, nice to mix things up with a hardcore type brawl.

*Batista vs. Randy Orton w/Legacy*

Orton had just returned from a collarbone injury the month prior, leading Team Orton to victory over Team Batista at Survivor Series. The two former Evolution cohorts collide here, with bragging rights on the line. Collar and elbow tie up, as they battle for an advantage. Orton with a side headlock into a drop toe hold. Batista takes Orton down with a shoulder block. Orton lues Batista in, before flinging him out to the floor. Cody Rhodes and Manu get tossed to the back early on, as they get caught trying to assault Batista. Orton, seemingly not phased, keeps on the attack. Orton sends Batista into the ring post shoulder first. That ring post is seeing a lot of action tonight. 

Dueling Batista and RKO chants at this point. Batista with a couple of big clotheslines to Orton and then a big powerslam. Batista going for the Batista Bomb but Orton drops out and counters with a nice neckbreaker. Orton eventually gets side stepped and tossed over the top rope to the outside. Randy looks like he may have landed on his shoulder. Orton catches Batista coming back in the ring with the rope assisted DDT. Orton only gets a two count out of that and goes to the "Orton stomp". We get our first "Vintage Orton" comment of the night. Remember when that was a thing? Orton with a headlock, giving a clearly gassed Batista a chance to rest. Batista eventually gets off the mat with Orton still hanging onto the headlock like a rabid dog. 

Batista eventually escapes the hold and delivers a sidewalk slam to Orton. They trade right hands to one another. Batista takes Randy to the outside with a clothesline. For some reason, Batista goes up to the top rope, allowing Orton to regain the momentum. Orton with a huge suplerplex, but only a near fall this time. A big spine buster gets Batista a 2 count of his own. Orton fights out of a Batista Bomb, goes for the RKO. Batista counters out and hits a Boss Man style side slam for 2. Orton blocks a spear with a kick to the face. Orton with the inverted backbreaker for another 2 count. Orton begins to prep for the RKO. Batista blocks it and drives Orton down with some kind of back suplex into side slam combo. Orton plants big Dave into the canvas with a DDT. Orton was thinking punt at this point, but Batista blocks it. Batista mounts Orton in the corner and starts reigning down on him with right hands. Orton tries to get out of it and has Batista in position for an Alabama slam type move. Batista holds onto the ropes to block, eventually falling into perfect position to deliver the Batista Bomb for the three count.

***** Not bad. Orton was poised for his massive heel run where he would dominate the McMahon family and reign as WWE Champion for much of 2009. I remember thinking the wrong man won here at the time and I still feel that way today. However it's a pretty meaningless win in retrospect, as Orton would go on to have the better year in 2009. At this point it was pretty hard to get anything decent out of Big Dave so a 3 star effort should be commended in this case. 

There is a *Santa's Little Helper* match with 8 of the divas in Christmas themed outfits. The faces in red and the heels wearing green. Not much to talk about wrestling wise, but damn they looked good. Won't go into rating it. Michelle McCool tags herself in and gets the win with the Styles Clash. Khali comes out and gets a kiss from Mae Young. Ugh. I do miss Mickie James though. 











*World Heavyweight Championship Match
Chris Jericho vs. John Cena (C)*

Cena had just returned at Survivor Series the month before in his home state. He took the title from Jericho at that event. This was his first defense of the title. They stare each other down in the middle of the ring before the bell. Jericho with a quick shoulder block to start.










Cena tackles Jericho, who rolls to the outside. Cena is in hot pursuit, but Jericho maintains the advantage back inside. Cena explodes out of the corner with a clothesline. Jericho dodges Cena and he collides with the corner. Jericho applies a sleeper hold. Cena tries his best to break the hold, driving Jericho into the turnbuckles. Cena powers up, looking for the AA. Cena counters out with a DDT. Awesome spot on the apron where Cena blocks Jericho's springboard dropkick, catching him in position for the AA. Jericho counters with a nasty bulldog that drives Cena's face into the steel ring steps! Love it. Jericho gets a two count back in the ring. Jericho uses the ring rope to choke John Cena. 

Cena eventually hulks up,hitting his 5 moves of doom, including the 5 Knuckle Shuffle. Jericho with a nice counter of the AA into the Walls of Jericho, which Cena counters. Belly to belly suplex from Cena gets a two count. Jericho with a pinpoint missile dropkick from the second rope, earning himself a near fall. Cena misses an offensive move, allowing Jericho to capitalize with the Lionsault. He makes the cover but Cena is able to shoot the shoulder up at 2. Jericho sets Cena up on the top rope. Cena fights out and sends Jericho down to the mat. Cena with the big leg drop from the top rope! Not enough to keep Y2J down and Cena is calling for the AA. Jericho lands on his feet and hits the Codebreaker for a near fall! Holy shit. Awesome sequence there. Cena hits the AA immediately after this, but is unable to get to the cover in time. Jericho playing dead comes through with an inside cradle, almost stealing the win. Cena goes for the STFU, but Jericho battles out and locks in the Walls!










Cena is able to turn over on his back and reverse the hold, before turning it into the STFU. Jericho taps! Cena retains.

****1/2*: I really liked this one. I remembered liking it a lot more than the Survivor Series match, which seemed to drag a lot. They got all of their big moves in here and mixed in some creative spots as well, and they executed everything to perfection. The match had the perfect amount of time and I think that was what killed their match the month before, it was too long. 

*WWE Championship
Triple Threat Match
Jeff Hardy vs. Triple H vs. Edge (C)*

Edge suddenly reappeared at Survivor Series, interjecting himself into the match between HHH and Kozlov. He left that show as WWE Champion, something no one saw coming. Another storyline heading into this one was that someone was targeting Jeff Hardy. He was "attacked" in a stairwell at a hotel in Boston the month prior and they were trying to figure out who assaulted him. The whole thing was stupid and insulting the fans intelligence. Anyway, this match was made. The crowd is supporting Jeff all the way here. 

Hardy on fire to start, taking down both Edge and HHH. He stacks them both up in the corner, flying in with the splash. He uses HHH to catapult into Edge with an old Hardy Boyz tandem move. HHH sent over the ropes and to the floor.Hardy tries to leap out onto him, but Edge pulls him down by the hair. Hardy eventually does launch himself over the top onto Edge, but then eats a clothesline from The Game. Back inside, Edge hammers HHH in the corner. Edge kicks him right in the face, gaining a 2 count. HHH with the running high knee to the Rated R Superstar. HHH with a neckbreaker to Edge. HHH with the facebuster and sets up for the Pedigree, but Hardy breaks up that attempt. 

The Game again with another face buster, this time to Hardy. He sets Edge up for the Pedigree once again. This time Hardy stops it with the Whisper in the Wind from the top rope. They do the obligatory triple threat corner spot, with a twist, as HHH holds Edge in the electric chair position, Hardy comes off with the Whisper in the Wind again. Hardy's limited move set really showing through here. I guess it was his charisma that got him this far. 

*Lol worthy "Paul, I Can't Feel My Legs!" sign spotted in the crowd. *

Hardy with a catapult on HHH into the corner. Hardy does that stupid dropkick in the corner where he gives himself whiplash in the process. Edge sneaks in like a thief in the night trying to steal the cover on HHH. After Edge is deposited to the outside, Jeff nails the Twist of Fate on Triple H. He hits the Swanton on HHH, but before he can get the pin, Edge pulls him outside. Edge drives Hardy into the ringside barricade. Hardy fights to his feet and sends Edge into the barrier in retaliation. Hardy starts to clear off one of the announce tables. HHH gets back involved, tossing Edge over the ECW announce table. It looks like HHH is going to Pedigree Hardy through the table, but Hardy blocks. Edge comes flying across the tables, HHH bails, and Hardy gets Speared from one table to another. Pretty cool spot there. 

Hardy plays dead while Edge and HHH fight it out back inside. Edge counters out of the Pedigree and delivers an Impaler DDT. Edge sets up for the spear, but HHH hits the spinebuster. HHH hits the Pedigree and goes for the cover, but that damn Commie Kozlov is out there and pulls him off the champion. He then pulls Hardy off the top turnbuckle as well. Edge winds up hitting the spear on HHH but he is able to get a shoulder up. Edge goes to retrieve some chairs and looks to execute a conchairto on The Game. Hardy stops him in the process and waffles Edge with one of the chairs. Hardy goes up top but he gets his leg pulled out from under him, straddling the top turnbuckle. HHH nails another Pedigree on Edge. He covers, but Hardy comes off the top with a Swanton onto Triple H. Hardy covers Edge and becomes the new WWE Champion!










****3/4*: Nice main event. Kind of sucked for Hardy to win the title on a B level show like Armageddon, but they couldn't keep teasing it forever. It was a good moment for him and his fans, even if we did need to hear J.R utter the phrase "Hardy Party". Good lord. 

Pretty good show here for the December PPV, which is usually trash. Sadly, they did away with this PPV in 2009 and introduced us to TLC. I have never liked the concept of gimmick pay per views and wish they would reintroduce Armageddon as the December show. At least the name makes sense. 

Regardless, Armageddon 2008 gets a solid *B+*. Worth a watch for sure!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Mmmm, Punk/Rey PPV ratings? Was their best match on SD too?


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Brock said:


> Mmmm, Punk/Rey PPV ratings? Was their best match on SD too?


Armageddon 2008: ****
Capitol Punishment: ***1/2 (About as good of a match as you can have with no story behind it.)
Extreme Rules 2010: ***1/4
Over The Limit 2010: ***
WrestleMania 26: **3/4 (I've seen people go as high as ***3/4 on this, which is ridiculous at 6 minutes.)


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

In honor of Halloween (I hate Halloween but this is a fun idea) what are some of your favorite Halloween Havoc matches?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Supercard of Honor IV (4/3/09)
GHC Jr. Heavyweight Title
KENTA vs. Davey Richards*

*****1/2*​

First time watching and i was blown away, fucking loved every damn minute of it. I may even go higher on the rating when i watch it again.  Thanks to funnyfaces for the rec.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> In honor of Halloween (I hate Halloween but this is a fun idea) what are some of your favorite Halloween Havoc matches?


Eddie/Rey HH 1997
Goldberg/DDP HH 1998
Cactus Jack/Vader HH 1993


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> In honor of Halloween (I hate Halloween but this is a fun idea) what are some of your favorite Halloween Havoc matches?


Mysterio/Eddie obviously set a new bar/laid a new structure for future American junior/cruiserweight matches (Japanese juniorweight match structure was years ahead of us and seems to always have been). I'm in the camp giving that match the full five. Other than that, Vader/Cactus, Pillman/Luger, DDP/Gberg and Austin/Dustin would round out my top five. As for Austin/Dustin's inclusion, it is a very good match on itself, but where the match really pops is Jr's commentary. One hell of a job.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Mysterio/Guerrero from 1997 as the OBVIOUS choice for #1, then followed by Cactus/Vader, Goldberg/DDP, Pillman/Luger and, if it holds up as well as I remembered, Savage/DDP.

As for Punkster/Rey-Rey ratings:
Armageddon: ***3/4
WM 26: ***1/4
Extreme Rules: ***1/2
Over The Limit: ***3/4
Capitol Punishment: ****

Those two had a shitload of chemistry together.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Oh my God! 










:bow


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Oh my God! 










:bow


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

Sin cara vs Tyson kidd Superstars of this weekend

great match from both men.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Since the Ambrose-Rollins feud is done(for now anyway) what are your final ratings for there 3 matches? All 3 are ****1/4 for me.

1 FCA
2 HIAC
3 Summerslam

If HIAC had the correct ending and 10 more minutes inside the cell it would have easily been a top 5 cell match IMO.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Ambrose vs Cesaro Trick or Street Fight from this SD was good silly fun.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Ryan193 said:


> Since the Ambrose-Rollins feud is done(for now anyway) what are your final ratings for there 3 matches? All 3 are ****1/4 for me.
> 
> 1 FCA
> 2 HIAC
> ...


Summerslam - ****1/4
Raw - ****1/4
Hell in a Cell - ***3/4 - ****

The ending and match time ruined the HIAC match for me.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Dean vs Seth non-FCW STARZ:

SummerSlam: ***3/4
Falls Count Anywhere: ****1/4
Hell In A Cell: ***1/2

SS to ***3/4 long time ago (cause 1/4* RATING ADJUSTEMENTS 8*D) thanks to its final all-out brawl between the lumberjacks being unneccessary and silly; otherwise I'd go **** for it easily. FCA was about as awesome as it had any right to be. HIAC was one of the missed opportunities of the century quite honestly, but the match was still very good regardless.


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

Dean vs Seth
SS: ***1/4
RAW: ****1/4
HiaC: *1/2

HiaC: bump in the beginning was idiotic. having them on stretchers and no action for 4 minutes was bad. the announcing was awful. the crowd wasn't into it except for the few seconds before each spot. the ending was terrible. the middle parts weren't good either.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Ambrose/Rollins needed a simple 1vs1 match on PPV, imo, but I'm sure we will get that sometimes in the future.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Mysterio/Guerrero from 1997 as the OBVIOUS choice for #1, then followed by Cactus/Vader, Goldberg/DDP, Pillman/Luger and, if it holds up as well as I remembered, Savage/DDP.
> 
> As for Punkster/Rey-Rey ratings:
> Armageddon: ***3/4
> ...


Thanks. Still havn't seen any of their matches.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Now that they have removed the 6 month commitment and offer a month for free, I just signed up for the WWE Network. And the videos finally work unlike the free trial when it launched initially. Only issue is the videos are initially slow mo in full screen if I skip forward to a certain point and not being able to access Benoit matches instantly is a bit of a pain in the ass.

Wish they had more Raw and SD episodes but there's plenty already to enjoy. Just watched Rock vs X-Pac from Capital Carnage since it's the only match that interested me before I'll move on to the final month of 1998. Decent match even if it's nothing great.

For the experts in here, recommend me some great WCW classics. I will use these two months to check out some of em!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Now that they have removed the 6 month commitment and offer a month for free, I just signed up for the WWE Network. And the videos finally work unlike the free trial when it launched initially. Only issue is the videos are initially slow mo in full screen if I skip forward to a certain point and not being able to access Benoit matches instantly is a bit of a pain in the ass.
> 
> Wish they had more Raw and SD episodes but there's plenty already to enjoy. Just watched Rock vs X-Pac from Capital Carnage since it's the only match that interested me before I'll move on to the final month of 1998. Decent match even if it's nothing great.
> 
> For the experts in here, recommend me some great WCW classics. I will use these two months to check out some of em!


Copy + Pasted from my Best of Crockett/WCW list:

Pillman vs Liger SuperBrawl II ****1/2
Vader vs Sting Strap Match SuperBrawl III ****1/2
Ric Flair vs Vader Starrcade 1993 ****3/4
Tully Blanchard vs Magnum TA I Quit Cage Match Starrcade 1985 *****
Roddy Piper vs Greg Valentine Dog Collar Match Starrcade 1983 *****
Windham/Pillman vs Steamboat/Douglas Starrcade 1992 ****1/2
Terry Funk vs Ric Flair Great American Bash 1989 *****
Southern Boys vs Midnight Express Great American Bash 1990 ****3/4
Midnight Express vs Rock n Roll Express WrestleWar 1990 ****1/4
Dr. Death/Terry Gordy vs Steiner Bros Clash of the Champions 19 ****3/4
Hollywood Blondes vs Ric Flair/Arn Anderson Clash of the Champions ****1/2
Vader vs The Boss Spring Stampede 1994 ****1/4
Cactus Jack/Kevin Sullivan vs Nasty Boys Street Fight Slamboree 1994 ****1/4
Cactus Jack/Maxx Payne vs Nasty Boys Street Fight Spring Stampede 1994 ****1/4
Cactus Jack vs Vader No DQ Halloween Havoc 1993 ****1/4
Ricky Steamboat vs Lord Steven Regal Fall Brawl 1993 ****1/2
Cactus Jack vs Sting Falls Count Anywhere Beach Blast 1992 ****1/2
Ricky Steamboat vs Rick Rude 30 Minute Ironman Beach Blast 1992 *****
Lord Steven Regal vs Belfast Bruiser Fit Finlay Uncensored 1996 *****
Rey Misterio vs Psicosis Bash at the Beach 1996 ****1/2

That should get you started. I left out a lot of the more obvious ones like Eddy/Rey and Flair/Steamboat that I'm sure you've already seen multiple times


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

To celebrate All Hallow's Eve, I thought I'd watch Hogan Vs. Warrior II again.

I hadn't seen it in a long time and wanted to be reminded of how bad it was. Just imagine Wrestlemania VI, but with everything being done on the fly instead of the weeks of practice in advance, Warrior working with a torn bicep, too much stalling from Hogan, run-ins, a fucked up fireball spot (Hogan didn't light the flash paper correctly in time), and the biggest difference: a dead crowd!

Aside from a "Warrior sucks!" and a "Hogan sucks!" chant, the Las Vegas crowd couldn't care less from the get go until The Giant came out and then again when Hogan's belt came off to be used as a weapon. Hogan and Warrior even re-did some of the same spots from their previous match: the test of strength, the trading bodyslams, the ref getting knocked with both men pinning each other. The fans popped once the 3 count was made. Not sure if they were pro-Hogan, just glad the match was over, or both.

Its a real shame because the build-up for the Ultimate Challenge II was really good. It goes to show you how the audience can make or break a match. If it was the same exact match, but with a hot crowd, Hogan and Warrior could've gotten away with it, but with crickets almost being heard, it was hard to invest into it even from the opening bell and the main reason why its remembered so badly.

- Vic


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Vic Capri said:


> To celebrate All Hallow's Eve, I thought I'd watch Hogan Vs. Warrior II again.
> 
> I hadn't seen it in a long time and wanted to be reminded of how bad it was. Just imagine Wrestlemania VI, but with everything being done on the fly instead of the weeks of practice in advance, Warrior working with a torn bicep, too much stalling from Hogan, run-ins, a fucked up fireball spot (Hogan didn't light the flash paper correctly in time), and the biggest difference: a dead crowd!
> 
> ...


The crowd shit on both guys? I've been lucky enough to avoid this match my whole life, but I might just have to watch it now. Roflllll.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

Pretty much, but the hate was louder for Warrior and the crowd popped for Hogan when he won so I'm going to say the crowd was more anti-Warrior. It's a bizarre match to watch.

- Vic


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Bryan Danielson vs Shingo (DGUSA Enter The Dragon-First Anniversay Celebration 2010)*

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/puro-...niversay-celebration-2010-a.html#post41414570​


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

^ It's been far too long since I've seen that.

:moyes1

Come to think of it, I've only ever seen two SHINGO singles matches and they're two of my favourite of all time. That's probably a hint that I should seek out more :hmm:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I still havn't watched it myself yet lol, just someone asked me about it. 

Next on my watch list are Benoit/Angle (Royal Rumble 2003) and Tyler Black vs Davey Richards (Death Before Dishonor VIII).


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Match listing has been revealed for the *True Giants* dvd. If you ask me, it looks like a fucking joke. There's STILL repeats and I think some of this stuff is even on the Network. Disc 3 at least has a couple gems on it.



> Main Feature:
> •Larger than Life Athletes
> •Big Show
> •Gorilla Monsoon
> ...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh god that set looks awful aside of like, 4 matches.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What was the _Bryan/Mysterio Raw 26.11.2012_ match like? Really wish they could have had a PPV match.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

WCW Souled Out 1998

*Juventud Guerrera, Super Calo, Lizmark Jr., and Chavo Guerrero vs. La Parka, El Dandy, Silver King, and Psychosis *

I loved these matches as a kid and they’re still fun to watch. You get a lot of quick tags and guys going in and out of the match very quickly. The formula was pretty simple; two guys would be in the ring and they would go for the big moves to score a pin. And they hit big moves a lot but someone would always break it up. The climax of the match was the signature moment where everyone would hit their dives to the floor. Just as fun as I remember them being as a kid. Not sure about it being the opener as it seems like the perfect change of pace match on a card but I can’t complain about a fun match as the opener.
***¾ * 


_Raven’s Rules:_
*Chris Benoit vs. Raven*

I liked it but I didn’t love it. Both did a great job of showing that there was a lot of heat between them and I really liked that. Raven started the match in control of the match and his offense looked great. Lot’s of intensity from Benoit as well once he took control. My problem with the match though was that someone was always in control. I really wanted to see them just go to war. I felt like they were trying to really hurt each other but they never were trying to hurt each other at the same time. That being said both Benoit and Raven were really good and they delivered a hard hitting and enjoyable match. 
**** *

_Cruiserweight Championship Match:_
*Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio Jr.(c)*.

Jericho coming out with his WWE music dubbed in was pretty funny. Anyway they had a really good match, it just seems like the chemistry between these two is always there. Early in the match Rey appears to injure his leg and ends up doing an amazing job selling it. At first he tries to keep things on the ground but it doesn’t work so he has to alter his style later on and go for his high flying stuff anyway. Everytime he would spring off the ropes you would see him sell his leg. Jericho didn’t go after just the leg but he worked smartly. There was a good deal of offense on the leg but he hit enough of other power moves that made his control segments really good. Rey obviously does a great job as the underdog and the ending was pretty amazing as well. Good stuff, wish it was longer.
****¼ *
OK just did a google search and I’m pretty sure Rey was actually injured, which explains why it was short and Jericho didn’t go after the leg too much. Impressive job from Rey.



_Television Championship Match:_
*Booker T(c) vs. Rick Martell *

Way better than I was expecting. Things started off a little slow as Booker was working a lot of arm work and Martell wasn’t all that great either. Then it took a huge turn for the better when Booker mistakenly hit Martell near or below the belt. Once that happened Martell was pissed and he showed a mean streak that we hadn’t seen before. He was a lot more aggressive and targeted the back to set up for his Boston Crab finisher. Good control segment that led to a comeback from Booker T that I also enjoyed. Really impressive how the reaction to 1 little thing can make a boring match a compelling match. 
***

*Scott Hall w/Louie Spicolli vs. Larry Zbyszko w/Dusty Rhodes* 

They actually worked a match for a few minutes and had a pretty good dynamic. You had the crafty vet trying to take Hall to the mat which was fun to see. The crowd was red hot because there was a pretty close split between both guys. Some fun veteran tactics and he fired up pretty well when he needed to. Hall was great as he would go from cocky to pissed very quickly which was pretty great. The ending is everything that was wrong with WCW. Dusty hadn’t really been doing much other than commentating and when he stepped into the ring and started firing elbows the crowd ate it up. Then he immediately turned heel. No reason for it all. Fun enough match though.
**1/2 *


*Buff Bagwell, Scott Norton, and Konan w/Vincent vs. The Steiner Brothers and Ray Traylor w/Ted Dibiase* 

Not much to the match as it was all about building up Scott Steiner’s heel turn. Steiner just sort of acted like an ass on the the ring apron and annoyed everyone on his team. But he still wanted to get in the ring really bad and kick some ass. Steiner eventually gets in but he only hit a couple of moves before the match ended. So they build up Scott Steiner getting into the match the whole name and then he does almost nothing. 
**¼* 


*Kevin Nash w/Hulk Hogan and Eric Bischoff vs. The Giant*

Pretty cool big man match. For me the best part of it was that you got to see these guys do things that they would normally never do against anyone else. Both were huge so they ended wrestling a match like two regular sized guys would. Nash diving over the top rope to the floor and the Giant catching him was pretty awesome. As was the powerbomb that ended the match that really should have killed the Giant (I think Brian Pillman would ever say it was a brutal powerbomb). When you have two big guys meet they sometimes have these slow plodding matches and that certainly isn’t the case here. I’m pretty sure I’m a bigger Nash fan than most so I expect my rating could be a little higher than most.
*****


*Ric Flair vs. Bret Hart*

I have no idea what the general consensus on this match is but I really liked it. It was worked very slowly which can be off putting for a lot of people I guess but it didn’t bother me at all. They started their mat exchanges right off the bat and Bret was coming out on top almost every time. You had a fun moment where Bret locked Flair in the Figure Four early on and Flair’s reaction to it (along with everything in the beginning) was pretty fantastic. This was billed as the match that would determine who would be considered the best ever While the commentators trying to make this sound like the greatest match ever did get annoying after a while I do have to admit that they helped with the story to the match. So we get a lot of straight mat wrestling for a while and then naturally Flair ends up cheating to get the upperhand. 

Flair takes control of the match and uses a lot of dirty tricks to keep that advantage. When he goes for the Figure Four he sets up for it with a few moves to legs (including a chop block that legitimately looked like it tore Hart’s achilles). Another thing that I really liked was that Hart would reverse any move that Flair went for a second time, really enforced the idea that both guys were really really good. Flair throwing a lot of chops was also pretty awesome because I know that Hart hates chops and seeing him get pissed off from chops, which actually fueled his big comeback was a nice touch. Hart set up his finisher with some moves against Flair’s back and even did a superplex that looked like it could have ended badly but didn’t at all. Kind of hard to believe that a match like this took place in 1998 in WCW or WWE. It had a really old school feel, didn’t have a screwy finish, and got plenty of time. 
****3/4* 


*“Macho Man” Randy Savage w/Elizabeth vs. Lex Luger*

No idea why this was the main event and no idea why the main event lasted 7 minutes. Savage goads Luger outside and uses Liz as a distraction to take control early on. The match was mostly focused around Liz getting involved in the match a lot, something she traditionally never did. It was cool to see her acting like a real heel for the first time but other than that there isn’t much appeal here. Luger makes his comeback while they are brawling in the crowd and quickly wins with the Torture Rack. Look if this main evented Nitro or something I wouldn’t complain but this isn’t a PPV main event. 
**¾ *​

Pretty good show actually. Lot’s of really solid matches that made it easy to sit through. It also looked like WCW was taking things in the right direction here as there was dissention in the NWO and they seemed destined to implode. We all know how that went though.


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

Choke2Death said:


> Now that they have removed the 6 month commitment and offer a month for free, I just signed up for the WWE Network. And the videos finally work unlike the free trial when it launched initially. Only issue is the videos are initially slow mo in full screen if I skip forward to a certain point and not being able to access Benoit matches instantly is a bit of a pain in the ass.
> 
> Wish they had more Raw and SD episodes but there's plenty already to enjoy. Just watched Rock vs X-Pac from Capital Carnage since it's the only match that interested me before I'll move on to the final month of 1998. Decent match even if it's nothing great.
> 
> For the experts in here, recommend me some great WCW classics. I will use these two months to check out some of em!


Yo, been meaning to ask you what your thoughts are on the match Bret had with Benoit in WCW as an Owen tribute.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It's worth watching. Seen it twice, first I thought it's a classic, second time only "very good".

On another note, just rewatched Cena vs Jericho from Survivor Series. They got a good story going on with the neck injury, but it doesn't quite hold up as first time because Jericho's offense was kinda dull in the middle portion of the match and finish was kinda weak and rushed. Somewhere between ☆☆☆¼-½ is what I'd rate. Their SummerSlam match also went down a couple of months ago to being in a similar zone ratings-wise.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Random as can be, but I viewed the Regal/Gberg infamous match, and alongside listening to the two with their sides to the stories, I have to completely go with Regal. Regal's offense just looked snug as opposed to "taking liberties", and hell let's face it someone with Regal's physique and style going up against Goldberg in effort of telling the story should be laying it in tight. This rings even more true when you have to have a match that is the first match of length a green, awkward wrestler possessing bullish strength has performed. It did look at least to me as if Gberg was a bit hesitant at times. I'm just saying there is a fine line between snug and overly stiff, and I didn't think those European uppercuts were that hard though I have no idea if those eyepokes connected. In the end, I actually found it a positive to the Gberg character, as it gave it a different layer or "tool for the toolbox" if you will. Even if I am completely off base since I've never been in the ring, Goldberg as a worker sure did lay his stuff in hard despite his immense strength and the guy is a former nfl lineman at near 300 pounds. Come on now. By my eye, worse "fault" Regal had was some blatantly poor selling at times. 

It'd be interesting to see Goldberg and his response to if he wrestled Kawada or Hansen that is for sure.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Goldberg and Kawada were supposed to have a match in 2004, but it got cancelled. But that Regal/Goldberg match was terrible. Don't even care who was responsible for what. Both guys are at fault for having a shit match.

There is a Benoit/Eddie match on the 8/7/03 edition of Smackdown that deserves a mention. Really fun match that took place in Canada. Same night as that really good Cena/Taker Vengeance rematch and the Lesnar heel turn.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Brock said:


> What was the _Bryan/Mysterio Raw 26.11.2012_ match like? Really wish they could have had a PPV match.


It was rather short if I'm not wrong, but still entertaining. Bryan worked the default heel since it was against Rey Rey, though he was a clear babyface by that point, so his position in that match was a bit weird, though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

More Bryan Danielson: ROH Championship run ratings:

Bryan Danielson vs Xavier - Unscripted II ****1/4*
Bryan Danielson w/ CM Punk vs Jimmy Rave & Adam Pearce - Unscripted II ****3/4*
Bryan Danielson vs Jimmy Rave - 4th Anniversary Show ******
Bryan Danielson vs Alex Shelley - Arena Warfare *****1/4*

Really loved that Shelley match. Ironic now, but i did love Bryan's line to Punk at the end of that tag match (Punk had of course signed with WWE, and came back just for this one off) "If you ever get tired of the Entertainment business and want to return to wrestling".


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)




----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan (WWE Over The Limit 2012)*






Do people still consider this at the ****3/4-***** range? Because it's a damn near perfect fucking match. There is one point where Punk looks like going for the 'Surfboard' on Bryan, but ends up stomping on Bryan's back, and Booker T says "I don't even know what to call this", Fucking wrestling is what it is.

And i love the part where Punk has Bryan in the figure four, and Bryan gets to the ropes, and the ref counts to 4, Punk breaks the hold, then goes "I have 'till 5", with a smile on his face (as this is what Bryan used to say back in ROH). 'Cattle Mutilation' would have been nice, but you can't have everything lol. forgot about the finish too, which was good to keep the story going.

Fucking glorious from start to finish, and one of the best matches in the company's history.

i need to watch MITB next, i wasn't as high on that last time i watched it, think it may have been because of the AJ stuff TBH.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Haven't seen that match since near when it aired, had it around ****1/4, certainly didnt have it as a contender for best match in company history, will watch it tonight and see how it holds up.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Brock said:


> *CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan (WWE Over The Limit 2012)*
> 
> Do people still consider this at the ****3/4-***** range? Because it's a damn near perfect fucking match. There is one point where Punk looks like going for the 'Surfboard' on Bryan, but ends up stomping on Bryan's back, and Booker T says "I don't even know what to call this", Fucking wrestling is what it is.
> 
> ...


Still fucking love this match. It's like nothing we've seen before in the WWE. Evidence of that would be how guys like C2D and cjack mistook specific moments in this match as botches when they were really just well-designed moves. This match really felt like a homage to the mid-2000s indie wrestling style that was most identified by these two guys. Throughout this match, you'll see those moments that call back to ROH, such as the Nigel top rope lariat, the curb stomp, "I have til 5", and the recreation of the Pillman/Liger slap exchange that we saw quite a bit from indie wrestling.

Although Bryan did not get the win here, this match really did put him over. After losing in 18 seconds and getting his ass kicked by Sheamus, Bryan could have easily gone down to Cesaro territory, but this feud allowed him to look great. Even during Bryan's WHC reign where he would get his ass kicked by everyone on Smackdown, Punk would always take liberty into making Bryan look like his equal. The mere fact that Punk was willing to tap out to Bryan and later on in a promo, give Bryan his props for making him tap, shows just how much this match was more than just a filler title bout.

One other point worth emphasizing about this match was how these guys were able to wrestle such a good match without having to resort to finishers. CM Punk attempted the GTS a couple times, but he never connected which later on played into their MITB match. Bryan's Yes Lock was the only finisher that connected, and the finish of the match (which I love) was based on that move, but not in a way that you expected. These two were able to create nearfalls that were just as dramatic (if not more) than the typical finisher trading you would see in a WWE-style main event match. Take notes John Cena, this is how you wrestle a quality title match.

And this is all without mentioning Punk selling his ribs really well after Kane crushed them on the Smackdown before this match. Or Punk targeting Bryan's knee after Bryan took a bad spill during the match. Or Bryan taking off the knee pad to kill Punk towards the end of the match. Or that sick looking surfboard dragon sleeper. Zep, not only should you watch the MITB match, but you should also check out their Smackdown match that year. Lots of innovative stuff in that match, but it doesn't get its due because of the Teddy/Johnny stuff.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Smackdown 21.02.2012 - Was that the date of the SD match?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Indeed it was. Also worth looking into their three RAW singles matches, the two Punk/Kane/Bryan triple threats (especially the RAW one where Bryan wins cleanly), and any time they were opposite of each other in a tag match. These two would even make mixed tag matches fun.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wait, Phillip/Danielson/Yankem had TWO Triple Threats? I only recall the fun one at No Way Out, never remembered two of them. :hmm:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Neither did i, found it here though:






I do remember rather liking the NWO one TBH.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk and Kane also had a pretty good series of matches around this time. First one was on the Smackdown before OTL, second one was a really good WWE title match on Smackdown that is one of Kane's best matches. Third one was on RAW. Then there was a fourth one on the same night as that Bryan/Mysterio match.

Yup. Punk in 2012. Man do I miss him unk3


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching that OTL made me miss Bryan/Punk even more when thinking about it.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Bryan/Punk had some damn good to great matches with each other in 2012. I loved their OTL match and to me, it was MOTY. I think their MITB match wasn't well received, but I liked that match a lot. Bryan and Punk had great chemistry together and it was awesome how at the start of the year, they were holding two of the top titles in the WWE (Y)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Don't wanna be modest, but I think I might be the "universal reactions" guy here - and I can tell you Punk/Bryan MITB was recieved awesomely by all sides, dude. There are even quite a few people who liked it better than the OTL match. I can't say I'm one of those, but I'd easily go ****1/4 for that baby.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Ahh I see. For some reason I recalled not a lot of people liking that match, mostly because of AJ's involvement in the storyline and the match, but I thought she did a pretty good job and helped enhanced the match. It's still not better than their OTL match. Punk applying the Figure Four to Bryan and both of them slapping the shit out of each other while in the hold :mark:


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm never gonna have as much love for Punk/Bryan OTL like most people. It's a great match but nowhere near MOTY, top 10 in WWE or GOAT or anything like that.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punk/Bryan OTL was definitely my MOTY for 2012 and will probably end up being one of my favourite matches. Their MITB? Meh. I wasn't bothered by the AJ story going into it, as I am a fan of AJ, however I felt they used her wrong in the actual match. The whole match, AJ and the 2 guys, was just put together wrong imo. I would have done it differently.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I know this is often regarded as their best match, outside of WWE:

*CM Punk vs Bryan Danielson (03.26.2005) (FIP Bring The Pain)*
http://rutube.ru/video/050fa36821758ed5b3d780e659441dc2/

Need to watch it soon.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Still fucking love this match. It's like nothing we've seen before in the WWE. Evidence of that would be how guys like C2D and cjack mistook specific moments in this match as botches when they were really just well-designed moves. This match really felt like a homage to the mid-2000s indie wrestling style that was most identified by these two guys. Throughout this match, you'll see those moments that call back to ROH, such as the Nigel top rope lariat, the curb stomp, "I have til 5", and the recreation of the Pillman/Liger slap exchange that we saw quite a bit from indie wrestling.
> 
> Although Bryan did not get the win here, this match really did put him over. After losing in 18 seconds and getting his ass kicked by Sheamus, Bryan could have easily gone down to Cesaro territory, but this feud allowed him to look great. Even during Bryan's WHC reign where he would get his ass kicked by everyone on Smackdown, Punk would always take liberty into making Bryan look like his equal. The mere fact that Punk was willing to tap out to Bryan and later on in a promo, give Bryan his props for making him tap, shows just how much this match was more than just a filler title bout.
> 
> ...


You got the wrong guy amigo, the first time I watched that match I was a member of this thread and I came in here positively RAVING about how awesome it was. I even got into a spirited debate with Cody when I dubbed it my Match of the Year for 2012 and Cody insisted the MitB match was better. Off the top of my head I can't think of a single thing in that match that I would consider a "botch". I have it at ****3/4, it's one of my personal favorite matches to watch, I've seen it probably 5 times the past year.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*IYH Rock Bottom:*

Owen Hart vs Steve Blackman - ★★★¼
Goldust vs Jeff Jarrett - ★★½ (Kinda fun and the post-match stuff is lol-worthy)
The Rock vs Mankind - ★★★½ (These two just know how to have a fun match)
Stone Cold vs Undertaker - ★½

Wanted to watch every match but I cba, specially after seeing The Oddities.

lol'd at the backstage segment with Vince coming out of Mankind's "office" because right before they cut to the arena, you can actually see Foley and Rock on the hallway of the backstage area as Vince walks away from the room. This is the original Cena/Wyatts discussing their match in the background of midget commentator. :lol

Main event was dull as fuck which is not a surprise but still not as boring as I imagined. Certainly better than Cold Day in Hell for example. I remember watching the last 4-5 minutes a few years ago but don't remember the finish with the bulldozer being _so_ underwhelmingly lackluster.

Only three Raw shows left. 1999 here I come!


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Yeah still ****1/4. Really, really good match but not an all time classic. Wouldn't have it in either man's top 5 in WWE or top 5 for 2012.

Thoughts on the fatal 4 way from that show? I love it, one of the best. ***3/4.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The 4 way was kinda trash imo. Hate most non tag multiman matches WWE do these days. Mostly a load of nothing with the last 10 minutes or so of everyone hitting finishers on each other.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

I'd agree with that for the most part but it worked here IMO. Not really a surprise when you look at who's in the match.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Can't go wrong with CM Punk versus Daniel Bryan. You've got one excellent ring worker in Punk up against an even better worker in Daniel Bryan. Especially 2012 Bryan who could be pretty damn intense in the ring.






This is 2011 but nonetheless awesome on so many levels.

I still adore Bryan's in ring work and wish he would start doing things like that again. I may not be paying enough attention and missing him still doing things like that on the regular - who knows.

And I really do wonder how his in ring work will be affected by his injury once/if he returns.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Superkick said:


> Can't go wrong with CM Punk versus Daniel Bryan. You've got one excellent ring worker in Punk up against an even better worker in Daniel Bryan. Especially 2012 Bryan who could be pretty damn intense in the ring.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's pretty reminiscent to his "YOU'RE GONNA GET YOUR FUCKING HEAD KICKED IN" days :banderas I would love to see him do that once he gets back.

As for his in ring work being affected by his injury if he comes back, I have faith that Daniel Bryan could make it work.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Whats everyones top 10 for 2014 so far? 

1. Shield vs Wyatt family EC *****

2. Cesaro vs Sammi Zayn NXT Arival ****3/4

3. Seth Rollins vs Dean Ambrose RAW STREET FIGHT. ****1/2

4. Daniel Bryan vs Bray Wyatt RR ****1/2

5. Daniel Bryan vs HHH WM 30 ****1/2

6. Cesaro vs John Cena RAW FEB ****1/2

7. Sheamus vs Cesaro NOC ****1/4

8. Randy Orton vs Dolph Ziggler RAW ****1/4

9. Shield vs Evolution ER ****1/4

10. Daniel Bryan vs Kane ER ****1/4


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ladies and gentlemen, I just witnessed Eddie Guerrero pull off an all-time great carryjob. And this isn't just me saying it for shock value like I normally do. On the 11/6/2003 edition of Smackdown, Eddie had a really fun handicap match against the freaking Basham Brothers.

That fatal fourway match that the Bryan video posted up there came from is great.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

As should be expected from a fatal fourway match involving Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, Cody Rhodes, and Zack Ryder, given 10 or so minutes.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

^ Cole's heel commentary was WOAT, especially during Daniel Bryan matches. That's the reason why I can't bring myself to watch some of Bryan's matches from 2010-2012, Cole's commentary was fucking abysmal. Bryan had some damn good matches too. It's a stupid reason to not watch some of his matches but Cole made it really unbearable. Thank God he dropped that "nerd/vegan" schtick.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Cole was just abysmal in general back then - not to say he's improved by a ton. Last time I remember appreciating his commentary to an extent would be the main event of WrestleMania XXX. Not sure whether to blame Cole, Vince/HHH, or both, but the Three Stooges on commentary have been horrendous for a long while. I mean damn. That Ziggler/Miz match from NOC was a trainwreck - the commentary team along with the shitty guests completely no selling the match. Idiots backstage.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I kinda like that Tom Phillips dude on Smackdown now, but that might be because he's not the other three clowns. Scott Stanford has the natural commentary voice, but he doesn't have the wrestling knowledge to supplement it. He's still not a bad commentator though. Lord Tensai has been wonderful in NXT as has the rest of the NXT crew minus Renee. I really want Matt Striker back, but for reasons unknown, people in this thread hate him.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

This just reminded me to ask, why was Cole put in JR's place in late 98-early 99? Hearing the commentary for _Rock Bottom_ was like hearing the shit we've had in the PG Era during the Attitude Era. Worst part is Cole called the Royal Rumble in JR's place and as shown on Beyond the Mat, JR was not even busy with other stuff, instead they put him there backstage to feed them lines. Just stupid of them to remove the best commentator for no good reason whatsoever.

Among the matches cjack recommended, I just watched Mysterio vs Psicosis from Bash at the Beach and it was fun stuff.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

funnyfaces - Do you follow the current indy scene?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> This just reminded me to ask, why was Cole put in JR's place in late 98-early 99? Hearing the commentary for _Rock Bottom_ was like hearing the shit we've had in the PG Era during the Attitude Era. Worst part is Cole called the Royal Rumble in JR's place and as shown on Beyond the Mat, JR was not even busy with other stuff, instead they put him there backstage to feed them lines. Just stupid of them to remove the best commentator for no good reason whatsoever.
> 
> Among the matches cjack recommended, I just watched Mysterio vs Psicosis from Bash at the Beach and it was fun stuff.


Jim Ross suffered a Bells Palsy attack as well as the death of his mother around that time. Unfortunately, that is why we were punished by listening to the voice of Michael Cole. The man nearly ruined Foley's big title victory. They should have just had Rock commentate the entire show. Yes, he should even commentate his own matches. Wait til you see JR's return in 99. Absolute disaster :lmao

Don't forget to binge on as much Benoit as you can from WCW. Raven in 1998 had a bunch of really fun PPV matches.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I actually think that Foley/Rock match on Raw where Foley won the title is one of Cole's best called matches lol. 

Even with that, JR would've made that victory seem huge. JR knows how to sell the magnitude of big match victories.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Cole is an odd one indeed. Guy in my eyes is a natural third wheel commentator slotted into a lead role, yet is legitimately praised by many heralded people in the industry (yes even JR), and in terms of a guy who has to process a whrilwind of things and deliver so many plug ins, well there probably hasn't been a better plug in guy in the business' history. Still though, the guy can be really horrid though as a PBP man and even though he has been in the business a long time, guy still sounds hesitant as to calling even the basics at times (hence the often used "what a maneuver). Making things even more odd though, there are certain guys who Cole has been able to call really well ala Cole could always call a pretty good Eddie Guerrero match with passion. 

When Cole shows the passion, he isn't that bad, but when he distances himself or isn't into it, it isn't good. A good example of the differences of JR and Cole would be JR's call at a Mania Taker match where JR said something to the effect of "to those watching at home, I wish you could all be here so we can experience this special moment TOGETHER." Contrast a year or two later with Cole saying "You have no idea what it is like to be here right now" The stark difference in selling me/ rawing me in with investment and making me as a non-live viewer still feel valued in the process is so stark in those two deliveries. Cole's delivery is quite "colder".


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The MetsFan4Ever guy on Reddit said that Michael Cole doesn't really like wrestling that much, which explains why he isn't as passionate as JR for instance.

Alright guys. Place your bets on my choice for 2003 MOTY. 

HINT: It involves a former WWE champion :side:
HINT #2: One of the wrestlers in this match had one of the most critically acclaimed matches in WWE history in the same arena as the match that I'm thinking of.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cole has his moments, but usually, he's terrible. Only time I thought he was close to good was during the Smackdown era with Tazz. It actually felt like a wrestling show where they called the matches and moves properly. But obviously it would be unfair to compare him to the GOAT JR.

Just watched Cena vs Lashley from The Bash before I go to bed and it still held up from last time. I really like how this was worked with every move being set up perfectly and nothing done lazily unlike Cena today. This was a stark contrast to Rock vs Cena II which I also saw yesterday and it was possibly even worse than when I saw it live. Just dull as fuck first half with a lot of restholds and nothing interesting, then they say "fuck it" and hit finisher after finisher with only a couple of good spots, specifically the callbacks. Might also finally watch Cena vs Wyatt from Payback to get an opinion on it, but chances are I wont like it given Cena's style this year.

2003 MOTY... saying it involves a former WWE Champion doesn't really give us much info.

EDIT: Brock vs Benoit? Benoit is not a former WWE Champ (only WHC) and he had the Two Man Power Trip tag in San Jose too. But then again, Brock is the current champ so it doesn't fit.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Brock is fair game.

Cena/Lashley is definitely a very good match. I wish Cena would use his power and strength as an advantage instead of just something he uses in his comeback. He did a good job of wrestling a power match against Cesaro this year. He also utilized it against Punk and Mysterio in 2011.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Tom Phillips is a fairly good commentator. Doesn't get too lost in the JBL/Cole banter and always remembers to call the match and link it to the storylines. Byron Saxton is decent too.


----------



## lemo (Jan 1, 2006)

My favorite cage match of all time.

http://youtu.be/kgw500lKwK4


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Never seen that, I'll admit, but Bret and Yoko did have good chemistry together so I'll check it out. Their WM 9 match was actually good. People just forget it because LOLHOGANINTHEBANK.

I like everyone that works in the NXT booth (Phillips, Saxton, Regal, Stanford, Tensai, etc.), except Renee. And that's considering I mark the fuck out everytime I see her on my screen. Shame that her commentary is every bit as annoying as Lawler's nowadays.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I really want Matt Striker back, but for reasons unknown, people in this thread hate him.


He's a commentator that attempts to sell his own intellect and wrestling knowledge rather than the story within the ring. His calls often come down to adding a wrestling history to each move or possible link to a spiritual influence ("shades of KENTA KOBAYASHI [sic] on that one!") that really isn't necessary and offers no rhythm to the calls being made around that point. It's fine where warranted but when it becomes the point of expansion upon everything it's unneeded. He's rather dry, as well.

Equally, he's a prejudicial and homophobic imbecile who should be black-balled from TV. Michael Cole caught flak for insulting Josh Matthews on Twitter yet, week-in and week-out, Striker ensured on insulting Matthews with the very same subject matter on national television, _throughout the show_. It's both petty and unprofessional, as it detracts from the product and screams bush league. If you wish to watch him call wrestling, Lucha Underground is calling. He's play-by-play (kinda) to Vampiro on colour. If you read that as the worst contemporary announce pairing in wrestling, you'd be correct.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Striker is full of smark-pandering bush league bullshit. I honestly genuinely do think he tries to get the wrestlers on screen over as much as he can, but that counts for nothing when he's an annoying toad to listen to. He was one of the star creators of that horrible type of description that's plagued WWE for years now. "The aggressive nature of Drew McIntyre". Fuck yo butt. His random as fuck nicknames for wrestlers are ear infections, too. Poison Fist of the Pacific Rim. Hate you soooooo much. I don't remember what he called Cody Rhodes during Survivor Series 2009 but it made me want to erase wrestling from even existing. Blue-Eyed Star Paladin or something. What a coont.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

His announce team with Vampiro on Lucha Underground is WOAT.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Yeah1993 said:


> Blue-Eyed Star Paladin or something. What a coont.


Cody Rhodes is the next legendary card in Yu-Gi-Oh, I see.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Which is a bad thing cause Yu-Gi-Oh is ovahrrated. If he were a Digimon card though, he'd be good.


----------



## 96powerstroker (Mar 13, 2013)

Wow lol Its broken down to where he should be a Yugioh Card.
Hey the from duelist kingdom to the end of battle city yugioh was the shit


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Finally watched last weeks Raw, there was one point in the Authority/Cena promo, when Trips said "Do you want to be someone who hobbles down to the ring, for one last hoorah"?, and looked to do the Hogan hand to ear gesture, briefly.

Not sure if that was a sly dig or just a coincidence TBH.

Thought Rollins/Cena was really good TBH, hope they can have a PPV match at some point.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Very disappointed in Henry and Big Show. They tend to have good chemistry with each other, but I've seen Eva Marie matches better than that. Mark Henry this year has been so upsetting. Hurts me as a fan of him to see him wrestle like garbage lately. At least Ziggler continues to kill it. Just imagine how revered Ziggler would be if he wrestled in the 80s. Up there with the Santanas and Magnum TAs of the world.


----------



## White Glove Test (Jun 19, 2007)

wrong thread


----------



## White Glove Test (Jun 19, 2007)

wrong thread


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Screw the haters with their technicalities for the sake of complaining, that post match/ending of Raw was damn solid to me with Randy getting the crowd ignited and as always when he gives a shit selling great as well as Seth Rollins playing his part perfectly with the arrogant Orton pose before the second NASTY curb stomp. I thought the use of blood was a nice touch. Kane falling was hilarious and even good selling by Joey Mercury on the outside. HHH pretty much staying out of this and showing Orton the consequence of his decision, thus sticking to the story was a great touch. That all came off real well to the crowd too who reacted to Orton louder and more properly to the story in ten minutes than Cena has gotten in some time. Solid way to write off Orton and I hope this is expanded upon later.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Rusev vs. Sheamus was great.

NEW US CHAMPION :mark:


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

They really gave Rusev his zenith piece of heat and didn't air that on TV? Given the investment put in Rusev this year, that actually surprises me. Obviously a solid Sheam/Rusev match doesn't surprise me I legitimately consider Rusev a very good and rapidly improving ring talent and we all know when with a physical opponent, Sheamus can really go. Kind of makes me wonder though: If they are going to air title switches (and given Rusev's character's presumed shelf life zenith), particularly when that character getting the belt is a hot commodity, that kind of scares me to what else WWE will eventually air on the Network. At the same time though, so much of the Mcmahon empire has been built on mass promotion/syndication, so at the same time i'm not too worried. Edit: By the same token though, this is a solid way in backing up the constant reminding that everyone "needs" the network and boosting subs. Still though, that is a dangerous game to play.


----------



## blink_41sum_182 (Apr 9, 2011)

Finally WWE uses the Network correctly. Make you pay for exclusive matches you can't just see on Raw (I know some fans are excluded but still). 

Rusev vs. Sheamus - *** 1/2

Best Rusev match ever.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Can Seth Rollins please just cash in on Lesnar already?


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I'm really enjoying this Orton manic character he's going with lately.. Like he's turned up the voices in his head to a 11.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

They really did a great job with this Orton story. For over a year, he's been screwed over by the authority, and now he sees that someone else has become their preferred guy over him. He may not be a natural face by any means, but people really like cheering Orton. Let him be batshit insane and that will be perfect. I'm just really impressed by this RAW episode. Everything had a purpose and we had some good matches to go along with. I don't know what caused this influx in quality, but all it does is make things frustrating because we know things could always be this damn good.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Wait, Rusev won the US title, and i can't see it because it's on the fucking Network?


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Brock said:


> Wait, Rusev won the US title, and i can't see it because it's on the fucking Network?


Probably so they can push the "anything can happen on the Network" stuff, so they can do stuff on it more often to try and get more people to sign up.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ArnoldTricky said:


> Probably so they can push the "anything can happen on the Network" stuff, so they can do stuff on it more often to try and get more people to sign up.


I hope this isn't a continuing trend. Was it announced or even shown on Raw at all?


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

It was promoted throughout Raw and happened immediately after Raw ended. It's out on Dailymotion if you're interested.


*Edit:* k6AekBFzHDknuP9eJwZ


Quick before it goes down :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Seems to be Private, so can't grab it, but ill try and watch it later.

Edit: Grabbing it now.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> They really did a great job with this Orton story. For over a year, he's been screwed over by the authority, and now he sees that someone else has become their preferred guy over him. He may not be a natural face by any means, *but people really like cheering Orton*. Let him be batshit insane and that will be perfect. I'm just really impressed by this RAW episode. Everything had a purpose and we had some good matches to go along with. I don't know what caused this influx in quality, but all it does is make things frustrating because we know things could always be this damn good.


The bolded is so true. I've looked through all the years of his career and this seems to be happen over and over. As a heel, his reactions are usually mediocre and he rarely gets heat that lasts unless he's heeling it up on Daniel Bryan or trying to kill Undertaker. But then he turns face or does his pose and the entire arena is on their feet and cheering him. That pop he'll get when he joins Cena as his surprise partner in his hometown will be unreal. Here's hoping that he RKOs him after the match because there's no easier way to ruin something so good than by turning him into a vanilla face.



Brock said:


> Wait, Rusev won the US title, and i can't see it because it's on the fucking Network?


Match was rather mediocre anyways. Not much you're missing out on.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thought as much TBH, although im interested in what they do now with Rusev being US Champ, opportunities for crazy heat, that they probably won't do.

Thought id upload this, Zayn called this his 'underrated match' recently:

*Sami Zayn vs Jack Swagger (NXT 09.04.2013)*


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao You have got to be kidding me. There is an episode of Mid South Wrestling dedicated to breakdancing. Iceman King Parsons and his multiracial friends do some of the ugliest looking dancing I've seen, and I go to a Catholic college. All the while, this segment is dubbed with a song called Body Work that sounds like something from Sesame Street. I think I even saw Parsons smile while standing in front of a Confederate Flag :lol

EDIT: Oh my lord, Bill Watts' portrayal of the Guerrero family is ridiculous. He might as well call them the Flaming Burritos or some other stereotypical name :lol


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I can't get over the Orton show last night (that's exactly what it was: the Orton show). I can't remember the last time his character has had this much steam behind it. It was perfectly set up last night, leading to the babyface turn, and instantly built up sympathy for him for when he returns.

Also, it sets up one of the "big four" WM matches for WM31: Orton vs. HHH, which seems to be the path they're going with. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Orton vs. Rollins at WM again, but it seems like the issue will focus on Orton vs. HHH when Orton returns and we begin the RTWM.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Urgh, this better not lead to Orton Vs HHH.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I'd prefer Orton vs. Rollins at WM with Orton going over but Rollins cashing in on Reigns later in the night to win the title.

Set up a post-WM title picture including Rollins, Reigns and Orton... Ambrose being in there is a dream, but that's not happening.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

They should have had Orton and Ambrose feud post HIAC so it keeps Ambrose involved with The Authority so he can move onto HHH at Mania and Orton should have turned face around the Rumble and then went into the Rollins programme leading into Mania.

It looks like we'll probably get Reigns-Brock, Cena-Rusev and Orton-HHH. That leaves Rollins without an opponent, I would love if Ambrose beat him in the main event for the belt but that isn't happening so I think that means we'll get Rollins-Bryan providing Bryan can go. Imagine them getting 20 minutes at Mania? :mark


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Ryan193 said:


> They should have had Orton and Ambrose feud post HIAC so it keeps Ambrose involved with The Authority so he can move onto HHH at Mania and Orton should have turned face around the Rumble and then went into the Rollins programme leading into Mania.
> 
> It looks like we'll probably get Reigns-Brock, Cena-Rusev and Orton-HHH. That leaves Rollins without an opponent, I would love if Ambrose beat him in the main event for the belt but that isn't happening so I think that means we'll get Rollins-Bryan providing Bryan can go. Imagine them getting 20 minutes at Mania? :mark


I think it's time to stop hoping Ambrose is in a big match at Wrestlemania. I doubt he is.

Reigns/Lesnar
Orton/HHH (or Rollins)
Sting/HHH (or Taker)
Rusev/Cena

will be the top 4 matches, most likely. And I doubt Bryan works the event either unless he pulls off a superman recovery.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

At least if Orton/Trips happened, Orton would likely go over this time. :kobe10

Despite all the bad matches they've had, I think they could do some good stuff. Not saying I want that match to happen. I do wish that Orton had gone over in the HIAC match because I think this Orton could be good in a Lesnar program. 

Didn't watch much of Raw since my overall interest in the program is getting close to zero levels, but I'll go back and check out bits of it. The end segment was kind of cool. Wish Kane would leave.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

RatedR10 said:


> I think it's time to stop hoping Ambrose is in a big match at Wrestlemania. I doubt he is.
> 
> Reigns/Lesnar
> Orton/HHH (or Rollins)
> ...


I dont even expect Ambrose to have a singles match never mind a big match sadly.

I still have hope that Bryan will be back. 

I wonder if they might do the power struggle with Vince and HHH everyone expected this year now Vince has returned?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Has Vince 'returned', or was it just a one off.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It would be a dream if Orton won the Rumble and beat Brock at WM. Then Rollins can cash in on him the night after to give the Authority feud new life. The way Randy currently is, he wont get stale for a long time. :lol Who am I kidding, they will turn him into a vanilla smiling face by WM time. fpalm

Finally done with 1998, on to the first Raw of 99 which the Network has to witness Foley's title win and Austin with that GOAT pop! Oh, also Rock wrestling with a tracksuit! :mark:


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Brock said:


> Has Vince 'returned', or was it just a one off.


Dont know yet but setting up the stipulation for SVS indicates it might be more than a one off.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> It would be a dream if Orton won the Rumble and beat Brock at WM. Then Rollins can cash in on him the night after to give the Authority feud new life. The way Randy currently is, he wont get stale for a long time. :lol Who am I kidding, they will turn him into a vanilla smiling face by WM time. fpalm
> 
> Finally done with 1998, on to the first Raw of 99 which the Network has to witness Foley's title win and Austin with that GOAT pop! Oh, also Rock wrestling with a tracksuit! :mark:


 how you finding the AE so far? You're more of an in-ring wrestling type of fan but you seem pretty entertained by an era that lacked great wrestling for the most part .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The ring work is subpar other than the odd main events here and there but the unpredictable TV and storylines are far too much fun. I wouldn't put 98 above any of 2002-05 for instance, but it's an enjoyable year in its own right. Largely because of The Rock who is easily the MVP since Austin was wasted in that shitty feud with Undertaker and Kane for too long. Vince McMahon (or rather, Mr. Macman as Brisco says it) has been excellent too.

I expect 99 to be a copycat of this year but in 2000 is when I really assume things get better with them getting new talent and better ring work.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Be prepared though, Post Wrestlemania 15 becomes a slog to get through. At least for me it did. 

I'm doing a similar run as you (though you seem to be getting through much quicker than I ever did) and it's my first time watching AE shows. I really enjoyed 97 and 98. But 99 is tough. I've been stuck in August for months.

Doesn't help now that the videos on the site I was using no longer work. May I ask how you're watching them?


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

If Orton is left to his own devices in this fired up "coke" version, he will never get stale. Randy Orton giving a shit yields some of the highest entertainment value in years. Of course, there absolutely cannot be any act having a shot at eclipsing Cena though, so as soon as Cena sinks his claws into this (and like everything I am scared the Cena character WILL show up especially when this has an indirect link to Cena), we will probably see the hand shaking, hurrah, smiling babyface Vince seems to think is the route all top dogs need to go. Again though, if on a slight miracle the Orton character is left to where it is now, that will never get old so long as Orton cares.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Fuck the noise, Sami Zayn was on WWE Main Event and got a rather decent ole chant along with a "Sami's better" taunt towards Tyson Kidd. "The boyhood dream has come true for Cody McMichael".


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Ryan193 said:


> I dont even expect Ambrose to have a singles match never mind a big match sadly.
> 
> I still have hope that Bryan will be back.
> 
> I wonder if they might do the power struggle with Vince and HHH everyone expected this year now Vince has returned?



Honestly I think it will come back to Ambrose vs Rollins at Mania where they finally have a clean match and Ambrose goes over.

Rollins cashes in on Reigns later to win the belt and this sets up all three guys for the title picture post Wrestlemania. Plus Lesnar if he decides to show up for his rematch and maybe Orton as well if he beats Hunter.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yup, for me alot of things may depend on Lesnar re-signing TBH. At this stage, im not so sure he will, whether it be his decision, or the company's.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Twisted14 said:


> Be prepared though, Post Wrestlemania 15 becomes a slog to get through. At least for me it did.
> 
> I'm doing a similar run as you (though you seem to be getting through much quicker than I ever did) and it's my first time watching AE shows. I really enjoyed 97 and 98. But 99 is tough. I've been stuck in August for months.
> 
> Doesn't help now that the videos on the site I was using no longer work. May I ask how you're watching them?


I will probably blast my way past the last few months of that year, eagerly awaiting The Radicalz to arrive. 1998 was also a bit of a chore to get through after Wrestlemania until the summer, so I think I'll do fine.

I used watchwrestling but now all the links are down since firedrive died so I just download the weeklies from XWT and delete them when I'm finished.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Rah said:


> Fuck the noise, Sami Zayn was on WWE Main Event and *got a rather decent ole chant* along with a "Sami's better" taunt towards Tyson Kidd. "The boyhood dream has come true for Cody McMichael".


fpalm 

If I have to hear one more "nobody knows who they are anyway" argument, God let me find that video. I love Sami, have since I since finding PWG in '05. But right there is the worst part of the otherwise multi-million dollar Mt. Olympus they've built here in Florida. The name/gimmick changes are taking years of momentum away from guys. Sami's just the best example because, unlike almost everybody else, he actually had a thing - name, gimmick, persona, signature taunts/gesture/crowd interactions - and what's it been replaced with? What creative genius did the mighty WWE have that was better than who he was? 

I remember watching Zayn/Dallas in an outdoor match in the run-up to Wrestlemania this year. About half the crowd does the Olé, but it was shot with a handicam around a group of fans who didn't know what the hell the other half of the audience was on about - "I don't get it." "Why are they doing that?" It's so unbelievably counterproductive to the talent and the building of future stars. Good luck Jerry CoKriss and Geddy Huecherro! Gonna make it big, with all this star power we're giving you. Gimmicks? What's your nationality again? No, not you Geddy, you're Mexican, we know that already and were thinking of putting you in a mask and feuding with a newly unmasked, but not yet named signee you may know:vince

On the bright side, :mark: gonna :mark:, so it'll probably be incorporated at some point


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The thing is, I actually like Generico unmasked. As amazing as he was with a mask on, his selling is even better with it off, atleast IMO. However, there is no reason KENTA should be named anything other than KENTA, same with Steen and Devitt. The change from Generico to Sami Zayn actually does make a bit of sense because he's a good looking dude and has the Mick Foley "kind eyes", where people can just tell by looking at him he's a good dude and it helps him as a baby face. But all the others, fuck that. I don't get it at all.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Tbf, if I was KENTA I'd look at the WWE's history with Japanese stars and I'd WANT to change my name... Fuck handing the WWE the rights to the KENTA name because chances are he'll be released at some point and he won't be able to use that name when he returns to Japan or whatever, because the WWE own the rights.

Edit: I'm sure Generico is the same. Even if the WWE wanted to run with that gimmick, I'm sure he'd be hesitant. He's spent 100+ years building up the gimmmick and the reputation. At least with Steen and Devitt, they are their real names so...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Flux said:


> Tbf, if I was KENTA I'd look at the WWE's history with Japanese stars and I'd WANT to change my name... Fuck handing the WWE the rights to the KENTA name because chances are he'll be released at some point and he won't be able to use that name when he returns to Japan or whatever, because the WWE own the rights.


Exactly. Look at the crap Booker T had to go through at the start. One thing with Punk, he owns his naming rights, something id make sure i did before joining TBH.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Flux said:


> Tbf, if I was KENTA I'd look at the WWE's history with Japanese stars and I'd WANT to change my name... Fuck handing the WWE the rights to the KENTA name because chances are he'll be released at some point and he won't be able to use that name when he returns to Japan or whatever, because the WWE own the rights.
> 
> Edit: I'm sure Generico is the same. Even if the WWE wanted to run with that gimmick, I'm sure he'd be hesitant. He's spent 100+ years building up the gimmmick and the reputation. At least with Steen and Devitt, they are their real names so...



I was referring to why WWE doesn't do more deals with these guys like the one Punk has, where he keeps his name but WWE is free to make all the money they want off of it as long as he gets his small cut. I would never sign over my name to WWE or think it's a good idea for anyone to do that, that's just silly, especially when you KNOW you can make a comfortable living on the Indys based off that name.

I'm just curious why WWE seems to be so against doing more deals like Punks. They still get to make a butt load of money off the name while allowing the talent to keep the name that made him famous. If they weren't still making money off Punk merch they wouldn't be producing it, you can rest assured of that.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WWE are scared if they don't trademark the name, the wrestler can take their name to another company (an opposition), make huge money, and ruin WWE.

Yet they never push anybody.


KENTA's not that good a name, tbh. Hell he never had any intention to have that name but his surname is so similar to "Kobashi" that they had to change it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> WWE are scared if they don't trademark the name, the wrestler can take their name to another company (an opposition), make huge money, and ruin WWE.
> 
> Yet they never push anybody.
> 
> ...



Yea but this ain't 1997, there is no company for a wrestler to take their name to make huge money, and ruin WWE. Punk could join TNA tomorrow (god forbid) and it wouldn't matter a single bit in the grand scheme of things for WWE. Without the WWE marketing machine behind them, guys will fade from main stream consciousness in a matter of years and their only place of relevance will be in Japan or somewhere on the Indy scene.

As for KENTA, I think the name is good only because he chose to stylize it KENTA instead of just plain old Kenta. I can't think of any other wrestler who has their name stylized like that, and certainly not someone who is as relevant in the US as KENTA is. That's why I thought it was stupid for WWE to change his name, he already had a pretty established brand and it seems fool hardy to mess with it, especially when it's already hard enough for a Japanese guy who isn't fluent in English to connect with an American audience. Crowds in NXT are still gonna chant KENTA at him.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Going through these Mid South Wrestling episodes, I have a lot of questions to ask those of you who are educated about the territories:

1. I initially copped the MSW episodes from XWT and noticed that the television shows did not have the classics that we know of from MSW (Dibiase/Duggan, Flair/Taylor). I did find these matches in a DVDVR Best of Mid South compilation, and it seems as if these classics occurred at house shows. Is this assumption correct, or was there another television show that Mid South Wrestling had that I don't know of?

2. Was it common for the payoff of feuds to happen at house shows instead of on television?

3. Who taped these house show matches? Now I'm sure the answer is obvious, but what I'm trying to figure out is what criteria does Bill Watts follow when he wants to record a house show or not. Did these promoters record every house show? Or was it a select few? And how would one obtain these house show recordings?

4. Did all territories use this method? I noticed that whenever I watch something from Memphis, it seems that all their "classics" were aired on television and had commentary. I'm guessing this is all on a territory-to-territory basis.

5. Why does Bill Watts feel the need to use wrestling as a platform to express his racist beliefs and political ideals? I mean you're not being very subtle about it when you have an African American wrestler named "Boo" and you talk about how we should appreciate Terry Taylor because he's a Republican.

6. Who is responsible for giving Kamala a job for all these years? The man has appeared on nearly every episode of MSW TV that I've seen so far, and he has only had one good match. The only reason that match was any good was that Jake Roberts turned it into an impromptu handicap match and we got to see Terry Taylor and Jake wrestle each other even though Kamala was Terry's opponent. Kamala can't wrestle, his offense looks like soft shit, he can't talk, his gimmick sucks, he wasn't over, and he was such a damn bore. What did people see in him?

EDIT: And while I'm writing this, Zeb Colter makes his return to Mid South Wrestling, and during this entire match, Bill Watts keeps talking about how stupid the Democrats are instead of talking about the actual match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

1. Watts had the majority (?) of live events filmed. I have no idea if 'live events' is the right term, though. Had some matches commentated, and others I'm pretty sure have none. I genuinely have no idea whatsoever if these taped 'live event' things got to fans who were watching back then. I would guess not since I doubt there's any VHS releases or whatever. I would have guessed they'd air the important ones on TV but they probably didn't.

2. I guess so, yeah. They'd use the TV to build up to the big match that you should see in person. The TV shows weren't long (I don;t think) so they couldn't do as much with them and they prob valued ticket sales over TV ratings. These shows weren't national like WWF, you had fans reading about wrestlers in PWI mags and only getting to see them if they came to their area. "This Abdullah the Butcher looks scary" *10 months later* "That Abdullah guy is coming to the Mid-South Coliseum - let's check it out"

3. Joel Watts taped some, I'm almost positive of that. There's a legend about Joel Watts keeping a tape of Flair v. Murdoch from 1985 in a car and it getting too hot to read. Again I want to say the majority of house shows would have been filmed (around the 80s) but I have no proof of it. As for how people originally obtain them, there's universalwrestling .com that sold shows, or still does. Never really took a deep look into it. A lot of it can depend on who you know. Some people contact other people and other people are involved in graps, etc. I think Magnum TA and CM Punk have their respective goodhelmet comps (Punk was watching the Mid-South or something on a clip on the BITW DVD IIRC, too). Lou Thesz had the set that Corey has/had on his site, etc. 

4. CWA Memphis did it, for sure. Lawler/Dundee never had a big match live on TV, I don't think. Actually is 10/19/85 a big match? Was that one from 88 or something on TV? Again their air time was really limited, plus the little studio they had for the filming wasn't the Mid-South Coliseum that they had their big shows in. 

5. For a racist the dude was shockingly high on Butch Reed and Koko Ware. JYD was made in Mid-South, too. Otherwise I couldn't answer this.

6. He has a fucking awesome gimmick. I definitely don't think he's as bad as you do, either.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I don't think Watts is a racist, at all. His best friend and pretty much his brother was Ernie Ladd, Watts was the first guy to have an African American as a booker, he built his entire territory around JYD, he crowned the first African American world champ in WCW, and there is just a laundry list really of things he did for African Americans that no other promoter has done. Don't believe me, go watch the Legends Roundtable discussion on the "Soul of Wrestling". It's Watts sitting there with Teddy Long and Teddy Atlas discussing race issues in wrestling. 

Did the guy have an affinity for racial gimmicks and angles? Sure, but Watts was also a businessman and knew that race angles drew money. Now I'm a white guy so it's not my place for me to tell anyone of color what is and isn't offensive. Just know that every time I've seen Watts do a racial angle or gimmick, it was to get an African American baby face over. I don't think Ernie Ladd, who knew Watts for over 40 years and considered Watts a brother, would have been so close to Bill if he had even the slightest inkling that Bill was a racist. And Ernie did a whole hell of a lot for African Americans in pro graps in general.

Just my .02

Oh, and one more thing. Back in the Mid 80s television was treated almost as an advertisement for the big house shows where they would draw these huge gates, at places like the Super Dome. In fact, A LOT of promoters had to freaking pay the television station just to put them on TV. The ones who didn't got the time slot for free, but they essentially didn't make money off TV ratings. All that came later. There primary source of revenue was those house shows, so they ran weekly TV to get people excited to buy a ticket. That's why more often than not with Mid South, TV was for the heels to get their heat, the house show was for the baby face to get their revenge. I'm not sure who changed that system and decided "hey we are giving these TV stations premium content and they are making money off the advertising and we aren't getting a nickel. What gives?" But it's amazing it didn't happen sooner than it did.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It's such an interesting dynamic to television. I went through one other watch-through of a territory before, and it was WCCW where television was the essence of their promotion. I can't say I'm a fan of the system that Mid-South used, but that's purely for selfish reasons because it's impossible to find the classics of Mid South that aren't already on the DVDVR set. Who knows what classics that we've missed out on.

Some more observations of Mid South:

-The Jim Duggan that the WWE portrays is so bastardized. It's as if Vince just took the 2x4 that Duggan would occasionally bring out and turn that into his entire gimmick while adding annoying jingoism to it. On top of that, his style of wrestling in the Mid South was that of a no-nonsense brawler somewhat similar to what we see of Ambrose now instead of the comedic nonsense that he's done for the past three decades. I can't believe that I not only like Duggan now, but I would go out of my way to watch everything he did prior to the WWE.

-Ric Flair is treated like some deity among everyone. Bill Watts and gang were at the mercy of the Nature Boy.

-I love the crossover between territories, and it seems as if the fans in the arena knew beforehand of the status and importance of stars that weren't local to them. Kerry Von Erich had a short stint in 1985 in MSW and the man received gigantic pops for instance.

-Ted Dibiase isn't just some rich guy who is good on promos and makes funny laughs. Dude is the MVP so far of the Mid South and he's quickly becoming a big time favorite of mine. Once again, Vince McMahon bastardized a great wrestler by giving them a gimmick that relates to one small aspect of their character and turning it into the entire character itself. Even the Ted Dibiase that we saw in the WWE is a joke compared to this Dibiase. And he's a damn good in-ring worker too.

-Terry Taylor is such a likable babyface. He doesn't really have a gimmick (until Vince McMahon bastardized HIM too), but like a Sami Zayn or Dolph Ziggler, he knows how to draw sympathy from the crowd and sell his ass off. His feuds with Jake Roberts and Ric Flair that were based on championships need more recognition.

-Teenage Shawn Michaels was a better seller than old Shawn Michaels.

-Jake Roberts is also king. Now I don't know if bastardized is the word to describe what we know of him as, but his matches in Mid South are infinitely better than whatever he did once he went mainstream. And he didn't do any of that goofy snake stuff. And it was so cool seeing the DDT being treated like the most dangerous move in wrestling.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Watched the first Raw of 99 on the Network. Al Snow and Road Dogg had a super fun street fight that went outside the arena in the cold snow and of course, Mankind's title win. I never noticed it before, but damn did Michael Cole do his damnest to ruin it. Just AWFUL, awful commentary from this goof. He keeps repeating "MICK FOLEY, MANKIND, IS THE WWF CHAMPION" or some variation of it and keeps talking over those in the ring to the point even Lawler tells him to "listen".

Thank God Benoit was traded to Raw for his big push, would have been awful to hear Cole's shitty attempt at showing emotion for such a huge title win. Instead we got the GOAT JR losing his voice!


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Not to harp on a now older topic, but the ole chants work with Zayn as the WWE have never once not announced his background. He's always acclaimed as a wrestler that made a massive name for himself around the world, and has a gathering of fans, already. His trunks are marked with the flags of every country he's wrestled in, for instance. His past is hardly a secret nor non-canon now. Was it a probable defence against the possibility of the ole chants? I guess, but it's not as if the internet is foreign to even the fans that aren't voicing opinions on forums or following the Indy scene. The first result via a Google search of Sami Zayn is his Wikipedia article which is predominantly based on his time as El Generico and explains the catchphrase in the opening line. It's an easy phrase that will catch on. It's fun to chant and fits into the happy-go-lucky, energized demeanour of the character.

Besides, the chant isn't even connected to Mexico (it's Peninsular Spanish with probable Arabian etymology) so it being denotative of only his older character is not much of an argument in kayfabe terms. It's a soccer chant, more than anything, even still.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> It's such an interesting dynamic to television. I went through one other watch-through of a territory before, and it was WCCW where television was the essence of their promotion. I can't say I'm a fan of the system that Mid-South used, but that's purely for selfish reasons because it's impossible to find the classics of Mid South that aren't already on the DVDVR set. Who knows what classics that we've missed out on.
> 
> Some more observations of Mid South:
> 
> ...



Dude I couldn't agree more with everything you said. When I first got my Mid South set I remember looking at the match listing and seeing Jim fucking Duggan all over it and being like "well this is gonna suck." NOPE. Jim fucking Duggan was an AMAZING wrestler before coming to WWE, face or heel he could just fucking go. His punches were gnarly and his whole presentation and style was just gritty, meat and potatoes, lunch pail type stuff. Even his ring gear was always dirty and caked in old dry blood. Suffice to say I haven't really seen one single match from Duggan in Mid South were I thought he was bad, he was fantastic.

Ditto and x2 for DiBiase. Now I knew Teddy had a rep as one of the better workers out there before joining WWF so it wasn't like Duggan where expectations were low. Teddy has a fantastic match with Bret Hart at a house show in Odessa that I absolutely LOVE watching. What I loved about Teddy in Mid South was how smooth and easy he was in the ring, he never fucked up, he never did dumb spots, and he always could crank things up whenever he sensed that the mat work wasn't getting the job done. Plus, as with all guys who worked for Watts, he threw a sweet punch. 

I need to get into some more Jake and Terry Taylor, I haven't watched as much of them as I have of Duggan, DiBiase, Sawyer, Terry Gordy, Bossman, Gang, and Steve Williams. Make sure you watch some Buzz Sawyer, he was a badass.



Choke2Death said:


> Watched the first Raw of 99 on the Network. Al Snow and Road Dogg had a super fun street fight that went outside the arena in the cold snow and of course, Mankind's title win. I never noticed it before, but damn did Michael Cole do his damnest to ruin it. Just AWFUL, awful commentary from this goof. He keeps repeating "MICK FOLEY, MANKIND, IS THE WWF CHAMPION" or some variation of it and keeps talking over those in the ring to the point even Lawler tells him to "listen".
> 
> Thank God Benoit was traded to Raw for his big push, would have been awful to hear Cole's shitty attempt at showing emotion for such a huge title win. Instead we got the GOAT JR losing his voice!


Dude tell me about it. Everyone always points to that match as Cole's best work and it completely baffles me. He was AWFUL. He needed to just get his one line in and then shut the fuck up and let the crowd and Foley tell the story, but no, he had to get his stupid lines in that I'm sure he spent days working on. Foley says in his book that one of his biggest regrets was that JR wasn't there for that match, as he had suffered another Bells Palsy attack. I can just imagine how perfect JR would have been, hell JR damn near staked his job on hiring Foley. Vince was 100% against it and even said "you need to have your heart broken and be dissapointed seeing one of your guys fail, so you will know like I do when a guy just can't cut it". Going from that to winning a world title, in just 3 years, that's pretty heavy stuff and I know it would have meant the world to JR.

I've said it a thousand times, but the only time Cole was good was when he was with Tazz calling Smackdown with Heyman directing him from the headset. That was a killer combination, I always loved how Tazz would describe Benoits moves and I REALLY loved how well Cole consistently called Eddies matches. Eddie was Cole's muse I think, he was always at his best calling Eddie matches, ESPECIALLY when Eddie turned heel on Rey in 2005. That GAB 05' match was helped exponentially by the level of disgust and hatred Cole and Tazz showed towards Eddie.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> 1. Watts had the majority (?) of live events filmed. I have no idea if 'live events' is the right term, though. Had some matches commentated, and others I'm pretty sure have none. I genuinely have no idea whatsoever if these taped 'live event' things got to fans who were watching back then. I would guess not since I doubt there's any VHS releases or whatever. I would have guessed they'd air the important ones on TV but they probably didn't.
> 
> 2. I guess so, yeah. They'd use the TV to build up to the big match that you should see in person. The TV shows weren't long (I don;t think) so they couldn't do as much with them and they prob valued ticket sales over TV ratings. These shows weren't national like WWF, you had fans reading about wrestlers in PWI mags and only getting to see them if they came to their area. "This Abdullah the Butcher looks scary" *10 months later* "That Abdullah guy is coming to the Mid-South Coliseum - let's check it out"
> 
> ...


Someone gave Jericho a copy of Will's Lionheart set too.

---------------------------------------------

Speaking of Duggan/Sawyer:

x1yfveo

Just love Jim shouting to the ref "Get the fuck out my way", something like that, doubt that is on the WWE DVD lol.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> Someone gave Jericho a copy of Will's Lionheart set too.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------
> 
> ...



It irks the absolute shit out of me when WWE edits out wrestlers cussing during their matches. They damn near ruined the Flair/Trips Cage match that way, anyone who watches that match will say the highlight of it, the part that gave them goosebumps, was when Trips had Flair in the figure four and Flair is selling screaming his lungs out saying "Oh Jesus Christ, oh god!" And then he gets this crazy look in his eye and looks like at Hunter and says "ILL KILL YOU YOU MOTHERFUCKER ILL FUCKING KILL YOU" and just starts clawing and grabbing at Trips. That's the moment that takes that match from "Great" to "All time classic" in my opinion. That's when I really, really got hooked and Flair got me 100000% behind him. And WWE ruined it, all because they were scared a few kids would hear a cuss word. Well Flair and Hunter are both covered from head to toe in blood, so I don't see how that's okay but saying motherfucker isn't. WWE logic I guess.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Decided to watch a few Survivor Series matches, starting with the Austin vs Bischoff 2003 Elimination match from 2003, which i can't remember a thing from lol.

So, how did Austin get to stay despite his team losing the match?


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Dude I couldn't agree more with everything you said. When I first got my Mid South set I remember looking at the match listing and seeing Jim fucking Duggan all over it and being like "well this is gonna suck." NOPE. Jim fucking Duggan was an AMAZING wrestler before coming to WWE, face or heel he could just fucking go. His punches were gnarly and his whole presentation and style was just gritty, meat and potatoes, lunch pail type stuff. Even his ring gear was always dirty and caked in old dry blood. Suffice to say I haven't really seen one single match from Duggan in Mid South were I thought he was bad, he was fantastic.
> 
> Ditto and x2 for DiBiase. Now I knew Teddy had a rep as one of the better workers out there before joining WWF so it wasn't like Duggan where expectations were low. Teddy has a fantastic match with Bret Hart at a house show in Odessa that I absolutely LOVE watching. What I loved about Teddy in Mid South was how smooth and easy he was in the ring, he never fucked up, he never did dumb spots, and he always could crank things up whenever he sensed that the mat work wasn't getting the job done. Plus, as with all guys who worked for Watts, he threw a sweet punch.
> 
> ...


Random fact; Heyman used to make Tazz and Cole re-do the commentary for Smackdown the day after they taped it so it would be done in the way he wanted it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Ryan193 said:


> Random fact; Heyman used to make Tazz and Cole re-do the commentary for Smackdown the day after they taped it so it would be done in the way he wanted it.


Yea they went over that in the Heyman documentary, they said before Paul took over Cole and Tazz would spend maybe 1-2 hours the day after SD was filmed cleaning up bits and pieces of their commentary. After Paul took over as head writer, they'd spend 8 hours or more sometimes just because Paul was so adamant about getting it right. And it shows, listen to SD commentary in 2003, it was almost as good as the Raw booth with JR and Lawler. That just goes to show it's Vince and Kevin Dunn ruining the commentary these days. But enough said about that, no use beating a dead horse.

Anyone got a match rec for me? I need something new to watch. Preferably something pre 2006, 80s, 90s, and early 2000s are all good. If it's a FIGHT, even better.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

EDIT: Sorry cjack, I linked the wrong Bundy/Williams match. They had a really good one in 1984 that made Williams into a star, but I can't find it. Bah, I'll find a match for you. 

Have you seen the Reed/JYD Ghetto Street Fight?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finally watched the 30 minute ironman match with Rick Rude and Steamboat. Thought some of the resthold spots lasted a bit too long but otherwise, it was an excellent performance from both men and I really liked Rude doing everything in the last 30 seconds to get even in the scoreline. I know the restholds weren't really restholds as they were telling a story but what can I say, I'm just not that into matches where they do headlock/sleeper spots too many times. But great match other than this minor issue I had with it.

Gonna binge watch some more early 90s-late 80s stuff. Matches with Flair, String, Steamboat, Savage and so on.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Anyone got a match rec for me? I need something new to watch. Preferably something pre 2006, 80s, 90s, and early 2000s are all good. If it's a FIGHT, even better.


Wahoo/Bockwinkel 8/28/83


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> The thing is, I actually like Generico unmasked. As amazing as he was with a mask on, his selling is even better with it off, atleast IMO. However, there is no reason KENTA should be named anything other than KENTA, same with Steen and Devitt. The change from Generico to Sami Zayn actually does make a bit of sense because he's a good looking dude and has the Mick Foley "kind eyes", where people can just tell by looking at him he's a good dude and it helps him as a baby face. But all the others, fuck that. I don't get it at all.


I like Gnerico unmasked plenty - what bothers me is that here is a guy with a defined gimmick (something most guys on the indies don't have) and it gets scrapped by the company who emphasizes gimmick, and yet - doesn't have anything else creatively to fill the void. 

A name is a name, but it's so obviously telling that the _only_ thing Sami garners as a unique pop or reaction is the Ole, something that WWE has gone out of their way to nix from him. Steen, it doesn't matter - he'll be the same guy he ever was. Devitt and KENTA too, except their relatively known status within the industry could've been better taken advantage of, but Sami is the worst. A multi-million dollar creative staff can't come up with anything, and yet he has to drop part of what made him instantly recognizable and sympathetic? It's garbage. 

It's a money play, pure and simple, to use their leverage to maintain the monopoly they have on the industry. Maybe it's been my hiatus from watching a lot of WWE programming lately and being more interested in the independent stuff at the moment (BOLA was awesome!), but there's things that happen which make me remember why I have a hard time watching their programming over an extended period of time.

Also, Sting/Rude NJPW:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> EDIT: Sorry cjack, I linked the wrong Bundy/Williams match. They had a really good one in 1984 that made Williams into a star, but I can't find it. Bah, I'll find a match for you.
> 
> Have you seen the Reed/JYD Ghetto Street Fight?


I sure have, about 3-4 times, me and JackEvans187 were HUGE fans of it when it got released on that Mid South set. Probably one of the 2-3 best matches on the entire thing.



Yeah1993 said:


> Wahoo/Bockwinkel 8/28/83


That sounds exquisite, the only Wahoo match I've seen is the 2/3 Falls BotB match he had with Flair which of course is amazing. Let me see if I can find this using google.



Choke2Death said:


> Finally watched the 30 minute ironman match with Rick Rude and Steamboat. Thought some of the resthold spots lasted a bit too long but otherwise, it was an excellent performance from both men and I really liked Rude doing everything in the last 30 seconds to get even in the scoreline. I know the restholds weren't really restholds as they were telling a story but what can I say, I'm just not that into matches where they do headlock/sleeper spots too many times. But great match other than this minor issue I had with it.
> 
> Gonna binge watch some more early 90s-late 80s stuff. Matches with Flair, String, Steamboat, Savage and so on.


As you said, everyone has their own personal likes and dislikes with matches in regards to pacing, I just happen to think that Steamboat/Rude match has about the most perfect pacing for a 30 minute long match. That's the 3rd best match in WCW history IMO, behind only Flair/Steamboat and Eddie/Rey. Did you notice how perfectly Rude sold his ribs? That's easily one of the best aspects of that match, he doesn't do one single thing without selling those ribs once Steamboat injures them, he even sells them when he's flexing :lmao. I also flat out loved Jesse The Body's commentary for it, he puts both guys over like a trillion bucks.

Flair and Stings best match is probably Great American Bash 1990, their 45 minute draw at COTC is a real drag IMO I much prefer that Bash bout. For Savage try and find (I think Zep uploaded it actually) the WrestleFest match he has in 1988 with DiBiase, or anything really with Tito Santana. Steamboat you really can't go wrong with anything he does, his matches with Savage, Vader, Flair, Steve Austin, and his tags with Shane Douglas and Dustin Rhodes are all fucking great. I would recommend the tremendous Steamboat/Youngblood vs Slaughter/Kernoodle cage match but since you hate matches with lots of holds I don't know if this is one for you, as the first 10 minutes or so are nothing but holds but the pace picks up mightily after that until that molten finish.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

lol, yeah. Rude is flexing and selling the ribs then Jesse puts him over for being gutsy enough to do that then JR counters it with "But he did it with the right arm!". :lmao Another thing that made me laugh was the kid at the front row doing the "bumping and grinding" at one point in the background.

I gotta say Rick Rude won me over with this match, I think I'll make his SummerSlam match with Ultimate Warrior a priority. Anything else worth watching, don't hesitate to mention it.

Is there anything in these MSG house shows on the Network worth watching, cjack? I saw a thumbnail of Flair and Piper in one of them and wonder if it's a good match. I wanna watch more prime Flair in general, already seen the Steamboat stuff (not COTC but when I'm in the mood for 60 minutes, I will) and the I Quit with Funk as well as WM8 with Savage.

It's such a wonderful experience. Took my iPhone to the bathroom and as I was taking a dump that lasted way too long, I managed to watch a sub-15 minute match. For this one, I chose Mysterio vs Punk from Armageddon 2008 and it was great stuff. Would've been even better with the nearfalls had I not already known Punk is winning. (I didn't even see the spoiler, just knew it would happen when they mentioned the stipulation)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

All these years, and the solution to get you to like Punk was to watch him wrestle while taking a dump.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

watch the flair/hogan MSG match, its a December episode

For naitch stuff never mentioned

his windham series,
vs. ricky morton (GAB 86 ? )
kerry von erich hawaii match from 1985
vs. Koko B ware 1985
vs. wahoo Mcdaniels 7/85

most of that should be on YT


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

If you want old school Flair, you've GOTTA check out the Flair/Windham 1/20/87 bout from the Ultimate Collection set. It's 20-25 minutes of non stop action, both guys go full bore without ever really taking a rest. One of the most slept on Flair matches, I'd honestly consider it a near perfect 5-star match. Flair was at his absolute best, and Windham in his prime was as good as anyone in the world.

If you're ever in the mood for a longer match, you really have to see Flair/Windham Battle of the Belts 1986 atleast once. It's a 45 minute epic, but man is it ever great. Again both guys go HARD, you won't ever get bored I promise you. Cal is on record as saying it's the 2nd greatest match of all time, behind only his beloved HBK/Taker HiaC bout. I'd watch that the first time you ever feel like experiencing an epic saga.

As for the old school shows, I haven't watched all of them but yes there is definitely stuff worth seeing on there. In particular there is one from 1988 at the Spectrum that has a card of Harts/Rougeas, Rick Rude/Jake Roberts, and Macho Man/Million Dollar ManAbsolutely needs to be seen as all the matches are really fun old school bouts.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Found Hogan vs Flair from MSG 91. Flair has blue trunks and I'm sure I've seen some gif from this match before.

I've heard a lot about Flair vs Windham but I'm not sure if I will dig it because the matches are long and I heard they tell a story based around headlocks. I don't have a problem watching long matches, it just becomes hard when it's slow paced. If I've confused it with something else, you can correct me on that.

I should still be able to sit through it at least once at some point, though. If I survived Bret vs HBK from WM12, I think I can handle nearly anything.



funnyfaces1 said:


> All these years, and the solution to get you to like Punk was to watch him wrestle while taking a dump.


Like him? Where did you get that from? :lol I just am in the mood to watch some of his matches since it's been about a year since I watched anything he did excluding the odd matches here and there earlier this year. Also watched GAB with Batista a few days ago.

Time to watch WM28 with Jericho tomorrow too!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I can't believe I'm telling you not to watch a Punk match, but you should go through as much WCW Benoit as you can. Go through his PPV matches chronologically. And make sure to watch as much Raven, DDP, and Jericho on PPVs in 1998.

So apparently Jake Roberts and Tito Santana were in Chicago this week and I missed out on the opportunity to meet them. I guess I could go see Chris Sabin tomorrow, but I don't wanna buy a burger from The Squared Circle restaurant. Shame on me for not taking advantage of these weekly wrestling attractions in my city, while guys in Sweden and Virginia get next to nothing :lol


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

You're always telling me to not watch Punk matches. What is the purpose of that? Is it some type of reverse psychology or what?

As for Benoit, I watched the Uncensored triple threat with Raven and DDP the other day. Great stuff and I was surprised by Benoit taking minimal bumps in this. Sucks that his matches are untagged which forces me to look them up on google instead of searching on the Network itself. Also watched the only match of his that you can access via search of his name, which is some ECW TV match with 2 Cold Scorpio. What are their praised WCW matches btw?

Hogan vs Flair was okay, Hogan not selling anything in the first half was annoying but surprisingly, they actually had Flair with the advantage afterwards and he even pinned Hogan. No point in them reversing the decision.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> You're always telling me to not watch Punk matches. What is the purpose of that? Is it some type of reverse psychology or what?
> 
> As for Benoit, I watched the Uncensored triple threat with Raven and DDP the other day. Great stuff and I was surprised by Benoit taking minimal bumps in this. Sucks that his matches are untagged which forces me to look them up on google instead of searching on the Network itself. Also watched the only match of his that you can access via search of his name, which is some ECW TV match with 2 Cold Scorpio. What are their praised WCW matches btw?
> 
> Hogan vs Flair was okay, Hogan not selling anything in the first half was annoying but surprisingly, they actually had Flair with the advantage afterwards and he even pinned Hogan. No point in them reversing the decision.


Didn't realize you hadn't seen all of Benoits greatness from WCW already, or else I would have included his matches in my original list.

Here are some of my faves:

Benoit/Finlay Slamboree 1998
Benoit/Jericho Fall Brawl 1996
Benoit/MENG Slamboree 1997
Benoit/DDP SuperBrawl 1998
Benoit/Taskmaster FCA GAB 1996
Benoit/Scorpio SuperBrawl 1993
Benoit/Sid Souled Out 2000
Benoit/Booker T GAB 1998

I'm sure I'm missing a few but that's all I can think of off the top of my head for PPV only. If you want his Nitro/Thunder stuff there is a LOT more, including an awesome Flair match on Thunder in 1999 that Zep uploaded.

P.s I'm telling you, Flair/Windham 1/20/87 is just about non stop action from bell to bell, Windham was an absolute work horse and you already know about Flair and his conditioning. The match is about 20-25 minutes long, give it a shot! If it sucks you can come back here and tell everyone I'm a Jack off.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think any chance of you appreciating Punk's work is a lost cause at this point. If you couldn't enjoy his 2012 in-ring work or even his stuff in ROH, then there's no hope and no reason to waste your time.

I think you've seen a lot of Benoit's big matches, but the Meng series in 1997 is a must. He had a really good match with Jericho in Fall Brawl 96. I really liked his Starrcade match with Liger. If you need WCW match recommendations, I would bookmark these two lists:

http://www.puroresu.tv/forums/topic/240-top-200-matches-of-wcw-monday-nitro/
http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/lofiversion/index.php?t77415.html

There used to be a list of 434 WCW matches to watch from DVDVR, but unfortunately it disappeared. That list helped me with going through wrestling from before the Attitude Era.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Lost cause even though a lot of the time I put over the matches of his I've seen? Ever since he disappeared, I've found it easier to enjoy his matches so maybe I'll even re-like OTL with Bryan.

As for Benoit, I've seen half the matches on cjack's list. (matches with Booker, Sid, Finlay, Sullivan & DDP) For Meng, I've seen the death match, forgot which PPV it was. Also watched a Nitro match with Eddie from late 96 where Benoit has taped up shoulder. Wasn't as good as their other stuff.

I would also like to see more Vader, which I'm sure cjack will provide me with a big list being the huge mark that he is.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Rah said:


> Not to harp on a now older topic, *but the ole chants work with Zayn as the WWE have never once not announced his background.* He's always acclaimed as a wrestler that made a massive name for himself around the world, and has a gathering of fans, already. His trunks are marked with the flags of every country he's wrestled in, for instance. His past is hardly a secret nor non-canon now. Was it a probable defence against the possibility of the ole chants? I guess, but it's not as if the internet is foreign to even the fans that aren't voicing opinions on forums or following the Indy scene. The first result via a Google search of Sami Zayn is his Wikipedia article which is predominantly based on his time as El Generico and explains the catchphrase in the opening line. It's an easy phrase that will catch on. It's fun to chant and fits into the happy-go-lucky, energized demeanour of the character.
> 
> Besides, the chant isn't even connected to Mexico (it's Peninsular Spanish with probable Arabian etymology) so it being denotative of only his older character is not much of an argument in kayfabe terms. It's a soccer chant, more than anything, even still.


How does having half an audience not understand why the other half is chanting work? Surely it would be better if they clued their *entire* audience in on it? I mean, sure, if you Google it, you can find it but as a first time viewer who's not going to go through the effort, it's confusing and not immediately associated with the performer, teetering on JBL chant levels of relevancy. That's the thing - it's not about what I can look up online - it's about what the company presents. 

World traveled wrestler isn't really a huge distinction - hell, half the recentlly signed guys can claim that. What has been brought to the table to make him special and unique to hook a first time viewer? Nationality? Ginger underdog? That's the whole point - he had a hook, and really doesn't now save a ****-quality match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Lost cause even though a lot of the time I put over the matches of his I've seen? Ever since he disappeared, I've found it easier to enjoy his matches so maybe I'll even re-like OTL with Bryan.
> 
> As for Benoit, I've seen half the matches on cjack's list. (matches with Booker, Sid, Finlay, Sullivan & DDP) For Meng, I've seen the death match, forgot which PPV it was. Also watched a Nitro match with Eddie from late 96 where Benoit has taped up shoulder. Wasn't as good as their other stuff.
> 
> I would also like to see more Vader, which I'm sure cjack will provide me with a big list being the huge mark that he is.


ITS TIME, ITS TIME, ITS VADER TIME :mark: :mark:

One of my all time biggest pro graps regrets is that Vader and Benoit just missed each other in WCW and in WWE. If those two had ever met in the ring with atleast 15 minutes we might have seen an all timer. 

Here are some of my Vader favorites:

Vader vs Sting GAB 1992
Vader vs Sting Strap Match SuperBrawl 1993
Vader vs Sting Starrcade 1992
Vader vs Sting Slamboree 1994
Vader vs Flair Starrcade 1993
Vader vs Steamboat Human Cage Saturday Night 1993
Vader vs The Boss Spring Stampede 1994
Vader vs Cactus Jack Halloween Havoc 1993
Vader vs Cactus Jack Grudge Match WCW 1993 (you can find this on Zep's DM channel)
Vader vs Stan Hansen AJPW 1990 (match where Vaders eyeball gets poked out and he still finishes the match)
Vader vs Shawn Michaels SS 1996
Vader vs Undertaker RR 1997 & Canadian Stampede 1997
Vader vs Shamrock IYH 
Vader vs Misawa AJPW 1999

That should get you started.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Vader vs Kiyoshi Tamura, 6/10/94* will always be a big favorite of mine too.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> *Vader vs Kiyoshi Tamura, 6/10/94* will always be a big favorite of mine too.



Indeed. I really dug all the matches on that UWFi set you sent me but that's gotta be my favorite, a perfect example of how to wrestle a s "shoot style" match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't think I would call any Vader shoot match a perfect example of how to work a shoot match. He usually worked too much like a non-shoot pro wrestler (b/c that's what he was DUH). I suppose I don't exactly remember Vader/Tamura too much though and if I know Tamura he'd create a great shoot match asleep with no arms. And because he's probably a bit of a dick he'd squander any attempts at a wrestler working like a non-shoot.

To this day the only big Vader match I haven't seen though is the 94 match with Takada. I guess that Bradshaw match is getting a bunch of positive reaction and I never watched that. Vader might be my favourite wrestler ever.

I might do what wrestling fans (esp myself) for some reason never do and watch a bunch of highly-praised matches I haven't seen before in gigantic bulk.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Yeah1993 said:


> I don't think I would call any Vader shoot match a perfect example of how to work a shoot match. He usually worked too much like a non-shoot pro wrestler (b/c that's what he was DUH). I suppose I don't exactly remember Vader/Tamura too much though and if I know Tamura he'd create a great shoot match asleep with no arms. And because he's probably a bit of a dick he'd squander any attempts at a wrestler working like a non-shoot.
> 
> To this day the only big Vader match I haven't seen though is the 94 match with Takada. I guess that Bradshaw match is getting a bunch of positive reaction and I never watched that. Vader might be my favourite wrestler ever.
> 
> *I might do what wrestling fans (esp myself) for some reason never do and watch a bunch of highly-praised matches I haven't seen before in gigantic bulk.*


what a fuckin' ridiculous idea


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I don't think I would call any Vader shoot match a perfect example of how to work a shoot match. He usually worked too much like a non-shoot pro wrestler (b/c that's what he was DUH). I suppose I don't exactly remember Vader/Tamura too much though and if I know Tamura he'd create a great shoot match asleep with no arms. And because he's probably a bit of a dick he'd squander any attempts at a wrestler working like a non-shoot.
> 
> To this day the only big Vader match I haven't seen though is the 94 match with Takada. I guess that Bradshaw match is getting a bunch of positive reaction and I never watched that. Vader might be my favourite wrestler ever.
> 
> I might do what wrestling fans (esp myself) for some reason never do and watch a bunch of highly-praised matches I haven't seen before in gigantic bulk.


I guess I should have added the caveat that Vader/Tamura is the perfect example of what I think a shoot style pro wrestling match should be. I'm sure plenty of other people could disagree with that, it's just that match is the ideal for me, it hits the sweet spot of being as realistic looking as possible while also being entertaining. There are of course several instances in the match when you can tell the 2 guys are working together, but they keep those moments to a minimum and I'm sure you could show that match to a non fan and convince them it's real.

Vader is a guy who I just never get tired of watching, ever. He's on that short list with Eddie, Foley, Benoit, Finlay, and Mysterio of guys who I can watch 1000 of their matches in a row and be totally down to watch match # 1001. He's everything a pro wrestling bad guy should be, the ideal heel.

Fuck C2D I totally forgot a Vader match, this is a shorter one, about 10 minutes long, but I'd say if I could get you to watch and Vader match it would be this one, the Vader vs Dustin Rhodes match from Clash of the Champions XXIX. It's one of those matches that's just absolutely perfect, and is Vader at his very best and Dustin at his best. You can't beat it. Give it a watch, it's on the network.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

You can probably throw in some Vader tags too TBH, like with Bigelow in Japan.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'll save those for when I'm on the mood to binge watch some good shit. (Y)

:lmao @ Undertaker returning in 1999 and cutting his wrist while "speaking in tongues" per commentary. This is so cheesy that I just laugh at it. Hell, even the fans are chanting "Bullshit" at the wrist cutting.

Good God, Michael Cole's commentary is just way too awful. :lmao


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

As one who hasn't read spoilers and has decided to somewhat keep an eye on SD, apparently the Dean/Wyatt story is centered around Bray being able to cure Dean of his lunacies since Bray's methods have "cured" Harper and Rowan. Bray feels he can be that great influence since Bray mentions Dean's own father hasn't been there for him, but Bray can be if Dean follows him. That has some interesting potential, but I don't trust WWE's booking to concurrently run two high quality storylines outside of mania season, and since I think the show will mainly center around Authority/Cena's struggle, I don't trust it. That has interesting potential though.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Yet the first promo mentioned Ambrose being a reflection of himself; that he saw his own tortured soul whenever he looked at Dean. He may have said that "the system" created monsters like them, but he ended noting that he will psychologically tear Ambrose apart and that he best start running. Now he wants to help him?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Is Georgia Championship Wrestling any good? And is there a place where I can learn more about the top territories of the 80s?

Opinions on Humongous? Very interesting idea of a character.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I don't think I would call any Vader shoot match a perfect example of how to work a shoot match. He usually worked too much like a non-shoot pro wrestler (b/c that's what he was DUH). I suppose I don't exactly remember Vader/Tamura too much though and if I know Tamura he'd create a great shoot match asleep with no arms. And because he's probably a bit of a dick he'd squander any attempts at a wrestler working like a non-shoot.
> 
> To this day the only big Vader match I haven't seen though is the 94 match with Takada. I guess that Bradshaw match is getting a bunch of positive reaction and I never watched that. Vader might be my favourite wrestler ever.
> 
> *I might do what wrestling fans (esp myself) for some reason never do and watch a bunch of highly-praised matches I haven't seen before in gigantic bulk.*


Let me know if you watched anything from 2011-onward so I can help you with that


----------



## Alex (Feb 27, 2010)

How would you guys rate RAW throughout 1996? I've just downloaded the pack from XWT and intend to watch the entire thing.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Rah said:


> Yet the first promo mentioned Ambrose being a reflection of himself; that he saw his own tortured soul whenever he looked at Dean. He may have said that "the system" created monsters like them, but he ended noting that he will psychologically tear Ambrose apart and that he best start running. Now he wants to help him?


The SD segment was actually the first Ambrose/Wyatt exchange I've watched since the interference at HIAC but this certainly would not surprise me if true. Why would Wyatt go on about 'psychologically tearing' Dean apart one night and mention how he wishes to help him another night? It comes off to me that people on this site always claim Bray's promos collectively make sense so I question how this makes any sense. Both promos certainly make sense on their own but collectively it just comes off as an idiotic inconsistency in a WWE storyline, caused by the 'E not really thinking thinking this feud through.

And I loved everything about the promo from SD! and am excited for what's to come of this feud, but I just struggle to see why Bray can't just be presented with material that does not contradict itself on every step.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Alex said:


> How would you guys rate RAW throughout 1996? I've just downloaded the pack from XWT and intend to watch the entire thing.


I did a write-up of 1996 a few months ago. This was Shawn Michaels' career year, as he was front and center throughout the product. The midcard is god awful outside of Austin. The tag team and IC title scene do not exist. But the main eventers on the show (Vader, Michaels, Undertaker, Owen, Bulldog, Mankind) all bring it. Bret takes a long break from WM to Survivor Series.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So _that_ segment funnyfaces talked about regarding Mizark's Sexual Chocolate character has to be the one with the ******, right? That was just shit and the fact they had him fall for it even though you can tell from the beginning it's a man makes it all that much worse. :lmao Even bigger lol @ "Momma Henry".

Royal Rumble 1999 is almost here, I haven't heard much good about it other than the I Quit match but I'll check out the entire card anyways. (except the women's title match)


----------



## Alex (Feb 27, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I did a write-up of 1996 a few months ago. This was Shawn Michaels' career year, as he was front and center throughout the product. The midcard is god awful outside of Austin. The tag team and IC title scene do not exist. But the main eventers on the show (Vader, Michaels, Undertaker, Owen, Bulldog, Mankind) all bring it. Bret takes a long break from WM to Survivor Series.


That's good news because I primarily downloaded it to see Michaels circa 96, I was hoping he'd be a focal point. 

Thanks for the insight, maybe you can point me towards that write-up if you don't mind.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Is XWT down for everybody else as wll?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aye, internal server error. Classics is fine though lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

It's down for me as I can't do torrents.  

Some more Danielson ROH Champion ratings:

Bryan Danielson w/ Samoa Joe vs KENTA & Naomichi Marufuji - Best In The World 2006 ******
Bryan Danielson w/ Delirious vs Jimmy Rave & Alex Shelley - Dragon Gate Challenge *****
Bryan Danielson vs Roderick Strong - Supercard of Honor *****1/2*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Totally forgot to update my sig with my BLOG POSTS~! last week . Just updated them for today, so there be 2 blog posts people might have missed on each of my sites! Yey! Wooo!

---------------------------------------------

The Quebecers Vs 123 Kid & Razor Ramon - WWF Tag Team Championship Match - WWF Raw 21/02/1994

Alright, I'm in the mood for some wrestling, but I just wanna watch something FUN. Wanted to watch Bret/Kid from Raw 94, so pulled out my best of Raw Season 1 and 2 set, and of course this was made when they stopped making inserts for DVD's so I have no idea what's on which disc .

Stuck in disc 1 and it wasn't on... but damn, there is a bunch of fun sounding shit I wanna sit through, this match being the first!

I like how Razor and Kid take out Polo early on after he interferes ONCE, to make sure he can't do it again. A huge Razor's edge on the floor, and he's carted away while the Quebecers struggle to gain the upper hand without their manager. It's not until DIESEL shows up to distract Razor (Diesel will be in HBK's corner at WM of course) that the Quebecers finally gain full control. Really like how they had the heel manager taken out to prevent the heels from cheating so successfully, and then added Diesel to the mix to allow the Quebecers to cheat and gain the advantage rather than them gaining it in a non cheating manner or something. Makes the heels look like cowardly cunts, and that's how they should look in this case.

Razor hitting the Fall Away Slam to Kid, sending him into one of the Quebecers was :mark:.

In the end, just as it seems like Razor and Kid are gonna become new tag champs, HBK shows up out of the crowd and screws them over!

Overall a fun, and really good tag. Which begs the question; how good were the Quebecers? This match, the one a month earlier against Kid and Jannetty (and the rematch the week after), the RR against Bret and Owen, and the Steiners when they won the tag belts in 93 (which I watched recently) are all pretty darn sweeeeet tag matches. Someone should go watch all their tags or something.


Yokozuna Vs Randy Savage - WWF Championship Match - WWF Raw 28/02/1994

This looks fun on paper. And guess what? It is fun! Savage tries to gain the upperhand against the monstrous dominant champion by attacking him before Yoko can take off his robe, but Yoko comes back and looks like a motherfucking badass killing Savage while still wearing his robe lol.

Savage takes on hell of a beating, and his selling is probably the highlight of the match because it's THAT fucking good. The spot where Yoko sets up Savage for a legdrop, and Savage moves seemed to be the typical comeback moment where the babyface fires up and gets a second wind. Nope, not here. Savage moves, leaps in the air like he's gonna make his epic comeback and... collapses to the mat again. Then when he does look to be in control of the match, he's still selling like a champ and looks absolutely exhausted.

Wish we'd at least got a proper finish with Yoko pinning Savage on his way to WM to fight 2 men, but they wanted to add more heat to the Savage/Crush feud by having Crush run in and costing Savage the belt.


IRS, Jeff Jarrett, Rick Martel, & The Headshrinkers Vs Tatanka, 123 Kid, Sparky Plugg, & The Smoking Gunns - WWF Raw 04/04/1994

Tis the 10 man tag that was supposed to take place at WM X, but the ladder match went too long and this match had to be cancelled.

Anyone else think Samu of the Headshrinkers looked like a fatter Sabu during this time? 

This match starts fun, and ends fun... but fuck me gets dull in the middle when Sparky Bob Holly just has a standing armbar on Martel for like a minute straight.

Doesn't last too long, but definitely should have happened at WM tbh. Fucking HBK needing to hog the spotlight... .


Jeff Jarrett Vs Razor Ramon - WWF Raw 25/04/1994

We all know about their matches from 1995 at the RR and WM, and the handicap match at IYH 1 (or 2? think it was 1), and they were all at least good. Interested to see how well they would do the previous year. Not sure if I have seen this match tbh. If I have, it would have been a LONG time ago, like, 8 years ago when I first got hold of Raw 1994!

:mark: this lives up to expectations based on their future matches! Jarrett looks great, Razor is superb with those fucking PUNCHES and the way he sells a sleeper (he doesn't just sit down like everyone else tends to, he's almost fucking laying down lol).

HBK shows up for some WM revenge, and ends up getting punched in the face a bunch of times before Diesel makes the save and yet ANOTHER match where the finish is a DQ lol. 3 out of 4 so far! And HBK was the cause of 2 of em!

Razor and Jarrett had some great chemistry!


The Quebecers Vs The Headshrinkers - WWF Tag Team Championship Match - WWF Raw 02/05/1994

Woo, another Quebecers match! They are great at stooging and bumping around for the babyfaces. They get sick of bumping around though and leave! The referee suddenly has the power to say that if the Quebecers don't come back to the ring before a 10 count, not only will they lose but they will lose the belts. WHAT POWER DO REFEREES ACTUALLY HAVE?!?! 

Fatu gets absolutely KILLED with 2 clotheslines at different times during this match. Amazing that he was still able to do that inside out bump even after he put on all that weight as Rikishi.

Quebecers are definitely up there as one of the better teams WWF had during the 90's. They've managed to have some great matches with a bunch of different teams all with different skill levels and styles. They have some super awesome double team moves too :mark:.

THE QUEBECERS FIGHT EACH OTHER~! A miscommunication spot leads to them seemingly breaking up, and the Headshrinkers are able to win the tag titles! Damn, guessing this was their last match together . LEAVE THE MEMORIES ALONE!


Yokozuna Vs Earthquake - Sumo Match - WWF Raw 16/05/1994

SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO~!

What can I say about this? It's better than Big Show/Akebono .

EARTHQUAKE WINS~! Which is good because he was an ACTUAL Sumo wrestler back in the day while Yoku is a fraud! 



In goes disc 2 today, and it's time to continue watching some more wrestling for FUN . Starting with the match I originally wanted to watch last night lol.


Bret Hart Vs 123 Kid - WWF Championship Match - WWF Raw 11/07/1994

Man oh man oh man OH MAN. This still rules as much as it has ever done. This is how a champion makes a somewhat unexpected challenger look worthy and look like a legitimate threat to any main eventer in the company.

Seems that opinions on Bret go up and down a lot these days with a lot of people. One minute he's one of the best ever, then the next he's dull and wrestles the same match. Kinda like how people sometimes go up and down on Flair too. As for me... I admit I used to think more highly of Bret a few years ago, but even today I still consider him to be one of the best and I enjoy the hell out of a great deal of his work. And matches like this really solidify my opinions of him being one of the best, because this match is tremendous. Nice little subtleties from Bret at the start as the Kid throws out some basic wrestling moves and catches the champion off guard, and the match just keeps building up from there. Kid is on the offence taking the fight to the champion, and Bret is almost scouting his opponent during the match, seeing what his game plan is and seeing what moves he's more likely to go back to so he can avoid/counter them.

The false finish with Kid getting his foot on the ropes and Bret telling the referee about it and getting the match restarted is a great way to show off Bret's character of being an honourable and fighting champion who doesn't want to take the cheap way out. He always felt he was a role model, and hell he WAS to a lot of people, so it's great that he was allowed to really show that in his matches etc.

Of course in the end it's Bret that comes out on top with the Sharpshooter, but Kid came out of this match looking far better than he did when he came in, and that's the sign of a great match and a great wrestler. Even people who might not think as much of Bret as they once did will likely think the world of this.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Been meaning to watch some WWF 1994 myself lately, dug out my Yearbook with these on, so ill make a start later:

1-2-3 Kid & Marty Jannetty vs. The Quebecers (RAW 1/10/94)
1-2-3 Kid & Marty Jannetty vs. Headshrinkers (WWF 1/11/94)
Bret Hart & Owen Hart vs. Rick & Scott Steiner (WWF 1/11/94)
1-2-3 Kid & Marty Jannetty vs. The Quebecers (MSG 1/17/94)
Bret Hart vs. Diesel (KOTR 6/16/94)
Owen Hart vs. 1-2-3 Kid (KOTR 6/16/94)
Bret Hart vs. Bob Backlund (SStars 7/30/94)
Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon (RAW 8/1/94)
Diesel vs. Razor Ramon (SSlam 8/29/94)
Shawn Michaels & Diesel vs. Razor Ramon & 1-2-3 Kid (Action Zone 10/30/94)
Bret Hart & Davey Boy Smith vs. Owen Hart & Jim Neidhart (RAW 11/7/94)
Razor Ramon, 1-2-3 Kid, Davey Boy Smith & Headshrinkers vs. Shawn Michaels, Diesel, Owen Hart, Jim Neidhart & Jeff Jarrett (Series 11/23/94)


Plus that Bret/Kid match too. 

The Bret/Kid match gets better with each viewing. I also love how aggressive Bret is with some of his offence, like with those European uppercuts. 

Oh, and Bret/Backlund from Superstars is excellent, kind of a forgotten gem really, and the heel turn is still fantastic imo, Bob portrayed it to perfection and started the great Mr.Backlund character.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> So _that_ segment funnyfaces talked about regarding Mizark's Sexual Chocolate character has to be the one with the ******, right? That was just shit and the fact they had him fall for it even though you can tell from the beginning it's a man makes it all that much worse. :lmao Even bigger lol @ "Momma Henry".
> 
> Royal Rumble 1999 is almost here, I haven't heard much good about it other than the I Quit match but I'll check out the entire card anyways. (except the women's title match)


Haha, that is the segment I'm talking about. The scary part is that it will only get worse from here with regards to the WWE's use of shemales in 1999. I think you might enjoy Royal Rumble 1999. Rock/Mankind obviously rules. The Royal Rumble match may have been pretty stupid, but there were lots of fun moments. Take note of the pop that Golga gets. Don't want the first four matches. Everyone in those matches either botch all their moves or put on headlocks. You should also anticipate this episode of RAW in February at the Skydome in Toronto. The atmosphere to that show felt like a Wrestlemania.

Yup. Punk/Jericho from Extreme Rules still rules. Jericho in particular did a good job of using old school heel tactics such as using the ref as a human shield, gouging Punk's eyes, and running away from Punk in order to evade the early rush of aggression of Punk. I also loved the integration of elements from the storyline into the match, even if non-fans would interpret them as being kinda "cheesy", but something like drowning Punk in alcohol separates this match from your typical WWE No DQ main event match. The way that both guys took offensive control was also done well, as one guy would take control because the other guy made a crucial mistake based on emotional decisions rather than just reversing some holds or having the babyface no-sell some moves and hulk up. A common theme in Punk's babyface matches that differentiate himself from other top faces in the WWE was how he would use his intelligence as a way to defeat an opponent rather than any physical attribute a la Batman, which is far more relatable than "fighting spirit" and the like. Really shocked too by how good Cole and Booker were on commentary. Instead of belligerent bickering, these two actually emphasized little details in the match that added to the story of the match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Diesel/Ramon from Summerslam 1994 is definitely underrated IMO. Watched it earlier, and yeah HBK interferes a bit, but it was expected with the story going in, but they both work well together.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Undertaker Vs Matt Hardy - WWE Raw June 17th 2002

Damn, was hoping this would get some half decent time to be a good match. Instead it's all over in about 4 minutes when Jeff shows up and drags the referee out of the ring to break up a pin. Undertaker still fights off both Hardy's with the help of RAVEN of all people lol, and for some reason the referee doesn't call for a DQ, allowing Taker to give Matt a Last Ride. Still fun for what it was, but disappointing given how great it could have been.

That said, it was just a way of advancing the awesome TV feud Taker was having with Jeff at the time. One of the things I think I miss the most about the brand split/single brand PPV's is how we got big TV feuds with guys who might not have been ready to main event a PPV, but could still give us a great rivalry and match with a main eventer on TV, and make that guy look better at the end of it all. 


Yokozuna, British Bulldog & Owen Hart Vs Diesel, Shawn Michaels & Undertaker - WWF Raw October 10th 1995

Damn, this could have easily main evented a PPV back in the day. We got that awesome 6 man International Incident match in 1996, but imagine this with some build and 25 minutes on PPV?

:lmao at Yoko taking a great bump from a double big boot by Taker and Diesel to the outside, then while selling being groggy, he smacks his head into the ring post too. On purpose of course, but it was still hilariously AWESOME.

Wish the match got more time, but for a TV match thrown together to help build up some matches for the upcoming PPV, it was still good and very fun. Also, :lmao at the match being used to seemingly get as many guys on the roster on TV as possible. Waylon Mercy shows up at ringside, then disappears and Dean Douglas shows up. Then he goes, and when the match ends (BULLDOG PINS THE WWF CHAMPION DIESEL!), Mabel comes down and he and Yoko CRUSH Undertaker (which actually breaks the Dead Man's face. Oh man, I just had a flashback of seeing this back in 1995!!!), and Douglas shows up again to get him some of Shawn while Bulldog continues to destroy Diesel! Man oh man, not only do the heels get the win, but they leave 3 of THE top guys in the company LAYING. Impressive!

Glad Mike brought this match up, otherwise I would have forgotten about it for years probably .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Id also like to say, after watching that Bret/Backlund match, and remembering the feud they had, it still really annoys me how Nash won the belt off Bob TBH.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well they wanted Diesel getting the belt, and it was still that old school mentality of not having a babyface beat another babyface for the belt (even though they'd done it before...). Do kinda wish Bret got the year long reign though lol . Well, over a year as I'd have kept it on him until WM 12 and drop it to Shawn still.


----------



## Morrison17 (Feb 16, 2013)

Dont want to make a separete thread just to ask, so

Is it known what Wyatt was saying at HiaC? Was it something turned backwards?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Trying to catch up on some WWF matches, watching Austin/Dude Love (Over The Edge).

Great buildup video, and lol at the intros for the stooges going on forever. 

:lol We're the crowd chanting "Vince is gay"?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Haha, that is the segment I'm talking about. The scary part is that it will only get worse from here with regards to the WWE's use of shemales in 1999. I think you might enjoy Royal Rumble 1999. Rock/Mankind obviously rules. The Royal Rumble match may have been pretty stupid, but there were lots of fun moments. Take note of the pop that Golga gets. Don't want the first four matches. Everyone in those matches either botch all their moves or put on headlocks. You should also anticipate this episode of RAW in February at the Skydome in Toronto. The atmosphere to that show felt like a Wrestlemania.


Damn, I'm not looking forward to seeing anymore ****** shit but I think I can handle it. That Mizark segment did its part in making me laugh even if it was because of its sheer awfulness.

Watching RR now and this Road Dogg/Boss Man match is boring as shit. At least I was provided with something to laugh about when my stream froze at this moment: :lmao



Spoiler: pic


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Morrison17 said:


> Dont want to make a separete thread just to ask, so
> 
> Is it known what Wyatt was saying at HiaC? Was it something turned backwards?


It was reported that it was an old Wyatt segment played backwards or something.

Quite frankly, it just sounds like a bunch of tongues and gibberish, imo.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

It was a long, drawn out message telling Cena to fuck off. :side:


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

*Survivor Series 2002
Triple Threat Match for the WWE Tag Team Championships*
Los Guerreros vs. Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit vs. Edge and Rey Mysterio (C)

***** *

Smackdown six at their best.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Royal Rumble 1999:*

Big Boss Man vs Road Dogg - ★★
Ken Shamrock vs Billy Gunn - ★½
X-Pac vs Gangrel - ★★¼
The Rock vs Mankind - ★★★★½
Royal Rumble - ★★½

A total one match show. The undercard is largely boring, the I Quit match is a classic and the Rumble itself is a mess. Too much focus on shit happening outside the ring, long periods involving complete jobbers and many times you get only one guy or nobody standing in the ring. Winner is also a joke although in all fairness, there was no good options. Austin had won two in a row and 3 would've been overkill, which left me with no option.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Urgh, what an awful RR event 1999 was lol. And yet, it's still only the 4th worst :lmao.

2006 Royal Rumble - 2
2012 Royal Rumble - 2
2010 Royal Rumble - 2.5
1999 Royal Rumble - 3.5


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Haven't seen all of 2010, but I can definitely agree with the other two being even worse. 2006 would've been better had it not been for the "I Quit" match helping 99 tremendously, though. 2012 was just a hopeless event with a godawful Rumble. When BIG SHOW is the final entrant (after having already been in a title match earlier), you know it's bad. :lol


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> Urgh, what an awful RR event 1999 was lol. And yet, it's still only the 4th worst :lmao.
> 
> 2006 Royal Rumble - 2
> 2012 Royal Rumble - 2
> ...


Damn, I would have thought the I Quit match would have been worth 5-7 Cal points on it's own....are you not very high on that match?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Road Dogg Vs The Big Bossman - DUD - 0
Billy Gunn Vs Ken Shamrock - * - 0
Gangrel Vs X-Pac - ** - 0.5
Sable Vs Luna - NO - -1
Mankind Vs The Rock - ***3/4 - 4
30 Man Royal Rumble Match - DUD - 0


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm surprised by the bumps Austin took in that Over the Edge match with Foley. The stooges taking those table bumps too lol.

Perfect example of how to get that sort of match right.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If only more of the Attitude Era was filled with matches like that and not... matches trying to be like that and totally fucking sucking .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> Road Dogg Vs The Big Bossman - DUD - 0
> Billy Gunn Vs Ken Shamrock - * - 0
> Gangrel Vs X-Pac - ** - 0.5
> Sable Vs Luna - NO - -1
> ...


Fuck me just look at that card fpalm



Brock said:


> I'm surprised by the bumps Austin took in that Over the Edge match with Foley. The stooges taking those table bumps too lol.
> 
> Perfect example of how to get that sort of match right.


Dude I thought the same thing last time I saw it, that bump he takes on the concrete was just gnarly. I think he just wanted to go all out as the Foley feud was the first program he had after winning the title at WM 14 and he needed it to be a success.



#ROOT said:


> If only more of the Attitude Era was filled with matches like that and not... matches trying to be like that and totally fucking sucking .


Couldn't have said it better, that match is everything that was good about the AE, the crazy booking done perfectly and really adding to the match. That match and the Rocky/Trips BL 2000 match were perfect AE style booked matches.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Say what you want about the 99 Rumble match, but the segment the night after with Austin in San Antonio with HBK was awesome.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Austin takes that backdrop on concrete/outside the ring plenty of times. Watching his matches around the time, he always does that in No DQ matches. Although I've noticed how he tries to make it as safe as possible by holding on to his opponent as he rotates and lands on his feet first in order to soften the bump. Can't say I blame him because these are some reckless bumps these guys take in that period. Chair headshots are traded like punches and I saw Rock hit Foley with a brutal one to the BACK of the head the week before Royal Rumble. Although it only touched the tip of his skull so it wasn't as bad as the one Triple H gave to Benoit in 2004 which always makes me cringe.

Network has the 1-2-3 Kid vs Bret match from 1994, so after hearing about all the hype, I'm gonna watch it now. Really wish they'd add the go home Raw to No Way Out 2000 to get the Texas 10-man tag in HD.

EDIT: ★★★★ for Bret vs 123 Kid. I was thinking for the first ten minutes "What's this all about?" because I wasn't seeing anything truly special to warrant everything I've heard about this match but as it went on, I love how Bret put Waltman over by making him look like his equal with all the nearfalls and the fight in him. This is textbook on how to put someone over without losing. Bret seems like a master at this, from this match to WM13 with Austin.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Haha, that is the segment I'm talking about.


What would you consider Dolph Ziggler's best match this year?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Superkick said:


> What would you consider Dolph Ziggler's best match this year?


Dolph Ziggler vs. Cesaro vs. The Miz (9/29): ****3/4


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

:damn That's quite a high rating. For me it's probably between the triple threat and his match w/ Cesaro at HIAC (they could have done more but I highly enjoyed the match nonetheless). There definitely are a couple alterations to my Top Ziggler matches list after this year, due entirely to his matches SummerSlam and on.



Top 15 Ziggler Matches from half a year ago said:


> Ziggler/Del Rio (Payback 2013)
> Ziggler/Bryan (Bragging Rights 2010)
> Ziggler/Punk (Raw 11/21/11)
> Ziggler/Mysterio (SummerSlam 2009)
> ...


Can't recall if there's anything else from this year worth adding.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

His match with Barrett for the IC title would probably go ****1/2 for me. Better than every Stan Hansen match I've ever seen.

Seriously though. That's my real choice for Ziggler MOTY. Chop off half a star


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Dolph Ziggler vs. Cesaro vs. The Miz (9/29): ****3/4


Is that an extra star or was that match really that good?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Dolph Ziggler vs. Cesaro vs. The Miz (9/29): ****3/4


I enjoyed it too, but is that a typo? :|

What is the general consensus of the Jericho v Angle v Benoit match from Wrestlemania 2000?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

funnyfaces1 said:


> His match with Barrett for the IC title would probably go ****1/2 for me. Better than every Stan Hansen match I've ever seen.
> 
> Seriously though. That's my real choice for Ziggler MOTY. Chop off half a star


:agree:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> His match with Barrett for the IC title would probably go ****1/2 for me. Better than every Stan Hansen match I've ever seen.
> 
> Seriously though. That's my real choice for Ziggler MOTY. Chop off half a star


I'm pretty sure Stan Hansen, right now at 60+ years old or whatever he is, could still have a better match than anything Barrett has ever done in his career. Hansen is a wrestling deity and don't you ever forget it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Finally watched last weeks Raw. Loved the ending, and i am really interested where they go with Orton from now on TBH. Is this a full face turn then? Good Raw IMO.

Kane. :lmao



> Ziggler/Mysterio (SummerSlam 2009)
> Ziggler/Cena (TLC 2012)
> Ziggler/Bryan (Raw 3/11/13)


Might give these a watch soon. Havn't seen the Mysterio match, and don't remember thr other Bryan one.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I'm pretty sure Stan Hansen, right now at 60+ years old or whatever he is, could still have a better match than anything Barrett has ever done in his career. Hansen is a wrestling deity and don't you ever forget it.


Whoosh

There was also a really good Ziggler/Cesaro match on Main Event last year worth checking out. I also love every single Ziggler/ADR match. Even the squashes. Man, Ziggler has quite a catalog considering that he hasn't been given many opportunities to main event.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hansen v. Ziggler would be really good because Hansen's offense is that intense that Ziggler's silly overselling would prove kind of useful.

I forgot what the original point of those two in the same sentence was but here is my two cents on something that had no other money put into it.


EDIT - 


ATF said:


> Let me know if you watched anything from 2011-onward so I can help you with that


missed this from a few days ago. I'll prooooobably not watch very much from 2013/2014 except for the heavy hitters that I haven't seen (stuff from Summerslam 13, Shield/Wyatts, Taker/Punk maybe?, etc). Those matches I've at least only been putting off for a year instead of four or five.  I still FULLY INTEND to do this and will probably write about some of the stuff. I'll probably start with WWE and WCW stuff from our polls + the Smarkschoice ones. 

Might have to re-watch some things, too. Been YEARS since I saw Michaels/Razor x2, Hart/Hart at WMX, the entire Savage/Steamboat feud, etc. OK, I'm actually kind of excited for this now.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Brock said:


> What is the general consensus of the Jericho v Angle v Benoit match from Wrestlemania 2000?


I'm pretty sure the general consensus is that it sucked


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

PGSucks said:


> I'm pretty sure the general consensus is that it sucked


Figures. Another one of those 'It looked good on paper'.

Ill watch it when i can be arsed to dig out my DVD.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> Figures. Another one of those 'It looked good on paper'.
> 
> Ill watch it when i can be arsed to dig out my DVD.



It's kind of a mess and it's certainly not a great match by any means but I don't think it flat out sucks either. There are a few cool moments but for the most part it's sort of 3 guys with a world of ability not knowing what the fuck they are doing (doubt any of them had ever been in a triple threat match up to that point tbh).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Briscoe Brothers vs. Kevin Steen & El Generico (Boston Street Fight) (ROH Death Before Dishonor V)* ****1/4

:lenny

:lol at the crowd shouting "Hit the ref" at the chair standoff part.

-------------------------

*Briscoe Brothers vs. Kevin Steen & El Generico (Ladder Match) (ROH Man Up 2007)* ****1/2

'War' is very appropriate.

First time viewing for me.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Remember Jericho/Angle/Benoit being way better than it was, after watching it again i thought it was good.
TLC 2 is still my favorite TLC match but holy sh*t watching it recently, at some point during the match everyone's out of the ring setting up tables and ladders.

Watched the Rusev/Swagger series and enjoyed it, couldn't find their Main Event match but found the rest. The Flag match and Submission match are the two I liked the most. Seriously where has "this" Swagger been since mid 2009 ?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So the Raw after Royal Rumble 1999 is the first time I'm seeing the show rated TV-14. Now I know where they made the transition in rating.

Awesome opening segment with HBK and Austin in Texas making the "deal" with Vince over WM and the I Quit match between Rock and HHH was okay. Rock looked kinda bad due to the fact that he was getting owned at the time he won the match, but I admit I didn't see the post-match swerve coming at all.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I really liked that I Quit match because it was a unique take on a gimmick match that I hate. Triple H looked like a sympathetic babyface for once and Rock is Rock. RAW for the next couple weeks get kinda slow until that Toronto show. I think you might also catch the famous Al Snow vs. Al Snow match soon. As the year goes on C2D, make sure not to skip Al Snow segments. His role in the Rock N Sock Connection stuff is really nice and you'll learn to like his antics.

This Sheamus/Rusev match is downright awful. Neither man looks like they want to wrestle.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Funny because there's only one more Raw prior to the Toronto show you're talking about. I like Al Snow, he's so over for such a stupid gimmick. What was up with the "shoots" he was cutting the year before about being given stupid gimmicks like the head? They went nowhere and he's pretty much having fun with it at this point. I know it's gonna get real silly when he starts feuding with Boss Man, I remember enjoying their match from SummerSlam when I watched it last year.

Time for Rock vs Mankind in an empty arena. Definitely more worthy of my time than Raw, that's for sure!

EDIT: ★★★★ for the empty arena match. Non-stop fun from the moment they exit the ring and I just couldn't have enough of this. Never mind what I said during HIAC weeks ago, with stuff like this, wrestling will always have a place in my world. 

Ladder match and St. Valentine's Day Massacre coming soon as well then the series will be complete! The chemistry these two have is amazing. Mind blowing that by SummerSlam, Rock was relegated to a joke match with Billy Gunn but unsurprisingly, the cream rises back to the top!


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Rusev, Harper, Kane, Henry and Rollins. Outside of Doinks/Mini Lawlers and Team Bischoff, that has to be one of the weirder Survivor Series assemblence of characters. Switch Trips in for Kane, and it would also be a really talented group.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

There's one more Rock/Mankind match in 1999 in December. Don't look it up because I don't want it spoiled for you. But despite being given midcard junk like Billy Gunn and Hardcore Holly, Rock somehow makes these things into main event programs. Actually now that I look back at my notes, there was another Rock/Mankind match in 3/22 that was listworthy. There was also a Rock/Gunn match that I apparently liked. This is odd.

So how will they ruin Luke Harper?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just watched the two Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Cody Rhodes & Goldust matches (Battleground and Raw 10.14.2013).

Still love them both.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Can't believe they're including the Sheamus-Rusev and Show-Henry feuds in the Cena-Authority match, the undercard is going to be incredibly weak.

Why not do the actual Authority, HHH, Rollins, Kane and Orton(turn him here) v Cena, Ryback, Ziggler and Swagger or something like that?

That way you can have along with Ambrose-Wyatt, Sheamus-Rusev and Show-Henry to add a lot more depth to the card. What will we get now? Rose v The Bunny? Miz/Mizdow/Hornswaggle V Los Matadores? A Rowan squash? 

Hope they prove me wrong but this could be a WOATC.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It will not be WOATC.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm pretty excited for the SVS match thanks to Rusev, Harper, Ziggler & possibly Ryback being involved. Despite being directionless, Sheamus should be good in it too. Henry and Show, depending on how they're booked have potential too.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Harper vs Ziggler sounds groovy


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

The thought of Ziggler bumping for Harper's big boot and discus lariot :banderas


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Hopefully Harper vs. Ziggler happens at TLC.

But it's incredibly stupid to have Rusev and Sheamus in there. While it's not too common, the roster is so weak that they should have just done a 4-on-4 match and have Rusev/Sheamus in their own match to bolster the under card. It's incredibly weak and further exposes the depth of the roster as it is.

Of course, if WWE didn't fuck up the likes of Kingston, Big E, Swagger, Cesaro, etc., they'd have a much easier time filling the card.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

NEW blog updates in my sig .

SVS elimination tag could be a ton of fun given the talent involved. Just depends on how they book it. Odds of team Cena all being eliminated early except for Cena who has to overcome all the odds and beats everyone?  Orton might help right at the end. But CENA IS WINNING no doubt.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Raw last night was a lot of fun live. You have to respect Cena's pandering. He's a master at that shit and it works like a damn charm every time. Rusev/Seamus was stiff as holy hell. The two of them were pelting the life out of each other out there. MOTN for me. There was a beach ball floating around during Cena/Ryback. The match was that good.... :side: Also Mercury took an EPIC KO punch from Show. Was pretty sweet. Cool show. Survivor Series is looking good. I don't really care what the undercard is because it's 90% likely I won't even watch it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I wonder how they'll eliminate Rusev from the SS tag (if they do). He still hasn't been beaten yet, has he? The SS match could be a nice feud advancer. Hell call me crazy but I'd probably have Show/Henry and Sheamus/Rusev all disqualified , putting their own feuds over the 'Authority's' and leaving the rest to actually give a shit.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

They could do the same thing they did with Umaga back then and have himself DQ'd.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Silly people. Cena will eliminate him. With ease might I add. Either that or he eats 4 or 5 finishers and goes out looking as strong as he possibly can...with Cena getting the pin of course.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Steph didn't exactly address the two in the nicest way, especially Lana. Rusev will walk out on them, probably avoiding a tag in to face Sheamus toward the start.

Too bad the UK has become synonymous with worst crowd of the year but Cena handled it well. Everybody else? Not so much. Kinda fun Raw, regardless, and I'm digging this story. Keeping all their high profile feuds in one basket means they have to put emphasis on other wrestlers we want to see, so that's a good thing. We'll probably get a return. When's Barrett coming back? Here's hoping for TITUS to crush fools.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Starbuck said:


> Silly people. Cena will eliminate him. With ease might I add. Either that or he eats 4 or 5 finishers and goes out looking as strong as he possibly can...with Cena getting the pin of course.


If it does happen like that, it's dumb that the first time Rusev is pinned is in a big multi-man match.

I see him just walking out. It still doesn't make sense to me as to why Rusev would team up with a bunch of Americans just because he got a US Title match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Died a tiny bit inside when Henry and Rusev were just chillin' next to each other in the locker room.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Spoiler: Smackdown spoiler



Ziggler V Cesaro V Kidd in a 3 way elimination match was described as a genuine MOTYC.


----------



## JamesK (Oct 7, 2012)

I wanted to watch a complete random PPV in the Network using randomppv.info and i got Bragging Rights 2010...

It was a fun show i didn't remember it so well so here is my match ratings..

*Champion vs Champion
Daniel Bryan vs Dolph Ziggler – ****

WWE Tag Team Championship Match
Drew McIntyre & Cody Rhodes vs John Cena & David Otunga – **1/2

Ted DiBiase vs Goldust – **3/4

Divas Championship Match
Layla vs Natalya – *3/4

Buried Alive Match for the World Heavyweight Championship
Kane vs The Undertaker – ***

7-on-7 RAW vs SmackDown Bragging Rights Elimination Match
The Miz, R-Truth, John Morrison, Santino Marella, Sheamus, CM Punk & Ezekiel Jackson vs Big Show, Rey Mysterio, Jack Swagger, Alberto Del Rio, Edge, Tyler Reks & Kofi Kingston – ***1/4

WWE Championship Match
Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett – ***1/4
*


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Smackdown has been pretty good ever since they got the NXT guys to work on it. There's actually more storyline progression on Smackdown these days than on RAW. And the show is focused on Dean Ambrose, which is never a bad thing.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Guys, you should check out the Kidd/Zayn match from last night's main event. ***1/2 for it, nice little match


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Start of the Flair/Funk feud:



What were the major WWF storylines going into the start of 2001? Recently got Raw 2001 and looking to get Smackdown soon too, just wondered what the angles were at the end of 2000.

Might take a break from Nitro and finally start WWF 2001 soon.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Angle/HHH for the WWF Title, with Stephanie, Vince and Trish thrown into the mix.
Benoit/Jericho for the IC title :mark:.
E&C/Dudleys for the tag belts, and no doubt those Hardy Boys will show up too .
Chyna/RTC feud, with Billy Gunn in the mix as well I think.
And then general RR build with all the main event guys trying to gain the upperhand in the weeks leading up to the match.

So yeah, basically everything leading up to the 2001 RR .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks Cal.  I know the first Raw of the year opens up with Steph I think forcing Taker to be involved in a handicap match of some sorts.

I'm kinda going backwards lol, but I've been wanting to go through 2001 for ages now tbh.

I may try and get 2000 sometime next year lol.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

Nah, the first RAW of '01 had Steph making Austin be a beer vendor! Ahh, early 2001. The closest William Regal ever got to a main event push. Those were the days.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The closest Regal got to a main event push was in 2008, and in typical Regal fashion, he blew it.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Typical Regal fashion?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Flux said:


> Typical Regal fashion?


Should have embraced straight edge when he could've.


----------



## Rick Sanchez (Dec 30, 2012)

Seeing as how Rusev is feuding with Sheamus and they've built him up too long to make him eat a pin in a tag match, Rusev and Sheamus will probably brawl outside and get counted out.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

Cena probably can't afford to be pinned either. Ryback too if he's going to be in the match. Harper because it'll probably be his new character's in-ring debut. It's going to be a mess.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Flux said:


> Typical Regal fashion?


I'm not sure what exactly happened in 2008 but Regal has a bad history with drugs. They damn near killed him on several occasions. He's clean now though and has been for several years thank god. My guess is Regal probably failed a drug test or showed up loaded in 2008.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yep, Regal was in line for a push in 2008 (he already won the IC title + KOTR), but failed a Wellness thing.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Finlay was also slated for a WHC run in 2006, but Stephanie did a last minute veto.

Apparently NXT this week has two really good matches.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The ECW Exposed show is a fun way to spend 50 minutes (streamed it midway through my cardio session this morning). The advertising during Raw I felt was a little too clickbait in that they hyped it around the statute of limitations having come to a close yet they didn't once get "extreme" in their coverage. Rather it was a condensed look into certain aspects of ECW and a highlight reel of what made ECW so different and great. Great means for introducing the show to new viewers but those having grown up on the product, or know its history, probably won't find much of anything in it (at the very least anything new). Still, Heyman's a character that electrifies anything he touches and every reason why I kept watching. You'll be surprised as to who he puts up as current stars he'd love to have had in ECW, too. 


Aside: 9 years ago today Eddie passed.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Today being that day, I'm going to try and find time later and watch some Eddie Guerrero matches off Will's massive comp.

Bout damn time for me.

Eddie/Bret? Thankyou WCW. 

We never got Bret/Jericho either, not even on Thunder. At least we got a couple of good matches from Bret/Benoit. A hidden gem on Nitro in 98, and the Nitro 99 one. Never seen the Mayhem match tbh I don't think.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Yep need to check out this week's NXT. Apparently, Itami/Balor vs Kidd/Gabriel and Zayn vs Neville were really good.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Well fuck, totally didn't realize it was November 13. RIP Eddie, this shit is always so incredibly sad. He was far too young.

Might have to watch Eddie/Brock, seeing Eddie win the title always puts a smile on my face.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

"Eddie cheated with that move! EDDIE CHEATED!" is one of my favorite commentary lines of all time. Viva La Raza. RIP Eddie.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Being 'Eddie day', watched these today: Might watch a few 'Greatest Hits' matches later.

Eddie Guerrero vs. Low-Ki (ICW 11/30/01)
Eddie Guerrero vs. Super Crazy (ROH 2/23/02)
Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. CM Punk (IWA-MS 3/1/02)
Eddie Guerrero vs. CM Punk (IWA-MS 3/2/02)
Eddie Guerrero vs. The Rock (RAW 7/22/02)
Eddie Guerrero vs. Edge (Unforgiven 9/22/02)
Eddie Guerrero vs. Edge (No DQ) (SD! 9/26/02)

I know alot of people have seen it, but i still find the Punk/Rey/Eddie match underrated TBH.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Please watch the Eddy AAA match I asked you to up.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I think I watched that match a while ago. I don't remember thinking it was anything too amazing and mostly just remember thinking it was really cool to see him doing an indy show like that, same goes for his match in ROH. 

Watching his DVD sets really made me appreciate how great he really was. His feud with JBL is just the best though. I know that their first match is the one that gets all the praise but their series of matches as whole is just amazing, I loved the Bullrope and Cage match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Will do. I'll watch that next before switching to some other random stuff.

*Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit (SD! 9/26/02)*

Now this is a triple threat that is underrated IMO. Excellent stuff for the 10 or so minutes it got. Ill upload it next week, can't see it online.

EDIT: Here it is:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Heartwarming segment. Eddie was supposed to be a heel at the time, but nobody wanted to boo him. It all finally culminated here when Smackdown was in El Paso and Eddie got the loudest pop of 2003. The match that Cena and Eddie had later that night was also really good.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It's funny because Eddie himself wanted to be heel and said that he has no choice because the fans always cheer him. Which makes me think, why in the hell do they have to turn cool heels face by stripping them of everything that people like about them? There's a reason why there have barely been any successful faces in the past few years considering their coolness factor is always taken away as soon as the fans warm up to them. You'd think they would learn after it happened with Cena but no, let's turn everyone into vanilla smiley bores and have them bulldoze through every opponent because that's what draws money! Hope to God they leave Orton as he is when he returns as a face.

Gonna binge watch some Eddie matches on the Network in remembrance of the legend. Specially some 2003 matches like the ones against Team Angle since it's been so long since I last saw them.

Also have St. Valentine Day's Massacre on tap for the night.

Haven't posted here in a few days but yesterday I took it upon myself to watch a couple of SummerSlam 94 matches, specifically Razor/Diesel which was okay and Undertaker/Underfaker which is WORSE than Taker/Boss Man - I'm serious! It's about 10 minutes yet feels like 30.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Still one of the best Intercontinental matches from the company. On SD too. Rey was supposed to carry the title to Bragging Rights, but failed the wellness i believe. Ill have to watch Ziggler/Rey from Summerslam soon.

What was the date of that Eddie/Cena promo?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Trying to get a video edited tonight, but once it's done I'm also gonna watch some classic EDDIE matches. Man, 9 years. Insane. Still remember when I found out .


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Choke2Death said:


> It's funny because Eddie himself wanted to be heel and said that he has no choice because the fans always cheer him. Which makes me think, why in the hell do they have to turn cool heels face by stripping them of everything that people like about them? There's a reason why there have barely been any successful faces in the past few years considering their coolness factor is always taken away as soon as the fans warm up to them. You'd think they would learn after it happened with Cena but no, let's turn everyone into vanilla smiley bores and have them bulldoze through every opponent because that's what draws money! Hope to God they leave Orton as he is when he returns as a face.
> 
> Gonna binge watch some Eddie matches on the Network in remembrance of the legend. Specially some 2003 matches like the ones against Team Angle since it's been so long since I last saw them.
> 
> ...


If there's one thing that I could do to improve the WWE that would be it. I hear people complaining that faces never get cheered but that's because babyfaces in the WWE are all the same character. They're either really made or really happy and that's just not something the average fan relates to. Even someone like CM Punk wasn't immune to it. It's really strange how they manage to make you not like the people that you're supposed to like.

That's part of why I think Eddie is so great. He did the same things and it was just his attitude and demeanor that let you tell if he was a face or a heel. If heel Eddie cheats in a match he just has this scum bag look on his face and you just feel like he can't stand his opponents or the crowd. But then he's a face and does the same thing but does it with a mischievous grin on his face and he gets cheered for it. I think that's the ultimate sign of greatness really. Being able to do 1 thing and get fans to cheer you or boo you based on mostly demeanor and facial expressions.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Started watching 2002 the other day and it was very, very fun. First Smackdown of the year was a blast and it showed how much different the scripting was like.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Putting my finishing touches on the most unprecedented project ever seen in the IWC. This will change the game.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

It better be about Khali. I don't forget.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I hope it's something totally out there like Top 50 Knee Drops.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Wouldn't that basically be a top 50 Harley Race list?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

TaylorFitz said:


> If there's one thing that I could do to improve the WWE that would be it. I hear people complaining that faces never get cheered but that's because babyfaces in the WWE are all the same character. They're either really made or really happy and that's just not something the average fan relates to. Even someone like CM Punk wasn't immune to it. It's really strange how they manage to make you not like the people that you're supposed to like.
> 
> That's part of why I think Eddie is so great. He did the same things and it was just his attitude and demeanor that let you tell if he was a face or a heel. If heel Eddie cheats in a match he just has this scum bag look on his face and you just feel like he can't stand his opponents or the crowd. But then he's a face and does the same thing but does it with a mischievous grin on his face and he gets cheered for it. I think that's the ultimate sign of greatness really. Being able to do 1 thing and get fans to cheer you or boo you based on mostly demeanor and facial expressions.



I was just thinking about that yesterday. I watched a bunch of Eddies greatest matches, and 2 matches that I watched back to back really grabbed my attention. They were the Eddie/Tajiri vs Team Angle 5/22/03 tag and the classic Eddie/Rey 6/23/05 SD match. In the tag bout, Eddie is just cheating up a storm and the fans are LOVING IT. He was getting cheered like crazy because of the way he was cheating, he was letting the crowd in on his little secret. Then in the Eddie/Rey match, Eddie is again cheating left and right, just 2 years later, and fans were booing the absolute shit out of him, in ARIZONA of all places, a place with a massive Latino-American population. For Eddie to get boo'd out of the building in Arizona, you know he has to be doing something great, especially when he was essentially doing the exact same thing that got him cheered just a year or so earlier. For me, I think it's all in the eyes. Eddies eyes when he's a baby face make him look like the nicest, happiest guy you'll ever meet. He looks like he could be everyone's best friend. Then when he comes out as a heel in 2005, his eyes look like they are pure evil. They are sunk in his head and he has this look like he might be possessed by a demon. I've never seen anything like it.

Yep, that Eddy Guerrero sure was great. 


Yeah1993 said:


> I hope it's something totally out there like Top 50 Knee Drops.


I'd like to see a "50 Greatest Mullets in Wrestling History" list, prominently featuring Eddy, Magnum TA, and that glorious mullet 1-2-3 Kid had back in 1994.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Speaking of bollocks top whatevers, WWE.com has put out a top 100 list of the best matches ever.

I can't quite tell you what anything past #100 is, because that involves clicking through the article 100 times and fuck that but it has a link to the video on the network attached with a write-up of each.


EDIT: Khali got canned.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I've been doing my best to click past every page and list has some laughable inclusions or placements. Cal wont be happy with HBK/Taker inside HIAC being #37 (WM25 is #1, though) and we can all laugh at Bret/HBK ironman making #10. They also put Brock vs Angle from WM19 at #42.

I'm glad the first MITB made the list (at #75 or something I think) and #21 is Orton vs Foley. 

List is obviously super flawed because not only are Benoit matches automatically disqualified (except when they can avoid mentioning him, like the MITB match) but not only that, they also include matches based on the fact they are available on the Network, so TV matches from the previous decade are largely absent simply because the Network doesn't have them.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I just skipped to page 99, and the top 3 are Savage/Steamboat WM 3, Austin/Bret WM 13, and Taker/HBK WM 25 at #1.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching The Shield vs The Wyatts (WWE Main Event). First time viewing. 

Loved Ambrose' selling in this one, took a big boot by Harper like a boss. Started a tad slower paced that EC, but soon picked up. 

Might dig out the Raw match next.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Rah said:


> Speaking of bollocks top whatevers, WWE.com has put out a top 100 list of the best matches ever.
> 
> I can't quite tell you what anything past #100 is, because that involves clicking through the article 100 times and fuck that but it has a link to the video on the network attached with a write-up of each.
> 
> ...


I got bored and actually clicked through all 100 videos. Honestly, it's not the worst list ever. The #1 match is Taker/HBK WM 25, #2 is Bret/Austin WM 13, and #3 is Flair/Steamboat 2/3 Falls. The order of the matches isn't great (Dude Love/Austin OTE 98' in the 80's???) but overall I'd say about 75% of the matches they listed deserve to be atleast somewhere in a Top 100 matches on the Network list. Obviously they can't include a lot of TV matches and no Benoit matches, but they do a reasonable job. Southern Boys/Midnight Express and Fantastics/Midnight Express are on there, as are the 91' & 92' WarGames matches. All 3 of the 1989 Flair/Steamboat trilogy are on there. This isn't nearly as awful as the usual lists wwe.com does. Although they have HBK/Taker HiaC in the 30's which is just silly. Like I said, ignore the order and it's not so bad.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Are the Zayn/Cesaro WWE matches more regarded than the Generico/Castiognoli matches?

What was their best match together outside of WWE.


----------



## TheChoppingMachine (Mar 25, 2014)

Their last one (Arrival) is the best one IMO.
PWG Kurt RussellReunion II is their big match in indy. You should watch their BOLA 2011 match too. Or the entire event... THIS SHOW :zayn3


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks. I've seen the Kurt Russell Reunion II match, ill dig out the BOLA match the weekend. 

I'll watch Arrival in abit.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

HBK-Taker would be around that for me too. It's great, like really great, but I never got the hype to suggest it being the best match of all time. Much prefer both Wrestlemania matches.

What's the match(es) you dont quite get the hype for? Benoit-Jericho ladder match and Foley-Orton are the other two for me. Jericho is my favourite of all time and Benoit's Benoit so that's surprising. Orton-Foley is good but not great IMO, it made Orton but I dont think the actual match is anything special.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'll be honest - as "technically perfect" as it may be, I am too not AS marveled by the Benoit/Y2J Ladder match as most people here. It's fucking amazing, yeah, but I'd go ****1/2 tops where most people seem to hit near or THE full five.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

Where was HBK/Angle? Don't feel like clicking through.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

@Zep Claudio/Generico also had a really good match in the ROH Race to the Top tournament finals in 2007, although not as great as their PWG encounters IMO. Still worth seeking out if you can, though.

Edit: I wouldn't even give Benoit/Jericho **** 1/2. I MUCH MUCH MUCH prefer Jomo/Sheamus and I'd give that four and a half. Benoit/Jericho would probably get **** from me. Then again, I'm not a fan of the gimmick at all besides those two matches and MITB I.


----------



## TheChoppingMachine (Mar 25, 2014)

#1 The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels: The 25th Anniversary of WrestleMania
#2 Bret Hart vs. "Stone Cold" Steve Austin – Submission Match: WrestleMania 13
#3 Randy Savage vs. Ricky Steamboat – Intercontinental Championship Match: WrestleMania III
#4 Ricky Steamboat vs. Ric Flair – NWA World Heavyweight Championship 2-out-of-3 Falls Match: Clash of the Champions VI: Ragin’ Cajun, April 2, 1989
#5 Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio – Cruiserweight Championship Mask vs. Title Match: Halloween Havoc 1997
#6 The Ultimate Warrior vs. Randy Savage – Retirement Match: WrestleMania VII
#7 Bret Hart vs. The British Bulldog – Intercontinental Championship Match: SummerSlam 1992
#8 The Dudley Boyz vs. The Hardy Boyz vs. Edge & Christian – World Tag Team Championship TLC Match: WrestleMania X-Seven
#9 John Cena vs. CM Punk – WWE Championship Match: Money in the Bank 2011
#10 Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels – WWE Championship 60-Minute WWE Iron Man Match: WrestleMania XII

For a WWE Top it's not that bad.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Flux said:


> @Zep Claudio/Generico also had a really good match in the ROH Race to the Top tournament finals in 2007, although not as great as their PWG encounters IMO. Still worth seeking out if you can, though.
> 
> Edit: I wouldn't even give Benoit/Jericho **** 1/2. I MUCH MUCH MUCH prefer Jomo/Sheamus and I'd give that four and a half. Benoit/Jericho would probably get **** from me. Then again, I'm not a fan of the gimmick at all besides those two matches and MITB I.


Ok thanks mate.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I went through the whole list. They at least surprised me with some awesome WCW matches but I don't expect these lists to be anything I agree with. Hell, let's face it, if any of us made a list for a random site and we didn't know each other, the rest would shit ALL over said list. I mean sometimes I shit on it to their face because fuck Seabs and why DX/Legacy > Eddie/Rey, but you know....um...."fuck Seabs" is how I'll finish this setence. Wow, I thought I'd gotten over it. Where did that come from? This 80s poll cannot happen.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Wouldn't that basically be a top 50 Harley Race list?


Joe's knee drop from the 2005 AJ match would be a top ten contender.



Crummy97 said:


> Where was HBK/Angle? Don't feel like clicking through.


Mania 21 was at #14.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Sami Zayn vs Cesaro (NXT Arrival) *****1/2 *

Would it be preposterous to maybe go a tad higher on that rating? I loved it more than I did the first time. Truly wonderful match.

That final Nuetralizer. :lenny

I'll dig out the BOLA match the weekend to watch. I'll try and upload it next week if anyone wants it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Ryan193 said:


> HBK-Taker would be around that for me too. It's great, like really great, but I never got the hype to suggest it being the best match of all time. Much prefer both Wrestlemania matches.
> 
> What's the match(es) you dont quite get the hype for? Benoit-Jericho ladder match and Foley-Orton are the other two for me. Jericho is my favourite of all time and Benoit's Benoit so that's surprising. Orton-Foley is good but not great IMO, it made Orton but I dont think the actual match is anything special.



You're barking up the wrong tree for me picking those two matches, amigo. I have both Orton/Foley BL and Jericho/Benoit RR at the full *****. Two of the 15 best matches in company history for my money. Orton/Foley is probably one of the most exciting, bloody, and brutal matches from bell to bell that WWE has ever put on. It's one of my favorite go to matches when I can't think of anything to watch, if only for that amazing expression Orton makes when he realizes thumbtacks have just been lodged squarely in his butt hole. That's what he says when discussing that match anyway, that when he sat up after taking the back bump into the tacks that a few tacks stuck straight in his butt hole and that's what caused the face of all faces. He's one tough dude to continue a match after that kind of ordeal. Benoit/Jericho is the ladder match ideal for me, I'm not a fan of the big spots and hard crash and burn style, I'm more a fan when two guys use the ladder to just beat each other senseless, and that has never been done better than in that 2001 RR match IMO.

Let's see, which widely praised matches am I not nearly as high on as everyone else? Um, that's a tough one as I'm not a super picky guy and can usually find atleast SOME enjoyment in the widely praised classics everyone loves. Well, of course I hate HBK/Hart WM 12, hate Cena/Edge Unforgiven 06' and BL 09', don't really like Jericho/Cena SVS 08' (used to love it but it went way down for me on a rewatch)....uh I don't like HBK/Trips Badd Blood 2004 and RR 04'....I feel like I generally like most of the popular stuff in here. Guess I'm not very original, or I'm just not as picky as you fucks


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> You're barking up the wrong tree for me picking those two matches, amigo. I have both Orton/Foley BL and Jericho/Benoit RR at the full *****. Two of the 15 best matches in company history for my money. Orton/Foley is probably one of the most exciting, bloody, and brutal matches from bell to bell that WWE has ever put on. It's one of my favorite go to matches when I can't think of anything to watch, if only for that amazing expression Orton makes when he realizes thumbtacks have just been lodged squarely in his butt hole. That's what he says when discussing that match anyway, that when he sat up after taking the back bump into the tacks that a few tacks stuck straight in his butt hole and that's what caused the face of all faces. He's one tough dude to continue a match after that kind of ordeal. Benoit/Jericho is the ladder match ideal for me, I'm not a fan of the big spots and hard crash and burn style, I'm more a fan when two guys use the ladder to just beat each other senseless, and that has never been done better than in that 2001 RR match IMO.
> 
> Let's see, which widely praised matches am I not nearly as high on as everyone else? Um, that's a tough one as I'm not a super picky guy and can usually find atleast SOME enjoyment in the widely praised classics everyone loves. Well, of course I hate HBK/Hart WM 12, hate Cena/Edge Unforgiven 06' and BL 09', don't really like Jericho/Cena SVS 08' (used to love it but it went way down for me on a rewatch)....uh I don't like HBK/Trips Badd Blood 2004 and RR 04'....I feel like I generally like most of the popular stuff in here. Guess I'm not very original, or I'm just not as picky as you fucks


For the most part I'm a fan spotfests. Obviously there's a limit on how dumb people can get but it takes a lot to get to that point for me haha. Take Wyatt-Cena Payback for example, the selling was terrible and it made absolutely no sense but I love that match and have it at ****1/2.

Jericho-Cena SVS is on my to watch list, love both guys but never got round to watching it. I like Cena-Edge Unforgiven but again it's not 'great'. Haven't seen BL '09 and will never watch HBK-Bret ironman. Never been a big fan of the HHH-HBK matches either. 

I like to think I'm not picky but maybe I am more than I thought :lol:


----------



## TheChoppingMachine (Mar 25, 2014)

Yeah1993 said:


> Joe's knee drop from the 2005 AJ match would be a top ten contender.


As is the Misawa one in his match against Akiyama in 2000.



Brock said:


> Sami Zayn vs Cesaro (NXT Arrival) *****1/2 *
> 
> Would it be preposterous to maybe go a tad higher on that rating? I loved it more than I did the first time. Truly wonderful match.
> 
> That final Nuetralizer. :lent


I have it as the same rating.
Top 3 this year in the E.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*St. Valentine Day's Massacre:*

Goldust vs Bluedust - 0
Bob Holly vs Al Snow - ★★★
Owen Hart & Jeff Jarrett vs D'Lo Brown & Mark Henry - ★★
Kane & Chyna vs Triple H & X-Pac - ★★¼
Mankind vs The Rock - ★★★¾
Stone Cold vs Vince McMahon - ★★★¼

Mostly fun PPV. LMS match was great although I'm not sure how I feel about Rock starting to sing in the middle of such an intense, physical contest. But I guess it can be explained away by his arrogance and him getting too confident when he thought he had it won. Main event was fun for other reasons than the actual match and Big Show's appearance was lol-worthy. Also Michael Cole can't go away soon enough, plz save us JR!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Kidd/Cesaro/Ziggler from Smackdown was pretty damn fun.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> *St. Valentine Day's Massacre:*
> 
> Goldust vs Bluedust - 0
> Bob Holly vs Al Snow - ★★★
> ...


I liked Holly and Snow going outside to the river lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingLobos said:


> I liked Holly and Snow going outside to the river lol.


Yeah, the hardcore title is fun stuff. It also shows why the AE can't be replicated again because these guys hit each other with objects in the head like no tomorrow. I thought it was nuts earlier this year when Orton walked outside the arena in the cold in his wrestling attire to escape in a car from Cena, but these guys actually spend extended amount of time outdoors while it's super cold and even snowing at times. In Cole's defense, I lol'd @ him saying Holly is trying to erase the Sparky Plugg association by winning the belt.

Also forgot to mention that it was hilarious when Lawler picked up on Cole's botched call as Mankind tried to imitate the People's Elbow. "Did you just say Mister Elbow?" :lol Maybe I'm getting too allergic to hearing him, but Cole's commentary when Big Show appears is nearly as bad as "it's.... christian".


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

With Big Show they try and make him seem like a big deal and put him in the main event storyline from here on out and it just doesn't work. The fans don't respond to him at all basically. They smark him out and call him Giant, and the Rock shits all over him in promos and segments. It's hilarious to see how much of a fail he is. Obviously he was a pet favorite of Vince McMahon just for his sheer size and claiming to steal him from WCW. And then the awful WM match with Mankind was just such a shame for Mick having to work with him after a great year.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> Sami Zayn vs Cesaro (NXT Arrival) *****1/2 *
> 
> Would it be preposterous to maybe go a tad higher on that rating? I loved it more than I did the first time. Truly wonderful match.
> 
> ...


Nah no way, it's not preposterous at all. I gave it ****3/4 and have it just narrowly edging out Wyatt's/Shield EC as my 2014 MotY. Seriously doubt it's getting topped for the year, but you never know. I will say that man, as much as I love Cesaro, it would have been really nice to see Sami finally get his win. He turned in a truly amazing baby face performance, he had the entire crowd 100% behind him, and after that kickout on 1 I thought it would be great for him to really fire up and hit Cesaro with something big and steal a pinfall. Oh well. That's just nitpicking, it was an unbelievable match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Big Show's debut at that PPV has to be the second worst of them all behind Shockmaster. Here you have a big time WCW main eventer, and the first thing he does is screw up everything. Terrible booking. I don't think Big Show ever recovered from that for the rest of his career, because from that point onward he was no longer the one of a kind giant, and instead he felt like a bumbling oaf. On top of that, Big Show turns face and heel every week for the next year, and the only thing stopping him from turning even more was that he got so fat that he was demoted to developmental. And the nail in the coffin was Rock's hilarious promos on Big Show :lmao

Ziggler/Kidd/Cesaro was really good. I actually liked it more than Goto/Ishii from last week. A lot more.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

I was initially somewhat disappointed by Ziggler/Kidd/Cesaro but on second watch I really liked it. Pls have these three go at it on PPV.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> And the nail in the coffin was Rock's hilarious promos on Big Show :lmao


Is that the one that goes "And then his crappy music hits... WELL IT'S THE BIG SLOOOOOOOW!" before he mocks the hand raise taunt for the chokeslam? :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It looks like Dolph is gonna drop the title at TLC to Harper, but I really want Ziggler's reign to go on until Mania. Let him have a feud with Tyson Kidd, then Mark Henry, then give him a good showing at the Rumble where he ends up in the Final Four. Ziggler's reign so far has been really good. Lots of good matches, three good feuds, always on television and now in the main event, very over, and Ziggler actually feels like he cares about the championship. Most importantly though, people care about wins and losses in a Ziggler match. That is a quality that not many people have in today's wrestling world.



Choke2Death said:


> Is that the one that goes "And then his crappy music hits... WELL IT'S THE BIG SLOOOOOOOW!" before he mocks the hand raise taunt for the chokeslam? :lmao


I think I'm thinking about this one he did after the Royal Rumble where Rock makes fun of Big Show whining about the controversial finish at the Rumble. Or I'm thinking of Rock making fun of Big Show's haircut :lol. All of those Rock promos at the time were too funny. And that sound that Rock would make whenever he mocked Big Show's scream :lmao


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> It looks like Dolph is gonna drop the title at TLC to Harper, but I really want Ziggler's reign to go on until Mania. Let him have a feud with Tyson Kidd, then Mark Henry, then give him a good showing at the Rumble where he ends up in the Final Four. Ziggler's reign so far has been really good. Lots of good matches, three good feuds, always on television and now in the main event, very over, and Ziggler actually feels like he cares about the championship. Most importantly though, people care about wins and losses in a Ziggler match. That is a quality that not many people have in today's wrestling world.


I'm 50-50 on that. It's somewhat likely he'll lose the title but I think there's also a decent chance Dolph will hold the title for a couple months more. Hopefully the supposed match against Harper at TLC will be no DQ or something to that effect as I see Dolph winning if so & I foresee an excellent match. 

A title reign until WM or so would be ace. He's just what the midcard needed. An excellent worker the fans are behind and invested in. He's done great so far match-wise and has really made the title feel important. I think he's already in the running for best IC Champ in a looong while b/c most of the previous champions had forgettable filler reigns. Dolph has already been a part of a good few great matches as Champion.

I'd love to see a couple triple threats / fatal four ways on PPV and/or Raw for the title. Maybe with one one of the top guys in NXT right now if promoted by then. Someone like Zayn, if not put straight into the Main Event picture upon Main Roster debut, could help make for an excellent multi-man match for the title.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The copy-paste functionality on this site is horribad, so I've screencapped the list.



Spoiler: Top 100 list


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> You're barking up the wrong tree for me picking those two matches, amigo. I have both Orton/Foley BL and Jericho/Benoit RR at the full *****. Two of the 15 best matches in company history for my money. Orton/Foley is probably one of the most exciting, bloody, and brutal matches from bell to bell that WWE has ever put on. It's one of my favorite go to matches when I can't think of anything to watch, if only for that amazing expression Orton makes when he realizes thumbtacks have just been lodged squarely in his butt hole. That's what he says when discussing that match anyway, that when he sat up after taking the back bump into the tacks that a few tacks stuck straight in his butt hole and that's what caused the face of all faces. He's one tough dude to continue a match after that kind of ordeal. Benoit/Jericho is the ladder match ideal for me, I'm not a fan of the big spots and hard crash and burn style, I'm more a fan when two guys use the ladder to just beat each other senseless, and that has never been done better than in that 2001 RR match IMO.
> 
> Let's see, which widely praised matches am I not nearly as high on as everyone else? Um, that's a tough one as I'm not a super picky guy and can usually find atleast SOME enjoyment in the widely praised classics everyone loves. Well, of course I hate HBK/Hart WM 12, hate Cena/Edge Unforgiven 06' and BL 09', don't really like Jericho/Cena SVS 08' (used to love it but it went way down for me on a rewatch)....uh I don't like HBK/Trips Badd Blood 2004 and RR 04'....I feel like I generally like most of the popular stuff in here. Guess I'm not very original, or I'm just not as picky as you fucks


Outside of the company itself, Bret/HBK is FAR from widely praised, you know  Nobody really likes those HHH/HBK matches either (although I kinda don't mind the LMS one when I feel like watching some senseless spotty wrestling). Only the Cena/Edge and Cena/Jericho ones are mostly liked, and the Cena/Edge ones are hated HERE anyway (by most people). So, I guess not much luck there 

Though, for widely praised matches I don't like as much as most people? The Angle/Benoit series quite obviously (except WM 17 and Backlash which are both fucking great)... I remember there were MANY people that actually really liked Cena/Show from JD 2009, me personally never thought that much of it despite Cena's convincing selling... Benoit/Jericho Ladder as I mentioned, though I still think it's a classic, just not THAT much... I would atm only go ****1/2 for Punk/Bryan OTL where most go higher... and Cena/HBK WM 23 is great but a bit overrated and pretty much guilty of an almost complete carryjob (the London rematch is far superior).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

"Somebody got a haircut" is actually one of the few times I've found Rock to be funny . His promos on Big Show were always amusing. "Uuuuraaarrgghhhhhhh" noises he'd make mocking the chokeslam :lmao.

Oh hey, new video on my BLOG~! and I'm sure it's something everyone will want to check out .

Watched Eddie/Rey GAB the other night on the anniversary of Eddie's death . Man, I am totally head over heels in love with that match. I do not regret throwing ***** at it when I reviewed it!


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Vince destroyed Big Show's legitimacy right from the get go. Putting him in a match with Austin about a week after he debuted on Raw was pathetic booking.

Also yeah C2D, Cole was a chore as usual during his spell on the play-by-play early that year, but make sure you tune into one of the Raws on the RTWM when JR makes his return.

:bahgawd 'Now git your YANKEE ASS... outta here!'

The hardcore title matches with Al Snow will continue the tradition of going outdoors as well. The matches with Bossman in the summer are mostly enjoyable for their unpredictable roaming. Got really old towards the end though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The hardcore title might be my absolute favourite thing about the Attitude Era. Most of that era was about shitty brawls that spilled outside the ring and into the fans and shit, and the main eventers were doing it and it just sucked. But having a bunch of mid card guys battering each other all over the place was pure fun and wasn't supposed to be some big epic main event, so it worked for me. I miss that title .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Quite a lot of matches that are highly praised that I don't like. A lot of them not in the WWE (damn you, Misawa vs. Kobashi and your disappointing ways. Damn you AJ Styles to all hell).

That Eddie/Rey GAB match is good, but not a classic in my eyes. Rey didn't do anything. And Eddie. It's a great performance for him, but it was a very easy performance to do. Anyone can look like a piece of shit in that situation. Tyson Kidd this past week did just as good a job of playing that human shield story in his match as Eddie in that match.

Hogan/Flair HH 94 is a disgrace to wrestling.

Savage/Hogan wasn't that great either. It felt like a RAW main event rather than a WM one. Good on Savage to carry that piece of vermin to something watchable.

Flair/Wahoo is good, but it would have been better if Wahoo wasn't there. Dude has some garbage ass offense.

Dynamite Kid vs. Tiger Mask matches were bad. Except for their first one, which is the one nobody talks about.

Manami Toyota matches. Sorry girls, I have to get my shit in.

Probably some more in mind.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Considering I watch every Raw (and Smackdown later), I'll obviously catch JR's return. Gonna be great because I'm getting bored of Michael Cole here. I've noticed how shit his announcing is here more than ever (him being garbage today is common knowledge). I'll stand by my statement that he was only bearable when Tazz was alongside. It actually felt like a wrestling show where they'd call matches and moves. Maybe it's too big for him, but trying to fill JR's shoes in these few months has sucked all the fun out of commentary. Only enjoy it when The Rock takes away his headsets and starts talking trash.

Mocking Big Show's scream is never gonna get old. I couldn't stop laughing when Ricardo Rodriguez did it a couple of years ago. :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho (Judgment Day 2008)* ***1/4
*Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho (Great American Bash 2008)* ***3/4
*Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho (Unsanctioned, Unforgiven 2008)* ***
*Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho (Ladder, No Mercy 2008)* ****

Finally watched the HBK/Jericho 2008 series. Ratings i know seem low, and people will call me mad lol, but i just didn't enjoy the matches as much as i thought i would, while they all have some qualities of course, they are not quite the 'epics' some consider them to be, IMO. Unsanctioned could have done with some blood IMO, but i guess they were not allowed to juice after going PG. 

It's funny really as im a mark for both of them, and i adore their WM19 matchup, just this series didn't really excite me, strange really as i was really looking forward to watching the series, but i admit some of the storytelling is top notch for the most part, and that aspect i would praise them on TBH. Ive no problem with anyone loving the series and rating it alot higher than me, i guess i just had higher expectations going into watching the matches. 

In summery, I liked the No Mercy/GAB matches, and not so much the Unforgiven/Judgment Day ones. 

Ill try and watch the Raw LMS later. Still say WM19 is by far their best match IMO, and that one i do consider a classic. 

Going to try and watch the two '12 Punk/Jericho PPV matches, WM and ER, just hope they hold up as high as last time I watched them lol, as i rate both quite highly tbh.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Jericho-Punk WM went from ****1/2 to **** on last viewing for me, really didn't hold up. Still really good but not the classic I remembered it as.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

I'm sorry to drag this conversation back a tad, but Michael Cole really is dog shit.

'Oh my look how Ziggler applies that hold'
'Oh my look how smart he is guys'
'Oh my oh my oh my oh my'
'ZIGGLER ZIGGLER ZIGGLER ZIGGLER ZIGGLER'
'CROSSFACE CROSSFACE CROSSFACE CROSSFACE'

Is he the worst play by play man of all time?

Anybody who disagrees is wrong by default.

He's a shit. A massive shit who needs to be stopped.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Nobody will ever be as bad as Gabe Sapolsky, but Cole sucks and has always sucked. He sucks to the point where if he's actually good for one match I explicitly remember it for a long time.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Wait, Cole actually called the Crossface for a change? Because the last few years Cena has done the move, he's called it the STF nearly every single time.

Sometimes I wonder if they legit suffer from memory loss or are intentionally acting oblivious to what moves are being hit. Cole has called moves like the German Suplex and Crossface a million times in the past, has he really turned dumb and can only say "Throw!" and confuse the Crossface with the STF?

Also Mankind vs Rock ladder match gets ★★★¼. Enjoyable but the weakest in their series so far. Pretty fun each of them, now I expect match quality to sadly decrease as the months pass by. I can't think of a single great match that has been pimped by fans past Backlash other than the No Mercy ladder match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Michael Cole doesn't actually like wrestling, so it shouldn't surprise us that he sucks. With that said, I think I hate Schiavone more. Schiavone is somehow even more unlikable.

Yeah, not only was that stretch from Backlash-No Mercy in 1999 bad for wrestling, but even the storylines minus The Rock N Sock Connection were bad. The midcard titles meant nothing and the WWE title scene was not interesting at all. Just a pitiful time. There were some really funny segments though. And a million car chases :lol


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

I'd take a bad Schiavone over Michael Cole any day. At least he sounded like he cared.

'Can you believe this King????'

Fuck off you miserable specimen and go die in a fire.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Manami Toyota matches. Sorry girls, I have to get my shit in


That's a lot of highly pimped Joshi, sadly. Because it's such a niche product, there's definitely a bias toward that style of move trading. Those 21/09/1997 and 28/02/2001 AJW cage tags, for instance, are a huge mess in their execution and suffer from jarring no-selling in order to change control between teams. There's no point in delivering a hate-filled, violent beatdown (qualities that elicited love from those who pimp it) if the wrestler having their ass kicked simply flubs off the injuries a few minutes later.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

The Rock vs Mankind vs Ken Shamrock
Triple Threat CAGE Match for No. 1 Contendership
Breakdown 1998 (September)
***3/4
Just watched this for the first time. Almost a 4 star match. Very exciting spots and a brilliant ending. Not to mention, the crowd was ridiculous. The Rock was oozing charisma. Mankind was hardcore and taking risks (15 ft missed elbow drop from the top of the cage). Shamrock played his role very well too. Overall, great match I had to write about it.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Honey Bucket said:


> I'm sorry to drag this conversation back a tad, but Michael Cole really is dog shit.
> 
> 'Oh my look how Ziggler applies that hold'
> 'Oh my look how smart he is guys'
> ...


I watch indy wrestling so he certainly isn't the worst. But he does suck so I'll give you that.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Honey Bucket said:


> I'm sorry to drag this conversation back a tad, but Michael Cole really is dog shit.
> 
> 'Oh my look how Ziggler applies that hold'
> 'Oh my look how smart he is guys'
> ...


Noelle Foley, Micks daughter, is a huge pro graps fan and she is often a guest on a podcast I listen to. She nicknamed whenever Cole over sells and does his "OH MY! OH MY!" Thing a "Colegasm". How great is that? Cracks me up when I hear Cole do it now.

But yes, minus the time Cole spent paired with Tazz under the direction of Heyman, Cole is the worst play by play guy ever. Just so long as you know Cole is only this bad because Vince and Kevin Dunn WANT him to be this way. When Heyman was in his headset and he was calling Smackdown with Tazz back in 2003-2004, Cole was generally damn good to be honest. Ever since he got paired with Lawler and got Vince and Dunn in his ear, he's absolutely the worst non Indy play by play guy ever. It ain't even close.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Cole's heel character in 2010/11 was enough to stop me watching for about 6 months. Absolutely despised him.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I can't get into those Joshi matches of the 90s everyone raves about for pretty much the same reason Rah mentioned. I watched Kong/Toyota the other day (can't remember the date) but half way into the match Manami just fucking gets up like she wasn't getting the piss and shit kicked out of her and starts with a flurry of offense....that lasted about 10 minutes. Not to mention the unnecessary amount of screaming. There's a lot of 90s Japan matches I'll never get into and that includes Misawa/Kobashi.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

He really was the worst as a heel. I've only had to mute two matches in history because of their commentary, and Bryan/Miz NOC was one of them totally because of Cole.

I disagree about Cole being good in 03/04. He's basically always come off as disingenuous horseshit.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

After watching the HBK/Jericho 2008 series, Jericho/Mysterio, pacificaly the Bash match, shits over them tbh. 

Imo. Like I said in my review, I liked the GAB/NM matches, and didn't like the JD/UF ones. I just felt rather underwhelmed tbh.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Jericho-Mysterio series

Judgement Day ****1/4
Extreme Rules ***1/2
The Bash ****1/4

Not that big a fan of the Extreme Rules match. The Bash match is the one that gets all the credit and quite rightly but I think Judgement Day is just as good, love it.

Will have to reqatch Y2J-HBK, it's my favourite ever feud but I haven't seen the matches in a long time.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I just watched the Ziggler/Kidd/Cesaro triple threat match on Smackdown and I thought it was really fucking good. I thought the match played up to all of their strengths with Cesaro demonstrating his power, Kidd being opportunistic to get any victory he could find, and Ziggler being the "survivor" as he would like to describe himself and demonstrating a fighting spirit and never giving up.

I'm really enjoying Dolph Ziggler's Intercontinental Championship reign. From his multiple title defenses, the opponents he had to face, and the quality of matches he's having, I believe that Dolph Ziggler is making the Intercontinental Championship the workhorse title it once was and in turn, is increasing the prestige of that championship in my eyes. I don't know if it's jumping the gun calling him the best Intercontinental Champion in recent memory, but he's definately my favorite. Damn good reign by Ziggler thus far and hopefully he'll be champ for a while (Y)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Context anyone?


Ziggler's title reign is exactly how an IC reign should be. Who would have thought that he would make a better champion than Lesnar?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Context would ruin that.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Going back to Michael Cole (Ugh), I wish he would have called in sick at NWO 2006, then we 1. Wouldn't have to listen to him and 2. Wouldn't have to hear his flu ridden nodes, esp in the Taker/Angle match.

Edit: I meant NWO 2007 and the tag min event lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just saw a Randy Savage/Dynamite Kid match listed, saw it only went barely over 3 minutes. 

Anyone got recs of the best (handful) of Dynamite Kid matches?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

*No Way Out 2006:
*
Cruiserwight Title Match- ***
JBL/Lashley- **
Hardy&Tatanka/MNM- *1/2
Booker/Benoit- ***1/2
Mysterio/Orton- ***1/4
Undertaker/Angle- ****3/4

Well this was a really nice surprise. I wanted to rewatch today only the Angle/Taker match, but because I was bored and I had notthing to do, I rewatched the whole PPV and I wasn't dissapointed at all. 
*The Cruiserweight Match* was really entertaining, I really forgot how fun Gregory Helms could be in the wrestling ring. *JBL/Lashley* was decent, I really don't know how they managed to have a watchable bout together but what can I say? Really surprised by the quality of this one. *The tag match* that followed this, was bad and boring, simply put. I never liked Tatanka, his in-rink work could really put me to sleep. He wasn't better here, unfortunately.

The last 3 matches of this one were simply amazing. *Benoit/Booker* always had great matches together, and this one wasn't an exception. *Orton/Rey* was good, very good actually, but still to this day I still have the feeling that they could have had a better bout. Maybe the fact that it was a damn slow match for a Mysterio one, but anyway the face/heel dynamic really helped this one. And finnnaallllyyy, the FANTASTIC main-event of the evening, my MOTY for 2006, Kurt Angle vs Undertaker. Was this the purest wrestling match that Taker ever wrestled? I think so, amazing bout from those two, NUFF SAID.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I got a little more love for Mysterio/Orton. I have it at ***3/4.

Just watched that triple threat match that everyone was raving about. Honestly, I don't think it's anything spectacular. It's a fun TV match but the way people made it out to be I could have sworn it was a MOTYC. I found that some spots were a bit contrived while some were actually pretty organic, Ziggler getting tied up in the tree of woe was an example of the latter. Then there were just moments where I felt as if I were watching an early PWG triple threat match where they were just doing these cool combination of moves for the sake of doing it. Ziggler's DDT/Neckbreaker combo comes to mind. It's a pretty solid match but nothing I'd go out of my way to see again tbh. *****


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just watched the Hart Foundation/Brainbusters match from Summerslam '89.

Still an excellent match, but i forgot just how much control of the match Bret and Anvil had tbh.

Need to watch some Rockers goodies soon. Is the 01/89 the best Rockers/Busters match?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

1/23/89 is the best one, 3/18/89 (from Boston Garden, not MSG - they had two matches that day) is the second. Also watch Rockers/Powers of Pain 1/15/90. I gotta watch some Rockers during my 'catch up' thingy I'm going to be doing. There's a Rockers/Busters I've never seen. :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Superstars – 12/10/88)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvtz6e_rockers-vs-brainbusters-superstars-12-10-88_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Spectrum – 12/18/88)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu017_rockers-vs-brainbusters-spectrum-12-18-88_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Boston Garden – 1/13/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu109_rockers-vs-brainbusters-boston-garden-1-13-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (MSG – 1/23/89, audio issues)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu256_rockers-vs-brainbusters-msg-1-23-89-audio-issues_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (LA Sports Arena – 1/29/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu328_rockers-vs-brainbusters-la-sports-arena-1-29-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Superstars – 2/18/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu3b4_rockers-vs-brainbusters-superstars-2-18-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (SNME – 3/11/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu43q_rockers-vs-brainbusters-snme-3-11-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (MSG – 3/18/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu4mc_rockers-vs-brainbusters-msg-3-18-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Boston Garden – 3/18/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu56g_rockers-vs-brainbusters-boston-garden-3-18-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Prime Time Wrestling – 3/27/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu5ve_rockers-vs-brainbusters-prime-time-wrestling-3-27-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (SNME – 11/25/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu69j_rockers-vs-brainbusters-snme-11-25-89_sport

Watch them all because... why not?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks Cal. I still have that Rockers comp I got off you, I presume they are all on there.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aye, all on there. Forgot you had the set. Watch their matches against the Rougeau's too. They had a couple of good matches and one pretty darn spectacular match too.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I understand he is on a movie set, but still you build all these layers for Orton from starting as face of the Authority to losing his confidence to being ousted for Seth and being treated like a secondary figure then have Orton have a fallout leading to Randy RKO'ing most in the authority and punching HHH and having Seth take out Orton. Now the perfect time to bring it full circle comes and Orton isn't on the team?* Boy considering I have high doubts the Authority disbands I hope Orton's the one to bring it down, as really its the only logical choice (pssh modern wwe booking and logic?). If somehow the authority loses, I hope Orton is involved*

As for Harper, I like the move to make him IC champ. Yes, many hate the title, but Harper in the division predominantly focused on ring work allows his impressive size to athleticism ratio to be highlighted as well as just his general craftsmanship in ring.This title also is somewhat of an insurance policy for Harper's revitilization considering it is almost guaranteed he takes a pin at Survivor Series. Dolph had a decent little run. Rest of the show other than Slater I didn't find really noteworthy.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Are we talking about the Rockers now? No discussion of them is proper without mention of their feud with Somers and Rose.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2...s-vs-midnight-rockers-awa-tv-08-30-1986_sport

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2...ddy-rose-tag-titles-1986-04-20-awa_shortfilms

http://rutube.ru/video/8ee6d5778b5ebe95dc51e618ca2a8126/


Cjack and Yeah1993, go watch these.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Buddy Rose is another one of those guys that isn't very heralded by fans, but those in the industry will usually praise him as a solid ring general who could call a good match. Buddy Rose is one of those guys I need to see more matches of.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Are we talking about the Rockers now? No discussion of them is proper without mention of their feud with Somers and Rose.
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2...s-vs-midnight-rockers-awa-tv-08-30-1986_sport
> 
> ...


Seen them, but not for like 5 years. I bet I'll get way more out of them now than I did back then. I mean I really liked them, but shit, five years is a lot of time and a lot of matches have had my opinion flinging everywhere like a paddle ball in the hands of a person who's incredibly shitty at paddle ball.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Are we talking about the Rockers now? No discussion of them is proper without mention of their feud with Somers and Rose.
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2...s-vs-midnight-rockers-awa-tv-08-30-1986_sport
> 
> ...


I've seen the one that takes place at the Showboat in Las Vegas and thought it was fucking GREAT. Haven't seen the others, apparently the Rockers wrestled Rose and Somers for like an entire year in the AWA. Sounds like what WWE is doing with the Usos and Gold/Stardust :lmao


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Currently on a mission to watch all ofc the "classics" I've never seen before and I'm starting at the start of the 90's, so I was wondering if some of you guys could chuck some of the classics and most praised matches from 1990 and 1991 at me. WWF, WCW, Territories, All Japan, New Japan, Lucha... I don't mind. Even the most obvious ones because you'd be surprised by the lack of stuff I have actually watched (I only watched Warrior/Macho Man for the first time yesterday, if that's any indication). The more the merrier, I'll probably write on a lot of them aswell, maybe.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Is Doom vs Arn/Windham from the ghastly Starrcade 1990 event considered a classic? Or is this term by quality & not popularity? b/c that's a great match that should be watched. The obvious is Midnight Express vs Southern Boys from GAB '90. Midnight Express vs Rock n'Roll Express & Flair vs Luger from WrestleWar '90. Steiners vs Nasty Boys & Doom vs Flair/Arn from Halloween Havoc '90. Visionaries vs Vipers from Survivor Series '90. Warrior vs Hogan WM 6 _(but I'm certain you've seen that)_

I'm working on the '91 year right now. But Rumble '91 is a hell of an event. Lots of good shit on there. But none of that probably falls under the proper criteria. Bossman vs Barbarian is def a gem, rather than a classic. Still...I'm just saying. :evil


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

One 1990 match that was highly recommended recently was Mr Perfect vs Tito Santana (Saturday Night's Main Event 07/28/1990). Gonna watch it myself later.

They had another good match earlier in the year too, think on Superstars.

Edit: That SNME match has to be one of the best WWF matches of the year, highly recommended.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The website is known for having dumb pricks, but this list is very helpful. Don't mind the ordering, but almost all the matches on this list are great.

http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/19150-my-top-100-matches-of-1990/


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

*90-05-13 Emilio Charles, El Satanico & El Dandy vs Atlantis, Angel Azteca & Javier Cruz* _~ the peak of early 90s EMLL trios_
*90-06-01 Angel Azteca vs. El Dandy*
*90-06-07 El Hijo del Santo, Super Astro & Kendo v ***** Casas, Blue Panther & Fuerza Guerrera *_~ not a classic by any means but a non-Lucha fan should love this_
*90-11-14 Bull Nakano vs Aja Kong* _~ there's a good few comebacks involving no selling (Nakano's not exactly making any attempts) but the entire match is too much of a spectacle not to rate_
*91-02-24 The Four Horsemen (Windham/Flair/Zbyszko/Vicious) Vs Sting's Squadron (Sting/Pillman/Steiners)*
*91-05-19 Barry Windham Vs Brian Pillman
91-08-09 Blue Panther vs Atlantis
91-11-13 El Faraon vs Pirata Morgan*


I've got this nagging inkling that I'm missing a match, but I cannot remember for the life of me what it was. What year was that terrific Hansen/Kobashi match?


Lucha stuff that gets high praise but I'm not sure of
91*-01-13 Brazo de Oro vs El Hijo del Santo *_~ bloodbath but Santo's comeback in the segunda is kinda hokey_
*91-??-?? Super Astro, Panterita del Ring & Blue Demon Jr. vs. Arandu, Pirata Morgan & El Verdugo* _~ kinda sloppy and reliant on comedy in an otherwise terrific heel beat down match; best Blue Demon Jr performance I've ever seen (he's generally shite)_




funnyfaces1 said:


> The website is known for having dumb pricks


????????????????



funnyfaces1 said:


> but this list is very helpful. Don't mind the ordering, but almost all the matches on this list are great.
> 
> http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/19150-my-top-100-matches-of-1990/


Yeah, just go with this. I wish I remembered these existed:

Soup23's Top 100 of 1990
Loss' Top 100 of 1990
Soup23's Top 100 of 1991
Loss' Top 100 of 1991


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I was going to suggest looking through the Yearbooks.

Anyone got a top 5-ish Dynamite Kid matches?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

1. vs. Marty Jones WOS
2. dunno
3. dunno
4. dunno
5. dunno






thanks for the replies btw, guys xxxx


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Tar. Seems to be on YT which is good as i dont have it.

For those who don't know, Steve Austin has done commentary on his podcast for the Bret/Austin WM13 match. In the same vein as he did for Rock/Austin. :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

:lmao @ JR's return in March 99. First he loses it on that Bart Gunn segment and now he hit Michael Cole in the nuts. How much of this angle is real? JR is just so awesome when he's pissed off. :lmao

Wrestlemania XV is almost here, I will get to see just how bad this PPV really is soon. Still got two left, though. Thankfully I don't have to download the shows anymore because watchwrestling has reuploaded them.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Watchwrestling is back in order? Sweet. Too bad I already went through all the years unk3

:lol C2D are you aware that Michael Cole spoiled the ending of WM XV on some home shopping show? Vince could have ended 15 more years of misery right there, but for once the man actually showed that he had a heart.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

2000-02 are still not back up yet but at least he's got to 1999 and I'm confident by the time I get done with 99, 2000 should be ready and good to go.

Never heard of Cole doing that. But he's such a joke here, I can't believe they had him call parts of WM. I've not been able to get his terrible "serious" commentary from Undertaker hanging Boss Man out of my head since I first heard it. Who is the face and heel in this Taker/Boss Man feud? The latter is with the Corporation (obvious heels) and Undertaker & the Ministry behave like heels.

Is Bart Gunn bragging about "beating JR's boy" backstage real or just made up for storyline purposes? I'm not one to laugh at illnesses but JR makes it hard to let me keep a straight face when he keeps bringing up his disfigured face and says "No one can look JR in the eye". :lol


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Flux said:


> Currently on a mission to watch all ofc the "classics" I've never seen before and I'm starting at the start of the 90's, so I was wondering if some of you guys could chuck some of the classics and most praised matches from 1990 and 1991 at me. WWF, WCW, Territories, All Japan, New Japan, Lucha... I don't mind. Even the most obvious ones because you'd be surprised by the lack of stuff I have actually watched (I only watched Warrior/Macho Man for the first time yesterday, if that's any indication). The more the merrier, I'll probably write on a lot of them aswell, maybe.


IDK about classics but watch all of the Pillman/Windham matches from 1991. You can knock them all out in like an hour and they all rock. Also Flair/Pillman 2/17/90 and 4/13/91. 



Rah said:


> *90-06-01 Angel Azteca vs. El Dandy*


If someone watches this and doesn't like it, then they almost cannot possibly like lucha title matches. It's one of the best matches ever. I could see an argument for absolute best.



Brock said:


> Anyone got a top 5-ish Dynamite Kid matches?


Not a DK fan or expert, but DK/Fujinami 5/2/80 and DK/Keirn v. Fujinami/Hoshino 1/18/80 are both fantastic.



Hayley Seydoux said:


> Bossman vs Barbarian is def a gem, rather than a classic. Still...I'm just saying. :evil


Didn't they feud for a chunk of the year? It's apparently a really, really fun series of matches.


NOPE - I am doing it too. Within the next 24 hours, I will watch matches I should have watched a long time ago and never did. Starting with the Clique tag from 94. Not sure I ever saw that Perfect/Santana. Wanna see that too.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Highly recommend that everyone check out the new Austin podcast where he goes in depth about his WM 13 match vs Bret Hart. So cool to hear his play by play commentary about what was going through his mind as the match progressed. In my opinion this is the greatest match ever (atleast that I've seen) so getting this kind of commentary was just about as cool as it gets for me. 

Watching the Savage documentary now, I have to say it's not dissapointing at all so far. Top notch like almost all of WWEs recently releases have been. 

Flux: check out the two Bret Hart vs Mr. Perfect classics, Summerslam 1991 and King of the Ring 1993. IMO both are perfect matches and are among my all time favorites. I think I've already sent you my top 100 matches list when you started doing this little project earlier, but if I haven't send me a PM and I'll get it to you, just atleast so you can have something to go by for WWE matches.

I also second your view on DK/Marty Jones, Zeppers you need to see that if you haven't it's fucking GREAT. Right up there with Finlay/Davey Boy as my favorite from WoS.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Oh man. I was watching this match from 1985 between Zeb Colter and Bill Dundee vs. The Fantastics. The match was a whip on a pole match, which somehow ended via disqualification. I give up. Sorry cjack and Yeah1993, I just don't think Mid South is for me. I tried, but I just can't stand watching squashes and shitty endings to matches anymore.

On the plus side, I did find a bunch of cool stuff from WCW in 1996. Did you know that Eddie and Liger had a match in WCW? Liger and Ohtani also had a hidden gem. And I didn't know that Arn Anderson wrestled after the nWo. I thought his back gave out by then.


----------



## Superhippy (Jan 28, 2014)

I was just watching the Mr. Wrestlemania HBK DVD, and after Razor v. HBK, it occurred to me that Lawler REALLY needs to go back to being a heel. JBL has no fucking clue how to put the heel over. None. The entire purpose of commentary is to put over the guys in the ring. For as bad as Cole is sometimes, he does a good job putting the faces over. Lawler though is a master at putting the heel over.


----------



## CD Player (May 27, 2013)

Here's a review of the new Savage dvd from an Amazon customer. 



> It hurts me to write a review with a rating so low, but as a COLOSSAL Savage fan, I've waited a long time for a biography on his life and career. With that being said, it feels like there is so much missing from this release.
> 
> For example:
> 
> ...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just downloaded the documentary. Gotta wonder though, if that guy watched the version on the WWE Network which was just a preview, or if that really is what the full doc is like. Guess I'll find out later when I watch it .


----------



## musclehead (Feb 12, 2005)

Just watched the Savage doc and its pretty disappointing. Im not a Savage fan myself but they left out a lot of feuds and it wasn't put together very well. I think fans want to hear about what he did in the ring rather then out of it.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

The doc was well done but missed out some pretty interesting and important things, they should have added another half an hour and take it up to 2 hours and get everything in

They could have then talked about Macho King, career vs career with Warrior and more in depth about the Intercontinental title run and the Mega Powers.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Damn, so that IS the full doc . Very disappointing to hear that almost all the important parts of his career have been ignored. Glad I just downloaded it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Savage doc looks disappointing. 

So much big obvious stuff seems to be missing. Usually I can look past that, but it's pretty important here imo.

Either they are very inept or the hate is very deep. :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Didn't they feud for a chunk of the year? It's apparently a really, really fun series of matches.


It appears most of their matches were circa 1990 on House Shows. Only two matches followed their Rumble match for '91.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Savage doc could have been SO much better, but as it is it's not bad at all. I wouldn't say dissapointing either, I would say it's just a missed opportunity. I would think most fans would have preferred they spend more time talking about his various feuds, but instead they really don't go indepth on any of them except the Steamboat and DDP ones, and even those are only covered for like 5 minutes each. Maybe other, less hardcore wrestling fans don't care as much about the feuds and that's why they didn't do it. Or maybe it's because Randy isn't alive to discuss them. Either way, I still enjoyed it for what it was. It's not like it was a waste of time to watch.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watched the Savage doc. Was ok at best. Was an hour and a half long but they didn't really talk about... anything lol . You could probably condense like his entire wrestling career into a 20 minute video . Pathetic really.

Oh hey new blog stuff .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

What the hell did they talk about in the doc if they ignored everything that guy said they did. :lmao 

"uhhhhh Randy Macho had a battle with Yokosumo once. It didn't suck."


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> What the hell did they talk about in the doc if they ignored everything that guy said they did. :lmao
> 
> "uhhhhh Randy Macho had a battle with Yokosumo once. It didn't suck."


I'm trying to figure out the same thing. The review that was first copy and pasted here seems like everything that was important in his career wasn't mentioned.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They didn't mention his matches with Yoko btw :side: .

They just kinda briefly mentioned that he joined WWF, was popular, had the match at WM III with Steamboat, won the title the next year, feuded with Hogan (no mention of their WM match) and then he got divorced from Liz in real life and suddenly it's 1994 and he's leaving for WCW :lmao. In WCW he... was there and feuded with Page and then he was gone.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

I'll stick to the his obituary in the Observer. Def wanna get some of those house show matches against Hogan and Steamboat for cheap though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just watched Hogan vs Piper from Sucking Wind Halloween Havoc 1997 and I don't know if a match has ever provided me with more comedy than this. :lmao I don't even know where to start. Just a clusterfuck all around and everyone probably knows what exactly is humorous about this.

Speaking of Savage, he might've stolen the show here by that completely missed dive from the top of the cage, which made no sense to begin with as the door was unlocked.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

“Hulk Hogan, you may be a household word but so is garbage. And it stinks when it gets old too.” :lmao Too funny. God damn, how is it possible that Goldberg was one of two or three people in WCW to get a good match out of him during this period?

I don't think I've seen a Rock N Roll vs. Midnight Express match that I really liked that much. Any recs?


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Choke2Death said:


> Just watched Hogan vs Piper from Sucking Wind Halloween Havoc 1997 and I don't know if a match has ever provided me with more comedy than this. :lmao I don't even know where to start. Just a clusterfuck all around and everyone probably knows what exactly is humorous about this.
> 
> Speaking of Savage, he might've stolen the show here by that completely missed dive from the top of the cage, which made no sense to begin with as the door was unlocked.


Watch Age in the Cage II as well as Hogan vs. Warrior II.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

"Age in the Cage" :lmao :lmao :lmao

I would love to read a CAL ramble on the HH 97 cage match. Would truly do it justice. :lol

Gonna watch Cornette's shoot on it again for a good laugh and maybe watch Flair vs Hogan first blood to keep it rolling.

Just googled it and found out one of the Stings is a fan. :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Watch both Flair/Hogan cage matches for the lolz. The first one has Hogan attacking a woman and Mr. T refereeing the action. All the while, this was supposed to be Flair's retirement match. Also look into Hogan/Sting II if you're brave enough.


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

Choke2Death said:


> "Age in the Cage" :lmao :lmao :lmao
> 
> I would love to read a CAL ramble on the HH 97 cage match. Would truly do it justice. :lol


I seriously thought he was referring to HHH/Taker at WM...


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Downloaded the WWE Network on PS3. I'll have a better look at it tonight to decide whether or not I should keep it. From what I can tell, they have no WWE TV on there yet despite all of the Nitros and Hardcore TV.

I will absolutely watch the Clique tag before going to sleep, too. I bet it ain't on the Network.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Actually they do have plenty of WWE TV, just none of the good years. A few Raw or SDs here and there from 1997-2007 and the entirety of 1993-95 and 2012-present. For me, it's not really worth keeping around as of this moment because I will only really consider it must have long term once they add the TV stuff from 2000-06. I think I'll cancel it before my paid subscription begins.

Watched the Flair vs Hogan match and I'll stick to believing the Piper match is.... better. Some good comedy here but it doesn't last the entire time like it did in HH97. I did get a good chuckle out of the announcer trying to justify the match continuing after Flair bleeds by saying the referee has vision problems. :lmao

And first he didn't want to count Hogan's pin on Flair because of the first blood rule (even though Flair was already bleeding) then in the end the match ends by a pinfall.

I really gotta watch Sting vs Hogan because all the shenanigans are too good to miss. They actually go off the air before the match has ended. :lmao


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

BREEaments03 said:


> I seriously thought he was referring to HHH/Taker at WM...


Halloween Havoc '97 = AGE IN THE CAGE~!

Uncensored '98 = AGE IN THE CAGE II~!

Halloween Havoc '98 = THE REMATCH OF THE CENTURY~!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

How can we also forget those DDP + celebrity vs. Hogan and Rodman matches? Malone hit a mean Diamond Cutter.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> Actually they do have plenty of WWE TV, just none of the good years. A few Raw or SDs here and there from 1997-2007 and the entirety of 1993-95 and 2012-present. For me, it's not really worth keeping around as of this moment because I will only really consider it must have long term once they add the TV stuff from 2000-06. I think I'll cancel it before my paid subscription begins.


Cool, thanks. 93 & 94 excite me way more than most of 00-06, tbh. 

Checked now, found the Raws and SDs under "replays"? They don't seem to have Action Zone, so no Clique tag. Still. bet I can find something new to watch (that I want to watch for this watch-supposedly-good-things-thing) on here.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watch Mr. Perfect vs Terry Taylor from like the second RAW ever & tell me what you think.


----------



## ejc8710 (Aug 12, 2011)

Watched the macho man doc and wow this doc does nothing more than throw fire on the Randy/Steph rumor really Not one McMahon or Triple h to be found any where on this doc but really Vince is dropping tears all over the Warrior on his doc????????????


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

You actually expected that issue to be addressed?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

They couldn't even cover his damn wrestling career properly.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

YES! Looks like Brock is leaving once again. If so, good riddance to bad rubbish. Just make sure not to take Paul with you when you leave Brock.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Watched a few more Hogan matches from WCW just to see if anything would top the Piper match but nope. What I got was some plain boring matches that simply suck with very little to give me some comedy redeeming the shittiness. Watched Hogan vs Savage from Uncensored 98 and Hogan vs Warrior II and they were plain boring rather than "so bad it's good". The lack of logic in the former is comical. Why did they leave the cage for like a minute and then come back in? Not to mention the non-finish. In Russo's defense, stupidity and WCW went together pretty well even before he took over.

Also watched Goldberg vs Hogan from Georgia Dome to see if it was the good Hogan match ff mentioned last page. But no, it was nothing special. Still got Sting vs Hogan left.

Only one Raw left before WM15. The 15/3 episode has an electric main event with Rock/Show vs Austin/Mankind but damn, Michael Cole is getting unbearable. It's an insult to the audience that they presented JR as the heel when he came over with his own exclusive announce table to call the action. You hear him and think "THAT'S what I call play by play" then Cole keeps interrupting or talking over him like a dickhead. Just bring on WM's main event so they finally got rid of this idiot. Going back to Russo, he's a first class idiot if it's true that he suggested they put Cole in JR's place full-time around this time.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Where might one download full RAW years?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Watch Mr. Perfect vs Terry Taylor from like the second RAW ever & tell me what you think.


Watched it now, it was fun as hell. Hennig is so much better a babyface than a heel. Just when I thought the offense started getting a little weak, they do a really rough looking headshot onto the guardrail to begin Taylor's control stuff. Stuff like this is why the Network should exist.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

admiremyclone said:


> Where might one download full RAW years?


XWT


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Terry Taylor as a heel just doesn't make sense to me. Man is perfect as the Ziggler-like babyface.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Lesnar leaving lol

they gave this guy the fucking streak


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

And people actually justified it :lmao


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Instead of destroying him and his character in that program with Cena, they should have built Wyatt up to the point where he would have been the one to end it. :aj3


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

No idea why everyone didn't instantly hate the fact that a 37 year old part timer that ditched after being given the world the first time around was given the streak in the first place. Made the entire thing a huge waste of time.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Part of the reason why was because we all assumed that it was Undertaker's choice for Brock to end it. But now there's been news of it being a last minute decision from Vince himself. I honestly think that even if Undertaker chose Brock to end it, it would still qualify as a bad decision. Undertaker is not immune to thinking like a dumbass.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm of the belief that the streak should have never ended but if anyone had to do it, I don't really mind it being Brock. I mean it could've been worse, like the streak ending at WM29. And the former Husky Harris ending it would've been just as bad.

If Brock does face Cena again and drops the belt to Reigns then leaves, it will be an extremely disappointing run, though. But I will only be mad because of all the possible fresh match-ups that didn't happen and instead he was wasted on worthless hacks like Reigns or a million rematches that only a couple of didn't blow.


----------



## Rugrat (Jun 30, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I'm of the belief that the streak should have never ended but if anyone had to do it, I don't really mind it being Brock. I mean it could've been worse, like the streak ending at WM29. And the former Husky Harris ending it would've been just as bad.


It would've been better if Punk or Wyatt won, as at least they'd gain from it. So what if Wyatt was Husky Harris, all that matters is how talented he is.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah and as far as I'm concerned, he's nothing special and does not deserve it.

The go home show to WM15 was lots of fun. From the opening segment that concludes with Austin doing the beer bath on the Corporation to the main event and everything in-between such as JR's "frat party" and Big Show screwing up again. lol @ the Holly/Dr. Death brawl in the frat house. :lmao


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I'm almost positive that I'm going to the Royal Rumble and I'm strongly consider booing Lesnar and cheering for Cena because that's how annoyed I am with Lesnar. Yeah he has some good matches when he shows up but he's the champion and hasn't been seen in months. it's awful. 

I understood why Lesnar broke the streak and if it had led to him becoming the champion and holding the title and actually defending the title I would have been OK with it. But now that it's clear he isn't going to show up and defend the title monthly (or even at every other PPV) it's hard to still justify the booking decisions that have been made with Lesnar.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

TaylorFitz said:


> I'm almost positive that I'm going to the Royal Rumble and I'm strongly consider booing Lesnar and cheering for Cena because that's how annoyed I am with Lesnar. Yeah he has some good matches when he shows up but he's the champion and hasn't been seen in months. it's awful.
> 
> I understood why Lesnar broke the streak and if it had led to him becoming the champion and holding the title and actually defending the title I would have been OK with it. But now that it's clear he isn't going to show up and defend the title monthly (or even at every other PPV) it's hard to still justify the booking decisions that have been made with Lesnar.


I don't see why you and everyone else seems so pissed at Brock for not being around. What do you expect, Brock to work for free? Brock signed a deal after winning the title stating he would show up for additional dates whenever the WWE needed him, WWE has just chosen to rip the fans off and not pay for Brock to appear. This is 100% on Vince/WWE, not on Brock. Why would you boo Brock for something Vince did? If Vince would pay the contracted rate he negotiated with Lesnar, Lesnar would be here. Simple as that. It seems absurd to me people expect Brock to just show up and work for free. No one else on the roster works for free. WWE chose to give a contract to Brock that's based on paying per appearance, no one forced them to do it, and then WWE chose to screw their fans by putting the title on Brock then refusing to pay for him to appear.

I agree though, if this was how they were gonna use Brock, breaking the streak and giving him the title was a huge mistake. However, if they had just executed this properly, Brock could have had a legendary reign that elevated the title and helped make a new star. If Brock had broken the Streak, then defeated say Batista in a #1 contenders match at MitB, then squashed Cena at SS and then beat him again clean at NoC, then took on Sheamus at HiaC, Orton at SVS, then faced Bryan at the Rumble, retained in the Chamber, then finally lost to Dean Ambrose at WM, or something, we would be singing a different tune. That's how I would have booked it.

Right now, since WWE has just completely screwed the pooch with Brock, my only hope, and it's an absolute long shot at best, is that WWE gives us Brock vs Bryan before Brock rides off into the sunset. That has the potential to be an all timer and I'd LOVE to see it, especially at WrestleMania.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

If Lesnar does indeed leave, I doubt he even makes it to WM with the title. I bet Cena takes it off him and Reigns beats Cena or something stupid like that. I just don't see Lesnar going into the biggest show with the title on his way out. I know he'd lose for sure, but still.

Punk at WM29 would have been a great one to end it as well.

It's also painful to know we'll never see Lesnar vs. Bryan. Lesnar/Punk was amazing... just imagine Lesnar/Bryan.


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

Choke2Death said:


> I'm of the belief that the streak should have never ended but if anyone had to do it, I don't really mind it being Brock. I mean it could've been worse, like the streak ending at WM29. And the former Husky Harris ending it would've been just as bad.


Of course, I think both options would have been infinitely better :lol

My shortlist consists of Kane, Cena (heel turn), and Wyatt, but Punk at 29 would have been fine, as would Ambrose. The streak never ending would be a lot better than what we got.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

At the time it happened, Punk ending the streak would've been the best option of the last several years. It's something like that that could've changed him from being a major top current star, to being in that icon class. It might be silly to think one win could do that, but this is the streak ending, and if nothing else it did restore most of Lesnar's credibility that he lost, when he lost to Cena and HHH. But yeah, Punk ending would've been that win he needed to go one step up on the all-time list... although now looking back in hindsight, considering Punk ended up leaving, it's a good thing he didn't end it. It would've been even more of a waste than Lesnar ending it. 

Wyatt would've been a great option as it would've cemented him as a top guy for years to come. Replace Lesnar this year with Wyatt... hell, Wyatt would've probably done to Cena what Lesnar ended up doing at Summerslam (to a lesser extent though) and would've been champion now. He could've been a great option for putting over Ambrose or Reigns or whoever they'd want at Mania for the title. Sure the win wouldn't mean as much as a win over current Lesnar, but ultimately it would've done what it needed to do, and they wouldn't be down one top heel the night after like it's looking to be the night after WM31.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I wonder if Punk ending the streak would have avoided the walkout less than a year later.

Punk's promos post-streak would have been unreal.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

RatedR10 said:


> I wonder if Punk ending the streak would have avoided the walkout less than a year later.
> 
> Punk's promos post-streak would have been unreal.


I doubt Punk ending the streak would've made a difference. I think his reasons for leaving are more than just him being unhappy with management. Injuries, illness (?), and then mixing in him being sick with the company in general is what ultimately made him leave.

Plus Punk took a couple of months off after WM29, and I doubt he'd have traded that time for anything, even ending the streak.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I don't see why you and everyone else seems so pissed at Brock for not being around. What do you expect, Brock to work for free? Brock signed a deal after winning the title stating he would show up for additional dates whenever the WWE needed him, WWE has just chosen to rip the fans off and not pay for Brock to appear. This is 100% on Vince/WWE, not on Brock. Why would you boo Brock for something Vince did? If Vince would pay the contracted rate he negotiated with Lesnar, Lesnar would be here. Simple as that. It seems absurd to me people expect Brock to just show up and work for free. No one else on the roster works for free. WWE chose to give a contract to Brock that's based on paying per appearance, no one forced them to do it, and then WWE chose to screw their fans by putting the title on Brock then refusing to pay for him to appear.
> 
> I agree though, if this was how they were gonna use Brock, breaking the streak and giving him the title was a huge mistake. However, if they had just executed this properly, Brock could have had a legendary reign that elevated the title and helped make a new star. If Brock had broken the Streak, then defeated say Batista in a #1 contenders match at MitB, then squashed Cena at SS and then beat him again clean at NoC, then took on Sheamus at HiaC, Orton at SVS, then faced Bryan at the Rumble, retained in the Chamber, then finally lost to Dean Ambrose at WM, or something, we would be singing a different tune. That's how I would have booked it.
> 
> Right now, since WWE has just completely screwed the pooch with Brock, my only hope, and it's an absolute long shot at best, is that WWE gives us Brock vs Bryan before Brock rides off into the sunset. That has the potential to be an all timer and I'd LOVE to see it, especially at WrestleMania.


This post says it better than I could've. The idea of giving Lesnar all this was great *IF* WWE would've planned ahead and figured it all out in advance. Instead, they just threw caution to the wind with no planning beforehand and hoped it would work out. Now we're here and the company have screwed over themselves as well as the fans with the idiocy of what they've done.

I can't get mad at Brock because he never pretended to be anything else. From day one, he admitted that he's not a wrestling fan and he's only here to make a name for himself and enjoy the paycheck. It's also been made crystal clear throughout his return but Vince still insisted on giving him the streak and let him take the belt with him home for several months without a single appearance for whatever reason. He's not stupid, so he's not gonna turn it down. And at least he has enough respect for the business because he told Undertaker "Thank you" after the pinfall, which shows he still cares to an extent and isn't just using the wrestling business for selfish benefits.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I don't see why you and everyone else seems so pissed at Brock for not being around. What do you expect, Brock to work for free? Brock signed a deal after winning the title stating he would show up for additional dates whenever the WWE needed him, WWE has just chosen to rip the fans off and not pay for Brock to appear. This is 100% on Vince/WWE, not on Brock. Why would you boo Brock for something Vince did? If Vince would pay the contracted rate he negotiated with Lesnar, Lesnar would be here. Simple as that. It seems absurd to me people expect Brock to just show up and work for free. No one else on the roster works for free. WWE chose to give a contract to Brock that's based on paying per appearance, no one forced them to do it, and then WWE chose to screw their fans by putting the title on Brock then refusing to pay for him to appear.
> 
> I agree though, if this was how they were gonna use Brock, breaking the streak and giving him the title was a huge mistake. However, if they had just executed this properly, Brock could have had a legendary reign that elevated the title and helped make a new star.
> 
> Right now, since WWE has just completely screwed the pooch with Brock, my only hope, and it's an absolute long shot at best, is that WWE gives us Brock vs Bryan before Brock rides off into the sunset. That has the potential to be an all timer and I'd LOVE to see it, especially at WrestleMania.


Brock/Bryan is probably the only thing that could make this title reign not the worst in years. The fact that we won't get to see this is just damning. Stupid wrestling.

As for the earlier point, I don't think Brock is directly at fault for not being around, but TaylorFitz has every reason to boo him and we have every reason to call Brock's run a failure. If he leaves after Mania, it's clear as day that Brock wasn't even worth half the price of admission. Brock himself has given us some good matches, but what Brock represents is something worse than any streak of five star matches, which is this constant dependence on old stars when newer guys would make better champions and possibly even draw equally well. I really hope this "project" puts an end to this irrational method of running a wrestling company on the backs of fossils. You are right though that Brock has every right to care about his own personal life than wrestling. It's just that as much as he wants to talk about it in his autobiography, I really don't think Brock understands how ungrateful he is of all the gifts given to him. Hopefully if he leaves, he will at least show some respect to the business, which is something he didn't really do last time.



EDIT: So Cal was not lying. Butch Reed vs. Ric Flair ruled. Somehow the match was 90% headlocks and it was still fun to watch.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

You have every reason to boo Brock, and should, because he is a heel more than anything.

If his departure is true, and made widely known, the hostile crowd between Goldberg and Lesnar may be a school play compared to Reigns/Lesnar.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Watched it now, it was fun as hell. Hennig is so much better a babyface than a heel. Just when I thought the offense started getting a little weak, they do a really rough looking headshot onto the guardrail to begin Taylor's control stuff. Stuff like this is why the Network should exist.


(Y)

I went through the first few RAWs - about six or so - & that was far and away the best match released up to that point. Yoko vs Koko was fun & did what it needed, but everything else has been poop or no different than Superstars. _(Luger vs Jason Knight ending the show, not being the last match, but literally ending the show.)_ Maybe the Andre memorial battle royal was better than I recall, although no Perfect vs Taylor. Ideal gem in regards to spooling through the forgotten tv programs. 



RatedR10 said:


> Lesnar leaving lol
> 
> they gave this guy the fucking streak


About time everyone on the internet realizes that this was a horrible decision.

it's like a complete backlash on Brock now :lmao


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

In the process of writing little bits about a few shows right now, and honestly I've enjoyed practically all of it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't think WWF kicked into a gear to where I cared about the product much until WM time. Pardon certain players; Doink, Undertaker, Bret, Yoko, Steiners.

Between Michaels being shit & having to care about Brutus Beefcake though, ugh.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Haven't seen Beefcake yet. Not looking forward to it. Don't think I've ever seen him look even OK other than maybe tagging with Greg Valetine. Not really here nor there on 93 Michaels, but I guess I'll get a better look when I keep watching (yes this will be a continuing thing). I've kinda had the opinion for a while that's in 93 he was OK but not good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Felt like everything he did that year minus - possibly - the first match vs Marty on RAW was awful. The PPV match vs Marty was & I hate that affair w/Perfect come SummerSlam. There might be a good match vs Duggan out there. I trust Duggan.

It's unusual but I think he was better in '92 b/c he was always put in w/guys who were meant to be cushions for him, rather than let Michaels lead w/a belt in '93. Stuff I remember comes off better.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Def agree he was better in 92. I completely adored the ladder math with Hart when I watched it weeks ago. 

--------------------------------------

I’ll be doing the ‘catch up’ thing, but in the mean time I’m going to try to get through full, or at least semi-full years of Raw w/ maybe the PPVs on the network. I’ll just write about the shows in a sort of dot point form. 

*Raw #1, 1/11/93*

Koko/Yoko is still a super little squash. Koko is all time great bumper and I say that without much hesitation. It’s like he knows exactly how much to fling himself depending on what move he takes, and what opponent he has. Yoko is one of the top things I’m excited for during this 1993 thing. PHAT.

Michaels has a surprisingly not-shitty IC match with Max Moon. Is this Max Moon Konnan? He was hitting everything pretty cleanly, quickly, and without the Konnan woodboard-stiff shit that I’m used to. Thought it was awesome when Moon did a roll up and his spaceman stripes and Michaels’ tiger stripes mixed together in a ball of tights. The superkick so should have been the finish. They did some nonsense for twenty seconds after that and then ended the match. The superkick made people stand up. Good thing somebody decided that should be his finisher. How many matches has Cesaro won with the uppercut, btw?

Bobby Heenan constantly trying to get into Raw is so great. Anybody today dressing in drag attempting to get into the building would be the worst thing of all time, remembered online as a ‘you should stop watching this garbage’ moment. The show twenty years ago just had something that made it work. And, Bobby Heenan can pull anything off.

Taker and Damien Demento have….a match. Kinda cool how Demento was cutting off Taker’s punches by throwing his own. What exactly was Damien Demento? What was he supposed to be? What was his gimmick? Weird guy who wore his hair like shit?

*Raw #2, 1/18/93*

Anyone know if the Marty Jannetty match is good? I wasn’t paying attention. Hell, I don’t even know who he faced.

Perfect/Taylor was fun as all hell, and I won’t hesitate calling it a legitimate and true ‘good match’. Hennig is so much better as a babyface that the over-bumping heel that it isn’t funny. He has a real face energy, and uses it when jumping over the top rope to sprint at Taylor. Thought the offense was getting a little weak, but immediately as I had that thought, Taylor shoves Hennig into the rail and Hennig looks like he just plummets his face mouth-first onto the steel. I’m not entirely sure what Flair running in did exactly b/c Hennig still won, but it made a little more sense after the main event.

Flair/Santana was a really goddamn fun main event and I thought almost as good as Perfect/Taylor. I don’t think I can pause frame-by-frame on my PS3, but I would love to check out just how monstrously close Flair’s knee gets to people’s head. Perfect runs into the attack Flair and they have a great punch war before making the LLT official. 

*Royal Rumble, 1/24/93*

Steiners/Beverlys is pretty awesome. Slipped my mind that I’d get to see Mike motherfuckin Enos while watching all of this. Little bit of a ‘you do it, I do it’ tag to start with; the Beverlys whinge that the hair is being pulled, and then get their first offensive move by obviously yanking the hair. NotEnos Beverly shoves an on-the-apron Rick, so Scotty tags Rick in, NotEnos tags Enos in, and Rick shoves NotEnos while doing his run-in-a-circle thing. Scott’s FIP is good, and I wasn’t sure it’d even exist because I didn’t know if the WWF had totally abandoned that awful heel-in-peril thing by 93. It’s like the Rockers were the only face team the company had in the late 80s that thought the heels should get to hit people. Scott stops a back-body-drop with a butterfly suplex, so that was cool. Rick’s hot tag is full of hot tag fire and Scott stops a doomsday device with one of those on-the-shoulders roll-ups and this was really neat.

Michaels/Jannetty was OK. Jannetty’s shoulder selling was the best part. Had a pretty hot finish stretch, and lack of a real clean finish lets rematches exist. Jannetty jumping Michaels before Shawn and Sherri (who’s siding w/ Marty now?) lets rematches exist, even more, I guess.

In my heart I wanted Bigelow/Bossman to be an all-out slugfest, and I can’t say I’m disappointed that I didn’t really get that. Bossman is too good a babyface – and way too good a bumper – for me to not be happy with this. Most wrestlers look like they grab onto the top rope while getting thrown out of the ring to alleviate some of the pain. With Bossman it looks like it would have hurt way less if he’d just let go. One of the best moments of the match was when Bossman flat out ducked a flying crossbody just by bending over. Awesome. Bam Bam is usually fun to watch, more wrestlers need notoriety for lethal headbutts.

How do people rate Hart/Razor? I thought it was VERY good. Probably needs a little more hype behind it. Hart was dead-set on making Razor pay for whatever this and that he did to Owen, and he’s completely a guy who’ll make even semi’tactical’ leg work look revenge-intended. His piss and vinegar section gets stopped by a balls amazing bump into the ring post. Razor (hobbling after the leg work) irish whips Hart while in the middle of the ring and Hart decides to slide and land rib-first into the post at 30 km/h. I guess Hall’s the type of wrestler to stop selling a leg injury after getting on offense. Hart does the opposite and sells the back. And Razor’s good working on it. Hart continues his revenge-filled thing by flinging at Razor and IDR how but they wind up on the outside and it was messy and awesome. Most of the rest of the match is a finish run, with the cool Bret Hart signature of reversing something into a pin when he gets a real chance. I totally bought that the backslide off of the Razor’s Edge would be the end. Feels like every time I watch a Bret Hart match I haven’t seen in a long time, it’s like I’m watching an excellent wrestler for the first time. He ain’t gonna show up on Raw, is he? ADDI- NVM, HABIT.

Wasn’t going to watch the rumble but decided to anyway. Highlights:
-Flair using Papa Shango to weaken Backlund and then tossing him out as an outdated tool. 
-FLAIR V. TENRYU.
-Hennig sprinting for Flair put an actual smile on my face, but not as big as the one Hennig had after eliminating Flair. 
-Taker’s tremendous back-bendy headbutt sell for Giant Gonazales’ debut. Actually the whole thing was pretty cool. You didn’t see Taker hit those kinds of bumps in the early 90s. If only it was a debuting Vader, or even, just, someone who didn’t suck.
-Hennig believably eliminated someone with a dropkick.
-Virgil holding back somebody’s arms for Hennig to punch, but Hennig not noticing and walking straight by it. Got a laugh out of me.
-The Headshrinkers getting lead to the ring by Afa pulling their hair, and then physically throwing them in.
-DiBiase furiously trying to get Hennig off of the apron was fantastic.
-The close-up camera shot of an exhausted Backlund after being in the ring for 45+ minutes.
-YOKO V. EARTHQUAKE.
Other notes: 
-Seemed like Lawler wanted a toe-to-toe with Flair but nobody let it happen (including Flair). 
-I was taken aback by the talent in this thing. Koko Ware gets in the ring so I focus on him for a bit, and it slips my mind that Bob Backlund, Ted DiBiase and Genchiro Tenryu are all sharing a ring. Nuts.
-I’d forgotten about the silly finish. He goes for a pinfall? Seriously?
-Tatanka got one of the bigger pops of the night.



This show was multiple times more enjoyable than any 2010 WWE PPV I’ve watched so far.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Forgot about Flair vs Santana on the same RAW as Perfect vs Taylor. Might need to see it again, tbhayley.

I wanted to watch Steiners vs Beverly Bros & Bossman vs Bigelow again b/c it felt I didn't pay proper attention to em and idk what made me distracted. Seriously couldn't tell you anything about Bossman vs Bigelow, despite my obvious hype for it & the fact that it wasn't a fatty slugfest which I expected.

Already went on about how I hated Michaels vs Jannetty; just a bunch of crap. A lot of arm work that didn't equal out to give a damn. They should have traded arm drags for 15 minutes, gave a dirty finish to keep it open for later in the year, & I would have been satisfied. Sherri was my favorite part.

I kind of love Hart vs Razor. So, let that sink in for ya. Part of me wants to say I prefer their KOTR match only b/c it was a sprint. Can't go wrong w/either.

That's a good Rumble match. Back when the match still had that fun of a lot of moving parts & incredible talent to really give it a ton of niche memories throughout. Shame how that seemed to fall away quickly as the 90's wore on & I never really got back into the gimmick. Giant Gonzales debut is totally great. Probably b/c he does it to Taker, but still. Instantly > his WCW tenure. In fact, I don't mind there series of matches. I have fun. Starting off w/Flair & Backlund has to be my favorite way to begin a Rumble. Kind of like what WWE tried in '05 w/Benoit & Eddie, only it mattered. It just worked. I'd be lying if I didn't do a needed TENRYU comment. b/c that dude was totally in a Royal Rumble. And targeted Flair immediately as he got in the ring. Excellent. Brief Undertaker & Tenryu interaction too. Tears of joy. iirc Yoko absolutely cleans house the moment he enters. I love how the company wanted to build around him as a mega threatening heel. As a kid I always wanted to boo him for winning over Savage & Backlund, but now, I'm fully copacetic that he did. Oh yeah, the entire time Carlos Colon was in the match I was giving him tons of shit and waiting for his jobber ass to be eliminated.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

At least if people boo Lesnar or cheer Cena instead then it's one way to get Cena liked by the fans.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I really enjoy Hart/Razor RR too, but oddly I too think I prefer their shorter sprint at KotR 1993 more. Both are excellent though. I know that spot you're talking about where Bret flies back first into the ring post, nobody, and I mean NOBODY takes a turnbuckle or ring post shot better than Bret Hart. Atleast from what I've seen. Bret's got some serious cajones because I don't know how you run or slide that fast into a post and not cheese out even a little bit. That's a mans man right there.

Yeah- if you want to see some more awesome Bigelow headbutts, watch the Hart/Bigelow match from KotR 1993. It's honestly one of my favorite matches ever, Bigelow was never better and Bret was unbelievable, having wrestled 12 minutes with Razor and 25 with Hennig the same night, he then goes 20 minutes with Bam Bam and delivers his 3rd classic of he night. It's worth a watch if your in the mood for early 90s WWF and haven't seen it recently.

Edit- of course people should boo Lesnar and cheer Cena if that's who they really want to win. I was merely saying that choosing to boo Lesnar just because you don't like that Vince won't pay for him to appear more seems silly, atleast to me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Uploaded this, it's on the new Savage DVD i believe, but i remember this on an old WWF World Tour VHS:

*Randy Savage vs Shawn Michaels (Munich, Germany 04.14.1992) (WWF World Tour)*


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Anyone here seen Dick Murdoch vs. Butch Reed? Those guys made headlocks feel like high spots.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

funnyfaces1 said:


> EDIT: So Cal was not lying. Butch Reed vs. Ric Flair ruled. Somehow the match was 90% headlocks and it was still fun to watch.


Of course I wasn't lying. I never am. MY WORD IS TRUTH.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Be the first to admit Michaels' 1993 is probably his weakest yr of his first run (98 really doesnt count) didnt hone his craft yet

The Flair/Santana match was pretty good as well, will probably start watching some of those old raw's since fuck the current product. Will probably catch that rumble as well as 1992 as I've never seen both

lol been saying if the streak had to end to end it w/ Punk back in 2013 for a while now :kobe9


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I really enjoy Hart/Razor RR too, but oddly I too think I prefer their shorter sprint at KotR 1993 more. Both are excellent though. I know that spot you're talking about where Bret flies back first into the ring post, nobody, and I mean NOBODY takes a turnbuckle or ring post shot better than Bret Hart. Atleast from what I've seen. Bret's got some serious cajones because I don't know how you run or slide that fast into a post and not cheese out even a little bit. That's a mans man right there.


Benoit is the only other guy that comes to mind when it comes to that spot. Waltman has flung himself rather hard into the turnbuckles a number of times too, iirc. Boss Man might be another, as is Perfect. _(he may have been the post, instead)_ Those a touch bit more sketchy. About 83% sure about Boss Man, tho. I know he bumps in outlandish ways for his size.

----------

Flair vs Reed rules & made sure that COTC wasn't a complete waste of time. The Doom vs Horsemen feud in 1990 was filled w/great stuff.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Benoit is the only other guy that comes to mind when it comes to that spot. Waltman has flung himself rather hard into the turnbuckles a number of times too, iirc. Boss Man might be another, as is Perfect. _(he may have been the post, instead)_ Those a touch bit more sketchy. About 83% sure about Boss Man, tho. I know he bumps in outlandish ways for his size.
> 
> ----------
> 
> Flair vs Reed rules & made sure that COTC wasn't a complete waste of time. The Doom vs Horsemen feud in 1990 was filled w/great stuff.



Ah, yes. Waltman takes a positively brutal front turnbuckle in that Raw match with Bret Hart. That's a super effective spot for getting sympathy, I wonder why no one ever does it anymore. If I remember correctly Bossman takes a nasty, nasty ring post in a match with Doctor Death that I've seen from Mid South where a straight geyser of blood shoots out of his head afterwards (obviously the blood is from the blade but w/e).

What's the best Butch Reed match for me to watch? I've only seen his Ghetto Street Fight with JYD and maybe 1-2 others and he never really blew me away.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

This is a list of Reed matches I was given when I asked for some a good bit ago:

vs. Jerry Blackwell (St. Louis, sometime in 1982)
vs. Iron Sheik (Mid-South, 4/8/83)
w/Jim Neidhart v Magnum TA & Mr. Wrestling II (Mid-South, 12/25/83)
vs. Skip Young (Mid-South, 9/23/84)
w/Ernie Ladd v Magnum TA & Master Gee (Mid-South, 11/4/84)
vs. Ric Flair (Mid-South, 8/10/85, 10/11/85, 11/8/85)
vs. Dick Murdoch (Mid-South, 9/22/85, 10/14/85)
vs. Buzz Sawyer (Mid-South, 12/31/85)
vs. Tito Santana (Prime Time Wrestling, 5/12/87)
w/Ron Simmons v Arn Anderson & Barry Windham (Starrcade '90) 

Reed's work in WCW usually proves to be worthwhile. About a 90/10 scenario, I'd say. Shame not much came from his stuff in WWF. The Murdoch matches are why you love pro wrestling. Even if Dick showed his hate by being a racist. But that's pretty much its charm.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Mr. Perfect vs Tito Santana (Saturday Night's Main Event 07.28.1990)*



Thought id upload it as it really is an excellent match IMO.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I kind of love Hart vs Razor. So, let that sink in for ya. Part of me wants to say I prefer their KOTR match only b/c it was a sprint. Can't go wrong w/either.





The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I really enjoy Hart/Razor RR too, but oddly I too think I prefer their shorter sprint at KotR 1993 more.
> 
> Yeah- if you want to see some more awesome Bigelow headbutts, watch the Hart/Bigelow match from KotR 1993. It's honestly one of my favorite matches ever, Bigelow was never better and Bret was unbelievable, having wrestled 12 minutes with Razor and 25 with Hennig the same night, he then goes 20 minutes with Bam Bam and delivers his 3rd classic of he night. It's worth a watch if your in the mood for early 90s WWF and haven't seen it recently.



I remember really liking Hart/Bigelow, but I have no memory of what Hart/Hall is like. If it's even 3/4 as good as the Rumble match I won't feel cheated. HYPE.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Anyone here seen Dick Murdoch vs. Butch Reed? Those guys made headlocks feel like high spots.


Probably one of the best matches ever. They have another great match on 10/14/85. There's one in 89 from NWA but I remember being disappointed by it.

adding to the Reed list Cody put out, there are some other Doom tags I remember digging a lot. v. Steiners from Clash X, Clash XI, and Capital Combat (also faced at Havoc 89 but I haven't seen that), v. Flair and Anderson from Havoc 90, v. RNR GAB 90. This shit should be on the newtork b/c it's PPVs and Clashes, right? I feel like I should watch it all again. They faced the Freebirds at WrestleWar 91 and I don't remember even hearing about that.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep, all of that Doom goodness is on the Network.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm not a big fan of Butch Reed's WCW or WWE run outside of Doom which ruled. Reed wasn't as athletic or as healthy as he was in his earlier years, and he wasn't really allowed to express any sort of character. Instead, he was just an enhancement talent that put on ten minute matches with five minutes dedicated to bearhugs. In Mid South from what I've seen, he's a lot more energetic and engages the crowd more often. I love how he tries to wrestle an athletic contest with his opponent, but if his opponent tries to mess around with him, he'll lay them out with punches. Reed is also really good on the mic, and he's at his best when he's angry. The shit that he would say to that woman that Dick Slater would bring around is reminiscent of what The Rock would later do.

The Reed vs. Flair broadway and their TV match are both really good. Former being a classic and the latter being a really fun match with a great ending. I just finished watching their other match (10/11/85). Another good outing, but the ending was completely botched and they went into the finishing stretch way too quickly. If the match was structured better, it would be on the level of the other matches.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Have been out of current wrestling for abit, I just checked the SSeries card on Wiki, it says "Sting vs Bray Wyatt" is taking place. This real?


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

Brock said:


> Uploaded this, it's on the new Savage DVD i believe, but i remember this on an old WWF World Tour VHS:
> 
> *Randy Savage vs Shawn Michaels (Munich, Germany 04.14.1992) (WWF World Tour)*


For the life of me I don't know why Vince believed Savage was too old and did not give him the year in a half feud he wanted with Shawn Michaels. Even though WWE's hardships of the mid 1990's I doubt they could of screwed that up and I know I would have sat through all the hokey BS to see what type of programs those guys could of done together. A real big miss opportunity.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Have been out of current wrestling for abit, I just checked the SSeries card on Wiki, it says "Sting vs Bray Wyatt" is taking place. This real?


 *The card is centered around a brutally (in a negative way) built (in a negative way) match between "Team Cena" vs "Team Authority" with the premise that if the Authority wins, they I believe are finished. Team Cena is Ziggler, Show, Rowan, Cena and Ryback vs Kane, Rollins, Luke "Team Playa" Harper (new IC champ), Rusev ( somewhat new US champ) and Henry.* Yes, you read that right HHH's kayfabe on screen job in on the line, it's technically a major ppv and HHH isn't even on the in-ring team. The build has had massive lapses in logic aside from this but what would one expect? Other than that, D*ean Ambrose vs Bray Wyatt in a regular contest *is on the books (in my opinion this has been built really well on SD, yet the Raw segments/ramblings have been terrible.). Other than that, I believe the only other matches on the card are an unbuilt *four-way tag for the belt between the Usoos, Rhodes Bros, Mizdow and Los Matadores*and finally *AJ Lee vs Nickii Bella*. I expect alot of shenanigans and some crap unnanounced matches to pass the time as well as a long main event filled with shenanigans that might go 45 or so minutes and a long Dean/Bray match. Panel is Paul E, BNB and Fandango


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Have been out of current wrestling for abit, I just checked the SSeries card on Wiki, it says "Sting vs Bray Wyatt" is taking place. This real?


The wikipedia reliance has been diminished upon all repair now.

It's Bray vs Ambrose, stemming from the ending to HIAC, btw.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

It must've been Cal who edited the Wiki page. Ah well, Ambrose/Wyatt still sounds good.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> -Virgil holding back somebody’s arms for Hennig to punch, but Hennig not noticing and walking straight by it. Got a laugh out of me.
> -The Headshrinkers getting lead to the ring by Afa pulling their hair, and then physically throwing them in.
> -The close-up camera shot of an exhausted Backlund after being in the ring for 45+ minutes


Crazy, now that you mention this stuff, I can still vividly picture it all in my head. And I haven't seen it since I was really little!

Wrestling just had so many more colorful characters back then. The Virgil moment made me lol even back then.




Hayley Seydoux said:


> That's a good Rumble match. Back when the match still had that fun of a lot of moving parts & incredible talent to *really give it a ton of niche memories throughout.*


That's a good way to put it.


What's the date of the really great RAW match between Ziggler/Barrett, please? The one I'm talking about is the one where the crowd was crazy into it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

6/23/14. Best Barrett match in his career. It's become one of "those" matches for me. Yeah, there are better matches out there, but I'd rather watch this over the most touted classics.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> 6/23/14. *Best Barrett match in his career*. It's become one of "those" matches for me. Yeah, there are better matches out there, but I'd rather watch this over the most touted classics.


I'm the Barrett expert here - opinions aside, that statement would have to be wrong.

xl1egs


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

*Raw #3, 1/25/93*

Savage/Repo Man have an all right match. Back story being Repo blindsided Savage and stole his hat, so Macho is vengeful to start the match w/ coming out before Repo Man is finished posing on the turnbuckle or something. Looked like it was kind of built around Savage having weak cut offs before finally getting a good one. What I really took from this, and the pre-match interview, is how into the Repo Man character Barry Darsow actually was. I mean he probably thought it was ridiculous and awful but he was all hyped and it seemed like he actually really cared about people buying it. Something like that.

Kamala is a babyface and I thought it was a small bucket of fun watching him have what was basically an extended squash with the Brooklyn Brawler. Brawler either hit forearms thinking they looked good, or hit forearms thinking they were fists. Was funny how Brawler tried to extended his hand for Kamala to shake and Kamala doesn’t even know what to do with it. Would have marked like crazy if he, like, bit it. The upside-down pin attempt actually got a chuckle at me this time (IIRC I thought it was nonsense while watching him face Doink or Yoko or whoever a while back). Hopefully face Kamala is continually a fun time. Also, Kamala did an awesome ducked-clothesline. Am I the only one who loves really good ducked-clothesline. That is, clotheslines that the opponent has to duck? IDK I just feel like too many wrestlers try to take it easy because they assume their opponent is a moron who won’t duck, so the wrestler that swings full-force makes a friend in me.

I remember a lot of people going sour on the Flair/Hennig LLT. I liked it. I didn’t love it, and it was messy for a bit, but I liked it. Had a couple of selling issues I guess because Flair loves to have people reverse him near the turnbuckle. I haven’t watched a lot of Flair in a while though and I love the headshots he takes. And he’s the fucking best at falling over. Even after a slap to the face, bitch will land flat on his ass and I’ll sit there like “DUDE, that TOTALLY was real to me, dammit.” Hennig only did one silly bump in the entire match and made up for it with an awesome one over the turnbuckle to the floor. Also sold the brass knuckled like a GOD and didn’t do the 420 degree flip thing he does when he’s a heel. I got fucked over by commercial breaks twice in this. First was just as Flair was getting his mean streak going, and second was, can I be real? I don’t remember. But I remember being annoyed at the time of the second commercial break. Match got messy somewhere in the mid-late until Flair did a figure four and had Hennig limping. I loved Hennig’s limping, bloody-faced Hulk Up. Not an excellent match, but when I have an argument with somebody over Hennig’s 93 being better than HHH’s 2000, I’ll use this as a bonus for Hennig. Final note; Bobby Heenan is the greatest personality I’ve seen in wrestling and will likely be the greatest I’ll ever see in wrestling. 

*Raw #4, 2/1/93*

Before the vid plays I see an ad for something called “PureTalk” where a mother literally rips her son’s thumbs off for spending money or something.

Tatanka and Damien Demento have an average wrestling match, Usually there’s a stiff clothesline or a shitty stomp for me to make comment on. This time there’s Damien Demento talking to the ceiling like he has an imaginary friend who’s attached to the top of his head.

VINCE MCMAHON CALLS BRUTUS BEEFCAKE ONE OF THE ALL TIME GREATS. 

I friggin love High Energy. Hopefully I get to see them in matches that go longer than the one they had on this show. It was like, a minute.

Doink/Typhoon I talked about a while back;


> Doink against fatties is an interesting case, but not the kind of match I usually like fatties to be in. Doink seems to take most of the match with holds and things that keep the big guys grounded, and if the fatty ever gets offense, he gets pissed and resorts to eye raking and head shoving. He does get caught in a couple of things, but he winds up winning anyway (albeit cheating to do so), so him taking so much of the match and then winning doesn’t make a fatty look very good. Not like these are meant to be squashes, either, so he should be stooging a lot more. This definitely wasn’t bad, but kind of ‘wrong’, I think.


I I’ll be a little less harsh on it now. A match like this was clearly designed to get Doink over (he was feuding with Crush), and it was like he cheated to win as soon as Typhoon started to get momentum. Clown can wrestle, but is still an asshole. Did it’s job, I guess.

Yoko has a fun squash with somebody named DeVito. I’m positive that is the same DeVito who was an annoying sack a shit in that ROH tag team with a just as annoying sack a shit partner. He looked terrible for a couple of seconds here. Vince and Savage try to get Duggan on the phone and he doesn’t pick up. Then when he does, he calls Yokozuna “Yakazuma”. 

This was a show filled with squashes, and they end it with a Luger squash. Oh, yeah, he debuted at the Rumble and I skipped over it. He was pissed pre-squash that they had an overweight woman hold up the Raw sign while he was in the ring. Didn’t see that coming. Looked fine in the match. Being the Narcissist he was doing flashy shit just for the fuck of it because he loves himself and why not put on a hammerlock when your opponent doesn’t even have a name. There was this section of guys in the crowd who were exaggeratingly excited for everything Luger did. Pinned the jobber with his pinky, too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I was fine w/Doink vs Typhoon although it wasn't nearly what I had hoped. I guess a pass on it too was the ol sometimes WWF/sometimes WCW logic where a guy in a tag team works a singles match & doesn't particularly look too strong vs the opponent b/c he's "inexperienced" in that field. I don't ask too many questions within the realms of kayfabe. Doink was meant to go over, so dominating a big guy en route to having to square off vs Crush - another "big" lad - felt spot on.

Still remember the Duggan phone shenanigans. Felt like anytime someone was on the phone on a RAW, it was always screwed up. Probably b/c it was dumb.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Sorry to interrupt guys.

Just watching Wrestlemania 30 again, not watched it fully in a couple of months. What are general ratings?

Also, I'm perfectly fine with a Wrestlemania having only average/ok matches as long as there are memorable moments. 

Mania 30 had a bunch of unforgettable moments and some good matches so for me it's one of the better Manias in recent history.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WrestleMania 30 - 16

Daniel Bryan Vs Triple H - **** - 5
Kane & The New Age Outlaws Vs The Shield - ** - 0.5
30 Man Over The Top Rope Andre The Giant Memorial Battle Royal - ** - 0.5
John Cena Vs Bray Wyatt - ***3/4 - 4
The Undertaker Vs Brock Lesnar - ***3/4 - 4
Vickie Guerrero Diva Championship Invitational Match - 1/2* - 0
Randy Orton Vs Batista Vs Daniel Bryan - *** - 2


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Perfect's 93 over HHH's 2000? Now that's an interesting one. I mean I can always try to support you on that with what I saw from Trips in 2000, but if I would pick a year from Perfect's career to argue for, it would be 1986.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Speaking of Perfect, everybody watch his match with Piper from an MSG show in 1990, can't remmeber the date but it's on youtube. Despite a shitty finish, it was absolutely fantastic and my favourite Piper match behind the Valentine one. However, I have only watch like seven Piper matches, so whatever. But yeah, speaking about Perfect so I thought I'd throw it out there because it needs some serious lovin'


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

It's on the network the Hennig/Piper match I believe, real good stuff

I was just talking Cody, about the Flair/Perfect match. I can see why some would not like it and some do, I'm in the camp that does. Love Flair's bumping and shthick during that match while Perfect hitting the Ali Shuffle is always a :mark: It could do better with a few mins shaved as it did drag abit, but solid match

Curt Henning :banderas


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I get sad Perfect wasn't babyface much in WWF, then I realize the stuff he got to do in the AWA, so it isn't too bad. Except for the part when that isn't as easy to access, unlike WWF's programming.

Gah.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yes, finally someone bought up Piper/Hennig. Love that match, despite the finish.

Been meaning to dig out my Hennig Pre WWF comp and watch some AWA stuff, like Hennig/Hanson. 

Although I'll probably start WWF 2001 this week.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Perfect's 93 over HHH's 2000? Now that's an interesting one. I mean I can always try to support you on that with what I saw from Trips in 2000, but if I would pick a year from Perfect's career to argue for, it would be 1986.


I've liked the few matches I've seen of Hennig in AWA, but that isn't much. Turns out I've had the AWA set for like two years and didn't have a fucking clue. I should really start that soon, especially because I purposely skipped watching some Blackwell just so I could see it on the comp. I was jokingly taking a stab at HHH's 2000 when I referenced it, btw, but when I finish the full year I won't be surprised at all if I think Hennig's 93 was much better. For all I know he isn't even around the full year, but Hennig in 93 has the Hart match that HHH has never touched. The Doink match is IMO almost as good as any HHH match, too, and the Terry Taylor match I thought was about as as good as any match HHH had on TV in 2000. So, IDK, take that for what you wiiill~~


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Wrestlemania XV:*

Hardcore Holly vs Al Snow vs Billy Gunn - ★★½
Owen Hart & Jeff Jarrett vs D'Lo Brown & Test - ★½
Butterbean vs Bart Gunn - LOL, flat out burial :lmao
Mankind vs Big Show - ★★
Road Dogg vs Ken Shamrock vs Val Venis vs Goldust - ★½
Kane vs Triple H - ★★
Sable vs Tori - N/A
Shane McMahon vs X-Pac - ★★
Undertaker vs Big Boss Man - ★
Stone Cold vs The Rock - ★★★¼

Not quite as horrible as I was led to believe but nothing worth watching other than the main event. And the cell match just to laugh at how dull it is. :lol

All the Russo SWERVES~! do my head-in with Chyna and HHH, though. Poor Foley killed himself for an entire year just to have a shit match with Big Show and nothing on this event was WM material at all. Main event is cool, specially in the last 5 minutes but both men had much better stuff together, including next month's PPV main event with that classic camera stunner!


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

What are the Matt-Jeff matches in 2009 like? Haven't seen any of them since they aired.


----------



## jawbreaker (May 16, 2009)

the best Hennig stuff is his Portland stuff

that is all


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*The Shield DVD/BD Coming Soon:* http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/wwe-network-destruction-the-shield-dvd/76330/


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

jawbreaker said:


> the best Hennig stuff is his Portland stuff
> 
> that is all


I've tried my best to find anything from Portland. The folks at PWO tout it as the best territory that nobody watched. What was their main television show and what year should I check out from Portland?

:lmao Triple H and Kane doing that ridiculous double turn.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ive got some Hennig Portland stuff, havn't dived into it yet, but this match interest me:

Curt Hennig & Billy Jack Haynes vs. Dynamite Kid & Buddy Rose (Portland 6/11/83)

as does another one with Rose: Curt Hennig vs. Buddy Rose (2/3 falls) (Portland 3/26/83)






More Hennig from Portland:






*Portland Channel HERE:* https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqxCzc892Qb_pdLhHk78flw


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just took a break from my Butch Reed binge to watch some Hennig. Didn't feel like delving too deep so I just watch Hennig/Hart KotR 1993 (one of the 10 greatest matches in wwe history IMO), Hennig/Flair Loser Leaves town (still one of the top 5-10 best matches in raw history IMO), Hennig/Bockwinkle 60 minute draw (just a perfect, PERFECT example of an old heel flat out making a new up and coming baby face), and finally Hennig/Piper (first time seeing it but I definitely loved it). Curt is a guy who I think if he had never gotten injured and had the motivation of a Steve Austin to be great could have gone down as one of the biggest stars ever. He truly had it all and when he was on not many have ever been better. I think I'm starting to believe he was even better as a face than as a heel though, and he's a tremendous heel.


----------



## jawbreaker (May 16, 2009)

Buddy Rose is on the very short list of best wrestlers ever (like, with Bockwinkel/Danielson/Austin), so yeah, those two matches are definitely worth it. That 3/26/83 match, if it's the one I'm thinking of, is absolutely worth watching. Honestly you can watch anything on that LegitProWrestling channel and it'll be good, but I've got a particular fondness for the Rose/Piper feud (1979-80) and the 82-83 stuff where Rose feuds with, then turns face and aligns with, Hennig and Billy Jack Haynes. There's some good stuff with a very young Matt Borne in I think 1981? I guess what I'm trying to say is watch it all, it really is one of the best territories. The 2/3 falls TV format is such a great style because it puts a basic structure in place and then allows the wrestlers to really get inventive with it, something Rose was particularly good at.

Yeah. Start with like, the '79 Rose-Piper feud and watch everything from there. There's so much good stuff it's unbelievable.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I'm watching Surivor Series 1999. Had no idea that Kurt Angle debuted at this event, against Shawn Stasiak no less. :lmao


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao Triple H and Kane doing that ridiculous double turn.


I've lost count of how many times Kane has turned since his debut up to this point. Big Show has barely debuted for over a month and he's already a face post-WM now. Undertaker can't be forgotten either because I've had no clue what he's supposed to be ever since the angle with him and Kane teaming up from the summer of 98. I don't even know the face and heel in this Corporation/Ministry feud. I already know Vince will be revealed as the higher power, but right now there is no clear alignment for them.

I can honestly say I wish I could magically run through the rest of the year and get to 2000 already.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I wanted some 80's stuff, clicked on a Maple Leafs Garden show from '84 b/c the main event was Andre vs Kamala in a Steel Cage. Glad I did b/c I had an absolute blast w/it.



Spoiler: rambles



*1)* Valentine vs SD Jones for IC Championship was first. Jones' offense was super unflashy, despite the commentary talking about how he loves to dance. Didn't mind any of it, granted once Valentine started to beat him down, that's when it got fun. Hammer rules. Does anyone agree? Gauging the reception b/c I actually like him a lot & feel as if I never mention it b/c he's not Bobby Eaton or a fatty. Finish was one of those wildly fun moments back when wrestling needed to hear the "official word" or had to wait and see what the ref's call was so the fans can either erupt w/pleasure or boos. Valentine hit a belly to back suplex on Jones from the apron into the ring, Jones appeared to have kicked out but only got his legs up at the three, not his shoulders. Valentine retained. Fans were pissed. Slow-motion replay showed the ref's called was solid. I'm smiling a lot after this.

*2)* Nikolai Volkoff had an average match vs Rocky Johnson. Another lively black babyface to take an L here. Suspect? Nah, it wasn't like they were jobbers... More of a funny observation of yesterday. Anyways this was fine. Still had fun b/c I was totally in the mood for this stuff, although I'm not gonna go out and call it special. Highlight was Volkoff hanging out in the corner to back Rocky off, went to adjust his tights, which was met w/immense heat as the fans thought he was trying to pull something illegal out. He looked at the fans like "what the hell guys? can't a Russian adjust his tights w/o thinking he's gonna cheat? this is why we hate you." I spend half of this ramble almost writing Koloff instead of Volkoff and I'm not sure why. Guess all heel Russian dudes in wrestling are the same to me.

*3)* Third was Smith & Dynamite Kid vs an enhancement talent/jobber duo of Goldie Rogers & something Bass. Forgot his first name, but he was actually really good. Both of the heels were. Thought this turned out to be quite awesome. Bulldogs came out like gangbusters w/their flashy & fast offense which immediately made the fans go nuts b/c it was such a drastic change of pace from the previous two matches. Heel dudes made em look like a million bucks. Better yet they just knew how to work that crowd so well. Before the match started Bass kept teasing to take off Goldie's jacket, but continued to stall three times over thanks to the reaction. Rogers was this guy who looked like he inspired Michael Hayes to be flamboyant. Bass had the typical 1980's jobber look where he was kind of chubby, bald, & didn't appear to be any kind of a threat. His tights said "Have a hard day's night" or something like that & I cracked up every time they were shown on camera. Format of this was kind of like those 20 minute tags you'd see in MSG, only shorted down to about 9. First five was the shine goodness of the babyfaces dominating. Then it did the proper transition into the heels finally planting their feet w/their assault. Smith lost his edge after he tried slapping a headlock on. Which I felt was odd, then it worked out considering his attempt to ground the rugged vets in their own "preferred" area backfired immediately. Bass dude had this neat way of hopping onto the middle rope which showed he was shockingly agile for a guy who could have had no actual athletic talent in his body. idk if any of you have seen Mascara Dorada's stuff from a modern day lucha point of view, but he has this jump up on the ropes walk spot & that is sort of similar to what this big, bald dude was doing. It ruled. Towards the end some rugged spots were done which is something I didn't expect to get. Chucked over the top rope & back body drops on the ramp (they had a WCW style ramp. I wished those stuck around) Bass attempted a top rope headbutt & he missed it. Which was probably my favorite part b/c the way he sold it was terrific. He ate the landing, then he proceeded to flop up right on his head & hang his body up for a few seconds before he quivered back down on the ground. I left loving these guys and they weren't even meant to be the stars of this. Finish was that awesome, omg this is 1984 you can't do something like that double team move from the Bulldogs where Smith held Goldie in a fireman's carry, Kid flew off the top rope to land a double stop on his back, jump off of Goldie & hit a headbutt on Bass. Crowd went ape. Yeah, I'm really glad I clicked this video. Doubt there is anything else this fun involving the jobber heel duo, but I'll keep my eyes peeled.

*4)* Andre vs Kamala in the cage was a treat. Of course it was probably better than any other steel cage match over the past five years - at least. Almost unbelievable to watch it as it felt like you were watching two real live freakish things claw at each other to the death. They're not people. They're something else. If you were flipping through the channels in 1984 & you saw this, you would either: stop changing b/c it was so damn interesting you had to see it or change it quick because the thought that someone is probably going to die scared you. Kamala had this awesome indifference to being in the cage. Some moments he loved it and appeared to like having Andre sequestered so he can maul him w/o anybody trying to stop him. Other times he felt uncomfortable being caged up & looked for any way out. He was on the opposite side of the door trying to claw his way through, for example. Andre being the gigantic wonder he was played a lot of this match on the ground. Kamala really thrashed him up during this. Rather stunning to see him play such a significant FIP, considering his WWF tenure wasn't used to seeing this. Crowd really had that "in awe" perception at times. Kamala was gouging away at Andre. Andre was lying on the floor, doing whatever he can to swat him away, covered in blood. Total whoa type stuff. Entire match was scrappy. There was considerable animalistic variations of hate w/o it even being forced upon. These guys knew it was a cage match & that meant blowoff + violence. It was terrific, or I felt it was. One moment saw Andre lying on his back w/Kamala attempting to go towards the door & in ultimate desperation Andre flings his left leg up & it actually connected on Kamala's back stopping him from walking. I know Andre is a giant but FFS. Dude could kick you hard enough while laying on the ground. Andre's essence of defense in not letting Kamala escape was kind of riddled w/fabulous moments like that. A good portion of it was using his giant body to block the door, even while getting his ass kicked. He would purposely stay in that corner so Kamala would have to think of something else to win. I haven't mentioned it yet, Kamala's handler Friday added his own flare to this. Kept pestering the ref to open the door & let him assist Kamala. Few times it seems as if those two would come to blows. I miss cool stuff such as that. Then again, don't we all? Andre wins this shit by jumping off the motherfucking top rope w/a whoopie cushion. Well, I lost it. Highlight of it all was Andre rolling off Kamala's knocked out body, looking square at the ref and making a confident gesture + point that said "hey ref, open up that door, I totally got this." Think Joe Mayo telling people their job assignments on Seinfeld. This. Was. Great.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I gave the Andre/Kamala cage like four stars a half a decade ago and everyone else thought it was **3/4. I have more faith that it holds up a little more now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Anyone who doesn't want to give the cage match a million snowflakes should be blacklisted.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Now I wanna see it .

Downloaded a pack on XWT Classics the other day for Rose Vs Hennig. Totally gonna watch it at some point. Honest. Promise. I TOTALLY WILL YOU CUNTS.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I really should get on w/that 80's project. I'm gonna nominate Andre vs Kamala b/c fuck it, I loved it & wrote some stuff on it. _(btw Cal I'm gonna go look at some matches I posted about all those months ago and see if I want to give the nod to em b/c I don't think I commented if I did. Telling you b/c you can edit the OP...)_ Looked in the AWA thread b/c I knew it was getting traction from jawbreaker & company. Yeah, I have to seek more of this company out. Probably watch some of the Midnight Rockers tags I own to contribute in my beginning stage.

I should buy the Mid-South set atm.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Speaking of Hennig, listings for Will's set in case anyone wants a reference:



Spoiler: Hennig Pre WWF



Curt Hennig: Pre WWF

Goodhelmet

Disc 1

Curt Hennig & Dominic DeNucci vs. Johnny Rodz & Jose Estrada (MSG 11/23/81)
Curt Hennig vs. Bulldog Brower (Landover 11/29/81)
Larry & Curt Hennig vs. Buddy Rose & Rip Oliver (2/3 falls) (Portland 4/3/82)
Larry & Curt Hennig vs. Buddy Rose & Rip Oliver (2/3 falls) (Portland 4/10/82)
Curt Hennig vs. Ray Stevens (Championship Wrestling 11/6/82)
Curt Hennig vs. Eddie Gilbert (MSG 11/22/82)
Curt Hennig vs. Buddy Rose (2/3 falls) (Portland 3/26/83)

Disc 2

Curt Hennig vs. The Convict (Prison Yard Match) (Portland 4/23/83)
Curt Hennig vs. Ali Hassan (Iranian Death Match) (Portland 4/30/83)
Curt Hennig vs. Buddy Rose (Portland 5/14/83)
Curt Hennig vs. Buddy Rose (Portland 5/28/83)
Curt Hennig & Billy Jack Haynes vs. Rip Oliver & The Assassin (Portland 6/4/83)
Curt Hennig & Billy Jack Haynes vs. Dynamite Kid & Buddy Rose (Portland 6/11/83)

Disc 3

Curt Hennig & Billy Jack Haynes vs. Rip Oliver & The Assassin (Portland 6/18/83)
Curt Hennig, Billy Jack Haynes & Buddy Rose vs. Dynamite Kid, Rip Oliver & Assassin (Portland 6/25/83)
Curt Hennig vs. The Assassin (End only) (Portland 7/2/83)
Curt Hennig vs. The Assassin (Coal Miner’s Glove) (Portland 7/9/83) (Shaky VQ)
Curt Hennig & Buddy Rose vs. Rip Oliver & The Assassin (Portland 11/5/83) (Fair VQ)
Curt Hennig & Buddy Rose vs. Dynamite Kid & The Assassin (Portland 11/12/83)

Disc 4

Curt Hennig, Billy Jack Haynes & Buddy Rose vs. Dynamite Kid, Rip Oliver & Assassin (Portland 12/17/83)
Curt Hennig vs. The Assassin (Portland 1/5/84)
Curt Hennig, Matt Borne & Buddy Rose vs. Ed Wiskowski, Rip Oliver & Assassin (Portland 3/10/84)
Curt Hennig vs. Harley Race (Clip) (St. Paul 9/9/84)
Jerry Blackwell vs. Bruiser Brody (JIP) (St. Paul 10/84)
Curt Hennig vs. Nick Bockwinkel (Winnipeg 11/22/84)
Curt Hennig vs. Mr. Saito (Winnipeg 12/27/84)

Disc 5

Curt & Larry Hennig vs. Nick Bockwinkel & Mr. Saito (St. Paul 1/13/85)
Curt Hennig & High Flyers vs. Terry Funk, Nick Bockwinkel & Steve Regal (Minneapolis 3/10/85)
Curt Hennig & Baron Von Raschke vs. Road Warriors (JIP) (Minneapolis 4/28/85)
Curt Hennig & Greg Gagne vs. Ray Stevens & Nick Bockwinkel (Winnipeg 6/13/85)
Curt Hennig & Tom Zenk vs. Nick Bockwinkel & Larry Zbyszko (JIP) (Minneapolis TV 8/25/85)
Curt Hennig & Tom Zenk vs. Long Riders (Winnipeg 9/19/85)
Curt Hennig, Greg Gagne & Scott Hall vs. Ray Stevens, Nick Bockwinkel, & Larry Zbyszko (Super Clash 9/28/85)
Curt Hennig & Scott Hall vs. Steve Regal & Jim Garvin (Atlantic City 11/14/85)

Disc 6

Curt Hennig & Nick Bockwinkel vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenyru (JIP) (All Japan 11/23/85)
Curt Hennig vs. Jumbo Tsuruta (All Japan 12/4/85)
Curt Hennig & Nick Bockwinkel vs. Stan Hanson & Ted Dibiase All Japan (All Japan 12/7/85)
Curt Hennig vs. Stan Hansen (Oshkosh 2/1/86)
Curt Hennig & Scott Hall vs. Bill & Scott Irwin (Wrestlerock 4/20/86)
Curt Hennig vs. Stan Hansen (Las Vegas 5/31/86)
Curt Hennig & Midnight Rockers vs. Buddy Rose, Doug Somers, & Alexis Smirnoff (Battle by the Bay 6/28/86)
Curt Hennig & Scott Hall vs. Buddy Rose & Doug Somers (TV 8/19/86)
Curt Hennig vs. Col. Debeers (TV 11/23/86)

Disc 7

Curt Hennig vs. Nick Bockwinkel (Brawl in St. Paul 12/25/86)
Curt Hennig vs. Nick Bockwinkel (TV 12/31/86) 60 Minute Time Limit AWA Championship (Taped 11/15/86)
Curt Hennig vs. Nick Bockwinkel (Las Vegas 3/7/87)
Curt Hennig & Greg Gagne vs. Boris Zhukov & Soldat Ustinov (End only) (Minneapolis 4/19/87)

Disc 8

Curt Hennig vs. Nick Bockwinkel (Superclash 2; 5/2/87)
Curt Hennig vs. Wahoo McDaniel (Las Vegas 11/20/87)
Curt Hennig vs. Greg Gagne (JIP) (MN 11/26/87)
Curt Hennig vs. Tiger Mask (All Japan 1/2/88)
Curt Hennig vs. Jerry Lawler (Memphis 5/9/88)
Curt Hennig vs. Baron Von Raschke (JIP) (Las Vegas 5/14/88)
Curt Hennig vs. Jerry Lawler (Las Vegas 7/16/88)



*Shawn Michaels vs Davey Boy Smith (WWF IYH: Beware of Dog)*

Pretty good match here, not as good as KOTR, IMO, but still good. Always love Davey's power moves in his matches against HBK, Michaels takes a great bump off of a criss-cross sequence to the arena floor. HBK does a sort of 'freak out' whilst he has Bulldog in a chinlock, one point he shouts at Hebner, who then goes to the ropes to talk to someone it looks like, and after the match, HBK goes straight over to the timekeeper and give him an earful, did anything come out over this, was he unhappy with the time or something?

The ref bump too. :lol Flew a mile it looked like.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

IIRC Michaels called out a woman in the audience and said something along the lines of "shut up, fat skank."


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Oh. 

Watching Beware of Dog, forgot how good the Austin/Vega Strap Match was.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Cesaro vs Sheamus (22/05/2014 Dublin Live Event) - not quite what I hoped from these guys, but this was smart pro-wrestling. I don't wish to sound reaching, but if this had happened on a recorded show, it might be right up there with some of the best TV stuff of the year. In a world where dreams are answered, this would be a 12 minute bomb-throwing sprint. However, we're left with a lengthy shine, enhanced by some terrific Cesaro stalling, that leads into a great Cesaro beatdown and grand finishing stretch. Why would I complain? If there's any reason as to why these two are the cream of WWE's crop, it's in how they layered this match, ensuring a simple powerslam nearfall erupted the crowd into a frenzy. You even hear an older women scream out "oh my god" at one point and it's just fantastic. I know it's one of Sheamus' signature moves, but it's still a powerslam. A lot of guys hit impressive high spots to crickets. 

What also works in their favour is that their signature spots have a logical progression into each other. The Brogue Kick/German suplex and Neutraliser/White Noise are so fluidly countered to and from. Of course that's what would play into their finish, then. Props to Sheamus on taking the first German suplex to the back of his skull. It added enough difference to how he played it off, when they did a recall in the finishing spot, that you could buy the fact he had learnt his lesson and rolled through with the power in order to make the running comeback. Like I said, smart pro-wrestling. I wish the camera was closer in, so we could see and, most importantly, hear the nasty strikes and uppercuts that littered this match, but finally seeing the uncut version of this more than makes up for it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just watched a couple of Bryan matches that I had not seen in forever.

Bryan vs Wyatt (Royal Rumble) - ★★★¾
Bryan vs Punk (Over the Limit) - ★★★★¼

Surprised by how good the latter turned out to be and nothing like what I remember. All the counters and moves were executed beautifully and in a fluid manner. Bryan was the better worker but Punk kept up pretty well for the most part. My only issue is a minor one but that's the limb work that never results in anything. There's Bryan's leg that gets sold for the first few minutes but then gets completely forgotten about as the match progresses then Punk's ribs which is brought up a couple of times early on but never comes into play again until the last 2-3 minutes when Bryan starts kicking him there after the elbow drop. Otherwise, this is excellent and one of both men's best matches.

Next up I'll revisit Bryan vs Cena from SummerSlam because it's been a long time too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Think I gave Punk/Bryan ****3/4 when I wrote up on here not too long ago. Damn near perfect imo. Great callbacks to ROH too , like Punk's "I have 'till five', mimicking Bryan. A classic.

Reminds me, need to get back to my Bryan ROH Champion project soon.


----------



## mezomi (Jul 13, 2013)

*Match Rating Thread*

Rate the matches of the show on a five star basis as the show progresses. GO!!!


----------



## Jackal (Nov 6, 2014)

*Re: Match Rating Thread*

Cesaro/Swagger - **
Tag Match ***


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Two questions regarding that tag math:
*Is that Sandow's first piece of gold in WWE*? Didn't think the Rhodes scholars got any but I could be wrong. 
Remarkably enough, *was that the first german suplex the Goldust character has thrown?* Gdust missed the periods of german suplex happy ring product in the E. I would venture to think Dustin has thrown a german at some point in his WCW tenure or when heavy as Black Rain, but can't recall him throwing one in WWE. Probably wrong though considering Gdust's years of service.


----------



## MrJamesJepsan (Mar 31, 2013)

*Re: Match Rating Thread*

F4W Tag Match - **3/4
Divas Tag - **


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Wyatt and Ambrose just killed it. Awesome match. Think I'll go ****1/4 on it for first watch. Hard hitting back and fourth type of match I love.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That match was basically what Jericho/Wyatt should have been. I liked their Battleground match, but the fact that the match ended in a simple and clean fashion did not really show how Jericho was bothered by whatever Wyatt was doing. That match should have ended similarly to what we saw here. Loved how Ambrose and Bray skipped the bullshit and just hit their shots. And that match did its job, which is getting us hyped for TLC.

EDIT: :lmao Rusev wearing flip flops


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Ambrose-Wyatt was fucking awesome!

Love the finish, they're obviously setiing up a TLC match, imagine the stuff those could do in that match?

****1/4.

***1/4 for the 4 way tag, enjoyed that too.


----------



## Jackal (Nov 6, 2014)

*Re: Match Rating Thread*

Divas traditional - ***
Bray/Ambrose - **1/2 (build for TLC match)
Bella match - **


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Austin/Mcmahon podcast if on Steve's terms with an honest Vince *really, really* interests me. Outside of company-spun, politiced bullshit, we don't have much of an account of Vince Mcmahon's personal opinions on events. This man has a direct or indirect link to every relevant event in the business in the last 32 years. Steve Austin always brings the best out of his guests and has great conversations. If this is on Steve's terms and not company line questions, this could really be an amazing podcast. Hell, you could do twenty volumes with Vince and not get through everything. I'm skeptical, but this has GOAT potential.

edit: that said, if this is WWE sponsored and purely for the network, than all we will get is the ususal revisionist history. Steve still has some affiliation to WWE as well so that too kinda clouds my hopes but at the same time Jericho maintains affiliations with WWE, had Triple H on and those two had very good conversations.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WrestlingOracle said:


> Remarkably enough, *was that the first german suplex the Goldust character has thrown?* Gdust missed the periods of german suplex happy ring product in the E.


He was around for most of 02/03, at least.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Fatal Four Way Tag Match: ****1/4*
Divas SvS Tag: *NO!*
Dean Ambrose vs. Bray Wyatt: *****1/4*
Rose/Bunny vs. Slater Gator: *NO!*
AJ vs. Nikki Bella: *NO!*
Team Ziggler vs. Team Authority: *****3/4*

THAT MAIN EVENT!


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Holy shit that Main Event

They made Ziggler a star

Going ****1/4 for it right now, but might go higher on a rewatch. Perfect booking


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

What a main event. Didn't think anything would top Wyatt/Ambrose when it happened for tonight, but that main event was amazing. I have to rewatch them both, but that main event was something else. Going ****1/2 on it for now.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

****1/2 for the main event. Did not expect that at all. Absolutely incredible from start to finish and they made a genuine star in Ziggler.

2 great matches and 1 good, good show overall.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I didn't watch the entire PPV, but I decided to catch the main event. SO GLAD I DID. ZIGGLER BECAME A FUCKING GOD :sodone


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> I didn't watch the entire PPV, but I decided to catch the main event. SO GLAD I DID. ZIGGLER BECAME A FUCKING GOD :sodone


GREATEST ENDING TO A PPV ENDING EVER I AM :sodone:sodone:sodone


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Utterly speechless, Greatest thing I've ever seen no hyperbole, so proud of the best wrestler in the company, :ziggler2 da GAWD best babyface also

SO awesome, will always have this match :zayn3

Gonna cry tears of joy

Havent marked that hard since the raw after mania 29


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Despite the fact that Rollins laid there for like an hour and still got pinned, that was pretty amazing.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

Was disappointed in Bray vs Ambrose. It was clearly just a preview for next month. Nothing happened that I even remember.....like at all. And I just watched it 2 hours ago.

Main Event was the best match of the PG era. In my opinion, truly magical. Rest of the show sucked, not gonna lie.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

I do not give a shit what anybody says, that was fucking great. Fantastic main event, great show overall. 

Got goosebumps a couple of times there. Brilliant work from everyone involved, props to the crowd too for being so into everything.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Really cool for Stinger to finally make his presence in the E and show up without official announcement, and I really do hate that I have to throw a but in here, BUT ehh I guess I was always fixated on if Sting comes in it has to be for Sting/Taker. just don't think that's Hunter's place to be in THAT moment: Sting's WWE debut. * To be fair, I suppose one could argue though that with Sting's legendary history of fighting factions ala the Horsemen, NWO, to a lesser level the Dangerous Alliance, heck on a far lesser level even in TNA fighting Jarrett's goons and Aces and Eights: it is fitting for Sting to come in and take down the authority. Plus, if Taker can't go, this is the next best thing, but still to me, if Taker can't go I'd hold off. * The rest was awesome though. edit: you know, one year we have a fascinating phenomina in Bryan, the Streak ending and Sting's debut. Certainly, as bad of luck as the roster has had and as bad as the booking has been at times, this year boasted alot for the history books.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Yeah, main event was good, Ziggler, yeah, yeah it's all great.

All I wanna know is when the fuck are they gonna print some Sting T-shirts?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Idk why they made Ryback look like a GEEK after weeks of build. Glad Harper and Rusev were protected, though.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The main event was legendary. Ziggler's performance was legendary. Wow.

And how the fuck can you not mention Sting? THAT WAS A FUCKING MOMENT. :mark: I fucking flipped out and lost it. I expected Randy, and I got Sting. :mark: One of the best moments I can remember watching. Thank god I decided to watch.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

On two related notes (sorry for double post), props to Ziggler for doing a really damn good job there with the actually successful Michaels 03 impression on a pg (and less corny) scale. A question for you though, would you guys have changed the production? I always thought Sting's debut ought to have the modernized WWE version of Starrcade 97's intro with wwe production values. I could see where one could say that was best though and save the kick up in production for mania.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm just gonna say it. I honestly wouldn't go more than ***1/2 on the main event. Maybe a re-watch would change my mind but I just didn't find it was a great match outside of ZOMG Sting. I'm not a fan of wrestlers who play dead and then bust out a big move and go back to playing dead. Which is what Ziggler did the entire match. For example, when Harper was setting up the powerbomb, Ziggler was just lying there between his legs...uhh...no ****. He didn't try to fight it off or anything like that to make it seemed like he had life in him, so when he did kick out it just felt dull (or scripted). 

Then there were other issues such as Seth Rollins laying on the mat with his eyes wide opened when he was supposed to be knocked out. I don't know if anyone noticed but when HHH came in to drag Seth's 'lifeless' body to cover Ziggler's, his eyes were open a couple of seconds before and you can see when he closes them. I don't understand why he had them open anyway. All he had to do was feel HHH grab his arm. He had no reason to look out for him. 

I just don't thin many people would be throwing out ****+ reviews of it if Sting didn't debut. And the argument can be made that it's a **** match the sole fact of Sting's presence. But honesty, I don't feel the work itself is worthy of anything more than ***1/2. In fact, before Sting showed up, I was saying to myself it felt like a really bad, drawn out PWG match that's deliberately slow and showcases an overselling babyface who overcomes the odds just to make it feel epic. In reality it's not and it's all smoke and mirrors.

Maybe things will change on a rewatch but that's how I genuinely feel about the match.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Firstly, I have little to no connection to Sting whatsoever having only started watching wrestling about 8 years ago. I saw some of his TNA work and have never had any interest in seeing him have another match. But I always new that his debut in WWE would be a great moment and it was.

Secondly, I would personally rate the match somewhere around **** and ****1/2 stars. I thought it was about there long before Sting showed up. Perhaps I was just more invested in the storyline than you were. I thought they had a great build for this match and the stakes were actually quite high.

Some people might elevate the match a little because of Sting, but with or without him I'd give it the same high rating..


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

They definitely did a great job making the match feel huge and important, and the crowd's nonstop investment is proof of that. Kudos on that front.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Main event was the first time I've marked like a ten year old since 2011.

YOU MADE IT DOLPH

If I wasn't getting up for work in five hours I'd watch that match again right now. I was so into it. Especially the final stretch with the 3-on-1. THAT is how you make someone.

I know they'll find a way to piss me off in the future, but that was fantastic booking by WWE. They made themselves a star and showcased Rusev/Rowan/Harper/Rollins on a major PPV that was free to a ton of people.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Not gonna type a whole lot because I'm on my phone but by fucking god if that main event didn't make me mark harder than I have in months. I'm not sure what it's gonna be like if Sting actually wrestles, but tonight was absolutely epic. For a minute I thought they might pull a double swerve and have Stinger shake his hand, but thank god they didn't. Incredible performance from Ziggler. Harper & Rollins looked fantastic as well (aside from laying on the mat for 5 minutes ).

Thought the rest of the show was nothing special. Opening tag was fun because of Mizdow. Bray/Dean was good for the most part but I was just sitting there waiting for the non-finish to lead to another match so it didn't have much of an effect on me. Rest of the show was either shit or worthless. I might ACTUALLY watch Raw tomorrow!


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:mark:


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Without Ziggler's performance, it's still a good match but not great. Ziggler's performance was legendary, I'm telling you. WWE has to capitalize on this. That was HBK '03 but with the good guy coming out on top this time.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'm definitely more excited for Raw than I have been in ages, though they have to tread lately with faces in power. That storyline almost never works unless a good new antagonist steps up.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

RatedR10 said:


> Without Ziggler's performance, it's still a good match but not great. Ziggler's performance was legendary, I'm telling you. WWE has to capitalize on this. That was HBK '03 but with the good guy coming out on top this time.


It was honestly surreal. Everything that WWE does had me believing it was just a matter of time until he went down. The clothesline from Harper got me nervous. The powerbomb got me extremely nervous. And just about everything during the Rollins part got me nervous. The pedigree had me shitting myself (I avoided all spoilers this week) and holy shit it was just a surreal moment when he won. DOLPH ZIGGLER is the one to take down the authority. It's amazing.

It's moments like this that remind me why I've been a wrestling fan for 16 years.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> For a minute I thought they might pull a double swerve and have Stinger shake his hand, but thank god they didn't. Incredible performance from Ziggler.


Yeah, I also thought this. When Trips threw a punch and missed I knew the night was made. Dolph was just at his prime tonight, and the crowd really ate it up. Sting debuting added to that - best PPV ending I've witnessed bar none. Excellent stuff.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Now that Sting has arrived, what are dirtsheets going to talk about all the time? :lmao


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

CM Punk.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Knowing Cena, do you guys think he will give his title shot against Lesnar to Ziggler, in order to suck ass and talk about how Ziggler deserves it.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

People can argue with technical faults in that match ie: 3 on 1 with two guys in close proximity and a 5 count before DQ, why didn't Rollins break up Kane or Harper's pin when they were right there or the whole Rusev not counting before the table breaking technicality, heck we can even argue the point of having Ryback be built as the swingman for this match for three weeks only to have that showing, but I don't think we can argue that ending. Wrestling's magic is so elusive, but I feel that ending captured some with just the perfection in the execution of it from the teased screwjob to the Scott Armstrong callback to Sting's debut to that sick Scorpion Death Drop to the finish alligned with Sting's prolific history in fighting stables. I know many rate matches' parts equally on the whole, but I think with this one we have a special case. For Dolph's performance and that ending alone, I am willing to go 4 and a quarter personally.

Edit: Remember, the number one test of a wrestling match is to be fun and ENTERTAINING and when things go right on rare occasion maybe be for a brief time sucked into the journey with the performers. I'd be hard pressed to believe that the final stretch of that match didn't do that for all of you. Doesn't get a whole lot better these days for final stretches.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Superkick said:


> CM Punk.


lmao true.

Plus it's almost Rumble time so we'll get the "(insert random midcarder from the mid 2000's) returning at Royal Rumble?" ones.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm shocked to say that they actually have alot that they can do at TLC that would get me excited. I'd LOVE to see Harper and Rowan go one-on-one, Ziggler getting rewarded with a U.S. Title match against Rusev would be sweet, plus it looks like Reigns will be on the card. Orton vs. Rollins TLC match for the briefcase would be a doozy.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Sting showing up in a WWE ring for the first time ever and Dolph defeating 3 Team Authority members by himself to be the sole survivor had me like









Haven't marked out that hard since Bryan beat Triple H and won the WWE WHC at Mania earlier this year. It's awesome to feel like a 10 year old again. Dolph's gotta be a MAIN EVENT PLAYA now. The dude definitely showed the world :ziggler2


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

SVS Ratings:

Fatal Four Way Tag Match: ***1/4
Divas SvS Tag: 1/4*
Dean Ambrose vs. Bray Wyatt: ****1/4
Rose/Bunny vs. Slater Gator: DUD
AJ vs. Nikki Bella: DUD
Team Cena vs. Team Authority: ****1/2



Spoiler: SVS review with spoilers



Such a mixed bag PPV. All of the legit matches were good. The opening was really good and Sandow finally getting to get in the ring and pin someone to win the tag titles was a moment in itself. The crowd popped big for it and they still have ways to go now before breaking up Miz and Mizdow. I think they could get a 3 month reign out of them and then build up for a match at Wrestlemania... although I also think they could potentially stretch it out to MITB (or whatever the July PPV will be) and then build for a match at Summerslam. That might be too long though, so let's see how the next couple of months play out. There should definitely be a spot in the Rumble with either Sandow eliminating Miz or Miz eliminating Sandow. But yeah, awesome ending. The match itself though does deserve kudos as it kept at a nice pace and had some exciting stuff in it. 

The 4 on 4 divas tag match was awful... giving it 1/4* though for the "Let's go Mizdow" chants... <_<

Ambrose/Wyatt was two guys throwing bombs at each other and it was awesome. The match was back and fourth and the pace was EXCELLENT. The two just put it all out there. Wyatt had one of the sickest looking clotheslines on Ambrose that I've ever seen. Also had some nice storytelling elements at the end, although I don't think the mic was necessary. Wyatt could've just yelled it at Dean and it would've worked. Also Dean deciding to hit Wyatt with the chair, while at first I thought was a pretty weak way to end the match, I now see the brilliance of it. It really differentiates Dean from the likes of Cena, and it builds to Ambrose and Wyatt's next match. The aftermath as well does that, with Ambrose introducing all the elements of the TLC match to give us a small preview of what's to come. But the match itself was an awesome, top of the line match. As far as singles matches go, I'd call it Wyatt and Ambrose's best match in WWE. I really didn't think any other match on the card would top this.

That Rose/Bunny vs. Slatergator match was... well... it was, and now thankfully it's finished. 

The AJ/Nikki match, and what they did... is pretty stupid. I'm also confused... is Brie a heel now? Brie was all smiley but the commentators really didn't make a big deal out of it like they normally would in a heel turn. I also don't understand it tbh. Was this really their plan all along? So it was in the plan for Nikki to screw Brie out of her match with Stephanie, which stems back to Brie quitting due to Bryan's issues with the Authority and relinquishing the title? It's just extremely far-fetched. Anyway, the match was nothing so I can only give it a DUD.

The main event was incredible. The start was pretty weird with Show eliminating Henry with a very weak looking knockout punch. Another thing I question was how they disposed of Ryback first for Team Cena. They build him up for weeks and then just job him out right at the start? That's some fucked up shit. I can forgive it because of how the match ended up, but I really don't understand what WWE was trying to do here. I suppose at least they somewhat protected Ryback as it took two finishers in a row to put him down. Moving on things got much better. Rusev's elimination was well done. He looks dominant, but makes one mistake and gets counted out. He avoids getting pinned/submitted, and they get him out of the way. Rowan and Harper get their interaction and the better of the two (and the IC champion for that matter) gets the win in their exchange to Rowan is out. Big Show turning heel for the millionth time is what it is, but turning on Cena and actually having Cena get eliminated at that point in the match was a shocker. It was awesome as well because for once WWE allowed someone else to be the hero, and someone very deserving in Ziggler. Ziggler does what he does best and that's make the other guy's offense look like a million bucks. He eliminates Kane and Harper as expected, although the fact Harper got rolled up keeps him looking relatively strong. Ziggler looks good against Rollins and has him beat on a couple of occasions only to get screwed over by The Authority. HHH comes in, beats up Ziggler, and all looks like it's going to go down as normal, with Ziggler failing to overcome the odds...

... but then Sting comes out. TBH, I wasn't a fan of this. First of all, I think it should've been Orton with the history he has with The Authority. Plus with it being in St. Louis it would've gotten a huge pop that would've made the ending even better. Second of all, Sting finally making his WWE debut does overshadow the end as I'd imagine more people will be talking about that Sting debuted as opposed to Ziggler surviving and winning for his team. Lastly, that staredown with HHH was way too long and it confirms we're getting Sting/HHH, which is a huge bummer because it probably means Taker won't be competing at Mania. Not only that, but I have no interest in seeing Sting/HHH. It really feels like WWE is trying to piece something together since The Undertaker can't compete, but it doesn't feel organic. I suppose there aren't any better options though as far as big time matches for Sting goes, but then again I don't need to see Sting wrestle in just any match either. There are only a couple of guys I'd like to see him face.

Anyway, Sting comes in, Ziggler gets the pinfall and wins the match! Ziggler looked like a star and this puts Ziggler over big time. However, WWE need to capitalize on this and not just go back to Ziggler getting jobbed out week after week. Otherwise what they did at SVS will go to waste. 

All in all, despite half the card being awful, the rest of it was really good and had some satisfying endings that ultimately made me enjoy the show.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

This likely will never happen, but it is interesting that "only Cena has the power to bring back the authority". Cena can now turn completely to his obssession of taking down Lesnar. I would have to think that Dolph Ziggler now has his foot in the door to be a legitimate star given the performance of his life on this wide platform. Dolph, the WWE hype machine fully behind Reigns, Dean Ambrose rising, Ryback, news on Daniel Bryan coming back looking more optimistic,perhaps WWE's biggest potential face weapon in Zayn in WWE's "back pocket", Randy. I'll believe a Cena heel turn when I see it, but if they decide they can cover for Cena with the volume of potentially strong faces they are building, I could see a scenerio where Cena is so consumed with beating Lesnar he brings back the Authority and going into Mania we have a Gberg (Reigns) vs Hogan (-Cena) with authority angle while HHH goes after Sting;this scenerio could be a real possibility if WWE knows they will lose Lesnar. Cena's merch numbers are very strong, but the combined power of so many potential star babyfaces over on big levels with crowds could come near Cena's numbers. As for WWE as a global company with potential business partners casting corporate eyes and Cena being such the go to guy for that, you can still yield similar partnerships, you could just have a guy like Reigns represent and hell Cena can still do "make a wishes", WWE just wouldn't have to publicize it to the fanbase. Heel Hogan initially in WCW still played that role. 

Will it happen? No I really doubt it given Cena is WWE's one constant and the ultimate corporate clean cut dedicated guy, but WWE has the right cards to make the hand if they wanted to "shake things up". Just a thought.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Become a big fan of Rowan these past couple of weeks. Certainly a unique face and I'm liking it a lot. Hopefully they don't turn him into a comedy jobber once he loses his feud to Harper.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Either wrestling is dead to me or I wasn't in the right mood or I just have completely different tastes because that main event didn't do much for me. I'm shocked by the ****1/2+ ratings I'm seeing for it. What exactly was great about it? Not sure why Ziggler's performance is being praised as something incredible. Sure he was good but for the most part that was standard Ziggler. Is it just because they let him be the star rather than Cena? Saw Show punching Henry to start the match coming from miles away and hated it. Heel turn was ridiculous (I haven't been following the product but how many times can one guy turn and why the hell would he turn mid-match after eliminating Henry? Did he just say fuck it we're down 3 to 2 so I give up? I don't get it or like it). Never ever bought into the idea of The Authority winning. Knew to expect Sting. Didn't care for Sting. The stuff I did enjoy like Rusev's overall showing, the Harper/Rowan clash, and Ziggler getting to shine all felt like nice standalone segments to me, as opposed to good parts of a really good whole. I wouldn't say watching the match was a waste of my time, far from it, but I'm sure as hell not calling it a great match.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I missed the entire event (mostly by choice, although I wanted to see the main event), but DOLPH :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark:

Oh, and Sting...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Fuck the haters. Fucking everything. 

Sting is here. :mark:


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

*1987*: The Hulkamaniacs Vs. Team Rousssimoff










The original main event was surprisingly good considering most of the participants were hosses. The action was fast paced. Lots of tags and emphasis on teamwork. Orndorff was on fire for this and Patera gave a strong performance! The Richfield crowd was going wild until Hogan's numbers started to dwindle before Bigelow gave a valiant effort against insurmountable odds.


*1993*:









Nothing physically spectacular, but this was a fun match to watch. Luger's victory was a great way to make it up to him for failing to win the WWF Championship at SummerSlam 1993. I hated Ludvig Borga (if Lesnar and Rusev were put together) at the time so it was nice to see him finally get his ass kicked! Had this match taken place in Washington DC instead of Boston, the crowd would've more emotionally invested in it.

*1995*: Hart Vs. Diesel










Big Daddy Cool and The Hitman fought each other at King Of The Ring 1994 and Royal Rumble 1995. Both matches ended indecisively due to outside interference. This time, there were no count-outs. No disqualifications. It was a fight to the finish for the WWF Championship! And in the end, Hart outsmarted Nash to reclaim the title he got screwed out of one year prior.

- Vic


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Ric Flair vs Kerry Von Erich (Hawaii 10.12.1985)*

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/nwa-w...n-erich-hawaii-10-12-1985-a.html#post42210874

By request


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Brock said:


> Fuck the haters. Fucking everything.
> 
> Sting is here. :mark:


Knew you would love it. Shit was epic.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Glad the PPV was free last night. Would have been a waste of money. WHERE WAS THE RANDY ORTON RETURN!?!?!?!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Glad it was free? You subscribed to the Network then Cal?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No I downloaded it . The best kind of free .

Sting showing up did absolutely nothing for me. Shocking, I know.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, i guessed your reaction to Sting.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

I was expecting a Big Sexy return.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

****1/2 for the main event? Wow lol. I think when people start watching it back and without the live element and the not knowing, the hype will die down. I thought it was great and I was on the edge of my seat for the entirety of the second half. I'm also still amazed they decided to give the moment to Ziggler over Cena but I'm glad they did and I don't even like Ziggler. Great moment though and the last 10 minutes or so were kind of insane. Sting? I don't even know lol. I don't want Sting/Trips and I wasn't anywhere near as hype for Sting as a lot of people but I'll admit, the execution of the whole thing was so good that they got me. It just felt important as holy hell when the two of them were staring each other down. I'm still not fully sold on this but depending on how they book it, I could get behind it. Harper and Rowan got a little shine, Rusev still didn't get pinned, Rollins was the glue of team authority and Ziggler had a memorable performance while Cena was non existent. It was perfect booking. Right now I'd have it probably at **** excluding the Sting/HHH/interference shenanigans. I guess if you include them it could go up. I look forward to watching it again though. It's the first full match I've watched in a long time and I really enjoyed it. I'm actually pretty hype about Raw. God knows what the hell we're in for :vince2.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Probably would go down on a rewatch knowing what happened but the fact they managed to get me so invested in a match I had no interest in is something I'll give them huge credit for. The drama watching it live was great. I'm not a Sting mark and I'm only now starting to like Dolph but I marked big time for it, was so well done. Can't remember liking a traditional SVS match more.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Ryan193 said:


> Probably would go down on a rewatch knowing what happened but the fact they managed to get me so invested in a match I had no interest in is something I'll give them huge credit for. The drama watching it live was great. I'm not a Sting mark and I'm only now starting to like Dolph but I marked big time for it, was so well done. Can't remember liking a traditional SVS match more.


Yeah I'd agree with all of this. I'm no Sting mark and lol Ziggler but they executed it all so well that I had a blast during the whole thing. Above anything else the match was fun and that's all that matters. Snowflakes can GTFO.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

***3/4 for SS main event.

Still shocked Ziggler was soul survivor AND Ryback was the first one eliminated. And of course sting debut was great.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Survivor Series match was fucking awesome.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Just rewatched the main event from last night, and it holds up. Don't think ****1/2 is too high at all, or calling it a classic. The match was paced perfectly and only in one or two spots did it drag a little bit. It was for the most part great action from bell to bell. Honestly I'd go to ****3/4, with an off chance of ***** if not for the following factors:

1) The heel control segment of Ziggler mid-match did kind of drag and ruin the pace for a bit. It wasn't so long that it ruined that match or anything (obviously by my rating, you could probably tell that), and it wasn't bad work, it just took the match back into first gear. 

2) The other part of the match that dragged, which didn't even involve wrestlers in the match itself, was the Sting/HHH stare-down. The crowd was cool and all, but it felt like 5 minutes went by between the time Sting got in the ring and finally hit HHH. Sting's entrance itself was cool and is something (ironically, as I'll explain later) that does have a contribution to this match being a classic (it's a moment that people can and will come back to this match for), but the execution of the stare-down wasn't that great as it was too long. I get they want to make Sting/HHH as epic as possible, but as I explained in a previous post, it doesn't feel natural and is a force-fed way of debuting Sting before it needed to be done. I guess for me the only match I really see any point in Sting having is against Taker. Anyone else is a waste. 

3) Orton not being the one to make the save and cost The Authority the match. While I have credit to Sting in the above point for contributing to the match due to how big his debut in WWE is, Orton should've been the one to make the save during the match, and then maybe have Sting come out after to lay HHH out to send him packing. I can only assume they didn't have access to Orton and the rumors of him being in St. Louis were lies. Because if he was there and he was available, the did the ending the wrong way. Due exactly what they did, but replace Sting with Orton, we don't have to sit through a 3 minute staredown and entrance, Orton RKOs HHH and then RKOs Rollins followed by putting Ziggler on Rollins for the win. It plays into the whole storyline perfectly and also doesn't make Rollins look ridiculous by having him be knocked out cold for 5 minutes. That's actually another part of what keeps me from going higher on the match.

So there's those three things, and then minor things like the ref not starting the count before that Rusev table spot, or Rollins not getting DQ'd when he hit Cena with that curbstomp illegally, but all around the match was extremely fun, had a fantastic finishing stretch with Ziggler against Rollins/Harper/Kane, and had a winner everyone was behind, Authority angle or no Authority angle which made the reaction more natural. The match kept the pace up throughout most of it, and I'm actually very interested to see what happens on Raw and who ends up becoming the new GM... if we even get any. I also didn't mind Ryback's elimination, because he dominated throughout the whole time he was in the ring, and even took a curbstomp and still stood up right after. He didn't look weak in elimination, even if him being eliminated first was really odd. I don't care that Henry was eliminated quickly either because other than that, all eliminations were handled well and protected those who needed to be protected. 

****1/2 still for it and it's my #2 MOTY so far, easily.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

My match ratings

Fatal Four Way Tag: ***1/4
Divas Four on Four Elimination Tag Match: lol
Ambrose/Wyatt: ****
Bunny and Rose vs Jobbers: *1/2
Nikki/Aj: :trips9
Main Event: ****1/2

Looking at this now, I think I take back what I said about it being a great PPV. Yes, there are two great matches and one good one, but the rest just doesn't hold up. I said before that I give it a 7/10, but I think I'm going to change that to a 5/10. It had no business being a good show really, so I do have to give WWE credit for that. And I think a ****1/2 is appropriate for the main event match. Definitely a match of the year candidate and Sting's debut will most certainly help others feel this way. I personally would put it at number 3 for match of the year behind Shield vs Wyatts Elimination Chamber and Bryan/Wyatt from the Royal Rumble.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I'd give it like ***1/4. ***1/2 tops.

(in b4 I re-watch it and end up loving it like everybody else)


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Bray/Ambrose was fine considering it didn't have a finish. I probably would have liked it more with no commentary because at the start of the match I got it in my head that the commentators were ruining it and so I spent all match on a self-fulfilling prophecy rant about them ruining it. To be fair they did ruin it but I was making it stick out more. This match should have had more heat than it did but any heat it did have the commentators killed. It's a heated feud match and they spend all match treating it like a theatrical performance of characters. Every turn was "wow they're so crazy" and it's just stupid. They never once talk about Ambrose being in trouble and fearing for his health or putting over how dangerous and destructive Bray was when he was on top. It was just "lol crazy Dean/Bray at it again". Ambrose does Bray's taunt thingy and Cole sounds like the biggest geek in the world proclaiming he's doing what Bray does. He's like the kid who got the adult joke and wants his parents and everyone in the room to know he got something he shouldn't. It's so distracting. You have what should be a heated match and Lawler is laughing after every comment he makes which kills any heat the viewer might have watching the match. Lead to the finish was very odd because Cole went from joking around to suddenly deciding Ambrose was on the brink of death and fearing that he couldn't continue. The whole how can Ambrose take any more story was so strange because Bray really didn't dish much out besides the steps spot. I don't think he even hit his finisher. Bray cutting a promo when he did was so stupid. I guess it was meant to come off like Bray was out of ideas for how to beat Ambrose. How about hitting your finisher? It was obvious we weren't getting a finish here so the finish was what it was. I don't know what the mind games were supposed to be. Did Bray think Ambrose was sane and PG enough to not use the chair? It just felt like a cheap rehashed finish from the Cena feud where it would have worked. I'm pretty fucking sure Ambrose has his feet up at the dark side already. Really Bray should have been the one looking stronger after the first match to make people want to see Ambrose do what he did to him at the end. Instead they started with that and why the hell do I want to see them fight again? 

Main event was good in fairness. Not something I'd argue someone should see if they're unsure but for a 45 minute match it didn't drag and the final 15ish minutes were very good. Ziggler booking was nice but why would anyone get invested in it after how he's been booked all year. Maybe if there was more than a glimmer of hope that it would mean something than the reaction would be really something and I'd care. He's just going back where he was before into a midcard feud (granted it's with Harper so it should be good but he's still at the same level). Sting debut was good. I don't care one bit for him but it felt special and Sting in a WWE environment for the first time felt significant. Sting/HHH is whatever but best keep them together I guess. Ziggler and Rollins had a really strong final run. So stupid how they were dead for so long while Sting came out and then Dolph suddenly awoke when he won. Show turn was a good spot but the consequences suck. Cena/Show is probably just something for Cena to do for a month but the booking is just whatever. I do at least like how it fit Show's character. Rusev seemed to be hurt quite a bit from being in this program. Hopefully he gets the heat back. He really should have just beat Sheamus on the PPV and given Cesaro this spot. They eliminated him fine though. Henry elimination was a shame but it was a good spot I guess and Henry can look like a geek at this stage. Ryback going so quickly after all the build was odd. Harper and Rowan seemed to have something when they were in there together even if I have no idea what their issue is. Rowan looked great in this at least. No reliance on a GM character now would be nice but you bet a babyface one is being introduced and turning after Mania. *


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Seabs said:


> Maybe if there was more than a glimmer of hope that it would mean something than the reaction would be really something and I'd care. He's just going back where he was before into a midcard feud (granted it's with Harper so it should be good but he's still at the same level).


There's no way Ziggler's having a mid card feud after that. Absolutely no way. They wouldn't have shafted Cena like this and had Ziggler close out if there were no big plans for him afterwords.

Odds are he's going to feud with Rollins for the MITB briefcase.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Rollins was still out cold for the aftermath when Trips and Steph realized what happened. :lmao

THAT MUST'VE BEEN ONE HELL OF A ZIG ZAG


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Rollins sold it like a champ. One of the only guys on the roster that sells the move well (Cesaro is the only other guy I can think of). Not a fan of how Miz takes the move.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

TheGMofGods said:


> There's no way Ziggler's having a mid card feud after that. Absolutely no way. They wouldn't have shafted Cena like this and had Ziggler close out if there were no big plans for him afterwords.
> 
> Odds are he's going to feud with Rollins for the MITB briefcase.


*Orton says :hi

Even if he gets some momentum it won't last. You guys get let down so easily because you work yourselves up so easily. Cena needed a feud to fill the year out until Brock comes back so they had to have someone eliminate him to get him away from Rollins for Orton. It was right place right time rather than the start of anything.*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

When is Orton gonna be back? I actually figured since he didn't return last night, they'll keep him off until after TLC and then build to Orton/Rollins at RR.

Re-watched Ambrose/Wyatt and it holds up as well. I'm a sucker for these type of matches, of two guys going back and fourth and doing it at a pretty fast pace. I also still like the ending as it doesn't have either guy taking a pinfall loss, because neither can afford it right now. Dean beat the crap out of Wyatt tonight to build for TLC, but I'm sure Wyatt will get the better of him on most of the shows leading up to TLC. But their match last night was awesome and if they can top it at TLC, we'll have another MOTYC. This was awesome though and one of the best matches of the year in it's own right. ****1/4 for it still and speaking of MOTY, here's my current top 10:

(****3/4)
1) Wyatts vs. Shield Elimination Chamber 
(****1/2)
2) Team Cena vs. Team Authority Survivor Series
(****1/4)
3) Bray Wyatt vs. Dean Ambrose Survivor Series
(****)
4) Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena Summerslam
5) Wyatts vs. Shield Main Event 4/8
6) Daniel Bryan vs. HHH WM30
7) Cesaro vs. John Cena Raw 2/17
8) Dean Ambrose vs. Seth Rollins Raw 8/18
9) Bad News Barrett vs. Sheamus Raw 4/21
(***3/4)
10) Bray Wyatt vs. John Cena WM30

I've also been meaning to re-watch Bryan/Wyatt from RR, but I can't find it anywhere.  Any help?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, gotta say that Team Cena/Team Authority REALLY reignited my wrestling interest. Fantastic match there. Ziggler was booked like a God. Lots of questionable but still interesting other stuff like Ryback out first for his team and Show turning heel for the millionth time actually leading to Cena going home. Rusev's elimination was handled predictably but perfectly. And although I did see it coming, Sting's debut was still quite the moment. Of course, there were some plotholes here and there (the aforementioned Rollins selling the Zig Zags like Death... almost literally), but that still won't stop me from going ****1/2. 3rd MOTY behind Shield/Wyatts EC and Cesaro/Zayn.

Ambrose/Wyatt gets **** from me too. Just two guys throwing non-stop bombs at each other. Me likey. That being said, the ending was kinda stupid. Oh well. Liked the 4-way tag too (SANDOW :mark. Brie kissing AJ was awesome. BARRETT IS BACK (on the pre-show but HE'S BACK). Fuck everything else.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> I've also been meaning to re-watch Bryan/Wyatt from RR, but I can't find it anywhere.  Any help?


x1d9uop_wwe-royal-rumble-2014-26th-january-2014-hdtv-full-replay-part-1_sport


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Kind of difficult for Ziggler to take the next step with there only be 1 world title and that title not even being a factor in the WWE right now. It's also kind of difficult to see who he would feud with other than Rollins and if he does face Rollins the feud won't be able to last for too long because there is obviously going to be an Orton/Rollins feud when Orton comes back from his vacation. It's really just a matter of whether Orton comes back at or before TLC or he makes a surprise return in the Royal Rumble. Either way he's feuding with Rollins as soon as he comes back.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Today I asked Adam Cole what his favorite ROH title reign was. Real recognizes real, the answer was Punk.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

TaylorFitz said:


> Kind of difficult for Ziggler to take the next step with there only be 1 world title and that title not even being a factor in the WWE right now. It's also kind of difficult to see who he would feud with other than Rollins and if he does face Rollins the feud won't be able to last for too long because there is obviously going to be an Orton/Rollins feud when Orton comes back from his vacation. It's really just a matter of whether Orton comes back at or before TLC or he makes a surprise return in the Royal Rumble. Either way he's feuding with Rollins as soon as he comes back.


*Not being enhancement talent to Rollins and Rusev would be a start. Same for Cesaro to Ambrose and co.*


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Let down that he didn't say Micheal Elgin.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Honestly, if WWE didn't have such an infatuation with Roman Reigns main eventing Wrestlemania, I wish they'd pull the trigger on Dolph Ziggler in that spot. There's no one that deserves it more. Up and down, lost his World Title to a concussion, was at the bottom of the card in a nothing feud with Fandango not too long ago, and yet, he's always stayed over, always worked his ass off and it paid off last night.

I never thought I'd see any day where Ziggler was the sole survivor of a team with Cena and Ryback on it. I hope WWE capitalizes on it. Fuck Lesnar/Reigns or Cena/Reigns. I want Ziggler in there.


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

*WWE Survivor Series
(November 23, 2014)*

*
Kickoff:* Fandango vs Justin Gabriel DUD

*Kickoff:* Cesaro vs Jack Swagger *

*WWE Tag Team Championship*
Goldust & Stardust (c) vs The Usos vs The Miz & Damien Mizdow vs Los Matadores *3/4

*Traditional Survivor Series Elimination Match*
Paige, Cameron, Summer Rae & Layla vs Natalya, Naomi, Emma & Alicia Fox *

Dean Ambrose vs Bray Wyatt DUD

Adam Rose & The Bunny vs Heath Slater & Titus O'Neil 1/4*

*WWE Diva's Championship*
AJ Lee (c) vs Nikki Bella N/R

*Traditional Survivor Series Elimination Match*
Team Authority (Seth Rollins, Kane, Luke Harper, Rusev & Mark Henry) vs Team Cena (John Cena, Dolph Ziggler, Big Show, Ryback & Erick Rowan) **1/2

Rating; 2.25


*TERRIBLE SHOW FROM WWE. WORST MAJOR EVENT OF THE YEAR*


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yikes. A near perfect score for that Ishii/Goto spotfest, but a DUD for Wyatt/Ambrose. Tough crowd.


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Yikes. A near perfect score for that Ishii/Goto spotfest, but a DUD for Wyatt/Ambrose. Tough crowd.





Spoiler: a spoiler 



grab a mic in the middle of a match and then finish in disqualification. Who booked this garbage?

Spotfest??? LOL for the man who likes punk-lesnar


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

That's the reason you give it a dud? lol, but the bunny match was better? Ambrose/Wyatt wasn't the best, but it wasn't a dud. **3/4 from me.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ishii/Goto was a spotfest? But Meltzer said it was a MOTYC 

I didn't much care for how Wyatt/Ambrose went. Cole constantly saying "Ambrose has buried Bray Wyatt" didn't help neither. Had the roles been reverse, it would have been better imo. But what good is their re-match if Ambrose already did what his sole purpose in a feud is as a babyface?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

ZEROVampire said:


> *Traditional Survivor Series Elimination Match*
> Team Authority (Seth Rollins, Kane, Luke Harper, Rusev & Mark Henry) vs Team Cena (John Cena, Dolph Ziggler, Big Show, Ryback & Erick Rowan) **1/2
> 
> Rating; 2.25
> ...


You're one of the best trollers I've seen on this forum in quite some time


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I can't believe I'm saying this but I am actually rooting for the Reigns superpush just to avoid Ziggler in the main event. At least the former has potential to be an absolute disaster. The latter will just teleport me back to 2012 and that's a nightmare I never wanna relive.

The optimist in me says they only chose Ziggler because he was the only team member suitable to that underdog role rather than any long term plans for him.



#BadNewsSanta said:


> I've also been meaning to re-watch Bryan/Wyatt from RR, but I can't find it anywhere.  Any help?


I watched it on the WWE Network for.... free! :trips2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Srdjan99 said:


> You're one of the best trollers I've seen on this forum in quite some time


WWE Section creeping in here it seems.

-------------------------------------------






*Bryan/Wyatt.*


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

Srdjan99 said:


> You're one of the best trollers I've seen on this forum in quite some time


LOL Sting arrival automatically elevated this match to *****. Ok, nice.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

ZEROVampire said:


> LOL Sting arrival automatically elevated this match to *****. Ok, nice.


Not *****, but the match alone, without Sting's arrival was a very good **** bout


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

Srdjan99 said:


> Not *****, but the match alone, without Sting's arrival was a very good **** bout


ok i respect your opinion about the match, but for me **** represent a fantastic match. SSeries main event is really entertained for me, but only in the last 7 minutes. 

Big Show KOs Cena? WTF, Remember that? is not the first time. The man who mentioned the spotfest. Ziggler eliminated easily 3 guys after this guys destroyed him?

PD: Excuseme for my english


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> I watched it on the WWE Network for.... free! :trips2


I... I can't believe that slipped my mind. I actually pay for The Network, $9.99/month... been paying that 9.99 before it became a thing to say. Yet I never thought to look on WWE Network for it. I'm a total failure. :$

However, thanks to those who posted videos. I watched the match, and it went up to **** for me, and now definitely in my top 10. I liked it even more than Bryan/HHH. I for some reason had this idea, since the night it aired, that it was this extremely dull match for the first 3/4 of it, and then only got awesome during the last quarter. On this watch, only a portion of the middle with Wyatt's control segment got boring, but outside of that it was awesome. Execution, counters, the bits of selling from Wyatt as well as Bryan w/ the concussion selling, and the ending was awesome. It's a shame it was all just to feed Wyatt to Cena, but Wyatt winning was a surprise at the time as many had pegged Bryan to definitely beat Wyatt from what I remember, myself included. 

But yeah, great match. Better than I gave it credit for. I may even give Shield/Evolution from Extreme Rules another shot with how Bryan/Wyatt went... although unlike Bryan/Wyatt, I've already watched Shield/Evolution a few times and it's remained a ***1/2 match tops for me. But I'll give it another try tonight or tomorrow.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Divas tag :lmao
Ambrose/Wyatt ***
Team Cena/Team Authority ****

Them doing a callback of Cena/Wyatt made zero sense, have they forgotten who Ambrose is ? He isn't someone whose emotions build up till they snap, he's always on edge so him snapping is normal. Can't see how they can continue Ambrose/Wyatt with the ending here, and how obvious was the rematch set up ? ain't getting my money.

Think Ziggler's performance is the highest he'll go for the near future, Orton & Reigns will be returning and Bryan won't be pushed to the side when/if he returns. I was into the match 100% I even marked for Sting but thinking about the future it doesn't look to bright. Show heel run? Show/Cena? another GM? DO.NOT.WANT


----------



## darkclaudio (Feb 29, 2012)

Survivor Series was Awful!!!! Overrated Show.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Watched the 2 big matches from SVS...

Have to say, Cole/JBL/Lawler positively ruined anything that could have been good about Ambrose/Wyatt for me. Jesus Christ, if JBL says one more time "oh man this is entertaining, this is fun to watch!" when someone is getting beat down, I'm going to fucking lose it. JBL has absolutely no idea how to put the heels and baby faces over, Lawler laughing about everything was beyond infuriating, and Cole is just an absolute disgrace at this point. I can't even take these 3 clowns anymore, they are one of the main reasons I just don't watch much current wrestling anymore.

I'd give Wyatt/Ambrose something like ***1/4. Shame nonsensical booking (Bray picking up a mic in the middle of the match :lol) and other bullshit is keeping these two from having the feud they are capable of.

The main event tag was lots of fun, and it was definitely great to see Ziggler get his moment in the sun. Too bad it's going to be absolutely meaningless in 2 months, but whatever. Henry going down that quick was such a bummer. Rollins selling the Zig Zag for an hour was stupid too, Sting should have given him a Death Drop too before Ziggler got the pin. Otherwise, this was definitely one of the better elimination tags we've had in a while.

I'll go ***3/4 for the main event. Really, really good match. MOTYC though? Absolutely not.

For me, the best matches of 2014 have been (WWE/NXT only)

1. Cesaro vs Zayn NXT Arrival ****3/4
2. Wyatt Family vs The Shield EC ****3/4
3. Triple H vs Daniel Bryan WM 30 ****1/4
4. Daniel Bryan vs Bray Wyatt RR ****1/4
5. Cesaro vs Cena Raw ****1/4
6. Ambrose vs Rollins FCA Raw ****
7. Shield vs Evolution ER ****
8. Ambrose vs Rollins Lumberjack SS ****
9. Cena vs Lesnar SS ****
10. Bryan vs Batista vs Orton WM 30 ****

This year was a pretty decent sized drop off from last year, but that's to be expected with no Punk and Bryan being gone since May. Booking wise this is one of the worst years ever, match quality wise it was average.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

In the context of WWE history, the match quality this year is anything but average. Must I repost all those match lists that I do for every year?


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Been a fantastic year in terms of match quality IMO. It's just as well because the storylines and characters have been horrendous.


1 The Shield V The Wyatt's Elimination Chamber ****3/4
2 Team Cena V Team Authority Survivor Series ****1/2
3 John Cena V Bray Wyatt Wrestlemania ****1/2
4 John Cena V Cesaro Raw Feb ****1/2
5 John Cena V Bray Wyatt Payback ****1/2
6 Daniel Bryan V Triple H Wrestlemania ****1/2
7 Sami Zayn V Cesaro Takeover 1 ****1/2
8 Daniel Bryan V Batista V Randy Orton Wrestlemania ****1/4
9 Dean Ambrose V Seth Rollins Raw ****1/4
10 Dean Ambrose V Seth Rollins Summerslam ****1/4
11 Dean Ambrose V Bray Wyatt Survivor Series ****1/4
12 The Shield V Evolution Extreme Rules ****1/4
13 Dean Ambrose V Seth Rollins Hell In A Cell ****1/4
14 Daniel Bryan V Bray Wyatt Royal Rumble ****1/4
15 Adrian Neville V Sami Zayn V Tyler Breeze V Tyson Kidd Takeover 2 ****1/4


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> In the context of WWE history, the match quality this year is anything but average. Must I repost all those match lists that I do for every year?


I'm talking modern era, post AE, like 2001-2014. This was an average year quality wise during that time span.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Ryan193 said:


> Been a fantastic year in terms of match quality IMO. It's just as well because the storylines and characters have been horrendous.
> 
> 
> 1 The Shield V The Wyatt's ****3/4
> ...



Well, when you rate matches that high (it's your right, it's all opinion of course) I could see why you'd think this year was fantastic. I just find myself not enjoying the majority of what WWE puts out these days, as far as how guys are working in the ring. It's just not my style. There are no good, heated brawls anymore, not technical matches down on the mat, no plucky under dog vs the dominant heel (excepting Bryan/Trips), no gritty, really hard hitting bouts. That's the stuff I like, a lot of times it seems like everyone is doing the exact same thing and wrestling the exact same style, even though I KNOW they are capable of better. It's such a hinderance.

Like, Wyatt vs Ambrose would have been the perfect time to do a vicious, heated brawl. The characters called for it. But what do we get? Soft core porn. Bullshit. It was a good match but those two should be having a GREAT match. Fuck it, don't even go into the match with a real plan, just let those two fight all around the ring and beat the shit out of each other. Use their imagination.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Well, when you rate matches that high (it's your right, it's all opinion of course) I could see why you'd think this year was fantastic. I just find myself not enjoying the majority of what WWE puts out these days, as far as how guys are working in the ring. It's just not my style. There are no good, heated brawls anymore, not technical matches down on the mat, no plucky under dog vs the dominant heel (excepting Bryan/Trips), no gritty, really hard hitting bouts. That's the stuff I like, a lot of times it seems like everyone is doing the exact same thing and wrestling the exact same style, even though I KNOW they are capable of better. It's such a hinderance.
> 
> Like, Wyatt vs Ambrose would have been the perfect time to do a vicious, heated brawl. The characters called for it. But what do we get? Soft core porn. Bullshit. It was a good match but those two should be having a GREAT match. Fuck it, don't even go into the match with a real plan, just let those two fight all around the ring and beat the shit out of each other. Use their imagination.


I don't have a particular style I enjoy more than others tbh.

I loved Ambrose-Wyatt but I do think they are capable of even better, since they're facing again at TLC I don't think they wanted to completely blow their load on their first match, simillar to Jericho-Wyatt and Swagger-Rusev at Battleground. I think they can do something really special in a TLC match.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I find the in-ring work pre-Summerslam was fantastic. Just like 2013, though, it dropped off post-SS.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The only years that I know for sure I would put over 2014 in terms of in-ring quality are 2001 and 2013. MAYBE 2004. I guess I'll give it the benefit of the doubt and count it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Ryan193 said:


> I don't have a particular style I enjoy more than others tbh.
> 
> I loved Ambrose-Wyatt but I do think they are capable of even better, since they're facing again at TLC I don't think they wanted to completely blow their load on their first match, simillar to Jericho-Wyatt and Swagger-Rusev at Battleground. I think they can do something really special in a TLC match.



Right, that's what I was saying, just do a crazy 10 minute brawl that ends in a double count out or something. Don't overbook everything to shit. That's what I feel like whenever I'm watching one of these young guys get put in a big spot, like they are literally following a script to a T. Rollins/Ambrose HiaC was one of the best examples of that, there is just not spontaneity, I never feel like they are out there actually WRESTLING. It's like they are performing from a strictly enforced script. All the great organic things about Dean, Rollins, and Bray get stripped away and in their place is bullshit from a writer or Vince or an agent telling THEM how their character should be wrestling. It all reeks of over sterilized, over produced, soul-less show biz. It's not pro wrestling, not how I think pro wrestling should be anyways.

Maybe I'm just having a bad day and hating for no reason. But I don't think so, I've been watching so much stuff from the 80s, 90s, and early 00s and so it's sticks out like a sore thumb when I see stuff that appears rehearsed and not organic. Even though Savage/Steamboat WM 3 was a match followed strictly from a script and it was rehearsed several times, even that match feels more natural and organic and less scripted than what we see today when you watch it. Probably because Savage had 100% say in what the match was gonna be, he wasn't being told how to wrestle by someone like Jamie Noble or Joey Mercury, guys who were decent hands but never in their life had a classic 1 on 1 match. Who are they to tell you how to work?

Funnyfaces- you're going too far with this PG era apologist thing. You can't honestly tell me that you don't see a massive difference, in a bad way, from how guys wrestle today as opposed to in 2003? Everyone nowadays wrestles the goddamn same cause they are all trained by the same guys or if they aren't they have all the differences in their style hammered out of them before they see the light of day. The in ring product today can't hold a candle to years 2000-2006. I'll take all 6 of those years over 2014. There are no Austin's, Takers, Eddies, Benoits, Reys, Angles, Jericho, Trips, Flair, HBK, full time Lesnar, Rock, etc. I love Dean, Seth, Rusev, Cesaro, etc. But these guys aren't allowed to be what the previous era was. Maybe I'm alone in this, but the commentary is EXTREMELY important to me, listening to Cole/JBL/Lawler just positively ruins all the good stuff that might be happening these days.

Oh, and 2013 is so far and away better than 2014. This year was an abortion for the most part.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I completely understand what you mean Rabid Wolverine, I blame the new ring material, it makes this noise that's really flashy and the ring itself is so shiny and bright. As for the wrestling style, the execution is just too perfect, it makes the matches feel heavily choreographed, IDK maybe it's the alcohol talking but some matches benefit from sloppiness, brings a deal of realism. 

Dean Malenko would fit right into current WWE.

BOOM.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I don't understand what someone was expecting from Wyatt and Ambrose? They went about as far as they could go given the fact it was a normal one on one match. In the end though, they couldn't keep themselves contained to the rules and Ambrose lays in a beating on Wyatt after the match (which I do understand the criticism for, even if I don't think it's a big deal). The match itself was pretty hard hitting for a normal match and gave the feeling that these two guys are even. That's the best way they could go about it without giving everything away in one match. They had an awesome match and they still have a lot of room to work with for their TLC match without it feeling like a complete rehash of SVS.

I mean, it's all opinions and stuff, but if people were expecting Ambrose and Wyatt to kill each other outright without the use of weapons and stuff, they were setting themselves up for disappointment. If they fail to deliver that kind of match at TLC with the TLC stip they have, they'll have a point. But I got exactly what I expected out of SVS and then some.

Edit: @Rabid Wolverine... I get what you're saying about the whole feeling of most matches nowadays feeling rehearsed, but I didn't get that from Wyatt/Ambrose. They didn't let the characters go full force due to the match type as I explained above, but the match felt organic throughout. Of course you didn't feel that way, nothing I can say to change your mind except watch the match again and see how you feel.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Right, that's what I was saying, just do a crazy 10 minute brawl that ends in a double count out or something. Don't overbook everything to shit. That's what I feel like whenever I'm watching one of these young guys get put in a big spot, like they are literally following a script to a T. Rollins/Ambrose HiaC was one of the best examples of that, there is just not spontaneity, I never feel like they are out there actually WRESTLING. It's like they are performing from a strictly enforced script. All the great organic things about Dean, Rollins, and Bray get stripped away and in their place is bullshit from a writer or Vince or an agent telling THEM how their character should be wrestling. It all reeks of over sterilized, over produced, soul-less show biz. It's not pro wrestling, not how I think pro wrestling should be anyways.
> 
> Maybe I'm just having a bad day and hating for no reason. But I don't think so, I've been watching so much stuff from the 80s, 90s, and early 00s and so it's sticks out like a sore thumb when I see stuff that appears rehearsed and not organic. Even though Savage/Steamboat WM 3 was a match followed strictly from a script and it was rehearsed several times, even that match feels more natural and organic and less scripted than what we see today when you watch it. Probably because Savage had 100% say in what the match was gonna be, he wasn't being told how to wrestle by someone like Jamie Noble or Joey Mercury, guys who were decent hands but never in their life had a classic 1 on 1 match. Who are they to tell you how to work?


Before the match I was hoping for something like that but I liked the finish, I thought Bray was going to pick up the win(via pinfall) and Ambrose needed to be kept strong. I've never really thought about that when it comes to the matches although I do think that about promos where everyone other than maybe Cena, Ambrose and one or two others are trying to memorize a script and it just comes across as forced and awkward.

I remember reading an interview with Ambrose where he put over the work Mercury does BIG time. I'm sure he said at least a dozen hall of famers from this generation will mention him in their speech.

EDIT. Why are they promoting Wyatt on The Steve Austin Show? Talk about killing the mystique of a character.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Funnyfaces- you're going too far with this PG era apologist thing. You can't honestly tell me that you don't see a massive difference, in a bad way, from how guys wrestle today as opposed to in 2003? Everyone nowadays wrestles the goddamn same cause they are all trained by the same guys or if they aren't they have all the differences in their style hammered out of them before they see the light of day. The in ring product today can't hold a candle to years 2000-2006. I'll take all 6 of those years over 2014. There are no Austin's, Takers, Eddies, Benoits, Reys, Angles, Jericho, Trips, Flair, HBK, full time Lesnar, Rock, etc. I love Dean, Seth, Rusev, Cesaro, etc. But these guys aren't allowed to be what the previous era was. Maybe I'm alone in this, but the commentary is EXTREMELY important to me, listening to Cole/JBL/Lawler just positively ruins all the good stuff that might be happening these days.
> 
> Oh, and 2013 is so far and away better than 2014. This year was an abortion for the most part.


You know what's funny? People made that same exact complaint in 2003 about how everybody wrestled the same style. EXACT same complaint. And going through those years, there was a lot of truth to it. The OVW guys in particular that came up during that time were all trained the exact same way by the exact same guys. The only one that differentiated himself was Brock, and he only appeared for two years. As great as Smackdown was during that time period, I dare you to watch daily matches from RAW (outside of 2004) during that time and compare it to now. You will complain even more about the shit brawling, millions of restholds, and non-finishes from then. Watching all those television shows made me realize just how much we take for granted the fact that you can get multiple ***+ matches every week now and it would still be considered a disappointing week for WWE. There are no Austins, Takers, Eddies, etc. now, but I am just as impressed by the Zayns, Bryans, Punks, Rollins, and Cesaros for instance as I am of those talents when it comes to in-ring ability. And you can make an argument for all of these guys being restricted in what they can do in the ring, but even with those restrictions, these guys still put on phenomenal matches and the length of time in the ring to put on good matches. Give me a Daniel Bryan vs. Dean Ambrose match from 2013 that wouldn't even make my top 50 from last year over the #40 match from any of those other years besides 2001.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Retract what I said. This company just never learns.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

So we're back to this?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

So its the tedious 'General manager a week' bullshit then? I wasn't expecting Heyman or Sting to be revealed or anything, but come the fuck on.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Raw GM will be Trips.

"It was me, Cena. It was me all along, Cena!" :hunter


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I do have a couple of match requests I know, but my CPU needs a wipe and reinstall so ill try when I get it back and spend god knows how long installing the programs etc I need.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Retract what I said. This company just never learns.


You said earlier this year that even you can't defend this year yet just yesterday you were trying to put it over as possibly a top 3 year for in-ring work in WWE history. Which means nothing negative you'll say matters because you'll be back to being a PG apologist more than ever after a while.

I wish I didn't have to shit on 2014 because I really enjoyed the first 4 months, but I have no choice because this year has been absolutely awful and almost eclipsing 2012. It's been decent in terms of match quality but even that has dropped down considerably since the summer. Doesn't even hold a candle to 2003-2006 in that category.

So they actually brought back the anonymous GM nonsense? Good thing I didn't watch yesterday. I think this company does me a favor every time they disappoint me with a PPV because unlike the rest here, I wont get excited tuning in the night after only to be let down again.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

So Hornswoggle or the fucking computer again? :lmao Why is it they always have so many options, and they go with a shit one.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Raw sucked. Still no Randy Orton return.















































8*D


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Randy Orton would certainly make it better but he alone can't save this shitty product even if he's on COKE MODE 24/7... unless the show revolves around him like the night after TLC last year.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Oh lord. Anything but Randy Orton. Thank goodness that the stupid protestors in Ferguson provided us our wrestling fix for the week.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

As my CPU is out of commission, decided to start watching WWF 2001.

Onto the second Raw of the year, Edge and Christian bought out the Dudley Boyz' 'parents', then the damn Dudleys came out, and Bubba put the poor lady through a table. :lol

Oh, also an advert for the introduction of the first Xbox. :mark: Good days.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

The anonymous GM and guest hosts/stars were two of the worst periods in WWE and now they're doing them simultaneously?

Does Vince just sit up at night and think of ways to fuck with his audience?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

After watching a really good Austin/Angle match on the 8th Jan '01 Raw, with HHH interfering just as Austin had Kurt pinned, 

The SD a few days after, in a promo Angle said he would have kicked out, it was nothing, he wasn't going to lose etc,

They should have said this in regards to Lesnar after NOC. Supposed it doesn't matter now as I'm sure everyone has forgotten lol, but i still hope Heyman brings it up in the RR build up.

These XFL adverts lol.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Right, that's what I was saying, just do a crazy 10 minute brawl that ends in a double count out or something. Don't overbook everything to shit. That's what I feel like whenever I'm watching one of these young guys get put in a big spot, like they are literally following a script to a T. Rollins/Ambrose HiaC was one of the best examples of that, there is just not spontaneity, I never feel like they are out there actually WRESTLING. It's like they are performing from a strictly enforced script. All the great organic things about Dean, Rollins, and Bray get stripped away and in their place is bullshit from a writer or Vince or an agent telling THEM how their character should be wrestling. It all reeks of over sterilized, over produced, soul-less show biz. It's not pro wrestling, not how I think pro wrestling should be anyways.
> 
> Maybe I'm just having a bad day and hating for no reason. But I don't think so, I've been watching so much stuff from the 80s, 90s, and early 00s and so it's sticks out like a sore thumb when I see stuff that appears rehearsed and not organic. Even though Savage/Steamboat WM 3 was a match followed strictly from a script and it was rehearsed several times, even that match feels more natural and organic and less scripted than what we see today when you watch it. Probably because Savage had 100% say in what the match was gonna be, he wasn't being told how to wrestle by someone like Jamie Noble or Joey Mercury, guys who were decent hands but never in their life had a classic 1 on 1 match. Who are they to tell you how to work?
> 
> ...



I respectfully disagree with several of your points here, but something you do bring up that I agree with and would like to address is you say "there are no Austin's, Takers, Eddies, Benoits, Reys, Angles, Trips, Flair, HBK or full time Lesnars" (I took out Rock because honestly purely from an in ring standpoint, I will take the attributes/work of a number of guys on the current roster the Rock's and I feel Jericho is debatable to Bryan and Cesaro, so to get a picture of guys who'd be best on the roster I took him out). Let's do some profiles here: When I say working tree, I mean like coached under like a coaching tree in NFL.


*Austin*
Special abilities: nah
Working "tree"- Steamboat, Rick Rude, Brian Pillman, Steven Regal, Arn Anderson, Ric Flair, when getting to WWE was taken under the wing of Bret Hart where he became a megastar and really upped his ring game. 
Wrestling minds learned from: Rode with Scott Hall, Regal,Dutch,Paul E. and Rick Rude. Jim Ross close friend. Jim Cornette was a good friend.
Years in decent sized promotions before going to the E: 5 (10 full years before his zenith)

*Eddie*
Special abilities: One of the greatest at drawing any emotion out of an audience through little things or facial expresion, all crucial to Eddie's storytelling. You just can't teach or pick all that up without just having it. Some of it, sure, but not all. Tons of physical charisma that again you just can't teach. Most important, WRESTLING WAS LITERALLY IN HIS BLOOD. World experience. 
Working tree- Eddie's always been so damn good even his debut in the States in 90 was solid vs Terry Funk. I'm not sure if you can credit Guerrero's development to a whole lot of people he worked under and I haven't heard any EG guerrero interviews after his drug years period to confirm or deny that. Guy never looked like he was being led by the hand and even in Japan hung hold for hold with Benoit and Liger. 
Minds: The Guerrero family, Heyman, Dusty at bare minimum
Years in decent sized promotions before the E: 11 at least. (If one argues 2005 as his zenith 16 before his zenith) 

*Taker:* Pretty evident

*Lesnar:*
Special attributes: A once in a generation physical package and maybe the greatest physical specimen in Business history without adjusting for era. One of the quickest to ever pick up the business' intangibles like selling. 
Minds: Best friends with Paul Heyman, worked under Cornette initially
Working "tree"- again, another very rare natural but right out of the gate Taker, Angle, Jericho, RVD, Hardy Boys, Hogan, Rock.

*Prime Mysterio:*
Special abilities: Amazing fluidity through highspots that at the time hadn't been seen. Great grace. If I'm not mistaken, Rey is another guy where wrestling is in his blood. World Experience. 
Working "tree"- Ultimo Dragon, Liger, Eddie Guerrero, Benoit, in WWE Undertaker and Angle I know were key guys instrumental to his development in the E style. probably a hell of alot more that I'm unaware of since I don't follow Luchadore wrestling.
Years in decent federations before the E: Don't know but I would assume a long time considering he was working big Mexican feds and making NJPW trips pre ECW.
Minds: Again wouldn't know in entirety. 

*Benoit:*
Special abilities: I don't think so really a definition of a hard worker to be one of the greatest, some say THE greatest. World experience.
Working "tree"- Idolized Dynamite Kid, Owen and Bret Hart, Jushin Liger (albeit Benoit worked to Liger not under him). Trained in the Dojo and if I'm not mistaken spent time in the Hart dungeon. 
Wrestling minds: Stu Hart, Heyman, Ross at least.
Years before the E: ten or so
Years before zenith: Depends on if you argue 02, 03 or 04 as Benoit's top year in the E. 

*Flair:*
Working tree- Dusty, Ray Stevens, Bockwinkel, Dory Funk, Terry Funk, Dusty Rhodes (those two Flair would obviously later work as equals to), Jack Briscoe, Harley Race, Johnny Valentine, Wahoo Mcdaniel, Murdoch and Ron Garvin. 
Minds: Too many to note I'sm sure. 

*Angle*
Special abilities: As stated by Austin numerous times, the quickest to ever absorb the business he has ever seen. One of the best flowing and natural wrestlers there has been. Amateur background helped carve style. Natural ability off the charts
Wrestling "tree"- this is tough since Angle was so great since day 1 he never really worked under anyone, but for the hell of it those first two years: Austin, Benoit, Taker,Jericho
Minds: Jim Ross. Patterson worked closely with him as a match agent.


Many of the guys you listed had many years in the business working prominent promotions before getting to the limelight and then had some years before their in ring zenith. The guys who didn't hone their craft immensely had once in a generation gifted attributes that can't be replicated. Almost all if not all had the massive benefit of Pat Patterson laying out matches, who many from Heyman to Austin to Jericho to even Russo hail as the best match layer of all time and one of the greatest minds of all time. Patterson apparently was a God at laying out matches, and he is not there to construct the matches for the young guys. Many of the minds these guys learned from just aren't in the business today or at least not involved with WWE and those that are aren't fixtures. Furthermore, the learning tree always rests in the veterans. Notice that damn near nobody I listed under anyone's tree is in WWE today nor got in the ring with anyone in WWE today, and same for the general names I listed barring the veterans, of which there are not many. Heck, if we list those vets: Mark Henry, Show, Kane, Cena,Goldust and Orton. Kane is subpar in the ring; Cena can be excellent but is by no means a ring general and on average isn't goodand besides I get the impression that Cena is very protective of his spot and keeps his knowledge close to the vest; Orton is a natural worker and Henry shuffles in and out with injuries. That leaves Show and Goldust as solid ring hands with the experience with premium workers. As many say, you won't progress without facing those better than you, which reigns so true. One can be trained by anyone, but it's the on the job where you learn in the profession from what I gather. I think that's the main problem: no vets

The shooting into the WWE at a green state is another. Notice the guys listed had years in legitimate sized organizations to hone their craft before the E. So many are straight out of the WWE farm system, worked in small American promotions lacking much size before the E outside of ROH, and just generally don't have much experience. With that in mind, unless you got some serious natural talent, it just won't click. 

The previous generation had very distinct advantages over the current generation, and while HHH touts NXT as "giving all the tools to succeed with no excuses", the facilities may hold as the best ever, but what I've outlined is what counts, and really cannot be changed. Another thing that cannot be changed is how much damn time has elapsed. Most of the marketsfor new ring product and styles have been cornered and so many are infatuated with comparisons. Hell, even in the last 15 years, Lesnar, Kane and Goldberg pretty much killed the power market with their feats. The only other style that continues to evolve due to time being passed is high flying, and even then it is getting more hard to innovate that thanks to Liger and Mysterio building on Sakaruba's foundation. Power to guys like Neville and Richochet for tyriyng though.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WrestlingOracle said:


> I respectfully disagree with several of your points here, but something you do bring up that I agree with and would like to address is you say "there are no Austin's, Takers, Eddies, Benoits, Reys, Angles, Trips, Flair, HBK or full time Lesnars" (I took out Rock because honestly purely from an in ring standpoint, I will take the attributes/work of a number of guys on the current roster the Rock's and I feel Jericho is debatable to Bryan and Cesaro, so to get a picture of guys who'd be best on the roster I took him out). Let's do some profiles here: When I say working tree, I mean like coached under like a coaching tree in NFL.
> 
> 
> *Austin*
> ...



Tremendous post, if I could rep you 10 times for it, I would.

All the guys you mentioned DID have that huge advantage of learning under the vets. NXT simply can't replicate Steve Austin sitting in the car for hours and hours with Dutch Mantel and Paul Heyman learning the finer points of his craft. Steve Austin 4 years in, in 1994, was already one of the better wrestlers in the world and it was because he had veterans helping him, AND, this is crucial, he was allowed to fail. He was allowed to go out without any direction and stink the joint up or cut a drizzling shits promo. That's the ONLY way you get better, by failing. I feel like that's possibly the biggest obstacle these new crop of amazing talent the WWE has (Cesaro, Rollins, Reigns, Ambrose, Zayn, Neville, etc) is that everything they do is so choreographed and structured that they aren't allowed to go out and just feel comfortable being themselves. They can't just go out and have a 10 minute match without talking over anything with their opponent or having restrictions put on their match.

The other point you brought up is huge, as well. The lack of Pat Patterson is surely a major detriment to the product. Pat is truly one of the finest minds the business has ever had, his experience was invaluable in creating so many of the iconic matches during the eras we love so much. Without Pat, there is a huge gaping whole in the development process of the matches.

So just to sum up, the abysmal commentary, the over scripted nature of everything, and the restrictions put on wrestlers keeping them from just being themselves is what turns me off most to the current era. It's not the wrestlers themselves. Sami Zayn is one of the best wrestlers PERIOD. Any era, that guy will be a star. I just worry so much when he finally gets called up that WWE will take away all the organic, natural things about Sami that make him so like able and special.

Steve Austin said on his podcast recently that "the greatest match of all time", his WM 13 encounter with Bret Hart, was literally discussed for a total of 10 minutes before they went out. They laid out the ring bell spot, the finish, the spot where they get color, and the overall theme where shit jumps off quick at the start of the match. That's it. Otherwise he and Bret just went out and fucking WRESTLED, with Steve filling in the gaps with spots called on the fly. The last match I saw that felt like that was Brock vs Punk, and before that it was Punk vs Cena. Those natural, real pro wrestling style matches just seem to not occur with the frequency they used to. Well I take that back, Zayn vs Cesaro Arrival, THAT was a fucking pro wrestling match. No prefabricated horse shit as Austin would say.

I just want these new guys to be able to spread their wings and do what they want. I'm tired of all these matches consisting of the same moves, the same style, and similar spots, with commentary that literally will make your nose bleed you get so frustrated listening to it.

Okay, rant over. Maybe I should just move this to the rants section. Mods, sorry I went a bit off topic there.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

This is the WWE. No matter what, Vince McMahon demands similar spots, the same style, and the same moves.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> This is the WWE. No matter what, Vince McMahon demands similar spots, the same style, and the same moves.



True. But it hasn't always been like this. It's only now when Vince thinks he's got a bunch of rookies on his hands instead of seasoned vets that he's obviously put all these restrictions on guys. And of course there is the restriction on the level of violence allowed, if you really think about it, A LOT of our favorite matches or ones we remember most fondly were the ones were the violence was raised a level. Austin/Hart, HBK/Taker HiaC, Eddie/JBL, Foley/Hunter, Brock/Cena ER, Brock/Taker HiaC, Angle/Austin, Austin/Dude Love, Funk/Flair, etc. Of course their is a laundry list of standard, PG quality bouts that we love like Flair/Steamboat, Eddie/Rey, Cena/Punk, etc, but the difference is we NEVER get that next level of violence that's so crucial to pro wrestling. What happens now when a guy gets REALLY mad at another guy for say, costing him the WWE title or curb stomping him into cinder blocks? A chair shot to the gut, one to the back, positively no color or any discernible marks showing damage has been inflicted, and a flurry of punches that miss by a mile. That's it. Nothing ever feels really heated anymore because the writing sucks, the commentary guys sound like a bunch of frat boy jerk offs who NEVER sell the moment or make anything seem real/special, and guys who have hand cuffs on because they can't risk offending women, children, or more importantly, the board of directors. It's all such nonsense. It's really now just dawning on me how truly shitty WWE in 2014 is, it's no longer even worthy of being called a pro wrestling company. They have a stable full of pure bred PRO WRESTLERS who aren't even allowed to call themselves wrestlers or what they do wrestling. Kevin Dunn needs to get reassigned to WWE Siberia and someone who knows and loves pro wrestling needs to take over as the executive producer. I truly believe Hunter could fix a lot of this crap but Vince won't step down and let him run the show. Hunter is a pro wrestler at heart, it HAS to kill him to see what Vince and Kevin Dunn are doing to the business he loves.

The only bright spot is all this stuff is fixable, they have boat loads of guys who know what they are doing and there are a lot more guys currently working in Japan or on the Indys who could be potential WWE guys in the future. It's just a matter of holding on until then. The worst part is I have to dump money into this company that's ruining wrestling to the tune of $9.99 a month to get the network to watch wrestling back when it was still pro fucking wrestling. That was genius on WWE's part. Tagline: "Hey, think the current stuff you see on TV absolutely sucks? Would you never in a million years drop $60 on a PPV to watch more of this shitty product? Well we have just the thing for you! For only $9.99 you get access to HD quality events from the bygone era when wrestling was still good, all the PPV's, tons of sweet documentaries about those awesome eras and the stars from them, as well as our current shitty stuff so maybe when you're bored you can check it out for a minute and possibly get hooked again. ALL FOR JUST $9.99!"


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> All the guys you mentioned DID have that huge advantage of learning under the vets. NXT simply can't replicate Steve Austin sitting in the car for hours and hours with Dutch Mantel and Paul Heyman learning the finer points of his craft.


They kinda could given than Paul and Dutch are both WWE employees. 

I've said this for a while but WWE are too scared to give newer wrestlers any chances, and seemingly view them as failures before they even push them. You can read my post here from a couple months ago; 

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/40567905-post3236.html

But less than two months later and after watching a little more WWE TV (usu in the background) and reading every match result ending in a run in, I feel worse about the WWE than I did then. And, yeah, holy crap do the commentators sound like they're all competing for Captain Shithead every episode. NXT has bad commentary (Is Renee Young a....heel? She's terrible at it) but it isn't Michael Cole level. I still think nobody will hit Gabe levels of bad, but Cole has gotten closer than I thought he could. It's almost impressive.

Bit of a side-note; WWE's presentation is terrible. Like, genuinely terrible. Not 'salvageable if they remove a couple things', not 'OK but with flaws'. I mean truly, truly, garbage. That hideous gigantic monitor entrance thing under he titantron is absolutely not necessary at all let alone on every TV show other than NXT. WWE have this disgustingly off-putting 'glitz and glamour' vibe that subtracts authenticity from their already hilariously unauthentic shows. The Miz has a movie star heel gimmick and he doesn't look out of place at all with the rest of the show. Maybe 'out of place' isn't the right term since he prob shouldn't look out of place, but you get it. I remember the last 'throwback' Raw and I thought the set up was gorgeous. It was simple, but it looked fantastic. WWE will never grasp 'less is more'.



> The only bright spot is all this stuff is fixable, they have boat loads of guys who know what they are doing and there are a lot more guys currently working in Japan or on the Indys who could be potential WWE guys in the future. It's just a matter of holding on until then.


Probably doesn't matter, tbh. They won't listen to any of them. Didn't the Rock get fed up with 'Rocky Maivia' and start speaking his mind back stage? Something like that? You read a report of that kind of thing in 2014 and everyone's first thought is 'he'll be gone by the 25th'. Cesaro made a comment in an interview about Cena/Orton for the 500th time being uninteresting and WWE sure as fuck won't change anything because of it. 

I'm not even sure being employed by WWE allows a wrestler to help the product all that much. Look at Sami Callihan. He was my favourite wrestler in the world a couple years ago, and I thought he was PERFECT for WWE TV. He wrestled a semi-WWE TV formula, he had a WWF/E look, he had signature spots (like everyone in WWE needs), he was VERY unlike any else on the indies; he really stood out. And where the hell is he? He's been a McMahon employee for who knows how long and I'm not sure he's been on TV. And what if all of these others get employed? Cena and Orton will be your part time stars taking the spotlight instead. :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Up until the Royal Rumble in my 2001 WWF viewing atm, just watching the SD before the PPV. 

I'm even enjoying the Steph/Trish stuff.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Ladies and gentlemen, the backstage segment of the year






STOOPID


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Off topic I know, but I just watched this match for the first time after hearing JR talk about it on his podcast and I have to say, this is one of the greatest matches I've ever seen, hands down. I've never seen an AJPW heavyweight bout worked at such a grueling pace and the high spots simply need to be seen to be believed. Unbelievable, I never thought the Hansen/Kobashi 7/29/93 match would ever be topped as my favorite gaijin match, but I think this just might have done it. Please, take the 30 minutes out of your day to witness true greatness.

"Dr. Death" Steve Williams vs Kenta Kobashi AJPW 8/31/93






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ylyk_p4i88I


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

For the first time since the night it aired, I watched the World Title elimination chamber match from 2011. Gotta say it's worth the hype from this thread and definitely belongs in the top 10, if not top 5 all-time chamber matches. Great start, middle portion, performance by Drew and finishing stretch with Edge and Rey. ★★★★

Will get to the #1 contender match from the same show tomorrow. Haven't seen that one since it aired either but always had a sour taste in my mouth with Orton getting eliminated first.

Also plan on rewatching the Payback main event from this year. Was total crap live and I don't expect any difference because the shit booking is still fresh in my mind.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

What main evented payback? Was it Shield/Evolution or Cena/Wyatt? Either way, don't waste time both of those matches suck, I know you aren't big on matches from Japan but give the one I listed a shot if you need something to watch, its about as fast paced/back and forth as it gets for a AJPW heavyweight bout.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Still love Shield/Evolution II, but it did go on long and the elimination stipulation was not a good idea. Loved everybody's performance in that match though. Felt like an adventure.

Count me in on the side that likes Cena/Wyatt from Payback. Yes, it is a shitty match but it is non-stop comedy. I cannot find a boring moment in it. It's now my Angle/Benoit cage match. Still a garbage ending and dumb story, but I won't consider it a DUD like I would with that ER cage match. Just a fun spotfest from two guys that I would not expect a fun spotfest from.

cjack: I think the best way to summarize the debate is that I just don't look for the same stuff in a match as you do, and that's cool. As you've seen before, a stiff match does nothing for me for instance. I also don't have too big of a problem with the lack of color and brutal weapon spots in the WWE because I can get those things in other promotions and I agree with the emphasis on worker safety over putting on a bloodshed. This doesn't bother me also because I like the substitute that we got. Matches right now are a lot easier for me to watch and faster paced than I ever recall. But once again, it's a matter of taste. I acknowledge that Stan Hansen for example is 100x the worker and legend that Dolph Ziggler would ever be, but I'll watch an average Dolph match over a classic Stan Hansen slugfest every day of the week. 

Also worth pointing out to C2D that I never ever denied my thesis of the workrate now being better than ever. If you look back, my complaint about 2014 was on the booking and how the WWE keeps on teasing us and then retreating on letting young guys get their main event spot.


That Steve Williams vs. Kenta Kobashi match is one of the best possible gateways to King's Road. Easily Steve Williams' best match in his career and I think it would be my choice for 1993 MOTY. Certainly top 5. Williams is a really interesting case study because his work in Japan and in America are night and day. In Japan, he was allowed to be a monster brick wall that other wrestlers would have to maneuver around in order to take him down. That is the perfect role for Steve Williams that accentuates his positives and hides his flaws. In America, the emphasis was put on his amateur wrestling ability, which caused him to wrestle a more mat-based style. The simple fact though is that just because you're a good amateur wrestler doesn't mean that you can carry that style into professional wrestling, and I think Williams never was able to transition amateur into professional without hurting the pacing and flow of a match. An interesting thing to note during my watch-through of Mid-South. Steve Williams' gimmick in Mid-South was that he was a good dual sport athlete that didn't know much about pro wrestling. I do not know if a wrestler ever had this sort of gimmick before, but I think Bill Watts did this in order to put over pro wrestling as well as give a reason as to why Williams would make rookie mistakes in the ring.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Dat CM Punk podcast :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ryback will not make it out of Chicago alive if he comes here anytime soon. He is so stupid :lmao


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

CM Punk is a legend.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I advocate Kobashi vs Williams.

Jheri's point about Miz being a "movie star", only to NOT look out of place while in the WWE is genius. Problems w/the company in a nutshell, tbhayley.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*WWF Royal Rumble 2001:*

World Tag Team Championship: The Dudleyz vs. Edge and Christian ****1/4*
Ladder Match for the WWE Intercontinental Championship: Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit *****3/4*
WWE Women’s Championship: Chyna vs. Ivory *3/4**
WWE Heavyweight Championship: Triple H vs. Kurt Angle ****1/2* (Maybe a tad more as i quite enjoyed most of this TBH)
Royal Rumble *****1/4* (Still love it to this day, but it go down a tad on this watch)

Looking forward to getting to NWO.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Love that, well, love for Kobashi/Williams from August '93. I'm not heavily into 80's/90's Japan but that was the pretty damn epic masterpiece that made me like Kobashi (and Williams but moreso Kobashi) in the first place.

And I also agree that current-day wrestling is more "entertaining" to watch than pure classics who are less about pure entertainment and more about simply telling an epic story, which not always equals pure fun. The current generation is more akin of that kind of stuff anyway - non-wrestling e.g. The Avengers more popular than The Dark Knight Rises; wrestling e.g.: Cena/Wyatt LMS in higher regard than their WM match. A Dolph Ziggler match, unless we're talking about the Bryan Bragging Rights or Del Rio Payback classics, or Team Cena/Team Authority (which still holds up), won't ever be as good as, say, a Mick Foley classic. But for the most part, will it be easier to watch, or in other words, will it be that one match you'll feel like watching since you don't want to focus all that much on the story but want to get excited by wrasslin'? Well, yes. That being said, if I were placed in a distant island and could only pick 3 wrestling matches to watch, I'd definitely pick 'pure classic' over 'entertainment bliss' for sure.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Holy shit. That Punk/Cabana podcast significantly improved my Thanksgiving after not being able to watch Eagles/Cowboys due to Cox/Verizon pulling fucking FOX from Massachusetts.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

ATF said:


> Love that, well, love for Kobashi/Williams from August '93. I'm not heavily into 80's/90's Japan but that was the pretty damn epic masterpiece that made me like Kobashi (and Williams but moreso Kobashi) in the first place.
> 
> And I also agree that current-day wrestling is more "entertaining" to watch than pure classics who are less about pure entertainment and more about simply telling an epic story, which not always equals pure fun. The current generation is more akin of that kind of stuff anyway - non-wrestling e.g. The Avengers more popular than The Dark Knight Rises; wrestling e.g.: Cena/Wyatt LMS in higher regard than their WM match. A Dolph Ziggler match, unless we're talking about the Bryan Bragging Rights or Del Rio Payback classics, or Team Cena/Team Authority (which still holds up), won't ever be as good as, say, a Mick Foley classic. But for the most part, will it be easier to watch, or in other words, will it be that one match you'll feel like watching since you don't want to focus all that much on the story but want to get excited by wrasslin'? Well, yes. That being said, if I were placed in a distant island and could only pick 3 wrestling matches to watch, I'd definitely pick 'pure classic' over 'entertainment bliss' for sure.


*:larry

You've literally compared serious work from another era with less serious work from another era and came to an ass backwards conclusion. If you actually took more than just 10 seconds to generalise all of modern wrestling compared to 80s (or even 90s) wrestling you'd realise how far off the mark you are. *


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Other than a title match with a guy like Backlund or Flair, even the absolute top-tier best matches of 1980s US wrestling have that kind of you-don't-need-to-think-about-it quality to them (and even with those Backlund/Flair/Windham/Murdoch/whoever matches...it's really just a length issue). There's nothing more to Lawler/Dundee than 'these two don't get along right now and will punch each other in the face for 17 minutes'. DiBiase/Duggan is almost a revenge squash. Even the 90s, Michaels/Mankind is absolutely that kind of match. That might be the greatest WWE match ever. 'Telling an epic story' has basically gotten more and more prominent in wrestling as time's gone on. Not sure I remember any WWE match that had more 'layers' and stuff of the like to it than Cena/Punk at MITB. WWF's best match of the 80s was Sgt Slaughter going 'fuck you America rules' and beating the Iron Sheik in the head with a shoe. That also might be the greatest WWE match ever.


seabridge what the phuck is your sig?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Ryback will not make it out of Chicago alive if he comes here anytime soon. He is so stupid :lmao


"Either you tell me you're dumb as fuck, or you did it on purpose."

"I'm dumb as fuck. I'm sorry."

also, lol at him calling Ryback "steroid guy". The entire podcast is riveting.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

RatedR10 said:


> "Either you tell me you're dumb as fuck, or you did it on purpose."
> 
> "I'm dumb as fuck. I'm sorry."
> 
> also, lol at him calling Ryback "steroid guy". The entire podcast is riveting.


Was also funny when he was talking about Nexus debuting and The Ryback getting confused because Gallows was fighting back.

'We're supposed to beat you up' :lol


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Brye said:


> Holy shit. That Punk/Cabana podcast significantly improved my Thanksgiving after not being able to watch Eagles/Cowboys due to Cox/Verizon pulling fucking FOX from Massachusetts.


You didn't miss much. Today's slate of games was pretty bad.

And I really enjoyed the Punk podcast. I may just be a mark, but I agree with a good bit of what he said


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

PGSucks said:


> You didn't miss much. Today's slate of games was pretty bad.
> 
> And I really enjoyed the Punk podcast. I may just be a mark, but I agree with a good bit of what he said



Nope you aren't just a mark, I like Punk but wouldn't consider myself a huge mark for him and even I totally agreed with about 90% of what he said.

We got robbed, Punk vs Bryan for the WWE title should have main evented WM 30. That's the match we deserved, and it's bullshit what Punk went through only to have it be taken away from him, again, so that it could be handed to Randy and Dave who should have been in an "Evolution" Triple threat with Hunter and Ric as the special guest ref. 

I didn't think about it before, but I can totally see why Punk would be so bitter about part timers. He gets as hot as anyone in YEARS in 2011, only to have Hunter come out of retirement, beat him, then leave. He carries the title and gets booked as a mid card champ to John Cena, has Rock come back, beat him, steal his WM 29 spot, then leave. He gets robbed of the WM 29 main event, works hurt, only to have Taker come back, beat him, then leave. He finally gets time off, comes back before he's fully healed so Brock can beat him, then leave. That would drive damn near anyone crazy, part timers should be used to make new stars, not come back so they can beat the guys who work all the Raw's, all the house shows, beat their bodies to a pulp, then have to put over the part timer who is just dropping in for a pay check. Rock should have come back to put Punk over, like Hogan did with him, not give his rub to Cena who god knows didn't need it.

So yea, Punk suffering numerous concussions without the WWE ever trying to give him rest or let him heal, having his body beat to shit, have to endure the absolutely atrocious booking of WWE, and THEN have to be the guy who puts over all the part timers and never get his deserved spot in the main event, while simultaneously getting his pay cut and nobody having the courtesy to explain how playoffs will work with the network....I don't know too many guys who wouldn't want to quit, especialy if they have enough money where they don't need to do it anymore.


Plus, I simply love the visual I have of Punk sitting in Vince's office and telling Hunter that "I don't need to work with you at WM 30, I don't care if I'm going over, you need to work with me more than I need to work with you" and Hunter just having to grit his teeth and take it. That's some serious balls, even if Punk wasn't really right about Hunter needing to work with him, it's funny to think about Hunters ego taking that blow.

If the WWE doctor is really as bad as Punk says, and I don't know why he would lie about something like that, then that's a SERIOUS problem. Punk getting several concussions back to back to back, only to have it be diagnosed as a virus and be given antibiotics and told to get back to work, that's seriously fucked. Even the NFL isn't that bad. Having to beg the guy to give you treatment when you're in pain, having your toughness constantly questioned by a DOCTOR whose only motive is to get you on the road and back on tour.. That's really really low. He could have died from that infection, and the stupid doctor wouldn't even take the time to cut it out.

Glad Punk did this podcast, it pretty much confirms what I've suspected for a while, that Vince doesn't have a single clue what he's doing anymore and that no one backstage has the balls to question his retarded decisions or inhuman treatment of the wrestlers. It's sad, really. Also glad everyone can finally stfu about Punk "quitting". Dude walked out to preserve his sanity and body and was fired before he could come back, fired on his wedding day. Case closed.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

The whole doctors thing was shocking but not surprising. At best their incompetent fools and at worst, they tell the performers what they want to hear to keep them performing.

Just ridiclous.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I admit that I don't even hate Punk anymore. I still believe he has a strong sense of self-entitlement that I don't agree with how much he thinks he deserves, but I've gained respect for him with his straightforward approach and all the shit he put up with physically in hopes of getting a WM main event.

I totally disagree with the whole "Rock came and stole his spotlight" nonsense spewed above since Rock's comeback had been planned out before Punk had even became a top guy in 2011. And with The Rock, they stick to the plans simply because he brings in money and at the end of the day, it's all about the money for WWE to run their business. Punk could've been inserted in a triple threat, however. Would've probably made that snoozefest main event better too.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I admit that I don't even hate Punk anymore. I still believe he has a strong sense of self-entitlement that I don't agree with how much he thinks he deserves, but I've gained respect for him with his straightforward approach and all the shit he put up with physically in hopes of getting a WM main event.
> 
> I totally disagree with the whole "Rock came and stole his spotlight" nonsense spewed above since Rock's comeback had been planned out before Punk had even became a top guy in 2011. And with The Rock, they stick to the plans simply because he brings in money and at the end of the day, it's all about the money for WWE to run their business. Punk could've been inserted in a triple threat, however. Would've probably made that snoozefest main event better too.



They bring Rock back to bring eyeballs on the product, not make more money. I'm not sure about WM 28, but all the other PPV's Rock worked at, while they did do a better butyrate, were actually less profitable because Rock got paid so much. You can check it on the WWE's quarterly reports from that stretch of SVS, RR, and EC that Rock worked. The events sold more, but ultimately made less profit.

The thing I do agree with Punk on, is that Rock should be brought back to help make someone, not go over guys like Punk and only lose to a guy like Cena, who absolutely gained nothing from the win. You have Punk beat Rock for the WWE title at WM 29, that's gonna mean something. Having Cena beat him meant nothing, and the crowd shit all over it. Rock doesn't NEED to beat anyone, he's the fucking Rock. He's as bullet proof as it gets. 

Why not bring Rock back for WM 28, beat Cena in his hometown of Miami, Punk drops the belt to Cena at NoC, Punk wins the 2013 RR, Rock wins the title at EC, then you have Rock vs Punk in the WM 29 main event, where Rock drops the belt to Punk, cementing him as a headliner on Cena's level? Or even better, have Punk NEVER drop the belt, face off with Taker in the WM 29 main event, Streak vs 500+ day title run, and have Taker lose to Punk. If I have a choice between the Streak ending at WM 29 or WM 30 to Brock, I'm taking WM 29. Then Punk never leaves and we don't have this shitty situation at all. All Punk wanted was his WM main event, something he should have had in 2011, 2012, 2013, and 2014. Atleast ONE of those years should have gone to him, instead we have Miz/Cena, Rock/Cena, Rock/Cena, and Orton/Batista/Bryan. You don't think any of those would have benefitted with Punk in that spot? 

You can always say hindsight is 20/20, but this stuff has been obvious for years. You need to bring part timers back and use them to make the guys on the full time roster more over. Batista was booked AWFULLY for his return, but the one good thing they did was use him to make Bryan and the Shield. Batista put Bryan over about as well as you could ever ask of him, he did the same with the Shield. 

It's not rocket science, use established, bullet proof guys who don't need wins to put over the next crop of stars. WWE has consistently failed to do this.


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)




----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I only heard about Survivor Series making them less profit but that was a combination of the show taking place at MSG as well as The Rock's paycheck. I think Elimination Chamber did less too, but buys went down because UK fans could have the show for free on Sky. WM28 got the highest WM buyrate in history, WM27 would've BOMBED had it not been for Rock being the guest host and WM29 still passed 1 million despite the rematches nobody wanted.

As for Punk main eventing four WMs in a row, I think he's really got you believing with that shit. Rock/Cena II is the one time where Punk's involvement could have been beneficial to the overall quality. The elimination match idea he had laid out was actually a good one. He gets his main event and they can do Rock vs Cena again with Cena getting the obligatory rub that they want to give him in every fucking show with everybody who has even the slightest bit of relevance.

Punk and everybody else had ABSOLUTELY NO BUSINESS being involved in WM28's main event. Anyone saying that is absolutely delusional and embarrassing themselves. That was booked when Punk was irrelevant and on his way out of the door plus it was a dream match that many had been hoping for for several years. WM30 was Bryan's time. I have no problem with how the show turned out to be, it went on just fine without Punk on the card at all. He deserved the main event in a triple threat at WM29, the rest would be just feeding his gigantic ego. Oh and he had ZERO momentum during WM27's time. Sure, he would've been better than Miz, but he had nothing going for him at the time and it's simple as that. Let's think up a similar scenario for next WM. Cesaro vs Brock is more likely to deliver than Brock vs Reigns, but the former will not do well business wise because Cesaro has spent the whole year getting buried for some dumb reason post-WM.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I only heard about Survivor Series making them less profit but that was a combination of the show taking place at MSG as well as The Rock's paycheck. I think Elimination Chamber did less too, but buys went down because UK fans could have the show for free on Sky. WM28 got the highest WM buyrate in history, WM27 would've BOMBED had it not been for Rock being the guest host and WM29 still passed 1 million despite the rematches nobody wanted.
> 
> As for Punk main eventing four WMs in a row, I think he's really got you believing with that shit. Rock/Cena II is the one time where Punk's involvement could have been beneficial to the overall quality. The elimination match idea he had laid out was actually a good one. He gets his main event and they can do Rock vs Cena again with Cena getting the obligatory rub that they want to give him in every fucking show with everybody who has even the slightest bit of relevance.
> 
> Punk and everybody else had ABSOLUTELY NO BUSINESS being involved in WM28's main event. Anyone saying that is absolutely delusional and embarrassing themselves. That was booked when Punk was irrelevant and on his way out of the door plus it was a dream match that many had been hoping for for several years. WM30 was Bryan's time. I have no problem with how the show turned out to be, it went on just fine without Punk on the card at all. He deserved the main event in a triple threat at WM29, the rest would be just feeding his gigantic ego. Oh and he had ZERO momentum during WM27's time. Sure, he would've been better than Miz, but he had nothing going for him at the time and it's simple as that. Let's think up a similar scenario for next WM. Cesaro vs Brock is more likely to deliver than Brock vs Reigns, but the former will not do well business wise because Cesaro has spent the whole year getting buried for some dumb reason post-WM.



When did I say he should have main evented 4 WrestleManias in a row? I said for 4 years straight he COULD have been involved in the main event, that he should have at least gotten 1 of them. Preferably for me, he would have main evented 29 vs Taker or Rock and 30 vs Bryan. 28, with Rock/Cena doing the year build, of course that's gonna be the main event. WM 27, that's a tricky one. Punk wasn't big yet, Miz was a horrible option. Batista was gone. That would have been the time to do Cena/Taker or even a rerun of Trips/Cena. I don't think people would have bought Orton/Cena, but even that would have been miles better than Miz/Cena. Out of all the options, Miz was definitely the worst choice. Shit, Jericho/Cena would have been better than that crap. The Rock "saving" that from bombing is absurd to me, that show still bombed big time, even if it wasn't reflected in the buys. How many people really forked over $70 to watch Rock cut a boring 20 minute promo? That was WM 27 right, or am I getting my shows mixed up? That show started with a never ending boring ass promo by the Rock, and concluded with Rock giving Cena the Rock Bottom. That's a draw? Then again, what the hell else could have caused that show to sell even 500,000 units? It certainly wasn't the card, only Trips/Taker had any buzz.

I'd also like to argue, though I don't have proof cause you can't prove this sort of thing, that the only reason WM 29 surpassed 1 million buys was because of the Punk/Taker matchup. That's literally the ONLY match people were excited for in the lead up. Casuals had already seen their "dream match" of Cena/Rock the year before, and while it was a pretty good match, it wasn't HBK/Taker WM 25 where everyone was dying to see the rematch. That WM 29 show was single handedly saved by Punk and the Phenom tearing it fucking DOWN. The Streak match is always a top draw, and Punk did everything he could in the build to make it seem like it might end. I very well could be wrong, maybe people really were lining up to fork over $70 to see Rock/Cena II, but if that's the case why was it shit on so badly by the 70,000+ in attendance? Meh.

You have to admit, Punk going 0-4 in getting a WrestleMania main event from 2011-2014 is pretty damn stupid if you ask me. Before Bryan came along, he was the hottest thing since Cena in 05'. He deserved it, beat his body to a pulp and risked long term injury trying to prove it, ate plates and plates of bullshit along the way from Vince, Hunter, and the rest of the WWE creative team, and in the end had to keep watching part timers come in for 1 night only to take his spot, or watch his spot get handed to someone less worthy. That would make you wanna throw up your hands and walk away, too. Don't see how anyone can blame him, especially because in the end WWE are the ones who chose to fire him on his wedding day. They burned that bridge to the ground, not Punk.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

I don't see a spot for him an any Wrestlemania main event since 2011 other than maybe 29

27 should have been the culmination of Nexus and been Barrett-Cena
28 Rock-Cena's fine
29 is the one I could maybe be persuaded on but only if Cena beat Rock at 28 because for purely selfish reasons I wanted Cena to get a win over Rock, I would have gave him that at 28 and maybe we could have had Cena-Punk for the title
30 turned out absolutely perfect and I wouldnt change a thing about it even though they never planned for it


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## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Speaking as the resident Punk mark, I somewhat agree with some points that others like Starbuck and C2D made about Punk's booking involving Wrestlemania and part-timers. 

There is no doubt whatsoever that Punk should have defeated HHH. That is not up for debate. The streak should have never ended, so it made sense for Taker to go over especially since the match was in memory of Paul Bearer. On top of that, Punk did not say he wanted to beat Taker and if he did win, his legacy would be that he was the one to end the streak. That is not the type of legacy that Punk should have since his career is defined by more than the streak and it should not be overshadowed by that one accomplishment. Lesnar was another one where I agree with Lesnar winning and the match itself went down perfectly. I do think it would be nice for Punk to have gotten his comeuppance at Hell in a Cell, but Lesnar was too busy hunting moose at that time. The Rock is a more complicated situation because there was an open period for Rock to lose to Punk without ending the feud or killing Rock's heat. I think it made sense though for Rock to take the title from Punk at Royal Rumble (even if I would have preferred otherwise) and defending it successfully at Elimination Chamber. Seems more so that Punk was just in the wrong place at the wrong time in most of these situations, but part of the reason for that was because he was facing babyfaces in three of those situations, and the heel that he did feud with just so happens to be the most "credible" wrestler of all-time.

With regards to the Wrestlemania main event, let's go down the line chronologically. I think it's a blessing in disguise that Punk didn't get the WM 27 main event spot because all he would have been was a third wheel in a bigger storyline. How many of us even remember that Miz won that match? That's not the legacy that Punk deserves. WM 28 should have been Rock/Cena all the way, but I hope that show is a lesson to the WWE not to ever pull the stunt of booking a main event a year in advance. In some ways WM 28 was similar to WM 22 where the hotter feud (Cena/Edge, Cena/Punk) that in an ideal world should have main evented had to take a backseat to some other plan, but once again Rock/Cena should have main evented that night considering that it was booked in advance.

Wrestlemania 29 is where I think we should all agree on that it was Punk's time. There were two viable options for what the main event should have been that night where Punk was involved: Punk/Rock/Cena and Punk/Taker. Punk/Taker could have (and should have) been easily slid into the main event that night considering that fans were more hyped for that match and it even main evented the go-home RAW. On top of that, Punk/Taker would have made the crowd go home happy and you can make the argument that the streak match that night was bigger than the title match. The other option in Punk/Rock/Cena also made a lot more sense as a main event than Rock/Cena as Punk was the guy that both of the other wrestlers were targeting for months. I don't know if it's right to say this, but I kinda blame The Rock for why Punk didn't main event Mania because Rock had the most leverage as to who could main event alongside him, and he chose a stupid idea that nobody liked. Here you had a guy who was just as over as anyone in the company at the time and even got cheered against Rock and Taker as a heel, and he carried the company for an entire year. And what do you do with him? You treat him like the red-headed stepchild in the group of main eventers even though the fans saw him as being equal to HHH, Brock, Cena, Taker, and Rock.

I don't have any gripes on how WM 30 went down. Punk/Bryan would have been an amazing match, but what did end up happening fit in perfectly with the Daniel Bryan narrative. On top of that, Punk would have had to turn heel for that match to work, and nobody wanted to boo Punk anymore. It's unfortunate that Punk originally had to "settle" with working with HHH because at that moment, HHH needed Punk more than Punk needed him. But eh, what happened ended up working out and Bryan was more deserving of the main event than anyone including Punk.


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## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> When did I say he should have main evented 4 WrestleManias in a row? I said for 4 years straight he COULD have been involved in the main event, that he should have at least gotten 1 of them. Preferably for me, he would have main evented 29 vs Taker or Rock and 30 vs Bryan. 28, with Rock/Cena doing the year build, of course that's gonna be the main event. WM 27, that's a tricky one. Punk wasn't big yet, Miz was a horrible option. Batista was gone. That would have been the time to do Cena/Taker or even a rerun of Trips/Cena. I don't think people would have bought Orton/Cena, but even that would have been miles better than Miz/Cena. Out of all the options, Miz was definitely the worst choice. Shit, Jericho/Cena would have been better than that crap. The Rock "saving" that from bombing is absurd to me, that show still bombed big time, even if it wasn't reflected in the buys. How many people really forked over $70 to watch Rock cut a boring 20 minute promo? That was WM 27 right, or am I getting my shows mixed up? That show started with a never ending boring ass promo by the Rock, and concluded with Rock giving Cena the Rock Bottom. That's a draw? Then again, what the hell else could have caused that show to sell even 500,000 units? It certainly wasn't the card, only Trips/Taker had any buzz.


You didn't outright say it but implied that he belonged in all of them in some way, which is simply inaccurate. It's bad luck on his part too because when he was at his hottest, Rock/Cena was already planned as the main event for WM28 and as I said before, no one should've gotten involved in that. I wouldn't even accepted Orton sticking his nose in that just in case you get the feeling that I'm saying this out of hate for Punk, which I ain't.

Rock saved that from bombing in terms of buys, obviously that's what I was referring to. The show itself sucked and Rock didn't add anything to it other than give something slightly redeemable about that awful main event but people paid money to see what he would do even though he was just the guest host. Shit, I can remember counting the days towards WM because of how excited I was to see him back. No other Mania I've followed the road to has gone as slow as that one, which is funny because that's the worst WM in the past 10-15 years.



> I'd also like to argue, though I don't have proof cause you can't prove this sort of thing, that the only reason WM 29 surpassed 1 million buys was because of the Punk/Taker matchup. That's literally the ONLY match people were excited for in the lead up. Casuals had already seen their "dream match" of Cena/Rock the year before, and while it was a pretty good match, it wasn't HBK/Taker WM 25 where everyone was dying to see the rematch. That WM 29 show was single handedly saved by Punk and the Phenom tearing it fucking DOWN. The Streak match is always a top draw, and Punk did everything he could in the build to make it seem like it might end. I very well could be wrong, maybe people really were lining up to fork over $70 to see Rock/Cena II, but if that's the case why was it shit on so badly by the 70,000+ in attendance? Meh.


In Punk's defense, WM sells itself as a PPV. With that you've already got 800k-900k buys in the pocket from the get go as well as a sellout show. But the involvement of part-timers helped it get over 1 million, specifically Rock and maybe Brock. If the show had just had Punk vs Cena in the main event and Undertaker in some undercard streak match, I doubt it would've sold as much no matter how much smarks swear Punk vs Cena was the second coming of Rock vs Austin.

I do agree that Rock vs Cena II was no longer exciting, but in the rating breakdowns, I remember their segments doing well which shows there was still a degree of interests even if the match ended up sucking. As for the crowd shitting on it, they really didn't - it was just the corny ending that everybody hated and rightfully so.



> You have to admit, Punk going 0-4 in getting a WrestleMania main event from 2011-2014 is pretty damn stupid if you ask me. Before Bryan came along, he was the hottest thing since Cena in 05'. He deserved it, beat his body to a pulp and risked long term injury trying to prove it, ate plates and plates of bullshit along the way from Vince, Hunter, and the rest of the WWE creative team, and in the end had to keep watching part timers come in for 1 night only to take his spot, or watch his spot get handed to someone less worthy. That would make you wanna throw up your hands and walk away, too. Don't see how anyone can blame him, especially because in the end WWE are the ones who chose to fire him on his wedding day. They burned that bridge to the ground, not Punk.


I give you this, Punk should've been in the WM29 main event. He had come off a big year, holding the title for 434 days and in a big feud with The Rock over the title. They could've saved his rematch for WM and just done the elimination match idea he gave them. Triple threat with Punk getting eliminated after 10 minutes and then Rock vs Cena go at it for 15 minutes. Same thing as what took place, only match has less chance of being an endless finisher fest since they save the work for less time and Punk gets his wish and what he was promised by Vince.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I don't agree entirely on losing to the part timers. I mean I understand his point that he works everyday but these part timers have a mystique around them. If all of them lost to CM Punk, it would have made them all weak. I think it was funnyfaces who said that CM Punk was the Mick Foley of this generation, he is the guy that put over the bigger stars and he made an excellent show doing it. The fact CM Punk went to work with these part timers shows how much WWE trust and value him. Guys like Orton are treated worse. I've been asking a segment/match with Lesnar and Rock for ages and he still hasn't got it. It's highly unlikely now. If Orton goes in the ring with a part timer, I would be pleased to see him work with them. I wouldn't care about the win and loss record. CM Punk got the chance to work with every part timer. There is a reason why Punk beat Y2J, also a part timer, and that's because Punk is a bigger name than Y2J (in 2011-2013 period at least). Only wrestler that Punk deserved to beat was HHH. Maybe Rock too but Punk admitted that if he didn't feud with the Rock, the title reign would have ended in July. 

Even when Punk lost, it's not like he was booked like crap. For example, Rock hit two Rock Bottoms (including one on concrete floor) and a People's Elbow which was meant to be symbolic that the people (who Punk was attacking prior to the match) have beaten Punk. If anything, Rock looked weak in that match. Shield powerbomb him through a table and Punk takes a good 2 minutes or so to pin him. Surely Rock has enough time to recover from that? And in the Elimination chamber match, CM Punk had Rock beat if it wasn't for the referee being hurt. Rock again two Rock Bottoms and a People's Elbow to finish off Punk. And in the Lesnar match, people were complaining that Punk looked too strong. Honestly, if you hold the title for 434 days and it takes the ROCK to end it (arguably the biggest wrestling star of all time) then it shows how legit you were as a champion. As for Punk ending the streak, I don't think it would have been the perfect time to do it. Bearer had just died so they favoured a typical babyface winning to pay tribute to his 'dad' scenario. Even the build up to the streak match was not good. A random fatal four way match decided the challenger and they just used the Bearer death as a storyline.


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## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Last night I also rewatched the Punk/Ryback TLC match from early last year. Goodness gracious, that was the mother of all carryjobs. I love the match even more now, but Punk took three absolutely painful bumps in that match. Lots of original spots that fit in smoothly in that match such as Punk's flying knee that he did after jumping up from the stairs. You can tell that Punk called every single thing in the match and Ryback's job was simply to follow Punk's lead. Ryback's selling of his knee was god awful, but he sold the Shield triple powerbomb really well by going as far as to cough to signify losing his breath. Super fun match with no dull moments and everything Punk did in that match was GOAT level, but knowing that Punk's selling in that match was probably based on legit injuries instead of "acting" does make me look at the match differently.

Tried to find that moment where Ryback kicked Punk in the ribs in a tag match involving Bryan and Axel, but I had a hard time finding it. There was one kick in that match in question where Punk was crouching and Ryback kicked him in the mid-section, but it didn't look like the kick hit anything. There was a stomp that Ryback did on Punk that might have been it, but it didn't look malicious. I did catch that moment in the Nexus beatdown where some "fucker" as Punk put it raked his eyes just after he got laser eye surgery. :lmao It was Daniel Bryan!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

This may be a unpopular opinion, and i know the whole commentary team is dogshit for most if the time but,

I want JBL to fuck off too at this point. Just shouts over everything and has a bipolor/schizophrenic nature to his delivery, most notably during the Sting debut.


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## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Did the spot where he missed the table and threw Punk onto the concrete happen at a house show? Don't recall ever seeing that.


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## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

Brock said:


> This may be a unpopular opinion, and i know the whole commentary team is dogshit for most if the time but,
> 
> I want JBL to fuck off too at this point. Just shouts over everything and has a bipolor/schizophrenic nature to his delivery, most notably during the Sting debut.


*Is that really unpopular at this stage? I don't know if people on here still like him but JBL is absolutely atrocious on whatever I watch and is just making fun of Cole, spouting pointless facts he often fucks up, laughing at bad jokes and being Vince's eccentric voice on commentary. He trash talks babyfaces in a way that just buries them and isn't even a heel commentator because he flips sides so often. Anytime I watched a Bryan match during his main event run JBL just rekt him calling him a troll and a gnome all the time. There's a way for a heel to insult babyfaces and it's not pointing out actually flaws that can turn fans off. Rick Rude never called Steamboat out for his shitty karate, no he called him out for being an adulterist piece of shit who cheated on his wife and didn't care about his kids. Insults like that get heat because they're so obviously not true and they don't hurt the babyface. *


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## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I wish someone could cut the part in Punk's interview where he goes in on Triple H. I legit clapped after he said all he had to say about losing to HHH, not making as much money as him for Mania, etc. Would love to listen to that part over and over again.


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Seabs said:


> *Is that really unpopular at this stage? I don't know if people on here still like him but JBL is absolutely atrocious on whatever I watch and is just making fun of Cole, spouting pointless facts he often fucks up, laughing at bad jokes and being Vince's eccentric voice on commentary. He trash talks babyfaces in a way that just buries them and isn't even a heel commentator because he flips sides so often. Anytime I watched a Bryan match during his main event run JBL just rekt him calling him a troll and a gnome all the time. There's a way for a heel to insult babyfaces and it's not pointing out actually flaws that can turn fans off. Rick Rude never called Steamboat out for his shitty karate, no he called him out for being an adulterist piece of shit who cheated on his wife and didn't care about his kids. Insults like that get heat because they're so obviously not true and they don't hurt the babyface. *


EXACTLY. For reference on how to put baby faces over as heel commentator, you simply need to listen to Heenan or Jesse the Body. They would say the baby face was dumb or stupid when they refused to cheat, they would say they were ugly or had too much oil in their hair, they would say "I'll admit he's one heck of a wrestler, it's just a shame he has a brain the size of a peanut" or something to that affect. Things are blatantly untrue that will rally fan support for the baby face. At the same time, they put the heels over by taking all the evil, cowardly qualities of the heel and espousing them as virtuous or "just being smart". That's how it's done, it's not rocket science. JBL saying "Daniel Bryan is a troll, but he is fun to watch" accomplishes nothing but burying the baby face. Being fun to watch. I wish that fucking phrase would just get erased from all commentators vocabulary. You never, ever heard Jr, or Heenan, or Lawler back in the day, or Jesse claim that someone was fun to watch while they were out there kicking ass.

By the same token, JR was a MASTER of rooting for the baby face and putting the heel over. Just listen to his commentary during Foley/Hunter matches. He ALWAYS mentions how Triple H "is a no good son of a bitch" and he also always adds in the caveat "that he's an incredible technical wrestler, maybe the best technical champion in the history of the WWE". That's how it's done. He always showed compassion for both guys, always made everything seem important, and ALWAYS sold the moment appropriately without over or under selling the action. There is a reason he's the Michael Jordan of the commentary booth.


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## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ryan193 said:


> Did the spot where he missed the table and threw Punk onto the concrete happen at a house show? Don't recall ever seeing that.


No. It was on a RAW in Chicago.


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## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Fuck me, looked like he hit the back of his head on the edge of the table as it was breaking and heading vertical. Why would anybody think a gorilla press into a table can go smoothly?


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## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> I wish someone could cut the part in Punk's interview where he goes in on Triple H. I legit clapped after he said all he had to say about losing to HHH, not making as much money as him for Mania, etc. Would love to listen to that part over and over again.







This part covers the meeting Punk had w/ Vince and Haitch before leaving. & Agreed. It was fucking stupid and I'm glad Punk knows and acknowledges that. He should resent Triple H for what went down.


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## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

On Punk main eventing, he could've easily been slotted into the WM27 main event. He actually had a feud with Cena going on and they could've had Punk win the title at Elimination chamber that year, main event Mania, and then either keep the title for awhile as the heel leader of Nexus or do what Miz did and drop it at the next PPV. The only issue I have with this in hindsight is we probably wouldn't have gotten the "pipe bomb" promo that ultimately did turn Punk into a main eventer and cemented him in that status. Hell, not just as a main eventer, but the #2 guy in the company. After his title reign ended, I'm sure it would've been back to business as usual with Punk in the mid-card. So main eventing WM27, while it would've been a viable option, I'm glad it didn't happen.

WM28 would've been Punk's time had it not been for Rock vs. Cena. Absolutely nothing should've closed the show over that and ultimately there would be no reason for Punk to butt into the match to make it a triple threat. No way in hell Punk/Jericho closes the show over it. Hell, Punk/Jericho wasn't even the second biggest match on the card as Taker/HHH HIAC definitely had that covered and that's not disputable. However, it could've main evented over that Taker/HHH match if that was it's only competition, but Rock/Cena? No way, that match needed to go on last. I believe 100% that the title match should close out the majority of PPV's, especially Wrestlemania. Despite it being MOTN and MOTY, I still don't believe Taker/HBK should've closed WM26. Rock/Cena, like Rock/Hogan, is one of those matches where the first time around at Mania, it should close the show. So Punk main eventing WM28 wasn't a realistic option IMO, although he did steal the show with Jericho so like the match with Taker, he at least has that going for him (well, to some people anyway).

WM29 was probably his best bet. He had a hot title run and two potential main event matches. He could've been put in the Rock/Cena match to make it a triple threat. This option would've definitely had Punk losing, but it would've ultimately satisfied Punk's quest to main event Mania, and it would've been a lot better than what we got... well, except we wouldn't have had Taker/Punk. That would be a big blow to Mania for me, and if Taker/Brock turned out anything like how it did at WM30 then I'm glad they didn't go that route. So that brings me to main event #2... 500 day title reign vs. 20-0 streak. You can sprinkle parts of the Paul Bearer stuff in it (I don't care what anyone says, I loved the Taker/Punk build up) but don't make it the whole thing like it ended up being. By this point Punk would've beat Rock and truly made it seem like he can't be stopped and his reign will never end. Enter Undertaker, and the build writes itself. The match goes down as it did, but the ending is up in the air. Do you have Taker beat Punk and then drop it at the next PPV to... well, whoever they want? Or does Punk end the streak, keep the title, and really seem like there's no end in sight for his reign until... say, Daniel Bryan dethrones him at Summerslam? Then you build up to Bryan/Cena at WM30 and go from there. That would've been awesome and what I'd have loved to see. Rock/Cena II and Brock/HHH II could've still happened, but neither of them NEEDED to be the main event without the title. This is the path I would've loved most.

WM30 could've been another opportunity, but again, as a heel, not a face. Bryan takes the face spot because there would be no reason to have anyone try to take that spot. Fans would've been more accepting of Punk than Batista but the bottom line is people wanted BRYAN in the main event of Mania and as champion, not Punk. Instead, forget about Punk/Brock for the time being, that can still happen down the road. Have him win MITB, and cash in on Bryan after the match at Summerslam like Orton did. But unlike Orton, have Punk go completely corporate. Have him be that smiling employee who always praises WWE and makes it seem like it's the greatest place to be. Not to the extent of Cena where he acts like the people's champion, but he sings the praises of the WWE and The Authority. One or two things happens here. One is that Punk becomes the most hated man on the planet. Nevermind that HHH and Stephanie are big heat magnets in their own right, Punk would flat-out betray and go against everything that he acted like he was working towards. Punk never betrayed who he was in his heel title run in 2012-2013. This time though he becomes the corporate champion that everyone hates. If Punk could truly commit to the character and make it seem as real as possible, there would be much louder and strong "YOU SOLD OUT" chants than there are at Seth Rollins. He would've actually gotten legit heat being a sell out and aligning with two of the most hated heels of all time. The support Bryan got I think would've went up as well, the main event at Mania 30 would've been better and potentially a classic (not that the actual main event of WM30 was bad, but I'm not that high on it like some are), and Punk would've gotten his main event at Mania and potentially still been around. Although who knows? Maybe he would've just left when his contract expired anyway and all that would do is prolong his eventual leave. I would've been happy with this option.


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> On Punk main eventing, he could've easily been slotted into the WM27 main event. He actually had a feud with Cena going on and they could've had Punk win the title at Elimination chamber that year, main event Mania, and then either keep the title for awhile as the heel leader of Nexus or do what Miz did and drop it at the next PPV. The only issue I have with this in hindsight is we probably wouldn't have gotten the "pipe bomb" promo that ultimately did turn Punk into a main eventer and cemented him in that status. Hell, not just as a main eventer, but the #2 guy in the company. After his title reign ended, I'm sure it would've been back to business as usual with Punk in the mid-card. So main eventing WM27, while it would've been a viable option, I'm glad it didn't happen.
> 
> WM28 would've been Punk's time had it not been for Rock vs. Cena. Absolutely nothing should've closed the show over that and ultimately there would be no reason for Punk to butt into the match to make it a triple threat. No way in hell Punk/Jericho closes the show over it. Hell, Punk/Jericho wasn't even the second biggest match on the card as Taker/HHH HIAC definitely had that covered and that's not disputable. However, it could've main evented over that Taker/HHH match if that was it's only competition, but Rock/Cena? No way, that match needed to go on last. I believe 100% that the title match should close out the majority of PPV's, especially Wrestlemania. Despite it being MOTN and MOTY, I still don't believe Taker/HBK should've closed WM26. Rock/Cena, like Rock/Hogan, is one of those matches where the first time around at Mania, it should close the show. So Punk main eventing WM28 wasn't a realistic option IMO, although he did steal the show with Jericho so like the match with Taker, he at least has that going for him (well, to some people anyway).
> 
> ...




I love, absolutely LOVE the idea of Punk as the corporate sell out. If he, not Orton, was the guy smugly smirking into the ring, constantly screwing over Bryan in the fall of 2013, that would have been absolutely tremendous. The great part is, Punk and Bryan are so good and have such amazing chemistry, you can easily get 4-5 matches out of them and keep the fans wanting more. How cool would a Punk vs Brock vs Bryan main event at WM 30 be? There is just so many different, more interesting and fresh, ways you can go with a heel corporate champ Punk. He's just such a tremendous bad guy, as great as Randy can be, he just couldn't get the same kind of heat that a sell out Punk could get in 2013. Fans would so badly want to cheer for him, but he would strip away every single good thing about him while simultaneously be holding down the guy the fans truly adore and want to succeed, Bryan.

Man, what a missed opportunity. That could have been classic. Best booking idea I've read on here in a long time.


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## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Punk/Taker should have definitely closed out WM 29. Had the WWE done that, I'm sure they could have reached some middle ground. Punk loses the title to part-time Rock but gets the main event of Mania. Instead, they put Twice in a Lifetime on last. It was a win-lose situation. I think it would have even been better for Cena/Rock to not go on last. Punk/Taker was a much hotter feud based on how personal it got. It was more entertaining than watching Cena and Rock rehash the same promos from the previous year. The fact is everyone knew Cena was going to win back the title. It was predictable. Therefore, it didn't warrant the main event spot. Punk/Taker, on the other hand, was 50/50. It was the more exciting match on paper and, as it turned out, on the day of the show. 

Another thing I took away from the interview (and I haven't seen anyone mention it as yet) is the whole situation surrounding Bryan. Maybe it's because everyone else already knew and I just didn't want to believe it, but I was shocked to hear that WWE actually didn't want to put the title on Bryan. I can't believe they were legit fucking with him like that. After hearing what Punk had to say about HHH never liking him, it makes me wonder if Bryan is in the same boat. Did HHH really mean what he said about Bryan? Then why the fuck would he put him over like that in the Mania match? I guess it's a case of "I'll do it only because it's bringing in $$$$ not because I genuinely want to". HHH is perfect for the corporate world. What a two-faced bitch.

I haven't been this emotional in a post in a long, long time but that Punk interview just has me confused. Maybe it's because I always lived in denial and gave WWE the benefit of the doubt, but I just can't believe what I heard in that interview. If HHH hates these indy guys so much, then why the fuck is he signing so much of them? There's definitely a hidden agenda in there somewhere and I won't be surprised if they're being signed so that they're brainwashed into the "This is my dream job, let me keep my mouth shut and put over generic muscle guy #32084" system. Call me crazy, tell me I'm overreacting, but after listening to what Punk had to say, I'm not surprised that Sami Callihan hasn't gotten on the NXT show yet. They're afraid an indy midget will get over on his own and that can't happen. 

Kudos to Punk for doing this interview. When he said that his intention wasn't to bash WWE, he played his cards right. Of course that was his intention. But by saying that, he leaves it up to the listener to decide whether or not the WWE is perhaps the biggest immoral/unethical company. And obviously, the viewer is going to decide that they are. I hope that small, but audible, section of the crowd starts loud CM Punk chant and keeps it going all throughout the night. It's funny how just a few days ago I hated the chant but now that I know the story, I hope it never dies. Again, I maybe overreacting (ok I am) but fuck it, I don't care. Justice is justice and what's right is right. It's not just Punk. It's Bryan. It's Ziggler. It's all the guys who work their ass off every night. To me that's what the CM Punk chant represents.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hearing all this I've heard about HHH in recent months makes me want to dislike him now. From Del Rio (or was it Ricardo?) saying he's openly racist in the lockerroom, to his well known backstage politics and general narcissism with all the negative things said about him, I don't know anymore. I always wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt on some things but being racist is crossing the line. I can't believe it, but I'm actually on Punk's side with this. I've gone from wanting the "CM Punk" chants to fuck off with everyone doing it being banned from the building to now wanting the shows sabotaged again. Admittedly, it might be because I was actually enjoying the product earlier this year when the fan backlash was at an all-time high whereas now the product is miserable and absolutely awful.

Speaking of backlash.....

*BACKLASH 1999:*

The Brood vs APA & Mideon - ★½
Al Snow vs Hardcore Holly - ★★★
Goldust vs Godfather - ½★
New Age Outlaws vs Owen Hart & Jeff Jarrett - ★★
Mankind vs Big Show - ★★★½
Triple H vs X-Pac - ★★¾
Undertaker vs Ken Shamrock - ★★
The Rock vs Stone Cold - ★★★★

Overall a very fun show and certainly going to be one of the better PPVs in 1999. The hardcore match and Boiler Room Brawl are what you'd expect from them and fun brawls. Mankind crawling to the door with his blood leaving its mark every step looked like it was straight out of a horror movie. Disappointed in Taker/Shamrock being so boring. Had hopes for it to deliver and they had a good concept going with the submission based style and some counters but it was just boring and way too long. Dead crowd didn't help. Main event is a blast as you'd expect from these two and I find it impossible to hate The Rock just from that hilarious camera stunner moment. :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Love Backlash 1999 and I have fond memories of it as a kid. I think the only match on that show I didn't like was Godfather/Goldust. I was reading some old IWC forum posts from that time period, and the Owen/Jarrett vs. NAO tag match in particular got a lot of love for being the closest thing to a "traditional" territory tag team match in the Attitude Era. Snow/Holly was very fun and I like the Brood so their match was alright with me. Love Mankind vs. Big Show for those same reasons. Keep on the lookout because I recall there being one or two more Boiler Room Brawls similar to this in 1999. Undertaker/Shamrock gets polarizing reviews but I liked it because I'm a huge MMA fan. I really liked X-Pac vs. HHH, and at the time it happened, you could really tell that Triple H was going to be the future top heel with the way he was portrayed. Rock/Austin was outstanding and a top five match that year.

I don't think Triple H has an agenda against indie guys in particular despite what the dirtsheets have been saying for over a decade. I think Punk is just a special case of a guy that he just never liked for whatever reason. It also doesn't help that even though he was mostly justified in his actions, Punk is still a gigantic asshole that makes life tough for the higher-ups. But it's sad to hear every single time from recently released workers about how everyone in power is out of touch with the fans when it is so damn easy to understand what they want. Perhaps it isn't a case of ignorance and more so a case of stubbornness, but I don't understand how a publicly traded company can be so infuriating in that sense. Is it that hard to book a talent like Cesaro or Sheamus correctly?

I don't think Punk really cares much about what his legacy is, but it seems as if he will now be the symbol or martyr of how politics can ruin the potential of world class talent. I know it's annoying to hear people chant his name in things like an AJ match, but people really did unconditionally love Punk and miss him more than anyone since probably when The Rock left for Hollywood. And the chant for Punk was not simply just to sound cool or disruptive, but it was also used as a waking call to the WWE that the fans want something that isn't what they're given. When wrestlers leave on not so good terms, the WWE tends to try to ignore their contributions, and it's clear that the fans don't want that to ever happen with Punk.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I need to watch Backlash 1999 soon, only seen the main event, which is excellent. Always wanted to watch Taker/Shamrock to make my own judgement. 

Onto the 01/25/2001 episode of SD, think this has a nice little Angle/Kane match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2008 Taker Vs 1999 Shamrock in an MMA style match would have probably been good. But fuck, the actual 1999 match is dull as shit lol.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

To be fair, 2008 Taker vs. anyone would be good.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I know I went from wanting Triple H to take over ASAP to now... I don't know. The way he handled the Punk situation is horrible, with Punk telling him he'll talk to him the moment he comes back from his honeymoon only to receive termination papers the fucking day of his wedding. I really just don't know how I feel about Triple H anymore. Punk opened up so much.

That being said, I think I'm going to go back on the network and watch the Raw where Punk walked out for the lulz. :lmao Or was it the week after that the Punk chants really started taking over?


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

funnyfaces1 said:


> No. It was on a RAW in Chicago.


*The best/worst part of that is that nobody remembers that spot and it was what? just over a year ago now.

As far as main eventing Mania goes he sounded worryingly obsessed with it like it had become his only goal in life until he got married. The only year he had anything resembling a claim was 29. Before 28 he was nowhere near hot enough. If he thinks he had any claim to main eventing over Rock at 28 then he's an idiot. 29 was where he had earned it. It was kinda shitty to ask him to turn heel and work that long as Champion only to pull the rug from under him when it really mattered to be Champion. Rock didn't NEED to face Cena and Cena didn't NEED to beat him. Punk beating Rock at 29 in the main event for the title was ideal. If he was going in as Champion then it really had to be vs Rock or nothing. Punk/Cena would have worked as the main event but then what for Taker and Rock? Brock/Taker and HHH/Rock works I guess and it's not like the big 3 matches they did had hot builds going in you wouldn't want to lose. With Punk/Rock you can do Cena/Taker too which I'm actually borderline bitter about never getting. Granted there's a case for Cena/Taker going on last over Punk/Rock but you'd give it to Punk just to shut his agenda up. 30 he had no business main eventing after Summerslam. Sure he could have faced Bryan at 30 for the title but then you're back booking way too far. 30 obviously needed to be Punk getting his win back over Brock which again leaves Taker free for Cena. See how easy it is to change plans to get what you wanted . Still amazes me that Bryan went from probably facing Kane at 30 to what happened.

As far as putting part time guys over, none of them were an issue on their own. Rock taking the title from him was what it was but it was fine. Taker obviously was and Brock had to win that first match. The issue probably comes when you factor in the short space of time they all came in and how Punk never got a win back over any of them. He didn't need to lose to Rock again and he absolutely should have gone over Brock in a rematch. Couple that with the other opponents they gave him in 2013 and it's clear to see where the frustration builds. It was favour owed after favour owed and Punk spending an entire year putting part time guys over and not even approaching middle ground. 

With Hunter you have to remember he has a giant ego and probably looks at everything as "how can this make me look good". Which is fine until it comes at the expense of others. Hunter seemingly not taking the same drugs tests he makes others take is the best case of one rule for him and one for the rest and Hunter just looking out for himself. It's easy to see why him and Punk never liked each other. Totally different philosophies on pro wrestling that were bound to clash. The one thing I will say in favour of Hunter's side is that it's clear why he wouldn't want Punk as THE guy. Hunter knows he's getting more power and he's looking forward and thinking of the roster he wants to manage. He wants it to be a roster full of guys who owe their careers to him (or think they do). Punk didn't fall into that and was a problem. Now he's positioned himself as some God in NXT (it's not a coincidence how much he publicly associates himself with NXT) to create a link to every single one of WWE's next group of stars. Oh that Sami Zayn guy? Yeah I brought him up and made him what he is in NXT. No you fucking didn't but he can say that with enough stroke for people to believe it. He's already basically taking credit for a developmental system which isn't even some new original concept he masterminded. I'm sure he's well intentioned to a certain point but in simple terms everything he does is designed to benefit himself in some way. Nothing to come from Punk's podcast is new if you follow the business with a smart mind. There's confirmations and there's a wider exposure of these issues but nothing is really new (ok maybe Rusev being shy is). *


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Punk could have easily main evented 28 if Rock wasn't around, at least. That 2011 thing was an explosion. And if they weren't idiots with how they handled it (Punk walks out, Rey wins title, Cena's re-hired, Cena wins title same night, Punk comes back, Del Rio wins title, all becomes about HHH.....motherfucker it's actually worse than remembered), Punk would have looked like your obvious Mania main event. Trip and Vince'd probably spite him and make the HIAC the main event, though.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rusev's face makes him look like a teddy bear, so it wouldn't shock me that he's a shy guy. Then again, Meng sometimes makes that same teddy bear face so looks can be very deceiving.

Smackdown had more storyline progression than RAW. ***** for both Ryback/Rollins and the super fun US Title battle royal. Harper/Ziggler was really fun. It seems kinda strange to see Ziggler back in the IC title scene after that heroic performance, but it really does make that title look more important than the WWE title at this point. Granted that's not much of a statement considering that Brock has now retracted his scheduled December 8 date. Not a bad show once again from the blue guys.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

"Austin 3:16 huh, paragraph 3:16 says you can't touch me"

Triple H after a pedigree on Austin during the contract signing on Raw. Always loved the build to NWO.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That contract signing was epic. The whole "physical contact = suspension" and HHH faking signing so he can blast Austin in the face and THEN sign with no repercussions was fantastic. And then of course Austin had to find a way to get back at HHH without being suspended so... STUNNER TO STEPH~!

Shame the actual match between them is a bit of a mess .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm looking forward to getting to NWO, i'm still a big fan of the 3SOH match, not so much the first fall though tbh, the whole card looks pretty good to me.

This Raw also featured Taker/Haku and a four way to determine the No.1 contender for the WWF title. I did wonder how the Rock got 'his shot'.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Taker/Haku was their match I uploaded a while back I think? If so, wasn't really anything worth seeing beyond UNDERTAKER VS MENG .

Went WAY down on NWO 01 when I rambled on it. No longer a GOATC PPV, but still a handful of solid, mostly fun matches. Highest rating was ***1/4, and that was actually for the 2/3 falls match lol.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The build up to Rock/Angle was horrible. Made Angle look like a jobber.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> Taker/Haku was their match I uploaded a while back I think? If so, wasn't really anything worth seeing beyond UNDERTAKER VS MENG .
> 
> Went WAY down on NWO 01 when I rambled on it. No longer a GOATC PPV, but still a handful of solid, mostly fun matches. Highest rating was ***1/4, and that was actually for the 2/3 falls match lol.



Just watched the 2/3 falls bout last week when I was in a mood for 2001 Austin, true the first fall could have been a lot better but man the Street Fight was EPIC and the cage was pretty rockin too. If they had just had the Street Fight and made it a 20 minute match, we could have seen an all timer. As it is, I still love that match and gave it ****1/4 on last watch. So much goodness overshadows the sloppy start, at least for me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I have problems with all 3 falls in the match . There is still lots of good there, hence me still considering it the MOTN, but certainly should have been better considering it was AUSTIN in 2001, and also HHH pre-quad injury.

Angle/Rock from NWO 01 is totally :lmao. What a fucking shitty, wank main event .

Hoping to get back to those PPV Rambles this week! Which reminds me, haven't updated my sig yet, but I've got SummerSlam 05 PPV Ramble on there, On Night Stand 2005 PPV Ramble, as well as Raw in 5 Gifs for this week's Raw, and my 2004 PPV End of Year Thoughts post too. Had a bunch of problems with life, the internet and wordpress over the last week that certain things weren't published until yesterday . So I decided last night to start scheduling the weekly rambles since I have like, 23 weeks worth of em . They are all set to auto post at 9:30am GMT every Sunday, so even if I forget they'll be posted! Wooo!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> I have problems with all 3 falls in the match . There is still lots of good there, hence me still considering it the MOTN, but certainly should have been better considering it was AUSTIN in 2001, and also HHH pre-quad injury.
> 
> Angle/Rock from NWO 01 is totally :lmao. What a fucking shitty, wank main event .
> 
> Hoping to get back to those PPV Rambles this week! Which reminds me, haven't updated my sig yet, but I've got SummerSlam 05 PPV Ramble on there, On Night Stand 2005 PPV Ramble, as well as Raw in 5 Gifs for this week's Raw, and my 2004 PPV End of Year Thoughts post too. Had a bunch of problems with life, the internet and wordpress over the last week that certain things weren't published until yesterday . So I decided last night to start scheduling the weekly rambles since I have like, 23 weeks worth of em . They are all set to auto post at 9:30am GMT every Sunday, so even if I forget they'll be posted! Wooo!



Absolutely 100% Agee with you on the Rock/Angle main event. I watched it for the first time since it aired a few months ago after seeing it get heaps of praise in the Classic section. The whole match was just one big "The fuck?" Moment after another. Big Show coming out :lmao. Nothing about that match was good, it got ** from me and could have been lower if it wasn't for the few enjoyable moments. They weren't good wrestling moments, mind you, just things that were entertaining at the time.

The 4-way from that event is pretty rocking though. Eddie/Jericho/Benoit/Waltman? That's a hell of a Cruiserweight line up.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Love that fatal four way match. As fun as that Summerslam 2003 one. Or the two fatal four ways at the end of 2011 that all of you should watch. Or that ECW one involving Miz, Morrison, Finlay, and Henry.

Keep your eyes out in the 3/12/01 RAW, zep. There's a really good match between Benoit and Eddie that felt like nothing from the Attitude Era. The crowd was astounded by everything they did. Also take note of how good Jericho becomes as the year goes on. Definition of a workhorse. I think I actually liked his PPV matches in 2001 more than Austin.


----------



## NewJack's Shank (Jan 29, 2012)

Random but can someone throw me some SMW matches to watch, trying to get into it and haven't seen alot


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Or the two fatal four ways at the end of 2011 that all of you should watch.


Which are these? The one in January is maybe the best fourway ever.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

CM Punk.

Is the man.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Meh, I always found Austin/Trips 3SOH overrated. Then again, who am I to talk? I liked Trips/Nash HIAC and that epic HIAC match Trips and Shawn had the following year.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finally watched the Flair vs Steamboat 2 out of 3 falls match on the Network a few hours ago. I don't know how to rate it because objectively, it's an absolute classic and I can't really find a fault with anything done, but then again, this type of match is not my cup of tea due to the heavy mat/headlock based style so it's not one I'll go out of my way to see for a long time at least. I will say that with this match taking place in 89, Bret and HBK should be ashamed of that sorry excuse for a "wrestling clinic" they put on at WM12. Even during headlocks, there's always something going on here. And the action being kept at a steady pace as they go along... much props!

Also watched the Punk vs Henry match from Raw after WM28 and it was a good match although the finish was pretty weak. I thought I remembered Punk getting counted out after a WSM on the floor but it turns out he lost by simply being tossed over the top rope. Still a good performance by both, specially MIZARK as the monster.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Meh, I always found Austin/Trips 3SOH overrated. Then again, who am I to talk? I liked Trips/Nash HIAC and that epic HIAC match Trips and Shawn had the following year.


There are people here who think Andre vs. Kamala is not boring as shit, so your opinions aren't that out of line. I think the general consensus here is that Austin/Trips 3SOH is a bit overrated. Nobody I know here has it as a MOTYC, which is completely different from folks outside of this safe zone. Count me in on the guys that like HHH/Nash. I have no clue why I like their Ladder and HIAC matches considering that all of their brawls together were contenders for worst brawls in WWE. Seriously, there's one in 2003 that they had in Canada that was so bad that the crowd hijacked it.

Some SMW:

Heavenly Bodies vs The Thrillseekers (8/05/94)
Dirty White Boy vs. Jake Roberts (6/18/94)
Rock & Roll Express vs Al Snow & Unabomb (5/15/95)
Cactus Jack vs. Chris Candido (12/26/94)
Tracy Smothers vs. Chris Candido (4/1/94)
Rock N Roll Express vs. Heavenly Bodies (4/1/94)
Cactus Jack & Tracy Smothers vs Chris Candido & Boo Bradley (12/25/94)
Rock & Roll Express, Bob, Scott & Steve Armstrong vs Heavenly Bodies, Bruise Brothers & Jim Cornette (8/14/93)
Heavenly Bodies vs The Thugz (8/4/95)
Al Snow vs Marty Jannetty (8/4/95)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jericho in that Thrillseekers match, oh my.


----------



## Mordecay (Aug 15, 2014)

*WWE Best PPV matches of 2014 DVD WTF??*

This is a weird list, what would you add and what would you cut out from this?

DISC 1 

Daniel Bryan vs. Bray Wyatt
Royal Rumble • January 26, 2014

Six-Man Tag Team Match
The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family Elimination Chamber • February 23, 2014

Elimination Chamber Match for the WWE World Heavyweight Championship 
Randy Orton vs. John Cena vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus vs. Cesaro vs. Christian 
Elimination Chamber • February 23, 2014 

Winner Earns a Spot in the WWE World Heavyweight Championship Match 
Triple H vs. Daniel Bryan WrestleMania XXX • April 6, 2014 

WWE World Heavyweight Championship Match 
Randy Orton vs. Batista vs. Daniel Bryan WrestleMania XXX • April 6, 2014 

DISC 2 

WeeLC Match 
El Torito vs. Hornswoggle 
Extreme Rules (Pre-Show) • May 4, 2014 

Intercontinental Championship Match 
Big E vs. Bad News Barrett Extreme Rules • May 4, 2014 

Six-Man Tag Team Match 
Evolution vs. The Shield Extreme Rules • May 4, 2014 

United States Championship Match 
Sheamus vs. Cesaro Payback • June 1, 2014 

Last Man Standing Match 
John Cena vs. Bray Wyatt Payback • June 1, 2014 

Money in the Bank Ladder Match 
Seth Rollins vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Jack Swagger vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Kofi Kingston vs. Dean Ambrose Money in the Bank • June 29, 2014 

2 out of 3 Falls Match for the WWE Tag Team Titles 
The Usos vs. Erick Rowan & Luke Harper Battleground • July 20, 2014 

Battle Royal for the Vacant WWE Intercontinental Championship Battleground • July 20, 2014 

DISC 3 

WWE Divas Championship Match 
AJ Lee vs. Paige SummerSlam • August 17, 2014 

Flag Match 
Rusev vs. Jack Swagger SummerSlam • August 17, 2014 

Lumberjack Match 
Dean Ambrose vs. Seth Rollins SummerSlam • August 17, 2014 

WWE World Tag Team Championship Match 
The Usos vs. Goldust & Stardust Night of Champions • September 21, 2014 

Randy Orton vs. Chris Jericho Night of Champions • September 21, 2014 

WWE World Heavyweight Championship Match Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena Night of Champions • September 21, 2014 

2-out-of-3 Falls Match for the Intercontinental Championship 

Dolph Ziggler vs. Cesaro Hell in a Cell • October 26, 2014 

Hell in a Cell Match Winner Earns a Future WWE World Heavyweight Title Match 
John Cena vs. Randy Orton Hell in a Cell • October 26, 2014


----------



## Tardbasher12 (Jul 1, 2013)

*Re: WWE Best PPV matches of 2014 DVD WTF??*



> WeeLC Match
> El Torito vs. Hornswoggle
> Extreme Rules (Pre-Show) • May 4, 2014





> WWE Divas Championship Match
> AJ Lee vs. Paige SummerSlam • August 17, 2014





> Hell in a Cell Match Winner Earns a Future WWE World Heavyweight Title Match
> John Cena vs. Randy Orton Hell in a Cell • October 26, 2014





> Intercontinental Championship Match
> Big E vs. Bad News Barrett Extreme Rules • May 4, 2014


This company needs to die in a fire.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

*Re: WWE Best PPV matches of 2014 DVD WTF??*

Would swap Kane-Bryan for Barrett-Big E and Rollins-Ambrose for Orton-Cena but other than that it's about right.


----------



## TripleG (Dec 8, 2004)

*Re: WWE Best PPV matches of 2014 DVD WTF??*

Lets see....

DISC 1 

Daniel Bryan vs. Bray Wyatt
Royal Rumble • January 26, 2014
*Yes*

Six-Man Tag Team Match
The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family Elimination Chamber • February 23, 2014
*Yes*

Elimination Chamber Match for the WWE World Heavyweight Championship 
Randy Orton vs. John Cena vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus vs. Cesaro vs. Christian 
Elimination Chamber • February 23, 2014 
*Eh. I guess. If you have to fill the last spot or two. *

Winner Earns a Spot in the WWE World Heavyweight Championship Match 
Triple H vs. Daniel Bryan WrestleMania XXX • April 6, 2014 
*Yes*

WWE World Heavyweight Championship Match 
Randy Orton vs. Batista vs. Daniel Bryan WrestleMania XXX • April 6, 2014 
*Yes*

DISC 2 

WeeLC Match 
El Torito vs. Hornswoggle 
Extreme Rules (Pre-Show) • May 4, 2014 
*Good comedy match, but best of 2014? Seems a bit much. *

Intercontinental Championship Match 
Big E vs. Bad News Barrett Extreme Rules • May 4, 2014 
*What? No.*

Six-Man Tag Team Match 
Evolution vs. The Shield Extreme Rules • May 4, 2014 
*Yes*

United States Championship Match 
Sheamus vs. Cesaro Payback • June 1, 2014 
*Really good udnercard match, but again, Best of 2014? Really?*

Last Man Standing Match 
John Cena vs. Bray Wyatt Payback • June 1, 2014 
*OK fine*

Money in the Bank Ladder Match 
Seth Rollins vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Jack Swagger vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Kofi Kingston vs. Dean Ambrose Money in the Bank • June 29, 2014 
*Yes!*

2 out of 3 Falls Match for the WWE Tag Team Titles 
The Usos vs. Erick Rowan & Luke Harper Battleground • July 20, 2014 
*The last fall was good...right?*

Battle Royal for the Vacant WWE Intercontinental Championship Battleground • July 20, 2014 
*Huh?!?!?*

DISC 3 

WWE Divas Championship Match 
AJ Lee vs. Paige SummerSlam • August 17, 2014 
*Wait, what?!?! *

Flag Match 
Rusev vs. Jack Swagger SummerSlam • August 17, 2014
*Who made this list?!* 

Lumberjack Match 
Dean Ambrose vs. Seth Rollins SummerSlam • August 17, 2014 
*Again, good match. Their match on Raw the next night was much better.*

WWE World Tag Team Championship Match 
The Usos vs. Goldust & Stardust Night of Champions • September 21, 2014 
*In a weird way, I saw this match so many times, that I am not sure how to distinguish one from the other, so I can't tell you off the top of my head which one this is. *

Randy Orton vs. Chris Jericho Night of Champions • September 21, 2014
*No. I wasn't a big fan of this one. * 

WWE World Heavyweight Championship Match Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena Night of Champions • September 21, 2014 
*I liked their Summerslam match better, for obvious reasons, lol.*

2-out-of-3 Falls Match for the Intercontinental Championship 
Dolph Ziggler vs. Cesaro Hell in a Cell • October 26, 2014 
*Never saw it. My network feed cut out while the match was in progress and it came back just in time for me to catch the finish.*

Hell in a Cell Match Winner Earns a Future WWE World Heavyweight Title Match 
John Cena vs. Randy Orton Hell in a Cell • October 26, 2014
*Sure because, you know, greatest rivalry ever, or something.*


I think the problem here is that 21 matches is a REALLY long list when you have 11 PPVs to go through.


----------



## Blade Runner (Jan 24, 2012)

*Re: WWE Best PPV matches of 2014 DVD WTF??*

where's Zayn vs Cesaro from Arrival? doesn't NXT count as the WWE? WeeLC was on the pre show, don't know why they count it as a PPV match.


----------



## I Ship Sixon (Oct 20, 2013)

*Re: WWE Best PPV matches of 2014 DVD WTF??*

No replace Cena vs Lesnar NOC with Summerslam and we have no problem


----------



## Dragonballfan (Jul 19, 2007)

*Re: WWE Best PPV matches of 2014 DVD WTF??*



Ryan193 said:


> Would swap Kane-Bryan for Barrett-Big E and Rollins-Ambrose for Orton-Cena but other than that it's about right.


Yeah the list looks pretty decent actually. Disc one has incredible matches too bravo WWE for that one :clap

They should have added the Survivor Series Elimination Match but I guess they wanted to get the cutoff date before the end of the year huh...



*:edit:* Wish they had also added the Sheamus Cesaro match from NOC as well. But the other one on the list was great too.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

On July 7th of 1990, after failing to win the World Heavyweight Title at the first Clash Of The Champions then getting kicked out of the Horsemen, Sting finally got his chance at redemption by taking on The Nature Boy again at The Great American Bash.

This time, The Steiner Brothers, Mr. Wonderful, The Junkyard Dog, and pre-Giant Gonzales were there to make sure it was a fair fight. It was back and forth action with a hot crowd in Baltimore. Sting on the offense with Flair making the comeback by going after the knee. Unfortunately, Naitch went to the well too many times with The Figure Four and Sting countered with the small package.

And that, my friends, is how Sting became The Man!

- Vic


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Swagger/Rusev was pretty good iirc. Or was it Rusev/Big E?


----------



## skarvika (Jun 2, 2014)

:dahell @ the Best Of 2014 list...


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

What a joke of a list.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Discs one and two are really good.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Big E vs. Barrett sucked. They couldn't put Barrett vs. Ziggler from Raw on there? Or Barrett/Sheamus from Raw during the tournament?

Also, of 3 NOC matches they put on there, Cesaro/Sheamus isn't one of them? fpalm Otherwise, not a bad list.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

List isn't bad at all. Don't really have anything to complain about. Maybe they should've included the NOC match for Sheamus and Cesaro but otherwise, it's not bad. Orton vs Jericho deserved to be included. I rewatched it recently and was surprised by how much I enjoyed it. Also good thing they included the right Evolution/Shield match.

Just realized Raw is on in a couple of minutes. Well, I don't give a fuck, I'd rather just watch the first ever episode of Smackdown (from April, not August).


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> List isn't bad at all. Don't really have anything to complain about. Maybe they should've included the NOC match for Sheamus and Cesaro but otherwise, it's not bad. Orton vs Jericho deserved to be included. I rewatched it recently and was surprised by how much I enjoyed it. Also good thing they included the right Evolution/Shield match.
> 
> Just realized Raw is on in a couple of minutes. Well, I don't give a fuck, I'd rather just watch the first ever episode of Smackdown (from April, not August).



Ditto. For having zero real heat leading into that match, Jericho/Orton did about as well as you could ask of them. It's not a match I'd rush to go rewatch or anything, but I thought it was pretty good, like in the ***1/2 area. Cesaro/Sheamus was def better though. I liked the Orton/Reigns match from Summerslam, too.

P.s. You need to watch that Kobashi/Williams match I pimped. If you don't like it you can give up on all Japanese wrestling for good. It's about as fast paced, back and forth, and high spot heavy as you're going to see in a AJPW heavyweight encounter.


----------



## Phaedra (Aug 15, 2014)

edit, nvm.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Can't believe anyone wouldn't like the WeeLC match. Yes everyone in that match is usually involved in a lot of crap but this the exception and it's amazing. If you didn't like that match you might have a disease that prevents you from having fun.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I liked Barrett/Langston. Fun fun fun. Man I miss that man. Two good IC title reigns in one year. What a rarity.

That first episode of Smackdown was hilarious. The Brood promo :lmao. Killed Gangrel's career.

Agree with the sentiment behind Jericho/Orton. I'm glad I rewatched Sheamus/Cesaro from NoC as I like it a lot more now than before. Still not my favorite match from those two and I even like the Payback match more, but that's not a bad thing at all.

:lol Did Ryback botch that slam on Kane? Looked like he almost broke Kane's neck.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

That Best of 2014 list is WAY better than 60% of the stuff the company puts on their other DVDs. Very little to complain about. They did a pretty nice job considering their usual fuck-uppery.

The fuck is this tag team turmoil??? Kofi & Big E just beat the Dust Bros in like 3 minutes! Now Cesaro & Tyson Kidd are a team??? Desperate.

Let's hope to god Rollins wins at TLC and Cena loses his #1 Contender's spot. That should be Orton's (as a face).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That Brood promo was laughable and killed their mystique. Edge attempting to play a character with that tone in his voice? :lol

Can't believe they did this "Austin's partner attacks the heels early and then Austin's music hits when heels get the upper hand" AGAIN.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Let's hope to god Rollins wins at TLC and Cena loses his #1 Contender's spot. That should be Orton's (as a face).


If only. 

I'm sure that smiling cocksucker is just gonna win with AN AA THROUGH THE TABLE!


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

It's nitcpicking. Some of those matches belong nowhere near the listing of the top matches of 2014. Big E vs Barrett, that shitty IC Title Battle Royal, AJ vs Paige (kek) & Cena vs Orton should not be on there. I would also do away with Orton vs Jericho, Lesnar vs Cena @ NOC & Rusev vs Swagger. There are quite a few great matches on Raw that should replace them (one of the couple great Sheamus vs Barrett matches, Ziggler vs Barrett, Ziggler vs Cesaro vs Kidd, Ambrose vs Rollins on Raw, Lesnar vs Cena @ SummerSlam, Bryan vs Kane @ Extreme Rules & Sheamus vs Cesaro @ NOC). Also, if this is the final version of the set, it's a shame it won't include the SVS 5-on-5 which was definitely great, at least in terms of the second half of it. 

And if it's going to be Ziggler vs Harper @ TLC then that may end up being a MOTYC, as well as Cena vs Rollins if they go through with that. (not really watching Raw rn)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That set was only for PPV matches right? And I think you should rewatch Swagger/Rusev. Awesome match where everything done was perfect. Rusev with the best performance of the night, and it was on a night where Lesnar did something historic. The IC battle royal was not that bad either, and the Miz/Ziggler interaction was done well. AJ/Paige was the best divas match on PPV this year and they need one for each set. Not a bad match.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

I will rewatch Swagger/Rusev. As for the IC Title Battle Royal, it was forgettable a.f. and the ending was obvious well before the Sheamus/Ziggler interaction even occurred. Bleh match. AJ/Paige was decent for their series' standard but that's it. I probably preferred the Divas Triple Threat @ NOC though I can't say for sure given how I don't really pay much attention to the division. 

And U do suppose that is the final version of the set.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The set was for PPV matches only. A WWE DVD set will never be as good as it actually could be. Never. They got all the essentials (except maybe Cena/Lesnar from Summerslam) so that's really all that matters. They usually fuck that up anyway (I.e. the listing for 2012). The set is exclusive to the U.K. by the way. 

RAW has been another huge waste of time thus far while the Dolphins are blowing their playoff chances at the moment.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

That's a good match list by WWE standards. I don't remember Barrett/Langston and that's the only match that really stands out as being out of place. Swagger/Rusev was a hot program and a good match so no problem with that being on there. Never saw Cena/Orton HiaC and I'm sure it shouldn't have been included but no one should be surprised that they're trying to shove that rivalry down our throats. They've been doing that for years. Can't really remember AJ/Paige and I would've preferred Steph/Brie or even Nikki/Brie but who cares about the divas anyway. Not a fan of Cena/Wyatt or Jericho/Orton but other people like them so whatever. WWE likes to promote matches like WeeLC so that's fine. No glaring omissions in terms of the absolute best PPV matches making the cut (HHH/Bryan, Shield/Wyatts and Bryan/Wyatt). Cena/Lesnar from SummerSlam would've been a better choice than Night of Champions but that's a minor complaint.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Austin is throwing jabs left and right. Vince McMahon is looking like a fool. I can't believe the man did not realize that the AFTRA doesn't exist anymore. Vince also blatantly lied about Cesaro and went on a rant about millennials.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Well, I think this may be the first low guarded Vince mcmahon interview on the business we have gotten that hasn't been riddled in controversy. Factor in Steve Austin and this is a small piece of documented history in what could be volumes of accounts from the man with a direct or indirect link to the vast majority of all major events last 30 years. I am enjoying this throughly. This is far more open than I expected btw.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I don't suppose the podcast being on the network means it had a video to it? I understand the definition, but Steve's got a terribly grating voice to listen to without a visual distraction to lessen the brunt.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

11 Pipers Piping said:


> I don't suppose the podcast being on the network means it had a video to it? I understand the definition, but Steve's got a terribly grating voice to listen to without a visual distraction to lessen the brunt.


http://watchwrestling.ch/watch-wwe-stone-cold-podcast-vince-mcmahon-12114/


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

> That's a good match list by WWE standards. I don't remember Barrett/Langston and that's the only match that really stands out as being out of place.


It was pretty good. Crowd was hot for Barrett.

- Vic


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Barrett/Langston was a TV match on PPV. 8 minutes of just... bleh. It was just there. It didn't help that the crowd didn't care one bit about Big E or his character, and it was like that way every time once Ziggler turned face last year and that pairing was split.


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

*WWF WRESTLEMANIA 1*

Tito Santana vs The Executioner *1/4

King Kong Bundy vs Special Delivery Jones N/R

Matt Borne vs Ricky Steamboat 3/4*

David Sammartino vs Brutus Beefcake **

*WWF Intercontinental Heavyweight Championship*
Greg Valentine (c) vs The Junkyard Dog *

*WWF World Tag Team Championship*
The U.S Express (Mike Rotundo & Barry Windham) (c) vs Nikolai Volkoff & The Iron Sheik *3/4

$15,000 Body Slam Challenge
Big John Studd vs Andre The Giant 1/2*

*WWF Women's Championship*
Wendi Richter (c) vs Leilani Kai **

Muhammed Ali & Pat Petterson as Special Guest Referees
Hulk Hogan & Mr. T vs Roddy Piper & Paul Orndorff 3/4*

Rating: 4.0


*WWF The Wrestling Classic 1985*

Adrian Adonis vs Corporal Kirchner 1/2*

Nikolai Volkoff vs Dynamite Kid N/R

Randy Savage vs Ivan Putski 3/4*

Ricky Steamboat vs Davey Boy Smith 1/2*

Junkyard Dog vs The Iron Sheik 1/4*

Moondog Spot vs Terry Funk DUD

Tito Santana vs The Magnificent Muraco 1/2*

Cowboy Bob Orton vs Paul Orndorff *

Adrian Adonis vs Dynamite Kid *

Randy Savage vs Ricky Steamboat *1/4

Junkyard Dog vs Moondog Spot DUD

Tito Santana vs Paul Orndorff *3/4

*WWF World Heavyweight Championship*
Hulk Hogan (c) vs Rowdy Roddy Piper *1/2

Dynamite Kid vs Randy Savage *1/2

Randy Savage vs Junkyard Dog *1/2

Overall Rating: 3.25


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Meltzer:



> *The WWE, when they came through Memphis the last time, interviewed Lance Russell, Jerry Jarrett and Bill Dundee for a 2015 Jerry Lawler DVD.* Also this past week, WMC-TV, which aired wrestling from the mid-70s until the close of the territory, and then through several revivals, did a four-part series of Russell and Dave Brown together looking at old tapes. It was awesome, particularly the end of segment four, because you could really see the friendship between the two (who have been very good friends for about 50 years) and there was a moment of realization that this could be the last time they would work together in public.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

ZEROVampire said:


> *WWF WRESTLEMANIA 1*
> 
> Tito Santana vs The Executioner *1/4
> 
> ...


I feel your pain. But I have to admit that the Terry Funk vs. Moondog Spot match is one of the funniest things ever.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Speaking of those awful old PPVs, did anyone else think that the Bulldogs vs. Dream Team match in Wrestlemania 2 wasn't that special? It's considered to be the first Wrestlemania "classic", but it's no different from a match we see on Superstars nowadays.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Classic is a stretch, but I think you're over-selling the quality of Superstars. Davey Richards Sr was a bit hokey in his timing of setting up a couple spots, but everything else came across rather fluid and they transitioned between control nicely. That said, I ain't buying Davey's finisher (running powerslam) following the hot tag when they've hit a few earlier in the match for naught (one coming off the top rope, to boot). Finish spot was a cool desperation moment for The Bulldogs, and that spill to the floor Billington takes is disgusting to witness. They could have milked the chaos that lead to that desperation move better but it did its purpose.

If we're to make comparisons to TV match quality, though, I'd take early 90s WCW tags over this with pleasure.


EDIT: speaking of Valentine, does anyone have Valentine/Backlund from February 1979? It's the one hour draw. A request that segues into another request asking you guys to check out (possibly be a part of) the pre-80s project!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Valentine's Gonzo Bomb is the best highlight of the tag. I like the match (iirc & it should stand but knows); although it never was the best thing on the event. Liked Funks vs JYD & Santana more.

Someone find the Backlund vs Valentine 60 minute match. I'd like to check it out too. Bobby B is the best & it can feed into my recent stretch of bringing up how much I dig Valentine. Lets get that cooking.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Valentine/Backlund might straight-up be in my top ten WWE matches of all time. I'd upload it if my youtube channel hadn't gone to hell.


My Network subscription is gone because I supposedly forgot to update Paypal with my most recent debit card, so I might give a crack at that pre-80s thing instead of Raw 93.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My thoughts on those WM 2 Tags:

Match 8 - The British Bulldogs Vs Brutus Beefcake & Greg Valentine - Tag belts up for grabs. And another fucking Brutus match. It's a good tag team match. A couple of good moments/spots or whatever, but aside from that it's a basic standard tag match. Not saying that's a bad thing of course, but I always heard suck great thing about this match that I'm constantly disappointed when I watch it and don't "get it" like other people seem to do. Maybe they have lower standards because of how terrible everything else is before this match? ***.

Match 11 - Tito Santana & Junkyard Dog Vs Terry & Hoss Funk - Why the FUCK did they name Dory "Hoss"? Ah well, at least we have one of the legitimate greatest of all time wrestlers on a WrestleMania show. TERRY FUCKING FUNK. Is he STILL working matches now btw? Fun early going to this match, because Terry is stooging around the ring like only Terry can. Hell, everything good about this match is from Terry. His stooging early on, his offence on control, comedy spots, getting slammed on/through a table and some chairs. Everything was TERRY. Replace him with anyone else and this match would have been the dullest shit ever. But Terry was there so I enjoyed it a little. **.


I'd upload Backlund/Valentine but being an hour long, the filesize would be huge and with my god awful upload speed it would take about a week .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thx Cal for sorting Backlund/Valentine. Think I have it myself but I still can't use my CPU, so.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I think you may have miss-read my post .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

So I did lol.  I may try, but it won't be for a while tbh.

I purchased the Death of WCW 10th anniversary edition book this week, good read so far.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> So I did lol.  I may try, but it won't be for a while tbh.
> 
> I purchased the Death of WCW 10th anniversary edition book this week, good read so far.



Dude reading that book will both make you laugh and make your brain hurt. Atleast it did for me. How badly that company mismanaged their success is hilarious, how many of the EXACT SAME THINGS WWE is currently doing that WCW did will make your brain hurt. Like seriously, someone needs to hand that book to Vince on one of his flights on his private jet and tell him to just read the fucking thing. He might learn a thing or two.

The real problem is, no one at WWE thinks there is a problem. That's the heart of the whole issue, that's what killed WCW and it's ruining WWE. Unless you accept that what you're puttin on TV is shit, your booking is shit, your commentary is shit, and the whole creative process is shit, then you won't get anywhere.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Yeah I read that book a few years ago and it's really unsettling when you think about how similar a lot of things are. 

You hear that guys were being told by 5 different people what they were supposed to be doing and that shows were getting changed last minute all the time. And then you read about how Vince will just tear the script on Monday afternoon and things are always changing all the time. And then I hear Punk on the Art of Wrestling talk about about 3 guys would tell him to do things differently and he has to figure out which person he should listen to every time.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm about half way through the book atm, just got done reading up until the end of 1998 and the Warrior debacle, and the decline of Nitro compared to Raw. I didn't read the original release, but this anniversary edition I think includes a few new things, plus another chapter on TNA.

Like I said, good read and interesting to learn a few things, inner workings by Hogan, booking fiasco's. Man some of this shit is damn frustrating.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Just imagine how Dean Malenko and Arn Anderson feel about this, considering that they were first-hand witnesses of that mess.

I don't think there's a Hoss Funk match I truly enjoyed. Like I enjoyed the Terry/Dory tag team, but every time I watch a Dory Funk singles match, I feel like I'm forcing myself to like it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Did Flair ever regret being a part of bringing Hogan in at all? I'm just passed the part where the real life Bischoff/Flair thing is going on.

Flair being kept off tv, despite being the most over guy out there, just because Hogan and co were threatened. (This practice seems common even now).

Also had to note an interesting tidbit from the book;

Triple H did a radio interview at the time (about 1998) about the possibility of Flair joining WWF again, and he apparently said that he was too old and should retire lol. (Mind you, thst comment may have been a work of some kind). Couple of years later and Flair is back and Triple H loves him and he is his idol.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> Did Flair ever regret being a part of bringing Hogan in at all? I'm just passed the part where the real life Bischoff/Flair thing is going on.
> 
> Flair being kept off tv, despite being the most over guy out there, just because Hogan and co were threatened. (This practice seems common even now).
> 
> ...



To be fair, there was a war going on and Flair was considered the enemy, you can't expect Hunter to put Flair over. And also, they feuded in WWE over Hunter saying Flair was too old and should just retire :lmao. Although it's funny because Hunter gave Flair his finest match since like 1989, but that match was like 75% Flair being absolutely amazing and only 25% Hunter, as good as Hunter was Flair was still able to totally outshine him in a singles match at like 55+ years old. That's why Flair is Flair.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Death of WCW book is the best valid form of laughter in regards to wrestling. So much in it makes your head spin to know an actual, once successful wrestling company had ALL of that going on backstage. Or on camera in regards to something such as Regal vs Goldberg & yes, Fingerpoke o' Doom.

I remember a picture of Scott Steiner in the book w/a small quip at the bottom stating (paraphrasing): _"Scott Steiner, a talented worker in a tag team rose to main event status by bullying staff in order to give him what he wanted."_

lolz


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Buff Bagwell's gimmick where he didn't agree with the ending of matches :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Can't say I've watched much of Al Snow outside of some hardcore stuff, or the Benoit ECW match.

But I was watching Raw from 02/05/2001 and saw him hit two Moonsaults in a match with Benoit lol. Just slightly surprised me.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> Can't say I've watched much of Al Snow outside of some hardcore stuff, or the Benoit ECW match.
> 
> But I was watching Raw from 02/05/2001 and saw him hit two Moonsaults in a match with Benoit lol. Just slightly surprised me.


Lmao Snow is actually a ton of fun to watch, atleast the stuff I've seen which is mainly from his AE/Hardcore division run. He wrestled those hardcore matches smartly for the most part and they were almost always worth a watch.

BTW congrats on becoming a mod bud! You've been the MVP of this thread for as long as I've been here, I say it's way over due. Hope they didn't stick you in the TNA section or something . I felt bad for Hayley when he got stuck there.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Lmao Snow is actually a ton of fun to watch, atleast the stuff I've seen which is mainly from his AE/Hardcore division run. He wrestled those hardcore matches smartly for the most part and they were almost always worth a watch.
> 
> BTW congrats on becoming a mod bud! You've been the MVP of this thread for as long as I've been here, I say it's way over due. Hope they didn't stick you in the TNA section or something . I felt bad for Hayley when he got stuck there.


 Im part of the cursed WWE Section for now. Thanks mate. Not as many upload from me lately i know, but my CPU is still out of action, so its difficult atm. 

WWF 2001 has been fun so far, with Taker/Kane just getting back together, and the HHH/Austin buildup. Nearly reached NWO, which im looking forward to watching, and seeing if the 3SOH match holds up to my high regard still.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Almost done my next PPV Ramble. Just picked the show out at random and started watching it, only knowing ONE of the matches on the show. Didn't expect the match that I'm up to now. *shudders*

Might have this done tonight. MIGHT. We'll see.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Unforgiven 2007*

"Don't be afraid. BE TERRIFIED."

Of the main event?


*CM Punk Vs Elijah Burke - ECW Championship Match*

Lol, big video package showcasing the match between Punk and Morrison where Punk finally wins the ECW title is shown. Aaaand then we move to the ring where Burke has been given a jobber entrance and is seemingly randomly getting a title shot :lmao.

Not long before their "awesome" chemistry shines through as they manage to botch an Irish Whip spot .

FUCK ME. Looked like Punk legit connected with the running knee there. Burke just kinda falls down too lol.










Well, seems Burke gets his own back by forcing Punk to take a pretty sick looking bump on the floor...










So wow, this match was waaaaay better than I was expecting. Burke was fine playing a cocky heel working over the back of Punk to set up to his finisher, and Punk was his usual good self. Enjoyed how Burke went from being cocky and confident to becoming more and more frustrated at not being able to finish Punk off, which in the end causes him to get caught in a roll up and beaten.

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*Matt Hardy & MVP Vs Deuce & Domino - WWE Tag Team Championship Match*

Am I the only one that really enjoyed the feud between Hardy and MVP, where instead of wrestling each other they did those competitions and then ended up teaming together to win the tag belts lol?

Whole match here really is about MVP and Matt, with D&D just being there to get their standard rematch clause. MVP and Matt argue over who is gonna start, with Matt telling MVP that HE will start... until MVP blind tags himself in instead .

From there it's a good old "your turn, my turn" display as both guys try to out-do the other by absolutely dominating the former tag champs lol.

Matt ends up being FIP because, you know, he's Matt freakin' Hardy and he's awesome at being a FIP. MVP gets frustrated on the apron and almost walks out on Matt. Matt then starts to make a comeback and MVP realises that hey, maybe they could actually win now, and he comes back .

End sees Matt taking a page out of MVP's book by blind tagging himself in, knocking MVP out of the ring and getting the win, just like MVP did when they won the titles in the first place!

Fun match, but like I said, D&D were total after thoughts here.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*Triple H Vs Carlito - No DQ For Carlito Only*

:lmao HHH, recently returning at SS... is the third match on a C PPV against Carlito :lmao. Booker T must have used some black magic to get his own back for being buried the month before . AND NO, I DIDN'T SAY BLACK MAGIC BECAUSE BOOKER T IS BLACK. I'm not a racist. I may be a liar, a pig, an idiot, a racist, but I am NOT a porn star.

So Carlito can't be DQ'd or anything, but HHH can. So... HHH basically wrestles like a heel and cheats behind the referee's back to make things "even" lol.

Aaaand then Carlito fucking blasts HHH right in the FACE with the ring bell and I :mark: a little lol. More people should hit HHH in the face with weapons.

Stuff happens. HHH low blows Carlito behind the referee's back and hits a Pedigree to win.

The lesson here? Not even with an advantage in the match can Carlito come close to beating HHH. LOL.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Maria interviews Batista. Batista stares at her tits.


*Beth Phoenix Vs Candice Michelle - WWE Women's Championship Match*

:lmao Candice was champion?

Skip.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


Khali breaks some fruit.


*The Great Khali Vs Rey Mysterio Vs Batista - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

Rey and Batista try to double team Khali until Rey rolls up Batista from behind. YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO BE MY FRIEND~!

Most of this match is Cole and JBL trying to explain how big and strong Khali is. IT'S LIKE RUNNING INTO A BRICK WALL. IT'S LIKE BEING HIT WITH A BRICK. Basically Khali is a giant brick, apparently.

This match isn't actually bad. Like, at all. Khali doesn't do much other than club, kick and clothesline, but he's mostly doing it to Rey who is a bumping/selling GOD, so it all looks spectacular.

Rey manages to take out Khlai, but Batista prevents him from winning, and lands a Batista Bomb, dropping Rey onto Khali, then shoves Rey out of the ring so he can Spinebuster Khali and pin him to win the title!

Definitely shocked at this.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Paul London & Bryan Kendrick Vs Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch - World Tag Team Championship Match*

Hmmm, this could be pretty darn awesome! Though nobody talks about it... so either it's a very well hidden gem or it's not worth talking about.

Lol, Murdoch is awesome on the apron early on while Cade is in the ring. He's constantly shouting encouragement to his partner and generally just being a character on the apron which is awesome to see.

Nothing big and fancy here, just a good old fashioned TAG TEAM match. Early babyface shine period, then the heels dominate and do a pretty great job of keeping Kendrick from making the tat, and then when the hot tag finally comes the fans are all over it, and thankfully it ISN'T just a "hot tag + finishing stretch" type of match!

In the end, it's those Southern Old School heels that retain their belts .

Good match, needs to be talked about more for sure!!!

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


*John Cena Vs Randy Orton - WWE Championship Match*

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

I honestly thought the title match was something different on this show .

No wonder Cena is like Superman, his dad got punted in the head during the build up to this match and he's sitting at ringside for the match as if nothing happened. THE PUNK TOOK OUT HBK FOR HALF THE YEAR AND RETIRED RVD FOR A FEW YEARS. :lmao

:lmao Cena is fighting for retribution after Orton beat up his dad, and the fans are BOOING THE SHIT OUT OF HIM :lmao. 

So Cena is pissed. And aside from his cheesy "shaking with anger" pose, he does a pretty good job at just running into Orton and beating the ever loving FUCK out of Randy every chance he gets. Then we have Orton trying to slow the pace down and prevent Cena from punching him in the face. Odd, so far I'm... enjoying this match? Huh. This might end up being one of their best matches at this rate :lmao.

HEADLOCK~! But it's still at a time when Orton applies it really well, so yey! They work a pretty darn great spot with it during the match, with Orton making it look like the most deadly hold ever, Cena selling it well, then slowly fighting out of it and really having to put some fucking effort into escaping. And when he escapes? BEATS THE FUCK OUT OF ORTON.

So much so that THE REFEREE DQ'S CENA. Well damn. That's... awesome. No, seriously, that's AWESOME. This match was about Cena wanting to utterly destroy Orton following the PUNT to his dad, and Cena wrestled the entire match like that and in the end Cena didn't give a fuck about BEATING Orton, he just wanted to BEAT ORTON UP.

Obviously the match was mainly here to set up to a rematch at No Mercy, which never happens as Cena gets injured, but it does a fantastic job of heating up the feud some more.

Oh SHIT, the stuff after the bell is even more awesome. Orton tries to PUNT Cena's dad again, but Cena stops him and locks in the STFU, then tells his dad to kick Orton in the head. 

CENA'S DAD PUNTS ORTON IN THE FUCKING HEAD~! And it's the best thing ever. Isn't Cena's dad a manager or something on the Indy scene? Guy needs to be on WWE TV. He's great. Looks like a fucking MAFIA DON when he's pissed off. Backstage The Coach is screaming at him for what just happened and announced a Last Man Standing match between Cena and Orton at No Mercy. Then Cena shows up and shoves Coach down, which is probably best for Coach because Cena's dad just stands there stone faced and was likely about to snap his neck or something.

Wow, and to think, I was dreading this match!

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


*The Undertaker Vs Mark Henry*

It's the return of the motherfucking DEAD MAN!!! 

Unfortunately this match is kinda well known for being awful. But as an Undertaker fan I'm sure I'll enjoy it .

Undertaker's return entrance is glorious as always :mark:.

The fans aren't exactly going nuts here which is a shame, because Undertaker and Henry are giving us a good show. Undertaker's punches are just :mark: and Henry just fucking SUPERPLEXED Undertaker!!!

Always makes me :lmao when the commentators try to claim Henry really IS the strongest man in the world. "IT'S NOT JUST A NICKNAME HE'S REALLY THE WORLD'S STRONGEST MAN". Meanwhile in 2007, Mariusz Pudzianowski and Zydrunas Savickas existed .

Man, the crowd being dead really do kinda suck the fun out of this match lol. Fucking fans. Don't know a good match if it takes out it's cock and slaps them in the face with it.

Henry's work over could have been a little better, he seems to do far too many splashes lol, but otherwise it's good. Undertaker's comeback is :mark: because he's fucking awesome .

CHOKESLAM~!

KICK OUT~!

BEAR HU... Urgh, Bear Hug .

Oh hey, Henry has Undertaker in the corner. And he's climbing the ropes to punch him in the face. I WONDER WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN HERE!

LAST FUCKING RIDE OUT OF THE CORNER TO HENRY~!

The Dead Man wins!

This is a good little match . Fans can go to hell for being shit.

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 9.5*​


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Wait, am I seeing things?

CAL giving Orton vs Cena from UNFORGIVEN 2007 a very good rating? :lmao

Gives me hope you'll like their 09 stuff (well, I Quit and Ironman) more when you do the rambles there.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Forget about that ramble. ZEP made it to the big leagues. Who had to forfeit their moderation rights as a result? And did this company really change the name of TLC? :lmao

EDIT: Actually we should be talking about NXT and Sami's Foley-esque promo.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Biggest shock, me being a Mod or Cal giving Cena/Orton a good rating lol. 

I didn't even know Taker/Henry had a match at that PPV, was that after Taker returned from injury?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brock said:


> Biggest shock, me being a Mod or Cal giving Cena/Orton a good rating lol.
> 
> I didn't even know Taker/Henry had a match at that PPV, was that after Taker returned from injury?


Remember when Henry "took out" Undertaker and cost him the WHC on SD after the cage match with Batista/Edge cash in? Well that match on the PPV is when Undertaker returns from the beating to get revenge on Henry.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Lmao Snow is actually a ton of fun to watch, atleast the stuff I've seen which is mainly from his AE/Hardcore division run. He wrestled those hardcore matches smartly for the most part and they were almost always worth a watch.
> 
> BTW congrats on becoming a mod bud! You've been the MVP of this thread for as long as I've been here, I say it's way over due. Hope they didn't stick you in the TNA section or something . I felt bad for Hayley when he got stuck there.


Thankfully I have the WWE section to fall back on 8*D

C'MON @ Cal not thinking Unforgiven 2007 is a pile of shit. Bro, plz. Elijah Burke made me want to tear my eyes out w/his work that proved he wasn't trained as a wrestler. How could anyone be that bad? Taker vs Henry is shit. Cena vs Orton doesn't even work as a filler bit. Triple H vs Carlito :lmao World Title is tolerable, but nothing. Hardy/MVP vs who is yet another DUD. And he skips the Women's match which proved to be a decent affair too, haha. 

We only agree on the Cade/Murdoch vs London/Kendrick match. Which is really quite swell.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HAYLEY'S XMAS TWITTER NUDES said:


> Thankfully I have the WWE section to fall back on 8*D
> 
> C'MON @ Cal not thinking Unforgiven 2007 is a pile of shit. Bro, plz. Elijah Burke made me want to tear my eyes out w/his work that proved he wasn't trained as a wrestler. How could anyone be that bad? Taker vs Henry is shit. Cena vs Orton doesn't even work as a filler bit. Triple H vs Carlito :lmao World Title is tolerable, but nothing. Hardy/MVP vs who is yet another DUD. And he skips the Women's match which proved to be a decent affair too, haha.
> 
> We only agree on the Cade/Murdoch vs London/Kendrick match. Which is really quite swell.


Well at least we agree on ONE thing. That's... something? 

Now I just need to figure out which show to do next.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Hey everyone, Brett Mix here. Formally Austin101.

It's been 5 years so I thought I'd sign up, I've gone to rehab and done a lot of growing up since the days I was here.

I had always liked the amount of people who used this star ratings thread and I've gotten back into wrestling so I thought since it's been a half-decade and I've changed a whole lot I'd give this another go.

So now that I'm done with that I'll post something, thread-worthy...


*Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho WCW Fall Brawl 9/15/96 *:



I have no doubt in my mind that this is one of the matches Chris Jericho is referring to when he was recently asked if there was Benoit matches worthy of making his new DVD project. He obviously pointed out Royal Rumble 2001, but he said there were many others. I would suspect if I was him, this match, the Raw match in Japan 2/2/05, the Judgment Day 2000 match, the AJPW match in 1995 are four of the matches I'm sure he'd choose. They are the ones, I like the most anyway. I'm not crazy about Summerslam 2000's 2 out of 3 falls or Backlash 2000, though those are two very good IC title PPV matches. They just don't stand out like the four I just mentioned.

*DO NOTE:* He said though, _(on the topic of including Benoit matches)_ he doesen't think he's allowed to include them, and is not sure if he "wants to anyway"....so there's that.

While this match is fantastic and tells a great story in its own right, I really loved the story it had going. Jericho was the new up and comer in the mainstream promotion in North America here in WCW (As ECW wasn't so main-stream prior to this) and was looking to make a name against a "Horsemen."

Benoit in one spots while dishing out his crisp offense yells at Jericho and says "You wanna be famous Jericho!?"...all this while Jericho hits all kinds of sick offense on Benoit.

Benoit disected the upper-body, ribs and mostly the back of Jericho and the end after 15 minutes of breath-taking action was a Side-Superplex to further up on the back resulting in all Benoit's hard work. Benoit controlled the match similar to how he would 2/3 of the time versus Eddie Guerrero in their many matches and Jericho here like Guerrero did there would come back with an amazing counter-move and follow it up with a highlight reel offensive move in return. Moonsaults, Double underhook suplexes with a bridge, and showing off most of his offense he would later use in his arsenal as Y2J or Lionheart in WCW. 

But here a lot of people were seeing it for the first time, and Jericho really sold his injuries well and didn't just hit these high spots to Benoit "RIGHT AWAY" and put over all the work Benoit did to him.

This is as good of a wrestling match you could have on PPV for the "mid-card" when it comes to story-telling, chemistry, psychology and in-ring work.

They managed to even get the dead crowd to "care" by the end and while Jericho lost he looks like he "made it" by going neck to neck "with a Horseman" as credible as Benoit.


_Classic._




***** 1/4*


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Could I get some rec's off of the OLD SCHOOL channel on the Network ? Saw that kamala/andre cage match and it was awesome


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Kendrick.London/Cade.Murdoch seemed to happen every week, didn't like Triple H's run at the time and Candice being champion IMO was the start of the womans division's downfall. So I skipped those match and didn't know Taker/Henry took place.

Didn't like Orton/Cena, enjoyed the WWE tag title match for Hardy.MVP, Punk/Burke was ok and Batista/Khali/Mysterio was good.

The build for Punk/Burke was simple as hell, in the locker room Burke congradulated Punk on the title win than Burke challenged um. Was actually interested in Khali/Mysterio cause Batista wasn't involved. Teddy Long's reason for added Batista was so Batista could watch Mysterio's back :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

#ROOT said:


> Well at least we agree on ONE thing. That's... something?
> 
> Now I just need to figure out which show to do next.


Something to add into the WWF vs WCW stuff. Make me the last one to join in. :evil



Bountiful Nikki Bella Claus said:


> Could I get some rec's off of the OLD SCHOOL channel on the Network ? Saw that kamala/andre cage match and it was awesome


:mark:

I'm still slamming through those myself. I think the MSG show at the end of '91 w/a GREAT Hogan vs Flair match is on there. Worth seeing the match if you haven't already.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

You know I have :flair3, caught a nice Piper/Flair one but idk if there is anything else. Hogan/Slaughter, Backlund/Hansen caught my eye


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only Backlund vs Hansen match on the Network is in the cage, right? That's good. I think it may have been the blow off b/c it was a cage match & the way it was worked saw Backlund beat the piss out of Hansen to kind of seal the deal. Hansen getting clocked pillar to post from Bobby B was quality. Miss little things like that. The stoogin'.

Youtube has some others too _(Matches #2 & #4, respectively. The Cage was #5)_





 




New Japan match is :done


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea the cage is on there
Seen the 81 match before, so I'll watch the one to the left. What's your thoughts on PHIL/HHH NOC btw ? The podcast have made me want to go back and see it


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dreadful.

Good luck, if you do watch it soon.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

I posted that *1250 matches* list I have at 4 stars or higher that I've worked on the last 7-8 years in the "Classic Wrestling" forum. It's far too large to post in this thread so that's why I put it over there.

Since it involves snowflakes here's the link for that if anyone is interested....


http://www.wrestlingforum.com/classic-wrestling/1503042-my-list-1250-matches-four-stars-above.html


I update that list daily, with edits and I'm still working on counting things and giving certain matches correct dates.

---------------------------------





In other news I recently re-watched *23 Guerrero-Benoit matches* in the last week. Some may find that tiring, but I felt it was a great viewing experience. Especially since I thought the two never really had that many great matches together. Was I wrong...



I wrote reviews for each one but again, that's pretty long so here they are *in order from best to worst.*


---------------------------------------------

_Chris Benoit-Eddie Guerrero Series:_




*1) 6/11/96 NJPW **** 3/4 (Best match together, it has everything a match could want.)


2) 5/13/95 NJPW **** 1/2 (The Picture Quality of this match is horrendous but it's so damn good as it's something different to the usual formula in the matches as Eddie is the dominant one)


3) 10/16/95 WCW Nitro **** 1/2 (From Benoit's DVD, amazing story-telling, with a terrific pace)


4) 11/18/95 WCW Saturday Night **** 1/2 (Meltzer is high on this one, same rating..it is a technical show-down.)



5) 7/27/05 WWE Vengeance **** 1/4 (Pretty sure most have seen this, it's the best WWE match they had together)


6) 11/18/96 WCW Nitro **** (Very underrated)


7) 12/15/02 WWE Armageddon **** (Better this time around, a forgotten gem for a PPV match)


8) 4/14/94 NJPW **** (From Benoit's DVD...Still a terrific match)


9) 7/21/05 WWE Smackdown! **** (The last match they had together was a bloody classic)


10) 3/9/96 WCW Saturday Night *** 3/4 (Watch for the ending as Guerrero two weeks in a row comes from behind with miraculous counters and puts Chris away)


(These two Saturday Night Matches -above and below- are best to watch back to back, just 10 minutes each, The story goes together and they are so damn good.)


11) 3/2/96 WCW Saturday Night *** 1/2 (The beginning of the two back to back weekly Saturday Night matches where Benoit dominates and Eddie's counters and miraculous moves make these matches so fun)



12) 11/25/95 WCW Saturday Night *** 1/2 (The week after their technical masterpiece, they still put on awesome work but don't live up to the previous two classic tv matches)


13) 11/7/95 WCW Nitro *** 1/2 (Damn good match, a shame the other ones exist or this would surely be memorable)


14) 12/23/96 WCW Saturday Night *** 1/2 (A forgotten match. Doesen't get credit, never heard anyone say anything about this one but it's a damn good outing 6 days before Starrcade 96.)


15) 1/20/96 WCW Saturday Night *** 1/4 (These never get tiring)


16) 3/12/01 WWF Raw *** 1/4 (Has a good feel, like they came to the big time to display their stuff. Takes place im a big venue unlike the previous WCW matches and it is great)


17) 8/7/03 WWE Smackdown! *** (Saw this live)


18) 4/22/96 WCW Nitro ** 3/4 (Pretty good, tells a good story but short...)


19) 6/12/05 WWECW One Night Stand ** 3/4 (Disapointing as fuck)


20) 7/15/96 WCW Nitro ** 1/2 (average for these guys)


21) 10/20/97 WCW Nitro ** 1/2 (not bad, just average again)


22) 10/28/96 WCW Nitro * 3/4 (Long and very basic. Benoit was injured)


23) 3/23/97 WCW WorldWide 1/2* (Not really a match more of a segment with wrestling moves)



*


--
What's CRAZY about that list, is all the matches 16 and up are worth watching.

There pretty great, infact there's a few matches 12-15 I could of rated way higher. Awesome tv matches around that spot for the most part worth looking up. You can find every one of these matches on Youtube or Dailymotion.


I believe (outside of house show matches) the two did have a couple more matches together on television. One more in Japan for sure.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I have what was apparently their first ever encounter on my DM Channel.

Brett Mix eh?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Austin101 lives.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kenny what are your thoughts on various Benoit vs Eddie matches? :lenny2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HAYLEY'S XMAS TWITTER NUDES said:


> Something to add into the WWF vs WCW stuff. Make me the last one to join in. :evil


I was thinking more on the lines of the next 2007 PPV ya twonk .


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

HAYLEY'S XMAS TWITTER NUDES said:


> Kenny what are your thoughts on various Benoit vs Eddie matches? :lenny2


gotta admit i havent watched them all..


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

But that year sucks unless it involves Cena. 8*D


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

#ROOT said:


> I was thinking more on the lines of the next 2007 PPV ya twonk .


no mercy?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HAYLEY'S XMAS TWITTER NUDES said:


> But that year sucks unless it involves Cena. 8*D


But it's the year I'm up to so I have to watch ya daft plonker.



King Kenny Klaus said:


> no mercy?


Well I did just watch Unforgiven and I'm interested in seeing how the Cena/Orton LMS turns out after the great build to it 8*D.

Or I might go to NWO because I wanna watch the epic main event tag match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

One Night Stand?


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Great promo by Zayn. Not sure why people continue to label him as vanilla and skill-less aside from in ring ability when considering how his promo work and recent character development (he's done quite well with it) alone seems to surpass that of the vast majority of those on the Main Roster.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

#ROOT said:


> But it's the year I'm up to so I have to watch ya daft plonker.


Have to watch the same PPVs 10x over isn't true. 8*D

Do WM so you get one of the most epic Taker moments.



RuDOLPH St. Ziggles said:


> Great promo by Zayn. Not sure why people continue to label him as vanilla and skill-less aside from in ring ability when considering how his promo work and recent character development (he's done quite well with it) alone seems to surpass that of the vast majority of those on the Main Roster.


Being BITW causes rage to those who try not to "buy the hype" b/c he had massive success before joining WWE; continuing into his career while in WWE. You know, the reasons twonks try to argue for no reason at all, etc.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Already done WM ya pleb. And I haven't seen these PPV's 10 times each btw. Most I've only seen once when they aired. SO THERE.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

LIES.

Fine, then do NWO, I guess. Yeah do it, it has a good chance at ending up like your best ramble: Armageddon '04.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HAYLEY'S XMAS TWITTER NUDES said:


> Have to watch the same PPVs 10x over isn't true. 8*D
> 
> Do WM so you get one of the most epic Taker moments.
> 
> ...


Exactly. No matter what, people are ALWAYS going to try to pick apart the truly great talents, guys like Bryan, Zayn, Cesaro, Punk, Ambrose, Rollins, etc will ALWAYS get ridiculous hate because people can't stand when someone they irrationally don't like is really, really good at something. It's a weird conundrum. My personal favorite is when people try to pick apart Bryan and Zayn because "they will never draw like Austin or the Rock", as if that's even possible to do anymore, and as if that matters one single bit when discussing their talent level.

This thread has been dead for a bit so I've had to venture into the WWE Section more and it consistently has me wanting to bash my head into the wall.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Exactly. No matter what, people are ALWAYS going to try to pick apart the truly great talents, guys like Bryan, Zayn, Cesaro, Punk, Ambrose, Rollins, etc will ALWAYS get ridiculous hate because people can't stand when someone they irrationally don't like is really, really good at something. It's a weird conundrum. My personal favorite is when people try to pick apart Bryan and Zayn because "they will never draw like Austin or the Rock", as if that's even possible to do anymore, and as if that matters one single bit when discussing their talent level.
> 
> This thread has been dead for a bit so I've had to venture into the WWE Section more and it consistently has me wanting to bash my head into the wall.


Yup. Same here, I judge my favorites on Their wrestling ability and how I can personally appreciate them, drawing monies and all that nonsense doesn't even enter my head. It's just an easy excuse for marks to try and argue their own point imo.


----------



## THH (Feb 2, 2005)

As you can tell from my banner, I only like the big draws. Bryan just can't cut the mustard. :dance2


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

*NWA Battle of the Belts February 2/14/86:*


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFNI1Gi4AgE


The Chain-Wrestling between Flair and Windham is so smooth, it's interesting how Ric could have some longer matches start out so well, and some with other opponents like Terry Taylor in June of 1988 (Mid-South) where the action doesen't pick up for 20 minutes.

That link I provided shows the event's action, first 6 or 7 matches clipped then Flair-Windham in full.


Seemed like a good show, nice quality on the upload too.


***** 3/4* -Ric/Barry


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

machomark said:


> *NWA Battle of the Belts February 2/14/86:*
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFNI1Gi4AgE
> ...


That's definitely one of the 15-20 greatest matches ever, in my opinion. Barry and Naitch had impeccable chemistry, I don't think they ever had a match that wasn't great. Well, the 4-5 matches I've seen from them are all great, at least. Windham said he wrestled Flair in so many 1 hour draws that he actually lost count. It's a shame Barry never reached the heights he could and should have, as I always come away from watching a Barry Windham match thinking "damn, he's really, REALLY, good". For my money, he was so much more talented than guys like Luger and Sting, they aren't even in the same class as him, and he was almost as good a heel as he was a baby face.

They have a really cool segment on the Network that shows a young Barry in Florida Championship Wrestling, before he was known, getting a chance to have a "legit" amateur wrestling match with the NWA Chamo Ric Flair. It's about a 6 minute segment from one of their TV shows, and Flair essentially makes Windham a star, just through this segment, as Barry continually gets on top of Flair and "rides" him around the ring. It's really, really fun to watch. I believe it's on the Legends Roundtable discussion about Ric Flair? I'd have to check again.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That's definitely one of the 15-20 greatest matches ever, in my opinion. Barry and Naitch had impeccable chemistry, I don't think they ever had a match that wasn't great. Well, the 4-5 matches I've seen from them are all great, at least. Windham said he wrestled Flair in so many 1 hour draws that he actually lost count. It's a shame Barry never reached the heights he could and should have, as I always come away from watching a Barry Windham match thinking "damn, he's really, REALLY, good". For my money, he was so much more talented than guys like Luger and Sting, they aren't even in the same class as him, and he was almost as good a heel as he was a baby face.
> 
> They have a really cool segment on the Network that shows a young Barry in Florida Championship Wrestling, before he was known, getting a chance to have a "legit" amateur wrestling match with the NWA Chamo Ric Flair. It's about a 6 minute segment from one of their TV shows, and Flair essentially makes Windham a star, just through this segment, as Barry continually gets on top of Flair and "rides" him around the ring. It's really, really fun to watch. I believe it's on the Legends Roundtable discussion about Ric Flair? I'd have to check again.




Don't have the network, not available in my area right now but from the sounds of it it's definitely worth it.

OH well I have access to pretty much amything I want to see anyhow..


That does sound interesting, I like all of that era.


_*Barry Windham vs Steve Austin February 13 1992 WCW WorldWide TV Title Match*_ - **** 1/2*



_*Cactus Jack and The Barbarian vs Paul Orndorff and Big Van Vader January 19 1993 WCW Saturday Night TV Title Match*_ - *****




Two really fun matches.

The latter tag match, they bumped like crazy for a ten minute rare tv match that ends in a DQ and is leading up to Superbrawl 93. The end got crazy.


The Austin-Windham match featured good chain-wrestling, good exchanges on the mat. Austin really was as he calls himself a "Great Mechanic"...back in these days.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Got bored and watched the Batista doc "Animal Unleashed", it's short, absolutely nothing worthy of being seen, except for one segment where Batista shows off his 66' Impala low rider that was done in dedication of Eddie Guerrero. It's got a sweet paint job with air brushed pictures of Eddie from all the different stages of his career on the front and back. It's just a really, really cool looking car and I'm sure Eddie would be thrilled to see his face plastered on such a gorgeous car. That's a pretty cool tribute to do, IMO. Maybe Big Dave isn't so bad after all


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Managed the opening match of NWO 07. Second match was about to start and... I just turned it off for now .

Watched the Kayfabe Commentary Back to the Territories: Mid-South last night (and the second half earlier today) with Cornette and Duggan. Great stuff listening to them both just reminisce about Mid-South for 2 hours. Looks like we'll be getting a JCP one next (or soon) since Cornette mentioned they're getting JJ Dillon in for another show.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

* Big Van Vader (c) (w/Harley Race) vs Sting in Non-Sanctioned White Castle of Fear Strap match for the WCW World Heavyweight Championship - WCW Superbrawl III February 17 1993:*



This match not only features the unbelievable chemistry from the two in this time period as their match together at the 1992 Great American Bash 1992 and Starrcade are other classic's.

This goes above and beyond those.

This match also features a strap, so both guys are linked together all match and it had great psychology for the gimmick match with both guys playing defense and being resourceful to the environment around them.

If that wasn't enough it became barbaric with the whips and welts created on both men's backs. 

Big Van Vader was bleeding from the ear, eyes, all over and the Stinger had gone through war with the Beast.

Amazing pace, great story-telling and just one of the best all around Wrestling matches I have ever seen.


Vader touches all four turnbuckles at 20:54, and Big Van is a bloody mess with no mask as he barely can stand to retrieve the World Title he fought like hell to retain. Race comes in to congratulate him but not before a battered and beaten down Sting covered in red welts comes a swinging away on the Champion as the crowd goes crazy!


One of the best matches in WCW history. Top 15ish I'd say along with the likes of...


-Magnum TA/Tully Starrcade 85
-Flair-Luger Starrcade 88
-War Games 91
-War Games 92
-Pillman-Liger Superbrawl 2
-Rey-Eddie Halloween Havoc 97
-Vader-Flair Starrcade 93
-Flair-Steamboat Chi Town Rumbl February 1989
-Flair-Steamboat Wrestlewar May 1989
-Flair-Windham BOTB February 1986
-Flair-Windham World Wide January 1987
-Foley-Vader Halloween Havoc 93
-Flair-Funk GAB 89



And some others..






***** 3/4*




_Probably top 10 World Title match in Wrestling History IMO._


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm still one of the biggest fans of the NWO '07 main event. Not just because of who is involved, although of course that it what makes it even better, it's just an awesome tag match.

Apart from Cole's flu ridden voice.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I like the other two big Windham/Flair matches over the BOTB one, but they all rule. Crockett Cup one in particular blows my mind. They did have one awful match together in a PPV in the 90s. I think it was in 93, which was a bad year for WCW after an incredible in-ring year in 1992.

Smackdown was alright. Ziggler/Harper was good and Dolph continues to hit home runs. Wyatt/Ambrose segment was sick. Big Show actually cut a good promo. Cesaro/Kidd vs. Black People was not bad. Like this Cesaro/Kidd pairing. The Mizes and the Usos have a feud that goes beyond rematches, which is the good news. Bad news is that it's still a weak feud. Tag main event was passable with some enjoyable spots. Smackdown has had more storyline progression than RAW these past few months.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

So Rusev vs Ambrose didn't get to happen. 

Those pieces of TRASH.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I like the other two big Windham/Flair matches over the BOTB one, but they all rule. Crockett Cup one in particular blows my mind. They did have one awful match together in a PPV in the 90s. I think *it was in 93, which was a bad year for WCW after an incredible in-ring year in 1992.*Smackdown was alright. Ziggler/Harper was good and Dolph continues to hit home runs. Wyatt/Ambrose segment was sick. Big Show actually cut a good promo. Cesaro/Kidd vs. Black People was not bad. Like this Cesaro/Kidd pairing. The Mizes and the Usos have a feud that goes beyond rematches, which is the good news. Bad news is that it's still a weak feud. Tag main event was passable with some enjoyable spots. Smackdown has had more storyline progression than RAW these past few months.




Your right.

I went to my list because I swore I though 1993 was also a terrific in-ring year, I only had 7 matches above **** 1/4 from that year from the WCW.

Outside Big Van Vader, there wasn't very much to choose from. Hollywood Blondes were good and there was that Benoit-Scorpio Superbrawl match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TT 05 Ramble on my BLOG~! today .

Downloaded NXT last night, first time I've bothered with it in some time. And the only thing I watched was the Neville/Zayn segment lol. Zayn was awesome :mark:. Looking forward to him finally winning the NXT title next week!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Oh, next week is the next, erm, NXT PPV? Main event should be good i hope.

Watching the 02/12/2001 Raw. Think one more SD, then it should be NWO time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Even if it isn't a match that is must see, the finish should at least be. I need confetti.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Brock said:


> Oh, next week is the next, erm, NXT PPV? Main event should be good i hope.
> 
> Watching the 02/12/2001 Raw. Think one more SD, then it should be NWO time.



Just watched NWO a few weeks ago.

Triple H and Austin was always five stars to me but it was even better this time around.

40 Minutes of Pure Hell, Psychology, War...it is Amazing.


Rock and Angle is also dynamite as I'm sure you know, the four corners match is solid, the Woman's match is a surprise, tag match is solid. Hardcore match is just there, not very good as it's short and everyone interfered.

It's a fun show though, I'm sure you've seen it.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

HAYLEY'S XMAS TWITTER NUDES said:


> Even if it isn't a match that is must see, the finish should at least be. I need confetti.


I'm not letting my hopes get too high but I'm rather bloody excited for it. Need to burn through the last few weeks of NXT actually.



Brock said:


> I'm still one of the biggest fans of the NWO '07 main event. Not just because of who is involved, although of course that it what makes it even better, it's just an awesome tag match.
> 
> Apart from Cole's flu ridden voice.


I'm fairly sure that would get the nod for my favourite tag match in WWF/E history (Not an excuse to post a list anyone), Undertaker does some incredible work on the apron and they make a match which nowadays would be a Raw main event feel massive.


HHH/Austin at NWO 01 is good, not much more for me... like ***1/2... good.... not great.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

With the 3SOH match, it's the first fall that I've never been a fan of. Love the last two falls. I'll see how it holds up on a rewatch.

Also regarding that NWO '07 tag, I've never seen the rematch they had on Raw (I think). Was that good?


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Craig said:


> I'm not letting my hopes get too high but I'm rather bloody excited for it. Need to burn through the last few weeks of NXT actually.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


***1/2 IS A GREAT MATCH YOU IDIOT

/End Austin101 rant


I love the 3 Stages of Hell match. Granted it's almost entirely because they worked at an amazing match for such a long time but I still love it. Don't remember disliking the first fall either, even if it was nearly as much of a street fight as the actual street fight fall was.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Craig said:


> I'm not letting my hopes get too high but I'm rather bloody excited for it. Need to burn through the last few weeks of NXT actually.


I am too, but only by nature of progression w/their matches in WWE. First I absolutely did not like & the recent rematch was good. Not great, but good. w/so much more on the line & in a bigger atmosphere, I'm hoping everything clicks. Zayn fighting for his career & ultimate vindication does give me chills when I can think about the kind of performance he'd put on.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

What I wrote.



*Steve Austin vs Triple H 3 Stages of Hell WWF No Way Out 2001:*




Well the story-telling is among the best I have ever seen between two bad ass mofo's on the top of their game meeting in a clash. It's amazing this was a side-plot to Rock-Austin at Wrestlemania and ended the whole "WHO DUNNIT" Thing perfectly. What is more, is how seriously bad the WWE fucked that whole thing up by making Rikishi the driver, and how they were able to fix it. Why was it great story-telling? Here you had Triple H in the top of his game as a HEEL, before his injury in the top of HIS Game, his absolute fucking prime. He just had a hell of a year making Foley, Rock, Jericho, Benoit, anyone who came in his path have a classic. Now he had to meet the one man he couldn't solve in CLEAN fashion as he was on the shelf. The Rattlesnake returned and they had not met, screwing each other out of title win's time and time again. These guys had a heated contract signing and then a added stipulation that they could not lay a hand on one another till No Way Out. THIS MADE YOU WANT TO PAY TO SEE IT. Austin....HHH...Classic GOOD Guy and BAD GUY meeting on PPV. A match arguably 2 years in the making and wait, it gets better. After the impeccable acting by both men we were ready to go, but in the PPV Meeting it's a gimmick match. 3 Stages of Hell. SO we get our rivalry ending match on PPV with three different matches in one. Here's my money and thank you.

-The 3 Stages ACTUALLY FIT THE STORY.

So Stage 1 is a technical match. Fine. Austin wrestles the Game and the Game wrestles Austin. Perfect psychology but wait...aren't these guys supposed to want to tear each other apart? YES. And that is what they do throughout the wrestling match in the first fall as it begins with a brawl with Austin getting the upper-hand (AS IT SHSOULD)...they were able to add in SOLID WRESTLING at a fantastic pace for the first 12 minutes. Triple H attacked the two spots on Austin he should have. The neck, (He had neck surgery, duh) and the legs...the knee brace and all. Austin worked over the arm of Triple H, hitting an arm-breaker, threw him into the ring-post and so on and so forth. One spot I like is it looks like a botch as HHH counters the Lou Thesz Press and Austin lands face-first onto the ropes and it looks like he twisted or broke his nose. As a guy who has been whacked in the nose on more then one occasion, that fucking hurts. The fantastic pace these guys WRESTLED in was WON by Austin who was more known as the "BRAWLER" and would have the advantage in the next two. Things look good for Austin....he's going to Wrestlemania...one would think, but oh no....the beat goes on....If this was a match in itself, the first fall I'd give it four stars. Austin got the fall at 12:20.


Fall 2 we had the best fall of the three. Hunter gets the tying pinfall after a Pedigree to Austin at 27:20 of the match.

Then the Street Fight was epic. Hunter proved he was capable of greatness in this type of environment with Foley at the 2000 Rumble. I'd argue this second fall which was the bulk of the entire match was almost as good as the Rumble match with Cactus. Austin's two suplexes on the ramp to Triple H. A back-body drop to the floor from inside the ring. Countering the Pedigree on the top of the announce table and another back-body drop to HHH through the Spanish Announce table. God, HHH's back must be crushed. Austin and The Game both blade, Austin smashes a TV set through Hunter's face, HHH made it back to toss Austin into the steps, hit him with a ring bell. Both men a bloody mess both kicked out and the war went on, the attention to detail was simply amazing. Both guys wanted to rip the other man apart and they did. I'd give the Street Fight **** 3/4 as a match by itself, but the fact it followed the first fall which went 12:20, is pretty incredible.

Then to end the thing the Stage lowers, the environment is more barbaric, match goes over a half an hour and finally ends at 40 minutes of pure hell. Chair-shots, the Sledgehammer comes out, both guys a bloody mess and in their very last wind give everything they have, and everything it takes to come away. A great climax to a entertaining match where and this is a cliche, but I don't know if it was ever more appropriate to use, then here...."A MATCH THAT HAD IT ALL...."....and more...by perhaps the compan's best GOOD GUY against the Companie's best BAD GUY, in such a great time in both men's career. If this ten minute, by now barbaric Cage Match was a seperate fall I'd give it **** 1/4. So **** mixed with **** 3/4, mixed with **** 1/4, should be an average of like 5.75 stars, but 5 is the absolute limit. So this match is quite easily 5 stars from where I sit.

Triple H even gets the win in the end when he pinned Austin in a Steel cage match to win 2-1 overall. This was after they both hit each other with a sledgehammer and a barbed wire 2×4 at the same time and HHH fell on top of Austin and ref counted the three at 39:27. The Bad guy....beats the #1 contender...STEVE AUSTIN...CLEAN..(At least to the match stipulations)...before Wrestlemania. A twist. Unbelievable.

Awesome fucking shit at 40 minutes to have three falls constructed absolutely beautiful together.

It's a travesty the WWE doesen't talk about it say as much as they do the far inferior Bret-Shawn Ironman Match at Wrestlemania 12.

Still though, after watching this match only 5 times in my life which I am doing myself an injustice where I sit....I've seen many matches far worse then this over 20-25 times in comparison.



So even though the mark in me wanted to see Austin win with the Stunner, he still got that decision in the first fall and seeing The Game prevail was very interesting.

It made both men seem awesome because Austin had his time in the Sun and would go on to have an extremely dominant 2001.


Match of the Millenium. Quite possibly the best match in the last 20 years also.....15 years for sure.




******
*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brock said:


> Also regarding that NWO '07 tag, I've never seen the rematch they had on Raw (I think). Was that good?


The Raw match is like 5 minutes long. Fun, but that's it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

EDIT: All LIES


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thought TLC was next week?


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

WTH BRO TLC is not tonight.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

OMFG. It is next week. Wowwwww

I went on the network and it said TLC was on tonight at 8. Guess that means it's last year's...

That makes me so mad. Go on the WWE App and it says 'watch TLC tonight at 8'


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

Yeah the app says the same thing. WWE is ran by morons.

Besides, you should be watching ROH FINAL BATTLE tonight!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Leon Knuckles said:


> Yeah the app says the same thing. WWE is ran by morons.
> 
> Besides, you should be watching ROH FINAL BATTLE tonight!


Sorry bruh, I've damn near hated that product since they sold it to Sinclair. Best in the World 2011 was their last great event, imo. It all went downhill from there.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

TLC is next week? Already? WTF?


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

^ usually SS to TLC are 3 weeks between them


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

machomark said:


> * Big Van Vader (c) (w/Harley Race) vs Sting in Non-Sanctioned White Castle of Fear Strap match for the WCW World Heavyweight Championship - WCW Superbrawl III February 17 1993:*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's an awesome match - Sting in his prime is a sonofabitch. He drives the crowd crazy, athletic as hell, I love the gimmick (face paint and masks automatically made you cool when I was a lil' biddy). I love watching his original runs in WCW and Japan - just an extremely teachable guy with the right size and a gimmick. One of my absolute favorites from my earliest wrestling memories as a kid too.

Is GAB Flair/Funk that ends and a wild brawl with Muta and Sting coming out to help the other heel/baby face? I'm not HUGE on the match, but the brawl afterwards is _epic_. You never really know when or how it's going to end - phenomenal stuff.


----------



## 666_The_Game_666 (Nov 18, 2009)

sharkboy22 said:


> TLC is next week? Already? WTF?


Don't you just enjoy these quick non-existent builds for WWE shows.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, Funk vs Flair from GAB '89 is the one that has the nutty post-match brawl once Flair catches Funk in the small package counter. I know Flair vs Steamboat COTC is out there, although I'd potentially dub it my clear choice for best US match on the year. Stellar heat; stellar match. Terry bah gawd Funk.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I don't agree with Austin101's rating of Austin/HHH from No Way Out. And this is coming from a huge Austin mark, I'd agree its moreso ***1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd say it's veering towards mediocre, if not worse, on my end.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Think I have one more Raw and SD left, then I'll be at NWO. Hope the PPV holds up, esp the 3SOH match, which I did rate close the 5 last time I think.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

*Ricky Steamboat Vs. Rick Rude*: Excellent opening match between these two going at it for 17 minutes. Steamboat makes a rare botch by letting his hand hit the mat 3 times after being put in the Camel Clutch by Rick Rude, which even The Body pointed out. Disqualification ending to protect The Ravishing One as this was his second match on PPV.

*Dino Bravo Segment* - The Canadian Strongman attempts to set a new world record by bench pressing 715 pounds (including the bar). I think it was definitely all Vince McMahon's idea. It was done to kill time and inform those who don't go to the gym. Bravo gets some great heat by asking the crowd in Hamilton, Ontario for complete and total silence then stalling. Frenchy Martin adds to it by speaking French. After attempting a walk out due to the fans not being respectful to him, Bravo comes back and fails to break the record when he doesn't lift all the way up, but ironically, he could've actually done it without Jesse Ventura's help if he hadn't tired himself out by doing so many reps with lower weight beforehand (he was struggling at lifting 650 lbs.) The Body berates McMahon and defends the new unofficial world record.

*The Jumping Bomb Angels (Noriyo Tateno and Itsuki Yamazaki) Vs. The Glamour Girls (Judy Martin and Leilani Kai)* - This was one of the greatest women matches in WWE history. The fact this was a 2/3 Falls for the Womens Tag Team Titles made it even better. Double dropkick finisher for the third and final fall for the title change. Judy Martin said this was her favorite match in her career.

*Hogan / Roussimoff Segment* - The contract signing for the WWF Championship rematch between Hulk Hogan and Andre The Giant for the upcoming Main Event TV Special. President Tunney makes a rare appearance for this auspicious occasion. With Ted Dibiase by his side, Andre refuses to sit down for a few minutes then changes his mind before sitting down. Amazingly, the chair is strong enough to hold his weight! Andre takes his time going over the paperwork (while The Million Dollar Man is trash talking Hogan) before signing it then attacks The Hulkster before he can finish his turn!

*The 1988 Royal Rumble* - Pat Patterson's baby made its debut and it didn't go on last despite the event's name. Strange. Bret Hart and Tito Santana are the first two men in the years long annual tradition. Butch Reed, Jake Roberts, Harley Race, Don Muraco, Hillbilly Jim, and The Junkyard Dog were also in this. The Ultimate Warrior entered near the end at Number 18. He ran to the ring and I think that's where he got the idea to make it part of his entrance from! Duggan's win after last eliminating The One Man Gang was the biggest in his WWF career. HO!

*The Islanders (Haku & Tama) Vs. The Young Stallions (Paul Roma and Jim Powers)* - Your second 2/3 Falls Match on the match. That awkward moment when you realize Paul Roma is in the main event...

- Vic


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

obligatory "austin/triple h is trash" post.

hey austin101


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

The lack of love that match 3 SOH is getting here does surprise me.

It doesen't matter to me all that much but I definitely would love some reasons it's mediocre, I gave a plenty why I felt it was one of the greatest matches ever.

The first fall alone, the "Wrestling Match" is a Classic. Tremendous strategic wrestling.

The second fall, the Street Fight, if this happened alone it'd be **** 1/4 - **** 1/2 In my opinion.

Then add in the third which was the worst of the three but topped off the first two perfectly.

Again, I love difference of opinions but I just wish I heard why it wasn't great. I have seen tons of people rate it close to what I do and I see there reasons. I've just never seen one person come out and say why it wasn't a classic match...it does intrigue me..





In any event .....Hey....

I never even knew this match existed as I imagine it got lost in the Smackdown Six shuffle...

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x13agif_eddie-guerrero-vs-kurt-angle-11-21-2002_sport


But I'll be....this is *Eddie vs Angle, SD! 11/21/02* in an awesome ten minute match on Smackdown! where both guys are determined to destroy the back of the other man. This took place right after the triangle tag at Survivor Series 2002.

Eddie does something in this match with two chairs that I've never seen. Brilliant.

Bringing two chairs to the side of the ring, comes in with one so the ref takes it away and as the ref takes it and puts it away, he grabs the other chair he had "hidden" and whacks Angle in the spine, just after Angle had driven his spine into the steps.


Hilarious and creative.

This was a tremendous, fun little sprint of a tv match.


**** 1/2*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HAYLEY'S XMAS TWITTER NUDES said:


> Yeah, Funk vs Flair from GAB '89 is the one that has the nutty post-match brawl once Flair catches Funk in the small package counter. I know Flair vs Steamboat COTC is out there, although I'd potentially dub it my clear choice for best US match on the year. Stellar heat; stellar match. Terry bah gawd Funk.


You aren't alone there, when doing my WCW project I gave Funk/Flair GAB strong consideration for #1 in company history. I love it that much. As great as the I Quit match they would later have is, I'm in the minority of thinking GAB was their finest bout. Terry Funk has never been better from what I've seen, Flair was amazing as a baby face after just months ago being a heel, the crowd was electric and all the brawling they did was picture perfect for what I like in a heated pro wrestling match.

At any rate, for me personally, it's between Funk/Flair GAB 89', Eddie/Rey HH 97', Flair/Steamboat 2/3 Falls, and Rude/Steamboat Beach Blast 92' as the best match in WCW history (88-01). 

Whenever I'm bored and need something to watch, I tend to gravitate towards 88-94 WCW for some reason. It's just about the best pro wrestling has ever been IMO. As much as I love 01-06 WWE it can't top those golden pre-NWO WCW years for me personally. Everything still felt organic and real.

Vic- I've never actually seen the Steamboat/Rude RR 1988 match, how much time did they get? Is it in any way comparable to the later work they would do in WCW?


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

HAYLEY'S XMAS TWITTER NUDES said:


> Yeah, Funk vs Flair from GAB '89 is the one that has the nutty post-match brawl once Flair catches Funk in the small package counter. I know Flair vs Steamboat COTC is out there, although I'd potentially dub it my clear choice for best US match on the year. Stellar heat; stellar match. Terry bah gawd Funk.


Terry beasts around in that - his shitcanning ability never ceases to impress:lol I liked it quite a bit - ****1/4 or something like that from me, but best US in '89? I don't think I can go there. ***** post-match brawl, though Watching it kind of cemented the idea for me that the match itself wasn't ****3/4-*****


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

machomark said:


> Again, I love difference of opinions but I just wish I heard why it wasn't great. I have seen tons of people rate it close to what I do and I see there reasons. I've just never seen one person come out and say why it wasn't a classic match...it does intrigue me..


I'd actually need to want to _watch_ the match to give a full and proper opinion on it and I might just do that, however off hand the finish is absolute trash, the first fall is pretty bad, second fall is very good and most likely a ****+ match however I can't take it separately because its not a separate match and the third fall is just kinda there for me.

I might go more indepth at some point but at least that's a better reason for disliking a match than your reason for disliking Flair/Michaels.


Funk/Flair at GAB is MOTY from 89 for me pretty easily, Funk fits into that vein of being an incredibly captivating performer to watch that all my favourite do, just the little tweaks and movements that let you buy into this man being a bit of a ball biting nutter.

Best match from WCW for me would be hm... actually let me pull up that top 100 matches of WCW poll I took part in, I'll just copy my top 10 from there:

1.	Ricky Steamboat Vs Rick Rude – Beach Blast 1992
2.	Ric Flair Vs Terry Funk - Great American Bash 1989
3.	Ric Flair Vs Vader - Starrcade 1993
4.	Hulk Hogan Vs Ric Flair - Halloween Havoc 1994
5.	Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat – Spring Stampede 1994 
6.	Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio - Halloween Havoc 1997
7.	Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Chi Town Rumble
8.	Sting Vs Vader – SuperBrawl 1993
9.	Wargames 1992
10.	Sting Vs DDP - April 26th 1999


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*No Way Out 2007*

JBL goes on an insane USA tyraid when Cole tries to introduce the Spanish announcers lol.

Wonderful, Cole has a sore throat. His voice is annoying enough without this.


*Chris Benoit & The Hardy Boys Vs MNM & MVP*

Plenty of talent in this match! MVP is here too. Should have replaced him with Melina. Would be better.

Speaking of Melina... DAMN. Smoking hot!

:lmao JBL goes insane when Benoit gets tagged in, and hypes up how great he is and claims the entire match is gonna change. Aaaand then MVP gains control over Benoit after about 5 seconds :lmao.

DOUBLE GERMAN SUPLEX~! Benoit just German Suplexed BOTH MNM at the same time! Oh btw this is all happening right at the end of the match . Literally nothing to talk about until that point :lmao.

Match isn't bad. Not in the slightest... it's just... a basic tag match. Heels control, hot tag, finishing stretch. Nothing out of the ordinary, no big bumps, no shocking moments. Just a solid tag that could easily have been on Smackdown rather than the PPV.

:lmao oh yeah, and Nitro somehow manages to take a BACK BUMP from an attempted BULLDOG by Matt :lmao.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


Hornswoggle thinks little people are scary :lmao. Finlay... throws him in a dumpster. And then he gets attacked by the mini boogeyman.


*Scotty 2 Hotty Vs Daivari Vs Gregory Helms Vs Funaki Vs Shannon Moore Vs Jimmy Wang Yang Vs Jamie Noble Vs Chavo Guerrero - Cruiserweight Championship Open Match*

Basically a gauntlet match.

:lmao so they put Daivari over at the start of the match, as he actually BEAT the CW Champ, Helms, on SD the week before. Aaaand then about 2 minutes later Scotty 2 Hotty beats him with the WORM :lmao.

Speaking of Helms, he's out next. CODE BREAKER~!

Man, the CW division was pretty dire at this point wasn't it? 

Funaki gets pinned in about 10 seconds. They might as well have not booked him on the show lol.

Code Breaker to Moore. Wow this match so far is a whole bunch of NOTHING.

The crowd are into this match just as much as me. They are silent, btw. In case you couldn't figure it out...

Huh, Wang Yang just eliminated Helms. And... the match isn't even over yet?

JAMIE NOBLE~! Are these two the last guys in the match? Which means one of these two are gonna be the NEW CW champ? Well at least they used up all the trash early on in the match 8*D.

Bought a new lamp today. It's pretty cool. With an LED bulb, which supposedly lasts 20 years. As someone who went through a pack of bulbs a month with my previous... 5 or 6 lamps lol... it'll be interesting to see if the LED bulb can live up to expectations .

Urgh, Chavo is in this match too. Guessing he wins? Yeah, he wins. Urgh.

What a boring, total NOTHING match that took the belt off Helms, who held it for over a year, in the most underwhelming way ever.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Finlay & Hornswoggle Vs The Boogeyman & The Little Boogeyman*

...

I'm actually skipping a FINLAY match.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*King Booker Vs Kane*

It just gets worse.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Paul London & Bryan Kendrick Vs Deuce & Domino - WWE Tag Team Championship Match*

So this is another of the many "new tag team shows up and immediately gets a title shot and wins" scenario that WWE seems to love for whatever reason. God forbid they ever try and build a team up first.

Cole's voice is getting worse and worse. Urgh. Why put a guy on commentary who can't talk very well? HIS ONLY JOB IS TO TALK AND HE CAN BARELY DO IT.

Fuck me, did I honestly think JBL was awesome on commentary during his first run in 06/07? I remember being so excited when he came back, then quickly got sick of him saying the same old shit. He was literally NO DIFFERENT back during this time too. He's as annoying here as he is on any current show. Cole too. It's just awful and them rambling about useless shit is taking me out of this match (which might not be a bad think since it's D&D in there, but still...).

Huh, London and Kendrick retain. Honestly thought this was when D&D won the belts lol. Guess that showed me .

If I had skipped this, I wouldn't have missed anything.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Bobby Lashley Vs Mr Kennedy - ECW Championship Match*

Urgh. I guess I'll give it a watch, what with it being a brand title match and all. Kennedy cuts a cringe worthy promo before the match, then Lashley shows up, mumbles, and I *think* punches Kennedy... but it might have been a push. Either way it looked awful and shitty :lmao.

Boy is this dull. Should have been the tagline for the show. "WWE No Way Out 2007: Boy is this dull!"

Kennedy attacked Lashley from behind on his way to the ring, and they do some shitty fighting on the outside, then inside the ring they... do some shitty wrestling. Lashley just kinda runs at Kennedy with his arms and clubs him down, and Kennedy works the leg of Lashley in the most boring way possible.

Devin The Dude is in the crowd!!! No idea who he is, but someone has a sign pointing to him. And looking at the crowd is far more exciting than what the two guys in the ring are doing.

So.... how about that local sports team huh? NOTHING IS HAPPENING IN THIS MATCH FOR ME TO TALK ABOUT.

:lmao the finish is Lashley getting DQ'd for hitting Kennedy with the chair that Kennedy brought into the ring :lmao. A dull as shit match with a terrible finish :lmao. 

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


The divas show up for... something, and Ashley does a Sable with covered tits, except they are playboy bunnies instead of handprints.


*The Undertaker & Batista Vs Shawn Michaels & John Cena*

Fuck YES, finally a match worth seeing on this show!!! :mark:

Man, this really was a HUGE fucking tag. Sure, it doesn't THOSE names like Hogan, Austin and Rock, but sweet jebus, we do have UNDERTAKER who is one of the biggest icons and legends in the history of the business, HBK who is always put right up near the top when it comes to WWE, Cena who is still the top guy right now and has been for TEN YEARS, and Batista who was Cena's #2 at the time and is starting to gain some real momentum in Hollywood atm. And to top it all off, these guys are all part of the 2 WM main events for the WHC and WWE title!

Back in 07 I was soooo looking forward to this match for one reason, and honestly it's still the main reason I love watching it back; UNDERTAKER VS SHAWN MICHAELS. The RR a month before was their first physical encounter in NINE YEARS. And we still had to wait another 2 to get them one on one . But we got that 2 years in a row at WM and both are fucking tremendous :mark:.

Match starts off with Batista Vs Cena, which is actually pretty big in its own right and would be a main event for a WM a couple of years later too. In fact it happened in 2010, right? And on the same show was the second Taker/HBK WM match too! Random trivia that means fuck all and nobody cares about but I'm telling you anyway SO THERE!!! 

:mark: UNDERTAKER AND HBK IN THE SAME RING TOGETHER :mark:. Crowd have been shit all night, guess they were saving themselves for this match. Don't blame em. Everything else was shit, and this has UNDERTAKER VS SHAWN MICHAELS in it :mark:.

:mark: UNDERTAKER AND CENA :mark:. Disappointing that was never got this at WM. Sure, technically it still COULD happen, but it SHOULD have happened a couple of years ago. Ah well, thankfully they have at least had a couple of great singles matches together in 03 and 04 .

SUPERPLEX TO UNDERTAKER FROM CENA~!

UNDERTAKER SITS UP~!

MOAR UNDERTAKER VS SHAWN MICHAELS~!

:mark:

Good GOD, Undertaker powers Shawn up for a body press, then just STARES at Cena like "hey, dick head, I'm gonna murder your partner and there is nothing you can do". And then he just launches HBK over the ropes to the floor :mark:. They were doing this shit in 1998. It's now 2007 and they are STILL more than capable of doing it, and doing it perhaps even better than back then :mark:.

Batista and the Dead Man do a good job of working over HBK, and I'm just nonstop :mark: over Taker and Shawn being in the same match lol.

Hot tag comes and things get even BETTER with all hell breaking loose. I like how Cena does his 5 moves of doom shit, but splits it between Undertaker and Batista. Probably because Undertaker was all "it's shit and I hate how it's set up" . And he'd be 100% right because it IS shit and the set up is awful. It all requires Cena's opponents to do THE EXACT SAME SHIT to Cena every time, rather than CENA doing everything. And it makes his opponents look retarded.

F-U TO BATISTA~!

MORE LIKE F-U TO CENA BECAUSE UNDERTAKER BOOTED HIM IN THE FACE TO PREVENT THE MOVE FROM HAPPENING~! 

Also nice to see that things settle down again a little so we can have another, albeit short, FIP segment, only this time Batista is the one in peril.

LOL, HBK tells Undertaker to SUCK IT as he sets up Sweet Chin Music on Batista... only for Batista to counter and tag 'Taker in :lmao. THE DEAD MAN GONNA KILL EM ALL~!

HOLY SHIT SPINEBUSTER TO UNDERTAKER . Batista just sent a message to his WM opponent! Undertaker is left alone, hurt, with HBK AND John Cena!

Sweet Chin Music right into an F-U, and THE UNDERTAKER takes the fall in the match! Well DAMN! I actually forgot that happened :lmao.

Ahhhh, this still rules the planet. The four top guys on the planet at the time in the ring together. WM opponents forced to team up and work together. All hell breaking loose. And what a way to help build to WM too! HBK/Cena were tag champs at the time, and HBK made it clear that he wanted Cena 100% and would "protect" him, so honestly those two working together better AND coming out on top makes sense. Meanwhile Batista and Undertaker are two MONSTERS who just wanna destroy everyone and be WHC. Undertaker sent a message to Batista after the RR when he chose him as his WM opponent and chokeslammed the shit out of him, and now Batista is sending a message right back to Undertaker that he isn't afraid of the Dead Man. And to top it all off, in ring wise it's a tremendous tag match and the crowd are HOT for it, unlike the rest of the PPV.

*Rating: ****1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 6*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 5*​


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Good stuff there Cal, I remember that main event and loved it on first watch. I should look at it again, I've only seen it once.





Craig said:


> I'd actually need to want to _watch_ the match to give a full and proper opinion on it and I might just do that, *however off hand the finish is absolute trash, the first fall is pretty bad,* second fall is very good and most likely a ****+ match however I can't take it separately because its not a separate match and the third fall is just kinda there for me.
> 
> I might go more indepth at some point but at least that's a better reason for disliking a match than your reason for disliking Flair/Michaels.
> 
> ...



Hey, how do you know I haven't changed my opinion on Flair-Michaels? I'm not the same guy I was, nor do I share the same opinions for the large part, but you all can see that rather then me tell it to you.


Don't get me wrong for what I'm about to say either regarding Austin-Trips.



You said, "Off hand the first fall is pretty bad."

Really?

Triple H in his prime as the Cerebral Assassin methodically going to the two places where Austin is vulnerable. His legs due to the knee-brace and his neck.

All of his offense complimented this stategy with swinging neck-breakers, Leg swings, figure fours, etc. Triple H was do damn good from No Mercy 99 to the injury in May of 01 at ripping his opponents apart where they were weak. (Think HHH vs Benoit No Mercy 00, HHH vs Y2J LMS Fully Loaded 00) 

Just great all-around, also the "Wrestling" match was the first fall and Austin and The Game got it started out with a huge slugfest to begin, just the way you'd expect between two people trying to kill each other.

Austin though worked over the arm of Triple H, very well. Remined me of his matches with Steamboat in this part. The psychology and pacing of this fall was about as good as it could of been...as far as I'm concerned anyway.

I felt it was a tremendous first fall.

That's My Opinion though, I don't see how they could of done a better first fall then what they did.

I'd love to know why it's bad. I really don't want to debate or argue as I welcome different opinions, but you only wrote off hand the first fall is bad. I just want you to elaborate on why. You said you may have to re-watch it to give a proper opinion, that's fair. But if that's the case why call the first fall bad if you don't remember it?

If you do rememeber it, I am curious to see how it's bad? 

Believe me bud, I'm not debating or trying to throw you off, I am just generally curious because maybe I'm missing something?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

The first thing I have learnt here is that you can never get a proper rating for Austin/HHH match from No Way Out . I've seen people giving it DUD's, and some giving it the full 5. On my last rewatch I gave it ****1/2, awesome match, but pretty far away from perfection


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Srdjan99 said:


> The first thing I have learnt here is that you can never get a proper rating for Austin/HHH match from No Way Out . I've seen people giving it DUD's, and some giving it the full 5. On my last rewatch I gave it ****1/2, awesome match, but pretty far away from perfection


That's what I find fascinating. Only on here...

Meltzer, Scott Keith, JD Dunn, everyone on other sites/forums I've been to have it rated **** 1/4 - *****.

I've never seen it rated under 4.25, until the last couple of days on these forums.

All good, I'd just like to know why and maybe someone will come up with something, but to each their own.


Moving on from that....


--------------------------------


Been in a Smackdown Six kind of mood the last couple of days, here's some flakes..



Benoit vs Eddie vs Angle vs Edge 4 Corner's Match Smackdown! 12/5/02 - ***** 1/2*


Rey vs Benoit vs Eddie Triple Threat Match Smackdown! 9/26/02 - ***** 1/4*


Los Guerrero's vs Benoit and Angle vs Edge and Rey Survivor Series 11/17/02 - ***** 1/4*


Guerrero vs Edge NO DQ Match Smackdown! 9/26/02 - ***** 1/2*


Chris Benoit and Kurt Angle vs Los Guerrero's Smackdown! 11/8/02 - ***** 1/2*



Edge and Rey Mysterio vs Chris Benoit and Kurt Angle No Mercy 10/20/02 - *******


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Awesome write up of that main event Cal. Not one mention of Cole's raspy voice either lol.

Damn, think I'll dig out that match in a bit before an early night.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

There was commentary in the main event?!?! 



I'd already mentioned Cole's awful voice in the ramble, didn't see the need to be negative when talking about the main event lol.

Just need to decide on the next 07 event to sit through. Already done:

Royal Rumble
No Way Out
WrestleMania
Vengeance Night of Champions
Unforgiven

And I'm saving Backlash for last so I can end on a somewhat high note. Survivor Series I'm saving too after I'd done a couple more events so I can sandwich the shit in between some good. At least, I hope. SVS better hold up, or rather the 2 main matches better hold up .


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Cyber Sunday 2007 is pretty good. Umaga/HHH, Orton/HBK, Taker/Batista & Finlay/Mysterio.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania both delivered pretty well in 2007 also. Night of Champions while not Great, I felt had some fun matches in the mid-card. Not great, but not bad, very watchable. The Yang match, Morrison-Punk, tag team match and Main Event are all solid.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

These WCW favorites lists are great, but still lacking in tag team excellence. :batista3


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Looking at my WCW list now I (if I counted right) had 23 tags and 3 WarGames. Can't believe how low I had Steiners/Nastys. Fucking #95? Not a tag but Vader/Bossman is #97. The fuck? I watched Vader/Duggan from Starrcade 94 recently and it was awesome and considering Vader/Bossman is probably a super more beephier version of that, there's no way I'd have it that low any more. I'm looking at what I had above it and wondering what I was thinking for some of it. I even wonder if I'd still like some of the stuff at all.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Guessing I know where to find this list so I can see everything you had on it. Part of me can't shake you having Vader vs Rhodes at #1. Or probs Eddie vs Mysterio Hair vs Mask. I dunno. Playing to your strengths. You're the next best person to flood it w/Eaton & MENG, too.

Not to discredit the fabulous decade that was the 80's, but if only (WCW) ^THAT was the current project. Now if I were to ever accomplish it, I'd be alone. I'll do it one day. Like the day right before I die, I'll have a list out. My top two may be locked in forever already. Most of it would just be needing to put stuff "in order".


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I didn't have any Meng on there, truth be told. I definitely remember saying that Eddie/Jericho v. FOF was my #101, though. I think I watched the rest of Meng's best stuff a year after I did the list. Best match with Benoit would have a shot at the list now, probably. I would be truly down with re-doing it one day. Back then I think I knew for sure Clash VI would be my #1 but I'm not positive any more.

Vader/Rhodes is my favourite WCW match ever, but I had it at 21. Might be higher on the probable-to-never-happen-re-do. Looking at the stuff above it I'm sure it would have a chance at being > RNR/MX, Flair/Vader and WarGames 91 at least. I remember I first watched it for the list and then when the match was over I literally watched it two more times without a break. Sterling had Vader/Dustin at #2, IIRC.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Can some one recommend a good Barry Windham match (excluding one w/Flair, I already saw a couple)? I want to see the greatness my dad was talking about earlier to day.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I thought for sure somebody asked for good Windham a while ago and I responded. 

I WAS RIGHT!;



me from January said:


> v. Flair 2/14/86, 1/20/87, 4/11/87
> v. Murdoch 7/11/87
> w/Luger v. Arn/Tully Clash 3/27/88, 4/20/88
> w/Flair v. MX Clash 12/7/88
> ...


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I thought for sure somebody asked for good Windham a while ago and I responded.
> 
> I WAS RIGHT!;


:fuckyeah


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Rewatched Ziggler vs Barrett for the IC Title on Raw and it was better than I remembered it as. Awesome match - great performance by both these guys (Dolph especially), they really worked the crowd (_very_ hot crowd :damn) and pulled off a great match for what it was.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

CHARLOTTE HAS ARRIVED


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I'm tellin all of you in the intangibles of Rusev are often overlooked. Guy rapidly improves and that guy sure can sell offense. Show's KO punch: legitimate knockout reaction. Henry's offense: back destroyed. Swag's ankle lock right there: Sells it like he got a freakin knife jabbed in his leg.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think I liked that Summer Rae vs. AJ match more than the Austin/HHH 3SOH match.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

YES, In Good Quality, the half-hour video of Savage-Lawler's Cage Epic from 12/12/83 in Memphis! ***** 3/4*

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1wevii_jerry-lawler-vs-randy-savage-cage-match-12-12-1983_sport



Love that match, my favourite Savage match in all honesty.


-------------------


As for *TLC 14* this Sunday....


Predicting winners in bold, and I'm going to guess how good the matches will be star ratings wise.



Tables Match:
*John Cena* vs. Seth Rollins
If Cena loses, he will no longer be #1 contender.


Im guessing it will be pretty good with both guys playing defense in a Table's Match, there is the potential for a lot of creative spots like there were in the Cena-Barrett Tables match at whatever event that was I watched not to long ago...

Guessing it should be about **** 1/2*



Tables, Ladders & Chairs Match:
Bray Wyatt vs. *Dean Ambrose*


Anywhere from *** 1/2* to ***** 1/4* in all likelyhood. This is the wild-card, it could steal the show or be dissapointing. 



Ladder Match – WWE Intercontinental Title:
*Dolph Ziggler* vs. Luke Harper


If that match above doesen't steal the show, this should certainly. No lower then ****** IMO. They put on one hell of a match a couple of weeks ago on Smackdown! (The one that ended in a Count-Out, not DQ) so add in a Ladder and I see big potential. Especially with how hot Ziggler has been.

I see him winning because I don't see him winning the Rumble or heading for a World Title match at Mania unfortunately, thus giving him the next "best" thing.



WWE Tag Team Title Match:
The Usos vs. *Damien Sandow and The Miz*


Keeping them in control as they are over and they just won the title's.

Probably *****



WWE United States Title Match:
Jack Swagger vs.* Rusev*


Rusev in line for a long reign.



*** 3/4*



Chairs Match:
Kane vs. *Ryback*


*** 1/4*


No reason for Kane to win....ever..


Steel Stairs Match:
* Erick Rowan* vs. The Big Show


Big Show just turned heel for the 100th time so he will need momentum right? Yeah, probably not gonna happen. Give it to the up and comer..


Will be shocked if this "Stairs" match is any good. ** 3/4*



Kickoff Pre-Show Match:
Stardust and Goldust vs. *The New Day*


Keep the New Guys going strong, even though I hate that the others would lose. But it's just a kickoff match.

***** ish





All in all it seems like there is three matches on the card that could be Great. Two for sure in the Ladder and TLC match. This is just my take.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

With that new Lawler dvd that is coming out, i hope they include the unclipped version of Savage/Lawler. 

Won't happen though.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Didn't realize we have a newcomer with us lately. Welcome, machomark. You seem like an awesome poster, minus the predicting star ratings thing. But hey, anyone who likes old school wrestling is a friend of mine.

But goddamit, does anyone know why there is no full-length footage of that cage match?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't like Savage/Lawler matches.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Thanks SB, yeah I don't predict star ratings much, that was just my epectations rather on how the matches would go.




Brock said:


> With that new Lawler dvd that is coming out, i hope they include the unclipped version of Savage/Lawler.
> 
> Won't happen though.




Do they own the memphis footage though? I know they own mid-south...I'd like to see the Loser Leave's town, un-clipped.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Midnight Express vs Southern Boys GAB
Doc/Gordy vs Steiner's COTC 
Eaton/Anderson/Zybysko vs Koloff/Steamboat/Rhodes 2/3 Falls Saturday Night
Vader/Austin vs Flair/Anderson Saturday Night
Steamboat/Rhodes vs Anderson/Zybysko COTC 
Hollywood Blondes vs Flair/Anderson 2/3 Falls COTC 
Windham/Pillman vs Steamboat/Douglas Starrcade 92'
Midnight Express vs Rock n Roll Express WrestleWar 90'
Midnight Express vs Fantastics WorldWide 88'
Cactus Jack/Maxx Payne vs Nasties Spring Stampede 1994
Cactus Jack/Kevin Sullivan vs Nasties Slamboree 1994

Are all tags that would EASILY, EASILY make my top 30 or so for WCW. Nothing beats the tag work done in pre-NWO WCW, nothing. 

Yeah1993: Benoit/MENG Texas Death Match at Slamboree 1997 should fairly easily make anyone's top 50 for WCW, but especially for someone who loves MENG and Benoit. If you don't get goosebumps watching Benoit fire up in the end you have no soul.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

What's everyone's thoughts on Elimination Chamber 2014 Shield vs Wyatt's?

I figure it's MOTY. This is what I wrote when I reviewed it.

----


*The Shield (Roman Reigns, Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins) vs The Wyatt Family (Bray Wyatt, Luke Harper and Eric Rowan) Six Man Tag Team Match- WWE Elimination Chamber February 23rd 2014:*



Holy jumping JC.


Few matches have hit me like this one did. I don't know if it was because I was having one fine morning today or because I had heard good things, or just because I have been on a roll watching some fantastic things. Maybe it was all of it together...No, no...I'm pretty convinced IT WAS JUST THE MATCH itself!.

This WAS...without a doubt...one of the funnest matches I have ever seen in my life. I have watched it twice today and it will be my 52nd match at 4.75 stars. Only the third match in the last 8 years at this rating. (Along with Punk-Cena MITB 11 and Punk-Bryan OTL 12)


It was just a career match for everyone involved. I've seen all these guys impressive performances this year. Wyatt with his great Last Man Standing match with Cena. Ambrose and Rollins having a great HIAC together....Rollins in that MITB match as well. Reigns performance in the 2014 Royal Rumble. Ya know Ambrose and Wyatt can do good things this weekend as well. I think this has to be the best match all six guys have been in this year.


One thing I love is it seems like a Horror Movie at the end. This was a mix of Wrestling and Story-telling and Spectacle and everything else thrown in the mix that makes Pro Wrestling what it is.

It was a clash of two terrific faction's and they were over as fuck, just when I thought the E was in a time where they can't really produce new guys...you get this...

It's amazing.

The ending scene with the 3 on 1 felt so old school, after years of seeing the heavily forced babyface down 3 on 1 and the routine-cliche come-back ensues...this one, it feels so genuine, so fresh! And when he Reigns comes back he does it against the World. The Wyatt's looked like something out of a Rob Zombie horror film and then when Reigns hits that amazing come-back sequence in the climax everybody marks the fuck out. Then they do the proper thing and give Bray the finish keeping them strong.

Rollins was the star of the match being a cat all throughout the duration. Only time he landed on his back was probably when he was double-teamed through the table. Tons of awesome suicide dives after displaying brilliant agility.

This was done so right, I have no doubt it should be match of the year. Best match since Punk-Cena Over the Limit in my books.

This was just so great. I thought the Elimination Chamber match with the Shield which helped make them stars at the previous year's Elimination Chamber was CLASSIC. Ya know, the one against Ryback, Sheamus and Cena. This is on a whole new level. It would be insulting for me to rate this match the same as that one. And that one I considered a classic six man. So what does that say?



*
**** 3/4
*






The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Midnight Express vs Southern Boys GAB
> Doc/Gordy vs Steiner's COTC
> Eaton/Anderson/Zybysko vs Koloff/Steamboat/Rhodes 2/3 Falls Saturday Night
> Vader/Austin vs Flair/Anderson Saturday Night
> ...




Most definitely, just looking at my star ratings list I copied and pasted the matches from PRE-NWO NWA/WCW tags I have...counting War Games since those are technically tags.

There are many indeed.




-"Nature Boy" Ric Flair and Arn Anderson vs The Rock N' Roll Express *NWA World Wide Wrestling February 18 1990 **** 3/4*




-The Midnight Express (Beautiful Bobby Eaton and Sweet Stan Lane) vs The Rock N' Roll Express (Ricky Morton and Robert Gibson) *NWA WrestleWar February 25 1990 **** 3/4*




-"Nature Boy" Ric Flair, Barry Windham, Sid Vicious, and Larry Zybykso vs Sting, Flyin' Brian Pillman, Scott Steiner, and Rick Steiner The 1991 War Games Match *WCW Wrestlewar February 24 1991 **** 3/4*




-Sting, Nikita Koloff, Ricky Steamboat, Dustin Rhodes and Barry Windham vs Stunning Steve Austin, Rick Rude, Arn Anderson, Larry Zybykso and Bobby Eaton The 1992 War Games Match *WCW Wrestlewar May 17 1992 **** 3/4*


------


-The Rock N' Roll Express vs The Minnesota Wrecking Crew (Arn and Ole Anderson) Tag Team Championship Steel Cage Match * NWA Starrcade November 26 1986 **** 1/2*



-Tully Blanchard and Lex Luger vs The Armstrong Brothers (Bob Armstrong and Brad Armstrong) Tag Teag Match *NWA World Wide Wrestling April 11 1987 **** 1/2*




-Arn Anderson and Tully Blanchard vs Lex Luger and Barry Windham *NWA COTC #1 March 27 1988 **** 1/2*




-The Fantastic's vs The Sheepherder's *NWA COTC #2 June 8 1988 **** 1/2*




-"Nature Boy" Ric Flair and Barry Windham vs The Midnight Express (Bobby Eaton and Stan Lane) *NWA COTC #4 December 7 1988 **** 1/2*



-The SkyScrapers vs The Steiner Brothers Tag Team Match *NWA COTC #9 November 15 1989 **** 1/2*




-The Midnight Express (Bobby Eaton and Stan Lane) vs Tracy Smothers and Steve Armstrong *NWA Great American Bash July 7 1990 **** 1/2*




-The Steiner Brothers (Rick and Scott Steiner) vs The Fabulous Freebirds (Michael PS Hayes and Jimmy Garvin) *NWA Great American Bash July 7 1990 **** 1/2*




-Midnight Express vs The Southern Boys *NWA World Championship Wrestling Gainesville, GA September 22 1990 **** 1/2*




-Doom (Butch Reed and Ron Simmons) vs Arn Anderson and Barry Windham Tag Team Title Street Fight Match *NWA Starrcade December 16 1990 **** 1/2*




-Sting and Lex Luger vs The Steiner Brothers (Rick and Scott Steiner) Tag Team Title Match *WCW Superbrawl May 19 1991 **** 1/2* 




-Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat and Shane Douglas vs Brian Pillman and Barry Windham *WCW Starrcade December 28 1992 **** 1/2*



---




-The Anderson's (Ole and Arn Anderson) vs The Rock N' Roll Express (Ricky Morton and Ribert Gibson) *NWA Starrcade November 27 1986 **** 1/4*




-Dusty Rhodes and Nikita Koloff vs Ric Flair and Tully Blanchard Tag Team Sttel Cage Match *NWA Richmond Event December 28 1986 **** 1/4*




-The Road Warriors (Hawk and Animal) vs The Midnight Express (Bobby Eaton and Stan Lane) *NWA Crockett Cup Day 2 April 11 1987 **** 1/4*



-The 4 Horsemen (Flair, Arn Anderson, Tully Blanchard, Lex Luger and JJ Dillon) vs Road Warriors, Paull Ellering, Dusty Rhodes and Nikita Koloff in the *1987 War Games MATCH NWA Great American Bash July 4 1987 **** 1/4*




-Midnight Express vs The Fantastic's *NWA Great American Bash July 10 1988 **** 1/4*




-Ric Flair and Sting vs Dick Slater and Great Muta *NWA COTC #8 Fall Brawl September 12 1989 **** 1/4*




-The Midnight Express vs Rock N Roll Express *NWA COTC #10 February 6 1990 **** 1/4*




-Ricky Morton and Tommy Rich vs The Midnight Express *NWA Halloween Havoc October 27 1990 **** 1/4*




-Dustin Rhodes and Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat vs Arn Anderson and Larry Zybysko *WCW COTC #17 November 19 1991 **** 1/4*



-The Steiner Brothers vs Takayuki Iizuka and Tatsumi Fujinami *WCW WrestleWar May 17 1992 **** 1/4*




-Steiner Brothers (Rick and Scott Steiner) vs Dr. Death Steve Williams and Terry Gordy *WCW COTC # 19 June 16 1992 **** 1/4*




-Stunning Steve Austin and Rick Rude vs Barry Windham and Dustin Rhodes Tag Tournament Quarter Final Match *WCW Great American Bash July 12 1992 **** 1/4* 




-Nikita Koloff and Ricky Steamboat vs Jushin Liger and Pillman Tag Tournament Quarter Final Match *WCW Great American Bash July 12 1992 **** 1/4*



-Barry Windham and Dustin Rhodes vs Ricky Steamboat and Shane Douglas Tag Team Championship Match *WCW COTC #21 November 18 1992 **** 1/4*




-The Rock N' Roll Express (Richard Morton and Robert Gibson) vs Stan Lane and Tom Prichard *WCW Superbrawl 3 February 21 1993 **** 1/4*




-The Hollywood Blondes (Flyin' Brian Pillman and Stunning Steve Austin) vs Ricky Steamboat and Shane Douglas Tag Team Match *WCW Saturday Night Wrestling March 27 1993 **** 1/4*



-Shane Douglas and Ricky Steamboat (Dos Hombres) vs Stunning Steve Austin and Flyin' Brian Pillman (Hollywood Blondes) Tag Team Cage Match *WCW Slamboree May 23 1993 **** 1/4*




-Hollywood Blondes (Flyin' Brian Pillman and Stunning Steve Austin) vs Arn Anderson and Ric Flair Tag Team Best 2 out of 3 Falls Match* WCW COTC #23 June 16 1993 **** 1/4*



-Stunning Steve Austin and Big Van Vader vs "Nature Boy" Ric Flair and Arn Anderson *WCW Saturday Night Wrestling Novemeber 13 1993 **** 1/4*




-Dustin Rhodes, Flyin Brian Pillman and Sting vs Stunning Steve Austin, Paul Orndorff and Rick Rude in a Thunderdome Cage Match *WCW Superbrawl February 20 1994 **** 1/4*



-Chris Benoit and Dean Malenko vs The Blue Blood's (Lord Steven Regal and Earl Robert Eaton *WCW Main Event Wrestling October 29 1995 **** 1/4 *



---


-The Steiner Brothers (Rick and Scott) vs The Nasty Boys (Jerry Saggs and Brian Knobbs) *NWA Halloween Havoc October 1990 *****


-The Rock N' Roll Express vs Rick Rude and Manny Fernandez Tag Title Match *NWA Event December 6 1986 *****


-Ivan Koloff and Krusher Khruschev vs the Rock ‘N’ Roll Express *NWA World Wide Wrestling May 1985 *****


-Nasty Boys vs Cactus Jack and Maxx Payne *WCW COTC #26 January 1994 *****


-Dusty Rhodes and Sting vs Arn Anderson and Tully Blanchard *NWA COTC #3 June 1988*


-Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat and Jay Youngblood vs Sgt. Slaughter and Don Kernodle Cage Match *NWA World Wide Wrestling Event November 1984 *****


-Dusty Rhodes and Nikita Koloff vs The Midnight Express (Bobby Eaton and Stan Lane) Semi Final's Match *NWA Jim Crockett Sr. Memorial Cup April 11 1987 *****



-Dusty Rhodes and The Road Warriors (Road Warrior Animal and Road Warrior Hawk) vs Arn Anderson, Lex Luger and Tully Blanchard 6 Man Steel Cage Match *NWA Event September 25 1987 *****



-Barry Windham and Dustin Rhodes vs Arn Anderson and Bobby Eaton Tag Title Tournament *WCW COTC #19 June 16 1992 ***** 



-Terry Taylor and Dr. Death Steve Williams vs Buddy Landel and Bill Dundee Tag Team Tournament Match *NWA Crockett Memorial Cup February 16 1986 *****




-The Midnight Express (Bobby Eaton and Stan Lane) vs The Fantastics (Bobby Fulton and Tommy Rogers) Tag Team Match *NWA COTC #1 March 27 1988 *****




-The Midnight Express (Bobby Eaton and Stan Lane) vs The Fantastics (Bobby Fulton and Tommy Rogers) Tag Team Match *NWA World Wide Wrestling June 10 1988 *****



-Bobby Eaton vs Ric Flair 2 out of 3 Falls Match *WCW Worldwide Wrestling June 12 1991 *****



-The Midnight Express vs The Southern Boys *NWA WorldWide Wrestling September 22 1990 *****



*
-NWA War Games 1989 Match *****


--- 

_among others....._


---



The WWF even has a lot of tags on my list but no where near the amount this company does.



I may have overrated a few, but damn if I didn't love em!


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*All Japan tags from the 90's kinda do actually.*


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

the joy~! of seabsmas said:


> *All Japan tags from the 90's kinda do actually.*


Buzzkill.

While I guess that's true regarding some matches in the mid 90's, it's personal preference.

I'd rather watch the NWA tags, but you certainly have an argument.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

the joy~! of seabsmas said:


> *All Japan tags from the 90's kinda do actually.*



I can't flat out disagree with you because I haven't seen enough of them. I've only gotten into AJPW in the last 9 months, and I've been mostly just working by way through the heavyweight scene. I've seen tons of singles with Steve Williams, Kenta Kobashi, Misawa, Kawada, STAN HANSEN, Vader, etc. I just haven't haven't gotten into the tags yet, the tags I have seen are like the Funk Brothers matches or Doc & Gordy stuff. I need to get crackin on those tags.

That said, I'm a commentary guy, I genuinely love great commentary when I'm watching matches and it significantly adds to my enjoyment level, listening to Jim Ross call a Midnight Express match will be tough for any AJPW match to top. Speaking of, how sick will it be to hear Ross call a Nakamura match? I'm most definitely getting WK9. Can't friggin wait.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Chris please tell me you have atleast seen Kobashi/Kikuchi vs. Can-Am Express?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

PAUL INCE PIES said:


> Chris please tell me you have atleast seen Kobashi/Kikuchi vs. Can-Am Express?


Nope I sure haven't, BUT, I'm bored and at home from work and I just found it google searchin so I'll give it a watch. Thanks bud 

Here it is for anyone else that's interested:


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x14srq4_the-can-am-express-c-vs-kobashi-kikuchi-ajpw-05-25-92_sport


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Is the full match?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> Is the full match?



Yep, and holy cow man what a GREAT friggin match. That crowd I think actually turned into molten lava and erupted through the roof of the Tokyo Dome at one point. That's easily the best tag from Japan I've ever seen. Geeze, who knew Furnas/LaFonn were that great? Not me, that's who. I loved the ending too, with them strapping the belts on Kobashi and Kikuchi. Nobody does the "show of respect/fighting spirit" stuff better than AJPW in the 1990s.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Shield/Wyatts EC is definitely my MOTY. The match is everything WWE needs. Six young guys just tearing it up and proving themselves. Plus, the crowd chants "This is awesome" before the match even begins. HYPE. *****1/2*

I've heard great things about AJPW 90s tags but never seen any of them. A recommendation or two would be appreciated 

My Highspots order came today, so I can't be bothered with anything else right now. But once I'm done, 90s AJPW will fill me for the rest of the year.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Yeah1993: Benoit/MENG Texas Death Match at Slamboree 1997 should fairly easily make anyone's top 50 for WCW, but especially for someone who loves MENG and Benoit. If you don't get goosebumps watching Benoit fire up in the end you have no soul.


I can CERTAINLY say I wouldn't have it top 50. Way too many awesome matches in WCW's run (we counted between late 88-to the end fwiw) for it to make it. If I were to list it it wouldn't be higher than mid-80s. Again I'm looking at stuff on my list and I'm pretty sure I consider Benoit/Meng better than some of it now. 

Sting/Meng GAB95 is awesome, too. 



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Yep, and holy cow man what a GREAT friggin match. That crowd I think actually turned into molten lava and erupted through the roof of the Tokyo Dome at one point. That's easily the best tag from Japan I've ever seen. Geeze, who knew Furnas/LaFonn were that great? Not me, that's who. I loved the ending too, with them strapping the belts on Kobashi and Kikuchi. Nobody does the "show of respect/fighting spirit" stuff better than AJPW in the 1990s.


HOW AWESOME WAS THE COBRA CLUTCH?

Have you seen Kroffat/RVD 6/9/95? RVD's best match, and IMO the best All Japan match of the 90s that didn't have the Four Pillars in it (or Jumbo maybe but IDR Jumbo doing much without one of those four involved). If you want another tag Kroffat/Furnas v. Kawada/Kikuchi 2/22/92 is great. Doesn't have the molten heat of 5/92 tag (no match of 90s really AJ does), or, isn't as good, but I remember it being at least a better asshole showing from Kroffat and Furnas. Back when I watched it my basic comments were "Kroffat looked like the best wrestler in the world".


----------



## Cameron. (Mar 21, 2014)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrHpCsN7Zl0

Excuse my mark out.

This is really exciting to watch! Seriously, there's not a dull moment. McMahon and Lawler are great on commentary, and more importantly the chemistry between HBK, Hall & Nash is remarkable. You can kind of see the finish coming, but nonetheless, it remains an exciting match. I think Nash was a little under a year in the WWF at this point. Hope you all enjoy!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Sting/Meng GAB95 is awesome, too.


FUCK YES


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> Shield/Wyatts EC is definitely my MOTY. The match is everything WWE needs. Six young guys just tearing it up and proving themselves. Plus, the crowd chants "This is awesome" before the match even begins. HYPE. *****1/2*
> 
> I've heard great things about AJPW 90s tags but never seen any of them. A recommendation or two would be appreciated
> 
> My Highspots order came today, so I can't be bothered with anything else right now. But once I'm done, 90s AJPW will fill me for the rest of the year.



If we include NXT then Zayn/Cesaro ArRival is my MotY for 2014 (unless something crazy happens at TLC or on Raw before January 1.) If it's only WWE then yea Shield/Wyatt's EC takes the cake for me, too. I can't decide if it tops the Shield vs Hell No/Ryback TLC match as the best 6 man offering in WWE history. Both totally blew me away.




Yeah1993 said:


> I can CERTAINLY say I wouldn't have it top 50. Way too many awesome matches in WCW's run (we counted between late 88-to the end fwiw) for it to make it. If I were to list it it wouldn't be higher than mid-80s. Again I'm looking at stuff on my list and I'm pretty sure I consider Benoit/Meng better than some of it now.
> 
> Sting/Meng GAB95 is awesome, too.
> 
> ...


Can't believe I have a MENG match rated higher than you. That Death Match is one of my personal favorites for sure. Including everything from 1988-2001, yea I'd still have it in my top 50. I love it that much. 

I feel like a dope now because I must have missed the Cobra Clutch spot in that match. There was a 5 minute portion were I wasn't paying perfect attention because my girlfriend got home and would stfu and let me watch in peace . Guess that's as good of an excuse as any to rewatch something:evil

I have NOT seen the Kroffat/RVD match, BUT Rob was on Jericho's podcast and he agrees with you, he said the Kroffat match was the best of his career so now I'll have to search and find it. I'm not an RVD hater nor am I enamored with him, having not seen the match in question my 2 picks for his best match would have been either vs Eddie at Backlash 02' or vs Orton on Raw in Jan of 04'. One of the 2.

Speaking of the Cobra Clutch, I did watch the Slaughter/Shiek Boot Camp MSG match last night, then I watched the other Boot Camp match they had in DC right near my home town. The MSG match is definitely vastly superior to the DC one, but both are excellent. That MSG match might be the best US match of the 1980s. That over the top turnbuckle bump Slaughter takes is wonderful, and just Slaughters selling in general is about one of my favorite things ever. He might be one of the very best ever at the stagger sell/fire up/fists of fury sequence that so many people try and fail at. It can come off looking totally goofy if not done perfectly, but Slaughters selling is picture perfect in every match I've ever seen him in.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Gosh, I hate that Eddie vs RVD match from Backlash '02. All they do is hit random high impact moves until Eddie cheats to win. Crowd didn't even care & RVD is rolling off of WM w/the Intercontinental strap. Speaks volumes. That's what I get for being interested in seeing it.


----------



## TheChoppingMachine (Mar 25, 2014)

sharkboy22 said:


> I've heard great things about AJPW 90s tags but never seen any of them. A recommendation or two would be appreciated


The one posted by Rabid is definitely one of the best (but wasn't in the Tokyo Dome  )

A few others





Considered by a lot as the greatest tag of all time





To celebrate the return of Big Johnny at the slammys





An other one with the Can-Am, it's 89 but I love it


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I feel like a dope now because I must have missed the Cobra Clutch spot in that match. There was a 5 minute portion were I wasn't paying perfect attention because my girlfriend got home and would stfu and let me watch in peace . Guess that's as good of an excuse as any to rewatch something:evil


It's entirely possible I have the wrong match. I know Furnas did the greatest cobra clutch I've ever seen to somebody Japanese, though. More than 70% sure it was Kikuchi. It's a little possible you didn't watch full match, too. It wasn't available in full for a long, long time and uploads of it floating around could still be the one with footage missing. Even then I'm sure the clipped version had the cobra clutch (if the cobra clutch is actually in that match). Hell if I know any more.


edit - HAD to check. Yep, it's full. I was mostly right. It was Kikuchi, it was this match, but was Kroffat. 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x14srq4_the-can-am-express-c-vs-kobashi-kikuchi-ajpw-05-25-92_sport

22:58


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Pretty blown away by Spring Stampede 99.

Has some bad matches but I'll be damned if this isn't the WCW's finest Event post 1998.

April 11th 1999....

Blitzkreig and Juventud start us off with a classic.

Kidman and Rey do the same. Both matches get close to 20 minutes to work their cruiserweight excellence.

Bam Bam and Hak aka Sandman put on a tremendous hardcore match in the middle of those matches.

Benoit and Malenko then go to work on Saturn and Raven and the brutality mixed with hard-nosed wrestling was a sight to see.


All four of those matches four stars or over.

The Main Event was also good, not great between Page, Hogan, Flair and Sting with Macho as ref.

Great show.






HAYLEY'S XMAS TWITTER NUDES said:


> Gosh, I hate that Eddie vs RVD match from Backlash '02. All they do is hit random high impact moves until Eddie cheats to win. Crowd didn't even care & RVD is rolling off of WM w/the Intercontinental strap. Speaks volumes. That's what I get for being interested in seeing it.



I really like this match, the crowd and commentary absolutely SUCK.

Kemper Arena is JUST DEAD.

Jim Ross pretty much whispers the entire match. RVD with a moonsault off the apron onto Eddie on the barricade, Ross says quietly..."Van Dam..."...and that's it.

Eddie's heel tactics and overall psychology make it a fun spotty match.

Really enjoyed it, though it's no work of art or anything.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Spring Stampede 1999 is one of the best WCW PPVs ever. 1999 was an overall bad year for WCW, but there's lots of nice gems from that year. The tag team division in particular was very good for about six months. Dean Malenko was probably the best wrestler in all of America at that point. Dean gets a bad rep for being "just" a mechanic, but when he's a babyface, he is so good at getting the crowd to sympathize for him. I mean why would anyone dislike Dean Malenko?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Because he's often boring as fuck, and wrestles almost the same long match with everybody which would be OK if it wasn't dry, and/or he looked like he was actually trying to wrestle a match instead of give a submission demonstration. He's usually really fun in short matches, though. Dean Malenko doing boring ass crap with Benoit for 76 minutes is a different wrestler than Dean Malenko tearing apart Disco Inferno and making it awesome. And those were on back-to-back PPVs.

By the sounds of it you're saying he worked like some kind of FIP, which I'm interested in seeing. One of the reasons he can frustrate me so much is he can be realllllly good but a lot of the time he isn't purely because of the way he liked to have a match. Like he has this way that he wants to work that I cannot stand that just ruins a match for me. Then other times he works another way and I dig it a lot. Has nothing to do with his opponent, either. So, when he's good, he's good. (???????) I'll completely believe him being a good FIP if he isn't insistent on getting so much offense in (one of the things that can really ruin a Malenko match for me). Guess getting in too much offense wouldn't make you a FIP, though, anyway.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

Iron Sheik documentary was top notch.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Yeah1993 said:


> Because he's often boring as fuck, and wrestles almost the same long match with everybody which would be OK if it wasn't dry, and/or he looked like he was actually trying to wrestle a match instead of give a submission demonstration. He's usually really fun in short matches, though. Dean Malenko doing boring ass crap with Benoit for 76 minutes is a different wrestler than Dean Malenko tearing apart Disco Inferno and making it awesome. And those were on back-to-back PPVs.
> 
> By the sounds of it you're saying he worked like some kind of FIP, which I'm interested in seeing. One of the reasons he can frustrate me so much is he can be realllllly good but a lot of the time he isn't purely because of the way he liked to have a match. Like he has this way that he wants to work that I cannot stand that just ruins a match for me. Then other times he works another way and I dig it a lot. Has nothing to do with his opponent, either. So, when he's good, he's good. (???????) I'll completely believe him being a good FIP if he isn't insistent on getting so much offense in (one of the things that can really ruin a Malenko match for me). Guess getting in too
> 
> much offense wouldn't make you a FIP, though, anyway.




Well at Spring Stampede 1999, he wrestled a very different match here against Raven and Saturn. It was a fast paced unorthadox tag team war.

I think that's why he was saying who would hate Malenko because of his diversity?

But even when he wrestles those slow and methodical matches. He's no more "BORING" then Bret Hart was.

Both those guys took time to display their craft at about the same rate. Even if Bret did have more personality say on the mic (Given waaay more oppurtunity though) I myself NEVER get bored by either men, but that's me.

I also forgot to point out Scott Steiner vs Booker T on Spring Stampede. That was borderline four stars...amazing event.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

When it comes to Bret I do find a run of the mill Bret match boring, its why I can never class him as one of my best ever even though he's taken part in many of the greatest matches ever, his offence, once you've seen it a few times is too bland for a 10 minute TV match, it just never felt all that fresh or like anything could happen it just... felt like yet another dull Bret match.

Bam Bam/Hak from Spring Stampede is surprisingly great from what I recall, like damn damn good.

DDP/Sting from the night after on Nitro is for me at least WCW's best match in the 96-01 region.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

machomark said:


> I think that's why he was saying who would hate Malenko because of his diversity?


Haha what I meant by that is that there is no reason to hate on Dean Malenko as a character. A 5'8" guy who works hard and has good intentions without being overexposed. He has the face of a guy you would consider to be the nicest person in the room. And I love that "76 minute" match with Benoit so lol. Only time I really had a problem with the way Dean wrestled was towards the end of the Jericho feud when he refused to brawl and instead tried to wrestle the same old match. It's a shame that the feud didn't have a good conclusion, but such is WCW. You guys should rewatch Benoit/Malenko vs. Adams/Horace.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Craig said:


> When it comes to Bret I do find a run of the mill Bret match boring, its why I can never class him as one of my best ever even though he's taken part in many of the greatest matches ever, his offence, once you've seen it a few times is too bland for a 10 minute TV match, it just never felt all that fresh or like anything could happen it just... felt like yet another dull Bret match.
> 
> Bam Bam/Hak from Spring Stampede is surprisingly great from what I recall, like damn damn good.
> 
> DDP/Sting from the night after on Nitro is for me at least WCW's best match in the 96-01 region.





I can understand how someone would find Bret boring.

I don't, but I can understand...

The only two matches that are considered "GREAT" that bored me at times was his Ironman with Michaels and the "CLASSIC" Summerslam 92 match. Too many side headlocks.

One thing I loved about Bret was even if his offense remained the same, he could tell a story like no other.

His match with the 1-2-3 Kid on Raw in 1994 tells an amazing story about an underdog with a veteran.

His match with Owen tells a great story as well with two brothers who were trained and grew up the same.

His match with Curt Hennig at KOTR 93 is as "Perfect" (pun intended) of a match as you'll get with two second generation guys, and he did this on the same night he had two other different GREAT matches with Ramon and Bam Bam.

His matches with Steamboat and Savage in 86 (Boston Garden's) and 87 (SNME) respectively, HE was the youngen, trying to measure up. Both those tell fun stories, he could also mix it up in the tag division.

I love me some Hart Foundation vs Killer Bee's, Bulldogs, Demolition, Rougeau's, Nasty Boys and Brain Busters, among many others.

The Steiners/Hart's tag was tremendous telling a story of amateur wrestling between brothers.

Both Bulldog matches were different (Season's Beatings and Summerslam) althoug some spots similar.

He also made his matches with Nash watchable, and definitely gave Undertaker some of the best matches of his career.

I really loved his technical classic's with Benoit, and he adapted well to matches with the likes of Booker T, Sting or Diamond Dallas Page.

I would of liked to see more gimmick matches, he knew how to work a cage match as seen at Summerslam 94 and IYH Rage in the Cage.

Even the Ladder match with Michaels is fun.

Then of course to end this little Bret loving marathon I can't help but mention all the classic's against Steve Austin.

Survivor Series 1996 and Wrestlemania 13. Two of the best matches of ALL time, both completely different.

All in all, I'm not saying you think his matches are the same Craig, I' merely pointing out why I love the Hitman so much. His story-telling in his matches is second to none, impeccable delivries...just not everybody loves his style.

That's fair. Not everyone loves Flair's style either. But many do. Same goes with the Hitman.


I could go on forever with examples, I'm just pointing out many of his great matches where the guy didn't wrestle the same match and his offense while BORING to some really can be quite versatile given the environment he adapts to with whoever he has to.....


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Before I head off. Willing to take a match request. (if it isn't online).


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

My being usually bored with Malenko isn't because of his style but how he uses it. I watched Malenko/Psicosis HH96 for the first time on the Network a few weeks ago and was really frustrated with how it turned out. Malenko took too much of the match, for starters, and so much of it looked so....choreographed. Like if two high school wrestlers got a group of people together and went 'look what we can do'. But, even then - Psicosis didn't look like that at all. A lot of the time I watch Malenko I just feel like it's a guy trying to display a series of wrestling moves instead of a guy trying to best another guy in some kind of fight. 

I can't say I've ever felt that way watching Bret Hart, FWIW. I've seen boring Bret Hart matches, but I don't think I can name more than MAYBE a couple matches where I thought he was tossing out random submission moves for the hell of it. And there aren't many wrestlers who I think look like they're trying to win a match more than Hart looks like he's trying to win a match. About 50% or more of any given Bret Hart match is likely to actually be punches, because he knew when to use the submission and/or phancy mat stuff (even then, his " getting out of a pickle" roll-ups and reversals are usually perfectly fit into the match). Malenko seemed to often use it even when it it didn't fit. I don't remember the Jericho stuff funnyfaces is talking about (I remember the feud, not the matches), but, yeah, good example if true. It's a revenge brawl - why slap that shit on it? Bret Hart doing a revenge brawl will just try to knock the crap of you for 20 minutes. There are similarities b/w Hart and Malenko but I think they're also really, really, really different.

funnyfaces said Malenko is that likable type of babyface and I truly agree with him. He's not really expressive or vocal but he's easy to get behind when he's getting the shit kicked out of him. I find him enjoyable that way. What I don't find enjoyable is when he works Psicosis, puts on random submissions, gives Psic barely any time to get his stuff in, and made the entire thing look kinda unauthentic. Honestly, though, while I like him working from underneath, one knock I have for him is his 'long-term' selling can be, like, non-existent. See almost any match he had with Eddie Guerrero in 1997. Eddie works the leg and Malenko ignores most of it once he has the match in his favour. 

I don't think Malenko is MOSTLY boring, btw. Like I said before his short matches can be fucking awesome because (a) he's trying to murder somebody and can have tight, violent offense, or (b) he actually gives his opponent enough time to fight back enough. Hell, there are longer Malenko matches I really like, even some where he spends a lot of the match dominating a guy. E.g. the Rey match from Germany is excellent and I thought Malenko looked like a violent badass in it and not a submission hold teacher. It's just whenever I'm really warming up to him I see more than one thing like that Psicosis mach and get really turned off.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Yeah1993 said:


> My being usually bored with Malenko isn't because of his style but how he uses it. *I watched Malenko/Psicosis HH96* for the first time on the Network a few weeks ago and was really frustrated with how it turned out. Malenko took too much of the match, for starters, and so much of it looked so....choreographed. Like if two high school wrestlers got a group of people together and went 'look what we can do'. But, even then - Psicosis didn't look like that at all. A lot of the time I watch Malenko I just feel like it's a guy trying to display a series of wrestling moves instead of a guy trying to best another guy in some kind of fight.
> 
> I can't say I've ever felt that way watching Bret Hart, FWIW. I've seen boring Bret Hart matches, but I don't think I can name more than MAYBE a couple matches where I thought he was tossing out random submission moves for the hell of it. And there aren't many wrestlers who I think look like they're trying to win a match more than Hart looks like he's trying to win a match. About 50% or more of any given Bret Hart match is likely to actually be punches, because he knew when to use the submission and/or phancy mat stuff (even then, his " getting out of a pickle" roll-ups and reversals are usually perfectly fit into the match). Malenko seemed to often use it even when it it didn't fit. I don't remember the Jericho stuff funnyfaces is talking about (I remember the feud, not the matches), but, yeah, good example if true. It's a revenge brawl - why slap that shit on it? Bret Hart doing a revenge brawl will just try to knock the crap of you for 20 minutes. There are similarities b/w Hart and Malenko but I think they're also really, really, really different.
> 
> ...





Were you thinking of Rey?

Or wrong event?

Rey took on Malenko at HH 96, so not sure the match you're reffering to.

I do love those Rey-Malenko PPV matches at GAB 96 and HH 96, 4.5 each.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah, oops, it was World War 3.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Yeah1993 said:


> Yeah, oops, it was World War 3.



Was curious as I hadn't watched that in a long time.

Usually I check out the Rey match from that event with Dragon, which is unbelievable.

I started watching this and they both did what you said a couple of minutes in, series of "look at me" moves then it's Hilarious when they both go to do the "kick up" spot after a double missed DROPKICK attempt Malenko doesen't land and botches his own kick up landing on a single knee. Psychosis shakes his head side to side and the crowd remain dead.

Was pretty funny. That was about the end of me watching that...


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think I might add that Rey/Malenko HH 96 match as a Malenko bout that I did not enjoy. I don't recall Rey being too bad in it, but Dean was on offense for too long. And to make things worse, I don't recall any focus or reason behind anything he did to Mysterio. I liked the last few minutes of that match, but I guess I can see how that match could support Yeah1993's thesis. Of course by December, Malenko happens to magically turn face and put on the match of his career against Ultimo Dragon. I am also in love with his match with Bret. In particular, the way Malenko sold that leg was phenomenal. Every prospective wrestler should watch that match to learn from Malenko. And then they all should watch the Eddie match and scoff at what they witnessed.

Psicosis. I like what I've seen from him in ECW/WCW, but the folks at PWO rave over his work in AAA during the mid-90s. I really only recall a couple singles matches he had that I've seen (vs. Mysterio and vs. El Hijo del Santo) and both were basically botchfests. What would be a better indicator of Psicosis' ability during his prime?

EDIT: Ok I might be hallucinating, but I faintly recall Psicosis in a TLC match in Mexico. If Rah is around here somewhere, he can clarify for me.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Definitely in a TLC years and years back for Perros Del Mal promotion. Guerra de Titanes 2011 had him in a tables match that had a fuckload of chairs. Not sure if I remember a ladder, though. He was meant to be in a TLC at that year's Triplemania but would not be a part of it due to injury (giving us the ever terrible Electroshock as a replacement). He was kayfabe suspended for like a quarter of the year following a run-in trying to take his spot back. 

Was it AAA (six-sided ring) or a standard ring? AAA use tables and chairs so indiscriminately I cannot pinpoint whether it's a TLC, a ladder match or just a bog standard TV match that you're thinking of. Also want to say Psicosis/Rey did that in 2001 in Tijuana but I think that match may have just been a standard match. Goes by the name Nicho el Millonario now. I bet there's an obvious answer and I'm over thinking past it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

There's the ridiculous match with Ultraman where Psic IIRC moonsaults from the top of a ladder and lands front-first onto concrete. Match is a fuckin trainwreck. Might be the best possibly-bad match of all time.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Yep, that's the match he's probably thinking of.






Dammit. At least I had Tijuana right.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That definitely is the match I was thinking of.

Dammit, now Yeah1993 is a premium member. Guess I'm the only regular left.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Resurrect the beast...

Sat down and watched Austin/HHH 3SOH last night with a buddy - first time I'd seen it since it happened I think. Match is very good, and yet it ticks a lot of boxes that take away from matches (for me). For all the grief I hear about "this isn't believable" or the more eloquent "breaks my suspension of disbelief" for matches that involve size/weight differences or excessive choreography, I'm surprised I never hear "calling a spot" as one of those things. Austin/HHH, especially in the first fall, is so fecking rife with blatant talking to each other that it's a bit grating. What's that? Gonna do a DDT, you say? Now cover? Sometimes it's minor, but it was borderline out of control in this. Also, HHH BLATANTLY blades himself again after the final fall - in full view of the camera. I'm not big on blading - right time, right match, whatever. Austin takes one glancing blow with the barbed wire 2x4 and is squirting blood? Everyone has AIDS, whatever. But right to the camera - _after the match?_ Much too much. Also, the sledge... It's a great looking, iconic weapon, but in practice? It pump-handle slams my suspension of disbelief. WHY DOES NO ONE MENTION HIS HAND COVERING THE BUSINESS END?! Used to drive me up the wall. There are other moments as well that do this but "calling spots" "blading" and "neutered weapon shots" are rarely, if ever mentioned in the same breath as "not realistic enough" when describing those qualities. And that's a shame. Could I be doing the dreaded nitpick shuffle? Maybe, but when I hear two guys talking to/checking on each other in the middle of 3 Stages of Hell...idk, it feels wrong, and I'm not being caught up in the emotion. The match is also too long - I mean, it's epic and all, but both guys are just beat headed into the cage and it was the fall I found least enjoyable. Other than that?

Was damn good, actually:lol HHH is a great heel, and takes a few great shots. Nasty bumps on the outside, an amazing over the top shitcan, and takes the mounted punches like a champ. It's like he invented "feed me more" where Austin is just cloud 9 baby face, getting everything in to the wild excitement of the crowd. The first and second fall are quite good as a whole, and really enjoyed it. The finish was okay. Didn't really have a problem with it, other than the obvious hand/hand contact with the sledge. It was good; exciting.* *****


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Yeah, I really don't expect anyone to ever like the same matches I do. Especially if I have a match at 5 Stars (as that is one of my 13) I'll just never understand the HATE it gets.

That whole review above looked like nitpicking and in all of that still rated it four stars.

It just had everything in my mind a match could ever want. Psychology. Brutality. Tremendous Feud. Hot Crowd. Gimmick Matches. The pacing for its length is absolutely off the chart's as well.

Anyway...like the poster above, I liked the first two falls the best. Nice review.


-------------------------------------------


What have people thought of Ambrose-Wyatt matches....


Mine:


Raw FCA **** 1/4

Summerslam Lumberjack ***

HIAC *** 3/4


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

****1/4 for all three.

1 FCA
2 Summerslam
3 HIAC


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

JustJoel said:


> Resurrect the beast...
> 
> Sat down and watched Austin/HHH 3SOH last night with a buddy - first time I'd seen it since it happened I think. Match is very good, and yet it ticks a lot of boxes that take away from matches (for me). For all the grief I hear about "this isn't believable" or the more eloquent "breaks my suspension of disbelief" for matches that involve size/weight differences or excessive choreography, I'm surprised I never hear "calling a spot" as one of those things. Austin/HHH, especially in the first fall, is so fecking rife with blatant talking to each other that it's a bit grating. What's that? Gonna do a DDT, you say? Now cover? Sometimes it's minor, but it was borderline out of control in this. Also, HHH BLATANTLY blades himself again after the final fall - in full view of the camera. I'm not big on blading - right time, right match, whatever. Austin takes one glancing blow with the barbed wire 2x4 and is squirting blood? Everyone has AIDS, whatever. But right to the camera - _after the match?_ Much too much. Also, the sledge... It's a great looking, iconic weapon, but in practice? It pump-handle slams my suspension of disbelief. WHY DOES NO ONE MENTION HIS HAND COVERING THE BUSINESS END?! Used to drive me up the wall. There are other moments as well that do this but "calling spots" "blading" and "neutered weapon shots" are rarely, if ever mentioned in the same breath as "not realistic enough" when describing those qualities. And that's a shame. Could I be doing the dreaded nitpick shuffle? Maybe, but when I hear two guys talking to/checking on each other in the middle of 3 Stages of Hell...idk, it feels wrong, and I'm not being caught up in the emotion. The match is also too long - I mean, it's epic and all, but both guys are just beat headed into the cage and it was the fall I found least enjoyable. Other than that?
> 
> Was damn good, actually:lol HHH is a great heel, and takes a few great shots. Nasty bumps on the outside, an amazing over the top shitcan, and takes the mounted punches like a champ. It's like he invented "feed me more" where Austin is just cloud 9 baby face, getting everything in to the wild excitement of the crowd. The first and second fall are quite good as a whole, and really enjoyed it. The finish was okay. Didn't really have a problem with it, other than the obvious hand/hand contact with the sledge. It was good; exciting.* *****



Well you arent the only one with that view, Austin said on his podcast that he tried to rewatch that match to do one of his play by play commentary deals where he discusses the match while watching it, and he got maybe 5 minutes into it and was so pissed about all the spots he blew and the sloppiness that he had to turn it off. I've voiced my opinion on that match enough in here, I rate it the same as you did, and in general I enjoy it. But you weren't the only one turned off by the sloppy work/obvious talking, Austin himself admitted he hates his performance in that match.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

One of my highest rated Tag Matches from the NWA in good quality.


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xz...express-vs-rock-roll-express-wrestlewar_sport

-----------


*02/25/90* _NWA/WCW WrestleWar 1990; Wild Thing: Rock N' Roll Express (Ricky Morton and Robert Gibson) vs Midnight Express(Bobby Eaton and Stan Lane) (w/James E Cornette) _ 



"These teams have met more times then Hello Dolly on Broadway...Stan...What day is this?" 

"The Day the MUSIC died..."

-_James E Cornette and Stan Lane Pre-Match Promo with Gordon Solie_


---------------------


-From the popular Greensboro Colliseum in Greensboro, NC...for Wrestlewar 90;Wild Thing....02/25/90


-Jim Ross in his NWA Prime on commentary. I'm curious is Funker is the color guy, it sounds like him.

-Nick Patrick the official.

White turnbuckles, and ropes Blue, White, Yellow in order from top to bottom. A blue canvas, makes this match attractive to the eye visually.

Ah ya gotta love James E in this match.
This is arguably the best clash in the many, MANY tag team matches they had together. It's certtainly the one I rank the best.

Crowd is hot like they are for most of the matches they had. Perhaps no two teams blend together more then these two in North American Wrestling.

Jim Cornette does the usual "PUT EM UP" making himself look like a GOOF.

Some Sweet moves by Stan Lane (no pun intended) and Ricky Morton in the first few minutes.

Ricky Morton with some fantastic Steamboat-like Arm-Drag's, to Bobby Eaton early on.

Crowd heavily into it chanting Rock N' Roll, Rock N' Roll...Cornette up to his dirty tactics pulling a foot of Rock N' Roll any chance he gets...Ross says on Commentary just give him the racket and send him home.

Perhaps what's best about these teams outsaide their impeccable tag team chemistry as these four were clearly made for each other, is the pacing of the contests. Both teams keep the entertainment going even in spots where we wait for the hot tag to Morton or Gibson. Both Stan and Bobby Eaton cut off their half of the ring and methodically take apart these guys which makes Jim Cornette on the outside happy. 

Ross of course always points this tag team strategy out which helps the viewer understand what the Midnight Express were all about.

Definitely hard to keep up with the frequent tags but that's another element that make the series between these two so great.

This thread is has a Bobby Eaton reference so Might as well pimp his greatness.

Loved Beautiful Bobby's exchanges with Mullet Man Ricky Morton in the center of the ring taking a break of the usual tag team routine, and go for a brawl in the center of the dance, in the middle of the match.

Eaton and Morton charge towards each other and take one another over the ropes together falling to the floor.

Back in Midnight takes control as Eaton methodially takes apart Morton in their hald, and Cornette uses his racket end to drive into the throat of Ricky Morton.

After that beautiful double team offense by Bobby and Stan as a drop-toehold drops Ricky as Lane drops him, and Eaton delivers the elbow. Textbook double team tag team offense. 

Textbook suplex as well, straight freom the book. More frequent tags by Midnight Express who I thought always was just one step ahead of Rock N' Roll. Both two of the greatest teams ever, and Rock N' Roll usually went over to make the crowds happy, but I always thought Midnight were as mentioned one step ahead.

Morton on the shoulder of Bobby Eaton and he drops him throat first onto the steel barricade, of course Cornette is all smiles as he slaps Morton on the outside. Ross calls it the ultimate insult. Mentally it's humiliating he says. A ring-post shot from Bobby to Morton. Lane almost pins Ricky Morton after all the damage but out of no where he comes back with a beautiful sunset flip even though the ref was ditained by Cornette on purpose. Lane then blatantly chokes Morton.

Blind tag, no one does it better then the Midnight Express and a neck-breaker. Morton needs the hot tag that the fans love oh so much to Robert Gibson.

The usual formula between these two, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it. This is the perfect example of how their forumla should go here in early 1990.

Starting the 90's in style after all their practice together from Mid-South all the way to the NWA in the 1980's.

Morton dazed and is now taunted by Eaton as he yells "GET UP BOIII"! A huge impact move to Morton, the DDT and a headlock....

In the end Robert Gibson put away Sweet Stan Lane at 19:31 to give Rock N' Roll the victory in an epic tag team contest almost 20 minutes in Length!

High splash and Morton still kicks out.

These two had the others scouted and knew what the others were about to do making this match come off so authentic and the strategic brilliance is a sight to see.

I can dig the usual tag team formula with the Heels controlling the pace looking for that hot tag because it's done so well here.

Tremendous wouldn't be doing it justice. This match represents everything I loved about NWA tags.

I'm going through ALL MY 4.75 MATCHES ON MY LIST. THIS WAS A TREAT. Haven't watched it since 2008.





***** 3/4*


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think that Wrestlewar 1990 match is the only Rock n Roll vs. Midnight Express match that I like. Turned out to be one for the ages thankfully. But I've seen so much of their other work in JCP, Mid-South, WCCW, etc. and I just get disappointed every time I see them wrestle.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I think that Wrestlewar 1990 match is the only Rock n Roll vs. Midnight Express match that I like. Turned out to be one for the ages thankfully. But I've seen so much of their other work in JCP, Mid-South, WCCW, etc. and I just get disappointed every time I see them wrestle.



I know this same exact feeling, for instance while watching the mid-south DVD and seeing both the matches on there I was just all "That's it...?" So much to choose from, and they chose these two. Sure enough I watched them again and appreciated them a lot more. Still no where near classic matches or anything.

I think expectation has a lot to do with it.

A lot of people go into matches with names they've heard of and expect perfection or to be blown away. I always keep the time matches happened into account when judging matches as well.

I have been underwhelmed by a lot of their matches and this one is one of three matches on my entire lengthy list. I would of orignally thought they'd have more but as you said, this one stands above.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Four major NXT events this year. All four have been outstanding.

EDIT: Good fucking lord! And somehow that event got even better.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just started Revolution, holy shit Steens pop was HUGE. And damn, fucking CJ Parker couldn't have a 5 minute match without breaking Steens nose, :lmao. Hell of a fun squash though, best sub 5 minute match of the year I say. KEVIN STEEN IS IN THE WWE AND ON TV, I AM HAPPY.

On to the next...

Edit: HOLY SHIT @ PRINCE'S ENTRANCE. Never seen that. And wow, the crowd chanting "marking out, marking out". Way to ruin it, shit heads.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Wow. Everyone NEEDS to see Zayn/Neville NXT: Revolution. This is now my current #3 for MotY, I have it at a healthy ****1/2. Everything was damn near flawless, Zayn was ZAYN, which means the best in the fucking world, and Neville finally clicked with him being the heel. I wasn't a fan of the bout these 2 had last year, and the match they had on NXT TV a few weeks ago was good but nothing special. This, this was fucking special. It doesn't top the classic he had with Cesaro at ArRival but it tops every singles match that occurred on the main roster this year, atleast IMO. The match itself is amazing, but just the entire last 5 minutes and ending are everything I could have hoped for. Zayn is the man.

NXT is just stacked to the effing gills with talent right now. Zayn, Neville, Owens/Steen, KENTA/Otami, Devitt/Balor, Baron Corbin, Tyler Breeze, Tyson Kidd (eh). Every show this year has been great but this one takes the cake.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The scary part is that they still haven't unleashed Solomon Crowe, who you can argue to be the best overall talent of the bunch.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Just watched Takeover. I kind of wish I had kept up with NXT more this year, but I watched the last few shows and they managed to get me excited for the special. 

The undercard was strong, everything was generally good and I was quite impressed with the women.

The main event was fantastic and hella emotional. Steen coming out to embrace Zayn almost had me tearing up having witnessed some of their history together. But by god the very end of the show almost made me vomit with excitement. Can't wait to see a match between them in a WWE ring.

I'll definitely be keeping up with NXT from now on.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Zayn vs. Neville was great (Y)

It had great storytelling with Sami being conflicted on whether to stick by his morals and play fair or take a cheap shot to win the championship. It had exciting back and forth action with Neville's superkick + reverse huricanrana and Zayn's tornado DDT being sick as fuck to see. The crowd was hot for this match, especially for Zayn. HOLY FUCK is the guy over, and it was awesome to see Sami get his moment. WWE may have been guilty with a lot of fuckery this year, but it did have some good moments with this being one of them. It's definitely up there with Bryan's WWE title win at Mania as great, feel good moments this year.

NXT has been killing it with the live broadcasts and this was no different. Why can't the main shows be this good?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Just finished with Steen's debut match. How surreal is it seeing Drake Younger put on gloves because someone's bleeding?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Fucking CJ Parker fpalm


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

The sequence to get to the blue thunder bomb was weak, didn't like the first ref bump and I wanted maybe one more big spot but Neville/Zayn was awesome.

My favorite match this year tho is still Zayn/Cesaro.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Thoughts as the show goes, as I'm too lazy to write up a lengthy post



*~*Genuinely thought Aiden English was Cesaro at first. That excited me in hoping we might get Kallisto/Cesaro. That's gotta happen at some point, though, right? If we're not getting Cesaro/Rey then we may as well get the second rate best thing.


*~*Someone getting massively over because of a squash streak? Who would have thought that would work? Not Vince.


*~*If Hideo's gonna come out as a two-bit Mortal Kombat cosplay, it should rather have been Sub-Zero than Scorpion. At least that fits the warmth of the reception that he's getting for his ring work. Throw a kick, motherfucker. Match was alright, though it did lose me a couple times when I was more focused on my Whatsapp conversations than the face in peril work. The Ascension aren't transcendary, but I cannot really get the hate that they receive. They're really not bad in delivering a beatdown and isolating their opponents to build to that eventual hot tag. Thought it looked too over-satured with action during the GTS attempt, but I suppose it needed to be to make a quick break of it before he could hit.


*~*What the hell is with Charlotte doing rolls and acrobatic things to intimidate her opponent? Sasha's shirt was a good twist. It's great to see how well developed NXT's divas characters are compared to their main roster peers. There's difference beyond what they wear, and they wrestle to those strengths. The wrestling may still be rather poor but at least it envelops the audience with the character work. Charlotte's still green as goose shit, though.


*~*I wasn't too into the main event outside of the bigger moments but it's SAMI FUCKING ZAYN WINNING A TITLE. FUCK YOUR STAR RATINGS. First Daniel Bryan and now Sami Zayn. Who said good guys never prosper? HayleySabin's Christmas just came early.



Best show under the WWE banner since the last NXT event. You could probably get away with watching the first ten minutes and then the last half hour but, with that being said, the rest of the show is hardly a waste of time.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

****3/4 for Neville-Zayn and MOTY. INCREDIBLE match. Zayn showing why he's the best wrestler in the company and IMO Neville actually outperformed him here with his best WWE performance.

I'm guessing Owens takes the belt from Zayn at the next Takeover and Zayn debuts on Raw the night after Mania.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Zayn is champion. All is right in the world. Merry Christmas.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

th9oughts?


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

*Sting vs Scott Hall World Title Match WCW/nWo uNcEnSoReD 1998 * - _**** 1/2 *_


I always thought this was one of Hall's best matches, especially in WCW. It's short and ultimately the action never drags as a result. I thought of it at the time as a breth of fresh air from Hollywood Hogan.




*Adrian Neville vs Sami Zayn World Title Match WWE-NXT 12/11/14 * - _***** 1/4*_


I am so thankful for NXT. I really think it was a great idea and fans are loving it.

This match in paticular I just added to my star ratings list.

I'll also add any matches from TLC this weekend of course to the list if any of them make it. I see three matches that have potential to be borderline classic's this Sunday, I hope they deliver.


*Rollins-Cena Table's
Wyatt-Ambrose TLC
Ziggler-Harper Ladder*



I hope at least one of them goes on my list, time will tell....gimmick PPV's are hit and miss IMO.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wow, Neville/Zayn was pretty fucking phenomenal. Thought it was gonna be hard for it to top the Fatal 4-Way or much less Cesaro/Zayn, but... it did... NOT top Cesaro/Zayn. Definitely topped the 4-way, however. Every little touch about it was perfectly booked. Examples being the beggining w/Zayn staring down Neville under a rainstorm of OLÉ chants, symbolism of him possibly competing in his final match in WWE/NXT, to how Neville wrestled the whole match w/a great touch of conflicted and desperate. There were some flaws to me - started out a bit slow and there was a moment that bugged me in the middle, when Zayn stared down Neville who was on the outside and about to be counted out w/Zayn doing nothing about it, which would save his career if Neville did get DQ'ed, but Zayn wanted the title more than anything so it's still a bit off to me - but regardless, pretty much everything else about the match was perfect. I'd give it ****1/2.

The whole show was great, too. As expected w/NXT. Charlotte/Sasha was also pretty cool, if for Sasha's badass performance alone. DEVITT'S ENTRANCE THO. Match was good, btw. STEEN was quite cool too.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Thought the little touches they included that made you doubt the before-predictable Owens turn were great - The watermark at the end, every single roster member coming out rather than just Owens (INCLUDING CALLIHAN~) as well as they promotion of Owen's interview next week - Suggesting that we had already seen the last of him in any significant role mid way through the show. It's the little stuff like that that I can really appreciate and makes SENSE. 

I'll say it again though: CJ Parker fpalm

I also feel REALLY sorry for Hideo :lol Yeah the guy hasn't been delivering but now he's just the biggest afterthought, undeservedly. Hopefully for him, they take the focus off of the two as a duo and share it equally, at least giving him a chance to develop and earn his keep.

The first ref bump really took me out of the main event for a short while, but it didn't take long to get back in to it. **** 1/4 for that. Sasha/Charlotte was MUCH better than the Natalya match, IMO, although I think I'm the biggest critic of the Natty match. Charlotte has had a great year, tbh and I was a huge naysayer at the start. More Bayley tho pls.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Feelings on these three Davey Boy Smith matches?


*Vs. Bret "Hitman" Hart IC TITLE MATCH: 8/29/92 Summerslam, Wembley Stadium* - ***** 3/4*

(Mostly because Bret really did a fantastic job with everything in this match.)


*Vs. Bret "Hitman" Hart WWF TITLE MATCH: 12/15/95 IYH Season's Beatings* - ***** 3/4*


(Much better of a match. Loved how barbaric it was for its time in the WWF)


*Vs. Owen Hart EUROPEAN TITLE MATCH: 03/3/97 WWF Raw is War from Germany * - ***** 3/4*


Best Raw Match Ever.



These are 3 of my 52 matches at *4.75 (**** 3/4)* rating.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I don't consider Zayn/Neville to be a MOTYC but it's still a great match nonetheless. Really picked up towards the end. Lots of energy, lots of excitement just an all-round fun match. ****3/4*


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

*Matches of the Year 2014:*


So Far...We do have TLC...


But...



*1) MOTY- * -The Wyatt Family (Bray Wyatt, Erick Rowan and Luke Harper) vs The Shield (Roman Reigns, Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins) 6 Man Tag Team Match WWE Elimination Chamber February 23 2014 ***** 3/4*



Then...


-Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan vs Batista Triple Threat WWE World Heavyweight Championship Match Wrestlemania 30 April 6 2014 ***** 1/2*


-The Authority (Randy Orton, Triple H, Kane) vs The Shield (Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose) Six Man Tag Team Match WWE Extreme Rules May 4 2014 ***** 1/2*


-Bray Wyatt vs John Cena Last Man Standing Match WWE Payback June 1 2014 ***** 1/2*


-Seth Rollins vs Dean Ambrose vs Rob Van Dam vs Kofi Kingston vs Dolph Ziggler vs Jack Swagger WWE Heavyweight Championship Contract MITB Ladder Match WWE Money in the Bank June 29 2014 ***** 1/2*



-Bray Wyatt vs Daniel Bryan WWE Royal Rumble January 26 2014 ***** 1/4*



-John Cena vs Antonio Cesaro WWE Raw Feruary 17 2014 ***** 1/4*



-The Wyatt Family (Bray Wyatt, Erick Rowan and Luke Harper) vs The Shield (Roman Reigns, Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins) 6 Man Tag Team Match WWE Monday Night Raw March 3 2014 ***** 1/4*



-Daniel Bryan vs Triple H Winner goes to Main Event WWE Wrestlemania 30 April 7 2014 ***** 1/4*



-Evolution (Triple H, Dave Batista and Randy Orton) vs The Shield (Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose) Six Man Elimination No Holds Barred Tag Team Match WWE Payback June 1 2014 ***** 1/4*



-Adrian Neville vs Sami Zayn vs Tyler Breeze vs Tyson Kidd NXT World Title Fatal Fourway Match WWE NXT September 11 2014 ***** 1/4*



-Stardust and Goldust vs The Uso's World Tag Title Match WWE Night of Champions September 21 2014 ***** 1/4*


-Sheamus vs Antonio Cesaro US Title Match WWE Night of Champions September 21 2014 ***** 1/4*


-Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho WWE Night of Champions September 21 2014 ***** 1/4*


-Dean Ambrose vs Seth Rollins Hell in a Cell Match WWE Hell in a Cell October 26 2014 ***** 1/4*


-Dolph Ziggler vs Tyson Kidd vs Antonio Cesaro Triple Threat Elimination IC Title Match WWE Smackdown! November 14 2014 ***** 1/4*


-Team Cena (Dolph Ziggler, John Cena, Erick Rowan, The Big Show, Ryback) vs Team Authority (Seth Rollins, Luke Harper, Mark Henry, Rusev and Corporate Kane) Ten Man Elimination Match WWE Survivor Series November 23 2014 ***** 1/4*


-Adrian Neville vs Sami Zayn NXT Championship Match WWE NXT TakeOver: R Evolution December 11 2014 ***** 1/4*


-Antonio Cesaro vs Dolph Ziggler IC Title Match WWE Smackdown! 10/24/14 ******


-Dolph Ziggler vs Randy Orton IC Title October 20 2014 ******


-John Cena vs Antonio Cesaro WWE Raw February 18 2014 ******


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

As bad as this year might have been in the eyes of most fans, I think I have more ****+ matches listed for this year than any other. Well maybe not 2013. But when things were good this year, they were really good. Shame that things have been so volatile.


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

*WWE NXT Takeover: R-Evolution
(December 11, 2014)
*
Kevin Owens vs CJ Parker *

*NXT Tag Team Championship*
Lucha Dragons (Sin Cara & Kalisto) (c) vs The Vaudevillains (Aiden English & Simon Gotch) *3/4

Tye Dillinger vs Baron Corbin N/R

The Ascension (Konnor & Viktor) vs Hideo Itami & Finn Bálor **3/4

*NXT Women's Championship*
Charlotte (c) vs Sasha Banks ***1/4

*NXT Championship*
Adrian Neville (c) vs Sami Zayn **** (Fantastic story inside the ring. The referee's selling is very questionable)

Overall Rating: 7.25


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

11 Pipers Piping said:


> *~*I wasn't too into the main event outside of the bigger moments but it's SAMI FUCKING ZAYN WINNING A TITLE. FUCK YOUR STAR RATINGS. First Daniel Bryan and now Sami Zayn. Who said good guys never prosper? HayleySabin's Christmas just came early.


Just finished the show. I don't have enough words to talk about the moment. So much emotion, my stars.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

*Bray Wyatt vs Sheamus WWE Raw June 16th 2014 :*


What an awesome fucking brawl Sheamus and Bray Wyatt had 6/16/14 on Raw.

I didn't see this as I was busier in the Summer until now.

Such a rugged match.

Wyatt delivers some of the stiffest blows I have seen in a long time to Sheamus. 

Sheamus counters with more of the same.

One of the most entertaining things I've seen from Sheamus.

Wyatt has had one hell of a year.


**** 3/4*




---------------------



*Michaels-Angle * - *Vengeance 2005*


This match flows so much better then the original. 

All the original had going for it was that it was the first time they had met.

It was Wrestlemania.

The Climax was suspensful....Will Shawn tap...? Yes.


That was all fine and everything but this match doesen't suffer from the same slow beginning that one did.

Even when they had the feeling out process in this one, it was logical and not just a weardown move.

Angle focused on the bad arm of Michaels and Shawn knew he would do that but then to throw HBK off he did a leg-sweep and worked on the leg.

Just when Shawn escaped with big moves, Angle then suplexed him on the table and Shawn hurt his back. 

Angle then worked on the back and powerbombed Michaels into the turnbuckle. What a vicious fucking spot that was.

One of the best matches Angle has had when it comes to overall psychology and execution.

Shawn wins with the Superkick but this is a Classic on a Classic event.


2nd match of the night to get a 4.5 star rating, as the HIAC on this night is also fantastic.




***** 1/2*


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> As bad as this year might have been in the eyes of most fans, I think I have more ****+ matches listed for this year than any other. Well maybe not 2013. But when things were good this year, they were really good. Shame that things have been so volatile.


Without even looking at my comprehensive lists to check forgotten gems and I haven't seen much NXT here is off my immediate memory four star matches:
Shield Wyatt *****
HHH/Bryan ****1/2
Cesaro/Zayn ****1/2
Bryan/Bray Rumble ****1/3
Cesaro/Cena Feb. ****1/4
Ambrose/Rollins Raw No DQ ****1/4
Evo/Shield Extreme Rules ****1/4
NXT Fourway ****1/4
Orton/Bryan/Batista ****1/4
Cena/Wyatt Mania ****
I personally have Brock/Cena Summerslam at ****
Shield/Wyatts 2 ****
Elimination Chamber ****
MITB Ladder match ****
Personally, Kane/Bryan gets **** from me (albeit void of psychology, spacing and whatnot just sheer fun)
Ambrose/Rollins LJ match ****
Cesaro/Cena 2nd Raw match ****
Bray/Cena Payback **** (obviously public opinion is very split on that one)

That is 18 matches I got off the top of my head as someone who doesn't closely follow NXT and hasn't seen the acclaimed latest special yet where apparently Neville and Zayn had a barnburner. I haven't even cross checked my lists to see if I ranked one of the solid Sheamus/Cesaro matches at four. There is alot of stuff that ranks as really good matches around ***1/2 in some cases ***3/4 (I consider 4 stars a great match outside of a classic) too off my head like the 3 on 4 SD match pre-chamber, the IC number one contender fourway, Dean/Bray's physical SD match, The non-mentioned Shield/Wyatts matches, probably some of them Uso/Wyyatt tags, Swagger/Rusev encounters, Christian/Bryan, the often unheralded Cesaro/Ziggler EC qualifier, Ziggs/Miz Summerslam, Dean/Cesaro No DQ, RVD/Rollins after MITB,Orton/Dean from RAW, Cesaro/Orton from SD and I'm sure if I look back the list could go on.* All in all, this has been when you tally it all up a damn fine ring year that has been vastly overshadowed by putrid booking, a series of untimely absences/injuries, a horrid lack of creative and horrible debacles at the main event level such as the failed Brock experiment, the near death of Bray Wyatt's career and Batista's return nearly ruining Mania. *


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

2014's had some excellent matches but its flaw comes in how shallow the pool has been. Think back to how busy this thread used to be, and it's obvious how stale and boring the product is. I assume some of that is down to how spoiled we were last year (between great TV wrestling and characters we were truly invested in), but the output has dramatically fallen since Wrestlemania. There's always that slump following the Big Daddy, that picks up around Summerslam, but this year has been a tough break for fans. Lucha's never picked up since the end of CMLL's En Busca De Idolo tourney. There's been top class matches, sure, and some I've yet to see that I'm sure will alter my top 5, but the bulk just isn't there. AAA finally became watchable and engaging but it's still too sports-oriented fluff to be truly good in match quality. That said there was a legit great match that ended Heroes Inmortales. Lucha Underground is fun but there's not enough run time to have a long enough match to be a stand out.

Great times to be entertained, from unusual sources, but not if you're a match quality guy like myself.




That said... I'm comparing my top 5 from this year to that of last year's and I'm battling to pick a winner. Both are class.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Compared to 2013, '14 has been underwhelming. Especially after that great year start, with February turning out absolutely EPIC. But I'd be lying if there weren't a shitload of really good matches, however.

The ****+ stuff of 2014 for me:

Cesaro/Zayn ****3/4 (MOTY)
Shield/Wyatts EC ****3/4
Neville/Zayn Revolution ****1/2
Team Cena/Team Authority ****1/2
HHH/Bryan ****1/4
Cena/Cesaro I ****1/4
NXT Fatal 4-Way ****1/4
Rollins/Ambrose FCA ****1/4
Shield/Evolution ER ****1/4
Bryan/Wyatt RR ****1/4
Shield/Wyatts ME ****
Orton/Batista/Bryan ****
Shield/Wyatts March ****
Orton/Bryan Feb ****
Cena/Lesnar SS ****
MITB ****
Elimination Chamber ****
Zayn/Breeze TO ****

And then a bunch of ***3/4-***1/2 along the way. Not too shabby, quite frankly.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

looks like i should check out some nxt stuff


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

1 Sami Zayn V Adrian Neville NXT Takeover: R Evolution ****3/4
2 The Shield V The Wyatt's Elimination Chamber ****3/4
3 Team Cena V Team Authority Survivor Series ****1/2
4 John Cena V Bray Wyatt Wrestlemania ****1/2
5 John Cena V Cesaro Raw Feb ****1/2
6 John Cena V Bray Wyatt Payback ****1/2
7 Daniel Bryan V Triple H Wrestlemania ****1/2
8 Sami Zayn V Cesaro NXT Takeover: Arrival ****1/2
9 Daniel Bryan V Batista V Randy Orton Wrestlemania ****1/4
10 Dean Ambrose V Seth Rollins FCA ****1/4
11 Dean Ambrose V Seth Rollins Summerslam ****1/4
12 Dean Ambrose V Bray Wyatt Survivor Series ****1/4
13 The Shield V Evolution Extreme Rules ****1/4
14 Dean Ambrose V Seth Rollins Hell In A Cell ****1/4
15 Daniel Bryan V Bray Wyatt Royal Rumble ****1/4
16 Adrian Neville V Sami Zayn V Tyler Breeze V Tyson Kidd NXT Takeover: Fatal 4 Way ****1/4
17 Brock Lesnar V John Cena Summerslam ****1/4
18 MITB ladder match ****
19 Elimination Chamber match ****
20 The Shield V The Wyatt's Main Event ****
21 The Shield V The Wyatt's Raw 3/3 ****
22 John Cena V Brock Lesnar Night Of Champions ****
23 The Shield V Evolution Payback ****
24 Cesaro V Sheamus Payback ****
25 Randy Orton V Daniel Bryan Raw ***3/4


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Watched the NXT special last night - what a show. Best show of the year for match quality. Both tag matches were excellent - after the crowd was counting the seconds of the Corbin match, the "marking out" chant didn't feel out of left field:lol But they more than made up for it, crazy raucous bunch of smarks that they are.

Owens showing some toughness in the short match was nice to see as well - looked like he was expecting a right, and got a left instead. Zayn's moment was good, and the cursing had me :lmao But match of the night? I'll take Charlotte/Sasha for $500, Alex. 

That was such a great match - as good as I've seen this year male or female. The heat was a bit off early, but once the rhythm set in, it was a fucking *joy* to watch. Sasha is so damn tough - I'm sure her day after sucked tremendously. They both showed so much heart and looked to be the class of the entire women's division. I don't think another Diva's match is within a country mile this year. The thing I always wondered about Sasha - because she's quite physical/agressive in there - is can she take it as well as she dishes out? That was answered in resounding fashion. That front suplex from the top, after everything else she'd taken, proved her toughness and showed no fear. Zero miedo - what a tough mother. And Charlotte? Shit was fierce. I was scared for her that she was gonna let an f- or b-bomb slip just looking at her body language and facial expressions. What a war. *****1/2* Yeah, it was that damn good. Top 3-5 WWE MOTY for me. Really impressed.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Thought I was overrating it at *** haha.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'll wait until after TLC to post a final MOTY list... sure we may have another fantastic match between then and January 1st, but I think both Ambrose/ Wyatt and Ziggler/ Haprer have potential to be MOTYC, so we'll see what happens.

As far as NXT goes, watched the special and enjoyed it. I wasn't as blown away by it as some in this thread. Main Event was awesome, Women's Title match was good, Owens debut was really cool, and I don't know he name of the guy... but you know that guy who won and apparently has been winning in under a minute... I'll call him squash-match guy for now. Liked his entrance and the match was decent itself. The staredown afterwards with that other guy was kind of awkward to me.

I'd give Zayn/Neville ****, awesome match. I think I still prefer Zayn/Cesaro as far as NXT matches go (****1/4 for that), but I really enjoyed the main event.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I've had Mickie/Trish WM 22 as the best Divas match in WWE history for going on 8 1/2 years now....it's finally been supplanted by Sasha/Charlotte. It was THAT good IMO, I've NEVER been that invested in a WWE Divas match. Never. That was a fucking pro wrestling match, something that Divas matches RARELY are these days. I loved it.

While Cesaro/Zayn ArRival is still my MotY, Zayn/Neville Revolution was more emotional for me and had the BEST ending of any match I've seen, yes even as good as the ending to the WM 30 main event. I was so unbelievably happy for Zayn, he is truly the best and deserves to have the spotlight be on him. I don't know who is the more natural baby face, Steamboat, Rey, or Zayn. That's how highly I think of Sami, to put him in the same class as those 2 other legends. He just amazes me every time I watch him.

So yea, infinity stars for Sami winning the NXT title.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

So what are the *best Ladie's matches* from North America.


]We'll say in the last 20 years since 1995....




*Top Diva's Matches Last 20 Years (95-15) (Just WWE and WCW)* *(NO TNA)* -I realize TNA has produced a lot of great knockouts matches but I want to know for possible matches included on my list, and I don't include TNA.



---------------------------------

*ADD TO MY LIST BELOW PLEASE:* 

(need a better idea to what I'm missing)

------



Bull Nakano and Hokotu vs Cutie Suzuki and Mayumi Ozaki Ladies's Tag Match -WCW World War 3 _11/26/95_ ****** 





Trish Stratus vs Stephanie McMahon -No Way Out _ 02/17/01_ **** 1/4*




Trish Stratus vs Victoria -Raw Chicago Street Fight _01/27/03 _ **** 1/4*




Trish Stratus vs Lita -Raw _12/6/04_ **** 3/4*




Mickie James vs Trish -WM 22 _04/2/06_ **** 1/2*




Trish Stratus vs Lita -Unforgiven _09/17/06 _ **** 1/4*



Beth Phoenix vs Katie Lea -WWE-OVW Ladder Match _12/23/06 _ ******



Mickie James vs Michelle McCool -TLC _12/13/09_ **** 1/2*





Beth Phoenix and Natalya vs Michelle McCool and Layla -TLC Table's Match _12/19/10 _ **** 1/2*



Beth Phoenix vs Natalya -Smackdown! _ 09/28/12 _ **** 3/4*




A.J. Lee vs Kaitlyn -Payback _06/16/13_ * *** 1/2*




A.J. Lee vs Natalya -TLC _ 12/15/13_ **** 1/4 * 




Natalya vs A.J. Lee -Main Event _03/11/14_ **** 1/2*




Natalya vs Charlotte -WWE-NXT _05/29/14_ ******




Bayley vs Charlotte -WWE-NXT _11/11/14_ **** 1/2*




Charlotte vs Sasha Banks -WWE-NXT _12/11/14_ **** 1/2*






I am missing a shit load of matches so please add to this.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Honestly Charlotte/Sasha, as good as it was (***1/2 for me) and w/Sasha's performance of the year contender for the WWE women's division to aid it, was still only the 2nd best NXT Divas match. I still hold Charlotte/Bayley to a higher regard, if just because Bayley the underdog was every bit as good (if not better) as Sasha the bitch, and Charlotte clicked far better as a heel than a babyface to me.

NXT PPV divas stuff:
1) Charlotte/Bayley, ***1/2
2) Charlotte/Sasha, ***1/2
3) Paige/Emma, ***1/4
4) Natalya/Charlotte, ***1/4 (most overrated MOTY afaic)


----------



## El Dylan (Jun 28, 2011)

My list of ****+ matches this year.

Ranked by numbers of stars and then chronologically

****1/2
Bray Wyatt/Luke Harper/Erick Rowan vs Dean Ambros/Seth Rollins/Roman Reigns
Cesaro vs Sami Zayn
Triple H vs Daniel Bryan
John Cena/Dolph Ziggler/Big Show/Erick Rowan/Ryback vs Seth Rollins/Rusev/Mark Henry/Luke Harper/Kane
Sami Zayn vs Adrian Neville

****1/4
Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton vs Batista
Triple H/Batista/Randy Orton vs Dean Ambrose/Seth Rollins/Roman Reigns
John Cena vs Bray Wyatt (Last Man Standing)
Seth Rollins vs Dolph Ziggler vs Dean Ambrose vs Kofi Kingston vs Rob Van Dam vs Jack Swagger (MITB)
Wyatt Family vs The Usos (2 out of 3 Falls)
John Cena vs Brock Lesnar
Seth Rollins vs Dean Ambrose (Falls Counts Anywhere)

****
Bray Wyatt vs Daniel Bryan
Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan vs John Cena vs Sheamus vs Cesaro vs Christian (Elimination Chamber)
Seth Rollins vs Dean Ambrose (Lumberjack)
Dolph Ziggler vs Tyson Kidd vs Cesaro


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

machomark said:


> Beth Phoenix vs Natalya -Smackdown! _ 09/28/12 _ **** 3/4*


...

Well I have to see a review for this. I hope psychology is uttered four times.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

For me, it's:

1. Cesaro vs Sami Zayn NXT ArRival ****3/4
2. The Shield vs The Wyatt Family EC ****3/4
3. Sami Zayn vs Adrian Neville NXT Revolution ****1/2
4. Daniel Bryan vs Triple H WM 30 ****1/4
5. Cesaro vs John Cena Raw Feb. 2014 ****1/4

Compare that to 2013:

1. CM Punk vs Brock Lesnar SS *****
2. CM Punk vs The Undertaker WM 29 ****1/2
3. CM Punk vs John Cena Raw Feb. 2013 ****1/2
4. Daniel Bryan vs John Cena SS ****1/2
5. Christian vs ADR SS 2014 ****1/4 (tie)
5. Dolph Ziggler vs ADR Payback ****1/4 (tie)

Translation: Both top 5's are pretty equal, but 2013 as a whole blows 2014 out of the water for quality if we were to list all the matches that get ***+. Most of that is the incredible Shield run of tags, I'm still just the biggest fan of their tag run. Also, as much as it sucks not having Punk around, Sami has sorta taken his place as the guy who ALWAYS knocks it out of the park in big matches. Sami for prez.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

There was a moment in that Charlotte/Banks match where I turned to my buddy to comment on how awesome it was, and I had to snap my head back to the TV - "Did I just miss a T-Bone on Banks?!" Yep. Had to rewind that sucker. I have a rule for wrestling matches that I've adopted from my wife. _Her_ rule is that, for a movie to get **** consideration from her, she has to at least once laugh and cry during the movie. She cries during TV comericals, so this isn't as insurmountable as you might think. _My_ rule is that for me to consider rating it ****+, I need to at least once, literally come out of my seat marking. It's something you _feel_; an involuntary reaction. I can be jaded as the next - watched wrestling for years, yada. That match had me invested - as physical a women's match as I've seen in ages. I really can't over-emphasize the grit shown by Sasha - if she's any heavier than 140lb, I'll eat my shoe, and the punishment she took unflinchingly just had me. That Electric Chair was perfect, stiff as all hell. Wonderful spear, dive, 22 more bumps, and she's cool as ice on the front suplex - a move that sends the fear knocking, even for a winded/beat veteran. No early hands, no knees, no feet, just beef and heart. I can't remember the last diva's match that did that - put that much on the line in one match, and executed all of it. I've been very high on Charlotte since seeing her again - she's already pretty much the best Diva on the roster. Every big match has been good, and her performances are better every time. Whatever she lacks, she's improving. The fire she had was intense - had me hook, line, sinker - she's the champ, dammit.

Sasha even took to being extra-bitchy when the heat was off early. It's almost a shame she wasn't credible enough to turn face for the match, but they were both made by the end of it. Charlotte/Banks CRUSHES Shield/Evolution, but there's no accounting for taste


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Not sure if I (or anybody here) talked properly about it, but for my surprise (I wasn't necessarily looking much forward to it, cause the Ascension aren't exactly the Young Bucks, and KENTA/Itami had been quite hit or miss by that point), Ascension/Team HYPE~! (ok, Devitt/Balor is worthy of it, quite enjoyed his work for a while now) turned out to be quite fine as well. Of course, not quite as good as Charlotte/Sasha or anywhere near the same universe as Neville/Zayn w/a personal rating of ***1/4 for me, but I thought it was gonna struggle to be *** at best, so turning out to be actually pretty good was a pleasant surprise.

Of course, it was quite flawed. Ascension's heat segment itself was quite on the dry side, and at some points, kinda boring. Then there's the fact that Hideo got basically to play sidekick to Balor, when in reality, it was HIS feud against the Ascension, and I'm sure he was more fueled to have revenge than Balor. Should've at least gotten the pin. And, although a minor flaw, I thought that the actual finish itself was a bit sad and flat to me... cause, you know, THAT tease had me hoping.

That being said, everything else about the match was right. Ascension... well, there's not a whole lot of positive about their performance aside of managing to keep up w/their adversaries. And, I'm sure this is looking at it WAY too much, but Itami getting beat up for 80% of his stance did kinda work on a story perspective due to him being the Ascension's main target to begin with. That's it, though. But for someone with a rep for being a bit spotty, Itami actually worked just fine as a FIP, and he did get to do THAT tease so there's that. Of course though, this was the total Finn Balor show and Jesus did he look like a star. From DAT ENTRANCE to the end, nothing wrong about his showing at all, quite frankly. The post-hot tag was nicely explosive and as, well, hot as I ever hoped it would be. And there's also the crowd, whose smarky excitement managed to help keeping my good interest.

So yeah, my in-depth thoughts on the Ascension's best match ever easily, and the #3 match of the best and most memorable NXT PPV of the year (yup, Arrival was finally topped in my books).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ascension were good. They know how to maul people. Kind of funny that people think they shouldn't do that when that's their gimmick. But you know, needs more moves. Or something that makes people on the internet type THAT/DAT. aka useless stuff. If anything, it was KENTA's lack of emoting that made it feel dry.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HAYLEY'S XMAS TWITTER NUDES said:


> Ascension were good. They know how to maul people. Kind of funny that people think they shouldn't do that when that's their gimmick. But you know, needs more moves. Or something that makes people on the internet type THAT/DAT. aka useless stuff. If anything, it was KENTA's lack of emoting that made it feel dry.


I'm not an Ascension fan but 100% agree that it was KENTA being an absolutely shit FIP in that match that caused it to feel dull/dry/boring etc. I mean he was legit awful. Ascension don't deserve blame for that, they just need to keep watching FoF tags from WCW and they will do just fine.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Does anyone think Roman Reigns has had a pretty decent year so far in singles matches. His matches with Seth Rollins, Alberto Del Rio, Kane LMS, CM Punk, Orton have all been around the 3 plus star mark.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Last Man Standing vs Kane was a joke. Didn't like the Orton stuff, although I felt Reigns did pretty well for himself at SummerSlam. Others, yeah, I'm pretty big on. The match vs Del Rio is his top prize to date. Great stuff.

I'd add in the Bray singles match from earlier in the year. Only did see it one time, but it worked.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

What do you have his match with ADR at? ***1/4 for me. Great little match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hennessey said:


> Does anyone think Roman Reigns has had a pretty decent year so far in singles matches. His matches with Seth Rollins, Alberto Del Rio, Kane LMS, CM Punk, Orton have all been around the 3 plus star mark.


I'm on the Reigns band wagon. I think they are doing a HORRIBLE job with how he is presented and booked, if they want him to be a universally loved/face of the company type baby face, but I genuinely like Reigns and hope he succeeds. The problem is, I strongly dislike the "super man" style booking he gets at times, I strongly dislike the company not letting him grow as a character organically and instead strapping the rocket booster to him and trying to make him the new John Cena (if the crap in dirtsheets is to be believed), and I REALLY wish the WWE would just take their time and let Reigns develop before forcing him into the main event of WM 31. He's got worlds of potential, and he's already a pretty decent performer, I just have this awful feeling WWE is going to ruin him.

I personally think WWE should have given him a good 1-2 year run as a mid/upper mid card heel before turning him face and having him win his first title at like WM 32. That would be ideal, and it would give him time to really hone his craft as a singles guy. They should follow the same booking pattern they did with The Rock, let him start catching fire as a baby face (like he was while feuding with Evolution) then right when he starts to get really hot, you switch him and make him "the Chosen One" Authority heel. Let that ride until say Summerslam 2015 when you switch him back face, as a truly polished and finished product, and let him build up steam heading til WM 32. Now that's all out the window, so my only hope, for Romans sake, is that Bryan returns by the Rumble and is put on the WM 31 Main Event vs Lesnar, a match everyone wants to see, and Roman in a big attraction match just below the main event, say vs The Rock, vs Triple H, or vs Seth Rollins. But that's not happening, atleast I don't think so.

Let's just all cross our fingers and pray WWE don't ruin this kid.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Hennessey said:


> Does anyone think Roman Reigns has had a pretty decent year so far in singles matches. His matches with Seth Rollins, Alberto Del Rio, Kane LMS, CM Punk, Orton have all been around the 3 plus star mark.


No, not at all. Matches with Punk and Kane were all awful, can't remember the match with Del Rio. The Orton and Rollins matches were "okay" I guess, but more like two starish (and I consider the Orton match a total carry job where Orton's performance is what made that match what it was). Those two and his match with Barrett on Smackdown this year would be his top 3 (singles) matches from this year. Only singles match of his I'd consider good was the one with Bryan last year (his best singles match easily). If I had to pick a 5th match to round out his top 5... tbh I'm not even sure what I'd go with. I guess the Punk match.

Outside of that he also had an awful awful match with Wyatt earlier this year that sticks out like a sore thumb. The rest of his singles matches kind of just blend in with each other and all terrible. He's not any good as a singles competitor, but lucky for him he was with The Shield and has two classics under his belt (vs. Wyatts at EC and vs. Ryback and Team Hell No at TLC). Plus in a tag team environment in general he's a good hand.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

I like the guy a lot and I hope he makes it, but he really does need to add a few more moves. Im not one of those guys that want a spotfest every time, but 3 moves for the whole match are just not enough.

I also thought the Last man standing match was pretty decent. It just had a really shit ending.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hennessey said:


> I like the guy a lot and I hope he makes it, but he really does need to add a few more moves. Im not one of those guys that want a spotfest every time, but 3 moves for the whole match are just not enough.
> 
> I also thought the Last man standing match was pretty decent. It just had a really shit ending.


Reigns is being told to only use those moves. Vince seems to think people need to continually do the same 3-5 moves over and over early on in order to get them "over" with the crowd. It's stupid. Rest assured, probably 90+% of what Reigns does at this point is strictly scripted, from his matches, to his promos, to everything. That's how it is when you're Vince's Golden Boy.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm also a big fan of Reigns, but he's coming up in a time when there are both lots of other young talent more ready than him AND there is a huge logjam in the babyface position. I don't even think he's more over than Ziggler at this point. And don't forget that Orton is now a face. I like cjack's idea of turning him heel and having him hone his skill. Reigns nailed the heel role in his matches with The Shield. He's such a good trash talker.

Smackdown was not good. Worst episode in months on a show that has had some sleeper gems every week. Highlight once again was Dolph Ziggler. This time he kicked out of a chokeslam and it felt like Undertaker kicking out of Triple H's tombstone at WM 27.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Reigns is not someone I necessarily have enjoyed that much, and aside from a few matches here and there (vs Bryan, Del Rio, Rollins, Henry and Orton), I don't think he's had that many good singles matches. Although I definitely think the man has potential - he's got a limited but intense moveset, he's a pretty good seller and, related directed to that, a fine storyteller as he is. But Vince's rushing of him to desperately become the next face of the company when he's FAR from ready is absolutely ruining him. And if they're going ahead w/giving him the title win against Lesnar at WM... just out of crowd reaction alone, prepare for a debacle even worse than Bork's match w/good ol' Bill 10/11 years ago. At least imo.

And ff, I love you dude, but I highly doubt that Ziggler kicking out of a Chokeslam hardly felt like one of the greatest nearfalls ever (say what you will about the whole match itself, but I thought that particular moment was pretty epic). Your opinion tho.



HAYLEY'S XMAS TWITTER NUDES said:


> Ascension were good. They know how to maul people. Kind of funny that people think they shouldn't do that when that's their gimmick. But you know, needs more moves. Or something that makes people on the internet type THAT/DAT. aka useless stuff. If anything, it was KENTA's lack of emoting that made it feel dry.





The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I'm not an Ascension fan but 100% agree that it was KENTA being an absolutely shit FIP in that match that caused it to feel dull/dry/boring etc. I mean he was legit awful. Ascension don't deserve blame for that, they just need to keep watching FoF tags from WCW and they will do just fine.


Well quite frankly, it's likely you guys are right and that, indeed, it is Hideo's fault for not displaying emotion and make it feel uninteresting. Now that I think about it, in the match against the Lucha Dragons, their control segment (which was worked over Hunico if I'm not wrong) never got to bore me and lack an emotion range to it, when they did the same kind of workover pretty much. I still think KENTA did a decent job of getting to rally up the crowd and tease the hot tags when necessary, but on that note, my opinion on his performance has definitely gone down. It was never that great anyway.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Hulk Hogan & Stan Hansen vs Antonio Inoki & Bob Backlund (NJ 12.10.1980)*



First Mod upload.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Found this fan made promo on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUfZBEKb10w

It got me pretty excited for a Sting/Hunter match


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

I remember reading a Wrestling Magazine from early 2000.

It had "DREAM MATCHES"

Sting and Triple H was one of them.

I have an excellent memory and this was the first thing I remembered when I saw Sting have an interaction with HHH.


15 years ago it was being talked about as a "DREAM MATCH" if only by a Wrestling Magazine. I don't know if it was a WWE mag or not...


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I don't know if I'd call Sting/HHH a dream match, or at least not to the extent of Taker/Sting (obviously), but I said it in the rumor thread and IF Taker/Wyatt is where they go with Taker, HHH can have Sting for all I care. 


Even if Taker's not facing Wyatt or Sting though, I do hope he does wrestle again and hopefully he's ready by WM31 because right now it's looking like it's gonna be a downer show for me if Taker isn't there. Only two people I don't want Taker facing is Lesnar (no need) or Reigns (it would be another terrible match/feud for Taker as I don't think he can carry anybody anymore). Matches I'd be most interested in seeing Taker in at Mania if he wrestles are:

Taker/Wyatt
Taker/Cena
Taker/Bryan
Taker/Ambrose
Taker/Rollins
Taker/BNB 

Some of those matches may be odd looking on paper, but I think any of them could make for a great match and feud, and in the case of all of them except the Cena match, Id be marking like crazy for both Taker and his opponent. It'd be awesome for me as a fan.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Taker/Cena is for me the only Undertaker match that I still want to see


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That HHH tombstone didn't really make me feel like the match would end, so actually Ziggler's nearfalls are better than that or any streak nearfall :side:

Taker/Bryan is the only Taker match I'm interested in seeing mainly because I kinda wanna see the size dynamic in play in a Taker match. The crowd in that match would be insane.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Damn, I've missed the last two NXT specials. I need to get on that. That Steen & Generico shit sounds epic. TLC tonight (and I'm actually right this time). Are we expecting a Reigns return? An Orton return? Anything significant?

It's incredible how I'll get excited on the day of a PPV, no mater what the actual card looks like. WWE has a lifetime grip on me.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Taker/Bryan would come close or even actually rival the likes of Cena/Punk MITB or Rock/Hogan I in crowd reaction terms. The roof would the blown of-oh nevermind, WM 31's gonna be in an open roof stadium 8*D

But even without that in mind, I legit CRAVE for that match. Cause, you know, Taker/Bryan. Need any more explanation? If we're never gonna get Lesnar/Bryan, at least give us the other option of best in the world and ultimate underdog vs. legend big guy whose everything he does (or at least used to do) in the ring has a purpose. But, yeah, I don't expect it to happen, quite frankly. I don't even know where Bryan is landing on WM 31's card. Is he wrestling Rusev? No wait, that's Cena. HHH gets Sting. Bray gets supposedly Taker. Rollins will likely get Orton. Lesnar's getting Reigns. Ambrose... well he has nothing to do, and he's the most over guy behind Bryan, so there's that option... nah I don't see it. Where the fuck does Bryan land? Maybe - and I'm just throwing this option out there - Rock/Bryan if Rock's avaliable?


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

The Ascension are crap - Konnor's face at Balor's paint had me :lmao - the biggest guy in the match puts on his "I dunno what I'ma gonna do!" face. Buddy, you've got half a foot and 40-60lbs on everyone else, and _that's_ your reaction? Also, their control segments are boring. Crap stomps, clubbin' aback, soft strikes, etc. They don't come off as imposing or intimidating. I fully expect them to be an afterthought a year from now. Ric/Vic Victor/Rictor is supposed to be their technician, but eh, don't buy it. I'm not usually one to LOVE the dark/black gimmicks, so maybe I'm biased, but they've never made an impression on me besides two guys who rehearse faces and poses in a mirror, but only so-so in the ring. They play their part adequately, but not tremendously. 

Do a top 5 matches of the year:

Bryan/Wyatt RR ****1/2
Shield/Wyatts EC ****1/2
Charlotte/Banks Revolution ****1/2
Cesaro/Zayn Arrival ****1/2
Cesaro/Cena Raw ****1/4

Can't miss on those top-5's - Cena/Wyatt LMS, Bryan goes to Wrestlemania, and and some other stuff as HM/6-10.

ETA: Reigns, right - not really a fan. Thought the match with Orton was head and shoulders his best work. Had it at ***1/2. Booked above his talents, and being thrown too much, too soon. He's not terrible by any means, but hasn't really gotten any better since his debut (the Orton match had like, what - two months of house show prep?). And that 24/7 smoldering duck face fpalm. Just stop. It's awful. He's early enough in his career, but he's being booked in make or break fashion (I.e. crushing people) that's going to produce a very polar response. I'm not really a vocal critic either:lol I don't like being hard on guys, especially if it's not 100% where I stand on them (looking at you Big E, Sandow, and Ziggles). This last year and a half has been a "wait and see" period. No expectations, hope for the best. He's not clicked with me yet, even w/out drudging up dirt sheet whatnot.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I haven't seen much from the Ascension but out of the few matches I saw when they were the dominating NXT Tag Champs, they looked ridiculously generic. Plain old run-of-the-mill mean looking tag team with little in-ring skill. They growl a lot and look big but I was never impressed with them. 

Wrestlemania 31 has enough matches quite literally already setup at this point to make it special:

Triple H vs. Sting
Lesnar vs. Reigns or Bryan (preferably Bryan if he's healthy)
Taker retirement match? (vs. Wyatt? Cena?)


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

ATF said:


> Taker/Bryan would come close or even actually rival the likes of Cena/Punk MITB or Rock/Hogan I in crowd reaction terms. The roof would the blown of-oh nevermind, WM 31's gonna be in an open roof stadium 8*D
> 
> But even without that in mind, I legit CRAVE for that match. Cause, you know, Taker/Bryan. Need any more explanation? If we're never gonna get Lesnar/Bryan, at least give us the other option of best in the world and ultimate underdog vs. legend big guy whose everything he does (or at least used to do) in the ring has a purpose. But, yeah, I don't expect it to happen, quite frankly. I don't even know where Bryan is landing on WM 31's card. Is he wrestling Rusev? No wait, that's Cena. HHH gets Sting. Bray gets supposedly Taker. Rollins will likely get Orton. Lesnar's getting Reigns. Ambrose... well he has nothing to do, and he's the most over guy behind Bryan, so there's that option... nah I don't see it. Where the fuck does Bryan land? Maybe - and I'm just throwing this option out there - Rock/Bryan if Rock's avaliable?


Bryan-Rollins is the only way I can see them going. Hoping for Ambrose-Rollins still.

Brock-Reigns
Taker-Wyatt
HHH-Sting
Cena-Rusev
Bryan-Rollins

Really doesn't excite me at all. Although if Reigns gets the main event nothing will make me enjoy the show.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

For those who watch the show live, please come here with some "First-Watch Star Ratings..."

Always interested in opinions on matches even if I haven't seen them.

Im fully expecting Ziggler-Harper and Wyatt-Ambrose to be tremendous matches.

These guys in gimmick matches on PPV, I see no reason they can't put on good showings.

Lets hope those two deliver and there are other surprises.

I will watch them tomorrow, I don't have the Network (can't where I am in this building) and don't care to watch live streams so I will probably watch them tomorrow morning.


----------



## RestHolder (Jan 28, 2014)

I don't want Taker at Mania anymore, tbh. Without the streak, he's just an old guy putting on sub-par matches. I love Taker, but there's no need for him to wrestle this year, nor do I think he will.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

If we absolutely, positively cannot get Lesnar/Bryan for the WWE title at WM, then Bryan/Rollins would be a VERY nice substitute. I just re watched their New Horizons match 2 days ago and it's still an amazing ****3/4, all time great match. Everything about Danielson in that match is perfection, I want him to wrestle like that when he comes back, with that "FUCK YOU, EAT SOME STRIKES" edge. Where he looks like is legit trying to tear limbs off with his submissions. He can use that vicious edge to overcome the lack of the missile drop kick/suicide dive/diving head butt that he should be removing from his arsenal so he doesn't reinjure himself. Bryan being a nasty little shit is just the best, crowds will love him for it.

Dream WM 31 Card:

Lesnar vs Bryan WWE Title
Taker vs Cena in a retirement match
Sting vs HHH
Reigns vs Rollins vs Ambrose triple threat (MitB briefcase on the line?)
Randy Orton vs Rusev
Luke Harper vs Cesaro for the IC Title
Ziggler vs Bray Wyatt
*Random Divas Match*
*Big Tag Match*

Pre Show: Sami Sayn vs Kevin Owens for the NXT Title

How's THAT for a WM card?

OR: if WWE wanted to be SMART, and use the old guys/part timers to make some new stars, they could do:

Sting vs Rollins
Taker vs Wyatt
Triple H vs Dean Ambrose
Cena vs Rusev
Rock vs Reigns


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I want Miz vs. Mizdow to open Mania. And Ryback to dethrone Rusev.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I suppose I want my cake and to eat it tbh regarding Sting, as I'd like Sting/Taker but, at this point, I'd actually would like Sting/HHH too.

Highly doubtful Bryan comes back for WM IMO, but man alive both Taker and Lesnar would be :lenny


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I want Miz vs. Mizdow to open Mania. And Ryback to dethrone Rusev.



I'd rather watch an NXT divas match than watch Miz wrestle. Sandow is good but really he isn't a guy I LOVE to watch wrestle or anything, either. So yea, I'm poo pooing your Miz/Mizdow match, those two need to stay as a team for a while longer.

I'd rather nobody dethrone Rusev, it's too early for that. They need to keep this slow, mid card simmer going with him for ATLEAST another 6 months IMO. What's the rush? It needs to get to the point where people are DYING to see him get beat, and then let it be someone who can give Rusev a MOTYC and a match where he can still look strong in a loss. Ryback is not the guy to do that, Danielson is.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Dream Wrestlemania card
Dean Ambrose V Seth Rollins(c) WWHWHC
Daniel Bryan V Brock lesnar
John Cena V Rusev
Randy Orton V Triple H
Cesaro(c) V Chris Jericho Intercontinental champion
Cody Rhodes V Goldust Retirement match
Luke Harper V The Ryback
Sami Zayn wins the Andre The Giant battle royal

Orton-HHH is kind of a sacrifice match because I need Orton on the card and didn't have anyone else.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Sandow vs. Miz at Mania I'm not sure would serve well as the opener but I'm totally for it being at Mania. They can really push this Sandow/Miz thing through early March where Sandow finally attacks the Miz (after being instigated by Miz). Sandow/Miz has been such a great mid-card program thus far that it totally deserves to finish up at Mania if they can keep it hot long enough. It's showed no signs of slowing down yet, so that's a good sign.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I'd rather nobody dethrone Rusev, it's too early for that. They need to keep this slow, mid card simmer going with him for ATLEAST another 6 months IMO. What's the rush? It needs to get to the point where people are DYING to see him get beat, and then let it be someone who can give Rusev a MOTYC and a match where he can still look strong in a loss. Ryback is not the guy to do that, Danielson is.


The problem with that is that people are gonna stop caring. It's different when Goldberg was tearing through people and the fans WANTED to see him win. It was gonna be a huge shock when he finally lost. Nowadays, when we tune in every week and see somewhat of a marquee match with Rusev, we just say 'well he's either winning or it'll be a non-finish'. If he keeps winning and winning or his matches don't have finishes, it'll just hurt him. At some point, someone needs to beat him by just enough for the fans to think he's vulnerable so then they actually wanna tune in to watch him wrestle to see if he'll lose again. Of course, I can't tell you who this person is and it shouldn't be a match with the US Title on the line.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> The problem with that is that people are gonna stop caring. It's different when Goldberg was tearing through people and the fans WANTED to see him win. It was gonna be a huge shock when he finally lost. Nowadays, when we tune in every week and see somewhat of a marquee match with Rusev, we just say 'well he's either winning or it'll be a non-finish'. If he keeps winning and winning or his matches don't have finishes, it'll just hurt him. At some point, someone needs to beat him by just enough for the fans to think he's vulnerable so then they actually wanna tune in to watch him wrestle to see if he'll lose again. Of course, I can't tell you who this person is and it shouldn't be a match with the US Title on the line.


That's entirely possible. My whole thing is, I really like Rusev and think he has worlds of potential. I don't want to see his first clean loss go to just anybody, like Ryback, or to someone who doesn't need it and has no business beating him, like Cena. I want Rusev to finally get over confident, instead of having other people challenge him, he decides to pick on "this little American pip squeak", Daniel Bryan. I feel like you could get a 2 month program out of those two, culminating in Bryan finally being the one to topple Rusev. The reason I think Bryan is the best pick is 1.) He is 100% credible, he managed to beat the entire Authority in 1 night 2.) He can use the win to really pick up steam once he's back and healthy and 3.) Bryan is one of the only guys on the roster I would trust to both give Rusev a sure fire, ****+ MOTYC quality match where fans are so over joyed at how amazing the match was that losing doesn't make Rusev look too bad, and that Bryan is the best guy at making his opponents look like a trillion dollars even in defeat. 

Of course, this will probably not play out I'm just speculating about how Rusevs first loss should come about. Would you atleast agree that it's necessary to have his first loss be in a GREAT match so fans can somewhat over look him losing? That's generally the case in these things, if a match is a sure fire classic where the heel loses, it doesn't make them look as bad as if it's an average match where he loses.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rusev is beneath Daniel Bryan's toenails, and there is no reason whatsoever for Bryan to feud with that peasant. Ryback and Rusev had a faceoff last month that drew a huge pop. Ryback also hasn't won a title yet and winning the US Title would mean a lot. Plus Ryback isn't just "some guy". He has shown before that he can main event. I'm all for him dethroning Rusev at Mania if Jack Swagger can't (which he won't).


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Think I'd prefer The Ryback to Bryan as well, Bryan doesn't need the rub.

I don't think it makes any difference how good a match it is when someone beats him, people don't watch Rusev to see good matches, they watch him hoping to see him get his ass kicked.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I don't think I'll ever see anything in The Ryback, so I sure as hell don't wanna see him be the first to defeat Rusev. I'm willing to bet his chairs match with Kane tonight will be a candidate for worst match of the year. :lol I 'm really not too worried about exactly _who _is the first person to beat him, I'm more curious as to _how _they beat him. Knowing this company, it'll be Heath Slater with a rollup. I do agree though that an upper midcard feud between Danielson & Rusev would be totally awesome. It would be even bigger if Rusev was able to beat Bryan first (in the fashion he "beat" Swagger, where Bryan would just pass out in the Accolade).

What do you guys think will main event tonight? Cena/Rollins or Ambrose/Wyatt?


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Definitely Cena-Rollins. I'd have Ambrose-Wyatt but I really cant see it.

Either Reigns or Orton to return and cost Rollins the match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Jesus christ guys. I'm seriously fearing for both these guys health in this match. This is scary.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Every opener this year has been great. Unprecedented.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Ziggler said this would be the best match of his career....he was right. Christ almighty what a physical fucking match, best ladder match since Sheamus/JoMo at TLC 2010. Unbelievable. I'm almost speechless. Ziggler actually topped the match he had with ADR at Payback. This cracks my top 5 for the year, guys.

****1/4 for Ziggler/Harper IC Title Ladder match (why are the best Ladder matches ALWAYS for the IC title??)


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

By far the most cringeworthy match I've seen in the WWE in years. Not sure how Ziggler isn't dead and how Harper's arm isn't broken. Incredible.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

**** for Harper-Ziggler. Absolutely brutal(in a good way) match.

I'm guessing the reports of the main roster being determined to outdo Takeover are true looking at that.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

More important than the match itself is that the WWE actually put over the IC title.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

****1/4 for Ziggler/Harper. So many innovative spots.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

How Ziggler isn't dead, and Harpers arm isn't broken, I'll never know. That was the most cringeworthy match since the Steen Wolf Generico/Steen Ladder match that could have easily resulted in 2nd degree manslaughter charges against Kevin Steen. Safe to say, I loved Zigglers performance and man on man how GREAT is Luke effin Harper? Is this the most the IC title has meant since 2009 in the Jericho/Rey feud?

I can't wait for Harpers rematch. I can watch these two go at it all day and not get bored, fantastic chemistry and their characters make for a really intriguing style clash.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

**1/2 for Mizdow-Uso's all because of Sandow.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

When's the last time an IC Title match had a big fight feel? Almost a little surreal this match was.

And utterly awesome. These guys killed it.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Ryan193 said:


> **1/2 for Mizdow-Uso's all because of Sandow.


Even though Miz did all the work?


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Hennessey said:


> Even though Miz did all the work?


His antics made the match what it was.


----------



## RATED R RULES (May 27, 2007)

**** for the opener but I may be being harsh. Huge big fight feel and some death defying stuff. Loved every second of it. 

Usos/Miz&Dow: **


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'll be honest, I couldn't even be bothered to pay attention to Usos/Mizdow. No interest from me at all.

:lmao at WWE claiming the top of the stairs weigh 87 pounds. There is no way in hell those weigh that much, probably about half that. You can't throw something weighing 87lbs at someone's skull without ending them.


----------



## RATED R RULES (May 27, 2007)

The Stairs match is a new low of a concept. And yes I am including ____ on a pole matches in that too. And as for them calling this PPV Tables, Ladders, Chairs and Stairs :lmao 

Hoping this isn't where this PPV falls off the cliff


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)




----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Anyone else think the stairs match was really good? :lol

***


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

I thought it was a good match as well. Solid *** match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:mark: The correct match will main event


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Ambrose-Wyatt closing then? :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Totally enjoyed the stairs match. Loved the angry giant finish. Show taking the corner of the steps to the thigh looked painful as fuck too.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yea, not too shabby for that stairs match. Wish they would have just gone all out with the clobbering more, but all in all it was a decent match to watch. I'll give it **3/4.

Edit- :lmao at all this interference in the Rollins/Cena match. I swear, WWE learned NOTHING from that abortion at Extreme Rules last year. If Cena wins despite all this interference, Rollins is going to look like a total chump. Also, why isn't a baby face like say Ziggler coming to Cena's aid? It makes Cena look bad, too.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Think this is a bit different since J&J are stooges and not monsters like Harper and Rowan.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Here's to hoping Rollins wins and they make the main event for the number one contender spot. This match sucks.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

This match fucking blows.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Fuckery supreme. :lmao


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Shame they're stuck with a shitty tables match, they've shown that they have good chemistry together in their TV matches.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

:lmao so that's why that match didn't go on last, it was shit and WWE knew fans would be pissed with that finish. Here is a hint WWE, if your planned finish is going to get massive "oh fuck off" heat from the fans, maybe you shouldn't do it? Ugh.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rollins performance made that somewhat enjoyable down the stretch. Otherwise, CENA WASN'T SUPPOSED TO WIN DAMMIT!!!


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Absolute bullshit.

1/4*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Renee Young is absolutely gorgeous.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

***1/2 for Cena/Rollins. Crazy booked match.


EDIT: That pop for Roman Reigns was fucking awesome.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

A 4th of a star is generous for that.... 2014 has boasted three of maybe ten of the worst matches in John Cena's career since being franchise guy. That Kane stretcher match, Bray/Cena EC and jeez that table match. Ya'll know I'm usually a neutural studier of the craft and whatnot by my god what a bad match that made Rollins look terrible. Rollins in a bad match is such a rarity that guy has such a consistent batting average. 

Good to see people being receptive to Reigns though. Really rooting for that guy to succeed despite his performance deficiencies.

Edit: I'll admit I am probably engaging in hyperbole and if I watch it back I might find it somewhat palpable


----------



## blink_41sum_182 (Apr 9, 2011)

Wow Cena/Rollins was horrible. Very underwhelming.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Dolph/Harper ****1/4
Usos/Mizdow piss break 
Rowan/Show **3/4
Rollins/Cena 1/4*
Nikki/AJ cigarette break

Yea, no chance in hell this beats NXT: R Evolution unless Ambrose/Wyatt is a ****1/2+ classic. Then again, it didn't have much of a chance to begin with, what with the shitty booking and all.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

1/4* for Nikki-AJ as well.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Crowd's absolutely dead.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Am I crazy or was Ryback/Kane not too shabby?


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Am I crazy or was Ryback/Kane not too shabby?


Well I can't be too crazy if somebody other than me thought that was decent. Not great or even good, but decent. Cue the Farnsworth Whaaaaa.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Ziggler-Harper ****
Uso's-Mizdow **1/2
Rowan-Big Show ***
Cena-Rollins 1/4
Nikki-AJ 1/4*
Kane-The Ryback **
Swagger-Rusev *

Cannot believe I stayed up for this shit.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

This show has sucked big time after the ladder match. Everything is just garbage.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I can't believe I was actually rooting for Kane in a match in 2014. :lol


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I hear Sami's had a real solid year in NXT (dont follow NXT on a weekly basis), but for me Dean has to be WWE's WOTY. Guy's had a real solid full calendar year in both singles, multi-man tags, multi-man matches and a wide spectrum of match types vs a diverse opponent grouping producing many **** plus matches vs multiple opponents. Great year for Ambrose in the ring especially considering his complimentary heel to lead face transition. Hell his SD catologue this year has been quite solid and that isn't where his best work this year lies.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Good match, expected better though. Ridiculous finish that benefits no one. ***3/4

Terrible show.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm not sure if you guys heard, but Dean Ambrose actually ISN'T allowed to win matches anymore. The company said he's already over enough with the fans so we're just gonna keep screwing you out of seeing a quality finish.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

One awesome match, one very good main event, and then whatever the hell in between was not noteworthy. Well I guess the stairs match wasn't bad. And the US Title match was ok. If this was 1996, this would be a good PPV. But it's 2014.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Final TLC&S 2014 Ratings:

Ziggler-Harper ****1/4
Uso's-Mizdow piss break
Rowan-Big Show **3/4
Cena-Rollins 1/4*
Nikki-AJ cig break
Kane-The Ryback **
Swagger-Rusev *
Ambrose-Wyatt ***1/4

The opener was FUCKING AWESOME, top 5 for my 2014 MotY standings. After that, obviously it was going to be downhill, but man I didnt realize it would fall off THAT hard. Not one single match worthy of being deemed "good" the rest of the night until the main event, which was definitely good but again nowhere near what I thought it could and should have been. Was was completely dead after the first match, and it's hard to blame them with the shit WWE was putting out there. Maybe one day they will learn, having gimmick PPV's like TLC and HiaC is a fucking stupid idea. Just completely goes against every code of the entertainment business, in that the crowd needs variety not 3 hours of people getting hit with chairs, ladders, stairs, and getting put through tables. It loses it's impact by the time the ME rolls around, and it robs the ME of the crowd interaction it should have, not to mention it cheapens the allure of a TLC or HiaC match.

Even so, the main event had a ton of flaws and as with the Rollins/Ambrose HiaC match, it was over booked to hell. I was hoping we would just get an all out war between these two and instead we got, I don't even know what we got. It was just kind of a paint by the numbers TLC match without any heat to speak of. I'm dissapointed we didn't get the classic I thought these two were capable of. I'm dissapointed we didn't even get a GREAT match. And I'm REALLY dissapointed in how stupid the finish was. Leaves an awful taste in my mouth, and makes Dean look like a straight up idiot. How Dean ever agreed to do that finish, I'll never know. I'd honestly much prefer Dean just to lose clean as a whistle to Sister Abigail than to have to do the stupid, overly contrived electroshock dumb fuck finish.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Awful is an understatement to describe this show.

Ziggler/Harper: ***1/2
Tag titles: **1/4
Rowan/Show: 3/4*
Rollins/Cena: **1/4
Nikki/AJ: *
Ryback/Kane: 3/4*
Swagger/Rusev: DUD/NA
Ambrose/Wyatt: ***1/4

-- Ziggler/Harper was great. Some great action and a hot crowd made better with Ziggler regaining the IC Title. 

-- The tag title match felt like a Raw match. My rating is generous because of Mizdow's antics.

-- Rowan/Show should never, ever happen again.

-- Rollins/Cena was Wyatt/Cena in the cage part two. Rollins lost not once, BUT FUCKING TWICE. Hell, even three times when you factor in the announce table not breaking. Not only that - but Cena also beat Mercury and Noble. So fucking protected and he still wins. No wonder no one else can grab the "brass ring". Whenever one of the younger guys is about to, Cena pulls 'em right back down.

-- Nikki/AJ, meh. I'm more confused about Brie and Nikki being together again.

-- Kane needs to retire. And WWE has done no favours for Ryback since his return. He was eliminated first at SS and was stuck with Kane for 10 minutes on PPV.

-- Swagger/Rusev didn't even get a chance.

-- Ambrose/Wyatt was a good under-card match, but after the horrible show after the ladder match, the deflated crowd and repeated spots, they just couldn't live up to the hype/anticipation/expectations. Not only that, but there was too much downtime for my liking and the ending was hokey as shit. I am completely fine with Wyatt winning, but Ambrose constantly losing now is fucking stupid. His last PPV win was at Payback when The Shield was still a thing.

also, :ti at Reigns forgetting his lines. Horrible.

It's now at the point where I should stop expecting WWE to do something good (aside from NXT) and start asking myself why I waste my time with this shit time and time again.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Royal Rumble will be worse, which is just depressing.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

It's the Rumble. They have to try really fucking hard to fuck that up.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Woah am I the only person who enjoyed the Cena/Rollins match? I can't say I liked the booking, but I thought the match was good.

Rough ratings for me:

Ziggler/Harper: ****1/2
Usos/MizTeam: **
Rowan/Show: **1/2
Cena/Rollins: ***1/2
Nikki/AJ: I had fallen behind a bit due to pausing the live stream at different parts of the show so I entirely skipped this match to catch up with the live stream
Kane/Ryback: 1/2 (surprised to see people give this **, I thought it sucked ass)
Rusev/Swagger: 1/4
Ambrose/Wyatt: ***3/4

While the finish was dumb, I enjoyed the main event for what it was. Ambrose and Wyatt pulled out everything they had, but the feud just hasn't been good enough to take it to the level it needed to be at. They really worked hard and had an entertaining match though. They've worked very well with the mediocre writing and booking they've been given. 

Overall a solid show in my opinion.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

RatedR10 said:


> ...start asking myself why I waste my time with this shit time and time again.


It's best if you just stop and "get out". Looks like they are hell-bent on super-pushing Reigns so it's safe to say 2015 will probably be even worse.

----------

Haven't followed the shows in about a month but since I have the Network for the rest of the month I half-watched the opener when I was in the kitchen on iPhone and it was a pretty good match. Didn't watch the rest and reading the comments here, looks like I made the right decision. First time ever where my excitement for the Royal Rumble is subzero. No enthusiasm whatsoever. Even when Orton returns I'm not gonna waste a minute watching anything live, will just read the results and specifically watch his segment/matches. Unless they turn him vanilla and he feuds with Kane and starts beating midcard heels in meaningless match like 2012. In that case, I can safely put it away completely and just finish off the Attitude Era.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Perhaps now you can start watching NXT or old ROH.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

My enthusiasm and love for wrestling just seems to be at the lowest it's been since I stopped watching in 2008. NXT is great, but I can't even be bothered to use the network for it weekly. If we still had it on SN in Canada I'd be watching every week.

And fuck, I feel like Orton's return feud is going to be Kane. What a waste.

They're going to fuck up the Rumble. I can feel it. It's so hard to fuck up, but I can sense it. It already sucks that I know Reigns is going to win.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Ok guys, one of my friends wants to try to get into wrestling, and I am building a list for him of matches we can watch. I need help with what matches to add. The general criteria is that I want to start with some shorter, fun sprints and move up to more technical cool looking stuff, so if I could get any help that would just be awesome, thank you guys in advance.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Got back from the PPV event. Thoughts:

I really enjoyed this PPV. The crowd was absolute horeshit but I did my best to not let that sway my view on the matches themselves. It was different though as being there and watching from home are a lot more different than I thought. You find yourself enjoying things a lot more when you're there with friends and you're all caught up in the big arena feeling of it all (that was unfortunately the best thing I could come up with to describe that).

Anyways, I'm surprised and baffled by how anyone can call this PPV "bad", considering how badly people have reacted to past PPV's this year that weren't even close to being as good as this one, most notably Survivor Series. Anyways...

*Ziggler vs Harper:* I don't know why, but the crowd was actually pretty hot for this match, and then all of a sudden they just lost any sign of life they had left in them afterwords. But I thought this was a crazy good match and a lot of fun to watch. Harper is a genius in the ring, and it was hard for us to tell from where we were sitting but I'm pretty sure both guys were bleeding at one point, no? Neat little feature that added to the match imo. *Match Rating: *****, great way to start out the PPV.

*Tag Team Match:* I must admit, being there live made this a very difficult match for me personally to watch, because most of the time me and my friends were focused more so on Mizdow, who did a lot more mimicking than he normally does. From what I can recall, this was a pretty disappointing turn out imo. I also am starting to think that they are going a little overboard with the Mizdow thing and it's taking down the quality of the matches he and Miz are in as a result. *Match Rating: *1/2*, but again, I wasn't really too focused on the actual match.

*Big Show vs Eric Rowan:* I had very low expectations of this match, so I guess that might be a major reason as to why I actually really enjoyed it. I don't know why, but I was expecting the steel stairs to only be used a few times and for just regular hits. They actually went all out in this one and made the match not only watchable but pretty damn brutal. Another thing that surprised me was how dominant the Big Show was, and tbf, I actually liked that. That's how he should be in most of his matches. I think it made it a lot better. It was no five star match by any means, but I feel like it's going to get underrated by many here. *Match Rating: ****

*Seth Rollins vs John Cena:* Fun fact, me and my friends were planning on leaving early because we didn't really care much for this match and thought it would be the main event. Then we found out this was next and during the entire video building up their feud, we were deciding what we were going to do.

Anyways, Joey and Kyle (the two I went with) didn't like this match all that much, but I thought it was great. Normally, I get pissed when WWE overbooks like hell in Cena matches regarding interferences, but in this instance I think it worked great because for once Cena was actually looking good in the ring even before interference. Let me explain. In his steel cage match against Bray Wyatt, Cena was booked to look super strong. Despite this, Bray still dominated most of the match, and there was little to no flow to it. Here, Cena actually puts up a fight most of the time and is actually doing a lot more work than he normally does. I like his matches more when he's doing this, because it makes the flow of it a lot smoother and they are able to tell a much better story.

For a tables match, this was a match that had no business being anything good, because it's hard to accomplish that in a match like this. They did a very good job, and the overbooking and Cena winning is probably going to cloud over how good of a job they did in this match. *Match Rating: ***3/4*

*Divas Match:* Let me start by just saying that Nikki and Brie are both still shit mic workers. With that said, Brie is even worse at acting. I've never seen someone be so terrible at simply saying "COME ON *insert wrestler's name here*". She looked so unbelievably awkward every time they showed her on the big screen cheering for Nikki. Anyways, typical divas match, this time with more moves than usual, which is typical of Nikki. For once though Nikki actually did moves that made sense with the story they attempted to tell. Then when Aj got the advantage, she seemed to no sell the living shit out of all the damage done to her back. Nikki is the one trying to tell a story and Aj isn't? Shocker. *Match Rating: ***

*Kane vs Ryback:* This was another shocker. We all had very low expectations of this match and we actually enjoyed it for what it was. They played to the chairs gimmick nicely. I thought the ending was a bit of laziness on WWE's part, but otherwise I couldn't have asked for anymore out of these two. I give them a lot of credit for just making this one watchable. *Match Rating: **3/4*

*Swagger vs Rusev:* I completely forgot that this match was supposed to happen, as did Joey and Kyle. We all went to the bathroom because we assumed with the large amount of time left that they were going to do some filler bs or something, and then we heard Rusev's music on our way but decided to just go anyways. So I was pretty pissed about missing most of this one, as I really enjoy their matches and think they have great chemistry. *Match Rating: DUD *(have to see the full thing first).

*Ambrose vs Wyatt:* This might be the best one on one TLC match I've ever seen. One on one TLC matches are very hard to pull off due to the amount of resting periods required. The way they booked this was so well done, the placement of certain spots and the build up to them was done incredibly well, Dean's character and insanity was used very nicely here. It was an incredible main event.

And then the finish happened. That finish may very well be one of the worst finishes I've ever seen to a match. I don't know if anything happened regarding that after the match ended, because me, my friends, and oddly enough a lot of people around us got up and left as soon as we saw that. I guess we weren't the only ones who were there and hated the finish. *Match Rating: ****1/2, becomes a ****1/4 after the finish. *

I seriously don't know what you guys were expecting out of this. I know there were reports about these guys wanting to do their best to out perform the NXT guys (and they failed miserably), but there's a few things we need to take into perspective here. First, the NXT event had a much bigger advantage than TLC did in terms of crowd involvement. People actually gave a shit about every match that was occurring. Here, the crowd was absolutely horrid (nice job Cleveland, way to make me proud) and were barely into any of the matches. Crowd involvement can make a match a lot better than it actually is at times, and that holds true here. Second, I think this idea that the guys on TLC wanted to outshine NXT lifted up our expectations of the matches, so we expected a PPV of the year candidate out of this one. I mean, there's no possible way Rowan/Show or Ryback/Kane were going to be match of the year candidate matches no matter how hard they tried. But lets give WWE credit where credit is due. They gave ALL of the matches (well, not Swagger/Rusev, but that's besides the point) a good amount of match time. They didn't have any squashes, they didn't screw over any matches significantly in order to benefit the other or fill in some bullshit they wanted to do, they gave everyone their chance to shine. When you get right down to it, a lot of the matches on this card turned out to be much better than they should have been, and in that aspect alone the talent that performed tonight deserve a ton of credit. 

*Overall event rating: 8/10* (this might have been different if I actually wasn't there. Not having to listen to commentary is much better than I thought. Regardless, great PPV event, and I'm surprised that a lot of people didn't enjoy it). In terms of the matches though, overall I'd give this a 7/10, which is still very good. 

Funny story: My seats where right behind the metal bars that are above one of the gateway holes you can walk through to get into the arena in the second floor seating area. A girl and her boyfriend where near us. I don't know what exactly the girl is doing with her phone out at this moment (probably texting), but when Roman Reign's music hit, the next thing I saw was this phone fly across my face and down onto the concrete floor right next to the entrance. Turns out she apparently flung her arms up in excitement when she heard the music because she's a big Reigns fan, and the phone slipped out of her hand. 

Spoiler warning: The phone broke. And she was devastated. Oh well :shrug


----------



## CHAMPviaDQ (Jun 19, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I'm not sure if you guys heard, but Dean Ambrose actually ISN'T allowed to win matches anymore. The company said he's already over enough with the fans so we're just gonna keep screwing you out of seeing a quality finish.


I believe this and I'm not even wearing my tinfoil hat.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Tanner1495 said:


> Ok guys, one of my friends wants to try to get into wrestling, and I am building a list for him of matches we can watch. I need help with what matches to add. The general criteria is that I want to start with some shorter, fun sprints and move up to more technical cool looking stuff, so if I could get any help that would just be awesome, thank you guys in advance.


Rey/Eddie Havoc 97 is an excellent choice. Obviously, skeptical fans would have a short attention span for pacing, so this cuts a nice pace, is a reasonable length at 15 minutes, is historically significant in how American cruiserweight matches are formatted, gives a good layout of what a clear intense heel is and face and is a match I consider 5 stars. Very aesthetically pleasing which is important for new fans. Not to mention, this match has familiar names and doesn't require a backstory to really appreciate.


----------



## RestHolder (Jan 28, 2014)

Sigh. Reigns hate. I may have to go full over-the-top Reigns mark just for the sake of counteracting all the hate for my boy Roman.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Edit- :lmao at all this interference in the Rollins/Cena match. I swear, WWE learned NOTHING from that abortion at Extreme Rules last year. If Cena wins despite all this interference, Rollins is going to look like a total chump. Also, why isn't a baby face like say Ziggler coming to Cena's aid? It makes Cena look bad, too.


Cena never helps anyone so why should someone help him? Scumbag Cena.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Wow I'm just so disinterested with anything wrestling related when it comes to the main shows, I'm surprised myself. All this overbooking has worn out it's welcome.

Thank heavens for NXT and Wrestle Kingdom next month, or I'd have completely stopped watching wrestling.


I can just feel Royal Rumble's gonna suck already.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I had a great deal of fun watching the TLC PPV; and by PPV I mean just the opener. Harper gets another commendation for that vicious performance. Little things like toppling a ladder onto an already downed Ziggler makes me giddy. Not sure I'd say this is Ziggler's best match since Alberto at Payback but I'm nowhere close to being on the Ziggler train in calling this a good performance. Convulsing while prone to set up a fighting spirit comeback negating anything done to him is not selling. It just looks like epilepsy. Even his bumping is becoming (?) a problem, in that there's zero range of effect.

We may loathe the ladder match's trope of having guys climb slowly but when the opposite is done it looks worse. When done right, the slow climb allows for a breath between the opponent being taken out and them resurfacing to thwart the attempted grab at the prize. It works fine when one of them gestures around/sells or it's a big man weary of climbing a ladder. Not when Ziggler is sprinting up it and forcing Harper to completely shrug off the bump that had him laid out onto the lifted ladder so he can get there in time. It makes even less sense when he suddenly sells, moments later, and climbs the ladder slowly because it's the climb that he wins on. The flurried punches to the corner may be a small gripe, but this is a rational complaint. Ziggler does not get wrestling. There is no median to his work, just off and on. Cena gets a helluva lot of stick for his selling, yet Ziggler gets a pass and touted as one of the company's greatest. I don't get it. Cena > Ziggler. Yes, in 2014. It's not even close, to boot. I think I'm done watching Ziggler wrestle. I may have hated the product in the last few months, but I've hated his matches more.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Finally watched the show in full not preoccupied with the Cowboys game...

Quick thoughts.

Ziggler/Harper was fucking awesome. I loved the pacing cause it felt more realistic and honestly, the spots weren't so brutal where I thought someone was done. Ziggler falling from a ladder but not going thru a table. Harper falling back on a ladder..etc...In fact, the spots not being so big helped and hurt the match a bit.

Usos/Mizdow: Nice raw comedy match.

Big Show/Rowan : one decent spot going thru the stairs but rather dull. strange winner.

Seth Rollins/John Cena : Holy overbooked. If Show and Reigns didnt show up, I coulda been okay with the match as long as Rollins won cause at least it would be interesting instead of Lesnar beating Cena again. Rollins did this great spot where he dived thru the middle rope onto Cena who was laying on the floor.

Nikki/AJ : Meh. Still don't get why the bellas are cool with each other except to say, they should never be faces. While I love AJ, she's not a good face. The divas division needs a good face.

Kane/Ryback : awful.. another Raw match on the show and chairs were not used enough. Ryback as a face works but Kane needs to brought out back and shot like old yeller.

Rusev/Swagger : too short but fun. Looking forward to what's next for Rusev. Doesn't look like Reigns like I thought.

Ambrose/Wyatt: I love both of these guys but this feud is underwhelming. Okay TLC and they tried but Ambrose hit a billion elbows from ladders meh then that stupid finish.


Overall, 3/10 because of Ziggler/Harper boss match, Rollins and Wyatt/Ambrose working hard.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

At this point I can't take anyone who gives the Rollins/Cena match anything less than a ** seriously.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

TheGodsofChristmas said:


> At this point I can't take anyone who gives the Rollins/Cena match anything less than a ** seriously.


Maybe I need to watch it again, as my internet connection was fucking up throughout that match for some reason and it kept freezing for 2-5 seconds at a time. I reset my router after that match and the rest of the event went fine. But watching it I just kept getting flash backs to Extreme Rules 2014 and I felt like it never became a real wrestling match, just overbooked nonsense.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Plus when has there ever been a GOOD tables match barring maybe the Hardys/Dudleys match from 2000? The odds were against them before the show even began. That's even before you begin to factor in how mediocre the product is, how high the bar was set (supposedly, I haven't seen any of the show) by Ziggler and Harper as well as the ridiculous situation the WWE booked themselves in by having to build Cena but ATTEMPT to protect Rollins. 

They were doomed.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The tables match turned from plodding to completely overbooked. Rollins' looked like a total chump losing on like 3 different occasions, Cena takes out the security two times and still came out victorious with Reigns saving him. Plus if I wanted to get into real nit-picky mode, why would Reigns save Cena and ruin any chance he himself may have had to face Lesnar at RR? I could somewhat understand if he had come out and stopped Seth when he, Noble, and Mercury were going to triple power bomb Cena through the table, but he waited until after Big Show was out there and laid a beating on Cena. It didn't make any sense whatsoever.

Match was terrible, but tbh I wasn't really expecting anything good. Tables matches in general suck and this was no exception. I don't blame Cena or Rollins, it's just the way it was. I kind of feel * is generous for it, and I think anything over ** is kind of crazy and really overrating it. Then again, when stars get that low I wouldn't bother keeping track of them anyway. Bottomline is I think the match was complete trash, like most of the matches on the show.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

There have been some decent tables matches in recent years. Rhodes Scholars vs Luchadores at TLC 2012 is exactly how the gimmick should be done. Orton and Barrett had a really good one in 2011. And Sheamus has a knack for putting on fun tables matches.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

^Barrett and Orton had a decent one, forgot about it. Also just to clarify, I meant one on one tables matches. Tag team tables match I find can be pretty good. Can't recall that Rhodes Scholars/Luchadores match, but wouldn't surprise me if it was really good.

Also since you brought up Sheamus, I can only remember two tables matches of his. The Cena one at TLC 2009, which wasn't totally terrible but not anything I'd call decent either, and then the tables match with Sandow which was actually really good from what I remember. Don't know what others he's had.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*


#ROOT said:



Highlight of the show was Ambrose politely asking the Spanish announcers to move out of the way so he could use their table :lmao.

Click to expand...

No the highlight was Cole's flop during the Cena/Rollins match which surpassed CP3's phantom bump and Hugo Savonovich's slow motion bump at some Wrestlemania. I've just watched it like ten time in a row like a goof and it doesn't stop being funny. It's like 1hr 28 mins into the show when Rollins takes the FU onto the announce table. At the time it was the funniest thing I'd seen in the month of December (I have a boring light and haven't been watching comedies) but that only lasted until the Ambrose/Wyatt finish which left me in actual hysterics until my body started coughing itself into a seizure (might be an exaggeration (or is it?) (it is)) to get me to stop.

Show sucked. Don't watch any of it unless you like modern day Ladder and TLC Matches. Ziggler/Harper was not at all entertaining to watch. It was actually uncomfortable and you could tell from the get go how it was going. Just stupidly dangerous bumps that didn't look fancy and just cut them both to shreds. Their bodies looked like Funk's and Sabu's from their Barbed Wire Match except they were working a Ladder Match nobody will be talking about this time next year. The setup at ringside was so ignorantly dangerous too. Just way too many "toys" scattered everywhere and not enough space to take bumps. The gimmick has really run it's course now and I'm a bigger fan of Ladder Matches than most detractors but there's really just nothing entertaining left to be done within the lengths WWE are willing to go. Sure guys can still do flips off Ladders and I'll pop but it ain't happening in WWE. I'm all for bumps that look stiffy and nasty but these WERE stiff and nasty and didn't look good. That god stupid bump Ziggler took between the ropes was probably the best example of what I mean. Just a dangerous bump where the risk and damage done is nowhere near the reward. Apparently Harper wasn't hurt so his selling of that (also super stupid) suicide dive was amazing because I genuinely brought them going straight to the finish after that. Harper is really good once you get past the fact that he won't work like a guy his size should and bumps far too easily.

I kinda agree with Rah on Ziggler. I definitely don't think he's progressed at all this year and I don't look forward to his matches like I did at one point. I don't know about anyone ever calling him a great seller but rather a great bumper. There's a difference. I think he's a great bumper (although I can't really point to anything from this year to back that up so maybe was?) but I wouldn't call him a great seller. I can't remember a prolonger period of long term selling from him that stands out. He takes great bumps and I guess people pass the short term selling of a single bump off as good selling but that's not really selling, it's bumping. Ziggler is forever stuck in this role. Kinda sucks they gave Harper a nothing title run. Common sense would have been for Ziggler to work Show and Harper Rowan but instead they insist on beating guys that need wins. Don't give me that Big Show needs to be strong to lose to Reigns and Cena nonsense either. This wasn't a good match. You can call it entertaining in a perverse way but it wasn't a good match.

I only see Mizdow on PPVs for the most part now so I still get a kick out of it although I can see where Mike is coming from in saying it gets stale. I'm fine with them turning this into a comedy match because it probably wouldn't be all that good of a match worked straight up so at least Mizdow made this somewhat worth watching. Usos looked like the biggest geeks ever bringing their fake awards to the ring with them. It's goofy when heels do it but heels should be goofy, babyfaces shouldn't in the way they looked. Mizdow never got tagged in which I think is awesome. Finish was really lame and it actually pissed me off that I watched all of this for that finish. I should have known better. Also people do not watch TV at perfect 90 degree angles so you can see the screen and their face. 

Rowan/Show was awful. Who would have thought a Stairs Match would be a poor match. Only watched to see what Rowan brought. Hopefully he turns back soon because he has no future as a babyface (especially when they won't even let him win this) but they need heels at every level and he's a good heel worker in the ring. I think every gimmick match on this card brought the match quality down. They just forced the matches to be both guys running through spots with the weapon of choice and that doesn't make for good matches.

Cena/Rollins was a mess. It's really hard to sell a Tables Match when a table bump is such a transitional spot these days (see the main event). The 3 on 1 stuff was amusing for Cole's dumbass reaction when I'm pretty sure he ended Raw shouting that all this would be legal on Sunday when everyone interfered during Cena/Show (I'm obviously not spending my time watching that but I'm pretty sure I heard someone say he said that). Cena has no friends and all the babyfaces are bad people because nobody was interested in helping Cena. I just groaned when the ref bumped because I knew what was coming although I didn't expect THAT much overbooking. Figured Seth would win after that and they'd make the Rumble match a 3 way just because. The double table bump was really bad. No idea what they were supposed to be going for kayfabe wise. Ref stuff was horrific. 2 other refs come out to tell Chioda what happened but apparently they weren't watching the first table bump. Seriously how do these guys not consider this? It's the first that I thought of and I'm pretty sure I'm not that smart that I was one of so few to think these things through logically. One ref was pissed Seth didn't get the win. What a shithead. Reigns return might have meant something if he ever went away. Got a nice reaction though. Cole totally ruined another big moment by shouting all over it and repeating the same line over and over. They ruin everything good. 

AJ/Nikki had the best finish of the show because the heel cheated to win. Not sure why the spray knocked AJ out rather than just blinding her though. Also odd they did the same finish for the main event just an hour later essentially. 

Rusev/Swagger was bad. Swagger has no heat without Zeb or patriotic chants. That was a real tough one to call when they first feuded. Swagger is pretty bad in the ring. I don't even think it's that he's not over and I don't care. I don't even think he's all that good at this point. Very mechanical. Match was strangely short and had nothing to it. Crowd didn't care and they didn't care before the distraction either. Rusev has lost like all his steam since the October PPV. Brilliant.

TLC Match was decent but not something I'd call good. Hopefully these 2 get a no stips match with time and a finish because I still think it's something that be worth my time. This suffered from the gimmick being so done now. The TLC bumps just don't matter anymore because they're all transitional spots that they've taught us don't matter that aren't fresh anymore. Ambrose even whored out the only big Ladder bump in this match alone. Bray took that bump 3 times and never sold it. He took the same spot they did a big sell job off on TV and he never sold it. Commentators again took any intensity out of the match by joking around on commentary and treating it the same as Miz's matches and not an intense grudge match. Ambrose has good faces but I never got the sense from either of them that this was grudge match either. They both had spots they had to do and they did them. Nothing more, nothing less. Finish was hysterical like I mentioned before. I at least like how Cole mentioned why a monitor was under the ring even if it was BS. Ambrose tried to fix the front of his hair in the monitor when it was showing the back of his head. Ambrose came across as a stupid dumbass during all this. I'm guessing the intention was "OMG LUNATIC FRINGE HE'S SO CRAZY" but they really suck at booking Ambrose and it feels so fake and forced. Finish had fans laughing at how stupid Ambrose was. That says it all quite frankly. Maybe the monitor was supposed to blow up the first time but it's still a stupid spot that makes Ambrose look stupid not crazy. Not really sure what damage it was supposed to have done but I was too busy laughing to care. Oh and naturally they both have to kick out of each other's finishers just because.

Someone please gif Cole's bump and this show was worth watching then and only then.*


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Maybe I need to watch it again, as my internet connection was fucking up throughout that match for some reason and it kept freezing for 2-5 seconds at a time. I reset my router after that match and the rest of the event went fine. But watching it I just kept getting flash backs to Extreme Rules 2014 and I felt like it never became a real wrestling match, just overbooked nonsense.


You shouldn't be comparing this match to any match. I think that's one of the biggest problems here, look at it as its own match and forget about the past matches Cena has had for a minute. 

First, the overbooking in the Steel Cage match wasn't the only issue. The action inside of the ring was still very bad and both Cena and Wyatt looked unmotivated. There was no heart being put into it, the pacing was terrible and there was no flow to the match. It was a giant clusterfuck.

Yes, this tables match was overbooked to hell, and I'm one of those people who can't stand overbooked matches. But in this case it worked. The moments where Cena did gain an advantage over all three guys at least made sense, and they didn't go overboard with it. The only time he managed to take out both Joey and Noble in one fell swoop was with the use of the double AA, which was a really cool spot imo. Otherwise, Cena had to struggle again and again just to take them out. It was a unique way of going about the match rather than the steel cage match where Cena was taking out Harper and Rowan as if they were standing in line waiting to get their ass beat. And it wasn't like that I Quit match against the Miz where Cena was dominated literally the entire time and suddenly pulled out the win at the end. Instead, we actually saw Cena put up a fight even before the interference. 

On top of that, the in ring action was great, the story being told was clear and well done, the pacing was surprisingly very well done for a tables match, and they played to the concept of the match very well. 

Again, not a shit match by any means. But unfortunately the booking to it will cloud people's judgement on the matter.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

TLC 2014

*Dolph Ziggler v Luke Harper*

Lillian explaining the rules of a ladder match :lmao Ziggler takes mad bumps early in this one - the slam on the outside then off the top rope to the floor, plus catching the edge of the ladder on his forehead, or that's how it looked. Harper's suicide dive into the ladder was pretty sick, but looked dangerous as it looked as if his arm got caught in the ladder as he fell. One of the things I really liked about Ziggler is when he gets set up for the powerbomb attempt on the ladder, instead of just standing in wait for the attempt, he just falls to his knees, actually selling the beating he's already taking, not even being able to stand. The powerbomb on the ladder in the corner :mark: 

Just watching Ziggler's performance in this match alone (never mind what he's done to this point) just shows that Ziggler is one of the easiest babyfaces in the company to get behind. Not to be cliche, but a WM main event for this guy has to be in the cards for some years down the road. I'm afraid though for part-timers having dibs on that. Hard to tell. The commentary did a good job of putting Ziggler over in the match and after, but whether or not they keep it up remains to be seen. 

*Seth Rollins v John Cena*

Mercury and Noble pulling the table from the ring after Cena putting it in, then putting it back under the ring, then Rollins gets another table from under the ring :lmao :lmao Noble and Mercury's run in, knocking the table down that was setup before Rollins goes through it :lmao Top heels, in my opinion. Cena randomly getting the steel ring barrier while there are dozens of tables, ladders and chairs sitting around. Mercury doing work :mark: 

Tables matches can honestly go away. The stip didn't do anything but hold these guys back, as when they actually wrestle, they have good chemistry. The interference worked for me, but Cena just overcoming it all did no favors for Rollins. The sequence after the ref bump was awesome :mark: Noble and Mercury coming back to life :mark: It would have made sense if Rollins won after this with the evidence of him going through the table was "destroyed", but no, let's have him overcome the odds again. Whoa, did Cole die from Rollins bumping him off the table bump :lmao :lmao 

The finish was kind of ridiculous but I marked for Reigns, but mostly for his theme. Heyman randomly reappearing at the end of the match was funny, as he seemingly disappeared after making his entrance. Would have been fine for someone else to get a shot at Brock, as Cena doesn't need this, and it will probably have another DQ from interference. Either that, or I could see them having Cena win, and put over Reigns, and have Brock do whatever else, though Brock keeping the title until Mania is more likely.

Can't be asked to watch anything else from this show.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

TLC thoughts. Not throwing out any ratings cause I'm not too serious about them these days.

Ziggler/Harper seriously had me scared for both guy's careers. As soon as I saw Ziggler taking ridiculous bumps left and right and then watching the corner of the ladder fall directly onto his temple, I knew it was gonna get worse from there. Some of the shit Ziggler had to go through (that guillotine in the ropes while his head was wedged in the ladder should have NEVER happened in a WWE ring) easily could've concussed him or snapped his neck, plus Harper damn near broke his arm. Damn good entertainment in a car crash kinda way but I hope both guys are ok. Not really sure why Harper ever won the title to begin with though. MOTN by a fair margin.

Mizdow makes the matches pretty much worthless from a quality standpoint because everyone watches him the whole time. Harmless fun.

I actually enjoyed the stairs match. Just two big dudes clubbering each other for 10 minutes. Stupid match concept but fun to watch imo. A bit one sided though. I must say I enjoy angry giant Big Show more than any other version of him. Remember that World Title run in 2012? SHEW. That finish was pretty sick.

Tables match was totally awful in the first half, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy the last half. Rollins jumping over the table to try and setup Cena for the curb stomp was sick as shit and everything after that was pretty entertaining. Double AA through the table and the ref bump and the restart and then Rollins going nuts on the outside was all pretty cool. Reigns saving the day was fine (if not somewhat predictable) but god dammit I really did not wanna see Cena win again. If he wins at Royal Rumble then OMFG WHY? Anyway, I can completely understand both views on this match. Whether you loved it or you hated it, there's legitimate reasons for both and I get it. They had to overbook it to make it exciting. It probably would've been fine as a main event too considering the length and outcome. *Where the hell is Orton???*

What was next? Oh that Kane/Ryback chairs match. Yeah I didn't watch that, I was making a sandwich. Came back and Kane almost won. That's about all I saw. Ryback sucks.

Divas match happened here. Nikki sprayed something... yeah.

The main event was pretty damn underwhelming and I had a really hard time even concentrating considering NOTHING was at stake and they were just having a TLC match for the hell of it. I had already seen all these weapons used for 2 and a half hours so not much surprised me. Ambrose delivered 3 elbow drops off of a ladder through a table and other than that... there was about two spots that I remember. The cane to the eyes and Ambrose falling through a table off the middle rope. Seriously though, who the FUCK is booking these finishes to Ambrose's matches? They're becoming so ridiculous that I don't even wanna watch. Who comes up with these ideas? Shit was so flat and makes the whole match null en void. It just felt like an extended squash where Wyatt gets this shit beat out of him and then wins because of some sparks from a tv. Will Ambrose ever come out on top of a feud??? Who benefits from this? The fans? No. Wyatt? Hell no. Ambrose? How would he? 

I'll tell you right now, there's no way ANYONE else other than Roman Reigns or _maybe _Randy Orton is winning the Royal Rumble. Unless there's some huge surprise where Bryan returns, no one stands any chance. There's no credible faces left. Ambrose loses everything, Ziggler has already had his moments to shine, Cena is in the WWE Title match, Sheamus is injured (I guess?), and that's pretty much all I got. Ryback can stay the fuck away. If Cena wins the title... well then please give me Rusev.

How fuckin cool would it be if Undertaker was an entrant in the Rumble and won to get his revenge on Brock and win the title to have one last run? :faint:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)




----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Speaking of dangerous bumps in that Ziggler/Harper match, did anyone else notice how badly he could have fucked up his leg, knee or ankle when he fell off? He sort of twisted in the air and landed awkwardly. Looked really nasty. But yeah, it was hard to believe that match was a ladder match the way those guys were cut. Who knows, maybe they were going for that. 

And don't even get me started on Ambrose/Wyatt :lmao

I don't know what was more stupid, Ambrose realizing he was on TV or the fucking thing exploding in his face. 

Fuck this shit :lmao


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

#ROOT said:


>


Cole needs to rather stick to selling the network


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> Speaking of dangerous bumps in that Ziggler/Harper match, did anyone else notice how badly he could have fucked up his leg, knee or ankle when he fell off? He sort of twisted in the air and landed awkwardly. Looked really nasty. But yeah, it was hard to believe that match was a ladder match the way those guys were cut. Who knows, maybe they were going for that.
> 
> And don't even get me started on Ambrose/Wyatt :lmao
> 
> ...


When it comes to dangerous spots from that ladder match, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Harper diving through the ropes right into a ladder head first. How Ziggler could have pushed that ladder is the determining factor in whether or not Harper gets seriously injured in the process. That's a lot of trust to put in someone.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Only watched these matches...

Ladder Match **** (damn this match was brutal)
Rusev/Swagger *** (good but a bit short)
TLC Match ** (The stalling or rest time, the repeated table spot and dat finish :no

Back to not caring about the main product, can't wait for thursday :mark:

:lmao dat flop from Cole


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

This is all just a scheme to bring back the Authority. The product is weak, and then HHH and gang can take over again under the shroud of "saving" the product.

Or at least that's how I justify it. Now go watch Ziggler vs. Miz.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*One Night Stand Extreme Rules 2007*

Alrighty, it's time for... ummmm... genuinely don't remember a single match that takes place at this event :lmao. Guess that's what video packages before the PPV are for! 

*watches video package*

If I hit my head hard enough, will I forget all the matches again? 


*Randy Orton Vs RVD - Stretcher Match*

Fuck me, they show a video from LAST WEEK with Orton murdering RVD with punts and DDT's and RKO's, yet here is Mr ECW himself ready to compete. All the while HBK got taken out a month earlier from FAR LESS, and won't return until like, September? October? :lmao

So, RVD Vs Orton. On paper, this has potential for sure, as they have wrestled a bunch of times over the years and I've enjoyed quite a lot of their work together. However, as I'll likely mention over and over again in this ramble (hey, you all have that to look forward to!), gimmick matches in WWE most of the time tend to prevent the guys from having one of their better matches together.

After all those shots to the head a week earlier, RVD is out for some major revenge and starts the match off with a kick right to Orton's fucking head :mark:. And more of that comes Orton's way in the early going :mark:. It's mainly awesome because Orton can sell head shots better than 90% of everyone ever probably.

One shot to RVD's head and he's out of it. He tries to go for the 5 Star Frog Splash, but ends up falling off the ropes to the floor and seems to be confused. Actually thought it was a botch at first and was about to " :lmao " but then I realised it was actually supposed to happen and instead I :mark: .

:lmao RVD did that spinning legdrop kick thingy off the apron to Orton who was on the stretcher, and he basically spanked him instead :lmao. No idea where RVD WANTED to land the legdrop, but it hit nothing but ASS lol.

I could probably have made about 10 gifs of RVD killing himself/getting killed from this one match alone lol. No wonder he took some time off after this .

Like that the stretcher didn't come into play until right at the end. Whole match was better than I thought it might be given the stipulation. Everything was focused on HEAD (ha). Orton wanted to finish RVD off (ha), and RVD wanted to return the favour (ha... ok I'll stop now). Both men sell the effects extremely well, and the finish played into that too, with RVD getting somewhat of an upset victory but done in a way that made sense. Aaaand then Orton KILLS RVD with a Punt .

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


Vince is looking forward to facing Lashley one on one tonight... but he has a bad feeling that something awful is going to happen to him soon. Wonder what he means :side: .


*Sandman, Tommy Dreamer & CM Punk Vs Elijah Burke, Matt Striker & Marcus Cor Von - 6 Man Tag Team Tables Match*

MARCUS COR VON :mark:. THE POOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUNCE~!

Random Dudley Boy's reference with Dreamer and Punk doing the whole "GET THE TABLES" schtick lol. Actually forgot for a moment that this was a tables match until that happened :lmao.

Match is... kinda odd. A bit of a mess with them starting off as a normal tag then suddenly remembering that there are no DQ's or anything, and from there it goes downhill mostly because Sandman is staggering around not really knowing what the fuck to do, Dreamer is sucking, Striker is mostly sucking, Burke is being awful, and Punk and Cor Von are trying their best to keep things entertaining but everyone else is screwing it up for them :lmao.

Superplex to Striker onto Burke through a table ends the match as it's not one of those fun elimination table matches .

Also we didn't get a POUNCE .

.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Hulk Hogan and Test apparently had a love child...











*The Hardy Boys Vs World's Greatest Tag Team - World Tag Team Championship Ladder Match*

Huh, don't remember this match being a thing lol.

In fact, I don't remember Hass and Benjamin being a team again at this point in time lol.

Anyways, cool little spot with everyone going outside the ring and bringing a ladder in to use as a weapon. The Hardy's realise what's happened and throw their ladders down and dropkick Hass and Benjamin's ladders right back into their faces!

Nice use of the multiple ladders too, I think some stuff was done that I've actually NEVER SEEN BEFORE, which is rare as fuck in ladder matches after like 2002 .

The match slows down like fuck once WGTT gain full control, and the fans even boo just how shit some of their ladder offence is :lmao.

Apparently the FOUR FUCKING LADDERS IN THE RING aren't enough, so 2 of those really big ones are brought down by the Hardy's. Urgh. AND THEY DON'T EVEN TRY TO USE THEM TO CLIMB UP AND WIN. In fact, they only actually use one of them. AND THEY DON'T EVEN PUT IT IN THE RING. God I hate ladder matches sometimes lol.

Oh ffs. now everyone is just fumbling about with ladders and not even remotely trying to climb one and win the fucking match.

Fucking hell, just remembered that the TLC PPV is on tomorrow too. MORE SHITTY LADDER MATCHES YEY~! (edit: TLC has happened and yup, MORE SHITTY LADDER MATCHES~!)

Poor Shelton, keeps botching spots :lmao.

Aaaaand then Shelton dies. Hardy Boys retain. I wish to never see this match again.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Joy. They follow up that match with a Khali promo. Not sure which is the biggest trainwreck.


*Mark Henry Vs Kane - Lumberjack Match*

:lmao thought they'd done some stupid editing here and changed Benoit's theme song, but turns out it's just some generic shit for all the ECW lumberjacks to come out to. I think. Was Chris Masters in ECW in 07? Wait, the draft isn't until the next night. Guessing this is a mix of ECW and SD guys then, right?

Hmmm... actually they might have edited shit out there, as there was no commentary during the entrances, and this event likely would have been released just after the Benoit incident so I guess anything is possible. Wait... maybe not lol. They did just mention Benoit by name. FUCK KNOWS :lmao.

10 seconds into the match and the lumberjacks are already made useless, when Kane gets thrown to the outside and nobody dares touch him.

Apparently they don't fear Henry though, as everyone jumps on him to throw him back in. And he throws them all off like a BOSS. So ummm... WHY IS THIS A LUMBERJACK MATCH?!?!

THEY'RE WRESTLING ON THE OUTSIDE AND NOBODY IS DOING SHIT ABOUT IT.

:lmao at least this is more funny that annoying, I guess . Plus, I can't be TOO mad during a KANE VS HENRY match when they are doing some good shit :mark:.

Henry is awesome. Just thought everyone needed to know. In case they didn't. But they should. Because he is.

Well damn, a BEARHUG spot in a match I liked? Impressive! Kane escaping with a choke and how it was all done was sweeeet as fuck. And that was the only real "slow" part of the match so far, with both guys always on the move or performing some kind of offence the rest of the time.

Chavo and Dykstra randomly jump Kane in the ring and... somehow the match is no longer No DQ? WHAT? :lmao

That distraction allows Henry to grab Kane in another Bearhug, and THE REFEREE CALLS FOR THE BELL. Henry beat KANE WITH A BEARHUG!

Fun and pretty good match between two big bastards!

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Vince McMahon & Bobby Lashely - ECW Championship Street Fight*

:lmao Lashley botches THE FIRST MOVE and nearly kills himself :lmao.

He tries that dive he does over the ropes to try and take out Umaga... and his leg gets caught on the ropes :lmao.

Thankfully he isn't injured, maybe a little sore, but he's right back in the match like nothing happened about a minute later.

DDT ON THE STEEL CHAIR~! WHICH MISSED THE CHAIR~! BUT THEY PRETEND IT DIDN'T~!

:lmao Vince hits the worst spear ever. Worse than what Edge does. WORSE THAN EDGE. Think about that for a second.

Fuck me this is boring. Just Vince, Shane and Umaga slowly beating up Lashley and trying to pin him. Lashley keeps kicking out, and they repeat the 3 on 1 beating again.

Chair shots to Vince. Then right back to a 3 on 1 beating.

SHANE O'MAC ELBOW THROUGH THE ANNOUNCE TABLE~! Best part of the match so far. This should have been Lashley Vs Shane.

I wonder how far Lashley's push would have gone had he stayed with the company. They were clearly looking to turn him into the new Next Big Thing... and then he left. Kinda like Lesnar .

Oh, Lashley wins his ECW title back btw. Last couple of minutes are the only parts worth watching. Except for the botch at the start lol .

*Rating: 3/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Melina Vs Candice Michelle - Pudding Match*

Ummmm... no.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Edge Vs Batista - World Heavyweight Championship Steel Cage Match*

Well the last match I saw between the two sucked balls (Vengeance). Hopefully this will be better. Not holding my breath though. Although it wouldn't matter if I did. I'd still end up opening my mouth and taking in a breath at some point. It isn't possible to die like that because your body simply won't let you lol. Stupid fucking saying. Who came up with it? The french?

Batista's offence looks... pretty darn good in the early going of this. Nothing special, just clubbing clotheslines and even basic suplex, but they were all executed extremely well and looked vicious as FUCK.

Then Edge starts getting shit in and it's... kinda shit.

BOOOOOOORING.

They do the boring finish with both guys trying to escape at the same time from different angles, teasing the good guy getting the win but the bad guy hits the floor first. If I had skipped this, I would have missed nothing.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*John Cena Vs The Great Khali - WWE Championship Falls Count Anywhere Match*

So people whose wrestling opinions I value say this is a good match. They'd better not be wrong... .

Did... did Khali just hit a roundhouse kick? Either that or the Coke I'm drinking has real coke in it.

Huh. This actually IS good. So far, anyway. Could still go to hell, but I'm hoping it doesn't because this is FUN .

Cena actually comes across as an underdog for a change, thanks to Khali being so damn big and actually looking pretty IMPRESSIVE on offence. Seriously. He looks like a competent wrestler here! Cena is putting over all of Khali's shit too by taking big bumps from simple moves and making it seem like Khali can't be stopped (even though this is a rematch from JD, when Cena WON lol).

Khali pretty much dominates this entire match, with Cena just getting the odd shot in here and there in order to stay alive, before he starts to get a little more in as we go into the finish.

Cena makes good use of his environment when they go out into the crowd and up to the stage and shit too. He's doing anything he can to try and stop the giant, and I like it!

In the end, an F-U from a crane to the floor FINALLY puts Khali down for a 3, and Cena retains.

Well bugger me sideways and call me Julie; this was really fucking good! Best Khali match? Hmmm... still leaning towards the LMS with Undertaker (obviously lol), but this is tremendous too.

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 7*​


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Thought that Khali/Cena ER match was pretty decent but under *** for sure. I prefer their Judgment Day match (which was miles better than it had any right to be). Two of Khali's best though. 

Just realized that I did my TLC review and completely forgot about Rusev/Swagger. :lol Shows you how meaningful it was. It was like 3 minutes of Swagger being held in the Accolade...


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Lol TLC I'm not wasting my time watching that shit. This whole NXT vs. WWE thing is fantastic though. Best booked angle of 2015 coming up. And yep, Takeover R Evolution is probably the second best show of the year, only after Mania. It smokes everything else on PPV and it not only left me feeling satisfied but it also made me want more. It's official, NXT is sex. Any bit of wonder we all like it so much.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> This is all just a scheme to bring back the Authority. The product is weak, and then HHH and gang can take over again under the shroud of "saving" the product.
> 
> Or at least that's how I justify it. Now go watch Ziggler vs. Miz.


With Cena the only person that can bring back the authority, why not make his life a living hell by actually kayfabe burying the fuck out of him? That's why I didn't like that he won last night. Not that the authority wants Cena to do well but that could have been the start of a tailspin..When the authority was in charge, Cena got title matches... now he uh still does..lol

Instead we will get Sting begging for a mania match. Lame.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

*WWE TLC...A S....2014 *


Lana and her red skirt good God...that tight skirt changes color but doesen't change quality. That Ass just doesen't quit.

Reigns I'm pulling for you man but your promo made Jeff Farmer cringe. I understand he's been away and live PPV gives a lot of pressure but the man didn't make an attempt to even cover up...he has a lot to prove still. But I am pulling for him. It's about time the fans give someone a chance.

The ladder match was as good as I felt it'd be.

Went six for eight on my predictions, seven for eight if you count that I said mizdow would retain.

Big Show is my only wrong winner.

I enjoyed it here are my ratings and I have to New additions to my star ratings list.



Ziggler-Harper LADDER MATCH - ***** 1/2*

Miz and Mizdow-Uso's TAG TITLE MATCH - *** 1/2*

Big Show-Rowan STAIRS MATCH - *** 3/4*

Seth Rollins-John Cena TABLES MATCH - *****

AJ LEE-Niki Bella DIVAS MATCH - ** 1/2*

The Ryback-Kane CHAIRS MATCH - ****

Rusev-Jack Swagger US TITLE MATCH - ****

Bray Wyatt-Dean Ambrose TLC MATCH - ******




Okay, the ladder match was better then I thought it'd be. Top ten match of the year. One element I really liked outside the creativity and original ladder spots was the character development with Luke Harper. I felt like I got to know his character better through this match and big ups to the commentary team putting over the match as well as they did when it ended. The hometown crowd helped add to this match like Chicago does with punk to a much lesser degree. After this and survivor series Dolph has really established himself so I'm interested to see how he's booked from here on out. I knew there were too many guys in the running for the main title so giving him back the IC Title was logical and helps added loss prestige to that belt. I also thought the execution to every move felt genuine and was done with tremendous skill.


The tag match may of been comedy driven but I felt it was executed at a fantastic pace. The tremendous opening with nearfalls I'm a huge mark for that stuff for some reason and then the half crab by the usos was a nice aaddition. This was a full on 6 and a half minute match that was worked well and overshadowed by the comedy from Moscow that really delivered as well. I like the influx of countout, dq decisions that's what they did in the old days.

I thought big show and Rowan did what they could in the stairs match good not great show has really gotta go

I know people are missing in Cena Rollins but I felt it was watchable. Certainly not great but no where near awful. It relied on interference and overlooking. I remember at tlc 11 cena fought barrett and I liked that match as they used defensive strategies that were quite clever. This was just okay.

Divas and chairs were blah

US title was short on time but did what they could I enjoyed rusevs foot shot to the head of swagger during the ankle lock.

Bryan and Ambrose went out there and had a nice war as expected.

For the people who didn't like the finish...it was fine sting can't debut to close every show and the right guy won though I'd like to see Ambrose booked strongly from here on out.


----------



## HOJO (Feb 25, 2012)

Just gonna quote what I typed out in the VIP section because I don't feel like finding a new way of wording my hatred:

This is the type of match that makes you do 5 things: Love both of these guys, hate the crowd, like the match, despise wrestling and absolutely despise the fucktards who come up with the ending to this match. This is TNA level garbage with how they did that ending. NOBODY LOOKED GOOD OR BENEFITED FROM THAT PIECE OF SHIT ENDING. Not Ambrose because he electrocuted himself like a flaming dipshit, not Wyatt, not me for watching it, not anyone else who watched it, not the crowd, not the announcers, not the other workers on the show, not the Network, not the company. NOBODY. It's like when Sting lost a match on PPV by accidentally hitting the back of his fucking head on a chair doing his own finisher. IT WAS SHIT

This is probably the deepest point in my time watching wrestling(literally my entire life), where I'm thinking to myself, "Fuck this, I'm done. I don't care."


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Miss Kana's Christmas Party said:


> Just gonna quote what I typed out in the VIP section because I don't feel like finding a new way of wording my hatred:
> 
> This is the type of match that makes you do 5 things: Love both of these guys, hate the crowd, like the match, despise wrestling and absolutely despise the fucktards who come up with the ending to this match. This is TNA level garbage with how they did that ending. NOBODY LOOKED GOOD OR BENEFITED FROM THAT PIECE OF SHIT ENDING. Not Ambrose because he electrocuted himself like a flaming dipshit, not Wyatt, not me for watching it, not anyone else who watched it, not the crowd, not the announcers, not the other workers on the show, not the Network, not the company. NOBODY. It's like when Sting lost a match on PPV by accidentally hitting the back of his fucking head on a chair doing his own finisher. IT WAS SHIT
> 
> This is probably the deepest point in my time watching wrestling(literally my entire life), where I'm thinking to myself, "Fuck this, I'm done. I don't care."




Literally *ALL FANS* have these or "THIS" paticular moment and some stop watching for awhile. I had this moment in December of 2005. I didn't follow again until 2008...and then every year since I've been off and on....I've just started following again right after Summerslam. Yeah...it's been REALLY bad but I'm following it for lack of nothing better to do.

I really enjoy the PPV's..and it's Rumble-Mania season, so I don't see a reason not to watch.

I also find people's personal lives and their current MOOD plays a large factor when these "MOMENTS ARE".

Not trying to be Dr. Macho Mark, just saying...


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Post-Summerslam Raw - this show happening right now has to be the worst string of WWE TV (not including NXT) in how long? Years, for sure, but how long exactly? At least in 2009, you have a good Smackdown show. The entire product is the drizzling shits right now and it's unbearable.


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

*WWE TLC 2014*

Kickoff: Goldust & Stardust vs The New Day (Big E & Kofi Kingston) *1/2

WWE Intercontinental Championship - Ladder Match
Luke Harper (c) vs Dolph Ziggler ***1/4

WWE Tag Team Championship
The Miz & Damien Mizdow (c) vs The Usos 1/2*

Stairs Match
Big Show vs Erick Rowan 1/2*

Tables Match
John Cena vs Seth Rollins :clap :cool2

WWE Diva's Championship
Nikki Bella (c) vs AJ Lee 1/4*

Chairs Match
Kane vs Ryback *1/2

WWE United States Championship
Rusev (c) vs Jack Swagger 1/2*

TLC Match
Dean Ambrose vs Bray Wyatt **1/4

Overall Rating: 2.0


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Brock is here. THANK FUCKING GOD. I've seen way too much Chris Jericho in less than two hours.


----------



## RATED R RULES (May 27, 2007)

Sooo anything on Raw actually worth watching? 

Also just watched REvolution. Now that was a great show. Giving the main event ****1/4. Really top stuff. Love the chemistry of these two. Can just imagine them losing Neville in the pack with a stupid gimmick when he moves up soon though


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Should I watch RAW or should I watch some more 85 Mid South?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

RatedR10 said:


> Post-Summerslam Raw - this show happening right now has to be the worst string of WWE TV (not including NXT) in how long? Years, for sure, but how long exactly? At least in 2009, you have a good Smackdown show. The entire product is the drizzling shits right now and it's unbearable.


Bump because I'm curious. I honestly can't remember a 4-month string of shows like this. It's not even like it's just a show here and there, they have been consistently shit for 4 months now across the board. Raw, Smackdown, Main Event and the PPVs.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

There are lots of periods worse. 2006 from July to December for instance was hopeless. I don't think anything interesting happened during that period.

EDIT: Decided to watch the one thing that interests me in this company. Dolph Ziggler sold his arm very well tonight. Take that, doubters.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Spoiler: aspoiler



Way I see it this "partnership" ends in one of five ways:

1. this was done to avert the obvious Reigns/Lesnar and give Brock a head start out so Rollins double crosses Lesnar and walks out with belt (the most interesting scenerio)
2. Cena beats Lesnar, Rollins beats Cena keeping Heyman in circulation when Brock most likely leaves
3. Nothing outside of the plain plan happens and Rollins is simply fodder for Reigns to go through en route to facing Lesnar (my bet)
4. Vintage Heyman dishonoring a partnership and beats Rollins in a cash-in (I am skeptical on this since WWE is really trying to protect Rollins for long term prospects)
5. This whole thing is a poor excuse for Cena to bring the authority back


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

I remember this time last year being similarly bad as well, actually probably worse. 

In my opinion only the last few weeks have been truly bad. For the most part the latter half of this year has been okay, and I thought the build to Survivor Series was very good. I haven't cared that much about Survivor Series in a number of years.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

Twisted14 said:


> I remember this time last year being similarly bad as well, actually probably worse.
> 
> In my opinion only the last few weeks have been truly bad. For the most part the latter half of this year has been okay, and I thought the build to Survivor Series was very good. I haven't cared that much about Survivor Series in a number of years.


Yes but that is faint praise since I can't remember a Survivor Series worth caring about in at least 9 years.

We're in a bad patch right now but I'd most likely chuck a vote at September-Dec 2011 as worse than Sep-Dec this year.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WWE always seems to give up around this time. They try and put effort (TRY lol) from RR to WM time, then cool down, try to make SummerSlam big (again, TRY lol), then give up until time for the RR. Been like that for years now.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> WWE always seems to give up around this time. They try and put effort (TRY lol) from RR to WM time, then cool down, try to make SummerSlam big (again, TRY lol), then give up until time for the RR. Been like that for years now.


Tbf there was that brief period building up to the famous Money in the Bank PPV in 2011 where the product seemed to be much better.

Anyways, I just got done rewatching the TLC PPV. And I have to say, my perception on it changed pretty drastically compared to when I first saw it.

Me and my friends gave little to no shits that night. We were there to have a good time, and we did. We enjoy every match (that we paid attention to, sorry Swagger/Rusev) and I guess it made us look past the bad parts of them. Anyways, here's a few changes I'm making to my review regarding that:

First, I give the tag team match a **. For a match involving the Uso's, this was pretty lackluster. Mizdow was funny and all, but his gimmick can and has brought down the quality of matches at times. Well see how they continue to use him going forward. Saw the full Rusev/Swagger match. I give them some credit for doing what they could with such little time, and as I said before, these two seem to have incredible chemistry in the ring. I give them **1/4. My rating for the Divas match remains the same. 

I actually felt Ziggler/Harper deserved a better rating than what I originally gave them. I give them a ****1/4. And the people who say there was no story told in the match have no clue what they're talking about. As for Ambrose/Wyatt, I give them a ****. I don't know why I liked the repeated table spots when I was there, because when I watched them again I hated it. But it doesn't take away from the rest of the match and their use of the TLC concept was incredible. 

Now on to the rest. First, I still give Ryback/Kane some credit for making their match more enjoyable than it should have been. But regardless, I think the original rating I gave for it was a little too big. My new rating for it is **1/4. I feel this way as well about Show/Rowan. I change my rating for them to **3/4. 

Now onto the last one I wanted to discuss, Rollins/Cena. My new match rating for this one is ***, my biggest change since my original rating for it was ***3/4. I still think people underrate the hell out of this match, but I can see why they disliked it. The concept of Cena overcoming multiple people is redundant, and did take away from the match at times. And another thing along with my reasoning for the decreasing of ratings for most of the other matches was the lack of crowd involvement. It just killed the atmosphere and made it hard to really get into the match. I think part of it was due to the crowd just being terrible in general, but I think the in ring work and booking provided could have been much, much better.

So, all in all, my overall rating changes from a 7/10 to a 5.5/10. Not one of the worst PPV's of the year by any means, but I can see why people disliked it. I do think they are being way too harsh on some of the matches, but again, that's just my opinion.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Damn. Zep's reign as moderator is unmatched already. Just look at the improvements he made to this website. Mobile is actually not impossible.

Does anybody like Dick Slater?


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Any thoughts on Cena/Rollins cage match. Solid ***1/2 match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Long & bad. Nothing like kicking out of an FU five minutes into a pointless gimmick match made on RAW.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Damn. Zep's reign as moderator is unmatched already. Just look at the improvements he made to this website. Mobile is actually not impossible.
> 
> Does anybody like Dick Slater?


 Pure coincidence. 

Willing to take a match request if i have it and it's not already online. ill spot it tomorrow, as im off now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You got access to some ROH stuff circa 2005 - 2008? Wait, how's about Jimmy Jacobs vs Tyler Black Steel Cage from 2009?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HAYLEY'S XMAS TWITTER NUDES said:


> You got access to some ROH stuff circa 2005 - 2008? Wait, how's about Jimmy Jacobs vs Tyler Black Steel Cage from 2009?


Got all of the 05/06 PPV'S. Don't think I have that cage match though, only their match what's on the God's Last Gift dvd. (From HD Net Vol.1) Might have to PM this as it's ROH stuff.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, I figured a PM was more suitable for the content. 

2005 & 2006 only, eh? Let me look for something I'd want & I'll send you a PM.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Brock said:


> Got all of the 05/06 PPV'S. Don't think I have that cage match though, only their match what's on the God's Last Gift dvd. (From HD Net Vol.1) Might have to PM this as it's ROH stuff.


Wait, you take ROH requests through PMs? If so, that's awesome :mark: I've been wanting to see some ROH matches, especially Bryan's reign as ROH Champion.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lol Did the WWE even advertise this Live Smackdown? I did get to catch Ziggler/Rollins which was really fun. Especially loved the last few minutes where Ziggler punched and kicked Rollins' injured ribs which Rollins sold well, which then led to a sequence that ended with a sick kick from Rollins. And then the J&J interference that teased a possible dirty finish which actually became something even better. Oh man, great main event. And to make things better, Ziggler is still selling that arm from TLC. And on top of that, Ziggler showed us once again after the match how much he cares about the Intercontinental Title.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :lol Did the WWE even advertise this Live Smackdown? I did get to catch Ziggler/Rollins which was really fun. Especially loved the last few minutes where Ziggler punched and kicked Rollins' injured ribs which Rollins sold well, which then led to a sequence that ended with a sick kick from Rollins. And then the J&J interference that teased a possible dirty finish which actually became something even better. Oh man, great main event. And to make things better, Ziggler is still selling that arm from TLC. And on top of that, Ziggler showed us once again after the match how much he cares about the Intercontinental Title.




They most certainly did and if I (who skips half the show) caught it a few times I'm surprised anyone missed it. They even advertised it in the CLOSING Line of Raw last night.


That was one fine as fuck television match between Rollins and Ziggler.

13 minutes long, just over 10 in TV time which gave us a lot of bang for our buck.

Rollins in 48 hours cuts a promo backstage at the PPV then competes in Table's Match with Cena, opens Raw with a promo and main events a Cage match with Cena, not before cutting a promo before that match.

Rollins then comes out for the Ryback match (didn't see what happened but all I saw was another promo between him and Ziggler making a match tonight)

CUTS ANOTHER PRE-Match Promo then has a classic tv match with Dolph.


5 promo's and 3 (MAYBE 4 if he actually wrestled Ryback) in 48 hours...

Looks like Seth is getting PLENTY of time to work on those mic skills I bashed on here last week.


Not bad.

Ziggler is just awesome. He does this every show and for people complaining about how BAD the WWE is today or Since Summerslam, he's been the main consistent thing. Some weeks he is booked in pointless mediocre tag matches but the dude usually is on pace for delivering a tremendous match every week and a half.


I loved the selling, pacing, psychology in the main event between Ziggler and Rollins.

All of the nearfalls made total sense given the background of both character's who are fatigued.

Added it to my list.



******



Maybe these guys can rest...Oh wait, there's ANOTHER show tomorrow...good god, these guys sure earn their pay.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :lol Did the WWE even advertise this Live Smackdown? I did get to catch Ziggler/Rollins which was really fun. Especially loved the last few minutes where Ziggler punched and kicked Rollins' injured ribs which Rollins sold well, which then led to a sequence that ended with a sick kick from Rollins. And then the J&J interference that teased a possible dirty finish which actually became something even better. Oh man, great main event. And to make things better, Ziggler is still selling that arm from TLC. And on top of that, Ziggler showed us once again after the match how much he cares about the Intercontinental Title.


After Ziggler's match on Sunday that might not be him selling. Probably is but that match was pretty brutal. I loved it and I'm probably more on the side of the people calling it a ****+ match. Harper was oddly slow at some points but he plays a character that is very odd. I kind of liked that he would just be staring at Ziggler or a ladder or the belt with just an odd look on his face. 



Anyway I just watched the NXT special on the Network and it was eye opening. You can make an argument about which roster has the better talent or whatever and that's not something I really want to get in to right now. What I took away is that if NXT was it's own wrestling company I could see myself following it over the WWE just because of how everyone involved in the show handled themselves. Other than maybe a handful of references throughout the show there wasn't much indication that I was watching the minor league show. The show was built around Zayn winning the belt and they all acted as if this was the biggest night of his career. His title win was a big deal that night and everyone acted like it was. 

The commentary wasn't amazing or anything but they took the matches seriously, actually said the names of some wrestling moves, and didn't make jokes at inappropriate times. They were professionals. 

I even liked the atmosphere and the crowd better than just about any crowd the WWE is in front. The fans took the matches seriously. Yeah they can be a little smarky or annoying but they all seem to enjoy what they see. The Divas match was probably the most glaring example of the crowd. AJ and Nikki Bella had a match at TLC and it wasn't anything too amazing I thought. I feel like if they did move for move the same thing here I would have probably liked the match. The crowd took Charlotte and Sasha Banks seriously. As in they were paying attention and treated it just like they would any other match. 

Oh and as someone that just watches a ton of wrestling from all sorts of places I felt that there were a few little nods to me. The first being that when Kevin Owens (might take some time to get used to that) made his debut the referee for the match was Drake Younger which was cool to see as Steen used to spend a lot of time talking about how great of guy Drake is and that he's the nicest person in the world. Then when Charlotte has her match the referee is none other than Little Naitch himself Charles Robinson. And then the ending was cool but the celebration just went on and on and you just knew Owens was going to attack Sami. But then the NXT logo popped up on the screen. As long as I can remember that's the logo that they put on the screen as the show goes off air. Once that logo appears the show is over and once you see the logo Sami should be safe. And then he gets attacked. There were some nice little things about the show that I really liked and they enhanced it for me without possibly making the show worse for anyone. 

I enjoyed the show as it had some guys that I haven't much of in a while because I generally don't watch NXT but it also made me realize that the WWE being the WWE might be the problem with the WWE.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I didn't watch the show because of these fucking stupid extended holiday hours in our mall, but they for real ran Reigns vs. FANDANGO and Rollins vs. Ziggler for the 10th time on like the only live Smackdown of the year? #InsertFacePalmSmileyHereButIDKWhereItIs ...

Rusev is gonna feud with Ryback??? :crying:


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Hopefully Rusev crushes him.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> And to make things better, Ziggler is still selling that arm from TLC


Ziggler didn't sell an arm injury during the actual ladder match, though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Can't mention stuff like that, Rah. He's a "great worker".


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, i really enjoyed Ziggler/Harper, but it did annoy me that the announcers were saying "He broke his arm", which Harper sold for a very short time. Thought that may form the basis for the rest of the match TBH, but it didn't.

Still liked the match though. :shrug


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's b/c the spot it happened on was some pointless & reckless dive, Harper got really banged up & the commentary couldn't do anything but acknowledge it. Problem w/the match in a nutshell.

Then again this was referring more originally to Dolph, but I didn't like any of the match so it all fits, I suppose.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cody since when do you dislike Dolph?!?


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

I know there's still Two Raw's, Tribute to the Troops (Boot Camp Match) and a Smackdown! left but here goes...



*Top 30 Matches of the Year 2014:*



*MOTY- * -The Wyatt Family (Bray Wyatt, Erick Rowan and Luke Harper) vs The Shield (Roman Reigns, Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins) 6 Man Tag Team Match WWE Elimination Chamber February 23 2014 ***** 3/4*






Then...




-Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan vs Batista Triple Threat WWE World Heavyweight Championship Match Wrestlemania 30 April 6 2014 ***** 1/2*



-The Authority (Randy Orton, Triple H, Kane) vs The Shield (Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose) Six Man Tag Team Match WWE Extreme Rules May 4 2014 ***** 1/2*



-Bray Wyatt vs John Cena Last Man Standing Match WWE Payback June 1 2014 ***** 1/2*



-Seth Rollins vs Dean Ambrose vs Rob Van Dam vs Kofi Kingston vs Dolph Ziggler vs Jack Swagger WWE Heavyweight Championship Contract MITB Ladder Match WWE Money in the Bank June 29 2014 ***** 1/2*





-Luke Harper vs Dolph Ziggler IC Title Ladder Match WWE TLC December 14 2014 ***** 1/2*



-Bray Wyatt vs Daniel Bryan WWE Royal Rumble January 26 2014 ***** 1/4*


-John Cena vs Antonio Cesaro WWE Raw Feruary 17 2014 ***** 1/4*



-The Wyatt Family (Bray Wyatt, Erick Rowan and Luke Harper) vs The Shield (Roman Reigns, Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins) 6 Man Tag Team Match WWE Monday Night Raw March 3 2014 ***** 1/4*


-Daniel Bryan vs Triple H Winner goes to Main Event WWE Wrestlemania 30 April 7 2014 ***** 1/4*



-Evolution (Triple H, Dave Batista and Randy Orton) vs The Shield (Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose) Six Man Elimination No Holds Barred Tag Team Match WWE Payback June 1 2014 ***** 1/4*



-Adrian Neville vs Sami Zayn vs Tyler Breeze vs Tyson Kidd NXT World Title Fatal Fourway Match WWE NXT September 11 2014 ***** 1/4*


-Stardust and Goldust vs The Uso's World Tag Title Match WWE Night of Champions September 21 2014 ***** 1/4*


-Sheamus vs Antonio Cesaro US Title Match WWE Night of Champions September 21 2014 ***** 1/4*


-Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho WWE Night of Champions September 21 2014 ***** 1/4*


-Dean Ambrose vs Seth Rollins Hell in a Cell Match WWE Hell in a Cell October 26 2014 ***** 1/4*


-Dolph Ziggler vs Tyson Kidd vs Antonio Cesaro Triple Threat Elimination IC Title Match WWE Smackdown! November 14 2014 ***** 1/4*


-Team Cena (Dolph Ziggler, John Cena, Erick Rowan, The Big Show, Ryback) vs Team Authority (Seth Rollins, Luke Harper, Mark Henry, Rusev and Corporate Kane) Ten Man Elimination Match WWE Survivor Series November 23 2014 ***** 1/4*


-Adrian Neville vs Sami Zayn NXT Championship Match WWE NXT TakeOver: R Evolution December 11 2014 ***** 1/4*




-Bray Wyatt vs Dean Ambrose Tables Ladders and Chairs Match WWE TLC December 14 2014 ***** 1/4*



-Antonio Cesaro vs Dolph Ziggler IC Title Match WWE Smackdown! 10/24/14 ******



-Dolph Ziggler vs Randy Orton IC Title Match October 20 2014 ******




-Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan WWE Raw February 3 2014 ******




-Dolph Ziggler vs Luke Harper WWE Smackdown! November 27 2014 ******




-Bray Wyatt vs Chris Jericho WWE Summerslam August 17 2014 ******




-Bray Wyatt vs Chris Jericho Cage Match WWE Raw September 8 2014 ******



-Dolph Ziggler vs Seth Rollins WWE Super Smackdown! Live December 16 2014 ******




-The Shield (Roman Reigns, Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins) vs The Wyatt Family (Bray Wyatt, Erick Rowan and Luke Harper) WWE The Main Event April 8 2014 ******



-The Shield (Roman Reigns, Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins) vs Sheamus, Daniel Bryan and Christian 6 Man Tag Team Match WWE Smackdown! Februry 14 2014 ******



-Antonio Cesaro vs Sheamus WWE Payback June 1 2014 ******






----

*
-FEW HM's...*



-John Cena vs Seth Rollins Cage Match WWE Raw December 15 2014 ******-Bray Wyatt vs 


-Bray Wyatt vs Sheamus WWE Raw June 16 2014 ******


-Antonio Cesaro vs Dolph Ziggler 2 out of 3 Falls IC Title Match WWE Hell in a Cell October 24 2014 B]*** 1/2[/B]



----


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

*machomark*, did you ever watch _The Real Americans Vs Rhodes Dynasty (Main Event 18/03)_ and _Sheamus vs Ambrose (Smackdown 09/05)_?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Cody since when do you dislike Dolph?!?


His babyface stuff isn't having the legs I'd hoped following his outings last year. Between his poor booking showcasing him as a constant underdog - when he isn't even close to being one in terms of actual ability & status - & general mold to work matches that culminate as long winded finishing stretches, I can't tolerate much these days. :hayley2


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

No Elimination Chamber match in your top 30 Austin? That surprises me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

> -Stardust and Goldust vs The Uso's World Tag Title Match WWE Night of Champions September 21 2014 **** 1/4


vintage Austin101


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

No I haven't seen those two matches I'll get on it thanks 

Yeah I liked thay night of champions vintage 101 fine with me

Elimination chamber was match of the year unless your talking about the actual chamber match I haven't seen it yet let me watch all those three matches and I'll see if they get included


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Although those are valid reasons Cody, I think they all ( main guys) not just dolph arent cutting it in the ring anymore, . Someone backstage must being telling them something idk, but the wrestling these days is just not up to par, and this includes guys from Cena to Dean to Ziggler. I"ve enjoyed Ziggler's run since August as I'm a big fan of his like most know, but I cant dismiss his recent stuff being meh just because I'm a fan. But again I feel that way about most of these guys expect Rusev 


I read this thread from time to time, and I read someone saying these days, they all wrestling the same, run of the mill, generic forumuatic matches with little differences, I'd have to agree


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I do hold the company for _some_ of the blame. I wouldn't deny the agents telling Dolph to "stick w/it" and he's positioned as the underdog thing right now - hence the reference to the booking. I just can't stand it. It's not him, you know? When I watch Dolph Ziggler, I don't see "underdog fighting from below". b/c he's not that compelling or natural in that role. Last year the proper booking & scenarios made it feel that way. But that's natural when everything clicks in pro wrestling. Things are popping and everyone is looking like a million bucks. I'll fondly remember Payback or the 3 vs 1 Handicap vs Shield as the booming examples. But now, I'm not wanting to see it. Complete opposite. I'm bored. Largely disinterested w/this output on how he's supposed to be used & not convinced. In any capacity. 

Entire company is the pits these days. So he's far from being the only culprit. Got to have those gimmick matches floating about. And they're all horrible. Idc about a violent spotty ladder match or an overbooked tables fiasco, it's exactly the same in my eyes. Bad. Yet, for someone I _(used to atm, but still do)_ like, its taken a larger fall from grace. Combine that w/not being able to comprehend the notion of positive opinion - it's beyond me, but aye, that's opinions for ya - of his recent work, it's two massive, conflicting wavelengths.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Bountiful Nikki Bella Claus said:


> Although those are valid reasons Cody, I think they all ( main guys) not just dolph arent cutting it in the ring anymore, . Someone backstage must being telling them something idk, but the wrestling these days is just not up to par, and this includes guys from Cena to Dean to Ziggler. I"ve enjoyed Ziggler's run since August as I'm a big fan of his like most know, but I cant dismiss his recent stuff being meh just because I'm a fan. But again I feel that way about most of these guys expect Rusev
> 
> 
> I read this thread from time to time, and I read someone saying these days, they all wrestling the same, run of the mill, generic forumuatic matches with little differences, I'd have to agree


That would be me who said that, and yea I'm sticking by it. Everyone seems to be wrestling so similar these days, just with slightly different characters. It's not a style I prefer, either. Maybe some people dig it (apparently Austin101 is gaga over this current trend by those monstrous ratings he handed out) but for me it just doesn't cut it. I did REALLY like the Dolph/Harper match, though, even if it did have me genuinely concerned for both guys well being. It would be one thing if those guys worked that match as a huge blowoff and then were given a few weeks to recover, but instead they just did all this psychotic shit, beat the fuck out of each other, and there was no real heat or build to it and both guys were back on the road the next day. That shit both bothers and worries me. It's like they thought "hey maybe if we go out there and try to commit suicide by ladder people will finally notice that we are worthy of spots high on the card". That's absurd, Luke Harper has talent oozing out of his pores he doesn't need to do that ridiculous suicide dive just to prove a point. 

Personally, I'd rather see a Harper/Ziggler cage match and the culmination of a blood feud over a ladder match, BY FAR, that is if I didn't already know it would get ruined by over booking or being forced to work within the current restraints. Put Zigs and Harper in NJPW and give them a cage and you might get something truly memorable.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

My only critic with his in-ring stuff now is he tends to play the FIP right out of the gate in matches and to just tighten up the selling, (He's a great bumper ppl, not seller but can be good at times (SEE Payback 13), but your right they probably tell him to play the UBER underdog and to get DEM POPS just as they are making his character into that which I don't necessarily enjoy either, making the guy sound like he has no confidence and melodramatic when that is not what Dolph Ziggler has been for so long, he's the charismatic "I honestly believe I'm better than everyone else" show off I (we) love. Yes I understand HEEL/Face dynamic, but Ric Flair still believed he was the man when he was a face



Edit : @Cjacks, they wouldnt even build to something that would even reach that anymore, havent Ziggler and Harper had singles matches every week up until TLC ? Loses that "feel"


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Rough Top 50 Version 1.0 (haven't seen REvolution, only bits and pieces of NXT which I plan to get up to speed on and havent seen much of ME. Missed SD so no Ziggler/Rollins)

1. Shield/Wyatts EC (MOTY) *****
2. Cesaro/Zayn NXT ****1/2
3. HHH/Bryan WM 30 ****1/2
4. Bray Wyatt/Bryan ****1/3
5. Shield/EvolutionER ****1/4
6. Cesaro/Cena ****1/4
7. Ambrose/Rollins No DQ Raw ****1/4
8. Survivor Series ME ****1/4
9. Orton/Batista/Bryan ****
10. NXT 4way ****
11. EC ****
12. Shield/Wyatts II ****
13. Cena/Lesnar Summerslam ****
14. MITB Ladder match****
15. Cena/Wyatt Wrestlemania ****
16. Kane/Bryan ER ****
17. Rollins/Ambrose LJ ****
18. Shield/Wyatts ME **** (i messed up switch 17&18)
19. Harper/Ziggler TLC ***3/4. 
20. Usos/Harper &Rowan 2/3 ***3/4
21. Bryan/Cesaro La Mystica finish ***3/4
22. Cesaro/Orton SD ***3/4
23. Cesaro/Cena II Raw ***3/4
24.Christian/Bryan ***1/2
25. Ambrose/Wyatt Survivor Series ***1/2
26. Miz/Ziggler Summerslam ***1/2
27. Sheamus/Cesaro PB ***1/2
28. IC No. 1 contender 4 way ***1/2
29. Shield/Wyatts IV ***1/2
30. Bryan/Del Rio Raw ***1/2
31. Ziggler/Cesaro 2/3 falls ***1/2(could've been MOTY candidate with a little tooling and more time to be honest)
32. Rollins&Ambrose/Real Americans ***1/2
33. Orton/Bryan Feb. ***1/2
34. Cena/Wyatt PB ***1/2
35. Cena/Harper Raw DQ finish ***1/2
36. 4 on 3 handicapped match SD ***1/2
37. Cesaro/Ambrose No DQ SD ***1/2
38. Swagger/Rusev Flag match ***1/2
39 Ambrose/Wyatt SD ***1/4 
40. Shield/Sheamus, Bryan and Mysterio ***1/4
41. IC No. 1 Contender four way ***1/4 
42. Cesaro/Swagger SD ***1/4
43. Shield 11 on 3 ***1/4
44. Mania kickoff four way tag ***1/4
45. Gold&Stardust vs Usos NOC ***1/4
46.. Sheamus/Barrett IC Tourney match ***1/4
47. WeeLC ***1/4
48. Lesnar/Cena NOC ***1/4
49. RVD/Rollins after MITB ***1/4
50. Shield/Sin Cara &Los Matadores ***1/4

Just missing the cut: Sheamus/Wyatt SD, RA/Usos Raw, Ziggler/Cesaro MITB Qualifier


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

On Smackdown, Ziggler did a really good job of carrying himself like a big deal. His promo exchange with Rollins was nice. But I guess there's no bothering with changing people's opinions. Some people here still think Sandow doesn't understand wrestling.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Never liked Ziggler. Even when he is/was good. Even when I got back into some WWE TV in 2010 because the young blood of McIntyres and Masters and Gallows were exciting me. Even when I was warming up to him I just had something probably visceral that stopped me from actually giving a shit about him. I never liked him and it's gotten so much worse now. Or maybe not now, but over the years. Calling himself a "heel" on TV was probably the final straw. Guy comes off as a nudge-nudge wink-wink smark panderer to begin with. Then he puts "Heel" on his tights and starts calling himself that. And what is his gimmick? "Here to show the world"?? He talks as if making a good match is more important to him than winning it. See, there's that smark pandering again. Never liked him. And I ain't in that alone no mo'.


Harper is great. I remember I asked for one thing in 2013 WWE and that was for the company not to screw him up and other guys they'd taken from the indies. I heard he was used a Wyatt worshiper and immediately became frustrated, but they pretty much nailed it. I think him being the minion of a nutbag actually made him seem more menacing than if he was a big solo guy who just won squash matches. Oh crap, I said I like him. Now they'll fire him. But hey, if I get to see Brodie Lee/Chris Masters on a random Irish wrestling show then NEAT.

Who doesn't like Sandow? He's unspectacular but I'm not sure I've ever heard someone say something really negative about him. Then again I don't pay all attention to everything.....so that's why I ask, I guess.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sandow is very mediocre, but he's harmless.



Yeah1993 said:


> But hey, if I get to see Brodie Lee/Chris Masters on a random Irish wrestling show then NEAT.


Can you make this happen?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Sandow is pretty meh at all aspects, the Mizdow thing was very funny at first but now its jumped shark


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

Bountiful Nikki Bella Claus said:


> Sandow is pretty meh at all aspects, the Mizdow thing was very funny at first but now its jumped shark


They're having him copy Miz way too much now. It was great at first because it came at moments you weren't expecting. Now they're constantly having the camera on him and he's copying literally everything Miz does. It's taking away from the greatness that is his gimmick.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It was only a matter of time before WWE saw "hey look, it's kind of over, lets emphasize it". Which is a death wish.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Agreed Sandow and miz Need to end this soon probably at the rumble in a tag match with the usos that leads to a mania match?


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

machomark said:


> Agreed Sandow and miz Need to end this soon probably at the rumble in a tag match with the usos that leads to a mania match?


There is no way that they don't do a Rumble spot where Miz gets eliminated and Sandow launches himself over the top rope.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Miz vs Sandow at WM b/c of this angle? This isn't the 90's.

Besides, once it dies, so does Sandow.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Sorry if I'm stuck in Million Dollar Man-Virgil mode.



Hey Santa It Wasn't My Fault! said:


> There is no way that they don't do a Rumble spot where Miz gets eliminated and Sandow launches himself over the top rope.


Yeah, true.

Well I DID think this was leading to a feud between the two....with Miz eventually getting jealous...What does the 90's have to do with anything though...they always do this.

Any team that gets together breaks up.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

But it won't lead to anything other than a match or two on TV. Not WM. Midcard has no life on the biggest show of the year.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Yay, Sandow talk. :mark:

Boo, still little-no appreciation for how amazing Sandow is. Above average in-ring worker, top-notch mic worker, amazing at playing a character/has completely nailed down WWE's style of acting, charismatic... only thing he's missing is THE LOOK! (and strong booking) Ah well... 

In recent months he's been solely Miz's stunt double, hasn't had much time on the mic, hasn't had much in-ring action, but he's still one of the most over acts on the show, if not the most over. It may just be because he's Miz's stunt double, but we won't know for sure until it ends and if Sandow is at least booked competently for a few months (for the first time in his career...). If he just goes back to jobbing after he's done with Miz, he and pretty much no one else can remain over. However if he is booked to at least look credible and his reactions drop down to nothing, then we'll know for sure it really was the Mizdow gimmick.

I've accepted Sandow's place and that WWE will never see him as a main eventer or top star (their loss <_< ), however I'm holding onto the glimmer of hope that he's at least allowed to be mid-card champion and if his segments can be of the quality of the Cody Rhodes and Sheamus feuds in 2013 he had, I'll be happy enough.

As far as it going only until Mania, despite what you guys are saying, the act is still very very hot with the crowds and is still growing. It may be wise to split them while Sandow's hot, which will definitely last at least through the end of the year, and not take the chance it fizzles out before Mania. 

However with how much faith I have in Sandow (and Miz's ability to be a great heel and get some good heat), I think they could stretch it out to Mania. At the Rumble have Miz and Sandow in together and as Sandow is looking to eliminate someone (perhaps by Miz's directive), Miz eliminates Sandow and the other guy. Hell, it doesn't have to happen towards the end really, just the middle part. Sandow looks to almost have a confrontation with Miz over it, but ultimately backs off, and then Miz gets eliminated. Miz blames Sandow for this and then in a tag title match at Fast Lane (or whatever they're calling the Feb PPV) have Miz lose the tag titles, and again berate Sandow after for "costing him the match." Miz continues to do this for a couple of weeks, maybe Sandow even gets a US Title match with Rusev (if he's still champion) and actually puts on a good showing that makes him look credible again, but Miz costs him the match in a way that'd look like it was an accident if you didn't know for a fact Miz did it on purpose. Then as Sandow, who has passed out to the accolade lies on the mat, Miz stands above him and yells at him, saying he failed them and all that crap.

Finally they get a rematch for the tag titles and again, Miz causes Sandow to lose the match by a roll up or something. Just making sure Sandow is still conscious after the match. Miz again yells in Sandow's face, but Sandow finally strikes back and starts brawling with Miz, getting the upper-hand and Miz runs off. From there you have three-four weeks until Mania, and while Raw will no doubt be filled with guys like Lesnar, Sting, Cena, HHH, etc. and bigger stars, they can use Smackdown to really progress the Sandow/Miz feud (and maybe they do matches on Raw or vice versa). As long as they don't make it a complete comedy angle (touches of comedy wouldn't be bad though), I have no doubt with both Sandow and Miz's mic skills, they can create a great program leading into Mania that would surprise everyone except for Sandow marks, Miz marks, and marks of both. 

Now whether the match is good or not is another story. Sandow's above average and Miz is very average (he has shown improvement though since returning with his Hollywood gimmick), so I wouldn't go into this expecting a classic. Hell, I'd more expect it to be the worst match on the card. I'm just hoping the chemistry the two have on a team can translate into them being opponents and into a match setting, give them 10 minutes, and if so I can see the match surprising everyone (even us Sandow marks, and the Miz marks I think). 




Okay, now all you guys can go back to talking about your rasslers, 1830's wrestling, NXT, and whatever else you fine folks chat about.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bob Backlund.

That's sure to put this back on the right track.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

^Agreed.

Sandow>Backlund.



Okay, I'll stop now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

8*D

Part of me wants to see the Ambrose vs Bray BOOT CAMP MATCH tonight, b/c nothing sells a meant to be upper card feud between two nutjobs, better than what will be a hokey gimmick match on a cheesy, throwaway show for the military.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Not sure what to watch tonight.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Go watch Butch Reed vs. Ric Flair.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Go watch Butch Reed vs. Ric Flair.


Is it on the youtubes?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

They have two other matches that are longer, but this one is the fun sprint worth checking out.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Network has their match from the Clash & it rules.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> They have two other matches that are longer, but this one is the fun sprint worth checking out.


Very fun :clap


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

If Flair had a good match with Butch Reed then he really is the GOAT. Unless Reed has all of these amazing matches that I've never seen. I've just seen his WCW/NWA stuff on the Network (so more Doom matches than anyone ever needs to see) and he's been one of my least favorite guys to watch on their.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Hey Santa It Wasn't My Fault! said:


> If Flair had a good match with Butch Reed then he really is the GOAT. Unless Reed has all of these amazing matches that I've never seen. I've just seen his WCW/NWA stuff on the Network (so more Doom matches than anyone ever needs to see) and he's been one of my least favorite guys to watch on their.


Flair can do anything :flair3


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I used to hate Reed, but the Mid South project opened my eyes as to what type of wrestler he is. If you put him out there in the ring with no rhyme or reason, he will sink because that's not the type of wrestler he is. But if you put him in a position to succeed by letting him be a fiery babyface or a heel that a babyface needs to destroy, then you got yourself a really good match. Reed works well with implementing storylines in his matches and interacting with the crowd. It shouldn't be a surprise that he never had a good match in the late 80s because he was just a directionless hoss with a bad back at that point. But Flair having great matches with Reed is not miracle work.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No way, indeed. Reed knows what he's doing inside the ring. I don't know how only seeing his work in DOOM would lead to being bad, as it is. DOOM was one of my preferred constants during the early days of WCW.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Hey Santa It Wasn't My Fault! said:


> If Flair had a good match with Butch Reed then he really is the GOAT.* Unless Reed has all of these amazing matches that I've never seen.* I've just seen his WCW/NWA stuff on the Network (so more Doom matches than anyone ever needs to see) and he's been one of my least favorite guys to watch on their.



Butch Reed was actually awesome (in Mid-South) just like Duggan but once they got to the big league's for whatever reason they tamed themselves down.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*NWA Great American Bash Tour 1987 (Behind The Scenes)*



Thought id upload this for people who are interested and havn't seen it.

Footage including The Road Warriors,Sting, Ron Garvin, Lex Luger and Dr. Death Steve Williams in the dressing room joking around. And discussing their match.

Good stuff here, as the wrestlers are completely out of character and being candid. Sting is shown putting his makeup on. The LOD sings Row Row Row your boat. Nikita Koloff is there too, and true to his character, doesn’t speak a word of English on camera. 
Hawk even shows the viewing audience how he hides his blade when he tapes his wrist.) + more.

GREAT STUFF!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

If there were "awesome wrestler" in the dictionary, TAKA Michinoku would be pictured next to it. But Butch Reed is great too.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Flair is the GOAT though. He could have taken any wrestler (no matter the experience level) and made the guy look legit.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Gotta agree with Hayley, no matter how much it pains me

Sandow is more over now than he ever was as a singles competitor. His original heel incarnation didn't. His stripped-down, all black phase didn't, but with Miz? He's got TV time doing his class clown bit, and does alright for himself. Once they break up, who knows where he'll land, and so I think riding this out is his best option. I don't really care for him as a "serious" wrestler, but have enjoyed the comedy run. 

Maybe it gets to the pre-show at WM? IDK, but there's too many talented people waiting to get called up for him to be in a serious role moving forward, imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> If there were "awesome wrestler" in the dictionary, TAKA Michinoku would be pictured next to it. But Butch Reed is great too.


And he's a boss in deathmatches. (or that one he was actually in)



JustJoel said:


> Gotta agree with Hayley, no matter how much it pains me
> 
> Sandow is more over now than he ever was as a singles competitor. His original heel incarnation didn't. His stripped-down, all black phase didn't, but with Miz? He's got TV time doing his class clown bit, and does alright for himself. Once they break up, who knows where he'll land, and so I think riding this out is his best option. I don't really care for him as a "serious" wrestler, but have enjoyed the comedy run.
> 
> Maybe it gets to the pre-show at WM? IDK, but there's too many talented people waiting to get called up for him to be in a serious role moving forward, imo.


It was bound to happen sometime. 8*D


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Is it time for all the MOTY lists to start hitting the thread yet? I'll get mine ready... :side:

Sandow eliminating himself in the Rumble would be pretty :lol. I'd enjoy that spot if it happens. I have to say though, my hype for the Rumble is about 4/10 and it's usually the one show I look forward to above everything else every year regardless of build. This year though? I'm finding it hard to care. I know it's early and everything but still, I'm usually always hype for the Rumble but I'm meh so far. Belee dat will change everything I'm sure.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Even though I shouldn't doubt it - cause, you know, it's NXT stuff - was PAC/Ste-*ahem* Neville/Owens from NXT this week anything close to great? I hear so, but wanted to 'be sure' (not that I doubt it too much but whatever).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*The Undertaker vs John Cena (Smackdown 06.24.2004)*

x2cwgyl

Reuploaded this in better quality.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

ATF said:


> Even though I shouldn't doubt it - cause, you know, it's NXT stuff - was PAC/Ste-*ahem* Neville/Owens from NXT this week anything close to great? I hear so, but wanted to 'be sure' (not that I doubt it too much but whatever).


It was a pretty good TV match, but nothing special. It got a ***1/4 rating from me


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

I thought the match they had on smackdown when cena was a heel rapper on August seventh 03 the vengeance re match was better *** 1/2 I was there live also so that helped


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Owens/Neville was nothing special at all, rather disappointing in all honesty. Owens' workover was pretty shitty and seemed extremely forced and awkward.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

machomark said:


> I thought the match they had on smackdown when cena was a heel rapper on August seventh 03 the vengeance re match was better *** 1/2 I was there live also so that helped


Well, the two SD '03 matches are also both on my DM Channel too, so. :smile2:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Put Raw on before leaving and holy damn the crowd are unbearable with "this is awesome." They literally chanted it at the Miz/Uso match when I'm pretty sure nothing of interest happened. It's like I'm watching wXw.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

"This is awesome" chants are one of the things I hate most about fans these days. Urgh. Just urgh. Out of all the times they've done it over the last few years (when was this a thing in WWE, anyway? Earliest I remember was WM 25 with HBK/Undertaker), only like 3 moments have been worthy of the chant.

Just watched NXT. Neville/Owens was a fun TV match. Didn't go into it expecting a classic with it being a TV match that is only really there to serve as a build to Zayn/Owens, so I probably enjoyed it more than some people who might have had higher expectations for it. Rest of the show was... completely skippable, yet I was able to sit through everything without actually skipping (but had I skipped parts, I wouldn't have missed anything lol). That instantly makes it better than Raw and SD these days .


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Any time a match is good we get that God damn chant... what's worse is what happens when a match is classic and doesent get that chant are we supposed to assume aaccording to commentary and whatever that a raw tag team match is better just because some idiots in the crows chanted that it was awesome. Why not switch it up like this match rules or something..or I know what about just be really into the match like the old days without having to chant?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Meh, it's not worse than "Match of the Year" chants. Still annoying af though.

The thing I hate about the "This is awesome" chant is that it encourages laziness. Match going boring? Just do a bunch of big moves and kick outs. Oh and some ridiculous dive over the rope. Always gets a "This is awesome" chants. I don't know if any of you have seen ACH/Alexander from PWG Eleven. It's mind boggling how that crowd reacted to that kick out fest.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Or Angle vs Hardy in TNA. That match got a "this is awesome" chant after a few finishers from both. The funny thing is that minutes before, the crowd were chanting "you fucked up" when Hardy botched a move. :lol


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Eh I just chalk it up to it being very easy to please some fans with spotsfest and etc, Most on here have Ziggler/Harper as a top 5 match this year and that sucked :hbk1


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Just for kicks i picked out a random raw and it endud up being March 22, 1999 (2 Raws before Mania) which like much that aired in the AE i never rewatched since the original. Good lord this was cheesy. Holly vs what was left of Dr Death in a frat house during the "JR Frat Party", HHH dressed as Goldust blasting Kane in the face with a flamethrower, Debra getting the Brood bloodbath, Undertaker' face before his match in the ministry, the lights cutting out at one point, Show flopping in the corner like a fish at SCSA's punches, Austin's comical oversell at show's foot counter sending Austin from the ring post over the barricade, a corny match between Road Dogg and Billy Gunn that ended really quickly, Cole's unbearable commentary with that voice and that goatee look. The great, legendary, cheesy segment that was Austin and the beer truck, what must be the debut of the Mean Street Posse assaulting Xpac and then doing the old "drive away before the face gets us routine". So much cheese


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

I don't really have a problem with "this is awesome" - like was said, some are easier to please, and if people are having a good time, then _isn't that the point?_ Lively crowd > dead crowd, so I'll take the good with the bad, and believe it more than evens out. Don't always agree, but opinions and assholes; whatnot.

Harper/Ziggler was almost great. It was sure physical enough, but Ziggler's hot/cold selling, and the lack of any real flow held it back. Just a collection of cool stuff to do - no real heat or story. If Harper's performance was ace, I would've had it still a little higher, but felt a little shortchanged. Something in his gestures I'm not fully on board with. He does a quasi-Air McNair one, and another that looks like Muta, I'm just not. Still like him tremendously, but thought the entire build was underwhelming, which left the match a little dry throughout. Like why do these guys need to settle this with a ladder match? "Well, that's the gimmick of the ppv!" ut

Still, physical as hell, and I can respect that as much as the next. An enjoyable ***1/2 for me.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Ziggler/Harper was awesome and nobody shall convince me otherwise. And yes, in general I'm easy to please with my pro graps, I wouldn't consider myself picky at all. The only things I flat out hate are when guys have super sloppy work that is easy to see through (aka they don't lay their shit in or throw good working stuff) or when I feel like guys aren't trying to win a match and are instead "just putting on a show" and doing overly contrived spots and shit that makes no sense whatsoever. Ziggler/Harper did neither of those things, it was exciting as hell to watch, and I genuinely got immersed watching it. So props to those guys, although I REALLY wish they had a better build so the match had more heat, so them killing themselves made more sense.

I don't like "this is awesome" chants, but like Joel said I'll take that over a dead crowd every day of the week. The part that annoys me most about "This is awesome" chants is when the baby face is getting beat down and they do it. The crowd should be booing the heel and letting them get heat, not cheering "This is awesome!" While the baby face is getting the beating of a life time. But that's WWE these days in a nutshell, they have so totally screwed up the psychology of being a real face and a real heel that crowds these days are stupid.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

^Harper/Ziggler was indeed awesome on second watch. On first watch I was around *** 1/2, but it went way up for me. It wasn't a spotfest, it was two guys willing to kill each other for the win, which is one of the paths of options that makes sense for me in a ladder match. What would have aided it is if they had some heated feud beforehand, but I can't blame them for bad booking as far as build up is concerned.

In the context of them being two, relatively young, hungry guys (Ziggler's been around for forever, but his character is that of someone who's perennially hungry with something to prove), it made sense for that to be their approach. That's how it came off to me anyway, and that's where I think that things in a shoot sense blur the lines with kayfabe beautifully.

It was exciting, hard hitting, a car crash in the best ways (not from a "concerned about real life injuries" perspective, but that's a topic for another time)...everything looked real and legitimate. Which is funny, because a criticism of Ziggler is that things often look too flashy and unrealistic. I was extremely impressed by his approach to and performance in this match. Gritty as hell. Lastly, the ending honestly shocked me. I though that they were going to have Harper obviously win for a future Harper/Rowan feud. Plus, I'm used to them pulling the rug out from Ziggler, and I didn't look at SvS as a crowning moment for him. I looked at Sting as more of the person that they were intending to make a star out of that show.

Needless to say, on re-watch, I think that this does lay claim to one of the top matches of the year. Many of the matches that get listed way up there, don't stay with me the way that this one has. 

**** 1/4ish.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Regarding Ziggler talking about putting on the best match and not talking about winning all of the time...really, what else is he supposed to say?! What are you supposed to say when you're constantly booked to job? It's the Bray Wyatt situation all over again. Part of the reason why people get on Bray is that they say that his words have no meaning. His words have no meaning because WWE never backs it up in their booking. He doesn't seem dominate; he doesn't seem like he's going to flip people over to the other side and own them; he's a chump, booking-wise. 

That's made even more apparent when he talks a big, sinister, game. 

It's the same thing with Ziggler. No one takes it seriously when a guy talks about winning, when everyone knows he's got no shot. Especially when it's the same thing over, and over, again. That does absolutely nothing, and I don't think that people should stick to the same, repetitive, unrealistic playbook, just 'cause "that's the way it's supposed to be." I just feel like it's a different era, and there needs to be a little bit more realism. I don't know, I just feel like he resonates with a lot of hardcore fans for exactly that reason. Hardcore fans have been watching the same shit for decades, so it's refreshing to see someone not treat us as children and morons. 

He does what makes the most sense for his character, and for what is most believable in a situation that everyone's been witnessing with their own eyes...and I don't think it ruins the objective of wrestling. It's evolved, and it's sports entertainment now :vince , which means that I think that it can be acknowledged that part of the objective is putting on a tremendous show. Just like it made sense to me for Jeff Hardy to do the crazy shit that he did in MITB matches, because you could buy him as a guy who cared more about breaking his neck for the thrill of it, and for the thrill of the kamikaze recklessness of taking out everyone with him. That's a win for him. That's _his_ character's high. Has that evolved from the original intent of wrestling? Sure, but it had to, IMO. There's something for everyone, and this isn't the era where everyone still looks at everything through children's eyes anymore. Especially in the age of streaming television, social media, etc. that we're in now. 

As long as it's still mostly treated as a competition that everyone's dying to win, ESPECIALLY IN BIG MOMENTS (I recall Ziggler making potentially winning the Andre the Giant Battle Royal, sound like the biggest deal ever), I think that there's also room for patent realism, especially when shit is blatantly obvious over a long period of time. I just think that that's a better path to go down, rather than sounding like an oblivious moron just for the sake of sticking to some ill-advised tradition, even when it's completely nonsensical and no one's buying it anymore. Why do you think that Punk's pipebomb promo was so transcendent?

Why do you think that people cannot stand Cena, when Hogan was booked in a similar manner? Because they've seen the same shit with Cena week after week for yeeears, in a way that they didn't with Hogan, due to Cena & the WWE's overexposure nowadays. It's the same reason why it seems foolish to constantly talk about winning when you're a perennial jobber in WWE's current climate. Even the most casual fans recognize when you're forced to job to Fandango. And yes, this was actually pointed out to me by a casual. 

It's not like Ziggler is coming off like he doesn't care about winning anyway, IMO.

I think that the Hardy point doesn't even apply to Ziggler, because I think that Ziggler generally doesn't perform a match in way that gives you the idea that he doesn't give a shit about winning. Actually, I think he's someone who's accused of going too full-force, rather than the opposite. I always feel like he's fighting to win. He's one of the few who consistently gives me that feeling, actually.

I do see the point about him being a little too insidery, though. I didn't know that he wore "heel" on his tights, lol. I could see how that could annoy. Just thinking about the rundowns that someone posted here of the way that Nash, Russo, and co., would act on camera in TNT, still makes me laugh just thinking about it.


ETA: Dolph's gimmick clearly works, since he's one of the most over people with the audience currently. So how could we really say that he's doing it "wrong", if he's connecting? Isn't that the point? He's getting people behind his matches moreso than almost anyone else currently, so by definition, how can his approach be wrong? He's doing exactly what you're supposed to do as a wrestler.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

sharkboy22 said:


> It's mind boggling how that crowd reacted to that kick out fest.


Answered your own confusion here: 


> PWG


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Finally got to *WWF No Way Out 2001*:

*Hardcore Title: Raven (champion) vs. The Big Show* **
*Intercontinental Title: Chris Jericho (champion) vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit vs. X-Pac* ****
*Stephanie McMahon vs. Trish Stratus* ***
*Three stage Of Hell: Steve Austin vs. HHH* ****1/2
*Jerry “the King” Lawler vs. Steven Richards* DUD
*Tag Team Title Table Match: The Dudley Boys (champions) vs. Edge and Christian vs. The Undertaker and Kane* **1/2
*WWF Title: Kurt Angle (champion) vs. The Rock* **

Opener was as fun as hell, man i miss that 24/7 stuff.

The Four Way match :lenny

Steph/Trish was realy fucking good lol, no i mean it, really fucking good. 

So yeah, the 3SOH match. First fall was slightly better for me this time, never
been a big fan of it, but after the first 6/7 minutes, where Austin botches a few things, it did pick up and start to flow better IMO. Im still a sucker for all the stuff in the final 2 falls, and that is why it maintains ahigh rating for me, slightly down on the latest watch, but fuck it, its still one of my darn favorites.

Main event was disappointing on this watch, not as good as some people seem to rate it IMHO, not overly bad or anything, just didn't click for me, but still 'ok'. Angle swearing, and the ref botch still lol worthy. I do wonder if Angle's profanity is edited on the Network.

Lawler quit after this didn't he? Oh well, at least we got Heyman coming in.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You rated the main event **1/2 too high .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Agreed w/Cal. Rock/Angle NWO is a fucking chore. Their NM 2000 match is WAAAAAYYYYY better (it's actually good to begin with).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I did think I rated it too highly tbh, esp after rating Trish/Steph the same lol, and i enjoyed that a helluva lot more.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Think I might get another 2007 PPV Ramble started today. The nosedive in overall quality from 2006 is astounding lol, and really preventing me from speeding through these shows as much as I'd like to .

Crazy to think that the final 07 PPV Ramble will be Ramble #100 (not including RR and WM shows that were done separately to these).


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Do GAB. I honestly thought that show was alright. Jeff/Umaga ruled, Orton/Dusty was ok as a simple story advancement device, the WHC Triple Threat was cool and Cena/Lashley ruled too. LOL at Carlito/Sandman tho :lmao


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

I have Jeff/Umaga on my four star list from GAB 07, 1310 matches long that list now. 


I'm watching Superbrawl 1997 today, on the fifth match, holy fuck what a great show this is so far.

Will dish out flakes later.

Rock-Angle is a terrific Match. Sure, No Mercy is better but not by much. I don't even care if Hebner screws up the end, that made it better to see Rock's reaction. Looks like I'm alone on here in liking it, which is fine by me. I hold *JD Dunn's * view extremely high when it comes to my own. I make a point of comparing my rating to his at all times his ratings are at 411 Mania. He holds the match in high regard and explains why and I really agreed. Of course I don't check out his opinion until I've written mine. He is usually quite harsh on a lot of matches and I really dig his to the point reviews. They inspired mine to get more TO THE FUCKING POINT.


As I post below, I think Raven and Rhyno have the greatest hardcore title match in WWE history at Backlash 2001.


**** for that.

It was just incredible, brutal, the spots were amazing and it was everything a one on one hardcore match should be.



Brock said:


> Finally got to *WWF No Way Out 2001*:
> 
> *Hardcore Title: Raven (champion) vs. The Big Show* **
> *Intercontinental Title: Chris Jericho (champion) vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit vs. X-Pac* ****
> ...




I think your ratings outside the opener and main event are accurate, according to my opinion anyway.

If you thought the opener was "FUN" then I suggest you check out any hardcore title match from around that time, this was nothing special...at all. It was pretty lazy and nothing really great happened.


I suggest watching Raven vs Rhyno from Backlash 2001. That's my highest hardcore title match at four stars. It's absolutely incredible.

Then I saw you give Rock/Angle the same rating as the lame opener, when Rock and Angle went out there and put on one hell of a match. Just strange, but was a damn good PPV.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm watching WWF in 2001 (Raw/SD/PPV), so i'm sure ill be seeing alot of very fun hardcore matches. 

I think you rate alot of matches too highly personally, but i guess its all about opinion and what we think of a match as individuals. :shrug


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

OOOO YEAH, 100th post.





Brock said:


> I'm watching WWF in 2001 (Raw/SD/PPV), so i'm sure ill be seeing alot of very fun hardcore matches.
> 
> I think you rate alot of matches too highly personally, but i guess its all about opinion and what we think of a match as individuals. :shrug



That could be.

For the record that may seem that way because the only time I generally hand out ratings to matches are the "GOOD ONES."

I don't waste time watching bad matches anymore unless there part of the PPV I'm watching.

So whenever I post about a match in here as of late and hand out *** 3/4 to ***** it's because I'm watching one of my top matches.

It's not that I think ALL big matches are that high.

My list would have 7-8,000 matches if I thought all the big matches that ever happened were great. But it doesen't.

Raven and Rhyno for the record is my highest rated Hardcore match. I think the triple threat from WM X7 *** 1/4 is my second highest. No other Harcore title match comes close to four stars but that one.

You should give it a watch. Especially if you thought that lame (IMO) opener from No Way Out was fun. You'd absolutely love the spots and the brutality in this one.

It's under 10 minutes in length from Backlash 2001.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x26egr_wwe-rhyno-vs-raven-backlash-01_sport


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ill give it a watch when i get to the Backlash PPV, as im only onto the Raw after No Way Out atm.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Taker/RVD Vengeance 01 is probably the GOAT Hardcore title match for me. Do love that Rhyno/Raven match though. GORE INTO A SHOPPING TROLLEY~!


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Hardcore title matches

1-Taker V RVD ***3/4
2- Jeff V RVD ***3/4
3- Kane V Big Show V Raven ***1/2


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Nice cal glad u like it. Completely forgot about undertaker rvd I guess that's my second favourite. While the Gore finish was great it was much more then the first ish so many spots so many hard smacks to the head I got a migraine just watching it.

Those are three great ones Ryan u should check out raven rhyno I am sure it'd be on ur list.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

***1/4 for Rhyno V Raven.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just a clip from the 02/26/01 episode of Raw. Just a most awkward ref bump lol, then he nearly gets killed by Rikishi's massive leg. (Video was too long for a GIF).


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I've just started watching Capital Carnage. Three matches in, and the Russo influence on this is so nauseating. The stupid stories, the short matches with rollup finishes are just too much. 

Best thing at 45 minutes into this show is a Vince/Shane/Patterson/Brisco promo dumping on England.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

One good thing about having that "BEST OF IYH" DVD is seeing those great gems in awesome quality.


Just watched Diesel-Shawn GFBE 4/96 **** 1/2 and Mankind-Shawn Mindgames 9/96 **** 3/4 such great range for both those matches.

Mind Games is so damn good.

That's a match that gets better with every watch surely.

I think Foley and Shawn went the extra mile, had it had a different finish I don't see a reason why it wouldn't be 5 stars.

I think my top 5 matches in 1996 looks something like this....


1) Bret-Austin Survivor Series 11/17/96 *******
2) Mankind-Shawn MindGames 9/22/96 ***** 3/4*
3) Ultimo Dragon-Dean Malenko Starrcade 12/29/96 ***** 3/4*
4) Rey Mysterio-Dean Malenko Halloween Havoc 10/27/96 ***** 1/2*
5) Rey Mysterio-Ultimo Dragon World War 3 11/18/96 ***** 1/2*



GFBE Diesel-Shawn, Rey-Juventud ECW BAEB 2/3 Falls, Ironman Bret-Shawn, Malenko-Rey GAB, Malenko-Benoit Hog Wild would round out the top 10 with others like Benoit-Sullivan GAB 96, and lots of other ECW gems as well.. Twas a good year for the big three promotions.



-----------



Anways, watched Superbrawl earlier.


Loved this shit.

A great show in early 1997 WCW doesen't surprise me though.


*WCW SuperBrawl VII*_ from the Cow Palace in San Francisco, California, _USA on *2/23/1997*




•WCW World Cruiserweight Title: Syxx vs. Dean Malenko (c) = **** 1/2*


Good match by Syxx here employing a smart strategic match against Malenko but he hits a beautiful power-slam mid match among other great counters and Eddie Guerrero who had a classic with Syxx the month before at Souled Out costs Syxx the match.



•Konnan, La Parka & Villano IV vs. Ciclope, Juventud Guerrera & Super Calo = ******



Spotty as fuck but that was the point and from 97-99 the WCW offered up a lot of these 4 man, 6 man, 8 man, 10 man luchadore tags. Ciclope hits a springboard moonsault off the top rope and misses Villano IV by about four feet and crashed to the floor. Hilarious. La Parrka, Juventud and Calo were great here as always.




•WCW World Television Title: Prince Iaukea (c) vs. Rey Misterio Jr. = **** 1/4*



Rey was just money from 95-99, his real prime. I also dug his 02-04 work in the E. He made Prince Iaukea look great.



Diamond Dallas Page vs. Buff Bagwell = **** 1/4*



DDP was getting over here and Bagwell was gaining heat. Good match.



•WCW United States Heavyweight Title: Eddie Guerrero (c) vs. Chris Jericho = **** 1/4* (This can't touch Fall Brawl's CLASSIC which is 4.5 aka ***** 1/2*)



•Triangle Tag Team: The Public Enemy (Johnny Grunge & Rocco Rock) vs. Harlem Heat (Booker T & Stevie Ray) vs. The Faces Of Fear (Meng & The Barbarian) = ***


I enjoyed it.



•Jeff Jarrett vs. Steve McMichael = ** 1/2*



Steve McMichael was so fucking awful, Jarrett is underrated actually..



•San Francisco Death: Chris Benoit (w/Woman) vs. Kevin Sullivan (w/Jacqueline) = *** 3/4


Not as good as GAB but damn entertaining.



•WCW World Tag Team Title: Lex Luger & The Giant vs. The Outsiders (Kevin Nash & Scott Hall) (c) = **** 3/4*


If this was on any other show it'd stand out huge.

Possibly the best Outsiders tag match ever.



•WCW World Heavyweight Title: Hollywood Hogan (c) vs. Roddy Piper = *DUD*



WCW and WWF were polar opposited on PPV around this time or especially in 1998 and 1999. One promotion had a shitty undercard and great main events, while the other was carried by the undercard and had a shitty main event.



Show = *9/10.*


----------



## RestHolder (Jan 28, 2014)

Pulled out one of the two wrestling DVDs that I own from when I was little and gave it a watch. So here's Judgment Day 2001:

*William Regal vs Rikishi* *1/2
-The match was fine, just too short. Two great spots though: an absurd savate kick by Rikishi split Regal's nose open a la Kevin Owens, then Regal turned purple after the stinkface, although I'm sure most of you have seen that in gif form at one time or another. Also really enjoyed Regal's pre-match promo about Rikishi giving Stephanie the stinkface.

*2 out of 3 Falls Match for the Gold Medals - Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle* ***3/4
-I don't get why they felt the need to go 2/3 falls here, especially since the first fall only went just over a minute. And as good as the second fall was, there really wasn't a reason to have Benoit tap out. Anyway, the match was pretty damn good. They used the ladder superbly, but it was more like Shawn vs Razor than, say, Jericho vs Benoit. Conservative on the spots, but fantastic nonetheless. I've seen some complain about the ending being the finish to this feud, but I didn't mind it because it set up an angle for later in the night.

*Hardcore Championship Match - Rhyno (c) vs Test vs Big Show* ***
-FUN. It's been pretty well documented on this thread from what I can tell that 2001 was the Golden Age of the Hardcore Title. Lots of backstage brawling in this one and there's not much I love more than a good hoss fight. Ridiculous weapon shots and nearfalls litter this match, and the ending spot looks devastating. Even Big Show couldn't weigh this match down. 

*Women's Championship Match - Chyna (c) vs Lita* DUD
-So bad. SOOOO BAD. It doesn't even warrant a review. Just go and watch the match if you really want your opinion of Lita's wrestling ability to be lowered. 

*Intercontinental Championship Chain Match - Triple H (c) w/ Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley vs Kane* ****
-Yet another Triple H gem from 2001. It's a shame that he got injured the next night, because almost everything he was touching turned to gold. He did everything right in this match. He worked over Kane's broken arm, he did a blade job to end all blade jobs, and he was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more over as a heel than Austin was. The pop for the finish was insane, probably bigger than there would have been had Taker won the main event. That's not to discredit Kane in this match either, because he pulled his weight marvelously. Can I mention Steph on the outside, too? She's STILL the most attractive woman employed by WWE. But yeah, good stuff.

*Tag Team Turmoil for Number One Contendership*

*APA vs The Radicalz w/ Terri* 1/2*
-Faarooq hits a gigantic spinebuster, but that's essentially all that happens. Match only lasts a little over a minute. Bleh.

*APA vs Dudley Boyz* *
-It's longer, but not much more happens than the first match. The Hollys interfere not too long into the match, and the Alabama Slam through the table counts for pretty much the entire rating that this match gets. Oh, and RIP Bubba Ray. Cause of death, Clothesline From Hell.

*APA vs X-Factor* *1/2
-X-Factor? X-Factor. This was actually pretty okay, especially when compared to the first two matches. Pretty clever finish where Bradshaw gets tripped by Albert on the outside while he's holding Justin Credible or X-Pac (can't remember which) for the Fallaway Slam, and Albert holds on to Bradshaw's foot so he can't kick out of the ensuing pin.

*X-Factor vs Hardy Boyz* **
-The upward trend continues, as the matches just get better and better. The match is, of course, short, but they manage to fit quite a bit of good action into the limited time they have. A few cool spots by Jeff coupled with the big double superkick on Matt come together for a reasonably good little match.

*X-Factor vs Chris Jericho and Chris Benoit* **
-Before I talk about the match itself, can I mention how anticlimactic I found the reveal of Jericho's partner to be? I did, however, enjoy Y2J saying that his partner is a "real party animal". Benoit and Jericho were always my favorite tag team as a kid, even when they weren't a tag team anymore. Jericho gets worked over, and they continue to play up the running theme of the match of Albert being the game changer on the outside. Jericho and Benoit eventually win by submission, but this lacked the impactful spots that most of the other matches tonight included.

*Chris Jericho and Chris Benoit vs Edge and Christian* ***
-Every time I remember that this match is the culmination of the tag team turmoil, I get wide-eyed with excitement. Then I remember the match. 3 stars isn't bad, obviously, in fact it's pretty good, but for what I consider them capable of, it just didn't live up to what I was hoping for. It was just too slow at the start for my taste. The last few minutes were pretty awesome though, and the finishing sequence is really what I was looking for out of the match. 

*WWF Championship No Holds Barred Match - Steve Austin (c) vs The Undertaker* ***1/2 
-Austin? Undertaker? Brawling? :grin2: But seriously, this is every Attitude Era main event wrapped up into one nice package. Add in that Vince is at commentary and I'll probably need a cigarette by the time this is over. Unfortunately, they don't do much outside of the brawling out of the ring, and the finish is pretty badly botched as Kane doesn't come out to make the save until the referee already has a 2 count, causing him to stall in a fairly obvious manner. With those things considered, it's still a solid match that is worth rewatching.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

About to watch HHH v. Shawn Michaels and Kane v. Benoit from Bad Blood 2004. I'm going to see just how bad that Hell in a Cell was and see if the Benoit match holds up.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The Benoit match should definitely hold up. Other than the match in which he lost the title to Orton at Summerslam, it's my favourite title defence of Benoit's reign, but that's also due to the fact I'm not the biggest of fans of the Backlash three way.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*The Undertaker vs Bret Hart (Royal Rumble 1996)*

x2d1ai8

* By request


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Benoit vs Kane **** 1/4 (Probably my favourite Kane singles match ever)

HIAC is too long but surprisingly the psychology is there.

Trips goes for Shawn's bad back, Shawn goes for Trips knee, but they take up a quarter of the PPV and think they deserve to be main event and that bothered me. I say surprisingly because I watched this after their 3 stages of hell at Armageddon 2002 which is one of the worst matches I have ever seen in my life.


I'm a huge fan of Bret-Taker RR 96, extremely slow and methodical but I liked it.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Kept forgetting to mention this after the TLC PPV, commentary for the TLC match was pathetic. I know this isn't news but the laughing/joking got so bad i felt like turning the volume down.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Looking back on the Trips/Shawn feud of '02-'04, my consensus is that they tried to make every match feel epic. That's where they went wrong. It was all about how can I make the next match bigger rather than how can I make it better. 

Still don't mind the HIAC though.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Probably breaking out the Macho Man Collection today, should be fun


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

It's pretty good all of his best stuff is either not released from Memphis or already on the first set.

This DVD does its job with a great documentary and some fun matches here and there.

The maple leaf gardens match with steamboat is just terrific though.

**** 1/2


The DVD isn't huge on high ratings but it's a solid set.


----------



## GREEK FREAK (May 17, 2012)

Ahhhhh man I can't wait to get this :moyes1

Comes out February 17th 










:rollins2 :reigns :ambrose :mark:


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

They're _so_ going to make the DVD 90% about Reigns.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Can't wait for them to fill the set with throwaway tags like random ones from NXT, early matches against the likes of Khali and the other nobodies, and their WM match against the New Age Outlaws and Kane 8*D.

Halfway into my next 2007 ramble. *might* be done tonight. Until then, No Way Out 2005 was posted on my BLOG~! this morning, and I only realised a couple of hours ago that Raw in 5 Gifs for this week was saved as a draft rather than being posted, so that's online now too .


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Got excited for the Shield DVD then Cal brought me back to reality 

I hope WWE doesn't fuck up this DVD cause it could be pretty cool. Is there any details on it? I would really like a doc with each member talking about what went on behind the scenes to make things work. If this is some kayfabe bs with a bunch of shitty matches, I'll pass.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just onto the 5th March 2001 Raw. Heyman made his debut on the announce table, ill miss Lawler, but Paul E isn't a bad substitute. One thing, it's what about a month to WM, and
how late do feuds actually even start, like the Taker/HHH, Hardy Boyz/Edge and Christian,
even Kane being in to Hardcore match. No hint of any of that so far. Still, really enjoying 2001 TBH.

Taker/Kane have been fueding with Rikishi and Haku for the past month or so. Big main event on this Raw though: Austin/Rock vs Angle/HHH.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*No Mercy 2007*

Couldn't decide which 07 show to watch next, so I muddled the DVD's up, put them under a cover and picked this one out at random. 3 HHH matches in one night. 2 against Orton. Yeeeeeeey...


Woo, kicking off a PAY-PER-VIEW show with... talking! At least GENERAL MANAGER REGAL is there too. Looking all BOSS and shit.

Orton is announced by Vince as the NEW WWE Champion. Did that actually count as a title reign for him? Just curious lol.

Yey Regal gets some mic time! Tells Orton he gets to decide who he will defend the title against first. Fans want Y2J. They'll have to wait a little longer for him, but not too long . Anyway, I guess this is an official reign for Orton then? Crazy.

Blah blah blah Orton is the best blah blah blah HHH interrupts blah blah blah we got a title match.


*Randy Orton Vs Triple H - WWE Championship Match*

Well, I guess if we couldn't get Cena/Orton, WWE had to make it up to use by giving us TWO HHH/Orton matches to replace it . This is match #1, which I remember nothing about. At least I remember thinking their Last Man Standing match later in the night is great. As long as this doesn't wanna make me smash my head against a wall I'll call it a win.

Early going of this is really good, actually. They work a nice pace that isn't too fast that it would be a random move-fest, but sure as hell isn't a slow, dull, Orton pace. Awesome bump from the high knee by Orton too lol.

Even when Orton tries to bore, I mean, slow things down with a headlock, it doesn't last long and even then, this is still during a time when Orton knew how to WORK a headlock spot, so it's all good .

SPINEBUSTER BY HHH, AND HE DIDN'T TEAR HIS QUAD~! That's success for ya!










HOLY SHIT HHH WINS THE WWE CHAMPIONSHIP WITH A SCHOOL BOY PIN~!

Well, I'm pleased . Unlike 90% of their matches, this was GOOD! A great opener for the PPV, and a match I'd happily sit through again. A HHH/ORTON MATCH I'D HAPPILY SIT THROUGH AGAIN. Doesn't happen often!

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


*Brian Kendrick, Paul London & Jeff Hardy Vs Lance Cade, Trevor Murdoch & Mr Kennedy*

So Mr Kennedy injures the golden goose a week prior to this and is rewarded with... a PPV match! LOL.

This is a "bonus" match, and boy does it feel completely meaningless too lol. It's just a standard tag team for no real reason whatsoever. It isn't bad or anything, in fact I rather enjoyed it (mainly thanks to Cade & Murdoch/Londrick stuff). It's just... this should have been a Raw match. In fact it basically was, only with Shelton instead of Kennedy, just the week before.

:lmao Hardy does that running dive off the apron and... Cade apparently doesn't know it's coming so he isn't in position. Jeff just crashed to the mat . Not in a horrible way where he hurt himself, just a funny way .

MRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR KENNEDDDYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY. KEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY picks the win up for his team with that... top rope move he used to do. Uhhhh... dammit I can't remember the name of it :lmao. Finlay used to do it too, only without the need for the ropes because he's BOSS AS FUCK.

So yeah, good, enjoyable tag, but had no purpose.

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


D'awww, HHH and Batista have a moment backstage with both of them as champions. Then Vince shows up and informs HHH that the original match between him and Umaga is still happening tonight, only know with the title on the line!


*Big Daddy V Vs CM Punk - ECW Championship Match*

Is this that super short match that ends in DQ? Probably is.

Yup. It is. Striker runs into the ring and attacks Punk in less than 2 minutes.

And that's terrible because they had an awesome sub-2 minute match up until that point . This was probably cut short due to the changes made to the show with Cena being injured. WE GOT THAT MEANINGLESS 6 MAN TAG INSTEAD OF A LENGTHY ECW CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH? FUCK YOU.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Tazz like flat greasy wet pie.

MELINA~! FAP~!

MARIA~! FAP~!

They are here to keep score as Matt and MVP have another one of their competitions.

We are getting a Pizza eating contest. On PPV. When the ECW Championship match just before this got under 2 minutes.


*Triple H Vs Umaga - WWE Championship Match*

The referee is called Marty ELIAS. ELIAS. :mark:.

I might be a little obsessed with Person of Interest .

OH SWEET JEBUS UMAGA JUST MURDERED HHH. Superkick right to the fucking FACE :mark:.

Are any of those Undertaker/Umaga matches from house shows available online? Not some big dream match or anything in my opinion but definitely something I'd like to see. Shame they never had a program on TV or anything.

How do people rate Umaga btw? I liked him most of the time, but never thought he would be the next big thing or anything. Don't think he was made for the main event scene, not in the long run, anyway.

Oh yeah, the match. HHH does some stuff, Umaga cuts him off and works him over a little, nothing exciting there. Then HHH wins. Meh. 3 HHH matches in one night, 2 against Orton, and the Umaga match is probably gonna be the worst of the bunch . THAT'S INSANE~!

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


Backstage, Khali is meditating while his handler dude speaks for him. I was surprised that Khali was able to sit crossed legged and then stand up with ease .


*Finlay Vs Rey Mysterio*

Oh fuck YES :mark:. I have no memory of their PPV matches, just their TV matches (one in 06 and one in 07). And those were spectacular.

This is off to a tremendous start, just what I wanted to see :mark:. Finlay mauling Rey with his great offence, and Rey using his speed, quickness and unique offense to gain momentum for himself. I could watch these two go back and forth all day.

:mark: Mysterio tries to go for it all early on, with a sunset flip powerbomb attempt on the floor from the apron, but Finlay uses the apron cover like nobody else can to counter the former WHC and it's all downhill from here for poor Rey!

This is just fantastic stuff. Rey's little comebacks are great, Finlay is great at cutting him off, and the turnbuckle spot to distract the ref was awesome.

The finish see's Finlay get knocked off the apron and SPLAT to the floor, and he pretends to be knocked out. He gets put on a stretcher and... jumps up and attacks Rey :lmao. What a cunty heel he is :mark:.

Not on the level of their 2 epic TV matches, but for a match with the ending it had, which was essentially to build to another match, it was damn good!

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


Vince and HHH backstage segment again. We get the Last Man Standing match announcement :mark:.


*Beth Phoenix Vs Candice Michelle - WWE Women's Championship Match*

Hmmmm... no thanks!

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Batista Vs The Great Khali - World Heavyweight Championship Punjabi Prison Match*

People say this match is good. Yet they hate on the Undertaker/Big Show one. So not sure if I should believe them :side:.

This match is so horrible on paper, my DVD is spinning like hell to keep it playing otherwise it'll start skipping lol.

Aaaand it's dead. BRB, gonna give the disc a clean. Would be a shame if I couldn't watch this match :side:.

Dammit, it works again. FINE, I'LL WATCH THE DAMN MATCH.

So uhhh... some time has passed. The guys in the ring did some stuff. And now all the doors have been opened and closed, so they have to climb out of the first structure now rather than escaping through a door. Whatever.

Batista wins.

People think this is good? But hate on Undertaker/Big Show? GTFO.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Triple H Vs Randy Orton - WWE Championship Last Man Standing Match*

PUNCH PUNCH PUNCH PUNCH PUNCH PUNCH SHOT TO THE RIBS~! Orton is in control!

HHH takes a sweet back bump in the steel rampway. Orton is brutal in his assault on HHH, as he knows the Game is hurting and dammit he wants his title back!

MONITOR RIGHT TO HHH'S HAND~! BARELY~! I think it was supposed to be a head shit, with HHH protecting himself which is of course smart... but Orton almost missed HHH's hands :lmao.

ORTON THROUGH A TABLE~! If Orton connected properly with that monitor shot he wouldn't be in this predicament :side:.

Well a Spinebuster on the floor wasn't enough to keep Orton down so the next logical step is... STEEL STEPS~!

Why is it so hard for the fans to keep in sync with the referee's count? They are always like 1 ahead of him. IT'S NOT FUCKING HARD.

HHH seems to be running on empty, and it catches up to him quickly with Orton gaining real control of the match and HHH is pretty much DEAD. DDT on a steel chair and then an RKO on the chair looks to solidify the win for the Viper, but hold fuck HHH is up at 9!!!

Similar to the WM HIAC with Undertaker, HHH is dead and knows it, but he wants to go out FIGHTING like a true warrior, and gives Orton the old DX Crotch Chop in defiance before collapsing to the floor again.

Honestly I think that would have been a good place to end the match but nope, Orton goes for a Punt, HHH blocks it and has some energy again because I DON'T KNOW. 

Lol, had to groan in disgust as HHH so obviously sets up to take a bump into the ring post by basically moving Orton to the corner and attempting a Pedigree .

CHAIR SHOT TO ORTON'S HEAD WHILE IT'S ON THE STEEL STEPS~! Isn't that what finished off Khali in his LMS match with Undertaker?

RKO ONTO THE ANNOUNCE TABLE~! Kayfabe, that's what took out Cena the previous week, so I like that it was used as the finish.

Overall, a great match and the best LMS match of 2007, however I don't think it's as good as I remembered. Only gone down a little, mind you, but still.

Impressive though that HHH and Orton could have 2 of their best matches together in the same night. Shame they also have about 20 god awful matches together .

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 10.5*​


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Cena-Rollins has been good but they need to stop having them wrestle every week, it's getting to the point where you can call every spot 5 seconds before it happens because we've seen it 10 times already.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Cena/Rollins shouldn't even have happened this week. TLC, last Raw and tonight, wtf.

Of course Ambrose vs Wyatt is also scheduled tonight. Can't they give everyone different opponents or something?


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

The 3 main events from TLC all happening tonight on a random episode of Raw :lmao


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Rollins Cena was good but it was so routine and just consisted basically of big move kick out big move kick out...what happened to telling a story...I guess this is a John Cena tv match.

16 minutes of good action still, ***

Big Show is so played out that I found Roman reigns refreshing. It'd too bad the crowd is slowly already turning on him and he lacks confidence in a big way. 1/2*


Harper and Ziggler have had many matches and there was one on smackdown that was particularly great before survivor series when Ziggler won by contout. Not the one where he won by dq that was just a kickout fest.

Also Wyatt and Ambrose always has potential


The booking of this show has been pretty well done thus far.

I am happy they gave Ziggler Mic time afterror his defense even if what he said was cheeseball.

I really liked the IC Title Match. It looked like it was going to be the same match Ziegler has been having every week but it started out with a unique start. 

Harper took control before the bell rang and it looked like we were going to get a new champ before it started but Dolph fought back. Sure that's been the same story for all his matches but I really liked this one.

Its not quite as great as the sd match I rated four stars that I discussed above but it was a great thirteen minute story with a bit of character development for both guys. That's what I love most if the match itself isn't going to tell a different story by itself but they did make this one unique with a bunch of original spots.

Harper looked tough as fuck after taking the kick and still managing to drop Ziegler with the clothesline. I marked for the michinoku driver.

Awesome finish as well as it took Dolph a number of kicks to drop Harper. I thino all these matches they've had together have made both men better as a result. It's rare when a series can do such a thing so credit where it's due. Harper looks crazy as ever and Ziggler looks like a beast for having beat him..again.

Ziggler just won't stop having great matches this calendar year and I'm sure he's not done.


*** 1/2


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

I hope WWE ends up permanently billing Ziggler from Cleveland, Ohio. Don't get the point of only doing so when in Cleveland. Would help build up a semi strong hometown fanbase. Which almost no one in WWE right now actually has. Worked at TLC, so it should be done.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Haven't watched RAW in the past couple weeks, but the talk of hometown heroes intrigued me. Who were the biggest ones? The top three definitely have to be Lawler in Memphis, Flair in the Carolinas, and Punk in Chicago.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Haven't watched RAW in the past couple weeks, but the talk of hometown heroes intrigued me. Who were the biggest ones? The top three definitely have to be Lawler in Memphis, Flair in the Carolinas, and Punk in Chicago.



The first 2 I agree, the other, I think Bret Hart in Canada slightly edges out Punk in Chicago. Also, JYD in Louisiana tops Punk in Chicago, too. JYD was a god to those people in the 1980s.

Steve Austin in anywhere in Texas
Kurt Angle in Pittsburg
Chris Benoit in Edmonton

I would say Cena in Boston, but I've heard him actually get boo'd as a baby face in Boston more than once so that one ain't gonna fly. Ain't no way Lawler, Flair, Punk, Hart, JYD, Austin, Angle, or Benoit would get boo'd as a baby face in their home town.

Orton is pretty popular on St. Louis as well.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

It's weird how they turned Austin heel in Texas. If anything, I won't be surprised if some of the live crowd thought Vince was turning face. Although it kinda fits into the desperation of Austin in that match. He was willing to do anything to win the title and that included turning heel in front of his home crowd. He just simply didn't care about anyone except for winning the title that night.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Gone done watching the 8th March 2001 Smackdown, the build to Triple H/Taker has now started. I was going to ask, was this the original plan, or was something else mentioned regarding Triple H for WM17?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't recall anything else being potentially planned for WM 17 with Undertaker or HHH. Fuck knows though. That was a loooooong time ago now. Only way to find out I guess would be to treck through a bunch of old Wrestling Observer Newsletters from around the time .

Well with No Mercy 2007 out of the way, I'm moving out to the next show, that I once again picked out at random. New Years Revolution. Not sure what to expect from this event, I only remember 2 matches from the show, and I was never a big fan of them .


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Didn't HHH turn down the Mania 17 main event? I'm sure I read it was meant to be a 3 way but he didn't want to be in it.

Sure I also read he was meant to face a celebrity at one point as well.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, only reason i asked really is Taker was with Kane feuding with Haku/Rikishi, then all of a sudden he interrupted a HHH promo, and kicked off that feud. Just came across as a tad rushed, but who knows TBH.

Sill, glad we got it as i love (on previous watches anyway), their WM match.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

All these 2007 shows are interesting. Think that's the one year of PPV's I missed most of. I saw only half those shows. The one year I'd say I have followed Wrestling the least since I've been a fan. 


riple H and Undertaker was a logical match. Sure they weren't feuding before but I remember when Triple H attacked Undertaker on Smackdown I believe, I can think of the segment where he's choking him out with a chair and says how he cripples people, it just made sense to throw two big guys like that in a match for Mania. It was a pretty good match for the time it took place, I've always been a pretty big fan of that brawl. 


As far as Punk in Chicago or Austin in Texas, Bret Hart in Canada, especially Calgary surely trumps both.

Austin is just loved universally and outside of WM X7 I can't think of Texas really going out of their way for him. He had his biggest ovations outside of Texas.

Calgary is just a historic wrestling town, not only the hometown of the Hart's but considering that's where the Dungeon was and Stampede Wrestling etc, it's just got a great history here in Western Canada.

The whole hometown argument isn't one I'd debate over though. I don't know how one would really be able to tell who was loved more in a certain area. There are some great wrestling city's and Wrestlers from those places and that's it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

machomark said:


> Triple H and Undertaker was a logical match. Sure they weren't feuding before but I remember when Triple H attacked Undertaker on Smackdown I believe, I can think of the segment where he's choking him out with a chair and says how he cripples people,


Yeah, that happened on the Raw following their initial Smackdown confrontation, where Taker interrupted Trips, and then attacked him after HHH tried to hit Taker.

HHH then gained some revenge the Raw after that, attacking Taker with a chair whilst he was on his bike. This Raw also had Kane inserted into the Hardcore title picture, when Show attacked him. Watching this episode now lol.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> The first 2 I agree, the other, I think Bret Hart in Canada slightly edges out Punk in Chicago. Also, JYD in Louisiana tops Punk in Chicago, too. JYD was a god to those people in the 1980s.
> 
> Steve Austin in anywhere in Texas
> Kurt Angle in Pittsburg
> ...


If we can say Bret Hart in Canada, than obviously Khali in India comes to mind. Sure, we don't have any "pop" evidence of that, but he is regarded as perhaps literally a God there to the point of random people shuttling Khali around when he is there. Zack Ryder and Jericho somewhat touch on this on Ryder's episode of TIJ. Hell, it has to be the only reason Khali technically lasted as long as he did. In a land of I think 1.2 billion, that sheer volume has to put Khali up there if we count countries. 

I went to wiki it to verify, and I was kinda shocked to learn that Kerry Von Erich wasn't born in Texas. Obviously, he was rockstar hot in that area, and that just really surprised me. He was always treated like a son down there.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

There's no if we can say of course we would say it and as far as home places go he may be on top of flair or Lawler.

Speaking as a Canadian Bret Hart is royalty here. Hes looked at as a hero and was voted in the top 50 people in our nations history.

Hes one of the top names anyone will talk about in recognition with this country like Terry Fox Wayne Gretzky Shania twain etc...

A large part of brets heritage isn't the fact he's just a Canadian or that he was so good more-so about how he handled being from Canada and made others like myself proud of my heritage due to the hitmans actions.


I am enjoying ECW unreleased volume two it's a really good watch even if certain segments aren't really set matches

SHANE DOUGLAS 2 COLD SCORPIO TV TITLE A MATTER OF RESPECT 5/11/96 **** Great shit.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Austin101 was on the mark with his review of Harper/Ziggler. Only thing on RAW I'll watch, and it was a fun match that was different from their other bouts.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Austin101 was on the mark with his review of Harper/Ziggler. Only thing on RAW I'll watch, and it was a fun match that was different from their other bouts.



I've been on the TODAY'S WWE SUCKS Bandwagon long enough that I realize I might as well just look at what I do enjoy today.

I have heard people claiming this year was the very worst. I certianly agree that there are parts of this year that made it seem like it was the worst, but I'm not sure it was worse then 1995 or 1993.

On PPV we got a lot of great stuff. As well as about 40 matches that were really terrific.

I think this year is pretty underrated in the sense of how the Wyatt Family and Shield all sort of "ARRIVED." I know the Shield arguably arrived at Elimination Chamber 2013 but they were more cemented this year.

I'm going to wait until they tie up loose ends before I pass judgment on a lot of the stuff this year. (Authority Storyline, Sting, how they handle the Rumble, Lesnar, Ambrose, Rollins, etc, etc)


Reason I quoted you is because two of the things I've liked most about the second half of 2014 where I have watched each show are Luke Harper and Dolph Ziggler.

The programs these guys specifically Ziggler have been in the last few months in the IC title division have more then given back credibility to that beautiful white piece of gold.

The match with Cesaro on SD, Orton on Raw in October, then his series with Harper here. Harper despite losing looks like an awesome heel, lunatic, tough as nails SOB.

They are really booking the matches in this division in a super way.

That's a positive at least.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm trying to sell a friend on the greatness of Dolph Ziggler. His ten best matches. Go.........


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I'm trying to sell a friend on the greatness of Dolph Ziggler. His ten best matches. Go.........


vs. Del Rio - Payback 2013
vs. Daniel Bryan - Bragging Rights 2010
vs. Rey Mysterio - Night of Champions 2009
vs. Rey Mysterio - Summerslam 2009
vs. John Morrison - Hell in a Cell 2009
vs. Edge - Royal Rumble 2011
vs. CM Punk - Raw the night after Survivor Series 2011
vs. John Morrison- Survivor Series 2011
vs. CM Punk - Royal Rumble 2012
vs. Sheamus - No Way Out 2012

That's what I could think of at the top of my head


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Taengoo's Little Helper said:


> vs. Del Rio - Payback 2013
> vs. Daniel Bryan - Bragging Rights 2010
> vs. Rey Mysterio - Night of Champions 2009
> vs. Rey Mysterio - Summerslam 2009
> ...


You sir fucking rock the casbah!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

My top 10 Ziggler matches:

1) vs. Del Rio - PB 2013
2) vs. Punk Raw November 2011
3) vs. Bryan BR 2010
4) vs. Edge RR 2011
5) vs. Cesaro Main Event 7/10/2013
6) vs. Barrett Raw 6/23/2014
7) vs. Harper TLC 2014
8) vs. Miz Raw 9/22/2014
9) vs. Del Rio MITB 2013
10) vs. Sheamus NWO 2012


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Bruh, just show your friend the main event from Survivor Series this year. If that doesn't make him root his little heart out for the guy, I'm not sure if anything will.

BUT if it doesn't,

Couple other Ziggler matches that I thought were damn good through the years:

vs. Sheamus (Main Event 1/9/2013)
vs. Del Rio (Main Event 2/13/2013)
vs. Del Rio vs. Sheamus (Main Event March 2014 IC Title #1 contender's match)

Yeah, Ziggler has some sweet chemistry with those dudes. That 3-way is totally fun.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Watched some HBK/Taker matches in the last few days, and I don't think that this is debatable, 100% sure that no other wrestlers had such an amazing chemistry in the ring

HBK/Taker- Ground Zero: ***3/4
HBk/Taker- BB 97- *****
HBK/Taker- RR 98: ***1/2
HBK/Taker- WM25: *****
HBK/Taker: Wm 26: ****3/4


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

Brock said:


> Gone done watching the 8th March 2001 Smackdown, the build to Triple H/Taker has now started. I was going to ask, was this the original plan, or was something else mentioned regarding Triple H for WM17?


I was reading about original WrestleMania plans a while ago, and iirc, they were thinking of doing Triple H vs Ray Lewis at WM17.

glad we got the Taker match instead.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

As far as match chemistry goes its always going to be a subjective thing but I'll easily take the series of matches between Brock and angle, benoit and angle, Benoit and regal, guerrero and malenko and especially Bret and austin as well as flair and steamboat over Shawn and taker. You don't think it's debatable but I assure you it is.


Bret Austin Sun City 9/14/96 ****
Bret Austin Survivor Series 11/17/96 *****
Bret Austin Wrestlemania 3/23/97 *****
Bret Austin IYH ROTT 4/17/97 ****
Raw FALLS COUNT ANYWHERE 97 *** 1/2

They also were both major parts in the final four main event **** 1/2 and of course leaders in the tag match at Canadian stampede **** 3/4


Flair Steamboat

CHI TOWN 2/20/89 *****
COTC **** 1/2 
landsgrove event March 89 **** {Meltzer gave this five stars)
WRESTLEWAR 5/7/89 *****
SATURDAY NIGHT 5/14/94 **** 1/4
SPRING STAMPEDE 94 **** 1/4



Brock Angle

Wrestlemania **** 3/4
SUMMERSLAM **** 1/2
SD ironman **** 3/4




Benoit Angle 

Wrestlemania X7 ****
backlash 01 ultimate submission **** 1/2
jday 2/3 falls **** 1/4
cage match raw June 01 **** 1/2
Unforgiven 2002 **** 3/4
royal rumble 03 *****
Sd Feb 03 ****

And ya know not to even mention all the Times they we're apart of the same matches in the sd six tags triple threats fatal fourways



Benoit Regal

wcw nitro 12/02/96 ****
Brian pillman tribute show 2000 **** 
wwe velocity May 05 **** 1/2
wwe velocity October 05 **** 1/4
wwe velocity 06 **** 1/2
WWE NO MERCY 06 **** 1/4




Shawn Taker 

Ground zero ** 1/2
bad blood **** 3/4
royal rumble *** 1/2
WM 25 **** 1/2
WM 26 **** 1/4


Interesting top ten lists for ziggler more so because There weren't many mentions from 2014, the guy has just killed it the last few months.

But like russo just wrote who is Dolph Ziggler and why should I care? No character development and when they do give him any time to say anything on the Mic its just about the corniest thing you'll ever hear outside of cena.

I am really big on Dolph so this disappoints me.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

With 2014 coming to a close, I'd like to use this opportunity to take a look back at the year in WWE, and name, in my opinion, the top 10 PPV matches this year. This does not include special events, so don't expect to see Neiville/Zayn, and I rate these matches in terms of overall critical reaction from fans and my personal reaction to them as well, and I'll give my personal review of the matches and why I feel they are so great.

So lets get started. 

*10: Evolution vs The Shield Extreme Rules* ***3/4



Spoiler: Evolution vs The Shield













Kicking off this list is the six man battle between the recently reformed Evolution and the Shield. Both groups had something to prove in this match up, and those who were expecting an all out war weren't disappointed. The pace of this match started off good and was kept that way through out, with Evolution playing their part very well in the match. When the Shield gained the advantage, all three men got their chance at glory, and it was executed very nicely. As soon in the image posted, one of the highlights of this match included an insane diving spot from Seth Rollins onto Ambrose, Orton and Triple H, providing a fitting moment for a PPV titled "Extreme Rules". It was a crazy battle, and both sides looked great. The Shield would come out on top in this one, and you'll hear no complaints from me regarding that decision.



*9. Cesaro vs Sheamus (c) for the United States Championship Night of Champions* ****



Spoiler: Cesaro vs Sheamus













These two have incredible chemistry together, and that much goes without saying. With both possessing main event level-type talent, it's a shame these two aren't fighting these battles in the main event slot. The Celtic Warrior and King of Swing found themselves battling for the United States title at Payback earlier in the year, but it's their encounter at Night of Champions that earn them their spot on this list. The match possessed an incredible amount of very well timed action and spots that helped tell the story of two juggernauts attempting to outlast the other. Both looked incredible, and the near fall sequences at the end of the match where very well done. Top it off with a good amount of match time being given, and you've got yourself a recipe for an incredibly fun match. It served its purpose, and helped save Night of Champions from being a total bore. Sheamus would come out on top in this battle, and if you are a fan of the in ring work of Cesaro and Sheamus, this is a match for you to watch even if I just ruined the ending for you.



*8. Dolph Ziggler vs Luke Harper (c) Ladder Match for the Intercontinental Championship Tables, Ladders, Chairs and Stairs* ****



Spoiler: Dolph Ziggler vs Luke Harper













Up next on this list is what many described has an outright brutal contest between two outstanding in ring performers in Dolph Ziggler and Luke Harper. When this match was announced, it was highly anticipated by many, and it did not disappoint. From an experience of attending TLC and being able to witness this match in person, I can say that many who where in attendance were wow'd by the match, and it's not hard to see why. It was an absolutely crazy and physical match, with some creative uses of the ladder by Luke Harper to brutalize Ziggler through out the contest, as well as some very cool counters by Ziggler himself to inflict damage on Harper. While the ending to the match may have left a lot to be desired, this was none the less a great way to perform a ladder match. Rather than focus on big high impact spots, both guys instead made it a goal to have each other get the shit beat out of them, even resulting in both drawing blood at one point. Ziggler would come out on top, giving his hometown of Cleveland (lol) something to be happy about, until the rest of the event happened and they apparently stopped caring.



*7. Luke Harper and Eric Rowan vs The Usos (c) 2 out of 3 falls match for the WWE Tag Team Championships Money in the Bank* ****1/4



Spoiler: Luke Harper and Eric Rowan vs The Usos













When it came to tag team matches, both of these teams were having a great year. They seemed to have a great match with just about anyone they went up against. After their first encounter, and with the edition of the best 2 out of 3 falls stipulation, this match was highly anticipated and greatly lived up to expectations. The Wyatt Family looked incredible in this match, as both Harper and Rowan had some great moments. One includes a double suplex spot off the top rope by Rowan onto both Jimmy and Jey. The Usos of course did their part as well, providing their usual in ring action to blend in nicely with the styles of Harper and Rowan. What really made this match so great however was the crowd involvement and their use of the stipulation. The first two falls of the match where taken care of early, and we had a nice amount of time before the third fall would take place. They took advantage of this and used numerous near fall instances to surprise us and keep the pace of the match going. Meanwhile, the crowd was really into this match, and brought out the feel of the match. It felt like a main event-type of match, with Rowan even managing to kick out of the Usos finisher at one point. This is how tag team matches should be done, and if you enjoy tag team matches, I strongly recommend you watch this.



*6. Daniel Bryan vs Batista vs Randy Orton (c) Triple Threat Match for the WWE World Heavyweight Championship Wrestlemania XXX* ****1/4



Spoiler: Daniel Bryan vs Batista vs Randy Orton













The story behind this match is pretty incredible. Before this, we were supposed to have Batista vs Randy Orton happen, in what could have possibly went down as one of, if not, the worst Wrestlemania main event match of all time had it happened. Instead, Daniel Bryan was inserted into the match due to an unbelievable amount of fan support demanding his placement into this match. Coming off of a match with Triple H earlier that night, Bryan was a huge underdog coming into the match, along with a shoulder injury as well. They did an outstanding job with this, as most of Bryan's offense starting out came at moments where Orton and Batista where caught off guard, so all three still looked strong through out this match. We saw frequent exchanges between Orton and Batista, playing to the tension between them, but eventually, they decided to get rid of Bryan all together and pulled off a very cool double finisher combo on the announcers table. We saw great in ring action, great pacing, a few heart pounding near falls at the end that had us at the edge of our seats, and the storytelling was fantastic. In the end, Daniel Bryan made Batista tap out to the yes lock, and the long time demands of fans was finally completed. Daniel Bryan became WWE World Heavyweight Champion in the main event of Wrestlemania 30, something that I would have never imagined would happen when he first came into the WWE.



*5. Bray Wyatt vs John Cena Last Man Standing Payback* ****1/2



Spoiler: Bray Wyatt vs John Cena













I don't know what it is with Last Man Standing matches, but for what ever reason, these seem to be the matches that Cena thrives in. He always puts on his best performance, and I think his understanding of storytelling is one of the reasons. After a horrible Steel Cage match at Extreme Rules, these two knew they had to step up big time in this match to make up for it. Well, they did. 

Playing nicely to the feud between the Usos and the other members of the Wyatt family, they had the Usos help Cena during this match against Bray, who had Harper and Rowan out with him to start out the match. This benefited the match greatly in my opinion, as it prevented it from being a total mess and instead kept things focused between Bray and Cena. The pace of the match was great for a LMS match, they played with the concept very well and didn't go overboard with it. When Harper and Rowan came back, and the Usos came back as well, they where used very well and set up some damn good spots to keep them out of the match. Both Bray and Cena looked great in this match, the action was great and wasn't all over the place like their Steel Cage match. I don't really know how else to describe this match, you just simply have to watch it to understand what I'm talking about. Cena would come out on top in this match, in a move that angered many, but in the end, both guys looked great. Very good match and a very good finish to their feud.



*4. Daniel Bryan vs Triple H Wrestlemania XXX* ****1/2



Spoiler: Daniel Bryan vs Triple H













Make no mistake about it, this match should have happened a long time ago. But all that matters now is that it finally did happen, and while there is a lot of significant meaning behind this match, I will not focus on that. This match is overshadowed by the main event, as it should considering how it had the better finish and had Bryan finally winning the big one. With that said, however, the beginning, middle, and near end cannot be ignored, which is what I will focus on here. This might be one of the most well put together matches ever. The flow in this match is incredible. Nothing feels forced. From the very beginning, you know what the story of this match is. Triple H doesn't take Bryan seriously, and Bryan takes advantage of this. Hunter eventually uses the kayfabe shoulder injury to his advantage, and he does a great job using it to play the heel role in this match, which in my opinion is what's so great about it. It goes back to the old days of when Ric Flair would play the heel role to near perfection in his matches. Hunter not only made Bryan look like a true underdog who has what it takes to beat anyone, he made him look like a main eventer. Along with that, you have great in ring action, great emotion, and damn good back and forth sequences between Triple H and Bryan. Bryan would go on to win this match in a finish that seemed to come out of no where, but none the less, this match was great and lived up to its hype.



*3. Team Authority (Seth Rollins, Kane, Luke Harper, Rusev and Mark Henry) vs Team Cena (John Cena, Dolph Ziggler, Eric Rowan, Big Show and Ryback) Traditional Survivor Series Match Survivor Series* ****3/4



Spoiler: Team Authority vs Team Cena













This match was built up big by the WWE, and they treated it as one of the most important matches of all time. Now, of course, we know they do that all the time, but this match indeed felt big. The atmosphere, the drama, what was at stake, and most importantly, we weren't really sure how it was going to end. And then this match started. And we were all immediately caught off guard by Mark Henry being eliminated right off the bat by the Big Show. From there on out, the greatness of this match was put on display.

Every person (besides Henry of course) had their moments to shine. They where given their fifteen minutes of fame. There was an incredible balance of action to go along with the great pacing of the match. Rusev was great in his short amount of time, Ryback was great, Rowan was great, hell even Big Show wasn't bad. In fact I found myself enjoying his in ring work in this match, because he got straight to the point rather than stall for time like he usually does. This was already turning out to be a very good traditional survivor series match.

And then the last fifteen or so minutes of the match happened. Dolph Ziggler ended up being the only one on his team left against Kane, Harper and Rollins. And what resulted was truly something special. Ziggler fought for his life against all three men, and eventually managed to eliminate Kane and Harper. Then it was down to him and Rollins. The sequences and action between them was outstanding, and the emotion was incredible. The crowd was really into this match, and they where on the edge of their seat. And then came the debut that was 12+ years in the making. Finally, after all of this time, Sting finally debuted in the WWE. And he made a big impact, costing Triple H and team authority the match against Team Cena, and ultimately giving Cena's team the win. But at this point, it wasn't about Cena, it was about Dolph Ziggler, who was responsible for the elimination of four members of team Authority (he got out of the way when Rusev tried to dive onto him on the announce table, causing Rusev's count out elimination). Outstanding booking, outstanding emotion, outstanding match.



*2. Daniel Bryan vs Bray Wyatt Royal Rumble* ****3/4



Spoiler: Daniel Bryan vs Bray Wyatt













This match was surprisingly underrated pretty badly by Dave Meltzer, only getting a **** rating. Never the less, many others felt that this was an incredible match between two people who had been feuding for quite some time now, but never had an actual one on one match. This match occurred at the peak of the yes movement, which was going strong after fans learned that Bryan would not be competing in the Royal Rumble that night. Never the less, this match delivered, in every way possible. We saw some awesome spots from both Bryan and Bray in this match, including an insane finisher spot where Bray caught Bryan after he dove through the second rope to the outside, and hit his sister Abigail finisher on Bryan onto the barricade. They did a great job focusing on Bryan's head and neck, which Bray used to utilize his advantage. Bryan's comeback points where done very well, and the story they told was excellent. The selling, flow and overall match was just done so nicely, there's not a whole lot they could have done to make this match any better than it already was. But what really got this match higher on the list was the crowd involvement. They were really into it and made the match a hell of a lot funner than it should have been. It goes without saying that no one expected this match to be this good before it happened. That's the greatness of Daniel Bryan for ya (who, by the way, lost this match, which pissed off his fans even further).



*1. The Shield vs The Wyatt Family Six Man Tag Team Match Elimination Chamber* *****



Spoiler: The Shield vs The Wyatt Family













































And this years winner is the same type of match that I started out this list with, a six man tag team match only this time there are different opponents for the Shield, the Wyatt Family. Fans wanted this match to happen for months, these two factions received critical acclaim from many fans. They were the two big three man stables that had been around for a significant amount of time. This was a match that just needed to happen. And when rumors of the Shield breaking up at the Rumble, EC or even Wrestlemania where occurring, it looked like this match wasn't going to happen. Thankfully, it did.

This was, surprisingly, another match that got underrated by Meltzer, only getting a ****1/4 rating. A good rating, sure, but underwhelming for something like this. I can't say why, because there's just so many things that are right about this match that you just have to see it to understand what I am talking about. Before, I gave this match a ****3/4 rating, but now, I feel that this match deserves the full *****, because I don't see anything about this match that is wrong with it. There's nothing I would change. From start to finish, this match is done perfectly. Even Reigns does a great job in this match. Yes. Mother fucking Roman Reigns was actually great in this. Anything that you want in a match, whether it be great storytelling and psychology, great in ring action, great crowd involvement, big drama, near falls, great booking, this match has it all. This match will go down as a undermined classic, as it wasn't even a contender for match of the year by WWE at the slammys. None the less, it's my match of the year for this list, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks this.

Again, if you are a Pro Wrestling fan, and you enjoy good matches, watch this match. Even if you aren't a WWE fan, even if you haven't seen their product in a long time because you think it's shit, that's fine, but find a way to see this match. You will not be disappointed.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Great work that was a fantastic read and I agree with a lot of those ecen if the rathings are slightly different.

I guess my favourite marches from this year not on your list would beWyatts shield raw 3/3/14 Ambrose vs Rollins 8/18/14 fca but you covered the basics.

Also both mitb ladder matches especially the one won by Rollins it was a good year for PPV matches I enjoyed that thanks


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Mr. Hankey The Christmas Poo said:


> I was reading about original WrestleMania plans a while ago, and iirc, they were thinking of doing Triple H vs Ray Lewis at WM17.
> 
> glad we got the Taker match instead.


Thanks for that. Im actually enjoying the build up for the match TBH. Im onto the March 26th 2001 episode of Raw atm, the one where WCW gets bought.

Just gone done watching the 22nd March 2001 Smackdown, with the Austin/Rock/JR sitdown interview. Close to WM17 now. :mark: 

Ill see if it holds up when i watch it, probably tomorrow if i have time.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Contrary to popular opinion here, I still favour WM 17 above 19. 19 was more consistent, but imo 17 felt more epic and more diverse. 

And as far as I'm concerned, 2014's top 10 (WWE only) looks like this:

1) Cesaro vs Zayn Arrival (****3/4)
2) Shield vs Wyatts Chamber (****3/4)
3) Neville vs Zayn R-Evolution (****1/2)
4) Team Cena vs Team Authority (****1/2)
5) HHH vs Bryan WM (****1/4)
6) Neville vs Zayn vs Kidd vs Breeze (****1/4)
7) Cena vs Cesaro Raw Feb (****1/4)
8) Rollins vs Ambrose Raw Aug (****1/4)
9) Bryan vs Wyatt RR (****1/4)
10) Orton vs Bryan vs Batista (****)

'14 was a pretty good year in-ring (even if the product overall is at all-time lows quite frankly), although I still think last year stomps it.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Wrestlemania 19 probably has the best card ever but overall I enjoy WM x7 more for the feel of the era the better main event and just as a themed show in general. Those two and three will probably forever be my three favourite.

7,8,14 and 24 are also other favs



Just some tv matches Dolph has impressed me with in the last few months with dates if so and so hasn't seen them.


Ziggler Orton RAW IC TITLE
10/20/14

Ziggler Cesaro SMACKDOWN IC TITLE
10/24/14

Then that sunday it looked like it'd be an epic two out of three falls match with Ziggler and cesaro at hell in a cell.

Despite that match having a great opening five minutes of mat wrestling Dolph won it in two straight falls, had potential was a shame.

Ziggler Cesaro Kidd SMACKDOWN TRIPLE THREAT ELIMINATION IC TITLE MATCH
11/14/14

Ziggler Harper SMACKDOWN IC TITLE MATCH

11/28/14 

They had another match I believe 12/5/14 that was a kick out fest but this was a golden match

I also enjoyed

Ziggler Rollins SD LIVE
12/16/14

Ziggler Harper RAW IC TITLE MATCH
12/22/14


Those stand out as the better tv matches in the last few months by wwe anyway.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

x2dd9og

*The Rock vs 'Stone Cold' Steve Austin Build up Video (Wrestlemania 17)*

_From Original WWF DVD. Unedited._

Uploaded this seeing as im close to watching the event. If anyone wants me to upload the Rock/Austin/JR sit down interview, lemme know. EDIT: Will look to upload it tomorrow.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

I really need to watch all of Wrestlemania X7 again.

I have probably watched the event 20 times. That sounds like a lot but it was almost 20 years ago and I reckon back in 2001-2005 I watched it a few times a year, so 20 is a fair bet. It is the best show for me and I haven't seen it in about a year I'd say.

I have it on my Sony Xperia as well as a lot of other classic matches.

I love my Xperia I just place it on my chest and it's fantastic quality, I have all my 5 star matches on that device as well as PPV's including WM X7.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Bruh, just show your friend the main event from Survivor Series this year. If that doesn't make him root his little heart out for the guy, I'm not sure if anything will.
> 
> BUT if it doesn't,
> 
> ...


He is a casual fan. Watched SS and loved it. Told him the match with ADR at Payback and he enjoyed it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Jim Ross Interview w/ The Rock & Steve Austin (Smackdown 03.22.2001)*

x2deheu

_Taken from Live broadcast._


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Thanks a lot for the upload zep!


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

My top 10 Dolph Ziggler matches

1. vs Daniel Bryan- BR 2010 ****1/2
2. vs ADR- Payback 2013 ****1/2
3. vs Tyson Kidd&Cesaro- SmackDown 2014 ****1/2
4. vs Rey Mysterio- Summerslam 2009- ****1/4
5. vs John Cena- TLC 2012 ****1/4
6. vs Edge- Royal Rumble 2011 ****1/4
7. vs Randy Orton- NOC 2014- ****
8. vs Luke Harper- TLC 2014 ****
9. vs Chris Jericho- Summerlslam 2012 ***3/4
10. vs CM Punk- RAW 2011 ***3/4


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

What's everyone's opinion on these two

Bryan Punk OTL 5/20/12 **** 3/4
Bryan Punk MITB **** 1/4


That over the limit match along with cena punk mitb 11 and this year's chamber wyatts and shield are the only three matches I have at **** 3/4 since no way out 2006.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*WWF Wrestlemania 17*:

*DVD Extra: Grandmaster Sexay & Steve Blackman v. X-Pac & Justin Credible* *

*Intercontinental Title: Chris Jericho © vs. William Regal* **1/2
*Right to Censor (w/ Steven Richards) vs. The APA (w/ Jackie) and Tazz* *1/2
*WWF Hardcore Title: Raven © vs. Kane vs. The Big Show* ***
*WWF European Title: Test © vs. Eddie Guerrero (w/ Perry Saturn)* **1/4
*Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit* ****
*WWF Woman’s Title: Ivory vs. Chyna* N/A Just a squash really,
*Street Fight: Vince McMahon (w/ Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley) vs. Shane McMahon* ***1/2
*TLC II: WWF Tag Titles: The Dudley Boyz © vs. The Hardy Boyz vs. Edge and Christian* ****1/2
*Gimmick Battle Royal* N/A Still fun though lol.
*The Undertaker vs. HHH* ****1/4
*WWF Title: No DQ: The Rock © vs. “Stone Cold” Steve Austin* ****3/4

Obviously this PPV has been covered a million times, but im watching WWF 2001, so  One thing i would say, Angle/Benoit went up massivly on this watch. Ive never been a big fan of it, but fuck it, i now consider it a classic in it's own right TBH, and i loved it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Regardless of the (in)fame of that pair out here, I definitely think Angle/Benoit WM 17 is totally a great match (only 2nd to Backlash '01 as their best). Yes I may be biased since this is one of both mine and my girlfriend's childhood matches, so we both mark the _fuck_ out for it (8*D), but I genuinely look at it as an epic example of how to pull off a mad scramble between two guys w/the same wrestling style that really don't like each other and simply want to humilliate the other in the grand stage. 

Hell, that whole show in general is one that we watch the whole time. It's easily one of the all-timers, and like I mentioned here before, I find it better than the more consistent but less 'epic' 19. SS 2002 is the best (WWE) PPV ever, but WM 17 is definitely a close, close second for me.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Taengoo's Little Helper said:


> vs. Del Rio - Payback 2013
> vs. Daniel Bryan - Bragging Rights 2010
> vs. Rey Mysterio - Night of Champions 2009
> vs. Rey Mysterio - Summerslam 2009
> ...


That's a damn good list right there. A good (not great) one of his that is underrated is one against Masters on Superstars.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ad Infinitum said:


> That's a damn good list right there. A good (not great) one of his that is underrated is one against Masters on Superstars.


That would be in my top 3-5 of his if I was making one, damn great match


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Bountiful Nikki Bella Claus said:


> That would be in my top 3-5 of his if I was making one, damn great match


I personally have not seen it in a year, so me judging it would not be too reliable.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Does Hayley still post in this thread? If so, thoughts on no sells in puro and/or indy matches?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

No sells are always bad. But they are the very worst in indy and puro.

(I'm Hayley's alt so I answered w/e FEET or something)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Regardless of the (in)fame of that pair out here, I definitely think Angle/Benoit WM 17 is totally a great match (only 2nd to Backlash '01 as their best). Yes I may be biased since this is one of both mine and my girlfriend's childhood matches, so we both mark the _fuck_ out for it (8*D), but I genuinely look at it as an epic example of how to pull off a mad scramble between two guys w/the same wrestling style that really don't like each other and simply want to humilliate the other in the grand stage.
> 
> Hell, that whole show in general is one that we watch the whole time. It's easily one of the all-timers, and like I mentioned here before, I find it better than the more consistent but less 'epic' 19. SS 2002 is the best (WWE) PPV ever, but WM 17 is definitely a close, close second for me.


Yeah, im looking forward to continuing onto the road to Backlash, and to the PPV. Think i did watch that Benoit/Angle match not too long ago TBH, its the Submission one isn't it.

One thing since ive been watching 2001, is im finding Test a tad, i dunno, underrated. Not sure if that is the correct word, but ive been kinda liking his matches much more that i have noticed before.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I don't think I could list a top 10 for Ziggler matches if somebody was paying me. Other than the obvious 2 or 3 I'm struggling. :side:


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

ATF said:


> Regardless of the (in)fame of that pair out here, I definitely think Angle/Benoit WM 17 is totally a great match (only 2nd to Backlash '01 as their best). Yes I may be biased since this is one of both mine and my girlfriend's childhood matches, so we both mark the _fuck_ out for it (8*D), but I genuinely look at it as an epic example of how to pull off a mad scramble between two guys w/the same wrestling style that really don't like each other and simply want to humilliate the other in the grand stage.
> 
> Hell, that whole show in general is one that we watch the whole time. It's easily one of the all-timers, and like I mentioned here before, I find it better than the more consistent but less 'epic' 19. SS 2002 is the best (WWE) PPV ever, but WM 17 is definitely a close, close second for me.




You haven't seen Unforgiven 02, Royal Rumble 03, or the Cage match in June of 01?

Granted RR 03 Might be a bit overrated, I still love it but Unforgiven 02 no questions asked is one of the greatest wrestling matchers of all time between Angle and Chris.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I have seen all of their matches actually, and I find them a bit overrated myself. I do think they're all good and fun to watch (UF is pretty good, Cage match is balls out insane and I have RR at a very solid ***1/2), but they're not QUITE what I'm into. Still easily good for what they are, but I definitely like their grittier and fight-like 2001 ones (WM 17 and Backlash more precisely) better.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Well, im onto the Raw after WM17. Let the Austin heel run and the Invasion begin.

One thing, as i can't remember myself (i was watching back then, but some of that period of my life is a blur TBH)  But, was the Austin heel turn a massive shock, or was there rumours beforehand?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, according to what I know most people's reactions were to WM 17's ending, it was actually a legit shock. Don't know if that's legit tho 

Isn't that post-17 show the one w/that Austin/Rock Cage match + the Powertrip formation?


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

ATF said:


> Well, according to what I know most people's reactions were to WM 17's ending, it was actually a legit shock. Don't know if that's legit tho
> 
> Isn't that post-17 show the one w/that Austin/Rock Cage match + the Powertrip formation?


Yes, where they beat the shit out of Rock. I always wondered if they did that as a punishment for leaving. In hindsight it's pretty sad.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Brock said:


> Well, im onto the Raw after WM17. Let the Austin heel run and the Invasion begin.
> 
> One thing, as i can't remember myself (i was watching back then, but some of that period of my life is a blur TBH)  But, was the Austin heel turn a massive shock, or was there rumours beforehand?


vivalabrave (!) was there live and he made a great, great post on it elsewhere a few years ago. I'd post it here if he'd the green light (actually i don't care I just cbf finding it). IIRC I think the basic jist was 'people kinda knew and definitely knew once Vince walked to the ring. we all still cheered b/c Austin in Texas'.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Well, according to what I know most people's reactions were to WM 17's ending, it was actually a legit shock. Don't know if that's legit tho
> 
> Isn't that post-17 show the one w/that Austin/Rock Cage match + the Powertrip formation?


Yup, and a Trish/Steph whipping match i think judging by the opening promo.  Ive always been a fan of the Austin heel turn, mainly because of his ring work and the Powertrip TBH. We'll see how it holds up as i go through the year.


----------



## lemo (Jan 1, 2006)

Cesaro vs Eric Rowan from this week Superstars was fantastic. Absolutely Rowan's best single match to date. Cesaro was tremendous in this match, just phenomenal. Everybody needs to watch it.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Have you guys mentioned networkplaylists.com on here yet? Actually makes the Network worth watching.. working my way through a playlist of Meltzer's 4 star matches


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I made a list of everything from this year that I want to watch. I've got PPV covered but I'm drawing a blank for TV stuff outside the obvious ones (Cena/Cesaro, Orton/Cesaro, Orton/Bryan, Shield/Wyatts, IC Triple Threat). Is there anything else worth checking out?


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Can people please like the poster above any time there is a match on a show that generally isn't watched worth pointing out like ex Cesaro Rowan here keep posting the matches in this thread? Thanks

I make a point to watch every pretty good to amazing match ever so ya...


I'll check the match out being a big fan of both guys.

Edit - either you got the names or I got the date wrong it was swagger and Harpernot Rowan and cesaro....I may have the wrong episode because I doubt you'd screw the names up for both guys.

If you did and this was the match it definitely wasn't Harper's beat singles match but it was a damn fibe one on one.

*** 3/4


As for Austin's heel turn it was shocking to everybody I was on the net and don't remembet any spoilers about a heel turn because Austin going heel was sort of unheard of at the time.


If you watch episodes of raw and smackdown in early 2001 there are tons of clues like Austin going into McMahon dressing room and the scene cuts off with no follow up....I should have caught on and it's amazing that nobody really did

Mcmahons quote at X7 was dead on..."you want shocling? Tonight you'll get.. shocking...I guarantee it"


----------



## lemo (Jan 1, 2006)

Bro you watched Main Event match between Harper & Swagger. Cesaro vs Eric Rowan was from today episode of WWE Superstars.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I remember the last time I sat through 2001 WWF. Was amazed at how OBVIOUS the Austin/McMahon angle actually was... but when I saw it the first time in 2001 it was the biggest shock ever :lmao. That sit-down interview with Rock/Austin and JR is one of the biggest *HEY EVERYONE AUSTIN IS PROBABLY GONNA TURN HEEL* moments during the build up lol. And it's a tremendous interview segment too. Should be watched on a weekly basis by everyone. And by everyone I mean the current roster in WWE, the creative, and Vince McMahon, so they can see how 2 of the absolute top stars and the single greatest announcer do it. God knows they need some fucking inspiration atm...


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

BEST FOR CHRISTMAS said:


> I made a list of everything from this year that I want to watch. I've got PPV covered but I'm drawing a blank for TV stuff outside the obvious ones (Cena/Cesaro, Orton/Cesaro, Orton/Bryan, Shield/Wyatts, IC Triple Threat). Is there anything else worth checking out?


I'm not good with remembering dates, but:

Rollins vs. Ambrose FCA (RAW in September or October)
Sheamus vs. Del Rio vs. Ziggler (Main Event in March)
Del Rio vs. Reigns (Smackdown) & Del Rio vs. Ambrose (honestly can't remember which show this was on, I think RAW)

Miz & Ziggler had a ridiculously fun IC Title match on RAW. It was the first one they had in a series of many I believe. Prior to Summerslam if I'm not mistaken.

Sheamus & Ambrose had a highly touted US Title match back in May I think, but I never saw it myself. 

All I can think of atm. Willing to bet there's a bunch of gems on Main Event and a slew of tag matches out there that are worth watching.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

BEST FOR CHRISTMAS said:


> I made a list of everything from this year that I want to watch. I've got PPV covered but I'm drawing a blank for TV stuff outside the obvious ones (Cena/Cesaro, Orton/Cesaro, Orton/Bryan, Shield/Wyatts, IC Triple Threat). Is there anything else worth checking out?




You wouldn't of thought I'd spent half of 2014 away in rehab in Vancouver with no TV until June of this year. 


Still I have caught up on everything this year...here are all worthy matches from this year to check out...



That FCA match between Ambrose and Rollins on Raw was on August 18th by the way, not September or October.

Here we go and enjoy: 




--
*2014 Matches:*
--


*Note*::_
-These aren't in order of Date or anything just Best to Worst IMO.....

_



*MOTY- * -The Wyatt Family (Bray Wyatt, Erick Rowan and Luke Harper) vs The Shield (Roman Reigns, Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins) 6 Man Tag Team Match WWE Elimination Chamber February 23 2014 


-Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan vs Batista Triple Threat WWE World Heavyweight Championship Match Wrestlemania 30 April 6 2014 



-The Authority (Randy Orton, Triple H, Kane) vs The Shield (Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose) Six Man Tag Team Match WWE Extreme Rules May 4 2014



-Bray Wyatt vs John Cena Last Man Standing Match WWE Payback June 1 2014 


-Seth Rollins vs Dean Ambrose vs Rob Van Dam vs Kofi Kingston vs Dolph Ziggler vs Jack Swagger WWE Heavyweight Championship Contract MITB Ladder Match WWE Money in the Bank June 29 2014


-Luke Harper vs Dolph Ziggler IC Title Ladder Match WWE TLC December 14 2014 


-Bray Wyatt vs Daniel Bryan WWE Royal Rumble January 26 2014


-John Cena vs Antonio Cesaro WWE Raw Feruary 17 2014 


-The Wyatt Family (Bray Wyatt, Erick Rowan and Luke Harper) vs The Shield (Roman Reigns, Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins) 6 Man Tag Team Match WWE Monday Night Raw March 3 2014 


-Daniel Bryan vs Triple H Winner goes to Main Event WWE Wrestlemania 30 April 7 2014 


-Evolution (Triple H, Dave Batista and Randy Orton) vs The Shield (Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose) Six Man Elimination No Holds Barred Tag Team Match WWE Payback June 1 2014


-Adrian Neville vs Sami Zayn vs Tyler Breeze vs Tyson Kidd NXT World Title Fatal Fourway Match WWE NXT September 11 2014 


-Stardust and Goldust vs The Uso's World Tag Title Match WWE Night of Champions September 21 2014 


-Sheamus vs Antonio Cesaro US Title Match WWE Night of Champions September 21 2014


-Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho WWE Night of Champions September 21 2014 


-Dean Ambrose vs Seth Rollins Hell in a Cell Match WWE Hell in a Cell October 26 2014


-Dolph Ziggler vs Tyson Kidd vs Antonio Cesaro Triple Threat Elimination IC Title Match WWE Smackdown! November 14 2014 


-Team Cena (Dolph Ziggler, John Cena, Erick Rowan, The Big Show, Ryback) vs Team Authority (Seth Rollins, Luke Harper, Mark Henry, Rusev and Corporate Kane) Ten Man Elimination Match WWE Survivor Series November 23 2014 


-Adrian Neville vs Sami Zayn NXT Championship Match WWE NXT TakeOver: R Evolution December 11 2014 


-Bray Wyatt vs Dean Ambrose Tables Ladders and Chairs Match WWE TLC December 14 2014 


-Antonio Cesaro vs Dolph Ziggler IC Title Match WWE Smackdown! 10/24/14 


-Dolph Ziggler vs Randy Orton IC Title Match October 20 2014


-Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan WWE Raw February 3 2014 


-Dolph Ziggler vs Luke Harper WWE Smackdown! November 28 2014 


-Bray Wyatt vs Chris Jericho WWE Summerslam August 17 2014 


-Bray Wyatt vs Chris Jericho Cage Match WWE Raw September 8 2014


-Dolph Ziggler vs Seth Rollins WWE Super Smackdown! Live December 16 2014 




-The Shield (Roman Reigns, Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins) vs The Wyatt Family (Bray Wyatt, Erick Rowan and Luke Harper) WWE The Main Event April 8 2014 



-The Shield (Roman Reigns, Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins) vs Sheamus, Daniel Bryan and Christian 6 Man Tag Team Match WWE Smackdown! Februry 14 2014 



-Antonio Cesaro vs Sheamus WWE Payback June 1 2014


-Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan vs John Cena vs Cesaro vs Christian vs Sheamus Elimination Chamber WWE World Heavyweight Championship Match WWE Elimination Chamber February 17 2014 


-Sheamus vs Dean Ambrose US Title Match WWE Smackdown! May 9 2014 


-The Real Americans vs Rhodes Dynasty WWE The Main Event March 18 2014


-John Cena vs Seth Rollins Cage Match WWE Raw December 15 2014 


-Bray Wyatt vs Sheamus WWE Raw June 16 2014 


-Luke Harper vs Dolph Ziggler IC Title Match WWE Raw December 22 2014


-Seth Rollins vs Dolph Ziggler IC Title Match WWE Smackdown Live! December 16 2014 




There's also been a few Ambrose-Wyatt gimmick matches like Boot Camp, Mircale on 24th, and Cena-Orton HIAC, among other matches I haven't listed but I covered pretty much the basics.



I really liked as I pointed out in my last post Swagger vs Harper from ME 12/13/14 and apparently Rowan-Cesaro from Superstars is good also




lemo said:


> Bro you watched Main Event match between Harper & Swagger. Cesaro vs Eric Rowan was from today episode of WWE Superstars.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App



Ahh...thank you.

I just found that out before I came on here and you beat before I got a chance to edit.

OH WELL you opened the door for me to watch a match I wouldn't of otherwise watched.

Going to check that out now.

I really liked Harper-Swagger..


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Haven't really watched any wrestling outside of bits of weekly stuff for a while, aside from the PPV Rambles which I'm already bored of because NYR bores me and I've not even managed to watch the opener yet :lmao.

So someone recommend me a match, NO LONGER THAN 15 MINUTES, from any promotion anywhere pre-2000. Except Lucha. Sorry Elite peoples .


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> I remember the last time I sat through 2001 WWF. Was amazed at how OBVIOUS the Austin/McMahon angle actually was... but when I saw it the first time in 2001 it was the biggest shock ever :lmao. That sit-down interview with Rock/Austin and JR is one of the biggest *HEY EVERYONE AUSTIN IS PROBABLY GONNA TURN HEEL* moments during the build up lol. And it's a tremendous interview segment too. Should be watched on a weekly basis by everyone. And by everyone I mean the current roster in WWE, the creative, and Vince McMahon, so they can see how 2 of the absolute top stars and the single greatest announcer do it. God knows they need some fucking inspiration atm...


 You know it's a great Rock segment when Cal praises it 

Not trying to say Rock alone made it great, both men did a fantastic job.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Well, i just uploaded this:

*Cactus Jack vs Chris Jericho (Big Ass Extreme Bash 03.08.1996)*

x2djtv1

Just watched the Raw where Trips/Austin destroyed the Hardy's, JR calling Trips a "sick bastard" lol. One thing i would say about 2001 so far, William Regal is damn missed as the Commissioner. Plus, all the shit i give Triple H, 2001 was the one fucking time i wanted him around lol, as i thought the Powertrip story with Austin was great TBH.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Did they ever give a good reason as to why Austin and HHH joined forces? I know that they gave a reason, but I recall it being a really lazy one.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Not really TBH lol. When JR interviewed Austin, he bought up the fact that HHH ran him over etc, but Austin just said something along the lines of "Yeah well, he is a sick bastard so its best to have him on my side".


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

This isn't true by any means but I read somewhere that they only joined forces so that Austin can get booed. Because teaming with HHH will get most wrestlers booed. Kinda like if you're Cena's opponent; you're likely to get cheered.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Brock said:


> Not really TBH lol. When JR interviewed Austin, he bought up the fact that HHH ran him over etc, but Austin just said something along the lines of "Yeah well, he is a sick bastard so its best to have him on my side".


 lol I remember that, that's where Austin beats the hell out of JR and Vince comes out and says "that's your best friend and you're taking it easy on him!" This is the interview. Around 7:30 JR asks him the question on HHH but there isn't a part 2 available (I think).


----------



## TheChoppingMachine (Mar 25, 2014)

Cesaro vs Rowan sounds good, I'm gonna try to watch it tonight.



BEST FOR CHRISTMAS said:


> I made a list of everything from this year that I want to watch. I've got PPV covered but I'm drawing a blank for TV stuff outside the obvious ones (Cena/Cesaro, Orton/Cesaro, Orton/Bryan, Shield/Wyatts, IC Triple Threat). Is there anything else worth checking out?


Antonio Cesaro & Jack Swagger vs. Christian & Sheamus from the 02/10 Raw. Trust me. :trips5


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, doubt it's true but......................i found myself thinking of something along the same lines when they cut a promo together, and Triple H did pretty much all of the talking, i was sorta saying to myself, yeah great way to get heat is to stick to HHH.

Think this was after they destroyed the Hardy's though lol.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Totally forgot Cesaro/Swagger vs Sheamus/Christian from Raw 2/10/14


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> I remember the last time I sat through 2001 WWF. Was amazed at how OBVIOUS the Austin/McMahon angle actually was... but when I saw it the first time in 2001 it was the biggest shock ever :lmao. That sit-down interview with Rock/Austin and JR is one of the biggest *HEY EVERYONE AUSTIN IS PROBABLY GONNA TURN HEEL* moments during the build up lol. And it's a tremendous interview segment too. Should be watched on a weekly basis by everyone. And by everyone I mean the current roster in WWE, the creative, and Vince McMahon, so they can see how 2 of the absolute top stars and the single greatest announcer do it. God knows they need some fucking inspiration atm...


Thats a great topic. If you could round up all the current WWE talent and creative staff, sit them in a room, and show them different matches, promos, and segments that you believe best represent what pro wrestling is, what would it be and why?

For me, a few stand out immediately:

1. The series of sit down interviews between Mankind and JR from 1997. Shows talent how to really get inside of their character, believe they are truly the person they are representing, and how to ad lib and think on your feet.

2. The Regal vs Finlay match at Uncensored 1996. Show them that being whores for cheap pops and nonsensical high spots are not required to have an all time great match. Show them that sound fundamental wrestling and good snug work is timeless, and that the crowd should never dictate what type of match or story you are going to tell, you dictate to the crowd your own story and work on immersing them in it.

3. The Dude Love vs Steve Austin match at Over the Edge 1998. For creative, if you are going to go crazy with the booking in a match, do it in a way that is fun, makes sense, adds to the story, and leaves the fans happy rather than frustrated.

4. The "Cane Dewey" promo from Mick Foley in ECW. This is how you cut a fucking promo, you pour your heart, your soul, you're entire being into what you are saying. You make it so the crowd actually FEELS what you are saying, because you believe it in your heart.

5. The Mark Henry vs CM Punk match from Raw 4/2/12. This is a clinic, this is how you work a monster heel vs small under dog match while keeping both guys looking great. Mark Henry was just incredible here, he was evil incarnate and he was bent on destroying Punk.

6. A continuation from my previous post, the Vader vs Dustin Rhodes match from COTC 1994. Again, this is one of the very best and most enjoyable matches out there, it's a match where both guys were so in tuned with their characters that your disbelief is suspended from the moment the bell sounds until the moment the ref counts the final pin fall. Makes Vader look dominant in victory and Rhodes look like the toughest guy ever in defeat.

7. Watch the entrance for Eddie Guerrero for WM 21 vs Rey Mysterio, then watch the entrance for Eddie Guerrero for his 6/23/05 SD! match vs Rey Mysterio. See the metamorphosis Eddie went through as he switched from baby face to heel. He changed EVERYTHING about himself. Traded out all the love able qualities for things the crowd would truly despise. Eddie refused to give the crowd one single thing to cheer him for, THAT is what a real heel should do. This is how you do a heel turn.

8. Any of the famous Macho Man promos, any of the famous Ric Flair promos. This is how you sell a fucking match and get people into a building. These guys were some of the all time best at just "dropping into their characters" and just rattling off brilliant lines and non sequiturs that forced people to say "I've gotta see this match!" ESPECIALLY, watch the Ric Flair promo from 2005-2006, the one he cuts backstage on Carito. The more I think about it, the more I feel this really might be the greatest promo ever. Flair bears his entire soul for the world to see, and berates a young Carlito into realizing what it really takes "to be the man". Yep, Ric Flair, at damn near 60 years of age, cuts probably the greatest promo ever. All because no one scripted it or force fed him lines that were not real. They just said "hey Ric we are going to shoot a scene where you confront Carlito about not having the work ethic or passion that's required to be a star" and Ric took it from there and delivered something that will stand the test of time, a true piece of art. I love that promo so much. 

9. I'd sit the 3 stooges of the commentary booth down. For Michael Cole, I'd make him watch the Undertaker vs Jeff Hardy ladder match from Raw 2002. Make him listen to the emotion and sincerity that JR has, how JR puts over Hardy like a million bucks even though most knew there wasn't a chance in hell Taker was losing to Jeff. For JBL I'd make him watch the Flair vs Perfect Loser Leaves town match on Raw 1993. Make him pay attention to Heenan, see how a heel commentator is supposed to work. How to put over both the heels and the face while still being funny and treating the match as a serious affair. For Lawler I'd make him watch his own work, Rocky vs Benoit Fully Loaded 2000. Remember how good he was in his prime, and if he's not capable of doing that sort of work again than he needs to ride off into the sunset.

I'm sure there are more that I'm forgetting. Those are just the first things that popped into my head when I tried to think of examples that the creative and talent in the current WWE need to see to be reminded what real, good pro wrestling looks like.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Im still to watch Regal/Finlay from Uncensored.  Ill watch it tonight, promise.

I was actually going to ask what are the top ten-ish Regal matches too.

Oh, fucking GREAT POST btw Chris.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Yes awesome, well thought out post there RB, or "CHRIS" I guess...:laugh:

I'm sure the main stars have seen matches but for new guys I think it really depends on what style they use but for every match, there is a different formula. I think watching the entire King of the Ring 1993 event is a good idea to watch how Bret Hart wrestled three different guys and continued to have 3 different classic matches with each of them and remembering to sell the hand injury he sustained in the first match of the night with Razor...plus that Hennig-Bret semi-finals match is my favourite match ever so I just think it's an essential watch for pro-wrestling anyway.

I think the Benoit-Regal series from Velocity should be studied. Very quick matches those are, even if the majority are the same type of match and finish with a few different spots in-between. They show specific attention to mat-wrestling but more importantly how effective a hold and counter hold match with direct focus of the match being on "THOSE HOLDS" can still feature "HOLY SHIT" spots with amazing bumping, and a hard-nosed attitude, compete level. I'm talking about headbutting each other, blading, a ddt on the apron, monkey flips out of no where and such....these things happening even when the pace before that was extremely methodical and not there to PLEASE the casual fan. Of course this type of match should generally be saved for PPV or a C show like Velocity or Superstars because if it was on a Raw or Smackdown! a lot of people would change the channel unfortunately, it's not eye candy to the casuals.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Finally watched Regal/Finlay from Uncensored. Im not going to post all
the superlatives for this match, as they have been posted before, and i agree with each and every one of them.

:lenny x 1000

One match everyone should watch, ill say that. Dusty Rhodes was also at his best (or worst, depends on your point of view lol). Plunder? Jives? Belly Welly? Maximus something? :lol

Bonified classic, simple as.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> Finally watched Regal/Finlay from Uncensored. Im not going to post all
> the superlatives for this match, as they have been posted before, and i agree with each and every one of them.
> 
> :lenny x 1000
> ...



Yep yep yep, so happy you finally watched it. I have it as the #4 match in WCW History (1988-2001) behind only Flair/Steamboat 2/3 Falls, Steamboat/Rude 30 Min IronMan, and Eddie/Rey HH97'. Do you see why I wish guys on the current roster would study it? There is not one single thing in there you would consider a modern "high spot", there is no whoring for cheap pops from the crowd, it's just a brutally physical, classic wrestling match crossed with a brawl between 2 of the best to ever lace a pair of boots. And yes, Dusty was at his VERY best there. I actually used to hate Dusty commentary because I felt he never put the guys over in the ring enough and was always trying to get himself over, but that match actually changed my mind because Dusty is just so hilarious while still getting across just how brutal and physical the match was and how tough both guys were. I can watch that match any day and never get sick of it. It's one of those matches that hits all the sweet spots for me in what I love in pro wrestling.

Just in case you guys didn't know which Flair promo I was referring to in my previous post or hadn't seen it before, here it is:






I'm not exaggerating. I really think that's one of the greatest promos/segments in WWE history, maybe in all of wrestling. At the very least, it's my personal favorite. Ric Flair dug down deep and bared his soul to the world and spit so much truth, honesty, and reality in that segment. I believe Flair to be the greatest pro wrestler ever, in a 30+ year career filled with countless classic moments, that one right there is right near the top. How you can watch that and not get goosebumps, I will never know. It's 2 minutes of awe inspiring passion, delivered straight from the heart of the Nature Boy. THAT right there is what anyone who thinks scripting promos is a good idea should see. You can't script what Flair said. You just can't. It's too real. Too authentic. That's what every WWE wrestler should strive to achieve in their promos.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Haven't really been posting in the past month and I don't intend to post very much from this point on, but since I'm here, might as well update my progress with the Attitude Era. Just finished watching Vince win the WWF Championship against Triple H and it's humorous to see Vince of all people appear as a sympathetic figure and the crowd popping for his victory. Gotta give it to HHH, he's really coming into his own since that Heat promo with JR. Went from a bland midcarder riding DX's coattails to a top guy on his own in a few months and I'm guessing it will only get better as I head into 2000. And another thing I've been noticing, does Chyna know _anything_ other than that forearm and the lowblow? (and DDT) I swear those are the only moves she ever does and she does them every week.

So far in my journey, I gotta say I prefer 1999 to 98 AND 97. Match quality is probably the worst of the three but the year on a whole has been so much more fun. I enjoy the weeklies and the storylines are more enjoyable despite the constant vintage Russo stuff with the schizophrenic booking. This is the second time Vince is a face in the same year although to their credit, they did a good job working their way around the Fully Loaded stipulation. This year easily surpasses 1998 for me because The Rock is in full GOAT mode from the first moment to the end of it, product is shifting more towards people that interest me with less obscure filler that was in 98 plus there's no boring Vince/Taker/Kane vs Austin feud that lasts forever. Granted, they restarted the feud briefly for a couple of months heading into the summer here but at least it was short and now Taker is pretty much the American Badass.

The 97 mention may surprise a few but I really wasn't into that year very much at all. Reeked of so much New Generation and I just don't care about that era at all. Too many leftover jobbers taking up TV time and most of the wrestlers I'm interested in in 98-99 are still coming up in 97. Might as well do catching up and rate the PPVs I've gone through in the past month.

Over the Edge:
The Rock vs HHH - ★★
Undertaker vs Austin - ★¼ (boooooring, understandably so this time)

King of the Ring:
Hardyz vs Edge & Christian - ★★★
Undertaker vs The Rock - ★★★½
Austin vs Shane & Vince - ★★★
Everything else - DUD

Fully Loaded:
Jarrett vs Edge - ★★¼
Acolytes vs Hardyz - ★★½
D'Lo Brown vs Mideon - ½★
Big Boss Man vs Al Snow - ★★
Big Show vs Kane - 0
Ken Shamrock vs Blackman - ★★½
Road Dogg & X-Pac vs Mr. Ass & Chyna - ★
Triple H vs The Rock - ★★
Stone Cold vs Undertaker - ★★★¼

One more week and I'm on to Unforgiven, will catch it before my Network subscription expires on new year's day although I will make sure to carefully skip that Kennel from Hell garbage.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

BEST FOR CHRISTMAS said:


> I made a list of everything from this year that I want to watch. I've got PPV covered but I'm drawing a blank for TV stuff outside the obvious ones (Cena/Cesaro, Orton/Cesaro, Orton/Bryan, Shield/Wyatts, IC Triple Threat). Is there anything else worth checking out?


From the list I've compiled over the course of the year (I'll just post the top-20 TV matches, you decide what you want to check out):

1 - Dean Ambrose vs. Seth Rollins - Raw 08/18/14
2 - Cesaro vs. John Cena - Raw 02/17/14
3 - Dolph Ziggler vs. Cesaro vs. Tyson Kidd - Smackdown 11/14/14
4 - The Wyatt Family vs. The Shield - Main Event 04/08/14
5 - Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan - Raw 02/03/14
6 - Cesaro vs. Randy Orton - Smackdown 02/14/14
7 - Bad News Barrett vs. Dolph Ziggler - Raw 06/23/14
8 - Dean Ambrose vs. Cesaro - Smackdown 07/25/14
9 - Seth Rollins vs. Dolph Ziggler - Raw 06/16/14
10 - The Wyatt Family vs. The Shield - Raw 03/03/14
11 - The Shield vs. Sheamus & Rey Mysterio & Daniel Bryan - Smackdown 01/31/14
12 - Dean Ambrose vs. Bray Wyatt - Smackdown 6/13/14
13 - Sheamus vs. Rusev - Raw Post-Show 11/03/14
14 - Dolph Ziggler vs. The Miz vs. Cesaro - Raw 09/29/14
15 - The Shield vs. Sheamus & Daniel Bryan & John Cena - Raw 01/27/14
16 - The Miz vs. Dolph Ziggler - Raw 09/22/14
17 - Christian vs. Sheamus - Smackdown 02/21/14
18 - Bad News Barrett vs. Sheamus - Raw 04/21/14
19 - Sheamus & Christian vs. The Real Americans - Raw 02/10/14
20 - Sheamus vs. Cesaro - Main Event 05/13/14


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The girlfriend and I watched Royal Rumble '08 tonight. First let me clarify it was completely her idea to watch wrestling and that makes me love her even more. 

How have I never seen Orton vs. Hardy before? Match was way too much fun. Tons of high spots and bumps to keep your attention and you came out of it thinking that IF Hardy got another chance, you really think he could win it. RKO OUTTA NOWHERE!~ **** 1/2* stars

The Royal Rumble didn't give you much to see in the middle of it, but the first 10 minutes and last 5 were good shit. There was enough highlights to keep you entertained though. Michaels constantly trying to eliminate Taker even when he wasn't paying attention to him was hilarious. Shelton's elimination was outta nowhere. There weren't really any standout performances aside from _maybe _Michaels, so that was a shame. Too many big guys in this one. Not enough room for them to shine or dominate. Hilarious moment ensued where my girlfriend and I were looking at the final 5 and wondering when the hell Batista had gotten eliminated and then BOOM, he hits Umaga with a spear. :lol My biggest problem were how ALL the eliminations occurred at one time. Stretch em out and folks will care! Cena return was huge of course and the final minutes with Triple H were good. Good rumble overall.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/full-content-wwe-destruction-of-the-shield-dvd/78618/

Well bugger me, aside from not including either of the epic matches with Cody/Goldust, this is a damn near perfect release from WWE. Bluray version is a must own imo. REGAL VS AMBROSE~!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

OMFG. WWE actually got a release pretty much SPOT FUCKING ON. Yeah we all, im sure, would have added one or two more, like the Battleground match with Goldust/Cody, or against Team Hell NO/Kingston, but all in all, its difficult to complain about this one. MUST BUY.

Might it have something to do with Reigns' push. :side:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Thanks for the suggestions to those who offered them up. I'll try to get around to watching them. I always make plans and then life gets in the way as usual. My network subscription expires the 1st of Jan. I don't know whether to renew or not. I can't watch anything live because it freezes on me and I honestly don't mind dropping money on the Rumble/Mania. I don't know what to do. I also don't care so much about the main product right now so I guess I'll see. £7 a month isn't that big of a deal to me at the minute so I might just keep it anyways. 

Just to chime in on the Austin heel turn thing, I think I remember Austin saying on his latest DVD that he wanted to do the Power Trip because he wasn't sure he could get heat on his own and that's why he wanted HHH with him. Personally I thought the Power Trip were cool as shit but Taker and Kane weren't exactly the best opponents. Had Rock been there it truly would have been something. But I think I would have preferred HHH turning face while Rock was out. I remember as a kid when HHH came out during the match the Raw after X7 and I thought he was going to turn on Vince to help Rock...then he helped Austin lol. Face HHH vs. Heel Austin would have been something and they were building towards it before Trips got hurt. It's crazy to think what the WWF landscape would have looked like in 2001 had that damn quad not torn. Everything would have been different and maybe the Invasion would have happened when they had the proper names there to make it special.

And that Shield DVD looks so :mark:. I'll definitely be getting it.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

I was just re watched EC 2009 smackdown match. At least I think I'm re watching it. I really can't remember what happened. But I LOLed at Edge being eliminated so fast. Why? Was he injured?

Anyways, match was fun. Koslov was kinda off on taking spots, but still held up a little. Could tell people were severely pissed at Jeff being eliminated, and the crowd even died down quick as fuck. But as usual, the great story tellers in HHH and Taker quickly woke them up. They had some impressive exchanged, and that's easily expected between the 2 both being strong in ring generals.

What I really like was the post match, and how Taker gave HHH that look like "see you at MANIA 27 and 28, boy" :lol

Anyways, HHH REALLY should have put Orton over that MANIA.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Damnnnn, that Shield DVD listing looks fantastic. I haven't seen a single one of those FCW matches (even after hearing rave reviews), so it's probably worth the money just to own those. My ONLY minor gripe is the fact that there's so many PPV matches. Would've liked to seen them ditch a couple of those in favor of some TV contests. There was a shit ton of good ones to choose from too. 

Aside from that very small quibble, they did a wonderful job of highlighting the pivotal moments and matches from the past two years. Excellent lineup. (Y) I may actually buy it...

EDIT: Dumbass WWE double booked themselves tonight so half the roster won't even be on RAW. Ambrose, Wyatt, Reigns, Usos, Kane, & the Dust Bros are all scheduled for the Richmond house show. WTF? It's gonna be another 3 hours of Cena vs. Rollins again tonight... Orton & Barrett better make their returns for the sake of the people who will be watching.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

swagger_ROCKS said:


> I was just re watched EC 2009 smackdown match. At least I think I'm re watching it. I really can't remember what happened. But I LOLed at Edge being eliminated so fast. Why? Was he injured?
> 
> Anyways, match was fun. Koslov was kinda off on taking spots, but still held up a little. Could tell people were severely pissed at Jeff being eliminated, and the crowd even died down quick as fuck. But as usual, the great story tellers in HHH and Taker quickly woke them up. They had some impressive exchanged, and that's easily expected between the 2 both being strong in ring generals.
> 
> ...


Edge getting eliminated so quickly was used to make him really angry and take out Kofi so he got a place in the Raw EC Chamber later that night, which he won the WHC in.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Brock is supposed to be back hopefully he can save it tonight. Also, looks like I'm gonna need to buy that blu-ray by gawd


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Why the FUCK do they book house shows on the same night as Raw lol? Talk about being desperate for money.

What's next? A house show on the same night as a PPV? "Oh hey everyone, the RR is only 10 man tonight because half the roster is in Lost Springs, Wyoming for a live event! Sorry about that!"


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Willing to take a match request, if it's not already online.


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

The Shield DVD's listing looks great and all, but I don't know if it's worth buying since I've seen the FCW stuff and the PPV matches are available on the Network. The one thing I'm interested is the documentary, but is it the same one they aired on the Network a while back or a new one?


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

I'm going to be bringing in the new year by watching a number of DVD sets, Sting, NWO Revolution, John Cena's Rivalries and Attitude Era Volume 2 newly released three disc sets. I will review the four star and above matches from those sets in here.




MoxleyMoxx said:


> The Shield DVD's listing looks great and all*, but I don't know if it's worth buying since I've seen the FCW stuff and the PPV matches are available on the Network*. The one thing I'm interested is the documentary, but is it the same one they aired on the Network a while back or a new one?



I don't know about you but I love sets to have (especially in high defenition and easy access) to matches I have seen. Most DVD's I own of wrestlers, I have seen almost every match that's put on the set but the ability to own them and re-watch them is what sells it for me.

Apparently this Shield set has a good documentary as well as interviews with the guys, a good match list so it's a defenite buy for me.

You do have a point about the Network though, I don't have access in the building I live in to get the Network so that changes things, if I had the network I don't know if I'd buy many of the sets, so fair enough.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

MoxleyMoxx said:


> The Shield DVD's listing looks great and all, but I don't know if it's worth buying since I've seen the FCW stuff and the PPV matches are available on the Network. The one thing I'm interested is the documentary, but is it the same one they aired on the Network a while back or a new one?


Its the same doc that was on the network, but extended.


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

Brock said:


> Its the same doc that was on the network, but extended.


That seals it then. I'm getting it.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The Shield release looks amazing. WWE truly went all-out for that release. I love it. Might try and pick it up.

I can't believe they booked a house show tonight. fpalm How stupid is this company? You have a hard time filling three hours as it is with your FULL roster and now you want to do it with a half roster? fpalm


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

The booking to this raw in the first half has been really well done.

Just after Russo criticizes no character develeopment they do that promo with Ryback. I'm not saying it was great some of it seemed lame like the secret what is he a forty year old woman? But it still showed some of his personality I guess which shoud help engage the crowd with his character and he had them all in his hand at the end so mission accomplished.

Great opening segment with edge and Christian lesnar and Cena. Wow though the hate for Cena has to really be worrysome you would think it's not over half the crowd hating him it's nearly EVERYONE.

Good storyline development with the Naomi thing developing a great tag title match and switch. *** 1/4 for that match.

ZIGGLER and Rusev had a nice thing going they put over how both guys had been dominant and they keep both guys looking strong with that finish even if it came too quick and robbed of us another good Ziggler match which never happened as a result. * 3/4

Divas bellas thing kept short is always nice.

Glad Cesaro and bad news got some time to have a match nice work by Cesaro as always I liked the match. ** 1/4

Shame the crowd is dead for Swagger and Harper they had a good match on main event last week that was over *** and this one has been lackluster.

Still got probably the likes of Wyatt Ambrose, cutting edge peep show, maybe something else with Cena or lesnar ud think Daniel Bryan return and reigns vs Rollins and more.

Are people so sure that reigns Ambrose and Ziggler are the only three rumble candidates?

How do we know a wildcard won't be thrown and someone like sting, undertaker, Bray wyatt, Chris Jericho or a surprise return from Daniel Bryan won't happen? It's not likely but ruling some of those out I think shouldn't be done.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Well, not everything was a homerun tonight: but I thought Reigns/Rusev was a pretty good match, they attempted some character development for Ryback, while it turned out horrid, they gave Cesaro some promo practice, a decent tag match, a fun opening, Show was great on commentary, some attempt to garner sympathy for Reigns as well with the interview shows and Bryan to go. Is this a five star raw? no, but I'd call this Raw solid and I'll say it is nice to have some progress after what we have been subjected to recently.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

OMFG Bryan makes the announcement ALL OF US WANTED TO HEAR!!!

It's time to get interested in the product again!


----------



## looper007 (Dec 20, 2014)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> OMFG Bryan makes the announcement ALL OF US WANTED TO HEAR!!!
> 
> It's time to get interested in the product again!


That Bryan and Brock match must happen at WM :mark:
Let Rollin's cash in for the Title at Royal Rumble on Brock. Then Brock Screw Bryan out of the Royal Rumble match at the end. You got the feud build up.


----------



## Phaedra (Aug 15, 2014)

That segment needed Orton, but we had enough excitement for one night, seems like we may get it next week interrupting the celebration. Also, thought Brock was going to F5 the future. 
Also there may be a way to have a conclusive end to the wyatt feud if the Authority sees to it. Daniel Bryan will be put in at number one in the rumble, Reigns will get more beatings 

the authority being in power gives the faces excuses for defeats.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

As bad as Raw has been for a few months, every week or second week we usually get at least ONE great match, and tonight we didn't get very many but this was by far the most entertaining Raw I've seen since the Summer all around.

They did a nice job with every single thing they had.

They didn't even capitalize on Lesnar that much but I liked how they kept his mystique as what they said they would, as a special attraction.

Very good show, great tag match.

A lot happened on this show, for a quick squash I wish the Ascension would of been a bit more "Impressive" but I wont jump the gun on them yet, they weren't even given two minutes.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Loved Raw tonight, best episode since the show after the RTWM. 

Opening segment was great. Ziggler/Rusev was a really good match and the Ryback save got a big reaction. Ryback's promo was gold and seg-wayed nice into his feud with Rusev. Tag Title match was good, Mizdow very over and the crowd died after this match. It was too soon to take the titles off Miz and Mizdow, but I guess they want to strike while the iron is hot with Mizdow's full face turn. Cesaro promo was terrible but BNB returned and showed him how it's done. They have a decent match that the crowd is totally dead for. Swagger/Harper was the same, decent match but crowd was still barely reacting. 

Rollins/Reigns was bad. Big Show's commentary was great and there was that nice powerbomb spot by Reigns, but the match just never got out of first gear and by the time it started looking like it was going to, we get the DQ ending. Their September match was much better. Ascension debut was awful. Don't know why they'd feed Mizdow to them unless they were trying to make it clear they're heels, and to further Mizdow/Miz along. I suppose it makes sense if that's where they're going, but the match was all them and it was terrible. Even worse than the Rollins/Reigns match. 

Last segment was great... except for The Authority actually getting brought back. It was kind of like a "Hey, we gave you an awesome show this week but now it's back to business as usual."  Now that The Authority is pretty much guaranteed to be on Raw next week and take up half an hour, it's killed any interest I had in next week's show due to how great this week's was. Ambrose vs. Wyatt isn't that interesting to me either since I'm not a fan of Ambulance matches and we've seen a number of Ambrose/Wyatt matches in the last couple of weeks already.

Oh, and last but not least, Bryan's promo was amazing. He did an excellent job baiting and reeling everyone in to thinking he was retiring, and then turned it very well into a positive announcement and now that he's in the Rumble, I have a little bit of hope Reigns won't win.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

FU-CKING-HELL. Dat Rollins. kada


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Orton needed to interrupt that segment SO BAD. It dragged on forever, but oh well, with one sentence the Authority is back. Ascension debut was super underwhelming. I can't help but laugh at those guys, I'm sorry.

The Royal Rumble match has all of a sudden became unpredictable again. Reigns? Bryan? Orton?


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *Orton needed to interrupt that segment SO BAD. It dragged on forever, but oh well*, with one sentence the Authority is back. Ascension debut was super underwhelming. I can't help but laugh at those guys, I'm sorry.
> 
> The Royal Rumble match has all of a sudden became unpredictable again. Reigns? Bryan? Orton?



He did? I think since now that Daniel Bryan wont be a surprise, maybe he can be saved a surprise entrant. Just my opinion anyway.

That Main Event segment while it dragged a good 45 seconds I'd say at the most with his "COME ON JOHN" was likely meant to build suspense and it did.

I looked at the crowd and everyone standing with a smile on there face says the segment did its job and engaged the crowd.

I was interested in what happened, I'm sure you maybe were too...so I wouldn't be over-critical about the ending.

I'm also not going to be one of those guys who shits on the Authority being back because it's not like the WWE made the Raw's they were gone great or anything and lets just see how it all plays out. Heading into Wrestlemania with whatever payoff their heading for you figure you needed to have them back anyway and it was a good way to end the year off in a memorable way with a bang having the heels celebrating at the top of the ramp so at Wrestlemania the babyfaces will then be the ones celebrating to pyro and cheers.

That's story-telling, or like McMahon says to Foley in "Beyond the Mat" after he's been busted up in front of his family...that's "Show Business..."


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Orton needed to interrupt that segment SO BAD. It dragged on forever, but oh well, with one sentence the Authority is back.


Yeah, Orton coming out would've topped the show off extremely well. The issue with The Authority is it'll be the same shit we've seen the past year and a half, and it got old a year ago. Raw was sucking with them, Raw was sucking without them, and whether they came back or not wouldn't make a difference on how next week's Raw turned out either. 

I'm sure next week is going to be a very Authority-centered show since they're now back, so as I said my interest in next week's show is down. Of course I'm still going to watch and maybe they'll surprise me, but I'm much less excited than I would've been had we gotten an Orton return to end the show.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well Orton has already appeared on house shows, so he wouldn't be much of a surprise if he was in the Rumble. I just keep waiting and waiting to see how they're gonna write him back on TV and it doesn't happen. It would've been perfect if Cena said yes to bringing back the authority, Rollins attacked him and Orton's music hit as he made the save. Really would've put the icing on the cake. It's no big deal though. BRYAN IS BACK!

Rollins is great on the mic though.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

Finally, got around to watching this. Only 39 minutes long though. It goes over what Dave had been up to since leaving WWE from injuries and not being a fan of the PG crap.

From getting professionally trained to achieve his dream of being in an MMA fight (which he made no money from), to joining a classic Impala club (his gets more attention from people walking down the street than than any of the Euro cars he owns), to getting into Hollywood as his new career, he got emotional while talking about Guardians Of The Galaxy because he went through so much to get the role of Drax to finally get his big break in Hollywood.

Batista wanted to be a company man and also wanted to treat the fans better than The Rock: Take turns making a movie and wrestling, but working a lot more dates including house shows to show his passion and one-up The Great One.

In the end though, Batista forgets that professional wrestling is a young man's game and after being gone for 4 years, the audience moved on without him. Its a nice, little documentary about Batista's comeback story, but the end is a buzzkill with the fans turning on him at The 2014 Royal Rumble. It was not the hero's welcome he was expecting.

His surprise return was ruined by the Internet, his gear wasn't ready and had to be fixed at the last minute so he didn't get to warm up, a lot of fans didn't want him to be in the main event of Wrestlemania or wrestle Randy Orton again. Him coming back was one giant botch and it sucks to see his feelings get hurt. The program ends with him unsure of coming back. 

- Vic


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> 2. The Regal vs Finlay match at Uncensored 1996. Show them that being whores for cheap pops and nonsensical high spots are not required to have an all time great match. Show them that sound fundamental wrestling and good snug work is timeless, and that the crowd should never dictate what type of match or story you are going to tell, you dictate to the crowd your own story and work on immersing them in it.


I love your write-up, but this might be the one part of it that I kinda want to contest. There is a lesson to take from Regal/Finlay, but I disagree with the lesson you took from it. That crowd did not react at all to Regal/Finlay at all. It's not entirely the fault of the performers here because that crowd only reacted to two individuals that night (Eddie and Konnan), but I don't think either Finlay or Regal put any effort into engaging the crowd into their match. The lesson to take from this relates more to your half-sentence about "fundamental wrestling and snug work". What Regal and Finlay succeeded in doing that night was showing how you can construct an incredible match using the simplest of maneuvers in fists and strikes. A brawl in the realm of WWE seems to have always consisted of constant punching to the outside, and the "brawling" itself felt more like a filler segment until the weapons come in. That clearly is not the best way to handle a brawl most of the time. Wrestlers don't even need to work stiff/snug in order to capture the beauty of Regal/Finlay Uncensored, but they should try to capture the feeling of two guys doing anything they could with their fists and feet to hurt each other. And that does not mean doing an unnecessary spot or using weapons.

Speaking of crowds, I just finished watching RAW. Excellent episode where literally every segment served a purpose, but holy crap that crowd was awful. I recall them making noise only a few times that show. The dead reactions for everyone in the opening segment was inexcusable. Leave it to :bryan2 to take control of that crowd and getting them hyped. Royal Rumble has my interest for now. Really enjoyed Ziggler/Rusev, Harper/Swagger, Rollins/Reigns, Cesaro/Barrett, and especially Usos/Mizes tonight. Not hyped for Orton's return because of the logjam at the babyface level, but it's nice to see a full roster come together again.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bad News Barrett is back?

NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!

Daniel Bryan is back and in the RR?

YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!

The Authority are back after only a month?

NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!

Miz and Sandow are no longer tag champs?

YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!

Uso's are tag champs instead?

NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!

Segment with Rollins threatening to break Edge's neck was great, but fuck, couldn't we have gone a little longer without the Authority? Was half expecting maybe a Sting appearance or something, coming down from the rafters and Scorpion Death Dropping Rollins from behind or something. Oh well. Bryan is back and gonna be in the RR so I'm happy as Larry. Assuming Larry is a mildly happy guy at best. Too much stuff that I didn't like on the show for me to be any happier than that .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Got a match request for zep. On either the November 7 or 14 1992 edition of WCW Saturday Night, there was a first round King of Cable tournament match between Sting and Pillman. Do you by any chance have this rather odd choice of a match in your archives? Thanks in advance.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Got a match request for zep. On either the November 7 or 14 1992 edition of WCW Saturday Night, there was a first round King of Cable tournament match between Sting and Pillman. Do you by any chance have this rather odd choice of a match in your archives? Thanks in advance.


Afraid not mate, i did wonder if they ever had a match. Couldn't see it either on this list: http://kandd.shootangle.com/wcwsn92.html

Maybe it happened before they officially changed to 'Saturday Night'.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

http://www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x2pzno?syndication=112544&related=0 this the match?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

God bless Cal. Cal bless Cal. Cal screwed Cal :side:


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

I was there and the crowd was far from awful. We were extremely fucking loud for anything that wasn't pure filler.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Does anybody really think Sting is coming down from the rafters after Owen Hart?

I'm not even sure if he ever did after Owen Hart in WCW?

I just know the WWE hasn't risked that sort of thing since even if it has gone well a million times and "would be fine"....

You'd figure if he was going to come from the rafters he'd of done it in his debut, or once maybe at Wrestlemania but I doubt he will.

Glad to see others on the same page as I was for Raw.



Speaking of Stinger watched a lot of Disc 1 thus far.

A lot of matches early on in the ** - *** range. 


The Rotunda match is ** 3/4, Simmons is a good bout too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cal.

Bryan is BACK :mark: Hope he is ok and healthy enough. Unsure how the Rumble will shape up now though TBH.

No way Sting is coming down from the rafters, not after the Owen incident, and also not at his age TBH.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Somewhat of an obvious question, but now that the year is over, how would you guys rank the PPVs? Mine:

1. *Summerslam* - Just an all out great card from top to bottom. Most people I know will have Wrestlemania here in the top spot, but I just loved the flow of this show. The entire card was watchable and served a purpose while the main event served as one of the most lopsided victories we'd ever seen and Rusev/Swagger is still one of the most underrated matches of the year. Orton/Reigns shattered my expectations and Rollins/Ambrose was fun as shit.

2. *Wrestlemania XXX *- The obvious one here. We all know what happened on this show so I don't have to say much.

3. *Elimination Chamber *- This is where PPV quality takes a major dip. You start getting into the shows where there's a few good-to-great matches and everything in between is skippable. EC was the best of the bunch. Arguably the MOTY in Wyatts/Shield, a really good Chamber match somewhat marred by a crappy ending, and a forgotten opener between Big E & Swagger that was way better than it sounds on paper. Unfortunately, Batista/Del Rio and pretty much everything else on the card was bad. 

4. *Extreme Rules *- This show had nearly the exact same formula as EC. A good opener (fun enough for me at least), a fantastic tag match in the middle (will probably still end up in my top 5 for the year), and a great main event. Bryan/Kane really took me by surprise. Once again, a damn fun match with some cool shit throughout. Unfortunately, that god awful Cage match had to take place here.

5. *Night of Champions *- Really not that great of a show as a whole, but enough good stuff on it to put it on here at the 5 spot in a super weak year for PPV. A solid opener for the tag belts, AWESOME U.S. Title rematch between Sheamus & Cesaro (their Payback match is still better though), and a main event I had a lot of fun with down the stretch.

That's all I'm doing because everything else from the year had about 1-2 great matches and everything else usually sucked. _Royal Rumble_ had a whopping 4 matches on it (one of which was Bryan/Wyatt thank god). _Payback_ had a really fun first half but that double main event was not for me. _Money in the Bank_ had SO much promise with the sweet tag title match and the ridiculously awesome briefcase ladder match, but the last half of show fell flat. That would probably be my #6 because that briefcase ladder match was so damn exciting. _Battleground_ was probably the worst PPV of the year. It wasn't awful or anything, just nothing that great aside from the opener. _Hell in a Cell_ had a great opener, but then you should just stop watching. I'm still pissed about Wyatt. :lol _Survivor Series_ had an epic main event but NOTHING else really worth your time. I think Wyatt & Ambrose was going along nicely, but then it went to shit. _TLC _had a somewhat enjoyable first half, but once again, the last half sucked balls.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well I guess coming down from the rafters in WWE probably wouldn't happen now, but Sting did indeed do it numerous times in WCW after Owen had passed away.

RR or WM is probably my pick for PPV of the year. 

RR - Bryan/Wyatt was awesome, Lesnar/Show was about as good as it could have been given the fact Big Show was injured (the WMD to Lesnar was :mark: ), and despite who won, the RR match was great too imo.

WM - Bryan/HHH was awesome, Undertaker/Lesnar was, well I gave it a high rating but I wouldn't throw out an "awesome" at it, Bray/Cena was great, and I had fun with the Shield tag because it was so short and a squash for the young guys, and the battle royal was decent too.


----------



## looper007 (Dec 20, 2014)

#ROOT said:


> WM - Bryan/HHH was awesome, Undertaker/Lesnar was, well I gave it a high rating but I wouldn't throw out an "awesome" at it, Bray/Cena was great, and I had fun with the Shield tag because it was so short and a squash for the young guys, and the battle royal was decent too.


What about the triple threat which I thought was very good and one of the matches of the year.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Honestly didn't care much for the triple threat main event.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

2014 has not been the best of years but looking back at it, it has been historic, shocking and it definitely had some memorable moments. It's the year Daniel Bryan, one of the indy wrestlers, main evented Wrestlemania and won the top prize. It was almost as emotional as Chris Benoit/Eddie Guerrero closing Wrestlemania a decade earlier IMO. I still remember the next night on RAW where the crowd chant "you deserve it!" while Bryan is in the ring. He was speechless, was living the dream. So glad he didn't announce his retirement yesterday. Rock/Hogan/Austin being in the same ring at once was also a special moment. It was just awesome to see three of the biggest stars in pro-wrestling history drinking beer at Wrestlemania 30. There was some shocking moments like the streak finally ending. Bad or good, it was definitely a major headliner in wrestling news. I know Brock hasn't been handled very well since then but looking at the moment alone, it was definitely unpredictable and shocking. Giving it to Brock isn't the worst decision as he did squash Cena a few months later which was unique. Brock is a legit fighter and a top star so it wasn't an awful decision for him to break the streak but it would have been nice to see Taker retire unbeaten at Wrestlemania. Another shocking headline was Punk leaving and criticizing the company after he left. Made huge headlines.

There were nice historic moments like Ultimate Warrior finally returning to RAW and getting inducted into the Hall of Fame deservedly. It was nice to see one of the biggest names in pro-wrestling to return after so many years out. I think almost 20 years, not too sure. I'm still shocked at his passing. His final 3 days of his life were well documented as well. Saturday night he was in the HOF ceremony, Sunday he was at Wrestlemania and on RAW, he cut that emotional but eerie promo. I think it was on Tuesday he was died. I feel sorry for his wife and kids. Sting finally debuting in the WWE was a legendary moment and once again, it was one of those 'I'll believe till I see it' moments. So many years of speculation, he finally stepped foot inside a WWE ring. 

Then you have the Network and NXT. Network isn't doing great business so far but it is still a good feature to have. I haven't subscribed to it but I've heard more good reviews than bad so that's another positive thing to look forward to the future I guess. Speaking off the future, NXT definitely gave us a glimpse of the future. Kevin Owens (or Steen), Sami Zayn, Finn Balor, Neville, Itami and etc. will be great additions to the main roster and the NXT PPVs this year have been great. 2014 for all it's problems, definitely wasn't a poor year IMO. It was a significant roller coaster year when you look back at it. It's a shame what they have done to the Wyatt Family, Ambrose (to an extend), Swagger and Cesaro but it's a common mistake in the WWE. 

That was long lol. Probably my longest post in this forum.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Rewatched the Austin&Rock vs nWo handicap match from RAW. Wow, I really don't know why I remember it being better. It was short, about 9 minutes, but it was also bad, they only traded punches the whole bout, and Austin&Rock never looked like two guys that could beat the nWo here. Poor booking, really.

**** from me for it


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I love your write-up, but this might be the one part of it that I kinda want to contest. There is a lesson to take from Regal/Finlay, but I disagree with the lesson you took from it. That crowd did not react at all to Regal/Finlay at all. It's not entirely the fault of the performers here because that crowd only reacted to two individuals that night (Eddie and Konnan), but I don't think either Finlay or Regal put any effort into engaging the crowd into their match. The lesson to take from this relates more to your half-sentence about "fundamental wrestling and snug work". What Regal and Finlay succeeded in doing that night was showing how you can construct an incredible match using the simplest of maneuvers in fists and strikes. A brawl in the realm of WWE seems to have always consisted of constant punching to the outside, and the "brawling" itself felt more like a filler segment until the weapons come in. That clearly is not the best way to handle a brawl most of the time. Wrestlers don't even need to work stiff/snug in order to capture the beauty of Regal/Finlay Uncensored, but they should try to capture the feeling of two guys doing anything they could with their fists and feet to hurt each other. And that does not mean doing an unnecessary spot or using weapons.
> 
> Speaking of crowds, I just finished watching RAW. Excellent episode where literally every segment served a purpose, but holy crap that crowd was awful. I recall them making noise only a few times that show. The dead reactions for everyone in the opening segment was inexcusable. Leave it to :bryan2 to take control of that crowd and getting them hyped. Royal Rumble has my interest for now. Really enjoyed Ziggler/Rusev, Harper/Swagger, Rollins/Reigns, Cesaro/Barrett, and especially Usos/Mizes tonight. Not hyped for Orton's return because of the logjam at the babyface level, but it's nice to see a full roster come together again.



My point was, Regal and Finlay didn't hear the shotty crowd reaction and say "fuck it let's just do some nonsensical high spots for a cheap pop" nor did they change what the story of their match was about. They stuck with it, and did their damnedest to get that crowd to cheer. It was 100% not their fault, the crowd was so lame for every single match. You take that match and have it in Chicago and people would be going crazy. That intensity they had, that's money. That's timeless. Every fan except those inbred half wits in attendance that night can see the beauty in what they were doing. They didn't compromise what the purpose and story of the match was just for a pop. You are not playing just to the crowd in the building like in the 1970s, you are performing for the millions watching at home. If Finlay and Regal had heard that reaction and changed their match to nonsense, we would be deprived of getting to watch one of the greatest matches ever whenever we want, all because those two didn't have the discipline to realize they can't force the crowd to cheer. Finlay had just debuted and was not over, and Regal was a heel. Who the hell was the crowd supposed to cheer? 

That's why I said all the talent should watch that match. Remember to wrestle smart, use your head and think things through when you do them so you can create something that's timeless, not some fluffy garbage that people will forget as soon as they leave the building. It's one of my beefs with the current product, the selling just sucks for the most part because guys are racing around trying to get to the next high spot so they can get a crowd pop or a "this is awesome!" Chant by spamming false finishes. Fuck right off with that shit, that's not pro wrestling. That's Davey Richards and Michael Elgin playing wrestler. That's garbage. Real pro wrestling should be performance fucking art, where selling is THE #1 priority and having things make sense and strive for the cartoony realism of pro graps is the name of the game. People don't really act like Sgt. slaughter when they get hurt, staggering around like a drunken sailor and taking wild swings at thin air, I get that, but it's understood everything in pro wrestling is cartoony because that's the fun of it.

Alright I'm done being a curmudgeon. I can't be unhappy, Bryan fucking Danielson is back, the real "BEST IN THE WORLD" is back to claim his proper throne and reign supreme. Just when Sami thought that spot was his for the taking, Bryan says nah nah boo boo I'm back bitches and I'm going to WRECK shit. Bryan vs Lesnar for the WWE title at WM 31 or fuck off :side:


P.s. How fucking funny would it be for Regal and Finlay to just for one match decide to wrestle like a coked up Kurt Angle? Seeing Finlay get power bombed through a table only to bouncer right back up and moonsault off the top of the cage onto Regal who sells the move for .5 seconds before locking in his 16th Regal stretch of the match, which Finlay reverses and then runs back to the top rope only to have Regal pop right up and belly to belly him from the top. Finlay then blades for no reason while Regal some how gets back up to the top rope, jumps off for a double axe handle but really it's just a reason for Finlay to hit him with a shillelagh while he's flying in the air for a 3 count. Whew, that's was exhausting to type. Probably none of you will find this funny but I just cracked myself up thinking of those two having that match.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Bryan/Brock has some real potential as a feud and if Bryan is healthy, I dont throw this around often but all time potential in the ring. Practically writes itself. The guy who never lost the belt vs the man who conquered the streak. A man who through tragedy carries on wrestling for his passion vs a man who seemingly doesnt give a damn about wrestling. The comeback kid vs the man probably leaving for UFC. Physically a true David vs Goliath. 

In the ring, as good as Bryan/Brock will probably be if Bryan can go near his normal levels, it would be so nice if JR could call that one. The chances would be near zero, especially with JR working with GFW, but that would be so nice. "Another german suplex to the recently operated on neck of Daniel Bryan. What a sick thud! This monster is trying to kill Daniel Bryan AND HE DOESN"T GIVE A DAMN!"

Now, will WWE risk Roman Reigns getting Batista'd in order to carry out their push and with the uncertainty of Bryan's durability and the potential for nuclear heat for a heel eliminating Bryan? Or will WWE give Bryan another run to let the unready Reigns develop another year and not risk him getting Batista'd? I dont know the answer to that but the picture just got a whole lot more interesting.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Did everyone see the video from what happened after RAW went off the air? Fuckin Orton returned way after everything happened! I don't understand. haha

I have legitimate concerns for Bryan's health if they have him go one-on-one with Lesnar. It may make me uncomfortable to watch. I mean, I know the company is careful and they'd only have him do it if they knew he'd be 150%, but damn that sounds scary. Lesnar threw Punk around like a midget and Bryan has gotta be at least 10-15 pounds lighter & 4 inches shorter.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Orton returned.........after raw went off air? :lol

So next week, he'll be back as normal, for those that couldn't watch the backstage thing. Jeez.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

THANKS FOR SPOILING IT FOR ME GUYS!!!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah it made no sense. Apparently Rollins & Big Show went back in the ring with J&J Security to attack Cena again and then Orton's music hit. He hit an RKO on everyone and Cena AA'd the Big Show. The video was posted on 'WWE Live' on Facebook. Why they didn't do this on air, I don't know.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hey, in legal terms, i was just the messenger.  :side:


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

I thought Night of Champions was great.

Elimination Chamber, Extreme Rules, Payback, Summerslam, Money in the Bank and Hell in a Cell were all pretty good.

Wrestlemania is always usually good this one was the show of this year but yeah I really liked Night of Champions.

There wasn't really that many BAD PPV's this year, and that's an extremely rare thing to have.

The television events suffered but the WWE really brought it when it came to the PPV events.

And also on television as posted in this thread there was at least (including NXT) 20-30 really good-great matches despite the booking or "overall" feeling of the shows being "bad."


I think part of this was the fact that Raw's are three hours, countless video packages, commercials interupting matches, meaningless segments, comedy segments gone bad, poor booking decisions really overshadowed the good matches that were on most of the shows this year.

Another part of "2014 being the OMG WORST YEAR SINCE 1995" thing is I think there was a lot of expectations after Wrestlemania when Daniel Bryan won the gold and the Shield and Wyatt's had "EMERGED."

Wrestling fans sort of expected after Mania for everything to start getting WAY better, REALLY QUICK....then Bryan got hurt, Cena won the title at Money in the Bank, Lesnar's been Champion since Summerslam and barely shows, Reigns gets hurt, Ambrose is booked bad, hardly any character development etc...




*I'm confident if they book more shows in 2015 like they did the last one in 2014, that 2015 will be a better year then 2014 because...*




1) The Stars are back. The Injury bug hit the WWE with a lot of faces being taken out and now they are coming back in time for the new year and the road to Wrestlemania.

2) CM Punk blues. Fans will be over or will be MORE over Punk not being around.

3) Stars now established. I'll elaborate below.

4) Talent level high.

5) Stronger title divisions.

6) I have a feeling 2015 something different may happen with Cena. Not that he'll go HEEL but I'm not ruling it out, there's only so many times he can do this, I think something may happen, I just got a weird/hopeful feeling....

7) Not as much advertisement for the Network. They wont make the WHOLE YEAR about it...



-The WWE has done a good job at making the tag team division look like it's actually there.

-The US Title has gained prestige by putting it on an undefeated Heel who we can only hope has a strong reign.

-The IC Title is looking damn fine on Ziggler who also had regained some lost credibility.

-The Wyatt's and Shield haven't been booked perfectly but there's no doubt with them headling PPV's and Raw's that all these guys have been established more now so that we don't have to watch them grow, we can just have them "THERE" rather then putting them over.

-The Streak being broken by a Champion who is looked at as a special attraction, feels like the old days.

-The Heel turn by Seth Rollins was shocking.

-Sting debut's.


A lot of big things have happened but I am saying 2015 should be a better year because I believe most guys will stay healthy and the stars have now been almost fully established. Now if booked correctly in solid programs it could make for an entertaining year. It's just extremely crucial that expectations don't get sky high for 2015 and if they just slowly improve then that's good enough for me.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Wrestlemania 31 could be a GOAT PPV if they get it right. Lesnar, Bryan, Cena, Orton, HHH, Sting, Wyatt, Ambrose, Rollins, Rusev, Reigns, Ziggler, maybe Undertaker too. I really hope they can produce a card that not only gives them star power headlining like Sting and Triple H, but that can give 'Wrestlemania' moments to the new guys like Ambrose, Rollins, Rusev etc

My perfect card would be...

Lesnar vs Bryan for the title with Bryan winning.

Triple H vs Sting to wrap up the authority storyline.

John Cena vs Rusev for the US title with Rusev going over (I know it sounds silly for Cena to go for the secondary championship but given the storyline it would make sense, and I wouldn't have him win it.)

Seth Rollins vs Randy Orton to wrap up there storyline.

Undertaker vs Bray Wyatt with Bray going over and retiring Taker if there serious about committing to the Wyatt character.

Roman Reigns vs Dean Ambrose I think could work, plenty of back story and potential heel turns to make it interesting.

Maybe add a MITB ladder match or another battle royal and thats a pretty decent card if you ask me.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

FUCKIN DANIEL BRYAN'S BACK :mark: FUCKIN BARRETT'S BACK :mark:
It seems that the main show may still have some life into it, after all.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Somewhat of an obvious question, but now that the year is over, how would you guys rank the PPVs?


1 - WrestleMania 30: The show of FUCKIN DANIEL BRYAN. HHH/Bryan stands only second to Bret/Owen as the GOAT Mania opener (and one of the GOAT openers period), and Orton/Bryan/Batista, while no HHH/HBK/Benoit, is still among the greatest Mania ME's in its own right and the perfect example of overbooking. Besides that? Another great match in Cena/Wyatt, arguably the best Battle Royal ever (disappointing ending in today's view though ), The Shield being the fucking Shield, a fun Divas clusterfuck and THE MOST SHOCKING MOMENT I'VE EVER SEEN IN WRESTLING. Not just a frontrunner for most memorable WM of all time, but most memorable wrestling show of all time overall.

2 - NXT Takeover R-Evolution: Everything was handled perfectly here. Great debut for Owens, DAT Balor entrance, Ascension/Team HYPE was pretty good, Charlotte/Sasha was killer, and Neville/Zayn is the 3rd best MOTY of the company for me. If it wasn't for the Tag Title match itself being a bit underwhelming, this'd be nº1.

3 - NXT Arrival: Put this high by its three big matches - Cesaro/Zayn aka the MOTY, Paige/Emma which was a surprise for me, and Dallas/Neville which is among the most underrated MOTY.

4 - NXT Takeover Fatal 4-Way: A fun undercard where everything served a purpose - good Tag, good Corbin debut, good Itami debut -, the women's MOTY (Charlotte/Bayley) and another winner ME in the 4-Way.

5 - NXT Takeover: It had a rough start w/the first two matches, but the triple ME - the excellent Zayn/Breeze, the most overrated MOTY but still good Nattie/Charlotte and the really good Neville/Kidd - nailed it.

6 - SummerSlam: Arguably the most consistent show of the year. Everything was, at the very least, perfectly watchable, and we had some epic gems like Swagger/Rusev, Ambrose/Rollins and the best squash ever aka Cena/Lesnar.

7 - Elimination Chamber: From here on, the shows stop being "good". That being said, this one comes close - two ****+ matches in the near perfect Shield/Wyatts and the Chamber, plus a pretty ok opener in Big E/Swagger. The rest though... eww. Batista/ADR is good if you like perverse entertainment, though.

8 - Survivor Series: A very similar outline to EC - an epic one (Team Cena/Team Authority), a great one (Ambrose/Wyatt), and an okay one (4-way). Added bonus: AJ Lee and Brie Bella kiss. Fuck the rest.

9 - Extreme Rules: Same as EC and SVS, with an epic one (Shield/Evolution), a great one (Bryan/Kane) and an okay... pair (opener and Big E/Barrett). Fuck the rest - especially the Cage match.

10 - Royal Rumble: Bryan/Wyatt was epic. The Rumble was great, you won't convince me otherwise (1st half at least - and most people hate it because of the ending, but knowing what WM turned out, we can all agree that ending doesn't have half of its original negative power anymore). Aaand... fuck the rest - especially Orton/Cena.

11 - Night Of Champions: Ambrose returning was :mark:, Sheamus/Cesaro and Cena/Lesnar were both great, and the opener was pretty good too. Then what else... I guess Orton/Jericho was okay. To hell with the rest. Henry/Rusev... what a dissapointment.

12 - Hell In A Cell: Great opener, good Show/Rusev, very good but still EPIC disappointment of a Main Event... Tag Titles was good I guess... what else was even on the show worth caring about? Oh yeah, Sandow. He was awesome.

13 - Money In The Bank: Take Usos/Wyatts, take the MITB match, kill everything else with fire.

14 - Battleground: Doesn't actually make my worst of the year spot simply because it was slightly more consistent than either of the ones worse than it, and because I liked Usos/Wyatts more than anything in either Payback or TLC quite honestly.

15 - Payback: Sheamus/Cesaro was great, and the first half of the show in general was fun. That being said, the overall quality definitely lacked. And the double Main Event was not for my style. Cena/Wyatt LMS is probably the most polarizing MOTY - and I'm one of those against it, quite frankly.

16 - TLC: Ziggler/Harper and Ambrose/Wyatt aside, this sucked fucking balls. Period. Cena/Rollins was almost as bad as Cena/Wyatt Cage.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I just got a look at the match listing for that Shield DVD. I'm definitely going to buy it (Y)

Gotta give respect to one of the GOAT factions in wrestling.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yup, even in 2014 I still believe in The Shield.

Shame that the one member of it (who actually was pretty awesome WHEN in the Shield) is the one that doesn't quite stand out on his own. Ugh.

Speaking of which, this video here confirms that even the action figure version of Bryan (and Bret too but that's another thing) is a better wrestler than Reigns:






:banderas. If we were giving ratings to that, I'd give it around ***1/2 at least.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Damn dude, all 4 NXT specials over Summerslam? That's a shock. Had I actually inserted the NXT shows into my list (I've still yet to see the latest two), Takeover would probably be in the 5 spot behind Extreme Rules and in front of NOC. Charlotte/Natalya is ridiculously overrated. Arrival was good but the main event was nothing special imo. Paige/Emma however was > the last NXT women's match mentioned.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

Srdjan99 said:


> Rewatched the Austin&Rock vs nWo handicap match from RAW. Wow, I really don't know why I remember it being better. It was short, about 9 minutes, but it was also bad, they only traded punches the whole bout, and Austin&Rock never looked like two guys that could beat the nWo here. Poor booking, really.
> 
> **** from me for it


To be fair what do you expect from Hall, Nash, and Hogan at that point? Rock and Austin probably could have given more, but could those three?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

PPVs this year have been a mixed bag. I enjoyed Royal Rumble, Chamber, Wrestlemania and SummerSlam but the rest have either sucked or been up and down. Night of Champions had three matches I really liked, Payback had one decent match, MITB and Battleground were highly forgettable and Extreme Rules had one classic and a solid match with everything else forgettable. Then the last three PPVs flat out sucked from what I watched out of them.

*Unforgiven 1999:*
New Age Outlaws vs Edge & Christian - ★★½
X-Pac vs Chris Jericho - ★¾
Six Pack Challenge - ★★★

Looking forward to No Mercy. Although I've only heard bad things about Survivor Series.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Royal Rumble 2005

*Edge vs. Shawn Michaels - *** 1/2

*Casket Match
*The Undertaker vs. Heidenreich - ** 3/4

*WWE Championship
*JBL (c) vs. Kurt Angle vs. Big Show - *** 1/4

*World Heavyweight Championship
*Triple H (c) vs. Randy Orton - *** 3/4

The Royal Rumble Match - ****


- Edge/HBK was a great opener. Very well worked match with some great nearfalls and a screwy ending that started HBK's trend of getting fucked over on the night.

- Why did I enjoy that casket match? Are my standards that low now? :lol That was actually fun. Some good back and forth action, a couple close calls near the end, and the Kane interference was fun. Worked for me.

- WWE Title 3-way was fun as shit. I feel like that's all I say these days, but hey, I think stuff is fun.  Big Show vs. the world is ALWAYS the way to go in 3-way matches and this one worked to perfection. Non-stop action and some big spots to boot. Some people may have thought the ending stunk, but I thought it was genius. Gave me a good chuckle and sure as hell kept the heat on JBL.

- Orton vs. HHH was seriously great imo. It's amazing to see the work these two put forth in this one and compare it to all the other stinkers they've had together. The pacing seemed to switch back and forth throughout the match and I thought it worked wonderfully. Yes, Orton did somewhat abandon the leg selling down the stretch, but I didn't find it to be too distracting. His initial selling of the leg was good and Hunter's work in this one was fantastic. It reminded me of the match with Bryan, where every move has a little bit more _umph _in it (if you can read that the right way). The concussion angle at the end totally came out of left field but Orton played it up to perfection and it wasn't too overbooked. Thought it was just right. The stomp to the head, the ref bump, and the vicious clothesline played right into HHH's character. Good stuff here.

- I feel kinda dirty giving the Rumble such a high rating because I almost NEVER do that, but by god this was fun as hell! See, there I go with that word again. :lol There was just so much to see here. You had Daniel Puder getting destroyed, Benoit & Eddie constantly going from teaming up to trying to eliminate each other, the whole RAW vs. Smackdown thing, the early dismissal of Hassan, the beginning of the Angle/Michaels feud, the emergence of Batista becoming one of the top stars in the company, and so so much more. Edge, Benoit, Mysterio, Shelton, etc. all put up great performances. HUGE props to Cena & Batista for somehow pulling off the double elimination perfectly. This match was just pure entertainment from bell to bell. One of my favorites. What a show!

** Side note: The crowd on this show was absolutely fantastic all night long**​


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Damn dude, all 4 NXT specials over Summerslam? That's a shock. Had I actually inserted the NXT shows into my list (I've still yet to see the latest two), Takeover would probably be in the 5 spot behind Extreme Rules and in front of NOC. Charlotte/Natalya is ridiculously overrated. Arrival was good but the main event was nothing special imo. Paige/Emma however was > the last NXT women's match mentioned.


Yup. Felt more realized by all of those than I did SummerSlam - though it was really, really close between the 1st Takeover and SummerSlam. If just because SS had the extreme consistency in its side, against TO's rough start. Ultimately, it the combined strenght of TO's triple Main Event that gave it the win (although I don't think Nattie/Charlotte is anywhere near as good as it's made out to be). And all the others are just that damn good. You haven't seen Fatal 4-Way and R-Evolution? You're SERIOUSLY missing out, dude. Can't say anything about RE that hasn't been said already, and F4W is top to bottom all out fun w/an epic ME and the best WWE women's match since Trish/Mickie WM 22.

Btw, if by "last NXT women's match" you mean Charlotte/Sasha, then I seriously disagree when you say Paige/Emma was > to it. Paige/Emma was good, but the other one had Sasha pulling out the best WWE women's performance of the year (or tied w/Bayley from TO:F4W) and it was gripping and hard-fought to the point it came this damn close to beating Charlotte/Bayley in my books.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> Btw, if by "last NXT women's match" you mean Charlotte/Sasha, then I seriously disagree when you say Paige/Emma was > to it. Paige/Emma was good, but the other one had Sasha pulling out the best WWE women's performance of the year (or tied w/Bayley from TO:F4W) and it was gripping and hard-fought to the point it came this damn close to beating Charlotte/Bayley in my books.


Oh no no, I was talking about the Charlotte/Natalya match. I haven't seen the Bayley or Sasha ones yet. Soon though.

-----------------------------------------

Remember how WWE doubled booked themselves on RAW? Well it definitely looks like RAW got the better end it. Check out this awful card that was the house in Richmond that night:

1) *Roman Reigns* b. *Kane*
2) *Tyler Breeze*, *Hornswoggle* & *Titus O’Neil* b. *Los Matadores* & *El Torito*
3) *Sin Cara* b. *Justin Gabriel*
4) *The New Day* b. *Gold* & *Stardust*
5) WWE NXT Women’s Champion *Charlotte*, *Alicia Fox* & *Emma* b. *Cameron*, *Sasha Banks* & *Summer Rae*. *Santino Marella* appeared prior to this match.
6) *Curtis Axel* b. *Adam Rose*
7) *Dean Ambrose* b. *Bray Wyatt*


What the hell is match #2 ? :lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

An instant classic, it is :troll

And I agree that Paige/Emma > Nattie/Charlotte. Paige/Emma was somewhat resembling of a gritty fight and I quite enjoyed it, more than I thought I would. Nattie/Charlotte was the worst of the four NXT PPV Divas matches to me. It started off very, very good, kinda like a technical-style fight. But then... the Figure Four spot. UGH times Infinity. Ruined the match. The climax was still hot, tho.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Sting and Ron Simmons from 1990 on the Power Hour on Stinger's DVD is such a good 10 minute match.

The workrate was just unbelievable. 

Sometimes two guys with different styled clash together and put on a terrific match and this was.

Sting got the victory coming from behind and rolled up Ron but this was my favourite match so far on Disc 1.

Not going to rate it insanely high but still *** 1/2 ....

Love underrated un-heard of matches that don't have the classic elements but do all the right little things.

Simmons could really go.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Im really in the mood lately to get stuck into some Regal stuff. Saw this match was well pimped: Shinya Hashimoto vs Steven Regal (NJPW Battle Rush 04/16/95).

I need to finally burn off the comp i have TBH.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ya know, I've still not see the Regal/Hash matches. Regal was pimping one from 1996 that I don't think is on the Regal comp I have. One day I shall watch them. Or at least the one I have and try to find the other (fairly certain someone linked him to the match on Twitter lol). No idea when that'll be. I'm so down on wrestling right now it's insane. Maybe the RR event will jump start my passion for it again like it has done so many times in the past. <3 the RR.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

This one Cal: *Steven Regal vs. Shinya Hashimoto (NJ 9/21/96)*

Ill upload it if you want.

Continuing my WWF 2001 watching atm. Austin/HHH beating down the Hardy's once again,
about to attack Lita............then Taker/Kane turn up. Was a great moment i have to say,
just a couple of weeks until Backlash now i think.


----------



## Bushmaster (Sep 28, 2010)

Killing some time so watching a little Monday Night Wars on the Network. Mania 3 was talked about for a little bit. Makes me wanna watch Savage vs Steamboat because I've never watched it. Gonna see if I can on the Network, I should be able to :hmm: 

What do you guys think of it before I watch it.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Have fun with that it's the match ive seen the most due to how old it is, good it is and short it is.

Each time I watch it I grow to appreciate it more and more.

While some have been critics of the ending with George Steele or the fact that steamboat should of tried to kill savage for almost putting him out of wrestling by crushing his larynx. I don't see a problem with the match they went for.

Everybody is talking about it still 30 years later so they most of done something right.

Fair enough that Steamboat should have from a feud perspective been more ruthless but I felt it fit his nice guy I'm not gonna stoop to ur level kind of attitude to try and one up Savage by bringing what brought him to the dance and that was TO OUT-WRESTLE The Macho Man and take his Title ..which in kayfabe is EXACTLY what he did. He also does have a spot early in the match after some picture perfect offense lifting macho up high choking him out to show he was ruthless at the same time. But come on, Ricky Steamboat trying to end Randy Savage's career? Couldn't see that happening.

Savage as u expect goes to the throat and was doing everything he could as this is probably his best all around performance ever. Some say this match and other things he was doing at live events was the reason he was the one guy Vince felt confident enough in to hold the gold other then Hulk Hogan. In this match I loved his running knee in the outside sending Steamoat into the officials booth. The running lariat and chop blocks were nice as was all the knee drops. They made good on the environment around them.

When you watch it take into account that in early 1987 the wwf didn't put on matches as quick or exciting llike this.

This take place on the biggest stage and the two of them went out and put on a captivating clinic with awesome wrestling, 19 nearfalls and just a great sprint of a classic in fourteen and a half minutes.

Just watch reed vs koko on WM 3 before it to see the difference in pacing. If you are used to watching epic fast matches in the last 15 years you may not be blown away so it's important to just remember the time this happened. It was hugely influential to so many wrestlers who came after and if you keep all that in mind you'll see why many deem it five stars.

I think it's like the Shawn razor ladder match at wrestlremaina if you compare that to Jericho Benoit ladder Fron rumble 01 it doesent seem so amazing but just by itself not compared and just taken for what it is in the time it took place it stands out as golden.

I've done a huge write up about why the match is so great but you can just watch it for yourself. I've got it on my xperia phone and since its so short I usually just out it on if I'm bored waiting in the room for the dentist doctor whnever....always fun and classic.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brock said:


> This one Cal: *Steven Regal vs. Shinya Hashimoto (NJ 9/21/96)*
> 
> Ill upload it if you want.


Yesh please .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

That Regal/Hashimoto is awesome but their other match is so good it makes that one look like dogshit. Might be the best Regal match I've seen.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> Yesh please .


*Steven Regal vs Shinya Hashimoto (New Japan 09.21.1996)*

x2dst2e


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Loverly . Cheers fella. Once it's finished encoding I'll be downloading the fuck out of that .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Canceled my WWE Network subscription and just waiting until the deadline has hit and my subscription is officially over. Meanwhile, I got done with September 1999 and also watched the cage match from Rebellion between Rock and Triple H. Decent but not close to their best and some of it was recycled from the cage match before Fully Loaded, specifically the loser exiting the cage when the ref was down first and them brawling outside the cage. At least they didn't go full-retard and leave the cage with the ref seeing it (unlike Age in the Cage, lol).

Nice to be closing on the end now, 2000 should be a hell of a blast.

And speaking of uploading matches, I've grabbed a few that are on the Network from XWT and uploaded them to DM.



Spoiler: matches



x2dd3r7
x2dggjn
x2diaua
x2dqkhb


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Get ready for No Mercy 99. Loved that PPV as a kid. The ladder match is perfect. Also a fan of the main event. HHH practically carried Austin to a good match. At this point, HHH really did feel like the baddest man on the planet. Wait til you get to Armageddon. Ending to that PPV, oh man.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

That is the event where triple h really arrives as a main eventer and would be dynamite on ppv or tv from here to his injury in May of 01.

To be fair to Austin he really wrestles this match perhaps fully knowing its his last ppv match for a year and bumps pretty rough from memory. I really liked this match I felt it was better then survivor series 2000s match.

And as good as that match its not quite on the level of the tag team ladder that stole the show as mentioned and put four guys on the map as well as introduce the whole tag team ladder concept. That was perhaps the match of the year for the wwf

Chyna and jarrett have a surprisingly good match as does Val and Foley.

For 1999 its a pretty good ppv for sure.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

So I just got home from NYE and put on Mick Foley vs Randy Orton from Backlash 2004.

What a match.

Absolutely brutal. The only bit I didn't like was the silly Eric Bischoff segment in the middle of the match. 

****1/2 for me, I have so much respect for both men after that match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I remember looking up the Armageddon card and seeing Vince vs HHH going for nearly 30 minuets. What is the likelihood of a 30 minute Vince match working?

Haven't seen any of No Mercy before, so it should all be fresh.

Just rewatched HBK vs Masters from Unforgiven and it holds up pretty well. Holy fuck @ Shawn's balding head when he's in the full-nelson.

Funny to read the post above because I remember Foley vs Orton being the first match I watched one year ago as 2014 started. An absolute masterpiece and it's time I watched it again. It's gone past the 5 star mark for me.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Ah Backlash 04, another two brilliant match card PPV. There's many of these...but few as good as those two matches.

IC **** 1/2
WHC **** 3/4




Choke2Death said:


> I remember looking up the Armageddon card and seeing Vince vs HHH going for nearly 30 minuets. What is the likelihood of a 30 minute Vince match working?
> 
> Haven't seen any of No Mercy before, so it should all be fresh.
> 
> ...




Well like anything from 1999...the main event doesen't see the ring and they do a bunch of I'll drag you here and I'll drag you there kind of working on the outside. Plus a bunch of the final minutes are taken up by the DRAMA** of the whole Stephanie turn...that stat always raised my eyebrows too but then when I watched it again since it aired live I remembered why.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah, that's what I figured. WWF in the AE is much like WCW with all the run-ins and shenanigans surrounding the matches.

funnyfaces, can you by any chance resurrect your 1999 breakdown? Wanna look through the match list and see if I missed anything. I skip a lot of matches because I figure I can save a few minutes because most of them are unlikely to be any good due to the fact that you'll blink and there'll be interference and bells ringing already. Not many TV matches have stood out other than Rock vs Mankind (title change and ladder), Rock vs HHH (I Quit and Smackdown premier), Austin vs Taker (only for the title change) and... dunno anything else.

Finally finished Bret vs Taker from Royal Rumble. Needed to go through the whole thing in 3 separate sittings! Not even Bret vs Shawn was this tough to finish. And by the sounds of it, you can tell I don't care for the match at all.

Another thing, just how good is Benoit vs Jericho from Fall Brawl?

EDIT: Never mind, here's the 99 write-up: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/31207138-post8294.html

Don't understand the exclusion of HHH vs Rock from the first Smackdown, though. I really enjoyed that one. And obviously the two King of the Ring main events were good. Rock vs Taker was even better this time.

Why tf are my posts bold by themselves? I HATE IT!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't include anything under three stars for PPVs, while I set a "lower" standard for television. I think I would probably add a few more matches to that list looking back at it. Vince/HHH drags a lot, but there's a lot of funny and brutal shit going on. It's a unique type of AE brawl with a powerful ending. Did you catch those October Val Venis matches? The one with The Rock was so fun.


----------



## daulten780 (May 9, 2013)

Just watched Ziggler vs Del Rio at Payback 2013. Incredible storytelling, wish I could've seen it live


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Whilst watching WWF 2001, recently watched this little gem off SD:

*William Regal & Kurt Angle vs Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit (Smackdown 04.26.2001*
_(Dutchess Of Queensbury Rules)_

x2du9jx

And my Backlash ratings, as ive just finished the event:

*WWF Backlash 2001:*

*Six Man Tag Team match: The Dudley Boyz vs. X-Factor (X-Pac, Justin Credible and Albert)* **
*Hardcore Title: Rhyno vs. Raven* ***1/2
*Duchess of Queensbury Rules: William Regal (w/The Duchess of Queensbury) vs. Chris Jericho* **1/4
*30-Minute Ultimate Submission Match: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit* ****1/2
*Last Man Standing: The Big Show vs. Shane McMahon* **1/2
*European Title, Triple Threat: Matt Hardy vs. Christian vs. Eddy Guerrero* **
*WWF Heavyweight Title, Intercontinental Title & Tag Team Titles: Steve Austin & Triple H (w/Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley) vs. The Undertaker & Kane* ****1/4


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Someone was asking how good Fall Brawl Benoit-Jericho was. 

Just an excellent way to showcase Jericho and I'd say this was his first BIG time match in a major promotion if we exclude his match with the same guy (Benoit) In Japan the year before. I mean in WCW or WWE.

Benoit was a Horsemen and very credible and dictated the pace for a good ten to twelve of the 17 minutes in the match but much like Guerrero did when coming back against Benoit, Chris Jericho was flashy and got to show all of his impressive offense and signature moves we were seeing for the first time. Of course Benoit gets the win but Jericho looked better because of it.

It's a damn fine match and he even remembers to sell in the process of all his exciting come-back moves in the match. ***** for Fall Brawl 96.*



-------------------


Also...ABOVE... *Brock* thanks for posting that match, my god Benoit and Angle were on fucking fire in those first 5 months of 2001.

Lets look at Benoit in paticular.


Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho Ladder Royal Rumble **** 3/4
Chris Benoit vs Eddie Guerrero vs X-Pac vs Chris Jericho No Way Out ****
Chris Benoit vs Eddie Guerrero Raw March 2001 *** 1/2
Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle Wrestlemania X7 ******
Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle Backlash 30 Minute Submission Match ***** 1/2*
Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle Judgment Day 2/3 Falls Match **** 3/4*
Chris Benoit and Chris Jericho in Tag Team Turmoil Judgment Day 01 **** 1/2*
Chris Benoit vs Steve Austin Raw Calgary 5/28/01 **** 3/4*
Chris Benoit vs Steve Austin Edmonton SD! 5/31/01 ***** 3/4*
Chris Benoit vs Steve Austin vs Chris Jericho King of the Ring * *****

Chris Benoit and Chris Jericho vs Edge and Christian vs Hardyz vs Dudleyz TLC 3 SD May 01 ***** 3/4*

This match you just showed us here...

Chris Benoit and Chris Jericho vs Austin and Triple H 2 Man Power Trip May 2001 ***** 3/4
*
Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle Raw Cage Match June 2001 ***** 1/2*


It's a shame Chris got hurt but going at that pace and never really having had REAL time off ever it's no surprise he did. You can only be a workrate machine and wrestle that often and go all out that many times before your body breaks down. One thing I really admire about Benoit's wrestling skills is the fact he didn't come back from injury a lesser guy. He still kept his same level of quality and then raised the bar in 03 and onto his title reign. It's a shame he wasn't booked better.

Here's what I wrote about Benoit-Angle Backlash 2001 since it was discussed in this thread few pages back....


----

*WWF Backlash 2001: Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle 30 Minute Ultimate Submission Match*


*The Details:*

-From *CHI TOWN*, where they appreciate WRESTLING..

*-30 minute time limit,* works like an Ironman match, however it is submission only, and they must take place inside the ring, person with the most submission victories in a half an hour will win.

-30 second rest period in-between falls. (Can Submission decisions be called falls?) You get the jist....

-The second in a three consecutive PPV series with Angle and Benoit, this was the only one of the three the Crippler got the decision. He usually lost against Angle.


*-This is my 4th favourite match between the two with RR 03, Unforgiven 02 and the Cage match from Raw in the spring of 2001 being the only ones ahead.*



*The Match:*


-Jim Ross was BANG On when he said what a Submission match was all about. I loved his description of what a Submission match should be with a score-clock and a time-limit.


Here is to some degree what he said.

*"A submission match is all about targetting a joint, a part of the body. Then using your asenal of offense to destroy that part, using your moves to hyper-extend the joint, that leads to the bigger part of the part you're attacking. Then from there you try to get as many decisions as you can, by relentlessly attacking that area and expanding as the clock goes on."*


Okay, so half of that was me and half of that was what he said. It was true though, and also one thing to remember in a match like this is when you are in trouble it is smart to tap out and give the person the decision before you risk further injury to your injured body part. As we see by an example of the first decision in this match. Kurt Angle goes up 1-0 after attacking the leg of Benoit, and Chris taps out in un-Benoit like fashion but he has to remember, this is a 30 minute match. In Kayfabe, if Chris Benoit was to allow Kurt to work over his legs and hyper-extent the knee with a leg-lock of any kind then he would be worn down and the oppurtunity for Angle to score more decisions would be there!


So in a match which features fine chain wrestling, tons of standing switches, and reversals into holds, and counter-holds with little Psychology....that's at least the little bit of psychology we DID get. That both guys would focus on the clock and not allow the other guy to injure themselves further more then they would in a match which only was regulated at one fall.


I feel that was different and unique, and an aspect I really liked about the match.
It made it feel REAL. And that's one thing a certain in-ring technician guru did extremely well...Bret Hart, you may have heard of him. He made Wrestling feel REAL more then anyone I have ever seen.

SO I loved how in this feud we had a variety of stuff between Angle and Benoit and it was never repetitive. 

People PRAISE Flair-Steamboat to no end, and one of the trilogy matches from 89 (My favourite) and IMO one of the greatest matches of all time happened in this same city, just over a decade before this Classic.

But one thing Flair-Steamboat didn't have was a lot of diversity. It wasn't as Complex as the Angle-Benoit series. I may get hell for saying that from posters but I don't give a shit, it's the way I see it. I think Angle and Benoit brought something different each time to their matches.

Flair and Steamboat wasn't as complex as Angle and Benoit in my mind. It probably was more crisp, the feud and matches will go down in history as "BETTER" but it wasn't nearly as dynamic. It definitely had better psychology and all that though...

So one thing I will say about Kurt Angle here in this match is I loved how resourceful he was. How he adapted to his environment around him.

A couple examples of this are when he grabbed the top rope for leverage while Benoit went for a drop-kick in mid-air and ended up crashing and burning falling to the mat, as Angle stood tall by the ropes since he grabbed the top rope after being sling-shot across the ring for the ride from an irish-whip.

Also if Benoit was going to counter a hold from Angle, Kurt rolled over to the ropes to make sure that no matter what hold Benoit was going to try and make Kurt submit with, he would have the ropes near-by to break the hold. Smart stuff. Again, in a match with little psychology and just lots of WRESTLING sequences, this was very, very smart.
Don't get me wrong, the match does have psychology in the sense where there is logic. Both men have a strategy and there is even selling. 

However no long-term selling which is a big flaw to the match, but I'll let it slide due to the brilliance of everything else. Again this match is about the score, and the time remaining.

So going in knowing all of that, here we go....

-------------

Again, the competitor who scores the most submissions in thirty minutes wins.

Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit both around this time competed in so many Classic matches, they just had to add another to their resume. It did not matter if it was a tv match or PPV.

Angle with a hilarious anti-Chicago sports promo. Also attacked the weight of famous Chicagonians. If that's even a term.

Benoit comes out and was not extremely over as a babyface outside the smarks.

Crossface versus the Ankle lock.


Chris Benoit and Angle with a stare-off now as they are feeling one another out as they so often did in their many classic battles.


Both men tie-up in the corner. Angle learned his submission skill in the Amateurs, Benoit in the Dungeon and Japan.

Paul E talks about Japan knowing what Benoit had to endure do to his experiences with him.

Angle with a single-leg sweep on Benoit and Benoit targets the elbow as both men roll around on the mat and then the crowd applaud. I love when the attitude era crowds have appreciation for some fine technical wrestling.

Both men set to go here Angle could not wrap his arms around Benoit as he grabbed the bottom rope. Benoit taken down by Angle and then Benoit grabbed Angle by the head. Angle goes for an Ankle Lock and then Benoit grabbed the knee back of Angle.

The two roll around on one another on the mat, Benoit almost slaps on the Crossface. Angle rolls out and goes for a quick little walk, a breather. Both men upped their cardio-vascular conditioning for this match apparently. Benoit wanted to exploit Kurt Angle and his weaknesses and he tried with a hiplock but Angle rolled out.

Both men look intense.

Now in mid-ring Angle took down Benoit but Benoit got the Crossface almost, once more Angle rolled to the ropes.

Keota outside the ring warning both guys to get back on both sides. I LOVE with the methodical pace how the whole front row stood up for that last sequence. Benoit with a nice waist-lock take-down. Benoit wont let go, both guys countered each others waist locks.

A crippler crossface on the mat-floor, Angle taps but the submission had to be in the ring obviously so it does not count.

Still 0-0, five minutes and a half into the match. Angle goes for a chair, Keota tells him to put it down and Angle tells him to shut up. Angle is a bit intimidated by Benoit as Benoit seemed to exploit Angle and his shoulder as Chris was a technical expert and knew where to go.

Now a right by Angle and a take-down, Angle with a leg-lock and Benoit taps out. I was saying before it's smart to tap out early because you don't want the injured parts to cause you any more decisions.

*Angle is up 1-0 at 7:07 of the match.

　

30 second rest period.*

　

Angle with a chop-block then took Benoit down and targetted the leg of Benoit. Benoit was smart in tapping out quickly so he could be durable for the rest of the bout.

Angle charged towards Benoit and he slapped on the Crossface. Benoit has a cross arm-ringer and Angle had no choice but to tap out.

Tied at one nearing the nine minute mark and another rest period.

　

All tied up, here we go again.

Chris Benoit still limping, doing a fabulous job at selling the leg. Over-head wristlock take-down and both men roll to the ropes to the official calls for the break. Angle is scooped up and a beautiful shoulder-breaker to Kurt Angle. Benoit sends Angle into the turnbuckle sternum first then hits a chop, then sternum first Angle goes again.

Benoit hit with a chair as the official was down. Angle had to make Benoit submit and at 10:10 he makes Benoit tap.

2-1 Angle.

　

Rest period again.

Angle stomping on Benoit. Benoit still doing an excellent job at selling the leg as both of his submissions were during the Ankle lock.

Angle made Benoit tap out to the Crippler Crossface.

　
Benoit limping up and Angle is choking out the head of Benoit on the middle ropes applying a front facelock. Angle slams Benoit into the steps.

Back in the ring a charging Angle was back-dropped to the floor over the top rope. Benoit still targetting the shoulder of one Kurt Angle and slams him hard into the post. Outside the ring Benoit continued to clobber Angle and hit him with a chop.

Angle reversed an irish-whip and sent Benoit into the steps. Kurt Angle puts the Ankle Lock on Benoit on the floor, Benoit taps but it does not count.

*We are at the official mid-way point.*

Both guys back in the ring and Angle goes for an arm-breaker trying to hyper-extend the elbow. Benoit trying to get out holding the arm, and all in the meanwhile has had time to rest that injured leg.

Angle stomps on Benoit although he grabbed the ropes and got the break. Kurt Angle in control still with a 3-1 advantage. Angle then locks on an abdominal stretch as he tries taking more of Benoit out and not just the leg of Benoit. 13:30 left.

Benoit counters with a hiplock and now he has a cross arm-breaker on Kurt Angle but he reached out to the ropes, despite the extra tork from Benoit. Angle selling the arm still but picks Benoit up and makes him drop with a straight right hand. Benoit now quick as a cat going for the Sharpshooter.

Benoit in mid-ring has the Sharpshooter but Angle got to the ropes as the fans boo because they obviously wanted to see Kurt Angle tap to the Sharpshooter.

At 12:00 minutes left Benoit reversed a suplex into a half-crab and Angle tapped out. Benoit has drawn with-in one.

*Angle leading 3-2 as Benoit scored a victory with the half crab.

　

Rest period.*

Benoit now in control still limping, Benoit was a top notch seller.

The sky is blue. 

Benoit does not get to capitalize on the oppurtunity after the rest period as Angle goes for a walk limping around the ring, despite Benoit following him, Angle still walks. A charging Benoit sent Angle near the barricade and then Angle got sent hard into the steel steps. Angle runs around the ring and rolls in and catches Benoit up 3-2 with ten minutes left. Both guys slug it out, twenty minutes in, I could watch these guys go for two hours. Angle kicking at Benoit each time he comes close to the apron and he knees him out, then stomping away at Benoit.

I really liked how they paced this match here. You can tell with every spot, it was all apart of the story.

The coward and the hero.

Obviously now in 2014 I think more people would call Angle a hero and Benoit a coward but that could be just my opinion.

Angle charged into Benoit in the corner and Angle went for an Ankle Lock after a quick drop toe-hold but Benoit grabbed to the ropes. Ross points out Benoit has two enemies. (No, dont go there….) Angle and the clock. Angle with a hard suplex on the mat taking Benoit down. Angle with a headlock and a grape-vine, back into a basic sleeper. Angle running down the clock.

Benoit with a jaw-breaker, a modified stunner. Benoit then gets hit with a clothesline by Angle.

Some USA chants.

Angle stomping on Benoit driving the air out of Benoit…

Benoit with a belly to back suplex, he holds on to make them consecutive germans. Angle blocks them and now Benoit went for a Sharpshooter, Angle went for an Ankle Lock, all these moves are countered and Benoit with an Ankle Lock, Angle taps out.

We are tied at three!

*2 minute warning!*

So now we have a 

Rest period. Kurt Angle taps out to his own submission hold. 
Both guys have now tapped to there own hold in this one to give the other guy a fall, or decision if you WEILLLLLLL.....
Benoit strikes the leg of Angle. A waist-lock into a German by Benoit then Angle held onto the top rope for additional leverage AS I SAID he loved doing here in this one and a low blow.

An ankle lock by Kurt Angle And Benoit is trying not to tap and he does not. The clock runs out.

*
BAW GOD we got a tie game, or match...here.*



*The Finish:*

-A lot like Mania 12, Fink says we're going to Sudden death and Angle is not happy about it. He almost cries. Where-as Bret was just pissed off....and probably cried after-wards.


Overtime. 3-3.

The seventh and deciding decision. How appropriate it's #7 in Overtime, like a Blackhawks game. Sudden-death, who will be the hero, Sharp, Toews, Kane, Seabrook, Hossa? Oh yeah, it's just Angle and Benoit in there. Sorry about that, by the way, that's the Canadian in me coming out with the Hockey reference.

Kurt Angle going right back to work on the Ankle and knee on Chris Benoit. Angle with a belly to belly overhead suplex. Benoit drives Angle into the turnbuckle and hit a hiplock. Angle then with a FULL body-scissors, and an abdominal stretch in a vertical posigion lying down on the mat. A unique submission hold for sure.

Especially for over-time, but here is where I think from a wrestling stand-point Angle is smart.

See with a move like this, he is gasping an already fatigued work-horse like Chris Benoit. Why? With a body-scissors he is cutting off the oxygen to Benoit, slowing blood-flow to the brain and wearing down all his limbs. Applying pressure to the rib-cage. And no that wasn't something Heyman or Ross said on commentary, it was something for the old mind of me. (Pats self on back) Hey, let me have that one. I have said way too many stupid things over the years in my reviews. So bravo Mr. Angle. Nicely done.
As a matter of fact....

Angle gets shit on so much from the IWC and the rumor Angle doesen't know what he's doing has spread like wildfire, mostly because it's true. But there were a lot of matches, the guy knew what he was fucking doing. Like with Eddie at Mania 20 or on SD! in 05. Or with Chris at the 03 Rumble or Unforgiven 2002. Forget the Cage match because well, from a psychology stand-point both guys were morons leaping off the top. Oh and Sorry about the F Bomb a little earlier, I use them when I really want to enforce something. So that works if I do them few and far between.

One of the things Benoit did so well in this bout was reversals, his ability to counter holds and display his mat-skills he likely learned from Stu in the Dungeon, 2 hours down south of Edmonton in Calgary, Alberta. Or maybe Japan, or both. Chris did his home-work.

So again it should come as no surprise he found a way out of Angle's hold and turned it into a desperation crossface!

In Overtime!

The fans go wild! 

Benoit rolls Kurt Angle over and has the Crossface! Fans pop.

In the end at 31:31 Chris Benoit made Angle submit and won the match after he applied the Crossface to complete the come-back! Chris 4, Angle 3. Match..over.
So a lot like the Blackhawks coming from behind and winning in OT, it didn't get quite the same pop as Chi Town loves their Hawks more then they loved the Canadian Crippler. But he was getting there....very slowly...but surely. I still say Benoit never really got over as a face until the 03 Rumble and peaked at Backlash 04. He was a better HEEL anyway if you ask me.






---


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Kurt Angle's work is so damn polarizing. At one point the guy was legit a GOAT contender. Then he just fell off so hard. It's a shame cause at one point he could have been described as a broomstick carrier. Now he's the broomstick.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Almost literally he is. He's pretty much a walking "wheelchair inbound - date TBD" sign. One of those w/tons and tons neons in it, like you'd see in Vegas.

2001 is easily his best year. And, alongside possibly 2002 and 2003, the only year where I'd go: "Yeah, Angle is certainly among the BITW" - though certainly not THE best, not in 2001 at least (STEVE MOTHERFUCKING AUSTIN). From there on, the downhill fall was in epic scale (despite a few good to great matches here and there).

Anyways, a match that got my interest, not having it seen since original airing, is the Jeff Hardy/Edge Ladder match. For those who remember it: is it a total mindless spotfest, like I somewhat remember? Or is it any good and actually worth (re)watching?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just love this snapshot in regards to the Backlash 2001 main event:










Wonder if that ever happen again..........unlikely.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Interesting u say Jeff edge ladder I just watched Jeff edge jday well the whole jday 09 PPV and its a really good show.

Edge isn't the greatest singles wrestler without a gimmick. This match with Jeff and some versus Eddie Benoit hhh and angle are probably his best non gimmick singles matches I liked the work on Jeff's back/ribs in this match.

It really pissed me off how many times they gave edge the belt.

Even hardy in the 08 09 time period the booking could of been a lot better.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I don't like this whole bold post thing. Get it outta here!



ATF said:


> Anyways, a match that got my interest, not having it seen since original airing, is the Jeff Hardy/Edge Ladder match. For those who remember it: is it a total mindless spotfest, like I somewhat remember? Or is it any good and actually worth (re)watching?


It's not good. I don't even remember what I didn't like about it, but I gave it **. :lol I do recall completely hating the ending though.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The ending looked hilarious :lol. But the REAL ending is classic. I liked their Royal Rumble and Judgment Day match more. Pretty incredible how those two main evented PPVs even though they were Smackdown guys and the WWE kept on pushing Cena/Orton/Batista/HHH down our throats.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Rock vs Venis from October 7, 99 was a good match, FF. Mankind is such a goofball.

Major lol @ the Mark Henry sex addict/incest angle. :lmao He deserves a medal for actually putting up with the shit they fed him in this time period.

Reading its wrestlecrap induction _here_ had me in tears. :lmao

FUCK OFF BOLD FONT! ARGH.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

I remember Val Venis and Al Snow were both getting huge pushes as Heels in late 1999....Al Snow was feuding with Rock and Foley for a couple of weeks and who could forget that promo "I HATE EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU..." then comes out a couple of weeks later like nothing happened. What does everybody WANT?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I did well in avoiding that Ladder match, apparently :lol. I do enjoy the fuck out of their Rumble match (that's the one where Matt turns on Jeff, right?), JD I don't recall but then again I have little memory from that PPV in general, outside of Punk/Umaga and Jericho/Mysterio.

Oh, and btw, I gotta say that one of the tags for this thread is HILARIOUS: "puro=instant five stars" :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Im up until the 30th April '01 episode of Raw atm, think JD is the next PPV. All aboard the Invasion train after that i guess.

Ive said it before, but man i wish Triple H didn't get injured in '01. Benoit too TBH.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Im up until the 30th April '01 episode of Raw atm, think JD is the next PPV. All aboard the Invasion train after that i guess.

Ive said it before, but man i wish Triple H didn't get injured in '01. Benoit too TBH.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Watched *Backlash 2009* yesterday, and I really believe that it's a really underrated PPV. The best of that year, imo. My ratings:

Christian/Swagger- ***1/2
Jericho/Steamboat- ***1/4
Kane/Punk- **3/4
Hardy/Hardy- ***1/4
Orton&Legacy/HHH&Batista&Shane- ***1/2
Cena/Edge- ****1/4


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Watched *Backlash 2009* yesterday, and I really believe that it's a really underrated PPV. The best of that year, imo. My ratings:

Christian/Swagger- ***1/2
Jericho/Steamboat- ***1/4
Kane/Punk- **3/4
Hardy/Hardy- ***1/4
Orton&Legacy/HHH&Batista&Shane- ***1/2
Cena/Edge- ****1/4


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

JDAY 09 also has a very solid John Morrison vs Shelton Benjamin match as well as Swagger vs Christian. The JOMO-Shelton is better though.

Backlash 07 and 09 are both solid.

JDAY 01 has a good Angle-Benoit and Tag Team Turmoil, the main event is OKAY outside the ending and I dont recall anything else on the card being good.


Man Sting and Muta vs Steiner's from Japan on Stinger's DVD is a damn good tag team match.

***** 1/4*

Had they kept the same pace and went another 5-7 minutes I figure I'd easily give it ***** 1-2 - **** 3/4.*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*The Undertaker & Kane vs Triple H & Steve Austin (WWF Backlash 2001)*

x2dvxdj

_WWF Championship/WWF Intercontinental Championship/WWF Tag Team Championship_

_Unedited/Unblurred_. By request. (Last request for a couple of weeks btw)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Listening to the Jericho podcast with JBL. Some real cool stuff, always loved the JBL character, he's one of the very best heels WWE has ever had. Shame he's so fucking terrible on commentary these days, but if you watch some Smackdowm from 2006 you'll realize he CAN actually be pretty good, it's just Vince and Dunn in his headset turning him into a moron.

I don't know why I find this stuff fascinating, but I do. JBL just said Eddie called their Judgement Day 2004 classic 100% on the fly in the ring, even the finish. That's amazing to me. Eddie was bleeding to death and he was still able to call the match, one of the top 5 matches in WWE History, completely on the fly. No wonder that match feels so organic and natural. How many guys do you think on the current roster are capable of not discussing anything before going out, then calling a 30 minute long PPV main event by the seat of their pants and have it be a classic? Cena maybe, Brock definitely, Bryan definitely, Cesaro definitely, um.....Zayn for sure. Anyone else? Orton probably could if he genuinely gave a shit and had an opponent like Rollins. It's a rare skill these days. JBL just said if that match had been with anyone other than Eddie Guerrero, he would have probably never main evented another PPV, because Eddie killed himself to make JBL look legit.

Alright I'm done with my bit of weekly Eddie worship. Nothing to see here, move along folks.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Rusev/Reigns had a good match on Smackdown this week, and I'd call it Reigns' best (singles) match ever. *** for it and definitely worth a watch if you're a fan of either guy (Rusev was excellent here).


----------



## RATED R RULES (May 27, 2007)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Listening to the Jericho podcast with JBL. Some real cool stuff, always loved the JBL character, he's one of the very best heels WWE has ever had. Shame he's so fucking terrible on commentary these days, but if you watch some Smackdowm from 2006 you'll realize he CAN actually be pretty good, it's just Vince and Dunn in his headset turning him into a moron.


Totally agree on JBL's 2006 commentary being excellent. I remember thinking how much my enjoyment of the show went up when he took over from Tazz. Really amazing to see how bad he is now and I'd tend to agree that the guys in his ear are at least partly to blame. It borders on unwatchable these days some of the commentary. Even just having Big Show on commentary last week on RAW for Rollins vs Reigns was excellent and added to my enjoyment compared to the usual snigering.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Hey guys, so I started a thing about my favorite wrestlers of 2014, and the first one I did was Seth Rollins, so I would love if you check it out *here* and give me some feedback!


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

Rhett Titus (The Romantic Touch) from ROH and Lance Anoa'i from HOH worked as jobbers against the Ascension on Smackdown


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Randomly decided to watch something today. Orton/Rhodes from Raw in late 2013 with Cody's job on the line. Great stuff, probably ***3/4. The story drives this thing and damn if the near falls aren't exciting. 

Slowly working my way through 2014. I think....I think I like wrestling again :shocked:


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Favorite match video packages?

Mine off the top of my head -


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I don't have the videos for it, but WWE has simply been on fire with the video packages lately, so two of my all time favorites are from recent history. 1.) The Best vs The Beast Summerslam 2013 Punk/Brock match. Simply amazing. "I'll always be a Paul Heyman guy" "You were my best friend". Helps that one of the 10 greatest matches in WWE history followed, but man oh man what an emotional, excellently done build for the modern era of shitty match builds.

The other is the video for Bryan at WM 30. Nuff said. You all know the deal. A dream come true, that whole night was.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Yeah, the Monster promo is prob my favorite wrestling match promo of all time. Shit's perfect, fitting music going along to detail the course of Bryan's career and its legendary culmination at WrestleMania.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

I skipped Rusev-Reigns because I figured it was going to be Rusev dominating the match for 5-7 minutes and Reigns comes back with power moves and it has a dirty finish or DQ....but I guess I'll check it out now.


All those video-packages named above are RECENTLY..but it makes sense as no matter what people say about WWE Today, with technology and the ability to do more VIDEO PACKAGES are something that SHOULD get better with time and probably have.

That Punk-Cena MITB is legendary for sure and really sets you up for their classic.."DO I have everybody's attention NOW!?"

Rock-Austin MY WAY at WM X7 is the king and I don't really think anything will top it. It just brings me back to the whole month of March of 01. Nostalgia man.

The reason that video package is so phenominal isn't just the song of the fact it was those guys in that time, but on the Raw's and SD's for two weeks before WM 17 they showed like half of the video package every hour on the show before a commercial break.



RATED R RULES said:


> Totally agree on JBL's 2006 commentary being excellent. I remember thinking how much my enjoyment of the show went up when he took over from Tazz. Really amazing to see how bad he is now and I'd tend to agree that the guys in his ear are at least partly to blame. It borders on unwatchable these days some of the commentary. Even just having Big Show on commentary last week on RAW for Rollins vs Reigns was excellent and added to my enjoyment compared to the usual snigering.



My main problem with JBL on commentary is he seems so forced. He still sort of does it is how quick he is to jump on the bandwagon of whoever THE "FUTURE IS"...say what you want about it being his job as a heel color guy but Bobby Heenan never did this all the time.

He used to call Kennedy the fastest rising star in the company and without a doubt the FUTURE and if you go back and watch 06-07 PPV's and hear that now you can't help but laugh. He does this now with Rollins. Even if Rollins does look more promising, it's still VERY, VERY forced.

He didn't feel the need to constantly put over a mid-card future shining star named Shawn Michaels in 1992 and 1993. No, rather he would stick up for him and let his matches do the talking.

Then as he beats Tito Santana to open Wrestlemania 8 and walks off Bobby spits out a Classic Line *"You're looking at The Superstar"* of the 90's Monsoon...because I'll be damned if he wasn't right and now when I go back and watch that moment I can get chills because of how prophetic it was. He could of said this about anyone and Shawn had not really proved that much by March of 1992 so that was just a really neat line.

My point is Heenan said this but didn't brag about Michaels every show. He did do a hilarious "BREAKING NEWS...Shawn Michaels...HAS LEFT THE BUIDING" (Seen during the 8 man tag at WM 8) and At Summerslam 1992, and Monsoon's "WHOOO CARES! WHO CARES IF SHAWN MICHAELS HAS LEFT THE BUILDING" Made it even better.


Yes, it might be unfair to compare JBL to Bobby Heenan but my point is he doesen't need to go all out on these guys like Rollins or in the past Kennedy, MVP, etc, etc. Let there work speak for itself, stop calling them the fastest rising star and the greatest thing since sliced break. It doesen't really seem real. It seems so forced, same with him siding with the Authority. He should give reasons why he sides with them and not just "SIDE WITH THEM."


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

machomark said:


> I skipped Rusev-Reigns because I figured it was going to be Rusev dominating the match for 5-7 minutes and Reigns comes back with power moves and it has a dirty finish or DQ....but I guess I'll check it out now.
> 
> 
> All those video-packages named above are RECENTLY..but it makes sense as no matter what people say about WWE Today, with technology and the ability to do more VIDEO PACKAGES are something that SHOULD get better with time and probably have.
> ...



I agree with you for sure. WWE has this infuriating habit of insulting the audiences intelligence through the commentary, it's positively maddening. There are instances every single Raw or Smackdown where the commentary team will put something over as "the greatest" or "most incredible" or "best ever" and it's just flat out nonsense. Nonsense. The commentary team has lost all credibility with the audience by doing that.

It reminded me of something I saw on the Memphis Heat doc. Jerry Jarrett talks about how great Lance Russell was, and one of the things he pointed out was how Lance ALWAYS remained credible with the audience. One of the main ways he would do this was, when he was reading the card for the big weekend show, if it was just an average card, nothing really amazing, he would just read the card. No frills. But if it was a stacked card and looked to be something special, he would follow it by saying things like "I wouldn't miss this one for the world". Little things like that are crucial for the audience to not feel insulted.

When Jerry Lawler said during the Rollins/Ambrose HiaC match "Have you guys ever seen a match START on top of a Cell? ITS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE. THIS IS INCREDIBLE" or whatever I wanted to puke. Um, Jerry? Remember Foley/Taker? Probably the most infamous match on WWE history? The one where Foley got thrown off the top almost right on top of you? You were calling the action with JR. How do you try and convince people this is a 1st time? How do you try and tell the crowd that Cena is the greatest WWE champion ever? That's for the crowd to decide, not you. It used to be, commentary was just 2-3 guys watching the action, calling what they see, discussing the wrestlers involved, and just in general tell the story of the bout. Nowadays, I constantly feel like they are trying to sell me something, or convince me of something, or just in general insult my intelligence or tell me flat out lies. It's awful.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Yeah you know the commentary is really bad when you can go back to the New Generation era with Vince and his corniness is a welcomed change because he actually talks about what is going on in the ring. (WITH EXCITEMENT THAT DOESN'T SEEM FORCED)


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

*Ten great packages I think of:*

For the record, I think as a whole this is a severely underrated feud in large part due to Michaels/Jericho running congruently. 





HBK/Taker 26
Boy the premise of this feud was stupid but a great package and one of the more surprisingly intense matches we have seen in the E.
















 (as new as this is this might be my all time favorite)




 (Classic rock mark and a Bon Scott fan)




 (As utterly botched as the build was and as unfortunate as the match was, this promo was absolutely ace)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I agree with you for sure. WWE has this infuriating habit of insulting the audiences intelligence through the commentary, it's positively maddening. There are instances every single Raw or Smackdown where the commentary team will put something over as "the greatest" or "most incredible" or "best ever" and it's just flat out nonsense. Nonsense. The commentary team has lost all credibility with the audience by doing that.
> 
> It reminded me of something I saw on the Memphis Heat doc. Jerry Jarrett talks about how great Lance Russell was, and one of the things he pointed out was how Lance ALWAYS remained credible with the audience. One of the main ways he would do this was, when he was reading the card for the big weekend show, if it was just an average card, nothing really amazing, he would just read the card. No frills. But if it was a stacked card and looked to be something special, he would follow it by saying things like "I wouldn't miss this one for the world". Little things like that are crucial for the audience to not feel insulted.
> 
> When Jerry Lawler said during the Rollins/Ambrose HiaC match "Have you guys ever seen a match START on top of a Cell? ITS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE. THIS IS INCREDIBLE" or whatever I wanted to puke. Um, Jerry? Remember Foley/Taker? Probably the most infamous match on WWE history? The one where Foley got thrown off the top almost right on top of you? You were calling the action with JR. How do you try and convince people this is a 1st time? How do you try and tell the crowd that Cena is the greatest WWE champion ever? That's for the crowd to decide, not you. It used to be, commentary was just 2-3 guys watching the action, calling what they see, discussing the wrestlers involved, and just in general tell the story of the bout. Nowadays, I constantly feel like they are trying to sell me something, or convince me of something, or just in general insult my intelligence or tell me flat out lies. It's awful.


I'm pretty sure all of that happens simply because Vinny and Dunn believe the show is only viewed by either morons who care not, or little kids who can't write down their own names, so they simply cater to those who THEY believe their intelligence cannot be insulted if they have none. Thus, any kind of a) forced epicness, and b) trivial bullshit will get them all excited. 

And quite frankly, I cannot possibly believe that JBL for one can be THIS bad, when back in 2006/07 he actually knew how to call a match while heeling it up if necessary but never truly bringing someone down, like he constantly does nowadays (or Cole in his heel days). As for the other two, well, Lawler... yeah, he's beyond repair by this point (that quote from the Dean/Seth is unbelievably laughable, even more so given how it's coming from the guy that famously said "That's it, he's dead" right after Mick Foley took one of the most brutal spots in WWE history, the second in that same night) but I know Cole can do a good calljob every now and then. Remember his efforts in Punk/Brock or the "Miracle on Bourbon Street"? Yeah, he can be good when he truly puts the effort in.

Oh, and yeah, the GOAT promo package is either Rock/Austin WM 17 or HHH/Bryan WM 30. Still would pick Rock/Austin, cause, you know, set the atmosphere to neat perfection and it was followed by a potential top 5 match in the company's history, but yeah, Monster was the perfect song for Bryan's journey.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

x2dd9og

Probably still my favorite. Along with Taker/HBK. Also Austin/HHH leading up until NWO 2001.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Listening to the Jericho podcast with JBL. Some real cool stuff, always loved the JBL character, he's one of the very best heels WWE has ever had. Shame he's so fucking terrible on commentary these days, but if you watch some Smackdowm from 2006 you'll realize he CAN actually be pretty good, it's just Vince and Dunn in his headset turning him into a moron.
> 
> I don't know why I find this stuff fascinating, but I do. JBL just said Eddie called their Judgement Day 2004 classic 100% on the fly in the ring, even the finish. That's amazing to me. Eddie was bleeding to death and he was still able to call the match, one of the top 5 matches in WWE History, completely on the fly. No wonder that match feels so organic and natural. How many guys do you think on the current roster are capable of not discussing anything before going out, then calling a 30 minute long PPV main event by the seat of their pants and have it be a classic? Cena maybe, Brock definitely, Bryan definitely, Cesaro definitely, um.....Zayn for sure. Anyone else? Orton probably could if he genuinely gave a shit and had an opponent like Rollins. It's a rare skill these days. JBL just said if that match had been with anyone other than Eddie Guerrero, he would have probably never main evented another PPV, because Eddie killed himself to make JBL look legit.
> 
> Alright I'm done with my bit of weekly Eddie worship. Nothing to see here, move along folks.


Not many guys can do that. I would imagine anyone that has wrestled a long time outside of WWE and long matches could do it to varying levels. So Bryan (obviously), Jamie Noble (he counts as being on the roster right?), Cesaro, Zayn, Owens, Balor, Itami... You get the picture where I'm going with those guys right. I left Rollins and Ambrose out because they are so much better in WWE then they were before they were signed. If I wanted to prove that developmental works I would use them as an example because they have both really improved in the ring I think. I also left out Neville since he was in Dragon Gate for so long and if you know the kind of matches they work there you would understand why I'm not sure he could call a decent match on his own.

Then you have the veterans that I hope would be able to do it. Kane, Big Show, and Mark Henry have been wrestling for decades so they should be able to do that. It might not be the best match but it would be on par with the matches they normally have I would say. Cena and Orton should also be able to since they've been top guys for so long and must have wrestled hundreds of main event level matches (PPVs, Raw, SD, house shows) each. Triple H can probably also do it since he's also been a top guy for a really long time and has experience with working with guys that would just call their matches on the fly.


----------



## RATED R RULES (May 27, 2007)

On video packages I thought both Bryan/Trips and Cena/Wyatt from WM30 are Top 10 of all time packages. The Rock/Austin one and Cena/Punk MITB are also obvious ones that come to mind.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Best video package is probably Rock vs Austin from WM17. "MY WAY ON THE HIGHWAY!" I also love the promo for the Angle/Mysterio/Orton triple threat at WM22. It's funny how much the song used can impact it because once again, I really like the "I Dare You" song. Another underrated promo for this year is WM30 with Cena vs Wyatt. Made memorable thanks to Eminem's song being well fitting into the story.

I'm not an experienced wrestler so my word may not mean anything but I've always figured it's easier to call everything on the fly except a couple of big spots being gone through backstage rather than go over the whole thing the way DDP used to. Most wrestlers that have spoken on this seem to prefer calling most of it in the ring and that's how I imagine I would be if I was a wrestler. Just seems easier to go from A to B when you're in the right position rather than try to remember what was planned next.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Brock said:


> Just love this snapshot in regards to the Backlash 2001 main event:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I liked this idea a lot. I think the only other time they did this was the Diesel/HBK vs Yoko/Owen thing at In Your House. I could be wrong. I was kinda hoping when Hell No were tag champs they would go for the WWE and WHC....even if they lost. Oh well.



Srdjan99 said:


> Watched *Backlash 2009* yesterday, and I really believe that it's a really underrated PPV. The best of that year, imo. My ratings:
> 
> Christian/Swagger- ***1/2
> Jericho/Steamboat- ***1/4
> ...


Really fun PPV. Steamboat alone was great to see. 



machomark said:


> JDAY 09 also has a very solid John Morrison vs Shelton Benjamin match as well as Swagger vs Christian. The JOMO-Shelton is better though.
> 
> Backlash 07 and 09 are both solid.
> 
> ...


Loved that Sting/Muta vs Steiners match. 



Superkick said:


> Favorite match video packages?
> 
> Mine off the top of my head -



For some reason I loved this one. I'm more of a fan of their match at WM27 then 28 but this video package was excellent. Great use of song and images. Also as a huge MDM Ted DiBiase mark I loved hearing his voice at the start. I actually believed for a bit that HHH was going to win and turn heel.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Best video package is probably Rock vs Austin from WM17. "MY WAY ON THE HIGHWAY!" I also love the promo for the Angle/Mysterio/Orton triple threat at WM22. It's funny how much the song used can impact it because once again, I really like the "I Dare You" song. Another underrated promo for this year is WM30 with Cena vs Wyatt. Made memorable thanks to Eminem's song being well fitting into the story.
> 
> I'm not an experienced wrestler so my word may not mean anything but I've always figured it's easier to call everything on the fly except a couple of big spots being gone through backstage rather than go over the whole thing the way DDP used to. Most wrestlers that have spoken on this seem to prefer calling most of it in the ring and that's how I imagine I would be if I was a wrestler. Just seems easier to go from A to B when you're in the right position rather than try to remember what was planned next.



I've read just about every wrestler bio there is and everyone seems to have their own preference. For instance, Mick Foley would visualize entire matches, promos, and scenarios while he was driving down the road. So when it came time for say, the match against Shawn Michaels at MindGames, when Shawn approached Mick and said "I'm completely fried, I've got nothing man I'm sorry. You got any ideas?" Mick would rattle off maybe a half dozen or more different spots and just the general layout of tone of the match in general. That's not to say that's how Mick always worked, because he had plenty of matches, like say his 2 classic tag encounters with the Nasty Boys in 1994, where nothing would be discussed except who was going to win and then he'd just go out and brawl/wing it. I'm just saying for the big, important, PPV quality bouts, Mick liked to have the match in his mind before his music hit. He did this for his classic against Sting at Beach Blast 1992, he and Sting had a talk in the bathroom and Mick laid out most of the match for Sting and had to convince him it was the way to go.

Bret Hart was similar to Mick, in that he liked to visualize the majority of the match in his mind before going out, which he would do for his classics with Owen, Davey Boy, Diesel, etc. Then again, when he wrestled someone like Steve Austin at WM 13, they discussed maybe 3-5 spots like the ring bell spot and then the finish and getting color, then other than that he went out and let Steve call it and just went with whatever popped into his head.

Flair, Guerrero, Steamboat, Austin, and Benoit preferred to not really discuss anything and instead would just go out and listen to the crowd. They might have a few high spots they would discuss but otherwise 90+% of their shit was called in the ring. Punk, Brock, Samoa Joe, and Bryan operate the same way.

DDP and Savage were complete control freaks, especially Savage. Randy actually wrote a script for the classic with Steamboat at WM 3. Like word for word, "Step 1- Lock up, Step 2-Arm drag, Step 3, back into corner" etc etc. That seems like it would make things so needlessly difficult what if you accidently skip a step? Do you go back and re do it? Does the match not have a good flow to it anymore? Seems an odd way to have a pro wrestling match.

Now, it seems to me in today's WWE, most of the matches are a cross between Mick/Bret's method and Savages method. They control everything through agents and Vince's booking. It's really killed a lot of the spontaneity. Not a huge fan of it. They should be teaching guys in NXT how to work on the fly.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

I loved on Macho's DVD looking at the point form postets he has with Steamboat.

Sure they can improvise their actions and adapt to the crowd but move for move and hold for hold, spot for spot was planned, for sure.

To me it really makes no difference how a person plans out a match, it's the execution and how it comes off is all I care about.

I don't give a shit if they do it on the fly, rehearse it, plan it before-hand, script it, wing it, whatever....if it looks good and is good, then I don't care.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I also don't care how they work their matches, be they planned on called in the ring, but what is shitty is when someone plans a match move for move and doesn't deviate from that plan even if its going terrible and/or the fans are shitting all over it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> I also don't care how they work their matches, be they planned on called in the ring, but what is shitty is when someone plans a match move for move and doesn't deviate from that plan even if its going terrible and/or the fans are shitting all over it.


Ah yes, the ol Sheamus problem.

Friendly reminder that Wrestle Kingdom is tomorrow at 2 ET. Don't forget about it guys.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> I also don't care how they work their matches, be they planned on called in the ring, but what is shitty is when someone plans a match move for move and doesn't deviate from that plan even if its going terrible and/or the fans are shitting all over it.



Yup. That's what I'm saying. They need to train guys to think on their feet so when a match is going poorly they have the confidence and ability to think of new stuff and see if they can't save a sinking ship.

I don't know why, but it's always fascinated me how guys end up calling or coming up with a match. I LOVE the Austin podcasts were he does commentary for his matches and I really love the Special Features on some DVD's, like the Foley and Guerrero ones, where they will sit and discuss the match and why they did what they did and explain how certain things come about. Or when they screw stuff up but you didn't even realize it while watching it until they said it.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

You mentioned Austin as a guy who listened to the crowd that's true but I do feel like pointing out in particular case for one of my top matches and I'm sure many others hold this match in high regard.

I'm referring to Bret Austin 1 from New York I guess with it being the first match they had together Bret took Steve to the dungeon and they planned most of there match the weekend before and then they went out there and executed it pretty flawless. That was a match in that arena during that time period when they worked that technical pace the fans weren't really going to change anything (back then crowds in the wwf were very silent and didn't take over) in the match they just went out there and watched the art unfold.

As McMahon says on brets dvd Steve and Bret were just made for each other.

Now the Chicago submission match obviously that was more if a on the fly let's listen to the crowd and do our thing kind of match. Once they were familiar with each other the two pros went out and put on the greatest match ever at least in my book.

That's another reason wm13 and the year 1997 in general was received so well for the wwf as the feuds workrate stars storylines and everything got better the crowds got hotter and as a result the mat had a better feel.

People moan today about how crowds arent what they were in the attitude era.

We'll it makes a great show to get a good response unless it's a great wrestling city.

Look at the crowd for wyatts shield they knew something good when they saw it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

machomark said:


> You mentioned Austin as a guy who listened to the crowd that's true but I do feel like pointing out in particular case for one of my top matches and I'm sure many others hold this match in high regard.
> 
> I'm referring to Bret Austin 1 from New York I guess with it being the first match they had together Bret took Steve to the dungeon and they planned most of there match the weekend before and then they went out there and executed it pretty flawless. That was a match in that arena during that time period when they worked that technical pace the fans weren't really going to change anything (back then crowds in the wwf were very silent and didn't take over) in the match they just went out there and watched the art unfold.
> 
> ...



I actually didn't know that about their SVS 1996 bout but it doesn't surprise me, Bret hadn't worked since Mania and he had never worked Austin. Bret's a perfectionist so I can understand him wanting that match to live up to the hype.

As for WM 13, Steve says on his podcast he and Bret talked about getting color and maybe 3-4 spots and otherwise Steve called the entire thing in the ring. 

In the end as I said before I couldn't care less how a match comes about as long as it's good. But it seems to me being able to call a 30 minute PPV main event on the fly and have it be a classic is a dying skill. Hopefully Hunter is trying to get the guys in NXT more comfortable doing it


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm sure many of the talents today are capable of wrestling good 30 minute main event matches on the fly, but look at where they are wrestling. They're clearly on some sort of leash that doesn't allow them to improvise when need be. I do agree though that the worst thing to see is when wrestles wrestle for themselves instead of taking the crowd into consideration. Some guys need to remember who they are performing for, and that calls for adjustments on the fly. And in some ways, that really isn't a skill that is taught. It really just has to do with how creative your mind is. But once again, look at what company we are talking about here.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Ah yes, the ol Sheamus problem.
> 
> *Friendly reminder that Wrestle Kingdom is tomorrow at 2 ET. Don't forget about it guys.*


Okada/Tanahashi, Ibushi/Nakamura and Styles/Naito are damn sure in my watchlist. ESPECIALLY Ibushi/Nakamura. Too lazy to watch the rest, though .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Also friendly reminder to NOT talk about Wrestling Kingdom in here . Some people ain't seen it yet, so if you wanna discuss it, do so in the proper thread. In that "other" wrestling section. LOL. Other wrestling. 

Edit: Oh hey, it's Sunday. Forgot lol. Good job my BLOG~! has posts auto-setup to post every week . Backlash 2005 PPV Ramble was today for anyone who missed it the first time I posted it on here, or simply wants to read it again because I'M FUCKING AWESOME. Or something. I dunno.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I haven't seen it either, in case you didn't read what I said there :side:

But yeah, I guess you're right..... so when's the next Ramble coming? 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Never said you'd seen it, but with it being mentioned I thought it best to make sure everyone knows not to talk about it here just in case .

Next Ramble? Oh well, you see, what happened was... *runs away*

FINE. I'll go get NYR 07 disc and put it back in and load it back up and actually try to make it through the first match without shooting myself. HAPPY NOW?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah. I am. 

That show isn't as bad as it sounds. The Cage match is ok. The Turmoil is ok. DX/Rated RKO and Cena/Umaga are both awesome. The midcard is a chore, but... yeah.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Did Regal have any matches on NXT last year? Finally watched his matches against Ohno and Cesaro from 2013 today.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

He was part of a six-man tag /w Neville & Graves against the Wyatts in 2013, but that's it I think.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I did mean 2014, as it's now 2015.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

oh fuck 

yea no matches in 2014


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*No Mercy 1999:*

Hollys vs New Age Outlaws - ★¾
Jeff Jarrett vs Chyna - ★
The Rock vs British Bulldog - ★★
The Hardys vs Edge & Christian - ★★★★¼
Val Venis vs Mankind - ★★¼
Four Corners Elimination - ★★
Stone Cold vs Triple H - ★★★½

Good event for 99 standards and the ladder match is the runaway MOTYC along with the "I Quit" between Rock and Mankind although I'd give the edge to the latter.

Main event is pretty solid too. What's all the talk of Austin not wanting to put HHH over at SS considering he did it here? Did he even beat HHH in any of their major matches? HHH won this one and the 3SOH while Survivor Series had a non-finish.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

NJPW WRESTLE KINGDOM 9 - TOKYO DOME - 2015 JANUARY 4 REVIEW :mark: :mark: :mark:




Spoiler



PRE-SHOW MATCH: 15-MAN NEW JAPAN RUMBLE
Jushin Thunder Liger vs Manabu Nakanishi vs Tiger Mask vs Yuji Nagata vs TBA
N/A
Did not watch.


FOUR-WAY TAG TEAM MATCH: IWGP JR HEAVYWEIGHT TAG TEAM CHAMPSIONSHIP
Young Bucks vs Forever Hooligans vs Time Splitters vs redDragon (c)
****
Great fuckin' match. Short and sweet (or at least it felt like it). Fast-paced. Lots of high flying. Lots of double team spots and double team finishers. Young Bucks were my favorite. Loved the superkicks. I kind of knew that redDragon would win becausing losing would make ROH look bad, so winning is the only option.


SIX-MAN TAG TEAM MATCH
Jeff Jarrett, Bad Luck Fale, Yujiro Takahashi vs Hiroyoshi Tenzan, Satoshi Kojimo, Tomoaki Honma
***1/2
Fun match. The guitar spot gave me WCW nostalgia. And the diving heatbutt was insane. #krispenwah 


8-MAN TAG TEAM MATCH
Suzukigun vs Mikey Nicholls, Naomichi Marufuji, Shane Haste, Toru Yano
***
Nice match. Too much going on to really appreciate it. I didn't feel a flow and no sign of the previous betrayal. Ending was kind of cool with the NOAH kids.


KO/SUBMISSION MATCH
Kazushi Sakuraba vs Minoru Suzuki
****
HOLY SHIT! This match was a slobber-knocker. Brawlin MMA shit. They were beating the living fuck out of each other. Really awesome psychology. They captured my attention the whole time. GREAT STUFF!


NEVER OPENWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP
Togi Makabe vs Tomohiro Ishii (c)
****
MOTHERFUCKER! Two powerhouse tornados! These guys are nuts. Power clothelines and power suplexes and power slams. And the Ishii dude keeps kicking out at 1! LMAO! Great back-and-forth storytelling. Awesome match. JR gave this match a little extra POW. Physical and intense.


IWGP JR HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP
Kenny Omega vs Ryusuke Taguchi (c)
****
Very cool man. The audience was really connecting with this match. I loved the vibe between Omega and Taguchi. Classic good vs evil story.


IWGP TAG TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP 
Meiyu Tag vs Bullet Club (c) 
***3/4
Interesting match. It was fun to see these clashing teams go up against each other. I hated Doc in TNA. He was big and clunky. In Japan, he has gotten lean and more intense. It seems like he cares/enjoys what he's doing. All around, pretty decent match. Emotional moment post-match.


AJ Styles vs. Tetsuya Naito
****
Crazy match. Pure wrestling. JR made me give extra points for sure. I was marking out at the Styles Clash. I was like NO DONT DO IT YOURE GONNA KILL HIM LMAO. :lmao I want to rewatch this match because I feel like I missed some small stuff.


IWGP INTERCONTINENTAL CHAMPIONSHIP
Kota Ibushi vs Shinsuke Nakamura (c) 
*****
Perfect match. Pure brutality. I was glued to the screen every second of the way. Great sequences. Great emotion. Main event status.


IWGP HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP
Kazuchika Okada vs Hiroshi Tanahashi (c) 
*****
:done
This match is WRESTLEMANIA MAIN EVENT STATUS. Perfect. Lots of intensity and emotion right from the start. Amazing sequences and psychology. JR said their rivalry is like Rock and Austin, but the match reminded me of Shawn and Bret. I marked out with THIS IS AWESOME chants when Tanahashi jumped off the top rope over the barricade onto Okada. :mark: Tombstone after tombstone. Elbow after elbow. Frogsplash after frogsplash. I was rooting for Okada but damn Tanahashi's win was epic. 


Overall the card was top-notch. The booking flows perfectly. I liked the promos even though I dont understand Japanese. JR was amazing. One thing that would be dope is adding video packages for every feud. Great night of rasslin. 10/10


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

@Leon Knuckles, do you mind moving your post to the Puro spoilers thread? Honestly don't mind people discussing the show, here, but spoiler tag it please. That said, there was a mod ruling not to talk about the show just a few posts earlier:




#ROOT said:


> Also friendly reminder to NOT talk about Wrestling Kingdom in here . Some people ain't seen it yet, so if you wanna discuss it, do so in the proper thread. In that "other" wrestling section. LOL. Other wrestling.



If you could edit your post, or just give a link directing to your new post in the Puro thread, that'd be great. I'm probably not going to watch Okada/Tanahashi, but that did spoil the end result.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Choke2Death said:


> *No Mercy 1999:*
> 
> Hollys vs New Age Outlaws - ★¾
> Jeff Jarrett vs Chyna - ★
> ...


Yeah but No Mercy wasn't a "CLEAN WIN" even though No Way Out 01 was...I don't read too much into the whole Austin not wanting to put over HHH thing.

Perhaps he didn't feel at Summerslam 99 it was the RIGHT TIME, who knows...all I know is he eventually did the right thing like at this event.

I really liked this No Mercy 99 match as well.

Also the ladder match was so great when it happened live. I couldn't stop watching it and it definetely holds up.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Any of you guys watched/reviewed either _Batista: The Animal Unleashed _or _Wrestling's Greatest Factions _yet? Since my interest in wrestling came back I'm in the mood to buy more DVDs to add to the collection.  Batista's set probably has a shitty doc, but there's some good lookin TV matches on there that aren't on the Network. The Factions set has a slew of fun looking tag matches on it.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Batista's doc is actually pretty interesting, I atleast enjoyed it. Not anything great, but it was a nice watch.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

I have the factions set but I just have so much material here in front of me I suppose I'll watch it soon though when I do i'll post some ratings and thoughts in here and will do this week


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*WWF Insurrextion 2001:*

*Eddy Guerrero vs. Grandmaster Sexay.* *
*The Hollys & Molly Holly vs. Perry Saturn, Dean Malenko (w/Terri).* *1/2
*The Big Show vs. Bradshaw.* 1/2 *
*Four-team Elimination: Edge & Christian vs. X-Factor (w/Albert) vs. The Hardyz vs. The Dudley Boyz.* **1/2
*2/3 Falls: Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle.* ***1/2
*Queen’s Cup: William Regal vs. Chris Jericho.* **1/4
*WWF Heavyweight Title: Steve Austin & Triple H (w/Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley) vs. The Undertaker.* ***

Id say one thing about WWF 2001, Steph. :lenny


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Royal Rumble WWE Title match just got EXTREMELY interesting. Also, I stand by my argument that Kane ruins everything good in wrestling.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Yes it did and is it just me or does john cena seem to thrive in triple threat matches. I think it has something to do with the fact it's different from the let's go Cena cena sucks regular one on one formula.

I could see these three guys deliverring a creative quality main event triple threat at the rumble.

Just look at all the triple threats

Cena Orton hhh
cena big show edge
cena big show angle
Cena angle Michaels
Cena edge rvd
cena Christian Jericho
Cena hhh punk
cena show punk
Cena del Rio punk

I could go on it will just be a more dynamic match now.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Ambrose/Wyatt Ambulance match tonight was really good stuff and completely shattered my low expectations. Unlike their other matches, this one had some real substance. Some absolutely fantastic selling from Ambrose that pretty much made the whole match. Took me back to the summer when he had his shoulder taped for months at a time.  Evolved into a good brawl with some nice spots near the end. That Ambrose performance though. SHEW.

*** 3/4 for it and the first great WWE match of the year.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I really liked that match too. I do not have any reason to complain about that match itself. The feud, yeah there's lots that went wrong. But those two had a good solid ambulance match. That's a difficult task. Also liked Ziggler/Barrett a lot. Nice to see heels do heelish things. :lol at that main event segment. They fire three guys in an anticlimatic fashion, and we are still supposed to support Cena even though he acted like a dumbass. First hour of RAW was good. Second and third outside of the ambulance match were terrible. Ryback and Reigns both looked bad in their matches. I like them both, but it's clear that the crowd can sense that they need their hands held in lengthy matches. And unlike 2005 where Batista was able to get over despite being an awful wrestler, today's crowds can sense these sort of things.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Some interesting dynamics in this new main event. Brock is Heyman's man, but you got the loose partnership of Heyman/Rollins. The match structure and possibility for a Heyman cross would allude to a Lesnar loss, but his contract runs through 31. If Brock loses, what the fuck does he do for 31 if Reigns goes for the title and Brock is without a belt. Cena with the belt heading to 31 seems like a crowd hijacking waiting to happen. Rollins rolling into 31 as champ full circle vs Reigns as great as Rollins as been (the highlight for me) would be bold too. There is the question too of "is Heyman staying on board post Lesnar or following his real life best friend to help him and his friend Punk hype up in UFC?"Is the Cena heel card in play at all? If Rollins wins the strap, what happens with the MITB case? Will Rollins lose and then cash in pre Mania? Does Daniel Bryan factor into any of this? Whole lot of what ifs for me, though we may get a very generic route. 

In ring, should be tremendous. A pissed Lesnar's offense with Seth Rollins selling will be money. A Seth/Brock alliance in ring would be rather amusing. The amount of plays wwe has here keeps the outcome exciting.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm completely convinced btw that Show and Reigns could have a quality singles match if given enough time. They showed that tonight but the finish was pointless.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I just hope they let Brock/Rollins go at it tbh, and not spend most of the match just ganging up on Cena.

I guess this is the closest we will get to a straight Lesnar/Rollins match, so. Although, there is a bigger chance of Brock dropping the belt at Rumble now?


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

IF Brock is dropping the belt @ Rumble

Bryan vs Cena/Rollins for the WWEWHC and Reigns/Lesnar is what they will likely do. They know Reigns/Rollins = NO Buys (and already proven to be a dud along with Reigns beating him clean couple of times). Without Ambrose in that match nobody will give a damn and its a complete no sell.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wait, Rollins was added to the WWE WHC match (I haven't seen Raw yet but it's not like I care that much anyway)? FUCK YES, a reason to get excited for that Goddamn match :mark::mark::mark:

Can you imagine the possibility of having Rollins holding the WWE WHC AND the MITB briefcase? That'd be a first time ever, I'd be genuinely intrigued to see how they would pull that off.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Dude, Rollins can win the title at The Rumble, lose it to Cena the following the night on RAW, cash in MITB and win it back!

Or, Cena can with it at the Rumble and Rollins can cash in either the same night or the following night on RAW and win it.

Either way, Cena's going to be a 16 time world champion :cena


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

OR Lesnar simply retains .


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

and defends against Bryan at Mania.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

If Rollins has been added to do anything but eat the pin so Brock/Cena are protected, I'd be surprised.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I want Brock/Bryan. :shrug Shoot me.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Yeah I don't see the problem with Brock-Bryan.

If Brock is leaving I don't think they care if he loses to Bryan and how that will make him look.

I don't think Rollins or Cena should win this match unless they have some wild card up their sleeve for what the Mania Main Event will be...either way no matter who goes over so much can change from the Rumble, to the Raw's to Fast Lane, to more Raw's before Wrestlemania.

Nothing should be set in stone a few weeks before Wrestlemania in all likelyhood.


As for the Ambulance match, it shocked me. They really delivered a good match and didn't try and go all out like the other times.

First really good match of 2015


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Watching Raw made me realise there certainly isn't a glass ceiling/floor on Cesaro's ride to career hell. Though my friend quipping "El Kiddante" towards Tyson's getup made that segment somewhat bearable.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Cena to win the title, Bryan to win the Rumble and Cena finally gets his win back from Bryan :vince


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

I don't see them adding Rollins to the match if they didn't plan on putting the belt on him. Cena probably wins the match, Brock destroys him and Rollins cashes in.

IF Rollins is going into Mania as champion there's a lot of options for them.

Bryan- Makes sense, Rollins is The Authority's guy and Bryan never really finished his story with them. Imagine these two going at it for the belt at Mania :mark

Reigns- These two really don't have any chemistry but they're pushing Reigns no matter what and there's a lot of history between them

Ambrose- Everyone wants to see Ambrose finally beat Rollins but they're doing their best to destroy Ambrose instead of giving him a title win at Mania

Ambrose/Reigns three way- Needs no explanation

Orton- Ready made feud, Orton could return as a surprise winner of the Rumble


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The elimination chamber match from last year is actually pretty good. Bryan/Bray from the Rumble rocked too. It's actually shameful how far Bray has fallen. I don't think I've watched a single match from the Ambrose/Bray program. They lost me when it started for absolutely no reason at all. Funny how Wyatt/Cena started the same way but a year ago it was fresh, now it's just redundant. Anyway, I'm enjoying working my way through 2014. I know it gets hated on in this thread but things only really started to get shit after Summerslam. Let's all hope 2015 can be better. At least with Rollins in the title match I now give a damn even if he's just there to eat the fall at least it's something different.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Steven Regal vs. Barbarian (Main Event 3/7/93)
Steven Regal vs. Ricky Steamboat (Main Event 8/1/93)
Steven Regal vs. Ricky Steamboat (No DQ) (Main Event 8/8/93)
Steven Regal, Paul Orndorff & Max Payne vs. Ricky Steamboat, 2 Cold Scorpio & Marcus Bagwell (WCWSN 8/14/93)
Steven Regal vs. Ricky Steamboat (Handheld 8/19/93)
Steven Regal vs. 2 Cold Scorpio (Main Event 8/29/93)
Steven Regal vs. Ricky Steamboat (Fall Brawl 9/19/93)
Steven Regal vs. Ricky Steamboat (WCWSN 9/25/93)
Steven Regal vs. Arn Anderson (WCWSN 10/9/93)
Steven Regal vs. Davey Boy Smith (Havoc 10/24/93)
Steven Regal vs. Shinya Hashimoto (NJ 4/16/95)
Steven Regal & 2 Cold Scorpio vs. Hiroshi Hase & Kensuke Sasaki (NJ 4/23/95)
Steven Regal vs. Sting (WCWSN 9/23/95)
Steven Regal & Bobby Eaton vs. Macho Man & Sting (WCWSN 9/9/95)
Steven Regal vs. Chris Benoit (9/23/95) (NJPW)
Steven Regal vs. Belfast Bruiser (Parking Lot Brawl) (Nitro 4/29/96)

Watched so far on my Regal binge.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Steamboat/Regal Fall Brawl :banderas


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Think it was the first time I've seen it tbh. Gotta be one of the best matches for the company. I also liked the Main Event 08/01/93 match with Steamboat, time limit draw but was really good. 

Match with Scorpio was good too.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

That Scorpio match is great. Scorpio is the fucking man.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Brock said:


> Steven Regal vs. Barbarian (Main Event 3/7/93)
> Steven Regal vs. Ricky Steamboat (Main Event 8/1/93)
> Steven Regal vs. Ricky Steamboat (No DQ) (Main Event 8/8/93)
> Steven Regal, Paul Orndorff & Max Payne vs. Ricky Steamboat, 2 Cold Scorpio & Marcus Bagwell (WCWSN 8/14/93)
> ...




I have seen a quarter of these,. please sir can you dish out star ratings or out of 10 so I know which ones to watch, I only want to watch the matches that could be considered borderline four stars or higher for my list and all.

Thanks for the dates though and suggestion.

I imagine you've seen the Benoit series from Velocity (The two 05 and 1 06 matches can all be found on DM, hell even No Mercy 06) they all end the exact same but are each a little different in the middle, and fucking classic.

Not a single match under four stars there.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

machomark said:


> I have seen a quarter of these,. please sir can you dish out star ratings or out of 10 so I know which ones to watch, I only want to watch the matches that could be considered borderline four stars or higher for my list and all.
> 
> Thanks for the dates though and suggestion.
> 
> ...


Not sure on star ratings TBH, always find it difficult to rate TV matches, but
out of the ones ive watched so far, id recommend these the most:

Steven Regal vs. Ricky Steamboat (Main Event 8/1/93)
Steven Regal vs. 2 Cold Scorpio (Main Event 8/29/93)
Steven Regal vs. Chris Benoit (9/23/95) (NJPW)
Steven Regal vs. Ricky Steamboat (Fall Brawl 9/19/93)
Steven Regal & 2 Cold Scorpio vs. Hiroshi Hase & Kensuke Sasaki (NJ 4/23/95)
Steven Regal vs. Davey Boy Smith (Havoc 10/24/93)
Steven Regal vs. Shinya Hashimoto (NJ 4/16/95)
Steven Regal vs. Belfast Bruiser (Parking Lot Brawl) (Nitro 4/29/96)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Regal and Steamboat have another match on 8/8/93. It's good, but IIRC a NO DQ match where they don't really capitalize on the gimmick. I've always thought their best match was 9/25/93, > Fall Brawl.

Zep have you seen Regal/Finlay 4/13/96, Regal/Psicosis 12/16/96 (IMO the #2 Nitro match ever), Regal/Ultimo Slamboree 97, and the awesome Regal/Zbyszko trilogy? Regal/Zbyszko 5/28/94 is a match I'd absolutely call one of the best matches in WCW history. I see the argument for it being honestly Regal's best match, too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Regal and Steamboat have another match on 8/8/93. It's good, but IIRC a NO DQ match where they don't really capitalize on the gimmick. I've always thought their best match was 9/25/93, > Fall Brawl.
> 
> Zep have you seen Regal/Finlay 4/13/96, Regal/Psicosis 12/16/96 (IMO the #2 Nitro match ever), Regal/Ultimo Slamboree 97, and the awesome Regal/Zbyszko trilogy? Regal/Zbyszko 5/28/94 is a match I'd absolutely call one of the best matches in WCW history. I see the argument for it being honestly Regal's best match, too.


Yeah I watched that NO DQ match too earlier, but not a big fan of it, mainly because I had to double check it was listed as a non DQ.

Havn't got around to those others yet, just watching a bunch of select ones from Will's Regal comp, although I did see the Ultimo match not long ago when I watched through WCW from 1997. Awesome match. I'll try and fit some more in later, and post the list I've what I have seen.

There's a couple of tag matches with Austin next i think to watch.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

2014 only gets hated on in here because almost everything that took place after Summerslam was awful. There were bright spots here and there but too much of it made no sense, was repetitive, or just flat out pissed off a big part of the audience. Injuries piling up didn't help. The first 4 months or so were really damn good though, that's for sure.

Really glad to see the positive reactions to last night's Ambulance match. I encourage the rest of you folks to check it out sometime too. It's nothing like their other matches and makes you actually care about what you're watching. 

That Cesaro and Kidd segment last night made me mark, then they started dancing with the Rosebuds and I became embarrassed. :lol I thought they'd attack him too...


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Steamboat/Regal Fall Brawl :banderas


For all of his otherwise crazyness, The Body is gold on commentary. Edouard Carpentier reference :banderas 

Commentary generally is ace in the 80's/early 90's - Brain, Gorilla, Piper, Macho, Ventura, JR, and early Shoavoilinnimme isn't bad either - earning them chops. Now I'm ready to Elvis my TV set next time "Lariat-o" is said by a commentator who isn't Japanese. Who is good? Excalibur & Chuck Taylor from PWG are at least entertaining. Rene is hot, so I'm at least optimistic but who is good? 

2014 was running along really well, I thought, for the first half of the year - 10 or more ****+ matches, and was on track to surpass last year's momentum. It ended up not doing that, but still good if inconsistent. Had several matches this year at ****1/2 stars - Wyatts/Shield @ EC, Wyatt/Bryan @ RR, Cesaro/Zayn @ Arrival, Charlotte/Sasha @ Revolution - and so it's really a "take your pick" scenario for me for WWE MOTY. So.. I'll take the ladies because *DAMN~!* I hadn't been that hyped after a Diva's match been since forever.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Still think the Bayley match is superior and Charlotte's best :side:

God, in late 2012/early 2013 I didn't like Charlotte. At all. She's significantly improved since, and may improve even more. Shouldn't be surprised though - this is the GOAT's daughter we're talking about here. But then again, that same kind of choice of words should've applied to David too, right? 8*D


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

JustJoel said:


> Now I'm ready to Elvis my TV set next time "Lariat-o" is said by a commentator who isn't Japanese.


When Matt Striker did that during Christian/Zeke I was like...I was like...something...



me from write-up said:


> Have I mentioned fuck Matt Striker? Zeke was busting out tons of cool clubs and clotheslines in the match, but there was one in particular that Christian sold like a cruiserweight, and suddenly every other clothesline and club was wiped from my mind because of how insane it was. Then Matt Striker goes ‘oh-HO-HOH LARIAT-OH’. Who the fuck are you, worm? L-“Lariato”? Are you fucking kidding me? What pompous brand of puro fan were you aiming to please with that line? I literally said aloud ‘oh you fucking cunt’ when he spewed that mulch. Thanks for ruining that spot, dick.


oh, yeah, that's what I was like


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> When Matt Striker did that during Christian/Zeke I was like...I was like...something...
> 
> 
> 
> oh, yeah, that's what I was like



Have you watched WK9 yet? Stryker wasn't QUITE as horrible as he normally is but he was still pretty bad. He even said something to the effect of "NJPW style matches like to start slow and work themselves into a crescendo" that nearly had me chucking my iPad through my television set. That fucker could ruin a Flair/Funk match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Striker's commentary at WK9 was great. He covered for JR's mistakes and shat up when he needed to. Hopefully he commentates for NJPW more often.

That Steamboat/Regal match at Fall Brawl has to be a contender for best PPV opener in WCW. Certainly one of my favorite Steamboat performances too. Ricky did things with that rib injury that I did not know was possible to do. Regal was great too when he attacked the rib, and Ricky responding by targeting Regal's arm was cool. Only complaints I have about that match was that Regal did not sell the arm work very well, and his offense got kinda boring at times. Haven't seen their other matches. Or maybe I have, but I don't remember. Off to the shortlist they go.

The rest of that PPV was a sight to behold. And not in a good way. After a terrific opener, we get the Nasty Boys fighting Arn and Roma for 25 minutes. That match was so bad that even Arn phoned it in. ARN PHONED IT IN. And things only got worse from there. Two D-list actors wrestled each other for some reason. Rick Rude and Ric Flair fought each other in a title match, and there is a good reason why nobody remembers it. Terrible match where both guys don't do anything besides restholds. And if that wasn't bad enough, the main event was the Shockmaster War Games match. For as much as I shit on Bill Watts, the guy in charge after him in 1993 might have been worse.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Have you watched WK9 yet? Stryker wasn't QUITE as horrible as he normally is but he was still pretty bad. He even said something to the effect of "NJPW style matches like to start slow and work themselves into a crescendo" that nearly had me chucking my iPad through my television set. That fucker could ruin a Flair/Funk match.


I haven't watched a New Japan match that happened from now since...2008? :lmao

Striker's commentating? Yeah, I think I'll keep it to Japanese when I watch.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You mean you have skipped out of Tomohiro Ishii matches in favor of 2010 WWE and Kamala?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'e watched enough modern (semi-recent-ish) puro to know that it's not something I should give priority. Blame KENTA, Marufuji, and Kanemaru. Ishii at least has his fans that are into the kind of thing I'm into (and don't like the kind of puro I don't like), so if I started he'd probably be the first guy I'd look at. Other than Sakuraba. Who here has seen the Sakuraba/Tamura stuff?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think we talked about Sakuraba/Tamura last year. I can't really blame you for being turned off thanks to the NOAH juniors. Nothing like video game wrestling. Kinda surprised though to hear this from you because of the current craze over NJPW at the moment. I imagined you to be a big fan of Suzuki and Tanahashi among others.

But back to the real issue at hand. Sakuraba. Did we ever talk about the Kanehara matches? Their Christmas match had an ankle lock that would make Rousimar Palhares cringe.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I've never liked Suzuki and consider him overrated. I completely admit most of it is on me and he can definitely be an awesome wrestler, but I've been annoyed with him pretty frequently. Tanahashi I've only seen from 2006-2007 I think. Thought he was fine, I think? I should have some thoughts somewhere but I cant even post them here b/c we aren't actually allowed to talk about Japanese wrestling in here.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

1998 DX just reformed as heels. Matches are actually starting to be given some time with actual finishes, is Russo out of creative by October 99 or do I have wait some more?

HHH had a solid title defense against Al Snow on Smackdown and the NAO tag match versus Rock and Austin leading to the reformation was good.

The comedy in some of these segments are just too funny. Mark Henry embracing his "sex addiction" has had me in stitches. And is it bad that I find the Big Boss Man feud with Big Show hysterical? From the fake death announcement by the fake cop Boss Man hired to him trying so hard to be a heel, this is too much comedy - most likely unintentional because only someone with a twisted sense of humor like me would actually find this funny. Although it does lighten the mood to know that Big Show's dad had died prior to this, so it was purely a fictional storyline.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> 1998 DX just reformed as heels. Matches are actually starting to be given some time with actual finishes, is Russo out of creative by October 99 or do I have wait some more?
> 
> HHH had a solid title defense against Al Snow on Smackdown and the NAO tag match versus Rock and Austin leading to the reformation was good.
> 
> The comedy in some of these segments are just too funny. Mark Henry embracing his "sex addiction" has had me in stitches. And is it bad that I find the Big Boss Man feud with Big Show hysterical? From the fake death announcement by the fake cop Boss Man hired to him trying so hard to be a heel, this is too much comedy - most likely unintentional because only someone with a twisted sense of humor like me would actually find this funny. Although it does lighten the mood to know that Big Show's dad had died prior to this, so it was purely a fictional storyline.


Yeah I think Russo leaves around September when Smackdown became a show. I remember being confused as a kid when DX reformed as heels. Watch what happens with the NAO in the following months. There's a big tag match between them and the Rock and Sock Connection at Armageddon that was treated like a main event match. 

Bossman's everything in 1999 was hilarious. Did you ever see his poem to Big Show? :lmao. I have no clue why this was a title program when The Rock was toiling in the midcard, but it at least had some comedic merit. I think I remember the guy that dethroned Big Show for the title to get a huge pop after winning. I think after this program, Bossman becomes a part-timer. The title feud was probably a going-away present.

One thing that I did not notice as a kid that I did when I went through the AE shows was how infrequent the commercials occurred during matches. I think we got one in a tag match on Smackdown in 1999, another one in 2000, and then by late 2001, they became a "thing". Even the lengthy matches like Austin/Benoit and the Grandmaster Sexay tag match had no commercials. I don't think it's possible now in today's television climate with more commercials in place, but it's definitely something we all took for granted during the AE.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah, commercials are nonexistent during matches. Although there's no chance for 99% of matches since they last 3-5 minutes at most. I did notice that Austin vs Benoit had no commercials last time I watched it which is pretty sweet, same with the Power Trip tag. I do remember a commercial break during TLC III, though. Nowadays even if a match is 10 minutes, there'll probably be 2 commercial breaks at least.

There's one thing Smackdown has the advantage on when it comes to commercial breaks and it's the fact that the action lasts about 10-15 seconds before they return due to it being taped. Noticed it in the 2003 editions that exist on the internet. The announcers talk about going to commercial then it's back on to the match immediately and they are quiet for a minute b/c they're not "on" yet so you miss little to nothing from the match.

Boss Man might be one of the MVPs in 1999. Just everything about him is funny regardless of what the intention is. From being hanged by Taker (after a humorously bad match) to the Al Snow feud and now this Big Show feud.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

One thing I really disliked about Russo (and I hate do bash him because so many people do) is how he made Raw's feel bigger then PPV events.

The guy was great at giving everybody something and working towards the PPV but way too many shows in 1999, different Raw's and Smackdown's had better moods.

I remember that NAO/Rock-Austin tag, Stone Cold's last TV match for quite some time I believe.


-----



Finished Disc 1 of the Factions set.


The in-between matches is pretty good, it doesen't go very long but they show neccessary clips and say some good things.

Match quality on disc one is pretty brutal compared to the next two so I won't even rate the matches.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm watching _NXT Takeover: Fatal 4-Way_ right now and some of this shit is just ridiculous. They billed Bull Dempsey at 6'6"? No chance. Baron Corbin at 6'8" and 275 pounds!? So he's bigger than Triple H, Sheamus, and Randy Orton? Wow. Idk why but this has annoyed the hell outta me.  I watched the first hour tonight and they packed a ton of shit in there. Most of it was pretty useless, but it happened. SAWFT



machomark said:


> Finished Disc 1 of the Factions set.
> 
> 
> The in-between matches is pretty good, it doesen't go very long but they show neccessary clips and say some good things.
> ...


Damn, really? I thought the WCW tag would be good for sure and the Corporate Rumble, WCCW tag, and Flag match all looked fun.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The flag match and WCCW tag match rule. Everything else on that first disc isn't good. They completely botched the Dangerous Alliance choice. All the great matches to pick and they chose that one. Smh. Disc 2 is even worse. Actually now that I look through the match listing, that entire set is abominable. Why would anyone willingly watch that set? Why do people even watch these things anyways? Everyone knows things like that Attitude Era "documentary" or the Monday Night Wars are going to be filled with propaganda and lies, but you guys keep on buying and watching material from the same company you curse.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*New Years Revolution 2007*

The event best known for HHH's second quad tear! Yey!

Also, what is it with these 07 PPV's not having proper intros? You know, so I can screen cap em and use them for the main image of the post?  No Mercy didn't even HAVE one, and here the screen disappears do damn quickly I couldn't get a decent shot in 6 attempts so I gave up . Yeah I could still get one with some extra work, but it's only a sodding picture .

Wait, what the feck? They did the little "Raw presents NYR" thingy with the logo flashing on and off the screen in seconds, then we get introduced to the show by JR, he tells us the IC title match is happening first and... video package for the PPV? WHAT? WHAT ARE YOU DOING?


*Johnny Nitro Vs Jeff Hardy - WWE Intercontinental Championship Steel Cage Match*

MELINA :mark:.

When did Nitro change to Morrison? 

Morrison. Morrisons. Was supposed to go to Morrisons today for some shopping. But my friend had to go into work and now he can't take me cos he finishes after the shop shuts . Good job I went to Aldi this morning and got some food from there. Shall have to wait until like, Wednesday now for Morrisons. They got some stuff on offer I want. Shit, actually, that fucks up my plans for tea tonight. Got some chicken in Aldi and was getting a BBQ chicken cook in the bag mix from Morrisons to have tonight. Now I can't have that. Bah. Guess I'll just make a chili instead. Shit. Didn't buy garlic bread for it. I guess I COULD walk over to Aldi again but... it's cold outside . The fuck am I gonna have for tea tonight then?

Nitro and Hardy are having a match btw. Inside a cage. Nothing really noteworthy so far. Both man have dropkicked each other into the cage. That's about it.

Back suplex off the top rope. Looked like they went out of their way to fall from as little height as possible despite being on the top rope lol. Suppose I shouldn't blame them, I certainly wouldn't want to fall that high. My back would snap faster than a Slim Jim.

And we have another cage spot. Followed by... another cage spot... and oh hey, look... another cage spot. With practically NOTHING in between them. I so LOVE that about wrestling :side:.

Ooops, seems that I ended that cage spot sentence too early. ANOTHER FUCKING CAGE SPOT WITH NOTHING BETWEEN IT AND THE OTHERS.

:mark: Best part of the match just happened. Hardy tried to climb out and MELINA whipped the part of Hardy's fingers that were coming through the cage with her metal studded belt :mark:. Kinda sad when that's the best part of the match so far, but then again it's still fecking awesome. Melina was a great manager.

Shit, what was that? Oh, another damn cage spot. They are literally just taking turns at it.

:mark: Melinda blocking the referee from opening the door :mark:.

Finish is similar to X-Pac/Jericho at... No Mercy(?) 2000. Jeff wins and retains his title.

Well, while I didn't think this was good, it also was kinda harmless too. I'm not exactly screaming at my screen or anything, so that's a positive. Right?

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


Rated RKO interview. They are going to put a PAINFUL AND DEFINITIVE END to DX tonight. Ha, they kinda do .


*The Highlanders Vs The World's Greatest Tag Team Vs Hacksaw Jim Duggan & Super Crazy Vs Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch Vs Cryme Tyme - Tag Team Turmoil Match*

A bonus match! Better be good. Starting with The Highlanders. Well, that didn't last long.

WGTT do a wonderful job carrying the Highlanders here. Their offense looks great, good double teaming and all round good tag work. They dominate the match and eliminate the Highlanders.

:lmao Duggan and Super Crazy? Who the fuck put that team together? 

Fuck me, Shelton nearly caves Duggan's face in with a running knee. Damn.

Lawler proves that he isn't even in Heenan's league when it comes to being a colour commentator. JR mentioned that Duggan went to college and Lawler doesn't laugh once, never mind for the rest of the match.

German suplex to Crazy and that's that. Cade & Murdoch waste no time coming out and jumping the WGTT from behind while they are still down and hurting. 

Murdoch boots Shelton in the face so fucking hard I forgot about that running knee to Duggan. Shelton is dead. Or he should be because that was brutal.

Hass comes in from the hot tag and looks damn impressive. He looked great when he returned in 06 from... whatever happened to him. Shame they did that bullshitty impressions gimmick with him. How many people have had that gimmick btw?

Cade and Murdoch get the win, and out come Cryme Tyme. Crazy to think that JTG is no longer with the WWE now . 

In fact, is anyone still employed by the WWE from this match so far? Guessing just Duggan on a legends contract? And of course unfortunately Lance Cade passed away. In fact we can go even further and add the opening match to that too. Nitro, Hardy and Melina are all no longer employed by WWE now either. Looking at the rest of the card and hardly anyone is. And it's not like this is a fucking early WM from the 80's, this is from 2007. It's 2015. Depending on who else is in this tag match, only TWO people on this card are still employed by WWE as active competitors. Cena and Orton. Crazy.

Ok, so Cryme Tyme are the last team, and they end up winning it all.

Enjoyed WGTT carrying The Highlanders, and then WGTT Vs Cade & Murdoch. Everything else was kinda blargh.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


Oh god they set up the Rosie O'Donald Vs Donald Trump "match" in a backstage segment. Coach's tongue smells like shit due to being so far up Vince's arse.

ROM SIMMONS :mark: DAMM.


*Kenny Dykstra Vs Ric Flair*

No thanks.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Mickie James Vs Victoria - WWE Women's Championship Match*

I'll give this a watch. Not often I bother with women's matches, but I like Mickie and Victoria has been built up as a dominant monster for this match so it could be pretty good.

Mmmmm fresh cream and strawberry jam finger doughnut. 

Nice deep arm drags from Mickie. MICKIE STEAMBOAT~!

Victoria is great as being a vicious bitch inside the ring. Beating the fuck out of Mickie, and trying to rip her head off in a submission hold too :mark:. She seems to like targeting the heads and faces of other divas, and she's doing her best to smash in Mickie's face here.

Hell Victoria even starts shit with Lillian at ringside lol. Reminds me of when she first came into WWE and was attacking all the big boobed blonde women before going after Trish .

SECOND ROPE MOONSAULT~! That missed though, and Mickie might be able to take advantage!!!

Mickie just fucking DECKED Victoria :mark:.

Melina has shown up because... I have no idea. Did I miss something? She tries to help Victoria win the title, but former victims of Victoria, Maria and Candice, show up to make sure she isn't successful!

DDT from Mickie, and she's still the women's champion!

Good match, glad I decided to not skip it! Mickie with 2 great women's title matches in a row at NYR (06 and 07 lol)!

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*DX Vs Rated RKO - World Tag Team Championship Match*

Alright, time to get this one out of the way. It gets pimped to fuck, and I've never personally quite gotten the love for it. Kinda like a certain other tag match were HHH tears his quad lol.

This one starts on the rampway as one big fucking fight. DX are out for BLOOD, not tag titles here. Man, how stupid are the rules of wrestling when you actually think about it?

Jr mentions that the bell hasn't even rung yet, and King chimes in with "because they haven't gotten into the ring yet". So they can do whatever the fuck they want atm until they get into the ring. Imagine if that rule was similar for other sports? Before boxing or an MMA fight, one guy attacks another guy before they enter the ring/octagon? LOL. Or how about in Football (or soccer for you weirdos  ), a team is coming down the tunnel to get on the pitch and the other team jumps them from behind? BUT IT'S OK BECAUSE THEY AREN'T ON THE PITCH YET AND THE WHISTLE HASN'T BLOWN TO START THE MATCH~! :lmao

The match really slows down once it actually starts, but DX remain in control and spend most of their time just blasting Orton in the face over and over again. Nothing special whatsoever, but I kinda like that they ain't doing anything fancy because they just want to HURT their opponents. Sure they could have done it in a more interesting way, but come on, it's HBK and HHH lol.

EDGE CLIPS HHH'S KNEE~! The left one though. Should go for the right one, it's at a breaking point already 8*D.

Well before Edge and Orton can really get back into the match and work over HHH's leg... hot tag to HBK. Still waiting for this match to impress me tbh. I might not be the biggest fan of the 2 Man Power Trip Vs Chris x 2 match, but I'd still call that a great match.

ORTON MURDERED HBK WITH A CLOTHESLINE~!

I think that MAYBE the match is going to finally get into a good groove following that. HBK down and hurting and at the mercy of Rated RKO... but second later HBK takes both opponents out of the ring and dives over the ropes onto them. FFS lol.

TAG TITLE BELT TO HBK'S HEAD~! Hopefully THAT will be the turning point in the match. Yup, HBK is busted open. I did like how HHH saw it and just flew over to deck Orton lol. Far too often the referee gets in the way, but here HHH got to Orton and took him down before Elias (the referee) could stop him.

Wow, was a whole 4 days ago when I started this ramble and was complaining about Morrisons. Now I'm sat here with some food I got at Morrisons when I was finally able to get there .

DOUBLE IRISH CURSE~! Wonder if Sheamus got the idea for the move here . Or maybe he was already using it on the Indies? I don't know. 

So HBK gets his back worked over for a while, and it's fine. Not setting the world on fire or anything.

HOT TAG TO HHH~! QUAD TEAR~!

:lmao I respect HHH for trying to stay in the match, but that RKO on him was hilarious. He crumples to the floor before Orton can even jump in the air .

SUPERKICK TO ORTON~! I could watch Orton getting kicked in the face all day. Take that how you want .

PEDIGREE~! Kinda. Again, much respect for HHH trying to keep going, but that was just awful.

HBK saves the end by decking the referee and taking out Rated RKO with chairs. Huh, looks like they cut the part out where Orton runs in with a chair and is clueless as fuck because he doesn't know what to do with HHH being injured . 

Fucking hell, HHH continues to beat up Orton and Edge, and even hits a Pedigree on the announce table! No selling the shit out of that quad tear lol!

Good match overall, but still nothing special. Not even close to being one of the top tag matches ever. Not even the best tag match on PPV in 2007. Overrated as fuck, but still worth a watch and something I could sit through again if I wanted to.

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Carlito Vs Chris Masters*

As much as I like Masters, I cannot sit through a Carlito match. Especially him as a babyface :lmao.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*John Cena Vs Umaga - WWE Championship Match*

Haven't seen this match in years. Perhaps not since it first happened. I don't care much for their LMS match at the RR, unlike most people. This match however gets a ton of praise from people though, so I am very interested in finally seeing it after all this time.

Umaga is still undefeated at this point, and Cena is what, half a year into his year title run?

Damn, Cena is a terrible puncher lol. They look ridiculous.

Cena thankfully doesn't get many shots in before Umaga shows his power and absolutely dominates the champion. Both guys do a great job here; Umaga with his power offence, and Cena with bumping and selling.

Did have to :lmao when Cena tried to slam Umaga though. FFS, Umaga isn't exactly Yokozuna. We've seen Cena AA Big Show multiple times, yet he can't do a simple scoop Slam to Umaga? Bullshit lol.

:mark: that rolling wheel kick to Cena looked fucking tremendous. Love when big guys use that. Viscera was awesome at it, and it just looks so impressive coming from guys that are fat.

Another "Cena can't lift Umaga" spot, this time with an AA attempt. At least this time they can make the excuse that Cena is fucked from the beatdown. He hasn't taken that much punishment before trying that slam earlier though. LOL. Anyway, the spot looked great, looked like Umaga landed right on Cena's head.

After that spot, Umaga immediately targets the neck of Cena and he looks like he's trying to fucking SNAP IT :mark:.

CENA COMEBACK~!

Oh look, NOW he can lift up Umaga and hit that odd suplex thingy he does. BUT HE COULDN'T SLAM THE FUCKER EARLY IN THE MATCH?!?! 

Another AA attempt, but Cena's back and neck is killing him so he definitely can't do it here. But he could hit that back suplex thingy like 10 seconds earlier? 

Umaga is great here at cutting Cena off, either through sheer power, or simply capitalising on Cena being too beat up to hit certain moves. 

And then Cena wins with a roll-up. A fucking ROLL-UP. He couldn't AA Umaga, but he was able to keep his shoulders down for a 3 count on a fucking roll-up?

Well, honestly don't like that ending, BUT the rest of the match was pretty great. So much better than their LMS match. SO. MUCH. BETTER.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 7*​


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The flag match and WCCW tag match rule. Everything else on that first disc isn't good. They completely botched the Dangerous Alliance choice. All the great matches to pick and they chose that one. Smh. Disc 2 is even worse. Actually now that I look through the match listing, that entire set is abominable. Why would anyone willingly watch that set? Why do people even watch these things anyways? Everyone knows things like that Attitude Era "documentary" or the Monday Night Wars are going to be filled with propaganda and lies, but you guys keep on buying and watching material from the same company you curse.


I thought it looked much better than most of the other listings they've put out in the past year. Disc 3 has the 6-man from Backlash '09 and I _know _that's good. There's enough on the rest of the set that at least looks good or interesting to me on paper (that I don't own already) to consider a purchase. The listing looks much better than stuff like True Giants or Attitude Era Vol. 2, etc.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I'm watching _NXT Takeover: Fatal 4-Way_ right now and some of this shit is just ridiculous. They billed Bull Dempsey at 6'6"? No chance. Baron Corbin at 6'8" and 275 pounds!? So he's bigger than Triple H, Sheamus, and Randy Orton? Wow. Idk why but this has annoyed the hell outta me.  I watched the first hour tonight and they packed a ton of shit in there. Most of it was pretty useless, but it happened. SAWFT
> 
> 
> Damn, really? I thought the WCW tag would be good for sure and the Corporate Rumble, WCCW tag, and Flag match all looked fun.



Yeah, sorry I forgot to mention that the the tag was good and the flag match was also, it's just I've seen the tag match so many times and there are way better options they could of used for the Hart Foundation so I was a bit dissapointed. None the less the first disc was still OKAY and did a good job looking at some factions.

The corporate Rumble is good for nostalgia I guess but it's not really a GOOD match at all, think attitude era Raw's before the Wrestling got GOOD....it had a fun ending though.

Disc 2 and 3 look a lot better.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

More Regal watching:

Steven Regal vs. Arn Anderson (SuperBrawl 2/20/94)
Steven Regal & Steve Austin vs. Dustin Rhodes & Brian Pillman (WWW 3/5/94)
Steven Regal & Steve Austin vs. Ricky Steamboat & Arn Anderson (WCWSN 3/5/94)
Steven Regal & Ric Flair vs. Sting & Ricky Steamboat (Handheld 3/16/94)
Steven Regal vs. Ric Flair (Marquis of Queensbury Cup) (WWW 4/30 – 5/28/94)
Steven Regal vs. Larry Zbyszko (Slamboree 5/22/94)
Steven Regal vs. Larry Zbyszko (WCWSN 5/28/94)
Steven Regal vs. Larry Zbyszko (Clash 6/23/94)
Steven Regal & Steve Austin vs. Ricky Steamboat & Johnny B. Badd (Main Event 8/14/94)
Steven Regal vs. Antonio Inoki (Clash 8/24/94)
Steven Regal vs. Belfast Bruiser (WCWSN 4/13/96)
Steven Regal vs. Belfast Bruiser (WCWSN 4/27/96)
Steven Regal vs. Sting (WCWSN 5/25/96)
Steven Regal vs. Sting (GAB 6/16/96)
Steven Regal vs. Psychosis (WCWSN 11/16/96)
Steven Regal vs. Psicosis (Nitro 12/16/96)


 That Zbysko Saturday Night match :lenny Still love the Sting GAB match, and im a mark for Sting as you all know by now, but fuck it's all Regal greatness in this one. Talk
about how to control and lead a match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

> Steven Regal vs. Antonio Inoki (Clash 8/24/94)


You poor bastard...


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Brock said:


> Steven Regal vs. Psychosis (WCWSN 11/16/96)


WHAT? WHERE-WH- WHAT??


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> WHAT? WHERE-WH- WHAT??


Don't get too excited, it's not very good. Write this about it during the Dub See Dub Poll

Steven Regal vs. Psychosis – Saturday Night 16/11/1996


Nothing to really write about for the majority of this match. Just the usual back and forth stuff, with arm work early on causing both men to do those rolling and flipping reversals of it and shit, then both of them going back and forth with a sunset flip pin about 10 times. At least Dusty and Tony were making me laugh on commentary, especially when Dusty starts talking about spreading your legs and shit .

Regal gets a short control segment which is ok, nothing that good but it was nice to see Regal desperate to actually get a win before the time was up, instead of waiting for the time to run out and keep his belt like he would have done during his run a couple of years ago.

Not really sure why this match is on the set.

Rating: 3/4*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yup. Nothing at all really, same with that Sting Saturday Night match too tbh, just a quick, short match that had not alot in it. GAB more than made up for that of course.

Did Inoki wrestle in WCW before that Regal match btw?


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Hey guys, I try to post here as often as possible, but between working on the blog, starting to freelance, college and social life I often just glance. However, speaking of the blog, I need some help.

I want to know what you guys are interested in, and I posted this in this thread because this is where I did/will frequent the most. I need you guys to vote *here!* telling me who you want me to write about (and if you don't like any of them, feel free to tweet me your answer, same as my WF name).

Also, to show you what kind of "in-depth" post I would be doing, I did one on Minoru Suzuki, which you can see *here!*. I hope you guys interact because I am genuinely curious to see what people want. Thank you for any and all cooperation and have a nice day!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Did mean to add, I would liked to have seen Regal/Bret Hart.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Just watched Regal/Steamboat Fall Brawl 93 in my PPV watch. An amazing match in a pretty bad show overall.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Surprised that the Regal/Windham match wasn't on the set. The match wasn't good, but it was Regal's first major match in WCW.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

I watched Regal vs Psychosis from Nitro 13 days before Starrcade so 12/16/96 I believe, since you bastards got me into a Regal mood, not that I'm that mad I am more likely to go on a technical binge then any other style.

I thought the work in this one was quite the match.

One thing I appreciated about WCW was no matter how much the commentary focused on stories or main events of an upcoming PPV, they definitely dived into the match and discussed what was going on. Obviously not as much as one would like but it's still nice.

I always get a kick out of watching the crowd look bored during amazing WCW matches in the mid-late 90's. I just want to scream and say DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE FUCK YOU ARE WITNESSING RIGHT NOW? But then I reallize the casual fan at live events don't really CARE all that much about "WRESTLING"...


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Disagree with your assessment of WCW commentary. During the nWo days, they were insufferable. Schiavone was the Michael Cole of his day. He knew nothing about wrestling. Zbyszko was the JBL of his day, but somehow he was worse. All he knew was how to yell. Disgusted that he came from the streets of Chicago. Dusty was the Booker T of his day, which compared to the other guys is not a bad thing. I like Tenay, but he was really a third wheel. And Heenan. Love the man, but he had this annoying problem with his commentary where he would joke around in the wrong times. The jokes he tried to make for instance in the Bret/Benoit Owen tribute match was classless. Only one man on that list actually called matches, and he happened to only be good for cruiserweight matches.


----------



## Hexder (Jan 8, 2015)

what about brook lesnar has he come back in the ring...??


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Surprised that the Regal/Windham match wasn't on the set. The match wasn't good, but it was Regal's first major match in WCW.


The 93-04-27 match? What was bad about it?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Surprised that the Regal/Windham match wasn't on the set. The match wasn't good, but it was Regal's first major match in WCW.





Rah said:


> The 93-04-27 match? What was bad about it?


Is that the 04/24/1993 Power Hour match? That one is on the set.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Sorry, my set had the date wrong. It's the 17/04 Worldwide match, so I'd assume it's the one you have. It's not as great as the later Windham/Scorpio match, but it's still really good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

With NYR 07 finally out of the way, next on my 07 pile is Armageddon. Can I get some STARS~! and thoughts of the show overall please? Curious to know what others think of it .

Looking at the card I'm actually mostly interested in watching it. Big fan of the triple threat, Hardy/HHH on paper should be great because they had wonderful chemistry, Beth/Mickie should be a good divas match given who is in it, and HBK/Kennedy has a chance to be solid (I love their Raw match on the first HD show a few weeks after this).


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

#ROOT said:


> With NYR 07 finally out of the way, next on my 07 pile is Armageddon. Can I get some STARS~! and thoughts of the show overall please? Curious to know what others think of it .
> 
> Looking at the card I'm actually mostly interested in watching it. Big fan of the triple threat, Hardy/HHH on paper should be great because they had wonderful chemistry, Beth/Mickie should be a good divas match given who is in it, and HBK/Kennedy has a chance to be solid (I love their Raw match on the first HD show a few weeks after this).


HBK/Kennedy and the triple threat are joint MOTN in my opinion (***1/2 - **** range). I liked Triple H/Hardy but it was a little bit underwhelming considering some of their other matches together. Jericho/Orton I was interested in at the time because it Jericho's return PPV match but I'm not sure how it would hold up now! I think the tag match is fun as was the Rey/MVP up until its awful finish! Can't remember Finlay/Khali but could be a hidden gem perhaps?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Armageddon 07 is fairly solid imo. Don't remember it perfectly, but from what I do remember the Triple Threat is awesome, HBK/Kennedy is really good imo (one of Kennedy's best performances quite frankly), Finlay/Khali is actually fun too (GOD BLESS FINLAY), as is the ECW Tag, and HHH/Jeff was solid if I remember.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rah said:


> The 93-04-27 match? What was bad about it?


I didn't like how they structured that match. The story was supposed to be the bigger veteran heel champion facing the underdog young babyface, but outside of couple moments where Regal hit a fury of uppercuts and when he slapped the mat, they failed in presenting this story. The arm work that both guys employed in the meat of the match was good, but it was pointless because it didn't add to the intended story of the match and nobody sold or followed through that arm work as the match went on. After the commercial break, Windham's offense had no focus. Just hitting a move and going for a pinfall with a choppy pace. I also expected Windham to act more like a heelish dick, but the only moment I saw that happen was when Windham shouted at a referee. It's clear that the crowd was confused as to what the story those two were trying to tell in that match as well. To top it all off, the ending was a mess. I looked up what the folks at PWO liked about that match, and to them it all came down to Regal and Windham working stiff, which means absolutely nothing to me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

#ROOT said:


> With NYR 07 finally out of the way, next on my 07 pile is Armageddon. Can I get some STARS~! and thoughts of the show overall please? Curious to know what others think of it .
> 
> Looking at the card I'm actually mostly interested in watching it. Big fan of the triple threat, Hardy/HHH on paper should be great because they had wonderful chemistry, Beth/Mickie should be a good divas match given who is in it, and HBK/Kennedy has a chance to be solid (I love their Raw match on the first HD show a few weeks after this).


Watched most of it a few weeks ago.

Orton/Jericho, the triple threat, HBK/Kennedy and HHH/Hardy are all solid. Don't know about the rest but nothing can possibly be _that_ bad. I think I understand your sourness on the year considering you started at the worst possible time with Vengeance which is at the height of the dullness of that year, coinciding with what is remembered the most about that year.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Disagree with your assessment of WCW commentary. During the nWo days, they were insufferable. Schiavone was the Michael Cole of his day. He knew nothing about wrestling. Zbyszko was the JBL of his day, but somehow he was worse. All he knew was how to yell. Disgusted that he came from the streets of Chicago. Dusty was the Booker T of his day, which compared to the other guys is not a bad thing. I like Tenay, but he was really a third wheel. And Heenan. Love the man, but he had this annoying problem with his commentary where he would joke around in the wrong times. The jokes he tried to make for instance in the Bret/Benoit Owen tribute match was classless. Only one man on that list actually called matches, and he happened to only be good for cruiserweight matches.


Tony S actually dishes out some decent stuff, Tenay was great as was Dusty at times if he wasn't gettin too carried away with his style of talking. Heenan and Zybysko I agree with. It varies though, I probably just watched a lot of matches in the last while with them at their best and maybe you have seen some as of late with them not...either way they covered the match a HELL of a lot more then most WWE tandems.

Vince and King absolutely NEVER...EVER...talked about moves. What a MANEOUVER! King ROOTS ON HEEL. He got him , no he didnt...King JOKE. Repeat.

Ross and Lawler were very good but even then they didn't dive into it but Ross was just carrying the broadcast. I think it would of been nice if there was a third man in say 2000 with Ross and King, maybe Heyman or a former announcer to be the guy that talks about the match much like Tenay did in WCW.

Either way Ross and Lawler were good but I always felt the WCW booth explained the matches in the ring way better.

When Striker got to the booth as well as Tazz both those guys FINALLY gave the match in the ring some explanations and stuff and that was nice.

Like or Hate Tazz he was pretty phenominal in 2002-2003 with his color commentary at breaking down what was happening in a match for beginners. If you just started watching and you listened to Tazz due to his knowledge with MMA and Amateur holds you'd be able to follow what guys like Lesnar, Angle, Eddie or Benoit and the like were aiming to do.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Dusty Rhodes. :lol I'd love someone to put a compilation video together of some of his commentary hilarities.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

So I looked at Main Event's statistics this week and it looks like Nikki Bella and Paige had a match that went over 11 and a half minutes.

Can someone tell me if Nikki Bella is capable of putting on a great match?

I know Paige is, I'm just wondering if I should check it out later this week. I probably will anyway.

I'll also check out the SD! main event I read, both matches have some potential this week. I am going to try my damndest to make sure I see every match that is remotely good in 2015. I got caught up in 2014 but it was all from June on and that was a ton of catching up. It's better if I can do it live now, and actually BE IN THE MOMENT.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Sting vs Bret Hart (WCW Monday Nitro 10.18.1999)*

x2e9w5n

_Includes Sting/Hart promo from the start of the show too. _

Just keep saying to yourself, Sting is a 'heel' here, right. Also had to laugh at WCW bleeping out 'Screwed'.

Seek and Destroy :mark:

*Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko vs Jushin Liger & El Samurai (03.09.1993)*

x2eakcv

Couple of uploads.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

machomark said:


> So I looked at Main Event's statistics this week and it looks like Nikki Bella and Paige had a match that went over 11 and a half minutes.
> 
> Can someone tell me if Nikki Bella is capable of putting on a great match?
> 
> ...


I haven't seen the match, but I think Nikki is capable of putting together a solid match, especially if he gets to dominate and Paige has to make the comeback. She's gotten better at playing to the crowd and executing moves.

I'm completely with you on that last paragraph. I'm trying to do the same thing. Smackdown's main event could be really awesome.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *Royal Rumble 2005
> 
> The Royal Rumble Match - ****
> 
> ...


*
Was this the Rumble the one where Edge mimicked Eddie's dance?*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Big Boss Man just doesn't know when to stop. This guy is simply on a roll. This segment had me in tears too. :lmao








LilOlMe said:


> Was this the Rumble the one where Edge mimicked Eddie's dance?


Yes. It's funny how much they loved Eddie and booed Edge hard with the elimination.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Don't feel so bad the 2005 rumble is only one of four other rumble matches on my four star list.

Of course I have five rumbles above four stars 92 01 02 04 07


----------



## STEVALD (Oct 11, 2011)

Got the Attitude Era Vol. 2 DVD :mark: Just went through the contents, and its all more match oriented than segments this time. But hey, its the Attitude Era, so most of those matches break down and end up as segments anyway, so :side:


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

machomark said:


> So I looked at Main Event's statistics this week and it looks like Nikki Bella and Paige had a match that went over 11 and a half minutes.
> 
> Can someone tell me if Nikki Bella is capable of putting on a great match?
> 
> I know Paige is, I'm just wondering if I should check it out later this week. I probably will anyway.



Nikki has vastly improved. She's not ahead of Paige or Nattie in the ring or even some of the girls in NXT getting training from Del Ray but she works with what she's got, knows her character very well and how to heel it up.

Paige is a fine baby face but I think when they really run with her in the future it will be as a heel. As for the match, it was fine. Sloppy spot or two aside. 

I wouldn't call it great or must see. Its not better then the recent NXT big women's matches


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I find it quite humerous that Hogan on Talk is Jericho talks about being so confused why guys wouldn't do the job for him ala Bad News Brown or Piper. Well gee Hulkster, I think being the man hand selected for the big vision alongside having your private dressing room, a personal manservant in Brutus Beefcake, as recounted by numerous wrestlers (not just Hart) an alienated attitude towards the boys to the point of refusing card games and a guy who couldn't always be counted on to do the job. Albeit there are two sides to every story and the truth is usually in the middle, but while yes it is weird business-wise why certain guys would not do the job, come on Hogan.

I do find it interesting how Hogan talks about how he wanted to do a job far before Warrior, but they wouldn't let him and Hogan had visions of "Hollywood Hogan" far before 96 and wanted to turn heel post Warrior.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Smackdown had a really good triple threat tag match I really don't llike this style of match unless it's single elimination like survivor series 02 ...but they did this one well and got quite a bit of time. 

***

Interested In how this main event tag is going to be...

*edit-* _I'd give it the same rating as the other match.

***


Happy Bday Befuturelated BDAY Jack Evans._


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Smackdown main event tag was really fun. Another fantastic selling performance from Ambrose and the finishing stretch had the resemblance of the Shield classics we saw a year or two ago on a regular basis. Bodies flyin everywhere! All 3 guys being in the ring together felt kinda special. *** 1/4

We're in for a treat next week with Bryan's in ring return on Smackdown. One hell of a birthday present for me!


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Not sure why Sin Cara beat the new IC Champion of all fucking people?

This company sometimes...like Steve Austin said, "Where are the jobbers?"


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WrestlingOracle said:


> I find it quite humerous that Hogan on Talk is Jericho talks about being so confused why guys wouldn't do the job for him ala Bad News Brown or Piper. Well gee Hulkster, I think being the man hand selected for the big vision alongside having your private dressing room, a personal manservant in Brutus Beefcake, as recounted by numerous wrestlers (not just Hart) an alienated attitude towards the boys to the point of refusing card games and a guy who couldn't always be counted on to do the job. Albeit there are two sides to every story and the truth is usually in the middle, but while yes it is weird business-wise why certain guys would not do the job, come on Hogan.
> 
> I do find it interesting how Hogan talks about how he wanted to do a job far before Warrior, but they wouldn't let him and Hogan had visions of "Hollywood Hogan" far before 96 and wanted to turn heel post Warrior.






Hulk Hogan is a compulsive liar and not one single word out of that guy's mouth can ever be believed. I'm not being an ass I actually enjoy Hogan for the most part (except his WCW work) but really, that man has told more lies and changed stories more times than anyone in the history of the wrestling business. It's WELL documented that Hogan, even in 1996, REALLY wasn't feeling a heel turn at first and had to be coerced pretty heavily by Bischoff. It was even to the point where, Bischoff had Sting in his back pocket as an alternate "3rd Member" of NWO heading into BaTB 1996 just in case Hogan wouldn't go along with it. So it took until a few hours before the show kicked off for Hogan to agree to do it, yet we are supposed to believe he had been wanting to turn heel since his Warrior feud? Please. Apparently the first time Eric approached him about turning heel Hogan got really upset and wouldn't even talk about it. On follow ups Eric had, Hogan would tell Eric he couldn't do it because of all his kid fans, essentially he gave the "John Cena defense" of not turning heel because he was too in love with being the hero.


If you just Google "Hulk Hogan lies" you will come up with some HILARIOUS stuff, including:


1. Andre the Giant weighed 700lbs, and Hogan tore all the muscles in his back when he picked him up for that body slam at WM 3


2. Andre the Giant died just a few weeks after WM 3 (he actually died 5+ years later)


3. Hogan wrestled in front of Elvis in Memphis (Elvis died before Hogan had ever begun training to be a wrestler)


4. Hogan spent the night out drinking with John Belushi after WM 2 (John Belushi had already been dead for several years at the time of WM 2)


5. Because of the time difference between Japan and the USA, Hogan wrestled 400 days one year (ummmmm, yea. Hogan would have a big enough ego to think he was capable of time travel :lol)


6. Hogan learned "shoot wrestling" when he wrestled in Japan because he used to have to wrestle guys from PRIDE fighting, and he never knew when he would be in a real fight or just a wrestling match. (Hogan wrestled in Japan in the 1970s and 1980s, Pride wasn't founded until 1997. Not to mention how ridiculous it is that a wrestling promoter would throw a guy in a match and not tell him if it was a shoot fight or not).


That's why I didn't listen to the Jericho podcast with Hogan. I'm sure it would be awfully entertaining but I just can't take Hogan seriously with all the bullshit he's spewed over the years.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hogan is funny. I never take a word he says seriously. For me, he appears as if he's talking in hyperbole or just joking when he says anything. Sometimes I even believe he's in his own little world and telling us his story based on what he sees in that fantasy world rather than reality. Which is why I'm surprised every time he gets back to reality including when he correct himself after a botch on a promo. :lol

Saw Boss Man's poem dedicated to Big Show and I'm seriously in tears just thinking about it. :lmao He might become one of my favorites just based on his work in 1999.

"But if I could have a son as stupid as you, I'd have wished for cancer so I would die too" (this one killed me) :lmao


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

The thing about the podcast with Hogan is you get the impression there is legit heat between Hogan and Austin. Also, Hogan basically brings up shit Jericho doesn't even ask just to further his good guy image. Jericho asks about the Warrior match so Hogan takes it to all their problems Jericho didn't even have to ask. Same thing with Savage.

He's just one of those guys who never thinks he's in the wrong.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Hey everyone, today I wrote about the glory that is a Goldberg squash (Actually wrote about 6 or 7 of them), check it out *here!*


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

*What's the best War Games match?*

Thanks in advance.

- Vic


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Re: What's the best War Games match?*

1992. Easy.


----------



## Nightrow (Sep 24, 2014)

*Re: What's the best War Games match?*

Dangerous Alliance vs. Sting's Squadron


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Goldberg MOTY in 1999 is v. Sid at Halloween Havoc. Seriously it's like a seven minute bloody revenge extended basically-squash and needs to be watched.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'll be watching that Regal/Goldberg match soon. Probably a couple more too, I still really like the Sting match from September '98. Shame their '99 feud fell flat, but it was WCW 1999, so.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

I often wonder if Hogan is actually all there. The guy while a legend and knew how to work and is without a doubt the biggest wrestling name ever...I sometimes wonder how smart he is.

He could be just some compuslive liar but he comes off pretty fucking stupid...all the time.


----------



## ThunderAngel (Aug 6, 2006)

I completely forgot about it gave me a few thoughts -

1) How does everyone rate this? I thought it was a PPV quality for sure.

2) I dont recall JR being so damn good on RAW back in 2008!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Survivor Series 1999:

Kurt Angle vs Shawn Stasiak - ★¼
Kane vs X-Pac - ★
Big Show vs Big Boss Man's team - LOL
Chyna vs Chris Jericho - ★¼
Too Cool/Holly's vs Hardy's/Edge & Christian - ★★
Al Snow & Mankind vs New Age Outlaws - ★¾
Triple H vs The Rock vs Big Show - ★★¾

Pretty shit show. lol'd @ JR burying every match that follows Austin getting run over. Also a pretty weak ending that came from nowhere. In ways, this felt like watching Survivor Series from 2013. All this hype for a big 4 PPV but a very weak card and match quality with questionable booking. I'd assume Big Show winning the belt was in his contract because that was as weak a payoff to HHH's heel reign as can be.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Hardy match is one of the only 2000s Michaels matches I'd still call really good. Would probably be praised as a ***1/2 match if it happened on PPV. 

thank god C2D's posts don't bold everybody else's any more. the hell was that anyway?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't know what's up with the automatic bold. Your post appears as bold for me as well as everything I post. (but not the post above my previous) Is there any explanation for it? Pretty annoying to say the least.

On another note, the Goldberg talk made me wanna watch a random match of his so I chose one with Sting from 98 and it was watchable but nothing special. What's up with Goldberg sorta getting up from a tombstone?

EDIT: Looks like on every page, whenever I post, every post after mine appears bold. Dunno if it's just for me or others see it that way too. 

EDIT 2: Switched to the "legacy" forum skin and now the posts are no longer bolded, although my info to the left *still is*.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

I'm pretty confused yeah1993....Shawn Michaels vs Jeff hardy is the only 2000s Shawn Michaels match you consider good.

I find most of his work in that decade overrated but that comment is confusing


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

all my posts are bolded for some reason.....


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

machomark said:


> I'm pretty confused yeah1993....Shawn Michaels vs Jeff hardy is the only 2000s Shawn Michaels match you consider good.
> 
> I find most of his work in that decade overrated but that comment is confusing





Yeah1993 said:


> The Hardy match is *one of* the only 2000s Michaels matches I'd still call *really good. *




I mean there aren't all many, but it's more than one.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

WrestlingOracle said:


> I find it quite humerous that Hogan on Talk is Jericho talks about being so confused why guys wouldn't do the job for him ala Bad News Brown or Piper. Well gee Hulkster, I think being the man hand selected for the big vision alongside having your private dressing room, a personal manservant in Brutus Beefcake, as recounted by numerous wrestlers (not just Hart) an alienated attitude towards the boys to the point of refusing card games and a guy who couldn't always be counted on to do the job. Albeit there are two sides to every story and the truth is usually in the middle, but while yes it is weird business-wise why certain guys would not do the job, come on Hogan.
> 
> I do find it interesting how Hogan talks about how he wanted to do a job far before Warrior, but they wouldn't let him and Hogan had visions of "Hollywood Hogan" far before 96 and wanted to turn heel post Warrior.


Reasons why Piper and Brown wouldn't do the job for Hogan, or ANYBODY:

They were massive cunts. How can you spend two minutes around either of those men and not realise that one simple fact?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Re: What's the best War Games match?*

*Dangerous Alliance vs Sting’s Squadron (Wargames) (Wrestlewar 5.17.92)*

x1q988q

_Live PPV Version - Jesse Ventura's commentary intact._

Edit: In future Vic, this could be asked in the DVD/Match thread, as when creating threads, you need to start with discussion/opinion of your own too, not just a question.

Edit2: For some reason, the original post in the thread has not merged, but Vic Capri asked what was the best War Games match. Actually it has, it's on 2 pages back. http://www.wrestlingforum.com/43870809-post5458.html


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

*Re: What's the best War Games match?*

87 was pretty epic. the very first one with ellering and dillon.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

*Re: What's the best War Games match?*



BREEaments03 said:


> 87 was pretty epic. the very first one with ellering and dillon.



Fuck yeah, this one is awesome.

Four STARS for 87.

It just followed the formula that many tried to duplicate over the years but only a couple managed to top. (91, 92)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The 92 War Games match is one of those matches I just don't get. I acknowledge that it is an all-time classic, but the first half of the match is just so boring to me. I prefer the 91 match over it, but even that one didn't astound me. What do you guys love about the 92 match so much?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm the other way around lol. Didn't think the 1991 match was nearly the GOAT classic Wargames match even I used to think it was on my last watch.

Been too long since I saw either to go into any real detail, guessing 1992 is loved more because of the Dangerous Alliance angle going into it.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I found the ending to the 92 war games really awkward, but besides that it was pretty great. Heyman with blueprints/plans gets me every time.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I've finally reached my 10000th post :mark:

There is no other thread deserving of it other than this one. 
__________________________________________________________________

I find War Games '91 incredibly overrated. I watched it the other day on the Network and I legit didn't give a shit. Maybe, it was an experience. Maybe the actual story going into it has a lot more to do with it than the actual match itself. Or maybe wrestling standards just weren't high in 1991. But I legit just didn't care about this match or anything that was going on in it. I had to double, no, triple-check to make sure that this is the match Dave Meltzer gave 5 stars.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The ending to the 91 War Games was really good. Although I found it weird how Pillman began the match forgetting to sell his ribs and then ending the match looking like he nearly died. It's the best War Games match I've seen, but I enjoyed at least like 30 Shield matches more than it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Andy's blog post from 2010 sums up WarGames 92 pretty well.

http://whiskeyandwrestling.blogspot.com.au/2010/09/double-of-day-27.html

I have a write-up too from years ago but it won't do what this did for opinion-explaining.


FWIW it took me a while to really like any WarGames too. I won't say a lot of it requires you to watch the feuds going into it, but, they're basically pay off matches, so that's the whole point of them. You'd at least have to know who's feuding with who and stuff. Also Arn Anderson stooges like a mastermind in all of them. God, he was probably the best wrestler in the WORLD in 1992.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Wrestlewar 1991's MOTN is the US title match between Lex and Danny, great match. I didn't care much for the ME, cluster messy.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Andy...what ever happened to him? He still around?



----



*Disc 2 Factions Set Ratings:*





*War Games Match
Team WCW (Diamond Dallas Page, Roddy Piper & The Warrior) vs. Team Hollywood (“Hollywood” Hulk Hogan, Stevie Ray & Bret Hart) vs. Team Wolfpac (Kevin Nash, Sting & Lex Luger)
Fall Brawl • September 13, 1998*



*** 3/4*



*The Brood vs. J.O.B. Squad (Al Snow, Bob Holly & Scorpio)
Rock Bottom • December 13, 1998*

*
***



*Survivor Series Elimination Match
Million Dollar Team (Tatanka, Bam Bam Bigelow, King Kong Bundy & The Heavenly Bodies) vs. Guts and Glory (Lex Luger, Adam Bomb, Mable & The Smoking Gunns)
Survivor Series • November 23, 1994*


*** 1/4*


*Owen Hart, Kama Mustafa & D-Lo Brown vs. Triple H & New Age Outlaws
Over the Edge • May 31, 1998*


*** 1/2*




*Big Stevie Cool vs. Axl Rotten
Hardcore TV • January 7, 1997
*



***





*

Corporate Gauntlet Match
Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Corporation
RAW • February 13, 1999
*


** 3/4*




MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Wrestlewar 1991's MOTN is the US title match between Lex and Danny, great match. I didn't care much for the ME, *cluster messy*.




Those are the two things a War Games match should be IMO.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

^^ Well... that looks terrible. 

The girlfriend and I watched the* 2012 Rumble* tonight. What a SHIT ton of fun that was. The crowd was absolutely MOLTEN throughout. Standing on their feet for nearly all 30 entrants. The company did a marvelous job of keeping you entertained despite there only being about 20 legitimate superstars in the match and far less than half of them being true main eventers. Road Dogg, Mick Foley, Ricardo Rodriguez, Booker T, Lawler, etc. all got great reactions. The first half of the match was so much fun and featured a few really good performances from Miz, Ziggler, & Cody Rhodes (until Big Show ruined Cody's huge run. UGH). All of a sudden, in the blink of an eye, we were down to two and I think the crowd was initially disappointed. Sheamus & Jericho put on one hell of a one-on-one match though. I honestly think it rivals Michaels/Taker from '07 as the all time great final two. So many well done false finishes. Great stuff. Really fun Rumble as a whole with very little star power throughout. **** 3/4*


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

That's actually my girl's second favorite Rumble behind 2004 (cause she's a BENOIT GIRL - don't worry, she ain't no murderer 8*D). I thought that one was... okay, I guess. It definitely suffered from lack of star power, and there was a rather boring portion of the match somewhere down the middle for my tastes. I will say that I liked the Ricardo, Kharma and Cody stuff, and I LOVED the Sheamus/Jericho ending. Plus... gf influence = more stars than it deserves :side:.

Corey, didn't you watch Takeover: F4W a few days ago or what?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> That's actually my girl's second favorite Rumble behind 2004 (cause she's a BENOIT GIRL - don't worry, she ain't no murderer 8*D). I thought that one was... okay, I guess. It definitely suffered from lack of star power, *and there was a rather boring portion of the match somewhere down the middle for my tastes*. I will say that I liked the Ricardo, Kharma and Cody stuff, and I LOVED the Sheamus/Jericho ending. *Plus... gf influence = more stars than it deserves *:side:.
> 
> Corey, didn't you watch Takeover: F4W a few days ago or what?


You're probably right about the two bolded parts, but I felt like they made up for it with the awesome finishing stretch. I'm not sure how I'd feel about the match if I watched it by myself. 

I've watched everything up to the main event. Honestly, even if the main event is incredible, the first Takeover was better for me. The Tag Title match was fun in places but disjointed in others (because The Ascension is awful and can't work that fast paced style), Itami's debut was cool, but just about everything else in that first hour felt like major filler. I can't say I'm intrigued by Enzo Amore or Sylvester whatever. They look like amateurs.  Charlotte vs. Bayley was pretty good. but I thought the ending was awkward. Charlotte landed on her feet for that moonsault. :lol *** for it. Loved Charlotte doing so many things in the ring that her dad would do. Made me smirk several times. Same rating as Charlotte/Natalya so the Paige/Emma match is NXT's best women's affair so far that I've seen.

I've been too hooked into Lucha Underground to go back and watch that main event yet, but I'll do it soon.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Charlotte/Bayley was awesome, I'd go at least half a snowflake higher than you for it. The Moonsault was awkward, but by God were the performances by both ladies tremendous. Especially Bayley. She absolutely NAILED it. Charlotte was really good in it too.

And yes, the Main Event is incredible. Don't worry about that. Takeover 1 is probably my least favorite NXT PPV, and F4W would come right after it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*NXT Championship - Fatal 4-Way
*Adrian Neville (c) vs. Sami Zayn vs. Tyler Breeze vs. Tyson Kidd (_NXT Takeover: Fatal 4-Way_)

WHAT. A. FUCKING. MATCH. Jesus lord that was a doozy. I don't know where to even start, so I'll start before the match even begins. The heat that Kidd gets from the crowd is fantastic and his little backstage promo segment in the middle of the show was great. FACT. "Tyson Chicken! Natty's wife!" :lmao There's 4 completely different characters here and I love all of them. The way the match started was great to me. Pure chaos all around the ring. Zayn using the cell phone as a weapon was hilarious and Kidd/Breeze initially teaming up with those double suplexes on the ramp was a nice hardcore touch. The only negative I can come up with throughout the ENTIRE match were some of the parts where Kidd is in control and not letting anyone get in the ring. He applies headlocks and it makes no sense to me. I felt like Breeze disappeared for at least 5 minutes. 

I'm sitting there thinking to myself, 'man this sucks that Breeze is clearly an afterthought in this match', and then BAM! He jumps in and kicks the shit out of everyone for the first of MANY close nearfalls. The action from there on out was nearly perfect. Some of the sequences were absolute gold and each one of the 4 had legitimate chances to win the match. I never thought I'd see a match like this EVER in a WWE(sorta) ring. It felt so indy, but the good days of indy. This was like Danielson, Aries, Lynn, & Tyler Black going out there and tearing the house down on an HDNet episode. Except it was even better! I was standing on my feet, going completely nuts for the last several minutes of this. They did such a great job of teasing you with the Zayn/Neville interactions, but never giving away too much. Planting the seeds of the eventual match and the initial crowd reaction to Neville's actions at the end were incredible. You couldn't have asked for a better finish imo. Epic. Just fucking epic. I'm almost 23 years old and I'm so fucking glad to see there's still matches like this that can make me feel like a kid again. I have no shame in saying this was my favorite match (so far) from 2014. 

***** 1/2+*


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Same rating for the four corner match.

Could be my second favourite match of last year actually.

Hope Raw is good tonight pretty sure brock is signed to show up on the 12th and the 19th shows.

Also the rumor of randy savage being announced for the hall of fame. Something I've wanted to see on raw for oh just eleven years.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I forgot to add that the match is without a doubt the best 4-way the company has ever had. Exceeds Backlash '07 and whatever else is out there. It's probably the best 4-way match I can ever recall seeing from any company. ROH may have done something close at a Death Before Dishonor in '08 but I don't think I've ever seen that.

I'm interested to see if they're gonna give up on RAW and do nothing major considering they're going head-to-head with the National Championship game, or if they'll go balls out to deliver a great show to keep people watching. My guess is the first option.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd go around *** for that NXT 4 way. Didn't care for much outside of ZAYN tbh.


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

I too find that match to be overrated. I'm not convinced Tyler Breeze is that good in the ring.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I forgot to add that the match is without a doubt the best 4-way the company has ever had. Exceeds Backlash '07 and whatever else is out there. It's probably the best 4-way match I can ever recall seeing from any company. ROH may have done something close at a Death Before Dishonor in '08 but I don't think I've ever seen that.
> 
> I'm interested to see if they're gonna give up on RAW and do nothing major considering they're going head-to-head with the National Championship game, or if they'll go balls out to deliver a great show to keep people watching. My guess is the first option.



I'm sorry, that Fatal Fourway was AWESOME, but no way in HELL in comes close to topping the real GOAT 4 man match at IYH: Final Four. Bret vs Vader vs Taker vs Austin, no NXT match is topping that. I have no idea why no one has ever worked a 4 man match like this sense, all the others including Backlash 2007 and NXT: F4W work a similar formula. Not the case for Final Four. All 4 guys just fucking BRAWL and work a break neck pace for the entire 25+ minute duration of the match. It's one of my fave "go-to" matches when I wanna watch some mayhem and bad ass fisticuffs. Vader gets busted open something fierce right above his eye and bleeds all over the fucking place. Chair shots, steel step shots, wacky bumps, it's got it ALL.

So yea, I gave the NXT bout ***3/4, it's really really good. But the Final Four bout is in ****1/2+ territory for me, maybe even ****3/4. You need to see it ASAP if you haven't already.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Ah yeah, I completely forgot about that match. I definitely loved it, BUT, I still think the NXT match trumps it as the 4-way GOAT. I can only come up with so many positives for the match. The way you feel about Final Four is 100% the way I feel about this one. The action is relentless (75% of it at least) and it's such an easy watch. GOD that final stretch was so masterful.

I gave Final Four **** 1/4 btw, but I constantly forget it exists. Only seen it once in my lifetime, which is when they released the _Best of: In Your House _dvd.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

That Regal/Benoit (Pillman Memorial) match. :lenny

First time I've seen it i think, but i can safely say I was blown the fuck away.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think the Punk/Gibson/Joe/Daniels match is my favorite fatal four way. Well maybe not. That IYH: Final Four match is perfect. Man it's hard. Good call cjack.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

See? I forgot multiple matches.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I might prefer Big Show/McIntyre/Rhodes/Ziggler to anything tbh. Haven't watched the NXT one, though.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Haven't started watching RAW yet (and forgot to DVR the first 5 minutes...boooo), but I think that if they want to set up Brock vs. Bryan without the title, all they have to do is have Brock lose the title at RR. Then, Brock is pissed, so his music hits, and he causes utter destruction in the Rumble. Part of that destruction is eliminating Bryan. The Authority won't care, 'cause they hate Bryan anyway. 

This sets up that feud.

If they're determined to make Reigns the champion at WM, I guess this would be the way. The crowd will still be pissed at the RR, though. At least Bryan fans would get the consolation of seeing him go against Brock in a dream match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

LilOlMe said:


> Haven't started watching RAW yet (and forgot to DVR the first 5 minutes...boooo), but I think that if they want to set-up Brock vs. Bryan without the title, all they have to do is have Brock lose the title at RR. Then, Brock is pissed, so his music hits, and he causes utter destruction in the Rumble. Part of that destruction is eliminating Bryan. The Authority won't care, 'cause they hate Bryan anyway.
> 
> This sets up that feud.
> 
> If they're determined the make Reigns the champion at WM, I guess this would be the way. The crowd will still be pissed at RR, though. At least Bryan fans would get the consolation of seeing him go against Brock in a dream match.


The problem with this idea is that Reigns vs. Rollins wouldn't be a big enough money match to main event & Cena vs. Reigns... well I just don't want that to be the main event. :lol

Don't worry about missing RAW, it's been pretty awful. They wasted 10 minutes on a promo-fest between Show & Reigns (although it felt like 30).


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Only bothered to watch this Bryan/Kane segment and a bit of Big Show's speech. We are all in agreement that Bryan is the fourth most over wrestler of all-time, right? New Orleans crowds are typically dead but that crowd for Bryan was electric.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Ohhh man. That contract signing to end RAW. :mark:

:rollins THAT MAN


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Rollins has been the fucking man great at playing this entitled little shit character (to my surprise NO WAY would I think Tyler Black would've been capable of this and Seth might be WWE's best NXT endorsement so far considering with Bray it was a matter of finding his role), and especially before Bryan got here, Seth and J&J (with a little assistance from Mizdow but to me that act is getting stale due to oversaturation) were carrying some awful shows, but as it always seems like I say during every beatdown the guy is in, Brock sold that like a champ. Once again, the man is such a physical beast with one of the greatest offenses all time, but Brock's selling has always been so on point. Brock's selling of Benoit's intensity and especially taking those chops, Brock's selling period in his full run, the serious air Brock gets on chokeslams, the completely disoriented selling Brock had at the Punk attack that helped sell that great story, the wailing in pain when taker stabbed that pen through his hand, and now these two curb stomps Brock has taken. Guy's forehead tonight got drilled to the mat maybe even without hand protection, the dazed look he had and then the great little touch of a little forehead blood. We got some real solid sellers on the roster ala Ambrose, Rusev, Orton, of course Rollins and Zayn, Slater, in terms of taking impact Ziggler etc., but Cena and the rest of the "big guys" could take notes from Brock's selling.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Brock said:


> That Regal/Benoit (Pillman Memorial) match. :lenny
> 
> First time I've seen it i think, but i can safely say I was blown the fuck away.


You've seen their Velocity matches, right?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rah said:


> You've seen their Velocity matches, right?


William Regal vs. Chris Benoit (05/13/06) (WWE Velocity)

Think that is the one ive seen, i don't think ive watched their two '05 matches yet TBH.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Brock said:


> William Regal vs. Chris Benoit (05/13/06) (WWE Velocity)
> 
> Think that is the one ive seen, i don't think ive watched their two '05 matches yet TBH.




_-Chris Benoit vs William Regal WWE Velocity 7/16/05 _ (Some of these dates for these matches have been sketchy, different sites claim different dates as one of these matches was taped the normal amount before it aired live on TV on the weekend, where-as another was taped perhaps more days before the actual air date. But it's all right in the general week of my dates.***** 1/4*

_-Chris Benoit vs William Regal WWE Velocity 10/01/05_ ***** 1/2*

_-Chris Benoit vs William Regal WWE Velocity 5/13/06_ ***** 1/4
*



All of these matches are pieces of art.

Technical fuckng mat brilliance to the highest extreme. Pure TV Quality and bang for your buck as a match never drags longer then 15 minutes in this three match Velocity series in which all are classic matches despite all three having the same feel, spots and same match finish.

It is the workrate, the logic, the holds and counter-holds between two of the best technicians giving the live fans something way different and a C show like Velocity a match better then anything it had any right of seeing.

These matches would be talked about a lot more had the BENOIT07RAMPAGE not of happened.


No Mercy 06 is also a gem.




Some of the spots like the vicious headbutts after blading, the ddt on the apron, among everything else are sights to behold.

Any fan of technical wrestling can appreciate their brilliance they display.


I also hold the Regal Pillman Tribute Match on the same level as these although that is also similar to the three Velocity matches.


The No Mercy Match is probably the most different of the 5 I have named as a whole, but I believe even that one ends the same way as the others. :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah. Those are same dates that I have down for those Velocity matches. Love their NM match of course too. 

If there is one wrestler I could pick to teach me wrestling, Regal would be at the top of that list.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

@machomark, your dream came true last night brother!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Two matches confirmed for Smackdown's tapings tonight, the first episode to air this thursday:

Daneil Bryan vs. Kane
Bad News Barrett vs. Sin Cara (Intercontiental Title Match)

I miss the days when we used to get World Title matches on weekly shows... 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not sure fi you guys heard, but they're coming out with another Jericho DVD later this year. It's gonna be a match compilation of "mostly unreleased" ones. Called _The Road is Jericho_. WrestlingDVDNews is doing a Jericho week where they release the matches day by day. Here's the first two days:

— *WCW Cruiserweight Championship Match*
Chris Jericho vs. Ultimo Dragon
_WCW Bash at the Beach • July 13, 1997_ 

— *Last Man Standing Match*
Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels
_RAW • November 10, 2008_

— *Steel Cage Match*
Chris Jericho vs. X-Pac
_No Mercy • October 22, 2000

_ — *WCW Championship Match*
Chris Jericho vs. Booker T
_RAW • July 16, 2001_

— *WWE Undisputed Championship Match*
Chris Jericho vs. The Rock
_Royal Rumble • January 20, 2002_


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Yes better late then never.

Disc 3 of faction.a. Had a few matches over three stars the set isn't all aboit star ratings it's fun enough to watch and better then the other two you referenced.

Jericho hhh lms Fl 00 needs to see the light of day on a Jericho or hhh set.

Few of those matches listed above are above four stars.


Best five matches of 15 thus far

Ambrose Wyatt ambulance raw 1/5/15 ****

Ziggler Barrett 2/3 falls IC Title raw 1/5/15 ***

reigns rusev smackdown 1/2/15 ***

reigns Ambrose vs Rollins big show smackdown 1/9/15 ***

Usos dusts mizdow scrackdown 1/9/15 ***

Hm reigns vs Harper RAW 1/12/15 ** 3/4


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I thought that Jericho LMS match was on Triple H's last DVD set tbh, the 'Kingdom Come' one.

Luckily I have it through the ever trusty 'Tagged Classics'.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> I thought that Jericho LMS match was on Triple H's last DVD set tbh, the 'Kingdom Come' one.
> 
> Luckily I have it through the ever trusty 'Tagged Classics'.


You got yourself confused, mate. Jack Evans listed the Jericho/MICHAELS LMS match from Raw, not the Trips one. And the Trips LMS match that's on TKC is the one vs Orton at No Mercy 

Geeze Zeppers, going senile already I see. I guess you've had one too many chair shots to the head, as Austin would say. Either that or having to moderate the imbeciles in the General WWE section is melting your brain 

Ditto on having Regal be the guy I would want to teach me wrestling, if I was thinking of becoming a wrestler. I'm watching the Regal/Ambrose series as we speak, actually 

If everything was fair and just in the world, guys like William Regal would be in the Hall of Fame. Now that Macho was announced as an entrant this year, the guys I most want to see inducted are: VADER, Regal, Stan Hansen, Sting, Finlay, Rey Mysterio, and Kurt Angle.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I was actually responding to machomark 's post, as he mentioned the HHH/Jericho match.  

I'm not that senile yet dammit. :side:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> I was actually responding to machomark 's post, as he mentioned the HHH/Jericho match.
> 
> I'm not that senile yet dammit. :side:



Oh Jesus fucking Christ. fpalm

I just made myself look senile lol, sorry bout that.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'd like to apologize for my post earlier today. It's absolutely littered with typos, but the forum won't actually let me edit it. When I try to edit, it's just a blank space...

Anyways, no joke when I say this but Main Event had a really fun 6-man tonight. The New Day vs. Rose, Cesaro, & Kidd. Nearly the whole match felt like a finishing stretch, but there was some pretty cool shit thrown in there (not gonna lie). Pretty shocked I enjoyed it.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Does WWE still suck?

edit: why is this bolded?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Does WWE still suck?
> 
> edit: why is this bolded?


Most of it still does, BUT, it is Rumble season and there's a pretty damn unpredictable WWE Title match comin up. Lesnar vs. Cena vs. Rollins. The contract signing on RAW made things even more interesting. Plus Bryan is back so thank god for that.

It's hard for me NOT to be excited around this time of year, especially when there's no clear cut winner for the Rumble. I mean, who's gonna win this thing? Reigns? Bryan? Orton? Some other unknown return?

I have no idea why that's bolded. Some of us in here have been having that problem lately. Oh look, mine's bolded too...


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Anyone else not like the Rude/Flair matches in 1993? I've now watched the Fall Brawl and Halloween Havoc matches and I'm just so bored.. Flair is a terrible babyface is my only explanation as to why these two simply don't work well together.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Don't agree with Flair not being a good babyface, but yeah the Rude/Flairs are not what they should be.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Lazyking said:


> Anyone else not like the Rude/Flair matches in 1993? I've now watched the Fall Brawl and Halloween Havoc matches and I'm just so bored.. Flair is a terrible babyface is my only explanation as to why these two simply don't work well together.


I commented on the Fall Brawl match a week ago. I think Flair can be an excellent baby face though, especially when he does his old man comedy routine. That match was terrible. I think my issue though might be with Rude, who I honestly don't think should be considered an elite wrestler. Like I would put someone like Sheamus or Orton above him. Rude has this weird problem where he either wrestles a really good match or a really bad match. No rhyme or reason as to which one you get from him.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> Don't agree with Flair not being a good babyface, but yeah the Rude/Flairs are not what they should be.


Flair was a good babyface performance when Funk or Vadar were opponents. Many a men love the Race matches. I wasn't too particular on the Rude matches myself. Some great workers just don't click together. People still talk in favor about several standout old man Flair's babyface performance at the twilight of his career, albeit in the ring with Taker (2002), HHH (2005), Foley (2006), Show (2006), and Michaels (2008).


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I think Flair can be a TREMENDOUS baby face, but for whatever reason it just didn't click in those Rude matches.

Some of my favorite matches Flair ever had were while he was a baby face:

Vs Vader Starrcade 1993 ****3/4
Vs Triple H Cage Match Taboo Tuesday 2005 ****3/4
Vs Undertaker WrestleMania 18 ****
Vs Vince McMahon Royal Rumble 2002 ****
Vs Terry Funk Great American Bash 1989 *****
Vs Terry Funk I Quit COTC IX *****
Vs Kurt Angle Raw 2005 ****1/4

Etc.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Street Fight for the World Heavyweight Championship (Dark Match)
Chris Jericho vs. John Cena
Manchester, NH • December 29, 2008

Chicago Street Fight for the WWE Championship
Chris Jericho vs. CM Punk
Extreme Rules • April 29, 2012

next matches announced for the Jericho DVD


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Gotta say, the Jericho set is looking pretty...




crap so far .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm onto Judgment Day 2001 now in my WWF 2001 viewing. I'll see how the main event holds up, don't remember much from the other big matches, such as Kane/HHH or Benoit/Angle.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Fair is like a better version of triple h as a face it can be done in some cases but it's not where near as good as the alternative.

Or maybe a better example is Randy savage though I think savage pulled of face better then flair did as the guy is jist a natural heel.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> I'm onto Judgment Day 2001 now in my WWF 2001 viewing. I'll see how the main event holds up, don't remember much from the other big matches, such as Kane/HHH or Benoit/Angle.


That PPV is pretty excellent in my book. I've watched it twice on the Network so far and loved it each time.

Kane/Trips is outstanding. One of Kane's top 3 singles matches ever IMO. 

Austin/Taker is their only GREAT match together, just a wild, chaotic brawl, exactly how you would picture an Austin/Taker match being. Seems they needed to switch the face/heel dynamic around to really get in a groove.

Benoit/Angle is a good if unspectacular match. Star ratings wise it would be in the ***1/2 area for me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, with the storyline going into it, I'm expecting Taker to want to rip Austin to shreds lol. Do Angle/Benoit make it into the third fall, I can't honestly remember Angle being in many ladder matches tbh.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Clique said:


> Flair was a good babyface performance when Funk or Vadar were opponents. Many a men love the Race matches. I wasn't too particular on the Rude matches myself. Some great workers just don't click together. People still talk in favor about several standout old man Flair's babyface performance at the twilight of his career, albeit in the ring with Taker (2002), HHH (2005), Foley (2006), Show (2006), and Michaels (2008).


The Funk series is the first thing that sprung to mind, yeah. I LOVVVE the 8/31/83 match with Race. Totally forgot about that. I guess when I think 'babyface Flair' I think of /Funk to be the first real stuff. He was unreal in the HHH cage.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brock said:


> I'm onto Judgment Day 2001 now in my WWF 2001 viewing. I'll see how the main event holds up, don't remember much from the other big matches, such as Kane/HHH or Benoit/Angle.



Taker/Austin is great.
Kane/HHH is good.
Angle/Benoit is trash. UTTER FUCKING SHITE. Load of wank. Absolute balls. Bucket of piss.

Tag Team Turmoil is fucking ace though. Oh, and the event gives us THIS great Regal moment:










Speaking of Judgment Day... 2005 was the most recent one posted on my BLOG~! I would have updated my sig sooner but I has been ill .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Armageddon 2007*

Yet another DVD I had to unwrap to watch for this ramble! Though tbh I don't think I've owned this one that long, pretty sure it's one I picked up a couple of months before starting the 07 rambles.


*Rey Mysterio Vs MVP - WWE United States Championship Match*

I miss Rey . The current contract situation with him and WWE is bullshit. Just let him leave. He can't do much in the ring any more without getting injured, sadly, and let's face it, Rey going elsewhere isn't going to put a dint in WWE.

Match starts fun, both men doing back and forth doing some nice holds and cool counters. Then MVP gains control and *falls asleep*...

Mmmmmm Root, I'd love to hack that system with you. Oh, we only have one chair, maybe you should sit on my lap...

*wakes up*

Huh what? Mysterio is making a comeback . Finally, something interesting. :lmao Mysterio loses his balance on the ropes, but still manages to connect with MVP... except his balls took a headbutt .

Fun finishing stretch and then... MVP gets himself counted out. Booooring. Some good stuff here, when Rey was on offence, but everything else was dull.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Kane & CM Punk Vs Mark Henry & Big Daddy V*

BEEFIES VS PUNK :mark:.

Match starts with Henry and Punk together. Yey! Henry trash talking :mark:.

Dammit WWE, STOP SAYING MARK HENRY IS LEGITIMATELY THE WORLD'S STRONGEST MAN. He isn't. He never was. He has lifted some big weights in the past, pre-WWE. He won the 2002 Arnold Strongman Classic. BUT that competition was seriously lacking in big time strength athletes. I still think it was a set up, as Vince and Arnie were friends, and Arnie had done some things with WWE before, and having Henry win would add some media attraction to WWE, while WWE could help advertise the first Arnold Strongman Classic and get it off the ground.

Anyway... no wait, not done yet! In 2007, Henry certainly wasn't LEGITIMATELY the World's Strongest Man. A certain Polish man by the name of Mariusz Pudzianowski was.

Ok, back to the match. In fact, I missed quite a bit of it typing that shite out lol. I'll go back to the start because I genuinely wanna see this.

Even Henry Vs Kane part of the early going here is :mark:. Kane looks like he's trying to really kill Sexual Chocolate with some of those shots! Tag back to Punk, who ends up getting run over by Henry and now the 2 BEEFIES can begin to crush the ECW Champ!

:lmao they try to do the old "face runs into the ropes, heel on the apron kicks him" spot, but the fucking referee got in the way :lmao.

Hoooooly SHIT at the height CM Punk gets dropped from when Big Daddy V presses him over his head. Full extension of his arms, elbows locked out (still in the Strongman mindset here lol), and Big Daddy V is what, 6'8? So Punk gets dropped over 7 feet to the mat. OUCH. To hell with calling Henry the World's Strongest Man lol, someone see what Daddy V can do! Well, back then, anyway. We can't now .

"COME ON, DADDY!" :lmao that just sounds so wrong. Stop it, Striker .

Kane takes a turn at being the FIP, and Henry & V do a pretty darn good job working him over. How awesome would they have been as a dominate tag team with the titles or something on Raw and/or SD? They constantly stuck Big Show and Kane together and gave them the belts, why not do the same for the SUPERIOR BEEFIES team?

Punk's hot tag is sweet, and his knees and kicks to the head of Big Daddy V to try and take him off his feet all look fantastic. And then... BOOM. Punk dives off the ropes and BDV catches him with a Samoan Drop for the win! Damn! BDV just pinned the ECW Champion!!!

So this was great! I mean yeah, one hell of a tag match! Add another PPV tag match in 2007 that's better than the overrated DX/Rated RKO match .

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


*Shawn Michaels Vs Mr Kennedy*

Hoping for at least a solid match here. Kennedy kinda went downhill in 07 after he came back from the injury that cost him the MITB briefcase. However I do love the match he had in early 08 on Raw with HBK on the first HD show, so hopefully the PPV match here will be good.

Anyone remember why this match is happening btw? No video package so I'm clueless lol.

Unusual start to the match as Kennedy starts off strong as the heel, rather than a typical babyface shine period. I like when they deviate from the regular formula . Kennedy works over the back of HBK, and HBK must take advantage of any oppertunity that comes his way, involving a chop block to the knee, and then an armbar take down. Different parts of the body, but both were the best he could do at that time.

Ha, it's actually like Kennedy and HBK have reversed rolls. HBK as a babyface would normally start strong, with heel Kennedy looking for any opening he can get to take advantage of. Nice .

That armbar takedown took enough out of Kennedy to allow the Show Stopper to regain control, and he does so by continuing to work over that arm, now forcing Kennedy to take back his style of wrestling by searching for an opening!

HBK STAMPS ON KENNEDY'S HAND WHILE IT'S ON THE STEEL STEPS~!

Wonder how good HBK can be at working over someone's hand. I guess he did get first HAND experience (ha, get it?) in the Mankind match at Mindgames .

Love some of the battles they have with HBK refusing to let go of the hand and Kennedy trying everything he can to get away :mark:. This is the kind of shit that made me such a fan of Kennedy during his mid-06 to mid-07 run.

:mark: Awesome transition spot with HBK having his back smashed into the ring post from the apron :mark:. Love that spot.

:mark: HBK constantly getting in little shots to the hand whenever he can :mark:.

Also like how HBK's comeback is slowly built up with him getting a little more offence in each time he attempts a full comeback. He'll hit something, Kennedy will take him back down. He'll hit something again, Kennedy might be rocked and HBK can get something else in, before Kennedy takes him down, and then after a few tries, Kennedy is too rocked from each shot to put HBK down again!

Kennedy is also still showing the effects of the arm work earlier in the match too. LONG TERM SELLING = :mark:. Not enough people bother with short term selling these days, never mind long term.

:mark: Oh my, I think I blew my load! Kennedy decks HBK, but it was with the hand that Shawn worked on, and Kennedy screams in pain and can't follow up, allowing HBK to land Sweet Chin Music out of nowhere for the win!!! :mark:

"Hoping for at least a solid match here." LOL. Not even close. It's FAR above just a solid match! Tremendous stuff. Makes me wanna go back and watch their Raw match too. Think I actually still have the first Raw in HD show on my PC...

*Rating: *****
*CAL SCALE - 5*


Orton gets interviewed back stage. I groan at first because he starts off a little shitty, but then he goes on to hit it out of the park by the end. Awesome stuff from him.


*Triple H Vs Jeff Hardy - #1 Contendership Match for the WWE Championship at the Royal Rumble*

Oh my, helloooooo Lillian! Looking rather spectacular!

So we have HHH and Jeff Hardy. Two guys that on their own, I really don't care for. Together though? They just seem to click. Weird how that happens sometimes. I can dislike 2 guys in the ring on their own, but when they face each other, somehow they bring out the absolute best in themselves. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head right now lol, but hopefully I'll remember some before the match is over .

They play up nicely on the different styles of the two men here. HHH is bigger and stronger, able to knock Jeff down with shoulder blocks and vicious clotheslines. Jeff has to keep trying to use his quickness to avoid HHH's offence and land his own, and it's done very, very well at the start here.

Both are babyfaces and have that whole "respect" thing going on, but this is about getting a title shot at the RR. Jeff goes to deck HHH but hesitates, thinking this is going to be a friendly WRESTLING match. HHH responds by bitch slapping Jeff so hard he probably thinks he's Matt.

FIGHT ME~!

Now things are getting serious! No playing around, no fancy holds and counters, just two men hungry for a title shot!

Despite getting off to a pretty great start, once HHH gains full control I lose interest a little. He's never been the best guy on offence, and even with a babyface like Jeff Hardy who can get the crowd behind him and do some cool selling and shit, it's still not that exciting.

Doesn't help that EVERY cut off spot from HHH is a clothesline. Well, 99% of the time anyway.

Picks up as they go into a finishing stretch, with Hardy hitting a bunch of high flying moves, and HHH trying to avoid or counter them. And then Hardy counters a Pedigree with a pin and gets the win!

HHH sits there smiling. Because he knows he can have a WWE title match whenever the fuck he wants anyway .

Ok match. Not the best these have had though, which is disappointing. They certainly are capable of more. HHH was too dull controlling things.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


Khali is screaming at the camera. BLURGH BLARGH HOOGLBLUE. RAWR. Something like that.


*The Great Khali Vs Finlay*

Gonna see if FINLAY can get something decent out of the Punjabi Twat.

JBL goes retarded "I DON'T THINK EVEN ON HIS BEST DAY, FINAL CAN BEAT KHALI". Seriously, JBL? SERIOUSLY?

Finlay spends most of this match taking kicks to the head lol.

Yey, nerve grip. Exciting...

Sheleighly to Khali's balls! Sheleighly to Khali's head! FINLAY WINS~!

Well, I probably should have skipped this one .

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Randy Orton Vs Chris Jericho - WWE Championship Match*

So Orton ran through HBK, HHH and Cena in his title reign and whatnot... and suddenly a guy returning to the ring for the first time in 2 and a half years is going to SAVE US? Not only that, but it's Jericho? LOL. Maybe if this was for the IC title... .

How shit was Jericho's "big return" anyway lol? He did fuck all really until he turned heel and had the HBK feud... which I think is overrated (along with most of their matches).

Didn't help that everyone KNEW the whole "SAVE_US" thing was him.

Ok, I need to remove all that negativity from my mind. These two have had some super matches in the past, back in the EVOLUTION RAW days. So this COULD be good too .

Arm drag is the first move attempted in this match and... it's botched. Looked more like a wrist drag :lmao. Not sure whose fault it was though. Luckily the next 2 times Jericho goes for that move, it lands perfectly .

Christ this is dull. Then it shoots up like a fucking ROCKET when Jericho counters an RKO, hits a bulldog and follows up with the Lionsault because everyone thought he was gonna win the belt.

Aaaand then the match randomly ends up on the outside, where Orton lobs Jericho into JBL.

Walls of Jericho applied in the middle of the ring and... JBL kicks Jericho in the face and the match is mercifully over.

What a load of pointless garbage. NOTHING. That's the best way to describe this. It's a match filled with NOTHING.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Yey... Jillian Hall comes out to sing. Sad thing is, she's probably better than everyone in the charts right now 8*D.


*Mickie James Vs Beth Phoenix - WWE Women's Championship Match*

Mickie Vs Victoria at the first PPV in 07 was really good, so I'm hoping for something similar here with Mickie against Beth .

JR shouting "HEY MICKIE" during the match when she almost wins, totally not even understanding the reference he himself made and carrying on even when Lawler mentions it was probably my fav part of the match .

Not to the say the match bad, infact I enjoyed it quite a bit. Beth was powering Mickie around, then Mickie would keep trying to fight back until she finally took down the Glamazon and could start to mount some offence.

Finish just seems to come out of nowhere and falls flat as fuck, which is a shame .

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*Batista Vs Edge Vs The Undertaker - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

:mark: oh yes, one of my fav triple threat matches!!!

What's so special about this match is how it's the transition from one Undertaker feud to another, playing off things that happened MONTHS ago as well. Undertaker Vs Batista was the big WHC feud throughout 2007 (when they weren't injured lol). Edge beat Undertaker for the title during that time, when Undertaker was injured and had to take time off. That lead to Batista wanting to take the belt from Edge. They feuded, and then Edge got injured, allowing Batista to come in and eventually win back the title. Undertaker returned and again challenged Batista for the belt. They ended up inside the HIAC at Survivor Series (which I think will be the last 07 show I ramble about), where Edge returned, screwed Undertaker out of the title and put himself back into the title picture. So now all 3 men are active, all 3 men want the WHC, and all 3 men will compete here tonight! And after this match, things would then start to build to Undertaker getting his hands one on one with Edge for the title for most of 2008! 

Both Undertaker and Batista want to kill Edge. But they don't want to team up to do it. They are MEN. They are WARRIORS. And they wanna maul Edge ON THEIR OWN. Which leaves Undertaker and Batista to beat the living shit out of each other for the opportunity to get to Edge! LOVE how they structured the match this way. Makes a nice change from the typical triple threat formula.

While Taker and Batista try to kill each other, Edge plays up his "Ultimate Opportunist" character perhaps better than he ever did throughout his entire run, by sitting back and watching the two rivals going at it, then picking his spots when the time is right.

Plenty of great action throughout, will some cool moments such as Batista decking Undertaker with a clothesline, countering his apron leg drop that he was planning on doing to Edge, and Batista Spearing Undertaker while he has Edge up for the Last Ride, causing a fucking pileup of all 3 men!

Edge again continues to play up his character, this time ringing the bell while Undertaker has Batista locked in a triangle choke! Undertaker thinks it's over, let's go of Batista and gets back to his feet, only to get a Spear from Edge!

Undertaker and Batista continue to fucking murder each other, dishing out numerous big finishing moves, all the while knocking out Edges left, right and centre. Yes. EdgeS. There are 3 of them! All the constant distractions allow the REAL Edge to steak a win from Undertaker, and become the NEW World Heavyweight Champion!!!

The debut of the EDGEHEADS, Hawkins and Ryder, help Edge add another WHC win to his portfolio in an incredible match that helps end one rivalry and begins another!

<3 this match so much still.

*Rating: *****
*CAL SCALE - 5*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 16*​


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That PPV is pretty excellent in my book. I've watched it twice on the Network so far and loved it each time.
> 
> Kane/Trips is outstanding. One of Kane's top 3 singles matches ever IMO.
> 
> ...



Really?

I don't think the Chain Match is even *** 3/4.* Kept waiting for something to happen....

Infact any time Hunter has ever met Kane, Raw in 99, Wrestlemania 15, No Mercy 2002, Judgment Day 01 among others it's been pretty awful.


I'll take the Rock Bottom Buried Alive Brawl in Vancouver along with the End of an Era Fully Loaded 99 First Blood match over the match at Judgment Day 2001 and the botched ending. So anti-climatic.

I'd also take A Cold Day In Hell, outside of the dead crowd that was there best match together in my books. Austin pre-injury with Undertaker from 1997 when he rocked and showed he was capable of awesome matches as his character could now move. He showed that against Vader, Foley, Bret, Shawn, Austin and anyone else all year.

Summerslam 98 was okay, had potential outside of Austin being knocked out and all.

Backlash 02 is the single worst PPV match I think either of them ever put on. Twenty plus minutes of the worst action you will ever SEE.

Benoit-Angle is about what you said as well, the Ladder fall was pretty fun, some good bumps in that one. No where near their other matches around that time but still very good and match of the night IMO.

I always percieved Judment Day 2001 as the PPV that broke the AWESOME 2001 streak of PPV events.

And anytime I've re-watched the show (3 or 4 times) I feel the same way.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Guys, just watch Balor/Kidd and Neville/Zayn from last night's NXT. Amazing matches, both of them.

***3/4 for Balor/Kidd and ****1/4 for Neville/Zayn


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Three more reveals for the Jericho set:

— *ECW World Television Championship Match*
Chris Jericho vs. Pit Bull #2 
_ECW Hardcore Heaven • June 22, 1996

_ — *Winner Faces Hulk Hogan for the Undisputed Championship*
Chris Jericho vs. Triple H
_SmackDown • April 25, 2002_

— *Intercontinental Championship Match*
Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio
_RAW • June 15, 2009_


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Anytime Jericho went at it with pitbull I enjoyed it the four corner match that went forty plus minutes on the 
Bloodsport set with them Douglas and Scorpio I gave **** 1/2


Last nights Zayn Neville **** moty thus far


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

A 40 minute four way sounds unbelievably unappealing. Fuck. That. God bless you for watching it.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

It was single elimination and one of the most exciting ecw matches of all time actually... you should probably watch it before saying it's a chore to watch in my top 15 ecw matches of all time


I forgot smackdown moved to Wednesday's in Canada I kept thinking it was tonight that damn Thursday commercial. 

Will someone tell me if the six man main event is worth watching tonight thanks


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just watched Zayn/Neville from NXT. Super fun match, most fun I've had with current wrestling since... well since Zayn won the title probably .


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Albeit Daniel Bryan was wrestling Kane (seems everyone who wrestles Kane has a pretty damn specific and monotone gameplan usually) and it is his first match back and first match people have seen him back, I noticed Bryan didn't change a thing outside of slightly more aggression which may be chalked up to Kane's size being able to take it and him being a guy game for anything as austin and jericho have said. A bit of an eye roller, but whatever. Just an observation.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

_Bryan vs Kane SD 1/15/15 _ *- *** 1/4*

_Six Man Tag Main Event 1/15/15 _ *- *** 1/2*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Armageddon 1999:*

Battle Royal - ★★¼
Kurt Angle vs Steve Blackman - ★★
The Holly's vs Rikishi & Viscera - ¼★
Val Venis vs British Bulldog vs D'Lo Brown - ★
Kane vs X-Pac - ★★
Chris Jericho vs Chyna - ★★¾
The Rock & Mankind vs New Age Outlaws - ★★★
Big Show vs Big Boss Man - 0
Triple H vs Vince McMahon - ★★★½

Most of the undercard was whatever. Battle royal confused me because I could swear Mizark turned on Godfather just weeks ago. The others were simply there except Jericho/Chyna which was a pleasant surprise after the super dull match from SVS. Jericho did a great job carrying Chyna on this one and it was pretty evident throughout.

WWE Title match was lol-worthy but the build-up alone was worth it because Boss Man is a comedian and that "bastard" segment to close it off just continued that trend. :lol

Main event was a solid brawl but they could've easily cut 10 minutes off of it. Memorable ending too. Vince can take a hell of a beating for a non-wrestler. Now it's on to 2000 and I hope to enjoy it even more! 99 was more fun than I had expected so there's no reason 2000 shouldn't be even better.

----

On another note, XWT got fucked badly with the server attack but they're bouncing back and I found a great Bryan Danielson pack of his ROH DVDs that I'm downloading atm. Should be great.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Smackdown was actually pretty good tonight. Felt special for once because it actually was. Liked Bryan/Kane and the main event, even though the 6-man pretty much played out exactly like the tag match last week did. We got a segment between Rollins & Heyman, so that was cool. Barrett vs. Sin Cara was like 4 minutes tops, but it was still pretty fun.


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

Choke2Death said:


> On another note, XWT got fucked badly with the server attack but they're bouncing back and I found a great Bryan Danielson pack of his ROH DVDs that I'm downloading atm. Should be great.


I haven't heard about a server attack but a month or so ago there was a Bryan pack put up that had 400+ matches which included nearly every ROH/PWG match he's been in. I've watched one, I've seen a bunch of them, but I'd love to do an entire Bryan rating sort of thing.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Hey guys, I put up my Top 10 Matches of 2014, and if you want to check it out, go *here!*

Also, if you haven't already, go watch the O'Neil/Swagger matches from last week, both good considering the time they get.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Jericho week continues:

— *Last Man Standing Match*
Chris Jericho vs. Kane
_Armageddon • December 10, 2000

_ — *WCW Championship Match*
Chris Jericho vs. Kurt Angle
_Rebellion • November 3, 2001_

— *Triple Threat Tag Team Match*
Chris Jericho & Big Show vs. John Cena & The Undertaker vs. D-Generation X
_RAW • November 16, 2009_

Meh all around. That's gotta be at least the 3rd set the Madison Square Garden 3-way tag has been released on now.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cal was right (did I just say that ) Set does look kinda.....shit tbh. 

And im a Jericho fan.


----------



## TomTom94 (Oct 18, 2013)

That's why I'm only getting the Shield set and the ECW Unreleased Vol 3 set. Those one's actually look good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brock said:


> Cal was right (did I just say that ) Set does look kinda.....shit tbh.
> 
> And im a Jericho fan.


What? Me? Right?

Well DUH. I always am. ALWAYS.

Austin/Taker Backlash 2002 is awesome.

ALWAYS. RIGHT.


----------



## WaheemSterling (Nov 30, 2014)

Just re-watched that Summerslam 02 HBK v HHH 

Unreal stuff


----------



## KingCannabis (Aug 28, 2007)

#ROOT said:


> What? Me? Right?
> 
> Well DUH. I always am. ALWAYS.
> 
> ...


Ha there you go bout Austin/Taker at Backlash 2002 again. I remember awhile back in this thread or somewhere else you were praising that match. Is that like your favorite match of all time or somethin?

That match is so drawn out and ridiculous cause of Flair's annoying presence. It's been awhile since I've watched the match, but I remember back then being not too impressed. Bah, guess I'll have to watch it again now.


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

Was just watching Del Rio vs Christian from the Smackdown two weeks before Summerslam 13. Never watched it before due to the fact that I was pissed about them giving away an upcoming PPV match on TV at the time, but it was pretty good. That being said, I can add another item of evidence to the "Vince goes out of his way to fuck Christian" folder considering he wouldn't even let him go over 100% clean over fucking Del Rio. Rollup victory, jeezus.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think rollup victories are considered to be clean wins. That was a very good match though. I think they had a couple more television matches around that time period that were very good, but nobody cared about them for the same reasons that you didn't. The WWE did something similar with Rey Mysterio and Booker T in 2006. There might have been another instance in the Attitude Era as well.

Smackdown was great. Imagine a Smackdown Six of Bryan, Ziggler, Rollins, Ambrose, Cesaro, and Harper. And then bring up some NXT guys and let the IC Title be exclusive to that brand.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Aye, rollups are clean - clever and resourceful. He pinned his shoulders to the mat - what more can you ask for? For him to lay the other guy out cold? You sadist That's the one I liked as much as the SS match. Del Rio at the time had all kinds of abuse to his precious face - bruising, black eye, cut over the nose - made for a very grimey looking ADR. Thought the series as a whole was some of his best stuff during his run. 

Does anyone have a favorite pinning combination? I'm quite partial to the O'Conner roll and backslide myself.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Mahistrol Cradle or anything that El Dandy can conjure up.

Does anyone know what all the television shows WCW had in 1992? I'm guessing Saturday Night was their flagship show. Did they also have Power Hour?


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I think rollup victories are considered to be clean wins.


I'd absolutely be fine with a roll up victory if he was up against a protected main eventer like Cena or Orton but ADR was basically an upper midcarder at this point and this victory in particular was especially made to look like a fluke considering Christian was laying face down in the ring for another thirty seconds while ADR was freaking out. It's the same deal with Rey Mysterio's main event matches, "God damn, this babyface that we don't care about protecting somehow managed to win via miracle! Don't expect to see much more of that in the future!".

Ah well. At least he got to pin Sheamus in what was probably his last ever PPV match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Danielson's use of the small package will probably always always be my favorite flash pin combination. It always makes for a good nearfall too.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Mahistrol Cradle or anything that El Dandy can conjure up.
> 
> Does anyone know what all the television shows WCW had in 1992? I'm guessing Saturday Night was their flagship show. Did they also have Power Hour?


Swear you asked for this before.
*checks*
YOU DID I WIN.

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...on-continues-bobby-eaton-29.html#post38318241


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Eve's done a nice Gannosuke Clutch before. It's a little lose and flashy, but it fits well as a counter pin.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Mahistrol Cradle or anything that El Dandy can conjure up.


La Magistral can be pretty neat when done right. When it's thrown as a ham-fisted comeback/out-of-nowhere spot to win the primera without even hooking it up right, though, I tend to scratch my head.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*SummerSlam 2007*

Well, time to torture myself!

So this is the 20th SummerSlam. Did they honestly think this card was worthy of being such a high profile event? :lmao

Event has been sold out since Jan. Feel sorry for all those people who bought tickets without knowing the card :lmao.


*Kane Vs Finlay*

Well, looks like the show is going to get off to a decent start. Have a feeling it all goes downhill from here though .

Oh my god, are you kidding me? This is ANOTHER KANE FEUD BASED ON SPILT COFFEE? :lmao

Well, all I can say is, that coffee must have been DAMN HOT because Kane is out to MURDER the Irishman. Probably as STIFF as Kane has ever been 8*D.

Kane absolutely dominates and mauls Finlay early on, and seems to be working more of a SMASH MOUTH style match than you might expect from him, despite the fact he usually does like to smash people in the face lol.

Finlay finds an opportunity to gain control of Kane, and does a little rib work (Kane's ribs are taped up), but Kane is still so fired up he just keeps coming back and Finlay is back on defence.

Finlay tries to get Hornswoggle involved to help him, but the midget is terrified. Pretty sure Kane just botched knocked Hornswoggle's hat off :lmao.

CHOKESLAM~! No wait! Kane's ribs are fucked and he can't get Finlay up! NOW is the time for Finlay to turn the match around!

The sheleighly gets involved, and we have the old "ref takes it away only for Finlay to bring out another one" spot, but not even a shot to the ribs can keep the Big Red Monster down!

CHOKESLAM TO FINLAY~! KANE WINS!!!

Huh, not really sure how I feel about this match. Kane dominated 90% of it, despite the fact Finlay is one of the toughest bastards ever AND Kane was injured. Very odd. Fun to watch and a good fight, Kane looked good, but yeah, not quite how I thought the match was gonna go.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


:lmao at Regal. Vince shows up in the GM room to find that there are no women for this big SummerSlam party. So Regal blurts out "I TOLD YOU TO GET THE SCRUBBERS" :lmao.

Santino is there because... yeah. MVP shows up and wants Vince to make a "competition" between him and Matt Hardy.

Oh man, Regal killed it during the entire segment :lmao.


*Umaga Vs Mr Kennedy Vs Carlito - WWE Intercontinental Championship Match*

SO uhhh... everyone in this match is a heel, right? Bet the fans will be into this one :side:.

Umaga doesn't give a shit, and takes on both men at once because he's a fucking savage. Kennedy and Carlito try to work together, but their combined talent doesn't equal Umaga's .

Ok, so Umaga is a fucking MONSTER. At the start of the year he was mauling John Cena. Yet here, in typical truple threat fashion, he gets drop kicked out of the ring and is out of the match for a while. God I hate normal triple threat formulas lol. The Armageddon 07 triple threat was sooo much better.

OMG KENNEDY JUST SMASHED A MONITOR ONTO THE RINGPOST... I MEAN UMAGA'S HEAD. HONEST! IT TOTALLY CONNECTED WITH UMAGA'S HEAD AND NOT THE RING POST. YEY~!

Umaga still wins.

Whatever.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Rey Mysterio Vs Chavo Guerrero*

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Torrie Wilson Vs Victoria Vs Kristal Vs Michelle McCool Vs Kelly Kelly Vs Brooke Vs Layla Vs Melina Vs Mickie James Vs Beth Phoenix - #1 Contendership for the WWE Women's Championship Battle Royal Match*

I think I wrote down everyone. Probably not. Don't really care .

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


MVP and Matt Hardy do one of their competition things. It's a beer drinking contest. Hardy is a pussy and picks a substitute, to get revenge for the boxing match they had when MVP subbed Holyfield for himself. Who is Matt's sub? STONE COLD STEVE AUSTIN~!

:lmao at Austin warming up :lmao. That's the sign of a professional right there!

STUNNER~!


We return backstage to the party in Vince's office. The GOAT moment of 2007 takes place:










:lmao


*John Morrison Vs CM Punk - ECW Championship Match*

:lmao what the fuck is this? It's like they planned out a 30 minute match, only to find out there were getting 7 minutes, but decided to keep EVERYTHING in anyway :lmao.

No time for any selling, no time for ANYTHING really. They do moves and follow it up with moves and then some more moves. Twice Morrison tried to slow Punk down with a rest hold, but the moment they went to the mat in the hold, Punk was already fighting back out :lmao.

Currently on Wikipedia looking up the time of the match so I could make my point better lol... and it turns out only TWO matches on the entire show go longer than 10 minutes :lmao. Only 1 more goes over 8 :lmao. The total time for matches, on a THREE HOUR PPV is 1 hour 17 minutes :lmao.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*King Booker Vs Triple H*

HHH returns after yet another quad injury. And he decided to return and squash Booker T . I watched just because I find it hilarious. Because Booker T sucks. Duh.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*The Great Khali Vs Batista - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

:lmao this show just gets worse and worse :lmao.

Surprisingly Khali isn't too bad on offence... except for that sodding nerve grip. God I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE FUCKING H.A.T.E. THAT FUCKING HOLD. STOP IT. It should be banned.

KHALI BOMB~!

BATISTA KICKS OUT~!

Khali, despite DOMINATING this entire match... whacks Batista with a chair and gets DQ'd.

Well. That was pointless . Not as awful as I was expecting though .

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*John Cena Vs Randy Orton - WWE Championship Match*

:|

People tend to cream over this match. Those people can BURN IN HELL. No Way Out 2008 is the only match between these two men that you ever really need to see. EVER. Their matches should have ended there.

Well, the match starts off fun at least. Crowd are HOT for this one. They fucking hate Cena and are practically BEGGING for Orton (or anyone really) to take the damn title from Mr Hustle, Loyalty and Dullness. They go bakc and forth, exchanging basic holds and trying to gain control, until Cena gets blasted off the apron and crashes face first into the announce table, and it quickly becomes Orton's match.

Sleeper hold > Cena escapes > Runs the ropes > Gets hit by Orton/Misses a move > Sleeper hold. Rinse. Repeat. Me fall asleep.

That was the main portion of the match. Seriously. Urgh. Things pick up again towards the end at least. Fuck me though, can Cena do ANYTHING without running the ropes? :lmao

:lmao Cena Superman's out of nowhere and applies the STFU, and Orton's head nearly falls out from between Cena's arms because he doesn't seem to be able to apply the fucking submission properly. 8 years on and he STILL can't do it either :lmao.

RKO~!

Of course, Cena kicks out. Duh. A finishing move FINISHING a match? LOL as if!

F-U out of nowhere~! Orton kicks out... oh wait no. Cena wins lol.

*sigh* I just don't like this match much at all. Has some good stuff, but is ruined by Orton and Cena repeating the same damn sequence for the middle portion of the match and then going into a finishing stretch with no real build. And of course SUPERCENA finish.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*



*Overall CAL SCALE - -0.5*​


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

You no a Rey match only to watch a Khali/Batista match. You, Cal, you. I dunno.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I No'd a CHAVO match actually. Rey just happened to be there.

And part of the rules of the rambles is that I always have to sit through WWE and WHC matches.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah... but that was actually a GOOD Chavo match. With a GOOD Chavo performance. Rey's was superior obviously, but.... yeah, you know what I mean. You should watch it and re-write the ramble :side:.

But be glad for yourself: you already got through probably the worst show of that whole year. Now get to watch Cyber Sunday to take away the pain, man.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oddly enough I think Cyber Sunday is the next on the pile to watch lol.

And fuck Chavo/Rey . I watched some of their shite in 2006 and it was shite. No way I was putting myself through that again .

Getting closer and closer to Ramble #100 now. That was #95 .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Swear you asked for this before.
> *checks*
> YOU DID I WIN.
> 
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...on-continues-bobby-eaton-29.html#post38318241


Shit, you did win. Now I gotta go punish myself by watching Erik Watts matches.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

JustJoel said:


> Aye, rollups are clean - clever and resourceful. He pinned his shoulders to the mat - what more can you ask for? For him to lay the other guy out cold? You sadist That's the one I liked as much as the SS match. Del Rio at the time had all kinds of abuse to his precious face - bruising, black eye, cut over the nose - made for a very grimey looking ADR. Thought the series as a whole was some of his best stuff during his run.
> 
> Does anyone have a favorite pinning combination? I'm quite partial to the O'Conner roll and backslide myself.


For whatever reason, Bret Hart always had some really nifty ones in his matches that were used to either protect Bret or to protect his opponent.

My favorite is the one Davey Boy does to Bret at Wimbley in their SS 1992 match. Where Bret goes for the sunset flip but Davey kneels down and hooks Bret's legs for the 1-2-3. Really sweet finish.

Bret uses the Magistral cradle against Davey in their IYH match in 1995 and it looks pretty excellent.

Owen uses a great flash pin over Bret in their WM 10 match.

Bret pins Mr. Perfect with a rather excellent roll up in their KotR 1993 match.

Of course, Bret hits a sweet roll up on both Piper at WM 8 and Austin at SVS 1996, it's essentially the same finish but it's done really really well both times.

Finally, every time Danielson gets someone with the small package, I think their is a damn good chance the match is over so I love that. Danielson was so smart to have a roll up as his finish, now whenever he does it it fools most fans into thinking he's getting the win.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Hey guys, I actually reviewed the two Swagger/O'Neil matches as well as the New Day vs Rose/Cesaro/Kidd match from Main Event, so if you want to check it out, click *here!*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

@ATF, did you ever see what I posted for the main event at NXT: Fatal 4-Way?
@Tanner1495, **** is way too high for the Main Event 6-man, but I will agree it was pretty damn fun. Caught me by huge surprise considering the participants.

And lastly, Jericho week continues with more MEH:

— *WCW Cruiserweight Championship Match *
Chris Jericho vs. Dean Malenko
_WCW Uncensored • March 15, 1998

_ — *WWE Championship Match*
Chris Jericho vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin
_Special Outside Referee: Mick Foley_
_RAW • June 4, 2001_

— Chris Jericho vs. Evan Bourne
_Fatal 4-Way • June 20, 2010_

So much for all of these so-called "unreleased" matches...


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> @ATF, did you ever see what I posted for the main event at NXT: Fatal 4-Way?
> @Tanner1495, **** is way too high for the Main Event 6-man, but I will agree it was pretty damn fun. Caught me by huge surprise considering the participants.


I figured people wouldn't agree with ****, I am usually blown away by one of those random tag matches every 6 months or so, last year I believe it was Los Matadores and The Usos against 3MB and Curt Hawkins, I also threw it ****, but it was probably the most fun I've had watching a match this year (besides Nakamura/Ibushi) but by no means is it the 2nd best match this year. Thanks for reading though!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I did Corey, and you gave that match even more points than I did (I have it at ****1/4) 

Oh, and I'm pretty sure I'm not late in the game when I say I don't think rollups are cheat wins at all. They're perfectly clean. Replace the "t" in "cheat" with a "p", and I'll completely agree, on the other hand.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Jericho and malenko I just watched last night from uncensored its a great match a bit too short but the quality is there. The Bourne match is very good. The Austin match is okay but the whole Benoit thing drives me crazy when it comes to Chris Jericho matches selections.

Why would they select a tv mysterious match in 09 when jday, extreme rules and especially the bash would have been better options.

Oh and backlash 02 Austin undertaker should nevDr be rewatched by anybody. if you do decide to set yourself up for some unmerciful boredom just know you will never get those 25 minutes back....ever...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Unreleased is such a loose term, isn't it WWE.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> I did Corey, and you gave that match even more points than I did (I have it at ****1/4)
> 
> Oh, and I'm pretty sure I'm not late in the game when I say I don't think rollups are cheat wins at all. They're perfectly clean. Replace the "t" in "cheat" with a "p", and I'll completely agree, on the other hand.


Bob Holly says this in his book and I completely agree, unless you're doing a quick roll up for story telling purposes, like it makes sense for the feud, a roll up is a really "meh" finish and it's better to just take the guys finisher and get pinned that way. Holly said road agents would always try to give him a roll up finish to "protect" him when he was putting over new guys, and he would almost always tell them he'd prefer to take their finisher. Roll ups don't really help the victor all that much, and it can make the person who gets caught with a roll up look even more weak than if he just took the finisher. I mean look at Mick Foley, he almost ALWAYS took his opponents finisher and it never made him look less credible or weak. Foley lost about as decisively as you can lose, taking a pedigree into thumbtacks, at the Royal Rumble in 2000, and he STILL had all the fans buying him as a credible threat to Hunter the next month at No Way Out 2000. He takes ANOTHER pedigree after being thrown through the top of the Cell at NWO 2000, and he's still a credible main eventer for WM 2000.

Perfect example: wouldnt it have been 10x better for Dean Ambrose to just take a curb stomp into some steel steps at HiaC 2014, or take a Sister Abigail into a ladder at TLC 2014, rather than do those two retarded ass finishes that were meant to "protect" him? You see Dean get curb stomped into steps, you don't think he's weak for getting pinned. You think he's a fucking badass for getting up afterwards and continuing to fight in the following weeks. I just think WWE has really done no one any favors these past few years with all these screw finishes they've done while nominally trying to "protect" both guys wrestling. If one guy can't take a clean pin after a finish now and then and keep his credibility, then maybe he's not all that over to begin with. Hell, Bryan took Brays finish 100% clean at the Rumble in 2014, that finish really helped Bray and didn't hurt Bryan one iota. If you're over, you're over, fans aren't going to stop supporting you just because you lose clean every once in a while.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Any recommendations for quality ppvs from 99-01?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Backlash 1999
Most from 2000: Royal Rumble, Backlash, Judgment Day, Summerslam
2001: Royal Rumble, Backlash, WM, Survivor Series, Summerslam


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I know the product is trash, but Dean Ambrose & Roman Reigns vs Seth Rollins & Big Show from Smackdown last week was so rad. It was so much that is missing from the general populace of weekly TV by WWE, that is is astounding that something this effective came down the pike. Better continuity here than on RAW aka the "more important show" in literal months. A clean win too. Son of a bitch, that's so good I have to repeat it. A clean win in a match that is emphasized as "big". 

PS: Show as the nasty heel talking trash the entire match is fabulous.






Watch as this holds up as WWE's best match on the year for a long time, just b/c the way the company is going. At least there is _something_.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Only good PPVs in 1999 are St. Valentine Day's Massacre, Backlash, No Mercy and Armageddon. Two more weeks and I'm on to 2000. :mark:



#ROOT said:


>


Fucking Cryme Tyme. :lmao


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Is that... Cody!? Wow, been a while. Last week's tag match was in fact good and I agree it felt like a "big" match (mainly due to all three of the Shield members being in the same ring). Wait til you get to this week's show. It feels just as big with Bryan's return and gives us another quality tag match.

Did you happen to see the Ambrose/Wyatt Ambulance match? I really loved that one. Fantastic selling from Ambrose.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm waiting for SD to show up on youtube to give it a watch. Might just watch the whole show, idk. But def will be there for the Danielson stuff.

Ambrose's selling was admirable. But that match was putrid garbage. That means it was garbage that was sitting out in the hot sun and started to get that liquid base below it. Basically all of what makes WWE awful today in one match. I viewed it as a 20 minute joke, man. Not my thing.

I came back in here to shit on Undertaker vs Triple H from KOTR '02 instead and but something w/Ambrose got my wrath. I didn't mean for this to happen. But yeah, that KOTR match is even worse than I remember. Omg. Undertaker vs Triple H matches kind of end up being cancer. Between this & WM 27; if that's all I knew Undertaker from, my life may have been different. Triple H is horrible and it's too bad Vince always had a chub for him b/c god, never should have moved past the midcard.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

"had a chub for him" is quite possibly the greatest expression I've heard. I'll be using that.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*NXT Takeover: R-Evolution

*Kevin Owens vs. CJ Parker - :mark:

*NXT Tag Team Championship
*The Lucha Dragons (c) vs. The Vaudevillians - **

Baron Corbin vs. Tye Dillinger - SQUASH

The Ascension vs. Finn Balor & Hideo Itami - ** 3/4

*NXT Women's Championship
*Charlotte (c) vs. Sasha Banks - *** 1/2

*NXT Championship - Zayn's Career on the Line
*Adrian Neville (c) vs. Sami Zayn - ****+


- It's so surreal seeing Kevin Steen not only debuting in a WWE ring, but actually being one of the major focal points of it. Incredible. He doesn't seem watered down at all and it was an almost perfect squash. Fingers crossed they keep him strong.

- Aiden English looks almost exactly like Claudio Castagnoli circa 2005, so that's neat. Outside of that, the match pretty much felt like an extended squash. Didn't get a whole lot of time. Another exhibition for the Dragons, really.

- Skipping over the Corbin squash, how bout that Devitt entrance huh? Man that crowd was ready to go down and lick his balls. :lol I really liked the first half of this match. Ascension cutting the ring off and giving us a good ol Southern Style tag match was about the only thing they did well. The back half of the match had some decent moments but really could've been better as a whole. None of these four looked in sync and the Ascension are just flat out awful, plain and simple. I'm very curious to see if they're gonna change Itami's moveset though. The running knee is Bryan's thing and idk if he'll keep using the GTS or not. We shall see.

- Sasha Banks just caught my attention BIG time. What a performance and what an awesome match. I loved all the Flair mockery and Charlotte as a face totally works for me. That moonsault where she landed on her feet and turned it into a front flip was IMPRESSIVE. I liked all the other matches, but this one puts Charlotte's encounters with Natalya & Bayley to shame. Great stuff here.

- I had pretty damn high expectations for the main event due to the insane amount of hype and the GOAT reviews it was getting. Not saying it disappointed me or anything, but I didn't feel like it was amazing I guess. By far my favorite portions of the match were Neville's scouting. Constantly, time after time he would reverse one of Zayn's signature moves or just avoid them completely. That was awesome. They had some great action, good character development, and some nice false finishes, but I do have two minor gripes with the match. I really wish they would've let them go out there and just WRESTLE. I thought the overbooking near the end was a tad unnecessary. The last ref bump looked like a stretch and then Neville REAAAALLLY stretched it out by acting like he got hit with a fucking cannon while looking drunk on the mat. It kind of annoyed me how Neville acted like he had taken so much punishment when in reality he was the one dishing it out. Outside of that, this is obviously a great match and a great moment. The aftermath is (again) completely surreal but god damn why did it take so long? I felt like Zayn celebrated for a good 10 minutes before Owens finally did the attack. I imagine a lot of people had stopped watching by that point. 

- No Tyler Breeze and no Tyson Kidd on this show.  I still think the first Takeover is my favorite NXT special this far. Another one comin soon!​


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Anyone have an opinion of the Stone Cold v. HHH match from Survivor Series 2000? I do not know what to expect because despite my constant HHH-fanboying and loving Stone Cold, they don't seem to have best chemistry as opponents.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Just watch the ending on YouTube. Spend that free time watching Rock/Jericho vs. Benoit/HHH earlier that year.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Austin/Hunter SVS '00 is a trainwreck. Near DUD levels. The ending is just :lmao.

Their best match is probably either NWO '01 (fuck the haters :side or NM '99... probably the only two good matches they've had together, honestly. The trio of Taker/Hunter/Austin never really seemed to have much chemistry w/each other.



Hayley Seydoux said:


> *I'm waiting for SD to show up on youtube to give it a watch. Might just watch the whole show, idk. But def will be there for the Danielson stuff.*
> 
> Ambrose's selling was admirable. But that match was putrid garbage. That means it was garbage that was sitting out in the hot sun and started to get that liquid base below it. Basically all of what makes WWE awful today in one match. I viewed it as a 20 minute joke, man. Not my thing.
> 
> I came back in here to shit on Undertaker vs Triple H from KOTR '02 instead and but something w/Ambrose got my wrath. I didn't mean for this to happen. But yeah, that KOTR match is even worse than I remember. Omg. Undertaker vs Triple H matches kind of end up being cancer. Between this & WM 27; if that's all I knew Undertaker from, my life may have been different. Triple H is horrible and it's too bad Vince always had a chub for him b/c god, never should have moved past the midcard.


Well, the Bryan stuff delievered. Bryan/Kane was good (about as good as you can expect a modern day Kane match to be, and this is coming from a guy that likes Kane), and the Main Event was very Shield'ish and put last week's already good one to shame, quite frankly. Then, Barrett/Cara was fun and the Rollins/Heyman promo was quite the goods. You won't feel sorry for giving the whole show a try, honestly.

EDIT: Btw, have you watched R-Evolution and the last few episodes of NXT (including the goodies like Charlotte/Sasha II, Neville/Owens, Kidd/Bálor and Zayn/Neville IV)?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cal was right, I repeat, Cal was right. 

Benoit/Angle from Judgment Day was pretty TRASH tbh. Just nothing eventful seemed to happen, was as flat as hell imo. Ladder portion had a couple of decent spots as expected, but nah, not for me.

Just watched the Raw with the Trips/Austin vs Benoit/Jericho match. R.I.P Powertrip.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brock said:


> Cal was right, I repeat, Cal was right.
> 
> Benoit/Angle from Judgment Day was pretty TRASH tbh. Just nothing eventful seemed to happen, was as flat as hell imo. Ladder portion had a couple of decent spots as expected, but nah, not for me.


I'm totally not shocked . OF COURSE I WAS RIGHT. I always am. ALWAYS~!

So turns out Cyber Sunday 07 isn't the next DVD on my pile to watch, but The Great American Bash is. Genuinely interested in the event because I remember NOTHING of Cena/Lashley except for the finish, and only because the finish was shown in the video package for Cena/Orton at SummerSlam lol.

And hey, speaking of The Great American Bash (I love how this all comes together without me having to put any effort into connecting shit myself lol), today's ramble on my BLOG~! (everyone still remembers I have a BLOG~!, right? ) is the 2005 edition! Featuring one of my all time favourite matches ever! Sure, most of you have already read it. But go read it again. Just because .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Well, the Bryan stuff delievered. Bryan/Kane was good (about as good as you can expect a modern day Kane match to be, and this is coming from a guy that likes Kane), and the Main Event was very Shield'ish and put last week's already good one to shame, quite frankly. Then, Barrett/Cara was fun and the Rollins/Heyman promo was quite the goods. You won't feel sorry for giving the whole show a try, honestly.
> 
> EDIT: Btw, have you watched R-Evolution and the last few episodes of NXT (including the goodies like Charlotte/Sasha II, Neville/Owens, Kidd/Bálor and Zayn/Neville IV)?


Maybe the six man is better b/c of the Danielson addition, but I'll reserve the viewing to judge. b/c the tag match last week hit so many sweet points for me. Not sold on a Barrett vs Hunico match either, b/c well, it's obvious. I'll probably watch the promo. Heard that was good even from the spoiler tapings. All depends on my mood. I liked a Dragon Gate show last night, so anything is possible.

I'm about two weeks behind on NXT. I think. But yeah, of course I saw R-Evolution. As for the post-PPV stuff: Steen match was good stuff. Nice to see Neville back as 100% babyface. The Charlotte vs Sasha rematch was forgettable & unless they had another match that I missed, didn't like Kidd vs Devitt either.

Rather watch Devitt work the tag matches vs Ascension, personally. Those were effective contests.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I suppose you're talking about the first Kidd/Devitt, when I was talking about this week's which was WAY superior (and watch the Zayn/Neville rematch too btw, super smart match imo) 

And just bc it's fun to listen to other folks opinions, could you express out your thoughts on R-Evolution?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ahh, another match. Got ya.

I thought it was a blast. I usually tend to be hyped for the NXT "PPVs" & this proved to be no different. I probably don't need to even express much of anything for Zayn vs Neville. Best moment of the year, by far. Perfect match, perfect everything. Waiting for it for almost too long. But the pay off was soooooo sweet. And post-match. It was a mess of emotions. One half awesome & other half heartbreaking. But at least there was a celebration. And a Sami Callihan sighting. :mark:

Charlotte vs Sasha was p. great. Even outside of a general "WWE divas" quality. Which is only said to celebrate mediocrity. Thought the two worked supremely well off each other & it honestly the best women's title match pumped out from the NXT brand. Charlotte vs Bayley was really swell, and the other two...were yeah. So this continued the stretch of improvement that has been seen for each title match on each big event. Actually was worth behind this match. On the nearfalls, on the thought process of who would leave as champion, etc. It really did feel as if fighting for the championship meant something. Again, past the point of dames. Just nice to see a championship in WWE territory mean this much. And NOT have it be the flagship strap, a la the NXT Championship.

Tag match was rock solid. Ascension get way too much grief for something they don't even do poorly. I'll never quite understand it. This main roster BS doesn't count. Obviously that's a joke. But their work on NXT was fine, if not effective to what they were supposed to produce. Not sure what they should be doing instead. Flips? Submissions? More nearfalls? Foreign objects? See, idk. KENTA is p. mute w/his emotions and I'm never really been big on him, so he was just kind of "there" for me yet again in this. G2S tease was great. Such a pop. Devitt looked good. He's capable of being a punching bag next to huge dudes to create sympathy & able to work a sufficient hot tag. His talents don't really need to be harped much, b/c most would say he's good, if not great. Entrance was phenomenal; he has a real flare for that side of wrestling & I think it is fabulous. Especially in a place like WWE. If they keep their head on their shoulders, he should be a-ok. Fingers crossed.

Steen's debut. My god. Now that's a mess of fun. Best part was after his entrance and out comes CJ Parker. A dirty, no good hippie. That moment it was surreal time and realizing that Kevin Steen isn't in Kansas anymore. He's in WWE. He went through most of his arsenal like he should & the crowd was equally as explosive in welcoming to the show. Quite frankly, it doesn't get any better than something like this. And holy hell, BLOOD sighting, amirite? That just felt like something that would happen in a Kevin Steen match. 8*D Would have prefered the Fisherman's Neckbreaker to be his finisher, but pop-up powerbomb will do. Especially to smaller guys like Parker or Neville. Mr. Powerbomb seems to be in tact.

Baron Corbin squash was all the same, but that's not a bad thing. Beating an actual member of the roster on the show was logical. I like it & I like him. Works for me. Looking forward to the collision vs Bull. I dig the "something has to give" vibe of both unstoppable forces colliding.

Tag titles wasn't good, but partially not surprised. I feel like they almost don't give the tag division too much of a chance to shine. Kalisto still does b/c he's incredible, but outside of him, the rest of the bunch just seem to kind of hang around. Yesh, I do feel there have been some nice sprints on the weekly TV, but big matches always fail to connect in the long run.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Thoughts on Rude/Steamboat from Superbrawl 92? Watched it this morning after not seeing it in years, and it really bothered me how Rick Rude only did one move when he had his 20 minute control segment. Steamboat's attempts at comebacks were pretty cool and I liked his reversal of Rude's sleeper hold into his own as well as the big superplex nearfall. Unfortunately, there just wasn't enough Steamboat offense in this match.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Zayn/Neville Takeover went up to ***** for me on last viewing. 

Probably my favourite match to watch now.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Vader carrying Giant Gonzales to a good match. Listen to that crowd go crazy for Big Van.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm probably the only person in this thread who has the NXT Fatal 4-Way over Zayn/Neville, but that's ok with me. 

Final reveals for Jericho week. Looks like a big giant skip for me.

— Chris Jericho vs. Edge
_RAW • March 7, 2005_

— Chris Jericho vs. Rob Van Dam
_RAW • July 15, 2013_

— *Steel Cage Match*
Chris Jericho vs. Bray Wyatt
_RAW • September 8, 2014_


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Could that Jericho set be anymore random?

That tag match last week on Smackdown was nothing special IMO. Big Show is a giant waste and has been only employed for so long due to his "WOW LOOK AT HIM" appeal. He has turned heel more times then worth remembering and I know everything I am about to see whenever he works any kind of match.

Of course the other three guys in that match are THE SHIELD so most of the action is pretty good, especially for TV. I was more of a fan of the Six Man Tag over this match, and I'd say the Ambulance match, Ziggler vs Barrett, and the triple threat tag from Smackdown! between The Uso's, Dust's and Mizdow were better.

*** territory.


Just re-watched Disc of Bret Hart's Dungeon Collection and I really loved the old stuff. I remember the first time I watched this DVD I couldn't get into the older stuff because of the quality, but getting behind the quality the amateur-wrestling is very good and actually lightyears ahead of the WWF's big time guys at the time, pacing wise.

I really liked the tag against the Islanders as well. Haku was great.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Oh yeah, The Dungeon Collection is one of my favorite releases of the last few years. Every match is worth a watch and I just loved the concept. The MSG against Taker & tag match against the Twin Towers were two of my favorites. A blu ray match against Yoko was a treat as well.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

lol @ the Jericho set. I had low expectations after he gave his piece in regards to Chris Benoit not appearing but the TV matches are so random. I know 2005 pretty well but I have no recollection of that Edge match listed. I do recognize their match from the first Raw of the year as well as the Gold Rush but not that one.

Only the Mysterio match from Raw is of any interest to me.

Only one week left in 1999. I swear sometimes it feels like I'm watching the current product with HHH and Stephanie in charge now Vince and Shane have left the screen. Can't believe Rock actually jobbed to Al Snow. He's been the MVP of the year despite terrible booking for someone as over as him, almost like a predecessor to Daniel Bryan. The promo where he mocks Billy Gunn's theme and says "Well, I'm an ass-hole" might be my favorite moment of the whole year. :lol

A random question that popped up in my mind a few days ago, when did Benoit start using the Crossface as his finisher? I noticed that during watching his stuff in Japan and WCW up until 1997 that he doesn't have a clear finisher and usually wins matches with a top rope maneuver. I found a video of a Finlay match from late 97 when he made him tap to the Crossface so I assume around that time is when it became his finisher.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I know the product is trash, but Dean Ambrose & Roman Reigns vs Seth Rollins & Big Show from Smackdown last week was so rad. It was so much that is missing from the general populace of weekly TV by WWE, that is is astounding that something this effective came down the pike. Better continuity here than on RAW aka the "more important show" in literal months. A clean win too. Son of a bitch, that's so good I have to repeat it. A clean win in a match that is emphasized as "big".
> 
> PS: Show as the nasty heel talking trash the entire match is fabulous.
> 
> ...


First wrestling match I've watched in a long, long time. That was sweet. Tried and tested formula executed at a high level and taken to an even higher level by the individual performances. Show was gold in this. Ambrose was fantastic as well. Reigns and Rollins on point. Good use of the goons on the outside (Rollins giving them high fives was great). And as you pointed out a clean finish that gave the match a meaningful, satisfactory ending. Enjoyable stuff from bell to bell. I would co-sign on it being the best WWE match of the year but it's the only thing I've seen this year so yeah. Very good match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well by golly, if you liked that one so much, you're bound to like this one too:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Blasphemy. Best WWE match of 2015 so far is easily Zayn/Neville IV. Not even close. You guys should go watch it as soon as possible. One of the smartest worked rematches in years quite frankly.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Saint Dick said:


> First wrestling match I've watched in a long, long time. That was sweet. Tried and tested formula executed at a high level and taken to an even higher level by the individual performances. Show was gold in this. Ambrose was fantastic as well. Reigns and Rollins on point. Good use of the goons on the outside (Rollins giving them high fives was great). And as you pointed out a clean finish that gave the match a meaningful, satisfactory ending. Enjoyable stuff from bell to bell. *I would co-sign on it being the best WWE match of the year but it's the only thing I've seen this year so yeah*. Very good match.



:lol

But seriously...as Jack Evans said the Ambulance match or that 6 man are better.

And it's true Neville-Zayn is the MOTY thus far IMO to ATF, and to me it is close, the Ambulance is just a bit behind.

That tag match might of seemed fresh to you since you haven't been watching lately, but those guys have been doing the same thing every week in their matches and this match did not feel like anything special at all, to me at least.


----------



## Sweettre15 (Feb 27, 2014)

So word has it that Daniel Bryan has a 3 Disc DVD/2 Disc Blu-Ray set coming out in June. The working title is supposedly "Just Say YES! YES! YES!"

I really hope they go super in-depth on his career in the documentary portion because Bryan's life story and career makes for an epic documentary on it's own and if they add Rollins, Sapolsky, HBK, Cesaro, AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, Chris Hero, Nigel McGuinness, Sami Zayn, Hideo Itami, Kevin Owens, Finn Balor, Kane, Stephanie McMahon, Dolph Ziggler, Kane, HHH, Orton, Miz, Cena, Austin, Foley, and Dean Ambrose as the featured stars on the documentary then it could be really epic since he'd be able to cover most of the major feuds in his career along with highlight feuds that were good but didn't last that long.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wouldn't surprise me if they did what they are doing with the Shield set and just releasing the Journey to WM documentary with a few extended scenes and whatnot.

What we actually need for Bryan is a Punk-like documentary. God, Punk's documentary is tremendous. 2nd best wrestling doc ever imo, right behind Nigel's.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hey Cal... where's our BASH? 8*D


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Not too fussed on the match selection for that Bryan set, as i have pretty much all of his best ones, and alot from WWE too, I just want what Cal said, a proper in depth doc tbh.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

machomark said:


> :lol
> 
> But seriously...as Jack Evans said the Ambulance match or that 6 man are better.
> 
> ...


Perhaps. They ticked a lot of boxes for me though. The heel work was basic but very effective. Loved Big Show talking smack. Has he been doing that every week? So down for more of that. He also had a killer looking knee to Ambrose whose selling was stellar throughout. Thought it was a really good example of a shortish match never skipping a beat and doing everything it needed to in the time allotted. I wouldn't call it great but it was definitely better than good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Hey Cal... where's our BASH? 8*D


*shrugs*

I was about to start it yesterday... but MVP was in the first match and I decided to play more Dragon Quest VI instead.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Saint Dick said:


> machomark said:
> 
> 
> > But seriously...as Jack Evans said the Ambulance match or that 6 man are better.
> ...



Yea show has been doing tht every week since he's been heel and what's worse is he's been back and forth for twenty years now and by now I'm sick of it.

It works fine if you haven't seen it in awhile I'd imagine. 

I for one think that match was better then good *** not match of the month tho I'd have five or six ones ahead.

Bryan Kane
Barrett Ziggler (arguably for the story anyhow)
six man tag last sd
Triple Threat tag on sd 
two nxt matches with Neville zayn rematch on the 14th being moty for 15 and then the ambulance match on Raw 1/5/15 between Ambrose and wyatt as the runner up
ambulance match

Then I'd say the tag is after those six


Hasn't been a good month but let's see what tonights raw smackdown the rumble amf the shows after can bring us


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Well by golly, if you liked that one so much, you're bound to like this one too:


Definitely dug that one too. I didn't enjoy it quite as much as the other tag but that could be down to me being tired when I watched it or my mood or something. Ambrose and Show were the standout performers again. Kane didn't add much and come to think of it that could be one of the reasons I liked the prior match more. Not that he was bad, things just flowed better without him the week before. 

Also watched Bryan vs Kane. That was just okay.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> *shrugs*
> 
> I was about to start it yesterday... but MVP was in the first match and I decided to play more Dragon Quest VI instead.


Good call on DQ6. Though I surely like VIII more :side:.

Btw, I would say that Matt/MVP GAB does benefit from a cocky Matt Hardy performance. Don't remember the match, but I never remembered it as BAD per say.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Anyone got a decent link for the Ambrose/Wyatt ambulance match? The one I found on dailymotion was horrible quality.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

2007 Bash has Hardy/Umaga. No hesitation should exist.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Saint Dick said:


> Jack Evans 187 said:
> 
> 
> > Well by golly, if you liked that one so much, you're bound to like this one too:
> ...


I'm like this too infant I'd suggest almost every wrestling fan when rating matches is partial to the mood they are in at the time they view it. It's just normal which is why Meltzers ratings are all the more impressive since he does them after they happen and never changes it.

Although I'd like to think he rewatches some of them before giving his final decision.


I never said Kane and Bryan was great I just said it was In the same class that tag match was or a bit ahead..in that ones case. Just like big show I have no use for Kane anymore either but I'm biased to the monster vs the underdog technician type matches versus Bryan or benoit, etc. (same way I was with Nash or taker versus bret)



Anyway Daniel Bryan vs Bray Wyatt right now could easily be the match of the year so far given what they did at last years rumble.

So far though we have seen one Minute of action, kanes music hit and the commercials have been on three and a half minutes.

Awesome.


Oh for god sakes then we got five minutes of pretty good stuff not as far as work goes but in telling the story of wyatt taking apart a man returning from Injury then Bryan does a snitsky on London flip off the clothesline and yay another God damn commercial.

Back ten years ago in 2005 matches barely ever got Interupted and if they did it was once.

And in the attitude era it wasn't at all 
unless the matches ram over seven or eight mImites which was rare in that era.


Lmao at the crowd chanting this is awesome just beccause two of the best going were having an avenrage match but in all fairness to them there match wasn't interrupted by two commercials combining at over five minutes and forty three seconds of a 13 minute match.

They are booking wyatt strong but the way they present matches has gotta change.

** for the match but who know's maybe it was closer to three if we didn't miss half of it.

Don't tell me they can't book it differently either the show is three god damn hours thhave uninterupted twenty minute opening segments and such...


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I tuned in to Raw for the first time in months and stopped watching after the opening segment. Can't deal with Cena overcomes the odds vol. 93 :vince



machomark said:


> I never said Kane and Bryan was great I just said it was In the same class that tag match was or a bit ahead..in that ones case. Just like big show I have no use for Kane anymore either but I'm biased to the monster vs the underdog technician type matches versus Bryan or benoit, etc. (same way I was with Nash or taker versus bret)


Ambrose/Reigns v Rollins/Show was miles better than Bryan/Kane imo. To each their own.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

You haven't missed much we have seen one match in one hour and a half.

Oh and while Cena was the focus of the opening segment building to tonight's maim event he's just a filter they are actually building Rollins up more and lesnar got more time tonight Then he has in months...so u really would of hated the last two months.

I happen to think whatever happens at the rumble Cena won't be anywhere near the main event.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Blasphemy. Best WWE match of 2015 so far is easily Zayn/Neville IV. Not even close. You guys should go watch it as soon as possible. One of the smartest worked rematches in years quite frankly.


Taped in 2014. I won't start counting NXT until this week.



machomark said:


> That tag match might of seemed fresh to you since you haven't been watching lately


I haven't stopped watching WWE, despite it's terrible stuff. So that point is...idk. I'll just say vintage 101.

--------

This RAW is trash other than Big Show being great, so yeah. Watched last week's SD. Danielson vs Kane was fun, I enjoyed Kane targeting the neck early and often. Kane put effort into both matches & you can tell. First time since the last match he had w/Danielson, tbhayley. He's still a solid hand in that department. Danielson looked about as good as I would have hoped. Ran through his hot streak spots and the fans were still digging it every step of the way. Nice match.

Six man was good stuff. Doesn't top the tag match last week b/c that felt like a culmination of so much that should have been done sooner, but at least it got done. This match was more of a vessel for Danielson to return on, as it should be, so someone like Reigns kind of got shafted aside just to have a brief interaction w/Show, rather than add his elements to the match. Dean was great in this. Got so much to play off his bum knee angle and the dude is just so much fun to watch. Heels were all quality in it too. Shame we didn't get Show talking as much trash, but at least Rollins was sufficient in this area. He used to do it weekly while w/the Shield. This was another good tag that revisits back to not that long ago when this was super common. Shame that is lost these days, but two weeks in a row the main event tags have worked for me. Hopefully this is a sign. Certainly isn't for RAW, but SD there still can be hope.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Have they run any Ambrose/Show singles matches? Based on the last two SmackDown main events that's a match I want to see.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not yet. Hopefully down the line. Def has lots of potential to rule.

Did you see Show vs Ryback from SD a few weeks ago? Fun times.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

machomark going full on rant mode tonight. :lol

In-ring wise, this RAW has been severely lackluster. I did enjoy Bryan/Wyatt, but those commercial breaks sucked. That tag team reunion segment was hilariously fun though. The Ascension are such a fucking joke. Dean Ambrose beat Bad News Barrett clean, so that's neat.

Main event will be horrible tonight.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Joke or not, that burial was exactly why WWE is such a joke. Supporting it is :lmao

No different than WCW.


----------



## FireCena555 (Dec 24, 2014)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Joke or not, that burial was exactly why WWE is such a joke. Supporting it is :lmao
> 
> No different than WCW.


Then why you on a wrestling forum?


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

FireCena555 said:


> Then why you on a wrestling forum?


cody can still talk about his favourite promotions PWG and ROH on here, guy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It might have something to do w/the word "wrestling". But has everything to do w/the word "forum".


----------



## Born of Osiris (Oct 29, 2013)

FireCena555 said:


> Then why you on a wrestling forum?


What the fuck does this mean? :drake1


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Awesome RAW. Everything was great except for Big Show.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Two weeks in a row RAW has ended on a huge high note. I had a hard-on for Lesnar tonight.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Awesome RAW. *Everything was great* except for Big Show.


:mase


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wait, I seriously don't remember what last week's ending was. What was it?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You're a Seth Rollins fan and you don't remember?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Wait, I seriously don't remember what last week's ending was. What was it?


Hahaha. The contract signing. Rollins curb stomping Lesnar.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tells you how awful everything is.

oh. A contract signing. :lmao Where he didn't cash in on the champion being KO'ed for minutes. Damn, how did that slip my mind? Impressive fail.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It made perfect sense for him not to cash in. I expected better from you.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Tells you how awful everything is.
> 
> oh. A contract signing. :lmao Where he didn't cash in on the champion being KO'ed for minutes. Damn, how did that slip my mind? Impressive fail.


Wowwwwww. Why did this not even cross my mind? :lol

Guess I was too invested in the idea of Rollins literally asking for an ass whooping come this week/Rumble time.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Tells you how awful everything is.
> 
> oh. A contract signing. :lmao Where he didn't cash in on the champion being KO'ed for minutes. Damn, how did that slip my mind? Impressive fail.


The logic behind that is simple when you consider the contract had been signed and he would have to defend it against Lesnar and Cena at the Rumble, anyways, with likely a bigger target on his back than there already is.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The problem here is you've come to care too much about me, altogether.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Great ending, truely great but once again, a rather glaring weakness in the WWE putting way too much emphasis on the past and banking on nostalgia reared its head. You have a pretty damn talented group of young guys , many of whom suffer from the inept creativesystem/vince, yet instead of cultivating the future and conveying to the audience that the new crop is the real deal, wwe so often tries to remind everyone how good their business was in the past. Commentary cannot call shit regular talent, but when a collection of over the hill, dull acts like the Stone Age Outlaws and Sean Waltman alongside Kevin Nash comes along, Cole busts a nut since Vince loves to play his nostalgia as a cop out for the inconsistencies of today. Obviously, it is different with an all time great and/or guy who still has plenty of entertainment value in Michaels, but bustig a nut for the fucking APA in 2015 when the rough, tough badass factor just inst there anymore I'm probably alone here , but damn. Alot of this is a commentary gripe, but philisophically, I disagree with the copout.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Not yet. Hopefully down the line. Def has lots of potential to rule.
> 
> Did you see Show vs Ryback from SD a few weeks ago? Fun times.


Nah. I've literally only seen three matches this year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Give it a shot. I think you'll like it. iirc that SD had at least 3, maybe even 4 fun matches. But I'd have to look it up again b/c sometimes the shows cross in my mind as of late.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Skipped Raw like I have for every show since November (except the final one from 2014). Will just check out Brock destroying the henchmen tomorrow and that's it.

Away from the bullshit, the Bryan Danielson ROH DVD sets finished downloading and I decided to go for the highly praised Kenta match from Glory by Honor V. I don't know what others in here think about it but I generally see it praised as Bryan's greatest match everywhere else. I thought it was pretty good but a little too long in building up to the pretty good finishing stretch.

Watched this one yesterday and prefer it between the two because it's shorter and gets to the point faster.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Not sure if you guys saw, but they announced a bunch of matches for the Rumble tonight and none of them are singles matches. 

Elimination Match: The New Day vs. Adam Rose, Cesaro, & Tyson Kidd (Pre-Show)
The Ascension vs. The New Age Outlaws (this has WOAT written all over it)
Paige & Natalya vs. The Bella Twins

Add all of those to Usos/Mizdow AGAIN and I can definitely say I have no interest in anything on this PPV outside of the WWE Title match and the Rumble itself. Luckily though, those two have major major hype. The preshow match may end up being better than half the main card, honestly.

-------------------------------------------------
@Saint Dick, did you still need a link to the Ambrose/Wyatt Ambulance match? If so:


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

They've literally just run that pre-show match on Main Event. Like literally as in last week.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah the one on main event was a straight up 6-man though (surprisingly fun match I might add). This one will be elimination. 

They've ran Cesaro & Kidd vs. two members of New Day back to back weeks on RAW too.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Atleast it's a two match show for me this year. Usually I only look forward to the Rumble match only (though I did love Bryan vs Wyatt last year).


Bryan vs Wyatt 2.0 on Raw was great again. D Bry looks to be back in form already.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> Away from the bullshit, the Bryan Danielson ROH DVD sets finished downloading and I decided to go for the highly praised Kenta match from Glory by Honor V. I don't know what others in here think about it but I generally see it praised as Bryan's greatest match everywhere else. I thought it was pretty good but a little too long in building up to the pretty good finishing stretch.


I wasn't a huge fan, and to tell you the truth I couldn't tell you why. Objectively I thought it was very good but I watched it around the time that people were making Best of 2000s lists and calling it a MOTDC. I felt disappointed by it. I have no idea what I'd think of it if I watched it now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Still p. perfect for me. Talking like "go-to" KENTA match usually. Even if Danielson is the reason why I'm super huge on it. Not to sell KENTA short or anything. But the whole working 33 minutes flat, keeping it engaging, & not lagging at all w/a dislocated shoulder + torn tendons is straight up incredible. Fucker does a dive to the outside in it. Danielson is a mad man.

Not my favorite match from him though. Or what I'd dub "the best". I usually jump towards vs Takeshi Morishima from Man Up.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Ambrose/Wyatt ambulance fell victim to the usual WWE gimmick match bullshit. Shame because Dean's selling performance was excellent.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep. It's pitiful other than Dean's quality selling.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I didn't think it was bad. Actually thought it was quite solid up until they went into 'wait for the next big spot' mode towards the end. You know something's wrong when a guy jumps off an ambulance and puts the other guy through a table and I'm completely numb to it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Everything about it is so far under apathetic it is scary. The "action" throughout even outside of any of the generic weapon play, is all too generic in its own right. Hard to differentiate one Ambrose vs Bray gimmick match from the other. And they never end. Constant 20 minutes of "set up, do something, probably w/a table, repeat." Then Ambrose looks like a moron and loses. 

I'm just glad it's over.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Skipped Raw like I have for every show since November (except the final one from 2014). Will just check out Brock destroying the henchmen tomorrow and that's it.
> 
> Away from the bullshit, the Bryan Danielson ROH DVD sets finished downloading and I decided to go for the highly praised Kenta match from Glory by Honor V. I don't know what others in here think about it but I generally see it praised as Bryan's greatest match everywhere else. I thought it was pretty good but a little too long in building up to the pretty good finishing stretch.
> 
> Watched this one yesterday and prefer it between the two because it's shorter and gets to the point faster.



The KENTA match is great, but for me personally the 6th Anniversary Show bout vs Nigel is the best match he's ever had. Their match at Unified 2006 is also GREAT. And of course Manhattan Mayhem and Man Up vs Takeshi Morishima are absolutely golden. Manhattan mayhem is were he fractures his orbital bone mid match and keeps working through it, even taking some ridiculous forearms from Shima directly to the eye. I have no idea how he ever did that.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

I'd say the Morishima and a couple Nigel matches are better than the KENTA matches. Vs. Morishima (Manhattan Mayhem II or Man Up especially) are the go to matches to see how fucking incredible Danielson is as an underdog, and to see how awesome Danielson/Lesnar could potentially be.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

United vs Nigel and both Morishima matches are probably his BEST, but I damn sure know my favorite one is the GWH one w/KENTA. The man was just out of the world w/that performance, and for his credit, KENTA was an epic dickhead too. I remember enjoying the tag w/Black against the Wolves too, but that was a long, long time ago when I last watched it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I've seen Manhattan Mayhem and Unified before, both were excellent. I'll get my Danielson fix because these DVDs have just about everything that gets praised from his indy years, one of them has like 5 Morishima matches so I assume that's the entire series I've heard about before. I'm just trying to play catch up because here's one WWE guy now who is a major player that already had a big legacy in the indys and I feel it's only fair to see what he's all about (even though I already know).

Also props to him for working through the KENTA match with a shoulder dislocated. I don't know when it happened because I didn't notice anything that was off about his performance. He just went at it full bore without missing a beat.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Have you gotten over the shite production values?


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

I wanted to like Bryan vs Wyatt but as I said....for those of us who didn't PVR or watch a stream, or caught the action through some device and weren't interupted by adds here is how the match ran down.

*Minute 1:* Daniel Bryan and Bray Wyatt so your typical match start hitting so and so back and forth till Bryan goes to the floor and Kane's music hits.

*Minutes 2-5:* *Commercials just over 3 minutes.

*Minutes 6-8:* Bryan back in the ring hits some desperate offense but then Wyatt takes control. Wyatt goes for the neck of Bryan which is smart and then slaps a sleeper on which takes a good minute up of this three minute piece of the match we are about to see. It ends with a terrific clothesline which Bryan flips over inside out then goes to the floor hurting his neck. The suspense of it all? The CLIFFHANGER for us to stay tuned? Can Bryan make a return!? Don't get the sarcasm wrong it's good story-telling but I'm already pissed off it's the second time they've cut to a commercial when I have seen three minutes of action and a one minute sleeper hold.


*Minutes 9-12*: Commercials just over 2 and a half minutes.



*Minutes 13-16:* So now we get to see the final three and a half minutes. And back from the break Bryan is in control and does the yes kicks, the two do some pretty nice reversals and hit some pretty good moves with nearfalls, and this all of the sudden makes Dallas chant "THIS IS AWESOME!" Really, wow? Well maybe if you saw the whole thing it could of seemed awesome, after all both these guys are awesome but as a viewer we were robbed. Wyatt goes over.


I wanted to love this match, I thought it could be an early MOTY contender but when you consider the layout to how the match was seen on tv how on earth can it justify anything over a ** 1/2 rating?

I give it ** and I really hope they re-book how they deliver matches.

And this all would be fine if it was once in awhile but this was the only match in the first 97 minutes of Raw. That would be funny if it wasn't so sad.


That means we got to see 6-7 minutes of WRESTLING in the first 97 minutes of WWE Raw last night.


So I for one didn't enjoy Bryan-Wyatt but I do enjoy both of them and I think they can produce great stuff.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Huh? I don't recall ever having any such problems. Maybe before I had even watched an ROH match a few years ago did it feel like a step down with cheaper production and more amateurish presentation but when I eventually did, I realized that this is a complete non-issue. The camera work is still watchable and the crowds are big enough for me to overlook that it doesn't have the glitz and glamor of WWE.


----------



## It'sTrue (Apr 8, 2014)

Im sure ive seen it mentioned here before, but does anyone here use XWT. Looks like theres a lot of good stuff on there but not sure how safe it is?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah XWT is completely safe. Several of us in here use it and I've never had any problem with any torrents I downloaded.

-------------------------------

So what's the deal with Main Event tonight? Are they taping it and putting it on the network later or what?


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Some dungeon DVD ratings

Hart Foundation vs Islanders ** 3/4

Hart Foundation vs Twin Towers *** 1/2

Bret vs Flair IC Title Match ** 3/4

I sort of agree that Flair lacked psychology at Times and was pretty formulatic as all wrestlers can be. Had the mid 90s Hart wrestled the mid 80s flair I really think the clash would of been better.

BRET vs Tiger mask 2 I don't get care that it was slow I liked the Haitians reversals it was a methodical scientific clashe and Bret really molded in with the Japanese style well. Nothing on his earlier matches with tiger mask (original) but a damn fine gem. I'm okay with no commentary but that bugged some people.

*** 3/4


Bret vs Perfect 4/23/89 Maple Leaf Gardens ****

This is the best I've seen them do behind 

Kotr 93 *****
SUMMERSLAM 91 **** 1/2
Msg 89 match **** 1/4


BRET Taker *** 1/4

Is there a better undertaker singles match non gimmick Better then this in his first five years? I don't know the zombie held hI'm back plus setting I'm up with trash certainly didn't help his cause. I am a fan of the slow rumble 96 match the same way as I am Bret tiger mask two I referred to above for the same reasons outside the Japanese style. Summerlam 97 is terrfic and one night only is one of the greatest matches in wrestling history.


Bret vs Bam Bam *** 1/2
considering Bret lesnar is my all time dream match and I'm a huge mark for Bret vs the big guys especially the ones like taker, vader and bam bam who were all agile for their size.

Better then the Spain match on brets first dvd but I love the kotr 93 match the most just because of the whole story going in.


Bret Austin 9/14/96 Sun City ****

Every match thsee guys ever went against each other is four stars, outside the fca on raw which is close.



Fun DVD.


I also enjoyed the dynamite stuff from stampede and the wwf


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Is it weird that I just don't care for Bryan since he returned? He's been gone for so long that quite frankly it feels as if he's just a regular mid card guy. Plus, Seth Rollins has been so awesome in the time he has been gone that Bryan never really felt missed to me.

I know it sounds like a shitty thing to say given his injury but don't get me wrong I am glad that he's back. It's just that, there isn't anything for him to do. It's WWE fault quite frankly. If they weren't fucking around with him in the title picture for so long, none of this would have ever happened. It still feels as if he never really got his big moment. Putting the title on him at Mania again this year does nothing for me. I don't want to see a repeat of last year. 

Bryan's booking should just be that of a regular upper midcard/main event guy. Storyline wise, he should just climb his way back to the top but no bs this time. No Authority, No B plus player, none of that shit. Again, I don't want a freaking repeat o 2014!

But yeah, as it stands, Bryan is an afterthought. Why didn't he return as a surprise entrant in the Rumble? I'd never know. Having him announce his return was just stupid. He didn't have to do the cliched, return as number 30 and win. He should have come in as number 2, last a long time, and get eliminated by someone to set up a programme for Mania. Beats the hell out of random matches on RAW and SD if you ask me.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Is it weird that I just don't care for Bryan since he returned? He's been gone for so long that quite frankly it feels as if he's just a regular mid card guy. Plus, Seth Rollins has been so awesome in the time he has been gone that Bryan never really felt missed to me.
> 
> I know it sounds like a shitty thing to say given his injury but don't get me wrong I am glad that he's back. It's just that, there isn't anything for him to do. It's WWE fault quite frankly. If they weren't fucking around with him in the title picture for so long, none of this would have ever happened. It still feels as if he never really got his big moment. Putting the title on him at Mania again this year does nothing for me. I don't want to see a repeat of last year.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, but what!? I can't say I agree with ANYTHING you just said. He absolutely does not feel like a midcard guy and his presence was surely missed. No one else on this roster can perform and connect to the crowd like he does. Yeah Rollins has done well in his absence, but I think a lot of people are tired of seeing Rollins featured in 4 different segments on RAW week after week and surely tired of seeing nothing but John Cena as the top face. Announcing Bryan long before the Rumble was a much smarter move than having him be a surprise entrant. If he was a surprise entrant, he would HAVE to win or else the crowd would turn on whoever the winner is instantly. Now that they brought him back early, they can still do the number 1 or 2 thing and get eliminated late to setup a feud because the crowd has already seen him wrestle on a weekly basis and they've already seen him get some wins. 

Plus bringing Bryan back eliminated the idea of Reigns being the foregone conclusion as the winner. There's still the mystery of Randy Orton and when he will be back to shake things up. He can be the surprise entrant this year. So could Sheamus. The idea of Bryan having "random" matches is far from the truth. Kane was the guy who put him on the shelf for 8 months, so why wouldn't Kane be his first feud back? The match vs. Wyatt on RAW was fine and kept both guys strong (something the company rarely does).

Give it more than a week before you forget about Bryan. He's still the heartbeat of the company and the most over with the crowd.

EDIT: Oh and I forgot one thing. You can't expect someone to be out of action for 8-9 months and then make a surprise return so early in the Rumble and go full speed for 30+ minutes. That's just not smart and you have no idea what kinda shape they'd be in. Allowing Bryan to make his in ring return 2 weeks before the Rumble, he can then get back into the shape he was last year and get back in the groove of things. Look at other surprise entrants in the Rumble in past years. Cena in '08 and Edge in 2010. Both late entrants because they'd been out so long.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

The Royal Rumble PPV is once again a two-match show, and quite frankly I have no problem with this. Lesnar/Rollins/Cena has the potential to be an awesome bout, and the Rumble match is one of the most unpredictable in recent memory. It can turn out to be quite an amazing PPV, if booked right


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I'm sorry, but what!? I can't say I agree with ANYTHING you just said. He absolutely does not feel like a midcard guy and his presence was surely missed. No one else on this roster can perform and connect to the crowd like he does. Yeah Rollins has done well in his absence, but I think a lot of people are tired of seeing Rollins featured in 4 different segments on RAW week after week and surely tired of seeing nothing but John Cena as the top face. Announcing Bryan long before the Rumble was a much smarter move than having him be a surprise entrant. If he was a surprise entrant, he would HAVE to win or else the crowd would turn on whoever the winner is instantly. Now that they brought him back early, they can still do the number 1 or 2 thing and get eliminated late to setup a feud because the crowd has already seen him wrestle on a weekly basis and they've already seen him get some wins.
> 
> Plus bringing Bryan back eliminated the idea of Reigns being the foregone conclusion as the winner. There's still the mystery of Randy Orton and when he will be back to shake things up. He can be the surprise entrant this year. So could Sheamus. The idea of Bryan having "random" matches is far from the truth. Kane was the guy who put him on the shelf for 8 months, so why wouldn't Kane be his first feud back? The match vs. Wyatt on RAW was fine and kept both guys strong (something the company rarely does).
> 
> ...


Yeah, I agree with all your counter arguments. I guess it's just that I don't see him as the mega-star I once saw him as. I think it's honestly the whole YES chants. I think they ran its course. Funny, when they first started I never saw them dying. Maybe it's just too early to tell. Perhaps when he's put into a proper storyline I can get behind him again. Or just when he starts putting on kick ass matches again.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Nobody is a mega star anymore if Bryan isn't.


----------



## lemo (Jan 1, 2006)

machomark said:


> Some dungeon DVD ratings
> 
> Hart Foundation vs Islanders ** 3/4
> 
> ...



There are more fantastic matches in the blu ray:

Bret vs Yoko ***1/2
Bret & Bulldog vs Owen & Anvil ***1/2
Bret vs Hakushi Raw ****1/4
Bret vs Vader ***


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

*The Road...Is...JERICHO: Epic Stories & Rare Matches from Y2J* Match Listing



> DISC 1:
> 
> I Don’t Take Time Off
> 
> ...


Some good matches included. The two Punk matches are the main draw for me although his recent match Orton was fantastic!

- Vic


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Even as a Jericho fan, that set still looks random and quite shit if I'm honest.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

WWF 2000 is off to a great start so far. Just how does Kurt Angle get so much heat by simply cutting a funny promo? :lol

HHH and politics are going to be annoying, though. He did a good job making Rikishi look strong but even in a tag match when his DX buddies abandon him, he still beat Foley which I think was bullshit. Fucking Fox Sports broadcast is awful, though. Foley was bloody and those pussies going all the way with trying to censor it by keeping it on the hard camera and avoiding close-ups and they even censor "ass" during promos. fpalm

The second phase of the Attitude Era is about to be in full swing as soon as The Radicalz arrive. :mark: Austin, Vince and Ministry Taker are gone (only really miss Austin out of them) with Rock and HHH as the main characters with Jericho, Angle and Radicalz being the upper midcard supporting cast.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

> Even as a Jericho fan, that set still looks random and quite shit if I'm honest.


He picked these matches himself. He intentionally went for lesser known ones.

- Vic


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wow that Jericho set looks shite .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> WWF 2000 is off to a great start so far. Just how does Kurt Angle get so much heat by simply cutting a funny promo? :lol
> 
> HHH and politics are going to be annoying, though. He did a good job making Rikishi look strong but even in a tag match when his DX buddies abandon him, he still beat Foley which I think was bullshit. Fucking Fox Sports broadcast is awful, though. Foley was bloody and those pussies going all the way with trying to censor it by keeping it on the hard camera and avoiding close-ups and they even censor "ass" during promos. fpalm
> 
> The second phase of the Attitude Era is about to be in full swing as soon as The Radicalz arrive. :mark: Austin, Vince and Ministry Taker are gone (only really miss Austin out of them) with Rock and HHH as the main characters with Jericho, Angle and Radicalz being the upper midcard supporting cast.


December 1999 was crazy. What did you think of that Mick Foley promo where he alluded to the IWC rumors at the time about his retirement? And did you get to the "World Rock Federation" promo yet? I think this is also the time when the Dudley Boys become good and the tag division becomes stacked. And do you recall the huge pop that HHH got when he beat Big Show?

That Jericho set has lots of good matches, but the fact that there is no direction to it makes it worthless. Not that any match set has any worth with the WWE Network and XWT available to us, but man Y2J needed someone to filter that list for him.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Jericho-Kane from Armageddon Last Man Standing is fucking dreadful and boring as all hell.

The whole feud starting over Coffee even made the feel worse.

Jericho and Kane don't go well together.

It's like Triple H and Kane (at least for me) it just doesen't ever look good.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

"Epic Stories and Rare Matches" is the self-fellated, Tinder bio of DVD names. I'm not a Jericho fan in the slightest but that looks atrocious. 

Who comes up with those terrible chapter titles, anyway?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rah said:


> "*Epic Stories* and Rare Matches" is the self-fellated, Tinder bio of DVD names. I'm not a Jericho fan in the slightest but that looks atrocious.
> 
> Who comes up with those terrible chapter titles, anyway?


That bit was almost certainly thought up by Jericho. He has always been a favorite of mine to watch, but i do have to say the way he always seems to mark for himself nowadays does grate on me tbh.

But hey I'm a Bret fan, so.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only read the chapter titles after Rah made a mention. Glad I did.

_"Dark Matches & This is what Bullies do"_ :lmao


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> December 1999 was crazy. What did you think of that Mick Foley promo where he alluded to the IWC rumors at the time about his retirement? And did you get to the "World Rock Federation" promo yet? I think this is also the time when the Dudley Boys become good and the tag division becomes stacked. And do you recall the huge pop that HHH got when he beat Big Show?
> 
> That Jericho set has lots of good matches, but the fact that there is no direction to it makes it worthless. Not that any match set has any worth with the WWE Network and XWT available to us, but man Y2J needed someone to filter that list for him.


The Foley promo where he made a reference to retiring soon was excellent. Next up will be the second SD when he brings back Cactus Jack for the street fight so it should be great.

"World Rock Federation" was vintage Rock which means it rules the world. Dunno how the Kane parody passed me by from 99. I was watching a "funny Rock moments" video yesterday and came across the "My name is Kane and I'm a roody poo candy ass" bit (just remembered "I WON, I WON, LET'S PAAR-TAY!" part) and I haven't been able to get over it since. :lol Funny to hear Rock say he's not a qualified public speaker because I'm convinced he could make just about anything entertaining with simply a microphone in his hand. As long as he doesn't cut a simple top rope promo where he goes through a couple of catchphrases, I can listen to him all day.

Speaking of Jericho, I like his gimmick of mispronouncing names because that is _soooooo_ me.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

I suggest you guys watch *Smackdown!* tomorrow, us Canadian's get it a day early on Wednesday Night. I was pleasently surprised by the show, good stuff I wont spoil anything but I will say I thought the Main Event was MOTY as it was IMO Match of the month just in front of Neville-Zayn 1/14/15 and Wyatt-Ambrose Ambulance 1/5/15.

It's Kane vs Daniel Bryan *NO DQ* with Bryan's Rumble involvment on the line.

The NO DQ part really helped this, both guys went all out and I was pleasently surprised Kane still had something like this in him.


******






Brock said:


> That bit was almost certainly thought up by Jericho. He has always been a favorite of mine to watch, but i do have to say the way he always seems to mark for himself nowadays does grate on me tbh.
> 
> *But hey I'm a Bret fan, so*.




Yeah but Jericho is no Bret Hart. 

Don't get me wrong, I understand Jericho is a better all around performer with mic skills, charisma but still I would not place him higher on a greatest of all time list just because Bret Hart is motherfucking Bret Hart, top 5 ever in the whole world.

OH yeah, again I'll add in this post...I'm Canadian...and my first name is Brett...

You guys can tell eh?




Worth checkin out.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I wonder if that's Austin101 "its an Usos match" 4 stars or justified, it is great to have Danielson back, 4 stars.

I dunno. Snowflakes are enigmas.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Best Chris Jericho mispronounced names are Raisin and Shiima Ramalamadingdong :lol

Smackdown sounds solid and actually serving a purpose for twice. Glad to see that Bryan/Kane was solid. But at this point I don't think I'm capable of disliking any match he has. So long as the crowd loves him, that will make me watch attentively.

Everyone also go watch that Arn Anderson vs. Dustin Rhodes match from 1/4/92 that Zep uploaded. Going through WCW's 1992 and it's a MOTYC in a stacked year. Probably the best non-PPV match so far in the project.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Best singles match on the '92 calendar is an interesting project to try and work on. b/c I often go to numerous tags that year, but the singles bouts kind of roll through together, unless they're from Beach Blast. I should work on this and see what tops it all.

I'm willing to make a bet w/myself that it'll include Vader. I'll make five bucks.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

machomark said:


> I suggest you guys watch *Smackdown!* tomorrow, us Canadian's get it a day early on Wednesday Night. I was pleasently surprised by the show, good stuff I wont spoil anything but I will say I thought the Main Event was MOTY as it was IMO Match of the month just in front of Neville-Zayn 1/14/15 and Wyatt-Ambrose Ambulance 1/5/15.
> 
> It's Kane vs Daniel Bryan *NO DQ* with Bryan's Rumble involvment on the line.
> 
> ...


I meant who am i to complain about Jericho being a mark for himself, when im a massive Bret fan, who himself does gave a reputation for being a mark too.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

SmackDown was quality. I didn't think Bryan/Kane was anywhere near 4 stars but it was good for sure. Rusev/Ryback and Ziggler/Barrett were enjoyable too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wade vs Dolph is the kind of stuff I want to see less of, but def super excited for Rusev vs Ryback & Harper vs Rowan. The latter I fear won't get to be anything near what it should be, but i'll even accept a fraction at this point.

I dug the last week Danielson vs Kane match, so tomorrow I'm actually looking forward to seeing what SD has to offer. That's nice. I say that while being fine w/about 50% of SD for the past month, give or take.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Best singles match on the '92 calendar is an interesting project to try and work on. b/c I often go to numerous tags that year, but the singles bouts kind of roll through together, unless they're from Beach Blast. I should work on this and see what tops it all.
> 
> I'm willing to make a bet w/myself that it'll include Vader. I'll make five bucks.


I had to look at my WCW list right now to see how many tags and singles matches I had from 92 on there. Little surprised that it came out 16 singles and 10 tags.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Something like that only confirms how many singles matches I've lost track of on the year. b/c truth be told, when I think '92, a lot of go-to's are Steamboat/Douglas vs Windham/Pillman, Steiners vs MVC, babyfaces vs Dangerous Alliance on TV/PPV, Sting's Squadron vs Dangerous Alliance. Where as singles tends to be Vader vs Sting a few times & all the other singles matches from Beach Blast. Wait, I know I really dig Steamboat vs Pillman from Havoc too. It's just been a little bit too long for a lot of it and w/the Network at my disposal I really should make good use of watching all of the PPVs & COTC asap.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I had to look at my WCW list right now to see how many tags and singles matches I had from 92 on there. Little surprised that it came out 16 singles and 10 tags.


Could you post that list please mate?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Spoiler: uydghjsdfdgs



1. Ric Flair v Ricky Steamboat (Clash of the Champions 4/2/89)
2. Ricky Steamboat v Ric Flair (Landover House Show 3/18/89)
3. Ricky Steamboat v Ric Flair (WrestleWar 5/7/89)
4. Eddie Guerrero v Rey Mysterio Jr. (Halloween Havoc 10/26/97)
5. Rick Rude v Ricky Steamboat (Beach Blast 6/20/92)
6. Ric Flair v Terry Funk (Clash of the Champions 11/15/89)
7. Ricky Steamboat v Ric Flair (Chi-Town Rumble 2/20/89)
8. Big Van Vader v Sting (SuperBrawl 2/21/93)
9. Rick Rude/Arn Anderson/Bobby Eaton/Larry Zbyszko/Steve Austin v Sting/Ricky Steamboat/Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes/Nikita Koloff (WrestleWar 5/17/92)
10. Fit Finlay v Steven Regal (Uncensored 3/24/96)
11. Arn Anderson/Bobby Eaton/Larry Zbyszko v Ricky Steamboat/Dustin Rhodes/Nikita Koloff (Saturday Night 5/23/92)
12. Sting v Big Van Vader (Great American Bash 7/12/92)
13. Big Van Vader v Ric Flair (Starrcade 12/27/93)
14. Ric Flair v Lex Luger (Starrcade 12/26/88)
15. The Steiner Brothers v Steve Williams/Terry Gordy (Clash of the Champions 6/16/92)
16. Arn Anderson/Larry Zbyszko v Ricky Steamboat/Dustin Rhodes (Clash of the Champions 11/19/91)
17. Ric Flair/Barry Windham/Larry Zbyszko/Sid Vicious v Sting/Brian Pillman/The Steiner Brothers (Wrestlewar 2/24/91)
18. Ricky Steamboat/Shane Douglas v Barry Windham/Brian Pillman (Starrcade 12/28/92)
19. Ric Flair v Terry Funk (Great American Bash 7/23/89)
20. The Midnight Express v The Rock 'n' Roll Express (WrestleWar 2/25/90)
21. Big Van Vader v Dustin Rhodes (Clash of the Champions 11/16/94)
22. Big Van Vader v Sting (Starrcade 12/28/92)
23. Ric Flair v Lex Luger (WrestleWar 2/25/90)
24. Eddie Guerrero v Chris Jericho (Fall Brawl 9/14/97)
25. The Steiner Brothers v Steve Williams/Terry Gordy (Beach Blast 6/20/92)
26. Ricky Steamboat v Ric Flair (Philadelphia House Show 3/18/89)
27. Arn Anderson v Dustin Rhodes (Saturday Night 1/4/92)
28. Dustin Rhodes v Bunkhouse Buck (Spring Stampede 4/17/94)
29. The Midnight Express v The Southern Boys (Great American Bash 7/7/90)
30. Big Van Vader v Sting (Fall Brawl 9/18/94)
31. Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes v Steve Williams/Terry Gordy (Saturday Night 10/3/92)
32. Dustin Rhodes/Dusty Rhodes/The Nasty Boys Sags v Bunkhouse Buck/Terry Funk/Arn Anderson/Col. Robert Parker (Fall Brawl 9/18/94)
33. Brian Pillman v Jushin Liger (SuperBrawl 2/29/92)
34. Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes v Steve Austin/Larry Zbyszko (SuperBrawl 2/29/92)
35. Arn Anderson v Barry Windham (Saturday Night 6/6/92)
36. Arn Anderson v Big Josh (Saturday Night 5/2/92)
37. Sting v Cactus Jack (Beach Blast 6/20/92)
38. Steven Regal v Larry Zbyszko (Saturday Night 5/28/94)
39. The Hollywood Blondes v 2 Cold Scorpio/Marcus Bagwell (Worldwide 5/8/93)
40. Arn Anderson/Bobby Eaton/Larry Zbyszko/Rick Rude v Sting/Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes/Ricky Steamboat (Saturday Night 2/22/92)
41. Cactus Jack/Maxx Payne v The Nasty Boys (Spring Stampede 4/17/94)
42. Ricky Steamboat v Terry Funk (Clash of the Champions 6/14/89)
43. Chris Benoit v Fit Finlay (Slamboree 5/17/98)
44. Ric Flair/Sting v The Great Muta/Dick Slater (Clash of the Champions 9/12/89)
45. Cactus Jack/Kevin Sullivan v The Nasty Boys (Slamboree 5/22/94)
46. Ric Flair v Brian Pillman (World Championship Wrestling 2/17/90)
47. Big Van Vader v Ricky Steamboat (Saturday Night 10/16/93)
48. Rey Mysterio Jr. v Psychosis (Bash at the Beach 7/7/96)
49. Rick Rude v Dustin Rhodes (Worldwide 5/30/92)
50. Big Van Vader v Sting (Slamboree 5/22/94)
51. Randy Savage v Diamond Dallas Page (Great American Bash 6/15/97)
52. Ric Flair v Ricky Steamboat (Saturday Night 5/14/94)
53. Dean Malenko v Ultimo Dragon (Starrcade 12/29/96)
54. Bill Goldberg v Diamond Dallas Page (Halloween Havoc 10/25/98)
55. Chris Benoit v Diamond Dallas Page (SuperBrawl 2/22/98)
56. Chris Benoit v 2 Cold Scorpio (SuperBrawl 2/21/93)
57. Ric Flair/Barry Windham v Eddie Gilbert/Lex Luger (Main Event 3/25/89)
58. Ric Flair v Ricky Steamboat (Spring Stampede 4/17/94)
59. Ric Flair/Barry Windham v The Midnight Express (Clash of the Champions 12/7/88)
60. Hulk Hogan v Ric Flair (Halloween Havoc 10/23/94) 
61. Diamond Dallas Page v Sting (Nitro 4/26/99)
62. Dustin Rhodes v Bunkhouse Buck (Slamboree 5/22/94)
63. Big Van Vader/Steve Austin v Ric Flair/Arn Anderson (Saturday Night 11/13/93)
64. Ricky Steamboat v Steve Austin (Clash of Champions 8/28/94)
65. Arn Anderson/Rick Rude/Steve Austin v Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes/Ricky Steamboat (Pro 4/4/92)
66. Arn Anderson v Ricky Steamboat (Pro 3/28/92)
67. Ultimo Dragon v Steven Regal (Slamboree 5/18/97)
68. Sting v Steven Regal (Great American Bash 6/16/96)
69. Steven Regal v Psychosis (Nitro 12/16/96)
70. Big Van Vader v Cactus Jack (Halloween Havoc 10/24/93)
71. Steve Austin v Ricky Steamboat (Clash of the Champions 9/2/92)
72. Sting v Cactus Jack (Power Hour 11/23/91)
73. Ric Flair v Brian Pillman (World Championship Wrestling 4/13/91)
74. Steve Austin v Ricky Steamboat (Bash at the Beach 7/17/94)
75. Ric Flair/Barry Windham v Ricky Steamboat/Eddie Gilbert (World Championship Wrestling 1/21/89)
76. Jake Roberts v Dustin Rhodes (Saturday Night 9/26/92)
77. Rick Rude v Ricky Steamboat (SuperBrawl 2/29/92)
78. Ric Flair v Hulk Hogan (Bash at the Beach 7/17/94)
79. Brian Pillman v Johnny B. Badd (Fall Brawl 9/17/95)
80. Big Van Vader v Ricky Steamboat (Worldwide 4/25/93)
81. Chris Benoit v Eddie Guerrero (Nitro 10/16/95)
82. Ricky Steamboat v Steven Regal (Saturday Night 9/25/93)
83. Arn Anderson v The Great Muta (Power Hour 1/12/90)
84. Ricky Steamboat v Steven Regal (Fall Brawl 9/19/93)
85. Arn Anderson/Barry Windham v Doom (Starrcade 12/16/90)
86. Ric Flair v Arn Anderson (Fall Brawl 9/17/95)
87. Big Van Vader v Ron Simmons (Saturday Night 8/8/92)
88. Barry Windham v 2 Cold Scorpio (Clash of the Champions 6/16/93)
89. Eddie Guerrero v Dean Malenko (Inglewood House Show 6/28/97)
90. Big Van Vader v Dustin Rhodes (Saturday Night 11/21/92)
91. Brian Pillman v Scotty Flamingo (Beach Blast 6/20/92)
92. Steve Austin v Dustin Rhodes (Halloween Havoc 10/27/91)
93. Ricky Steamboat/Shane Douglas v Steve Austin/Brian Pillman (Clash of the Champions 1/13/93)
94. Steven Regal v Arn Anderson (SuperBrawl 2/20/94)
95. The Steiner Brothers v The Nasty Boys (Halloween Havoc 10/27/90)
96. Arn Anderson/ Bobby Eaton/Larry Zbyszko v Dustin Rhodes/Barry Windham/Ron Simmons (Clash of the Champions 1/21/92)
97. Big Van Vader v The Boss (Spring Stampede 4/17/94)
98. Big Van Vader v Davey Boy Smith (Clash of the Champions 8/18/93)
99. Chris Benoit v Kevin Sullivan (Great American Bash 6/16/96)
100. Sting v Chris Benoit (Nitro 9/20/99)



Keep in mind this is a three year old list that would be DRASTICALLY different if I did it again now. I would have most of those still on the list, but the order of everything outside the top.....12, I guess.....is so unlike what I'd do now. I hate myself for putting what I did at 95 and 97. Criteria was any WCW match from 11/24/88 (the shift from Crockett) to the end.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Last time you posted it I commented on being flabbergasted that Vader vs Boss was so close to not making the list. I demand to know what was going on w/you three years ago. Were less Jheri & a lot less Pineapple, I'm sure.

Pillman vs Badd Fall Brawl '95 made it. K, now I really have to question you. That match is garbage.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Dammit Hayley, that Fall Brawl match is one of my favourites from WCW.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

22/22/92 tag is where it's at in WCW 1992 :mark:. On TV, anyway. Only have Wargames and Iron Man ahead of it for the year.

Might download SD.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm more concerned about the love for Arn Anderson vs. Big Josh. 37 minutes of nothing.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Just for the sake of it, surprised you guys rather discuss SD than NXT. Which was pretty good this week. KENTA is finally starting to look confident there, his match w/Breeze was good in all honesty.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah Itami's match with Breeze was good, but I think it was 80% because of Breeze. Love that guy's heel work. I really hope they find him something to do because he's one of my favorite guys on the roster. 

Neville vs. Kidd next week should be (Y)


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I imagine they'll give Breeze something to do soon with Marcus Louis, seeing as they still haven't blown that off yet and it's unlike NXT to just forget something like that.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Here's the thing about Bryan and Kane I really wish doesent fly over people's heads...

The crowd and the commentary were both shit.

On a night where Lawler was doing actually a really good job Cole sounded exhausted by the main event barely had any energy.

And while both guys battered the hell out of each other with a Singapore Cain and had red welts all over especially on kane the this is awesomes were no where until the end very quietly.

But it's bullshit that some people think a match needs that chant for it to be great.

Bryans raw match with wyatt that was very average had not only that chant but a better crowd too and its up to the wrestling fan to see past that kind of thing.

A crowd can make a match better and these guys had hardly any help for all the great stuff they did, a lot of it was subtle.

I can justify my praise for the match once it is seen.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Yeah Itami's match with Breeze was good, but I think it was 80% because of Breeze. Love that guy's heel work. I really hope they find him something to do because he's one of my favorite guys on the roster.
> 
> Neville vs. Kidd next week should be (Y)


I really have to agree there. Hell, I made that clear in my review of the show on the NXT thread. Breeze fucking rules. Shame he's in limbo right now, without a clear spot on the next Takeover card (would be his 2nd miss). I would have him blow off the Louis feud, or even have a rematch w/Itami (he doesn't have a certain place on the card either).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SD had some fun stuff. Bryan doing the kicks to the chest followed up by a singapore cane spot was great. Thought Ryback did a somewhat decent job with his promo. Shame he isn't improving in the ring. Ziggler was... awful with his promo. Urgh.

Was gonna pay for the WWE NETWORK on Sunday to watch the RR live... but fuck, the card. Screw that. I ain't paying for 2 matches. Undercard is god awful. I mean really, really fucking awful. Old Age Outlaws Vs The Ascension? Paige & Natalya Vs The Bella Twins? The Usos Vs Miz & Sandow #95834746564756390202095837689762350256677609128928372676574689273456746 ? I guess they just decided "fuck it, we have the rumble match and Lesnar, we'll fill the rest of the show with pointless, random shite".


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

The rumble is always usually just about two matches.

Especially when those two matches are going to take up over half the show and should be terrific. I could see this rumble match being perhaps the best in years


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not really an excuse though lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just an easy excuse for WWE to hide behind.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

machomark said:


> Here's the thing about Bryan and Kane I really wish doesent fly over people's heads...
> 
> The crowd and the commentary were both shit.
> 
> ...


The crowd didn't have anything to do with my opinion of the match and the commentary was surprisingly bearable. It was a good match, just not a great one imo. Rollins/Show v Ambrose/Reigns is still match of the month for me with Bryan/Kane at #2 .



#ROOT said:


> SD had some fun stuff. Bryan doing the kicks to the chest followed up by a singapore cane spot was great. Thought Ryback did a somewhat decent job with his promo. Shame he isn't improving in the ring. Ziggler was... awful with his promo. Urgh.
> 
> Was gonna pay for the WWE NETWORK on Sunday to watch the RR live... but fuck, the card. Screw that. I ain't paying for 2 matches. Undercard is god awful. I mean really, really fucking awful. Old Age Outlaws Vs The Ascension? Paige & Natalya Vs The Bella Twins? The Usos Vs Miz & Sandow #95834746564756390202095837689762350256677609128928372676574689273456746 ? I guess they just decided "fuck it, we have the rumble match and Lesnar, we'll fill the rest of the show with pointless, random shite".


I liked Ziggler's promo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You would. Bloody HHH fans settling for shit 8*D.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Speaking of HHH, can't wait for him to start cutting promos on Sting. :mark: The match probably won't amount to much but the build should be entertaining. The video he did with Cole this week was good shit, except for the part where he tried to say the dinosaurs got wiped out by smaller, faster, smarter animals..


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Speaking of '92:

*Wild Pegasus vs 2 Cold Scorpio (New Japan 04.16.1992) (Handheld)*

x2fbmd5

Another quality match between the two.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Speaking of '92:

*Wild Pegasus vs 2 Cold Scorpio (New Japan 04.16.1992) (Handheld)*

x2fbmd5

Another quality match between the two.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

The build to HHH/Sting will mainly consist of Hunter burying WCW.

Can't wait for Rollins/Lesnar/Cena :mark: Rumble should be good too.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah I'm hyped for the triple threat. Rollins bumping for Lesnar :mark:


----------



## KingCannabis (Aug 28, 2007)

Sting/HHH will suck I think. I just don't see them being able to make their styles mesh & it's a very odd match-up, and not in a good way. Not to mention I think the "build" for why the match is happening will be forced like two puzzle pieces that just don't connect.

Sting/Taker on the other hand, makes more sense as to why they would be having a match & etc. Don't feel I really need to explain it.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The triple threat build to the Rumble is some of the best build WWE has done in years in my opinion, especially between Brock/Rollins (in fact, Id say it's THE best since Taker/HHH WM28). The segments have all been on point, all three guys are playing their roles extremely well (as well as Heyman as Brock's mouthpiece) and they actually have had me booked with each week being better than the last. I'm really hoping the match is as great as I know it can be.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Yeah it's been built superbly. REALLY hoping Heyman double crosses Brock and sides with Rollins. Would probably mean Brock turning face though. Would give us Rollins/Brock at Fast Lane(I think that's what it's called?) and would give Heyman something to do when Brock goes.

What we all hoping for at Mania this year? What I'm hoping for is VERY unrealistic haha.

Rollins(c) v Bryan(RR winner) V Brock(rematch) WWEWHC
Cena V Rusev
Ambrose/Reigns V Cesaro/Kidd Tag titles
Sting V HHH
Barrett/Sheamus IC title
Orton V Wyatt
Andre Battle Royal
Zayn V Owens NXT title


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What are the dates of the best Savage/Santana matches?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Ryan193 said:


> Yeah it's been built superbly. REALLY hoping Heyman double crosses Brock and sides with Rollins. Would probably mean Brock turning face though. Would give us Rollins/Brock at Fast Lane(I think that's what it's called?) and would give Heyman something to do when Brock goes.
> 
> What we all hoping for at Mania this year? What I'm hoping for is VERY unrealistic haha.
> 
> ...


Lesnar v Bryan for the title
Shield triple threat (maybe put Seth's MitB contract on the line?)
HHH v Sting
Cena v Rusev
Taker v Wyatt

Not sure where that leaves Orton.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Hey guys, I reviewed two super random Smackdown matches (McIntyre/Mysterio and Hardy/Finlay '06), so if you want, check that out *here!*

As far as Mania card predictions, I think it is impossible to tell until after Sunday, so many wildcards. I haven't been this excited for a PPV in a while, so it should be fun.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

#ROOT said:


> SD had some fun stuff. Bryan doing the kicks to the chest followed up by a singapore cane spot was great. Thought Ryback did a somewhat decent job with his promo. Shame he isn't improving in the ring. Ziggler was... awful with his promo. Urgh.
> 
> Was gonna pay for the WWE NETWORK on Sunday to watch the RR live... but fuck, the card. Screw that. I ain't paying for 2 matches. Undercard is god awful. I mean really, really fucking awful. Old Age Outlaws Vs The Ascension? Paige & Natalya Vs The Bella Twins? The Usos Vs Miz & Sandow #95834746564756390202095837689762350256677609128928372676574689273456746 ? I guess they just decided "fuck it, we have the rumble match and Lesnar, we'll fill the rest of the show with pointless, random shite".


Come on guy, it's $9.99! There's no reason for anyone not to pay that to support the company you've watched for years and years. Plus the build for those two matches have been superb, imo.



Ryan193 said:


> Yeah it's been built superbly. REALLY hoping Heyman double crosses Brock and sides with Rollins. Would probably mean Brock turning face though. Would give us Rollins/Brock at Fast Lane(I think that's what it's called?) and would give Heyman something to do when Brock goes.
> 
> What we all hoping for at Mania this year? What I'm hoping for is VERY unrealistic haha.
> 
> ...


Like Tanner said, it'll be almost impossible to predict any card until after the Rumble, but these are the only two matches I'd book fantasy wise that would make sense:

Lesnar vs. Bryan for the WWE Title
HHH vs. Sting for control of RAW & Smackdown

Some sort of U.S. Title & IC Title unification match (Ziggler vs. Rusev?)
Reigns vs. Rollins vs. Ambrose (idk how this match would come about but it's MONEY)
Usos vs. Kane & Big Show for the Tag Titles
Taker vs. Wyatt OR Taker vs. Cena in a retirement match

One other thing they could is Reigns vs. Rollins for control of RAW & Smackdown with Sting and HHH in their respective corners. That could work. Maybe even a tag match with the 4 of them?

I have no idea what else to do with Orton & Cena.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I paid them $9.99 too much last month (they actually charged me something around $12). They don't deserve a penny as far as I'm concerned. Plus it's clear as day Reigns is winning the Rumble so WWE getting a single dollar for this PPV is highway robbery. _(funnyfaces, you called it. Reigns is my least favorite wrestler now I'm neutral regarding Punk.)_

On to something better, only one SD left before the 2000 Rumble show. Haven't seen Cactus Jack vs Triple H since 2012 and I didn't like it very much then, so it'll be interesting to see how well it holds up. There's also the tables match that I've never seen before.


----------



## KingCannabis (Aug 28, 2007)

Choke2Death said:


> On to something better, only one SD left before the 2000 Rumble show. Haven't seen Cactus Jack vs Triple H since 2012 and I didn't like it very much then, so it'll be interesting to see how well it holds up.


I too don't much care for the HHH/Cactus RR '00 match. It's good in a way, but it's just sorta over the top and drags on from what I remember. I've always preferred their NWO '00 Hell In A Cell match over the RR '00 match. It's time for a re-watch of the two matches though, been awhile.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> Was gonna pay for the WWE NETWORK on Sunday to watch the RR live... but fuck, the card. Screw that. I ain't paying for 2 matches. Undercard is god awful. I mean really, really fucking awful. Old Age Outlaws Vs The Ascension? Paige & Natalya Vs The Bella Twins? The Usos Vs Miz & Sandow #95834746564756390202095837689762350256677609128928372676574689273456746 ? I guess they just decided "fuck it, we have the rumble match and Lesnar, we'll fill the rest of the show with pointless, random shite".


You get a 14 day trial. If you cancel the payment within 14 days they don't charge you.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Smackdown was quality (once again) tonight, outside of the opening segment taking way too long. I have to talk about one match in particular though.

*Ryback vs. Rusev* came outta nowhere and was completely awesome. I've been pretty vocal in my opinion of not caring for Ryback at all, but man, he actually looked GOOD here! Two big hosses throwin blows for 15 minutes with something to actually fight for... and it worked!? Rusev showing again why he's such a strong talent. Right on par with some of the matches with Swagger, imo. Totally adding this to my 2015 list and these two should have a U.S. Title match at Fast Lane next month. **** 1/2*

Ziggler vs. Barrett & Bryan/Kane were good, but the latter didn't come off as anything special to me. Run-of-the-mill No DQ match (albeit fun) with an abrupt finish. Doesn't come close to touching their Extreme Rules match last year.

Finish to Smackdown was pretty cool too. Honestly the closest they've came to showing Reigns may be a favorite outside of literally saying it on commentary. I'm still not convinced he's the winner, btw. Ziggler & Ambrose for dark horses!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What was the date of the supposed best Punk/Regal natch? Think yeah mentioned it, might have been from a house show.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

12/28/08 IIRC. Definitely near the year's end. December 28, 26, 22....something like that.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)




----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks guys.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Is it better than the No DQ match where Punk wins the belt? Cos I fucking love that match. Glad it made Punk's Bluray set :mark:.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I had it as my second best WWE match of 2008.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Was Chavo/Evan your #1 ? Gotta thank Yeah1993 for getting us all to watch it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> 12/28/08 IIRC. Definitely near the year's end. December 28, 26, 22....something like that.


Was about to ask "when in the hell" but oh yeah, house shows. One day I'll document an interest to remember those dates. But I don't for now, so I was just gonna plug the No DQ Match from early '09. and it rules too. At least for me. So yeah. 1993.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Royal Rumble 2000:*

Tazz vs Kurt Angle - ★★¼
The Hardy's vs The Dudleyz - ★★★★
Chris Jericho vs Chyna vs Hardcore Holly - ★★
New Age Outlaws vs Acolytes - ★
Triple H vs Cactus Jack - ★★★★½
Royal Rumble - ★★★

Solid event with a slightly bumpy middle section where I had to make sure I skipped the Miss Rumble segment. Street fight was better than last time but I still don't get the five star vibes from this many others seem to give it. Just not as action packed and vicious as some other Foley classics that I prefer to this. Funny coincidence is that I watched this event exactly 15 years after it took place. This was well-timed!


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

A lot of people are convinced it's Cena v Rusev at Mania. Am I missing something? I just don't see this happening. Sounds like it is beneath Cena. Granted we are two months from Mania and I can't think of one match I'd bet the farm that we will see. 

I would not call it a slam dunk that Reigns is winning the Rumble. I'd be surprised if it wasn't one of these 4....

Bryan
Reigns
Ambrose
Dolph

but it's far from a slam dunk like the last two years (Booootista and Cena)

Watching a bunch of old Rumble matches this week. Really enjoyed 1996. HBK took quite the bump when Vader threw him out of the ring. Eeeesh.


As for Taker v Sting I will be surprised if this isn't main eventing Mania 32. Maybe with HBK as the ref? Austin as the enforcer?


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> *Royal Rumble 2000:*
> 
> Tazz vs Kurt Angle - ★★¼
> The Hardy's vs The Dudleyz - ★★★★
> ...


I give Terri Runnels ★★★★★ for dat body. Goldust you lucky mf'er.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Goldust would claim he's a lot of things, lucky when it comes to once being associated w/Terri, isn't one of em. :ha

Best-worst segue into Dustin Rhodes, this series of threads will ever have.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

You really are a funny guy!

Gotta go watch some Goodfellas now


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

You can be one of those "lucky motherfuckers" yourself because from what I heard, Terri offers "fun hour" with fans in exchange for money. Dunno if it's skype or actual meeting. :lol

None of the Attitude Era divas are anything special until Trish and Lita came along. (not including Steph because she'll obviously blow them all away! )


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Goldust would claim he's a lot of things, lucky when it comes to once being associated w/Terri, isn't one of em. :ha
> 
> Best-worst segue into Dustin Rhodes, this series of threads will ever have.


Well I wouldn't go that far. They had a daughter together who they love very much. Not a total trainwreck......speaking of trainwrecks. The Kat and :lawler Quitting over a woman Jerry? Tsk tsk tsk.

Ok im done now lol. And keep those 00 review comin' C2D, I think you will really enjoy that year. I'm nearing the end and getting into 01 on my re watch.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

I'm actually starting to legit hate triple h. And I put up with the guy as a Canadian during the screwjob after his dickwad otr performance in early 98 or his politics and the reign of terror in 03 or anything in the last ten years.

Especially his boner for flair and everything else.

But I just got to say...



I marked out hearing him yell STIIIIING that was souended perfect.

It sounded like his Shaaawn face facts you can't wrestle anyyymooooore! H..B...K IS DEAD! Dead!!

I loved his match with Bryan he can still go but the problem is how is sting at 55 and hid styles gonna mesh?

Anyone think this is gonna be a street fight or gimmick match these guys won't do a one on one it would be pretty bad


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I was hoping to follow that up w/"I watched Goldust vs Razor Ramon from Royal Rumble '96" but I didn't and got distracted w/other rasslin instead. I'm gonna make the most of all those '96 RAWs that were recently put up on the Network though. Been waiting for more.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> *Speaking of HHH, can't wait for him to start cutting promos on Sting. :mark: The match probably won't amount to much but the build should be entertaining.* The video he did with Cole this week was good shit, except for the part where he tried to say the dinosaurs got wiped out by smaller, faster, smarter animals..


This is what I'm banking on.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So the girlfriend and I decided that we're gonna buy tickets and go to _Payback_ in May this year. It's in Baltimore so it's only two hours away. Pretty excited cause it's gonna be my first PPV! 

Baltimore hasn't had a PPV since TLC 2011 but for the last 5 years it's been host to some really good TV matches (Taker/Punk SD 2010, Punk/Orton before MITB 2013, Punk/Reigns RAW Old School) so I'm hoping to see some good shit.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Yeah I haven't seen a ppv mostly because of where I live the wwe has east coast bias as they should though..

Would of only been six hours to see wrestlemania 19 that would of been the easiest six hours of travelling and whatever the ticket costed I ever spent.... in hindsight of course.

Thing about seeing a PPv live is I always thought it's risky. Why well I always figures it's bound to be more expensive then a house show and it's just usually about six matches with at best two or three good ones. Usually no promos segments

Keep in mind that was my mentality back when wrestling had great promos segments and the odd bad Ppv.

These days? Ppvs have been great and one of the only things great about wwe today.

So have fun Jack Evans should be good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Royal Rumble '96 is a huge garbage show. Ugh. No wonder I could never remember anything. I don't even have the best track record w/liking Taker vs Bret matches, so this main event might have to wait for later. 

Thankfully Vader, Yokozuna, & Dory Funk Jr. all tried to give me some form of entertainment.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah you should probably just not watch Taker/Bret at all. It's long as fuck and has an awful finish. The match itself isn't that bad but it's the worst of their 3 major PPV matches. Like you said, I too am not the biggest fan of their series.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll probably stick w/it under the mentality that it is an Undertaker match I'm blurry w/, & I can't have that. If I don't like it, I won't mind. I've been wanting to plow through some classic Bret matches, so maybe this will be the right way to get a Bret fix going. By that I mean I can just pop on his first three disc set, b/c the majority of what made that is tremendous. _(believe the only match I dislike is the bore vs Benoit on Nitro)_ Vs Owen in White Plains & vs Smith from Season's Beatings :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Speaking of Bret, I'm watching King of the Ring '94 and Art Donovan is both annoying and hilarious on commentary. Every time someone comes out he yells "how much does that fella weigh!?" and there's always like a 10 second silence before Savage answers. :lol He'll even ask who someone is when they've said his name like 4 times. I imagine Savage & Monsoon are like 'this fuckin guy...'

Yeah I know that had nothing to do with Bret, but he does have a really good match with Diesel on here.  Overbooked to hell, but still really good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Felt like that was the norm for Bret vs Diesel until it was No DQ.

and Art Donovan :lmao

Art: "who's that guy?"

Savage: "THAT'S SHAWN MICHAELS" (in a tone where he was like; this fucking guy should know him)

Art: "Oh. Is he a wrestler too?"


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

:lmao :lmao

This is fucking great. Razor Ramon seems to be the only guy whose name he can remember, and that's only because he picked him to win the tournament. Everyone should read this because it's one of the funniest things ever:

http://art0donnell.blogspot.com/2012/12/king-of-ring-1994-enter-donovan.html

"How much does that fella weigh?"


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE (Sep 12, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Felt like that was the norm for Bret vs Diesel until it was No DQ.
> 
> and Art Donovan :lmao
> 
> ...


Art Donovan is one of the great unexpected pleasures of any ppv. "Who's that guy? How much does he weigh?" Timeless classic.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

machomark said:


> I'm actually starting to legit hate triple h. And I put up with the guy as a Canadian during the screwjob after his dickwad otr performance in early 98 or his politics and the reign of terror in 03 or anything in the last ten years.
> 
> Especially his boner for flair and everything else.
> 
> ...


Yeah I expect it to be a gimmick match. 

What kind of shape is Sting in? When was his last match and how did he look?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Art Donovan is one of those memories helped immortalized via Botchamania.

iirc Sting's last match was vs Ethan Carter III from January of 2014. Sting looked, yeah......not positive. But he's super old, it was his last match, and he clearly had no reason to try. While I'm confident his match this year at WM won't be any good, it shouldn't be THIS bad in terms of actually wanting to put some effort in. _(I hope..)_ It will probably be his final match for good, so he might want it to look somewhat tolerable. I'm more feared about the hypothetical of it being a gimmick AND vs Triple H. Past kayfabe, the realism of what to expect isn't pretty.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I really don't see it being good but with some luck maybe we could get a fun spectacle.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Embrace the element of Sting working his first WWE match. Don't try and make it something it isn't. I fear they'll want 45 minutes of PPV time total just b/c of the enormity of it. Just go out there, work something potentially simple to give the fans Sting, and let it end there. Don't push it. But, again, that's the biggest worry. 

Worry is a tad of a stretch. b/c honestly, I really don't care for this at all. I just rather not see a super ultra terrible match take up a lot of time at WM. Which is a given for any fan.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Willing to take a match request if i have it, and it isn't already online.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Quite frankly, as long as we get Lesnar/Bryan and/or Rollins/Reigns/Ambrose at Mania, I really couldn't give a rat's ass if Sting/HHH takes up 24 hours worth of action. Those two can single handedly "sell" (I ain't actually buying it... or even watching on the Network ) WM for me.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Bryan/Lesnar would make my year.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'd be disappointed in anything other than Brock/Bryan tbh, but i just don't think we are getting that match, which would be one of the great misses in history really imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

We're not. It's p. obvious what we're gonna get. As far as Reigns vs Brock goes.

Stunned the majority hasn't put Rollins vs Orton together. That was a lock the moment Rollins beat him and sent him packing w/"injury". No clue what Ambrose will have.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ambrose will be in the 2nd Andre The Giant Memorial Battle Royal. Assuming they keep up the tradition :side:.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

My guess too. _(if indeed the gimmick does survive a second year.)_


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yup. It's been obvious they are sticking with Brock/Reigns at WM. 

The only chance we get Brock/Bryan is if Lesnar stays beyond WM, which he is 99.99% certain of not doing unfortunately.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If Brock stays, we might get BROCK VS BRYAN. If Brock leaves... we might get BROCK VS PUNK MMA. Imagine Heyman outside the cage trying to manage them both or something, totally pro wrestling style? :lmao would be the single greatest thing ever :mark:.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Like I've said since Danielson returned, I'm not against Reigns vs Brock in the slightest. It's just when Danielson is back & you don't use him, that's the only bad element I see coming out of this. But look at last year. Danielson had to luck out. The chance to have that moment isn't there. I guess it isn't all bad. Doesn't mean his chance to be champion again is out the window. He just won't get that honor at WM one more time or as soon as we'd all prefer.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Was Chavo/Evan your #1 ? Gotta thank Yeah1993 for getting us all to watch it.


As much as I hate Chavo, yes it was.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The funny thing is, as much as i want Brock/Bryan, and i do fucking badly, I'd be intrigued by a Brock/Reigns match, just to see what they do tbh, it's just as Hayley says, Bryan is there so anything else will be a major disappointment. 

IMO, they just can't mesh well, although if they go all out and make it a war, kinda like what Brock/Goldberg shoukd have been, then maybe it wouldn't be as bad as alot of people seem to think it would turn out to be.

Although I have very little faith in that statement tbh.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Lesnar/Reigns will be 100% dependent on how much all-out chaos they could possibly insert into it. If both men - more so Lesnar obviously - do give their very best, I could see this being good. Unfortunely, the mere prospect of Reigns winning the fucking title gives me the creeps. And even still, I have a far bigger feeling this'll be much more like Lesnar/Goldberg rather than Batista/Taker.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lesnar has the greater chance of fucking the match up & I hope people are wise enough to realize this. Why wouldn't he phone it in when he's done it before? Reigns has nothing to prove; only to show up and work. If he does that, the moment is his for the taking.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rah said:


> As much as I hate Chavo, yes it was.


Chavo mark. :mark:



Did you see Hardy/Finlay 8/19/08, Finlay/Henry 9/16/08 + 11/4/08?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Lesnar has the greater chance of fucking the match up & I hope people are wise enough to realize this. Why wouldn't he phone it in when he's done it before? Reigns has nothing to prove; only to show up and work. If he does that, the moment is his for the taking.


That's exactly why I said "more so Lesnar" when I mentioned how both guys should really go out and give their 100% best to making this actually work. I know Lesnar's lack of care has ruined matches before (i.e. the obvious Goldberg one, though Bill didn't care either so you have that), and Reigns, wheater or not he does his schtick fine or not, is not necessarily... WM Main Event material, so I'm worried for that. I mean, he's fine at what he does (punch, punch, Apron dropkick, Superman Punch, Spear... occasional Samoan Drop here and there), and I don't ask for MOVEZ~ or anything, but what he does alone isn't exactly interesting for my liking. This match would depend way more on Lesnar than Reigns. And given his track record of care on matches that preceeded his departure from the company... Jesus Christ.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The day after WM, regardless of who Reigns faced and how the match turned out, I might just create a thread claiming it was ***** and write up some big fake review of it to see how people react .






































































*note: I likely won't do this because I'm a lazy fucker*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Reigns is fine and no different than arguably some others who have been given the chance to end WM. Not like WM hasn't ended w/terrible or utterly mediocre matches before. And I fear what kind of twist of fate it will take for this potential main event match to near some of those infamous stinkers.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

All it needs is Lesnar not giving a shit, just going out there and doing it without a care in the world, like what happened w/Bill 11 years ago.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

One person tanking but another trying > two people tanking.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

That is certainly true, but I don't think Reigns is exactly a miracle worker, so... yeah. Afaic, he wouldn't be able to make the match much better than that.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Brock/Bryan or bust.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm still not convinced on this whole Reigns vs. Lesnar thing. This company HAS to know Bryan vs. Lesnar is a bigger money match and would flat out be a MUCH better match. Don't forget about Orton, either. Idk what's gonna happen, honestly and I love it.
​*WWF King of the Ring 1994*

*First Round Matches*
Razor Ramon vs. Bam Bam Bigelow - ** 1/4
I.R.S. vs. Mabel - *
Owen Hart vs. Tatanka - ***
Jeff Jarrett vs. The 1-2-3 Kid - * 1/2

*WWF Championship*
Bret Hart (c) vs. Diesel - *** 3/4

*Semi-Finals*
Razor Ramon vs. I.R.S. - * 1/4
Owen Hart vs. The 1-2-3 Kid - ** 1/2

*WWF World Tag Team Championship*
The Headshrinkers (c) vs. Yokozuna & Crush - ** 1/2

*Finals*
Owen Hart vs. Razor Ramon - ** 1/4

Roddy Piper vs. Jerry Lawler - 1/2*​
- This show is all about Art Donovan, so let's get that outta the way now. "How much does that fella weigh?" :lol Anyway, only notable match in the first round was Owen/Tatanka. Good formulaic match with Owen sneaking out the victory and keeping Tatanka strong. The finish to IRS/Mabel was legit awful and almost the same finish they ran in Razor/Bam Bam (except much worse). Liked the post-match beatdown that Double J gave to the Kid.

- As I said before, Hart/Diesel is overbooked to hell but still really good. It pretty much had 3 or 4 mini stories throughout that kept your attention at all times. Had some really close nearfalls near the end and plenty of good action for 20 minutes. Quality match. Anvil was completely worthless at ringside though.

- Semi-Finals had Owen/Kid, which was like a 4 minute sprint that was fun to watch. Mike Rotundo has got to be the most boring wrestler ever. The guy literally never does anything exciting and his go-to move is a lying chinlock with his feet on the ropes. NEXT

- Tag Title match had potential and was fun & chaotic for the majority, but then Luger had to come down and ruin it. Dumb ending, but Yoko takes a lot of bumps so it's good enough for a watch. "Who's da fella with the American flag?" :lmao Oh Art...

- KOTR Finals was going along as a solid match, then Neidhart interfered and gave us another shitty finish. Owen looked good all night though.

- Was Lawler vs. Piper _actually _a draw in 1994? I could understand it 10 years prior, but why the hell was this the main event? Match was pretty basic and had a completely terrible finish. One of the slowest 3 counts I've ever seen. Half star added because Lawler hit a piledriver.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Owen/Kid ks one of the best sub-5 minute matches ever, badass shit to say the least.

...you know, once, Wolverine/Chris challenged me to compile a card of sub 10 minute matches. I should raise the stakes to 5 now 8*D

Anyways, before that, has anyone seen Richards/Steen BITW recently? To know if it's worth my time?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I think people are still selling Reigns short, and forgetting that he really wasn't dashed pepper on top of haute cuisine in any of The Shield tags. He was an integral part of its quality. He has intensity to his offence and is a terrific emoter. If he's facing Brock, he needs to take a beating and survive long enough for an opening to hit his arsenal. That should be a cakewalk. Match will be fine.

Obviously I'd take Brock/Bryan over it, any day. I'd also rather do 'Taker/Sting. I don't want to see 'Taker, Sting nor HHH wrestle but 'Taker/Sting (for whatever loopy reason) is the money match here. Be daft not to do it, even off of 'Taker losing the streak and needing a win to give meaning to his career (or whatever brain-aching method they put to this madness). What's the outcome for HHH/Sting, anyway? At least with 'Taker/Sting I don't care who loses. It's a match between a 50 year old real-estate investor and a "retired mime with a bald spot". They've written 'Taker as fallible and mortal (not simply from last year's Wrestlemania). What's the point of doing Sting/HHH if Sting loses? Moreover, what's the point of doing Sting/HHH if HHH loses? Triple H is still a semi-active competitor and a man still enjoying his athletic prime. Sting's effectively not been in a ring since 2001 (by canon and over a year since TNA). If he wins what does that say about the wrestlers HHH has beat, will beat and gives stiff competition to? I know that WWE love masking how mediocre the present product is by continually hyping novelty acts on Raw, and using current talent at their expense, but this is a little ludicrous even for that.



Yeah1993 said:


> Chavo mark. :mark:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you see Hardy/Finlay 8/19/08, Finlay/Henry 9/16/08 + 11/4/08?


I've seen both of the Henry/Finlay matches. Thought 16/09 was quite a bit better than the other, and my fourth favourite from what I'd seen of the year, but I loved both. Pretty sure you told me to watch Hardy/Finlay before and I did but it's not on my list. Computer must have fucked out, as my 2006 and 2004 lists are completely empty. Notepad = bollocks. Gist of it, pretty much anything from Finlay 2006-2008 I loved to death.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Bret and Nash sure had good chemistry. I'm a staunch Nash disliker but Bret got a lot out of him. Three damn good matches. Think I will rewatch the 1995 Rumble match later.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rah said:


> I think people are still selling Reigns short, and forgetting that he really wasn't dashed pepper on top of haute cuisine in any of The Shield tags. He was an integral part of its quality. He has intensity to his offence and is a terrific emoter. If he's facing Brock, he needs to take a beating and survive long enough for an opening to hit his arsenal. That should be a cakewalk. Match will be fine.
> 
> Obviously I'd take Brock/Bryan over it, any day. I'd also rather do 'Taker/Sting. I don't want to see 'Taker, Sting nor HHH wrestle but 'Taker/Sting (for whatever loopy reason) is the money match here. Be daft not to do it, even off of 'Taker losing the streak and needing a win to give meaning to his career (or whatever brain-aching method they put to this madness). What's the outcome for HHH/Sting, anyway? At least with 'Taker/Sting I don't care who loses. It's a match between a 50 year old real-estate investor and a "retired mime with a bald spot". They've written 'Taker as fallible and mortal (not simply from last year's Wrestlemania). What's the point of doing Sting/HHH if Sting loses? Moreover, what's the point of doing Sting/HHH if HHH loses? Triple H is still a semi-active competitor and a man still enjoying his athletic prime. Sting's effectively not been in a ring since 2001 (by canon and over a year since TNA). If he wins what does that say about the wrestlers HHH has beat, will beat and gives stiff competition to? I know that WWE love masking how mediocre the present product is by continually hyping novelty acts on Raw, and using current talent at their expense, but this is a little ludicrous even for that.


Completely agree on the first paragraph. Reigns is getting way too much hate and people claim he's being pushed to the moon, when in reality he hasn't really won anything and that other guy who claims to have orchestrated the Shield actually wins EVERYTHING and gets featured on RAW 3 different times a week and people love him. Reigns obviously isn't Bryan but he's a completely capable worker who can have quality matches with the right opponent (Punk, Orton, etc.)

Triple H hasn't won a match since his Career threatening one at Wrestlemania 29.  Since then he's put over Lesnar, Bryan, Reigns, and basically all of the Shield. I think his in-ring career is pretty much over outside of one or two matches a year so there'd be nothing wrong with him losing to Sting at Mania. The match would make way more sense than Taker/Sting, tbh. I don't even know why that match came about in people's minds. Is that a dream match or something? haha. Sting/HHH can be for some kind of creative control and they've been building it since Survivor Series. I think it's a lock at this point.

If Taker does in fact come back, he should "make an announcement on his career" one night on RAW, then the lights go out and Wyatt lays him out. This way the streak doesn't even have to come into play. He just wants to get revenge on Wyatt. Wouldn't matter who won, but I guess Taker should.



MachoMadness1988 said:


> Bret and Nash sure had good chemistry. I'm a staunch Nash disliker but Bret got a lot out of him. Three damn good matches. Think I will rewatch the 1995 Rumble match later.


Oh yeah, I love the Diesel matches, moreso than Bret's series with Taker. Seen their Rumble match like 3 or 4 times and it's so damn good. That leg work...


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Completely agree on the first paragraph. Reigns is getting way too much hate and people claim he's being pushed to the moon, when in reality he hasn't really won anything and that other guy who claims to have orchestrated the Shield actually wins EVERYTHING and gets featured on RAW 3 different times a week and people love him. Reigns obviously isn't Bryan but he's a completely capable worker who can have quality matches with the right opponent (Punk, Orton, etc.)
> 
> Triple H hasn't won a match since his Career threatening one at Wrestlemania 29.  Since then he's put over Lesnar, Bryan, Reigns, and basically all of the Shield. I think his in-ring career is pretty much over outside of one or two matches a year so there'd be nothing wrong with him losing to Sting at Mania. The match would make way more sense than Taker/Sting, tbh. I don't even know why that match came about in people's minds. Is that a dream match or something? haha. Sting/HHH can be for some kind of creative control and they've been building it since Survivor Series. I think it's a lock at this point.
> 
> ...


I remember watching the Bret/Nash Rumble match a year or two ago and loving it. 

I might be in the minority but I like the Bret/Taker matches a lot. Especially the Summerslam 1997 match. I probably like the Bret/Nash trilogy more. 

If I know I forgot but does anyone remember why Taker had the phantom of the opera mask thing in 96? I found that to be lame as hell. #DucksFromAllTheTakerMarks


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

the Diesel-Bret Rumble match was good until all the interferences happened IMO. The overbooking pretty much ruined the match for me.


Resumed my RAW/Nitro project few weeks ago (though Nitro hasnt started yet). I'm in May 1995 currently and next up is the first In Your House event.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

At the time of the Rumble match with Bret and Nash I kinda thought Bret was gonna win the title back. That would have set up Bret v HBK at WM 11 instead of Diesel and HBK which was ok but kind of lackluster for a WM title match. Bret v HBK would have at least been able to close that mania instead of LT v Bam Bam.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

So I got in a pretty big pro graps mood yesterday and decided to binge watch. Here is what I knocked out, with my own ratings:

Vader vs The Boss Spring Stampede 1994 ****1/4
Vader vs Miawa 10/30/99 ****1/2
Vader vs Inoki 1/6/96 ****1/4
Vader vs Kawada 2000****
Vader vs Bret Hart vs Steve Austin vs Undertaker IYH: Final Four ****1/2
Vader vs Owen Hart ONO 1997 ****1/4
Vader vs Kobashi 1/5/99 ****1/4
Vader vs Stan Hansen AJPW/NJPW 1990 ****1/4
Vader vs Dustin Rhodes COTC 1994 ****1/2
Vader vs Hashimoto 1989 ****1/4
Vader vs Tamura UWFi 1994 ****1/2

So, yea, I got in a pretty huge mood for VADER. If you ever feel you're interest for pro graps wanting, I strongly reccomend popping in som Vader. If that man can't make you love wrestling again, NO ONE can.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I expect Brock vs Reigns to be as bad as Brock vs Goldberg, Cena vs Miz and Rock vs Cena II. Even if they try, the crowd will bury that piece of shit as they should. Plus Brock is a great wrestler but he's never been one to carry matches entirely on his own and have it turn out great. He had to call the Taker match last year after the concussion and it turned out to be rather boring. So I'd expect much less with someone as useless as Reigns who wont do shit other than clotheslines, spears and that apron dropkick.

If that's the main event they go for, it'll be an injustice and I will watch as if it's a car wreck that you look at in amusement.


----------



## TheChoppingMachine (Mar 25, 2014)

Vader is the man. (Y)



ATF said:


> Anyways, before that, has anyone seen Richards/Steen BITW recently? To know if it's worth my time?


It's the Fight Without Honor rematch ? I Haven't seen it since, but I remember a great match, totally worth watching. Better than their first match wich was already better then the usual Richards shitfest.
+ Cole vs O'Reilly from the same show. :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Vader vs Owen Hart ONO 1997 ****1/4


:mark: Finally someone who acknowledges the AWESOME this was. I have it at a slightly inferior score (***3/4-****), but you get the point. VADER.

Given how nobody paid much attention to it at all, I'll reiterate the question I made on the last page: is Richards/Steen BITW worth my time? Because I think I never saw it before. I've been on a binge of both Steen and Zayn - started by rewatching that BRUTAL Steen Wolf Ladder match - and then remembered this existed and was praised like fuck back in 2012 when it happened... but then again, so was Richards/Edwards BITW. And that kinda sucked for my taste. So... yeah, anyone?

EDIT: Yup, it is the rematch if I'm not wrong. I'm pretty skeptical cause Richards, honestly. Which is why I asked in the first place. Thanks, man. Anyone else though (so I could see some general opinion and stuff)?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Watched Beach Blast 92 last night. Scotty Flamingo vs. Brian Pillman was the second best match that night behind the ironman match. Main event made me realize why a lot of folks at PWO aren't too big on the Steiners.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> :mark: Finally someone who acknowledges the AWESOME this was. I have it at a slightly inferior score (***3/4-****), but you get the point. VADER.
> 
> Given how nobody paid much attention to it at all, I'll reiterate the question I made on the last page: is Richards/Steen BITW worth my time? Because I think I never saw it before. I've been on a binge of both Steen and Zayn - started by rewatching that BRUTAL Steen Wolf Ladder match - and then remembered this existed and was praised like fuck back in 2012 when it happened... but then again, so was Richards/Edwards BITW. And that kinda sucked for my taste. So... yeah, anyone?
> 
> EDIT: Yup, it is the rematch if I'm not wrong. I'm pretty skeptical cause Richards, honestly. Which is why I asked in the first place. Thanks, man. Anyone else though (so I could see some general opinion and stuff)?



The only Richards/Steen match I've seen is the one where Steen wins the ROH title for the first time, and I thought it was a rather excellent match, certainly worth the time. I don't know if that was their first match or not, I remember Steen power bombing Richards right onto the apron so maybe it was a fight without honor, but if can't be sure. Either way. It's Kevin Steen. Dude is an amazing wrestler, even Richards would have a hard time making a Steen match totally not even worth watching 

Got 1 more to add to my Vader list, and boy is it a doozy:

Vader vs Kobashi 2/27/00 ****1/2

Fuck, man. Vader is such an incredible wrestler. Most people just think of him as "one of the best big men" or "one of the best super heavyweights" but I say fuck that. Vader is one of the best wrestlers who ever set foot on Earth, period. He could weigh 150 pounds or 550 pounds and be just as amazing. I could watch Vader wrestle all day for a week straight and never get bored of the dude. He's that good. It's an absolute outrage that he's not in the HoF, same with Stan Hansen.

I smell a new theme change coming. I think the Rabid Wolverine gimmick is getting a bit stale, it just might be VADER TIME now :mark:



funnyfaces1 said:


> Watched Beach Blast 92 last night. Scotty Flamingo vs. Brian Pillman was the second best match that night behind the ironman match. Main event made me realize why a lot of folks at PWO aren't too big on the Steiners.


Aaaaaaaand we got beef, chief. Look, I'm a big supporter of Flamingo/Pillman, gave it ***3/4 when I wrote that big review on BB92' the day the network came out. But, come one. Better than Sting/Cactus Jack FCA? Better than Steiner's/MVC? No way sir, not gonna happen. The Steiner's/MVC tag is nowhere near the caliber of their COTC match but it's still GREAT. And Cactus/Sting is one of the best (maybe top 15-20?) matches in WCW history. It's Stings best non-Vader match. It's Cactus's best WCW match. It's the bees knees, dig what I'm saying?

Plus, Pillman/Flamingo has a LOT of slop in it, you know that. Some of the work makes you cringe.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> If I know I forgot but does anyone remember why Taker had the phantom of the opera mask thing in 96? I found that to be lame as hell. #DucksFromAllTheTakerMarks


Mabel injured him, so they wrote it into a storyline where Mabel and Yoko both repeatedly leg dropped him, crushing his face .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, powerbomb on the apron + Steen's title win was the the Border Wars match, which was the match that preceeded BITW. That one was actually not too high on the Davey Richards "I'm a great WRASSLER, fuck selling" jackshit, for all my luck (it did have its annoying instances though... God I hate that Ankle Lock reversal spot where the guy being held in the hold rolls over and turns it into one of his own without selling his ankle at all, loathed it in the Angle/Benoit matches and loathed it here too). And it did have a typically badass Steen performance. Honestly, thought it was pretty damn good, would give ***1/2 to possibly ***3/4. Even still, skepticism is always here. I'll give BITW a go now. Wish me luck 8*D.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I really liked Sting/Jack and it was marginally lower than Pillman/Flamingo which I loved. I do prefer quite a few Cactus WCW matches over it though. Especially VADER matches. And his string of 1994 tag matches. Same with Sting. Lots of matches I liked from him more than the FCA match with guys like DDP, Regal, VADER, Muta, and various tag matches.

Steiners/MVC is the one we have beef on. I didn't like it. I understand why they wrestled on the ground for so long, but it was so boring and didn't lead to anything. Completely different from their COTC match where the wrestling led to frustration between both teams which then led to everyone slamming each other. Their Beach Blast match stayed in the first gear the entire time. Both Rick and Scott forgot to sell the leg work that Gordy utilized on them. Steve Williams didn't do anything. Too long and too dull.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

I'm not getting the hate towards Reigns/Lesnar. If they go for an all out slug-fest with Lesnar dominating in the middle and a Reigns comeback it could be good and definitely watchable. I don't get the Reigns hate in general. I agree with what Rah posted about him, the guy is a capable worker and he's charismatic in the ring and shows real fire in his comebacks etc. If Lesnar performs and Reigns shows his usual fire, I don't see what's going to be so horrible about it. I think back to the first Shield/Wyatt match at Elimination Chamber and one of the best parts of that match was Reigns slugging it out with the big guys. And seriously, people think Reigns will get booed? I can't see that at all but I could well be totally wrong. Yeah I'd prefer Bryan/Brock by a large margin because that could be genuinely special, but if I get Reigns/Lesnar I really don't mind.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Just to point out, Steve Corino makes me laugh more on commentary in 5 minutes than the entire Raw team in 3 months, let alone just 3 hours. "DOES HE KISS HIS BOYFRIEND WITH THAT MOUTH?!!" :lmao

Oh, and Kyle O'Reilly cut a totally fine promo before the match dumping Davey btw. I was supposed to get into the match, but this pre-match stuff was really entertaining... plus, this reminded me of the quite great Cole/O'Reilly match from the same night. Which I decided to quickly rewatch in parts :side:. Jesus, Cole looked like someone straight out of a Texas Chainsaw Massacre movie in a shot of that match.

OKAY, I'LL GO BACK TO THE STEEN/RICHARDS MATCH. GODDAMMIT.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Bubz said:


> I'm not getting the hate towards Reigns/Lesnar. If they go for an all out slug-fest with Lesnar dominating in the middle and a Reigns comeback it could be good and definitely watchable. I don't get the Reigns hate in general. I agree with what Rah posted about him, the guy is a capable worker and he's charismatic in the ring and shows real fire in his comebacks etc. If Lesnar performs and Reigns shows his usual fire, I don't see what's going to be so horrible about it. I think back to the first Shield/Wyatt match at Elimination Chamber and one of the best parts of that match was Reigns slugging it out with the big guys. And seriously, people think Reigns will get booed? I can't see that at all but I could well be totally wrong. Yeah I'd prefer Bryan/Brock by a large margin because that could be genuinely special, but if I get Reigns/Lesnar I really don't mind.


Elimination Chamber match against The Wyatts was Reigns' best performance ever. But I just don't know as a singles worker, right now I just don't know if he can have a great match. He had a good one with Rusev on SD a few weeks ago which I'd also put as his best singles match yet, so there is a little bit of hope. I think if Lesnar is motivated and giving 110%, Lesnar/Reigns has a chance at being good, but I don't think it'll be a Wrestlemania main event quality performance, and if Lesnar phones it in it's going to be complete shit.

As far as Reigns getting booed, I don't know if people mean against Lesnar or in the long-term if he does beat Lesnar? My thought process though is based on coming off the Shield split, his reactions were getting weaker and weaker until he had the hernia. Then he comes back to a good reaction and since his reactions have gotten weaker and weaker until this week's Raw which was his best pop since returning. I don't think it's going to be one night they cheer him and the next night the crowds are totally booing him, but I do see his reactions gradually getting worse and he's nowhere near as over as Cena was in 2004-early 2005, so I don't think it'll be a split crowd like it is with Cena. I think at some point it's going to be all boos and they'll have to turn him heel.

Of course, we won't know until it happens. I think if WWE really wants to keep Reigns definitely getting cheered through Mania and for a time beyond, the way to do it is have him eliminate Rusev last at the Rumble. Even if the crowd is pissed off that Bryan gets eliminated, they definitely won't cheer Rusev over Reigns due to Rusev's anti-USA gimmick. Reigns wins, Cena wins the title, and we get Reigns vs. Cena for Mania. People are so sick of Cena that Reigns will definitely be the favorite. Have him beat Cena, and then Rollins beats Reigns for the title by cashing in. I know that WWE never closes out with a heel standing tall at Mania, but this is the time to do it. Then Reigns chases Rollins and Rollins is such a big heat magnet right now that I don't think they'd boo Reigns. That should at least keep Reigns as a solid favorite through Summerslam.

Oh, and don't at all put Reigns against guys like Bryan or Ziggler either. That's a sure way to have the crowd turn against him.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Bubz said:


> I'm not getting the hate towards Reigns/Lesnar. If they go for an all out slug-fest with Lesnar dominating in the middle and a Reigns comeback it could be good and definitely watchable. I don't get the Reigns hate in general. I agree with what Rah posted about him, the guy is a capable worker and he's charismatic in the ring and shows real fire in his comebacks etc. If Lesnar performs and Reigns shows his usual fire, I don't see what's going to be so horrible about it. I think back to the first Shield/Wyatt match at Elimination Chamber and one of the best parts of that match was Reigns slugging it out with the big guys. And seriously, people think Reigns will get booed? I can't see that at all but I could well be totally wrong. Yeah I'd prefer Bryan/Brock by a large margin because that could be genuinely special, but if I get Reigns/Lesnar I really don't mind.



At this point the biggest reason Reigns/Lesnar would make me mad is simply because it's not Lesnar/Bryan. It will just break my heart to pieces if I never get to see Lesnar vs Bryan before Brock leaves. That's an all time dream match for me, probably #1 on my list of dream matches that could still conceivably happen. When you have a chance for a *****, all time classic match, and it doesn't get taken advantage of, yea it annoys me. PLUS, the build, with Heyman going in on Bryan on the mic, could be really really special as well. Call me selfish or whatever, but I just desperately want to see the best baby face in the world (Daniel Bryan) vs the best heel in the world (Brock Lesnar) at the biggest show of the year. It doesn't happen often enough, where the main event at WM is vs the 2 undisputed #1 guys on each side. 

The other reason is, I really like Reigns and think he's got worlds of potential, and I don't want to see him get ruined and turn into Cena v2.0. I don't want crowds split on him, I want him to be a big baby face. If Reigns is perceived to have "leap frogged" over Bryan, without Bryan truly getting his run with the belt, I think it might cause a 50/50 split in the crowds. I don't want another 10 years of "LETS GO ROMAN!" "ROMAN SUCKS!". I want baby faces to be cheered and heels to be booed.

There is absolutely no reason why WM 31 HAS to be Romans year. WM 32 will be in a bigger venue, a bigger show because WWE will have to stack the card to fill that place up, and it'll be the perfect night to crown Roman if he's earned that spot. I'm just tired of guys getting main event pushes before they are a finished, polished, product. Roman right now isn't what he's capable of being. He has a lot of room to get better, so let him get better in the upper mid card/occasional main event for the next year and let Bryan or Cena or Rollins put him over at WM 32. Then EVERYONE will be happy. 

One more Vader match:

Vader vs Misawa 5/2/99 ****3/4

This is even better than their 10/30/99 match. The crowd is absolutely molten lava erupting liquid hot magma by the end of it, the finish is really really nifty, the bombs thrown are TREMENDOUS, and the level or work, physicality, and salesmanship is all top notch. I'm slowly starting to realize that, as amazing as Vader was in his NJPW run in the late 80s-early 90s, he was even better in his AJPW run in the late 90s-early 00s. What a beast. Reminds me of Hansen in 1993, when he was supposedly old and broken down yet better than he had ever been. Just goes to show wrestling is 90% mental, only 10% or so is your own physical ability.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

#ROOT said:


> Mabel injured him, so they wrote it into a storyline where Mabel and Yoko both repeatedly leg dropped him, crushing his face .



Yes that is right.....15 year old me remembers now. 

Didn't Yoko turn face soon after that?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The clock ticks down to #30 , the buzzer goes off, and no one is there for a few seconds. The crowd is silenced, the announcers are puzzled, then all of sudden:

"Look in my EYYYES, what do ya see!?.... A cult of personality!"

:lmao :lmao

Be the biggest swerve ever. It was all a work!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, the Border Wars iteration of Richards/Steen was really good, helped by a terrific performance by good ol' Mr. Powerbomb himself, but could've it been better if he was wrestling anyone BUT Davey Richards? Hell yes. They had a rematch, apparently No DQ (they didn't ever say it was a Fight Without Honor), at BITW 2012. And I was very curious to see this match due to my recent Steen binge, in preparation for ZAYN/OWENS. 

I was worried that Richards could semi-ruin this match too w/his shit.

Boy, how wrong I was. I doubt he ever had a better performance in his entire life.

This was fucking AWESOME. It was 25-30 minutes of two guys just beating the ever loving shit out of each other, and some of the stuff they did had me legit cringing. Spots like the Exploder Suplex on the apron w/Steen landing on his head? OUCH. Steen's Fisherman Superplex through a table? OUCH. Richard's German Suplex on two chairs? OUCH OUCH OUCH, was legit worried for Steen there. And the good thing is that those spots were NEVER set up in the fakest of ways, w/the weapons being brought out but never used 'till 20 minutes later, like the way Edge used to run things in TLC matches i.e.. Dem guns were always (going to be) used on the spot. Even if they technically weren't, the intent was that one all the time. Surprised how that could've gone down in a match featuring one of wrestling's biggest "too good to be smart" tards in Davey.

And speaking of Davey, holy crap how awesome was he? He was a total dickhead (in a good way) for the most part! Attacking Steen right off the bat when he was mocking him for O'Reilly's dump, choking out Jimmy Jacobs (who totally owned as Steen's supporter), constantly taunting the crowd, grabbing random signs and ripping them... Christ he ruled in his role. Never thought I'd say that. And I ran out of words to describe Steen, the man is just incredible. Sad thing that some of the match's not so good moments came from him (like him whipping a chain over Richards... who was totally protected by some steel covers, i.e.), NOT from Davey (I know, right!!!!), but yeah.

Maybe there was a bit too much overbooking for me at the end, w/all the ref bumps and the Corino/Cornette stuff and whatnot, and the finish itself was a little underwhelming after all they had put themselves through, but that doesn't change the fact that this was terrific. Plus, when you count in the actual story that Cornette WAS desperate to take the title away from Steen, you realize that all of it actually worked in the plot's context. Oh, and any of you worried for Richard's shit ruining everything, worry not here. This was killer.

Rating: *****1/4*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

If you're on a Steen binge or just wanna see a really good Steen performance, check out his match with Nigel McGuinness from ROH Northern Navigation. A total classic.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I'v missed a lot, best WWE matches from the past 4-6 months?


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> I'v missed a lot, best WWE matches from the past 4-6 months?


Ambrose/Rollins Lumberjack, falls count anywhere and HIAC
Cena/Brock Summerslam
Ambrose/Wyatt Survivor Series
Team Cena/Team Authority Survivor Series
Ziggler/Harper TLC


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> I'v missed a lot, best WWE matches from the past 4-6 months?


What Ryan193 said, plus:

Fatal 4-Way from Takeover II
Neville/Zayn R-Evolution and rematch from the 1st Wednesday NXT
Charlotte/Bayley Takeover II
Charlotte/Sasha R-Evolution

NXT ain't exactly WWE, you say? FUCK YOU, I say :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*The Great American Bash 2007*

I remember nothing from this event. Either it's for a reason (aka the show sucked), or my mind just isn't what it ice cream.


*MVP Vs Matt Hardy - WWE United States Championship Match*

Time to see if Matt can drag MVP to a good match. If anyone can it's Matt Hardy, but MVP still sucks so bad even the best wrestlers struggle to do anything decent with him .

Well, this was a surprise :mark:. They work a nice, snug competitive match, something you'd see on a regular basis on Smackdown in 2006, and every now and then still in 07, like here.

MVP looks better than usual, but damn, Matt Hardy is on a whole other level. How fucking good is this guy? Still sucks that it was Jeff that ended up being the more popular Hardy and got the big title push .

Wish I'd wrote more about this match, but I was too busy simply ENJOYING it . Best MVP match? Can't think of anything that comes remotely close tbh. Matt Hardy brings out the absolute best in people. Which makes me wish we got a big match between him and Christian in 2009 on ECW or something, rather than the Hardy Vs Hardy feud lol. They could have torn the fucking house down on any card that year.

So the Playmaker ends the match and MVP retains. God, the Playmaker has to be one of the worst finishers, up there with the People's Elbow.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


Dusty Rhodes shows up. Aaand my memory of this event starts to come back. He has a Bullrope match with Orton :lmao. Dusty starts telling a story about cows :lmao. Then he moos. FOR NO REASON :lmao.


*Jimmy Wang Yang Vs Shannon Moore Vs Funaki Vs Jamie Noble Vs Chavo Guerrero - WWE Cruiserweight Championship Open Match*

Cole: "Anyone is eligible for this Cruiserweight open as long as they are Cruiserweights" WELL FUCKING DUH.

I'm rooting for Funaki. Or Moore. Or Noble. Or Yang.

Hornswoggle randomly runs into the ring then hides under it. OH GOD IS THIS WHEN HE WINS AND THE TITLE DISAPPEARS FOREVER?

Typical multi-man CW match. Everyone just keeps running in to hit moves before getting taken out by someone else coming in to hit moves. Yawn.

Yep... Hornswoggle wins the title. Despite never being announced for the match. And thus ends the CW title because Vince is a prick.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*The Sandman Vs Carlito - Singapore Cane on a Poll Match*

*facepalm*

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Melina Vs Candice Michelle - WWE Women's Championship Match*

I was considering watching this match when Melina came out. Then I realised who her opponent was.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Jeff Hardy Vs Umaga - WWE Intercontinental Championship Match*

So Matt Hardy got a great match out of a useless fuckwad like MVP earlier. So surely Umaga can get something good out of Jeff Hardy, who isn't entirely awful, right?

Lol, the ref tells Umaga to watch the throat after he uppercuts Jeff. HIS FUCKING FINISHER IS A THUMB TO THE THROAT. I don't think he cares, ref .

Umaga is a beat, just destroying Hardy in fun fashion, allowing Jeff to stick to his strength of taking a beating. Aaaaaand then Umaga applies that fucking nerve grip. BAN THE FUCKING NERVE GRIP. AND THE BEARHUG. BAN EM BOTH.

:lmao, had to pause the video to go get a drink, and the moment I clicked play again, I just heard the words "Barbeque sandwich" from JR. NO IDEA WHY HE SAID THOSE WORDS IN THE MIDDLE OF A MATCH :lmao.

Once again the referee tries to make Umaga stop something, this time to stop using the ropes to leap in the air and crush Jeff. Umaga immediately does the exact same thing, only for Jeff to get his knee up and catch Umaga!!! Guess he should have listened to the ref .

Hardy is building momentum now, capitalising on Umaga driving his own head into the mat on a missed headbutt! A mix of speed and high flying offence looks to send Jeff to the IC title, but the MONSTER Umaga just doesn't stop! THE SAMOAN TERMINATOR~!

UMAGA SMASHES HIS OWN HEAD INTO THE RING POST~!

SWANTON BOMB~!

HOLY FUCK UMAGA KICKED OUT~! Genuinely thought the match was over there lol. Don't remember who wins! :mark:

SUPER KICK~!

BUM SMASH~!

SAMOAN SPIKE~!

Umaga retains his title and comes out looking like a true fucking beast!

Great match! Umaga looked great, Jeff looked great, both guys stuck to what they are best at, and they meshed together tremendously.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


Liking how they are building up the main event throughout the night with video packages for both men. It's getting me hyped lol.


*John Morrison Vs CM Punk - ECW Championship Match*

Nice little moment with Punk hitting a Tully Blanchard suplex, here at the Great American Bash.

Wouldn't be surprised if that was the best part of the match tbh. These two have a bad track record on PPV .

Trashy Mess.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Randy Orton Vs Dusty Rhodes - Texas Bullrope Match*

I just... no. I have no desire to watch Dusty in his "prime", never mind in 2007.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*The Great Khali Vs Kane Vs Batista - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

Remember when Kane disguised himself as the Burger King so he could attack Edge, and ended up injuring him? Fun times .

And then Khali won the WHC and the fun times were done.

Why do they always have ring announcers tell you how tall someone is ONLY when they are 7ft or above lol? "COMING DOWN TO THE RING, STANDING AROUND 5 FEET TALL, ONE OF THE DIVAS"

Oh ffs, we aren't even 5 minutes into this and there is a fucking Nerve Grip. HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL THEM TO STOP IT?!?!

Sweet jebus, just when Kane shows up to break the hold... Khali puts it on him too.

Well bugger me, Khali with a Chokeslam? To both men? Did he EVER use that move again lol?

They all end up on the outside and just club the fuck out of each other and the match turns fun for a few moments . DOUBLE SPINEBUSTER TO KHALI THROUGH THE TABLE~!

Khali sells the table spot for about 2 minutes before getting back in the ring lol.

CHOKESLAM TO KHALI~!

Ya know, I'm actually enjoying this . Khali isn't in it much, and Kane and Batista beat the fuck out of each other which is super fun.

Everyone is throwing BOMBS at each other, desperate to win before the third man can show up and break up the cover. :lmao just after I wrote that, JBL says "we've got guys throwing BOMBS at each other". STOP STEALING MY SHIT, JOHN!!! 

Unfortunately Khali does retain. I was rooting (ROOT) for Kane back in the day.

Yeah, I had fun with this .

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


Video hyping HHH's return for SummerSlam. King Booker comes out afterwards. Guessing this is to start their feud. Urgh. He wants Lawler to give up his crown because Booker is the only true King, apparently...


*John Cena Vs Bobby Lashley - WWE Championship Match*

Having a bunch of legends comment on the match for the hype video really makes this match seem HUGE. Wonder how Lashley would have turned out if he didn't leave WWE. 

Big fight feel :mark:.

Starts out like you would expect from a big face vs face match. They lock up, they do the old test of strength spots, then they just go from there.

And where they go from there is having Lashley display his amateur skills and using his power and athleticism to make him look as good of an all rounder and big threat to Cena as possible. All the while Cena does a bit of brawling and throws in some of his awkward "modified" moves.

Terrific spot with Cena avoiding a clothesline from Lashley, and it's one of those where Lashley looked like he wanted to fucking MUDER Cena with the move, and he would have if it hit, so Cena had to have perfect timing to avoid it, and it was done really well and looked awesome :mark:.

:lmao according to Lawler and JR, Cena has NEVER faced anyone with the kind of wrestling skills that Lashley has. Seems Angle didn't go to TNA in 06; he was simply removed from existence! Then Lawler follows up with the "especially someone with the kind of strength Lashley has too". And somewhere Lesnar just bursts out laughing and doesn't know why. I do, Brock. I do.

Lashley is on top form here, just on the offence all the time, no wasted motion. He exploded out of nowhere with power and smashed Cena's ribs down onto his shoulder, and form there Lashley focused on the mid-section of the champ.

F-U~! Cena with an F-U out of nowhere, but he's too fucked up to cover straight away, and Lashley is able to kick out and recover quicker than Cena.

SPEA... STFU~! And it looks as shitty as ever lol .

SPEAR~!

KICK OUT~!

So Lashley got to kick out of an F-U, but only after taking almost no damage in the match up to that point, and having Cena wait about a minute before going for the cover. Cena on the other hand, has taken all this punishment and kicks out of a SPEAR straight away. LOL.

SUPER F-U~!

And with that, Cena retains.

Great match here. Made Lashley look like he could really be the FUTURE if he wanted to. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, he didn't want to and he left. TNA are trying to make him their FUTURE, but being the future of TNA is like getting a promotion at work right before it closes down .

The match has a great atmosphere to it as well, with the big fight feel that I love so much, and the crowd being super into it all, but being very, very split as to who they wanted to win. Unusual for Cena to not get booed to shit on PPV in a title match around this time .

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 11*​


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

ATF said:


> What Ryan193 said, plus:
> 
> Fatal 4-Way from Takeover II
> Neville/Zayn R-Evolution and rematch from the 1st Wednesday NXT
> ...


Cant believe I forgot Zayn/Neville R-Evolution, I have that at *****.

4 way's awesome as well.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Good to see CAL enjoying the main event of TGAB. Incredible match and very fun in its entirety. I wouldn't NO the Bullrope match because it's only 5 minutes, though. (and ORTON of course!)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

We all know YOU wouldn't NO an Orton match lol .

But 5 minutes of old man Dusty is like 30 minutes of in prime Dusty. Both are awful 8*D.

Well, only 4 2007 Shows to go; Backlash, JD, Cyber Sunday and Survivor Series. And whatever I do last will be Ramble #100 ! Still trying to decide between BL and SS for the last one. Both events have 2 big main events that are great, but I think I'm leaning more towards SS when it comes to which has the better matches (HBK/Orton and Taker/Batista HIAC > Taker/Batista LMS and HBK/Orton/Cena/Edge imo). All comes down to the mid-card I guess.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Actually there are quite a few Orton matches I wouldn't wanna watch again. I saw the Rumble match with The Miz a couple of months ago and I'll be damned if I ever go through it again.  Then there's his Best of 10,000 with Barrett where the number of matches I'd give a decent rating can be counted on one hand. Same with the Survivor Series match with Big Show.

I assume JD is next?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

There are a few Orton/Barrett's that are worth watching. Their gimmick matches (Tables, FCA and No DQ) are all perfectly watchable to me. You should know better, Randall Keith Guy :side:

Out of those 07 shows, Judgment Day is the only one that kinda sucks, so you should get that out of the way. Genuinely hope you don't NO the ECW Title match :lmao.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Oh god. CM Punk's PPV matches that year were just depressing. We all knew he could outdo everyone on that roster, but what can a human being do when they have to wrestle John Morrison and Big Daddy V in five minute matches, and then be forced to work 100 minutes with Elijah fucking Burke? Just not a good year for Punk.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Willing to take a match request if i have it, and it isn't already online.


----------



## FireCena555 (Dec 24, 2014)

*WWE is coming out with another Monday night Wars DVD*

On June 30th	Monday Night War Vol. 1: Shots Fired (DVD/BR)

WWE needs to stop with the war DVDs


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Edit nvm found it


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Wow some times this thread just fills the fuck up... 

Art Donovan was handled with class by gorilla and savage until the second or third match then they just ignored him and only answered him when they could help make him sound stupid which wasn't very hard. Meanwhile Vince is in federal court and all.

Reigns does deserve credit for how great the shield matches were but the guy is absolutely up there for worst on the Mic.

Nobody should be as bad as him and it's frustrating because just like Ziggler although Dolph is slightly better thelse two guys could be massively over as a face with almost zero haters if they just said better things. So how much of it is the writing? Probably most and I blame Vince. I live watching that Roman reigns botched interview from tlc 14. 

I will be watching Tomorrows royal rumble Monday morning in all likelihood since thats when I'll get a good feed.

I know people are going to rate the world title match high it just has great match written all over it and I'll say it again.

Jon Cena has a lot of great triple threats to his name and one of the reasons he is good in them is he isn't and doesent have to be the Main focus as there are two other guys.


----------



## Nine99 (Aug 17, 2014)

:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> There are a few Orton/Barrett's that are worth watching. Their gimmick matches (Tables, FCA and No DQ) are all perfectly watchable to me. You should know better, Randall Keith Guy :side:


TLC 2011 and February 3, 2012 matches are good. The rest can go to hell.

Funny side-note: Orton and HBK wrestled as singles competitors four times on PPV in 2007 (not counting RR and the NYR tag match) - all those four matches are in the PPVs that CAL has yet to ramble on.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> I'v missed a lot, best WWE matches from the past 4-6 months?


Summerslam (Ambrose/Rollins Lumberjack, Rusev/Swagger Flag Match, Orton/Reigns, & Cena/Lesnar) My favorite show of the year.

Night of Champions (Sheamus/Cesaro & Cena/Lesnar)

Hell in a Cell (Ziggler/Cesaro 2 out of 3 Falls, give Ambrose/Rollins HIAC a shot but be prepared to hate the ending)

Survivor Series (Team Cena vs. Team Authority)

TLC (Ziggler vs. Harper)

TV Matches: Ambrose vs. Rollins Falls Count Anywhere (RAW 8/18), Del Rio vs. Reigns (Smackdown 7/25), Del Rio vs. Ambrose (RAW Beat the Clock 8/4), and that's about all I've seen. I stopped watching the weekly shows the last couple months of the year.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

*More Great Matches from Late 2014:
* (Adding to Jack Evan's List)



These aren't the best, he mentioned most of the best matches from the fall of 2014 to now but here are some of the better ones in bold...


-Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho WWE Night of Champions September 21 2014 


*Dolph Ziggler vs Tyson Kidd vs Antonio Cesaro Triple Threat Elimination IC Title Match WWE Smackdown! November 14 2014 

Adrian Neville vs Sami Zayn NXT Championship Match WWE NXT TakeOver: R Evolution December 11 2014*

Bray Wyatt vs Dean Ambrose Tables, Ladders and Chairs Match WWE TLC December 14 2014 


Chris Jericho vs Bray Wyatt Steel Cage Match WWE Raw September 18 2014 

*Bayley vs Charlotte WWE NXT September 11 2014
*

*Dolph Ziggler vs Randy Orton IC Title Match WWE Raw October 20 2014 

Dolph Ziggler vs Antonio Cesaro IC Title Match WWE Smackdown! October 24 2014 
*

Luke Harper vs Dolph Ziggler IC Title Match WWE Smackdown! November 28 2014 
*
Dolph Ziggler vs Luke Harper IC Title Match WWE Raw December 22 2014*


Charlotte vs Sasha Banks Women's Title Match WWE NXT Takeover: R Evolution December 11 2014


----------



## Sweettre15 (Feb 27, 2014)

Even though it's not a WWE match, this involves WWE stars Daniel Bryan and Sami Zayn since it's a good 15 minute taste of what these guys could do when they wrestle each other on the main roster:






With that said, here are my recommendations for both guys:

Daniel Bryan:

Vs Cena - Summerslam 2013

Vs Bray Wyatt - Royal Rumble 2014

Vs CM Punk - Over The Limit 2012

Vs Dolph Ziggler - Bragging Rights 2010

Vs Cesaro - Smackdown 2014

Sami Zayn:

Vs Cesaro -2/3 Falls and NXT Arrival

Vs Bo Dallas - NXT Championship match

Vs Adrian Neville - All 3 matches 

Vs Jack Swagger

Vs Tyson Kidd - Any match


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Bryan's best (WWE only, would need WAY more than 5 if we were to go outside of it):

1) vs Punk, Over The Limit '12
2) vs Cena, SummerFest '13
3) vs Sheamus, Extreme Rules '12
4) vs Chavo's Caddie Ziggler, Bragging Rights '10
5) vs Haitch, WrassleMania 30

And Sami's best (again, WWE only):

1) vs Cesaro, Arrival
2) vs Neville, R-Evolution
3) vs Cesaro, 2 out of 3 Falls
4) vs Breeze, Takeover I
5) vs Swagger, NXT in 2013

Can you imagine if Sami can reach the overness he has on NXT up in the main roster, and he and Danielson actually go at it at, say, WM 33? :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> Funny side-note: Orton and HBK wrestled as singles competitors four times on PPV in 2007 (not counting RR and the NYR tag match) - _all those four matches are in the PPVs that CAL has yet to ramble on._


Are you sure about that? 

JD - yup
CS - yup
SVS - yup

And the other show is Backlash. Hmmm... not quite a singles match there .

Survivor Series 2005 Ramble posted on my BLOG~! this morning.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Finally getting back to my WWF 2001 viewing. Onto the first SD after Triple H got injured, 24.05.01.

TLC III :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

#ROOT said:


> And the other show is Backlash. Hmmm... not quite a singles match there .


Hence "singles competitors".


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm ill . Tis my excuse and I'm sticking to it .

Finally got around to updating all my text docs and my spreadsheet with the last like, 6 2007 PPV Rambles (ranking matches, events, and adding the scores to compare to other years etc). 2007 looks to end up being the 3rd worst year for PPV's in the 00's. Probably would have been way worse had they not joined up all the shows again for every PPV.

That being said though, the current top 10 matches is a pretty great list. Despite having a good amount of high quality matches so far, there was just far too much shit weighing everything else down.

Might attempt to get started with the next show.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

TWO MAN POWERTRIP


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

AUSTIN IN 01


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

thoughts?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Didn't see that entirely, but looked good from the little I did see (Rikishi smashing Rock). Their SVS 2000 match is a goodie btw.

Yesterday I went on a small Steen binge, in preparation for the possible MOTYC in Zayn/Owens at Takeover IV. Began by fittingly watching the BRUTAL Steen Wolf Ladder match w/Generico (****3/4 for that, possibly the GOAT Ladder match) and his two major iPPV matches against Davey Richards (Border Wars got ***1/2, Best In The World blew me away and recieved ****1/4, doubt any Richards match will get a higher score from me).

So today, it was Generico/Zayn's turn to get some stuff watched, and alongside the already watched Steen Wolf Ladder match, here's my RATINGZ:

El Generico vs Kevin Steen PWG Steen Wolf: ****3/4
El Generico vs Kota Ibushi DDT 5/4/2012: ****
El Generico vs Bryan Danielson PWG 10/28/2007: ****1/2+
Sami Zayn vs Titus O'Neil NXT 10/30/2014: ***1/2

- Generico/Ibushi was very back-and-forthy, which was to be expected, and did an excellent job at it. Some very impressive sequences, some great selling of the arm by Kota (although the armwork was unfortunely ignored later down in the match, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt that Kota did have his recovering time), Generico's armwork itself was relentless as I like it, the crowd was totally into it... just a great contest. Could've it been better? Yes, but as it was, still owned.

- The mere prospect of seeing the two best in the world collide was terrific. And well... this one battle lived up to any kind of expectations. This. Was. EPIC. The match's core lied in a shoulder injury sustained by Generico. Danielson didn't waste any time going after it, and his shoulder-work was just NASTY. Hell, the whole match was nasty. They totally sold me that they hated each other in the best way possible. Generico was spectacular, constantly selling the arm, always trying to find an opening, never giving up, etc.. But this was obviously the Danielson show. It's weird seeing him work as a dickhead, since he's the perfect babyface, but he's almost as perfect in that role quite frankly. Flipping off and taunting the crowd, demolishing Generico's arm, becoming increasingly frustrated the more Generico survived... incredible. Some of the nearfalls in the final stretch? Heart pounding to say the least. And the crowd, a mostly Czech one if I'm not wrong (though the more vocal voices were English so idk), was NUTS for this. At first it was pretty much split to the bone, if anything just barely louder for Generico, but only just... but later down the line, Danielson's EPIC dickhead work got the crowd to slowly become more and more Generico-favoring (for the most part) - best proof of that being them BEGGING for Generico to not tap when he was locked in the Cattle Mutilation... literally. What the fuck else can I say? If you haven't watched it, do yourself a favor. It's on YouTube, it's not that hard to find it. Plain and simple. Maybe I seriously overrated it on the STARZ~, but I just loved it that much, honestly.

- I had actually never watched Zayn/Titus before, and it was a doozle. Titus ragdolling Sami around like a blow-up doll was marvelous, and so was Sami fighting against all odds to survive the powerhouse. Titus' career match by far (at least out of those I've seen, is their match from 10/8 any better?), and a typically wonderful performance from Sami, who may be on his way to edging out Bryan as the absolute best babyface in the world.

:zayn3


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Fuckers deleted the damn video.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Rumble picks guys only say one guy for rumble match and also say triple threat.



BRYAN

LESNAR

Though there is a Big part of me that says even if lesnar wins Rollins will cash in for a second chance and someone coUld come in and set up a mania match due to interference and Rollins wins that part of it.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

BRYAN
ROLLINS


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

THE ROCK (LOL JK guys) Daniel Bryan
Lesnar

Most hyped I've been for a PPV since Summerslam. Should be a really fun last 90 minutes.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Reigns to win the Rumble, Brock to retain the belt.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

My dream scenario would be one that pairs up with Orton vs Brock. So if it's both winning each match or both losing, whichever would lead to it, non-title would be preferred as it would avoid any possible "hijacking" due to Bryan. I expect the worst, though, Reigns and Brock winning.

I'm only looking forward to seeing Reigns get shitted on. I'm 99.9% sure they're going for him to win the Rumble and anyone else will be a pleasant surprise (except Ziggler but that's definitely not happening so no worries :lol).

EDIT: Now watching the final Raw of January 2000. The Radicalz just debuted and it was awesome. :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

3-way: Lesnar
Rumble: Reigns

Cliché and predictable route... which means it's probably the one the E's going with. We all know Reigns is winning this. It'll be dogshit.

That being said, I'm pretty hyped for those two matches (the rest of the card can go fuck itself). I'm genuinely chomping at the bit to see Philly pull a Pittsburgh, only even worse, on Reigns' ass (feel sorry for the guy, but Goddamn, that's the only way this fucking company of retards learns) :lmao

Btw C2D, y u not like Dolph?


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

Reigns, Brock. But would like to see Bryan win.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

:lmao @ Big Show coming out with the worst haircut & facial combination ever in this episode. Then The Rock BURIES him with the legendary "Somebody's got a haircut" line and telling him to get his 5 dollars back, lol.



ATF said:


> Btw C2D, y u not like Dolph?


'Cause he a bland midcarder who doesn't belong in the main event. Even worse, if they put him in the main event, crowd will cheer so it'll be Punk 2012 all over for me. At least with Reigns, there's potential for endless entertainment similar to Batista last year.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> :lmao @ Big Show coming out with the worst haircut & facial combination ever in this episode. Then The Rock BURIES him with the legendary "Somebody's got a haircut" line and telling him to get his 5 dollars back, lol.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

LESNAR RETAINS TITLE

REIGNS WINS RUMBLE


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I just want to see Bryan win. If we look at this objectively, if say, someone like Reigns who has the look WWE likes were to get the support and reactions that Bryan does, it would be an absolute no brainer along the lines of Steve Austin in 1998 for Bryan to win. The only thing holding Bryan back is that he doesn't have the look they like, and when you think about it, that's fucking stupid. If Stone Cold looked like Kevin Steen, he would still be just as big of a star as he was. As long as you have A look, like you look unique, it doesn't matter. It really really doesn't. Foley was a massive star and he looked like a total slob. But that's the thing, he was unique because no one else looked like him. I don't know about you, but it don't see any other 5'8 guys that could win a Jesus look alike contest on the WWE roster, do you?

So yea, Bryan's the best wrestler on the main roster right now, he's got more fan support than anyone else, and he gets as much main stream publicity as anyone not named the Rock or Steve Austin. Why is this a hard decision to make? Give it to Bryan and see how far he can go. At the very least, you can guarantee no wrestling fan will be disappointed with Bryan vs Lesnar main eventing WM 31. You can't say the same about any other matchup, because even the most ardent Reigns/Cena/Rollins/Ambrose/Orton/etc fan will be forced to admit, Lesnar/Bryan is a money matchup and will in all likelihood be an all time great match to watch. I just want to see it before Brock leaves for good.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Rollins deserves to main event Wrestlemania after the year he's had and how phenomenal he's been week in and week out, especially in comparison to the rest of the roster. Rollins vs. Bryan pls. This could change to Lesnar/Bryan depending on how Brock performs tonight - Fuck him main eventing Mania if he's phoning it in (which Im 99% sure he will do), dream match with Bryan or not. If he actually cares though, then sure, Bryan/Lesnar sounds great.

Feels weird actually looking forward to Orton making an appearance. Strange what a few months off TV can do for a guy.

Edit: Feels weirder even caring about the product given that the only wrestling I've watched all year is three matches from WK and NXT. Haven't watched one match all year.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cal aren't you supposed to be punishing people for posting WM predictions?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I ain't a WWE Mod any more, remember?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Reigns getting booed aside, the only thing I'm looking forward to tonight is seeing Orton again. He was on fire before he left, would be interesting to see he still has that left in him. If tonight sets up Bryan vs Brock, I'm excited as well. That's the only thing involving Brock that does not receive apathy from me after the disappointment of being cheated out of Orton vs Brock.



#ROOT said:


>


Wtf was he thinking? :lmao That mustache just tops it off in terms of awfulness. Even HHH ridiculed him in the backstage segment.

Good thing he sticks to being bald nowadays, should've been that way since the beginning. Only in 2003/06 did he not look like a complete goof with hair.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Looks like a 90's boy band member who has let himself go a bit lol.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Odds on Punk at 30? From pipebomb to pipedream, I guess.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rah said:


> Odds on Punk at 30? From pipebomb to pipedream, I guess.


Pure insanity quite frankly :lmao It's far more likely for Tyson Kidd to win this whole thing than it is for THAT to happen.

If it did happen tho... I think it would rank among the all-time great shocks.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I hope they get CP Munk to come out at #30 . Would amazing for anybody in the crowd who doesn't know of CP Munk's existence. They'd just hear Cult of Personality and see a man in a chipmunk suit. Plus, the guy in the chipmunk suit was the Necro Butcher and I would LOVE to see that fucker in a Rumble.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rah said:


> Odds on Punk at 30? From pipebomb to pipedream, I guess.


Hey, someone actually read my post! 

I would probably wet my pants, in all honesty. It would be the greatest thing ever.

Pretty damn excited for the amount of SURPRISE entrants we'll get tonight.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I wish Cult Of Personality played... and then: "I'M AFRAID I'VE GOT SOME BAD NEWS!", w/Wade graciously informing us that Punk left a year ago now and he won't ever come back.

Would be the greatest moment in RR history :barrett


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

No, no. If we got _Miseria Cantare: The Beginning_, THEN it would be the greatest moment ever.

Then again, the crowd would have no idea what in the fuck was going on... :lol


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> No, no. If we got _Miseria Cantare: The Beginning_, THEN it would be the greatest moment ever.
> 
> Then again, the crowd would have no idea what in the fuck was going on... :lol


I will never, for the life of me, ever ever EVER understand WWE's refusal to pay rights fees for outside ring entrance music. It's not THAT expensive, and for some guys, like Punk, no theme will ever be better than Miseria Cantare for them. Just watching the old Punk vs Joe set, it gave me legit chills every single time watching those two make their entrances, Punk with his AFI jam, Joe with his Jadakiss "The Champ is Here" jam (Jada is my favorite rapper, too). And I disagree, the Rumble is in Philly, I'd say probably 50+% of the people there tonight would know EXACTLY what's going down if the first few drum beats of Miseria Cantare hit. The rest of the people would catch on really quickly, all they'd need to do is flash "CM PUNK" on the jumbotron. 

That said, my personal favorite theme for quite a while is Kevin Steens "Unsettling Differences" by Blue Smock Nancy. Just the absolute picture perfect theme for a cat like Steen, and as great as his debut at the NXT PPV was, the one thing missing was that theme. It rivals Stone Cold Steve Austin's original 1998 theme and Takers "Funeral Dirge" for greatest ring entrance music, ever, IMO.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

CP Munk uses the best version of any Punk song. 




Further proof that he should be #30.


I'd actually watch the Rumble today if I hadn't fucked up my network sub.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I hope they get CP Munk to come out at #30 . Would amazing for anybody in the crowd who doesn't know of CP Munk's existence. They'd just hear Cult of Personality and see a man in a chipmunk suit. Plus, the guy in the chipmunk suit was the Necro Butcher and I would LOVE to see that fucker in a Rumble.


Literally on the verge of tears after this.


----------



## RATED R RULES (May 27, 2007)

Watched the Rumble Sheamus won yesterday (the year escapes me tbh) and I thought it was totally dreadful bar the great last two battle. Literally no star power in that one at all. Up there in the worst Rumbles I remember. What do people pick out as the WOAT Rumble?

How's This for an outlandish (and mostly terrible) WM 31 Card prediction
Roman Reigns vs John Cena © 
The Rock vs Brock Lesnar
THE Undertaker vs Bray Wyatt
Triple H vs Sting
Seth Rollins vs Randy Orton
Daniel Bryan vs Rusev (Please no)
Dolph Ziggler & Dean Ambrose vs Kane and Big Show (Authority storyline crap unless they're all just in the Andre thing)
The Miz vs Damien Mizdow
Divas Nonsense
Andre the Giant Battle Royal 

What I actually think will happen
Reigns vs Lesnar
Cena vs Rusev
Sting v Hunter. Plus a load of other crap.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

It was 2012. I watched it not too long ago with my girlfriend and had a lot of fun with it despite the lack of star power. Final two was really awesome. Gotta make the best out what ya got sometimes and get creative, ya know?

My picks for my two least favorite Rumbles are 1994 and 2014. 1994 had no suspense to anything and most of the eliminations felt meaningless.

This crowd LOVES Cesaro! Match was a mess, but it had the right result. Off to a good start. (Y) Give these two a title shot!


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

RATED R RULES said:


> Watched the Rumble Sheamus won yesterday (the year escapes me tbh) and I thought it was totally dreadful bar the great last two battle. Literally no star power in that one at all. Up there in the worst Rumbles I remember. What do people pick out as the WOAT Rumble?


2015

2013 when Cena won. EVERYBODY knew he was winning and Rock was winning to set up a rematch to pass a torch.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

1999 was an inexcusably bad Rumble. I don't remember anything special happening in 1991 either.

Just a reminder that technically speaking, The Miz is Mizdow's stunt double.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

What the hell? That was a actually a GOOD tag team title match...


----------



## RATED R RULES (May 27, 2007)

Erm so I thought that Divas tag match was really quite good. Is there something wrong with me?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I haven't paid attention to anything so far. Like I'm watching but I'm not actually watching.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Divas match was worked well but they cut it off too soon for it to be anything better than decent.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I liked the tag title match too. No real issues. Mizdow is a great performer. May not be a great in-ring worker or a technician or ring general. But he has a connection with the crowd that is undeniable. He knows how to perform.


----------



## RATED R RULES (May 27, 2007)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> The Divas match was worked well but they cut it off too soon for it to be anything better than decent.


Oh yeah it wouldn't do well STARZ wise but I mean I watched it and didn't want to gauge my eyes out which is rare for me watching most Divas matches. Bellas have become watchable nowadays. Nikki in particular has improved sooo much


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

★★★★ for the triple threat. Rollins is DA MAN and the future! That corkscrew splash was amazing. He was the MVP of this even though Bork was awesome looking unstoppable giving everyone Germans and Cena did his part just fine.

Now it's time for Reigns to get eaten alive!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Oh my god guys. I busted the biggest nut ever for that Triple Threat. Instant fucking classic. Rollins busting out the phoenix splash was beyond epic.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Triple threat wasn't that good.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Brock Lesnar made me sweat. That was insanity. And Rollins is a made man. This is how Lesnar's reign should have been booked. Even in defeat, his opponents can look incredible.

EDIT: Fuck this I'm gonna continue watching WCW 1992.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

lol Bryan out


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

**** for the Bork/Cena/Rollins match. Pretty damn great.


:lmao at this Rumble. So far, it's taking the cake for WOAT Rumble. This is just awful. I'm about to go to bed, this is so predictable.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

that was the most hilarious match I've ever watched I think

can a match be THAT anticlimatic?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

They wasted a Rock appearance for this? They wasted Daniel Bryan teasing retirement for this? THEY WASTED THE FUCKING STREAK FOR THIS?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

And McMahon still claims he listens to his fans. I hope the WrestleMania crowd eats Reigns alive.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

:ti at that Rumble match.

At least the WWE World Heavyweight Championship match was fun. Although there was a lot of no selling, it was still entertaining to me. Rollins was the MVP of that match. Dude was on a whole different level.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Ambrose and Ziggler getting eliminated by Show/Kane is one of the shittiest manners ever :lmao


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Easily the worst Rumble match ever (that I've seen). Worse than 2012, worse than 1999 and I can't comment on the ones from 88-96 (save 92) since I haven't seen them yet.

Nothing could save this trainwreck. They tried playing it safe by removing Bryan early and made the final four three heels that nobody likes in hopes of getting Reigns cheered. But not even The Rock could help this useless sack of shit. I guess they didn't bring out Orton because they feared he would be a threat to Reigns' reactions. Even Batista got some cheers last year, lol. (several people front row from hard camera side jumped up in celebration)

Just an awful Rumble match with nothing good about it other than some minor nostalgia with Bubba Ray and DDP hitting some classic moves. The rest of the match was GARBAGE. Boring first 10-15 minutes, was starting to pick up when Bryan came in and then was ruined with his elimination and never picked up again. This company can go straight to hell.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Kane And Big Show in the last three in 2015? They are the future I guess..


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

None of you have any idea how genuinely pissed off I am right now. Going into this, I had ZERO problem with Reigns winning, as long as it was done appropriately. The booking of this Rumble was absolutely fucking ATROCIOUS. Wyatt was building up some huge momentum... and then he gets eliminated like that!? Jesus christ. Daniel Bryan gets eliminated before NUMBER 16 and you expect us to be ok with it? Wow... And Rusev? Made him look like a joke!

I apologize to @Choke2Death for thinking there was any chance your prediction wouldn't come true. I hope they boo the fuck out of Reigns for the way they pulled that shit.

Somewhere in Chicago, CM Punk is laughing his ass off right now.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

That was like the worst Rumble event I've ever seen, from start to finish. I'm offically off the Reigns train. Poor Ambrose, Ziggler and Bryan.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I understand your optimism. Even I had the hope deep down that maybe they would not go the predictable route but then Bryan got eliminated early and it was clear as day. But their horrific tactics by booking it as shitty as possible just to make Reigns look good and possibly get cheered makes me sick. I wont deny that I'll watch Wrestlemania, but for everything other than the main event and Brock/Reigns itself just to see the crowd destroy it. But don't worry, I'll stream that event just like I streamed tonight's show. This company does not deserve a penny.

It's unbelievable how out of touch they are.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

That triple threat match was extremely, extremely entertaining from a fun standpoint, probably one of the most entertained levels ill be in a match this year, but the match certainly wasn't a masterpiece in regards to the fine aspects of the art of wrestling ala selling and flow. I loved it since I just wanted a carwreck and didnt want a intricate, layered masterpiece, but it is pretty hard to give a match like that a rating when the fine aspects of wrestling are put aside for pure entertainment. Very fun though. Very fun.Cannot rate right now. Rollins was fantastic and Lesnar looked like fucking Jason Vorheese.

At what point do we throw Reigns in there with the likes of Greg Gagne, Tom Mcgee and wwf Lex Luger in terms of forced overness. That was a truely pathetic display when NOT EVEN THE ROCK can salvage you. *I understand they've been setting Reigns up from these scripts, booking no sympathy and this rumble but jeez. *


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I didn't like the Triple Threat, a mess, wouldn't go over ** tbh.


----------



## RATED R RULES (May 27, 2007)

Triple Threat match was incredible to watch live for me and entertaining as anything. Will 1000% go down on later watches not in the moment. Some sloppiness in there definitely. Also a bit of a wreck at some stages but there were moments there I was screaming OMFG etc so I can't argue with it. Served the purpose of keeping Brock looking immense and making Rollins look a legit full on star. ***3/4 on first watch.


EDIT: Sharkboy below says everything I feel about the Reigns situation but in more eloquent terms. Rep this man.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

It's funny that when The Shield first came on the scene, I (and a whole bunch of other people) predicted Reigns as the next big thing. In fact, I remember marking out for Reigns at the Rumble last year. And no, it wasn't by default cause he was in the ring with Bluetista. It's because I generally liked Reigns.

Fast forward one year later and I'm asking myself what went wrong? I don't HATE reigns or anything like that, but I just don't care. How does one go from marking out like a little girl to having no opinion whatsoever of a wrestler? Only WWE has the answer to that.

Also, sad, pathetic attempt by WWE to have The Rock come out and try to give us his seal of approval.

The whole thing is a damn mess. Reigns could have been the guy. But they didn't let it happen naturally. They threw into singles competition too fast that it :

1) Exposed his greeness- I always used to say Ambrose and Rollins did the work while Reigns would come in with the punch and spear. And this was when I was a fan. Still, it didn't bother me. I always saw The Shield as a learning experience for him. But when they did put him on his on it was in 20 minute matches where he was exposed.

2) Forced him down our throats. Reigns got Cena booking is half the time Cena did. Good job WWE. At least it took a couple title runs and a few years for Cena to be hated by 90% of the live audience.

Also, what the fuck actually happened tonight? Bray Wyatt was on a roll and is lazily thrown over the rope? Dolph Buck comes out, tears it up and eats a KO punch and gets eliminated as if he were Kofi Kingston. 

Bryan was actually handled the best. Don't get me wrong, it was perfect camouflage so that the fans don't fucking start a riot but it beats the hell out of what happened to Wyatt. Oh and don't even get me started on Rusev. 

Another shitty start to what looks like another shitty year.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm honestly baffled by some of the negativity the Triple Threat match is getting. It was everything I wanted and more. People are complaining about "no selling" but how else is Lesnar supposed to be booked? The wins and accomplishments the man has puts on him on a completely different level. Probably gonna be my MOTY for several months to come.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The triple threat was fun but I won't go higher than* ***1/2*
@Jack Evans 187 have you seen Okada/Tanahashi or Nakamura/Ibushii from WK 9? Is the triple threat still your MOTY?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> The triple threat was fun but I won't go higher than* ***1/2*
> 
> @Jack Evans 187 have you seen Okada/Tanahashi or Nakamura/Ibushii from WK 9? Is the triple threat still your MOTY?


Yeah I've seen both. Posted about them in the MOTYC thread. In short I thought Nakamura/Ibushi was really good, but couldn't hold a candle to their 2013 G1 match. Finish felt flat and I wished they would've capitalized on the momentum they had. **** for that. Tanahashi/Okada was too long and tried to do the same 'brutal strikes' thing that Nak & Ibushi did, but it didn't work for me. Had some really good stuff but simply felt like Okada controlled the first half of the match then Tanahashi dominated the latter half. *** 3/4 there.

Lesnar/Rollins/Cena was booked so immensely well. It was completely chaotic and everything I'd hoped for. I honestly don't know of any flaw that I came across. I'm gonna watch it again in a few minutes before I post final thoughts though.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I'm honestly baffled by some of the negativity the Triple Threat match is getting. It was everything I wanted and more. People are complaining about "no selling" but how else is Lesnar supposed to be booked? The wins and accomplishments the man has puts on him on a completely different level. Probably gonna be my MOTY for several months to come.


I thought it was good but definitely not a MotYC, and not because of the no selling. Cena and Rollins throwing everything at Lesnar to take him out was actually one of if not the best part of the match to me. Some of the spots were awesome I'm just not a big fan of the two guys wrestle while one guy is out of the equation formula, even though I'll admit it worked better here because Lesnar's a monster. Fun match. Good match. Not a GREAT match to me though. Maybe it'll go up on a re-watch.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Triple threat was amazing. Need to watch it on computer but I wouldn't go less than ****1/2. Amazing match, had us on the edge of our seats and was just one hell of an experience.

Reigns winning the Rumble... well I knew it would happen. I, and nearly everyone else completely booed him out of the building. I don't know how it came across on TV, but it seemed to absolutely trump the treatment Batista got last year.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The triple threat match was the only bright spot of the night. It was amazing. I loved it. Lesnar looked like such a beast, but now it pains me to know Reigns is going to be the one to go over Lesnar. fpalm

The Rumble match sucked. I said it on another forum. Not just because of Bryan being eliminated early, but the pacing was off, Wyatt was doing nothing when he was alone except cut a single promo, and then you had that horrible final stretch with Show/Kane eliminating Ziggler, Ambrose and Wyatt. 

It also really says something about Reigns when the fans were chanting for the Anti-American, pro-Russia/Putin guy. The "We Want Rusev" chant and then him re-entering gave me some hope, but who was I kidding. Reigns speared him like it was nothing and then eliminated him. Not even Rock could save Reigns from the boos. The company never fucking learns and the RTWM will be another shitty one, but hey, at least Vince is handing the brass ring on a silver platter to Roman fucking Reigns AND Vince finally gets that Bryan vs. Sheamus match he seems to have a hard-on for.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't think there were any issues with the flow of the triple threat match. If anything, it should be considered the model of how to pace such a type of match. I also have no qualms with any sort of "one person is out of the picture and two people fight" situations in that match. Those situations came about because everyone was killing each other. Made perfect sense. I'll go ****1/4 for that match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

A repost from the MOTYC thread so ignore some of the comments about watching a different match:*

WWE World Heavyweight Championship
*Brock Lesnar (c) vs. John Cena vs. Seth Rollins (_WWE Royal Rumble_)

Apparently I watched a match that was completely different than what the rest of you saw, because this was epic. It was booked SO perfectly. Lesnar totally dominates on the opening bell, going right after Rollins but he escapes the ring. Realizing what kind of monster they're dealing with, Cena & Rollins have to team up for a short bit. One of my favorite parts of the entire match is where Cena hits an early AA on Lesnar and Rollins tries to sneak in to get the pin, but Lesnar kicks out at 1 and Rollins looks shocked. Cena then ran back in the ring and started clubbing on Lesnar again without even acknowledging Rollins. This was such a nice touch, simply like Cena saying 'you have no idea what you're dealing with kid.' They did such a great job showing that Cena was the veteran who knew what he had to do to take down Lesnar, while Rollins simply just wanted to hit a big move and try to steal a win. He even tried so hard at the finish.

Some folks have complained about "no selling"? Have you seen the way Brock Lesnar has been booked the last year? The man is UNSTOPPABLE. The no-selling is his character. The no-selling IS the Brock Lesnar brand. The no-selling was perfect. Will he ever be weakened? We've never seen anyone just run through 3 AAs like it was nothing. How in the hell will they beat this man? It was so well done. Cena laying out Lesnar on the table, just to have your usual Rollins run-in to steal the moment was beautiful. I actually thought Lesnar was hurt for a bit. I could've swore I heard him tell Heyman "I broke my arm", but he must of said rib. Whether he's actually hurt or not doesn't matter because they pulled it off perfectly.

Cena & Rollins carried the show along just fine while Brock was laid out on the floor. There were several times where I thought both of them were gonna win the belt, so that's a major plus for believability. As soon as Rollins laid Cena out in the middle of the ring, I stood to my feet. I knew he was going for the Phoenix Splash and I don't think he's ever used that move in a WWE ring to this point. He hits it and the MONSTER AWAKENS! Back with a vengeance as he cleans house, but then Rollins looks like he's gonna win the with briefcase again!? Had me on the edge of my seat, but Lesnar still comes out looking unstoppable. Wounded animal stands tall while Rollins continues to look like a million bucks. The idea that this was just another WWE 3-way where one guy lays on the floor while the other duke it out is ridiculous. This was booked perfectly based on storyline. Take out the unstoppable monster and fight it out in the ring. Incredible match. Watching it the 2nd times took a little bit of luster off, but there were so many quality nearfalls and the ending was SO fucking exhilarating. Gonna be my MOTY for a long time.* **** 1/2

*----------------------------------------------------------------

Only other thing worth watching from the PPV was (surprisingly) *Usos vs. Miz & Mizdow*. Quality tag match with some really good character work from Mizdow & believable nearfalls. The dive sequence on the outside was pretty sweet. **** 1/4*​


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

Why are people reviewing the Rumble match before it ends? CURTIS STILL HAS A CHANCE.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Brock/Bryan or bust.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brock fucking Lesnar, and Seth fucking Rollins.

Fuck the rest of it. To think it could have been rather good too. That ending though, you want to rant and rave, but you just end up :lmao and facepalming into oblivion.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Really enjoyed the triple threat. Skipped everything before it.

Fucking LOL at the Rumble match. That was pathetic.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Triple Threat was a class A DUD.

Whole event was, but that was a given. But that thing w/all the finishers in it. Haha. Die a thousand deaths. But a phoenix splash though, amirite?


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

It was all absolutely horrendous. 

I could pick out a bunch of things that were awful about that triple threat, but the one thing that really stood out to me (beyond the multitude of finisher kick outs) was Lesnar's booking in respect to him facing Reigns at Mania (unless Cena wins a rematch or Rollins cashes in before).

Somehow, some fucking way, wwe managed to book Lesnar as an incredibly valiant super strong face. The guy overcame all the odds, made a major come back from a broken rib, kicked out of a million finishers, didn't need to cheat, etc. This is the guy they want fans to cheer Reigns over :lmao If Lesnar isn't going to be the champ at Mania, why book him so strong? Only logical reason I could imagine is a Taker rematch after Rollins cashes in MITB. Doubt that happens though. Even then, why would he need to look so strong within face dynamics when he has already beaten the streak? So odd.

On the subject of Reigns being booed mercilessly, I do think there's a worrying standard being set by some fans where they will reject anything but their first choices. Having said that, wwe are massively to blame for last nights reaction. I think they've created an atmosphere where fans would even boo Reigns against Cena, similar to the Orton/Cena RR 2014 title match reactions.

They've booked Reigns like shit since the shield split up. He hasn't had to go through any real hardships which could help fans connect to him as a singles star, nor as he had any quality feuds to help make him look legit beyond beating a bunch of random people. The recent exchanges with big show are the closest they came to that, but it's a tad late. 

Forcing him into this cheesy Cena type character has damaged his previous aura beyond belief, while his matches haven't suited what got him over in the shield, aka just smashing through people. Put him in high impact ten minute matches instead of having him play fip for 99% of 15 minute matches.

I'm not going to suggest that every crowd is going to be anti-Reigns now, but failing to halt the booing, let alone gain cheers, when eliminating Rusev and gaining help from a returning Rock, isn't a good start regardless of the crowd being smarky or not. Having said that, the sheer transparency of how they set up everything to try and get Reigns cheered really back fired.

Continuing with that theme; Daniel Bryan's elimination. Why bring the guy back for the rumble, just to have him eliminated like that and piss off the crowd? I think wwe were naive bringing him back for the event barring him winning tbh.

The rumble match itself started brightly but soon lost steam during the Wyatt domination period. Some of the elimination sequences near the end looked laughably sloppy and phoned in. Big Show smiling at the crowd and saying "I know" when the fans chanted "bullshit" summed the whole event in a nutshell. It was an utter mess.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

WWE. Then, now, not for much longer.

will watch the event, I guess. Should be fun (for the wrong reasons but fun is fun)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I havn't actually watched the event yet, just saw clips, but did Lesnar really look like a babyface in the match? Rather sounds like it tbh.

Can't see it happening though as he's going up against Reigns.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Best parts of the rumble was seeing Bubba Ray return, Rock help out Reigns and Kane breaking the all time eliminations record. However, it's so obvious that Rock only returned just to save Reigns from getting booed but it didn't help a lot. Still, Rock got a positive reaction himself. I'm disappointed Bryan got eliminated quickly and Ambrose was not strong despite being eliminated by Show & Kane. Also they could have used Miz and Mizdow so much better in this match IMO.

Sadly it was yet another predictable Rumble winner.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The triple threat was fun as fuck to watch live. I didn't know what was going to happen and SETH FUCKING ROLLINS was a beast and BROCK FUCKING LESNAR was an even bigger beast. Rollins timing on his kickouts is just spectacular. He came out of that thing looking like a star and even got applause at the end which was great to see. I don't know what the hell they were trying to accomplish with the booking of Lesnar. He looked like an absolute monster but in a very babyface fashion. Maybe it's appropriate considering Reigns got booed out of the building lol. I think it will go down on second watch but as of now I'll slap *****1/2* because I haven't enjoyed a match that much in a while and it was a ton of fun above anything else. 

I have to ask though, does John Cena even have a finisher any more? The guy has spammed the AA to the point it has become useless. I guess he's going with the STF as his main now because the AA is worthless unless he hits 5 in a row. 

All I can say about the Rumble is.......... :ti. I guess they'll never learn. I felt sorry for Reigns though. It's not his fault yet he's getting so much heat because WWE are inept at booking his rise to the top. Awful all around.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Well, this absolutely sucked. Actually, I didn’t mind the show until the Rumble match so that’s leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Nothing was very good until the Title match but nothing was bad imo. I actually enjoyed the tag title match and liked Mizdow’s stuff for once because there was some actual character there. Divas match was so odd because The Bella Twins totally dominated the entire thing with the odd hope spot from Nattie. I could watch Nikki Bella all day long tbh, especially since she turned and became a bit of a badass and started wearing that sports attire. Yeaaahhhh. Ok enough creepy…

The triple threat WWE title match I thought absolutely ruled watching it live. There were genuine moments I thought Cena and Rollins (mainly Rollins) had it won and that never really happens these days. Brock was incredible in this, the no selling thing I was absolutely fine with and thought worked in the match’s favour because he looked amazing and unstoppable. Why they didn’t book him like that from the start I will never know. He looked like a true monster the way he did in the second Cena match at Summerslam. Rollins was made to look like a star here and a genuine main eventer for the foreseeable future. I really want him to be in a high profile match at Mania at this point, he’s likely getting Orton and that’s fine I guess but he deserves something bigger for me. I thought the match in general was booked really well and played to everyone’s strengths perfectly. The final stretch was edge of the seat stuff and fucking Lesnar coming in with a supposed injured rib after being taken out of the match and screaming in pain while throwing everyone around like nothing was amazing. The first AA spot was bad though (is AA the worst finisher name ever? I know it’s an abbreviation but it sounds so bad every time they call it) but I guess it was the first instance in the match of showing Lesnar was unbeatable. The way he was taken out ruled I thought with the AA's the barricade spot and the table spot, his performance was fantastic as you got to see him gradually weaken and weaken. Loved how chaotic and desparate the whole thing felt. It’s something I think will decrease in quality on a rewatch but watching it live was super fun and it was the best booked match I’ve seen for a while. Hey guys, Remember Tyler Black?

The only thing is that there was no swerve or any kind of hint of one, which was odd because I kind of expected Brock to be going in to Mania without the belt.

The rumble match…Oh Christ this match. What a train wreck once it got past the Bryan elimination. I’ll talk about that first because that’s the thing people will be talking about more than the winner probably. It was so bad. I absolutely get what they were going for here, eliminate Bryan earlier so the crowd will have time to get over it and pick another guy to cheer, hopefully Reigns because we’ll put him against the ultimate bad guys etc etc. But jesus was this done so poorly. It shows that they aren’t thinking or writing anything ahead at all, because if they were they would have had Bryan’s next feud start here with him being screwed to get someone immense heat for screwing over his dream and his reason for coming back. Instead he gets the same kind of jobber elimination that every other guy got here, he just happened to last a little longer than the people before him. And on top of that it was the perfect opportunity to get a heel over big time, but they just have Wyatt run in to him. It was just such a missed opportunity and Bryan is supposed to be a main eventer, yet he looked no better than Zack Ryder here. It also totally killed the crowd apart from a few reactions when someone they liked came out like Ziggler and Ambrose, everyone else got booed and up until that point they were a pretty good crowd. The match itself was just dull with no big moments or surprises or story or character advancements. Bubba Ray was pretty fucking cool though I have to admit. This is a guy that really became a great wrestler and character in TNA, one of the only guys to go there and improve, so I’m hoping they don’t just stick him in a tag team now with fucking R-Truth if he’s sticking around. Then Reigns entered and you get that whole debacle. The guy gets booed to high heaven and I feel so bad for him because his win couldn’t have been more obvious which must be the main reason the people reacted so strongly. I like Reigns, he’s a guy that has ‘star’ written all over him with some seasoning, but it just feels like they’ve fucked him. Good and hard. With a 16 inch black dildo. He didn’t look good in this at all. The Big Show and Kane stuff was atrocious. I don’t see what this does for anyone having those two in the last four and eliminating all the guys people like. They’re there for Reigns to look good but then Reigns doesn’t even end up looking good, it was a mess. The Rusev thing was terrible too, way to make you’re strongest booked heel look like a geek too. Add to that The Rock stuff which was a hilarious attempt to salvage a situation they clearly knew was fucked. I feel bad for Reigns because with the right booking his win could have possibly been salvaged but now it feels like the crowds are going to turn on him real quick and then they’re fucked because he’s only going to get shittier reactions as time goes on if he’s forced like this. I have no issue with him winning this, but the way they did it was pretty abysmal and such an anti-climax. Oh and I also should add this Rumble felt like it had ZERO star power at all which is so sad for the guys in it. The only guy they care about making is Reigns, apparently you can only have one super star. A joke.

So I guess Reigns/Brock is a lock now for Mania. I think it will be fine and possibly really good, but it just feels so obvious and forced after this show. What the fuck is Bryan doing then, Sheamus?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I never really got the sense that Brock behaved like a face in that match. Brock transcends the face/heel alignment. Not that it really matters anyway. That match ruled.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I never really got the sense that Brock behaved like a face in that match. Brock transcends the face/heel alignment. Not that it really matters anyway. That match ruled.


Yeah. He was just a beast but he managed to make his comeback so badass it's hard not to see it as heroic in some way I guess. 4 AA's, a curbstomp, steel steps, through the table, 2 shots with the briefcase and then he wins all the while screaming and yelling and sweating and looking like a monster in the process. It was great.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I wish Rusev won the Rumble.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> Yeah. He was just a beast but he managed to make his comeback so badass it's hard not to see it as heroic in some way I guess. 4 AA's, a curbstomp, steel steps, through the table, 2 shots with the briefcase and then he wins all the while screaming and yelling and sweating and looking like a monster in the process. It was great.


I'm yet to fully watch the match, but that sounds insane lol, and awesome.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Brock said:


> I'm yet to fully watch the match, but that sounds insane lol, and awesome.


:mark: Brock at his best.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I feel bad for Roman Reigns. How in the hell are they gonna book him to beat Lesnar at Mania? :lol Good luck kid!


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I feel bad for Roman Reigns. How in the hell are they gonna book him to beat Lesnar at Mania? :lol Good luck kid!


Two superman punches and a spear will beat the same guy who got right up after two AAs and kicked out of two others, with one kick out being at a one count.

It's going to be a trainwreck. Reigns vs. Lesnar is NOT a Wrestlemania-caliber main event. 

I said it last night, but what a slap in the face it has to be to guys who worked their whole careers to try grabbing that brass ring, and then this guy who has nothing but the look comes long, has his hand held through The Shield by two veterans in pro wrestling, and now is being handed the brass ring on a silver platter. It's a joke.

Back in 2011 while he was feuding with Cena, The Rock says the crowd sees through bullshit. For a second straight year, Vince has tried throwing bullshit at the crowd, but the fans see right through it and it's blowing up in his face. The only thing is Vince is a stubborn old man, so I doubt Bryan gets into the match this year, even with all the subscription cancellations.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*I hope Mike hasn't topped himself after this because reading his thoughts after watching is part of my routine on Mondays after PPVs and god dammit a routine is no longer a routine without consistency. 

Caught the final few minutes of the pre-show match and it was pretty fun with some well worked near falls. Tag Titles match was bad. Usos really don't mean anything but how can a tag team that is a tag team forever in this era stay over past one meaningful program when WWE don't even have a Tag Division to then not care about. I only watch Miz/Mizdow at PPVs but here the Mizdow thing is kinda done for me. He's still fun because he's a cute geek but yeah. It'll be a nice moment when he finally stands up for himself and then he becomes 2015's Zack Ryder. They officially didn't even try with the undercard it seems this card. 

Title Match was fun. Not sure I want to call it great or maybe even good but it was interesting and mostly fun. Brock looked great. That's fun to watch but it's hindered at this stage for me because I know it means nothing big picture wise. He looks awesome here and then he's a geek on Raw. It's not sustained ever. Would be great if they could ever treat someone like this who has some longevity in WWE's future too. Finisher spamming I don't even react to anymore. It is what it is. 3 AA's in a row was beyond stupid but it had a purpose I guess. Someone should rewatch and work out what % of Cena's overall offense was AA's. Must be near 1/4. Disappointed Brock wasn't buried under the table and everything else ringside so we could get the moment when he hulks up from underneath the debris. Brock looked great. It doesn't really mean anything though and the idea that all this will be transferred to Reigns is super naive. Rollins' Phoenix Splash always looks really pretty even if it fell short. WWE like a kid at Christmas with there new replay gizmo too. Cute.

Rumble was dull. Can't believe I saw a Rumble match that never once really interested me. It's like they didn't even try and spent their whole energy working out how to save face with Reigns winning rather than planning the actual match out. Nobody did anything. Like at all. I just sighed when Miz and Truth started out. Bubba was whatever. I'd be fine with a one off Dudleys nostalgia match to put someone over I guess. It was odd that Bubba came out but D-Von didn't after. R-Truth's whole gimmick is that he says wassup a lot and then the one moment in a match when he's actually required to say it he stays silent. Classic. Bubba never being in a Rumble before was surprising but also shows how much stronger the rosters were back then compared to now where about 25 of the 30 entrances were met with meh from the crowd. And yes I'm lumping Bray into that category. People just get their phones out because woah cool visual but nobody cares about Bray himself. He ran through geeks and it was very boring especially after a boring start. Were like 1/4 of the way through the entrants and I was still waiting for the match to get going. Harper did nothing which sucked. Axel should have at least come back later for his rightful spot in the match. Cole shouting all over Rowan that he isn't actually in the match just confused an already confusing matter. I have no idea why Rowan now is a good guy and disliked Harper or Bray. Harper apparently turned into a tactical genius with the double cross. I don't know why. They did nothing with these guys together besides kill more time. Splitting them up worked out real well. Boogeyman took someone's spot. I hope Gabriel quit when he found out Boogeyman was taking his spot. He has great face point though. His cameo sucked though. 

Bryan should have never been in the match. Simple as. It served no purpose and he's served no purpose working before the PPV. Just have his first match back be at Mania. If they didn't have faith in the show doing well without him then maybe he should have won. It really was just get him and get him out. His elimination was so geeky. He just gets knocked over like all the other geeks in the match. At least have him eliminate Bray and then have Bray come back and eliminate him so you have an out and some heat on a heel. Heat on a heel, I know right? Bray was in there a lot but really did nothing of note. DDP going Diamond Cutter crazy pretty much told everyone Orton wasn't coming. Goldust just slappin Cody was great. The Stardust gimmick is odd and a waste of Cody but Cody's pretty great at it if you look past the waste part. Highlight of the match is probably Goldust's super goofy AAAAARRRRGGGGHHH running at Reigns before being eliminated. Kofi's spot was awful. Kofi's spot being a thing is awful. Mizdow cameo was cute. I wonder if Titus was supposed to somehow break Santino's record and botched it. Kinda amazed of all the guys they've tried to push they've never once really put any momentum behind Titus. Reigns came in and lay in the corner all match. I assume they were that sacred of him getting wrecked by the crowd that they just kept him out of the action to not antagonise them. Ryback, Ziggler and Ambrose all got nothing out of the match which was another lost opportunity. Besides Reigns the match put Kane and Big Show over the most. Yes Kane and Big Show in 2015. One of the many many many things wrong with The Authority angles is that it doesn't put any heat on heels who can actually use it. Sure Hunter is over as a heel which is nice for his 1 match a year. Seth has got some heat from it at least but that's it. Then when it comes to scenarios like this the best they have is Kane and Show and nobody cares. At least give a Ryback or a Barrett or a Harper their rub where it can mean something. 

Ending was atrocious. No big final 4 feel which is kinda corny but much better than the alternative. They spoiled Rock's "surprise" cameo themselves which was super dumb. Either announce he's there ahead of time and let his star power mean something or keep it top secret so the surprise element means something. Instead people pretty much half expected it and it lost a lot of its impact. I think it helped kill the crowd down a little because there was no big space of time to really crap on Reigns but again you're booking a match so the guy you want to give everything to doesn't get shit all over. I'm fine with Reigns winning and Bryan doesn't need to main event Wrestlemania yet again like the petulant vocal fans feel but if you're booking like this then there's a major issue. These fans are just as bad as WWE with being stubborn about it being their way or no way too. It's just a horrible dynamic. The "omg Rusev is still in the match" moment was super dumb because it's just intelligence insulting to think everyone forgot RUSEV hadn't been eliminated. Yeah maybe the most interesting elimination after Bryan or Reigns. They do that spot all the time now and it only really works with the Santino moment when you do it with a guy whose been gone for so long and who you don't consider a contender to win. Cole's call was horrendous. The bell actually rung which was I guess amusing too. Then Rusev runs in and goes straight back out like a massive geek. Worst Rumble I can recall seeing and that has nothing to do with the outcome. I'm honestly stuck to name one great moment in the match or even one significant one. I guess Bryan's geeky elimination classes as that but barely anything else besides the finish. 

Highlight of the night was Heyman trying to run out of Brock's way but actually being slower than Brock and ultimately actually running directly into trouble and almost being run over by the steps. 

They started Cena/Rusev on the post-show too so I guess Lesnar/Reigns, Sting/Hunter and Cena/Rusev are already booked in. Rollins seemingly being away from the title picture now I guess opens Orton/Rollins up. Not sure how you give Orton anything else besides maybe Show to guard Rollins and then do Orton/Rollins after Mania. Still going with Bryan/Wyatt. Guessing Ambrose ends up with Show because Show will get one of the remaining top babyfaces. Then you have Ryback and Ziggler pretty much out in the cold. Sheamus probably turns on one of them to set a match up. Really really whatever card (again). *


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I think it'll even be more insulting if they tried to work Bryan into the title match again, simply because it'll be them saying 'hey guys we fucked up again but we can make it right again... right?'. Just completely lazy and more bullshit that won't help Reigns. I honestly feel horrible for the guy. He's done everything right up to this point in his career and this company just booked him in the biggest career suicide they could've possibly done. He won't get booed by everyone, but it'll damn sure be a lot of people. I told my girlfriend to be prepared for this and she has NO idea what happened to Batista last year.

LOLOL at all the people cancelling their Network subscriptions. Good way to give the fans what they want going into Wrestlemania, huh Vince?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yea I don't really understand the hate people are giving to the 3 way, I thought it was an absolute blast to watch live, but meh to each their own.

Brock came out looking even stronger than he did post Summerslam 2014, if that's even possible. That sequence where he kept popping up after AA's was just nuts. The best part about it is, realistically, it makes perfect sense as the AA is a total shit finish and shouldn't be able to hurt Brock all that much anyway. The problem is now that AA finish is just about done. Cena had already spammed it to death in recent years, but last night that finish finally got buried for good, IMO. Then again, Brock is a totally unique case, he's the indestructible monster and no one else on the roster can compare with him from a booking standpoint.

The only way to salvage this is, have Reigns turn 100% heel tonight and have Brock be the nominal "face" without really changing anything. I've said this for a while, without Brock cheating at all, it's gonna be really difficult for anyone but the most over BABYFACE (like Bryan, Zayn, Ambrose, or Ziggler) to get cheered against him. It's just too much fun to watch him do his thing and wreck people and no sell their finishes. That said, even with Brock's no selling of some moves, he still did SELL really really well at times, my brother in law who is a casual fan legit though Brock was hurt when he was receiving medical attention. Brock is fantastic at selling, that's what makes it cool when he does his monster routine, he keeps no selling until someone finally wears him down, and once that happens and he starts selling, it makes whoever his opponent is look 10 times better for having finally gotten the Beast on his heels.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Seriously, why the fuck even put Bryan in there? So dumb. The reaction probably wouldn't have been as bad if they didn't put Bryan in there.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Not only did they put Bryan in the match, but they teased his retirement. Expect some Arn Anderson reviews tonight.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Triple threat was great. Rollins stole the show! 

****1/4


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

god the Wyatt stuff was dumb. Commentators were hyping it up like it was some BIG TIME REUNION despite the fact that these guys only broke up for no reason four months ago. Why do Bray and Harper hate Rowan now? Why is Rowan good? Why didn't Rowan just re enter the match as he pleased, considering he was never in it to begin with?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I laughed at the fact that Wyatt actually "eliminated" him over the top rope despite everyone knowing he wasn't an official entrant. That whole segment seemed pointless to me because they did some kind of triple swerve. At first I thought the Wyatt Family reunited and Rowan was gonna help them win it all (which would've been awesome), then I thought Harper turned on Wyatt (which still would've been awesome kinda), but then it all went back to normal and I was disappointed. 

It's really hard for me to fathom that Wyatt lasted 46 minutes and Rusev went for 35 because absolutely NOTHING of note happened after Bryan was eliminated and both Rusev & Wyatt's eliminations were awful. God damn it man...

Dolph Ziggler lasted 2 and a half minutes for Christ sake!


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Tag Opener was your standard affair.
Divas Match was yet another boring Divas contest.
Mizdow was the only highlight of the Tag Title match.
Triple Threat was AWESOME props to all 3 dudes.

The Rumble....

- Is it me or did alot of wrestlers get your standard midcarder Rumble appearance? no big moments while on offense and an elimination with no fanfare. Even guys who were suppose to look good didn't seriously just from performance alone did anyone look better after Sunday then before ?
- Show teaming with Kane to Dominate ? GTFO, it's been Show/Reigns for weeks why add Kane. Even the way they eliminated wrestlers was awful. Sh*t Knockout Punch then slowly picking wrestlers up and tossing um out the ring.
- Wyatt dominates simply to get punched and slowly SLOWLY tossed out the ring :no:
- Rusev :no:

Bubba Ray, DDP, Boogeyman & Rosebuds save were the only highlights of the Rumble. 
I knew Reigns would win I told my friend he'd win and my friend still ordered the show, but they did no one in the Rumble any favors the way they put that match together.

Another thing....
It's sad to see so many fans fall in line and accept WWE hell any company's way of doing business. How giving the fans what they want can be seen as a bad thing by anyone I'll never know.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Tonight's RAW has been cancelled! "Due to weather conditions", but I'm not so sure there isn't more to it.

I've never seen anything like this.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

> but I'm not so sure there isn't more to it.


*:jordan4 wut?*


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Seabs is dead on when he says absolutely nothing happened in the rumble. Literally nothing of note.

I still can't get over the Bryan elimination. Not the fact he didn't win, but the manner that he was eliminated is one of the worst things I've ever seen because this is a guy you've built up huge going in to it, teased his retirement, he's the most over guy in the company, the guy the fans want to see, and you eliminate him half way through the rumble like some jobber. It was so fucking bad. They can't be surprised by this reaction at all.

Oh and I not only feel bad for Reigns but also The Rock. They wasted his return on this, drowned out by boo's. I barely even noticed he came out.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Raw cancelled? Ohhhhhhh it's the damn weather.

What a 24 hours lol.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Seabs said:


> *:jordan4 wut?*


Hahahaha. Emergency meetings! (just kidding, of course) I have no idea how much snow is up there.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

With Bryan, it's sad. Imagine them pulling that with HHH in 2002? He was red hot when he returned, people wanted to see him win the Rumble and then... he loses after being in for 10 minutes, half-way through the match.

Raw cancelled... well, I imagine they're going to do SOMETHING... probably won't be anything important though.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

I thought they cancelled Raw to re-book the whole Road To Wrestlemania after Reigns debaccle.

*My Rumble Thoughts:*


Look, say what you want...a lot of shitty things happened. But I LOVED the booking of the first half.

Wyatt stuff was great, as was Bubba. They managed to fill good spots with Cara, Ryder, Fandango, I liked that break as we had a lot of good people in the first ten.

Just loved the crowd shitting on New Day and Reigns. Made my night.

The Rumble is supposed to entertain. This did.

Call me crazy but **** 1/4.*

Pretty sure if Bryan and Reigns switched spots there would be no constant booing, etc.... How the Rumble would of been recieved overall?


I think this was a fun Rumble, it wasn't terrific but I was laughing at it more then I was with it. Reigns is terrible. He didn't do anything in the Rumble match to make you want him to win. They probably booked this in purpose so there was no boo's until the end where The Rock and hopefully his music would drown out the boo's, to which neither did.

:lol



Also Triple Threat, as expected great build up, great match, MOTM, meaning MOTY.


*
**** 1/4*


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Loved the story they told in the triple threat match. Basically Brock is god and Cena/Rollins tried to finish him but still couldn't get it done.

Problem is, however they get the title off Brock, they need to almost kill him to do it.

I do like tho, that they saved the curb stomp to the briefcase. I could see that being the ultimate finish.

Sucks I'm never going to get Brock/Orton.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm still confused as to how WWE took one of their most over guys (Reigns) and made him the most hated guy in the company right now, in LESS THAN ONE YEAR. That's got to be a record.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> With Bryan, it's sad. Imagine them pulling that with HHH in 2002? He was red hot when he returned, people wanted to see him win the Rumble and then... he loses after being in for 10 minutes, half-way through the match.
> 
> Raw cancelled... well, I imagine they're going to do SOMETHING... probably won't be anything important though.


Roman Reigns tribute show :vince$ :reigns2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So, a bit of thoughts on the Rumble:

Pre-show: Didn't watch
Ascension/Outlaws: Not just a "didn't watch", a borderline *NO*, Cal-style, and I don't do that often
Usos/Mizdow: Only watched the final stretch and liked it
Divas: Didn't gave a shit

Way to go, more than half of the card was fucked already.

Lesnar/Cena/Rollins: **** for it. Honestly, loved how they handled the Beastiality kurt) of Lesnar, and how Cena and Rollins were totally desperate and willing to pull out all the stops to put him down. That was quite well done, frankly. The match was, admitedly, a bit too spotty and a bit too much of a finisher fest, but eh, I had tons of fun. Plus, DAT PHOENIX SPLASH BY DAT SETH BLACK GUY.

Rumble: DUD of DUD's. No joke. It seems that every year, the WWE manage to top their previous Royal Rumble DUD of DUD's. In 2013 it was Punk/Rock. Last year it was Orton/Cena. This year was the Rumble match itself. 1999 is better than it. 1995 is fucking 1992 in comparison. I did like some of the stuff in it - Bubba Ray, the Wyatt Family fighting each other (despite the GIANT plotholes in logic), DDP and Sandow too more or less - but this was just a disaster of the worst kind. Every Royal Rumble, even the bad ones, can say that they had at least one period of constant entertainment... except for this one, because this one was for 99.9% of it dull and boring as shit. And the debacle w/Bryan... fpalm. Just... fpalm. Ziggler's booking was dogshit, Bray got to look good for a while but most of his wrath period was boring and then he was sidelined and eliminated in a dogshitty way, Ambrose was eliminated in a dogshitty way, Rusev was eliminated in a dogshitty way... Reigns just had to look good, didn't he? We had no Orton on sight, no NXT guy on sight, hell, I would've accepted Bo Dallas' return just fine. But NOPE. All eyes had to be set on how the fuck were they going to save their skins after the most shat on victory in Rumble history. Titus breaking Santino's record was totally botched. The Rock saving Reigns' ass was totally botched. The booking was just totally botched. This was atrocious. I'll NEVER, EVER want to watch this crap ever again... except to see Philly shit all over Roman Reigns when we look back 10 years from now and we see Super Roman every week pulling John Cena'esque shit on an even more constant basis than currently.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bubba Ray comes back into this shitstorm lol. DDP apparently looked great though, at 56 too.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'd be pretty pissed if I paid $55 for the ppv last night, cause they're showing it on free tv right now.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

*Steve Austin & Arn Anderson vs. Steiner Brothers (6/13/92)*

Scott Steiner does one of those crazy Jeff Hardy flips in the beginning of the match, which mean that this has to be good. I really like how the initial babyface shine segment for the Steiners isn't the traditional punches and dropkicks that you would see from faces during this time period, but it tends to be suplexes and slams instead. Even today, you don't see that in this move-crazy world. While Austin is getting his ass kicked, Arn connives in a nefarious manner per usual and baits Scott into falling to the outside. I didn't really like the choice of using bearhugs and sleeper holds by Arn and Austin during their period of control, especially since neither guy did anything heel-ish during that period until Scott started making a comeback. That was when things got better and Austin and Arn start gouging Scott's eyes and choking him on the ropes. 

Ole Anderson is the referee and he is terrible at pretending not to see the heels do evil things behind his back and he doesn't know how to count pinfalls. Scott's teased comebacks are the highlights of this match as he pulls off butterfly suplexes and backslides for convincing nearfalls. Rick finally comes in and spears himself which leads to a botched sequence that you have to see. Really cool looking sunset flip by Rick to win the match, but this match could have been better if that terrible botch in the end didn't occur and if there was more time for all four men to do what they probably wanted to.

*Nikita Koloff & Ricky Steamboat vs. The Malenkos (7/4/92)*

Why do Dailymotion links for some matches not work, but embedded Dailymotion videos in websites like Popscreen for that same exact video work? Thank goodness that is the case or else I wouldn't have been able to watch Dean Malenko in his youth here. Big fan of babyface Nikita and Ricky and Joe are Ricky and Joe so this should be good.

Compared to the matwork that you would see with guys like Dr. Death and the Steiners, these four guys emphasize speed and fluidity which I prefer far more than sluggish restholds. Everyone here looked like they were having lots of fun doing monkey flips and cartwheels. I also liked how Joe Malenko figured out early on that Steamboat would go for his series of armdrags and deliberately tried to avoid them after getting locked into them twice. Dean Malenko does a crazy full flip to reverse a top rope maneuver from Koloff. The action here is like nothing you would see in America at the time. Dean even does a dropsault! What the hell was that move by the Malenkos, a super Hart attack? There is so much action here, but at the same time it isn't overwhelming and every move leads to the next sequence which opens up either the Malenkos to work on Steamboat's back or Steamboat to work on Malenko's arm. 

WHAT THE HELL JOE MALENKO DOES A RAINMAKER! And then Nikita makes the hot tag and punches and kills the cruiserweight brothers. This is seriously a must watch as I can't recall anything like this. Now I need to find more old Malenko matches. They knew how to make a heel control segment interesting and not just a time filler. *RECOMMEND*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

WWE officially announced John Cena vs. Rusev at Fast Lane. I can get behind that, especially on a "B" show.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I just hope those two don't have a second match. Ryback should be the guy to get the rub from Rusev, not Cena.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

:clap :clap :clap

Bravo to Paul Heyman for putting over Reigns and his entire family so strong. One night after everyone was pissed out of their minds and they gave the right man the microphone to ease the situation. Really smart move to have that sit down interview with all 3 of them. Reigns didn't say anything except I'm gonna beat you and win the title & you know it, but it wasn't _that_ awful. This is becoming interesting how Heyman has compared the situation they're in now to the Brock/Rock situation in '02. Will the same thing happen? We shall see.

Bryan's interview was intriguing. He mentioned how pissed off he was, how it was his fault that he didn't win the Rumble, apologized to the fans, and somewhat congratulated and scolded Reigns in the same sentence. He said that Reigns took advantage of the opportunity, but he (Bryan) didn't have "any help from The Rock". He looked legitimately angry, to be honest. Clearly mentioning how he never lost the title and having him face Lesnar would've been the PERFECT story and the perfect David vs. Goliath match. 

Having to cancel the live RAW may have actually been a blessing in disguise.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Any star ratings for Raw matches tonight? Need to know what to watch. :troll

But seriously, that ending segment was all Heyman. Bless the man, he really tries and he almost makes it work. The issue is, this was the case last year to. Heyman really tried to make the Taker/Lesnar feud work but due to the part-time schedules of both guys, it just couldn't work no matter how great Heyman was. This year just replace Taker being a part-time guy with Reigns being a terrible talker. Heyman needs somebody to work off of and Reigns was awful tonight. His first segment had that terrible story and just his usual forced delivery, and the second was riddled with awkward pauses (thankfully WWE didn't give his a close-up of his face during that as it would've been even more painful). 

And this was a backstage interview where he didn't really have to over-do anything, yet it still sounded like he was. When he has to go out to the ring and cut a promo, it's going to be worse... a lot worse. Hell, it even seemed like he was trembling by the end of it (can't say I blame him considering who's standing across from him, but considering he's supposed to be this badass it just doesn't fly with me). Heyman can try and give 110%, but even as the GOAT mic worker I seriously doubt he can get it done.

It's not too late for WWE to add in Bryan or Ambrose or Ziggler or somebody to save the Wrestlemania main event and feud. They can keep Reigns in if they want to, but just have a triple threat or fatal four way so the build and match aren't both atrocious.


----------



## JERIPUNK (Nov 19, 2009)

Tey need to realize a few things:

1.) The Royal Rumble dictates the pace for WrestleMania season and the Royal Rumble draws smarks from all over the region, and to some degree the country. The casual fans then see that Reigns got shit on like Batista and follow suit.

2.) The IWC might be the minority, but we are the only ones subscribing to their stupid fucking Network. According to Meltzer RAW has probably 7 million people watching on average Monday, with about 3-4 million watching at any one time. Only 700k subscribe to their Network and most of them are us, the IWC. These six million other casual fans get their fix watching the free TV every week. They aren't going to buy the Network. They go to their smark friends house to watch the Rumble and WrestleMania. If we quit getting the Network, they won't suddenly start subscribing, they'll just watch Game of Thrones or Walking Dead or baseball or whatever the fuck they watch on every other weekend instead on WrestleMania weekend.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I really hope they book Reigns vs Big Show for Fast Lane in a Last Man Standing like it has been rumored. Just the right situation so the crowd shits all over Reigns and we get Batista vs Del Rio 2.0 from last year with all the random chants. Luckily, "easing the situation" is not gonna do them any favors long term because by Wrestlemania, Reigns will have to stand on his own feet and when that happens, crowd will shit all over his "moment" and maybe the company gets the message when it also starts hurting their bank account rather than just the live audience being negative.

They got away with Cena getting booed because he already had a fanbase, nobody gives a shit about Reigns, he didn't get over organically and he's already hated before he's even won the title.

Wont even watch the segment with all due respect to Heyman and Brock. Just the thought of this clown headlining Wrestlemania and being a Royal Rumble winner makes me sick.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Roman Reigns vs. Big Show in a last man standing match? :lmao Where are those RAW 2000 episodes? We need them now more than ever.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Triple threat was great fun. Had flaws (Lesnar ate 7 finishes by my count) which made parts of the match feel lazy and gratuitous at times, but overall?:bo J&J Security and Bump Overstock had a nice role. Was damn exciting - I knew where Seth was headed when he laid Cena out - to bad the Ace of Spades he had been holding onto looked like more like a Nine of Clubs when he played it. 

I thought the match had a nice story - told at 80mph, granted, and sort of went overboard at the end with Brock shrugging off a comical amout of finishes. But, that's WWE - if you're going to do it, don't be subtle about it dammit! :vince 

And I'm actually quite fond of a proper no-sell. Wrestling isn't a mathematical formula. The 'no-sell' is a neat point of storytelling, and if done right, can really speak to the audience. When Brock stays down after the table spot, and comes up clutching his ribs after it, you _believe_ that shit. "Wounding the Beast" is great storytelling, and you must no-sell some to make that really work. Props to the commentary team as well - some of their best calls in a while really put the match over. Crowd was alive throughout, and really loved it. Give ****1/4 for it and probably the best I've seen this year so far. Screw wrestling by numbers, make it matter and make it fun/exciting.

Rumble was a debacle, but everyone knows that. The question I had to my buddy was "If you've got to plan an entire damn Rumble around minimizing negative reactions for the winner, do you like your chicken crispy or grilled?" You got Bryan gone less than half-way in, Big Show and Kane eliminating every other popular face and heel in this the year 2015 before they conveniently distract each other, and Reigns (who had only thrown Goldust out in comedic fashion by that time, iirc) takes advantage and throw both out at the same time (so strong), then before you can say "Everyone knows Rusev's under the ring" Reigns Spears and chucks him over the top for the win. Oh, and Rock. His face was priceless. Priceless. 

And I damn called the stupid Cesaro/Tyson pairing with Rose against New Day _on the Pre-Show_. What a waste the last 9+ months have been for him. Match was okay; Cesaro is capable of so much more. 

On the bright side, Nikki slammed that elbow home for the finish, eh?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

What I don't understand about Bryan's position is the sheer hypocrisy at play. He's treated to a massive middle finger in the Rumble because he isn't this "big star" or draw yet they brought him back specifically to hype Smackdown's move and then to increase PPV buys.

What is it, is he a ratings mover or not?


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Rah said:


> What is it, is he a ratings mover or not?


he is a ratings mover they don't like.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

He's a star ratings mover 8*D


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Guys go check out the Wade Keller/Steve Austin podcast. Some great insight from stunning Steve.

And of course, go watch the Malenkos/Steamboat and Koloff. You won't regret it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Stunning Stone Steve stuff is always :mark:, but atm I feel more like watching more Generico/Zayn and Steen/Owens stuff. Because they're among the BITW, and ftm they're safe from Vince McMahon's ultra-bullshit down in NXT.

EDIT: RATINGZ for what I've seen:



> Kevin Steen vs. El Generico, PWG Steen Wolf 2011 - ****3/4
> El Generico vs. Bryan Danielson, PWG European Vacation II: Germany - ****1/2
> Kevin Steen vs. Davey Richards, ROH Best In The World 2012 - ****1/4
> El Generico vs. Kota Ibushi, DDT 5/4/2012 - ****
> ...


- The Zayn/Breeze pair peaked with the epic they had at Takeover, but the rematch was also pretty damn good. This one played up 100% to the fact that Zayn had never beaten Breeze before (apparently he was 0-2... I know Breeze pinned him at TO, but can someone help me out on the 2nd time around?). Breeze constantly going for a quick pin at the start was perfect... as was his entire character work in this match, really. He was immense here, one of his best performances easily. Zayn was his usual self, which is better than what many guys at their best could take. That's how good he is. Problems w/this match were: a) the crowd kinda sucked, a surprise considering it is NXT; b) the heat segment in the middle was pretty dull honestly, the only flaw to Breeze's performance really; c) it felt much shorter than I expected it. Still, a pretty good match regardless w/some excellent storytelling and a great way to continue Zayn's "road to redemption" arch.

- I hadn't ever seen the dark match that Zayn and Neville got at Main Event last year, which was hyped up by lots of people. Needless to say... it was underwhelming. Not in the sense that it sucked, but it was pretty much a copy-paste from their first NXT match in Nov. 2013. Not that it's a bad thing, that was a super fun match after all, but good matches don't shamelessly rip-off the old successes, do they? Plus, the crowd sucked outside of a few Olé chants and the ending. For obvious reasons, I know, but yeah.

- But you guys know the big one here is Steen/Nakamura. Two of the biggest badasses in the wrestling world atm, bar none. This was a hell of a dream match, and right from the get go the big fight feel was set, w/the crowd pulling a Shield/Wyatts and chanting "This Is Awesome" before it even started :mark:. And, well, it was awesome. I wouldn't say TOTALLY GREAT, but certainly close. It totally reminded me of Hogan/Rock WM 18 in a lot of ways tbh. Particularly, in the fact that it was this epic clash of two distinct and fun personalities, who really seemed like they didn't have much of a liking for each other, and the crowd just ate it up like the roudiest rock concerts. They were insane for this. And this match was just super fun, superbly worked as a showcase for both of these men, and it's one of those matches w/EXTREME rewatchability factor. A lot of awesome moments in this. Few examples: Steen 'mentoring' Nakamura to breathe in; Nakamura pulling a Samoa Joe and just walking away from Steen's Cannonball without giving the smallest of fucks; Kevin Kelly once botching Nakamura's name and calling him Tanahashi ; Steen kicking out at 1 from the first Boma Ye (ok, that was an honest to God mark out moment)... Goddamn, this was so much fan service right here. Pretty badass stuff.

Unfortunely, I couldn't find neither Steen/Nigel (Northen Navigation or even Injustice for that matter) or Generico/Danielson GSA4. Could somebody get me some links for those?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Double post, fuck my life.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

I just told my buddy I've been friends with over twenty years we need some time apart because I told him to watch raw while he was cooking in the kitChen at his familys restraunt the family are casual wrestling fans and love the rock so I told them the rumble was airing free on repeat so they watched it and I asked him what he thought.... He said Roman reigns looks so cool ...and that was that

He said he hates Bryan and doesent know why people cheer him. I told him he's a fantastic wrestler but he didn't seem to care maybe because he was a casual fan and all.

This got me thinking maybe this is why reigns got the rub over bRyan if casuals think Roman APPEARS to be Better then db


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

machomark said:


> I just told my buddy I've been friends with over twenty years we need some time apart because I told him to watch raw while he was cooking in the kitChen at his familys restraunt the family are casual wrestling fans and love the rock so I told them the rumble was airing free on repeat so they watched it and I asked him what he thought.... He said Roman reigns looks so cool ...and that was that
> 
> He said he hates Bryan and doesent know why people cheer him. I told him he's a fantastic wrestler but he didn't seem to care maybe because he was a casual fan and all.
> 
> *This got me thinking maybe this is why reigns got the rub over bRyan if casuals think Roman APPEARS to be Better then db*


Makes no sense - Bryan is the most beloved by the fans, casuals and amrks alike. If Bryan only got huge reactions in NY/Philly/Chicago then I'd see your point, but he consistently gets the best reactions the world over. I'd be willing to put my neck on the line and say your friend is one of very few casual fans that actually prefer Reigns over Bryan.

This isn't 2011. In 2015, Bryan's popularity transcends the casual fan/IWC boundary.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Was there a backstage segment between Lesnar/Reigns on the Network? I'm sure I saw a video somewhere that WWE put on YT.


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

*WWE Royal Rumble 2015*

Kickoff: New Day (Kofi Kingston & Big E) vs Cesaro & Tyson Kidd **1/4

New Age Outlaws (Road Dogg & Billy Gunn) vs The Ascension (Konnor & Viktor) 1/4*

WWE Tag Team Championship
The Usos (c) vs The Miz & Damien Mizdow *3/4

The Bella Twins vs Natalya & Paige DUD

WWE World Heavyweight Championship
Brock Lesnar (c) vs John Cena vs Seth Rollins ***1/2

30-Man Royal Rumble Match *

Overall Rating: 3.0


----------



## RATED R RULES (May 27, 2007)

I fully disagree the Divas match was a DUD. Thought some of the Bellas eork was very good. A bit one sided though


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Got to the Texas 10 man tag in my 2000 viewing and holy fuck is this as fun to watch every time. Slightly botched finish aside, this is what wrestling is all about. Comparing the crowd here to the one at the Royal Rumble is day and night. It saddens to see how hard this company has fallen in such a short amount of time.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Brock said:


> Was there a backstage segment between Lesnar/Reigns on the Network? I'm sure I saw a video somewhere that WWE put on YT.


I don't think it's on the network, but it was the segment that ended RAW last night. Actually wasn't bad. (Y)


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Just a little thought that I doubt happens: Why not have Brock and Reigns slug it out in a brawl instead of the typical match structure? It would be incredibly hokey and cheesy seeing Reigns hit the Superman punch on Lesnar multiple times and watch a guy that has kicked out at one of the AA multiple times and survived three straight AAs getting right up for two of them, a curb stomp and getting put through the side barricade and a table get beat by Reigns' set up. If I'm an agent, I'm having the two throw hands. As limited as Reigns currently is, he can sell nice and actually throws hands pretty well, and if Brock Vorheese were to be dazed and put out for the count, you could logically sell it as Brock caught an uppercut right on the chin and got flashed only to get up and eat a spear that he wasn't expecting. The fans will shit on a typical wwe styled match in this case and Lesnar while excellent isn't a ring general, yet I think if these two trade fists to the face and have a more "loose" brawl structure, I think the fans might like that.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

I really would of liked Roman Reigns in the Rusev reud where Ryback is, I can almost gaurantee Roman would be recieving little to no boo's had he been in say Ryback's spot and went through everything Ryback has been going through.

Just watched Best of Nitro Volume 1 Discs's 1 and 2 in the last few days....

Such a fun DVD.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Having finally watched the triple threat from RR, I gotta say Lesnar's conditioning looked the best it's been tbh.

Oh, yeah match was rather grand too. ****1/4 on first watch, might watch it again tomorrow though so it may well go up.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> Having finally watched the triple threat from RR, I gotta say Lesnar's conditioning looked the best it's been tbh.
> 
> Oh, yeah match was rather grand too. ****1/4 on first watch, might watch it again tomorrow though so it may well go up.



I rewatched it yesterday after hearing Steve Austin put it over on his podcast as the best triple threat he's ever seen. I thought it was great live but didn't think it was THAT great. It definitely holds up on a rewatch, I get the story they were trying to tell with all the finishers and I loved Brock sticking with what got him to the top, namely suplexes. Lots and lots of suplexes, of every variety. It just works seeing a beast like him toss guys around like rag dolls. I also thought the selling was excellent in the match, yes even Brock's. The no selling was great, it made it so Rollins and Cena really had to throw only the biggest bombs in their arsenal to even phase Brock, and then when Brock would finally register and start selling, it made it even more impactful. Austin said Brock's selling on the table spot was so good, that even though he knew deep down it was a work, his eyes convinced him it was a shoot and for a second he thought Brock might really be hurt. That's art, ladies and gentleman. When you can work Steve Austin with your selling, you know you're great at it.

I haven't even mentioned Rollins, who definitely came out with a MAJOR spotlight on him after that match, even in his loss. I think it's pretty much a done deal, Rollins is the next great top heel and I'm thrilled we get to see him for another 5+ years working the main events.

So yea, after a rewatch I'm bumping the triple threat up to ****1/4. Outstanding match.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Match slightly went up for me on a rewatch. Initially I hated all the finishers but it kinda made sense in a way.

Normal moves just don't faze Brock. Cena knows this better than anyone so he goes for his biggest bombs right away. He knows he'll get beaten up badly if Lesnar's in control so he tries to just end it as quickly as he can.

Brock was so awesome in the match. I loved how he dominated 2/3rds of the match, not even troubled, just tossing both opponents one after the other. And that time when he kicks out of 3 AAs and a Curb Stomp and goes to the outside and gets on his feet while Cena and Rollins are both down. Awesome. And of course the double German to J&J and the way he caught Rollins off the top rope directly on his shoulders. MVP of the match.

Rollins possibly got more fans to notice him with this match which is a good thing. The 2 high spots of course were the Elbow drop and Phoenix Splash but even outside it, he was pretty great. And with the way Brock broke up the count after the Phoenix splash, and his last attempts to win with the briefcase shots and curbstomp attempts, it felt like he had as good a chance to win as the other two and belonged at that level.

****1/2 from me. WWE MOTY so far. :draper2


I'm a bit generous with stars though, but I do that with all matches so it kinda evens out when you look at it :lol


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

****1/4 for the triple threat. I get what they're going for with Lesnar but think him taking 4 AA's, 2 curbstomps, a spear through the barricade, hitting the steps head first, being hit by the steps, going through a table the way he did and 2 shots with the briefcase is too much.

DUD for the Rumble. Liked Bubba returning but that's about it. Reigns winning is an absolute farce.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Kinda shocked to find out from Austin that Lesnar doesn't call his matches. Don't know what to make of it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Kinda shocked to find out from Austin that Lesnar doesn't call his matches. Don't know what to make of it.


When did he say that, on this week's podcast?


----------



## looper007 (Dec 20, 2014)

Brock said:


> When did he say that, on this week's podcast?


Yep with Wade Keller, plus with Reigns In that ring. That match needs working out weeks in advance. I'm surprised Lesnar doesn't call matches.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> When did he say that, on this week's podcast?



See, I just don't know how true that is. For one, it obviously depends on the opponent whether or not Brock calls his matches in the ring. For another thing, Ric Flair says in his book that when he wrestled Brock he hadn't yet gained his mojo back so he asked Brock if he could call it instead, and Brock said sure thing and did it. 

The other thing is, watch those 3 John Cena matches and tell me it doesn't 100% appear like Brock is controlling and calling everything. He cuts Cena off whenever he damn well pleases, and essentially dominates every aspect of the entire match. You don't need to be a former wrestler to see that Brock was the one calling/controlling those matches. I got a similar vibe with the triple threat, although I'm sure they had to discuss a lot of that backstage because 3 ways are really hard to do apparently. Plus Punk said in an interview that Cena is very generous when it comes to calling matches, he doesn't mind letting his opponent dictate the entire match.

Finally, you just have to factor in who Brock's opponent was to determine whether he was calling it or not. Eddie always called his own matches. So did Undertaker. CM Punk almost always called his own stuff, although sometimes he would go 50-50 when wrestling someone like Samoa Joe or Danielson. So why would Brock try and insist on calling a match with Eddie or Undertaker when he knew he could just leave it in their hands and it would be great? I can guarantee you Brock didn't call his awful trilogy with Hunter, as those matches stunk and Brock wasn't really even allowed to be Brock. Those matches reeked of Hunter bullshit.

At the end of the day, does it matter even a little bit whether Brock calls his shit or not? Nope. Not even a little. Brock's success rate in "big matches" is off the charts great. Even with the 3 mediocre Hunter matches, Brock has still had more all time GREAT matches than Cena, Batista, and Orton, guys who spent the last decade on top. Honestly, a lot of times, it doesn't even look like much "calling spots" is involved in Brock's greatest matches. Watching his matches with Eddie, Punk, Benoit, Angle, and Undertaker, it just looks to me like two total pros just going out and WORKING. Just wrestling and feeding off each other, the way it should be. The Punk match especially has that vibe. I'd love to know how much they really discussed or called, and how much it was just them feeding off one another.

If it's truly Brock vs Reigns for the WWE title at WM 31, I hope Vince brings Pat Patterson in and let's him lay out the entire match. He did wonders with Hogan/Warrior WM 6. Reigns needs all the help he can get, if they can lay out a really exciting and heavy hitting match with a creative and believable finish, the fans MIGHT not crap on it so hard. This is assuming of course they don't do the right thing and turn Reigns heel. Always assume WWE will not do the right thing, it's just the way they do things these days.

Last thing- anyone else pissed we aren't atleast getting Rollins/Bryan for the MitB briefcase or something? If you won't give Bryan the best heel in the company, atleast give him the #2 guy and let them steal the show so the fans go home happy.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm happy that Bryan vs Rollins is not on the cards because I really wanna see Orton vs Rollins. The former is a money program for the title that can happen down the line hoping that Reigns loses the title soon enough before all the viewers turn away. The latter has the history and makes all the sense in the world to happen.

Brock is one of my absolute favorites but even he can't save the disaster of a main event we're supposed to have. I know it's a bitter attitude but I'm truly not willing to even give the match a chance. Reigns is an even bigger waste of Lesnar than Big Show last year and for that, my resentment is on a stronger level than it ever was with CM Punk at any point when I was in hate mode with him. We were screwed out of Orton vs Brock and Bryan vs Brock just for this extremely predictable match that will be underwhelming no matter how you look at it. Even if we try to be rational, what exactly could Reigns do to believably put Brock away? A spear and 10 superman punches? Fuck outta here! I'm only watching to see the fans crap on it, this deserves the treatment of that Orton/Sheamus match the night after WM29.

Now back to the positive that is watching WWF in 2000. Second Raw of February has been fun so far. Kurt Angle challenged Jericho for No Way Out in a hilarious promo because he's such a natural goofball and Benoit/Rock for the first time ever is next. Should be good because these two were not capable of a bad match together. Poor Mark Henry having the hotel segment with Mae Young, though. You could be the worst wrestler ever and I'd say you deserve a title run if you'd actually put up with this storyline.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Only took him 11 years, but Henry got that title run!!! 

Almost done with JD 07. Up to the 2/3 falls match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Thankfully, Mizark is good too so it was double deserved. 

Haven't seen the 2/3 falls in years. Remember it being rather dull with a completely dead crowd. But it may still be the MOTN, lol. Khali/Cena is not the disaster it should be on paper but it's only okay in my book.

Benoit vs Rock was good as expected, but holy fuck did they botch the finish. Big Show (with finally a normal haircut) interfered when ref was distracted so it led to Benoit giving Rock a German in the ring with a bridge which was supposed to end the match. But it took the referee about 10 seconds before he got back in the ring to count the pin and both men looked stupid, more so The Rock, when they had look towards the ref and wait for him to get in and count it. Benoit had a hell of a strong neck to be able to hold that bridge for so long. I can barely do it for 3 seconds without feeling like my neck is gonna snap.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Guys, guys, fuckin' guys, it's finally happening. Takeover IV: SOLOMON FUCKING CROWE DEBUTS :mark:

Zayn/Owens, Neville/Balor, the chicks 4-way and CROWE. WM 31 = killed to death, you can BELEE DAT.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Judgment Day 2007*

Boy oh boy does this look utter shite on paper lol.


*Ric Flair Vs Carlito*

No thanks.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


HBK is being interviewed about being kicked in the head on Raw. Orton attacks him from behind. LOL.


*Vince McMahon, Shane McMahon & Umaga Vs Bobby Lashley - ECW Championship Match*

Vince McMahon is the ECW Champion. So he probably ranks up there as one of the best ECW Champions ever because the original ECW sucked 8*D. Ok, got the original ECW hate out of the way, maybe I can concentrate on this match... .

Fuck me, this lasted like, 2 minutes :lmao. Lashley runs through everyone and pins Shane.

Umaga attacks Lashley from behind after the match.

Vince announces that to become ECW Champion, Lashley needed to beat HIM.

Ok so... this was kinda pointless?

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*CM Punk Vs Elijah Burke*

Heard that this is HILARIOUSLY BAD. So fuck it, I'm gonna watch it. But expecting it to be horrible, so hopefully I'll laugh at it rather than get angry at it .

It's like they are both being controlled by 2 kids with Xbox controllers or something. The kids are just button mashing and hoping they will hit enough moves randomly to win :lmao.

:lmao at the commentators trying to figure out what the fuck happened when Punk ran at Burke and just kinda flopped over the ropes to the floor.

My god it just keeps going. It's like the Duracell Bunny. Except Duracell batteries are useful. This is just utterly pointless lol. They are just going through the motions until it's time to go home.

Fans are so bored they decide to chant for JBL.

why do they have so much time? WHY? Is this ever gonna end? Did they book it as an Iron Man match and forget to tell the fans?

This match was ONLY 16:50 according to Wiki? Bullshit. Was at least 54:20 imo.

Biggest waste of time EVER.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Randy Orton Vs Shawn Michaels*

Was just gonna ask if Orton had turned babyface for a week or something cos he got a massive pop... then I realised the PPV is in St Louis .

HBK apparently can't wrestle due to a concussion or whatever, so Orton demands to be declared the winner. HBK comes out anyway.

The referee begs Shawn to not compete, but he demands the bell to be rang. The bell rings, and Orton rings HBK's bell with a right hand to the head.

DDT~!

HBK kicks out!

A kick to the face and Orton can barely even lift HBK up for an RKO, so he just drops him instead. HBK is practically DEAD, and the referee seems to think he's still ok to continue :lmao.

Shawn does a good job selling the head injury, especially with the elbow drop from the top rope lol. Orton stuck him up there, but Shawn scratches Orton's eyes and manages to push him to the mat, then he just kinda falls off the ropes for an elbow drop rather than get any kind of height or distance.

HBK IS TUNING UP THE BAND~!

SWEET CHIN MUSI... HBK collapses .

The referee FINALLY calls for the bell.

Was HBK injured at this point btw? Just wondering why they did the whole concussion angle with Orton taking him out for months, because the company DEFINITELY needed him in 07 well before he returned, what with Undertaker, Edge and Cena all getting injured.

Match is short and stuff. Just there to advance the story. A story that wouldn't continue until months later when HBK returned .

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


Ooooo yey, a Khali promo!


*The Hardy Boys Vs Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch - World Tag Team Championship Match*

JBL talking about Cade & Murdoch: "I don't know what they're thinking but I disagree with it" :lmao.

Trevor Murdoch is rough, tough and in you MOUTH :lmao. Well done, Cole!

Weird match in the early going as they just go back and forth, exchanging hip tosses and arm drags etc. Unusual for Cade and Murdoch to do that. I could understand the Hardys doing that to try and gain the advantage, hoping to keep the pace going the way they want it, avoiding their opponents slowing shit down and turning it into a fight... but C&M are doing the exact same stuff lol.

They do a really short FIP, then a hot tag to Jeff, before Cade & Murdoch regroup on the outside for a few moments.

When they get back into the ring it becomes something of a "proper" match, with Jeff being isolated and mauled. This is where the match FINALLY picks up and gets me interested.

CANADIAN DESTROYER BY TREVOR FUCKING MURDOCH~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!

It's all downhill from here now. Not just this match. But the rest of wrestling. Forever. Trevor Murdoch hitting a Canadian Destroyer is wrestling's peak.

Hot tag!

Twist of Fate + Swanton Bomb!

Hardy Boys retain their titles.

Fun match, though it did start a little odd lol. CANADIAN DESTROYER BY TREVOR FUCKING MURDOCH~!

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


Cool video package for Edge, Vs Batista with Ozzy Osbourne "I don't wanna stop" playing over it. Loved that song. He did it live on a Smackdown around this time too, right?


*Edge Vs Batista - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

Ok, so is THIS is the match people point to as being the good one between the two? Because I've sat through their other 07 PPV matches so far and they've been trash. Yet I know people tend to think highly of ONE of them. Since the others are shit, this one has to be it, right? RIGHT?

It better fucking be cos I'm sick of watching them have wank matches together. Not wanking matches, that would be disturbing as fuck. Wank as in shit. Trash. Rubbish. Awful. Terrible. Useless. Boring. Dull.

Like how they try to make it look like a big epic match with the referee explaining the rules as if it was a big boxing match. Wrestling needs more of that tbh. Anything to try and give matches a big fight feel.

oooooowwwww fuck fuck fuck. Currently drinking one of those hot blackcurrent drinks with stuff in it to help with cold and flu. Drank half of it fine. Then suddenly my last mouthful of it was like 10x hotter than the rest of the drink and I ended up spitting it out into my hands. Now my hands feel like they are on fire :lmao. Ah crap, some dribbled down onto my favourite Iron Man t-shirt . Hope it comes out in the wash...

Edge works over Batist'a injured leg.

Batista makes a comeback.

Batista's leg hurts after hitting some offence.

Edge rolls up Batista for the win.

This felt more like a Superstars match tbh.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Chris Benoit Vs MVP - 2 out of 3 Falls United States Championship Match*

Don't think I've seen this match since it aired in 07. Seen their WM match a little more recently (a couple of years ago lol), and it was... ok. Nothing special. Hoping to find something fun about this match at the very least.

:lmao seriously? They are working the match around leg work? Right after Batista/Edge JUST DID IT THE MATCH BEFORE? 

First fall was... just there. Felt like the Batista/Edge match tbh lol. Just a pile of nothingness that could have been on Superstars and not felt out of place.

Finish to the fall was... ok. Benoit had MVP up for an electric chair, but his leg gave out on him and MVP countered into the Playmaker for the win.

Second fall starts and... Benoit is dominated as if HE won the first fall lol.

"Any time you stick any limb near Benoit he grabs it" :lmao.

"this is boring" chant :lmao.

Best part of the second fall is one of the little battles they have when Benoit tries to apply the Crossface. And then MVP wins anyway. 2 straight falls. I'd say "way to bury Benoit" but he would do a better job himself later in the year :side:.

Has Benoit EVER had a good 2/3 falls match that wasn't against Angle? This sucks, and the Jericho one from SS 00 sucks too.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*John Cena Vs The Great Khali - WWE Championship Match*

Khali has a NINE INCH size advantage over Cena 8*D.

Genuinely enjoyed their... ONS match or whenever it was after this, and so far this one is shaping up to be just as fun. Khali is powering Cena around like he's nothing, and Cena is selling every shot like a bullet to the chest.

And then the fun stops as Khali applies that god damn motherfucking piece of shit nerve grip hold. HOW MANY FECKING TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU TO NOT USE THAT BASTARDING HOLD? STOP. IT. NOW.

Cena fights back and slowly makes a comeback, then applies the STFU and makes Khali TAP OUT!!! But Khali's foot was clearly under the ropes. Even TOUCHED the ropes at one point. Oh well.

This was ok, but didn't seem to get going compared to their next match.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 2*​


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Reigns/Lesnar & HHH/Sting are a double dose of DO.NOT.WANT.

Reigns hasn't had an entertaining singles match yet and Lesnar's been in duds before.
Sting's been putting on dud matches for years in TNA, and the idea of HHH carrying the match leaves me laughing my a** off.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HBK had an injured shoulder or knee or something around that time which is why Orton beat the fuck out of him. He had been working through it for about a year which is why they had him in DX tag matches all year. He still got several good matches out of that period even working injured.

lol @ NO'ing Flair/Carlito. I remember when the PPV was next in line a year and a half ago and I was so bored of 2007 that I wanted to rush through everything to say "I've done watching it" and this was first up at JD, which I skipped through because who watches this borefest, anyways? Mid 2007 might beat 2012 and post WM 2014-present until now in terms of being dull and uneventful (not so much outside of TV because one had Benoit, the other has the Rumble disaster).

As for the good Batista/Edge match, I enjoyed the other two just fine but JD is the boring one. I also NO'd Burke/Punk back then because there was no way I would sit through 16 minutes of a match with two guys who's chemistry had a 100% failure track record. Might watch it at some point just to see what's so bad about it beyond the obvious.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Thank fuck I only have 3 more PPV's to get through in 07, and all of them have at least one awesome match for me to look forward to. Cyber Sunday is up next. DAT BATISTA VS TAKER MATCH :mark:.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The good Edge/Batista is Vengeance, as in the one you gave a near DUD you asshole :side:

Oh my God that Judgment Day PPV :lmao

Well, congratulate yourself, Cal - you managed to get through the shitty option. Now go for Cyber Sunday, then Survivor Series and then Backlash


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Doing Cyber Sunday, then Backlash and finishing with Survivor Series.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

ATF said:


> Guys, guys, fuckin' guys, it's finally happening. Takeover IV: SOLOMON FUCKING CROWE DEBUTS :mark:


So, we're apparently getting


Spoiler: duh



Zayn/Steen


 and THAT? 












I want to fill this thread up with Mocho Cota gifs now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

NXT once again going to upstage WWE lol.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

ATF said:


> Guys, guys, fuckin' guys, it's finally happening. Takeover IV: SOLOMON FUCKING CROWE DEBUTS :mark:


They grabbed him up when he was the best wrestler in the world and it takes them nearly two years for them to even friggin' put him on TV. Kind of worried about the gimmick he might have, but NXT at least seems to want most of everybody be unique.


Then he'll get called up to the main roster in 2019 and be re-gimmicked as a firefighter.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

It's a shame that ATF is spoiling everything from NXT.  Cause the way they "presented" that we'd be seeing Crowe soon was totally out-of-nowhere. I imagine lots of folks didn't even notice.

Total 360, LIVE Smackdown tonight fellas! Bryan vs. Kane Casket match and the rumor mill is sayin a certain superstar could FINALLY return to TV tonight...


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

ATF said:


> Guys, guys, fuckin' guys, it's finally happening. Takeover IV: SOLOMON FUCKING CROWE DEBUTS :mark:
> 
> Zayn/Owens, Neville/Balor, the chicks 4-way and CROWE. WM 31 = killed to death, you can BELEE DAT.


Disappointing that Balor wins next week tbh considering I've been less impressed with him than Itami and the latter guy came first.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> It's a shame that ATF is spoiling everything from NXT.  Cause the way they "presented" that we'd be seeing Crowe soon was totally out-of-nowhere. I imagine lots of folks didn't even notice.
> 
> Total 360, LIVE Smackdown tonight fellas! Bryan vs. Kane Casket match *and the rumor mill is sayin a certain superstar could FINALLY return to TV tonight...*


FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Bo Dallas return!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Willing to take a match request if i have it, and it's not online.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Arn Anderson, Rick rude and Steve Austin vs Dustin Rhodes, Barry Windham and Ricky Steamboat (4/4/92)


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well, Smackdown unfortunately sucked tonight. No need to watch anything outside of Triple H's opening promo. Big lack of in-ring action outside of the opener and main event (which wasn't anything special tbh). Let's hope to god the Reigns/Show and Bryan/Kane feuds are finally OVER.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Solid casket match. Nothing ideally noteworthy to scope out, but at least it proved to trump everything from Sunday's debacle. It must be 2013 again.


----------



## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

@ATF @Yeah1993 @Rah @Hayley Seydoux

Crowe (Callihan) was injured for a couple of months which halted his "progress" apparently, in case you were unaware.

If he had signed about nine months later he would have debuted within two months and had 15 minute matches every fortnight.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Putting your current top two babyfaces (Bryan, Reigns) (WELL BOOKING WISE, I'm not suggesting Reigns is the second most over face) in feuds against The Big Show and Kane in 2015 is fucking ludicrous.

We've seen enough of Reigns vs Big Show. The crowd hates both guys.

We've seen enough of Bryan-Kane.

Here in Canada during commercials they air live event adds and they are advertising this house show in February that will be headlined by Bryan vs Kane and Kane cuts a promo backstage where he says he will beat up Bryan because it's BEST FOR BUSINESS.

Well Golly Gee....I didn't want to pay to see Kane ever in my life, and in 2015 you're telling me I could see CORPORATE Kane wrestle Daniel Bryan! Just take my money, the tv matches aren't enough!!!!!


It's clear the WWE is just trying to make Show-Kane relevant again which is nice for those guys but for everybody else it's just torture.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I liked that casket match. Reminded me of a fun house show bout you would see in 1996. Too bad the rest of the show was sorry. And that "controversy". Ugh. How long will the Axel squash be? My bets are on two minutes.

Thanks Zep in advance for looking into my request. It's a match from an episode of WCW Pro if that helps at all.

EDIT: Sgt. Slaughter had a very bad interview about the Royal Rumble today.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

reigns/show - ***** 

OMG WHAT A BATTLE, SUCH GOOD MUCH MATCH


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Arn Anderson, Rick rude and Steve Austin vs Dustin Rhodes, Barry Windham and Ricky Steamboat (4/4/92)


*Rick Rude, Steve Austin & Arn Anderson vs. Barry Windham, Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Steamboat (WCW Pro 04.04.1992)*

x2fzh07


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Later tonight, I'm returning to my mini-Generico/Steen project. Already watched a great collection of badassness, and I'm keeping it running 'till February 11th.

Now, Generico/Danielson Giant Sized Annual, which I finally got a link for, will be my first watch (let's see if, somehow, it manages to top the CLASSIC they had in Germany). Then, I'm watching Steen's battle with Tyler Black at Salvation. Followed by Generico/Callihan from EVOLVE 13, and finally (for now), if someone would PLEASE link me both of those, the Steen/McGuinness matches from Injustice and Northern Navigation. If I can't get to those, it'll be Steen/Rhino DFX 2012 instead.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Oxitron said:


> @ATF @Yeah1993 @Rah @Hayley Seydoux
> 
> Crowe (Callihan) was injured for a couple of months which halted his "progress" apparently, in case you were unaware.
> 
> If he had signed about nine months later he would have debuted within two months and had 15 minute matches every fortnight.


The problem is that he's been around for a while. He's been working on NXT live events since August/September 2013 and only got injured an entire year later (?). I understand that he needs a strong enough gimmick to debut on but that wait worries me that there isn't anything for him or there's teething problems with this hacker angle. I equally understand that there's only so much space on a roster but the greed in me wishes they had a specific plan for him from the moment of his signing so his talent wasn't left unwatched. If it's truly for his benefit, fine, but why are they so quick to throw Devitt and Kenta to NXT and have some semblance of a plan ready for them? Bigger names, perhaps, but they're far from wrestling ready.

I'm going back and watching all his Indy stuff in the mean time, which is fine and all, but there's such promise in the roster WWE has and we're left with crud. Keeping It Stylish got a bit of flak in the chatbox last night for saying Smackdown should be a "workrate" show, but Main Event/Superstars has usually been a match for talents to stretch their legs. They have Cesaro, Zayn, Bryan, Sheamus, Henry, Titus, Goldust, Ambrose, Callihan, Harper right there and yet we have to watch a fucking bunny commit sexually inappropriate acts. A lot of those talents are dead in the water, and this win-trading malarkey isn't helping their careers, especially when it's in pointless match-ups. I'm not asking for a show dedicated to creating classic matches as a part of the main shows, but letting talents do what they're good at will surely spice up their midcard acts. 

The worst part of it all is that we're never likely to get Callihan/Regal. That hurts.


----------



## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

So this is where everyone discusses NXT now that NXT has been overpopulated with those... _new fans_? :jay



Rah said:


> The problem is that he's been around for a while. He's been working on NXT live events since August/September 2013 and only got injured an entire year later (?). I understand that he needs a strong enough gimmick to debut on but that wait worries me that there isn't anything for him or there's teething problems with this hacker angle. I equally understand that there's only so much space on a roster but the greed in me wishes they had a specific plan for him from the moment of his signing so his talent wasn't left unwatched. If it's truly for his benefit, fine, but why are they so quick to throw Devitt and Kenta to NXT and have some semblance of a plan ready for them? Bigger names, perhaps, but they're far from wrestling ready.
> 
> I'm going back and watching all his Indy stuff in the mean time, which is fine and all, but there's such promise in the roster WWE has and we're left with crud. Keeping It Stylish got a bit of flak in the chatbox last night for saying Smackdown should be a "workrate" show, but Main Event/Superstars has usually been a match for talents to stretch their legs. They have Cesaro, Zayn, Bryan, Sheamus, Henry, Titus, Goldust, Ambrose, Callihan, Harper right there and yet we have to watch a fucking bunny commit sexually inappropriate acts. A lot of those talents are dead in the water, and this win-trading malarkey isn't helping their careers, especially when it's in pointless match-ups. I'm not asking for a show dedicated to creating classic matches as a part of the main shows, but letting talents do what they're good at will surely spice up their midcard acts.
> 
> The worst part of it all is that we're never likely to get Callihan/Regal. That hurts.


Yea god knows why he has been out for so long bar the injury. I think it's just bad timing for him in all honesty. Maybe his name didn't reverberate as much as the other five everyone knows, so he had to fall back on a gimmick to get a sure-fire placement on the show, but maybe he just signed too early, before the rest of the big names from the indies and Japan coming in and getting that favouritism treatment no one can logically deny.

I still think if he signed a year or so later he'd be on the screen right now. :shrug

I know nothing about Crowe though, I don't claim to, but I do know who he is and know his name was pretty big in the indies. Whether or not it would've been big enough to pass through most of the developmental system, I don't know. It's all speculation.

But, if his name _isn't_ big enough for WWE officials to treat him like they do the BIG FIVE, I'd personally hope, for him, that he doesn't debut on NXT TV any time soon. If guys like Enzo & Cass can't get a regular spot on TV every fortnight because the BIG FIVE are too "important" I don't think anyone should debut.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rah said:


> The worst part of it all is that we're never likely to get Callihan/Regal. That hurts.


I would say there is a chance for that to happen. If there is a God, Callihan will be up there w/Steen as THE heel of NXT, and Regal, as the GM, will be so pissed off that he'll take him on himself. Writes itself. Hell, speaking of that, I'd be deadly surprised if we don't AT LEAST get Regal/Steen somewhere down the line.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Just have Crowe hack all NXT website announcements or tweets or Regal's laptop- anything and set up a feud :side:


In all honesty, I'm pretty excited for Crowe's debut. Have a feeling the Big Five won't all be on NXT after a few months so there will be a good deal of time they can give Crowe. Neville is surely coming up soon, Zayn will follow him after 2-3 months at most I reckon.

Don't see Balor spending a long time in developmental either.


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

Crowe should make himself beat Flair's record on the website IMO. Would be genius.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I honestly think Balor and Itami need to be in NXT for a good while. They'll need to adjust to the WWE style moreso than most others and Itami's moveset is SO damn similar to Punk and Bryan, idk how he's really gonna get over in the big leagues. Especially since he's a really small guy who doesn't have much charisma. Balor has seemed to do nothing but double stomps thus far.  Tyler Breeze needs to get more attention than both of them, honestly. He's done so well and hasn't been rewarded with much.


----------



## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

RAVEN said:


> Just have Crowe hack all NXT website announcements or tweets or Regal's laptop- anything and set up a feud :side:


I'd be all for that but that'd never happen. Kurt Angle and his antics has ruined the possibility of a 'hacker' being possible. :lol

Unless Crowe states himself as the guy who originally hacked Angle's twitter...




> In all honesty, I'm pretty excited for Crowe's debut. Have a feeling the Big Five won't all be on NXT after a few months so there will be a good deal of time they can give Crowe. Neville is surely coming up soon, Zayn will follow him after 2-3 months at most I reckon.
> 
> Don't see Balor spending a long time in developmental either.


The BIG FIVE will become the BIG FOUR in the coming few months I think. The only one of the BIG FIVE that should stay on NXT is Itami because he's clearly having a bit of trouble with working a safer style as identified by that awful finish again the other week.

I expect Crowe to debut against Kidd who comes out at the next special bitching and moaning. All because it was Kidd's entrance that he interrupted and Kidd clearly has nothing else to do at the moment, and deserves a "proper" send off from NXT.


Any hope of Balor getting a decent enough push on the main roster for a good showing with his entrance at WM was ruined by no NXT talent going to the rumble.

Right now I wouldn't be against any of the BIG FIVE getting hotshotted to the main roster because it clears up 10+ minutes a month for other talent (that actually need televising) to go on the show.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Balor has done WAAAYYY more than double foot stomps, Corey  Honestly, his style is a blend of Punk/Bryan indeed, but that's exactly why I feel he already HAS clicked w/the so-called "WWE style". To me, I don't feel he's awkward at all in there. Plus, he has the marketing force of a STAR (he has DA LOOK, the badass aura and the ability to see w/DA BODYPAINT), and w/a tweak (a big one, admitedly) in his mic skills, he'll be the total package honestly.

Itami does need to improve, though. A lot. And I agree that Breeze needs WAY more attention. For someone I thought at first to be nothing more than Fashion Fandango, Breeze is sure as hell an awesome worker.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Callihan wasn't the BIGGEST indy guy, but the only reason for that is time. He might be the biggest star on the indies right now if he was still working it. He's got a style that'd absolutely fit WWE TV. Complete with signature spots and everything. I just fear he won't even be able to use it because of a gimmick.

Callihan/Regal. Ow. Gut punch.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I've been meaning to watch those Finlay/Callihan matches everyone raves about.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I do too, which is odd considering that I watched most of Sami's big indie matches. I have no clue why I delayed watching EVOLVE.

Which means hopefully someone will rep me the links to their two matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just watch their first match. No point suffering with the others tbh lol.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cal can get fucked the second match rocks. Not sure I watched the third. I'd give links but the account I uploaded them on got shitcanned. I should have used dailymotion.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Balor gets canned as only "doing double stomps" meanwhile all KENTA does are kicks?

Zayn vs Neville for the Championship on TV was good. Not great, but good. Could have been great had it not spent that portion just trading big moves and nearfalls for a few minutes. They've done that crap in matches prior and it isn't anything good, especially for what those two are capable of. More of a bother w/the way the original 5 minutes of the match were worked prior to the break. The Zayn faking the injury callback was nice, as were the constant counters, ol tit for tat back & forth narrative that works & tied the ending up nicely. Just wished they could have nixed out that middle portion that was rehashed. Still good though. It's like the most negative I could be on a Zayn match so far is this. _(lies; the first match vs Neville in 2013 was awful)_ Still a super nifty track record. That's always nice.

I don't know what else there is to say in regards to Callihan. Just debut him already to have him on there. Work his gimmick into things after he is around. No harm in working matches while you formulate things. At least let what he's doing in dark matches/house shows be on TV. It'll be minor substance as he continues to move along in developmental. Being a ghost for this long isn't something I understand. _(taking away any injuries that have been around, etc)_


----------



## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

NXT is clouded in hypocrisy right now Cody. Half the guys are being dismissed for doing the same thing the other half do when that half gets flak for it. Blake & Murphy "needing a gimmick" is some of the most shite I see right now.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

I'm honestly skiddish about anyone leaving NXT for the main roster right now. Sami still needs more punch for me, Itami is Japanese, Nevile is English, and Bálor is Irish. I think the card is well set at the moment - Women's title picture is strong, men's title picture is even stronger, and though I'm not yet sold on Corbin, he's shown improvement (and has a super-sweet finish, ha). the tag titles are in flux for me, but overall, a very solid showing of talent. 

Callihan, I would think, would be where Corbin or maybe Steen are: Either as a stand-alone attraction or just fucking shit up in the ME. 

Itami has been _good_ but there's so much fpalm-ing going on that's it's hard to tell exactly. Wtf with the Mortal Kombat get-up? Even if he needed to be nicer in physicality, doing so I think has taken away from his approach, aesthetically. Not quite intense - lacking an anger which came off as disrespectful - his cocky swagger has sort of been muted in the wake of having to "take it easy" on guys in the ring. I'd like to see that change in his demeanor, and maybe bring in the strong-style for his siggies. 

Devitt just stinks of money - his time should be short in NXT. He's adjusted very well, and outside of mic-work (something everyone could use more time honing), I don't really see what he has to prove in NXT.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm trying to figure out when everyone became such a big Sami Callihan fan. Obviously I already know Cody and Yeah and one or two others have been fans for a while but when did everyone else start thinking so highly of this guy? I remember a few years back when Callihan was one of the most disliked dudes on the indies. I'll tell you straight up when I saw him for the first time I thought he looked stupid as shit and would never make it anywhere with that gimmick. When he and Moxley got signed, I was definitely surprised. Obviously it's worked out but there were so many other dudes I expected to go before them.

I think some of you folks took the Balor and double stomps thing a little too seriously. That was a joke. I went like 5 years without watching KENTA wrestle and was never really that big into Devitt, so there's other guys in NXT I'm more excited about. I'll never understand why they waited so long to sign KENTA, by the way.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I know a lot of people became sold Callihan following his series with Younger in PWG and his Ironman match with Adam Cole. 

Heh, thinking about it, in a few years we could see Callihan and Drake in a Wrestlemania ring together.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I'm trying to figure out when everyone became such a big Sami Callihan fan. Obviously I already know Cody and Yeah and one or two others have been fans for a while but when did everyone else start thinking so highly of this guy? I remember a few years back when Callihan was one of the most disliked dudes on the indies. I'll tell you straight up when I saw him for the first time I thought he looked stupid as shit and would never make it anywhere with that gimmick. When he and Moxley got signed, I was definitely surprised. Obviously it's worked out but there were so many other dudes I expected to go before them.


I honestly get why some people are a little off-put by Callihan's mannerisms and stuff. Sounds like they think that he looks like a try-hard or something with stupid ass faces. I always just saw him as a guy acting like a crazy 80s gimmick (I've likened him to the Missing Link a couple times) and almost always thought it was charming and awesome. I don't think he takes himself that seriously. It's hard to explain but I never thought he was forcing it, though I get why someone might look at it that way.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Guerrilla Warfare w/Drake is what sold me on Callihan first hand. And since then, well, I've been enjoying the fuck out of his work. Agreed w/Yeah in that I don't think at all that he looks like he's forcing his mannerisms. Pretty sure the people who do that are the same that are off-put by Ambrose's faces and mannerisms, which are part of what makes him great in the first place (when he's not being wasted in a directionless limbo in the midcard, like right now).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hearing Callihan on commentary or a shoot interview would tell you just how much he takes himself seriously. He has fun out there doing his thing. Similar to some comments made by Ambrose. They know wrestling can kind of be silly when you look at it from the viewpoint of someone who isn't a fan. They embrace the silliness of it & transcend. It's remarkable. And basically what I love about the sport as a whole.


----------



## GoDegree (Jan 11, 2015)

Cena/Lesnar/Rollins (Royal Rumble) - ****1/2

amazing match. great spots. all 3 men worked their asses off and imo it was a pretty smartly booked match. Made Lesnar look like a fucking beast and I loved how Cena and Rollins worked together for a small amount of the match to take Lesnar out. Phoenix Splash or whatever was really cool but he didn't really land it. Overall great match......


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

STEENERICO STUFF:



Spoiler: Before new entries



Kevin Steen vs. El Generico, PWG Steen Wolf 2011 - ****3/4
El Generico vs. Bryan Danielson, PWG European Vacation II: Germany - ****1/2
Kevin Steen vs. Davey Richards, ROH Best In The World 2012 - ****1/4
El Generico vs. Kota Ibushi, DDT 5/4/2012 - ****
Kevin Steen vs. Shinsuke Nakamura, ROH/NJPW War Of The Worlds 2014 - ***3/4
Sami Zayn vs. Titus O'Neil, WWE NXT 10/30/2014 - ***1/2
Kevin Steen vs. Davey Richards, ROH Border Wars 2012 - ***1/2
Sami Zayn vs. Tyler Breeze, WWE NXT 11/6/2014 - ***1/4
Sami Zayn vs. Adrian Neville, WWE Main Event 5/20/2014 (dark match) - ***1/4



- There was a lot of hype behind Generico/Danielson Giant Sized Annual. It is the match of the pair that is rallied up the most from all I've seen, over even the classic they had in Germany. But then again, the Angle/Benoit pair's most well-known match is Royal Rumble, which, while I do like, is nowhere near their actual best (Backlash '01). So, did THIS live up to my expectations? Well... I'm not quite sure. Of course the match was totally great, but... the Germany match had more heart to it for my liking. This one was more back-and-forth, it was more evened out and... I was not into it quite as much. That being said, this was still awesome! A terrific crescendo of intensity that started in fury right off the bat, w/a pissed off Generico, he who had just won the Tag Titles and was now forced to defend the PWG World Title, coming off strong. Lots of small touches like Generico removing Danielson's bandage (only to not work it... or at least as much as I would've hoped), the constant dickhead slapping between each other and the rabid split crowd were the cherry on top of a super intense, back-and-forth (in the good side) war w/some terrific counters along the way. The ending was well done too, w/Generico's heart telling him not to give up to the Cattle Mutilation, but eventually, it was just too much. Awesome match, no doubt. Better than Germany tho? Nah.

- Just for the lulz, I rewatched Steen/Owens' debut in NXT, at R-Evolution. Needless to say that a squash is very few times THAT perfect. Yes, maybe Parker could've done w/a little less offense than what he got, but regardless, this was handled flawlessly. It may have a somewhat low rating in STARZ~, but in terms of pure fun, this match deserves a million of them for all I care.

- Now we're talking serious when we're pitting Kevin Steen against the man who loves to ROLL-IN, Tyler Black. Sorry, had to pull a Matt Striker there . Two of the best in the world, how good could this be? Well, near perfect, that's how. This was absolutely BRUTAL. Asides from Steen Wolf, I'm not sure if I'll ever see Steen have a better performance than this. This was up there w/Brock Lesnar's best. Up there w/maybe Mick Foley's best. Possibly up there w/even Undertaker's best. It was just... :clap. He was flawless. Arrogant, cocky, always w/a no fucks given attitude, his antics were amazing. From mockingly not letting go of the Code Of Honor handshake, to constant trash talking that would let Mark Henry more than proud, to constantly brutalizing Black's wound (even taking a handful of his blood and spreading in his face in a Brock way, to which the crowd fittingly chanted "You sick fuck")... Goddamn. And Tyler Black? Not quite as flawless as Steen, but he was otherwordly too. Always ralling up the crowd, always trying to bring the fight to Steen w/some added HATE~, selling the effects of the wound to perfection... and speaking of which, his bladejob left Eddie Guerrero alas JD 2004 smiling. Not as brutal as THAT, obviously, but not too far from it. Steen's was nasty too, btw. Favorite moment in the match is quite possibly the very ending: Black locking the Sharpshooter on Steen and actually beating him w/it. I'm a downright SUCKER for finisher thefts, and this one, w/its added touch of karma against Steen's arrogant persona, was great. The only complaint I have w/this match was one of those "Superplex followed by immediately getting up only for the other guy to no sell and counter" spots somewhere in the middle. That was Davey Richards shit for my liking. That nitpick aside though, this was one for the fucking ages. It was vicious, it was incredibly well performed, it had some pretty cool SPOTZ~, it had some epic nearfalls at the end, it was just... French kiss worthy.



> Kevin Steen vs. El Generico, PWG Steen Wolf 2011 - ****3/4
> *Kevin Steen vs. Tyler Black, ROH Salvation 2010 - ****3/4*
> El Generico vs. Bryan Danielson, PWG European Vacation II: Germany - ****1/2
> Kevin Steen vs. Davey Richards, ROH Best In The World 2012 - ****1/4
> ...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'll check out that Steen/Black match later, thanks. I have Steens' Descent Into Madness DVD, so ill dig it out.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You do nothing but favors for yourself if you do that Zep, you're welcome 

By the way, do you have Steen's Ascension To The Top DVD? Cause I'm struggling to find his Nigel matches and I know that set has them.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Where can I watch that Steen/Black match? :jose


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Spoiler: Steen/Black link



http://sethrollins-online.net/videos/displayimage.php?pid=66


(Y)


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

How about Bryan v Kane in a last man standing match at Mania and oh, I got a good one....Mania kicks off with Reigns v Show in a tables match?!?!?!?! :vince3


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> You do nothing but favors for yourself if you do that Zep, you're welcome
> 
> By the way, do you have Steen's Ascension To The Top DVD? Cause I'm struggling to find his Nigel matches and I know that set has them.


Yes I do. I'll try and upload one tomorrow and drop you a PM. If there is one you need the most?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'd like to see both, but the one I want the most is obv. Northern Navigation. But if you could upload that + Injustice, that'd be awesome


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

ATF said:


> STEENERICO STUFF:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Did you by chance see the matches before Bryan/Generico from Giant Size Annual #4 ? I feel like the whole thing needs to be seen to really appreciate how great that match is. Bryan has this brutal war with Necro Butcher then Steen and Generico have a great match for the tag titles and then Bryan and Generico have their amazing match. I look at it as just a stream of things where the sum of the whole is greater than each of the individual parts. 

Their match from Germany might be the better though, I came across that on some random wXw Danielson compilation that I have and was so happy when they had the quality of match that I thought they could have.

I've really been appreciating Danielson heel matches recently because he gets to play the dominant, badass heel and that's a role that I don't really ever see him playing while he's in the WWE.


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

Flux said:


> Heh, thinking about it, in a few years we could see Callihan and Drake in a Wrestlemania ring together.


I doubt that Drake will ever get to wrestle/Callihan will ever get a serious push under Vince.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> I'd like to see both, but the one I want the most is obv. Northern Navigation. But if you could upload that + Injustice, that'd be awesome


Might be still available via Highspots. That's where I got it. P. cheap too. Worth it for how strong that event is. The punishment Steen's back takes vs Nigel is absurd.



obby said:


> I doubt that Drake will ever get to wrestle/Callihan will ever get a serious push under Vince.


Believe he implied Drake as the ref to be in the ring at a WM.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ok I'll now go back to my Steenerico project. Despite the fact that I can't quite watch three of my intended stuff just yet (Nigel @ Injustice and NN, Rhino @ DBD X, all for Steen), but I'll improvise 



TaylorFitz said:


> Did you by chance see the matches before Bryan/Generico from Giant Size Annual #4 ? I feel like the whole thing needs to be seen to really appreciate how great that match is. Bryan has this brutal war with Necro Butcher then Steen and Generico have a great match for the tag titles and then Bryan and Generico have their amazing match. I look at it as just a stream of things where the sum of the whole is greater than each of the individual parts.
> 
> Their match from Germany might be the better though, I came across that on some random wXw Danielson compilation that I have and was so happy when they had the quality of match that I thought they could have.
> 
> I've really been appreciating Danielson heel matches recently because he gets to play the dominant, badass heel and that's a role that I don't really ever see him playing while he's in the WWE.


Is the tag match vs the Young Bucks? If so, there's a good chance that 1) I did watch, and 2) loved the fuck out of it. Haven't seen the Necro Butcher fight tho. But I DID put into account the exhaustion/awe factor of seeing them wrestle two potentially awesome matches before and then going right into this one, but I still wasn't AS impressed w/the match as most people seem to.

But honestly, their Germany match might be the one to blame for that. Because I had already seen the pair wrestle a match w/an integral and relatable story behind it that they played to perfection, so seeing a more back-and-forthy match was a little of a letdown for my books. Still a terrific back-and-forth, obviously, but I'm just more into what I had already seen from them.



Hayley Seydoux said:


> Might be still available via Highspots. That's where I got it. P. cheap too. Worth it for how strong that event is. The punishment Steen's back takes vs Nigel is absurd.


Except I, unfortunely, cannot be assed to actually pay for it :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't deny what is worth the greenbacks. Especially from something that is out of print.

Generico & Steen win the tag straps from Roderick Strong & PAC on Giant Sized Annual #4 . The whole scenario TF mentions really does sell the entire sequence of events incredibly well. More than the matches on their own do.

Danielson vs Necro is must-see territory. As anyone would figure.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

But I don't deny it because I want to, I deny it simply because I actually CAN'T buy it (and does Highspots even sell in Portugal?) 

Oh yeah, now I do remember the Tag. Strong carries out PAC himself at the end of the match, right? Yup, awesome stuff that was. Now interested in checking out that Danielson/Butcher match, but...

STEEN/FINLAY. FUCK YO COMPROMISES.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not sure. I imagine they would ship internationally.

BOLA 2011 is such a powerhouse that I don't even remember Finlay vs Steen as one of the stronger matches on the night. I could do w/seeing it again (why don't I even own that show? It's like the ultimate for Generico. Gah.) but w/Generico vs Steen out there the rest all just happens to be nice to stand next to it. Still think it is awesome PWG got to book Finlay during that final tour of his. And of Steen of all people. Better than what ROH got out of him. That's for sure.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

BOLA 2011 does sound fucking awesome on paper, and I'm definitely gonna try to seek out Generico/Willie from the very same show too for this project, as well as the obvious Generico/Steen (but I'm keeping every Generico/Steen except Steen Wolf which I've seen already to the very Wednesday that Takeover IV takes place), but the next Generico stuff I'm watching is against Sami Callihan @ EVOLVE 13 iirc, and then followed by a Samuray Del Sol clash :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Generico vs Steen from BOLA is their best match out of the bunch.

Generico vs Callihan I is another one that's a bit more fuzzy than I prefer. But their 2/3 Falls match later that year is supreme. Proof that you can have a standout match in front of a silent crowd. That aspect doesn't even matter when you watch. Always was curious why EVOLVE drew such a dire audience that night. It looked like only 13 people bought tickets.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Better than the Steen Wolf Ladder match? Better than Final Battle 2010? DON'T U HYPE ME TOO MUCH. I'M CONTAINING MYSELF UNTIL WEDNESDAY FROM NEXT WEEK.

Btw, just out of curiosity, do you agree w/me in that Steen/Black Salvation is fucking near-perfect, or... is it one less in my club?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> I'd like to see both, but the one I want the most is obv. Northern Navigation. But if you could upload that + Injustice, that'd be awesome


PM Sent.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Thank you so Goddamn much, Zep 

But in the meantime:

*STEENERICO, BITCHES*​


Spoiler: Before new entries



Kevin Steen vs. El Generico, PWG Steen Wolf 2011 - ****3/4
Kevin Steen vs. Tyler Black, ROH Salvation 2010 - ****3/4
El Generico vs. Bryan Danielson, PWG European Vacation II: Germany - ****1/2
Kevin Steen vs. Davey Richards, ROH Best In The World 2012 - ****1/4
El Generico vs. Bryan Danielson, PWG Giant Sized Annual #4 - ****1/4
El Generico vs. Kota Ibushi, DDT 5/4/2012 - ****
Kevin Steen vs. Shinsuke Nakamura, ROH/NJPW War Of The Worlds 2014 - ***3/4
Sami Zayn vs. Titus O'Neil, WWE NXT 10/30/2014 - ***1/2
Kevin Steen vs. Davey Richards, ROH Border Wars 2012 - ***1/2
Sami Zayn vs. Tyler Breeze, WWE NXT 11/6/2014 - ***1/4
Sami Zayn vs. Adrian Neville, WWE Main Event 5/20/2014 (dark match) - ***1/4
Kevin Owens vs. CJ Parker, WWE NXT Takeover: R-Evolution - **1/2


 - Today's first watch was a match I was pretty much sure I was gonna like - Steen vs. Finlay. How awesome does that sound? And isn't it gratifying when a dream match goes pretty much the way you pictured it in your head it would go? Because that's what's happened here. This was a clinic, as clinic as you're ever gonna find. I wouldn't say it's up there w/the Benoit/Finlay's of the world, but it's certainly not miles away either. For what I believe was a first time ever, Steen and Finlay's chemistry felt they had wrestled each other 1000 times before. The match had everything you'd picture in a match between them - total grittiness, badass antics, realistic antics, a masterclass of character work, an excellent limb workover (by Steen) and selling (of Finlay's leg/knee), a megalist of small touches that make a good match great (my favorite one being Steen hooking up Finlay's non-injured leg for a pin, so Finlay would have to apply pressure on his bad one to kick out... that one gave me a cerebral orgasm), etc.. And the match also had a very hot crowd, and a joyful sense of humor, mostly Steen-driven, that helped keep it w/a heart that's not... 'bleak' of sorts. This was really, really fun, really, really smart, and really, really, REALLY good.

- Once again, another intended watch of mine (Generico/Callihan @ EVOLVE 13) was unavaliable. I'm starting to get really pissed off at that. And NO, I'm not paying for the shows :side:. Especially when I'm only there to watch one match. So, I decided to just move on. I said that, after Callihan, I'd watch Generico/Del Sol for sure. My most desired intention was watch their EVOLVE 17 match, but I'd figure I couldn't find that either so I went for their Super Indy 10 match instead. So I did, and I had hopes for it being a great sprint, since it was under 10 minutes. Turns out... meh. It wasn't a bad match by any means, it was just... kinda awkward, and bland. It was weird seeing Generico have the size advantage and play big bully(ish) heel to Samuray's little underdog, but he didn't do a bad job. And the overall layout of the match was fine. Problem is that there was a fair number of botches/awkward moments, neither men's work was exactly memorable, and the crowd, to add insult to injury, didn't really give a shit (which to me is a problem since it always brings down the excitement I may have for a certain match). Again, the layout was good, and neither men did a BAD job in their respective roles. But the match was WAY too awkward (dare I even say sloppy) and unmemorable for me to even consider it a good match, let alone anything less of a HUGE disappointment.

- Finally, I went on the hunt for another match featuring Steen against a 'veteran' of sorts, this time against Matt Hardy. God, Matt Hardy's run in ROH, what the crazy fuck :lol This one was a No DQ match (as requested by Steen right before the bell rung and made official by Nigel), which immediately gave me good hope for the match. The last time I saw a No DQ match w/Steen in it, he blew it out of the park. Against DAVEY RICHARDS. Ironically enough, that happened at Best In The World 2012. This was BITW 2013 . So, was this any good? Well, yeah, it was good. It started off on fire w/Matt and Steen trading some nice punches (Matt Hardy's punches are the stuff of dreams), and some nice antics. Later down, it evolved more and more into your average No DQ/Street Fight/whatever the fuck is it named match, only without much of stupid sheanigans w/it. Hardy was pretty much WASTED halfway through, and I don't think he ever hit any moves in this match besides Side Effects. Cause he hit what felt like a million of them. Steen was amazing as usual, w/his masterful character work and funny arrogant antics to boot. Crowd was ON FIRE, Corino was awesome in Hardy's corner, I liked the use of the ladder brought into this match, yeah small stuff but good match. Unfortunely, I was a little bothered by a few things, one of them being the predictable path of it being Steen vs. the world (in this case SCUM). But yeah, match was good.



> Kevin Steen vs. El Generico, PWG Steen Wolf 2011 - ****3/4
> Kevin Steen vs. Tyler Black, ROH Salvation 2010 - ****3/4
> El Generico vs. Bryan Danielson, PWG European Vacation II: Germany - ****1/2
> *Kevin Steen vs. Fit Finlay, PWG Battle Of Los Angeles 2011 - ****1/4*
> ...


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

BOLA 2011 is amazing. Generico/Claudio is fucking phenomenal but Generico/Steen is one of the best things ever.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Apparently Scott Steiner defeated Ricky Steamboat for the WCW TV title in 1992 before the Steiners left for the WWF. I did not know this match existed and I'm very excited to watch it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

When it comes to Steen/Generico (for me), it's:

BOLA 2011 > Steen Wolf > Final Battle 2010 > Showdown in the Sun > Death Before Dishonor VIII

Never saw their ladder match from ROH (should I?), but BOLA 2011 is an absolute masterpiece of storytelling and gratification.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Apparently Scott Steiner defeated Ricky Steamboat for the WCW TV title in 1992 before the Steiners left for the WWF. I did not know this match existed and I'm very excited to watch it.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Just got done watching it. Pretty solid. Were they flirting a Scott Steiner heel turn at this time before him and Rick left?


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

If anyone has links to Sami Callihan's greatest matches and can PM them to me or something, it'd be greatly appreciated and you'd be a God among men.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

RAVEN said:


> If anyone has links to Sami Callihan's greatest matches and can PM them to me or something, it'd be greatly appreciated and you'd be a God among men.


At around 90 minutes into this video, you'll find Sami Callihan vs. Matt Hardy from 2CW in 2013. Seriously great match and one of the best I saw from the indies in 2013.
http://www.livesportsvideo.com/goli...grp=&s=mp4&adds=&m=guestfree&listgca=Circle||

Sami Callihan vs. John Morrison (2CW 2012) Believe this got voted as the indy match of the year somewhere? @Concrete would know.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xwr945_2cw-sami-callihan-vs-john-morrison-8-3-12_lifestyle

Sami Callihan vs. Davey Richards (AAW Bound By Hate 2012) Never saw this myself but it's online and a lot of people praised it, so yeah.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=L93ozfmBBueFiSSLFSUz7A&bvm=bv.85076809,d.cWc

The real money in Callihan's work are his matches with Finlay & El Generico, but I couldn't find them myself.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Just got done watching it. Pretty solid. Were they flirting a Scott Steiner heel turn at this time before him and Rick left?


http://wrestlingclassics.com/.ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=117373

Found a link about what was going on at the time. Steiner was in the process of a heel turn, and WCW at this time period tended to stretch out heel turns for months instead of having one specific moment where the turn occurred. Brian Pillman's "turn" lasted for at least three or four months. Barry Windham during this same period basically changed alignments every week until he finally settled as a heel. The Steiners left before the full turn occurred, and as a result the TV Title nearly faded into obscurity.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm sure the Finlay/Callihan series was uploaded in the MM Section.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I subscribe to Highspots.tv and while they mostly have indy matches up they do have a bunch of old ECW Fan Cam matches. Kind of a fun way to watch ECW because you get a 1 camera man at ringside recording everything with no commentary. I've been to a lot of indy shows and it's as close to replicating the feeling of sitting front row at a wrestling show that I've been able to find. Anyway I watched some ECW matches and I thought I would post some reviews. 



Highspots TV Reviews: ECW

I would never call myself a fan of ECW but Highspots has a bunch of their matches and all are shot with the “Fan Cam.” Now I’m sure there will be a ton of shit on here that I wouldn’t like but I’m going to be selective and hopefully pick good matches out of the ones that are available. 


*The Great Sasuke vs. Lance Storm* (10/17/97)

The match had a very exhibition like feeling but it was fun to watch. Both guys are pretty talented and they had a great technical exchange for 9 minutes or so. The crowd really sucked. They were in Downingtown, PA and the crowd tried to imitate Philly. They had the attitude but lacked the respect that the Philly crowds have towards good workers. There are very few reasons why you should ever be chanting “boring” 3 minutes into a match. Anyway the match just had some nice holds and counters and a few cool dives. Pacing was kept quick because of the short length. nothing mind blowing but a fun watch.
***¾ *


_ECW Championship Match_
*Masato Tanaka(c) vs. WING Kanemura (12/18/99)*

This was awesome. I mean there are all sorts of things wrong with the match, the big one being that the selling was horrible at times. That being said it was still awesome. You just have these two badasses from Japan trying to kill each other. Kanemura controlled some of the match and he was hilarious. He was nice enough to everyone at first but once Tanaka had a fan hold a chair up and then he threw Kanemura into the chair Kanemura went full heel. And there is something that is just entertaining about watching this guy beating the absolute shit out of Tanaka while insulting people with a mix of sign language and broken English. The match was brutal and at times hilarious. Great way to spend 10 minutes. 
****¼ *


*Dean Malenko vs. Eddie Guerrero* (5/20/95)

This was an early match in the feud that these two had before both left for WCW. I can’t say I was all that impressed. The match was only around 10 minutes and I think that was the biggest problem. They worked like they had all the time in the world. I liked what they did as everything they did looked good but I felt like I saw the feeling out process in a 30 minute match. You were left feeling that both guys are really smart in the ring as it was a constant battle for control of the match and neither guy was able to take control for too long. The pace was slow and both of them seemed fine with that as they seemed to come in with the same game plan. The finish kind of came out of nowhere and it just seemed like the winner got lucky with the pin. I know in Japan every once in a while a main event would end up being really short to let everyone know that someone can win at any time. I feel like that’s what they did here. It was cool to see and I enjoyed it but I wanted more and I know they can do better.
***¼ *


_ECW Championship Match:_
*Terry Funk(c) vs. Stevie Richards* (5/24/97)

From what I gathered was that Richards was going through some kind of breakup with the bWo. Anyway, the story really tells itself here as you have the guy that was in a parody, comedy group challenging a legend in Terry Funk for the title. It was Richards trying to hand with Funk. And when they were in the ring he was able to do just that. He always seemed like the underdog but he was able to hold his own. When they got outside the ring though he was bested by Funk. I enjoyed that dynamic a lot and I even liked an ending filled with interference. The bWo at first helps Richards, then they attacks him, and then they leave. So Richards took a big beating but he was trying to hang in there and win the title. It was a really good underdog performance from him. I wouldn’t call it a great match but it had a compelling story and kept me interested. 
**** *


_ECW Television Championship Match:_
*Mikey Whipwreck vs. Koji Nakagawa* (12/30/95)

I haven’t really seen much of Mikey Whipwreck but I get the character and I thought this was a pretty good example of him. Mikey was overmatched and out of his league. He comes in a double champion loved by the crowd but Nakagawa is a superior athlete and wrestler than he is. But then he wins anyway and you are happy but sort of scratching your head. I liked the match, a good 5 minute affair. Nakagawa had some solid offense as he kept Mikey on the mat and had this methodical pace to his offense. I also really liked how he would apply his submissions, it wasn’t this one sudden motion and then it was locked in. He would precisely lock up part of Mikey and it would be a process to get the submission perfectly locked in. Cool match.
***½ *


*Super Crazy and Super Calo vs. Tajiri and Ikuto Hidaka* (12/18/99)

It seemed as if Super Crazy and Tajiri were feuding and they each brought a partner to this match. And it worked because this was pretty awesome. Tajiri was hands down the star of the match, he killed it. He showed that he had some real heat with Super Crazy and he had these evil grins all throughout the match when things were going his way. His kicks were brutal and he brought a great intensity. Tajiri and Super Crazy stayed away from each other for the the most part and were left with the Calo/Tajiri and Crazy/Hidaka pairing for most of the match. The match always seemed to be on the brink of insanity but other than a couple minutes on the floor they kept things under control. Great pacing and I need to stress again how great Tajiri was. 
*****


*The Dudleys vs. Tommy Dreamer, Sandman and Spike Dudley* (5/14/98)

The promo/introduction for the Dudleys took about 12 minutes and the amount of heat they got was nuclear. They were showered with garbage the entire time and someone even threw a chair at them. I think this was the show where they goaded someone to jump off the balcony but that wasn’t shown as there was a clip during their promo. Even if it wasn’t seeing people hate heels so much was really cool. Then the other team comes out and they drink beer and stuff for the entire duration of “Enter Sandman.” They get into the ring, they give Spike his own beer, he drinks it, and then he passes out. So I’m 23 minutes into this 47 minute video and Dreamer and D-Von locked up for the first time, then they stopped wrestling and we get more antics. I mean it was pretty cool at first but this was a little too much.

Anyway the match was fun enough once they got going. Spike and Bubba had an awesome exchange early on in the match that was perfect for the size difference. Spike got the upper hand but then Bubba tagged in Big Dick Dudley and Spike was visibly afraid of him which was a nice touch. I can’t believe I’m about to say this but Big Dick Dudley and Sandman alone in the ring were amazing. Not because of what they did but because Bubba was talking shit on the apron and it seemed so real. They had an exchange where punches were thrown and they honestly did not look like wrestling punches. From that point on you knew that there was no way all Hell wasn’t going to break loose and it should have gone crazy. It did and they had some brawling outside that was a lot of fun. There was a pretty funny exchange between Beulah and Joel Gertner as well. The ending was a little too gimicky for me but otherwise I really did enjoy the match.
****¼ *​

Well on the plus side I was glad that I didn't pick out anything that I hated but I also didn't get anything that I would call great either. I was hoping I would find some buried gems or something but that wasn't really the case. I also hope that people aren't outraged at me for giving Malenko/Eddie such a low rating.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I grabbed a copy of that ECW Fan Cam date (05/14/98), just to see that Dudley promo lol.

Was insane imo when looking back, esp Bubba Ray.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> http://wrestlingclassics.com/.ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=117373
> 
> Found a link about what was going on at the time. Steiner was in the process of a heel turn, and WCW at this time period tended to stretch out heel turns for months instead of having one specific moment where the turn occurred. Brian Pillman's "turn" lasted for at least three or four months. Barry Windham during this same period basically changed alignments every week until he finally settled as a heel. The Steiners left before the full turn occurred, and as a result the TV Title nearly faded into obscurity.


Yes I do remember how their turns took forever.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Got the free month of the Network earlier today. So far I've watched... one match :lmao. And it was Ziggler/Bryan from Bragging Rights. Wasn't as good as I remembered, but still a ton of fun to watch. Certainly not something I want to see in 2015 at say, WM though. Ziggler has somehow regressed since then and unless he lets Bryan call the entire match I don't see it being more than a flashy moves exhibition.


----------



## Concrete (May 28, 2010)

The Sami Callihan vs John Morrison match was voted MOTY over at PWInsider...though it is a fan poll so the results aren't ideal. Still won though out of ALL the matches from the year.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

#ROOT said:


> Got the free month of the Network earlier today. So far I've watched... one match :lmao. And it was Ziggler/Bryan from Bragging Rights. Wasn't as good as I remembered, but still a ton of fun to watch. Certainly not something I want to see in 2015 at say, WM though. Ziggler has somehow regressed since then and unless he lets Bryan call the entire match I don't see it being more than a flashy moves exhibition.


The best chance that match has is if one or both of them get really mean for it. Not a full heel turn or anything but they need to up the aggression if the match is going to work. I could see them going with the generic indy wrestling story where they start out doing some flashy stuff until someones gets pissed and things get serious.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

If you guys haven't seen yet, WWE Network is celebrating Black History Month and has a specific section with a bunch of old shows on there. Mid-South included! Got some WCW from '92 and some really old '70s shows too. Full list can be seen here: http://411mania.com/wrestling/lots-of-content-added-to-wwe-network-for-black-history-month/


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I think I saw 10 Callihan matches in 2012 I thought were better than the Morrsion match. Remember it being solid, though. Callihan was seriously on fire that year.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*STEENERICO EXPLOSION:
*​


Spoiler: Before



Kevin Steen vs. El Generico, PWG Steen Wolf 2011 - ****3/4
Kevin Steen vs. Tyler Black, ROH Salvation 2010 - ****3/4
El Generico vs. Bryan Danielson, PWG European Vacation II: Germany - ****1/2
Kevin Steen vs. Fit Finlay, PWG Battle Of Los Angeles 2011 - ****1/4
Kevin Steen vs. Davey Richards, ROH Best In The World 2012 - ****1/4
El Generico vs. Bryan Danielson, PWG Giant Sized Annual #4 - ****1/4
El Generico vs. Kota Ibushi, DDT 5/4/2012 - ****
Kevin Steen vs. Shinsuke Nakamura, ROH/NJPW War Of The Worlds 2014 - ***3/4
Sami Zayn vs. Titus O'Neil, WWE NXT 10/30/2014 - ***1/2
Kevin Steen vs. Davey Richards, ROH Border Wars 2012 - ***1/2
Kevin Steen vs. Matt Hardy, ROH Best In The World 2013 - ***1/2
Sami Zayn vs. Tyler Breeze, WWE NXT 11/6/2014 - ***1/4
Sami Zayn vs. Adrian Neville, WWE Main Event 5/20/2014 (dark match) - ***1/4
Kevin Owens vs. CJ Parker, WWE NXT Takeover: R-Evolution - **1/2
El Generico vs. Samuray Del Sol, IWC Super Indy 10 - **


- So I decided to start off the most explosive "segment" of my Steenerico project w/something I am apalled as to how I hadn't ever seen before. I saw Steen's NXT debut, and it ruled... but what about Zayn's? Well, I went to figure it out for myself. And it was against CURT FUCKING HAWKINS. Most underrated guy in the ro-oh wait, he's out of the company, while his much inferior "twin" (Ryder) is employed... as a jobber, but still. Crazy how different things were just 2 years ago. Charlotte was the ring announcer. William Regal was calling shows. Zayn's theme was the most generic thing ever. Chris Hero was still employed (and should still be right now, him being fat is his own problem, tho he did deserve some backlash for his accordingly poor conduct... I mean, can you imagine? Zayn, Neville, Hero, Crowe, Uhaa, Balor, Steen, Kalisto, Breeze, KENTA, Kidd, all in the same show? Oh well, at least we got to see him vs Regal). But yeah. Zayn/Hawkins. Zayn's debut. Was it as good as Steen's? No. Was it good? For a debut, yes. It was a great initial showcase for Zayn, who got to show off his arsenal and his charisma and fighting spirit without throwing his big guns right off the bat. Hawkins was really good too, w/great cocky antics to boot. The crowd was engaged and into Zayn, even if far from super excited alas Steen, the match was fun, good job here.

- And, with so much talk on Chris Hero in the previous paragraph, I figured: why the fuck not watch some Hero? And, how convenient, there's a match of his vs Generico from 2010 avaliable on YT! So I went for it. And how did it turn out? Well, the first half was back-and-forthy showcase, a quite good one. It was as simple as Generico and his usual flashy schtick vs. Hero and his usual gritty schtick. A clash of styles and personalities as you could ask for. One sequence in particular that I was quite impressed took place on the outside, and it showed off both men's athleticism and resourcefulness awesomely, without feeling spotty or choreographed. A bulk of the match was a Hero control segment, as expected, and Generico sold every shot thrown at him like, I don't wanna say DEATH, but something akin to that. Beautiful. Hero himself was terrific as expected, w/his Steen/Regal hybrid persona of trash talking & arrogance + pure grittiness working out just great. The 1st half was good enough, as simplistic as it was. The second half of the match was more heart-driven and psychologically-driven, and THAT is where the match turns great - beggining w/the setup to Generico's comeback w/Hero violently trashing him verbally (and the announcers pointing out Generico's "psychological issues"), and Generico just exploding out right there. Evolving all the way to the finishing stretch, w/an elongated hope spot from Generico who was displaying non-stop heart and guts against Hero's roughing up of him and clear intentions to KO him. Some of the kickouts legit got me. The crowd was far from great, but wasn't DEAD either so they have that going for them. Badass stuff, overall.

- And for my 3rd watch, I FINALLY grabbed my hands on one of dem Steen/Nigel matches. Started out w/Injustice. And, uhh... this is the inferior match of the pair? Because it fucking RULED. If this is the least good of the two, God knows how good Northern Navigation is. I'm SERIOUSLY considering putting Steen above Zayn, and possibly even Bryan, setting him as the BITW in my books. The man is out of this world. He plays an incredible heel, but his babyface might be even better. LOVED his antics here. Well, I always do, And Nigel is just a case of a damn shame he didn't make it farther than he did. Flawless dickhead work to say the least. Him using Steen's hand to give the crowd the middle finger while holding an arm/shoulder lock over the injured shoulder is one of the greatest dickhead things I've ever seen in wrestling tbh. Beyond the 5-star character work, this match was ruthless in terms of action. It had some of the stiffest chops I've ever seen and heard. Would impress Benoit and Flair to say the least. And Nigel's shoulder work in this match? Relentless as I love it. Steen's selling was equally brilliant. And to add another extra point, the atmosphere (which I suspect will be even hotter in the rematch) was quite big right from the get go. And some of the nearfalls in the finishing stretch nearly got me. Keep in mind that I already knew who was walking out with the title. Now think that some of the nearfalls, by Steen, NEARLY GOT ME. In particular, the Superplex mid-air counter nearfall. That one was :mark:. But the one big curiosity regarding this match to me was the ending. I knew Nigel retained the title, but how exactly? Clean win? DQ? Well, jackass rope-grabbing win, that's how. Which was, you know, perfectly dissapointing for the case. I would've done something else, but this still worked. So... yeah. ***3/4 is the regular score I see for this match. Deserves WAY more for me. Maybe I'm too generous w/star ratings, but FUCK YOU.



Spoiler: After



Kevin Steen vs. El Generico, PWG Steen Wolf 2011 - ****3/4
Kevin Steen vs. Tyler Black, ROH Salvation 2010 - ****3/4
El Generico vs. Bryan Danielson, PWG European Vacation II: Germany - ****1/2
*Kevin Steen vs. Nigel McGuinness, ROH Injustice 2008 - ****1/4*
Kevin Steen vs. Fit Finlay, PWG Battle Of Los Angeles 2011 - ****1/4
Kevin Steen vs. Davey Richards, ROH Best In The World 2012 - ****1/4
El Generico vs. Bryan Danielson, PWG Giant Sized Annual #4 - ****1/4
El Generico vs. Kota Ibushi, DDT 5/4/2012 - ****
Kevin Steen vs. Shinsuke Nakamura, ROH/NJPW War Of The Worlds 2014 - ***3/4
*El Generico vs. Chris Hero, ROH Epic Encounter 3 - ***3/4*
Sami Zayn vs. Titus O'Neil, WWE NXT 10/30/2014 - ***1/2
Kevin Steen vs. Davey Richards, ROH Border Wars 2012 - ***1/2
Kevin Steen vs. Matt Hardy, ROH Best In The World 2013 - ***1/2
Sami Zayn vs. Tyler Breeze, WWE NXT 11/6/2014 - ***1/4
Sami Zayn vs. Adrian Neville, WWE Main Event 5/20/2014 (dark match) - ***1/4
Kevin Owens vs. CJ Parker, WWE NXT Takeover: R-Evolution - **1/2
*Sami Zayn vs. Curt Hawkins, WWE NXT 5/22/2013 - **1/4*
El Generico vs. Samuray Del Sol, IWC Super Indy 10 - **


----------



## TheChoppingMachine (Mar 25, 2014)

BOLA 2011 love is always good to see. One of my favorite shows ever. :generico

ATF if you haven't seen it, you should watch Generico & Ricochet vs Steen & Tozawa. :agree:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao I just listened to CM Punk cutting a promo where he talks about how he would never work with a boss that he doesn't like.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*No Way Out 2000:*

Kurt Angle vs Chris Jericho - ★★★
New Age Outlawz vs Dudleyz - ★½
Mark Henry vs Viscera - ★½ (lol @ Mizark's steel step bumps)
Hardy's vs Edge & Christian - ★★¾
Taz vs Big Boss Man - ★ (the post-match segment had me rolling :lmao)
Kane vs X-Pac - ★★
Radicalz vs Too Cool - ★★★¼
The Rock vs Big Show - ★★★½
Triple H vs Cactus Jack - ★★★★¼

Solid PPV overall. It's funny how not much has changed in their philosophies from 1999 yet the PPV's top to bottom quality has been night and day between the two.

Also got the free Network month again which allowed me to watch Cena vs HHH from NOC 2008 like I had been wanting to for weeks. Holds up as a good match with good limb work (even if they kinda ditch it later) and enjoyable finishing stretch. ★★★½


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

What did you guys think about the Murdock/Cade tag team? Saw a couple of their PPV matches vs. the Hardys. They have a very old school vibe that I liked, though I could see people finding their matches boring.

Did people here like their matches with the Hardys?

Cade looks like Paul Orndorff.

Also, C2D, did you ever See Jeff Hardy vs. Umaga in the cage? Lots of CokedUpOrton acting like a loon.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Cade/Murdoch were cool. Backlash and JD 2007 matches were both around the *** mark. Those two are a good example of a tag team being more than the sum of its parts. Two decent-enough wrestlers that, put together, were a good tag team.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

TheChoppingMachine said:


> BOLA 2011 love is always good to see. One of my favorite shows ever. :generico
> 
> ATF if you haven't seen it, you should watch Generico & Ricochet vs Steen & Tozawa. :agree:


I would, but I have a few rules for my Steenerico project:

1) No Generico/Steen matches allowed until Wednesday the night of Takeover (except for the very inaugural match, which was Steen Wolf)
2) No Tag matches

Only 2 rules, and it breaks both of them 8*D

Thanks for the recom. tho (Y)


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

New England Patriots v. Seattle Seahawks - SuperBowl XLIX - ****1/2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Felt like I had to get SOME use of the wwe network this morning. So after spending ages searching for something to watch, I ended up with Angle Vs Undertaker from September 4th 2003 :mark:. Match is still fucking incredible and better than anything any company has done in years. Though it's not helping me think the network is worth paying for lol, as I own the match on DVD. And I wouldn't have to leave my chair to get it and watch it.

Still not seeing the appeal of the network, especially when I already own almost everything they have on it . And the stuff I don't, I could easily get through everything I wanted to see in the free month and have no reason to pay for it ever again unless I really wanted to see a PPV live.


----------



## TheChoppingMachine (Mar 25, 2014)

ATF said:


> I would, but I have a few rules for my Steenerico project:
> 
> 1) No Generico/Steen matches allowed until Wednesday the night of Takeover (except for the very inaugural match, which was Steen Wolf)
> 2) No Tag matches
> ...


Well, it explains the absence of steenerico tag matches :hmm:

Did you found the 2 others Nigel vs Steen? I have both on my computer, I can upload them if you want.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I have Northern Navigation, don't know about a third one but if there is one, I would be grateful man (Y)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I thought Wyatt vs. Ziggler was better than Ric Flair vs. Wahoo McDaniel.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I liked it but didn't think it was great. Felt like it went long just for the sake of it and Ziggler pretty much never had a serious chance of winning. Somewhat of an extended squash. Ryback vs. Harper was quality though.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I liked it but didn't think it was great. Felt like it went long just for the sake of it and Ziggler pretty much never had a serious chance of winning. Somewhat of an extended squash. Ryback vs. Harper was quality though.


The guy is going to wrestle the Undertaker at Wrestlemania, he needs to look good. I like Ziggler and I can't even complain about that. 


And on another note I just watched a Scott Steiner match from 2006 and it was really good. Even more unbelievable is the fact that it was at some TNA House show that got recorded.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

TaylorFitz said:


> The guy is going to wrestle the Undertaker at Wrestlemania, he needs to look good. I like Ziggler and I can't even complain about that.


Oh I completely agree, I was just responding as to why I didn't think too highly of the match.

RAW was pretty darn good tonight. Bryan/Rollins was fun as hell, CESARO got a win, they started building some good feuds (Taker/Wyatt and Ambrose/Barrett), and a quality Ryback/Harper match. We got an upskirt Nikki Bella shot too, so that was a bonus. (Y) Looked hot as FUCK tonight, by the way.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Bryan/Rollins with a quite solid ring product with fun shanangians at the end with Reigns being a human missile to Show and turning the clock back two years and putting some actual force again into that spear on Mercury. Really enjoyed some simple psychology there with most moves having a purpose as Bryan worked the arm, seth worked the neck and established from the getgo seth with the power advantage. Bryan fed off the crowd, seth took advantages here and there. Nice solid lockup which was real nice to see done right in the states for once in the age where so many wrestlers dont heed austin's advice on a lockup. Didn't get the time or into enough of a flow for me to call great, so im inclined to go ***1/2 maybe ***3/4 on the high side or so. 

On a side note, when the hell was the last time Bryan broke out the Danielson special? that was a nice surprise. Since Dean stopped, we havent even gotten a butterfly suplex in some time let alon the Danielson special.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Yeah actually enjoyed Raw after Idk how many weeks tonight.

Ryback/Harper and Bryan/Rollins were super fun, Wyatt/Ziggler was decent, Miz segment backstage with Mizdow was pretty good. Miz doing some great heel work.

Highlight of the night was the Curtis Axel promo and Ambrose dumping him out :lmao :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I remember Bryan doing a top rope Danielson Special in 2012 against Punk.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

When Bryan & Rollins get 20+ minutes on PPV, it's gonna blow our minds. I have a feeling we'll be getting that before this calendar year is over. Title match? Strong possibility, I'd say.

Bryan vs. Reigns though. That's gonna be interesting. Pretty big money match for the company.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> When Bryan & Rollins get 20+ minutes on PPV, it's gonna blow our minds. I have a feeling we'll be getting that before this calendar year is over. Title match? Strong possibility, I'd say.
> 
> Bryan vs. Reigns though. That's gonna be interesting. *Pretty big money match for the company.*


And ironically enough, it'll be free.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

I enjoyed Ziggler-Wyatt more then Bryan-Rollins, but I am a bigger fan of the first two. Which is probably strange and different then all of you. But that's me.

In saying that both were really good television matches.


That NETWORK PLUG by Stephanie during the opening segment was so forced and bad. Not needed at all.

Not even in the tongue in cheek way, it was so horrid.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I cannot say with certainty what will happen at FL between Reigns and Bryan, but my head and gut says Reigns will go over, especially with all the interferences in play if nothing changes between now and FL.

A glance at history since Jr took over for Sr shows Vince's "pet projects" or more appropriately hand picked guys if you will have been Hogan, Tom Mcgee, Warrior, I would personally argue Taker especially in the story of the early days of that character and how Vince loved the look, co-created the character and didnt want Taker leaving his feet as he personally instructed talent not to mention until Taker started turning things around to begin an all time path in 97, Taker floundered from about 92 all the way to pre-Mankind 96 yet Vince kept him a main player, Luger, Diesel, Cena, Bobby Lashley and now Reigns (obviously there could be more but these are the obvious and unless Vince ever releases the wrestling autobiography to end all wrestling biographies, we will never fully know). Of the eight guys I listed while Reigns is a question mark, Vince rode out six of those until the very end, electing to pull the plug early on Mcgee and Lashley without further forcing the two and has riden Cena arguably past his due, rode Diesel too long, notoriously rode Hogan for way too long until he couldnt anymore and we all know how the Lex express went. Taker obviously went on to have an illustrious, all time North American career, but in those stale years Vince still leaned on him heavily.

I use this long illustration to point out that Vince doesn't like to give up on his hand selected guys and that would take alot of humility after going so far with Reigns' rocket push. I'm not seeing it, especially after the Rumble stunt. Keep in mind too this isn't a landmark wrestlemania, and this year Vince actually has a logical out for not rolling with Bryan getting his health. Of course, if done wrong, this Fast Lane match could ruin Reigns RTWM and perhaps beyond.

Edit: remember too Vince is out of touch.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I absolutely recommend that all of you who aren't watching it right now sit down and watch Austin's podcast with Hunter. He managed to say nearly all the right things to every question and I've really enjoyed hearing him be 100% real with Austin for over an hour. He needs to take over this company ASAP.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Re-watched the Rumble triple threat for the first time. Enjoyed it more than on the live viewing but for the most part I still feel the same about it. Definitely a fun match, definitely a good match, but I'm not subscribing to the MotYC praise. It's my default MotY as of now because there really hasn't been anything outstanding this year and this at least was outstanding in parts. I loved it up until they took Lesnar out of the equation. In fact I loved all of it when Lesnar was involved. The first half of the match was fucking awesome and Brock's comeback at the end was awesome too but I felt like it lost quite a bit of steam during the Rollins/Cena one on one segment. Not to say that portion was actively bad but it was just kind of there, mostly due to the fact that there was no way the match was going to end with Lesnar laying on that stretcher. If I had to throw a star rating at it I'd go for ***3/4. Fell just short of being truly GREAT imo but was a blast to watch.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

WrestlingOracle said:


> I cannot say with certainty what will happen at FL between Reigns and Bryan, but my head and gut says *Reigns will go over*


You don't say










Knowing WWE they'll turn Bryan heel for that match.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Don't know if anyone knows but apparently Daniel Bryan has a book that's expected to come out in July. It's basically about his journey to Wrestlemania.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Don't know if anyone knows but apparently Daniel Bryan has a book that's expected to come out in July. It's basically about his journey to Wrestlemania.


Pre-ordered it a week ago from Amazon. So excited for it :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

STEENERICO KABOOM:



Spoiler: Before



Kevin Steen vs. El Generico, PWG Steen Wolf 2011 - ****3/4
Kevin Steen vs. Tyler Black, ROH Salvation 2010 - ****3/4
El Generico vs. Bryan Danielson, PWG European Vacation II: Germany - ****1/2
Kevin Steen vs. Nigel McGuinness, ROH Injustice 2008 - ****1/4
Kevin Steen vs. Fit Finlay, PWG Battle Of Los Angeles 2011 - ****1/4
Kevin Steen vs. Davey Richards, ROH Best In The World 2012 - ****1/4
El Generico vs. Bryan Danielson, PWG Giant Sized Annual #4 - ****1/4
El Generico vs. Kota Ibushi, DDT 5/4/2012 - ****
Kevin Steen vs. Shinsuke Nakamura, ROH/NJPW War Of The Worlds 2014 - ***3/4
El Generico vs. Chris Hero, ROH Epic Encounter 3 - ***3/4
Sami Zayn vs. Titus O'Neil, WWE NXT 10/30/2014 - ***1/2
Kevin Steen vs. Davey Richards, ROH Border Wars 2012 - ***1/2
Kevin Steen vs. Matt Hardy, ROH Best In The World 2013 - ***1/2
Sami Zayn vs. Tyler Breeze, WWE NXT 11/6/2014 - ***1/4
Sami Zayn vs. Adrian Neville, WWE Main Event 5/20/2014 (dark match) - ***1/4
Kevin Owens vs. CJ Parker, WWE NXT Takeover: R-Evolution - **1/2
Sami Zayn vs. Curt Hawkins, WWE NXT 5/22/2013 - **1/4
El Generico vs. Samuray Del Sol, IWC Super Indy 10 - **


 Okay, I feel too lazy to actually do full write-ups of the matches, so here's what I watched:

* Steen vs. Callihan:
- Had mixed reactions to it being under 10 minutes (Generico/Del Sol being the reason why)
- Started hot w/a nice outside brawl after Steen jumped Sami from behind
- 5 mins. of super fun
- Steen and Callihan pretty much beat the crap out of each other
- Nice sub-plot regarding Steen's size advantage
- Meh and cheap ending, but one that made sense

* Generico vs. Sydal:
- A match of two faces
- 1st half of this match is the best thing in wrestling history
- Ring had, I suppose, legit broken earlier in the night
- Generico and Sydal sell the "middle-ring pit of doom" like that exactly
- Such allowed for some of the funniest and most innovative antics I've seen
- Generico hitting the pit for the first time: GREATEST. OVERSELL. EVER.
- Match starts losing its stride at the 2nd half
- Degenerates into your average indy ending stretch with nothing particularly memorable about it
- Overall: 1st half is a million stars, 2nd ain't bad but is just there

* Steen vs. McGuinness II:
- And I thought Injustice was amazing...
- Awesome big fight feel right off the bat
- Atmosphere is crazy for this, w/Canadian crowd goin' nuts for Steen
- Yet another masterclass of character work, this time in Nigel as an ultra dickhead vs. Steen as a fighting underdog
- Steen's antics are as stupendous as ever, but Nigel's are arguably even better in this one
- Excellent realistic tone, w/everything being "worked for" rather than just done, like the way Benoit used to run things
- Incredible limb workover by Nigel, who exercises SADISTIC punishment on Steen's back
- Steen's selling of the back is pure perfection, the best selljob I've ever seen from him (and that's saying a lot)
- Nigel throwing Steen into the apron spot: OUCH OUCH OUCH OUCH OUCH OUCH OUCH OUCH.... OUCH.
- Sadly, back work gets more-or-less ignored at the last 1/3 of the match
- Luckily the finishing stretch is totally sweet enough to make up for it
- Never ceases to amaze me how can a man the size of Steen manage to do something like a Somersault Plancha off the top rope
- Some awesome nearfalls along the way, Jawbreaker kick-out in particular was :mark:
- The finish was badass and, again, perfectly dissapointing
- Some flaws aside, this was, overall, a true classic



Spoiler: After



Kevin Steen vs. El Generico, PWG Steen Wolf 2011 - ****3/4
Kevin Steen vs. Tyler Black, ROH Salvation 2010 - ****3/4
*Kevin Steen vs. Nigel McGuinness, ROH Northern Navigation - ****1/2*
El Generico vs. Bryan Danielson, PWG European Vacation II: Germany - ****1/2
Kevin Steen vs. Nigel McGuinness, ROH Injustice 2008 - ****1/4
Kevin Steen vs. Fit Finlay, PWG Battle Of Los Angeles 2011 - ****1/4
Kevin Steen vs. Davey Richards, ROH Best In The World 2012 - ****1/4
El Generico vs. Bryan Danielson, PWG Giant Sized Annual #4 - ****1/4
El Generico vs. Kota Ibushi, DDT 5/4/2012 - ****
Kevin Steen vs. Shinsuke Nakamura, ROH/NJPW War Of The Worlds 2014 - ***3/4
El Generico vs. Chris Hero, ROH Epic Encounter 3 - ***3/4
Sami Zayn vs. Titus O'Neil, WWE NXT 10/30/2014 - ***1/2
Kevin Steen vs. Davey Richards, ROH Border Wars 2012 - ***1/2
Kevin Steen vs. Matt Hardy, ROH Best In The World 2013 - ***1/2
Sami Zayn vs. Tyler Breeze, WWE NXT 11/6/2014 - ***1/4
Sami Zayn vs. Adrian Neville, WWE Main Event 5/20/2014 (dark match) - ***1/4
*El Generico vs. Matt Sydal, King Of Europe Cup 2007 - ****
*Kevin Steen vs. Sami Callihan, IWC 11/9/2012 - **3/4*
Kevin Owens vs. CJ Parker, WWE NXT Takeover: R-Evolution - **1/2
Sami Zayn vs. Curt Hawkins, WWE NXT 5/22/2013 - **1/4
El Generico vs. Samuray Del Sol, IWC Super Indy 10 - **


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I absolutely recommend that all of you who aren't watching it right now sit down and watch Austin's podcast with Hunter. He managed to say nearly all the right things to every question and I've really enjoyed hearing him be 100% real with Austin for over an hour. He needs to take over this company ASAP.


Indeed. I thought that was way better than the Vince interview. Austin didn't why away from any questions and Hunter appeared to answer them all as honestly and concisely as he could. I do wish they had gone on longer, as I would have loved for Austin to ask Hunter more questions about his wrestling career, but at any rate they still covered a lot of interesting topics. And ditto, I never thought I'd say it, but Hunter needs to be given total control over the onscreen WWE product ASAP. Between that interview and Jericho's podcast interview I feel fairly certain that Hunter "just gets it". Then again, I'm not backstage and I don't know him personally. We will just have to wait and see.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

Can someone please tell me outside of the NXT stuff, what about what Hunter makes you think if he had total control, things would turn around?

I believe he is a better mind then Vince, (Hell a lot of people are when it comes to creative) but what are the reasons you guys are saying this?

I will watch the podcast, I'm curious to what he said specifically that made you all say this?


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

He basically said a bunch of safe answers that would appeal to the more 'smart' fans I guess. It was a fun interview but nothing noteworthy came from it. He even said he likes doing NXT because the main shows could never be like that because of the audience being different. The product really probably wouldn't change that much. Especially based on what he said himself on the podcast. The main show would never be like nxt because that's how their business is now.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

machomark said:


> Can someone please tell me outside of the NXT stuff, what about what Hunter makes you think if he had total control, things would turn around?
> 
> I believe he is a better mind then Vince, (Hell a lot of people are when it comes to creative) but what are the reasons you guys are saying this?
> 
> I will watch the podcast, I'm curious to what he said specifically that made you all say this?



You can't just say "outside of NXT" because that is the best way to gain evidence of how Hunter would run a wrestling show if he was in charge.

Specifically, here are the things about NXT that give me faith Hunter will run the WWE better than Vince:

1. Hunter appears to have a GREAT eye for talent. I mean geeze, Sami Zayn, Kevin Steen, Sami Callihan, Luke Harper, Cesaro, Bray Wyatt, Seth Rollins, Dean Ambrose, Adrian Neville, Sasha Banks, Tyler Breeze, Charlotte, and Rusev are all guys who Hunter chose to either sign directly or guys who once they were signed by one of his scouts he immediately spotted their talent and booked them well. He isn't perfect, as seen by them letting Chris Hero go and the fact that they haven't signed Adam Cole yet. But he definitely appears to have a feel for guys who can be GREAT wrestlers.

2. The slow burn booking he employs. He didn't just hand Sami Zayn the title right off the bat when Bo Dallas got called up even though he was obviously the #1 guy. No, he made it a journey for Sami and it meant SO MUCH more to see him beat Neville at REvolution last month. The booking in NXT is by no means perfect but on the whole it is really good and it's WORLDS better than Raw or Smackdown.

3. He seems to favor not scripting promos and wants to just coach guys up, give them some bullet points, and then let them go do their thing.

4. He seems to have a more open mind about different styles of work. You see guys in NXT working matches and doing moves that would never be allowed by Vince on the main roster.

5. He's a pro wrestler at heart. If it comes down to it, he's always going to favor more pro wrestling oriented stuff over the "sports entertainment" garbage.



Bubz said:


> He basically said a bunch of safe answers that would appeal to the more 'smart' fans I guess. It was a fun interview but nothing noteworthy came from it. He even said he likes doing NXT because the main shows could never be like that because of the audience being different. The product really probably wouldn't change that much. Especially based on what he said himself on the podcast. The main show would never be like nxt because that's how their business is now.


I think that's a load of BS. Of course Raw and Smackdown could be booked and presented like NXT. It's not like NXT isn't TV-PG too. NXT is basically all the good things about Raw and Smackdown without any of the bad things. There is no reason at all why they couldn't take the same booking principles and presentation of NXT and apply it to Raw or Smackdown. I think Hunter just said that so it doesn't make the 2 main shows look bad in comparison to NXT. He is a company man, after all.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

@machomark, watch the podcast from last night and you'll know exactly what we're talking about. Hunter said so many different things that made me nod my head and agreement or just basically HEAR the fact that he knows what he's doing. He said things like how he wished RAW was back to 2 hours, giving the women more time to ACTUALLY wrestle, taking more time to build proper feuds and storylines, etc. etc. The guy just seemed so genuine and said so many smart things that makes you feel like he's ready to handle the whole show very very soon. I can't really explain it, but when you watch both podcasts consecutively, you get the feeling that Vince was all about business and he seemed out of touch, while Hunter seemed so relaxed and in tune with he current day audience.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I haven't seen the interview yet but Hunter saying he wants Raw to go back to 2 hours is enough for me to think the product would be better with him in charge.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I haven't seen it either, but I'm definitely hitting on that interview tonight.

Surely more fun than wondering around the forum atm. The WWE section is unfuckingbearable right now: it's pretty much World War III between Bryan marks and Reigns marks.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Bryan/Rollins was a ton of fun. Can't wait to see them go at it on PPV this year.

2015's top 3 so far:

1. Brock Lesnar v. John Cena v. Seth Rollins - Royal Rumble (1/25/15)
2. Daniel Bryan v. Seth Rollins - Raw (2/2/15)
3. Dean Ambrose & Roman Reigns v. Big Show & Seth Rollins - SmackDown (1/9/15)

Rusev/Ryback deserves a mention but didn't quite make the cutoff.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Chuckling at everyone thinking the product will be so much better when Hunter takes over based on nothing other than Hunter saying the right things to the right people because he's obsessed with how he comes across and everyone liking him. Mr. "I ain't got beef with anyone". Basically said NXT is booked to cater to the Smark audience because that's who watches the Network (and this podcast) and then also said that they don't make up the whole of their overall audience so I have no idea why people think the NXT philosophy catered towards a specific segment of their audience is what the main product catered towards all of their audience is going to be like when Hunter has the final say. Yeah some things might get better but the philosophy isn't changing. He's never catering towards the demand from most people reading this and trying to present himself as so different to Vince is just an image enhancing tactic catered towards the audience watching the Network who he himself identified as the more hardcore fans. He knows Raw going to 2 hours is what that audience wants to hear but it won't happen because of the out he opened for himself of the financial gains of the 3rd hour.

There's a ton of inconsistencies in what he says too which come across from trying to please the audience who will be watching this (not that this is wrong, it would be silly to do otherwise). For example, he backs out of saying Reigns isn't ready and then later talks about how it worked out better for him to have his 1996 push delayed because he wasn't ready at the time. The Punk stuff is bullshit and again him doing his best to not annoy a certain segment of the audience. They have totally different philosophies on Wrestling and Punk would be a terrible person to put too much stock in for the reasons that were proved true last year so Hunter was never going to get behind him as the company guy. But instead of saying they had their differences and didn't see eye to eye on most things he was again in image enhancement mode.

I don't want kids googling Chyna and seeing what they see will just make kids google Chyna to see something they shouldn't see. There's far worse reasons to neglect someone from the HOF that haven't been neglected but it sounds more like Hunter wanting to distance himself from her for personal reasons (which is fine and means she'll probably go in when his kids grow up).

The NFL playbook stuff was horrible and the big reason why nothing drastic will change. Everyone working the same style is just boring and limits creative opportunities. All of a sudden you can't do anything different in the ring because they've trained all these guys from scratch to only know how to do one thing. Not to mention it also greatly restricts them if they then get released. Yeah an NFL team may want to play a certain style of Football but that same team will also need to adapt their style at some point too and be able to play more than one way. One dimensional teams always get found out eventually and don't have longevity to their success without adapting so the analogy is rubbish. The "our way is best because we're more successful" stance is rubbish too when you have no competition. Any way will be successful for them right now due to the lack of viable alternatives for the majority of their audience but they refuse to acknowledge that other ways may be even more successful.

I always just laugh at the we give the fans what they want and react to how they react lines. They have their guys that they'll go with regardless and I'd much rather them just be up front about it and cite the reasons for why their do things their way and that sometimes the fans can't always have it their own way. Disappointed Austin didn't ask either Vince or Hunter if they regret promoting crowds hijacking their shows now.

It was a smart interview from Hunter that seemingly worked his intended magic on so many of the "smart" fans. *


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Of course the product would be better under Hunter. Hell, it'd be better under anyone but Vince right now.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Seabs pretty much nailed that.

On another note, I'm liking what they're doing with Reigns currently. They've clearly succeeded too because even people on this board have been going on about how good Reigns looked and how they feel sorry for him now. The stuff with Bryan was horrible though because they made him seem like a bit of a dick in order to get Reigns more sympathy which was just stupid.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*So Reigns being booked as a dominant ass kicker over heels worked? Well I never.*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I think people are content with Reigns for now because at the present moment he's not guaranteed to be going to Mania. There's a decent chance Bryan beats him and they hold off on Reigns until next year (as they should've from the start).

Reigns did well on Raw. Didn't care too much for his part in the opening segment but the little backstage skit with Bryan tells me all I need to know. Reigns needs to be a heel. I know people are saying Bryan is the one that looks like a dick in all this but Reigns in that segment just felt like a heel to me with his mannerisms and the way he spoke to Bryan. Now maybe that's because WWE has conditioned me to thinking that heels are the ones who show personality while top faces are bland and corny, but they have a golden opportunity with Reigns as a top heel.

The only issue I see with that is then it gets in the way of Seth Rollins, and Rollins deserves better than that.. plus he has MITB and he'll have to cash it in within 4 months after Mania, so unless they're going to do a heel on heel cash in or have Reigns drop the title prematurely and force a transitional reign, Rollins is going to have to lose the briefcase.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Bubz said:


> Seabs pretty much nailed that.
> 
> On another note, I'm liking what they're doing with Reigns currently. They've clearly succeeded too because even people on this board have been going on about how good Reigns looked and how they feel sorry for him now. The stuff with Bryan was horrible though because they made him seem like a bit of a dick in order to get Reigns more sympathy which was just stupid.


While I don't like his singles run (when it comes to lack of quality matches), Reigns still has his moments and his part in RAWs main event was one of um. I've always felt sorry for Reigns but had no problem with fans crappin on him to send a message to WWE. I knew he wasn't ready at this point last year now he's main eventing WM.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I read an article last night on 411Mania that said Reigns' loss to Big Show on RAW was his FIRST ever pinfall loss in singles competition since being called up to the main roster. He's lost by DQ or some other nonsense along the way, but his last pinfall loss was against LEO KRUGER in 2012!

Is that crazy or what? Hadn't even noticed. I'm very interested to see how they're going to work the Bryan match at Fast Lane and who the hell is gonna win it (if either of them). I have a feeling something screwy will happen and we get another 3-way, which is completely fine with me.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Team CLEXA said:


> *Chuckling at everyone thinking the product will be so much better when Hunter takes over based on nothing other than Hunter saying the right things to the right people because he's obsessed with how he comes across and everyone liking him. Mr. "I ain't got beef with anyone". Basically said NXT is booked to cater to the Smark audience because that's who watches the Network (and this podcast) and then also said that they don't make up the whole of their overall audience so I have no idea why people think the NXT philosophy catered towards a specific segment of their audience is what the main product catered towards all of their audience is going to be like when Hunter has the final say. Yeah some things might get better but the philosophy isn't changing. He's never catering towards the demand from most people reading this and trying to present himself as so different to Vince is just an image enhancing tactic catered towards the audience watching the Network who he himself identified as the more hardcore fans. He knows Raw going to 2 hours is what that audience wants to hear but it won't happen because of the out he opened for himself of the financial gains of the 3rd hour.
> 
> There's a ton of inconsistencies in what he says too which come across from trying to please the audience who will be watching this (not that this is wrong, it would be silly to do otherwise). For example, he backs out of saying Reigns isn't ready and then later talks about how it worked out better for him to have his 1996 push delayed because he wasn't ready at the time. The Punk stuff is bullshit and again him doing his best to not annoy a certain segment of the audience. They have totally different philosophies on Wrestling and Punk would be a terrible person to put too much stock in for the reasons that were proved true last year so Hunter was never going to get behind him as the company guy. But instead of saying they had their differences and didn't see eye to eye on most things he was again in image enhancement mode.
> 
> ...





Bubz said:


> Seabs pretty much nailed that.
> 
> On another note, I'm liking what they're doing with Reigns currently. They've clearly succeeded too because even people on this board have been going on about how good Reigns looked and how they feel sorry for him now. The stuff with Bryan was horrible though because they made him seem like a bit of a dick in order to get Reigns more sympathy which was just stupid.


I think you might be mistaking my reasoning behind supporting Hunter taking over for Vince. It isn’t so much that I’m enamored with Hunter as a person or wrestling mind, or that I think he is in anyway the best candidate for such a position. It’s that Hunter is not Vince. That’s 95% of the reason I am in favor of Hunter taking over, he’s simply not Vince.
I don’t think it’s unfair to say that the vast, vast majority of issues that most pro wrestling fans have with the current product are things that occur under the direction of Vince McMahon and Kevin Dunn to a lesser extent. It’s pretty well reported that Hunter and Steph don’t like Kevin Dunn, and that Dunn would be one of the first people to go were Hunter to really become the boss. Obviously I cannot confirm any of this; I can only base my opinion on what I’ve read.

The biggest things that have turned me off on the current product are the following: 

1.	The commentators acting like a bunch of ignorant, unfunny buffoons, insulting the audiences intelligence at every turn, and refusing to just call the action in the ring like they are witnessing a real live sporting event.
2.	The booking and presentation of heels and baby faces. Heels need to cheat, heels need to really try and strip away everything likeable about their characters, and heels need to be booked and presented as a legitimate threat to the baby face. The baby face needs to be booked as NATURALLY as possible. This requires the wrestler to really know their character, but it’s 100% necessary. The crowd has to feel an organic connection with the baby face and they can’t do that if he’s doing anything perceived as “fake” or out of character.
3.	Wrestlers being forced to wrestle with a restrictor plate. Instead of doing which moves they want, and wrestling a style of match they want, they are boxed in and forced to do the same 5-6 moves and wrestle the same cookie cutter style of match most times.
4.	Promos being scripted for wrestlers in voices that are so obviously not their own.
5.	Key plot points and storylines being shit canned at the drop of the hat never to be mentioned or followed through with.
6.	Every Raw following almost the exact same formula: long opening promo, several filler matches including the token Usos match, tons and tons of recaps and replays of things that just happened, night ends with a big 6 or 8 man tag match with the baby faces winning.
7.	As a continuation of the previous point, Raw being 3 unbearable hours.
8.	No consistent attention paid to developing the tag team division.
9.	Stop-start pushes.
10.	The entire, over sterilized, over produced, feel of the show. We will call this the “production” of the show. How everything always looks the same, the annoying as hell shaking camera, the cameras deliberately not showing a wrestler to try and fool us into thinking “HE HIT THAT MOVE OUT OF NOWHERE!!”

Now, that’s just me. I am quite positive everyone does not have the same qualms that I do with the current product. Also, I have quite a few more issues with the current WWE product I just listed those as the top 10 most pressing problems, coincidentally they are also all problems that can be fixed relatively easily and without compromising any of your targeted fan demographics.

Let’s put aside Hunter as person for 1 second. Neither of us knows him personally. Granted there is A LOT of info to be found that backs up certain aspects of Hunter’s personality, but unless you really know someone, you can’t possibly say with any certainty what their motivations are for saying what they say. For me, I look at all those issues I just posted and say “Those are ALL almost 100% Vince McMahon or Kevin Dunn induced problems”. I’d like to ask, if Vince and Kevin were not around, what would be the reason to continue doing things this way? The WWE hasn't ALWAYS operated this way. It wasn't THAT long ago that the commentators called the action in the ring, that heels were allowed to cheat, that guys like Benoit and Regal could go out and wrestle a gritty hard fought match on the mat, that wrestlers did bullet point style promos, etc. Hunter is still a wrestler at heart, and what’s more he still grew up as a fan of wrestling. He can’t possibly make things worse than what Vince and Kevin have. While NXT’s primary purpose is to train new talent, it’s also being used as Hunter’s proving ground. Vince had planned back in 2000 for Shane to take over ECW and use it as his training for whenever he took over for Vince, it’s not farfetched to think that the same thing is occurring with Hunter in NXT. 

Last thing, what about NXT would not appeal to all the people that currently watch Raw/Smackdown? It’s still the WWE. It’s not like it’s 1996 ECW or anything. It’s still 100% PG, it still has fun characters and entertaining segments, it still has the women wrestlers, it has big guys, small guys, baby faces the crowd loves, and heels the crowd hates. When Hunter said something to the effect of “the NXT formula wouldn't work for Raw or Smackdown” I think he was really just covering Vince’s ass. I can’t prove it obviously but that’s just my hunch. Austin had just raved about how great and refreshing NXT was, the unsaid thing was that it was so refreshing because Raw and Smackdown have been so stale lately.
So Seabs and Bubz, I guess I’m just saying this; it’ll be next to impossible for Hunter to be worse than Vince and Kevin Dunn. So why wouldn't you be in favor of him getting a shot at running the show?


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I read an article last night on 411Mania that said Reigns' loss to Big Show on RAW was his FIRST ever pinfall loss in singles competition since being called up to the main roster. He's lost by DQ or some other nonsense along the way, but his last pinfall loss was against LEO KRUGER in 2012!
> 
> Is that crazy or what? Hadn't even noticed. I'm very interested to see how they're going to work the Bryan match at Fast Lane and who the hell is gonna win it (if either of them). I have a feeling something screwy will happen and we get another 3-way, which is completely fine with me.


Not crazy at all. How many singles matches has he actually had on tv since his debut match on the main roster at TLC 2012?


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Couple of things first:

1) My post was actually a C&P and in no way directed at anyone specifically in here.

2) I never said I was against Hunter taking over from Vince right now or that the product wouldn't improve under Hunter.

Some things probably will get better but in it's simplest form the product will still be the same. Ok the Women get more serious focus for example but Hunter's philosophy on pro wrestling isn't all that different from Vince's. Reigns is Hunter's guy and the one he picked over Rollins and Ambrose for a reason and it's the same reason Vince chose Cena and Batista over Benoit, etc. People on here are lapping up everything he said (which was his intention and getting that set of fans on his side is important to him and with good reason) and acting like once Hunter takes over they'll get the product they want. They won't. Raw under Hunter won't be NXT. If you actually pay any attention to what he said you'll know that NXT is booked for a different audience than what Raw is booked to cater too. That's the same audience that were watching the interview and Hunter knew this as you can see by how he banged on about the different demographics and their variations in demand. The people watching the Network want this so we can give them this. They watch Raw too but this other half also watch Raw and want this so we then have to give this other half of the audience what they want as well. Sadly what they think the Raw exclusive viewer wants is what the NXT/Network viewer doesn't want. That's why people thinking NXT is a clear indication of what Raw will be under Hunter are fooling themselves. Sure elements of it will make their way to Hunter's Raw but not the philosophy of the show which is catered towards the Network fan and involves pushing all the Indy guys as the top guys on the show. 

Hunter has always been politics and image perception. Anyone with eyes and ears should see that he's all about getting the smart fans on his side and clamours to be liked by everyone. That's what the interview was and in credit to him it worked tremendously well for him. All I'm saying is don't take everything said on face value and look at why he said what he said and then see why deciding that Hunter will save the product is getting ahead of yourself. Will it get better? It's be an impressive feat if it didn't. Will it change enough to be a good product? There's just not enough to indicate that besides Hunter saying the right things in an interview that all the smart fans were watching.*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Team CLEXA said:


> *Couple of things first:
> 
> 1) My post was actually a C&P and in no way directed at anyone specifically in here.
> 
> ...



All very fair points. I was actually asking you with that long drawn out post what your actual stance is. I'm in 100% agreement with you that it would be very difficult for Hunter to make things worse. In fact if I were forced to bet on it, I would guess the show would be better with Hunter in charge instead of Vince. Now, would it be better by just a marginal amount or would it be better by enough to make it *gasp* an actual quality wrestling show? You got me, there really isn't anyway to tell.

I just wanted you to know I'm not naive (not that you claimed I was or anything) nor am I fooling myself into thinking Hunter is some sort of savior. Far from it. I'm just so anti what Vince and Kevin Dunn have done with the shows that I'm excited about the prospect of ANYONE with any modicum of wrestling sense taking over the reigns. There is no evidence that Hunter will spark some new golden era of wrestling, but there is a decent amount of evidence I THINK to show that a few small improvements here and there can go a long ways to making Raw and Smackdown atleast watchable, if not wholly enjoyable.

I also stand by my statement that, irregardless of what Hunter said in that interview or of what his true intentions are, there doesn't seem to me to be any plausible reason why Raw and Smackdown couldn't be booked and presented in a similar manner as NXT is, just on a larger scale. It's not like what they are doing down there is cutting edge or that they produce any sort of controversial content. It's actually pretty old fashioned. NXT has the hero with the championship who the show is built around in Sami Zayn. NXT gives time to the women wrestlers and gives them a chance to actually work decent to good wrestling matches. It has storylines for both the main event, the tag division, the women's division, and then usually 1 more midcard type feud. I don't see why fans of all ages wouldn't enjoy it. Of course, NXT enjoys a huge advantage by only needing to produce 1 hour of content a week and then 1 big PPV style special every 2-3 months. That keeps the talent fresh and keeps things exciting. BUT, the main roster also has about 3-4 times more wrestlers on the roster, all they would have to do is use some more of the guys in the back in order to keep all the main guys fresh and from going stale.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Yeah I agree that style of booking would work on the main roster. The only unproven aspect is will it draw sufficiently. To me though that comes down to having the right guys. The booking helps the guys a lot but at the end of the day the guys have to have that something unique and special to draw a mainstream crowd in that you can't really teach. You can nurture it and showcase it better but it can't be created. *


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

BREEaments03 said:


> Not crazy at all. How many singles matches has he actually had on tv since his debut match on the main roster at TLC 2012?


I have no idea but that made me rack my brain for a while. The guy has went over CM Punk, Randy Orton, Kane, Seth Rollins, Del Rio, etc. Big Show of all people gives him his first loss in a meaningless match in a never-ending series. :lol


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't know if that's better or worse than Big Show being Lesnar's first loss. Or was it Shawn Stasiak? I remember Lesnar losing some tag match and then he killed Shawn Stasiak after. Cal was laughing about it a lot in his review of that match.

I think I finally reached my breaking point with the company. I'm afraid that I might not even care about a potential Bryan/Lesnar match. Good thing is that I got my six year old brother to become a Sami Zayn fan. That contract signing last week sold it for him.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

I'm on my phone now so can't really type out a lengthy response to TRW but I definitely agree the product would improve, I just don't think it would be by that big a margin like the quality gap between nxt and the current main product. Like Seabs said I'm pretty sure Trips and Vince have very similar visions of what the main product is and what it needs to be. I definitely think he is more 'in touch' I guess though and would maybe change little things that would mount up to an overall better product but it's impossible to say due to lack of evidence. Seabs covered everything in his post I think and put it better than I probably would have anyway in regards to the way nxt is booked and why compared to the main shows. It's impossible to tell at this point so my main gripe was with people being absolutely certain the product will be amazing and Hunter is some kind of saviour of the business.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

For those of you who are fans of Sheamus/Morrison TLC 2010 (which is all of us), check out tonight's Lucha Underground main event. Another quality performance from Morrison in similar fashion to that match.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Yeah I didn't come away from the HHH interview going "WOW, things are going to be SO much better when he's in charge" at all. Triple H is better at targeting the demo with NXT, but he said it himself: the main product caters to everyone (even though it's focus should be on the 18-34 demo.). He was still a Roman Reigns supporter from the start, apparently.

He gave the "safe" answer in regards to Punk as well, but that was complete bullshit and you could just sense it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> For those of you who are fans of Sheamus/Morrison TLC 2010 (which is all of us), check out tonight's Lucha Underground main event. Another quality performance from Morrison in similar fashion to that match.


Just watched the episode myself. I wouldn't go as far as to comparing it to that Ladder match in terms of quality, but it indeed was a good Morrison performance down the stretch. CAGE though, man that dude is a machine.  Sweet match for sure. How bout that ending to the show though, eh? :mark:

I guess I should stay relevant to WWE somehow though. Uhh.... The Brass Ring Club! Love that tag team name and hope to god they stick with it.

Oh and I caught the last half of NXT. Itami/Balor was good but had several restholds. Match came together nicely towards the end and that mule kick Itami took looked AWESOME.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> 3. He seems to favor not scripting promos and wants to just coach guys up, give them some bullet points, and then let them go do their thing.


See, this is why I think that people are just taking what they want from HHH's interview, which is exactly why he approached it the way that he did. He's shrewd, but I prefer Vince, because at least I don't feel that he's trying to work people over.

I found the H interview disappointing, because I felt it was a whole lot of saying nothing. It was the most non-revelatory thing ever, which was a real disappointment. Even if we were upset about the things that Vince said, at least I feel that we got insight into his thinking. It was more entertaining too. I swear, in the podcast, H would go on for ten minutes straight about a subject, without saying _anything_. It was like some of his promos.

He didn't come off badly, but he didn't reveal a thing either. It's like he would point out everything that we already know, with NO solution. He's just like "Reigns gets cheered in nonsmark cities, and booed in smark cities." No shit. So what are you going to do about it? Do you feel like that's ok? Is it unimportant because you believe that casuals spend more money? And if you feel that way, why do you feel that way, since you yourself said that most of the people who buy the network are hardcores?

There was just nothing there. I'm actually shocked that people feel that it had any insight at all.

The promo example is absolutely perfect. First of all, I don't buy that it simply evolved from some guys wanting to be scripted. Bullshit. If the stories about Steph being pissed at Dusty Freakin' Rhodes for going off script (which I totally believe, because you can see it threw her off) are to be believed, that shows you right there that the real issue is that they don't like relinquishing control. 

H never said "I don't like the scripting, because I feel that it stifles some of the wrestlers' natural creativity." He never gave any indication that he feels like it's a huge problem. He wants to give you that impression because he knows the smarks want to hear it, but then he never actually just owns it.

He talks about what he does in NXT, but that is not taking the step of saying "I'd like to see that in the WWE." He stated himself that he feels that NXT is different, because more of the hardcore fans watch it. 

He talks about how all different demographics watch WWE....again, so what's your point? He never actually made a point about what you do with that. It was all just stating the obvious. This is also on Austin, because Austin should have pressed him with "well, Bryan apparently is appealing to all demographics, so why don't you push him?"

There was a lot of covering going on by H. Cleverly talking about how Bryan didn't want to go over at certain times (which probably was just something stupid like RAW ending chaos segments), but completely ignored why they chose Batista over him. Which btw, I don't see how anyone can believe that Batista vs. Orton was simply a Vince decision. I really don't know why everyone blames Vince for everything, other than the fact that H obviously has a great PR outreach, and knows what to take credit for. 

I thought the Grantland article was much more revealing, especially as far as a glimpse into H's psyche. He shrewdly talks about how wrestlers used to work wrestling reporters, but what was brilliant about that, was that it went over people's heads that H was working the reporter & everyone by pointing that out. He was basically saying "pay no attention to what is written about me, because..." 

He's a smart dude, which is exactly why he said a whole lot of nothing, with no real solutions, yet people are now feening for him to take over the company. Hats off.

The ending was the best part for me. I loved the word association segment, as well as that short little bit of he and Austin talking shop. I wish the whole interview was like that, since I didn't really learn anything otherwise.


ETA: Reigns works hard. That's really all you have to say about why the company is handing the ball over to him? And if H feels that Reigns _shouldn't_ be handed the ball, then you'd think he'd at least talk up the other guys in a more effusive way. He didn't. He was riding the fence and literally said nothing. The more I think about it, the more in awe I am that he has people thinking that he showed _anything_ as far as running the future company in this interview.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

......Or I could have just read & liked this post (hadn't gotten to it yet) before I responded:



Team CLEXA said:


> *Chuckling at everyone thinking the product will be so much better when Hunter takes over based on nothing other than Hunter saying the right things to the right people because he's obsessed with how he comes across and everyone liking him. Mr. "I ain't got beef with anyone". Basically said NXT is booked to cater to the Smark audience because that's who watches the Network (and this podcast) and then also said that they don't make up the whole of their overall audience so I have no idea why people think the NXT philosophy catered towards a specific segment of their audience is what the main product catered towards all of their audience is going to be like when Hunter has the final say. Yeah some things might get better but the philosophy isn't changing. He's never catering towards the demand from most people reading this and trying to present himself as so different to Vince is just an image enhancing tactic catered towards the audience watching the Network who he himself identified as the more hardcore fans. He knows Raw going to 2 hours is what that audience wants to hear but it won't happen because of the out he opened for himself of the financial gains of the 3rd hour.
> 
> There's a ton of inconsistencies in what he says too which come across from trying to please the audience who will be watching this (not that this is wrong, it would be silly to do otherwise). For example, he backs out of saying Reigns isn't ready and then later talks about how it worked out better for him to have his 1996 push delayed because he wasn't ready at the time. The Punk stuff is bullshit and again him doing his best to not annoy a certain segment of the audience. They have totally different philosophies on Wrestling and Punk would be a terrible person to put too much stock in for the reasons that were proved true last year so Hunter was never going to get behind him as the company guy. But instead of saying they had their differences and didn't see eye to eye on most things he was again in image enhancement mode.
> 
> ...


We both are of similar mind, especially about the NFL playbook part. This is exactly why it galls me that everyone holds up NXT as a great legacy from H. That line in Grantland creeped me out, when he said that the dream was for all new signees to come through NXT first. He doubled down on that during the Austin podcast. It is no different from Vince wanting everything scripted. It's horrible for the business, for exactly the reasons you state, and the fact that people don't see this inflexibility as a negative thing, is surprising to me. 


As an aside, someone made a great point that guys like Show and Henry probably never would have even made it through NXT, when it comes to them judging on physical drills and like that.

Somehow, wrestling had tons of superstars who knew what they were doing before NXT existed. It would remain the same without it, but now we're led to believe it's a necessity.

I also totally believe the tons of accusations against one of the principals down there (tons of stuff is posted throughout the thread, but it starts with Ziggler's brother), and the fact that H still keeps the dude around despite all of that, says a lot.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Guy, y u no talking bout NXT? KENTA VS DEVITT YALL ZOMBIUHGBADGBUGB 

Nah, don't worry, Balor/Itami was good. Totally looked like they were holding back, and there were LOTS of rest holds (smart booking tho, neither one of them should've gotten a long control segment), but at its hottest moments, it was a beautiful FIGHT as it should've been. Mat wrestling counter fests always get me :mark:, and DAT NASTY DROPKICK BY BALOR.

Neville/Corbin was good too. Corbin's first chance to truly shine, and he didn't SHINE, he played his part quite well. He still needs some obvious work, but if he keeps further progressing, he's gonna do well. And I enjoyed Bayley/Becky a good bunch too. Best part of the show was the Zayn/Owens video tho. Incredible. Fun show overall.

Now gimme Takeover - CROWE :mark: NEVILLE/BALOR :mark: ZAYN/OWENS :mark:


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## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Team CLEXA said:


> *Chuckling at everyone thinking the product will be so much better when Hunter takes over based on nothing other than Hunter saying the right things to the right people because he's obsessed with how he comes across and everyone liking him. Mr. "I ain't got beef with anyone". Basically said NXT is booked to cater to the Smark audience because that's who watches the Network (and this podcast) and then also said that they don't make up the whole of their overall audience so I have no idea why people think the NXT philosophy catered towards a specific segment of their audience is what the main product catered towards all of their audience is going to be like when Hunter has the final say. Yeah some things might get better but the philosophy isn't changing. He's never catering towards the demand from most people reading this and trying to present himself as so different to Vince is just an image enhancing tactic catered towards the audience watching the Network who he himself identified as the more hardcore fans. He knows Raw going to 2 hours is what that audience wants to hear but it won't happen because of the out he opened for himself of the financial gains of the 3rd hour.
> 
> There's a ton of inconsistencies in what he says too which come across from trying to please the audience who will be watching this (not that this is wrong, it would be silly to do otherwise). For example, he backs out of saying Reigns isn't ready and then later talks about how it worked out better for him to have his 1996 push delayed because he wasn't ready at the time. The Punk stuff is bullshit and again him doing his best to not annoy a certain segment of the audience. They have totally different philosophies on Wrestling and Punk would be a terrible person to put too much stock in for the reasons that were proved true last year so Hunter was never going to get behind him as the company guy. But instead of saying they had their differences and didn't see eye to eye on most things he was again in image enhancement mode.
> 
> ...


The most glaring example of H talking out of both sides of his mouth (though certainly not the most consequential) was his changes to Raw: He first says he wants to go to 2 hrs. When Austin presses him about another change he'd like to see, H responds with "I'd like to give more time to the women." :jawdrop

You can't have more and less time, Hunter. 

The Patriots thing was funny, because as a guy who watches the holy-hell out of football and sports generally (and have been a massive Pats fan since '95 - still reppin' my Bledsoe jersey!), the genius of Belichick is that he's tailored his "playbook" around his talent, instead of cramming a round peg in a square hole, like most coaches do. 

Re: NXT. Is it a damn good show? Yes. HOWEVER, they have probably the best roster in the business right now. There's so much talent in FL right now, and if NXT was anything less than damn good, it would be a colossal fail, imo. You've got guys who were at or near the top of the card in what, 4-5 different promotions? If you can't use that talent to make a great show, gtfo of the wrestling business. 

Re: Chyna - It's not like Jimmy Snuka killed a prostitute :lol

All said, I still like H, but whereas Vince was forthright to a fault, Hunter seemed to be more of a chameleon in his answers. Still, the WWE Straight Shooting series is still quite entertaining to say the least.


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## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

no way does nxt have a better roster than raw


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> no way does nxt have a better roster than raw


Best talent on the main roster:

Daniel Bryan
Brock Lesnar
Cesaro
Seth Rollins
Dean Ambrose
Bray Wyatt
Luke Harper
John Cena
Goldust
Stardust
Rusev
Damian Sandow
Randy Orton
Dolph Ziggler
Sheamus
Roman Reigns

Best talent on NXT:

Sami Zayn
Kevin Owens
Adrian Neville
Finn Balor
Hideo Itami
Solomon Crowe
Sasha Banks
Charlotte
Tyson Kidd
Kalisto

The only reason it's as close as it is for me is because Sami Zayn is so fucking amazing and talented it's downright silly. Kevin Owens/Steen is the man as well. But yea I'd say the main roster has more pure talent in a landslide. BUT, NXT undoubtedly makes far better use of their talent than Raw/Smackdown. Cesaro, Luke Harper, Dean Ambrose, and Bray Wyatt are all absolutely incredible talents but they just don't have anywhere near the value they should have because they've been booked into oblivion.


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## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'd throw Barrett and Bayley in both lists (biased mark I am, fuck you :side, and maybe remove Reigns (while I'm nowhere close to hating him, his full potential has yet to come out imho, though w/some work he'll get there), but yeah Chris, you're pretty much spot on there.

Though honestly, while the main roster has more pure talent, NXT has the BEST one. Granted, Bryan's the best in the world, but Sami and Owens are a close #2 and #3 , and then guys like Crowe, Balor and Neville are up there too. Plus, the women's roster on NXT is INFINITY times better than the Bellas Show aka main roster Divas. Paige is probably the only one I do like atm (AJ's gone), and even she is overrated imo. I'd say Emma too, but she's down on NXT again, so yeah. 

Not to put the main roster down tho - BORK, Ambrose, Barrett, Cesaro, Bray, Harper, Rollins, Orton, Ziggler... damn, WWE's roster in terms of pure talent is probably among the best ages it's ever been. Too fucking bad the monkeys in creative don't understand jackshit of how to properly use it.


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## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

LilOlMe said:


> See, this is why I think that people are just taking what they want from HHH's interview, which is exactly why he approached it the way that he did. He's shrewd, but I prefer Vince, because at least I don't feel that he's trying to work people over.
> 
> I found the H interview disappointing, because I felt it was a whole lot of saying nothing. It was the most non-revelatory thing ever, which was a real disappointment. Even if we were upset about the things that Vince said, at least I feel that we got insight into his thinking. It was more entertaining too. I swear, in the podcast, H would go on for ten minutes straight about a subject, without saying _anything_. It was like some of his promos.
> 
> ...


*The odd part about the scripted nature is he actually argues in favour of it on the main roster and literally says they don't trust the guys to be unscripted. It again goes back to the major discrepancy between NXT and Raw and just how good of an actual developmental base NXT is. I can only assume the more lax scripting of promos there is for them to find their characters quicker and better and then on the main roster they know their character and then have to script every word of what that character would say. Again though people seem to have taken that despite Hunter saying why they script everything on Raw and why he agrees with it, because it's less scripted in NXT that will also be the case on Hunter's Raw.*


LilOlMe said:


> ......Or I could have just read & liked this post (hadn't gotten to it yet) before I responded:
> 
> 
> We both are of similar mind, especially about the NFL playbook part. This is exactly why it galls me that everyone holds up NXT as a great legacy from H. That line in Grantland creeped me out, when he said that the dream was for all new signees to come through NXT first. He doubled down on that during the Austin podcast. It is no different from Vince wanting everything scripted. It's horrible for the business, for exactly the reasons you state, and the fact that people don't see this inflexibility as a negative thing, is surprising to me.
> ...


*Another worth mentioning after both this and Vince's podcasts is that they confirmed a lot of the unconfirmed backstage reports on things. Cesaro, why they script so much, Hunter being a master politician, etc. So that sort of thing I wouldn't be shocked to be true. The issue with WWE monopolising the industry for themselves is they can do whatever they want and pretty much get away with it. The only times they won't is when they get on the wrong end of someone has some legit star power that can be transferred somewhere meaningful outside of WWE. It's basically "if you don't like how we do things here than go somewhere else and see how well that works out for you". It sucks but if the distasteful developmental tales are true (they're at worst very logical and fit the context) then nothing bar themselves will stop it. It's the same with working how they want you to work. Hunter mentioned certain Indy guys came in and wanted to be something else (doesn't take a wise fan to decipher Chris Hero from that part) and look at what happened to them. It's 100% our way or no way unless you come in with some serious star power and that a) barely exists outside WWE in the wrestling industry now and b) they can afford to turn the ones who challenge them away. 

The everything will be the exact same by the end of the decade thing is another massively overlooked thing that nobody is taking into the account it should be in when mentioning the future under Hunter. Yeah there's guys who can do something difference but them guys will be coming in less and less and even them guys are being told do it our way or no way. It's kinda already at this stage where every WWE match is so formulaic and same-y but by 2020 there won't even by guys who know any different coming through and that just isn't a good business model at all. What if that way of wrestling fails to get over and starts turning fans away after so long? Then what? They won't be able to say to the 2020 developmental graduates to work a different style because by Hunter's own vocal aspirations they'll only be trained from day 1 to know their way and no other way. So as a fan you better like how we wrestle matches or sod off which is something to really look forward to when you consider all of the fundamental issues with the current wrestling style they employ. It's a terrible business move too because it depletes your overall potential audience and will drive existing ones away. It all comes down to them being so self-concious about their and WWE's image to people outside of the wrestling industry that they have to ensure that they know every micro detail of everything that goes out there. You go into business for yourself and take a segment in an ever so slightly different direction then expect to face the punishments and be deterred from ever considering it again. *


JustJoel said:


> The most glaring example of H talking out of both sides of his mouth (though certainly not the most consequential) was his changes to Raw: He first says he wants to go to 2 hrs. When Austin presses him about another change he'd like to see, H responds with "I'd like to give more time to the women." :jawdrop
> 
> You can't have more and less time, Hunter.
> 
> ...





Hohenheim of Light said:


> no way does nxt have a better roster than raw


*If you consider the size of the roster required then it's a decent argument. Obviously Raw has more quality because it needs more quality because it has more TV to fill. The better argument is which has the better roster per hour (or 2 hours) of TV and then it might just be NXT. NXT guys also aren't as exposed either and have a ton more things playing in their favours.

Will NXT still be great when the big Indy names all leave is another good point too. NXT works now because of the talent. Give the same good booking to guys who can't pull magic out every week like Zayn and co. and do you have the same interest? Doubt it. *


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

http://instagram.com/p/yvKjYFIhx-/

Meh just thought I should share this since there's nowhere to really put it. You don't really see Rock talk about his matches on twitter or anything. Pretty cool.


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## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

JustJoel said:


> The most glaring example of H talking out of both sides of his mouth (though certainly not the most consequential) was his changes to Raw: He first says he wants to go to 2 hrs.


I noticed him talking out of both sides of his mouth regarding that, for different reasons. First he says that he wants RAW to be two hours, but then when Austin asks if that can actually happen, he talks about financial people. So again, not actually following through with "this is how it'd be under me." Yet people creamed over it.

Before he even made that financial comment, I thought that the 2 hr thing was incredibly, incredibly, naive, and not business smart at all. So right there, that was a red flag about H potentially running the company in the future, because as much as people here may prefer 2 hours creatively, it makes no sense business-wise. The WWE makes a lot more money by adding that third hour. This is an example of why the investors trust Vince more than H, if those stories are true that they do.

So if we accept the fact that it probably isn't financially feasible to cut that 3rd hour, which H seems to, since he later added on that comment about the financial people....what are you going to do to make the third hour more enjoyable, H? You can't just say "it's hard", which is all that he did, over and over, without offering any solutions, other than to throw out some idealistic solution of just cutting it, which he later basically admits would be hard to do (also, uh, maybe he shouldn't be skipping -- or excuse me, "avoiding", in his words -- those financial meetings, if he plans on taking over the company some day). Why do people not see that this inspires no faith in his abilities, if he can't even offer up solutions to things that he knows are problem? Or at the very least, how was any of that conversation at all informative, as to his future moves? He just said "it's hard." We know.



KingLobos said:


> http://instagram.com/p/yvKjYFIhx-/
> 
> Meh just thought I should share this since there's nowhere to really put it. You don't really see Rock talk about his matches on twitter or anything. Pretty cool.


LOL, Elvis sideburns.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I am too lazy to read through all the text written here but all I can say is a retarded monkey is capable of putting on a better show than Vince McMahon at this point. Triple H will be heavenly compared to Vince regardless of any contradictions or bad judgment of talent. (he likes Reigns too, so unfortunately, he's far from perfect)

Now onto March in 2000 and last match was Benoit vs Rock inside a steel cage. Pretty solid work by both men although Rock overcoming the odds in such fashion was kinda funny.

Other matches I watched recently include Jeff Hardy vs Umaga inside a steel cage due to lilolme's recommendation and it was a fun match with good performances from both men. I'll promise Yeah1993 to get through with their GAB match too before my free subscription runs out too.

Out of interest, checked out RR 1994 match between Yokozuna and Undertaker. All I can say is this match is a grade-A DUD. There's hardly 5 minutes of action between the two men and it's more of a handicap 10 on 1 fight between Taker and everyone else in the ring not named Yoko for the remaining ten or so minutes. Just didn't like it at all. That's on top of the Bret match from 1996 boring me to the point I had to watch it in three separate sittings. :lol


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I think the Rumble '94 Casket match will always be one of those love/hate matches. I don't rate it highly or anything, but I've always liked the match. It's like 5 minutes of a big fatty slugfest with chairs and ddts and shit, and then all hell breaks loose and one of the most iconic moments of my childhood wrestling memory occur. I'll never forget the green smoke coming out of the lantern as the "power" is lost from Bearer and Taker, plus the postmatch stuff is just godly. I never get sick of watching that video of Taker speaking from the casket. LOVE IT


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

All I want is for whoever put their hands on 2013 and shifted the wrestling style to come back. 

Anyway, who is Brass Ring Club; Cesaro/Kidd? Is this more obnoxious meta booking or them no longer giving a fuck?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I feel like I just HAVE to say this: what Corey feels regarding Taker/Yoko Casket, I feel for Taker/HHH HIAC. One of my personal favorite moments to witness as a wrestling fan. Why that match is so Goddamn misunderstood around here is beyond me, but one thing's for sure: I'll NEVER hate it 

And the Brass Club Ring is, iirc, Cesaro, Kidd and Adam Rose.


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## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

ATF said:


> And the Brass Club Ring is, iirc, *Cesaro*, Kidd and *Adam Rose*.


They... they didn't, did they?


EDIT 


> The Brass Ring Club (abbreviated to BRC) is a villainous professional wrestling faction in World Wrestling Entertainment (WWE) led by Adam Rose.


wow


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I think some of you are making a mountain out of a mole hill with regards to some of the things HHH said on the podcast. I mean, he was asked what he'd like to change about Raw and said he'd like it if Raw went back to 2 hours because the 3rd hour is really hard to write. That's just him giving a quick opinion on the matter. It doesn't mean he's going to throw away all the advertising money they get from hour 3 without looking at all the financials if he actually had the power to make it happen. It was just a quick comment at the end of the podcast with a few minutes to spare yet somehow it's a direct indication of how he would run the entire company to some of you. Talk about nitpicking. 

In other news, Balor/Itami on NXT was wonderful. That dropkick into the turnbuckle at the end was just :banderas. I'm really looking forward to Takeover Rival next week and while Balor/Neville and Zayn/Owens should be standout bouts, I'm also anxious to see the women's fatal 4 way too. I feel like the womens division in NXT is a never ending story but it has been written and executed so perfectly that I've enjoyed every damn second. Should be a great show and maybe after we should send Hunter a fruit basket because everybody will love him again when it's over.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Oh, good, Cesaro is an underling of dancing bunny manfriend now. Oh, good. No, no, good, really. This can only be good.


drop fucking dead


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rewatched Balor/Itami and it went up this time, going up to a drop dead ***1/2 and potential ***3/4 in a great day. Yes, the rest holds are still there and they decrease part of the excitement, but they work perfectly in story context, in the way that them knowing each other so well will lead them to use any kind of resource to keep the other one down. Plus, that dropkick is still NASTY. Can't wait to see where this goes when Itami works as a full blown heel tho. Balor can't get anywhere near a heel turn atp, and Itami has proven he's better off as an ass-kicker heel (if the Danielson and Low Ki stuff isn't proof enough), so yeah, those philosophies would prove for something special.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Woah woah woah, guys. Brass Ring Club should just be for Cesaro & Kidd. I haven't seen Adam Rose come out with them in a few weeks, so we don't have to include him in that, OK? Thanks.  And for those that don't quite follow the product anymore, Cesaro & Kidd have wins over The New Day and singles victories over the Usos, so they _should_ be in line for a tag title shot at Fast Lane. Seems to be heading in that direction.

Anything worth watching from Smackdown last night? The teaming of Ziggler & Ryback looked interesting and I guess the main event could be fun, but everything else looks to have been 3 minutes or less.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

I didn't mind Reigns vs Miz actually. Was a fun little match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The next, erm NXT PPV has come around quick. Cannot damn well wait for Zayn/Owens. :mark:

I'll check out Balor/Itami later. Don't really watch any NXT now it got took off Sky because of the Network, but looking forward to the PPV at least.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I wanna pick up the Bret Hart doc and the Mr. Perfect doc from WWE Shop's sale to day but shipping is ri-goddamn-diculous. $7 freaking dollars! For just 2 DVDs? It costs more to ship the DVD than the price of one. 

I don't know of I should get it or hope for the best that they're still in stock by the time some free shipping deal comes around. Hopefully, they don't mark up prices.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Been watching a bunch of 1995 Raw shows because... I dunno. I was trying to find SOMETHING to watch on the damn WWE Network and settled on that. Except I couldn't get through 10 minutes of an episode without it freezing and pausing and just not playing. So I got my discs out instead. Much easier!

Started on the Raw following King of the Ring, and I've just done watching the Raw before IYH 3, in September. There has been a TON of super fun shit so far. Every episode has at least one match I wanna sit through, and they do a hell of a job hyping up the next episode by announcing a big match for that. Yoko & Owen Vs Savio & Razor matches have been the highlight so far, along with HBK/Lawler, SID/HBK, SID/Bam Bam, Bret/Hakushi, 123-Kid/Razor, Bulldog/Razor and Men on a Mission/Yoko & Owen.

My disc for the last show I watched stopped though right before MoaM/Yoko & Owen which I was HYPED for lol. So, I resorted to the Network. In the end I went on XWT classics and downloaded the fucking show :lmao.

Final thoughts: Raw 1995 is super fun, even with Diesel as the champion, Mabel being KOTR and getting a short main event push, and some dumb as fuck gimmicks. Also, the WWE Network can fuck off. I can stream perfectly fine on any other video streaming site except for this one. It's quicker and easier for me to get out a disc from my collection and watch the show instead. And since I own much, much more than the Network has to offer, I simply cannot see any reason to pay for the damn thing. I will certainly be cancelling once my free month is up. I'll just continue to download PPV's and NXT Specials like always.

Now I'm off to find a download for IYH 3 cos I reeeeaaaally wanna see the tag team main event!!!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Don't ya call them NXT events as just 'specials'. They're fucking PPV's at the end of the day, and they deserve to be called such.

Which btw, didn't let you guys know but I rewatched all four previous ones, and yeah, still keep my original stance: R-Evolution > Arrival > Fatal 4-Way > Takeover. And even TO was fucking awesome anyway.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I prefer them to be called "specials" tbh. Because that's what they are. SPECIAL. PPV shows are as dull and generic and it gets.

Yey got a download for IYH 3. Wish I like, had a job or something when SilverVision were getting rid of their stock so I could have picked up all the IYH shows on DVD. Fuck Fremantle. Haven't said that in a while. FUCK THEM.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

They are special indeed, but they are far more worthy of the tagline of 'PPV' than the ACTUAL Main Roster PPV's, plus you have to subscribe the Network to watch them ('cept if you just do like I do )... so yeah. Technically the whole of NXT is a PPV by that logic 8*D

So.... when do you watch Cyber Sunday?


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Re: Best roster - The main roster has more quantity, but let's play a game: I will give you 5 men's singles, three women, and three tag teams. Also, one wild card to make 12 total picks. Do this for both brands. I'll take NXT. The men are perhaps stronger, but not by much. The women and tag teams aren't close at all though, imo. 

Re: Hunter - The financial bit contrasted with the two hours bit didn't ruffle my feathers - I saw it more as Haitch gonna Haitch. They were convenient, sound-good answers: telling fans what they want to hear. 

For me, it was to hear him say, back-to-back "We have too much time to fill-" "I wish we had more time to-" SMDH, you can't have more and less time! It's not possible; science says so. Though ultimately, Hunter has to choose words carefully - he can't go VKM Balls-A-Swinging, because he doesn't own the company. 

Reigns/Miz was good, fun. It's crazy to think that we, as an audience, have watched Miz become a pro wrestler/SE. From nothing to something - and I really think his current gimmick fits like cheddar on bread. And one of, if not the best, titantron entrance montage in the company - just him acting (or "acting":lol) in his various Hollywood roles - nothing to do with actually wrestling in a match. Always brings a smile to my face. Reigns was solid, though I wasn't keen on the right arm sell, since basically everything he did involved using it. That's a nitpick, but really strong opening to get the heat on, and solidly paced throughout. 

Balor/Itami was also good - Now please drop the MK robe - this was a guy who wore dog tags and came out to Rap music _in Japan_. Was a little dull at times for me (redundancy) but ended strong. I was expecting a little more, and yet still enjoyed it for what it was. They replayed that drop kick no less than 78 times. At least.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> They are special indeed, but they are far more worthy of the tagline of 'PPV' than the ACTUAL Main Roster PPV's, plus you have to subscribe the Network to watch them ('cept if you just do like I do )... so yeah. Technically the whole of NXT is a PPV by that logic 8*D
> 
> So.... when do you watch Cyber Sunday?


Cyber Whatnow?

Oh, that. Well I'm 3 matches down so far. Up to MVP/Kane. I've pretty much done 1 match a day with like... 3 days rest afterwards . Too busy watching some Raw 1995 atm :lmao.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

JustJoel said:


> Re: Best roster - The main roster has more quantity, but let's play a game: I will give you 5 men's singles, three women, and three tag teams. Also, one wild card to make 12 total picks. Do this for both brands. I'll take NXT. The men are perhaps stronger, but not by much. The women and tag teams aren't close at all though, imo.


Only 5!? Too little, but ok, here goes:

*Main roster:*

Daniel Bryan
Seth Rollins
Rusev
Randy Orton (picking him over Sheamus was so damn difficult)
John Cena (yeah I picked John Cena, the guy can still perform when it matters most)

Paige
AJ Lee
Nikki Bella (for something to look at)

Cesaro & Kidd
Harper & Rowan (can I just make my own tag teams or no?)
Goldust & Stardust (hard to pick against the Usos, but these two can work much better singles and vastly different styles of tags)

BROCK LESNAR

That means Ziggler, Ambrose, and Wyatt are left off of my main roster. Oh jeez...

*NXT:*

Sami Zayn
Kevin Owens 
Tyler Breeze
Solomon Crowe
Adrian Neville

Charlotte 
Sasha Banks
Bayley 

Balor & Itami
?????? (not a big fan of the Vaudevillians)
?????? (Lucha Dragons are just there to fly around)

Kalisto I guess?

The main roster is way deeper but that top 5 is close. NXT's top 5 is STACKED.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'll play that too:

MAIN ROSTER

Daniel Bryan
Dean Ambrose
Seth Rollins
Rusev
Luke Harper

Paige
AJ Lee
Brie Bella... I guess

The Usos
Brass Ring Club
The Dusts

BORK MOTHERFUCKING LASER

NXT

Sami Zayn
Finn Balor
Solomon Crowe
Adrian Neville
Tyler Breeze

Charlotte
Sasha Banks
Bayley

The Lucha Dragons
The Vaudevillains
Team THICK aka Blake & Murphy

KEVIN MOTHERFUCKING OWENS

And I still left out guys like Orton, Sheamus, Bray, Ziggler, Barrett, Cena, Kalisto and Itami.

There ya go. Main roster wins in tag terms, NXT SQUASHES in women terms, Lesnar is prob. slighly superior to Steen, and it's close for the 5 main players but I'm giving it to NXT for greater consistence. Bottom line: WWE's got tons of talent right now, but they're fucking fucking it up.


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

The robe makes Itami look like a goof. His entrance was genuinely badass before.

Also I shall play this game too.

Main Roster -

Barrett 
Wyatt
Ambrose
Cena
Bryan

Kidd and Cesaro
Goldust and Stardust
uh... can I just bring back the Prime Time Players?

Mizdow

NXT

Zayn
Kalisto
Crowe
Steen
Neville I suppose

Enzo and Cass
Itami and Balor 
The Vaudevillians (although I see tons more potential in English than Gotch)

Breeze I suppose 

Didn't do the divas because the main roster division is irrelevant so the NXT girls win automatically. I'd take the main roster at this point in time. As soon as Zayn gets the callup it's indisputable for me.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

:curry2


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> I wanna pick up the Bret Hart doc and the Mr. Perfect doc from WWE Shop's sale to day but shipping is ri-goddamn-diculous. $7 freaking dollars! For just 2 DVDs? It costs more to ship the DVD than the price of one.
> 
> I don't know of I should get it or hope for the best that they're still in stock by the time some free shipping deal comes around. Hopefully, they don't mark up prices.


I don't know if you'll read this in time, as the sale ends in about 30 minutes, but I'd take advantage of it right now. They rarely do free shipping AND a big sale like that, so I doubt you'll save money by waiting.

I took advantage of it, because even with the shipping cost, the Best of RAW & Smackdown 2014 can't be found elsewhere for as cheap. Plus, I threw in a couple of other things, so the shipping charge definitely felt worth it (it stays the same unless you add a ton of items).

The code WWEAFFDVD1 will get you an additional 20% off DVDs.

---------------------

Don't know if you guys have seen this, but it's one of the smartest posts I've ever seen on a board. It's a breakdown of what that person thinks the Bray vs. Undertaker feud represents:
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/raw/1...rtaker-full-circle-reaping-takers-career.html

The short end of it is that Taker started his career as the devil's protege, but then started using his powers for God's version of the eternal life. Bray is the devil, and is whom Taker broke away from the fold of.

It made me appreciate Bray's promos even more. When you view his recent RAW & Smackdown promos in this context, it all makes sense. I think that what the poster said, _is_ what Bray's going for. The WWE, OTOH, could fuck this up:











------------------------------------------

Speaking of Bray promos, this is still one of the best promos I've heard in a long, long, time. Shame that he's been doing much of his best stuff on Smackdown, where less amount of people watch:


----------



## Emotion Blur (May 7, 2012)

Just watched Bret/Backlund from Survivor Series 1994 for the first time. It's one of those unique little matches that I love during it, immediately after think it wasn't *that* good, then the next morning reflect on it and love it again. I thought the closing CFCW spot lasted way too long, but Owen, my god Owen, absolutely fantastic performance from a guy who wasn't even wrestling. It was such an amazing, dramatic moment when you had the split-screen of Bret who is absolutely helpless, putting over the Chickenwing as devastating, and Owen desperately trying to wake Bulldog (who unfortunately had to sell being out cold for what must've been a solid 15 minutes) and beg his parents to throw in the towel. It was storytelling at it's finest. Backlund looked like an absolute menace (and I loved his character at the time), Bret didn't look like a chump being locked in the CFCW because you were sold on the fact that once it's on, IT'S ON. And even the match itself was technically sound. I'm not usually one for overly technical, mat-work wrestling (at least when it dominates the match), but in the context of the story and the type of match it was, I think it was gripping to watch. 

Again, my only gripe is that I think the closing spot lasted too long. Bulldog had to sell for a comically long time. I don't know if Martha/Stu were just not reacting to their cue or what, but the time could've been halved and just as effective. While it put Backlund over HUGE to have the world champion trapped, it just seemed to give off the impression that it didn't hurt after so long (but even through all of that, Owen gave you the impression that Bret was going to be murdered). But you know what, I guess I'd rather have that spot last too long than not go long enough. Everyone was perfect in their role, match was great, story was great, ending was great. I have no complaints. No star rating for now because I want to give it another watch later.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Their Superstars match is excellent.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

It's a good post but there's absolutely now way WWE have thought that in depth about this feud.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ended up not getting the DVDs from WWE Shop. My budget is just too tight these days. Oh well, some other time.

Now I'm gotta play catch-up with NXT. I'm behind three episodes. Balor's entrance :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wow, nobody posted here in almost 24 hours :lol

Gotta bring up some talk... sooo... anybody remember the Crash TV madness that was the SD MITB match from 2012?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That was a fun match and overall good PPV. Punk/Bryan that night was spectacular. I even thought the main event was a good match, albeit terrible ending.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, I agree that was a good show. Punk/Bryan was superb, the MITB matches were fun (SD's was pretty sloppy and all over the place, but it was fun as shit so there's that) Sheamus/ADR was good in spite of the virtually dead crowd, hell I'll be the first to say that one of the tags that night (I think the PTP were involved or something) was enjoyable. It was far from a great show, and it wouldn't even make my top 5 of 2012 (WM, ER, TLC, NOC and OTL I have in better regard), but yeah.

It took all the way to 2014 to not get a good MITB PPV in all honesty. Aside from '12, 2010 was good, 2011 was great, 2013 was great. Sad to see the record broken, but yeah.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

So apparently there's another Punk/Joe match in ROH back in 2003. It was more so a storyline advancer for the immaculate Raven/Punk feud, but it's quite a sight to see.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Punk and Joe have wrestled each other a few other times I think but none are anywhere near as good as the trilogy they had for the ROH title. 

There's like a 10 minute match from PWG and I know they had a match in England and all I remember about it is that the ring was really small. I don't know if that's the same Punk/Joe match you were talking about.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

ROH talk reminds me - gotta return to my Steenerico thing. At any point I will.













Just not right now. :side:


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

I have not watched in awhile, but have their been any ****+ worthy matches yet this year in the 'E? I would imagine the Lesnar v. Cena v. Rollins was one, but I haven't checked to see yet.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Only ****+ match in WWE so far is Lesnar/Rollins/Cena for me. Bryan vs Rollins and Wyatt vs. Ziggler from Raw this week are right up there, too, but not four stars.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Willing to take a match request if i have it and it isn't online.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Req. for El Generico vs. Sami Callihan, EVOLVE 13


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Req. for El Generico vs. Sami Callihan, EVOLVE 13


Okey Dokey.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Itami has confirmed on Twitter that he'll be facing Tyler Breeze at Takeover: Rival next week. Unfortunately, it'll probably be a 5 minute squash.

Thought I'd post this in here so you folks can see what we probably won't see next week:

PAC vs. Prince Devitt (_New Japan Best of the Super Juniors 2012_)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xrkluv_09-prince-devitt-vs-pac-njpw-06-06-12_sport


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Itami has confirmed on Twitter that he'll be facing Tyler Breeze at Takeover: Rival next week. Unfortunately, it'll probably be a 5 minute squash.
> 
> Thought I'd post this in here so you folks can see what we probably won't see next week:
> 
> ...


Watched that match just yesterday. Sublime, highly recommended.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao I'm watching Teddy Hart and Tyson Kidd's debut match in ROH. CM Punk is on commentary and instead of calling this bad match, he spends ten minutes talking about how he can beat the shit out of Terry Funk. 

Speaking of 2003, where did Daniel Bryan disappear to that year? I don't recall him spending much time in any particular company.

EDIT: :lol And now Punk makes fun of Randy Orton calling himself the legend killer.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

:lmao :lmao :lmao

The Road to WM2000 hasn't been all that hot so far. Just confusing in the main event and the undercard matches aren't even set up yet. Benoit randomly attacked Jericho and Angle which I guess sets up their triple threat, Big Show should get the fuck out of the title scene (I guess they only kept him in it because it was in his contract to main event WM, so they put him in and got rid of him quickly when match time came) and the Hardys and Edge/Christian being clowned by Terri is an awful storyline that needs to fuck off too. I can only hope things get better after WM.

On the Network also rewatched some stuff in recent memory that I haven't been through in a long time. Specifically the most praised Punk vs Cena matches.

MITB - ★★★★ (Still a great match but last watch felt like something was missing. Just too much sloppiness that for some reason bothered me more this time than before and it was plodding in parts)

Night of Champions - ★★★¼ (Went even further down on my second watch since it aired. Match was very up and down with a minute or two of hot stretches with great back and forth action then it would go into 5 minutes of dull portions. Finisher spamming wasn't even as much of an issue this time. Just wasn't feeling the match all that much.)

Raw 2013 - ★★★¾ (A more polished version of MITB with less slow bits and a cool piledriver spot. Still doesn't have the significance of it and it only really gets great in the finishing stretch.)

It's weird because now I'm neutral towards Punk yet all three matches went down to a certain extent. But they aren't even the only ones. I rewatched Benoit vs Finlay from Judgment Day and it wasn't quite as exciting and enjoyable as every previous watch which has it now down to a solid ★★★★ as opposed to the ★★★★½. 

I don't know if it's a change in taste, but a lot of matches I've rewatched feel like they have went down slightly in quality and enjoyment.

EDIT: Also watched Bray vs Ziggler yesterday out of interest because while I'm not totally sold on Bray, something about him in singles action interests me. As for the match, I'd go ★★½, nothing special but not bad.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think the original Wrestlemania 2000 main event match was supposed to have Jericho in it. Undertaker may have been planned for it too. Lots of changes with that main event. Every week a new match was made.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Speaking of 2003, where did Daniel Bryan disappear to that year? I don't recall him spending much time in any particular company.


He was pretty all over the place IIRR (had those WWE TV tryouts, worked in Japan and England....might have done something with IWA-MS).

Are you watching 2003 ROH? Did you see Low Ki and Da Hit Squad squash Special K is the best match of all time??? Did you see the other Hit Squad match where Monsta Mack breaks a ladder by trying to jump off of it in the best spot of all time????? How much does Gabe suck ass at commentating????/


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Yeah1993 said:


> He was pretty all over the place IIRR (had those WWE TV tryouts, worked in Japan and England....might have done something with IWA-MS).


And it's not like he wasn't making frequent appearances in ROH, as that was the year of the _Epic Encounter_ classic with Paul London, the _Main Event Spectacles_ classic with A.J. Styles, and the underrated _Final Battle '03_ match with Jay Briscoe, as well as his first ROH matches with Samoa Joe early in the year.



Yeah1993 said:


> Are you watching 2003 ROH? Did you see Low Ki and Da Hit Squad squash Special K is the best match of all time??? Did you see the other Hit Squad match where Monsta Mack breaks a ladder by trying to jump off of it in the best spot of all time????? *How much does Gabe suck ass at commentating????/*


A lot... and yet, still somehow not as much as his broadcast partner at the time (I forget his name, possibly as a defense mechanism).


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> He was pretty all over the place IIRR (had those WWE TV tryouts, worked in Japan and England....might have done something with IWA-MS).
> 
> Are you watching 2003 ROH? Did you see Low Ki and Da Hit Squad squash Special K is the best match of all time??? Did you see the other Hit Squad match where Monsta Mack breaks a ladder by trying to jump off of it in the best spot of all time????? How much does Gabe suck ass at commentating????/


Indeed I am and indeed I did. Just finished Glory by Honor II. That Ki/Squad vs. Special K match was hilarious. That german suplex/fallaway slam/roundhouse kick combo :mark: I thought you hated everyone involved in that match, including Low Ki. Do you remember that one pointless moonsault spot that Jody Fleisch did which caused him to blow his knee out? Or when Jeff Hardy humiliated himself at Death Before Dishonor?

Gabe may not be very good at commentary, but I had a nightmare last week of Michael Cole commentating 1990s AJPW. Nothing will be as bad as hearing a man say that Kawada just wants to have fun :cole


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I mark for Monsta Mack and am a pretty big Low Ki fan (especially after watching him from 2001). Special K basically played their shtick perfectly and I got excited to see them every match and even backstage thing. Dan Maff I don't care for but I don't dislike either.

I remember Hardy getting ROASTED by the audience at the show he was on. They really didn't like him. Not sure about the Fleisch moonsault. This was 2+ years ago and I skipped a couple things here and there (one Stryker/Collyer was enough).

GBH 2 means you have Tradition Continues next. Looking at the card I only remember a couple matches. Pretty sure the main event is good, at least.

-----------
Cole would totally defecate on All Japan. 

Cole - "Lion suplex, ohhhhh my" 
Japanese Commentator - "*Tiger suplex desu"
Cole - "OHHHH MYYYYY"

I imagine him reading the names all fucked up too. Bet he'd pronounce "Taue" like "toe." "oh myyyyy, it's genchyro tenirayu." I need to stop. This is depressing me.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Fuck I can't stop imagining Cole commentating 90s AJPW matches now :lmao :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

LARRYHATO~!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Like "Larry, hat, oh"? :lmao


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Is the Network free this month or something? I might have to give it another go to watch something from 93 or 2010. Speaking of which, a 93 Raw I never posted but wrote up in November or something (whenever I was watching he stuff). With 2015 edits.

*Raw #5, 2/15/93 *(Raw didn’t air on Feb 8th for a reason I forget)

The Steiners squash a couple of terrible jobbers. I’ve never seen anybody with a worse reaction to getting caught in a full nelson than the guy who did. I don’t even know how to exemplify how it was bad, it just was. Either these two were ridiculously green or they were jobbers for reason. That full nelson at least resulted in a cool suplex. Steiners looked good, anyway.

Yoko squashes somebody too. You know I don’t tire of squash matches but they’re difficult to really talk about. Yoko has awesome palm-strikes, though. I forgot to mention that last time but he did a couple here and it reminded me. So THERE.

“Special Report” shows the Yoko/Duggan thing on SuperStars. They match up, Duggan knocks over Yoko (Yoko was perfect in building that up with wobbling, btw), celebrates, has salt thrown in his face, gets banzai dropped twice, once with the US flag on him. So, like, I am such a Jim Duggan fan. And it extends a little beyond my usual fandom of a wrestler, because I think this guy could have made a legit really great company ace. I watched his match with Vader from Starrcade 94 for the first time the other day (2015 edit – “the other day” is now months ago) and it was awesome and Duggan just works those matches like the best possible Hulk Hogan. He was just as good in this Yoko thing and people get behind him really quickly. Post-report promo by Yoko and Fuji. I’ve said this before and I will say this in the future – Yoko never blinks. 

Highlights of Giant Gonzales squashing three losers from SuperStars (or Mania or something). Well he squashed two and the other two sprinted to the back. Fantastic. I should check the full match out, it’s probably better than the Michaels/Jericho ladder match (2015 edit – this was a rib on Jawbreaker who for some reason likes that shitty ass match and we talked about it days before I wrote this). 

Running theme through the first half of the show that Savage’s microphone doesn’t properly work- and it is one of the most awesome thing I’ve ever heard on commentary. I started to wonder if it was purposefully done for a gag. You know those scenes on like cartoons or something where everybody’s having a big conversation and then one guy, maybe being held under a sewage drain, pops up out of the sewage drain for one quick sentence before getting pushed back under? No? Whatever. It was like that and it ruled. He eventually steals Rob Bartlett’s mic and taunts him for it (I have no idea who Barlett is, btw, but he’s been commentating Raw every week so far. I had to take two looks at him before realising he wasn’t another Michaels Hayes alias). 

16-man Battle royal, which was supposed to be 17 (or IS 15 and was supposed to be 16 IDR), because the wrestlers legit said they wouldn’t compete if Gonzales was in it. He obviously comes in at some point, but I was expecting it much earlier. There are three guys left, and they do a really stupid/awesome thing where Razor ducks through the ropes, waits for Tito and Tatanka to be eliminated by Gonzales, and then sneaks back in because Gonzales exits the ring by walking over all of the ropes. Or, he was never really in the match officially. See? Stupid/awesome. Rest of the battle royal was, OK, I guess. Hard to pay attention to these sometimes. Utterly terrific running theme of Kim Chee attacking Kamala once and then pussyfooting it. Then they wind up with a through-the-crowd chase and because there’s no phancy electric logos flying everywhere lighting everything up they have to put a spotlight on it. #fuckyourpresentation2014 (2015 edit - #fuckyourpresentationtoo2015 )

I am no Brutus Beefcake fan but this angle is great. Brutus came in last week and had talked about this and that and his (real life) facial injury, then challenged anybody in the WWF to his return match next (this) week. DiBiase accepts and Jimmy Hart is reluctant, talking Beefcake up as a serious threat, but you get the idea he’s being remorseful and a little worried that DiBiase will legit try to reinjure Brutus. Not long into the match after DiBiase and Brutus do the usual ‘shmuck heel gets embarrassed’ stuff (with some cool face-target-teases), IRS whops Beef in the back with his briefcase (Money Inc exist, btw). Then they set up to hit him in the face and Hart is trying to stop them and they shove him out of the way and nail Beefcake twice. Loading him onto the stretcher everybody’s covering his face and the commentators are like “I heard a bomb go off” and they stain the mat with what they’re calling blood but ultimately looks too magenta and this was GREAT. Hulk Hogan’s name is brought up constantly so this will be all about him by the time they book the Mania match, but the execution of this Raw main event was GREAT.
-----------

*Raw #6, 2/22/93*

I didn’t write about this after I watched it, so I’m doing it now based on results on wiki, and memory months after watching. Bare with me. 

Oh, that’s right, Bigelow squashes a pre-2-Hot Scott Taylor. I remember fans liking Bam Bam. 

Tatanka and the Nasty Boys faced Michaels and the Beverly Brothers. For FIFTEEN minutes. Slipped my mind. Was this the match where I thought Enos didn’t look good at all? It might. I remember that specifically because it’s the first time I think that’s happened. It might have been another match that I actually wrote about. It might be that I’m way off and confused him for the other Beverly. 

Crush beats Terry Taylor. Cool. Ah fuck this I need a real recap. HOLD ON.

Ohhhh yeah, there was a pre-recorded Hogan interview with Vince (if you’ll remember, he was brought up in this Brutus Beefcake thing. Try to keep up, loser). He says stuff like “when you’re an icon, people will dig stuff up and find out you’re human”. It was pretty cool, I think.

Oh, shit. This must’ve been the show where the commentators said they’ll get Arnold Schwarzenegger on the phone. Somebody calls in and does a horrible impression. I don’t know what the fuck that was supposed to be.

The Hogan return took fucking forever. They blab for like 300 minutes. I remember looking at the time of the show and going “wow I thought it’d be the last thing on the show”. It kinda was. The Mega McSupers are formed on this segment. The Hogan/Beefcake team I mean, whatever they’re called. I forgot everything else I had to say about this. 

Then the Undertaker/Skinner main event is announced. What? We have two minutes left. They use one and a half of that on slim jim and beefy action figures commercials. We cut to Skinner kicking the shit out of Taker before Vince says “aw yeah we’re out of time g’bye.” That was way worse than the end of the Vader/Austin v. Flair/Arn tag in 93, but at least I didn’t really want to see Taker/Skinner.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The network is free this month only for new subscribers signing up for the first time I believe.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Always love your RAW '93 reviews, Yeah.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> The network is free this month only for new subscribers signing up for the first time I believe.


Nah, I heard that they were doing the free February on January 31. Luckily for me, my new billing month starts on the 1st, so I canceled on the 31st, and was able to sign up for the free month on the 1st.

The fact that my billing cycle is on the 1st, enables me to always do this. I did this in November too.

So old customers can definitely sign up again, because I was barely even an old customer, and they let me.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

LilOlMe said:


> Always love your RAW '93 reviews, Yeah.


Thaaaaanks. 

I'll give it a shot to see whether I have to pay or not, worst case scenario I lose $11 and gain hundreds of wrestling matches.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Req. for El Generico vs. Sami Callihan, EVOLVE 13


*Sami Callihan vs El Generico (EVOLVE 13) (05.12.2012)*

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/indy-...rico-evolve-13-05-12-2012-a.html#post45058281


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

^YESSSSS


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

brock can you upload that match this whole thread marked out hard at? i think zayn/neville from some nxt show?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

King Kenny said:


> brock can you upload that match this whole thread marked out hard at? i think zayn/neville from some nxt show?


Even Flow had that one covered:

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wwe-m...n-nxt-title-wwe-nxt-takeover-r-evolution.html

 Your sig :mark:


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

STING

:mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Brock said:


> *Sami Callihan vs El Generico (EVOLVE 13) (05.12.2012)*
> 
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/indy-...rico-evolve-13-05-12-2012-a.html#post45058281


You are the fucking manbeast, dude (Y)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> :lmao :lmao :lmao
> 
> The Road to WM2000 hasn't been all that hot so far. Just confusing in the main event and the undercard matches aren't even set up yet. Benoit randomly attacked Jericho and Angle which I guess sets up their triple threat, Big Show should get the fuck out of the title scene (I guess they only kept him in it because it was in his contract to main event WM, so they put him in and got rid of him quickly when match time came) and the Hardys and Edge/Christian being clowned by Terri is an awful storyline that needs to fuck off too. I can only hope things get better after WM.
> 
> ...



That's really really strange, on Saturday I was bored and decided to watch Punk/Cena NoC, then I watched their Raw match, then I popped in the Benoit/Finlay/Regal comp (aka the Holy Bible as far as I'm concerned :side I have and Judgement Day 2006 was one of the matches I watched. Weird. The only problem is I had the exact opposite reaction to those matches as you did, they all went UP on rewatch for me, especially Punk/Cena NoC which I bumped all the way up to ****1/2. I loved it, it was a damn near perfect match for me, it especially loved Punks control segment. And Finlay/Benoit JD 06' is one of the 10 best matches in WWE history IMO. Every single time I've watched it, which is probably getting close to 20 times now, I enjoy it more than the last time and find some other little subtle detail to appreciate. I gave it the full ***** which is granted probably higher than anyone else has it but I really don't care. Everyone has to have a match they rationally or irrationally love more than everyone else (Like Cal with Eddie/Rey GAB 05') and I guess Benoit/Finlay JD06' is mine. It's just so unique and so much different than just about every other match WWE has ever put on (aside from other Benoit/Finlay matches, that is).

So fucking pumped that Zeppers graced us with Callihan/Generico EVOLVE. Speaking of Evolve and Callihan, Zeppers you don't happen to have the FIRST Finlay/Callihan EVOLVE match, do you? I think the old link I originally saw it on about 2 years ago got removed


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> So fucking pumped that Zeppers graced us with Callihan/Generico EVOLVE. Speaking of Evolve and Callihan, Zeppers you don't happen to have the FIRST Finlay/Callihan EVOLVE match, do you? I think the old link I originally saw it on about 2 years ago got removed


Yeah, ill sort it out this week for you.  07.26.2011 yeah?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> Yeah, ill sort it out this week for you.  07.26.2011 yeah?




Hmmm. That might be it, I always thought it was 4/13/12, from Evolve 11. Can anyone help me out, which Callihan/Finlay match is the one everyone went gaga over? Always thought it was their first match, which took place at EVOLVE 11, but I could be totally wrong, I don't follow DragonGate that closely.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Hmmm. That might be it, I always thought it was 4/13/12, from Evolve 11. Can anyone help me out, which Callihan/Finlay match is the one everyone went gaga over? Always thought it was their first match, which took place at EVOLVE 11, but I could be totally wrong, I don't follow DragonGate that closely.


Evolve 9 was their first match I believe. Not sure myself which one is the most praised one as i still havn't got around to watching the series yet.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Co-sign everything cjack said. Why does it seem like all the great EVOLVE matches are on their odd-numbered events? I think it's the EVOLVE 9 match that was their most commended. At least that's what Cal believes.

Are we allowed to talk about the supposedly game changing news about Wrestlemania here?


----------



## TheChoppingMachine (Mar 25, 2014)

The Evolve 9 one is indeed the most praised but they're all awesome.

I think I'm gonna watch COTC II right now.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Co-sign everything cjack said. Why does it seem like all the great EVOLVE matches are on their odd-numbered events? I think it's the EVOLVE 9 match that was their most commended. At least that's what Cal believes.
> 
> Are we allowed to talk about the supposedly game changing news about Wrestlemania here?



Alright Zeppers, the bout from Evolve 9 if you have it. Thanks a ton.

PS do you happen to have Danielson/McGuinness Unified 06' by any chance? I realized that one got taken down as well. Stupid ROH being internet Nazi's.

Funnyfaces1- I honestly think Punk/Cena NoC 12' is like, 90-95% as good as their MitB match. Punk might have been even better at NoC than he was that night. The ONLY thing I would change would be to take out 1 GTS and 1 AA kickout each. I thought it was slightly over kill. Otherwise they told the "throwing everything they have at each other" story especially well. Would have been killer if they busted out the pile driver spot here but I guess I'm glad they saved it for their Raw match as that only served to make it more memorable. It's especially impressive to watch Punks performance when you realize his knee was so screwed up after Cena rolled over his knee.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Funnyfaces1- I honestly think Punk/Cena NoC 12' is like, 90-95% as good as their MitB match. Punk might have been even better at NoC than he was that night. The ONLY thing I would change would be to take out 1 GTS and 1 AA kickout each. I thought it was slightly over kill. Otherwise they told the "throwing everything they have at each other" story especially well. Would have been killer if they busted out the pile driver spot here but I guess I'm glad they saved it for their Raw match as that only served to make it more memorable. It's especially impressive to watch Punks performance when you realize his knee was so screwed up after Cena rolled over his knee.


Love that match so much. Probably my favorite heel Punk performance in 2012. Everything he did from the way he held up the title for a couple minutes straight in the beginning of the match to his choice of Yankees pinstripe trunks to that Rock Bottom was tremendous. Or how about the way he destroyed Cena's ankle with that Muta Lock? Punk's work in that match should be the blueprint on how to wrestle as a heel in today's era where something like an eyepoke or a cheap rollup just doesn't have the same impact that it once did.

They definitely did tell that story of "throwing everything they have at each other" very well. And the way they did it was by not resorting to the same sequence of moves (except for the second finisher, although both of those finishers were done in different fashion from their first attempt). Matches like these are made for wrestlers to go out of their kayfabe comfort zone and try out new moves. Yeah, Cena's super german suplex looked ugly, and sure Punk's moonsault didn't look pretty. But that "sloppiness" actually added to the story more than clean execution as it showed that both guys were trying to do everything they could to pick up the victory, even if it meant trying something they clearly weren't accustomed to doing. 

Their Summerslam match also did a wonderful job of telling this story, but in a different way. In that match, we got to see Cena use his power advantage in ways I've never seen him (even throwing in a sick spinning side slam and an emerald frosion) and we got to see Punk utilize his kayfabe martial arts ability to its full potential (those knees :mark.

The two issues I have with that match would be that they did do one too many finishers each, and Cena's selling was not very good. If you notice, Punk's big matches tend to stay at one finisher at most, and instead of resorting to finisher kickouts, Punk and his opponent try to reverse/counter finishers or there will be someone like Paul Heyman interrupting the pinfall. That's how you protect your finisher while also creating that main event atmosphere associated with big WWE matches without cheapening it. 

I used to think that the complaints about finisher kickouts was just incessant whining from wrestling fans, but the WWE main event match at this point definitely goes too far into the overuse of finishers territory. And Cena isn't the only one guilty of it. I would love to see Brock for instance stop using the kimura as a resthold and start using it as a surprise submission that actually ends matches (or at least threatens to end matches). That feeling of obligation that a main event match must have a finisher kickout is not a pleasant one as it causes wrestlers to maintain bad habits.

An additional point to make is that on the RAW after NoC 2012, Punk and Cena were part of a tag match involving Del Rio and someone else that I don't recall. During that match, we get a callback from the previous night's match between Punk and Cena. Remember that kick that Punk would do in order to reverse the 5 Knuckle Shuffle? Well Punk attempted that in the RAW tag match to Cena, but Cena reversed it into an STF! I was so fascinated at how they actually made the events of the night before have lasting significance. That level of scouting is paramount in wrestling, and we don't see it enough in the WWE. Oddly enough, Dolph has done a very good job of implementing "scouting" into his matches.

EDIT: Final point to make. On any other year, Punk's control segment would be my favorite in the WWE for that year. But :brock at Extreme Rules was so good that his segment even trumped Punk's!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I found Punk's control segment pretty dull at NoC. The match on a whole was just very up and down for me. Starts off slow which is acceptable, then after the Muta Lock, it goes super slow because Cena twisted his ankle during the reversal (something Punk shed more light on in the Colt podcast) and therefore they went even more slow until the next hot stretch with the submission exchanges. There's a rather awesome suicide dive by Cena but the match goes a bit slow until they start with nearfalls and finishers and ultimately the ugly finish. Solid match but not great.

Then again, I may just not be in a very positive mode when rating matches at the moment so a lot of matches have gone down a bit.

And ff, what do you think of the SD match with Punk and Ambrose? Finally got around to watching it last week and it wasn't as good as I hoped it would be. Still decent, just expected better based on the small sample when I skipped through it when the show first aired.

Raw is on right now but I haven't even thought about watching it because I've got this awesome Raw show from 20 March 2000 on which is pretty much what the WM2000 road needed. Red-hot Chicago crowd that are absolutely awesome and plenty of fun action and segments. But it's still strange to me that they give away the WM main event (minus Foley who will be added afterward), hoping the match will be good. Enjoyed X-Pac & Road Dogg vs Hardys and Benoit vs Jericho was okay for their first WWE encounter. _(now Trish is making her debut!)_


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Punk/Cena

Money In The Bank *****
Night Of Champions ****1/2
Raw 13 ****1/2
Summerslam ***3/4

Real shame we never got to see any gimmick matches between them. HIAC, TLC, ironman, falls count anywhere, last man standing. The list of possibilities is endless.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> And ff, what do you think of the SD match with Punk and Ambrose? Finally got around to watching it last week and it wasn't as good as I hoped it would be. Still decent, just expected better based on the small sample when I skipped through it when the show first aired.
> 
> Raw is on right now but I haven't even thought about watching it because I've got this awesome Raw show from 20 March 2000 on which is pretty much what the WM2000 road needed. Red-hot Chicago crowd that are absolutely awesome and plenty of fun action and segments. But it's still strange to me that they give away the WM main event (minus Foley who will be added afterward), hoping the match will be good. Enjoyed X-Pac & Road Dogg vs Hardys and Benoit vs Jericho was okay for their first WWE encounter. _(now Trish is making her debut!)_


I really liked that match, but it's a match meant for people that are fans of those guys. Cool to see Ambrose use the Pepsi Twist. Their RAW match was so much better though. I did a writeup of it last year.

Those Chicago RAWs were crazy. Jericho and Rock always got career pops in those places. I think every Chicago show in 2000 had a fan try to run into the ring too :lol. April is when things really become great. This is also the point where Jericho and Benoit have two good matches every week. There's a match between Benoit & Malenko against the Hardy Boyz on 4/13 that is worth paying attention to. Oh, and a Jericho/Rock match on 4/20. And then that batshit insane tag match between HHH/Benoit and Rock/Jericho.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Don't waste your time with anything from RAW tonight. Extremely lazy effort across the boards with a bunch of rematches and feud progression. A neat segment "with" Sting and a possible heel turn with Reigns at the end, but they'll show those moments 8 more times on WWE programming for you to see. 

They kept showing this video that said Sheamus Returns but never told you when he's returning. Probably at a house show against Chris Jericho or something. Still no sign of Randy Orton, either. I'm getting a bit restless if you couldn't tell.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

At this rate, if the product continues to be this lifeless, I may not even watch Wrestlemania live. Royal Rumble is the only event I have actually watched live since the show when Orton was written off. His absence is probably a blessing in disguise for me because I never feel the urge to watch with him not around.

Tells you all you need to know when Seth Rollins' dick was a more relevant subject than Raw itself. :lel

I've seen that Benoit/HHH vs Rock/Jericho tag match before after reading about it being a top 5 highest rated match in Raw history and it's a pretty awesome one to say the least.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The saddest part is that the talent the company has at the moment, even discarding NXT, is monumental. If only they had a clue on how to use it 

Ambrose, Cesaro, Ziggler and even Ryback should've been top babyfaces by now. Bray and BNB should be among the top heels easily, in their case. And honestly, Reigns should just turn heel as soon as possible. The company's active top heels are Rollins, Kane and Show. You could make a case for Rusev too, but he ain't at the top of the card the way I see it, so no. Kane and Show are 2/3 of the active top heels in TWO-THOUSAND-AND-FUCKING-FIFTEEN. And hell, Seth's run might be in jeopardy after the nudes fiasco, given the WWE's track record of 'punishments', so yeah. Reigns should turn heel. Plus, if the Shield is any indication, Reigns seems WAY more comfortable working heel than babyface.

As a matter of fact, I can only wonder that, if they weren't a bunch of assholes, the roster would be even better - Punk could've been there, Del Rio could've been there, and guys that they fired in the past that really shouldn't have been jobbed out and fired, like McIntyre and Masters, could've been there.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Please feel free to completely ignore this wall of text, I got bored at work and decided to do this to kill time. I decided to go through all the PPV matches in the WWE and build the “Perfect” event. Basically, grab matches from all the PPV’s and build the best 8 match card possible. The rules I gave myself are: same wrestler cannot appear twice, same title cannot be defended twice, only PPV matches allowed, must defend all 5 major titles (WWE title OR the WHC, IC Title, US Title, Tag Titles, Divas/Womens Title.) So with those rules here is the card I came up with:

The Perfect PPV (WWF/E)
(WWE Title Match): Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle Summerslam 2001 ***** (9)
(IC Title Match): Cactus Jack vs Randy Orton Backlash 2004 ***** (9)
(US Title Match): Eddie Guerrero vs Chris Benoit Vengeance 2003 ****1.2 (7)
(Tag Title Match): Hardy Boys vs Dudley Boys vs Edge & Christian TLC Summerslam 2000 ****1/2 (7)
(Divas Title Match): Trish Stratus vs Mickie James WrestleMania 22 ***1/2 (3)
(Bonus Match 1): Brock Lesnar vs CM Punk Summerslam 2013 ***** (9)
(Bonus Match 2): Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker Hell in a Cell Badd Blood 1997 ***** (9)
(Bonus Match 3): Bret Hart vs Mr. Perfect King of the Ring 1993 ***** (9)
Total on Cal Scale: 62

Might as well do it for WCW as well. Same rules but we will have it so the WHC, US Title, TV Title, Cruiserweight Title, and (World OR U.S.)Tag Team Titles all have to be defended with 3 Bonus Matches.

The Perfect PPV (WCW)
(WHC Title Match): Terry Funk vs Ric Flair Great American Bash 1989 ***** (9)
(US Title Match): Steve Austin vs Ricky Steamboat Bash at the Beach 1994 ****1/4 (6)
(Television Title Match): Fit Finlay vs Chris Benoit Slamboree 1998 ****1/4 (6)
(Cruiserweight Title Match): Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Misterio Jr. Halloween Havoc 1997 ***** (9)
(Tag Team Title Match): Southern Boys vs The Midnight Express Great American Bash 1990 ****3/4 (8)
(Bonus Match # 1): Brian Pillman vs Jushin Thunder Liger SuperBrawl II 1992 ****1/2 (7)
(Bonus Match # 2): Randy Savage vs Diamond Dallas Page Great American Bash 1997 **** (5)
(Bonus Match #3 ): Big Van Vader vs Sting Strap Match SuperBrawl III ****1/2 (7)
Total on Cal Scale: 57

Heh, now lets do it using ONLY TV matches. Same rules as before, only now it’s TV only.

Perfect TV Show (WWF/E)
(WWE Title Match): Steve Austin vs Chris Benoit Smackdown 2003 ***** (9)
(IC Title Match): Shawn Michaels vs Marty Jannetty Raw 7/19/93 ***3/4 (4)
(US Title Match): Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit Smackdown 1/16/06 *****1/2 (7)
(Tag Title Match): The Shield vs Rhodes Bros No DQ Raw 2013 **** (5)
(Divas Title Match): Trish Stratus vs Lita Raw 12/6/04 ***1/4 (2)
(Bonus Match 1): Owen Hart vs British Bulldog European Championship Finals Raw 1997 ****3/4 (8)
(Bonus Match 2): Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio Smackdown 6/23/05 ***** (9)
(Bonus Match 3): Mr. Perfect vs Ric Flair Loser Leaves Town Raw 1993 ****1/2 (7)
Total on Cal Scale: 51

Perfect TV Show (WCW)
(WHC Title Match): Sting vs Diamond Dallas Page Nitro May 1999 ****1/2 (7)
(US Title Match): Steve Austin vs Ricky Steamboat Clash of the Champions XXVII 1994 ****1/2 (7)
(Television Title Match): Lord Steven Regal vs Psicosis Nitro 1996 **** (5)
(Cruiserweight Title Match): Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Misterio Jr. Nitro 1997 ***3/4 (4)
(Tag Team Title Match): Midnight Express vs The Fantastics Clash of the Champions I 1988 ****1/4 (6)
(Bonus Match #1 ): Terry Gordon/Steve Williams vs Steiner Bros COTC XIX 1992 ****3/4 (8)
(Bonus Match # 2): Ric Flair vs Terry Funk I Quit COTC IX 1989 ***** (9)
(Bonus Match # 3): Dustin Rhodes vs Big Van Vader COTC XXIX 1994 ****1/2 (7)
Total on Cal Scale: 53

If anyone else gets bored I’d love to see a card or 2 that you could come up with. If not, move right along, nothing to see here


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That reminds me, I don't think I did a Perfect PPV for WWE 2004 post on my BLOG~! lol. And I *think* the last 05 PPV was posted on Sunday so I need to do an 05 one as well .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Alright Zeppers, the bout from Evolve 9 if you have it. Thanks a ton.
> 
> PS do you happen to have Danielson/McGuinness Unified 06' by any chance? I realized that one got taken down as well. Stupid ROH being internet Nazi's.
> 
> Funnyfaces1- I honestly think Punk/Cena NoC 12' is like, 90-95% as good as their MitB match. Punk might have been even better at NoC than he was that night. The ONLY thing I would change would be to take out 1 GTS and 1 AA kickout each. I thought it was slightly over kill. Otherwise they told the "throwing everything they have at each other" story especially well. Would have been killer if they busted out the pile driver spot here but I guess I'm glad they saved it for their Raw match as that only served to make it more memorable. It's especially impressive to watch Punks performance when you realize his knee was so screwed up after Cena rolled over his knee.


*Finlay vs Sami Callihan (EVOLVE 9) (07.26.2011)*

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/indy-...lihan-evolve-9-07-26-2011-a.html#post45138193


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

I'm enjoying the Reigns/Bryan stuff I have to say. Strange hearing the crowd split on bryan for a change. If Bryan won I'd freak out but I know it's not happening. I should say though I am fine with Reigns/Lesnar on it's own.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

How do people rate CM Punk vs Randy Orton from Wreestlemania 27? I remember parts of the build up, but I don't think I watched this match, or I may have missed the whole wrestlemania ltself. Thoughts?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> How do people rate CM Punk vs Randy Orton from Wreestlemania 27? I remember parts of the build up, but I don't think I watched this match, or I may have missed the whole wrestlemania ltself. Thoughts?


I've always liked it. Whole match is based around legwork from Punk and Randy sells it pretty well. Finish was cool and you can easily guess what it was.  *** 1/2 for it.

If you actually haven't seen the event, also check out Edge/Del Rio and Rhodes/Mysterio. I assume you've seen HHH/Taker, but if not watch that too! Skip the rest of the show like your life depended on it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

King Kenny said:


> How do people rate CM Punk vs Randy Orton from Wreestlemania 27? I remember parts of the build up, but I don't think I watched this match, or I may have missed the whole wrestlemania ltself. Thoughts?


I rate it W for WANK.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Their RAW match that year was the best thing they did together.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Saw this GIF on another board and had to upload the accompanying match lol:










*Jushin Liger, Riki Choshu & Masahiro Chono vs Big Van Vader, Tony St. Clair & Tom Pritchard (NJPW) (11.01.1989)*

x2gyeo3


----------



## Krispenwah (Oct 29, 2014)

King Kenny said:


> How do people rate CM Punk vs Randy Orton from Wreestlemania 27? I remember parts of the build up, but I don't think I watched this match, or I may have missed the whole wrestlemania ltself. Thoughts?



Cm Punk did a great heel stuff during the feud.

But, the match wasn't really that good, one of the few Punk matches i consider was really boring.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Orton/Punker's WrestleMania 27 match was good on the first watch but nothing memorable aside from solid legwork. I can't see myself giving it another watch though. I'm sure it'll go down a lot.

Their Extreme Rules match rules but I don't remember their RAW match at all. Drawing a blank on that one. I do remember Orton winning in his continued clean sweep against Punk but I don't remember the match itself being particularly good or anything.



Bubz said:


> I'm enjoying the Reigns/Bryan stuff I have to say. Strange hearing the crowd split on bryan for a change. If Bryan won I'd freak out but I know it's not happening. I should say though I am fine with Reigns/Lesnar on it's own.


Yeah, the Reigns/Bryan feud has been fun minus the Authority involvement. I'm really looking forward to their match-up at Fast Lane. I would love to see the match structure similar to Shawn Michaels vs Jeff Hardy on RAW in 2008 where Reigns keeps setting up for his comebacks but Bryan knocks him down at every turn, showing off his veteran experience. I'm also expecting Bryan to be more physical in this match which would be sweet. I honestly don't care who wins at this point as I'm expecting Reigns to win so whatever.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

NXT Takeover: Rival

Hideo Itami vs. Tyler Breeze: ****1/2*
Bull Dempsey vs. Wolfman: *DUD*
Lucha Dragons vs. Blake & Murphy: ****
Finn Balor vs. Adrian Neville: *****1/4*
Sasha Banks vs. Becky Lunch vs. Charlotte vs. Bayley: ****1/2*
Kevin Owens vs. Sami Zayn: *****1/2*

NXT is five for fucking five!


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Didn't catch hour one, but the final three i did:

Balor/Neville- what i saw was fun stuff, real athletic contest. I confess to not seeing the very start, but what i saw was quite fun and solid stuff albeit a little too heavy on the false finish (a frequent complain I find myself having). As someone who doesn't regularly watch nxt at all , I'm not sure of the backstory here but i assume just a fight for contendership. I'll go ***3/4 or so for what i saw but I'll watch the entirety later

Women's four way: This match hit it out of the park for a wwe women's match and damn at some of the spots here. Stream too choppy to rate properly, but seemed like a great match to me in context, How often does that even cross our minds in that division with this company

Zayn/Steen: I had a clear picture here. The main mission of getting the belt of Steen in a monsterous way while augmenting the key sympathetic nature of Zayn's character/ ripping what was his right as he took so long to get it at the hands of an old rival is great stuff and was very well accomplished with the tko victory. Would've liked to see a package piledriver finish it off, but if Sami really is concussed, he is a tough fucker for going through with that. I saw the ref slip him a Tylonal so it is possible off his head bouncing from overshooting the asai moonsault. Action here was simple yet told the story in volumes. Didn't get the same feel/effect or entertainment I quite got from Brock/Cena SS though. I'll go ***1/2.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

NXT show was great! Bálor/Neville ***3/4, Bayley/Flair/Lynch/Banks **** Zayn/Owens ****1/4 penaldo)


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

Just wanted to come here & say that Zayn vs. Owen was fuckin amazing. One of the best matches in NXT history & a storytelling/psychology masterpiece. 

****1/4 for it. May go higher on a re-watch.


----------



## looper007 (Dec 20, 2014)

samizayn said:


> NXT show was great! Bálor/Neville ***3/4, Bayley/Flair/Lynch/Banks **** Zayn/Owens ****1/4 penaldo)


Got to disagree with you on you're rating of the Balor/Neville match, it was a lot better then a 3 and half star. I'd have it as the same rating as the Zayn/owens match for me Balor looked like a total star tonight.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

looper007 said:


> Got to disagree with you on you're rating of the Balor/Neville match, it was a lot better then a 3 and half star. I'd have it as the same rating as the Zayn/owens match for me Balor looked like a total star tonight.


I didn't rate it three and a half, I rated it three and three quarter!  That's a very good match, exactly what Bálor/Neville was. I think the stuff they came out with in the main events went that bit beyond the quotidian but that's just how I felt. What snowflakes are for after all :shrug


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Looks like Zayn vs Owens/Steen is gonna be worth a watch so I'll catch it tomorrow.

Didn't even know NXT was on and I was actually using the Network all this while. Don't spoil anything because I'll check this one out! (just the ME, too lazy for the whole event)

On the other hand, I've used the Network to binge watch some Sheamus stuff.

vs Triple H - WM26 (★★★¼)
vs Triple H - Extreme Rules (★★½)

vs Alberto Del Rio - Main Event LMS (★★¾)
vs Cesaro - Night of Champions (★★★★)
vs Chris Jericho - SD March 2012 (★★½)

vs Christian - SD Feb 21 2014 (★★★¼)
vs Christian - Raw Feb 24 2014 (★★★¼)
vs Christian - Raw March 3 2014 (★★★)
vs Christian - Raw March 10 2014 Street Fight (★★★¾)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

NXT show left me cold & bored on the whole. A lot of bad booking decisions for finishes.

Corbin vs Bull was a shame b/c they didn't even let em try - just a DUD that makes you scratch your head at what they were trying to attempt.

Tag Championship was bad. At least Murphy & Blake were the reasons why it wasn't. But Hunico always sucks and it shows. Hopefully he'll fuck off. Shame that even Kalisto was off his game tonight too. b/c he's normally the only good part of Lucha Dragons tag matches. Oof, at the match at the same. The Ascension are really missed. Looking back through all the tag championship matches, only one has been ok, & overall those two have looked the best as a team.

Opener was whatever. It's like they did stuff, but there wasn't any pop or substance. It was just was two over guys doing things & the crowd was hot. KENTA's matches need to have stronger finishes too. He gets dominated, then makes a comeback and wins. No drama at all. People complain about Cena's comebacks, at least those have tension and dramatic flare. KENTA is coming back, he hits a sick kick & that's all. At least he was selling. I dug that considering his track record in Japan of that has been extremely dire.

PAC/Neville vs Finn Devitt or whatever the hell everyone like to use these days was fine and dandy for one watch, but again, another one where it was like "lets just do some cool stuff b/c we're hot" instead of really producing something strong. I was wanting this to rule & then it didn't. I feel like that's the general direction for most NXT matches nowadays minus Zayn. An Attitude Era mentality or sorts. Just being there is good enough b/c that's what people pay for. Which in turn, isn't bad business, but it isn't anything special in the ring, as it were. And the irony is, that's what we're usually hyped up for when it comes to them.

Women's four way was p. fun. A few shaky spots, but nothing major. I thought it was a lot less contrived than numerous multiperson matches elsewhere all over the world. Not great, and a step down from say Charlotte vs Sasha & Charlotte vs Bayley from the other two specials, but I was a fan. Didn't like the ending. Thought it was...bizarre, for lack of a better term. Or lackluster, to use a more fitting word. The submission was applied, Charlotte was trying desperately to reach the ropes. She couldn't quite get there...then...nothing happens. She just lies in it. No ref stoppage & no tap out. So a crucifix happens and then it's over. The reaction to it all felt odd. Sasha just kind of sat there like "I won" & the real excitement for the submission spot was lost.

Main event was great for the majority. Sort of like a "duh", nail on the head comment b/c it is Zayn vs Steen & they can do anything to each other to make it something memorable. Then came the concussion nonsense. Ugh. Really? You're gonna put the contrived booking decision on THIS? Why wouldn't Steen just beat him clean or at the expense of Zayn taking a risk w/his anger? :lmao And then the way it ended too was completely dull. Powerbombs, but no domination pinfall a la Brock Lesnar on Cena. It was a ref stoppage point that left us wondering if that meant Steen was DQ'ed or if he'd actually be given the strap. None of the last 5 or however minutes of the ending worked for me whatsoever. Bad enough it was obvious that Steen would win - don't know why they couldn't have stretched it out. Taking the underdog bit almost too seriously now. - but to have it in a way that i'm sitting there unphashed wasn't something I expected.

The last two NXT shows left me w/a buzz of excitement & fun. This one fell down into the realm where the other shows had me at; not much to speak of. Only, this was probably the weakest overall outing for me as there wasn't anything I'd say was worth seeking out. ArRIVAL had Zayn vs Cesaro & Neville vs Dallas. Takeover had Zayn vs Breeze. This just had stuff that was either fine to sit through once or nothing to ever mention again. The original Takeover show was very poor, but this hit a lower note for me b/c I walked into this containing that hot feeling. Leaving cold is def a big time bummer.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

KENTA not selling is always especially annoying because when does sell he's really good at it. It's not like Davey Richards where even if he does try to sell he looks stupid doing it.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Spoiler: NXT




















































































































This mugshot came up first after searching for the above. Ricardo's really let himself go!


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

*NXT Takeover: Rival *

1. Tyler Breeze vs Hideo Itami ★★½

2. Bull Dempsey vs Baron Corbin ★

3. Lucha Dragons vs Blake and Murphy ★★★

4. Finn Balor vs Adrian Neville ★★★¾

5. Women's Title ★★★¼

6. Sami Zayn vs Kevin Owens ★★★½

Pretty solid PPV overall imo. The opening bout was ruined by Itami's piss-poor selling of the leg. Corbin/Dempsey tired, at least. This feud was one of the best booked things within recent times and it just fell flat in a matter of weeks. Both guys have been made to look like idiots in the weeks prior and it's safe to say no one really won tonight. 

I liked the tag match tbh. There were a flew slip ups in the opening minutes but for the most part I liked what I saw. Not really a fan of Murphy and Blake but they did some solid work in their match. 

Balor and Neville went a bit into over kill mode but it was a fun match nonetheless. Although, does the commentary team think we're idiots? They kept saying, "these guys are working a slow pace" when within the first two minutes they were flying. Fuck outta here. 

All four women deserve a round of applause for their work out there in that fatal four way. They worked their asses off and did some shit you'd never see the Divas on the main roster do :clap

Zayn/Owens told the story they wanted to tell and it was fine by me. Maybe it's because I have a low IQ but the finish had me confused. I initially thought Owens was DQ'ed. So it was a shock for me. Zayn to get called up after Mania?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Zayn/Owens doing the Rey/Kurt spot was the best spot of the show, made me smile like a twat. The four way was MOTN, though. Probably maybe probably not write something more substantial tomorrow.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

*Takeover Rival*
Itami/Breeze: ***1/2*
Corbin/Bull: SO BAD
Dragons/Los Guerreros(?): did not watch
Balor/Neville: ****1/2*
Charlotte/Banks/Lynch/Bayley: ***1/2*
Owens/Zayn: *****1/4*

imo maybe


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

Don't care if I'm the only person in the world that thinks Zayn v Owens was just that good. The entire match was amazing, and the ending told an excellent story whilst making neither guy look weak. Still consider it the best NXT match I've ever seen.

Also Corbin is just garbage and is the only guy on the roster that call actually make me think Bull Dempsey deserves better.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

obby said:


> Don't care if I'm the only person in the world that thinks Zayn v Owens was just that good. The entire match was amazing, and the ending told an excellent story whilst making neither guy look weak. Still consider it the best NXT match I've ever seen.


Agree with all of this. I hereby change my rating of said match to four and three quarter shift plus eight.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I really don't know how can anyone rate the divas match lower than ***3/4. That match stole the show


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm not sure about stealing the show but I would say this, I was actually burned out for the main event. So yeah, they did a hell of a job. They should have had some filler in between the Divas match and the main event.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> Spoiler: NXT


When it said that my reaction was p. intense. That and most interest on the show kind of dwindled down b/c I knew I had to look to Wed to REALLY get what I wanted. My god, it's about time.

----------

And filler in-between main events is awful. WCW never had to do it. Fans still cared. If you need a cool down between stuff you're dying to see, then something is wrong.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*NXT Takeover: Rival:*
Tyler Breeze vs. Hideo Itami: ***
Baron Corbin vs. Bull Dempsey: 3/4*
Blake & Murphy vs. The Lucha Dragons: LOLWTF
Adrian Neville vs. Finn Bálor: ***3/4
Fatal 4-Way: ***1/2-***3/4
Sami Zayn vs. Kevin Owens: ****

- Hour 1 was really not too good, hour 2 tho :banderas

- Tyler fuckin' Breeze was the greater reason the opener worked, despite an okay selljob by Itami, who still needs a ton of work for my estimation. But Breeze and his heel work is just incredible. Deserves so much more. 

- Corbin/Dempsey... they tried. I can't say I hated it because I had fun w/it, but was it well worked? Not really.

- I HATED the Tag Titles match on first watch. The 1st half was an utter botchfest (although I put the blame entirely on the Dragons, even Kalisto was off his game), and the 2nd, although I liked the intented story there, became so weird w/all those attempted pin counters and whatnot. Not good.

- Neville/Bálor was really when the show started to pick up. Loved Neville here, him playing the intelligent scumbag, and Bálor did a nice job as the freakshow he is too. Yes, some of this might've been overkill, but they smartly did not kick out of finishers (Red Arrow was countered, Coup De Grace ended match on 1st go... and the one where Neville was bent over was at best a secondary finisher btw), plus I liked most sequences and ideas here.

- The Fatal 4-Way was just :clap in terms of busting asses out there and working the best you can. Of course that's not the main reason the match was great - but it adds to the reasons of it being really fun, having terrific character work and being memorable. Despite the weird ass ending. Up there w/Charlotte/Bayley as my favorite NXT women's match.

- Zayn/Owens doesn't need any more to be said. I didn't mind the concussion angle since Zayn dropping the title this way allows for him to be written off NXT and go out to the main roster, plus it puts Owens over in dominant fashion. And the whole match was a storytelling clinic as I really should've expected.

NXT PPV's for me:
1) R-Evolution
2) Rival
3) Arrival
4) Fatal 4-Way
5) Takeover

And they ALL ruled. Take that, universe.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Itami/Breeze was okay I guess. Some decent stuff in there but it lacked flow and substance. Not something I would call good.

Balor/Neville on the other hand was good. Very, very good. Really dug the feeling out process at the start with neither guy allowing the other to hit the first big high spot of the match. Every time someone went to the top or went for a springboard or a dive or something like that it got cut off until Balor finally flew over the top rope on his 3rd attempt. Shit popped off after that. This was my first time seeing Balor. I liked the gimmick. The stalking shit he did before the barricade dropkick made it a better spot than it normally would be. Good execution throughout. Maybe a bit of overkill down the stretch but all in all I thoroughly enjoyed it.

I'll watch the women's match and Zayn/Owens later.


----------



## RATED-RKO1991 (Dec 23, 2006)

NXT Takeover:Rival

Breeze/Itami - ***
Corbin/Dempsy - *
Tag-Team Championship - **
Balor/Neville - *** 3/4
4-way - **** 
Owens/Zayn - **** 1/2 

Fantastic second half of the show. Main event gets MOTN from me, with the woman's match a very close second.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

I thought Owens/Zayn was pretty fantastic, concussion stuff included. Steen is awesome and looked like a huge deal I thought going over in that fashion and it writes Zayn off NXT to possibly get called up without him getting pinned for the title and it makes Steen in to a monster heel, the guy murdered the champion and then proceeded to murder him until he couldn't even move. I liked it a lot, and I also liked the powerbombs being the move to do it because well, I fucking LOVE powerbombs. I would have preferred a pin finish though but I get why they did what they did. Not sure I've seen a title change hands that way before so it was kind of confusing. Zayn was amazing in the match with his facials as always and the selling of the concussion was brilliant. It worked because the majority of the audience looked concerned and I did think he was legit hurt after that dive until he started wobbling around in the ring at which point it became obvious what was happening but I still liked it.. I loved everything until that angle too though, they definitely got across the hatred they had on the indies and even more so within the final five minutes with Steen trying to kill Zayn. Felt like a real continuation or new chapter in their rivalry and hopefully just their first chapter within WWE.

Rest of the show was whatever. I enjoyed Balor/Neville a lot for what it was and the womens match was really good fun.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I wouldn't argue how someone like Zayn could make something like the angle actual seem legit - b/c that's what he did - but it was just not working for me in any fashion. Roll my eyes kind of stuff. Besides, once all the excitement from a match w/those two has left me, it lost something major. It's still a good match though. Just didn't contain the entire essence of being great like I would have preferred from everything up until the concussion spot.

All of this said & I'm not really a fan of the angle already being where it is at. Would have preferred a longer, slow burn of the process. These specials are sure to happen a bit more frequently _(from R:Evolution - Rival it was only two months, the quickest span to date) _so they could have easily held off on this finish for the next show. Would have only made Steen's HATE more fitting. Especially when the entire build was that he had no hate. It wasn't personal. He's just the kind of guy who wants to find top success in the company, even if he has to beat his best friend. I dunno. Should really went in a completely different direction. We didn't even get the Zayn hate either. Thought that hurt. That was built upon only for it to not happen b/c he was yet another wounded underdog back in the same role where he was at at all of the other shows prior.


----------



## NakNak (Feb 9, 2015)

Bálor/Neville was kinda "slow" at the beginning, but at the last minutes, this match was very, very good. Bálor entrance is pure fucking art, Neville owns the Ring, he's great at this, maybe..."young veteran" role (?), i had that vibe at first in the match. But this was not as good as i was expecting **** (i expected **** 1/4 at least lol). Something was off in this.

The Fatal4Way was a looooot of fun, **** 1/4 (YES, i liked it more that Bálor/Neville, call me crazy). Everyone did her stuff, i'm suprised with Becky Lynch, she did a great job (well, the 4 girls did). It was nice that the finish was suprising, in the sense of the way Sasha won. And Bailey was on fire ladies & gentlemen, what a fun match...

And Owens/Zayn, god, this was storytelling at his best, very old school style. Kevin is a great Heel, and somewhat different of his "Steen" persona, he's more cold now, calculating, methodical. Sami did a nice job, trying to beat KO, but his emotions got the best of him. And the end was very refreshing, idk, at first, i thought "Well, double DQ or something, Zayn retains" but i was suprised and happy as fuck that Owens won. Yeah, maybe i'm a minority, but i give this ***** (WWE MOTY so far). The story they told, to me, was top notch, i was watching it like i was a child again. 

Last words: Charlotte & Neville are not in NXT anymore (my guess), Zayn will have a rematch and then he will go to the ME. Fuck, i'm afraid for all of them (Vince, you fucking out of touch senile man)


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Can't see Zayn getting called up any time soon and I'm happy with that, Vince will ruin him as soon as he gets his hands on him. Balor's just filler for Owens while Zayn's written off TV then they'll pick up where they left off.

Only seen Itami/Breeze(***) and Balor/Neville(***1/2) so far.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Got through everything except the main event, then got called in to work this morning. UGH. Women's 4-way was so damn good. NXT is 2-for-2 in the Fatal 4-way department.

That Tag Title match was so fucking awful. Like, jesus. What a complete botch filled mess.


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> All of this said & I'm not really a fan of the angle already being where it is at. Would have preferred a longer, slow burn of the process. These specials are sure to happen a bit more frequently _(from R:Evolution - Rival it was only two months, the quickest span to date) _so they could have easily held off on this finish for the next show. Would have only made Steen's HATE more fitting. Especially when the entire build was that he had no hate. It wasn't personal. He's just the kind of guy who wants to find top success in the company, even if he has to beat his best friend. I dunno. Should really went in a completely different direction. We didn't even get the Zayn hate either. Thought that hurt. That was built upon only for it to not happen b/c he was yet another wounded underdog back in the same role where he was at at all of the other shows prior.


I think an underlying hatred behind the cover of it not being personal is what they're going for. Just think of how many times Albert was all DIS IS PERSONAL YO in that match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Meanwhile the story build up the personal torment for Zayn, not Steen. Yet the story of the match went in a completely different direction. Almost felt like they gave in to Steen just having to be a monster immediately rather than make him full on explode by Zayn proving he's at where he's at _(first; remember that. Steen even made mention that he got there first and it did kind of hurt)_ by beating him. Thus allowing it to truly boil over. First it was professional. Then it would have erupted into personal. Instead it just was kind of a tired excuse to do Steen killing Generico one more time and I'm like "eh" at the result.

Already said I completely saw it coming. WWE loves to keep underdogs, underdogs. Even if they shouldn't be at _every_ turn.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Watched the main event earlier today and I have to say I was disappointed. ★★★½ if I'm being generous. I just can't buy into Owens as this vicious heel and the concussion angle is one that only works for me if it's a pre-match story. Just when the match started to really go well, they went with this and it just died for me. From the multiple powerbombs to referee stopping the match, I was left wishing there was more to the match than that. I don't know much about the back-story (other than Owens turning on Zayn after his title win) but the way they went about it towards the end... I wasn't feeling it.

The concussion story can work if it's already preexisting (like Benoit/HHH Gold Rush tournament or Ziggler/Del Rio Payback) but I haven't been a fan of them adding it mid-match after a hard bump.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Haven't gotten to any of the good matches yet, but I feel compelled to weigh in on two of the first three right now.

Itami/Breeze was good. Breeze is easily the most impressive NXT guy with no relevant independent-scene background, but Itami is a guy who I once loved, but thought was about as done as done can be based on his last year or so in NOAH. Then I started seeing him in NXT, and it's like night and day. I'm so happy to see him working short, meaningful matches in front of a hot crowd rather than slogging his way through 40-minute slugfests at Differ Ariake. 

The tag title match... Whoof. That was something else. The tandem performance of Blake and Murphy can only be described in glowing terms. They wrestled a perfect tag team match: their continuity was awesome, their moves were on-point, and they looked like they'd been teaming for years. Put them against opponents who did the same, and this could've been a ★★★+ affair. The Lucha Dragons, though... What the hell? Kalisto had the most noticeable botch, but it was Sin Cara who looked like he hadn't been in the ring in ages. I never saw Mistico in the role, but based on everything I read, I can't imagine he did any worse than Hunico did here. I mean, was his sloppiness, laziness, and just general "off"-ness a deliberate ploy to make Blake & Murphy (who desperately need a proper team name, stat) look better? Good lord. If pro wrestling was a real sport, this match would be comparable to last year's Super Bowl: The winners _did_ play an incredible game, but they were helped immensely by the fact that the losers could hardly have looked worse.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Baylor/Neville: ***3:4
Steen/Zayn: ****

Gotta watch the women's match now. Loved both of these matches though, especially Steen/Zayn. Finish didn't bother me and I enjoyed the story they went for. Seemed reasonable to go that direction even if they did rush it as Hayley said. It has more impact if two guys start off as being pros then completely snap and go crazy on each other as opposed to just being crazy from the word go. Dean Ambrose could do with heeding that advice. If we got a bad ass pro wrestling match ending Zayn losing via DQ (but not losing the title) after Owens repeatedly kicks him in the head or something after getting frustrated that he can't pin Zayn, then set up the grudge match at the next special and let them have an all out war (maybe the first NXT No DQ match/Street Fight?) that ends with Steen giving a concussed Zayn 4 power bombs, the last one onto concrete or a chair or something, and then Zayn gets carted off to head to the main roster and Owens is set up as the dominant heel champ.


----------



## Saber Rider ^-^ (Mar 15, 2014)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> *(maybe the first NXT No DQ match/Street Fight?)* that ends with Steen giving a concussed Zayn 4 power bombs, the last one onto concrete or a chair or something, and then Zayn gets carted off to head to the main roster and Owens is set up as the dominant heel champ.


Corbin vs Dempsey was actually No DQ. They did nothing with it, I honestly can't remember a more pointless stipulation.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

I really enjoyed Owens/Zayn. Here you had Kevin Fucking STEEN - who's apparently sold lots of shirts - getting heat and working the smarks at NXT. The post-match photos of fan reactions says it all - hell, the booing said it all. He still probably did too much, but he's on the penultimate platform against his ideal opponent - and making his first "big time" match on WWE programming to boot. Whatever.

Finish really worked for me. I mean, what's to get? Medical staff clears Zayn after a few powerbombs. Ref gives the green light for the match to continue and then decides to stop it after three more - the man can't defend himself and hasn't for the last 3-5 minutes. Thought they played it well w/the Arabian Press and it really shows just what kind of dick Owens is to punish his would-be best friend. I wanted "I Don't Care About Anyone Else But Me" to play through the loudspeaker after the ref raised his hand in victory. Heartless. ****1/2

The Women's match was great fun as well - Charlotte and Sasha are killing it for me. Charlotte with her ferocity and intimidating presence, and Sasha for her true grit. The girl is tough as nails and without fear. Would like to see Sasha as the baby face and Charlotte the heel for the title, pls:agree: Lynch was OK, Bailey too. They worked what I was sure would be a cluster into a coheasive 4-way. Thank GOD they didn't do a tower spot:lol when I saw a grouping in the turnbuckle my heart started to sink. Close call. **** for that.

On paper, the two matches back-to-back looks like overkill, but Owen's deliberate work to start and during the heat brought me back. Show was mostly good, and was only really let down by the tag match - there's a damn story already written in the match, and it's only mentioned once off-hand: Sin Cara is working the main roster and NXT. He's tired, jet-lagged. Instead, I just get Graves (who's all business in the ring) asking rhetorically "Why is Sin Cara taking so much time going for the cover/tag?" I get he's the heel, but it's repetitious refrain was grating my ears when the answer - and better heat - is to talk about how Sin Cara's not able to put the time in; question his commitment. Nit picked.




Saber Rider ^-^ said:


> Corbin vs Dempsey was actually No DQ. They did nothing with it, I honestly can't remember a more pointless stipulation.


There was *brawling* and *punches* on the outside for more than 10 seconds. And also whatever it was Dempsey was looking for under the ring. Sure, he never found it, but you can imagine what it would have looked like if he had. Oh, and that chair that one time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hunico is really bad. He's worked matches like that one before where it looks like he doesn't know what he's doing inside the ring. Probably the best reference since that tag championship match was the hilarious series - specifically from Hell in a Cell 2011 - vs Mistico. It was dreadful when Quack kept booking him for Chikara circa late 2007 - 2008.

------------

Finally got around to watching Undertaker vs Bret from Royal Rumble 1996. Thought it was totally great. Effortlessly methodical & ruthlessly rugged all at the same time. Both fit that mold of being plenty able to just work mean, despite their babyface alignment. And there weren't any punches pulled here to try and appease the fans. It showed; crowd was SUPER pro-Taker. That was awesome. They wanted him to win so badly Bret not only wasn't favored, but he was getting rather excessive heat near the end. Def when the exposed turnbuckle came into play. Taker was selling his damaged wheel really well in this. Which kind of surprised me b/c he wouldn't really do that vs Bret in their '97 series. At SummerSlam he'd sell being exhausted from the strenuous battle, but not the specific limb. Here he actually did both. It really helped keep me glued to the screen as they continued to rip at each other. Match was a beacon of light for this card to supreme levels too, considering all the other matches prior were terrible & really reflected how poor the company kind of was as a whole. Razor vs Goldust is signed and it's a DUD. Talking "what the hell are you guys doing, you're terrific" type DUD. Stalling. Awkwardness. Tons & tons of a lack of interest. That's for all four matches; Rumble included. Then comes Taker vs Bret & the fans are planted w/interest. The two big dogs are put out there and it all becomes a great reality that these two can turn a show around. (well, almost) Yeah, ok, true, the finish in this is very sour. A complete jip after the war Taker & Bret went through, but at least it holds merit in terms of intending to be weak to build into a subsequent program or two. Bret vs Diesel needs its final chapter, Diesel is now a full blown heel, Taker wants to kill Diesel and eventually will get him at WM, yada yada. The pieces were laid out well. So, the finish can live w/me for what it is. Not the kind of thing that would "ruin" any aspect of the match for me. Nice to know I finally have an opinion on this match. Felt like it's been under the radar for much too long. Only cements how much I loved Taker's string of PPV matches circa 1996.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Uploaded the JR/Mankind Interviews from 1997:

*Jim Ross Interviews Mankind (RAW 05.19.1997)*

x2h3iym

*Jim Ross Interviews Mankind (RAW 05.26.1997)*

x2h3l2o

*Jim Ross Interviews Mankind (RAW 06.02.1997) Part 1*

x2h3mik

*Jim Ross Interviews Mankind (RAW 06.02.1997) Part 2*

x2h3noh

*Jim Ross Interviews Mankind (RAW 06.09.1997)*

x2h3qes


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Seems Owens/Zayn is a bit of a marmite match. Personally I thought it was enthralling. I only just got through watching the event and while the first half wasn't great, the second half was brilliant. I still actually liked Itami/Breeze and the selfie stick has me :lol'ing every time I think about it. Nothing much to say about the tag match or Bull/Corbin. Corbin definitely has something about him but he's very green and still needs a lot of work. Bull is just awful though. Awful presence, goofy look, terrible gimmick and yeah, he just sucks and I can't take him seriously. 

:banderas at the crowd chanting SHIT after the BULL in his entrance music :lmao. 

Balor/Neville was great. I enjoyed the story of the match but I wasn't blown away. I reckon Balor/Itami was better tbh. Looking forward to Balor/Owens when it happens of course. That's going to be pretty sweet. LOVED the 4 way, thought the pace was brilliant and I really love the fact that in NXT the women are allowed to perform instead of treated like eye candy. I like Charlotte but I'm glad Sasha won. The BOSS era is upon us. Back to the main event, I enjoyed it a lot. They drew me into the story big time and watching Sami get decimated like that hurt . I thought the ending with the medics and the ref was done pretty well and the confusion that followed only made the ref handing Owens the title that much more significant. 

So yeah, brilliant show. Not as good as R Evolution but still great and if the spoilers for the coming month are anything to go by, things are only set to get better. It's night and day the way I feel about NXT and the main shows. If HHH, Rollins, Bryan, Lesnar and sometimes Cena weren't there I don't think I'd bother. NXT gives me what I want and I have fun watching it. Why bother with Raw when it's either boring or frustrating?

*Balor/Neville - ***1/2
Women's 4 Way - ***3/4
Owens/Zayn - ***3/4*


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

one of my favourite matches ever. this is what the first thing i watched, and was an Austin fan and he became my favourite of all time. him and STING


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I never seem to stick to projects and always tend to scattergun my wrestling watching. But after finally reauthoring and burning Will's Vader comp, a fucking Big Van Vader binge of some sort is on the horizon. 

:mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

So CM Punk and Tomoaki Honma were in the same ring at the same time at one point.

Thoughts on Homicide? I've been watching a lot of his work recently and he's pretty fun to watch and a very likable character. However, he does so much dumb shit in his matches and he relies too much on kicking out of other people's finishers.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WWF 1995 might be one of the worst years for the company with ratings and making money or whatever (I'm assuming? too lazy to look up facts lol), but fuck, I've watched the second half of the year and I've had SO MUCH FUN with just Raw and PPV's alone. Screw what some people might think; Raw in 1995 was GOOD. PPV's in 1995 had some great, GREAT matches. Did it have some shit? Yeah, of course it did. Every year does. Some more than others, and 1995 is NOT one that has more than others. I'd honestly say 98 and 99 Raw's were worse shows. At least 1995 had at least one good match per show. I'd struggle to fill a fucking *VCD* with good matches from Raw in 98 and 99 .

Oh yeah, and fucking NASH had a shoot promo! In 1995! Before Russo! Wasn't expecting that!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

There was only one IYH PPV I thought was pretty iffy, w/the rest being good fun. And the bigger events were always p. good too. _(maybe not WM)_ Rumble is great, SummerSlam I quite like a bit & I really think Survivor Series is strong on the majority w/three GREAT matches.

I'm hitting up 1996 RAWs now that they were put on the network & it seems spotty in terms of quality. One week you get one thing that's fun, but the rest stinks. The the next you get average, completely forgettable stuff the next, & then you get a great show w/three quality matches and wonder how things can be so up and down. This is specifically referring to the first set of tapings following the Rumble in 1996. That third RAW w/Dudes w/Attitude vs Camp Cornette, 1-2-3 Kid vs Hakushi, & Taker vs Bret; oh hell yeah. I wonder what Nitro had to compare.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Randy Savage vs. Chris Benoit in a title match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That could have been one hell of a Monday for wrestling fans.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

In the interest of fairness, once Randy's knees went out, so too did most of Randy's ring ability.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Watched the tag turmoil from Smackdown and really enjoyed it. The Uso section was fucking great. Bryan was amazing in it. Booking him like the vicious little bastard he is instead of the happy go lucky babyface has been long overdue and watching this I remembered why Bryan is the absolute best. Reigns was really good too and both guys were fantastic out on the apron. Their interactions ruled because they have awesome chemistry. Really looking forward to their Fast Lane match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> So CM Punk and Tomoaki Honma were in the same ring at the same time at one point.
> 
> Thoughts on Homicide? I've been watching a lot of his work recently and he's pretty fun to watch and a very likable character. However, he does so much dumb shit in his matches and he relies too much on kicking out of other people's finishers.


I thought he was easily the best guy in ROH in 2003. He does have some 'stupid shit' matches (hated his first match w/ Trent Acid IIRR), but I wouldn't call it frequent.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I had a bit of a snicker when I first saw that match on the card. (only b/c WWE and tag teams are a constant joke) Then I stopped and said "well fuck these tag teams, I want to see Danielson & Reigns dominate". So, I will sometime this week.

Homicide was great. One of my early favorites & that got me to stick around w/ROH. I won't hold having a match vs Trent Acid against him.


----------



## Wynter (Nov 19, 2013)

Spoiler: SD Tag Team Turmoil



*
Of course, it was never in the plans for these two polar opposites to be in the ring together, let alone tagging up. At least not this soon anyway. WWE tried their hardest to keep Roman Reigns away from Daniel Bryan in hopes to protect him from the inevitable.

But once again, the fans forced their hands and by God am I so happy.

These two have such amazing chemistry. It's almost ironic considering the situation surround them. How much the powers to be only wishes to elevate one of them and failing to realize these two can create something special by growing side by side(or on opposite sides some days).

The way they feed off each other, interact and just look like they are having fun, has been entertaining me greatly . It doesn't feel like two wrestlers forced together and we have to watch them awkwardly try to make it work. They genuinely look like they are enjoying each other's company. There's a fire and drive surrounding both men and it will be interesting to see where this will lead.

This past Smackdown sold the feud for me. Whatever hesitance I may have had left, was eased. I was already warming up to these two guys going at it and Smackdown only reassured me.

If these men can translate their undeniable chemistry into their match, I think this may surprise a few skeptics.



-----------

[/CENTER]The booking of Roman Reigns and Daniel Bryan so far is pretty excellent. Considering the disaster that could have been born from the Rumble fiasco, WWE is doing a pretty great job at trying to rectify it. It doesn't excuse their incompetence, but I'm willing to be open minded.

I love the absolute aggression and edge we see in Bryan now. His evolution into a self confident and ass kicking machine is a much appreciated one. He's still the humble and lovely underdog we know and love, but he now has a bite with a hint of snark.

Bryan is no longer just a happy go lucky underdog who's just happy to be here and entertain. He's a man who has already proven his worth and will no longer stand back and let Authority- or anyone else dictate his path.

Daniel Bryan has come from the other side of adversity and hardships a smarter and stronger individual. He'd be damned if he doesn't get his just due.

And then there's Roman Reigns. No longer is the touted powerhouse spinning nursery rhymes and inspiring to be on Nickelodeon and low res copy of Cena or Rock. He's actually kicking ass and being unapologetic about it. He says what he needs to say and moves on. Heel or Face , there's a spear and Superman punch with your name on it. If you're in his way, he will make you move.

Roman's hopefully becoming the anti-hero he should have always been. We have our Superman. Can we please now have our Dark Knight?

WWE has been booking and developing Roman Reigns and Daniel Bryan these past couple weeks and I hope this trend continues.



---------

Now onto the real topic at hand. The episode of Smackdown-or one match in particular I should say-that has me writing this piece in the first place.

No matter how much you may enjoy a certain talent, sitting and watching them perform in the ring for an hour can be asking for too much. It's easy to become bored and just plain exhausted after a while, no matter how talented the individual is. Something pretty good or special would have to be going on to keep you excited and your attention for most of the showing.

Tag Team Turmoil could have easily been a mess of a match.

But the storytelling and psychology in the tournament really elevated what would have been a seriously dragging match. Instead of watching two guys just wrestle their way through most of the tag division. We saw two prideful talents struggling to be a functioning team.

We saw two mean, instead focusing solely on their opponents, they split their time show boating while trying to one up or taunt the other. You saw childish actions like tagging themselves in before the other was finished. Or refusing to tag in their partner or simply refusing to be tagged in themselves.

You also saw a bravado in the men that ensued in some hilarity.

"You call that a suplex?! This is a suplex! " Daniel Bryan boasted before performing a double arm suplex on Jey Uso. I loved how genuinely Roman laughed at Bryan's antics. These two are truly having a good time together.

Or when Roman quickly dismantled Slater Gator and speared poor Heath Slater. And then we watch Roman slither on to Heath for the pin. All while staring Bryan down for the full three count.

We pretty much saw two guys having a dick measuring contest. It was ridiculous. It was childish.. It was great!

They may have begrudgingly started tagging each other in as the match progressed, but the dissension between the two was palpable.



There was a moment in their bout with the Usos where Daniel Bryan was aggressively putting Roman's cousins into painful holds or repeatedly kicking them without remorse.

---------

Here we get another great storytelling and development in the unfinished character that is Roman Reigns.

---------

Family. They might be a weakness for the usually stoic big man. Several times he had to stop Bryan from beating the hell out of his cousins and got to the point where he refused to fight them anymore. Bryan smartly found a way to get under the Samoan's skin. Others may find it heelish, I just say Bryan has learned the game.

But, we get another interesting development. Roman may love his family...but winning and being number one just may be a higher priority. He ends up breaking Jey's pin on Bryan, much to Jimmy's dismay. The two end up coming to blows after an exchange of words and I wonder how this will progress in future episodes.

Either way, more awesome storytelling and psychology by WWE.

Match pretty much went on the same through the first four teams. Despite Bryan and Roman two behaving like terrible partners, they successfully went through the Usos, Miz/Sandow, Slater Gator and the Los Matadores. Through it all they bickered, they smugged and they taunted. This mismatched duo got through 80 percent of the tournament with relative ease.

But then the Ascension came in.



----------

And woah, their lack of teamwork almost paid a heavy price. To put it simply: They got the holy hell beat out of them until the referee decided to call mercy and kick the Ascension out.

Only when the Ascension is finally pushed out do the boys get a little breather as they laid sprawled outside the ring, curled up and groaning in pain. There may have been a moment where the two men felt relief. The onslaught was over.

But then comes Kane and Big Show to come finish what the previously DQd team wasn't allowed to do.

Here is where we see the storytelling start to shift in a new direction.

You start to see the change in Bryan and Roman; when they begin realizing they actually needed to work together. These two put aside their differences-even just for the night- and went to work to take out the Authority brusiers.

Two bickering giants. One Ko Punch. One Spear. One Running Knee later.

The team that should have never worked, won. Successfully made it through six team.

Adored the irony of Big Show and Kane imploding when the mission was for it to happen to Roman and Bryan. Great storytelling there.


---------

At the end, these two exhausted men-one proven Veteran and one driven Rookie-slumped against the ropes, realizing they actually made it out the the flames.

We watch Roman pick up a tired Bryan and they both look at each other. A silent conversation ensues , an understanding shared in that pivotal moment. They nod their heads at each other , a conquered fight through hell giving them something they didn't originally walk in with: a new found respect for their future opponent.

Roman and Bryan then stare up longingly at the WrestleMania sign, the common goal that connects them. A goal that will be a little closer in reach for the man who stands victorious over the other at Fast Lane.

Ready to go to the back, Roman simply pats Bryan on the shoulder and limps away, leaving the battered, but always spirited top star to celebrate with his adoring fans in explosive Yes! chants .



----------

Excuse my language, but Fuck was that storytelling so damn good. And it was only done so well because these men delivered perfectly in their roles.

This makes me wish we had a little more time before Fast Lane. A few more weeks to really flesh this out and let these two build an incredible feud and story.

I may have been skeptical before; hoping for the best and expecting the worst.

But damn, did they make a believer out of me. These guys are going to give us some great feuds in the years to come.

I can't wait to see what shapes out on Raw.
*




This was a little more than long winded and I apologize for such a long read. I went into full gush mode and couldn't stop. But I do hope you all enjoy.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE (Sep 12, 2013)

@WynterWarm12 :clap. I enjoyed your review.


----------



## Wynter (Nov 19, 2013)

@IDONTSHIV thank you, I really appreciate it. I wanted to go into more details, but the post was already running way too long. I'll learn how to be more concise and say what I need to say in fewer words in due time


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Listened to HBK's two part conversation with Jericho on his podcast earlier today and therefore got into the mood of exploring some of Shawn's matches I haven't seen before.

HBK vs Mr. Kennedy (Raw 21-1-2008) - ★★★½
*On par with their Armageddon match pretty much. Heard CAL praise so it was on my watchlist since his review of the aforementioned PPV. Good work by both and it makes me wonder, how was Kennedy able to perform well enough in his matches with Shawn, Benoit and Taker but against most others, he just sucked and did boring, redundant limb work with no purpose? I also rewatched the No Mercy match with Taker recently and it went up from the first time by quite a bit because that's probably the performance of his career.

HBK & Rey Mysterio vs The Miz & John Morrison (Raw 17-11-2008) - ★★★¼
*Enjoyable tag team action from everyone involved and all I can say is every time I watch Rey perform, it makes me miss him pre-2012 even more.

HBK & Stone Cold vs Owen Hart & British Bulldog (Raw 27-5-1997) - ★★★¼
*Heard a lot about this but wasn't up to expectations even if it's good. Liked the different approach in keeping the traditional tag team formula while making the action also more exciting and faster paced.

Anybody who's got some HBK recommendations from 92-96, bring it on! Say, when did that Yokozuna match take place where Shawn is wearing zebra pants?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

These are the 92-96 matches I listed when I looked to find whether or not Shawn had 50 good singles matches:



Spoiler: fghuio



Shawn Michaels v. Randy Savage (Rampage Tour 4/14/92)
Shawn Michaels v. Bret Hart (Rampage 6/2/92)
Shawn Michaels v. Bret Hart (Wrestling Challenge 7/21/92)
Shawn Michaels v. Davey Boy Smith (Saturday Night's Man Event 11/24/92)
Shawn Michaels v. Marty Jannetty (Raw 5/17/93)
Shawn Michaels v. Marty Jannetty (Raw 7/19/93)
Shawn Michaels v. The 1-2-3 Kid (Raw 12/6/93)
Shawn Michaels v. Razor Ramon (WrestleMania 3/20/94)
Shawn Michaels v. Razor Ramon (Raw 8/1/94)
Shawn Michaels v. Davey Boy Smith (Raw 3/6/95)
Shawn Michaels v. Jeff Jarrett (In Your House 7/23/95)
Shawn Michaels v. Buddy Landel (SMW Superbowl of Wrestling 8/4/95)
Shawn Michaels v. Razor Ramon (SummerSlam 8/27/95)
Shawn Michaels v. Owen Hart (Raw 11/20/95)
Shawn Michaels v. Owen Hart (In Your House 2/18/96)
Shawn Michaels v. The 1-2-3 Kid (Raw 3/4/96)
Shawn Michaels v. Leif Cassidy (Raw 3/25/96)
Shawn Michaels v. Bret Hart (WrestleMania 31/3/96)
Shawn Michaels v. Diesel (In Your House 4/28/96)
Shawn Michaels v. Hunter Hearst Helmsley (Raw 5/13/96)
Shawn Michaels v. Davey Boy Smith (King of the Ring 6/23/96)
Shawn Michaels v. Marty Jannetty (Raw 7/1/96)
Shawn Michaels v. Owen Hart (Raw 8/12/96)
Shawn Michaels v. Vader (SummerSlam 8/18/96)
Shawn Michaels v. Mankind (In Your House 9/22/96)
Shawn Michaels v. Sycho Sid (Survivor Series 11/17/96)



I didn't re-watch all of those so I might not think ALL of them are good but I probably do. Only really having second thoughts about the match with Sid


----------



## tboneangle (Jan 14, 2009)

Hey all what is everyone's ratings for the following mathes?

Flair vs Hbk mania 24
Bret vs diesel survivor series 95
Angle vs lesnar summerlsam 03
Angle vs Eddie wm 20
Bryan vs Orton vs Batista
Flair vs Steamboat chi town
Angle vs hbk vengeance 05
Bret vs Davey in your house 95?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Seen the last three of them, Mankind and Vader were good (first one is fantastic) and Sid match was mediocre. Also seen the first ladder match with Razor but it's been a long time and I might need to rewatch. For the next two weeks with Network access, I'll try to make my way through whatever Raw match I come across.

Good thing the like button makes it easier to access for future use.

And to rate matches in the post above mine.

Flair vs HBK - ★★★½
Bret vs Diesel - ★★★★
Angle vs Lesnar - ★★★★½
Angle vs Eddie - ★★★½
Bryan vs Orton vs Batista - ★★★★¼
Flair vs Steamboat - ★★★★½
Angle vs HBK - ★★★¾
Bret vs Davey - N/A


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

tboneangle said:


> Hey all what is everyone's ratings for the following mathes?
> 
> Flair vs Hbk mania 24
> Bret vs diesel survivor series 95
> ...


Flair vs Hbk mania 24: ***3/4
Bret vs diesel survivor series 95: ****3/4
Angle vs lesnar summerlsam 03: ****1/2
Angle vs Eddie wm 20: ***1/2
Bryan vs Orton vs Batista: ****
Flair vs Steamboat chi town: *****
Angle vs hbk vengeance 05: ***3/4
Bret vs Davey in your house 95?: ****1/2

Really random selection of matches bud


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

*NXT TakeOver: Rival 2/11*

Hideo Itami vs Tyler Breeze **

No Disqualification Match
Bull Dempsey vs Baron Corbin 1/4*

*NXT Tag Team Championship*
Wesley Blake & Buddy Murphy (c) vs Lucha Dragons (Sin Cara & Kalisto) *

#1 Contender's Tournament, Final
Adrian Neville vs Finn Bálor ***1/2

*NXT Women's Championship*
Charlotte (c) vs Bayley vs Sasha Banks vs Becky Lynch ***1/4

*NXT Championship*
Sami Zayn (c) vs Kevin Owens ***

Overall Rating: 6.0


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> So CM Punk and Tomoaki Honma were in the same ring at the same time at one point.
> 
> Thoughts on Homicide? I've been watching a lot of his work recently and he's pretty fun to watch and a very likable character. However, he does so much dumb shit in his matches and he relies too much on kicking out of other people's finishers.


If you can't tell by my username, I was a big fan of Homicide back in the day. He had a good mix of wrestling ability and could brawl with the best of them. I used to mark so hard whenever I got to see a Cop Killa. You'll probably just wanna watch his matches from 2006 and prior though. Throughout the past several years (during his MANY comebacks), he's worked extremely lazy. He got featured heavily in the first half of ROH 2011, but it wasn't very good. '03-'06 though, he was an important staple for the company.

One of my favorite Homicide matches that not everyone knows about:

Austin Aries(c) vs. Homicide (ROH World Title Match at Best of American Super Juniors Tournament)



Bubz said:


> Watched the tag turmoil from Smackdown and really enjoyed it. The Uso section was fucking great. Bryan was amazing in it. Booking him like the vicious little bastard he is instead of the happy go lucky babyface has been long overdue and watching this I remembered why Bryan is the absolute best. Reigns was really good too and both guys were fantastic out on the apron. Their interactions ruled because they have awesome chemistry. Really looking forward to their Fast Lane match.


I liked it as a whole and it really did well in progressing the Bryan/Reigns storyline, but there was so much damn stalling in the Usos portion that my interest faded in and out. I felt like they took at least 3 commercial breaks during that match and they were just standing there. 

For some strange reason, I really enjoyed watching the Ascension beat the hell out of them. :lol


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Thoughts on Flair/Savage Great American Bash 95? I thought it was fucking great. Simple story, Savage trying to avenge his father, such great work by Savage staying on Flair's ass even while getting a beating. Outstanding work from both men outside their prime.


----------



## NakNak (Feb 9, 2015)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> If you can't tell by my username, I was a big fan of Homicide back in the day. He had a good mix of wrestling ability and could brawl with the best of them. I used to mark so hard whenever I got to see a Cop Killa. You'll probably just wanna watch his matches from 2006 and prior though. Throughout the past several years (during his MANY comebacks), he's worked extremely lazy. He got featured heavily in the first half of ROH 2011, but it wasn't very good. '03-'06 though, he was an important staple for the company.
> 
> One of my favorite Homicide matches that not everyone knows about:
> 
> Austin Aries(c) vs. Homicide (ROH World Title Match at Best of American Super Juniors Tournament)


Dude, Homicide was crazy fun. He even make me LOVE a match that he had in 07 in the opener of the event with DAVEY RICHARDS (who i fucking hate). Yeah, he wasn't a GOAT or anything like that, but the dude was solid. My 2 favourite matches from him would be the Danielson match at Final Battle & the Match with Joe at Generation Next (i think, i'm not sure).

Also, Julio Smokes was the shit :grin2:

*PRRRRRRRRRRA!!!*


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I still think Homicide/Corino BFSE is probably one of the ten best ROH matches.


Spoiler:  thoughts from 2013



So this match is incredible. Like, I said shit about heels and face in ROH and brought up Corino’s name as really the stand out heel, and yeah, man, he is a total stand out heel. He even blows snot rockets in the direction of the crowd. Homicide, for a guy who’s gimmick is a Puerto Rican street thug who names himself after murder, is a really good babyface. This is just a complete an utter maniacal bloody brawl and I	wouldn’t be surprised if I thought it was a top ten ROH match when everything’s said and done. Corino was mainly responsible for causing the crowd riot after a match between these two earlier this year, and he hadn’t been in an ROH ring since. The riot itself actually adds a hell of a lot to the story. You had your Homicides and Samoa Joes holding fans back, but Corino just split. Homicide called him out again and again since, but Corino was avoiding him, wrestling in MLW, Zero-One and wherever else. He finally agrees to a re-match when Homicide mentions how Corino’s son must think he’s a chicken or something, and they wind up here. No handshakes, no honour, no ‘strong style’, just a mauling. You DO have you ‘strong style’-ish Japanese Yakuza kicks and ace crushers and shit, but that was usually with Homicide working on the bottom and needing a way to get back on top, so it all fit really well. Still, most of this is a violent ass kicking – scraping at open wounds, thrusting heads into barricades, hitting headbutts so hard they hurt the one throwing them, and that fucking SLAP. Corino wanting to leave after that SLAP was an awesome ‘sign of things to come’. He can’t take this fuckin SLAP and had to be pushed back into the match, so just imagine what’ll happen when Homicide’s hate hits 11. He wrecks Corino’s arm, is what happens. The barbed wire to the arm was nasty, digging it in there and scraping it across to really lacerate it. Homicide gets all Abby up in here and uses a fork and his own teeth, too. A really great sell of the arm by Corino throughout he whole match would have *really* put it over the top, but I’m fine with we got. Gabe was a rubbish as shit commentator as usual, spewing the “tope con hilo, DANGEROUS!!!” lines, almost ruining the SLAP for me and shit, but he brought up a couple of points I would have missed due to failed memory. So, about the tope, it’s ballistic. Corino kind of got in the way of the camera when Homicide connected with the guardrail, but you get a decent enough view to see that he may have honestly landed back-first on the steel part of the top of it. Gabe then brought up that Homicide missed a tope con hilo in the match with the big crowd riot, and Corino dragged Homicide in the ring and put a dragon sleeper on to win it. Corino puts a dragon sleeper on here, because he thinks the same thing could win him a match with the same person. Homicide surviving it felt really big, too. So yeah, I wouldn’t have picked on that if ROH didn’t have commentary. Fuck Gabe, though. Worst ever. Corino working over Homicide really put this over the top as a seriously great match. Homicide is Puerto Rican, so naturally when he blades he’s hitting a gusher, leaving pools of blood behind when he lays his had on the floor. Corino uses the barbed wire against him, rakes at the cut with his hands, slams his head violently against the guardrail, spits on Julius Smokes (who’s a pretty great ‘mah homeslice’ cheerleader), and hits maybe the best piledriver on a table ever; it wasn’t elaborately set up or anything. Homicide just need a break and rolled out to a table set up next the ring and Corino saw a great opportunity to kill him. There was a big superplex post-tope where Homicide sold it like he lost a kidney, which was a terrific sign that the tope truly had the worst possible impact on him. I could have used a near fall shaved off, but I didn’t feel like these two were overdoing it to the point where I actually wanted the match to just end. Guillotine Whoever throwing in the towel for Corino was a satisfying finish, as well. I’ll say again and again that Dragon v. London was an excellent match, but this totally blew it out of the water.



And just as I look up the name of that show, I find there's a Homicide/Corino from JAPW in 2002. :mark:


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/nxt/1583138-charlotte-better-wrestler-than-her-dad.html

guis, pls


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Look at who started the thread. I rest my case.

*Wrestlemania 2000:*

Big Boss Man & Bull Buchanan vs Godfather & D'Lo Brown - ★½
T&A vs Al Snow & Steve Blackman - ★★
Triangle Ladder Match - ★★★★
Terri vs Kat - 0
Too Cool & Chyna vs Radicalz - ★★¾
Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle vs Chris Jericho - ★★★¼
Rikishi & Kane vs DX - ★★
Triple H vs Mick Foley vs The Rock vs Big Show - ★★★½

Not a very good show for what seems to be a great year, but I'm expecting things to pick up from here.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

There's a Homicide/Corino barbed wire match in late 2003 (day after ROH The Conclusion), but I can't find it. Saw some excellent reviews for it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The barbed wire match is way inferior to the BFSE brawl. When I watched it for the 2000s list I didn't even finish it (I'd seen it before and knew it wasn't going to make it). 


me in 2003 again said:


> I didn’t need to finish the barbed wire rope Corino/Homicide. It’s a bit of a mixed bag. One on hand, Homicide trying to end the match early with pinfalls is smart. On the other hand, he was building the match up as Corino dying, and he was wearing his ‘I’m at my most dangerous’ Natural Born Killers attire. He went after Corino’s ear and clearly wanted to kill him, but he also wanted to the match….early? IDK. I kind of disagree with Craig and thought Homicide did a good job of putting the barbed wire over on first contact, but I do *totally* agree that it wasn’t built to enough. Felt like ‘oh, so that’s the first hit’. Comparing any barbed wire match to Kudo/Toyoda is setting it up for failure, but the first contact in that specific match literally gave me goosebumps (I’m being genuine there – I got goosebumps). Even if I cannot possibly have Kudo/Toyoda expectations for this, I think they should have done a better job building up to the first shot. Kind of felt lacking. A barbed wire match is kind of difficult in a blood feud, I think. The early parts of a blood feud match should really be two guys bum-rushing each other in a violent pile of anger. Here the barbed wire is in the way, and it forces them to be cautious, which can subtract from the violent bum-rushing. I remember the rest of this being good and I wouldn’t doubt I’d like it if I watched the whole thing now, but I’m a little strapped for time with all the stuff I want to watch, and can afford to cut off what I’ve seen once already mid-match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> These are the 92-96 matches I listed when I looked to find whether or not Shawn had 50 good singles matches:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, Michaels vs Sid didn't hold up. A good story, but the work in the ring isn't swell.

Still feel vs Mankind is the best singles match he's ever had.



tboneangle said:


> Hey all what is everyone's ratings for the following mathes?
> 
> Flair vs Hbk mania 24
> Bret vs diesel survivor series 95
> ...


1) not quite sure
2) Great
3) Great
4) bad
5) Great
6) (pretty much) Perfect
7) DUD
8) Great

Those Bret matches are fabulous. He ends '95 so strong w/those.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> For some strange reason, I really enjoyed watching the Ascension beat the hell out of them. :lol


b/c it works?



Lazyking said:


> Thoughts on Flair/Savage Great American Bash 95? I thought it was fucking great. Simple story, Savage trying to avenge his father, such great work by Savage staying on Flair's ass even while getting a beating. Outstanding work from both men outside their prime.


Yep, it's great. Big fan after I relived that show.



Yeah1993 said:


> The barbed wire match is way inferior to the BFSE brawl. When I watched it for the 2000s list I didn't even finish it (I'd seen it before and knew it wasn't going to make it).


Don't remember Homicide vs Corino barbed wire like I would prefer, but even then, I still always dubbed Necro vs Whitmer barbed wire from ROH infinitely >>>


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> Look at who started the thread. I rest my case.
> 
> *Wrestlemania 2000:*
> 
> ...


WrestleMania 16 being bad was an ingenious business move on the WWE's part. Backlash drew a fucking gigantic buyrate that year.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Finally watched Vader/Hashimoto (04/24/89) yesterday. Fucking loved it, some really nice arm work by Hash and Vader just slams Hash with sone lovely potato strikes lol.

Trying to watch some of Vader in Japan before his US work.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Thoughts on following Bret Hart matches:

vs HHH (Raw, October 1997)
vs Rocky Maivia (1997 March)
vs HBK (Survivor Series 1992)
vs Ric Flair (10/12/1992)
vs Ted Dibiase (December 1991)

have not watched any of these ever, would like to gain some thoughts on them?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

*Shawn Michaels vs Bret Hart* from SS 92 is great, their second best match together that I have seen. *****1/4* for it


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Cactus Jack vs. Vader (Full Unedited Version from Mick Foley DVD)/Vader/Harley Race Interview/Match Aftermath (WCW Saturday Night 04/17/1993)*

x2012gz

Watched this just now. Man those fucking shots by Vader.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> Thoughts on following Bret Hart matches:
> 
> vs HHH (Raw, October 1997)
> vs Rocky Maivia (1997 March)
> ...


Bare with me here cause I'm not good with dates:

vs. HHH (is this the same RAW that had Owen/Bulldog is Europe? If so, it's pretty solid. Nothing great, but solid)

vs. HBK SSeries '92 (Not a fan, Michaels does nothing but rest holds while dominating most of the match, then loses in quick fashion)

The match with Flair is on the Top 50 Superstars dvd, and I don't remember it being anything special. I think they just trade submissions for a while with no rhyme or reason. Bret & Flair never had the chemistry that they should have. Their match on the Dungeon Collection for the IC Title is better.

Haven't seen the other two.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

King Kenny said:


> Thoughts on following Bret Hart matches:
> 
> vs HHH (Raw, October 1997)
> vs Rocky Maivia (1997 March)
> ...


All crappy aside from the DiBiase match... but only cos I don't remember it so it could be crap or good. I'd say it's more likely to be good.


----------



## TomTom94 (Oct 18, 2013)

Hey I got a question for you guys. since their doing a Jerry lawler DVD set what matches do you think should be included?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TomTom94 said:


> Hey I got a question for you guys. since their doing a Jerry lawler DVD set what matches do you think should be included?


Empty Arena match with Funk.
The three main Loser Leaves Town matches with Bill Dundee.
Vs Flair.
Vs Dutch Mantell (x 2 or 3)
Vs Bockwinkle (maybe just the one)
Vs Savage (a bunch to choose from, probably the cage match)
Vs Andy Kaufman (because it just HAS to be on there tbh)

A bunch of tag matches could easily make the list, usually him teaming up with Dundee. And then there are matches with the likes of Bam Bam Bigelow, Austin Idol and others that I unfortunately haven't seen yet that others pimp.

Oh, those are JUST from Memphis. In the 1980's. I'd like to see his Raw match with HBK from 1995 on there, maybe a Bret Hart match though off the top of my head I can't think which one (not the biggest fan of their matches), Miz TLC from Raw for sure. I'd need to really look into a bigger list of his matches to pick more. Guy has one hell of a catalogue to pick from.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

What about that Wrestlemania clinic with Michael Cole? :troll

CAL, get back to 2007 PPVs already! The bad shit is already out the way. Do it at least for TAKER.


----------



## tboneangle (Jan 14, 2009)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Flair vs Hbk mania 24: ***3/4
> Bret vs diesel survivor series 95: ****3/4
> Angle vs lesnar summerlsam 03: ****1/2
> Angle vs Eddie wm 20: ***1/2
> ...


Haha Ya cuz I have recently re watched these and am torn on ratings for them


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Is it a given that WWE have access to full matches of Memphis, that we currently have in JIP form, like the Lawler/Savage match. 

I think there is a full Bret/Lawler and Savage/Lawler matches from USWA id like to see in full too.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I assume they'll include one and/or both of his matches with Miz (TLC match and WWE Title match at EC). I know very little about Lawler's work back in the '70s and '80s so I'll be interested to see what footage they own.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'd include the Lawler/Curt Hennig AWA title match (the one were Curt drops the title to Lawler on his way to WWF). I watched that a few years ago and remember it being superb.

Also. You can't have a Lawler set without including the No DQ match vs Terry Funk. That remains among the cream of the crop for fantastic Lawler baby face work, and Funk is at his absolute most diabolical.


----------



## NakNak (Feb 9, 2015)

Well guys, since you are talking about the Funker, can you tell me some of his best matches?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Finally got around to watching *Zayn/Owens*. Man, what a disappointment. I loved the way it started with Owens doing all that stalling just for Zayn to go after him, but my enjoyment really lessened from there on out. I know Zayn is one of the best underdogs in the world and they like going for that story, but I get kinda tired of seeing him wrestle the same match every time. There's no reason these two couldn't have just gone out there and had a huge slugfest and tore the house down, but I just didn't like the story they went for here. It seemed like the announcers were cued in what to say at all times to tell the audience what they were seeing. "We haven't seen this kind of dominance since Lesnar dominated Cena at Summerslam." Then as soon as Sami hit his head on the apron, they zoomed in on him with the camera and Albert said "look at Sami's eyes!". Ugh, I hate when the anouncers act like they know the outcome of a match. 

As a whole the match was solid, but I really hated the way they booked the ending. Real shitty way to win a belt or lose a belt by referee stoppage. I guess they needed a way to write Zayn off of televison for a while since he'll be in Abu Dhabi, but this just felt so flat down the stretch. ***** for it I guess?

As far as the rest of the show, I don't feel like typing up a big review, so here's some ratings:

Breeze vs. Itami - ** 3/4
Corbin vs. Dempsey - *
Tag Title Match - DUD
Balor vs. Neville - *** 3/4 (really liked this, borderline **** territory)
Women's 4-way - *** 3/4 (blew me away with how smoothly everything went)


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

NakNak said:


> Well guys, since you are talking about the Funker, can you tell me some of his best matches?


clean cut, mat wrestling, technical/southern style blended Terry Funk of most the 70s Funk's best matches were a little run against Harley and certainly vs Jack Briscoe and vs Jumbo in Japan in 76. Towards the end of the 70s in Japan where Terry started his second phase, he had some bloody yet fun brawls with his brother vs Abbdulah and usually the Shiek as his partner, sometimes Calon or others. 

1980s Funk in his most well known period was just on fire. So much versatility that decade and one of the best decades in ring a wrestler has had. Two awesome storytellers vs Lawler in the empty arena and No DQ, legendary brawls with his brother vs Hasnen and Brody in Japan, rough slugfests vs Hansen in Japan, Terry and Harley Race had a tough as nails slugfest feud in the early 80s as the Funks would take on Harley and friends on many occassions; in my eyes his best match is vs Funk in the I quit. Heck, while not his greatest, Funk had a solid contest with freakin Hogan as middle age and crazy 86 Funk and a fun little match vs Eddie in what I think is his major NA debut in 1989.

90s ECW hardcore Funk may not have had near the run 80s Funk did, but was in my eyes the greatest, most genuine seller of all time, did wonders in the early years in establishing young guys in that company and did have some very good contests including a great triple threat vs Douglas and Sabu that ended in a draw. Funk, Sandman and Richards is another fun old man Funk triple threat. Hell, the ECW ONS match Funk was involved in was great. Hell, the barbed wire match vs Sabu is a clinic in selling and sympathy for the face. 

You could pick a whole slew of matches for a top 10 of Terry, but a really rough one or at least an essential Funk piece could be
1. vs Flair I quit
2. vs Lawler no DQ
3. vs lawler empty arena
4. pick a Hansen/Brody vs Funks 80s japan brawl
5. vs Harley Race in 77 for the title in Toronto
6. vs Harley Race and Dick Slater with Dory in 82
7. vs Sabu barbed wire
8. vs Jack Briscoe NWA world title 73
9. vs Sabu and Shane Douglas triple threat draw
10. eh what the hell for fun vs Eddie in 98 in Eddie's North American debut.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Mexico is part of North America last time I checked.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Mexico is part of North America last time I checked.


Fair enough Faces my fault. UNITED STATES debut (I think).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

One day I'll actually burn off my Funk comp as i really want to see his prime work from the 70 ' s and 80's. 

I've only really seen his stuff with Flair and a couple of other bits and pieces.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cesaro & Sin Cara had a quality 15-minute match on Main Event this week. A lot of armwork from Cesaro and some nifty counters from Cara. He looked 300x better than he did at NXT Rival.  I dug it. *** 1/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> Thoughts on following Bret Hart matches:
> 
> vs HHH (Raw, October 1997)
> vs Rocky Maivia (1997 March)
> ...


iirc the Shawn match is trash b/c those two just about never had a single match vs each other than wasn't more than garbage. 

Flair match is poor too.

Don't remember the others. I'm sure Bret vs Ted kind of rules, b/c I've seen two singles matches w/em, and they, well, kind of ruled.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Finally got around to watching *Zayn/Owens*. Man, what a disappointment. I loved the way it started with Owens doing all that stalling just for Zayn to go after him, but my enjoyment really lessened from there on out. I know Zayn is one of the best underdogs in the world and they like going for that story, but I get kinda tired of seeing him wrestle the same match every time. There's no reason these two couldn't have just gone out there and had a huge slugfest and tore the house down, but I just didn't like the story they went for here. It seemed like the announcers were cued in what to say at all times to tell the audience what they were seeing. "We haven't seen this kind of dominance since Lesnar dominated Cena at Summerslam." Then as soon as Sami hit his head on the apron, they zoomed in on him with the camera and Albert said "look at Sami's eyes!". Ugh, I hate when the anouncers act like they know the outcome of a match.
> 
> As a whole the match was solid, but I really hated the way they booked the ending. Real shitty way to win a belt or lose a belt by referee stoppage. I guess they needed a way to write Zayn off of televison for a while since he'll be in Abu Dhabi, but this just felt so flat down the stretch. ***** for it I guess?


Exactly. I felt the same way about it. I get the underdog bit, and nobody does it better than Zayn, but not the way it should have gone. Not at all.

And while Hunico stinks, I was thinking about watching the match vs Cesaro on Main Event. Only b/c the ol "Claudio vs high flyer" formula is magic. He did the same w/Mistico in 2013.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

King Kenny said:


> one of my favourite matches ever. this is what the first thing i watched, and was an Austin fan and he became my favourite of all time. him and STING


back to this, since people just ignored it 

What wrestler/match brought you into wrestling?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

King Kenny said:


> back to this, since people just ignored it
> 
> What wrestler/match brought you into wrestling?


My first memory was sneaking down in the middle of the night to watch St Valentine's Day Massacre 99 with my brother, when I was 4. I remember falling in and out of sleep seeing as it was the early hours of the morning but when you're 4 years old and you see how The Big Show debuted, you never forget it.

Then it get's blurry - A mix of not having access to it on top of my parents doing everytthing they could to stop me watching it made it exremely difficult to watch, but I started watching religiously when my brother taped NWO 2004 for me and I saw Eddie defeat Brock. That's the match that hooked me forever and to this day, holds up beautifully. 

When JBL gave Eddie's mum a heart attack, I can remember finding a teddy with a cowboy hat that I had and stabbing to to pieces with a carving knife. I was an angry 9 year old 

So in answer to you question: 

Eddie Guerrrero & his match vs. Brock made me a lifelong fan, rather than a little kid watching it to fit in with his 15 year old brother.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rock oddly enough. First time I watched wrestling was the night after SvS 98 and Rock was hilarious to little me. With my brother, it has been Daniel Bryan. I've gotten him to like Tajiri and Foley, but Bryan is king to him.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ultimate Warrior and Bret Hart for me. Just loved the look of both of them, esp as a kid. Bret just seemed to have everything I was looking for when I started watching wrestling, even in the late 80's. 

Then the Undertaker debuted just after and i was like 'Whoa'.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

On the topic of Undertaker, what do people think some of his underrated matches are?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

King Kenny said:


> On the topic of Undertaker, what do people think some of his underrated matches are?




A lot of these are rated highly within this thread, but I don't see a lot of love for them outside, but then again I don't read a lot of stuff in the WWE section.

vs. Disel @ WM
vs. Flair @ WM 18
vs. Cena Smackdown 04
vs. Kane Smackdown April 08
vs. Festus on Smackdown 08
vs. Big Show in 08, basically the entire series. I want to say Cyber Sunday is the best, but I could be wrong.
vs. Jeff Hardy Smackdown 08 or 09, Extreme Rules match

Basically Undertaker (along with Nigel) was the BITW in 2008.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I can't say I have a match or a wrestler that actually got me into wrestling, because I've literally been watching it for my whole life with my dad. My earliest actual memory was seeing Piper tearing Goldust's clothes off dragging him around the arena at Wrestlemania 12 (age 4), then I can also remember where I was when I saw Mankind get thrown off the top of the cell (age 6). When I was younger, my dad would make the Paul Bearer noise and scare the hell outta me. :lol

Underrated Undertaker match? The MSG match with Bret from '92. Love it.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

King Kenny said:


> On the topic of Undertaker, what do people think some of his underrated matches are?


The two Smackdown matches vs. Batista in 2008 were all sorts of fun . Especially the No DQ one. Surprised no one ever talks about that match. The match against Festus that Flux mentioned is another overlooked gem. Taker made Festus look legit that night with Festus putting on a great performance as well. Loved the way they just hammer each other with punches and clotheslines throughout the match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'd mention the obvious 2008 ones but those have already been figured out. Though there's still a lack of mention for Taker/HHH somewhere in the fall on SD that year, one of their few singles matches that I actually liked. Also, from 2003: the A-Train matches, particularly SummerSlam 03. Not mindblowing or anything, but good enough. And the SD match w/Cena, even if the 04 match is superior.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Last year I was on a one man crusade to convince people how Taker/Vader from Canadian Stampede was incredible. Someone go watch it and give it a ton of shift-8s.

Decided to watch Luger vs. Yokozuna from Summerslam 93 this morning. The pre-match stuff went on for far too long, but the first few minutes of the match were actually pretty fun. I liked the attempted leg drop and elbow drop missing from Yokozuna as well as Luger evading Fuji's powder. The beginning portion of the meat of the match was also pretty interesting, but then they went to the outside which was a very bad mistake. I think Yoko then used a neverending nerve hold that also bothered me. Luger's comeback impressed me quite a bit though (outside of those terrible punches) and he had a good sense of a feel for the crowd and when to get his offense in. The attempted scoop slam that failed and later on a successful scoop slam by Luger was my favorite part of the match. 

Lots of hot action until that terrible ending. Like I would go as far as to say that Battleground 2013 had a better ending than that. They essentially made Luger look like the mother of all dumbasses with that celebration. For a guy that was pushed to the moon, I'm trying to figure out why Luger didn't win the title there. I mean I wish Lex Luger never existed, but even I would have liked to see him get the pinfall that night. What did Yokozuna even do for the rest of his title reign? Sounds like a very boring reign with only two or three real challengers.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, Luger not winning the title off of the Luger Express thingy and him being ultra hot was pretty stupid. But you're overacting a little there, FF. Worse than Big Show ruining an entire Main Event's ending (and match in general, that Orton/Bryan match was pretty sweet beforehand) for fuck you that's why? Nah. Battleground 2013 ain't EVER being topped as the worst PPV ending of all time. Except for Victory Road 2011... but even that was more hilarious than frustrating.

Oh, and Taker/Vader CS is awesome, indeed. Like, legit ***3/4-**** worthy, to hell w/it being the 'least good in the card' as its usually made out to be. I would give that honor to TAKA/Sasuke. But even THAT was great. Arguably the greatest showcase sprint of all time... or not, since Rey/Angle exists. If it wasn't for SummerSlam 2002, CS would be my pick for greatest PPV in WWE history. Better than WM's 17 and 19 for me, yes.


----------



## NakNak (Feb 9, 2015)

The wrestler who captivated me as a kid (I'm from the 98 generation, mind you) was Taker, and until this day he's the GOAT to me.

Speaking of Taker, not a "under-rated match", but a moment that's under-rated. I think it was DX vs Jeri-Show vs Taker/Cena. After the match, Taker did the tombstone to Cena. Yeah, a random moment, but everytime i watch that, i'm sad because we never got that match for the Streak at a WM ):


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Roman Reigns & Daniel Bryan vs The Usos - Smackdown 13.02.2015*
_With WWE matches being so formulaic these days when you get something like this it really stands out and becomes better viewing simply for it being something different. Something different isn't why this is great though. The dynamic between Reigns and Bryan is really great. Bryan does the majority of the work which will no doubt give Reigns haters plenty of ammo but Reigns was brilliant in this too. His work on the apron was awesome and he got the story of the match over better than Bryan did. Spot where Bryan's going HAM on the floor and Reigns breaks him off was awesome and played into the cousins dynamic really well too. Bryan's "this is how I win" line was a bit stupid as it's not how he wins but still. Bryan and The Uso(s?) really bring it to each other here too and have some awesome stiff exchanges where The Usos really bring the stiffness for a change too. This fall of the match went really long but it never felt long to fill time and it really benefited from having that time to let the story they were telling play out at a natural pace. This is my WWE MOTY right now and yes I've seen the Rumble and Zayn/Owens._

*Cesaro vs Sin Cara - Main Event 10.02.2015*
_Cesaro. New Sin Cara aka Hunico. On a show that WWE don't care about. With a good 15 odd minutes. Yeah there's reason to be excited about this and it didn't disappoint. I said just that one was my WWE MOTY but this one would have been (albeit for a short span of time) if I had watched it beforehand. Feels like it's been ages since Cesaro got a longish match with no restraints to just go out there and carry a match and an opponent doing his own thing which made it all the more welcome when it finally came along again here. Started off pretty slow and I worried it would be a letdown but it really pays off from the extended time it gets to allow it to develop into a match that gets better the longer it goes. Arm work from Cesaro is good and he looks super just working a body part in total control of a match. If only WWE would let guys like him work matches like this when they're paying attention. Sin Cara is still a bit too much of a body with a mask on that doesn't really omit much of anything which makes his FIP segment suffer but Cesaro is strong enough in control to make up for it. Really enjoyed Sin Cara getting the time for a control segment of his own in the comeback and getting to revenge the arm work by Cesaro with some of his own. Suicide dive armdrag into the rail looked really sweet. Finishing stretch then kicks it up to another level without ever being reliant on highspots and near falls. Bonus points for the finish feeling like a real struggle before one came out on top and coming at the peak of the momentum of the match too._


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

A massive favorite match of mine, and one the greatest in WCW history IMO. What i have uploaded are the promos and segments leading up to the big match, and of course the Starrcade classic itself.

Also the segments that occured during the PPV itself, with Flair and his family, Vader training for the match etc. They made this match feel so fucking special and huge.

WCW did a magnificent job of both hyping this match, and treating it as the big deal it was, esp on Flair's end.

*WCW Starrcade 1993 Announcement (WCW Saturday Night 11.27.1993)*

x2h94t0

*Vader Interview (WCW Saturday Night 12.11.1993)*

x2h963y

*Ric Flair Video (WCW Saturday Night 12.18.1993)*

x2h9739

*Ric Flair Interview (WCW Saturday Night 12.25.1993)*

x2h98el

*Vader vs Ric Flair (WCW Starrcade 1993 - Pre Show Buildup)*

From Live PPV Version Pre-Show

x2h9dy5

*Opening Video (WCW Starrcade 1993)*

x2h9hxw

*Vader vs Ric Flair (WCW Starrcade 1993 - PPV Buildup)*

All the buildup clips from the PPV, spliced together. Flair with his family etc.

x2h9ien

And of course the match:

DM DELETED THE FUCKING MATCH. But its here in 2 parts:

x1l6j3
x1l7c5

Enjoy. 

Also made a THREAD HERE: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/class...-flair-wcw-starrcade-1993-a.html#post45314458


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

My first memory of watching wrestling was seeing Vader vs Sting at Starrcade 1992 at my buddies house. I vividly recall seeing Vader with that weird head gear and Sting with the colorful face paint and just being hooked. I also remember around that time seeing a VHS tape over at that same friends house that had Hogan/Andre, Hogan/Warrior, Undertaker/Hogan, and several other matches and just watching them over and over. I was about 5 years old at the time and I continued watching every week until 2005. I stopped watching for several years when Eddie passed away and only started watching again when I was in college and heard Shawn Michaels and the Undertaker were gonna go at it at WM 25. I actually shelled out the $60 for the PPV because I wanted to see that match so bad, and seeing how amazing it was made me get back into it. Even then, I didn't start watching wrestling from Japan and the indies and lesser known talents until joining this thread in 2013.

I also vividly remember the first PPV I ever ordered, it was Bash at the Beach 1995, the event that actually takes place on the beach. No idea why that was the first I saw but I'll never forget how cool it was seeing guys wrestle in a ring on the beach.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bash at the Beach 1995, eh? Worth being lost from my family for half of it b/c I was seeing WRESTLING. 8*D

As for when or what got me into wrestling; details are sketchy. There are plenty of pictures of me as a baby/toddler fiddling w/wrestling figures and having whatever old school WWF show on in the background. So, it's been there from start to finish. Simple as that. As for who got me into it or kept in, well, Undertaker & Randy Savage, naturally.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

First wrestling memory has to be Flair vs Undertaker from WM18. I was 8 and it started getting hard to watch after he bladed because I felt bad for Flair. :lol

:lmao :lmao :lmao @ Big Show on Raw after WM2000.

x1kh2b

:lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Just nabbed the past SD & Main Event for the Turmoil & Cesaro vs Cara II. It's nice to be this excited for WWE matches, again.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The Abu Dhabi main made its way onto Youtube (Cena/Ambrose vs Rusev/Harper). Clocks in around 20 minutes and has two FIP spots with some really good control work by Rusev and hot tagging by Ambrose. Moment of the match is the American recording the match looking around and contemplating whether to start a USA chant against Rusev or not in the Arab arena. Most probably be better than anything on Raw so just watch that instead.

If anyone needs a link I'll add it in. On my phone, atm, so I can't do so currently.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Vader & Barry Windham vs. Sting & Dustin Rhodes (WCW Saturday Night 01.30.1993)*

x2hces9

Nice tag match here, with a great angle ending before the Vader/Sting Superbrawl match.

Also watched this really good Vader/Dustin Rhodes TV match from Saturday Night 1992:


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

for all the hatred the 619 gets, it is literally the sole thing that got me into wrestling initially as a child flipping channels


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

What do you guys wanna see to round out the Fast Lane card? So far:

Daniel Bryan vs. Roman Reigns (Mania shot on the line)
US Title Match: Rusev vs. John Cena
Divas Title Match: Nikki Bella vs. Paige
Sting & Triple H confrontation

What I'd like to see/expect to see:

The Authority (Rollins, Big Show, Kane) vs. Ziggler, Rowan, & Ryback
Tag Title Match: The Usos vs. Cesaro & Kidd
IC Title Match: Barrett vs. Ambrose (not sure if they'll pull the trigger for this one already)
Sheamus vs. Luke Harper (needs an opponent than he can go over & have a good match with in his return)

Maybe something in the preshow involving Miz/Mizdow or the Rhodes Bros? Maybe the losing team must split up??? Nothing for Wyatt right now.

They could also go the route of doing ALL of the authority (all 3 I mentioned plus J&J Security) against the 3 fired guys along with Sheamus and/or a returning Orton. That would work too.


----------



## TheChoppingMachine (Mar 25, 2014)

Yeah that Dustin/Vader is really good not as good as their 1994 match but still.

I think Batista spearing Undertaker off the stage is the first thing I remember, that really impressed me and probably make me like wrestling.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

thanks for recommending Sin Cara vs Cesaro from last week's Main Event

really good


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Am I the only whose first memory of wrestling isn't a match? My first memory of wrestling Rock throwing Austin over the bridge. I remember being really scared to that night. Thought he was dead. Needless to say I had to watch the following week.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

First memory of wrestling is Taker throwing Brock through the stage at Unforgiven, started watching after that mainly because of Taker/Brock and the tag title tournament on Smackown. The Katie Vick angle was at this time so it could have been that I suppose...


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

First wrestling memory? The GOAT Triple Threat aka :HHH2 vs. :hbk2 vs. KRISPIN WAH @ Mania 20.

Can't really ask for much better 8)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I kinda feel old when I read what everyone's first memory of wrestling is and they say things from 2000+ .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> I kinda feel old when I read what everyone's first memory of wrestling is and they say things from 2000+ .


Same here, but at the same time I feel a bit privileged too lol.

Big up for the fogies.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

#ROOT said:


> I kinda feel old when I read what everyone's first memory of wrestling is and they say things from 2000+ .


Same here, and I'm only 23!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Antonio Cesaro vs Sin Cara II - _WWE: Main Event 2/10/15_

Part of me kind of hates when random matches like this are meant to be a struggle when one guy - Sin Cara - is generally a nobody jobber, but it isn't like Cesaro has been used in a position to where another low card guy couldn't up and give him a challenge. That and to WWE's credit, Sin Cara was just recently an NXT Tag Team Champion, had a shot at the IC Championship, & has three notable wins on shows like RAW & SD. I'll give it the pass there. What I can't give the pass too is Sin Cara's lack of talents, even to the point where he's so poor that he can't even play a proper vessel for Cesaro to shine through. Thus the match lies in severe mediocrity for portions, before dipping into contrived junk I can't find any reason to care for & then I start to hate it. It's very Shawn vs Sid from Survivor Series 1996 to me. Only w/o the strong narrative. _(thus satisfying my needs and falling into "ok" territory)_ You have the better talent attempting to make something out of the lesser talent Yet, despite their best efforts, it wasn't a successful journey. You can tell right from the start Cesaro is calling the shots. They're both reading a book, but he's about 3 pages ahead of the masked man. Not too much a bother at first, you'd expect that. But never once throughout did it ever stop looking like that and morph the mediocre aspect of one side to blend it into making it a good match, filled w/good showings on both ends. Really obvious spot calling for one was a key in constantly taking me out. Sin Cara wasn't being carried, it was Cesaro having to lift dead weight w/one hand. I remember a Paige vs Naomi match (yes, Divas reference.) from last year where the very vocal spot calling justifiably got them shat on. Felt the similar to me here at times. Cesaro having to keep this guy in line & even w/a mask covering his face, I can hear the murmurs & know he's clearly talking, waiting to know the need for the next spot. Akin to the aforementioned Shawn vs Sid match. Maybe it's too much of a little thing that bothers me, but I can't get sucked into something when it's excruciatingly obvious that something is stopping the match from reaching any kind of next level - other than low - to move into. I don't discredit anything Cesaro did here. He was good. Per the norm, the whole ten yards, etc. It was just the lesser party that didn't work for me. Chalk up some instances in the end that were basically the expected route - top rope head scissors counter for the final near fall ---> top rope attempt while Cesaro is standing b/c he needs to uppercut him - & I'm sitting on my hands wondering where the good match was and if it happen earlier. 

I give credit for WWE allowing this to happen & hopefully Cesaro gets more chances w/other talents. This wasn't Christian vs Ezekial Jackson type stuff, like I had hoped. Or even Cesaro vs Mistico/original Sin Cara circa 2013 Main Event. Which captured the essence of Cesaro vs high flyer much, much more effectively.

----------

*Tag Team Turmoil Match*

Daniel Bryan & Roman Reigns vs Kane & Big Show vs Jimmy Uso & Jey Uso vs Konnor & Viktor vs Mike Mizanin & Damien Sandow vs Heath Slater & Titus O'Neil vs Diego & Fernando - _WWE: Smackdown 2/10/15_

Thought this match was rather brilliant. It was pieced together w/multiple elements, rather than just one or two teams via pecking order were tougher than some others. Each fall had its own telling story among the chemistry, or lack there of, within Danielson & Reigns attempting to fight through all the odds stacked against em.

vs Miz & Sandow to start, which was apt on the point of themselves being a duo on the outs. So it was fairly even side to side. The apron work & facials of both Danielson & Reigns served to drive this fall for the minor duration it went & yep, it ruled. Reigns talking ultimate trash as he pounded Miz down is a hell of a spot to watch. It's hitting so many sweet spots when you break it down.

Next up were the Usos, and again, great job at having them early so you can make this fall as deep in numerous variables as it was, and how Danielson/Reigns were so fresh from the first match being a breeze, it really felt as if they had to co-exist vs the champions from scratch. Knowing it was going to be a supremely difficult challenge to actually survive this, than be catty and win out the first time around. This is where Danielson REALLY got to slay. He got a chance to tap into "being Bryan Danielson". The aggression, the style, the trash talking, the all around aura screamed pre-WWE AmDrag. It was out of this world. Especially the part on the floor when he's killing one of the Usos and Reigns comes over to stop em; relying on the family undertones to assure him to win clean, not mean. Then we get fuming Danielson screaming out _"DON'T YOU EVER...DON'T YOU EVER TELL ME HOW TO WIN."_ Goosebumps. Credit to the Usos for actually providing strikes almost equal to those Danielson was dishing out, b/c he was going hard on em. While they were more or less cogs in the machine for the bigger picture, they didn't let themselves become complete blurs, which was welcomed. This entire fall was great. The family storyline completely ruled too. 

Using the next two teams to be swift outings for each guy apiece, well, it followed suit & inspires my repetition b/c it ended up coming off great too. Danielson breaking down the Matadores w/his methodical offense, meanwhile Reigns pulverizes Slater Gator in sheer seconds w/his full throttle offense. Excellent pieces to the puzzle. 

The next to come was The Ascension & I was very curious at how they were going to make this work. Ended up loving this portion, almost as my favorite b/c I thought they did yet another great job in making a team that didn't need to "lose" look super duper well at the end of it. I'd actually say Ascension left this looking the best, only behind Danielson & Reigns, of course. They come in w/the two nearly on empty, not having any communication as a duo & feeling as if they can make it to the end all on their own. Then boom, the bruisers make it into the match. Danielson tries to fight em off, but those two monsters are on him w/malice. Reigns attempts to reignite the chemistry, but no go. He's taken out just as fiercely as Danielson is & it is a beat down that looked real rugged & right down the proper alley it needed. Ref chucking it out on the over blown violence was rad. A wise move as The Ascension didn't need to beat them to make an impact. Laying out the two dudes who are fighting to main event WM was a HUGE boost to their credibility. 

Story sees Danielson & Reigns at the last gasp and then out comes the Authority oriented pairing of Show & Kane, and well, take the story from there and throw out the fairytale ending, so to speak. Now I'm not quite certain why Kane & Show had so much heat off a tiny moment in the match. That was kind of the only part that seemed to be a touch shoehorned, while all the rest of the elements in this came off w/o a hitch. Nonetheless their bickering gave off some fun banter. Show talking trash is awesome. He's got Danielson crawling for his life & he's giving Reigns tons of shit like it is purely his fault. Man, I love heel Show. Big nasty bastard really can work like a charm in these situations. He's a brute & smug all at the same time. You'd love to hate that in attendance. Well anyways, the Show & Kane squabble escalates, Show ends up hitting Kane and I'm kind of like "eh" on that ending. Mostly b/c Authority issues feels more passe than them still being around & I would have liked to see Danielson & Reigns eek out the W w/o any aspects like that, however, the full circle plan they wanted to spin ended up coming together better than it did making any of it fall apart. 

So, this really, really worked. I can say I did love it & thought it was a hell of an effort to utilize how excellent Danielson & Reigns are respectively. This match only shows it. I didn't need convincing to be very excited for their match at Fast Lane. Yet, I think I'm more pumped to see the payoff after witnessing this.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ambrose/Harper is worth going out of your way to see.


----------



## Lok (Apr 8, 2008)

wrong thread


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The ending to RAW tonight! :mark:

Two good matches in Ambrose/Harper and Show/Bryan (which was borderline great before the DQ finish). The stuff that happened during the commercial break for Show/Bryan was really good and should've been on television.

Good go-home show to Fast Lane. Ambrose/Barrett and Cesaro & Kidd vs. Usos were both made official, the Divas stuff was watchable, PTP reunion, a fun sprint in Ziggler/Rollins, Stardust finally turned on his family (again?), and Cena beat the living hell out of Rusev. I missed all the Flair stuff though.  Oh and Wyatt cut like 3 promos about Taker.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Solid Raw. Been a long time since I thought that. Brawl was real solid, fun way to end the show and explode that implied animosity. While obviously filled with plotholes, taking things for what it is (a wrestling show), Dean forcing BNB to sign was funny, Dean/Harper was decent, PTP likely are back is very welcome news to a dead tag division, for whatever reason, the little Rusev/Cena exchange I enjoyed. Even though seems like we have said this every year for awhile now, but it really seems like they're planting the seeds here for a mania Dust bros. match I assume riding Goldust's one of a kind roller coaster career into the sunset. Good job keeping up with the Taker references by Bray in the promos and nice little touch driving the nail into the casket. Nice that we won't just have a hokey literally "here I'll point at the sign and so will you and that'll be it" build. 

Only two small complaints would be that if you have Dusty Rhodes in the house, I'd use that guy's abilities to connect situations to people and his mike skills more effectively and longer than a quick backstage segment and I'm sorry, but even though it makes sense with Sting's career history being riddled with fighting power hungry staples and Taker is a huge physical question mark, but damn I just cannot get into this Hunter/Sting feud much because it doesn't feel natural at all and wreaks of Hunter latching on for something big to do without a dance partner so to speak. Feels too forced for me to get into. I understand though with HHH being in the best shape of his life and Taker being in whatever shape he is in, especially coming off a serious concussion from a simple takedown.


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

The fact that two of my absolute favourite guys are feuding should not make my stomach turn, but it does. I'm pretty upset that Ambrose has been all but confirmed to be the odd one out, especially during the build up to the Roman Reigns Wrestlemania.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Reigns no selling chair shots is where I kind of had to draw the line at the end. It's probably nothing towards him & his abilities, but jesus, what an omission.

RAW was the same ol song & dance.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Thought the end of RAW was fun as hell. I'm super excited for that match. I agree Reigns no selling the chair shot was bad but apart from that it was great and they worked in the fact that Reigns will have an upper hand in a brawl like that, he tossed Bryan around like nothing for a little bit there. Bryan playing this character is reminding me so much of pre-WWE Bryan that it makes my tinker a little hard.

Oh my god, I looked at the RAW thread and it's full of people arguing on who would win in a real fight Reigns or Bryan :lmao this fucking place.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> Am I the only whose first memory of wrestling isn't a match? My first memory of wrestling Rock throwing Austin over the bridge. I remember being really scared to that night. Thought he was dead. Needless to say I had to watch the following week.


First wrestling memory for me, _besides_ playing with Hogan and George "The Animal" Steele toys my friend owned, was Shawn kicking Marty through the glass and a random Undertaker/Bearer promo. Both kind of freaked me out:lol

I never really got into it then - later on it was Mysterio/Malenko in an outdoor Nitro that really got me hooked. Those poor pillows and bedsprings I beat the hell out of trying to reenact the action after seeing that



Bubz said:


> Thought the end of RAW was fun as hell. I'm super excited for that match. *I agree Reigns no selling the chair shot was bad* but apart from that it was great and they worked in the fact that Reigns will have an upper hand in a brawl like that, he tossed Bryan around like nothing for a little bit there. Bryan playing this character is reminding me so much of pre-WWE Bryan that it makes my tinker a little hard.
> 
> Oh my god, I looked at the RAW thread and it's full of people arguing on who would win in a real fight Reigns or Bryan :lmao this fucking place.


I thought it was less Roman "no-selling" it, and more Joseph Anoa'i selling it Reigns "Joe-sold" it, if you will.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Just cause.

My first memories come in a bit of a cluster. I remember a Yokozuna taker casket match that absolutely blew my mind. I also remember jerry lawler and bret hart and their kiss my foot angle, and then I remember a bunch of midget doinks and a bunch of midget lawlers. 

Oh, and I also remember being really psyched when hacksaw came out and helped hogan, or vice versa.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Complete match listing for_ ECW Unreleased Vol. 3_:



Spoiler: Listing



*DISC 1*
You Know Who I Am
*ECW Tag Team Championship Match*
Shane Douglas & Tommy Dreamer vs. The Tazmaniac & Kevin Sullivan
_Hardcore TV • December 14, 1993_
2 Cold Scorpio Drops Bombs
*ECW Television Championship Match*
Too Cold Scorpio vs. Dean Malenko
_Hardcore TV • November 29, 1994_
*ECW Championship Match*
Shane Douglas vs. Ron Simmons
_Hardcore TV • January 24, 1995_
I Got the Paint, Rocco!
Public Enemy Paint a Portrait of Sabu
*No Disqualification Match for the ECW Tag Team Championship*
The Public Enemy vs. Sabu & Tazmaniac
_Hardcore TV • January 31, 1995_
Taz & Eddie Guerrero vs. 2 Cold Scorpio & Dean Malenko
_Hardcore TV • July 18, 1995_
*“Olympic Rules” Match*
Cactus Jack vs. Sabu
_Holiday Hell • December 29, 1995_
I’m Going to Call 911
Rey Mysterio & 911 vs. The Eliminators
_House Party • January 5, 1996_

​*DISC 2*
Something to Strut About
Cactus Jack vs. Bam Bam Bigelow
_Just Another Night • February 23, 1996_
Cactus Jack is Ruined Merchandise
*ECW Television Championship Match*
Chris Jericho vs. Shane Douglas
_Allentown, PA • July 12, 1996_
Not the Simon System
*ECW Championship Match*
Raven vs. Tommy Dreamer
_Hardcore TV • August 13, 1996_
*ECW Tag Team Championship Match*
The Eliminators vs. The Dudley’s
_Hostile City Showdown • March 15, 1997_
A Welcome Home Party for Mr. Monday Night
Taz vs. Rob Van Dam
_Hostile City Showdown • March 15, 1997_
The Underrated Stevie Richards
Stevie Richards’ Lifelong Journey
*#1 Contender Three-Way Dance*
Sandman vs. Big Stevie Cool vs. Raven
_Asbury Park, NJ • May 2, 1997_
*ECW Championship Match*
Terry Funk vs. Big Stevie Cool
_Asbury Park, NJ • May 2, 1997_

​*DISC 3*
Look What I Found
*ECW Championship Match*
Shane Douglas vs. Bam Bam Bigelow
_Hardcore TV • October 25, 1997_
Everything About Triple Threat is a Shoot
*“Tag Champion vs. Tag Champion”*
Lance Storm vs. Chris Candido
_CyberSlam • February 21, 1998_
Yoshihiro “The Taz Killer” Tajiri
*ECW Championship Match*
Taz vs. Yoshihiro Tajiri
_Hostile City Showdown • June 26, 1999_
The Greatest Tag Team of All-Time
*ECW Tag Team Championship Match*
Spike Dudley & Balls Mahoney vs. The Dudley’s
_ECW on TNN • September 3, 1999_
*ECW Tag Team Championship Match*
The Dudley’s vs. Tommy Dreamer & Raven
_ECW on TNN • September 3, 1999_
Raven Hits Bourbon Street
BLUEper Reel
Extreme Outtakes
*ECW Television Championship Match*
Rob Van Dam vs. Rhino
_Poughkeepsie, NY • October 22, 1999_
Tommy Dreamer & Dusty Rhodes vs. Steve Corino & Rhino
_ECW on TNN • February 4, 2000_
Kid Kash vs. E.Z. Money
_Anarchy Rulz • October 1, 2000_
*Double Jeopardy Match for the ECW Championship*
Jerry Lynn vs. Justin Credible vs. Steve Corino vs. The Sandman
_November to Remember • November 5, 2000_
The Best in Your Future Endeavors​*BLU (WORLD ORDER) -RAY EXCLUSIVES*
Tommy Dreamer, Cactus Jack & The Pitbulls vs. Raven, Stevie Richards, Dudley Dudley & Big Dick Dudley
_WrestlePalooza • August 5, 1995_
Rob Van Dam (w/ Brian Pillman) vs. Mikey Whipwreck
_Hardcore TV • June 11, 1996_
Unreleased Deleted Scene: Sorry, Sal Philly
Paul Heyman Directs Danny Doring
Terry “Bam Bam” Gordy & “Dr. Death” Steve Williams vs. The Eliminators
_High Incident • October 26, 1996_
Unreleased Deleted Scene: I Have a Tommy Dreamer Story
Dudley Driving School
Justin Credible & Mike Awesome vs. Jerry Lynn & Masato Tanaka
_Hardcore TV • July 29, 1998_
Unreleased Deleted Scene: Maven Disappeared!
Raven Throws Sandman’s Son a Birthday Party
*ECW Television Championship Match*
Rob Van Dam vs. Jerry Lynn
_Crossing The Line • February 12, 1999_​



I imagine this is gonna be the last one of these they release. Looks pretty interesting on paper. Plenty of solid looking matches.
​


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

I absolutely loved ECW in it's heyday. However, I just cannot watch their DVDs from WWE because, for me, the original music is what makes it great. The energy from "Natural Born Killaz" or *insert song here* made it unique and having generic shit makes it unbearable to watch. The songs also go over the crowd which was another great piece of ECWs puzzle. Much rather watch original shitty quality with shitty audio than HD DVDs.



> ECW Championship Match
> Shane Douglas vs. Bam Bam Bigelow
> Hardcore TV • October 25, 1997
> Everything About Triple Threat is a Shoot


That is one of my favorite moments in wrestling history. I've watched this more times than I can count. I saw this live on HCtv and didn't think there was a chance in hell Bam Bam would win and I'm sure NY thought the same thing. The pop he got when he won was godly.

This thread is really depressing nowadays. I think it goes to show how terrible the product is today despite most stuff here not being current stuff. I miss the days where there'd be a few posts per hour and talk about bad to great matches. *sigh*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well bugger me sideways, that ECW set actually has ONE MATCH on it I want to see! Which is one more than both the other sets combined! Had no idea Cactus had a match with Bigelow. I shall check it out 2morrow or something.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Rewatching these old Legends Of Wrestling Roundtable that are on the nextwork. This show is just so good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, Cactus vs Triple B is something I have to see. Mysterio teaming w/911 vs Eliminators sounds kind of amazing too.


----------



## machomark (Dec 5, 2014)

I haven't been in here for a week and a half.

Mixture of 3 things, personal life, watching Raw and tuning out when I heard Big Show and Kane were going against the top FACES in the double main event.

And I've been playing the shit out of WWE2k15.

Not the thread for this but my god, I've never had so much fun playing universe mode, I have like 60 CAW's, all legends, 2 brands, one WCW, one WWE, I got all the great shows like WCW Saturday Night.

Havin my own Lord Steven Regal vs Belfast Bruiser, and my cruiserweight division has got everyone from Calo to Parka.

Ahhh, anyway. 


On Topic....

*I need to know...

Outside the NXT show I watched this morning, what matches have been great here in February?
*
Any? at all?

This is the first time since September I've missed about 2 Smackdown's and 1 and a half Raw's.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

You can catch this week's Raw. Was pretty good for the most part. Ambrose vs Harper, Rollins vs Ziggler and Bryan vs Big Show were decent matches.

Tag team turmoil from last week's SD was pretty good as well. Reigns and Bryan tagged to take on several teams.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Great? Well you're setting your standards much too high, but Tag Team Turmoil from Smackdown last week was up to that quality. That's it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

machomark said:


> *I need to know...
> 
> Outside the NXT show I watched this morning, what matches have been great here in February?
> *
> ...


Great? None. Been a few good matches though. Bryan/Rollins from RAW 2 weeks ago probably tops the bunch, Cesaro/Cara from Main Event was good and took me back to when I wanted to actually watch that show, and... well tag team turmoil was good for the Reigns/Bryan progression but I wouldn't call it a great match personally. It definitely worked as a whole though.

If Bryan/Show had a proper finish, it would've fallen into the 'really good' category. I was really liking what they were doing down the stretch there. Ambrose/Harper was solid too.

Fast Lane could certainly give us some great matches though, particularly Cena/Rusev and Bryan/Reigns. Tag Title & IC Title match both have potential as well. I still say they need to make an Authority vs. Fired Guys 6-man tag.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Barry Windham Interview (NWA Crockett Cup 04.11.1987)*

Taken from the Raw Footage.

x2hkhuz

Uploaded this. Barry breaks kayfabe and talks bout his move to WWF etc.

Started a litle Windham project after finally sorting out my Windham comp.
Starting with watching the Flair trilogy first, then i found Rah's list of recommended matches and going to try and go through some of that.

Crockett Cup match with Flair is next up.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Aside from a couple of iffy moments the NXT women's four way was really good and a ton of fun. I'll be adding that to my list. Still need to watch Zayn/Owens, Cesaro/Cara and Tag Turmoil.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Today I learneded: David Crockett used to be a wrestler!!!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched the three big Flair/Windham matches. Id rank them in order thus:

Barry Windham Vs Ric Flair (86-02-14)
Barry Windham Vs Ric Flair (87-01-20)
Barry Windham Vs Ric Flair (87-04-11)

Ill check out more Windham the weekend.  Like i said, i found Rah's list of recommended matches from an old thread he made so ill go through some of that with the matches i have.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I approve of that order. It is the correct order.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Brock said:


> Watched the three big Flair/Windham matches. Id rank them in order thus:
> 
> Barry Windham Vs Ric Flair (86-02-14)
> Barry Windham Vs Ric Flair (87-01-20)
> Barry Windham Vs Ric Flair (87-04-11)


Which of the '87 matches is the one from Flair's DVD set? 1/20, I think? Yeah, I prefer that one slightly to '86. Both are godly. Haven't seen the other '87 one.

Are these the only really elite Windham singles matches? I like some of his NWA title defenses in WCW, but the only non-Flair matches I'd rate **** or more are tags.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bruce L said:


> Which of the '87 matches is the one from Flair's DVD set? 1/20, I think? Yeah, I prefer that one slightly to '86. Both are godly. Haven't seen the other '87 one.
> 
> Are these the only really elite Windham singles matches? I like some of his NWA title defenses in WCW, but the only non-Flair matches I'd rate **** or more are tags.


Yup, 01/20 is the one on the Flair DVD. This is Rah's list of Windham matches (of course full credit to Rah (Y))

1. 86-02-14 Barry Windham Vs Ric Flair (CWF)
2. 87-04-11 Barry Windham Vs Ric Flair (NWA)
3. 92-05-17 Dangerous Alliance (Anderson/Eaton/Austin/Zbyszko/Rude) Vs Sting's Squadron (Sting/Koloff/Rhodes/Steamboat/Windham) (WCW)
4. 87-01-20 Barry Windham Vs Ric Flair (NWA)
5. 91-02-24 The Four Horsemen (Windham/Flair/Zbyszko/Vicious) Vs Sting's Squadron (Sting/Pillman/Steiners) (WCW)
6. 88-04-20 Barry Windham & Lex Luger Vs Tully Blanchard & Arn Anderson (NWA)
7. 92-12-28 Brian Pillman & Barry Windham Vs Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas (WCW)
8. 88-01-23 Barry Windham Vs Tully Blanchard (NWA)
9. 92-02-29 Barry Windham & Dustin Rhodes Vs Larry Zbyszko & Steve Austin (WCW)
10. 88-03-27 Lex Luger & Barry Windham vs Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard (NWA)
11. 91-05-19 Barry Windham Vs Brian Pillman (WCW)
12. 93-06-17 Barry Windham Vs 2 Cold Scorpio (WCW)
13. 83-07-04 Harley Race vs. Barry Windham (CWF)
14. 88-12-07 Ric Flair & Barry Windham Vs The Midnight Express (WCW)
15. 83-11-16 Barry Windham vs. Ron Bass (CWF)
16. 90-12-16 Doom Vs Barry Windham & Arn Anderson (WCW)
17. 89-01-21 Ric Flair & Barry Windham Vs Eddie Gilbert & Ricky Steamboat (WCW)
18. 93-04-27 William Regal Vs Barry Windham (WCW)
19. 86-??-?? Barry Windham Vs Terry Funk (WWC)
20. 91-04-06 Barry Windham Vs Brian Pillman (WCW)
21. 88-04-10 Barry Windham Vs Tully Blanchard (NWA)
22. 87-01-13 Barry Windham Vs Ric Flair (NWA)
23. 93-07-03 Barry Windham, Steve Austin & Brian Pillman vs Ric Flair, Arn Anderson & Paul Roma (WCW)
24. 91-04-27 Barry Windham Vs Brian Pillman (WCW)
25. 88-03-31 The Four Horsemen (Flar/Arn/Tully) Vs Sting, Lex Luger & Barry Windham (NWA)
26. 91-04-07 Barry Windham Vs Brian Pillman (WCW)
27. 87-03-14 Barry Windham & Ron Garvin vs. Dick Murdoch & Ivan Koloff (NWA)
28. 91-03-21 Brian Pillman Vs Barry Windham (WCW)
29. 89-02-20 Lex Luger Vs Barry Windham (WCW)
30. 87-09-12 Barry Windham vs. Arn Anderson (NWA)
31. 87-21-02 The Midnight Express Vs Ron Garvin & Barry Windham (NWA)
32. 93-01-02 Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas Vs Barry Windham & Brian Pillman (WCW)
33. 88-04-02 Barry Windham & Lex Luger Vs Tully Blanchard & Arn Anderson (NWA)
34. 85-02-16 Barry Windham Vs Dick Murdoch (WWF)
35. 92-10-20 Barry Windham & Dustin Rhodes Vs Steve Austin & Steve Williams (WCW)
36. 88-12-26 Bam Bam Bigelow Vs Barry Windham (WCW)
37. 88-01-16 Sting & Barry Windham vs. Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard (NWA)
38. 87-09-05 Barry Windham vs. Arn Anderson (NWA)
39. 88-11-26 Ric Flair & Barry Windham Vs Dusty Rhodes & Bam Bam Bigelow (WCW)
40. 87-09-19 Barry Windham vs. Lex Luger (NWA)
41. 87-07-18 Barry Windham Vs Tully Blanchard (NWA)
42. 87-11-14 Barry Windham Vs Rick Steiner (NWA)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Windham is one of the greatest wrestlers of all time. That list doesn't include the 87 Murdoch match which is probably one of the best matches I've ever seen. Also missing every Austin singles match from 92, the Arn matches from 11/91 and 6/6/92, the Sting match from an early Clash I hear is great but never saw, the awesome 2/22/92 tag, the less awesome but still awesome 1/21/92 tag, Flair/Windham v. Gilbert/Luger 3/25/89, and probably a buncha other sheeit I don't remember or haven't even seen. Windham is one of the greatest wrestlers of all time.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Brock said:


> 87-04-11 Barry Windham Vs Ric Flair (NWA)
> 87-03-14 Barry Windham & Ron Garvin vs. Dick Murdoch & Ivan Koloff (NWA)
> 87-21-02 The Midnight Express Vs Ron Garvin & Barry Windham (NWA)


Does anyone have any of these, and if so, could they be uploaded? In terms of the Flair Crockett Cup match, I'm talking about a version that isn't cut to crap. Versions that are, sadly, are plentiful on the interwebs.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I really should go back and edit in the other matches I've seen by now to fill that out. Also to get into all the actually pimped stuff. The pack I managed to get (amongst others) from XWT was shite. Also, Brock! Please watch

88-04-20 Barry Windham & Lex Luger Vs Tully Blanchard & Arn Anderson (NWA)

The character work :eddie



Bruce L said:


> Does anyone have any of these, and if so, could they be uploaded? In terms of the Flair Crockett Cup match, I'm talking about a version that isn't cut to crap. Versions that are, sadly, are plentiful on the interwebs.


Ignore what I originally typed, I completely misread what you typed. Long day at work I assume. Will get the links now, otherwise will try upload them. I've got proper Africa-level net so it may be a while. 


*87-04-11 Barry Windham Vs Ric Flair (NWA)*





*87-03-14 Barry Windham & Ron Garvin vs. Dick Murdoch & Ivan Koloff (NWA)*





*87-21-02 The Midnight Express Vs Ron Garvin & Barry Windham (NWA)*






*87-16-05 The Midnight Express Vs Ron Garvin & Barry Windham (NWA)*





Give the other two links a try, so long.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Will do Rah (Y) I've dug out Goodhelmet Windham comp so ill check a few out from your list.

Misread Bruce's post lol. The whole Crockett Cup '86 is on YT I know that. The Raw uncut footage too i think.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

I did find the Flair/Windham "raw" version on Brock's DM channel, but not the tags; thanks for the YouTube links as well.

I'll make a further pain-in-the-ass of myself, if nobody minds, by asking if anybody has the match, from a few months after the Midnight Express tag, where Windham & Garvin fought the Eaton/Lane version of the Midnights. I've heard really good things about that one, and have been looking for it for some time.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bruce L said:


> I did find the Flair/Windham "raw" version on Brock's DM channel, but not the tags; thanks for the YouTube links as well.
> 
> I'll make a further pain-in-the-ass of myself, if nobody minds, by asking if anybody has the match, from a few months after the Midnight Express tag, where Windham & Garvin fought the Eaton/Lane version of the Midnights. I've heard really good things about that one, and have been looking for it for some time.


I did forget i uploaded that match lol.  Although i do have a better quality version, which im sure is on YT TBH.

If you can spot the date of that tag match from this lot, ill have it:



Spoiler: Midnight Express



Midnight Express (32 Discs)

DISC 1
Midnight Express vs. Mike Jackson & Rick Rood (MS 11/23/83)
Midnight Express vs. Mike Jackson & Koko Ware (MS 12/7/83)
Jim Cornette + Magnum TA & Mr. Wrestling II Recap (MS 1/4/84)
Midnight Express vs. Magnum TA & Mr. Wrestling II (MS 1/18/84)
Midnight Express vs. Mr. Wrestling II & Magnum TA (MS 2/10/84)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (MS 2/29/84)
Midnight Express vs. Mr. Wrestling II & Magnum TA (Finish Only) (MS 3/13/84)
Midnight Express vs. Bill Dundee & Porkchop Cash (MS 4/6/84)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (MS 4/18/84)
Midnight Express + Bill Watts Feud (MS 3/84 – 4/84)
Midnight Express vs. Bill Watts & Stagger Lee (MS 4/22/84)


DISC 2
Midnight Express vs. Greg Koslav & Jason Walker (MS 4/25/84)
Midnight Express vs. Tony Torres & John King (MS 4/25/84)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (MS 4/25/84)
Jim Cornette + Junkyard Dog (MS 5/2/84)
Midnight Express vs. Lanny Poffo & Mike Jackson (MS 5/9/84)
Contract Signing (MS 5/16/84)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (No DQ: Tag Titles vs. $50,000) (MS 5/23/84)
Jim Cornette Interview (MS 5/30/84)
Midnight Express & Ernie Ladd vs. Rock N Roll Express & Hacksaw Duggan (MS 6/8/84)
Midnight Express vs. Mr. Wrestling 2 & Jay Youngblood (MS 6/15/84)
Midnight Express vs. Rock n Roll Express (No DQ) (Clipped) (MS 6/16/84)
Midnight Express & Ernie Ladd vs. Rock N Roll Express & Hacksaw Duggan (MS 7/2/84)
Midnight Express vs. Pretty Young Things (MS 7/3/84)
Midnight Express + Pretty Young Things (MS 7/10/84)
Midnight Express vs. Pretty Young Things (MS 7/17/84)
Midnight Express & Jim Cornette vs. The Fantastics & Hacksaw Duggan (MS 7/20/84)


DISC 3
Midnight Express vs. Hacksaw Duggan & Junkyard Dog (MS 7/31/84)
Midnight Express & Jim Cornette vs. Hacksaw Duggan & Ricky Morton (Handicap Match) (Summer 1984)
Midnight Express vs. The Fantastics (Tulsa 8/9/84)
Midnight Express vs. The Fantastics (OKC 8/9/84)
Midnight Express vs. Pretty Young Things (MS 8/23/84)
Jim Cornette Gets A Haircut (MS 9/3/84)
Midnight Express + Fantastics Contract Signing (MS 9/5/84)
Jim Cornette Promo (MS 9/12/84)
Midnight Express vs. Brickhouse Brown & Master G (MS 9/26/84)
Midnight Express vs. The Fantastics (No DQ) (MS 9/28/84)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (Straight Jacket Match) (MS 11/4/84)
Midnight Express vs. Brickhouse Brown & Master G (MS 11/7/84)


DISC 4
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (Scaffold Match) (Houston 11/23/84)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (Scaffold Match) (MS 12/2/84)
Midnight Express Interviews (WCCW 12/3/84) (WCCW 12/17/84)
Midnight Express vs. The Fantastics (WCCW 12/25/84)
Jim Cornette Interview (WCCW 1/8/85)
Midnight Express & Jim Cornette Interview / Midnight Express vs. The Fantastics (WCCW 1/11/85)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (MS 1/21/85)
Midnight Express Interview (WCCW 1/25/85)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express vs. The Fantastics vs. Chavo & Hector Guerrero (MS 2/10/85)
Midnight Express vs. Brian Adias & Johnny Mantel (WCCW 2/22/85)


DISC 5
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (MS 2/24/85)
Midnight Express vs. The Fantastics (WCCW 3/8/85)
Jim Cornette + Sunshine (WCCW 4/29/95)
Jim Cornette Interview / Scott Casey vs. Dennis Condrey (WCCW 5/4/85)
Midnight Express vs. The Fantastics (No DQ) (WCCW 5/5/85)
Midnight Express vs. Cowboy Scott Casey & Great Kabuki (WCCW 5/13/85)
Jim Cornette Interview & Recap (WCCW 5/17/85)
Midnight Express vs. Brian Adias & Sweet Brown Sugar (2/3 Falls) (WCCW 5/20/85)
Midnight Express & Rip Oliver vs. Scott Casey, Bobby Fulton, & The Great Kabuki (WCCW 5/31/85)
Jim Cornette Interview & Recap (WCCW 5/31/85)
Bobby Eaton vs. Scott Casey (WCCW 6/14/85)
Jim Cornette Interview (WCCW 6/17/85)


DISC 6
Dennis Condrey vs. Bobby Fulton (Incomplete) (WCCW 6/17/85)
Midnight Express vs. Dale Williams & Larry Clark / Jim Cornette Interview (WCW 6/29/85)
Midnight Express vs. The Fantastics (Tulsa 6/30/85)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (OKC 6/30/85)
Jim Cornette vs. Sunshine (WCCW 7/4/85)
Midnight Express vs. Alan Martin & Mark Cooper / Jim Cornette Interview (WCW 7/6/85)
Midnight Express vs. Terry Flynn & Jason Walker (WCW 7/13/85)
Midnight Express vs. Richard Dye & Pat Gardner (WCW 7/20/85)
Confrontation: Sawyers vs. Midnight Express (WCW 7/20/85)
Jim Cornette Interview / Midnight Express vs. Sam Houston & Joe Lightfoot (WCW 7/27/85)
Jim Cornette Interview / Midnight Express vs. Mike Simani & Vernon Deaton (WCW 8/3/85)
Jim Cornette Interview (WWW 8/17/85)
Midnight Express vs. Brody Chase & Mac Jeffers (WCW 8/17/85)
Midnight Express vs. Ron Rossi & Nick Busick (WCW 9/7/85)
Jim Cornette Interviews (WCW 9/14/85) (WCW AM 9/21/85)
Jim Cornette Interview / Midnight Express vs. Jimmy Blackland & The Italian Stallion (WCW 9/21/85)
Jimmy Valiant & Rocky King Interviews / Jim Cornette + Big Mama (WWW 9/28/85)
Midnight Express vs. Pez Whatley, & Pat Tanaka (WWW 10/5/85)


DISC 7
Midnight Express vs. George South & Mark Flemming / Jimmy Valiant Promo / Jimmy Valiant & Superstar Graham Interview (WWW 10/12/85)
Jim Cornette Interviews (WCW AM 10/12/85) (WCW 10/12/85) (WWW 10/19/85) (WCW 10/19/85)
Midnight Express vs. Mack Jeffers & Brady Boone (WCW 10/19/85)
Jim Cornette Interview (WCW AM 10/26/85)
Midnight Express vs. Rocky King & Carl Styles (JIP) (WCW 10/26/85)
Midnight Express vs. Sam Houston & Pat Tanaka (WWW 11/2/85)
Jim Cornette Interviews (WCW AM 11/2/85) (WCW 11/2/85) (WCW 11/16/85)
Midnight Express vs. Fabulous Ones (JIP) (Memphis 11/18/85)
Midnight Express vs. Tarzan Goto & Akio Sato (Central States 11/21/85)
Midnight Express vs. Brad & Bart Batten (JIP) (Central States 11/21/85)
Jim Cornette Interview (WWW 11/23/85)
Midnight Express vs. Jimmy Valiant & Miss Atlanta Lively (Street Fight Match) (Starrcade 11/28/85)
Midnight Express vs. Rocky King & The Italian Stallion (WCW 11/30/85)
Midnight Express vs. Mark Cooper & Josh Stroud (WCW 12/28/85)
Midnight Express + Rock N Roll Express (WWW 1/4/86)
Jim Cornette Interview / Dennis Condrey vs. Rocky King (WCW 1/4/86)
Jim Cornette Interviews (WCW 1/11/86) (WCW 1/18/86)
Jim Cornette Interview / Bobby Eaton vs. Wee Willie Wilkens (WCW 1/25/86)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (HH 2/1/86)


DISC 8
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (HH 2/2/86)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (SOTS 2/7/86)
Midnight Express Interview (WWW 2/8/86)
Midnight Express Interview / Midnight Express vs. Don Turner & Kent Glover (WCW 2/8/86)
Midnight Express Interviews (WWW 2/15/86)
Midnight Express Interview / Midnight Express vs. Don Kermode & Ron Bass (WCW 2/15/86)
Midnight Express vs. Rocky King & Italian Stallion (WWW 2/22/86)
Jim Cornette Interview / Midnight Express vs. Larry Clarke & Mike Simani (WCW 2/22/86)
Midnight Express vs. Ron Garvin & Manny Fernandez (HH 2/22/86)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (2/23/86)
Midnight Express vs. Rocky Kernodle & Denny Brown (WWW 3/1/86)
Midnight Express vs. Paul Garner & Alan Martin (WCW 3/1/86)
Midnight Express vs. Rocky Kernodle & Italian Stallion (WWW 3/8/86)
Midnight Express vs. Brodie Chase & Mike Samani (WCW 3/8/86)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (2/3 falls) (HH 3/9/86)


DISC 9
Midnight Express vs. Phil Brown & Lee Peak (WCW 3/15/86)
Midnight Express vs. Phil Brown & Ray Traylor / Jim Cornette + Nighthawk Coltrane (WCW 3/22/86)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (HH 3/22/86)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (UWF 3/24/86)
Midnight Express vs. Paul Garner & Don Graves (WCW 3/29/86)
Midnight Express vs. Bill Tabb & Kent Glover (WCW AM 4/5/86)
Jim Cornette Interview / Midnight Express vs. Denny Brown & Mike Sumani (WCW 4/5/86)
Midnight Express vs. Rocky Kernodle & Ron Rossi (WWW 4/12/86)
Jim Cornette Interview / Midnight Express vs. Larry Clarke & Paul Garner (WCW 4/12/86)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (World Pro 4/12/86)
Midnight Express vs. Road Warriors (HH 4/18/86)
Jim Cornette Interview / Midnight Express vs. Randy Mulkey & Lee Peek (WCW AM 4/19/86)
Jim Cornette Interview /Midnight Express vs. Art Pritts & Bob Pearson (WCW 4/19/986)
Midnight Express vs. Nelson Royal & Sam Houston (Clips) (Crockett Cup 4/19/86)
Midnight Express vs. Road Warriors (Clip) (Crockett Cup 4/19/86)
Midnight Express + Dusty Rhodes & Baby Doll / Midnight Express Interview (WWW 4/26/86)


DISC 10
Jim Cornette Interview / Midnight Express vs. Paul Garner & Art Pritts (WCW AM 5/3/86)
Midnight Express vs. James Boys Saga (WCW 5/3/86)
Midnight Express vs. Dusty Rhodes & Magnum TA (HH 5/4/86)
Jim Cornette Interview / Midnight Express vs. David Dillinger & Rocky King (WCW AM 5/10/86)
Jim Cornette Interview / Midnight Express vs. Sam Houston & Nelson Royal (WWW 5/10/86)
Midnight Express Interview (WCW 5/10/86) (WCW AM 5/17/86)
Midnight Express vs. ??? / Jim Cornette Interview (WCW AM 5/17/86)
Jim Cornette Interview / Midnight Express vs. Rocky Kernodle & Vernon Deaton / James Boys Interview (WCW 5/17/86)
Jim Cornette Interviews (WCW 5/24/86)
Jim Cornette Interview / Midnight Express vs. Kernodle & South (CW AM 5/31/86)
Jim Cornette Interviews (Pro 5/31/86)
Jim Cornette & Big Bubba Interview / The James Gang vs. Thunder foot & Randy Mulkey (WWW 5/31/86)
Midnight Express vs. Pritts & Chase / Jim Cornette + Baby Doll / Jim Cornette Interview (WCW 5/31/86)
Jim Cornette & Midnight Express Interviews (CW AM 6/7/86) (WWW 6/7/86)
Jim Cornette Interview / Midnight Express vs. Deaton & Burroughs (WCW 6/7/86)
Jim Cornette Interview (CW AM 6/14/86)
Midnight Express + Dusty Rhodes & Magnum TA (WWW 6/14/86)


DISC 11
Jim Cornette Workout Secrets / Jim Cornette Interview (WWW 6/21/86)
Midnight Express vs. Kernodle & Houston / Baby Doll Interview (WCW 6/21/86)
Jim Cornette Interview (CW AM 6/28/86)
Jim Cornette Hosts Worldwide / Midnight Express vs. George South & Bill Mulkey (WWW/6/28/86)
Jim Cornette Promo / Jim Cornette Interview /
Midnight Express vs. Nelson Royal & Todd Champion /
Jim Cornette Interview (WWW 7/5/86)
Jim Cornette Interview / Jim Cornette Interview /
Midnight Express vs. Alan Martin & Dave Spencer (WCW 7/5/86)
Midnight Express & Jim Cornette vs. Magnum TA, Dusty Rhodes, & Baby Doll (Cage Match) (GAB 7/5/86)
Baby Doll Video (Looks that Kill) (CW AM 7/12/86)
Jim Cornette Announcement / Midnight Express + Warlord (WWW 7/12/86)
Jim Cornette Interview (Pro 7/19/86) (WWW 7/26/86)
Midnight Express vs. Road Warriors (WCW 8/2/86)
Midnight Express vs. Road Warriors (World Pro 8/4/86)
Jim Cornette & Midnight Express Interviews /
Midnight Express vs. Pittman & Evans (WCW 8/9/86)
Baby Doll + Jim Cornette Confrontation (WWW 8/16/86)
Jim Cornette Interview / Midnight Express Interview (WCW 8/16/86)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (Handheld 8/16/86)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (WWW 8/23/86)


DISC 12
Midnight Express vs. Mulkey & Deaton (WWW 8/30/86)
Ric Flair w/ Baby Doll Interview (Pro 8/30/86)
Jim Cornette Interviews (Pro 9/6/86) (WCW 9/6/86) (WCW 9/6/86)
Jim Cornette Interview / Midnight Express vs. Paul Gardner & Randy Barber / Jim Cornette Interview / Midnight Express Interview (WCW AM 9/13/86)
Midnight Express vs. Kansas Jayhawks (WWW 9/13/86)
Midnight Express & Big Bubba vs. Dusty Rhodes & Rock & Roll Express (Bunkhouse match) (WWW 9/20/86)
Midnight Express + Road Warriors (WCW 9/20/86)
Jim Cornette Interview / Midnight Express vs. Peek & Tabb (WCW AM 9/27/86)
Jim Cornette Interview / Midnight Express vs. Peek & Tabb (WCW 9/28/86)
Jim Cornette Interview / Midnight Express vs. Patterson & Royal (CW AM 10/4/86)
Midnight Express + Jayhawks Brawl (WWW 10/4/86)
Jim Cornette Interview (WCW 10/4/86)
Midnight Express Interview / Midnight Express vs. Clement Fields & Alan Martin (WCW 10/5/86)
Midnight Express vs. Pritts & Glover (CW AM 10/11/86)
Midnight Express vs. Garner & Pritts (WCW 10/11/86)
Jim Cornette Interviews (WCW 10/12/86) (CW AM 10/18/86)
Starrcade Update: Road Warriors Feature (WWW 10/25/86)
The Louisville Slugger / Midnight Express vs. Bill & Randy Mulkey (WWW 10/25/86)
Midnight Express & Big Bubba vs. Patterson, Zane & Simani /
Midnight Express Interview (WWW 11/2/86)
Midnight Express Interview /
Midnight Express & Big Bubba vs. Royal, Crenshaw & Patterson (WCW 11/2/86)
Midnight Express Interview (AM 11/8/86)
Jim Cornette's Louisville Slugger / Ron Garvin vs. Allen West /
Midnight Express Interview (Pro 11/8/86)
Midnight Express Interview / Midnight Express & Big Bubba vs. Zane, Deaton, Chase (WCW 11/8/86)


DISC 13
Midnight Express Interview /
Midnight Express & Big Bubba vs. Mulkey, Patterson, West (WCW 11/9/86)
Midnight Express Interview (CW AM 11/15/86)
Midnight Express & Big Bubba vs. Tim Horner, Hector Guerrero, & Ricky Lee Jones (Pro 11/15/86)
Midnight Express & Big Bubba vs. Peek, West & Deaton (WCW 11/15/86)
Starrcade Central (WCW 11/15/86)
Midnight Express Interview (WCW 11/16/86)
Midnight Express Interview / Midnight Express vs. Pritts & Deaton (WCW 11/22/86)
Midnight Express Interview / Paul Ellering & Animal Interview (WCW 11/23/86)
Big Bubba vs. Ron Garvin (Atlanta Street Fight (Starrcade 11/27/86)
Midnight Express vs. Road Warriors (Scaffold Match) (Starrcade 11/27/86)
Jim Cornette Interview / Midnight Express vs. Guerrero & Patterson /
Midnight Express Interview (WWW 11/29/86)
Midnight Express Interviews (Pro 11/29/86) (Pro 12/6/86)
Midnight Express vs. Tim Horner & Nelson Royal (WWW 12/6/86)
Midnight Express Interview (WCW 12/6/86)
Midnight Express vs. King & South / Midnight Express Interview /
Road Warriors Squash / Road Warriors Interview (WCW 12/13/86)
Midnight Express Interview (Pro 12/20/86)
Midnight Express vs. Isley & Smith / Midnight Express Interview (WCW 12/20/86)
Midnight Express & Big Bubba vs. Jones, King & South (WWW 12/27/86)
Midnight Express vs. Barry Windham & Ron Garvin /
Midnight Express Interview / Ron Garvin & Barry Windham Interview (WCW 12/27/86)


DISC 14
Jim Cornette Interviews / Midnight Express vs. South & Jackson (WCW 1/3/87)
Jim Cornette + Jim Crockett / Midnight Express & Big Bubba vs. Horner, King & Jones (Pro 1/10/87)
Midnight Express vs. Vernon Deaton & Gary Royal (WWW 1/10/87)
Jim Cornette Interview (WCW 1/10/87) (Pro 1/17/87) (WWW 1/17/87)
Midnight Express & Big Bubba vs. Stevens, Isley, & Angel / Midnight Express Interview (WCW 1/17/87)
Midnight Express Interview (Pro 1/24/87)
Midnight Express & Big Bubba vs. Brown, South & Mulkey / Midnight Express Interview (WCW 1/24/87)
Midnight Express & Big Bubba vs. Rock N Roll Express & Dick Murdoch (World Pro 1/27/87)
Midnight Express Interview / Barry Windham & Ron Garvin vs. Jobbers (Pro 1/31/87)
Midnight Express vs. Deaton & Stevens / Midnight Express Interview (WCW 1/31/87)
Midnight Express vs. Tommy Angel & Eddie Roberts (Pro 2/7/87)
Midnight Express vs. Road Warriors (Scaffold Match) (STOTSS 2/7/87)
Midnight Express Interview (WWW 2/14/87)
Midnight Express Interview / Midnight Express vs. Sullivan & Steven (WCW 2/14/87)
Midnight Express Interview / Big Bubba vs. George South (WCW 2/14/87)
Midnight Express vs. Barry Windham & Ron Garvin (Pro 2/21/87)


DISC 15
Midnight Express Interview / Jimmy Garvin Interview (WWW 2/21/87)
Midnight Express + Jim Crockett / Ron Garvin Promo / Midnight Express vs. Mulkey & Smith (WCW 2/21/87)
Midnight Express Interviews (WWW 2/28/87) (WCW 2/28/87)
Jim Cornette & JJ Dillon Interview / Ole Anderson & Big Bubba Brawl (WWW 3/7/87)
Crockett Cup 1987 Seed Announcement /
Midnight Express Interview (WCW 3/7/87)
Midnight Express Interview / Jim Cornette Interview /
Midnight Express vs. Jackson & Wescott (WCW 3/14/87)
Bobby Eaton vs. Jimmy Garvin (Superbouts 3/14/87)
Midnight Express Interview (WWW 3/21/87)
Jim Cornette Interview / Bobby Eaton vs. Alan Fox (WCW 3/21/87)
Midnight Express vs. George South & Rocky King (Pro 3/28/87)
Jim Cornette Interview / Bobby Eaton vs. Vernon Deaton (WCW 3/28/87)
Bobby Eaton & Big Bubba vs. Italian Stallion & Ricky Lee Jones / Jim Cornette Interview (WWW 4/4/87)
Midnight Express Interviews (Introducing Stan Lane) (WCW 4/4/87)
Midnight Express Interview /
Midnight Express vs. Ron & Jimmy Garvin (Crockett Cup 4/10/87)
Big Bubba vs. Ole Anderson (Cage Match) (Crockett Cup 4/10/87)
Jim Cornette Announcement / Midnight Express vs. Vernon Deaton & Gary Royal (WWW 4/11/87)
Jim Cornette Interview / Midnight Express vs. Stevens & Angel (WCW 4/11/87)
Midnight Express vs. Road Warriors (Crockett Cup 4/11/87)
Midnight Express vs. Dusty Rhodes & Nikita Koloff (Crockett Cup 4/11/87)


DISC 16
Midnight Express vs. Martin & Diamond /
Midnight Express Interviews (WCW 4/18/87)
Midnight Express Interview /
Midnight Express vs. Champion & Royal (WWW 4/25/87)
Ron Garvin Interview /
Midnight Express vs. Tabb & Clarke / Midnight Express Interview (WCW 5/2/87)
Midnight Express Interview (Pro 5/9/87)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (WCW 5/9/87)
Midnight Express vs. Barry Windham & Ron Garvin (WCW 5/16/87)
Midnight Express vs. Barry Windham & Ron Garvin (Superbouts 5/20/87)
Midnight Express vs. Stevens & Knight / Midnight Express Interview (WCW 6/6/87)
Midnight Express Interview (WCW 6/13/87)
Midnight Express vs. Nelson Royal & Mike Force (Pro 6/20/87)
Midnight Express vs. Mike Force & Larry Stephens / Midnight Express Interview (WCW 6/20/87)
Midnight Express vs. Rocky King & David Isley (Pro 6/27/87)
Midnight Express vs. Paul Damon & Terry Jones (WCW 6/27/87)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (GAB 7/4/87)
Midnight Express vs. Barry Windham & Ron Garvin (Pittsburgh 7/10/87)


DISC 17
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (Florida 7/11/87)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (JIP) (Pro 7/11/87)
Midnight Express vs. Rock & Roll Express (WWW 7/11/87)
Midnight Express vs. Mike Jackson & Terry Jones (WCW 7/11/87)
Midnight Express vs. Fabulous Freebirds (Pro 7/25/87)
Jim Cornette Interview / Midnight Express vs. Cougar Jay & Mike Jackson (WCW 7/25/87)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (JIP) (GAB 7/31/87)
Midnight Express vs. South & Jay / Midnight Express Interview (WCW 8/1/87)
Jim Cornette Interview / Midnight Express vs. David Isley & Rick Nelson /
Midnight Express Interview (WCW 8/8/87)
Jim Cornette Interview / Midnight Express vs. Rick Nelson & Dave Diamond (WCW 8/15/87)
Midnight Express vs. Barry Windham & Jimmy Garvin (Superbouts 8/19/87)
Midnight Express vs. Jimmy & Ron Garvin (Pro 8/22/87)


DISC 18
Midnight Express Interview / Midnight Express vs. Lightning Express (UWF 8/30/97)
Midnight Express vs. Barry & Kendall Windham / Jim Cornette Interview (WCW 9/5/87)
Bobby Eaton vs. Nikita Koloff (WCW 9/12/87)
Stan Lane vs. Mike Jackson (WCW 9/12/87)
Midnight Express vs. John Savage & Larry Stephens (WWW 9/19/87)
Midnight Express Interview (WWW 9/19/87)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (Superbouts 9/25/87)
Midnight Express vs. Barry Windham & Nikita Koloff (Pro 9/26/87)
Midnight Express + Sean Royal (Pro 9/26/87)
Midnight Express + Ricky Morton (Pro 10/10/87)
Midnight Express Interview (Pro 10/17/87)
Midnight Express vs. Rick Ryder & Mike Jackson / Midnight Express Interview (WCW 10/17/87)
Dennis Condrey vs. Wahoo McDaniel (AWA 10/17/87)
Starrcade Control Center (Pro 10/24/87)
Original Midnight Express vs. Jerry Lawler & Bill Dundee (AWA 10/30/87)


DISC 19
Original Midnight Express & Adrian Adonis vs. Crusher Blackwell, Wahoo McDaniel & Tommy Rich (AWA 10/30/87)
Midnight Express vs. Texas Cowboys (Pro 10/31/87)
Midnight Express vs. Mike Frank & Alan Martin / Midnight Express Interview (WCW 10/31/87)
Midnight Express vs. Bob Emory & Joe Lynn / Midnight Express Interview (WCW 11/7/87)
Midnight Express Interview (WCW 11/21/87)
Midnight Express vs. Road Warriors (Handheld 11/22/87)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (Scaffold Match) (Starrcade 11/26/87)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express / New Breed Interview (Pro 11/28/87)
Midnight Express Interview / Midnight Express vs. Thunderfoot #1 and #2 / Midnight Express Interview (WCW 11/28/87)
Midnight Express vs. Michael Hayes & Jimmy Garvin (WWW 12/19/87)
Jim Cornette Interview / Midnight Express vs. Rocky King & Cougar Jay (WCW 12/19/87)
Midnight Express Interview (Pro 12/26/87)
Jim Cornette + Dusty Rhodes (WWW 12/26/87)
Midnight Express vs. Dusty & Nikita (WCW 12/26/87)


DISC 20
Dennis Condrey and Paul E + Bill Apter (AWA 12/27/87)
Original Midnight Express vs. Midnight Rockers (AWA 12/27/87)
Midnight Express vs. Mike Jackson & Cody Starr /Midnight Express Interviews (WCW 1/2/88) (WCW 1/3/88)
Midnight Express Interview / Dusty Rhodes & Nikita Koloff Interview (WWW 1/9/88)
Midnight Express vs. McGyver & Lee Peek / Midnight Express Interview (WCW 1/9/88)
Jim Cornette & Dick Murdoch Interview / Midnight Express & Dick Murdoch Interview (WCW 1/10/88)
Midnight Express & Dick Murdoch Interview (WWW 1/16/88)
Dick Murdoch vs. Nikita Koloff / Jim Cornette & Dick Murdoch Interview (WCW 1/16/88)
Midnight Express & Dick Murdoch vs. Lightning Express & Italian Stallion (Pro 1/23/88)
Dick Murdoch & Stan Lane vs. Bellemy & Crews (WCW 1/23/88)
Jim Cornette + Jim Crockett (WWW 1/30/88)
Midnight Express vs. El ***** & Dave Laparouse / Jim Cornette & Dick Murdoch Interview (WCW 1/30/88)
Bobby Eaton vs. Dusty Rhodes (WWW 2/6/88)
Midnight Express Interview (WCW 2/6/88)
Bobby Eaton vs. Dusty Rhodes (No DQ) (WWW 2/13/88)
Midnight Express Interviews (WCW 2/13/88) (WCW 2/14/88)
Midnight Express vs. Jimmy & Ron Garvin (Pro 2/27/88)
Midnight Express Interview (WCW 2/27/88)


DISC 21
Bobby Eaton vs. Dusty Rhodes (Cage Match) (Superbouts 3/5/88)
Jim Cornette Interviews (WCW 3/5/88) (Sunday 3/6/88)
Midnight Express vs. Jobbers / Midnight Express Interview (WCWSN 3/12/88)
Fantastics Interview / Midnight Express Interview / Midnight Express + Fantastics (WCWSN 3/19/88)
Midnight Express vs. The Fantastics (Pro 3/26/88)
Jim Cornette Interview / Midnight Express vs. Kendall Windham & Big Bear Collie (WCWSN 3/26/88)
Midnight Express vs. The Fantastics (Clash 1 3/27/88)
Jim Cornette Interview / Midnight Express vs. Tony Suber & Trent Knight (WCWSN 4/2/88)
Midnight Express vs. Trent Knight & George South / Midnight Express Interview (WCW 4/16/88)
Jim Cornette Interview & Recap (WCW 4/30/88)
Midnight Express vs. Jerry Price & Dark Star / Midnight Express Interview / Midnight Express Celebration (WCW 5/7/88)
Bobby Eaton vs. Lex Luger (Main Event 5/8/88)


DISC 22
Midnight Express vs. Fantastics (WWW 5/14/88) - Tape date: 4/26/88
Jim Cornette Interview (WCW 5/14/88) (WCW 5/21/88)
Fantastics Interview (WCW 5/28/88)
Straight Jacket Demonstration (WCWSN 6/4/88)
Midnight Express Interview / Midnight Express vs. The Fantastics (Houston 6/10/88)
Midnight Express vs. Bob Emory & Ryan Wagner / Midnight Express Interview (WCW 6/11/88)
Bobby Eaton vs. Tommy Rogers (Main Event 6/12/88)
Stan Lane vs. Sting (Main Event 6/12/88)
Midnight Express vs. Nikita Koloff & Steve Williams (Main Event 6/19/88)
Midnight Express + Fantastics (WWW 6/25/88)
Jim Cornette + David Crockett (WCW 6/25/88)
Midnight Express vs. Kendall Windham & Italian Stallion (Main Event 6/26/88)
Midnight Express Interview (WCW 7/2/88)
Midnight Express vs. Lightning Express (WWW 7/9/88)


DISC 23
Midnight Express vs. Ryan Wagner & Danny Little / Midnight Express Interview (WCW 7/9/88)
Midnight Express vs. The Fantastics (GAB 7/10/88)
Midnight Express vs. Dave Spearman & JC Wilde / Midnight Express Interview (WCW 7/16/88)
Midnight Express vs. The Fantastics (Bunkhouse Match) (GAB 7/16/88)
Midnight Express Interviews (WWW 7/23/88) (WCW 7/23/88)
Midnight Express vs. Larry Stephens & Tommy Angel / Midnight Express + Four Horsemen (Pro 7/30/88)
Jim Cornette & Bobby Eaton Interview /
JJ Dillon + Jim Cornette (WCW 8/6/88)
Midnight Express Interview (WCW 8/13/88)
Midnight Express vs. Bear Colley & The Black Shadow / Midnight Express Interview (WCW 8/20/88)
Midnight Express Interview & Recap /
Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard Interview (WCW 8/27/88)
Midnight Express vs. Italian Stallion & Tim Horner (Main Event 8/28/88)
Midnight Express vs. Gary Royal & Mike Jackson / Midnight Express Interview (WCW 9/3/88)
MX + Cornette Straight Talk (WWW 9/10/88)
Midnight Express vs. Tully Blanchard & Arn Anderson (Handheld 9/10/88)
Midnight Express vs. Cruel Connection #1 & Curtis Thompson / Midnight Express Interview (WCW 9/24/88)


DISC 24
Jim Cornette Interview / Midnight Express vs. Gary Royal & Jerry Price (WCW 10/1/88)
Midnight Express vs. Agent Steele & Mike Jackson / Midnight Express Interview (WCW 10/8/88)
Jim Cornette vs. JJ Dillon (Cage Match) (10/15/88)
Midnight Express vs. Sting & Dr. Death (Main Event 10/23/88)
Midnight Express vs. Mike Justice & David Isley / Midnight Express Interview (WCW 10/29/88)
Stan Lane vs. Menace #2 (WCWSN 11/5/88)
Midnight Express vs. Road Warrior Animal & Paul Ellering (Main Event 11/6/88)
Original Midnight Express vs. Jerry Price & Rick Allen / Original Midnight Express Interview / Midnight Express Interview (WCW 11/12/88)
Midnight Express vs. Road Warriors (WWW 11/19/88)
Original Midnight Express Straight Talk (WWW 11/19/88)
Midnight Express Interview / Original Midnight Express Interview (WCW 11/19/88)
Original Midnight Express Interview (WCW 11/26/88)
Midnight Express vs. Rip Morgan & Max Miles (WCW 11/26/88)
Original Midnight Express Interview (WCW 12/3/88)
Midnight Express vs. Bob Emory & El ***** / Midnight Express Interview (WCW 12/3/88)
Midnight Express vs. Ric Flair & Barry Windham (Clash 12/7/88)


DISC 25
Louisville Slugger / Midnight Express Interview (WCWSN 12/10/88)
Midnight Express vs. Mike Simani & Bob Emory (WCW 12/17/88)
Original Midnight Express Interview / Jim Cornette Interview (WCW 12/24/88)
Midnight Express vs. Mike Jackson & Gary Royal (WCW 12/24/88)
Midnight Express vs. Original Midnight Express (Starrcade 12/26/88)
Original Midnight Express vs. The Fantastics (WWW 12/31/88)
Original Midnight Express Interview (WCW 12/31/88)
Midnight Express v Original Midnight Express (Main Event 1/22/89)
Midnight Express vs. Rick Allen & Keith Steinborn (WCW 1/28/89)
Midnight Express Interview (WCW 2/4/89)
Midnight Express Interview / Original Midnight Express Interview / Midnight Express v Cruel Connection I & II (WCW 2/11/89)
Midnight Express vs. The Russian Assassins (Clash 2/15/89)


DISC 26
Midnight Express vs. Dave Heath & Bill Holiday /
Midnight Express Interview (WCW 2/18/89)
Midnight Express & Cornette vs. Rose, Victory, & Paul E. (loser leaves town match) (Chi Town 2/20/89)
Midnight Express vs. Julio Barrera & Joe Cazana /
Wrestling Hotline Commercial / Midnight Express Interview (WCW 3/4/89)
Midnight Express vs. The Raider & Bob Cook / Midnight Express Interview (WCW 3/11/89)
The Danger Zone: Randy Rose (WCW 3/25/89)
Midnight Express Interview (WCW 3/25/89)
Midnight Express v Samoan Swat Team (Main Event 3/26/89)
Midnight Express vs. Samoan Swat Team (Clash 4/2/89)
Jim Cornette Promos (WCW 4/15/89) (WCW 5/27/89)
Midnight Express vs. Butch Reed & The Raider (WCW 6/3/89)
Paul E. Dangerously Promo / Jim Cornette Promo (WCW 6/10/89)
Midnight Express vs. Samoan Swat Team /
Jim Cornette Interview (Clash 6/14/89)
Midnight Express vs. Fabulous Freebirds (Clash 6/14/89)
Midnight Express & Dr. Death Interview (WCW 6/17/89)
Midnight Express & Dr. Death vs. Keith Steinborn, Fred Avery & Jeff James / Midnight Express + Fabulous Freebirds (WCW 6/24/89)


DISC 27
Midnight Express vs. Fabulous Freebirds (WCW 6/24/89)
Midnight Express vs. New Zealand Militia (WCWSN 7/8/89)
Jim Cornette Interview (WCW 7/15/89)
Jim Cornette vs. Paul E Dangerously (Tuxedo Match) (GAB 7/23/89)
War Games (GAB 7/23/89)
Midnight Express vs. Fred Avery & The Enforcer / Midnight Express Interview (WCW 8/12/89)
Midnight Express vs. Ron Simmons & Trent Knight (Pro 8/19/89)
Midnight Express vs. Ron Simmons & Tony Suber (WWW 8/26/99)
Midnight Express Interview / Jim Cornette + Jim Ross (WCW 8/26/89)
Midnight Express vs. The State Patrol (Pro 9/16/89)
Midnight Express vs. New Zealand Militia (WWW 9/16/89)
Jim Cornette & Dynamic Dudes Interview / Midnight Express Interview / Midnight Express vs. Robbie Idol & Bill Ford (WCW 9/16/89)
Stan Lane vs. Michael Hayes (Pro 9/23/89)
Midnight Express vs. Joe Cruze & Gene Ligon / The Freebirds attack The Midnight Express (Pro 10/7/89)
Midnight Express Interview / Jim Cornette & Dynamic Dudes Interview (WCW 10/7/89)
Midnight Express & The Dynamic Dudes vs. Tony Suber, Bill Ford, Gene Ligon & Agent Steele (Pro 10/14/89)
Jim Cornette + Woman / Midnight Express Interview (WCW 10/21/89)
Midnight Express vs. The Cuban Assassin & Bill Ford (Pro 10/28/89)
Midnight Express + Dynamic Dudes (WCW 10/28/89)


DISC 28
Midnight Express & Dr. Death vs. Samoan Swat Team & Samoan Savage (Havoc 10/28/89)
Jim Cornette + Midnight Express (WCW 11/4/89)
Midnight Express vs. Dynamic Dudes (Clash 11/15/89)
Dynamic Dudes Promo (WCW 11/18/89) / Midnight Express Promo (Main Event 11/19/89)
Midnight Express vs. Jason Lee & Scott Walker / Midnight Express Interview (WCW 11/25/89)
Midnight Express Interview / Midnight Express vs. Dynamic Dudes (WCW 12/2/89)
Midnight Express + Dynamic Dudes (WCW 12/9/89)
Midnight Express vs. Bobby & Jackie Fulton / Dynamic Dudes Interview / Midnight Express Interview (WCW 12/23/89)
Stan Lane vs. Shane Douglas (WCW 12/30/89)
Midnight Express & Fabulous Freebirds vs. Rock N Roll Express & Dynamic Dudes (WCWSN 1/27/90)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (WWW 2/10/90)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (Wrestlewar 2/25/90)


DISC 29
Midnight Express vs. Brian Pillman & Z-Man (WCWSN 3/10/90)
Midnight Express vs. Bob Cook & Zan Panzer (3/24/90)
Stan Lane vs. Z-Man (WCW 4/14/90)
Midnight Express v. Brian Pillman & Z-Man (Power Hour 4/20/90)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (Main Event 4/22/90)
Midnight Express & Fabulous Freebirds vs. Rock N Roll Express, Brian Pillman & Z-Man (Main Event 4/29/90)
Midnight Express vs. Brian Pillman & Z-Man (Cap Combat 5/19/90)
Midnight Express vs. Pat Rose & Lee Scott (WCW 6/2/90)
Midnight Express vs. Brian Pillman & Z-Man (Power Hour 6/9/90)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (Clash 11 6/13/90)


DISC 30
Midnight Express vs. Southern Boys (GAB 7/7/90)
Midnight Express vs. Tommy Rich & Tim Horner (Power Hour 7/22/90)
Midnight Express vs. Brian Pillman & Z-Man (WCW 8/18/90)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (Main Event 8/25/90)
Midnight Express vs. Lightning Express (Power Hour 8/31/90)
Bobby Eaton Interview (Main Event 9/2/90)
Bobby Eaton vs. Scott Steiner (Power Hour 9/21/90)
Midnight Express vs. Southern Boys (WCW 9/22/90)
Bobby Eaton vs. Ricky Morton (WCW 9/29/90)
Bobby Eaton vs. Sid Vicious (Main Event 9/30/90)
Midnight Express vs. Rick & Scott Steiner (WCW 10/13/90)
Midnight Express vs. Tommy Angel & Brett Holiday (WCW 10/20/90)


DISC 31
Southern Boys Tag Team Award (WCW 10/27/90)
Midnight Express vs. Tommy Rich & Ricky Morton (Havoc 10/27/90)
Midnight Express vs. Southern Boys (Main Event 11/4/90)
Stan Lane vs. Steve Armstrong (Power Hour 11/10/90)
Bobby Eaton vs. Tracy Smothers (Main Event 11/11/90)
Midnight Express Reunion (ROH 10/2/04)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (CCW 11/6/04)
Midnight Express vs. Southern Comfort (IWC 12/11/04)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (Cage Match) (CCW 1/8/05)
Midnight Express vs. Rock N Roll Express (Scaffold Match) (CCW 4/9/05)


DISC 32
Dennis Condrey & Phil Hickerson vs. Jerry Lawler & Norvell Austin (10/17/77)
Dennis Condrey & Randy Rose Interview (SECW 1/10/81)
Dennis Condrey & Randy Rose vs. The Armstrongs (Arena Clips) (SECW 1/23/81)
Dennis Condrey + Paul Orndorff Arm Wrestling Contest (SECW 1/24/81) (Fair VQ)
Dennis Condrey, Randy Rose, & Mr. Saito Personality Profile (SECW 2/7/81) (Fair VQ)
Dennis Condrey & Randy Rose vs. Norvell Austin & Paul Orndorff (SECW 2/21/81) (Fair VQ)
Dennis Condrey & Randy Rose vs. Eddie Gilbert & Ricky Morton (CWA 12/19/81)
Battle Royal Highlights (CWA 12/28/81)
Dennis Condrey, Randy Rose & Norvell Austin Interview (CWA 1/19/82)
Dennis Condrey & Norvell Austin vs. Dutch Mantel & Joe Stark (CWA 4/17/82)
Dennis Condrey & Norvell Austin vs. Ron Bass & Carl Fergie (CWA 6/26/82)
Jim Cornette + Jerry Lawler & Bill Dundee (8/28/82) (9/4/82) (9/11/82)
Jim Cornette Interview (4/16/83)
Jim Cornette & Jimmy Hart vs. Jerry Lawler (MSC 4/18/83)
Dennis Condrey & Norvell Austin vs. Fabulous Ones (MSC 11/14/83)
Midnight Express & Buddy Landel Interviews (CWA 9/10/83) (CWA 10/8/83)
Dennis Condrey & Norvell Austin vs. Rock N Roll Express (MSC 10/8/83)
Dennis Condrey, Norvell Austin & Buddy Landell vs. Rock N Roll Express & Ricky Gibson (CWA 10/31/83)


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Here's the culprit:
Midnight Express vs. Barry Windham & Ron Garvin (WCW 5/16/87)

(And if you could throw in the Halloween Havoc '90 match against Morton & Rich as well I'd be pretty happy.  )


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Got it from the Midnight Express set I have. Really need to get on both that match and the set at some point. Matches are busy uploading, I've added in the links, for the time being, but they should probably be done within the next two hours. The date is 16/05/1987.


EDIT: *Zep*, can you do the Halloween Havoc match? My internet would take too long, and I'm off to bed. *Bruce L*, if you don't mind parts, Halloween Havoc 1990 is on both Dailymotion and Youtube.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bruce L said:


> Here's the culprit:
> Midnight Express vs. Barry Windham & Ron Garvin (WCW 5/16/87)
> 
> (And if you could throw in the Halloween Havoc '90 match against Morton & Rich as well I'd be pretty happy.  )


Edit: Nevermind, just realised Rah is on them.  (Y)


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Thanks a lot, guys. Looking forward to these.

Brock, if you could still up the Halloween Havoc match, that'd be awesome. (I have a feeling yours will be better quality than the whole-show-in-parts versions I'm finding on DM now.)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah sure. I'll sort it the weekend when im near my discs.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

22. 87-01-13 Barry Windham Vs Ric Flair (NWA)


I did not know this existed. Where would I find this?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> 22. 87-01-13 Barry Windham Vs Ric Flair (NWA)
> 
> 
> I did not know this existed. Where would I find this?


It's a bonus match on the first disc of The Ultimate Flair Collection. Iirc, it's joined in progress(maybe) and ends in a no-contest, which leads to their match the next week. But I may be wrong. I remember watching it several years back though.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Wild teaser style match for their followup.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The blasted Midnight Express set. Oh, how I forgot.

---------






Finally did something right w/my life & watched this for the first time, well, probably since 2004. Loved it then _(finish was always very vivid, that has to mean something)_ & love it 50x more now. It's the kind of excellence that shines brightly for both Eddie & Show. They're just magnificent. Back when WWE didn't really have too much of a formula on their shows - lower card guys got dick, yeah, but up and down you felt as if you could get something different from each match - it shows massively here. This is even completely different from their No Mercy '03 match that is constantly played up, along w/their entire late '03 program, throughout the duration. I've seen plenty of Eddie and I know how amazing he is, but when I can watch this and still get blown away by his work it's just outstanding how he's able to evoke those kind of emotions out of me. He can play numerous different types of himself all in one match. During Show's domination he's coming off like the most dire, down and out underdog around. Once he gets his advantage, his momentum is rolling, you can read the supreme amount of confidence on his face & in his work. It's a split second change going from low to high, high to low, and right back around again depending on the ebb & flow. WWE & numerous wrestlers who worked/knew him always sing his praises to high heaven for stuff like this and when you do take notice of the "little things" as they put it, it only drives home everything about the work - a summation of what makes wrestling matches amazing tbhayley - to a far greater degree than "they did great moves" or something else that only takes it at face value. I don't want to make 50% of this ramble have to make mention on the disappointing state of affairs of the company today, but a nod to the commentary goes a long w/this too. The interest to actually sell the story 360 degrees around w/tons of emphasis sure was amazing. Sometimes I forget how well Cole & Tazz did that w/matches that were meant to be important or w/ones you knew they were legitimately wanting to call. Tazz makes a great point about Show using a different approach on Eddie, by not only swarming him w/his size, but targeting a body part too. And notes it as "very smart". Which only aids to assist Show's game plan & allow Eddie's status of, both, being WWE champion and a hell of a wrestler stick out as something even a giant can't take lightly. In a nutshell, it was tremendous. Everything. If Eddie vs JBL Judgment Day didn't happen this year, I think this would have been my favorite overall match. It's at least #2 for Eddie's catalog. Which, spooling over, was p. good pardon an unfortunate string of PPV outings that were often lacking. His TV run would be a fun way to kill some hours.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bruce L said:


> Here's the culprit:
> Midnight Express vs. Barry Windham & Ron Garvin (WCW 5/16/87)
> 
> (And if you could throw in the Halloween Havoc '90 match against Morton & Rich as well I'd be pretty happy.  )


*Midnight Express vs Tommy Rich & Ricky Morton (WCW Halloween Havoc 1990)*

x2hn6c3


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

C2D, did you ever watch the Austin/Savio Vega Caribbean Strap match from IYH:L Beware of Dog when you watched some '96 stuff?


----------



## NJ88 (Jan 27, 2009)

Didn't realise before just watching it now...Wrestlemania 2000 has no singles matches (aside from a pointless cat fight which I won't comment on), Teddy Long would be proud. By the end of the show though, I'd started to miss singles matches.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

currently in a henry mood watching everything in sight

just watched henry's retirement speech heel turn again :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Kenny said:


> currently in a henry mood watching everything in sight
> 
> just watched henry's retirement speech heel turn again :mark:


If they gave out awards for "Promo of the Year", that would take the cake for me for 2013. No question, even over every Punk or Heyman promo. Mark simply knocked it out of the park that night. It was especially good because he really wasn't SUPER credible at that point like he had been in 2011-2012. But with one promo, one in ring confrontation, there he was as a believable threat to Cena's title. As excellent as the Cena/BRYAN SS 2013 match was, I would love to see a 20+ minute BRYAN/HENRY main event. That could have been really, really special.


----------



## thevaliumkid (Jan 9, 2012)

Am I in the right thread to discuss the shield DVD?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yup. ^^


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

LMAO, maybe it's just me & the mood I'm in, but I'm 20 minutes into Batista's first documentary, and I'm finding the whole thing unintentionally hilarious.

First of all, his mother looks nothing like I had imagined. This isn't funny, just weird. I thought that she was the Hispanic woman in the first picture they showed. :lol

LMAO at Batista looking like a grown ass man at 14.

I'm now starting to believe those rumors about him lying about his age, though. I notice that they NEVER give years in this documentary, as far as his early life. Also, there's a pic of him wearing an ROTC '82 shirt, and there's no way in hell that he was 13 at the time. I know I just mentioned him looking older, but not THAT older.

lol at his mom talking about him having so much hair when he was born. That must suck for a dude to go balding, when he was born with so much hair. Although, again, it could be the lying about his age thing.

The cheating segment was the best part, though. I respect him a lot for just outright stating that he was cheating and got caught. So many people bullshit like "we weren't really together at the time." I respect his honesty.

But LOL at them trying to somehow turn it into some great love story, but doing a TERRIBLE job of it. I mean the whole time I'm thinking "um, ok, so he moves to Minnesota to make it up to the girl he was cheating on....and the whole time is calling Angie and telling her he loves her?"

The whole thing just was laughable, and makes Angie look like a dunce. He proposes to her a couple of days after coming back from GOING to live with his ex-gf? And she's all happy and says yes?!

And lol at him saying "Angie's not the type to be going after another woman's boyfriend." And yet.....

Angie is the one who Batista ended up cheating on while she had cancer, right? If so, I remember her getting a shit ton of sympathy and Batista getting a lot of hate on the net. After watching this, it shouldn't have been any surprise that Batista ended up doing what he did, and also was probably a bit of karma for Angie (the cheating part).

The whole thing just made me LOL because the idea was to make this seem like a love story, but it failed miserably. Again, though, it's because Batista is TOO honest, which I respect. But it just was ridiculous.

Angie looked GREAT in her driver's license picture. They should have showed that pic, when they showed Batista talking about being taken with her beauty.

Odd that Batista considers himself white. That's delusional, imo, but whatevs.

I liked his comments about getting stuck in a rut, due to making money as a bouncer. That's true for SO many people. I like that he recognized that, and let his ambition drive him, even though it was later in life. So many people just resign themselves to not shooting high.


The documentary is in the "Beyond the Ring" section on the network, btw. It's under 2009. For those taking advantage of the Free Trial, I'd recommend watching some of the documentaries. They're usually interesting.


----------



## thevaliumkid (Jan 9, 2012)

Thanks pal. 
Surprised to not see more chatter over this. Maybe its a few pages back so sorry if so.
Anyway. Thought the shield DVD was one of the best recent efforts wwe has done, I'm a big collector of their DVDs, and I've got even more of the old blue top video tapes, and I really enjoyed the shields documentary, was good getting Ambrose thoughts on his time at FCW and Seth's time in ROH. 
Altogether a good watch. Just making my way through the extras now


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, it's a definite purchase for me when it hits the UK next month. For once WWE got the listing pretty much spot on imo, barring a couple of omissions maybe, but all in all seems a great release.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

THERE'S A SHIELD DVDS? WAT.

and here I thought my Friday night would be shitty with shitty television and shitty food. Now I'll just have to put up with shitty food. :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Flux said:


> THERE'S A SHIELD DVDS? WAT.
> 
> and here I thought my Friday night would be shitty with shitty television and shitty food. Now I'll just have to put up with shitty food. :mark:


http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/full-content-wwe-destruction-of-the-shield-dvd/78618/


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

CJack, did you see the first Batista's documentary? His love for Eddie is STRONG, especially in the extras section. In the extras, he talks about how Eddie repaired Batista's relationship with Batista's daughter, and also tells a great story about how seriously Eddie took a house show match. Great love for the business.

There was also a cute story in the extras about how Batista spent his last $500 on a suit that he was told he needed when they called him up to the WWE. His wife said she wanted to cry when she saw that they cut off the sleeves to his suit. That was, like, his one good suit, lol.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Owens/Neville from this weeks nxt was pretty swell.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Brock said:


> *Midnight Express vs Tommy Rich & Ricky Morton (WCW Halloween Havoc 1990)*
> 
> x2hn6c3


... and thanks again!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

There's another Steen vs PAC match? Oh hell yeah. And here I thought I was only gonna tune in for the Death Machine. 

Dear christ, why haven't I watched NXT yet.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh, and in one of dem April episodes of NXT, we're gonna get


Spoiler: NXT GORE



ZAYN VS RHYNO


Why oh why is NXT so YES.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

ATF said:


> Oh, and in one of dem April episodes of NXT, we're gonna get
> 
> 
> Spoiler: NXT GORE
> ...





Spoiler: O. M. Fucking. G.



Mother of god... If Rhyno is motivated, and Zayn is Zayn...



:mark::woo :faint:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Backlash 2000:*

Edge & Christian vs Road Dogg & X-Pac - ★★★
Dean Malenko vs Scotty Too Hotty - ★★★¾
Big Boss Man & Bull Buchanan vs APA - ★★½
Six Man Hardcore Match - ★★
The Showster vs Kurt Angle ★★½ lmao :lmao :lmao)
Test & Albert vs Dudleyz - ★★¼
Eddie Guerrero vs Essa Rios - ★★¾
Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho - ★★★¾
The Rock vs Triple H - ★★★★¼

Awesome ending with the greatest pop of all time! :mark: Have watched every Backlash in its entirety except 2001, 2002, 2008 and 2009. Based on what I've seen from those, there has never been a bad Backlash PPV.

Also why do I find it funny that Rock's music plays in the arena after he finishes a backstage promo? :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Backlash 2006 might be the only one where I actually like 99% of the show now that I think about it. Rest all feel the same w/having some matches I love/like, then piles of nothing up and down. This feels like a neat way to start a list off preferred matches from various PPV non-big five franchises.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

The Shield DVD is pretty sweet, the match listing is awesome. My only problem with it is the documentary part, because it's the same one that aired last August on the Network before Summerslam.

So if you want this for the doc, then you will be pretty dissapointed. If you are buying this for the matches, then you are in for a HELLUVA RIDE!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> Well bugger me sideways, that ECW set actually has ONE MATCH on it I want to see! Which is one more than both the other sets combined! Had no idea Cactus had a match with Bigelow. I shall check it out 2morrow or something.


*Cactus Jack vs. Bam Bam Bigelow (ECW Just Another Night 02.23.96)*

x2hq4sh


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lol, completely forgot about even looking for that match, so thanks . Downloading it now, will probably watch in about 6 years time :side: .

So, that Fastlane PPV is on Sunday huh? Excitement and stuffs. 

What the fuck is the card beyond Bryan/Reigns? :lmao


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

So which match is going to have the fuckiest finish? Rusev vs. Cena or Bryan vs. Reigns? Probably both, right?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Who the fucks cares about anything else in the card other than Bryan/Reigns? Cena/Rusev is fuckery bound so idc. Fuck, I don't even care about AMBROSE/BARRETT, and they're two of my three favorites in the main roster alongside Bryan. Main Event will be the only thing I'll watch, and I don't have the highest hopes for it being a MOTYC or anything at all.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

I'm genuinely excited for Bryan/Reigns. It baffles me how the best build up for a match they've done in ages is a face/face situation. It shows how shitty they book all their heels that aren't Rollins. But Bryan/Reigns has potential to be great, if Bryan is tapping in to his American Dragon persona and Reigns is playing a no nonsense badass like they've been doing over the last month, then how can it not be good? Maybe I'm setting myself up for disappointment, idk. I'm expecting these guys to be stiff with each other because we've seen them do it in the brawl on RAW, this won't happen but if Bryan walks up and slaps Reigns before the bell I might cry with joy.

Cena/Rusev has potential and I wouldn't be surprised if it has a fucky finish leading to Cena wanting a rematch at Mania, knowing WWE the Mania match will probably be some shitty gimmick thing and every time Cena has been in one of those over the last few years it's been awful.

Whats Rollins doing? Please tell me he isn't wrestling Ziggler again.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Bubz said:


> I'm genuinely excited for Bryan/Reigns. It baffles me how the best build up for a match they've done in ages is a face/face situation. It shows how shitty they book all their heels that aren't Rollins. But Bryan/Reigns has potential to be great, if Bryan is tapping in to his American Dragon persona and Reigns is playing a no nonsense badass like they've been doing over the last month, then how can it not be good? Maybe I'm setting myself up for disappointment, idk. I'm expecting these guys to be stiff with each other because we've seen them do it in the brawl on RAW, this won't happen but if Bryan walks up and slaps Reigns before the bell I might cry with joy.
> 
> Cena/Rusev has potential and I wouldn't be surprised if it has a fucky finish leading to Cena wanting a rematch at Mania, knowing WWE the Mania match will probably be some shitty gimmick thing and every time Cena has been in one of those over the last few years it's been awful.
> 
> *Whats Rollins doing? Please tell me he isn't wrestling Ziggler again.*


w/ Kane and Big Show vs. Ziggler, Rowan and Ryback

Imagine being told this time last year that this match is happening. Such a clusterfuck of random people. Really don't like this Ziggler, Rowan and Ryback team. Just screams "they're doing nothing, fuck it, let's throw them together despite them having nothing in common."


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Decided to watch Cesaro/Swagger from Main Event. It ended. That's all I remember.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Wow, a lot of negativity coming into Fast Lane this weekend, huh? I for one think it's been a very well built card. Everything on it has premise and backstory. I'm looking forward to Cena/Rusev, Bryan/Reigns, the Tag Title match, and the 6-man. Cena/Rusev had one of the dumbest setups ever, but I'm still looking forward to the match. Bryan/Reigns has been built extremely well, the Tag Title and IC Title matches both have promise, and while the 6-man involves a team of 3 random dudes, they're no longer really 3 random dudes because being fired and coming back to fight the authority IS what they're doing now. 

Even though we may get some fuckery finishes, I'm looking forward to it way more than most PPVs they had in the latter half of last year.

Totally forgot about Goldust vs. Stardust too! I even like the sound of that on paper, even though it'll likely be a squash.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well that Bam Bam/Cactus Jack match was disappointing . Only lasted like 5 minutes. However, on the whole it was a lot of fun. Cactus being introduced as weighing "a whopping 368lbs" as a dig at him for leaving to go to WWF is :lmao. Stevie and Meanie coming out to let Cactus do the Fabulous Ones strut as a going away present is :mark:. Match itself is meh, because they don't get time to do anything really. Afterwards we get a brawl with Bigelow taking everyone out until TAZ comes out and chokes Bigelow the fuck out, while Cactus Double Arm DDT's anyone stupid enough to try and help.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Willing to take a match request if i have it and it isn't online.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rick Rude, Bobby Eaton & Arn Anderson vs Sting, Rick & Scott Steiner (10/3/92)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Rick Rude, Bobby Eaton & Arn Anderson vs Sting, Rick & Scott Steiner (10/3/92)


*Rick Rude, Bobby Eaton & Arn Anderson vs. Sting & The Steiner Brothers (WCW Worldwide 10.03.1992)*

x2hrv77


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

For the love of Meng, how on earth did you find that? I thought that match was just a myth.

Slightly off-topic, but I just finished watching ROH DBD II, and the Second City Saints vs. Maff/Whitmer match leaves me lost for words. Definition of a war.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Flux said:


> w/ Kane and Big Show vs. Ziggler, Rowan and Ryback
> 
> Imagine being told this time last year that this match is happening. Such a clusterfuck of random people. Really don't like this Ziggler, Rowan and Ryback team. Just screams "they're doing nothing, fuck it, let's throw them together despite them having nothing in common."


I oddly like it, b/c it feels like WWE is living up to something they created, rather than letting it die the moment they got fired/re-hired. A rag tag unit of babyfaces that isn't a faction, but will have each other's back by proxy of the heel power establishment being cunts is kind of fun.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

rowan will never get anywhere, if booked well ryback/ziggler definitely can


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I've given up on Ziggler. It's crazy that I don't even really look forward to his matches anymore, because they're all the same. He gets beat down, flails around, then hits some offense that is all based on jumping before doing it. Jumping stalled DDT (that move is so god damn overrused and has lost its luster), Zig Zag attempt, superkick, another jumping thingy, then he loses. His momentum was sky high towards the end of last year, then it went to shit. He's pretty much become a midcard jobber along with Harper. I honestly think I prefer Ryback to him now, and that's just crazy talk for me to say.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rowan is too bad b/c they won't do anything w/him & they should at least try. Ryback still has something. He's gonna stall a bit b/c of WM and the whole Reigns vs Danielson situation, but following this, they could finally pull the trigger w/him again. It just doesn't help that the would be upper midcard championship(s) are worthless in their use, or else he could really use a reign or feud up top w/one (preferably IC b/c history, etc) to keep him busy in-between moving forward. They almost are doing that w/Ambrose atm, but the sad part is you couldn't tell. _(IE, it is worthless)_

But the dark reality of most things today is how it feels so much like WCW w/this roster. Each week things happen, but as the months & eventually year goes by, everyone will be stuck in the same spot.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That's what this company does to you. Sad to see how far Ambrose has fallen, and you can't blame him (or Ryback, Ziggler, or Rowan for that matter) for that drop off at all. Shame to know that Ryback won't get the rub from dethroning Rusev.

Adam Rose and Fandango somehow had a good match this week.


EDIT: Oh for the love of Haku. Remember how in that 2004 Punk/Bryan match, the crowd started doing a YES!/NO! chant in the middle of the match? Well a YES! chant broke out at the end of this promo Bryan had at GBH III when he teased a match with Liger. :bryan2


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

fuck you vince, cant connect huh? the fans liked him before, LOVED him after this


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brock said:


> *Rick Rude, Bobby Eaton & Arn Anderson vs. Sting & The Steiner Brothers (WCW Worldwide 10.03.1992)*
> 
> x2hrv77


Rude was so awesome in this during the babyface shine portion. Awesome match, even w/the super short hot tag by Sting. Tags during the late 80's - early 90's just clicked on every element.


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

This picture just broke my heart tbh.

What happened?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Talking about tag teams, bit of a random upload that i found out: 

*Road Warriors vs Powers Of Pain (NWA 02.06.1988) (Bench Press Challenge)*

_'$50,000 Bench Press Challenge'_

x2hqflx


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Been a while since I updated my sig with BLOG~! updates lol . The last 2 2005 PPV Rambles have been posted, and the End of Year Thoughts too, and today is ECW One Night Stand 2006 where I shit on all things ECW unless it involves Terry Funk and Mick Foley. And Lita's boobs .

Guess I should like, finish up 2007 soon. One day. One day...


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

obby said:


> This picture just broke my heart tbh.
> 
> What happened?


I think it's just a comparison. Ya know, loose cannon and lunatic fringe?


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

So I've been watching Wrestlemanias in order to get me excited for going to California next month for the big event. Finishing Wrestlemania 25 at the moment...

Triple H and Randy Orton have awful chemistry. Just really, really bad. As the show-closing main event, its a terrible match. It never gets going, never really goes anywhere, and the story they tell is rubbish. Considering the build to the match was flat out awesome, this was a disappointing payoff. And I blame Triple H.

He's a woeful babyface. He doesn't convince as a good guy at all. I hate his facial expressions when he's seething mad, I hate how halfway through the match he catches Orton's leg when he goes for the punt and just starts completely no-selling punches like Hogan. Just a bad performance all round, I didn't feel sympathy for the character and I didn't buy into his overwhelming desire for revenge. 

The "climax" was utterly crap, too. Punt to the head, sledgehammer shot, then Triple H screaming and going crazy with punches but getting nothing but a dead crowd in response, and then a Pedigree and its over. Load of crap and did nothing but make Orton look like a pussy and tried to hard to make Triple H look good. This belonged halfway through the show and HBK/Taker should've main evented.

So that's two events where Triple H has been in the main event of Wrestlemania in the title match and totally fucked up the show for me.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Rude was so awesome in this during the babyface shine portion. Awesome match, even w/the super short hot tag by Sting. Tags during the late 80's - early 90's just clicked on every element.


I don't think any combination of the Dangerous Alliance ever even had so much as a mediocre tag match. Put any two or more of them together, you were getting at least ***, almost regardless of their opponents. (It helped that their opponents were usually pretty damn good too.)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I remember there being a few Dangerous Alliance tags that weren't too great, but a lot of that was because of time restraints and bad opponents. Some of my favorites that I watched recently:

Dangerous Alliance vs. Dustin/Steamboat/Simmons (1/11)
Dangerous Alliance vs. Sting/Bagwell/Steamboat (1/18)
Dangerous Alliance vs. Sting/Dustin/Windham/Steamboat (2/22)
Dangerous Alliance vs Rhodes/Windham/Steamboat (4/4)
Dangerous Alliance vs. Steamboat/Rhodes/Koloff (5/23)

Apparently this exists too, but I can't find it either:

Arn/Eaton/Cactus Jack/Larry Zbyszko vs. Sting/Bagwell/Rick Steiner/Scott Steiner (2/22/92)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I remember there being a few Dangerous Alliance tags that weren't too great, but a lot of that was because of time restraints and bad opponents. Some of my favorites that I watched recently:
> 
> Dangerous Alliance vs. Dustin/Steamboat/Simmons (1/11)
> Dangerous Alliance vs. Sting/Bagwell/Steamboat (1/18)
> ...


Suppose I'll have to upload that too then.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Man, Kayfabe Commentaries continue to be the most awesome wrestling shoot video company in the world ever... they just announced WCW 1989 timeline with Cornette... and WCW 1994 timeline with Bischoff!!! June for 89 and August for 1994.

Watched the Back to the Territories show with JJ Dillon discussing Mid-Atlantic/JCP. Really great, though I didn't like the video footage being in it. Sure, it's great to be able to see clips of what they talked about, and it's rare to get it in non WWE productions due to them owning most of the footage... but here it just got annoying and I found myself having to piss about skipping the footage to get back to the talking . And I wanted to lay down in the comfort of my bed to watch it rather than sitting in my chair for 2 hours .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Apparently this exists too, but I can't find it either:
> 
> Arn/Eaton/Cactus Jack/Larry Zbyszko vs. Sting/Bagwell/Rick Steiner/Scott Steiner (2/22/92)


*Sting, Dustin Rhodes, Barry Windham & Ricky Steamboat vs. Rick Rude, Arn Anderson, Bobby Eaton & Larry Zbyszko (WCW Saturday Night 02.22.1992)*

x2huhdv


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

obby said:


> This picture just broke my heart tbh.
> 
> What happened?


they're both buried


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Arn/Eaton/Cactus Jack/Larry Zbyszko vs. Sting/Bagwell/Rick Steiner/Scott Steiner (2/22/92)





Brock said:


> *Sting, Dustin Rhodes, Barry Windham & Ricky Steamboat vs. Rick Rude, Arn Anderson, Bobby Eaton & Larry Zbyszko (WCW Saturday Night 02.22.1992)*


Um...guys...not the same match. 

I googled the match funnyfaces mentioned and this thread is the first thing that pops up. Where'd you hear about it?

edit - Oh it's on the DA comp? Fucked if I remember that match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

:lmao Just realized that, guess that teaches me not to just quickly skim through a post whilst on my phone lol. 

I took the match i posted from the '92 Yearbook, but yeah i think its on the DA comp too. Dunno about the match funnyfaces wanted then lol. Unless the date is wrong.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I mean that funnyfaces' match is on the DA comp.  It's straight after the other tag on the listing (which is a match burned into my memory for being amazing).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Apparently this exists too, but I can't find it either:
> 
> Arn/Eaton/Cactus Jack/Larry Zbyszko vs. Sting/Bagwell/Rick Steiner/Scott Steiner (2/22/92)


I'll get the correct one uploaded tomorrow. 



Yeah1993 said:


> I mean that funnyfaces' match is on the DA comp.  It's straight after the other tag on the listing (which is a match burned into my memory for being amazing).


Thanks for the clarification mate.


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

Ruiner87 said:


> they're both buried


Indeed.

I still remember when Ambrose was the leader of the shield. Good times.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That awkward moment when Barry Windham becomes Marcus Bagwell & Cactus Jack becomes Rick Rude.

Happens to the best of us.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Is it just me, or was that 6 man tag between Rowan/Ziggler/Ryback vs ROLLINS/Show/Kane pretty damn sweet for what it was? I definitely dug it. Sad to say though, ZIGGLER annoyed me by going full retard with the spastic selling. I love Zigs but he needs to chill on that. It makes Shawn Michaels overly dramatic selling look subdued by comparison. Liked Randy returning and tearing it down with a few RKO's. Looks like we are indeed getting Rollins/Orton at WM. Would have preferred Rollins/Ziggler but to be honest Randy is definitely the bigger name and if he's motivated, granted a BIG if, they could deliver a match every bit as good as one with Ziggler. Probably even better.

Fuck it, ***1/4 for the 6 man, probably overrating it but I just thoroughly enjoyed it.

RHODES BROS UP NEXT :mark: :mark:

Any day with Dustin Rhodes wrestling is a good day imo.

Edit: wtf is up with this dead ass crowd? Don't they realize it's DUSTIN FUCKING RHODES wrestling a singles match? Cherish this, it won't be around that much longer.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Shades of 90s NJPW with that tombstone reverse spot in the early to mid stages of a match


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

**3/4 for the 6 man, was solid enough but could have been a lot better. 

A year too late for the Rhodes Bro's, last year I'd be really looking forward to it but they've missed the boat IMO.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

I agree about the 6 man tag match. Around *** for me. Ryback looked like a beast.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Brock said:


> I'll get the correct one uploaded tomorrow.


No need to do so. Here it is:






Thanks for all your effort though zep. Is it ok if I occasionally request something from WCW 1992 if I can't find it anywhere? This WCW 1992 is as good as advertised, but it's a pain trying to treat the program as a television show when everything is so disjointed.

I really liked that opening 6-man tag match as well. All three members of the babyface team played their roles really well. Rowan in particular was my favorite performer in that match. A man of his size was able to pull off a very good FIP segment even with two of the most boring wrestlers today working over him. Impressed by how he sold that leg. Ryback and Ziggler both had really good hot tags. That Fameasser on Rollins was sick. Ending was pretty stupid, but at least we got some sort of purpose behind that match.

They missed out on a potentially great spot in this Goldust/Stardust match. Ref referred to Cody as Stardust. He should have called him Cody so that Cody could go bonkers.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

This fast lane crowd sucks ass. Why would you spent money and then just sit on your hands.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

*1/2

Dead crowd, dull action and a botched/awkward finish.

Disappointing.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Turned on the Network a minute before Orton returned and couldn't help but mark out. :mark:

Still more fun watching 2000 so I wont suddenly forget the product is pure trash even with WM a month away. So I've been thinking... after finishing 1999, the Big Boss Man automatically took the #3 spot for favorite dead wrestler which was previously vacant. But I heard he was a good worker too so if anyone is familiar, some recommendations would be nice. I wont expect any of those to be from his last WWE run because I'm already watching it and he seems to be past it tbf, but in the early 90s more like it.

EDIT: Kidd and Cesaro tag team champions. :mark: :yes:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Turned on the Network a minute before Orton returned and couldn't help but mark out. :mark:
> 
> Still more fun watching 2000 so I wont suddenly forget the product is pure trash even with WM a month away. So I've been thinking... after finishing 1999, the Big Boss Man automatically took the [URL=http://www.wrestlingforum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=3]#3 [/URL] spot for favorite dead wrestler which was previously vacant. But I heard he was a good worker too so if anyone is familiar, some recommendations would be nice. I wont expect any of those to be from his last WWE run because I'm already watching it and he seems to be past it tbf, but in the early 90s more like it.


The best match he's ever had IMO is Vader vs The Boss Spring Stampede 1994. That's the GOAT super heavyweight battle for me. So unbelievably physical and yet contains tons of big moves and suplexes that just shouldn't be possible between 2 guys of that size.

He has a fabulous match against Dr. Death from Mid South as well.

If I think of some others, I'll let you know

Just curious but, you said Bossman is now your #3 favorite dead wrestler, I'm assuming Benoit and Eddie are your 1 and 2? If so, what about Randy Savage, Mr. Perfect, Bam Bam Bigelow, Dr. Death Steve Williams, Mitsuhara Misawa, Owen Hart, British Bulldog, and Brian Pillman? I like Bossman and all but I'd put all of those guys easily above him, and I'm sure I've forgotten some others.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Had high hopes for that but it was a big letdown.

**1/2

Awful, awful first hour.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Who the fuck is booking the endings to these matches tonight? No wonder this crowd is so dead. Goldust vs. Stardust was an abomination.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Just curious but, you said Bossman is now your [URL=http://www.wrestlingforum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=3]#3 [/URL] favorite dead wrestler, I'm assuming Benoit and Eddie are your 1 and 2? If so, what about Randy Savage, Mr. Perfect, Bam Bam Bigelow, Dr. Death Steve Williams, Mitsuhara Misawa, Owen Hart, British Bulldog, and Brian Pillman? I like Bossman and all but I'd put all of those guys easily above him, and I'm sure I've forgotten some others.


I'm not familiar enough to call any of those guys (other than Owen's last couple of years in the AE) a favorite so the #3 spot below Benoit and Eddie has always been vacant.

Boss Man took it by default after I enjoyed the fuck out of his 1999 heel work. Just top notch comedy all around. :lol


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Really liked that tag match. Cesaro and Kidd differentiate themselves from the pack with the way they work together as a team. Nice unique spots in that match such as the samoan drop onto the barricade, the Elginplex and springboard elbow drop, and Cesaro during the finish of that match. ****1/4*

Bossman and Vader had some super fun matches. Not only is that Spring Stampede match essential, but the Triple Threat match with Vader, Bossman, and Sting was really good. He had a good match with One Man Gang that I believe zep uploaded. Other than that, I'm not too big on him. A lot of people love his matches with Hogan for what it's worth. Bossman knows his role and he performed his gimmick very convincingly, but it was never one that interested me when it came to in-ring work. Lots of restholds, air punches, and bearhugs.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I will say it again: This Sting/HHH feud feels so damn forced and fabricated to boot that I cannot get into this, particularly when again there are several people I'd have above HHH in this slot. It doesn't help matters that WWE feels the need to produce their version of everybody, so this feels more like "WWE's version of Sting" as opposed to you know Sting.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

There hasn't been anything on this show I'd call good. Awful show so far.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

fpalm

**1/2 for Ambrose/BNB. Was a good match but the finish was beyond dumb and knocked off 1/2*. This whole show is just :lmao


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

This show blows balls. Jesus


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Reigns/Bryan better be epic.


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

HOLY FUCK TYSON KIDD HAS A TITLE :mark:


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

New Tag Champs, Orton returning, Wyatt calling out Taker, Ambrose stealing the belt and RUSEV.

Not bad for a B PPV, shame about the crowd.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> Still more fun watching 2000 so I wont suddenly forget the product is pure trash even with WM a month away. So I've been thinking... after finishing 1999, the Big Boss Man automatically took the #3 spot for favorite dead wrestler which was previously vacant. But I heard he was a good worker too so if anyone is familiar, some recommendations would be nice. I wont expect any of those to be from his last WWE run because I'm already watching it and he seems to be past it tbf, but in the early 90s more like it.


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2...g-bubba-rogers-uwf-mid-south-04-19-1987_sport

PHAT

That's zep's upload, too. He's like the new Seabs but with stream sites (Seabitch used to be an uploading GODDESS before the megaupload debacle; had a legendary megapost of like hundreds of matches).


-------------

Getting the Network ready to watch SummerSlam 2010. Is Speedline or whatever the fuck it's called still going? Might drop by that first for the hell of it.

edit - Wow this crowd does suck. Is this Bryan's eighth appearance in front of them or do they just not care?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

WrestlingOracle said:


> I will say it again: This Sting/HHH feud feels so damn forced and fabricated to boot that I cannot get into this, particularly when again there are several people I'd have above HHH in this slot. It doesn't help matters that WWE feels the need to produce their version of everybody, so this feels more like "WWE's version of Sting" as opposed to you know Sting.


It would be so natural and easier to build if it were Taker/Sting. Two icons clashing. I don't considering HHH an icon, so when the commentators build it that way, I can't help but roll my eyes.

It's even funnier if the rumours are true that Vince wanted Taker/Sting but HHH wanted HHH/Sting.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

That Reigns/Bryan match was fucking epic.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

People are talking about Fastlane and Mania while I'm just sitting here watching The Destruction of The Shield DVD I bought today.

It's great :drose


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Daniel Bryan's back must be killing him after that carry job.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Really enjoyed that main event, despite calling the finish from a mile away. Extremely physical and had me on the edge of my seat for the final minutes. *** 3/4 and added to my list.

Rest of the show? Fell terribly flat. 6-man had a weak as fuck ending, Orton's return was cool but it TOOK SO DAMN LONG I've lost my excitement a bit, Goldust/Stardust was terrible, Tag Title match was fun down the stretch but messy as a whole and the finish was random, HHH/Sting interaction was fine, Paige/Nikki was ok I guess(?), Ambrose/Barrett was I don't care because of another stupid finish, Wyatt's promo was the 2nd best thing of the night, and lastly Cena/Rusev was boring as shit in the first half before slightly picking up in the second until a finish that will likely lead to a rematch. 

This company is 0 for 2 with PPVs this year. Not good. Willing to bet next week's ROH 13th Anniversary Show trumps this 3-hour specially named edition of RAW.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I can see both sides of the coin on that one. Me personally? maybe because it is late and I dont feel like deeply analyzing anything and just wanted a match like that for some rasslin, I had some fun watching it personally. That was a horrendous crowd though goodness. The people who used to erupt for Lawler's comebacks/the strap coming down sure weren't in attendance.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Main event picked up for me about midway through. Obviously Bryan was good, but Reigns did well, I thought. There was always the possibility in my mind that they would add Bryan, but I'm glad they stuck with their plan. 

Also enjoyed Cena/Rusev. Cena is obviously winning at Mania, but this made Rusev look incredibly strong.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

I loved that triple suplex thing Reigns pulled out. The man brought the intensity to the match, that is for sure. His screaming and those stiff as hell shots were awesome. I am also glad that he dominated a good portion of the match. It makes him look strong for Lesnar.

Bryan put on a great match as well, and helped carry Reigns to his best match yet. Very good selling by both men as well. The near falls were great and the ending was perfect as well. **** from me.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

You know what the most depressing thing about all of this is? Not that Roman Reigns won, but that Daniel Bryan lost. Bryan is the most over guy in the company, right? We can all agree on that? He has no clear direction at all going into Wrestlemania. Here's the projected card:

Lesnar vs. Reigns (pretty much locked)
HHH vs. Sting (locked)
Taker vs. Wyatt
Orton vs. Rollins
Ambrose vs. Barrett
Cena vs. Rusev (I really hope not but it's likely)

So where does this leave Bryan? Does he ask for a match with Dolph Ziggler with no merit or meaning whatsover? Cause that sounds stupid as fuck to me. Ziggler is a glorified jobber. Does he face the returning Sheamus? Seems likely, but I'm pretty sure they've already given us the best they'll be able to give us a couple years back. Oh well. Why do I even care anymore? Vince is stupid.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> So where does this leave Bryan?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Bryan/Reigns is Reigns 2nd best match to date for me... not better than the Rusev match on SD earlier this year. The issue I had is the match dragged in the beginning, and only really picked up mid-way. Even then, it never reached "OMG" levels of awesomeness... it just got great. I dislike how Reigns kicked out of Bryan's finisher, but Bryan didn't kick out of Reigns. I would've preferred Bryan never hit his and Reigns just beats Bryan as he did, but that's more of a nit-pick than anything. Still, would put it at *** and maybe call it MOTN... either that or Rusev/Cena though I'm probably leaning more towards Rusev/Cena just for the finish being more appealing to me. It had similar problems, but as I said, I liked the ending. 

Overall I have absolutely no faith in Reigns vs. Lesnar... I also can't believe Vince is actually going through with this. Reigns is still a face too, so I just... I just don't know. There's no way they can put Bryan in the match now. There was no controversy whatsoever, and Bryan shook Reigns' hand after the match and told him to kick Lesnar's ass, basically admitting defeat. 

It's funny too, because Heyman did an amazing job of building Bryan vs. Lesnar on Raw and on the pre-show, and seemed to put more effort into that as opposed to Reigns vs. Lesnar, but now we're stuck with Lesnar/Reigns.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


>


"It's one of the great rivalries in the WWE" :cole

Bryan/Sheamus and Bryan/Ziggler should be good.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I can't be the only one that thought the main kinda stunk. First thought was that Bryan was channeling Bruiser Brody with his look, second thought was that Bryan was channeling Bruiser Brody by no-selling half of everything before the match got into the finish stretch. Slammed into the barricade and ring apron and then, like, is OK for a kick by the time Roman gets into the ring. Takes a Samoan Drop and gets up pretty much as he hits the ground. Has Reigns in a deathlock, gets punched in the face multiple times while Reigns screams and it doesn't seem to faze him. How the hell is anybody calling that a Bryan carry job? I didn't think Reigns was much - if at all - better, but he at least tried to add energy in the beginning when Bryan was just kicking with a blank stare. No, fuck it. I thought he was better. Not exactly stand-out, but better.

Thought it was funny that JBL decided to say "I've never seen Reigns hurting so much" while Reigns was upright after eating two straight dives. And caught Bryan on the third one.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I can't be the only one that thought the main kinda stunk. First thought was that Bryan was channeling Bruiser Brody with his look, second thought was that Bryan was channeling Bruiser Brody by no-selling half of everything before the match got into the finish stretch. Slammed into the barricade and ring apron and then, like, is OK for a kick by the time Roman gets into the ring. Takes a Samoan Drop and gets up pretty much as he hits the ground. Has Reigns in a deathlock, gets punched in the face multiple times while Reigns screams and it doesn't seem to faze him. How the hell is anybody calling that a Bryan carry job? I didn't think Reigns was much - if at all - better, but he at least tried to add energy in the beginning when Bryan was just kicking with a blank stare. No, fuck it. I thought he was better. Not exactly stand-out, but better.
> 
> Thought it was funny that JBL decided to say "I've never seen Reigns hurting so much" while Reigns was upright after eating two straight dives. And caught Bryan on the third one.


Really? I think I disagree with everything you said (respectfully of course). I recall there being a decent amount of time for Bryan to recover from getting slammed on the barricade, and that kick when Roman got into the ring was really cool with how it played into the story of Bryan having an experience advantage over Reigns. Roman's Samoan Drop is one of those moves in his comeback sequence where the wrestler gets up immediately, a la Cena's Throwback. Reigns punching Bryan made me cringe, and not because of any sort of poor acting, but because everything looked brutal and Bryan sold it as if he got socked by Stan Hansen. I thought it was clearly a Bryan carryjob, especially when Bryan clearly called the entire match. And I would reverse that statement about who brought the excitement: the crowd wasn't too hot for much of Reigns' offense, but they went bonkers for Bryan. Pretty clear who the better guy was in that match.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I loved Bryan/Reigns. The whole thing is just a metaphor for the relationship between WWE and Bryan and his fans. The match is good because Roman sucks and Bryan is the best. Bryan knows he's better the entire match and we know Bryan is better. He does all this cool and smart stuff the entire match and then Reigns is just like "PUNCH" and Bryan goes down. And that just keeps happening. Bryan has this super smart strategy where he adapts to what happens in the ring constantly. Reigns is just "PUNCH!" "SPEAR!" and the 3 other moves that he did. Bryan is clearly better, loses in a way that we see coming (but we all saw the outcome coming the day it was booked) and we're mad. It's some next level stuff from a story aspect. 

It's also a pretty amazing carry job by Bryan. I guess Reigns had some good looking elbow strikes but nothing else that he did was super impressive and he mostly just punched Bryan a bunch. Bryan on the other hand played a compelling character who you could read his thoughts from the looks on his face and the way he carried himself in the ring.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Main was good - ***3/4 territory - was surely physical and composed, but I felt some redundancy and it never got to that level for me. Still was Reigns best that I recall (surpassing Orton @ SS).

Not gonna lie, left me very cold about the future. Without a curveball of the Kurt Angle/Sami Zayn variety, Bryan's WM is looking very dull. I do not want Ziggler or Sheamus, sorry but that's what it is. Neither are WM-worthy imo. And I don't get that - how do you have your 1/1a face with no opponent so close to the biggest show of the year? And they've got my boy with Tyson's Kidd for the foreseeable future. How far he's fallen. Lord help us all. 

And Reigns is getting booed at Wrestlemania, believe that. Split crowd would be optimistic - maybe if Heyman comes out with a mic to set the table or something like that. Has that happened? A face getting booed during his first ME/title win? It was still the right call given the shitty situation they put themselves in - you can't do the triple-threat _again_. The Rumble is where they fudged the bucket, and they had to stand by it.


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

As far as I'm concerned Kidd is stuck with Cesaro more than Cesaro is stuck with Kidd. They're both great in the ring, but Tyson is way better at everything else.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> No need to do so. Here it is:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Sure, if I have the match ill see what I can do.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Cena/Rusev ***: think there's potential there to do better at Mania, ridiculous finish

Bryan/Reigns ***1/4: Reigns best singles match by default, the crowd killed it a bit for me


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

I'm amazed at some of the ratings itt. With Rusev/Cena, it was a bore. Cena always whispering to Rusev is an instant killer. ffs he was whispering to him while he was in the stf so you knew that the move was just kind of there (even if we knew that in the first place). 

Bryan/Reigns: match was probably fine but with the crowd the way it was, I just didn't give two fucks about it. Put that in front of a hot crowd and it would get higher than a DUD rating from me.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Bryan vs Reigns *****

I couldn't get into this match at all. The lack of selling really hurt this and the match felt to my turn-your turn in the early stages. Reigns gives Bryan a belly to belly on the floor and Bryan just pops up like nothing. Sure, the argument can be made he did go back to sell once he lured Reigns into the steps but come on. I'd think an overhead belly to belly would hurt a hell of a lot more than running into the stairs. Also, Reigns hits a ridiculous amount of elbows in this match only for Bryan to miraculously recover from them. I get the idea they were gong for but it was just poorly executed. Had it been better paced, this could have been a great match. But for the first half of the match they were just doing stuff for the sake of doing it and the later half just didn't seem to connect with what was going in the first half.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Wasn't feeling Reigns/Bryan AT ALL. The selling was spotty at best, Bryan didn't do really any interesting offense, and of course Reigns is so green it's not like Daniel had all that much to work with anyway. Maybe I'm being biased, but it just looked like Bryan was at a total loss of what to do with Reigns, so he just kept kicking him over and over again. It's like Bryan couldn't get anything going cause all Roman did was lay around and throw a few punches here and there. I also think it's pretty obvious Bryan's heart wasn't in that match at all. He isn't stupid, he knows the better that match is, the higher people will be on Reigns, and that will just continue to lessen his chances of being the top baby face in the company. Also, ring rust has to be a factor as well, as Bryan hasnt been anywhere near his 2012-2013 levels of greatness since he came back from injury.

Basically, that match felt like a whole lot of nothing to me. No real story, the crowd hurt it big time too. Everyone knew Roman was winning so why even bother with the match? Well, I take that back, I guess the story was Bryan is the better wrestler but he can't overcome Reigns strength. But it was just weakly executed. If they were really going for that story, Bryan should have channeled 2008 Danielson vs Black New Horizons and taken it to the mat and just punished Reigns with some wicked submissions and shoulder work (to prevent the spear/super man punch).

I have been on record as being a Reigns supporter and thinking he just needs seasoning before he's ready to take off, but the way WWE has gone about this has made me actually dislike the guy. He just doesn't have one single like able aspect for me.

I also really really don't like Bryans new look. The pony tail looks fucking dumb. Go back to your 2012 look from your feud with Punk, when you had the shaved head and trimmed beard and looked like a sawed off pit bull. 

I know Bryan can sell at a world class level, but he didn't do that last night. Part of me wonders if he was specifically instructed not to, to keep from him getting all the sympathy and having everyone turn on Reigns. That's just my conspiracy theory, I can't think of any other reason why he worked that match the way he did: kick kick kick, YES YES, no sell, sell a bit, fire up, kick kick kick. 

Oh and FUCK that stupid ass camera shot when Bryan was going for the diving headbutt and Reigns caught him with the superman punch. That was one of the dumbest things ever, made it look like a totally contrived, Kurt Angle-esque spot. Like when Angle climbed the ropes just to get super kicked at Vengeance 2005.

Ratings for last night:

6 man tag: *** (came to my senses a bit on that one)
Goldust vs Stardust: *1/2
Cesaro/Kidd vs Usos: **
Cena vs Rusev: **1/4
Ambrose vs Barrett: **1/2
Bryan vs Reigns: ***

What a totally shitty and pointless event. That crowd sucked ass and there is no excuse for paying money to see a PPV then just sitting on their hands, but damn there wasn't much to get excited for. The only 3 guys that got any sort of decent response at all were Ryback, Ziggler, and Bryan.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I must have been watching a different match than everyone because the only thing I saw that you guys also did was that Bryan could have stayed down a tad bit longer after getting smashed on to the barricade.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Enjoyed the Sting/Trips segment. 

Main event was ok, alot of no selling in it though which did take me out of it I have to say. They sure made sure to make Roman look strong though eh.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Huh I actually didn't hate the show. I thought the opener was very good. Babyfaces running wild to start a match is always somewhat fun even just for the novelty of it in 2015. Heat segment was even pretty good. I thought Rowan looked really good in this but they've taught me already not to care about him. Ryback did exactly what Ryback should do which is power moves off hot tags. Anything resembling a tag division that matters would do Ryback wonders so he can just be the hot tag powerhouse guy. I think Ziggler is becoming a better babyface worker in terms of during the right things to garner sympathy besides flashy moves and bumps. Finish was kinda dumb in that The Authority look smarter than the babyfaces way too often. Made more sense with the Orton return but they still could have given Dolph the win and then do the beat down. Instead they made all 3 look like geeks and gave them nothing in return. Orton return was well done. Rollins even runs like a shithead.

Goldust/Dusty promo before and after the match were both awesome. Dusty looks like death now. I was into this being a good match at the start but they never really let the match be what I was willing to let it be. Didn't think it was bad but underwhelming for sure and not really Cody or Dustin's fault. Crowd was totally dead for 90% of it and that finish absolutely sucked even without the ref botch. Cody plays a bad character really well.

Tag Titles match should have been way better than it was. DIED when Cesaro took off his head thing and had a pair of Beats on too. Leg work meant nothing as Bad Leg Uso forgot which Uso he was and ran about on it willy nilly after. Cesaro and Kidd did absolutely nothing to be heels and beat the babyfaces straight up.

Sting/Hunter promo was fine to get to where they needed to. I did Sting not speaking. They've booked this pretty well bar Hunter cutting a babyface promo and making this WWE vs WCW and him being the loyal soldier representing the brand you're watching. So you either hate the brand or you love the heel. Great stuff. Hunter's a good talker but he's really dumb content wise for his promos.

I don't think Paige has had a good match on the main roster yet.

Barrett/Ambrose was bad. All I remember is the finish and I only just watched it. Has Barrett ever had a match above good? I think there was one with Sheamus and maybe one with Bryan once. Is that it? Ambrose has really sunk since the Rollins feud which is a shame.

Taker swerve was super obvious. I don't think Bray is a very good promo at all. I can't believe Taker is coming back post Streak.

Cena/Rusev I thought was bad. Just didn't click at all. Another lame finish too. How many great matches has Cena had this decade? Less than 5? Obviously the Punk ones, Bryan at Summerslam, Rey on Raw. Am I missing some obvious ones? I thought he'd really bring it here but he seemed to be going through the motions. I'm not one to usually pick up on spot calling but Cena's was insultingly obvious here. It feels like Lana doesn't do anything anymore either besides I guess try to interfere. The match didn't click but I blame most of it on WWE's booking of Rusev since the Swagger feud because all that heat has been killed since then and there's barely even a USA chant left now. Really Rusev has done nothing at all in like 4 months now. Does Lana cut promos a lot less often now too? That doesn't help either. I was excited for this pairing but I don't care at all for this at Mania now.

Reigns/Bryan I thought was really good. Only thing that is keeping me from calling it great was the lack of excitement through near falls during the finishing stretch. Besides the running knee near fall which you're an idiot if you thought would be the finish Bryan never even had a believable finish and neither did Reigns really before the Spear. I'm not saying they needed to spam their finishers more but at least give Bryan a few near falls of roll ups at the end. Speaking of that Spear counter looked awesome. The finisher kickout thing has really ruined the most exciting part of these either can win matches because it's just so obvious that the first finisher won't end it and when it does it's almost anti climatic. Dug more intense serious Bryan in this. Didn't really get the Danielson esque control segment I thought I'd get from this. Pretty much Brayn just running through his usual moveset shtick but for longer. It's such a shame they limit his moveset so much. Reigns looked great in this I thought. His elbows look awesome and have me more hyped for the Lesnar match being a great slugfest if he comes at Lesnar with those and it's not just Reigns getting tossed around (which it probably will be). Belly to belly overhead on the floor spot was great. Really liked the story that for as good as Bryan is technically, Reigns' power will always overcome it and Cole got that story over pretty well to his credit. They were still awful though. JBL said Show/Lesnar would be money and something he'd love to see forgetting that he called it 13 months ago. King made a joke about Show not actually being bald but that he was taller than his hair. Yeah. JBL's Mil Mascaras obsession is disturbing too and I don't care one bit that he follows Rugby scores.

I really don't care about anything on Mania. Sting/Hunter and Taker/Bray I don't care for at all. Lesnar/Reigns I'm at least intrigued by. Cena/Rusev I don't care to see again now. Rollins/Orton will probably be good because of Rollins and the crowd should hopefully be into it. Bryan will get something even if it seems it can only be Ziggler or Sheamus now but it's at least a good match. Ambrose/Barrett I don't care for. Goldust/Stardust I still have hope for. Yeah. I enjoyed this show more than most of them from the last year or so at least but it still had more bad than good.*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I think there is hope if they make Brock/Reigns into a slugfest and an all out kick ass brawl, but i cant deny I'm fed up we ain't getting Bryan/Brock. Or maybe ever by the looks of it. 

Which probably won't happen. With 5 weeks to go, looks like Brock's last match too.  Although there is still time and hope there i guess.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

#Lexa's Beautiful Skin said:


> Cena/Rusev I thought was bad. Just didn't click at all. Another lame finish too. How many great matches has Cena had this decade? Less than 5? Obviously the Punk ones, Bryan at Summerslam, Rey on Raw. Am I missing some obvious ones?.


Singles matches I would consider "great" from Cena since 2010:

vs. Punk (Money in the Bank 2011)
vs. Mysterio (7/25/11)
vs. Punk (Summerslam 2011)
vs. Punk (8/22/11)
vs. Lesnar (Extreme Rules 2012)
vs. Punk (Night of Champions 2012)
vs. Punk (11/12/12)
vs. Punk (2/25/13)
vs. Bryan (Summerslam 2013)
vs. Rollins (12/27/13)
vs. Cesaro (2/17/14)
vs. Wyatt (Wrestlemania 30)

I think that's it. It's not too bad of a list, but considering that half of the list is with one man who is gone from the business, things aren't looking too good for Cena as this decade goes on. I have no clue how Cena somehow got worse as a "big time player". No tension whatsoever in his matches anymore. The AA used to make me shit my pants, now I couldn't care less.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*So basically just the Lesnar one Cena performance wise. So 4 guys in the decade he's put in a great performance against. Tad concerning. I guess you could also argue that he still brings it against the very best but isn't producing Lashley/Khali like carry jobs anymore. I wouldn't blame Cena for the massacre of his finisher either. I mean yeah he probably has the pull to say no but they book everyone to kick out of everyone's finisher and when you're in as many top matches as Cena it's inevitable. *


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Was this Rusev's first legitimate U.S. Title defense since winning the belt from Sheamus like 3 months ago? I can't recall him ever defending it, and if he did it was against Reigns in a DQ finish or something. That belt (along with the IC Title) are both complete fucking jokes. Since beating Ziggler, Barrett has lost to fucking Sin Cara & R-Truth and looked like a giant pussy against Ambrose. This booking crew needs to be slapped.

Orton vs. Rollins is the match I'm most excited for at Mania. Taker/Wyatt will be really cool as a novelty but I have no idea how the match will turn out. Same goes for HHH/Sting. Hopefully that's a Street Fight. Lesnar vs. Reigns is very concerning. How's the crowd gonna be? Who knows!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bray having a bigger match than Rollins at WM :lmao

Oh, and that PPV. Nothing. For three hours. Yawn.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Bryan/Reigns was 20 mins. of Bryan no-selling and just kicking Reigns to no end, and letting Reigns kick out of his almost unkickoutable (fuck you, I'm a word genius) finisher almost without impact. It wasn't BAD, hell I wouldn't even give it a not good rating (I'd give it around ***), but come the fuck on, Daniel just seemed off. And Reigns was just Reigns. Bleh.

And the rest of the show was UNBEARABLE. The 6-man tag was good, I'll give it that. But Cody/Dustin was a horrendously big time letdown w/a woeful ending; Barrett/Ambrose picked up in the 2nd half but the 1st was bleh and the ending was terrible again; Usos/Cesaro & Kidd was whatever; the Divas match... did it even happen?; and Rusev/Cena was boring for the majority of it, only picking up near the ending (which I actually liked, contrary to most of the show). The best part of the PPV was a fucking promo (HHH and Sting), and the 2nd best was Orton's return... THEN it was Bray. And only THEN would come either the 6-man or Bryan/Reigns.

And the crowd.... my God the crowd. FUCK. FUCK FUCK FUCKITY FUCK FUCK FUCKSOME YOU FUCKING DO-NOTHING SILENT FUCKERS I FUCKING HATE YOU. God, I need to get a Goddamn blowjob right now to relax from this shit. What a terrible show it was. And some people were actually optimistic for it? Ha.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

*Re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues &amp; Bobby Eaton*

Henry/Cena keeps getting slept on. But that was a whole of lot of Henry being grand, I'd admit. Someone talked up Cody playing off crowd reactions, ad lib, and it reminded me of Henry's performance here. Glad I got a chance to bring it up. Everything I love in wrestling right there in his performance. 

Still a very good resume. Those matches are all high end so even if his batting average isn't as consistent as it once was, he remains a very good hand. Super fun guy on house shows, too. Though he has become a lot more formulaic and over-exxagerated in recent years. The way he kicks out of a nearfall bugs the fuck out of me each and every time. It's too forceful for someone who supposedly almost lost a match. The limp shoulder raise is a lost art in modern wrestling. 

Last sentence should get a rise out of the guy who called me pretentious in the Other Section.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Really? I think I disagree with everything you said (respectfully of course). I recall there being a decent amount of time for Bryan to recover from getting slammed on the barricade, and that kick when Roman got into the ring was really cool with how it played into the story of Bryan having an experience advantage over Reigns. Roman's Samoan Drop is one of those moves in his comeback sequence where the wrestler gets up immediately, a la Cena's Throwback. Reigns punching Bryan made me cringe, and not because of any sort of poor acting, but because everything looked brutal and Bryan sold it as if he got socked by Stan Hansen. I thought it was clearly a Bryan carryjob, especially when Bryan clearly called the entire match. And I would reverse that statement about who brought the excitement: the crowd wasn't too hot for much of Reigns' offense, but they went bonkers for Bryan. Pretty clear who the better guy was in that match.


Didn't know that about the Samoan Drop. I mean that kind of WWE-ism sucks no matter who does it but it's also something as a WWE watcher you just kind of have to get numb to. Really sucky that it's used on as cool a move as the Samoan Drop, though. Cena's thing is terrible enough that I don't care how weak the move looks.

I don't remember there being much time being the barricade spot, and Bryan was the first one to make a real action after it. I don't remember _exactly_ what happened, but Bryan was somehow first into the ring, and on his feet by the time Reigns was getting back in. After he was driven into the barricade, then the apron, and flat out chucked back into the barricade. And he didn't, like, hold his back or give any indication that it meant anything. And I thought that kick as a transition was pretty weak looking, tbh.

I thought Bryan did a fine job selling the elbows/punches as they were happening. Just not after it. It was like, he took the hits and was OK once it was over. I watched some of SummerSlam 2010 yesterday and during the opener I saw Kofi holds his ribs and make cringey facials and I literally thought in a moment of intense nerdiness, "Bryan wasn't doing this."

I didn't focus on the crowd reaction (it's hard to focus on nothing :side for the excitement. Reigns just had those intense moment of firing away at Bryan, and Bryan just shrugged it off and kicked a little. I'm repeating myself now (and will below).

I should mention that I was probably harsh saying the match stunk. I mean the finish stretch was OK; I just didn't really give any crap by that point. If pressed I would watch the match again without dreading it.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Singles matches I would consider "great" from Cena since 2010:


Opinion on the Batista LMS?





The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Well, I take that back, I guess the story was Bryan is the better wrestler but he can't overcome Reigns strength. But it was just weakly executed. If they were really going for that story, Bryan should have channeled 2008 Danielson vs Black New Horizons and taken it to the mat and just punished Reigns with some wicked submissions and shoulder work (to prevent the spear/super man punch).


That too. He can't match power game so all he does is kick? I mean he's Bryan Danielson so he's an amazing kicker, but, he wasn't here. They (the kicks) looked so much more gingerly thrown than they usually do. Not like Raja Lion or anything but not convincing enough to make me think it actually should have taken Reigns down. Other than that kick to the head. Again, finish stretch I didn't really have a problem with.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I also really really don't like Bryans new look. The pony tail looks fucking dumb.


I totally agree with this as well. I mean the look itself I don't mind, but I think it's wrong for *him*. He looks more dirty and weirdo than he did when he was tricked into being a Wyatt. It would be a good look for Harper or Ian Rotten or the Necro Butcher. Not seeing it for Bryan. I get the idea WWE purposely want him to not look good as another excuse to not push him. Remember he had disgusting as fuck merchandise like the cap with the beard on it and the reaction was "they probably want it to sell like shit"? Kind of the impression I get.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I know Bryan can sell at a world class level, but he didn't do that last night. Part of me wonders if he was specifically instructed not to, to keep from him getting all the sympathy and having everyone turn on Reigns. That's just my conspiracy theory, I can't think of any other reason why he worked that match the way he did: kick kick kick, YES YES, no sell, sell a bit, fire up, kick kick kick.


EXACTLY how I reacted. I thought he sold just fine once they hit the finishing stretch (though I kinda stopped caring by that point), but nothing before that looked like it had any impact. And he nothing but kick. And not even Bryan Danielson-level kicks.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Opener was whatever. I thought it might be pretty good at one point after Ryback came in off the hot tag but then it just faded out and the finish was terrible.

Cody vs Goldust was bad. I don't even remember what happened in it, I think they just did moves until the random finish. I get what they were going for with that finish but neither guy looked very good.

Tag title match was another whatever match, Kidd looked pretty good in it, Cesaro isn't being showcased enough at all. They have a guy who can get over on his move set alone and they don't let him do any of it? Insane.

Triple H/Sting stuff I didn't mind. I still kind of find Sting being in the WWE cool, he looked ok actually, a lot better than he did at Survivor Series or whatever PPV it was he debuted. Still something that could have happened on RAW but I guess it was something people were willing to pay to see for some reason.

Divas match I didn't really pay attention to apart from Nikki Bella looking hot again.

Barrett/Ambrose was nothing really. Finish was fucking awful.

I think Bray Wyatt is awesome and I liked his promo. They seem to be trying to make Bray out to be some kind of special attraction now having him hardly wrestle and cut these promos etc. It would work if he hadn't been booked like total shit. I swear he's the most poorly-used talent on the roster.

Thought Cena/Rusev was really good. Rusev is awesome and is the main reason this was good. I'm pretty sure when the crowd started a Jerry chant like fucking idiots, Rusev started mouthing off the Lawler and talking shit to him which was awesome but the commentators didn't even say anything :lmao awful. His reaction after Cena kicked out of that super kick near the end was brilliant. I didn't buy any near falls and the finish kind of took me out of it but this was really well layed out with a great Rusev performance.

Bryan/Reigns on first viewing felt like it was great. Bryan was the best in it. This Bryan Danielson is awesome and the one I want to see, his cocky wrestler schtick was back and and his mannerisms and expressions ruled. What he does amazingly in this is work over Reigns but he knows the crowd want to see his high impact stuff so he works it in to a workover like the dropkicks in the corner that usually come in the finishing run. He knows how to work both styles together and exactly when to transition. Constantly picking a spot on Reigns and going after it to the point Reigns could barely move was fantastic. And Reigns? He ruled. His selling was seriously on point here. He was aggressive in everything he did and oh my lord does he throw some disgusting strikes or what. Some of his counters to Bryans stuff were great in showing that he's the brawler and can out-brawl Bryan, but then Bryan manages to find a way to take it back to wrestling and Reigns is always in trouble in that situation. It's a great dynamic and they meshed so well. They also did what I wanted and really did hold nothing back and went hard with the strikes. I'd watch these two wrestler again and again based on this. They didn't go in to overkill and it actually felt like they were holding back some stuff for a rematch down the line, but that does make the worst part of the match, the knee kick out, even worse in retrospect. If people are saying this is a carry job then that's insane. Both guys looked fantastic. Bryan doesn't look weak losing at all, Reigns put Bryan over big time with his selling during and after the match, it felt like a war while doing the story justice. People say Bryan isn't believable 'fighting' Reigns which is a laughable comment anyway considering this is pro wrestling but I'm not sure how anyone can watch this and think that. I liked this probably more than most people.

PS. Commentary was at it's dirt worst all show. Sweet Jesus. Crowd sucked too especially for the main event. The crowd has hyped for their brawl but didn't seem bothered by the match.


I feel like people are missing a lot in Bryans performance here. He didn't go full Bryan Danielson but he did a hell of a lot more than he does in his tv matches. Reigns was great too. The Reigns hate is ridiculous at this point.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*Re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues &amp; Bobby Eaton*



Rah said:


> Henry/Cena keeps getting slept on. But that was a whole of lot of Henry being grand, I'd admit. Someone talked up Cody playing off crowd reactions, ad lib, and it reminded me of Henry's performance here. Glad I got a chance to bring it up. Everything I love in wrestling right there in his performance.
> 
> Still a very good resume. Those matches are all high end so even if his batting average isn't as consistent as it once was, he remains a very good hand. Super fun guy on house shows, too. Though he has become a lot more formulaic and over-exxagerated in recent years. The way he kicks out of a nearfall bugs the fuck out of me each and every time. It's too forceful for someone who supposedly almost lost a match. The limp shoulder raise is a lost art in modern wrestling.
> 
> Last sentence should get a rise out of the guy who called me pretentious in the Other Section.


Ha. Now I'm gonna have to seek out this discussion just to see the claim.

--------

It's p. alarming at how Danielson vs Reigns went last night. I don't mind it being structured just for Reigns to look good - and he did, tbhayley - but yeeesh, at how it made for the overall match & performance of Danielson. This felt like the 180 build that Zayn vs Steen did for me. It was build up that we'd get this mega collision, then when the match happens it goes in a completely different direction. Where was the fire of Danielson in this match? I'm not blaming him as not putting anything into it, as much as I'm probably certain it was more on the agents/bookers telling him to not "be Bryan Danielson" in this match. It was odd. So much so, you knew something HAD to be up or else he'd at least look incredible despite losing. _(those dive spots for one looked especially awful)_ It just wasn't the match they played it up to be. Good for Reigns in the long run, and I actually do want to see Reigns vs Brock. Just about the only thing for WM I really do care to see happen, other than Taker showing up. But damn; was this ever a disappointment. More on the "what were you thinking?" type variety.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah, that's basically what I thought about Danielson lacking fire. Actually I did kind of think that Bryan wrestled as somebody who had something else on his mind. Like when a wrestler dies and you can't blame people on the tribute show for not being up to speed. Almost seemed distracted.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Oh man, I think I watched something totally different from you blokes.

I also disagree about his look. It's awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You may have. Danielson from tag team turmoil compared to vs Reigns last night was a severe case of night & day.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Bryan vs Reigns was pretty mediocre. Would go ★★½ for it at most. Reigns did better than I expected for him (but then again, my expectations for him are nearly as low as Khali) and that overhead belly to belly was surprisingly good for someone like him. Like others have said, Bryan just seemed to lack that fire in his performance. I couldn't get into the match at all, just felt dull and dragged. "This is awesome" has to be the most annoying chant at this point. A couple of finisher kick outs and some geeks in the audience start chanting that crap instantly. Their attempts at putting over Reigns at the expense of everyone else will also not sit well with me in any shape or form. Orton match at SummerSlam is still Reigns' best imo and even that one is only ★★★ range and just decent. Things don't look too good for the Brock match because as incredible as Brock is, he doesn't carry matches.

Only match I'm interested in at WM is Orton vs Rollins. Orton should win this to complete the story and Rollins should recover by cashing in successfully. Either at the end of the night if when Reigns wins or the night after. In the meantime, I'm just hoping Brock re-signs for at least another year. It'd be a crime if his run would go completely wasted on a grand total of 2 fresh opponents (Punk and Rollins) and a bunch of stale ones.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

I'd love to know why people think Reigns was bad in the match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm trying to think of a match where I've been outright repulsed by Reigns or found him to even be riddled w/mediocrity. I can't find one. Being made into a pointless FIP is about all I got. And I don't hold that against him.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

There's nothing that Reigns does in the ring that is flat out _bad_. It's just that nothing about him is good or interesting either. Bland and small moveset, weak comebacks and subpar selling that does nothing to build sympathy and just flat out despicable booking that makes him look like superman and everyone else like shit. Only times I've found him to be anything above mediocre was the hot tag stuff in The Shield and his performance last year on this day in the first Wyatt match when he was the last man standing from his team. Legit got goosebumps watching that match. As a singles competitor, he's hopeless and dead in the water.

Finished the last Raw before Judgment Day and had to laugh at the ending when they did a screwjob finish in the Benoit/Rock submission match and some fan(s) started throwing paper planes into the ring. :lmao


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

It looks like we're gonna get a 4-way for the IC Title at Mania. Barrett vs. Ambrose vs. Ziggler vs. R-TRUTH. Someone seems a bit out of place there, huh? :lol Random turn of events tonight.

Did anyone else hear Truth on commentary? I swear at one point he asked Cole if he had any enemas. :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> singles competitor, he's hopeless and dead in the water.


Well, that's extreme. Especially considering, just for one mention, I already strongly disagree. Not sure how going from _"There's nothing that Reigns does in the ring that is flat out bad"_ meets up w/denouncing his singles career altogether. When the case of poor booking is more of an enemy w/points given, as it is w/a lot in WWE.

--------

:lmao @ booking w/anything involving Usos.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Maybe I went a bit too far and hyperbole with that one, but is he really up for the challenge? He's already been handed everything on a silver platter without having to prove himself. Does he really respect the business enough to wanna improve as a performer _while_ he's at the top? Maybe if they stop trying to shove him down our throats with cringeworthy nonsense like that stupid segment they just had where Paul Heyman was this close to call him a god amongst mortals in wrestling history I'll be able to look at it more objectively. But as it stands right now, his push is the biggest buzzkill I could've imagined on the road to the biggest event of the year. If he improves to being a consistently good performer like Cena did, he'll earn my respect and I might even like him, but right now, this close to the main event of WM, he's simply poor.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I say sure & time will tell. From my side of already being a fan and liking his work, it's not optimism that's purely leading me along, rather than it is what I see. I can understand not "liking" him and lacking interest in that area, b/c well, that's just something that happens. But laziness + Reigns has never been a combo I've noticed. He knows the pressure on him. And I'm certain he knows he has to deliver in that area or else he'd be like someone else given a top spot - only to be shoved down the card never to reach that place ever again. (Miz comes to mind. Yeah a heel, but look where he's at now and he main evented + won at a WM) Shoving down our throats is something I can agree/disagree w/. Again, I don't really see it being as THAT bad - comparable to others over the years - but at the same time, that's just how WWE does business. When focus is on the person they're wanting to put over big, the focus shines SUPER bright.

I'd certainly prefer a different road from Reigns in some areas at this point, but he's been working for me on the over-under and I'm quite excited for what the prospects will be once he locks up w/Brock. I'm actually more nervous about which Lesnar will show up. Brock the beast or Brock "all I do now is german suplexes b/c fuck it".


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

In most other periods of time in the WWE, Reigns' act would resonate with all demographics and we would see more supporters for him. But the problem is that Reigns is getting this top spot in spite of other young stars who happen to be superior to him in well, everything. Maybe if things were more like 2005 when Cena, Batista, Orton, and Edge's rise to prominence all coincided with neither of them hurting the other's progress, but those days are past us. I'm still a fan of him and I will support him in his feud against Lesnar. I just wish I was supporting Ambrose or Bryan against Lesnar instead.

There have been quite a lot of examples of lazy Reigns. One in particular was a match he had with Rollins at the end of last year. No snap behind anything Reigns did. Sad to see him drag Rollins down in that bout. There were some other ones with Bray Wyatt where all both guys did was rest on the mat like Snorlax. But generally speaking, I can't think of too many outright bad matches Reigns has had recently. Heck, he had a very fun match with The Miz.




Now onto more important things. Roddy Piper vs. Jimmy Snuka (7/15/84)






Probably the best I've seen of Snuka and one of the best matches I've seen of Piper. Surprised by the high risk maneuvers both guys pulled off here, especially Snuka jumping over the top freaking rope! The way Piper walks around outside makes him look like a serial killer. Outside of those weak looking left hand jabs eight minutes into the video, Piper's punches looked sharp. Also liked how Piper worked on Snuka's forehead once Jimmy started bleeding. And then when Jimmy saw blood on his hands and went crazy, it was really cool. Reminded me of Jim Duggan in a bullrope match he had with Buzz Sawyer.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Fastlane thoughts:

The 6 man was solid. Ryback looked great off the hot tag. Kane fucking sucks. Orton's return was well done. Sucks that Rollins is most likely jobbing to him at Mania but the match should be good.

Didn't like Cody/Goldust at all. The pre-match promo got me excited for it and then they went out there and tried to tell a shitty story in the ring. They did a bad job of trying to tell that shitty story too. Not what I wanted to see. Oh and the finish was horrible.

Tag title match was whatever. 

HHH/Sting segment was good and the second best thing on the show. 

Divas match was trash. Nikki Bella's body is a joy to behold though. I don't skip her matches.

Ambrose/Barrett was forgettable.

The Taker/Wyatt swerve was totally predictable but fine for what it was. 

Cena/Rusev was disappointing. I wouldn't call it bad but it fell way below my expectations. Maybe they were holding back for the rematch? Sub-par effort from Cena, including but not limited to his horrendous spot calling. They definitely have a way better match in them.

I'm surprised by some of the negative reviews in here because I thought the main event was great on first viewing. I'll have to re-watch it but I didn't have any major issues with any of what they did and I really dug the power guy vs wrestler dynamic. Reigns looked legitimately good here. MotN by a mile and might be my MotY so far if it holds up on second look.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That lengthy Reigns vs Rollins match at the end of last year really rocked, so that's only more par the positive from my outlook.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I only remember watching one Reigns/Rollins match, the one from the NOC go-home show (you know, when Reigns had to fucking go over Rollins clean), and that wasn't bad. Don't remember a second but I haven't heard much of good about it so yeah.

MOTY so far is either Lesnar/Cena/Rollins or Zayn/Owens. Tag Team Turmoil would come a close second. Bryan/Reigns would be lucky to even make my top 10.

Genuinely excited to see Yeah's SummerSlam 2010 ramble/bash/review/whatever btw. Those are always gold to read, even if I don't agree w/all of his opinions


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

First Rollins/Reigns match in September I didn't think was bad, just not good either. The second one though, which had to have happened after his return, I thought was horrible. 

Most of Reigns matches I find pretty bad. They're predictable and Reigns is extremely repetitive. He's built up as powerhouse, but hasn't shown any exceptional strength outside of some ridiculous spots like how he countered Bryan's... whathamacallit... you know, the one where he locks both legs and then grabs the arms, stretching them and eventually going on his back and lifting them up in the air. Yeah, that part where Reigns just powers out with is legs was totally ridiculous. I could maybe by someone like Henry doing, but Reigns? Fuck that. His psychology is very weak too. His selling is very inconsistent. Sometimes he's good, other times he makes Cena's bad selling look good. 

As far as pushed guys go, the only guy in the last 10 years I can think of who I'd put Reigns above as a worker is Khali. Hell, even Barrett in 2010 when he was awful still had that great match with Cena at HIAC and a pretty good one with Jericho around Summerslam time, both of which I'd put above anything Reigns has done. And even Ryback during his main event push in 2012-2013 had that great TLC match with Punk. 

All in all, Reigns is terrible right now. I don't even want to get into his mic work. Does that mean he's doomed to be terrible forever? No, but only Reigns can make the necessary improvements. I hope he does, because I don't want to go through ten years of a guy worse than Cena... who at one point was actually really good.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

i think it's called the surfboard, santa.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> i think it's called the surfboard, santa.


Would help if commentators mentioned names of moves nowadays.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Reigns has had a bunch of solid 3 plus star matches. His matches with Rollins, Rusev, Del Rio, Punk, Orton, and Daniel now are all 3 plus stars in my opinion. 

For WWE MOTY it would have to be HHH/Cena/Rollins from Royal Rumble, Tag team turmoil, and now Bryan/Roman.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

WWE MOTY is easily Zayn/Owens imo. The restholds were a little offputting, but everything else was fantastic.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hennessey said:


> Reigns has had a bunch of solid 3 plus star matches. His matches with Rollins, Rusev, Del Rio, Punk, Orton, and Daniel now are all 3 plus stars in my opinion.
> 
> For WWE MOTY it would have to be *HHH/Cena/Rollins* from Royal Rumble, Tag team turmoil, and now Bryan/Roman.


Which alternate reality are you from? 

Did I post my thoughts on the PPV yet btw? I forget. And am too lazy to search my own posts to find out.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Hennessey said:


> Reigns has had a bunch of solid 3 plus star matches. His matches with Rollins, Rusev, Del Rio, Punk, Orton, and Daniel now are all 3 plus stars in my opinion.


Just to play along... and I'm pretty much going based off memory here, but here's how I'd rate the Reigns matches I can remember:

vs. Bryan Raw 2013- *3/4
vs. Punk Raw 2014- *
vs. Wyatt Raw February/March 2014- DUD
vs. Kane LMS- *
vs. Barrett SD 2014- *3/4
vs. Orton SS- **1/2
vs. Rusev 2014... I think their first one on one match - **
vs. Rollins Raw before NOC- **
vs. Big Show... all matches range- DUD-* (though tbh I can't really remember any of them except the one where Show beat Reigns)
vs. Rusev SD 2015- ***
vs. Harper I (think it happened in January this year?)- *1/4
vs. Harper II SD February 2015- **1/4
vs. Bryan Fastlane- ***

I still haven't seen the Del Rio match, but that's where I stand on Reigns matches. TBH though only his top 3 matches I have stuck in my head at those ratings, the rest can fluctuate because I just don't care to keep track of them. 

Reigns actually this year so far hasn't been too bad. Of course he's gotten to work with some good workers like Rusev, Harper, and Bryan and still hasn't produced a great match, but it's still worth mentioning that three of his top four singles matches came in the last 3 months. Maybe there is some slow improvement going on.

As far as MOTY so far, it's easily Rollins/Lesnar/Cena at ****1/4 and nothing else. Even if including NXT, I think I'd go ***1/2-***3/4 on the main event. Rest of the card I didn't see.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

RAW was fucking awful last night.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Judgment Day 2000:*

Kurt Angle, Edge & Christian vs Too Cool - ★★¼
Eddie Guerrero vs Dean Malenko vs Perry Saturn - ★★★
Shane McMahon vs Big Show - ★★¾
Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho - ★★★¾
Road Dogg & X-Pac vs The Dudleyz - ★★
The Rock vs Triple H - ★★★★¼

The two main title matches were great, rest of the show is harmless and ranges from mediocre to decent. American Badass Undertaker, though. :mark:


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Obviously I am a huge Roman Reigns mark, so I rewatched the Fastlane match again. I have to admit that the mark in me made the match out to be much better then it really was the first time I saw it. 

On my second watch Daniel Bryan pissed the hell out of me with selling. Gets slammed in the barricade, slammed in the side of the ring, then tossed into the barricade again and he is up 2 seconds later like nothing happened. 

Also, I really thought Bryan would do more in the match. You know its bad when Reigns actually does more wrestling moves then Bryan did. It was just 90 percent kicks from him. 

Another thing that could have been done better is more near falls. There were not any believable near falls in the match, and I dont think anybody thought there was any chance the first running knee was going to take Reigns out. Maybe Daniel should have kicked out of the first spear and get pinned by another one out of nowhere a few minutes later. 

Now the good points. Roman did fantastic I thought. His selling was spot on, and I loved his stiff blows he gave out to Bryan, and those screams of his just added even more. I also liked the fact that the match was 50/50 and nobody really dominated. Gives me hope for the Lesnar match at Wrestlemania 31.

Overall, my rating for the match is ***1/4 - ***1/2. A very solid match and the best match Reigns has had so far, but I really thought it could have reached the 4 star range with a more motivated Bryan.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Reigns disappoints me so much. He has been in matches with great workers, yet he has not been in a great singles match yet. The highest I have currently is *** 1/4 for Fast Lane. With that said, the main event of WMXXXI shouldn't be a DUD or anything, just not great.

Quick question for you guys: Which do you prefer, Austin v. Bret at Survivor Series 1996 or WrestleMania XIII? I used to like the SS match more, but WM 13 has really grown on me and is in my top three. Just wanted to see some other opinions.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I think I might like SS96 more, but WM is the better match. Been years since I watched WM13, though. I mean it's been around 2 1/2 since I watched SS96, but maybe like 5+ since I watched WM13. I think I enjoyed those types of brawls less back then than I do now, so I'm pretty interested to see where I'd fall on it in 2015 onward.



Choke2Death said:


> *Judgment Day 2000:*
> 
> Kurt Angle, Edge & Christian vs Too Cool - ★★★★★★★★★★★★¼


Watching SummerSlam 2010 right now. Had to pause to correct the obv misstype. 



Are you watching 2000 TV as well (or have you already seen it)? Have you seen Austin/Benoit 11/20?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hennessey said:


> Obviously I am a huge Roman Reigns mark, so I rewatched the Fastlane match again. I have to admit that the mark in me made the match out to be much better then it really was the first time I saw it.
> 
> On my second watch Daniel Bryan pissed the hell out of me with selling. Gets slammed in the barricade, slammed in the side of the ring, then tossed into the barricade again and he is up 2 seconds later like nothing happened.
> 
> ...


Yea, Bryan was the reason that match wasn't great, couldn't possibly be that Reigns wasnt giving him anything to work with :lmao Bryan was by no means good, for Bryan, but even mediocre Bryan like we saw at Fastlane is about 100 times better than Reigns right now. Reigns reminds me of a young Psycho Sid right now, only he doesn't look nearly as menacing and his promos aren't as believable. I used to be a Reigns defender when I thought of him as a potential main event prospect 2-3 years down the road. Having him forced into this spot when he's so obviously unqualified has made me judge him a lot more harshly. If he wants to be in the main event, he needs to be judged against the other main event talent. And right now, he isn't fit to lace Bryan, Cena, Rollins, Wyatt, Ambrose, Ziggler, Orton, Henry, or shit, really anyone who gets regular screen time on the main rosters boots, and half of NXT as well. It's an absolute disgrace what they are doing. Reeks of The Lex Express in 1994. Althought I think Lex was probably even better than Reigns is now. Lex at least had some classics with Flair.



Ad Infinitum said:


> Reigns disappoints me so much. He has been in matches with great workers, yet he has not been in a great singles match yet. The highest I have currently is *** 1/4 for Fast Lane. With that said, the main event of WMXXXI shouldn't be a DUD or anything, just not great.
> 
> Quick question for you guys: Which do you prefer, Austin v. Bret at Survivor Series 1996 or WrestleMania XIII? I used to like the SS match more, but WM 13 has really grown on me and is in my top three. Just wanted to see some other opinions.


The WM 13 match is tied with HBK/Taker HiaC as the #1 match in WWE history, for me. That said, there are definitely times when I prefer to watch the SVS match, when I'm in the mood for a slower building, more mat wrestling based match, SVS is the one I end up popping in. When I'm more in the mood for violence and seeing Austin's slow burn baby face turn, I go for the WM 13 match. I just love that part in the match at WM 13 when Austin starts firing up, shaking his head back and forth and talking all sorts of trash and JR yells "AND AUSTIN IS READY TO ROCK N ROLL!". That part, even more so than the iconic finish, is the part that sticks out most in my mind. It was the first time Austin showed real baby face fire and the fans were 100% into it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Watching SummerSlam 2010 right now. Had to pause to correct the obv misstype.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you watching 2000 TV as well (or have you already seen it)? Have you seen Austin/Benoit 11/20?


Yep, all of 2000. As you can tell, I've not reached that Austin/Benoit match since JD is in May. But I have seen it before if that's the match where Benoit stunners Austin and wears the black tights with yellow circles. It's been a few years but I remember enjoying it, even if it wasn't as great as the masterpieces from May 2001.

re: Bret vs Austin. I give WM13 the full five star rating while SVS is only a quarter or half star away from it. Both are excellent but I'll go with tradition and give WM the edge.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Reigns gave Bryan every reason to sell, tbh. I don't remember anything in the match Reigns did to bother me other than take two dives, continue standing and then catch Bryan on the third. At least he was holding his arm or whatever between dives. I've seen wayyyy inferior wrestlers to Bryan have wayyyy less to work with and pull off a wayyyy better match/performance. I thought Reigns was better in the match anyway but IDK.

Reigns was always my favourite Shield guy. I feel like I should watch (more of) his singles stuff just to see why everybody fell on him so hard. I don't remember anybody talking shit about him until the Shield ended. Is he THAT different a wrestler from 2013?


------
There's an Edge/Christian v. Taker/Rock match from 2000 that's really fun. And then the tag where Austin mudhole stomps Eddie for like a straight minute. :lmao And the HHH/Jericho that I thought was way better than the Dusty title change is in June. I should probably watch all of 2000 WWF one day. Still never watched the entirety of Backlash. I.....think.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Rumble triple threat is the MOTY imo


----------



## RATED R RULES (May 27, 2007)

Finally watched Fast Lane. I don't know if it was just the crowd or the action as well but the only word I can think of is FLAT. Nothing memorable match wise. A load of poor-average matches plus
Reigns/D Bry - ***


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I haven't seen a major WWE match get this much discussion from so many different people in quite a long time. I like it. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh lord, now people are gonna make a big stink if some say they feel Reigns was better than Danielson at Fast Lane. Sheesh. That whole bit about _"not being able to lace the boots of etc"_ is where it all becomes a running gag now. _(we're not far off from needing to ask the question if Reigns shat in someone's cereal to drive this home.)_

Favorite WWE match on the year so far is the Tag Team Turmoil match. Which was terrific. The awesome Reigns/Ambrose vs Rollins/Show tag from SD holds up strong too. The Danielson/Reigns/Ambrose vs Authority six man was good too, but mostly as a Danielson performance, really. Rather than it being a chance to see everyone cut loose & be better overall.

That Triple Threat from the Rumble is probably the worst match of 2015 world wide. In a nutshell it's what I hate about wrestling today.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Rumble triple threat was amazing, what's wrong with you.






fun, and was good to see taker tombstone cena


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Never enough booze in the world to say a Phoenix Splash makes a match.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Yeah1993 said:


> Is he THAT different a wrestler from 2013?


Yeah, he went from being a tag team wrestler to a singles wrestler.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> That Triple Threat from the Rumble is probably the worst match of 2015 world wide. In a nutshell it's what I hate about wrestling today.


Watch this opinion catch on in about seven years.

"RR'15 Triple threat is the worst match since Michaels/Angle~!" - this thread circa 2022


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> That Triple Threat from the Rumble is probably the worst match of 2015 world wide. In a nutshell it's what I hate about wrestling today.


To be fair, this did happen


----------



## Paul Rudd (Oct 23, 2010)

I thought that the RR triple threat was the most exciting match in years. I was jumping out of my chair for all the near falls and crazy spots. If you pick it apart and look at the selling and psychology it's not realistic by any means. However the atmosphere and excitement of the match is not something that can be created just by doing big stunts and false finishes. There was a 'big match feel' for this match, because of Brock and because of the unpredictable outcome; and they made sure to live up to the 'big match feel' by throwing everything out there. I thought it was a fantastic match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Never enough booze in the world to say a Phoenix Splash makes a match.


Pretty sure nobody thinks the Phoenix Splash is what made that match OMGMILLIONSTARZ worthy for myself, or even for spot marks. For me, it was the brilliant execution of the story: Lesnar's a beast, Cena and Rollins had to work to get rid of him, then they'd struggle off each other 'till Lesnar made his beastly return. The finishers and no-selling only half-bothered me, because I know just how vital they were to the story and making of a monster out of Bork. Plus, the match was just non-stop fun and I can't truly hate anything like that.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ruiner87 said:


> Watch this opinion catch on in about seven years.
> 
> "RR'15 Triple threat is the worst match since Michaels/Angle~!" - this thread circa 2022


I don't know which reference is more bleak: assuming one can have this much influence or feeling an opinion on disliking something should be regarded as a running joke in years to come.



Rah said:


> To be fair, this did happen


Like I'm gonna watch anything w/Canek. Especially in 2015. 8*D



ATF said:


> Pretty sure nobody thinks the Phoenix Splash is what made that match OMGMILLIONSTARZ worthy for myself, or even for spot marks. For me, it was the brilliant execution of the story: Lesnar's a beast, Cena and Rollins had to work to get rid of him, then they'd struggle off each other 'till Lesnar made his beastly return. The finishers and no-selling only half-bothered me, because I know just how vital they were to the story and making of a monster out of Bork. Plus, the match was just non-stop fun and I can't truly hate anything like that.


Facetious, chief. It's knowing where to strike for a gag. But the response and last sentence basically sums up something that's kind of odd to me: & that is targeting the fact that I'm supposed to like the match or something when I really, really disliked everything about it. Comes off like an issue when it's merely a case of seeing two different things, and no different than usual banter among the subjects.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

*SummerSlam June 42rd, 2010*

Never seen a single match from this show, I don’t think. 

This is a looooong one. I just had a bunch to say about a bunch of things on every match. Not necessarily regarding the match itself. I'll spoiler tag it. 



Spoiler: @@@@@@



Dolph Ziggler v. Kofi Kingston
Pretty dang good. Starts with Kofi jumping Dolph, probably trying to legitimately kill him because even by this point they probably would have had 1447 matches with each other and Kofi wanted to face somebody else. He gets Dolph outside and gets ready to dive on him and Vickie pulls Dolph out of the way making Kofi splat on the ground. Mid-air he resembled something to me but I can’t put my finger on what. If I’ve ever seen a flying squirrel with tape preventing it from gliding properly, then it might be that. In a couple cool moments of heels being heels, Dolph and Vickie scream at the ref to start counting and Ziggler pounces Kofi when Kofi gets back in. Rest of the match I don’t really have much of anything to say about. It was mildly enjoyable but I don’t really think they did anything spectacularly, or anything you haven’t seen before. I guess Kofi’s offense didn’t suck to me like it usually does (I actually remember it was cool how he was kicking Dolph while on the ground), and Ziggler ‘worked over’ Kofi in a more dominant way than he usually does. I am at a point where I don’t think Ziggler will ever truly win me over, but if this was the first Ziggler match I ever watched I would be interested to watch more. Nexus finish really wasn’t expected. Darren Young hits Kofi with one of the most shitty backyard finishers I think I’ve ever seen. I really liked Barrett’s promos back in 2010, but I remember them getting too similar to each other. NOT ADDING.
------------
Jericho and Edge try to get the Miz to join them as the 7th WWE Team member in the main event. I just don’t buy it. I don’t buy the Miz. As a serious anything. My mind just went to “The Opposite” episode of Seinfeld where at the end of it George is in a suit and acting like a corporate man, and it’s funny because that’s just not George. I will just never take the Miz seriously. And they make it worse by having these multi-time champions really trying to convince him to join, like the company will go down if the Miz isn’t involved. 
--------------
Alicia Fox v. Melina
Is this it? Is this the match that that random on Tough Enough said was her favourite match of all time? And Steve Austin was like “who?” and now it’s a decent-sized wrestling meme? When did Melina get booted from the company, anyway? Didn’t think she was still here in August 2010. She comes out wearing the most utterly ridiculous looking thing. Has this gigantic yellow fan thing on her head and equally ugly yellow shit everywhere, with tassel things hanging from her back-waist onto her arse. Looks like a bizarre anthropomorphic chicken hell beast. Is she cosplaying a Chocobo from Final Fantasy? Match started out pretty well but then got…weird. Melina jumped and landed on her previously-injured leg. And then absolutely nothing happened. Like she was like “I’m hurt” and the match kind of halted and then nothing cam of it. Fox targets the arm after that, so it might not’ve been a work when she hurt her leg, maybe? Melina wins pretty abruptly and then McCool & Layla come out with their back-handed compliments. While asking Melina for photos, Melina promptly starts to……….beat the shit out of them. I heard Ariana Grande’s kinda like that. Then they turn it around and when leaving the arena Layla starts to walk off with the wrong belt. This cannot be the favourite match of that random. If it is, she is even worse than previously thought. NOT ADDING.

The Big Show v. CM Punk/Luke Gallows/Joey Mercury
Three for three on a match that started out better than the rest of it. They did a usual “chief heel sends idiot minions to get wrecked”, and it was mostly fun. Didn’t sit well with me how easily Show got Gallows out of there, but Punk’s facial were kinda worth it. They spend some time trying to re-injure Show’s hand, and I wonder why it was even injured in the first place if it was basically announced as fully healed before the match. Were there any matches where he fought injured? Would have created a situation where he could have at least been restricted to not using the big punch with the predominant hand. Really terrible final moments of Punk elbowing the fuck out of Show’s hand, Show lifting Punk up in an almost nonchalant way, and proceeding to squash everybody sight like they’re jobbers. Punk skips town after that. NOT ADDING.
-----------------
“Oh God, what am I going to have to see Kane do?” << the exact under-my-breath question from me when seeing him caress a casket with the world title around his waist. I live in Skin Sear, Australia and had the probably 30-year-old air conditioner going, so I didn’t hear much of what he said. BUT, the under-my-breath question was answered in the best possible way when he said something about Rey Mysterio. Then Sheamus interrupts him and again I can’t really hear them but Sheamus goes “don’t get in my way.” Well, uh, you could have, you know, not come over here, then? Was there a WWE Title v. World Title match I’m not aware of or whatever? 

Wow, I thought the Miz thing was bad before. Turns out they have an entire segment dedicated to him coming out to the ring to announce whether he’ll do it or not. He goes on and on about Cena and the rest begging him. Well, at least it seems like they’re self-aware about Costanza being in the suit. The Miz eventually agrees to be on the team. This must just be Michael Cole heel turn fodder. b/c he’s more important than the Nexus and the safety of the WWE. There’s ten minutes I’ll never get back.
------------------
Sheamus v. Randy Orton 
You know when you’re dreading a match because you’ll think they just won’t do anything to spark you interest? Maybe you don’t think they’ll do anything bad or stupid (other than Orton’s fake psycho drivel), but there’re just better ways to spend your time? Yeah this was that. Only I actually thought it was all right. It’s the “I think two average wrestlers can have an above average match just by not sucking.” At the very least this had some sort of theme to it; Sheamus was the new quick riser and everybody pointed fingers that he was too scared to get into the ring with Orton. So Orton being on top is kind of what you want from that. Orton takes it to the outside for some god-forsaken reason and he looks like a total pinhead when only just realising that that won’t win him the title. Yadda yadda yadda Sheamus thinks he can’t win (after a clumsy as fuck RKO reversal that was not in fact a reversal at all) and grabs a chair. The ref tries to wrestle it away and takes the best bump of the entire match by somersaulting through the ropes and splatting on the ground. Actually there were a couple of neato step and barricade bumps in this. Orton got slammed hard against the barricade a couple times and if he hadn’t used the facial expression of an 8 year old pretending to die to a water gun, it would have been my favourite part of the match. Ref calls for DQ with Sheamus smiling about it. Sheamus prepping to hit Orton with the chair is obvious RKO counter time. Until Orton ducks the chair and kicks Sheamus in the balls instead. Well, all right! Then he takes it to one of my least favourite places in wrestling – the announce table. Only a few moves really look kind of dangerous on an announce table. Spinebuster? Yeah. Suplex? Yeah. Powerbomb? Yeah. Even something like a pedigree. RKO on the announce table just does not look like it hurt Sheamus more (than in the ring) at all. So yeah this wasn’t good but it didn’t suck either. I don’t think an absence of good defines bad, nor do I think an absence of bad defines good. Jerry Lawler on the other hand literally said “you’ll never see a better match.” This is coming from the man who wrestled arguably the greatest match I’ve ever seen literally with one eye covered. NOT ADDING.
---------
Commercial for the Marine 4 or something. Cena’s in it. Looks like he’s coaching Harry Potter in wrestling.
-------------
Kane v. Rey Mysterio
Judging by the video package, the Who Attacked Undertaker vegetable story (trademark Vegetable Story) was even stupider than remembered. I remember it bringing some comedy with photoshopped pictures of broccoli over Taker’s face, though. So, Kane kinda sucks. When he doesn’t kinda suck, he’s still not good at being a monster. Or even a very large wrestler. I’d hate to bring Mark Henry into every possible conversation, but every move Henry does feels like it means something. If he catches you you are totally fucked. There are exceptions like when he’s low on the card, but I at least still feel like he tries to look like a fairytale giant. I just don’t get that from Kane. Rey did that avoidy thing he does with bigger guys to start the match and when Kane catches him…nothing. He just punches him a bit and I’m like “he’s how tall?” Rey even sells it the Rey Versus Monster way, but it felt like he was still wrestling CM Punk. And it was so oddly out of place to see Kane do a baseball slide dropkick when Rey was next to the ring post (and other spots like that I can’t be assed bringing up). Kane at least wobbled when Rey was trying to knock him over. So that was really cool. And he did feel genuinely big when cutting Rey’s comeback off. Good ass clothesline. I don’t want to give off the impression I didn’t like this; it was all right. I just think Kane looks way smaller than he is and that’s probably one of the reasons I think he’s better off as a babyface. Though, still not a fan. NOT ADDING.

John Cena/Edge/Chris Jericho/Bret Hart/John Morrison/R-Truth/Daniel Bryan v. The Nexus
I’m not calling them Team WWE. That’s too “hashtag era” for me. The Nexus was such a cool damn idea that was made even cooler by the fact that they were a bunch of randoms. I remember listening to a Segunda Caida podcast a few years back and one the guys on the podcast mentioned that the day the Nexus tore up the ring and beat everybody up, he got a text. The text said something like “a bunch of hillbillies and black guys came to the ring on Raw and killed everything.” Nobody watched fucking NXT. Nobody knew who the hell these guys were, so you had people in the audience probably wondering what was even going on. Can only imagine the kind of moment it would have been in front a kayfabe-true 80s crowd or something? Kind of takes you out of it just that little bit when people are taking photos. But yeah, it was like a real invasion in a way. They were the anti-WWE group.

Too bad instead of meaning anything they just became Cena feed. They were just another piece of pez to go into the John Cena dispenser for Vince to eat. Then the Cena dispenser ran out of pez so it just got new pez stacked into it and eventually eaten. So the old pez faded away in history. Bryan was the only guy in the Nexus that I actually cared about (and duh he wasn’t in it any more), so don’t get me wrong – I had no personal desire to have seen any of these individual wrestlers get pushed. It’s just the Nexus idea itself that feels so goddamn wasted. More so than your usual Cena pez. This was a new, colourful flavour of pez, even after they ditched Danielson. I guess they had to get rid of him because at least 30 people knew who he was. That’s the cut off point. On a Dragon note (trademark ”Dragon Note”) Danielson had a pretty lackluster ‘return’. I know it wasn’t a real REAL return and he was a nobody with jobber music, but Cena was like ‘it’s Daniel Bryan’ and that was it. He just felt like another excuse why you should hate the Miz. Not fond of the rest of the #WWE team. R-Truth? Stop trying to get him over. Why not Christian?? WHERE IS HE??? At least the team had “tension” before finally agreeing on the final goal. 

The match – it rocked. Mostly. Like every match on this show, it peaked early. But it hit a much, much higher peak than the rest of the show. The Nexus were an unstoppable batch of dickheads, so you might think I’d want them to be in control to begin with. You forget it’s wrestling, JACKASS. Where the “beginning” is everything they’ve done leading up to the match and this match is the last of it. Essentially, they’re the androids in Trunks’ timeline, and have been destroying everything in sight for months, and the other 7 are Trunks after he’s helped kill Cell in the past. This is that time. The Nexus saw none of this coming and from pretty much the get-go become two men down. I take back what I said about Bryan getting a bad return because it was perfect having him wipe out Darren Young the way he did. And I didn’t think Young looked like a jobber. The Nexus lose Tarver which I think sucks because just looking at him, he looks like a badass demon, but I didn’t think he looked like a jobber either. This being a match with 14 people, poppydick R-Truth offense kind of comes off as more in-place and impressive knowing you won’t have to see it for more than a couple minutes. Same with Morrison, and basically everybody else who has a spot I don’t care for. Well, I thought Edge’s stuff still looked pretty shitty. Hahahahahahaha NICE SPINKICK OODGE.

The Nexus out-of-ring talk with everybody yelling was great. Again, they didn’t see this shit coming, so they’re all stressing out. I remember when this first happened forums were going “I CAN FIX THIS” everywhere, but my favourite part of it was whoever was trying to get everyone to calm down (by yelling “clam down”). I liked Ryskip in this quite a bit. Wasn’t fond of him just using suplex after suplex when it seemed like he had nothing to do, but his selling was good and he’s totally the guy you buy as the Nexus’ equaliser when they need one. Hart getting DQed with the chair was an odd decision but the Nexus did try to run him over or something. I’d be a little tempted too. Plus it was part1 in a 3-part set of parts to get Skip out of the match. Otunga was the least useful guy in the match. I only mention him because I think he was eliminated next (jogging the memory). Well he fucking went a little out-there on a DDT. It was like “ok, no more career now, Geronimo.” Not even a swing or spike or anything. It just came off like he was aiming to paralyse himself by jumping at just the wrong angle without standing on his feet. Edge and Jericho…I…don’t know whether I liked their elims or not. I didn’t, really. Yeah there was “team tension” and blah blah but that just takes focus off of the Nexus to me. Let the tension die during the build up. Edge and Jericho getting eliminated by Slater rolling them after some Cena shit and then blaming/beating up Cena was like…fuck…y’know? And for God’s sake – Having Cena play FIP because his OWN teammates beat him up does NOT make the Nexus looks strong. They’re heels and they cheat a good few times in this match but they’re supposed to look overall DOMINANT.

Didn’t find Cena very engaging in the match. The Edge/Jericho stuff was where the match actually fell sort of out of favour with me, but Cena did that “I pop up now” thing. At least he was trying to tag Bryan in so the “pop ups” where usually with his hand out to get out of the match for a bit. Bryan’s actual hot tag was great. House o’ fire and no wasted movement because he’s already decided on his WWE signature spots. Slater sold like the Rock for most of it which put it over the top. And then the Miz…god…ahhh. Fuck, I didn’t like that. By the time this had happened it felt like the Nexus were only responsible for having eliminated 3 people. Whatever. Cena wins, which is a duh. Still, could it NOT have been RIGHT after a DDT on concrete? And Gabriel was decently unharmed, right? Is a missed 450 really a pin-worthy thing? 

Honestly I think this is the kind of match that - if it was booked in the best possible way - I could have put at #1. It isn’t even near that because it felt a little like that kin of “standard” John Cena match by the end, and again odd decisions prevent it from getting too high. Still it was mostly pretty exciting. Going on the list. Great, now I have to look up the actual date of the PPV. ADDING.
--------------
Overall thoughts: Best show so far. Only one added match but no actual truly bad matches (for the first time, I think) and/or matches that I would rather die than see again. Missing most of my 2010 favourite wrestlers but that's what TV's for. Next show is NOC I think which has a guaranteed added match. I'll probably keep the Network through March. First time WWE are getting my money since like 2010 or something.




Current list:



Spoiler: WHATTUP?



1.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (SmackDown 2/12/10)
2.	John Cena v. Batista (Extreme Rules 4/25/10)
3.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Over the Limit 5/23/10)
4.	Jack Swagger v. Rey Mysterio (SmackDown 6/11/10)
5.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/16/10)
6.	Rey Mysterio v. Jack Swagger (Money in the Bank 7/18/10)
7.	Christian v. Ezekiel Jackson (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
8.	Christian/Kane v. William Regal/Ezekiel Jackson (ECW 1/26/10)
9.	John Cena/Edge/Chris Jericho/Bret Hart/John Morrison/R-Truth/Daniel Bryan v. The Nexus (SummerSlam 8/15/10)
10.	Shawn Michaels v. The Undertaker (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
11.	William Regal v. Evan Bourne (SuperStars 3/4/10)
12.	Chris Jericho v. Evan Bourne (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
13.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Extreme Rules 4/29/10)
14.	The Undertaker v. Rey Mysterio (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
15.	Drew McIntyre v. Kaval (SmackDown 9/10/10)
16.	Kofi Kingston v. Drew McIntyre (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
17.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
18.	d
19.	d
20.	d
21.	d
22.	d
23.	d
24.	d
25.	d


Other contenders:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DBZ & Seinfeld references make that show sound better. But this one was the best:

_"While asking Melina for photos, Melina promptly starts to……….beat the shit out of them. I heard Ariana Grande’s kinda like that."_

Never change, Jheri.

Shame the main went the way it did in the end. I believe it was dubbed that way via "time issues" but the whole Cena win thing was plenty atypical that idk what to even believe. Him winning is fine for the story, but the way it was done was so flat. Especially for such a generally hot match/angle. Basically I like that match just b/c of the angle & Danielson. Ryback's dominating portion was cool too. It could have been SO much stronger had it worked on a few aspects. Does that kind of twist the knife? Yeah. I suppose I can't complain considering the bulk I still can live w/. I still like Kane vs Mysterio. And actually love the way the opener ends. I thought using that match to be tossed out to build on the heat of Nexus was a really clever move. One of those riding the wave of something that is working ideas. Of course it would fall off substantially following this night, but it was fun while it lasted.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'd believe the time issue. It was a very Cena victory but he didn't do alllll of the Cena things he normally gets to do. Makes more sense to me - that Gabriel got pinned after practically nothing and Barrett only stopped on Cena twice before tapping directly after that - because they were running out of time. Then again this is the McMahon Inc. 18 seconds at WrestleMania 28. 

I know it's hugely unrealistic, but Cena being eliminated from the match legit would have made it better. I mean unrealistic back then because it was a pre-'pipebomb' time (Ziggler being the sole survivor last year, etc). Asking too much that Danielson be the sole survivor, but that would've been the most selfishly best way to end the match. But even Danielson + Cena would have been better. If you're going to have somebody else be responsible for Dragon getting eliminated anyway why not just let him stay in, WWE? He looked strong and it gives him a title feud so I suppose I can't complain. 


I feel like I should ask people to list random pop culture references and task my self to add them convincingly into the next PPV writemobile, just to see if I can do it. 

WAIT



Yeah1993 said:


> I'm going to use a nonsensical scale for every PPV I watch from now on. First up I will grade matches based on usefulness as a utensil for cooking scrambled eggs.


Just remembered I made this post a while back. Close enough. I'm using the eggs scale for Night of Champions.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao at Melina looking like a Chocobo.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i'm watching something at random

judgment day 2003

the card:

1) Opening Contest- John Cena and the F.B.I. (Chuck Palumbo and Johnny Stamboli) (With Nunzio) vs Chris Benoit, Rhyno and Spanky in a 6 man tag team match

2) La Resistance (Sylvain Grenier and Rene Dupree) vs Scott Steiner and Test (With Stacy Keibler)

3) Team Angle (Shelton Benjamin and Charlie Haas) (c) vs Eddie Guerrero and Tajiri in a Tag Team Ladder Match for the WWE Tag Team Championship

4) Christian vs Booker T vs Test vs Goldust vs Kane vs RVD vs Chris Jericho vs Val Venis vs Lance Storm in a Battle Royal for the Vacant WWE Intercontinental Championship

5) Mr. America (With Zach Gowen) vs Roddy Piper (With Sean O’Haire)

6) Triple H (c) (With Ric Flair) vs Kevin Nash (With Shawn Michaels) for the World Heavyweight Championship

Jazz (c) (With Theodore Long) vs Trish Stratus vs Victoria (With Steven Richards) vs Jacqueline in a fatal four-way match for the WWE Women`s Championship

8 ) Main Event- Brock Lesnar (c) vs The Big Show in a Stretcher Match for the WWE Championship


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yay at Yeah liking the Main Event. I hated how the ending was booked (DDT on the concrete followed by pinning Gabriel after a missed 450 and then beating Barrett almost immediately afterwards was only 2nd to the Over The Limit 2011 travesty as the worst Super Cena example ever), and how Team That Proved Cena Doesn't Have The Best Finger For Choosing Partners (crippled Bret, R-Truth, and, originally, Mr. yes-he-was-a-big-guy-but-almost-immobile-couldn't-he-have-picked-Big-Show-instead Khali? Really?) had to go over, but the match itself I felt worked in almost every level. The Edge/Jericho stuff didn't really bother me as it further added to the drama to the whole thing.

NOC 2010 will be more than worth your time, Yeah. It's not just MOZ/Danielson that rules in that show. Kane/Taker is awesome, I enjoyed the Main Event, Punk/Show was fun, I even thought Ziggler/Kofi was alright too.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Oh lord, now people are gonna make a big stink if some say they feel Reigns was better than Danielson at Fast Lane. Sheesh. That whole bit about _"not being able to lace the boots of etc"_ is where it all becomes a running gag now. _(we're not far off from needing to ask the question if Reigns shat in someone's cereal to drive this home.)_
> 
> Favorite WWE match on the year so far is the Tag Team Turmoil match. Which was terrific. The awesome Reigns/Ambrose vs Rollins/Show tag from SD holds up strong too. The Danielson/Reigns/Ambrose vs Authority six man was good too, but mostly as a Danielson performance, really. Rather than it being a chance to see everyone cut loose & be better overall.
> 
> That Triple Threat from the Rumble is probably the worst match of 2015 world wide. In a nutshell it's what I hate about wrestling today.


I don't see anyone making a big stink about anything. But saying Reigns was better than Bryan at Fastlane, when Bryan was literally leading him around step by step through the match, seems silly. You can say you enjoyed Reigns more in that match, no problem with that I said myself that Bryan was only at his C game at best, but Reigns can't be better in a match that's being 100% controlled by Bryan. Reigns looked impressive because Bryan made him look impressive, and the match was booked to make Reigns impressive, and Reigns worked as hard as he could to come off as impressive. Bryan just didn't seem right to me, I didn't see the same fire and aggression I've become accustomed to in his baby face work, maybe that was by design but probably not. Either way, Bryan put Reigns over as well as he possibly could and just because it the goal of the match wasn't to make Bryan shine doesn't all of the sudden mean Reigns out worked or out preformed him, atleast in my view.

And I stand by my statement. You might not like my wording of "not fit to lace his boots", but the fact is there are so many guys on the roster right now who are head and shoulders above Reigns as pro wrestlers, from both an in ring stand point, character stand point, and connecting with the crowd stand point. If Reigns was more popular than all of them you wouldn't hear a peep out of me, because I know at the end of the day the top guys are the ones who make the most money for the WWE. But as of right now, Roman isn't more popular than them, which just leaves me frustrated they couldn't have waited with him another year or two for him to really become a polished pro. Think Cena in 2003-2004 getting to work with Eddie, Angle, Show, Taker, etc and really getting that huge groundswell of support. Why not go that route? When Reigns isn't working with a world class ring general like Bryan it's going to make the main event matches for the next few post mania months awfully dull.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

In case this falls off the front page, here's an excellent article by Meltzer, regarding what's happening with Reigns & Bryan:
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...ns-fans-compares-wwe-dying-wcw-long-read.html

Includes a lot of historical analysis and analogies in this.


What are peoples' thoughts on Samoa Joe vs. Kurt Angle Part 1, and Batista vs. Undertaker HIAC?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I remember liking Samoa Joe vs. Kurt Angle Pt. I, but the booking was really dumb for that match and it kinda was the beginning of the massive fall that TNA experienced. The match gets praised as one of TNA's finest matches, but I wouldn't go that far. Probably not even four stars. But a rather good match.

Batista/Undertaker inside HIAC also was really good, but it went on a bit too long. I liked the ending to the match a lot, but there's a lot of stuff in the middle that I don't really remember. Probably the weakest of their four PPV matches in 2007, but it still is worth watching. Maybe if Cal actually did his reviews in a punctual manner, we would get more insight on this match :side:


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Man, Big Dave is totally on point with that article. Reading the whole thing just made me depressed, because it made me remember how bright the future was looking after WrestleMania 30.

As for Batista/Taker HIAC, I have to agree with funnyfaces and say that it's the weakest match in their 2007 series. That's not to say that it's bad, obviously. I think I have it at around ***3/4, but the other matches are just better. Backlash LMS is probably my favourite at ****1/4. Consistently great matches from those two guys.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

what did people think about show/lesnar stretcher match from judgment day 2003?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I don't see anyone making a big stink about anything. But saying Reigns was better than Bryan at Fastlane, when Bryan was literally leading him around step by step through the match, seems silly. You can say you enjoyed Reigns more in that match, no problem with that I said myself that Bryan was only at his C game at best, but Reigns can't be better in a match that's being 100% controlled by Bryan. Reigns looked impressive because Bryan made him look impressive, and the match was booked to make Reigns impressive, and Reigns worked as hard as he could to come off as impressive. Bryan just didn't seem right to me, I didn't see the same fire and aggression I've become accustomed to in his baby face work, maybe that was by design but probably not. Either way, Bryan put Reigns over as well as he possibly could and just because it the goal of the match wasn't to make Bryan shine doesn't all of the sudden mean Reigns out worked or out preformed him, atleast in my view.
> 
> And I stand by my statement. You might not like my wording of "not fit to lace his boots", but the fact is there are so many guys on the roster right now who are head and shoulders above Reigns as pro wrestlers, from both an in ring stand point, character stand point, and connecting with the crowd stand point. If Reigns was more popular than all of them you wouldn't hear a peep out of me, because I know at the end of the day the top guys are the ones who make the most money for the WWE. But as of right now, Roman isn't more popular than them, which just leaves me frustrated they couldn't have waited with him another year or two for him to really become a polished pro. Think Cena in 2003-2004 getting to work with Eddie, Angle, Show, Taker, etc and really getting that huge groundswell of support. Why not go that route? When Reigns isn't working with a world class ring general like Bryan it's going to make the main event matches for the next few post mania months awfully dull.


Danielson wasn't leading him towards anything. I don't see how acknowledging Danielson as being off, yet still doing a carryjob can even be possible. Sure the format of the match aids Reigns, but duh, that type of format will help anyone. And that's the point. Reigns could have had the match mapped out for him and still gave a complete stinker of a performance. The whole point I'm emphasizing here is having to mention/target others for having a different opinion/viewpoint on someone who isn't Bryan Danielson in the match b/c you find that to be so egregious. b/c that's clearly all that stuck out. Roman Reigns could be better than him on one night. Not impossible. Especially when the heart of the known "superior" talent isn't in it, and the up and coming guy w/something to prove is working hard to make sure he doesn't fall behind at any capacity.

There is no fact about nothing. That's such a broad statement that if you poll "x" amount of people, you're going to get different responses. Heck, start w/Bray Wyatt. Go around asking "who is the better wrestler: Reigns or Wyatt?" And that is one, whew, that I'm certain we'll get a multitude of colorful responses. Besides, trying to acknowledge who is a better "wrestler" is beyond the realms of anything one person can say is true, and others have to follow/agree w/.

Why aren't they taking a year off? We've all spun this story around a billion and one times. Different era is the only answer we can conjure up & it's true. They do things differently now. Hot shotting is all over the place. Time will benefit anybody. Reigns isn't an exception or special to the rule, more time = more growth. Period. Now again, resentment is a key to all of this. That's fine, I guess. I can understand "not being a fan". But that's so much clear on the other side of the fence rather than putting down other aspects about the person in question, that they shouldn't even be put up next to each other.



King Kenny said:


> what did people think about show/lesnar stretcher match from judgment day 2003?


Terrific. Like, really, really super great. Brock w/that damn forklift spot is the kind of shit that makes wrestling AWESOME.

---------

I'm really in the mood for random tag matches. Thinking mostly from Smackdown, MNM stuff for example, but I could always do w/checking out some Evolution tags. I thought about watching everything w/The Shield, but I'd have to seek out some of the stuff they did on Main Event and I'd rather be a completest on the project.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

How long did Eddie Guerrero & Tajiri last as a tag team? Memory and Google only ever bring up the Team Angle match/matches. I bet there's a TV match worth your time if you're willing to focus your efforts on them. Smackdown + Tajiri + Eddie cannot equal anything but good.


Reigns vs Wyatt? That's a hard one. Obviously Reigns is the better tag wrestler and emoter but after that it gets a bit too close. Reigns may have been fed some bad lines in the recent past, but when he's given a mic he cuts a simple yet effective promo. It's not grand, and he isn't a good orator, but it fits its purpose. That's where Wyatt fails. Bray's this self-aggrandised speaker, filled with a lexicon of great lines, yet he can never find direction in his messages. It all became far too obvious in his feud against Jericho, that Wyatt was all words and nothing more when his narrative flip-flopped week to week. It's all well to set yourself apart as this intellectualised cult-leader, but when you lose the purpose of your message (nor never even had one to begin with) you have lost the motivation for your character and, thus, the hook to bait your audience. All too often Wyatt comes across as a geek that's too engrossed within his own lines (as he does write his own promos) and has too much of a need to feed into this notion that the superficial matters more than the message behind the words. Again, Reigns does benefit most when he's not cutting a lengthy promo and is using his body language or physical nature to convey his message, but you still need a presence to accurately capture that moment's mood. There's an indy guy I want to point to, who continually smiles and puts next to no effort into convinging us that he holds some form of ill-will toward his opponent. Might not even be an Indy guy, but the name will come to me.

Neither can work a great match on the fly (no qualms there for me, though), but I may need more depth to Reigns singles work to make an accurate judgment. Let's not forget there has been a lot of bad Wyatt performances, too. On a positive side, both can have some real meat behind their punches or forearms and can excel in the right environ. As said, this is a difficult decision but I guess I'd take Reigns and that's more to do with his qualities in the third sentence. Reigns has the brighter future, though I do acknowledge Wyatt progressing a lot more rapidly than I had given him credit for before, but Reigns' character work in the Wyatt/Shield ER match (amongst a few other moments) is far and away superior to anything Wyatt has done across his entire career. If it had to come down to it, peak vs peak, Reigns has it.

I bet I'm more alone, and HayleySabin's conjecture isn't quite as diverse as he may think. It's him and myself and no one else from this thread is quite jumping out on this side of the fence. I guess we're contrarian like that.


_____

On different news, I talked up a Cesaro/Ziggler house show match from Italy back in May, last year. Someone's clipped it from the 2 hour video I originally watched, and uploaded it almost in full. If anyone cares, Cesaro's work on the European tour was a good part of where I hung my argument for him as worker of the year for the first six months.







Throwing this in so I don't forget it exists. Matt/Henry going 15 minutes. I need to watch it at some point


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Danielson wasn't leading him towards anything. I don't see how acknowledging Danielson as being off, yet still doing a carryjob can even be possible. Sure the format of the match aids Reigns, but duh, that type of format will help anyone. And that's the point. Reigns could have had the match mapped out for him and still gave a complete stinker of a performance. The whole point I'm emphasizing here is having to mention/target others for having a different opinion/viewpoint on someone who isn't Bryan Danielson in the match b/c you find that to be so egregious. b/c that's clearly all that stuck out. Roman Reigns could be better than him on one night. Not impossible. Especially when the heart of the known "superior" talent isn't in it, and the up and coming guy w/something to prove is working hard to make sure he doesn't fall behind at any capacity.
> 
> There is no fact about nothing. That's such a broad statement that if you poll "x" amount of people, you're going to get different responses. Heck, start w/Bray Wyatt. Go around asking "who is the better wrestler: Reigns or Wyatt?" And that is one, whew, that I'm certain we'll get a multitude of colorful responses. Besides, trying to acknowledge who is a better "wrestler" is beyond the realms of anything one person can say is true, and others have to follow/agree w/.
> 
> ...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> How long did Eddie Guerrero & Tajiri last as a tag team? Memory and Google only ever bring up the Team Angle match/matches. I bet there's a TV match worth your time if you're willing to focus your efforts on them. Smackdown + Tajiri + Eddie cannot equal anything but good.


Eddie & Tajiri

So the bulk of their work together was strictly only vs Haas & Benjamin. I don't find that a problem as I've spooled through two of the four not that long ago, and they were legit tremendous outings. Eddie & Tajiri says it all, but Team Angle were p. damn great during - at least - the first half they were on TV. 



Rah said:


> Reigns vs Wyatt? That's a hard one. Obviously Reigns is the better tag wrestler and emoter but after that it gets a bit too close. Reigns may have been fed some bad lines in the recent past, but when he's given a mic he cuts a simple yet effective promo. It's not grand, and he isn't a good orator, but it fits its purpose. That's where Wyatt fails. Bray's this self-aggrandised speaker, filled with a lexicon of great lines, yet he can never find direction in his messages. It all became far too obvious in his feud against Jericho, that Wyatt was all words and nothing more when his narrative flip-flopped week to week. It's all well to set yourself apart as this intellectualised cult-leader, but when you lose the purpose of your message (nor never even had one to begin with) you have lost the motivation for your character and, thus, the hook to bait your audience. All too often Wyatt comes across as a geek that's too engrossed within his own lines (as he does write his own promos) and has too much of a need to feed into this notion that the superficial matters more than the message behind the words. Again, Reigns does benefit most when he's not cutting a lengthy promo and is using his body language or physical nature to convey his message, but you still need a presence to accurately capture that moment's mood. There's an indy guy I want to point to, who continually smiles and puts next to no effort into convinging us that he holds some form of ill-will toward his opponent. Might not even be an Indy guy, but the name will come to me.
> 
> Neither can work a great match on the fly (no qualms there for me, though), but I may need more depth to Reigns singles work to make an accurate judgment. Let's not forget there has been a lot of bad Wyatt performances, too. On a positive side, both can have some real meat behind their punches or forearms and can excel in the right environ. As said, this is a difficult decision but I guess I'd take Reigns and that's more to do with his qualities in the third sentence. Reigns has the brighter future, though I do acknowledge Wyatt progressing a lot more rapidly than I had given him credit for before, but Reigns' character work in the Wyatt/Shield ER match (amongst a few other moments) is far and away superior to anything Wyatt has done across his entire career. If it had to come down to it, peak vs peak, Reigns has it.
> 
> I bet I'm more alone, and HayleySabin's conjecture isn't quite as diverse as he may think. It's him and myself and no one else from this thread is quite jumping out on this side of the fence. I guess we're contrarian like that.


Oh yeah. I probably should have specified better, but in no way am I remotely trying to contend that my frame of loose reference on Reigns is diverse or _not_ pulling as a strong minority opinion. That's firmly established. Interesting to get a response on the most random hypothetical I spawned off the top of my head. It was largely bullspitting just for a point, but I'm not one to negate a reply. Watch the poll take place now b/c you've set the tone.

----------

Good stuff there, Kenny. I checked out the DX/Hardys vs Rated RKO/MNM tag some time late last year and it was fun times. Did a ramble on it too iirc: (this took me forever and a day to friggin find right now)

Jeff Hardy, Matt Hardy, Shawn Michaels, & Triple H vs Edge, Randy Orton, Johnny Nitro, & Joey Mercury - _WWE: RAW 12/4/06_



Spoiler: ramblin' rhodes



Had a mess of fun w/this. It was long enough to have a proper shine & FIP to give it depth & short enough to make sure Trips or Shawn didn't do much to bring it down. Jeff was targeted as the FIP, which already proved these guys had brains and wanted to make a match where you would DIE to see the hot tag. I may be overstating that point a bit b/c it wasn't like this was "great", but a total blast in making a RAW main event feel like something you'd tell your friends about the next day. Plus, you wanted to see Rated RKO get owned for killing Flair the week prior. JR was selling this like he was in dingy arena in North Carolina (that's where the RAW was) & it was 1988. The time when big tags like this would be the selling point. The way Jeff takes a counter dropkick from Nitro is absurd, but so cool. Dude eats the boots and catapults backwards. Almost killed himself w/a Whisper in the Wind. That's never good. Seeing this really made me miss Rated RKO. Despite having to feud w/DX, I really was into their unit. Making two lone characters mesh into a tag team that wanted to be a tag team was just kind of rad all in its simplicity. It wasn't like they would be around for a week or a month and that's it. It managed to be a unit where it stuck until the expected collapse after their story arc had finished. Orton needed it to survive. He was running on fumes w/his career once he came back from suspension. Dude was still so strong around this point that it was essential not to let him waste away on Carlito or Kurt Angle after starting the year w/fabulous outings vs Benoit & Mysterio (now do you see how big of a drop off in quality that was?) Also made me miss MNM b/c damn were they great. idk if those dudes ever had a bad match unless their opponents were incredibly limited. There wasn't much of a hot tag in this for when it was made, but the finish did stem w/lots of heat so it all ended up working out. Kenny from the Spirit Squad actually got to take out Shawn Michaels and convincingly brawl w/Triple H. It felt like he might have mattered. Matt got the hot tag btw. So while very brief, it consisted of Matt Hardy punches & not any from the older goons. My favorite part of this was probably the fact that it felt like Shawn did zero. I like that. Even if it was a tag. I'm really over that dude. A good time all around. WWE needs to do another one of these on TV. Kind of ironic I'm saying that w/Survivor Series around the corner & the only match they are building IS a big ten man tag. That's elimination and will be riddled w/shenanigans no doubt, so it isn't the same. I'm thinking 12 man tag from RAW circa 2011 type good shit. Omg I love that match. Idk what's next, so perhaps that. Or something else w/Evan Bourne. I'm all over the place. 

This match was nice.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I'm reliving past times. Watching the fued/match with Eddie Guerrero/Batista. I was and still am a big fan of it. 

He should've won at No Mercy


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

King Kenny said:


> what did people think about show/lesnar stretcher match from judgment day 2003?


Fuckin MASSterpiece.



Hayley Seydoux said:


> I'm really in the mood for random tag matches. Thinking mostly from Smackdown, MNM stuff for example, but I could always do w/checking out some Evolution tags. I thought about watching everything w/The Shield, but I'd have to seek out some of the stuff they did on Main Event and I'd rather be a completest on the project.


MNM are kind of overlooked in 2006, I think. They had one tag that really stood out to me but being a complete asshole I've forgotten what it was. Looking up SD results it was probably v. the Mexicools from Feb 3rd. The MNM/Henry v. Angle/Taker 2/17 handicap is really fun. 

JBL/Finlay/Orton v. Benoit/Rey/Lashley 2/24/06. Everybody should know about that amazing tag but I always seem to forget it exists. Only remembered it now to look up the date for the MNM tags above.

When was the last time you watched the opener for BATB 97? Making that a semi-popular match is the best thing Seabs ever did. I remember when we first brought talk about it over here people legitimately thought we were fucking around and trying to create a meme. 

Have you seen Henry/Knox v. Hardy/Finlay 9/9/08? Sounds amazing and supposedly gets good time. Fuck it, I might watch it right now.



Rah said:


> Throwing this in so I don't forget it exists. Matt/Henry going 15 minutes. I need to watch it at some point


I found this in 2013. It didn't disappoint.



Spoiler: iugfdcvb






> Mark Henry v. Matt Hardy (Innsbruck, Austria 9/26/08)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-mCy7P7D6M
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOAghehflh8
> No DQ. I had no choice but to have unnatural expectations for his and YES it totally met them. Hardy starts by playing off of the reception he’s getting, raising and lowering his arms to dictate the level of noise the crowd make, etc. Henry covers his ears and kicks the ropes all Eddie Guerrero style, and then later mocks Hardy, raising and lowering his arms (right before stepping on Hardy’s cheek). There was an awesome near fall where Henry kicks out by throwing Hardy off of him, and the ref had to run out of the ring to not be squished by a flying Hardy. Henry taking it to the outside and using the guardrail (plus hitting his remarkably great clubs) was really cool and Hardy is naturally willing to bump nicely for him. The ref nearly gets hit again, when Henry throws the steps into the ring and he has to back up all ‘hey, HEY, look out, HEY!’ I loved how Henry didn’t leave his feet unless Hardy used his own momentum against him – slipping from the ring post shot, and dodging the ‘I’mma sit my PHATASS on your face’. Hardy tries to capitalise on the ring post spot with a trash can, but winds up getting levelled. After ‘I’mma sit my PHATASS on your face’, Atlas gives Henry a chair which leads to an awesome spot where Hardy dodges, and Henry sends the chair into the ropes and back into his own face. Henry going down after a single ladder shot may have bee a little anti-climatic, but I didn’t totally expect him to kick out of the ladder elbow, so that kind of made up for it. Atlas comes in to help, which sets up Henry getting a completely credible near fall off of nothing more than a fist to the face. Beautiful. Finish run was really well done. Not sure this is as good as their best match together, but ‘not sure’ is he key word. This is still one of the better WWE matches I’ve seen from 2008. Other than Finlay, was there anybody in the WWE better than these two that year?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I'm watching WWE RAW Tribute to Eddie. 

the feels


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Eddie Guerrero vs Test (Wrestlemania 17)*

x2i30zb

_'Live PPV Version'_

Not sure if the 'Test's legs gets caught up in the ropes forever' bit is in the DVD Version, i forgot, but someone bought it up, so i posted the live version.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Reigns and Bray is quite easy for me. Reigns is a superior tag worker, that's an easy picking, and he may have superior strikes. But Bray's strikes are pretty rough (positive kind of rough) too, and his character work, charisma and greater aura surrounding him makes him a much more interesting personality than Reigns. Plus, while Reigns does have some terrific tag performances under his belt (like bouts w/the Usos, the first 11 on 3 match, the Rhodes Bros stuff, and of course, his GOAT performance vs Wyatts at EC last year), Bray is far more consistent, has a much, much, MUCH higher singles peak, and his best performance (vs Cena at WM 30) is equal or better than Reigns at EC 2014 imo (who wasn't even the MVP of the match to begin with, that would be Rollins). 

To each his own, obviously, but regardless of his booking being dumped over, and his promos and might losing the purpose they once had, I still take Bray over Reigns any day. And again, I don't LOATHE Reigns. I don't even truly dislike him. He does what he does fine. But what he does on its own is not at all that interesting for me. At least for a singles wrestler that is supposed to be a top star/Main Eventer.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Danielson wasn't leading him towards anything. I don't see how acknowledging Danielson as being off, yet still doing a carryjob can even be possible. Sure the format of the match aids Reigns, but duh, that type of format will help anyone. And that's the point. Reigns could have had the match mapped out for him and still gave a complete stinker of a performance. The whole point I'm emphasizing here is having to mention/target others for having a different opinion/viewpoint on someone who isn't Bryan Danielson in the match b/c you find that to be so egregious. b/c that's clearly all that stuck out. Roman Reigns could be better than him on one night. Not impossible. Especially when the heart of the known "superior" talent isn't in it, and the up and coming guy w/something to prove is working hard to make sure he doesn't fall behind at any capacity.
> 
> There is no fact about nothing. That's such a broad statement that if you poll "x" amount of people, you're going to get different responses. Heck, start w/Bray Wyatt. Go around asking "who is the better wrestler: Reigns or Wyatt?" And that is one, whew, that I'm certain we'll get a multitude of colorful responses. Besides, trying to acknowledge who is a better "wrestler" is beyond the realms of anything one person can say is true, and others have to follow/agree w/.
> 
> ...


Agree to disagree, I suppose. But one point I would like to make is, I never said Bryan "carried" Reigns or that it was a carryjob. When I typed that reply I specifically avoided using that word because then it would have made what I said illogical. I said Bryan led Reigns through that match, as in he was the one dictating everything and keeping it structured. Thats all. Reigns held up his end for sure, he exceeded my expectations, considering his performance against Orton at SS was all I had to go off of for long singles matches. But when Bryan has to limit what he does in the ring, ie he can't trade holds, can't have a chain of fast paced action lasting more than short bursts, can't do series of counters and other assorted stuff you'd see in a normal Bryan match because of Reigns limited experience, it just seems off to me to then claim that Reigns was the better wrestler that night. Now that I've typed this out I realize we are arguing semantics and that's retarded, so feel free to ignore everything I said. I don't really know what I'm saying, I'm just crushed I won't get to see Danielson/Lesnae, my top current dream match, before Brock leaves now. I don't give a shit if they do it on Smackdown or main event, I don't care that Bryans not main eventing Mania, even though he probably should be, I just really wanted to see that damn match and Vince took it from me, so maybe Im taking out my frustration on Reigns for no fair reason.

Oh well, life's too short to get legitimately upset about ANYTHING in something like pro wrestling, especially WWE's version. History tells us they will do the stupid thing 8 out of 10 times, I don't know why I've ever expected anything different.

It seems a few of us are on a complete island in thinking that match was just okay and that Bryans performance was average at best. After to listening to all the reviews from Austin, Jericho, Shane Helms, Jim Ross, Wade Keller, Dave Meltzer, and the Cheap Heat guys, every single one of them said Bryan/Reigns was a GREAT match and that Bryan was absolutely awesome in it. I just don't see it. Maybe it's because right before Fastlane started I watched Danielson/McGuinness Unified 2006 thanks to Zeppers upload and absolute peak Danielson was fresh in my mind, but I just found Bryans energy, his selling, and his offense in general to be below his normal otherworldy standard. The selling especially, because Danielson is usually so great at it, made me wonder if his head was in the right place. Everyone has off nights though so I hope it was just that, an off night, and that in the next few months we see the "Best in the World" Bryan return to prominence.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Bray vs Reigns is very easy. As a tag worker it's Reigns. As a singles worker it's Wyatt. As a promo worker it's so far and away Wyatt I think that alone makes Wyatt a much more valuable player than Reigns.

As far as best performances, I agree with Reigns best performance being in that 6-man tag at EC against the Wyatts and was an excellent performance, but Wyatt against Cena at WM30 is far above that and made that match with Cena great. 

Wyatt definitely isn't consistent with his performances. His match against Ambrose at SVS I have as his best singles match off the top of my head, and that was easily ****. But all other matches he had with Ambrose were mediocre at best. He had an excellent match with Cena at Mania but the cage and LMS matches were horrendous. His whole 2013 consisted of a few singles matches that were unspectacular/terrible, but the match against Bryan at RR was awesome. He also gave a great individual performance at this year's Rumble. He also had a really good 3 minute match with Rowan on Smackdown.

Bray's a very mixed bag as a singles worker. Reigns is mostly shit with a few okay/couple of good matches thrown in there. To Reigns credit though, I don't feel he was carried in his two best matches against Rusev and. Bryan. I felt he played his part very well and gave good performances.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I enjoy Reigns more as a tag worker than I do Bray as a singles worker, if that makes sense. Reigns teaming up with Rollins with Ambrose occasionally thrown in the mix was flat out awesome. Those guys absolutely killed it for over a year straight as a team. At the moment, I'm struggling to even think of one single Shield tag that was not good, let alone a flat out bad one. The EC 2014 tag was obviously the pinnacle, with Reigns punch exchange with Rowan, Ambrose going ballistic on Wyatt and taking him over the barricade, and Rollins doing that top rope-back flip off a German thingy being the highlights.

Bray, I absolutely loved his match with Bryan at the Rumble last year, I think that match is light years better than Reigns match with Bryan at Fastlane. I also really liked his Mania match with Cena. Otherwise....not so much, really. I need to rewatch the TLC match with Ambrose again, as I was barely paying attention to it live, I wasn't feeling his matches with Jericho, and he had two flat out abominations vs Cena. He's still young and has a lot of room to improve, so he has that going for him.

One guy who doesn't get brought up nearly enough is Luke Harper. To me, he's better than Wyatt and Reigns by a wide margin. I just love the guy. In fact, if Bryan working either Lesnar or Rollins at Mania is out of the equation, and it would appear that it is, I'd love to see him get 15 minutes to face off with Harper over every other possible opponent that has been thrown out there (Ziggler, Sheamus, the IC title 4-way, etc). Harper has top heel potential and ability imo, and if it's one thing this company desperately needs, it's top heels that get real heat. He's just a monster, he scares little kids, his work is vicious and nasty, and his character/mannerisms are excellent. I could do with a lot more Luke Harper on my screen. He's the man.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> At the moment, I'm struggling to even think of one single Shield tag that was not good, let alone a flat out bad one.


vs. Evolution @ Payback last year. Not bad, but certainly not good either. In terms of sheer dissapointment, Taker/Lesnar felt more gratifying in comparision. Especially compared to the near-masterpiece at Extreme Rules a month earlier.

That being said, two things: 
1) Bray has had more good singles matches than he's given credit for, w/some examples being the Jericho match at NXT, Ambrose match at SD and SVS last year, Sheamus match at Main Event and iirc Show on SD last year as well.

2) SHIELD still owns the world. Reigns will never, EVER have a more productive career period in his entire life. Even he was bringing out some truly awesome performances alongside Rollins and Ambrose. Bray's still far superior to him singularly, but Shield Reigns >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Looney Tunes character who is nowhere near as cool as the Looney Tunes themselves (especially Daffy or Bugs) aka Current Reigns. 

Still a shame that the obviously inferior member of the trio is the one that's getting a push to fucking Jupiter (he wouldn't look strong enough on the Moon :reigns), and the superior being relegated to upper midcard jobber status. At least Rollins is getting something nice... or would, if he wasn't on the brink of being completely directionless at the moment (God bless Orton's return).


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'd call Shield vs Evolution PB bad. The ER match was really good, maybe even great but still was one of their weaker PPV bouts. Otherwise if they even had a few bad matches, they're so few and far between that I don't remember them.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Shield/Evo ER is nowhere close to being one of their weaker PPV bouts imo, as a matter of fact for my liking its their fourth best PPV match ever, third if we're only counting 3-on-3 tags, being behind Shield/Rhodes BG, Shield/Rybell No TLC and Shield/Wyatts EC. On a general aspect (which includes TV), it'd probably land at #6- #7.


----------



## RATED-RKO1991 (Dec 23, 2006)

Currently watching Wrestlemania 26, haven't watched anything from the show other than Taker/HBK since it originally aired. What's everyone's thoughts? I remember enjoying the show a hell of a lot.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

WWE Championship
Batista(c) vs John Cena

World Heavyweight Championship
Chris Jericho(c) vs Edge 

Streak vs Career
The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels

HHH vs Sheamus

If Rey Mysterio loses, he must join the straight edge society
SES (CM Punk) vs Rey Mysterio

Triple Threat Match
Randy Orton vs Ted Dibiase vs Cody Rhodes

No Holds Barred Match
Bret Hart vs Vince McMahon

Unified Tag Team Championship
Big Show, The Miz(c) vs John Morrison, R-Truth

Money In The Bank Ladder MatchKane vs Christian vs MVP vs Drew McIntyre vs Matt Hardy vs Jack Swagger vs Dolph Ziggler vs Shelton Benjamen vs Evan Bourne

I remember marking out for Orton back then, enjoying the MITB, liking punk/rey, edge/jericho, even batista/cena


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

RATED-RKO1991 said:


> Currently watching Wrestlemania 26, haven't watched anything from the show other than Taker/HBK since it originally aired. What's everyone's thoughts? I remember enjoying the show a hell of a lot.


Well Taker/HBK is awesome obviously. Batista/Cena was also great, I actually gave it a **** rating after my last rewatch. The MITB was one of the worst ones, but it was decent enough. Vince/HArt should be avoided at all costs and Punk/Mysterio was good.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ugh, that Raw Chamber was quite dull. Worst Chamber match from the homonimous PPV imho and one of the worst Chamber matches ever in general. On the other hand, the SD Chamber from the same night, I liked quite a lot.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Thanks for your responses. I loved Angle vs. Samoa Joe #1 . Found it riveting and extremely well-done, though I definitely see how the result could piss people off.

Their other two matches after that aren't as good as #1 , IMO.

--------------------------

As for the debate in this thread, I actually liked Fast Lane, and liked the Bryan/Reigns match, and thought that both men performed well. Didn't see the lack of fire from Bryan at all. In fact, I thought he acted douchey, arrogant, superior, and aggressive all at once. Reminded me of the Tag Team turmoil match. 

What I liked from Reigns is that he seemed more aggressive than he has in the past. Those strikes were good. I did think that he looked gassed, though, which is something I've not noticed a lot in the past (though others always pointed it out).

I thought that the submission sequence with Cena/Rusev was really well done. When Cena kept putting his arms down, and had that "eyes darting back and forth" look, I just thought he sold and played that moment extremely well. I was hooked.

The spot calling was horrendous, though. They need to turn the mics down when Cena's performing, because for whatever reason, he is loud as hell. Maybe he has a hearing problem or something, but during one of the sequences, he blatantly said "ok, grab the rope here", so it completely took me out of the moment. Had no chance of any suspense at all, if there was any to be had.

Seth, also, I've noticed is getting louder and louder. "Pull my hair." :lol

The six man tag I thought was really fun, and I was absolutely dreading that match, and hated that it was booked. I was predisposed to hate it, but I actually liked it. 

Don't see anything in Ryback, though. The way most of the board feels about Big Show and Kane, is the way I feel about Ryback. It's not even that I hate him or think that he's absolutely horrendous...it's that he literally shows me nothing. Like, I'm not exaggerating, but I've literally only liked ONE match in his entire career (the Punk TLC one). I watch his matches a lot too, trying to like him, but they're the most uneventful things ever. I always feel like I just wasted my time, every single time. 

Shame that Harper can't even make it on a PPV. He really needs a chant.

---------------------------------

Reigns will hopefully for his sake, have the advantage of being booked Godly. I doubt there will be a big Kane feud after his title win. He'll have people lined up who can truly lead matches, so he won't look that bad, IMO.

The problem is, he will probably face a ton of apathy or worse. The way to counteract that, is to turn him heel, which I think they will do. For now, I'm wary of a Heyman pairing. I just think that Heyman only works with people who he is truly passionate about, and people who have just as large of a charisma as he does.

What would work best is if Roman turns heel and joins the corporation (I'm calling it that, rather than the Authority). The script mirroring reality is the way to go. He IS the chosen one. Let him play that up, with the suits and the shades, and be the arrogant "take no shit" face of the company. 

This could work if Steph & H don't hog the spotlight (big IF).

I just don't see any other scenario working out, because he's already not over the way he should be, for someone who's supposed to be carrying the mantle for the future.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i was :mark: at batista


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

ATF said:


> Shield/Evo ER is nowhere close to being one of their weaker PPV bouts imo, as a matter of fact for my liking its their fourth best PPV match ever, third if we're only counting 3-on-3 tags, being behind Shield/Rhodes BG, Shield/Rybell No TLC and Shield/Wyatts EC. On a general aspect (which includes TV), it'd probably land at #6- #7.


I was speaking 6-man tags only. How many 6-man tags did they have on PPV? Off the top of my head, TLC 2012, EC 2013, WM29... and then it gets fuzzy. EC 2014 comes next from what I remember, WM30, ER 2014 and PB 2014. Here's how I'd rank them:

1) EC 2014
2) TLC 2012
3) EC 2013
4) WM29
5) ER 2014
6) PB 2014

I don't even know where I'd put WM30 because it was the only one that was a total squash and can't really be compared to the others. I will say I'd probably watch it again before PB 2014 again.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I liked the LMS Batista/Cena match, but I didn't like their other things they called matches in 2010. The Wrestlemania match felt like a run-off-the-mill Cena main event. LMS match had too many near-counts, but still fun. Terrible ending though. And the I Quit match is a DUD. But even that isn't as bad as what happened at Elimination Chamber.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

How do people rate these fatal 4 ways?

I haven't watched most of these admittedly, or haven't watched them since they aired, and thus have forgotten. 
[hide]
































[/hide]

couldn't find a vid on it, but i remember watching JBL vs Undertaker vs Booker T vs Eddie from i believe Armageddon 2004.

[hide]








[/hide]
i remember being a fan of all men in this match (always been a fan of all of them), but was cheering ddp/sting more.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That 2011 one is my favorite. Bryan looked so good in it. Yeah1993 had some good reviews for the Fatal Four Way PPV ones.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Should watch Big Show/Rhodes/McIntyre/Ziggler 1/7/11. IMO the best non-Final Four fourway


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've always been fond of HBK/Edge/Orton/Cena's fatal four way from Backlash '07.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

So, Rey's finally released. Alberto was recently saying he couldn't wait for a special someone to arrive in Lucha Underground, and it seems he was hinting at Rey. AAA is also, slowly but surely, becoming a promotion I love.



Spoiler: Cubsfan notes



After a long wait, Rey Misterio Jr. has been released from his WWE contract. There’s no release on their website, but WWE’s responded to questions by simply saying Rey Misterio is not part of the company any longer. The US promotion announced the parting of ways. Misterio is expected to announce appearances with other promotions immediately, and may have already done so by the time you read this. Rey originally expected to leave WWE in 2014 and had already started to make future plans. He’ll finally be able to act on them now.

Those plans obviously include AAA and Lucha Underground. Deals with those promotions may not be formerly announced for some time, but have at least been informally agreed upon. Lucha Underground did not announce their deal with Alberto el Patron until the moment he appeared in their ring at least in part due to the surprise factor. That may be repeated here, but Rey was intended to be part of that promotion from the start and now will get to be. AAA formerly introduced Myzteziz and Alberto at press conferences to promote events last year. AAA’s believed to have already scheduled a 03/03 press conference to talk about Rey de Reyes (as mentioned in the iPPV announcement) and that would make sense as an reintroduction point for Rey Jr. The Rey de Reyes slogan being “Un Rey se acerca” (A Rey is coming) is an obvious allusion.

Rey’s not expected to wrestle much, if at all. There’s surely some health concerns, but he’s a big enough name where he can command a great fee just for showing up and signing some autographs so he’s probably going to stick to that.. It’s not of the question that Rey may wrestle at a TripleMania, but they’re very likely to be Special Appearance type matches, not singles matches going for MOTY.

This helps Lucha Underground get another recognizable face (well, mask) to both El Rey management and sponsors. (It also probably raises the costs of running the show.) Rey’s story of leaving WWE is harder to drill down to simple sentence than Alberto, but he’s even more well known. Rey’s going to go thru the same whirlwind of demand.

It’s unclear at this point if there is any sort of no-compete included in the contract. It may not be a big obstacle if there is one; Lucha Underground is so far ahead that even a “three month” TV no-compete would still allow him to be on the next set of tapings. Those clauses usually aren’t/can’t be enforced out of the country, so it would have no effect on his AAA appearances.

Rey actually was seen as part of last year’s TripleMania, in a video airing only live (never on TV, but “accidentally” shown briefly on PPV) teasing a return to the company soon. Rey also was inducted into AAA’s Hall of Fame in 2007, but AAA was required by WWE to edit him out of the TV broadcast of the ceremony. (A few clips have snuck thru over the years.) As best I can tell, Rey’s last AAA TV would’ve been on the 08/30/1996 Juan de la Barrera show. His next AAA TV appearance may be in the same building.

The date of Rey leaving WWE had been agreed to for months, sometime after Rey’s last meeting with WWE officials in Buffalo. That date was supposed 02/27 (a late Friday release to bury the news), with the idea that Rey’s side was not allowed to tell leak it out or WWE would go back on their deal. Bizarrely, it appears it was WWE who leaked the news a day early by moving Rey to the Alumni section of their roster. There were a lot of little leaks coming out so WWE might have just decided to be done with it. I’m not sure if this is the last we’ll hear about the parting of the ways – there are not good feelings on either side and more is going to come out about it – but hopefully the early announcement means everyone can just move on quicker.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If Rey shows up in that joke Lucha Underground I'll be embarrassed for him. But AAA though. Now that's where the fun lies for him.

Just saw this:



Yeah1993 said:


> MNM are kind of overlooked in 2006, I think. They had one tag that really stood out to me but being a complete asshole I've forgotten what it was. Looking up SD results it was probably v. the Mexicools from Feb 3rd. The MNM/Henry v. Angle/Taker 2/17 handicap is really fun.
> 
> JBL/Finlay/Orton v. Benoit/Rey/Lashley 2/24/06. Everybody should know about that amazing tag but I always seem to forget it exists. Only remembered it now to look up the date for the MNM tags above.
> 
> ...


Did you watch that ECW tag? I'm sure I saw it when it aired but right now it is a completely blank. Indeed sounds amazing. Henry & Knox tag team. Beefy.

Haven't watched Mortis/Wrath vs Glacier/Cat in 2015, at least. I tend to go back to BATB '97 often b/c I love the event a ton, so that is easy enough to make the constant roundabout. The match I got over (8*D) Faces of Fear vs Mortis/Wrath hasn't been seen in a longer time. I should watch every tag match from WCW 1997 PPVs. Most were worth the time.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> I was speaking 6-man tags only. How many 6-man tags did they have on PPV? Off the top of my head, TLC 2012, EC 2013, WM29... and then it gets fuzzy. EC 2014 comes next from what I remember, WM30, ER 2014 and PB 2014. Here's how I'd rank them:
> 
> 1) EC 2014
> 2) TLC 2012
> ...


For me:
1) EC 2014 - ****3/4
2) TLC 2012 - ****3/4
3) ER 2014 - ****1/4
4) EC 2013 - ****
5) WM 29 - ***1/4-1/2
6) PB 2014 - **1/4
7) WM 30 - **

Extremely impressive, all-time great even track record for 3-on-3's only on PPV. If we were to add TV 3-on-3's:

1) EC 2014
2) TLC 2012
3) vs Hell No & Kofi - ****1/4
4) ER 2014
5) vs Hell No & Taker - ****
6) vs Wyatts on ME - ****
7) EC 2013
8) vs Hell No & Orton on SD - ****
9) vs Wyatts in Chicago - ****
10) vs Wyatts #4 - ***3/4

Shame the Shield/Wyatts feud never got a gimmick match to blow it off. Still, EC will forever remain as THE American masterclass on how to do a trios match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The fact WWE never stuck a gimmick for any of those four matches is exactly why it was the perfect series for the six of em. Shame? Pfft. More like they used their brains for once.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

By gimmick I don't mean anything stupid like an Elimination match or something, but rather just make it a Tornado style match, for example, w/everyone fighting each other at the same time, and watch pure madness ensure. And they know better than doing an all-out spotfest, I'm certain of that, which is why I'd be so confident of that working. But they managed to pull off a perfect series out of four non-gimmick matches, one of them being virtually perfect itself, so yeah.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If the matches, as they actually played out, weren't pure madness, then idk what is. Especially the second match sprint. It was insanity.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Went to bed at like 8pm last night because... I dunno, didn't feel like being up any later . But of course I knew I wouldn't sleep straight away, so I put in a DVD. Ended up with the 2nd disc of the Greatest Hits & Misses set for Foley. And what a fucking disc it is. Starts with the HBK Mind Games match and I swear I love it more on every watch. It's just fantastic. Shawn resorting to being more aggressive than he's ever been in order to counter the insanity of Mankind is always awesome to watch. The callback spot to Vader/HBK from SS, with Foley "forgetting" a spot and HBK going apeshit is :mark:. They both end up on the mat brawling like it was a shoot and I think the whole thing just adds to the match rather than being a "lol Foley fucked up like Vader did" spot. Mick is insane throughout the match, both as a character (smashing a pen into his knee to get the feeling back) and as a person (how many fucking bumps did he take to the head on either concrete or steel?). As far as the finish goes... I think unless Mankind was getting the title, the DQ finish was the way to go. HBK still looked like a million bucks as champ, but Foley didn't take the L and still looked strong as he continued his program with 'Taker. Just a shame Vader looked like shit in his interference lol. He was out of position for pretty much everything HBK tried to do to him.

Then the next match is Cactus Jack making his debut in WWF, and while I ain't as high on the match as most people, I do still love it. It's a wild, crazy brawl and so much fun. Them knocking the entire front row guard rail down at one point just makes it even better to me. Cactus Jack is this mythical madman and having HHH react the way he did to him and then all the craziness of the match, it really put him over the top.

Another match I'm not as fond of as most people is the Mick Foley Vs Terry Funk Raw match, but again I do still like it a bunch. Two friends beating the piss out of each other and doing some crazy shit. Was a little disappointed with the crowd though, they seemed to be a little bored for most of the match, which is crazy to think for a WWF 1998 crowd during a crazy brawl/fight between guys like Foley and Funk. THE HOT DOG GUY JUST GOT IT. HE JUST GOT IT AGAIN!!!

4th match on the disc, and we've not gotten all 4 of Foley's characters lol. Dude Love Vs Steve Austin from OTE :mark:. Vince as referee, Undertaker on the outside scaring the shit out of McMahon to make sure he calls it down the middle, Briscoe as the bell ringer (oh man, when he gets wiped out by Austin at one point, then gets picked back up and raises his hand in an "he's ok, folks" moment might very well have been my favourite part of the entire match lol), and Patterson as the ring announcer "reminding" us of all the rules that keep changing as we go along all add to the match just as much as Foley and Austin. Both guys take some awesomely crazy bumps, especially on the stage with all the cars and shit. 

Last 2 matches on the disc are the 1998 HIAC and 2000 street fight, but I was tired at this point and went to sleep. But holy fuck, what a disc of matches lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Mick potato'ing the hell out of HBK on that spot you mentioned is my favorite part of that match. It's gold.

The commentary for Foley vs Funk w/Austin & JR. :ha Five stars.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That fourth match where Harper went batshit insane is underappreciated.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Everyone loves Luke Harper.

as they should


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> Went to bed at like 8pm last night because... I dunno, didn't feel like being up any later . But of course I knew I wouldn't sleep straight away, so I put in a DVD. Ended up with the 2nd disc of the Greatest Hits & Misses set for Foley. And what a fucking disc it is. Starts with the HBK Mind Games match and I swear I love it more on every watch. It's just fantastic. Shawn resorting to being more aggressive than he's ever been in order to counter the insanity of Mankind is always awesome to watch. The callback spot to Vader/HBK from SS, with Foley "forgetting" a spot and HBK going apeshit is :mark:. They both end up on the mat brawling like it was a shoot and I think the whole thing just adds to the match rather than being a "lol Foley fucked up like Vader did" spot. Mick is insane throughout the match, both as a character (smashing a pen into his knee to get the feeling back) and as a person (how many fucking bumps did he take to the head on either concrete or steel?). As far as the finish goes... I think unless Mankind was getting the title, the DQ finish was the way to go. HBK still looked like a million bucks as champ, but Foley didn't take the L and still looked strong as he continued his program with 'Taker. Just a shame Vader looked like shit in his interference lol. He was out of position for pretty much everything HBK tried to do to him.
> 
> Then the next match is Cactus Jack making his debut in WWF, and while I ain't as high on the match as most people, I do still love it. It's a wild, crazy brawl and so much fun. Them knocking the entire front row guard rail down at one point just makes it even better to me. Cactus Jack is this mythical madman and having HHH react the way he did to him and then all the craziness of the match, it really put him over the top.
> 
> ...


That disc is pure gold. IMO MindGames is everything that pro wrestling should be. Foley was as good in that match as anyone has ever been. He made HBK look like a badass, which is a huge accomplishment considering his character back then. It really is the perfect match, not one single aspect of it was off, even the finish because it made no sense to beat Foley when he was in the middle of the Taker feud and Shawn wasn't the type of baby face that needed clean victories to keep support.

I'm really big on the Hunter/Cactus Street Fight. The thing is, you absolutely cannot watch that match without watching the prematch promo Mick does with all 3 faces of Foley appearing. If you don't get goosebumps hearing Mick say "Helmsley, it might be the darkest day of your life, cause it's Madison Square Garden, and Misses Foley's baby boy, has finally come home....BANG BANG!" Then you should probably have your pulse checked. Hunter was actually pretty awesome in that match too.



Hayley Seydoux said:


> Mick potato'ing the hell out of HBK on that spot you mentioned is my favorite part of that match. It's gold.
> 
> The commentary for Foley vs Funk w/Austin & JR. :ha Five stars.


Man oh man do I love me some Steve Austin on commentary. He's absolutely awesome in that Funk/Foley match, but he might be even better for the Benoit/Angle Cage match. Even if that match is a load of nonsense to you, it's worth watching it just to listen to Austin act like a complete lunatic and berate the shit out of JR, with Heyman being his slimy little toadie. 

As for Shield/Wyatts, I tend to agree that none of their matches really needed a gimmick. Letting those guys just go out and do their thing doesn't require any sort of stipulation in order to be an chaotic, wild, exciting, amazing experience. That said, somewhere down the road, if the Shield were to ever face off with the Wyatts again, I'd love to see them work a match where all 6 guys can just go at it at once. Like a 6 man Street Fight where everyone brings their own weapons or even better a 6 man HiaC match like Armageddon 2000 only using tag teams. Even as I'm saying this though, I realize it would be utterly pointless to do that because WWE would never allow them to make those sort of matches what they need to be. Better in this era to forgo gimmicks and stips all together and just stick within the "confines" of a normal match. That way the chaos seems surprising and exciting as opposed to toned down and expected. No DQ matches, unless they are worked like Brock/Punk SS, really just don't do much for me under the current atmosphere because everyone seems to do the same thing (throw tons of chairs in the ring, hit a few kendo stick shots, few chair shots to the back, break 1 table, throw someone into the steps, etc). 

Ambrose and Rollins still managed to have a really damn good No DQ match, but seeing a good Last Man Standing match, Cage match, Hell in a Cell match, I Quit match, etc just doesn't seem a likely proposition these days.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> If the matches, as they actually played out, weren't pure madness, then idk what is. Especially the second match sprint. It was insanity.


Well yeah, but I mean in the way that it's Shield/Wyatts without any restrictions attached to it. Let them do their thing THAT way and see how high can it go.

Do agree their Raw Chicago match was batshit crazy tho. Still like their Main Event match more because of that incredible Ambrose FIP out of their TV stuff, but yeah.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm actually cool w/Benoit vs Angle in the cage. Enough to not hate it for any faults it probably has. It's got enough flash & memorable means for a TV blow off to where I have no angst towards it & certainly Austin was great in the role he played.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ok peoples, throw me your Cyber Sunday 2007 STARS~! as I'm curious FOR NO REASON AT ALL :side:.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Welp... I wouldn't remember stars, but Batista/Taker ruled, Rey/Finlay was pretty damn good, Orton/HBK was good, HHH/Umaga was enjoyable...ish, Punk/Miz was meh, MVP/Kane or Jeff/Kennedy I remember not at all except for the endings.

I went back on some of 2013 and SHIELD in general, and I wanna ask what has been asked in this thread a few times in the past - Shield/Rhodes Bros.: Battleground or No DQ on Raw? I watched both, and I gotta say, it's probably one of the closest calls ever. Both are ****1/4 EASILY and are potential ****1/2 for my books (they're that good, yeah). I guess first choice is the No DQ match for excellent use of its structure (starts as a frenzied and hot but still traditional tag, degenerates into utter chaos), absolutely stellar character work and some brilliant all-out chaos as typical in SHIELD matches, though on the other hand Battleground had a better story to it, a better atmosphere and felt far more gratifying without gimmicks. I really don't know.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

#ROOT said:


> Ok peoples, throw me your Cyber Sunday 2007 STARS~! as I'm curious FOR NO REASON AT ALL :side:.


Been a few years since I've seen them but I thought HHH/Umaga was great and somewhat of a gem (*** 3/4) and Rey/Finlay was good but nothing standout (***). Own the show on DVD but have never got around to watching the rest.  Think I saw those two matches on individual sets.

-----------------------------

Has everyone heard the announcement on the multi-man Ladder Match for the IC Title at Mania? Thoughts?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Downloading the Shield DVD because all this talk of Shield matches is making me..well...feel like watching a bunch of Shield matches. Not sure what the match listings are but I'm sure they're some great matches on there. Heck, the worst Shield match is still watchable. There will never be another group of rookies that gelled like those three. I don't know how anyone could say one member had always outshine the others. To me, all three looked equal. 

Oh and I haven't seen HBK/Mankind in YEARS. I don't recall any spot looking like it was blown. Then again, I didn't know the match had a call back spot. Will check out Vader/HBk and the Mind Games match as well.

EDIT: Just checked Amazon and apparently there's some weird Chris Jericho DVD coming out as well as ECW Unreleased Vol 3.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Cyber Sunday 2007*

I still firmly believe WWE should bring this show back for the WWE Network or something.


*Finlay Vs Rey Mysterio - Stretcher Match*

:mark:

They had a match at the last PPV, and Finlay faked an injury. He was carried out on a stretcher, then jumped Rey and beat 

the fuck out of him. So no surprise the fans voted for a Stretcher Match here tonight!!!

Wow, people are watching this show in Scotland AND the UK!!! JBL is so smrt .

:mark: Rey takes that sliding bump from the inside of the ring to the outside, but instead of landing on the floor, he lands 

on the stretcher :mark:.

The other options for this match were No DQ and Sheleighly on a Pole. Thing is... a stretcher match is No DQ anyway... and 

they actually set up a pole with the sheleighly on top of it... so technically the fans get ALL 3 matches in one :lmao.

Sheleighly to Rey's knee! Then somehow he manages to run and jump around right after. Come on Rey, you know better than 

that...

Match is a super fun brawl and some nice use of the stretcher too. Love the modified 619 that put Finlay on the stretcher. 

Rey completely ignores to sell his knee though which does suck.

:lmao the finish is botched when a cable gets caught up in the wheels of the stretcher, preventing Rey from pushing Finlay 

over the line :lmao. They improvise and Finlay still loses and it's all ok in the end .

Good stuff, had some problems, but still fun as hell. They've had a bunch of better matches though.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


Fuck me, what happened to Matt Hardy's face lol? He can't compete tonight so MVP will defend his title against either Kane, 

Henry or Khali.

The divas are all dressed up and we have to vote for who has the best costume. Maria is a cat. Victoria is in one of those 

fat suits as a sumo wrestler :lmao.


*CM Punk Vs The Miz - ECW Championship Match*

Choices were BIG DADDY V, John Morrison and The Miz. And who the fuck did everyone pick? The Miz? Dear people. Get you heads 

examined. Thanks.

So I've almost seen all of Punk's 2007 PPV matches now. And his 2007 on PPV was awful :lmao. A series of terrible matches 

with Morrison, a god awful match with Burke, a match with Miz here, and that couple minute match with BDV that could have 

been awesome if they gave it some more time and an actual finish. Guess they were just building him up for the WHC 8*D. It 

is WWE's style, after all...

Vince McMahon: "I like this guy, I want him to be the champion in about 6 months time".

Creative: "Ok Vince. We'll book him in shitty matches and have him lose as often as possible and look pathetic right up 

until he wins the belt out of nowhere.

Vince McMahon: "Excellent".

:lmao Miz forgets to move out of the way of a cross body. HE FORGETS TO MOVE OUT OF THE WAY. Leaving Punk to just land 

awkwardly on him.

Punk wins in another disaster of a PPV match for him in 2007.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Mickie James is an Indian Warrior Princess. The hottest one ever according to her. I'd have to agree. Torrie Wilson is 

dressed like a man.


Time to find out who faces Orton in the WWE Title Match later tonight. HBK, Kennedy or Hardy? HBK, duh. Which means, Jeff 

Hardy and Mr Kennedy face each other next! Nice chance from the two losers getting a tag title match lol. :lmao Kennedy got 

10%.


*Jeff Hardy Vs Mr Kennedy*

Headlocks. Yey. Wouldn't mind if they knew how to work a headlock spot.

What a dull start to this match lol.

Mr Kennedy wins.

I swear that's all I have to say about this one. They just... there was.. I mean... what?

No match structure, no story, just 2 guys doing something to fill time on a PPV.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


More divas in costumes. Melina looks like a ****** in her showgirl outfit. That's disturbing.


Foley is practicing for potentially being the referee in the main event by... talking to cut outs of Taker and Batista 

:lmao. JBL interupts him with a video promoting HIM for the referee instead .


*MVP Vs Kane - WWE United States Championship Match*

So the fans picked Kane. Bah, why not Henry? 

How long had Vickie been on TV at this point btw? Because she had a 1 line promo before the match and sounded more wooden 

than... uhhh... a plank of wood? I CAN'T BE FUNNY ALL THE TIME YOU KNOW.

Of course the fans picked Kane anyway. He's the only fucking babyface out of the 3 choices. Plus he has the history with MVP 

so the fans really didn't have much of a choice. Oh WWE, you claim to give the fans the power, then manipulate them to vote 

for who YOU want. Unless the system fucks up and some random dude gets picked instead 8*D.

Kane has injured ribs thanks to Big Daddy V on Smackdown, so MVP obviously goes after them. Aaaand then Kane gets really 

pissed and goes out of his way to fuck up MVP's ribs so he can feel the same pain :mark:. 

MVP gets his ribs so fucked up he gets counted out. Actually looked like a "genuine" way to get counted out than a heel just 

trying to keep his title lol. I mean, Kane FUCKED HIM UP lol.

Match was fine. Didn't last too long and Kane did most of the work.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


Layla is a bad cop. Kelly Kelly is a pimp. Huh, some role reversal for her, then? 


*Randy Orton Vs Shawn Michaels - WWE Championship Match*

HBK continues his STREAK of not losing in fan votes at Cyber Sunday to be placed into the championship match lol.

Don't remember this match at all, and not expecting anything from it either. I seem to just remember it being a feud 

advancer for their Survivor Series match (which I get to watch soon :mark: ). Oh wait, I do remember the finish lol.

A superkick attempt early on forces Orton to shit himself and run to the outside :lmao. Then HBK does a dive over the 

ropes... and I *think* he wanted to just do his usual crossbody move... but he seemed to overshoot himself and ended up 

doing a flip :lmao.

So, Orton put HBK out of action for 4 months with a concussion. And HBK's response to this is... arm work.

Back suplex on the ring apron puts Orton in controller now and... his arm is suddenly healed!

Oh wait, no, Orton showed some signs of pain in his arm. About 2 minutes after using it a couple of times... .

Honestly I was pretty bored with this whole thing. Mostly felt like they were wasting time rather than trying to have a 

great match.

And for it to end with a punch to the balls is meh as fuck too. Thankfully their SVS match is tremendous.

Best part of this was HBK hitting the superkick AFTER the match.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Triple H Vs Umaga - Street Fight*

Options were street fight, cage and first blood. And the fans went with STREET FIGHT? The fans boo when it isn't a cage 

match lol, and I'm sure Vince isn't too pleased cos they put a lot of effort into building it as a cage match .

I suppose it wouldn't have mattered what kind of match this was. Based on previous encounters, I'm not thrilled at the 

prospect of sitting through this one. And if it was a cage match, HHH would probably have needed to be the heel in order to 

put in a good performance.

Brawling, and then for no reason other than being in position, Umaga disappears behind the Cyber Sunday set so he can get 

speared through it .

No expense spared with the set piece, either. Looked like it was made out of CARDBOARD.

:lmao HHH keeps punching Umaga, who just won't fall down. So HHH goes outside, under the ring and pulls out...

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN IT'S TIME FOR THE CYBER SUNDAY WEAPON OF CHOICE GAME!!!

HHH is trying to knock down the monster Umaga, but his right hand isn't working. He goes under the ring for a weapon, but 

which does he choose?

A). The Sledgehammer

B). A steel chair.

C). A trash can.

D). Brass Knucks.

If you said A, B or D, then you are a fucking moron because OBVIOUSLY THE ONLY WEAPON TO TAKE DOWN UMAGA IS A FUCKING PAPER 

THIN TRASH CAN!!! Thanks for playing!

OH SHIT, THINGS JUST PICKED UP :mark:. UMAGA APPLIES A BEAR HUG!!!

A steel chair finally comes into the match and... gets used for a fucking low blow :lmao.

RUNNING SPLASH THROUGH THE TABLE~! In the absence of the Spanish Announce Table, the ECW one gets taken out. :lmao the ECW 

commentators aren't even there :lmao. Did they just show up to commentate the ONE ECW match on the show then fuck off? Seems 

kinda pointless to me lol.

Sledgehammer to the face, Pedigree, HHH wins.

Had like 2 minutes worth of stuff that didn't suck. And not altogether either. Spread across the entire match.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Biggest moment of the night... who wins the diva halloween costume competition?!?! My vote is for Mickie. Yey she won too 

. Not much competition though, most of the others looked pretty awful lol.


*Batista Vs The Undertaker - Special Guest Referee Stone Cold Steve Austin - World Heavyweight Championship Match

*

:mark: been waiting for this one. Had to sit through a shitty event to see it but now I'm here.

All 3 potential referees come out to the ring and when Austin gets picked, we have us a brawl :mark:. AUSTIN TAKES SOME 

BUMPS!!! And then ends up stunning both guys .

So I'm half way into this match and yet to write anything until now lol. I just sat back to WATCH IT because it's awesome 

:mark:. Love the start to the match with Batista charging at 'Taker with a spear, just like he did at WM, but this time 

Undertaker is ready and avoids it, and tries to boot Batista in the face, but he too sees it coming and gets out of the way. 

From there it's a slow build as they lock up and try to power each other around, before going into full "KILL EACH OTHER" 

mode!

The match is just a back and forth SLUGFEST between two heavyweights, one of whom happens to be one of the best ever. The 

other being Batista, duh. Austin as ref is literally there to try and increase buyrates because as a referee he does fuck 

all pretty much .

Remember when a chokeslam from Undertaker was actually believable as a finisher lol? I miss those days .

Man, Batista can't throw a punch for shit. LOL.

The last 5 minutes or so are filled with both men hitting their big moves, which I think fits perfectly here as both men are 

hyped up by WWE are two unstoppable monsters, so they are going to have to hit EVERYTHING they've got, MULTIPLE TIMES to 

win. Kinda like Brock these days. He ain't going down to one finisher... any more .

BATISTA BOMB~!

1...2... KICK OUT~!

Can Batista beat Undertaker? He hasn't thus far in their 2007 rivalry, and so far the Spear, Spinebuster AND Batista Bomb 

have failed him.

But if at first you don't succeed, try, try again.

BATISTA BOMB~!

And this time it IS over! Batista finally gets a win over the Dead Man and retains his title! They are now at 1 win each and 

2 draws... so this isn't over yet! HIAC here we come :mark:.

Lawler says it best (believe it or not) when he calls this match a WAR. Because that's what it was. Two unstoppable monsters 

going to fucking WAR with each other for the World Heavyweight Championship. I love it. LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT. Always been 

my favourite of their series and still continues to be.

*Rating: ****1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 7*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 9.5*​


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I will preface this by saying the video playbacwas choppyu, but how the hell a match involving early 90s Jushin Fucking Liger taking on a physical prime Sting and especially DOC was a run of the mill, pedestrian match when Liger worked the majority of 11 minutes is beyond me. (I reference Starrcade 92 match I saw for the first time today btw). I understand Doc and Liger worked opposite sides of the puro coin and I've never seen them mix it up, but Doc on offense with Liger's awesome selling and babyface mannerisms just by nature should be money (to find a comparison, Liger always worked well against the Steiners albeit the Steiners were more technical and less smashmouth than Doc). Only good or even memorable things here were a sick spot where Liger goes for something in the corner only for Doc to shove him off and BLAST him with that three point stance clothesline and there was a section of solid arm work for Sting and Doc. Not a bad match, but how this ended up average is a question. 

By the way, what are some Ray Traylor/Big Bssman reccomendations


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm checking out the matches on the Shield DVD and holy shit, they put Ambrose/Regal on it :mark: No fucking way :mark: NO FUCKING WAY :mark:

Now, I feel like a real piece of shit for downloading this. Seems like a WWE DVD actually worth buying.

EDIT: Started the doc and blown away by the fact there's ROH, CZW and DGUSA footage. Fuck me, would have really liked to add this to a collection. I feel like deleting it off my PC and buying it on Blu Ray now :lol


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> *SummerSlam June 42rd, 2010*
> 
> Never seen a single match from this show, I don’t think.
> 
> ...


I'm late, but that was one of my favorite reviews from these threads. Just saying.

On my nine trillionth watch, I'll put Austin v. Hart SVS96 at _**** 3/4 _. It just has this quality to me that just lingers. It may because it was one of the first matches I really appreciated for the ring-work (I was like 8, okay, don't judge).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Austin vs Hart from Survivor Series '96 is amazing. I watched it w/my brother (his first time iirc) late last year and I told him it is a near 30 minute match. In no time it was over and he was like "that was 30 minutes? You're lying." b/c of how smooth it flows on by. Match getting more and more love is top notch. Austin's entire '96 is p. damn awesome, tbhayley. vs Savio Strap Match & vs Mero KOTR are just about as high.

Agreed w/Cal on the majority of Cyber Sunday '07. Trips vs Umaga is super bad.

---------

Traylor/Bossman/Big Bubba recs? 

iirc Yeah1993 or Brock posted an INCREDIBLE match vs One Man Gang from Mid-South. Lets see if they post it. Honest to goodness one of the best things I've ever seen from wrestling. 

Others: vs Vader - Spring Stampede 1994. vs Sting x2 (WCW Uncensored 1995 & WCW Slamboree 1995). vs Scott Steiner - WCW Nitro 3/16/98. vs Barbarian - WWF Royal Rumble 1991. vs Mr. Perfect - WWF WrestleMania VII. Majority of matches w/Akeem as part of Twin Towers.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Traylor/Bossman/Big Bubba recs?
> 
> iirc Yeah1993 or Brock posted an INCREDIBLE match vs One Man Gang from Mid-South. Lets see if they post it. Honest to goodness one of the best things I've ever seen from wrestling.


*One Man Gang vs Big Bubba Rogers (UWF Mid South) (04.19.1987)*

x24eaen


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I would add the match Traylor had w/the Mountie at SummerSlam 1991 as a fun little gem of his. Not one of his best, but fun nonetheless.

Much like yesterday, I went back and watched some 2013 goodness (2013 is a serious contender for greatest in-ring year the WWE's ever had, honestly). Why is Yeah working over 2010 and not that much superior year is beyond me (at least it allows for some written comedy when he shits all over matches from that year ). Watched some forgotten ones from that year. 

Started w/one of my favorite matches from SHIELD: the 11 on 3 Handicap match in Chicago. My God, how can the WWE book something like THAT, and then book the shit we see currently? It's just mind-numbing. So perfectly made, no one in the babyface team really looked like jobbers, the ones I expected to be shitty in Kofi and RVD got out of the way quickly AND did so while selling a limb effectively (so they WEREN'T shitty, how 'bout that?), the Shield looked like only the Shield could, the crowd was electric... Goddamn. And the ending w/the babyfaces ganging up over Rollins was just perfect karma. This match just gives me dem goosebumps. Has some minor issues, yeah, but they're not serious enough to detract from this piece of awesome.

Then I also saw Orton's matches w/the Rhodes Bros. Started w/him and Cody in the roles that don't fit each all that well - Orton as babyface, Cody as heel - on 4/29/2013. Quite solid stuff, w/Cody showing off his cockyness nicely and them having good enough chemistry to have it work as a struggle for each other, even if Orton winning was too obvious. Of course though, the bright lights are the ones that played up to the Rhodes family redemption angle that lead to that classic against SHIELD at Battleground. The one w/Cody fighting for his career is so overlooked it's not even funny. The match was fairly similar in terms of structure to the 4/29 match, but w/roles reversed and a career on the line, it was WAAAYYY more exciting and emotionally investing. Ending? Absolutely heartbreaking. And Orton/Goldust was even better. That is a legit forgotten classic. Goldust took the emotion packed by Cody a week earlier and amped it up quite a notch. Every nearfall he had was believable, and his loss was arguably even more heartbreaking.

Finally, for some reason, I felt like watching a big hoss fight, and I remember none better in 2013 than Show/Ryback in November. And that was just super fun. Ryback gave arguably one of his best singles performances ever, by playing the role of the arrogant and douchey BIG GUY very, very well. Show just complemented him perfectly as the "wake up call" giant to Ryback's confidence. It was hard-hitting, crowd was surprisingly into it, and just super fun to watch.

And none of this is even among the absolute best of 2013. Or even that close to it. Just proves how awesome that year was.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Bubba & OMG match is still one of the greatest damn things ever.

Ryback vs Big Show from late last year is awesome too.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

All this Shield talk has made me want to check out the Shield/Wyatts tag matches so I'll get on that right now.

Also, which is the best Zayn/Cesaro match? Just realised I haven't seen any of them and I want to watch the best one first.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

admiremyclone said:


> Also, which is the best Zayn/Cesaro match? Just realised I haven't seen any of them and I want to watch the best one first.


NXT Arrival, closely followed by the 2/3 Falls match.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Brock said:


> NXT Arrival, closely followed by the 2/3 Falls match.


Thanks


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

One Man Gang threw some terrible punches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I almost answered "Kurt RussellReunion II" for the Zayn vs Cesaro question. 

Interesting.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I'm a fan of the ROH match they had were they had an absurdly long "Hey" vs. "Ole" battle. Survival of the Fittest I think it was?


For about a month Goldust and Cody vs. The Authority/Shield was absolutely amazing. The singles matches with Orton kicked ass and then when they fought to get their jobs back it was also pretty amazing. I fucking love the Rollins/Reigns vs. Rhodes Bros from Battle Grounds. I was at the show and everyone there reacted as if they were seeing a main event.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:lmao


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

TaylorFitz said:


> For about a month Goldust and Cody vs. The Authority/Shield was absolutely amazing. The singles matches with Orton kicked ass and then when they fought to get their jobs back it was also pretty amazing. I fucking love the Rollins/Reigns vs. Rhodes Bros from Battle Grounds. I was at the show and everyone there reacted as if they were seeing a main event.


That short Rhodes/Shield program was, honest to God, one of the best things the company has ever done. The Orton matches were awesome, Goldust is awesome, The Shield was awesome and Cody was like the most over he's ever been. I actually shed a tear when the Rhodes family embraced after they won at Battleground. Perfect professional wrestling (gave it ****1/4), and winning the titles the night after just made it even better (**** for that). Seriously awesome shit.

The Rhodes brothers always make it seem massive when they win the tag team titles, and I'm sad that the build for their WrestleMania match has been so shitty.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's not even close to the funniest, or most :CENA moment of that PPV, either, Kenny.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Is it some kind of running joke for Hogan to be involved in funny bad stuff at Halloween Havoc events? I haven't seen that Sting match but the matches with Warrior and Piper from 98 and 97 immediately come to mind as some of the most hilariously bad main events ever.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I've never watched the full PPV, maybe I should. :lmao

WCW Cruiserweight Championship: Disco Inferno (C) vs Lash Leroux
WCW Tag Team Championship: Harlem Heat vs Kidman and Konnan vs Brian Knobbs and Hugh Morrus w/ Jimmy Hart (Triple Threat Street Fight)
Eddy Guerrero vs Perry Saturn
Brad Armstrong vs Berlyn (w/ The Wall)
WCW Television Championship: Chris Benoit (C) vs Rick Steiner
Bret Hart vs Lex Luger (w/ Elizabeth)
WCW World Heavyweight Championship: Sting (C) vs Hulk Hogan
WCW United States Championship: Sid Vicious (C) vs Goldberg
Sting vs Goldberg (Goldberg wins title ... :lmao)

I've never watched this is its entireity, i've heard its one of the worst shows of all time. Many said Sid/Goldberg was the best match on the card. Faces/Heels apparently weren't portrayed as such.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> Is it some kind of running joke for Hogan to be involved in funny bad stuff at Halloween Havoc events? I haven't seen that Sting match but the matches with Warrior and Piper from 98 and 97 immediately come to mind as some of the most hilariously bad main events ever.


You seem to be forgetting Halloween Havoc 95, which featured a monster truck battle and THE YETAY


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Goldberg vs Sid was seriously the only thing that wasn't terrible from what the story wanted; aka a gnarly fight w/two beasts. Other than the fact that Goldberg felt like the heel & Sid came away as a tremendous babyface w/a lot of heart. So...the booking still failed. 8*D



Choke2Death said:


> Is it some kind of running joke for Hogan to be involved in funny bad stuff at Halloween Havoc events? I haven't seen that Sting match but the matches with Warrior and Piper from 98 and 97 immediately come to mind as some of the most hilariously bad main events ever.


Havoc's end from 1995 - 2000 all have hilarious endings. I often point this out b/c it is wrestlecrap brilliance:

'95 - Hogan vs Giant & the YETI fiasco that lives on in infamy. That match, my god.

'96 - Hogan vs Savage in a hilarious romp. Piper debuts, but they reach the end of their time so they have to leave while Piper is in mid-promo.

'97 - Hogan vs Piper in the cage. Piper wins. nWo demolish Piper immediately post-match. A fan jumps on the cage, enters the ring, and proceeds to be killed. On camera. For several minutes. Until WCW decide to just end the PPV. Confusion everywhere. 

'98 - Not Hogan related. Although, the match w/Warrior is a super farce. Goldberg vs DDP happens and it is a stellar, everything you hope for match. Except for the part when the feed cuts off the PPV and nobody watching at home gets to see it. Thus leading to tons & tons of reimbursement. All of this could have been avoided that that PPV not been filled w/a lot of pointless segments.

'99 - Sting vs Hogan doesn't happen for some reason. Probably Russo's way of wanting to work the fans for the 100th time. Kayfabe doesn't matter. Sting comes out for an open challenge. Goldberg answers. Apparently the commentators claim it is non-title. Goldberg squashes the World champion in three minutes & that is randomly the main event. The ref gives Goldberg the championship & says he won it. Sting contests it was non-title w/the ref as the show is winding down. Sting beats up the ref. Nobody knows what in the world is happening. It fades to black.

'00 - Goldberg vs Kronik is the main event b/c Goldberg got jumped earlier in the night. Booker T vs Steiner in a grudge match for the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP went on right before this. Goldberg beats both in three minutes. It was a squash w/zero heat in thinking Goldberg would lose. 

What a franchise. You can't make this stuff up. :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Don't forget 1994. To think that was supposed to be Flair's retirement match. 1992 also had the Sting/Roberts debacle.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It's a wonder this company lasted as long as it did. :lmao

Just from reading all of that, I damn near get a headache and am unable to figure out what exactly happened in each of those. Some serious "gotta see it to believe it" stuff. AND THE YETAAAAAAAY! :lmao


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

holy shit :lmao :lmao


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Been on a big guy (general term not ryback) kick, and man I havent seen some of these Big Show 06 ECW champ title defenses in years, but I'm making my way through and these are fun as hell. My favorite and probably best is Ric Flair being a crazy old bastard attacking Show with low blows three times in a row while bleeding heavily with the vintage Flair overcut before attacking Show with the barbed wire two by four then grabbing thumbtacks, then pelting him with a chair and failing miserably when Show just gets pissed that the thumbtacks lodge into that massive back. Glorious. Taker using a methodical approach trying to cut down Show's leg and in the mean time trading stiff shots with Show. They had an above average match cooking before Khali waddles in. Sabu trying to employ the ol Sabu offense minus the surprise takedowns only for giant Show to have Sabu well scouted and break Sabu's chair right from the getgo, then Show being too large for the camel clutch and anytime Sabu spriingboards Show catches him in midair and turns the tables or swats him like a fly Sandman saying screw it and pretty much exclusively using his cane is humorous. Heck, even this Kane/Show match is better than it has business being (though Heyman plays a role in that one's success). Unfortunately according to profightdb, I have a string of RVD matches to go, which is where my praise will likely end. I have my dubts about this DX vs Show match too. 

In these matches I have outlined that I have seen though, Show looks and wrestles like just a wall of mass that takes a wrecking ball to go down will devastate with the simplest stuff. Show's condescending demeanour in these matches because he is so sure of his at this point I would estimate a legitimate 500 plus is money. Because the guy looks so massive with this gained weight, he seems to have more functional power and everything he does has so much more of a snap then current Show. Show's ring performances have been lacking in recent years, yet he would find a fix if he would watch some tape on as strange as it sounds himself  Night and day how differently he performs and is conveyed here compared to now.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:lmao never even heard of the dusty rhodes one :lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

People dislike Hogan/Warrior II? I've come to realize that it's actually the greatest match of all time. All those blatant spot calls, all those fuck ups, those brilliant 'Hogan pretends to be a badass heel by cheating in front of the ref' moments, all that EGOMANIA... oh man. Best part was Hogan blading after a fucking double axe handle. And people say Angle/HBK II's ending was contrived, they clearly forgot the destructive power of dat move 8*D 

They deliberately tried to have the worst match ever that night, that's the explanation for what happened. And the effort payed off. And that's EXACTLY why it is the greatest match of all time: that kind of effort deserves recognition as pure, hilarious and putrid perfection. Negative *****? More like a positive million. DDP/Goldberg was the 2nd MOTN TOPS for HH '98.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Anyone got any suggestions for a fun 3-4 match series I can blast through in about an hour/90 minutes?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

@Flux SHIELD VS WYATTS.

Just rewatched that series myself. One of these days I'm gonna bump the EC match to *****. There's just nothing about it that doesn't work. The only way I don't have it at a perfect score is if I nitpick tiny little things, tbh. The rematch in Chicago is just pure madness, w/a somewhat touching story arch in Rollins abandoning his teammates to add a strong emotional factor. The Main Event match is pretty much a Trios 101 w/FIP segment of 2014 by Ambrose. And then the fourth match is similar to the Main Event match, only w/a crazier Harper performance but not so crazy crowd. Long story short: they're all great.

STARZ~:
EC: ****3/4
Raw 3/3: ****
ME: ****
Raw 5/5: ***3/4


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Don't forget 1994. To think that was supposed to be Flair's retirement match. *1992 also had the Sting/Roberts debacle.*


Was that Sting/Jake "The Snake" match the Coal Miner's Glove match? If so, that was no exaggeration, the worst match I've ever seen in my life. It was compounded by the fact that I was actually really excited for that match. I saw that listed on Jake's DVD, and was like "hmm, that sounds really interesting" and popped it in. I've never seen such a nonevent in my life. :lol

I mean, that was supposed to be the main event of a big PPV? It's something you'd see, like, Fandango and Xavier Woods do on RAW, and even they'd do it better.

I was so disappointed. It really felt as though they did absolutely nothing in that match. Who booked that?

I was stunned by how worthless and pointless that was.


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

That was the first year of "Spin the Wheel Make the Deal" where, kind of like RAW Roulette, you spun and ended up with a match stipulation. They didn't rig the wheel and got stuck with the absolute worst stipulation. After that, it was rigged.

I don't know how much of the match being bad was because of the stip though because I haven't watched it since the event aired. I do remember wanting Jake to win though as I always rooted against Sting by this point....even though I was 11.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The scary part is that it wasn't even the worst match that night.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Flux said:


> Anyone got any suggestions for a fun 3-4 match series I can blast through in about an hour/90 minutes?


Eddie Guerrero vs Edge Summerslam 2002
Eddie Guerrero vs Edge Unforgiven 2002
Eddie Guerrero vs Edge No DQ Smackdown 2002

Fun little series. Nothing epic or anything, but the first two matches are definitely good and the No DQ blowoff is great. Ends with Eddie getting a standing ovation even though he was a heel and lost.

You could also do the Eddie/RVD series (BL 02', JD 02', Raw Ladder Match) but if you do that one definitely skip Insurexxtion as its a load of crap.

Jericho/Mysterio was also loads of fun (Extreme Rules 09', JD 09', The Bash 09') with another SD match thrown in there though I can't remember the date.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

The date for Jericho/Mysterio on Smackdown! is 10.07.2009. It's an awesome series.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao at Sting/Roberts. What an awful, awful match. At least Jake's DVD set has the awesome DIRTY WHITE BOY match from SMW. Worth the price alone for that. And the documentary is great too .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I feel like I'm alone in thinking Sting/Jake is "only" bad and not totally terrible.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Would love to hear thoughts on this match from people in here. I personally really liked it when I watched it live (can't remember if it was a stream or main event PPV), but I would've been 15 or so at the time and marked the fuck out at this, because I was a RVD mark, only liked Cena when he was heel and of course E C W


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

I loved it the first time I saw it. I've watched it around ten times since then (in 2011). Great stuff. Match may not be the best but the crowd makes the match sometimes, and Edge was gold.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

King Kenny said:


> Would love to hear thoughts on this match from people in here. I personally really liked it when I watched it live (can't remember if it was a stream or main event PPV), but I would've been 15 or so at the time and marked the fuck out at this, because I was a RVD mark, only liked Cena when he was heel and of course E C W


Last week's PPV Ramble on my BLOG~! was that entire show http://wrestlingview.co.uk/?p=1894 . Oh and hey, this weeks is No Way Out 2006. Posted just now because I completely forgot yesterday :lmao.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Agree with your points re crowd involvement. I wouldn't have liked that match as much without the crowd.

Oh man I really have to watch Edge, Lita, Foley vs Funk, Dreamer, Buelah again. I haven't watched this whole PPV for years, but that's definitely the stand out match. Loved it when I first saw it. 

The year in your link in your sig is wrong. :lmao

Oh man, just read your No Way Out 2006 review. I haven't watched that since 2006 either. I won't even bother watching the whole thing, just watching Orton/Rey and Angle/Taker will do me. :mark:


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Kenny, if you enjoy Mysterio/Rey from NWO 2006, please watch their Smackdown cap-off. Orton wrestles like his career depends on it (it does) and it's fantastic. Second best WWE match in 2006 for me.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Rah said:


> Kenny, if you enjoy Mysterio/Rey from NWO 2006, please watch their Smackdown cap-off. Orton wrestles like his career depends on it (it does) and it's fantastic. Second best WWE match in 2006 for me.


Agreed, atleast about the part saying Orton/Mysterio 4/2/06 was absolutely fantastic. Might be my favorite Orton performance, though it wasn't his best match or anything.

Best of 2006? Hmmmm, I'd rank the best of 2006 like this:

1. Benoit/Finlay JD 06'
2. Taker/Angle NWO 06'
3. Benoit/Orton SD! 1/16/06
4. Foley/Edge/Lita vs Dreamer/Funk/Beulah ONS 06'
5. Foley/Edge WM 22 
6. Orton/Mysterio SD! 4/2/06
7. Benoit/Regal No Mercy 06'
8. Finlay/Benoit SD! 5/5/06 (whenever their KOTR match was)
9. Benoit/Orton No DQ SD! 1/27/06
10. Benoit/Finlay SD! 11/24/06

I forgot how absolutely incredible the quality for 2006 was. I haven't even listed the Benoit/Regal Velocity 06, Angle/Taker SD!, Benoit/Henry SD!, Orton/Mysterio NWO 06, HBK/Vince WM 22, Finlay/Mysterio, Trips/Show NYR 06', or another handful of GREAT matches. Geeze. That was one hell of a year huh?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Best of 2006? Hmmmm, I'd rank the best of 2006 like this:
> 
> 1. Benoit/Finlay JD 06'
> 2. Taker/Angle NWO 06'
> ...


Here's what I have:

MNM vs. Hardy Boyz vs. Blue Bloods vs. Londrick (Armageddon)
Kurt Angle vs. Undertaker (No Way Out)
Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle (3/3)
Chris Benoit vs. Finlay (Judgment Day)
Randy Orton vs. Chris Benoit (1/13)
Randy Orton vs. Rey Mysterio (4/7)
Edge vs. Ric Flair (1/16)
Randy Orton vs. Chris Benoit (1/27)
Funk/Dreamer/Beulah vs. Lita/Edge/Foley (One Night Stand)
Triple H vs. Big Show (New Year's Revolution)

I can't really call this that good of a year though, especially compared to the past 15 years. RAW really only had three or four great matches total if you include the PPVs. ECW had a lot of hidden gems but by October, it was cringey. Smackdown was lots of fun to watch for 2/3 of the year though. But the best matches of 2006 probably wouldn't even make a top five of most other years.


----------



## RATED R RULES (May 27, 2007)

After Mysterio's official departure from WWE I'm wanting to watch some of his WWE stuff in my own mini tribute. So anyone up for giving me what you consider his ten best WWE matches for me to watch then review?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

RATED R RULES said:


> After Mysterio's official departure from WWE I'm wanting to watch some of his WWE stuff in my own mini tribute. So anyone up for giving me what you consider his ten best WWE matches for me to watch then review?


vs. Angle - Summerslam 2002
vs. Brock - Smackdown 03
vs. Chavo - Great American Bash 2004
vs. Eddie - Smackdown 23/6/05
vs. Orton - No Way Out 06
vs. Orton - Smackdown 7/4/06
vs. Jericho - The Bash 09
vs. CM Punk - OTL 10
vs. Jack Swagger - Money In The Bank 2010
vs. Cena - Raw July 2011

Pick of the bunch is the Eddie match, followed by the Swagger match IMO.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rey's best WWE match is vs Eddie Guerrero, Smackdown 6/23/2005 - ****3/4. That was an instant dead set.

From there on, creating a top other 9 is quite difficult. I guess these are good nominees:
vs Chris Jericho, The Bash 2009
vs Eddie Guerrero, Judgment Day 2005
vs Randy Orton, Smackdown 4/7/2006
vs Chris Jericho, Judgment Day 2009
vs Brock Lesnar, Smackdown December 2003
vs John Cena, Raw July 2011
vs Kurt Angle, SummerSlam 2002
vs Randy Orton, No Way Out 2006
vs CM Punk, Over The Limit 2010

There's a bunch of other awesomeness from Rey outside of that. He's had like a bajillion TV gems I'm not quite sure I've ever watched, for example the ones on SD mentioned by Yeah1993 in his 2010 list (vs Punk and vs Swagger, unless the Swagger one was the one where they ended up in the Gulf Of Mexico which is a pretty awesome gem).


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

RATED R RULES said:


> After Mysterio's official departure from WWE I'm wanting to watch some of his WWE stuff in my own mini tribute. So anyone up for giving me what you consider his ten best WWE matches for me to watch then review?


For me it's:

1. Vs Eddie SD! 6/23/05 *****
2. Vs Jericho The Bash 2009 ****1/2
3. Vs Eddie Judgement Day 2005 ****1/2
4. Vs Orton SD! 4/7/06 *****1/2
5. Vs Angle Summerslam 2002 ****1/4
6. Vs Brock Lesnar SD! ****1/4
7. Vs CM Punk OTL 2010 ****1/4
8. Vs Eddie GAB 2005 ****1/4
9. Vs Cena Raw 2011 ****
10. Vs Chavo GAB 2004 ****

There are also his series with Tajiri and Matt Hardy that produced some excellent quality, wish I could find a spot on here for one match from each of those feuds. His NWO 06' bout with Orton is certainly great, as is MitB 2010 vs Swagger. And of course the rest of his series with Jericho was awesome, he also had a few excellent tags, but I limited this list to singles matches only. If we included tags, the SVS 02', NM 02', and Vengeance 2003 tags would all most definitely be on there. I didn't get the Taker or Finlay SD! Matches on here either which is a real bummer. Man, Mysterio is definitely gonna be missed, he was one of a kind. He's a guy I can say with 100% confidence we will never see another like him. He deserved to have a big retirement angle, shame we will neve see it. My dream scenario was a retirement match vs Cesaro at WM. That's what I really wanted to see. Oh well.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Here's what I have:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Totally disagree. That top 10 I just listed for 2006, only 1 match would take a spot on it from 2014, only 3 or 4 from 2013, only 4 or 5 from 2012, maybe 2-3 from 2011, 1 from 2010, 2 from 2009, you get the gist. But that's my preferred style of pro graps, those Finlay/Benoit/Regal/Orton type of matchups. I have a huge bias to that hard hitting, nasty work. And those 2 Angle/Taker matchups are classics, as are those 2 Foley matchups. But yea I'm biased towards those guys and that era, or maybe I should say Im biased against the current way matches are worked and presented in the WWE. Back then you still had guys that worked completely uniquely, nobody else wrestled like Finlay except Finlay, nobody worked like Regal except Regal, nobody worked like Rey, Taker, Benoit, Foley, etc except for those guys. Nowadays, with of course some noteworthy exceptions, I feel like everyone is being over coached to work the same style and it leads to me disliking it more than I rightly should.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Totally disagree. That top 10 I just listed for 2006, only 1 match would take a spot on it from 2014, only 3 or 4 from 2013, only 4 or 5 from 2012, maybe 2-3 from 2011, 1 from 2010, 2 from 2009, you get the gist. But that's my preferred style of pro graps, those Finlay/Benoit/Regal/Orton type of matchups. I have a huge bias to that hard hitting, nasty work. And those 2 Angle/Taker matchups are classics, as are those 2 Foley matchups. But yea I'm biased towards those guys and that era, or maybe I should say Im biased against the current way matches are worked and presented in the WWE. Back then you still had guys that worked completely uniquely, nobody else wrestled like Finlay except Finlay, nobody worked like Regal except Regal, nobody worked like Rey, Taker, Benoit, Foley, etc except for those guys. Nowadays, with of course some noteworthy exceptions, I feel like everyone is being over coached to work the same style and it leads to me disliking it more than I rightly should.


Eh, I guess I see things differently. Nobody worked like Finlay, except for Finlay, Regal, Dave Taylor, Benoit, Gunner Scott, and MVP. Nobody worked like Rey, except for the rest of the cruiserweight division. Nobody wrestled like Undertaker except for Kane, but Taker barely wrestled in 2006 anyways. And I guess as much as I want to tell myself that I care about differentiation in my wrestling, I don't think I really care that much if wrestlers become homogeneous in the ring. WCW in 1992 had next to no differentiation between its wrestlers unless if Vader was there, and that worked to their advantage. ECW ran a variety show in the mid-90s, but it still wasn't that great of an in-ring program. It's nice to see different styles getting fleshed out, but especially with the WWE I don't mind wrestlers working similarly so long as they work well.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> For me it's:
> There are also his series with Tajiri and Matt Hardy that produced some excellent quality, wish I could find a spot on here for one match from each of those feuds.


Rey's stuff with Tajiri is so awesome, but it never had enough time to really be *great*. Still, it's highly recommended if you ever need a bunch of a sub-15 minute stuff to watch (there's 3 matches from late 2003/early 2004 off the top of my head, and they're all about ***1/2).


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rey/Orton rah posted is by far the best Orton match to me. I don't even know what #2 is. I'd call it a top 50 WWE match, as well - maybe top 35ish if I actually thought about it. And, hell, come to think of it, the second best Rey in WWE match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Mysterio's match with Morrison from SD '09 is imo better than a few others mentioned in here thus far. Add that to the list.

He's got some great matches against Henry & Ziggler too, but they wouldn't exactly be top 10 material.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Mysterio's top 10-15 is the perfect set of matches to go through when wanting to have a blast. A wide range of opponents but all very close to each other in quality. So glad Orton went to Smackdown in 2005 b/c it led to him getting to have some feuds and match-ups we might have never got otherwise. (more Taker, more Benoit, Mysterio, Eddie, Angle)



funnyfaces1 said:


> I can't really call this that good of a year though, especially compared to the past 15 years. RAW really only had three or four great matches total if you include the PPVs. ECW had a lot of hidden gems but by October, it was cringey. Smackdown was lots of fun to watch for 2/3 of the year though. But the best matches of 2006 probably wouldn't even make a top five of most other years.


The top 5 best matches of 2006 easily blows away about 9 out of 10 matches from every top 10 since 2008 and easily on par with the best from the years before it. You're once again exaggerating about 05-06 per usual. If there's one thing 2006 has, it's an absolutely untouchable top 5-10 with quality dipping into solid-decent after that.

But on a better note, I'm now one week away from King of the Ring 2000. The Raw/SD episodes two weeks before it were pure awesome fun. From Raw when Linda stacks the odds against "the faction" which leads to a pretty enjoyable Jericho/HHH title match which I believe Yeah93 mentioned the other day and Benoit has a solid title defense against Matt Hardy as well as an entertaining ending with the GTV segment about Kane's identity. SD turns the tables and is still very enjoyable.

Gotta give it to Triple H. The McMahon Helmsley era eclipses anything from 98-99 in terms of being enjoyable for me. I love Austin but his feud with McMahon is nowhere near as epic as WWE and fans make it out to be when watching the weeklies. It's just they had many memorable segments spread out throughout the two year stretch that make it appear to be non-stop epicness every week. I guess the regime is about to end after King of the Ring as I don't know what Vince does after that, Shane becomes Benoit's manage, Commissioner Foley and the Angle-HHH-Steph love triangle is on.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Love the massive tag match leading into KOTR with Taker, Kane and Rock going up against like 20 heels. I couldn't get Raw or SD at the time, but they showed the match in full on HEAT and it was the most epic thing ever :mark:. KOTR 2000 was my first wrestling DVD!!!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> Love the massive tag match leading into KOTR with Taker, Kane and Rock going up against like 20 heels. I couldn't get Raw or SD at the time, but they showed the match in full on HEAT and it was the most epic thing ever :mark:. KOTR 2000 was my first wrestling DVD!!!


What was the date of that one?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

^ 22 June 2000 (Smackdown)

Just started the Raw from that week and Angle comes out to nuclear heat! It never ceases to amaze me just how much heat he gets with so much ease by being a satiric goofball. :lol

Final round of the KOTR before the final 8 in the PPV itself. Should be some interesting matches here. This year is the the reverse of WWE nowadays. It had a dull Road to WM but every other part of the year so far has been filled excitement and fun. It's strange to think Austin is the man that defines Attitude yet the peak of WWF is at the time where he's almost completely absent. 

Also noticed that The Rock has completely dropped the deep, monotone voice by now and although he still wears those awesome $500 shirts (I gotta get something similar to the red one he wore a few times!), he's sticking to his real voice now. Luckily for me, he's still great and if anything about him changes for the worse, I assume it's after he returns in the summer of 2001 with that ugly haircut that looks like a bird took a shit on his head. :lol


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Eh, I guess I see things differently. Nobody worked like Finlay, except for Finlay, Regal, Dave Taylor, Benoit, Gunner Scott, and MVP. Nobody worked like Rey, except for the rest of the cruiserweight division. Nobody wrestled like Undertaker except for Kane, but Taker barely wrestled in 2006 anyways. And I guess as much as I want to tell myself that I care about differentiation in my wrestling, I don't think I really care that much if wrestlers become homogeneous in the ring. WCW in 1992 had next to no differentiation between its wrestlers unless if Vader was there, and that worked to their advantage. ECW ran a variety show in the mid-90s, but it still wasn't that great of an in-ring program. It's nice to see different styles getting fleshed out, but especially with the WWE I don't mind wrestlers working similarly so long as they work well.


See, I think you are just intentionally trying to goad me into an argument now .Kane wrestles just like Undertaker? MVP and Dave Taylor wrestle just like Benoit and Finlay? The only one even close in there is Regal and Finlay, and even then they don't even wrestle that similarly at all. Benoit is a chameleon in that his style changes based on his opponent, he wrestles totally different depending on if he's facing Austin, Jericho, Angle, Finlay, or Eddie.

And WCW in 1992 everyone wrestled the same?! Wow. I didn't realize Rick Rude and Cactus Jack were alike, or Flair and Sting, or Bobby Eaton and Steve Austin. All those guys wrestled completely differently, even Steamboat and Sting, the top white meat baby faces, wrestled totally different styles. I don't know where you are getting this. When you watch a match today, even though the skill level of the wrestlers is still sky high, and even though their characters are different, it just feels like every 10 minute match is paced the exact same way. Everyone uses similar high spots, only their signature "5 Moves" are different, and even then they aren't that dissimilar. It feels like guys are handed the same template based off of how much time their match is getting, and then they have to build their match off of that. Don't get me wrong, it's not like I totally hate the wrestling of today, obviously that's not the case there is still a lot of great matches and I like a lot of the current talent. But I spend every month watching old stuff (ie anything from about 1985-2006) or stuff from Japan, and then at the end of the month I watch the WWE PPVs on the Network. And it kinda sticks out like a sore thumb watching how sterilized the current wrestling is. There are only 3 matches from all of 2014 that I felt like I had to rewatch within the first 2-3 weeks of them airing live, Wyatts/Shield EC, BRYAN/Hunter from WM, and Cesaro/Cena on Raw. That's it. In 2013 there were over a dozen matches between WWE and NXT that I immediately wanted to rewatch. I've rewatched probably 15 matches from 2006 this year alone. I just wish guys were allowed to be themselves in the ring more, wrestle however the fuck the want to without having handcuffs put on them.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lol Cal is gonna love that segment on RAW.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Something interesting happened yesterday. For every since it happened, I've always disliked Cena vs RVD from ONS '06. I'm talking like "I kind of hate this match, what the hell were they thinking w/the way it was worked" etc type feeling. I watched it yesterday on a whim and all of that disappeared. It wasn't nearly as one sided as I remember (b/c the story of Cena out of his element, but killing RVD for what I believed was the majority felt very dumb) both worked hard in it, both took some gnarly bumps, Cena had a good showing during a year some wouldn't say he found his peak yet, & it managed to contain both its own "big" WWE match feel, along w/the identity of ECW at the same time. I'm not saying it's not this great match I was so blinded by for so long, but it's good. And I'm now a fan. Interesting how stuff like this works. And glad it went towards the positive, rather than viewing something and it not holding up.

Orton for the first half of 2006 is godly. What a guy.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Awesome Undertaker like dive by Reigns tonight on RAW. Decent little match as well.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I did not like that RAW main event at all. Reigns sacrificing any sense of selling and storytelling that he once had in order to try out more moves is a step back. And he looked so scared out there. Did not bother communicating with the crowd or hype up his hope spots such as those sleeper holds. Just a terrible match that was made worse when you consider that the crowd didn't care one bit about anything that happened. I liked the Reigns/Rollins match right before NoC, but other than that they haven't had good chemistry together.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Not much in the way of good wrestling tonight, but I'll be damned if RAW didn't have a few seriously awesome segments. The Daily Show with Rollins & Stewart, Steph shooting on Cena (needs to be seen), and Heyman going HAM on the mic were all absolutely fantastic. Even the Wyatt thing was enjoyable. Bryan vs. Harper was fun because it looked like Harper actually killed him. 

Looks like we're getting Barrett vs. Ambrose vs. Harper vs. Truth vs. Ziggler vs. Bryan in the Ladder mach for the IC Title. Should be some pretty crazy shit. That leaves Sheamus, Ryback, or Mizdow as viable candidates to win the battle royal. Somehow someway, Cena vs. Rusev will happen. Same goes for Orton vs. Rollins (which should be fantastic). The card really isn't shaping up all that badly. Lesnar vs. Reigns will certainly be interesting.


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

Love all the Rey praise in here as most dumbasses in this forum seem to nonstop bash him not realizing he's a fucking legitimate GOAT.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WM looks like trash. Shame they've done next to nothing to make folk want to care. There's interest from me for Brock vs Reigns & naturally, to see Undertaker on the show. That's all I got.

Watched about half of ECW November To Remember 1997 right now. Good grief the booking on that show is shenanigan central. I'm having fun, but it's humorous. Complete opposite of what Hardcore Heaven 1997 was - which ended up being an awesome show w/less "nonsense" & more embracing of a style that made ECW, well, "ECW".


----------



## OldschoolHero (Sep 1, 2008)

Just watched Great American Bash 06 and honestly not a bad match on the show. The tag opener was fun, Hardy/Helms was solid. I enjoyed Batistas rageout on Kennedy. Also, thank god they subbed Show in for Khali in the punjabi prison match. Turned out to be way better then I thought it could be. Even the main event was fun even though the Chavo turn was highly predictable. Oh and Regal/Finlay was fun and kepth the crowd interested even if it was two heels. 7/10 overall


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

I have no idea what the main event is but reading "main event....Chavo" is just fucking funny.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Main event Chavo sounds like a good way of talking about his performance from WCW Greed, tbhayley. He looked like a million bucks. _(plug for you, Jheri, btw.)_


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Looking forward to the IC title match and the battle royal at Mania. Really liking the build to the IC title match and there's some great talent in there. The Miz/Mizdow stuff is enough to make me look forward to the battle royal.

Everything else can fuck off though. Was looking forward to Rollins/Orton, Cena/Rusev and Taker/Wyatt but the build for all three matches has been awful and completely killed my interest.

Dont get me started on Sting/HHH or Reigns/Brock and the divas can fuck off.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Man, it would be hard for WWE to make me LESS interested in the card we are getting for WM 31 than they already have. Outside of the Lesnar/Reigns match, and getting to see Taker again, i'll be goddamned if there isn't one single other thing I'm legitimately looking forward to. I mean, don't get me wrong Rusev/Cena is a great matchup, one I'd normally be interested in, but on a WrestleMania card? That's the gist of what I'm feeling for most of the matches, everything else seems like "B" PPV material at best, not worthy of the big show. Then again, since they aren't really dependent on the PPV market anymore, I guess they have no reason to really go above and beyond to make WrestleMania seem spectacular. If it wasn't for Undertaker appearing, there is absolutely nothing that would make me think this is anything other than a random PPV. And my interest in Sting/Hunter could really not be lower. 

Also, I'm loathing this idea of a "MitB style" ladder match for the IC title. I don't want to see Daniel Bryan in that crap. I'd honestly rather see Bryan/Sheamus WM v3.0 than this. At Least we know Sheamus/Bryan would be good, as opposed to this.

Okay I'm done whining now. I guess I should remember I wasn't thrilled with the prospects of the WM 30 card and that show ended up really being great. Maybe I should just hold out hope the matches will at least be entertaining even if I don't care about them.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Rusev is something I struggle to find interest in after their match from Fast Lane was so poor. Mostly Cena was at fault for that, but it wasn't like Rusev did a spectacular job carrying him, either. Or even did at all; b/c he didn't. Did sell the match well w/his facials though. So it wasn't _completely_ hollow.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

I really don't see the reason why the IC title match is getting so much criticism? 

Sure some of the guys in it(Bryan and Ambrose)deserve much better but as far as I'm concerned it is making the best of a bad situation and for the first time in years the belt is feeling somewhat relevant and and we might get an Ambrose/Bryan feud out of it. Should be an awesome match too.


----------



## BruiserKC (Mar 14, 2010)

It seems to me that they are really lazy this year when it comes to booking. We're going to see at least two re-matches from Fastlane in the form of Cena-Rusev and the Rhodes Brothers. In the past, they would have gone out of their way to make WM look spectacular and fresh. Now, WM might seem like just another PPV. 

Anyway, I was hoping Cena would snap last night. When he slapped on the STF on Axel, have him not release the hold. Or, when the Russian flag came down from the rafters have him pull it down and use it to shine his shoes or wipe his feet.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :lol Cal is gonna love that segment on RAW.


What segment?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Miz making a fool out of himself and getting laughed at by the entire locker room after that commercial.


----------



## looper007 (Dec 20, 2014)

Ryan193 said:


> I really don't see the reason why the IC title match is getting so much criticism?
> 
> Sure some of the guys in it(Bryan and Ambrose)deserve much better but as far as I'm concerned it is making the best of a bad situation and for the first time in years the belt is feeling somewhat relevant and and we might get an Ambrose/Bryan feud out of it. Should be an awesome match too.


It's sad to see some fans are happy to accept WWE's poor booking

I think the Criticism for it is well deserving cause it won't lead to anything Ryan, it's just WWE trying to make up for some poor booking for this WM for Bryan, Ambrose and Ziggler. 

Will it lead to IC title been like it was in the 80's and 90's and early 00's, No sadly whoever wins it will be held down by it and whoever loses it will look bad coming out of it. I don't think it be an awesome match, it won't get the time and be very spotty. But different strokes for different folks.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

I'm not happy to accept WWE's 'poor booking'. I've cancelled the network and watched about 2 hours worth of WWE programming(outwith NXT) in about 6 months.

I think this is good booking, everyone wants the IC title to mean something again. If Bryan wins it it'll be elevated just by him having it.

I'll probably be proved wrong but I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Miz making a fool out of himself and getting laughed at by the entire locker room after that commercial.


Really? (See what I did there?) Gotta check it out, although it's not something that it's new. It's been happening since 2006 8*D.

But credit where credit is due, Miz, for all the shit he's given, has had some genuinely good, really good, great even matches in his career. Obvious standout is the epic vs Bryan @ NOC 2010, but I'm pretty sure he's had a bunch of other really good singles matches before. I can recall the few ones vs Ziggler last year, vs Cesaro @ EC 2013, vs Cena @ Rock's B-day 2011, vs Lawler @ EC 2011 and vs Mysterio 2011. Not sure if more beyond that but yeah.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Okay I'm done whining now. I guess I should remember I wasn't thrilled with the prospects of the WM 30 card and that show ended up really being great. Maybe I should just hold out hope the matches will at least be entertaining even if I don't care about them.


I know this isn't what you are saying, but I don't think this card has a shot to beat 30. You had imo a quite solidly built up Bryan vs Authority/HHH/title chase heading in that at the ppv progressed beautifully and concluded beautifully the ring results ending up being a storytelling masterpiece most have at ****1/2 some at ****1/4, followed by a suspensful triple threat that was great too in entertainment. The Andre battle royal that year was actually built up and gave a signature win. Lesnar/Taker pen stab aside had a horrendous build and the match was quite subpar, but one of the more historic wrestlemania moments did come out of this. Bray vs Cena was pretty damn good in ring and arguably a solid build as well. 30 also had the stellar opening of Austin/Hogan/Rock in the same ring and the infamous Hogan botch. 

Juxtapose that with this year: 31 has an extremely forced and I'm sorry but somewhat boring Sting/HHH feud, Wyatt has been working his ass off to build this "new phenom vs mortal Taker" feud, but with Taker not there until Mania the build isn't what it could be, THE MOST OVER GUY SINCE EDDIE GUERRERO MAYBE AUSTIN/ROCK IS IN AN UNIMPORTANT LADDER MATCH FOR A TITLE THAT WE ALL KNOW WON"T MEAN SHIT AFTERWARDS BARRING A CENA UNIFICATION (caps for emphasis). Furthermore, this Andre battle royal has had zero buildup to it, the man slated to main event and beat the beast is getting in some cities slightly hostile reactions and many zero or next to it four weeks from Mania in the case of last night's complete lack of reaction while it is now a near certainty that Lesnar is gone and apparently pissed off; unlike last year the Andre Battle Royal is getting no build and kind of has been a punchline ala last night. The only build I have legitimately enjoyed this year is Rollins/Orton(yes they backtracked, but the subtleties especially by Orton recently have been MONEY).

As usual when it rolls around, I'll need my fix and be somewhat excited just by principal of it being Mania, but really all I am intrigued about this time around is Wyatt/Taker, how much of a trainwreck will Lesnar/Reigns be and Orton/Rollins. The ladder match should be fun to watch too, but i'm not interested in it or really care. This mania has felt like Sting debut aside, they are saving all the cards to make their hands at 32, which is what I expected. This could be a solid Mania matchwise, or this could be the worst Mania since hell if not 22 Wrestlemania 2000.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Worst since 22? 22 is one of the best WM's ever imho. You could've said 23 instead. 16/2000 sounds better tho.

And yeah, this year's WM is giving me such a gigantic dejá vu of WM 27 - the sacrificial lamb thrown away just for sake of keeping all the aces for next year. If you didn't get that, this WM is being wasted because they don't wanna throw the big bombs before they have to sell 100k tickets at 32. Which, given by that time Reigns'll be the champion, unless he becomes Austin level of over, is more than likely not gonna happen. Taker/Sting isn't drawing that many people in. And if it's gonna have the same quality as 27, it's gonna suck. Hard.

Lesnar/Reigns interests me because of the crowd reaction, Orton/Rollins interests me because that actually has a chance of being good and Taker/Wyatt interests me because Taker's presence is gonna be intriguing as hell, after the shamefully dissapointing match w/Brock last year. Rest is bleh. MITB IC Title match feels like lazy filler, and it pisses me off how five of the best talents in the company (and R-Truth) - including THE best talent in the company and the fucking world, as well as the most over one - will be wasted in a complete throwaway just because they couldn't bother to kill off the MITB PPV and have the IC Title mean something other than being the prize for a spotfest. Andre Battle Royal II is pointless after they failed to capitalize on Cesaro; Cena/Rusev II I have no interest on, especially after the predictable outcome of Cena winning; Sting/HHH I'm just apathetic for.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Taking MITB away from Mania and making it its own PPV has been a huge success.

Thoughts on the Samoa Joe rumors? Looks like another Chris Hero situation in the making.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

He's past his heyday, I'd imagine, but it still interests me in what he could bring to the table with a reinvigorated mindset. There was a couple of motivated Joe on the Indies matches that took place last year and he looked a lot better than his recent time in TNA so it isn't as if it's all doom and gloom for him. He's still going to be the biggest lost opportunity of his generation, but finally seeing him in a WWE ring is a long overdue moment. I'd have preferred 2005/2006 Joe hanging with Finlay/Rey/Regal (we're never going to get Rey/Joe ) but Joe/Zayn may just be close enough.




EDIT: FWIW, I believe Joe's indy dates stop towards the end of April, and coincides almost identically with NXT's taping dates.


EDIT 2: JOE/CALLIHAN PLS


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Quick Raw review:

Miz was great. While his ring-work is still a little basic and generic for me, he is dynamite in his role, atm. Probably the most outright hated heel since Vickie. The Niagra commercial was actually funny for the right reasons. 

Axelmania is too damn funny - "Don't change that channel!" ahahaha - Curt, you slay me. The Cena thing was almost backfire, as Axel was probably more over last night than at any other point in his career. 

As a side note, I'm actually a fan of the WWE undercard. They have a nice array of "fun" characters, who really excel in their role.

The Daily Show w/Seth Rollins was hilarious. The refraining dig at New Jersey was really funny. John looked like maybe it would be rough, but quickly got into his part, and just smashed it. I'm surprised I read so many in the Raw discussion who failed to understand Stewart's comments regarding Rollins/Reigns. "OMG Stewart just berried Reigns!" Uh, no he didn't, and how did/will you pass high school? Great segment - best celeb guest appearance in forever - and I liked Stewart's backstage interview as well. Great to see a mark know how to work!

Bryan/Harper should've had more time. Bryan, channeling his inner-Misawa, got Half-Nelson DUNKED and I think it took him a minute to recover:lol We used to call that the "Hi Mom!" back during the n64 video game days. Harper looked like a beast - attacking Bryan at the bell looking like Brody and putting emphasis on everything - chucked Bryan _OUT_ the ring. Was actually pretty good for the 4-6 minutes of it that wasn't interrupted by commercials

The ending was interesting for me - teasing Bryan's involvement in the ladder match, but not confirming it. I actually think surprise opponent has a good chance of coming through. And sure, it'll just probably be Sheamus, but that works much better for me than a ladder match. Because fuck that ladder match. Bryan has nothing to add to crazy spot-fests like that. Singles matches - that's where Bryan can give the most. Would he elevate the title? Irrelevant. Look, if Harper/Cesaro/Somebody Else was in the middle of a dominant reign, then yeah - it would elevate the title if he were to feud w/Bryan. But that's not happening. No serious player has held that belt and made a run of it for a few years now. A cluster w/Bryan isn't gonna help. Was still hoping against hope for Angle/Bryan, but that died when Angle signed the new deal w/TNA. Jesus, that match was right there. Wrestlemania-worthy and everything. FUCK.

I didn't watch the ME. Not interested, thank you. Tekken Tag 2/Better Call Saul w/wifey and it's lights out.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Joe V Zayn/Neville/Owens :mark: Would like to see him get a push on the main roster too but you know they'd do something ridiculous like calling him Samoan Reigns and make him Roman's bodyguard.

He's on Talk Is Jericho this Friday.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm trying to be as positive as I can when it comes to Mania this year. I've come to terms with the fact that Bryan will not be in a major match. That really sucks, but the IC Title Ladder match should be pretty fucking awesome. The build is incredibly stupid, but give them a little bit of credit for at least doing SOMETHING with the belt and giving us a worthwhile math to look forward to. I expect Ambrose or Ziggler to have their Wrestlemania moment and win the match, but those two added in with Bryan & Harper should make for some crazy bumps.

Orton vs. Rollins is getting really interesting. That's what I'm looking forward to most on the entire card. Taker vs. Wyatt will be cool as hell because of the two characters and because they're keeping Taker off TV all the way until Mania. That crowd is gonna BLOW UP when he walks out. I have no problem with HHH/Sting. Sting at this age is not in any dream match scenario for me so for him just to have one match with the company against the guy who somewhat runs it is A-ok for me. I think a Street Fight between the two could be a lot of fun. Hunter can still bump and Sting's presence will be cool. The build has been pretty good, honestly.

Lesnar vs. Reigns and Cena vs. Rusev both have potential to be good/great matches, but I'm not sure how either will go. Cena will likely put his career on the line to convince Rusev to have the match. It'll probably be non-title. Heyman has been GOATING on the mic and it's still BROCK LESNAR, so that's enough for me to at least think that big man slugfest can be enjoyable. I personally think Orton will go over Rollins and Seth will somehow cash in by the end of the night. Keep in mind he lost twice last week on television and was humiliated by Jon Stewart.

The last two matches being the Battle Royal and the Divas Tag Match (Bellas vs. AJ & Paige) is plenty enough for me to think it'll be a good show. I expect some kind of Tag Title match or Goldust vs. Stardust on the preshow, but they may just put all of them in battle royal.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Taking MITB away from Mania and making it its own PPV has been a huge success.
> 
> Thoughts on the Samoa Joe rumors? Looks like another Chris Hero situation in the making.


I hope they're not true. I'd like to see him stick with ROH and indy bookings. If they bring him in, they'll need to whip him into shape and I'm not sure if he's motivated enough for that. We'll see though. He has indy booking all the way through April and returned at ROH's 13th Anniversary to stare down Jay Briscoe.

------------------------------------

Did anyone catch Smackdown last week? Is Bryan/Barrett or the 6-man worthy of going back and watching?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Taking MITB away from Mania and making it its own PPV has been a huge success.
> 
> Thoughts on the Samoa Joe rumors? Looks like another Chris Hero situation in the making.


Yes it has, but MITB still belongs best at WM in all honesty.

And unless he carries himself like Hero did, I can only see good for Joe being in the company. Seeing him vs guys like Zayn, Owens, Balor and Crowe can only rule.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

To be honest I haven't seen one single Samoa Joe match since 2008. His Lockdown match vs Angle is the most recent thing I've seen from him. WWE totally missed the boat on him in 2005. He could have been a main event caliber guy had they brought him in fresh off his classic series with Punk and that unbelievable match with Kobashi. 2005-2006 Samoa Joe vs Cena, HBK, Benoit, Mysterio, Orton, Finlay, Regal, Taker, Big Show, etc would have truly been awesome. I just don't know what he can honestly offer in 2015. I can almost guarantee he's being brought in solely for NXT. I really can't imagine Vince having him on Raw. That said, if he comes in and totally dedicates himself to getting in shape and really has a good attitude about it, I'd absolutely love to watch him wrestle. He's not ancient, guys, he's 35. Steve Austin was still killing it at 35, as was Mick Foley although granted that was just in small doses. Mark Henry was still one of the best in the business at 35. Vader was still amazing at 35. Cena is like 37 and in 2013 when he was 35 he had probably his best year from an in ring perspective. It's all going to be on Joe and how hard he works and how good his attitude is. His age does not preclude him from delivering at a top flight level in the ring, and I've read he's friends with Cena so maybe John can be his work out buddy and help really drive him to be great again.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Joe is a motivational thing. If he can remotely bring a smidge of what he was in his prime, he can work for a brief period. I say brief b/c guys like Rhyno & Kendrick are clearly to aid NXT at being it's own "brand" now, rather than sticking around for developmental sake. Joe would be in the same area if he were to be given the chance. Doubt Trips would have the big stink over his weight, as long as he would go. NXT is seen in a different light now & he'd be more about appeasing the market/specific people who watch, over the former norms that were once held ideal. _(well, they still are, but again, Joe probably wouldn't be in the same boat as the rest of the roster)_


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*King of the Ring 2000:*

Rikishi vs Chris Benoit - ★★★
Val Venis vs Eddie Guerrero - ★★¾
Crash Holly vs Bull Buchanan - ★
Kurt Angle vs Chris Jericho - ★★★
Edge & Christian vs Too Cool vs Hardy Boy*z* vs T&A - ★★½
Rikishi vs Val Venis - ★★
Kurt Angle vs Crash Holly - ★½
Pat Patterson vs Gerald Brisco - 0
DX vs Dudley Boyz - ★½
Kurt Angle vs Rikishi - ★★¼
The Rock, Kane & Undertaker vs Triple H, Vince & Shane McMahon - ★★½

- Benoit and Rikishi got so little time and still did as much as you could've expected in that timeframe.

- Other than Angle/Jericho, the rest of the KOTR matches were just there and ranged from poor to decent. Just atrocious booking. Why the hell did Venis and Crash make it to the final four while Benoit, Jericho and Eddie were eliminated first round? Also Bull Buchanan looks like a mix of Ryback and Zeus. :lmao

- The evening gown match was just comedy gold. But they started to run the thing to the ground after about a minute. But make no mistake about it, I was in tears by the time the entrances were over. :lmao After that when they started to actually "wrestle", it was a trainwreck that Crash Holly thankfully saved us from. Also points go to the guy with the "His name is Robert Paulson" sign. :lol JR saying "What has this business come to?" made me chuckle too because this is WWE's product in its prime and they still had stupid shit like this that may have some comedy value but are ultimately pointless waste of time. 

- Road Dogg and X-Pac are so stale and worthless at this point. Dunno why they went over at all. They are unover as fuck and only Road Dogg's introduction gets any real reaction beyond the "X-Pac sucks" chants. lol'd @ Devon resting his face comfortably on Tori's crotch. :lol

- Main event tag match was okay. Not a disaster but nothing memorable either. Thank God, at last this is the end of Triple H as champion for nearly two years. Was getting bored of it because he's held the damn thing for 90% of the post-Russo period starting after SummerSlam 99. Now it's on to Fully Loaded and I couldn't be more excited. :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Main event Chavo sounds like a good way of talking about his performance from WCW Greed, tbhayley. He looked like a million bucks. _(plug for you, Jheri, btw.)_


I'm actually not fond of the Helms matches. :lol SuperBrawl Revenge, though. Chavo out-shined Rey Mysterio. Yeah.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Did anyone catch Smackdown last week? Is Bryan/Barrett or the 6-man worthy of going back and watching?


I only half-paid attention but wish I paid full attention to the six man because it was really hot by the time they started doing wild finish stuff. Seemed like a good time.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Steph shooting on Cena (needs to be seen)


A little while ago, there was a dirt sheet report that said that the WWE would basically make Cena look like a doofus on tv, as payback for him trying to shop around a reality show without their knowledge. 

When I saw Steph's promo, I thought back to that report, and realized that that must be what's going on. That stuff about him needing the WWE & him not being the WWE, sounded like something they would have said to him behind the scenes after they found out about his business dealings.

Seems like even Cena isn't above a little McMahon family humbling.

I loved his facial expressions, when he looked like he was quietly simmering while Axel did his thing. Kind of heelish.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I'm actually not fond of the Helms matches. :lol SuperBrawl Revenge, though. Chavo out-shined Rey Mysterio. Yeah.


Didn't think you'd be super crazy - ha - on the match(es), but at least thought you'd get a kick out of Chavo's work from Greed. :evil

Best match of the three 2001 PPVs is vs Mysterio & he does look top notch. He ruled when he got that final singles push in the end of WCW.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Pineapple Jheri*, is this the Rock/HHH/Angle triple threat match from Raw that you've put over a few times in the past? I know they have another Raw triple threat so I'm asking just to be sure. (not that it makes a difference since I'll get to that one as well as SummerSlam soon) Just watched it and it's great stuff. Might go as far as ★★★¾ for it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The date for the threeway I like I remember being 6/26/00. That video says 6/29/00 but it'd have to be the same one, I'm guessing. 



Hayley Seydoux said:


> Didn't think you'd be super crazy - ha - on the match(es), but at least thought you'd get a kick out of Chavo's work from Greed. :evil
> 
> Best match of the three 2001 PPVs is vs Mysterio & he does look top notch. He ruled when he got that final singles push in the end of WCW.


I don't remember Chavo in the Greed match in particular, so I might like it/him on a re-watch.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ordered The Shield Blu Ray today, after finally getting a Blu Ray player (through my PS4). Will be my first wrestling Blu Ray, couldn't resist this one even though I think I have all of the matches on one comp or another.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I actually remembered I had a SHIELD project going on, which I gave up on... much like the Foley one.... or something else I don't even remember I started  But Goddamn, SHIELD. Just... SHIELD. I rewatched Ambrose & Rollins/Real Americans from last year, one of favorite TV matches of 2014. Still up there as I remember it. Just badass stuff altogether. Why is Ambrose getting the midcard geek treatment is so beyond me tho.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:banderas dat steph promo on cena 

axelmania :banderas


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

That promo with Steph and Cena was good. I would love a Cenaless Mania. She makes a great point that Cena would be nothing without WWE. Well, he would probably be selling insurance in Boston. But far from a star. I do love how much of an Andre mark Steph is. 

This Cena quote hahahahahaha.......

"Miz did it. Fandango did it. Adam Rose did it. That's not exactly like Murderer's Road. I think you got some spots for me. So I'm in."


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> That promo with Steph and Cena was good. I would love a Cenaless Mania. She makes a great point that Cena would be nothing without WWE. Well, he would probably be selling insurance in Boston. But far from a star. I do love how much of an Andre mark Steph is.
> 
> This Cena quote hahahahahaha.......
> 
> "Miz did it. Fandango did it. Adam Rose did it. That's not exactly like Murderer's Road. I think you got some spots for me. So I'm in."


Cena would have made it in some other facet of sports or entertainment. To think otherwise is ridiculous. Maybe not to the level of where he is in pro wrestling, but he would still be a big name somewhere doing something.

Insane work ethic + natural physical ability and charisma = success :fact


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The manner in which Steph handled Cena was in retaliation for him seeking outside employment in producing/creating TV shows (apparently without their foreknowledge nor consent). 


Cena's partnership also wishes to make Cena the flagship star on his own reality show, which would cause some divide between Total Divas, WWE and Cena. I understand that you don't wish to lose your money tree, and him finding employment through other means does hurt that revenue, but Cena is currently in a limbo state in the WWE universe. He's slowly becoming a veteran added attraction and less and less the focal point of the brand. With Reigns being rushed into the #1 spot where does that leave Cena? You need him for his merchandise, of course, but he cannot remain on weekly television in that capacity as he either has to continue winning in high amounts (leaving fans to question why he isn't thrown into the title hunt) or he has to suffer defeats/non-finishes which hurts his stock. Keeping his name relevant in mainstream media via other avenues seems the smartest strategy, and I assume that's how Cena sees it, as well. Starring in his own reality show may be one thing, but transitioning from megalithic wrestler to producer would be a great arc for Total Divas, in of itself. Being under contract means Vince can veto any outside work Cena wishes to undertake but he needs to start being more open and less vindictive (far removed from his current cut-my-nose self) in order to succeed. That contract also means obligation to wrestle, which potentially cuts off movie opportunities for fear of injury. I don't doubt Cena has immense loyalty and passion for his company, but every man has a breaking point, surely.

Safe money is good money, but WWE should have been focusing on this aspect a lot sooner than they seemingly have (the title picture for RR 2014 was Cena/Orton and look how that turned out). Transitioning the face of the company to a back-up role isn't just a fly-by-night booking move. In a perfect world, there would be guys ready to take his place; the gap between Bryan's support and merchandise sales would have been remedied and the stars of tomorrow that seemed to be born in 2013 wouldn't be after thoughts barely scraping matches in C-level programmes. Equally, they may be revitalising the US & Intercontinental titles through Cena/Bryan at Mania as a de facto bargaining chip for both the crowd and Cena's star power. While that would help add meaning to their midcard, again it must be noted of how poorly built the rest of the wrestlers currently are. They do have some guys they can press the reset button on (Cesaro/Sheamus/Ambrose) but they've used that button far too many times for us to probably care enough for it to work. Bryan fans would seemingly be placated with that angle, as it gives him both purpose and the opportunity to have lengthy, "workrate" match-ups but the issue of Cena's star power is still pushing through. Winning the US title may seem like a backstep in his career, and while he will get a main event opportunity when the matter arises, losing out to lesser weighted guys like Barret, in the mean time, would definitely hurt him.

I don't doubt that they will go on without Cena, if he were to leave, and that may finally be the much needed catalyst for change, but that's a whole heap of eggs in a basket to throw away.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

@Flux Even though I may absolutely detest his character, that is the deadbang reason why I have the utmost respect for Cena. He's an absolute workhorse, he breathes, eats and shits WWE, pretty much literally. Too bad that only every now and then he feels like putting on an absolutely kick-ass match, even though it's widely known that he's more than capable of it. But, oh well, if I were somebody from the company, I guess I had no reason to complain.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

"Steph emasculated the biggest babyface of the last decade on national television. Great segment."

u wot

w
o
t


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Backlash 2007*

Man, Backlash always used to be such a STACKED show, didn't it? Maybe because they needed a good reason for people to spend another *however much PPV's cost* usually in the same month as WM?


*The Hardy Boys Vs Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch - World Tag Team Championship Match*

Alright, we start off with what should be a pretty sweet tag match on paper!

Love me some Hardy tag matches, and Cade & Murdoch felt like such an "old school" tag team which is something I always liked about em.

Matt and Jeff are on a roll early on, getting a prolonged babyface shine period compared to your average tag match. And it's a ton of fun.

Then the power and BRAWLINGNESS(c) of their opponents sends them on the defence.

Cade & Murdoch are pretty awesome at just beating the fuck out of anyone in the ring with them. Like I said, they feel like a real old school tag team, and this really is something I'd expect to see in the mid 80's with The Rockers against Dick Murdoch and... whoever the fuck teamed up with him (seriously, how many partners did DICK have lol?).

Hot tag feels a little cold, which is somewhat surprising giving it's THE HARDY BOYS. Maybe just more disappointing, I dunno.

JEFF JUST DIED~! He was doing the old "jump off of Matt into the opponent in the corner", but Cade moved Murdoch out of the way and Jeff crashed and burned HARD.

CANADIAN DESTRO... SUNSET FLIP~! :lmao

Finish kinda comes out of nowhere too... huh.

Well this wasn't quite what I was hoping tbh. Hot tag and finish fell flat for me, but everything else was really good. Just could have been better in those couple of places.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


UMAGA IS BREATHING HEAVY~!


*Melina Vs Mickie James - WWE Women's Championship Match*

MELINA :mark: FAP FAP FAP.

MICKIE JAMES FAP FAP FAP :mark:.

I think I might actually watch this match, it could be good!

No seriously, it could be good .

Both women are showcasing their WRESTLING SKILLS early on, and they are both pretty good at it. Melina isn't someone I'd always praise for her in ring work (she's a tremendous manager on the outside though), but she looks great here. She fakes getting something in her eye then fucking BLASTS Mickie in the face with an elbow :mark:.

Man, how often does Mickie take a big bump off the ropes to the floor? Not often you see the female wrestlers in WWE do anything like that. Most struggle to take a decent bump off the fucking apron lol.

MELINA USING HER LEGS :mark:. She's got a fucking FULL NELSON applied using her LEGS. I think that might be the best thing I've ever seen.

MICKIE AND MELINA BOTH DO THE SPLITS THEN HAVE A BACK AND FORTH PUNCH BATTLE :mark:. Ok, THAT might be the best thing I've ever seen!!!

SCORPION DEATH DROP BY MELINA~! And she retains her title!

Yup, this was indeed a good match . Glad I watched it.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


Maria interviews Edge, then pulls out some paper from between her tits :lmao. Someone asked her to ask Edge the question "how did you win your first title", and of course Edge talks about cashing in MITB and whatnot. Turns out that MIIIIIISSSSSSTEEEEERRRR KEEEENEEEDDDDYYYYYY. KEEEEEEEEEEEENEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDYYYYYYYYYY was the one that asked about it. He's the current MITB holder at this time btw. For people who forgot. 


*MVP Vs Chris Benoit - WWE United States Championship Match*

Huh, forgot this match existed. Only remember them having the WM match (which was decent at best) and then their 2/3 falls match (which was garbage). Is this the one people tend to call good? I fucking hope so.

JBL calls MVP the future of this sport. If only he could see into the future . Anyone else remember the reports going around the interwebs around this time about MVP? Saying how people backstage respected and liked him because he would watch and study tapes of matches from the likes of Benoit and Eddie etc so he could learn as much as possible. Shame he didn't learn anything 8*D.

:lmao these two guys had a match on SD days before? Sure, MVP walked out on the match but still... come on. Are we gonna get Lesnar Vs Reigns on Smackdown before WM? People would probably prefer that to them having a match at WM, actually. Fuck those people. I kinda wanna see them go at it. Not expecting some great match, but hey, there is a good chance it won't suck. Unlike this match which has a high chance of sucking because MVP is awful. He's totally the worst Power Ranger.

Only thing I've enjoyed in the first 5 or so minutes is an overhead belly to belly suplex by MVP.

GERMAN SUPLEXES~!

MVP does some stuff.

GERMAN SUPLEXES~!

MVP does some stuff.

GERMAN SUPLEXES~!

MVP does some stuff.

Small package from Benoit. Match is over.

Well. This wasn't bad or anything. Wasn't great either. Just... there. I could easily live with myself if I never saw or spoke about this match ever again lol.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


Orton tries to make a move on Cena.


*Bobby Lashley Vs Vince McMahon, Shane McMahon & Umaga - ECW Championship Match*

Well Lashley manages to not kill himself in the first minute, so that's good . Fuck me though, he lifts and throws Shane around like he's nothing. Wonder how powerful the guy actually is. We need a wrestler's version of World's Strongest Man. Get Lesnar, Henry, Big Show, Cena, Lashley, Kane, Cesaro and a couple of others and have them running with anvils and lifting Atlas Stones! Hell, some wrestlers have competed in the competitions in the past! Billy Graham, Ken Patera and Jerry Blackwell lol. Oh and Henry won the first Arnold Strongman competition, but I'll still claim that was set up for him to win.

So as we get a few minutes into this match, Lashley is still dominating and making Shane and Umaga look useless as he tries his best to get to Vince.

The numbers end up costing Lashley control of the match, and now the SAMOAN BULLDOZER can maul Big Black Boabby Lashley.

:lmao Shane controlling Lashley with an MMA submission hold. Does Lashley still fight btw? Has he gone up against anyone worth a damn yet? How about the first ever triple threat MMA match? Punk Vs Lashley Vs Lesnar!!! 

BEAR HUG~! GIVE THIS MATCH A MILLION STARS~!

WWE ban Piledrivers and shit because they are dangerous, but don't do anything about Bear Hugs? Do they have any idea how dangerous they are to the RATINGS?!??!

Shane is looking awesome in this match. He tags in after the bear hug and a Samoan Drop, then just fucking unloads with forearms onto Bobby's back and he looks more brutal and stiffer than the rest of the roster at the time bar like Finlay, Regal and Benoit.

Lashley's come back is nice, even if the set up was escaping a booooring rest hold. Shane continues to impress me with his bumping ability.

SPEAR TO UMAGA~!

LASHLEY GETS HOLD OF VINCE~! Powerslam coming up and... Shane grabs his leg to stop him, and Umaga decks him.

ECW TITLE TO THE FACE~! Shane could win the match, but Vince wants to be the ECW champion!!!

1...2... KICK OUT~!

Well, if the title to the face doesn't do it, the Samoan Bulldozer will!

SPASH FROM THE ROPES~!

1...2... KICK OUT~!

Lashley does not want to lose the ECW title!

Vince sends Umaga back in to finish the job once and for all. 

ANOTHER SPLASH~!

Vince tags in, makes another cover and...

THE NEW ECW CHAMPION... VINCENT KENNEDY MCMAHON!!!

A mostly fun match. Shane ruled and Lashley was pretty good too. Umaga was fine, and Vince was just there to get the win .

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


Joey Styles going mental on commentary and then Vince running into a bunch of ECW originals and mocking them might be the greatest thing I've ever seen. Since that double splits spot earlier in the show... .


*The Undertaker Vs Batista - World Heavyweight Championship Last Man Standing Match*

:mark:.

First move is a boot to the fucking FACE from Undertaker :mark:. They ain't gonna waste time locking up here, not when it's a Last Man Standing match!!!

Undertaker is going into this match injured, and would be the injury that causes him to drop the title and have surgery . If it wasn't for the bicep injury, he was apparently supposed to get a lengthy title run. Would have been awesome .

Batista almost drops 'Taker while attempting to power him up for a running powerslam. Thankfully he is able to still bring him down to the mat with a slam and not drop him on his head .

Anyone else think the Last Man Standing match needs to be... re-worked? I mean, we REALLY don't need those count attempts from a fucking slam, do we? EVERYONE knows it's gonna take at least a finishing move to end the match, and on a PPV between two monsters like this, it's gonna take something HUGE. Is it a Texas Death Match where you have to pin your opponent before the referee will start the 10 count? That at least makes sense. If you can pin em, then you might have a good chance of keeping them down for a full 10 count. A slam 2 minutes into the match ain't gonna do SHIT.

Every year around this time (it's March for those who read this after it's posted lol), rumours circulate about Undertaker's condition and it's usually something along the lines of "he's fucking dead" but it turns out "he's in great shape for a guy at 50 who has been wrestling for as long as he has". Point being, how on EARTH is this man still able to walk? The crazy bumps he takes into the steps knees first is insane. Foley already has trouble moving around because of the shit he did, and Undertaker can't be far behind, right?

The referee for this match is MICKIE HENSON... who USED to be called Mickie Jay, but they changed his name cos it sounded too similar to Mickie James :lmao.

Anyway, the match lol. Yeah it's great. It's 2 heavyweights battling for the WHC. Their WM match was spectacular. Their SD cage match is often forgotten because it didn't happen on PPV, and that's a shame because it's awesome. Cyber Sunday is my personal favourite of their series. Hell in a Cell is still to come. And here we have their LMS match, and yeah, it's still awesome. Probably the weakest of their PPV series (in 2007), but that's just a testament to how epic their series was. Who knew Batista could not only have a great match... but a SERIES of great matches? And who did it take to get that out of him? The motherfucking UNDERTAKER. HHH failed, but the Dead Man didn't .

STEEL STEPS TO THE FUCKING FACE~! Batista is bleeding and almost lost the match right there! See, I can at least buy a 7 or 8 count from THAT rather than a slam.

:mark: Undertaker sees the blood flowing from Batista's face and immediately starts punching the open wound :mark:.

At WM, Batista put Undertaker through the announce table. So for revenge, it's Undertaker's turn! LEG DROP THROUGH THE TABLE~!

Batista was blasted in the fact with steel steps, busted open, punched in the face and THEN driven through a table and... HE'S UP AT 9!!! THE ANIMAL IS STILL IN THE MATCH!!!

SPEAR~! Batista with a spear OUT OF NOWHERE! That'll buy him some time to rest and maybe even get the win! Nah, not the win.

SPINEBUSTER~!

SPINEBUSTER~!

SPINEBUSTER~!

3 fucking Spinebusters in a row! Batista knows he needs to hit everything he can in order to keep Undertaker down.

Well, the Spinebuster didn't work, so time for a Batista Bom... CHOKESLAM~!

Both men are down and hurting. Will we get a draw? Nah, that'd be a bullshit finish... 8*D.

Ha, cool to see Undertaker being the one to mount the corner for punches and get POWERBOMBED!

The Undertaker barely makes it back to his feet, and Batista cannot believe it. Time for a steel chair! RIGHT IN THE FACE~!

Batista doesn't even give the referee a chance to count, as he picks Undertaker up for a Batista Bomb on the chair... but gets a back body drop for his troubles!

TOMBSTONE~! It won Undertaker the WHC at WM, and now he's depending on it to win here.

BATISTA IS UP!!! What is it going to take to keep either man down?!?!

They work their way up to the top of the stage, hoping that they can try their luck outside of the ring, since nothing in the ring has worked.

They keep teasing something big off the stage, but nothing comes of it until...

SPEAR~! SPEAR OFF THE STAGE~! BOTH MEN CRASH DOWN TO THE FLOOR AS PART OF THE SET FALLS ON TOP OF THEM!!!

The match ends in a draw, with both men fucking DEAD from that huge bump. A great way to keep the series going, and not have one guy look THAT much better than the other buy surviving the LMS match.

Yeah, I love this. Undertaker and Batista beat the absolute FUCK out of each other, hitting their big moves, before going for it all with a bump off the stage. Pretty much exactly what the match should have been and needed to be.

*Rating: ****1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 6*


*John Cena Vs Shawn Michaels Vs Edge Vs Randy Orton - WWE Championship Match*

A text vote was cast and Cena got 50% of the votes to win this match. FIFTY PERCENT. Out of 4 possibly choices. These days he'd be lucky to get 20% probably lol.

So the fans give Cena a 50 & chance of winning, but in reality he only has a TWENTY FIVE PERCENT CHANCE 8*D.

We get a 4 man version of the spot from the Vengeance 2002 triple threat, where Angle was trying to get the attention of Rock and Undertaker, and ended up getting decked in the face. This time it's HBK and Cena getting in each other's face and Edge & Orton wanting the attention.

After those two halfwits get decked, HBK and Cena go at it as a continuation of their 45 minute war from Raw the previous week :mark:.

Aaaaand that lasts about 30 seconds before Rated RKO show up again, clear house, then have a staredown of their own which doesn't get much of a reaction tbh lol.

This match reminds me, I should watch that lengthy Raw match between HBK and Cena again soon, as well as the Orton Vs Edge match from around this time as well. Remember both very fondly, but haven't seen either for some time.

MOOOOOOOONSAULT~! HBK takes out everyone!!!

DOUBLE LEG DROP~! Cena hit both HBK and Edge with that top rop leg drop while his opponent bends over . Basically a super Fameasser, right? The Cenasser?

Whole match is a fast paced action packed crazy fun MOVES~! fest. And that's not always a bad thing. When done right, guys going out and going all out like this can be a ton of fun, and this is one of those times where I can sit back and ENJOY them doing it.

Finishing stretch is crazy as fuck, with everyone busting out as many finishers and big moves as possible.

F-U TO ORTON~! SWEET CHIN TO CENA~! CENA LANDS ON ORTON~! CENA RETAINS THE TITLE~!

Did we ever get another Cena/HBK match after this to finish their rivalry? Cena had the win at WM, HBK got the win on Raw, and then Cena only retains the title here because HBK kicked him on top of Orton... so unfinished business, right? All I remember is HBK goes on to a feud with Orton, gets taken out for 4 months and when he comes back Cena is out injured too lol.

Anyway, good main event. A ton of fun for sure, though I still think it gets a little overrated at times. Doesn't even come close to the GOAT 4 way from IYH Final Four in 1997!

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 15.5*​


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Flux said:


> Cena would have made it in some other facet of sports or entertainment. To think otherwise is ridiculous. Maybe not to the level of where he is in pro wrestling, but he would still be a big name somewhere doing something.
> 
> Insane work ethic + natural physical ability and charisma = success :fact


Agree to disagree. I'm not saying he'd be living under a bridge but work ethic only gets you so far. You have to be in the right situation and Cena has been pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed. Punk hit the nail on the head in his promo before Summerslam 2011. Cena is a dynasty. He has become everything he "hates". I actually respect the hell out of John but to say he'd be even close to as successful without pro wrestling is silly. I'd say that is even more true for guys like Savage, Foley, Bret Hart, Punk, Bryan, Dolph and Cesaro.....who I love. So this isn't a witch hunt with Cena whatsoever.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Cena/HBK/Edge/Orton is awesome. Agreed not near as good as the IYH Final Four (one of the best matches in a stacked here) but good nonetheless. I'd probably go **** on it. 

Taker/Big Dave was really good as well.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Backlash 2007 :mark: Love that show a lot. I would go **** for the Fatal 4-Way myself too. Crazy ton of fun that was. Obviously Taker/Batista was MOTN, but F4W is still up my alley. I would put it as probably the 3rd best 4-Way in WWE history, behind Final Four and NXT Takeover F4W. Haven't seen the much lauded Show/McIntyre/Ziggler/Cody yet tho so possibly it could be 4th. POSSIBLY.

And now Cal's walking for perhaps the 2007 MOTY for me, Orton/Michaels @ SVS. That match makes that entire show worth it. Who thought that HBK throwing a bunch of random submissions would make for such an awesome match? Nothing to take from Orton, he was viciously great too, but HBK played the role of avenger in desperation without his biggest gun to virtual perfection. I'd give that match ****1/2 easily.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

My MOTY for 2007 is Finlay/Hardy SD! 10/19/07. Nothing else from that year tops that work of absolute art for me.

Top 5 for 2007:

1. Finlay/Hardy SD! 10/19/07
2. Cena/HBK Raw 2007
3. Undertaker/Batista WM 23
4. Cena/Umaga LMS Royal Rumble 2007
5. Undertaker/Finlay SD! 3/9/07

After that, I'd probably have Undertaker/Batista CS 07', Rated RKO vs DX NYR 07', Orton/Michaels SVS 07' fill out my top 10. Okay year, not nearly as good as 2006, but still good. 

And Cal, definitely rewatch HBK/Cena Raw whenever you get a chance. Watched that a few months ago and still absolutely loved it. One of Cena's better performances and definitely one of HBK's better performances from his 2002-2010 run.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Maybe I'm just pointing this out since I find Steph's voice akin to nails on a chalkboard yet of course she is seeimingly on half the show, but all these times she delivers these long, chastising worked promos with seemingly a real message from the office, everybody seems to find them godly and whatnot. To me, while the whole dominant female bit who throws around her last name is her character, the whole thing is still ridiculous when main event guys just stand there listening to it with a stupid look on their face and sometimes act too scared to respond, and when these people do respond, they have all these potential comebacks that would add something to their character and get a pop, but they can't say anything other than something like "well you're a bitch"due to the rating and sponsors/Steph being on the board I assume. This is pro wrestling not a boardroom meeting. I mean, the very few times in recent years anybody has slipped anything edgier in, Stephanie has been completely neutralized ie: Randy Orton' "ever since you popped out a couple of grandkids you have become essentially worthless" or CM Punk's "I'd shake your hand but I know where that's been"


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)




----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lol at Cal's review of Benoit/MVP. Comment about MVP trying too hard to emulate the Benoits and Finlays of the world ring so true. Why would an arrogant athlete with a lucrative contract wrestle like a mat-based technician? That gimmick would have been perfect for MVP to show off speed, strength, leaping ability, and explosiveness. But no, he just had to wrestle like a pretentious fool. Goes to show that it's more important for your wrestling to fit who you are instead of just mindlessly emulating the greats and coming up short.

Ten favorites from 2007:

Batista/Undertaker WM
Cena/HBK RAW
Cena/Umaga RR
Batista/Undertaker CS
Punk/Morrison ECW (Title Change)
Orton/Michaels SvS
HHH/Orton NM
Hardy/Finlay Smackdown
Royal Rumble Match
Edge/Orton RAW

Top heavy list, but not much that truly stands out once you go on.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Think I should get started on Survivor Series 2007 tonight . Last 07 PPV Ramble, and Ramble Number *100*!!! Woooo! Kinda almost tempted to stop at 100 like I did with Weekly Wrestling Roundup... plus I like, only own about 7 shows after 2007 (not including RR and WM's lol) .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I enjoyed Benoit vs MVP only mildly because when MVP was in control, it got really boring. Still a better worker than Reigns! 8*D

Fatal four way is fun stuff and I enjoy it over the Final Four which was great but I don't care for the elimination stipulation added to it which took away from it.

CAL, you should totally watch the Cena/HBK and Orton/Edge matches. I recently rewatched the latter and it held up perfectly. These two had such excellent chemistry in their pre-Viper encounters and I have no idea where that all went by the time they were opponents again in 2010. (I guess slow-motion Viper combined with post-heel injury Edge just wasn't meant to work) As for the HBK/Cena rubber match, it never happened officially. If you watch Orton vs Edge, you'll hear Lawler talk about a part three but then HBK is knocked out in the locker-room and Khali shows up at the end of the show to challenge Cena. Their next match is a few weeks before WM24 (think 10 March 2008 is the exact date) which is also good and recently made the cut for Cena's rivalries DVD.

Top 10 for 2007:
1. HBK vs Cena - Raw (April)
2. Cena vs Umaga - RR
3. Batista vs Undertaker - WM
4. Orton vs HHH - NM
5. Orton vs HBK - SVS
6. Batista vs Undertaker - CS
7. Benoit vs Edge - SD (June)
8. Edge vs Orton - Raw (April)
9. Rated RKO vs DX - NYR
10. Finlay vs Undertaker - SD (March)

Now back to 2000. The weeklies are so much fun that I almost want to do an "update" on every show. Raw from 3 July is great stuff as the Benoit/Shane alliance is introduced and there's the awesome Foley/Rock/Shane segment when Foley gets a one-up on The Rock with "it doesn't matter". :lol Benoit/Eddie and Rikishi/HHH also have two solid 4 minute contests. And I even noticed something really strange when I saw this sign in the crowd that looks like it reads "Randy Orton". :lmao

edit: Watching the SD of that week and lol @ Taker vs Angle being set up b/c Angle spilled milk on Taker's motorcycle. :lmao


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Backlash 2007 is seriously awesome. Not a bad thing on the show. Opening tag is good (***1/4), everything else is fine (around the **1/2-3/4 range) and the Batista/Taker LMS is really great (****1/4). I think the Fatal Four Way from that show is probably the best in company history, and I have it at ****1/2. I can sort of understand why people wouldn't like it as match as me, because it's more of a spectacle than a match. Everything is just perfectly choreographed, no one is ever out of place. It's a fucking miracle that the match wasn't screwed up somehow, but it just goes to show how great all of the guys involved in it were. I think you were a bit harsh on the MVP/Benoit match, Cal (it's less boring than you made it out to be) and I actually think the Best 2/3 Falls match is their best, although it's still like *** at best. It's hard to believe someone can work with Benoit so much and get so little out of it.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i need your help everyone

pretty spaced out, but i just to want to watch a random PPV from 2002-2008, or a few of them, i see above a few are reviewed, just need a steer in the right direction lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Go with Backlash 2007 since I just rambled about it .


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

is the network available to australians? i might just pay the 9.99 and watch a whole load of stuff, how does it work?


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

No Mercy 2002
Vengeance 2003
Backlash 2004
Vengeance 2005
Unforgiven 2006
Backlash 2007
No Mercy 2008

A PPV for every year. No idea how the network works in Australia. I'm not paying for their shit.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm not sure if the Network is different in Australia but, assuming it's a standardized product, you should definitely go ahead and get it @King Kenny. Unless you own everything that's on there, then don't get it. But for $10 a month, the content is freaking loaded! Plus you get NXT. What more you want?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> My MOTY for 2007 is Finlay/Hardy SD! 10/19/07. Nothing else from that year tops that work of absolute art for me.


Did you mean 6/22? That's the match with the incredible leg work. I googled 10/19 and that DOES exist so I'm stoked to know about this, but if you haven't seen 6/22 that should be the first thing you watch. EVER.

Also Finlay/Rey from 11/3 is IMO the best match they had together. And the week after Rey has a really good match with Jamie Noble worth checking out. C2D mentioned a Benoit/Edge that I remember being friggin great, too. I think I'd call it Edge's best match behind the Hardy cage.

Cena/Umaga LMS is my MOTY. Fit/Hardy 2nd, Rey/Fit 3rd, and Cena/Mchaels 1,000 minute match 4th. Screw going beyond that. Haven't seen most of those matches in years. 



King Kenny said:


> is the network available to australians? i might just pay the 9.99 and watch a whole load of stuff, how does it work?


Just sign up and choose what to watch. If you only want it for the one month you just cancel your sub before the month ends and you won't be charged for the next month (I'm guessing?)


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i'm in

dont know where to start :mark:


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

recommendations now that im part of the network ? :mark: i gottta admit i use to watch a lot of wrestling during the time of the monday night wars, started to lose interest during the "invasion" storyline in 2001, havent watched much or most of the ECW stuff.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

LOVE Cena/Umaga at Royal Rumble in 07. Probably my fave match of that year. Just loved it. I found myself loving that Rumble when I watched it recently.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

oh my, so much stuff to watch

I just noticed My Name is Paul Heyman

nothing seems to be loading

help


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

If you're watching on a computer, clear your system cache and restart your browser. Or power cycle your router (unplug it and plug it back in after like 30 seconds).

Or there simply could be a problem with the network.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Via the network?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I haven't watched it in a long time but I remember the Trips/Umaga street fight at Cyber Sunday 07 being good. 

Damn....looking at 2007 Taker/Dave had 4 really good matches with each other. I am not a Dave fan but with the right guy he had some good matches.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

got it working

so much to watch :mark: :mark:


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Does anyone have the dates of the Guerrero/Malenko series in ECW? Tags included as well.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao The NXT crowd tonight crushed Big Show vs. Ryback. Told that fat useless oaf to retire and Big Show responded by telling them that he has ten more years on his contract.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Did you mean 6/22? That's the match with the incredible leg work. I googled 10/19 and that DOES exist so I'm stoked to know about this, but if you haven't seen 6/22 that should be the first thing you watch. EVER.
> 
> Also Finlay/Rey from 11/3 is IMO the best match they had together. And the week after Rey has a really good match with Jamie Noble worth checking out. C2D mentioned a Benoit/Edge that I remember being friggin great, too. I think I'd call it Edge's best match behind the Hardy cage.
> 
> ...



Definitely meant 6/22, thanks for catching that. I couldn't remember the date of the match so I googled it and that date popped up, it looked at first glance like Hardy was wearing those same snazzy pants so I used that date. The match with the amazing leg work and Hardys superb selling/baby face work is def the one I was thinking of. It's one of my favorites to pop in when I've got nothing new to watch. Hardy/Finlay was such a sweet matchup, all 3 of their matches that I've seen have ruled.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Did you mean 6/22? That's the match with the incredible leg work. I googled 10/19 and that DOES exist so I'm stoked to know about this, but if you haven't seen 6/22 that should be the first thing you watch. EVER.
> 
> Also Finlay/Rey from 11/3 is IMO the best match they had together. And the week after Rey has a really good match with Jamie Noble worth checking out. C2D mentioned a Benoit/Edge that I remember being friggin great, too. I think I'd call it Edge's best match behind the Hardy cage.
> 
> ...


Seems like something you should do after you're done w/2010 (when are you getting up your NOC review up btw?) 8*D

You don't remember very much stuff like Orton/Michaels SVS, Orton/Edge, Orton/HHH LMS, Undertista/John & Shawn, Umaga/Jeff GAB, the Taker/Batista series? All of that is pretty awesome. '07 may have had lots of issues, but it had its share of quality stuff.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The short Finlay vs Hardy match around when Finlay debuted is awesome too. Not June 2007 magic, but you'd get a good feel for what they could produce w/each other. Matt Hardy appreciation is lost on way too many.

btw Sami Callihan wrestled a match on TV this week. I cried metaphorically. Could have probably cried physically if I was alone. It's about god damn time.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

currently just put on wrestlemania 22


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

ATF said:


> Seems like something you should do after you're done w/2010 (when are you getting up your NOC review up btw?) 8*D
> 
> You don't remember very much stuff like Orton/Michaels SVS, Orton/Edge, Orton/HHH LMS, Undertista/John & Shawn, Umaga/Jeff GAB, the Taker/Batista series? All of that is pretty awesome. '07 may have had lots of issues, but it had its share of quality stuff.


Hardy/Umaga I blanked on and I'm pretty sure I'd still think is my favourite thing ever. I haven't seen any Taker/Batista other than the LMS in five+ years, and honestly the last time I watched the LMS I thought it was kinda boring.  I'm positive I'd still like the match from Mania a lot. I'd be willing to re-watch the whole series. I think I watched the No Way Out tag a couple years ago. Not as big on it as others, but still good. I wanna say I last watched Michaels/Orton in 2012 but I don't remember. I never didn't like the match as SSeries, anyway. I don't doubt I'd still be a fan of everything you mentioned (+ probably other things like Cena/Lashley, Cena/Khali, etc) but I won't know for sure unless I see them again. Hardy/Umaga, though. :mark: Forever THE BEST.

Dunno if I ever saw Orton/Edge. Was that after Backlash? I remember it being a well-liked match a while back.

Also forgot MNM/Hardys from the Rumble. I used to LOVVVVE that match. Bet I still would. Bet I'd like it even more now.


I went to watch NOC yesterday but the Network was acting up. Went to watch it today but didn't feel like it. I'll go to watch it tomorrow and get kidnapped by a hoodlum.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Hardys/MNM Rumble match is still the best tag of 2007.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I almost want to say it's the best 2-on-2 WWE tag of the 2000s other than Powertrip/Vanilla Midgets and the best GuerreroTajiri/Team Angle. Might just be forgetting a few things, though. Or a lot of things. Hard to believe Rey never had a better tag. Actually the best Rey/Batista/MNM match might be better.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Nothing beats Powertrip/Ben & Jerry for best WWE 2-on-2 Tag of the 2000's and possibly ever, honestly. Hardys/MNM RR would maybe make my top 10, but I wouldn't be sure of it. I liked a few other 2007 tags like Rated RKO/DX and Undertista/John & Shawn better. Still pretty awesome, and yet another reason for why I think Royal Rumble is PPV of the year for 2007 (Backlash comes close tho).

That being said, if we're counting 2000's as the entire millenium/century/whatever, Hardys/MNM doesn't even make top 15. Even 20 would be a stretch. Not when there's a whole lot of SHIELD out there.



Yeah1993 said:


> Hardy/Umaga I blanked on and I'm pretty sure I'd still think is my favourite thing ever. I haven't seen any Taker/Batista other than the LMS in five+ years, and honestly the last time I watched the LMS I thought it was kinda boring.  I'm positive I'd still like the match from Mania a lot. I'd be willing to re-watch the whole series. I think I watched the No Way Out tag a couple years ago. Not as big on it as others, but still good. I wanna say I last watched Michaels/Orton in 2012 but I don't remember. *I never didn't like the match as SSeries, anyway.* I don't doubt I'd still be a fan of everything you mentioned (+ probably other things like Cena/Lashley, Cena/Khali, etc) but I won't know for sure unless I see them again. Hardy/Umaga, though. :mark: Forever THE BEST.
> 
> Dunno if I ever saw Orton/Edge. Was that after Backlash? I remember it being a well-liked match a while back.
> 
> ...


You didn't like Orton/Michaels? Wow. Opinions I know, but I would find it very, very hard for anyone to not like that match. And yes, Orton/Edge is after Backlash. I also remembered liking Morrison/Punk Last Chance and Edge/Batista Vengeance.

And you really should get some inspiration to watch NOC. That is eaily one of the funnest shows of 2010, w/a guaranteed classic and one of the few good Kane/Taker's in there, c'mon man 8*D


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

He said he never *didn't* like it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oops, sorry. Sounded a bit strange of him not to like it, anyway, tho opinions are opinions.

Anyways, I remembered another contender for best 2-on-2 Tag in WWE ever: Bangle/Redge Bookdust/UnAmericans. Still not up there w/the Powertrip/Ben & Jerry's and Shield/Rhodes of the world, but Goddamn it, it gives me fucking goosebumps and it's yet another reason why SS 2002 = GOAT PPV.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

King Kenny said:


> recommendations now that im part of the network ? :mark: i gottta admit i use to watch a lot of wrestling during the time of the monday night wars, started to lose interest during the "invasion" storyline in 2001, havent watched much or most of the ECW stuff.


One of my favorite parts about the network is all the ecw stuff. The ppvs are quality. You gotta watch rvd-Lynn they have a couple of outstanding matches. Also watch Taz. He had one of the most fun title reigns to watch from a fans pov. Honestly I can crack a beer and watch ecw for days.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well, beer is certainly something I'd need to watch ECW... .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> Oops, sorry. *Sounded a bit strange of him not to like it*, anyway, tho opinions are opinions.


Does it really? When I don't know his opinion on a certain praised match, I automatically assume he doesn't like it until he says otherwise. 

--------------------------

...this Angle/Taker segment with the scooter. :lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

^ Well, I'd say that makes sense, but I think this particular match is WAAYYY too cerebrally orchestrated and performed by both Orton and especially Shawn for anybody, be it 'outsider' or 'Official DVD guy like us'  to not like it, I think. Fuck, now I'm pumped to see him review for something for some reason. Scratch that, I wanna see him shit on something. How many Edge and Angle reviews does he have? 

Speaking of the latter, Angle/Taker did have the most amazing chemistry. Some say Austin is Angle's greatest opponent (and yes, he gave him his best match ever by far), but Taker gave him two ****3/4 matches and a few other great gems too. Fully Loaded 2000 kinda sucks tho, unfortunely. Which is what you're walking into, C2D. Rest of the show more than makes up for it tho :mark:

As a matter of fact, if I were to rank the top 10 non-Big 5 (WM, SS, SVS, RR, KOTR) PPV's ever, FL 2000 would make the top 5. Here's how I see it:
1) IYH: Canadian Stampede
2) Extreme Rules 2012
3) Backlash 2000
4) Vengeance 2003
5) Fully Loaded 2000
6) No Mercy 2008
7) Money In The Bank 2011
8) No Mercy 2006
9) Judgment Day 2000
10) Money In The Bank 2013
HM: No Mercy 2003, One Night Only 1997, Vengeance 2005


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

What was so good about MITB 2013? Asking because I can't remember ANYTHING from the show off the top of my head lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I've already seen that FL match once before. It is a far cry from their later matches but it wasn't _that_ bad or anything. About two stars is what I'd give it. Looking forward to watch the entire show once and for all, though. LMS should hold up and Benoit/Rock has never failed to deliver each time. Will also finally see the cage match in its entirety beyond just that dive by Rikishi.

Main event for this Raw show is Benoit vs Rock, I don't understand why they're giving away the main event three weeks before the PPV even if the match has not been officially booked yet. Loving this rivalry, though. The two just have that chemistry even with Benoit being a more stoic, no-nonsense individual as opposed to the comedic side that most Rock feuds explored.

As much as I enjoy The Rock's promo routine, I definitely wish he would've been more serious more often because that role fits him to a T. Even with all the catchphrases he incorporates into his speeches, he manages to maintain a certain sense of intensity that reminds us that he may be one funny motherfucker but he's a badass too.

edit: I enjoyed MITB 2013 but I'm not sure I'd rank it this high. How could I not love that ending which put an end to two years of misery? :mark: Plus two good ladder matches and two solid title matches to go with it. One of the better PPVs in recent memory but not sure about top 10.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

For my taste, it had the 2nd best MITB match ever (WHC) at ****1/4, and three other ***3/4 matches in form of ADR/Ziggler, Cena/Henry and the somewhat underrated All Stars MITB. Axel/Miz and AJ/Kaitlyn were also harmless. Jericho/Ryback was the only blemish, but not bad enough to totally kill it for me. Still wish Shield/Usos had been bumped to the main card in its position tho.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ahhh, now I remember it. Found a text document where I wrote about the show lol:



Spoiler: MITB 2013 crap



Fandango Vs Dean Ambrose Vs Jack Swagger Vs Antonio Cesaro Vs Cody Rhodes Vs Damien Sandow Vs Wade Barrett

How LAZY is the MITB set? MITB is all about ladder matches... so let's throw ladders everywhere! DONE. Lazy fucking twats. Bet the set designers get paid a fortune for that shit too. And here I am jobless. Cunts.

:lmao at Lawler I think it was, in response to Sandow saying after tonight Philly won't be known for a famous fictional character like Rocky - "what does he mean fictional?". I think someone needs to explain to King the different between real life and movies. Then again he's in wrestling so he might not get it either way .

Cesaro just standing around holding Cody in a side suplex position is badass. Then he finally performs the move on a ladder. Awesome. Then the awesomeness dies when he and Swagger run into each other with ladders and do it so cautiously they kill the entire spot :lmao.

:lmao at Barrett. He's swinging the ladder around smashing people with it, until Fandango kicks it in his face to set up a legdrop. So Barrett falls over with the ladder... but the ladder isn't in the right position so Barrett has to actually TURN THE LADDER AROUND on top of him so it's right :lmao. Well done Barrett, continuing to prove me right. YOU FUCKING SUCK.

Best thing from Barrett in this is when Swagger pulls him from the ladder right into a fucking UPPERCUT OF DOOM from Cesaro.

MUSCLE BUSTER ON A LADDER.

Man, can't believe I actually wanted Ambrose to win this. Can't really see Dean as a World Champion any time soon. Stick to tags for now dude. Maybe work out some more too. Guy could barely lift himself up for that "skinning the cat" ladder spot. Pfft, I bet I could do that easy :side:. Mr Ohno is "in the dog house" because he didn't take getting told to get in shape seriously. WHAT ABOUT DEAN? 

Wonder if Ohno will ever make it to the main roster. And where is Steamboat? Haven't heard bugger all from him for a while. He injured?

"TALK ABOUT INNOVATION!!!" That was Michael Cole when Ambrose did the windmill ladder spot. Uhhh... don't think you can call something that's been done in pretty much EVERY multiman ladder match ever "innovation" you dumb fuck. And even worse we are stick with this dumb fuck for all time now that JR has been forced to retire. Fuck Vince. Hated JR for 20 years, treated him like shit, and now basically forced him out. Michael Cole should go back to covering wars. He might get shot or something.

Cody gets a nice babyface pop as he hits a few Cross Rhodes on peoples. Then wastes like 5 minutes wandering outside to get a ladder and setting it up. CODY IS BLEEDING! BLOOOOD! IN PG!!! BLOOOOOOD!

THE SHIELD! Can Reigns win it anyway? CLIMB REIGNS CLIMB! Bah. At least he spears that useless twat Fandanstillnotgoingaway.

THE USOS. Nice of them to ruin shit. Cesaro and Swagger go after THE SHIELD too! Oh man, GIVE US THAT TAG MATCH. Except they haven't yet, and this took place months ago. Bah.

Sandow wins. Did he like, spent like 90% of the match hiding lol? :lmao at him reaching for the briefcase in front of him when it was behind him. HE SO SMRT.

Fuck I hated how they kept making Sandow out to be a cunt for winning A NO DQ EVERY MAN FOR THEMSELVES LADDER MATCH by throwing someone else off the ladder. Urgh. Took them about 3 weeks to finally have Cody say he wasn't pissed that Sandow won the match over him but because he was just sick of Sandow in general. But by then Cody was already the clear cut heel of the situation for me. Why do WWE keep doing this? They are doing it right now with AJ. She's CLEARLY the fucking babyface (perhaps poor phrasing for those who think she looks 12... which is kinda odd because I don't see it myself. Then again I don't pay attention to 12 year olds you fucking pedos. Hai Cody  ) but they treat her like she's the most evil fucking bitch going. She's in WWE and she LOVES WRESTLING AND HAS DONE SINCE SHE WAS A KID AND SHE IS PASSIONATE ABOUT THE BUSINESS AND WINNING THE DIVAS TITLE WAS ACTUALLY IMPORTANT TO HER... and she gets mocked relentlessly on commentary. Oh and the reality show diva bitches who, aside from Natalya, can't wrestle for SHIT and are just attention seeking WHORES, are somehow the squeaky clean babyfaces in the whole thing. FUCK YOU WWE.

So the ladder match was fun mostly. Some dumbarse spots, but mostly entertaining. ***1/4.


AJ Vs Kaitlyn

Yey :mark:. Big rant on AJ being awesome and WWE being cunts to her, and now an AJ match :mark:. She'd better not drop the belt to some total diva slut tonight at NOC.

:lmao at the sign "I came for Kaitlyn". Guess I should make a "I came for AJ" sign now, right? 

So AJ is all flexible and shit. 

JBL is like, defending AJ and talking her up. WHY U NO DU THAT NOW U TWAT?

AJ works the arm of Kaitlyn which is injured, which is fine and all. Then Kaitlyn comes back and uses her POWAH and damn at AJ taking more awesome bumps, this time from a shoulder block.

SPEAR. She hurts herself though. AJ takes advantage. She can take advantage of me any time. BLACK WIDOW. AJ got this one .

Solid stuff, not as good as their PB match but still enjoyable. AJ rules. **1/2 or so.


Dolph Ziggler Vs Alberto Del Rio

Dolph has recovered from the concussion and is now the babyface. Wonder how this match is gonna go.

ELBOWS OF DEATH. Except unlike Lawler, Del Rio doesn't die from them. 

KICK TO THE HEAD. And no Del Rio can do the same shit he did last time. Which... I guess I'm ok with. It won him the match last time, but that was because Ziggler had the concussion and shit. Eh, give him another one. Guess that's Del Rio's thinking? Whatever.

So is Ziggler trying to be DX all in one? Uses the Fameasser on a regular basis. Superkick used to be regular. He uses an X-Factor off the ropes here. Just a Pumphandle Drop and Pedigree to go!

Speaking of the Fameasser, the counter into a German Suplex was TREMENDOUSLY SEXUAL. The AJ of moves, so to speak.

OMG SPEAKING OF AJ, SHE'S HERE!!! Couldn't have timed that last sentence any better lol. Legit had no idea she was gonna show up. Happy she did :mark:.

Dolph tells her to leave and she looks so sad . Now I'm sad. COME ON DEL RIO KICK THIS TWAT IN THE HEAD ALREADY .

Del Rio becomes a retard and pulls down his knee pad for a superkick, then AJ cracks him in the face with the divas title belt to punish his stupidity. Oh yeah and Dolph gets DQ'd. LOL. 

Can't say I cared for this. Was a lesser version of their PB match in every way. They tried to have the same kinda match, but Dolph wasn't just coming off the concussion like at Payback, and Del Rio was already the champion, so nothing seemed nearly as big, important, or as GOOD as before. Throw in a screwy finish and yeah, that's that. Me no likely much.


Mark Henry Vs John Cena

HENRY :mark:.

So this Henry guy seems pretty strong. Shoving Cena around, holding him up for a suplex than smashing him down onto the steel steps. All good shit :mark:. Cena just looks helpless.

THAT'S WHAT I DO. Oh man he is fucking murdering Cena. GIANT SWING INTO THE BARRICADE.

:lmao at Cena, Henry grabs his head but before he can start to apply any kind of pressure, or a hold in general, Cena starts screaming in pain and reaching out for the ropes. NOT YET, JOHN. 

Don't like them playing up Cena not being able to hit the AA. We KNOW he can. He's done it to Henry before. He's done it to Big Show. He's done it to Big Show AND Edge at the same time. Fuck off.

Luckily that little story (or main Cena story for the match, but Cena isn't the star here so fuck it) isn't enough to kill the match in any way because HENRY is awesome. Powering Cena around, talking trash and just being a bad motherfucker. Then when Cena DOES hit the AA... HENRY KICKS OUT! :mark:

WORLD'S STRONGEST SLAM! WORLD'S STRONGEST SLAM! YES! THIS IS IT! 1...2... OH FUCK OFF CENA. Bah. Henry should have won there tbh.

His finisher didn't work, so Henry tries to cheat, but instead he goes into the exposed turnbuckle and the STF is locked in! And Henry gets to the ropes. Yey! LOW BLOW!!!

"OH NO, HE STAYED ALIVE..." :lmao even Lawler sounds disappointed that Cena is STILL BREATHING :lmao.

WSS countered into another STF and... urgh, Henry taps . Shitty finish to an otherwise great match. ***1/2.


RVD Vs Randy Orton Vs Daniel Bryan Vs CM Punk Vs Sheamus Vs Christian

Christian is the "most experienced" ladder match guy in this match. Basically he's a ladder slut but saying he's "more experienced" classes it up. WHORE.

RVD officially returns to WWE in this match. He's popular and shit. So everyone mauls him. LOL. With RVD gone everyone decides to gang up on Sheamus because he's BIG.

Then it comes down to Bryan and Punk :mark:. 

RVD DEBUTED IN SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT IN 1996 HERE IN PHILLY. Urgh, sometimes I REALLY hate the term "sports entertainment".

Why do they have so many ladders at ringside? Seriously? How many do they think they are gonna get through? And why have the "Hornswoggle" ladder there too? Who the fuck is gonna use it to CLIMB? Not even Khali could stand on it and reach the fecking briefcase. And why have the 2 different sized main ladders too? Oh look that's a ladder. And over there is one that's a foot bigger. WHY? 

:lmao at Sheamus punching Christian through one of the gaps in the ladder rungs. OUCH at Sheamus getting knocked off the ladder and just plummeting into the ladder. Fucking RVD, he's back for one match and hurts Sheamus.

Sheamus avoiding the ladder set up across the apron and announce table is pretty sweet. Man I miss Sheamus already . COME BACK SHEAMUS.

Punk swinging the briefcase away while all 6 guys are on ladders trying to get to it is brilliant. 

Oh man SHEAMUS RULES THE PLANET in this match. He goes apeshit on everyone, then tries to set up the ladder only for RVD to interfere... so he smashes the ladder into the side of RVD's head and holy shit I'm 99% certain RVD didn't block it :mark:. That's what you get for hurting the Irishman's leg, you flippy shitty ECW twat. I wish Senzu Beans were real. Sheamus could recover straight away and be on the PPV tonight because he'd have never left and things would be awesome .

Punk taking a bow after taking Sheamus out with a ladder is :mark:. Wonder when we'll get the big Punk Vs Sheamus PPV match. We kinda NEED IT. It's like, one of the few big matches we've yet to have from the current crop of top guys.

Man, lengthy dull period. Yawn. Then BRYAN comes back into the match and wails on everyone like the GOAT he is. FUCK ME at that suicide dive to Punk on the outside. With all the ladders stacked at the barricade that had to be dangerous as fuck to do. SHEAMUS. Takes a great bump through a ladder. Guessing that's it for him in this match. He was definitely the best guy.

Speaking of best guys, someone who isn't at least; Curtis Axel comes down to ruin everything. So Punk gives him a GTS. Suck on that, bitch.

The Heyman/Punk stuff... was obvious as hell. We KNEW it was coming. But I'll be damned if it isn't wonderfully done. Punk bleeds the hardway, and just looks so betrayed .

Speaking of betrayed... Orton wins this fucking thing. Bah. Even being able to look back and see what's happened since doesn't make me feel any less fucked off about it lol. 

Match is about the same as the first one overall, for stars at least. Might prefer this one just for SHEAMUS and the awesome Punk/Heyman angle. ***1/4.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Love MITB 2013. Shield/Usos, both MITB matches, and both world title bouts are around that four star threshold for me. I also enjoyed AJ/Kaitlyn and even Axel/Miz. Shame that Jericho/Ryback was not too good, or else that PPV would have surpassed Summerslam 2013.

Recent episode of NXT was not too special, but this Owens/Riley feud is better than anything on the main roster. Owens is honestly playing a better monster heel champion than Lesnar.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Shield/Usos match was really good and the crowd was on fire for it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

ATF said:


> You didn't like Orton/Michaels? Wow. Opinions I know, but I would find it very, very hard for anyone to not like that match. And yes, Orton/Edge is after Backlash. I also remembered liking Morrison/Punk Last Chance and Edge/Batista Vengeance.
> 
> And you really should get some inspiration to watch NOC. That is eaily one of the funnest shows of 2010, w/a guaranteed classic and one of the few good Kane/Taker's in there, c'mon man 8*D






> I never *didn't* like the match as SSeries, anyway.


 Odd choice of words, but yeah, I liked it. 

Morrison/Punk I thought was pretty good. Edge/Batista I really, really, really liked six years ago but have heard nothing but shit about it since then and haven;t re-watched it. I remember it being arm-work-central so if the arm-work is halfway decent I should at least get something from it.

Blanked on Booker/Goldust/Christian/Jericho as well. Yeah, I'd probably have the August Raw match > MNM/Hardys.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I almost want to say it's the best 2-on-2 WWE tag of the 2000s other than Powertrip/Vanilla Midgets and the best GuerreroTajiri/Team Angle. Might just be forgetting a few things, though. Or a lot of things. Hard to believe Rey never had a better tag. Actually the best Rey/Batista/MNM match might be better.


I don't remember the Rey/Batista vs MNM series very well. I know one of them - I believe when the babyface win the straps - is kind of godly. Just don't know any details. Other than Batista raping Melina in the back before the match, as per the angle went. _(holy shit that stuff was great. I don't even care. It was. Probs b/c I was so anti-Batista at the time. MAKE EM A RAPIST)_

Edge vs Batista from Vengeance 2007 is bad. I thought it was solid for the longest time, then I relived it and was like "ugh" at so much. Those two might have had something work on TV, but they sure as hell never worked out in any of their PPV clashes. Edge was washed at that time & Batista was only clicking w/Taker, outside of tag team action. Well, I'd be better off saying both were washed outside of tags. Edge had a few singles matches on RAW in the start of the year I liked. The transition to SD is where he fell off for me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah, Edge was never really the same after winning the World Heavyweight Title. His Batista matches were average at best, he had a great series with Taker in 2008 and other than that, I struggle to think of any memorable matches in his last 2-3 years. Not counting Elimination Chambers or such. I watched the Jeff Hardy PPV matches on the Network last month and they were so forgettable.

2002 is probably his career year in the ring. Awesome series with Angle and Guerrero as well as tag team work in the Smackdown Six period. 2006 is his best if we combine everything because he was on fire then. Now that I think about it, what is his best singles match? First one that comes to mind is obviously the cage match with Matt Hardy. Nothing else is really on that level aside from maybe HIAC with Undertaker which was fantastic too.

Since Edge is the subject, I think more attention needs to be brought towards the wonderful tag match with him and Christian vs HBK and Orton from Raw 21 February 2005. It's funny in how many different ways him and Orton have been involved in several memorable tags, opponents or partners.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Matt Hardy steel cage match, no doubt. That feud was the best thing he ever did. Saying that as someone who still enjoys the matches vs Angle, his heel rise in 2006, stuff vs Undertaker. I'd say I'd take it over the tag work too, but I'm at least trying to keep it focused on his singles capacity.

Those Jeff Hardy matches from 2009 :lol What TRASH.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Unpopular opinion time....

I love Survivor Series 1998. It's a lot of fun. Total clusterfuck but I'm never bored watching it. There probably isn't any matches above 3 stars (maybe the main event?) but I put the stars aside here. Much like Wrestlemania 4 I'm just really entertained by this PPV. Foley is just excellent throughout and I didn't see the Rock turn coming whatsoever. Led to the Rock/Mankind feud which is one of my all time favorites.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I enjoy it too. A product of the environment, but it's a well orchestrated event. The payoff is well worth the hectic sea of the tournament. That and I happen to quite dig Foley vs Rock. Taker vs Kane is a LOT better than their WWF Championship match from Judgment Day, too.

There is no forgiving the three way match for the tag team championship though. Skip that, and I'm cool.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

If you missed the main event from last week's Smackdown (Rollins/Kane/Show vs. Ziggler/Ryback/Rowan), you should definitely go back and check it out. Great match that clicked on all cylinders. Opening was exciting, workover segment on Ziggler was well done (Big Show did HIS MOVE :lol) and Ryback coming in off that hot tag was insane. Final stretch was madness. Great match, added to my list.

Went back and tried to watch Bryan/Reigns again and was honestly bored out of my mind. The crowd was SO DEAD for the first half of it and I just didn't get invested in the work much at all this time around. Weird. Just cements the fact that Fast Lane was a super shitty event with almost nothing worth watching.

Random, but Cesaro & Kidd had a fun match against the Lucha Dragons on Main Event two weeks ago. Kinda cool that they're having the Brass Ring Club basically face everyone... and beat them.  MAKE RYBACK & ZIGGLER A TEAM NOW!!!


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I meant to come here and talk about Edge a few weeks ago, but forgot.

Since we're on the topic, I think he's a fantastic, fantastic, heel, and I kind of want to take the mantle from funnyfaces1 (did he ever reveal what he was going to say?) and say probably the craziest thing ever said in this thread.

But really, I get a kick out of him pretty much every time I see him. I was watching that three way match he had with Batista and someone else (maybe Taker? Don't remember). It was the one where there were three Edges, lol. That was stupid, but he was such a great, little, shit in that. Him peeking over the apron and then going back down had me LMAO.

I just think he fucking nails what this carny, ridiculous, wrestling business is all about, but it's never too OTT. I feel like everything he does is done with a wink and a smile like he's in on the joke, and that's just great. I also love how he just encapsulates the whole opportunist thing, and is just so damn scummy but slick with it all. 

You could get a new viewer to watch him, and they'd get totally caught up & entertained, I think. I realized that was the case with me, 'cause when I'm watching things for reasons other than him, I always end up impressed by his performance and antics. I remember saying to C2D that Edge was one of the standouts to me, when I was going through Orton stuff & segments, and when I was just learning about a lot of the "newer" people at the time.

Have no idea why he's not appreciated more online, but I would wager twenty years from now, young heels will be studying him. I absolutely think that Rollins was clearly influenced by him. He's doing so many Edge-like things, and I love it.

tl;dr: Edge impresses pretty much every time, especially with his character work. I definitely think that he's one of the most underrated talents amongst the IWC, despite his kayfabe accomplishments. I'd take him over far more lauded people any day of the week.


ETA: Plus, while I obviously wouldn't call him one of the ring greats, his matches usually deliver for me. I feel like he rises to the occasion more than most, which has given me many re-watch worthy matches, and in addition to those matches, the rest of his matches are generally good to very solid. I remember ya'll shitting on a Dolph/Edge match, and I really liked it. Like, even the ones you say are totally shit are fine with me. Shrug.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Edge is one of those wrestlers that I was always a fan of, but I do acknowledge his flaws. He was generally a good wrestler up until he became a main eventer. That much is the consensus online. But when Edge became a top heel around 2005, he was exposed due to his inability to create an interesting control segment. Too often does an Edge match have a completely forgettable middle portion that is oftentimes boring. A lot of people also hate his offense because nothing really looks like it hurts, but I don't care about that as much and I actually like that he doesn't work snug. Finally, Edge fell victim to the major flaw in many WWE main events, which is trading actual storytelling and subtleties for WWE-style "storytelling" and forced facial expressions and gestures. Edge's way of displaying anger is by making that goofy face and pulling his hair. A better way instead of doing this obvious "I'm angry" face to display his anger would be to progress the amount of viciousness in his strikes and moves as the match goes on and as his frustration builds. But Edge doesn't bother doing those things for whatever reason.

With that said, I don't think anyone can take away Edge's ability on the mic. Most of us agree that he was more than capable at speaking, but I would go a step further and say that at times he was the best in the entire company on the mic (especially in 2006). Edge just seems to "get" how to interact with the crowd and he has this quick wit that allows him to improvise. Of course, we all know about his impeccable comedic timing. But what fascinates me most was how Edge was an IWC hero throughout his career, yet through his mic work he was always able to get booed as a heel. Yes, he will engage in a bit of sports team-bashing here and there, but Edge was more than just a guy that depended on cheap heat as he was able to get the crowd seething to the point where they would even cheer Cena at his worst over him.

So yeah. I know he has lots of issues, but I'll gladly say that I'm an Edge fan. Big one too. And even with all the issues he may have in the ring, everyone he's worked with has praised his work to high heavens even before he retired. Dude must be doing something right.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ugh WWE putting NXT people on Main Event is such a terrible idea. They don't care.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Very valid point about the "anger" thing. I've noticed that as well, and that is a negative mark. You're right that replacing that with more vicious ring action would have gone a long way toward potentially making him one of the greats, I think. Basically, it's why I said I wouldn't call him a ring great or anything.

As for the control segments, I can totally see that, but those "boring" moments just don't bother me to the extent that they do other people. I feel like that was so popular during the time that I grew up watching wrestling, that I just expect that in matches, and it doesn't really phase me. As long as there's enough to make up for it to me, which I find to typically be the case in matches where people complain about that here. When there's not, it is a real bummer, and yeah, is torturous to watch. 

He is very, very, good at getting the crowd in the palm of his hand during matches, though. That may be one of the reasons why his peers praise him so highly. 

He lives in the moment and has very, very, good timing. I felt that EC match where he & Rey were the final two, was the masterclass in that. That was nearfalls done right.

This is why he's kind of fascinating to me, because the things you pointed out are accurate, and I can't really articulate something specific, as to why I would say that he's great in the ring (other than the things I just mentioned)...but I feel he produces above his level in a way. Does that make sense? Just somehow, I feel he's been able to put together a great catalog of matches, & get the audience involved and draw them in, despite him not necessarily having the things you typically look for in someone who can do stuff like that. So I guess that's one of the reasons why I say he's underrated. 

I remember Keller listing Edge in his top twenty US-based workers over the past 25 years, and many people scoffed and singled him out as someone who shouldn't be on that list, but I got what Keller was saying. He's a guy who you kind of feel shouldn't be there, in large part because he's never had the reputation or cred of someone who you feel is deserving of being there. Yet when I stop and think about it, he's had so many more impressive moments than more lauded guys. And have I actually enjoyed his matches more than theirs? And do they have flaws too that just get overlooked? But the main thing driving it, I think, is that Edge doesn't really have that one thing in the ring that you can point to that stands out, which is what I was saying earlier. Yet despite that, I feel he's been one of the more consistent performers, in terms of delivering watch-worthy matches, IMO.

Keep in mind, though, that I wasn't going through weekly shows or anything, so obviously I haven't seen him perform all the time on random RAWS. 

And yes, it was interesting for me to watch Jericho and Christian get cheered over Cena, but then watch Cena get virtually 100% of the cheers vs. Edge. Tells you Edge was doing something great.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

On Edge: I think the Backlash match with Angle is my favourite. The good guy tries to beat the more established veteran and comes up short. It's simple, but really good. I also really like that match he has with Orton from Vengeance 2004, but I understand that that choice is a little bit of a weird one. People always rave about the Street Fight he has with Eddie, but the ending annoys me way too much and it leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth after watching it.

*I'M GONNA DO MY MOVE*. That Smackdown main event was so much better than their match at Fastlane.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

The triple threat match I was talking about was Edge/Batista/Taker at Armeggedon '07, btw.

Last thing I'll say is that I find Edge versatile, despite some here saying that he was only good at spotfests.

Street Fight with Shawn was totally different from Vengeance with Orton which was totally different from E&C/Hardy/Dudley matches.

Would love to hear Vince's thoughts on Edge. Apparently he was high on him when H and others weren't, right? Edge doesn't strike me as a Vince McMahon type of guy, though, so that's interesting to me. That's why I'd love to hear his thoughts.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Lord knows I'm not an Edge fan but he was perfect with Christian on promos and backstage segments. I have problems with some of his mic stuff but I'm not surprised when he delivers a good promo.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Pretty sure nothing is better than the Matt Hardy Cage match for Edge's singles stuff. That being said, I would say that vs Undertaker @ WM 24 and vs Mick Foley @ WM 22 do come close. vs Taker @ HIAC, vs Kurt Angle @ Judgment Day 2002 and vs Randy Orton @ Vengeance 2004 are also among his greatest easily.



Yeah1993 said:


> Odd choice of words, but yeah, I liked it.
> 
> Morrison/Punk I thought was pretty good. Edge/Batista I really, really, really liked six years ago but have heard nothing but shit about it since then and haven;t re-watched it. I remember it being arm-work-central so if the arm-work is halfway decent I should at least get something from it.
> 
> Blanked on Booker/Goldust/Christian/Jericho as well. Yeah, I'd probably have the August Raw match > MNM/Hardys.


I had corrected myself since, my good sir 

BookDust/Vitamin C had an August match? I only remember December 12 on TV (which I thought was pretty great, ***3/4 on last watch) and of course No Mercy.

I also remember really liking MNM/Eddie & Rey @ SD 7/5/05, already in the storyline where Rey was under Eddie's command because of 'the secret'. That was forever ago, haven't watched it in at least 5 years and don't know how would stack up now.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Can I have a handful of Terry Funk recs that _aren't _vs. Lawler or Flair, please?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

There's a good few Booker/Goldust v. Jericho/Christian tags. Fairly certain there was one on Raw in August 02 that I thought was the best one.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Really? Gotta track 'em out, though I'm fairly certain they never had a better match than on December 12th that year.
@Flux The Deathmatch w/Foley or the tag w/Dory vs Hansen & Brody for example


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Jericho/Christian vs. BookDust couldn't have happened in August, because that's when BookDust was feuding with Christian & *Storm*.

Dates for every one of their matches on RAW:

02.12.2002
21.12.2002
02.06.2003

Christian/Jericho vs. BookDust was first done at No Mercy, barring a House Show match the day before.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, I reckon the match Jheri is remembering is either the SummerSlam match w/Storm instead as mentioned _(doubtful tho, b/c that's a PPV)_ or the 12/21/02 RAW match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah I cannot find any evidence that they had any match before October. What the fuck did I think was their best match together then? No Mercy? The best one in December? I think I watched them all in one day a couple years back. It was definitely a Christian/Jericho match, though.

This obv calls for a re-watch of the entire series.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm still saying it was 12/21 only b/c it was the match that got the most time behind it. No Mercy got 8 minutes even & the other RAW match was sub-7 minutes. Unless it was the latter sprint for ya. Idk. I should watch the two PPV matches too. Well, and No Mercy, but I remember that match vividly. Might as well chuck in the four way elimination from Armageddon too, b/c it rules.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Survivor Series 2007*

OMG IT'S RAMBLE 100!!! Excluding RR and WM Rambles, which were done as a separate project, this is the 100th PPV Ramble I've done! And I still have 2008 and 2009 to go!!!


*CM Punk Vs The Miz Vs John Morrison - ECW Championship Match*

One of these people has main evented WM. Against Cena. With the title on the line. And WON.

The fact that it ISN'T CM Punk still boggles my mind lol. Hell I'd take Morrison in that position over The Jiz. Jiz was, imo, one of the legitimately worst WWE Champions of all time. He had ONE good match during his title reign. A TLC match against Jerry Lawler. And no, their NWO match sucked. And no, the Raw match with Morrison wasn't good either. Jiz sucks. His title reign sucked. His WM match with Cena sucked more than a whore.

:lmao Punk just kicked Jiz RIGHT IN THE FACE and it looked stuff as fuck :mark:. 

Punk is going well early on, managing to keep both opponents at bay, who are definitely going to end up teaming up on Punk soon enough as they are tag champs together plus they are both heels and that's just what happens in these matches .

Lol, Jiz ends up turning on Morrison about a minute into them teaming up together . What a cunt. He needs another kick to the face!!!

:mark: Jiz just got kicked in the face again :mark:.

:mark: Morrison gets his own back on Jiz :mark:.

SKULL CRUSHING FINALE~! And it's not his finisher yet so nobody cares and it doesn't get him a 3 count . TAKE THAT, JIZ!

STARSHIP PAIN~! Oh wait that isn't Morrison's finisher yet so, yeah, nobody cares and no 3 count .

A GTS to Jiz and Punk retains his title!

Well, I enjoyed this a ton! A fun, action packed triple threat!

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


MVP is backstage getting interviewed by... ummm... sorry, who the feck is that lol? 










Anyways, MVP took out Matt Hardy on SD (so no Matt tonight  ), and the interviewer women wants to know why he did it.


*Beth Phoenix, Layla, Jillian Hall, Victoria & Melina Vs Torrie Wilson, Michelle McCool, Kelly Kelly, Maria & Mickie James*

Lol, Lawler and JR build up Melina's entrance as something truly special... and then she slips :lmao. Victoria tells her not to worry and tells her to do it again .

Hmmm.... should I watch this? Nah lol.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


The Coach and WILLIAM REGAL are backstage, trying not to laugh. Why? Because Hornswoggle is with them, and he has to face The Great Khali tonight!!!


*Cody Rhodes & Hardcore Holly Vs Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch - World Tag Team Championship Match*

Oh man, almost forgot that Cody and Holly were tag partners at one point :lmao.

:lmao at sign guy. MURDOCH WATCHES ANIMAL PLANET FOR DATES.

Damn, how THIN is Cody at this time? Looks like a Cruiserweight lol. Maybe he was overcompensating for the fact his dad was FAT? 

Is it weird that I wish Cade & Murdoch were around in the 80's instead of the 00's? They are such a fantastic TAG TEAM, and would have likely been very successful and lasted probably the entire decade had they been around for the 80's, when tag wrestling actually mattered.

CANADIAN SUNSET FLIP DESTROYER~! I guess he isn't allowed to do an actual Piledriver with it . And that gets the win for Murdoch, allowing him and Cade to retain their titles! Solid tag match, honestly thought this was where Cody and Holly won the titles so the finish was nice and surprising to me lol.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


Team HHH backstage. Kane brings up Katie Vic :lmao. 


*Triple H, Kane, Rey Mysterio & Jeff Hardy Vs Umaga, Mr Kennedy, Finlay, MVP & Big Daddy V - Traditional Survivor Series Elimination Match*

HHH's team is at a disadvantage because Matt Hardy is unable to compete tonight . 

Rey and Kennedy go back and forth to start things off, then Jeff gets tagged in, and Kennedy outright MURDERS him with a sweet clothesline :mark:.

MVP hurts his leg from kicking Jeff in the back :lmao.

BIG DADDY V :mark:. Anyone else wish he'd gotten an ECW title run at one point? Let's face it, Punk wasn't really doing shit with the title lol.

Fuck me, MASSIVE belly to belly suplex on Kane! I'd have bought it as the elimination of Kane, but alas, Kane had to kick out.

CHOKESLAM TO FINLAY~! He isn't the legal man though! SAMOAN DROP TO KANE~! ELBOW DROP~! Big Daddy V has eliminated Kane! It's now 5 on 3!

Big Daddy V dominating HHH :mark:. For like, a second, anyway.

TAG TO UMAGA~!

Hopefully HHH and Umaga can do some fun stuff together in the confines of a tag match, because their singles matches ain't exactly been good .

HHH ain't having much effect against the SAMOAN BULLDOZER, so he tags in... Rey? :lmao

Well, Rey proves me wrong by getting the better of Umaga, hitting a 619 and West Coast Pop!!! 1...2... UMAGA KICKS OUT~!

Aaaand then Umaga eliminates Rey .

5 on 2!

Don't remember how this one ends, but I have a sneaky feeling HHH and Hardy BERRY the other team and win anyway .

Oh look, Jeff eliminates MVP! WHY DOES NOBODY BREAK UP PINFALLS IN THESE MATCHES?!?!

:lmao Kennedy gets crushed by Big Daddy V, and that's him eliminated by HHH .

BIG DADDY V TAKING OUT HHH AND JEFF BY HIMSELF :mark:. Not in a way to win the match, but he fucking kills em both on the outside lol.

What? Big Daddy V gets eliminated with a fucking DDT? Unless it's ARN ANDERSON or JAKE ROBERTS hitting it, it shouldn't be able to eliminate someone the size of BDV in 2007 tbh.

FINLAY TIME~! I think this might be the first time he's been in the ring legally lol. He ran in and got Chokeslammed by Kane at one point, but that's it .

So it's 2 on 2 now, not too happy with how TEAM HHH squashed 3 people in a row basically, but with everyone else gone we can get down to a traditional tag match, which I can't REALLY complain about .

Jeff is playing FIP, and Finlay is killing him. HOLY FUCK AT THE BIG BOOT ON THE APRON BY UMAGA.

Hot tag is cold as ice unfortunately, which is a shame because they were working over Jeff really well and the big tag SHOULD have been hot.

PEDIGREE~! And Finlay is gone . WHY DIDN'T YOU BREAK UP THE COUNT, UMAGA?

PEDIGREE AND SWANTON BOMB~! And Umaga is gone, with both HHH and Hardy surviving.

Overall though, this was a super fun elimination match. Didn't quite agree with some of the eliminations, or at least how they happened, but those are just minor complaints tbh.

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


Lol, Vince and Hornswoggle backstage segment reminds me of something we'd see on Game of Thrones with Tyrion and Tywin lol.


*The Great Khali Vs Hornswoggle*

SHANE MCMAHON~!

Man, Hornswoggle looks like he's ready to rip someone apart!!! Vince's motivational speech really did something .

KICK TO THE LEG~! And it does nothing to the giant .

Well, Hornswoggle is having more luck against Runjin on the outside at least .

CHOP TO THE HEAD~! I think Khali might have killed another wrestler for real...

FINLAY~! FINLAY TO THE RESCUE~!

Well this was... amusing, but could have been done on Raw instead.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Randy Orton Vs Shawn Michaels - WWE Championship Match*

If Orton gets DQ'd like he did at Cyber Sunday, he loses the title! However, HBK cannot use the Super Kick!!!

Build up video for this match is awesome. Has that epic piece of music that I always associate with the final episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer during the big fight. Plus, it has HBK superkicking Orton a bunch of times :mark:. Nobody gets kicked in the face by HBK quite like Orton!!! 

Right from the get go, HBK has to use a different strategy compared to usual, because he cannot simply set up to Sweet Chin Music. He makes use of an awesome form of a front head lock, and occasionally smacks his knee right into the top of Orton's head :mark:. I always have that move for my CAW in WWE games lol.

And of course that hold is only the beginning of HBK resorting to different submission holds in an attempt to beat Orton without his finishing move, and it's one of the main reasons I adore this match :mark:. It's just awesome to see how Shawn adapts to not being able to use the kick. Hey Edge and Ziggler, maybe you should have fucking watched this match before your pathetic excuse of a match at the RR that one year. This is how to do the match stipulation right.

SHARPSHOOTER~! BY HBK~! AT SURVIVOR SERIES~! :mark:

DDT BY ORTON~! See, now that is a good use of the DDT. Not beating HBK, but playing off the concussion angle that started this feud. Big Daddy V losing to a fecking DDT... what a load of bullshit...

:lmao at Orton dry humping HBK during a headlock spot on the mat, while he has his legs wrapped around Shawn :lmao.

5 MOVES OF DOOM TIME~!

STOPPED BY A DROPKICK TO THE FACE~!

ELBOW OFF THE ROPES~! Now this is the time where he'd start to tune up the band, but it's illegal! HBK doesn't seem to care though, he just wants to smash Orton's head with his boot!

Here it comes... SWEET CHI.... HBK faked the superkick, and while Orton tried to duck, Shawn small packaged him for a near fall! Awesome .

CRIPPLER CROSSFACE~! This was the first time it had been used since the Benoit thing, right?

Damn, we've had some pretty epic clotheslines here tonight :mark:. Wonder if this event is what made JBL decide to come back? 

Oh btw, the epic clothesline here was from Orton . And with HBK down, it's time for the PUNT!

HBK counters with an ANKLE LOCK~! Orton is screaming in pain and biting his hand, anything to try and avoid losing his title! He finally manages to turn HBK over and kick HBK in the back of the head with his other foot to escape! Great sequence!!!

Finish is fucking SPECTACULAR in the story of the match. Shawn counters an RKO, and instinctively tries to land the Super Kick, but remembers he can't use it and has to stop, allowing Orton to catch him with an RKO!!!

Truly an awesome, awesome match. So glad it held up. And then after the match, Orton decides to come back into the ring and slap Shawn around, demanding that he call Orton THE BEST. What does he get in return? SWEET CHIN MUSIC~! :mark:

*Rating: ****1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 6*


Seems Jericho is returning on Raw the night after this show.


*Batista Vs The Undertaker - World Heavyweight Championship Hell in a Cell Match*

:mark: What a one-two punch to end the show :mark:. WWE title match and now THIS? Fuck yes!

DID YOU KNOW? Batista wrote in his book, which was written before his series with Undertaker began, that his dream match was to face Undertaker inside Hell in a Cell!!!

Also, did Batista actually write his own book? Because if not, whoever actually wrote it for him is the worst writer in history. The book, while a good read imo, could have easily been written by a 3 year old. Excluding names of people, places and things, you are lucky to find a word with more than 2 syllables in it .

Hell in a Cell is Undertaker's home. He probably lives in one down in Death Valley. Maybe even a 3 tier version from WCW, because I'm sure by now he can afford a couple extra floors . Anywho, Batista's title is on the line, and despite being champion, despite having BEAT Undertaker at the previous PPV, he is still at a disadvantage here tonight. He needs to dictate the pace of the match and not let Undertaker get into his grove, otherwise the title is going back to the Dark Side.

Undertaker unfortunately does indeed start strong, so Batista must simply SURVIVE long enough to take advantage of any opening.

:mark: Undertaker smashing the chair into Batista's throat :mark: LOVE that spot. He did it to VISCERA in 2004 when JBL hired him and Gangrel to take out the Dead Man. BATISTA IS BLEEDING FROM THE MOUTH~!

:mark: Undertaker continues to be awesome by going for a cover and driving his forearm into the throat :mark:.

OLD SCHOOL COUNTERED INTO A SPINEBUSTER~! Batista might have just found his opening!!! But will it give him enough time to get back into the match??

Now it's time for Batista's POWER to get him back on top of this match, and he looks impressive as hell powering Undertaker around with ease.

However POWER can only get you so far in this time of match. Undertaker has the experience advantage, not just for his lengthy career, but also from being in more HIAC matches than anyone on the planet! When Batista tries to take the match to the outside to use the cell as a weapon, Undertaker quickly makes a comeback and shows Batista how it's done!!! BATISTA IS NOW DRIPPING WITH BLOOD FROM HIS HEAD~!

TRIANGLE CHOKE~!

Batista is bleeding from the head and the mouth, so surely this has to be the end, right? Batista grabs the ropes... and the hold is broken. Never understood that in a HIAC match, but whatever. THE MATCH GETS TO CONTINUE :mark:.

:mark: Undertaker sets Batista up in the corner, picks up the steel steps and charges forward to smash them into the Animal!!! Batista counters, and puts Undertaker in the same position, and fucking goes insane, smashing the steps repeatedly into the Dead Man's face :mark:. THIS IS A FUCKING WAR!!!

:lmao the cat that lives in my current house jumped up on my desk while I went for a drink. When I came back, she was stood on the delete key and half my ramble had gone :lmao. Thank fook for Ctrl-Z!!!

LAST RIDE OUT OF THE CORNER~!

CHOKESLAM~!

Batista still kicks out!!!

SPINEBUSTER~!

SPINEBUSTER~!

Batista is fully aware that not even those 2 moves will finish off Undertaker, so he goes under the ring for a little assistance!

BATISTA, GET THE TABLES~!

POWERBOMB THROUGH THE TABLE~!

That's gotta be it! THAT'S GOTTA BE IT!!!

UNDERTAKER STILL KICKS OUT~!

:mark:

Ok, the table didn't work, so let's try a Powerbomb on the steel steps! COUNTERED INTO A BACK BODY DROP~! Batista's spine hits hard on the steel steps!!!

TOMBSTONE~!

HOLY SHIT BATISTA KICKS OUT!!! BATISTA KICKS OUT! BATISTA KIIIICCCCCKKKS OUUUUUUT!!! :mark:

Undertaker is PISSED that the match isn't over, so he punishes Batista with a fucking Tombstone on the STEEL STEPS!!!

NOW it's over!!!

WAIT, IT'S EDGE! EDGE! EDGE HAS RETURNED!!!

CAMERA TO THE FACE OF THE UNDERTAKER~!

CONCHAIRTO USING A CHAIR AND THE STEEL STEPS~!

Edge drags Batista over and lets him cover Undertaker, and THE ANIMAL retains the WHC in one HELL of a HELL IN A CELL match!!! :mark:

This is fucking tremendous, and a HIAC match that I think tends to be overlooked. Everyone remembers the HIAC match between Undertaker and Edge, that is set up during this match, and of course they remember all the HIAC matches from like, pre-2000, but this goes overlooked and that sucks. It's awesome. It's better than the Edge HIAC match. It's better than the HHH/Batista HIAC from 05. Not quite as good as the Undertaker/Orton 05 HIAC, but probably the second best HIAC to happen since... the original? So it'd be HBK/Taker 97, Taker/Orton 05, and then this!!!

EDIT: Totally just remembered about BROCK VS UNDERTAKER from 2002 lol. THAT would be the best ever HIAC right behind the first, so this particular HIAC match would be 4th overall . Still awesome!

*Rating: ****1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 7*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 19*​


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao Why was Finlay both a face and a heel at the same time?


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

the miz was great. shut up


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well technically that was his babyface turn . Plus it DID make sense storyline wise for Finlay to help out his Leprechaun. And of course it turned out to be HIS son and not McMahon's, so yeah .

DID YOU KNOW? Ramble number 1 and Ramble number 100 both have the SAME CAL SCALE RATING of 19? 


EDIT: NO U SHUT UP.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Flux said:


> Can I have a handful of Terry Funk recs that _aren't _vs. Lawler or Flair, please?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

To the person asking for Funk matches I really enjoy Steamboat/Funk from Clash of the Champions 7. Funk/Foley had a great falls count anywhere match shortly after WM14 but I forget the date but remember loving it. It's on the Foley Greatest Hits/Misses set.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*2007 PPV Rambles – End of Year Thoughts*

2007 is over and done with, and that's 100 Rambles down!!! Only got 2008 and 2009 to go and then that'll be it for my PPV rambles. After that I'll probably do all the SummerSlam and Survivor Series PPV's that I haven't already done. Anyway, 07 was definitely a mixed year. A bunch of shit, but the high end stuff we got was absolutely tremendous!

*Wrestler of the Year*

Well, based on the amount of matches in the top 10 for the year, THE UNDERTAKER takes it with a total of SEVEN in the top 10!!! Batista is a close second with 6 matches (ALL of them featuring Undertaker too, be it their series of matches, the tag at NWO, or the triple threat. Undertaker is the same obviously, but also has the RR match!). HBK is 3rd with 5 matches. Undertaker has always been my pick for Wrestler of the Year in 2007, long before I did this ramble project. His stuff on PPV is incredible, and he has a ton of great TV matches as well. Well deserving of the WOTY title!

*PPV Match of the Year*

The top 10 are all worthy of taking the number 1 spot, depending on your preferences. I wouldn't agree with some of them, but at the same time I could certainly understand why people might place any of the top 10 at the #1 spot. However for me, it's the incredible Undertaker Vs Batista match from WM 23 at ****1/2 that beats the rest! In fact the top 3 spots are all taken up by Undertaker Vs Batista matches!

*PPV of the Year*

Most people tend to think Backlash, and honestly I was expecting that one to come out on top, however it was SURVIVOR SERIES that took the lead with 19 on the CAL SCALE!!! And Backlash didn't even come second, it ended up third behind Armageddon! SVS is an awesome all round show, with 2 incredible main events, a really good elimination tag, and an undercard of solid matches.

*2007 PPV’s on the CAL SCALE:*

Survivor Series - 19
Armageddon - 16
Backlash - 15.5
Royal Rumble - 12
WrestleMania 23 - 11.5
The Great American Bash - 11
No Mercy - 10.5
Cyber Sunday - 9.5
Unforgiven - 9.5
New Years Revolution - 7
One Night Stand - 7
No Way Out - 5
Vengeance Night of Champions - 3
Judgment Day - 2
SummerSlam - -0.5


Total - 138

*2007 PPV compared to 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2006:*

Image is too big to post, so click the link!

*2007 PPV Matches Ranked:*



Spoiler: Matches



Rey Mysterio Vs Chavo Guerrero - NO - -1 (SummerSlam)
Ric Flair Vs Carlito - NO - -1 (Judgment Day)
Torrie Wilson Vs Victoria Vs Kristal Vs Michelle McCool Vs Kelly Kelly Vs Brooke Vs Layla Vs Melina Vs Mickie James Vs Beth Phoenix - NO - -1 (SummerSlam)
Melina Vs Candice Michelle - NO - -1 (One Night Stand)
Beth Phoenix Vs Candice Michelle - NO - -1 (Unforgiven)
Carlito Vs Chris Masters - NO - -1 (New Years Revolution)
Kenny Dykstra Vs Ric Flair - NO - -1 (New Years Revolution)
Finlay & Hornswoggle Vs The Boogeyman & The Little Boogeyman - NO - -1 (No Way Out)
King Booker Vs Kane - NO - -1 (No Way Out)
Kane Vs The Great Khali - NO - -1 (WrestleMania)
Beth Phoenix, Layla, Jillian Hall, Victoria & Melina Vs Torrie Wilson, Michelle McCool, Kelly Kelly, Maria & Mickie James - NO - -1 (Survivor Series)
Beth Phoenix Vs Candice Michelle - NO - -1 (No Mercy)
RVD, Tommy Dreamer, The Sandman & Sabu Vs Elijah Burke, Marcus Cor Von, Matt Striker & Kevin Thorn - NO - -1 (WrestleMania)
Melina Vs Ashley - NO - -1 (WrestleMania)
Melina Vs Candice Michelle - NO - -1 (Vengeance Night of Champions)
Duece & Domino Vs Sgt Slaughter & Jimmy Snuka - NO - -1 (Vengeance Night of Champions)
The Sandman Vs Carlito - NO - -1 (The Great American Bash)
Melina Vs Candice Michelle - NO - -1 (The Great American Bash)
Randy Orton Vs Dusty Rhodes - NO - -1 (The Great American Bash)
CM Punk Vs Elijah Burke - DUD - 0 (Judgment Day)
CM Punk Vs The Miz - DUD - 0 (Cyber Sunday)
Jeff Hardy Vs Mr Kennedy - DUD - 0 (Cyber Sunday)
Vince McMahon, Shane McMahon & Umaga Vs Bobby Lashley - DUD - 0 (Judgment Day)
Bobby Lashley Vs Test - DUD - 0 (Royal Rumble)
John Morrison Vs CM Punk - DUD - 0 (SummerSlam)
King Booker Vs Triple H - DUD - 0 (SummerSlam)
Randy Orton Vs Chris Jericho - DUD - 0 (Armageddon)
Bobby Lashley Vs Mr Kennedy - DUD - 0 (No Way Out)
John Morrison Vs CM Punk - DUD - 0 (The Great American Bash)
Jimmy Wang Yang Vs Shannon Moore Vs Funaki Vs Jamie Noble Vs Chavo Guerrero - DUD - 0 (The Great American Bash)
Triple H Vs Carlito - 1/4* - 0 (Unforgiven)
Batista Vs The Great Khali - 1/4* - 0 (No Mercy)
The Great Khali Vs Finlay - 1/4* - 0 (Armageddon)
Triple H Vs Umaga - 1/2* - 0 (Cyber Sunday)
Santino Marella Vs Umaga - 1/2* - 0 (Vengeance Night of Champions)
Scotty 2 Hotty Vs Daivari Vs Gregory Helms Vs Funaki Vs Shannon Moore Vs Jimmy Wang Yang Vs Jamie Noble Vs Chavo Guerrero - 1/2* - 0 (No Way Out)
Paul London & Bryan Kendrick Vs Deuce & Domino - 1/2* - 0 (No Way Out)
Edge Vs Batista - 1/2* - 0 (One Night Stand)
John Cena Vs Mick Foley Vs Randy Orton Vs Booker T Vs Bobby Lashley - 1/2* - 0 (Vengeance Night of Champions)
The Hardy Boys Vs World's Greatest Tag Team - 1/2* - 0 (One Night Stand)
Randy Orton Vs Shawn Michaels - 1/2* - 0 (Cyber Sunday)
Vince McMahon & Bobby Lashely - 3/4* - 0 (One Night Stand)
Rey Mysterio Vs MVP - * - 0 (Armageddon)
Umaga Vs Mr Kennedy Vs Carlito - * - 0 (SummerSlam)
The Great Khali Vs Batista - * - 0 (SummerSlam)
Chris Benoit Vs MVP - * - 0 (Judgment Day)
Sandman, Tommy Dreamer & CM Punk Vs Elijah Burke, Matt Striker & Marcus Cor Von - * - 0 (One Night Stand)
Edge Vs Batista - * - 0 (Judgment Day)
Edge Vs Batista - * - 0 (Vengeance Night of Champions)
The Great Khali Vs Hornswoggle - * - 0 (Survivor Series)
Big Daddy V Vs CM Punk - * - 0 (No Mercy)
Matt Hardy & MVP Vs Deuce & Domino - ** - 0.5 (Unforgiven)
MVP Vs Ric Flair - ** - 0.5 (Vengeance Night of Champions)
Johnny Nitro Vs Jeff Hardy - ** - 0.5 (New Years Revolution)
MVP Vs Chris Benoit - ** - 0.5 (Backlash)
MVP Vs Kane - ** - 0.5 (Cyber Sunday)
John Cena Vs Randy Orton - ** - 0.5 (SummerSlam)
Randy Orton Vs Shawn Michaels - ** - 0.5 (Judgment Day)
Triple H Vs Umaga - ** - 0.5 (No Mercy)
Umaga Vs Bobby Lashley - ** - 0.5 (WrestleMania)
John Cena Vs The Great Khali - ** - 0.5 (Judgment Day)
The Highlanders Vs The World's Greatest Tag Team Vs Hacksaw Jim Duggan & Super Crazy Vs Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch Vs Cryme Tyme - ** - 0.5 (New Years Revolution)
The Hardy Boys Vs Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch - ** - 0.5 (Vengeance Night of Champions)
Jeff Hardy Vs Mr Kennedy Vs Matt Hardy Vs Edge Vs Randy Orton Vs King Booker Vs CM Punk Vs Finlay - **1/2 - 1 (WrestleMania)
Chris Benoit & The Hardy Boys Vs MNM & MVP - **1/2 - 1 (No Way Out)
Kane Vs Finlay - **1/2 - 1 (SummerSlam)
Mickie James Vs Beth Phoenix - **1/2 - 1 (Armageddon)
Chris Benoit Vs MVP - **3/4 - 1 (WrestleMania)
CM Punk Vs Elijah Burke - **3/4 - 1 (Unforgiven)
Brian Kendrick, Paul London & Jeff Hardy Vs Lance Cade, Trevor Murdoch & Mr Kennedy - **3/4 - 1 (No Mercy)
CM Punk Vs Johnny Nitro - **3/4 - 1 (Vengeance Night of Champions)
The Undertaker Vs Mark Henry - **3/4 - 1 (Unforgiven)
Batista Vs Mr Kennedy - **3/4 - 1 (Royal Rumble)
Bobby Lashley Vs Vince McMahon, Shane McMahon & Umaga - **3/4 - 1 (Backlash)
Cody Rhodes & Hardcore Holly Vs Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch - - *** - 2 (Survivor Series)
Triple H Vs Jeff Hardy - *** - 2 (Armageddon)
CM Punk Vs The Miz Vs John Morrison - *** - 2 (Survivor Series)
The Hardy Boys Vs Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch - *** - 2 (Judgment Day)
Finlay Vs Rey Mysterio - *** - 2 (Cyber Sunday)
Mickie James Vs Victoria - *** - 2 (New Years Revolution)
Melina Vs Mickie James - *** - 2 (Backlash)
Mark Henry Vs Kane - *** - 2 (One Night Stand)
The Hardy Boys Vs Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch - *** - 2 (Backlash)
The Great Khali Vs Rey Mysterio Vs Batista - *** - 2 (Unforgiven)
The Great Khali Vs Kane Vs Batista - ***1/4 - 2 (The Great American Bash)
John Cena Vs Umaga - ***1/4 - 2 (Royal Rumble)
DX Vs Rated RKO - ***1/4 - 2 (New Years Revolution)
Chavo Guerrero Vs Jimmy Wang Yang - ***1/2 - 3 (Vengeance Night of Champions)
Finlay Vs Rey Mysterio - ***1/2 - 3 (No Mercy)
John Cena Vs The Great Khali - ***1/2 - 3 (One Night Stand)
Randy Orton Vs Triple H - ***1/2 - 3 (No Mercy)
John Cena Vs Randy Orton - ***1/2 - 3 (Unforgiven)
Kane & CM Punk Vs Mark Henry & Big Daddy V - ***1/2 - 3 (Armageddon)
Paul London & Bryan Kendrick Vs Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch - ***1/2 - 3 (Unforgiven)
Triple H, Kane, Rey Mysterio & Jeff Hardy Vs Umaga, Mr Kennedy, Finlay, MVP & Big Daddy V - ***1/2 - 3 (Survivor Series)
MNM Vs The Hardy Boys - ***1/2 - 3 (Royal Rumble)
Randy Orton Vs RVD - ***1/2 - 3 (One Night Stand)
John Cena Vs Shawn Michaels Vs Edge Vs Randy Orton - ***3/4 - 4 (Backlash)
Jeff Hardy Vs Umaga - ***3/4 - 4 (The Great American Bash)
MVP Vs Matt Hardy - ***3/4 - 4 (The Great American Bash)
John Cena Vs Umaga - ***3/4 - 4 (New Years Revolution)
John Cena Vs Bobby Lashley - ***3/4 - 4 (The Great American Bash)
Triple H Vs Randy Orton - ***3/4 - 4 (No Mercy)
John Cena Vs Shawn Michaels - **** - 5 (WrestleMania)
Shawn Michaels Vs Mr Kennedy - **** - 5 (Armageddon)
Batista Vs Edge Vs The Undertaker - **** - 5 (Armageddon)
The Undertaker Vs Batista - ****1/4 - 6 (Backlash)
30 Man Royal Rumble Match - ****1/4 - 6 (Royal Rumble)
The Undertaker & Batista Vs Shawn Michaels & John Cena - ****1/4 - 6 (No Way Out)
Randy Orton Vs Shawn Michaels - ****1/4 - 6 (Survivor Series)
Batista Vs The Undertaker - ****1/2 - 7 (Survivor Series)
Batista Vs The Undertaker - ****1/2 - 7 (Cyber Sunday)
The Undertaker Vs Batista - ****1/2 - 7 (WrestleMania)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I do remember watching a Funks/Road Warriors match from Japan. Thought that was really good, not sure on the date though.

May have been 10/19/1985. Although it could have been the one in '86. 

I keep fucking saying this but I myself need to watch some damn Funk at some point.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

High spots has this. I wanna get it at some point. Anyone have it and love it? 












SINGLES
Terry Funk vs. Jumbo Tsuruta (06/11/76)
Terry Funk vs. Abdullah the Butcher (07/18/79)
Terry Funk vs. Tor Kamata (12/03/79)
Terry Funk vs. Dory Funk Jr. (04/30/81)
TAG TEAM

Terry & Dory Funk Jr. vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Rocky Hata (12/2/77)
Terry & Dory Funk Jr. vs. The Shiek & Abdullah the Butcher in a best two out of three falls match (7/15/79)
Terry & Dory Funk Jr. vs. Abdullah The Butcher & The Sheik (12/13/79)
Terry Funk & Ted Dibiase vs. Abdullah The Butcher & Ray Candy (05/01/80)
Terry & Dory Funk Jr. vs. Harley Race & Dick Slater (12/09/82)
Terry & Dory Funk Jr. vs. Stan Hanson & Terry Gordy (08/31/83)
PUERTO RICO

Terry Funk vs. Barry Windham (1986 Universal Champion Tournament Quaterfinals)
Terry Funk vs. Rick Martel (1986 Universal Champion Tournament Semifinals)
Terry Funk vs. Carlos Colon (1986 Universal Champion Tournament Finals)
Terry & Dory Funk Jr. vs. The Road Warriors
Terry Funk vs. TNT
Terry & Dory Funk Jr., and Ron Starr vs. Invader I, Invader III, and Mil Mascaras
HARDCORE

Terry Funk vs. Atsushi Onita (Barbedwire Exploding Ring Death Match, 5/5/93)
Terry Funk vs. Mr. Pogo (Electrified Barbed Wire Rope, Exploding Barbed Wire Pit Death Match , Pogo hurts himself legitly and can not continue)
Terry Funk & Hiroshi Ono vs. Shoji Nakamaki & Nobutaka Araya (Fire Death Match, 11/13/94)
Terry Funk vs. Leatherface (Steel Cage Match,11/17/94)
Terry Funk vs. Leatherface (Barbed Wire and Chain, 1995)
Terry Funk vs. Tiger Jeet Singh (Glass and Barbed Wire, 1995)
Terry Funk vs. Cactus Jack (No Rope, Electrified Barbed Wire Explosion, 1995)
Terry Funk & Mr. Pogo vs. Masato Tanaka & Hayabusa (No Rope Explosive Barbed Wire Time Bomb Land Mine Double Hell Death match, 5/5/96)
Terry Funk vs. Hiromichi Fuyuki (Loser Leaves Match, 9/27/97)
LEGEND

Terry Funk vs. Bret Hart
Terry & Dory Funk Jr. vs.Yoshinori Sasaki & Naohiko Yamazaki (11/23/99)
Terry Funk & Heath Herring vs. Satoshi Kojima & Hiroshi Hase (01/19/03)
Bonus Footage:

Terry Funk NWA Legends Fanfest Q&A Preview
Full Case of Tales with Terry Funk & Harley Race Preview
INDYS

Terry Funk vs. Hawk (1993)
Terry Funk vs. Doug Gilbert (Chain Match, 3/13/1997)
Terry Funk, Ian Rotten & Danny Daniels vs. Chris Candido, Steve Stone & BJ Whitmer (12/12/04)
Terry Funk vs. Dusty Rhodes (Texas Bunkhouse Falls Count Anywhere Match, 05/07/05)
Terry Funk vs. Dustin Rhodes with special referee Mick Foley (11/19/05)
Terry Funk vs. Dusty Rhodes (Cage Match, 12/03/05)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Watching Funk/Hansen 4/14/83 should be the #1 thing anybody does after reading this sentence.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I've got Goodhelmet's massive Funk comp and the Highspots Funk In ECW Set.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Funk/Jumbo 2/3 Falls match from AJPW 1976 is absolutely tremendous. That should be your other priority after watching Funk/Hansen.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

#ROOT said:


> *2007 PPV Rambles – End of Year Thoughts*
> 
> 2007 is over and done with, and that's 100 Rambles down!!! Only got 2008 and 2009 to go and then that'll be it for my PPV rambles. After that I'll probably do all the SummerSlam and Survivor Series PPV's that I haven't already done. Anyway, 07 was definitely a mixed year. A bunch of shit, but the high end stuff we got was absolutely tremendous!
> 
> ...


survivor series 2007 looks a good watch for those two main events


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Survivor Series 07 is a p. good show. Always had a soft spot for that fun tag titles match too. It was like "what is this doing on here" but then it was like "i'm glad this was on here". Cade & Murdoch had a p. swell 2007. That's a mega accomplish for tag teams around that time as they never got to do ANYTHING.

Stunned Cal has Unforgiven so high up on the list. That's a terrible show outside of Cade/Murdoch vs London & Kendrick, but I guess a score of 9 on the Cal Scale is actually quite poor; even by comparison.

I'll eat my hat that I never wear if I actually love Michaels vs Kennedy 1/2 as much as Cal does. But I see he only has Kane vs Finlay sat down in the average territory & that's great in my eyes. We'll differ here. :evil


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah a score of 9 ain't exactly great . But I did love the hell out of Cena/Orton from the show, and there were a couple of other matches on the card that scored 1 or 2 points so it all added up to a mediocre event overall . 2007 is the worst year for PPV's overall except for 2004 from the rambles I've done too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm so low on that show, the next best thing to me was Beth vs Candice :lol

You'd think I'd get a kick out of seeing Carlito buried on PPV more. But I don't. It's just sooooo bad.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't like the HIAC match nearly as much as CAL does. Easily the least good of the 5 matches they had in 2007. Below the four star mark and Orton/HBK is easily superior imo. Haven't seen the elimination tag but I should give it a shot just based on the participants. Only seen the promo with Kane talking about Katie Vick. :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Never been crazy about their HIAC either. But I know I prefer it over their mediocre cage match. Taker outworking a bad Batista w/only one arm is something though. Basically the fear of Batista bring down the matches happened w/that one. I'm only kind of in love w/WM & Cyber Sunday when it comes to all of their matches, tbhayley.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Love the cage match too so I have no gripes with that one. Although I have heard that the finish was edited for TV so that it looked like their feet touched the floor simultaneously. But meh, I'll just view it the way they showed it. Never mentioned it here but I also finally got around to watch their street fight on Smackdown before Backlash 2008 a couple of months back and although it was enjoyable, it's below their 2007 series. What else do they have other than "lowblows with chairs are illegal" from TLC?

About to finish the final Smackdown episode then I've made it to Fully Loaded. :mark: lol @ the segment with HHH playing nice towards this man and his kid and taking them to get The Rock's autograph then Benoit and Shane show up and attack him. And wow is this Right to Censor theme annoying with that damn siren. :lol

edit: Awesome main event with Benoit & HHH vs Rock & Jericho. A complete WAR, now this is how you build a PPV. WWE should watch this and think about where they went wrong.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

HONEY BUCKETS REVIEWS:

*BARELY LEGAL PART ONE *

BARELY FUCKING LEGAL LADIES AND GENTS...THIS IS ECW'S FIRST EVER PPV

THE WORLD WAS QUAKING AT THEIR BOOTS AND...no, they weren't.

WE ARE LIVE FROM THE EEEE CEEEE DOUBLE YOU ARENAAAAAA! Joseph H Styles is in the ring and the mic IS NOT WORKING. He keeps talking anyway like the pro he is.

Joseph is still talking, and HERE COME THE DUDLEYS. They just walk in unannounced. 'FUCK YOU D-VON' chants instantly. Jesus Christ this is gonna be a long start. D-Von gets the mic and THE MIC STILL DOESN'T FUCKING WORK. NOBODY CAN HEAR YOU DICKHEAD. Either this is a bad mic or it really will sound bad all night. '...TESTIFY' brings us in to the opening credits. Fucking hell.

After the credits, Joel Gertner is in the ring and he makes his usual devious and seedy entrance BUT NOBODY CAN HEAR HIM COS THE SOUND IS SO SHITE. He introduces The Dudleys... which I can hear at least. AND HERE COME THE ELIMINATORS. 

*MATCH ONE: ECW TAG TEAM TITLES: THE DUDLEYS vs. THE ELIMINATORS*
They want their belts back. Sign Guy gets WASTED early on. Kronus gets worked on early. Awesome move by The Dudleys with a vertical suplex mixed with a cross body. Dudleys look for the 3D but Kronus does a spinning kick. This crowd is SO FUCKING QUIET. Kronus kicks D-Von in the back of the head then Saturn kicks him in the front, like a Total Elimination but not quite. God this SO FUCKING CHOREOGRAPHED. WHY DON'T ALL FOUR OF YOU START FUCKING DANCING FOR FUCK SAKE. The crowd does not give a fucking shit about this match. Neither do I, even though I like all four of these guys. Oh look, STEREO 450 SPLASHES JUST BECAUSE. This is FUCKING STUPID. JUST PIN THEM ALREADY. Saturn sault to the outside just because. Then Kronus almost KILLS himself doing the same. Joey Styles almost kills himself saying how great Kronus is. Back in the ring, more FLIP FLOP FLIPPITY FLOPPITY BULLSHIT as Kronus does some ballet impressions and inflicts more 'pain' on the Dudleys. THIS IS FUCKING STUPID. END THIS SHIT NOW. Right now, The Dudleys are literally getting NO offence, it's all flip flop Eliminators shite. A springboard moonsault JUST BECAUSE from Saturn. Cos why not right? Fuck this match. Yes, The Eliminators win and become new tag champs. Just a fucking 'LOOK AT ME' fest! What a load of shit. Naturally, the crowd loved it. I wish they all died. Total Elimination to Bubba FINALLY FUCKING ENDS IT. Jesus that took AGES. Joel Gertner is in there and obviously he gets MERKED. Even fucking Ray Charles could see that coming. STUPID.
Rating: *

Video package of The Sandman with cool music and him HITTING PEOPLE WITH SHIT.

*Chris Candido* is in the ring with a busted arm. In a sling. Think it's legit. He says alot of stuff about being in WWF and Tom Pritchard and gets the usual 'ur a proper wrassler man!' reactions. He calls out the Sandman but backtracks cos he has a weak arm. Same to Stevie Richards. Then to Terry Funk. Blah blah blah get on with it.

*MATCH TWO: I HAVE NO PERSONALITY vs. MR MONDAY NIGHT*
Lance Storm has HORRIBLE HAIR. Fucking jesus. No wonder the guy is so fucking boring nowadays. Scared people will mention any personality he has left. Is this another flippity floppity fest? Oh fucking christ it is. You know, Lance Storm is a good wrestler but...I'm boring myself writing this. Fuck Lance Storm. His hair is AWFUL. Rob Van Dam is taking him to school as poor Storm is being treated like a rookie cunt. I CANNOT STAND THIS FUCKING FLIPPITY FLOPPITY HIGH FLYING BULLSHIT. Van Dam does a nice dive there but Storm counters with a nice suplex. Yes I'm talking about wrestling and boring myself to death. The crowd STILL DOES NOT FUCKING GIVE A SHIT. Storm almost KILLS HIMSELF by planting himself on the concrete outside which gets a HUGE guffaw from yours truly. Storm gets whacked with a chair in the ring. God this match is so fucking CHOREOGRAPHED. FUCK THIS. FAST FORWARD TIL THE END. Basically a squash but Storm kicks out now and again. Storm is getting WASTED. Chairs to the face. You name it. Just take the pin mate, fucking jesus. No wait, Storm comes back and dumps RVD on his head ON DA CHAIR. AW MAH GAWD! Storm has a nice floatover into a Boston Crab which gets the wrasslin nerds clapping like a bunch of shrivelled dicks. Shoulder blocks, then Van Dam drops a vicious leg drop onto hapless Storm when his head is on the apron. Now that was cool. This match is actually pretty cool! More flippity floppity shit. Storm hits a PATHETIC CHAIRSHOT - capitalised cos it really was BAD - to Van Dam then hits a Tigerbomb on the motherfucking chair to make up for it for two. Legdrop on the chair which was so fucking set up. The fans clip clapping at ringside makes me want to shit all over their stupid faces. Bunch of fucking dicks. Van Dam botches a slingshot elbow off the middle rope. Fuck sake. 'YOU FUCKED UP' chants reign down. Storm hits another PATHETIC CHAIR SHOT to Van Dam to the head. What the fuck man. Crowd HATED that. THEN HE DOES IT AGAIN. THE CROWD ARE BOOING ALL OVER THE FUCKING SHOP. LANCE STORM YOU SUCK. USE SOME FORCE MAN. Then Van Dam wakes the crowd up with the Van Daminator, then a _needless_ flip and then the pin. VAN DAM WINS. Pretty good match minus the numerous botches and pathetic bits of offence.
Rating: **1/2

Afterwards RVD is PISSED. He basically says he's worth more than ECW combined. This is during his time before he became a part time wrassler with the WWF.

*PART TWO LATER ON.*


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I pop in to post this tune up match not to tout this as being quality, but to point out that I have never seen this until today and this Matt Hardy look is just terrible. Super generic long light blue trunks with Matt Hardy on the sides in awkwardly large white letters, that awkward haircut, elbow pads with the mid-late 90sMichaels-esque wrist covers without the Michaels color schemes, no facial hair. Not near an impressive enough physique to compensate. Just brutal. Yes, Hardy is a jobber here but this harsh by even jobber standards.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

> God this SO FUCKING CHOREOGRAPHED. WHY DON'T ALL FOUR OF YOU START FUCKING DANCING FOR FUCK SAKE.


why have I never thought of using this line?? "Might as well have been dancing" should be the go-to insult for inorganic-looking rubbish.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll be sure to use that the next time I want to zing Eddie vs Malenko matches for being the worst kind of bullshit.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

I'm glad you guys liked my review cos I had a lot of fun writing it. Can't wait to do Part Two.

FLIPPITY FLOPPITY FLIP FLOP BULLSHIT


----------



## Undertaker777 (Nov 11, 2006)

This is my first post in 6 years. Some of you may remember me.

2 days ago, I thought of an idea to get myself and others in a WrestleMania mood. With WrestleMania in (at the time) 23 days, I decided to review a match from the WrestleMania that corresponded to the number of days till WM. Here is my review of Batista vs. Undertaker from that show.










With 23 days to WrestleMania 31, I am reviewing WrestleMania 23's World Heavyweight Title match: Batista (c) vs. The Undertaker. After winning the Royal Rumble in January, Undertaker vowed to win the World Title from Batista. With The Best Pure Striker in WWE History and the Animal, one would expect a slugfest. And that's what it is. 

After 50 seconds of brawling to get us started, Batista gives Undertaker a clothesline to the outside floor. In classic Undertaker style, he lands on his feet. He is not to be afraid of the World Champion: a story told from the get-go. After several exchanges of fists along with damage done by the barricade and the ring, Batista throws 'Taker into the steel steps: the peek of this brawl outside. 

Upon re-entering the ring, Batista jumps off the top rope, giving The Undertaker a clothesline. As noted by announcer Michael Cole, this is unorthodox of Batista. This was done to show Batista has to step outside his comfort zone to beat the Phenom. After several textbook Undertaker moves--the corner-to-corner clothesline, Snake Eyes, the running big boot, and Old School, The Undertaker attempts to chokeslam Batista. Batista is shown powering the forearm of the Deadman off, preventing 'Taker from using one of his finishing moves. At 6'10 and 305 pounds, The Undertaker is very rarely outpowered. This feet of strength and rare sight let us know The Undertaker and his streak were in danger tonight, thanks to the Animal. Each man makes his way out of the ring again.

The slugfest continues on the outside, culminating in the renowned leg drop from the apron, courtesy of the Phenom. After another brief in-ring session, the outside brawling continues. This time, the champion uses his strength to get in control, reversing the Irish whip of The Undertaker, sending the man who is undefeated at WrestleMania, Undertaker, into the chairs and barricade near the announce tables. Batista does not hold back in his brooding beating on the Deadman. 

Upon entering the ring, Batista rolls back out, starting a new count: the outside slugfest continues. After power slamming Undertaker through an announce table, Batista brought 'Taker back into the ring for a pinfall. By kicking out at 2 and then squirming out of the Batista Bomb, Undertaker is showing why he is 14-0 at The Grandest Stage of Them All. 

Following some short-lived 'Taker offence, Batista replies with a belly-to-belly slam on the 305 pounder, justifying his Animal nickname, and successfully creating a Goliath vs. Goliath story.The Undertaker's countering of Batista's punches into a Last Ride strongly conveyed his advantage over Batista: experience. 

'Taker's resiliency is seen once again as he does his trademark sit-up from an Arn Anderson-esque spinebuster from the former Evolution member. However, after hitting the chokeslam, the World Heavyweight Champion kicked out; he, too, is resilient, and also a deserving champion. Perhaps 'Taker's most-impressive display of resilience is the kicking out of the Batista Bomb. This was followed by the Tombstone and a three-count. 

15-0.

If anyone has any feedback, comments, criticism, or suggestions, feel free to post it/them. I tried to not give too much play-by-play, but I figured some is necessary.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Honey Bucket said:


> I'm glad you guys liked my review cos I had a lot of fun writing it. Can't wait to do Part Two.
> 
> FLIPPITY FLOPPITY FLIP FLOP BULLSHIT


plz love the six man but, more importantly, plz SHIT all over Douglas vs Pitbull #2 .


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

So I'm watching Ambrose Rollins HIAC and I'm having some thoughts.

The first one is that Ambrose has headlined two ppvs, but both of them are heavily reliant on gimmicks, what with HIAC and the funky tv and all. So I'm thinking, 

A. They're really protecting Ambrose, which I don't believe, soooo 

B. the current product is heavily saturated with gimmick matches that this green roster needs as a crutch. 

A lot of people give edge shit here for being well versed in the art of gimmick matches. But we are in an era corroded with gimmick ppvs. We get HIAC, MITB, elimination chamber, tlc,extreme rules. I mean Jesus Christ, how fucking hard is it to produce a fucking wrestling match? Or a wrestling card? 

This is one of the biggest turn offs I have with the current product. That and thefact nothing is organic anymore. Years of the lack of producing main event talent, and then shitting on the talent you do produce I.e. Punk, I.e. Bryan, this company is up the creek without a paddle and they have no one to blame but themselves. Plus the drawing power of wrestlemania is predicated with a majority of part timers. Sting. Taker. Brock. Hhh. Don't even want to hear the average age there. 

I don't know if the company is too corporate or if Vince is perhaps crazier than we all think, but I think you'd have to be nuts to think Hhh can realistically reinvent he current product whenever Vince croaks. 

I don't know about you guys, but I'm due for a long break after the shit show that can't even be identified as wrestlemania 31.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It's the 'Vince is crazier than thought' option, most likely. I heard that he said to Hall and Nash at WM 12 that 'he'd rather have a half-full arena cheering for whomever he wanted to, than a jam-packed one cheering for whomever the crowd themselves wanted', which proves how much of a control freak he is and how he wants everything to be his way. He couldn't bother to create new stars over the past few years, because he feels they don't fit his own criteria. For some God forsaken reason. That really identifies w/Reigns currently tbf. And I also agree that the current product is overly reliant on gimmick matches, though I strongly disagree that the roster needs such things as a crutch - the current people are more than skilled enough, probably among the best rosters ever in terms of sheer talent for the company, to not need gimmicks to be good.

And I think people here don't shit on Edge because he's a gimmick match worker; he's had plenty of good gimmick matches - Hardcore vs Foley, HIAC vs Taker and Cage vs Matt Hardy ring the bell. They do because he's kinda spotty at it. Watch the TLC and LMS matches w/Cena as a proof of that. Or the Ladder match w/Jeff.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

as some of you know im a big sting fan

i'm in the mood to watch some of his stuff now

just stuck left thinking whether to watch matches on their own or with the PPV?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watch with the PPV... that way you are likely to actually see a GOOD match too 8*D.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

sting/ddp jan 1996 nitro
sting/ric flair 1996 nitro

i havent seent these


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Can't imagine either of them being good tbh lol.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

sting/davey boy smith vs vader/sid vicious beach blast 1993

any thoughts on wcw battlebowl 1993?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I remember liking the Shockmaster & Orndorff/Regal & Steamer and Austin & Flair/Scorpio & whoever he teamed with (thinking Jerry Saggs or Maxx Payne) tags, but overall I kinda really don't like that show. Battlebowls in general kinda sucked.

Anyways, found an interesting, albeit seriously against my opinion top 15 SD matches ever list on YT, and that made me go on the hunt for a few SD gems. Two of them I saw on the list itself - Mysterio/Angle, from 9/12/2002 and 1/23/2003 respectively. The 1/23 match is pretty much SummerSlam '02's twin for the most part, even repeating plenty of the same spots/sequences, but is that really a bad thing? Plus, I'd argue the ending was better than SS's. The 9/12 match, however, was pretty fucking AWESOME. The 1st half was absolutely perfect, w/this super fun cat and mouse game that saw Angle in peak form when it comes to heel work and Rey just being Rey; and while the 2nd saw a very atypical finishing stretch of what I'd expect from these two (Angle moreso), it was still done right enough to not make me feel too bothered. Seriously great match. If I had to throw out stars, would give it ***3/4-****, whereas around ***1/2 would be the ideal 1/23/03 rating. 

And I also saw a 3 minute Kane/Rhyno match from 2001 that was fun enough, even if it saw dozens and dozens of interference (including the Powertrip who tried to break his arm), would give from * to *1/2 depending on the generosity.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Sorry for the double post, but guys, wanted to say two things:

1) SHAMELESSLY WANT TO PLUG THE GAME I CAME UP WITH ON THE GAMES & TRIVIA SECTION, BECAUSE CAL GETS TO PLUG HIS OWN BLOG SO I GET TO PLUG MY GAME TOO:
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/games-trivia/1610202-matchchart.html

2)... The Shield rules. Had to improvise a little there :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Speaking of plugging MY BLOG~! this week's PPV Ramble is Unforgiven 2006, where I shit all over what a lot of people have claimed to be one of the better single branded PPV's ever. Which is HILARIOUS because it's nowhere near being one of the better ones :lmao.

Well my 08 and 09 rambles are gonna be somewhat delayed, because I only have 5 2008 PPV's, and I've done 1 of them already (NO MERCY, aka the FIRST ramble!!!). Then I have 1 2009 PPV :lmao. Not counting WM and RR obviously. Think I might have like, 1 2009 PPV on Bluray, but I like to watch these on my PC and write at the same time, and I have to go downstairs to watch a bluray.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

That would have to be cue for you, Cal, to instead of buying the shows, drop away some NAYNE NAYNEE NAYNE :jbl

(beware of potential shitty quality tho)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I can't afford £9.99 lol. Besides, I'll do what I did for 06 and 07, and just pick up all the ones I need on amazon or something for cheap, pre-owned mostly. And then I'll own them for life rather than a month .

Oh yeah, these have been added, made by meeeeeeeee:

:hogan

:bob


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Anyways, found an interesting, albeit seriously against my opinion top 15 SD matches ever list on YT, and that made me go on the hunt for a few SD gems. Two of them I saw on the list itself - Mysterio/Angle, from 9/12/2002 and 1/23/2003 respectively. The 1/23 match is pretty much SummerSlam '02's twin for the most part, even repeating plenty of the same spots/sequences, but is that really a bad thing? Plus, I'd argue the ending was better than SS's. The 9/12 match, however, was pretty fucking AWESOME. The 1st half was absolutely perfect, w/this super fun cat and mouse game that saw Angle in peak form when it comes to heel work and Rey just being Rey; and while the 2nd saw a very atypical finishing stretch of what I'd expect from these two (Angle moreso), it was still done right enough to not make me feel too bothered. Seriously great match. If I had to throw out stars, would give it ***3/4-****, whereas around ***1/2 would be the ideal 1/23/03 rating.


I of course ADORE the Angle/Rey Summerslam match, so ill check out that SD rematch. Thx.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

BOB

That smiley wins the internet. We need more BOB in our lives.















And by that, I mean SPONGEBOB (Backlund's more than cool tho) 8*D


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Lets talk dvds and blu rays, maggle!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I want to punch Cal's stoopid ginger face whenever he says Sting only has like two good matches. Especially when he talks down about the Vader strap match. It's better than every Undertaker match ever you red penis.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You can't see me right now, but I'm laughing. A lot. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

And Sting has like, 5 good matches .


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

list them ROOT


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I would, but I don't actually REMEMBER which matches are the good ones . The Regal in 96, DDP in 99, and then some VADER ones. Not the strap match though. I don't hate it or think it's a pile of shit like a certain someone would try and make you believe, but it's not even close to being their best match together.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

might watch HBK/Taker wrestlemania matches, and then HHH/Taker wrestlemania


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Wtf at Mankind blatantly breaking kayfabe before the Mankind/Rock/Shamrock cage match at Breakdown: In Your House.

He said that the People's Elbow is on the list of stupidest things ever, and "if you think I'm going to sell for that abortion, you thought wrong."

lmao, wtf, how'd he get away with that, and how does everyone not remember that?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Jesus it was at a PPV?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I didn't know sCALe was a Sting hater. If I did I forgot. Sting rules. 

I love that triple threat cage match. Just watched it the other day. Laughed my ass off at that Foley comment.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

LilOlMe said:


> Wtf at Mankind blatantly breaking kayfabe before the Mankind/Rock/Shamrock cage match at Breakdown: In Your House.
> 
> He said that the People's Elbow is on the list of stupidest things ever, and "if you think I'm going to sell for that abortion, you thought wrong."
> 
> lmao, wtf, how'd he get away with that, and how does everyone not remember that?


And funnily enough in that match he sold it along with Shamrock for the first Double People's Elbow lmao. Mick was just a master of crowd manipulation, he knew the double PE spot was coming, and he knew the crowd that night was heavily pro Rock, so he just threw that in there for laughs. Later during their title feud he started doing his own People's Elbow to mock Rock.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Fully Loaded 2000:*

T&A and Trish Stratus vs Hardy Boyz and Lita - ★★★¼
Tazz vs Al Snow - ★★½
Eddie Guerrero vs Perry Saturn - ★★¼
Edge & Christian vs APA - ★★¼
Rikishi vs Val Venis - ★★★½
Undertaker vs Kurt Angle - ★★
Triple H vs Chris Jericho - ★★★★¼
The Rock vs Chris Benoit - ★★★★½

- Just an enjoyable PPV top to bottom. Not every match is great and the lesser stuff range from mediocre to watchable but that's the key with this show. It's consistent in that you can put it on from the first minute and watch all the way to the end and have a blast.

- The triple main event had a disappointing glorified squash starting it off but holy fuck, did the two main matches rock the house. LMS is fantastic but I'm more in the side of the title match. If there ever was any doubt of The Rock's ability to plain go in the ring, this puts all that to rest. He goes move for move with arguably the greatest in-ring wrestler without ever looking lost or behind. That little fake finish with the DQ still makes me laugh just for JR's commentary and stuff being thrown into the ring. I kinda wish Benoit had won the title and lost it in a rematch to The Rock the night or week after, just to be able to call him a former WWF/E Champion as well.

- This show and its build-up makes me despise the current product even more than I already do. Look at everything they do here and compare it to the latest PPV we had last month for example. It's night and day. A throwaway midcard tag match in the opening has a way hotter crowd than today's main events tend to do. The build-up was also greatly done on all feuds and other than Angle looking too silly and not benefiting from it, Jericho and Benoit came out of this looking like main event stars that look like the top guys' equals.

- Putting that aside, they also build those feuds perfectly because despite some comedic starts, the way they sell the hatred between the opponents is something completely missing today. Nowadays "epic rivalries" start because two wrestlers are booked in the same match against each other for a month until their "big PPV match" that absolutely no one in the world cares about. Here, we get the flash, the substance and the perfect presentation. This show is worth all the hype and then some.

- Also worth mentioning that Rock vs Benoit is likely going to be my MOTY for this year. I don't like the Foley vs Triple H matches as much as others here, I prefer it to the last man standing preceding it as well as any Rock vs HHH match. So I guess that clears all competition because I'm not aware of any matches from this point forward that are as hyped up, TV or PPV, other than the first TLC at SummerSlam which I've seen before and wouldn't rate higher than Rock vs Benoit.

Using the CAL SCALE, the number I get is *21.5*. So I walk away looking at this PPV as a success!


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Jesus it was at a PPV?


Yep.



KingLobos said:


> And funnily enough in that match he sold it along with Shamrock for the first Double People's Elbow lmao. Mick was just a master of crowd manipulation, he knew the double PE spot was coming, and he knew the crowd that night was heavily pro Rock, so he just threw that in there for laughs. Later during their title feud he started doing his own People's Elbow to mock Rock.


Yeah, when I saw the double People's Elbow, I smiled. Foley did sell it.

I don't know why Foley would insist on doing the People's Elbow in the opposite direction when he would do it, though, lol. When people do each other's moves, they usually do it how the person does it.



Edge/Orton at Raw 7/19/04 was great, and probably more enjoyable than their Vengeance match, for those who prefer quicker matches.

I love how they each would go for the same move multiple times during the match, and that spinning drop toehold from Orton was beautiful. This is probably some of the most that I've seen Edge actually wrestler. Just seemed like too super competitive young guys constantly going in for the kill, and trying to outdo each other on the way for the title. 

That spear Edge got on Orton when Orton had the chair, was one of his better looking spears.

Interesting that this approach was so different than the approach they had to their match just one week earlier.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I can't think of a match in 2000 I like more than Trips/Foley No Way Out Hell in a Cell. I know the RR is more popular and I love that match too but the NWO match is my fave of the two. 

That Rock/Pegasus match was great. Pretty sure that was their only PPV match. I could be wrong. I will have to watch that tonight. Not sure what match I like more Rock/Pegasus or HHH/Jericho LMS. 

Fuck it. I'm going the full ***** with Warrior/Savage at WM 7. Can't find a problem with it. I'm always up for watching it and never bored with it. Savage is a God damn beast in this match and I love the end how Warrior pins Savage like Savage use to pin face jobbers.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> Edge/Orton at Raw 7/19/04 was great, and probably more enjoyable than their Vengeance match, for those who prefer quicker matches.
> 
> I love how they each would go for the same move multiple times during the match, and that spinning drop toehold from Orton was beautiful. This is probably some of the most that I've seen Edge actually wrestler. Just seemed like too super competitive young guys constantly going in for the kill, and trying to outdo each other on the way for the title.
> 
> ...


Love that match. I'd probably have Vengeance above it but this one is more fun to watch because it's shorter and in many ways, does what the PPV match did in shorter amount of time while accomplishing as much.

Have you seen their match from 10 May 2004? I know you went through their other good matches because they were featured in my Orton list two years ago but not this one.

---------------------

Watching Raw after FL and Big Show has returned. The first thing he does after coming for Shane? Turn heel and align with him. Some things just never change. :lmao


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Few questions,

Has there been a match/PPV you thought nothing of and turned out to be better than your expectations/great? Same with match/PPV you were pumped for and turned out to be trash?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sheamus/Big Show at HIAC 2012. Somehow those two had great chemistry and knocked it out of the park. Pleasantly surprised by Cena/Batista LMS as well. Oh, and Orton/Triple H LMS at No Mercy 2007.

As for a match I was pumped for and turned out to be trash. Rock/Punk at Royal Rumble would be the obvious one. Hmm, Undertaker/Kane from HIAC 2010. Oh, and I don't know if this counts because I wasn't alive at the time, but I had high expectations going into watching the Austin/Windham series of matches from 1992. All of their matches though were boring.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

ATF said:


> It's the 'Vince is crazier than thought' option, most likely. I heard that he said to Hall and Nash at WM 12 that 'he'd rather have a half-full arena cheering for whomever he wanted to, than a jam-packed one cheering for whomever the crowd themselves wanted', which proves how much of a control freak he is and how he wants everything to be his way. He couldn't bother to create new stars over the past few years, because he feels they don't fit his own criteria. For some God forsaken reason. That really identifies w/Reigns currently tbf. And I also agree that the current product is overly reliant on gimmick matches, though I strongly disagree that the roster needs such things as a crutch - the current people are more than skilled enough, probably among the best rosters ever in terms of sheer talent for the company, to not need gimmicks to be good.
> 
> And I think people here don't shit on Edge because he's a gimmick match worker; he's had plenty of good gimmick matches - Hardcore vs Foley, HIAC vs Taker and Cage vs Matt Hardy ring the bell. They do because he's kinda spotty at it. Watch the TLC and LMS matches w/Cena as a proof of that. Or the Ladder match w/Jeff.


Sad thing is I, like I'm sure many others, am watching mania in large part just to see the shitshow push and potential flop of roman reigns. This is the total opposite of what wrestling should be, but I don't want to beat a dead horse here. 

Obviously the lack of main event talent has caught up with the e. I mean, there are legitimately one or two guys that can feasibly take on lesnar at mania. You have guys like dolph and Ambrose and Sheamus and del rio and jack swagger hell even wade Barrett who have been given main event pushes, so to speak, yet none of those guys can really compare to the previous generation of stars. Maybe dolph and dean break through to become timeless all time talents, maybe not. Point is there are no stone colds or rocks or undertakers, and the one guy that really shattered the glass ceiling was hung out to dry in cm punk. 

Maybe is new generation is capable of putting on great ppvs. I've certainly seen a lot of good work from Cesaro and Harper and bray but this to me is a thin roster and a green roster and it severely lacks firepower. That's why we get Kane and big show shoved down our throats. That's why the majority of manias draws are part timers. 

Vince McMahon has really dug himself into this hole, and corporate wwe looks kind of doomed to me. Part of me expects raw to morph into a total divas format in the next 25 years with minimal wrestling and it wouldn't surprise me. I understand that this is sports entertainment as opposed to pro wrestling, but it feels like the product is starting to rot from the inside out. 

It's why I'll be taking a break from raw after mania. I'll watch nxt, but 3 hours of bullshit that doesn't even matter from week to week is just too much for me. If it weren't for Paul heyman and Brock lesnar and daniel bryan I wouldn't give a flying fuck about the current product. 

And yea, edge may rely on spots, but that's the current product. Everything feels so forced and predetermined.idk. But edge could deliver a hell of a promo and had tons of charisma. I actually don't particularly care for the cena tlc match, but I saw the lms back when it happened and I remember really liking it. I was so pissed when show got thrown into cena edge for mania 25. Those two deserved a mania match, and edge should have gone over. I suppose I can go to a different thread and fantasy book that tho.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I'm going to watch No Mercy 2002. Brock/Taker in the cell is one of my favourite matches. I'm going to have to take a look at the card again and see what else is there. 

World Tag Team Title Match
Chris Jericho & Christian (c) vs. Booker T & Goldust
Singles Match
Dawn Marie vs. Torrie Wilson
Singles Match
Ric Flair vs. Rob Van Dam
WWE Cruiserweight Title Match
Jamie Noble (w/Nidia) (c) vs. Tajiri
World Heavyweight Title / WWE Intercontinental Title Unification Match
Kane (c) vs. Triple H (c)
WWE Tag Team Title Tournament Final Match (vakant)
Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle vs. Edge & Rey Mysterio
World Women's Title Match
Trish Stratus (c) vs. Victoria
WWE Heavyweight Title Hell In A Cell Match
Brock Lesnar (w/Paul Heyman) (c) vs. The Undertaker

What happens in matches that Benoit is in on the Network?

:lmao forgot this was the time around katie vick


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Isn't that the greatest tag match of he millennium?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I've never felt so disconnected and disinterested in wrestling than I do now.

Help.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

@King Kenny There's an advisory everytime you play a PPV that Benoit appears on, stating how the characters don't reflect the persons or something like that.



KidCharlamagne said:


> Isn't that the greatest tag match of he millennium?


Powertrip/Benoit & Jericho says hi. Bangle/Redge (assuming you were referring to it) is very fun but kinda WAAYYY overrated for me, and almost everybody here. Good for you if you like that match more tho, it's your opinion after all, but if you're gonna hang around this thread, you better start getting used to that kind of things


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

NM02 is *****. RAW Tag is ****3/4 because Hunter can't master the art of running (or maybe that makes the match better idk). Which is better is irrelevant, really. Are there any North American tags which even come close to those two within the last 15 years? I'm aware of a few Japanese tags that are apparently really great, but that seems to be it, since Tag Team wrestling has died a death.


----------



## BrockandBryanMARK (Mar 9, 2015)

ATF said:


> Powertrip/Benoit & Jericho says hi. Bangle/Redge (assuming you were referring to it) is very fun but kinda WAAYYY overrated for me, and almost everybody here.


I'd give the latter 5* but the former match is godly.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*** for the No Mercy tag. ***3/4 for the Power Trip/C2 match. We've had plenty of better tag matches than those .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ruiner87 said:


> NM02 is *****. RAW Tag is ****3/4 because Hunter can't master the art of running (or maybe that makes the match better idk). Which is better is irrelevant, really. Are there any North American tags which even come close to those two within the last 15 years? I'm aware of a few Japanese tags that are apparently really great, but that seems to be it, since Tag Team wrestling has died a death.


If 6-Man Tags count, Shield/Wyatts EC murderstomps them both.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

RatedR10 said:


> I've never felt so disconnected and disinterested in wrestling than I do now.
> 
> Help.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KidCharlamagne said:


> Isn't that the greatest tag match of he millennium?


It's not even a _good_ match. Let alone that.



RatedR10 said:


> I've never felt so disconnected and disinterested in wrestling than I do now.
> 
> Help.







It happened. And it's incredible. Proof the Hardys are still excellent today. TAG TEAM RASSLIN.






Might be the coolest match ever.


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

Ruiner87 said:


> NM02 is *****. RAW Tag is ****3/4 because Hunter can't master the art of running (or maybe that makes the match better idk). Which is better is irrelevant, really. Are there any North American tags which even come close to those two within the last 15 years? I'm aware of a few Japanese tags that are apparently really great, but that seems to be it, since Tag Team wrestling has died a death.


The American Wolves vs. Bryan Danielson & Tyler Black - ROH Tag Title Classic. IMO just as good as those 2 matches you mentioned.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

ATF said:


> @King Kenny There's an advisory everytime you play a PPV that Benoit appears on, stating how the characters don't reflect the persons or something like that.
> 
> 
> 
> Powertrip/Benoit & Jericho says hi. Bangle/Redge (assuming you were referring to it) is very fun but kinda WAAYYY overrated for me, and almost everybody here. Good for you if you like that match more tho, it's your opinion after all, but if you're gonna hang around this thread, you better start getting used to that kind of things


I've been lurking this thread since before I joined in 08. Only thread on this forum worth paying attention to.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The great thing about 1996/1997 WWF is I always find gems that I didn't know existed. That Mankind/Owen match was fun.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

KidCharlamagne said:


> I've been lurking this thread since before I joined in 08. Only thread on this forum worth paying attention to.


Never saw you dude, that's really cool 8)

We should start our own Official DVD Thread Hall Of Fame - or better yet, OUR OWN FORUM - OR EVEN BETTER: *AN E-FED *8*D


----------



## TomTom94 (Oct 18, 2013)

*day one of match-reveals for the jerry lawler set* (source - http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/jerry-lawler-week-1-dvd-match-reveals/83375/)

— Empty Arena Match
Jerry Lawler vs. Terry Funk
Memphis Wrestling • April 25, 1981

— Jerry Lawler vs. Eddie Gilbert
Pro-Wrestling USA • October 20, 1984

— Jerry Lawler vs. Curt Hennig
AWA Championship Wrestling • March 12, 1988

— AWA & WCCW Championship Unification Match
Jerry Lawler vs. Kerry Von Erich
World Class Championship Wrestling • September 24, 1988

— Casket Match
Jerry Lawler vs. The Undertaker
WWE @ White Plains, NY • September 28, 1994

— Jerry Lawler & Nova vs. The Prototype (John Cena) & Sean O’Haire
OVW Wrestling • June 28, 2002


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yey empty arena match :mark:.

Ain't seen the Gilbert match.

OVW match likely sucks tbh lol, but interesting I guess...

And the rest are... repeats. Seriously? Fucking REPEATS? Along with the 85 minute documentary for a 40+ year career, this set isn't getting off to the best start. Congrats WWE, you did it again! Morons.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

ATF said:


> If 6-Man Tags count, Shield/Wyatts EC murderstomps them both.


I disqualified six-mans, and multi-tags in general, because at that point you potentially have to include the TLC matches and such. It's pretty much impossible for WWE to put on a bad six-man tag. They have those things down to a science.



> The American Wolves vs. Bryan Danielson & Tyler Black - ROH Tag Title Classic. IMO just as good as those 2 matches you mentioned.


I'll check it out at some point.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Orton vs. Wyatt happened at an Allentown, PA house show yesterday. Surprised they went with the match considering the Taker build, kinda more surprised that Orton went over. I'd like to see it if video ever surfaced.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Bryan set June 2nd. Hoping it doesn't suck/have a bunch of repeats. Pretty shitty name. It's called Just Say Yes! Yes! Yes!. Was hoping for Countdown to YES! or something like that. This could be excellent. If you were in charge what matches would you put on it?


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

ATF said:


> Never saw you dude, that's really cool 8)
> 
> We should start our own Official DVD Thread Hall Of Fame - or better yet, OUR OWN FORUM - OR EVEN BETTER: *AN E-FED *8*D


All of my old posts that got positive rep have expired so I can no longer see what I said


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Lawler matches scared the piss out of me b/c I thought you meant *disc* one. :lmao What a shock they had to put a Cena match on the Lawler set. I bet they're scurrying their archives for a Lawler/Terra Ryzing that nobody wants.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Bryan set June 2nd. Hoping it doesn't suck/have a bunch of repeats. Pretty shitty name. It's called Just Say Yes! Yes! Yes!. Was hoping for Countdown to YES! or something like that. This could be excellent. If you were in charge what matches would you put on it?


I'm struggling to really think of anything great that Bryan has been involved in that hasn't been released yet, or at least that I don't own already. Maybe the Cage match with Henry, RAW late 2014 match against Orton, or the Bragging Rights match with Ziggler? Other than those two, I own both matches with Punk, Summerslam vs. Cena, Extreme Rules vs. Sheamus, TV matches against Orton & Rollins, Night of Champions vs. Miz, etc etc.

I'm sure the match listing quality wise will be fantastic, but I just don't think there's enough unreleased material that will lead me to wanna buy it. I can basically watch everything they'll include on the Network, I imagine.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Don't own any recent Wrestling DVD's/Blu ray's so don't know what's unreleased but for a Bryan set

V Jericho on the first NXT
V The Miz Night Of Champions 2010
V Dolph Ziggler Bragging Rights 2010
Money In The Bank ladder match 2011
V Wade Barrett Summerslam 2011
V Henry cage match on Smackdown
v Sheamus Extreme Rules 2012
V CM Punk Over The Limit 2012
v CM Punk Money In The Bank 2012
W/Kane V Kofi and R Truth Night Of Champions 2012
Gauntlet match on Raw 2013
v The Ryback Smackdown cant remember the date, June/July 2013 time
V John Cena Summerslam 2013
W/CM Punk V The Wyatt Family Survivor Series 2013
V Randy Orton Raw December 2013
V Bray Wyatt Royal Rumble 2014
V Triple H Wrestlemania XXX
V Batista V Orton Wrestlemania XXX
V Kane Extreme Rules 2014


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I'm struggling to really think of anything great that Bryan has been involved in that hasn't been released yet, or at least that I don't own already. Maybe the Cage match with Henry, RAW late 2014 match against Orton, or the Bragging Rights match with Ziggler? Other than those two, I own both matches with Punk, Summerslam vs. Cena, Extreme Rules vs. Sheamus, TV matches against Orton & Rollins, Night of Champions vs. Miz, etc etc.
> 
> I'm sure the match listing quality wise will be fantastic, but I just don't think there's enough unreleased material that will lead me to wanna buy it. I can basically watch everything they'll include on the Network, I imagine.


Is the Bryan/Rollins match from Raw on 6-10-2013 on the best of Raw/SD set? That match was fantastic. I know it's on the network.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Is the Bryan/Rollins match from Raw on 6-10-2013 on the best of Raw/SD set? That match was fantastic. I know it's on the network.


Nah it didn't make that set but they added it as an extra on the Payback 2013 Blu Ray. That and the Shield's first loss on Smackdown against Hell No & Orton. (Y)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

LilOlMe said:


> Wtf at Mankind blatantly breaking kayfabe before the Mankind/Rock/Shamrock cage match at Breakdown: In Your House.
> 
> He said that the People's Elbow is on the list of stupidest things ever, and "if you think I'm going to sell for that abortion, you thought wrong."
> 
> lmao, wtf, how'd he get away with that, and how does everyone not remember that?


That wasn't even the best or the funniest time he did that.

Foley channeled his inner Dr. Seuss when he delivered these lines in a promo, this is certainly worthy of a Hardcore Legend imo: "I will not sell it on a plane, I will not sell it on a train, I will not sell it here nor there, I will not sell it ANYWHERE! Rock, you're going down!" :lmao That's not a word for word quote, but it's close enough. Yes, Mick Foley managed to quote Dr. Seuss's Green Eggs and Ham in a promo about not selling the Rock's Elbow. If anyone has ever been truly bullet proof in wrestling, it's gotta be Mick Foley. He can do whatever he wants, say whatever he wants, lose all of his matches, and everyone still loves him.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i feel like watching jericho/punk from payback 2013 (only one i havent seen of their series i think) and also havent seen that PPV either, is it worth it?


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Most people shit on it but I really liked it. ***3/4

Dolph/Del Rio's great and the triple threat is better than it had any right to be.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> i feel like watching jericho/punk from payback 2013 (only one i havent seen of their series i think) and also havent seen that PPV either, is it worth it?


I thought the match sucked balls because it was overkill central and nothing but trading finishers for several minute straight, but the show overall is somewhat solid. Del Rio/Ziggler is the only thing I'd call great from the PPV, but the Tag Title match and (surprisingly) Cena/Ryback 3SOH are both good. AJ/Kaitlyn is watchable too.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

More content revealed for Jerry Lawler's DVD:

— TLC Match for the WWE Championship
The Miz vs. Jerry Lawler
RAW • November 29, 2010

— After Raw Birthday Celebration
RAW • November 29, 2010

— Jerry Lawler vs. Michael Cole
Special Guest Referee: Stone Cold Steve Austin
WrestleMania XXVII • April 3, 2011

Link - http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/jerry-lawler-week-2-dvd-match-reveals/83469/


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Lawler vs. Cole :ti

Lawler vs. Miz :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

WWE pretty much got The Shield DVD line up spot on, but so far the Lawler set looks disappointing TBH. unless they pull a swerve and put Lawler/Savage in full from Memphis on there next and a couple of other gems, although we have Lawler/Funk official now at least i guess.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Lawler/Cole on the Lawler DVD is horrible

I'm actually looking forward to the set, Doc should be great and I really like the first set of matches announced, I can see why they put the Cole match on as it was his only WM match, just hope it isn't on there at the expense of something rarer/better


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> i feel like watching jericho/punk from payback 2013 (only one i havent seen of their series i think) and also havent seen that PPV either, is it worth it?


Watch Punk's entrance; then turn it off. 

DUD


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao at them putting the WM Cole match on the set :lmao.

At least they put the TLC match on there. So that's... something.

Disappointing match selection + super short documentary = wtf WWE?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

lawler vs cole :lmao

i didnt get to watch the punk/jericho match, was to tired. watched miz/barrett/axel which was surpisingly good and del rio/ziggler which was fantastic


----------



## SMetalWorld (May 7, 2006)

WWE should create a Yokozuna DVD. He was a big time player in early 90's. He main evented 2 Wrestlemanias and a 2 times world champion.

Yokozuna, for his size, is very underrated worker.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> :lmao at them putting the WM Cole match on the set :lmao.
> 
> At least they put the TLC match on there. So that's... something.
> 
> Disappointing match selection + super short documentary = wtf WWE?


You'd think, for a wrestler whose career in the ring was so long, his impact so big, and the veritable smorgasbord of classic matches Lawler was in, that his set would have been among the easiest to nail. The documentally shouldn't be anything under, I don't know, 90 minutes, but I'd prefer to see a 2 hour + movie on him. It pisses me off so much that WWE doesn't realize that the hardcore fans, the type that buy these DVD sets, especially the type to buy a Lawler set, want a doc that goes IN DEPTH with the wrestlers feuds and classic matches. That's what I really want to see, the background and how they grew up stuff is always cool, their personal trials and tribulations are necessary, but what I feel most people really want is to hear the wrestler discuss his noteworthy feuds and classic matches, along with other people sitting in and discussing what they thought of said feuds and matches.

That's why the Foley doc was so on the money for the most part. I wasn't expecting much when I bought it, but then BOOM 30 or so minutes into who should pop up on my screen? BIG VAN FUCKING VADER, that's who. That was so cool how they got Leon to discuss the feud with Cactus Jack. That's the kinda stuff I'm talking about. I LOVED hearing them discuss the MindGames match with Shawn michaels, and I was out and out pissed we didn't get an in depth discussion of the Royal Rumble and NWO matches he had in 2000 with Hunter.

The thing is, Foleys career wasn't nearly as long as Lawlers. Think of the plethora of guys they could bring in to discuss working against Lawler. They'd had to get Fargo of course, definitely Dundee, definitely Terry Funk, definitely Austin Idol and Tommy Rich, they could grab Curtis Axel to discuss the Hennig/Lawler feud, and Lanny Poffo for the Savage feud, and Bret Hart for sure to go over their WWE feud...that's what I really wanted in a Lawler set, along with the best matches from each of those feuds. Is that really so hard? All of those guys would gladly spend an hour or two being interviewed for a Lawler set.



simonitro said:


> WWE should create a Yokozuna DVD. He was a big time player in early 90's. He main evented 2 Wrestlemanias and a 2 times world champion.
> 
> Yokozuna, for his size, is very underrated worker.


If WWE creates a Yoko set before a Vader set I'll be pissed. I harp on it all the time but it's the gods honest truth, Vader is the most under appreciated wrestler in history by the WWE and the casual fan base. He's one of the very best to ever do it, he should have been inducted YEARS ago, along with a 2+ hour doc/15+ match set. Vader only ever says the nicest things about Vince and the WWE, so it's not politics keeping him out. I am just flabbergasted he isn't held in high regard by WWE.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Can't wait for them to put the Gregory Helms and Muhammad Hassan matches on the Lawler set. Don't they fucking own the Memphis footage now? Seriously? You couldn't dust off a Mantel or Idol match?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

That Lawler/Hassan match from NYR 05' is one of the very worst matches I've ever seen between 2 legitimate wrestlers, ever. It's not even "so bad it's good", it's just plain boring and awful. So of course I expecr WWE to put it on the set. They included the match with Cole for christ sake, why not just go all the way with embarrassing Lawler?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Just reading a little bit here and there, some matches I haven't seen (and most likely the events from it too)

Marc Mero and Sable vs The Artist Formerly Known as Goldust and Luna
Cactus Jack & Chainsaw Charlie vs. The New Age Outlaws (c) – Dumpster Match for the Tag Team Championship
Mr. Perfect (with Bobby Heenan) vs. The Big Boss Man
Roddy Piper vs Goldust (with Marlena) – Hollywood Backlot Brawl
Bret “Hitman” Hart vs. Rowdy Roddy Piper

They're all from Wrestlemanias apparently - I just looked around and these are considered "underrated matches" - thoughts?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Hoping for Lawler/Savage on the King set. 

Vader and Owen set before a Yoko set please.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Piper/Goldust and Hart/Piper are both amazing. I'm positive I've seen the Goldust tag but don't remember it. I remember the Funk tag being fun. Never seen Hennig/Bossman but it could be awesome.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

King Kenny said:


> Just reading a little bit here and there, some matches I haven't seen (and most likely the events from it too)
> 
> Marc Mero and Sable vs The Artist Formerly Known as Goldust and Luna
> Cactus Jack & Chainsaw Charlie vs. The New Age Outlaws (c) – Dumpster Match for the Tag Team Championship
> ...


The bolded is more than worth your time. :usangle approves


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Something from the SD spoilers:



Spoiler: sd



After the match, Michael Cole interviewed the winners, who argued, with Ambrose storming off after calling Bryan a turd. Ziggler also called Bryan a turd and left him alone in the ring. Bryan asks the crowd if he's a turd and they chanted "No!" He thanked the fans and that was the end of the show.



I think we just got another "JBL is poopy" moment...


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Piper/Hart is one of those matches, atleast for me, where you go a long time totally forgetting it exists, then you watch it again and say "Geeze this is fucking incredible why doesn't it get pimped more?" That match is such a treat to watch, nice and short with tons of emotion and excellent character work from Piper especially, and Bret brings out the best in Hot Rod. That's second only to the Valentine Dog Collar match as Pipers best outing of his career, from what I've seen, which granted isn't a lot because I haven't seen anything from Portland or LA or any of those territories.

Piper/Goldust is also spectacular. You want to see some gruesome, meaty punches you pop that match in and turn the volume up. You can actually hear Piper breaking his hand on Goldust's forehead while attempting to hard way him. Dustin gets knocked out cold. They really go all out, it's a blast to watch but it'll make you cringe too.


----------



## BrockandBryanMARK (Mar 9, 2015)

Goldust/Piper is definitely wayyyy underrated.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

My Destruction Of The Shield Blu Ray arrived just as i was leaving the house. :mark:

Nice to have certainly the FCW stuff officially TBH. At least i can put my PS4's blu-ray player to use lol.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Day 3 of the Jerry Lawler DVD content reveals:

— The Great Debate: Jerry Lawler vs. Paul E. Dangerously
RAW • March 10, 1997

— Jerry Lawer & Rob Van Dam vs. The Headbangers
Shotgun Saturday Night • June 14, 1997

— Jerry Lawler vs. Tommy Dreamer
ECW Hardcore Heaven • August 17, 1997

link - http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/jerry-lawler-week-3-dvd-match-reveals/83525/


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't understand, do they genuinely not want anyone to buy the DVD?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

VINTAGE WWE - RUINING SOMETHING WITH POTENTIAL YET AGAIN ZOMNJUAGBGHWTF


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Was that Piper/Bret match the first one to have that sleeper hold counter?

That's the first time I'd ever seen that, now everyone does that move. 


C2D, I will watch that Orton/Edge match soon, thanks!


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Personal issues taking preference to a good production and profit? In WWE? No way!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

x26evkg

Upped Piper/Bret a while ago for anyone who hasn't seen it. 

---------------------------

Another match revealed for the Lawler DVD:

*— Casket Match*
Jerry Lawler vs. The Undertaker
WWE @ White Plains, NY • September 28, 1994


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Casket match was revealed 2 days ago, keep up . And while it has already been released before (on one of those old Undertaker videos which was then re-released on DVD I does believe), it is somewhat interesting due to the story before the match. Undertaker and Paul Bearer had a rare day off, but Lawler wanted them to work a match in Memphis that day. They said no, and Lawler got PISSED and said they would never be invited to work in Memphis again. This annoyed Undertaker, who ended up, at the end of the match, grinding his forearm into Lawler's face and begging him to let them come to Memphis . Lawler kept refusing, so Undertaker kept grinding the forearm, and told Lawler he wouldn't end the match until he let them come to Memphis :lmao.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Well Excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me.  

Highly unlikely we will get a Savage match on that Lawler set then, or something from his feuds in USWA.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Did they announce a Lawler/Hart would be on the set yet? Be shocked if it isn't. There is seriously going to be less than one disc of pre-90s stuff on it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not yet, but I too would be shocked if they didn't stick one on there.

Wonder what other shite they'll unearth for the set though, since they seem to be going with the theme of "let's fuck it up as much as possible".

Watched the highspots Harley Race documentary earlier today, was ok. For a doc that was nearly 2 hours... they didn't really cover that much. Barely talked about any matches or feuds he had. I did learn though that he used to drive around the world's fattest man who was also a wrestler, and part of the job also included bathing the guy... which involved a hose pipe and a mop :lmao.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

— Jerry Lawler vs. Andy Kaufman
Memphis Wrestling • April 5, 1982

— Wrestler vs. Boxer & Manager Match
Jerry Lawler vs. Andy Kaufman & Jimmy Hart
Memphis Wrestling • November 21, 1983

Did they really need to have TWO Kaufman matches on the set?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

How is it possible to fuck up a JERRY LAWLER set?


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Just watched the Triumph & Tragedy of WCCW doc on the Network. Good lord, I'm depressed as fuck now.:frown2:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I wanted to see that WCCW quite a few times now, shame I can't spend NAYNE NAYNEE NAYNE :jbl here in Portugal, guess I gotta have to be... illegal 8*D

Speaking of 'triumph and tragedy', would love to spark some discussion here: worst match ever wrestled between two guys you consider amazing at what they do? Taker/Austin @ Backlash rings my bell.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Listening to the Cheap Heat podcast with Chris Hero, and Hero just dropped an Atom Bomb. Apparently, there is an NXT dark match that pits the Kings of Wrestling, Hero and Cesaro, against Seth Rollins and CM Punk. They went about 15-20 minutes. Holy shit. Zep, can you're new goal in life be to find a full length video of this? I mean, I know there is a less than 1% chance that footage exists somewhere, but you can make it your own personal Holy Grail or something.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Listening to the Cheap Heat podcast with Chris Hero, and Hero just dropped an Atom Bomb. Apparently, there is an NXT dark match that pits the Kings of Wrestling, Hero and Cesaro, against Seth Rollins and CM Punk. They went about 15-20 minutes. Holy shit. Zep, can you're new goal in life be to find a full length video of this? I mean, I know there is a less than 1% chance that footage exists somewhere, but you can make it your own personal Holy Grail or something.




I honestly wish more people taped live events. There's no reason why someone reading that card wouldn't record it. I'm sure it's sitting on someone's cellphone, never to see the light of day. It pisses me off almost as much as guys who tape some great matches only to then upload the match in clips. WHY? Balor/Cesaro goes 14 minutes and you give me 3???


EDIT: see what I mean, someone was there, and taped it, but uploaded it in parts. Cunt.












ATF said:


> Speaking of 'triumph and tragedy', would love to spark some discussion here: worst match ever wrestled between two guys you consider amazing at what they do? Taker/Austin @ Backlash rings my bell.


I'd give this thought, but for now I'm going with something that was an easy winner for that "award" for 2014.


*Blue Panther, La Máscara, Solar I vs Gran Guerrero, ***** Navarro, Shocker (01/07/2014 CMLL)*

Mascara/Gran/Shocker ain't shit but Solar/Navarro/Panther are all-time greats and they sucked ass here. The Navarro/Panther exchange was so disappointing. WWE wise, definitely Cesaro's stuff with Sheamus and Ambrose. Of course the matches weren't bad (well, I bet HayleySabin thinks that Cesaro/Ambrose Trick or Street Fight is trash), but they under-delivered in a big way.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cole vs Lawler making a DVD set is just :lmao.

I'm convinced that if they miraculously made a Chris Benoit set, they would include a bunch of forgettable 3 minute TV matches (like the Cena match in 2007!) and the bigger matches would include such classics like Armageddon 2000 against Billy Gunn.

Last Smackdown left before SummerSlam 2000. I was legit in tears watching this segment where APA take Kai-En-Tai to a bar. What is it about two Japanese cruiserweights acting like retards who can't speak English that I find so funny? :lol Drunk Funaki spitting in Bradshaw's face... I lost it right there. :lmao


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

ATF said:


> worst match ever wrestled between two guys you consider amazing at what they do? Taker/Austin @ Backlash rings my bell.


Kawada/Fujiwara 3/21/01 is soul-crushing. Fujiwara spends the 90s making young guys and no names looks amazing only to make All Japan's top post-NOAH guy look like a scrub.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I've always hated Benoit/Bret Mayhem 99'. But that's not quite worst match ever territory or anything. So lemme think....

Oh, got it.

Eddie vs Angle Summerslam 2004. That's one of the biggest steaming piles of shit I've ever seen. It's the worst Eddie match I've ever seen. Might even be the worst Angle match too. I know not everyone is on Team Angle in this thread but I think it's hard to say objectively that Angle wasn't an amazing wrestler. He didn't always have the best mind when it came to the ring but at his best he was most definitely amazing.

Plus, Eddie/Angle SS 04' is far worse than Taker/Austin Backlash. Far, far, worse. I have no qualms at all with awarding it a DUD rating, even factoring in my Eddie bias I can't give it even a 1/4*.

Edit: also, Eddie/Rey WM 21 is pretty damn bad. But that wasn't their fault Rey's mask was fucked so there wasn't a whole lot they could do. Still, it's not worse than that Angle/Eddie SS 04' match. Even Rey wrestling totally blind is better than Angle in full retard mode.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

ATF said:


> I wanted to see that WCCW quite a few times now, shame I can't spend NAYNE NAYNEE NAYNE :jbl here in Portugal, guess I gotta have to be... illegal 8*D
> 
> Speaking of 'triumph and tragedy', would love to spark some discussion here: worst match ever wrestled between two guys you consider amazing at what they do? Taker/Austin @ Backlash rings my bell.


 When you posed the question, I thought Taker/Dudley's (not always amazing certainly, but when they are on whew) crypt match at GAB, however I read you said between two people.Still easy answer for me. Ric Flair vs Mick Foley Last Man Standing in Tna in 2010. The epitome of the drizzling shits. One of the hokiest finishes of all time, watching both these two still go at it at this point was sad. Desperate, fired up batshit crazy Flair that worked so well in entertainment and drawing sympathy in 06 didn't have the same fire in TNA in 2010 and was pathetic at that point. Extremely cheesy selling by Flair especially when a segment of a barbed wire Table gets thrown at Flair and he gives the ass backwards Nicholas Cage "not the bees" sell. Whole match was extremely forced, the blade jobs and the weapons were not story enhancers but rather a pathetic attempt at smoke and mirrors. One of Mick Foley/Cactus Jack's greatest assets in his remorseless/sick expressions looked cartoonish here since it wasn't believable. When Foley fell off the platform the announcer table was on and went through the table I just shook my head. A truly pathetic match. Flair squandered his money and the economy fucked Foley and they both needed the money.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

So much :angle hate 

Didn't :y2j and :hbk2 have a really bad match together?


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> So much :angle hate
> 
> Didn't :y2j and :hbk2 have a really bad match together?


Not if you ask Jericho. If you ask Jericho, they had perfect five star matches and THE best angle in company history. In fact, Jericho has never swung and missed minus the HHH feud capping off his definitive GOAT career with his last run having an absolutely unpredictable finish vs Orton at their last ppv match and at Summerslam Jericho and Wyatt stole the show despite Brock Lesnar having a highly entertaining quash historically dismantling the franchise boy in Cena. In fact, Jericho's first match back vs the Miz, the two had a MOTY candidate. By the way even though I write this in a joking fashion, other than the definitive goat thing I threw in, I'm not making any of this up and Jericho has said all this either in his last two books or on his podcast. 

In all seriousness, I always liked Jericho and HBK's chemistry (I think the ladder is a little overrated but opinions...). Don't recall a really bad match between the two. HBK and Kane on the other hand had brutal chemistry. Can't recall a single good match that pair had together. There are some periods in Kane's career where it has been/was a real challenge to get a stellar match out of Kane. In terms of a getting a stellar match out of Kane, the only two who consistently did it were Benoit and Shane Mcmahon and on a lower scale surprisingly Albert was able to get a good string out of Kane. You would think that Taker and Kane would've had it down to a science, but other than that great storteller/power vs slugger match at 14, oftentimes those two over the years have crapped the bed. Daniel Bryan faced the guy seemingly every week for what seemed to be 6 months and only managed from memory one decent match and one really fun match (EC) out of the guy. 

I've never understood how a guy who is an astute enough analyzer to be invited to speak at Ron Paul rallies, a guy who in his prime was really athletic, really damn strong, a guy many champions in the business like Austin and Jericho respect and cite as a joy to work with and a guy who by now might smoke everybody in most matches at least on raw and yet what I say above largely reigns true. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Kane hater (though yeah as a fan and viewer I wish he'd hang it up or they'd book him ina different role) and I think Kane is a highly underrated character player.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Jericho has an ego the size of Jupiter. I really wish he'd just never speak ever again, in between his inflated sense of self worth, and his constant shilling for WWE. Don't get me wrong, the guy is an all time great, but he acts like he could take a shit in the ring and it would be rated ****1/4.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Jericho as of lately does kinda have his head up his ass, but tbh most of his career is pretty damn legendary after all so I think that for the better part of it, he's more or less entitled to his universal ego. And as far as I'm concerned, no, I don't recall Jericho and Shawn having a truly bad match w/each other. Yeah, the Ladder match is certainly far from great, but it fulfilled its purpose and it does the Ladder match tropes better than most Ladder matches. Plus, I can't really absolutely hate their chemistry based on the classic they had at WM 19 anyway. HHH is a far worse example of egomania tbf.

And Eddie/Angle SS '04 is a DUD of DUD's to me, but I didn't mention it because I don't really consider Angle amazing. At his very best, hell yes. Overall... not really. At all. Taker/Austin is pretty much two of the greatest professional wrestlers that have ever lived crushing my soul w/boring and shitty brawling and wrasslin'. Not quite DUD of DUD's, but ultra-underwhelming and terrible in its own right.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i'm after a weird request here

for people who don't know i'm suffering with some intense pain atm and having trouble sleeping. i want to put something on the network to watch, but not something i've already watched or will enjoy. i really need some sleep, i thought maybe there's something i can watch (any PPV from any promotion) on the network that can drift me off ? doesnt have to be obvious boring but yeah, hope that made sense


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

:y2j setting up that one final heel run nicely.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WrestlingOracle said:


> When you posed the question, I thought Taker/Dudley's (not always amazing certainly, but when they are on whew) crypt match at GAB, however I read you said between two people.Still easy answer for me. Ric Flair vs Mick Foley Last Man Standing in Tna in 2010. The epitome of the drizzling shits. One of the hokiest finishes of all time, watching both these two still go at it at this point was sad. Desperate, fired up batshit crazy Flair that worked so well in entertainment and drawing sympathy in 06 didn't have the same fire in TNA in 2010 and was pathetic at that point. Extremely cheesy selling by Flair especially when a segment of a barbed wire Table gets thrown at Flair and he gives the ass backwards Nicholas Cage "not the bees" sell. Whole match was extremely forced, the blade jobs and the weapons were not story enhancers but rather a pathetic attempt at smoke and mirrors. One of Mick Foley/Cactus Jack's greatest assets in his remorseless/sick expressions looked cartoonish here since it wasn't believable. When Foley fell off the platform the announcer table was on and went through the table I just shook my head. A truly pathetic match. Flair squandered his money and the economy fucked Foley and they both needed the money.



I'm going to pretend I DIDN'T read this. Foley/Flair LMS is fucking awesome dude. Those two guys brought the intensity that night, they absolutely killed it. I'm not saying it's an all time classic or one of either guys best matches, but for a guy near 60 and another guy with the body of an 80 year old, they tore it up. I liked it a lot. Not as good as their I Quit match but still pretty damn good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Finish is retarded, but the rest of the match is awesome. Super fun and violent LMS match between two guys who the fans knew had legitimate heat at one point. I Quit is certainly better, but for a TNA match it was still pretty good 8*D.

Speaking of retarded... I keep seeing Undertaker Vs Austin from Backlash 2002 mentioned. STOP IT.

Rey/Eddie from WM 21 is one of my least favourite matches ever, especially considering who was involved and how many awesome matches they've had before and after that one. The mask stuff was just part of the problem too. Neither man looked like they gave a shit that night, Eddie especially... though given what we know now, it could have been one of those nights where he simply COULDN'T perform at the level he wanted to .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If only Eddie thought about his own well-being for just once instead of trying to be the man like he always would, and went to a doctor to see what was wrong w/him, maybe, just maybe, we would've still had Eddie w/us. Probably retired by now, but he would still be here. And maybe Benoit too, since Eddie's death was only part of the kick that lead to his tragic downfall. Sad to see what kind of damage the best have to put themselves through to make us all remember wrestling as THE #1 form of entertainment in the world 

Still, at least we got the Eddie/Rey stuff we deserved after the WM 21 dissapointment. JD 2005 and the near 5-star classic on Smackdown were golden.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Day 5 of content reveal for the Jerry Lawler DVD:

— King’s Court with Giant Gonzales
Wrestling Challenge • May 23, 1993

— King’s Court with Jerry Lawler interviewing himself
Wrestling Challenge • June 27, 1993

— King’s Court with “Rowdy” Roddy Piper
RAW • June 6, 1994

— King’s Court with William Shatner
RAW • January 9, 1995

— Jerry Lawler vs. Al Jackson
Superstars • March 23, 1996

— Jerry Lawler’s Hall of Fame Induction
Hall of Fame • March 31, 2007

link - http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/jerry-lawler-week-5-dvd-match-reveals/83671/


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> And maybe Benoit too, since Eddie's death was only part of the kick that lead to his tragic downfall. Sad to see what kind of damage the best have to put themselves through to make us all remember wrestling as THE #1 form of entertainment in the world


I think Benoit would have definitely lived longer and at worst, died a "normal" death had Eddie been around. He did say that Eddie always talked him out of anything bad he was thinking about. I think Eddie dying really set him off. I watched the Finlay match on SD before Survivor Series 2006 and noticed that he was looking chubbier than he normally did which is pretty much true about him from 2006 until the end. That event mentally destroyed him but if he had lived longer, probably physically too.

Speaking of Finlay, I also watched the Undertaker match before WM23 right after and it was excellent like the first time. Did Taker and Finlay have any other singles matches? I looked at cagematch.com and only discovered house show ones and anything else was tag team/multi-men stuff.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I think Benoit would have definitely lived longer and at worst, died a "normal" death had Eddie been around. He did say that Eddie always talked him out of anything bad he was thinking about. I think Eddie dying really set him off. I watched the Finlay match on SD before Survivor Series 2006 and noticed that he was looking chubbier than he normally did which is pretty much true about him from 2006 until the end. That event mentally destroyed him but if he had lived longer, probably physically too.
> 
> Speaking of Finlay, I also watched the Undertaker match before WM23 right after and it was excellent like the first time. Did Taker and Finlay have any other singles matches? I looked at cagematch.com and only discovered house show ones and anything else was tag team/multi-men stuff.



Two reactions I haven't forgotten from Eddie Guerrero's tribute show are a man the mass size of Big Show completely breaking down and I remember looking at Benoit and thinking that this is now a broken man. When I read Chris Jericho's second book and the chapter on Benoit, he states that he would hear wailing cries from Benoit and at one point Benoit in a panic went to Jericho and said "I can't take much more of this I can't keep losing my friends" (obviously coming up together in Canada and NJPW, Owen and Chris were close too and that is what we know). Chavo Guerrero gave a pretty emotional interview to Chris Jericho and Chavo noted how inconsistent in personality Benoit became where he would be absolutely stoic one day and have a pretty aggressive sense of humor/ribbing the next. 

A little interesting nugget, even though Bob Holly we know has a wierd view on some things, but he is a honest dude and he said on a JR podcast that he was supposed to go over to Chris Benoit's house very shortly if not the time that Benoit committed the act, but he didn't show and Benoit was apparently very pissed off about that Back on task: would Benoit be alive if Eddie was here? Well, Chris Nowitzki said that after they examined Benoit's brain, it was determined he would've died a year later regardless of the horrible actions of Benoit's final days. Guy had a brain of an 80 year old with alzheimers and WORSE than the NFL player brains analyzed. I personally think that alot of that has to do with that damn flying headbutt that yes Harley Race used too, but Benoit took it to another level from way way more extreme distances and sometimes heights. I've never really watched to tell if Benoit is a hands-up guy or not on chair shots, but it seemed that Benoit always took some pretty violent headshots too. MVP (a guy Benoit mentored and took under his wing oddly enough since MVP is a galaxy from Benoit) said that Chris Benoit was a pretty hard partier who did various pills. That can't help Benoit's long term case even crossing out the act.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Fucking hell have they fucked up BIG TIME that Lawler set.

The words half arsed spring to mind. Jeez.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Half arsed would imply they put SOME effort into it. Clearly this is not the case.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It was a shocking revelation about Benoit partying but I think he stopped doing that after he came to WWE and Daniel was born combined with him getting married to Nancy. I think Perry Saturn stated in an interview that one night they wanted to go out partying and Chris didn't want to come because he wanted to be faithful. Obviously, the history didn't help his longterm health but one of the biggest factors brought up after Eddie's death is how he started drinking alcohol which he didn't do prior to that. Head injuries/brain damage, depression, drugs and probably marital problems were all factors that led to his demise. It's hard to trust Kurt Angle but he says in one of his last few conversations with Benoit in the locker-room, he told him that he was close to snapping. The theory that he would've died by 2008 if the tragedy hadn't occurred doesn't help matters any.

I blame the head injuries mainly on diving headbutts. While he took his fair amount of chair shots, most other wrestlers in the Attitude Era took as many, if not more, shots to the head. So while that didn't help (certainly not the back of the head shots from Triple H in 2004), the main factor is the diving headbutt where his head came in full contact with the opponent's shoulder/chest and to think he did that move non-stop for 20 years, from TV shows to weekly house shows. There's only so much one can take.

edit: Thought for a second CAL double posted. :lol


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Lawler's set looks like complete dogshit. Almost NOTHING from that listing so far would make me wanna spend money on it. I love how Giant Gonzalez & someone named Al Jackson have made the set. Great touches. I bet that OVW tag is awful too. 

On a random note, the guy who reviewed Jericho's newest set on WrestlingDVDNews gave his match with Orton at NOC last year **** 1/4. Has to be the highest rating I've ever seen for it. What the hell even happened in that match?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> On a random note, the guy who reviewed Jericho's newest set on WrestlingDVDNews gave his match with Orton at NOC last year **** 1/4. Has to be the highest rating I've ever seen for it. What the hell even happened in that match?


I'd give it ★★★¾. Simply enjoyed it because I feel it accomplished what it was set out to do. There was no story to it so they had to work with all they had to make it interesting and I think they did that. Good back and forth action, some nice counters and nearfalls. Just what I wanted to see and they gave it to me. Their best match up to that point had been the Raw IC title match from 2004 which I think is enjoyable but a little run off the mill all the same. NOC finally produced a memorable match between these two. It was even better when I rewatched it compared to live.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I may have to watch it again sometime then because I just remember it being... there.  Think I gave it like ** 3/4 and thought Sheamus/Cesaro, Usos/Dust Bros, and Brock/Cena were all better.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> On a random note, the guy who reviewed Jericho's newest set on WrestlingDVDNews gave his match with Orton at NOC last year **** 1/4. Has to be the highest rating I've ever seen for it. What the hell even happened in that match?


I like that site for, ya know, the DVD news, but I wouldn't take anything any of their "reviewers" say too seriously .


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Orton/Jericho I remember being pretty dull and you can see the finish from a mile away. Although, Jericho insists he and Orton "stole the show" that night. Yes, the same night a Cena/Lesnar match took place. 

And I can't believe WWE managed to fuck up a Jerry Lawler set. This has to be some rib. Did Lawler even have a say in it? Who the fuck is Al Jackson anyway?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Googled the Al Jackson match to see why it's on the set. Since it's part of the "on the mic" portion of the DVD, it makes sense. He does his own commentary for the match while having the match 




EDIT: Huh, when did the forum auto-embed youtube videos from just the URL?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just watched the Hansen/Andre match from AJPW 1981 and holy shit that match is GOD status. Seriously if anyone ever had any doubts or questions about whether Andre in his prime could work, go and watch this. It's like watching a Godzilla movie where all the sudden a much bigger Godzilla appears and the two Titan sized Lizards go to war and decimate and entire city. At least that's the vibe I got from it. Plus, it's the only match ice seen Hansen work as the nominal baby face. He has real fire in his work if he wasn't such a gigantic salty bastard I'd have loved to see a real baby face run from him. It's downright shocking to see how much Andre dwarfs Hansen. Hansen always looks like an absolute monster at 6'4 300lbs facing off against Backlund, Kobashi, Misawa, etc. Seeing him next to Andre he looks like Rey Mysterio. 

This is easily a ****1/2 match, possibly higher. It's just about as good as it gets. If anyone needs a link you can just google "Hansen vs Andre" and click on the match from 1981. Or PM me for a link it's easy to find though.

Edit: anyone else think my new sig gif is pretty much the greatest thing ever?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Chris you should Andre/Killer Khan as well. Date is....uhhhhhhh..........1982. April, I think.





Smith_Jensen said:


> Day 5 of content reveal for the Jerry Lawler DVD:
> 
> — King’s Court with Giant Gonzales
> Wrestling Challenge • May 23, 1993
> ...


MORE USELESS SHIT!!!!!! :mark: :mark:

"It’s Good To Be The King: The Jerry Lawler Story." Get fucked. Why not just call it "He May Have Wrestled Once or Twice: The Jerry Lawler Story"


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Edit: anyone else think my new sig gif is pretty much the greatest thing ever?


It's ok i guess. :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Meh, I still prefer MY sig to everyone else's. I MAY be biased though. Possibly. Just a little.

Huh, look at me, I'm actually working on some new VIDEO content for my site. Planning on doing another WM week... though at the moment I only have enough ideas/content for a WM week...end .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'll get on watching that now. I really liked the aftermath for Hansen/Andre. They had all those young boys and other ring workers for AJPW trying to separate those two pissed off monsters and they just kept tossing them around like giant sacks of shit so they could continue clobbering each other. Andre at one had about 7 guys trying to hold him back and he swept them away like he would a mosquito. I've read Andre was so strong that he could flip cars over by himself and lift 250lb men off the ground only gripping the top of their heads. Yet I've also never read a story of Andre genuinely injuring someone in the ring, he must have been really damn good to not kill anyone with that kind of power.


----------



## TheChoppingMachine (Mar 25, 2014)

I agree with Andre vs Hansen and vs Khan being fucking awesome. :mark: Ok, now I want to rewatch them. 



sharkboy22 said:


> Orton/Jericho I remember being pretty dull and you can see the finish from a mile away. Although, Jericho insists he and Orton "stole the show" that night. Yes, the same night a Cena/Lesnar match took place.


But it has an RKO outta nowhere!!!


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Just watched Ziggler/Byran from Bragging Rights 2010 for the first time, and it was great. 

Can't remember if this was on 'skin's list of recommended Ziggler matches or not, but if it was, I don't know why I overlooked it.

Someone in another thread mentioned that that's an example of how much the WWE limits Ziggler's style and moveset nowadays, and they're absolutely right. Great pure wrestling match, and I love that Ziggler got to show off his amateur skills.

Everything made sense as far as placement, and that fireman's carry from Ziggler was the sickest I've ever seen it. I've never seen it used as a move out of nowhere, so quickly delivered like that.

Also, the kicks from both Bryan and Ziggler seemed really vicious.

Great, great, match, that made both men look great. They used their time very wisely and well. 

In in a really pro-Ziggler mood after watching vs. Morison at SvS '11, and vs. Mysterio at Summerslam '11. Very fun matches, and what I've noticed is that all three matches had really great timing in them. Just super smooth.


ETA: C2D, did you see the interview/promo package they did on Smackdown with Orton about the Rollins rivalry? I thought it was well-done, as far as building up the feud.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i'm about to watch beach blast 1992 for the first time

edit - scratch that i just want to watch a few series

sting/vader
sting/cactus jack

I haven't watched the NWA days before WCW (well maybe 1 match or 2), and haven't watched a great deal of WCW 1991-1995 even though I've really wanted to.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lets just say WCW circa 1995 - while having some stuff I do quite enjoy - isn't the same as WCW circa 1992 - 1994. :evil

But watch Beach Blast '92 (Y) (to reiterate x2)


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I'll get on watching that now. I really liked the aftermath for Hansen/Andre. They had all those young boys and other ring workers for AJPW trying to separate those two pissed off monsters and they just kept tossing them around like giant sacks of shit so they could continue clobbering each other. Andre at one had about 7 guys trying to hold him back and he swept them away like he would a mosquito. I've read Andre was so strong that he could flip cars over by himself and lift 250lb men off the ground only gripping the top of their heads. Yet I've also never read a story of Andre genuinely injuring someone in the ring, he must have been really damn good to not kill anyone with that kind of power.


That was a huge match for Hansen - for Andre to resort to the elbow pad/ref lariat put Hansen over big at the time. Match is glorious as all hell - the pop for the restart is pure elation from the crowd. There's a lot of little things in the match - bumps and sells that you won't see much of today. It's dirty and teetering on chaotic. ***** for me. 

Andre, in the 70's-early 80's is phenomenal. Best 6'8"+ guy to ever (have someone else) lace 'em up (for him). He's a menace - and the old-school style of actually _working_ a hold fits him well. If Andre locks your arm or back, that's it - it's his now. His image and spectacle was just beyond wrestling at the time - a cultural personality.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Lets just say WCW circa 1995 - while having some stuff I do quite enjoy - isn't the same as WCW circa 1992 - 1994. :evil
> 
> But watch Beach Blast '92 (Y) (to reiterate x2)


This. The first day I got the network, the absolute first ppV I watched in full was Beach Blast 1992. Everyone knows that Steamboat/Rude is among the best matches ever, and Jack/Sting is positively extroidinary. But do NOT skip or short change Flamingo/Pillman, Valentine/Bagwell, the big 6 man tag, or MVC/Steiners. All are top notch. The whole event is picture perfect from a wrestling standpoint. Second only to Spring Stampede 1994 as the best event WCW ever put on.



JustJoel said:


> That was a huge match for Hansen - for Andre to resort to the elbow pad/ref lariat put Hansen over big at the time. Match is glorious as all hell - the pop for the restart is pure elation from the crowd. There's a lot of little things in the match - bumps and sells that you won't see much of today. It's dirty and teetering on chaotic. ***** for me.
> 
> Andre, in the 70's-early 80's is phenomenal. Best 6'8"+ guy to ever (have someone else) lace 'em up (for him). He's a menace - and the old-school style of actually _working_ a hold fits him well. If Andre locks your arm or back, that's it - it's his now. His image and spectacle was just beyond wrestling at the time - a cultural personality.



Man I absolutely loved that. Andre's holds are truly picture perfect. He looks like he is straight up crippling guys and dislocating joints when he gets one on you. Everything he does is so snug, you can't see any holes in his work which means he must be a master, as any small slip up could result in serious injury to his opponent.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Was in the mood for something lively & that I haven't seen much; so I settled on Elimination Chamber 2011. Forgot I owned this, actually. Only seen it once. I knew I should have skipped the opener, this trash is embarrassing. Then again, that's just the average Kofi Kingston match. Dear christ this guy :lmao

Still super pumped to relive the Smackdown Chamber & Miz vs King, seeing as I really, really liked both on the last watch.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Didn't feel the same regarding the EC 2011 opener. Thought it was very fun and better than your average Kofi match (cause Del Rio obv.). Del Rio owning Kofi's ass w/gutbusters has some kind of huge appeal to me for whatever reason :side: That whole show is awesome as far as I'm concerned, both the SD and Raw Chambers rule and Miz/Lawler is great too. Easily, EASILY, the best show out the EC PPV legacy.

ANDRE LOVE IN THIS PLACE :mark: Guy in his prime was every bit as good as the Vaders and Takers of the world. There, I fucking said it. Andre/Khan is one of my favorite big man matches of all time. Absolutely godly stuff that is. I remember also loving Andre/Inoki from '78 when I watched it. Andre & JYD/Funks tag is also quite fun (ANDRE/TERRY INTERACTIONZ~).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Del Rio/Kofi sucks. Miz/Lawler sucks. Tag title match sucks. Raw chamber wasn't that good. SD chamber was fun, but don't think it was great.

Bryan Vs DiBiase was the fucking dark match from the show. Was probably better than the actual show.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Del Rio does nothing but rest holds the majority of the match. Unsure how that is beating a useless guy up. Del Rio looked crummy in it too. Terrible match & format to try and build him up for a threat heading into WM. Kofi matches w/o relying on the ropes for 99% = (apparently) move at a pace slower than a blown up Konnan.

SD chamber was monumentally mediocre. Drew's 2 minutes of killing people is still good. Rest; forgettable. Match is way, way, way too even steven for anyone to care. Barrett is nothing but a crash dummy. Show was a kayfabe replacement, but gets jipped in doing nothing like he was for the majority of 2011, KANE was Kane but it wasn't true KANE in his good killing mode, & Edge/Rey did stuff for ten minutes but previous plans for WM show it is all fleeting. Not like it was anything special, either. If I want Edge vs Mysterio drama from a Chamber, I'll just go back to 2009. Elimination Chamber matches got so old, so damn quick. There's like four that I care to watch.

Tag Titles was....yeah. Koslov did a late sell on a kick to the head b/c you could clearly tell he wasn't hurt, but knew he had to sell for the kid anyways. What a Russian. Another crummy match tho.

I stopped there b/c I honestly don't see much of the point anymore. Another bad WWE PPV. Shocker.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, to each his own. I remember Del Rio/Kofi as a fun match w/the fulfilled purpose of ADR being further built to WM, and I certainly remember the Smackdown EC as WAAYYY better than mediocre, but different opinions are different. I personally enjoy the shit out that show. Certainly more than I'll enjoy the shitfest that'll be WM 31 this year. Not sure why you didn't continue for Miz/Lawler tho.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

starcade 88
beach blast 1992
chi town rumble
great american bash 89
SuperBrawl III
Spring Stampede '94 and Slamboree '94

on my list to watch (i havent watched any)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well stop posting about em and fucking WATCH them ya lazy twat!!!


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

dont know what to start with


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just do em in chronological order then .


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

cheers. i'm off to watch starrcade 88 now, looking forward to it :mark: windham/bigelow, rick steiner/mike rotunda, flair/luger


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

#ROOT said:


> EDIT: Huh, when did the forum auto-embed youtube videos from just the URL?


They still haven't fixed this? It's not as if they aren't aware, as I messaged them about a month ago.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Is it just me or should Savage/Hogan @ Mania 5 be talked about much more? Cause it kinda owns. Yes, the ending is absolute dogshit, but it doesn't completely ruin a match marked by lots of physicality, lots of emotion and a totally awesome dickhead performance by one of the greatest wrestlers I've ever seen. ***3/4-****, would've easily been ****+ if the ending hadn't been so fucking horrendous. 

If Taker or Shawn never existed, I'd fucking say Savage is Mr. WrestleMania. Hell, he more than likely is a top contender. Stuff w/Steamboat, Hogan, Warrior and Flair is of legends, and still has a few gems like the matches w/Hernandez, DiBiase and Valentine to boot.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rah said:


> They still haven't fixed this? It's not as if they aren't aware, as I messaged them about a month ago.


Fix it? Why would they fix it? Seems like a good idea to me lol, since I can never remember/be arsed to embed videos myself .



ATF said:


> Is it just me or should Savage/Hogan @ Mania 5 be talked about much more? Cause it kinda owns. Yes, the ending is absolute dogshit, but it doesn't completely ruin a match marked by lots of physicality, lots of emotion and a totally awesome dickhead performance by one of the greatest wrestlers I've ever seen. ***3/4-****, would've easily been ****+ if the ending hadn't been so fucking horrendous.
> 
> If Taker or Shawn never existed, I'd fucking say Savage is Mr. WrestleMania. Hell, he more than likely is a top contender. Stuff w/Steamboat, Hogan, Warrior and Flair is of legends, and still has a few gems like the matches w/Hernandez, DiBiase and Valentine to boot.


It's not talked about more because it isn't really THAT great. It's good, I have it at ***1/2... but both Hogan and Savage have both had better WM matches, and there are a ton of better WM matches in general than it .

And Savage imo only has 4 WM matches worth mentioning; Hogan, Warrior, Steamboat, Flair. Huh, actually that probably does put him near the top as far as WM matches go :lmao. Taker and HBK pretty much dominate the majority of top WM matches for me, with guys like Bret, Austin, HHH and a couple of other guys all having 3 high end matches.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

No shit that both men have better WM matches (and matches in general), it's quite obvious they do  - but just because of that, I feel like it shouldn't be underappreciated. People referred to Piper/Bret a few days back and that's how I feel about Savage/Hogan. Piper/Bret isn't even close to Bret's best outings at Mania (matches w/Austin and Owen are perfect and much superior), but it's still deserving of the credit for excellence it gets. Savage/Hogan to me was the culmination of a year's worth of build-up in terrific fashion, w/the little things mostly from Savage making it every bit the more intriguing. Ending was shit, but that aside, great stuff for me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Piper/Hart gets pretty darn overrated around here. Same for Savage/Flair too from the same show . But both are better than Savage/Hogan, and with all the other awesome WM matches, Savage/Hogan just gets forgotten about in the grand scheme of things lol.

Plus the build was all wrong. HOGAN WAS THE FUCKING HEEL. But they kept him as the babyface instead. Because you know, HOGAN. Kinda like what happens with Cena these days. Book him to be like a dick, but keep him babyface. Only chance of a Cena heel turn is for him to leave WWE. Vince ain't got the GRAPEFRUITS to turn him heel.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm not sure why I feel the need to post this, but I'm going to anyway. They had an 8-man tag on Smackdown this week. Cesaro, Kidd, & Los Matadores vs. Usos & New Day. What was the finish you ask? The Matadores pulled the "twin" switch and the one who entered the ring yanked Kofi by his hair, hit a backstabber, and pulled the tights for the win. HEEL STATUS. These are the exact things Cesaro & Kidd should be doing and the fucking Matadores pulled it off. I loved it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well tbf I don't think Cesaro and Kidd could pull off a "twin" switch 8*D.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

#ROOT said:


> Well tbf I don't think Cesaro and Kidd could pull off a "twin" switch 8*D.


THIS GUY

You know what I meant. :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

— NWA World Heavyweight Championship Match
Ric Flair vs. Jerry Lawler
Memphis Wrestling • August 4, 1982

— Legends Match
Jerry Lawler vs. Ric Flair
RAW • November 29, 2004

Well at least they have SOMETHING good on the set now lol.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Jesus H. Christ, can they not put ANYTHING vs Savage on the Lawler set??


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Pfft, who needs a Savage match on the set when we've got an OVW JOHN CENA TAG MATCH on there!!!


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> Piper/Hart gets pretty darn overrated around here.


What is overrated? The pre-match promo and subsequent match is excellent. Both guys are prickly and the arm wringer opening is great. The scene with Piper helping Bret back in the ring, only to follow it up with a sucker punch and bust the Hitman is excellent execution. Piper and Hart's offense looks great as usual - Supreme Piper knee lift in there. There's a few flaws in it - I would've liked more fight/leg kicking from Piper on the final pinfall, for instance - but how it culminates with Piper going for the bell, but not being able to bring himself to do it, is just wonderful storytelling. It comes full circle with the build: Piper in the segment talked about knowing Bret since he was "this" big (which apparently was when Bret was 6-8" tall, :lol) Heenan screaming on commentary for Piper to do it maxes out the tension. I have it @ ****1/2 or so. Not quite as good as Hart/Austin, but about on par w/Owen for me.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You guys, I think I MAY have a new MOTY in the form of Owens/Neville from NXT a few weeks ago. I've been doing catching up since I stopped watching the NXT shows for whatever fucking reason, and Owens/Neville the week after Rival kinda blew me away. Potential MOTY for me tbh.

Also, Sasha/Charlotte from last week was awesome; Bayley/Becky from two weeks ago was awesome; from this week I liked Lucha Dragons/Team SAWFT and Breeze/Itami (probably Itami's best singles match yet, or 2nd behind the Balor one). NXT RULES.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> cheers. i'm off to watch starrcade 88 now, looking forward to it :mark: windham/bigelow, rick steiner/mike rotunda, flair/luger


Windham vs Triple B is GREAT. :mark: _(as is Flair vs Luger, but lets put over the lesser known match, imo)_


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

How was Rockers vs. Twin Towers at Wrestlemania V?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fun but super duper short.


----------



## TheChoppingMachine (Mar 25, 2014)

Yeah it's good. If you've never seen it you absolutely should watch it. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's one of my personal favorite WM matches, tbhayley.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rockers Vs FoF at WM 7 is better .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I dig both. One has FATTIES, one has HAKU, and both have Rockers. I'm sold.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Undertaker/Jeff Hardy from RAW 2002 popped up as I was watching other videos. I've decided to watch it again, really enjoyed it back then.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Taker/Jeff Ladder can't be praised enough. TV MOTY for 2002 I believe (not sure what else would even come close... maybe Eddie/RVD Ladder, maybe TLC IV, maybe that Angle/Rey I saw a few days ago... but I don't think those really have THAT potential in them). Jeff's best singles match ever I presume, and mad props to Taker for going all out and making him look as best as he could. Match was also aided by some legendary calling by JR (proving that a good match needs its announcers every bit as much).

And I too think Rockers/FoF WM 7 > Rockers/TT WM 5. I'm a fan of both though. But I would say Harts/Nastys from WM 7 is superior to both, and Steiners/Headshrinkers superior to THAT.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's _*tied*_ as the best RAW match in history.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

For me it's probably top 3. Powertrip/Ben & Jerry wins it, followed by Cena/Punk 2013 and this. To complete the top 5, I would guess Cena/Michaels 2007 and Bret/123.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I want to say the best BookDust/Chrisesestian tag is better but (a) I haven't seen Taker/Hardy in like 8 years and (b) my recent confusion with the BookDust tags makes me unsure the best one was even on Raw.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Shockingly, I'm not very up to date in memory on some of the classic RAW tags. Latest ones I have are only from the past few years. Well, and TLC IV.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd have to watch every single Raw in order to say what the best Raw match is because I can't remember so much. Until then I'll just say the best Raw match is some random Undertaker match 8*D. I at least know the best SD match is an Undertaker match .

Oh and while I'm here, I needs your help please . Doing another WM Week on my BLOG~! (oh shit just remembered it's Sunday, I'd best get posting the next PPV ramble lol), but so far I only have enough ideas for... 3 days :lmao. 4 days of content left to fill. Either video or written. Did most of the ideas last year, so now the well is pretty dry :lmao.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Best SD (and WWE TV) match is Austin/Benoit so your logic is fucked too, Cal 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I do believe you are WRONG, sir. Utterly wrong.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Is the Superstar Billy Graham doc any good?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> I do believe you are WRONG, sir. Utterly wrong.


Go ahead and prove me so, good sir. Austin/Benoit > Taker/Angle and Eddie/Rey as far as I'm concerned. Not sure what else even comes close.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Taker Vs Angle 2003.

I do believe I have proven you wrong.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Read post above yours to see instructions on why you haven't. 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I posted before you made the edit, because I don't need to add shit to my posts to make myself look better 8*D.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well I made myself look better and I'm fucking proud of it, problem officer? :side: (I'm wondering if that makes me a sorta forum heel like dem Reigns troll marks :hmm)

... but to make YOU feel better Cal, I can Taker and Angle had the best match in No Way Out history 8*D


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

Best SD match? Edge & Chavo & Edgeheads Vs Shawn Michaels & Ric Flair - Steel Cage.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fighter Daron said:


> Best SD match? Edge & Chavo & Edgeheads Vs Shawn Michaels & Ric Flair - Steel Cage.


ATF, let's just agree to disagree and say this guy is right . Because it's such a super, mega FUN FUN FUN match :mark:.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I haven't seen it since it originally aired . Tbh I haven't seen any 2008 TV in years bar Taker/Kane, Taker/Jeff ER and Shawn/Jeff. Maybe that really is the best :side:.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Day 7 of content reveal of the Jerry Lawler DVD:

— Jerry Lawler interrupts Bret Hart’s coronation
King of the Ring • June 13, 1993

— Jerry Lawler vs. Owen Hart
Wrestling Challenge • July 25, 1993

— Bret Hart vs. Bam Bam Bigelow
RAW • July 26, 1993
(This is the match where Lawler is in the crowd berating Bret's parents throughout the match)

— “Kiss My Foot Match”
Jerry Lawler vs. Bret Hart
King of the Ring • June 25, 1995

link - http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/jerry-lawler-week-7-dvd-match-reveals/83803/


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The more announcements are made, the more Lawler's DVD is fucked tbf. At least that Lawler/Owen match is sweet.

Uhaa is officially w/the company it seems. I was very impressed w/his athletic capability when I first saw him. Haven't really seen a big match of his tho, any major recs?


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> The more announcements are made, the more Lawler's DVD is fucked tbf. At least that Lawler/Owen match is sweet.
> 
> Uhaa is officially w/the company it seems. I was very impressed w/his athletic capability when I first saw him. Haven't really seen a big match of his tho, any major recs?



His last Dragon Gate match. Personally my favorite match of his.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

ATF said:


> The more announcements are made, the more Lawler's DVD is fucked tbf. At least that Lawler/Owen match is sweet.
> 
> Uhaa is officially w/the company it seems. I was very impressed w/his athletic capability when I first saw him. Haven't really seen a big match of his tho, any major recs?


His match agains Ricochet from 2014 is pretty amazing: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2bdrge_ricochet-vs-uhaa-nation_sport


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Well fucking hell why did they wait until they had the Memphis footage to make a Lawler set in the first place? Could have just done their usual half-ass job back in 2011 and it would have come out the same. Unless by chance all of the WWF stuff will be on disc 3 and there are at least two full discs of Memphis that they're just taking time to 'remaster' or whatever.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Well that was embarrassing.

Starrcade 88 is one of the best Starrcades out there. Sting/Dusty vs. Road Warriors is probably the best I've seen the Road Warriors. Midnight Express vs. Midnight Express was equally swell. I don't think I've seen anything from Rick Steiner's singles career that was better than that Rotunda match. And Flair/Luger is Flair/Luger. I saw Windham and Bigelow before, but I don't recall a thing that happened. I guess it's worth watching, but both guys have a tendency to go through the motions and wrestle lackadaisically so I'm scared.

We are all in agreement that Lawler/Dundee II is the best match of Lawler's (and Dundee's) career right?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> The more announcements are made, the more Lawler's DVD is fucked tbf. At least that Lawler/Owen match is sweet.
> 
> Uhaa is officially w/the company it seems. I was very impressed w/his athletic capability when I first saw him. Haven't really seen a big match of his tho, any major recs?


Most of his "bigger" matches haven't been any good _(or he's been good in em, but opponents have not)_ b/c they're Dragon Gate so they work that style and it goes to shit instead of being better. When he's in lower card matches, that's when he and his opponents shine b/c there's a lesser intent & the open side to work out more elements is there. A complete blast he had, for example, was vs the young lion Kotoka from last year. Infinitely > the Open the Dream Gate Championship match vs Ricochet or vs YAMATO last year.

Happy he's apart of WWE. He feels more like a legit signing, rather than to feed this current side of NXT I'm wishing wasn't around.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

You're wishing Zayn, Steen, Neville, Balor, and Breeze weren't around in NXT? Huh, and here I was thinking it was pretty sweet those guys are getting to be a weekly TV show and work exciting matches.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Day 1 of content reveal for Daniel Bryan's DVD:

— American Dragon & Shooter Schultz vs. Brian Kendrik & Lance Cade
Austin, TX [SmackDown Taping] • February 8, 2000

— Daniel Bryan vs. Chris Jericho
NXT • February 23, 2010

— World Heavyweight Championship Match
The Big Show vs. Daniel Bryan
TLC • December 18, 2011

link - http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/match-reveals-1-wwe-daniel-bryan-dvd-blu-ray/83861/


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well... this outta be an interesting week. So far we have a tryout/jobber squad match, an overrated NXT contest that went like 5 minutes, and a match that really isn't even a match. (Y)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Is it a competition within WWE to see which set they could screw up more; Lawler or Bryan?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

So they are even trying to bury Bryan on disc as well as on their show then?

I am kinda surprised they included that SD match though tbh, not that I've seen it, I never even knew he had a try out match in 2000, ive only seen footage of him in TWA around that time.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That SD dark match looks more of a favour to HBK rather than a real tryout match or anything. The show was in Texas, and HBK was running his school at the time, so Shawn probably asked WWE if they could throw some work to his guys while they were there.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

A big man vs Bryan gimmick match in the last 30 days of 2011 and they don't go with Henry/Bryan? Okay?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Tbh I understand the inclusion of that stuff in the Bryan set. Sucks for the match quality, but eh. Getting the big moments out there isn't all that bad of a decision. Now if they don't fuck up the rest and include stuff like Bryan/Sheamus ER, Bryan/Ziggler BR, the Punk/Bryan series and a multitude of SHIELD, I'd be a happy camper already.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Why do I have a weird feeling that they will include the Bryan/Sheamus WM match?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The problem with including all the big moments is that _Daniel Bryan: The Superstar Collection_ already exists. What was on that? The same NXT match with Jericho, U.S. Title win against Miz, the MITB win in 2011, and a couple matches against Henry/Show. 

I'm not gonna be bothered about anything yet because it's just the first day, but I have very little faith that WWE will do this one right either. I expect repeats like always.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*SummerSlam 2000:*

Right to Censor vs Too Cool & Rikishi - ★★
X-Pac vs Road Dogg - ★
Chyna & Eddie Guerrero vs Val Venis & Trish Stratus - ★★½
Jerry Lawler vs Tazz - ★★¼
Steve Blackman vs Shane McMahon - ★★★¼
Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho - ★★★★
Edge & Christian vs Dudleyz vs Hardy Boyz - ★★★★½
Undertaker vs Kane - ★★¾
The Rock vs Triple H vs Kurt Angle - ★★¾

A solid event with a couple of great matches and some decent stuff here and there. Disappointed that the main event turned out the way it did because it was a glorified singles match with Angle showing up in the last few minutes. Sucks that the concussion happened pre-match because it completely changed the course of it and the results were underwhelming. I struggle to call it a real triple threat.

@[user]LilOlMe[/user]: I did watch the Orton interview from Smackdown, which marks the first piece of SD footage I've watched since the summer. Unless you count putting on Reigns vs Big Show after Royal Rumble in the background to hear the crowd reaction out of curiosity.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

You guys are sick, WWE tries to bury DB making a DVD out of his main moments? Blah.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> *SummerSlam 2000:*
> 
> Right to Censor vs Too Cool & Rikishi - ★★
> X-Pac vs Road Dogg - ★
> ...



Another person who loves the Benoit/Jericho 2/3 Falls match :mark: :mark:

Tbh that match and his match with RVD at SS 02' get barely any credit yet I feel like both really are great matches. They aren't anything I'd say was in the top 10-15 of best Benoit matches, but regardless they are certainly worth the watch and definitely fun to watch.

I wish WWE would focus on adding the best TV/house show matches from wrestlers when when they are doing these DVD sets. With how easy every ppv match is to watch in HD these days, why not mine the massive film library they have and throw on the more rare stuff? They record every single house show with at least 1 camera but usually 2-3, why not give fans access to this stuff? For instance, I was reading Regals book a few weeks ago (don't bother it's really not that good and 50% of it is just him discussing his addiction nightmare) and he says the best match of his career was at an Untelevised event in Japan vs Edge. Now, I don't for a second believe it's better than his work with Finlay, Benoit, Steamboat, Ambrose, etc but I'd still really love to see it since he claims its so great. Why not release that stuff on DVD? You can just dub in commentary from Cole and JBL, or have the wrestler themself do guest commentary like they did on the Benoit, Eddie, and Foley sets. It shouldn't be this hard to make a good match list for a DVD. I won't spend a single penny on any of these DVD sets because all the matches have already been released! They are just bilking money from the dumb fans who don't bother to look at the match list before buying it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Did Undertaker use 'Snake Eyes' in the Mankind feud? Just wondered when he started using it tbh, was it post or pre 2000 anyone know?

Or can anyone remember when he did first use it as a new move.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So the Lawler set also has one of the LLT matches against Dundee on it . Not the best one... but hell, it's still better than everything else on there. Will be downloading this for the documentary and... that;s about it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

It also has the KOTR '94 match against Piper too, which is terrible.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Count me in on the crew that liked Benoit/Jericho from Summerslam 2000. I don't see any flaws in the way they structured that match. I paid lots of attention in looking for any deficiencies in their selling which I believe somebody complained about in this thread before, but I couldn't spot anything wrong. It was a rather short match considering the stipulation, but it worked to their advantage because of how fun it was.

Which Lawler/Dundee match did they include? I and II are both ****1/2+ level. III was good too, but it's also the ugly stepchild of the trio and rather forgettable.

:lmao Did this company just book a feature WM match as the main event of the RAW less than two weeks from WM?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

This one:

*No Disqualification, Loser Leaves Town Match for the Southern Heavyweight Championship*
Jerry Lawler vs. “Superstar” Bill Dundee
_Memphis Wrestling • June 6, 1983_


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao Did this company just book a feature WM match as the main event of the RAW less than two weeks from WM?


I'm hoping that there's some kind of nonsense that stops it from happening. Otherwise, the company is unbelievably stupid.

This RAW has been horrifically bad. Not one redeeming quality.

lol at that Rusev/Cena segment. Wtf.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

This is definitely the wost RTWM. Ever. 

Well at least since I've been watching wrestling since I can really remember what's going on and that was 2006. Luckily before that I was way too young to remember anything in detail and before that, well, I wasn't even born.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Well at least there's an all time classic on the King DVD. Hopefully we can get it in full since I don;t think the version we have really is. 

I thought I wrote about it a while ago. Yey for correct again.



> Jerry Lawler v. Bill Dundee (CWA 6/6/83)
> What did I just watch? I’ve seen this more than once but I have never been so freakishly connected to it. In fact I cannot remember the last time I got this involved in a match, or the last time I thought a match was this good. It almost felt like I was watching the greatest wrestling match of all time. The opening was enough to make me a drooling fan girl. It was the greatest ‘big time fight’ boxing opening I have ever seen, and when Lawler swung that punch and Dundee flinched, fell flat on his arse and rolled out of the ring, I lost it. I had to rewind it multiple times and I swear to God it may be my new favourite wrestling match moment that has ever happened. It was the perfect opening line for this kind of loser leaves town match. The punches themselves are godly. Is there a match in history with better punches and selling of punches ever? Any fool is taught how to throw a punch in wrestling, but execution is everything, and these two don’t fuck around with selling hard punches. They don’t do the simple pissy ‘stomp and move head’, they go all out with swinging bodies and stumbling and jolting their head in the right direction of the punch. I remember multiple specific punch sells from this and I suspect I’ll remember them for a while. They’re also perfect when selling how hard the punch is. It’s like they know how much force each other will put behind the punch and sell appropriately based on that. And every punch felt big; there wasn’t a single move used to waste time, used for filler, used to set up something more elaborate– this was all important shit. Punches punches PUNCHES PUNCHES MOTHERFUCKER THE PUNCHES. Most of this is punches, but, again, execution is everything, and when you’re executing the greatest punches in any wrestling match ever then you can afford to use mostly punches. Not any two wrestlers could do this. Everything outside of punches is classic too, though. Lawler’s sell of the first shoulder block might be the best one I’ve ever seen, the missed leg drop sell might be the best I’ve ever seen, and he did ‘gets hit off of the apron and bounces off table’ better than anybody I’ve ever seen. None of this is hyperbole or exaggeration. I actually loved the referee getting involved. In a lot matches without rules they get in the way and the attention almost gets dragged towards them, but I thought the sight of Tommy Gilbert trying to tear Dundee away from the bleeding Lawler was an incredible sell of how ruthless Dundee was being; like an animal tamer stopping a lion attack. Some of the concrete spots are a little rough to think about, even if we don’t really get to see the fall. Lawler does that ‘holds onto the ropes and nearly falls backward’ spot, and actually falls. There aren’t mats here, either - it was pure concrete, so I don’t give a shit if you see it or not, just the idea of that is brutal. I’ve tried but I cannot explain this match in full detail. If I were to mention everything right with it I would have to do an honest move-by-move play-by-play. Not a single move wasted, not a single thing felt unimportant, not a single thing didn’t keep me totally gripped. Big match with a big match feel and wrestlers in the front row and fans getting unglued and just an indescribable piece of footage. I swear, this match truly feels like a surreal, unreal, all time classic. It’s basically perfect. Maybe it’s because I haven’t been watching truly amazing wrestling for a while, but I felt like if we had the full match it might be a Greatest Match of All Time contender. And it may not even be the best Jerry Lawler v. Bill Dundee match. This is the 80s.


Re-reading it, this is the most positive ''review'' or a wrestling match I've ever done.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Six man tag tonight was good. Everything else on RAW was stinky fish. Big Show squashing Erick Rowan being the worst of all things.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Is the Bryan DVD going to be a documentary as well? If so, that would be sweet :zayn3


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> Is the Bryan DVD going to be a documentary as well? If so, that would be sweet :zayn3


It's the same Journey to Wrestlemania doc from the Network with some extra clips thrown in, I believe. Same deal as the Shield.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Full content of the Jerry Lawler DVD/Blu-ray:

*Disc 1 (Documentary)*
Intro
Early Years
High School
Growing up a Memphis Wrestling Fan
Father Passes Away
Jerry’s Art Teacher
Jerry’s Start in Wrestling
Passing the Torch
Family Life as a Wrestler
Building a Star
A New Beginning for Memphis Wrestling
Andy Kaufman
Memphis Wrestling in the 1980s
Jerry’s Start in the WWE
Announcing Career
Running for Mayor of Memphis
Leaving & Returning to the WWE
Hall of Fame
1st WWE Title Match
WrestleMania XXVII
Heart Attack
Closing

*Disc 2*

Empty Arena Match
Jerry Lawler vs. Terry Funk
Memphis Wrestling • April 25, 1981

Jerry Lawler vs. Andy Kaufman
Memphis Wrestling • April 5, 1982

No Disqualification, Loser Leaves Town Match for the Southern Heavyweight Championship
Jerry Lawler vs. “Superstar” Bill Dundee
Memphis Wrestling • June 6, 1983

Jerry Lawler vs. Eddie Gilbert
Pro-Wrestling USA • October 20, 1984

Jerry Lawler vs. Curt Hennig
AWA Championship Wrestling • March 12, 1988

Jerry Lawler on Being AWA Champion
AWA Championship Wrestling • May 29, 1988

AWA & WCCW Championship Unification Match
Jerry Lawler vs. Kerry Von Erich
World Class Championship Wrestling • September 24, 1988

Jerry Lawler’s WWE Debut
Prime Time Wrestling • December 7, 1992

Jerry Lawler vs. Jim Powers
RAW • April 5, 1993

King’s Court with Giant Gonzales
Wrestling Challenge • May 23, 1993

Jerry Lawler interrupts Bret Hart’s coronation
King of the Ring • June 13, 1993

King’s Court with Tiny Tim
RAW • July 19, 1993

Jerry Lawler vs. Owen Hart
Wrestling Challenge • July 25, 1993

Bret Hart vs. Bam Bam Bigelow
RAW • July 26, 1993

King Foolish
RAW • April 11, 1994

King’s Court with “Rowdy” Roddy Piper
RAW • June 6, 1994

Jerry Lawler vs. “Rowdy” Roddy Piper
King of the Ring • June 19, 1994

Casket Match
Jerry Lawler vs. The Undertaker
White Plains, NY • September 28, 1994

*Disc 3*

King’s Court with William Shatner
RAW • January 9, 1995

Kiss My Foot Match Training #1 
RAW • June 5, 1995

Kiss My Foot Match Training #2 
RAW • June 12, 1995

“Kiss My Foot Match”
Jerry Lawler vs. Bret Hart
King of the Ring • June 25, 1995

Jerry Lawler vs. Al Jackson
Superstars • March 23, 1996

Jerry Lawler vs. Jake “The Snake” Roberts
SummerSlam • August 18, 1996

The Great Debate – Jerry Lawler vs. Paul E. Dangerously
RAW • March 10, 1997

Jerry Lawer & Rob Van Dam vs. The Headbangers
Shotgun Saturday Night • June 14, 1997

Jerry Lawler vs. Tommy Dreamer
ECW Hardcore Heaven • August 17, 1997

Jerry Lawler & Brian Christopher vs. Flash Funk & Scott Taylor
Shotgun Saturday Night • October 14, 1997

Jerry Lawler vs. Tazz
SummerSlam • August 27, 2000

Legends Match
Jerry Lawler vs. Ric Flair
RAW • November 29, 2004

Jerry Lawler – Hall of Fame Induction
Hall of Fame • March 31, 2007

TLC Match for the WWE Championship
The Miz vs. Jerry Lawler
RAW • November 29, 2010

Jerry Lawler vs. Michael Cole
Special Guest Referee: Stone Cold Steve Austin
WrestleMania XXVII • April 3, 2011

*Blu-ray Exclusives*

Stories:
Meeting Jimmy Hart
Jerry’s First Match
The King Gets His Crown
Mid-South Coliseum
Life on the Road
Sam Bass
The King vs. The King?
Living Clean
Jim Ross
Brian Christopher: Mexican Shooter

NWA World Heavyweight Championship Match
Ric Flair vs. Jerry Lawler
Memphis Wrestling • August 4, 1982

Wrestler vs. Boxer & Manager Match
Jerry Lawler vs. Andy Kaufman & Jimmy Hart
Memphis Wrestling • November 21, 1983

King’s Court with Jerry Lawler interviewing himself
Wrestling Challenge • June 27, 1993

Jerry Lawler & Nova vs. The Prototype (John Cena) & Sean O’Haire
OVW Wrestling • June 28, 2002

After Raw Birthday Celebration
RAW • November 29, 2010


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jericho vs Benoit from SummerSlam 2000 is a DUD.

Working a match w/12 minutes like they only had 5. lolz, what hot garbage. It deserves to be shat on universally.

----------

Lawler set having a Dundee match? Well then, that'll be worth a download.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Wow. The 80s didn't even get a full disc. And "Memphis Wrestling in the 80s" is a single chapter on the DVD while WrestleMania XXVII also gets a chapter of it's own. I can't come up with anything to describe how bad that is.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Yeah1993 said:


> Wow. The 80s didn't even get a full disc. And "Memphis Wrestling in the 80s" is a single chapter on the DVD while WrestleMania XXVII also gets a chapter of it's own. I can't come up with anything to describe how bad that is.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

:lmao That works.

What match (if not a match then whatever it was) was Alverez referencing in that, does anyone know? :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

P. sure it is for Jenna vs Sharmell from TNA Victory Road 2009.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

It was Jenna Morasca vs. Sharmell at Victory Road 2009. Wrestlecrap.

https://youtu.be/78TlpvYedug?t=15m34s


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kong giving the "fuck this" vibe the entire time; showing no care is my favorite part. Or Jenna's ass and her dime store hooker routine. Probably still Kong, b/c it's too funny.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

lol, I watched that trainwreck a few weeks ago after hearing so much about it being bad. Yeah, the "wrestling" in that one was comical. Even funnier that Jenna was released by TNA shortly after that "match".

About time WWE gave me something to remember in this terrible road to WM when I saw Orton fighting off the Authority with Sting.

I was hoping to finish 2000 before WM takes place but I don't think there's any chance in finishing off 4 months in less than 2 weeks. Last show of August now, Eddie vs HHH happened on Raw but for some reason, they only gave them 3 minutes. Oh, AUSTIN is returning soon too. :mark:


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Day 2 of the Daniel Bryan DVD reveal:

— John Cena vs. Brian Danielson
Velocity • February 8, 2003

— Daniel Bryan & Brie Bella vs. Ted DiBiase & Maryse
RAW • December 6, 2010

— WWE Championship Match
John Cena vs. Daniel Bryan
Special Guest Referee: Triple H
SummerSlam • August 18, 2013

link - http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/match-reveals-2-wwe-daniel-bryan-dvd-blu-ray/83995/


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The fuck's up with that Tag ma---nevermind. After reading what went down on Raw (the whole 'too much signs' fiasco), I'm surprised they're even going ahead w/a Bryan set to begin with.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

I thought Sting looked good on RAW. Looked in shape and fired up. He comes across as so much more of an enigma in WWE than he ever did in TNA.

Do people really still care about Orton though? Christ. As if the Rollins/Orton match is becoming the one they've put the most effort in to even if the effort hasn't ended up with anything good.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bubz said:


> I thought Sting looked good on RAW. Looked in shape and fired up. He comes across as so much more of an enigma in WWE than he ever did in TNA.
> 
> Do people really still care about Orton though? Christ. As if the Rollins/Orton match is becoming the one they've put the most effort in to even if the effort hasn't ended up with anything good.


Yup, they let Sting 'let loose' last night and bring his character out more and had far more freedom. The Splash, the chest beat, the 'Woo' shout. 

Was fucking great the way he was booked on Raw.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I sure haven't been that kind to this HHH/Stinger feud and have made it clear that I feel this is forced (despite Sting's history of fighting prominent stables) and not HHH's spot, but hell Sting looks in shape and showed more fire last night and in that little promo than I ever saw in TNA. Sting cut some real solid promos and played some fun character roles in TNA, but what was once a signature fire of Sting seemed always absent minus that little run vs Angle. Kinda had that Surfer energy which was nice to see. Night and Day.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Fucking christ that Bryan dvd looks like a joke already...



Bubz said:


> I thought Sting looked good on RAW. Looked in shape and fired up. He comes across as so much more of an enigma in WWE than he ever did in TNA.
> 
> Do people really still care about Orton though? Christ. As if the Rollins/Orton match is becoming the one they've put the most effort in to even if the effort hasn't ended up with anything good.


Completely agree on the first paragraph. I mean, it was a small sample, but he looks really motivated and in good shape.

Orton is WHITE hot right now if you ask me. Versus Rollins is the match I'm honestly looking forward to most on the entire card. He's been acting like a badass rebellious face (sort of like a Stone Cold) and it comes off so natural for him. He's thrown up middle fingers or made Rollins his little bitch and it's so god damn refreshing after seeing Cena being such a kid-loving good guy for so many years. He's primed for a big year with the reactions he's been getting. I'm loving it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton is literally the only reason I follow anything from the product at this point. I don't even know what was it that made me this loyal to one wrestler because I've not been like that in the past. But since they repushed him as a top star in 2013, I no longer have that sense of "it wont matter if I miss it" vibe with him like it was in 2012. It's too bad that Lesnar is probably leaving because with Orton's reactions and gained momentum, WWE would DEFINITELY make it happen as a marquee match over the next year. It was also nice that they gave him a moment with a part-timer legend, Sting, because despite being in the top 3 of full-time guys, Punk and Cena got all the glory while he got absolutely nothing. Then Bryan was put ahead of him too although he got "too over" so they've been doing everything in their power to kill him.


Back to 2000, I'm enjoying these shows leading to Unforgiven. Taker and Benoit in the closest thing to a feud between them while this Angle/HHH business is picking up and Eddie completely losing it on Chyna was some fantastic acting. It's so easy to tell Chyna really enjoyed working with Eddie. Seems that way for everyone who was around him. I also skip a lot less filler now because most of them are merged together into one segment around this time (Right to Censor, the remains of DX and Too Cool). I don't know which Edge & Christian vs Rock & Taker match Mr. Yeah brought up weeks ago but I watched this one from 4 September with Kane on commentary and it was good. I hope the one where Rock and Taker win the titles is better, though.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:mark: Austin is GOD to me.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I remember watching the main event of Unforgiven 2000 as a kid when it aired. Pissed me off so much when Rock won. I think that was the beginning of the end of my love for him because I really wanted to see Benoit or Undertaker become champ. Nonetheless, it was a good PPV.

Apparently Tatsumi Fujinami is going to the WWE HOF.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm not sure how they'd be able to book it with Rollins still carrying around MITB, but Brock vs. Orton for the belt at Summerslam with this new character from Orton would just be fantastic.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Has anyone taken into consideration the slight possibility of Rollins cashing in after the main event at WM to win the title? Or at last minute cashing in to make it a triple threat?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Has anyone taken into consideration the slight possibility of Rollins cashing in after the main event at WM to win the title? Or at last minute cashing in to make it a triple threat?


I think everyone has. It's even been brought up on RAW by Heyman and Rollins at different times, so it's either a strong possibility or they're making it too obvious for us and it won't happen. If Lesnar loses and walks away from the company, Rollins HAS to cash-in. He just has to... please.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I think everyone has. It's even been brought up on RAW by Heyman and Rollins at different times, so it's either a strong possibility or they're making it too obvious for us and it won't happen. If Lesnar loses and walks away from the company, Rollins HAS to cash-in. He just has to... please.


It's either a very dull or interesting dynamic. I think there is about a 90 percent chance of Lesnar leaving and Roman winning at Mania, at which point I think we are in for an incredibly cheesy and dull, lengthy title reign (pun intended). In that case, I think Rollins becomes Fodder to Reigns (Rollins has until what June to cash in?). It would seem quite weird for Rollins to lose after all the investment put into making him look like a top heel, but at the same time I can't see Reigns unseated and while it certainly enhances him, I don't think Seth necesarilly needs the case to continue success given his position and being one of HHH's guys. Not to mention, the company certainly values Seth, but I have a hard time seeing Vince being willing to hand over the company belt to Seth right now. Seth is a pretty good heel, but he is no Edge, has that nasly voice andwhile in incredible shape, Seth itsn't 6'5 240. If Seth gets the belt, I predict it will be as babyface. 

Now if Brock wins and somehow decides to resign, ALL BETS ARE OFF imo


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

I can't see Reigns being champion for longer than a day if he wins.

The talk today is that Brock will be staying and HHH wants him to retain and keep him as champion with Bryan and Cena main eventing as US and IC champions in Brock's absence.

If Brock goes then Reigns will win and get his moment and Rollins will cash in the next night on Raw IMO.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

i still can't believe the main event of wrestlemania is brock lesnar vs. roman reigns.

like what.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

— No Disqualification Match for the WWE Championship
CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan
Special Guest Referee: AJ Lee
Money in the Bank • July 15, 2012

— Winner Will Face Brock Lesnar At WrestleMania For The WWE World Heavyweight Championship
Daniel Bryan vs. Roman Reigns
FastLane • February 22, 2015


:lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Punk/Bryan's ok, but Bryan/Reigns?!!!










We're better off just making a compilation of our own tbh.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Bryan vs Reigns? They are definitely sabotaging this on purpose. The pettiness of this company. fpalm



funnyfaces1 said:


> I remember watching the main event of Unforgiven 2000 as a kid when it aired. Pissed me off so much when Rock won. I think that was the beginning of the end of my love for him because I really wanted to see Benoit or Undertaker become champ. Nonetheless, it was a good PPV.


I forgot to mention, I hate Taker's biker attires around this time. When will he permanently switch to wearing full wrestling clothes again? The blue jacket sucks and what seems to be the previous rendition of skinny jeans is terrible too. Not to forget the hideous pants from Survivor Series that I have yet to get to right now.

As for Benoit, I think he should've been given a quick run, a la Kane, at Fully Loaded and dropped it back to The Rock before SummerSlam. I don't like how he regresses to being IC Champion by the end of the year, though. I think he would've become a champion earlier if it wasn't for the long neck injury. They really seem to have had faith in him at this point despite his shortcomings on the mic.

*edit:* I've forgot to mention that this annoying hair-dryer fake pop they use for Smackdown is still around in 2000. I hear it in just about every show, specially during promos when there's a pause.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> I'm not sure how they'd be able to book it with Rollins still carrying around MITB, but Brock vs. Orton for the belt at Summerslam with this new character from Orton would just be fantastic.


Would be simply awesome. But I'm negative until Brock shows up after this month and makes it clear that he has re-signed a new contract. I hope them constantly bringing up his contract expiring is an attempt to redo the Punk/MITB angle with the same ending (him walking away as champion while in reality he has signed a new contract). I can't take Reigns as champion for even one minute. He is and will be a bigger flop than Luger and Diesel combined.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sooner or later, you guys will all come around and realize how good Bryan/Reigns was.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It's not even the best match they had together.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Sooner or later, you guys will all come around and realize how good Bryan/Reigns was.


You and I agree on a lot of things and disagree on just a few things, but this is certainly one of them. I'm as big a Bryan fan as anyone and I thought that match was pretty "meh". Bryan wasn't up to his usual caliber, and while Reigns brought the intensity and I commend him for that, he didn't bring much else. The match was just a bunch of kicks and a few power moves and then a finish. I didnt like the way they went about telling their story. I was hoping we would see a pissed off Danielson work brutally stiff and work over 1 of Reigns arms with strikes and a ton of wicked submission holds. I wanted him to out wrestle Reigns on the mat while Roman powers out of things and using brute force to try and keep Bryan down. I wanted Danielson to channel his performance from New Horizons vs Tyler Black when he annihilates his arm and has the intensity ramped up to 100. Instead he seemed overly passive and content to kick his way through everything. He throws and awesome kick but enough is enough.

I'm bored, I have nothing else to do, I'll rewatch Reigns/Bryan FastLane now and see if my opinion changes any.


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Sooner or later, you guys will all come around and realize how good Bryan/Reigns was.


Hot garbage. That's how good it was. There wasn't a single match that has ever happened that I would ever consider even good, in front of a crowd like that. Fuck Memphis.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I hate Bryan/Reigns. Not because of the match itself or who won or anything, but because the reception it got drove me kind of nuts. It showed me that Bryan can half-ass it and still have people think it wasn't his fault. DON'T GET ME WRONG - I in no way mean to say that if you thought Bryan was great in the match that you suck or anything. You thought he was great in it, fine. What I'm really talking about is those who seemed to admit he wasn't good and yet basically blamed Reigns for 'not giving him anything to work with.' Not that I've come to expect anything more from the WWE section on here outside of this thread. Like I get the idea those people have formed their opinions before the match even happens and it literally isn't possible for them that Reigns could look equal or better than Bryan. There's a difference between a good match and a good performance and I didn't see either in that match. Reigns gave Bryan plenty of opportunities to do something other than kick, and gave him every opportunity to friggin' sell.


I am not making good use of my Network sub. I might have to watch Mania just to justify keeping it in March. Not that I want to give a buyrate to the company who has started taking signs away for stupid reasons and asking people to remove their dress-ups while threatening to force them forfeit their front seat. I'm one of those fans now. The kind that thinks this company is so Nazi that I don't want them to have my $11.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You see that's the thing. Normally I can see why you guys like something that I don't, such as why some of you love Dr. Death Steve Williams or Bill Watts, but I just can't see any of the criticisms that you guys have of Bryan/Reigns. Well MAYBE Bryan could have stayed down a bit more for one specific spot in the match, but that's it. You guys wanted a power/technician dynamic? Well Reigns used his strength and physical advantage to get out of multiple submission attempts from Bryan such as a surfboard in the beginning of the match and the Yes Lock later on. And Bryan used his intelligence and ring intelligence to goad Reigns into running into stairs and kick him while he was entering the ring. You guys wanted aggressiveness from both guys? Well Bryan delivered some nice kicks and Roman responded with nasty forearms among other strikes. You guys wanted Bryan's offense to focus on a body part? Well there was a moment in that match where Bryan caught Reigns in his abdomen with a kick while Reigns was flying, and then Bryan cornered Reigns and kicked the crap out of Reigns in the abdomen. I never got the sense that Bryan or Reigns half-assed anything; if anything, Bryan's performance was one of the best I've seen this entire year and Reigns did very well for himself as well. What is it that you guys want?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I hate Bryan/Reigns. Not because of the match itself or who won or anything, but because the reception it got drove me kind of nuts. It showed me that Bryan can half-ass it and still have people think it wasn't his fault. DON'T GET ME WRONG - I in no way mean to say that if you thought Bryan was great in the match that you suck or anything. You thought he was great in it, fine. What I'm really talking about is those who seemed to admit he wasn't good and yet basically blamed Reigns for 'not giving him anything to work with.' Not that I've come to expect anything more from the WWE section on here outside of this thread. Like I get the idea those people have formed their opinions before the match even happens and it literally isn't possible for them that Reigns could look equal or better than Bryan. There's a difference between a good match and a good performance and I didn't see either in that match. Reigns gave Bryan plenty of opportunities to do something other than kick, and gave him every opportunity to friggin' sell.
> 
> 
> I am not making good use of my Network sub. I might have to watch Mania just to justify keeping it in March. Not that I want to give a buyrate to the company who has started taking signs away for stupid reasons and asking people to remove their dress-ups while threatening to force them forfeit their front seat. I'm one of those fans now. The kind that thinks this company is so Nazi that I don't want them to have my $11.



I sort of agree and sort of don't agree. The part I agree with is that Bryan wasn't nearly up to his standards and that he should shoulder some if not most of the blame for it not being great. When you are THAT good, you're the experienced vet, you're the best in the world, the responsibility for a match against a young, green wrestler falls on you. Now, if Bryan had been kicking ass and taking names and doing everything in his power to make it great but Reigns was just being an uncoordinated lug, then yea I wouldn't blame him, but that's not what happened.

The part I don't agree with is saying that Reigns gave Bryan plenty of opportunities to do something and he didn't. Unless we could see in both their heads and know exactly what was going on during the match, that's kinda hard to prove. Maybe Bryan had a bunch of really good ideas but Reigns wasn't comfortable doing any of them. Maybe Bryan had a bunch of good ideas but Vince or the agent shot them down and instructed them to work the match exactly as they did (my pet theory). Regardless, I just don't feel comfortable saying Reigns was better than Bryan in the match and that it's all Bryan's fault it wasn't anything great. What I do feel comfortable in saying is, Bryan seriously lacked his normal wrestling acumen and intensity that night, for whatever reason, and Reigns definitely brought the intensity but didn't being too much else to the table. At best, they are square even, because if someone is leading someone else through the match, I just don't feel it's appropriate to say the person being lead was "better". That match was designed 100% to get Reigns over, not to make Bryan look good. Normally Bryan would work his magic and both guys would end up looking great and the match would be great, but that just wasn't the case that night. Bryan did his job though, because everyone outside this thread seems to think that match was great so I can't penalize Bryan too much for it. Maybe if Reigns had done some amazing character work or some awesome selling or even some slick, well timed counters, and smart moves I would feel comfortable saying he was the better performer. But he didn't, he was just really intense, threw some gnarly forearms, and didn't totally gas out 5 minutes into it. He didn't do anything to stand out, to me, in other words.

On second thought, maybe I'm just getting way too caught up in semantics. Either way I just finished re watching and the match still wasn't great. I wouldn't say it's flat out bad because there are a few aspects I found enjoyable. But the overwhelming majority just wasn't my cup of tea. Oh well.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Didn't know people didn't like Bryan/Reigns too.. I'm over at wrestlingobserver a lot nowadays and Meltzer/Alvarez both loved it. I thought it was alright but nothing special.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I typed up this big fuckin post over several minutes and accidentally closed my browser. FUCK'S sake.

Let us instead talk about taka michinoku.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

TAKA it is then. But only after @Yeah1993 catches up with watching Tomoaki Honma's matches this year.

But as for Mr. Michinoku:

I had no clue that he wrestled in BattleARTS. Never thought of him to be that kind of worker. Is his match with Minoru Tanaka worth watching?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Didn't know people didn't like Bryan/Reigns too.. I'm over at wrestlingobserver a lot nowadays and Meltzer/Alvarez both loved it. I thought it was alright but nothing special.


Of course they loved it. They also gave Orton/Reigns at SS a ***3/4.

Bryan/Reigns was **3/4 tops for me.

If any of you guys were thinking about watching the Smackdown gauntlet match, do it. It just aired here in Canada and Bryan vs. Harper and Bryan vs. Ziggler were both fantastic. ***1/2 and **** respectively, IMO.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Just re-watched *Shield/Evolution from Payback*, for the first time since it aired.

Loved it. Have not re-watched the ER match, so I have nothing to compare it to, but I think I remember being in the minority in liking this one better than that one.

First of all, I have no idea why they were tagging when it was a no holds barred match, so yeah, that was stupid. I remember that almost took me out of the match the first time. If you can just ignore that idiotic thing, and pretend like there was a stipulation that they had to tag, you can get by that.

What I loved was that the whole match had a predatory vibe to it. The moments where someone would come out of nowhere were so well chosen, and it kept it exciting, because those moments would happen quite a bit, but they were super well-placed, and happened one moment at a time. It prevented it from being overwhelming, and allowed it to keep its predatory vibe.

Reigns' intensity was great in this. "This is my table now!!"

That tv shot from H to Seth legitimately looked like it took Seth's head off. You know it was legit when we saw H holding the tv, and it still was spectacular. 

Boo to the cameraman for showing H holding something beforehand, though, and boo to them showing Dean hiding out at one point waiting to attack.

Despite those small points, I love how menacing Evolution was, when clinically deciding who to go after next. It really did come across like they were trying to pick apart their adversaries piece by piece, and ruin them for good.

This is why I had no problem with the eliminations all coming at the end (not that I would anyway). I would really like for someone to explain why that was a bad thing. It wasn't like the way that they were eliminated defied logic at all, so I don't understand the problem. The Shield with their last breaths, worked together to take them out, and it was finally those series of well-placed "out of nowhere" moments that were happening throughout the match. That's how the Shield was able to stay in it in the first place.

The Shield continued to sell long after the win, showing that it was a war, and it took those short bursts to eek this one out.

Loved Evolution continuing to work together even after the eliminations. That was consistent with how the whole story was told throughout the match. Loved Randy handing H the sledgehammer, just when you thought that maybe it wouldn't make an appearance.

Lastly, I fucking loved the imagery of Reigns getting whipped. Very Jesus-like, and that moment stayed with me long after the match was over. I give Reigns shit, but he's really good at selling moments like that. He has a way of looking pale and ghastly, and it's just great. Maybe because this one really did hurt, lol.

****, and I encourage anyone who was negative on it to watch it again.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

RatedR10 said:


> Of course they loved it. They also gave Orton/Reigns at SS a ***3/4.
> 
> Bryan/Reigns was **3/4 tops for me.
> 
> If any of you guys were thinking about watching the Smackdown gauntlet match, do it. It just aired here in Canada and Bryan vs. Harper and Bryan vs. Ziggler were both fantastic. ***1/2 and **** respectively, IMO.


They just hate Reigns so they overrate anything decent he has


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

It's almost as if people have different *~OPINIONS~!* and that star ratings are fucking stupid. If you want to get on Big Dave's case about starzzz~! we should talk about how he overrates NJPW's shitty, filler six-man tags.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Oh lord, those six man tag ratings. ***1/2+ ratings for matches that wouldn't get one star if they happened anywhere else. Asian privilege at its finest. Dave's lack of coverage for lucha though is even worse. CMLL is putting on some of the best wrestling today, but how many people know this? They need that coverage.

Hashimoto and Jake Roberts have wrestled against each other before. Just letting you guys know.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

It's pretty bad, especially when you take into account how much better WWE Six Mans are (probably the one thing that they really do much better than NJPW). I think the only multi-man tag I've enjoyed from them all year was that recent CHAOS/Bullet Club one with Cody Hall wrestling, which was actually really great. Around the ***3/4 mark.

I can't fault Dave too much for the lack of lucha coverage. The dude only has so much time, and has an insane schedule. He's going to watch major Japanese stuff, and he's required to watch pretty much all of the WWE programming, no matter how bad it is. I will say though, I really appreciate the fact that Bryan and Vinny just said "Fuck Smackdown" and started reviewing Impact and NJPW on AXS instead. That's the sort of thing that will get people watching good wrestling, instead of WWE's current bad product.


----------



## throwbacktx (Feb 25, 2007)

LOL at them putting a Bryan/Reigns on the DVD!!! It was a good match, but it's a big Fuck you to Bryan fans.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Day 4 is the best of the bunch thus far:

*— Steel Cage Tag Team Match*
The Usos vs. Bray Wyatt & Daniel Bryan
_RAW • January 13, 2014_

*— No Disqualification Match*
Daniel Bryan vs. Randy Orton
_RAW • March 17, 2014_

*— Triple Threat Match for the WWE World Heavyweight Championship*
Randy Orton vs. Batista vs. Daniel Bryan
_WrestleMania XXX • April 6, 2014_


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Gauntlet match on this edition of SD was pretty good.


Started off with a short match and a squash, which was a slight bummer since I was hoping to see Ambrose wrestle more, but once Harper came in, things picked up considerably.

Ambrose/Harper was pretty decent, but Bryan/Harper was excellent. Possibly my pick for WWE TV Match of the Year. Bryan/Ziggler was great too, but I still preferred Bryan/Harper.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Yeah1993 said:


> I typed up this big fuckin post over several minutes and accidentally closed my browser. FUCK'S sake.
> 
> Let us instead talk about taka michinoku.


You people really need to get that Lazarus addon. It saves the text you're typing so if you ever have a crash or close your browser, you can simply recover your post.

Also saw your wall post, thanks. I've been trying so hard to find that match. Wondered if it even made tape.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

It saves the text sometimes. Sometimes. Dunno why not always, but w/e.

The match took YEARS to actually exist online. It was uploaded on youtube for like a week or something in 2009 (after it happened) and then got pulled off. Took until 2013 for it to show up again. It's existence haunted me.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> TAKA it is then. But only after @Yeah1993 catches up with watching *Tomoaki Honma's *matches this year.
> 
> But as for Mr. Michinoku:
> 
> I had no clue that he wrestled in BattleARTS. Never thought of him to be that kind of worker. Is his match with Minoru Tanaka worth watching?


Just saw this (and I know it's the section to discuss it but fuck it ) and I have to chime in. I'm glad someone else is taking notice of his work this year. The guy is freaking killing it right now and is a legit contender for WOTY for me.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Honma has been awesome all year. Had a really good match in Osaka with Ibushi (who is also doing great, ***1/2), and totally killed it with Ishii in Sendai (****3/4). I also thought he had the best match in the first round of the New Japan Cup (***). The recent tag with Shibata was also fun in a wacky way. The dude is just so over, and I'll be really disappointed if he doesn't eventually win the NEVER title. Maybe he'll actually get a win in the G1 this year. The reaction would be massive.

So yeah, it's Ibushi and Honma that are really killing it at the moment. The big 3 would be in contention if they weren't being thrown into filler six-man tags and matches with Bad Luck Fale.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I have to re-watch, but I think that the best Bray/Ambrose match is their first one (SvS '14). 

The ending was stupid, but I remember the match being surprisingly so hard-hitting. Felt like that's the type of "normal" match that Bray is meant to have, and Ambrose was matching him in that.

Great back and forth, and there were times when it seemed like Bray took Ambrose's head off. It was just the opener for their feud, so I think maybe people were expecting more character-work, but that's kind of why I liked it. I expected the match to be more theatrical rather than competitive, but it wasn't.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Forgot about funnyfaces' post. I really, really liked the Taka/Tanaka from 96, but their 99 match is apparently better and have no memory of it. I watched way too much wrestling in 2012.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Honma has been a joy to watch all year. The guy is so damn over and he deserves to win SOMETHING at some point. 

BUT, Ibushi is far and away my WOTY to this point. No one else has came close, tbh (which is a shame). No one in the WWE is worthy of being in the discussion unless Rollins has a great match with Orton (which I imagine he will).



LilOlMe said:


> I have to re-watch, but I think that the best Bray/Ambrose match is their first one (SvS '14).
> 
> The ending was stupid, but I remember the match being surprisingly so hard-hitting. Felt like that's the type of "normal" match that Bray is meant to have, and Ambrose was matching him in that.
> 
> Great back and forth, and there were times when it seemed like Bray took Ambrose's head off. It was just the opener for their feud, so I think maybe people were expecting more character-work, but that's kind of why I liked it. I expected the match to be more theatrical rather than competitive, but it wasn't.


Have you seen their Ambulance match? I never rewatched it but I totally loved it when it aired. Great selling from Ambrose and a story you could really get invested in. Thought it was far and away better than anything else in their series (although I never cared for the rivalry to begin with because of how it started).


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I need to watch more Honma. His masterpiece with "that egg shaped wonder" (as Cody would call him) Ishii from this year is the only thing I've seen from him. He's a weird looking dude, he looks like an Asian parody of an stereotypical 80's American baby face, with the bleach blonde spiked hair and super jacked phsyquie. Ishii is one of my absolute favorites to watch, dude never seems to have a bad match, but Honma more than held his own in their match and further he gave The Stone Pit Bull everything he could handle.

Anyone else get super giddy whenever Ishii fires up by yelling his Japanese gibberish that makes him sound like Hatori Hanzo from Kill Bill Vol. 1? Cause I personally think it's just about the greatest thing ever when some poor chump throws a nasty forearm at Ishii's skull, only to see Mr. Egg stare back at them with pure death in his eyes before shouting some crazy Japanese and then proceeding to whipe the floor with them. Yea, that's why I love pro wrestling, little stuff like that just makes my day.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lol Roman Reigns speared Mark Henry so hard that Henry turned face for the 50th time. What is it with these indecisive super heavyweights?

Ishii was my choice for #2 wrestler of the year last year behind Zayn. The man is very versatile and his character of being a fatass with a Napoleonic complex is running on all cylinders. My only criticism of him though is that he relies too much on the same formula for every match, and as a result things like his striking showdown and "fighting spirit" spots don't really create much drama anymore. For what it's worth, these things are also why other folks love him. I am very biased though since I don't really care for stiff wrestling, nor am I a fan of those contrived babyface no-sell spots unless if it's a one time thing from a wrestler (Punk against Aries) or if it's from The Undertaker.

Honma is basically doing in 2015 what Ishii did last year. Big difference though is Honma's emphasis of comedic timing compared to Ishii's intensity.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Have you seen their Ambulance match? I never rewatched it but I totally loved it when it aired. Great selling from Ambrose and a story you could really get invested in. Thought it was far and away better than anything else in their series (although I never cared for the rivalry to begin with because of how it started).


Yeah, I liked it, though there were some dull, dragged out, moments. Ambrose's selling was really good, and I'm a sucker for vicious looking Sister Abagails. 

I wasn't in love with it, though, but I've also realized that I tend to not be enamored with matches or segments when I watch a whole RAW live, which I did that night. The way RAW drags tends to make every segment feel kind of long. When I watch segments and matches isolated, I tend to like them a lot more.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :lol Roman Reigns speared Mark Henry so hard that Henry turned face for the 50th time. What is it with these indecisive super heavyweights?
> 
> Ishii was my choice for #2 wrestler of the year last year behind Zayn. The man is very versatile and his character of being a fatass with a Napoleonic complex is running on all cylinders. My only criticism of him though is that he relies too much on the same formula for every match, and as a result things like his striking showdown and "fighting spirit" spots don't really create much drama anymore. For what it's worth, these things are also why other folks love him. I am very biased though since I don't really care for stiff wrestling, nor am I a fan of those contrived babyface no-sell spots unless if it's a one time thing from a wrestler (Punk against Aries) or if it's from The Undertaker.
> 
> Honma is basically doing in 2015 what Ishii did last year. Big difference though is Honma's emphasis of comedic timing compared to Ishii's intensity.



No selling is tricky. You want to make sure you aren't confusing a straight up no sell with someone actually registering it and then firing up. That's how I always saw Ishii's house of fire come backs, he isn't taking pedigrees and popping up with a straight up no sell like Ultimate Warrior, or taking SCM and then sitting up immediately after like Taker. Usually, he takes a really stiff forearm, registers the hit and maybe looks a little dazed for a second, THEN fires up and comes back like pint sized Tasmanian Devil. There IS a difference there. It's also based in reality, as Foley said later in his career, he would need to get hit in the head really hard to get his patented intensity back. Earlier in his career he would sit backstage all alone listening to Tori Amos on his head phones and rock back and forth visualizing the entire match and building his intensity so that by the time his music hit he wasn't Mick Foley anymore, he was Cactus fucking Jack and he was ready to lay waste to his opponent. By 2004 that no longer worked, so he'd have Edge or Randy Orton hit him with a stiff shot to the head and it would be like getting a bucket of ice water dumped on him, he'd immediately get filled with anger and become the Hardcore Legend again. So that's kinda what I've felr Ishii was going for when he does his deal, he never all out shits on his opponent, at least not from what I've seen. He registers the hit and then transforms into the Stone Pit Bull and gets to stomping mud holes and walking them dry.

More than anything that was just an excuse to tell that Mick Foley annecdote that I thought was rather amusing when I heard him say it on the guest commentary for his matches in 2004 & 2006. How that man has any brain cells left is a miracle in and of itself, the fact that he's still razor sharp and can do a traveling stand up show is even more impressive. 

Funnyfaces1- did you see the Ishii/Ibushi match from the G1 in 2014? It might be my favorite Ishii match ever, he's in rare form that night and that match made me a true fan of Ibushi. That kid has something really special, he's not a senseless big spot guy at all, he's a freak of nature athlete that's an honest to goodness baby face with fire. He always manages to make me get behind him in his matches, even when he's wrestling one of my favorites like Nakamura or Ishii.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Been reading a lot of praise for EC3 vs Spud from Impact and Mil Muertes vs Fenix Casket Match from Lucha Underground.

Has anyone here seen those matches? Worth seeing?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

am i still in the WWE section? :hmm:

i've got to find a post in here, i think it was last week or the week before. someone rated all the shield 6 man tags, i think a couple of other people did too. i'm in the mood to watch now

shield/wyatts
shield/evolution
shield/team hell no and ryback

i know there are heaps, but i cant remember them all. 

also in a mood for survior series traditional 5v5's. i know i havent watched all of them, so i want to get on that too. 

anyone have any recommendations for some more 6 man tags from wwf, wcw, ecw at any time period?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Shield Match list

It has house show matches too, so just look the right & you'll see which ones aired on TV/PPV, etc.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Aside from NXT, I'm feeling pretty disillusioned with WWE at the moment so I need to branch out. 

I've downloaded the latest episodes of Lucha Underground, ROH, and NJPW. Where should I begin?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Raylan Givens said:


> Been reading a lot of praise for EC3 vs Spud from Impact and Mil Muertes vs Fenix Casket Match from Lucha Underground.
> 
> Has anyone here seen those matches? Worth seeing?


EC3 vs. Spud is fine. Nothing special really. Muertes vs. Fenix on the other hand is pretty fantastic. Mil's performance was godly as he beat the living hell outta that kid. My only problem was the finish as it just didn't come off as believable, but the match and the story are still pretty sweet. 

Both matches are bloodbaths, but you can skip EC3/Spud and won't be missing much. Just a lot of punching with a hot crowd for Spud.



admiremyclone said:


> Aside from NXT, I'm feeling pretty disillusioned with WWE at the moment so I need to branch out.
> 
> I've downloaded the latest episodes of Lucha Underground, ROH, and NJPW. Where should I begin?


LU is a must watch this week. Main event is fantastic and Aerostar/Drago have their best match to date. Check out last week's too with Mundo/Cuerno in the cage. ROH is completely skippable if you're referring to the one with Bucks/Kingdom. Idk what's on NJPW on AXS, so can't help ya there.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

*Re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues &amp; Bobby Eaton*



Raylan Givens said:


> Been reading a lot of praise for EC3 vs Spud from Impact and Mil Muertes vs Fenix Casket Match from Lucha Underground.
> 
> Has anyone here seen those matches? Worth seeing?


Watch the TNA match. Spud nailed in a career performance there and legit looked like a star babyface. Match has its flaws, of course, but the typical TNA interference felt somewhat integral to the match narrative (or you could at least excuse it to some point).

If you're following LU then give the Muertes/Fenix match a go. It felt like a much lesser attempt at Spud/EC3 (which they did try work off with the "uncensored lucha" tagline/selling point) but Muertes is cool at working over smaller faces. Fenix bleeds a fuckload, too, just he isn't much of a sympathy garnering wrestler there.

Edit: didn't see Jack Evan's post but I enjoyed how opposing our views are. So helpful to the guy. :lol:


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

This Vader/Sting strap match I don't recall seeing is really, really good. Not violence just for the sake of violence (cough CZW or Tommy Dreamer matches), but certainly enough to tell the story and physicality off the charts. Loved the role Vader played here with his slow, grinding pace and more concentration on destroying Sting rather than winning. Like how this match is structured in general with Stinger having to do all he can and when on the defensive needing to use the ring alot to cut off Vader's few attempts since Vader is the stronger and much bigger man obviously. Some pretty slick stuff with the strap itself ie" how Vader had been pulling Sting with ease resulting in Sting with the front bump, yet at the end Vader pulled in Sting and Sting did a koppu kick to Vader. Some of those Dusty Bullrope matches were overkill for me and I haven't watched the JBL/Guerrero bullrope match in years, but I would have to think especially with the intensity, physicality and violent ynsible story told this is the best match of a strap/bullrope etc. variant. Just a blueprint on American physical wrestling. ****1/2 imo. 

Tell you what, Sting and Vader.... not a whole lot of pairs had that chemistry.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WrestlingOracle said:


> This Vader/Sting strap match I don't recall seeing is really, really good. Not violence just for the sake of violence (cough CZW or Tommy Dreamer matches), but certainly enough to tell the story and physicality off the charts. Loved the role Vader played here with his slow, grinding pace and more concentration on destroying Sting rather than winning. Like how this match is structured in general with Stinger having to do all he can and when on the defensive needing to use the ring alot to cut off Vader's few attempts since Vader is the stronger and much bigger man obviously. Some pretty slick stuff with the strap itself ie" how Vader had been pulling Sting with ease resulting in Sting with the front bump, yet at the end Vader pulled in Sting and Sting did a koppu kick to Vader. Some of those Dusty Bullrope matches were overkill for me and I haven't watched the JBL/Guerrero bullrope match in years, but I would have to think especially with the intensity, physicality and violent ynsible story told this is the best match of a strap/bullrope etc. variant. Just a blueprint on American physical wrestling. ****1/2 imo.
> 
> Tell you what, Sting and Vader.... not a whole lot of pairs had that chemistry.


Agree 100%. That SuperBrawl III strap match is pretty much perfect in execution. And as you said, the innate chemistry between Sting and Vader is impeccable, they never had a bad match that I'm aware of and ALL of their PPV matches (GAB 92', Starrcade 92', SuperBrawl III, and Slamboree 94') are just great, great matches. Harley blading Vaders back was a really nice touch, it put over just have gnarly getting whipped with that leather strap would be. That match also has one of my favorite fans in it, this old lady sitting near the front just goes absolutely berserk when Sting makes his big come back and starts whipping Vader around like a dog. It cracks me up every time I see it, she is just so into it and she reminds me of my grandma.

As for other strap like matches, the only one I'd put over Vader/Sting would be the Piper/Valentine Dog Collar match at Starrcade 1983. IMO that's really one of the greatest matches ever. Outside of that, Eddie/JBL Bullrope Match at GAB 04' is a GREAT match, Triple H/Kane Chain Match at JD 01' is really, really good, Austin/Savion Carribean Strap match at IYH: Beware of Dog is great, and the Austin/Regal Strap Match on Raw in 2001 is really really good. That's about all I can think of for great strap type matches. The worst I can remember seeing is either Vader/Hogan or Triple H/The Rock. Most dissapointing was Henry/Sheamus, but Henry was really injured so it's somewhat understandable.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> No selling is tricky. You want to make sure you aren't confusing a straight up no sell with someone actually registering it and then firing up. That's how I always saw Ishii's house of fire come backs, he isn't taking pedigrees and popping up with a straight up no sell like Ultimate Warrior, or taking SCM and then sitting up immediately after like Taker. Usually, he takes a really stiff forearm, registers the hit and maybe looks a little dazed for a second, THEN fires up and comes back like pint sized Tasmanian Devil. There IS a difference there. It's also based in reality, as Foley said later in his career, he would need to get hit in the head really hard to get his patented intensity back. Earlier in his career he would sit backstage all alone listening to Tori Amos on his head phones and rock back and forth visualizing the entire match and building his intensity so that by the time his music hit he wasn't Mick Foley anymore, he was Cactus fucking Jack and he was ready to lay waste to his opponent. By 2004 that no longer worked, so he'd have Edge or Randy Orton hit him with a stiff shot to the head and it would be like getting a bucket of ice water dumped on him, he'd immediately get filled with anger and become the Hardcore Legend again. So that's kinda what I've felr Ishii was going for when he does his deal, he never all out shits on his opponent, at least not from what I've seen. He registers the hit and then transforms into the Stone Pit Bull and gets to stomping mud holes and walking them dry.
> 
> Funnyfaces1- did you see the Ishii/Ibushi match from the G1 in 2014? It might be my favorite Ishii match ever, he's in rare form that night and that match made me a true fan of Ibushi. That kid has something really special, he's not a senseless big spot guy at all, he's a freak of nature athlete that's an honest to goodness baby face with fire. He always manages to make me get behind him in his matches, even when he's wrestling one of my favorites like Nakamura or Ishii.


No-selling definitely is tricky, as there are moments where something like a punch not hurting someone can work perfectly. But there are many instances where actual moves do no damage on a wrestler, and that's where I draw the line. For instance, last week there was a match between Hirooki Goto and Katsuyori Shibata where both guys traded and no-sold suplexes and it was one of the stupidest things I've seen this month. I also can't get into no-selling becoming an established part of a wrestler's gimmick unless if they're a zombie. It's why I am not a fan of Jerry Lawler matches even though I acknowledge that he is a legit candidate for GOAT. I just prefer my babyfaces to be more "vulnerable" in a sense. In particular, I love babyfaces like Eddie or Punk who use their intelligence and craftiness to win matches rather than magical powers.

I did see an Ishii/Ibushi match from 2014, but I think you're thinking of the Back to Yokohama match. That match was very good, but there are a few other Ishii matches from last year that I preferred over that one. That really just shows how good the man was last year. The man just seems to get the best out of the guy he works with, which I guess is why I can look past his obsession with working stiff, a la Stan Hansen or Dick Murdoch. Please check out Ishii/Honma from this year. You won't regret it.

SD Gauntlet match ruled. Bryan and Ziggler should main event Extreme Rules this year for the IC Title. If they do, I'll certainly buy tickets to go to the show.

EC3 vs. Rockstar Spud was so much fun. You don't get those bloody ends to big feuds anymore in mainstream wrestling, but you get it here and it worked so well. Hometown pup vs. one of the best heels in America in an absolute war. I thought the interference spots were done very well too as they were short and they didn't interrupt the flow of the match. Definitely one of my favorite bouts from this year.

Everybody should watch every single episode of Lucha Underground. And then they should get ready for next week's show. The card for next week is honestly more stacked than Wrestlemania.

The best example of the Sting/Vader chemistry is that Fall Brawl 1994 triangle match. What a terrible stipulation that made no sense, yet somehow Sting and Vader made it awesome.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> No-selling definitely is tricky, as there are moments where something like a punch not hurting someone can work perfectly. But there are many instances where actual moves do no damage on a wrestler, and that's where I draw the line. For instance, last week there was a match between Hirooki Goto and Katsuyori Shibata where both guys traded and no-sold suplexes and it was one of the stupidest things I've seen this month. I also can't get into no-selling becoming an established part of a wrestler's gimmick unless if they're a zombie. It's why I am not a fan of Jerry Lawler matches even though I acknowledge that he is a legit candidate for GOAT. I just prefer my babyfaces to be more "vulnerable" in a sense. In particular, I love babyfaces like Eddie or Punk who use their intelligence and craftiness to win matches rather than magical powers.
> 
> I did see an Ishii/Ibushi match from 2014, but I think you're thinking of the Back to Yokohama match. That match was very good, but there are a few other Ishii matches from last year that I preferred over that one. That really just shows how good the man was last year. The man just seems to get the best out of the guy he works with, which I guess is why I can look past his obsession with working stiff, a la Stan Hansen or Dick Murdoch. Please check out Ishii/Honma from this year. You won't regret it.
> 
> ...


I've seen the Ishii/Honma match from this year, that's how the topic of Ishii came up in the first place, I mentioned seeing that match and loving it 

And you're right, the Ishii/Ibushi match I'm thinking of wasn't from G1, it was the Yokohoma one on 5/25/14. I don't even know if they had a match at last years G1.

In general, I agree, Taker is the only wrestler who can flat out no-sell things and have me get really excited about it. Probably because he's such an ace salesman that when he DOES no-sell he's doing it on purpose and for effect, because he is the Deadman after all. Austin calls what Taker does "selling on the run", and he said Taker is the guy that always got him closest to completely blowing up, because you would work on him, beating him down and getting a ton of shine or heat on him for 15 solid minutes, then out of nowhere he sits up and it's back to square one and you've gotta give him back everything you just took, plus more. That's kinda funny when you think about it, how Takers opponent must feel when they see him sit up after 15 solid minutes of work. It's gotta be like running a marathon only to have them move the finish line back 2 miles when you're only 100 yards away from winning.

However, when I see Dynamite Kid and Tiger Mask trade tombstones, Dynamite delivering one tomstone only to have Tiger Mask pop right up and give Dynamite one...yea I'm not really into that stuff. But what I hate even more is never ending finisher/false finish trading like in that Richards/Elgin Showdown in the Sun match. Happens a lot in WWE main events now, it's like ever since people saw Taker and HBK tear it down at WM 25 trading finishers and false finishes, people keep trying to duplicate that match not realizing it simply isn't possible. That match worked because it was Shawn Michaels vs the Undertaker at WrestleMania. Two guys we have watched for a combined 40 years who are known for their amazing performances at WrestleMania, and combined with the fact that the Streak was on the line, the single most important thing anyone could do in the history of the WWE from a kayfabe standpoint would be to end the Streak. That's why it worked, so when anyone else tries to duplicate what they did, inevitably it'll come up miles short and devolve into mindless dog shit wrestling.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Sting/Vader is what I'd call the best US gimmick match of the 90s unless Hart/Austin is a gimmick match (I guess it is).

I'll try to finish NOC 2010 today.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Pfft, 1997 alone has at least 2 gimmick matches that are better than it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Only if you count Mask/Hair as a gimmick match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I was thinking more of some kind of cell. Perhaps the location was hell. My memory isn't what it used to be.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Nah nah man Halloween Havoc in was in Las Vegas.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

On what planet is Hogan/Piper better than Sting/Vader?


----------



## TheChoppingMachine (Mar 25, 2014)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> And you're right, the Ishii/Ibushi match I'm thinking of wasn't from G1, it was the Yokohoma one on 5/25/14. I don't even know if they had a match at last years G1.


Ibushi wasn't in the 2014 Climax. He was replaced by HONMA.
Nice to see some random Honma/Ishii/Ibushi love BTW.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Has anybody seen any of ADR stuff since he left, anything good ?


----------



## Sweettre15 (Feb 27, 2014)

So for anyone that has watched the Bret Hart "Best There Is, Best there was and Best there ever will be" DVD, which I enjoy a lot.

I was left curious, What's the name of the song playing during the Black/White video package of the Austin/Bret feud?

Been having a ridiculously hard time finding it?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Renee said:


> Has anybody seen any of ADR stuff since he left, anything good ?


Check out his ROH matches against Jay Lethal (13th Anniversary Show) and Roderick Strong (Winter Warriors Dayton). *** 1/2 and **** respectively from me. Other than that, they've all been pretty much showcase matches to introduce him to a new company. He has a bullrope match coming up next week on Lucha Underground against Texano, so I'm keeping an eye out for that.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Del Rio worked ROH? Cool. If AJ Styles has been as good as heel as everyone says he's been he needs to work babyface Alberto ASAP.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Looks like we are getting our NoC 2010 review.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

It's on right now. I wasn't planning on submitting that reply above until I finished the show/write-up so it could be one post but accidentally hit enter like a stupid goofball after only typing the first letter.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I think New Japan is the only place AJ works heel (unfortunately). If he's a heel in ROH, he certainly doesn't wrestle like he is. 

The company has FOUR joint shows with NJPW coming up in May, so I'm hoping they come up with some big dream matches along the way.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Rotf at them having Henry show a clip of him getting his ass kicked the week before on Smackdown. Who the fuck does that?!

Him putting Roman over after getting his ass kicked is kind of typical, but who the hell actually says "let's watch a clip of it again"?

This Roman push is horrible, because they can't even book simple shit like that in a realistic manner. It so reminded me of them ruining the entire Royal Rumble booking, solely on the basis of trying to protect Reigns. They literally threw the entire match away, because they didn't want anyone else or any other moment to get real, sustained, shine.

Couldn't have anyone that the fans liked there at the end, to build drama or intrigue, because God forbid they root for them over Reigns.

Just awful.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

So, the SD! Gauntlet Match rocked face, and maybe that was the bargaining chip for Bryan - no Title chase or big return, and you have to put Reigns over on the mic and in the ring - do that, and you get 20 televised minutes in the ring on SD! most every week bama 

Not really interested in WM this year, but there's an annual party thrown for it and 'DAT WM Buffet table :mark: Work-out plans and diet reward days are planned around this one signature event (not mine, but you get the picture).

Seriously though, that Gauntlet match is great. Commentary even kicks ass for most of it - Lawler really nails the physicality in his calls. I thought the whole thing was booked very well. I appreciated every fall - and really liked Bryan dropping the Heel Hook on Harper. Yessing during the Surfboard had me :lol How anyone thinks it's "The same 'ol Bryan" or "All he does is kick" I have no idea. **** for the match as a whole, it just had a really awesome progression and told great stories _in the ring_ on every fall.

ETA: Unrelated: What is everyone's thoughts on Jay Lethal's recent run as Television Champ? I find myself, at the very least, wanting to like what he puts forth because I'm fond of the gimmick. He's also got an 80's sort of shout to his delivery on the mic. The promo he cut on Del Rio before the 13th Anniversary Show had the perfect mix of :mark:/:lmao for me. Probably my favorite promo all year so far.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

JustJoel said:


> Seriously though, that Gauntlet match is great. Commentary even kicks ass for most of it - Lawler really nails the physically in his calls. I thought the whole thing was booked very well. I appreciated every fall - and really liked Bryan dropping the Heel Hook on Harper. Yessing during the Surfboard had me :lol How anyone thinks it's "The same 'ol Bryan" or "All he does is kick" I have no idea. **** for the match as a whole, it just had a really awesome progression and told great stories _in the ring_ on every fall.


I really liked the Gauntlet as well.

You're right about Lawler. One thing he doesn't get credit for is that I feel like he reacts to moves in a genuine way. He really does react like a fan does, when a move takes him by surprise. It's cool, and it's weird because generally he seems to phone it in, but in moments like that, I second-guess myself.

The surfboard/yes moment was cool. And Bryan's strong.

I hope they allow Zig & Bryan to feud after WM. There's clearly interest from the crowd.

And Goodness, I hope they do something with Harper.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Aw hell, that was a gauntlet match? I caught Harper/Ambrose and thought it was fun. When I got back into the room they did a Noble/Mercury thing so I turned it off.


-----------------------
*Night of Champions 9/19/10
*


Dolph Ziggler v. Kofi Kingston
Not as good as SummerSlam, but still pretty good. Ziggler spends most of the match on top. Kind of lost me with all of the rest holds, but he did some cool stuff. Really, really dug him trying to pin Kofi near the ropes, and pulling in Kofi’s arm just in case. He forgot a leg, but it looked juuust far enough that Kofi would struggle to reach the rope by 3. Kofi’s comeback was better than usual. He looked like he was actually punching. Instead of the thing he usually does where it looks like he’s trying to clean his wrist on his opponent’s forehead. Ziggler was pretty lame when trying to stop the cut-offs, though. I think two or three times in the match he just did a mild mid-section kick (like a pre-Stunner thing). Always pop for the Sleeper, though. Favourite part of the match was probably Kofi not diving on Dolph but just falling on him. Made him look angry. Made him look angrier when he started punching Ziggler in the face after he landed. Made him looks less angry because the punches sucked. Forgot to mention Ziggler loses the title if he gets Dqed or counted out; they don’t really touch on that until the end. Vickie goes to slap Kofi and Dolph stops her. Dolph wins anyway so IDK. They’ll probably touch on that in their 340th anniversary match next PPV. NOT ADDING.

CM Punk v. The Big Show
Punk cuts a really good pro-Chicago, anti-Chicagonians promo (this PPV is in Chicago) and segues into the Big Show by going “speaking of fat people that nobody likes.” Awesome. The match was fun. I don’t think I ever really realised it but Punk works really well against bigger guys. I don’t really know if I’ve seen him face more than…seven guys that you could consider ‘big’, but it isn’t just the Henry match from 2012 that makes me want to see the whole Punk/Umaga feud. I remember checking out a fun Punk/Test from 2006 and I CAN’T STAND Punk from 2006. In this Big Show match he was scurrying everywhere and making sure that - if he got on top - that he was always on top. That not only made him look desperate to not lose his edge to the bigger guy, but made him look smaller. Or, to make it sound not silly; made the Big Show look bigger. Like how Jerry runs circles around Tom and hurries about when he’s setting up a trap. This finishes up pretty quickly but I actually liked how it ended. Punk ate a gigantic spear after coming from the top rope, and then got punched directly in the face. Show goes down to pin while holding his ribs and has that “c’mon stay down you bastard” look on his face. Neither guy looked bad. NOT ADDING.


The Miz v. Daniel Bryan
--Pre-match thoughts: When I watched this four years ago, I had to mute the volume for I think only the second time ever in any match. Let’s see if I can hold on this time.
--Post-match thoughts: Huh, Commentary was not that bad at all. Actually I thought it was kind of neat that Cole sometimes tried to be objective until the Miz was REALLY in trouble and showed his true colours. 
Match is every bit as good as remembered. Actually probably better because I had no recollection of the ARM WORK in it. I loves limb work. Came right after Bryan got his shine stuff like SummerSlam (he’s the underdog etc…which is kind of funny. I mean even in 2010 the Miz being “above” Bryan Danielson seemed weird but hearing in 2015 the Miz say Bryan will never be a star, even if kayfabe, got a chuckle out of me). And you know the whole arm work ‘period’, I thought that the Miz did enough to make it look like he knew how to at least wrestle, but not enough that it looks silly that he’s outwrestling Bryan Danielson. I remember this Fujiwara/somebody match from sometime in the 2000s that I watched a while ago and IIRC the somebody got out of all of Fujiwara’s stuff super easy and I was like “fuck off, it’s Fujiwara.” Yeah, that. I didn’t feel that. Bryan’s arm selling was the best arm selling in 2010 this side of Christian, and he had it going the WHOLE match after that. Not once did I think that arm wasn’t getting in the way of him doing something. Right down to keeping it at his side during a punch war. Right down the climbing the ropes. Right down to fucking up putting on the last crossface lock thing five times. Bryan’s comeback was super great and throwing in the vs. Jericho dive was the best part. I mentioned how Punk scurried around and it made him smaller, well this I kind of the same thing but instead of looking smaller he just looked smaller on the card/in the pecking order. He needed the win. Finish stretch kind of came out of nowhere directly after Bryan got his stuff in and that felt juuuust right. Bryan had to muster up whatever he had to pump through the injured arm and the Miz JUST got beat down. Both guys were of equal energy and ready to get over their tiredness. The nuts-on-rope > clothesline spot was great. Usually you feel like WWE has a spot like that planned so the entire match can be remembered for that one moment and they can shove it into a video package down the road. This just looked like the Miz took every advantage he possibly could and Bryan landing on the arm was the cake’s icing. Everything after that rocked and I totally believed it could’ve finished at any one of those pinfalls. Crowd were sucked in, too. Anything else to say? Oh, yeah, fuck Alex Riley. Not even he bothered me here. The guy who could barely get carried by Drew McIntyre actually added to a match. If I actually rated the matches on this PPV based on usefulness as a scrambled egg-maker like I said it would, this would be Nigella Lawson. At least somewhat sober. ADDING.

Diva Lumberjilly Unify two titles someone cares probably match
The Network was freezing like hell during the match. I was going to watch more but fine, fuck you, then. I’ll sick to XWT next month, wanker. UNSUBBED (on the 31st). Match could have been OK if it wasn’t a ‘lumberjill.’ They didn’t do much other than after McCool pissed them off. Commentators were actually mentioning how they’re supposed to throw the wrestlers back into the ring and they just didn’t. One of the women (don’t even know who) tried throwing a hilarious forearm during a brawl and the one she was aiming for (don’t know who) just brushed it off like ‘nah.’ NOT ADDNG.

Kane v. The Undertaker
I didn’t give a flying ass of a rat’s shit about this going into it. It was pretty good, though. Taker has this way of wrestling these No DQ matches like this one; I’ll call it “WWE Brawl Done Right.” Like a WWE Brawl to me is usually filled with stupid gimmicky spots like people flying through TV monitors and usually a big silly thing that exist just so they can put it on a ‘Best Of’ DVD. Taker instead makes the other guy look good while not making himself look stupid. He knows how to act tired and all of that babyface shit, while getting the big hope spots in (this one had a really cool over-the barricade dive thingy). He does all of that while injecting a bunch of “the Phenom” character stuff, and by this point he did it without ever doing horrible no-sell spots. Kane’s boxing punch shit on Taker was really cool and Taker totally made it by teasing like he was going to Hulk Up but instead drowsily makes the biggest effort he can to at least even things up. Dude’s pretty great at keeping that drowsiness through his snake eyes/leg drop/boot/chokeslam/whatever he does too. Tends to collapse on the ropes. Wait, uh, holy shit, am I trying to describe the Undertaker as if no one here’s ever seen him? Uh, this had a spot where Taker threw Kane into a big stone pole. So, uh, 0/10. NOT ADDING. 

Tag Team Turmoil
Theses matches are kind of funny to me. I love seeing the pre-match picture with everyone standing together. It’s always so random. Reminds me of that picture you see that’s like Snoop Dogg, Kim Kardashian, Lady Gaga, Oprah Winfrey, Gordon Ramsey, Yao Ming and Meat Loaf and you look at it like “this is the most random set of people holding hips I’ve ever seen.”
I’ll do this mainly in dot points:
*Harts v. Usos – Did Kidd get pinned by a fucking stomp to the head? AFAIR he had the sharpshooter on an Uso and the other Uso came in and broke it up…and what he broke it up with got Tyson pinned. If I actually cared I’d’ve rewound it but whatever.
*Usos v. Santinto/Kozlov – Santino comes in with a bunch of really fun, energetic babyface offense and then gets pinned in one move. Are the Usos terminators in this thing?
*Usos v. Henry/Bourne – Was happy to hear Henry’s music get the biggest pop. Bourne is so goddamn smooth with all of his stuff. Hits a rana like it’s just a clothesline to him. He knees like nobody else, too. Henry always does one thing every match to make me smile and here he decides it’s to just shove an Uso from the rope to the barricade. Just, one arm - ~whoosh~~. Henry/Bourne beat the terminators and the city is saved.
*Henry/Bourne v. Rhodes/McIntyre – here’s a match I didn’t know I wanted to see. Realistically I’d like to see something more along he lines of Henry/McIntyre v. Bourne/Rhodes (preferably not Rhodes but Sheamus or someone else great for a hot tag), but I got excited at the thought of McIntyre selling for Henry. I didn’t even think about Bourne selling for McIntyre, which dominated the match and was awesome. McIntyre filled it with rough stretches and a killer rib-break or whatever it and he always comes off as so violent, no matter how much Matt Striker tries to ruin it each time with his shitty commentary. Bourne is amazing at ragdoll. And that bee-yuuuutiful knee to the face which McIntyre sold like…well like a knee to the face. Henry’s hot tag started out poorly which made me think how he’d work as a hot tag to begin with, but then he did a gorilla press and I was like “yeah there’s something there.” Give these four enough time and I’m positive they’d have a match on my list. NOT ADDING.

Sheamus v. John Cena v. Chris Jericho v. Edge v. Wade Barrett v. Randy Orton
Typing that^ made me laugh more and more with each name and feel bad for myself because I was really not looking forward to this. I hate these types of WWE main events. Hate them. There are many worse forms of wrestling There are much worse forms of wrestling. There are many, much worse forms of wrestling. But I cannot stand this type of wrestling. Can. Not. Stand. It. The throwing in and out, the phony “Cena/Orton for 700th time holy shit” stand off bullshit, the RKOs out of nowhere that aren’t out of nowhere and the receiver looks dumb for not getting out of the way, the even though this is an elimination match they don’t act like it stuff, the teaming up but not really (Edge and Sheamus seemed to forget about teaming up out of nowhere), the shit where a guy lays dead for an hour and is an afterthought until he comes back into the match. The whole 9. I hate it. But this brought something new. Jericho gets eliminated by an RKO two minutes in. And gets up immediately. Like a total no sell. Gets up with a surprised look on his face, then the other 5 wrestlers take like FIVE MINUTES TO WATCH HIM WALK AWAY. Fuck you. Fuck this kind of wrestling. NOT ADDING.

Final thoughts: Not bad. Maybe I’m growing thicker skin to bad WWE PPVs but I feel like this and SummerSlam have been all right. Been actually fun to write about them, too. Sometimes I don’t know what to say so I fling it off into a pop culture reference as a comparison. Even though I’m not the most ‘hip’ when it comes to that. I had to google “basketball player chinese” just to get Yao Ming’s name. 

My Network sub has not been put to good use so to make up for it I’m going to try to watch as much 2010 PPV as I can until March ends in 10 days. I might start Hell in a Cell in a couple hours. Aw fuck, the next PPV is Hell in a Cell. Way to ruin a gimmick match.




Current list:



Spoiler: WHATTUP?



1.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (SmackDown 2/12/10)
2.	John Cena v. Batista (Extreme Rules 4/25/10)
3.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Over the Limit 5/23/10)
4.	The Miz v. Daniel Bryan (Night of Champions 9/19/10)
5.	Jack Swagger v. Rey Mysterio (SmackDown 6/11/10)
6.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/16/10)
7.	Rey Mysterio v. Jack Swagger (Money in the Bank 7/18/10)
8.	Christian v. Ezekiel Jackson (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
9.	Christian/Kane v. William Regal/Ezekiel Jackson (ECW 1/26/10)
10.	John Cena/Edge/Chris Jericho/Bret Hart/John Morrison/R-Truth/Daniel Bryan v. The Nexus (SummerSlam 8/15/10)
11.	Shawn Michaels v. The Undertaker (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
12.	William Regal v. Evan Bourne (SuperStars 3/4/10)
13.	Chris Jericho v. Evan Bourne (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
14.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Extreme Rules 4/29/10)
15.	The Undertaker v. Rey Mysterio (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
16.	Drew McIntyre v. Kaval (SmackDown 9/10/10)
17.	Kofi Kingston v. Drew McIntyre (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
18.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
19.	d
20.	d
21.	d
22.	d
23.	d
24.	d
25.	d




Other contenders:


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Harper is really more in the mold of the Undertaker than Wyatt imo. He's got a slow, measured delivery on the mic and a sort of elegance in the ring for a guy his size. And he never loses a staring contest 

I think he still needs stretch his arms a bit more, and make his best stuff more routine and impactful. No heyaheyaheya? What gives? And Gator Roll the bejeezus out of people. One puny, quick roll isn't enough for me. Like Cesaro and European Uppercuts - you could work an entire match around it, and that works for me.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

@Yeah1993, a while ago I went to read your 2010 reviews because, and I'm pretty sure you forgot a few TV matches that you had in your list (I remember a Christian/Regal ECW match and a Mysterio/Knox match too); but yeah. NOC review was fun as hell, as usual. Glad that Miz/Bryan gets some recognition. Miz never had and will never have a better singles match in his entire life. Shame that this Bryan couldn't have been unleashed on Reigns at Fastlane just because ROMAN HAD TO LOOK STRONG.

As far as HIAC is concerned, here's what I remember: Bryan/Miz/Morrison was fucking awesome, Cena/Barrett damn good too, and I thought Orton/Sheamus was ok. Don't recall Edge/Swagger or the Divas match. Kill yourself before Kane/Taker.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Craaaaap, thanks for that one. I must've done the list on a different computer a couple times and forgotten to update it on this one. Forgot I even watched those, what a doofus thing to do. Fixed it up there^. Wow, I have over 20 matches. In a year and a half. Swell.

I had HIAC on but, you know what? YOU KNOW WHAT? HELL with it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

funnyfaces1 said:


> On what planet is Hogan/Piper better than Sting/Vader?


Some crazy planet where everyone is born without a brain, probably .

I keep meaning to re-watch Jiz/Bryan from NOC, but I'm always waaay too lazy to do so lol. It's on that single disc Superstar Collection DVD for Bryan, right? Cos I have that somewhere around here.

Taker/Kane was really good last time I saw it. Great fight between them. Shame their HIAC match... happened. Speaking of Taker, did you watch the Punk match on SD the week or so before NOC? Think that's when it happened anyway.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Think exactly the same as what Cal said regarding the idea of "Hogan/Piper > Sting/Vader". Sting/Vader is an epitome of sheer violence and exploiting a concept that provides so much potential limitations like a Strap match to its full capacities.

And Yeah, I'm either I'm blinded by stupidity or I can't see any actual editing of the list up there  But anyway, I found this list that some guy in some award show of his podcast made as his top 4 WWE TV matches of 2010:
- Sheamus vs. Morrison Falls Count Anywhere
- Miz vs. Lawler TLC
- Edge vs. Rey vs. ADR on SD
- Edge vs. Orton vs. Jericho on Raw (I so want you to watch that 8*D)

Would be curious to see you review those, especially those three-ways just to see you shit on them :lol


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Where did I edit it then? Might've accidentally edited it in a post from a year ago. :lmao I am on a roll.

I watched Punk/Taker when it happened, haven't seen it again yet for the list. I'll check out all four of those TV matches. I had already planned to check out the first two, and the third is a Rey match. Last one sounds like a form of Chinese torture but if it winds up a trainwreck I should have fun writing about it.

------------

BOOM. CLAP. THE SOUND OF MY HEART--

Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/30/10)
When I heard the 6/6/83 Lawler/Dundee was going to be on the Lawler DVD I felt like reading my write-up of it again, and after re-reading it I said it was the most positive write-up of a match I’ve ever done. This will be something like that. Obviously this is no best match ever contender and I wasn’t in the state of pure shock I was in when I last watched Lawler/Dundee, but awe is still awe. Why I’m really making the comparison is because, like Lawler/Dundee, in this I also found there be not a single wasted spot, and not a single wasted second. I wrote about NOC earlier and one thing I didn’t mention was McIntyre (in the tag turmoil) going back to the same stretchy hold more than once because it seemed like he wasn’t sure what else to do. This was the opposite. It was as if everything was laid out in advance and executed to perfection. Any fool reading this knows I’m into arm work and this is the best US arm work match I remember happening since Anderson/Rhodes in 92. McIntyre finds crazy Anderson ways to wreck it and Christian goes to crazy Misawa levels to sell it. You know those back-body drop things where the receiver lands on their feet? Christian was selling DURING that. He held his arm toward his body DURING that. In MID-AIR. Who the fuck does that? The attention to detail is through the roof. McIntyre takes this fucking insane bump from the outside to the apron off of a dropkick (he just jumped backward into it like a psychopath), and winds up under the ring. Christian goes to get him and McIntyre pulls his arm through the under-ring metal stuff. Christian takes a good apron bump himself and continues flopping on the floor like a fish hit with a branding iron. He sells every bit of torment with of the visual of being electrocuted. And shit, I’ve had a cousin over my house who broke her arm – the writhing in pain looked something like that. I’m sure everyone reading’s felt that kind of pain before – you just don’t know where to put yourself. Christian finds any way he can to get out of this mess, even if that includes putting his arm in more risk because he literally can’t do anything else. McIntyre spends NO spot not attacking that arm, so it’s either Christian winds up with a hurt arm and loses the match, or Christian winds up with a hurt arm and wins the match. He goes to at least some lengths to avoid that by headbutting McIntyre with the arm by his side (which was fucking awesome), but he knows he’s gotta use stuff like a DDT to really get Drew down. The inverted DDT itself was one of the many amazing individual spots of the match. McIntyre is so good at making a move look game-changing. He goes the extra mile to ragdoll his legs or flop his neck to separate himself from whoever sells these moves like they’re still in wrestling school. And duh all of his offense looks violent as fuck. We even get a great steel steps spot replayed that happened during the commercial break. When Christian’s fighting back starts really paying off McIntyre realises he’s maybe fucked around too much trying to win by count out and shit – and goes quickly to his DDT finish. Turns out he has in fact fucked around too much and Christian’s work comes full circle when the two guys are evenly trading. They even made a “jump into boot from prone-laying man” look good. Nobody makes that mess look good. Drew looked like he was jumping for the ARM so that helped. Christian wins with a roll up which sets up the rematch and oh boy Drew is going to want to tear the fuck out of a limb even more now. What’s wrong with this match? Well Christian could’ve….uh…there was this one spot where….nothing. It’s basically flawless. ADDING.

Christian v. Drew McIntye (SmackDown 8/20/10)
Given how the last match worked I’d’ve like them to have had a match the week after it, though how am I going to complain about this even existing? Plus Drew faced Rey the week after that match. Uh, yeah. And the commentators won’t shut up about the previous match and there are played videos of McIntyre destroying Matt Hardy, AND Cody Rhodes says he targeted Christian’s arm since, so this is definitely built as the follow-up. And hell yeah, it’s all about the arm. At least after Drew trips up Christian on the apron so Christian plummets face-first into the apron itself. Friggin owwww. This was after Christian quickly escapes a couple attempts from Drew to get the arm. Then he chucks Christian over the barricade, strips down two sections of padding and yanks Christian’s arm directly onto it. And that was after Christian jumped *onto* that part of the barricade. Drew presents several awesome, mention-worthy things in every good match and I love him for it. Brutal stretch in this one where he was holding Christian’s arm while it was in the ropes, then pushing Christian with his leg toward the turnbuckle. And Christian seemingly trying to do the back-body-drop-feet-landy thing again only to get chucked on his arm was magnificent. McIntyre turns nutbag bumping up to 11 and kills himself on a DDT sell. What was going through head? “I wonder if I can pierce the canvas open”? He had an amazing DDT sell in their first match I talked about (not the one above, the other one), but it was a flop/ragdoll thing. He full on spikes in this. Whackjob-level stuff. Christian doesn’t get much of chance to act electrocuted in this one but he’s always fantastic at keeping that arm by his side and struggling to get over the pain. This seemed more about narrow escapes than it did about fighting through the pain. Christian wins with another pin combination, but holy hell, what was that? It was a crucifix and McIntyre jumps backward wanting to open up the canvas with the back of his head this time. I am so depressed Christian didn’t get the full year to work his magic. His 2009 is to me a top ten WWE year of all time and he was no worse in any of this. In fact I reckon the best McIntyre/Christian (^^^that one) might beat out the best Swagger/Christian (2/24/09). ADDING.

Current list:



Spoiler: WHATTUP?



1.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/30/10)
2.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (SmackDown 2/12/10)
3.	John Cena v. Batista (Extreme Rules 4/25/10)
4.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Over the Limit 5/23/10)
5.	The Miz v. Daniel Bryan (Night of Champions 9/19/10)
6.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 8/20/10)
7.	Jack Swagger v. Rey Mysterio (SmackDown 6/11/10)
8.	Christian v. William Regal (ECW 1/19/10)
9.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/16/10)
10.	Rey Mysterio v. Jack Swagger (Money in the Bank 7/18/10)
11.	Christian v. Ezekiel Jackson (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
12.	Rey Mysterio v. Mike Knox (SuperStars 2/18/10)
13.	Christian/Kane v. William Regal/Ezekiel Jackson (ECW 1/26/10)
14.	John Cena/Edge/Chris Jericho/Bret Hart/John Morrison/R-Truth/Daniel Bryan v. The Nexus (SummerSlam 8/15/10)
15.	Shawn Michaels v. The Undertaker (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
16.	William Regal v. Evan Bourne (SuperStars 3/4/10)
17.	Chris Jericho v. Evan Bourne (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
18.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Extreme Rules 4/29/10)
19.	The Undertaker v. Rey Mysterio (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
20.	Drew McIntyre v. Kaval (SmackDown 9/10/10)
21.	Christian v. William Regal (SuperStars 1/14/10)
22.	Kofi Kingston v. Drew McIntyre (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
23.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
24.	d
25.	d







Other contenders:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I too watched the gauntlet last night and echo the thoughts on it. Really really great stuff. Ambrose/Harper was good, Bryan/Harper was fantastic, then Bryan/Ziggler happened and it was wonderful. Bryan/Harper was the bee's knees though. Bryan locking in the surfboard on Harper's massive legs was awesome on its own, then Harper's selling was even better. Love how much he used a desperation strike or throw to create space whenever he could. Whole thing was a joy. Better than Tag Team Turmoil from last month imo. Probably *** 3/4 - **** as a whole.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Willing to take a match request if i have it and it isn't online.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think my favorite part of the gauntlet was the ending of Ziggler/Bryan. Watching those two fight over a backslide pin was cool enough, but then Bryan's backslide pin turned into an opportunity for him to hit another roundhouse kick like he did earlier in the match. However, Ziggler scouted the kick and was able to avoid it, which caused Bryan to momentarily turn his back on Ziggler and opened Bryan up for the Zig Zag. Creative way to set up that ending and it shows one of my favorite things that Ziggler does in his matches, which is scouting his opponents.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Two of my favorite parts were in Bryan/Harper. When Harper elbowed out of the surfboard, he stood up and then fell right back down in pain. :lol Also late in the match he went for a discus lariat and Bryan kicked away his right arm so he swung around the other way and hit him with the left arm. Whole thing was a blast really. 

It's amazing how Smackdown can give you something like this and Tag Team Turmoil where it's something meaningful and watchable, then they have weeks where literally nothing happens of interest.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I really love that Christian/McIntyre 7/30/10 SD! Match. I'm a big big fan of great limb work in matches as well, particularly arms. You said you're two favorite arm work matches are Rhodes/Anderson 92' and Christian/McIntyre. Those are great, but here are a few more that popped into my head that are excellent as well:

Christian/Swagger ECW 2/24/09
Christian/ADR Summerslam 2013
Danielson/Black ROH New Horizons 2008 (my favorite arm work done in a match)
Bryan/Triple H WM 30 (best Hunter performance since 08', he does some awesome work)
Big Show/Triple H NYR 06' (well, technically it's hand work but same deal)
Bryan/Cena Summerslam 2013 (not sure on this one, haven't seen it in a year, seem to remember it having pretty sweet arm work on Cena's legit injured tricep)

I seem to recall Regal having a couple of amazing arm work matches, one might have been against Christian, but I'm drawing blanks here. Regal when he does that shoulder plant right into the mat and gets up selling his arm/shoulder is one of my favorite spots.

Christian has gotta be the king of selling his arm, right? I can't think of anyone who consistently does it better, and keeps it entertaining and exciting each and every time he does it. Christian could have every match revolve around someone working his arm, and as long as they were at least competent at the work over, I would watch and enjoy every single one of them.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Christian rules at selling the arm, and he's pretty great and working over an arm too.

His match with Swagger is the absolute cream of the crop for me in terms of a match worked around an arm. If I ever don't love that match, someone please shoot me.

McIntyre/Hardy matches from 09 shouldn't be slept on either. McIntyre works over the arm in at least one of those matches too and yeah, it's awesome. Always loved when he's use the metal bars under the ring to injure the arm. He used it a couple of times here and there, not so much that he overdid it, but enough to make it "his" move so to speak.

FUCK YOU WWE. McIntyre should still be with the company and should be having matches every week with the likes of Bryan and Harper and Ambrose and Rollins or visiting NXT and going up against Zayn and Steen and everyone else. Instead he's stuck in TNA and I can't bring myself around to watching that show. Cody, make sure to tell me any time McIntyre has a match worth seeing in TNA so I can at least check it out without having to watch the shows every week to find out for myself .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

And to think McIntyre was supposedly 'the chosen one'. If the whole thing w/Tiffany had never happened, we would've had WWE Champion Drew by now, I presume. Which would've been seriously awesome. But eh. His 2010 is still stuff of legends. That 7/30/2010 match w/Christian, don't agree it's better than Swagger/Christian, but it's not too far off either. Christian's arm selling is mindblowing and Drew's relentlessness had me just YES'ing.

And speaking of 2010, found a few more 'recs' for you Yeah1993, off of a weird top 50 SD matches ever on YT:
- Edge vs. Ziggler before Bragging Rights
- Bryan vs. Ziggler after BR (3rd part of a trilogy w/BR and Raw included)
- HBK vs. Rey in January
- Christian vs. Kofi in the finals of some IC Title tourney

Plus, I've heard about these Superstars ones: Rey/Kidd; Christian/Chavo & Ziggler; Goldust/Regal; and one that the WWE themselves put in their best of 2010, Jericho/Goldust. And some people nominate Edge/Christian as the best Raw match that year, so... yup.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I really love that Christian/McIntyre 7/30/10 SD! Match. I'm a big big fan of great limb work in matches as well, particularly arms. You said you're two favorite arm work matches are Rhodes/Anderson 92' and Christian/McIntyre. Those are great, but here are a few more that popped into my head that are excellent as well:
> 
> Christian/Swagger ECW 2/24/09
> Christian/ADR Summerslam 2013
> ...


Never seen Bryan/Trip, Bryan/Cena or Bryan/Black. The others are really good. Though I remember the Raw Trip/Show more than NYR. Thought it was better, too; one of both guys' best matches, probably. 

Did Rhodes/Jake Roberts from 92 have arm work? Pretty sure it did. That match is awesome, too. There have to be other great arm matches. Seems like everybody likes targeting the leg or ribs. Well I guess Rey/Noble is an arm match. After last night I'm not totally sure I'd rank it ahead of Christian/McIntyre, though.



ATF said:


> And speaking of 2010, found a few more 'recs' for you Yeah1993, off of a weird top 50 SD matches ever on YT:
> - Edge vs. Ziggler before Bragging Rights
> - Bryan vs. Ziggler after BR (3rd part of a trilogy w/BR and Raw included)
> - HBK vs. Rey in January
> ...


I remember a few of those back when they happened. Wait what the hell is a "Bragging Rights"? I assumed Survivor Series came after HIAC. Hold on I have FOUR PPVs left? Cal how do you do this watch-a-year-of-PPV shit?

Rey/Kidd is supposed to be fantastic and it's the one big Rey singles match in 2010 I've never seen. They get like 20 minutes or something. Goldust/Regal is short but ridiculously awesome. Might have to watch that next, screw it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Never seen Bryan/Trip, Bryan/Cena or Bryan/Black. The others are really good. Though I remember the Raw Trip/Show more than NYR. Thought it was better, too; one of both guys' best matches, probably.
> 
> Did Rhodes/Jake Roberts from 92 have arm work? Pretty sure it did. That match is awesome, too. There have to be other great arm matches. Seems like everybody likes targeting the leg or ribs. Well I guess Rey/Noble is an arm match. After last night I'm not totally sure I'd rank it ahead of Christian/McIntyre, though.


Man, I know you're stuck on this WWE 2010 kick but if you're a big fan of arm work in pro wrestling matches, you simply HAVE to see Bryan Danielson annihilate Tyler Black's arm in that New Horizons match. That's probably one of Danielsons top 5 matches in his entire career, so it's worth watching no matter what, but especially if you enjoy a truly nasty arm work over segment. He dials the intensity up to roughly 1000 and spends a good 10 minutes or so stomping, kicking, hammer locking, suplexing, just about any move he can think of to hurt Black's arm he does and does extremely well, and of course it all makes perfect sense since he is working towards his Cattle Mutilation submission.

Since you do have the network right now I'd also recommend making time for Bryan/Trips WM 30. I was all ready to hate that match before it even started because I thought we were going to see our standard Triple H post 2008 type performance with a whole lot of stupid meaningless spots and overly contrived highlights with cringe worthy character work. Nope, none of that happened. They had a good old fashioned pro wrestling match and Trips set his sights on Bryan's already injured shoulder/arm and went to town on it. He busted out stuff I've never ever seen him do in the ring, like a Tiger Suplex, along with this truly gnarly spot on the announce table where he drops Bryan straight down on his shoulder. He really did his job that night as the heel, and it doesn't even need to be mentioned but Bryan's selling was superb as always. 

The Bryan/Cena match at SS 2013 is probably a better match than Bryan/Trips, but I would need to watch it again to confirm that it is centered around Bryan working Cena's legit injured tricep (Cena wrestles in this big brace and he had surgery immediately after the match). Cena wrestled his ass off in that match, if any idiot still thinks Cena is a sub par worker they can watch this and learn to shut their mouth, because the "Best in the World" Daniel Bryan didn't even totally outshine him in the match. He was with him every step of the way, injured arm and all.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Cena/Bryan is sooo underrated outwith this thread, hardly ever see it mentioned I have it at ****3/4, LOVE it. I prefer it to Brock/Punk from the same show and that's an incredible match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Meh, Cena/Bryan ain't all that great imo. I'd easily put Lesnar/Punk from the same night ahead of it, and probably even Del Rio/Christian too. Still throw ***1/2 at it though.



Yeah1993 said:


> Cal how do you do this watch-a-year-of-PPV shit?


By avoiding as many matches per PPV as possible .

Need to start on my 08 rambles. Probably just gonna download the ones I don't have. Same with 09. Part of me wants to blast through them as quickly as possible so I can be done with my PPV Rambles for the decade .


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Cena/Bryan is great. Hovers around ****1/4-****1/2 for me. I'd agree that Brock/Punk from the same night is better, but only by a thin margin. Bryan/Triple H is seriously awesome, and it's probably Triple H's best non-gimmick singles match. I flipped out when he threw that first Tiger Suplex. Absolutely loved it, ****1/2, and probably my favourite Bryan match from his WWE run. Probably the last WWE match that I remember watching and being totally excited about.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

http://news.yahoo.com/mexico-lucha-libre-wrestler-dies-hit-ring-172311963.html

saw a video of it earlier. so sad


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Kenny said:


> http://news.yahoo.com/mexico-lucha-libre-wrestler-dies-hit-ring-172311963.html
> 
> saw a video of it earlier. so sad


Man I just read it on ESPN. No surprise, they framed the headline to make it seem like it was Rey's fault Perro died. Of course that's BS, anyone that's watched a Rey match knows their is no way in hell that a 619 would ever kill someone. Hell, it doesn't look like that move even hurts, Rey has it so dialed he almost always swings his feet past the guys face and only his pants connect with the guys face. 

This is really, really sad though. I hope that his family is okay, and I hope Rey doesn't blame himself.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Gauntlet match was great... although I skipped Ambrose/Stardust and Ambrose/Truth. Ambrose/Harper was good, would probably throw *** at it. Bryan/Harper was excellent (would go ***1/2 on it), Harper's selling throughout was golden and Bryan looked aggressive as fuck... and that continued into the match with Ziggler. Bryan/Ziggler is my TV MOTY so far... and really outside of Bryan/Harper nothing else is in the realm on TV, or for the year as a whole outside of the MOTY so far, Lesnar/Rollins/Cena from the Rumble.

But yeah, absolutely loved Bryan/Ziggler and I still feel like they can do so much for. The babyface vs. babyface dynamic worked so well here and while it was a big victory for Ziggler, it doesn't hurt Bryan as he had to wrestle Harper right before it. The right guy won in that scenario and the two delivered at a high level. I need to re-watch their BR 2010 match to see how it holds up/compares.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Did someone say arm work?!






Danielson can work an arm like no one's business - here he starts at the wrist, and moves up to the elbow, before finally targeting the shoulder. Love it.




Ryan193 said:


> Cena/Bryan is sooo underrated outwith this thread, hardly ever see it mentioned I have it at ****3/4, LOVE it. I prefer it to Brock/Punk from the same show and that's an incredible match.


I preferred it as well over Brock/Punk, though have both at ****1/2. Great show though - had Christian/ADR at **** too - what a good night that was to be a wrestling fan

...***1/2:lmao

ETA: Really sad about Perro - was definitely one of my most favorite luchadors I wanna wait until we find out further the cause or contributing factors, because on it's face, I can't see how it was even possible on a one-off move like that. I have zero doubts Rey is any way responsible. Very sad indeed


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I would easily put Lesnar/Punk over Bryan/Cena, although that's no knock at Bryan/Cena. Awesome match, would go ****1/4 and the #3 match of the year in a very very stacked year.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Man I just read it on ESPN. No surprise, they framed the headline to make it seem like it was Rey's fault Perro died. Of course that's BS, anyone that's watched a Rey match knows their is no way in hell that a 619 would ever kill someone. Hell, it doesn't look like that move even hurts, Rey has it so dialed he almost always swings his feet past the guys face and only his pants connect with the guys face.
> 
> This is really, really sad though. I hope that his family is okay, and I hope Rey doesn't blame himself.


He never even hit the 619, he dropkicked him onto the 2nd rope to set it up and Perro was out of it and Mysterio missed the 619. It looks like he hit the rope's wrong and snapped his neck although that's just speculation on my part.

There's talk of manslaughter charges which is ridiculous. Really feel for Rey.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Ryan193 said:


> He never even hit the 619, he dropkicked him onto the 2nd rope to set it up and Perro was out of it and Mysterio missed the 619. It looks like he hit the rope's wrong and snapped his neck although that's just speculation on my part.
> 
> There's talk of manslaughter charges which is ridiculous. Really feel for Rey.


Well then that's even MORE improbable. I haven't seen the clip and have no desire to, but I've seen 1,000 Rey Mysterio matches so I'm guessing he drop kicked Perro in the back/lower back to send him into the ropes and set him up for the 619? In that case there is an absolute 0% chance Rey is in anyway responsible and it's positively ridiculous that they would even think about pressing manslaughter charges against Rey. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say there is no way they actually do end up pressing charges, Rey's character is impeccable, they won't discover any sort of ulterior motive, they won't find any proof whatsoever that Rey's drop kick of all things had anything to do with Perro dying. It's a freaking drop kick, that move is more dangerous for the person doing it than the person receiving it, by a considerable margin.

It's tragic that Perro died, this sort of thing is absolutely awful and I feel for his entire family. But taking a tragedy and then doing everything to find a scape goat when it was nothing more than a tragic accident just makes everything 10x worse. All it will do is hurt Rey and hurt Perro's family more than they already are. And that ESPN headline still has me pissed off, it literally makes it sound like Rey was at fault for killing Perro. That's bush league news reporting.


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

Gotta love how the main event of WM is advertised third on the official TV Spot.

Actually, I'd be very excited if the matches were actually in the reverse order of what's advertised. To me, Wyatt vs Undertaker is absolutely the correct main event of the evening.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Taker doesn't even show up and yet he's the driving force for a good number of folks to give a damn come Sunday.

Says it all.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I would also take Bryan/Cena over Punk/Brock. I don't remember liking Punk/Brock that much.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

If we're still talking about arm work, I'll vouch for my boy Punk. There was a match in 2006 where a wrestler worked in Punk's already injured arm. Eventually Punk won, but after the match was when the real good stuff happened. While the ref was about to raise Punk's injured arm to signify victory, Punk retracted his arm and yelled at the referee for being a dumbass. Never have I seen such dedication to an injury.

I think I have that Bryan/Black New Horizons match at five stars. I cannot find a single flaw in that perfect match.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Unless I linked to the wrong match, that was vs. Yoshinobu Kanemaru during the ROH tour of Japan for the GHC Jr. Heavyweight Title. 

I remember :mark: when he came back to the States w/the title - was a great time.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Is it possible for people not to play doctor out of respect for the guy? If you do, there's an atrocious thread still ongoing in the Other Section for it. Thanks.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Willing to take a match request if i have it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I remember a few of those back when they happened. Wait what the hell is a "Bragging Rights"? I assumed Survivor Series came after HIAC. Hold on I have FOUR PPVs left? Cal how do you do this watch-a-year-of-PPV shit?
> 
> Rey/Kidd is supposed to be fantastic and it's the one big Rey singles match in 2010 I've never seen. They get like 20 minutes or something. Goldust/Regal is short but ridiculously awesome. Might have to watch that next, screw it.


Ah don't worry, the worst of 2010 PPV is gone already (DUD's like Over The Limit and Royal Rumble). HIAC is entertaining until AT LEAST Cena/Barrett (not sure until the Divas match); BR has some good stuff (Bryan/Ziggler, Goldust/DiBiase, Raw vs SD tag); SVS's 1st half (up until the DUD forever known as Kane/Edge) is AWESOME; and TLC is pretty fun top to bottom even if it's not stellar in quality bar Sheamus/Morrison.

And Rey/Kidd is pretty awesome indeed. One of the most shamefully forgotten gems of Superstars 2010. You need to watch it. And you also need to watch those Bryan matches w/ARM WORK. Danielson/Black is perfect. PERFECT. HHH/Bryan was Hunter's best performance since at least the Jeff Hardy stuff. And while we're at it, if you're gonna stick w/any modern day year in WWE, 2013 (the year of Cena/Bryan, which took on the dynamic of both men to perfection) has to be the ultimate choice. That year was jampacked to the full. Bryan's 2013 is BETTER than Christian's 2010. The Shield's 2013 is one of the all-time great years as well. Cesaro, Sheamus, the Rhodes Bros., Del Rio, Ziggler... all of those guys were on fire. Punk had a stellar first months, and still some awesome stuff outside of that (including the near perfect Brock match, which I do prefer over Cena/Bryan). You totally need to tell 2010 to shove it and watch this awesome shit instead.


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

Some good WCW wrestlecrap ppvs real quick? Watching Souled Out 2000 now as the beginning of 2000 is probably a good bet. Already seen them say that Jarrett was out of the main event because of a concussion...they show how it happened...Benoit jumps off cage and hits him under the ribs and right after, Tony says, "and that's how he got a concussion". Fucking joking? No cracked or broken ribs story instead?


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

obby said:


> Gotta love how the main event of WM is advertised third on the official TV Spot.
> 
> Actually, I'd be very excited if the matches were actually in the reverse order of what's advertised. To me, Wyatt vs Undertaker is absolutely the correct main event of the evening.


Throw me in the hat too. Sure, the build hasn't hit the mark largely due to Taker's absence, but I am genuinely intrigued regarding the match. Every year, I play a little game where I think of spots that I think would be cool for the Taker match, and then see what matches to reality (last year all I had right was Old School countered to the F5 and gogoplata countered into double powerbomb though it wasn't a straight double. I really wished they would've done the tombstone arm fold into the kimura lock instead of the cheesy kimura spot they did). 

This year, I don't have much, since I don't know how this one is going to play out and I'm intrigued by that. Both men 9 times out of 10 (hell even more for Taker) play the predator role, but both men are very different in their approaches at it. I would assume Bray yields that for Taker considering Take has the size advantage and is the best at the predator role all time (sorry Stan). (I see Vader in particular and Brock as more like juggernaut, mass walls their opponent must figuratively run into time and time again to knock off though that can be argued with Brock). We don't really know from a ring perspective how Taker has recovered from that severe concussion and he is going to be 50, so that is a huge wildcard. I think if the match takes the slugfest form, that could be pretty entertaining, as Bray showed us vs Sheamus in that SD match, he can certainly throw hands and keeps showing a pretty wicked uppercut/that short lariat variant. Bray may have the agility advantage, but I don't see him using it much here. *Ultimately, I see a match heavily leaning on showmanship to the crowd and mindgames with each other. I picture kind of a much extended version of Bray's match vs Goldust on SD for those of you who saw it. * Always a tricky way to pull off, but when done right, can be money. 

The spots I've got so far are obviously the visual of Bray doing the exorcist bridge while Taker sits up and they stare at each other which I think will happen, old school countered into a quick sister Abigail or if Taker can take it uranagewould be cool, Bray goes for a theatrical Sister Abigail and on the turn, Taker catches the legs and puts Bray up for a Tombstone (that'd be a cool finish). Other than that I think it'd be cool if when Taker goes for the running boot after snake eyes like always, Bray no sells snake eyes, runs to the opposite end and blasts Taker with that "cross body" thing he does before Taker gets the big boot off and I think if Taker can still break out air deadman, that would be a SICK Sister Abigail spot and a good false ten count finish. Even if this isn't a slugfest, I do hope we get an uppercut exchange at some point. Both guys sure can throw it.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

It would be pretty intelligent to have Undertaker/Wyatt in the ME so they can have their entrances in the dark. I really can not imagine an Undertaker entrance while the sun is still up


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

Unlikely to happen while sun is up. Show will start at 5(?). Those entrances will probably happen around 715 and it will be dark.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

watching bash at the beach 1998 

always liked this PPV, i think it was the first one i had on VHS too

watching spring stampede 1999 now, DDP vs Sting vs Flair vs Hogan

DDP wins the title :mark:


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Good ol DDP. Late starter? guy still at one point gets damn over with that crowd. Knows all the people and has a pretty hot wife? Still works his ass off. Randy Savage hasn't been the same and on a bad slope since his knees went bad? No problem DDP can get a hot program and good stuff out of him. Goldberg can't wrestle for shit outside of explosive and athletic showcases? Just call DDP in, he'll give Goldberg his career match. Stinger getting the shaft ever since the Wolfpack fizzled and seems like his high energy, high lifting early days are starting to catch up with him? no problem DDP can get some good matches out of him including a great match that is one of Nitro's very finest. Gets screwed in WWE? Still has an underrated, solid little feud/match with Christian come Mania time. Nearing 60? Shows at the Rumble he has better cardio than some of the boys if not half (certainly Dimwind Duck)


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

More matches revealed for Daniel Bryan's DVD/Blu-ray:

— Jamie Noble vs. Brian Danielson
Velocity • January 18, 2003

— Daniel Bryan vs. William Regal
NXT • April 13, 2010

— World Heavyweight Championship Match
Daniel Bryan vs. The Big Show
SmackDown • January 6, 2012

— 2 out of 3 Falls Match for the World Heavyweight Championship
Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan
Extreme Rules • April 29, 2012

— Gauntlet Match
Daniel Bryan vs. Jack Swagger, Antonio Cesaro and Ryback
RAW • July 22, 2013

link - http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/match-reveals-7-wwe-daniel-bryan-dvd-blu-ray/84370/


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

That Bryan/Big Show is fucking awesome.

Are they purposely writing "Brian"?

--------
Wait on the subject of arm matches again one of the Henry/Finlays is an arm match, I think. I remember b/c it has one of my favourite things ever where Finlay goes to chop Henry and Henry blocks it and b/c of Henry's beef arms Finlay acts like he snapped a bone.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well that set of matches makes the Bryan DVD look a whole lot better. The Noble match is a neat little addition, as is the Regal match. Show match rules. Sheamus match rules. Gauntlet match has that epic match with Cesaro in it.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

So I saw some DDP love on the last page and I must confess I know nothing about him apart from him stalking Taker's wife. Not one damn match I know, except for his little thing with Christian but that's it. So with that being said, would anyone like to recommend a definitive DDP list


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

After that pretty disapointing Lawler set, WWE did a good job with this Bryan DVD


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DDP love = 






:mark:


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Brock said:


> DDP love =
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Was just going to post this too.

Matches:

DDP vs Goldberg - Halloween Havoc 1998. Gets Goldberg to his best match. 

DDP vs Sting (April 1999, Nitro) - one of if not the best match in nitro history. one of my personal favourites with my favourite two going at it

DDP vs Raven Slamboree 1998

DDP Vs Scott Hall (i think from hog wild)

DDP vs Curt Hennig at Starrcade 1997 - not the greatest of matches but DDP looked good and showed what he can do

DDP/Eddie from above clip. 

DDP vs Sting vs Flair vs Hogan - not a great match but great moment with him winning the world title. 

DDP Vs Jeff Jarrett for the World Heavyweight title on Nitro 24/4/00 - botched finish, but DDP wins gold again. 

Ddp vs. Benoit vs. Raven uncensored 1998.

vs. Psychosis on Nitro in 4/97

DDP dressed as La Parka vs Randy Savage

DDP vs Randy Savage. Falls Count Anywhere Great American Bash '97 - excellent match, and a great feud

DDP vs Raven Spring Stampede 1998.

i'm a huge DDP mark


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Definitely the Savage feud. Halloween Havoc possibly being my favorite, despite the finish.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

@Hayley Seydoux 

I know you're a big :CENA mark, so I'm wondering what do you think is his top 10 best matches of his career so far? 

If anyone else wants to list some, go ahead, or maybe a list of top 10 matches from your favourite wrestler?


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

@King Kenny

*I'll take a crack at a one on one top ten Cena list in no order

Umaga LMS
HBK 1 hour classic 07
Punk MITB
Punk Raw with the piledriver
Bryan Summerslam 13
Rollins SD 2013 (I know some will think I'm smokin something for putting that there but I really did throughly enjoy that match)
Cesaro 1 Raw February 14
Brock ER 2012
If we talk quintessential Cena which is still a damn good one, Taker vs Cena Vengence 03.* Many I think don't realize how important that match was to mr. Cena. 
If we are making a master list of Cena, we gotta throw in the match v*s Khali at ONS in 2007.* Del Rio got an average match out of Khali, but I think Cena is the only one to ever get above a good match out of khali (no I don't like HHH vs Khali like some of you). One could argue just getting this feat makes outside of the Umaga LMS Cena's finest hour. 



hell just to throw ten underrated Cena matches in here, *Unforgiven 03 and NWO 2005. Both vs Angle,* for a fun sprint, *Henry vs Cena Raw 08*, *BENOIT VS CENA 07* (I capitalize that because that was a real nice short match for having prior story and I wish Cena would wrestle like that more often), *vs Barrett*, *Cena/Jericho Summerslam*, *Cena/Cesaro Raw II,* in a sense vs Michaels WM 23 (not sure if underrated is fair), h*e had a damn good one vs Big Show that I can't remember the event for* and to finish: while not a great or good match, *Randy Orton made that February Cena match in the EC build pretty fun.*


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

1. Vs Punk - MITB 2011
2. Vs Umaga - Royal Rumble 2007
3. Vs Edge - Unforgiven 2006
4. Vs Punk - Summerslam 2011
5. Vs Batista - Extreme Rules 2010
6. Vs Michaels - Raw 2007
7. Vs Batista - Summerslam 2008
8. Vs Michaels - Wrestlemania XXIII
9. Vs Batista - Wrestlemania XXVI
10. Vs RVD - ONS 2006


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

*Hell in a Cell 2001*

Hopefully I can add at least one match to the list so I only have one lowercase ‘d’ left in the top 25. I mean with four entire PPVs left I shouldn’t have any spots left. I know for sure Sheamus/Morrison from TLC is an add and there’s gotta be one other match on all of these shows. Right?

Daniel Bryan v. The Miz v. John Morrison
Thought the Miz’d be champion by now. This was submission count anywhere which is weird but could work. I really can’t tell if WWE were self-aware about the Miz or not. He’s obviously just a test to see if they can get mainstream shit; telling the fans he’s the guy instead of the fans telling them he’s the guy (like the fans have been trying with Bryan…ironic how it works). He’s got catchphrases and is winning all of this stuff but this match starts with Bryan and Morrison basically taking the piss out of him. Maybe I’m looking too deep into, I mean it was awesome when HHH and the Rock did that shit with Angle and it never made Angle look worse. But Angle wasn’t the main event of WrestleMania until he was well past that point. Anyway the three doods start in the ring and do the same three-way ‘two people at a time’ stuff. Couple cool ideas like Morrison using the tarantula, but most of it has a guy roll out of the ring just because there are already two people in it. During the tarantula itself Bryan kicks Miz in the gut and Morrison for some reason doesn’t get into the ring for a while after that. Did he fall? Didn’t look like it. Somewhere in there Bryan gets cattle mutilation on which two of the three commentators proceed to bury and the Miz buries by escaping it in one second. Yeah, great. I’m marking out. When Morrison does come back in, Bryan and the Miz are both trying to up one-another’s leglock and see Morrison plummeting toward them but do nothing about it. And, naturally, the Miz rolls out of the ring while Bryan does not. Things spill out to the outside and I finally buy somebody being knocked out after the Miz uses a Dragon Sleeper on Morrison through a steel bar. Bryan tries to break it up and keeps getting kicked down the stairs, so the Miz is forced to focus on Bryan now. Other than that I thought the entire outside-the-ring stuff kind of sucked. There were some neat ideas with the big thingy the Miz brought out but this is the type of WWE ‘brawling’ I don’t care about. It being a submission match just made it weird. Favourite part was Morrison trying to use some shitty kind of a gogoplata or triangle choke and it instead looked like he was trying to masturbate somehow. They fill their big dive quota in there. ‘this is awesome’~! Why wasn’t this a straight Bryan/Miz rematch? If Bryan’s going over clean anyway? Ah screw it. Honestly I thought this entire match was pretty lame. NOT ADDING.

Sheamus v. Randy Orton
AGAIN? I don’t get Bryan/Miz II but THIS happens again? You know who’s great? Alexander Otsuka. You know who else? Dick Murdoch. You know who else? Yoshihiro Takayama. That big fucker is one of my absolute favourite wrestlers of all time. You might wonder why I bring these names up. Well when writing about a match I just try to remember how I felt during the match, and my thoughts. I remember my thoughts during this because they were on OTHER THINGS. I thought about how good OTHER wrestling is. Because this was so dry and useless that I had no care to focus on the actual match. Oh, but it gets better. Wanna know the best part? This. Felt. Like. Three. Fucking. Hours. I think I’ve finally come up with a way to describe this kind of WWE main event (even though it was match #2 on the card); they’re like two kids playing wrestling. I’ve used that line before, but I feel differently about it here. A grandmother can watch her two grandkids wrestling and go ‘’oh, that wrestling.’’ She can tell the two kids aren’t angry at each other and are just playing. They’ll act knocked out and use foam for steel steps and copy what they saw on TV. Yeah, that. This looks like that to me. I don’t buy any of it. And these are your main events. The commentators did not help. They kept bringing up what it must be like to be with your rival in a cage for the WWE championship and I just think “it’d be nothing like this.” All that made me think was how inferior this was to other matches where two rivals are fighting, or other matches for the world’s #1 championship. Truth be told this wasn’t devoid of good things. It had a couple. But I don’t care. Not one bit. At all. You can’t spend 89 minutes doing good-for-nothing nothingness and expect me to like the 1 other minute you spend being Tully Blanchard. NOT ADDING.

I fast forward Orton’s victory stuff to see Alberto Del Rio come out and talk gibberish and then I fast forward and see Edge come to the ring and he says a funny thing and then Jack Swagger comes to the ring (I am really sure what the fuck is up with this PPV) and I fast forward and then Swagger has Edge laying on the ground holding his ribs. Michael Cole gets a message from eGM saying we are to have an impromptu Edge match.

*sigh*

Edge v. Jack Swagger
……


……

This was pretty good! I thought it would be a disaster when Edge had me laughing within seven seconds because he sold a t-shirt being thrown at him like a stomp, but, no, this was enjoyable. Edge was selling the ribs and Swagger was targeting the ribs and throwing gut busters and shit everywhere. One of the best parts was Swagger jumping over the top rope and Edge taking the advantage to give a boot to the face. He spent most of the match fighting upward, and if they had ended the match three minutes earlier it would have been much better. But hey, I had a fine time. This had some bad shit, though. A true Botchamania minute in the middle where Edge knocks over the cameraman leaving the ring, then goes to swing Swagger’s arm into the ring post but slips or something so it looks like Swagger threw it himself. Another moment of laughter hit me when the two guys didn’t agree on whether or not Swagger should be ducking an enziguri or Edge should be avoiding a Dragon Screw and they wound up in a mess. How sad is that? This had me laughing at the shittiness of something three separate times and it will probably be match of the night. I think it is *perfect* that this came after Sheamus/Orton. Just showing that I really don’t ask for much. Edge – THIS motherfucker. I don’t EVER give a shit to see this motherfucker on my TV. And yet I didn’t spend the match thinking about el Satanico or Sgt. Slaughter. This wasn’t even what I’d call a truly ‘good’ match, and it was a fun surprise for me. NOT ADDING.


John Cena v. Wade Barrett
These kinds of ‘everything is on the line’ matches can pretty much never end clean. And when they do in the case of whatever happened with the Authority last year, they immediately turn it around and go ‘nah we’re back’ because WWE is too pea-brained to come up with anything new. Match was all right. Cena doing mat stuff didn’t look too out of place and Barrett had to punch him in the face repeatedly to stop it. The rest of the Nexus run to the ring because they can still distract Cena by looking at him like Cena’s a ferret. It was cool seeing everybody run out to get rid of them. I finally saw Chris Masters and Goldust on PPV. That distracts Cena even more and even though Barrett didn’t have it in him to take advantage I still thought it was a little uncomfortable. Rest of the match has some big kind of stuff and they both get to kick out of finishers but not so much so that it’s silly. Matt Striker trying way too hard to play devil’s advocate was annoying as fuck. Ending was whatever. Cool how they made it look like an actual fan just ran into the ring, though, looking like a boring human being with jeans and shit. NOT ADDING.

Michelle McCool v. Natalya
Another OK match. Natty takes a couple intense bumps on the outside and they spend most of the match around her mid and then on sharpshooter stuff. Layla gets McCool disqualified because she thought it was a brilliant idea to throw her shoes in the ring. Mat Striker makes a “heel” joke. Ugh. NOT ADDING.

Kane v. The Undertaker
Could have been the kind of shitty Sheamus/Orton wrestling I deeply despise but Taker isn’t one to be susceptible to that kind of thing. He has just about the most ridiculous, non-believable gimmick attached to him but he comes off as really genuine during matches. Kane targeting leg was not expected and it presented a bunch of neat ways to escape stuff like swinging his arm into it to avoid a last ride. Taker’s forced to sell a limb and he’s been great it for a while. Favourite part was Kane rolling out of the ring coughing after the hell’s gate that Taker had to use to even things up, and then coming back and both guys laying each other out with a BOOT. The Bearer turn was expected and it was kind of cool how he got in there by Kane causing shit because he punched a referee out in frustration. The actual ‘turn’ was poor. They put the lights all blue and shit with lightning effects on the monitors so when Bearer flashed the urn in Taker’s face nobody even knew what happened. Then he just hands the urn to Kane like ‘here ya go, roomie.’ Theme of this show seemed to be matches that aren’t particularly good or bad. NOT ADDING.

Overall thoughts: Not good. We were SO close. We had TWO passable shows back to back. I don’t know or want to know a single match on the BR card until I watch it but I hope it has SOMETHING. Hell on these next three shows I don’t remember any match other than the Sheamus TLC. Pretty exciting not knowing what’s ahead. Always winds up being some crappy Orton shit. Blehhhhh.


Current list:



Spoiler: WHATTUP?



1.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/30/10)
2.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (SmackDown 2/12/10)
3.	John Cena v. Batista (Extreme Rules 4/25/10)
4.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Over the Limit 5/23/10)
5.	The Miz v. Daniel Bryan (Night of Champions 9/19/10)
6.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 8/20/10)
7.	Jack Swagger v. Rey Mysterio (SmackDown 6/11/10)
8.	Christian v. William Regal (ECW 1/19/10)
9.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/16/10)
10.	Rey Mysterio v. Jack Swagger (Money in the Bank 7/18/10)
11.	Christian v. Ezekiel Jackson (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
12.	Rey Mysterio v. Mike Knox (SuperStars 2/18/10)
13.	Christian/Kane v. William Regal/Ezekiel Jackson (ECW 1/26/10)
14.	John Cena/Edge/Chris Jericho/Bret Hart/John Morrison/R-Truth/Daniel Bryan v. The Nexus (SummerSlam 8/15/10)
15.	Shawn Michaels v. The Undertaker (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
16.	William Regal v. Evan Bourne (SuperStars 3/4/10)
17.	Chris Jericho v. Evan Bourne (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
18.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Extreme Rules 4/29/10)
19.	The Undertaker v. Rey Mysterio (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
20.	Drew McIntyre v. Kaval (SmackDown 9/10/10)
21.	Christian v. William Regal (SuperStars 1/14/10)
22.	Kofi Kingston v. Drew McIntyre (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
23.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
24.	d
25.	d







Other contenders:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

A couple more DDP matches to check out would be his series with Johnny B. Badd in the mid '90s. Specifically World War III '95 and Superbrawl '96 (as they're the only ones I can remember seeing). I think they may have had a match at Fall Brawl too.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Kinda surprised that Yeah1993 didn't like Cena/Barrett considering that the format of the match was akin to the typical Cena match which is a favorite of people like him. I kinda liked Sheamus/Orton the last time I watched it, but Yeah does hit a good point about how matches like that do feel lifeless and uninspiring. I'm shocked that he didn't comment on the Irish Curse on the steel steps spot :lol. Get ready for a MOTYC at Bragging Rights.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I hate Matt Striker's commentary 'til the end of my days but he tries to save grace on stuff like the backbreaker on the steps. At least attempt to make it sound like there's a reason for it. I obv thought the move was ridiculous. 

I wasn't really here nor there on Cena/Barrett, but it was definitely leaning toward good more than not-so-good.. Thought it was MOTN, at least.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

DDP/Benoit at _SuperBrawl VIII_ is must-see. I'd go with _Spring Stampede '97_ as the best match of his legendary Savage feud. His tag title matches as part of the Triad in '99 were pretty awesome as well.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm also surprised you didn't add Cena/Barrett to list. Thought that was gonna be a lock given it's "typical Cena" with the twist that the finisher kick-outs actually meant something. Really liked that match myself.

Bragging Rights has, like ff says, a MOTYC in it so you don't need to worry about not getting shit. Shame that at least one of the bigger matches of the night is too awful to even care. And I'm a big fan of one of the guys present there (one of the few here tbh).

But, trying to not spoil anything, Survivor Series(' 1st half - 2nd is horrible) is the one to really look forward to. TLC is fun too.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

My favorite Cena matches:

1. Vs Punk MitB 2011
2. Vs Brock ER 2012
3. Vs HBK Raw 2007
4. Vs Punk NoC 2012
5. Vs Punk Raw Feb. 2013
6. Vs Daniel Bryan SS 2013
7. Vs Angle No Mercy 2003
8. Vs Undertaker Vengeance 2003
9. Vs Umaga Royal Rumble 2007
10. Vs Eddie Latino Heat Parking Lot Brawl SD! 2003

Not to mention his excellent matches with Henry at MitB 2013, Batista at ER 2010, Orton at NWO 08', Cesaro on Raw Feb. 2014, that NWO 2007 main event tag, as well as a slew of others. When Cena is on, man he is so good I very greatful he worked as hard as he did at improving in the ring from his debut in 2002 because he's one of the better main event talents from an in ring stand point that WWE has ever had.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

One match of Cena's that I don't think that receives enough love is the one against Triple H from Night of Champions 2008. I gave it a **** rating after my last rewatch, a pretty underrated bout of both guys


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Good to see Cena/Cesaro 2 get some love on the last page, really underrated.

Cena/Bryan from Raw in 2012(?) is another gem, really really good.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Here's my Cena top 10, since we're doing that:

1. vs. C.M. Punk, _Money in the Bank 2011_
2. vs. Daniel Bryan, _SummerSlam '13_
3. vs. Brock Lesnar, _Extreme Rules 2012_
4. vs. Umaga, _Royal Rumble '07_
5. vs. C.M. Punk, Raw 2/25/13
6. vs. Shawn Michaels, Raw 4/23/07
7. vs. Edge, _Unforgiven 2006_
8. vs. Antonio Cesaro, Raw 2/17/14
9. vs. Batista, _SummerSlam '08_
10. vs. Seth Rollins, SmackDown 12/27/13


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Barrett/Cena Hell in a Cell was excellent. Used to be one of Barrett's two best matches, but now it might just make the top 5. Barrett was on a roll last year and have a number of good-great matches, even giving Reigns one of his best matches to that point, gave RVD one of his best matches during that run of his, and two arguable top 10 TV matches with Sheamus in April on Raw and Ziggler in June right before he got injured. Shame he hasn't been able to get on that kind of roll since his return, although he hasn't regressed to being pretty bad like he was in 2010.


Cena top 10? I'd have to check my list at home but off the top the Umaga LMS, HBK Raw 2007, WM23, Edge LMS, Punk MITB 2011, Bryan SS 2013, and Brock ER 2012 would most definitely all be on there. Cena is very inconsistent but when he actually tries, he can be great. Hell, matches like the Barrett HIAC match and the Sandow WHC match are proof of that. Granted, I think Sandow is a very capable, maybe a bit too average, of a worker but if Cena was as bad as some believe, no way those matches would've been great. That Sandow match he sold the fuck out of his arm, now if only he'd do that more often (sell).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I was hoping they could include some of Lawler's USWA stuff from '93 on his new DVD set, but
i guess they don't have the rights. Shame as the feuds with Savage and Hart were great.

Anyway, ive uploaded promos and the match (sadly only available in JIP form), from the
USWA feud with Randy Savage:

*Randy Savage Music Video (USWA 03.06.1993)*
x2kcmbr

*Randy Savage + Jerry Lawler (USWA 03.06.1993)*
x2kcnfg

*Randy Savage Interview (USWA on WMC-5 04.03.1993)*
x2kct8c

*Randy Savage Promo/Jerry Lawler + Sensational Sherri (USWA on WMC-5 04.17.1993)*
x2kcub2

*Jerry Lawler vs Randy Savage (Cage Match) (JIP) (USWA 04.19.1993)*
x2kcwdr

Enjoy.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cena vs. Bryan may legitimately be my #1 if I could ever assemble a true top 10 list for Cena. I have that fantastic contest at **** 3/4 but it's still behind the godsend that was Punk/Brock. That's a perfect match, fellas. What a god damn good PPV Summerslam '13 was.

Wanna hear something crazy? I haven't seen Cena/Punk MITB since it aired. 

I guarantee I'm the only person that would have 3 matches between Cena & Michaels in my top 10. Wrestlemania 23 and the RAW hour long match are both **** 1/4+ and the one that everyone always forgets about is RAW January 12, 2009 with JBL at ringside. That's also **** 1/4 and has an incredible character performance from Michaels. Highly recommend checking it out if you haven't seen it. Those two had amazing chemistry.

Basically, my list would consist of a lot of Shawn Michaels & CM Punk.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

"Cena can't wrestle" is one of the most ridiculous statements ever in wrestling. Yes, he can be formulaic and lazy, but in big time occasions, few lace his boots. In his prime year, he got good stuff out of Khali for Christ sake.

As for his top 10 matches:
1) vs Punk, MITB 2011
2) vs Lesnar, ER 2012
3) vs Punk, Raw 2013
4) vs Umaga, RR 2007
5) vs HBK, Raw 2007
6) vs Bryan, SS 2013
7) vs Batista, ER 2010
8) vs Cesaro, Raw 2014
9) vs Punk, NOC 2012
10) vs Jericho, SVS 2008

@Yeah1993, you doin BR anytime soon?


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

Wow, I can't believe I forgot to include his Last Man Standing against Edge on my list.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Top ten Cena matches:

vs. Punk MITB 2011
vs. Punk RAW 2/25/13
vs. Michaels RAW 4/23/07
vs. Bryan Summerslam 2013
vs. Punk Summerslam 2011
vs. Lesnar Extreme Rules 2012
vs. Punk Night of Champions 2012
vs. Jericho Survivor Series 2008
vs. Angle No Mercy 2003
vs. Umaga Royal Rumble 2007

Very strong top ten with lots of other candidates that would fit right into this list. Pretty clear that Cena's bread and butter is wrestling in so-called "enemy territory" or working with a smark favorite.


Is it bad that I don't see the big deal between Lawler/Savage matches? The cage matches they had together were pretty good, but there's this one match I remember them having that pissed me off so much. I think it was a Loser Leaves Town match where Savage initially won the match, but then Lawler requested a rematch immediately like he was The Rock at Royal Rumble 2013 and hulked up and won. Terrible, terrible match that exemplifies everything I hate about wrestling.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

More importantly, did Yeah1993 watch WWE Superstars 26/08/2010? It has Goldust/Regal and McIntyre/Masters; both of which are really good.






HD, because Regal deserves only the best.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Why can't Superstars give us matches like that anymore? It's not like they don't have guys who aren't capable of putting together quality matches. Instead, it usually features Adam Rose vs. Fandango or two jobber tag teams going at in a 5 minute match. 

Full content released for the Daniel Bryan dvd: http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/full-content-wwe-daniel-bryan-just-say-yes-dvd-blu-ray/83199/

I guess it looks solid as a whole because there's a few really great matches on there, but Disc One is like a one hour documentary. You couldn't put something else on there? Ugh. Blu ray exclusives don't give me much incentive to buy it either. Oh well.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Fighter Daron said:


> Wow, I can't believe I forgot to include his Last Man Standing against Edge on my list.


You have a Mark Henry sig, so you're automatically on my good side, but man words can't express my distaste for Edge/Cena LMS Backlash 09'. That one match encapsulates most of the things I detest about WWE's main event "style". Complete lack of cohesive and sensical selling? Check. Spamming a 10 count? Check. Trading big moves/finishers for numerous false finishes? Check. Overly contrived spots? Check. I could go on, but really I just do not like that match. I'm not saying I'm right and anyone who likes it is wrong, it's just not my style.

One thing I hate about the evolution of the LMS match is how the red starts counting every single damn time one person is laying on the mat. It's stupid. Go back and watch the first 2 LMS matches WWE had, Rock/Mankind and Trips/Jericho. Those are the 2 best matches this gimmick has ever produced, and the reason for that was twofold. One, the talent involved was amazing and they just knew exactly how to keep the fans hooked and tell a great story. Two. The refs didn't spam the 10 count. They need to make it so that when only 1 guys is down, the ref only starts counting if the guy standing tells him to. And if the guy tells him to count, he needs to go stand in the neutral corner. That way you don't have to stand there for a 5 count after a back body drop. The wrestler dishing the punishment can keep on dishing it out until he thinks his opponent is good and ready to be counted out.

A LMS match should essentially be work very similarly to a No DQ match, except the wrestlers involved should focus their attack on things that will keep their opponent from answering the 10 count, ie attack the head or the legs. Really, they can do what they want just make it sensible and for God sakes don't work the match as a series of contrived high spots spaced around endless 8-9 counts. I hate that.



Rah said:


> More importantly, did Yeah1993 watch WWE Superstars 26/08/2010? It has Goldust/Regal and McIntyre/Masters; both of which are really good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Jack Evans 187 said:


> Why can't Superstars give us matches like that anymore? It's not like they don't have guys who aren't capable of putting together quality matches. Instead, it usually features Adam Rose vs. Fandango or two jobber tag teams going at in a 5 minute match.
> 
> Full content released for the Daniel Bryan dvd: http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/full-content-wwe-daniel-bryan-just-say-yes-dvd-blu-ray/83199/
> 
> I guess it looks solid as a whole because there's a few really great matches on there, but Disc One is like a one hour documentary. You couldn't put something else on there? Ugh. Blu ray exclusives don't give me much incentive to buy it either. Oh well.


Man I totally agree. Superstars airs once a week for 1 hour and has a limited audience. It should be the perfect ground for doing things different and experimenting. Roman needs to hone his craft in the ring and gain confidence, throw him in the ring for a Superstars match against Cesaro and give them at least 20 minutes. If he does well and it's a good match, great, word will get around and people will watch it. If it isn't good, well no harm done very few people saw it and nothing that happens on Superstars has any effect on Raw.

They should book Superstars as a testing ground for talent and matches. It's better than a house show because you have cameras around and a TV audience, but it's not so well followed that you need to worry about having a bad show or making someone look bad. Book a 60 minute draw between Ziggler and Bryan. Book a 30 minute Ironman between Dean Ambrose and Cesaro. Let Sami Sayn come up from NXT and work for 15-20 minutes against Luke Harper. Who cares? Do what you want, just throw guys out there and put them in a spot to have great matches and get better at what they do. No harm will come from it, but for God sakes don't book Xaiver Woods in a 4 minute squash against Curtis Axel. Wtf does that do? No one wants to see that, no one benefits from that, no one cares. Hey, and maybe, just maybe, if you start throwing talented workers out there and let them have time to work kick ass matches, you MIGHT get more fans showing up for Superstars tapings. You MIGHT get something truly special that is beneficial to someone's career. The state of Superstars is totally indicative of the current state of the WWE. No one cares, no one is doing anything, they are just throwing crap out there without any thought going into it and collect their checks from the networks who pay for their content. So, so dumb.

Just treat Superstars like a souped up version of a House Show. If you book some of your guys in a long grueling match on Superstars, we'll give them one house show date off to rest. And now you have good content from the match these guys had that people might actually be interested in seeing it! Amazing!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I think you went a _little_ overboard with those match selections, but I get what you're trying to say.  I'm thinking more along the lines of what Main Event USED to be, just a place where you can have your midcarders go out and deliver quality matches worth watching. Cesaro vs. Sin Cara is the best example of what I'd like to see on those two shows every week. Take what you have and use it as best as you can. Harper vs. Rowan, Swagger vs. Tyson Kidd, Stardust vs. Dean Ambrose, Cesaro vs. Ziggler, etc etc. All of them are capable of quality matches.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Isn't Superstars only around because of international television contract obligations? It is a shame to see where it's gone. 2010 and 2011 had a lot of hidden gems with guys like McIntyre, Ziggler, Masters, Kidd, and Ryder putting on some fun matches. Starting in 2012, the show became pathetic. I did find a few matches from 2013 that were pretty good, but Superstars and Main Event for that matter are absolute jokes at the moment.






Cue the holy shit chants.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Re: Official Match/DVD/DEATHDEATHDEATHDEATH Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues & Bobby Eaton*

Fuck's up w/the DEATHDEATHDEATH thing?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

As a moderator of this forum, I can inform everyone that the word show has been replaced with DEATHDEATHDEATH because...

I have no idea. Nobody tells me anything. I'm the mod of the video games section. Even I forget I have "powers" on here :lmao.

Forgot to update my BLOG~! yesterday with a ramble. So I just posted it. GAB 06. Even I forgot what I'd done for the main event :lmao.

EDIT: OH OF FUCKING COURSE IT GETS FIXED WHEN I POST.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

will you review the 10s PPVs as well or are you going to wait until 2025?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I have no intentions of doing any more once I finish 2009, except for RR, WM, SS and SVS (will be rambling on all the older SS and SVS shows after I finish 09). I don't think I could ever sit through a full year of PPV's after 2009 lol.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

ATF said:


> @Yeah1993, you doin BR anytime soon?


Gonna try. Want to do as much as possible until March ends (cancelling my network sub)



Rah said:


> More importantly, did Yeah1993 watch WWE Superstars 26/08/2010? It has Goldust/Regal and McIntyre/Masters; both of which are really good.


Oh yeah I'm pumped as fuck for seeing those again. Superstars and SD is why I did this list. Foolishly promised to watch every PPV in full which I don't think I can ever do again for a different year. Unless it's like 97 or something.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Isn't Superstars only around because of international television contract obligations? It is a shame to see where it's gone. 2010 and 2011 had a lot of hidden gems with guys like McIntyre, Ziggler, Masters, Kidd, and Ryder putting on some fun matches. Starting in 2012, the show became pathetic. I did find a few matches from 2013 that were pretty good, but Superstars and Main Event for that matter are absolute jokes at the moment.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fucking wildest thing I've ever seen in wresting. When the flames ignited it was a pure spectacle. 

What's everyone here thoughts on Carlos Colon and Puerto Rico on the whole? I'll be honest, I find it boring. I know at one point WWC was hot but there's just something about the punch, kick, grab a hold for minutes that just bores. Being from the Caribbean myself, people watch me funny when I say I find Puerto Rican wrestling from the 80s and 90s boring but I just can't get into it. Quite frankly, there isn't much old school wrestling I find enjoyable outside of Flair, Steamboat, Tully, Kerry and the usual bunch.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Fucking wildest thing I've ever seen in wresting. When the flames ignited it was a pure spectacle.
> 
> What's everyone here thoughts on Carlos Colon and Puerto Rico on the whole? I'll be honest, I find it boring. I know at one point WWC was hot but there's just something about the punch, kick, grab a hold for minutes that just bores. Being from the Caribbean myself, people watch me funny when I say I find Puerto Rican wrestling from the 80s and 90s boring but I just can't get into it. Quite frankly, there isn't much old school wrestling I find enjoyable outside of Flair, Steamboat, Tully, Kerry and the usual bunch.


I've been using PWO as a guide to get into WWC from the 80s and 90s. Admittedly, I already had an inherent bias against Carlos Colon because of his role in refusing to help authorities with regards to the murder of Bruiser Brody. What I have seen of him has been fairly good for the most part, with the Stan Hansen series being very good. However, he's another one of those legendary babyfaces that I just can't get into (a la Jerry Lawler, Hulk Hogan, Dusty Rhodes) because nothing about them feels sympathetic. I also get that feeling of boredom from a lot of the other stuff I have seen from Puerto Rico. A good brawl doesn't have to be fast paced, but too often do wrestlers move like molasses and the matches stop feeling like brawls and more like old people fighting in a retirement home. 

I can kinda see what you're saying about old school wrestling although I still love a lot of stuff from the 80s and 90s. There does feel like a blatant bias as well among some wrestling fans where they look past the flaws of stuff from the past because it's been ingrained in all of our heads that things from the past are better than the present. And that's not just in wrestling; it exists in all forms of entertainment.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Full Content for Daniel Bryan's DVD/Blu-ray:

Disc 1:
“Journey to WrestleMania” Documentary:

The Journey Begins
Chasing The Dream
Shawn Michaels
Independent Scene
Remaining Humble
NXT
The Nexus
Press Conference
WrestleMania XXVII
The History of Yes!
WrestleMania XXVIII
Daniel Bryan: WWE Superstar
The Yes Movement
Kickboxing
Media Frenzy
Training for WrestleMania
Triple H
Occupy Raw
The Movement Grows Stronger
Brie
WrestleMania Axxess
Hall of Fame
WrestleMania XXX
Daniel Bryan vs. Triple H
Triple Threat Match
Champion
Reaching Your Dream

Disc 2:

Power of Yes

Tryout

American Dragon & Shooter Schultz vs. Brian Kendrik & Lance Cade
Austin, TX [SmackDown Taping] • February 8, 2000

Extra List

Jamie Noble vs. Brian Danielson
Velocity • January 18, 2003

Getting Signed

Daniel Bryan vs. Chris Jericho
NXT • February 23, 2010

Borderline Insulting

United States Championship Match
The Miz vs. Daniel Bryan
Night of Champions • September 19, 2010

Money in the Bank Winner

World Heavyweight Championship Match
The Big Show vs. Daniel Bryan
TLC • December 18, 2011

Champion

World Heavyweight Championship Match
Daniel Bryan vs. The Big Show
SmackDown • January 6, 2012

Redemption Match

2 out of 3 Falls Match for the World Heavyweight Championship
Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan
Extreme Rules • April 29, 2012

Anarchist

No Disqualification Match for the WWE Championship
CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan
Special Guest Referee: AJ Lee
Money in the Bank • July 15, 2012

Team Hell No

WWE Tag Team Championship Match
Kofi Kingston & R-Truth vs. Daniel Bryan & Kane
Night of Champions • September 16, 2012

Disc 3:

B-Plus Player

Gauntlet Match
Daniel Bryan vs. Jack Swagger, Antonio Cesaro and Ryback
RAW • July 22, 2013

SummerSlam Main Event

WWE Championship Match
John Cena vs. Daniel Bryan
Special Guest Referee: Triple H
SummerSlam • August 18, 2013

Great Moment / Short Reign

No Disqualification Match
Daniel Bryan vs. Randy Orton
RAW • March 17, 2014

The YES Movement

Triple Threat Match for the WWE World Heavyweight Championship
Randy Orton vs. Batista vs. Daniel Bryan
WrestleMania XXX • April 6, 2014

Victory, Injury, & Recovery

Daniel Bryan’s Big Announcement
RAW • December 29, 2014

What’s Next??

Winner Will Face Brock Lesnar At WrestleMania For The WWE World Heavyweight Championship
Daniel Bryan vs. Roman Reigns
FastLane • February 22, 2015

Blu-ray Exclusives:

He Gave Me A Lot

John Cena vs. Brian Danielson
Velocity • February 8, 2003

Mentor

Daniel Bryan vs. William Regal
NXT • April 13, 2010

Brie

Daniel Bryan & Brie Bella vs. Ted DiBiase & Maryse
RAW • December 6, 2010

Daniel Bryan and Kane Attend Anger Management
RAW • August 2012

The Wyatt Family’s Newest Member

Steel Cage Tag Team Match
The Usos vs. Bray Wyatt & Daniel Bryan
RAW • January 13, 2014

Stories:

School of Wrestling
Just A Dude
Memphis Developmental
King of the Indy’s
Stigma
Charisma
NXT Troubles
Fired
Yes / No ?
The Proposal
Giant YES!
Book of Yes
The Beard

link - http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/full-content-wwe-daniel-bryan-just-say-yes-dvd-blu-ray/83199/


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Oh yeah I'm pumped as fuck for seeing those again. Superstars and SD is why I did this list. Foolishly promised to watch every PPV in full which I don't think I can ever do again for a different year. Unless it's like 97 or something.


I know we've talked about both those matches before. Back when I did a rundown of Superstars (iirc my list is p. trashy now b/c I didn't even include Archer vs Gallows despite loving it.) Regal vs Goldust having like three matches that year, but that show w/Masters vs McIntyre is when it was the greatest. I forget what the middle match was - I think Archer/Hawkins vs Dudebusters - and that was p. fun too. One of the best overall episodes of Superstars from the year. If not "the" best.

Masters vs McIntyre from 2011 gets slept on, but it is just as great as their 2010 match, I'd say.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I think you went a _little_ overboard with those match selections, but I get what you're trying to say.  I'm thinking more along the lines of what Main Event USED to be, just a place where you can have your midcarders go out and deliver quality matches worth watching. Cesaro vs. Sin Cara is the best example of what I'd like to see on those two shows every week. Take what you have and use it as best as you can. Harper vs. Rowan, Swagger vs. Tyson Kidd, Stardust vs. Dean Ambrose, Cesaro vs. Ziggler, etc etc. All of them are capable of quality matches.


What I was trying to do with those match selections was say WWE should use Superstars to test things out. We haven't seen a 60 minute match in years, I'm sure Kevin Dunn or someone convinced Vince that WWE fans have way too short an attention span to watch and stay engaged for a 60 minute match. So you book one on Superstars and see the response you get. If you have the fans standing and cheering all the way to the finish, you know you got something. If you get crickets after 20-30 minutes, you know not to book that in the future. Maybe I'm really old school, but I think having a really long match every once in a while can be a really powerful storytelling device, especially if you end it in a draw. That's the other thing I was saying to test out, draws don't occur anymore ostensibly because fans want a winner and a loser. Except WWE doesn't even do that, they do screw finishes all the time that benefit no one and send the fans home unhappy. Why not test out time limit draws on Superstars and see how it goes? See how the fans respond to a 10 or 15 minute time limit draw. You'll have to get in the habit of having the announcer announce the time limit before matches again, but I think it could work.

Maybe I'm 100% wrong here, but I'd prefer a time limit draw to the finish we got at Battleground 2013. The DQ should also be a good story telling device, but WWE does so many of them that they have lost all meaning.

It's common knowledge that TV audiences are different than house show audiences. I was merely suggesting that Superstars be used like a test tube for matches and feuds. Do a short preview of an Ambrose/Harper feud, give them like a 10 minute time limit draw. If the fans are into it, and into the wrestlers, then you know you have a potential feud for Raw and SD so you transfer that over. Same deal with young talent who don't get a chance to really wrestle for more than 5 minutes or so on Raw or SD. Let them go for 15 minutes and see if the fans respond.

Of course, WWE used to do something like what I was saying but it didn't matter. They didn't care that guys like Masters and McIntyre were having really good matches on Superstars, they released them anyway.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Masters vs McIntyre from 2011 gets slept on, but it is just as great as their 2010 match, I'd say.


Honestly I thought it was twice as good as the 2010 match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Dolph Ziggler just beat Daniel Bryan as clean as can be for the 2nd week in a row... wow. That's crazy.

That ending to RAW tonight. :lmao


----------



## TheRockfan7 (Feb 3, 2011)

Lesnar just let Roman HOLD HIS BELT? What the fuck is that shit????


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Was "all hands on deck" for that ending :lmao

This RTWM has been bad. And everyone ought to know by now that I try my best to have a really positive outlook on WWE but NOTHING can save them right now.

Thank God I have a new-found love for NJPW and I've rekindled my relationship with the indies. Otherwise, I'd have no interest in pro wrestling. I feel really bad for fans who only watch WWE. If only they knew what they're missing out on.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Even the modern apologist in me acknowledges how terrible that buildup to Mania was :lmao


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

The one time Wrestlemania is in my hometown and it's this crap lol


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

It is hard to fathom that a man with over forty years of history in the business and some connection and certainly access to damn near everything since 1982 a week before Mania 2015 (2015 not 1986!) greenlit what I just witnessed on my television. Hell, it is hard to compute what Orton and arguably Rollins aside has come on for at least the last month.We just witnessed a wrestling episode in 2015 where Snoop Dogg, who must follow the Gandhi weightlifting regiment and most importantly LITERALLY peaked in 1992 which predates Toy Story 1, Barry Bonds to the Giants, the Diesel character that is entering the HOF and matches BRETT FAVRE's FIRST YEAR WITH MY PACKERS, yet this man was booked to have more physicality than a generational athlete in Brock Lesnar who will be maineventing wrestlemania. Heck, moving beyond this woat contending Mania main event debacle, the only two matches with animosity between characters leading into Mania are Rusev/Cena and Orton/Rollins, and Orton/Rollins while it was great had some of the wind taken out of the sail with that expansive beatdown and Rusev/Cena is relying on patriotism. 

I admit I am usually real easygoing in judging this product and through my years like to "wait to see what happens", but this goes beyond my thoughts of "well they are just saving their cards to make their hands at 32". That was beyond pathetic and one would literally have to go out of their way to produce something that abysmal. I'm not angry at all, I'm just pointing this out because in a sadistic sense, it really is remarkable. That wasn't the worst raw of all time or anything and yeah I went overboard to prove my point, but that was ugly and pretty damn hard to sit through. It was hard to even enjoy that well delivered Wyatt promo because of that lightning sound that flashed me back to the horrific Undertaker/Kane vegitative state story.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The build has been hit or miss for sure, but come Sunday I still have a feeling we're in for a great show. It's still Wrestlemania guys! 

Orton vs. Rollins and the Ladder match should both be awesome. HHH vs. Sting could be great if they made it No Holds Barred. The other three (Cena/Rusev, Taker/Wyatt, Lesnar/Reigns) all have potential to be spectacular or giant flops, so there's that too.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> The build has been hit or miss for sure, but come Sunday I still have a feeling we're in for a great show. It's still Wrestlemania guys!
> 
> Orton vs. Rollins and the Ladder match should both be awesome. HHH vs. Sting could be great if they made it No Holds Barred. The other three (Cena/Rusev, Taker/Wyatt, Lesnar/Reigns) all have potential to be spectacular or giant flops, so there's that too.


I share your same sentiments in regards to the matches Jack, I have alot of intrigue there: I imensley look forward to seeing the unknowns of Wyatt/Taker as I outlined in an earlier post here, Stinger/HHH could be an old school, psychology heavy bout that no matter how bad will still ahve an atmosphere since it is Stinger's first match, and as Stinger on rare occasion has shown in the last decade ie: vs Angle especially and vs Aries, a Sting that is motivated can still go. Brock/Reigns could be a horrid trainwreck or a unique slugfest, Orton/Rollins has strong MOTN potential, the aldder match should be a fun car crash and it is the SB of US wrestling, so there is always a day of/weekend of hype there for me as a passionate wrestling fan even in lean times, but I am just pointing out how out of the way we as fans have to go to care this year and how abysmal wwe has been in building it that goes beyond "saving the aces for 32".

BTW, I feel quite sorry for Reigns. Too much too soon, scarcity in vets to further him in singles pyschology or the wwe style, booking that in this age is going to kill him, etc. Reigns may seem to have an attitude and doesn't seem to be improving much but nobody deserves this collection of shit for a guy who has an opportunity that one would have to nuts to turn down and could be ousted for doing so.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Honestly I thought it was twice as good as the 2010 match.


Hey, even better. :mark:

-----------

Found out Hulu today has a bunch of WWECW on there. I watched some; mostly to check out the Hardy vs Finlay vs Morrison vs Miz four way I always remember liking a lot, but haven't seen since the air date. Damn. It's still really awesome. Totally knew how to utilize the four way environment to making things feel urgent, gritty, & would find any avenue to win. Didn't have those awful portions where people lie outside for no reason b/c there only needs to be two guys in the ring at a time. Most of the usual tropes that make multiman matches in WWE pure garbage were nixed. One of the few times this type of match ruled.

Also saw fun Evan Bourne showcase match. I can always do w/seeing plenty of those.


----------



## Paul Rudd (Oct 23, 2010)

^Yeah I totally forgot how good Bourne is/was; it's such a shame they let him go. I'd take him over Neville tbh.


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

:lmao at Hulu having it while the network doesn't.

I could have watched Christian's entire godly run in 2009. Damn my canadian heritage.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I said the same thing too, obby :lmao

plz don't tell me you missed Christian's time as god on ECW. The internet was p. funny back then. "He should be on RAW or Smackdown!" Meanwhile he was designed to RULE ECW. Oh, some fans. They miss the bigger picture.

As for Bourne/Sydal or Neville/PAC, I can't say I have a preference. Anytime I see em I'm usually very pleased w/the results. While in WWE, Bourne was the better suited underdog. Which is me stating I'm glad PAC hasn't always been meant to fight from below. He's a high flyer, but dude is jacked. Glad he dominated for a long time.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

At this point, I'd actually welcome Bryan leaving WWE and heading to NJPW. Bryan in main event feuds against Nakamura, Okada, Tanahashi, Styles, Ishii, Ibushi, Naito, Honma, and especially Suzuki is something I would kill to see. If WWE is just going to keep sending him down the food chain until he ends up in another tag team or something, then NJPW would be my preference. Hell, what am I saying, if Brock actually leaves, there won't be 1 single dream matchup for Bryan left in the WWE. I'd love to see him feud with Cesaro, Harper, Ambrose, Rollins, and Rusev, but I've already seen most of those matches already. NJPW has no less than 10 guys who haven't had a match with Bryan who I'd absolutely LOVE to see him wrestle. 

To be clear, Im not just saying this since Bryan lost to Ziggler. Wins and losses don't mean everything, hell Mick Foley had one hell of a career and he lost the vast majority of his big matches. I'm only saying it because it's become pretty clear Bryan doesn't factor into their plans as one of their main guys for the future and he's too good to end up in another tag team when WWE has made their tag team division mean absolutely dick.

I can't believe its time for WM 31 already. Seems like just a little while ago I was here on this thread with everyone saying how disappointed we were in the build for WM 30. Maybe there is a lesson in there, as that show far exceeded any and all expectations I had for it. It wasn't one of the best Manias ever, not even close, but it was pretty entertaining throughout and Cena/Bray, Bryan/Hunter, and Bryan/Orton/Batista all delivered. Right now, seeing Undertaker is about the only thing that has me really excited for this years show. I have confidence Bray is going to be at his very best, this is a dream for him, getting to face Taker at Mania, he will be as highly motivated as he can possibly be, and Taker will keep him going at the perfect pace I expect.

Outside of seeing Taker, seeing Brock is always a good thing for me, maybe Sting/Hunter will be good, if we get the Hunter from WM 30 there is a definite chance. I'm not a fan really of big multi man ladder matches, but I am a fan of a lot of the talent in that IC title match so we will see. Cena/Rusev could be great, if they work to their potential instead of doing what they did at FastLane.

That's about it, I'm afraid.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Sting/HHH/Taker/Wyatt entrances will probably be the best thing about this Mania and you know what? I'm perfectly fine with that lol. 

Bring on the spectacle of sports entertainment :vince2

I'm expecting the guys in the ladder match to go out there and probably murder themselves for our enjoyment so I can't complain about that. Reigns/Lesnar will be a joke. I will watch for the funnies. Rusev/Cena and Rollins/Orton both have potential. 

I'm just glad I'm not going this year because then I'd be quite annoyed considering how incredible and magical the whole experience was last year.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm not expecting to like anything except Orton/Rollins and possibly Taker/Wyatt, and even Taker/Wyatt is a question mark tbh. Rusev/Cena was boring as it was the last time so fuck that (unless they let the memories of a blatant cocktease vanish away w/awesomeness); IC Title Ladder match is going to be a mindless spotfest, though I like all but one guy in there (Truth); Andre Battle Royal I could've cared if they hadn't fucked up Cesaro; Divas Tag I wouldn't care anyway; Sting/HHH COULD be good but I don't really give a fuck tbh; and Lesnar/Reigns I'll watch, laugh and cry at the same time for the LOLZ because we all know what it'll come down to. Add to the David Guetta & co. performance that'll inevitably take away 20 minutes of my life and there you go. Has there ever been a WM that looked more like a joke than this one? I hope to God that fans hijack the shit out of the show so that Vince can step down from the role. At least w/Hunter & Steph, there's some form of hope for a more coherent product.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Just watched my first episode of Lucha Underground. Muertes/Fenix was great. I also like the qualities of Aerostar and Drago but the match was light (may be because I'm watching it out of context).

Not sure I have anything to say about WrestleMania. But quick question, how would you guys have reacted if the main event was Bryan and Reigns vs. Lesnar in a 2 on 1 Handicap Match? To win the title, you'd have to pin Lesnar.


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> plz don't tell me you missed Christian's time as god on ECW.


of course not

But I saw it when it aired, so it's been a good five years. Rewatch is required.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Excited for the ladder match, everything else can fuck off. Orton/Rollins, Cena/Rusev and Taker/Wyatt could all be good but I'm not interested because the build's been that bad.

If Reigns leaves Raw next week as champion I'm done with wrestling for the foreseeable future.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Christmas just came in march boys the Beast is staying for multiple years. Shit just got far more interesting.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Please for the love of all that is good in this world, never let Lesnar hold the title hostage again.


----------



## looper007 (Dec 20, 2014)

WrestlingOracle said:


> Christmas just came in march boys the Beast is staying for multiple years. Shit just got far more interesting.


I'm just happy we could get two classics now

vs Orton
vs Bryan

these matches have to happen.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Ugh, I'd rather he fuck off for good.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Now that I have calmed down abit, I will preface my "christmas" comment by pointing out that I say that with the wide hope that FOR THE LOVE OF THINGS GOOD NO MORE HHH MATCHES and hopefully if there has to be any, just literally one more Cena match if there HAS to be one (and I know there will), and while I'd love Orton and hopefully a year or two down the line Zayn, it would be criminal if we never get Brock/Bryan 20 plus minutes. I hope we get more sitdowns too. A multi-year deal with a phasing out Cena and potentially a failed Reigns yields alot of potential. Orton, Bryan, a 1 v 1 Seth, maybe a rebuilt Bray Wyatt, maybe a slugfest I have wanted since Lesnar came back vs Sheamus (especially if Brock is face), Zayn. Hell, I have a strong feeling Vince will find a petty reason to hold down Steen on the main roster, but a monster vs monster match in two/three years time of Brock vs Steen could be something and while Vince seems to make it a hobby to fuck with Cesaro, it wouldn't take long to rebuild Cesaro. Cesaro is wishful thinking on my part at this point, I think wwe has slotted him in the "hell of a hand" position. Country Boy face Lesnar vs Rusev would be real solid with Heyman vs Lana interaction. The latter half of my list is very wishful thinking, but hell I'm throwing it out there.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

I'm curious, because I've seen a lot of love about Orton's inring ability as of late and as WWE viewer for a decade I don't get why. Can anyone list me a Top 10 about him or explain to me why he's so good?

My list would be...

Vs Mick Foley - Backlash 2004

And that's about it. Please, if you sense the strong will to suggest any match against Triple H, please contain yourself.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

BROCK :mark:

Orton's had plenty of good stuff, IMO the best being V HBK at Survivor Series 2007. V Triple H at Royal Rumble 2005 and LMS at No Mercy 2007 are both good...


----------



## RATED-RKO1991 (Dec 23, 2006)

Orton vs Rey Mysterio NWO 2006
Orton vs Edge Vengeance 2004
Orton vs Undertaker all of 2005 
Orton Vs Benoit Summerslam 2004 
Orton vs Christain OTL 2012(?) 
Orton vs Cena NWO 08 & Breaking Point
Just a few of the top of my head, no order.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Fighter Daron said:


> I'm curious, because I've seen a lot of love about Orton's inring ability as of late and as WWE viewer for a decade I don't get why. Can anyone list me a Top 10 about him or explain to me why he's so good?
> 
> My list would be...
> 
> ...


His Last Man Standing match with Triple H at No Mercy 2007 is amazing. I agree that everything else they do together is pretty underwhelming but that match is absolutely amazing. Triple H is generally about a million times better as a heel than a face but this is his very best face performance and Orton is just as good as him and plays a fantastic heel. 

His stuff Shawn Michaels is also amazing. Not as much their Cyber Sunday match (though I really like that one as well) but the match they had at Survivor Series is amazing as well. 

Anything he did with the Undertaker ruled. 

I don't think there has been a better IC Title match than his match with Edge at Vengeance 2004.

He had some people convinced that Kofi Kingston was a future main eventer. 

He had an awesome match with Ted DiBiase Jr. (who else can say that?) 

Anything he did with Christian was great

He's also been the sole survivor or close to it in like 6 or 7 Survivor Series matches and most were good and some were great. 

I haven't seen any of them in a while but I know there were some awesome Evolution tag matches he was a part of as well. 

He's hit or miss with Cena but I feel like there are some hits in them.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Please for the love of all that is good in this world, never let Lesnar hold the title hostage again.


Honestly things are set up really well right now for him to hold the title hostage. If Bryan and Cena win the lower titles functionally WWE is back to normal with 2 top guys holding titles and defending them on PPV. And then we get the added bonus of Lesnar showing up a few times and having cards with 3 main event quality matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

obby said:


> of course not
> 
> But I saw it when it aired, so it's been a good five years. Rewatch is required.


Getting strong matches out of nearly everybody. Like two vs Zack Ryder, for example. And Ezekial "what else did my career have other than awesome matches vs Christian" Jackson. But the ladder match vs Shelton. The only match not worth revisiting. He was still just about perfect in my eyes.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Well, the "viper" persona of Orton where Orton works at an excruciatingly slow pace and tries to emulate a viper by quick striking, than slowing/"coiling" back while making ten thousand facial expressions to try and demonstrate he is crazy often blows up in Orton's face ala vs Kofi Kingston. so that Orton isn't good.

To me, the most crucial aspect to wrestling is selling, and Orton can sell in spades ie: selling superkicks, the clinic he put up with that disoriented look selling Cesaro's swing and the after-effects, the rare stunner sells, the absolute look of agony as Mick Foley would punish Orton at Backlash, selling the predatory role of Undertaker. So many today just sell tremendously overkill to get themselves over ala Ziggler, but guys like Orton, Rollins when he sells for the story, Dean and Zayn. They are a few of a rare breed of modern guys that get it. Randy may not have a Davey Richards' movelist, but everything he does he executes, well, generally flawlessly and gets a good reaction. Best powerslam in the business, one of the most over finishers in the biz probably most behind the rainmaker and when it gets called up will be Red Arrow, great dropkick, unique backbreaker, dont care for the Garvin Stomps but it can help tell the story, nice uppercuts, sick ddt and the guy is quite underrated at throwing hands since he so rarely does it. Guy can have a good match with so many styles, sizes and matchtypes, and the guy understands psychology well ala Randy unlike damn near everyone else uses the superplex for the intended use as a momentum shifter within the match. and not a high spot to get a short term pop. 


Top ten Orton? Well I would certainly have a unique list there, as my favorite Orton matches don't correlate in the order of most people and I've never seen the Christian match everyone raves about and I have yet to see all Mysterio matches.

1. Cactus Jack Backlash 04 ***** (great character work, tremendous use of physicality that wove into a story and went well beyond violence for the sake of violence, tremendous selling particularly with Orton, very solid story, I was immensely entertained and can't recall beyond a minor flaw. I don't throw ****3/4 around, so it gives the full five from me, it is my list and opinions....)
This is where the uniqueness comes in:
2. Randy/Taker HIAC ****1/2
3. Benoit Summerslam 04 ****1/2
4. Michaels/Randy Survivor Series no Superkick: ****1/4
5. Rey/Randy SD April 06 (bias for attending reasons) ****1/4
6. Shield/Evolution ER ****1/4
7. Benoit No holds Barred ****1/4
8. Goldust Raw 2013 (highest of the **** albeit I think it would go down on a rewatch without the emotion that was the driving force of the great story)
9. Mania 30 main event: ****
10. New Year's Revolution EC


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Sorry for the double post, but a quick point I would like to make is that that top 10 list may be no slouch, but is certainly not eye popping. Where the list would shine is if you expanded that. The guy has been in a true smorgasbord of **** or near the mark matches imo., as I have yet to list the Bryan tv matches, Team Bischoff vs Austin, the eight man evolution/hbk, benjamin, benoit and Mick match, I am sure both Christian matches that get raved about, I am sure the Mysterio matches I haven't seen, the most recent EC that Orton had a solid performance in ranging from comedy to seriousness, and then very good, but not great matches like the other Taker matches, Cesaro February SD, several Randy vs Edge matches.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I can't describe to you how excited I got when I read that Brock resigned. They have to find a way to book him against Sheamus, Bryan, and Orton before the next contract runs out.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Fighter Daron said:


> I'm curious, because I've seen a lot of love about Orton's inring ability as of late and as WWE viewer for a decade I don't get why. Can anyone list me a Top 10 about him or explain to me why he's so good?
> 
> My list would be...
> 
> ...







Easily his best match to me. Also 8/16/04 v. Benoit (night after SSlam, which is good to). 1/13/06 and 1/27/06 v. Benoit as well. Did you see the Henry WHC win? It was Henry's match in every way but Orton was shockingly good considering how fed up I've been with Orton for like forever. The Christian feud is overrated but OTL is at least a really good match.

I'm not really an Orton fan but he's a fresh and exciting guy to watch from 04-06. Prob one of the best guys in the world. Definitely in the US. 2004 had Guerrero, Benoit and Rey almost wrestling at their best so it's no insult that he was #4 in that company.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

idk this current joke of Orton being so great in the ring around the WWE section these days (all of a sudden the conspiracy theories come out too. sheesh), but no doubt during his hot streak of 2004 - 2006 he was one of the most reliable & fun guys to check out. This isn't to say 2007 & 2008 he was worthless, but It was def a time during 2004 & 2006 that you knew he couldn't be stopped as someone who was tearing it up. Then he got suspended, put back on RAW and he was slightly quelled by some of the programs & people he had to work vs. But he still got some fabulous stuff out during Age of Orton/"early" Viper days. _(vs Jeff Hardy from Royal Rumble '08 for the biggest example. Also a fan of vs Cena from NWO '08)_ Unfortunate his style changed b/c he should have never done it. No doubt the injury in 2008 completely shifted his momentum from prime to...not prime. Even though all of his matches before that time were shitty. He did work vs Triple H a lot. So, that explains it.

Basically, dude is washed. Just watch from those years and you'll be glad you did.


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Getting strong matches out of nearly everybody. Like two vs Zack Ryder, for example. And Ezekial "what else did my career have other than awesome matches vs Christian" Jackson. But the ladder match vs Shelton. The only match not worth revisiting. He was still just about perfect in my eyes.


Such a shame that he couldn't retire the ECW belt. Had to give it to another prototypical Vince guy in Zeke, who of course flopped shortly after.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Meh. Let em try and make their product a continued running gag. Doesn't affect Christian any. Only reason why that stuff worked was b/c of him, as it is.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Where's @Choke2Death with his Top 100 Orton list?

Aside from the prime years mentioned, I thought Orton was great in 2011 too. I'm sure people are gonna say nothing holds up but I still think it does. Plenty of good matches with Christian, Punk, Henry, Cody, etc etc.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I can't describe to you how excited I got when I read that Brock resigned. They have to find a way to book him against Sheamus, Bryan, and Orton before the next contract runs out.


Well, it is a multiple year deal, so there are 6-8 matches to play with since this mania match rolls on the last contract. Bryan/Lesnar practically writes itself, Orton and Lesnar have already had seeds planted from previous stares and Orton RKO'ing paul/if Brock is champ Orton never getting his 1 on 1 rematch and the two have never met while being the two youngest wwe world champions (I think Lou Thez holds the official record at I think 21), so those two are so easy to slide in. 

*What I selfishly want:*
Country boy Lesnar w/Heyman /Rusev w/ Lana some B ppv
Brock/Orton Summerslam
Brock/Rollins Royal Rumble
Brock/Bryan 32 title change

Bring back the chamber and throw Brock in the chamber with guys like Sheamus, a one off Kevin Owens, Bray Wyatt, Cena and Cesaro (boy I'm really reaching there that will NEVER happen)
Brock/by this time surging Sami Zayn Summerslam
Brock/Bryan rematch Rumble
Brock w/Heyman vs Bray with reformed Wyatt Family 33

*What I would accept that is if not realistic, plausible (assuming next year the belt is on Reigns)
Brock/Orton Summersla*m
Brock/Cena: the final chapter Survivor Series
Brock/Bryan 
Brock/Rock 32

Brock/Sheamus No. 1 contender
Brock/Bryan II, Brock gets title from then brief champ Bryan
some multi-man match with talented people and Brock
Brock/Bryan 33

*What we will probably get:*
Brock/Reigns rematch
Brock/Cena circa IV
At that point, they'll throw us a bone at the Rumble with Brock/Bryan RR
Brock/Rock 32

Brock/Cena: the final chapter
Brock/hopefully Rollins since they at least have faith in Rollins, but probably the Game
Brock/Orton finally
I honestly have no idea who they'd throw at Lesnar at 33. Knowing them, probably HHH because he will still be in shape two years from now and has the ego and has the jacked up order of Maslow's hierarchy, so HHH/Lesnar again at 33.


----------



## RATED R RULES (May 27, 2007)

If they handle Owens correctly (they won't) there is money in a Lesnar v Owens fight. 

Bryan fight may or may not happen depending on whether anyone in the company has any heart to put Bryan anywhere near a big fight. Rock v Brock is obviously a lock for WM32. Orton would be good for Summerslam or something like others have said.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not a chance.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

I am definitely excited with the Lesnar re-signing - Lesnar has always struck me, particularly in non-WWE interviews about wrestling, as someone who absolutely loves and respects it. He's quick to point out the physicality, the adrenaline, the the joy of performing, etc. and you see the glow and smile across his face when he talks about it. And he's a damn natural for it, the line between his on/off screen persona is a minor volume adjustment. 

He simply hates the travel schedule - he even quoted an old saying about he only real things in the business is the money and miles, and he hates the miles. BUT~! He mentioned appearing 1-2 per week as opposed to performing 3-4 times per week. My mind boggles with possibilities if that's the case. Hell, an appearance every other week on TV and matches at most PPV's would be swell by me. I think even most people who dislike him more have a problem with his schedule, not the performer. So much goodness:

Vs. Bryan
Vs. Wyatt
Vs. Cena
Vs. Cesaro - on Raw maybe? :grande:angel

And many more. Wyatt would intrigue me b/c it could be a really old-school, crazy-ass brawl - would be a nice use of a 'no-contest' as they just brawl the fuck out, breaking the stage down. Would make Wyatt look vicious without a title change or a loss.

Cesaro could be a great Raw match, and if only for a moment, could be a very real threat to Brock. He's got all the tools and background, afterall. Also, Cesaro just teeing off on Brock w/Uppercuts :mark: :trips8

Bryan, obviously, needs at least _one_ match but can you lend a brother a pencil and give 2-3 over the course of his contract? Would be nice.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Maybe Brock will wrestle TITUS O'NEILL.


----------



## RATED R RULES (May 27, 2007)

H said:


> Maybe Brock will wrestle TITUS O'NEILL.



I think they are slow building Mizdow for a Brock showdown at Mania 32 :wink2:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brock vs Punk II is the only match he's sticking around for.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Punk feud is also the only entertaining thing he did in this run.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

^ Suplexing Cena a centrillion times says hi. THANK GOD HE'S STAYING. There's a chance Reigns isn't winning after all. And that we may get Lesnar/Bryan down the road (maybe at SS this year).

As for the best of RANDY, off the top of my head:

1) vs Foley, Backlash 2004
2) vs Taker, Armageddon 2005
3) vs Benoit, Best of 7 Series
4) vs HBK, SVS 2007
5) vs Benoit, NHB
6) vs Rey, SD 2006
7) vs Bryan, Raw 2013
8) vs Christian, OTL 2011
9) vs Rey, NWO 2006
10) vs Taker, SS 2005


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The Punk feud is also the only entertaining thing he did in this run.


Extremely hyperbolic. His match vs Cena at ER was entertaining. His return was entertaining. His triple threat match was entertaining. His HHH matches were arguably entertaining.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

Of all the matches you guys have listed, I get that one against Christian at OTL, that was amazing, but the rest are just good matches. I'm not saying Orton is a bad worker, but he doesn't seem brilliant to me, he has all the tools to have good matches with everyone(except HHH), but doesn't have the requirements to go beyond that IMO.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I am downright giddy Brock is staying. No matter what, when I hear his music hit and see him walk down the ramp with that beanie and his fight shorts on, I know shits about to get real and the excitement is tangible. Brock will always be a big deal for me, he's just one of those guys I will always love watching. Also, when Brock is on and he's at his best, and he has a good baby face to work against, he's capable of turning in all time great heel performances on the regular. His matches with Eddie, Taker, Benoit, Punk, Cena, and Angle are all classics in my eyes. Brock just gets it, and I think he's probably the best athlete to ever be a pro wrestler, all due respect to Kurt Angle.

Just the way Brock moves around in the ring and bumps doesn't seem real to me. How can a guy his size move like that? Plus, Brock usually does 2-3 things in a match that just make you say "Holy $&@! that's not possible!" Just little things, like how he jumps right up on to the apron when making his entrance from the floor, or that time he jumped up and stomped that piece of wood from the announce desk on Punks back. He gets some serious air and hang time, stuff you see only in the NBA, and he does it like its nothing. Brock also did the single most impressive feat of strength I've ever seen in the ring. During his HiaC match with Taker, he wrestled 25+ minutes at a non stop pace, bled all over the place, and STILL, when it came time for the finish, he had Taker in the position for a Tombstone, thought "Nah", and just straight jacked Taker up in the air, tossing him like he's a sack of flower, caught him in the firemans carry, and hit him with the F5 to end the match. That's unfreakingbelievable. I don't even know how it's possible to do that to a 300+ lb man, let alone while you're covered in sweat after wrestling a 25+ minute blood bath of a match. Nothing has ever impressed me so much.

So, to sum it up, I'm glad Brock's back because simply there is no one else even remotely like him in the WWE these days. He's a true one of a kind. Let's hope WWE doesn't get cheap again and will actually pay his dates so we see him more than once in a blue moon, but I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I need help, can someone be my wrestling psychologist? My favourites are two whom admittedly got into after their change (Austin 3:16) and Crow Sting. So I sort of want to check out their early stuff which I really don't think I've seen. It's lately I'm in need of something to watch I guess, haven't slept in 5 days, then slept a bit today. Also I'm fucking ecstatic BROCK LESNAR has signed on, hope he brutalises Reigns. Also hope STING puts Triple H down.

HERE COMES THE PAIN REIGNS






also FUCK YOU VINCE






one of my favourites buried


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fighter Daron said:


> Of all the matches you guys have listed, I get that one against Christian at OTL, that was amazing, but the rest are just good matches. I'm not saying Orton is a bad worker, but he doesn't seem brilliant to me, he has all the tools to have good matches with everyone(except HHH), but doesn't have the requirements to go beyond that IMO.


This is ironic b/c that match is brutally mediocre to me, and I'd have plenty from his prime years over it. Bless Christian's heart though. He tried. He was like Charlie Brown on Halloween, only got a bunch of rocks.



King Kenny said:


> I need help, can someone be my wrestling psychologist? My favourites are two whom admittedly got into after their change (Austin 3:16) and Crow Sting. So I sort of want to check out their early stuff which I really don't think I've seen. It's lately I'm in need of something to watch I guess, haven't slept in 5 days, then slept a bit today. Also I'm fucking ecstatic BROCK LESNAR has signed on, hope he brutalises Reigns. Also hope STING puts Triple H down.


Austin vs Muta from Spring Stampede '94 is awesome. It's very "grounded" but the kind of match that shows how great pre-Stone Cold Austin was. The hot Muta comeback in the end rules too, but it is def an Austin show. Can't go wrong w/numerous tags he had while in WCW. That's not very specific, but he shows up in mid-91 & using cagematch(.net) will help you find what can look appealing to ya. I'd skip Austin vs Dustin Rhodes from Starrcade '93 unless you were REALLY just wanting to see it. Unfortunately a poor match.

Basically avoid the lot of Sting matches when he was champion for the first time, b/c WCW were morons and gave him crap. But the match vs Sid was p. good. That's Halloween Havoc '90. Majority of his other stuff pre-Crow worth seeing is everything vs Vader, vs Cactus Jack Beach Blast '92, vs MENG Great American Bash '95, vs Regal Great American Bash '96, vs Flair from Starrcade 89 & World War 3 95 _(the latter here was a neat surprise; super fun stuff)_ & plenty of terrific tags. This falls under the same thing w/Austin b/c they were on opposite sides for a nice chunk of matches in the early 90's. Two must sees are Sting & Luger vs Steiners from SuperBrawl I aka 1991 & iirc, Sting & Dusty vs Road Warriors from Starrcade 1988 is borderline excellent too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I put a 'Best Of Sting' list together a while back:

Sting/Eddie Gilbert vs The Fantastics (No DQ) (TV 9/30/86)
Sting/Eddie Gilbert vs The Fantastics (TV 1/6/87)
Sting/Luger/Windham vs Ric Flair/Arn Anderson/Tully Blanchard - Main Event 03.04.1988 
Sting vs Ric Flair - NWA Clash Of The Champions I
Sting/Nikita Koloff vs Arn Anderson and Tully Blanchard - NWA Great American Bash 1988
Sting/Lex Luger vs Arn Anderson/Tully Blanchard (NWA Crockett Cup 4/23/88)
Sting vs Stan Lane - NWA Main Event 12.06.1988
Sting/Dusty Rhodes vs Arn Anderson/Tully Blanchard - Clash Of The Champions II
Sting vs Barry Windham - NWA Clash of the Champions III 
Sting/Road Warriors vs Sullivan/Rotunda/Steiner - NWA PRO 22.10.1988
Sting/Dr. Death vs Midnight Express (NWA Main Event 10.23.88) 
Sting/Dusty Rhodes vs Road Warriors - NWA Starrcade 1988 
Sting/Dr Death vs Terry Funk/Terry Gordy - WCW Power Hour 04.08.1989
Sting vs Great Muta - WCW Power Hour 01-09-1989
Sting/Ric Flair vs Great Muta/Dick Slater - WCW Clash Of The Champions VIII 09/12/1989
Sting vs Great Muta - WCW Great American Bash 1989 
Sting/Ric Flair vs Terry Funk/The Great Muta - WCW Halloween Havoc 1989
Sting/Ric Flair/Arn Anderson vs Buzz Sawye/Dragon Master/Great Muta (WCW Power Hour 1/26/90)
Sting vs Ric Flair - WCW Great American Bash 1990 
Sting vs Sid Vicious - WCW Halloween Havoc 1990
Sting vs Bobby Eaton (WCWSN 11/10/90)
Sting/Lex Luger vs The Steiner Brothers - WCW Superbrawl I
Sting/Brian Pillman/Steiners vs Horsemen (Saturday Night, 19/1/1991)
Sting vs The Great Muta - 21.03.1991 (Japan Version) 
Sting/Brian Pillman/Rick Steiner/Scott Steiner vs Ric Flair/Larry Zbyszko/Barry Windham/Sid Vicious. - Wrestle War 1991: Wargames 
Sting vs Cactus Jack - WCW 19.11.1991 (Submit or Surrender)
WCW Starrcade 1991 Battlebowl Battle-Royal
Sting/Great Muta vs The Stenier Brothers - NJPW Supershow 04.01.1992
Sting/Ricky Steamboat/Marcus Bagwell vs Steve Austin/Bobby Eaton/Rick Rude (WCW Pro 1/18/92)
Sting/Ricky Steamboat vs Rick Rude/Steve Austin - WCW Clash Of The Champions 22 - 21.01.1992
Sting/Marcus Bagwell vs Arn Anderson/Larry Zbyszko (Pro 2/1/92)
Sting/The Steiner Brothers vs Big Van Vader/Cactus Jack/Mr. Hughes. (Main Event – 2.9.92)
Sting/Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes/Ricky Steamboat vs Arn Anderson/Bobby Eaton/Larry Zbyszko /Rick Rude (WCWSN 2/22/92)
Sting/Marcus Bagwell/Rick/Scott Steiner vs Arn Anderson/Bobby Eaton/Larry Zbyszko/Cactus Jack (Pro 2/22/92)
Sting’s Squadron vs Dangerous Alliance - (Wargames) (Wrestlewar 1992)
Sting vs Lex Luger WCW SuperBrawl II
Sting vs Cactus Jack - WCW Beach Blast 1992 (Falls Count Anywhere)
Sting vs Big Van Vader - WCW Great American Bash 1992 
Sting/Nikita Koloff/The Steiners vs Vader/Super Invader/Rick Rude/Jake Roberts (Elimination Match) WCW Clash XX 9/2/92
Sting/The Steiner Brothers vs Rick Rude/Bobby Eaton/Arn Anderson - (WWW 10/3/92)
Sting vs Rick Rude - WCW Clash 18.11.1992 
Sting/Ron Simmons vs Rick Rude/Vader WCWSN 12/5/92
Sting vs Vader - WCW Starrcade 1992 
Sting/Muta vs Vader/Chono - (Philadelphia PA, 29/12/1992, handheld)
Sting/Dustin Rhodes vs Big Van Vader/Barry Windham - (WCWSN – 1/30/93)
Sting vs Vader - WCW Superbrawl III 21.02.1993 (Strap match)
Sting/British Bulldog/Dustin Rhodes vs Vader/Sid/Rick Rude - WCW Clash Of The Champions 23
Sting/The British Bulldog vs Vader/Sid Vicious - WCW Beach Blast 1993
Sting vs Hiroshi Hase - WCW/NJPW Supershow 1993
Sting vs Bobby Eaton - Saturday Night 16.10.1993
Sting/Dave Boy Smith vs Harlem Heat - Saturday Night 28.08.1993
Sting vs Sid - Halloween Havoc 1993 
Sting/Dustin Rhodes/Cactus Jack vs Big Van Vader/Paul Orndorff/Barry Windham - (Thunderdome Cage) (1993)
Sting/The British Bulldog/Dustin Rhodes & The Shockmaster vs Big Van Vader/Sid Vicious/Harlem Heat - WCW Fall Brawl 1993
Sting/Ricky Steamboat/Ric Flair vs Nasty Boys/Rick Rude (Saturday Night, 27/11/1993) 
Sting vs Steve Austin (WCWSN 1/1/94)
Sting/Ric Flair vs Vader/Rick Rude – WCW Clash of the Champions XXVI 27/01/1994
Sting/Dustin Rhodes/Brian Pillman vs Rick Rude/Steve Austin/Paul Orndorff w/Rob Parker - Thundercage (WCW Superbrawl IV 20.02.1994)
Sting/Ricky Steamboat vs Ric Flair/Steven Regal - (Munich 3/16/94) - House Show
Sting vs Ric Flair - WCW Clash Of The Champions XXVII 23.06.1994
Sting/Steamboat vs Steve Austin/Ric Flair - (WCWSN: 7/30/94) 
Sting vs Kensuke Sasaki - Japan 1995
Sting vs Meng - WCW Great American Bash 1995
Sting/Macho Man vs Avalanche/Big Bubba - WCW Superbrawl 1995 
Sting vs Lex Luger vs Ric Flair - WCW Starrcade 1995 
Sting vs Kensuke Sasaki - WCW Starrcade 1995
Sting/Ric Flair vs Brian Pillman/Arn Anderson WCW Halloween Havoc 1995
Sting vs Hulk Hogan - Nitro 20.11.1995
Sting/Hulk Hogan/Randy Savage/Lex Luger vs The Dungeon of Doom - WCW Fall Brawl 1995 (War Games Match)
Sting/Hulk Hogan vs Ric Flair/Arn Anderson WCW Monday Nitro 11/12/1995 
Sting/Lex Luger vs. Meng/Barbarian WCW Monday Nitro 5/20/96
Sting/Luger vs The Outsiders - WCW Hog Wild 1996
Sting vs Lord Steven Regal - WCW Great American Bash 1996
Sting/Booker T vs The Road Warriors - WCW Uncensored 1996 (Chicago Street Fight)
Sting/Luger vs Road Warriors - WCW Superbrawl 1996
Sting vs Scott Steiner - WCW Monday Nitro 27.05.1996 
Sting/Randy Savage/Lex Luger vs The Outsiders - WCW Bash at the Beach 1996
Sting vs Hulk Hogan - WCW Starrcade 1997 (Included for historical purpose - Up yours Hogan)
Sting vs Hulk Hogan - WCW SuperBrawl 1998
Sting/The Giant vs The Outsiders - WCW Slamboree 1998
Sting/Lex Luger/Ric Flair/Arn Anderson vs Hulk Hogan/Kevin Nash/Scott Hall/'Sting' - Fall Brawl 1996: Wargames
Sting vs Goldberg – WCW Monday Nitro 14.09.1998
Sting vs Bret Hart - WCW Halloween Havoc 1998 
Sting vs Scott Hall - WCW Uncensored 1998
Sting vs Hulk Hogan vs DDP vs Ric Flair - WCW Spring Stampede 1999
Sting vs Bret Hart - WCW Monday Nitro 10/18/99
Sting vs DDP - WCW Monday Nitro 26.04.1999 
Sting vs Hulk Hogan - WCW Monday Nitro 8/23/99 
Sting vs Chris Benoit WCW Monday Nitro 9/20/99
Sting vs Ric Flair - WCW Monday Nitro 4/12/99
Sting vs Ric Flair WCW Monday Nitro 3/26/01 (Last ever Nitro)
Sting vs Jeff Jarrett - TNA Bound for Glory 2006
Sting vs Kurt Angle - TNA Bound For Glory 2007
Sting vs AJ Styles - TNA Bound For Glory 2009


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Some of those later matches. :evil


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Brock said:


> I put a 'Best Of Sting' list together a while back:
> 
> Sting/Eddie Gilbert vs The Fantastics (No DQ) (TV 9/30/86)
> Sting/Eddie Gilbert vs The Fantastics (TV 1/6/87)
> ...


OMG. A like wouldn't be sufficient enough to show my appreciation. The memories of ones I've seen, excitement for ones I haven't. 



Brock said:


> I put a 'Best Of Sting' list together a while back:
> 
> *Sting/Eddie Gilbert vs The Fantastics (No DQ) (TV 9/30/86)
> Sting/Eddie Gilbert vs The Fantastics (TV 1/6/87)
> ...


i'm pretty sure thats where i started watching sting (around the same i started Austin. I watched both companies, the sleepless nights, how excited I got for Nitro. Sting, DDP, nWo, Flair, Eddie, Mysterio, and heaps more I could go on. I didn't watch any of his TNA stuff from memory. 

WWE network here I come.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Some of those later matches. :evil


I made that list when i was thinking about making a comp, just tried to pad it out a bit. 

----------------------

Try and remember Multi Quote/Edit feature Kenny please.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd say chuck in the match vs Hogan from TNA. A fun time. And certainly memorable. Helps that it is the only match of their's that was actually good, too, haha.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Austin/Dustin at Havoc 91 is Austin's best pre-WWF singles match IMO. And yeah, Starrcade 93 was a let down to say the least. I fucking hate that match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Couldn't remember the date of their other PPV match. Havoc '91? Sweet. I'm on GAB '91 next so I'm inching closer & closer.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Austin/Dustin at Havoc 91 is Austin's best pre-WWF singles match IMO. And yeah, Starrcade 93 was a let down to say the least. I fucking hate that match.


Hot damn you just gave me something to watch when I get home, thanks. No idea why on earth I've never seen Austin/Dustin HH 91', I obviously love Austin and Dustin in those early WCW days is one of my favorite baby faces. Thanks a lot. Just another question though, I know Austin had a series with Barry Windham, did any of those live up to their potential? Never seen a single one of their matches together, but I'd read someone post before that they had one craptastic boring ass match.

Not having seen Austin/Dustin HH 91', I'd say my favorite pre-WWE Austin match was that match he had with Steamboat at COTC 1994. Can't remember the exact date, but it's the COTC where Hogan gets attacked by Arn in a ski mask with a lead pipe, I know this because the commentators annoyingly keep discussing the attack over and over in the early part of the match instead of just calling the damn action. Along with that, Austin had another great match with Steamboat at BatB 1994, and another still at a COTC in 1992. Then you've got his tags, the 2/3 Falls Hollywood Blondes vs Flair/Arn tag at COTC in 1993 (it's Flairs return ppV) is a classic. The one off Vader/Austin vs Flair/Arn tag on Saturday Night in 1993 is amazing as well, Austin and Vader had excellent chemistry right from the jump and the match is 30 minutes of tag team bliss. Also, Austin/Pillman had a series of excellent tags with Steamboat/Douglas that are surely worth the time to track down.

As for Sting pre-Crow gimmick, I think Haley just about nailed all the high points. Along with Sting/Cactus Beach Blast 1992, there is another fabulous Sting/Cactus match on WCW Power Hour in Nov. 1991. It involves numerous creative uses of a plastic trash can, super fun match to watch. It's a "Submit or Surrender" match. Also Sting/Flair from GAB 1990 is pretty good, although I prefer their Starrcade match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

There's about a 0.8% chance of it happening, but I'm attending Payback in May and I can only wish my little heart out that Brock would somehow be wrestling on that show. That's incredibly doubtful considering it's a B-PPV and the arena only seats ~10,000 people, but a man can dream!


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

so much stuff to watch :mark: ive got 4 hours before australia vs germany in a football international :mark:

peoples thoughts on wrestlemania now? (i havent read the smackdown spoilers yet), i sort of just got home as i asked the last question

whats peoples opinion on Edge/Cena and the matches? what about umaga? i didnt watch wrestling during this time really but watched the MITB cash in but wasnt an active watcher i liked Umaga a lot but missed this program

then i think of Kurt Angle

loved vs Austin in 2001
loved vs Lesnar 
vs Cena
vs Shawn Michaels

im pretty sure i havent watched these





















loved this:







i'm pretty sure i wanted him to win the WWE title in 2005


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Austin and Windham had a series of matches in 1992 that culminated in a 2/3 falls match. I didn't like the way Austin wrestled their matches though because he relied too much on rest holds and pretty much ignored the crowd, but you might like the extended matwork and the snug strikes from Austin. Check out their 6/13/92 match in particular as that was their best.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

King Kenny said:


> :mark:


Kenny, can you start editing your posts instead of double posting please mate.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Sorry

I'll head off here for abit. I'm watching Vengenace 2005, the whole show again, since the first time it aired. :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'd say the only thing Brock's resigning confirms is we will probably see Reigns/Lesnar II @ Extreme Rules. Can only hope we see Bryan/Lesnar down the road


As crazy as it sounds, Am I the only one NOT that high on Flair/Arn vs. Austin/Pillman COTC ? It kinda is a struggle for me to sit through and find myself looking at my phone alot watching it


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Brock re-signing at least makes the result of the Mania main event a little more doubtful.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Renee said:


> I'd say the only thing Brock's resigning confirms is we will probably see Reigns/Lesnar II @ Extreme Rules. Can only hope we see Bryan/Lesnar down the road
> 
> 
> As crazy as it sounds, Am I the only one NOT that high on Flair/Arn vs. Austin/Pillman COTC ? It kinda is a struggle for me to sit through and find myself looking at my phone alot watching it


Nah you aren't crazy, WCW tags from that era aren't for everyone, that one in particular if I remember correctly has a super extended baby face shine period to start which can be a turnoff for some, but as for me I loved it. Same with the Vader/Austin vs Flair/Arn tag, that match has probably the longest baby face shine period to start a tag match of any I've ever seen. Even longer than the ones in those fabulous Arn/Tully vs Rockers matches. I can see their point, the heat segment is generally the most fun part of a great "Southern tag" style match, but man when you do a really long shine segment to start and then the heels do something underhanded to get their heat started, it can turn a great heat segment nuclear because fans get so irate that the obvious better wrestlers are getting beaten down because of cheating.

Also, I'm a big fan of all 4 of the wrestlers involved in that 2/3 falls match, it would almost be hard for them to have a tag match I didn't enjoy.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea that might be it, another crazy opinion, not as high on Ric Flair as most in this thread so that may be it.





Biggest lie I've ever told


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Not having seen Austin/Dustin HH 91', I'd say my favorite pre-WWE Austin match was that match he had with Steamboat at COTC 1994.


Oh, right. Forgot about the Steamboat matches. Yeah, there are like 3 better than Austin/Rhodes.  I've liked every Windham match I've seen but don't remember specifics.


----------



## TheChoppingMachine (Mar 25, 2014)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I'd say chuck in the match vs Hogan from TNA. A fun time. And certainly memorable. Helps that it is the only match of their's that was actually good, too, haha.


Seeing these two having the match of the night on the biggest show of the year for TNA was amazing. 

And I'll take this opportunity to praise Sting vs Aries. I don't think I've seen it since it aired but I remember being a lot of fun.
I should watch it right now, this + some Lucha and I'll be good for the night.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Renee said:


> Yea that might be it, another crazy opinion, not as high on Ric Flair as most in this thread so that may be it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Didn't realize you were Skins. fpalm. Ignore what I said :lmao thought you were some random guy,



Yeah1993 said:


> Oh, right. Forgot about the Steamboat matches. Yeah, there are like 3 better than Austin/Rhodes.  I've liked every Windham match I've seen but don't remember specifics.


:lmao. Austin and Steamer did have some amazing chemistry, then again I can't really think of 1 single wrestler who ever feuded with Ricky that he DIDNT have great chemistry with. Maybe I'm forgetting someone, but I don't think I am. If you were a heel and couldn't have a decent match with Ricky Steamboat you probably should be in a different profession. Shame he had to retire so suddenly while feuding with Austin, he was still one of the best in the world in 1994, you gotta figure he had at least another 2 years or so left.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Steamboat and Funk are two wrestlers i need to see more matches of TBH, a lot more. 

Hardly seen any Steamer ones outside the few obvious ones. Same could be said for Funk.

The Steamboat/Austin feud i will watch someday soon....


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Didn't realize you were Skins. fpalm. Ignore what I said :lmao thought you were some random guy,
> 
> 
> 
> :lmao. Austin and Steamer did have some amazing chemistry, then again I can't really think of 1 single wrestler who ever feuded with Ricky that he DIDNT have great chemistry with. Maybe I'm forgetting someone, but I don't think I am. If you were a heel and couldn't have a decent match with Ricky Steamboat you probably should be in a different profession. Shame he had to retire so suddenly while feuding with Austin, he was still one of the best in the world in 1994, you gotta figure he had at least another 2 years or so left.


Hell, Steamer when he came back for his little stint with Jericho being the worker of that group and then briefly shooting off one on one vs Jericho, Steamer wasn't half bad. Actually, it is funny you say so suddenly: Sure Steamboat had plenty left in the tank, but he was good since the later 70s whenever given a good shot. Hell of a babyface that could get sympathy and people wanting to see that firey comeback, yet while not always seen, could bring intensity. Obviously Steamboat was involved in some of the more acclaimed matches and important matches of hell all time. I once again will bring up too for as revered and skilled as Ricky solo is, that Youngblood/Steamboat tag team is underrated. 


Not sure how many of you have seen this (I imagine the majority but Im sure SOMEONE here hasn't but wants too), here is a unique Steamboat bout that last I saw I recall being quite solid and is a very unique pairing:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Didn't realize you were Skins. fpalm. Ignore what I said :lmao thought you were some random guy,


:eva2

those other tags you mentioned are phenomenal


Terry Funk and Jerry Lawler are two guys I always tell myself to watch more of, Lawler more so as I've seen most of the famous funk matches


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Gonna be hard for anything on Mania to top that Owens/Balor match on NXT. Owens is the best champion the WWE has had since Punk, and if you go further than that I guess he's the best since Undertaker in 2008.

That Steamboat/Muta match looks fascinating. I can't believe I'm saying this though, but I'm starting to sour on Muta after Cal and Yeah1993 notified some of his flaws. I never noticed how lazy he was whenever he isn't on the offensive. Watching a Muta match for me has basically become a crapshoot that is based on how motivated he is that night.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Renee said:


> :eva2
> 
> those other tags you mentioned are phenomenal
> 
> ...


If you want to watch more Lawler dude, why not start with the best? Jheri was pimping this match the other day as one of the greatest he's ever seen, so I hopped on to YT and watched it and boy, I was completely and utterly blown away. It's a match that has IMO zero visible flaws, the pace, the selling, the crowd, the heat, and by God the punches are all as good as you will see in a match. Plus, this match contains A LOT more actual wrestling than I was expecting, Jheri was tripping all over himself to praise the punches in this bout, and rightly so because they are as good as it gets, but the match is a lot more than 2 guys trading punches.

So, without further ado, Lawler vs Dundee "Loser Leaves Town" 6/6/83






While you're hear, you mentioned wanting to see some more Funk. Well I've got an absolute doozy for you, it's another match I watched at the recommendation of Jheri and it's among the finest I've seen. It's also one of the more viscerally brutal matches, but not the way you would expect in a Terry Funk match. This is well before his hardcore days in ECW, the brutality comes from how HARD Funk and Hansen punch and kick the ever loving shit out of each other. Hansen is an absolute savage in this match, he's as evil a human being as I've seen, he just tortures poor Terry and refuses to give him even a moments reprieve. It just doesn't get too much better than this:

Funk vs Hansen AJPW 4/14/83 (it might actually be from 1982 I could never figure it out)






That should keep you busy for about 45 minutes or so whenever you have time to spare


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Will check out that Lawler/Dundee match when I can (Y) heard stellar stuff about it as well as the Funk/Lawler Empty arena match ( think you have put it over many times). Also put the lawler/Henning iron match on the list to watch when I can as well

Have seen that Hansen/Funk match, very good stuff. I have the network for another week and a half so just watching the most I can after not watching any wrestling in the last two months


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The influence is REAL. Soon NOBODY will like Mutoh. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH


Gonna start Bragging Rights today. A new lucha match from the 80s that could be an all time great classic popped up on youtube less than a week ago so that gets first priorities.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> The influence is REAL. Soon NOBODY will like Mutoh. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH


Already wrong. LOGIC. 

b/c me. idk. Shut up about Muta. :creepysmileyfromWE


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Renee said:


> Yea that might be it, another crazy opinion, not as high on Ric Flair as most in this thread so that may be it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol I was about to post "wtf, I thought this was 'skins the whole time!" But then I saw the white text when I went to quote.

WM build has been terrible, but on paper, many of the matches are intriguing. I don't think that it will be a terrible show.

Did Harper really injure his leg on Raw? He looked in legit pain. Was he able to perform well on Smackdown.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Speaking of Harper, since we were talking about Superstars the other day I decided to scour the shows from this year and see if there was anything good happening. It's not much, BUT, Harper & Kofi had a good singles match last month (I believe 2/27). Worth a watch, fun match. Tyson Kidd vs. Erick Rowan was short but really fun in the month of January as well. The past month of the show has been literally nothing but Adam Rose & The Ascension. No thank you.

There's apparently only two matches on Smackdown this week.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Read about Harper on Monday. ffs if he's injured for some garbage "everyone gets beat up w/a ladder b/c this is how we have to hype things up for WM" and can't make the show, I'll literally have less interest in that match than I currently do. Of course something like that would happen.

Superstars having less Kofi & more Ascension/Rose is actually 100% a positive thing. b/c you know, Kofi is a twonk and is shithouse. Watched an episode tonight and it was fine. An actual short WWE tag I was cool w/in Ascension vs PTPs & Rose vs Ryder clashed well in a short, lower card style affair. No harm, no foul. While I'm not watching much of anything these days from the product since Fast Lane, I actually sat back and had some fun w/the rare main roster thing I decided to kill some time w/.

Steen vs Devitt from NXT though. While I'm kind of lukewarm as a whole where NXT is going these days - it feels like it is stalling in a LOT of areas - that delivered. P. radical stuff. Steen using the headlock very well to dictate/dominate much of the first half, Devitt gets his comeback, gets cut off, destruction of the knee & a super convincing finishing stretch to top it off. The latest NXT special sucked, but I'm pleased 5 of the last six main events on the NXT weekly shows have all been well worth watching. Only one I didn't like was Breeze vs KENTA. Unsure about their 2/3 falls match, but I have my fingers crossed.

Just hurry up w/Zayn already. This is kind of pathetic now. We get it; he's an underdog. Remember when that didn't mean he was going to be gone the moment he got the championship? That was nice.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, Owens/Bálor was quite badass. Wasn't quite the OMFGWRESTLEMANIAISFUCKED quality classic I wanted to think it was (WM is fucked anyway tho), but it was great regardless. Kevin Owens. KEVIN FUCKING OWENS. Unbelievable doesn't make him justice. Skyrocketed to only second to Bryan as my favorite wrestler in the whole world right now.

And imo Rival did NOT suck btw. Only pointing that out because that Divas Fatal 4-Way deserves justice for itself. Best women's match in WWE history for my money.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I did have fun w/that, but a one match show is still essence for an event as a whole still being a stinker.

Over the Edge 1998 has Austin vs Dude Love, but that sure as hell isn't even a decent PPV.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well I thought the show was far from a stinker myself anyway. Neville/Bálor was much better than your average "TWO DARLINGS DOING MOVEZ~" match, Breeze/Itami benefitted from some badass heel work by Breeze, and I stand as one of these that defends Zayn/Owens and its ending (which seems to be one of NXT's most divisive matches ever). Fuck that Tag Titles match to death tho. Fuck it so hard. NXT's version of the DUD of DUD's. Legit felt sorry for poor Blake & Murphy that night, who really tried but couldn't save that trainwreck.

Do agree that Over The Edge 1998 was horrendous except Austin/Dude. We can stand on the same side on one thing at least 8*D As a matter of fact, besides SummerSlam and Judgment Day, can't call a single WWF PPV from that year I'd consider truly good. Dat WCW w/Halloween Havoc tho.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well, Bradshaw & Taka vs Kaientai from Over the Edge is super rad too, but it's still a shite show despite two big bright spots of 1998 WWF being on it. To stress my point, at least.

Halloween Havoc 1998 indeed. Gosh that show jumped up tons when I finally watched it again. Rick Steiner was on fire. Warrior wasn't b/c the fireball was botched.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Your last two lines were the best sentence ever written :clap

The fireball botch is the icing on top of the diahrrea cake that Hogan/Warrior was. But tbh, I think that is the perfect match. Because how the fuck can you not respect a match that deliberately tries to be the shittiest thing ever and suceeds? What an incredible effort.

Most folks remember DDP/Goldberg, and rightfully so, but Raven/Jericho that night totally rocked me away as well. Don't remember a singles match better than that for Raven, ever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd take Raven vs Dreamer in his (then) final ECW match in 1997 over it. Raven as Scotty Flamingo vs Pillman from Beach Blast '92 also, but I do really enjoy the match vs Jericho. One of those outings that just kind of became more than anticipated in the blink of an eye. Incredibly fun stuff.

The Horace heel turn to end Hogan vs Warrior too. My god. The wrestlecrap implications of it all.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Complete WCW PPV match listings:* (Ignore the star ratings, not by me lol)

http://m.uploadedit.com/ba3b/1427396991632.txt


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Owens/Balor from NXT was fantastic. My second favourite match of the year so far. Owens/Zayn is first. Yep. Owens is incredible on every level. I do think he maybe works too many headlocks in to his matches but it's almost becoming a signature move for him at this point to the point that the crowd have started popping for it. He does work them well though, grinding his chin into Balor's face was an awesome touch. Final 5 minutes absolutely ruled with the leg work etc.

I've loved Steen for years but the last few years of his indy run I wasn't paying too much attention because that whole side of wrestling fell off huge for me like it did for a lot of people, but he's never looked as good as he does currently in the ring. He's absolutely one of the best workers in the world.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> The influence is REAL. Soon NOBODY will like Mutoh. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH


*Looks at Sig* *Looks at my post count*

Nah, will never happen


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Owens/Balor was so great. I'm really loving the storytelling in Owens' matches. And yes, his headlocks are awesome (not as good as Cesaro's obviously, but still fantastic)


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Man, some of those WCW star ratings are wacky. **** for Steiners vs. Hall and Nash at Souled Out 97. MINUS FIVE STARS for a Meng vs. Barbarian match. :lol This guy must not have known what he was in for around 2009-2011 (loltna).


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Spoiler: WCW *






> Beach Blast 1992 (Mobile AL, 20/6/1992)
> 
> 1. Scotty Flamingo vs Brian Pillman (**1/2)





> Slamboree 1993 (Atlanta GA, 23/5/1993)
> 
> 1. Too Cold Scorpio & Marcus Bagwell vs Bobby Eaton & Chris Benoit (**1/4)





> Fall Brawl 1993 (Asheville NC, 19/9/1993)
> 
> 2. Rick Steamboat vs Steven Regal (**3/4)





> Spring Stampede 1994 (Chicago IL, 17/4/1994)
> 
> 7. Vader vs Boss (***)





> Slamboree 1994 (Philadelphia PA, 22/5/1994)
> 
> 
> 4. Larry Zbysko vs Steve Regal (**)


man, I a not in line with this guy.



> Slamboree 1993 (Atlanta GA, 23/5/1993)
> 
> 
> 8. Brian Pillman & Steve Austin vs Dos Hombres (Cage, ***3/4)





> Starrcade 1993 (Charlotte NC, 27/12/1993)
> 
> 
> 6. Dustin Rhodes vs Steve Austin (2/3, ***1/2)


very much



> Fall Brawl 1994 (Roanoke VA, 18/9/1994)
> 
> 8. Dusty & Dustin Rhodes & Nastys vs Terry Funk, Arn Anderson, Bunkhouse Buck & Rob Parker (War Games, *1/4)


 IF AT ALL.


-------------------------------------

*Bragging Rights! Dragging Kites! Lagging Lights! Nagging Mites! Dragon Knights! Wagon Fights! Baggy Tights! Extreme Negativity Ahead! Fffffuck Youuu!*


Daniel Bryan v. Dolph Ziggler
Ohhhh that’s right. I never saw this, I don’t think, but it’s something people were pumped as fuck for and people have continuing to love ever since it happened. I kind of hate being the guy to talk about matches like this because I’m really not one to be amped for them. That isn't all on the fact I don’t like Ziggler, but more that Bryan and Ziggler aren’t really two types of wrestlers I’d want to see in a match together. Like so many people’s dream match is stuff like Bryan v. Michaels and I’m not one to get excited for two people who wrestle like this against each other. That has to do with a certain ‘style’ I’m not fond of, I guess. Still I wouldn’t really care to see Jerry Lawler v. Rey Mysterio unless one of them is the heel, as an example. Not that that would be ‘this type of match’, and obviously Ziggler is the heel here so that’s at least different. I have some point here. Somewhere. I guess it really does boil down to the ‘style’ more than anything. I want to see Bryan viciously kick the shit out Roddy Strong like an arsehole. I want to see him fight upward against Morishima. I want to see him trade snug holds with Low Ki in a chess match. I want to see him as a throwback to 80s stooges in that 06 tag match. I even want to see him overcome the non-believable yet higher on the card threat in the Miz. I don’t care to see him do “this is awesome” stuff like in that three-way from HIAC. I’m not big on Ziggler largely because I see him as that type of wrestler. I’m in NO way judging the match before it’s even started, but I guess I’m not really excited for it and wanted to explain why without brushing it off as “ugh not this” (like I will when I see Randy Orton on this show). It could be an entirely different match. I haven’t even started it yet. Guess I’ll do that.


….Nope. 
I really, really, really wanted to love this or at least enjoy it, if for no other reason than it’s predictable for me not to like this type of thing and I look like I’m a grumpy willy face, but no, I didn’t think it was good. I almost want to apologise. When the commentating team was talking about Bryan having the Yes lock (what was it called? Lebelle? Labelle?) on Ziggler in front of the announce table sometime before the PPV, I at least had hopes for a premise. But fuck, this was almost exactly what I said I didn’t like in the above paragraph. Two guys wrestling the same style, and a style I don’t even like in the first place. It was almost everything I don’t like about Ziggler. Boring work-over, random as fuck ‘holy shit’ spamming, no structure by the half way mark, and restholds for no reason. Even the holds themselves; what was he doing? There were at least THREE where I couldn’t tell how what he was doing supposed to be hurting Bryan. I’m pretty sure one was a…headlock? That he didn’t finish? Where was his other arm? I just got this vibe from him that he was doing it to show off the ‘technical’ side, and it wasn’t fun. If you’re going to show off your ‘technical side’ at least make it make sense. Ziggler used a firemen’s carry which might be a show offy technical thing, but at least it got something done – Bryan’s on the floor now. And hey, it looked good and I could tell what it bloody was. I’m sick of ratting on Ziggler but he’s a guy I really wanted to stop being so sour on. I watched him have fun matches with Kofi Kingston and Kane; I’m not exactly dead inside every time I see him. It’s a match like this that reminds me why I never get excited to know he’s up next. The ‘finish stretch’ as I like to say, or whatever it was here, was not a good time. One second Bryan’s on the bottom and all of a sudden they’re even. I don’t remember a transition or build or anything. What was it that put Bryan on equal level? I …nothing. Then they spend the rest of the match doing the same Zigglery ‘wow’ action shit. Feels like all cohesiveness the match has is gone and I don’t even know what the hell they’re trying to do. They go from being kicked in the head to swinging kicks to the head in no time. Not no-selling or any of that, just placed weirdly. Like I bet I could take any of the ‘finish’ spots and jigsaw them together in any order and I couldn’t tell the difference. Especially that pin sequence which was straight out of a lame ROH match. Oh, damn, that’s it. This reminded me of ROH. And not in the same way something great like Bryan/Punk OTL 12 reminded of ROH because it was two guys without restrictions doing what isn’t the norm in the US. No it reminded me of the ROH that has two guys who just came off of watching a Misawa or Liger match and doing some poor imitation where the moves feel meaningless. Moves for the sake of moves, I guess. I mean fuck, I can’t even get angry at that. It’s not like an Orton or Edge main event where they look like they don’t even want to be there and half ass it. I just don’t want to see it. This isn’t going to help my rep that I didn’t know I had as WE’s #2 asshole, and I hate being ‘that guy’ sometimes, but I just didn't enjoy watching most of this. NOT ADDING.

Vickie complains to the ref even though Ziggler tapped, and the ref throws them out…despite the match being over, Bryan having left the arena, and there being no reason for any of them to stay there anyway. Like it was one of those Manager Gets The Boot For Being Annoying During Match Crowd Go YAY moments but it was well after the match. 

------------------
Backstage the Raw team (oh, this is a Raw v. SD show, then)…argue. I was gonna say something. Forgot. Might as well keep this here to emphasise that I didn’t know this was a brand feud PPV. Aren’t you glad you’re reading this?
------------------------


Cody Rhodes/Drew McIntyre v. John Cena/David Otunga
Barrett announcing Cena as Otunga’s partner got the most genuine response from Cody & McIntyre I could imagine. It was like they heard a toilet flushing to symbolise the future of their careers. Barrett says they’ll win the tag titles and he’ll win the WWE title tonight…..which means…..



Spoiler: !!!















NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Otunga spends a couple minutes getting beaten to death which was fun. Cody looked really good; had a fire about that I don’t usually see. Otunga sits the rest of the match after out tagging Cena in despite asking to be tagged in multiple times. It was fun watching Cena fuck with him, but at the same time it just put emphasis on Cena not needing help to squash the two tag champions. Squash is hyperbole. This was all right. Seeing Cena this early on the card is nice. Altough meaningless because he’d still go on to be the main event of Mania 27. And 28. And 29. NOT ADDING


Goldust v. Ted DiBiase
Hell no bitch, a Goldust a singles match! I forgot about the DiBiase and Maryse partnership. And the Goldust feud they had. And the Goldust/Aksana wedding. And Aksana being blonde. And Aksana existing. WAIT. Goldust and DiBiase had a really good sprint on SuperStars didn’t they!? Absolutely blanked on that. Look if you go to any one of my now many 2010 writey things, you can ctrl+F ‘Orton’, ‘Jericho’, or ‘Edge’, and see me sneezing shit. But I have just as much shit to sneeze for DiBiase, and you’d see it if he showed up more. I just don’t understand what he thinks while wrestling. I did not have kind words to say about the Bryan/Ziggler match but at least what they were doing were IDEAS. DiBiase is just stomp, punch, stomp, stomp, stomp, irish whip, punch, headlock. And for no good reason at all. And I want to make it clear that his lack of moveset is not what makes him crappy. I don’t even have to bring up a single wrestler to explain how moveset doesn't make the man; you know that. When I watch *disclosed wrestler* I’m like “yeah, he’s punching for a reason”, I see DiBiase stomp and I’m like “did he even want to be a wrestler?” He s just one guy I never, ever understood why anybody got behind. Edge, Jericho, Orton – they’ve all done interesting shit in their career, I may detest seeing them in 2010 but if you have fond memories of past stuff they’ve done you can be like “yeah, it’s that guy.” But this guy – nothing. This match was basically what I described (punch, stomp, irish whip) and Goldust wasn’t amazing like he usually is. I am struggling to find something to say about this specifically but it just feels like I watched nothing. Great, the only Goldust singles I’m likely to get no PPV and they’re using it to put this guy over. Well near the finish Maryse attacks Aksana for no reason and chucks her in the ring and Aksana literally fails to properly slide between the apron and the rope. I liked that. NOT ADDING.

Layla v. Natalya
I wish I appreciated LayCool more at the time. They weren’t afraid to show ass and they’d always inject a bunch of sub-high school bitch character work into their matches. Go back to that ‘moves for the sake of moves’ thing I said above to get updated thoughts on Natalya. Never cared for her and I’ve tried to change that. Both women took some tough bumps, I’ll always give Nattie credit for that, I guess. I mean I don’t think she sucks at everything I just think she’s doing stuff she’s not entirety capable of. Have her fight upwards without using ‘look at me, I’mma wrestler!’ stuff and you’d have something good. NOT ADDING.

Kane v. The Undertaker
Buried alive stupid ass stupid shit gimmick stupid. Annoyed that I had see Taker wasted on another Kane feud when he was one of the only things stopping me from going insane watching the earlier 2010 shows. But I’ll be damned if he isn’t trying the same at this point in the year. I’ll talk about the end parts now – the buried stuff was whatever, Nexus come in for some reason blah blah. But the rest of the match was fun and I’d call this legit good if it didn’t have to be handicapped with the silly gimmick. Like why not a casket match? Those are fine. The whole buried alive thing is so goofy to me. But screw it, Taker uses almost the entire match to get revenge on Kane and does so by punching him repeatedly in the face and throwing things everywhere and accidentally ripping barricade protection off because he’s angry and headbutting and going all around the arena and it was cool. The first bit of offense Kane got in was purely because Taker missed a punch. It was great, I’ve seen plenty of matches where one wrestler will miss a punch and the other wrestler isn’t sure whether to sell it or not so he’ll sell it too late and it’ll look ridiculous, but Kane instead took that advantage to punch Taker in the face himself. Kane whimpering away a couple times might look stupid if it was against anybody else but Taker has a way of changing how you at the wrestler he’s up against, in a way. Kane got his first real shot at anything but being demolished when he used chair Taker threw in the ring, which was, uh, neat. Uh, yeah, this was neat. NOT ADDING.

-------------------
Paused the video to write and wait I’m only half done? I’ve watched five matches, what the fuck takes up this next 1;20? Wait……



Spoiler: !!!















AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
--------------------------

The Miz/CM Punk/Sheamus/Santino Marella/John Morrison/Ezekiel Jackson/R-Truth v. The Big Show/Rey Mysterio/Jack Swagger/Tyler Reks/Kofi Kingston/Alberto Del Rio/Edge
If this has 14 people it might take up all of the time instead. Much better. OK, so Survivor Series would’ve been the next PPV after HIAC but they had to do this stupid one based around a multi-man tag match for brand supremacy? Instead of a multi-man tag match at Survivor Series which exists for multi-man tag matches? I don’t get why……IT, AT ALL. What does the winner team get? That crappy fuck ugly trophy? Fuck OUTTA here. 

Not fond of the line up, but at least it has Rey. Who is taken out by his own teammate and has to leave the match, which is like finding out the girl you like is dating the school’s biggest dickhead. The best part of the entire match was easily the Big Show first coming and rushing down Sheamus because they’re too many people down. Then they do some silly shit and both get counted out. You just will not give me a break, girl. Most of the match wasn’t very good. Morrison against Swagger and especially R-Truth provided some mediocre good-for-nothing, and Tyler Reks looked uncomfortable even being there. Kofi is apocalypse bad, duh. Edge was the last one in the match and I liked how the Miz didn’t come in until then to highlight what a son of a bitch he is. Rey coming back in and attacking Alberto and being inserted back into the match was like finding out the girl was dating the dickhead as a ruse to make you jealous. He does some OK stuff with Punk. Still it’s mainly Rey and Zeke, and the two of them not having a very good section was like dating the girl and finding out you two just don’t click. Because fuck a good analogy. NOT ADDING.
---------------------

The video package for the main event is almost entirely focused around Cena. Dunno what I expected. But hey, him being in the corner and continuing the Nexus Against Will story will distract from what’s going on the ring. All for it.

Randy Orton v. Wade Barrett feat. *JOHN CENA*
Your time was never, my time is now. You can see me, b/c you can’t see no one else, MY TIME IS NOW. God I was only kidding. Orton is the last guy I want to see on these shows but he’s still the WWE Champion; he shouldn’t feel like second fiddle. In short the match was boring, but I’m not angry at it. Maybe I should be because I was angry at Orton/Sheamus from the last show and this is the same boring kind of wrestling, and this had the added sin of the WWE Championship taking a backseat. Maybe it depends on my mood. I have hayfever and my left eye started to violently sting and leak and I thought it was funny because if anybody was around me I could have blamed it on the match being actually harmful to retina. Barrett chastising Cena a few times for not interfering - despite the fact that he would get DQed and said if he doesn’t win he’ll fire Cena – was stupid. Cena gets to interfere after the predictable ref bump and he stops the Nexus from interfering more than they have (who actually look like a decent threat considering they took out the Undertaker earlier on the show…...*scrolls up to make sure it was this show*). Barrett gets mad again and Cena explains that if the ref catches them Barrett’ll be DQed, which was actually cool. Then Cena AAs Barrett like a minute later. Huh? Oh, Barrett said if *loses* he’ll fire Cena, but didn’t mention the title. Randy Orton was also in the match. NOT ADDING

Overall thoughts: *explosion sound*


Current list:



Spoiler: WHATTUP?



1.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/30/10)
2.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (SmackDown 2/12/10)
3.	John Cena v. Batista (Extreme Rules 4/25/10)
4.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Over the Limit 5/23/10)
5.	The Miz v. Daniel Bryan (Night of Champions 9/19/10)
6.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 8/20/10)
7.	Jack Swagger v. Rey Mysterio (SmackDown 6/11/10)
8.	Christian v. William Regal (ECW 1/19/10)
9.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/16/10)
10.	Rey Mysterio v. Jack Swagger (Money in the Bank 7/18/10)
11.	Christian v. Ezekiel Jackson (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
12.	Rey Mysterio v. Mike Knox (SuperStars 2/18/10)
13.	Christian/Kane v. William Regal/Ezekiel Jackson (ECW 1/26/10)
14.	John Cena/Edge/Chris Jericho/Bret Hart/John Morrison/R-Truth/Daniel Bryan v. The Nexus (SummerSlam 8/15/10)
15.	Shawn Michaels v. The Undertaker (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
16.	William Regal v. Evan Bourne (SuperStars 3/4/10)
17.	Chris Jericho v. Evan Bourne (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
18.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Extreme Rules 4/29/10)
19.	The Undertaker v. Rey Mysterio (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
20.	Drew McIntyre v. Kaval (SmackDown 9/10/10)
21.	Christian v. William Regal (SuperStars 1/14/10)
22.	Kofi Kingston v. Drew McIntyre (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
23.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
24.	d
25.	d







Other contenders:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I don't get it. If anyone else applied headlocks for minutes a a time (especially Orton) everyone would say they're relying on restholds, but Owens does it and it's great? I'll go back and watch the rest of the match at some point, but I was watching last night & made it through 3 "commercial" breaks and was pretty bored so I just turned it off.

Andre The Giant Battle Royal is now on the preshow too. The main show is gonna be 4 hours and feature 7 matches. My goodness...


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

One day, you'll have to really explain to me the allure of watching all the ppvs of 2010. Might be one of my single least favorite years. At least you're reviews manage to make me laugh out loud at least twice, so that's good 

I'm catching up on this tremendous Funk/Hansen feud from AJPW. It's seemingly filled with endless singles matches and tag matches with Terry and Dory taking on Hansen and either Brody or now it appears Ted DiBiase has entered the fray. This is amazing stuff. It just sort of dawned on me, in 1982-1983, Terry is playing this ultra sympathetic baby face character in AJPW in his main event feud against the vicious, blood thirsty Hansen. Meanwhile, Terry is moonlighting as the most evil and psychotic bastard to ever grace Memphis Television in his main event feud with Lawler. Both feuds produced multiple all time classic matches. That has to be the only time that's ever happened in pro wrestling, right? No other wrestler has ever main evented in two territories simultaneously, as a baby face in one and a heel in the other, and produced all time classic matches in both of them, have they? I can't think of 1 single other instance where that has occurred. The closest thing would be Bret Hart in 1997 where he was a baby face one night in Canada, heel the next night in the US. But that was in the same territory feuding with the same group of guys, and while Brets ring work would change accordingly his character was essentially the same.

If it's true and no one else has done that, add one more + in the column for "Terry Funk might be the best to ever do it".

Aaaaaaand I just discovered a video for a Terry Funk vs Chris Benoit match 1994. Well then. This night is now complete.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> One day, you'll have to really explain to me the allure of watching all the ppvs of 2010. Might be one of my single least favorite years. At least you're reviews manage to make me laugh out loud at least twice, so that's good


I did the list for all of the awesome stuff on TV and decided I should get a 'complete' picture of the year by watching every PPV. Yeah, wasn't a good idea, but with a wipe of the forehead I can say I'm two shows away from ending it. There's another thing I've wanted to do for months and months that I'll start after TLC. I'll still watch the 2010 TV stuff, though. I'd like to finish this list. It'd be the first wrestling list I ever finished other than the WCW poll.

Lawler was a face in USWA and a heel in WWF around 92/93, whenever he first showed up there. The Lawler/Jarrett v. Moondogs feud looks amazing but I think we only have one full match (which is a fucking great brawl, btw). He was fun in WWF but IDK if he ever really got all that much time to work his magic. There's a Tito Santana match from 93 that got hype a few years ago, but I never saw it.

Laptop is kind of running out space so I go to check the biggest files on the computer...and it turns out I have the entire 2008 ECW calender year downloaded. Uhhhh......this will have to be another list someday.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

In a little honor to probably the _least_ heralded member of this year's HOF class, I caught a couple Tatsumi Fujinami v. Chavo Guerrero Sr. on the youtube. Really nice matches with excellent chain wrestling building the crowd into a fever pitch. There's a brutal Suicide Dive onto *nothing* from Fujinami, b/c CHAVO~!

I recommend them both - you see the old Guerrero vibe, but also the fire and skill of Fujinami - inventor of one of the most awesome suplex variations ever (Full Nelson) - and others as well. Supreme white-meat Japanese babyface! Here's the 10/20/78:


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Speaking of 1978, and if you're on a Fujinami tip, please give his match against brother Mando Guerrero a watch







Then, because it's so good, get involved here.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wow, BR 2010 review? More like RANT :lol That was hilarious man. Though I don't really agree much, if at all, on your thoughts on Bryan/Ziggler - thought it was supposed to be wrestled THAT way after all since both men were meant to look equals w/the whole "IC vs US champ" dynamic and whatnot, Bryan kicking Ziggler around was fun to watch, and... I don't know, I just had tons of fun w/it - but we'll simply agree to disagree. SVS will be far less painful (except for the WHC match), especially given how you didn't seem to absolutely despise the BR Main Event... more or less. Did you?

Oh and you people talking about gems from Terry Funk? Sub 10 minute match vs Eddie Guerrero in '89 springs to mind. Eddie's NWA/WCW debut, and watching him frustrate dominant bastard Funk around was quite the fun spectacle.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Plodded through Owens/Balor (while having to keep myself awake with chocolates). Waste of time (but the chocolates were good).


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Despite my persistance to watch a lot of different stuff I've mentioned or others have mentioned, it's so close to Wrestlemania I'm in a mood to watch everything wrestlemania. I know that this is maybe hard to do, but how people rate ALL wrestlemanias? Top to bottom if possible 

there are some wrestlemanias im sure i havent watched

1-9 i know for sure i havent watched these, or if i have only bit matches on a tv show or something. 

i've seen 15,16,17,19 quite a lot. 14 mainly Austin, but dont think I watched the whole card. 13 mainly because of Austin vs Bret Hart but again dont think i watched the whole card. 20 i have but not the whole card again due to a lot of disappointment (albeit dat triple threat), 21 is the one with batista/hhh and cena/jnl right? hbk/angle? again not much since it aired. 22 onwards inconsistent viewing, watched 30 just for Bryan, 29 only for punk/undertaker mainly, i watched the punk/orton match from whatever wrestlemania that was too


:lmao at yeahs review


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well as long as the chocolates were good, I'd say your time was well spent .

Watched Jiz/Bryan the other day. Match rules still. Between that and the TLC with Lawler, Jiz reached his peak in 2010 and hasn't even come close to being remotely good ever again (NOTE: haven't seen the Raw match with Cena that people praise).

So WM is days away. Moving on...

Nash is a fucking hypocrite. Watched his Timeline of WWF 1995 shoot the other day and he states he would NEVER go in the HOF before his "boy" Rick Rude. Well, Rude ain't in yet, big man.



King Kenny said:


> Despite my persistance to watch a lot of different stuff I've mentioned or others have mentioned, it's so close to Wrestlemania I'm in a mood to watch everything wrestlemania. I know that this is maybe hard to do, but how people rate ALL wrestlemanias? Top to bottom if possible






Spoiler: WM Rankings



WrestleMania 2 - 0.5
WrestleMania IV - 1
WrestleMania XV - 2
WrestleMania V - 2
WrestleMania VI - 4.5
WrestleMania 1 - 4.5
WrestleMania IX - 5
WrestleMania XI - 6
WrestleMania III - 6.5
WrestleMania XIV - 7
WrestleMania XII - 7.5
WrestleMania VIII - 8.5
WrestleMania 2000 - 10
WrestleMania 23 - 11.5
WrestleMania X - 11.5
WrestleMania 27 - 12
WrestleMania XX - 12.5
WrestleMania 29 - 13.5
WrestleMania VII - 13.5
WrestleMania X8 - 14.5
WrestleMania 13 - 14.5
WrestleMania 26 - 15.5
WrestleMania 28 - 16
WrestleMania XXX - 16
WrestleMania 24 - 18
WrestleMania 21 - 19
WrestleMania 25 - 20
WrestleMania 22 - 20.5
WrestleMania X7 - 23
WrestleMania XIX - 29.5

WrestleMania 1 - 4.5

Tito Santana Vs The Executioner - * - 0
S.D. Jones Vs King Kong Bundy - DUD - 0
Matt Bourne Vs Ricky Steamboat - ** - 0.5
David Sammartino Vs Brutus Beefcake - *** - 2
Greg Valentine Vs Junkyard Dog - *1/2 - 0.5
Barry Windham & Mike Rotundo Vs Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff - ** - 0.5
Big John Studd Vs Andre The Giant - DUD - 0
Leilani Kai Vs Wendi Richter - *1/2 - 0.5
Hulk Hogan & Mr T Vs Roddy Piper & Paul Orndorff - ** - 0.5


WrestleMania 2 - 0.5

Paul Orndorff Vs The Magnificent Muraco - DUD - 0
Randy Savage Vs George The Animal Steele - DUD - 0
Jake Roberts Vs George Wells - 1/4* - 0
Roddy Piper Vs Mr T - 1/4* - 0
The Fabulous Moolah Vs Velvet McIntyre - NO - -1
Nikolai Volkoff Vs Corporal Kirishner - NO - -1
20 Man Battle Royal: WWF Vs NFL - DUD - 0
The British Bulldogs Vs Brutus Beefcake & Greg Valentine - *** - 2
Ricky Steamboat Vs Hercules Hernandez - ** - 0.5
Adorable Adrian Adonis Vs Uncle Elma - NO - -1
Tito Santana & Junkyard Dog Vs Terry & Hoss Funk - ** - 0.5
Hulk Hogan Vs King Kong Bundy - ** - 0.5


WrestleMania III - 6.5

The Magnificent Muraco & Bob Orton Jr Vs The Can-Am Connection - *1/2 - 0.5
Billy Jack Haynes Vs Hercules - * - 0
King Kong Bundy, Little Tokyo & Lord Littlebrook Vs Hillbilly Jim, Little Beaver & The Haiti Kid - NO - -1
Harley Race Vs Junkyard Dog - 1/4* - 0
The Rougeau Brothers Vs Brutus Beefcake & Greg Valentine - DUD - 0
Roddy Piper Vs Adrian Adonis - 1/2* - 0
The Hart Foundation & Danny Davis Vs The British Bulldogs & Tito Santana - * - 0
Butch Reed Vs Koko B Ware - DUD - 0
Randy Savage Vs Ricky Steamboat - ****1/4 - 6
Jake Roberts Vs The Honky Tonk Man - **1/2 - 1
Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff Vs The Killer Bees - DUD - 0
Hulk Hogan Vs Andre The Giant - 1/4* - 0 


WrestleMania IV - 1

20 Man Battle Royal - 1/2* - 0
Hacksaw Jim Duggan Vs Ted DiBiase - * - 0
Dino Bravo Vs Don Muraco - 1.4* - 0
Ricky Steamboat Vs greg Valentine - **3/4 - 1
Randy Savage Vs Butch Reed - DUD - 0
Bam Bam Bigelow Vs One Man Gang - * - 0
Rick Rude Vs Jake Roberts - ***1/4 - 2
The Ultimate Warrior Vs Hercules - NO - -1
Hulk Hogan Vs Andre The Giant - NO - -1
Ted DiBiase Vs Don Muraco - 1/4* - 0
Randy Savage Vs Greg Valentine - **3/4 - 1
The Honky Tonk Man Vs Brutus The Barber Beefcake - NO - -1
The British Bulldogs & Koko B Ware Vs The Islanders & Bobby Heenan - DUD - 0
One Man Gang Vs Randy Savage - * - 0
Demolition Vs Strike Force - DUD - 0
Ted DiBiase Vs Randy Savage - * - 0


WrestleMania V - 2

Haku Vs Hercules - NO - -1
The Rockers Vs The Twin Towers - **- 0.5
Ted DiBiase Vs Brutus The Barber Beefcake - NO - -1
The Fabulous Rougeau Brothers Vs The Bushwhackers - NO - -1
Mr Perfect Vs The Blue Blazer - *3/4 - 0.5
Demolition Vs Powers of Pain & Mr Fuji - DUD - 0
Dino Bravo Vs Ronnie Garvin - 1/2* - 0
The Brainbusters Vs Strike Force - *** - 2
Andre The Giant Vs Jake Roberts - DUD - 0
The Hart Foundation Vs Greg Valentine & The Honky Tonk Man - * - 0
Rick Rude Vs The Ultimate Warrior - DUD - 0
Bad News Brown Vs Hacksaw Jim Duggan - NO - -1
Bobby Heenan Vs The Red Rooster - DUD - 0
Randy Savage Vs Hulk Hogan - ***1/2 - 3


WrestleMania VI - 4.5

Koko B Ware Vs Rick Martel - DUD - 0
Demolition Vs Andre The Giant & Haku - DUD - 0
Earthquake Vs Hercules - DUD - 0
Mr Perfect Vs Brutus The Barber Beefcake - 3/4* - 0
Rowdy Roddy Piper Vs Bad News Brown - DUD - 0
The Hart Foundation Vs The Bolsheviks - DUD - 0
Tito Santana Vs The Barbarian - NO - -1
Randy Savage & Sensational Sherry Vs Dusty Rhodes & Sapphire - NO - -1
The Rockers Vs The Orient Express - ***1/4 - 2
Dino Bravo Vs Hacksaw Jim Duggan - NO - -1
Ted DiBiase Vs Jake Roberts - *** - 2
Akeem Vs The Big Bossman - ** - 0.5
Rick Rude Vs Jimmy Snuka - NO - -1
Hulk Hogan Vs The Ultimate Warrior - ***3/4 - 5


WrestleMania VII - 13.5

The Rockers Vs Haku & Barbarian - *** - 2
Kerry Von Eric Vs Dino Bravo - 1/2* - 0
The Warlord Vs The British Bulldog - 1/4* - 0
The Nasty Boys Vs The Hart Foundation - ***1/2 - 3
Rick Martel Vs Jake Roberts - * - 0
The Undertaker Vs Jimmy Snuka - * - 0
Randy Savage Vs The Ultimate Warrior - ****1/2 - 7
Koji Kitao & Genichiro Tenryu Vs Demolition - * - 0
Mr Perfect Vs The Big Bossman - ** - 0.5
Earthquake Vs Greg Valentine - 1/4* - 0
The Legion of Doom Vs Power & Glory - 1/4* - 0
Ted DiBiase Vs Virgil - * - 0
Tito Santana Vs The Mountie - NO - -1
Sgt Slaughter Vs Hulk Hogan - *** - 2


WrestleMania VIII - 8.5

El Matador Vs Shawn Michaels - **1/2 - 1
The Undertaker Vs Jake Roberts - ** - 0.5
Bret Hart Vs Rowdy Roddy Piper - ***3/4 - 4
The Big Bossman, Sgt Slaughter, Hacksaw Jim Duggan & Virgil Vs The Nasty Boys, The Mountie & Repo Man - ** - 0.5
Ric Flair Vs Randy Savage - ***1/2 - 3
Rick Martel Vs Tatanka - NO - -1
Money Incorporated Vs The Natural Disasters - DUD - 0
Owen Hart Vs The Skinner - DUD - 0
Hulk Hogan Vs Sid Justice - ** - 0.5


WrestleMania IX - 5

Shawn Michaels Vs Tatanka - ** - 0.5
The Steiner Brothers Vs The Head Shrinkers - ***1/2 - 3
Crush Vs Doink - 1/2* - 0
Razor Ramon Vs Bob Backlund - DUD - 0
Money Incorporated Vs The Mega Maniacs - DUD - 0
Mr Perfect Vs Lex Luger - ** - 0.5
The Undertaker Vs The Giant Gonzalez - 3/4* - 0
Bret Hart Vs Yokozuna - **1/2 - 1
Yokozuna Vs Hulk Hogan - DUD - 0


WrestleMania X - 11.5

Bret Hart Vs Owen Hart - ****3/4 - 8
Bam Bam Bigelow & Luna Vachon Vs Doink & Dink The Clowns - NO - -1
Randy Savage Vs Crush - DUD - 0
Alundra Blayze Vs Leilani Kai - NO - -1
Men on a Mission Vs The Mounties - DUD - 0
Yokozuna Vs Lex Luger - DUD - 0
Earthquake Vs Adam Bomb - DUD - 0
Razor Ramon Vs Shawn Michaels - **** - 5
Yokozuna Vs Bret Hart - ** - 0.5


WrestleMania XI - 6

Lex Luger & The British Bulldog Vs The Blues Brothers - NO - -1
Jeff Jarrett Vs Razor Ramon - *** - 2
The Undertaker Vs King Kong Bundy - 1/2* - 0
The Smoking Gunns Vs Owen Hart & Yokozuna - **1/2 - 1
Bob Backlund Vs Bret Hart - DUD - 0
Diesel Vs Shawn Michaels - ***1/2 - 3
Bam Bam Bigelow Vs Laurence Taylor - **1/4 - 1


WrestleMania XII - 7.5

Vader, Owen Hart & The British Bulldog Vs Yokozuna, Jake Roberts & Ahmed Johnson - *** - 2
Rowdy Roddy Piper Vs Goldust - **1/2 - 1
Steve Austin Vs Savio Vega - * - 0
Hunter Heart Helmsley Vs The Ultimate Warrior - DUD - 0
The Undertaker Vs Diesel - ***3/4 - 4
Bret Hart Vs Shawn Michaels - *1/2 - 0.5


WrestleMania 13 - 14.5

The Godwinns Vs The Headbangers Vs The New Blackjacks Vs Phil Lafon & Doug Fernas - ** - 0.5
The Sultan Vs Rocky Maivia - DUD - 0
Hunter Hearst Helmsley Vs Goldust - * - 0
Vader & Mankind Vs Owen Hart & The British Bulldog - ***1/2 - 3
Bret Hart Vs Steve Austin - ***** - 9
Faarooq, Savio vega & Crush Vs Ahmed Johnson & The Legion of Doom - *** - 2
Sid Vs The Undertaker - **3/4 - 1


WrestleMania XIV - 7

15 Team Battle Royal - DUD - 0
Taka Michinoku Vs Aguila - ** - 0.5
Triple H Vs Owen Hart - *1/2 - 0.5
The Artist Formally Known As Goldust & Luna Vachon Vs Marc Mero & Sable - NO - -1
The Rock Vs Ken Shamrock - * - 0
The New Age Outlaws Vs Terry Funk & Cactus Jack - **3/4 - 1
The Undertaker Vs Kane - **** - 5
Shawn Michaels Vs Steve Austin - **3/4 - 1



WrestleMania XV - 2

Al Snow Vs Hardcore Holly Vs Billy Gunn - * - 0
Owen Hart & Jeff Jarrett Vs D-Lo Brown & Test - DUD - 0
Butterbean Vs Bart Gunn - DUD - 0
The Big Show Vs Mankind - * - 0
Road Dogg Vs Ken Shamrock Vs Val Venis Vs Goldust - ** - 0.5
Triple H Vs Kane - ** - 0.5
Sable Vs Tori - NO - -1
Shane McMahon Vs X-Pac - **1/2 - 1
The Undertaker Vs The Big Bossman - DUD - 0
The Rock Vs Steve Austin - **1/4 - 1


WrestleMania 2000 - 10

D-Lo Brown & The Godfather Vs The Big Bossman & Bull Buchanan - *3/4 - 0.5
15 Minute Time Limit Hardcore Battle Royal - **3/4 - 1
Al Snow & Steve Blackman Vs T & A - **3/4 - 1
The Hardy Boys Vs The Dudley Boys Vs Edge & Christian - ****1/4 - 6
The Kat Vs Terri Runnels - NO - -1
Eddie Guerrero, Dean Malenko & Perry Saturn Vs 2 Cool & Chyna - * - 0
Kurt Angle Vs Chris Benoit Vs Chris Jericho - 1/2* - 0
Road Dogg & X-Pac Vs Kane & Rikishi - *1/2 - 0.5
Triple H Vs Mick Foley Vs The Rock Vs The Big Show - ***1/4 - 2


WrestleMania X7 - 23

Chris Jericho Vs William Regal - **3/4 - 1
APA & Tazz Vs Right to Censor - *3/4 - 0.5
Raven Vs The Big Show Vs Kane - *** - 2
Eddie Guerrero Vs Test - ** - 0.5
Kurt Angle Vs Chris Benoit - ***1/4 - 2
Ivory Vs Chyna - NO - -1
Vince McMahon Vs Shane McMahon - *** - 2
The Hardy Boys Vs The Dudley Boys Vs Edge & Christian - ***1/2 - 3
Gimmick Battle Royal - * - 0
The Undertaker Vs Triple H - ****1/4 - 6
The Rock Vs Steve Austin - ****1/2 - 7


WrestleMania X8 - 14.5

Rob Van Dam Vs William Regal - *** - 2
Christian Vs DDP - *** - 2
Goldust Vs Maven - * - 0
Kurt Angle Vs Kane - **3/4 - 1
The Undertaker Vs Ric Flair - ****1/4 - 6
Edge Vs Booker T - NO - -1
Steve Austin Vs Scott Hall - * - 0
The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys Vs APA Vs Billy & Chuck - *** - 2
Hulk Hogan Vs The Rock - *** - 2
Jazz Vs Trish Stratus Vs Lita - * - 0
Chris Jericho Vs Triple H - ** - 0.5


WrestleMania XIX - 29.5

Matt Hardy Vs Rey Mysterio - ***1/2 - 3
The Undertaker Vs The Big Show & A-Train - **3/4 - 1
Victoria Vs Trish Stratus Vs Jazz - ** - 0.5
Team Angle Vs Los Guerreros Vs Rhyno & Chris Benoit - ***3/4 - 4
Chris Jericho Vs Shawn Michaels - ****1/4 - 6
Triple H Vs Booker T - ***3/4 - 4
Vince McMahon Vs Hulk Hogan - 1/2* - 0
The Rock Vs Steve Austin - ****1/2 - 7
Kurt Angle Vs Brock Lesnar - **** - 5


WrestleMania XX - 12.5

The Big Show Vs John Cena - *** - 2
La Resistance Vs Booker T & RVD Vs Jindrak & Cade Vs The Dudley Boys - 1/2* - 0
Chris Jericho Vs Christian - **** - 5
Mick Foley & The Rock Vs Ric Flair, Batista & Randy Orton - * - 0
Sable & Torrie Wilson Vs Miss Jackie & Stacy Keibler - NO - -1
Tajiri Vs Shannon Moore Vs Ultimo Dragon Vs Rey Mysterio Vs Nunzio Vs Chavo Guerrero Jr Vs Billy Kidman Vs Jamie Noble Vs Akia - ** - 0.5
Goldberg Vs Brock Lesnar - DUD - 0
Rikishi & Scotty 2 Hotty Vs The Basham Brothers Vs The Self Proclaimed World's Greatest Tag Team Vs APA - 3/4* - 0
Molly Holly Vs Victoria - NO - -1
Eddie Guerrero Vs Kurt Angle - * - 0
The Undertaker Vs Kane - **1/2 - 1
Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels Vs Chris Benoit - ****1/4 - 6


WrestleMania 21 - 19

Eddie Guerrero Vs Rey Mysterio - * - 0
Chris Jericho Vs Christian Vs Chris Benoit Vs Kane Vs Shelton Benjamin Vs Edge - ****1/2 - 7
The Undertaker Vs Randy Orton - ****1/4 - 6
Trish Stratus Vs Christy Hemme - NO - -1
Shawn Michaels Vs Kurt Angle - ****1/2 - 7
The Big Show Vs Akebono - NO - -1
John Bradshaw Layfield Vs John Cena - DUD - 0
Triple H Vs Batista - **1/2 - 1


WrestleMania 22 - 20.5

The Big Show & Kane Vs Carlito & Chris Masters - **1/2 - 1
Matt Hardy Vs Ric Flair Vs Finlay Vs Lashley Vs Shelton Benjamin Vs RVD - ** - 0.5
John Bradshaw Layfield Vs Chris Benoit - ***1/2 - 3
Mick Foley Vs Edge - ****1/2 - 7
Booker T Vs The Boogeyman - NO - -1
Trish Stratus Vs Mickie James - ***1/2 - 3
The Undertaker Vs Mark Henry - **1/2 - 1
Shawn Michaels Vs Vince McMahon - *** - 2
Kurt Angle Vs Randy Orton Vs Rey Mysterio - * - 0
Candice Michelle Vs Torrie Wilson - NO - -1
John Cena Vs Triple H - ***3/4 - 4


WrestleMania 23 - 11.5

Jeff Hardy Vs Mr Kennedy Vs Matt Hardy Vs Edge Vs Randy Orton Vs King Booker Vs CM Punk Vs Finlay - **1/2 - 1
Kane Vs The Great Khali - NO - -1
Chris Benoit Vs MVP - **3/4 - 1
The Undertaker Vs Batista - ****1/2 - 7
RVD, Tommy Dreamer, The Sandman & Sabu Vs Elijah Burke, Marcus Cor Von, Matt Striker & Kevin Thorn - NO - -1
Umaga Vs Bobby Lashley - ** - 0.5
Melina Vs Ashley - NO - -1
John Cena Vs Shawn Michaels - **** - 5


WrestleMania 24 - 18

Finlay Vs John Bradshaw Layfield - *** - 2
John Morrison Vs Shelton Benjamin Vs CM Punk Vs Mr Kennedy Vs MVP Vs Carlito Vs Chris Jericho - ***1/4 - 2
Batista Vs Umaga - 1/2* - 0
Chavo Guerrero Jr Vs Kane - * - 0
Shawn Michaels Vs Ric Flair - ***1/2 - 3
Ashley & Maria Vs Melina & Beth Phoenix - NO - -1
Randy Orton Vs John Cena Vs Triple H - ***1/4 - 2
The Big Show Vs Floyd Mayweather - ***1/2 - 3
The Undertaker Vs Edge - ****1/2 - 7


WrestleMania 25 - 20

CM Punk Vs Mark Henry Vs MVP Vs Finlay Vs Shelton Benjamin Vs Kofi Kingston Vs Christian Vs Kane - ***3/4 - 4
Miss WrestleMania Battle Royal - NO - -1
Chris Jericho Vs Jimmy Snuka, Roddy Piper & Ricky Steamboat - *** - 2
Jeff Hardy Vs Matt Hardy - ***1/2 - 3
John Bradshaw Layfield Vs Rey Mysterio - DUD - 0
The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - ***** - 9
Edge Vs John Cena Vs The Big Show - ***1/2 - 3
Triple H Vs Randy Orton - * - 0


WrestleMania 26 - 15.5

R-Truth & John Morrison Vs The Big Show & The Miz - ** - 0.5
Ted DiBiase Vs Cody Rhodes Vs Randy Orton - * - 0
Kofi Kingston Vs Jack Swagger Vs Christian Vs MVP Vs Shelton Benjamin Vs Drew McIntyre Vs Matt Hardy Vs Dolph Ziggler Vs Kane Vs Evan Bourne - ** - 0.5
Sheamus Vs Triple H - *** - 2
CM Punk Vs Rey Mysterio - ***1/4 - 2
Vince McMahon Vs Bret Hart - NO - -1
Chris Jericho Vs Edge - ** - 0.5
Michelle McCool, Vickie Guerrero, Alicia Fox, Layla & Maryse Vs Beth Phoenix, Kelly Kelly, Mickie James, Gail Kim & Eve Torres - NO - -1
John Cena Vs Batista - **3/4 - 1
The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - ***** - 9 + GOAT WM Match - 2 = 11


WrestleMania 27 - 12

Edge Vs Alberto Del Rio - **1/2 - 1
Cody Rhodes Vs Rey Mysterio - **** - 5
The Corre Vs The Big Show, Kane, Santino Marella & Kofi Kingston - NO - -1
CM Punk Vs Randy Orton - **1/2 - 1
Jerry Lawler Vs Michael Cole - NO - -1
The Undertaker Vs Triple H - ****3/4 - 8
John Morrison, Trish Stratus & Snookie Vs LayCool & Dolph Ziggler - NO - -1
The Miz Vs John Cena - 1/4* - 0


WrestleMania 28 - 16

Daniel Bryan Vs Sheamus - DUD - 0
Kane Vs Randy Orton - *** - 2
Cody Rhodes Vs The Big Show - * - 0
Kelly Kelly & Maria Menounos Vs Beth Phoenix & Eve - NO - -1
The Undertaker Vs Triple H - ****3/4 - 8
Team Johnny: David Otunga, Dolph Ziggler, Jack Swagger, Drew McIntyre, Mark Henry & The Miz Vs Team Teddy: Santino Marella, Kofi Kongston, R-Truth, The Great Khali, Booker T & Zack Ryder – NO - -1
CM Punk Vs Chris Jericho - ****1/2 - 7
John Cena Vs The Rock - **1/4 - 1


WrestleMania 29 - 13.5

The Shield Vs Sheamus, The Big Show & Randy Orton - ***1/2 - 3
Mark Henry Vs Ryback - *1/2 - 0.5
Team Hell No Vs Dolph Ziggler & Big E Langston - **1/2 - 1
Chris Jericho Vs Fandango - **1/2 - 1
Alberto Del Rio Vs Jack Swagger - **1/2 - 1
The Undertaker Vs CM Punk - ****1/4 - 6
Triple H Vs Brock Lesnar - **3/4 - 1
The Rock Vs John Cena - * - 0


WrestleMania 30 - 16

Daniel Bryan Vs Triple H - **** - 5
Kane & The New Age Outlaws Vs The Shield - ** - 0.5
30 Man Over The Top Rope Andre The Giant Memorial Battle Royal - ** - 0.5
John Cena Vs Bray Wyatt - ***3/4 - 4
The Undertaker Vs Brock Lesnar - ***3/4 - 4
Vickie Guerrero Diva Championship Invitational Match - 1/2* - 0
Randy Orton Vs Batista Vs Daniel Bryan - *** - 2


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i'm very curious of british bulldog stuff, hogan/sid, bam bam main eventing :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

@King Kenny WRASSLEMANIA RANTINGS ACCORDING TO MOAH:

17 > 19 > 24 > 30 > 22 > 7 > 18 > 21 > 26 > 8 > 25 > 20 > 10 > 28 > 29 > 23 > 5 > 12 > 3 > 14 > 13 > 16 > 27 > 6 > 1 > 4 > 9 > 2 > 15 > 11

To further help you out: 1 through 9 is VERY inconsistent. 7 is one of my all-time favorite Manias; Savage/Warrior is nearly perfect and a whole lot of fun gems to boot; 8 has two great matches (Piper/Bret and Flair/Savage) and some fun stuff; 5 is underrated as all shit w/a great ME (Savage/Hogan) and some other fun undercard gems (i.e. Rockers/ToT and Perfect/Blazer). Rest is mostly one match shows or entirely average at best cards. Recommend you check out Savage/Steamboat from 3, Hogan/Warrior from 6 and Steiners/Headshrinkers from 9 out of those.

10 has two classics (you know them); 11 is the WOAT don't ever watch that; 12 is average. 13 is the GOAT wrestling match + two other good matches, and the rest is pure TRASH. Some folks here like Sid/Taker, but for myself it was just boring and uninspired. 14 is mostly mediocre, though watch Taker/Kane if you haven't. 20 has DAT Triple Threat and some other good stuff, but yeah, it's overall a dissapointing if still enjoyable show. 21 is awesome up until HBK/Angle (which is FAR, FAR from a ***** classic but I still admire it. I digress tho). 22 onwards you missed a good bunch: I URGE you to watch 22 and 24 top to bottom; 23 is worth it for the two Main Events (Batista/Taker and Cena/HBK); 25 is among the most underrated shows of all time (yeah it has three really bad matches, but the rest of the show is highly enjoyable); 26 is pretty damn consistent through and has the best WM Main Event; 28 has, again, two classics in it (HIAC and Punk/Jericho); 29 is consistent in mediocrity but it's not bad. 27 can go fuck itself.

EDIT: Oh, and none of the Bulldog stuff is all that good (Bulldogs/Dream Team is good, the rest is meh'ish); Hogan/Sid kinda sucks; Bam Bam ME's against LT in one of the worst ME's (good effort by both, but I just didn't give a shit).


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

WrestleMan'a Play
Forgot it was this Sunday
Has Potential, Eh?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> WrestleMan'a Play
> Forgot it was this Sunday
> Has Potential, Eh?


Well, could this be the first ever HAIKU in the DVD thread? :lmao


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i've decided to watch wrestlemania 7

debut of Undertaker :mark:

some of the matches on this card :mark:


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Something happened to me just now that made me, for the first time, hate the Network. I was watching Raven/Jericho and I realized they piped in his WWE theme song. What the actual fuck? Makes me wonder if they started censoring the word "Benoit" now.


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

Just watched Taker vs HBK from WM 26. I've never liked this match. I think their match at 25 is the best in WWF/E history.

8 minutes in, Taker chokeslam and a 2 count. couple minutes later, tombstone on floor. couple minutes later, last ride and 2 count. couple minutes later, superkick and a 2 count. couple mins later, moonsault through the announce table. couple mins later, superkick countered into chokeslam. a minute later, tombstone, 2 count. 3-4 minutes later with no moves in between is the jumping tombstone.

What a shit match. Just a bunch of laying around and finishers/high spots. Most overrated pile of trash ever.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 26 match > WM 25 match .

And their HIAC match shits over every other match in the history of existence .

#WVWMWeek starts today on my BLOG~! with my thoughts and predictions on WM 31. HOF 2morrow! Then I have a video of me booking my own version of WM 31 on Sunday, and finishing off the (4 day) week with a ramble on WM 31 on Monday! Yey! Woo! Awesomes!!!


----------



## Nasty_Magician (Mar 27, 2015)

Wrestlemania XII, Iron Man match is what got me hooked on wrestling. I liked it prior to that but Shawn Michaels coming in on the zip line was all it took for 8 year old me to be locked in.


----------



## TheChoppingMachine (Mar 25, 2014)

I need to rewatch that Ziggler vs Bryan. Haven't seen it since then, I remember thinking it was okay/good but I was surprised when peoples talked about it at the end of the year on MOTY discussions.
Haven't seen this Taker vs HBK since a long time too but until I do it's still a ***** to me 



JustJoel said:


> *Looks at Sig* *Looks at my post count*
> 
> Nah, will never happen


What kind of fucker have a Muta sig?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

King Kenny said:


> i've decided to watch wrestlemania 7
> 
> debut of Undertaker :mark:
> 
> some of the matches on this card :mark:


Not to be that guy but Taker debuted at SVS 1991 

Geeze I just read all of Cal's ratings for WM and man either I'm way easier to please than he is or he's just an old curmudgeon . Well, unless it's that god awful WM 27 Taker match or that pretty mediocre WM 28 Taker match, but we don't need to go there. Just know that I didn't know it was possible for people to not enjoy themselves watching Hogan/Vince WM 19. The only 2 matches my GF has ever watched and was visibly enthralled/wanted to watch them again immediately have been Brock/Rey SD! 2003, and Vince/Hogan WM 19. But eh, different strokes for different folks I guess.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Pretty sure he meant Undertaker's WM debut .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> Pretty sure he meant Undertaker's WM debut .


fpalm.

I'm such an idiot. I'm sentencing myself to watching Taker/Trips WM 27 and this time I'm going to force myself to like it. Although the 2 other times I've watched it, for the first 10 min or so I've said "Hey this isn't so bad, it's actually pretty good! Wonder why I didn't like it?" And then the finishers start coming, and the endless laying around, and I end up saying "Oh."


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> fpalm.
> 
> I'm such an idiot. I'm sentencing myself to watching Taker/Trips WM 27 and this time I'm going to force myself to like it. Although the 2 other times I've watched it, for the first 10 min or so I've said "Hey this isn't so bad, it's actually pretty good! Wonder why I didn't like it?" And then the finishers start coming, and the endless laying around, and I end up saying "Oh."


I'm the opposite. The first 10 minutes made me want to kill myself, and made me question why I wouldn't just turn the damn thing off....but the rest was brill and riveting, IMO.

And yes, Cal, Shawn/Taker WM26 > WM25.

Also, looking at Cal's ratings, those early WM really seemed to have sucked.

Made me want to rewatch WM8 again, though.

Sid's badass entrance, despite having no pomp and circumstances. :mark:

The PPV debut of the Shawn/Sherri tandem. :mark:

Piper/Bret & Flair/Savage. :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> fpalm.
> 
> I'm such an idiot. I'm sentencing myself to watching Taker/Trips WM 27 and this time I'm going to force myself to like it. Although the 2 other times I've watched it, for the first 10 min or so I've said "Hey this isn't so bad, it's actually pretty good! Wonder why I didn't like it?" And then the finishers start coming, and the endless laying around, and I end up saying "Oh."


You get the great entrance themes at least. Unless you watch on the Network or on DVD of course. :no:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

WM 28 TAKER VS HHH IS *NOT* MEDIOCRE. IT'S AFUCKINGMAZING. WHEN WILL PEOPLE EVER UNDERSTAND THAT?!!! Now I understand what Cal feels when talking about Austin/Taker Backlash '02 :side:

But anyway. I decided to do something insane. And if insane's the word, then SHIELD has to come to mind. I went ahead and rewatched what I feel is the only Shield match that has ever truly let me down - Shield/Evolution at Payback. I really, really, really wanted to enjoy it this time, at least more than on first and second viewings (which were very close to each other, nearing a year now).

Well, on third viewing.... I am still debating wheater or not did I really like it. On one hand, I just cannot commend the booking of having three eliminations in the row in the last moments of a 30 MINUTE MATCH, nor can I commend the idea of doing a traditional tag match for about half of a match w/a NO HOLDS BARRED STIP. Completely killed the flow created by the crazy ass beggining of the match, which I really liked, and completely killed the purpose (or lack of there of) of the stip for half of its entirety. The bigger spots in the match (like Rollins jumping off the tron) were way too predictable (and before you say "Of course motherfucker, you already watched this before", even my girlfriend saw them coming on FIRST VIEWING LAST YEAR, so stfu). And the crowd, asides from near the end and whatnot, was pretty dead all the way through which made the slower moments even more boring to sit through.

THAT BEING SAID... I liked the good things in it more than last times I had watched it, I do admit that. The performances by the three Shield members were just masterful. Reigns' 2nd best showing ever behind EC 2014, I'd say. Evolution weren't so great, but they fulfilled their roles. The match really felt like it had a very gang-warfare-in-the-middle-of-the-jungle feel to it if anything, w/everybody really trying to destroy the ever loving crap out of each other w/lots of stalking inbetween, like predators eyeing their prey. The pre-normal tag stuff was fun as hell (Dat TV shot, Rollins is insane). Spots, despite predictability, came off looking good (and it's not like they were spots for the sake of it anyway). Hell, even the normal tag stuff was done pretty competently, w/the faces being good at being faces and the heels being... boring, but again, competent in their character work. And both Reigns taking a Triple Powerbomb (which I would've personally booked to happen a year prior in the Hell No & Orton SD match where they lost for the first time, but better late than never) and THE PASSION OF THE REIGNS are probably among my favorite moments in any Shield match ever.

So, overall, I still don't know wheater I think this match is totally mediocre, or actually good w/some massive flaws that hinder it from being a classic, worthy of their Extreme Rules predecessor. Stars would probably go now for the **3/4-*** range. But despite the increase in rating, it's still one of my least favorite Shield matches ever. Go figure.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I meant "And yes, Cal, Shawn/Taker WM26 > WM25." Dammit. fpalm

Taker/H WM28 was laughable to me. It's weird how most people consider that a better match than WM27. It had more of an entertainment value, so I can see why it would hold the attention of people more...but it honestly totally missed the mark for me. I literally was LOL'ing during it. Just so OTT.

Maybe I'll watch it again soon some time.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

When i got the Shield Blu-Ray, i was surprised to see they included the Payback match and not the ER one, esp considering Rollins' spot.

Need to rewatch both soon, plus the Wyatt matches.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I've seen most if not all of every single WM. Up until WM 7, you could count on 1 hand the amount of great matches worth rewatching occurred. Savage/Steamboat WM 3, Hogan/Warrior WM 6, Savage/Hogan WM 5, Rockers/Orient Express WM 6, and maybe throw Rude/Roberts WM 4 in there. That's about it. Absolutely nothing on WM 1 and WM 2 is worth re watching, or even watching for the first time. And no show really had multiple good matches until WM 7. WM 8 had 2 classics and overall was a really fun show, WM 9 stunk, WM 10 had 2 great matches and some not so great matches, but it was tolerable. WM 11 is tied with WM 2000 as my least favorite WM since 1990. WM 27 came close but couldn't match those two shit shows. WM 17 is looked on so fondly because it is the WM that really turned the who show around, it was the one that set the bar and made fans expect more out of WM than just some elaborate sets and a lot of pomp and circumstance. It made fans expect great matches, great feuds, and a palpable, exciting atmosphere. It's why fans feel so underwhelmed with this years WM 31. If it was 1988 fans would be falling all over themselves with excitement at the prospects of this show. But once WM 17 happened people realized what kind of show WWE was capable of putting on and now we expect a show of that caliber every year. When it doesn't happen of course you feel a twinge of dissapointment. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not prejudging this years show, merely commenting on the complete failure of WWE to book a card that creates a lot of excitement and anticipation, with feuds/characters we are really engaged with. The only smart thing they did this year was keep Taker at home, now as I'm typing this I'm already getting a tad giddy with excitement at the prospect of seeing the Deadman again, the first time since he was beaten and hospitalized by Lesnar. Once Taker is gone there is going to be a MASSIVE void at WM for the first several years. It'll make every show seem less than, because we won't get to experience a Taker entrance/WM match.


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

#ROOT said:


> And their HIAC match shits over every other match in the history of existence .


This was like Brock vs Cena from ER 2012 except worse. I'd give it **** at most. Squash match with a guy that has boring offense doing the squashing.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

BREEaments03 said:


> This was like Brock vs Cena from ER 2012 except worse. I'd give it **** at most. Squash match with a guy that has boring offense doing the squashing.



IMO Brock and Taker are probably 2 of my favorite 5-6 guys ever on offense, when they are at their best. I think that ER and that HiaC match would both qualify as those two at their absolute best. I'm down for a good old fashioned ass whipping type match when you have a great baby face who can bump and sell really well, and a legitimate bad ass like Brock, Taker, Vader, Finlay, or Hansen wiping the floor with them. That's usually a recipe for success in my book.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

HHH/Taker HIAC > HBK/Taker HIAC :trips2

Brock/Taker HIAC > ALL though


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> IMO Brock and Taker are probably 2 of my favorite 5-6 guys ever on offense, when they are at their best.


Just personal preference ofc. I've never cared for Taker's offense. Those other guys you listed though...oh man how I love me some stiff ass kickers like Hansen, Vader, Brock, etc..



> HHH/Taker HIAC > HBK/Taker HIAC
> 
> Brock/Taker HIAC > ALL though


Here's what I wrote on another forum about that HHH/Taker HiaC match just earlier today:



> Taker vs HHH @ 28 - This match needs to be erased from history. It made me embarrassed to be a wrestling fan. Too many people say it's a GOAT match and 5* and that shit.


<3 the Brock/Taker HiaC. That, Batista/HHH, and Mankind/Taker are my top 3. I couldn't choose between them though.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

sharkboy22 said:


> Something happened to me just now that made me, for the first time, hate the Network. I was watching Raven/Jericho and I realized they piped in his WWE theme song. What the actual fuck? Makes me wonder if they started censoring the word "Benoit" now.


I think it's just a copyright thing. Maybe the random composer who did Jericho's theme wanted all rights or whatever.

edit - unless you meant Raven which is a Jimmy Hart theme but the tune is pretty much a copy of "Come As You Are". Hart ripped off a LOT of famous musicians for wrestler's theme songs.

I've never liked Michaels/Taker 26 either. It's on my 2010 list only b/c I try to be objective. I mean if I wasn't the Regal/Bourne four minute match might be top 5 right now.



ATF said:


> Wow, BR 2010 review? More like RANT :lol That was hilarious man. Though I don't really agree much, if at all, on your thoughts on Bryan/Ziggler - thought it was supposed to be wrestled THAT way after all since both men were meant to look equals w/the whole "IC vs US champ" dynamic and whatnot, Bryan kicking Ziggler around was fun to watch, and... I don't know, I just had tons of fun w/it - but we'll simply agree to disagree. SVS will be far less painful (except for the WHC match), especially given how you didn't seem to absolutely despise the BR Main Event... more or less. Did you?


I get that people want and/or expected it to be wrestled the way it was, but I just don't find that type of wrestling good. I can't even be mad at it or anything. The crowd were into it, people are into it, it made both guys look strong coming out of it. Like in a match like Richards/Tomko pretty much everyone in the universe agrees that was a disaster and didn't work on any level, do you could point blame for it not being good at just about anything. Bryan/Ziggler isn't something I 'blame' anybody for because, well for one I didn't actually think it was BAD, and for two, it worked. This may seem stupid and/or contradictory for what I said above about being objective, but I hope it makes sense. Actually I think I think its perfect that somebody bring up Michaels/Taker now b/c it kind of separates itself from Bryan/Ziggler. I didn't like Michaels/Taker a whole lot but I can't admit it wasn't good. I had to add to the list. Bryan/Ziggler I didn't like nor did I think was good. I hope I didn't come off as too negative toward it though, because it wasn't bad and if forced to watch it again I wouldn't be looking for the closest noose. Come to think of it I did entirely forget to say a positive thing about it (and there were positive things) so it's on me. Guess I didn't want to make the writey for it bigger than it already was. 

I didn't hate the main event, but I probably would have if I was in a worse mood. Yeah believe it or not I wasn't in a bad mood watching that show. Probaby couldn't tell from what I wrote lmao



Trip/Taker HIAC is hilarious and awful and hilarious. Michaels was on a whole 'nother level of bad over-acting. Reminds me of the guy on a barstool playing an acoustic guitar in the nightclub all sad and shitty to try to get attention from divorcee mothers. "ohhh he's soooooooo compassionate and dreamyyy"


edit - I have to watch something I know I like next before SS to come off as at least a little positive. :lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You people are lunatics. Can you not see a work of art when it's planted right in front of you? I don't give a shit about Shawn deserving a Razzie for his acting, that match to me is a masterpiece and deserves the now sadly dying respect it at least used to have. Cal and I seem to be the only ones who defend it, and I don't get why. It's true that maybe the story was way too ambitious and the one billion kick outs were overkill, but I thought nothing of that ever emotionally distracted me. Yes sure, I am too fucking biased to judge (WM 28 is the most impactful wrestling show in my personal life ever by a galaxy), but go to shit.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

What you said makes perfect sense. Everyone has their own preference and dislikes for the different styles of wrestling. But I like what you said about trying to be objective, I try not to say a match is shit if it's just worked in a style I don't like. I only say a match is shit if I think it's straight up bad wrestling, and usually that means it feels inorganic or choreographed to me, where guys eschew realism to try and get cheap pops from the crowd. I don't care one bit how a match comes to be, even though Savage/Steamboat was literally a scripted match, it felt 10 times more legitimate and authentic than say the Edge/Taker TLC match, or the Edge/Cena TLC match, and I can almost promise you those 2 matches didn't have a literal script like Savage/Steamboat did. 

On the other hand, I'm a total sucker for hard fought struggles on the mat in wrestling matches, and matches that have really snug, tight work that seems believeable. I'm also a sucker for Terry Funk style bumping and stooging, if someone is out there acting like a complete maniac to the point that even I think he's crazy, generally I'm a fan of that match. I'll overrate and sing the praises of those type of matches until the end of time, but objectively I know they aren't better than Michaels/Taker WM 25, even if I'd much rather watch a match like Finlay/Hardy 6/18/07.

I don't know exactly what the point of this post was, I swear I had a point when I started out but it's gone now. fpalm


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bit random, but does anyone know the match in this vid @1:38 where Vader does the chokeslam?


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Why is everyone complaining about dbry getting "buried" by zigs? Don't they realize he's getting jobbed out because he's going over at mania?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Brock said:


> Bit random, but does anyone know the match in this vid @1:38 where Vader does the chokeslam?


Looks like Akiyama. They had a match on 12/9/01.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Looks like Akiyama. They had a match on 12/9/01.


 Thanks mate. Ill dig out my Vader comp and check it out when i can.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Loved seeing Batista/HHH HIAC listed up the page. I LOVE that match.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

HONEY BUCKET REVIEWS:

*ECW ONE NIGHT STAND 2005​*
First off, we have a video package WWE style, but wait...NO, we are actually LIVE from the Hammerstein Ballroom! This is ECW territory! Shit is gonna go down! Oh my Go-

WAIT. I'll leave that to the person who knows that phrase best! It's fucking Joey Styles! Joey gets in the ring and he's about to cry god bless him, then he shouts 'OH MY GAWD!' then the crowd go ape. He introduces his co-commentator in Mick Foley in a decision which probably wasn't the best. I mean, Mick is GOD but as a commentator? C'mon.

MATCH ONE: *LIONHEART CHRIS IRVINE* vs. *BORING CUNT w/ Slut Wagon*
Jericho comes out as the Lionheart cos he's OLD SKOOL dammit. Lance Storm comes out with Dawn Marie but still doesn't hide the fact he's still a boring shit. They shake hands and remarks are made from their time as a tag team in SMW. HISTORY MEANS SOMETHING HERE IN ECW. This is the obligatory 'proper' wrestling match to start the show and get the rabid ECW fans nodding their heads. 'SHE'S A CRACK WHORE' chants straight away. Chops everywhere. Foley mentions their history in SMW. Styles mentions how mats have to be used because of health and safety. SELL OUT! Drop kick catches Jericho flush in the face ouch. Delayed suplex blah. Jericho catches Storm with a great kick after Storm leaps to the top turn buckle. The crowd starts chanting 'CANDIDO!'. Heel kick from Storm. Then a superkick! Back elbow off the top from Jericho. Storm gets the single leg Calgary Crab from a nice float over for a submission. I need to stop commenting so much on these matches otherwise I will DIE. WALLS OF JERICHO. JASON IS HERE. JUSTIN CREDIBLE IS HERE. Justin Credible smacks Jericho in the head with the cane and Lance Storm wins. Apparently, this is Storm's last match, but the fans don't know that, and nobody gives a fuck. Jericho gets a 'LIONHEART' chant cos the fans are fucking underground AS FUCK. Jesus. **

Shot of the balcony showing....nobody there. Oh, it's supposed to be for the WWE SUPERSTARS. They were gonna protest this PPV but they're not here yet. AAAAANYWAY...

Shot takes us to...*Gary Wolf* from The Pitbulls! He's in full wrestling gear but he just mentions all the ECW guys who sadly lost their lives since they went kaput. A great but sad moment here. Some major names, some names not so major. Still, all sad losses all the same. It is utterly alarming how many of these guys are no longer with us anymore. Biggest reaction is for Chris Candido, who was a phenomenal talent and was treated like utter shit by his old employer (guess who), his girlfriend (guess who), and life itself. Wrestling never understood how talented this guy was. The crowd chants in response. RIP to all.

MATCH TWO: *WILLIAM REGAL'S ASSISTANT* (with that *LOSER FROM ECW* and *SATAN*) vs. *SMALL ITALIAN GUY* (with *FREDDIE JOE FLOYD*, *TONY MOZZARELLA*, *BIG ITALIAN GUY* and *THE GUY WHO STARTED THE 'YOU FUCKED UP' CHANTS' IN THE FIRST PLACE*) vs. *SUPER SHITFACED CRAZY CUNT*
Okay...let's get this out of the way...I ain't gonna be reviewing these matches too much in depth anymore. First off...Super Crazy is FUCKING MENTAL...diving off the balcony with a moonsault on to everybody. The FBI gets involved, and so does everyone else. Mikey Whipwreck hits a second rope Whippersnapper on Lil Guido and he's gone. Now it's Tajiri and Super Crazy. It's strange seeing Sinister Minister get involved (if he did this in ECW then forgive me). Who is that strange 1980s wrestler? Oh it's Tracy Smothers! He should've stayed in the 80s as well with his pathetic offence (yeah, fuck you). Super Crazy is OWNING this match, he is AWESOME. Tajiri gets a nice DDT counter for two. Super Crazy hits the triple moonsaults but Whipwreck cuts him off at the last hurdle. There's a 'YOU FUCKED UP' chant at something which I missed, but Crazy hits a moonsault on Tajiri for the win. Man, Super Crazy was ON FORM here. Very entertaining. **1/4

More ECW clips. Shane Douglas. Tommy Dreamer. Paul E OH YOU KNOW WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT FOR FUCK SAKE. Some great clips though of The Public Enemy being tied up from the ceiling by Funk and Cactus (I think) and Dreamer getting caned to OBLIVION. The guy was a glutton for punishment but he liked it. HE;S HARDCORE etc yeah whatever. CHAIRS! FIRE! PROFANITY! TITS! All we're missing is some up close shots of a bloody vagina after being smashed by a concrete pillar. No? Not extreme enough? Well, fuck you! YOU FUCKED UP!

Oh yeah and some other Shane Douglas diatribes zzzzzzzzz.

In all honesty, this was an awesome video package showing what ECW was all about.

MATCH THREE: *MEXICO PCYHOSISISISISISISISISIISISISIS* vs. *RAYMOND MYSTERIOUS*
Psychosis comes out with the mask on but then sheds it before the bell. 'LUCHA LIBRE' chant. Arm ringers and flippity floppity bullshit, I can't be arsed to review this match to it's fullest. I need to go for a shit.

Fuck it, I'll review Part 2 later.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I liked that Lance Storm vs. Chris Jericho match more than this Kawada/Misawa match that I just finished.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Smothers was in the FBI in the 90s. :lol


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Rah said:


> Speaking of 1978, and if you're on a Fujinami tip, please give his match against brother Mando Guerrero a watch
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Enjoyable Mando is all over the amateur wrestling techniques in this. And damned if I don't enjoy a really really snappy arm drag or hip toss. After a near-fall late, Mando immediately takes a grounded waist lock, stands and gives a very meaty takedown, and they take the near-fall rest there instead of just after the 2-count. Was awesome - something like an Angle or a Shamrock would do - just a natural reaction given his amateur chops: secure a dominant position and hold on when you're exhausted. Thanks!



TheChoppingMachine said:


> What kind of fucker have a Muta sig?


The type of fucker who'll no-sell, grab at his larynx & spit drink in your face before back elbowing you over a table if you ever talked junk about Muta to his face, I know that


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Binged on a ton of Mania stuff last night/today. Snowflakes and thoughts where necessary. 

*Punk/Orton (27) - ***3/4*. I really like this match and I don't know why it's also one of my favourite Punk matches and I don't know why either. 

*Orton/Kane (28) - ***1/2*. Hidden gem and dat swerve. 

*HHH/Taker (28) - ******. Fuck anybody who doesn't like this match you have no soul and you're shit. That is all. 

*Shane/Vince - (X7) - ***1/2*. The McMahon's are very sports entertaining. 

*TLC Tag - (X7) - ****1/2*. 

*HBK/Jericho - (X9) - ****1/4.* 

*HBK/Vince - (22) - ***1/2*. THIS MATCH IS FUN and that's all that matters. Vince in the trash can = GRAPEFRUITS GALORE. 

*Cena/JBL - (21) - **. Shit. 

*Cena/HHH - (22) - ****1/4*. Personal favourite match of mine. Bring the flames. 

*HBK/Taker - (25) - ******

*Taker/Lesnar - (30) - ***. Terrible match. Heartbreaking result. I'll never forget the atmosphere in the Superdome after that 3 count. 

*Cena/Batista - (26) - ***1/2.* 

*Edge/Jericho - (26) - **1/2.* BORING. 

*HHH Entrance - (30) - ***********. The only 10* moment in WWE history. 

:fact

I'm planning to do some older stuff today and tomorrow because it's Wrestlemania and I have absolutely nothing else to do. Also, anybody who isn't particularly hyped yet should definitely check out Wrestlemania Today on the network. The video packages and interview segments have me excited for basically every match now. Top notch stuff and the Dusty appearance from yesterdays show is worth it alone. I'm expecting big things from Rollins/Orton, I just hope they get the time to shine.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> Binged on a ton of Mania stuff last night/today. Snowflakes and thoughts where necessary.
> 
> *Punk/Orton (27) - ***3/4*. I really like this match and I don't know why it's also one of my favourite Punk matches and I don't know why either.
> 
> ...


I really enjoyed HHH/Taker from WM28. I thought it was really really good. No one will sway me on it. Shane/Vince is always a personal favourite of mine, great match. TLC is a classic as is Jericho/HBK. Punk/Orton was excellent. HBK/Vince was fantastic. I didn't like Cena/Batista, nor their series as I was a huge mark for Batistas heel work and haven't liked Cena for years. Hated Cena/HHH when I first watched it due to him TAPPING OUT. Cena/JBL was terrible :lmao

I really want to watch HHH/Batista from Mania now, loved that feud.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Stopped reading Starbuck's post after seeing how highly she rated Orton/Punk 8*D.

http://wrestlingview.co.uk/?p=2147 Wrestling View's HOF! Far more elite and legitimate than WWE's!!!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

King Kenny said:


> I really enjoyed HHH/Taker from WM28. I thought it was really really good. No one will sway me on it. Shane/Vince is always a personal favourite of mine, great match. TLC is a classic as is Jericho/HBK. Punk/Orton was excellent. HBK/Vince was fantastic. I didn't like Cena/Batista, nor their series as I was a huge mark for Batistas heel work and haven't liked Cena for years. Hated Cena/HHH when I first watched it due to him TAPPING OUT. Cena/JBL was terrible :lmao
> 
> I really want to watch HHH/Batista from Mania now, loved that feud.


Trips/Batista HIAC is where it's at although Hunter's blade job from Mania is pretty sick. 



#ROOT said:


> Stopped reading Starbuck's post after seeing how highly she rated Orton/Punk 8*D.
> 
> http://wrestlingview.co.uk/?p=2147 Wrestling View's HOF! Far more elite and legitimate than WWE's!!!


I know you read it all don't act like you didn't.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Of course I read it all. Needed to see what other matches you were WRONG about 8*D.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

About Goddamn time somebody else defends Taker/HHH HIAC. JESUS. I rewatched it earlier today w/my girl and it's still absolutely brilliant. The crowd, the brutality, the character work, the atmosphere. Just... wow. Gf described it better when she said she thought it was like a "crazy war movie, albeit w/not too good acting". I wholeheartedly agree. It was like Pearl Harbor if it were a good movie.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

#ROOT said:


> Of course I read it all. Needed to see what other matches you were WRONG about 8*D.


Don't get mad because I can tell STATISTICAL FACTUAL STATS OF OPINION THAT ARE FACTS AND NOT LIES in a few sentences and don't have to resort to 5000 word rambles . 



ATF said:


> About Goddamn time somebody else defends Taker/HHH HIAC. JESUS. I rewatched it earlier today w/my girl and it's still absolutely brilliant. The crowd, the brutality, the character work, the atmosphere. Just... wow. Gf described it better when she said she thought it was like a "crazy war movie, albeit w/not too good acting". I wholeheartedly agree. It was like Pearl Harbor if it were a good movie.


I will defend Taker/HHH to the death. The lowly people who don't like it have no souls.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

ATF said:


> About Goddamn time somebody else defends Taker/HHH HIAC. JESUS. I rewatched it earlier today w/my girl and it's still absolutely brilliant. The crowd, the brutality, the character work, the atmosphere. Just... wow. Gf described it better when she said she thought it was like a "crazy war movie, albeit w/not too good acting". I wholeheartedly agree. It was like Pearl Harbor if it were a good movie.


HHH/Taker getting action :kobe3




Starbuck said:


> Trips/Batista HIAC is where it's at although Hunter's blade job from Mania is pretty sick.
> 
> 
> 
> I know you read it all don't act like you didn't.


I LOVE Trips/Batista HIAC. In fact I'm going to watch it again soon. Might just watch their whole series again. 







in fairness, this is fantastic :lmao

but this one is the GOAT





 :lmao


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> Stopped reading Starbuck's post after seeing how highly she rated Orton/Punk 8*D.
> 
> http://wrestlingview.co.uk/?p=2147 Wrestling View's HOF! Far more elite and legitimate than WWE's!!!


As much as I loathe and detest what the WWE has done with their HoF (seriously, Rikishi is in? If that's the bar, Dean Ambrose is already a HoFer and Rusev will be by the end of the year) I would normally be 100% behind anyone creating their own HoF to acknowledge the actual all time great wrestlers. But, Cal, this 1 inductee per year rule is rough. You will die before you induct all the worthy wrestlers. Wrestling has been popular since the turn of the century, if you go all the way back to George Hackenschmidt and Frank Gotch, which any reasonable HoF would do, you will need to find a way to be at least 200 years old before you die so you can induct everyone.

Austin, Rock, Sting, Andre, Taker, Bret Hart, Cena, Dusty Rhodes, Arn Anderson, Barry Windham, Mick Foley, Vader, Finlay, Kenta Kobashi, Tenryu, Misawa, Terry Funk Stan Hansen, Dory Funk Jr., Midnight Express, Rock n Roll Express, Bobby Heenan, Gorilla Monsoon, Jim Ross, Randy Savage, Kurt Angle, Eddie Guerrero, Rey Mysterio, William Regal.

There, that's 30 years worth of inductions, those are all no brainers. You'll be what, 54-55 years old when you get done with them?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Some of those guys wouldn't exactly be near the top of MY list for guys going into the HOF .

But you are right, 1 a year might not be the best idea down the line. For now though, it's gonna be just 1. If I'm still doing this in 10 years I'll maybe change it to 3 a year. You'll have to remind me though :side:.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Where's the love for pimping your show BIG CAL


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sorry . YEY THANKS KENNY WOOOO <3.

Happy now?!?! 

Busy editing my video for 2morrow anyway. Then there won't be anything for about a month as I'm moving in a couple of weeks and need to get all that shit sorted out.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

When will this be uploaded? :mark:

Eh, back on topic, WRESTLEMANIA so soon. By my recollection, 30 hours from now? or 29?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Video is going online 2morrow. BIG CAL BOOKS WRESTLEMANIA 31~! Need to try and get it finished asap cos my upload speed here is god awful and will take hours to get up . Might watch some old WM matches while I wait for it to be done. Or maybe something just now so I don't go crazy from staring at myself on the screen .


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

#ROOT said:


> Video is going online 2morrow. BIG CAL BOOKS WRESTLEMANIA 31~! Need to try and get it finished asap cos my upload speed here is god awful and will take hours to get up . Might watch some old WM matches while I wait for it to be done. Or maybe something just now so I don't go crazy from staring at myself on the screen .


I just found a website that ranks all 287 wrestlemania matches in order of worst to best. 

[hide]http://www.buzzfeed.com/miketchin/ranking-every-wrestlemania-match-ever-ipcp#.mp60BYQbg[/hide]

There's no way I'm going to be able to copy it onto here match by match. 

Still, interesting I guess.

I really need to watch Savage/Warrior and Savage/Steamboat. Hell I need help in the future for a long overdue Savage marathon. I watched unfortunately most of his stuff whilst in WCW. DDP/Savage feud though


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Am I the only person on the planet that DOESN'T like the DDP/Savage stuff? SO ALOOOONE.

Watched Flair/Undertaker from WM 18 yesterday just because. Yeah, it still rocks. Might just watch all of WM 19 later because you know, awesomeness.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

You seem to follow a trend of not liking what a lot of people like. 

:hmm:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

King Kenny said:


> You seem to follow a trend of not liking what a lot of people like.
> 
> :hmm:


That's the best way to summarize this thread. Everybody doesn't like what other people like. As a result, we all make fun of each other for their opinions. And that's somehow made us all closer.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

funnyfaces1 said:


> That's the best way to summarize this thread. Everybody doesn't like what other people like. As a result, we all make fun of each other for their opinions. And that's somehow made us all closer.


The good side of the Internet Wrestling Community.

We're not all bad. :wink2:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

King Kenny said:


> You seem to follow a trend of not liking what a lot of people like.
> 
> :hmm:


Welcome to this thread (Y)

It's not just him. It's all of us. Here, everything is pet peeved and nothing from the outside ever goes untouched as perfect. You name it, it has it's hater/unfollower. Maybe w/a few exceptions, but soon enough you'd find somebody against said ones. I don't think I've ever seen someone here hate on Michaels/Mankind or the Austin/Bret series, for example.

But it's not in the vein of being Mr. Contra or anything. It's all down to personal opinions. We all agree that wrestling is about storytelling and entertainment above anything. But some believe in different things than others. Some believe that punches don't matter THAT much, others see it as a crucial part of a match. Some prefer their matches anyway but don't mind back and forths, others seem to not enjoy back and forths at all. It's all crazy ass personal tastes, really.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

#ROOT said:


> http://wrestlingview.co.uk/?p=2147 Wrestling View's HOF! Far more elite and legitimate than WWE's!!!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrestling_Observer_Newsletter_Hall_of_Fame

:hmm:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

*Survivor Series in 2010 probably November*

PLEASE. PLEEEESE don’t SUCK. Seriously motherfucker I’m not as picky as I seem. Just give me WATCHABLE. WATCHABLE is fine.

--------------
Daniel Bryan v. Ted DiBiase
DiBiase is so STINKY BUTT that they had to saddle him onto the extremely talented heel in Maryse. I want to talk about that being just a ploy to get DiBiase heat, but with him being the rich guy, Maryse acting like a gold digger whore just adds more heat to her fire. I don’t want to come off as sexist calling her a whore while just calling DiBiase ‘guy’. It’s just that DiBiase does nothing to look like a jerk or wanker or anything else insulting on ‘whore’ level other than go against babyfaces. Maryse was actually good. Thought she added to this by the one or two verbal things she did on the outside. This was carried by Bryan’s really neat shit, though. DiBiase tries to ruin it by catching the last of a bunch of several kicks Bryan threw, basically no-selling the rest of them. Then when upright, goes to sweep the other leg that Bryan has on the floor and Bryan swiftly jumps over it and nails a small package. That’s some next-level sweep dodging. Bryan dives and hurts his own arm which could have been the main focus for the rest of the match, but instead just wound up being something Bryan held onto whenever he did something risky. There was a great sell by Bryan when he flipped backwards on a clothesline (seemed to be doing that a lot around this time), which didn’t even look good. Most other wrestlers would probably look silly as fuck flipping on a not-even-good clothesline but Bryan made it work. Didn’t look like he bent his knees and prepared for it or anything; it came off like he was standing on a giant banana peel and somebody pulled it out from under him like a rug. So was this legit “good”? Didn’t think so. But it was OK, fine, all right, watchable. I never considered adding this but an entire show with matches on this level is fine by me. If only because of my past experiences with 2010 shows. NOT ADDING.

-------
The Miz is in the ring talking about basketball and getting some lame cheap heat about LeBron (he’s from Cleveland, PPV’s in Miami). He may have assaulted Bryan IDK I hit fast forward. Says a bunch of bland rubbish that you could hear from the mouth of any jobber. Surprised he isn’t champion yet. I thought it was like, in September he cashed in. 
------------

Sheamus v. John Morrison
Sheamus is finally the beefy beef ‘n’ cheese beefhouse bastard I’ve wanted him to be and he somehow found his ideal opponent in John Morrison. I was instantly hooked when they opened the match with piss and vinegar combined with pepsi and mentos and hot oil plus cold water. Morrison takes a spinny dive and almost lands on Sheamus’ neck/head and Sheamus chucks Morrison into the barricade just to get him the fuck off. What I really liked about this match was how everything Sheamus did felt like a destructive blow and how everything from Morrison felt like it had significant impact on him getting his together. Sheamus’ body shots in particular had some incredible smacking, and he seemed genuinely pissed off that Morrison could be doing anything but being squashed. Morrison doesn’t have the best offense – never has – but hearing him put screams into clotheslines while fighting back was all I could ask for. Sheamus seemed to try the brogue kick just as Morrison was picking up steam too which I always support. Going for Morrison’s leg got an immediate “TLC!” response from me (not aloud like a shithead), and after seeing this I am much, much more excited to re-watch that match. This will be one of those matches that might be hard to place but I think will ultimately end up outside the top 25 so it doesn’t really matter where I put it right now. Jeez I only wanted “watchable.” ADDING.

Dolph Ziggler v. Kaval
sighhhhhh

Another all-over-the-place Ziggler match. I just don’t understand how he works his matches sometimes. I thought at the VERY least this’d make Kaval look like an underdog but nothing. I just can’t tell who’s in control at what time and big spots don’t actually look big as a result. Ziggler took a motherfucking NASTY kick to the face which resulted in a little blood and it just felt like a random move. This is so weird, I just don’t know how to describe it. It isn’t exactly the type of Angle wrestling where selling means nothing, nor is it the 2.99 count KENTA match I hate. Ziggler carved out his own brand of match I just cannot wrap my head around and don’t think works as, well, good. Taking the spots individually they’re often good, but it just doesn’t fit in with what they’re doing at the time. Because there isn’t a “what they’re doing”, it just feels like a set of moves. But not a submission exhibition, I don’t think. It doesn’t come off like that. Maybe the best hypothetical comparison I can think of would be two guys having a brawl because they hate each other and out of nowhere doing Malenko/Guerrero. No, that’s not it. Ah screw it, I don’t want to understand this Ziggler stuff. Maybe someone in WWE agrees with me and that’s why he always faces Kofi. Like hell, I think I came off of every Kofi match from 2010 with a higher impression of Ziggler and it plummeted when he faced Bryan Danielson and Low Ki. Look, like the Bryan/Ziggler match I didn’t even think this was bad, and the reason I might seem more annoyed than anything is because I thought the matches might surprise me, but, but, but, but….um…u..….uuu…..uuuuutajiiibaishsvvinnkaah…..A licky boom boom down! What’s the best Ziggler/Kofi? NOT ADDING. 

----------
Alberto’s team have a backstage skit where Swagger says they might as well be in Little Cuba and Cody says “excuse him; he tried to get in a club last night with UGLIEST shoes...” Swagger responds saying they were his grandfather’s and they’re vintage. Alberto calms them down and pretty much says if Rey’s team winds up on the floor with children crying, he’ll buy them all beers. It was AWESOME. They should have been stable of 3 heels with evil moustaches who don’t agree on anything but in the end never have dissention. 
-----------

Rey Mysterio/The Big Show/Kofi Kingston/Chris Masters/MVP v. Alberto Del Rio/Jack Swagger/Cody Rhodes/Drew McIntyre/Tyler Reks
I get to see Masters!???? He comes out no reaction because only we internet nerd weenies were watching SuperStars back then and the more casual audience wanted an hour of the Great Khali dancing in intergender tag matches instead. Have I mentioned how much I despise what happened to SuperStars?? I can’t tell if MVP’s music had been dubbed and cheering had been canned, or he just had a hideously incomplete song with cheering *in it*.

Oh, right, he’s from Miami, they were actual cheers. Show being billed from Tampa got him big reactions in the match too which was really great considering NXT retard fans like telling him to retire. I don’t even know how to talk about this match. Expect this write-up to have less structure than a Dolph Ziggler match (ZING!). We get a short McIntyre/Masters section which is pretty much centered around how hard Drew can beat Masters with clotheslines in the corner, and Masters sells each one like 2010 Chris Masters. Kofi and Reks even had a super exchange if you ignore Kofi’s shitty palm knock-you-downs. Alberto slaps Show across to the top of the head and gets very regretful when Show starts staring down at him for it. He tries to get Drew in the match and Drew’s reaction of “noooo wayyy” was wonderful. Del Rio forcefully tags Drew in and winks at Show which gets him a punch in the face, and in the ultimate sissy move has to be helped out of the match by _those medical guys in black shirts_. Alberto in general was such a good scumbag in the time he got. Did I say ultimate sissy move? Cody tops it by throwing the mother of all hissy fits when Kofi slaps him across the face. He kicks the ropes and barricade, assaults the announce table, and tells the ring bell guy or someone to hold up his jacket with the mirror on it so he can check his reflection. He obviously gets a punch to the face, but not before Show YELLS and teases one without actually doing it, making Cody look like an even bigger sissy. Rey was phenomenal in landing on leg after Swagger went after everybody’s ankles. McIntyre kicked Show while Rey was on top of him and he lands directly on the leg with the perfect wobble. Loved him tumbling right before tagging someone else in, too. I’m such a sucker for that. Kofi doesn’t take kindly to Swagger attacking him on the apron while Rey’s facing Swagger, so Kofi gets in to trip Swagger in the 619 position. Reks comes in and wipes out with a clothesline Show after Show eliminated someone and Show really put it over. I must be forgetting five things I wanted to mention. Just one fun thing after one fun thing. This was fun. Like a lot. Like a lot, a lot. I thought I met my favourite part of the match and they just kept topping it. It had me legitimately smiling at too many different points. There have been at least a couple matches that I didn’t know whether or not I should add - and didn’t - that I think might deserve a second look. I can’t in good conscience leave this out. ADDING.

-------
I HAVE 25 MATCHES!!!!!! It’s a bad, ridiculously incomplete list right now and it took me a year and a half but I’m moving forward~!
---------

LayCool v. Natalya
If they had skipped Beth Phoenix’s return and the rest of the post-match stuff they could have devoted it to making this a complete match. I mean what they did was OK, it just wasn’t enough. McCool just taps after some decently enjoyed Heels Fuck Around And Then Get There’s stuff. There wasn’t enough of that though, I felt like the match was just starting. Which is abysmal for a revenge-filled title dethroning of two bitches who had been running a muck for a long time. NOT ADDING.

Kane v. Edge
HNNNGHH

How I forgot about possibly my least favourite feud of all time does not make any sense. I tell you it is extremely hard writing this with shaky hands and tears obstructing my vision whilst simultaneously dripping down onto my keyboard. I don’t want to watch this. I will toss all positivity coming from Sheamus/Morrison and the 5-on-5 out the window right now because I have almost no doubt this will suck. I would toss half of my cousins out the window with the positivity to not watch this. And that’s like 67 people. But I must watch this. I have to. It’s on this show, and I said I’d watch the shows in full. I do not “NO” matches like a ***** ginger. Let’s do this, I guess……

….right, the video package. Edge kidnaps Paul Bearer and ties him up. Makes a ‘tied up’ pun. Dumps PIZZA on him, and throws a soccer ball at his head. And they edit it like it it’s a mace hitting a gong or something. Kane is often a dogshit actor and hearing him ask random WWE man “I’m looking for Paul Bearer, where is he??” was enough to make me cringe. Then he starts crying. Just awful. If I didn’t know about this feud I don’t think I’d even expect it to be this bad just on this video package alone. Seriously this is two guys I do not give a shit about, after spending the rest of the year pretty much either doing shit or being carried, having a feud together with silly rubbish like Edge dropping chicken wings on Bearer’s stomach. This is like finding out Nickelback and Maroon 5 are going to make an entire album of collabs and then when they release the lead single it’s just a recording of an old person’s battle with diarrhoea. I can’t do it. I’ve been watching this entire show without a break but I need one before watching this.

*14 hours later*

Okaaaay, I’m baaack….I guess I’ll watch it now…..

*watches*

It was BAD. No, I cannot figure out any other opinion there might be on this matter – I just cannot imagine why anybody would think Edge was anything better pigshit around this time. With Ziggler I can at least feel like some of it is on me just not “getting” it (not that I think was Ziggler was ‘bad’). Edge was purely bad. Purely, utterly, completely BAD. I do not see any other way around it. He was way worse than I think I’ve ever seen Kofi Kingston look. Since SummerSlam he’s been in matches that have actually worked OK but this was an exposé of everything wrong with him. And hell thinking back on the 2010 Kane I’ve seen I’ve probably been too hard on him. He’s probably average....below average maybe, but he looked like motherfucking Finlay next to Edge here. Edge trying to do ‘bounce off ropes to knock down big guy weeble wobble’- SEVERAL minutes after he EFFORTLESSLY tripped up Kane by grabbing ONE LEG and just pulling - was hilarious. Also hilarious when he went to take Kane’s leg to the ring post and Kane was trying to pull away, only for Edge to break all immersion by LETTING GO of the leg to get out of the ring WHILE Kane was pulling away. CAPITAL LETTERS. The rest of this is the same bad Edge offense and selling and useless time-wasting shit that I’ve been seeing for most of the rest of the year. Awful, 2003 HHH-level wrestling. The finish was a hideous idea that Edge made even worse by not being able to convincingly fall after the spear and so obviously shifted into the double pin. This was baaaaaad. I don’t think I’ve seen a match on a 2010 PPV this bad since WrestleMania. Don’t spoil what’s coming for me at TLC. GUESS WHETHER I’M ADDING THIS OR NOT.


--------------------
Cena and Barrett have a cool backstage thing where Barrett says they’re in the same building where the Nexus debuted and he bet Cena never thought that he’d have to help the Nexus one day. Then he confuses me by saying, “The only reason I didn’t fire you for that stunt you pulled on Raw, was because I chose not to.” That doesn’t make sense, right? I ain’t just *totally* stupid? Cena’s guest ref for the main, btw. 
------------------

Heath Slater/Justin Gabriel v. Santino Marella/Vladimir Kozlov
Pretty enjoyable. NOT ADDING.

-----------------
Um OK I had to go back to the Bragging Rights write-up and see if I said anything about the main event’s video package revolving round Cena. That was NOTHING compared to this show’s main event’s video package. I think Orton was shown twice.
----------------

the wwe champion versus a british guy feat. 




*SPECIAL REFEREE JOHN CENA!!!!!!!!!*

After many minutes of boring, unimpressionable nothing, Barrett shoves Cena, Cena shoves back, RKO, and three. Couldn’t care less to comment on anything else in or after the match. NOT ADDING.

--------------------------
Overall thoughts: The show itself was mostly pretty fun. But ehhhh I’m looking at my list and the placement of Sheamus/Morrison isn’t really sitting well with me. I feel like it should be a couple spots higher. I said it might wind up in honourable mentions but if it does I think I’d consider it #26 . Aw fuck it, it was too good, I actually want it top 25. I’m moving it up at least above the SummerSlam main event. 25 matches!!!!!

Current list:



Spoiler: WHATTUP?



1.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/30/10)
2.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (SmackDown 2/12/10)
3.	John Cena v. Batista (Extreme Rules 4/25/10)
4.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Over the Limit 5/23/10)
5.	The Miz v. Daniel Bryan (Night of Champions 9/19/10)
6.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 8/20/10)
7.	Jack Swagger v. Rey Mysterio (SmackDown 6/11/10)
8.	Christian v. William Regal (ECW 1/19/10)
9.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/16/10)
10.	Rey Mysterio v. Jack Swagger (Money in the Bank 7/18/10)
11.	Christian v. Ezekiel Jackson (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
12.	Rey Mysterio v. Mike Knox (SuperStars 2/18/10)
13.	Christian/Kane v. William Regal/Ezekiel Jackson (ECW 1/26/10)
14.	Sheamus v. John Morrison (Survivor Series 11/21/10)
15.	John Cena/Edge/Chris Jericho/Bret Hart/John Morrison/R-Truth/Daniel Bryan v. The Nexus (SummerSlam 8/15/10)
16.	Shawn Michaels v. The Undertaker (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
17.	William Regal v. Evan Bourne (SuperStars 3/4/10)
18.	Chris Jericho v. Evan Bourne (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
19.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Extreme Rules 4/29/10)
20.	The Undertaker v. Rey Mysterio (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
21.	Drew McIntyre v. Kaval (SmackDown 9/10/10)
22.	Christian v. William Regal (SuperStars 1/14/10)
23.	Kofi Kingston v. Drew McIntyre (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
24.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
25.	Rey Mysterio/The Big Show/Kofi Kingston/Chris Masters/MVP v. Alberto Del Rio/Jack Swagger/Cody Rhodes/Drew McIntyre/Tyler Reks (Survivor Series 11/21/10)







Other contenders:


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

I RETURN FROM THE SHIT OF DEATH, and back to ECW ONE NIGHT STAND 2005....god help me...

*MATCH THREE: MEXICO PCYHOSISISISISISISISISIISISISIS vs. RAYMOND MYSTERIOUS*
Psychosis comes out with the mask on but then sheds it before the bell. 'LUCHA LIBRE' chant. Arm ringers and shit loads of other stuff. YAY IT'S MY LUCKY DAY. Fucking hell. Foley may not be the best co-commentator but he does offer some great insight. Foley, I LOVE YOU MAN. Most of these moves I can't even call because I do not follow luche libre. Wait...neither does most of the crowd but they holler anyway! Hahah the fucking dicks. Not much to say about this because I despise this kind of wrestling but Psychosis picks up Rey after a cross body attempt and drops him with an X-Factor (?). Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooh how awesome. Rey gets wrecked from an Irish whip. Call me a cunt but I never thought Rey Mysterio should be competing with guys much bigger than he. But then again, Pyschosis is not that much bigger. Ugh, GET IT OVER WITH YOU FUCKING SHITS. I WANNA SEE SOME BLOOD AND SOME TITS AND SOME FUCKING GUTS. THIS IS ECW GODDAMMIT. Sleeperhold?.....UUUGHHH noooooo. This match is dragging. HOLY SHIT first big move of the match - Psychosis drops a _VICIOUS_ leg drop from the TOP FUCKING TURN BUCKLE onto Rey who is on the guard rail. That was *AWESOME*. That wakes the crowd up big time. Replay shows again and it is INSANE. Fuck me, maybe the most insane move of the night, jesus. I feel for Psychosis' arse. That must've been painful. They're back in the ring and Psychosis - fuck me it's a chore spelling his name every time - misses a charge and lands on his fucking head. Calm down mate, you're gonna die. He's still favouring that leg as well. Crowd chants 'LUCHA LIBRE' just because. Yeah you guys know wrestling. Rey hits ANOTHER X-Factor....pretty sure we saw Psychosis hit that earlier! Two only. Psychosis takes another wicked bump outside into the arms of a hot blonde chick which I'M SURE HE PLANNED ALL ALONG. The fucking perverted beast. She seems happy anyway. But then here comes Rey with a fucking ...whatever it's called....SPLASH! Holy shit! This in fifth gear right now. A slow start but goddamn they kicked in afterwards. 619 gets BOOs! Take that WWE! West Coast Pump wins it for 1-2-3. Really good match after a slow start. ***

Rey celebrates and HERE COME THE FUCKING JOBBERS. Wait, they're not jobbers...they're the WWE Superstars goddammit! It's *KIRK ANGEL*, and *JUSTIN 'HAWK' DALLAS OIL BARON*, and *A LOAD OF OTHER FUCKING JOBBERS*. Crowd chants 'YOU SUCK DICK' to keep the angle alive and bustling. Good show boys and girls! Then they start chanting 'FUCK YOU SMACKDOWN!'. Good lord almighty. Well WWE you asked for it. To be fair to JBL he REVELS in this heat and it is fucking _glorious_. Somebody who doesn't get angry at a reception and takes it on the chin. Say what you want about JBL, but he was a GREAT heel. 

We cut away to another video package to show how great ECW was. I would describe everything in this but then again I'd have to be a fucking marvel...this is too quick. Steve Austin gets a clip during his 95 days. Just an amazing show of clips. Jerry Lawler is shown. Sabu getting injured (what a fucking surprise). Bill Alfonso. Beulah. Roowwwaaaarrr. *Nice*! But anyway...same old same old same old same old SAME OLD yes we know.

HA! Here is Joel Gertner! His typical dirty boy entrance is cut off by the bully boy Smackdown boys and JBL shoves him over to ENORMOUS heat. Fuuuuck. JBL gives him a few kicks for good measure because...well, as we will find out, he hates ECW fat boys. God, he is so angry. 

KURT ANGLE is on the mic but I need another piss and I'll continue this another time.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't remember that SVS tag being particularly good, never mind TOP 25 worthy for the year (lol  ). One day in the future I shall watch it again.

While I wait around SEVEN HOURS for the second part of my #WVWMWeek video to upload (after already waiting SEVEN HOURS for the first part to upload lol), posted NYR 06 ramble on my BLOG~! yey .

Watched WM 19 last night. Still love it. Opener still rules. Handicap match rules. Tag titles match rules. Jericho/HBK rules. Women's match is good. Booker/HHH rules. Rock/Austin rules. Lesnar/Angle rules. Hogan/Vince still sucks balls.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

:clap for that ECW ONS "review". Pure comedy GOLD.

Cal, HOGAN/VINCE DOES NOT SUCK. IT'S BETTER THAN ANGLE/LESNAR (well, the WM variety ).

@Yeah1993 See, didn't I tell you SVS was gonna be a good time (except for the World Title stuff)? Thought you were gonna rank the SVS Tag at least 20 positions higher w/all dat positivity on it tbh :lol Now you only have TLC to go, and you don't worry since that show is pretty fun to sit through. And Sheamus/Morrison is still, for myself, one of the best singles Ladder matches ever, so you're safe from a possible opinion drop I suppose. Btw, if you're ever gonna do more of these modern day list things, do THE SHIELD. For the love of your own good, DO THE SHIELD. You will not ever regret it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal's last two lines made me laugh. Rest of the WM 19 praise is p. spot on. 

KRANG's review is something else. Not sure what happened to the rest of ECW Barely Legal, but I probably missed it. Kurt Angle at ONS 05 though. So, so, so angry. He probably knew he was gonna end up in TNA.

Jheri's review; worth it for the line about a faction w/Del Rio, Rhodes, & Swagger having mustaches. And shitting on Kane vs Edge b/c it's CANCER.

Taker vs Triple H HIAC is poor minus the first ten minutes when Taker is kicking his ass. Then it dips into geeky WWE finishing stretch melodrama. Thankfully Taker wins so I can always put up w/it. And it isn't CANCER(x2) like WM 27. That's good. Not, wait, that's great. Fuck WM 27's match. Never again.

Cal also made me laugh not liking DDP vs Savage matches. This is why he can't have nice things. I almost made a Mysterio 619 joke instead of that, but perhaps that is too early. And I rather not have Rey catch wind of this and be sad again.

UNDERTAKER in about 12 hours. Yay.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

#ROOT said:


> Don't remember that SVS tag being particularly good, never mind TOP 25 worthy for the year (lol  ). One day in the future I shall watch it again.


Better than probably any Austin/Undertaker. :mark:



ATF said:


> Btw, if you're ever gonna do more of these modern day list things, do THE SHIELD. For the love of your own good, DO THE SHIELD. You will not ever regret it.


I'd like to do another modern WWE year just because they have so many matches and a big roster, and 2013 is something I do need to catch up on. No way in HELL I will ever watch every PPV from a single year past 2001 again though. Actually I wouldn't watch every PPV from 01 either so I could avoid Angle/Shane from KOTR. Least favourite match. 

Dunno if I'll do TLC soon. I might watch Mania and need to cancel my sub before that so I'll probably watch TLC another way.



Hayley Seydoux said:


> Jheri's review; worth it for the line about a faction w/Del Rio, Rhodes, & Swagger having mustaches. And shitting on Kane vs Edge b/c it's CANCER.


Cody had a moustache thing going a while ago and it got over which proves it should have happened.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's true.

And hey now, while most Austin vs Undertaker matches unfortunately do suck, JUDGMENT DAY 2001 happened to make sure they had one excellent match. That was their last match btw. I swear to no god it was.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Their last match was this really fun title match on Smackdown in late 2001.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Your swear would be right, Cody. We all agree it would be. Shame they never wrestled beyond that :side:.

Yeah93, doing 2013 is like entering a gigantic candy store w/your girlfriend who you found out actually DOES click w/you after all (see what I'm doing here?). It's like gem after gem after gem after gem after gem aft-you get what I mean. I seriously recommend you do that year. But more serious than that? LIST OF THE SHIELD. SHIELD. FUCKING SHIELD, MAN.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm confident that Yeah won't like 2013, so I recommend that he go through that list of workers that he needs to check out and review a few matches from each person on that list.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, I didn't meant that he should watch the shows in full (apart from a few that deserve it). But the list of good matches in 2013 is pretty massive. But even still... Shield project > 2013. Did I mention SHIELD yet? :ambrose :rollins :reigns2


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Going through WCW 1996. Slamboree 1996 might actually be worse than the oft-panned Uncensored PPV. You know those PPVs where nothing good happened, but nothing wrestlecrap worthy happened as well? A forgettable PPV that served no purpose? That's Slamboree. I don't even think a single match from that show has been reviewed in this thread before. Maybe zep reviewed it, but it was so forgettable that even he probably forgot about it.

Great American Bash 1996 though is awesome. Four matches that I would put around four snowflakes and The Outsiders killing Easy E. Regal/Sting in particular was as big of a carryjob as I remember, and it was pretty funny seeing Regal clearly spot-call for Sting. Can't wait for Bash at the Beach which has a match that might be my WCW MOTYC for 1996.

EDIT: Forgot to mention Dusty Rhodes acting like an idiot at the beginning of the GAB PPV by using Dick Murdoch's death as a segue to promote the PPV.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Pretty sure a certain sub-5 minute tag between 4 GOAT's from Slamboree has been talked about in here before. Highlight of the show, even if it was short.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao Mean Gene for some reason accuses Eddie Guerrero of being the "third man".


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Smackdown gave us another quality multi-man tag match in the main event this week. Cena, Reigns, Henry, & Bryan vs. Rollins, Kane, Big Show, & Wyatt. Most of the match was based around Cena vs. Rollins and making Reigns look strong, but there were some great displays from Rollins. Wyatt was virtually non-existent though. *** 1/4

So it's Wrestlemania Sunday and no one in here is talking about Wrestlemania. What a shame. Tonight's show should be great.

Any bold predictions? Heyman turns on Lesnar and sides with Reigns???


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I LITERALLY FORGOT WRESTLEMANIA WAS TONIGHT. That just teaches you how shambles this RTWM was, and how I care about this card :lol

This is the least excited I've EVER been about WM. And w/the exception of Orton/Rollins, I'm skeptical about every single match of the card. People excited about Taker, eh? Me... not too much, really. I know he fucking rules, but I'll never forget the memories of how not-Taker he looked last year. Especially bad is the prospect of seeing Taker inevitably go over Bray when Bray needs the win way, way more.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

UNDERTAKER WAS CONCUSSED BY _BROCK LESNAR_. OFCOURSE HE DIDN'T LOOK GOOD.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I FUCKING KNOW. I KNOW THE MATCH WAS KILLED BY A CONCUSSION.

BUT EVEN STILL, there's skepticism in my mind. What if both guys don't click all that well (this being the first time they ever interact in the ring for all my knowledge)? What if Taker just phones it in (I know it's heavily unlikely, but hey, it's the only time he shows up, he can simply go out there and do it without putting the UNDERTAKER HEART)? I know that you can think that way for every other match, but me personally, I just have a huge gutfeeling about this one. And trust me, I'm a Bray Wyatt fan, so Taker/Wyatt should sound unbelievably amazing on paper for myself. It's just... urgh, I can't really explain it. TAKER/WYATT'LL UNDOUBTEDLY BE AWESOME. There. (well I do hope it is) :side:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I don't care if Taker is 80 years old, I will still get downright giddy seeing that man make his entrance at WM. Last year was a fluke, an aberration, Taker got knocked silly so th match ended up being nothing special. This year that prob doesn't happen, Taker knows he only has to wrestle 1 match then he gets to go home for another year, he's going to give this match everything he has and Wyatt I'm sure will reciprocate. Now that the Streak is over, it's a really tough call as to who should win. Of course Wyatt needs the win infinitely more, but beating Taker again just diminishes Brock's accomplishment. And I just don't feel like seeing Taker lose again, I'm always going to want to see him standing tall at the end of WM. Then again a win for Wyatt can help erase his horrendous 2014, help elevate him back into that upper echelon again. Reigns is gonna need guys to work with after all, he can't just keep beating Rollins over and over again.

Outside of that Im not excited for any other match tonight. It'll be cool to see Sting make his debut but I don't have particularly high hopes for the match itself.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well guys, if the rumor IS true, then my concern may be fulfilled. Circumstance killed yet another Taker match, as Bray apparently injured his ankle in preparations earlier today. Not sure if bad enough to keep away from the ring, but certainly a handicap to the match they could've had if they BOTH had gone full madmen in there.

And btw, while Taker going 21-2 does put a stain in Brock's accomplishment, it also puts a giant spotlight in Bray's legacy as being the 2nd of only two guys ever to beat Taker at WM. Plus, Taker has the excuse that he had been humanized and weakened by Brock so much that even one year later he couldn't survive; thus Bray's return to Main Event status comes off w/a boom, and a potential super heel for years is born, erasing his Godawful 2014 record (thinking about said year, wasn't he supposed to be this huge top heel just by having a feud w/Cena alone? That's what people were saying. Vince agreed, as he pretty much ruined Bray's career w/the booking of that. And those people probably think the same regarding this match).

Look, I really don't wanna be THAT guy, and I do love the shit out of Taker (and I'm quite high on Bray as well), but I just can't feel anywhere near as positive for the match as you guys are. Maybe I'm dead wrong and it'll blow me away, to which I'll be the first to admit I was wrong and it was awesome. But until then, I really don't know.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

It's almost a foregone conclusion we are getting Taker/Sting at WM32 next year right? I could see a stare down tomorrow night. Maybe Sting saves Taker from a beat down from Wyatt (and Harper?) and Taker shakes him off and they have a stare down. Sting beats Wyatt at Summerslam. Building up Sting for Mania next year. 

It makes sense for Wyatt to go over tonight. Sting beats Trips. That way next year Taker is "fighting for his life" so to speak. That way when Taker beats Sting (I'd root for Sting but I see Taker winning in that scenario) he goes out a winner and still elevated Wyatt. I think Wyatt then wins the brief case and is champion sometime this fall. But who knows. I do wanna see a Sting/Wyatt match though. I say Sting works with HHH (obviously), Wyatt, Mayyyyyyyybe Rollins and Taker and calls it a career a year from now. 

Watching :angle :brock from WM19. Def the 3rd best match IMHO of their 3 but still a great match IMHO. God that botched shooting star is nasty to watch. I know a lot of you shit on :angle but the guy in his prime was a machine.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Didn't think I was gonna get my new video online BEFORE WM lol, but it's up! Finally! Took 16 hours in total :lmao. MY UPLOAD SPEED IS AWFUL :lmao. Also, debut of my new site! http://bigcalsworld.co.uk/ .

Will be doing a ramble on WM 2morrow. Since I ain't watching the show live, I'll likely do my ramble from my first time viewing, instead of watching it live, then downloading it the next day and watching it again to ramble on. Will post the ramble on my sites obviously, and on here too.

Gonna celebrate my video finally getting online after 16 hours by having cake. Chocolate Fudge Cake. YUM. Might watch some wrestling too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chocolate Fudge Cake this time of night? You brave man, Cal.

:yum:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'd do a full 2013 list for sure. I mean I saw more than enough Cesaro that year to know he was amazing, and six-man tags are one of WWE's strengths even when they DON'T have three guys that necessarily click together. I had a lot of fun watching the random SD main event a few weeks ago with Rowan/Ziggler/Ryback on the babyface team, and that's two of three guys I don't even like and one I've barely watched. Throw in a half a year of Goldust, and Bryan Danielson being the main man and yeah, that sounds pretty good. :lmao


I might as well watch Mania. Will probably tap out because of how long it is but w/e.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Tag Title match on the kickoff show was ridiculous amounts of fun.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

***1/2 for that Tag Match. Awesome stuff


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Anyone that likes Big Show is wrong.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Aw fuck it's started already!?

Also Flux reminded me via rep about the Show/ADR LMS, which reminded me I never saw ADR/Ziggler from Payback. Yeah, I need to do 2013 one of these days.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

@Yeah1993 , someone said on the last page (think it was FF) said you've got a list of wrestlers you need to see more of. I'm interested (i've got one of my own), fancy posting it? Or has FF just made something up and you don't really have a list and it's just a figment of his imagination?


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Pat Patterson is at least in the house. I don't have my hopes up, but him being Vince's right hand man many years, I hope that Pat Patterson has had a level of influence on at least some of these matches. A grave disadvantage to many of these talented but inexperienced greenhorns. 

As bad as this could be, it is Mania and I got my food ready so ITS SHOWTIME FOLKS.

edit: thus far, that tag match was a good effort, but too much of a cluster for me to even keep track of and the spots were too rapid imo. Would've been a fine battle royal with a different victor. Both imo. come short of last year, though last year's opener was pretty damn solid.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I know I'm not making it up. I'm holding on to the hope that some day he reviews matches from the likes of Hayabusa, Jerry Blackwell, and Rick Martel.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The Mizdow story line was the most well built up angle heading in to the show and they fucked it. FINALLY the WWE ran a several month long midcard programme from scratch with clear checkpoints, memorable moments and fun character development on both sides for the first time since like Punk/Rey 2010 or Ziggler/Ryder and THEY FUCKING RUINED IT :lol Fuck. Literally all that needed to happen was Mizdow punch Miz and eliminate him to win, and it would get one of the biggest pops on the show... But no.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Well there you have it. Show's over guys.


----------



## thevaliumkid (Jan 9, 2012)

That Ambrose bump was fucking brutal.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

The match was fun, but not as good as I'd hoped


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

D-Bry gets another Mania moment :mark:


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

IS DEAN AMBROSE STILL ALIVE GOODNESS. That was one of the most brutal bumps in several years. Looked like his head snapped in the ladder, but then again, Dean is a hell of a seller when need be. Fun match since I'm in a light mood albeit that was a corny and subpar finish. Other than that bump by Dean Fucking Ambrose, thought Harper took the spotlight there.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Dean Ambrose is dead. Whole show has been a blast thus far.


----------



## thevaliumkid (Jan 9, 2012)

DoubtGin said:


> The match was fun, but not as good as I'd hoped


Yeah. I hoped for longer, and a few more spots. Ladder matches arnt a patch on what the Hardy's/e&c/Dudley's were doing ten years ago.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

That IC ladder match was fun. I won't even try to rate it, I have a hard time rating these big multi man MitB style ladder matches because they aren't even wrestling matches really, just spots and spots and spots with little to no selling. I'm not a total curmudgeon they can be enjoyable and I had fun watching that one. I hope having Bryan win is a sign they are going to try and elevate the IC title, because Brock is going to retain tonight and continue his part time WWE title reign. Hell, Nakamura elevated the IC title so much in NJPW that eventually Tanahashi said fuck it and went after the IC title instead of the IWGP title and it even main evented a Tokyo Dome show if I'm not mistaken. If that's what they want to do with the IC title I'm all for it, but I think they should change the look of the belt. They buried this belt so comprehensively it'll be hard to recover, maybe if they went for a more ornate, classic, gem embezzled belt that could help refresh it. Who knows.

Orton/Rollins up next, let's hope Randy and Seth brought their A games. Never been big on Randy as a face in the ring but I'll give him a chance.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

In my opinion if Bray is really hindered, unless Sting can really turn the clock back and HHH puts on a career performance, this will be a shoe-in pure quality wise for MOTN.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

If Cena beats Ruseb, it'll look like Cena/Bryan is a lock for Summerslam then, right?

If Bray channels his inner Mankind and sells like Foley did at Mind Games but with his ankle, a minor ankle injury could add a neat little wrinkle to the match. Taker relentlessly targeting the ankle would be great also.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't have anything inherently against finisher kickouts at Mania, but that was a terrible time to do one.

EDIT: Evan Bourne tier RKO right there.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Orton in red trunks, wearing elbow pads, and doing a crossbody? Is he stuck in a time warp?

Also yeah, that was an idiotic time to kick out of a finisher. How long has the match even been going?


----------



## thevaliumkid (Jan 9, 2012)

An Orton match plodding along. Who'd have thunk it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Alright, all due respect to both guys, that was one unique and amazing finish. Never expected that because I don't know how that's even possible to do.

Match itself wasn't anything special but wasn't terrible. A little on the generic side and nothing really stood out other than the finish, and it did plod a bit, but I wasn't bored to tears watching it or anything.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I didn't mind that false finish point honestly. Both guys have the "flash finisher" thing going. The transition of the guys pausing to "think what they were gonna do next" was pretty awkward. Guess I'll be the only one who thought that was "good". Not great, certainly not great, but good. disappointing considering the great ability of both men, but good. Guess I spoke a little soon in calling it a shoe-in MOTY. Still though, thought it was good.

Props to Rollins for that air though and Orton as always bringing the awesome timing. What a visual finish.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

I thought Orton/Rollins was great.

****


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Great show so far!


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Orton winning is a really interesting decision... Even more reason for Brock to retain, seeing as he'll need new babyfaces to face and Orton winning puts him right up there. Maybe I'm clutching at straws, but I don't care. 

Edit: Gotta be at work in 7 hours :side:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HHH/Sting going on way too early right now. Crazy. 

Rollins will cash in tonight or tomorrow. I'd say it's a lock now.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

No Crow theme and they didn't wait until nightfall for Sting's ring debut entrance. What the fuck?


----------



## thevaliumkid (Jan 9, 2012)

Ok. That was ridiculous.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

AND HERE COMES ROBOCOP, BOB.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WrestlingOracle said:


> No Crow theme and they didn't wait until nightfall for Sting's ring debut entrance. What the fuck?


Show ends at 11 EDT, that's 8:00 PDT. Sun sets around 7:30. Only the main event is gonna happen in the dark, if we are lucky the sun will be a lot lower for Takers entrance but when they choose to do a show outside on the west coast in spring time there aren't really a lot of options.

I'm only saying this because when I saw Sting/Trips coming on I thought the exact same thing before I realized the complications.


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

WrestlingOracle said:


> No Crow theme and they didn't wait until nightfall for Sting's ring debut entrance. What the fuck?


Saving it for the other "good entrance" match that features a nonparttimer.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

ahhhh, the fuckery


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

this match is wacky


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

this is the stupidest match, ever. this is santino levels of bad. so bad, it's hilarious. who knew they'd turn it into a comedy match?


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

match was bad, but it was nice to see all of them in one ring


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'd be fine with this type of match on a normal Wrestlemania, but we have two more matches tonight that will have this sort of fuckery. Just imagine how bad the main event will be if this is just the third match of the night.

EDIT: Is there a Spanish stream of this event? JBL's commentary is historically bad tonight.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

I wouldn't have minded all the wackiness if Sting had won, but...what was the point of that match? What is this company doing? My brain is collapsing in on itself.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The fuckery was brought to a level that we could have never expected :lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

THE GAME WINS HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. VINCE bastardized nearly every stalwart but Sting. company ego at its finest, though to be fair, HHH was nearing Jericho status. 

by the way, if you think of the kayfabe order of things and how incorrect these run-ins are just to get a pop and for "wwe vs wcw branding" (much of which is either partially truthed or incorrect here ie: ignoring Sting/NWO and the clique who just showed up literally last saturday night , this is truly horrendous. Sting looked good, but goodness that was hilariously awful all around. Not one of the worst matches I have ever seen, as I've seen far too many to count, but wow that was ugly.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

A tad overbooked but enjoyed that to be honest. Too much marking out when DX were fighting against NWO. 

I wanted Sting to win  :/


----------



## thevaliumkid (Jan 9, 2012)

That was piss


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

I loved that, was expecting it to be near dud levels but that was awesome


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

That was the most gimmicked match I've seen this side of the DiBiase/Duggan Coal Miners Glove on a Pole Loser Leaves Town Cage Match. The fuckery was at an all time high, not to mention it made zero sense. Any wrestling fan worth their salt knows NWO feuded with Sting, and that Nash/Hall are buddies with all the DX guys. Talk about insulting our intelligence, all for a cheap pop. I don't understand why they chose to do it that way. But rest assured we will be told over and over by Michael Cole and JBL that this was a WrestleMania MOMENT!!!! Psh. With the No DQ stip I would have preferred a brawl with lots of weapons and props, the general WWE garbage, to what we actually got. Looks like Trips might have pulled/torn his hamstring or his glut, did you see that bruise?!


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Legends putting over D-Bry's title win. I love this.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I don't even fucking care how overbooked that was. Sting/HHH was incredible.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

JBL's commentary was fucking terrible during that match. Does a company that's been dead for 14 years really need to be buried?


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

I've never laughed as much as I did when I heard the D-X music and three jobbers started running to the ring. That was the stupidest shit ever. The rest was ok aside from the fucking handshake...what in the actual fuck? Why the fuck are they shaking hands? GTFO. "Congrats on failing, Sting! You have my respect!". Oh, how I love HHH.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Ya that bruise he had was disgusting. Nearly covered the entire upper leg. 

I get the whole point behind what they did, but that was awful. So awful that I'm laughing at the sheer stupidity. Nevermind that the entire Kliq was together last night on camera. 

I just can't :lmao


----------



## thevaliumkid (Jan 9, 2012)

In other news, I thought sting looked in great shape.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

I enjoyed Sting/HHH for what it was - it was never going to be a classic. But now it will always be remembered, not only for Sting making his debut in WWE at Wrestlemania but for NWO vs. DX :mark:


----------



## thevaliumkid (Jan 9, 2012)

Is anyone else kinda concerned its still blazing fucking sunshine and we've surely only got a divas match and cena left before taker?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

H said:


> Ya that bruise he had was disgusting. Nearly covered the entire upper leg.
> 
> I get the whole point behind what they did, but that was awful. So awful that I'm laughing at the sheer stupidity. Nevermind that the entire Kliq was together last night on camera.
> 
> I just can't :lmao


I know that's what made me so mad. It's just outright insulting the fans intelligence, I hate when WWE forgoes logic and realism just to do something they think will get a cheap pop, all it does it bring the level of the whole show down a notch. I'd like to just turn my brain off, watch wrestling, enjoy the show, and lose myself in the matches and allow myself to root for who I want to win. But you can't do that when you are constantly having to cringe at the outright bullshit they shove at you.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

The Game won :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :maury 

Jesus Christ the booking :maury


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Well, considering Brock looked like Jason Voorheese in his last outing and due to sponsors, Reigns cannot pull out a magnum and shoot Lesnar, it will take an all time beating to measure if Reings is going over (though that is more muddy now), and even if Reigns loses, Vince (who apparently has personally laid this match out), they will make Reigns look on par, which will mean a 40 minute beating. The problem with that is Brock is a fucking machine who can probably go an hour while Dullwind Duck sucks air in ten minutes during a Rumble. That said, I am shocked we are this far in too. I guess we gotta saddle up for some serious shenanigans.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Six minutes and forty seconds. #GiveDivasAChance


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Loved the ladder match. :yes

really enjoyed Orton/Rollins, hope he cashes in now. 

can't fucking believe sting lost

bellas losing :lmao


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Divas match was real solid. I think the show has been really fun as a whole (HHH/Sting was a little ridiculous) but I'm still waiting for a GREAT match. Two hours left and only 3 matches...


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Ruiner87 said:


> JBL's commentary was fucking terrible during that match. Does a company that's been dead for 14 years really need to be buried?


Rotf @ Vince & H's ego.

I get why people like WrestlingOracle were saying that H crowbarred his way into this match, and it's insulting, etc. Still, I actually found the build to be overall pretty good. The WCW vs. WWE thing is stupid, but that's the only thing that would motivate H's character in this feud, I guess.

It's just dumbfounding how the entire match was designed around that, including JBL's commentary and the handshake, when Sting explicitly said this past Monday that it's not about that.

So all that got thrown out of the window?! WTF?!

LMAO @ paying Sting major money just to job to H.

That reminds me of someone saying "Triple H paid Brock Lesnar $5 million to job to him."

That was a disgrace, and a waste of all of the money that could be made with Sting. Good Lord.

I get wanting to keep a more full-timer strong, but H isn't even a full-timer, and Sting coming to the WWE is a once in a lifetime thing. If you're going to have him job, don't waste it on this nonsense. The egos on Vince and H are something to behold.

Vince still has to keep showing and showing and showing that WCW is inferior. Even when it just hurts himself.

The match was overbooked, but it did make me LOL a lot, so it was entertaining, I have to say.

Sad thing is, Sting moved well, and showed that he still had something left in the tank. All for naught. Can't believe he started off with a dropkick, lol.


zep, where you at? lol


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Divas match was real solid. I think the show has been really fun as a whole (HHH/Sting was a little ridiculous) but I'm still waiting for a GREAT match. Two hours left and only 3 matches...


Cena/Rusev now has potential to be great, Wyatt/Taker will go for a while and I have a feeling there's a lot of stuff going to happen in Lesnar/Reigns.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Uso's/Kidd Cesaro/Los Matadores/New Day ***
Battle royal **
Missed the ladder match
Orton/Rollins ****
Sting/HHH ****1/4
Divas **1/4


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

If ever entrances tipped off who was going to win not accounting for jobber entrances: this is the match. If somehow, someway Vince gave the greenlight for Rusev to go out at Mania with that entrance, gives Cena this entrance and Rusev goes over somewhat clean, I will literally rise up out of the chair and give some applause. That isn't happening though.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

John Cena just turned heel with that Ronald Reagan reference.

In better news, I found this hilarious Twitter page with quotes from Dave Meltzer from the 90s. Apparently Rick Steiner was planning on going to law school :lmao


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

JOHN CENA SUCKS

COME ON RUSEV :mark:


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

WrestlingOracle said:


> If ever entrances tipped off who was going to win not accounting for jobber entrances: this is the match. If somehow, someway Vince gave the greenlight for Rusev to go out at Mania with that entrance, gives Cena this entrance and Rusev goes over somewhat clean, I will literally rise up out of the chair and give some applause. That isn't happening though.


Bray Wyatt got the big entrance last year and look who won :lol

Really hope Rusev wins though.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I have a feeling Cena will win though and we'll have a Cena vs Bryan unification.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

So far, honestly:

4-way tag - didn't catch
battle royal - *1/2
ladder - **3/4
orton/rollins - ***
sting/hhh - **1/4
tag - **

Hopefully Cena/Rusev and Taker/Wyatt can pull out a couple great matches. Sting/HHH could have been wacky and fun, and in turn great in its own way, but they had to make it about burying WCW instead of having a fun brawl. Might have taken off like *1/2 just for the finish alone.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Does Cena even try anymore? Lol


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

What the hell was that? If Cena is gonna go deep into the well, guy ought to whip out that emerald flowison he does real well or that twisting powerbomb he did frequently when he first came back from his tricep injury.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

ONE AA TO THAT MONSTEROUS BEAST YOU HAVE BUILT AS SUCH A FORCE FOR A YEAR :maury :maury :maury


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

Yeah, I'm not one to throw around the word "bury" but wow. That was such garbage. Rusev's flying headbutt was insane though.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

ugh, cena winning and sting losing. i'm not feeling good.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

One AA is how you hand Rusev his first ever pinfall loss? At least they didn't make him tap.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Meh, I liked the Rusev/Cena match. A little boring at the start but it picked up imo. Not mad at Cena winning as it was expected but the finish could have been done better.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Cena/Rusev was kind of boring, I thought. Cena phoned it in. The match was OK but it really could have been a whole lot more, because they're both better than that match.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

steph go away


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

Erik. said:


> One AA is how you hand Rusev his first ever pinfall loss? At least they didn't make him tap.


I thought he was going to lose via tapage because, ya know, patriotism and stuff.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Bumped the Battle Royal and the 4-way Tag off the card so we could have a 20 minute Authority promo.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

All these matches are going like 15 minutes or less. Wtf? Stop devoting all your time to entrances please.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

rock/hhh


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

steph please fuck off forever


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Cena/Rusev was bleh. Rusev was great and really tried his best but Cena phoned that shit in and the finish was complete horseshit. THAT is how you beat the undefeated monster? 1 AA and go fuck your self? 1 AA? I think at this point even a Diva would have kicked out of 1 AA, that's how credible that finish is. Horse. Shit. Only thing that could have been worse would be to tap him out to that abysmal STF Cena does. My god, Vince wtf is wrong with you? You used to know the art of making someone lose and keeping them strong. Hell youre the one who came with that classic finish for the WM 13 Bret/Austin match, both Bret and Austin didn't think it was a good idea but you stuck to your guns and you ended up being 100% right (except for the part about no blood, if they hadn't gone into business for themselves that finish wouldn't have worked nearly as well). But this is ridiculous. 

You want Cena to win? Fine, have Rusev take 2 AA's in a row with no pin attempt, then have Cena hit that Emerald Flowsion thing he does THEN pin Rusev. That keeps the AA strong because Rusev never kicked out of it, but it also keeps Rusev strong because it shows Cena didn't even think about pinning Rusev until he had given him every single thing he had to give. That took me .02 seconds to think of, you had months to come up with the finish to this match. The fuck, man.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

This is a RAW segment.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Motherfucker I have a strong feeling Taker/Wyatt are either getting shafted for this shit that is designed to get a media mention (cant believe Dana went with this), or Wyatt is hurt and this is compensation. One of the two and I hate both scenerios. Motherfucker.


----------



## Thedinbych (Apr 2, 2012)

It Ms american badass taker


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Taker seems to be in good shape. This will probably rule :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Diggin the ABA look that Taker has :mark: :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I actually kinda like this match. Bray's facial expressions and Undertaker's selling are on point.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Match was actually quite nice. Pace was an issue at times, but Taker's GOAT selling (seriously, was he injured?) and the overall atmosphere did it for me.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

22-1. Loved the spider crawl/sit up spot.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Everything's been good, if Brock retains this will be a great show.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

The match will get shit on by those who fancy the fast paced matches and spot fests but I enjoyed it, it's the sort of match I like. Taker is a master of his craft and Wyatt shows maturity beyond his years. Whilst I'd have loved Wyatt to go over, he looked strong, it took two tombstones to beat him.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Spider walk/Sit up spot was perfect. The match was very good, and easily MOTN so far. I didn't expect anything from it really, but when Taker came out actually looking like he was in good shape, I knew they were going to pull it off. ***3/4


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Jesus Christ Stephanie needs to fuck off forever. If you're gonna be so annoying at least take an armbar from Ronda. Lana took a bigger bump FFS.

Bitch


----------



## El Dylan (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues &amp; Bobby Eaton*

This match was awesome to me.

Especially considering the age of Taker and the injury of Bray. It makes it look brutal for both of them. Great selling even if it's maybe unintentional. That slugfest sequence was extraordinary, as well as the spider crawl / sit up spot.

****


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

Taker looked like he was going to die out there. Hopefully he done.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Undertaker with phenomenal (pun intended but seriously) selling. That spot where his head bounced off the mat and that taking some spring out of his step and his disoriented look the rest of the time: I legitimately couldn't tell if he was hurt or selling. Taker's always been a king at leg selling, but jeez that loopy effect selling was fantastic. Bray's offense and expressions/motions were great. Was that match a bit "wweized" and pretty basic? sure, but I legit enjoyed that match. Wasn't completely great, certainly not up there with the rediculous zenith Taker established, but I thought that was quite solid. ***3/4. 

Taker physically looked the best he had been since the Michaels matches and hell mobility wise seemed to function the best hell probably since he got in serious shape to hold the WH title. Can we somehow coax Taker to stick around for one last mini run?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

believe all you want, because you CANT


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Taker/Wyatt was literally nothing. I have no idea how to describe what I was watching. Some punches, an injured guy, an old man, and some slow ass finishers.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I can't remember anything from Taker/Wyatt. I sat here watching it intently, but for the life of me I remember nothing other than the 2 finisher kick outs and the finish. Weird. I'll have to rewatch tomorrow to give an opinion on it.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

FUCKING YES!!!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Holy shit lol I can't believe they ended Mania like that. Better than Reigns winning that's for sure.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Fatal Four Way Tag Match: ****1/4*
ARMBAR: ***
Seven Man IC Ladder Match: ******
Randy Orton vs. Seth Rollins: ***3/4*
Sting vs. Triple H: ****
Paige/AJ vs. Bella Twins: ****
John Cena vs. Rusev: ***1/2*
Undertaker vs. Bray Wyatt: ****1/2*
Brock Lesnar vs. Roman Reigns vs. Seth Rollins: ****************************


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

:mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

That was amazing. :mark:

SETH MOTHERFUCKING ROLLINS


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

OH MY FUCKING GOD YES I CALLED THAT SHIT


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Shows like this are why I love this shit, guys. Great show and absolutely amazing ending. The main event was even better than I expected (thanks, Brock) and then the cash in. Amazing. :mark: 

Rock and Ronda, I marked for that too. This show was something else. I loved it. I gotta go to Wrestlemania 32.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Main event was terrific, even before the cash in. Brock bleeding all over the place, SUPLEX CITY BITCH, Reigns selling pretty well, GLOVES COMING OFF, ROLLINS getting THROWN while Brock takes a spear, Rollins hitting the curb stomp on Reigns to win. 

:banderas


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

OH MY GOD YES FUCK YES :mark: :mark: :mark:


And damn, Reigns stiffed the fuck out of Lesnar :lol


----------



## RATED R RULES (May 27, 2007)

Much like last year this one will be marked down on match quality by the majority in here (rightly so I guess) but entertainment value wise it was brilliant. 
The ending was GOAT booking for me. Some absolutely stiff and epic brawling with Lesnar looking the flipping man yet again, Reigns looked strong in a way too for hanging with Lesnar even if he had to take the pin and Seth slots right in to that sleezeball opportunist character even more. Loved how he sprinted the heck outta the ring and all the way up the ramp to get away with the title too. Loved that booking to fuck.
And this was on the same show as that utter clusterfuck Sting/HHH match. Talk about bipolar
Would need to watch the matches back to attribute STARZ but yeah as I said just like last year nobody could say they weren't entertained here even if there were no classics and some shoddy stuff littered here and there. Why I love this business. For nights like that. Raw tomorrow is MUST SEE.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

That main event was shaping up to be something special. Then Rollins cashed in and my worst fears arose... but somehow they made it work and fit in well. A genuine shock ending that was actually different, refreshing and welcome. How about that? Can't wait to see Lesnar MURDER Rollins in a one on one match down the line to make up for those sneaky shenanigans :mark: 

Reigns looked fantastic, despite getting absolutely wrecked, came across as everything that Heyman hyped him up to be, and more. Brock's strikes are stiffer than decade old jeans that are regularly washed without detergent. Blood from both put this ott in the way you would want. Reigns' selling was good, made him look fucked over, yet still tough, resilient and up for the fight. Wasn't overly keen on Brock shrugging off so many Reigns finishers in quick succession, but I guess the argument for that working is how he recieved very little punishment for most of the match previous to that. Still not keen on the diminishing affects this has on finishers, but this is WWE 2015 so obviously standard. Did make me think Brock might lose at that point so it worked from that perspective, so not all bad. Final F5 before Rollins came out also got me. 

Rollins going over Reigns made perfect sense as Reigns had been wrecked, while it also means Brock technically didn't lose due to not being pinned and all of the other shenanigans. I'm sure some will moan that making the match an impromptu triple threat was fuckery (and it was), but it worked here and made for a new star who is ready. The booking protected all three men involved, made a new star and allowed Reigns to back away from the title so he can rebuild his credibility (that performance would have helped him a lot tbf). All in all, this was well done, if a tad unconventional. Just got to hope that WWE produce something good with Rollins as WWE champion now...

So yeah Brock vs Reigns vs Rollins, whatever the fuck that was ****

Rest of the show:

Ladder match IC title **

Just your typical modern WWE gimmick match with high spot over kill. The opening few minutes were comically bad for that. Ambrose bump on on the ladder was stupid and dangerous as fuck, yet I didn't care because they had made me numb with all the dives and big bumps before that. Disappointed that they didn't tie in the Truth thief story, with him making a big deal over potentially "stealing" the win when all of the other wrestlers were wasted. You know, because that was the only real angle going into this match. Built some nice tension at the end. Happy that Bryan won.

Orton vs Rollins **1/2

Nothing really wrong with this, apart from Orton's offence which was too slow and cumbersome at times. Proper going through the motions when the feud called for COKED UP Orton to unleash some hatred. This was run of the mill stuff barring a few really smooth sequences which looked credible, but lacked a bit in a gritty sense. Finish was fantastic. I was concerned that the replay would expose it as looking phony as fuck, but it actually looked just as good through the close ups. Would have thought the result was stupid given that Rollins lost despite the vanilla midget Patterson and Briscoe interferences, but the MITB cash in salvaged that a tad. Still, would have been no harm in putting Rollins over, when Orton already gained his revenge with that extended beat down on Raw, after making Rollins look like a fool via manipulation.

Sting vs HHH - DUD

You know something is wrong when the overly contrived, nonsensical, laughable, cheesier than Red Leicester with a topping of Parmesan entrances were the highlight of this whole dumbfuckery. Why were the nWo helping Sting? Why was this about wcw vs wwf (nWo vs DX) when Sting said it wasn't? HHH should get a refund from Walmart for his sledgehammer (assuming that's where he got it, seeing as apparently you can buy bloody GUNS there, fuckern warz!). Yes I can TOTALLY BELIEVE Nash would turn on HHH. The amount of stalling and distractions in this would have made wcw Hogan proud. Maybe he booked this shit seeing as he was involved. Pure Wrestlecrap that I would expect from a Russo booked TNA show. Well, I suppose Sting did spend close to 14 years there. Handshake at the end made me feel entirely incredulous. That was typical HHH at his worst melodramatic forced bullshit.

Rusev vs Cena **

Pretty fucking boring with Cena in peril for most of the match. Rusev's offence was decent at times but he never really built any momentum that could trick the crowd (or me) into suspending their disbelief, thinking he might win. Cena comeback was the laziest phoned in shit that he's capable of. He can do much better than that. Accolade break out spot was cliche but I guess it worked in this story. At least the match wasn't horrific, unlike that pro Yank propaganda bullshit before Cena entered the ring. Using George Bush in a promo package for a supposed babyface :moyes1 Oh my days.

Taker vs Wyatt ***

Honestly, this wasn't much different to the previous match in terms of how boring it was for long stretches. The differences however, came in the finishing sequence, quality of overall story telling and Taker's selling. Feeding in the concept of Taker's concussion vs Brock from last year worked for me, with Wyatt battering the shit out of Taker's head. Taker shaking and looking genuinely ill as a consequence of this looked believable. Wyatt knee to Taker onto the ring steps looked utterly crap, looked like Wyatt just decided to run into the steps like a mong while avoiding Taker. Crowd was into the finishing stretch. The stuff with the spider vs deadman sit up, essentially showing that Wyatt isn't quite the new face of fear just yet, was well done and recieved a merited reaction. They also firmly believed Wyatt might win when he kissed Taker's forehead before the reversed sister Abigail. Sheer audible panic right there. Got to say my heart was in my mouth for a moment too. Finish was exactly what it needed to be. Probably could have done with being a couple of minutes shorter by cutting out the boring stalling and crap offense, but this was decent as a story, despite not being a stellar fight.

Oh yeah and that nonsense Authority promo. I like Rousey, but WWE are such fuck heads when they allowed the heat Steph built from burying the divas and emasculating members of the male roster, plus the impact of HHH beating Sting, being put into giving a rub to a part timer and someone who isn't part of the company. What in the actual fuck? :moyes4


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Taker/Wyatt was literally nothing. I have no idea how to describe what I was watching. Some punches, an injured guy, an old man, and some slow ass finishers.


Yeah, it felt like a paint by the numbers Undertaker match, which is depressing as fuck. Where was all of the character work?!

Where was a storyline of Taker seeming like he had lost it?!

Taker looked great physically, and the moves were far more polished than in the Lesnar match, but he still looked gassed and therefore kind of old to me.

Bray was gassed too, which I never normally think, so maybe he really did get injured on those stairs. He was still nursing his legs looong after it, so maybe he wasn't just selling. 

I mean he's more animated when fighting R-Truth, so why not here?!

It wasn't a terrible match, but I'm disappointed in how uneventful it was. Almost like creative must have rejected any ideas, and just said do a normal match. Plus the age & injuries made it even more blah than it was booked anyway.

Meh, there was no point to that, especially with Bray just losing anyway. If Sting is not gonna even challenge the Undertaker, what the fuck was the point of Bray losing? Not that Sting vs. Taker would need Bray to lose anyway, but whatever.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Hate to say I told ya so: but I said if Brock and Reigns go out there and throw hands: they can get something good. I hated Reigns kicking out of 4 fucking F5's and laughing at Brock's offense in a Joker to Batman esque way when Reigns is the face, but that was still solid. I could give Reigns alot of flack for stuff in that match, but I give him credit that you could tell Brock told Reigns to stiff him, and Reigns sure did. There hasn't been a Reigns solo performance I have liked yet (and I think i have seen them all), but he did a good job following Brock's lead there. One hell of a performance by Brock though. "welcome to suplex city bitch", that open hand slap, whipping out both that beautiful belly to back and even the release fisherman he hadn't done in years, selling that blood was great. Heck, I liked the angle taken where Brock is Jason Voorhesse on the regular, but as a mortal can bleed and I liked how they centered the blood around the story to where that really disoriented Brock so much since he is never busted. I actually give kudos to both men and if it weren't for me hating the kick out of 4 F5's/all those suplexes and Reigns laughing at Brock's offense at one point as a babyface despite getting a hellacious beating, I would give it ****1/4. As it sits, I still think it was a ***3/4 contest. *You all know that I am a sucker for physicality/sensible violence woven into psychology of matches. *

As for the ending: I can't believe Vince pulled the trigger on that. Rollins may not be what I think of when I think of a top notch wrestling champion, but he was the sole bright spot on so many horrid raws for literally a multiple month stretch there, that for that alone, he deserves it in my book when they have given the belt to less talented guys. Guy certainly has been money in the ring that is for sure. Nice ending to keep everyone on their toes. Now, we got Brock with a claim to the belt as "the champ that never lost", Reigns feeling "he got robbed his 1v1 shot", Orton with a claim since he beat the champ 1 on 1. I gotta wonder too if they now use Lesnar in a pre- "emotions" Masked Kane type role of a rampaging, pissed off, rarely talking monster with Heyman ditching him for say Seth. I can't see J&J sticking around too much longer with Rollins entering a whole new level. Fella coming back makes even more interesting. An interesting ME scene for now, Bryan and Cena in the midcard: things look to be on the short term upswing. 

My initial ratings in total:
Tag match: **1/2
Battle royal: **1/4
Ladder match: fun, but impossible to rate
Orton/Rollins: ***1/2
HHH/Sting: head scratching shit. ZERO
Divas: **3/4
Rock/Rousey segment: bleh bullshit
Taker/Wyatt: ***1/2 (settled down abit from that ***3/4 after reflecting and calming down from marking for an in shape Taker. still thought it was solid and my selling comment/Bray praise still stands)
Rusev/Cena ** for Rusev's quite solid effort. 
ME: ***3/4 that could go up if I settle down abit off my initial positionn
ending: Good and quite interesting


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Wrestlemania 31*

*WWE Tag Team Championship - Fatal Four-Way*
Cesaro & Tyson Kidd vs. New Day (Big E & Kofi) vs. The Usos vs. Los Matadores - *** 1/4

Andre The Giant Memorial Battle Royal - ** 1/2

*Intercontinental Championship - Ladder Match*
Bad News Barrett (c) vs. R-Truth vs. Dean Ambrose vs. Luke Harper vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Stardust - *** 1/2

Randy Orton vs. Seth Rollins - *** 1/4

*No Disqualification*
Triple H vs. Sting - ** 3/4

Paige & AJ Lee vs. The Bella Twins - ** 1/2

*United States Championship*
Rusev (c) vs. John Cena - ** 3/4

The Undertaker vs. Bray Wyatt - **

*WWE World Heavyweight Championship*
Brock Lesnar (c) vs. Roman Reigns - **** 1/4​
- I'll include both preshow matches in one paragraph. Really enjoyed each of them. Tag Title match was ridiculous amounts of fun. Bodies were LITERALLY flying everywhere and everyone got to shine (I think). Finish was great too. Battle Royal I thought was booked really well. Everyone that came in as a major player had their 'Wrestlemania moment' per se. Itami had his little scuffle with Big Show after eliminating Titus, Ryback looked incredibly dominant and I had him pegged as the winner all along, Mizdow finally turned on Miz, and I don't have any problem with Big Show winning. He's been around so long that he deserves it. Plus, ya know, he _is_ an actual giant.

- Ladder match was a blast. They didn't go wild with the spots like they have in year's past but it didn't bother me. Harper looked like a killing machine and Dean Ambrose is probably dead. Went nuts when Barrett started hitting all those bullhammers in succession. Exciting finish.

- Orton vs. Rollins I was honestly expecting more from, but I still enjoyed what they gave us. Rollins showed off his awesome athleticism and we got a lot of RKOs.  A fun match all around with one absolutely cool ass finish. 

- HHH vs. Sting was a tale of two matches. First off, another epic entrance from Hunter. Cool shit there. I barely heard the match was No DQ to begin with, so when they started actually wrestling I thought it was gonna be another great technical contest like last year's HHH/Bryan. Had they stayed that course I think I would've been ok with it. Instead we got a bunch of wackiness and overbooking that I don't think ANYONE saw coming. Didn't Sting say this had nothing to do with WCW vs. WWF on RAW? Could've swore he did, yet that's exactly what they made this out to be. The whole thing was pretty silly considering Hogan & Nash's involvement when they're not exactly "loyal" WCW guys, but whatever. Can't lie though, I lost when my shit when HBK hit Sweet Chin Music. An undoubtedly fun entertainment spectacle, but Hunter winning makes little sense to me and I cant see myself ever watching this again. Sting looked in great shape so it's a shame it was wasted on all this overbooking nonsense. The bat breaking the sledgehammer too. :lol

- Divas match was completely watchable. No complaints whatsoever. I enjoyed it.

- Cena vs. Rusev was weird. It was almost a sprint, which doesn't really suit either one of these two guys. Cena busted out some different moves (a slingshot stunner!?) but Rusev looked fantastic here. He's such a stud and it's a joke how he lost his first match. A complete fucking joke. I HATE AA out of nowhere finishes. Despise them. I don't even understand why Lana was on the apron. Cena had relinquished the hold already. Whatever. Why are all these matches so short tonight?

- What the hell was Taker/Wyatt? As I said before, literally nothing of note happened. Taker got his opening shit in (which was great btw), and then the match died. Wyatt did nothing interesting on offense except hurt himself, and then they started trading finishers in a reaaaallllly slow fashion. Both guys were clearly limited and Taker looked like a dying old man late in the match. Disappointing.

- My thoughts on the main event: :mark: :mark: :mark: I'm not even kidding. That was me the whole match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Flux said:


> @Yeah1993 , someone said on the last page (think it was FF) said you've got a list of wrestlers you need to see more of. I'm interested (i've got one of my own), fancy posting it? Or has FF just made something up and you don't really have a list and it's just a figment of his imagination?


I made it like 2 years ago and if I remember right it was 120 people/tag teams long, just from the US. :lmao No idea where the hell it is but the jist was that I'd watch and write about at least 10 random matches about the wrestler/team I found on the web. I did that with a couple back then. I'll try to find it. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> I know I'm not making it up. I'm holding on to the hope that some day he reviews matches from the likes of Hayabusa, Jerry Blackwell, and Rick Martel.


Blackwell sure isn't someone I need to see more of. Well he is b/c he's Blackwell and limited footage, but in 2012 I went out of my way to see literally every single Blackwell match I could find on the web unless it was on the AWA set. I'm hoping a lot more has popped up since then. Blackwell is one of my favourite wrestlers of all time.


---------

I did actually watch Mania. Lesnar/Reigns was pretty fucking awesome and I don't reallllly want to complain about the finish, but a match that good deserves a regular end. Oh who am I kidding I wanted the Authority to side w/ Reigns by screwing Brock and bloodying up Heyman. 

Good God Stephanie is bad right now. She didn't even want to show fear to Ronda Rousey. Give it up, bitch, you aren't that intimidating. The video package to Sting/HHH having her calling WCW a "small pond" was an eye-roller too. Sting/Trip was surreal and honestly mildly fun just to see who would turn up next. I kind of appreciated that they knew they couldn't do an 'epic' so they just went for carny ridiculousness. How it started I thought they were going to try a lame remix of Rock/Hogan. HHH winning was bad. HHH's entrance was worse. I thought it might be the stupidest Mania entrance of all time when terminators were rising from the floor. I thought it definitely was the stupidest Mania entrance of all time when Trip rose from the floor wearing that silver nonsense.

Last note is I thought Rollins/Orton was enjoyable enough that if I did a 2015 list I'd have to re-watch it. Maybe I just paid attention at the right time; I do acknowledge there was obvious time-filler. The finish smoked any other 'holy shit' RKO - or sweet chin music - finish they've ever tried to do. Also LMAO @ the ref telling Noble not to interfere AFTER Noble ate an RKO and was rolling around on the floor in pain.



LilOlMe said:


> Sad thing is, Sting moved well, and showed that he still had something left in the tank. All for naught. Can't believe he started off with a dropkick, lol.


I thought that too. It got me annoyed as fuck because it looked like he could have been having really good matches for the past 12 years if was anywhere other than TNA.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Vince isn't staying with Rollins for long, IMO. He has transitional champ written all over him.

What works in his favor is that I doubt Vince has a grand back-up plan. Reigns WAS the plan. Now where does Vince go?

Reigns looked visibly so bummed, agitated, and nervous when he came out. Just looked way over his head. Put me on edge, and made me feel bad for him. I could feel his tension.

At the time I thought he was dreading the reactions, because he does not handle that well. Now I wonder if he was pissed that Vince wasn't going with him. I wonder how far in advance he knew? It was probably like "these assholes really don't need to boo me, when the office has given up on me anyway." lol.

I was enjoying Mania up until the Rousey confrontation, and found everything watchable, yet also didn't feel that this was an amazing Mania. Surprised by some of the reactions on this board. Especially when it comes to match quality.

What was the point of the Bellas vs. AJ/Paige match, btw? The storyline wasn't advanced whatsoever. Bellas looked dominate, and AJ was barely involved, yet randomly wins with the Black Widow? Why the fuck even book the match?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Tag titles: ***1/4
Battle royal: *3/4

Ladder match: ***3/4
Orton/Rollins: ***1/2
Sting/HHH: ***1/2 (wrestling sucked, but the spectacle and moment of it all... I loved it. I was a child again.)
Divas tag: **
Cena/Rusev: **3/4
Taker/Wyatt: **1/2
Lesnar/Reigns: ***1/2


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Anyone that is rating Taker/Wyatt higher than Orton/Rollins are either insane or need to have their eyes checked. I love Taker as much as anyone but that match was about as paint by numbers as it gets.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Damn, I'm sounding negative on this Mania and I actually enjoyed it, but the ladder match was just enjoyable to me. Nothing special. Wouldn't go higher than *** 1/2.

Also, while I found Lesnar/Reigns enjoyable, don't see how it would be rated a great match. I felt that it was far more compelling the first time with Lesnar/Cena SS '14 (did you ever see this, Yeah1993?). 

Brock blading himself (seemed an obvious blade job) just made me roll my eyes, because you could see it coming a mile away, after Reigns "he bleeds" comments, and all of the foreshadowing.

The grotesque kicking out after 3 F5's was stupid.

Reigns laughing things off was stupid, when there was no pay off of him even winning, and not only that, he's the one who ate the pin.

The whole thing was just full of ideas that could work...but that's all that it was. It wasn't coherent, and it didn't have much of an end game.

Brock's always enjoyable to watch when he's beating ass, but it's puzzling to me how that match could be rated highly.

Reigns sold looking sick from those suplexes really well, but I've always said that he's good at selling things like that well. That's one thing he doesn't get credit for.

In short, SS '14 was a lot more cohesive, and was of a similar vein minus the Reigns laughing.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I think Brock/Reigns was more closer to being in the realm of Brock/Cena from 2012 instead of 2014. I loved all 3 matches so it doesn't really matter, but the sheer brutality of the match with Reigns is a sight to behold. It felt like a legitimate street fight. Just insane. Pair that with the unpredictability of what would actually happen and who would actually win and I thought it SHATTERED everything else on the show.

Reigns laughing off some of the punishment was kinda stupid, but it was a minimal problem for me because there wasn't some corny comeback to go along with it. I 110% thought Reigns was gonna win after the spear though. I nearly shit myself.

Do you actually think Lesnar bladed? I can't see how he could've done it so quickly after the post shot. It was almost instantaneous.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Kinda shocked by some of the general reactions I am reading across the board (many of us seem to be on the same page in this thread though or at least reading the same book ). I am seeing people literally call this Mania "the most entertaining mania in years". Now, I had fun watching this mania through the pretty good and the ass ugly, but jeez, I didn't think this even touched the roller coaster, historic and quite satisfying Mania 30. This mania did exceed my expectations though: I was thinking this was going to be a modern disaster in all honesty. Sure, as I said, parts of this mania were horrendous, but it was a fun show if no one took it too seriously. That said, "the best in years" is some extreme hyperbole imo: but we all have opinions.


----------



## El Dylan (Jun 28, 2011)

Tag titles: **
Battle royal: **

Ladder match: ****
Orton/Rollins: ***1/2
Sting/HHH: ***
Cena/Rusev: ***1/4
Taker/Wyatt: ****
Lesnar/Reigns: ****1/4

Excellent WM.



Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I see you guys referencing a Bray injury before the match even started. So I guess that explains a lot of my complaints. 

What happened to his ankle?

Also, can't get over how much of an afterthought Sting was treated as. Went way early; Triple H got just as big of an entrance; he lost; and by the time the Rock/Rousey thing happened, he was long forgotten about, until H mentioned beating him. Most importantly, I lol'ed at Rock talking about creating a WM moment, as if Sting being at WM isn't a WM moment in and of itself. I don't blame Rock, because it wasn't treated as such.

He was treated so insignificantly in comparison to what you'd think for a first Sting WWE match.

He really should have just waited and refused to sign unless he faced Taker next year.


@Jack Evans 187, Seth cashing in was unpredictable, but aside from that, it didn't feel questionable throughout the match. I guess maybe that's why I wasn't sucked in? I knew there was no way that Brock was gonna just beat Reigns clean. It's like you knew that the beating was leading to a comeback or cash in, so it was whatever, IMO.

I guess where we differ is that I didn't feel that it was anything more brutal than the typical Lesnar match, especially as of late. And the whole "Lesnar floors someone repeatedly" was just done at SS '14. Just there was nothing new here, and the "oh, shit" impact of seeing someone who's usually dominate get treated like a rag doll, wasn't there any more.

I've seen people blade super fast. IIRC, you can see Shawn do it in his HIAC match with Taker. Lesnar had his arm up on the pole, so I assume that's when he did it. The cut was in the exact area it always is when they blade, so it seemed like an obvious blading to me. Plus, he hit the middle of the pole. I see no reason why that would bust him open, especially because he had his arm there to protect himself.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Thought WM would be much worse than it turned out. 

Enjoyed the ladder match, Seth vs Orton, and Cena vs Rusev. Also enjoyed Brock owning in the main event. And Seth cashing in was pure sex.

The segment with Ronda Rousey was sick as well though it woulda been nice had she put Steph in an armbar and made her tap.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

My ratings for Mania:

Tag match: Haven't seen yet
Battle royal: **1/2
Ladder match: ***1/2
Orton/Rollins: ***1/4
HHH/Sting: Need to rewatch
Divas: **
Taker/Wyatt: ***
Rusev/Cena **1/2
Lesnar/Reigns: ****

Lesnar vs. Reigns is Reigns' best singles match by a country mile. Helps that they were really stiff with each other and made it look real, but kudos to Reigns for taking the punishment he did. Some of those suplexes and strikes looked absolutely brutal. Also can't believe it ended up being my MOTN, when I was certain it would be the worst or one of the worst going into it. Reigns finally had that elusive great match though, so he's not completely hopeless but I'm still far from sold on him unless they're going to make that type of match become a normal thing for him, which they're not (and they shouldn't). 

I don't include Rollins in that because his little part was a whole separate thing, but it was awesome and saved the ending for me. Reigns kicking out of the third spear was a bit much as that's what put Taker down last year. However getting into Rollins, that was awesome. Him winning the title saved the end of the night for me. Lesnar was also protected, which was nice. 

Now onto the rest of the show:

I missed the tag title match on the pre-show as I was driving.

I came in shortly after the battle royal started. Frankly, the rating is all on Sandow and how awesome he was/how hot the crowd was for him. I could almost swear he got the best reaction of the night, or at least second to Rock. When he threw Miz over the crowd exploded. He had a good little segment with Big Show which as I mentioned in the official thread, sums up Sandow's career. They look to finally give him something good and make him credible, but then they sweep the rug out from underneath him. He's a comedy act for this very reason, ultimately he can't win the big one and no matter how talented and entertaining the man is, no matter how over he gets, he'll never be able to overcome this booking. However the segment with Big Show was really good in teasing he may almost be able to get it done, but not quite. Disappointing as Big Show doesn't need the win, I would've preferred Sheamus coming back and starting a heel run off of doing that (and I didn't want that either, but it's the lesser of two evils). Of course I just think maybe Ryback should have eliminated Show and Miz eliminates Ryback from behind to set-up Miz/Mizdow for the finale. But Vince wants what Vince wants, and that's apparently to keep Big Show looking strong. 

Ladder match was a great, enjoyable match with a lot of very sick looking spots. BNB destroying guys with the rung (shades of when he did it in MITB a few years back), Ambrose going through the ladder, the multiple dives and that ending sequence between Bryan and Ziggler made for a very entertaining match. I'm fine with the Bryan win. Not my first choice as I would've preferred they just keep the title on Barrett and start booking him fucking correctly, or Ambrose win it since he was the one that started this whole build. However, Bryan I'm cool with winning it and hopefully the purpose in that is to bring prestige back to the title.

Orton/Rollins was a really good match. Can't say anything really stuck out at me until the very end with that very sick curb stomp counter into the RKO, but good match.

Sting/HHH... match itself was terrible. However I marked for the NWO vs. DX brawl... hell I :mark: when I heard NWO's music and saw Hogan/Hall/Nash comes out. Awesome moment. Got a bit too cluster fuckish and I don't know if I agree with HHH winning. That all comes down to if Sting wrestles again or not. If that was Sting's only match ever in WWE, then I'm perfectly fine with HHH going over. If Sting is going to wrestle again though, and against Taker of all people next year, he really needed this win and WWE basically sabotaged Taker/Sting's credibility in order to fuel HHH's ego and a match with The Rock (as well as do the lesser Rock/HHH match instead of the big attraction of Rock/Lesnar). Then they do the handshake at the end which makes no sense because later on HHH is still a heel... yeah, gonna rewatch match as it was terrible, but awesome for the reason above. Very mixed feelings as a whole.

Divas match was decent.

Rusev vs. Cena was alright... we all knew it was coming, but it's still a shame they built Rusev up just to be fed to Cena. Hopefully the US Title being on Cena helps it out, and with the IC Title being on Bryan, maybe all the singles titles can have some good focus.

The Rock/Rousey/HHH/Steph segment dragged way too long. It was good, and I enjoyed the action at the end of it, but I hate was it means... we're getting Rock/HHH next year (Rousey/Steph I'm all for though)... and that's instead of Rock/Lesnar which is ridiculous. It's almost like they don't want to sell out Mania next year, or HHH's ego is just too big that he needs to be in the biggest match. I don't know, but it's absurd it looks like we're getting Rock/HHH when Rock/Lesnar has to be on the table with Lesnar re-signing. It's as absurd as doing Sting/HHH instead of Taker/Sting this year when Taker ended up competing at Mania. It's doing the lesser of two matches for no reason seemingly other than to feed someone's ego. Atrocious. Segment itself wasn't too bad, but the dragging and what it signifies just puts a damper on things.

Taker/Wyatt... I've never been so pissed about a Taker win in my life. He comes back more or less the same as he's been, after not showing up all feud, and just beats Wyatt. Why? Wyatt needed this win after that abomination of a feud with Cena. Now with the loss, Wyatt is back to square one and Taker... well, he's Taker. Match itself was good as a whole, a bit blah at points and one of Taker's weaker Mania matches, but it's better than the Brock match last year at least. A few cool spots with Taker countering Sister's Abigail into the chokeslam, and the spider walk/sit-up spot was epic. Wyatt's reactions were awesome. I think this ankle injury probably hurt the pacing of the match, Wyatt was favoring it quite a bit towards the end at points. Taker was obviously not in ring shape, and looked pretty gassed but at least his body held up (although that's assuming he was selling with the dazed look he had throughout). Where does Wyatt go from here though? Nowhere to go but down now unless Taker sticks around for Extreme Rules to do the favors for Bray. After that maybe Bray can be in line for a title shot and win one of the three belts while they all mean something. 

Yeah, Mania as a whole wasn't that good but it wasn't the worst either.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

LilOlMe said:


> What was the point of the Bellas vs. AJ/Paige match, btw? The storyline wasn't advanced whatsoever. Bellas looked dominate, and AJ was barely involved, yet randomly wins with the Black Widow? Why the fuck even book the match?


Probably just wanted to fill time so the sky would darken a little for Taker's entrance. :lol I would be convinced that's why the Steph thing took so long if not for the egos of the McMahons.

All that time wasted, plus the live performance of Kid Ink and friends, plus HHH's entrance, and we could have had a best of three Cesaro/Goldust series.


I haven't seen Lesnar/Cena from SS, no. Roman smiling was.....yeah, kinda weird. I don't really know what to make of it other than Roman wanted to look strong, maybe? Too many F-5 kick outs for sure, especially if he was going to eat the pin for Rollins anyway. I definitely thought the blood added to the match, though. Reigns had gotten almost no offense in so that ring post shot needed to have a huge impact on Lesnar or else he would have had no chance. The blood was like the Oh Ok This Isn't A Squash Any More moment. In general I really loved every offensive move by Roman because it looked like he was trying to get out of hell. Everything Brock did looked like hell, so chocolate and vanilla (I'm implying chocolate and vanilla go well together, taste buds are different so someone reading this might be thinking otherwise).

I didn't think Lesnar bladed, honestly. Obv this isn't an opinion b/c either he bladed or he didn't, but I bought it as a violent ring post shot. Not really Hashimoto/Vader level but still cringey. I didn't look forward to the replay of it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I read Bray hurt his ankle warming up for the match this morning, then he did that really stupid spot where he basically ran himself into the steel steps. Gave me a good laugh.

The unpredictability factor was always there for me in the main event because I constantly kept telling myself "well this is gonna piss me off because Reigns is gonna make a Superman comeback and win this thing" but after Lesnar kept hitting F5s I thought it was gonna be over at any point. I didn't know if Vince was gonna listen to the crowd or keep shoving Roman at us. I think a lot of it had to do with how late the match went on too. They used EVERY minute they had, which is rare for them. The brutality and stiffness was on a whole nother level from Summerslam last year, imo. Cena never responded with the types of strikes that Reigns did here. Felt like a true heavyweight slugfest if I've ever seen one.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I don't usually get annoyed about this stuff like a lot of you guys do, but this was KickOutMania.

It felt like every single match had people just kicking out of finishers. Every single one. Even in the fucking divas match, Paige kicked out of Nikki's finish.

I think that contributed to why things felt a bit more underwhelming to me than it did for much of the rest of the board. When most of them happened, it didn't feel like stories being told, it was just kick outs for the sake of it. It loses it's impact when you've seen it for the 7th match in a row. 

Having said that, it still was an enjoyable mania! Just didn't feel that much of it had a classic feel, although the way Seth cashed in funny. It felt like a movie, with Seth running around down that big ol' stage, lol.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I hope Wyatt fucking destroys 'Taker tomorrow night (if 'Taker even shows up) to at least regain some credibility after losing again.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

@Yeah1993, I think another reason why the bleeding annoyed me was because I thought it was Vince's way of doing everything he could to get Reigns over.

I'm working under the assumption that he bladed, so for Vince to even allow that is a big deal. It just felt like "oh, that'll be the excuse for why Reigns could get the comeback on Brock."

Then when that didn't even happen, it felt pointless for me. I guess it added to the unpredictability, because it WASN'T for the purpose of Reigns winning, but then that goes back to the lack of cohesiveness. 

I'll probably watch Mania again at some point, so I'll try to look for what you guys are saying as far as the brutality. But I found Reigns' strikes against Bryan at FL a lot more vicious than the ones tonight. Honestly, that match seemed more hard-hitting in a back and forth sense. Yet ya'll shit on that match! lol. So confuddling.


Thanks, Jack Evans. That explains why Bray seemed so not like himself. Bummer, but I doubt it would have been that great anyway, considering how the match was booked.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

It's so strange to think that they had SEVEN matches in a 4 hour span, yet the longest match went 18 minutes (HHH/Sting). Everything else aside from the main event went 15 minutes or less. That just baffles me. The Battle Royal actually went longer than everything else. :lol

Extreme Rules predictions? Orton vs. Rollins in a Last Man Standing for the WWE Title & Cena vs. Rusev in a Steel Cage for the U.S. Title. Bryan vs. Ziggler for the IC Title. Reigns takes a few weeks off to heal while we don't see Lesnar again until the summer.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> then he did that really stupid spot where he basically ran himself into the steel steps. Gave me a good laugh.


Oh god yeah what the fuck was that? :lmao Looks like he took a Foley bump off of an invisible person giving him an irish whip. 



LilOlMe said:


> @Yeah1993, I think another reason why the bleeding annoyed me was because I thought it was Vince's way of doing everything he could to get Reigns over.
> 
> I'm working under the assumption that he bladed, so for Vince to even allow that is a big deal. It just felt like* "oh, that'll be the excuse for why Reigns could get the comeback on Brock."*


The way I see it Reigns would get the comeback on Brock no matter what. It might as well look at least remotely convincing.  Blade or no blade, blood made it seem like Brock was actually in trouble.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

This post in the Sting/HHH thread is so right-on. Add on the breaking of kayfabe the night before:


ErickRowan_Fan said:


> I feel like Sting was screwed horribly in this match.
> 
> First of all, it makes absolutely zero sense for nWo (+ Nash & Hall who are Triple H's buddies) to back him up against Triple H, since anybody who followed the product knows that Sting spent much of his time in WCW fighting against nWo. If WCW wrestlers like DDP or Goldberg showed up, it would've made a little more sense. The appeal of Sting's character was that he always fought alone though. They should've had Sting fight Triple H and his goons, ultimately losing in a desperate effort instead.
> 
> ...


I wrote:


> lol at Nash, X-Pac, and co. probably getting bigger WM paychecks and better spots than Cesaro got.


I swear, I think a lot of stuff like this is done to look out for friends.

I did lol at Billy Gunn tackling someone. 

So I assume someone will finally take down the authority at next year's WM? Sting was just the pit stop, lol. And Ziggler and co. were fired for what reason again? 

The only people who got over during this whole storyline were H and Steph. In fact, Ziggler had his momentum derailed in the midst of this storyline.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The Rock (and Ronda) will probably be the ones to take down The Authority next year at Wrestlemania.


----------



## cena542007 (Apr 1, 2007)

WrestleMania 31:

***1/4 - Cesaro and Tyson Kidd (c) vs. The Usos vs. Los Matadores vs. New Day
**1/2 - Andre the Giant Battle Royal
***1/2 - Ladder Match
***1/4 - Randy Orton vs. Seth Rollins 
**3/4 - Triple H vs. Sting
**1/4 - AJ Lee & Paige vs. The Bella Twins 
***1/4 - Rusev (c) vs. John Cena 
*** - Undertaker vs. Bray Wyatt 
****1/2 - Brock Lesnar vs. Roman Reigns
Overall: ***3/4


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Do you actually think Lesnar bladed? I can't see how he could've done it so quickly after the post shot. It was almost instantaneous.


Watching live, it looked like the blade job happened just before lesnar ate the post. 

And thank Christ, that it's 2015 and we saw a blade job and nobody tried to stop the match to stop the blood. Thank fucking Christ.


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

KidCharlamagne said:


> And thank Christ, that it's 2015 and we saw a blade job and nobody tried to stop the match to stop the blood. Thank fucking Christ.


Thought the same thing. If it wasn't in the middle of the main event of WM, that shit gets stopped. If it was in the first couple minutes, no doubt the ref gets scared and stops the match.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

BREEaments03 said:


> Thought the same thing. If it wasn't in the middle of the main event of WM, that shit gets stopped. If it was in the first couple minutes, no doubt the ref gets scared and stops the match.


Good luck gettin in Brock's way, no less.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

LOL at JBL when Hall handed Sting the bat. "Damn you, Razor!"

Aside from my beef with the WCW/WWE commentary and storyline, I have to say that JBL did a good job of capturing and contributing to the cartoonishly fun vibe of it all. 

Right before Sting almost got pinned, JBL goes "Now he's lost two wars" in a serious voice. I legit LOL'ed at that.


----------



## Paul Rudd (Oct 23, 2010)

I thought it was an average show up until the main event. Brock vs Reigns on it's own made the whole show better. Then Seth at the end took it up another notch :mark:.

Randy vs Seth was ok, nothing special; but that RKO was awesome and the best I've ever seen. ***1/2*

I enjoyed the Sting/HHH match. I thought doing a match like that was a better option than attempting and failing at having a good regular match. Scott Hall taking a backdrop made me jump out of my chair in fear :lol and HBK is just awesome, his presence definitely added to the match. *****

Taker vs Wyatt was unfortunately mediocre. Taker looked great, but as soon as he started throwing punches he looked like an old man to me. The match never really went anywhere. Kicking out of The Tombstone has become predictable, which sucks; so when Bray did kick out it didn't really mean anything and it didn't Elevate Bray at all IMO. That being said I thought the right man one. ***3/4*

I really enjoyed the main event. I was hooked from the very beginning and I had no idea what was going to happen next. Reigns laughing really took away from the match IMO, it just didn't fit his character and it felt really random. That and maybe one too many F-5's are my only complaints about this match. I thought the blood was a nice addition and is proof that blood (when used appropriately) can take a match to a higher level. I jumped out of my seat when Seth ran out :banderas , absolutely incredible finish! *Seth Rollins just won the WWE championship in the main event of Wrestlemania! :mark:* This was Romans best match by far and losing here helped him more than winning would've. *****1/4*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think people missed the true nature of Sting vs Triple H.

The things that TNA does & why you watch some of that stuff; yeah, it was like that.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Best part of Sting/HHH was Nash tearing a quad :lol


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Was listening to Meltzer and Alvarez talk about this, and was baffled by their love for it. Dave was calling it one of the best WWE events he'd ever seen. Am I missing something here? Seemed to me like a bunch of OK wrestling with good booking, and a great main event. There have been better PPV's. Hell, last year was better. I dunno, maybe I just didn't enjoy it as much as other people cause I didn't cream myself at that 25 minute Authority/Rousey angle (aren't angles traditionally shot on TV?)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Meltzer & Bryan generally have terrible opinions most of the time. Sounds normal. Bryan is only good when he's shitting on Divas or TNA. He accepts a lot of mediocre or even poor WWE material.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Ruiner87 said:


> Was listening to Meltzer and Alvarez talk about this, and was baffled by their love for it. Dave was calling it one of the best WWE events he'd ever seen. Am I missing something here? Seemed to me like a bunch of OK wrestling with good booking, and a great main event. There have been better PPV's. Hell, last year was better. I dunno, maybe I just didn't enjoy it as much as other people cause I didn't cream myself at that 25 minute Authority/Rousey angle (aren't angles traditionally shot on TV?)


Do they not say this about every Wrestlemania? It was a solid Mania to be honest. I agree that it wasn't better than last year, the build for last year was much better too, last year however we got Bryan finally winning the big one and Takers streak ending.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

I usually find their opinions to be fine, and even when I disagree with them, I tend to understand where they're coming from. This one has just sort of been doing my head in, though. Saw it all over twitter after the show too, "Oh yeah this PPV was perfect." What?

Edit: I rewatched Orton/Rollins, because I didn't feel like I really caught it all the first time around. Sometimes I forget that Orton is actually still a very good pro wrestler, but he's just unfortunate enough to get stuck in matches with Cena all the time. He's a good babyface when he just gets to kill people, be crazy and flail around. Could have done without the RKO and Curb Stomp kick-outs (don't do this in 13 minute matches, please) and obviously the finish was cool as hell. Orton always gets so excited when he actually pulls stuff off. He's wacky.***1/2 

I hope those two get to have a proper 20 minute match at Extreme Rules for the title, and they just do a street fight or whatever. Might just be great.

Also the main event was **** purely because Lesnar is an insane man. Could watch that dude all day.


----------



## Paul Rudd (Oct 23, 2010)

Ruiner87 said:


> Was listening to Meltzer and Alvarez talk about this, and was baffled by their love for it. Dave was calling it one of the best WWE events he'd ever seen. Am I missing something here? Seemed to me like a bunch of OK wrestling with good booking, and a great main event. There have been better PPV's. Hell, last year was better. I dunno, maybe I just didn't enjoy it as much as other people cause I didn't cream myself at that 25 minute Authority/Rousey angle (aren't angles traditionally shot on TV?)


I agree with you, I thought the show was just better than average. But that main event left me feeling hyped as fuck and I'm guessing that's where most of the extreme praise is coming from. Then again everyone has different tastes.


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

They were there tho so that's always going to inflate somebody's opinion, especially with the good crowd

Dave will change his tune when he watches it back. Guaranteed


----------



## RATED R RULES (May 27, 2007)

When that ref put on those gloves in the main event and I thought he was gonna stop it to treat the cut I was literally screaming 'Don't you dare' at the TV. I thought it was a legit cut at the time but thinking back now it was probably a tad too convenient realistically. I have to agree the feel of a legit heavyweight slugfest was had here and it sucked me in. The three F5 kick outs I definitely disagreed with(last year considered) but laughing stuff off I thought was okay to be honest. Opinions. The cash in was great and am shocked Vince went with it. Raw shall be good now at least. Wonder who will show up mind


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I'm going to watch it again


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Last two matches have plenty of replay value from me. One for personal joy _(and b/c Taker looked good, sold the story very well) _& the other b/c it was great stuff. And yeah, more personal joy.

A match I had interest in and it actually delivered. WWE gave me that much. Well, more credit to Reigns & Brock, but you get what I mean.

Rest of the show. Eh, can't all be winners.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brock fucking Lesnar once again.  Thank fuck he's staying.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Man I feel like I'm totally missing something. The only really good match was Lesnar/Reigns, everything else felt totally bleh. You could call this "MediocreMania" because outside of the atrocious Sting/Trips match and really good Lesnar/Reigns match, everything was so middle of the road. Lesnar/Reigns was definitely a quality bout but it doesn't quite reach truly great territory for me because of the over reliance on finisher kick outs. Would have like to have seen some more fighting.

IC Title Ladder Match: ***1/4
Rollins/Orton: ***
Sting/Triple H: *1/2
Cena/Rusev: **3/4
Bella's/Paige & AJ: **1/4
Wyatt/Taker: **1/2
Lesnar/Reigns: ***3/4

That's being more than fair with the ratings, I think. Just my personal opinion of course.

Lesnar looked amazing, "Suplex City, Bitch" was easily the highlight of the night for me, along with Brock hardwaying himself into the ring post. That was a really stiff, meaty match I definitely dug it and will watch it again tonight, along with Taker/Wyatt.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

WM Ratings

Ladder match ****1/2*
Randy Orton vs Seth Rollins ****3/4*
Triple H vs Sting *****
Rusev vs John Cena ***1/2*
The Undertaker vs Bray Wyatt ****
Roman Reigns vs Brock Lesnar *****1/4*

I really enjoyed this year's Mania and it's such a shame it had such a terrible build. 

Ladder match was lots of fun as expected. I enjoyed Orton/Rollins a lot more than most people it seems. To me, it's the hidden gem of the show. 

HHH/Sting, I appreciate it for what it was. I thought it a really fun and entertaining match. I could see why people would hate it- the run ins, the over the top stuff, Sting losing- but this match took 15 years of wrestling and threw it into one match. It was a trip down memory lane and had a nice nostalgic feel. The fuck more you people want?

I had to go out for a while so I missed the Divas match so can't complain about it. 

Cena/Rusev was meh. I liked some parts, hated most. I didn't like how Cena took Rusev off his legs with one clothesline at the beginning. So I had problems with this match from the beginning. Also, did Cena actually apply the STF properly last night or was I just seeing things? The decision to have Cena go over is fucking stupid, serves no purpose and makes no fucking sense. The only thing that pissed me off lat night.

Sorry to say but maybe Taker should have retired last year. The streak match has lost its aura. Still, Taker looked damn good and they made the best out of the situation. Really underwhelming match.

Reigns vs Lesnar was :mark: So much for the main event blowing  Reigns smiling was corny as fuck but who cares. Lesnar as this suplex war-machine works. I think Reigns had some really nice come back spots and everything was believable. Brock made Reigns look legit in my eyes. Even before Rollins cashed in I had this match in the four star range. Rollins cashing in is what gave it the extra 1/4*. Thank God they made the right choice. Lord knows what would have had happened if Reigns won. Nice to see they protected Brock by having Reigns take the pin. It was a great match and I have no complaints and the naysayers were proven wrong.

It's such a shame this Mania had the worst build of all time because I really enjoyed this event. Even though Taker/Wyatt didn't deliver and Cena/Rusev was a mixed bag, I still had fun the entire night and to me that's what makes a great Mania. I definitely would not call this the average PPV with a great main event.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

I think this was Reigns' best singles match till date and also Brock's best Mania match. He's had 2 duds with Goldberg and Taker, both for uncommon reasons and I definitely preferred this over the Angle match at 19.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

rollins :mark:

im in a wcw mood now, help


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I was thinking last night, at what point was Trips/Sting a NO DQ match? First HBK hitting the superkick on Sting, then each of them getting shots in with their respective weapons. 

I still :lmao at the sledgehammer handle breaking. Might watch that again right now.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> WM Ratings
> 
> Ladder match ****1/2*
> Randy Orton vs Seth Rollins ****3/4*
> ...


Oh, you know, a match that makes even a little sense and not having my intelligence insulted. Just the simple things, I'm not hard to please. A trip down memory lane? For the people that were actually alive and watching wrestling back then, that was the furthest thing possible from a trip down memory lane. The NWO helping Sting? In what world does that make even a little bit of sense? The biggest storyline in the entire Nitro-era of WCW was Sting VS the NWO. It was Sting AGAINST Hogan, Hall, and Nash. Then, we have the curtain call incident. It is completely public knowledge that Nash and Hall are buddies with ALL of the DX dudes. For fucks sake, they were on the Network the night prior foe the HoF induction hanging out and celebrating with each other for Nash's induction. It is completely and utterly illogical for the NWO to come out to rescue Sting and fight with DX. It is the complete opposite of making sense.

Not to mention, the match was totally bleh and Sting looked like he was in good enough shape to have a good match. They didn't need the crutch of all that gimmickry, just have a match for Christ sakes without forcing the fans to cringe and utterly destroying the suspension of disbelief. As a fan, you can 100% believe that Hunter and Sting would have real animosity for each other. Sting has said in interviews that Booker's treatment by WWE in the feud with Hunter is the main reason he decided never to sign with them when he returned to wrestling, he didn't want to have his career buried. They should have done everything in their power to sustain the fans belief that they didn't like each other, instead the made a complete mockery of it and then to top it off Sting gets beat in his first match AND THEN SHAKES HUNTERS HAND. Wtf? Really? Why am I supposed to like that? 

I like to just turn my brain off and lose myself in great wrestling matches. I can't do that when WWE pulls crap like this were they are blatantly doing the "this is just show business" shtick, and last nights Sting/Hunter match was a shining example of that.

Reigns/Lesnar was the exact opposite, it allowed me to lose myself, I was really thinking Reigns was pissed and that those two dudes were legitimately trying to maim the other, probably because they were but w/e


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Fatal 4-Way - ***
Andre Battle Royal - **1/4
------------------------------
IC Ladder - ***1/2
Orton vs Rollins - **3/4
Sting vs HHH - *
Divas Tag - *3/4
Rusev vs Cena - **1/2
Taker vs Wyatt - ***
Lesnar vs Reigns... VS ROLLINS - ****1/4

- The pre-show stuff was fine. Thought the Fatal 4-Way was insane tons of fun, in spite of its obviously spotfesty nature, and it did feature one of only two winner decisions I agreed with (Cesaro & Kidd retaining); and the Battle Royal, while nowhere near as good as last year's, it was, again, fun, mostly made by Sandow and the intense final two w/Show, which ended w/the bullshit that was Show winning. Bleh.

- The Ladder match was fun and had lots of instances where they didn't do the BAD kind of Ladder match spots but instead the kind of ones they do where they use the ladders to actually beat up the other guys, which I appreciated. Barrett going HAM was :mark:. And that Ambrose spot... ouch. Would've rather Ambrose win, but Bryan winning isn't bad I guess.

- Orton/Rollins was solid, not great but perfectly funcional. "Perfectly acceptable wrestling" as Scott Keith (fuck that guy even tho I'm quoting him) says. Orton looked sluggish and plodding, but Rollins' effort comtemplated it very well. Finisher kickouts were STOOPID, but the ending was pretty nice... and then Orton won when Seth needed the win more. Still, good match.

- Sting/HHH... oh my God. I didn't like this. I really didn't. First immediate thought was "this early?!" which could've only meant that fuckery was about to ensue. And ensue it did. Sting's entrance was fine, but HHH's was cartoonish to say the least. The match itself? Well, it started out OK w/them doing this lame Rock/Hogan clone stuff and a nice atmosphere. Then it started to degenerate into this huge clusterfuck of old guys and a billion finishers. Was it nice to see DX and nWo fight? Yes. Was it exciting? Yes. Was it GOOD? Hell to the shit no. The finisher kickouts felt redundant after a while, especially coming off Orton/Rollins. nWo helping Sting is a complete slap to the face to any WCW and wrestling in general fan. And GOD FUCKING FORBID ANY FORMER WCW GUY COMING TO THE WWE AND NOT GETTING PINNED BY HHH. STING LOSES HIS FIRST WWE MATCH EVER. That was Cena over Lesnar in 2012 levels of bullshit. That was 2003 HHH levels of bullshit. And then they shake hands after the match. And I'm like "NO. Just... NO". It had its positives (excitement, atmosphere, the beggining), but this was BAD overall.

- Divas Tag was alright. AJ didn't really look good, too sloppy in there for my taste, but the Bellas did a solid job of carrying the whole thing and Paige was a decent FIP. Best Divas effort at Mania in years, possibly since Trish/Mickie. Which isn't saying much at all since most were Godawful, but this wasn't bad.

- Rusev/Cena was slightly better than Fastlane, if only because it was less boring and Lana looked hotter than hell. Rusev was great, his effort was colossal and it was a carryjob from him if there ever was one. Truly an excellent performance that would remember anyone why "beefy monster heels" can, should and WILL be fucking awesome for wrestling. Cena was just... urgh. I thought Orton looked more or less careless, but this was even worse. Obvious phoning it in is obvious. And the echo of that spot calling could be heard here in Portugal, let alone there in San Francisco or wherever Mania was. And the ending? MORE BULLSHIT. Cena's AA can't pin Lesnar after THREE OR FOUR TIMES it got hit, and it didn't beat Rusev at FL either... I repeat: ONE AA DID NOT PIN RUSEV AT FASTLANE, NOW DID IT?!!... oh, and Rusev is booked as this undefeated monster for A YEAR. WrestleMania comes around. ONE AA. ONE. FUCKING. AA. is all it takes. fpalm Now we'll see where the inevitable Cena/Bryan IC/US titles feud goes.

- The angle w/Rock/HHH/Steph/Ronda dragged on for WAAAYYY too long. And Steph didn't even take an Armbar. I am dissapoint. Rock/HHH at next year's Mania, eh? Fuck off. Steph/Ronda sounds cool, tho.

- The haters can fuck off: I liked Taker/Wyatt. There. I had my skepticism, and part of it was fulfilled, but the match can be considered good for my liking. Again: it had its periods of boring and plodding and again, finisher kickouts: reduntant and predictable (does everybody get to kick out of a Tombstone now?), but fuck me if they didn't made up for it w/DEM MEATY PUNCHES. I love myself a good ol' slugfest every now and then, and that's exactly what this was for its best bits. Bray was every bit as good as he usually is w/character work, and Taker was up there too. Atmosphere: this match had it. Selling: this match had it too. And VISUALS: this match had quite a few of them. Mother of all bullshit decisions w/Taker going 22-1 when Bray needed it WAY more leaves a sour ending to the match, but did I enjoy it? Yup. But maybe it was just me begging for it to be good and ended up believing that it was, so... rewatch is necessary.

- Lesnar/Reigns(/ROLLINS) was the match I was the most skeptical about by miles. I knew Lesnar/Bryan this would not be, so this could've only been one of two: either fucking great or a colossal disaster. It was fucking great. Both of them stiffing the shit out of each other had me SMILING. Lesnar was unbelievably good, giving Reigns the beatdown of a lifetime and taking it all like a walk in the park (SUPLEX CITY BITCH was the highlight of the night like Chris/Rabid Wolverine said, btw). Lesnar bleeding made for both a brutal sighting and gave Reigns that babyface last minute hope. Some people say Reigns smiling was corny, but I kinda liked it as it gave Reigns that "never say die" attitude that I love seeing in a babyface that I'm supposed to believe is a badass and a warrior like Reigns is sold to us as being. I was about to explode if Reigns was gonna win after a few Spears and Superman Punches, especially after kicking out of three F-5's which put down THE UNDERTAKER last year, but luckily they saved the ending w/the Rollins stuff that I legit marked out for. Ending was genius. Just genius. TYLER BLACK WINS THE WWE WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP AT THE MAIN EVENT OF WRESTLEMANIA. Soaking the insanity in.

Overall, people are saying this was the best WM in years?! WTF?!! Yeah it was better than many WM's in years, but it doesn't even touch 30 from last year in example. The only legit great match was the Main Event, w/the Ladder match being very good, the Taker/Wyatt one being good and rest ranging from solid to horrible. Granted, it was FAR, FAR from the atrocity I expected it to be, and I did think this was one of the most pleasantly surprising WM's ever in quality terms, but if people think THAT highly of it, they're not even 24 hours gone and imo already overrating the fuck out of it.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

It was obvious that they made the match more about WCW vs WWE which is why they didn't care about Sting's feud with NWO. I just like to think that NWO came out to help Sting for WCW's sake, not for Sting's sake. Just my opinion. I personally liked the overbooked madness that took place and the close nearfalls. I wasn't expecting a classic between the two.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

WM 31

IC ladder match ***1/4
Orton vs Rollins ****
HHH/Sting ***
Divas *
Taker/Wyatt **1/2
Cena/Rusev **
Lesnar/Reigns ***1/2


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

don't get putting orton/rollins above the main event, solid match with a great finish


main event was the only ****+ match on the show imo


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

@ATF: I think I'm the only one that has pointed out "suplex city bitch" but whatever.

As a quick note, I find it humorous in hindsight that a fit Sting shows up against HHH and they have a head scratching shitshow for a pop due to horrific and just nonsensical structure for branding/ a pop, and Austin Aries still remains the last guy to get a solid match with Sting. Some are wondering why Sting would sign on with this: well, it was either waste away in a dying company in TNA where nobody sees you and eventually gives you the same treatment the younger, uninformed generation gives the GREAT Terry Funk, or perform in front of 73,000 and have your legacy preserved in the long term.

edit: you know, I have calmed down abit from my annoyances with Reigns/Lesnar: still don't like my two major critiques, but in hindsight, especially given what other matches I have given four stars, I will bump it to ****. I guess all in all especially with the very good and interesting end of Rollins, it was great. Not beyond great, but great no less.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

*Tag titles - ***
Wasn't paying a great deal of attention here, but seemed something of a mess. Fun, but a mess.

*Battle royal - *1/2*
Apart from Mizdow turning on Miz, this was largely garbage. Itami got dumped out like a jobber when there was still was still about 12 guys left. Big Show eliminated all the fan favourites here; Itami, Cesaro, Ryback and Mizdow. Basically the Royal Rumble mk. II. 

*Ladder match - ****
Standard affair. Couple of big brutal spots (powerbomb and superplex) but everything else was your usual ladder shtick including the most overused multi-man ladder spot now of 1 guy jumps on another, then 3rd guy jumps on those 2, 4th on those 3 etc. Finishing stretch seemed tense but extremely weak. I'm guessing they all forgot how to sell because they were cut short on time. Commentary was absolutely awful here, particularly JBL.
"Truth says he's not scared of spiders" - even though when he introduced being scared of heights, he also said he was scared of spiders.
"Luke Harper has suplexed Stardust off the top of the ladder and just powerbombed Luke Harper" ...what?
"the knee that won him the wwe world title last year" no it didn't
"Old McDonald had an inter-continental championship" fuck off

*Rollins/Orton - ***1/2*
Didn't get the Phoenix Splash into RKO (I'm not sure it's even possible) but the RKO out of nowhere we got was still amazing. Good match but like many feuds thesedays there was a lack of intensity and the feeling they wanted to kill each other.

*Sting/Triple H - **1/2*
What in the name of fuck was this though. :lmao :lmao
Wasn't expecting this at the end of the first hour. Triple H's entrance :lmao
Was it announced before that it was no DQ? Because the first I heard of it was when Lilian was introducing the match. nWo vs DX, even though Sting fought against the nWo in WCW? I guess they must've known Sting couldn't go for very long if they had to include this overbooking for an 18 minute match. Both amazing and the most ridiculous thing ever. 
Is it me or has Charles Robinson transformed into Jericho?

*Divas - *1/4*
Well this happened. It's great when Paige shows aggression but it's too rare.

*Cena/Rusev **1/2*
Lana's back :mark:
Dunno why the company isn't called AWE since there was nothing worldly about this. America > everybody else is a surefire way to alienate the rest of the viewing world. Yes it's for the US title but still, it was asking for every non-American to support Rusev. As for the match, couldn't really get into it. Didn't flow very well and didn't seem like there was any good false finishes.

-Rock & Rousey -
Dear God why did this have to take 25 minutes. 15 minutes would've been acceptable but this took up more time than either of the first two matches including entrances & video package. 

*Undertaker/Bray - *3/4*
Taker's done. He looked gassed and out of it just 6 minutes in. Crowd chanting "this is awesome" for like the tenth time tonight when perhaps 2 at most warranted it. I remember when that chant meant something. Not a good match; it was basically what it was. A fat guy vs an old guy.

*Reigns/Lesnar../Rollins - ***3/4*
Best match on the show probably. Largely down to the ending because I would've said "fuck this match" if Reigns had won with that second Spear. Probably the best way they could've worked the match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well, here comes the HATE~!










*WrestleMania 31*

IT'S WRESTLEMANIA PLAY BUTTON!!! Actually gonna watch/ramble on the pre-show matches this time too. First time ever I think. I normally don't even bother watching it lol. BUT, the official CAL SCALE score for WM will go by JUST the actual WM matches. I'll probably show both at the end though.


*Cesaro & Tyson Kidd Vs Los Matadores Vs The Usos Vs The New Day - WWE Tag Team Championship Match*

Cesaro and Kidd are accompanied to the ring by NATTIE'S TITS. Holy Jebus lol.

Cesaro and Kofi start off, then one of the Los Matadores tags himself in, so Cesaro leaves and... takes out an Uso :lmao. Apparently he was already injured coming into the match so, that explains that .

How AWFUL is the current "tag division" right now? This is what we're stuck with. 

:lmao Woods is on the outside trying to motivate Kofi by smacking on the ring apron, and the fans are chanting "New. Day sucks!" to the beat :lmao.

SUPERKICKS~! Guess he has to do more than usual since he's on his own now (Jimmy Uso, obviously). Though fuck knows what he's gonna do for the rest of the match since he's used up his whole 1 move.

:lmao as I wrote that... HE HIT ANOTHER SUPERKICK :lmao. He has quite literally RUN OUT OF MOVES :lmao.

Thought they were gonna do a lame as fuck tower of doom spot because apparently when you have more than just 2 tag teams in a match, that spot MUST be done. It's like, mandatory. They'd probably get fined if they didn't do it. Instead, they change things up and everyone does their own little spot and it's somewhat fun .

SHARPSHOOTER TO THE MIDGET BULL~!

:lmao Los Matadores do a switch twin spot, but the referee can apparently tell the difference between them and refuses to count :lmao.

:lmao MOAR SUPERKICKS~!

EVERYONE EXCEPT CESARO HAS HIT A SUPERKICK AT LEAST ONCE IN THIS MATCH :lmao.

Oh hey, here's the tower of doom spot. Told ya they'd get fined if they didn't do it.

Well, thankfully Cesaro and Kidd retain the titles. Best choice because everyone else is just awful.

Some fun stuff here... but I'm glad it was on the pre-show and not the proper show because it was just a spotty move-fest and nothing else.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal*

AXELMANIA is... eliminated first. By everyone. Didn't see that coming...

Is that KENTA in the match (I forget what his NXT name is, hence me not using it. I'm not one of those people who refuses to call someone by their new name or anything lame :side: )? 

ITAMI. There we go. Thanks Cole. He won some tournament over WM weekend.

HOLY FUCK JBL FINALLY SPEAKS SENSE. He actually said that Big Show is NOT a favourite because despite his size, he has NEVER WON A BATTLE ROYAL. About time someone brought that up.

HOW DID ALEX RILEY GET IN THIS MATCH??!? :lmao

:lmao Ryder eliminated like a jobber by Bo Dallas who runs around the ring screaming "I DID IT", gets back in the ring, and gets kicked out by Itami.

BIG SHOW VS KENTA :mark:. That could actually be a good match. Show as the monster heel, and Itami working as the underdog. Kinda like how he did against TENRYU that one time. At least, so I've heard. Don't think I've ever seen the match myself.

Well, there goes Itami. And a bunch of other people.

HENRY IS ELIMINATED... by who? The fucking Ascension? What a load of shit.

Well guess my prediction of SHEAMUS winning this thing ain't happening unless he's allowed to show up at the end . So he's most likely, apparently, to interfere in the ladder match? God I hope he doesn't cost Bryan the IC title.

:lmao didn't even realise Swagger was in this match :lmao. First time I've seen him, and he was sat in the corner hiding before getting eliminated :lmao. THANKS FOR COMING.

:mark: BIG SHOW HANGING ON LIKE RR 2009 :mark:. He fucking MURDERS The New Day and single handily eliminates them :mark:.

:lmao Cole doesn't know which Uso is which. He claims Jimmy got hurt earlier, so Jay is the one in the ring. Then realises it was Jay that got hurt.

Ahhh shit, Goldust is gone .

Oh hey Kane is here. The fuck has he been hiding? And how does someone that big hide?

Cesaro eliminates Kane in the same way he beat Big Show last year. Then he sets his sights on doing it to Show again :mark:. Maybe Cesaro can win it again and actually benefit from it this year? 

Nah, Cesaro is gone. Actually, losing might help him more than winning :lmao.

THE FINAL 3. Big Show Vs Miz and Mizdow. Oh god Mizdow is winning, isn't he?

At least it seems like Mizdow is turning on Miz for good. When they split up and have their little feud, I want Jiz to become the Marty Jannetty of their team. Same for Sandow tbh. Fuck em both.

I like how Big Show just stands in the corner for like 5 minutes while Jiz and Sandow argue.

MIZ IS ELIMINATED BY SANDOW~!

Big Show wants a hug. Sandow attacks him instead. What a cunt. He's probably gonna make Big Show cry now. Just what we need...

:lmao gotta say though, this is one of the more fun finishing stretches for a battle royal. Some fun teased eliminations including Sandow biting Show's hand when he tries to hold on to the ropes :lmao.

IT'S BENOIDOW~! He tries to use the same tactic as Benoit from the 04 RR. And then gets eliminated.

HOLY SHIT BIG SHOW ACTUALLY WON. HE'S MADE HIS (FAKE) DADDY PROUD~!

Well I enjoyed this .

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*Bad News Barrett Vs Dean Ambrose Vs Daniel Bryan Vs Stardust Vs Dolph Ziggler Vs R-Truth Vs Luke Harper - WWE Intercontinental Championship Ladder Match*

Daniel Bryan opens yet another WM. I just hope Sheamus doesn't fuck him over like he did a couple of years ago :side:.

So APPARENTLY the reason Bryan isn't being pushed in the main event scene since his return is because WWE aren't sure on the condition of his neck still. It could just be a short term fix, similar to what Angle kept having for years. So their solution? PUT HIM IN A LADDER MATCH~! *FACE. PALM.*

Right, time to get this clusterfuck match out of the way. I just hope nobody gets seriously hurt, and they can try and give us something more than SPOTS~!

30 seconds into this match and everyone is diving over the ropes onto everyone else. *sigh*

I think Ziggler just landed on a ladder balls first. Not sure if I should laugh at him or feel sorry for him.

:lmao

I laughed.

Stardust has his own glitter ladder. Bad News Barrett breaks it and beats the fuck out of Stardust with a broken rung :lmao. Don't think I've ever seen that in a ladder match .

Urgh, that fucking "swing the ladder" spot. Harper set the ladder up for that BEFORE ANYONE ELSE WAS EVEN IN THE RING. So he was basically waiting and hoping everyone else would run in at him so the spot would work. I. HATE. LADDER. MATCHES.

Oh look, a ladder set up in the ring NOWHERE NEAR THE BELT. Bet that won't be used for a spot.

OMG SHOCK IT WAS USED FOR A SPOT.

Well, Ambrose just killed the Jawbreaker Lariat. Two AWFUL set ups and executions.

Well, Ambrose just died. Powerbomb out of the ring through a ladder that was... set up for that spot at some point in time. 

Is Harper bleeding or is his tank top just in character by being dirty? Can't get a good enough look at him to find out :lmao.

Where is Bryan? I don't remember the last time I saw him.

Oh there he is. He just got knocked off the ladder. Bet that's good for his neck!

KNEE TO BARRETT'S FACE~! Should be an improvement.

Ziggler and Bryan battling on top of the ladder. God, if Ziggler wins this then I'll... I'LL COMPLAIN ON THE INTERNET.

A bazzillion headbutts later and Bryan wins. At least the match did one thing right.

Didn't like this at all. Garbage. Fucking garbage.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Seth Rollins Vs Randy Orton*

So are they getting all the old Shield members out of the way early on so when Reigns comes out for the main event, nobody remembers how much better they were than him? 

Seth tried to kill Orton 4 months ago. Orton returned, pretended to be friends then tried to murder Seth. And this match starts like any other basic match from Raw and SD. Well done you morons.

Did... did Orton just no sell the turnbuckle powerbomb? Or was he meant to like, counter it?

DOUBLE APRON DDT TO J&J. Randy has showed more aggression towards the security than Seth. Does nobody know how to have a fucking FIGHT any more? This should be a BLOOD FEUD. Only without the blood because PG and whatnot. But still. LOOK LIKE YOU'RE TRYING TO KILL EACH OTHER DAMMIT.

I'm bored. THIS IS FUCKING BORING. I know I'm not a wrestler. I've never been in the ring. I've not done any training. I'm a fan. I'm a "smark". I talk about wrestling on the internet. So my opinion on the matter means less than dog shit to actual wrestlers. But even so, I just want to say to Seth and Randy... YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG. Sorry, but I could put together a better match than this. For starters it would make sense given the build up and feud going into the match. Hmmm... I wonder how much is their fault and how much is the agent's fault? Either way, whoever put this match together should have simply said "FUCKING FIGHT". That's what this match needed to be and SHOULD have been. Instead it's a cold match we would expect to see on Raw for no real reason.

DID YOU KNOW? We've had a Superkick in EVERY MATCH so far tonight. Both pre-show matches, and now both main card matches.

RKO~! I'll be honest, I thought the match was ending there. Would have been a random and flat ending to what so far has been a random and flat match. Instead, 2 matches into the show, and we have a finisher kick out. Not sure which is worse. Kicking out of a finisher this early into the show, or if the match would have ended there while the match was still dull and flat.

CURBSTOMP~! And now Orton kicks out. Can we BAN finisher kick outs please? PLEASE? 

Well. That RKO was actually fucking AWESOME.










Meanwhile, the rest of the match was SHIT.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Triple H Vs Sting*

:lmao this is happening now? Well, better for Sting to have his entrance in the day time than Undertaker . Though HHH's entrance could probably have done with being in the dark too. Guess we'll see. He's gonna be THE TERMINATOR apparently. I hope Sting brings out ROBOCOP.

:lmao WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT FOR STING'S ENTRANCE? :lmao

Ok, come on HHH. I don't like you, and you don't like me, but your entrance at least has potential to be good .

:mark: A BUNCH OF TERMINATORS ON STAGE :mark:. STING HAS BEEN MARKED FOR TERMINATION :mark:. TERMINATOR THEME :mark:

:lmao it started off good and then... HHH appeared :lmao.










:lmao that just looks SHIT :lmao.

I was expecting him to come out like, in the leather jacket and shit like Arnie, not like THAT :lmao.

Gotta love how HHH essentially got a face entrance. WHO CAN BOO THE FUCKING TERMINATOR?!?! WCW just got buried again 8*D.

Ok, let's see if this match is gonna be good or a trainwreck. PLEASE don't be a trainwreck. I WANT this to be good. PLEASE BE GOOD.

Sting looks in shape. For Sting.

CROTCH CHOP to Sting. And once again HHH getting a pop from the crowd. LOL. HE'S A GREAT HEEL.

:lmao a "you still got it" chant towards Sting :lmao.

Ya know, I never thought I'd get the chance to shit on STING during a WWE PPV Ramble . Feels... good .

Sting's face is already starting to fade away. Sting looks KNACKERED already. He's old so he gets a bit of a pass. But he's also Sting so he doesn't get that much of a pass from me 8*D.

STINGER SPLASH~! HHH MOVED~! STING SPLASHED THE BARRICADE~!

Sting can lay around on the floor for most of the match now while HHH beats him down. Awww, HHH doing something nice for the OAP .

:lmao great camera shot. Sting with half his face paint worn away, and a big bald spot on top of his head, as he's on the floor at HHH's feet. 

REST HOLD~! Sting has never been so happy in his life.

SCORPION DEATH LOCK~!

DX MUSIC~!

ROAD DOGG, BILLY GUNN AND X-PAC~!

THIS IS A NO DQ MATCH~! WHY AM I ONLY FINDING THIS OUT NOW?

OH SHIT STING JUMPED OFF THE TOP ROPE ONTO DX ON THE FLOOR~!

OLD MEN EVERYWHERE~!

PEDIGREE~!

And of course Sting kicks out. Gotta have DEM FINISHER KICK OUTS.

Hai Sledgy the Sledgehammer .

THE NWO~!

Are... are they here to help Sting? Or destroy Sting? Didn't they hate Sting and WCW?

:lmao DX Vs NWO :lmao.

STING FROM BEHIND~! SCORPION DEATH DROP~!

:lmao HHH kicks out :lmao.

:lmao the NWO are actually here to help Sting :lmao.

Scorpion Death Lock applied. HHH reaches for the Sledgehammer, but Hogan drags it out of the ring. And then DX and NWO get into it again. HALL TAKES A BACK BODY DROP ON THE FLOOR~! I think that might be the most impressive thing of the match so far lol.

So, where is HBK in all this? WE NEED A SUPERKICK TO KEEP THE STREAK GOING!!!

:lmao I swear I didn't know that was coming, but SECONDS AFTER I WROTE THAT, HBK showed up and Superkicked Sting :lmao. EVERY MATCH SO FAR HAS HAD A SUPERKICK :lmao.

And of course Sting kicks out. FINISHING MOVES DON'T WORK AT WRESTLEMANIA.

BAT VS SLEDGEHAMMER~!

Bat wins.

STINGER SPLASH~!

STINGER SPLASH COUNTERED WITH SLEDGEHAMMER TO THE FACE~!

HHH WINS~!

:lmao TRIPLE H WINS :lmao.

:lmao

:lmao

:lmao

This. Was. HILARIOUS. And not in a good way. An overbooked clusterfuck match with Sting and WCW once again getting buried :lmao. WHY DID STING AGREE TO THIS?!?! :lmao

THEN THEY SHAKE HANDS? WHAT? WHY? HOW? WHEN? WHERE? WHOSEIT? WHATSIT? WHAAA?

:lmao

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Bunch of IC champs of the past suck Bryan's cock. Steamboat says the ladder match was up there with his match against Savage :lmao. Then Flair comes along to WOO and chop Steamboat :lmao. Bret Hart shows up. Then they all start chanting YES! :lmao. I don't know if that was a good segment for Bryan or not lol.

Some apparent well known singers show up to do something. NEVER heard of any of them. Aaaaand skipping ahead . I look forward to the DVD/Bluray release where they cut the segment out entirely .


*AJ Lee & Paige Vs Brie & Nikki Bella*

Paige and AJ win.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


The HOF'ers for 2015 come out. OH MY GOD THAT ULTIMATE WARRIOR STATUE IS TERRIFYING. WHAT DID THEY DO TO HIS FACE?!?!


*Rusev Vs John Cena - WWE United States Championship Match*

:lmao big video package putting over DA US OF A which gets a great reaction from the fans. Then Cena follows it and gets booed and "John Cena Sucks" chants. Ahhh, gotta love it .

Been a while since I watched Rocky IV. No idea why I thought of that :side:.

Fuck me, we're barely 2 minutes into this match and we've already had Rusev standing over Cena with the Russian flag, and Cena going through his 5 moves of doom and teasing an AA. Surprised he didn't hit it that early so we can have yet another finisher kick out at WM.

LET'S GO LANA chant :lmao.

This match has gone for last 5 minutes and they are wrestling it like they've already gone 20 and are having to go slow because they're knackered.

SUPERKICK~! Shame the divas match didn't have one of those.

YOU CAN'T BEAT ME JOHN CENA!!!

STF and... Lana randomly throws her show in the ring :lmao. The referee just kicks it out of the ring. Well, glad that happened...

What the... was that a... springboard Stunner? 

Accolade locked in. The odds of Cena escaping? High. Very high.

Oh look, he did it. STF now. Looks painful. Gotta feel for Rusev in this hold, having to pretend it hurts even though it clearly looks like shit .

RUSEV JUST PLOUGHED INTO LANA~! 

AA and Cena wins :lmao.

Fuck me, yet another boring shitty match at WM. Did everyone forget how to work a match? There was nothing to this. Just both men taking turns at hitting moves.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Almost seems like they are trying to kill time in hopes that it gets dark soon for Undertaker's entrance . WM panel, pre-show clips, and then Steph and HHH cutting a promo in the ring. Gotta give it to HHH though, guy doesn't look like he's had any sort of match tonight. If only he didn't. Just realised, no Sheamus yet. Is he gonna show up here? Seems like the right time. Though wasn't he supposed to be a heel on his return? I don't know any more. Guess he'll show up on Raw. Urgh, Dwayne Johnson. Shouldn't he be off filming FAST CARS AND EXPLOSIONS 23: THE SAME SHIT AS THE LAST 22?

:lmao they really ARE wasting time. Dwayne spends about 5 minutes on top of the ramp pacing up and down :lmao. And now he's standing in the ring just hoping the fans will chant his name to kill even more time :lmao.

Doesn't seem to be getting dark though. So this is a giant waste of time :lmao. This better not be setting up Rock Vs HHH for next year. HHH needs to stop putting himself in big feuds that nobody wants to see. 

DID YOU KNOW? The Rock was born in the East Bay. Huh, I was born in a hospital.

OH MY GOD THIS SEGMENT SERIOUSLY IS NOT GOING TO END UNTIL IT GETS DARK. They just keep going on and on and on and on about absolutely NOTHING.

Rock stares down some... women... in the crowd. IT'S OVER 9000 t-shirt :mark:.

And yes, I know who she is. RONDA. I ain't THAT out of touch when it comes to reality. I've seen her beat the shit out of women in like 20 seconds a few times. The fact she's a DBZ fan interests me the most though :lmao. VEGETA~!

RONDA'S GONNA KILL YOU~!

They could have had the Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal on the main card. But once again Rock takes up precious time with utter shit.

RONDA VS THE ROCK. I'd pay 9.99 for the Network for a month to see that match on PPV.

Why is HHH still there. HE'S DONE NOTHING FOR LIKE 10 MINUTES.

Aaaaand HHH is talking again. LET RONDA BEAT HIM UP. Bah, Rock attacks him instead. What a cunt. RONDA TAKES DOWN HHH :mark:. BREAK HIS ARM :mark:.

STEPHANIE VS RONDA~! Stephanie has officially lasted longer in the ring with Ronda than most trained MMM professionals 8*D.

This whole segment was POINTLESS. And boring. And shitty. And pointless. And shitty. And boring. And shitty. And pointless. And boring. And it's still light, so it didn't even do a good job wasting time :lmao.


*The Undertaker Vs Bray Wyatt*

:mark: THE RETURN OF THE UNDERTAKER :mark:.

Ummm... Bray? It's light out still. WHY DO YOU HAVE A LANTERN? 

FUCK ME WHAT THE HELL IS THAT?!?! ZOMBIE SCARECROWS. WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE! *runs away screaming like a little girl... I MEAN LIKE A MAN*

I wonder if those are gonna replace the Druids when Bray takes over Undertaker's role 8*D.

Well, here we go. UNDERTAKER TIME.

:lmao did we just hear the camera man coughing due to the smoke from 'Taker's entrance? :lmao

UNDERTAKER IS HERE :mark:.

Fuck me, he looks 10 years younger than he did last year lol. Must be the hair. He's also dressed pretty similar to how he was when he returned at WM XX. Leather pants instead of his traditional wrestling tights.

:mark: UNDERTAKER.

BOOT TO THE FACE~! And here we go, the match is on!

OLD SCHOOL :mark:.

Well so far, other than being a little slower than 5 years ago, 'Taker looks pretty damn FANTASTIC. No ****. Talking about his conditioning and ability to perform moves and take bumps.

APRON LEG DROP~!

:mark: SNAKE EYES. RUNNING BIG BOOT... COUNTERED WITH THAT CRAZY KAMIKAZE CROSS BODY THING HE DOES :mark:. Was hoping for that spot, but wasn't sure if Undertaker would be in any condition to take the bump lol. Having Bray basically throw himself at you isn't something to be taken lightly lol.

PUNCHES TO THE FACE~!

... the fuck lol? Bray I *think* was trying to smash Undertaker's skull into the ring post but... ended up just talking one of those classic Undertaker/Mankind knees first into the steel steps bump :lmao.

Undertaker is showing signs of not being what he once was, and Bray is methodically taking him apart and perhaps trying to take advantage of the fact last year Undertaker suffered the concussion.

HELLS GATE~! Wyatt counters with PUNCHES TO THE FACE~!

The difference between this year and last year though... is that Undertaker isn't concussed. HE'S FUCKING PISSED. And sooner or later Bray is gonna find out just how different those things are :mark:.

SISTER ABIGAIL~! Undertaker counters with a Chokeslam :mark:.

TOMBSTONE~!

1...2... BRAY KICKS OUT. Well fuck me. Not the big shocking moment like WM 25 with HBK, but I gotta say, I didn't expect Bray to kick out of the Tombstone.

:lmao Undertaker's face looks more like a confused old man than the awesome "what the fuck?" face he did at WM 25 . He was more "HUH? DID WE PLAN THAT? WASN'T THAT THE FINISH? WHERE AM I AGAIN?" .

BRAY COUNTERS A TOMBSTONE INTO SISTER ABIGAIL~!

Yet another finisher kick out to add to the ever growing list of finisher kickouts on this show lol.

:mark: yes, another spot that everyone wanted to see in the match happen has happened :mark:. Spider Bray walks into SIT UP Undertaker :mark:. Even Bray shat himself!!!

The Dead Man ain't DEAD yet, he wants Bray to bring it to him even more :mark:. If Bray wants to be the new FACE OF FEAR he's quite literally going to have to go through Undertaker.

Bray looks to end it with a second Sister Abigail, but Undertaker counters with a second Tombstone and this time Bray stays down!

THE UNDERTAKER HAS RISEN AND IS STILL GOING STONG~!

An enjoyable match . Nothing amazing, but Undertaker looked great, Bray was good, and they put on a nice little match. Finally, with one match left, WM 31 gets some CAL SCALE points :lmao.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Brock Lesnar Vs Roman Reigns - WWE World Heavyweight Championship Match*

I CAN. I WILL. Yeah ok.

Yes, Heyman announcing Lesnar :mark:. Nobody does it better!

Ok, off to a great start :mark:. They charge at each other, Lesnar picks up Roman like a nobody, smashes him into the corner, hits a German Suplex and then an F-5!!! But Lesnar is bleeding from a punch it seems, and well, I guess he doesn't want this match to end any time soon :mark:.

I think like most people, I wasn't REALLY expecting much from this match... however right now they are doing exactly what I would have HOPED they would do for the match to at least try and make it entertaining. And they aren't just TRYING, they are DOING.

Lesnar is just a fucking BEAST. I don't think any nickname has ever suited a wrestler more than Lesnar being known as a BEAST. He's fucking toying with Reigns. Despite the fact one side of his face has put on weight due to swelling lol. It's like he doesn't even notice it. BROCK should have been the one to come out at the fucking Terminator. Hell, that should be the next film. BROCK VS THE TERMINATOR. I'd still pick Brock to win. He'd rip apart any fucking Cyborg in his path.

:mark: those fucking KNEES TO THE FACE :mark:. So glad Lesnar resigned for THREE YEARS. Kinda hope he has more dates on his contract this time though, because I need more BROCK in my life beating the shit out of people.

Reigns stiffing the shit out of Lesnar now :mark:. And Lesnar fucking CREAMS HIM :mark:.

Gotta give it to Reigns here too. He's taking the beating of his fucking life, but he keeps getting up and keeps coming back for more. Shame the fans turned on him because this would be a great babyface performance if the crowd were on his side lol.

F-5~! And Reigns kicks out! Now, how much better would that have been had we not had a million finisher kick outs before this match? Undertaker/Bray could have kept theirs in, but even still, THAT should have been the first finisher kick out of the show tbh.

Reigns is fucking LAUGHING :mark:. He's talking smack to Lesnar while taking a beating :mark:. He's pissing Lesnar off, but he's still hanging in there!!!

Third F-5 of the match and again Roman kicks out! This time Lesnar isn't happy. And well, that's BAD for Roman.

LESNAR GETS HIS FACE SMASHED INTO THE RING POST~! LESNAR IS DRIPPING WITH BLOOD~! THINGS ARE PICKING UP :mark:.

Reigns needs to take advantage of this because he might not get another chance quite like this one.

SUPERMAN PUNCH~!

LESNAR DOESN'T GO DOWN :marK:.

A SECOND SUPERMAN PUNCH~!

LESNAR ONLY GOES DOWN ON ONE KNEE :mark:.

Lesnar catches a third attempt and tries to German Suplex him, but ends up taking yet another SUPERMAN PUNCH~!

SPEAR~!

LESNAR IS BACK UP~!

SPEAR~!

KICK OUT~!

YES! YES! YES! YES!

LESNAR WILL NOT DIE~!

:mark:

SUPERMAN PUNCH COUNTERED INTO ANOTHER F-5~!

Both men are down and... SETH ROLLINS IS ABOUT TO CASH IN!!! OH SHIT!

So is this now a triple threat? Yup! :mark:

Oh wait... does this mean they're gonna have Lesnar beat Rollins, allowing Reigns ot not win the title but technically not lose either? :lmao.

CURBSTOMP~!

CURBSTOMP COUNTERED INTO AN F-5 COUNTERED INTO A SPEAR~!

CURBSTOMP TO REIGNS AND... SETH ROLLINGS WINS THE TITLE! THE BELT IS OFF LESNAR WITHOUT LESNAR LOSING~! REIGNS DIDN'T WIN~!

Not sure I like how the belt was taken away from Lesnar, or that Seth is the champ now... but damn this was a great match! Blew my expectations out of the water, just wish Lesnar won.

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 5*
*Overall CAL SCALE (with Pre-Show) - 6.5*​


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Only watched 4 matches from Mania. The main event, which was fucking awesome, and the first 3 matches on the card. The ladder match had a few good moments but was mostly trash. Orton/Rollins was solid and that was possibly the best RKO ever. HHH/Sting was entertaining and about as good as it could've been imo. The retarded booking didn't matter to me, I had fun watching it. Lost my shit when Michaels hit SCM. Lesnar/Reigns was excellent and Rollins leaving with the belt was the perfect ending. Definitely plan on watching that match again. Probably won't re-watch anything else and I doubt I'll bother to watch Cena/Rusev or Taker/Bray.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

People not liking Sting/Triple H just make me feel like they take things too seriously. It was super fun and it was something similar to what I would do with my action figures when I was a kid. Those are all the guys I grew up watching and seeing them all in the ring together was really cool. Sure the match was overbooked but it should have been overbooked. The match was 2 of the guys from the Monday Night Wars going to battle. And they had a match that was a straight callback to WCW and the WWG during that time period. It reminded me of a main event that you would see on Raw or Nitro at the time. Honestly it reminded me of Rock/Foley from Raw where Foley wins the title. Each guy has a squad of allies at ringside and there is just a ton of stuff going on. 

Nash selling his quad when he fell was worth at least a full star on it's own. Hall taking a backdrop when the dude either has or had a fucking pacemaker is probably worth a half star on it's own as well. Maybe another full star for Shawn Michaels hitting SCM on Sting. Match was fun and nostalgic. 

And it made sense for the NWO to help Sting. I know they were rivals but the match was booked as WWF vs. WCW. In every kid's fantasy booking rivals from the same company would work together. So the NWO helped Sting.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

Would I be wrong to argue that main event was the best Wrestlemania main event since Rock/Austin?


----------



## Shaun_27 (Apr 12, 2011)

Mind blown at Meltzer/Alvarez. "Best show ever", i cant believe we watched the same show.


----------



## RATED R RULES (May 27, 2007)

PLAY BUTTON STARZZ and brief thoughts

Tag Team Titles: ***. Right. I'm sure you'll all think this is too high but idgaf it was fun and a mess and I had no clue who was legal at any stage and yeah enjoyable as fuck so I bumped it up. 

Battle Royal: **. Meh. It's a battle royal full of jobbers plus a few relevant guys with nought better to do. Can't expect more. Mizdow section was ok but would rather they had a match at Mania rather than this. 

LADDERZ: ***1/4. Better than I feared it would be. Not as spotty as some MITB's. Winner was inevitable and I accept it.

Orton vs Rollins: ***1/4. Yeah well. There were bits of this that weren't great. Kickouts are a no. But despite myself I still enjoyed it for no logical reason. *** match plus a 1/4* bump for DAT RKO OUTTA THE AIR. (Worst match review in history I know)

Triple H vs Sting: *3/4. SHENANIGANS. Some childhood feels. Vince burying WCW. HHH ego boost. But just no to this tripe booking. The Handshake. UGH. PLUS WHY DOES STING = ASIAN DRUMMERS??? I had a bit of fun laughing through shaking my head or it woulda been nearing DUDsville

Some woman in a tin foil tracksuit sings some shite.

Diva Tag: *. Realistically 1/2 a star for the match plus the mandatory 1/2 a star bump for Nikki's body.

Russia vs USA: **. I always hate America for a good while after seeing this kinda shite. As for the match. Just meh. Standard as fuck plus one AA beating a year long undefeated run. Madness. Only 2 stars as I can't bring myself to rate it the same as the clusterfuck earlier.

Taker vs Wyatt: **1/2. Need to rewatch this to be honest. Didn't feel it really. Taker looked nice looks wise. Looked well past it really performance wise. But it wasn't bad at all. Some nice bits I liked dotted about. Crucial they bring Wyatt back strongly tonight! As for Taker. I still would love them to do Taker vs Sting next year in a double retirement match. Yes I know it'd be the worst match in history cos AGE but the build up COULD be epic plussss those feels next year if they were in the ring together. May well never happen though but I can dream.

Shut the fuck up Stephanie. Starting to piss me off now and not in the heel way. Rock was yeah okay. Rousey is nice. Don't know if I'm attracted to or scared as fuck of her. God it dragged on. DON'T FUCKING DARE DO HHH V ROCK NEXT YEAR INSTEAD OF ROCK/BROCK. Stephanie didn't even get the proper Rousey treatment  Maybe some other time. Bitch.

Lesnar v Reigns. ****. Yes four stars for a Reigns singles match. Thought he brought it here. Stiffness. Slugfest. Brawling. Colour! Just epic. Love Lesnar so much, he just makes everything feel epic in some way. Suplex City Bitch was classic. Three F5 kick outs is dumb as fuck but mmm Reigns came out credibly. Wayyyy beyond expectations this one

Cash in was awesome. Only real way you can get the belt off him unless there is someone credible right now to beat him (there isn't) or you have him hold it for a long ass time. Loved the way Rollins sprinted away from the ring as fast as humanly possible as well. Some good character work and booking here. All 3 men look good here now. 

Final Thoughts: Right well the ratings don't tell the true story of the fact I found everything here fun again. Surpassed my low expectations by a wide margin. Match quality was not quite there but nothing I could never sit through again. I would honestly say if I got to chose one match I could never have to see again it'd be the blandness of Cena v Rusev. Not memorable or fun or anything. Lana had my eyes for most of it. Only dark moment bar the music shite. No top 5 Mania or by any means or anything but a good SHOW and I had a ball. I can see why someone like Cal could hate this. Cannot argue with that but I just enjoyed the fuck outta most of it so yeah. You get the drift. And this review Is terrible I know. most of it was just random words everywhere or me saying 'fun' or 'enjoyable' but oh well. Looking forward to Raw as the last show before it all goes to pot again


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

*WrestleMania Play Button*
Ladder Match: ***3/4*
Rollins vs. Orton: ***3/4*
Sting vs. Triple H: LMAO, pls go
Divas: idc
Rusev vs. Cena: ***
Wyatt vs. Undertaker: ***1/4*
Reigns vs. Brock (vs. Rollins): *****1/2*

Ladder Match had a wacky start. Barrett was the best guy in there. I like Bryan winning, and the match was fun to watch. Orton/Rollins feud is nonsense so I won't hold the match not conveying any heat against it. Flowed well, had good spots and a great finish. Did not need to trade finishers in a 13 minute match. I would've been fine with an RKO kickout but the curbstomp one was completely unnecessary.

Sting and Hunter both had very strange entrances. The match started off really well imo then took a huge nosedive once the angle started playing out. You can find meaning in the decisions (by saying it's a re-enactment of the monday night wars) but it doesn't really matter if you don't care. I was surprised they went the way they did so that's something.

Rusev/Cena was weak. Things happened and Cena won. Not much more to add. Bray's entrance was awesome. The match had moments too, the spider vs. sit-up, sister abigail into a chokeslam etc. but it felt boring. Idk what the story was and the match didn't really help me understand it either. Run of the mill stuff.

Reigns/Brock was fantastic. Tried their best Cena/Brock Extreme Rules imitation with Reigns growing into his role. Quality was already really high when Rollins made his entry and that pretty much pushed it to MOTY level. Excellent main event. Now I'm going to watch RAW because I really like Rollins and am looking forward to how they handle Reigns + Brock. Suffice it to say things could go downhill faster than Sting's wrestlemania moment.

(Add) The Ronda moment was nice (her shirt was nicer) but it dragged on eternally. Does the Rock specialise in wasting people's time? Between the fast and furious movies and the last 5 wrestlemanias, he's quite painful to watch.


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

#Mark said:


> Would I be wrong to argue that main event was the best Wrestlemania main event since Rock/Austin?


I think it's a top-5 WM ME ever.

1. The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (WM26)
2. The Rock vs. Steve Austin (WM17)
3. Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Benoit (WM20)
4. Randy Orton vs. Batista vs. Daniel Bryan (WM30)
5. Brock Lesnar vs. Roman Reigns (WM31).

Amazing match.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I'll give you that Wyatt/Undertaker was kind of boring. But I feel like it served it's purpose. The whole question was if Undertaker was still the Undertaker and after last night we can say that he is still the Undertaker and that he certainly isn't done yet. I don't think they really tried to do anything more than that in the match. If it leads to him challenging Sting then it was worth it. If it leads to something else then I really have no idea why they did that.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

NastyYaffa said:


> I think it's a top-5 WM ME ever.
> 
> 1. The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (WM26)
> 2. The Rock vs. Steve Austin (WM17)
> ...


Yeah, I think those matches should be the consensus five. I don't necessarily agree with the order since I was never that fond of HBK/Taker but I don't disagree with the five matches. Reigns really impressed last night and Brock has proven to be the best wrestler in the world right now. Can't wait until his masterpiece with Bryan.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

TaylorFitz said:


> I'll give you that Wyatt/Undertaker was kind of boring. But I feel like it served it's purpose. The whole question was if Undertaker was still the Undertaker and after last night we can say that he is still the Undertaker and that he certainly isn't done yet.


All it demonstrated to me was he should be done.


----------



## ashley678 (Dec 7, 2007)

haribo said:


> All it demonstrated to me was he should be done.


i agree after the tackle bray did to taker, taker completey slowed down and the commentators even mentioned could this be reflecting the same as last year where he got concussed.

yea it was probs good selling but since that moment taker was slow as fuck and hardly did much more until the tombstone.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*
Ended up enjoying the show more than I thought I would, although granted I had no expectations at all for it. Tag Titles match was pretty fun although they went too long in spot spot spot mode. Remember when Nattie used to show like barely any skin? They covered for actually-hurt-Uso really well and made not-hurt-Uso look really good (by accident). It's obvious how sad it is but it really struck me here when he's trading spots with Los Matadores how much they dropped the ball with Cesaro. Los Matadores have awesome entrance music btw and I think that's the first time I've actually watched their entrance. Torito did nothing with Cesaro. Boo. Battle Royal which was pretty fun in the sense it didn't drag. Itami shouldn't have won or anything like that but I don't get the point of having him in there to look so average. Sure Show eliminated him rather than a geek but he went out at the geek elimination stage of the match and didn't even get that impressive showing on offence. I don't think he eliminated anyone. Not that eliminations mean much but it's an idea of how little they showcased him. He's obviously not debuting soon so I don't know why he got the spot over someone like Neville. I don't think we ever saw Rowan get eliminated. I feel that should be mentioned. Mizdow turn was decent but felt a bit underwhelming given how hot I remember the thing being the last time I saw it which was probably months ago and also probably the reason for it. I dug him not winning and it actually worked better to have him put up a fight but still lose because for as good as he is he has a low glass ceiling that isn't changing any time soon for that act. He's a fun goofball comedy act that got his moment. That's a success for that character. Big Show never winning a Battle Royal before this shocked me. Also super foreshadowed the finish but with Mizdow being the last guy there was enough suspense. Their final run was pretty good. Show is an amazing athlete and is super good in this role but there's always that "what's the point with him anymore" thing attached to a Big Show push. Renee Young is beautiful. Corey Graves in a tux is an oxymoron if ever there was one.

Side note, I loved how so much of the show was in the booming sunlight. Looked awesome and gave the show a 80s supercard esque feel. I'm all for shows that look different and this one had that. Ladder Match did nothing for me but at least it seemed safe bar Ambrose's bump. Really not any spots worth mentioning that were memorable besides that one. Really no benefit from the dangerous bump though because it's just another Ladder bump now. Ziggler's hair looked super pretty. And then he remembered he was in a wrestling match and it looked only half pretty. Granted he didn't take much punishment but I hate how often Dolph would just charge up the Ladder. Bryan did nothing wrestling wise at Wrestlemania which is sad. He got the condescending pat on the head win and the goofy backstage promo. Last year he was the most over guy they've had for like a decade. Cole saying we've started this years Wrestlemania how we ended last years like it was some sort of positive was super bad. Commentary on the whole was awful. I'd say replace them all but the Cole clones in NXT are just as bad. They're all just corporate puppets with no personality and the most legit guy they had they took off (Regal).

Rollins/Orton was just nothing. Felt like they were just going through the motions, not even in a bad way but it was just this is who we are and these are the moves we do. No heat given the build and that's a big knock on both guys but especially Orton. He wrestled this like he would a TV match against Dolph Ziggler. The RKO from literally anywhere thing is getting out of hand if this is where they're at now with it. It looked pretty cool but not cool enough to warrant the dumbness of it. At least have Orton clearly lift Rollins up there rather than it just so clearly being Rollins jumping up there himself. Absolutely hated the 2nd match on the card getting the finisher treatment. It's just awful. First RKO didn't have any build to it but I thought this would just be the match that got shafted for time. It's just awful and like I feel i say every month, no fan with a working brain should be buying the first finisher as the finish, even in undercard PPV matches now it seems. They did it last month in The Usos match too and it's just infinitely bad when it's the trend in matches at this level. It just kills the whole concept of finishers and any benefit you get from them. Now it's wait for the second finisher to be hit to buy into the near fall or maybe wait even longer if it's a super big match. Of course then when you do actually finish on the first finisher nobody is ready for it and it makes the other guy look really bad like it did Rusev. Of all the people who kick out of the first AA and Rusev doesn't?

Hunter/Sting was way better than it had any right to be thanks to all the smoke and mirrors. Entrances were odd in the sense they made no sense. Hunter's was at least kinda cool even if the "I've been waiting for you" line drove me crazy. Hunter is friends now with an actual megastar and he wants the whole world to know it. Never fails to make me giggle how much WWE geek out when they get accepted as friends by big stars from other industries. Figured the smoke and mirrors out when they announced it was pin or submission finish only. Was that announced before the show? Missed it if it was. DX run in I groaned at because it just felt super corny and oh let's get my buddies on the show. NWO run in I kinda popped for, especially when NWO Hogan joined them. The whole stuff made zero sense but it was fun enough to make up for it. Hall took a nutty bump given the context. Hogan took a bump and didn't crumble. I legit thought Nash tore his quad when he went down which would have been amazing dark humour. Then he got back up later and I kinda groaned because I'm sick. Popped for Sting breaking the sledgehammer in two. Totally awful but it was fun and cute enough given how the match was going. Kinda dig Shawn just having no moral compass now even if they don't play it off like that. All that was good fun but the overriding theme and outcome of the match was one of the worst things they've done lately which carries quite some weight. The whole winning the war again 14 years later thing was so bad. WWE vs WCW isn't a thing anymore expect in WWE's weird head it seems. I can only assume Hunter turned it into that rather than Sting vs The Authority so he could win. Or that was probably Vince's idea all along with Sting. Sting must be a one and done deal after that but after what they've done with Taker who knows. If there are any plans for Sting again then this finish is exponentially bad. Commentary was abysmal in this. "We won again". Big fucking deal. If the match wasn't fun this would have been one of the worst things ever. Post match handshake was super dumb too, especially when Hunter comes out and buries Sting later on the same fucking show. Hunter has the weirdest personality dynamic ever. Strives so hard to be hated and beloved at the same time. The whole thing was just putting Hunter and WWE over which it really didn't do at all. Sting should be super grateful that WWE and Hunter let him work at Wrestlemania before he retired. Sting looked fine btw but at the same time let's not pretend this was worked like a hard match to work. Sting did his stuff and had a really quick FIP segment and he did it well.

Divas match got time and it was better than average. It's another one of those condescending pat on the heads to fans though.

Cena/Rusev wasn't much of anything. Rusev looked great though. Oh and he came out on top of a tank. Awesome. Cena didn't do much for me again. What was the deal with the shoes? Just so Lana could take the bump without them on? I guess they're splitting them up because of course they are. Nobody can stay together for over a year god damn it. So Lana becomes an American again and Rusev loses a key part of the act? Okay. Hopefully they build Rusev back up and keep him strong because he's really good in the ring in this role. America fuck yeah thing before Cena's entrance made me groan. Not because I'm not American but because it feels so outdated. The USA thing wasn't over and never really has been for this whole run besides when Zeb got on the mic because you know he's a bit special. I can just imagine Vince smoking a cigar at this point in the show and toasting it to WWE and American coming out on top again.

I LOVED the Rock/Rousey segment. Steph is brilliant at the heel delivery but she sucks as a heel because what's the point on building all the heat for there to be no payoff. They never get theirs. But Steph has great delivery and heel content so I can at least dig watching one of her promos like once every quarter like this. Rock stuff was cool. Rock is like a native of everywhere in the world now it seems. Steph probably went a bit too HAM on that slap. They showed Ronda earlier in the front row so when Rock started walking there I sort of had it in my head that she was there and geeked out at the idea of her getting Steph. And then it happened and I proper geeked out. I guess if you don't really dig Rock and/or Rousey then you probably hated this being this long at this stage on the show but I'll always enjoy Rock promos and I love Rousey's aura so I super dug this and was so hyped for Rousey going HAM. I think Steph showed enough ass for Ronda to the point it didn't piss me off but yeah it should have been all fear once Ronda jumped the barricade. It's a shame that Rousey obviously couldn't go HAM on Steph which is also why putting so much heat on these two but especially Steph is silly but that would have made the segment. Hunter's career moment was the bump he took for Brie Bella but his bump for Rousey might be #2. Given Rousey couldn't actually hurt Steph what they did was probably the best possible scenario. Also Hunter stood behind his wife doing nothing for a bit too long. So I guess that means Rock/Hunter next year. It's a match I suppose. Hunter kinda overvalues his worth in that role but let's face it, they'll still sell the place out and the network buys are what they are regardless. Assuming Rousey and Steph are just in the corners. They can't work each other and a mixed tag undervalues the match at least on paper. Just have Ronda there and have her chock Steph out I guess is the best scenario. Or just have Ronda/Hunter and give me 10 minutes of Hunter bumping off Rousey's judo throws and I'm happy. This and the main event made this feel like not only a Wrestlemania but a good one.

Bray/Taker did nothing for me. It felt like they wanted to go for this big epic but without the build to it. Like one moment Taker was destroying Wyatt and then the next he was at death's door. Okay. Didn't think Bray brought much of anything to the table here. Don't get why this happened at all tbh.

I thought the main event was great and the best Brock match since the Punk one. 3rd best Brock match since his return probably. Reigns looked super and I don't get how anyone could say he didn't look good (I don't think if this is a thing yet but still). Thought he looked great smirking as he took the beating and it worked in making him look badass[/mac]. Brock was awesome in control as everyone already knew but his work after the ring post bump was incredible. The sell of the punches was sublime. Ring post spot busting Lesnar open like it did made it work because if a match like that is turning around so drastically and so rapidly it better be off a game changing bump. I'm not a blood chanting fan but the blood made that spot and big part of the match. I doubt Vince would have sanctioned a blade and I'm pretty sure Heyman and Brock are smart enough and crazy enough to agree to take the bump hardway to get it and the match over. Like Brock gives a shit about a cracked forehead. Reigns giving Brock a massive bump and cut under his eye from the early brawl helped a lot too. I'm not usually a yay they really hurt each other guy, far from it actually, but it helped a lot here and the air of legitimacy the match had because of it helped. Reigns is a really great brawler and really lays his shots in. He did at Fast Lane too but probably extra so here because it's Lesnar and he's probably willing if not happy to take the hard shots because he'll dish them back out even harder. Everything before the finish was pretty much as good as it could be and booked exactly how it should have been. Also didn't think Reigns got shit on that bad but the live crowd noise never picks up well on TV for outside shows which really hurts Mania imo. Rollins cash in I was weary about not working but it worked perfectly. Not ever WM main event you could get away with a non-clean finish but it worked here and didn't hurt anyone. Brock never lost and Reigns only lost after taking everything Brock had. Too many F5 kickouts but if you accept what the stupid standard for finisher kickouts is now, Reigns being able to go a step further was good. It's just a shame that it's a step further than what is already a step too far. Rollins running straight up the ramp away from danger was my favourite little thing on the show. Rollins does an amazing heel run away. Him running all the way from the ring out of the arena at the Rumble was golden too. Got over the idea that Rollins literally stole the title away perfectly too. I'm glad they did finally do the Mania cash in but even more so that it worked out as well as it did. I can't believe I forgot it but Rollins swinging the belt around his head was the best thing on the show. SWING THAT BELT BABY SWING IIIIIIIT

Definitely not a great show but for sure a good one that was enjoyable enough. Only match I wish I could have the time back from was Taker/Wyatt and the only terrible booking move was Sting/Hunter. Enjoyed it more than 30 too and thought Lesnar/Reigns was a better match than anything on 30.

*


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

IMO best matches to worst:

1) Ladder
2) Main event
3) Orton/Rollins
4) Cena/Rusev
5) Divas ~ Sting/HHH
6) Wyatt/Taker

I am probably the only one but I thought Wyatt/Taker was BAD. Like really unremarkable. I mostly had fun with the other matches though. The Sting/HHH shenanigans weren't for me but it was a funny enough trainwreck.

Reigns/Lesnar was very fun too but I don't think it's an all time great WM match.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Overall, it was pretty damn awesome. SHRIMP DIP~! SPRING ROLLS:mark: BRISKET ON HAWAIIAN ROLLS W/PICKLED ONION:kanye2Top 5 WM buffet table ever. 

Show was mostly good, and over the top when it was bad, which is all you can ever ask for. Didn't watch the pre-show b/c food, drink, and respect for Cesaro. Seriously, fuck pairing him w/guys like Kidd, Swagger, and clowns of the like. 

Ladder match was...stupid? IDK, some people liked it. I like dipping kettle chips in shrimp dip, yet people all around me are using wimpy crackers, and even *gasp* celery. WTF is wrong w/ you people! Ambrose NEARLY died. It's stupid. Like, when a guy beats his wife b/c the boys at work call him "tiny prick" or something. Misplaced frustration. There was a lot to roll my eyes at in this, so I'll stop now.

I actually didn't remember the build much for Rollins/Orton lol) until it was pointed out later to me, but I really enjoyed it up until then. It was like an old IC Title match from single digit WMs and had a lot of stuff in it. 

Sting/HHH was so bad it was good? Like, at one point there was 6-700 years in the ring:lol Waltman going HAM for Hogan, Hall's bbd, and the Nash quad sell blew the roof off the place. I think there was an old Mad Magazine bit that parodied super-old Wrestling Legend Grandpas, still keeping the feud alive after all these years. This match was a parody of a parody. I was :lmao for the last 5 minutes of the match THEN HHH WINS AND THEY SHOOK HANDS! :lmao 

Also, celery & shrimp dip bama

The Rock was my bathroom break and also finding out about the Rollins/Orton build :lol 

Wyatt/Taker was good. I think all the damn finisher kickouts hurt this more than any other match, because there wasn't a lot of tension for me, outside of Taker's reaction to Wyatt's Tombstone kickout. 

Brock/Reigns was super-fun. Best match on the card by a wide margin. Brock:mark: The first five minutes was flawless. Brock's got a whole unique structure to his matches now, and it's fucking incredible. Feels like a prizefight. Loved in the opening that Reigns got his shot in and busted Lesnar - put his mark on the match. I didn't mind the smiling through the heat, but wasn't properly capitalized on imo. You have to give some credit to Reigns - man-sized beatings are doled out by Lesnar - I don't care if it's Reigns, Ziggler, or your local jobber, respect. Now, for the "shield" Roman was wearing. WTF was that? I saw it early on - this pad on his newly-designed vest - just under his shoulder blades that looked to be for added protection I imagine. Wasn't really feeling that; monkey on a dog type-stuff. Still, was hard not to be excited for the match. Lesnar just tossing out an f-5 doesn't feel out of place with the type of matches he's working. Reigns really needs another signature move, but I really liked it.* *****


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

first live WM and it was fun as hell. It's interesting to see the difference being live makes on impressions of the show. I could totally see myself bitching about the same stuff you guys are if I watched it on the network but when you are there you let it go and have fun. Terminator entrance/Rock segment/Sting match silly run-ins/Taker entrance and match all were way more awesome because of the atmosphere and spectacle to it all.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

As far as top Mania main events go, Brock/Roman definitely doesn't make the top 5, but maybe top 10. Would put Hogan/Savage WM5, Hogan/Warrior WM6, Rock/Austin WM17, Benoit/HBK/HHH WM20, Cena/HBK WM23, Taker/Edge WM24, and Taker/HBK WM26 all above it definitely. Brock/Reigns would probably come in right after those and it's definitely the best since the WM26 one (much much much better than WM27 and WM29's main events, and I'd say a good deal better than WM28 and WM30's ones).

As far as Brock matches since returning, would put Cena ER, Punk SS, Cena SS, and triple threat with Rollins and Cena (if we're counting triple threats) above the match with Reigns.

I'd say it was a big feat though the match ended up being the clear MOTN, nothing else really came close. I was expecting that honor to go to either the ladder match or Orton/Rollins, with the off chance of Taker/Bray depending on how good of shape Taker was in. I do wonder how the match would've went had they worked it like your typical match, but at the end of the day what they did paid off tremendously and credit to both men for going all out like that. Rollins at the end was the icing on the cake.


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

NastyYaffa said:


> I think it's a top-5 WM ME ever.
> 
> 1. The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (WM26)
> 2. The Rock vs. Steve Austin (WM17)
> ...


Hmmm. I wouldn't necessarily have my WM ME ranked like that. For me its:

1. Rock vs Austin WM 17 ****3/4
2. Benoit/HHH/HBK WM 20 ****3/4
3. Michaels/Undertaker WM 26 ****3/4
4. Edge/Undertaker WM 24 ****1/4
5. Cena/HBK WM 23 ****1/4
6. Angle/Lesnar WM 19 ****
7. Orton/Bryan/Batista WM 30 ****
8. Lesnar/Reigns WM 31 ***3/4

Not too shabby though. Although all this showed me is WWE has a horrible habit of not putting the best match on last. It's downright silly tbh.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

The biggest match should always close ahead of the 'best' match.


----------



## CM_Skippy (May 1, 2012)

Wrestlemania 31 ratings...

Ladder Match - ***1/4
Rollins/Orton - ***1/2
Sting/HHH - ***1/2
Diva Tag - **1/2
Cena/Rusev - ***
Wyatt/Taker - ***1/4
Lesnar/Reigns/Rollins - ****1/4


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## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I dont know who said it in here: but somebody brought up Brock being Best in the World. Well, I haven't followed Puro much at all since Misawa died, and I hear things about this Kota Ibushi tearing it down and I routinely hear the name Okada thrown around and Suzuki, and I admit I am ignorant to all that nowadays, but in terms of America, it is an interesting argument. Guy doesn't have weekly appearances to build a catalog that a guy like Seth Rollins can, so you can't call him the workrate/result king, but attributes are an interesting argument. Criminally underrated seller especially on the babyface comeback, most physical guy in the American territories, has an auora like nobody perhaps I have ever seen since returning, gets so much impact and crowd investment out of few moves yet certainly has the ability to be expansive if the story ever changes: plays the role of durable juggernaut so damn well, can play the Taker esque predator role really well, yet on a dime can switch to arrogant, demeaning ashole heel on a dime ala last night. Guy can bump his ass off too. Obviously, the guy has physical abilities that puts him on an elite class on the fucking planet. Heck, he led a **** match with Reigns last night and was awesome as Jason Vorheese at the Rumble, yet he is at his best vs intense sub 240 lb guys. Most importantly, it doesn't get much more entertaining than in-ring Brock Lesnar killing people. 

Now, for my money, I think Cesaro is the BIA (best in America) in terms of attributes followed closely by Zayn, Lesnar, Bryan (though it is hard to beat a healthy, on game an given time Bryan) and to an extent Rollins in that narrow order (not to sell Harper short I think people would think more of him if he got a bigger spotlight more often and Im not as crazy on Steen as most. Havent followed Styles in a while), but Brock as BITW in terms of attributes is an interesting case. I think the only legitimate knock against the guy is that while he is an incredible follower, he isn't at the ring general level of the names I mentioned above, and while I could watch Brock wrestle all day, I could see where one would find his current form repetative. Also, when Brock has an subpar match (Mania 30) or one that is just barely above average (Cena NOC), it really resonates way more than weekly wrestlers because Brock wrestles so infrequently nowadays.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

There's so many stars and paragraphs to sift through, but leave it to CAL to hate everything on the show and think Taker had the 2nd best match of the night. I'm sorry, I love Undertaker just as much as the next guy, but these past two years have CLEARLY shown that he needs to call it quits. While he visibly looked in good shape in the early minutes, he moved at a snail's pace the longer it went and that's not what I wanna see. Didn't help that Wyatt did almost nothing to help the match either. His control segment featured nothing of note. Whether it's "story" or not, it's pretty boring imo. No reason for him to be back next year. Put him in the Hall of Fame and move on.



#Mark said:


> Would I be wrong to argue that main event was the best Wrestlemania main event since Rock/Austin?


You could argue it and while it was awesome, I still think the main events at 20, 23, 24, and 26 are all right there with it or above.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

On main events: 19 was better, 20 was *miles* better, 24 was better, 26 was better, 30 was better.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Will keep it short, as there is PAGES OF STARS AND REVIEWS here

I agree 100 % w/ Andre, even though I'd go lower for Orton/Rollins. Cal hit it right on the head like why isnt this a brawl, and also Orton has the most boring offense I've ever seen. Like rather watch paint dry type stuff.

Sting/HHH LOLZ x100, but I was dying laughing. I respect that they knew they couldnt do anything good, so make it like that

NAITCH lowkey chopping Steamboat like noone would see :mark: great backstage segment :mark:

Lesnar/Reigns was terrific


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## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

#Mark said:


> Would I be wrong to argue that main event was the best Wrestlemania main event since Rock/Austin?


I haven't watched 29 or 30 but I'd agree with that. Cena/Michaels is it's only competition but I'd doubt I'd think it's better.


edit - wait, I'm thinking about best WM main events and I can only think of Rock/Austin definitely being better than Lesnar/Reigns.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm down w/putting over Reigns vs Brock as one of the better main events for that question. Certainly don't have stuff like 19, 20, 21, 22, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, or 29 over it. Liked it more than 30's too. So yeah, excellent stuff. Ranks high.

And Taker ruled. But going slow is enough to leap over everyone's head b/c it wasn't an exhilarating match. Sounds like last year. (even w/a concussion)


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

That Sting/HHH match was so 2001; even Hunter's quad was reminiscing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah would you say Brock vs Reigns got to the level you hoped?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Haven't got there yet. Just finished the divas match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh. You're in filler central atm. Yikes.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/1635698-roman-reigns-earned-respect-wrestlemania.html

lmao @ the comments in here. "Reigns didn't do enough moves", "all Reigns did was punch 0/10", "Reigns didn't ANYTHING" "local indy jobber could have done what Reigns did"


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I can forgive the slow, weary pace of Undertaker/Wyatt. Undertaker is one of only a handful of people in wrestling that still make me question whether he is actually hurt or just selling. That's what I look for in a babyface and that's what kept me more than interested throughout the match. That scene of Undertaker crawling towards Wyatt in the corner was a spectacular visual. I also like watching Bray on offense, especially when he does that uranage that looks like death. There really isn't much that I disliked about that match to be honest. Well maybe Wyatt doing that silly body splash onto the ring post. But other than that, it was like watching a really good match that you would see from Undertaker during that run from 2007-2008 where he was the best television wrestler in the company. And that's perfectly fine.

Is it weird that I think that Brock Lesnar is a great wrestler, yet still not like his matches? Because I think that's how I would describe my feelings of him at the moment. The format of a Lesnar match bothers me so much now, but I can't blame it on Brock. Maybe it's because I'm scared he will kill me if I put the blame on him.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Hi

Fatal 4-Way Tag **3/4
Battle Royal *3/4
Ladder ***
Rollins/Orton ***
Triple/Sting **
Cena/Rusev *1/2
Taker/Wyatt **1/2
Main Event ****

Ha, Reigns delivered. He's regained me as a fan. Overall, it was alright, ME made it all worthwhile.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I closed a similar Reigns thread last night. Oh god, this section.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

It's almost as if http://wrestlingforum.com is an awful website :hmm:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's like wrestlecrap. We know it sucks, but continue to put up w/it for sick kicks.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Is it weird that I think that Brock Lesnar is a great wrestler, yet still not like his matches? Because I think that's how I would describe my feelings of him at the moment. The format of a Lesnar match bothers me so much now, but I can't blame it on Brock. Maybe it's because I'm scared he will kill me if I put the blame on him.


I think I understand where you're coming from but at the same time I couldn't disagree more. Lesnar's matches are one of the only things I look forward to in WWE these days. Love the format of his matches. Lesnar in control will never get old to me and it creates great comeback moments for the babyface. When done properly the heel dominating 90% of the match is probably my favorite match structure and it works even better with Brock.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WrestlingOracle said:


> I dont know who said it in here: but somebody brought up Brock being Best in the World. Well, I haven't followed Puro much at all since Misawa died, and I hear things about this Kota Ibushi tearing it down and I routinely hear the name Okada thrown around and Suzuki, and I admit I am ignorant to all that nowadays, but in terms of America, it is an interesting argument. Guy doesn't have weekly appearances to build a catalog that a guy like Seth Rollins can, so you can't call him the workrate/result king, but attributes are an interesting argument. Criminally underrated seller especially on the babyface comeback, most physical guy in the American territories, has an auora like nobody perhaps I have ever seen since returning, gets so much impact and crowd investment out of few moves yet certainly has the ability to be expansive if the story ever changes: plays the role of durable juggernaut so damn well, can play the Taker esque predator role really well, yet on a dime can switch to arrogant, demeaning ashole heel on a dime ala last night. Guy can bump his ass off too. Obviously, the guy has physical abilities that puts him on an elite class on the fucking planet. Heck, he led a **** match with Reigns last night and was awesome as Jason Vorheese at the Rumble, yet he is at his best vs intense sub 240 lb guys. Most importantly, it doesn't get much more entertaining than in-ring Brock Lesnar killing people.
> 
> Now, for my money, I think Cesaro is the BIA (best in America) in terms of attributes followed closely by Zayn, Lesnar, Bryan (though it is hard to beat a healthy, on game an given time Bryan) and to an extent Rollins in that narrow order (not to sell Harper short I think people would think more of him if he got a bigger spotlight more often and Im not as crazy on Steen as most. Havent followed Styles in a while), but Brock as BITW in terms of attributes is an interesting case. I think the only legitimate knock against the guy is that while he is an incredible follower, he isn't at the ring general level of the names I mentioned above, and while I could watch Brock wrestle all day, I could see where one would find his current form repetative. Also, when Brock has an subpar match (Mania 30) or one that is just barely above average (Cena NOC), it really resonates way more than weekly wrestlers because Brock wrestles so infrequently nowadays.


I'd say Nakamura probably has the BitW title belt right now since Bryan is still working his way back, but Sami Zayn is right there as well. You can't go wrong with Nakamura or Zayn, you just can't, they are in the upper stratosphere, reaching levels only the select few have. At least IMO. I love Brock but I can't put him up there, maybe if he consistently wrestled like he did against Punk at SS 2013, but with as much as I enjoy his work and matches, Nakamura and Zayn are bringing more to the table with a much higher frequency. Damn shame the Nakamura/Brock match from 2007 or so is nothing special, if Zayn/Brock ever happens (likelihood less than 2%) I might pass out in a fit of pure ecstasy. In that thread where we book our dream match WM's, I had to sit and think for a long, long time about whether I wanted to see Brock/Steamboat or Brock/Zayn more, that should tell you how highly I think of what Zayn does.



Hayley Seydoux said:


> I'm down w/putting over Reigns vs Brock as one of the better main events for that question. Certainly don't have stuff like 19, 20, 21, 22, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, or 29 over it. Liked it more than 30's too. So yeah, excellent stuff. Ranks high.
> 
> And Taker ruled. But going slow is enough to leap over everyone's head b/c it wasn't an exhilarating match. Sounds like last year. (even w/a concussion)



Didn't realize you weren't a big fan of Benoit/Trips/HBK, Edge/Taker, and Michaels/Taker WM 26. Go figure. To be sure, Im not a fan of Michaels or Edge's performances in those 24 and 26 matches, but Taker was so damn good I could totally overlook it and enjoy the bliss of a classic Taker performance at WM. I would have thought the litany of finishers in Brock/Reigns might have turned you off on that match a bit, shows how much I know. To me, even though I would have preferred something other than all those finishers and kick outs, I understood what they were going for and it didn't kill the match for me or anything. That match edges out the Reigns/Bryan match from Raw in 2013 as the best Reigns singles outing.

Did anyone else hear the Bryan interview on TiJ? God I wish he would have done that interview ages ago. It would have saved us from all those idiotic posts about how Bryan was a sissy or was an idiot for trusting in a witch doctor or how Bryan was selfish having surgery or how he screwed up by putting off surgery for so long. He killed all that nonsense in one fell swoop, but still it was enough to make my blood boil having to hear idiots for months and months weave this story that Bryan was some how in any way responsible for his surgery being delayed or for wasting time with holistic medicine. Turns out holistic medicine is what got him back in the ring, not another surgery. Although it was troubling to hear him say he's already completely wore down from wrestling and isn't back to 100% yet. I hope he takes care of himself and doesn't let WWE chew him up and spit him out.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I can't deny the use of Brock's F-5, but they did it in a fashion that made it completely work for the entire match. Honestly nothing about it felt bad to me. Thought it went off w/o a hitch and contained a massive aura. It's WM, it feels huge, it was a violent fight, we got a surprise end that was well orchestrated. Just great stuff.

No denying how good Taker was in those other main events, but last night's was more my style. Just snub out the personal excitement of the original date _(in regards to wanting Taker to remain undefeated, especially in the 26 match. I was on pins and needles, to say as a MASSIVE understatement)_ the Reigns vs Brock match was above all the rest. 

Ironic how all the other WM's I mentioned had either Trips or Cena in the matches, and I've thought they were all mediocre - terrible. At least John-boy had the match vs Michaels. Oh wait, WM 19 was Brock vs Angle. Well, that's still mediocre too.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yea, WM 19 Brock/Angle is a good match to me, but so, so far below what those two were capable of. They went on to prove that at SS 03', had they had THAT match at WM 19, with Brock being full blown heel and Angle a complete baby face, that would easily be a top 2-3 WM ME ever for me. I love that SS match to bits, funny they didn't even get to main event SS with that classic. I believe an EC match took precedence that year, of all things.

I just wish instead of those 4 F-5's that Brock hit if he had substituted something like a power bomb or a fall away slam. No need to have Reigns kick out of that many finishers, it wasn't going to do him any favors, the crowd boo'd louder and louder with each kick out. If you absolutely have to have him kick out of a a finisher, cause it's WM and that's what WWE does, just make it 1 right at the end. That would get the point across just as well, and believe me Brock power bombing someone or giving them a fall away slam is a believable enough false finish. Save the F-5 and make it really special, like Takers tombstone. Once Brock hits the F-5 that should be pack it in time, cause this baby is over.

I had a cool spot for Reigns/Lesnar in mind I wish they would have done it. Have Reigns go to hit the spear, but as Brock is falling on his back have Brock catch him in a full guard, with both of his legs wrapped behind Reigns back and grab Reigns arm that's used for the super man punch and lock him in the Kimura. That would have been rather nifty.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, Angle vs Brock found their niche once Angle was working babyface. I say it like that b/c even the Vengeance Triple Threat was great and Angle was already out of the heel mode by then. Then Brock became the beast again & SummerSlam took it to 11. I want to say the Ironman is killer too, but as it remains, still haven't gotten around to rewatching it. Someday I will. 60 minutes when it is amazing isn't 60 minutes. And I know that.

I wasn't surprised that Brock didn't use "more moves" in the sense, b/c that's just not how his matches are worked these days. He's not 2003 Brock anymore, he's the new legitimate monster Brock. So everything felt key to how he is today & efficient. Finishers are overused. That's WWE's thing. Especially at WM, but the good side of the multiple F-5's to me was that I legit thought it could be over any time Brock hit it. That was the cool side of such a dominating move. That & after what he did to Taker, you (_well, me, for the phrasing)_ REALLY were like _"omg he hit a third. He is gonna do it."_ Taking into account how some feel about Reigns kicking out isn't the point & anyone could have booed if they were pro-Brock. So I don't even acknowledge it like that. Best nearfall was the kick out of the two spears from Brock. Amazing stuff. The kind of thing I got flashbacks to the current red shoes ref in New Japan when he actually does a spin on those ULTRA close three counts b/c the guy kicks out at the last minute. Where everything about the biggest match on the show feels huge; even when it comes down to how close the ref is about to ending things. That was met last night. (Y)


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Brock on free tv? Seth Rollins discretion? Yeah I smell bullshit on that: but hey cant complain about Ziggler Bryan.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Oh my goodness they called back to the backslide spot for the third straight match! This match is terrific.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

HEADBUTTS
MOHAWK
BRYAN AND SHEAMUS MUST FEUD FOREVER


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

To me, that's the best match Bryan/Ziggler have ever had. I liked that even more than BR for sure. I hope Jheri watched that, see if he likes them working a totally different style match. I had it up on the WWE App so I saw what happened during the commercial break it definitely added to the match. Who cares if it was half the length of BR, it's about quality not quantity and that match brought the quality. 

:mark: Sheamus return! :mark: Sheamus new ridiculous look as a heel, that will get some heat that's for sure!

Edit: :lmao at the "YOU LOOK STUPID!" chants hahaha. See? Instant heat.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

40 minutes of this RAW have been nearly as entertaining as 2 hours worth of Wrestlemania was. What a start!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Forgot about Raw entirely. I cancelled my network sub but it doesn't kick in until 12 am so I might try to watch some of 2010 TLC before then. If I really push I can finish it.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Bryan/Ziggler was awesome, ****, better than anything on the Mania card.

Don't care for Sheamus returning, but :lmao at his new look. Hopefully they go with a four-way at ER and don't just have Barrett lose his rematch and then do Bryan/Sheamus singles feud for the PPV. No interest in seeing that feud. Not against them having a title match on Raw or SD though.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Yeah, Angle vs Brock found their niche once Angle was working babyface. I say it like that b/c even the Vengeance Triple Threat was great and Angle was already out of the heel mode by then. Then Brock became the beast again & SummerSlam took it to 11. I want to say the Ironman is killer too, but as it remains, still haven't gotten around to rewatching it. Someday I will. 60 minutes when it is amazing isn't 60 minutes. And I know that.
> 
> I wasn't surprised that Brock didn't use "more moves" in the sense, b/c that's just not how his matches are worked these days. He's not 2003 Brock anymore, he's the new legitimate monster Brock. So everything felt key to how he is today & efficient. Finishers are overused. That's WWE's thing. Especially at WM, but the good side of the multiple F-5's to me was that I legit thought it could be over any time Brock hit it. That was the cool side of such a dominating move. That & after what he did to Taker, you (_well, me, for the phrasing)_ REALLY were like _"omg he hit a third. He is gonna do it."_ Taking into account how some feel about Reigns kicking out isn't the point & anyone could have booed if they were pro-Brock. So I don't even acknowledge it like that. Best nearfall was the kick out of the two spears from Brock. Amazing stuff. The kind of thing I got flashbacks to the current red shoes ref in New Japan when he actually does a spin on those ULTRA close three counts b/c the guy kicks out at the last minute. Where everything about the biggest match on the show feels huge; even when it comes down to how close the ref is about to ending things. That was met last night. (Y)



Man, I know what you mean. That's actually my favorite part about Charles Robinson as a referee, NO ONE sells a near fall quite like little Naitch. He looks like he's getting blown by the hot blonde in Sales under the table while at a company dinner. That kind of shock/ecstasy, that's how I want my refs to sell a really good near fall. Red Shoes in NJPW surely does an amazing job of that, the one he does for Ibushi's kick out of the Bomba-yee (or however you spell it) knee in that WK 9 match with Nakamura is awesome.

I wasn't necessarily advocating Brock use more moves per say, more just throwing out an example of SOMETHING he could possibly do to protect his finish more. I know it's a lost cause to complain about overuse of finishers in WWE at this point, but still. It's a real slippery slope doing that, that's how you get that awful finish to Cena/Rusev last night. Cena has been using 3+ AA's to beat everyone in big matches for the past few years, now Rusev gets beat by 1? It isn't a good look for Rusev, and that's all because every big Cena match has had at minimum 1 AA kick out. I just want the F 5 to be special. Like, instead of having 3 of those near fall moments with Reigns using finishers, use something else for the first 2 near falls, THEN when Reigns is really beat down and Brock hits the F-5, we get a moment like at WM 25 when HBK kicks out of the tombstone and JR "has an out of body experience!". That only worked because no one was kicking out of the tombstone at that point. Now, Bray Wyatt is kicking out of tombstones. You can't have moments like that WM 25 moment if you try to do it EVERY big match. Just my .02, this is picking nits I really did enjoy Reigns/Lesnar.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Yeah Bryan/Ziggler was great, **** Sheamus' look :lmao

PLEASE give us Rollins/Brock tonight

Balor to answer Cena's challenge?


----------



## crazyrvd123 (Dec 17, 2007)

oops wrong thread.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Daniel Bryan vs. Dolph Ziggler: ******
Kingston/Big E/KALISTO/Sin Cara vs. Cesaro/Kidd/Conor/Victor: ****1/4*
Dean Ambrose vs. John Cena: ****3/4*
Brock Lesnar vs. Michael Cole: *******


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

So Kane/Show/Rollins vs Orton/Reigns/Taker

ROLLINS/TAKER INTERACTION??? cant specifically remember if Rollins/Taker locked in that Shield/Hell no and Bryan match. Ambrose got the 1 v 1 Taker match.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

WrestlingOracle said:


> So Kane/Show/Rollins vs Orton/Reigns/*Taker*
> 
> ROLLINS/TAKER INTERACTION??? cant specifically remember if Rollins/Taker locked in that Shield/Hell no and Bryan match. Ambrose got the 1 v 1 Taker match.


Don't tease like that.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Orton goes with Reigns and Ryback. Anyone else would be a huge shock. Haha. The wrestling on tonight's show has been fantastic.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Cant see it being Taker. The Ryback or Balor along with Reigns.

Don't know how to rate Ambrose/Cena, was quite sloppy but think they showed they could potentially have a great match. Saxton kinda killed it as well.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Don't tease like that.


Isn't it a 6 man? Taker wrestled the raw after Mania 28.... Everyone else of relevancy has been used unless a massive debut ala Zayn or Balor shows up. I highly doubt that.

edit: 29. sorry bout that.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

AXELMANIA

Imagine the pop if it was him :lol


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Damnit Ryback. Damnit. that is what happens when I get my hopes up.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

It's sad when the RAW AFTER Mania is ten times better than the RAW BEFORE Mania. 

Tonight's episode has proven three things:

1) WWE can book a fantastic show when they feel like it
2) Today's roster is loaded with talent and can go out there and kill it if given the chance 
3) Cena half-asses way too much. Seriously, the guy called that match from start to finish (as evident by his loud-ass voice) and it was a great match. Why can't we get this Cena more often?

I understand the whole point of "less is more" when it comes to booking RAW but imo there is a big difference between holding back to prevent blowing a load all over the place and just shooting blanks. Which is what the WWE does when they claim to be "not giving the fans everything so that when the moment happens it's more special yadda yadda yadda" It's just lazy writing cause they have the monopoly so they can get away with it. 

Oh and ratings:

Bryan/Ziggler ***3/4
Cena/Ambrose ***3/4

Both matches I rate equally tbh. Maybe Bryan/Ziggler will go up on a re-watch but Cena/Ambrose is definitely locked.


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

Jumping jesus jack o lanterns, why the hell do they insist on fucking with Ambrose's career so? The fact that he apparently had no involvement with Rollins tonight, despite going back on his promise of stopping him whenever he attempts to cash in, and the whole losing to Cena clean thing. Unbelievable. 

Don't get me started on the whole Lucha Dragons deal. I'll be starting a thread shortly.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I dont mind no gloating HHH, but no wyatt? no Taker? Sting not on raw yet Goldust and Rusev are? An ending with nothing after 3 years of pretty solid endings: 28 having that electric Brock return, 29 having the Ryback turn and 30 having that really dramatic HHH "title match" that ended up being the tipping point of Shield/HHH. Such a damn good first 2 hours or so, but fell really flat at the end there. Almost like Vince gave the book to someone else for the first half.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

My goodness tonight's show was LOADED with good wrestling.

Intercontinental Championship: Daniel Bryan vs. Dolph Ziggler - *** 1/2
Cesaro, Tyson Kidd, & The Ascension vs. New Day & Lucha Dragons - *** 1/4
United States Championship: John Cena vs. Dean Ambrose - *** 1/2
Naomi, AJ, & Paige vs. Natalya & The Bella Twins - ***

That Divas match was excellent. The crowd was into it too. Bryan/Ziggler was great as usual but I felt like their first encounter (Smackdown gauntlet) broke the mold and now they're seemingly doing a lot of the same things. They could sleepwalk their way to a great match together. 8-man was fun as shit and Cena/Ambrose was a joy.

I was pretty burnt out by the end of the 3rd hour so not having a big twist didn't bother me.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Surprised to see the love for Ambrose/Cena. Thought it was sloppy and had awkward transitions at times and Cena's loud spot-calling annoyed the hell out of me. It had it's fun moments I guess. 

Bryan vs Ziggler was good for what it was. Digging the fact that the Intercontinental title is getting so much attention right now. I marked for Sheamus returning and attacking Bryan and Ziggler. That Droz look he's sporting is gonna take a while to get used to though.

Lesnar. :mark: Rollins. :mark:

That is all.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Would go ***1/2 on Cena/Ambrose. Great stuff, shame Ambrose lost but at least he has the excuse of the ladder match last night. Just wish they would've played it up a bit after the match was over, potentially setting up a rematch when Ambrose is 100%.

The divas tag match was pretty good as well. The 8-man tag I just couldn't bring myself to care for, but that's mostly due to my lack of interest in the tag team division in general. The main event had the crowd being awesome despite being terrible, so it wasn't a total loss. Other than that, Rusev/Goldust and Sandow/Cody were both solid, although a bit underwhelming as neither really meant anything. I'm a bit confused as to why Mizdow is still acting as Miz, but then considering he's feuding with Miz, it works. Plus as long as he has Miz's theme, I'm cool with it.  Storyline has been excellent so far and hopefully they can keep it strong for a few more weeks through Extreme Rules.

Lesnar stuff can't be praised enough... it was awesome. The opening segment by Heyman and then the destruction at the beginning of the second hour was incredible. Lesnar destroying everything and everyone in site was incredible (except Heyman, which I did think for a second may happen :lol ). 

Crowd after Mania every year for the last several have been the best crowd of the year, such a shame we have to wait another 366 (1 extra thanks to fuckin' leap year) days for a crowd of this magnitude again.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

To the person who mentioned that the Cena/Rusev WM ending was cliche...yeah. I remember 90s house shows where the heel would bump into the manager on the apron. Certainly not worthy of a big WM moment.

However, I was listening to Alvarez, and he had a pretty funny theory on what he thought would happen. He said that he thought that Lana was wearing that fur scarf, because the ref would confuse it with throwing in the white towel.

He said after Lana threw her first shoe as a distraction, he thought she'd throw the second one, and then eventually throw the fur to try to distract. The ref would take that as throwing in the towel, and would call the bell for a Rusev submission.

That would've been funny on a fuckery level, and it also would have protected Rusev some, plus added to Rusev having a legitimate beef with Lana.

I wish the WWE thought of that, although I know that goes against the motive of Cena looking strong, so whatever...


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

I prefered Ambrose/Cena tonight tbh


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

LESNAR :mark: can someone get their own back on Steph? so sick of her shit. 

Ended up watching Great American Bash 1997 last night.

THE CARD



> Singles Match (Recommended, Meltzer: ***3/4)
> Ultimo Dragon defeats Psychosis (14:20)
> Tag Team Match
> Harlem Heat (Booker T & Stevie Ray) (w/Sister Sherri) defeat The Steiner Brothers (Rick Steiner & Scott Steiner) by DQ (12:02)
> ...


Pretty sure I fell asleep during the Harlem Heat/Steiners match. Combination of medication working, plus wasn't really enjoying it after seeing a great match in Ultimo Dragon/Psychosis. Need to get back to it though, if not just for the stellar main event.

Even if I stayed awake, I'm sure Konnan/Hugh Morrus would have just knocked me out.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Wow, Konnan and Bill DeMott have a ten minute match without commercial breaks. I'm sorry I'm going to need to see that. 

Benoit/Meng is awesome and the main event might be a top 50 WCW match so you should be good. Wait Hokuto/Madusa? That HAS to be good.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I have never seen Konnan vs Scott Hall from Fall Brawl '98 

Has anyone?


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

don't bother


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

They blasted the hell out of Reigns' music to try to cover the boos at WM, btw. Never noticed it so blantantly before. When the music began, my tv BLASTED, and I turned it down for the first time.

To the person who said that it seemed like Rock/HHH/Steph/Rousey were trying to kill time in order for it to get dark out, you were right.

Several times you could see them all talking to each other off microphone. It was very subtle, but if you pay close attention you will catch it. At one point HHH seems to be telling Rock to take his time.


----------



## Foreshadowed (Oct 4, 2006)

I haven't posted here in a while but I actually watched WrestleMania 31, first one I've watched throughout (besides the Divas match) since WrestleMania 28. I've not watched much WWE the past 18 months or so but I decided to check this out as despite some of the poor build-up, the card intrigued me.

*Overall Ratings:*

*IC Ladder Match* - ***
*Rollins/Orton* - ***1/2
*Sting/HHH* - ***
*Diva Tag* - Missed this, will try and catch it next time.
*Cena/Rusev* - **3/4
*Wyatt/Taker* - ***
*Lesnar/Reigns/(Rollins)* - ****1/4

4 solid-great matches, 1 good match and 1 incredible match to wrap up a really enjoyable WrestleMania event. 

I enjoyed Sting/HHH, which seems to be hit and miss but I was a fan of the overbooking and run-in's. I also liked the Wyatt/Undertaker match and the story that one told and it had an enthralling ending to the bout.

However, the Main Event was definitely my match of the night; Lesnar was a malicious beast, Reigns was the badass not giving up and trying to get under Lesnar's skin with his cocky grin every time he was able to endure the punishment Lesnar inflicted on him and Rollins was great as the opportunistic heel running in and getting the clean finish on an already beaten and battered Reigns. 

The pace of the match, the stiffness, the blood, the false finishes, I enjoyed it all! I actually like Reigns and don't understand the sudden heat he's getting from fans but there again, I haven't kept up with the product much in the last year and a half. To me, he's a good in-ring worker, isn't that awful on the mic and has the right look to be in the Main Event. Maybe that's just me though. This match definitely gave him some credibility though.

The match though was brilliant, the way Lesnar dominated, the way Reigns kept fighting back and nearly won it and the way Rollins cashed in, everything worked.

Great stuff.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Foreshadowed said:


> I haven't posted here in a while but I actually watched WrestleMania 31, first one I've watched throughout (besides the Divas match) since WrestleMania 28. I've not watched much WWE the past 18 months or so but I decided to check this out as despite some of the poor build-up, the card intrigued me.
> 
> *Overall Ratings:*
> 
> ...


I got use to seeing you in the fitba threads that I forgot you were a wrestling fan.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Once again, Brock is God. What a 48 spree for the fucking beast. :mark:


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

*WRESTLEMANIA THOUGHTS N THAT...*

I enjoyed the show. I think I'll usually enjoy Mania even if the match quality is bad, and the match quality on here wasn’t good bar one match, but it wasn’t terrible either and the show as a whole with the aesthetic and the huge feel was definitely something I enjoyed and probably always will. Anyway, thoughts on the matches...

Ladder match was nothing really and I’ve become immune to these things just like most people on here I’m sure. Bryan didn’t do anything. Daniel Bryan, the guy known as the best wrestler in the company and the most over guy in years, and they have him in a ladder match with 5 other guys, and he probably did the least in the match. Sorry but that really does bug me. So yeah, they all did some spots I guess. Only thing I remember is Ambrose taking that stupid bump through a ladder off a powerbomb. It wasn’t as retardedly dangerous and reckless as I thought it would be so there’s that. Oh and Ziggler running up the ladder is fucking awful. He always does it. It seems as though he’s thinking that it’ll impress the smarks who think people climb too slowly up ladders in these matches, but he doesn’t realise how equally bad what he’s doing is.

Bryan winning the IC belt doesn’t do anything for me, I was still kind of getting in to him winning and cheering him on and at least we might get some good matches but Bryan shouldn’t be near a midcard title right now. Maybe I’m being biased but I just think the guy is so above that at this point. The Cena win is fine because there’s nothing more he can do in the main event currently apart from face Reigns, and he’s at that point now where he might as well try to elevate other areas of the product. The Bryan win just feels like a ‘fuck you’ still, especially considering how useless that belt has been for so long.

Orton/Rollins was just an average tv match with a cool finish. Rollins is great but Orton is so done for me at this point. The guy could do absolutely nothing to excite me, I groan pretty much every time his music plays or whenever I see he has a match coming up or something. This was totally unmemorable and had no heat considering this was the one match people thought had a good build. It was all made meaningless because they just restled a normal match I’ve seen loads of times before. The finish at first looked stupid to me but on the replays I actually really liked it. I didn’t think this was bad and it was watchable thanks to Rollins but it was just so average.

Sting/Triple H was…something. The entrances were cool, well Sting’s was cool, Triple H’s was kind of so corny it was incredible. I was enjoying this before all the run in’s because it looked like Sting was in great shape and he looked cool as fuck in a WWE ring, it also looked like he could have had a decent match in him. Then all the shit happened and I couldn’t give less of a fuck about DX or the NOW and what happened here. ‘Nostalgic’ is a word I keep hearing thrown about at this but fuck that. The entire thing made no sense. Poor Sting. The guy was made to look like a doofus here after such a big deal being made about him. The whole thing became this lame WWE/WCW thing that Sting himself said had nothing to do with it, but then he’s teaming with NWO despite their history just because they’re WCW guys (but they aren’t really). This shit is so old and out of touch. I did mark for HBK. This thing he does now of not giving a fuck about anyone other than Triple H is amazing and I hope he does it in every Triple H match from this point on. I did still find it fun seeing Sting at Mania though, and until his paint almost came totally off and his bald spot was all I could look at, he definitely had a special aura going on and visually lived up to his hype.

The Divas match was good and definitely above average. Nicki Bella is awesome. I don’t really have anything else to say about it other than as a match I enjoyed it more than anything up to this point.

Cena/Rusev was a bunch of nothing. I don’t even know what to say. It was just boring and worse than their Fast Lane match. Rusev is awesome though and his entrance was awesome too.

Taker/Wyatt I actually enjoyed quite a bit. I hate the fact Bray is just another guy who’s lost to The Undertaker now though. I don’t see the point in making Taker seem like he’s losing his power and becoming more ‘human’ and especially after losing to Brock last year, and then having him beat a guy who’s supposed to be this supernatural monster. Taker looked good though and he looked like a lone gunslinger from a Spaghetti Western coming down to the ring. I thought this was exactly what it needed to be. I hate the fact the Tombstone has become just another finisher to be kicked out of at Mania now though. Wyatt didn’t do a whole lot but I enjoy him in the ring, although that stairs spot was probably the worst thing of the night. What are you even doing? The spider walk/sit up spot was cool as fuck and I actually thought Wyatt might get the win when he was about to dliver Sister Abigail again. I enjoyed this despite the outcome. Wyatt is now going to do nothing for ages again probably. This guy is the most wasted potential currently.

The main event was fucking outstanding and felt special in every way. This was so good it felt like it should and could have only happened at Wrestlemania. Brock is something else and is on another level to anything else in wrestling. When he’s doing this he’s the best guy in the world at his job. Every time his music hits for a match I know I’m going to get something out of the norm and something with the potential to be special. This absolutely delivered on that potential more than any other Brock match for me. From Reigns’ entrance on this felt like a huge deal. Reigns comes out looking like he’s about to fucking murder someone already and there’s already a big fight feel with a super hot crowd, Then Brock comes out and looks as hyped as I’ve ever seen him and I’m thinking ‘shit, this might be amazing’. And it was. I thought this was genuinely astonishing from the get go. Lesnar charging Reigns only to get cut open and Lesnar being infuriated that someone of Reigns level that he’s said he has no respect for could do that to him was the perfect start and I actually love Lesnar hitting the f5 out of the gate like that. This guy is not messing around and actually isn’t taking Reigns lightly anymore. This then turned in to everything it should have been and more. Lesnar dominating Reigns to the point of it almost being impossible to root against him. Reigns’ hope spots were amazing and he put in an awesome underdog performance. I loved him smirking while being taken out. Reminded me of something from a movie, actually it’s exactly like that scene in Fight Club with Durden being beaten to a pulp and laughing it off. The match was filled with amazing visual moments just like the Cena match at Extreme Rules was. Reigns offence he got in here though was better than anything from that match for me. He didn’t hold anything back. That sequence with Reigns on the apron delivering those sick blows only to get clobbered off with a nasty clothesline was incredible. The whole match was just scattered with cringe worthy shots. They genuinely battered eahcother, all the blood looked 100% hardway. Brock taking the gloves off and delivering those open hand slaps was another fantastic and brutal moment in a match full of them. The ring post shot was ridiculous but it was perfect. The blood really did add to this and made it feel even more special. The flurry of offence from Reigns was amazing and when Brock kicked out I lost it. I was sure that was the end and I was thinking that wouldn’t have been too bad. Brock was knocked loopy from the ring post with blood everywhere and Reigns hitting three Superman punches and two spears would have been a pretty believable finish to me, but at the same time I was thinking it would be amazing if Brock kicked out because I want this unbeatable aura to continue as long as Brock is doing this. Brocks selling by the way was out of this universe. This fucking guy. When the last f5 happened I was sure they were going to have Brock retain which I would have had mixed feelings on because on the one hand it keeps Brock going as this unstoppable monster because even the chosen guy couldn’t get it done, and on the other you’ve got Reigns being the one that they’ve gone with from the start and to not follow through could have been really bad. Then Rollins music hits and I freak out a bit. I was kind of unsure about it at first, it almost took me out of the match but then it happened and it worked and I marked out when the fucker won. Everyone looks good here. Reigns got the beating of his life, he didn’t win the belt but he looks seriously strong in almost beating Brock and taking two guys finishers to beat him on the most important night of his life after he wouldn’t give up. Brock looks unbeatable and Rollins escapes with his awesome heel character in tact with the belt like the sneaky bastard he is and It keeps the fans from feeling as though Reigns is being pushed even further down their throats. I think if the Lesnar/Reigns match had a proper finish between the two I may have liked this even more, but it’s hard to tell because I ended up liking what they did and it was probably the best way they could have done it without a Heyman turn. It was something genuinely surprising and unique in a Mania main event. I need to rewatch this to see what I really make of the last section of the match but right now I feel like this was one of the best Mania main events I’ve seen.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I re watched Brock/Reigns and Taker/Wyatt before Raw last night. Brock/Reigns still totally ruled, Brock has now worked 3 of the most unique matches of the past 6-7 years in the WWE. ER and SS vs Cena and now WM 31 vs Reigns. All were unique and felt really special, totally out of the ordinary. And he worked a 4th match, the one against Punk, that is IMO the best WWE match since 2005-2006. Brock is worth every penny that they pay him.

Taker/Wyatt was just okay. Nothing special or anything to write home about, just a standard, paint by the numbers Taker match. Wyatt needs to leave the Foley ring stairs bump to Mick and Taker, they are the only ones that can do it right it seems. I don't want to rate this match because it's too hard, I can't separate my love of Taker with what actually happened in the match.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Not sure about the last time I posted here. But I was at WM and the RAW after and both were fun as _fuck_. 

Only match from WM I would classify as "great" was Reigns vs. Brock, and I lost my shit when Seth's music hit. Show was consistent IMO and was really good throughout.

RAW after was a lot of fun, but the third hour really took the crowd out of it. Not sure what the point of Rusev even being on the show was. Six man was a main event for your average RAW in Minneapolis in October. I thought the atmosphere was great, but I fucking hate we are awesome chants.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Fair point about Randy & Seth not killing each other. I don't know why I didn't even notice this, when it was the first thing that irritated me about Orton/Cena at RR '14. I even thought to myself "Seth is gonna run like hell" before the match started, but then when he didn't, I didn't even think about it.

I guess you can go with the fact that Randy ALREADY destroyed the hell out of Seth, so now his mission was to frankly just show his superiority and hurt Seth's pride by taking the win. That's how the wrestling came off to me anyway, so in that context & with what happened with the beatdown being completed in the past, it made sense. I can totally see how it would annoy, though.

I agree with the comment someone made in another thread (or was it this thread?) that it was wrestled like an old-school 80s or early 90s IC title bout. That's why that poster liked it, and that's why I liked it. Just a good old-fashion rasslin' match, with some modernized stuff & counters. Kind of stood out from the rest in that regard, and was appreciated.

Did not like the kick-outs of the finishers, but that was a bad running theme all night.


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

LilOlMe said:


> Did not like the kick-outs of the finishers, but that was a bad running theme all night.


Same but mostly because it was the second fucking match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

:lmao This fucking Wrestlemania...I don't even know what to say about it. It's weird in the sense that individually, none of the matches are anything special (except the main event), but when you put it all together and consider the context heading in, this show was a fucking blast to watch and I've already watched it back twice since. Ladder match was nothing special although Ziggler's stupid ass hair will make me :lol for eternity. I'm glad Bryan didn't take too many bumps given his neck and I'm also glad that he won. Rollins/Orton was crisp, clean and that RKO at the end was spectacular. Trips as Terminator was so fucking corny that it instantly became awesome. I can't wait to see what crazy skull mask he's going to come out in next year already. Sting/HHH as a match was just fun as hell to watch. I knew it was going to get shat on but if you can't appreciate carny wrestling at its finest then that's your loss. This thing was a magnificent clusterfuck and I loved every second. Divas match was fine although I would have preferred the Bellas to win. RUSEV CRUSH with the second best entrance of the night. I expected more from this but it was still OK. Worth it for the Stone Cold CENATION Stunner alone. Rock/Rousey/Hunter/Steph just might have stole the show. Fucking Triple H selling the hip throw by flopping like a fish like he did for Bryan last year = GOAT. Any combination of these 4 and I'm flying to Dallas to see it. Taker and Wyatt (and Sting + HHH) NEEDED the darkness for their entrances to work. This really bugged me. Taker in the light is just weird. Anyway, as much as I appreciate Taker I really think it's time for him. This was OK if you could even call it that. Completely missable and all the big spots were predictable. Whatever. Brock/Reigns was MOTN by far and I wish I could give it more if not for the fact that it was literally suplex, F5, superman punch, suplex, F5, spear for the whole match. I'll be damned if it wasn't awesome to watch though. Brock Lesnar is something else. He's been completely rejuvenated and it's fantastic. ROLLINS. Wonderful ending to a highly entertaining Wrestlemania. WWE just punked us the fuck out and I ain't even mad. Well worth my $9.99.

*Ladder Match - ***1/2
Rollins/Orton - ***1/2
Trips Entrance - *****
Trips/Sting - ***1/2
Diva Tag - **
Cena/Rusev - **3/4
Taker/Bray - **3/4
Brock/Reigns - ****1/4*

Laid out like ^^^^ it doesn't look to be much but the vast majority of the matches were a lot more enjoyable than the stars I'm willing to give them, therefore making the overall Wrestlemania experience much better than the individual sum of its parts.


----------



## RATED R RULES (May 27, 2007)

I couldn't agree more with the Starbuck that star ratings don't do WM31 justice (plus Starbuck is way higher than me on them) but it was a bundle of fun . I could easily sit through it again and not skip a minute. Personally would say Cena/Rusev would be the thing I'd skip if I had to. I feel the same about WM30 even if I'm probably slightly higher on that show as a whole but stars don't do it justice either. 

Felt Cena v Ambrose and Ziggler v Bryan were both good last night and around the *** range but not as high on them as some seem. Nothing truly memorable. Great debut for NoFirstName Neville and the Dragons didn't botch anything so that's something! Just don't watch hour 3 of Raw if you haven't already. That Brock though. Big moment feel every time he walks out which makes him the #1 guy


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

Ladder match-***1/2
Orton/Rollins-***3/4
Sting/HHH-***3/4
Rusev/Cena-***1/4
Taker/Wyatt-***1/2+
Reigns/Lesnar-****

A lot of of very good stuff but nothing that reached all time classic level. And matches like Reigns/Lesnar and Sting/HHH really benefited from a spectacle feel more than anything else, the main event especially was probably the most entertaining finisher fest I've ever seen.

I actually really loved the taker match and wish it had gotten more time as I think with another 10 minutes or so it could've been MOTN. Taker looked like a completely different man compared to las year, much improved.

I'd say it was a great show more due to the sum of its parts with a lot of entertaining stuff but no real standout classic matches but lots of cool moments.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just watched Reigns/Lesnar again, RULED. Have no problems with people putting up that there as a better main event, only a couple I can think of that is better. Best thing from WWE since maybe Wyatt/Shield


Also watched Bret/Austin/Vader/Taker for the first time, pretty much perfection. 1997 was so strong up top


Edit: that was hyperbole forgot about :zayn3


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I don't usually care who goes over but Sting lost at Mania to HHH? What the [email protected]^!&*^@&*@#^!#&%[email protected]#$&@#([email protected]#$#!!!!!!


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Rewatched that Taker match with as objective as an eye as possible this time: and maybe it is the mass Taker fan in me but I still say screw the haters, that was a pretty decent match all things considered. Whether Taker slowing after that snake eyes countered into his "crossbody" spot was old age or selling, I liked that they played to the concussion of last year and felt it fit the "Taker isn't quite the same" narrative. Still really liked Taker's disoriented selling, albeit that crawling and grabbing Bray to get up after pretty simple offense was cheesy. In the sections where they did it, the two exchanged throwing hands well. For those saying "paint by numbers, boring same ol shit", while you may be right to a degree, consider that to my knowledge, Taker and Bray have LIKELY NEVER WORKED TOGETHER and allegedly during rehearsal, Bray injured himself. There had to have been a certain protection there. One could say the Edge/Taker counterfest was done cold, but at least Edge had a one hour match with Taker in Chile to "see what they had" at which Taker said "you Shawn and Bret"(can't believe Take would put Edge on that pedestal but I digress). The Tombstone kickout was hokey as it has been since 28, but all in all, I still think it is a not great and certainly unspectacular, but pretty good match. Some of you saying "it is time for Taker to go out". Well shit, pretty harsh to say when Taker physically looked his best since 08-09 and worked a decent match vs a guy he has likely never worked and a quite young man in the business who was injured. 

I must say though, that moment when Taker reacts to Bray kicking out of the tombstone, that facial expression was horrendous and it looked like something Abe Simpson would do. Had a good chuckle at that since I didnt catch it on live watch. Far cry from that Goat Michaels response. I also find it weird that the usual fire in Taker's offense wasn't there. Guy almost seemed bored like "shoot I'm 23 years the senior of this Wyatt fellow. Hell, I wrestled his dad"


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Wow, Konnan and Bill DeMott have a ten minute match without commercial breaks. I'm sorry I'm going to need to see that.
> 
> Benoit/Meng is awesome and the main event might be a top 50 WCW match so you should be good. Wait Hokuto/Madusa? That HAS to be good.


Konnan vs Morrus is so many rest holds of pure laziness. Watch if you must see the crap. And I liked all of the Hokuto vs Madusa matches. For what it is worth.

---------

Raw was fun times. Kalisto looked amazing like he should have & it generally had a nice flow. Well, minus 15 minutes wasted on that horrendous putrid display w/the broads. Hey it's a long match, why not do ANOTHER rest hold that shows you have no idea what you're doing Nikki? Good fucking christ. :lmao You dames are filler for a reason. Piss off. Worthless; all of you.

Brock killing people was great & needed. He's actually going to be off TV via an angle, rather than he's not gonna show up b/c he's Brock & a part-time attraction. Liked Cena vs Ambrose. That's what happens when a match has a story. Neville debut worked out super well in the short time; plus Axel is fun w/this jobber role. Glad Danielson owned Dolph. Match was nothing, but you know, sucking up to the crowd only to have them get beat up post-match works for me. And cements a Danielson championship win right off the bat. Sheamus was def my favorite part though. So overjoyed he's back. Got good heat & MOHAWK + braided beard stuff. He's back. Yay. Was always wondering how he'd do as a heel again after he showed everyone how excellent he is.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Yeah I'm so glad Sheamus is back heel


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yup, heel bastard Sheamus was long overdue. He's a great babyface (in the ring that is - as a character, he's Irish Cena so fuck that), but screw me, he can and seems to be an even better heel (ain't comparing his babyface work w/his 2009-11 heel run because Sheamus simply wasn't as good back then), so we'll see how far can this go. Heel Sheamus vs babyface Bryan, which we'll more than likely get at ER, sounds nifty.

And speaking of Extreme Rules, two matches have been spoilered for the card:


Spoiler: ER



Rollins/Orton and Cena/Rusev rematches


"OK could be worse" at one, "FUCKING URGH" at the other.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

:faint:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Omg. Indescribable. :lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

OH MY FUCKING GOD THEY DIDN'T :lmao


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Nah, that's not real :lol :lol



ATF said:


> Yup, heel bastard Sheamus was long overdue. He's a great babyface (in the ring that is - as a character, he's Irish Cena so fuck that), but screw me, he can and seems to be an even better heel (ain't comparing his babyface work w/his 2009-11 heel run because Sheamus simply wasn't as good back then), so we'll see how far can this go. Heel Sheamus vs babyface Bryan, which we'll more than likely get at ER, sounds nifty.
> 
> And speaking of Extreme Rules, two matches have been spoilered for the card:
> 
> ...


I think Rollins/Orton/Reigns will happen. I think after some type of fuckery, Orton will eat the pin. I don't see Cena/Rusev even though the rematch-clause is there, but it's strange they kept them distant on Raw. But where DOES Cena go from here? 

Needs to build up some sort of feud. I don't want him anywhere near Rusev unless it's Rusev going over.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I fully expect a Cena/Rusev rematch and it should be some type of gimmick match where Rusev doesn't have to get pinned to lose. Last Man Standing or a Cage match where Cena can escape to win? Either way it won't be hard for them to go all out and deliver their best matchup. I've been disappointed with the two others.

I hope they keep Reigns out of the title match for now because it's gonna get awkward if he's in it. Orton vs. Rollins has enough heat already to make for a good match and throwing Reigns in there would just register more boos. He can have his one-on-one at Payback (which pains me to say cause I'll be there )

I expect a 4-way for the IC Title at Extreme Rules. Bryan/Sheamus/Ziggler/Barrett obviously.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena in a cage? Cena in a Last Man Standing match?

It could be like the Bray stuff last year. NO. :CENA


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If the Bray stuff was the only example of bad Cena gimmick matches. Ask Dolph if he enjoyed that Cage match :lmao

Amazes me how in one hand Cena can have two of the best LMS matches ever against Batista and Umaga, and in the other, he has 3 insane(ly dumb) spotfests against Edge, Ryback and Wyatt which are both fun to watch... but that's the only value they hold. Nothing else from them is worth it.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

guys i need help

im like :nash levels of high, i need something to kick back and relax and watch/enjoy


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

@King Kenny Watch this:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't pick those non-fun Cena Last Man Standing matches vs Edge & Bray. That's for sure. (lol, that midget match is terrible too)

Or anything w/Konnan.

You're best served w/this:






this match sober is amazing. I can only imagine it high.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

that shit looks mad, but i won't be able to appreciate it as much as i should

i'm contemplating giving december to dismember my first viewing, unless you want to save_me with tna hilarity :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

We can do the TNA stuff later imo. 

But D2D will give you plenty :lmao


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

some events im considering watching right now



> WWF WrestleMania IX @ Caesars Palace in Las Vegas, Nevada, USA…4/4/93
> WWF Intercontinental Title: Tatanka (w/Sensational Sherri) vs. Shawn Michaels (w/Luna Vachon) (c) = ***1/2
> The Steiner Brothers (Rick Steiner & Scott Steiner) vs. The Headshrinkers (Fatu & Samu) (w/Afa) = **1/2
> Doink vs. Crush = *1/2
> ...


mainly for the IC title match, and bret/yoko



> WWF King Of The Ring 1993 @ Nutter Center in Dayton, Ohio, USA…6/13/93
> King Of The Ring 1993 First Round: Bret Hart vs. Razor Ramon = ***
> King Of The Ring 1993 First Round: Mr. Perfect vs. Mr. Hughes (w/Harvey Wippleman) = *1/4
> King Of The Ring 1993 First Round: Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Jim Duggan = 1/4*
> ...


this looks really enjoyable



> WWF WrestleMania X @ Madison Square Garden in New York City, New York, USA…3/20/94
> Owen Hart vs. Bret Hart = ****3/4
> Mixed Tag Team: Bam Bam Bigelow & Luna Vachon vs. Dink & Doink = *3/4
> Falls Count Anywhere 60 Second Count: Randy Savage vs. Crush (w/Mr. Fuji) = **3/4
> ...


bret/owen, razor/hbk



> WWF Royal Rumble 1995 @ The Sundome in Tampa, Florida, USA…1/22/95
> WWF Intercontinental Title: Jeff Jarrett (w/The Roadie) vs. Razor Ramon (c) = ***1/4
> The Undertaker (w/Paul Bearer) vs. Irwin R. Schyster (w/Ted DiBiase) = *1/4
> WWF World Heavyweight Title: Diesel (c) vs. Bret Hart = ****1/4
> ...


i dont hear this event talked about much, looks enjoyable based on his ratings



> WWF Survivor Series 1995 @ USAir Arena in Landover, Maryland, USA…11/19/95
> Survivor Series Eight Man Tag Team Elimination: The Body Donnas (Rad Radford, Skip, The 1-2-3 Kid & Tom Prichard) (w/Sunny & Ted DiBiase) vs. The Underdogs (Barry Horowitz, Bob Holly, Hakushi & Marty Jannetty) = ***3/4
> Survivor Series Eight Man Tag Team Elimination: Aja Kong, Bertha Faye, Lioness Asuka & Tomoko Watanabe (w/Harvey Wippleman) vs. Alundra Blayze, Chaparita Asari, Kyoko Inoue & Sakie Hasegawa = **3/4
> Goldust vs. Bam Bam Bigelow = *
> ...


why would goldust/bam bam be so bad?



> WWF In Your House 5: Season's Beatings @ Hershey Park Arena in Hershey, Pennsylvania, USA…12/17/95
> Marty Jannetty & Razor Ramon vs. Sid & The 1-2-3 Kid (w/Ted DiBiase) = *1/4
> Ahmed Johnson vs. Buddy Landel (w/Dean Douglas) = DUD
> Arkansas Hog Pen Match (Special Referee: Hillbilly Jim): Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. Henry O. Godwinn = *
> ...


i really want to see bret hart/british bulldog. i use to love watching the british bulldog


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Watch KoTR '93. That's what got me into wrestling.


----------



## tboneangle (Jan 14, 2009)

Any snowflakes from melter for mania yet?


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

^I think his ratings usually come out on Thursdays.



ATF said:


> And speaking of Extreme Rules, two matches have been spoilered for the card:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: ER
> ...


Could explain why Rollins & Orton approached this as a normal match. I assume they'll be having some kind of gimmick match at ER.

Steve Austin's WM review with Wade Keller:
http://podcastone.com/pg/jsp/program/episode.jsp?programID=542&pid=496368

Starts at around the 10:00 mark.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Observers are up on Wednesdays, who knows when though


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Meltzer is probably gonna give the Ladder match and Orton/Rollins four and a million stars, and about * to Taker/Wyatt because there weren't enough spots.

Truth be told: The Fatal 4-Way on the pre-show was better than more than half of the main card.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Raw was super fun and the most I've watched in ages without skipping. Enjoyed Bryan/Ziggler for what it was. Cena/Ambrose was good, Divas match was even good. Main event sucked, crowd totally killed it. Brock Lesnar though. BROCK LESNAR!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Meltzer gave Bryan/Reigns ****1/2? That means Brock/Reigns will probably get ****3/4-*****.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Caught NXT and the second half of Smackdown tonight. Another solid episode of NXT, although not star-rating heavy. Sami Zayn with a short but sweet promo that sets up a future rematch with Kevin Owens. Emma/Bayley was fine although the ending was too abrupt for my liking. Interesting feud though, and I'm interested in Emma's future. Blake/Murphy vs. Lucha Dragons was alright, but it's clear that the Lucha Dragons have no reason to be on NXT anymore. Jason Jordan vs. Tye Dillinger was shockingly fun. Jordan in particular has good looking offense. Main event 2/3 Falls match was pretty solid, although after the third fall, there was a slight lull period. The first two falls were done very well and both of the finishes occurred in surprising fashion. Itami's hulk-up is a pretty good way for him to differentiate himself from other wrestlers and his comeback was pretty cool. Ending was very surprising even though I read the spoilers. Once again, solid match and next week's show looks to be really good as it's the Wrestlemania weekend special.

Started watching Smackdown from the Cena/Rusev segment onwards. Decent segment with Rusev once again killing it on the mic. I'm really looking forward to Cena's new weekly open challenge. They'll probably run out of good challengers after a while, but fighting champions are always a good thing. I would love to see guys like Dallas, Axel, and Harper for instance getting a shot in these challenges. Good way for Cena to win matches while still putting guys over.

Ambrose/Harper was next and it was a good brawl worth watching. What I loved about it was the speed that both guys worked at. I don't necessarily mean that both guys wrestled at a super fast pace while foregoing long term selling. I mean that both guys were sprinting at each other and hitting each other with tons of momentum and velocity. Harper in particular hits a nasty looking big boot worth GIFing. Ambrose's strikes looked more snug than usual and he hit a cool version of a rebound clothesline to the outside. Ending of the match was perfect and I loved how intimidating Harper looked like when he stood over Ambrose and stared down the announcers, EMTs, and referees. ****-***1/4*

Watching Sheamus/Bryan at the moment and so far it's exactly what you expect from them which is a great thing. Sheamus cut the best promo I've ever heard from him prior to the match where he explains why he turned heel. It really looks like Sheamus is comfortable as a heel and he's enjoying himself. The man probably should have turned three years ago as he was never a good face. :lol The "you look stupid" chants are becoming a thing for Sheamus and he's doing a great job with feeding to those chants.

EDIT: Oh my fucking god, Sheamus just shouted "ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?". He might make me a fan soon enough.

EDIT #2 : HOLY SHIT BRYAN IS BLEEDING PROFUSELY. Great main event that sets up an interesting IC Title picture and put Sheamus over more than any of those awful wins he had as a face. Forgot to mention that Sheamus' new theme and entrance is badass. ****1/2*

Also forgot to talk about the Prime Time Players cutting a hilarious promo where they crushed The New Day. Smackdown looks to be a good episode judging from what I saw.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kenny, Royal Rumble 1995 is a p. AWESOME show, tbhayley.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

What happened to that Bryan/Ziggler vs. Sheamus/Barrett tag match that was supposed to be on Smackdown? I mean, I'm not complaining with another Sheamus/Bryan singles though.

There's more blood in this company!? :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wait, isn't tonight only Wed? I'm actually wanting to watch SD and was prepared for it tomorrow.

Losing track of time again. I'm ok w/this.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think they said that Ziggler was injured (kayfabe injury of course) so they made it into a singles match with Barrett commentating. Extreme Rules card looks to be pretty decent. Of course, a lot of it hinges on what gimmicks are attached to the matches, but I like that the feuds are already being built up right now instead of a couple weeks before the show.

Canada gets Smackdown on Wednesdays.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Forgot about those early leaks too, a la from Australia.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Anyone that likes Big Show is wrong.


Agreed. What a dope!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Show's trash talking is something I'm always going to want. Working them crowds.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Seeing that somebody gave Bam Bam-Tatanka/Kid-Holly ***3/4 (and a general "New Generation" era kick I've been on lately) made me want to watch it, probably for the first time since it happened. Man, was I pleasantly surprised. I think I'd agree with that rating, actually. Tag formula done to perfection, with the size difference adding to the Kid-and-Holly-as-underdogs story. I keep forgetting that Bob Holly was more than just a rookie-abusing asshole, and how downright godly Bam Bam could be. Really, _really_ liked this.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep, that tag is super duper swell. Triple B when he got to cut loose always killed it.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Big Show's trash talking is something I'm always going to want. Working them crowds.


I don't mind Show in a bodyguard role. Like Diesel for HBK. But in the ring? No more Show please.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd say Show's biggest worth today is in the ring. Not like he's got a character that we haven't seen him do before. Although he's a good promo. But when he's being the big nasty bastard in matches, I'm usually having a good time.

Subtle plug for everyone to watch Big Show vs Randy Orton from an early Main Event circa 2012. Those two almost never click, but that night Show was amazing and really brought out the best chemistry among the two.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Big Show's going through another one of his laziness phases that he goes through every other year. I don't think I've seen him refuse to bump to this degree before. It's especially bad in tag matches where he misses his cue constantly and waits a couple seconds before he is supposed to fall from the apron to the ground. The days of 7 foot 300-500 pound giants is dying, and Big Show and Kane's current run exemplifies exactly why. 

Brock Lesnar is the prototype of the "new monster", and while we will never see another Lesnar, hopefully we see more monsters that are monsters because of their freak athleticism rather than just their sheer size.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

b/c Dolph Ziggler does enough terrible bumps per event, nobody should even try.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> b/c Dolph Ziggler does enough terrible bumps per event, nobody should even try.


:lmao

This just made me picture Dolph Ziggler jumping and flailing around with his head bouncing off the mat.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Big Show is an awesome trash talker, and a good promo guy. In ring he can be fine as well, but that usually depends on his opponent.

Watched the Bryan/Sheamus match because I'm interested in seeing how good this was, and BNB on commentary is great usually anyway. First off, Sheamus' promo before the match I guess was okay, but I wonder if what he said is basically going to be his next several feuds, and if so does that mean we have to suffer through a Sheamus IC Title reign?  

Well, now we get to what Sheamus is actually good at, wrestling. As I suspected, Barrett on commentary was good, repeating a bit of what he said on Monday but also putting over Sheamus quite a bit. Match itself was average, but didn't quite get to that good-great level for me. I feel like they're saving it for when Sheamus and Bryan have their one on one PPV match, and it's a good plan not to blow their load in their first match, a non-title match on TV. It's worth a watch but not going to make a top 10 TV matches of the year or anything like that. 

I'm guessing we'll get Barrett vs. Bryan for the title on Raw or Smackdown next week based on Barrett's commentary (he basically said he's next in line, not Sheamus) and then Sheamus gets Bryan at ER. I was looking forward to a triple threat or four way between Barrett, Sheamus, Bryan, and Ziggler, but with the original tag match getting scraped I'm guessing they're just gonna go with a singles match for the PPV. In any event, looking forward to both Barrett vs. Bryan for the title and Bryan vs. Sheamus. Barrett and Bryan have had a number of great matches and for the title I think we'll see the very best out of them, and Bryan/Sheamus, while not as numerous in quality matches imo, have that awesome match from ER 2012 that shows what they can do (at least with the dynamic of Bryan being the heel and Sheamus being the face).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

All this Danielson vs Sheamus chatter prompts me to slam through some of their past matches later tonight. If only at least their Street Fight from RAW. Which I remember being filled w/:mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Blah, if you're gonna watch the best Bryan/Sheamus match, the first thing you watch is the 2/3 falls match. That's rule #1 . Street Fight is really good too, as is the forgotten great one from the MITB 2013 go-home show, but 2/3 FALLS IS THE FIRST THING YOU WATCH. _(And to think that was one of THREE ****+ matches that night is just scary.)_

Btw, the Big Show does something I absolutely WORSHIP in in-ring work: trash talking. He does it quite a bunch. And his bumps I find them to be on point more often than not. He has charisma, he has pretty solid mic skills... yeah, he's a fine hand. And I really respect him for his work quality and all he's accomplished. That being said, the fact that Vince always puts him in the upper midcard/Main Event scene and puts him over some younger guys who deserve the win much more is seriously irritating. His win at the BR against Sandow further added to that, don't give a fuck if he had never won one. He's lost them all, one more isn't gonna hurt. Shit like that only makes me dislike the guy further, and not in a "Heel heat" way, but in a "Get the fuck off my screen" way. And I don't even hate him or anything, they just make me feel completely mindboggled at that retarded booking. They did the same thing w/Kane who I marked out for a couple of years ago. But oh well. At least he had the Sheamus matches in 2012.

Wanted to ask this since it's been brought up here now as well: you guys dislike Ziggler's bumping because it's irrealistic or because it's just stupid (or both)? My thoughts on it: sometimes it gets overboard and quite annoying, but eh, I don't feel overly bothered by it most of the times. Yeah, I'm a guy that prefers logic, which should make me dislike Ziggler's selling, but I also understand pro-wrestling's over-the-topness and Ziggler's bumping is, if seriously broken, fun to watch, which in pro-wrestling is always a key element (now here come the Sting/HHH apologists calling me a hypocrite). Even if sometimes he no-sells in the long-term for the sake of that crap (which is just urgh).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Has Austin shared his thoughts on WM yet on his podcast? Same with J.R?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Brock said:


> Has Austin shared his thoughts on WM yet on his podcast? Same with J.R?


I cannot find it on his actual site, but here it is with Wade Keller.









ATF said:


> Wanted to ask this since it's been brought up here now as well: you guys dislike Ziggler's bumping because it's irrealistic or because it's just stupid (or both)? My thoughts on it: sometimes it gets overboard and quite annoying, but eh, I don't feel overly bothered by it most of the times. Yeah, I'm a guy that prefers logic, which should make me dislike Ziggler's selling, but I also understand pro-wrestling's over-the-topness and Ziggler's bumping is, if seriously broken, fun to watch, which in pro-wrestling is always a key element (now here come the Sting/HHH apologists calling me a hypocrite). Even if sometimes he no-sells in the long-term for the sake of that crap (which is just urgh).


Selling is Ziggler's bigger issue, not how he bumps. There's nothing wrong with his bumps in certain contexts. Bumping like he does off of a big move or offence from a monster adds to the spot. It's just that he "over does" the bump for every spot so it doesn't maintain its specialty. A clothesline from Sheamus and a shitty punch by Miz shouldn't twist you around your own axis at the same velocity.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks mate. Found it on his site: http://podcastone.com/Steve-Austin-Show-Clean. Think that's it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Austin's thoughts. This ought to be good.


----------



## Shaun_27 (Apr 12, 2011)

JR reviews WM31 with Melzter
http://podcastone.com/The-Ross-Report


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Meltzer's stars
Kidd/Cesaro vs New Day vs Matadores vs Usos - ***1/2
Battle Royal - ***1/4
Ladder Match - ****1/4
Orton/Rollins - ****
HHH/Sting - **1/2
Divas - **1/2
Cena/Rusev - ***1/2
Taker/Wyatt - **3/4
Lesnar/Reigns - ****1/2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He must have thought Kurt Angle was in every match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Meltzer


----------



## TomTom94 (Oct 18, 2013)

Meltzer's version of WM 31 sounds great. I wish I could watch his version of Wrestle-mania instead of what really happened. :lol 
seriously though his opinion is so different from ours. I honestly thought WM 31 was pretty shit until the main event. 

*ladder match:* pointless spotfest. positive was Daniel Bryan winning.

*randy orton vs seth rollins:* kicking out of finishers in a 12 minute match.......what?

*sting vs HHH:* holy fucking shit. terrible match. I should have known it was going to be bad once I saw hunter cosplaying as a terminator. 

*diva tag match:* don't give a shit.

*rusev vs cena:* don't give a shit.

*bray wyatt vs the undertaker:* meh. at least it was better than sting vs HHH :flabbynsting poor bray though. I feel like his career is dead.

*rock promo:* IT NEVER ENDS. STOP. PLEASE. also FUCK OFF STEPHANIE.

*main event: rocks cousin vs BORK LAZER:* very enjoyable match. So glad Brock is going to stay. I really want a "suplex city bitch" shirt haha. great moment for seth. he deserves it. hopefully they face each other at summerslam.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

I could understand those ratings from his live experience because it is easier to overrate but those were his rewatching on the network ratings


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

I enjoyed Mania though Meltzer clearly enjoyed it more.


Guys, Bryan vs Sheamus from Smackdown rocked my world. TV MOTY so far. Get a hold of it


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Orton/Rollins - ****
> Divas - **1/2


These two being so far apart is something else, quite honestly.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Meltzer's stars
> Kidd/Cesaro vs New Day vs Matadores vs Usos - ***1/2
> Battle Royal - ***1/4
> Ladder Match - ****1/4
> ...


Jesus fucking Christ in a shithat of cocaine flakes :lmao

Look, by no means am I one of those that likes to think Meltzer is the be all, end all of star ratings, and hell, nobody is to begin with (EXCEPT ME FOOKERS ), but these opinions really validate what I've come to expect out of the man. I told y'all the Ladder match and Orton/Rollins would get ****+, didn't I? I get the Ladder match in a way, but why Orton/Rollins? What the hell was so special about that pedestrian, surely technically well executed and enjoyable but still pedestrian as fuck TV match, can somebody tell me? BESIDES THE ENDING. Which was telegraphed the fuck out w/Orton not even making an effort to elevate his shoulders and pretend like he actually threw Rollins up instead of it being Rollins blatantly jumping off of him. I liked it, thought it was solid, but it was probably the biggest disappointment of the night by far.

Though I do have an argument for those who say it should've been a brawl - Orton already had his revenge over Rollins weeks ago. This was more about simply further adding to the humilliation. Still should've been far more heated, though.

Back on Dave, at least he had Lesnar/Reigns and Taker/Wyatt around the area I personally put them on. There we can agree. And the Fatal 4-Way too.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Mad Money Meltzer has lost his mind, although I do understand most of the ratings. I have that Ladder match at like **3/4 because I am *fucking sick of multi-man ladder matches*, but if you're not, I can see how you would enjoy it. Orton/Rollins however, was basically a good RAW main event with a different finish. The finish was cool, but if you go through time and compare that Orton/Rollins match to other **** matches of similar length, you'll see it comes up extremely short. Rusev/Cena was also massively overrated.

But hey, what else can you expect from the man who gave Ibushi/Naito from the New Japan Cup ****1/2? I think his expectations were just lowered by all the awful TV into the leadup, and he really loved the whole show because his waifu was involved in a big angle. At least he realised how awful Sting/HHH was on TV.

*Edit*: You know, I think Meltzer is just a geek that really loves wrestling. This is obvious, but you have to take into account that he never attends WrestleMania live, and I doubt he even gets to attend that many events live because he's so busy watching and writing about wrestling. It's not surprising that he's massively overrating everything when he got to see it all live. I mean, look at that PWG show he attended where he basically rated every single match ****+. I'm sure it was good, but was it really *that* good?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I didn't like the ladder match at Mania but if TLC II and III are going to get ****1/4+ then I don't see why this one wouldn't.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Spotfest ladder matches are the best gimmick matches ever.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

That's because the Midget on a Pole match hasn't been invented yet.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I didn't like the ladder match at Mania but if TLC II and III are going to get ****1/4+ then I don't see why this one wouldn't.



I'm not really big on ladder matches either tbh. There are only a handful or so I'm a big fan of:

Jericho/Benoit RR 01' (best ladder match ever iMO)
Steen/Generico SteenWolf (99.9% as good as Benoit/Jericho)
Morrison/Sheamus TLC 10' 
HBK/Razor SS 95' (far superior to the WM X match iMO)
TLC I SS 00' (because it was the first of its kind and blew my mind on first watch)
MitB I WM 21 (same as above)
Taker/Jeff Hardy Raw 02'

That's pretty much it as far as ladder matches I really really enjoy. There have been other good/great ones I guess but they just don't really do much for me. Those 7 matches are the pinnacle of the Ladder gimmick, I wish they would put ladders to rest for a few years and make them special again.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Spotfest ladder matches are the best gimmick matches ever.


If by best you mean worst then I totally agree. HiaC pre-2008 is the king of the gimmick matches, mainly because of Undertaker and his incredible run as the HiaC Deity. After that, eh, even though we've seen a ton of really, really bad ones, to me it's still really hard to beat a good old fashioned cage match done right. Backlund/Hansen, Magnum/Tully, Steamboat/Youngblood vs Slaughter/Kernodle, Hardy/Edge, HHH/Flair, Jacobs/Whitmer, and Punk/Hardy are just unbelievably awesome matches that you can watch 10 times and never get sick of.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> All this Danielson vs Sheamus chatter prompts me to slam through some of their past matches later tonight. If only at least their Street Fight from RAW. Which I remember being filled w/:mark:


When was this? I can't remember. 

LOVED the 2 out of 3 falls match though.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> When was this? I can't remember.
> 
> LOVED the 2 out of 3 falls match though.




Hey look who uploaded that!


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

30th July 2012. Raw 1001.

http://www.cagematch.net/?id=1&nr=82953

edit: well nevermind then


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Honestly, Sheamus/Bryan was certainly the most fun non-Lesnar match for me (havent seen Balor/Owens yet) and one of the more solid non-NXT wwe contests so far this year. Loved Sheamus' new cocky demeanor soaking the heat in and goading the crowd with that Raven esque pose while making the Gladiator reference with the shouting of "are you not entertained" after dropping Bryan on his neck. Really enjoyed btw the attack of Bryan's neck being the center of the story and eventually pissing off Bryan enough to stiff Sheamus pretty good. Was the blood a little hokey from the floor spot? yeah, but it gave even more creedence to Sheamus as a contender and the finish gave BNB an angle to jump in. Liked Barrett on commentary: put over both men including Bryan as good competitors several times, but ultimately ensured to put himself over as better than the two. I can certainly get behind this Sheamus.

Tell you what, if this staple of Barrett, Bryan, Harper, Cena mixing in, this version of Sheamus, Ziggler with Ambrose popping in and maybe if he gets built enough a guy like Adrian Neville or a called up Sami, I really like this Sheamus or a nearing old form Bryan to take the WWE WOTY crown now that Rollins looks to be in workman's hell after he gets done with Orton (outside of Cena intervals since Cena and Rollins have shown they can have good chemistry) and has to feud with the likes of Ryback, maybe the washed up Jericho whenever he pops in and Reigns until Brock returns at Summerslam while teaming endlessly with Kane and this unmotivated Show.

edit: Reports say Sheamus is catching shit for being "wreckless" with Bryan. All I saw that was wreckless was perhaps that swinging neckbreaker variant. I hope somebody doesn't make a hissy fit and make Sheamus revert to the babyface moveset. Again, I dig this new Sheamus.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Thanks guys. No idea how I missed this!

I wonder if the match with Reigns will be on the Bryan set coming out in June. Probably. You have to make Roman look really strong. :vince5


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

I thought it was confirmed to be on there already?

http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/full-content-wwe-daniel-bryan-just-say-yes-dvd-blu-ray/83199/

Yep.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah I remember we had a discussion about that match again a couple weeks ago. Cjack ended up rewatching it and that was the end of that.

God bless Meng. He and Barbarian were somehow able to get a good match out of Public Enemy in 1996. 9/9/96 is the date. Going through these episodes of WCW in their prime are fun, but I do have a question about the nWo now that I'm watching them in a weekly setting:

How the hell did people consider them "hip"? :lmao They behaved like old people that try too hard to be like young people.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

They were more hip than people that had mullets in 1996 aka a huge portion of wrestlers and the wrestling audience.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i'm watching wwe ppvs from 2001


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> How the hell did people consider them "hip"? :lmao They behaved like old people that try too hard to be like young people.


They'll look 21 the next time you watch a 2006 DX skit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I didn't like the ladder match at Mania but if TLC II and III are going to get ****1/4+ then I don't see why this one wouldn't.


Not enough madness.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I didn't like the ladder match at Mania but if TLC II and III are going to get ****1/4+ then I don't see why this one wouldn't.


Those were like the Molotov Cocktail Berzerkers in Far Cry 3: they were just fucking insane. In comparision, the WM 31 version was like Mortal Kombat in the SNES: graphically superior but much tamer in content.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watched Sheamus Vs Bryan last night from SD. Yeah, pretty darn awesome. TV MOTY for me, though I've barely kept up with TV matches and shit. In fact it's probably my #2 MOTY for WWE so far behind Lesnar/Reigns :lmao.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Yeah1993 said:


> That's because the Midget on a Pole match hasn't been invented yet.


I was so sure this had happened with KeMonito/Alushe in CMLL. Ah, well. Close enough



> At one point Pierroth, Jr.'s group Los Boricuas kidnapped Alushe and in a comedic segment threatened to boil him in a giant pot and eat him if Tinieblas and Tinieblas, Jr. did not agree to their terms. Instead of boiling him, realizing he would probably not smell or taste good, Pierroth offered Alushe women, candy and money to join his team as long as he swore allegiance to Puerto Rico. He took the offer and for a short while joined Los Boricuas, wearing Puerto Rican inspired clothes as he helped the rudo team cheat. The storyline did not last long as Alushe was back by Tinieblas side with no explanation a short while later.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watched the Gauntlet thingy from Smackdown a few weeks ago. Most of it was shit, but go out of your way to see Danielson & Harper bloody kill each other for 7 minutes. Packed a good bunch of neat moments in the duration. 7 minutes of enjoyment for 22 total; I've done worse w/WWE.

Oh, and the go home Smackdown 8 man tag is fun times too. Those are the highlights en route to WM.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I suspected you'd like the Ambrose/Harper bit too. Don't remember anything wrong w/it myself.

Anyway, I did catch Bryan/Sheamus on SD this week, and yes, it was pretty cool. Sheamus was completely rejuvenated in this heel role, and he and Bryan just beat the holy shit out of each other, totally stiffing one another like if they legit hated each other - and I'm not even a "stiff = OMGTHISRULES" guy, especially if it's stiff just for the sake of it. Sheamus' moments of arrogant trash talking were just :mark:. The only complaint I have is that Sheamus' control segment felt a little bit odd to me. Perhaps that just has to do w/seeing Sheamus work as a heel for the first time in YEARS, let alone one as aggressive as he was. Ending was the best use of the count-out stip in a looong time. I like to joke about how BRYAN AND SHEAMUS MUST FEUD FOREVAH~, but at least their chemistry in there is absolutely stunning so that makes up for it.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Sheamus' control segment was excellent, I thought. I didn't quite like Bryan in the early portions of the match, but he turned it up for his comeback (especially the elbows spot on the ring apron).


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Even with a one month lag, Bryan has already surpassed the rest of the world as wrestler of the year.

:lmao At Rah's post. Is CMLL normally that wacky?

EDIT: There is no stupider rule in wrestling than the DQ for throwing someone over the top rope. I just watched a Nitro where Dean Malenko got disqualified for a backdrop where Ultimo Dragon fell over the top rope. On that same episode, Chris Jericho and Johnny Grunge attacked each other with chairs and tables in a regular match and didn't even get a warning.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal hurry up and post the revision for Brock vs Reigns, plz. Need to know that final score.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Bryan said in an interview that he pitched the idea of an interpromotional (is that a word? ) dream match between himself and Nakamura when WWE goes on their Japan trip this month. He said he didn't think anyone bought the idea. 

If only it was 25 years ago...


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Bryan said in an interview that he pitched the idea of an interpromotional (is that a word? ) dream match between himself and Nakamura when WWE goes on their Japan trip this month. He said he didn't think anyone bought the idea.
> 
> If only it was 25 years ago...


Nakamura even answered him:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/584025139706073089
I want this so much now.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Someone from WWE needs to make this happen.

IC Champ vs. IC Champ!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Son of a bitch. I'll be a mark for that.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Not getting the immense Bryan/Sheamus love from SD. It's an okay match but probably my least favorite match between the two and hell, didn't even think it was even the best match of the night (thanks to Ambrose/Harper), let alone TV MOTY. Less power to me, I guess. :shrug:

Not really caring too much about Extreme Rules. The inevitable Mizdow/Miz match is probably what I'm looking forward to the most, although not because I think it'll be a great match, but just because of excellent the storytelling and feud has been so far. Bryan vs. either Barrett, Sheamus, or both for the IC Title also has my interest. I'm not interested at all in Orton/Rollins or a triple threat between them and Reigns. If THA BIG GUY is thrown into the match though, color me intrigued. Cena/Rusev don't seem to have the greatest chemistry IMO, although maybe adding a stip to their match will change that outlook. In any event, don't care about that either. 

Not sure what else is on the table for ER. I guess a tag title match between Cesaro and Kidd, The New Day and/or the Lucha dragons (is that what they're called)? Also probably a divas title match between Nikki and Naomi. I suppose that should round out the ER card just fine. Not really all that excited by that, but maybe WWE will surprise me.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Best AJ matches? Besides the ones with Punk when the lights go out. :curry2


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

She had that match with Natalya on Main Event. And umm. Err.

Uhhhhh.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think I liked that match with Kaitlyn at Payback 2013 more than any other main roster women's match except for Mickie/Trish WM 22.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Miz/Mizdow is gonna be a nothing match with a nothing build. Don't get me wrong it's gonna be a hell of a lot of fun and the crowd will pop for it (cuz it's Mizdow duh!) but I don't think anything is going to come out of it when it's all said and done. 

AJ's best WWE match (probably best match ever) is her Payback 2013 match with Kaitlyn. Shit, it's one of the best women's matches in WWE history if you ask me. 

Watching Ambrose/Harper now. I'm not a fan of Ambrose's punch, chop thing. Looks weak and his opponent no sells the hell out of it. 

And let me get all my shit it in in this one post. Does anyone where in the fuck I can find Rock n Roll Express vs Heavenly Bodies Loser Leaves Town cage match? Seriously, not even a fan cam?

EDIT: Prime Time Players randomly put back together to be thrown in a random feud with New Day :lmao This fucking company :lmao

Sheamus may look like a dumbass but I'm digging his new theme. And boy does he know how to own his stupid look. Fucking A mic work. I suddenly have interest in a Bryan/Sheamus feud that's not solely based on match quality but entertainment value as well.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

sharkboy22 said:


> Miz/Mizdow is gonna be a nothing match with a nothing build. Don't get me wrong it's gonna be a hell of a lot of fun and the crowd will pop for it (cuz it's Mizdow duh!) but I don't think anything is going to come out of it when it's all said and done.


Can't really say it's a nothing build with the fact it's a build that's created not only one of the most over guys in the company, but has actually also gotten Miz the most heat he's gotten since being in the main event. It's been very well built to this point, the best of pretty much any feud in WWE except Lesnar/Rollins. If you mean specifically the next few weeks with them opposing each other, that's entirely dependent on WWE and if they're going to give these two time on the mic to tell a story prior to the match. Admittedly I can understand why you think it won't be much of anything with WWE's track record on mid-card feuds, but we do have three more Raws, three more Smackdowns, and three more Main Events (if they choose to use that platform for something meaningful), 9 shows in total, to put all the pieces together for this.

Match is probably going to suck, and you're right that it probably won't lead to anything changing. Win or lose, Sandow will probably go back to being an irrelevant jobber within a few months when WWE (once again) strip everything away and keep him from having any chance of staying over and Miz... hell, Miz may join him. He's no stranger to that spot either. All that being said though, it's why I'm trying to enjoy the journey of this thing and looking forward to the match between the two, despite the fact I have very low expectations for the match itself, unless the chemistry they displayed as a team/unit can somehow be transferred to when they're opposing each other. 



And on AJ's best match, I agree with it being vs. Kaitlyn at PB 2013. That whole PPV is a blast to watch, and still my second favorite PPV of that year by a decent margin. The match itself is probably the best diva's match on WWE TV (not counting NXT) in the last decade (since Trish/Micki WM22 as funnyfaces said). But on AJ, a shame to hear she's gone but from what I've seen in NXT, and WWE finally "giving diva's a chance," I think we'll be just fine. Nikki is actually a pretty good worker (improved a ton from even just a year ago), Brie is too, Paige is really good, Natalya... and that's four of them and not one NXT girl mention yet.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Hey guys I know I haven't been here for a while, but I was hoping you guys could check out my WM 31 review! Up until Mania I hadn't watched any WWE outside of the rumble since Summerslam so if you want an inside to what Mania was like to someone who had NO idea what was going on, this is it! 

Easing back into the product and wrestling in general again, so hopefully I'll be in here more. 

http://prowrestlingpalace.blogspot.com/2015/04/wrestlemania-31review-by-ben-smith-yes.html


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Fuck. Now I'm left dreaming about a Nakamura/Bryan match that has a 1% chance at best of happening. WWE never does anything cool like that anymore. And goddamn, I said Bryan/Brock is my ultimate, still possible dream match. I'm not so sure (Vince McMahon copright) that Nakamura/Bryan might be an even bigger dream match for me. I've only been watching Nakamura for about a year now (thankfully I have caught up on maybe 65-70% of the greatness I had missed) but he's already become one of my go to guys when I need something GREAT to watch. He has everything you could possibly want in a pro wrestler, every time I watch him I am never disappointed. He brings it each time he steps through the ropes, and his entrance is one of the few I simply HAVE to watch and will never, ever skip. It gets me so pumped to watch him, couldn't be any more perfect.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

At least we got Nakamura vs Steen. That's been the most absolute fun match I can recall getting in wrestling per a dream match scenario. I've watched it like six times since last year.


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

sharkboy22 said:


> Watching Ambrose/Harper now. I'm not a fan of Ambrose's punch, chop thing. Looks weak and his opponent no sells the hell out of it.


I just find it insulting to Tenryu.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

BREEaments03 said:


> I just find it insulting to Tenryu.


Tenryu is hardly the first or only wrestler to do that.

Plus, this is pro wrestling, everyone steals shit from everyone else. You can't do only 100% original moves. The RKO isn't an insult to DDP. Samoa Joe used to always do the Kawada kicks, that's hardly an insult to Kawada.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Probs INSULTING b/c Ambrose isn't surly enough to pull it off.

Cal gonna enjoy a random Tenryu plug.


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Tenryu is hardly the first or only wrestler to do that.


I'm sure but he's probably the most famous for it and who I thought of first. I know Samoa Joe did that spot a bit to in ROH.



> Probs INSULTING b/c Ambrose isn't surly enough to pull it off.


This. But I think all of his offense looks absolutely ridiculous.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I was being facetious, but then again, assumed it was the key b/c Ambrose isn't a hoss. Candice LaRae doing it is 10x worse. Even if it is pronounced as Super Dragon's Violence Party.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> And goddamn, I said Bryan/Brock is my ultimate, still possible dream match.


I could see this happening. Maybe at Rumble next year or something. Brock still needs to face Bryan, Orton and Rock at least IMHO. So lets say Brock v Orton at Summerslam. Maybe Brock v Bryan at Rumble and Brock v Rock at Mania? But I have a feeling we will get Rock v HHH at some point. Maybe at the Hell in a Cell PPV (in LA) or Summerslam? 

Looks like Bryan will be out of the main event scene for a bit though. Sadly really. Gotta make Roman look really strong though.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Probs INSULTING b/c Ambrose isn't surly enough to pull it off.
> 
> Cal gonna enjoy a random Tenryu plug.


To be fair, it's really hard to come off as surly unless you're an older guy, I'm talking 15+ years in the business and 40 years or older. I'm not sure anyone has ever been as surly as Tenryu. Kawada came damn close, and it's no surprise since he was a Tenryu disciple, but if you look up "salty bastard" in the dictionary I'm sure there is a picture of Tenryu to be found, probably right next to the photo of Stan Hansen. Speaking of, I watched a Tenryu/Jumbo match from I want to say, 88'? Yea I think it was 88' but it could of been 89', anyway it was sublime and pretty much everyone should see it at some point. It's on YouTube.

Suzuki is carrying on the tradition of "surly old Japanese guy you sure as shit never want to piss off" in the ring admirably. I'm a recent convert to that bat shit crazy ass kicker, but man do I appreciate his work. The cliche of "no wasted motion" that gets thrown around WAY too much (seriously I heard someone describe Edge this way once and that just about did it for me) is most applicable to Suzuki. If you watch his masterpiece with Styles from last years G1, they never even had a pinfall attempt until the final 1-2-3. Might sound strange but that match really reminded me of Austin/Hart WM 13, besides the finish of course. Both guys were technically heels coming in, but of course Suzuki had more support this being Japan and all. By the end though AJ was getting some serious baby face cheers because Suzuki is that damn good, and just the entire feel and pace of the match was giving me flashbacks of that WM 13 bout. Fun stuff.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I could see this happening. Maybe at Rumble next year or something. Brock still needs to face Bryan, Orton and Rock at least IMHO. So lets say Brock v Orton at Summerslam. Maybe Brock v Bryan at Rumble and Brock v Rock at Mania? But I have a feeling we will get Rock v HHH at some point. Maybe at the Hell in a Cell PPV (in LA) or Summerslam?
> 
> Looks like Bryan will be out of the main event scene for a bit though. Sadly really. Gotta make Roman look really strong though.


Well, since Brock is a face now I doubt we'd get 3 face/face matches in a row haha


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Does Punk/Lesnar still hold up amongst everyone? 

I just watched it again and my opinions haven't changed in the slightest, still an amazing match and one (if not the best) of the best SS matches of all time.


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Does Punk/Lesnar still hold up amongst everyone?
> 
> I just watched it again and my opinions haven't changed in the slightest, still an amazing match and one (if not the best) of the best SS matches of all time.


Fuck yes. I've watched at least 10 times. Ironically, I don't give it 5*. It's just fantastic though.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> To be fair, it's really hard to come off as surly unless you're an older guy, I'm talking 15+ years in the business and 40 years or older. I'm not sure anyone has ever been as surly as Tenryu. Kawada came damn close, and it's no surprise since he was a Tenryu disciple, but if you look up "salty bastard" in the dictionary I'm sure there is a picture of Tenryu to be found, probably right next to the photo of Stan Hansen. Speaking of, I watched a Tenryu/Jumbo match from I want to say, 88'? Yea I think it was 88' but it could of been 89', anyway it was sublime and pretty much everyone should see it at some point. It's on YouTube.


They had a 5* match on 6/5/89 that was incredible (another match I've watched 10+ times). Had quite a story behind it. They also had a great match in October of 88. So hard to know which one you're talking about. Both worth watching though.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Well, since Brock is a face now I doubt we'd get 3 face/face matches in a row haha


Is he a face though really? I mean he has always got pops since he has come back. Even when feuding with Punk and Taker. Brock is with Heyman and why waste the best manager of all time on a face? Brock is a classic tweener really. The lines are incredibly blurred with Brock right now. As far as Brock facing a heel not really sure who that would be. Rollins I guess. After that though who? Maybe Owens sometime in 2016? If they build up Wyatt more I'd LOVE that but I don't see that happening.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The punch/chop combo is almost certainly a Tenryu invention. I like that Ambrose does it, though. Just sucks when it's treated like a single punch or something:

https://twitter.com/SenorLARIATO/status/582321125570572288


----------



## BREEaments03 (Sep 5, 2014)

Kind of funny everybody mentions Owens vs Brock. After Owens' match vs Zayn, I thought "put this fucker against Lesnar". I guess everybody else thought the same. Tbh though, I've cooled on this idea since I think Bryan is a more realistic opponent for Lesnar. Owens vs Lesnar just doesn't look right, which it's wrestling so who gives a fuck but meh. I'd love to see it to see how it'd turn out though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> To be fair, it's really hard to come off as surly unless you're an older guy, I'm talking 15+ years in the business and 40 years or older. I'm not sure anyone has ever been as surly as Tenryu. Kawada came damn close, and it's no surprise since he was a Tenryu disciple, but if you look up "salty bastard" in the dictionary I'm sure there is a picture of Tenryu to be found, probably right next to the photo of Stan Hansen. Speaking of, I watched a Tenryu/Jumbo match from I want to say, 88'? Yea I think it was 88' but it could of been 89', anyway it was sublime and pretty much everyone should see it at some point. It's on YouTube.
> 
> Suzuki is carrying on the tradition of "surly old Japanese guy you sure as shit never want to piss off" in the ring admirably. I'm a recent convert to that bat shit crazy ass kicker, but man do I appreciate his work. The cliche of "no wasted motion" that gets thrown around WAY too much (seriously I heard someone describe Edge this way once and that just about did it for me) is most applicable to Suzuki. If you watch his masterpiece with Styles from last years G1, they never even had a pinfall attempt until the final 1-2-3. Might sound strange but that match really reminded me of Austin/Hart WM 13, besides the finish of course. Both guys were technically heels coming in, but of course Suzuki had more support this being Japan and all. By the end though AJ was getting some serious baby face cheers because Suzuki is that damn good, and just the entire feel and pace of the match was giving me flashbacks of that WM 13 bout. Fun stuff.


Surly is more of a form, than I say a set thing b/c so many Japanese vets have progressed that way. Tenryu was surly just about all throughout his career, for an example. Kawada too. Face of ICE. Then he'd do HUSTLE. :hmm: Grumpy Misawa was always fun. That was his charm in the latter set of his career when his peak wasn't quite there. Kobashi felt like the only one who never became surly. He was too nice; pardon bell to bell when he's split chests. Yuji Nagata had the best look on his face in this tag I watched tonight w/some Young Lions, after one of the kids shoved him off the apron. He proceeded to kick him really fecking hard, immediately after.

MiSu is a big chief in that department. Still need to see the GHC Championship match vs Marufuji and hope he just absolutely stretches him apart. Suzuki-gun: filled w/surly individuals, cheeky juniors, & Shelton Benjamin. Only in Japan.



MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Does Punk/Lesnar still hold up amongst everyone?
> 
> I just watched it again and my opinions haven't changed in the slightest, still an amazing match and one (if not the best) of the best SS matches of all time.


P. sad I said "I can't remember something that good in dream match form" when bringing up Nakamura vs Steen, then this match happened less than a year before it. It'll always be incredibly special to me. I've exhausted all words for it.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Does Punk/Lesnar still hold up amongst everyone?


Without question. Watched Taker/Punk and Brock/Punk both today. Just incredible.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Surly this surly that and nobody mentions Takayama.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Blame...society. And not me.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> To be fair, it's really hard to come off as surly unless you're an older guy, I'm talking 15+ years in the business and 40 years or older. I'm not sure anyone has ever been as surly as Tenryu. Kawada came damn close, and it's no surprise since he was a Tenryu disciple, but if you look up "salty bastard" in the dictionary I'm sure there is a picture of Tenryu to be found, probably right next to the photo of Stan Hansen.


No doubt Stan can be quite a rough bastard, but at least when it is time for the babyface comeback or when sections of the story call for it, Hansen can sell his ass off ala that cage match I sent ya, and at least even if it is just the famous Hansen headshake, at least Hansen usually registers legit shots (albeit when you work guys like mean ass Carlos Calon or a man the size of say Andre or Vader yeah you better register mister), but at least Hansen would take good care of ya to get the crowd going since Hansen knew the public enemy value his big ass would bring to a promotion and Hansen understood the frame structure of matches and importance of selling. Not to mention, being the salty guy was a huge part of his character.

Now in terms of saltiest bastard just because: boy when Misawa got old and developed that gut while losing a step physically around the mid 2000s mark going into the late 2000s when puro looked to start changing the guard, Misawa looked pissed off 3/4 of the time, would seem to wake himself up from gassing by irish whipping a guy in the corner and obliterating him with some variation of a stiff elbow/forearm for no reason; the guy in his late years was too grumpy to register strikes, let alone sell them, and instead of wrestling with that trademark Misawa priming for the comeback fire and will, went through stiff as hell motions. Heck, Misawa's eyes even looked grumpy when he got old. Wouldn't even register alot of pin attempt failures with disbelief. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Misawa was so salty he NEVER sold, I'm just saying the manner in which old man Misawa wrestled makes him a serious candidate, and was worlds differrent in small yet noticible things from say 1994 Misawa. I don't think that was all stemming from "the headrop" era of the late 90s either, for Misawa wrestled like classic Misawa until around 04 I noticed the big change in demeanor start, I think the guy just got drained finally and as a result grumpy.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Cal gonna enjoy a random Tenryu plug.


I certainly am .

TENRYU :mark:.

Has he fecking retired yet btw? I want that damn Goodhelmet set, but he said he's gonna wait until he's retired first right?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If they're seriously waiting for him to be "retired" it should have been made long ago. He did work a match this year in All Japan, but it was a special one-off match and he's sporadic as it is. Semi-retired and still does a handful of matches per year purely for novelty & b/c it's wrestling & nobody actual stays away.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Re-watched the Ladder Match, Orton/Rollins, Bray/Taker, and Lesnar/Roman all as stand alone matches, and they all went up for me. I don't know why, but I tend to appreciate matches more when they're just by themselves. I pay attention more or something. I think that people are being extreme on both sides "shitty; best ever." 

Sting/HHH was still fun to me, though all the criticisms are correct. It's still just fun if you don't take shit seriously.

Heads up: WWE is doing another free network month this month. They seemed to have figured out how to stop people from using free months multiple times now (I used to just cancel my subscription, and re-do it during the free months). But for those who have never subscribed, I figured I'd let you know.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I rewatched the whole show, and my opinions are still the same. Ladder match benefits from a adequate portion of "violent but not stupid spots" and it wasn't a retard in technicality by any means, even though it did have its contrived moments, so I still liked it a good bit; Orton/Rollins is still a solid, if not good, but completely rudementary match; Sting/HHH is still a clusterfuck of epic proportions, and it being fun doesn't excuse EVERYTHING that was wrong about it; Divas Tag is still ok despite AJ being sloppy as she was (sad to think that'll be her last WM memory w/the retirement stuff and w/e); Rusev/Cena was still the same decent but quite boring time-waster; Taker/Bray was still good, defined by good selling and great character work; Lesnar/Reigns was still killer in pretty much every way. Nothing's really changed at all.

But again: "one of the best Manias ever" praise are bullshit opinions to my eyes. Counting the pre-show stuff, I only have above the *** mark the Fatal 4-Way (***), the Ladder match (***1/2), Taker/Wyatt (***) and the Main Event (****1/4). Everything else is below. It was a fun show, WAY better than it had any right to be, and certainly better than some other Manias over the last few years, but the mad love for it... I just don't get it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

When you consider that Wrestlemanias more often than not tend to be disappointing or weak, it's nice to see a show that exceeds one's expectations no matter how low those expectations were. I haven't rewatched anything from the show other than the last two matches, but for the most part they both held up for me with a little bit of a drop. Sometimes though, you just gotta ditch the Cal scale and have fun with a show. And that's what people did with Mania.

Brock/Punk was the last time I watched wrestling with a group of 10+ number of friends. We all loved it and considered it one of our favorite matches ever. I really think Punk understood how to work with Brock better than anyone except for Angle. One thing I loved about this match (among the million things) was the use of finishers. I really don't like how much finishers get spammed in Lesnar's matches these days and all they do now is make Lesnar's opponent look weak. Brock/Punk didn't have a single finisher kickout and it worked out better than any other Lesnar match in this run. I know Brock is supposed to be the biggest beast ever (and he is), but it would be cool to see wrestlers find more creative ways to display Lesnar's freakish nature besides hitting a bunch of finishers on him and in essence making themselves look weaker.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Mania was really fun. Well put together. No 5 star classics but still a fun show. Not as great the second time through but still fun. I was never bored. Which is one of the goals. 

I watched with my GF who does not know much about wrestling. She watched it some as a kid but like a lot of people out grew it. She had fun. It's fun to watch a big event like that with someone who is not a fan. She asked when the next PPV was. 

She didn't like the whole concept of the battle royal. 

She thought Bryan was fun to watch. Thought Dolph's hair was fucking stupid. Thinks Ambrose needs mental help. Thinks Barrett looks like a porn star. Also, was impressed by Bryan's cardio. 

She thought Cesaro was adorable and should have been in a "bigger match". Hahaha I told her she had good intuition. I explained a lot of things to her. Like the Punk situation. She was surprised AJ was still there considering what happened. Obviously she had a good point. 


She was really impressed by the Rollins/Orton match. Thought the ending was cool. Explained to her the RKO concept and she thought it was silly but fun. 

She was stunned Ric Flair and Bret Hart were still alive. Kinda marked out when Bret came on the screen. She said I looooooved him and she thought Owen was so mean to him. 

She was shocked the Undertaker was still around. She asked if that was the same guy that use to put people in coffins haha. I love her. 

She thinks Reigns is adorable. Yes yes sweetheart. Great hair, dreamy eyes, blah blah. I showed her a couple of his....cough.....promos and she laughed. She asked if people actually found him believable haha. She thought the ending was cheap and underhanded. So as I'm sitting there marking out for an RoH alum she was like but he can't do that. I explained how brilliant it was. She said well now Orton needs a match for the title right?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

AJ Lee retired? 

:hbday

Or whatever the emoticon's code is.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Love the Funker avi! In the mood for some middle aged and crazy. Will watch the 1989 matches with Flair and Steamboat later.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

My girlfriend actually liked WM far more than I did on the overall, especially Sting/HHH which she loved just for the ridiculousness of it all. She didn't like Taker/Wyatt on the other hand, and I argued why it was good, and she disagreed given the slow pace and stupid stuff in it (i.e. Wyatt throwing himself into the steps, kicking out of Tombstones, etc.). We watched it together, and we clearly split sides on many arguments, which I don't know is a good thing or a Godawful thing :lol But eh, she's the world to me to whatever. We did agree on marking out for Rollins tho :rollins

Jesus, I still have the Callihan/Generico EVOLVE 13 match saved in my PC. I never even came close to finishing my Steenerico project :lmao Well, I did get to watch that INCREDIBLE Black/Steen match from 2010, ****3/4 for that.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

My GF was pretty bummed Sting lost. Which made me happy because I have not been that upset about who went over since Punk lost at Night of Champions in 2011. To you know who. :jpl

I think I have mentioned on here I use to do a wrestling podcast. Dude I did it with is from Iowa and knows Rollins pretty well. He marked out huuuuuuuge. Midwest was well represented with Rollins, Brock and Sting (Omaha native).

ATF, the Steen/Black match you are talking about is that Salvation 2010? If so I loooooooove that match. One of my favorite RoH matches ever.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yes, it was Salvation 2010. My mind was blown by that match.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Besides Rollins what other heels left WM with the title? 

HHH
Austin (technically after the turn at 17)
Orton (24)
Miz (27) :lol


Am I missing anyone? NOT talking about WHC.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cena @ mania 23 :lelbron

I feel mania has become such a spectacle and you just get a sense for being a wrasslin fan in general in a sense, that we will find some enjoyment in it even if the matches/angles are less than stellar. I think that they started becoming like that since the 28 show. Punk said something in his interview w/ Cabana which I found really true, that "Mania is the draw, not HHH/ROCK etc" I believe that


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I don't care for HHH/Rock in 2015. Rock/Brock would definitely draw, even if I'm not a big fan of Rock anymore, that would still sell.

I almost put on Cyber Sunday 2007 on the other day at random, I haven't watched the event at all. I might still put it on. I watched Taboo Tuesday 2005 the other day.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm not really sure if my girlfriend had any positive emotions coming out of Wrestlemania. I mean, she liked that Bryan & Orton won but HATED the Rollins cash-in. She's a massive Roman Reigns fan so she could hardly watch the main event and got SO pissed when Rollins' music hit. It was hilarious. I was marking the fuck out and she was cussing like a sailor :lol She knew Cena was gonna win (because he wins everything in her words) and had no idea what the hell was going on during HHH/Sting (who did though? ). We both felt Taker/Wyatt was relatively boring. She doesn't like the Big Show but thought it made sense for him to win against Mizdow because that wouldn't have been believable.

I really hope Rock vs. HHH doesn't happen next year. Rock can't work a match anymore and I'd rather see Hunter put someone over next year who could actually use the win. Maybe Reigns finally? Cesaro in a storyline where he's sick of being held back by the higher ups? I'm still baffled that he beat Sting this year...


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

HHH will get Goldberg to come back and bury him too, again.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

My biggest takeaway from the last page is everyone in this thread has a girlfriend :mj2


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I do, but they aint watching WRASSLIN with me. That's my time.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I watched with my GF who does not know much about wrestling. She watched it some as a kid but like a lot of people out grew it. She had fun. It's fun to watch a big event like that with someone who is not a fan. She asked when the next PPV was.


Casuals always seem to enjoy shows more than hardcores do. It's more fun watching with casuals, because that positive attitude tends to rub off some.

I agree with her about Dolph's hair. When he does shit like that, it's like he's _trying_ not to be taken seriously.

lol at her being surprised that Taker is still around. That would be surprising for an old fan.


Wade Keller's WM ratings:

Tag Team Title Match - **

Battle Royal- ** 1/4

IC Title Ladder Match - ** 3/4

Orton vs. Rollins - *** 1/4

Sting vs. HHH - ** 3/4

AJ/Paige vs. Bellas - * 1/4

Cena vs. Rusev - ***

Taker vs. Bray - ** 3/4

Lesnar vs. Reigns - **** 1/4


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

MY RATINGS

Tag Team Title Match - ***

Battle Royal- ** 

IC Title Ladder Match - ** 3/4

Orton vs. Rollins - *** 1/2

Sting vs. HHH - *

Cena vs. Rusev - **

Taker vs. Bray - *

Lesnar vs. Reigns - **** 

taker/bray was fucking boring. sting/hhh was a disappointment, the * is for the nwo/dx thing, match itself was shit. main event was great


thinking of watching these atm:
summerslam 98
backlash 07
Judgment day 2000
extreme rules 2012
no way out 2001
summerslam 2013
royal rumble 2000
summerslam 2002
wrestlemania 19


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Raylan Givens said:


> My biggest takeaway from the last page is everyone in this thread has a girlfriend :mj2


:cry


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm just not getting the best mania ever vibe at all. I would put 30 and maybe 28 over it for shows within the last 6 years. It was consistent but did it top Bryan beating HHH and winning the title the same night coupled with the shocking end to the streak? Nope. This show was probably one of the more consistent shows for me in terms of mania in the last 10 or so years. My least favorite match was probably HHH/Sting and even that I found fun in parts. There was no DUD level match like the divas scramble last year or Bryan losing in 18 seconds, it was all just average stuff, outside of the main event which was just epic. 

Watched Bryan/Sheamus from SD, good stuff, Barrett on commentary was :lmao


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

LilOlMe said:


> Heads up: WWE is doing another free network month this month. They seemed to have figured out how to stop people from using free months multiple times now (I used to just cancel my subscription, and re-do it during the free months). But for those who have never subscribed, I figured I'd let you know.


 I've been waiting for this jackass TLC 2010 torrent to download so another free month would have been good. Bugger.



KENNY said:


> Judgment day 2000


Do that. The opener is *********8/9


---------

I had so much shit to say about Brock before Mania, and I stand by not wanting a champion that never shows up, but after the Reigns match, I do not want him wasted on the Rock.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Yeah1993 said:


> I've been waiting for this jackass TLC 2010 torrent to download so another free month would have been good. Bugger.


bad internet?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Internet's OK-ish. TLC torrent's at around 250-330kb/s right now, which is pretty good. For me, anyway. I think it's good? I had a different torrent at 1.4MB/s the other day. That gets me like "AWWWW YEAH!!"

@Hayley Seydoux you gave me a list of 2010 a while back and this was on it:

30 Seconds Over Tokyo vs DZP ~ 7/1

What the hell is it? :lmao Is it a WWE match? Google doesn't think it exists.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

"Zack Ryder & Primo Colon vs Goldust & Yoshi Tatsu"

That's the opener of the show. May have been a dark match. It's too early in the day for Hayley's codework.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I love that I literally wrote out the tag names I had for both like you'd actually be aware of my own esoteric encryption or something. :lmao

Rah, got it, btw. It's on the show.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Does anyone know exactly what happened at the end of the Bryan/Sheamus match on Smackdown? Did Bryan hit his head on the monitor or something?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rah said:


> "Zack Ryder & Primo Colon vs Goldust & Yoshi Tatsu"
> 
> That's the opener of the show. May have been a dark match. It's too early in the day for Hayley's codework.





Hayley Seydoux said:


> I love that I literally wrote out the tag names I had for both like you'd actually be aware of my own esoteric encryption or something. :lmao
> 
> Rah, got it, btw. It's on the show.


I still haven't figured the coding out even though I know the match. Yoshi is Japanese so that explains "Tokyo". The rest, IDK. :lol Doesn't matter though b/c another GOLDUST MATCH. :mark:


TLC torrent is probably a half hour away from finishing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*30 Seconds Over Tokyo* is a movie. Goldust gimmick was based off of being a film aficionado. You got the Yoshi part; he's Japanese. So it stuck. 8*D

DZP is one I can't wholly take credit for; it was sort of their unofficial name kept afloat by Ryder & Scott Stanford. "Down w/Zack & Primo" = DZP.

This is my life.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

At least keep it simple so everyone can figure out what it is, Cody. Like BANGLE AND REDGE. Still one of the proudest moments of my life when I came up with that .



Anyone got a link to Batista/Cena LMS match? Only found one video of it online in full and it had Spanish commentary.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Simple?

NEVER.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Stop overcompensating for your simple mind .

SUMMERSLAM 2006 PPV RAMBLE POSTED ON MY BLOGS~! Lots of LITA admiring and plenty of calling Cena a CUNT. And an awesome OLD MAN FLAIR VS OLD MAN FOLEY match. Shame the show was kinda shit outside of Flair and Foley. Think it got the same CAL SCALE rating as WM 31 :lmao.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watched the rest of that show today, actually. Interesting. Still big on DX vs McMahons & Cena vs Edge. Foley vs Flair has def always been fun, but I HATE those false finishes. Hurts the match. Not completely, but it's there.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

DX/McMahons is fun. Edge/Cena is trash, like all their matches together.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

We're copacetic on the whole show except for the main. That's a p. good curve for us.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Woo go us!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I have little to no memory of the Edge/Taker TLC match, can somebody help me out on how good is it? My girlfiend says it has Taker being thrown off a ladder through lots of tables and Edge winning, that's all I know.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It's shit. A spotfest that was predictable even while watching live.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wow, Cal shitting on a 2008 Taker match means must be bad. 

But my girlfriend recommended it. WHO DO I TRUST? :taker


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

We all know the answer is me. If I think an Undertaker match is bad, then oh boy it REALLY must fucking suck. If I say an Undertaker match is incredible... well then you can be a little wary... .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, it does stink. Now that's two of us shooting it down. You won't get any more of a seal of approval than that.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched The Shield vs Evolution - Extreme Rules 2014 just now, still love it as much as i did watching it live TBH. I am surprised they didn't put this on The Shield WWE Set, and instead included the Payback match, which ill watch in a bit.

Don't remember liking that one half as much though. :9


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Extreme Rules is great. Payback is MAYBE okay, but certainly universes away from the first match.

Anyway, I'm just done watching the Taker/Edge TLC match. Wow. I love my girl, she's everything to me... but good God her opinion on this match sucks ass. Just like this match. You guys complain about the Edge/Cena TLC one? THIS WAS EVEN WORSE. At least that had insane crowd involvement and Lita to look at. Plus, I was actually minimally impressed at some of the spots (like the FU through the tables, in spite of its contrived ridiculousness). I couldn't even bring myself to do that here.

Okay, positives of the match which kept it away from DUD levels:
- Undertaker's non-weapon offense, which was as good as ever;
- Undertaker's selling of the leg, which was perfection;
- The crowd, which wasn't great but was pretty into it;
- The fact that the match, as bad it was, didn't exactly drag or got boring at any time - at least it was easy to sit through in terms of time management.

That out of the way, let's look at the negatives, and there's a ton of them:
- Half of the match was spent on SETTING UP SPOTS. Like, blatant setting up. Instead of trying to win, both guys - more so Edge, but Taker did it too so don't try to excuse him - spent half of their time setting up lots and lots of tables. And lots. And lots of tables. And if that wasn't enough, the setting up of lots of ladders was also there too, and not just in the positive "I'm gonna put this ladder and I'm gonna fucking grab that title" way, but in lots of "it's here just because" ways. The fact that the match was a spotfest didn't even bother me, I didn't give a shit about that. In terms of the spots themselves and how they actually meant something, this wasn't even an absolute abomination compared to some Cena LMS matches i.e.. But a spotfest where the spots are so blatant and so predictable and so contrived? FUCK. OFF. NOW.;
- Edge attacking Taker's leg was an awesome move... but it was so on and off, and so completely underutilized that it made me think: "Wow, even I could work that leg better than Edge here". Hell, at points it made me think Taker was just overselling the shit out of the leg because Edge spent so little time attacking it, even if he did do credible damage;
- At the start, Edge was crawling up the ladder after spending minutes on offense and only taking a few punches and chairshots. That was just stupid;
- Returning to my original setting up spots point, some of the spot setups were just retarded. Like Edge's goons preparing to put Taker down by doing that Jeff Hardy thing where he splashes himself through two tables, with only the one below having Taker in it. I got Hardy doing that because... fuck, that is Hardy after all, a total lunatic; but here it was just ridiculous. Out of the all the spots they could've done, they had to prepare the one where they actually would hurt themselves. Right...;
- Oh, oh, OH. This was my favorite one: at the end - bold that word, *END* - of the match, after taking out Chavo and Neely (who has the worst punches ever), Taker deliberately moved the ladder just so he would be in a position to be thrown off of it through the billions of tables set up on the outside at the beggining of the match. *Beggining*. THIS WAS A 25 MINUTE MATCH. And the spot didn't even incite a Holy Shit or something, just a small Oh... Of Course from me. That's how contrived it was.

I hated this fucking piece of shit. No, it's not the worst match ever, it's not even DUD worthy or anything, but I wasted 25 minutes of my life (and these additional 15 more writing this review, making it a total 40 minutes) not trying to go to my girl's house instead of talking to her on Skype for the sake of watching this bullshit. If I were to go on stars, ** would be too much of a stretch. About *, maybe *1/4 for the awesome leg selling and offense by Taker. Garbage.

At least they had the Hell In A Cell match to make up for it.


----------



## Sgt. Pepper (Nov 12, 2008)

I loved the Edge/Taker feud back in 08. 

It was what got me sucked back into all after being out of it for a while. Credit where it's due, Vickie Guererro was one of the best heels of this generation, she can draw heat hotter than a black scorpion in the desert.

STARS
WM24 ****1/4
Backlash ****
Judgement day ***3/4
TLC ONS ***3/4
Summerslam HIAC ****1/2


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

That Edge/Taker is trainwreck. Probably my least favourite Undertaker match.
--------------

Let’s knock out some 2010 heavy hitters. I’ll have a few matches in “other contenders” by the end of this. Started the list in like October 2013.

Dolph Ziggler v. Chris Masters (SuperStars 5/13/10)
Know what I liked about this that I didn’t like about other Ziggler I’ve talked about? It was clear what was going on. Had ‘structure’; at least a semblance of it. “Feeling out” goes how you’d expect it to, with Masters using strength to embarrass Dolph. What you might not expect is coming back from the commercial, seeing Dolph in an armbar, and watching him try to claw at Masters’ face. What was he doing? Trying to get at his teeth? His nose? Either way it was great and showed considerable desperation. If Masters had a beard he would have been ripping at it. Ziggler also shakes his arm a couple times in between punches, nice touch. Ziggler takes a WELL above-average bump through the ropes which nobody in the world will ever remember because Masters takes he mother of all bumps when just literally jumping backwards to the floor off of the apron. You watch it enough and see him put his hands in the ‘protect my ass’ position but he might as well not have bothered because it was a full on splat. Here’s where Ziggler gets to work on Masters and not do Your Turn My Turn rubbish. Masters is the master of selling every little thing from trying to get a coughing candy out of his throat after a rope-stunner, to selling the fame-asser like he used his tongue to spring his own face off of the mat, thus launching the top half of his body upward. Totally badass set of comeback spots including the ‘fuck you’ backbreaker/sidewalk slam combo. Pretty sure that was where Ziggler tried to roll toward the ropes and was too exhausted to, as well. Another wonderful thing about this is Masters never actually got the masterlock in. It was teased a couple times and Ziggler panicked when escaping it, going so far as to get out of the ring. Masters returns the favour by desperately pawing to get away from the sleeper. Only fitting that neither move ended the match, in a way. Well it definitely would have been if they set up a meaningful rematch but what the fuck ever, WWE. Stick Ziggler against Kofi again. ADDING.

Chris Masters v. Chavo Guerrero (SuperStars 8/12/10)
I don’t know if the bump Masters took off of the apron in the Ziggler match was worse than the one he took of the apron in this match. In the Ziggler match he kind of put his arms in the way but he fell further out. In this one he fell and didn’t seem to bother protecting himself. In fact I’d buy it if someone said he actually hurt his left elbow on it. Chavo does the Guerrero rope somersault while Masters is laying on the floor for extra oomph and cringe. Chavo was pretty great for most this, either being a scuzzy jackoff or firing away at Masters to try to keep him down. And especially continually hitting those ribs that Masters landed on. But damn, you know this is another episode of Chris Masters: The Show. It being a rib match meant that any single move directed toward the mid-section could be treated as lethal and Masters is so good at making any move look lethal. And he was unreal throwing chops to try to get back into it, especially on his knees. And during a leg-scissor he goes full BattlARTS and starts nailing Chavo in the face with forearms. He does a fucking jackhammer to interrupt the three Amigos too. A JACKHAMMER. After clubbing each other on the top rope a little, Chavo decides to take a plunge and bring Masters down onto the rope, and the way Masters landed Chavo had to do a little turn in mid-air during the frog splash. This feels short. What else do I say about this? It’s just a fucking awesome piece of wrestling. ADDING

Goldust v. William Regal (SuperStars 8/26/10)
Great example of doing simple things but executing them in non-simple ways. Did Goldust stomp on your hand? OK, sell it like you legitimately dislocated a finger and struggle to clasp your hands together. You need to convince people you can fling a guy upside-down with a whip-move? Scream while doing it. Armbar? Bend his fingers back. Chinlock? Fuck a chinlock – go for his nose and teeth instead so his facepaint can be seen on your elbow pad two minutes later. Do you have a missed splash coming up? OK, fling yourself out of the ring and compete with everybody for Most Insane Bump 2010 (seriously did everybody just want to do nutty floor bumps after Christian/Swagger in 09?). Regal being fed up with Goldust not being dead on the floor, cutting the crap and yelling as he runs with a trembler was a perfect end. I wish I could have this really high but it was criminally short, and as I keep telling everyone, there’s a lot of good shit on WWE TV in 2010. Still….ADDING

Drew McIntyre v. Chris Masters (SuperStars 8/26/10)
I don’t think I actually knew this match had happened until maybe a couple years after it did. Same with McIntyre/Rey (that I haven’t gotten to yet for the list, but have seen). And I was fully onboard the train of both of these guys in 2010, so I don’t know how this slipped by. And what the fuck? Not long ago I said that the 2011 match was “twice as good as this”, but I was wayyy off. Going by memory I still absolutely think that one is better, but I underappreciated this quite a lot. It’s a leg match and everyone who isn’t reading me for the first time knows I love a limb match, and it helps when you have Masters pulling a Christian-level sell, and McIntyre doing spinning toe holds that look like he’s aiming to break Masters’ ankle because Masters fucked his wife or something. The initial swing of the leg onto the ring post was amazing. Came off as really violent and spiteful. Masters on-knee chops were even better than in the Chavo match because he looked in pain just from being on his knees. He had one standing chop that was incredible because he fell forward and had to use his hands to stand up. After already looking drugged up on the ropes. McIntyre chucking a lightning-quick dropkick to Masters’ leg after an Irish whip was badass as fuck. I hate writing about matches like this sometimes because there is no way to describe it beyond “a guy acted like his leg was hurt the exact way you’d expect someone with an actual hurt leg to act,” but fuck, I’ll say Masters’ verbal selling was on fucking point. When remembering all time favourite verbal sells I’ll have to remember this one. I obviously can’t be specific with onomatopoeia but just take my word, it was amazing. There was no nutbar out-of-ring bump, but a nutbar thing by Masters where he’d jump backward to seemingly want to crack his head on McIntyre’s knee. This was just two great wrestlers having a great match because of dual great performances. McIntyre even lands on his feet after being clothesline over the top rope, falls toward the announce table, and doesn’t make it look silly. Like he tried to land but actually lost his footing because his feet were too close together. Shit, I mean it, I underrated this big time. This ep of SS had two added matches. Did more for me than most PPVs. ADDING



Current list:



Spoiler: WHATTUP?



1.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/30/10)
2.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (SmackDown 2/12/10)
3.	John Cena v. Batista (Extreme Rules 4/25/10)
4.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Over the Limit 5/23/10)
5.	Drew McIntyre v. Chris Masters (SuperStars 8/26/10)
6.	The Miz v. Daniel Bryan (Night of Champions 9/19/10)
7.	Chris Masters v. Chavo Guerrero (SuperStars 8/12/10)
8.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 8/20/10)
9.	Jack Swagger v. Rey Mysterio (SmackDown 6/11/10)
10.	Christian v. William Regal (ECW 1/19/10)
11.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/16/10)
12.	Rey Mysterio v. Jack Swagger (Money in the Bank 7/18/10)
13.	Christian v. Ezekiel Jackson (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
14.	Rey Mysterio v. Mike Knox (SuperStars 2/18/10)
15.	Christian/Kane v. William Regal/Ezekiel Jackson (ECW 1/26/10)
16.	Sheamus v. John Morrison (Survivor Series 11/21/10)
17.	Dolph Ziggler v. Chris Masters (SuperStars 5/13/10)
18.	John Cena/Edge/Chris Jericho/Bret Hart/John Morrison/R-Truth/Daniel Bryan v. The Nexus (SummerSlam 8/15/10)
19.	Shawn Michaels v. The Undertaker (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
20.	Goldust v. William Regal (SuperStars 8/12/10)
21.	William Regal v. Evan Bourne (SuperStars 3/4/10)
22.	Chris Jericho v. Evan Bourne (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
23.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Extreme Rules 4/29/10)
24.	The Undertaker v. Rey Mysterio (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
25.	Drew McIntyre v. Kaval (SmackDown 9/10/10)


Other Contenders:

-	Christian v. William Regal (SuperStars 1/14/10)
-	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
-	Kofi Kingston v. Drew McIntyre (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
-	Rey Mysterio/The Big Show/Kofi Kingston/Chris Masters/MVP v. Alberto Del Rio/Jack Swagger/Cody Rhodes/Drew McIntyre/Tyler Reks (Survivor Series 11/21/10) 
-


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Rewatched HHH/Flair from Survivor Series 2005 and Taboo Tuesday today. They are both still amazing, like really amazing. The chemistry that those two had together it's pretty mind-blowing:

Cage Match: ****1/2
LMS Match: ****1/4


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

@Yeah1993, you might be able to sign up for the network for the free trial under a different email address. Just make sure you're logged out from the original email address.

Now that I think of it, I don't think I ever logged out. That might be why it didn't let me. Though I'd never logged out in the past when it did let me before.

If you try it, let me know if it works.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

cbf tl;dr with cals RANT

but i need to check out that foley/flair i quit match


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Terry Funk vs. Bruce Waca (1981?)*

x1zy03r

Terry Funk pummels a Florida jobber in a cage to a bloody mess, 
and then cuts an insane promo on Dusty Rhodes, while slamming his head into a cage. 
Also includes classic Gordon Solie indignation.

The fucking Funker. :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

http://wrestlingclassics.com/cgi-bin/.ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=133299;p=1

Found this stuff from Lou Thesz's forum about that Waca/Funk match. Apparently Waca's gimmick was that he used to be a welder that finally achieved his goal of being a pro wrestler only for Funk to kill him. It played to the idea that Dusty is the representative of the "working man". But for reasons that I wish the people in that thread clarified, the feud never reached its full potential despite what sounds like a cool idea.


----------



## yesdanielbryan (May 23, 2014)

What is a DVD of 4 Horsemen?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

yesdanielbryan said:


> What is a DVD of 4 Horsemen?


This is the Official one from WWE: http://www.amazon.com/Ric-Flair-The-Four-Horsemen/dp/B000LC3III


----------



## yesdanielbryan (May 23, 2014)

Brock said:


> This is the Official one from WWE: http://www.amazon.com/Ric-Flair-The-Four-Horsemen/dp/B000LC3III


Thanks


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

That is an underrated DVD for sure


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Flair shouting "ILL KILL YOU TOO, BITCH!" At Melina in that SS06' match is just classic :lmao. That match was definitely great, but man it sucks they had their time cut right before going out. Foley said they had about 5-7 more minutes worth of stuff to go through and had to throw it all out, then they ended up rushing the finish which made the whole ending fall flat. Would love to see how great that could have ended up had they done everything they wanted to, there's a chance it could have rivaled the Foley/Orton match from Backlash, because both men brought the intensity and the hate that night. That's really all you need when you have the character and the credentials that those two men possess. That's why their LMS match worked. A fired up, pissed off Foley vs a fired up, pissed off Flair, no matter what their age is, will always be a delight to watch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

All of those 2010 matches you watched, Jheri. :mj2

btw I'm excited. I finally think I found a way to see that Bourne vs Chavo match you chose as 2008 MOTY. I don't remember a single thing from it so this is the kind of "gem" I'm always giddy for walking into.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Should have just asked, dude. :lmao http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x72sr2_ecw-10-14-08-part-1-4_sport edit - audio might actually be a little out of sync. Forgot where I watched it back for the 2000s poll, but I bet I could find it again. Either way I have all of 2008 ECW now. :mark: That's a list for another time.

@LilOlMe the torrent's finished so I don't think I'll bother with the network again just yet. My next thing planned is something the newtork probably has very little for but I'll wait and see. I'll try the alternate email thing, if that's the case, thanks for that. 

-----------------



Go again~

Rey Mysterio v. Luke Gallows (SmackDown 5/3/10)
Very good Rey match. Ta-da~! Another rib match and Rey was awesome making it his Achilles heel. He takes a new twist on “everybody fall out of the ring” by spinning like a loon after being flung into the ring post. Gallows also goes shoulder-first into the ring post after Rey jumps over him in an awesome spot to avoid hurting his ribs even further, but doesn’t fall to the outside. He was new here. When Rey jumps over him you see Rey crumple as if his sternum collapsed into his stomach. Aside from being a rib match this was also really well worked around Rey avoiding Gallows by moving quickly. Constant movement, baiting him out of the ring, and even switching up armbar positions so he wasn’t in one place. Gallows has a mean right hook, knee drop, and a fucking great flying shoulderblock that comes out of nowhere. And for a little variety Rey used a chopblock instead of a swirly move or dropkick to the back to get Gallows in the 619 position which was completely fantastic. And he doesn’t even use the 619 to win. See, variety. ADDING

Rey Mysterio v. Luke Gallows (SmackDown 3/19/10)
Damn, this was short. But damn, it was good. Unlike the above match this had Rey in angry form, throwing stiff kicks and letting his emotions fuck with his normal game. Really great teased count out too, could have bought the match being over had I not seen the time on youtube. Gallows continuing being the nastiest son of a bitch in the first half of the year by throwing Rey below the bottom rope so Rey goes face-forward into the outside floor; almost sliding into the barricade. But since it’s “almost”, Gallows brings Rey chest-first onto barricade-top to make up for it. Bald Woman McPunk gives Rey a nasty tumble while Punk distracts the ref as well. ADDING


Current list:



Spoiler: WHATTUP?



1.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/30/10)
2.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (SmackDown 2/12/10)
3.	John Cena v. Batista (Extreme Rules 4/25/10)
4.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Over the Limit 5/23/10)
5.	Drew McIntyre v. Chris Masters (SuperStars 8/26/10)
6.	The Miz v. Daniel Bryan (Night of Champions 9/19/10)
7.	Chris Masters v. Chavo Guerrero (SuperStars 8/12/10)
8.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 8/20/10)
9.	Jack Swagger v. Rey Mysterio (SmackDown 6/11/10)
10.	Christian v. William Regal (ECW 1/19/10)
11.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/16/10)
12.	Rey Mysterio v. Jack Swagger (Money in the Bank 7/18/10)
13.	Christian v. Ezekiel Jackson (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
14.	Rey Mysterio v. Mike Knox (SuperStars 2/18/10)
15.	Christian/Kane v. William Regal/Ezekiel Jackson (ECW 1/26/10)
16.	Sheamus v. John Morrison (Survivor Series 11/21/10)
17.	Dolph Ziggler v. Chris Masters (SuperStars 5/13/10)
18.	John Cena/Edge/Chris Jericho/Bret Hart/John Morrison/R-Truth/Daniel Bryan v. The Nexus (SummerSlam 8/15/10)
19.	Rey Mysterio v. Luke Gallows (SmackDown 3/5/10)
20.	Shawn Michaels v. The Undertaker (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
21.	Goldust v. William Regal (SuperStars 8/12/10)
22.	William Regal v. Evan Bourne (SuperStars 3/4/10)
23.	Chris Jericho v. Evan Bourne (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
24.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Extreme Rules 4/29/10)
25.	The Undertaker v. Rey Mysterio (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)


Other Contenders:

-	Christian v. William Regal (SuperStars 1/14/10)
-	Rey Mysterio v. Luke Gallows (SmackDown 3/19/10)
-	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
-	Kofi Kingston v. Drew McIntyre (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
-	Drew McIntyre v. Kaval (SmackDown 9/10/10)
-	Rey Mysterio/The Big Show/Kofi Kingston/Chris Masters/MVP v. Alberto Del Rio/Jack Swagger/Cody Rhodes/Drew McIntyre/Tyler Reks (Survivor Series 11/21/10) 
-


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Then find the one w/better audio if you can. I'm asking now. :evil (if not, I'll just use Hulu like I was)

Mysterio vs Gallows :mark:

I guess you decided to say "fuck it" w/the sea of trash and get on the stuff that actually matters from the year. Nevermind. You did finish all of the PPVs.

EDIT - :lmao @ Bald Woman McPunk


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Not finished with TLC yet. I've actually watched Sheamus/Morrison though and I know where it'll be, so pretend there's another match on the list. Still got quite a few things I'm willing to watch but I'm worried how I'll write about them. I might have to start doing two sentence 'reviews' but with like 30 matches in one post. Running out of things to say. At least PPVs got me shooting shit.

I could probably upload Chavo/Bourne within the next 48 hours if the 08 ECW torrent I got doesn't have fucked audio. If you don't want to wait then yeah, use hulu.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Now you know why I never do reviews. b/c often times I run out of stuff to say after I finish one decent length review. Then move on and hit a wall.

I can wait. Would be easier to just have the match solo instead of having to skip ahead and wait for the (brief) breaks to finish up.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Kane (c) vs. Alberto Del Rio vs. Edge vs. Rey Mysterio

great match


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao Good luck convincing the rest of this thread besides myself that that match is great. Yeah needs to watch that Taker/Punk match on Smackdown in like September. Best television match that year. Also cool to see the tradition of Taker getting split chants against Punk continuing.

I'm zipping through stuff from 2007. What the hell was going on with Umaga? Dude had a big feud with Cena but then he was forced to be the fourth wheel in a feud with Lashley that lasted for half a year. Thank goodness he transitioned into that fun Hardy feud, but then the terror of HHH halted his momentum. Between Cena and Jeff though, who would you guys say has the best chemistry with Umaga?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao Good luck convincing the rest of this thread besides myself that that match is great. Yeah needs to watch that Taker/Punk match on Smackdown in like September. Best television match that year. Also cool to see the tradition of Taker getting split chants against Punk continuing.
> 
> I'm zipping through stuff from 2007. What the hell was going on with Umaga? Dude had a big feud with Cena but then he was forced to be the fourth wheel in a feud with Lashley that lasted for half a year.


I've seen Taker/Punk. Good, and off memory going on the list, but it won't be high. 

I think Umaga being involved in the Donald Trump thing was a good sign the company liked and trusted him, tbh. The Hardy GAB match is still a favourite of mine.


Got Chavo/Bourne ready to upload right now. Audio seems fine.


----------



## cena542007 (Apr 1, 2007)

Royal Rumble 2003:

**1/2 - Big Show vs. Brock Lesnar
**3/4 - The Dudley Boyz vs. Storm/Regal
DUD - Dawn Marie vs. Torrie Wilson
*1/4 - Triple H vs. Scott Steiner
****1/2 - Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit
***1/2 - Royal Rumble Match

Overall: ***1/4


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

cena542007 said:


> Royal Rumble 2003:
> 
> **1/2 - Big Show vs. Brock Lesnar
> **3/4 - The Dudley Boyz vs. Storm/Regal
> ...


I just watched this event yesterday too, I'd agree with these. :brock


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jheri w/that swerve that was completely not his fault. :mj2


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

so i've been watching videos on debuts lately. 

what are some peoples favourites?

Jericho, Kane, SHIELD, Eric Bischoff, Goldberg, LESNAR, Nexus off the top of my head


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think you just about hit the nail on the head for all the ones that were made to have a significant impact upon arrival, haha. 

But def Undertaker's & Foley's (non-promo) appearances earn a nod in my book. Oh, and Solomon Crowe's b/c I was guaranteed to flip out just seeing him on TV. And I did.

Random shout out to Oz, b/c the elaborate entrance WCW actually gave him is something I can never forget.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I have no idea what to watch. 

I can never seem to stick with one thing/plan.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Watch SHIELD. Because everything SHIELD (except Reigns singles matches not against Lesnar) is awesome.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Im the same TBH. So many projects i want to finally start, or ones ive started 
and just forgot about (like my WWF 2001 watching).

Ill put my foot down soon and fucking stick to something to the end soon. Im
watching the couple of Phil Schneider comps atm (which are two disc sets that contain
random matches from all years/promotions). 

*One Man Gang vs Big Bubba Rogers (UWF Mid South) (04.19.1987)*

x24eaen

Finally fucking watched this. :mark: Talk bout a slugfest, one clothsline that Gang gave Rogers that could probably be heard from Space.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

KENNY said:


> Kane (c) vs. Alberto Del Rio vs. Edge vs. Rey Mysterio
> 
> great match





funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao Good luck convincing the rest of this thread besides myself that that match is great.


That's one of the ones where I was truly shocked by the reactions in this thread. I didn't post anything about it, but I saw people here shitting on it.

That's one of my preferred TLC matches. Everything flowed together well, and I thought it had cute little storylines of everyone trying to take Kane down. For once, Kane really did look like a monster.

There were a few botches, but some of the stuff between Edge & Rey was sick.

Del Rio was vicious in this, and I was shocked as hell that he was the one who took the biggest bump. Never saw that coming, as I was actually thinking to myself when he was introduced in this match "he's not used to this crazy shit." I just never imagined him totally throwing himself into a match like this the way that he did.

What's the beef?

Eh, won't change the fact that I think that it was great match, that kept my attention the entire way through. And most importantly, every guy felt significant in this. That's kind of rare.

**** or higher ish.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

For the sake of all of this TLC 2010 talk, I decided to watch the Ziggler/Swagger/Kofi Ladder match that opened that show. Aaaand... it was a very weird match. Honestly, I expected it to be a hell of a lot worse, sure enough, but it still kinda sucked. Which is sad, because the match had a lot of cool little things about it: Kofi dropped a ladder on Swagger's hand and injured it (which is kinda ingenious because you need your arms/hands to climb a ladder, even more so than your legs... fuck, now I wanna see a Ladder match based around ARMWORK, and Christian selling it) - and Swagger's selling was great... if it was selling and not legit pain that is, which probably was w/the taping and whatnot; the fact that a few of the bigger spots like the Fameasser on the ladder and Ziggler jumping over Swagger/Kofi to crawl up the ladder came off looking natural; and the little tug-of-war between Ziggler and Kofi at the end... well, save for the fact that Kofi's strikes sucked.

That being said, there was still a lot of shitty stuff in it too. Vickie Guerrero's spot was kinda silly and not something that hadn't been done before (Maryse @ MITB; hell, Hornswoggle @ WM 23, w/a much cooler outcome); after the Fameasser spot, EVERYBODY rolled out of the ring, including Dolph... for no apparent reason (other than to setup the Vickie spot... but at least it wasn't so blatant I called it a mile away like in Taker/Edge)... and Kofi, who took it, WAS THE FIRST GUY BACK IN; there was STILL contrived ladder setups (though the use of the said ladder was okay, so I guess it wasn't all bad); and the ending... uhh... well, I guess it was original, sure enough... but it also made the Vickie spot look like Benoit/Finlay in terms of seriousness rate. Oh, and at the beggining, Kofi and Swagger oversold a weak headbutt. That was hilarious.

Sooo... yeah. It wasn't a total waste of time, it was actually a pretty short match, I believe around 7 or 8 minutes, so whatever pain it could've caused wouldn't last long. And, again, it had its good stuff and its positives, and I probably took more enjoyment out of it than the Taker/Edge TLC match. That being said, it was still sucky and far from good. Maybe if they had put more focus in the handwork on Swagger I would've liked it much more. Stars? Eh, likely it's *, maybe *1/4.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well a certain MITB has a certain person getting his arm worked on . And he even continues to sell it a week or so after on Raw and SD too .


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I just watched Lesnar/Reigns from Mania again for the first time since it aired and my goodness, my emotions were literally just as high as they were watching live. Absolutely incredible match. Gives me goosebumps when Rollins' music hits and he gets the 1-2-3.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh yeah, how could I forget that? The GOAT MITB match and one of the GOAT Ladder matches. Hell, that WAS the greater bulk of said match's story. Oh wait, nevermind, I do know how I could forget that - I'm supposed to, because of the guy selling having "never existed" 8*D


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Do people still consider _Bret Hart/Owen Hart vs Steiner Brothers (WWF 1/11/94)_ one of the great WWF tag matches? I think someone in here shat on it before, could have been Cal, in fact probably was, ah fuck it ill say it was. :side:

IMO, it's one of the greatest WWF tag matches. Between this and the Action Zone 'Kliq' tag, it's one helluva two punch combo for '94.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Love that tag match. Reminds me of the Steiners vs. Luger/Sting match. Nothing like two face teams colliding. The fact that someone here shat on it is evidence that it's a great match. I think there was another tag match that year on Action Zone involving members of the Hart Foundation that was really good. Oh, and the RR 94 tag match that led to Owen's heel turn. Very good stuff.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Love that tag match. Reminds me of the Steiners vs. Luger/Sting match. Nothing like two face teams colliding. The fact that someone here shat on it is evidence that it's a great match. I think there was another tag match that year on Action Zone involving members of the Hart Foundation that was really good. Oh, and the RR 94 tag match that led to Owen's heel turn. Very good stuff.


This is from '95, but another fantastic Action Zone tag match:

*Bret Hart & Davey Boy Smith vs Owen Hart & Bob Backlund (WWF Action Zone 02.26.1995)*

x1tbg5y

There was: _Bret Hart & Davey Boy Smith vs. Owen Hart & Jim Neidhart (10/19/94)_, but i think that was a Raw.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Brock said:


> Do people still consider _Bret Hart/Owen Hart vs Steiner Brothers (WWF 1/11/94)_ one of the great WWF tag matches? I think someone in here shat on it before, could have been Cal, in fact probably was, ah fuck it ill say it was.
> 
> IMO, it's one of the greatest WWF tag matches. Between this and the Action Zone 'Kliq' tag, it's one helluva two punch combo for '94.


To me it's the best tag match I've ever seen. I'd not heard much about it except for a few comments on Amazon, and was blown away.

Also, it's one of the best technical matches I've ever seen.

What's best is that it also had that post match brawl. It just contained so many different things that you could want in a tag match. You wouldn't expect for a match that's about a lot of pure wrestling to break down into a brawl like that, but it did.

That match just had a believability and authenticity to it that very few matches have.

Btw, Scott Steiner was the best wrestler in that match, which says a lot about the level of talent displayed there, considering that the match also contained two of the all-time great wrestlers.

Everyone was on their games there, and there were some sick, sick, sequences with Owen & Rick.

*****

Don't think Cal shat on it, but I think Yeah liked it, but didn't love it, which surprised me a lot.



funnyfaces1 said:


> The fact that someone here shat on it is evidence that it's a great match.


:lol


ETA: Maybe 'skins didn't like it, I don't know. Can't remember if he ever watched it or not.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

lmao I liked the TLC opener more than ATF.


Steiners/Harts I've seen a few times and the last time it went down for me. That was 5 years ago and I barely remember a thing about the match though.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I just watched Lesnar/Reigns from Mania again for the first time since it aired and my goodness, my emotions were literally just as high as they were watching live. Absolutely incredible match. Gives me goosebumps when Rollins' music hits and he gets the 1-2-3.


MOTY IMO, havent seen much from WWE circa 2015, but from what I have, nothing comes close



LilOlMe said:


> T
> 
> :lol
> 
> ...


Nah, I have never seen steiners/harts before.Shocked I didnt as I had a pretty lengthy Bret kick about a month ago and went though alot of stuff, seen all the other tags being mentioned and all (Y) stuff


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I personally have the Rumble 3-way over Lesnar/Reigns by a small margin for MOTY, but they're damn close. Two incredible matches that made me mark my little heart out.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Brock said:


> Do people still consider _Bret Hart/Owen Hart vs Steiner Brothers (WWF 1/11/94)_ one of the great WWF tag matches? I think someone in here shat on it before, could have been Cal, in fact probably was, ah fuck it ill say it was. :side:
> 
> IMO, it's one of the greatest WWF tag matches. Between this and the Action Zone 'Kliq' tag, it's one helluva two punch combo for '94.


The Kliq tag is Shawn and Nash vs. Hall and Kid right? It's on one of my old VHS tapes that I have and it's just fucking awesome. 

If I ever get around to hooking up a VCR in my room I bet I have some really matches on some of those Coliseum videos. I know I have the Hart Foundation tag on there as well. 

With some quick google searches I know one of my tapes has a Bret/Razor/Vega vs. Owen/Hakushi/Yokozuna tag match on there that has to be good. I think there a Shawn/Tatanka match that is a home video exclusive as well.

Actually I googled the tape and is there a better looking 60 minute tape that has ever been made? Look at this card:

11/07/94 Bret Hart & Davey Boy Smith vs. Owen Hart & Jim Neidhart
07/94	Lex Luger vs. Diesel
1994	The 1-2-3 Kid vs. Yokozuna
09/28/94 Razor Ramon & 123 Kid vs. Shawn Michaels & Diesel(Action Zone)
10/94	Jeff Jarrett vs. Doink


----------



## Phaedra (Aug 15, 2014)

nvm.


----------



## SuperSaucySausages (Mar 15, 2014)

Edit: Wrong Thread.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Even though there's only been two, am I the only one who really like these Cena Open Challenge matches? 

If he keeps it up like this for the entire year, then it may be the closest he'll come to his 2007 year match quality wise.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

I'm digging the open challenges for the US Championship, yeah. It's nice to just watch a wrestling match with a clean finish that makes someone look good. I don't think either of the matches so far were quite good, but they were fine TV matches, and it's the sort of thing that should be going on with midcard championships. The Stardust match was entertaining enough in a "get all your shit in" sort of way. Maybe around **1/2-3/4, although I really could have done without Cena kicking out of Cross Rhodes, but it is what it is.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Thought the Ambrose match last week was great. This week with Stardust was meh. **-**1/4.

I do like the whole concept and that they can give some guys some spotlight that they wouldn't get otherwise. There's a ton that they can do and I'm actually hoping Cena stays the champion for awhile because of it (or at least until someone I really want to win it off him challenges him).


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao What the hell is going on? The WWE is actually giving lower card tag teams an opportunity to develop their characters? We might experience the unthinkable and get an interesting Kofi Kingston!


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

New Day SNAPPING is pretty cool. Don't get too hopeful, though. I'm sure RAW will suck again in a couple of weeks. It's a miracle that it isn't boring today.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

That New Day interview with Renee made me laugh my ass off. Seriously, what the hell was that? :lol


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

@Brock

Do you by chance have *Tastumi Fujinami vs. Ray Mendoza (8/13/78)*?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Afraid not mate, hardly got anything from the 70's TBH.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

@Yeah1993 You did? LOL... when are you putting up the TLC rantview?

And are doing NXT stuff btw?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rah said:


> @Brock
> 
> Do you by chance have *Tastumi Fujinami vs. Ray Mendoza (8/13/78)*?


I might, lemme look around. I hope I fucking do. I want to do pre-80s next.



ATF said:


> @Yeah1993 You did? LOL... when are you putting up the TLC rantview?
> 
> And are doing NXT stuff btw?


I've watched at least Jericho/Bryan. If there are other matches anybody wanted to recommend I'd watch em. Regal probably did something good on it.

I was actually going to ask people if I should include FCW. There's a Danielson/Low Ki that I saw back when it happened that I'm positive would make the list. Is there anything else worth it? 


I've got TLC on disc now, I can finish it off within a week. I might not, but I _can_.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If you're doing pre-80's, you better do hundreds of Andre The Giant.

As far as NXT is concerned, I remember quite a few William Regal matches including one against Bryan; I remember AJ Lee vs Naomi being quite impressive; and I remember that guys like Christian, Matt Hardy, Chris Masters and Goldust wrestled there at some point too.

And for FCW, well, Low Ki had a shit ton of stuff against Justin Gabriel, and Rollins made his debut that year too iirc. You could include it in, why not? It's a WWE product.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I have somewhat shat on that Harts/Steiners tag in the past. Nowhere near the best tag match of all time or anything, not even the best tag that year in WWF alone. In fact, when did it actually take place? Was it recorded in Jan of 94? If so, it's not even the best tag in WWF for that month .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I bloody knew it was you Cal.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Who else but Quagmire Cal?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What Jan '94 match do you consider better? A 1-2-3 Kid & Marty Jannetty one? RR?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Both 123-Kid & Marty Vs Quebecers matches on Raw, and the Harts/Quebecers RR match. Off the top of my head.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> Who else but Quagmire Cal?


That fucking smiley is priceless dude :lmao

I haven't even seen this Harts/Steiners tag everyone is so hot and bothered about. I'll have to fix that. Not having seen it, for me the best tag in WWE history is that Kliq tag, Michaels/Diesel vs Razor/Kid. Just beats out the PowerTrip/Ben & Jerry tag as my all time fave for the company. Of course, there are probably 5-6 WCW tags I would say smoke those matches, but that's because WCW from 1988-1994 actually gave a damn about their tag team division and it was actually the focal point of the show at different points. For instance, it wasn't Rude/Steamboat or Sting/Cactus Jack main eventing Beach Blast 1992, it was a Steiners/MVC tag, same deal with the COTC held the month before. And Saturday Nights Main Event could generally be counted on to have an excellent tag closing the show.

It's amazing how in 2015 WWE still hasn't realized that tag team wrestling deserves a prominent spot on every card and deserves to have a significant portion of the shows dedicated to advancing story lines and developing characters. Every single time they have show legitimate interest in tag teams and dedicated a good portion of the show to the tag team scene (SD! in 2002-2003, Raw/Smackdown in 2006 & 2009, Raw/Smackdown in 2013-half of 2014) it's been a raging success and fans have clammored for more. But nope, as soon as it gets really hot, they split the most popular teams and break off into a singles feud and leave the rest of the teams to the wasteland. Ugh.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Not a fan of the Orton/Ryback vs. Show/Kane/Rollins classics ?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

20,000th post, finally.

I'm keen to watch Brock/Cena from 2003 and compare it to 2012 onwards.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> It's amazing how in 2015 WWE still hasn't realized that tag team wrestling deserves a prominent spot on every card and deserves to have a significant portion of the shows dedicated to advancing story lines and developing characters. Every single time they have show legitimate interest in tag teams and dedicated a good portion of the show to the tag team scene (SD! in 2002-2003, Raw/Smackdown in 2006 & 2009, Raw/Smackdown in 2013-half of 2014) it's been a raging success and fans have clammored for more. But nope, as soon as it gets really hot, they split the most popular teams and break off into a singles feud and leave the rest of the teams to the wasteland. Ugh.


That thought process is not going to change as long as Vince is around. He never really saw tag team wrestling as much of a draw, which is a direct contrast to his father and grandfather who sold out the east coast thanks to teams like The Wild Samoans and Rocca/Perez. The ongoing rumor is that Vince doesn't like the concern of one member of the tag team getting injured, thus leaving the other member high and dry according to his eyes.

It really is a shame though because a strong tag division is a big reason for why so many guys in WWE's history eventually went on to become main eventers. It's also an easy and efficient way to get people who have nothing going on at the moment to get on the card. Tag teams can also be easily marketed to kids and they can bring in lots of merchandise money. This isn't even touching our favorite part of a good tag division, which is the match quality. Look at how hyped the crowds were last year when The Usos and The Wyatts were wrestling each other on PPV. It's clear as day that there is a demand for tag teams, but WWE unfortunately isn't the place for it for whatever reason.

I don't recall the tag division being very special in 2006 to be honest. I don't even remember a tag team from RAW other than DX. Heh, I guess the Spirit Squad as well. But that's not much of a division. And as much as I love Londrick, their title reign was unfairly relegated to Velocity. That team could have been very popular if they were branded to be a big deal. Unfortunately, those cruiserweights just had to cruiser-wait.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> That thought process is not going to change as long as Vince is around. He never really saw tag team wrestling as much of a draw, which is a direct contrast to his father and grandfather who sold out the east coast thanks to teams like The Wild Samoans and Rocca/Perez. The ongoing rumor is that Vince doesn't like the concern of one member of the tag team getting injured, thus leaving the other member high and dry according to his eyes.
> 
> It really is a shame though because a strong tag division is a big reason for why so many guys in WWE's history eventually went on to become main eventers. It's also an easy and efficient way to get people who have nothing going on at the moment to get on the card. Tag teams can also be easily marketed to kids and they can bring in lots of merchandise money. This isn't even touching our favorite part of a good tag division, which is the match quality. Look at how hyped the crowds were last year when The Usos and The Wyatts were wrestling each other on PPV. It's clear as day that there is a demand for tag teams, but WWE unfortunately isn't the place for it for whatever reason.
> 
> I don't recall the tag division being very special in 2006 to be honest. I don't even remember a tag team from RAW other than DX. Heh, I guess the Spirit Squad as well. But that's not much of a division. And as much as I love Londrick, their title reign was unfairly relegated to Velocity. That team could have been very popular if they were branded to be a big deal. Unfortunately, those cruiserweights just had to cruiser-wait.



No I don't recall it being really strong in 2006, either. I was just referencing the DX/McMahons/Rated RKO deal and how fans really loved that stuff for the most part and seem to remember it fondly. I myself have made it pretty clear how I feel about DX in 2006, Rated RKO wasn't too bad though and Edge/Orton seemed to have decent chemistry together. Just using that year as an example of a year where tag teams were the focal point of the show for stretches of time and people responded really well to it. Like, is it so crazy to believe that if fans enjoy watching 2 singles stars join up and wrestle in tag teams, that they would also enjoy watching 2 guys in an actual tag team wrestle. It's like tag teams can only be used in the main event when it's leading to a break up angle, or its a reunion of a former popular tag team. Just doesn't make a ton of sense to me, especially when you consider how much talent on the roster is just doing fuck all right now. Why not approach say 10 guys on the roster who aren't doing anything, tell them to talk amongst themselves and pair up, come up with a team name and possibly a gimmick, and let them loose to challenge Cesaro/Kidd for the tag teams. The team that gets the most over while they are holding a #1 contenders tournament (double elimination) gets the shot. Boom. Opponents other than the New Day or Usos for Tyson/Kidd. Done deal.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

look out for the rko


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

R-Truth and Fandango = the next GOAT tag team


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Anyone want to give me a list of some great NXT matches from this year? Need to catch up on those


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Smitty said:


> Anyone want to give me a list of some great NXT matches from this year? Need to catch up on those


Hideo Itami vs Tyler Breeze (airdate - 1/21)
Charlotte(c) vs Sasha Banks vs Bayley vs Becky Lynch - TakeOver: Rival
Sami Zayn(c) vs Kevin Owens - TakeOver: Rival
Kevin Owens vs Adrian Neville - (airdate - 2/18)
Finn Balor vs The Brian Kendrick (airdate - 2/25)
Sasha Banks(c) vs Charlotte (airdate - 3/4)
Kevin Owens vs Alex Riley (airdate - 3/18)
Kevin Owens(c) vs Finn Balor (airdate - 3/25)

So, yeah, not exactly a lot of depth from the year. P. much keeping it w/the same few people. Naming Owens who's been cutting loose in most of his matches. I'm not gaga over the Zayn match, purely b/c I disliked the finish. But the majority is strong & still something you should at least check out. The Itami vs Breeze match is solid iirc & been the only watchable singles match he's had since showing up. As far as "really good/great" goes, I'd only give that title to:

1) Kevin Owens(c) vs Finn Balor (best match on the year for NXT)
2) Kevin Owens vs Adrian Neville
3) Sasha Banks(c) vs Charlotte

While the rest are good/solid/worth a look, etc.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Couldnt get into Balor/Owens, IDK but something balor was doing IDK if was his selling or early movements bothered me

The Hart/Steiners tag is pretty good stuff, just put it on. I'd place the KLIQ tag well above it though from that year


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Don't forget to watch Lucha Underground, Smitty/Skins/cjack/anyone else.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only if you're drunk.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Alright as I mentioned earlier, I can't focus on anything or be set with anything. 

I still haven't watched anything from the revamped NXT, only glimpses of short clips, none of the great matches discussed on this site for a while now. 

I just turned on the WWE network and have no idea what's on. It's got "countdown" in the right corner, and they have superstars talking about Rock/Cena.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Uploaded this:

*The Shield vs Daniel Bryan, Kane & Randy Orton -(WWE House Show 06.02.2013)*

x2m2dnb

Excellent quality to boot.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Disappointing that Cena is facing Rusev at Extreme Rules.

When they brought Rusev back out after WM, I liked that they just had him squashing people again. I thought maybe they'd ignore the Cena stuff, and just build Rusev back up again. The way it's supposed to be done.

Rusev has gone off script & reacted to situations in a way that I'd think would impress Vince (the flag mishap, and yelling at the audience when they wanted in on his WM decision). I thought maybe Vince realized what he had with Rusev, and wasn't gonna treat Rusev as the typical guy who's fed to Cena is treated like.

I got my hopes up.  Really wish they'd keep him the fuck away from Cena, and just continue to rebuild him.

That is assuming it's another Cena win, which hey, maybe they'll swerve us....


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Hideo Itami vs Tyler Breeze (airdate - 1/21)
> Charlotte(c) vs Sasha Banks vs Bayley vs Becky Lynch - TakeOver: Rival
> Sami Zayn(c) vs Kevin Owens - TakeOver: Rival
> Kevin Owens vs Adrian Neville - (airdate - 2/18)
> ...



Awesome, going to watch these soon :mark:


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> Disappointing that Cena is facing Rusev at Extreme Rules.
> 
> When they brought Rusev back out after WM, I liked that they just had him squashing people again. I thought maybe they'd ignore the Cena stuff, and just build Rusev back up again. The way it's supposed to be done.
> 
> ...


Don't agree that they need to build him up again, he's lost once in a year, he's still one of the most credible guys on the roster.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I've been hearing so much about LU but I never cared to check it out until I realized guys like Ricochet, Morrisson and Alberto (?) work for the company. I don't know why they'll rename them considering those are pretty big names and had I known those guys were working there I would have checked it out a long time ago. Also, the name Lucha Underground is a pretty big turn off (for me at least) but then I realized all styles are worked. 

So yeah, I'm basically waiting until a season 1 pack goes up or a DVD is released to check it out. Couldn't be bothered to download a bunch of episodes.

Great upload @Brock (Y) Was that on the Shield DVD?


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> I've been hearing so much about LU but I never cared to check it out until I realized guys like Ricochet, Morrisson and Alberto (?) work for the company. I don't know why they'll rename them considering those are pretty big names and had I known those guys were working there I would have checked it out a long time ago. Also, the name Lucha Underground is a pretty big turn off (for me at least) but then I realized all styles are worked.


John Morrison and Alberto Del Río are trademarks owned by the WWE. In Ricochet's case, I don't know.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Watched Harts/Steiners WrestleFest 1994. Man, what an excellent bout. They really could have turned in one of the best tag matches ever if they didn't have 3 things that were totally out of their control working against them: 1.) the finish absolutely sucked 2.) the commentary was horrible, Gorilla and whoever the other guy was spent the entire time critiquing the wrestlers performance and questioning their logic instead of just calling the damn match and 3.) the crowd absolutely sucked. These guys were just tearing it up and working this amazing tag match and all you can hear is crickets. Really takes you out of it.

That said, man what a match. I loved the whole opening mat work portion, felt totally organic and real and made perfect sense in this face/face type match. Owen especially really shined with some really slick and fluid counters. These are 4 experienced pros just going out to prove they are better than anyone. The match continuously escalates and I loved the subtle heelishness that Bret exhibited at different times. I also loved how they didn't rush anything, they took their time and built the match layer upon layer which led to the climax happening at just the right time. Unfortunately that's also when the match went off the rails, as the double count out/extended brawl just killed the ending and left me with a bad taste in my mouth. I get it, it's 2 baby face teams and they can't have a clean finish. But why not use all that time they spent brawling and stretch the match out even longer, then have Bret or Owen roll one of the Steiners up for a pin but have both guys shoulders down so it ends in a draw? That would have still given us a pinfall finish and it wouldn't have hurt either team.

Either way, that was an awesome tag match and I'm certainly glad I watched it. Shame these two teams didn't work together any more.

I think I might have been sleeping on the Steiners. They are now in 3 of say the top 20 or so tag matches I've ever seen. The Steiners/MVC COTC XIX match which is my favorite tag ever, the Steiners/Vader & Bam Bam NJPW tag, and now this Steiners/Harts tag. What are some other great Steiners tags? They had another excellent bout with Doc and Gordy at Beach Blast 1992, but other than that I'm drawing blanks on what other great tags they have been a part of.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Steiners/Nasty Boys from Havoc '90 is amazing. Steiners/Quebecers 9/13/93 too.

edit - Steiners/Fujinami and Iizuka and Steiners/Sting and Luger are well worth it, too. I think they're overrated, but still worth it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Is that the one that made the Hart Foundation set?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Steiners/Fujinami & Iizuka is a surreal experience. Steiners act like unprofessional pieces of dog crap and stiff the hell out of their opponents while Fujinami and Iizuka do crazy shit that WCW crowds were not ready for. The match was a mess, but for whatever reason it was a great visual experience. Never seen a match like it before.

Here's an article published in 1992 from PWTorch regarding that match. You should definitely watch/rewatch it cjack as well as read this pretty hilarious yet intense article as well.



Spoiler: altaria



"The Steiner Stiffs"
Originally published: June 4, 1992
Pro Wrestling Torch Weekly newsletter #177

"If it ain't stiff, it ain't worth a fuck."
-Stiff Records.

"That Steiners match was something, wasn't it?"
-Bill Watts the night of WrestleWar.

As it happens, I was ringside for the Steiners match against Tatsumi Fujinami & Takayuki Iizuka. It certainly was something. In fact, it was quite a spectacle. As stiff as it may have seemed on television, it was absolutely brutal from fifteen feet away. It was one of the most compelling pro wrestling matches I have ever witnessed. It was also a complete and utter disgrace - a total exhibition of the qualities that make the Steiner Brothers one of the most unprofessional acts in the business today.

It started from the beginning of the match. Scott goes for the blockbuster suplex on Fujinami and blows the spot. Iizuka runs to give Scott another chance to hit the move. Steiner does it correctly this time, but he is still a little embarrassed and pissed. So he pops to his feet and levels Fujinami with a clothesline, holding absolutely nothing back. Fujinami was obviously unprepared for the blast and went down hard. He tagged out and was so out of it that he could barely stand up in the corner.

It certainly did not end there. Iizuka was obviously injured after Rick Steiner accidentally screwed up an admittedly innovative double-team move and landed on the man's face. Iizuka was obviously in a great deal of pain and bleeding the hard way from the mouth. It very well could have been a serious injury judging from the fall and the wrestler's reaction to it.

That made no impression on the Steiners. Rick and Scott continued to pull absolutely no punches or kicks as they battered and pummeled both opponents unmercifully. Being talented stud athletes themselves, Iizuka and in particular Fujinami, retaliated with stiff, hard blows. These blows, however, were delivered in a professional manner to opponents who were ready for them, not cheap shots to wrestlers who left themselves open and defenseless. The Steiners did not allow either man to stay on offense for very long and started their out of control punches and kicks as soon as they got the opportunity.

Both of these clowns had no respect for the fact that, like themselves, Fujinami and Iizuka are gifted athletes who make a living night in and night out as professional wrestlers. Both have made every sacrifice in pursuit of excellence in their craft. Tatsumi Fujinami is a legend in the professional wrestling business on a par in his country with a Nick Bockwinkle or a Ric Flair here and yet he received no respect from either brother. Apparently the Steiner Brothers could not have cared less. What did Rick or Scott think would happen to their opponents after they hurt them? The answer is obvious.

The Steiners don't think.

Scott Steiner certainly did not when, in front of this pay-per-view audience, many of them kids who paid twenty-five dollars a pop to watch them, he screamed, "Fuck this shit!" before powerbombing Iizuka.

Gee, Scott - Fuck what shit? It was YOUR team that refused to cooperate in wrestling a match that brought the best out of all the participants. It was YOUR brother who kept aiming fists and boots at Iizuka's face even after the injury. It is YOU and your brother who have spent the last six months making guaranteed money and dogging it in the ring.

It has become a familiar sight on WCW television shows to see Rick and Scott amble their way to the ring for a match with their heads down as though they wish they could be anywhere else. If at any particular time they happen to be holding some championship, odds are the brothers are dragging the belts behind them like they smelled bad.

One of two things generally happen during these squash matches. If the jobbers are lucky, Rick will just aimlessly screw around in the ring until the finish. If not, and the Steiners are mad for any reason, someone is likely to get hurt. A poorly trained, out of shape job boy is in real danger if he blows a move during one of these matches.

I am not naive when it comes to this sort of thing. Anyone who has attended television tapings for WCW on a regular basis for the past several years has seen any number of no-name wrestlers get the crap beaten out of them by more established stars. I never saw a live squash match involving Kevin Sullivan, for one, where he did not legitimately beat up his hapless opponent.

In many ways, the destruction of jobbers by someone like Sullivan is understandable. Before the Titan expansion and the existence of newsletters such as this one, the pro wrestling business was essentially closed to outsiders. Anyone wanting to become a wrestler had to get by a stringent set of requirements before they could even become trained. Guys like Billy Robinson or Jack Brisco might take an aspiring lug and twist him into a knot to prove that the candidate had either the guts or the physical prowess necessary to participate in the ring. That level of pride has for the most part been lost in a business where promoters try to take unathletic steroid fed clods and immediately proclaim them "stars".

It has been lost where anyone, no matter how short, or fat, or out of shape, or lacking in wrestling skills, with a few bucks in his pocket can find a school to "train" him. The proliferation of independent promotions has undoubtedly given talented young wrestlers a place to learn their craft, but they have also provided a lot of guys who did nothing more than buy a pair of boots a chance to think that they are actually wrestlers. It must be frustrating for a lot of the old guard in the business to watch this. Someone like Kevin Sullivan, who has to battle to continue to stay in the mainstream, might be expected to feel some bitterness. Sometimes that frustration can spill out into the ring. It is hard to feel very sympathetic when an unprepared, out of shape clod takes an ass whipping in that circumstance.

But what do the Steiners have to feel frustrated about? They couldn't care less about wrestling traditions. They make over a quarter of a million dollars a year in guaranteed money. They are promoted as the top tag team act in the company and never have to do jobs. They seem to have a self-enforced policy of only doing jobs to fellow fan-favorite and pal Sting, a policy that makes no sense for any number of reasons. The matches with Sting & Luger and Sting & Muta showed that the Steiners certainly can have good matches without hurting their opponents, when they feel like it.

At least in the match at WrestleWar they were pumped up and trying. Most of the matches since Scott's bicep injury have seen both brothers at quarter speed or less. The feud with Eaton and Anderson was a flop in large part because of the Steiners' indifferent attitude in the ring, although to be fair it should be pointed out that Eaton and Anderson never clicked as a team and that the television supporting the feud was the usual incoherent mess. Still, this feud should have at least produced a series of good matches. That never happened because of the brothers' unprofessional attitudes and lazy ring work.

Those unprofessional attitudes may manifest themselves in yet another area. David Shults was quoted in several media outlets during the TitanGate scandal to the effect that "you can train, say your prayers, and take all the vitamins you want, but if you want 24 inch arms, you have to take steroids." Scott Steiner is beginning to look like the Toxic Avenger without the green skin. His bicep injury which put him out for several months and cost the company money and momentum, is an injury that occurs more easily to steroid users. Coincidentally, unemployed moron Sid Eudy suffered the same injury at one point.

The Steiner Brothers work for Turner Broadcasting which has an official anti-steroid policy. As employees of that company, they have an obligation to abide by company procedures. There is no real reason for the two of them to look that pumped up. The extra muscle slows them down and makes them more prone to injury. It also makes a lie out of WCW's public service announcements and policy to have them at the top of the card.

It is up to company management, Bill Watts in particular, to handle that problem, one that certainly transcends this act alone. It is the Steiners' ring style that rankles in a personal way. The Steiners can stop potatoing their opponents now. Some fans may look at their brutal style and think that it is proof of the boys' toughness. Those fans are wrong.

The Steiners' potato style is proof of their cowardice. Insiders like to speculate on the authentic toughness of guys like John Tenta, Haku, or Steve Williams. They are least earned that rap outside of the ring in "legitimate" ways. Real toughness and "shooter" reputations are beside the point of professional wrestling.

The idea behind professional wrestling is to produce a legitimate-seeming, entertaining, but ultimately inauthentic fight which the audience can suspend their disbelief during, if only for a while, and enjoy. All the participants have to cooperate in order to produce a good pro wrestling match. A stiff, professional style produces the best kind of matches. When Ric Flair laid in those chops to Ricky Steamboat's chest, no one hit harder or looked more realistic. The difference between that and what the Steiners do is that Steamboat was prepared for those chops and Flair sold his stuff equally as well. It is the height of cowardice to hit someone full force in the face who is leaving himself wide open for what they expect to be a pulled punch. It proves nothing about the Steiners' "toughness". If they wanted to fight Fujinami and Iizuka, great, fight them head up and go to jail or the hospital afterwards. The Steiners for some reason do not seem anxious to do that, though.

Wrestlers have to put an enormous amount of trust in their opponents. The Steiners spit on that trust on this night. If Terry Gordy and Steve Williams end up hurting these guys when they are forced to protect themselves, I for one won't shed a tear.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Oh fuck, I meant Steiners/Sasaki & Hase. The Fujinami/Iizuka tag is not overrated at all.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I was about to say I thought you were completely pro-the Fujinami/Iizuka tag. I really dig the Sasaki & Hase ones too. But I love watching the Steiners a crapton. I even enjoy the BATB '97 match vs Muta & Chono more than most. Steiners vs Hase & Chono from a Clash is quality too.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I like the Sasaki/Hase tag too but IIRC it was a Dave Meltzer favourite or something and obv his opinion used to rub off on everybody so it was a "best thing ever" for more than a couple people.

You seen the Steiners/Quebecers I mentioned above?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That stellar one from RAW that had the championship switch? If that one, then absolutely.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Great upload @Brock (Y) Was that on the Shield DVD?


Na, i had it on a custom Shield comp. 

---------------------------
Steiners/Nasty Boys from Havoc '90 is still one of my most treasured tag matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Havoc '90 is a treasure for great tag matches. Ignoring the putrid Freebirds vs Jay Youngblood's shitty kids, there are Midnights vs Morton/Rich, Flair/Arn vs Doom, AND the seemingly loved all the way around (yay) Steiners vs Nasty Boys match.

It's a good one.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Steiners vs Fujinami/Iizuka (Wrestlerwar 92) is another favorite of mine, but yeah, Scotty does fuck up the young Iizuka, was he just pissed at him or something?


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

I watched on Tuesday WM 29 and think Taker/Punk is a five star classic, so that brings me to this question, what's Taker's best WM match?

For me:

1. Vs Michaels, 26
2. Vs Punk, 29
3. Vs Michaels, 25
4. Vs Batista, 23
5. Vs Triple H, 17

Any thoughts on this?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HBK (WM 25). Hands down the best imo.

I do love the Batista match though, the whole feud in fact. The first half of 2007 Taker was is amazing shape too.


----------



## Alex (Feb 27, 2010)

Fighter Daron said:


> I watched on Tuesday WM 29 and think Taker/Punk is a five star classic, so that brings me to this question, what's Taker's best WM match?
> 
> For me:
> 
> ...


I don't think Undertaker vs. CM Punk was nearly good enough to be considered a 5 star classic. If there is one match on Undertaker's list of Wrestlemania matches that could be considered close to, if not, a 5 star classic, it would be against Michaels at Wrestlemania 25. Everything else is a step below, at least.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

Uhm...Yeah, I realize that's a dumb question, HBK vs Taker 25 is widely recognized as one of the three best matches in WM history(with Austin/Hart and Steamboat/Savage), but it isn't the best even from those two for me, but just my thoughts.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It's only their third best match together imo. HIAC, then WM 26, and then WM 25. All are ***** classics too. And I adore their GZ and Casket matches as well, around ****1/4 for them. Some of the best chemistry together ever.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)




----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Best Taker WM Matches 

1: vs HBK WM 25 (*****) 
2: Vs HBK WM 26 (****3/4) 
3: vs Batista WM 23 (****3/4) 
4: vs Orton WM 21 (****1/2) 
5: vs Punk WM 29 (****1/2) 

What a GOAT :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

1) vs :hbk2, WM 25
2) vs :hbk2, WM 26
3) vs unk, WM 29
4) vs :HHH2, WM 28
5) vs INSERT BATISTA SMILEY, WM 23


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

whats the best Taker/Batista match? It's almost 3am here, just looking for something before I head to sleep.

I'll need a youtube or something, no longer have the network.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well for me its a toss up between their WM 23 match and Cyber Sunday 2007 match. Might give the nod to WM 23 overall. Shouldn't be too hard to find online.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Funnily enough, I've never seen the Cyber Sunday one. Back then I watched wrestling ever so often and watched Wrestlemania. I was going to watch the whole Cyber Sunday show the other day but didn't.

Cyber Sunday it is. (Y)


----------



## Paul Rudd (Oct 23, 2010)

I'd take the Punk/Taker match over any of the HBK or HHH ones. Maybe I'm just bias because I love Punk, but I'm also not a fan of a lot of Shawns post '07 stuff. The HBK/Taker matches are certainly good, just not GOAT level IMO.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

For me, the whole Batista/Undertaker is the best rivalry in the WWE since I don't know when, it's just fun, they had Smack Down! to play like they will without restrictions and they have awesome chemistry together, they seemed like worlds colliding, my favorite match from those two may well be their Last Man Standing at Backlash 2007.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> Steiners vs Fujinami/Iizuka (Wrestlerwar 92) is another favorite of mine, but yeah, Scotty does fuck up the young Iizuka, was he just pissed at him or something?


I think that's just kind of how Rick and especially Scott were. Foley says in his doc that his tryout match with WCW was a tag, and when he got to the arena and saw his name on the board with some random jobber against the Steiners, he said he got a horrible sinking feeling in his stomach. The Steiners were known for having world class tag matches when facing other top teams, but they were really really brutal on undercard guys. Mick thought he was surely not gonna get hired because he doubted he'd get even 1 offensive move in, but Kevin Sullivan and Jim Cornette saved him because Sullivan heard Cornette rave about the crazy elbow drop on concrete that Mick was doing and wanted to see it. So he told Mick "I don't care how bad Ricky and Scotty beat you up, after the match, you drop that elbow on your partner." And that's how he got hired 

For what it's worth, the British Bulldogs were the same way, a lot of big muscled up guys back then liked to prove their toughness in some stupid way by beating up on job guys. I've got nothing against being stiff, I like my wrestling to be snug and realistic, but only when it's consensual between two guys that have mutual respect for each other, or when it's two guys who legitimately hate each other and both go in knowing that shit is on (like in that amazing Duggan/Sawyer brawl from Mid South). It's not okay when some guy is leaving himself wide open for you thinking he's having a normal match and you take liberties with him and fuck him up while he's just trying to work. You can squash a jobber and have your shit look good without legitimately injuring him or throwing sacks of potatoes.

That said I'm still gonna watch that match, it's friggin Fujinami, dude can take care of himself I think, I'm excited to see it.



Fighter Daron said:


> I watched on Tuesday WM 29 and think Taker/Punk is a five star classic, so that brings me to this question, what's Taker's best WM match?
> 
> For me:
> 
> ...



Man, I'd guess it's still WM 25. I'll never forget the feeling of watching that live, it was surreal. One of those times you feel like you're watchinf the greatest match ever. But it has sort of fallen off on multiple rematches for me, as has WM 26. The true test of greatness for me is when I can watch a match 5 times and end up liking it more and more with each rewatch. That's how Hart/Austin, Mankind/HBK, Eddie/JBL, Angle/Austin, and Finlay/Benoit are for me. I've watched each of those matches a minimum of 5 times and I love them more now than the first time I saw them. WM 25 HBK/Taker just keeps dropping and dropping. I can't say it's not the 5-star Classic everyone claims it is, I still remember the feeling of being almost drunk with excitement when it ended, but it's not even one of my top 75 favorite matches to watch anymore. A lot of that has to do with Shawn and my distaste for his hammy over acting, Taker was still the fucking man every time I saw it, especially the different points when he chooses to show emotion, it comes across as so genuine, the complete opposite of how Shawn acts.

The tombstone kick out will always rank high up there in the pantheon of greatest false finishes ever, it might even be the best because of JR's Classic call "I JUST HAD AN OUT OF BODY EXPERIENCE!" coupled with that look of utter shock Taker was displaying. That's the first time that was ever done, and it'll always be special. As was Taker damn near killing himself but someone staggering back into the ring before the 10 count to continue.

Still don't think that match is as good as their HiaC match. THAT right there is a perfect fucking match. It doesn't get any better than that, Shawns character was 10 times better back then and Taker was still a total bad ass like he always is. Nothing will ever beat the SCM follow by Taker no selling and Shawn shitting a brick and hauling ass the fuck out of that cell. That was the perfect moment that told the entire story of the match. Shawn done gone and pissed off the wrong guy, and no matter what his ass is gonna get kicked and kicked severely. It's gonna take an act of God for Taker to stop beating the shit out of him, that's why Takers methodical pace was so perfect because you could just feel the enjoyment he was getting beating Shawns brains in. Well that's the story as I saw it, anyway


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What's the date of the Steiners/Money Inc cage match? Never seen it myself, not sure if I have it or not, but think I've ways read positivities about it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Well Steiners/Fujinami & Iizuka was freaking sweet. I get why you said it was weird to watch, it almost seemed like the Steiners were getting heat on the Japanese guys at times. If that team had been an American heel team, I'm almost positive that match would have gotten them baby face cheers. Like if it were say a heel Flair and heel Pillman vs the Steiners, cause even I was feeling really bad for poor Pink Trunks by the end of it. He just got straight guzzled at different times.

I do think Wade Keller was over exaggerating a bit in that write up. The Steiners did sell for the Japanese guys, and those clothes lines were no worse than the ones I've seen Hansen and JBL throw at different times. The only parts I take issue with were where it looked like the Steiners German suplexed Fujinami before he was ready to actually take the bump, and Rick definitely held on for too long and should have released earlier. Also Scotty was tossing Iizuka around like a rag doll and not letting him get set to take a proper bump.

Other than that, nothing they did was so heinous to me. I mean damn, they had one hell of a fucking match! Fujinami and Iizuka were not buried by any means by what the Steiners did, they took their licks and fought right back, and the Steiners sold for both guys at separate times, although mostly it was for Fujinami, Iizuka the poor guy didn't really get to do all that much other than get his ass kicked. That's why he was there though, so Fujinami didn't have to get pinned and so the Steiners had someone to toss around. I really really enjoyed this match. Could have been even better if they had worked with each other better but the fact that at certain times it turned into a borderline shoot made it more memorable.

Steiners/Nasties HH 90' was fantastic as well. The Nasty's can friggin brawl when they have their heads on straight. Trying to have a standard wrestling match with them is a lost cause, but if you play to their strengths, which is chaotic fisticuffs, you can certainly turn in some serious quality. That's what we got here, the classic sloppy offense and risky weapons shots from Sags and Knobbs, coupled with the high impact, devastating offense of the Steiners. Quite the potent combo. The ring though, man whoever the fuck thought it was a good idea to have Orange ropes with black tape, a red canvas, and a blue and yellow apron needs to have their heads examined. Ugliest damn thing I've ever seen :lmao

Steiners vs Fujinami/Iizuka WW 92' ****1/4
Steiners vs Nasties HH 90' ****


----------



## speedkills (Jul 21, 2010)

Brock said:


> What's the date of the Steiners/Money Inc cage match? Never seen it myself, not sure if I have it or not, but think I've ways read positivities about it.


I know it was on the Summerslam special that aired on USA a week before the PPV. I Don't have an exact date. And yes it is an excellent match.

edit: Summerslam Spectacular


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Watched Harts/Steiners WrestleFest 1994. Man, what an excellent bout. They really could have turned in one of the best tag matches ever if they didn't have 3 things that were totally out oftheir control working against them: 1.) the finish absolutely sucked 2.) the commentary was horrible, Gorilla and whoever the other guy was spent the entire time critiquing the wrestlers performance and questioning their logic instead of just calling the damn match and 3.) the crowd absolutely sucked. These guys were just tearing it up and working this amazing tag match and all you can hear is crickets. Really takes you out of it.
> 
> That said, man what a match.


Agree with you about Gorilla. "An abdominal stretch is not gonna get him!" STFU. I remember Meltzer or Keller said that a lot of wrestlers from that era hated his commentary, exactly for that reason. They felt that he always would undermine everyone, in an effort to show that he was the smartest man in the room.

I've never really felt that way about him except for in that match, though. He was annoying in that one.

As for the crowd, I've got to find out exactly what Wrestlefest is, but I was under the impression that it was just a big house show, designed for DVD. So for a non-television audience, I thought that they were pretty good, actually. The Steiners got a great reaction, even though Bret was the former world champion in that match. I know they were in the NWA/WCW's old neck of the woods, so that explains it, but it was nice to see both teams get good reactions.



Hayley Seydoux said:


> Is that the one that made the Hart Foundation set?


The Hart Family DVD, yeah. You saw it? If so, what did you think?

Agree with your Steiners love, btw. Excited to see some more of their Japan matches, including the ones you guys are talking about. Something I've been saving.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah. Haven't seen it. Been debating buying the set - in large part - to own it. Think it had some other stuff on it too I was wanting to own, but it could have been my mind to spend $8 for one match and a doc.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao We live in a world where Big E Langston is now more entertaining than the likes of Kazuchika Okada, Virus, and Mark Henry. This new New Day gimmick is hilarious. First half of Smackdown was good, second half was meh. Why does Cameron still have a job?

How do people feel about the Batista/Undertaker cage match? I've tried to get into it, but I feel like I'm forcing myself to like it every time I watch it. I don't think it captured the magic that their other matches had. Something about the cage structure interfered with their all out brawls they would have. And that ending was not good.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

NXT had some fun short matches this week, wish Balor/Itami was longer though


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I just watched the following matches:

Batista (c) vs Undertaker (Survivor Series 2007)
Kurt Angle (c) vs Stone Cold Steve Austin (Raw, 2001) - REGAL
Kurt Angle vs Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit (Wrestlemania 2000)

has anyone got a single link to watch Batista/Undertaker from Cyber Sunday 2007?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Taker's best WM matches? That's kind of tough b/c there are a few where I only like Taker in the matches and didn't really care all that much for his opponent. IE two of the Triple H matches (17 & 28, b/c LOL 27), & vs Michaels @ 26. Edge was a bit behind in the 24 match, but Taker was so damn strong in it I am absolutely a fan. Helped that story move along well. Too bad the finish was w/Hell's Gate, instead of the tombstone.

vs Punk (WM 29)
vs Batista (WM 23)
vs Michaels (WM 25)
vs Orton (WM 21)
vs Kane (WM 14)

Off the top of my head. Top ten is probably p. easy. b/c he's had at least 10 matches that are really good/great from Mania. _(vs Flair, vs Diesel, vs Show & A-Train + some of the others I mentioned where he was a one man show)_


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Everyone's top 5 Taker's list from mania, Hello DVD thread circa 2013

for me

Michaels 25
Michaels 26
Punk 29
Batista 27
Trips 28


The Orton one has gone down for me in recent years. I like 28 still and remember when I thought it was the greatest thing ever


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Of all the continued gags from the past, no doubt the UNDERTAKER WRESTLEMANIA TOP LIST is the exception to carry on.

tbhayley


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Actually forgot about the WM 28 match when I did my list earlier 

Watching/reviewing all of the Extreme Rules shows to get ready for this years but the first match on ER 2009 was an awful 4 way that even Regal couldnt make great then they announced CENA VS SHOW IN A SUBMISSION MATCH for later, so I think I'm going to finish that tomorrow :lmao


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

interested in these, will watch them in an half hour or so


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Just watched Team Hell No/Orton vs the SHIELD from Smackdown where the Shield finally lost in a 6 man tag, was quite awesome. I miss the Shield so much, a badass faction that actually stays strong is just so great and beneficial for the depth of these long shows.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Of all the continued gags from the past, no doubt the UNDERTAKER WRESTLEMANIA TOP LIST is the exception to carry on.
> 
> tbhayley


Yep, I've finally been around here long enough to notice the cyclical nature of this thread, and while I haven't been around long enough to be annoyed by any of it, one thing that Id like to see continued in perpetuity is any discussion of Undertakers best matches, at WM or otherwise. Seeing him this year, even though the match didn't knock my socks off or anything, made me feel overly sentimental in realizing in all likelihood, I will get to see him walk to the ring only one more time, at WM 32. Undertaker is not the guy who will be coming back for random appearances, he won't be on any Summerslam Legends Panels and he won't show up to Tombstone someone who is getting out of line. Only 1 more time to see the most unique and amazing wrestler that ever lived, the only one who makes me feel like an 8 year old child every time I see him make his entrance.

Damn. I just depressed the hell out of myself. Outside of next years match, the only things left to look forward to will be his HoF induction and HOPEFULLY a final, comprehensive, 150+ minute documentary set about his career. Outside of them doing one for Vader or doing a new one for Eddie, there isn't a single wrestler I'd be more excited to see their life and career story told.



KENNY said:


> interested in these, will watch them in an half hour or so


Are you just getting into Finlay and Regal? I watched their Parking Lot Brawl from Nitro yesterday and gosh it's just the best. Even better if you've read Regals book and you realize absolutely nothing at all was gimmicked and they didn't plan a single thing out, they just walked out there and threw down like only those two can. Shame Bischoff was being such a punk and made the camera pull out to a super wide angle shot once the blood started flowing.

Was bored and read this article that caught my eye in Sports Illustrated about Kurt Angle. The highlights:

-Angle had a legit match with Lesnar in a WWE ring before a show, they went full bore at each other and Lesnar wasn't able to score a single point against Angle. Gosh would I pay money to see that :mark:

-Angle called Vince last year and tried to come back to WWE because he wanted to work with Daniel Bryan and Rusev. Vince told him he's no longer in charge of talent and that he needed to speak with Hunter. Hunter blew him off and wouldn't even schedule a meeting with him.

-Angle thinks Eddie Guerrero in his prime was the best wrestler ever, and that he regrets they never got to have the caliber of match they were capable of, because Eddie was broken down. Yea, and because you wrestled like a complete fucking retard at Summerslam 2004 Kurt. But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt here, always makes me smile to hear wrestlers give Eddie props.

-Angle is especially proud of his Royal Rumble match with Benoit because they managed to keep the crowd standing on their feet the entire time while only throwing 1 single punch the entire match.

-Angle claims he's been clean for 2 years.

Has anyone actually watched a Kurt Angle match from the past year or two? I haven't seen a single match of his since 2008, is he just a complete broken down mess now or can he still go at a respectable level in the ring?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

An Undertaker DVD set that is quite raw w/information. :mj2

I'd die.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

> -Angle thinks Eddie Guerrero in his prime was the best wrestler ever, and that he regrets they never got to have the caliber of match they were capable of, because Eddie was broken down. Yea, and because you wrestled like a complete fucking retard at Summerslam 2004 Kurt. But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt here, always makes me smile to hear wrestlers give Eddie props.


Angle said some shit about Eddie "not being able to keep up with him" a while back so I hope this is true.



> -Angle is especially proud of his Royal Rumble match with Benoit because they managed to keep the crowd standing on their feet the entire time while only throwing 1 single punch the entire match.


This got a chuckle out of me in a total nerdy snob way.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Angle about Eddie & SummerSlam 2004 being brought up :lmao


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> but it could have been my mind to spend $8 for one match and a doc.


lol, that's exactly what I did.

Gonna get into NXT via the network. Therefore I'm only watching stuff from February 2014 and on right now.

Could you guys tell me the worthwhile matches from that timeframe?

Are there some on the weekly shows, rather than on just the NXT live shows?

Are the weekly shows worth watching in order, especially at least just the main events?

Please give dates if you can if recommending a match, 'cause when I look that up I tend to get spoiled.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Angle said some shit about Eddie "not being able to keep up with him" a while back so I hope this is true.
> 
> 
> 
> This got a chuckle out of me in a total nerdy snob way.


Here is the article if you have interest in that sort of thing: http://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2015/04/08/kurt-angle-wwe-tna-brock-lesnar

I didn't know Angle said that Eddie couldn't keep up with him before. That's actually true, honestly, nobody can keep up with Angle when he's in full coke head mode, hitting the Angle slam 5 times a match, countering every single move into the Ankle lock, and sprinting full speed to give guys a belly to belly off the top rope when he's supposed to be selling. I don't know if it's humanly possible to keep up with that version of Angle. You can't just grab a hold on him to get him to slow his role, he'll just counter it into an Ankle lock. 

I will say though, they DID manage to have 1 pretty fucking amazing match. The Eddie vs Angle 2/3 Falls match on 9/2/04 always brings a smile to my face. This was Eddie at his baby face character best, and Angle was playing the heel role I actually really enjoy. If you haven't seen it you ought to check it out, it's impossible to watch it without getting a shit eating grin on your face watching Eddie with his antics: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x10stdo_eddie-guerrero-vs-kurt-angle-9-2-2004_sport



Hayley Seydoux said:


> An Undertaker DVD set that is quite raw w/information. :mj2
> 
> I'd die.


I swear to God, if they do the Taker doc like they did the Savage doc, I'm done. I'm out. Peace. Either my head will explode or you'll see me on the news after being arrested for waving a gun around Titan Towers. A Taker doc should be literally impossible to fuck up, but I DID say the same thing about a Savage doc and they managed to make me feel like someone pissed in my Cheerios after watching it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Interesting that you mention that about the 2/3 falls match, b/c iirc that is the match that Angle was most pissed about having w/Eddie and they had a fight backstage following it.






Wait, nevermind. It was their lumberjack match. Still, this video comes to mind on this subject.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Yeah, Taker's doc has got to be awesome


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I always thought that Angle's sprint to the top rope was an adrenaline rush, not a lack of selling. It's why Michaels' knip ups never bothered me either.

As for Eddie, I think that you guys aren't taking it the right way. I saw an interview with Kurt about this, and he said that Eddie didn't even want to be touched at that time. He was in that much pain. That's what Kurt meant, as well as Eddie being out of it mentally at the time as well, iirc.

Neville sounds nothing like I had imagined at all, btw. Expected a much higher-pitched voice, and for some reason I thought he was Irish.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Without the use of star ratings, Taker vs. Punk is not only my favorite streak match, but honestly one of my favorite Undertaker matches of all time (same can be said for Punk). Punk's performance is just incredible all the way through (even before the match starts) and those nearfalls near the end are fantastic. THAT URN SHOT. :mark: THAT GTS INTO THE TOMBSTONE :mark: THAT SHANE'O MAC ELBOW :mark:

Haven't seen Taker/Michaels from 26 since it aired believe it or not, so I remember almost nothing from that other than a moonsault.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The other two things are a tombstone on the outside & a jumping tombstone and that's about the gist of it.

+ great Undertaker facial expressions.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Just watched the Orton/Rollins match for the first time since attending live. The match, I thought came across better on tv. Got me excited for the title match at ER.. ***1/2 at the very least. Match starts slow but gets quicker, quicker before a very good middle part and a spectacular finishing sequence.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

While there were some cool counters and sequences, I don't necessarily think Orton & Rollins showed they have great chemistry together. Part of that could've been how the match was structured and how much J&J got involved, but the story behind their rivalry and just the idea of a TOTALLY fresh WWE Title scene really makes me interested in their match at Extreme Rules. 

Have Rollins keep the belt by any means necessary until Brock's comeback at Summerslam where he goes full babyface and wins the belt back. Then we can get Brock/Sheamus and Brock/Wyatt out of the way. His Wrestlemania opponent? RUSEV. :lol that's not happening

Shame that we'll never get a Rollins/Bryan match during this reign, ya know, unless Bryan randomly drops the IC Title to Sheamus and starts not caring about the belt.  An eventual feud or match between Sheamus & Neville sounds incredible though.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Can someone help me? I want to get into XWT now that I have HEAPS more download limit, but "registrations are closed"


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Scott Steiner vs 3 Count & The Yung Dragons (WCW Monday Nitro 02.05.2001)*

x2m8im8

Scotty destroys a bunch of cruiserweights lol.

I know Cal has it uploaded,, but i couldn't find the link and wanted to share it elsewhere.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You could have just asked for the link lol .

But everyone totally needs to see it anyway. Steiner killing MIDGETS. Tis the most epic squash ever. I want BROCK to do something like that at some point. Just murder like 6 people in a handicap match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks Cal 

As yours is a private link i wasn't sure if it was ok to post elsewhere like. 

--------------------------

I want Brock to have a squash match on Raw against some jobbers, or a jobber, where
he demonstrates all the different styles of suplexes lol. 

Tiger Suplex, Fishermans's Suplex, Belly to Belly Suplex, Back Suplex, Suplex etc.

With a final message from Heyman at the end.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't know where this "Brock is babyface" stuff is coming from. He'll kill *anybody*. Yeah, he'll work vs Rollins at this rate, but that's about it. I still don't see how he'll be champion again either.


----------



## Foreshadowed (Oct 4, 2006)

Like I said in this thread a couple of days after WrestleMania 31 I haven't watched much wrestling in ages, around the 18 month mark. No Raw, no SmackDown, hardly any of the WWE PPV's, I haven't watched any TNA in 2 years and I haven't watched ROH for a long duration. However, I've been on a WWE/WCW/ECW DVD spending addiction the last couple of months.

I purchased the new Sting and The Shield Blu-Ray's last week and a few weeks back I picked up the WCW - Best of Monday Nitro Volume 1, WWE: The Attitude Era Volume 1, ECW Unreleased Volume 1, Goldberg: The Ultimate Collection, etc. I've also got the new Ultimate Warrior, Daniel Bryan and the WrestleMania 31 Blu-Ray's on pre-order.

I'm currently working my way through The Shield Blu-Ray and just got done with disc 1. I'll be checking out disc 2 tonight, especially to re-watch my favourite Shield match, The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family from Elimination Chamber last year. I had that match at ****1/2 when I watched it for the first time last year, thoroughly enjoyed everything about it; the action, the story, the pace, the final few minutes that would lead to the brilliant finish. Everyone came out looking like a star in that match, a real shame you don't see epic stable clashes like that in this current WWE product.

As for disc 1, here are my ratings for the matches below:

15-Minute Time Limit for the FCW 15 Championship (FCW August 2011)
Dean Ambrose vs. Seth Rollins
*Rating:* ***1/2

30-Minute Time Limit for the FCW 15 Championship (FCW September 2011)
Dean Ambrose vs. Seth Rollins
*Rating:* ****1/2

Triple Threat Match (FCW February 2012)
Dean Ambrose vs. Seth Rollins vs. Leakee
*Rating:* **1/4

Dean Ambrose vs. William Regal (FCW July 2012)
*Rating:* **3/4

Gold Rush Tournament Finals for the NXT Championship (NXT August 2012)
Seth Rollins vs. Jinder Mahal
*Rating:* ***1/4

Roman Reigns vs. CJ Parker (FCW October 2012)
*Rating:* *1/4

6-Man Tag Team TLC Match (TLC 2012)
The Shield vs. Ryback & Team Hell No
*Rating:* ****

United States Championship Match (Extreme Rules 2013)
Dean Ambrose vs. Kofi Kingston
*Rating:* **1/2

Tornado Match for the WWE Tag Team Championship (Extreme Rules 2013)
Roman Reigns & Seth Rollins vs. Team Hell No
*Rating:* ***3/4

WWE Tag Team Championship Match (Money In the Bank pre-show 2013)
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs. The Usos
*Rating:* ***1/2

Classic Survivor Series Elimination Match (Survivor Series 2013)
The Shield & The Real Americans vs. The Usos, Rhodes Brothers & Rey Mysterio
*Rating:* ****

Great Blu-Ray with a good selection of matches. I wish there were more matches with The Shield as a unit but you can understand why they wanted to also include more of the singles action with each Shield member and to highlight the break-up and the encounters these three had with each other afterwards.

Rollins/Ambrose 30 minute IronMan match was a fantastic match, the counters, moves, the fast pace, the false finishes and the finish was the ultimate pay off and you can tell at this point both men were ready for the big stage. The finish was brilliantly done with both men being shattered but Rollins pulling out two Superkicks to win it. The 15 minute IronMan match was also a great bout, some good spots and counters in that one and you could tell there was instant chemistry with these two men.

The TLC debut was enthralling to watch as I actually hadn't seen the match but I was very impressed on my first watch. It certified The Shield was a force no one wanted to deal with. The cohesiveness was there and that is what won them the match, the way all three worked together to eliminate each opponent. The spots and bumps were great also and they had the fans in attendance, including myself watching it on television in the palm of their hands from start to finish.

The Tornado tag from Extreme Rules was such a good match, again, another one I hadn't seen and I'm glad I have now. I just wish it went that little bit longer. The tornado stipulation made the match that little bit more wild and the action was everywhere. A great double team move (the Torture Rack/Flying Knee combo) to secure those Tag Team titles for The Shield. Again, a shame they never utilized that move since.

The Survivor Series elimination match cemented Reigns as the next top star. I like the story this match told with The Shield being outsmarted with only Rollins and Reigns left to face their 5 opponents with none being eliminated. Even with Rollins managing to eliminate one it had to be Reigns to use his power and dominance to take out the other opponents to secure the victory for his team. Such a fun ending to the match with that SPEAR that nearly killed Rey Mysterio.

A great collection so far with some fantastic matches, I'm looking forward to disc 2.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Holy shit they put those FCW matches on a DVD? Well, I need it now. Ambrose vs Regal omg.


----------



## Foreshadowed (Oct 4, 2006)

Yeah, I wished they put the first Ambrose/Regal encounter on the disc, that one sounded like a great match. The story for the return match was fantastic with all the build-up to Ambrose going out of his mind wanting revenge on Regal and trying desperately to goad Regal into a re-match. I loved Regal's cockiness and the fact he admired Ambrose as he saw his own characteristics in Ambrose but at the same time he hated him. I also like the fact on commentary Regal noted he may be the one put down but he would go down swinging.

I gave the second bout they had **3/4, it would have been much more if there was more action at the end. I loved the technical mat wrestling from Regal and how stiff he was with Ambrose, just further aggravating the latter. However, once Ambrose saw an opening he went for it and completely destroyed the ear of Regal.

A shame there was no real finish to the match and I wish there was more action but I do like the story they were telling.

Still a really good match. I'll have to try and catch their first clash sometime.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Dean Ambrose vs. William Regal (FCW July 2012) - Rating: **3/4???

Get out. Now.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Some of you still pretending Punk/Taker is a great match, eh? 8*D 

Reigns/Brock and Reigns/Bryan are both pretty darn good matches, the former being _very _darn good. Now that he's not being forced fed I might grow to like Roman. He seems to be getting better. If they can book him better then the guy just might get there in the end. Then again he is feuding with Big Show and I have zero interest in watching that...at all. 

Have any stips been added to the ER card yet? Seems a bit strange to have a show called EXTREME RULES when there's nothing extreme about it. Looking forward to Rollins/Orton regardless.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

KENNY said:


> Can someone help me? I want to get into XWT now that I have HEAPS more download limit, but "registrations are closed"


anyone? 


Brock said:


> *Scott Steiner vs 3 Count & The Yung Dragons (WCW Monday Nitro 02.05.2001)*
> 
> x2m8im8
> 
> ...


going to watch this now :mark:

TRIPLE STEINER RECLINER


----------



## Foreshadowed (Oct 4, 2006)

#ROOT said:


> Dean Ambrose vs. William Regal (FCW July 2012) - Rating: **3/4???
> 
> Get out. Now.


Nah... I think I'll stay... unless I disappear like last time. What did you rate the match by the way? I've seen ratings from ** to **** so I'm in the middle and provided a reason why I came to that rating. For me the match was more about the story, the intensity and the conclusion with Regal laying unconscious. Still, any other thoughts are welcome.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Been a while since I saw their matches, and what I'd written about the second one wasn't really worth re-posting as I just called Regal and awesome CUNT for what he did to Ambrose early on and how great he was at selling his head injury . I'd go at LEAST **** for it, and even higher for their first match.

Links for both their matches for anyone interested:

FCW - William Regal vs Dean Ambrose II - July15-12

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k3jRtwpIWU51DI4MHep (Private)

FCW - William Regal vs Dean Ambrose I - FCW TV - Nov6-11

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/kzxHU4gA5yW2zW4MGoG (Private)


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

What were Deans and Regals thoughts on the matches?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Finally started watching the Rockers/Brainbusters series, just watched the (MSG – 1/23/89)
match. Forgot just how good Arn/Tully were as a heel tag team, and i still say
The Rockers are undervalued as a tag team IMO.

I think Cal uploaded all of their matches together. Before the (Spectrum – 12/18/88) match, they cut a promo and the interviewer looked like Paul Bearer's brother lol, fuck knows how he was.

Rockers/Orients still being their best match IMO. As people are always talking
about dream matches, how about Rockers/Midnight Express?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

KENNY said:


> What were Deans and Regals thoughts on the matches?


Regal is a HUGE fan of Dean's, once he saw him he started telling Hunter and all the talent relations people he needed to be on the main roster ASAP. Then he asked to work with him and that's how we got both of those matches. Dean said he had the time of his life getting the crap kicked out of him by Regal and that the first Regal match and the 30 min IM match with Rollins are his 2 favorite matches of his whole career.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Midnight Rockers Vs Midnight Express would be amazing.

And I did indeed upload all their matches:



Spoiler: AWESOME



Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Superstars – 12/10/88)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvtz6e_rockers-vs-brainbusters-superstars-12-10-88_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Spectrum – 12/18/88)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu017_rockers-vs-brainbusters-spectrum-12-18-88_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Boston Garden – 1/13/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu109_rockers-vs-brainbusters-boston-garden-1-13-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (MSG – 1/23/89, audio issues)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu256_rockers-vs-brainbusters-msg-1-23-89-audio-issues_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (LA Sports Arena – 1/29/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu328_rockers-vs-brainbusters-la-sports-arena-1-29-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Superstars – 2/18/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu3b4_rockers-vs-brainbusters-superstars-2-18-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (SNME – 3/11/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu43q_rockers-vs-brainbusters-snme-3-11-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (MSG – 3/18/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu4mc_rockers-vs-brainbusters-msg-3-18-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Boston Garden – 3/18/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu56g_rockers-vs-brainbusters-boston-garden-3-18-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Prime Time Wrestling – 3/27/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu5ve_rockers-vs-brainbusters-prime-time-wrestling-3-27-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (SNME – 11/25/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu69j_rockers-vs-brainbusters-snme-11-25-89_sport


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

If this doesn't give you the feels, you don't have a soul:








Here is Cesaro's:










And here is their amazing match, @Yeah1993 if you haven't seen this bud, you need to. A fan of limb work can't possibly watch this and not love it.










#ROOT said:


> Midnight Rockers Vs Midnight Express would be amazing.
> 
> And I did indeed upload all their matches:
> 
> ...




Cal, refresh my memory, which one out of these is the best of the bunch?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

MSG – 3/18/89... I think :lmao.


----------



## JBLoser (Jun 12, 2005)

Finally decided to watch Rollins/Lesnar/Cena from the Rumble. What an awesome, awesome match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

JBLoser said:


> Finally decided to watch Rollins/Lesnar/Cena from the Rumble. What an awesome, awesome match.


I like that match more than a lot of people in this thread do, I thought it was great as well. I don't like it as much as Steve Austin, Meltzer, Wade Keller, etc do, they all said it was the best 3-way ever and a borderline 5-star match. The thing that really stuck out to me was how Brock was booked like a semi-baby face, once Rollins put him out through that table, having the paramedics/etc come and having him make a courageous return is something that was done for the baby faces in the WM 20 and WM 30 triple threat matches.

I gave it ****1/4, it was truly an awesome match, very unique as well because Brock changed the entire dynamic of that match. It's certainly one of the top 5 best triple threat matches, off the top of my head only the WM 20, Vengeance 2002, and maybe the Vengeance 2003 matches were flat out better. Possibly Backlash 2004 as well, although I haven't seen that one in full in quite a while.

So happy Brock is here to stay. Everything he does is just _different_ than what anyone else is currently doing in pro wrestling, maybe anyone ever. I wish he had his dates bumped up to 4-5 PPV matches a year, but I'll take what I can get, it's better than only seeing him in the Octagon once maybe twice a year.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I should give that match a re-watch just for the simple fact I truly believe I'm one out of 5 people tops on this site who did not like it. I thought was meh spotfest that was overrated by that one Rollins spot. I know Cody and Andre didnt like it, someone else in here too ?

It's odd to because it's the hands down MOTY in so many thread I read on here


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Meh, I had the triple threat at ***1/2

Now Reigns/Lesnar, I'd go ****-****1/4 on that.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Skins said:


> I should give that match a re-watch just for the simple fact I truly believe I'm one out of 5 people tops on this site who did not like it. I thought was meh spotfest that was overrated but that one Rollins spot. I know Cody and Andre didnt like it, someone else in here too ?
> 
> It's odd to because it's the hands down MOTY in so many thread I read on here


I haven't watched any WWE TV really this year, but out of the matches at RR, FastLane, and WM, I'd only put Reigns/Lesnar above it. Generally, I just really don't like multi man matches all that much. Give me a tag, or give me singles, 3, 4, and 5 man matches just aren't my thing. I liked that RR match specifically because it was so different than every other triple threat I'd seen, and even though they did go into finisher over kill, it didn't detract TOO much from my opinion of it. Possibly because it's Brock, WWE has booked him so strongly that it would look completely ridiculous for Cena to try and do his 5 moves of doom to him. You gotta pull out the heavy artillery if you want to stand a chance, that's the story they went with and it made sense to me at the time. A lot of it also is that I watched it live and genuinely had no idea who would win, same as with Lesnar/Reigns, and matches like that are always more enjoyable for me. I mean I didn't even have an inkling, because this was when Brock's contract was totally up in the air. WWE could have had any of those 3 guys believably win that match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Here's my Extreme Rules 2009 review, I had to sit through a hog pen match so you guys should check it out :lmao

http://prowrestlingpalace.blogspot.com/2015/04/countdown-to-extremerules-er-2009.html


I have both the RR triple threat and Reigns/Lesner at ****1/4, not sure which one would be my WWE MOTY but Okada/Tanahashi from WK 9 beats both so it doesn't matter too much


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> If this doesn't give you the feels, you don't have a soul:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I love that match. I gave it **** 1/4 on my last watch.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Smitty said:


> Here's my Extreme Rules 2009 review, I had to sit through a hog pen match so you guys should check it out :lmao
> 
> http://prowrestlingpalace.blogspot.com/2015/04/countdown-to-extremerules-er-2009.html
> 
> ...


I think the Cena vs. Big Show match on that card was even worse than the Hog Pen match. Holy crap do those guys just not connect. And now it's sad to see Roman suffer the same pain of working with that oaf.

There are two other triple threat matches last year that I liked more than that awesome RR match.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Smitty said:


> Here's my Extreme Rules 2009 review, I had to sit through a hog pen match so you guys should check it out :lmao
> 
> http://prowrestlingpalace.blogspot.com/2015/04/countdown-to-extremerules-er-2009.html
> 
> ...


Batista was hurt going into that cage match with Orton. His arm was messed up and he missed time after the match. I checked wikipedia and Orton and Legacy attacked him the next night and he vacated the title. 

The Hog Pen match is everything that is wrong with the WWE. They take a funny joke and just ruin it. I remember going into Wrestlemania Santino said he was going to be "The King of the Divas" and win the Divas Battle Royal. That's a fun gimmick to have. Instead we get months and months of him dressing like a woman...


----------



## Foreshadowed (Oct 4, 2006)

I watched the Regal/Ambrose I match last night and I concur, it's the better match and a bout I would rate at **** on first watch. I guess I just preferred this match more over the second one. Don't get me wrong, their second match was a really good match but I don't know, I guess I wanted a bit more from it. As I said, I like the story they were telling in that one and the way Regal worked on the weakened arm of Ambrose and then Ambrose found an opening and worked a way at the ear and head of Regal. The match had terrific selling from both men but I just wanted that little bit more.

As for the first match though, I loved it. Regal once again showing his mat wrestling prowess and destroying the arm of Ambrose from start to finish, Ambrose being the crazed lunatic just begging Regal to come at him some more and also trying everything in his moveset (with one arm) to take out Regal. I also like how this match flowed and was more back and forth in comparison to their second match and the ending was just as epic with Ambrose hardly able to stand just smiling at Regal, who finished him off with the Running Knee to the face. Great match but it intrigues me as it makes me want to go back and watch the second match again as maybe I was overly harsh on it. I'll check it out again sometime.

Also, I have the Brock/Cena/Rollins match from Royal Rumble at **** on first watch. I watched it the night after the Rumble pay-per-view but I thoroughly enjoyed it. Like people have said, Lesnar just brings something fresh to the matches and this was no different. Sure, it became a finisher spotfest at the end but to me, that's what made it brilliant. I was also a fan of the Lesnar recovery and how he destroyed Cena and Rollins when he returned, showing no matter what you do, you can put him through an announce table, he will still find something in him to come back and Suplex your ass. Great finish to a very entertaining triple threat match.

Also, I got done with disc 2 of The Shield Blu-Ray set, only have the exclusive Blu-Ray content to go through now. However, my ratings for disc two are:

*6-Man Tag Team Match
The Shield (Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins & Dean Ambrose) vs. The Wyatt Family (Bray Wyatt, Luke Harper & Erick Rowan) - Elimination Chamber 2014*
*Rating:* ****1/2

I absolutely loved this match on first watch and it still holds up today as my favourite six-man match with The Shield. The story going into it was great, both factions want to rule the WWE and have done a good job so far decimating their foes however, they haven't faced one another and now was the time to see which was the most dominant stable. The crazed and dark Wyatt Family or the dominant and rabid hounds of The Shield. This had a unique feeling to it, two heel stables going at it and the crowd, including myself loved it!

The back and forth action, the incredible fast pace throughout, the isolating on one man, the big spots at the end and the finish; everything clicked, everything worked, everything was spot on.

I especially like the way The Shield dominated the first half of the match with the quick tags and fast pace they utilized throughout and then eventually The Wyatt Family manage to gain control and instead slowly pick apart The Shield (in this case Rollins) in vehement fashion. Then all hell breaks loose with Rollins diving everywhere with flips and splashes, Ambrose is going beserk on Bray Wyatt and Reigns is using everything in his locker to put Rowan down.

The end with The Wyatt Family standing outside the ring having disposed of Ambrose and putting Rollins through the announce table and slowly stalking the remaining member of The Shield in Reigns was epic. It is what The Shield did throughout their domination over the WWE and now it was happening to them. The fight back from Reigns really worked and made the end to the match that bit more exciting. I'm a huge fan of the finish with the SUPERMAN PUNCHES to Wyatt and Rowan and the SPEAR to Harper only for Bray Wyatt to come in, completely smash into Reigns with the Crossbody and then finish him off with a vicious Sister Abigail. Such a fantastic six-man tag!

Makes me want to go back to their rematch from Raw, which albeit, wasn't as good as the Elimination Chamber match, it was still a fun match to watch. I think I had it at ***1/2-***3/4 at the time. 

*No Holds Barred 6-Man Elimination Tag Team Match
The Shield (Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins & Dean Ambrose) vs. Evolution (Triple H, Randy Orton & Batista) - Payback 2014*
*Rating:* ****1/4

Another incredible six-man tag team match and again, an enjoyable feud that helped solidify The Shield as stars. The Extreme Rules match was a fantastic contest that I also had at ****1/4 on first watch (haven't seen it since) and this one at Payback was the same rating for me. Both matches were different in the story of the match but both ended with The Shield looking dominant.

The Extreme Rules match I remember was where The Shield came out looking the stronger faction and won convincingly in the end so, what do Evolution do? They decide to concentrate on one member of The Shield and isolate them, in this case they concentrate on the powerhouse in Reigns. The plan works for most of the match where they completely beat him down but they make one mistake, they don't finish him off or go for the pin to eliminate him. This would go on to cost them as when Rollins dives off the top of the PPV stage set, The Shield gain control and quickly discard each Evolution member one-by-one.

This match is split into thirds; the first third is fast and fluid with The Shield dominating, the second third is Evolution slowly picking apart and decimating each Shield member and inflicting so much physical abuse on the back of Reigns and the final third is the big Rollins spot, all six men crawling back to the ring and leading to the quick finish. Excellent back, great feud and it would go on to the big swerve the next night.

*Money in the Bank Ladder Match
Seth Rollins vs. Dean Ambrose vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Kofi Kingston vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Jack Swagger - Money in the Bank 2014*
*Rating:* ****

A fun, action-packed Ladder Match where all men featured take some big bumps especially Rollins who takes that nasty Back Body Drop onto the ladder where he scrapes his back down it and then falls and bashes his head against the vertical ladder. Looked sick but luckily, it didn't do too much harm to Rollins.

The match also had a great story behind it with Ambrose being in the match as Rollins wanted him there to keep an eye on him as otherwise, he knew Ambrose would run-in and try and cost him the golden opportunity at winning Money in the Bank. 

Some big spots in this one, the match is an enthralling one to watch and never stops. Some of the climbs where one of the superstars nearly reaches the briefcase is done so well, even the crowd thought they would do it, including when Kofi Kingston was on his own perched on the ladder; you thought he would finally win a Money in the Bank match, same with the Ziggler spot where he was climbing on one leg and Ambrose (who returned to the match after his shoulder "popped out") looked to have got the best of Rollins and started to climb with one arm only for Kane to intervene and get rid of Ambrose (what a weak ass Tombstone Piledriver) to allow Rollins to win. Great stuff!

*Lumberjack Match
Dean Ambrose vs. Seth Rollins - SummerSlam 2014*
*Rating:* ***1/2

A very entertaining match despite the annoying Lumberjack stipulation. I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of this stipulation, haven't been for a long time as usually these matches follow the same formula and detracts from the in-ring action. That's just my opinion though. However, Rollins/Ambrose make good use of this stipulation and make it thrilling to watch.

I like the fact the Lumberjacks can't keep control of both men, with Ambrose diving on any Lumberjack that gets in his way just so he can get to Rollins, who is trying desperately to escape the arena. Corporate Kane has to come out to order the Lumberjacks to regain control, which they manage to do so in order for both men to fight in the ring (albeit briefly). The big Splash from Ambrose off the top rope onto Rollins and the Lumberjacks as they were all carrying Rollins to the ring was a nice spot. The finish could have been better as it sort of came out of no where with Ambrose disposing of one of The Wyatt Family members only to turn around into Rollins knocking him out with the briefcase for the win.

Superb match for a Lumberjack match though, the Raw rematch the following night though was the superior match. 

*Roman Reigns vs. Randy Orton - SummerSlam 2014*
*Rating:* ***1/2

A really good match that again, cemented Reigns as the next top star in the industry. This match told a good story and went on a pretty long time. It was back and forth at the end and some of the false finishes really worked. It didn't go overboard with them though, which was nice to see.

Reigns looks like he was about to win it but Orton turns the Superman Punch into an RKO, which Reigns kicks out of. Then Reigns regains control and looks like he is going to finish Orton off with the Spear, only for Orton to counter the move with a sensational Powerslam (love that spot!) but eventually Reigns does manage to hit the Spear out of no where for the win. The match started slow but picked up especially towards the end and I think both men worked a really great match together.

*Falls Count Anywhere Match
Dean Ambrose vs. Seth Rollins - RAW August 18, 2014*
*Rating:* ****

I remember watching this match last year and enjoying it so I was pleased to see this on the set. After watching it for a second time, I can say it is a fascinating match to watch. This was what the SummerSlam match should have been, both men going all out to destroy one another with some big bumps, creative spots and doing so at a frantic pace.

The running Powerbomb spot onto the mountain of steel chairs was awesome and the Superplex through the table just symbolised how much both men detested one another. I also like the Corporate Kane involvement as once again, Rollins tried to escape but Ambrose just thought enough is enough and went for both men with Suicide dives and throwing them into any object he could utilize. 

It only worked for so long though as the man advantage worked for Rollins who completely destroyed Ambrose with with Curb Stomp onto the cinder blocks. This would write Ambrose off television for a while but it added more fuel to this fiery story.

*Roman Reigns vs. Seth Rollins - RAW September 15, 2014 *
*Rating:* ***

I thought these two men worked a great match in their first singles match together. It was the powerhouse versus the high flyer and the match clicked for me. Reigns was trying to get revenge for what Rollins did to Ambrose and at some points in the match he was completely battering Rollins with his powerful moveset.

Rollins did start to dominate the match in the middle as the heel usually does but Reigns would come back and it would lead to the frantic finish with both men knowing each other so well and countering each others moves. In the end, Reigns hits a malicious Spear out of no where to secure the victory.

Overall, this is a fantastic set with some incredible matches, some classics that will be remembered for a long time and it also features some really fun, compelling bouts. The documentary is also pretty good, detailing how each Shield member started in the business, their different backgrounds and how they got to where they are today (at that point SummerSlam and just after SummerSlam last year). You appreciate all three men that little bit more for the hard work and graft they put into improving themselves and getting better day after day and you can see the passion they have for this business and how they want to be the best.

I highly recommend getting this set, you'll have a blast with the matches featured on this one.

tl;dr - The Shield are awesome and so is this Blu-Ray set!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

SHIELD. Amazement doesn't make them justice. Not sure if any other stable had a more consistent run in terms of match quality ever. Just looking at their PPV stuff alone (took these from my SHIELD project listings... a project I shamefully never bothered to finish):

TLC 2012, vs Hell No & Ryback: ****3/4
EC 2013, vs Cena Sheamus & Ryback: ****
WM 29, vs Orton Show & Sheamus: ***1/2
ER 2013, Ambrose vs Kofi: **1/4
ER 2013, Rollins & Reigns vs Hell No: ***1/4
PB 2013, Ambrose vs Kane: 3/4*
PB 2013, Rollins & Reigns vs RKNo: ***1/4
MITB 2013 pre-show, Rollins & Reigns vs Usos: ***1/2
MITB 2013, WHC Ladder match: ****1/4
SS 2013 pre-show, Ambrose vs RVD: **3/4
NOC 2013, Ambrose vs Ziggler: **1/2
NOC 2013, Rollins & Reigns vs PTP: **1/2
BG 2013, Rollins & Reigns vs Rhodes Bros: ****1/4
SVS 2013, Team Shield vs Team Rey: ***1/2
TLC 2013, vs Punk: ***1/4
RR 2014, 30-Man Rumble: ***1/4 (Batista debacle aside it was really entertaining tbh)
EC 2014, vs Wyatts: ****3/4
WM 30, vs Kane & NAO: **
ER 2014, vs Evolution: ****1/4
PB 2014, vs Evolution: **3/4

W/the exception of the Ambrose/Kane stinker (these two just didn't have any chemistry whatsoever), not a single bad match to be found up there. And a whole collection of damn good stuff, including two near 5'ers against Ryback/Hell No & the Wyatts. And that's not even getting to their TV stuff.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

ATF said:


> SHIELD. Amazement doesn't make them justice. Not sure if any other stable had a more consistent run in terms of match quality ever. Just looking at their PPV stuff alone (took these from my SHIELD project listings... a project I shamefully never bothered to finish):
> 
> *TLC 2012, vs Hell No & Ryback: ****3/4
> EC 2013, vs Cena Sheamus & Ryback: ****
> ...


checking these out now


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

After watching that Harts/Steiners tag and being so annoyed with Gorilla constantly critiquing the wrestlers performance instead of calling the match, I decided to ask the greatest commentator ever, Jim Ross, on Twitter why announcers will highlight when a wrestler makes a lackadaisical cover or do something that doesn't make sense, like when someone injures their leg but his opponent starts attacking his body. Ross replied "Honesty. You have to stay credible with the audience." No wonder I didn't think of that, it's been YEARS since the announcers at WWE had even a shred of credibility with the audience :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Wait a minute. Jim Ross responded to you on Twitter?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Best NXT matches of 2015? Not including the live specials.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Wait a minute. Jim Ross responded to you on Twitter?


Sure did. He's responded to me a few times actually. I only had a Twitter account originally for sports news but when JR and Austin got their podcasts they asked that listeners send their questions to them on Twitter. So every once in a while if I'm watching a match and a question for them pops into my head I'll ask it. My Twitter is @SeeJack828 if you want to see it but don't get all creepy on me and start stalking me


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

RatedR10 said:


> Best NXT matches of 2015? Not including the live specials.


Balor&Itami vs The Ascension- NXT 1/1/2015
Tyson Kidd vs Finn Balor- NXT 14/1/2015
Sami Zayn vs Adrian Neville 14/1/2015
Adrian Neville vs Tyson Kidd 28/1/2015
Finn Balor vs Hideo Itami 4/2/2015
Kevin Owens vs Adrian Neville 18/2/2015- this is my personal favourite
Charlotte vs Sasha Banks- 4/3/2015
Tyler Breeze vs Hideo Itami 11/3/2015
Finn Balor vs Kevin Owens- 25/3/2015
Hideo Itami vs Tyler Breeze 1/4/2015, I didn't like this that much, but I have seen that many people loved it, so yeah
Hideo Itami vs Adrian Neville 8/4/2015


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Srdjan99 said:


> Balor&Itami vs The Ascension- NXT 1/1/2015
> Tyson Kidd vs Finn Balor- NXT 14/1/2015
> Sami Zayn vs Adrian Neville 14/1/2015
> Adrian Neville vs Tyson Kidd 28/1/2015
> ...


I'm not the one who asked, but this is awesomely helpful.

Could you do 2014? You can include live specials & the weekly shows.

@funnyfaces1, I'm not opposed to it, but right now I want to watch stuff that I can easily watch on my tv, not my computer, and that doesn't require downloading. Plus, it's going to take me awhile to get through this, if I stick to it.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Watched the first two matches of ER 2010 today, Punk vs Rey is still :mark:

These events in 09 and 2010 make me actually appreciate the current product, the opener for 2010 was a gauntlet tag match that lasted 5 minutes :lmao


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> I'm not the one who asked, but this is awesomely helpful.
> 
> Could you do 2014? You can include live specials & the weekly shows.


Sure I can


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Any thoughts on the Hardy/Edge match from ER 2009?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Srdjan99 said:


> Balor&Itami vs The Ascension- NXT 1/1/2015
> Tyson Kidd vs Finn Balor- NXT 14/1/2015
> Sami Zayn vs Adrian Neville 14/1/2015
> Adrian Neville vs Tyson Kidd 28/1/2015
> ...


Looking forward to watching these when I get home tomorrow. Thanks!


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Srdjan99 said:


> Any thoughts on the Hardy/Edge match from ER 2009?


I put that whole show review up on my blog yesterday, check out the link in my sig


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Smitty said:


> I put that whole show review up on my blog yesterday, check out the link in my sig


Cena/Show's chemistry is p.underrated. Produced 2 great matches and one good one IMO


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

Smitty said:


> Watched the first two matches of ER 2010 today, Punk vs Rey is still :mark:
> 
> These events in 09 and 2010 make me actually appreciate the current product, the opener for 2010 was a gauntlet tag match that lasted 5 minutes :lmao


In fact, I think Extreme Rules 2010 is a great PPV with two great matches(Cena/Batista and Edge/Jericho) and a very good one(Rey/Punk). That PPV probably makes me hate the current product :lol


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

IT'S TIME FOR ANOTHER HONEY BUCKET REVIEW...YEEEEEESS IT IS

*CANADIAN STAMPEDE MOTHERFUCKERS*! YES INDEED!

WE ARE LIVE IN CALGARY, ALBERTA CANADA! HOME OF THE HARTS! HOLY SHIT! THIS CROWD IS RABID!

MATCH ONE: *TREBLE H* w/ *that slut Chyna* vs. *FOLEYKIND* - This match has come from KOTR - yes, King Of The Ring, when HHH obliterated Foley for the KOTR finals. Foley comes out and teaches HHH a few things about hardcore wrestling, and even mocks his curtsy! Yes! They battle outside and Triple H whips Mankind into a SICK bump onto the steel steps. I mean that was AWFUL fucking hell. Foley, please calm down man for god sake. Does Foley still have his legs? Foley gets up however and HHH works over his leg. FOR A LONG TIME. HHH in 1997 is fucking boring. Mankind goes outside but HHH hits him with a chair. Then behind the refs back, Chyna hits him with a clothesline. This is actuallly a great match. They go outside and the ref calls for the bell. It's a double DQ! Oh man. Wait no it's a double count out *** They keep fighting! We shall return!

They keep on fighting like the cunts they are.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

I'm sorry for this break...:berry

I have to say...during the video package prior to the Mankind-HHH match, theres a voice over where JR says 'is Helmsley trying to buy the WWF?'. HAHAHAHAHAH amazing.

Our next match is a light heayweight junior .....wait? encounter.

*TAKA MICHYNOKYNOOKYMOKUNOKUNOKU* vs. *THE GREAT SASUSUSUSUSUSUSUSUSUSUKE*
Before this even gets under way, Mankind and HHH are still brawling in the underpass. This is most distracting. The match begins and both chaps are cautious. All of a sudden Sasuke catches Taka with a WICKED kick to the face. Holy shit that was BRUTAL.Almost knocked his head off. Taka follows with a plancha...I think....I dunno. Then Sasuka follows up with more kicks. The crowd LOVES Taka. Sasuka follows with another suicide dive. MICHINOKU DRIVER! Kick out! Unbelievable. Powerbomb by Sasuke followed by his patented suplex thingy. 1-2-3. Over. What? Weak ending but GREAT match. ***


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

One of the GOAT PPV's of all the times, and certainly one of the absolute top single brand PPV's of all the times, JD 2006, is the ramble posted on my BLOGS~! this week . Everyone go watch the show. NOW. Then come back, read my ramble and agree with all my CORRECT RATINGS .

Bah, if I wasn't moving and didn't have all my DVD's at my other house right now, I'd stick the DVD in myself and watch FINLAY VS BENOIT for the hell of it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Srdjan99 said:


> Any thoughts on the Hardy/Edge match from ER 2009?


DUD. 

Avoid w/all caution. If you want Jeff Hardy in a ladder match, stick w/vs Undertaker or CM Punk.

Extreme Rules 2009 is a terrible show. Pardon a good Mysterio vs Jericho match & a watchable Show vs Cena affair.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hey, the ECW title match is pretty good .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've never cared for it. Granted, it's actually not bad.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh what a surprise you disagree with me on something 8*D.

Here's what I wrote about it during my ECW 2009 Project:



Spoiler: ecw title match



Christian Vs Tommy Dreamer Vs Jack Swagger - ECW Title Match - Extreme Rules 07/06/2009

ECW Rules match... or Extreme Rules match... or Hardcore match... or Street Fight... or No Holds Barred... yeah it's one of those matches .

Swagger looks good at the start, using his power and wrestling ability to keep it one on one in the ring and things going his way. Then Christian and Dreamer both go under the ring and bring out weapons to beat the shit out of the All American American.

:lmao Swagger gets knocked out of the ring at one point and nearly lands inside a trash can. I'd have given this ***** if he landed in it rather than just his arm going in .

Dreamer does shit with weapons, but the best parts of this are clearly Swagger/Christian. Callback spots from their previous matches including a big press slam (not to the outside though), and the turnbuckle cover being removed which I'm hoping will come back later in the match for a pay off. 

Some really fun spots in this match, most of them based on moves they already do, only this time using weapons to aid them, which I like over something random. Bit where Christian does his springboard crossbody from the inside to the floor and ends up colliding with a trash can thanks to Swagger is sweet. Christian looks like he's DEAD afterwards too.

Yey, exposed turnbuckle comes into play . Swagger drops Christian on it, goes for the Powerbomb, only to be stopped by Dreamer and DDT'd! Dreamer gets the win and becomes the NEW ECW Champion and his contract is renewed. Yey?

Fun fun fun fun fun fun fun. Fun. This match is fun. Good too, but mainly fun. I liked it a lot. Was a little worried it would be shit (Dreamer being involved and all), but nope, good. And fun. Dreamer cries some more. He's the ECW version of Ric Flair.

Rating: ***1/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I still feel like you & I meet up more commonly in this thread than others (pardon Jheri) :lmao

I still say it's a decent, albeit forgettable match. Rather than I care for it. But, still. For that show, not bad is an accomplishment.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Some matches I've watched recently

Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit - WWF Title King of the Ring 2001. 
Team Alliance vs Team WWF - Winner Take All Survivor Series 2001.
The Rock vs Mankind - Empty Arena Match 
Ric Flair and Hulk Hogan vs Sting and Lex Luger (Nitro 99)


Matches I'm about to put on to watch now:

DDP vs Sting - Nitro 1999, World Heavyweight Championship
WCW Fall Brawl 1997 - Eddie Guerrero vs Chris Jericho
WCW Clash of the Champions XXXIV - Dean Malenko vs Ultimo Dragon
WCW Nitro 1998 - Billy Kidman Vs. Juventud 
WCW Halloween Havoc 1993 - Cactus Jack Vs. Vader
Lord Steven Regal vs Larry Zbyszko-Non Title Grudge 
Booker T. vs. Chris Benoit WCW Great American Bash 
Diesel/Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon/1-2-3 Kid
96-03-24 Fit Finlay vs. Steven Regal (Uncensored)
Bret Hart vs. Curt Hennig WCW Uncensored 1998
DDP vs. Raven WCW Spring Stampede 1998
DDP vs. Raven WCW Slamboree 1998
Cactus Jack & Kevin Sullivan vs Paul Roma & Paul Orndoff (Bash at the Beach 1994)
Goldberg vs. Sid Vicious WCW Halloween Havoc 
WCW - Fit Finlay vs Steve Regal (Parking Lot Brawl)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KENNY said:


> Matches I'm about to put on to watch now:
> 
> *DDP vs Sting - Nitro 1999, World Heavyweight Championship*
> WCW Fall Brawl 1997 - Eddie Guerrero vs Chris Jericho
> ...


Probably the biggest fan of Austin vs Benoit vs Jericho. They beat the piss out of each other and I dig it. Wild main event on a widly fun show.

Bolded all the ones I dig the most from the list. I'd skip on Bret vs Hennig, b/c it sucks, but if you're curious, then I can understand. idk the Regal vs Larry Z match being as good as the Saturday Night match for the TV strap, but it's probably still p. good. If the Slamboree '94 match. Finlay vs Regal stuff, talk about some of the tops.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cal you want me or anybody else to agree on your Benoit/Finlay rating of ONLY ****1/2? Hell is that shit?

Cody when was the last time you watched Goldberg/Sid?


----------



## TomTom94 (Oct 18, 2013)

just wanted to log-in and ask is the best of Saturday night's main event DVD worth getting? its been a while since I've seen any of those matches on the set.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TomTom94 said:


> just wanted to log-in and ask is the best of Saturday night's main event DVD worth getting? its been a while since I've seen any of those matches on the set.


YES. One of the most fun sets around. Bunch of good matches, fun matches, great and fun segments. One of my fav dvd's.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Judgment Day 2006 being thrown around as an all-time great PPV? HOLY SHIT CAL AND I ARE IN THE SAME POSITION REGARDING SOMETHING :mark: That Benoit/Finlay match is some form of a work of art. It's more than just wrasslin.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Cody when was the last time you watched Goldberg/Sid?


This year. Like Feb or maybe even March. I'd look, but I'm too lazy. Both of their matches weren't worth seeing. Just way too short to be anything substantial, unfortunately. The Havoc one kind of had a good story behind it, but it was so ass backwards. Did a nice job of creating Sid as a babyface. But he'd stay heel for well over a month following. Very bizarre. You could tell Russo was already booking.


----------



## Shaun_27 (Apr 12, 2011)

Im not sure if this is the correct place to post this question, but i just watched King of the Ring 2001 and saw the main event for the first time since i saw it live. Does anybody know what happened or what was supposed to happen with the finish? Benoit does a diving headbutt on Austin, Benoit then superplexes Jericho, they all lie there for a minute and then Austin pins Benoit. Seemed to strange watching it.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Shaun_27 said:


> Im not sure if this is the correct place to post this question, but i just watched King of the Ring 2001 and saw the main event for the first time since i saw it live. Does anybody know what happened or what was supposed to happen with the finish? Benoit does a diving headbutt on Austin, Benoit then superplexes Jericho, they all lie there for a minute and then Austin pins Benoit. Seemed to strange watching it.


I can't remember what the planned finish exactly was, but I believe Benoit broke his neck or something when he did the superplex and couldn't get up. So there was some dead time while the ref figured it out and told Austin to wrap it up.


----------



## Shaun_27 (Apr 12, 2011)

admiremyclone said:


> I can't remember what the planned finish exactly was, but I believe Benoit broke his neck or something when he did the superplex and couldn't get up. So there was some dead time while the ref figured it out and told Austin to wrap it up.


Damn the amount of injuries on this PPV was crazy. I realise now this must be the injury Benoit talks about in the old "Don't try this at home" videos.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Shaun_27 said:


> Damn the amount of injuries on this PPV was crazy. I realise now this must be the injury Benoit talks about in the old "Don't try this at home" videos.


Yep that's the one! Benoit actually got injured in the TLC match prior to KOTR but he continued to wrestle until that superplex did something to his spine. 

And then Booker T putting Austin through the commentary table broke some bones in his back. Crazy!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shane lost some brain cells that night too lol, and DDP's career died.


----------



## TomTom94 (Oct 18, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> YES. One of the most fun sets around. Bunch of good matches, fun matches, great and fun segments. One of my fav dvd's.


thanks (Y) planning on getting it now. currently I'm waiting for the best of smackdown 2009-10 DVD to arrive in the mail. That set has some nice underrated matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TomTom94 said:


> thanks (Y) planning on getting it now. currently I'm waiting for the best of smackdown 2009-10 DVD to arrive in the mail. That set has some nice underrated matches.


That's another fav set of mine, got the Bluray. Bunch of awesome stuff on it for sure.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thought id share these here for peeps who are interested. Put a big smile on my face, esp the first match, and made me forget the dregs of current WWE:

*PAC vs El Generico (All Star Weekend IV Night 2)*

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/indy-...l-star-weekend-iv-night-2-a.html#post47676130

*PAC vs El Generico (PWG World Championship) (All Star Weekend V Night 1)*

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/indy-...ll-star-weekend-v-night-1-a.html#post47676154


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Watched Eddie/Rey from Summerslam 2005 today, and well it was a good match, easily a ***1/4 bout, but damn, it had so many botches for a Guerrero/Mysterio match


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> This year. Like Feb or maybe even March. I'd look, but I'm too lazy. Both of their matches weren't worth seeing. Just way too short to be anything substantial, unfortunately. The Havoc one kind of had a good story behind it, but it was so ass backwards. Did a nice job of creating Sid as a babyface. But he'd stay heel for well over a month following. Very bizarre. You could tell Russo was already booking.


Dude we disagree on something! Mark the date. I thought Havoc being a revenge squash of Goldberg punching Sid in his stupid bleedy face for seven minutes was awesome. I didn't think Sid was a babyface at all but WCW was a mess by then anyway so IDK.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Last night I watched from that list I posted:

Regal/Finlay Parking lot brawl (nitro)
Regal/Final Uncensored 96
WCW Nitro 1998 - Billy Kidman Vs. Juventud

Regal/Finlay was just so much :mark:. LOVED their Uncensored match, beating the absolutely snot out of each other for a pretty decent amount of time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Dude we disagree on something! Mark the date. I thought Havoc being a revenge squash of Goldberg punching Sid in his stupid bleedy face for seven minutes was awesome. I didn't think Sid was a babyface at all but WCW was a mess by then anyway so IDK.


I should have had a FUCK LOGIC moment w/it, but it was too much nonsense for me to enjoy angry Goldberg. Like I can't shake how bizarre it all felt to see the roles reversed. Especially when, iirc, there wasn't even any issue where Goldberg needed to be berzerk towards Sid when he was the one messing w/him constantly per weeks of build. He just was. b/c I guess that's how Russo envisioned Goldberg when he got there. That show can burn in the fiery pits of wrestlecrap hell though. Unless I'm feeling REALLY in the mood for pristine hogwash.


----------



## Yeezus (Jul 25, 2013)

Currently wanting me some WCW in chronological order.

Any advice on where I should start ?


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Apparently Cody and Goldust have been having amazing matches at house shows, shame they couldn't do that at Fastlane. Wonder if they'll go back to it at some stage.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

If I find anything else, I'll post it. Surprised neither Sheamus nor Balor's matches didn't make it onto Youtube.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

direct me people

much high very wrestling mood

brother


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

KENNY said:


> direct me people
> 
> much high very wrestling mood
> 
> brother


Dunno if you like HBK or not, but I was surfing the web last night for some underrated bouts of his and found this match with Flair that I surprisingly have not seen before. Great bout, not as good as their WM match, but still a very good wrestling match

https://youtu.be/_L-LAp8PoZQ


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

1991 very interesting, im going to watch this right away :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

KENNY said:


> direct me people
> 
> much high very wrestling mood
> 
> brother


Eddie/Jericho v. Meng/Barbarian 2/24/97
Wrath/Mortis v. Glacier/The Cat BATB 97
Benoit/Mongo v.Eddie/Jarrett 8/18/97 & 9/1/97


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

KENNY said:


> direct me people
> 
> much high very wrestling mood
> 
> brother


Watch the PWG Battle Of Los Angeles 2011. Contender for greatest wrestling event of all time.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Yeah1993 said:


> Eddie/Jericho v. Meng/Barbarian 2/24/97
> Wrath/Mortis v. Glacier/The Cat BATB 97
> Benoit/Mongo v.Eddie/Jarrett 8/18/97 & 9/1/97


:mark: :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I miss bulk-watching WCW. Having every episode of every show on 90s WCW would convince me to keep the WWE network. Especially for shows like Pro and WorldWide from 95-99. You just sometimes have no clue who will show up and get a bunch of dream matches you didn't know were dream matches. 

"Hey motherfucker, have you ever wanted to see Kaz Hayashi against Dave Taylor???" 
"Uhhhh not really BUT NOW I WANT TO :mark:" 
"Sorry bro I lied we have Villano IV against Rick Martel instead" 
"??????????? :mark: :mark: :mark:"

Man I still need to watch the FB97 tag like I promised Cody I would 2 years ago. @Hayley Sedootss did you ever watch Malenko/Eaton from 97?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I love WCW fullstop. Was actually my preferred watch when I was younger. As far as whole show basis goes, it was heaps good.

matches im about to watch again or for the first time in a continuous playlist. i'm going to have fun

WWE Backlash 2004 - Randy Orton vs Mick Foley (Hardcore Match) Full HD
by WWE Tube HD
26:16 More

FULL-LENGTH MATCH - Tag Team Buried Alive Match
by WWE
18:43 More

Undertaker Vs Kane-Inferno Match
by WWE/F ElectrifyingKSR
22:54 More

WWF Summerslam 1995 Shawn Michaels v Razor Ramon
by SchlebuscherBomber
32:23 More

Hardcore Battle Royal for WWE Hardcore Championship (HQ) - WWF WrestleMania 2000
by WWE Video Vault
20:46 More

WWF Royal Rumble 1998: Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker (FULL MATCH)
by TheBITW4Life
31:34 More

WWE Vengeance 2005 - Batista Vs Triple H Hell In A Cell Match
by BBossClanOfficial
32:55 More

FULL-LENGTH MATCH - Raw - Shawn Michaels vs. Shelton Benjamin
by WWE
14:38 More

Crush vs. Shawn Michaels - June 13, 1993
by WWE
14:26 More

FULL-LENGTH MATCH - Raw - Hulk Hogan vs. Ric Flair - WWE Championship Match
by WWE
12:59 More

FULL-LENGTH MATCH - Raw - Goldberg, Shawn Michaels & RVD vs. Batista, Randy Orton & Kane
by WWE
15:18 More

Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels in Japan WWE RAW February 2005
by LandlessPeasants1
11:57 More
WATCHED 
Eddie Guerrero vs Chris Jericho 1997
by WWE
18:10 More

Sting vs Scott Hall - World Heavyweight title - WCW Uncensored 1998
by WCWVintage
13:37 More

Goldberg vs Sting World Heavyweight Championship Match 14/09/1998 (HQ)
by TheJok3rrrV6
10:09 More

FULL-LENGTH MATCH - WCW Saturday Night - American Males vs. Harlem Heat
by WWE
11:54 More

WCW Nitro: October 20th 1997: Goldberg vs. Wrath
by GoldbergClassics
5:09 More

WCW GoldBerg VS BigShow 1/1 (HQ) (WCW Championship Match)
by GoldBergWrestling
5:25 More

THE ROCK Vs ROB VAN DAM - WCW Championship - WWF/WWE 2001
by WWF NETWORK
11:39 More

WCW 1991 Chamber of Horrors match
by steviebreech
11:16 More

Kevin Nash vs Rey Mysterio - 2-22-99
by iCON752
8:37 More

WCW - Bill Goldberg & Sid Vicious vs. Bret Hart & Chris Benoit vs. The Outsiders - Steel Cage Match
by wwferanation
13:36 More

8 13 98 WCW Thunder Lex Luger vs Bret Hart
by wcwarchive
14:26 More

WCW Billy Kidman vs Shane Douglas : Viagra on a Pole match
by Eddie N
8:04 More

DDP vs Jeff Jarrett (WCW Title / Steel Cage Match).mp4
by Tony Gi Bro Wilson
7:55 More

Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Ultimate Dragon on Nitro
by Matthew Keck
7:50 More

FULL-LENGTH MATCH - Raw - 20-Man Battle Royal
by WWE
18:25 More

Chris Benoit vs Bret 'Hitman' Hart - WCW Monday Nitro, 16th November 1998
by WrestlingUploads2013
9:13 More

WCW Starrcade 1996: Rey Mysterio vs. Jushin Thunder Liger
by WWE
14:30 More

Texas Death Match Cactus Jack vs Vader Worldwide April 30th, 1994
by MonsoonClassic
9:25 More

Scott Hall vs. Scott Steiner - 10/20/97 (HQ)
by ScottHall222
9:06 More

Syxx vs. DDP - WCW Monday Nitro 7/28/97 (HQ)
by ScottHall222
7:12 More

Sting & Kevin Nash vs. The Giant & Scott Hall 7-20-98
by The Icon STING
13:27 More

Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Eddie Guerrero - 10/26/1997
by WWE
14:00 More

Funkin' Army vs. Extreme Horsemen - WAR GAMES
by majorleaguewrestling
28:13 More

Lockdown 2008: The Lethal Lockdown Match
by TNA Impact Wrestling
31:28 More

Eddie Guerrero vs. Chavo Guerrero - 7/12/98
by WWE
20:48 More
WATCHED 
WCW Thunder pre-show - Providence, RI - 2/4/99
by The WCW Feed
55:53 More

JBL vs Booker T - Survivor Series 11/14/04
by WWE
20:28 More

WWE St. Valentines Day Massacre Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Vince McMahon Full Match 720p
by raw wwe network
27:15 More

Undertaker vs Kane WWF Championship Match (Stone Cold Guest Referee)
by WWE/TNA Classics™
34:54 More

FULL-LENGTH MATCH: SmackDown - Triple H vs. The Rock - WWE Championship
by WWE
13:40 More

TRIPLE H Vs KANE - STEEL CAGE MATCH - WWF/WWE 1999
by WWF NETWORK
15:01 More

Stone Cold Steve Austin vs The Undertaker WWF Championship WWF Raw 1999
by FuedsIn WWE
15:43 More

WWF Summerslam 2000 - TLC - Tag Team Titles Match - Dudley Boyz vs Hardy Boys ys Edge & Christian


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kenny idk if you watched it the last time I randomly mentioned it but Mankind vs Owen Hart from early 1997 is always great for a quick watch. Vader vs Owen Hart from ONO (1997) too.

Can't go wrong w/anything w/Tajiri. vs UNDERTAKER in late 2001. :mark:



Yeah1993 said:


> I miss bulk-watching WCW. Having every episode of every show on 90s WCW would convince me to keep the WWE network. Especially for shows like Pro and WorldWide from 95-99. You just sometimes have no clue who will show up and get a bunch of dream matches you didn't know were dream matches.
> 
> "Hey motherfucker, have you ever wanted to see Kaz Hayashi against Dave Taylor???"
> "Uhhhh not really BUT NOW I WANT TO :mark:"
> ...


I like the idea of mentioning my username being completely botched like it could still work. Maybe as a staff perk. :hmm:

WATCH THE MATCH. Did you cut the network off already? You could have easily watched it in brilliant quality, then stopped the free trial. 

uhhh. I want to say I did, but I don't have too much knowledge of it. Most of all I care for w/Dean in 1997 is p. much tag team stuff. Or guaranteed if he worked vs Rey. Those always were p. neat.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

need thoughts on 
Funkin' Army vs. Extreme Horsemen - WAR GAMES

never watched, have no idea what to expect


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

Srdjan99 said:


> Dunno if you like HBK or not, but I was surfing the web last night for some underrated bouts of his and found this match with Flair that I surprisingly have not seen before. Great bout, not as good as their WM match, but still a very good wrestling match
> 
> https://youtu.be/_L-LAp8PoZQ


Great match, it was funny when the announcers were talking about how good it would be to watch Shawn as a singles competitor. The end was rather strange, but it was so much fun, for me, the two best american in-ring performers of all time. ***1/4


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

:lmao

Please change your name to Hayley Sedootss. Such a good laugh.

On topic, I'm getting excited for these Cena open challenges every week. Let's see who we get tonight.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> :lmao
> 
> Please change your name to Hayley Sedootss. Such a good laugh.
> 
> On topic, I'm getting excited for these Cena open challenges every week. Let's see who we get tonight.


I'm guessing Harper which could be great.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*The Steiner Brothers vs Kensuke Sasaki & Hiroshi Tanahashi (Japan 05.02.2002)*

w/ Chyna as Special Referee

x2mjur6

Bit random but saw it on a Steiner Japan comp.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Yeah1993 said:


> *Eddie/Jericho v. Meng/Barbarian 2/24/97*
> Wrath/Mortis v. Glacier/The Cat BATB 97
> Benoit/Mongo v.Eddie/Jarrett 8/18/97 & 9/1/97


A recommended Faces of Fear match? :hmm: I'm there.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

_Eddie/Jericho v. Meng/Barbarian 2/24/97_ is one of my favorite WCW tag matches, but im a big mark for the FOF, just wish they could have got more, maybe a title run.

_vs Benoit and Steve McMichael _is another good match of theirs.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

As a couple of big tough badasses who just mow through people, they're the kind of tag team I usually love in theory but end up indifferent towards in practice. But early '97 Eddie and Jericho definitely seem like the kind of fiery, undersized opponents who could get something great out of them.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Jessie McKay is in the WWE. My life is now complete :banderas

I really hope they do good use of her. She's damn good in the babyface role. AND FUCK THE HATERS IF THERE'S ANY. The prospect of seeing Jessie vs Sasha Banks, or Jessie vs Bayley is just... :zayn3


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

_*Eddie Guerrero & Chris Jericho vs. the Faces of Fear *(WCW, 2/24/'97)_
Less than 10 minutes of straight-up formula. That said, that's a good window of time for Meng and Barbarian to be compelling monsters in, and with young Jericho playing FIP and prime Eddie as the hot tag, you're reminded that formula done well pretty much rules. A thoroughly enjoyable and respectable ★★★ affair.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

So, I need some Dick Murdoch recs. I've been watching so much Stan Hansen and Terry Funk lately, damnit I need some new Texans. I hear Murdoch can either be one of the best wrestlers ever or he can just be a clown and screw around, so I don't want to waste time watching Murdoch do his "3 Stooges Routine" as JR and Watts would call it. I want to see him impale fools with his brainbuster and be a reckless bad ass. But I don't know where to start.

The only things I saw that intrigued me where

Vs Barry Windham 7/11/87
Vs Barry Windham 2/16/85
Vs Jumbo Tsuruta 2/23/80
Vs The Nightmare 7/14/85
Vs Bob Orton Bullrope Match 1989
Vs Butch Reed 10/14/85
Vs The Great Muta 9/29/89

Does anyone have an opinion on any of these matches? I just googled "Dick Murdoch vs" and clicked on "videos" and these are the ones that caught my eye.

P.S Cal you underrated Finlay/Benoit JD 06'. Top 10 match in company history


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Are you only looking for singles matches? Because there's a New Japan tag title match (or is it tag league final? Both? Can't remember) with Murdoch and Adonis vs. Inoki and Fujinami that's pretty awesome by my reckoning. 12/5/'84 is the date.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I'd imagine the Windham/Murdoch WWF match not being something you'd particularly enjoy. It's a great companion piece to their later match and shows just how different wrestlers had to work depending on arena size and promotion (their WWF match had them "over-exaggerating" and playing up for the guys in the bleachers, and giving some great facials for the guys in the front row, all at the same time). Good match, and I'm seemingly the highest fan of it here, but I'd imagine you want the best.

There's a tag match against The Lightning Express where Murdoch just stabs motherfuckers with a pencil. Sick bastard gets enjoyment from it, too. I'm sure @Yeah1993 will have a shower of praise for the Butch Reed match (22/09/1985)*. He also potatoes a half-bald Killer Karl Kox in Japan for 20 minutes (09/12/1976).


*Okay, that's probably more God of Cunt's domain not Yeah's. Dunno what Andy3000Names goes by now so I can't tag him.


EDIT: if you need anything of his uploaded, just ask. I probably have it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The only Murdoch match I've watched was vs Bruiser Body (NJ 11/22/1985). Wild brawl that I did enjoy.

Murdoch is one guy I might check out myself in the future once I've gone through a lot of other stuff.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Watch that Butch Reed match. Don't want the Windham WWE match. Might as well check out the rest of that list. But please not that Windham WWE match. Oh, and he had some good matches with Dibiase in 1985. There's also a match with Inoki in 1986 worth looking into. 

The drawing point behind Murdoch that made me impressed by him was the fact that he sold so well for a guy that for all intents and purposes could have gotten away with no-selling his opponent's offense because of how fat he was. I loved how he would grimace and rotate his shoulder back in place or use his hands to get back on his feet when he's hurt. Great talker as well and he could work both brawls and mat wrestling clinics. The one flaw that people seem to have for him though is his work ethic. In particular, Murdoch was notorious for having off nights during house shows and he would phone it in occasionally.

I read this funny story about this one time a Chicago crowd in the 70s would chant "We want blood" to wrestlers at events. None of the wrestlers on that card except for Murdoch bothered to interact with the crowd. What Dick did in response to the crowd chant was pull out a blade from his trunks and slice his head open right then and there :lmao. Crazy dude.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

No zoom and shot from one of the back rows, so you can't see a thing. Probably for the best.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

ATF said:


> Jessie McKay is in the WWE. My life is now complete :banderas
> 
> I really hope they do good use of her. She's damn good in the babyface role. AND FUCK THE HATERS IF THERE'S ANY. The prospect of seeing Jessie vs Sasha Banks, or Jessie vs Bayley is just... :zayn3


Holy shit, this is weird for me to read. Coincidentally, just last night I was looking at her Wikipedia page (out of curiosity as to her whereabouts these days) and now I'm seeing this. 

/mind-boggle

I haven't followed SHIMMER in over, I wanna say, 3 or 4 years but she was definitely was one of my favourites. I haven't seen any of her work since then but from what I recall of her early SHIMMER days, she had a fun gimmick and really knew how to get the crowd behind her. 

Really glad for her. She's young, attractive and can work. Jessie vs Sasha needs to happen. Sasha is just a dick (pussy?) of a heel and you just can't help but not feel sympathetic towards seeing McKay getting her ass kicked. The future of WWE looks so bright.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Ryan193 said:


> I'm guessing Harper which could be great.


I've been hoping for that since they started doing this.

If they're not gonna do much with Harper, they could at least use him for longish exhibition type matches on RAW.

Also, can't believe that the WWE gave Bray vs. Harper and Bray vs. Rowan away for free on Smackdown, with absolutely no build-up.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Vs Barry Windham 7/11/87 - All time classic.
> Vs Barry Windham 2/16/85 - I've always really liked this.
> Vs Jumbo Tsuruta 2/23/80 - Not sure I ever got to see this. Think it wasn't out until years after the Murdoch set was done.
> Vs The Nightmare 7/14/85 - More "fun" than great, but "fun".
> ...


Edit thoughts into ^^^^. Few recs I'd give to maybe try: 

Murdoch/Inoki 12/4/71
Muroch & Dusty/Robinson & Muraco 10/6/73
Murdch/Killer Karl Kox 12/9/76
Murodch & Adonis/Wild Samoans 6/16/84
Murdoch/Afa 10/22/84
Murdoch & Adonis/Jack & Jerry Brisco 12/28/84
Murdoch/Reed 9/22/85 (all time classic IMO. Best headlock match ever)
And the Inoki/Fujinami tag Bruce L brought up.

Most of those I may not have seen in five years but I'm not worried at all abut them holding up. Well a few people have talked badly about the Murdoch/Adonis team since then so maybe a couple. 

I can't wait to watch Murdoch/Khan for the pre-80s thing. 



KENNY said:


> need thoughts on
> Funkin' Army vs. Extreme Horsemen - WAR GAMES
> 
> never watched, have no idea what to expect


From MLW? That company has like maybe ten matches I thought were really worth seeing again. I think three involved La Parka.



Hayley Seydoux said:


> WATCH THE MATCH. Did you cut the network off already? You could have easily watched it in brilliant quality, then stopped the free trial.


I know, how did I not think I should have watched that? Goddamn it.



funnyfaces1 said:


> None of the wrestlers on that card except for Murdoch bothered to interact with the crowd. What Dick did in response to the crowd chant was pull out a blade from his trunks and slice his head open right then and there :lmao. Crazy dude.


He always had a shit ton of personality like that. :lol One of my favourite moments is when kicks the flowers into the crowd that are given to wrestlers by the kimono girls before the match. And in the Afa match above he calls Afa a "cave dweller" or something.

I don't know if I've ever seen Dick phone it in, but a criticism I've seen him get - esp while tagging w/ Adonis - is that he'll just try to get "get his shit in" before worrying about anything else.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Thought BNB/Cena was pretty great, ***1/2.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

That Cena/Barrett match might have been my least favourite US Open so far. Also, OH BOY A CHAIN MATCH


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Great match between Barrett/Cena. Both men's best singles match this year so far. Also, best US Title open so far. Crowd definitely helped add a bit to it. Not as good as their HIAC 2010, but still great. ***1/2


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Edit thoughts into ^^^^. Few recs I'd give to maybe try:
> 
> Murdoch/Inoki 12/4/71
> Muroch & Dusty/Robinson & Muraco 10/6/73
> ...



Aw man thanks a bunch I really appreciate. Excited to watch some Dirty/Tricky Dick Murdoch now :mark: :mark:


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Sooo the Network finally has some more RAWs up.. all of 98, what can I expect?


----------



## BrockandBryanMARK (Mar 9, 2015)

Stone Cold! Stone Cold! Stone Cold!


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Surprised to see ***1/2 thrown out for Cena/Barrett. I thought it was good, but not great.

This Ziggler/Neville match, though...


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Good golly that Ziggler vs. Neville match was outstanding.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Ziggler/Neville was really good... fucking commercial break though. Also was a bit spotty, but overall a really good match. Don't know why they're jobbing Neville out. I understand doing the "good showing in defeat" against the champ last week, but no reason to now have him lose when he's not facing total jobbers like Axel. 

But yeah, really fun match. ***1/4. So far the only two matches to be given any real time were quality. Well, there was the handicap match... which I wasn't really paying attention to tbh. Shame we didn't just get a full Orton vs. Cesaro match.

Also for what it was, Kane/Rollins was fun too.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well, RAW wasn't a _complete_ waste of 3 hours tonight. Thought Cena/Barrett was a lot of fun due to the crowd. Probably like ***. Still liked the Ambrose match more. The fuck is this springboard stunner Cena is doing now?

Naomi heel turn was cool. Something different at least. That Diva Battle Royal though? Good lord that was bad. My girlfriend roots for the Divas to succeed so badly but even she said how embarrassing it was. None of them know how to fall out of the ring. Natalya was eliminated first by ROSA MENDES. Jesus...

Ridiculous amounts of filler matches and worthless 2 minute contests. Randy Orton beat BOTH the tag champions in like 5 minutes or less. PTP promo was hilarious as always. Ziggler vs. Neville was fun from what I remember. Was hardly paying attention by that point. 450 from the barricade though. DAMN. Kane stuff was fine. No one would care if he turned face though.


----------



## speedkills (Jul 21, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Good golly that Ziggler vs. Neville match was outstanding.


Just watching it now and wow, what a fun match. Reminds me of the great cruiser matches we watched on the first hour of WCW Nitro every show. Raw should have at least one of those matches every damn week imo.

It's easy, they have so much talent on the middle of the card. Just take two every week and take the handcuffs off and let them go wild for 10-12 minutes and give us something we can look forward to and count on every week.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

@The Rabid Wolverine - idk if Muta vs Murdoch happened more than once, but I'm p. sure it is the power hour match that is really good. The kind of gem you'd hope for from a lower TV show in the late 80's/early 90's type stuff.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

_*WWE Championship match
John Cena (c) vs. Chris Jericho *(_SummerSlam '05_)_
Damn good stuff right here. My exposure to post-WWE title win/pre-superhero Cena is limited at this point, so this was quite an eye-opener. And heel Jericho needs no explanation. Great match. ★★★¾


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Can I get some recs of matches that involve two blokes 'throwing bombs' at each other? I'd imagine a lot of Japan stuff, which is perfectly fine with me.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> Can I get some recs of matches that involve two blokes 'throwing bombs' at each other? I'd imagine a lot of Japan stuff, which is perfectly fine with me.


Well, there is always Vader/Hansen from the Tokyo Dome. That's one of my favorites of that type of match but I'm sure you've seen that before.

Anything Hansen/Funk and it's likely to be bombs away, but especially the 4/14/83 match. Hansen said on JR's podcast that his matches with Terry during that time were about 90% real competition, just with a worked finish, because they were competing against each other to get be the top gaijin and Terry had trained Hansen.

Actually, JBL/Taker from I believe No Mercy 2004, the casket match, now that is one bad ass fight. The crowd was mediocre at best, but man those two big Texans whooped the shit out of each other in that bout. I really liked it.

Hansen/Andre is another. Dunno if you have seen that but I finally got off my ass last month and watched it and boy did it ever live up to the hype. Absolutely incredible.

Oh yea, Sgt. Slaughter vs Pat Patterson, Alley Fight MSG 1981. That's an oldie but goodie. Of course the Boot Camp match with Shiek at MSG 1984 is even better but I'm sure you've seen that. Oh, Benoit/Sullivan BatB 1996 is really awesome, the one where Dusty hollers "THERE IS A WOMAN IN THE MENS RESTROOM!"

If I think of some more I'll send you a PM. My brain isn't working well right now it's too early


----------



## NatP (Aug 9, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Hansen/Andre is another. Dunno if you have seen that but I finally got off my ass last month and watched it and boy did it ever live up to the hype. Absolutely incredible.


Wow, just finished watching it right now and I'm blown away. I've always liked Andre but I had no idea he could be so... Mobile? I'm super impressed, that was a super fun match, does he have any other matches that are worth watching?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks Chris. Ive seen one Hansen/Funk match from All Japan, but im not sure on the date, could have been the one you mentioned, and ive never seen Hansen/Andre, so ill check that one out later.

I expect Hayley to come in and shout out 'Kawada, Kawada, Kawada'


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I've been watching a hell of a lot of wrestling lately. I'm about to ask something which some people might not react well to. I need every help and direction with this. I'm interested in watching anything and everything VADER. I guess you can call it ignorance but I didn't really appreciate it him when I was younger but definitely admire him based on what people have spoken about. People in here already know my interests, wrestlers, favourites and how little in comparison I've watched then a lot of people here. There's plenty of talent I need to watch still, but Vader for me is something I've been intrigued with for quite some time now.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

KENNY said:


> I've been watching a hell of a lot of wrestling lately. I'm about to ask something which some people might not react well to. I need every help and direction with this. I'm interested in watching anything and everything VADER. I guess you can call it ignorance but I didn't really appreciate it him when I was younger but definitely admire him based on what people have spoken about. People in here already know my interests, wrestlers, favourites and how little in comparison I've watched then a lot of people here. There's plenty of talent I need to watch still, but Vader for me is something I've been intrigued with for quite some time now.


Well, my friend, you've certainly come to the right place hahaha. Me, Zeppers, and Yeah1993 are probably the biggest Vader fans on the forum. He's the best.

I'll just list all the classics, most of them are well known but since you haven't seen anything since you were a kid might as well start with the best!

Vader vs Sting (SuperBrawl III, Great American Bash 1992, Starrcade 1992, Slamboree 1994)

Vader vs Ricky Steamboat Human Cage WCW Saturday Night 1993

Vader vs Ric Flair Starrcade 1993

Vader vs Cactus Jack (WCW Saturday Night 1993, Halloween Havoc 1993, WCW WorldWide 1993)

Vader vs Antonio Inoki Tokyo Dome NJPW 1996

Vader vs The Boss Spring Stampede 1994

Vader vs Dustin Rhodes COTC Nov. 1994 (my personal favorite Vader match)

Vader/Steve Austin vs Ric Flair/Arn Anderson WCW Saturday Night 1993

Vader vs The Undertaker (IYH: Canadian Stampede, Royal Rumble 1997)

Vader vs Owen Hart One Night Only 1997

Vader vs Stan Hansen NJPW/AJPW Tokyo Dome Show 1990 (where Vader gets his eye popped out)

Vader vs Mitsuhara Misawa (AJPW, Triple Crown match 10/30/99 and another 2-3 excellent bouts they had during his AJPW run)

Vader vs Takada UWFi 

That should give you plenty to catch up on


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Well, my friend, you've certainly come to the right place hahaha. Me, Zeppers, and Yeah1993 are probably the biggest Vader fans on the forum. He's the best.
> 
> I'll just list all the classics, most of them are well known but since you haven't seen anything since you were a kid might as well start with the best!
> 
> ...


I can confidently say that I haven't watched anything from here, but I do remember the match against Owen Hart to an extent just from knowing I watched the product at that time. Extremely looking forward to all bouts vs Sting as well as all matches vs Cactus Jack, that already has me excited enough. Thank you for all that, much appreciated. They all look fantastic for different reasons. I'm curious then for all the Vader marks in this thread, who did he have the best chemistry with? Who did he have the best matches with? Vader vs Misawa interests me a damn lot, as I've never really stepped outside of the "norms" in promotions wise, sticking to WWF/WCW most of the time.

Does he get a good match out of Hogan? I noticed just by searching through videos there's a match with him in 1995.

How about against Ron Simmons?

What's the best place to watch Vader matches?

edit - i've just taken a look on dailymotion, search vader, "Its Vader Time" comes up with 111 videos. 

:mark:

http://www.dailymotion.com/playlist/xecmi_Oldvitor_it-s-vader-time/1#video=xn402m


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

RE: Vader - I'll add the following:

5/2/'99 - vs. Misawa, AJPW Triple Crown (for my money their best match)

5/1/'92 - w/ Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Keiji Mutoh & Hiroshi Hase, IWGP tag titles

2/27/'00 - vs. Kenta Kobashi, AJPW Triple Crown

8/10/'91 - vs. Keiji Mutoh, NJPW G1 Climax (the only cap of this is a high-quality handheld, but it's totally worth it)

12/5/'98 - AJPW, Real World Tag League final, w/ Stan Hansen vs. Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama

1/23/'00 - AJPW, vs. Jun Akiyama

2/17/'00 - AJPW, vs. Toshiaki Kawada

I believe he's also generally considered the MVP of the "Final Four" match with Bret, Austin, and Taker from the In Your House ppv of that name from February '97.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Vader :mark:

Another chance to post this then:

*Big Van Vader vs. Cactus Jack (WCW Saturday Night 04.17.1993) (Full Unedited Version from Mick Foley DVD) *

*Includes aftermath and Vader/Race Interview*

x2012gz


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

So here's the deal: From like the end of 2002 through mid-'09 or so, I was on a near-total hiatus from so much as following what was going on in WWE. I'd check out the most pimped matches, if I could find them, but only the absolute most hyped ones. I'm really going back in earnest now, including a few years after I was still looking a little deeper but avoiding certain talents for whatever reason. My questions are as follows:

1. Does anybody have the Jericho/Michaels ladder match from No Mercy '08? I've seen it, of course, but shockingly (to me) I don't seem to have it. (If anybody has it with the opening video package, so much the better.)

2. What are the real must-see matches from Mark Henry's "Hall of Pain" run?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)




----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Ah... Sorry, should've specified: All the ones on YouTube have bizarre audio/video warping. No big deal; I'm sure I can find a worth-buying DVD that has it on.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Why can't people upload properly lol. There is another on YT but the aspect ratio is off and has watermarks plastered all over it. The actual PPV is really good, so id recommend grabbing it if you can TBH,


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Brock said:


> Why can't people upload properly lol. There is another on YT but the aspect ratio is off and has watermarks plastered all over it. The actual PPV is really good, so id recommend grabbing it if you can TBH,


That's what I'm thinking; I know HHH/J. Hardy is great, and I've heard good things about M. Hardy/Henry and Taker/Show as well.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No Mercy 2008 is pretty awesome. Was the first RAMBLE I did! And here I am, 100 rambles later. Suppose I should like, carry on with those...


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

KENNY said:


> I can confidently say that I haven't watched anything from here, but I do remember the match against Owen Hart to an extent just from knowing I watched the product at that time. Extremely looking forward to all bouts vs Sting as well as all matches vs Cactus Jack, that already has me excited enough. Thank you for all that, much appreciated. They all look fantastic for different reasons. I'm curious then for all the Vader marks in this thread, who did he have the best chemistry with? Who did he have the best matches with? Vader vs Misawa interests me a damn lot, as I've never really stepped outside of the "norms" in promotions wise, sticking to WWF/WCW most of the time.
> 
> Does he get a good match out of Hogan? I noticed just by searching through videos there's a match with him in 1995.
> 
> ...


Well, I'd say he had his best chemistry with Sting. Those two never had a single match that was bad, they were all atleast really good, and their 4 PPV matches are all GREAT, GREAT matches. After that, I'd probably say Misawa. The 5/2 and 10/30 matches are just classics. Misawa was really goddamn reckless and Vader took full advantage of Misawa's death wish by tossing him all over the place and clobbering him to death.

The very first Vader/Hogan match was actually pretty good, I BELIEVE it was Bash at the Beach 1995, but don't quote me on that. Their strap match however, good lord, that's easily the worst Vader match I've ever seen and one of the worst matches period. So stay the hell away from that.

Just watch Vader/Dustin COTC from Nov. 1994. If you don't love that match, their is no point watching any more Vader, really. That match is just perfection, Dustin is as good a baby face in that one as you will see, and Vader truly is the perfect monster heel, he bumps and sells and gets Dustin over like a million bucks but stays a true monster and threat throughout. One of my all time favorites, and it's only about 12 minutes or so so its a breeze to watch.



Brock said:


> Vader :mark:
> 
> Another chance to post this then:
> 
> ...


Definitely do NOT skip this. Watched this again the other night and man it was still just as awe inspiring as the first time I watched it. As stiff and physical as anything you'll likely ever see, you can hear Vader breaking Mick's nose with one of his punches. Mick's face looks like hamburger meat when it's over, and the match aftermath is incredible.



Bruce L said:


> So here's the deal: From like the end of 2002 through mid-'09 or so, I was on a near-total hiatus from so much as following what was going on in WWE. I'd check out the most pimped matches, if I could find them, but only the absolute most hyped ones. I'm really going back in earnest now, including a few years after I was still looking a little deeper but avoiding certain talents for whatever reason. My questions are as follows:
> 
> 1. Does anybody have the Jericho/Michaels ladder match from No Mercy '08? I've seen it, of course, but shockingly (to me) I don't seem to have it. (If anybody has it with the opening video package, so much the better.)
> 
> 2. What are the real must-see matches from Mark Henry's "Hall of Pain" run?


I'm going to widen this to include some other must see stuff from Henry outside of what he did in 2011-2012, because you said you stopped watching in 2002.

Henry vs Punk Raw 4/2/12 ****1/4
Henry vs Punk No DQ Raw 4/16/12 ****
Henry vs Big Show Vengeance 2011 ***3/4
Henry vs Randy Orton Night of Champions 2011 ****
Henry vs Daniel Bryan Cage Match Smackdown Dec. 2011 ****1/4
Henry vs John Cena Money in the Bank 2013 ***3/4
Henry vs Benoit SD! May 2006 ****1/4
Henry vs Finlay Belfast Brawl Armageddon 2008 ****
Henry vs Finlay ECW TV 2008 ****1/4 (Yeah1993 knows the date I cant remember)
Henry vs Matt Hardy ECW TV 2008 **** (same as above, can't remember the exact date)


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

From strictly the Hall of Pain era, I guess that sprint against Orton on NOC 2011. He had a good match against Sheamus at Summerslam IIRC.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Google "Mark Henry 2011". Don't think I've found a bad match yet. Same goes for 2008. If I hadn't done WWE 2010 I'd do 2008 (and maybe 09) ECW next.

As for Vader, someone around here

[hide]might still sell the Vader comp for pretty cheap.[/hide]

Then again, a bad Vader match is rare anyway. I mean, can I THINK of one?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brock said:


> Thanks Chris. Ive seen one Hansen/Funk match from All Japan, but im not sure on the date, could have been the one you mentioned, and ive never seen Hansen/Andre, so ill check that one out later.
> 
> I expect Hayley to come in and shout out 'Kawada, Kawada, Kawada'


This is a given. KAWADA.

Did you ever see Kawada vs Foley from HUSTLE for the Triple Crown? Foley was in that prime shape following the 2004 stuff vs Orton & it really shows. This is a fairly lowkey Kawada plug, but I guess that is kind of the incentive.

---------

As for Mark Henry HoP goodies. He has a 2 minute match vs Ezekial Jackson in 2012 on Smackdown & it literally is p. amazing. Sweet, found it.






There's a SMILIN' Mark Henry cameo in this too. And Booker is great on commentary in this match.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Really liked RAW a lot. I saw in the RAW thread that a lot of people were negative about it. Found it watchable pretty much the whole way through, even the divas stuff (excluding the actual match).

There was more wrestling than there's been recently, and I thought that Seth was killing it on all cylinders last night. Seemed the most natural in his heel role than he's ever been, maybe.

I think that when he laid all the way back in the recliner, it was unexpected and spontaneous. Orton seemed to be trying to fight a smile.

Loved the Neville and Ziggler match. So wish I hadn't gotten spoiled here (including even knowing that that was the match that was gonna happen). The commentators were right that Neville seems more controlled than most high fliers. His precision is insane.


----------



## BrockandBryanMARK (Mar 9, 2015)

Anybody have a link for the Slaughter/Sheik Boot Camp match? I see one from Landover but can't find the MSG match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Aw damn, how is that match not online? Might be the best WWE match ever. Oh shit I'm not positive I even have it in any form. This could suck.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jheri plz don't no sell Henry vs Zeke.

This can't be Fall Brawl '97 again.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Jheri plz don't no sell Henry vs Zeke.
> 
> This can't be Fall Brawl '97 again.


Henry match + Booker T commentary = (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

_"This is what we call in the hood *pause b/c FIGHT* a...BEATDOWN"_

Booker man.


----------



## BrockandBryanMARK (Mar 9, 2015)

Kevin Sullivan said that?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

^
:lmao :lol

I remember soon after NoC 2011, there was a segment on Smackdown where HHH and Teddy Long handed the WHC over to Mark Henry while the Smackdown roster looked on. Henry went on to deliver a passionate speech about how it took him 15 years to get the title and that it would take 15 years for someone to take it from him. Then he singled out Ezekiel Jackson as a non-believer and doubter of him :lol. Gotta love the potshots directed towards Zeke from Henry. Then Christian interrupted and later on we got a lumberjack match between Christian and Henry that I recommend.

But yeah/Yeah. Ezekiel Jackson's current run in Lucha Underground is killer. Dude is having good matches against midgets, women, and handicap situations. Wouldn't mind him coming back to the WWE even though he's found his niche.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I should check out the Ezekiel stuff from Lucha, sounds mad.






every time this played i was always glued to the television


edit - some :lmao to look at


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Gonna have to catch Main Event this week:



Spoiler: Main event from Main Event (you like that?)



Rusev vs. Dolph Ziggler


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Unfortunately, 99% positive that'll be ass and not worked the way it should.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Squash?

Also, was anyone a fan of KRONIK?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I liked Kronik. Fun match vs Palumbo & O'Haire following Sin in 2001. Shame their WWF match ended up being hilarious. Botched chinbreaker & Taker shouts "FUCK" w/o even trying to hide it.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

There's so much entertainment to watch from 2000-2001 from WCW, and parts of '99 too. I don't remember all of it, but watching some of it again is hysterical. Goldberg as a heel, SCOTT STEINER portrayed as a face? :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

2001 doesn't really have too much humor. It's a p. solid product, pardon lets say the time Steiner gets a promo b/c his mic work is just infamous. Or the Steiner vs Nash match from SuperBrawl in general. Or Dusty Rhodes being Dusty Rhodes & eating 50 burritos so he can fart on Ric Flair. But the other two years are joke central. If you can stomach the product. I'm saying that more towards the Russo 1999 - Sullivan 2000 phase b/c that stuff was nearly unwatchable. The end of Starrcade 1999 is well worth seeing though. :lmao


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Speaking of Starrcade '99 I read the reviews on some matches.

Hardcore title – Norman Smiley (c) v Meng

It sounds bad, but just based on Smileys reactions alone I want to see it. :lmao

Vampiro v Oklahoma

^^ that seems to get pretty good reviews from what I've seen. 

Crowbar on a pole match – Diamond Dallas Page v David Flair

^^ :lmao :lmao poor DDP. 

Powerbomb match – Kevin Nash v Sid Vicious

sounds like a 5 star classic. :ti

US title – Chris Benoit (c) v Jeff Jarrett

sounds good.

Just read up on the finish to the whole event. :lmao I don't remember it at all, gotta go watch again. Holy fucking shit :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ferrara beating up Vampiro for the majority of that "match" & then the Misfits getting involved :lmao


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:lmao :lmao Souled Out 2000 looks like the worst PPV of all time. Complete and utter torture by the sounds of it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

main event is better than just about most of the Russo shows that came before it, though. :lmao


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Jheri plz don't no sell Henry vs Zeke.
> 
> This can't be Fall Brawl '97 again.


I think I've seen Henry/Zeke three times. :lol

edit - Meng/Smiley in a hardcore match?????? WATCHING NOW.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I just needed confirmation. They had another match in 2011 too. 

The ending to the Smiley vs Meng match is probably the best booked finish by Russo in WCW. No hyperbole.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Yeah1993 said:


> I think I've seen Henry/Zeke three times. :lol
> 
> edit - Meng/Smiley in a hardcore match?????? WATCHING NOW.


If you find it, link it here. 

smiley was a guilty pleasure of mine back then, not many people liked him or would say they did, he was hilarious :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SCREAMIN' Norman Smiley was one of the best things about the last year or so of WCW. The match with Funk is :lmao. Someone should put together a comp of all Smiley's hardcore matches .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Can't find it, unfortunately. Found a TV match between them though.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3wfnj_meng-vs-norman-smiley_sport
And a three-way w/the Barbarian !!!!
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3uyam_norman-smiley-vs-meng-vs-the-barbar_sport

Dailymotion is being a dick to me right now so I can't check them out.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I have that MSG Bootcamp match if you want it (and don't have it).


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

#ROOT said:


> SCREAMIN' Norman Smiley was one of the best things about the last year or so of WCW. The match with Funk is :lmao. Someone should put together a comp of all Smiley's hardcore matches .
























BIG POPPA PUMP AND NORMAN SMILEY IN THE SAME RING :mark:




















 - ALEX WRIGHT


True GOAT. :mark:



Yeah1993 said:


> Can't find it, unfortunately. Found a TV match between them though.
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3wfnj_meng-vs-norman-smiley_sport
> And a three-way w/the Barbarian !!!!
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3uyam_norman-smiley-vs-meng-vs-the-barbar_sport
> ...


:mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*SWS 6/10/1991 *
Gauntlet Tag match
*The Rockers vs Power & Glory vs Randy Savage & Genichiro Tenryu vs Haku & Yoshiaki Yatsu vs Ishikawa & Great Kabuki*






Came across this, never heard of it before. Some really good sections, esp the Savage/Tenryu stuff.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Different matches! 

I'm all too used to house show recordings showing the same, move-for-move action but not here. There's similarities in the premise and timings but, what I've watched of the two, they're different (one focusing on a headlock [Birmingham], the other on arm work to start)












Someone wanted Stardust vs Goldust? @Ryan193, I believe? Their house show matches are exactly the same, so stick with this one as it has the best camera.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

I seem to remember the cruiserweight division absolutely caught fire in 2001. Sugar Shane ruled the proverbial school, and I'm still bitterly disappointed that neither WWE nor TNA, once it started, really ran with the Prime Time/Kid Romeo tag team after WCW shut its doors.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> This is a given. KAWADA.
> 
> Did you ever see Kawada vs Foley from HUSTLE for the Triple Crown? Foley was in that prime shape following the 2004 stuff vs Orton & it really shows. This is a fairly lowkey Kawada plug, but I guess that is kind of the incentive.
> 
> ...


Foley wrestled Kawada in 2004? Why the hell have I never heard about this? Does it live up to the potential? I remember how excited I was when I heard Brock had wrestled Nakamura only to feel utterly destroyed when I saw the actual match. I don't want to relive that if at all possible.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

above person who posted stardust 

is this any good


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Foley wrestled Kawada in 2004? Why the hell have I never heard about this? Does it live up to the potential? I remember how excited I was when I heard Brock had wrestled Nakamura only to feel utterly destroyed when I saw the actual match. I don't want to relive that if at all possible.


It was meant to be Kawada/Goldberg, but Bill got injured so Mick stepped in. One can only dream on what Toshi/Bill would have been.

I'd kill for Brock/Nakamura now. :mark:


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

KENNY said:


> above person who posted stardust
> 
> is this any good


Never watched it. Orton is not a wrestler I go out my way to see. If you enjoyed the pair's PPV matches I'd imagine you liking this. Rollins is fun/quite good live. There might have been interference on Rollins behalf if I recall from skipping through. Could be confusing it with Rollins/Cena in Malaysia, though.

Posted your match a few pages back, so I'm sure someone checked it out.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Seconding the recommendation for Kawada/Foley. Actually, pretty much Kawada's entire '04-'05 Triple Crown reign is pretty choice. To keep it slightly on WWE-related topic, there's also an awesome defense against Jamal/Umaga.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Goldust vs Stardust from a house show? K, this might make up for the flop from Fast Lane. 



Brock said:


> *SWS 6/10/1991 *
> Gauntlet Tag match
> *The Rockers vs Power & Glory vs Randy Savage & Genichiro Tenryu vs Haku & Yoshiaki Yatsu vs Ishikawa & Great Kabuki*
> 
> ...


I started to watch this, then got caught up in something else. I'll come back to it b/c HAKU, SAVAGE & TENRYU TEAM, & ROCKERS. Bonus points for Kabuki.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Foley wrestled Kawada in 2004? Why the hell have I never heard about this? Does it live up to the potential? I remember how excited I was when I heard Brock had wrestled Nakamura only to feel utterly destroyed when I saw the actual match. I don't want to relive that if at all possible.


It's really good. Mick was trying, Kawada was trying; no reason it couldn't have worked. iirc that entire HUSTLE show was one of my favorites. Trusting Brock in Japan was always a gamble. That's why Nakamura worked 100x better vs Bob Sapp. Gosh those New Japan dark days. Yikes.



Brock said:


> It was meant to be Kawada/Goldberg, but Bill got injured so Mick stepped in. One can only dream on what Toshi/Bill would have been.
> 
> I'd kill for Brock/Nakamura now. :mark:


Kawada vs Goldberg sounds great. Unsure how it would have been then, but Goldberg would have had a MUCH better opponent in Kawada than Ogawa (whom he worked vs on the first HUSTLE show) so that's extremely promising. I'm actually glad I got Mick instead though. To me, that's more "did you think this would ever happen?"




Bruce L said:


> Seconding the recommendation for Kawada/Foley. Actually, pretty much Kawada's entire '04-'05 Triple Crown reign is pretty choice. To keep it slightly on WWE-related topic, there's also an awesome defense against Jamal/Umaga.


Damn. I've actually never seen that. Sounds brilliant.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Damn. I've actually never seen that. Sounds brilliant.


x4crzj

I have a massive Kawada comp, and this isn't on it.  im a big Umaga fan too, so ill grab this myself when i can.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

IT'S ON.

btw @KENNY, mate plz keep it to about 1-2 embedded videos per post from now on. Thanks.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Henry vs Benoit SD! May 2006 ****1/4
> Henry vs Finlay ECW TV 2008 ****1/4 (Yeah1993 knows the date I cant remember)
> Henry vs Matt Hardy ECW TV 2008 **** (same as above, can't remember the exact date)


You wouldn't happen to have any of these, would you? Preferably not in Spanish?  Or if anyone else does, it'd be appreciated. _Very_ happy with what I've checked out so far; thanks for the recs.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Both are on Hulu. And I think WWE material is accessible even w/o an account, but don't hold me to it. The real problem is idk which Finlay vs Henry match that is meant to be. They had three on TV in 2008.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Dates are 8/19/08 + 12/30/08 for Henry/Hardy and 9/16/08 + 11/4/08 for Henry/Finlay. Could also check out Henry/Finlay against Hardy and Mike Knox from 9/9/08, which I only haven't seen because I want to have some new stuff to see when I do 2008 ECW. There's another Hardy match from January 09 too IIRC and I think a couple good Henry/Bournes.

I'd also absolutely throw this in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9Gldmt1puc

Henry has great squashes in 2011 with Morrison and Ryder too. And the Rey match from April, which is his first real match after the heel turn that year, I think. Not as good their 06 stuff, obviously, but still good.

Only realising now you were asking for links and not recs but I shall not delete this. I SHALL NOT.

edit - hot damn @Hayley Sexdome what's the third outside of 9/16 and 11/4???


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Henry vs Morrison match on RAW in 2011. Wonderful.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rey/Henry on the Draft episode is great


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Apologies @Hayley Seydoux. My excitement for SCREAMIN NORMAL SMILEY got the best of me. 

I'm going to get to the vast amount of Vader matches recommended to me some time today too, but a thread in the classic wrestling section gaged my interest and I feel like looking back on some of the matches listed in the "wrong guy went over".


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

For the record, here's what I say so far:



> Henry vs Big Show Vengeance 2011 ***3/4


Agree with the three-and-three-quarters rating. I deduct a little for the non-finish, but I loved every minute of this. Something very close to the platonic ideal of a Goliath vs. Goliath match.



> Henry vs Randy Orton Night of Champions 2011 ****


Simple but terrific story of a guy who's used to being the irresistible force running up against an even _less_ resistible force who also happens to be an immovable object. 3.75 for this one as well.



> Henry vs Daniel Bryan Cage Match Smackdown Dec. 2011 ****1/4


Three-and-three-quarters for this too. Too short for anything more, but as good as a Bryan-vs-big-man match is supposed to be, especially when the big man is of the quality Henry was here. Not exactly Danielson/Morishima, or even Danielson/Joe, but with more time could've been even closer to the latter.



> Henry vs Finlay ECW TV 2008 ****1/4 (Yeah1993 knows the date I cant remember)


Three-and-a-half from me. Henry's control was a little plodding for my tastes -- like he was starting to put it together, but was still a few years away from being his best self in the ring -- but the story here was great, with the tough old bastard who usually controls every fight he's in just being manhandled by the force of nature that is the pissed-off former champion.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

KENNY said:


> :lmao :lmao Souled Out 2000 looks like the worst PPV of all time. Complete and utter torture by the sounds of it.


It's pretty bad. I ordered it as a kid and it was just a depressing 2 days to be a wrestling fan. 

So the card that we got was not even close to what was advertised. Jarrett and Bret Hart were pulled off the card at the last minute. And there was supposed to be a match with no ropes and I really wanted to see that. The show was 15 years ago (holy fuck did I really just write that?) and I've still never seen a match with no ropes. 

The first match has Dean Malenko just roll out of the ring in 2 minutes and he lost the match because of the dumb stipulation. But Kidman won and he's the man so that was cool. He wrestled a match later with Saturn and won and it was awesome. Now I'm pumped because Kidman is great and he's going to beat Douglas in the cage. Then Douglas comes out, says the Wall is wrestling in his place (seriously the Wall?) and the Wall goes on to beat Kidman in like 5 minutes... What is the point of that? The Wall wasn't involved in the feud and was just some nobody. But he crushes Kidman and his star making performance is ruined. Yeah I know he would end up beating Hogan on a PPV (how is that possible) but I'm still pissed about what happened. 

DDP lost clean to a heel in a last man standing match (I think it was clean)

I had to watch a David Flair/Vampiro/Crowbar match...

Oh and then I watched Kevin Nash beat up poor old Terry Funk. 

Benoit winning the title was kind of cool. I wasn't a huge fan of him but him getting his first title win was nice and I knew it was his first and I was happy for him. But then he was never seen in WCW again...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DDP was more heel than Buff was. But then again, w/the build, who the hell knows.

Hogan only lost to Kidman on TV and w/like the worst help possible. Angle was meant to tear the 4th wall down, yet it still went the way they were complaining about. :lmao I actually do enjoy their match from Slamboree though.

Oh 2000. What a year.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> DDP was more heel than Buff was. But then again, w/the build, who the hell knows.
> 
> Hogan only lost to Kidman on TV and w/like the worst help possible. Angle was meant to tear the 4th wall down, yet it still went the way they were complaining about. :lmao I actually do enjoy their match from Slamboree though.
> 
> Oh 2000. What a year.


I thought Buff was making a play on his wife or something? 

2000 is just a hilarious year. I watched a bunch of Nitros and Thunders from the time period and it's just silly.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Should I put myself through it? Is the torture worth some laughs?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

This recent episode of NXT features the worst punches in wrestling history. Not a hyperbole. You guys should see Dana Brooke make a fool out of herself. I guarantee that nobody in this thread can find worse punches.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

link?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCTWnnlsbLs
Blue Pants? :lmao
Seems like WWE agree with funnyfaces because we don't get a clear shot of a punch here.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Drake Younger's face says it all when he had to raise Dana's hand in victory. :lol


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

STONE COLD STEVE AUSTIN Vs BIG SHOW HD - WWF/ WWE 1999
by WWF NETWORK
14:57 More

MANKIND Vs KANE - WWF/WWE Championship - 1999
by WWF NETWORK
10:37 More

Corporate Royal Rumble (DX & The Corporation) - WWF/WWE 1999
by WWF NETWORK
13:34 More

Ministry of Darkness Vs The Brood - WWF/WWE 1999
by WWF NETWORK
8:46 More

STONE COLD STEVE AUSTIN V THE CORPORATION 6 on 1 Gauntlet Match! - WWF/WWE 1999
by WWF NETWORK
10:17 More

Triple H & Test Vs Kane & X Pac - Tag Team Championship WWF WWE 1999
by WWF NETWORK
10:27 More

The Brood Vs The Acolytes HD - WWF WWE 1999
by WWF NETWORK
7:31 More

STONE COLD & THE ROCK Vs UNDERTAKER & TRIPLE H - WWF WWE 1999
by WWF NETWORK
13:01 More

Mankind Vs The Acolytes - Hardcore Match - WWF WWE 1999
by WWF NETWORK
8:46 More

Triple H Vs Ken Shamrock (Chyna Guest Referee) WWF WWE 1999
by WWF NETWORK
10:26 More

STONE COLD STEVE AUSTIN Vs TRIPLE H - WWF WWE 1999
by WWF NETWORK
12:21 More

UNDERTAKER VS STONE COLD STEVE AUSTIN - WWF Championship (1999)
by WWF NETWORK
12:58 More

UNDERTAKER Vs BIG SHOW HD - WWF Championship (1999)
by WWF NETWORK
10:42 More

Big Show Vs Hardcore Holly - Hardcore Match - WWF WWE 1999
by WWF NETWORK
6:35 More

Hardy Boyz Vs Acolytes Vs Godfather & Val Venis Vs Prince Albert & Droz - WWF WWE
by WWF NETWORK
7:41 More

Unholy Alliance Vs The Acolytes - Tag Team Championship WWF WWE
by WWF NETWORK
6:32 More

The Rock Vs Gangrel - WWF WWE
by WWF NETWORK
11:30 More

Hardcore Holly Vs Crash Holly - Hardcore Match WWF WWE
by WWF NETWORK
4:32 More

HD Undertaker & Big Show Vs Kane & X Pac Vs The Acolytes - Tag Team Championship - WWF WWE
by WWF NETWORK
8:20 More

THE ROCK & MANKIND Vs TRIPLE H & SHANE MCMAHON HD - WWE Tag Team Championship
by WWF NETWORK
9:48 More

The New Brood Vs Holly Cousins - WWF WWE
by WWF NETWORK
10:54 More

HD British Bulldog Returns & Wins The Hardcore Title - WWF WWE
by WWF NETWORK
6:08 More

Edge & Christian Vs The New Brood HD - WWF WWE
by WWF NETWORK
9:32 More

Dudley Boyz Vs The New Brood - WWF WWE
by WWF NETWORK
6:12 More

The Rock & Mankind Vs Big Show Viscera & Mideon - WWF WWE
by WWF NETWORK
10:51 More

Rock N Sock Connection Vs New Age Outlaws HD - Tag Team Championship - WWF WWE
by WWF NETWORK
11:10 More

THE ROCK Vs CHRIS JERICHO - WWF WWE
by WWF NETWORK
12:54 More

Edge & Christian Vs The New Brood HD - Tag Team Tornado Match - WWF WWE
by WWF NETWORK
10:07 More

Mankind Vs British Bulldog HD - WWF WWE
by WWF NETWORK
9:36 More

Big Show Vs Big Boss Man HD - WWF WWE
by WWF NETWORK
5:26 More

Dudley Boyz Vs The Headbangers - WWF WWE
by WWF NETWORK
8:21 More

Kane & X Pac Vs Dudley Boyz - WWF WWE
by WWF NETWORK
7:17 More

New Age Outlaws Vs The Acolytes (Ring Breaks!) WWF WWE
by WWF NETWORK
10:23 More

Hardy Boyz Vs Holly Cousins HD - Tag Team Championship - WWF WWE
by WWF NETWORK
7:18 More

'Stone Cold' Steve Austin Vs Val Venis HD - WWF WWE
by WWF NETWORK
13:11 More

The Godfather Vs Viscera - Winner Take Ho's Match - WWF WWE
by WWF NETWORK
10:25 More

Kane Vs Bubba Ray Dudley - WWF WWE
by WWF NETWORK
9:00 More

STONE COLD & THE ROCK VS NEW AGE OUTLAWS 

About to watch these right now on youtube. I'm probably the only one, or maybe few people here who likes 1999. 

I'll probably pass out somewhere down the line :lol

It's in that order too, just kept randomly selecting them.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Bruce L said:


> For the record, here's what I say so far:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As most guys will attest to in this thread, I habitually rate matches with Eddie, Foley, Vader, Benoit, Finlay, and Henry higher than just about anyone else. I can't help it, Im a totally sucker for their work, everyone has their guys I guess. And anyway, I only use ratings to show the degree to which I enjoyed a match, couldn't care less about work rate or any of the other things Meltzer uses to grade his matches. It's just easier than calling every match either Awesome, Good, Great, Amazing, Shit, Awful, Piss-Poor, Boring, etc. If a match like Bryan/Henry Cage is short but I'm pumped as fuck the entire time and loving every minute, I'll give it ****+ because length doesn't really matter to me, it's what they do in the time they are given.

Henry isn't for everyone. I see so many people on this forum (not in this thread, thankfully) trash his work and throw him in the same category as guys like Kane or Great Khali. Henry is a slow, plodding, methodical type worker when he's at his best, and I really enjoy that. Seeing a 400+ lb mammoth of a man, someone who is legitimately one of the strongest people alive, put a beat down on some poor sap while bad mouthing him and shouting "I OWN YOU BOY! I OWN YOU! GET YOUR HAND UP OUT OF MY FACE! I OWN YOU!" or "SIT DOWN FOOL. I AINT TELL YOU TO MOVE! YOU MOVE WHEN I TELL YOU! NOW GET UP AND TAKE THIS BEATING!" is just a real delight for me. Adds immense amounts of enjoyment to any match. Not to mention Henry mastered the art of monster heel selling, he sells perfectly when he faces smaller guys. He makes them work for it, but once they get on a roll he has no problem staggering around, shaking out the cobwebs, and finally after they hit him enough times, going down in a realistic manner. Vader was the best ever at this, but Henry is more than excellent at it. Once Henry made the decision to stop worrying about what people think and to really accentuate the dark side of his personality, I'd guess it was around 2005-2006, that's when he became great. He was worried early on about playing into the stereotype of a big, mean, black, bully early on, but this is pro wrestling not Hollywood. Sexual Chocolate is a mid card character at best, Hall of Pain Mark Henry is World Champ/Main Event material.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I only use ratings to show the degree to which I enjoyed a match, couldn't care less about work rate or any of the other things Meltzer uses to grade his matches. It's just easier than calling every match either Awesome, Good, Great, Amazing, Shit, Awful, Piss-Poor, Boring, etc. If a match like Bryan/Henry Cage is short but I'm pumped as fuck the entire time and loving every minute, I'll give it ****+ because length doesn't really matter to me, it's what they do in the time they are given.


Same. I think my sig lays out pretty well what my "ratings" really mean; I think the only real difference is that things like workrate or getting more time to develop a story will make more of a difference to me when determining whether I really _love_ a match or just like it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Did you check out the Henry/Punk matches? The RAW after Mania one is something truly magical. I've said it before, but that match should be used as a lesson plan for anyone planning to be a wrestler.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

KENNY said:


> STONE COLD STEVE AUSTIN Vs BIG SHOW HD - WWF/ WWE 1999
> by WWF NETWORK
> 14:57 More
> 
> ...


I don't know about match quality as much as others. But I don't care, every one of those guy's characters were in their prime in 1999. My favorite Austin, favorite Taker, favorite Rock, favorite Kane. It's like a video game seeing them fight during that year. No watered down BS, because of public shareholders and sponsors.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

https://youtu.be/nri0RAIz12c

Is this HBK/1-2-3 Kid match any good? I'm going to check it out anyway when I come back from work, but I'd like to hear some opinions on it


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Did you check out the Henry/Punk matches? The RAW after Mania one is something truly magical. I've said it before, but that match should be used as a lesson plan for anyone planning to be a wrestler.


Not yet, but I have them. Probably get to them tonight.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

That HBK/Waltman match is pretty solid, they have an ever better match in 1996 though, much better iirc

Watched the 4/2/12 Henry match last night for the first time since it aired, wonderful


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watched Regal Vs HASHIMOTO from 1996 earlier. First time I've seen it. Don't think this was the one from the Regal comp I have though, but instead another one that someone (probably Yeah) linked me to after Regal himself talked about it on Twitter. Really good match, but in some ways a little disappointing. Only because I was kinda expecting something on the level of the Regal/Benoit/Finlay stuff lol. Regal was awesome for the last few minutes, essentially playing a plucky babyface who just wouldn't quit. He kept getting kicked by Hash, but refusing to go down and constantly telling Hash to keep it up. The fans got behind him nicely, and Hash had to resort to a kick to the head and 2 DDT's to finish him off. Really need to see their other match from the Regal comp now though.

Also was kinda weird seeing Regal wrestle a match like this and NOT get his nose busted open .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

KingLobos said:


> I don't know about match quality as much as others. But I don't care, every one of those guy's characters were in their prime in 1999. My favorite Austin, favorite Taker, favorite Rock, favorite Kane. It's like a video game seeing them fight during that year. No watered down BS, because of public shareholders and sponsors.


Watching that stuff live when it happened as a 13-14 year old, I thought it was the greatest thing ever. I LOVED Kane back then, I thought he was just about as cool as it got. As I got older my tastes changed, I can understand why people love that 1999 stuff, but nowadays, the only thing I really enjoy from 1999 is the Mankind/Rock feud. Rocks character was undoubtedly at it's best that year, though he would be much better in the ring in the following years, and Mankind was the only one it seemed who consistently had matches worth watching that year. Personally, I think WWE could easily find a happy medium between the non-stop insanity of Russo era booking with next to no emphasis on match quality, and the current era where match quality is really all you have to look forward to. Heyman managed to do it pretty well on Smackdown for a few years, but it just seems like WWE always goes from one extreme to the other without finding that happy medium.



Bruce L said:


> Not yet, but I have them. Probably get to them tonight.


That 4/2/12 Punk/Henry match is my pick for the best of Henry's career. Totally amazing, that is one damn awesome match with 2 of the best in the business at that time giving 100% effort into everything they did.



#ROOT said:


> Watched Regal Vs HASHIMOTO from 1996 earlier. First time I've seen it. Don't think this was the one from the Regal comp I have though, but instead another one that someone (probably Yeah) linked me to after Regal himself talked about it on Twitter. Really good match, but in some ways a little disappointing. Only because I was kinda expecting something on the level of the Regal/Benoit/Finlay stuff lol. Regal was awesome for the last few minutes, essentially playing a plucky babyface who just wouldn't quit. He kept getting kicked by Hash, but refusing to go down and constantly telling Hash to keep it up. The fans got behind him nicely, and Hash had to resort to a kick to the head and 2 DDT's to finish him off. Really need to see their other match from the Regal comp now though.
> 
> Also was kinda weird seeing Regal wrestle a match like this and NOT get his nose busted open .


I read somewhere, I think it might have been Regal's book but im not certain, that Regal and Benoit used to always have a head butt competition when they wrestled, first one to get busted open loses. Seems like Benoit always won that one . Regal got hardway'd during his career more than just about any wrestler I've ever seen, except maybe Brock who seems to end up bleeding 50% of the time from either his mouth, nose, or forehead :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

It was me who linked/upped it Cal. 

I liked it, but yeah definitely wasn't as good as their '95 match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Henry going slow is the only possible way he could wrestle a match. Can you imagine the strongest man in the world FASTLY beating a guy down? Their comeback would look ridiculous and not at all believable even in wrestling. 


I was actually surprised at how much I liked the Regal/Hash from 96. Not because it's those two, duh, but because I'd never heard of the match before and thought it was maybe a disappointment to some people. After I was done with it I was like "why does nobody talk about this???" Might just be a pretty-recent find.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Yeah1993 said:


> Henry going slow is the only possible way he could wrestle a match. Can you imagine the strongest man in the world FASTLY beating a guy down? Their comeback would look ridiculous and not at all believable even in wrestling.


All I can offer in my defense here is that, to me, there's "I'm 400 pounds of pissed-off badass and I'm going to take my time destroying you because THAT'S WHAT I DO" slow, and then there's "I'm a not-terribly-good professional wrestler with no firm grasp on what I'm doing" slow. '08 Henry was definitely not the latter anymore (I quite liked the Finlay match I reviewed), but he didn't yet embody the former as gloriously as he would later on.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I wasn't even commenting on what you wrote; seemed like praise to me.  Was just adding to what Chris was saying. Do you know which Finlay match you watched, though? I loved both, but preferred 11/4 to 9/16.

Also it's not really a Henry rec for Henry, but please watch Henry/Tajiri. :mark: It takes like three minutes and Tajiri is the best human being alive in it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXLsApZMKN8


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Sadly, of all the ECW TV matches I was recommended, 9/16 was the only one I could find. No 11/4 or either of the Hardy ones on DM. 

In the meantime, I watched the 4/2/12 Punk match. Loved it. Never would've imagined Vader comparisons being apt for friggin' Sexual Chocolate, but he was more than earning them at this point. Great performance that even managed to overshadow Punk IMO, and Punk was pretty great here. Four stars, says I.


----------



## speedkills (Jul 21, 2010)

Decided to watch some random WCW on the network and ended up with 

"Spring Stampede 1997"
Opener was Mysterio vs Ultimo Dragon. - Excellent match as you would expect with these two. Dragon controlled the majority of the match and was crisp with everything he did. Exceeded my already high expectations and Was 15 minutes of FUN. Definitely worth a watch.

Steven Regal vs Prince Iakuea - solid match mostly because of Regal, but it just didn't do much for me beyond that. Good mid card filler.

Dean Malenk vs Benoit - Very good match with a finish that sucked the life out of it. 

Skipped over the Public Enemy and a four way between Luger, Giant and Harlem Heat. Flair came out and cut your typical awesome Flair promo. He says him and Kevin Greene are gonna take on the nwo. Oh, and he's gonna kick Bischoffs ass with his hands tied behind his back. 

Watching the big one now. DDP vs Macho Man!!! - this match has that rare BIG match feel. I love it already and Buffer hasn't even finished the intro.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Spring Stampede 1997 is a WCW rarity from the time period. The undercard is good as always AND the main event is actually good.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Better Flair/Eddie G match.....

Hog Wild 96 or King of the Ring 2002?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

They had a match on Nitro in 1996 that I thought was better than those two, but I would say Hog Wild 96 was better between the two.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Thoughts on Sheamus & Ziggler competing in a 'Kiss Me Arse' match at Extreme Rules? :lmao


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

^When's the last time they had one? Of course they'd have Ziggler in one of those, though they rarely have them. That's what they think of him! :lol

Does anyone have Sting's DVD? If so, does he comment on the matches in between? And is it any good?


----------



## speedkills (Jul 21, 2010)

Fired up another WCW PPV that I don't remember anything about and to my surprise this gem was the first match. Holy shit, this should be off the charts!

Slamboree 97'. 
Steven Regal vs. Ultimo Dragon 

I loved every second of this match! They kept it on the mat and just stretched and beat the crap out of each other for the first 10-12 minutes. I was really impressed with Dragon's mat work, he did a hell of a job keeping up with Regal and landed some absolutely brutal kicks that had the crowd fired up. Of course Mr. Regal wasn't having it and proceeded to stretch him some more. 

I had high expectations going in because they're two of the best ever and they exceeded them. There were a couple small miscommunications but nothing big. 

Overall I'd say **** 
I don't really do the whole star rating thing much but I enjoyed this match a lot.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Better Flair/Eddie G match.....
> 
> Hog Wild 96 or King of the Ring 2002?


Hog Wild probably, but their best match is that Nitro match from May 1996, it blows those two PPV bouts completely out of the water. Think the date is like 5/29/96 but I'm not positive. Flair made Eddie look like pure gold in that match. Not that it's hard to make Eddie look good, but at that stage of his career it would have been understandable for Flair to give Eddie a lot less and not sell quite as much. But Flair is a pro all the way, that's why he's Ric fucking Flair, he was bumping and selling and flying all over the ring for Eddie. That's gotta be Eddie's best baby face match in WCW unless I'm forgetting something. 

Just finished Murdoch/Windham from UWF 1987. Good god what a match, very unique in that both guys work the other guys arm, and they do it somewhat simultaneously there isn't really prolonged control segments. The work they do is just fabulous though, Windham was top 10 in the world at this point and he was giving Murdoch everything he could handle. Tricky Dick wasn't gonna let him off lightly though, he was wrenching and pulling and twisting and just being a mean old pick in general. Suffice to say, I loved this A LOT. I know some of you were shitting on the match they had in the WWE, I haven't seen that one yet, but if you have the time Google this match and watch it. It's on Facebook of all places, some brilliant soul made a UWF dedication page where he just posts old UWF matches. Ross was excellent on commentary and Terry Taylor was actually very good as well guest commentating.

On to some more MURDOCH :mark: :mark:

P.S. Murdoch is just a bad ass fucking name. If I ever have a son his middle name is gonna be Murdoch, because ain't no way he will ever be a pussy with a middle name like that.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Hog Wild probably, but their best match is that Nitro match from May 1996, it blows those two PPV bouts completely out of the water. Think the date is like 5/29/96 but I'm not positive. Flair made Eddie look like pure gold in that match. Not that it's hard to make Eddie look good, but at that stage of his career it would have been understandable for Flair to give Eddie a lot less and not sell quite as much. But Flair is a pro all the way, that's why he's Ric fucking Flair, he was bumping and selling and flying all over the ring for Eddie. That's gotta be Eddie's best baby face match in WCW unless I'm forgetting something.
> 
> Just finished Murdoch/Windham from UWF 1987. Good god what a match, very unique in that both guys work the other guys arm, and they do it somewhat simultaneously there isn't really prolonged control segments. The work they do is just fabulous though, Windham was top 10 in the world at this point and he was giving Murdoch everything he could handle. Tricky Dick wasn't gonna let him off lightly though, he was wrenching and pulling and twisting and just being a mean old pick in general. Suffice to say, I loved this A LOT. I know some of you were shitting on the match they had in the WWE, I haven't seen that one yet, but if you have the time Google this match and watch it. It's on Facebook of all places, some brilliant soul made a UWF dedication page where he just posts old UWF matches. Ross was excellent on commentary and Terry Taylor was actually very good as well guest commentating.
> 
> ...


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Just hope your kid doesn't come out looking like a Murdoch; most especially Trevor.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The great Flair/Eddie is on 5/20/06.

Been a minute since I've seen Windham/Murdoch but the spot where Murdoch is laying on the floor and whips the belt into Windham's face like an open newspaper is burned into my brain. Unless it didn't actually happen in that match. In which case, the burn was faulty or something.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Thoughts on Sheamus & Ziggler competing in a 'Kiss Me Arse' match at Extreme Rules? :lmao



SO extreme. Why stop there. Why not have a poopy on a pole match? :vince5

Despite the stupid idea if they get 15 mins they can have a great match. Poor Dolph. He deserves better.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Flair and Eddie wrestled in 1906?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No silly. He clearly meant 2006 . Flair is so old he is allowed to travel between the living and dead worlds. He's like the Baba of our world. [/Dragonball Reference]


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

back on my 1999 spree

currently watching

Triple H & Test Vs Kane & X Pac - Tag Team Championship WWF WWE 1999

now watching

STONE COLD & THE ROCK Vs UNDERTAKER & TRIPLE H - WWF WWE 1999 SMACKDOWN

:mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Has anyone else seen Vader/Mutoh 8/10/91 NJPW G1 Climax? I just watched it for the first time and damn that was one amazing match. Haven't seen too much of Mutoh/Muta, but he was absolutely excellent here as the whipping boy for Vader. Shame that the only video I could find was filmed from the stands (quality actually isn't too bad, you can clearly see everything and there is no shaking or anything) and that there doesn't seem to be a televised version. It's hard to get the full appreciation for a match when you can't see facial expressions and subtle selling. I'd still 100% recommend watching it to any fan of Vader or Mutoh, as its a GREAT match and even with the video not being the best you can still see how physical and hard hitting it was.

Here is the link:

Big Van Vader vs Keiji Mutoh NJPW G1 Climax 8/10/91 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HRBCoXAjOtU


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

watching WCW THUNDER 4/12/2000


Vince Russo/Eric Bischoff/New Blood Promo
Bam Bam Bigelow attacks Diamond Dallas Page
Hard Knox Chris Candido/Juventud Guerrera/The Artist Formerly Known as Prince Iaukea vs Shannon Moore/Crowbar/Lash Leroux
Diamond Dallas Page interview with Mean Gene
Bischoff and Russo talk to Stevie Ray & Big T.
Curt Hennig/Shawn Stasiak brawl
Sid Vicious vs Harlem Heat 2000-No DQ Handicap Match
Jimmy Hart backstage
Eric Bischoff talks to Booker
Shane Douglas v The Total Package
Billy Kidman attacks Jimmy Hart
Diamond Dallas Page/Kimberly backstage
Bokker VS the Wall vs Vampiro, vs Scott Steiner v Kidman vs The cat-Colorado Collision match
Madusa vs Kimberly
Brian Knobbs/Fit Finlay vs Hugh Morrus/Meng vs Terry Funk/Norman Smiley-Hardcore Match
Jeff Jarrett intervire with Mean Gene
Buff Bagwell vs Ric Flair
Sting vs Villano III, IV & V
Bam Bam Bigelow vs Diamond Dallas Page


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Has anyone else seen Vader/Mutoh 8/10/91 NJPW G1 Climax? I just watched it for the first time and damn that was one amazing match. Haven't seen too much of Mutoh/Muta, but he was absolutely excellent here as the whipping boy for Vader. Shame that the only video I could find was filmed from the stands (quality actually isn't too bad, you can clearly see everything and there is no shaking or anything) and that there doesn't seem to be a televised version. It's hard to get the full appreciation for a match when you can't see facial expressions and subtle selling. I'd still 100% recommend watching it to any fan of Vader or Mutoh, as its a GREAT match and even with the video not being the best you can still see how physical and hard hitting it was.
> 
> Here is the link:
> 
> Big Van Vader vs Keiji Mutoh NJPW G1 Climax 8/10/91 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HRBCoXAjOtU


I reviewed it last year. Love that match for Muta's babyface performance among other things. I vividly remember Vader doing the most powerful pimp slap ever in that match too. Hmm, it's at the 7:00 mark of that video. But man, Vader in control is always primo, but Muta's fiery comeback was something special even for him. Had the crowd in the palm of his hands and even if you couldn't see the facial expressions or subtle selling, you could feel the energy behind Muta's offense. Great match.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Has anyone else seen Vader/Mutoh 8/10/91 NJPW G1 Climax? I just watched it for the first time and damn that was one amazing match. Haven't seen too much of Mutoh/Muta, but he was absolutely excellent here as the whipping boy for Vader. Shame that the only video I could find was filmed from the stands (quality actually isn't too bad, you can clearly see everything and there is no shaking or anything) and that there doesn't seem to be a televised version. It's hard to get the full appreciation for a match when you can't see facial expressions and subtle selling. I'd still 100% recommend watching it to any fan of Vader or Mutoh, as its a GREAT match and even with the video not being the best you can still see how physical and hard hitting it was.
> 
> Here is the link:
> 
> Big Van Vader vs Keiji Mutoh NJPW G1 Climax 8/10/91 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HRBCoXAjOtU


Glad you checked this out. Not just a great Vader match, but it may very well be my favorite Mutoh/Muta match as well. I'd have to watch it and the final of that G1 in quick succession to make sure, because Mutoh/Chono is a super-classic for a reason, but I have no trouble believing he had a better match with Vader than with Chono.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I reviewed it last year. Love that match for Muta's babyface performance among other things. I vividly remember Vader doing the most powerful pimp slap ever in that match too. Hmm, it's at the 7:00 mark of that video. But man, Vader in control is always primo, but Muta's fiery comeback was something special even for him. Had the crowd in the palm of his hands and even if you couldn't see the facial expressions or subtle selling, you could feel the energy behind Muta's offense. Great match.



When Austin asked Vader about who his favorite guys to wrestle were, after mentioning Sting and Misawa, Vader said "and has there every been anyone more talented and gifted in the ring than Muta? He was unbelievable, he could do it all". Thats a pretty big and bold statement, coming from someone like Vader, who wrestled Flair, Shawn Michaels, Undertaker, Mick Foley, Kenta Kobashi, Misawa, Kawada, Stan Hansen, and Ricky Steamboat in their respective primes, for him to say Muta had more God given talent than all of them is quite the compliment. I don't necessarily agree with him but hey, I never wrestled any of those guys Vader did.

I watched the "Giants" doc WWE put on the Network today and it was actually really, really good. They left out some big names, but they did include guys like One Man Gang, Mark Henry, Vader, Yoko, Andre, Show, etc. One huge omission I thought was Bam Bam, not sure why he wasn't in there, nor was Big Bossman. Yet Great Khali and Giant Gonzalez were. That left me a bit miffed. Taker wasn't in there either, which would be fine because he wasn't technically a "giant", he was more a big man, but then they did have Kevin Nash in there. So Nash qualifies but Taker doesn't? They were virtually the same size give or take an inch in height. And even Sid Vicious was on there, and he wasn't as big as Taker.

Outside of that, it was pretty cool each guy got about 8-10 minutes to do a short career overview, if the guy was still alive they interviewed them, if he wasn't (and sadly a lot of the Giants werent) they would have that persons best friend in the industry tell his story. Kinda cool seeing One Man Gang be interviewed, same with Sid. And I always pop for seeing Vader on WWE TV. He said that short 3 minute squash of Heath Slater was one of the highlights of his entire career. Made me decide to go back and watch it again. Man if watching that match doesn't put a huge shit eating grin on your face you probably should stop watching wrestling. The fans were so great, a bunch of people were bowing to Vader and the pop he got was really strong. Not to mention you could tell old Leon was having the time of his life out there.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:mark: Zayn Vs Rhyno on NXT this week :mark:. Most interesting match up for me since... uhhhh... a while .


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

just found these matches (on dailymotion)

i thought i'd start watching some VADER stuff. 

i haven't watched anything or hardly anything, opinions on these before i start?


WCW Halloween Havoc 1993 - Cactus Jack Vs. Vader
WCW Clash Of The Champions XXVI - Ric Flair & Sting Vs. Rick Rude & Vader
Sting vs Vader - WCW Superbrawl III 21.02.1993 (Strap match)
Vader & Steve Austin Vs Ric Flair & Arn Anderson - WCW Saturday Night 13.11.1993


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The strap match is one of the best matches in WCW history. Probably five stars. Next best match would be Cactus Jack vs. Vader. Great brawl where they go all over the arena, but it does have a comical ending. The Clash match is also very good, although it too has some weird WCW-ish booking. I think the last match on that list is the infamous Saturday Night tag match.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The strap match is one of the best matches in WCW history. Probably five stars. Next best match would be Cactus Jack vs. Vader. Great brawl where they go all over the arena, but it does have a comical ending. The Clash match is also very good, although it too has some weird WCW-ish booking. I think the last match on that list is the infamous Saturday Night tag match.


It has me very interested (the tag match). My favourite wrestler is Stone Cold Steve Austin, but I watched him and got into wrestling when he was in WWF. I guess it is foolish I haven't checked out more of his WCW stuff.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

*Re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues &amp; Bobby Eaton*

How did that Sting vs Villanos Hermanos match go? 

Looks of it I'd imagine a Sting victory having survived them but from a lucha perspective that's so strange/hilarious. Imagining this massive bloodbath with Sting looking like Invador 3 after Manny Fernandez fucked him up.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Vader/Sting strap match is both man's best singles match and maybe a top 5 WCW match of all time. 

The 11/13/93 tag is really long (you'll see by the 'finish' how long it actually is and how WCW were kinda stupid even back then), but I always thought it was great. Started getting flack a few years ago, though. Same thing with the Foley TDM.

94 tag I definitely watched but have no memory of.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Vader/Sting strap match is both man's best singles match and maybe a top 5 WCW match of all time.
> 
> The 11/13/93 tag is really long (you'll see by the 'finish' how long it actually is and how WCW were kinda stupid even back then), but I always thought it was great. Started getting flack a few years ago, though. Same thing with the Foley TDM.
> 
> 94 tag I definitely watched but have no memory of.


People have beef with Vader/Cactus HH 93' and Vader/Austin vs Arn/Flair? Really? I find that hard to imagine, two big brutes beating the absolute shit out of each other for 20 minutes, and 4 of the 25 or so best wrestlers in US history in the same tag match, seems like something most would enjoy. Oh well, everyone has their preferences.

Vader did say that the reason the Vader/Cactus feud got buried/killed was because of that HH 93' match being so physical and violent. He said he heard that the bookers and some of the other talent were worried about Vader and Jack "killing the show", because they were so physical and intense no one else could compete with them. That could be total BS, you know wrestling rumors, but it's the only explanation I've ever heard for why the hottest feud in wrestling, one were a guy just lost his ear because of his opponent, was killed after 1 10 minute match on WCW Worldwide in front of a crowd of Disney World patrons.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm not a fan of most Vader/Foley matches tbh. Their best matches together though were usually on TV imo. Don't like that HH match at all.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That rumor of why the Cactus/Vader feud ended sounds so stupid. If your main event feud is so good that it outdoes the rest of your show, then that just means that your main event is that freaking good. I think it probably was killed because Vader/Flair needed to be set up, but I haven't researched the underlying details of that feud. A shame though that they didn't follow up with the feud as Vader and Foley looked like they had a blast wrestling each other.

I liked Vader/Austin vs. Arn/Flair, but there were a few things that I had issues with. Arn Anderson as FIP was pretty bad, and it didn't make any sense for him to be in that position instead of Flair. No sense at all. The hot tag also didn't feel as "hot" as it should have been. By the end of the match, it almost felt as if all four guys ran out of ideas. The crowd also dies after 20 minutes, which is another sign that the match went on for too long. Austin's workover was not bad, but something about Austin in WCW to me just felt kinda off. It's almost as if he wasn't wrestling the style that fit him best, and instead he was trying to conform to the style of those around him even though Austin has the ability to have a great match without having to conform to another wrestler's style. This match was no exception of this issue I have with WCW Austin. Finally, the ending was stupid (both the televised and actual ending). But that's expected of WCW. Still a very good match, but I don't think it touches a heck of a lot of other WCW tag matches I've seen.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> That rumor of why the Cactus/Vader feud ended sounds so stupid. If your main event feud is so good that it outdoes the rest of your show, then that just means that your main event is that freaking good. I think it probably was killed because Vader/Flair needed to be set up, but I haven't researched the underlying details of that feud. A shame though that they didn't follow up with the feud as Vader and Foley looked like they had a blast wrestling each other.
> 
> I liked Vader/Austin vs. Arn/Flair, but there were a few things that I had issues with. Arn Anderson as FIP was pretty bad, and it didn't make any sense for him to be in that position instead of Flair. No sense at all. The hot tag also didn't feel as "hot" as it should have been. By the end of the match, it almost felt as if all four guys ran out of ideas. The crowd also dies after 20 minutes, which is another sign that the match went on for too long. Austin's workover was not bad, but something about Austin in WCW to me just felt kinda off. It's almost as if he wasn't wrestling the style that fit him best, and instead he was trying to conform to the style of those around him even though Austin has the ability to have a great match without having to conform to another wrestler's style. This match was no exception of this issue I have with WCW Austin. Finally, the ending was stupid (both the televised and actual ending). But that's expected of WCW. Still a very good match, but I don't think it touches a heck of a lot of other WCW tag matches I've seen.



I really don't know either. I do know it seems weird that if Vader/Flair was the plan for Starrcade all along, why did they wrestle at COTC the month before? I also remember reading somewhere that Vader was supposed to win the title back from Flair at the next PPV, but once Hogan got signed they wanted to go right into Hogan/Flair so Vader was dropped out of the picture. So Vader had 2 of his feuds cut short in less than 3 months for things out of his control, I can see why he would be mad.

In the end it just sucks that WCW botched that Vader/Jack feud so badly. First they take one of the most serious, intense kick offs to a feud I've ever seen (that SNME bout where Vader destroys Foley's face before power bombing him on concrete) and make a total joke out of it with those "Lost in Cleveland" vignettes. Then they get a great chance at redemption when Foley loses an ear yet they do nothing. If anyone can take losing an ear and make it serious business with a microphone, it's Mick. Not to mention they severely hamper the HH 93' Texas Death Match with that ridiculous 30 second rest period crap and the botched/BS finish involving a Tazer. I guess not everyone cares or was as big a fan of the matches as I was, I thought their matches were all amazing and really different from anything being done in WCW at the time.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The real "Fuck You WCW" moment to me has always been them not running a Vader/Dustin program through 95 after the 94 Clash match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh hey it's Sunday, which means new BLOG POST~! Vengeance 06 is this weeks ramble, and a video games diary on www.bigcalsworld.co.uk .

Started another 2008 Ramble last night. About time I got to work on finishing this project lol. 2 years left to sit through and I'm done :mark:.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

Wasn't it Vader the one who blew one of Foley's ears at a show in Germany?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

#ROOT said:


> Oh hey it's Sunday, which means new BLOG POST~! Vengeance 06 is this weeks ramble, and a video games diary on www.bigcalsworld.co.uk .
> 
> Started another 2008 Ramble last night. About time I got to work on finishing this project lol. 2 years left to sit through and I'm done :mark:.


Going by your RAMBLES~! it doesn't sound too good to watch.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah it's a pretty shitty event overall lol .

The 08 one I'm watching isn't through :mark:.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm guessing that Cal is watching Cyber Sunday. That Taker/Show match :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You would be wrong .

In fact, very wrong cos I took a break from the 08 show to watch the 3 big matches from SS 13 instead . Christian/Del Rio gets better with every watch. Lesnar/Punk is still incredible. Got Bryan/Cena left, interested to see how I feel about the match now as I haven't seen it since it first aired (whereas I've watched the other 2 matches a bunch lol), and I wasn't the biggest fan of it to begin with.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

I thought the Vader/Foley feud was cancelled because WCW said their matches were too violent for TV? I've seen very little WCW and nothing from that feud so that could be BS but I'm sue I read that.

What are the DX/Legacy matches from Summerslam and HIAC like? Just watched the Bragging Rights match for the first time and thought it was incredible. Legacy were made to look fantastic. ****1/2 for it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Still haven't seen their Hell in a Cell match but the Summerslam one is excellent tag work with a good old veterans vs. new blood vibe to it. *** 3/4 for it. Love that Bragging Rights match too. So much fun.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone got dates for the recommended Hansen/Hennig and Hansen/Slaughter matches from AWA?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Fighter Daron said:


> Wasn't it Vader the one who blew one of Foley's ears at a show in Germany?


At a house show in Germany, yeah. Foley did the thing where he gets his head tied between the top an middle rope and when he slid out, well, yeah. The match actually exists on tape, I'm pretty sure.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> At a house show in Germany, yeah. Foley did the thing where he gets his head tied between the top an middle rope and when he slid out, well, yeah. The match actually exists on tape, I'm pretty sure.


It does, they show the footage on Foley's doc. The ropes were too tight, so when Foley did that flip over/hangman rope bump he always did, he got legitimately stuck and couldn't breathe. He thought he was going to choke to death and the ref couldn't get him free, but at the last minute he managed to just squeeze his head through the ropes and get free, but the ropes ripped his ear about 95% of the way off. The ear was just hanging by the smallest piece of skin, Foley threw a punch at Vader, Vader blocked it, and then the footage actually shows what appears to be Vader ripping it the rest of the way off. Now I dont know if he actually did, the ear could have just flown off from Foley shaking his head, but it still clear as day looks like Vader ripped it off and that's why it could have been such an awesome angle. If Foley had just done it to himself it wouldn't have been nearly as good for a storyline, but WCW actually had footage of one wrestler ripping another wrestlers ear off and they didn't capatilize on it. That kind of stupidity is one of the many reasons they aren't in business anymore.

@#ROOT : Cal, did a second viewing of Bryan/Cena change your mind and make you realize it's truly an incredible match?


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Brock said:


> Anyone got dates for the recommended Hansen/Hennig and Hansen/Slaughter matches from AWA?


Just watched Slaughter/Hansen somewhat recently myself. February 2nd, 1986 is their over 15 minute no stip title match. March 9 1986 is their short boot camp match. I honestly expected more, but that February 2nd match is still pretty good.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

SIAP.....

Bought the new Warrior Blu Ray and just finished the doc. Same doc on the network with a little extra added in. Good stuff. Won't lie I get a little misty eyed. Looks like a few hidden gem matches too. 

Anyone know if you buy something Warrior on the WWE website if proceeds go to his family? If so I might buy a couple things.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Read an article on WWE.com about who should respond to Cena's open challenges every week and it got me thinking on something. Once Cena beats Rusev again at Extreme Rules (RUSSIAN CHAIN!~), they should just keep him out of any feuds or storylines for a while and just have him do the open challenges every week AND at ppvs. That way you already have Cena booked every month, you have the mystery of who will accept on the bigger shows, and you can select bigger names for the ppvs. It would totally work for guys coming in as a one-off to try to beat Cena too. Having Jericho or RVD come back just for a night to face Cena at a ppv would be pretty cool.

Even if you don't wanna bring in the other guys, there's plenty of dudes on the roster to make it work. Harper, Swagger, or Neville on TV. Sheamus, Big Show, Ryback, or Ziggler on PPV. If you wanna get crazy, bring in Sami Zayn this way. Balor? Itami? You can run the angle where Cena has beaten everyone on the roster so he challenges Bryan to a title unification match at Summerslam (if they wanna go that route and if Bryan even has the belt that long). Sounds good to me!


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Excellent way to introduce Zayn. 

Jericho v Cena would be fun. I'd love to see a Jericho/Rollins match too. I want to see Jericho come back for one more run as a heel.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> @#ROOT : Cal, did a second viewing of Bryan/Cena change your mind and make you realize it's truly an incredible match?


I certainly did change my mind. Gone from ***3/4 to ***. Just don't think much to the match at all. I'm finding it hard to explain what's going on inside my head in regards to the match. Best I can come up with is that Cena and Bryan just didn't seem to "click" in the type of match they tried to have. Felt like a poor man's Cena/Punk MITB 2011 match tbh.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Excellent way to introduce Zayn.
> 
> Jericho v Cena would be fun. I'd love to see a Jericho/Rollins match too. I want to see Jericho come back for one more run as a heel.


I wish Jericho comes late this year to make a run into WM 32.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd honestly be happy if Jericho never returned ever again. Been sick of the guy since like... 2009. Well, probably since his return in 07 actually. Didn't really care for his heel persona in 08 and didn't think too highly of the whole HBK feud compared to most. At least in 09 he had the run with Mysterio that was good.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> I'd honestly be happy if Jericho never returned ever again. Been sick of the guy since like... 2009. Well, probably since his return in 07 actually. Didn't really care for his heel persona in 08 and didn't think too highly of the whole HBK feud compared to most. At least in 09 he had the run with Mysterio that was good.


I enjoyed the build up to and the match at WM 28 he had with Punk. Thought that was pretty good. I'm not a big Jericho guy either but his matches with Mysterio in 09' were superb, among the best he's ever had, and I really like 3 of the 4 HBK matches from 08' (JD, GAB, and Unforgiven). I just don't like his heel character, it seems like his idea of being a heel in the ring is just yelling "Come on (insert wrestlers name)!" And slapping them in the face, over, and over, and over again. I enjoyed the whiny cry baby character from WCW A LOT more. 

In the end, as long as they don't try to treat Jericho returning like its a big deal or something, I really don't mind all that much. He doesn't come and take anyone's spot, he's not the focal point of the show, he just comes in and works with whichever young guy he's taken a liking to and then leaves. It's completely predictable but oh well, I'm sure it's valuable experience for whoever he works with because he's been around the block so long.

P.S.- you're amazing. You rewatch Bryan/Cena and end up liking it less :lmao. Didn't think that was possible, you're one of a kind sir. Come on, seeing Bryan do that superplex where he hooks his legs on the rope so he doesn't fall, then seeing him fire up and start shaking his arms while hanging upside down didn't give you goosebumps?! Man, Bryan is the only baby face on the main roster right now that has real fire that people buy into, I'm always gonna be a sucker for that old school baby face fire up/come back.

P.P.S Regal is on the Jericho podcast from Friday :mark: :mark:


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

#ROOT said:


> I'd honestly be happy if Jericho never returned ever again. Been sick of the guy since like... 2009. Well, probably since his return in 07 actually. Didn't really care for his heel persona in 08 and didn't think too highly of the whole HBK feud compared to most. At least in 09 he had the run with Mysterio that was good.


Uhm...I actually think Jericho from 2008 to 2010 is peak Jericho :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't even know what I'd consider Jericho's peak. He always had some good matches over the years, but between the good stuff was a bunch of crappy shit, annoying shit, or just plain "average" stuff that doesn't do anything for me.

Jericho reminds me a lot of HHH in a way. Thinks he's better than he actually is, is usually thought of by the company as being better than he is. And he gets real stale real quickly in any role he's in. I remember in 01 when he turned heel, I was pretty excited about it, hoping he'd do well. About 2 weeks after the turn I was sick of him :lmao. Then he turned face again in 04 and I was like "yey Jericho is face again finally, he was sooo boring as a heel" and a few weeks later I was sick of him again :lmao. Same thing happens to me with HHH. I remember being sick of him as a heel in 01, then when he returned in 02 as I face I was happy... but that didn't last long. He turned heel again and I thought "yey" but I was sick of him pretty damn quickly :lmao. Rinse and repeat for all his turns.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> I'd honestly be happy if Jericho never returned ever again. Been sick of the guy since like... 2009. Well, probably since his return in 07 actually. Didn't really care for his heel persona in 08 and didn't think too highly of the whole HBK feud compared to most. At least in 09 he had the run with Mysterio that was good.


Blimey, something we agree on here. 

I'm not a big fan of any of the Jericho/HBK 2008 matches either, the ladder match is the best of the bunch imo, but even then im not it's biggest fan. I was just underwhelmed when I watched the feud a few months back.

Their WM19 match blows away anything they did in 2008 by a big margin imo. I enjoyed the Punk feud and matches, really enjoyed their WM match esp, but everything else Jericho has done apart from that since 2009 has been pretty meh tbh.

Still, I think I'd like a proper heel Jericho vs Bryan match before he calls it a day.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

No secret I'm not huge on Jericho. Like I can't name a single Jericho match up that would excite me at this point. Even if he came back to face Regal I wouldn't be in a rush to see it. Or post a mark smiley over the news or anything. And it's kind of like that with his whole career for me. I don't really care to see him. Contrary to what some people might think I actually reckon I think his career was mostly good, but he might be one of the most overrated wrestlers who I'd still call good. The HHH comparison is interesting because I've thought the same thing myself but consider him easily better than Helmsley. At least I can hit up a random Jericho match from TV and have confidence it'll be solid (as long as it's between like 96 and 05, maybe). I tried to do that with HHH and he struggled to make four minute matches interesting outside of his ABSOLUTE peak of 00-01.

I re-watched the Bash Jericho/Rey in 2013 and just didn't get what's so amazing about it. Rey was Rey and Jericho was fine and the match was nothing to sneeze at but if it happened in 2010 I doubt I'd list it above Rey's match with Mike Knox from SuperStars which isn't in my top ten without the list even being finished. 




from 2013 said:


> Not *too* high on Rey/Jericho at THE BASH~. I've made IDK how many posts saying how Jericho isn't a great wrestler, and this pretty much cemented it. This is a period where he was a touted 'Best in the World', in the best match he had that year, and he wasn't THAT good. I mean shit, he was good, he was pretty damn good and I can't actually complain about anything he did. It's just that he has such praise surrounding him and I didn't think his heel work-over period was anywhere near as interesting as Henry's in the Finlay/Hardy matches, Show's in the Cena match, Swagger's in the Christian match, etc. I really loved when he caught Rey's baseball slide and chucked his head into the barricade, the springboard-into-codebreaker counter was perfectly timed and countering a top-rope rana with a jumping powerbomb is something I surprisingly don't see too often. Still, the bulk of the match I couldn't imagine caring as much as I did (which wasn't a huge amount anyway) if it wasn't Rey. It sounds like I don't like Jericho and at this point even I am getting sick of what looks like me shitting on him, but I just keep noticing match after match he doesn't look as impressive as so many say he does. I don't want anybody to read this the wrong way - this is a very good match and a good Jericho showing, just not a great one, and Jericho doesn't stand out more than pretty much anyone else I've watched the past two days.


I liked the Punk match at Mania, but thought ER was a chore to get through. And holy fuck the feud build up was a disaster. Both guys were awful in it. "Are ya drunk right now, Punk???" Michaels feud I soured on a lot but still really liked JD and loved GAB.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> it seems like his idea of being a heel in the ring is just yelling "Come on (insert wrestlers name)!"


No, totally. Thought I was the only one who would ever point this out. Like the guy can talk and has a bunch of personality and isn't camera shy but for some reason this is all he ever seems to say to a wrestler in the ring.

Again, I think what I've seen from the guy is mostly good. But he has absolutely stunk it up, especially this decade, I think he's separated from people who do the same thing he does and who are every bit as good as he is - sometimes much better - and I find him overall overrated. Lord knows how many wrestlers I'd put ahead of him. 

--------------
@Hayley Sayoxes where are you at on 2008 ECW? Did you see the tag? THE tag? Is it awesome? I bet it's awesome.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Trust me guys. This is hilarious. Bryan taking a dump on Cameron.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

So, no love for Jericho vs Edge in 2010?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Fighter Daron said:


> So, no love for Jericho vs Edge in 2010?


Dear god, no. Their WM 26 match manages to encapsulate everything I actively despise about the "WWE main event" style, if there even is such a thing. What's even worse is Jericho talking on his podcast about how incredible that match is and how they were so smart laying it out and blah blah blah. HATE that match.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Jericho's my favourite of all time but I only want to see him return if it's as a heel and to do something meaningful like the Punk feud in 2012.

Every time he puts over someone like Fandango, Axel or someone of that ilk it really frustrates me.

Feuds with Ambrose and Bryan with one of them culminating in a retirement match at Mania next year would do nicely.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Dear god, no. Their WM 26 match manages to encapsulate everything I actively despise about the "WWE main event" style, if there even is such a thing. What's even worse is Jericho talking on his podcast about how incredible that match is and how they were so smart laying it out and blah blah blah. HATE that match.


I know people that post in this thread are well versed in this business, so I take what you say very seriously.

I just find their Mania match good, just one piece in the second best Mania of all time(for me). The match that I really LOVE from that rivalry is their Cage Match at Extreme Rules and I know I am alone in that island, but it's one of the very few cage matches I've liked.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Edge/Jericho from WM is sooo bloody boring. I mean fuck me, it's dull as shit. SO FUCKING DULL. STOP BEING DULL. Thank fuck Swagger rolled in and stole the title for a while so neither of them could be dull as shit as WHC at the time. Though it's not like they booked Swagger as a great champion either, which is kind of a shame because KING SWAGGIE was awesome and I even had a KING SWAGGIE name change and sig and avatar and everything at the time lol. What was I talking about? Oh yeah the first HIAC match is like the greatest thing ever.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Fighter Daron said:


> I know people that post in this thread are well versed in this business, so I take what you say very seriously.
> 
> I just find their Mania match good, just one piece in the second best Mania of all time(for me). The match that I really LOVE from that rivalry is their Cage Match at Extreme Rules and I know I am alone in that island, but it's one of the very few cage matches I've liked.


Bud I wouldn't take anything that I say seriously my opinion doesn't matter any more than yours or anyone else's 

Cal on the other hand, hes not to be taken seriously at anytime, he lost his mind years ago. Its amazing he still manages to use a computer . Word on the street is he watched Undertaker vs Steve Austin at Backlash 2002 roughly 134 times in a row and slowly degenerated into a state of pure insanity. That can happen to gingers, you know


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Really? I swear I thought you were going to say 'The Undertaker in my screen' 8*D

Not that it's a bad thing you miss him tho. We all do. And by that, I mean Taker in his fall of the last decade physical prime, not the current version, obviously.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Always found Jericho very inconsistent and his greatest matches were always with great workers. Not saying he had to be carried because he definitely played his part in his best matches, but if there's one guy that encapsulates the cliche "it takes two to tango", it's him. Now I have the urge to watch his WM match with Christian, see if it holds up. brb


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I like how I started this Jericho debate by just saying it would be neat if he came back for a one-off to challenge Cena one night. :lol Going by his last run against Wyatt (which was completely forgettable), I don't think we need to see Jericho full time anymore.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Flux said:


> Always found Jericho very inconsistent and his greatest matches were always with great workers. Not saying he had to be carried because he definitely played his part in his best matches, but if there's one guy that encapsulates the cliche "it takes two to tango", it's him. Now I have the urge to watch his WM match with Christian, see if it holds up. brb


That's exactly how I think of him. He's an excellent dance partner for the really great workers because he doesn't fuck up often, he knows what he's doing, and he does help raise the level of performance for those he's involved with.

Benoit had one of his 5 or so best matches ever with Jericho, as did Eddie, as did Rey, as did Triple H, as did Rock, etc and he did have a classic match with Michaels at WM 19. So he's not even close to being bad, he's really damn good, but in those classic matches with Benoit, Eddie, Rey, and Rock he wasn't the stand out performer. I'd say he was about even with Hunter in that classic LMS match but his facial expressions were corny which hurt it to some degree, he WAS the stand out performer in that match with Michaels at WM 19 though, at least for me.

All in all the positives for Jericho far outweigh the negatives for me. As long as he isn't the focal point of a show or taking time away from guys younger and better than him that need the screen time he is okay to pop in and out as he pleases. Then again I haven't watched Raw or Smackdown in about a year other than watching a replay if I hear some great match or segment happened :lol


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I like Jericho, could care less about his runs in 2013 and 2014 but I liked his 2012 stuff with Punk. The Edge/Jericho match at mania is just awful though, it is SO BORING. I've heard Jericho sing its praises but I guess that just is because him and Edge are tight 

Been watching a lot of Vader lately, I'd seen some of it before but I really enjoy everything the dude does, its all just :mark:


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I re-watched the Bash Jericho/Rey in 2013 and just didn't get what's so amazing about it. Rey was Rey and Jericho was fine and the match was nothing to sneeze at but if it happened in 2010 I doubt I'd list it above Rey's match with Mike Knox from SuperStars which isn't in my top ten without the list even being finished.


It was smooth as hell. Just so slick, with all of the stuff that they were doing. The timing was also sublime too. I knew the result due to the stipulation, but I was still totally caught up. It was one of the most well laid-out main event style matches that the WWE has had in the past few years.

Really don't see what's not to like about it. 

Both men were on top of their games, and they moved as one, and that's always a joy to watch.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Am I still the only one that thinks Jericho is a top tier all-time talent?


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

I'm still with you, but I'll admit that since the Mysterio feud ended, everything he's done has been to diminishing returns.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I really can't think of a memorable Jericho match within the last 5 years tbh. His feud with Rey was definitely his peak as a performer.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Am I still the only one that thinks Jericho is a top tier all-time talent?


I'm with you, FF.


----------



## NatP (Aug 9, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Am I still the only one that thinks Jericho is a top tier all-time talent?


Jericho is my all-time favorite wrestler so yes I agree with you.

Though I also agree with everyone that says his latest stuff hasn't been that great.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Fighter Daron said:


> So, no love for Jericho vs Edge in 2010?


Mmmmm......sorry.. :shrug:$

Mania


Spoiler: big post apparently






> Chris Jericho v. Edge
> Yay! It’s two wrestlers wrestling back and forth in a match that you could go to any random indy show and see! This is awful. I originally had zero hope for this being any good, but I saw that they actually had something to work with in the video package – spear v. Achilles tendon. Edge had hit the spear multiple times on Jericho, and he said ‘one more time and you won’t be champion any more’. OK, good. Jericho knew of Edge’s injury and said he would exploit it. OK, good. Only almost none of that happened. I was completely expecting back and forth sub-indy bullshit from these two, especially in 2010, but for fuck’s sake, if you have this little story to work with how about you capitalize on it? They start boringly chain wrestling which isn’t horrible but I don’t need it. At the very least though I can understand having a match be kind of back and forthy when it starts. Then Jericho gets on top and my God what a bore. I still didn’t think it was awful at that point, but, dude, Jericho, you said you were going to attack Edge’s injury…you have the match. How about you start NOW? Oh no, we can’t have that – we need reversals and more back and forth. Of course you do. It’s not even the kind of back and forth I can tolerate. I remember writing about the CM Punk/Matt Hardy match for the 2008 KOTR months back, and I said reversals didn’t bother me if no offensive move was hit. You’re not ignoring any move that’s already happened – you’re smartly preventing it from happening. No, here they hit the moves and lifelessly throw some bland ‘I’m tired but still hitting shit’ motions back, with seemingly no thought behind them. And it’s not as if any of it looked good on execution either. Jericho did at least have a badass reversal of the spear into the walls, which Edge reversed into a pin of some kind. Then Edge gets up immediately following that (no selling the Walls), and eats an elbow about as convincingly as a toddler playing Power Rangers. Edge’s best spot in the match was stopping Jericho’s spear by booting him directly in the face. Then, naturally, ruining it by getting ready for his own spear by embarrassingly clawing his hands out and making those ridiculous faces. I really hate watching Edge. I just fucking hate it. I did appreciate that they worked the spear into this – in a way that Jericho had to avoid it, but it was too separated by random piles of nothing. Some BS goes on outside and then the ref gets knocked over about as convincingly as Edge playing wrestling. Jericho, after an eternity of bad THIS STUFF, finally attacks the Achilles which forces Edge to fight back for two seconds on one leg. See? Isn’t this what the match should have been!? I don’t see why nobody thought ‘we should have a match where Edge has his injury worked on and gets hopeful shots in, including spears’. That would have worked, I’d think!? Maybe not, because Edge does a Cactus Clothesline, lands on the ankle, and doesn’t even acknowledge it. Oh what a great worker that man was. Fuck Edge. Jericho hits like his 7th codebreaker to finally put my misery to an end. I cannot stress how much I didn’t like this. Just crappy wrestling. Keep this dire, dreary, lifeless scat away from me. NOT ADDING.


God I was so angry at this match. :lmao Re-reading that I wanted to make clear that "I really hate watching Edge. I just fucking hate it" is hyperbole. Well it isn't because it came after me talking about the spear set up, and I genuinely hate the spear eye-puffy mouth-grinny thing, but I obviously don't base the entire wrestler or his career over that. There's Edge stuff I like. Do I hate watching Edge in *2010*, though?..........Yeah. Really kinda a lot.

ER


> Chris Jericho v. Edge
> I am so glad this was boring. I knew there was approximately zero chance of these two at this point in their overrated career where they both sucked ass having a likeable, decent match. So I thought that this would either be boring or frustrating, and I would much, much, much rather be bored than frustrated (their Mania match was way frustrating, just in case you missed me bombing a country b/c of my hatred for it). The pre-story shit here got me less excited than last time because I knew these two would pretty much ignore it and wrestle their same vanilla bullshit that anybody who works on the indies can do. Jericho said he will end Edge’s career and something about the Achilles, and Edge said he won’t escape the cage – he’ll go after Jericho. Well what do you fucking know? Edge didn’t once try to leave the cage. That was nice of him to keep his word. It was also nice of him to not make any contact on punches, stomps, and gingerly fluffy clotheslines so Jericho wouldn’t go through any pain. What a great guy. And My God, that part where he goes to send Jericho into the cage and it looks as fake as anything I’ve ever seen. Now that dear wrestling fans, is how you protect a man. At the very least I can say I saw Edge try to limp a couple of times, and that his slow boringassness can be explained by the fact he doesn’t want to put pressure on his Achilles. Still…..shouldn’t force you to throw punches and clotheslines that’d make Kofi Kingston laugh at you. Also shouldn’t make you give a babyface-at-the-bottom performance that makes HHH and Orton on this PPV look like Ricky Morton and Jerry Lawler. Jericho doesn’t keep true to his ‘I will end Edge’s career [or whatever]’ word and instead constantly runs away and is hesitant to even get into the cage. I can say there were some decently entertaining moments where he tried run out of the cage, like after landing on his feet on the missed lionsault. And another, but I forget. They do the fakey ‘he’s not really trying to escape it’s obvious’ shtick really poorly, and Edge trying to be tired b/c of injury should add to the drama, but instead just makes Jericho looks like he’s waiting for Edge to grab him. Later on there’s a part where Jericho (after running away several times) is on the steps, about to leave, and he goes back in. ??????????????? Whatever. I’m not coming up with an explanation for this shit. He attacks Edge’s foot literally ONCE, btw. FUCKING ONCE. He tries to swing a chair at it but Edge moves out of the way. ONCEEEE. Edge attacks Jericho’s foot five thousand times more than Jericho did in either match, to the point where - when Jericho starts begging off - you actually think Edge is doing it for no reason. Naturally Edge makes stupid spear faces somewhere in their, and by this time they had become ‘HE’S GONE TO THAT PLACE HEARING VOICES’-esque bullshit. I feel like I should mention fifteen other things wrong with this but I don’t recall them and I think I’d rather forget about the four hours I spent watching it anyway (and the eighteen hours between watching the entrance and the actual match b/c I wasn’t ready for this shittery). This was obviously a worthless match that went too long, in case I haven’t made my opinion clear. I don’t understand how anybody can watch this and see two above average wrestlers. Please let this end now. NOT ADDING.








The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Bud I wouldn't take anything that I say seriously my opinion doesn't matter any more than yours or anyone else's


Goes without saying that I concur with this. People like me can be really vocal and sometimes it's not fun to see a favourite get shredded but don't mistake it for anything else other than a single opinion (or sometimes, just fun). I said right at the end of that ^ "I don’t understand how anybody can watch this and see two above average wrestlers." Which I meant - I don't understand it, but I don't CARE if anybody does. It is completely factual that Jericho mostly ignored Edge's ankle injury in the match. It can't be argued. You can't get the video up and talk about something that didn't happen. If that doesn't bother somebody then, y'know, OK. What am I gonna say? "It should bother you"?? Maybe if I thought they were being hypocritical by judging one match with that in mind while not judging this one. Still, I mean, objectivity and visceral bothering are often two different things. It bothered me AND I thought it was shit. It might not bother someone else. They might not think it's shit. Well damn, fine, whatever.

Wrestling is one of those things where everyone has shit on someone else's opinion. Everybody's. Done. It. It's no more clear than when Meltzer's ratings are posted and the next ten posts are "lmao ***3/4 for that he's lost his mind." Even if that happens I don't think anybody's trying to change an opinion. Welllll, not trying to change a positive one. I would never go "watch Angle/Benoit again, you'll realise it sucks." Chances are they wouldn't agree if they did watch it again, but I don't want try to ruin that for them, that's terrible. I WOULD go "You think LA PARKA sucks?? Try this stuff out to maybe change your mind." I will then shred the son of a bitch to pieces for thinking La Parka sucks because fuck that guy's opinion. :mark:



LilOlMe said:


> It was smooth as hell. Just so slick, with all of the stuff that they were doing. The timing was also sublime too. I knew the result due to the stipulation, but I was still totally caught up. It was one of the most well laid-out main event style matches that the WWE has had in the past few years.
> 
> Really don't see what's not to like about it.
> 
> Both men were on top of their games, and they moved as one, and that's always a joy to watch.


It was a while ago so I'm struggling to remember it but I *did* like it. I didn't think it was amazing, is all, really. I don't remember it being really smooth or that they were especially in-sync with each other the whole thing. That isn't an insult because that kind of thing is rare, though (The Rey/Orton SD match is an example of a match I thought both guys were totally in-sync with each other). It sounds like I didn't think the match was good but sometimes I talk about a match based off of other praise for it so my own praise might look like bashing instead. Some....how. Like if I spend the entire match praising it well there's all this other praise so people might get the wrong idea that I think it's as good as everyone says it is. Which is funny because the way I word people might think that I think it's worse than I think it is. I fully don't think Jericho was super impressive in it, was the main thing. Like that feud is one of the "Best in the World" periods for him for some people and I didn't see anything that looked like he would be the best in the world during any month of any year. I said as much before that I don't think he did anything wrong but I'd watched a bunch of great WWE stuff from 2008 ECW before it and thought that the heels in those matches were way, way better than he was, and they don't get really that kind of praise for it. I thought they were pretty much great so Jericho not being on level isn't really a slight. If everybody thought Jericho was "Good" in the match and not "BITW" I would have just said "yeah, that, I'm with everybody."

It's Rey so I'll watch the whole feud again one day.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

^I totally get that. I was that way with WM31. I actually quite enjoyed it, but when I saw most people creaming over it online, I sounded more negative on it.

I don't really care about either Jericho or Rey, so I went in not caring, and came away really loving that match. On re-watch, it held up, IMO.

I do always love a good codebreaker out of nowhere, though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> @Hayley Sayoxes where are you at on 2008 ECW? Did you see the tag? THE tag? Is it awesome? I bet it's awesome.


Nah. That ECW project took a backseat recently b/c I was actually super busy this past week. I'm talking like hardly any wrestling. I can always put some more on now. Not a bad idea. Still a bit too far away from the tag, unless I skip. :hmm:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Mitsuharu Misawa, Toshiaki Kawada & Kenta Kobashi vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi (AJPW 4/20/91)*






THE legendary 6-man Japan tag. It's nearly an hour long and is fucking INCREDIBLE. Taue cheapshots Kawada on the apron three times during the first ten minutes, after
the third shot, i found myself shouting at the screen "That's three fucking times" lol. 

Brilliant moment when Taue is in the ring with Kobashi, and Kawada has had enough and just storms into the ring and starts pounding on Taue, and the next couple of minutes turn into a sort of 'quasi shoot', where Kobashi/Misawa hold back Kawada, looks great and makes you think, due to the heat, if its real.

But my most favorite part, and one of my favorite bits in wrestling now is this:

http://gfycat.com/FlashyPoliteBuck

Its fucking magical. That air of grace and then 'Thwack' :mark:

I only watched the full match the other day, having only seen the JIP version up until now.

GET.ON.THIS.SHIT.NOW.

Not WWE, but if you have a spare hour and want to watch something truly special.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That trilogy is something else. First match was the sprintiest 30 minutes I've seen. Nobody stops working. Filled with a shit ton of action. And then the second one has so much great stuff, but the Taue/Kawada interactions were just as heated as the most blood-filled brawls. Third one was the most "traditional" tag match of the three, but it featured the heels attacking Misawa's knee and the heels were generally very impressive.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

One of my favourite things to ever happen in history is Kawada flipping Fuchi off in the 92 tag for all of his interferences.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Pardon my potential ignorance here, but isn't this Kane's first US title match? Belt was obviously the feature to SD for years while Kane was on raw and when Kane had his brief stints elsewhere, he challenged for the ECW and WH title.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

He feuded with Ambrose over the title in 2013. Most notable for a weak Payback match.

Matches like this are why I can't understand why people think the Cena vs. big man formula is his best stuff.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Pretty sure he wrestled Ambrose for it in 2013


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Damn, Ambrose vs. Harper in a Chicago Street Fight at Extreme Rules. That sounds pretty awesome. Show has tons of potential, really.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Haven't read into it, but no idea why the curbstomp is allegedly (and judging on tonight and wwe's anti-puro philosophy of establishing secondary match enders) banned The bump is almost entirely on the receiver of the move, and heck other than Brock can't think of many who spike themselves into the mat. Safe move not to mention I think it is a great finish for Rollins' character, style, the guy has a wwe-styled offense centered around it that results in strong quality usually and the move has a kayfabe history. Don't get it since I haven't read into it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If that's true then ughhhhhh.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Not really feeling ER. Not that the card doesn't have match potential, but I'm just so disinterested in the card and the build as a whole.

Rollins/Orton may be a good match and with the RKO banned, we may see Orton try to pull stuff out of the ordinary. I'm not expecting it to be great and a Rollins win is obvious.

Cena/Rusev... chain match... bleh.

Barrett/Bryan may not even happen apparently. That fucking sucks. The two have chemistry and could pull together a great match if Bryan is healthy enough. The build has been non-existent though.

Ziggler/Sheamus will probably be really good, maybe even great, but the feud is so basic and Sheamus, even as a heel, is still horrible on the mic and doing this feud no favors. Ziggler isn't really doing much either. 

Naomi vs. Nikki... could be a solid match actually and Naomi with her heel turn has me about as interested in the divas as I can be at this point. 

Ambrose/Harper, if given the time and the leeway, is my pick to be MOTN. Build hasn't been strong but it also hasn't been the worst. Expecting a great match here.


And curb-stomp being bad is just... I don't know. Product is back to being at a super low for me like it was from October-December last year. May be even worse now. And with Mizdow being done, if nothing happens with Sandow starting next week, I'm not sure how much longer I can watch. I'm not one of those people that say they'll quit watching every week, but at this point I'm struggling to see anything starting next week that I'm looking forward to. Wyatt/Reigns has been rumored, not sure if I believe it 100% but if it is the case, fuck that. No clue what Rollins will do, maybe this Orton feud will continue through to Payback? And if not, and if Reigns is occupied, and if Ziggler loses, who the fuck does Rollins feud with? Only an Ambrose feud over the title would be interesting to me right now, but I'm not looking forward to seeing Ambrose job to Rollins yet again. Cena's open challenges are interesting but with them there's no point in Cena feuding with anyone. Bryan may be hurt and out of action which puts the IC Title back on Barrett, which means the IC Title will be in job city yet again unless Vince decides to start booking Barrett correctly. And even if Bryan does retain the IC Title and doesn't need time off, a feud with Sheamus doesn't interest me in the slightest. 

Yeah, I'm very pessimistic with regards to WWE right now. I honestly can't remember ever feeling worse about the product than I do right now. I want to try and survive until Summerslam when Brock comes back and things hopefully start getting good again, but even that depends on Brock's schedule. The lack of Heyman is also very noticeable.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You know I actually like the build of some of the midcard matches for Extreme Rules. Bryan/Barrett and Ambrose/Harper have both been simple but effective without any missteps. Sheamus/Ziggler was almost there, but then they added a dumb stipulation. Surprised that people don't like Sheamus' mic work. I think this past month has been Sheamus' best work in his career by a huge distance. And Sheamus is having so much fun from the looks of it. Tag team stuff looks intriguing because somehow Kofi Kingston and gang have become interesting. Cena/Rusev is not too interesting, but I have faith in Rusev to pull off something good and I like Cena's title reign so far. Slightly interested in the main event even if I don't care at all for Orton. Not even going to give the change in finisher the liberty.

On paper, I'm fine with the Extreme Rules card, although it could be better. What puts it over though is that it's in Chicago. That crowd can make this show great.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Yeah, no doubt the crowd will be great. Also, I forgot about the stip for Sheamus/Ziggler... I still don't know what that means? Is it a normal match where the loser kisses the winner's ass? Or do they try to make the other kiss their ass? Or is their some other part in this? The stip, depending on what exactly it is, can let the match live up to it's potential or completely squash any chance of it.

I can't argue that it's Sheamus' best mic work of his career so far, but that's not saying much. Still sucks to me, but he does look like he's having a lot of fun and I guess that's what counts. However, certainly much better than the last time he was a heel. 

New Day works so much better as a heel group and has been one of the highlights of Raw the last couple weeks. Still not enough to make me mark for any of the guys or to keep me watching if everything else is terrible.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Couldn't they keep the curb stomp around as a rare deadly thing like Orton's punt? I'm not the one taking it so I don't know how dangerous it is or isn't but a COMPLETE ban for it is something I wouldn't have expected.

Ambrose/Harper in a brawl is the most glad I've been to hear of a WWE match's announcement since Henry got a world title shot at MITB 2013.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I too apathetic towards WWE to have much faith on Ambrose vs Harper in an actual brawl to be more than rudimentary. Most of their TV matches have actually been good, but the stigma of a gimmick w/this company worries me.

That being said, it's the only thing walking into the show I have any defined interest in.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> One of my favourite things to ever happen in history is Kawada flipping Fuchi off in the 92 tag for all of his interferences.


Is that the 05/22 tag?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yep. Was my favourite match ever. For about one month in 2010, anyway. Might still be my favourite of the AJ six-manses if I re-watched them all. Maybe my personal favourite AJ match in general.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Only a 'Joined in progress' version is available, isn't it?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Curious about the most weirdest things atm

Since the chatbox discussion of some Matt Hardy video (about Lita), i was thinking of looking back on the Matt Hardy/Edge fued. What were peoples thoughts on that?

CM Punk/Jeff Hardy

and peoples thoughts on worthy matches during the whole invasion storyline (which i know is hated a lot)


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

KENNY said:


> Curious about the most weirdest things atm
> 
> Since the chatbox discussion of some Matt Hardy video (about Lita), i was thinking of looking back on the Matt Hardy/Edge fued. What were peoples thoughts on that?
> 
> ...


Matt Hardy vs. Edge from Unforgiven is my favourite WWE match of all time and my second favourite match in general (Joe/Kobashi tops that list) and is must watch material. Even if you've seen it already, it's well worth a rewatch, another rewatch, another.... And another. The whole feud was pretty fantastic and should have been the launching pad to Matt's stardom, but as always, WWE logic dictates that one person must win a feud and progress whilst the other flounders (a more recent example being Rollins/Ambrose). Their Summerslam match is a spectacle as well, whilst not being a great 'match'.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Brock said:


> Only a 'Joined in progress' version is available, isn't it?


I had to google that because I'd never heard that before. Highspots came up and for some reason on a Jumbo/Misawa set they have a few JIP matches that I'm ENTIRELY sure exist in full and are awesome.

Looks like there was a supposed 75 minute AJ tag that got heavily clipped around 92-93 or something. I think there were rumors that it was 5/22/92, but all indication seems to point that the 36 minutes we get is the full match and that the 75 minute one was a 4-on-4 a month earlier. Funnily enough it's on the Highspots set and not listed as JIP. Come to think it I remember that match on the 92 yearbook and it might be in full on there. I might check the chapter length of the discs tomorrow.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WrestlingOracle said:


> Pardon my potential ignorance here, but isn't this Kane's first US title match? Belt was obviously the feature to SD for years while Kane was on raw and when Kane had his brief stints elsewhere, he challenged for the ECW and WH title.


He wrestled against MVP in 2007 for the belt . Cyber Sunday, I does believe.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I had to google that because I'd never heard that before. Highspots came up and for some reason on a Jumbo/Misawa set they have a few JIP matches that I'm ENTIRELY sure exist in full and are awesome.
> 
> Looks like there was a supposed 75 minute AJ tag that got heavily clipped around 92-93 or something. I think there were rumors that it was 5/22/92, but all indication seems to point that the 36 minutes we get is the full match and that the 75 minute one was a 4-on-4 a month earlier. Funnily enough it's on the Highspots set and not listed as JIP. Come to think it I remember that match on the 92 yearbook and it might be in full on there. I might check the chapter length of the discs tomorrow.


Think this is the match: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34ZhshnVS0E

I sure that is the only available version TBH, and the one that is on the Yearbook too,

Highspots have done that before in regards to including JIP matches. i had their 'Holy Demon Army' set and a few matches were JIP, when i sure i have them in full on my Kawada comp. Maybe it has something to do with disc constraints, or that they were unaware a full one existed.

Mind you, only over the last few years has some Japan matches surfaces in full, the 04/20/91 tag, the Kroffat/Furnas ;92 tag for example.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I've only ever seen that '92 tag as a JIP. There's only a small bit missing on the front end, though, according to Ditch.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Ohhhhh did you mean the lack of introductions and stuff? Forgot about that. That might just be like a commercial break thing. Like "we return shortly with this match" and we miss maybe the first couple minutes. Not that it aired live I'm assuming but in the same kind of vein, I guess? I won't pretend to now how it worked.

jdw at PWO (he was watching AJ at the time, went there a few times to see it live, knew Meltzer I think, etc) said in a post a few years ago (that I'm looking at now, not that I remember him saying it) that the match was 36:36. If he's right there'd be a max of around 150 seconds from the beginning of the match missing from the video. 

I got a Tiger Mask DVD from Highspots five years ago and the thing took so fucking long to arrive to my house that my tastes had changed and I'd soured on Tiger Mask before the DVD even got here. :lmao I thought the silver lining was I'd get a few full matches with Fujinami and Villano III and others but they sometimes CLIPPED the tag matches to AVOID NOT SHOWING TIGER MASK. Fujinami tags in and they cut to the next fookin Tiger Mask interaction instead.

edit - fuck it I'm asking, who's watched Taue/Williams 4/20/96? It's unreal.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks guys. Yeah, i did mean to say the match starts in progress, rather than anything missing from the middle. Good to know hardly any of the match is missing though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So, I watched SS 2013 the other day. Well, the big 3 main events anyway. So last night I decided to stick in ER 2012 for it's 3 main events to see how it compares.

Sheamus/Bryan is still terrific.

Jericho/Punk is awful. Went waaaay down on this.

Lesnar/Cena is still spectacular.

So, with those two shows out of the way, I'm assuming there are now ZERO PPV's with 3 main event matches that are also ALL great?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Beach Blast 1992? Can't quite remember the DA six man clearly but I can remember it being more than solid, and granted the Steiners/MVC match isn't as good as their COTC match but it's still great. Those two + the obvious Steamboat/Rude match creates a pretty great triple-header and one of the few events I can think of that's three main events rival ER and Summerslam.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk/Jericho is still my MOTN :side:


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> So, I watched SS 2013 the other day. Well, the big 3 main events anyway. So last night I decided to stick in ER 2012 for it's 3 main events to see how it compares.
> 
> Sheamus/Bryan is still terrific.
> 
> ...


Bryan/HHH, Cena/Wyatt and Bryan/Batista/Orton form Wrestlemania 30? I think they're all great.

Obviously Taker/Brock was a main event but we'll say for arguments sake it wasn't...


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

Ryan193 said:


> Bryan/HHH, Cena/Wyatt and Bryan/Batista/Orton form Wrestlemania 30? I think they're all great.
> 
> Obviously Taker/Brock was a main event but we'll say for arguments sake it wasn't...


I really think Daniel Bryan was the only good thing out of that Mania, Cena/Wyatt was so underwhelming and the triple threat wasn't anything special. Only Bryan/Trips and the post-main event celebration were great.

PPVs with three big main events? Not Mania I assume...MITB 2011?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Even with those three from WM30, still wouldn't say that's three great main event matches as the triple threat main event I'd call good, not great. Great ending moment to a Mania though if that counts!

And I still love the three main events from ER 2012. Punk/Jericho I do agree is the weakest of the three but still an excellent match. Bryan/Sheamus is a bit better and Lesnar/Cena was awesome.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM XX triple threat is kinda sucky.

Might give MITB 2011 a watch at some point. Only match that stands out to me is the main event. Orton/Christian I don't remember anything about, and I'm not certain what I'll think to the 2 ladder matches these days .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Skip MITB 2011 Cal. You already have a bias against ladder matches and Randy Orton. Continue on with 2008.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

People may not have seen it. Hennig playing the heel here.

*Jerry Lawler vs Mr. Perfect (USWA Mid South Coliseum 08.09.1993)*

x2ng92i


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

watched a handful of matches whilst trying to think of a mini project to undertake...

*Judgement Day 2006
*Kurt Angle vs. Mark Henry
_This was so frustrating. Never knew this match happened and on paper it sounds like it could have been great, and it almost was. Plucky babyface Angle with injured ribs vs. destructive monster Henry with limited time? Sounds good. It wasn't. Well it was for the first few minutes - Kurt taking the fight to Mark made for a great start, a sweet roundhouse kick to the head of Mizark and even some weird looking flippy thing that looked cool despite Kurt landing on his head._ _Then Henry cuts him off and works the injured ribs and it's working; I'm invested, I care. BUT THENNNN Kurt sells worse than Gil from the Simpsons, german suplexes him and Angle slams him. Fuckkk offfffff! Completely took me out of the match, as did the finish. A pretty fun start, up the swanny due to Kurt being Kurt. Disappointing._

*Wrestlemania XX
*Christian vs. Chris Jericho
_This is so much better than I remembered it being. Granted, it didn't flow great and it seemed clunky at times but it wouldn'thave felt right had it been completely smooth. Both guys went for each other, proper walloping each otherand it gave the impression that they sincerely disliked each other. Both men took some wicked bumps as well which is always a bonus and it was back and forthy, but the good type of back and forthy that makes it fun to watch, not the pointless back and forthy that makes me shake my head. Couple that with a nice piece of story progression and a pretty undertalkedabout 'Wrestlemania moment', and you've got the makings of a nifty little match._

*Great American Bash 2006
*_WWE Tag Team Championships
_Paul London and Brian Kendrick (c) vs. The Pitbulls
_This is exactly what you want from this match - A hot start, a sweet transition, a lengthy workover and a hotter finish. Kash and Noble were gritty on offence and bumped well for Londrick, Paul London was great as the FIP and Kendrick was surprisingly much better than I thought with the hot tag. London took a fucking crazy bump as he tried to the skin the cat, Noble dropkicked him midway and London just fell back first on the floor - Had to rewatch it a few times, god bless him. Fantastic match. How good were London and Kendrick in 2006?!_


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Ohhhhh did you mean the lack of introductions and stuff? Forgot about that. That might just be like a commercial break thing. Like "we return shortly with this match" and we miss maybe the first couple minutes. Not that it aired live I'm assuming but in the same kind of vein, I guess? I won't pretend to now how it worked.
> 
> jdw at PWO (he was watching AJ at the time, went there a few times to see it live, knew Meltzer I think, etc) said in a post a few years ago (that I'm looking at now, not that I remember him saying it) that the match was 36:36. If he's right there'd be a max of around 150 seconds from the beginning of the match missing from the video.
> 
> ...


I'm gonna look for Taue/Williams, but any other recs from you or anyone else would be wonderful, I've got time to kill until the Wiz play at 8. WCW, WWE, NJPW, AJPW, ROH, don't care what it is as long as I can find it online


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brock's sig is both the funniest & greatest thing ever. Misawa still being able to move like a junior then plunking someone w/an elbow after his hotdogging. Only person that likes it more than us is Chris Hero circa 2007.



Flux said:


> watched a handful of matches whilst trying to think of a mini project to undertake...
> 
> *Judgement Day 2006
> *Kurt Angle vs. Mark Henry
> ...


Huh. For as much as I've watched Angle vs Henry, I never did wise up enough about his hurt core then being able to bust out moves that lift a monstrous man off of his feet. I hope I don't notice it too much now. :evil Guess out of any poor Angle selling & his transition into crummy cyborg ways, this might be the match that gets the biggest pass by me.

Good call about the Christian vs Jericho match being clunky, but that's just Jericho for ya. Doesn't mean that's bad; he's simply not a smooth worker 90% of the time. And it plays well into how you said: HATE. Always liked that match.

Goes w/o saying that the London & Kendrick vs Pitbulls match is kind of like heaven. I'd go out and say at least one of the tags vs Regal & Taylor from the end of the year is even better on the L&K calendar. Which is terrific to top something already so strong. I'm so glad they got to have that run.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I was so fixated on Misawa, I missed Kobashi's outside splash lol when I watched it.

I just love the grace of Misawa, then he gets up and just throws a thunderous right hander.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kobashi lowkey entering the ring just to do a plancha, spectacular. Then the Fuchi sell of the elbow too :lol


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

#ROOT said:


> WM XX triple threat is kinda sucky.
> 
> Might give MITB 2011 a watch at some point. Only match that stands out to me is the main event. Orton/Christian I don't remember anything about, and I'm not certain what I'll think to the 2 ladder matches these days .


I think Christian (of all people, well I think he was motivated because they handled him the world title for a minute) is the one wrestler who has guided Orton to his best series of matches, I'd call this specifically very good, two good ladder matches and a CLASSIC at the Main Event.

This event is surefire in any best PPVs of all time discussion.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I'm gonna look for *Taue/Williams*, but any other recs from you or anyone else would be wonderful, I've got time to kill until the Wiz play at 8. WCW, WWE, NJPW, AJPW, ROH, don't care what it is as long as I can find it online


If you can't find that match online, ill upload it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MITB 2011 is worthy of being remembered, but it isn't a standout PPV as a whole. I might still enjoy the opener, but right now it is only home to two things I love: Punk vs Cena & Henry vs Show.

Unsure if I've seen that Taue vs Williams match myself. It's a blur, so lets just cut my losses and say I'm pro a Zep upload.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I'm gonna look for Taue/Williams, but any other recs from you or anyone else would be wonderful, I've got time to kill until the Wiz play at 8. WCW, WWE, NJPW, AJPW, ROH, don't care what it is as long as I can find it online


you should watch taue/williams 4/20/96 



Hayley Seydoux said:


> Goes w/o saying that the London & Kendrick vs Pitbulls match is kind of like heaven. I'd go out and say at least one of the tags vs Regal & Taylor from the end of the year is even better on the L&K calendar. Which is terrific to top something already so strong. I'm so glad they got to have that run.


I'm positive they have a SD match with MNM around Feb/March just as good as anything else too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

They had like 4-5 tags vs MNM to set up the Judgment Day match, iirc. So much London & Kendrick in 2006.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The triple main event from ER 2012 goes unmatched by anything the WWE has ever produced. Summerslam 2013 comes super close but I prefer Punk/Jericho to Christian/Dl Rio so it gets slightly edged out.


----------



## Paul Rudd (Oct 23, 2010)

I thought the 'Mania 30 triple threat was the MOTN, just for the 2 false finishes alone.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Extreme Rules 2012 big 3 vs SummerSlam 2013 big 3, eh?

Punker vs Brock
Cena vs Brock
Christian vs Del Rio
Danielson vs Cena/Danielson vs Sheamus (unsure which I prefer atm)
Punker vs Jericho

Either way, two of my top three are from SummerSlam, so that wins. I already knew it would. b/c PUNK VS BROCK HAPPENED THERE. DUH.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Just watched these matches last night/today, while I'm putting together a compilation/project to watch, or trying to figure out the best way to do so.

*X-Pac (WWF) vs Billy Kidman (Alliance-WCW Cruiserweight Champion) (Invasion 2001)*

I thought this was a decent match. The face buster countering the X-factor, and the countering of X-Pac moves in general was nice. ** 1/2

*William Regal (WWF) vs Raven (Alliance)*

Nice little match from two talents I liked back then, but definitely appreciate more today. Run in by TAZZ

** 1/2

* Rob Van Dam (Alliance) vs Jeff Hardy (c) (WWF) for the WWF Hardcore Championship*

Very memorable match. Brought back memories when I watched it live in 2001. These two have always had great chemistry in the ring together and their styles mesh well together. RVD got a huge ovation too. Solid match, RVD wins after 12 minutes to become the new Hardcore champion. 

*** 3/4 - ****

*Main Event- Booker T, Diamond Dallas Page, Rhyno and The Dudley Boyz (Bubba Ray and D-Von) vs Stone Cold Steve Austin, Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, The Undertaker and Kane in an Inaugural Brawl match*

Everyone knows what went down and how it ended. I thought the match itself was solid too, and involved a lot of my favourite wrestlers in one ring. The ALLIANCE coming out on top after a Austin heel turn.

*** 3/4

* Mankind (c) vs The Rock in an “I Quit” match for the World Wrestling Federation Championship (Royal Rumble 1999)*

Absolute classic match. At the time it was probably one of the best I Quit matches I've seen. Watching it again that many years later was a great experience and further appreciate what a legend Mick Foley actually is. Definitely saved the show as the earlier matches were quite trash. 

**** 

*“Love Her or Leave Her” Greenwich Street Fight- Test vs Shane McMahon (Summerslam 1999) *

(If Test wins, he gets to LOVE Stephanie.

If Shane wins, Test has to LEAVE Stephanie.)

This match really surprised me - because I'm not even sure if I watched this back then in 1999, but I remember the whole feud. Great performance by both men, and from memory it was Shane o'Mac's first sort of actual match - and started to have him in more from there. One of Tests best matches imo.

*** 

*The Undertaker and The Big Show vs X-Pac and Kane (c) for the WWF Tag Team Championship*

Dat UNHOLY ALLIANCE. Back then (and probably the only time) I was supporting X-pac. Well booked and decent match.

** - ** 1/2

Mask Vs. Cruiserweight Championship Match: Eddie Guerrero Vs. Rey Mysterio (Halloween Havoc, 10/26/97) –

Absolute classic. I prefer this to their WWE matches, I might be in the minority for that but the story in this match is wonderful. 

**** 1/2

Bret “Hit Man” Hart Vs. “Macho Man” Randy Savage (Guest Ref – “Rowdy” Roddy Piper) (Slamboree, 5/17/98)

Disappointing match from two great talents but were not good in WCW at all, or if so very rarely. 

** and that's being nice. 

*Jean Paul Levesque Vs. Alex Wright (Starrcade, 12/27/94)*

:lmao this went for 15 minutes. 

*

WCW World Television Title: Steven Regal vs. Ultimo Dragon (c) (Slamboree 1997)

Solid match. Great opener for this PPV, and in my opinion the best match on the PPV. 

*** 3/4

I'm going to go watch some more matches now at random.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

Exotic Express said:


> I thought the 'Mania 30 triple threat was the MOTN, just for the 2 false finishes alone.


For me, it was DB vs HHH in the opener.


----------



## Paul Rudd (Oct 23, 2010)

I'm guessing this may have been posted before since I always see the No Mercy match get praised. This is Chris Benoit vs Finlay from August 1991 in Germany:


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

On the subject of old Benoit matches... has anyone seen Kawada/Benoit from Stampede in 1986?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I liked the Mania 3 way when it aired, and watched it a month ago and it holds up, but gosh, it's a Bryan carryjob


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I'm gonna look for Taue/Williams, but any other recs from you or anyone else would be wonderful, I've got time to kill until the Wiz play at 8. WCW, WWE, NJPW, AJPW, ROH, don't care what it is as long as I can find it online





Hayley Seydoux said:


> MITB 2011 is worthy of being remembered, but it isn't a standout PPV as a whole. I might still enjoy the opener, but right now it is only home to two things I love: Punk vs Cena & Henry vs Show.
> 
> Unsure if I've seen that Taue vs Williams match myself. It's a blur, so lets just cut my losses and say I'm pro a Zep upload.


*Steve Williams vs Akira Taue (All Japan 04.20.1996)*






Had to use YT as DM has been shit since it updated it's site.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> *Steve Williams vs Akira Taue (All Japan 04.20.1996)*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Gosh thanks a bunch, I do love me some Dr. Death in Japan. One of the reasons I started getting into all this AJPW stuff from that era is a match I think Hayley or someone else in this thread showed me between Williams and Misawa, wanna say it's 93-94. Just an amazing match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Gosh thanks a bunch, I do love me some Dr. Death in Japan. One of the reasons I started getting into all this AJPW stuff from that era is a match I think Hayley or someone else in this thread showed me between Williams and Misawa, wanna say it's 93-94. Just an amazing match.




07/28/94

Could be the date. Was it when Misawa lost the Triple Crown? If so, that is it.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Cover for Daniel Bryan's DVD/Blu-ray:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brock :mark:



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Gosh thanks a bunch, I do love me some Dr. Death in Japan. One of the reasons I started getting into all this AJPW stuff from that era is a match I think Hayley or someone else in this thread showed me between Williams and Misawa, wanna say it's 93-94. Just an amazing match.


Aye, 3/1/97.






Finally put it in my favorites list so I can always know where it is. Watch the tag championship match if you haven't, btw. It's amazing.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Gary Albright & Yoshihiro Takayama is the tag match i believe, havn't seen either myself though. 

Ill get into some Holy Demon Army once ive finished watching some more Misawa vs Kawada stuff.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

hey what is this taue/williams match don't think i've seen it before might give it a look.

edit - there's a Misawa/Williams from 93 where I thought the first half was amazing and better than Kobashi/Williams, and Misawa looked like the greatest wrestler of all time. The second half wasn't as good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's the '94 match that's always discussed, but I currently have the '97 match over it. 

Needing something to watch right now so that means Taue vs Williams will do. Did anyone else watch Kawada vs Jamal when Brock posted it? Everyone seems to love Umaga - which is great - and should certainly see it b/c he's still really awesome in it. Plays a good "not such a face" in peril too when his arm is destroyed & Kawada is a dick just attacking it. Almost flips the idea of the match on its head.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Man, Taue/Williams was absolutely incredible. My favorite part of the match is definitely when Taue is standing on the apron with Williams on the floor, Taue goes to jump off and hit Williams but good old Dr. Death cuts him off with this ungodly punch right on the nose. Nothing better than a cut off spot that is just someone getting punched really hard in the face. That was a fantastic match.


Just in case anyone has forgotten, this match does exist and it's still the fucking greatest. Regal being Regal for 16 minutes of pure bliss.


Regal vs Ohno 4/10/13 





Regal needs to hook up with Zayn/Generico before he hangs up his boots for good. I NEED to see that match, the only issue would be how to create a good storyline for it as Regal is generally the good guy in these NXT bouts, even though he still wrestles like a heel. Maybe Regal could decide he needs to go out wrestling the best, and Zayn is surely the best these days, I dunno. I just think they could have a world class match if they got say 10-15 minutes.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cody have you seen the one from 93?



Spoiler: Taue/Williams; read after watching, I guess



Ha, actually watched Taue/Williams again. Could have done without a couple of selling issues and it maybe could have gotten to the finish run earlier, but holy fuck, those last ten minutes are amazing. They were going at each other like dogs at the beginning and by the end they could barely stand up on their own. I had no recollection that Taue hit the apron chokeslam. He tried to pull it off in the Misawa/Akiyama feud the whole year and IIRC only succeeded in the RWTL tag, so seeing what an impact it had on former Triple Crown Champion Williams gives the move that much more importance at RWTL. Williams kicks out at one on a regular chokeslam so he looks like a monster and then that just fucks him up, even when he's on top. Williams' Tiger Suplex was a fucking amazing callback move, knowing what a Taue kryptonite it's been in Misawa's hands. The fact he couldn't TOTALLY damage Taue with it proves it IS Misawa's move and no one else can do like the does. I should mention that Taue/Williams is the finals of the 96 Champion's Carnival - Taue lost the 95 Champion's Carnival final to Misawa's Tiger Suplex. And even if it wasn't Misawa - Williams using that move changed the entire match.

Taue would win his only Triple Crown one month after winning this, proving to be a huge match in general. Can't believe it isn't brought up more.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I want to say I haven't. 

Regal vs Callihan is the ideal match I'm gunning for. I clearly wouldn't object to Zayn working vs him, but I think storywise & style wise, Callihan will match up better these days. All the history vs Finlay that I got to see how he'd do w/Regal.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Why couldn't we see AJPW Dr. Death in America? I'll never understand how the same guy that had those great matches in Japan could also produce some of the most boring stuff imaginable.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

You didn't like him in UWF?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Dr. Death that I saw in Mid South was different from what he was in Japan. Watts portrayed Williams more so as a young college athlete that is trying to figure out how to succeed in the world of professional wrestling. That gimmick worked well for him, but because it was so early in Williams' career, he didn't have very many standout matches or performances, and he was still trying to figure out what style to employ in the ring. I don't think he was bad in UWF. It's just that it wasn't Japan Dr. Death.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> hey what is this taue/williams match don't think i've seen it before might give it a look.
> 
> edit - there's a Misawa/Williams from 93 where I thought the first half was amazing and better than Kobashi/Williams, and Misawa looked like the greatest wrestler of all time. The second half wasn't as good.


Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Steve Williams (AJ 9/3/93) Could be that one.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah, that's it. Think it was the first match on either the 92 or 93 yearbook that I thought Misawa definitely looked better than Kawada.

Have you seen Jim Cornette v. Cowabunga the Wrestling Turtle on the 93 yearbook? Watch that first it's more important.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Yeah, that's it. Think it was the first match on either the 92 or 93 yearbook that I thought Misawa definitely looked better than Kawada.
> 
> Have you seen Jim Cornette v. Cowabunga the Wrestling Turtle on the 93 yearbook? Watch that first it's more important.


Sure have. Even uploaded it a while back for others' viewing pleasure:

*Jim Cornette vs Cowabunga (Smokey Mountain Wrestling 08.19.1993)*

x1wolt2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

How in the world have I not watched this, but seen Cornette vs Ellering?

And I want to watch this Misawa vs Williams match to see how godly Misawa looks up next to godly Kawada aka just about every Kawada performance. Plus, comparison to the '97 Williams match that I would give every snowflake in existence to.


----------



## Foreshadowed (Oct 4, 2006)

I finished the Exclusive Blu-Ray Contents of The Shield DVD, some good solid matches included on that one. Here are my ratings for each bout below:

*Rollins/Ambrose* - 20-Minute Time Limit FCW 15 Championship (FCW August 28, 2011) - ***1/2

A good match, it told a different story on this one with both men frantically trying to get that first pin fall after they failed in the 15-minute time limit contest the first time they met. I like the last 5 minutes especially where both men hit their big moves and try everything to put the other away but both keep kicking out or finding a way to avoid losing the first pinfall attempt. They end the match on the outside and of course it ends in a draw with both men looking exhausted and frustrated with not picking up the victory.

*Undertaker/Ambrose* - (SmackDown April 26, 2013) - *

Not anything special, very short in fact but I like the way Ambrose put over how big it was to face the legend that is The Undertaker and how he wished the match went on longer. Ambrose plays the heel taunting The Undertaker every time he knocks him down so well. The finish sort of comes out of no where but this will be most remembered for when The Shield destroyed The Undertaker by Powerbombing him through the announce table, putting "The Phenom" out of action indefinitely (well until the next WrestleMania).

*Reigns & Rollins/Orton & Bryan* - WWE Tag Team Championship Match (Payback 2013) - ***1/4

A solid tag team bout between these four men, it had an enjoyable start, slowed down in the middle especially when Orton was in the ring and then had a pacey finish that flowed so well leading into the finish. I especially loved the final 2-3 minutes of the match and this did a good job putting Reigns and Rollins over whilst making Orton and Bryan look strong despite the loss.

*30-Man Royal Rumble Match* - (Royal Rumble 2014) - ***1/2

The rating is based on where this match starts from (when Reigns enters so half way through the Rumble match). I'd have to go back and watch the entire thing to get an overall rating but I still remember this being a fun Rumble match. It just fell flat when Batista came out as the crowd hated him and you had this feeling he would win. Also didn't help the crowd were pleading for Daniel Bryan to come out only to have Rey Mysterio come out to heavy jeers. I felt sorry for Rey, especially with all the injuries he had suffered making him become part-time.

The match had some cool spots, some great false eliminations and the ending was well done. It did drag in parts and like I said Batista slowed the match right down after a few minutes of entering and the crowd started to turn as soon as he appeared (and when Ziggler, Punk, etc. were eliminated). Still, a good Royal Rumble that had some great moments.

Good job on the extra content and as I've stated a very fun Blu-Ray set to get. Some fantastic and classic matches featured on this set.

I'm now half way through my Money in the Bank: Straight to the Top Blu-Ray and have The Ultimate Warrior's, Mick Foley's, Sting's, CM Punk's new sets to finish on Blu-Ray as well as WCW Nitro Vol. 1 & Vol. 2 and ECW Vol. 1


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

random reviews

*WCW Cruiserweight Championship Match: Chris Jericho vs. Dean Malenko (Uncensored, 3/15/98*

Great action packed match here from Jericho and Malenko. There is a great story told and I would just have it above Jericho vs Ultimo Dragon. 

*** 1/2

WCW Championship Match: Chris Jericho vs. Kurt Angle (Rebellion, 11/3/01) 

These two have had matches before, and have always had great chemistry. This one was no different, with both pretty much adapated to the "WWE style" of things at this point, this delivers. Excellent match. 

****

*WWE Championship Match: Stone Cold Steve Austin Vs. Ken Shamrock (Raw, 9/14/98) *

Fun little match for the time given. Austin the GOAT was at his peak of popularity at this point, the crowd reactions are incredible. Standard title match with a non finish. 

** 1/2

I've just downloaded:

- TLC 2012 - The Shield vs. Team Hell No & Ryback
-TLC III - (WWE Smackdown 5/24/01) (Thanks @Brock) 
-Big Show vs British Bulldog vs Mankind vs Kane vs Triple H vsThe Rock - Unforgiven 99 (Thanks again @Brock)
-Kurt Angle vs The Rock - No Way Out 2001 @Brock da GAWD)
-Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle (Summerslam 2001) (Oh Yes!!!! Love this match, great upload @Brock)
- Unforgiven 2002 - Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero
- WWE Raw Febuary 11, 2008 - Shawn Michaels vs. Jeff Hardy
- Cyber Sunday 2008 - Matt Hardy vs. Evan Bourne
- Raw March 20, 2000 - Triple H vs. Big Show vs. The Rock
- Smackdown May 4, 2000 - The Rock & Earl Hebner vs. Triple H, X-Pac & Road Dogg

thatll do for now


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> And I want to watch this Misawa vs Williams match to see how godly Misawa looks up next to godly Kawada aka just about every Kawada performance. Plus, comparison to the '97 Williams match that I would give every snowflake in existence to.


Uploaded as i couldn't see it online:

*Mitsuharu Misawa vs Steve Williams (AJ 09.03.1993)*


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Summer salamualaikum.

Does anybody know more about the Kawada/Williams beef? Apparently Kawada wasn't exactly the most friendly of fellows.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Summer salamualaikum.
> 
> Does anybody know more about the Kawada/Williams beef? Apparently Kawada wasn't exactly the most friendly of fellows.


From bits of what ive read, Kawada was always not too fond of 'foreigners' after not having a great experience whilst he was in Canada with Stampede, and was basically treated like shit away from Japan. So when they came over to Japan, he was wary of them.

Not too sure if it was more personal with Williams though TBH.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

He had a general disdain for gaijins (and Misawa). From what was posted elsewhere, part of it stems from how he was treated during his tenure in N. America.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Can't say I hold it against him. Now the heat w/Misawa, well, that's a different story. Bound to happen in the biz.

Cheers yet again, Brock. You hero. (Y)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Why couldn't we see AJPW Dr. Death in America? I'll never understand how the same guy that had those great matches in Japan could also produce some of the most boring stuff imaginable.





Yeah1993 said:


> You didn't like him in UWF?





funnyfaces1 said:


> The Dr. Death that I saw in Mid South was different from what he was in Japan. Watts portrayed Williams more so as a young college athlete that is trying to figure out how to succeed in the world of professional wrestling. That gimmick worked well for him, but because it was so early in Williams' career, he didn't have very many standout matches or performances, and he was still trying to figure out what style to employ in the ring. I don't think he was bad in UWF. It's just that it wasn't Japan Dr. Death.


I could be wrong, but I think there is a relatively simple 2 part answer for this. One, when Doc was wrestling in Japan, he didn't have to worry about being a baby face, he could just be Steve Williams: Ass Kicker Extroidinaire. The other thing is the talent in his opponents. Now, don't get me wrong, Doc wrestled some really good wrestlers in UWF and WCW, but he wasn't wrestling Kenta fucking Kobashi, Mitsuhara Misawa, Akira Taue, or Toshiaki Kawada. Those are 4 of the greatest wrestlers the world has ever seen, playing sympathetic baby faces to Doc's ass kicking foreigner (excepting Kawada who was the surly ass kicking baby face who was equally loved by crowds just in a different way ). When Doc was tagging with Gordy and wrestling the Steiners in WCW, he was free to just be Dr. Death in Japan and as a result those matches were unbelievable. When he was playing the amateur athlete baby face in UWF he couldn't use the same mannerisms, couldn't just be himself, because he had to smile and play to the crowd, have his opponents get heat on him instead of the other way around, and make firey come backs instead of selling for his opponents firey comebacks and precisely timing his cut off spots. Williams is not a smiling baby face, he's the silent, brooding, furrowed brow bad ass who just wants to compete and show his superiority through athletics. Not exactly baby face material for the 1980's in the USA, although he'd be fantastic for modern WWE.

Here's the thing, I still think Doc was really, really, good from the Mid-South/UWF stuff I've seen. I've seen some excellent matches against Big Bubba, Gordy, etc. But I'm not going to lie to you and say he was the same guy as he was in AJPW during the 1990's. Steve Williams in AJPW is one of the, I don't know, let's say top 30 wrestlers I've ever seen, easily. He was able to play to his strengths and be himself against a veritable smorgasbord of world class talent. Take away opponents like Kobashi, Kawada, and Misawa, guys who have a strong case for top 10 all time status, replace them with Big Bubba, who was an awesome talent but nowhere near as good as those AJPW boys, and put baby face handcuffs on Doc, and it's no wonder he was so much less impressive in the states when compared with what he did in Japan.

Just my opinion, feel free to disagree if you want.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't think the opponent matters. I mean it does for match quality - Johnny Ace didn't have matches anywhere near as good anywhere as he did in All Japan. There's just a difference between good match and good performance. Johnny Ace in AJ still wasn't really all that good. Replace him in the match with anybody halfway not awful and it would have been the same. Williams wasn't as good as a Stan Hansen, but he wasn't replaceable. Nobody said he was but I'm comparing him to Johnny Ace. Who throughout the 96 yearbook I thought absolutely was. I think I saw one match that I was actually glad he was in. Should have been Williams and the Patriot.

I haven't really seen any boring Williams but I think the UWF WIlliams I've seen has all been on "best of" things so yeah, the aim is to get the good stuff and leave the rest out. It's why I like the 'youtube random whatever' way of watching of wrestling, I like getting a more complete picture.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

When I think of Johnny Ace outside of Japan I only tend to leap towards the good match he had vs Mean Mark Calaway in 1990. Certain this was his peak while working in America.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I don't think the opponent matters. I mean it does for match quality - Johnny Ace didn't have matches anywhere near as good anywhere as he did in All Japan. There's just a difference between good match and good performance. Johnny Ace in AJ still wasn't really all that good. Replace him in the match with anybody halfway not awful and it would have been the same. Williams wasn't as good as a Stan Hansen, but he wasn't replaceable. Nobody said he was but I'm comparing him to Johnny Ace. Who throughout the 96 yearbook I thought absolutely was. I think I saw one match that I was actually glad he was in. Should have been Williams and the Patriot.
> 
> I haven't really seen any boring Williams but I think the UWF WIlliams I've seen has all been on "best of" things so yeah, the aim is to get the good stuff and leave the rest out. It's why I like the 'youtube random whatever' way of watching of wrestling, I like getting a more complete picture.



I think the opponent does matter to a certain extent. The type of performance elicited from facing a baby face like Kenta Kobashi in Japan vs the type of performance elicited from facing a heel like Terry Gordy in Oklahoma is going to differ drastically. Some guys, well most guys actually, their level of performance is strongly dictated by whether they are wrestling as either a heel or a face, and how much their opponent gives them. 

For me, Steve Austin as a heel is one of the best ever, especially when he would face someone like Bret, Benoit, Angle, or Steamboat when they made his job a lot easier. But switch Austin to baby face, and have him wrestle someone like The Undertaker, and his performance is going to suffer because that's not what he's most comfortable doing, or what he's best at. I'm not saying his effort would change, just the quality of what he's doing in the ring. That's why guys like Eddie, Terry, and Flair were so special, because it really didn't matter they were just as good no matter what role they were playing.

Steve Williams I think is like Steve Austin in that regard. Let him be the foreign "bad guy", to the extent that anyone was really a heel during that era, that he's comfortable being and put him with a baby face who is super over and super talented, who will bring the best out of him, and his performance will likewise be at its best.

This is all just conjecture, I'm not a pro wrestler I don't know for sure either way, it just seems like who your opponent is will partially dictate how good your performance is. If you are Steve Austin, how good you look wrestling a heel Kane when you are a baby face is not going to be as good as you look as a heel wrestling Chris Benoit. I'm not just talking about the quality of the match, I'm saying how good your individual performance is. When your best is being the bad ass, brawling, no good piece of shit heel in the ring, controlling the tempo and overall pacing of the match, and you instead have to try and be a good guy facing a big monster and have to sell for most of the match instead of kicking the shit out of someone, the level of your performance has to change, right? You can try as hard as you can and give it your all and it won't matter, as Steve Austin you just aren't going to look as good selling for Kane as you are kicking the shit out of Benoit.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

> If you are Steve Austin, how good you look wrestling a heel Kane when you are a baby face is not going to be as good as you look as a heel wrestling Chris Benoit. I'm not just talking about the quality of the match, I'm saying how good your individual performance is. When your best is being the bad ass, brawling, no good piece of shit heel in the ring, controlling the tempo and overall pacing of the match, and you instead have to try and be a good guy facing a big monster and have to sell for most of the match instead of kicking the shit out of someone, the level of your performance has to change, right? You can try as hard as you can and give it your all and it won't matter, as Steve Austin you just aren't going to look as good selling for Kane as you are kicking the shit out of Benoit.


I think that has more do with being babyface or heel (or character/gimmick in general) than it does opponent. I think Austin's a better heel, too. But heel Austin against babyface Benoit OR babyface Kane, I think Austin could absolutely look better against Kane than against Benoit. Regal in the four minute match with Evan Bourne in 2010 I thought looked better than Regal in one or two of the 2005 matches Benoit. Rey against Mike Knox was probably better than Rey against Tajiri or Brock Lesnar. They were playing the same role in the respective matches. 

I said before I thought Misawa was mind-blowing to me in that Williams match for some reason, and I didn't think Taue in the 96 match was as good. I didn't think Williams was as good as Misawa either, in either match. But Taue/Williams is a lot better than Misawa/Williams. A lot, a lot. 

A wrestler can make a match look bad single handily, no question. I don't think a wrestler can make _another wrestler_ look bad (kayfabe yeah but I don't mean that) unless they're purposely trying to do it, maybe. There's a Kawada/Fujiwara from 2001 which should have been the greatest match ever, but sucked. Fujiwara was no selling and sucking all over the place. Kawada was fine; he was regular good Kawada. The match suffered because apparently the aliens in Space Jam stole all of Fujiwara's talent for that one night, but Kawada on his own was completely good. I don't hold that match against him at all. Fujiwara was so sucky in that that the first theory somebody came up with was that Kawada tried to fuck Fujiwara's wife. :lmao So we entertain that notion for one second - Fujiwara IS trying to make Kawada look bad, but couldn't. 

On the flip side, a wrestler can obviously single handily make a match look good. I'll use Fujiwara again. He had a bunch of great matches with Super Tiger, and I thought Super Tiger was really very good in a few of them, but Fujiwara was maybe the greatest wrestler of all time in the mid 80s. Still, I never thought Tiger was doing anything less than being an awesome opponent. Then there was this one match. 9/11/85, I think. I thought Fujiwara was fucking unreal. I have allllllways thought "it takes two to have a great match" was honestly crap. Yes - I think it USUALLY takes two (or more), but the idea that no great match ever can be accredited to one wrestler and not the other(s)....nah. Too broad. Too many carryjobs. No way. BUT. I'd always thought it'd take two have a real "classic." Like, classic as in, "one of the best matches I've ever seen". That match alone changed my perception. Fujiwara could have faced somebody in their debut match and it still would have been a classic. Tiger did...honestly.....nothing. I think I actually forgot he was in the match while I was watching it. Fujiwara - who at the time may have been legit the greatest wrestler who will ever live - made the match enitrely on his own. But, being in the ring with him did nothing to make Super Tiger look good in that single match.

Can one wrestler make another wrestler look GOOD, though? Yes...? I think? I guess I'll give you that one? OK, there are times where you see a guy, he isn't all that good, then feuds with somebody experienced, and gets better as a result, OK, yeah, that's true. Then there's a better wrestler taking the inferior wrestler and hiding all of his weaknesses. Take Cesaro/Kingston from a couple years ago. For what he did - I don't think Kofi was any better in it than he normally is/was, but Cesaro didn't allow Kofi to do the shit he is really, really not good at. Kofi's a fine seller, I guess, and can ragdoll, so Cesaro stuck to that. No, OK, that's totally understandable. I still think there's a weird grey line, because Cesaro choosing to go that direction doesn't mean Kofi will sell well, but no, yeah, I agree with that.

If what you're saying is that some wrestlers match up with other wrestlers, and blend together because they play off of each other's strengths/styles the best, then yeah, I agree. Like Dustin Rhodes and Vader mesh perfectly. Dustin Rhodes and Steve Austin mesh really well, but not AS well. I just don't think it really affects individual performances. I am going to sorely regret bringing up this match again but a lot of people were saying that "Reigns didn't give Bryan much to work with" at February's PPV and I didn't understand that all. What does that mean? Bryan couldn't have possibly been good because his opponent wasn't good? It's not up to Reigns to do that. It's not up to Bryan to do that for Reigns. You're either good in a match or you aren't. I didn't think he was. Cesaro may have targeted the leg whole match but it was up to Kofi to sell it. In the Kawada/Fujiwara I mentioned above Fujiwara gave Kawada NOTHING to work with, so it wasn't a good match, but a good Kawada performance, I thought.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Smackdown's main event was FANTASTIC this week. Reigns & Ambrose vs. Rollins & Harper. All three Shield guys being in the same ring, a crowd that went BONKERS towards the end, and a legitimately surprising finish. Great match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> If what you're saying is that some wrestlers match up with other wrestlers, and blend together because they play off of each other's strengths/styles the best, then yeah, I agree. Like Dustin Rhodes and Vader mesh perfectly. Dustin Rhodes and Steve Austin mesh really well, but not AS well. I just don't think it really affects individual performances.


Just to be clear before I respond, I'm not arguing with you or saying I think you are wrong, not even in the slightest, I just enjoy discussing this kind of nuanced crap every once in a while.

What I quoted from you is the gist of what I was saying, while combining it with whether the wrestler is better as a face or heel. Vader and Dustin had tremendous chemistry, but would it have been the same if Vader was the baby face and Dustin was the heel? Highly unlikely. Thats kinda what I was getting at with Williams, imagine if Vader spent part of his time wrestling as a heel in Japan against Misawa, Kobashi, Kawada, etc. and then spent the rest of his time as a baby face wrestling against Sid, British Bulldog, Bossman, etc. We'd probably be saying the same thing about him, and to me Vader is as good as it gets as a wrestler. 

You said that you think Austin's performance as a heel against Kane could be just as good if not better than Austin as a heel vs Benoit, and that's where will just have to agree to disagree. That's in the realm of opinion, because right now sitting here I can't imagine a scenario where Austin could be as good as he was in that SD! match against Benoit against Kane. He wouldn't be able to toss Kane around like a sack of shit, trade submissions, and just flat out dominate like he did against the smaller Benoit. That's why I enjoyed Austins heel work in 01' so much, he was able to just dominate large portions of the match while always keeping it interesting, exciting, and above all not sacrificing common sense and good selling. 

Lastly, you really enjoyed Regal's work against Bourne MORE than when he wrestled Benoit in those fantastic matches between 05'-06'? Huh. Im guessing you just enjoyed Regal being a full blown twat, stomping, choking, and cheating at every turn as opposed to the realistic athletic contest style he worked with Benoit? Nothing wrong with that, preference is preference. I will agree that Regal on his own is much more entertaining when he chooses to really accentuate the heelish tendencies of his character in matches, but I also deeply appreciate the work he and Benoit where able to create in the ring, the matches were infinitely better than the sum of their parts iMO. You wouldn't watch their No Mercy 06' match and say "Damn that Regal was really something in that match, what an incredible performance!" It was what they were able to do when they combined their efforts to produce some of the most realistic and exciting pro wrestling matches I've personally ever seen. You could show someone one of their matches who had never heard of pro wrestling and have them convinced it was 100% legitimate, and that's why they were unique and special for their time.

I think we can at least agree that what makes a great performance is a wrestler embodying his character in the best of ways, having excellent timing in when he chooses to things and when to transition into different sections of the match, his selling, the moves he chooses to do making sense, and lastly and probably least important is how good the moves he does look, aka is he sloppy as hell or snug as a bug. If that's what a great performance is composed of, I'd say a lot if not all of that can be aided immensely by his opponent. As you pointed out with Fujiwara, one wrestlers performance can easily tank a match but it shouldnt take away from how well his opponent performs. In theory you are right, but there are always instances where one wrestler is so bad that his opponent can't make heads or tails of the situation and is left struggling for his life to just keep the match afloat instead of focusing on his own work. For that I give you exhibit A: Angle vs Eddie at SS 04'. Eddie could not do jack shit with Angle that match, there was just no way it was going to be possible for Eddie to have a good performance with Angle acting like a coked out moron. Matches like that are few and far between thankfully, but they DO happen. Just as the opposite happens, like when Angle wrestled Austin and Austin brought the absolute best performance possible out of Angle just about every single time performances Angle was never able to achieve when facing anyone else throughout the rest of his career.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I downloaded the overnight:

The Wrestling Classic
Wrestlemania 1
Wrestlemania 2
The Big Event
Summerslam 1992
Survivor Series 1992
Wrestlemania 10


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Summerslam 1992 and Wrestlemania 10 are great, but you've already seen that a million times I assume. I like Survivor Series 1992, but the people here don't really like the main event of that show. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it is a long main event that is very mat-based and meant for big fans of both Bret and Shawn.

What you should do instead is catch the recent Lucha Underground episode. Main event of that show is a MOTYC.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lucha Underground is terrible though.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You are the only person I've seen that has said a single negative thing about Lucha Underground. Not even the pretentious nutjobs at PWO dislike it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I just call a spade a spade. WSX got shit, but doing it w/arm drags and less weapons & I honestly don't see a difference.

It's nothing but spots w/o substance. Which is fine for a TV show. Which it is.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Seconded the Smackdown main event being really good. Has a chance to beat everything on the PPV tbh lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wouldn't doubt it, looks great. Love Harper being in the mix w/ex-Shield guys again. No doubt the chemistry there has already proven to be amazing. That and SD has had its share of quality tag matches on the year as it is.

Did anyone else watch the Danielson, Reigns, & Dolph vs Show, Sheamus & Barrett six man from a few weeks ago? Great stuff. Barrett didn't do much, but the other 5 were damn fun and made it pop.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

*Re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues &amp; Bobby Eaton*

If you're watching LU for great wrestling, then it's shit. I can also see its style not appealing to everyone. Telenovella lucha is its own beast.

Even then it does a lot that it should be commended on. Especially noting how progressive it can be in its thought process (execution aside). The mantanza/master/mystery lady parts are making me facepalm, though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's basically my point. As a show, I'm fine w/it. But as "actual wrestling" it's pantha poo doo. I could have called it a modern day WMAC Masters, w/o the kiddy moral agenda, tbhayley.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I just call a spade a spade. WSX got shit, but doing it w/arm drags and less weapons & I honestly don't see a difference.
> 
> It's nothing but spots w/o substance. Which is fine for a TV show. Which it is.


It's that, combined with the horrific commentary and a cut from any chin lock/non-flashy or false-finish submission. Seriously, the cutting of matches, and the lack of any patience to build a full match are the biggest issues. Fenix is dropping people on their head 60 seconds into a 6-7minute match, because they're trying to cram three other matches, an in-ring promo, backstage segment, and two vignettes into 44 minutes of programming. ADD wrestling. I haven't watched since the ladder match episode. 

--

Gonna jump in w/RW & yeah - there's definitely an element of where a wrestler feels the most comfortable (babyface/heel), and an element of certain wrestlers having/not having chemistry, and of course both guys being able to hold up their end of the stick. Most guys have a couple names they feel like they always can have a great one with. They also usually have a couple names they don't work well with either. Austin always mentions Undertaker as that guy for him. For DD, some guys really thrive in Japan. That wrestling is treated more as an athletic competition and the lifestyle/respect given to them, as well as the physicality fits more in line with some guys vision of the business. Especially guys like Williams, who was a lot more steak than sizzle.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Exactly why it feels like WSX to me. But truth be told, as I've stated plenty, it isn't a pro wrestling show. So working that implied flashy style & editing out anything that isn't such doesn't surprise me once I got a gist of how it operates. Although when it originally begin, I was led to believe it was a new organization. How wrong I was.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

There's been like 5-10 quality tag matches from Smackdown this year that have made my WWE 2015 list thus far. I'm not even sure if I could pick a "best" one. They usually all go down the same way, but they always work.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's WWE's ideal formula. Although, it seems impossible for it to click unless it is on SD these days. That's the difference between now & 2013, unfortunately.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Is 5/12/2011 the McIntyre vs. Masters match everybody loved so much at the time? Just found it on YouTube, probably gonna check it out later.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Hello all,

how are we? it's 3am here but I'm intending to stay awake until 2pm for a team I support playing in a sport. 

a couple of cards im considering watching, have no idea about this one



> Wrestling Classic Tournament First Round Match
> Adrian Adonis (w/Jimmy Hart) vs. Corporal Kirchner
> Wrestling Classic Tournament First Round Match
> Nikolai Volkoff vs. The Dynamite Kid
> ...


the wrestling classic



> Dark Match
> Crush vs. Repo Man
> Tag Team Match
> High Energy (Koko B. Ware & Owen Hart) vs. The Headshrinkers (Fatu & Samu) (w/Afa)
> ...


survivor series 1992. i have no recollection of seeing this one. that tag match interests me a whiole lot, so do a few other matches. hart/hbk, elimination tag, takers match, midcard looks good too


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Wrestling Classic is awful. Pure awful. Avoid it.

SS 92 is shit. Maybe that tag match is good (Perfect & Savage/Flair & Hall) but I don't remember anything about it.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i also have this



> The Bushwhackers (Bushwhacker Butch and Bushwhacker Luke) and Jim Duggan defeated The Nasty Boys (Brian Knobbs and Jerry Sags) (with Jimmy Hart) and The Mountie	Six-man tag team match	12:33
> 2D	Papa Shango defeated Tito Santana	Singles match	06:00
> 3	The Legion of Doom (Hawk and Animal) (with Paul Ellering) defeated Money Inc. (Ted DiBiase and Irwin R. Schyster) (with Jimmy Hart)	Tag team match	15:10
> 4	Nailz defeated Virgil	Singles match	03:55
> ...


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Bruce L said:


> Is 5/12/2011 the McIntyre vs. Masters match everybody loved so much at the time? Just found it on YouTube, probably gonna check it out later.


Generally considered their best match, yeah.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Cool; thanks. Stay tuned for review.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So I got fibre broadband the other day. My upload speed is around 18mb. I tested it by uploading one of the parts to my Big Cal Books WM 31 video. Each part too 8 hours on my old connection. Took 12 minutes now :lmao.

Anyway, given a super duper upload speed, I might occasionally upload a few things here and there .

Feel like sitting back and just watching something fun tonight rather than writing a ramble (still not finished that 08 one yet lol). Might go with SummerSlam 2011.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Survivor Series '92 is shit. The tag match is disappointing and Bret/Shawn is weak. Best match was probably the High Energy tag.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

how about summerslam 1992?

or wrestlemania 10


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Wrestlemania 10 gets my vote. The Bret/Owen & HBK/Razor duo outdoes the Bret/Bulldog & Warrior/Savage one.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

You first world people and your internets. I don't even have fibre in my breakfast.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

playlist i put together to watch 



Spoiler: Playlist



Play all Remove watched
Add videos


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by MonsoonClassic
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----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Good luck getting through that haha. Never thought of making a playlist, would make things a hell of a lot easier I guess. Skimming through that playlist there's definitely a few duds in there but the majority is atleast worth watching (that I'm aware of, obviously not seen everything on there)

Test vs. Tajiri being a 10 minute video interests me so much. Scott Steiner vs. Test vs. Goldberg interests me also, but for all the wrong reasons :lol


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

What's Regal/Kidman like?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bloody hell Kenny, couldn't you have spoiler boxed that lol.  Scrolling on my phone makes it seem like War and Peace.

----------------------------------

http://segundacaida.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/best-of-1980s-project-reviews-and.html

Found this Top 30 lists of each of the promotions that DVDVR did; AWA/AJPW/NJPW/WCCW/Memphis/Mid South

Might come in handy for some people:



Spoiler: match list



Other Japan Results -Top 30
Statistics

1. Nobuhiko Takada vs Akira Maeda UWF 11/10/88
2. Yoshiaki Fujiwara vs Super Tiger UWF 12/5/84
3. Nobuhiko Takada vs Bob Backlund UWF 12/22/88
4. Riki Choshu vs Genichiro Tenryu JPW 2/21/85
5. Yoshiaki Fujiwara vs Super Tiger UWF 7/17/85
6. Masakatsu Funaki vs Tatsuo Nakano UWF 7/24/89
7. Super Tiger vs Yoshiaki Fujiwara UWF 9/7/84
8. Yoshiaki Fujiwara vs Kazuo Yamazaki UWF 1/7/85
9. Yoshiaki Fujiwara vs Super Tiger UWF 9/11/85
10. Kazuo Yamazaki vs Nobuhiko Takada UWF 8/13/88
11. Yoshiaki Fujiwara vs Kazuo Yamazaki UWF 7/24/89
12. Super Tiger/Nobuhiko Takada vs Akira Maeda/Yoshiaki Fujiwara UWF 7/23/84
13. Akira Maeda vs Kazuo Yamazaki UWF 5/12/88
14. Atsushi Onita vs Masashi Aoyagi FMW 10/6/89
15. Kazuo Yamazaki vs Nobuhiko Takada UWF 9/11/85
16. Yoshiaki Fujiwara vs Akira Maeda UWF 3/02/85
17. Yoshiaki Fujiwara vs Nobuhiko Takada UWF 10/22/84
18. Nobuhiko Takada vs Yoshiaki Fujiwara UWF 10/25/89
19. Yoji Anjoh vs Masakatsu Funaki UWF 6/14/89
20. Super Tiger vs Akira Maeda UWF 9/11/84
21. Super Tiger vs Nobuhiko Takada UWF 9/6/85
22. Akira Maeda vs Kazuo Yamazaki UWF 5/21/89
23. Kazuo Yamazaki vs Nobuhiko Takada UWF 5/4/89
24. Bob Backlund vs Masakatsu Funaki UWF 5/21/89
25. Atsushi Onita vs Masashi Aoyagi UKIKM 6/2/89
26. El Gran Hamada vs Perro Aguayo UWF 4/11/84
27. Nobuhiko Takada vs Akira Maeda UWF 1/10/89
28. Kazuo Yamazaki vs Nobuhiko Takada UWF 12/5/84
29. Nobuhiko Takada vs Yoshiaki Fujiwara UWF 7/8/85
30. Super Tiger vs Yoshiaki Fujiwara UWF 6/24/85

Mid South Results -Top 30
Statistics

1. Ted DiBiase vs. Hacksaw Duggan (No DQ, Loser Leaves Town, Coal Miner's Glove,Tuxedo, Cage match) 3/22/85 
2. Dick Murdoch vs. Barry Windham 7/11/87 
3. Ted DiBiase vs. Ric Flair 11/6/85 
4. Hacksaw Duggan vs. Buzz Sawyer 11/11/85 
5. Mr. Olympia vs. Chavo Guerrero 6/24/83 
6. Butch Reed vs. Dick Murdoch 9/22/85 
7. Ted DiBiase vs. Jim Duggan (No DQ) 3/8/85 
8. Magnum T.A. vs. Ted DiBiase (No DQ, Tulsa) 5/27/84 
9. Mr. Wrestling II & Magnum T.A. vs. Butch Reed & Jim Neidhart (Cage Match) 12/25/83 
10. Junkyard Dog & Mr. Olympia vs. Ted DiBiase & Matt Borne (Loser Leaves Town) 10/27/82 
11. Butch Reed vs. Dick Murdoch 10/14/85 
12. Chris Adams vs. Terry Taylor 5/3/87 
13. Rock N Roll Express & Hacksaw Duggan vs. Midnight Express & Ernie Ladd 6/8/84 
14. Jake Roberts vs. Ric Flair 11/24/85 
15. Ted DiBiase vs. Dick Murdoch (No DQ) 12/31/85 
16. Terry Taylor vs. Ric Flair 6/1/85 
17. Terry Gordy vs. Dr. Death 6/22/86 
18. Magnum T.A. vs. Ted DiBiase 7/6/84 
19. Ted DiBiase vs. Dick Murdoch 12/27/85 
20. Ric Flair vs. Wahoo McDaniel 7/12/85 
21. Dick Murdoch vs. Dr. Death 6/13/87 
22. Ted DiBiase vs. Hacksaw Duggan (Street Fight) 7/29/83
23. Magnum T.A. vs. Ted DiBiase (No DQ, OKC) 5/27/84 
24. Ric Flair vs. Butch Reed 8/10/85 
25. Ric Flair vs. Terry Taylor 4/28/85 
26. The Fabulous Ones vs. Chavo & Hector Guerrero (Mexican Death Match) 1/24/86 
27. Ric Flair vs. Terry Taylor 5/3/85 
28. Dick Slater vs. Jake Roberts (No DQ, Dark Journey In A Cage) 2/28/86
29. The Fantastics vs. Chavo & Hector Guerrero 10/12/84 
30. Buzz Sawyer vs. Jim Duggan (Dog Collar Match) 12/27/85 

Memphis Results -Top 30
Statistics

1. Jerry Lawler vs. Bill Dundee (Loser Leaves Town) 6/6/83
2. Jerry Lawler vs. Bill Dundee (No DQ, Loser Leaves Town) 12/30/85
3. Jerry Lawler vs. Terry Funk (No DQ) 3/23/81
4. Jerry Lawler vs. Dutch Mantell (Barbed Wire Match) 3/29/82
5. Jerry Lawler vs. Dutch Mantell (No DQ) 3/22/82
6. Jerry Lawler vs. Austin Idol (Hair vs. Hair, Steel Cage Match) 4/27/87
7. Jerry Lawler vs. Bill Dundee (No DQ, Loser Leaves Town) 7/14/86
8. Koko Ware vs. Ric Flair 11/18/85
9. Jerry Lawler vs. Bam Bam Bigelow (Texas Death) 9/7/86
10. Jerry Lawler vs. Randy Savage (Loser Leaves Town) 6/3/85
11. Jerry Lawler vs. Terry Funk (Empty Arena) 4/6/81
12. Jerry Lawler & Dutch Mantel vs. Bill Dundee & Buddy Landel 3/10/86
13. Jerry Lawler vs. Nick Bockwinkel (No DQ) 11/8/82
14. Tommy Rich & Eddie Gilbert vs. Pretty Young Things (Falls Count Anywhere) 5/18/84
15. Jerry Lawler vs. Ric Flair 8/14/82
16. Jerry Lawler vs. Nick Bockwinkel 10/18/82
17. Jerry Lawler vs. Dutch Mantell (Loser Leaves Town) 3/27/82
18. Jerry Lawler & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Austin Idol & Tommy Rich (Texas Death Match) 3/23/87
19. Jerry Lawler & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Austin Idol & Tommy Rich (Double Jeopardy Match) 3/16/87
20. Fabulous Ones vs. The Moondogs (Stretcher Match) 5/2/83
21. Jerry Lawler vs. Curt Hennig (Title vs. Retirement) 5/9/88
22. Bobby Eaton & Sweet Brown Sugar vs. Dutch Mantell & King Cobra 7/19/82
23. Jerry Lawler vs. Nick Bockwinkel 10/25/82
24. Jerry Lawler vs. Rick Martel (Nashville) 10/12/85 
25. Ricky Morton & Eddie Gilbert vs. Masa Fuchi & Atsushi Onita (Tupelo Concession Stand Brawl) 9/4/81
26. Bill Dundee vs. Sweet Brown Sugar (2/3 falls, Scaffold Match) 6/21/82
27. Ronnie Garvin vs. Randy Savage (Cage Match) ICW 1982/83
28. Jerry Lawler & Randy Savage vs. King Kong Bundy & Rick Rude 9/10/84
29. Fabulous Ones vs. The Sheepherders (Cage Match) 8/6/85
30. Jerry Lawler vs. Crusher Blackwell 5/4/81

New Japan Results -Top 30
Statistics

1. 5-on-5 Gauntlet Challenge 4/19/84
2. Andre the Giant vs. Stan Hansen 9/23/81
3. Tatsumi Fujinami, Keiichi Yamada, Shiro Koshinaka, Yoshiaki Fujiwara & Kengo Kimura vs. Hiro Saito, Kuniaki Kobayashi, Super Strong Machine, Masa Saito & Riki Choshu 9/12/88
4. Antonio Inoki, Tatsumi Fujinami, Kengo Kimura, Umanosuke Ueda & Kantaro Hoshino vs. Akira Maeda, Yoshiaki Fujiwara, Osamu Kido, Nobuhiko Takada & Kazuo Yamazaki 3/26/86
5. Riki Choshu vs. Yoshiaki Fujiwara 6/9/87
6. Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Akira Maeda 6/12/86
7. Jushin Liger vs. Naoki Sano 8/10/89
8. 5-on-5 Challenge 5/1/86
9. Andre the Giant vs. Killer Khan 4/1/82
10. Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Riki Choshu 4/3/83
11. Inoki/Fujiwara/Sakaguchi/Hoshino/Mutoh vs. Fujinami/Choshu/Maeda/Kimura/Super Strong Machine 8/19/87
12. Riki Choshu & Masa Saito vs. George Takano & Super Strong Machine 3/16/89
13. Antonio Inoki vs. Yoshiaki Fujiwara 2/6/86
14. Tatsumi Fujinami, Nobuhiko Takada, Riki Choshu, Akira Maeda & Super Strong Machine vs. Antonio Inoki, Dick Murdoch, Yoshiaki Fujiwara, Masa Saito & Seiji Sakaguchi 9/17/87
15. Shinya Hashimoto vs. Vader 4/24/89
16. Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Riki Choshu 8/4/83
17. Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Riki Choshu 4/21/83
18. Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Kengo Kimura 1/2/87
19. Riki Choshu vs. Big Van Vader 6/27/89
20. Tatsumi Fujinami & Antonio Inoki vs. Dick Murdoch & Adrian Adonis 12/7/84
21. Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Riki Choshu 7/7/83
22. Antonio Inoki vs. Masa Saito 4/27/87
23. Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Dynamite Kid 2/5/80
24. Akira Maeda vs. Yoshiaki Fujiwara 2/5/86
25. Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Vader 4/24/89
26. Antonio Inoki vs. Dick Murdoch 6/19/86
27. Shinya Hashimoto vs. Victor Zangiev 4/24/89
28. Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Kengo Kimura 9/25/80
29. Akira Maeda vs. Yoshiaki Fujiwara 1/10/86
30. Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Riki Choshu 6/24/88

World Class Results - Top 30
Statistics

1. Terry Gordy vs. Killer Khan (Texas Death Match; Special Guest Referee, Kerry Von Erich) 11/22/84
2. The Fabulous Freebirds vs. The Von Erichs 7/4/83
3. Ric Flair vs. Kerry Von Erich (2/3 falls) 8/15/82
4. Ric Flair vs. Kerry Von Erich (Cage Match) 12/25/82
5. Harley Race vs. Kevin Von Erich 6/17/83
6. Gino Hernandez & Chris Adams vs. Kerry & Kevin Von Erich (Hair vs. Hair Match) 10/6/85
7. Kerry Von Erich vs. Michael Hayes (Loser Leaves Town Cage Match) 11/24/83
8. Ric Flair vs. Kevin Von Erich 4/1/83
9. Terry Gordy & Buddy Roberts vs. Kerry & Kevin Von Erich (Badstreet Match) 2/12/88
10. Jimmy Garvin & Terry Gordy vs. David & Kevin Von Erich (2/3 Falls) 8/15/83
11. Ric Flair vs. Chris Adams 2/3/84
12. The Fabulous Freebirds & Jimmy Garvin vs. The Von Erichs & Iceman King Parsons (Elimination Match) 5/27/83
13. Kevin Von Erich vs. Ric Flair 5/5/85
14. Terry Gordy vs. Kerry Von Erich (World Title Match) 5/7/84
15. Gino Hernandez, Chris Adams & Jake the Snake vs. The Von Erichs 12/31/84
16. Ric Flair vs. David Von Erich 10/11/82
17. The Fabulous Freebirds vs. The Von Erichs (Lumberjack Match) 2/18/83
18. The Fantastics vs. Midnight Express 1/11/85
19 .The Fabulous Freebirds vs. The Von Erichs 9/5/83
20. The Fantastics vs. Midnight Express 12/25/84
21. The Fabulous Freebirds vs. The Von Erichs (Bunkhouse Elimination Cage Match) 9/3/84
22. Abdullah the Butcher vs. Bruiser Brody 8/4/86
23. Jimmy Garvin vs. Chris Adams (Cage Match) 1/30/84
24. Ric Flair vs. Terry Gordy 2/4/83
25. Jimmy Garvin vs. Kevin Von Erich 7/18/83
26. Gino Hernandez & Chris Adams vs. Kerry & Kevin Von Erich (Lumberjack Match) 2/22/85
27. Eric Embry vs. Jerry Lawler 9/8/89
28. Ric Flair vs. Kerry Von Erich 5/11/84
29. Chris Adams vs. Kevin Von Erich (No DQ) 9/2/85
30. The Fabulous Freebirds vs. The Von Erichs (Badstreet Match) 7/4/84

All Japan Results - Top 30

1. Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Genichiro Tenryu (6/5/89)
2. Genichiro Tenryu & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Stan Hansen & Terry Gordy (12/16/88)
3. Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Riki Choshu Yoshiaki Yatsu (1/28/86)
4. Jumbo Tsuruta & Yoshiaki Yatsu vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Stan Hansen (12/6/89)
5. Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Ric Flair (6/8/83)
6. Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Kerry Von Erich (2/3 Falls) (5/22/84)
7. Giant Baba & Rusher Kimura vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Stan Hansen (11/29/89)
8. Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Genichiro Tenryu (8/31/87)
9. Riki Choshu vs. Killer Khan (7/31/86)
10. Terry Funk vs. Stan Hansen (4/14/83)
11. Toshiaki Kawada & Ricky Fuyuki vs. Dan Kroffat & Doug Furnas (6/5/89)
12. Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Genichiro Tenryu (10/11/89)
13. Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Genichiro Tenryu (10/28/88)
14. Jumbo Tsuruta & Yoshiaki Yatsu vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Toshiaki Kawada (2/26/89 TV)
15. Billy Robinson vs. Nick Bockwinkel (12/11/80)
16. Jumbo Tsuruta & Kenta Kobashi vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Stan Hansen (7/15/89)
17. Dory and Terry Funk vs. Stan Hansen & Terry Gordy (8/31/83)
18. Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Stan Hansen (10/21/86)
19. Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Riki Choshu & Yoshiaki Yatsu (2/5/86)
20. Bruiser Brody & Jimmy Snuka vs. Dory and Terry Funk (12/13/81)
21. Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Ric Flair (6/8/82)
22. Toshiaki Kawada & Ricky Fuyuki vs. Shunji Takano & Shinichi Nakano (7/19/88)
23. Genichiro Tenryu & Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Killer Khan & Riki Choshu (8/2/85)
24. Genichiro Tenryu vs. Stan Hansen (3/27/88)
25. Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Tiger Mask (3/9/88)
26. Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Riki Choshu & Yoshiaki Yatsu (1/24/87)
27. Genichiro Tenryu vs. Stan Hansen (7/27/88)
28. Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Dick Slater (5/1/80)
29. Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Riki Choshu & Yoshiaki Yatsu (2/5/87)
30. Masa Fuchi vs. Mitsuo Momota (3/29/89)

AWA Results - Top 30

1. Nick Bockwinkel vs. Curt Hennig (11/21/86)
2. Buddy Rose & Doug Somers vs. Midnight Rockers (8/30/86)
3. Buddy Rose & Doug Somers vs. Midnight Rockers (Cage Match) 1/17/87)
4. Nick Bockwinkel vs. Wahoo McDaniel (8/28/83)
5. Stan Hansen vs. Curt Hennig (5/31/86)
6. Buddy Rose & Doug Somers vs. Midnight Rockers (Cage Match) (12/25/86)
7. King Tonga, Masked Superstar & Sheik Adnan Kaissey vs. Crusher Blackwell & Sgt. Slaughter (Cage Match) (4/21/85)
8. Nick Bockwinkel vs. Curt Hennig (5/2/87)
9. Jerry Lawler vs. Kerry Von Erich (12/13/88)
10. Nick Bockwinkel vs. Rick Martel (9/20/84)
11. Tito Santana & Rick Martel vs. High Flyers (8/29/92)
12. Jerry Lawler vs. Curt Hennig (7/16/88)
13. Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Rick Martel (9/29/85)
14. Crusher Blackwell & Sheik Adnan Kaissey vs. High Flyers (Cage Match) (4/18/82)
15. Buddy Rose & Doug Somers vs. Midnight Rockers (1/27/87)
16. Nick Bockwinkel vs. Curt Hennig (12/25/86)
17. Ken Patera, Jesse Ventura & Bobby Heenan vs. Hulk Hogan & High Flyers (3/13/83)
18. Da Crusher & Greg Gagne vs. Crusher Blackwell & Sheik Adnan Kaissey (Cage Match) (3/25/84)
19. Crusher Blackwell vs. Mad Dog Vachon (Algerian Death Match) (5/22/83)
20. Stan Hansen vs. Crusher Blackwell (6/28/86)
21. Nick Bockwinkel vs. Ric Flair (1/17/86)
22. Adrian Adonis & Bob Orton Jr. vs. Midnight Rockers (January 1988)
23. Mr. Saito vs. Rick Martel (4/24/85)
24. Ric Flair vs. Magnum TA (9/28/85)
26. Crusher Blackwell & Ken Patera vs. High Flyers (11/24/83)
27. Nick Bockwinkel vs. Curt Hennig (3/7/87)
28. Stan Hansen vs. Nick Bockwinkel (4/20/86)
29. Nick Bockwinkel vs. Rick Martel (8/16/84)
30. Stan Hansen vs. Sgt. Slaughter (2/23/86)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aren't you a WWE section mod? You could like... spoiler it for him?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

There


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Didn't get around to see Misawa vs Williams yesterday, but today seems rather open from here till tomorrow. It's on. Maybe I'll be compelled to watch an entire series of their's. We'll see. I can never stick to anything...


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:side: I dislike nearly half of the top 30 Memphis matches.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Just to be clear before I respond, I'm not arguing with you or saying I think you are wrong, not even in the slightest, I just enjoy discussing this kind of nuanced crap every once in a while.


Oh yeah, of course.

YOU BIG.......POOPY



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> What I quoted from you is the gist of what I was saying, while combining it with whether the wrestler is better as a face or heel. Vader and Dustin had tremendous chemistry, but would it have been the same if Vader was the baby face and Dustin was the heel? Highly unlikely.


Oh no WAY, but, again, that's on 'alignment' (is that the general word for face/heel?), and not on opponent.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Thats kinda what I was getting at with Williams, imagine if Vader spent part of his time wrestling as a heel in Japan against Misawa, Kobashi, Kawada, etc. and then spent the rest of his time as a baby face wrestling against Sid, British Bulldog, Bossman, etc. We'd probably be saying the same thing about him, and to me Vader is as good as it gets as a wrestler.


Again (again) I completely agree that babyface/heel affects performance. Hell,, not even individual performance, like, how the entire wrestler is. Christian as a face in 2009/10 - one of the best runs in WWE history. Christian as a heel in 2011.....meh. Dropped a lot. Opponent didn't affect that, though. Christian looked just as good against DH Smith, Shelton Benjamin, Zack Ryder, Yoshi Tatsu than he did against anybody else. 



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> You said that you think Austin's performance as a heel against Kane could be just as good if not better than Austin as a heel vs Benoit, and that's where will just have to agree to disagree. That's in the realm of opinion, because right now sitting here I can't imagine a scenario where Austin could be as good as he was in that SD! match against Benoit against Kane. He wouldn't be able to toss Kane around like a sack of shit, trade submissions, and just flat out dominate like he did against the smaller Benoit. That's why I enjoyed Austins heel work in 01' so much, he was able to just dominate large portions of the match while always keeping it interesting, exciting, and above all not sacrificing common sense and good selling.


I wasn't using THE Benoit match as an example because that's pretty much a PPV main event and Austin has mastered those by that point, but I mean A Benoit match. Say a hypothetical one. Then take a hypothetical match with Kane. Let's say they get the exact same amount of time, Benoit and Kane are the exact same hierarchy on the card (which I also don't really thing matters, dozens have looked amazing in squash matches). Austin could easily be better against Kane. EASILY. He might not be able to toss Kane around but there's fifty other things he could do instead. And I'm someone who thinks execution is usually more important than idea. Austin could be 'very good' against Benoit and 'AMAZING' against Kane. Maybe the Kane match won't be as good because of Benoit being AMAZING and Kane being passable. But, again (I am saying again a lot), the difference between match and performance is there.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Lastly, you really enjoyed Regal's work against Bourne MORE than when he wrestled Benoit in those fantastic matches between 05'-06'? Huh. Im guessing you just enjoyed Regal being a full blown twat, stomping, choking, and cheating at every turn as opposed to the realistic athletic contest style he worked with Benoit? Nothing wrong with that, preference is preference.


Do I enjoy it more? I don't know, really. The 2010 WWE list is what I think is "best" stuff without trying to be too bias, but if I was, and it was 'favourite', Regal/Bourne would be top 5. And a large portion of that is that Regal to me in the match looked like the best wrestler in the WORLD in it. Maybe that sounds silly to some people that I can think that about a four minute match where you barely get to do anything, but he was, like, great and..ah screw I'll repost my thing:



> William Regal v. Evan Bourne (SuperStars 3/4/10)
> You know what? I thought this was an even better six minutes than Rey/Punk. Regal was just unreal in this match. Early on Bourne is trying to escape armbars and armlocks by jumping onto Regal’s head with his legs, and Regal’s face absolutely perfectly described the situation he was in. It was a mixture of ‘fuck didn’t really expect that’ and ‘nah ah, watch me get out of this one’ while he head was being squeezed and he threw Bourne off of him. He kept mostly on top with power moves and submission holds that looked totally ridiculous. Whenever Bourne would get a couple of ranas or kicks in (which Regal sells the after-effects of perfectly by manoeuvring his jaw or arching his back), Regal would explode with a forearm and a suplex. After the first bit of ranas Bourne used, Regal just pulled the most ungodly bit of that out of his hat, like ‘not, fuck you, you AREN’T doing that, you WILL stay down, now get the FUCK down’. The lock where Regal had Bourne’s head and wrist tied up all at once was incredible and I wish someone would use that as a finisher hold. I love me some Bourne as face in peril and not many could have done what he did here, but Regal looked like the best in the world. Maybe I’m overrating him because I haven’t really been into wrestling for weeks and almost forgot what a best wrestler in the world looked like, but fuck it, while watching this I was an awestruck eleven year old. ADDING


Huh...the match was six minutes. Cool.

I'm not trying to talk down the great stuff with Benoit but IDK if Regal looked this good to me in any of them. Maybe I haven't seen that stuff in a while, but I think he was a better wrestler in 2009 and 2010 than he was in 2005 and 2006. 



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> You wouldn't watch their No Mercy 06' match and say "Damn that Regal was really something in that match, what an incredible performance!" It was what they were able to do when they combined their efforts to produce some of the most realistic and exciting pro wrestling matches I've personally ever seen.


Oh yeah, completely. I mean you might praise Regal, but not while avoiding the same praise for Benoit. That's obv a match-specific thing.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> As you pointed out with Fujiwara, one wrestlers performance can easily tank a match but it shouldnt take away from how well his opponent performs. In theory you are right, but there are always instances where one wrestler is so bad that his opponent can't make heads or tails of the situation and is left struggling for his life to just keep the match afloat instead of focusing on his own work. For that I give you exhibit A: Angle vs Eddie at SS 04'. Eddie could not do jack shit with Angle that match, there was just no way it was going to be possible for Eddie to have a good performance with Angle acting like a coked out moron.


I'm.....going to be totally honest. This is another match I haven't seen in years and years, but I remember thinking Eddie was just as awful as Angle in that match. Probably worse. I remember it being the worst I've ever seen him look. It's probably been since 2010 so I can't elaborate at all, though, so I'll plead ignorance.

But let's pretend I did think Eddie was trying to pull the match together. That might be a good performance to me. It doesn't HAVE to be, but if he's working around a coked out moron and trying to make the best of everything, then yeah, I can't not call that at least kind of good. I think good performance is entirely dependant on the situation the wrestler is in. If you're in there with a guy who sucks and you also suck, well - you suck.

If wrestler A gives wrestler B no opening to do anything and wrestler B looks stupid - that's on wrestler A be to me. Wrestler B maybe looks stupid, but who put him in that position? OK, yeah, wrestler B might look worse because doesn't get to do anything. I see your point there. I think that _could_ happen but I cant really think of an example.


There are situations where a wrestler sees another wrestler suck and might, IDK, give up trying, but, yeah, I think that's TOTALLY on them for giving up. I'll say I can't 'blame them', but a bad performance is a bad performance. Kawada was trying to the very end of that shitty match. I agree that sometimes one wrestler makes it seemingly impossible to be even be carried by another wrestler (e.g. 2003 HHH), but he wouldn't make the other guy look not-good. Steiner and Nash did that on their own. Booker looked pretty damn good to me.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Matches like that are few and far between thankfully, but they DO happen. Just as the opposite happens, like when Angle wrestled Austin and Austin brought the absolute best performance possible out of Angle just about every single time performances Angle was never able to achieve when facing anyone else throughout the rest of his career.


You definitely have a point with Austin/Angle. I'd be naive to call coincidence to that. That probably falls under that 'hiding weakness' category.



funnyfaces1 said:


> :side: I dislike nearly half of the top 30 Memphis matches.


i dislike your stupid fucking face NO SIDE SMILEY


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Didn't get around to see Misawa vs Williams yesterday, but today seems rather open from here till tomorrow. It's on. Maybe I'll be compelled to watch an entire series of their's. We'll see. I can never stick to anything...


Have you seen Kobashi/Misawa NOAH 1/3/03? Just watched it last night for the first time (shortly after I watched Williams/Misawa 94' I got on a Misawa kick ) and my word. I'm not even sure how to describe the feeling I got watching that match. One one hand, mother of God that was one of the most dangerous non gimmick matches I've ever seen, maybe THE most dangerous. On the other hand, that sort of became Misawa's deal, and they weren't doing it just for the sake of it, at least I didn't get that feeling, there was a story with Kobashi targeting Misawa's neck and being relentless in his attack on it. Couple it with the back story, over a decade of those guys tagging together and wrestling each other, and with the emotion they both displayed, and I have no choice but to totally love the match. Spot heavy, yes, dangerous as hell, yes, but still I thought it was awesome. Maybe that makes me a hypocrite but I don't particularly care.

Just wondering what your thoughts were, or anyone else's, if you've seen it. I know you generally are not super big on matches laid out like that, but there are always expeceptions, and maybe you saw it a completely different way than I did


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I thought that match was alright, but it gets weaker on rewatches. It's become one of those matches that was once revered by everybody, but now it's getting some disdain. They had a match in 1995 that I thought was their best work because it didn't try to be some crazy epic and it was just Misawa and Kobashi having fun.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

I've always liked the Kobashi/Misawa 98 match the most from their series.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

I still love that NOAH match... :side:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I thought that match was alright, but it gets weaker on rewatches. It's become one of those matches that was once revered by everybody, but now it's getting some disdain. They had a match in 1995 that I thought was their best work because it didn't try to be some crazy epic and it was just Misawa and Kobashi having fun.


I suppose that's the good side of just recently really getting into AJPW/NJPW etc, things haven't gotten old or played out for me yet. And I'm still finding matches like this one and watching them for the first time. I've seen 3 Kobashi/Misawa matches, each one time, and I loved all of them. I don't see a problem with them trying to make their matches "epic", this is the 2 biggest baby faces of the 1990's facing off on a huge stage after years and years of them being friends/tag team partners. What isn't epic about that? That's why I never had a problem with the Michaels/Taker WM matches, yes they definitely tried to make them "epic" and at times you could say it was a bit forced, but it's friggin Shawn Michaels and The Undertaker at WM. Those the 2 names most synonymous with WrestleMania in the modern era. They aren't gonna just go out there and have fun, they are gonna ham it up and go for the epic story telling stuff, same as what Kobashi and Misawa did in the 3 matches I've seen from them.


----------



## Paul Rudd (Oct 23, 2010)

All of the Misawa vs Kobashi matches are epic IMO. Those 2 guys are just on another level.

My favorite matche of theirs:


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Brock said:


> Bloody hell Kenny, couldn't you have spoiler boxed that lol.  Scrolling on my phone makes it seem like War and Peace.


lol, spoiler tags don't hide that shit. At least on my phone. I was nodding my head in agreement with your post, until I had to scroll down past your post too. :lol

Oh, well. I guess we can't expect the mobile site to have all of the features that the computer site has.

ER doesn't excite me, but on paper, a lot of the matches look like they could be pretty good. I have a feeling Bryan isn't going to wrestle, though.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Watched McIntyre/Masters, and was pleasantly surprised. I remember greeting the Masters love from around this time with some serious skepticism, mainly since this was around the time the workrate-heavy "fighting spirit" style of the indies was going out of vogue with a vengeance and anybody who could sell seemed to be getting put over as some kind of super worker. This was really good, though -- nothing especially blow-you-away brilliant, but everything rock-solid. (Actually, I'll say that I was very impressed by Masters' facility with the face-in-peril role, since I also watched his _Unforgiven '05_ match with HBK today and was equally impressed with how well he "got" the powerhouse-heel-in-control role at such a young age.) ***3/4, maybe? (For both Masters matches I watched today, actually, both elevated above *** almost entirely due to his performance.) Open to some more recs from this period too, if anybody has any.


----------



## Undertaker777 (Nov 11, 2006)

Pretty sure the Halloween Misawa/Kobashi match is their best-known.

About to watch 'Taker/Benoit/Kane/Rock from Unforgiven 2000. Don't think I've seen it before.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Have you seen Kobashi/Misawa NOAH 1/3/03? Just watched it last night for the first time (shortly after I watched Williams/Misawa 94' I got on a Misawa kick ) and my word. I'm not even sure how to describe the feeling I got watching that match. One one hand, mother of God that was one of the most dangerous non gimmick matches I've ever seen, maybe THE most dangerous. On the other hand, that sort of became Misawa's deal, and they weren't doing it just for the sake of it, at least I didn't get that feeling, there was a story with Kobashi targeting Misawa's neck and being relentless in his attack on it. Couple it with the back story, over a decade of those guys tagging together and wrestling each other, and with the emotion they both displayed, and I have no choice but to totally love the match. Spot heavy, yes, dangerous as hell, yes, but still I thought it was awesome. Maybe that makes me a hypocrite but I don't particularly care.
> 
> Just wondering what your thoughts were, or anyone else's, if you've seen it. I know you generally are not super big on matches laid out like that, but there are always expeceptions, and maybe you saw it a completely different way than I did


Truth be told, when it comes to Kobashi, dangerous head spots were always ok w/me. And I've always been lenient on these two doing those kind of moments to each other _(in regards to now Misawa, too) _b/c of their LONG history. It's almost percolated to such a degree that this IS what you would expect. Compared to say what certain areas of the Juniors division has done in NOAH. Where it is such a "bang bang" workrate heavy style for countless minutes w/no other form of substance & I'm instantly turned off. I'm gonna watch it in a bit to refresh myself and I'll come back to this post for any revisions/additions, but yeah, as of right now, I'm a fan. The idea of disliking a "big" Kobashi singles match is one that really doesn't come up often.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Always thought 1/20/97 destroyed every other Misawa/Kobashi. 03 match is good but it takes a while to really get going for me. Never been HUGE on it. Or NOAH Kobashi in general, tbh.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I have never seen a single match from their series .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I don't think i have either TBH.  Im only just now getting through the Misawa/Kawada series.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Always thought 1/20/97 destroyed every other Misawa/Kobashi. 03 match is good but it takes a while to really get going for me. Never been HUGE on it. Or NOAH Kobashi in general, tbh.


Not even vs Sasaki or, a potentially random selection, vs Minoru Suzuki? Hell, I should have started w/the Big Tak match. You have to enjoy that one, right?



Hayley Seydoux said:


> Truth be told, when it comes to Kobashi, dangerous head spots were always ok w/me. And I've always been lenient on these two doing those kind of moments to each other _(in regards to now Misawa, too) _b/c of their LONG history. It's almost percolated to such a degree that this IS what you would expect. Compared to say what certain areas of the Juniors division has done in NOAH. Where it is such a "bang bang" workrate heavy style for countless minutes w/no other form of substance & I'm instantly turned off. I'm gonna watch it in a bit to refresh myself and I'll come back to this post for any revisions/additions, but yeah, as of right now, I'm a fan. The idea of disliking a "big" Kobashi singles match is one that really doesn't come up often.


Watched. Still a fan. Truth be told, it's the type of match that if it probably wasn't Kobashi vs Misawa, I wouldn't really be into it. Now I know that covers a LOT of ground, and I'm so high on Kawada, that w/him inserted into a match like this the chances are I'll probably eat my own words, but for the basis of setting a point that was asked of me by The Rabid Wolverine, well, I stand that Kobashi vs Misawa made this kind of a match work on every level. 

It's sectional. More towards the end, although you can see the chunks of the match laid out as they occur. I'm more than fine w/that. There's a wild progression here. It's like a heart monitor. You have the peaks & valleys in the first half. Some cool down wearing the opponent out holds, insert a nasty spill here, and that's a tiny bit of a gist of how it was done in the first 15 minutes. I'm being vague and it sounds dangerously close to being some modern day garbage workers would deem "great", but it's so much more than that. And those who have seen this match know what I'm getting at. Then it proceeds to jump into cardiac arrest and stay high the rest of the way. I'm certain the notion of lying on the mat for a quick breather following a pinfall wasn't even the intent in terms of both story & reality. It's just a fact of life when you're that exhausted after the insane punishment both were putting on each other. Humans get hurt when hitting each other non-stop for 20 minutes. You're gonna need a minor 5-10 break before attempting strength to pick someone up again. To me, that's where this gets a pass compared to something I HATE like Undertaker vs Triple H from WM 27. I hate to bring it up b/c fuck that crap, but when I think of morons lying on the ground to milk stuff, I think of them on that night. Or Triple H on a lot of other occasions. There's the competitive hate between Kobashi & Misawa that is evident in the ring during the match to sell all of this above and beyond. An idea that the history is so deep between the two, that winning a championship in this promotion is now a matter of _(near)_ life & death. That not only winning the championship means you're the title holder, but that you were the best of the two period. In their minds throughout the match "motherfucker, no, I'm the best of the four pillars." and then they proceed to attempt to break some necks.

Floored I didn't remember the tiger suplex off the apron spot. If anything about this match is second to the burning hammer being the finish, then it was what nearly took out Kobashi for good. A move that sums up my idea of the match in a ludicrous nutshell. Damn near the be all, end all of "insane Puro spots". So much so that you actually can't believe you saw two guys willingly take a spin like that. Especially when they were nearly on empty some 24 minutes into a match. It's how strong of an aura both had/have on the crowd. Or fans in general. They can make the average "over the top" element something that isn't cringe-worthy, but actually defined as "EPIC". As larger than life. We're stuck in the palm of their hands _(generally speaking for those still a fan of this match, that is)_ so once it rises and rises and rises we're not left w/a feeling of ugh, we're left w/a feeling of ecstasy. More or less. A personal high from being captivated via the entire atmosphere of it all. It might not be ideal professional wrestling every single night. Yet, for these two, that night couldn't have been more hot for those two to literally let it all hang out for anyone who saw.

All this being said, I still wouldn't dub it my favorite match between them, or my favorite match either of them has had. If someone said which did you like more: Kobashi vs Misawa 2003 or Kawada vs Jamal for the Triple Crown Championship, I'd choose the latter. More my style. Does that immediately denounce any praise I've just typed up? Absolutely not. I like this match a whole bunch & it's p. much the best way to sum up a superhero type quality pro wrestling can have _(w/me)_ while watching. It gets stressed how rare of an outing an extremely bang bang bomb throwing affair like this can be and how it can work, but we all understand certain specific aspects that go into certain specific matches. You often hope for transcendence in terms of building up a match & hoping a decent percentage of that lives up when it actually plays out. Very rarely do you get it 100% like it achieved here. That's when you stop and realize, almost regardless of how you truly personally feel about the match as a whole, that's when they did do something correct.

A mega war. Nothing seemed better for their last _("big"..)_ singles match vs one another, as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I thought the part where they were exhausted and throwing everything they had into each other before falling to the floor like tired old men was absolutely what made the match. If it had a build-up just as good as the blow off I'd have no problem calling it an awesome match.

One day I gotta re-watch HHH/Taker at Mania 27. Hope I like it so Cody and I's disagree list can hit double digits.

Kobashi in noah - Don't get me wrong there's plenty of NOAH Kobashi I really like. The Takayama match might be a MOTDC. Kobashi/Suzuki is OK. I've honestly never liked Suzuki and there's only a couple of his matches I've ever seen that he didn't spent the middle match boring me in. I used to find him annoying and not the way he wanted you to find him annoying. I thought he was out of place or something. Seems like everybody in the world agrees he's been great since 2012 and I haven't seen any of that, though. Kobashi/Sasaki is OK as well. Sasaki's never really interested me either. Thought Kobashi/Joe was infinitely better for a similar kind of match. Again I think a bunch of 2000s Kobashi is good but there were probably a dozen matches that people were throwing ****1/2+ at that I didn't think were really above "good" at best. Some I thought honestly sucked.

Have you seen Kobashi/Akiyama 12/23/00? Pretty much as good as any NOAH match I've seen, I'd say. 

NOAH as a whole I've never thought has a particularly big catalogue of great matches. I'd like to do a NOAH list one day to change my mind about that. There's still a good few matches I never watched that I always wanted to, I'll admit.


----------



## Paul Rudd (Oct 23, 2010)

I'm a big fan of 2000's Kobashi. He was so banged up by that point that his moveset was mostly just chops, but he still had that fire and everything he did felt big. The guy just comes across as an absolute warrior to me.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The last Kobashi/Misawa match was in 2004. Short match, but worth checking out. The 1/20/97 match had lots of great stuff, but it had a very disappointing ending. All that work Kobashi did throughout that match (especially on Misawa's arm) and it all meant nothing. On top of that, Kobashi utilized that same strategy in their later matches which made him look kinda dumb because this match already determined that Misawa's right arm is incapable of getting hurt.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Reading these posts made me realize I don't know a goddamn thing about classic puro. I've heard that AJPW was on fire back in the 90s. I've seen one Kobashi/Misawa match and I remember it being a lot of arm work with no real pay off, so I was never interested in it again tbh.

But since my taste in wrestling has changed a lot over the years and my mind is a hell of a lot more open now (thank you WWE for sucking so much that you forced to me to look elsewhere) where's a good place to start with all this classic puro? If there's a particular series, I like to watch matches in order. Dates please? Anyone?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Kobashi is easily my favorite Japanese wrestler. For some reason before I started watching a lot of stuff from Japan I had this idea that none of the Japanese wrestlers had any character, that is until I watched that Hansen/Kobashi match from 93' and had that idea completely shattered for me. He had so much fire and intensity that I found myself focusing on him more than on Hansen, which shouldnt be possible. Still have yet to see a match of his where I didn't like his performance. 

Cody that was an excellent match write up and I find myself agreeing with just about everything you said. Those guys made me honestly feel like they were giving every single ounce of themselves to try and win that match, that it was worth dying for, and 5 minutes in they had me completely captivated and rocking and reeling with every move done. That's why they are the masters. And yes that Tiger Suplex spot is beyond insane, I thought it was going to be the typical spot were they tease something huge then Kobashi fights out of it and hits something else not quite as big but still big enough not to be a dissapointment. Nope. Misawa says fuck that and just tosses Kobashi right off the fucking stage like a complete lunatic, he's willing to kill his opponent to just win the match.

Zeppers, you were asking a few weeks ago for a match rec where 2 guys just throw bombs at each other, this is your match. I don't think I've ever seen a better example or seen it done better than it was here. Kobashi/Misawa 1/3/03, it's on YouTube


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks Chris. Once I've finished watching some Kwada/Misawa, ill move onto the Kobashi/Misawa series until I get to that match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I thought the part where they were exhausted and throwing everything they had into each other before falling to the floor like tired old men was absolutely what made the match. If it had a build-up just as good as the blow off I'd have no problem calling it an awesome match.
> 
> One day I gotta re-watch HHH/Taker at Mania 27. Hope I like it so Cody and I's disagree list can hit double digits.
> 
> ...


You liking the WM 27 match has about as good of a chance as I do dating someone w/a year round tan.

Well, the Takayama match holds up. If anything, I knew you had to be into that. Truth be told, I don't think I've ever discussed Suzuki w/you and had no idea which way you'd feel about the match. I wouldn't deny the claims that ever since he feuded w/Tanahashi for the IWGP strap in 2012, he's been on a different level. He even had what was probably my favorite GHC Championship match in a long time (lets say very early 2012; iirc Morishima vs Shiozaki) and it was vs Marufuji. Not saying you'll even remotely give a shit about it, but I'm on board w/latter MiSu prevailing in big matches. Kobashi vs Sasaki next to Kobashi vs Joe is hard for me to pick. Technically Kobashi vs Joe does count, b/c he was in NOAH (duh, me). I guess both are similar in story and both have such a mystique behind em that I can hold em evenly until I watch em back to back and just feel like digging one more than the other on that specific day. Trying to think of others. This is me basically pruning his GHC title reign for matches. What about Kobashi/Shiozaki vs Akiyama/Tenryu? That's kind of always been my favorite tag match from NOAH.

I'm 50% certain I watched that Akiyama match last year part of the Best Puro matches of the decade set Rah & I were doing but he got MUCH further in b/c I'm a piece of trash. If that is the same match, then that's probably the best I've ever seen Akiyama look. EDIT ughhh, nevermind. Match I'm thinking of was still in All Japan. D'oh. Unsure of this match but it's on youtube so I might as well check it out.

Even though a good bit is online these days, I wouldn't mind ordering a few of those Best of NOAH sets IVP have (or had, if still in stock.) There's some older matches I'd enjoy seeing again or for the first time.



sharkboy22 said:


> Reading these posts made me realize I don't know a goddamn thing about classic puro. I've heard that AJPW was on fire back in the 90s. I've seen one Kobashi/Misawa match and I remember it being a lot of arm work with no real pay off, so I was never interested in it again tbh.
> 
> But since my taste in wrestling has changed a lot over the years and my mind is a hell of a lot more open now (thank you WWE for sucking so much that you forced to me to look elsewhere) where's a good place to start with all this classic puro? If there's a particular series, I like to watch matches in order. Dates please? Anyone?


Depends what you're potentially wanting to see. If you want the AJPW stuff from the 90's, aka the 4 pillars classics (Kawada, Kobashi, Misawa, & Taue) then you could just go right from the beginning of the decade and work your way up till they left for NOAH. Of course AJPW had a lot of classics in the 70's & 80's too. The Jumbo days can't be forgotten. 



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Kobashi is easily my favorite Japanese wrestler. For some reason before I started watching a lot of stuff from Japan I had this idea that none of the Japanese wrestlers had any character, that is until I watched that Hansen/Kobashi match from 93' and had that idea completely shattered for me. He had so much fire and intensity that I found myself focusing on him more than on Hansen, which shouldnt be possible. Still have yet to see a match of his where I didn't like his performance.
> 
> Cody that was an excellent match write up and I find myself agreeing with just about everything you said. Those guys made me honestly feel like they were giving every single ounce of themselves to try and win that match, that it was worth dying for, and 5 minutes in they had me completely captivated and rocking and reeling with every move done. That's why they are the masters. And yes that Tiger Suplex spot is beyond insane, I thought it was going to be the typical spot were they tease something huge then Kobashi fights out of it and hits something else not quite as big but still big enough not to be a dissapointment. Nope. Misawa says fuck that and just tosses Kobashi right off the fucking stage like a complete lunatic, he's willing to kill his opponent to just win the match.


It's tough where I rank Kobashi overall, granted, if I were to map out a "top 10 Japanese favorites" list, he'd easily be on it. Gone into detail on other accounts w/how much I love him. I only stress this w/others in elite territory: Liger, Kawada, & yes, as uncommon as it is for some others, Muta.

The spot left me stunned, tbhayley. When they showed the crowd who had their jaws literally dropped, I was basically the same way. Still lost on how I can forget such a thing, but aye, last night was like it was the first time all over again. Which certainly wasn't a bad thing.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

http://new.ivpvideos2.com/product_info.php?products_id=3990

Not that ive watched it yet, but this is the 'best of NOAH' set i have. Grabbed it as the lineup looked very enticing.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Think I have a rejuvenated interest in wrestling for now after watching Tsuruta vs Tenryu from like May 1989. Don't suppose I could ask for some other suggestions from the 80s Japan?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Desecrated said:


> Think I have a rejuvenated interest in wrestling for now after watching Tsuruta vs Tenryu from like May 1989. Don't suppose I could ask for some other suggestions from the 80s Japan?


Something to look at, the 'Top 30's' from DVDVR's poll:



Spoiler: NJ/AJ Match List



*New Japan Results -Top 30*

1. 5-on-5 Gauntlet Challenge 4/19/84
2. Andre the Giant vs. Stan Hansen 9/23/81
3. Tatsumi Fujinami, Keiichi Yamada, Shiro Koshinaka, Yoshiaki Fujiwara & Kengo Kimura vs. Hiro Saito, Kuniaki Kobayashi, Super Strong Machine, Masa Saito & Riki Choshu 9/12/88
4. Antonio Inoki, Tatsumi Fujinami, Kengo Kimura, Umanosuke Ueda & Kantaro Hoshino vs. Akira Maeda, Yoshiaki Fujiwara, Osamu Kido, Nobuhiko Takada & Kazuo Yamazaki 3/26/86
5. Riki Choshu vs. Yoshiaki Fujiwara 6/9/87
6. Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Akira Maeda 6/12/86
7. Jushin Liger vs. Naoki Sano 8/10/89
8. 5-on-5 Challenge 5/1/86
9. Andre the Giant vs. Killer Khan 4/1/82
10. Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Riki Choshu 4/3/83
11. Inoki/Fujiwara/Sakaguchi/Hoshino/Mutoh vs. Fujinami/Choshu/Maeda/Kimura/Super Strong Machine 8/19/87
12. Riki Choshu & Masa Saito vs. George Takano & Super Strong Machine 3/16/89
13. Antonio Inoki vs. Yoshiaki Fujiwara 2/6/86
14. Tatsumi Fujinami, Nobuhiko Takada, Riki Choshu, Akira Maeda & Super Strong Machine vs. Antonio Inoki, Dick Murdoch, Yoshiaki Fujiwara, Masa Saito & Seiji Sakaguchi 9/17/87
15. Shinya Hashimoto vs. Vader 4/24/89
16. Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Riki Choshu 8/4/83
17. Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Riki Choshu 4/21/83
18. Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Kengo Kimura 1/2/87
19. Riki Choshu vs. Big Van Vader 6/27/89
20. Tatsumi Fujinami & Antonio Inoki vs. Dick Murdoch & Adrian Adonis 12/7/84
21. Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Riki Choshu 7/7/83
22. Antonio Inoki vs. Masa Saito 4/27/87
23. Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Dynamite Kid 2/5/80
24. Akira Maeda vs. Yoshiaki Fujiwara 2/5/86
25. Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Vader 4/24/89
26. Antonio Inoki vs. Dick Murdoch 6/19/86
27. Shinya Hashimoto vs. Victor Zangiev 4/24/89
28. Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Kengo Kimura 9/25/80
29. Akira Maeda vs. Yoshiaki Fujiwara 1/10/86
30. Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Riki Choshu 6/24/88

*All Japan Results - Top 30*

1. Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Genichiro Tenryu (6/5/89)
2. Genichiro Tenryu & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Stan Hansen & Terry Gordy (12/16/88)
3. Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Riki Choshu Yoshiaki Yatsu (1/28/86)
4. Jumbo Tsuruta & Yoshiaki Yatsu vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Stan Hansen (12/6/89)
5. Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Ric Flair (6/8/83)
6. Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Kerry Von Erich (2/3 Falls) (5/22/84)
7. Giant Baba & Rusher Kimura vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Stan Hansen (11/29/89)
8. Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Genichiro Tenryu (8/31/87)
9. Riki Choshu vs. Killer Khan (7/31/86)
10. Terry Funk vs. Stan Hansen (4/14/83)
11. Toshiaki Kawada & Ricky Fuyuki vs. Dan Kroffat & Doug Furnas (6/5/89)
12. Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Genichiro Tenryu (10/11/89)
13. Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Genichiro Tenryu (10/28/88)
14. Jumbo Tsuruta & Yoshiaki Yatsu vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Toshiaki Kawada (2/26/89 TV)
15. Billy Robinson vs. Nick Bockwinkel (12/11/80)
16. Jumbo Tsuruta & Kenta Kobashi vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Stan Hansen (7/15/89)
17. Dory and Terry Funk vs. Stan Hansen & Terry Gordy (8/31/83)
18. Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Stan Hansen (10/21/86)
19. Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Riki Choshu & Yoshiaki Yatsu (2/5/86)
20. Bruiser Brody & Jimmy Snuka vs. Dory and Terry Funk (12/13/81)
21. Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Ric Flair (6/8/82)
22. Toshiaki Kawada & Ricky Fuyuki vs. Shunji Takano & Shinichi Nakano (7/19/88)
23. Genichiro Tenryu & Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Killer Khan & Riki Choshu (8/2/85)
24. Genichiro Tenryu vs. Stan Hansen (3/27/88)
25. Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Tiger Mask (3/9/88)
26. Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Riki Choshu & Yoshiaki Yatsu (1/24/87)
27. Genichiro Tenryu vs. Stan Hansen (7/27/88)
28. Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Dick Slater (5/1/80)
29. Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Riki Choshu & Yoshiaki Yatsu (2/5/87)
30. Masa Fuchi vs. Mitsuo Momota (3/29/89)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> What about Kobashi/Shiozaki vs Akiyama/Tenryu? That's kind of always been my favorite tag match from NOAH.


I liked that tag a lot, IIRC. 

I'm obviously a Kobashi fan but he's never really been one of my favourite wrestlers. Definitely not one of my top ten favourite Japanese wrestlers. Top ten "best," though, yeah. I could maybe see him getting bumped out to 11 or 12 one day. I mean I'm not 3000% positive I'd put him over Taue. I still think Taue doesn't get what he deserves. Misawa, Kawada, Fujiwara, Tamura, Ishikawa, Taue, Hashimoto, Tenryu, Jumbo, Liger, Fujinami, maybe Choshu I could see going ahead of Kobashi. I wouldn't have *all *of those over him if you asked me right now, but I could see myself going either way on the rest. 



Brock said:


> http://new.ivpvideos2.com/product_info.php?products_id=3990
> 
> Not that ive watched it yet, but this is the 'best of NOAH' set i have. Grabbed it as the lineup looked very enticing.


That's what I bought to first get into NOAH. Some great stuff but there's a good few matches I thought were no good at all. 



> 16. Naomichi Marufuji & KENTA vs. Yoshinobu Kanemaru & Makoto Hashi - September 12th 2003 - Tokyo Nippon Budokan


I remember spitting poison when I saw this one. Hashi was the only redeeming thing about it. Like, you think I talk shit about Angle no selling? That's nothing. One of the most annoying matches I hope to ever see. And pretty much all of Marufuji's matches seem to go that way. If I do a NOAH list I will bite the bullet and watch this again, and write about it. Just get a bio-suit ready.



> 10. Kenta Kobashi vs. Akira Taue - September 10th 2004 - Tokyo Nippon Budokan


SHIT, forgot about this match. It's AWESOME. Taue is AWESOME even in 2004 when you expect him to move like 1992 Baba.
--------
I have no idea why Kobashi/Akiyama 2000 is a 'bonus' match. It might be the best match NOAH match I've seen. Well OK it probably isn't as good Kobashi/Takayama, but as good as anything for #2 .


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Desecrated said:


> Think I have a rejuvenated interest in wrestling for now after watching Tsuruta vs Tenryu from like May 1989. Don't suppose I could ask for some other suggestions from the 80s Japan?


A couple of my favorites:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

What has Cody done


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

I don't think there's a bad Misawa/Kobashi match - or for that matter a bad Kobashi match ever. The guy is simply golden. I kind of chuckle reading reviews from people who've never seen them, as they basically shatter lots of North American rules on wrestling, and yet every match is some of the sweetest stuff on the face of the earth. I actually got sad after the Kobashi/Misawa match that ends with the Burning Hammer (AJPW one) as I remember thinking "Will wrestling ever be this good again?" And then that became my criteria for a ***** match - so good, it almost destroys your love for the art for a time. For a month after that, every match I saw was simply "meh." I get a particular giggle from the "trying to be epic" or "too many spots" :lol ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?! Nobody does that stuff! And the marks who try to imitate it are no better than the jackhole trying a shitty La Magistral. Don't blame ***** Casas for that. I just see two guys putting all their cards on the table and going for broke on one of the biggest stages in the world. Nothing wrong w/that at all.

In fact, it's made all the more better as a shock to the system if you've never seen it. And I'm all about the first 3 KENTA/Marufuji matches as well for the same reasoning. When you get those opportunities, you gotta go for broke. Where would either guy be without those classics? 

Cal saying that like he should be proud that he's watched shitty ppvs from 2008 *multiple* times, but never a Misawa/Kobashi:lol You got balls Cal!

ETA: NOAH's undercard, even during its heyday, wasn't very strong. When Seguira (sp?) was coming up, he was great to watch, Morishima for a time too and Kanemoto as well. Shoizaki when he was still a baby was really good as well. Also love the guy who had long hair and wore a red singlet (don't remember the name), but him gimmick as basically the punching bag/zombie was pretty damn funny. Mostly though, their top of the card stuff was pretty meaty from the beginning to Kobashi's retirement match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Tamon Honda? Then you had that guy who did the flying headbutt from the top rope to the floor or some crazy shit like that every match. Not sure how he never crushed his sternum.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tamon Honda plug (Y)



Yeah1993 said:


> I liked that tag a lot, IIRC.
> 
> I'm obviously a Kobashi fan but he's never really been one of my favourite wrestlers. Definitely not one of my top ten favourite Japanese wrestlers. Top ten "best," though, yeah. I could maybe see him getting bumped out to 11 or 12 one day. I mean I'm not 3000% positive I'd put him over Taue. I still think Taue doesn't get what he deserves. Misawa, Kawada, Fujiwara, Tamura, Ishikawa, Taue, Hashimoto, Tenryu, Jumbo, Liger, Fujinami, maybe Choshu I could see going ahead of Kobashi. I wouldn't have *all *of those over him if you asked me right now, but I could see myself going either way on the rest.


Misawa is like that for me. I'm clearly a fan, but he's never been viewed as one of my all time favorites. Just compared to others I always tend to root for them more, yet he's got more than enough matches & even specific performances that I love.

What about Taka? iirc you even put him as one of your all-time top ten favorites. :hmm:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Never said I was proud to be watching multiple shitty 08 PPV's instead of those Japanese Wrestler A Vs Japanese Wrestler B matches .

Besides, I've yet to re-watch a shitty 08 PPV, so there 8*D.

Speaking of non shitty PPV's... NO MERCY 2006 is today's PPV Ramble on my BLOGS~!


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

everything cleaned up and matches added/removed etc

going to lay down and enjoy watching some of these (some of the first time)





Spoiler: match list



FULL-LENGTH MATCH - Raw - Shawn Michaels vs. RVD - World Heavyweight Championship Match
by WWE
13:29 More

FULL-LENGTH MATCH - Raw - APA vs. The Hardy Boyz - World Tag Team Title Match
by WWE
6:37 More

Mikey & Tajiri vs. Super Crazy & Kid Kash - ECW Massacre on 34th Street 2000 - WWXWCE
by sirtrod
21:51 More

FULL-LENGTH MATCH - Saturday Night's Main Event 2006 - DX vs. The Spirit Squad: Handicap Match
by WWE
12:08 More

Hardy Boyz & DX v.s. MNM & Rated-RKO
by GoToSleepTV
15:08 More

The Undertaker vs The Big Show ECW Chamionship [ECW 2006]
by Mert Özbalçık
15:01 More

WCW Nitro (1999) - Billy Kidman vs. Steven Regal
by indievocal
12:07 More

Eddie Guerrero vs Ultimo Dragon - WCW Slamboree 1998
by LatinoAndreGuerrero
14:22 More

Eddie Guerrero vs Dean Malenko - WCW Starrcade 1997
by LatinoAndreGuerrero
18:35 More

Ric Flair vs. Barry Windham (WCW 1993)
by wrestlingEra
14:55 More

1993.05.23 Bret Hart vs. Lex Luger (WWF Superstars)
by Валентин Бордунов
22:48 More

Backlash 2002 - Undertaker vs "Stone Cold" Steve Austin
by johncyber1980
33:36 More

William Regal Vs. Chris Benoit 10.08.06
by Davey Dert
14:54 More

Randy Orton Vs Chris Benoit WWE SummerSlam 2004 World Heavyweight Title Match
by XRandyOLegendKillerX
29:27 More

WWE King Of The Ring 2002 - Test vs Brock Lesnar
by OviFan98
10:50 More

The Undertaker vs Edge SummerSlam 2008 Full match HD.
by TheKratosPhenom
44:15 More

Stone Cold vs Scott Hall Wrestlemania 18 ~ FULL WWE MATCH (HQ)
by WWE Matches (YTCMComps)
12:19 More

Chris Jericho vs Wiliam Regal Wrestlemania 17
by Smackdowneqla3
11:12 More

Shane McMahon vs. Vince McMahon - Wrestlemania 17 HQ
by MrBarti98
23:29 More

The Undertaker vs Ric Flair | Wrestlemania X8 | No Disqualification
by TheJojowwe
26:04 More

VENGEANCE 2002 The Rock Vs Kurt Angle Vs Undertaker
by William Freire
28:35 More

John Cena vs JBL - Judgment Day 2005 I Quit Match
by IseebwoiiV2
33:21 More

WWE SURVIVOR SERIES 2005 Triple h vs Ric Flair
by WWFWWEVideosTV2
30:00 More

The Undertaker Vs Batista Last Man Standing match for the World Heavyweight Championship Backlash 2007
by ThEdArKsIdE97EnT
32:43 More

DX vs Legacy Hell in a Cell 2009 ( Full Match )
by HPfcp
29:19 More

WWE Extreme Rules 2014 - The Shield vs Evolution HIGH QUAILTY
by Hardyfanthe1stTVonline
21:11 More

Sami Zayn & Adrian Neville vs. Tyson Kidd & Justin Gabriel
by Tamju K
16:01 More

Antonio Cesaro vs Sami Zayn 2 Out 3 Falls Match
by Cristian Ojeda
18:23 More

William Regal vs Dean Ambrose I
by ThatMatchUploader
17:53 More

William Regal vs Dean Ambrose II
by ThatMatchUploader
20:03 More

WWE Smackdown - Chris Benoit & Eddie Guerrero vs. The Rock & Edge
by indievocal
14:45 More

WWE NO WAY OUT 2004 Brock Lesnar vs Eddie Guerrero (WWE TITLE MATCH)
by GREATWWFWWE
36:45 More

Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit vs Rey Mysterio 26/9/02
by Dispossession22
14:21 More

FULL-LENGTH MATCH - Raw - Christian vs. RVD - Intercontinental Championship Ladder Match
by WWE
15:56 More

FULL-LENGTH MATCH - Raw 2004 - Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels : Intercontinental Title Match
by WWE
16:24 More

Brock Lesnar vs John Cena Full Match Backlash 2003
by Eddie Benoit
18:59 More

Randy Orton vs CM Punk vs Sheamus vs Big Show (Winner Faces The Undertaker At Wm)
by Kunal Sanchez
12:57 More

CM Punk VS Daniel Bryan WWE Money in The Bank 2012
by Anubhav Jr.
37:20 More

10.27.96: Dean Malenko vs. Rey Mysterio
by WCWCruisers
20:46 More

Friday Night Smackdown #1 contender Battle Royal for World Heavyweight Championship
by Blazing Lion
16:51 More

WCW Thunder 2000-03-22 Vampiro vs. Disco Inferno [Sting helps Vampiro]
by Scott Hall
8:56 More

Malenko & Benoit V Mysterio & KIdman - WCW Tag Titles - WCW Nitro - 29-03-1999
by hurricaneh
12:58 More

Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio, Jr. - WCW Monday Nitro, August 1998
by WrestlingUploads2013
15:59 More

Kidman vs. Eddie Guerrero (1999)
by LemmingFan
10:19 More

RVD vs Bam Bam Bigelow
by thegcwradio
19:07 More

Chris Jericho Vs. Booker T - WCW Nitro - 18-01-1999
by hurricaneh
14:34 More

WrestleMania XXI-The Undertaker vs Randy Orton
by xxGaMuNiZiTiONxx
25:13 More

WWF RAW 2001 - Kane and The Undertaker vs Dudley Boyz (Tables Match) Full Match [HQ]
by Napster
10:02 More

WWF Prime Time: LOD vs. Nasty Boys
by VintageWWF
10:08 More

WWF FULLY LOADED 2000 Triple h vs Chris Jericho (LAST MAN STANDING)
by GREATWWFWWE
26:47 More

The Big Show, Billy Gunn, and Albert vs Shawn Stasiak, Chris Kanyon, and Hugh Morrus invasion 2001
by RWWrestling2001
8:33 More

Invasion 2001: Inaugural Brawl match
by cris96j4
47:11 More

Scott Steiner & Booker T Vs Batista &Triple H Monday Night Raw '03
by ismaeljoker
12:29 More

Scott Steiner vs Vampiro
by Wrestling Matches
9:30 More

WCW Monday Nitro 9-28-98 Big Poppa Pump Scott Steiner abuses 2 poor poor men
by wcwarchive
7:17 More

WCW Nitro 00 Lethal Lottery Final - Kronik v Sting & Scott Steiner.avi
by SecondSonGamer Official
9:59 More

Bobby Lashley Vs Scott Steiner Last Man Standing - Final Resolution 2009
by ThePhenomenalOneXD
14:42 More

WCW Nitro 2000-07-31 Scott Steiner vs Kevin Nash (Straighjacket Match)
by Scott Hall
9:31 More

Scott Steiner vs Booker T - Last Ever Nitro
by MrWrestlingChannel
8:47 More

Kevin Nash vs Scott Steiner - World Heavyweight title - WCW Monday Nitro - 1/15/01
by WCWVintage
8:12 More

WCW Monday Nitro 9-7-98 Sting and Lex Luger vs Rowdy Roddy Piper and Diamond Dallas Page
by wcwarchive
9:44 More

Tajiri vs Rey Mysterio 9/25/2003
by AC316 (aka AttitudeClassics316)
12:28 More
WATCHED 
Chris Jericho VS Cactus Jack
by PIROWbrodcasting01
15:29 More

La Parka & Psycosis vs. Rey Mysterio Jr. & Juventud Guerrera
by ScottHall222
9:21 More

Hart Foundation vs Rockers Prime Time Sept 11th, 1989
by MonsoonClassic
14:57 More
WATCHED 
Rey Misterio Jr. vs. Psicosis - 10/17/1995
by WWE
17:55 More

Sting, Windham, Steamboat, & Rhodes vs Dangerous Alliance Saturday Night Feb 22nd, 1992
by MonsoonClassic
14:48 More

Razor Ramon vs Diesel RAW Nov 21st, 1994
by MonsoonClassic
12:28 More

Rockers vs Demolition MSG Nov 24th, 1990
by MonsoonClassic
13:45 More

20-Man Tag Team Survivor Series Elimination Match: Survivor Series 1987
by WWE
2:48 More

Triple H vs Ric Flair Survivor Series 2005 HD 720p
by WWE Show
30:04 More

NXT: Antonio Cesaro vs Adrian Neville
by Dubi Pill
12:47 More

WWE PPV Unforgiven 2006 DX vs Shane McMahon & Big Show & Mr.McMahon (Full Match + Promo)
by reddicksas
38:54 More

Jeff Hardy vs Matt Hardy - I Quit Match (WWE Backlash 2009)
by MrAttodiFede
23:47 More

WWE Armageddon 2008 - Edge vs Jeff Hardy vs Triple H - WWE Championship
by WWEdgecator
32:41 More

Clash of the Champions IX 11 15 1989 Ric Flair vs Terry Funk I Quit match xvid
by ojoj khil
20:06 More


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Curious about Regal vs Kidman from 1999. Chapter is listed at 12 minutes. That means it has to be pre-Russo. _(p. sure Regal left around that time anyways) _So that gives me hope it's a random long match from Thunder.

Cal is watch 2008 PPVs for Undertaker b/c he's a god on a lot of events. Lets not try and kid ourselves that there is any other reason for this.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

My two favorite Kobashi's 2000s matches are his two Dome matches easily, vs Akiyama 04 and vs Sasaki 05.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Regal Vs Kidman - Nitro July 12th 1999

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k3d1BvZoisVaYIaUKky


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

_"Silver King, A LUCHADOR, had to have 60 stitches."_

Tony...flabbergasted a guy from Mexico was in a brawl & was bleeding. Off to a riveting start.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Match is worth watching for the finish alone.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Brock Lesnar vs Bubba Ray Dudley (Raw 05.27.2002)*

x2o11we

Really good short TV match. Both link up very well IMO. Funny to hear Lesnar's first WWE music too. A DM upload actually worked. :dance2


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

It's so weird to see Brock Lesnar pretty much dominated and having to use heel tactics to win :lol


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Enjoyed reading the discussion over the last few pages about Japanese stuff. I watched Kobashi/Misawa '03 last night and enjoyed it quite a bit.

Can anyone recommend just 10 matches that are unmissable from Japan? Don't care which era they're from, don't care if they're singles or tag matches, just want to get a taste for the cream of the crop. I want hot crowds, guys throwing bombs, great stories being told etc. The REALLY good stuff.

Hope that isn't too difficult of a request!


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

Eight must-see matches from the top of my head: 

Jumbo Tsuruta Vs Genichiro Tenryu - AJPW 5/6/89
Sano Vs Liger - NJPW - 31/1/90
Misawa Vs Kawada - AJPW 3/6/94
Kobashi Vs Akiyama - NOAH Dome 2004
Kobashi Vs Sasaki - NOAH Dome 2005
Tanahashi Vs Goto - NJPW Destruction 2007
Sasaki Vs Go - NOAH - 24/7/10
Tanahashi Vs Kojima - G1 Climax 2010 Finals


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (6/8/'90)

Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (9/1/'90)

Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue, & Masanobu Fuchi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Toshiaki Kawada, & Kenta Kobashi (4/20/'91)

Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Terry Gordy & Steve Williams (12/6/'91)

Doug Furnas & Dan Kroffat vs. Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi (5/25/'92)

Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Jun Akiyama & Yoshinari Ogawa (1/24/'93)

Stan Hansen vs. Toshiaki Kawada (2/28/'93)

Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi, & Jun Akiyama vs. Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue, & Yoshinari Ogawa (7/2/'93)

Stan Hansen vs. Kenta Kobashi (7/29/'93)

Steve Williams vs. Kenta Kobashi (8/31/'93)

Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (12/3/'93)

Steve Williams vs. Toshiaki Kawada (4/16/'94)

Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (5/21/'94)

Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada (6/3/'94)

Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi (1/19/'95)

Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs. Steve Williams & Johnny Ace (3/4/'95)

Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Akira Taue (4/15/'95)

Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (6/9/'95)

Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada (7/24/'95)

Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi (10/15/'95)

Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs. Steve Williams & Johnny Ace (6/7/'96)

Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (12/6/'96)

Kenta Kobashi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (1/20/'97)

Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi (10/21/'97)

Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi (6/12/'98)

Kenta Kobashi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (10/31/'98)

Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada (1/22/'99)

Vader vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (5/2/'99)

Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi (6/11/'99)

Mitsuharu Misawa & Yoshinari Ogawa vs. Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama (10/23/'99)

Oh, did I list a lot more than 10 matches? Doesn't matter; watch them all. You'll thank me later. And then you'll curse my name once you realize that '90s All Japan has forever ruined all other wrestling for you. And then you'll thank me again when you realize that what I posted here only just scratches the surface.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Just in case anyone forgot, Extreme Rules is on tonight.  Bryan is out due to injury and Barrett will wrestle Neville.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> What about Taka? iirc you even put him as one of your all-time top ten favorites. :hmm:


Oh yeah but I couldn't rank him anywhere near Kobashi. I was taking about 'best/better' for those guys. 'Favourites' you could throw in Taka, Takayama, Saito, Otsuka, Honda, somebody, somebody.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Well that match was surprisingly great. Best that Barrett has looked in a long time.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Totally fun match between Barrett & Neville. LOVE the end result. Have a good feeling about this show tonight, guys. (Y)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao What the hell was that ending?

EDIT: :lmao What the hell was THAT ending?

EDIT 2: :mark: What the hell was that ending?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Gonna be hard to top Sheamus vs. Ziggler. Really, really liked that. Sheamus is absolutely perfect in his role right now.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Ziggler is a geek


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm having way too much fun with this PPV right now. Even that Tag Title match was good! Crowd ate up everything.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Like I've said before a million times, nothing beats a Chicago crowd. Nothing.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Did Ambrose and Harper really go for like an hour on the outside of the stadium during the other two matches? :lmao


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Mark down Cena/Rusev as one of the more disappointing series of matches in quite some time. What a shame.

EDIT: Reigns/Big Show was entertaining on so many levels. Big Show putting a table back UNDERneath the ring was hilarious, and also: "Who wrote Big Show needs to lose weight? Smartass!" :lmao


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Neville/Barrett and the tag title match were really good.

I'm still at that part


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Neville vs. Bad News Barrett: ****1/2*
Dean Ambrose vs. Luke Harper: *FUN*
Sheamus vs. Dolph Ziggler: ****1/4*
Uppercats vs. The New Day: ****1/2*
John Cena vs. Rusev: ***
Naomi vs. Nikki Bella: ***
Roman Reigns vs. Big Show: *DUD*
Seth Rollins vs. Randy Orton: ***

I don't recall a Chicago show being this bad since Judgment Day in 1998. What the hell happened after the first hour?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

You didn't like the Cage match? I thought it was great. Rollins taking all the punishment works with his character of being a sleazy heel and needing everyone else to help him keep the belt. Thought both men did well and the finish wasn't overbooked, rather exciting in a way. Marked for the pedigree and enjoyed plenty of other stuff (callback to the RKO spot, superplex, etc.) *** 1/2

Neville vs. Barrett - *** 1/4
Ambrose v. Harper - FUN
Sheamus vs. Ziggler - *** 3/4 (really loved the work here, MOTN)
Cesaro & Kidd vs. New Day - *** 1/2

Gonna have to rewatch Cena/Rusev and Reigns/Show to give a final rating. No way Reigns/Show only gets one star though. I had way too much fun with Big Show.  Really enjoyed the show as a whole. A lot of fun (especially the first hour) and nothing I'd actively call "bad".


----------



## Paul Rudd (Oct 23, 2010)

Cena/Rusev, Reigns/Show and Orton/Rollins were all pretty average unfortunately, each made worse by a bad finish.

edit - X post from the Reigns vs Show thread:

I'm warming up to Reigns, but I thought that match was a fucking snooze fest. The only time it really peaked my interest was when Show chokeslammed Roman through the tables on the outside. They got me there, I really though Reigns might lose. 

Other than that it was a mix of a predictable Reigns match and a predictable last man standing match. Reigns got all his shit in (punch, punch, punch, spear through barricade) and the finish could be seen a mile away. I really hate that trapping someone is now the standard finish for a LMS match, it's just so lazy. I really fkn hate it. 

That being said I thought they both played their respective roles well. Roman was a likeable babyface and Show was a good heel. I think Roman is coming along really well at the moment, if they keep him in the midcard fighting for respect, then I think he will be ready for the title by next 'Mania.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Barrett/Neville: ***3/4
Ambrose/Harper: N/A
Ziggler/Sheamus: ***
Cesaro and Kidd/The New Day: ****
Cena/ Rusev: 1/2*
Naomi/Nikki: 1/2*
Show/Reigns: DUD
Rollins/Orton: Didn't watch

Show/Reigns was absolutely abysmal. It was nothing but an extremely slow spotfest (the worst kind of spotfest there is). Reigns' streak of good PPV matches ends when he gets a not-great opponent. Go figure.

Didn't feel like watching the main event, if a lot of people say it was great I'll give it a shot, but otherwise I'm probably not going to bother. 

Barrett/Neville was really great. I'm disappointed we didn't get Barrett/Bryan, and tbh I wasn't expecting much out of Barrett/Neville but the two really delivered. I'd say Neville's best match so far on the main roster, which considering who he's faced is pretty shocking. I just loved this match though, and Barrett's been on a roll himself. Had a great match with Cena, then a really good Superstars match with Swagger this week, and then this match with Neville. Fantastic couple of weeks for him. 

However, that wasn't even my MOTN, as Cesaro/Kidd vs. New Day stole the show... and they actually did. I wasn't expecting much out of this match but it was awesome. All the guys had great chemistry, Cesaro and Kidd working as the faces was a very nice change of pace, and the crowd reacted appropriately to everything. Kudos to all the men involved, they absolutely blew away my expectations. :clap

Very enjoyable first half of the show, the last half was absolute shit though (save Rollins/Orton which I haven't seen yet).


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I actually liked the LMS match. 

I'm on the cage match now. The show has honestly had a tough time holding my attention despite the good matches.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Really didn't care for much on this show, I'll need to rewatch tag title match I was pretty distracted for it


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Barrett/Neville: ***1/2
Ambrose/Harper: can't rate
Sheamus/Ziggler: **3/4
Tag titles: ***1/2
Cena/Rusev: **
Nikki/Naomi: skip
Reigns/Show: ***1/2
Orton/Rollins: **3/4

I guess. I was so disinterested throughout, but I liked Reigns/Show, the tag title match and the pre-show match. Fuck cage matches. Seriously, I hate them. Orton/Rollins was good, but then, as usual, it became overbooked and the cage was irrelevant with all that Kane bullshit. I also hate any match that requires tapping all four turnbuckles, but Cena/Rusev aren't really clicking.

Like I said, I was so disinterested throughout despite the solid matches. I think my interest in the product is waning more than I thought.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'll tell you what, I thought Orton/Rollins in the cage was better than HHH/Brock and a hell of a lot better than Cena/Wyatt.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

really hate how cage matches have the most interference lol


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

SaviorBeeRad™;48159618 said:


> really hate how cage matches have the most interference lol


Ha, it is pretty ridiculous and ironic now that I think about it. They've even ruined Hell in a Cell matches by having constant interference or a screwy ending to each one.

I'm attending Payback in 3 weeks and I get to see an I Quit match... with John Cena. That'll be interesting to say the least. Hopefully we get a blowoff with Orton & Rollins instead of Rollins vs. Reigns. In a dream world, they run Bryan vs. Neville for the IC Title. :mark:

@The Rabid Wolverine, where you at man? Our Wizards puttin in work today. Clean sweep! We The North became We The Swept!!! Bring on the Hawks!


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

admiremyclone said:


> Enjoyed reading the discussion over the last few pages about Japanese stuff. I watched Kobashi/Misawa '03 last night and enjoyed it quite a bit.
> 
> Can anyone recommend just 10 matches that are unmissable from Japan? Don't care which era they're from, don't care if they're singles or tag matches, just want to get a taste for the cream of the crop. I want hot crowds, guys throwing bombs, great stories being told etc. The REALLY good stuff.
> 
> Hope that isn't too difficult of a request!



You've got enough on your plate so I'll give you a couple outside of the obvious 80s/90s recs people will drop.


*Jun Akiyama Vs Mitsuharu Misawa (27/02/2000 AJPW)*


Spoiler: match review



Despite not seeing any Akiyama matches from earlier in his career, I still had exceptionally high expectations for this. Despite that, however, this match lived up and surpassed anything I could have honestly expected. Every move here has a purpose, and nothing is wasted or filler outside of their respective target spots. Akiyama, especially, works Misawa’s neck like the god of wrestling and is relentless in his barrage of heavy-hitting work. Misawa, of course, is no slouch, either, and delivers a great foil in the moments of Akiyama not being in control. Almost surprisingly, for myself, at least, this was Akiyama’s shining ground and he worked so unbelievably great here. Like I’ve stated, I’ve not watched much of his non-contemporary work, and this may be testament to this, but I cannot think of a match in which Akiyama delivers a performance anywhere near as good as this. He works his control spots superbly, and is a great seller for Misawa’s own comebacks and controls. 
Ultimately, this was simply phenomenal match that should end up in the top 5 once I’ve completed this project. If it doesn't, then this decade would have been an absolute treat to have witnessed.




*Genichiro Tenryu & Masa Fuchi v Toshiaki Kawada & Nobutaka Araya (30/06/2001 AJPW)*


Spoiler: match review



Fuck Drake, Araya started at the bottom. If there’s one parallel to life that this match has, it’s that Araya is that kid in school who, finally sick of being bullied, tries to stand up for himself in a rather ineffectual way. It’s fitting, too, that Kawada plays bigger brother and lashes out, only when need be, without taking the moment away from Araya. Tenryu, thus, is the asshole at the centre of the bullying and cracks Araya with a vicious blow that opens up his eye in nasty fashion only to work as a phenomenal ground for Araya to work off of and solidify himself as an exceptional character in this narrative of awesome. Fuchi is pretty much a geriatric at this point, and you can see in how Kawada barely even lands his strikes upon the old man, but he works in his secondary role to Tenryu as best he can and that’s all that this match requires of him. Everything hanged, almost solely, on both Tenryu and Araya’s performances. As great, too, as Tenryu’s facials are, Araya blasts this out the park with his shrivelled face that looks like a bad mix of pain, anger and a man trying to fight back his tears. Absolutely beautiful.




*Terry Funk Vs Jumbo Tsuruta (11/06/1976 AJPW)*


Spoiler: match review



Match of the year? Match of the decade? Match of the forever?! Maybe. Of course I couldn't help myself in mirroring a Choshu match with, arguably, one of Funk's best matches. I'd also like to rescind my statement that Funk isn't the greatest wrestler. Perhaps it isn't in sheer volume of great matches, but in terms of performance I'd have no other above him. He could work absolutely anything that was given to him. Whether he was heel or face, in America or Japan, he had the crowd eating out the palm of his hands. The same also applies to his wrestling style. Terry ranged from a good technical prospect to a downright phenomenal brawler and a standout in a Southern American scene that was choked full of talented workers. Funk could sell and take a hold like almost no other and layered them with his own personal touches and charisma. Hell, he even shined as tag talent as well as a singles wrestler. When the greats say they've forgotten more about wrestling than the scrub will ever know, for Funk, it's rather he's retired more times than they've had good matches. That's not even a knock against him, either. Sorry, Choshu but you still get the BAMF award.

As for the match, it's set-up as a teacher vs trainer bout, so you should, already, anticipate great wrestling and counters throughout. I'm fully aware that Dory already wrestled a similar scene with Tsuruta before (considering both Funks trained Jumbo) but I have yet to witness it. Perhaps I shouldn't, as both men work the story so perfectly here. The entire thirty odd minutes is a game of one-upmanship. This is nothing about throwing in your own tried and tested offence in gaining control but being put into a hold only to escape and throw it onto your opponent as a massive "fuck you". The contention for superiority is peppered with brilliance within the first hold as Funk, as I've noted prior, works an armbar in only the manner he knows just for Jumbo to make use of his strength, counter the hold into his own and throw Funk around as if he's a ragdoll without once letting go. Their own safety be damned, too, as they took a nasty spill to the outside simply because neither man would relinquish their hold and secede their illusion of being the alpha male. Perhaps as a precursor to the Kerry Von Erich/Tsuruta title bout from the following decade, both men accept a stalemate not with reluctance and disappointment but with determination and gear-up into a fast-paced exchange that leads Jumbo to attaining the first fall with a leapfrog into sunset flip.

Sustaining the trainer/trainee narrative, Jumbo's win through agility and youthful advantage would see Funk making his comeback through being able to capitalise upon Tsuruta's inexperience. It's because of this, thus, that the fight for control now encapsulated each opponent's requirement to set a designated pace. Despite his agility, the quicker match proved to be Jumbo's undoing as he had to predict Funk's attack while thinking up potential counters and momentum changers on the fly, something that most probably came naturally to the veteran at this point in his career. Despite this, the need to one-up his trainer would prove too much for Tsuruta once he tasted defeat in the second fall. As testament to the work of Jumbo, he was using moves from the middle of the first round (ten plus minutes earlier) in playing up the role. Classy character building, too, in having Jumbo set himself up into the abdominal stretch by Funk as if to say the rolling cradle was such a fluke pin that he'd put himself back into danger purely to prove the vet wrong. As always, however, pride and ego without fail come before a fall. Funk's ability to keep a faster pace in allowing himself to pick up on Jumbo's weak points, as well as Jumbo being too preoccupied in bettering Funk's moves than actually taking ownership of his window-periods thusly played as the climax to their tale. The leapfrog that gained Jumbo the win in the first round, was countered into a throat-first drop onto the rope and a deciding win for Funk in the third. C'est la vie, and life is fucking great.




*Toshiaki Kawada Vs Gen'ichiro Tenryu (28/10/2000 AJPW)*


Spoiler: match review



To be fair, he did have two big roles within the space of this month to allow for the matches he had but, to his credit, Kawada was still on fire in both and more of the reason why two phenomenal matches came so close together. The story of Tenryu’s return to AJPW, following having left a younger Kawada’s side mid-feud against Tsuruta, and the story of role model vs emulator were intertwined so beautifully here. The vicious kicks of Kawada, which have brought on victory over countless others before, would be met with Tenryu’s contempt almost as if the old man was disgusted in how light Kawada worked. It would be a reaction that would cost him, in a sense, when Kawada busted his nose and, thus, painted his face in crimson blood in the process. I’m dismayed, though, in Tenryu’s leg work leading to literally nothing. I’m not one to expect the finish to come as a compliment to said work, but I do expect the continuity to maintain some level of believability. It was obvious that Tenryu applied his submissions as a means of negating Kawada’s kicks yet, almost as soon as Kawada freed himself, he was back to using his legs. Still, in the larger picture, it was but a drop in the ocean.





_Please_ watch the Araya match. There's *Sakurabu/Nakamura* from 2013 (that played similar to Lesnar/Cena in a MMA vs company boy feel) and *Ibushi/Nakamura* from this year I'd recommend watching if you want to try out something more recent. If you need a match video link I'll give you one.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Pretty sure Bryan won't be working Payback.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Neville/Barrett was MOTN for me. Shame that it was on the pre-show.

I feel that Barrett tends to raise his game when he knows that he's with a quality performer. Competitive instincts definitely kick in, and it's a joy to watch. Thought that whole match flowed very well.

I ff'ed during the tag match, up until the part where Xavier was like "why are you booing us?! We're winning!!!" lol. I watched from then on, which seemed like most of the match, right?

If so, I didn't think that it was anything special. It was fun, but not anything I'd classify as really good.

Cena/Rusev was surprisingly abysmal. Was really looking forward to that, but it was the softest worked match ever. I don't know what it is, but Rusev is usually extra careful with Cena. EXCEPT in their RAW segments. When he did the Alabama Slamma, it was the most gentle looking slam ever. 

And neither of them really used the chain as a weapon, except for those very, very, obviously soft hits from Rusev.

The last few minutes made me lol, so that was fun. I wish the whole match was booked cleverly like that.

Not thrilled with Rusev continuing on the Cena Burial tour at Payback.

Harper/Ambrose was fun for what it was. I wish we could have seen more brutality, honestly. Those are two people who would have no problem delivering that.

The ending of Sheamus/Ziggler was fun, but the match under-delivered for me. It was the one I was most excited about from a wrestling perspective, but it was kind of meh.

Naomi's entrance was great and a highlight for me, lol. I like when someone changes their entire demeanor drastically like that. 

Thought Show/Reigns was fun. I can see a lot of the regs in this thread loving that match.

Was Show pulling an HBK style intentional oversell during that rope/ball shot, btw? The way delayed & completely OTT screaming, seemed like he was intentionally trying to make Reigns come off like a goober, by making it look as phony and ridiculous as possible ('cause of the heat with him & Reigns). It seemed to me like Reigns was genuinely laughing & knew what Show was trying to do, because at first he had a "wtf" look.

I will have to re-watch the cage match some other time, but I was kind of zoning out during the first eight minutes or so. I need to see if it was just me being tired, or if really was not good. Reading what was on the last page, it may have just been because Rollins was getting squashed. It picked up during the J&J and pedigree parts, and I knew that it would be an overbooked mess, so that didn't bother me so much. Their WM match was definitely much, much, better. 

I wrote this in another thread:


> Rollins was good in this match, btw. I could tell that he was working hard. I thought his selling, particularly, was great. Little subtleties like trying to fight and wiggle out of the Pedigree. Most people don't do that.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i totally forgot about extreme rules and woke up like 2 hours or so after it finished :lol (3pm here when i woke up )

any good, worth checking out?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Well that match was surprisingly great. Best that Barrett has looked in a long time.





Jack Evans 187 said:


> Ha, it is pretty ridiculous and ironic now that I think about it. They've even ruined Hell in a Cell matches by having constant interference or a screwy ending to each one.
> 
> I'm attending Payback in 3 weeks and I get to see an I Quit match... with John Cena. That'll be interesting to say the least. Hopefully we get a blowoff with Orton & Rollins instead of Rollins vs. Reigns. In a dream world, they run Bryan vs. Neville for the IC Title. :mark:
> 
> @The Rabid Wolverine, where you at man? Our Wizards puttin in work today. Clean sweep! We The North became We The Swept!!! Bring on the Hawks!



You guys know what I like, is there anything I should bother watching from Extreme Rules? I've got a good catalog of AJPW stuff to watch but I'll put it on hold for a bit if there is something you think is worth watching from last night (ie anything you'd give ***1/2+ to)

P.S. Toronto- WE THE SWEPT. HAH! John Wall, Paul Pierce, Brad Beal, and Marcin Gortat just collectively kicked Toronto's teeth in, what a pure joy to watch as a long suffering Wizards fans :mark::mark:


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Only bothered to watch the tag titles match, awesome stuff, ***3/4.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> You guys know what I like, is there anything I should bother watching from Extreme Rules? I've got a good catalog of AJPW stuff to watch but I'll put it on hold for a bit if there is something you think is worth watching from last night (ie anything you'd give ***1/2+ to)
> 
> P.S. Toronto- WE THE SWEPT. HAH! John Wall, Paul Pierce, Brad Beal, and Marcin Gortat just collectively kicked Toronto's teeth in, what a pure joy to watch as a long suffering Wizards fans :mark::mark:


I think you will like the pre-show match, especially with Barrett working stiffer than usual. Simple, but solid and the crowd was hot for it. Opener was kinda fun and very Hardcore Title-ish. I don't think you need to watch Ziggler/Sheamus, but Sheamus is so comfortable in this role of his and the match itself was not bad. Skip the post-match theatrics, although I liked how they utilized classic territory tactics.

MOTN without a doubt was the tag team title match. The New Day are a blast to watch in this new role of theirs. Lots of great crowd interaction from both teams and there were no gaps in action. Cesaro and Kidd played the makeshift face team so well, and The New Day cooperated with the ring generals. Crowd was hottest for that match and the Cesaro moments were all awesome. Skip the rest of the show from that point onward, because all we got afterwards was nonsense.

Yeesh, what the Wizards did to the Raptors was equivalent to what Scott Steiner did to those four cruiserweights. Props to Paul Pierce for talking all the trash in the world and actually backing it up.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Chris, you should definitely watch the first hour of the show (the preshow too). It was just nonstop fun with a hot crowd. I'll recommend Sheamus vs. Ziggler to anyone. Sheamus was perfect in his trash talking, big man role and Ziggler is a wonderful underdog while the crowd ate up every small opportunity he got throughout the match. Totally loved that. Tag Title match was way better than it had any right to be. Hoping Cesaro wins this King of the Ring Tournament.

You should also watch Reigns vs. Show just so you can laugh at goofy ass Big Show throughout the whole thing.  I seemed to have been the only one who enjoyed the cage match, so it's understandable if you skip that.

I personally think everyone is being pretty harsh on the last half of the show. Cena/Rusev wasn't very good and the Divas match was kinda confusing as far the face/heel dynamic goes but I had so much fun watching last night that I'd probably say the event was better as a whole compared to Wrestlemania.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Thanks guys I'll check out Barrett/Neville, Cesaro/Kidd vs New Day, and Sheamus/Ziggler. What about Ambrose/Harper? I would have thought that match would be the motn?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Thanks guys I'll check out Barrett/Neville, Cesaro/Kidd vs New Day, and Sheamus/Ziggler. What about Ambrose/Harper? I would have thought that match would be the motn?


I don't wanna spoil anything, but just watch the first hour (Ambrose/Harper was the opener) and you'll see why it's impossible to say anything more about it other than "FUN."


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Okay, back by popular demand (yes, all three of you!)...it's the return of *HONEY 'DON'T CALL ME HYACINTH' BUCKET* REVIEWS *E-C-DUB BARELY LEGAL*!

I can't be fucked to find my last installment of this monolithic review, but it should be in this thread somewhere, look it up. WAIT HERE IT IS. We had The Eliminators defeat Brother D-Vad and Brother Bubbly Ray in a horrific opening crapfest, and Rob Van Darn It defeating Lance Shitstorm despite his never ending catalogue of BRUTAL FUCKING CHAIR SHOTS.

So, we continue...it's time for some flying Japs! Yeah, fuck you.

Why is that fat chubby ball boy in the ring? Oh shit it's the ref! 

*MICHINOKUUUUUUU PRO WRASSLIN PRESENTS: DA BRUE WORLD ORDER* featuring *I BEAT TRIPLE H*, *GENTLEMEN'S WASH TAIO* and *PENIS TOGO* vs. *WHO IS THIS GUY WHAT THE FUCK*, *THE GREAT SASQUATCH* and *GRANDAD HAMADA*.
The chaps from Kaientai come out to the bWo music donning bWo shirts. The other guys come out to this horrendous mashup of bog standard lavatory music spliced with Southern country rock. What the fuck? Yes I know it's piped in music, but still, what the fuck? Well, this should be a doozy! When all six get in the ring, the fans throw their kaleidoscopic bog roll into the ring because they're full of shit. Oh sorry no it's customary, of course. Them wacky ECW fans and their patronising ways! Gran Hamada looks like a Japanese Bill Dundee. Wow, this canvas is really bouncy! The three bWo-ites triple team Great Sasuke mercilessly. Styles quips that Mens Teioh is nicknamed 'Terry Boy'...I presume because he looks like Terri Runnels. Yakushiji is dressed like a goddamn Power Ranger. Teioh with some snug knees into his pretty little face. The actions starts to get fast and frivolous although Yakushiji almost makes a tit out of himself when he flips backwards into the ring following a hurricanrana. Hamada is in there and he bosses everybody about like a pissed off uncle. Styles is rattling off these guys achievements like bingo numbers. YAY MORE FLIPPY FLOPPY BULLSHIT. This time though it's fast and flows much nicer than previous bouts. Niiiiiice head scissors on the outside by Yakushiji on Teioh. In a bemusing spot, all three...well, babyfaces I guess...get in there and reign down punches on TAKA with all the zest and panache of three students trying to Sharpie cocks on a passed out drunken jock. 'Great triple team' says Joey. Not fucking likely! TAKA gets out of Sasuke's Boston Crab by turning in all sorts of directions and punting him in the back of the head. Good stuff. In a GREAT spot, the three bWo-ites pose over Great Sasuke with Dick Togo posing on his back. Hard to explain but that was fucking great! Do you see this Vince? 'Yeah dammit, wait til Russo gets a hold of em!' The triple teaming on Sasuke is just brutal. Spinning toe hold! TAKA with a VICIOUS brain buster on the Power Ranger. Daaaaayum. Fuck me, the triple teaming by the future Kaientai is off the frickin' page! It's a joy to watch. 'Didn't you hear, dammit?!? When they get to the World Wrussling Federation I'll show them how to be a star!' Oh piss off Vince you silly old cunt. Yakushiji is being dismantled out there. By the way I'm describing this it sounds as if all the moves are smooth and swift, but there are a few 'what the fuck was that?' moments. Case in point, the bWo-ntai look to hip toss Sasuke into the waiting arms of Mens Teioh, but all four of them manage to fuck it up. Ah well, you tried! Sasuke almost bludgeons himself by moonsaulting TAKA on the outside. The bodies are flyin' now Maggle!! The poor old ref looks fucking shattered lolloping about out there in that sweatbox. The action is non-stop now and pretty great. TAKA and Sasuke now in the home stretch. Michinoku Driver but nooooooo! Everybody is fucking flying and I can't keep up. Sasuke finally ends it by hitting TAKA with the Dragon Suplex for the WIIIIIIIIIIIN. Oh shit, it's that FUCKING MUSIC AGAIN. Great match, and we'd see the majority of these guys in the WWF later in the year and the next. Things were looking up for th-'THAT'S WHAT YOU THINK DAMMIT!'. Vince...nevermind. ***3/4

We cut straight to Stevie Richards in a greyscale promo and he mutters to himself quietly. This ain't the jokey, goofy Big Stevie Cool but the intense, angsty Richards. While he speaks the bWo music plays over the top and it's very distracting. He says he'll beat Terry Funk and co. and win DA TITLE. Then the screen goes back to colour, Blue Meanie shows up and orders a kebab, and Stevie continues to look pissed off.

UP NEXT: Douglas vs. Pitbull II! Ah I'll do it later...

Stay tuned!


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Just rewatched Triple H vs Jericho @Fully Loaded. Still a 5 star match for me.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Definitely the best LMS match and one of both guys' best matches (maybe their best, would have to think about it) but not a ***** match and I tend to be pretty generous with the amount of five shurikens I throw out.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Re-watched a few matches, did reviews on a few of them. Will keep them under spoilers tags for those who haven't seen the show yet since... well, I spoil a few things. Specifically, Barrett/Neville, Ambrose/Harper, Ziggler/Sheamus, New Day/Cesaro and Kidd, and Reigns/Show.



Spoiler: Review



*Bad News Barrett vs. Adrian Neville*

Disappointing we didn’t get Barrett/Bryan, but Barrett/Neville more than made up for it. Barrett’s promo before the match was awesome. Chicago was pro-Barrett on his entrance, but with one promo, and Neville as his opponent, they were completely against him.

Barrett’s work through the match was great. Kept things at a very nice pace. I loved how he cut off Neville’s dive early on and how stiff he looked against him. The only thing that was fucked up was Barrett’s kick when Neville was hanging on the ropes near the apron… it was a pretty bad miss. Outside of that though, Barrett was spot on and looked vicious. That big boot on Neville was one of the best I’ve seen in a long time. Neville sold it to perfection.

Neville does his usual thing, which is still exciting. Gets all his moves in and even shows a bit of power with a great German Suplex pin. I really liked the finishing stretch but Barrett needed this win. Then again, Neville couldn’t really lose either. Then again, Neville’s an upper mid-carder at best, maybe with a stint in the main event and Barrett is top heel material. Then again, WWE will never let Barrett live up to his potential and so maybe it’s just best they have Neville get the win over him. Then again, Barrett/Bryan would’ve been great and Barrett losing to Bryan would at least be better than him losing to a new guy in WWE. Then again… then again, then again then again then again…

… fuck it. It was an excellent match. Neville’s best on the main roster yet and Barrett’s best this year so far.

***3/4

*Dean Ambrose vs. Luke Harper*

I’m going to try and just rate this based on what happened before they split, because there wasn’t much that happened when they came back.

Match went really well. Just two crazy guys beating the shit out of each other and I loved it. The weapon usage was great, and it was all around a fun brawl. They then left. They come back an hour later and Ambrose wins. Ambrose finally wins on a Pay Per View! Holy shit, it took him facing a jobber like Harper but he finally did it. Where does he go now, though? Hard match to rate, it was a very fun match with some great character work and exactly what you’d expect from two crazies. It didn’t move mountains, but I enjoyed it.

**1/2

*Dolph Ziggler vs. Sheamus*

Two great workers going at it, so this match should be great, right? Well… it certainly wasn’t bad, but I felt like they didn’t get enough time. Ziggler didn’t get in nearly enough offense, and Sheamus was just okay controlling the match. His heel work was fine but a bit too much talking and I think in general he’s been over-doing it in that aspect since turning heel. No doubt he’s enjoying it though and the heat that comes with it. 

Match gets a bit boring mid-way through, but picks up again at the end. I get what they were doing with Ziggler constantly rolling up Sheamus and it’s a fine story to tell. Ziggler can’t knock Sheamus down easily, let alone pin him easily, so he has to resort to roll-ups, school boys, inside cradles, etc. Eventually it pays off, although it wasn’t the smoothest finish of the night, it works. Ziggler wins but Sheamus forces him to kiss his ass anyway. Good heel work there, just wish they’d use that kind of booking for a guy like Barrett. Had he lost to Neville via a roll-up and then proceeded to kick his ass after the match and lay him out that would’ve been great. Instead it feels like Sheamus is the only heel that gets that kind of booking. Although he did only return a month ago, so we’ll see where he is a few months down the line. He’s obviously being protected now.

In any event, good match. Liked it more on first watch, but still good stuff.

**3/4

*Cesaro and Kidd vs. The New Day*

“STOP! WHY!? WHAT DID WE DO? WHAT DID WE DO? WE’RE WINNING” –Xavier Woods in response to “New Day Sucks” chants. :lmao

What a match this was. Loved it just as much on second viewing as I did on first. These two teams had a match at Royal Rumble and that one was very meh. This one? Fantastic shit right here. Starting with the smaller quick guys like Kidd and Kofi leading to the power guys of Cesaro and Big E is classic booking 101. And it totally works because Cesaro and Big E aren’t your typical power guys. Both guys, especially Big E, are very agile. Couple that with Cesaro being a beastly ring general, and these two were magic together. 

The pacing of the match was quick throughout, and they did a great job of taking a match most probably didn’t care for, and making it a show stealer. Had your dive from Kidd and great near-falls on both ends. I thought the match was over after Big E flipped Cesaro on the outside and hit his finisher with Kofi in the ring on Kidd. Cesaro coming back right after that shocked me, but it was more or less your average bump so it works without being too ridiculous.

The finishing stretch was good, and I’m cool with New Day winning. I’m enjoying them as heels, works a lot better and feels more natural. This was pretty easily MOTN, with only Barrett/Neville coming close. Top 5 match of the year so far too.

****


*Big Show vs. Roman Reigns*

This match seems to be getting a lot of love for being a lot better than anyone thought it would be, even so that a good number of people are calling it MOTN. On first watch, this match was absolutely terrible. Going through this again I’m trying to pick up on what those people saw in this match. If it’s just a spotfest and the people liking it are people who love spotfests, that doesn’t do much for me. Don’t get me wrong, it might be fun, but when I call a match “good” I try to be as objective as possible. Of course, it all comes down to opinion and there will always be some bias, but there’s a difference between that and just having fun watching the match. Fun is just a part of the match in the grand scheme of things, although it is a necessity for a match to be great.

Match starts with both guys punching each other, Big Show knocks Reigns down and… we’re already starting with the counts. Reigns gets up, Big Show knocks him down, the counting starts again. It’s basically this, rinse and repeat, the whole match. This makes the match move at such a horrible pace and utilizing the counts like this early on does no favors for anyone, since the crowd’s not going to get into it this early in the match since there’s no way a match like this ends early (unfortunately).

The only thing I took note of in people’s praise of the match was the psychology of Big Show in destroying the weapons Reigns’ was trying to use early on. Reigns brings out a table, Big Show puts it back under the ring. Reigns sets up a table, Big Show breaks it. Reigns tries using the kendo stick, Big Show breaks it. Big Show knows he doesn’t need weapons and is removing them the best he can so Reigns can’t use them for an advantage. Smart stuff here and great heel work by Big Show. This alone brings the match up a bit for me.

As far Reigns and weapons go, he had some weak shots on Show with the chair and the kendo stick mid-match. They didn’t look good at all imo. Safety first I suppose, but that took away from the match for me. Reigns offense in general was kind of weak… for a guy who’s billed as a powerhouse. I can go on and on about why I hate Reigns’ being called a powerhouse, he just flat-out isn’t. Sure he’s a strong guy, but he doesn’t look the part of a powerhouse or play the part either. The Samoan drop through the table was weak. And when he tossed Big Show off the top rope, that looked all Big Show just doing a flip. 

Also the other thing that took away from the match on first and second watch is there was no suspense. Big Show does the knock-out punch, his ultimate finisher, and Reigns gets up at 8. Big Show sends Reigns through two tables, and I never thought for a second that was it. Worst of all, Reigns doesn’t show any signs of life until the count of 8, and then he’s up a second later. 

All in all, I stand by my general summary of the match. It’s a slow paced spotfest, the worst kind of spotfest there is. However, the heel work by Big Show with the weapons makes me appreciate the match a little bit more than I did before. The match could’ve ended with just Reigns spearing Big Show through the table, the burying him under it does nothing for me. Match is still incredibly overrated on here, but that may change over time. 

*3/4


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Top half of the bracket is stacked. Loads of sweet match combinations, but I'll go with a Sheamus vs. Ziggler prediction in the final. Mainly because I wanna see another match between them and I'll take some more KING SHEAMUS. Ambrose/Ziggler would be cool too.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Neville vs Ambrose would be :mark:


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Neville/Harper & Ziggler/Barrett are the matches I'm really excited about. Not sure if Sheamus/Ambrose's styles mesh well.

Since the finals are going to be a network exclusive, I wonder if the WWE will crown someone that smarks like, to cater to them.

I could see it going to Sheamus, though, to continue on with his arrogant heel role.

Stardust is the one it could really help revive if they actually did something with it, but they don't care about him.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Sheamus & Dean had a U.S. Title match last year on Smackdown that a lot of people loved (and I still haven't seen ). I think it'll be a great first round match if they work it like the Ziggler match last night. Sheamus has been wonderful since his comeback.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

No King Sheamus anymore please. We need King Barrett.

Although it does seem like an obvious set-up for Sheamus/Ziggler finale with Sheamus going over and having another King of the Ring tournament wasted. 

Neville/Harper, Barrett/Ziggler and Ambrose/Sheamus all have a ton of potential. Raw should be a good show provided those matches have enough time to be made great. 10-15 minutes each should do..


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Some potentially great matches in that line up. Hope Ambrose or Barrett win but sadly thnk it will be Sheamus.

And yeah, Ambrose/Sheamus on Smackdown last year was excellent.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I think you will like the pre-show match, especially with Barrett working stiffer than usual. Simple, but solid and the crowd was hot for it. Opener was kinda fun and very Hardcore Title-ish. I don't think you need to watch Ziggler/Sheamus, but Sheamus is so comfortable in this role of his and the match itself was not bad. Skip the post-match theatrics, although I liked how they utilized classic territory tactics.
> 
> MOTN without a doubt was the tag team title match. The New Day are a blast to watch in this new role of theirs. Lots of great crowd interaction from both teams and there were no gaps in action. Cesaro and Kidd played the makeshift face team so well, and The New Day cooperated with the ring generals. Crowd was hottest for that match and the Cesaro moments were all awesome. Skip the rest of the show from that point onward, because all we got afterwards was nonsense.
> 
> Yeesh, what the Wizards did to the Raptors was equivalent to what Scott Steiner did to those four cruiserweights. Props to Paul Pierce for talking all the trash in the world and actually backing it up.





Jack Evans 187 said:


> Chris, you should definitely watch the first hour of the show (the preshow too). It was just nonstop fun with a hot crowd. I'll recommend Sheamus vs. Ziggler to anyone. Sheamus was perfect in his trash talking, big man role and Ziggler is a wonderful underdog while the crowd ate up every small opportunity he got throughout the match. Totally loved that. Tag Title match was way better than it had any right to be. Hoping Cesaro wins this King of the Ring Tournament.
> 
> You should also watch Reigns vs. Show just so you can laugh at goofy ass Big Show throughout the whole thing.  I seemed to have been the only one who enjoyed the cage match, so it's understandable if you skip that.
> 
> I personally think everyone is being pretty harsh on the last half of the show. Cena/Rusev wasn't very good and the Divas match was kinda confusing as far the face/heel dynamic goes but I had so much fun watching last night that I'd probably say the event was better as a whole compared to Wrestlemania.


So here goes...

I'm watching the Tag Titles match, and 30 seconds in I'm already planning the post I'm gonna send you guys bitching about you reccomending this match to me. You all know me well enough by now, you know the #1 thing I HATE in a match is when it doesn't feel organic, doesn't feel real. When I get the sense that 2 guys are in the ring "playing wrestler", just mimicking cool moves and spots they have seen others do without any real effort and meaning behind it, that's when I turn a match off. Kofi Kingston is the single worst offender of this, of just flying around and doing a bunch of choreographed nonsense because it looks like something a real pro wrestler would do, instead of just going in there and wrestling. I even came up with a name for what I thought this tag title match was gonna be "pseudo-entertaining choreographed nonsense". That's what I was gonna call this match after watching the first 30 seconds of Kofi and Tyson doing that garbage I hold in such contempt. 

Boy, would I ever have been wrong. I'm glad I sucked it up and kept watching instead of reaching for my iPad to come bitch to you two fellas. This was awesome. Yes there was plenty of Kofi garbage, but it was background noise at best, totally ignorable. This match was about to go right off the rails until Cesaro, a real pro wrestler, came in and did some pro fucking wrestling. There was some choreographed stuff sure but man it was effective and executed especially well. If it wasn't for the shitty as fuck shit shit camera men/Kevin Dunn showing they know all the big spots by always being in the right place, those big Cesaro spots would have come off even better than they already did.

I also have to say, I was about to bitch about how New Day will never be a good heel tag team because they can't be effective heels in the ring, and again I would have been wrong, dead wrong. Xavier Woods helps out a ton in this regard, but Big E especially is able to carry the heel slack generated by Kofi being the clueless twat that he is. Big E is very capable being the heavy of a heel team, he needs to keep up with the bad mouth, stop leaving his feet quite so much, and just in general watch a lot of Mark Henry. I understand Big E is a phenomenal athlete and he wants to show off, but he's a heel, he needs to make it mean something when a baby face finally takes him off his feet. He needs to learn to sell, sell, sell, THEN take the big bump. That spear through the ropes is impressive as hell, but that's a baby face move. He needs to switch that up so he isn't take the bump with the baby face. 

Tyson Kidd was serviceable as a baby face in this match, nowhere near good but not as awful as I expected him to be. The formula where he takes the beating only to get Cesaro for the hot tag will only work if he gets better at selling WITHOUT dying, picking the right moments for the come back and using better facials to emote the pain he is in.

If you couldn't already tell, this was the first time I've seen either team wrestle, so those were just the things I noticed watching them in action for the first time. Overall, damn fine match I enjoyed it. ***1/2

I also watched Ziggler/Sheamus. Serviceable match no doubt, but these guys need more time to really tell a story, and Dolph needs to get better at selling I'm finally starting to tire of his flailing and overselling of everything, while also totally no selling so many things as soon as he gets back on offense. He needs to take notes from Cesaro here, Cesaro is so good at REGISTERING a move was done without overselling it's effects, and then if something big enough was done he keeps selling even while he's doing his impressive offense. It might be taking a moment to shake the cobwebs loose, or loosening up a joint, small, subtle things that a real master salesmen does. Dolph and subtle just don't go together and that needs fixing. The match was just there for me, nothing special nor memorable. I want to see a 20 minute match between these two guys to see what they can really do. **3/4

On to Barrett/Neville. Then I'll look around for Harper/Ambrose.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

Flux said:


> Definitely the best LMS match and one of both guys' best matches (maybe their best, would have to think about it) but not a ***** match and I tend to be pretty generous with the amount of five shurikens I throw out.


For me, their best match was the Hell in a Cell. I don't remember why but didn't get much into that LMS, for me the best match with that stip is Cena/Umaga.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

*Re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues &amp; Bobby Eaton*

I dunno, I thought the opening bit with Kofi trying to shut up the "New Day sucks" chants with a bad homage to lucha libre was perversely entertaining.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

*Re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues &amp; Bobby Eaton*



Rah said:


> I dunno, I thought the opening bit with Kofi trying to shut up the "New Day sucks" chants with a bad homage to lucha libre was perversely entertaining.


I was talking about the "wrestling" Kofi and Kidd were doing to start the match. I know it seems silly to nit pick how 2 guys start a match, after all they have to do SOMETHING to get things going, but those dragon screw arm whip/reversal and the silly "chain wrestling" they did on the mat is just about my least favoriite way you can possibly chose to start a match. It's not even wrestling, it's just doing moves and counters because "that's what your supposed to do" when you wrestle. It's like Regal said on Jericho's podcast, one of the biggest problems guys on the roster have is they do things without knowing why they should or shouldn't be doing them. His example was perfect, when one guy whips another guy into the ropes, and the guy rebounds and comes back at him, and the guy that whipped him into the ropes DROPS DOWN to let the other guy run past him without making contact. Why the fuck would you ever actively try to avoid contact with a guy you just whipped into the ropes? It makes no sense. He pointed to Eddie Guerrero as the best guy for never doing things like this in a match, he said when Eddie would drop down, he did it like he was trying to trip the guy coming back at him, as the move was intended for when it was originally created. Nowadays no one is trying to trip anyone when they drop down, they aren't trying to do anything they have no idea why they are dropping down other than "that's what your supposed to do" because they see everyone else dropping down. 

It's the same thing with the Barrett/Neville match I just watched. Now granted, this was a pretty good match, but Barrett did several things throughout the match that really annoyed me. One of them was, he gave Neville this sick looking back breaker, then he immediately grabbed Neville and put him in a sleeper as a nominal rest hold. Wtf? You just injured your opponents back, if you want to put him in a hold to slow the pace why not do a Boston Crab or a Bow and Arrow, SOMETHING that affects his back? That's what so many guys on the roster do now, they do things just for the sake of doing them with no rhyme or reason to what would make sense if this were a real fight. I'm not saying they should only do realistic fighting moves, this isn't UFC or shoot style pro wrestling, very little pro wrestling stuff would ever work in a fight. I'm just saying you should try and do things that make sense and above all do them for a reason. Have a purpose behind whatever move you are doing. If your Wade Barrett and your wrestling "the man gravity forgot" in Neville, focus your attack on his legs, his torso, or even his head as that will affect his balance. And wherever you decide to focus your attack, do enough moves that affect that area so it can tell a story. Don't just do 1 move to his back, 1 to his head, and 1 to his legs. Put together several moves on an individual body part so Neville has something to sell, and so you have a story to tell. If by chance you get an opening later in the match and focus your attack somewhere else, fine then do that but when you switch your focus keep up with the new attack. 

Here I am, only 27 years old, and I already sound like a grumpy old man. Oh well. This is just what comes to mind when I watch a lot of the current talent wrestle, they have so much raw talent it's almost staggering I just wish they had people teaching them the art of selling and wrestling psychology more. What are these agents doing, anyway? Or is this some new Vince mandate "NO SELLING DAMMIT! AND STOP WASTING TIME DOING THINGS THAT MAKE SENSE NOBODY CARES ABOUT THAT CRAP! YOU ARE ONLY ALLOWED TO USE THESE 10 MOVES EVERY MATCH YOU DONT NEED ANYTHING ELSE!" :vince3


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Vince forbids quality selling, if Batista and Daniel Bryan are to be believed.

Regarding Big E's potential, I used to think that he should model himself after Henry. However, now I'm not so sure. Of course, there's always a lesson to be learned from Henry, especially when it comes to berating another wrestler. But Big E symbolizes how the paradigm has changed when it comes to what a bigger wrestler is supposed to do. The days of the Big Shows and Bundys are dead, and that's not a problem at all. Those guys aren't the prototypes anymore as fans just aren't awed by sheer size anymore, and although Big E is...big, he isn't tall and he's under 300 lbs.

Now don't take this in a wrong fashion, but I think the guy that Big E as well as other monsters in the modern wrestling environment such as Kevin Owens and Rusev should model themselves after is Lesnar. Yeah, we will never see another Lesnar ever again, let's get that out of the way. But Lesnar when he came in 2002 and dominated the likes of Big Show and Undertaker symbolized the new type of monster: the super-athlete (insert Rusev smiley). What made Brock so impressive wasn't just his size and strength, but it was also his quickness and agility for a guy his size. I remember in particular during the Eddie/Brock match, Tazz kept talking about how Brock not only had the size and power advantage, but he was also faster than Eddie, which is different from monsters like Big Show who didn't have that going for them.

Going back to my point, I would actually like Big E to continue moving on his feet although he doesn't have to bump as much as he does currently. Use his impressive agility to his advantage and allow him to do those spears and flying tackles and whatever other athletic moves he can do. Because having those strong guys that can also run with the cruiserweights is as impressive as it gets to me, and you might as well allow these guys to showcase their speed along with their strength. And that's not something you get necessarily from modeling yourself after Henry as much as I love him.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues &amp; Bobby Eaton*



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> YOU ARE ONLY ALLOWED TO USE THESE 10 MOVES EVERY MATCH YOU DONT NEED ANYTHING ELSE!" :vince3


I kind of feel like this is the case. No one seems to do more than their usual every match moves. In fact, it's to the point where these moves have to be performed. It wouldn't surprise me if these guys have to get moves approved beforehand, and if you do go out there and take risks, it could mean your job (unless of course you're in a certain position).

In Barrett's case, it wouldn't surprise me if Vince was yelling in the ref's ear "TELL BARRETT TO PUT A SLEEPER ON HIM!" While I'm sure there's a lot of moves that can be done, I think they're also careful in not repeating moves other guys do except the basic stuff like clotheslines, suplexes, etc. Barrett would probably have to have gone to Vince/management and made a request to be able to use a move as a follow-up to that backbreaker that targets the back. Don't think there's anything in Barrett's normal arsenal that would work in that case. And hell, he probably didn't even know he was facing Neville until late in the week the earliest, maybe not even until Sunday so he probably didn't have time to add anything. He's also not in that position where he can get away with doing stuff on the fly. 

At least that's how it feels anyway. It's a fucked up limiting system, but that's Vince nowadays for you. Everything has to be carefully done.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

So, am I the only one who thing Big E has such enormous tits that he can't be taken seriously?


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Reigns/Show LMS was great.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

*Re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues &amp; Bobby Eaton*



funnyfaces1 said:


> Vince forbids quality selling, if Batista and Daniel Bryan are to be believed.
> 
> Regarding Big E's potential, I used to think that he should model himself after Henry. However, now I'm not so sure. Of course, there's always a lesson to be learned from Henry, especially when it comes to berating another wrestler. But Big E symbolizes how the paradigm has changed when it comes to what a bigger wrestler is supposed to do. The days of the Big Shows and Bundys are dead, and that's not a problem at all. Those guys aren't the prototypes anymore as fans just aren't awed by sheer size anymore, and although Big E is...big, he isn't tall and he's under 300 lbs.
> 
> ...



I don't want you to mistake what I am saying as "Big E should wrestle like Mark Henry". That's not it at all. For 1, Big E can't wrestle like Mark Henry because he's not Mark Henry. For another, they have totally different skills and body types. No, what I was saying was he needs to not leave his feet so much and be so quick to bump around, and he needs to to put the bad mouth on guys more if he's gonna be an effective heel in the ring. Those 2 things just happen to be things that Henry excels at, so that's why I said he should watch and learn from Henry's best matches. He needs to work on that dazed selling all big men have, where they are rocking and reeling but still aren't leaving their feet. Then when they finally get that one last big shot that sends them down, he can bump around all he wants. It's just adding realism to his work, Big E is not only a massive, muscular man, he's short, so he has a low center of gravity. It's really damn hard to knock a guy built like Big E down in real life, he needs to make his opponents work for it. And up the intensity on his cut offs, you need to act like you are snuffing the life out of a baby face when you are ending his attempt at a come back. Try to suck all that energy out of the crowd and make them go "Ohhhh.......BOOOOOOOOO!" as their reaction to you leveling him.

As for Lesnar being the model for Rusev, that's fine, but don't you remember how Brock got over so big in the first place? He was taking full force chair shots to the skull from the Hardys and NOT LEAVING HIS FEET. And nowadays Brock NEVER goes down from one shot. How many damn super man punches did Reigns have to catch him with before he went down? 3? 4? And Brock's selling during that entire flurry from Reigns was downright masterful. That's what Rusev needs to continue to excel at, he's already VERY good at selling from what I've seen, but he's not Brock, he's not even close to Brock when it comes to selling, so he still has room to work on it.

I can see A LOT of potential in Big E and Rusev as big man heels, but in order for them to really be successful and climb up the card, they need to polish their game off and be real mean bastards. Big E isn't mean enough yet, he needs to get that "Fuck You" edge were the crowd can feel his disdain for them, and where his work and demeanor in the ring are more menacing. We know he's an athlete and he can bump, but it's choosing WHEN to bump that makes a big man heel great. He can't be going down from one weak ass clothesline from Tyson Kidd. I don't have a problem with Cesaro tossing him around because that's all legit, Cesaro is the strongest dude pound for pound in all of wrestling and he's presented that way. But Tyson Kidd is not, and therefore his selling and bumping should change depending on who his opponent is.

For Rusev I think he just needs a better, smaller opponent and be given time to really work an extended, 20 minute match with them. Someone like Neville, or Dean, or ideally Bryan would be the perfect opponent but he's injured. Someone the crowd is really behind who can fly around for his offense but work a believable, exciting come back. The thing holding Rusev back from the main event is simply earning it from the fans. Once they see a real classic match from Rusev, I'm talking a ****1/4+ match, he will be ready. That's what did it for Wyatt at RR 2014 before the Cena feud ruined him. That's what did it for Seth at RR 2015. One classic match can make a guy a main eventer.



#BadNewsSanta said:


> I kind of feel like this is the case. No one seems to do more than their usual every match moves. In fact, it's to the point where these moves have to be performed. It wouldn't surprise me if these guys have to get moves approved beforehand, and if you do go out there and take risks, it could mean your job (unless of course you're in a certain position).
> 
> In Barrett's case, it wouldn't surprise me if Vince was yelling in the ref's ear "TELL BARRETT TO PUT A SLEEPER ON HIM!" While I'm sure there's a lot of moves that can be done, I think they're also careful in not repeating moves other guys do except the basic stuff like clotheslines, suplexes, etc. Barrett would probably have to have gone to Vince/management and made a request to be able to use a move as a follow-up to that backbreaker that targets the back. Don't think there's anything in Barrett's normal arsenal that would work in that case. And hell, he probably didn't even know he was facing Neville until late in the week the earliest, maybe not even until Sunday so he probably didn't have time to add anything. He's also not in that position where he can get away with doing stuff on the fly.
> 
> At least that's how it feels anyway. It's a fucked up limiting system, but that's Vince nowadays for you. Everything has to be carefully done.


I think it's probably that way for a lot of mid card guys. I know Bryan and Punk were never controlled like that, and Lesnar certainly isn't. Punk said his matches with Cena, Bryan, and Lesnar were called almost entirely on the fly in the ring. Bryan's matches are similar, although I do think the match he had with Reigns at FastLane was very tightly controlled. It's kind funny, you allow 2 guys to do what they want in the ring and voila, they are the 2 best wrestlers on the roster, period. You tightly control most of the others and they are only ever able to max out at a ***3/4 or so match. Barrett, Ziggler, Ambrose, Harper, etc all just cant break through with a real classic match because they are never given the time or the freedom to do it with a good opponent.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bubz said:


> Reigns/Show LMS was great.


This excites me greatly.

I've only seen the first half of the show and it's piss poor. No surprise.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Get ready to be disappointed. And then horrified by that main event.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

It's amazing how many differing opinions are within this thread. Wonder if anyone else will like the cage match with me.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> It's amazing how many differing opinions are within this thread. Wonder if anyone else will like the cage match with me.


I'm watching the Bulls/Bucks game right meow but I'll check the cage match out later tonight/early tomorrow and report back. If this was a heel 2006 Randy Orton vs Baby Face 2014 Seth Rollins it would fantastic and I'd really want to watch. However, a baby face 2015 Orton vs heel Rollins with the constant interference makes me cringe. Seriously, what is it with WWE going full WCW and ruining all their cage gimmicks with constant interference? It's gotten so I don't give one single shit about the cage gimmick because all it means is you are GUARUNTEED interference instead of it just being a mere possibility in a regular match. How about this WWE, for the next 5 years there can be ZERO interference in cage matches or HiaC matches, we don't do anymore LMS matches unless it's the blowoff to a several month long feud, and we have our MitB winner actually get built up and win matches on the way to his cash in instead of him losing every time "because it doesn't matter, he's gonna win the title anyway" :lmao. That's the worst logic ever, you plan on making a guy champ so you have him lose all the time because you think all those losses will be erased with a title win. Erm, no that's not how it works. Triple H didn't lose every match in 1999 because "he was just gonna win the title anyway". Brock Lesnar didn't lose every match in 2002 because he was just gonna win the title anyway, he won every match except for the DQ vs RVD. And even Edge beat Benoit in a LMS match at Backlash, then beat Hardy in the Loser Leaves Raw ladder match that ended their feud in his build up to pinning Cena. You gotta build guys. Seth hasn't been built up nearly enough to sustain all these losses and screw finishes. It's getting him the wrong kind of heat, it's "X-Pac" or go away heat. No one wants to watch a champ who has massive amounts interference in every single one of his matches. If it was just the odd stomp or kick whenever an opponent was outside the ring, or occasionally choking him from the outside when the ref isn't looking, that would be one thing. But this endless interference where J & J security spend as much time in the ring as Seth does has to freaking stop. It's ruining all of Seth's matches.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> It's amazing how many differing opinions are within this thread. Wonder if anyone else will like the cage match with me.


I re-watched and it went up some for me. The beginning wasn't as bad as I thought, though it still was slow and not too imaginative. I think that's the problem with cage matches nowadays. Unless it's really imaginative, there's no point.

I still found it mostly enjoyable to watch, especially once the fuckery started. I can totally see why people would HATE the fuckery, but I just feel it's not worth getting upset about, when I knew going in it'd be all about Kane & co.

I guess I enjoyed the fact that from that point on, it went unexpectedly with the RKOs and Pedigree stuff.

Also noticed nice little touches, like Randy looking down at the ground with an "oh, shit" expression once he got to the top, lol. 

Seth really was selling like a champ, and was great being weaselly, so that helped make it something to watch.

Could never rate it or anything, though, because it definitely had its flaws, and I'm still not sure how I really feel about it. But I at least found it enjoyable on re-watch.


ff,I will re-watch the tag match tomorrow. 

When I saw Show/Reigns LMS, especially with Big Show talking shit in the beginning, my first thought was "ModHayley will love this." :lol


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Only watched Fella/Ziggler and was disappointed. Like it was work for the right way ( Sheamus beating the piss out of ziggler) and I thought Ziggler would thrive in it as he seems to love playing the FIP even when it's seconds into the match, but the match was kinda flat and boring idk

Saw the finish of Cena/Rusev and it was awful


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

There was a knee by Sheamus and then Ziggler looks like an ultra geek. That's about all I got. Wins don't matter; post match shenanigans do.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

recall that spot, IDK just IDK


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ziggler did do a good job of selling his leg during his comeback after Sheamus did the cloverleaf. Don't think his selling was bad.

I don't think Seth is getting anything close to X-Pac heat at all. He's actually doing heelish things, and he's doing such a good job that he's getting smarks to boo him. Now the main event storyline is pretty awful regardless, but Seth is not the problem. Randy Orton as a babyface in 2015 working in an overbooked junk feud is. Kane booking another tag team match to main event tonight is. Dean Ambrose not feuding with Seth is.

:lmao Rusev just killed Heath Slater.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm not sure if I just stopped caring as much or I've become less strict on how I view/rate matches, but I'm remaining positive on the current product. Seth was never meant to have a great title reign filled with excellent matches that wows the crowd. He's gonna escape with the belt by any means necessary to keep the heat on him and I'm ok with it. He keeps backtalking Kane & the Authority and I'm interested to see if this ever builds to something big (match with Hunter at Summerslam or Survivor Series?). 

I like what they did tonight with Orton & Reigns coming out and staking their claim to a title match. We're gonna get a 3-way at Payback and I'm fine with it. Should be a fun finish to see how Rollins wins this one.

EDIT: Sheamus vs. Ambrose was rock solid. Really nice spot on the app during commercial break where Sheamus tossed Ambrose head first into the ringpost which got him a close 9 count on the outside. Got crazy down the stretch and the Ziggler interference was fine (it was actually pretty fucking cool). *** 1/4


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The tournament matches have been a bit disappointing for me so far. Didn't expect anything out of the Stardust/Truth match and it wasn't anything special. Barrett/Ziggler was good, Ambrose/Sheamus was boring and the finish sucked. Hoping this Neville/Harper match blows me away.

Sandow promo (before Axel came out) was the best part of the night by far so far. Not that it has much to compete with, but it's something.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Nevile vs. Harper was pretty sweet. Neville is completely on fire right now. Those two had great chemistry. *** 1/4

Stardust/Truth never had a shot at being anything and Barrett/Ziggler was fun. Fine for a TV opener. Semi Finals tomorrow are kinda unpredictable. Has to be a lock that Barrett is going over Truth (right!?), but is Neville gonna beat Sheamus!? Neville to win the whole thing!? Sheamus vs. Truth would be shit and I'm not sure why'd they run heel vs. heel with Sheamus/Barrett. Who knows!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Neville/Harper was good. First half was mediocre but the last half was excellent. In STARS for the KOTR matches I'd probably go:

Barrett/Ziggler- ***
Truth/Stardust- *1/2
Ambrose/Sheamus- **
Neville/Harper- ***

Would put Neville/Harper over Barrett/Ziggler as the former had a great finishing stretch, where Barrett/Ziggler's wasn't anything hot. 


As far as tomorrow night goes, they're definitely not doing Barrett/Sheamus with both of them as heels. Either it's Sheamus/Truth in a match Sheamus obviously wins (unless WWE wants to totally destroy the credibility of KOTR, pull a swerve and have Truth win it), or it's Barrett/Neville which would actually be very unpredictable as I could see either guy winning it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Color me shocked but that was a pretty damn fun main event! Rollins eats another pin so the crowd stays content until he escapes with the title in Baltimore. Aside from the skippable shit from your usual suspects, I actually liked tonight's RAW. (Y)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Ziggler did do a good job of selling his leg during his comeback after Sheamus did the cloverleaf. Don't think his selling was bad.
> 
> I don't think Seth is getting anything close to X-Pac heat at all. He's actually doing heelish things, and he's doing such a good job that he's getting smarks to boo him. Now the main event storyline is pretty awful regardless, but Seth is not the problem. Randy Orton as a babyface in 2015 working in an overbooked junk feud is. Kane booking another tag team match to main event tonight is. Dean Ambrose not feuding with Seth is.
> 
> :lmao Rusev just killed Heath Slater.





Jack Evans 187 said:


> I'm not sure if I just stopped caring as much or I've become less strict on how I view/rate matches, but I'm remaining positive on the current product. Seth was never meant to have a great title reign filled with excellent matches that wows the crowd. He's gonna escape with the belt by any means necessary to keep the heat on him and I'm ok with it. He keeps backtalking Kane & the Authority and I'm interested to see if this ever builds to something big (match with Hunter at Summerslam or Survivor Series?).
> 
> I like what they did tonight with Orton & Reigns coming out and staking their claim to a title match. We're gonna get a 3-way at Payback and I'm fine with it. Should be a fun finish to see how Rollins wins this one.
> 
> EDIT: Sheamus vs. Ambrose was rock solid. Really nice spot on the app during commercial break where Sheamus tossed Ambrose head first into the ringpost which got him a close 9 count on the outside. Got crazy down the stretch and the Ziggler interference was fine (it was actually pretty fucking cool). *** 1/4



You think people are going to keep being invested in seeing a Rollins title match with the hopes that he gets beat when every single match sucks and is just filled with non stop interference? You have a lot more confidence than I do. I think it's an incredibly short sighted way of presenting his character.

You want him to be a sneaky heel who constantly escapes by the skin of his teeth to keep the title? Great, that's a good idea, but he also has to have a shred of credibility and he can escape without having interference dominate his matches. They should keep J&J outside the ring delivering cheap shots whenever they can, ala Harley Race as Vader's manager. Then have Seth do all the dirty tricks in the book, low blows, choke holds, pulling hair, grabbing tights, using the ropes for leverage in his pin attempts and submissions. That's how you present that character, Seth has to do most of the work himself, otherwise the heat is just going on J&J and not Seth. This allows Seth to still have exciting and entertaining matches without ruining them with constant interference. That's Hollywood Hogan booking, it sucked then and it sucks now.

You guys might be okay with it but I've wached the Cena match at TLC, the Orton match at WM, the FastLane tag, the ER cage match, and 1-2 other matches and they have all been below average at best, if not outright garbage. Seth's one of the best workers in the company, his matches are handicapped by the interference and it's not allowing him to be built up at all. He hasn't built up enough credibility yet to survive this way, he needs to do the cheating himself for the most part with J&J being his heaters on the outside and also serving as his enforcers for attacks back stage.

That's just how I see it. I don't enjoy or look forward to watchinf Seth wrestle anymore because I know exactly what the match will be before it even starts. A great heel should have you wanting to see him get beat, the way he is booked isn't accomplishing that for me.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I totally see where you're coming from, but I really don't think it's damaging to Rollins in the slightest. That's been his thing the whole way through. He's got talent, he is the future, but he constantly needs someone's help to stay atop the food chain. I also think the crowd is fully aware that he's an extremely talented dude, so he's labeled as "the guy who can seriously wrestle, but always needs someone else's help" so he gets big heat for it. The J&J Security interference does get pretty old at times, but luckily Rollins' opponent normally lays them out and they don't play a major factor into the actual finishes of matches. I've just come to terms with them always being around.  And at least their interference wasn't NEARLY as bad as Rowan & Harper last year. That was awful.

Keep in mind he is the one who cashed in completely on his own and won the triple threat match at Mania. He also stood toe to toe with Lesnar in those final minutes of the Royal Rumble triple threat (and kayfabe broke his rib). People aren't gonna forget that, and if they do, he's just gonna remind us. Guy still has plenty of credibility if you ask me. Broke up the Shield, MITB winner, etc. I'm completely ok with what they're doing right now. Eventually, he's not gonna have all this help and he is gonna have to win a match on his own. It's gonna happen. Let's just wait and see how and when.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Rollins left Wrestlemania as champion, taking the belt from Brock Lesnar, he's got plenty of credibility.

I'm loving his current character just now, he's the only reason I'm watching just now tbh.

Plus we will probably get Brock/Rollins at Summerslam.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

FCW - Dean Ambrose vs Damien Sandow - FCW 15 Championship - Dec11-11

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k3yW40JlprBsV2aWIKu

Some people in the chat box were after it so I upped it. My fav Sandow match .


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Show felt like a bunch of TV matches. I didn't really dislike anything but there wasn't anything I thought was above the quality that you usually get once a week on TV. I thought Ambrose/Harper was FCA and thought they were going with the fighting all over Chicago gimmick throughout the show or even the never ending FCA match that lasts until the next PPV and Ambrose just keeps chasing Harper to TV every week to fight him. It was fine but comedy hardcore matches should be below both of them but especially Ambrose. I'm not super high on him like some but him being used essentially how Steve Blackman was is pathetic. Dolph/Sheamus was decent but the abrupt finish limited its potential. Post match stuff was super I thought. Sheamus was brilliant during the match but the post match stuff was something else. Pay off was great. If I was acting like wins and losses mattered then Sheamus being pinned was baffling but they don't so whatever. Watched bits of Raw and Sheamus comes out to distract Dolph during his match and starts off with "I don't mean to distract ya Dolph". Sheamus is the best right now. I bet he's Vince's project right now too with the hating small guys and wanting them to kiss his arse shtick. Also lel at doing a KOTR with a bunch of midcard (and soon to be midcard) geeks. Ambrose/Sheamus really should have been super but it wasn't. Ambrose feels really formulaic right now and lacking that spark he had post Shield.

Tag Titles match was MOTN and very fun. Besides Mania where they didn't matter this is my first taste of The New Day and they absolutely rule. As babyfaces I imagine they were intolerable but they're an awesome heel act. Someone should tell Renee that though because she was clapping along with them. Woods was brilliant at ringside. "Why are you booing us? We're winning!" Super. On Raw he said they clapped their way to title success. Amazing. Woods even came out wearing Kofi's belt on Raw. Fantastic. Nattie's just gonna be coming out in a towel soon at this rate. No idea why Cesaro and Kidd are apparently faces now but I can roll with it. Kofi still wrestles like a babyface. Dumbass. Cena/Rusev was bad. Corners matches are so lame. Strategy matches in rasslin. Ha. The Lana stuff is so stupid because they're writing her as a totally different character now with her out of nowhere randomly waving to the crowd and backing down to Rusev like she's shy and lacking confidence. Errr. Guessing Lana throws in the towel for Rusev in the I Quit Match. Nikki/Naomi was bad and these Divas matches are seriously better only going 5 minutes because regardless of what happens in NXT the ones on the main roster can't go that long. Naomi has awesome shoes though and light up shoes that change colours is awesome heel shtick.

Reigns/Show was ok. As far as enjoying it as a match it's basically relying on you digging the highspots which I didn't really. They were fine but nothing original. Show was brilliant in it though with his actions between the spots. The Reigns roar he did floored me and so did "Big Show needs to lose weight". JBL's "why would you write that" line was killer too. Cage match was just killing time until the Kane stuff at the end. Granted it was kinda interesting though and probably better than another 10 minutes of teased cage escape finishes. Everyone must feud forever apparently because Orton/Rollins must continue and Rollins/Kane gets a super slow build. Pedigree spot was cool. The RKO stip was wasted once they didn't have Orton repeatedly have Rollins put away and primed for the finish but then Orton has to go to something else that can't quite get the job done. Thought the Rollins RKO was a pretty nifty finish until they ruined their own finish by mocking their own stip. No idea why they didn't just go with Orton can't use the RKO and let themselves have a smartly booked finish. Ok show. I don't think any stip actually enhances the quality of WWE matches now. In fact they nearly all hurt them. Cage matches just suck and are so stupid. LMS really suffers from pacing issues. HIAC is generally worse than a regular singles match now. EC is still strong I guess. Street Fights now turn into the same cane/chair/table spots and are mostly treated as comedy affairs now. Ladder Match is done.*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bit late, but someone asked for some AJPW recs, from the 90's:

http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/lofiversion/index.php?t19898.html

The main ones are covered.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Spoiler: King of the Ring



Barrett and Neville produce another great, might be even better than their Extreme Rules match. The rib work by Barrett and the selling by Neville were excellent, and Barrett winning is the icing on the cake. Crowd was pro-Neville, although the crowd wasn't as hot as Chicago was at ER (obviously). Great stuff though, ***3/4.

ALL HAIL KING BARRETT! :barrett

Neville/Sheamus and Barrett/Truth were both pretty shitty, Neville/Sheamus less so but definitely not the quality I'd expect from those two. 

Also while I'm at it, top 10 of the year so far:

(****1/4)
1) Lesnar vs. Cena vs. Rollins Royal Rumble
(****)
2) Bryan vs. Ziggler Raw 3/30
3) Bryan vs. Ziggler Smackdown 3/19
4) Cesaro and Kidd vs. Big E and Kofi Extreme Rules
5) Lesnar vs. Reigns Wrestlemania 31
(***3/4)
6) Barrett vs. Neville Extreme Rules
7) Barrett vs. Neville King of the Ring
(***1/2)
8) Barrett vs. Cena Raw 4/13
9) Bryan vs. Harper Smackdown 3/19
10) Ambrose vs. Cena Raw 3/30


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

King of the Ring Finals was a fun match. Worth a watch at ***. Semi Finals are skippable.

They're obviously gonna do Sheamus/Ziggler at Payback (fitting PPV title there), but what kinda stipulation will they have? No Holds Barred? Either way I think it's gonna be fuckin awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Reigns vs Show LMS was really good. Quite the fan of it. Love the way both reacted throughout. Show working the fans after any sign of dominance. Or Reigns laughing at Show getting crotched on the top rope. Great.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

"Big Show only likes tables if there's food on it!" :lol

Had so much fun watching that match.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Been spending a lot of time recently on matches that I've seen make a handful of "Top (Number) Matches of (Time Period)" over the years, but that nobody really talks about as classics for whatever reason. Here are a few of the standouts:

Cactus Jack vs. Paul Orndorff (Falls Count Anywhere, SuperBrawl III)

Brock Lesnar vs. Chris Benoit (WWE title, SmackDown 12/4/03)

Rey Mysterio vs. Randy Orton (WHC #1 Contendership, No Way Out '06)

John Cena vs. HHH vs. Edge (WHC, Backlash '06)

Rob Van Dam & Kurt Angle vs. Edge & Randy Orton ("ECW," 6/20/06)

Christian vs. William Regal ("ECW" Championship, Breaking Point)

Rey Mysterio vs. Jack Swagger (WHC, Money in the Bank 2010)

Each of these matches left me wondering _why_ nobody talks about it anymore. All in the "great"-to-"really freaking good" range.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lesnar/Benoit gets brought up quite a bit in here.

Orton/Mysterio from NWO is my fav match between the two, and I seem to be the biggest fan of it. Most here prefer their SD match a couple of months later.

Christan/Regal is definitely :mark: but is likely overshadowed by their ECW TV match (which I was there live for  and I love letting people know ), or overshadowed by a certain other Christian ECW title match in 2009 :mark:. SWAGGIE~!

Been ages since I saw Cactus/Orndorff, but I remember it being super fun. Backlash 06 triple threat is pretty sweet. Didn't care for the Swagger/Mysterio matches at all. And finally, that ECW tag match sounds god awful and I'd imagine I'd think the same thing if I watched it .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> Lesnar/Benoit gets brought up quite a bit in here.
> 
> Orton/Mysterio from NWO is my fav match between the two, and I seem to be the biggest fan of it. Most here prefer their SD match a couple of months later.
> 
> ...



Ditto on most of what you said. Lesnar/Benoit is my #4 best TV match ever (behind Eddie/Rey SD! 05', Austin/Benoit SD!, and Angle/Taker SD! 03')I gave it ****3/4 which is higher than most but it's just a damn flawless match. I just realized all top 5 of the best TV matches ever IMO happened on SD! (#5 is Orton/Benoit 1/16/06). It's a shame we never got a real Benoit/Lesnar feud, but God damn they made the most of it the one time they got more than 10 minutes in a singles match. Absolutely incredible.

Just watched both Christian/Regal matches (the ECW and the BP ones) a few weeks ago and they still hold up amazingly well. I used to prefer the BP match but that changed on the most recent viewing. I don't blame Cal for bragging about being there to see that match live, I would too if I was there! 

As for the rest, I enjoyed the Backlash 06' triple threat quite a bit, especially considering I'm not a fan of triple threats nor am I a fan of any of the talent involved. I've never seen that Angle/RVD vs Edge/Orton tag, never even heard of it, is it any good? Orton and Edge hadn't started totally sucking yet, Angle had 2 classic matches in 06', and RVD is whatever, he can be fun or sucky depending on his opponent.

I love Orndorff/Cactus though, that was just a down and dirty fight.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

I say RVD-Angle vs. the duo not yet known as Rated RKO is a gem. It's not blow-away great, but Angle is good, Van Dam isn't on offense enough to fuck up the whole match, and Edge and Orton just work really well together (in their first match as a duo) in a way that I can't quite put my finger on, but reminds me more of a classic WCW tag team than anything I can remember seeing in WWE. Might just be me, but I think it's pretty darn sweet.

Haven't seen the Christian/Regal TV match. I'll have to go exploring for it.

*EDIT: *Is the Christian/Regal TV match you guys are talking about from the 1/19/2010 show? Looks like WWE has that, and a bunch of other episodes, up on their official YouTube channel, so...


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Looks like Barrett listened to @The Rabid Wolverine's comments after Extreme Rules. His offense in last night's KOTR final against Neville was a lot more focused on Neville's injured ribs. Barrett also replaced the sleeper holds with this cool looking bow and arrow-like submission that I never saw from him before. Good solid match that put both guys over. If they had spaced out this KOTR tournament more instead of making it a two night affair, then this would have been a solid tournament. However, the WWE wanted to take advantage of the free month which reduced the potential of this tournament.

I'm pretty impressed by this Sheamus/Ziggler feud. It's a non-title midcard feud that has a defined problem, progression, and heat. The crowd actually cares about both guys and last night we had a nice short brawl between the two. Looking forward to what they will do at Payback because I honestly don't know who will come out on top. Hopefully some IC Title implications come out of this.

Unlike the rest of you, I did watch that ECW tag match and I liked it a lot. ECW around that time had this nice formula where every show had a solid 20 minute main event featuring RVD, Angle, Big Show, Edge, or Orton among others. This is also the best time to rewatch Flair vs. Big Show.

Looks like I'm not the only one that has Lesnar/Benoit at ****3/4.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

#ROOT said:


> Lesnar/Benoit gets brought up quite a bit in here.


Really? I'd never heard of it until I saw it on a list (not on this forum) of Brock's top 10 matches from his first run with the company. In any case, VERY glad I checked it out. Wonderful, wonderful stuff.



#ROOT said:


> Orton/Mysterio from NWO is my fav match between the two, and I seem to be the biggest fan of it. Most here prefer their SD match a couple of months later.


Honestly, I probably prefer the SD match too, but not so much that it should in any way overshadow what they did at NWO. Everybody involved did such a great job putting over the stakes, and made it feel like a huge deal even when Orton slowed it down to a pace that I normally wouldn't forgive him for. I don't know if it's either guy's best _match_, per se, but I think it might be Rey's best _performance_ in WWE.



#ROOT said:


> Christan/Regal is definitely :mark: but is likely overshadowed by their ECW TV match (which I was there live for  and I love letting people know ), or overshadowed by a certain other Christian ECW title match in 2009 :mark:. SWAGGIE~!


I get why the Swagger match (presumably the TV one from February, not the Backlash one, though I seem to remember that being a good one too) is more loved than the Regal one at BP, and even agree with that consensus, but the Regal match seems good enough that the fact that _anything_ has "overshadowed" it seems like a mistake.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Bruce L said:


> *EDIT: *Is the Christian/Regal TV match you guys are talking about from the 1/19/2010 show? Looks like WWE has that, and a bunch of other episodes, up on their official YouTube channel, so...


8/25/09.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Nasty Boys vs. Cactus Jack & Kevin Sullivan (WCW Slamboree 94)*

x2oh3cr

As requested.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Yeah1993 said:


> 8/25/09.


Oh; the non-title match. That one's not up.  I am getting the 11/10/09 title match, so we'll see how that is.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Oh they're all pretty great. I was actually wrong, though. It can't be the one Cal went to b/c it isn't in England (11/10/09 was, so you're looking at the that one). I think I thought 8/25 was the best one, which is why it sprung to mind. Really any of the three in 09 could be the best one.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Ah. Gotcha. Yeah, I have no doubt they're all varying degrees of great, and will almost certainly make it a point to check out all of them sooner or later.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Seabs said:


> *I thought Ambrose/Harper was FCA and thought they were going with the fighting all over Chicago gimmick throughout the show or even the never ending FCA match that lasts until the next PPV and Ambrose just keeps chasing Harper to TV every week to fight him.
> 
> The Lana stuff is so stupid because they're writing her as a totally different character now with her out of nowhere randomly waving to the crowd and backing down to Rusev like she's shy and lacking confidence. Errr.*


I agree. There was a thread stating that this is what WWE would have done in the past, and most people posting in the thread thought that the fight would visually be continued out into the streets.

How the fuck could the WWE miss that easy, easy, opportunity? The only way it would make any sense is if they're planning on doing a continuation at Payback.

As for the Lana stuff, you're so right. It was out of nowhere. There's been dissension teased amongst Lana & Rusev, but it's never been implied that she's a big attention-whore. It was so stupid and sudden and unnatural. 

Again, the messing up of something that should be so simple to tell effectively in storyline. 

I get that Rusev is supposed to come off as unreasonable, but there should at least be a real build-up to that. Ditto with Lana suddenly becoming docile lately.



funnyfaces1 said:


> I'm pretty impressed by this Sheamus/Ziggler feud. It's a non-title midcard feud that has a defined problem, progression, and heat. The crowd actually cares about both guys and last night we had a nice short brawl between the two. Looking forward to what they will do at Payback because I honestly don't know who will come out on top. Hopefully some IC Title implications come out of this.


Sheamus will come out on top, I assume, but I thought the feud came off really well-done during the KoTR special last night.

The blood helped, but it almost came off like a shoot. With Sheamus really swinging over the refs, saying that he was gonna kick Dolph's ass (not arse) off-mic, Dolph having a genuine seeming look of hatred in his eyes...and carrying that anger over into his promo, where it was very insular and understated, and like he was too busy in his own head to even want to talk to Renee at first.

I just liked the whole thing because it wasn't showy at all, despite the brawl being a typical showy thing that we see.

I liked the KoTR tournament btw, especially with all of the interviews given throughout. I think that the WWE will expand on it next year.

They also did a great job of making Neville seem like he had it in the bag throughout.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bruce L said:


> Oh; the non-title match. That one's not up.  I am getting the 11/10/09 title match, so we'll see how that is.


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k6lO6CwiwTTPgmaYpJ8 it's up now .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Since Dailymotion updated their site, the upload feature has turned to shit. Spent 2 hours uploading a video, it gets to 100, then I get an error.

Happens now on at least 3 out of 5 videos I upload, try and re upload the sane file, get the error again, so i have to re - encode the the fucking video again.

I might just switch back to YT and hope they stay on.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I just use their dailymotion uploader program, never have any problems personally .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I might give that a go then.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

#ROOT said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k6lO6CwiwTTPgmaYpJ8 it's up now .


Sweet. Thanks!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> Since Dailymotion updated their site, the upload feature has turned to shit. Spent 2 hours uploading a video, it gets to 100, then I get an error.
> 
> Happens now on at least 3 out of 5 videos I upload, try and re upload the sane file, get the error again, so i have to re - encode the the fucking video again.
> 
> I might just switch back to YT and hope they stay on.


I don't know if you or anyone else ever experienced the same problem that I did, but when they created that Beta version of the new video player, all the videos I tried to watch went to shit. Every video I would watch would be so damn choppy and laggy you couldn't even watch it. Then one day when I got really pissed because I couldn't find the match I was looking for on YT and only DM had a link, I clicked on that thing that says "Try the new player" or whatever that's under the video screen. I had to log in and create a new account, but when I did and started using the new Beta player, it miraculously fixed itself. Gotta love that tactic, they pretend to give you a choice on whether you want to use the new player or not, but in reality it's "we made the quality so crappy on the old player you have no choice but use this new one, but here let's give you an option on which player you want to use! We are nice guys!" :lmao

Dunno if anyone else experienced that problem or not.

P.S. Nasties vs Jack/Sullivan :mark::mark: I might be in the minority but I think I actually SLIGHTLY prefer the Slamboree bout with Sullivan to the much more heralded Spring Stampede bout with Maxx Payne. Both are absolutely fantastic, don't get me wrong, both kick off about as hot and heavy as you can possibly start a match, but the Slamboree one seems to stay in that wild, chaotic gear a tad longer than the Spring Stampede one. It's too bad Mick didn't get to tag with Terry Funk in 1994 to face the Nasties, that would have taken it to a whole new level of awesome.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ill get the uploader and see if that is any better, one thing with that is that you can pause and resume an upload. It's only since they updated their site there has been issues, but of course they just stick their heads in the sand and pretend nothing is wrong.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Nasties vs Jack/Sullivan :mark::mark: I might be in the minority but I think I actually SLIGHTLY prefer the Slamboree bout with Sullivan to the much more heralded Spring Stampede bout with Maxx Payne. Both are absolutely fantastic, don't get me wrong, both kick off about as hot and heavy as you can possibly start a match, but the Slamboree one seems to stay in that wild, chaotic gear a tad longer than the Spring Stampede one. It's too bad Mick didn't get to tag with Terry Funk in 1994 to face the Nasties, that would have taken it to a whole new level of awesome.


Agree with every word of this. Considering that they're both a) matches that involve the Nasty Boys, and b) crazy chaotic brawls that go all over the place and involve more than two guys, they should be way outside of my enjoyment zone. But I love them all the same, especially the Sullivan one, which is almost certainly my favorite Cactus Jack-in-WCW match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

For people who asked for All Japan 90's recs, i found this extensive list of the essentials:



Spoiler: AJPW 90'S Match List



1990:
-Jumbo vs Misawa, 6/8
-Fantastics vs Joe Malenko/Kikuchi 9/1
-Jumbo vs Misawa, 9/1
-Jumbo/Taue vs Misawa/Kawada, 9/30
-Jumbo/Taue/Fuchi vs Misawa/Kawada/Kobashi, 10/19
-Jumbo/Taue vs Misawa/Kawada, 12/7


1991:
-Kawada vs Taue 1/15
-Jumbo/Taue/Fuchi vs Misawa/Kawada/Kikuchi, 1/27
-Gordy/Williams vs Hansen/Spivey, 4/18
-Jumbo vs Misawa, 4/18
-Jumbo/Taue/Fuchi vs Misawa/Kawada/Kobashi, 4/20
-Jumbo vs Kobashi, 5/24
-Misawa vs Gordy, 6/1
-Jumbo/Fuchi/Ogawa vs Misawa/Kawada/Kikuchi, 7/26
-Misawa/Kawada vs Jumbo/Taue, 9/4
-Jumbo/Fuchi/Taue vs Misawa/Kawada/Kikuchi, 10/15
-Jumbo vs Kawada, 10/24
-Jumbo/Taue vs Misawa/Kawada, 11/29
-Misawa/Kawada vs Gordy/Williams, 12/6


1992:
-Jumbo/Taue vs Kobashi/Kikuchi, 1/26
-Kawada vs Taue, 3/31
-Hansen vs Kawada, 4/6
-Team Jumbo vs Team Misawa, tag elimination, 4/18
-Jumbo/Taue/Fuchi vs Misawa/Kawada/Kobashi, 5/22
-Can-Ams vs Kobashi/Kikuchi, 5/25
-Jumbo/Taue vs Misawa/Kobashi, 6/5
-Kobashi/Kikuchi vs Fuchi/Ogawa, 7/5
-Misawa/Kobashi/Kikuchi vs Taue/Fuchi/Ogawa, 7/21
-Jumbo/Taue/Ogawa vs Misawa/Kawada/Kikuchi, 8/20
-Kawada vs Taue, 9/9
-Misawa vs Kawada, 10/21


1993:
-Kobashi/Kikuchi vs Akiyama/Ogawa, 1/24
-Fuchi vs Kikuchi, 2/28
-Hansen vs Kawada, 2/28
-Misawa vs Taue, 2/28
-Kawada vs Taue, Carnival
-Misawa vs Kawada, 3/27
-Kawada vs Kobashi, 4/14
-Hansen vs Kobashi, 4/16
-Misawa vs Hansen, 5/21
-Misawa/Kobashi vs Kawada/Taue, 6/1
-Misawa/Kobashi/Kikuchi vs Kawada/Taue/Ogawa, 6/3
-Misawa/Kobashi/Akiyama vs Kawada/Taue/Ogawa, 7/2
-Hansen vs Kobashi, 7/29
-Misawa vs Kawada, 7/29
-Williams vs Kobashi, 8/31
-Misawa vs Williams, 9/3
-Kawada vs Kobashi, 10/23
-Misawa/Kobashi vs Hansen/Baba, 11/30
-Kawada/Taue vs Williams/Bossman, 12/1
-Misawa/Kobashi vs Kawada/Taue, 12/3


1994:
-Hansen/Baba vs Misawa/Kobashi, 3/5
-Hansen vs Kobashi, 4/10
-Kawada vs Williams, 4/16
-Misawa/Kobashi vs Kawada/Taue, 5/21
-Misawa vs Kawada, 6/3
-Misawa vs Williams, 7/28
-Williams vs Kobashi, 9/3
-Williams vs Kawada, 10/22
-Misawa/Kobashi vs Williams/Ace, 12/10


1995:
-Kawada vs Kobashi, 1/19
-Misawa/Kobashi vs Kawada/Taue, 1/24
-Misawa/Kobashi vs Williams/Ace, 3/4
-Taue vs Kobashi, 3/21
-Misawa vs Kobashi, 3/26
-Misawa vs Kawada, 4/6
-Taue vs Kawada, 4/8
-Kawada vs Kobashi, 4/13
-Misawa vs Taue, 4/15
-Kroffat vs RVD, 6/9
-Misawa/Kobashi vs Kawada/Taue, 6/9
-Misawa/Kobashi/Asako vs Kawada/Taue/Honda, 6/30
-Misawa vs Kawada, 7/24
-Misawa vs Taue, 9/10
-Misawa/Kobashi vs Kawada/Taue, 10/15
-Kawada vs Albright, 10/25
-Misawa vs Kobashi, 10/25


1996:
-Kawada & Taue vs Kobashi & Akiyama, 3/2
-Kawada vs Taue, 3/31
-Taue vs Williams, 4/20
-Misawa/Akiyama vs Kawada/Taue, 5/23
-Misawa vs Taue, 5/24
-Misawa/Akiyama vs Williams/Ace, 6/7
-Taue vs Kobashi, 7/24
-Kobashi vs Kawada, 10/18
-Misawa/Akiyama vs Kobashi/Patriot, 11/22
-Misawa/Akiyama vs Kawada/Taue, 11/29
-Misawa/Akiyama vs Kawada/Taue, 12/6


1997:
-Misawa vs Kobashi, 1/20
-Misawa vs Kawada, 4/2
-Misawa vs Kobashi, 4/19
-Misawa vs Kawada, 6/6
-Kobashi vs Hase, 8/27
-Misawa vs Kobashi, 10/21
-Kawada/Taue vs Hayabusa/Shinzaki, 11/23
-Misawa/Akiyama vs Hayabusa/Shinzaki, 11/27
-Misawa/Akiyama vs Kawada/Taue, 11/28
-Misawa/Akiyama vs Kawada/Taue, 12/5


1998:
-Kawada/Taue vs Kobashi/Ace, 1/25
-Kawada/Taue vs Kobashi/Ace, 6/5
-Kawada vs Kobashi, 6/12
-Kobashi vs Akiyama, 7/24
-Misawa vs Kobashi, 10/31


1999:
-Misawa vs Kawada, 1/22
-Kobashi/Akiyama vs Misawa/Ogawa, 3/6
-Misawa vs Vader, 5/2
Kobashi/Akiyama vs Misawa/Ogawa 10/23
-Misawa vs Kobashi, 6/11
-Kobashi/Akiyama vs Taue/Hansen, 12/3



Thought it may help people out a bit.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

The 3/6/99 Burning vs. Untouchables tag title match is one of that list-maker's essentials, but not the much better 10/23 rematch? Shenanigans, I say! But otherwise a near-perfect compilation of the must-sees and should-sees.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Brock said:


> Since Dailymotion updated their site, the upload feature has turned to shit. Spent 2 hours uploading a video, it gets to 100, then I get an error.
> 
> Happens now on at least 3 out of 5 videos I upload, try and re upload the sane file, get the error again, so i have to re - encode the the fucking video again.
> 
> I might just switch back to YT and hope they stay on.


I know for Youtube, it'll sometimes stay stuck at 100% or "processing" for hours. What I've learned is that as long as it shows up in your uploaded videos (even if it still says processing there), you can just exit out of the main page that you're uploading, and it will have worked.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

That All Japan list is still missing a good few things. Kawada/Kobashi 3/20/92, Misawa/Kobashi 3/31/96, couple Vader matches in 1999. Not sure it's even poissible to gather all of the worth-a-watch stuff from 90s AJ in one place, but there's another list here-

http://www.otherarena.com/z_jdw/ajpwlist.htm

Based on Dave Meltzer's ratings, but ignore that if you want to.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Really need to get on that AJPW hype


----------



## Foreshadowed (Oct 4, 2006)

I watched a few of the Extreme Rules matches last night, here are my ratings:

*Chicago Street Fight - *Ambrose/Harper - *3/4
An okay street fight, felt like it was going to have an attitude era feel to it when they drove out of the arena in the vehicle. Felt strange that 30 odd minutes later they turned back up and looked fresh and we didn't really know what happened in between. Some of the spots were cool but it was nothing special.

*"Kiss Me Arse Match" - *Ziggler/Sheamus - ***

Good match, especially liked the last few minutes of the match where things started to pick up. I wasn't overly fussed on the finish and it simply built to a return match. Sheamus is so good in this heel role and I'm loving how cocky he's become, he pulls it off so well. Ziggler is Ziggler - putting on his usual great matches. 

*Tag Team Title Match - *Cesaro & Kidd/The New Day - ***1/2

An exciting match from start to finish, the crowd ate it up and so did I. Woods was funny on the outside, Cesaro and Kidd have such a good chemistry as a team and The New Day are doing their act really well and their reactions to the negative heat is great. The finish was excellent with all the big moves coming out eventually leading to Kofi winning the Tag Team Championships for The New Day by pulling the trunks during the roll up. Enthralling from start to finish. I'm loving those Cesaro European Uppercuts!

*Last Man Standing Match -*Reigns/Big Show - ***

I actually enjoyed this match, I'm really digging Reigns at the moment (became more of a fan of his after watching The Shield Blu-Ray set) and some of the fans are starting to warm up to him again. His promos have improved significantly and it's good to see him get the win here against Show. Some of the spots were great; the Chokeslam through the tables, the Samoan Drop through the table, the Spear through the barricade, the Spear through the Spanish announce table and Reigns just dumping the other announce table on top of Show to win the match. Last Man Standing matches tend to suffer from the slow pace but I think it worked here for me. Good work here and better than expected.

I haven't watched the rest of the show and don't really tend to, I'm not a fan of Cage matches so I'll give that one a miss.

Also, I've recently completed watching the entire Money in the Bank: Straight to the Top Blu-Ray set. Here are my ratings and thoughts:

*1st Ever Money in the Bank Ladder Match*
_Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit vs. Shelton Benjamin vs. Edge vs. Christian vs. Kane
WrestleMania 21 · April 3, 2005_
*Rating:* ****1/2

The match that started it all and arguably still the best one of the entire MITB series. Benjamin stole the spotlight in this one with some of his athletic and big spots, Edge was brilliant as the sneaky heel that wins it at the end, Benoit despite not being mentioned by name (still strange having commentary cut out but understandable) sold the arm so well in this one and the rest did what they do best. This match had a great, frantic pace, big crazy spots, psychology, cool moments with the ladder, great selling, told a good story of the importance of the briefcase and had a great ending. A real classic for me.

*Money in the Bank Ladder Match*_
Ric Flair vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Shelton Benjamin vs. Matt Hardy vs. Finlay vs. Bobby Lashley
WrestleMania 22 · April 2, 2006_
*Rating:* ***3/4

This match wasn't as good as the first ever MITB match but still had some great spots, loved the story with Flair leaving the match injured and then returning and almost winning it. Finlay was so good as the guy that just thrived on this sort of match, working stiff with everyone and RVD, Hardy and Benjamin were there for the high flying big spots. Benjamin once again stole the spotlight here, the run up the ladder and the somersault splash to the outside was a great visual. Lashley did alright in the match also. Good finish and RVD would go on to win the WWE Championship at One Night Stand.

*Money in the Bank Ladder Match*_
Jeff Hardy vs. King Booker vs. Finlay vs. CM Punk vs. Mr. Kennedy vs. Matt Hardy vs. Randy Orton vs. Edge
WrestleMania 23 · April 1, 2007_
*Rating:* ****

Excellent match with everyone having their moment in the match; Kennedy was so over here and was the right victor (until his suspension), Edge played the dastardly heel so well once again, Jeff Hardy had the major highlight here with the BIG LEGDROP from one of the bigger ladders onto Edge who was prone on the horizontal ladder on the outside. Crowd loved it and so did I! Punk was so good in this match and I loved his part where he avoided Edge's Spear, where the latter was on a roll hitting everyone with his finisher. King Booker chose to protect his wife rather than win the briefcase was a nice little touch in the match. Action everywhere and a good opener for the show.

*Money in the Bank Ladder Match*_
Chris Jericho vs. Shelton Benjamin vs. John Morrison vs. Carlito vs. CM Punk vs. MVP vs. Mr. Kennedy
WrestleMania XXIV · March 30, 2008_
*Rating:* ****1/4

One of the best Money in the Bank matches in the series, it had it all; creative and innovative spots, big moves, a really fast pace, cool visuals with the way the ladders were set up for the spots, the incredible dives and so on. This was a spotfest but one that was done so well. Morrison and Benjamin had some crazy spots in this one; the Moonsault with the Ladder from Morrison and the huge flip onto the ladder on the outside by Benjamin. Kennedy had a purpose here after not being able to cash in his MITB briefcase the year prior, MVP was the sneaky heel that tried to win it when everyone was down only for a VERY OVER Matt Hardy to return and take him out. Jericho was typical Jericho - entertaining to watch and Carlito had some great moments also (THAT BACKSTABBER OFF THE LADDER). This one is remembered for being the more creative MITB Ladder match in a long while and the spots worked.

*Money in the Bank Ladder Match*_
CM Punk vs. Kofi Kingston vs. MVP vs. Finlay vs. Christian vs. Kane vs. Shelton Benjamin vs. Mark Henry
WrestleMania 25 · April 5, 2009_
*Rating:* ****

Another great MITB opener for the WrestleMania show, which is most memorable for Kofi Kingston this time stealing the show. Some of his spots were so cool and unbelievable to watch and it only added to the rating of the match. I absolutely loved the spot where he jumped through the set up ladder with the Dropkick and then brought the ladder crashing down on his unfortunate foe. Also loved the part where he climbed the ladder as Henry tried to set it up and then Henry caught him in the World's Strongest Slam onto the ladder. Finlay was once again great here working stiff with all his adversaries, Benjamin had his usual big high flying spots, Christian was the one people wanted to win and some of the fans were disappointed with Punk winning it but it would go on to the great heel Punk a few months later. MVP did well and had more to work with as the babyface in this match and Kane and Henry also performed well and I liked the _"Parting of the Ladders"_ moment. Awesome match.

*Money in the Bank Ladder Match*_
Kane vs. Christian vs. Kofi Kingston vs. MVP vs. Matt Hardy vs. Shelton Benjamin vs. Evan Bourne vs. Drew McIntyre vs. Jack Swagger vs. Dolph Ziggler_
*Rating:* ***1/2

Maybe the weakest of the series for for many, it had some impressive spots and Bourne was the one that had the best spots for me but the Kofi spots in this one were a bit more over the top, but still pretty cool to watch. I don't think this one flows as well compared to the other MITB matches and it does suffer from a botched finish but still, it has some great spots and it a solid, fun match to watch.

*SmackDown Money in the Bank Ladder Match*_
Big Show vs. Kane vs. Kofi Kingston vs. Christian vs. Matt Hardy vs. Drew McIntyre vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Cody Rhodes
Money in the Bank · July 18, 2010_
*Rating:* ****1/4

I slightly preferred this one over the Raw MITB ladder match, I haven't actually watched these matches in a long while so it was a real treat to watch them again after so long. I just think the spots were better here and I loved some of the false finishes where it felt like at one point Kofi would win it, then Hardy, then Christian. Everyone did their job well, it had a really fast, crazy pace to the match from start to finish. I also liked the HUGE re-enforced ladder that was used by Big Show, it brought more intrigue to the match and the BIG KOFI LEGDROP OFF THE LADDER onto Drew was amazing. It would also lead to the quickest cash-in so far where Kane cashed in his briefcase that same night against Rey Mysterio. This also felt like one of the longer MITB matches in the series.

*Raw Money in the Bank Ladder Match*_
Randy Orton vs. John Morrison vs. Evan Bourne vs. Mark Henry vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. The Miz vs. Ted DiBiase
Money in the Bank · July 18, 2010_
*Rating:* ***3/4

Another thrilling match to watch and although not as good as the SmackDown one, it still had some fantastic moments and a lot of the superstars involved in this one had some memorable moments. Morrison and Bourne were the big spot deliverers in this one, The Miz won and showed how overjoyed he was at the end, loved the serious tone he gave in his post-match promo. Also thought the Maryse bit was a cool moment where she tried to get the briefcase, a nice visual to see. Really great match to put The Miz over as the next growing star.

*SmackDown Money in the Bank Ladder Match*_
Kane vs. Sin Cara vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus vs. Wade Barrett vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Justin Gabriel vs. Heath Slater
Money in the Bank · July 17, 2011_
*Rating:* ****

The fantastic matches continue and once again this match features a lot of crazy spots and really brutal looking moves; the Sheamus Powerbomb to Sin Cara through the ladder was sickening but awesome, Bryan was his tenacious self in this one and was starting to pick up momentum with the fans, Gabriel had a few big moves in this one and Rhodes and Barrett also looked great. The finish was wild and would lead to one of the better finishes of the MITB ladder match series with the resilient Bryan using all his kicks and submissions on the ladder to win it. 

*Raw Money in the Bank Ladder Match*_ 
Rey Mysterio vs. Kofi Kingston vs. Alex Riley vs. Evan Bourne vs. Alberto Del Rio vs. The Miz vs. R-Truth vs. Jack Swagger
Money in the Bank · July 17, 2011_
*Rating:* ****

I really can't decide which MITB ladder match I preferred on MITB 2011 PPV so I've settled with both being FOUR STARS. This one was different to the SmackDown one with the ending being completely different with Del Rio removing Rey's mask. It was slightly botched but it still pulled off a great win for Del Rio - loved the part where he just pushes Rey onto the other ladder who landed quite hard on his sternum. Rey was so focused on covering his face he didn't even try to go after Del Rio, which was funny. Bourne and Kofi this time were the ones with the big spots. A really fun match to continue the impressive array of ladder matches WWE have put on year after year.

*Money in the Bank Ladder Match for a World Heavyweight Championship Contract*_
Christian vs. Sin Cara vs. Santino Marella vs. Tyson Kidd vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Tensai vs. Damien Sandow
Money in the Bank · July 15, 2012_
*Rating:* ****

Wow! This was a good match and one I haven't seen since and to be honest, it was incredible to watch again. There was a lot more story to this one; everyone being taken out by Tensai and trying everything they could to eliminate him from the match, Marella being afraid of heights, Christian trying to finally win a MITB match, Ziggler starting to be elevated further up the card with the aid of Vicki Guerrero. Spots galore in this one and a match I can't wait to watch again.

*Money in the Bank Ladder Match for a WWE Championship Contract*_
John Cena vs. Kane vs. Big Show vs. Chris Jericho vs. The Miz
Money in the Bank · July 15, 2012_
*Rating:* ***1/4

This one is most likely the weakest (it is for me) MITB ladder matches from the series. It was obvious who was going to win this one, I was also annoyed with the commentators (*cough* Cole *cough*) treating the fans like idiots by being astonished by Big Show's re-enforced ladder returning and making out they've never seen it before. I always hate when the WWE make out things have happened for the first ever time when we've witnessed it before. This one did have an interesting story as only former WWE Champions were allowed to feature/qualify in this match. This one had a slower pace but it was still a good match, not as good as its predecessor but still, it was fun to watch and the finish was executed well. 

*Money in the Bank Ladder Match for a World Heavyweight Championship Contract*_
Cody Rhodes vs. Dean Ambrose vs. Wade Barrett vs. Damien Sandow vs. Jack Swagger vs. Antonio Cesaro vs. Fandango
Money in the Bank · July 14, 2013_
*Rating:* ****1/4

Loved, loved, loved this one and probably the one that contained spot after spot at such a fast pace but each spot looked fascinating and really added to the match. This match featured the growing dissension between Sandow and Rhodes, which improves the overall rating to the match even more especially taking into account the fantastic ending. Ambrose was brilliant in this one and I loved the _"skinning the cat"_ spot on the ladder only for him to be disposed of out of the ring whilst still perched on the ladder. Fandango also looked great in this one and Cesaro was stiff as ever. The spots were perfect in this one and the match finished with one of my favourite endings in a MITB match ever. Cody was simply the greatest in this one!

*Money in the Bank Ladder Match for a WWE Championship Contract*_
CM Punk vs. Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Randy Orton vs. Christian vs. Rob Van Dam
Money in the Bank · July 14, 2013_
*Rating:* ****

Fantastic match to end the set and although I prefer the World Heavyweight Championship ladder match to this one (only slightly), that is not taking away or detracting the quality of this MITB match. RVD made his long-anticipated return (although not being triumphant here) and looked on point with all of his spots in this one. Bryan was brilliant and I enjoyed his few minutes of dominance in this one, especially the Suicide Dive to the outside. This also had Punk being betrayed in the end by Paul Heyman which everyone knew was going to happen but it was still a shocking moment. The match did slow down in the end and it did fall a bit flat when Orton won (Punk and Bryan were the fan favourites here) but still, an enthralling, amazing match.

The Blu-Ray exclusives are a nice touch also with pretty much all of the MITB cash-in's, the Edge and Punk's ones being my favourite and the most shocking ones (although Rollins would take that also if this set was released after WrestleMania 31). This is a really fun, enjoyable set to get with some fun, innovative and classic ladder matches and one I'd most certainly recommend to anyone, especially those who enjoy the Ladder matches (like I do).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Arn Anderson & Bobby Eaton vs. The Steiner Brothers (WCW SuperBrawl 1992)*

x2onmlm

*Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat (WCW Saturday Night 5.14.1994)*

x2onwll

Didn't realise this went that long TBH.

*Ric Flair vs. Terry Funk (Great American Bash 1989)*

x2oo551

*Road Warriors, Midnight Express & Steve Williams vs. Freebirds & Samoan Swat Team (WarGames) (Great American Bash 1989)*

x2ot4r7

As requested.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Brock said:


> *Arn Anderson & Bobby Eaton vs. The Steiner Brothers (WCW SuperBrawl 1992)*
> 
> x2onmlm
> 
> ...


:bow


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

(Y) That last video should fully encode soon, sometimes takes a while on DM.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Man, if it didn't have such a bad ending, the Flair/Steamboat Saturday Night match would be almost as good as the trilogy. And that just goes to show how amazing the trilogy was.

Decent Smackdown wrestling-wise. Harper/Ryback was a short but fun bout. Tag title rematch was very good and it was not just a rehash of spots from their PPV match. Go watch it. Main event was also fun although I don't like the idea of having Rollins and Ambrose face each other again on a Smackdown.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

LOVE LOVE their 1994 matches tbh, the spring stampede and SN are tremendous


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Spring Stampede always just felt like a carbon copy of '89. Even the finish is exactly the same as the Clash match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Anyone catch Smackdown this week? Been too busy watching the draft but I hear they ran Ambrose/Rollins in the main event plus the Tag Titles rematch.


----------



## Biblet2014 (Jul 11, 2014)

So I've decided that I'm going to try to go through a certain year of WCW or ECW etc and try to review all PPV matches of a title and decided to start with the Cruiserweight title in 1997.

Btw until I get the network renewed does anyone know if Dailymotion has a lot of these matches? The only one I could fine on YT was the Havoc Guerrero Rey match.

Halloween Havoc 97 Cruiserweight Title Match: Rey Misterio Jr. VS Eddie Guerrero

I though that this was a really good match that the announcing helped some, weak points were basically just all of the resting in the middle (Come on guys were already moving slow two minuets in?) but other than that it was a really good match.

****1/2

Any requests on what company/title year next?


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

NWA United States Tag Team Championship circa 1990.

Don't hate me for the first PPV match on the year when you see it, btw.


----------



## Biblet2014 (Jul 11, 2014)

*Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues &amp; Bobby Eaton*



Hayley Seydoux said:


> NWA United States Tag Team Championship circa 1990.
> 
> Don't hate me for the first PPV match on the year when you see it, btw.



Alrighty will check it out later today, might as well do something while I can't watch all of the Cruiserweight lol.

Return of the Robocop :mark:

Edit: just read on Wikipedia that 1990 had only one PPV Title Match huh, 20 minutes for the tag titles though.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Well, it is The Midnight Express vs. The Southern Boys. one of the greatest ever American tag team matches. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Biblet2014 said:


> Alrighty will check it out later today, might as well do something while I can't watch all of the Cruiserweight lol.
> 
> Return of the Robocop :mark:
> 
> ...


Four.

1) Brian Pillman & Tom Zenk(c) vs Fabulous Freebirds - WrestleWar 1990

2) Brian Pillman & Tom Zenk(c) vs Midnight Express - Capitol Combat - Return of Robocop

3) Midnight Express(c) vs Southern Boys - Great American Bash 1990

4) Steiner Brothers(c) vs Nasty Boys - Halloween Havoc 1990



Brock said:


> Well, it is The Midnight Express vs. The Southern Boys. one of the greatest ever American tag team matches. :mark:


^^^^^^

aka my whole agenda.


----------



## Biblet2014 (Jul 11, 2014)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Four.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Crap I just realized looking at the title reigns dosent equal all matches, sorry bout that lol.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

*Sheamus vs Luke Harper (12/11/2014 Paris)* - 2014 - a year for nostalgia. Sheamus was face, The Wyatts were still a great bunch of misfits, wrestling was great and Black Ref was still around.

I'd love to know who the agent/producer for The Wyatt's matches is. After their slew of of tags against The Shield, and their brilliant house show matches (whether single or in tags), I cannot help but view the individual responsible for all this greatness as one of the best minds in the business today. Every spot, here, was seamless. Case in point, Harper would gut-punch the living shit out of Sheamus, who'd coil in pain, directly into Harper's underarm for a suplex. Even Rowan's interference and eventual ejection was built into a brilliant hope-spot for Sheamus and his signature Beats of the Bodhrán (his clubs to a rope-hung opponent, for those who don't talk WWE-styled ponce). I normally consider Sheamus' setups for the move to be well-varied, but catching Harper having a bitch-fit over his partner being thrown out was brilliant stuff.

The finishing stretch did veer off a little too much into the you-me-you trope of house show styled matches, but this was an unashamed house show opener so that'd be a needless criticism, even if it is one that is still valid. It's almost a tad disappointing that this was in the slot it was given. An opener has a difficult line to walk in sparking up a crowd yet not giving away too much in over-shadowing the matches to come. Judging by the chemistry these two possess, and the ideas on display, a lengthy Main Event showcasing should produce a MotYC; and not one of those jokey NJPW nominations that end up flooding the Other Section, a bonafide contender. But we're in 2015, waiting and wishing on snowflakes just gets you hypothermia.



I'll just stick to asking the important question here, who was The Wyatt's agent/producer?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I know The Shield's agent was the one and only Joseph Mercury. I think it's a fair assumption that he worked with the Wyatts too, but this is all just speculation.

Rah did you check out this Shield vs. Team Hell No + Sheamus house show match in Taiwan? 2013 had a lot of nice house show bouts, and I remember this one in particular being loads of fun. There's a moment in the match where Ambrose jumps on the back of Bryan and puts on a sleeper hold. Afterwards, Bryan has Ambrose on his back and slowly walks towards his corner. For every footstep that Bryan took, the crowd chanted "YES!" along with it. So much fun.

Might as well embed the video:


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Hazarding a guess, then, that it's Jamie Noble? I'm sure I read that ages back but Google doesn't verify it. Will get onto that match tomorrow. (Y)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Rah said:


> Hazarding a guess, then, that it's Jamie Noble? I'm sure I read that ages back but Google doesn't verify it. Will get onto that match tomorrow. (Y)


My other guess would be Mike Rotunda, seeing as Bray is his son and all. But I do know for a fact Joey Mercury is the agent for all the Shield guys matches, so in any Shield/Wyatts match I'm sure he had a lot of say in it.

The main events are usually Michael Hayes, Arn Anderson, and Pat Patterson (if it's a really big deal).


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Four.
> 
> 1) Brian Pillman & Tom Zenk(c) vs Fabulous Freebirds - WrestleWar 1990
> 
> ...


If the Freebirds match is the one from the _Brian Pillman: Loose Cannon_ DVD set, then I can't remember if it's much to write home about. But Midnights/Southern Boys is a certified classic, and Midnights/Pillman & Zenk is, for my money, every bit as good; both are quite a bit better than any Midnights/Rock & Rolls match I've seen. Steiners/Nastys rules the proverbial school as well, albeit not quite as much. The Steiners seem to be kind of out of fashion when one talks about the all-time great tag teams, but let it be known that they're responsible for the Nasty Boys' one legit great match that isn't a garbage brawl.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I uploaded two damn videos on DM this morning........11 hours later and they still havn't bloody encoded. I swear im giving up soon. Useless.

Anyway, yeah Steiners/Nasties i have banged on about a million times on here, i fucking love and always will do, and i love it as much as any other tag match TBH, including Japan stuff, it's just one match i can switch on a fall in love with wrestling again.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Anybody know if/where I can find the fourth match in the Paul London/Akio series in better quality than the blur that passes for it on YouTube? I found some caps of the first three on DM that are more than acceptable (especially for B-show matches from 2004-'05), but sadly the guy who upped them didn't finish the series.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ditch DM Brock, Dailymotion has been awful for me for yrs, so I try my hardest not to go on, resulting in me not enjoying your uploads :kobe3


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

little playlist i put together to relax and watch 



Nitro - 10-06-1997 - Eddie Guerrero vs Ultimo Dragon For Cruiserweight Title
by Guns13NRoses
8:00 More

WCW Thunder (1998) - Billy Kidman vs. Kaz Hayashi (Cruiserweight Title)
by indievocal
12:05 More

WCW Nitro (1998) - Billy Kidman vs. Rey Mysterio Jr. - Cruiserweight Title
by indievocal
14:57 More

FULL-LENGTH MATCH - Raw - Razor Ramon vs. Rick Martel - Intercontinental Championship Match
by WWE
15:12 More

Yoshihiro Tajiri vs. Steve Corino - ECW Hardcore Heaven 2000
by Steve Corino
13:49 More

FULL-LENGTH MATCH - Raw - Bret Hart & British Bulldog vs. Owen Hart & Jim Neidhart
by WWE
16:05 More

Clash of the Champions IX 11 15 1989 Ric Flair vs Terry Funk I Quit match xvid
by ojoj khil
20:06 More

Roddy Piper vs "Mr. Perfect" 1991
by WWE
15:18 More

Cactus Jack vs. Sabu ECW Holiday Hell '95
by joel maqueira
15:46 More

(04.20.1998) WCW Monday Nitro Pt. 9 - La Parka vs. Ultimo Dragon
by WCWNitro049
8:33 More

The Rockers vs. The Brainbusters (WWF 1989)
by skihippy
18:48 More
WATCHED 
Jeff Jarrett vs Scott Steiner vs Kevin Nash vs Goldberg WCW
by ninbo15
10:14 More

Raw is War | Ken Shamrock vs Big Boss Man vs Mankind | Hardcore Championship Match | 11 - 23 - 98
by WWEFoleyisGod
11:14 More

Nick Bockwinkel vs Stan Hansen part 1
by DotDotkins
8:27 More

Nick Bockwinkel vs Stan Hansen part 2
by DotDotkins
7:38 More

8 Man Lucha Libre Tag Match - Clash of the Champions 8/21/97 (HQ)
by ScottHall222
7:13 More

Zack Ryder's Iced 3 - May 2013, US Title - Curt Hennig vs DDP 10/13/97 - FULL MATCH
by WWE
11:17 More

Team Angle vs Team Lesnar Survivor Series 2003
by Szczurek PL
21:23 More

WWE Summerslam 2013 CM Punk Vs Brock Lesnar
by NewCOD
36:41 More

WWE Wrestlemania 29 Undertaker Vs CM Punk
by NewCOD
33:14 More

Ric Flair & Arn Anderson vs Vader & Steve Austin Saturday Night Nov 13th, 1993
by MonsoonClassic
14:41 More

WWE Monday Night Raw 17.02.1997 Bret Hart vs Psycho Sid by WNS TV
by Dave88321
14:13 More

WWE Wrestlemania 25 - The Undertaker vs "HBK" Shawn Michaels Full length Match
by Raw TV
34:44 More

WWE Wrestlemania 27 Undertaker vs Triple H Full Match HD
by fulltime wrestling
40:47 More

Wrestlemania Classics: The Rock Vs Stone Cold Part 1 Wrestlemania 19
by Infamous Nathan
9:41 More

Wrestlemania Classics The Rock Vs Stone Cold Wrestlemania 19 Part 2
by Infamous Nathan
9:39 More
WATCHED 
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Eddie Guerrero - 10/26/1997
by WWE
14:00 More


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

That Sheamus/Harper is :lenny

I don't usually watch live events, as it's really hard to find quality recordings of full matches, but ones like this give you a more raw and stripped-down version of the show and also give you that sense of "being there" with the crowd. French crowd was excellent, with all their idiosyncratic "Woo-ing" instead of booing :lol 

Match was really good all the way through, and again the sense of being with the crowd giving you their perspective - you see how important little gestural things like holding the hand out is during a submission and how almost nothing but the loudest in-ring vocals are heard by most of the crowd. Body language people.

I particularly loved how Harper got the sense after the headlock that the crowd was just going to go back to clapping if he slapped it on again, and since that's not what he wanted at the moment, he just starts clubbin' on Sheamus to expel the premature-hope before ramping it back up again. Also, wrestling is universal, and I can dig it. Excellent stuff.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bruce L said:


> If the Freebirds match is the one from the _Brian Pillman: Loose Cannon_ DVD set, then I can't remember if it's much to write home about. But Midnights/Southern Boys is a certified classic, and Midnights/Pillman & Zenk is, for my money, every bit as good; both are quite a bit better than any Midnights/Rock & Rolls match I've seen. Steiners/Nastys rules the proverbial school as well, albeit not quite as much. The Steiners seem to be kind of out of fashion when one talks about the all-time great tag teams, but let it be known that they're responsible for the Nasty Boys' one legit great match that isn't a garbage brawl.


It's not. That match from Pillman's set is the finals where Pillman & Zenk originally win the straps while vacated. The defense on PPV is the rematch and it is rather awful considering it goes 24 minutes when it absolutely had no business doing so. Just, way, way, way too long.

I love the Midnight Express vs Pillman & Zenk match. Better than anything vs Rock N'Roll Express though? I wouldn't agree. Maybe one, but for all of the known matches, the Midnights vs RNR always was a series of great, very exciting matches. Basically though, all of these matches talked about in this paragraph rule. w/the constant being the Midnights; especially Eaton.

Midnight Express vs Southern Boys is my favorite WCW match ever. Says it all for my thoughts on it.

I actually quite enjoy the Nasty Boys. I don't spout off "underrated" much, but I feel they are. They knew what they were def privy towards and stuck w/it. A darn good tag team w/a list of darn good matches under their belt. Some not even remotely close to a brawl.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

*Re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues &amp; Bobby Eaton*

Wow, watched Neville/Kidd from 5/29/14 NXT: Takeover, and was blown away.

I was half paying attention to NXT comments here when they happened because I wasn't watching, but I think I remember a few people being negative on it. Why?! 

I haven't been this excited about a wrestling match in years. Last one that made that kind of impression on me was Del/Rio Ziggler at Payback. This just got me enthusiastic about wrestling again. I was engrossed in every second of that match, and there was so much thought put into that match, and those two performers were so perfectly suited for their roles.

I love when something takes you totally by surprise. For me, it had everything you could possibly want in a match, and it shows you that people who are negatively judging Neville on supposed bad ring psychology & storytelling, don't know what they're talking about.

That was phenomenal, and Tyson was pretty much perfect in his role as vet. Really showed me something special here.

I think I heard some people complain about headlocks, which seems ridiculous to me, as they weren't excessive at all, IMO. I was weary of that going in, actually, based on the comments. Makes me feel like people complain about them any time they ever appear.

In any event, I can't rave enough about that match.


Does anyone have the Bo Dallas/Neville 3/27/14 NXT match? That episode on the network isn't working.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

There were a few of us in here who liked the match a good margin, myself included. It just had the feel of a quality main event that told a good story and didn't go overboard. *** 3/4 for me and I thought Zayn/Breeze from the same show was even better. Really liked that NXT special. Charlotte/Natalya is overrated though (but still enjoyable).

The only thing I can remember as to why people didn't like the match is because they don't like Tyson Kidd. Idk


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Someone link me to a sub-10 minute match with 2 beefie bastards beating the shit out of each other, that I might not have seen already please . Need to unwind from a stressful day with something fun .

Oh hey, my BLOGS~! have new posts! Backlash 2006 PPV Ramble on both sites, and "Big Cal Grows His Own Girlfriend" video on www.bigcalsworld.co.uk .

Starting a new weekly series based on wrestling, hopefully this week. Need to re-record it cos I hated the first take. It's gonna be INTERACTIVE too so hopefully all you lazy shites... uhhh I mean LOVELY PEOPLE :side: will get involved .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Cal grows his own girlfriend. Watch it ends up being Chyna. That's Cal's luck.


----------



## LaMelo (Jan 13, 2015)

I'd date Chyna. :done


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

What a fucking gem, if don't have much time and you want a quick easy entertainment, look at this segment, it's just gold.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

just rummaged through the media section here and am downloading these:

The Rockers vs. The Hart Foundation - (Ft. Wayne 10/30/90) (Brock)

Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle (Summerslam 2001) (Brock)

2012 TLC - The Shield vs. Team Hell No/Ryback

Raw March 27, 1995 - Owen Hart vs. Bret Hart (No Holds Barred)

Raw May 28, 2001 - Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Chris Benoit

Raw March 20, 2000 - Triple H vs. Big Show vs. The Rock


Raw April 30, 2007 - Edge vs. Randy Orton

Vengeance 2003 - Worlds Greatest Tag Team vs. Rey Mysterio & Billy Kidman

King of the Ring 2000 - Kurt Angle vs. Chris Jericho (KOTR Quarter-Finals Match)

wcw Mayhem 1999 - Jeff Jarrett vs. Chris Benoit (WCW World Title Semi-Finals Match)

TNA Lockdown 2012 - Bobby Roode vs. James Storm

TNA Bound For Glory 2011 - Kurt Angle vs. Bobby Roode


would love to download this one, but the links down 

https://hotfile.com/dl/197232092/571c746/Triple-H_vs_Chris_Jericho_-_Fully_Loaded2000.avi.html


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Id reupload, but it won't be for a couple of weeks. 

Mind you, Cal has super-duper internet. :side: Saying that Kenny, havn't you got the network?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

nah only had it for that month so i could watch wrestlemania


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)




----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well that saves me time .

Oh and I totally saw your attempts to embed that, Rah . Congrats on eventually getting it right :lmao.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:mark:


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

I'm watching the Royal Rumble 2015 match. Ya know, for the LOLZ.

That reaction for Bryan :banderas :yes

Eliminating Bryan after 10 minutes ut

For almost every fan the Road to Wrestlemania wrote itself. You would think that it was so clear and easy that they couldn't possibly fuck it up. But, ya know. WWE. 

I love the long, uninterrupted boos for Reigns as soon as he makes his entrance. I love listening to a legit angry crowd shitting all over the drivel that's in front of them. 

And that ending? The way Show and Kane slowly and lazily eliminate the likes of Ziggler, Ambrose, and Wyatt. Wyatt spent the majority of the match dominating people and looking really strong. It all builds to....nothing. Nothing at all. He's just placed over the top ropes and forgotten. What was the point? 

You just know that Vince was sat backstage thinking that the crowd would react really strongly and give Kane and Big Show loads of good heel heat which would in turn get everyone on side with Reigns. Yeah, no deal to that one. It was badly executed, using two heels who haven't been relevant and who crowds haven't cared about for years. Add to that the ridiculously obvious chosen one that nobody liked and you have a recipe for disaster.

I just sat there chuckling at the fact that Rocky got a huge pop because the crowd love him, which quickly turned to boos when it was clear he was endorsing Reigns. But true to form, Rock always seems to recover from these terrible moments. I thought he'd killed his popularity after Mania 29 when he hugged Cena and passed the torch but then he pops up a year later at Mania 30 and blows the roof off. Anyways, I thought that he'd done it again this year with this disgusting display but then he comes out at Mania 31 and everyone loves him again. The Rock rules the world ha.

Anyways, I'm rambling. The rumble match itself is ok I guess. DDP hitting the Diamond Cutter a few times was cool; there was a little bit of hope when Mizdow came out, even though that was snuffed out within 2 mins. Same with Ambrose, Ziggler etc. The ending gets ***** for the hilarity.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rewatched Reigns/Show LMS last night. Settling on *** for it. I'm not quite sure if the work during the match deserves that, but I just had way too much fun watching Big Show's performance to bad mouth anything from it. The only things I could complain about were Reigns' weak ass chair shots and the actual finish (I think it should've ended after the spear through the announce table), but other than that there was plenty to like. Big Show had an incredible character performance throughout the match with his constant "I'M A GIANT!" and yelling to the crowd and announcers. I liked how for a while he refused to use weapons because his hands were enough to get the job done (at least in his mind). Really liked Reigns' selling post-chokeslam bump. That probably went unnoticed on the live watch. So yeah, I liked this match and really liked Extreme Rules as a whole (other than Cena/Rusev). (Y)

Did anyone watch the Jericho podcast with Stephanie? Completely forgot it was happening.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Rewatched Reigns/Show LMS last night. Settling on *** for it. I'm not quite sure if the work during the match deserves that, but I just had way too much fun watching Big Show's performance to bad mouth anything from it. The only things I could complain about were Reigns' weak ass chair shots and the actual finish (I think it should've ended after the spear through the announce table), but other than that there was plenty to like. Big Show had an incredible character performance throughout the match with his constant "I'M A GIANT!" and yelling to the crowd and announcers. I liked how for a while he refused to use weapons because his hands were enough to get the job done (at least in his mind). Really liked Reigns' selling post-chokeslam bump. That probably went unnoticed on the live watch. So yeah, I liked this match and really liked Extreme Rules as a whole (other than Cena/Rusev). (Y)
> 
> Did anyone watch the Jericho podcast with Stephanie? Completely forgot it was happening.


I watched it. It was OK for what it was, a casual chat between two people who have good chemistry. Nothing really challenging from Jericho, but it was ok.

I have no doubt that Austin would've maybe asked one or two hard hitting questions, but what can you do. They're a fun way to kill an hour.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah I figured that was exactly how it was gonna go down. I just can't get too excited about those podcasts with Jericho as host instead of Austin. It just feels like they're all gonna super fun time with trips down memory lane. :lol


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Yeah I figured that was exactly how it was gonna go down. I just can't get too excited about those podcasts with Jericho as host instead of Austin. It just feels like they're all gonna super fun time with trips down memory lane. :lol


That's exactly what it was. The most interesting question he asked Stephanie was if she was angry at AJ for that tweet about treating women better in the company. That, and it was fun to hear about how angry Vince was backstage in 2001 when they were in Chicago and Rock said "motherfucker" on live TV.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Just watched Zayn/Neville from 12/11/14 Takeover: R Evolution and it was incredible. 

The ending felt anti-climatic to me, though. I get the storytelling with the belt, it's just that the ending move didn't seem like enough to me. I know it's Sami's thing, but maybe I'm just thinking of Cesaro's big boot and then him going into the Neutralizer. Felt like it needed a bit more in that moment. 

Small criticism, though, as the match was great. Took me double the time to watch, because I kept rewinding stuff.

Neville has some sick, sick, uppercuts in this match. Hope to see more of that in the WWE.


Also watched this fun 5 minute sprint of Neville's (Pac) vs. Taguchi in NJPW:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xswko6_ryusuke-taguchi-vs-pac-bosj-semi-finals-2012_sport

Can't imagine a big US company not using barricades, lol.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

@LilOlMe, you seen the main event from Takeover: Fatal 4-Way yet? Thought it was legit incredible and far and away my favorite match from NXT last year. I bought into so many of the nearfalls and the ending was legendary.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

Stephanie podcast was just okay, too much business stuff for my taste.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fighter Daron said:


> What a fucking gem, if don't have much time and you want a quick easy entertainment, look at this segment, it's just gold.


Remember reliving this last year. It's like the only time the Angle Invitational wasn't stupid. And ended up being awesome. Hearing the commentary shout "Roderick Strong" - it finally happened. :mj2


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

Oh, that slap was gold. 

Strong said in his Best Friends Highspots shoot interview that Angle said to him before the match: "Hey man, don't try anything out there, I have a counter for everything". And he said he slapped Angle so hard that he made him legitimaly mad, he said Angle bite him in the back of the head while he was kicking his shit.

Kurt Angle is nuts :lol


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Cesaro & Kidd vs. New Day from _Extreme Rules_ (not _Payback_, for anybody who made that mistake) was so freaking entertaining. This is my first time seeing the "clueless heel" version of New Day, rather than the "not-really-working face" version, and I adore them in this role (even Kofi, who I didn't think could be a heel to save his life). Xavier Woods especially seems to have found his natural niche, and he's excellent in it. "What did we do?! We're _winning!!!_" Brilliant. And Cesaro and Kidd are what they are, and that is awesome.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cesaro seems to be absolutely relishing in this new face role he & Kidd have came into. He seems more energized and works harder than what we've seen from him the past few months. The crowd fucking LOVES him (even though we already knew that). Kidd fits better into a babyface position too.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

As someone who absolutely adored Claudio Castagnoli as a face, I'm very excited for the idea of an extended face run for Cesaro. Dare I hope for a "Hey!" renaissance?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That Ambrose/Rollins match was so good that they made me switch from the Bulls/Cavs game.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Ambrose/Rollins was awesome. Going **** on it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rollins & Ambrose just tore the house down AGAIN on RAW! I'm only going *** 1/2 but I loved it.

So damn hyped for that Payback main event now. I mean, I know Rollins is winning because he's eating way too many pinfalls right now, but the match should be awesome!


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> @LilOlMe, you seen the main event from Takeover: Fatal 4-Way yet? Thought it was legit incredible and far and away my favorite match from NXT last year. I bought into so many of the nearfalls and the ending was legendary.


Yes, what I've been doing is watching all of the NXT matches that Meltzer has rated 3 stars or more from 2014 on.

http://officialfan.proboards.com/thread/521540/meltzers-top-ranked-nxt-matches?page=1

Though imperfect, it's a pretty useful way to catch up on quality matches.

I've watched everything but the women's four way (going to tomorrow) & the 3/27/15 matches. Could someone tell me if those haven't aired yet, though? 'Cause there is no 3/27/15 episode on the network.


> 3/27 – Charlotte vs. Sasha Banks (C) (4 stars)
> 3/27 – Adrian Neville vs. Finn Balor (3.5 stars)


The men's four way for the title was a lot of fun. The first few minutes were boring, but then it got really good. I love how they kept Neville out of it for most of the match, especially considering the ending.

When he got knocked off the top rope, I literally lol'ed, but I wish that had happened right as the crowd was at a climax, thinking that he was FINALLY about to do something. IIRC, he did get into the match right before that. I would have waited on that just a little bit longer, because the rope spot would have driven people even more nuts.

Love Zayn's facial expressions, btw.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Damn my soft heart. I dislike Ryback, but I felt bad for him when the crowd was giving him a hard time. People so rarely get big spotlight moments, that he must have been thinking "the crowd is going to fuck up one of my few chances." He even said "if you ignore it, they'll keep doing it", which seems so obviously directed at Vince. Vince must have told him to just ignore it.

I feel bad seeing people treated like shit usually, especially when you can tell that it really hurts them. Maybe I'm just in a sensitive mood today, because I even felt bad for Reigns when they were chanting "we want Randy" so loudly. A lot of times it's not meant as an insult to the person in the ring, but this time it seemed like in addition to genuinely cheering for Randy, they were really trying to shit on Reigns.

Eh, I should just remind myself that someone like Harper can't even get a push, so I shouldn't feel that much sympathy for Ryback.

Also, the bookers are so stupid. This crowd was hot for Wyatt. Send him out there, even if it involves a change of plans!


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Does anyone know if the 2/6/14 match between Neville and Corey Graves is any good?

Graves intrigues me. Is he good as a wrestler?

Also, will ask again if anyone has 3/27/14 Bo Dallas/Neville match. 

Loved the looks on the Ascension's faces when Balor debuted his new entrance, btw. On the negative side, they stomp A LOT. That's like 90% of their matches. I want to like them, and I do if I make them what I like in my head, lol, but their matches leave much to be desired.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

3/27 was the date of the NXT live event from Mania weekend, so I'm not sure how Meltzer has star ratings for those unless he was in attendance. 

I too felt bad for Ryback during his promo. It was terrible placement and no one in the crowd wants to hear him speak. He just needs to slam people around. 

Never got to see Graves work, unfortunately.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

John Cena vs. Sami Zayn! Tune in motherfuckers!!!


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

If this gets time and Cena minds his spacing/doesn't overdo the expressions here, potential MOTYC


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Terrible ending, but great debut for Zayn.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

That would make a good Cena/Angle I esque launching point for Zayn if they keep him up. Skeptical, but would be a good idea. Some missed opportunities for the finish and perhaps the nerves got Zayn a little sloppy in the first half, but that match did start to gel in the second half pretty nicely. Not quite what I thought it'd be, but solid contest.

Edit: Wonder who takes the belt off Cena eventually? Tempted to say a debuting Owens, but I could see Owens being molded for the "Lesnar of NXT" for a while. Perhaps they revisit this very match later and the result is a surprise win for Zayn. Knowing the current WWE, it will be some safe, generic option through a protected finish.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

ZAYN DA YOUNG GAWD!

Good showing for Zayn, though :lol at at that injury angle 2 minutes into the match. I guess they gotta let casual viewers know that Zayn's an underdog who fights through pain no matter how bad it is.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm pretty sure Zayn legit got hurt and they had to call all the spots throughout because there's no way the match was structured like that beforehand. That was so bizarre and so... not that great. A massive missed opportunity on what could've been an incredible match.

New Day celebrating all night. :lol


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

A good opening segment, 2 solid matches with what should be a pretty good one underway, a little spotlight to supporting casts tonight, nothing egregious, pretty damn funny work from New Day all night, some advancement.. When was the last time a Raw accomplished all this?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Ambrose/Rollins was the best match I've ever seen live in person. Being the Ambrose mark I am, I lost it when he won. Amazing.

Same with Zayn's debut. Fucking nuts. 

What a show. Best Raw I've ever been to. :mark: Ambrose!!! :mark:


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Ambrose in the title picture, Zayn wrestling John Cena, Cesaro looking strong, fuck I'm so hard.

Daniel Bryan though


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I can't even.

I mean the show was still awful, but that golden 25 minutes. It will live w/me forever. The emotion is too much.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Read something about Zayn going for an MRI after the show.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He did. I'm really, really trying to not let that upset me. But it's true. Makes this possible one-off almost too risky when he has the upcoming match vs Steen. Even if to hear a crowd pop like that was kind of worth it.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

raw sounds awesome

i'm going to go watch it now


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Hey I might actually watch most of a RAW for once.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Absolutely rotten luck. Seems he hurt himself psyching up the crowd. Cena, noticing the injury, delivered the Protobomb to give them an angle to work off of. Hopefully this doesn't play into a certain bias (and belief of injury prone "Indy darlings") of a certain someone...


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Raw was great. Filled with great matches. The amount of talent on the roster is insane, potential match ups that can be had too. 

Ambrose/Rollins was ***1/2 for me. I still think the face/heel dynamic of the match up will be better when the roles are reversed.
Zayn/Cena *** - sloppy, but damn a crowd can really make a difference.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

That John Cena promo on Raw had me :lmao

Climbing down that prickly and hostile crevasse without falter in the face of adversity before finding the proverbial light in a Nordiques jersey, I was just laughing all night. 

The crowd wants to just boo the ever loving hell out of him, but that gosh-darn-sum-a-bitch pulled it out in the end. But you saw the hat! There was no rabbit! Or was there?:cena5

Had the giggles throughout - Bret comes out, Slate, a bonk on the head, then BAM~! Did the crowd have any idea that Zayn would appear or was that the most perfect set up and deliverance in recent memory? Ridiculous. Match was very good, but yeah, the shoulder...:zayn3 Made perfect sense considering the awkward moments during. Hope he's ok.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> Absolutely rotten luck. Seems he hurt himself psyching up the crowd. Cena, noticing the injury, delivered the Protobomb to give them an angle to work off of. Hopefully this doesn't play into a certain bias (and belief of injury prone "Indy darlings") of a certain someone...


Being the BITW, you even have to injure yourself just giving the fans what they want. :mj2


----------



## Biblet2014 (Jul 11, 2014)

*Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues &amp; Bobby Eaton*

Alrighty got the network and watched Syxx/Malenko from Superbrawl.

Dean Malenko VS Syxx

Malenko looked really good in this and from what I could gather of it the story sounded good but Syxx man... He somehow "Injures" his leg from a drop kick to his knee in tree of woe position sells it pretty good then just begins to walk fine and do a flurry of leg moves and the announcers somehow didn't realize, I know it's scripted but when the 11 year old thinks something the announcers probably don't you know something has gone wrong.

Also it seemed like he was selling late as in he'd get say a body slam, he would be on the mat for a second and then would sell it a couple seconds later.

All in all the match was ok, the finish was sort of weird and quick with all 4 (Eddie, Syxx, Dean, and the ref) playing tug of war with the belt before he just sort of lets go and the belt hits Malenko and he sort of freaks out while Syxx gets the pin, why don't you just go in and hit Syxx to where Malenko still retains instead of just going "WHAA I DIDNT MEAN IT ESE NOOOO"

Rating: *** Would be higher if Syxx was a little better, they actually told us a bit more of the story, and the ending was a bit better.

By the way any fun PPVS from either the RA era Smackdown or 2007/8/9 Raw PPVS? Looking for something fun to watch.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Has anyone seen: 4/19/86 Sheepherders vs. Fantastics (Bobby Fulton/Tommy Rogers)

Meltzer (yeah, i know) gave it 5 stars, think it was a Crockett Cup match. I have extended
clips of the match, but was it ever in full?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Cena/Zayn and Ambrose/Rollins was heaps fun.

Dean FUCKING Ambrose. :mark:


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Brock said:


> Has anyone seen: 4/19/86 Sheepherders vs. Fantastics (Bobby Fulton/Tommy Rogers)
> 
> Meltzer (yeah, i know) gave it 5 stars, think it was a Crockett Cup match. I have extended
> clips of the match, but was it ever in full?




That's the full show, so doesn't look like it. Video I have is only 8 minutes. Got a couple of their matches on comp, wonder if those are clipped, too. Will look later tonight.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rah said:


> That's the full show, so doesn't look like it. Video I have is only 8 minutes. Got a couple of their matches on comp, wonder if those are clipped, too. Will look later tonight.


Ah, thanks mate. Not the first clipped match Dave has given high rating for (unless he saw the match live of course). I do have a Sheepherders comp, and it's only 8 minutes on there.

Wonder if the full show will turn up on the Network one day or something.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah Meltzer was there live for the show, so he saw the full thing. He's not like a certain other person who throws tons of stars at clipped matches, half the time not even realising half the match is missing... :lmao.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

*Re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues &amp; Bobby Eaton*



Biblet2014 said:


> By the way any fun PPVS from either the RA era Smackdown or 2007/8/9 Raw PPVS? Looking for something fun to watch.


I'm watching _Backlash '07_ at the moment, which is technically a three-brand show, but it's from the era you're talking about and it's lots of fun so far. It's just six matches long, so it's a quick watch (despite not being that much shorter than other ppvs); the first three matches are all really good, the last two (which I haven't gotten to yet) are pretty highly acclaimed, and the other one is part of the McMahon/Lashley feud, so it'll either be an entertaining train wreck or highly skippable, depending on your tolerance for that sort of thing. Sounds like the kind of show you're looking for.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ah, explains the high rating i guess then.  As we have full footage of the '87 Crockett Cup, be nice to have '86 one day too, It's only been 30 years...


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues &amp; Bobby Eaton*



Bruce L said:


> I'm watching _Backlash '07_ at the moment, which is technically a three-brand show, but it's from the era you're talking about and it's lots of fun so far. It's just six matches long, so it's a quick watch (despite not being that much shorter than other ppvs); the first three matches are all really good, the last two (which I haven't gotten to yet) are pretty highly acclaimed, and the other one is part of the McMahon/Lashley feud, so it'll either be an entertaining train wreck or highly skippable, depending on your tolerance for that sort of thing. Sounds like the kind of show you're looking for.


Yeah, that show was awesome. Unforgiven 2006, Armageddon 2006, Elimination Chamber 2008 and Summerslam 2008 are pretty neat.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> Ah, thanks mate. Not the first clipped match Dave has given high rating for (unless he saw the match live of course). I do have a Sheepherders comp, and it's only 8 minutes on there.
> 
> Wonder if the full show will turn up on the Network one day or something.


If you can find a full video of that match, I will hop on a plane and fly all the way to England to give you a big old kiss, right on the lips. I searched high and low for about 3 days before ultimately giving up, I need to see it as part of my Meltzer 5 star match project (only 6 more to go!) and goddamn it's become something of my holy Grail. Actually that's not true, my real holy grail is finding footage of the Guerrero/Steve Austin house show match Eddie talks about in his book, he said it was one of his best matches and the big reason Vince decided to give him his first push with Los Guerreros. If I ever find it so help me god you will never see or hear from me again, you'll just have to watch the news for reports of a strapping young man from Leesburg, VA running naked through the streets screaming "ONE MATCH TO RULE THEM ALL!"


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> If you can find a full video of that match, I will hop on a plane and fly all the way to England to give you a big old kiss, right on the lips. I searched high and low for about 3 days before ultimately giving up, I need to see it as part of my Meltzer 5 star match project (only 6 more to go!) and goddamn it's become something of my holy Grail. Actually that's not true, my real holy grail is finding footage of the Guerrero/Steve Austin house show match Eddie talks about in his book, he said it was one of his best matches and the big reason Vince decided to give him his first push with Los Guerreros. If I ever find it so help me god you will never see or hear from me again, you'll just have to watch the news for reports of a strapping young man from Leesburg, VA running naked through the streets screaming "ONE MATCH TO RULE THEM ALL!"




As far as i know now, the full Crockett Cup '86 still isn't available unfortunately.  If i ever hear of it though, ill shout it from the damn rooftops.

But hey, the full Kobashi/Kikuchi vs. Kroffat/Furnas finally was unearthed just a couple of years ago, and that was a big holy grail, so there is still hope. We have raw full footage of Crockett Cup from 1987, so it's surprising there still is no full televised or otherwise coverage of the previous years.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I watched Sting vs Cactus Jack from Beach Blast 1992 this morning.

Fucking incredible match, loved it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

KENNY said:


> I watched Sting vs Cactus Jack from Beach Blast 1992 this morning.
> 
> Fucking incredible match, loved it.


In Mick Foley's book "Have a nice Day!" he said that when he walked through the curtain after having that match, Bill Watts, the head booker and a notoriously damn near impossible guy to impress, was there to greet Sting and Mick and exclaimed loudly "Show might as well be over boys! It just doesn't get any better than that!" I would tend to agree with Watt's assessment, except just a few minutes later Rude and Steamboat would indeed prove it does get better than that :lmao. Outside of the Vader strap match it's Sting's best match, I don't know if it would crack my personal top 5 for Foley (hmmm. MindGames, Royal Rumble 00', Backlash 04', Over the Edge 1998, Revenge of the Taker is my current top 5 for him I guess) but geeze what an amazing match. Never seen that gimmick worked better. I wish the finish was a tad better but otherwise you won't hear any gripes from me. 

I just watched the WWE 24/7 thingy on Reigns that they put on the network. It's your typical WWE propaganda presenting Reigns as the second coming of Jesus christ and Ghandi, all wrapped into one handsome package, but still it was worth the watch. The footage they show from the Lesnar match was really sweet, reminded me of how much of a champ Roman is for taking that ass kicking. I don't know many people that would have the balls to let Lesnar just beat the shit out of them for 12 minutes. One guy who absolutely would have would be Michael Francis Foley, tis a shame we never got to see a Lesnar/Foley match, that surely would have rivaled that Saturday Night Vader match from 1993 for obscene brutality and physicality.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

If that Fantastics/Sheepherders shows up in full you'll know about it. It's legendary for being a not-full son of a bitch. I think there's a chance it shows up one day. I mean who expected that Chicago goldmine to pop up randomly on youtube? Who expected that other guy to post a bunch of lucha matches nobody knew even existed? Wrestling is the best.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> I mean who expected that Chicago goldmine to pop up randomly on youtube?


Are those the matches Billy Corgan purchased?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Never heard about that, so not sure. The channel I mean is actually the Chicago Film Archives, so I think they actually have rights to this stuff and generously just uploaded it for nothing.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWXxP_rvXryBPpjIw7Dl9Tg/videos


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

You know what's good that doesn't get a lot of love Eddie/Cena SD 08/28/2003, Really good. Cena being the young aggressive dick and Eddie being on because this took place in El Paso.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Never heard about that, so not sure. The channel I mean is actually the Chicago Film Archives, so I think they actually have rights to this stuff and generously just uploaded it for nothing.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWXxP_rvXryBPpjIw7Dl9Tg/videos


Corgan just bought a bunch of old school pro wrestling stuff from some guy in Chicago. Not sure if there is any connection here or not. Corgan did mention Angelo Poffo and Verne Gagne in the tweet about it. Who knows. 

Right on. I will have to check these out.


----------



## Biblet2014 (Jul 11, 2014)

Raw episode 187 from 1996

Flash Funk VS The Goon: Just a quick note before the rating, they showed a little thing on the side for the tag match tonight which featured Jake Roberts.

"You think he's sobered up?" Lawler says.

Rating: **1/2 Crowd sounded really dead during this but Goon actually looked pretty good, Funk did some good aside from a botched moonsault (it looked like he just hit Goon in the head and landed on the concrete)

And no selling a bicycle kick was sort of odd, announcers were ok aside from the occasional "Oh stop it" from Vince and his always famous "Shake your booty", this is 1996 were talking about.

We just started playing the old 93 music oh lord help us, funny little conmercial hyping the rumble with two guys waiting 7 weeks in their seats so they don't miss it.

This is so weird why was Tiny Tim on Raw.

Wait why is Jim Ross now at the announcing table?

Diesel VS Phineas Godwin

Rating: **

Phineas can't wrestle says King as Diesel mess up a power bomb >.> I really don't see the point of this match, it was alright throughout aside from a couple points (See weird power bomb)

Razor coming out seemed pointless because he just sat there and didn't do anything, the way the powerbomb was weird was it wasn't really a legs on shoulders Jackknife it was more of a on shoulder toss, it almost seemed like he was going to drop him on his head (RAW IS HEAD)

Shawn Micheals apologizing for being offensive, didn't pay attention much was trying to write the Diesel review.

"Double J" Jesse James VS Justin Hawk Bradshaw:

They Have the weirdest points to take and come back from a break I swear.

OMFG SEGA SATURN AND BEAVIS AND BUTTHEAD.

Crap I should have watched next week, Mankind/Taker no holds barred.

Rating: ***

I actually really enjoyed this one, once again most of this show the crowd has just been sitting on their hands, the wrestling in this was actually pretty good and there weren't from what I could tell any mess ups, so far unless the tag match beats it or something else this is MOTN for me.

Also Bradshaw's clothesline was just brutal.

Hooray Karate Fighters tournament King VS Guy!!! Yaaaaayyyy.

Dang Austin interferes and a nice chair shot before he was going to PILLMANIZE HIM! OH NO!

Nice that they show house show footage though, also nice they implemented that show into the storyline, this went on a bit too long though.

"You might have the WWF Title but you're not the man" Says Bret Hart.

Nice little story behind the tag match I must say, won't give away anything though.

Billy Gunn And Hunter Hearst Helmsley (Breakin it down) VS Marc Mero and Jake Roberts.

I seriously love how they can't wait for after the match to do a interview, Road Dogg challenges Bradshaw and Whoever is Bradshaw's manager (Copyright do not steal) in a handicap match next week.

Odd WWF Full Metal commercial

Rating: ***

This and Bradshaw/Road Dogg have to be MOTN, not really from what I saw were there many good ups or anything of the sort.

Mero looked great in body terms and ring wise while Roberts just dosent care anymore, HHH and Gunn worked pretty well as a team, Gunn just sort of walked out of the match after a argument, no rhyme or reason just walking out.

Overall Show Rating: ***
MOTN: Bradshaw VS Jesse James, and Jake Roberts And Mark Mero VS HHH And Billy Gunn
BOTN: Flash Funk, Marc Mero, Goon, HHH, Bradshaw, Double J
WOTN: Roberts, Diesel, Phineas.

Final closing thoughts: I was really worried about this show in the beginning because of the first two matches but it definitely got better as it went on, the crowd reaaaalllyyy suck in this show which is one of the things that brought this show down.

Also a lack of their bigger guys brought this down a tiny bit but not much as it was nice seeing the lower guys in action, I will be watching next week definantley and will try to go through IYH: It's Time along with the rest of December 1996 in Raws and if I really like it will do all Raws of 1996.

Anyway in the end the good outnumbered the bad and I reccomend this Raw.



Going to wait till tommorow to watch episode 188 and do a little of Its Time if I have enough time.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Never heard about that, so not sure. The channel I mean is actually the Chicago Film Archives, so I think they actually have rights to this stuff and generously just uploaded it for nothing.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWXxP_rvXryBPpjIw7Dl9Tg/videos


Chicago wrestling w/Russ Davis on commentary:mark:


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

*BACKLASH 2007*

*World Tag Team Championship match*
*The Hardy Boyz (c) vs. Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch*
***¾ – Great friggin' tag match right here. At one point, I jokingly thought to myself, "Is this the Hardys' best non-ladder match or what?" In retrospect, that's probably a question that deserved to be asked in seriousness.

*WWE Women's Championship match*
*Melina (c) vs. Mickie James*
*** – This is probably about as good as women's wrestling got in the post-Trish-and-Lita, pre-A.J.-and-NXT world, and that's not a backhanded compliment.

*United States Championship match*
*Chris Benoit (c) vs. Montel Vontavius Porter*
***½ – Not gonna lie: As much as I still love Benoit's work, it's kind of disconcerting hearing him get a hometown hero's welcome in Atlanta just a few months before the end. The match, however, is _really_ good, an excellent technical affair that cemented MVP as a guy who could hang with the Benoits of the world, and the real deal as a crafty veteran he couldn't quite overcome yet. 

*ECW Championship handicap match*
*Bobby Lashley (c) vs. Umaga, Vince McMahon, & Shane McMahon*
DUD – Just kidding. I didn't even watch it, and I feel 100% okay with that decision.

*Last Man Standing match for the World Heavyweight Championship*
*The Undertaker (c) vs. Batista*
**** – Awesome stuff here. Same snowflakes as the WrestleMania match, though I probably rank this one a little bit behind it; as appropriate as the non-finish feels, I still feel the need to take marks off for it. Still love the match, though, especially the way it puts both guys over as absolute beasts by having them not resort, until the end, to anything more "extreme" than they did at Mania. They take a match usually defined by chaos and plunder, and work it with nothing but their trademark power offense delivered with extra viciousness. It's marvelous.

*Fatal Four-Way match for the WWE Championship*
*John Cena (c) vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Edge vs. Randy Orton*
****¼ – Y'know, I talk a lot about how much I dislike non-elimination multi-man matches like this in theory, but in practice, I almost always think that when WWE makes a real creative investment in one, it pays off, and this is probably the best one I've ever seen. Everybody works hard to put over how much they want the title (with Michaels the MVP in that category), and there are some great spots and a creative finish. I don't ask for much more than that when I go into a match I'm predisposed to not like, and this one greatly surpassed the expectations that I'm starting to think I should reevaluate.

I bought this DVD on Amazon because it was only 99 cents, and I was tired of trying and failing to find a decent-quality cap of Taker/Batista online. I think it's safe to say I got many times my money's worth. Great, great show.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

That double main event was absolutely insane.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well, I agree with ONE match rating there, and that's the women's match :lmao.

You watched Benoit Vs MVPleaseGiveMeSomeTalent but skipped the rather fun (and superior) McMahons/Umaga Vs Bathturd Lashley? FOR SHAME.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> Well, I agree with ONE match rating there, and that's the women's match :lmao.
> 
> You watched Benoit Vs MVPleaseGiveMeSomeTalent but skipped the rather fun (and superior) McMahons/Umaga Vs Bathturd Lashley? FOR SHAME.


That Orton/HBK/Cena/Edge match was really good, but better than Taker/Batista? Nahhhhh. Not for me at least. There is never a time when I'm not game for a Taker/Batista match, they never had anything but GREAT matches, I never knew Batista was capable of working matches that good, even with one of the best in the Deadman. Taker had a long feud with a main event star in 2004 (JBL), 2005 (Orton), 2006 (Angle), 2007 (Batista), 2008 (Edge), and 2009 (Punk) for a staggering 6 straight years. Literally dozens of classic matches, and yet some how you look at that list of talent he worked with and realize "Holy shit, the best feud was his work with Batista!" That's pretty amazing, good for Big Dave.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

As much as i love the WM match, and indeed the entire series. Cyber Sunday is probably still my favorite match of Taker/Tista.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That Orton/HBK/Cena/Edge match was really good, but better than Taker/Batista? Nahhhhh. Not for me at least. There is never a time when I'm not game for a Taker/Batista match, *they never had anything but GREAT matches*, I never knew Batista was capable of working matches that good, even with one of the best in the Deadman. Taker had a long feud with a main event star in 2004 (JBL), 2005 (Orton), 2006 (Angle), 2007 (Batista), 2008 (Edge), and 2009 (Punk) for a staggering 6 straight years. Literally dozens of classic matches, and yet some how you look at that list of talent he worked with and realize "Holy shit, the best feud was his work with Batista!" That's pretty amazing, good for Big Dave.


Wrong, my good Chris. The Chairs match was not just a bad dream, it was reality.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Wrong, my good Chris. The Chairs match was not just a bad dream, it was reality.


You fucker I knew someone was going to bring that abomination up. It does NOT exist, okay? Got it? We clear? Taker would never wrestle something as stupid and ridiculous as a chairs match. Kapish?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Not even Cal can find positives in that one. (well, apart from the fact Taker is at least in the match).


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

My favorite match of the series is the first at WM, almost ***** for me, the feeling of that match was great, the crowd was absolutely sold onto it, Taker acting, Batista and his double facepalm after the Batista Bomb...It was so awesome.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That Orton/HBK/Cena/Edge match was really good, but better than Taker/Batista? Nahhhhh. Not for me at least. There is never a time when I'm not game for a Taker/Batista match, they never had anything but GREAT matches, I never knew Batista was capable of working matches that good, even with one of the best in the Deadman. Taker had a long feud with a main event star in 2004 (JBL), 2005 (Orton), 2006 (Angle), 2007 (Batista), 2008 (Edge), and 2009 (Punk) for a staggering 6 straight years. Literally dozens of classic matches, and yet some how you look at that list of talent he worked with and realize "Holy shit, the best feud was his work with Batista!" That's pretty amazing, good for Big Dave.


Did you mean to quote ME here lol? Cos it seems like you think I was somehow saying the 4 way was better than Taker/Batista .

Chairs match? Between Undertaker and Batista? Never heard of it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> Did you mean to quote ME here lol? Cos it seems like you think I was somehow saying the 4 way was better than Taker/Batista .
> 
> Chairs match? Between Undertaker and Batista? Never heard of it.


Yea I meant to quote you, I was agreeing with you that him rating Taker/Batista BELOW the 4-way was not how I saw things . Probably should have been more clear haha. Taker and Batista have one of my all time favorite randomly amazing chemistry's in the ring. Like, you see Taker and Foley and before they even hooked up for the first time at KotR 96' you knew they would have excellent chemistry. Same with Eddie and Rey or Bret/Perfect, Bret/Austin. It doesn't take much imagination to see those pairings tear the house down.

Taker and Batista on the other hand? For me that took quite a bit of imagination. I didn't think their matches would suck, it is Taker after all, but having ****1/2+ classics on multiple PPV's? No way, didn't see that one happening. I missed that feud live, wasn't watching at the time. Then I remember seeing that "Top 50 WWE Superstars" doc and seeing Matt Stryker call the Batista/Taker WM 23 match "one of the greatest matches I've ever seen". Surely, he must have been exaggerating I thought. Then that Taker "Streak" set came out, bought it the first day it was released. After watching the two Taker/HBK matches for the first time since I saw them live, I popped in the other disc and watched that WM 23 match, and for 16 or so solid minutes my jaw was on the floor in astonishment. Never in my wildest dreams did I think Batista had that level of performance in him, yea he had that HiaC match with Hunter but that was a gimmick match where they used lots of props and just beat the holy shit out of each other. This was a straight up pro wrestling match, no gimmicks, no props, just two monsters throwing bombs and delivering a timeless piece of art. 

So yea, big, BIG, fan of that whole feud. Cyber Sunday was 98% as good as the WM match, Backlash was in that ****1/4 territory, and their SVS HiaC match was 90% as good as WM. Then they have that excellent cage match as well. That's 4 classic PPV encounters and 1 fantastic TV match. Only Foley managed to top that with the Deadman, and he damn near had to kill himself in the process.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

#ROOT said:


> ]You watched Benoit Vs MVPleaseGiveMeSomeTalent but skipped the rather fun (and superior) McMahons/Umaga Vs Bathturd Lashley? FOR SHAME.


The former has Benoit. The latter has Lashley and Vince. UNREPENTANT WORKRATE SNOBBERY FOREVER, DAMMIT.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> You fucker I knew someone was going to bring that abomination up. It does NOT exist, okay? Got it? We clear? Taker would never wrestle something as stupid and ridiculous as a chairs match. Kapish?


No, just NO! You have to fight that basic instinct that it doesn't exist. We all have to face our worst nightmares and accept it sucked ass, because THAT IS HOW WE CAN ACTUALLY GROW AS FUCKING FANS OF THIS STUFF *AND* AS HUMANS TOO... even if it hurts a lot . I forced myself that way, just like I forced myself to believe that a world in which Austin and Taker matches being suckfests was also reality. And it's a huge punch in the testicles (or ovaries if you're a girl), but what the fuck, only punches in the testicles/ovaries will wake us up to the cruel world.

I hope this speech gets to all of you. I really hope. Like it got me. And my girlfriend too when she couldn't accept that reality at first.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> No, just NO! You have to fight that basic instinct that it doesn't exist. We all have to face our worst nightmares and accept it sucked ass, because THAT IS HOW WE CAN ACTUALLY GROW AS FUCKING FANS OF THIS STUFF *AND* AS HUMANS TOO... even if it hurts a lot . I forced myself that way, just like I forced myself to believe that a world in which Austin and Taker matches being suckfests was also reality. And it's a huge punch in the testicles (or ovaries if you're a girl), but what the fuck, only punches in the testicles/ovaries will wake us up to the cruel world.
> 
> I hope this speech gets to all of you. I really hope. Like it got me. And my girlfriend too when she couldn't accept that reality at first.


Taker/Batista TLC, Eddie/Angle SS, Henry/Sheamus ER, and Taker/Kane HIAC do not exist, you hear me? Those matches never took place and I don't want to hear another word about it.

Was Ambrose/Rollins on Raw this week really worth watching? I'm going to watch the Zayn debut because duh you have to watch Zayn debuting but I don't want to get my hopes up and see them crushed by working another overbooked nonsense match. I dug the No DQ match they had on Raw in August but didn't like the Lumberjack or HiaC matches AT ALL. Not either guys fault either, overbooking to the max.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Oh yeah, Ambrose/Rollins was real good. Crowd goes fucking nuts towards the end. Much better than Cena/Zayn, which was fucked from the start (unfortunately).


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

ATF said:


> No, just NO! You have to fight that basic instinct that it doesn't exist. We all have to face our worst nightmares and accept it sucked ass, because THAT IS HOW WE CAN ACTUALLY GROW AS FUCKING FANS OF THIS STUFF *AND* AS HUMANS TOO... even if it hurts a lot . I forced myself that way, just like I forced myself to believe that a world in which Austin and Taker matches being suckfests was also reality. And it's a huge punch in the testicles (or ovaries if you're a girl), but what the fuck, only punches in the testicles/ovaries will wake us up to the cruel world.
> 
> I hope this speech gets to all of you. I really hope. Like it got me. And my girlfriend too when she couldn't accept that reality at first.


I think there's a reason that explains why Batista/Taker Chairs Match was a let-down, it was not random. First off, you kind of expect a classic after watching all of their matches before, then the fucking stipulation is stupid and has never produced anything watchable and last and most important, Batista had just turned heel here IIRC, so they didn't deliver that "two monsters throwing bombs to each other" match that they did before, instead Batista was somewhat afraid of the Undertaker and acted cowardly.

Just my thoughts.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Even with the pre-match injury, I still think Cena/Zayn was solid. It lacked a bit of coordination but I think they did really well to improvise when it was clear Sami was hurt.

I just rewatched it because the whole build to Zayn making his entrance is beautiful. One of those legit goosebump moments where you know something special is going down. 

That crowd reaction, though. Pure elation. Has Cena ever received a pop like that before? Crazy that an NXT guy can get a bigger pop on his debut than anything Cena has ever had :done


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So Daniel Bryan was announced as one of the judges for Tough Enough next month. Sounds cool and everything for the show, but that means there's no way he's healthy and gonna wrestle anytime soon then right? Ugh, really sucks. May as well just strip him of the IC Title and get it over with. Have Sheamus, Ziggler, Barrett, & Neville fight over it.

On top of Bryan being hurt, it looks like Hideo Itami is gonna be out 6-8 months with a shoulder injury and likely pulled from the NXT special in a couple weeks. Fuckin Zayn looks like he's hurt too. Jesus, talk about terrible luck for those indy darlings...


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Was Ambrose/Rollins on Raw this week really worth watching? I'm going to watch the Zayn debut because duh you have to watch Zayn debuting but I don't want to get my hopes up and see them crushed by working another overbooked nonsense match. I dug the No DQ match they had on Raw in August but didn't like the Lumberjack or HiaC matches AT ALL. Not either guys fault either, overbooking to the max.


Definitely worth checking out - I've stopped watching the weekly shows, b/c too much good wrestling and other stuff to plod through 3hrs of a bad show, but the Montreal crowd was extra-hype, and the little bit of overbooking actually helped the match IMO (won't spoil it for you). That and the Zayn segment are worth watching - here's the video for the Zayn one which includes the Cena promo and Bret parts:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6_vAmKwZB0c

Cena promo is timeless Cena shenanigans, which always walks this line between hard to watch/hard to look away. I had a damn good time with it anyway. 

Unrelated: Do you know the date or year for that htf Stone Cold/Eddie match?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Batista/Undertaker cage match was awful too. Part of that was because Taker was hurt, but that match had nothing going for it. No story, no bombs, no drama, nothing.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I have been out of the loop when it comes to NXT (or WWE in general) over the past couple of months in terms of matches. Anyone have any good recommendations from Raw, Smackdown, and NXT from March to now? Last episode I watched was when Kevin Owens beat the shit out of Alex Riley at the commentator's table lol and I've seen the Zayn/Cena match from this past Monday.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> I have been out of the loop when it comes to NXT (or WWE in general) over the past couple of months in terms of matches. Anyone have any good recommendations from Raw, Smackdown, and NXT from March to now? Last episode I watched was when Kevin Owens beat the shit out of Alex Riley at the commentator's table lol and I've seen the Zayn/Cena match from this past Monday.


IC Title Contender's Gauntlet: Bryan vs. Harper & Bryan vs. Ziggler (SD 3/19) *** 3/4
John Cena, Roman Reigns, Mark Henry, & Daniel Bryan vs. Seth Rollins, Big Show, Kane, & Bray Wyatt (SD 3/26) *** 1/4
Intercontinental Championship: Daniel Bryan vs. Dolph Ziggler (RAW 3/30) - *** 1/2
Cesaro, Tyson Kidd, & The Ascension vs. New Day & Lucha Dragons (RAW 3/30) - *** 1/4
United States Championship: John Cena vs. Dean Ambrose (RAW 3/30) - *** 1/2
Naomi, AJ, & Paige vs. Natalya & The Bella Twins (RAW 3/30) - ***
Sheamus, Bad News Barrett, & Big Show vs. Dolph Ziggler, Roman Reigns, & Daniel Bryan (SD 4/9) *** 1/4
Seth Rollins & Luke Harper vs. Dean Ambrose & Roman Reigns (Smackdown 4/23) *** 1/2
King of the Ring 1st Round: Sheamus vs. Dean Ambrose (RAW 4/27) *** 1/4
King of the Ring 1st Round: Neville vs. Luke Harper (RAW 4/27) *** 1/4
Seth Rollins & Kane vs. Randy Orton & Roman Reigns (RAW 4/27) *** 1/4
Seth Rollins vs. Dean Ambrose (RAW 5/4) *** 1/2


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> IC Title Contender's Gauntlet: Bryan vs. Harper & Bryan vs. Ziggler (SD 3/19) *** 3/4
> John Cena, Roman Reigns, Mark Henry, & Daniel Bryan vs. Seth Rollins, Big Show, Kane, & Bray Wyatt (SD 3/26) *** 1/4
> Intercontinental Championship: Daniel Bryan vs. Dolph Ziggler (RAW 3/30) - *** 1/2
> Cesaro, Tyson Kidd, & The Ascension vs. New Day & Lucha Dragons (RAW 3/30) - *** 1/4
> ...


A good Diva's match? What kind of sorcery is this?

Joking aside, much appreciated.  I've also heard good things about Owens/Balor so I should check that out as well.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> I have been out of the loop when it comes to NXT (or WWE in general) over the past couple of months in terms of matches. Anyone have any good recommendations from Raw, Smackdown, and NXT from March to now? Last episode I watched was when Kevin Owens beat the shit out of Alex Riley at the commentator's table lol and I've seen the Zayn/Cena match from this past Monday.


Bryan/Ziggler Raw 3/30- ****
Bryan/Ziggler SD 3/19- ****
Bryan/Harper SD 3/19- ***1/2 (part of the gauntlet match with the Ziggler one above)
Ambrose/Rollins 5/4- ****
Barrett/Neville KOTR Finals- ***3/4 (Not technically a Raw or SD... or TV match even, but still an excellent match)
Barrett/Cena Raw 4/13- ***3/4
Ambrose/Cena Raw 3/30- ***1/2


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

JustJoel said:


> Definitely worth checking out - I've stopped watching the weekly shows, b/c too much good wrestling and other stuff to plod through 3hrs of a bad show, but the Montreal crowd was extra-hype, and the little bit of overbooking actually helped the match IMO (won't spoil it for you). That and the Zayn segment are worth watching - here's the video for the Zayn one which includes the Cena promo and Bret parts:
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6_vAmKwZB0c
> 
> ...



Unfortunately I do not know the exact date for the Eddie/Austin house show match, but from how Eddie talks about it in his book, it was literally a week or two at the most, possibly even just days, before Austin walked out in 2002. I also have heard Austin say he had been working with Flair in a loop of cage matches around that time, so I'm not really sure.

Here is what I do know, they filmed a vignette to start the feud off with Eddie and Austin in a bar. Vince actually made Eddie hold a real, honest to goodness, ice cold beer in his hand. He did it as a sort of Machiavellian test of Eddie's new found sobriety, he wanted to make sure he could handle holding an ice cold Rolling Rock in his hand without going off the rails before he would go ahead with the Austin feud. I also know that Eddie ended up working a really dissapointing match with Flair at KotR, that match was supposed to be the first in a series of 2-3 matches between Austin and Eddie. Since Flair and Eddie were left without opponents when Austin walked out, they ended up getting put together and Eddie says the match was no good because he was tryong wayyyy to hard to impress Flair because of how much he idolized him. That might be true, but Flair was also a bit of a mess in the ring at this point, he hadn't become "Naitch" again yet, that wouldn't come until 2003 or so.

So yea, wish I could be of more help, and I REALLY wish we could get more info on this feud that never happened. You know what, screw it, I'm gonna email Steve and also hit him up on Twitter and see if he can give me the 411. He's responded to a question from me before so it's worth a shot. Steve asked to have the feud with Eddie, so he obviously liked the guy, maybe he will be up for shedding some light on it. I'll post his response if he ends up replying.

We all know Steve wasn't "Steve fucking Austin" in 2002 before he left, but I have to believe working with Eddie would have lit a fire in him and let him turn in some memorable performances. Although he would have been face and Eddie would have been heel, I would much prefer the roles to have been reversed, as heel Steve Austin >>>> any other Steve Austin.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Anyone catch the ESPN special on WWE/NXT? I don't know if I can ever boo Adam Rose again.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

admiremyclone said:


> That crowd reaction, though. Pure elation. *Has Cena ever received a pop like that before?* Crazy that an NXT guy can get a bigger pop on his debut than anything Cena has ever had :done


...really?


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Unfortunately I do not know the exact date for the Eddie/Austin house show match, but from how Eddie talks about it in his book, it was literally a week or two at the most, possibly even just days, before Austin walked out in 2002. I also have heard Austin say he had been working with Flair in a loop of cage matches around that time, so I'm not really sure.
> 
> Here is what I do know, they filmed a vignette to start the feud off with Eddie and Austin in a bar. Vince actually made Eddie hold a real, honest to goodness, ice cold beer in his hand. He did it as a sort of Machiavellian test of Eddie's new found sobriety, he wanted to make sure he could handle holding an ice cold Rolling Rock in his hand without going off the rails before he would go ahead with the Austin feud. I also know that Eddie ended up working a really dissapointing match with Flair at KotR, that match was supposed to be the first in a series of 2-3 matches between Austin and Eddie. Since Flair and Eddie were left without opponents when Austin walked out, they ended up getting put together and Eddie says the match was no good because he was tryong wayyyy to hard to impress Flair because of how much he idolized him. That might be true, but Flair was also a bit of a mess in the ring at this point, he hadn't become "Naitch" again yet, that wouldn't come until 2003 or so.
> 
> ...



May be of little help, but looking over here, it looks like Eddie and Austin had four matches together at the time:

June 7, 2002 - Lexington, KY - Rupp Arena - Steve Austin defeated Eddie Guerrero

June 2, 2002 - New Orleans, LA - Steve Austin pinned Eddie Guerrero after hitting a Stunner on both Guerrero and an interfering Ric Flair

May 26, 2002 - Red Deer, Alberta - Steve Austin defeated WWE IC Champion Eddie Guerrero in a non-title match

May 25, 2002 - @ Winnipeg, Manitoba - Steve Austin pinned WWE IC Champion Eddie Guerrero in a non-title match with the Stunner after fighting off an interfering Ric Flair

I tried a quick search, but haven't found anything yet. Those four are sandwiched between Austin/Flair cage matches May 18th and June 8th.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I couldn't find anything, either. There would definitely be tape of it, locked away in the WWE vault, but I doubt it will ever see the light of day.







Came across this while searching. Was k.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> ...really?


Well, I may have been exaggerating slightly, but I can only recall two legit pops that were bigger....when Cena gets drafted to RAW in 2005 and his surprise entry into the '08 Royal Rumble.

Other than that, his pop has largely been the same for years and years....high pitched squeals mixed with deeper boos. He gets a big, sustained response but rarely does he get a legit huge pop.


----------



## Biblet2014 (Jul 11, 2014)

http://youtu.be/Lm54ruBcGHg

I guess while were on the subject of house shows I found this one RVD VS Lance Storm in February 2002, was pretty good and had a good crowd.

One girl kept chanting "ARR VEE DEE ARR VEE DEE" It reminded me of the Super Dragon chants lol


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

JustJoel said:


> May be of little help, but looking over here, it looks like Eddie and Austin had four matches together at the time:
> 
> June 7, 2002 - Lexington, KY - Rupp Arena - Steve Austin defeated Eddie Guerrero
> 
> ...



I just pulled out Eddie's book again and I want to say it's probably that June 7 match. He says in the book that the first few matches they had were okay but not up to what they had expected, but the last one they had was were it clicked and they blew the roof off. Oh well, if I ever totally lose my mind I'll go break into the Stamford video vault, Mission Impossible style, and steal all the lost tapes of classic matches like the Fantastics/Sheepherders and Eddie/Austin. I'll get that Regal/Edge match from Japan that Regal says in his book was his best match ever.

Edit:

Today's subject of binge watching is none other than the Beast Incarnate, Brock Lesnar. I woke up with a mind to watch some graps, and the Brock set I have caught my eye. I decided to watch the 10 best Brock matches and re-rate them, see how they held up, and rank them accordingly. Here is how I ranked/rated them.

1. Brock vs CM Punk Summerslam 2013 *****
2. Brock vs Eddie Guerrero No Way Out 2004 ****3/4
3. Brock vs John Cena Extreme Rules 2012 ****3/4
4. Brock vs The Undertaker HiaC No Mercy 2002 ****3/4
5. Brock vs Chris Benoit Smackdown 2003 ****3/4
6. Brock vs Kurt Angle Summerslam 2003 ****1/2
7. Brock vs Kurt Angle IronMan Smackdown 2003 ****1/2
8. Brock vs The Rock Summerslam 2002 ****1/4
9. Brock vs Rey Mysterio Smackdown 2003 ****1/4
10. Brock vs Seth Rollins vs John Cena Royal Rumble 2015 ****1/4

Honorable mention: Brock vs Reigns WM 31 (****1/4); Brock vs Cena Summerslam 2014 (****1/4)

First off, holy shit. I started watching at 8:00 this morning, I've been watching Brock for 6 hours straight, AND IM NOT EVEN CLOSE TO BEING TIRED OF HIM. I've seen all of those matches at least once before, and still I managed to stay 100% enthralled for every minute of every match. Brock is the best athlete I've ever personally seen, in any sport. Better than Lebron, better than Calvin Johnson, better than JJ Watt, better than Adrian Peterson. The only athlete I've ever seen on his level is Bo Jackson, which is fitting because Brock is essentially the Bo Jackson of the WWE (physical freak we have never seen before, played two sports, career shortened because of injuries, successful from Day 1, there are just a ton of parallels between Bo and Brock). The way Brock moves, especially watching those 2002-2003 matches just isn't right. He's 300+ lbs, completely jacked beyond all reasonable levels, yet he bounces around and floats around like a cat, is as smooth as Barry Windham or Ricky Steamboat in the ring, never blows up, does arleast 2-3 things in every match that make you say "HOLY SHIT DID YOU SEE THAT?!". He's just the most unique wrestler I've ever seen. We aren't seeing another Brock Lesnar, not ever. Not only that, but Brock NEVER made his opponents look bad. Never. He bumps and sells and flies around for freaking Rey Mysterio and makes it believable, he made CM Punk look like a 100% legit threat, he is an Undertaker level salesmen. 

I'll put Brock's 10 best matches up against just about anyone. He's been that good. I can't wait to watch Brock vs Rollins, here's hoping we get a legit 1 on 1 singles match between them at Summerslam 2015.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Glad to see I'm not the only one that has that Rey/Lesnar match at MOTYC status. Take a step back and think about how difficult of a task it is to make Rey look like a threat against Lesnar. And those two guys manufactured a match that erased any doubts regarding that match-up. In fact, the match was so good that I cheered for Hardcore feaking Holly when he came out of the crowd to save Mysterio.

Smackdown on paper looks weak, but it wasn't a bad show. This Barrett/Sheamus/Neville/Ziggler program is what I want in a midcard feud: good matches, good promos, reason behind everything going on (except for maybe the Kiss My Arse stipulation), a crowd that responds to the feud, and everybody benefiting from working with each other. All that's missing is the IC Title. 

And then the tag team program is going just as well thanks to this double turn. The New Day are perfect in their current role and it's even showcasing itself in their matches. Kofi's forced excitement works so well when we are supposed to hate him, and Xavier Woods has bucketloads of charisma. Go watch the Ryback/Cesaro/Kidd vs. New Day match.

Also intrigued by some other smaller parts of the show such as the Wyatt Family reunion, a possible Rusev/Lana scheme to trick Cena, and the Lucha Dragons. The main event though was loads of fun and it shows why Rollins can make such a good champion when given the chance. The man commanded that contract signing segment and had some nice one-liners. And then the way the brawl occurred actually made sense and didn't insult our intelligence. Best of all, Rollins stood tall because of his own doing. This is the kind of main event that Smackdown needs.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Pretty sure my top two Brock matches would both be from his return, and I still haven't seen the Punk match. And the stretcher match with the Big Show might be near top 5 but I'd have to watch again next to the Rey and Angle matches. I did watch them in 2012 and thought stretcher was better than the iron man, anyway, if not by that much.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Glad to see I'm not the only one that has that Rey/Lesnar match at MOTYC status. Take a step back and think about how difficult of a task it is to make Rey look like a threat against Lesnar. And those two guys manufactured a match that erased any doubts regarding that match-up. In fact, the match was so good that I cheered for Hardcore feaking Holly when he came out of the crowd to save Mysterio.
> 
> Smackdown on paper looks weak, but it wasn't a bad show. This Barrett/Sheamus/Neville/Ziggler program is what I want in a midcard feud: good matches, good promos, reason behind everything going on (except for maybe the Kiss My Arse stipulation), a crowd that responds to the feud, and everybody benefiting from working with each other. All that's missing is the IC Title.
> 
> ...


Thought Smackdown was great.

Once Bryan returns an IC title scene consisting of Bryan/Neville/Ziggler/Barrett/Sheamus could be great. All those guys seem to have chemistry with each other.

New Day are actually awesome, 6 man on Smackdown was great, would go as high as ***1/2 for it.

Really looking forward to the Payback main event.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Pretty sure my top two Brock matches would both be from his return, and I still haven't seen the Punk match. And the stretcher match with the Big Show might be near top 5 but I'd have to watch again next to the Rey and Angle matches. I did watch them in 2012 and thought stretcher was better than the iron man, anyway, if not by that much.


In my own humble opinion, his match against Punk is the best Brock Lesnar match ever.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Hell In A Cell with Taker is Brock's best match for me.

My favourite match of all time.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Lesnar 12-15 >>>>>>> 02-04


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fighter Daron said:


> In my own humble opinion, his match against Punk is the best Brock Lesnar match ever.


I like to believe this is general knowledge. But I love it that much. It's honestly at that point to where I'd call it a top 5 match from WWF/WWE for me. I'm not even thinking about a list, but yeah, this has got to be a lock.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

about to watch these

rock vs angle vs taker - vengeance 2002
brock vs angle - summerslam 2003
night of champions 2008 ECW triple threat 


does anyone have the full match link for mark henry vs orton night of champions?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)




----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Thank you. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hall of Pain Mizark. Lord. What a time.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

For me:

Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker - Wrestlemania 26
CM Punk vs Cena - MITB 2011
Hart vs Austin - Wrestlemania 13
Triple H vs Chris Jericho - Judgement Day 2002
Shawn Michaels vs Triple H - Summerslam 2002
Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania 25
CM Punk vs Brock Lesnar - Summerslam 2013
The Rock vs Steve Austin - Wrestlemania 17
Undertaker vs CM Punk - Wrestlemania 29
Batista vs Undertaker - Wrestlemania 23


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao Was that The Miz's theme playing right before the tip off of the Wizards/Hawks game?


----------



## Biblet2014 (Jul 11, 2014)

Any ECW PPVS on the network you guys would reccomend? Trying to build up my watch list, I also know about Anarchy Rulz 1999 and got it on VHS.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Biblet2014 said:


> Any ECW PPVS on the network you guys would reccomend? Trying to build up my watch list, I also know about Anarchy Rulz 1999 and got it on VHS.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


My viewings on full shows is pretty slim, but here's what I enjoyed when I was younger:

Cyberslam '96 (I think this is in the vault, not in the PPV section)
Barely Legal
Heatwave '98


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Just been reading a thread about Owen Hart, and got me curious to watch some of his matches. 

I'm curious on peoples opinions on these, or if they know of a link to watch them.

- Goldust, Ken Shamrock, The Legion of Doom and Steve Austin v. Brian Pillman, Jim Neidhart, British Bulldog, Owen Hart and Bret Hart.
- European championship finals: The British Bulldog v. Owen Hart
- Bret & Owen Hart v. Rick & Scott Steiner (I remember seeing this when I was really young but that was years ago). 

Also, I've been watching a bit of Vader recently :mark: first time I've really watched quite a bit of his stuff and wanting to watch more. I've watched the Texas death match vs Cactus Jack, the strap match vs Sting, vs Undertaker from RAW 1997 (i think), the tag w/ Steve Austin vs Arn/Flair. 

I'm looking for these matches to watch now:

vs Sting-Great American Bash 1992
vs Stan Hansen (WCW Wrestlewar 1991)
vs Ric Flair (WCW Starrcade 1993)
vs Razor Ramon-In Your House: Good Friends, Better Enemies
vs. Austin vs. Bret Hart vs. Undertaker, In Your House 13: Final Four
vs Kane, No Way Out of Texas: In Your House 1998
vs. Arn Anderson and Ric Flair, Clash of the Champions XXXI

Don't think I'll bother with the Hogan ones. I'd be interested in seeing his other famous ones from Japan etc, but it's weird without english commentary.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Canadian Stampede tag is probably one of the best WWE matches of all time. I've always really, really liked Owen/Bulldog, even when I thought it wasn't the classic that I used to. Harts/Steiners was brought up not long ago ITT. I went down on it last watch, but last watch was five years ago. 

Owen & Yokozuna is one of my favourite teams ever. Really cool squash team and I adore that IYH w/ Luger & Davey Boy.

Vader was better in the US than Japan anyway, but yeah, he has some really, really good matches in a few Japanese companies.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Vader vs Hogan from SuperBrawl V is AWESOME, Kenny. That's much more worth a watch than vs Kane or the Flair/Arn Handicap match on that list. Although I still enjoy the Kane match from a "it's so ugly I like it" point of view. Just thank christ you didn't mention the Over the Edge match. ffs, is that one putrid.

Vader vs Bradshaw from Breakdown is a must. That's just about a top three match from WWF circa 1998. An actual quality match from the year.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I've actually never seen any Vader/Hogan match lol.  Ill dig out my Vader comp and watch that Superbrawl match later. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's the only one worth seeing of the three, unfortunately. At least the first managed to reach a peak level.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Is that Over The Edge match the mask vs mask one? As I remember kinda liking one of thier matches, unsure which one it was, think it was the other IYH one.

Vader hit Kane with everything in it, Vader bomb, Moonsault. I know the story was to make Kane thus unbeatable monitor and all, but all I kept thinking was this _was_ Vader.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, Over the Edge is the Mask vs Mask. I'm certain you're thinking of the NWO '98 match b/c Vader walked into that w/credibility in tact and it was the grudge vs Kane that basically zapped all of his aura away from him _(and onto Kane in a somewhat fair transference, as far as something that matters goes)_ It's not "neat" in areas, like I stated, but it's p. good w/the story and all that. I do enjoy slugfests so it was enough to sell me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*No Way Out 2008*

The #1 Ramble was No Mercy 2008. The #101 Ramble is the beginning of the rest of 2008! I'm shocked I've made it this far haha.

Fake It by Seether is the PPV theme, and probably the only Seether song I've ever liked.


*CM Punk Vs Chavo Guerrero - ECW Championship Match*

Urgh, not a good way to start off the show. Chavo. Fuck off.

Ain't even gonna attempt to watch this.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


MIKE ADAMLE INTERVIEW~! I hope he botches something :mark:.

HOW DID IT HAPPER? He botched!!! :mark:

Floyd Mayweather shows up. :mark: I forgot this was the PPV with THAT angle :mark:.


*The Undertaker Vs Batista Vs Finlay Vs Big Daddy V Vs The Great Khali Vs MVP - World Heavyweight Championship #1 Contenders Elimination Chamber Match*

:mark: a match involving Undertaker, FINLAY and Batista :mark:. Shame Khali and MVP bring it down. I like DBV though .

:mark: Undertaker and Batista kick this match off, as they add another chapter to their year long rivalry :mark:.

2 big bastards beating the fuck out of each other. RASSLIN' don't get much better than thiUs!

:mark: Undertaker is destroying Big Dave. Punching his face in, kicking his knees to shit, and occasionally standing on his throat. GOAT.

It's time for another superstar to enter the match and it's THE GREAT KHA... no wait it's Big Daddy V. Someone apparently can't operate a fecking LIGHT properly :lmao. YOU HAD ONE JOB!!!

Big Daddy V is yet another big bastard looking to beat the fuck out of the two big bastards already in the ring :mark:. Why couldn't this just be a 4 way? Take out Khali and MVP and this would be fucking epic.

I used to have legitimate NIGHTMARES about Big Daddy V, back when he was Viscera. I would be running away from him at the warehouse I worked in at the time, and he was chasing me down and would eventually corner me to suffocate me to death with his FAT lol. I think it's because I'm a little claustrophobic lol.

UNDERTAKER JUST SENT THROUGH THE DOOR AND TO THE FLOOR~! Wonder if that was supposed to happen lol.

BDV is fucking DOMINATING both Undertaker and Batista. That's impressive :mark:.

Speaking of impressive... SPINEBUSTER TO BIG DADDY V~!

DDT ON THE STEEL FLOOR BY UNDERTAKER~! Big Daddy V is DEAD, and Batista steals the pin, eliminating the widest man in the match!!! Bah.

Just as he's gone, we get stuck with The Great Khali of all fucking people. We went from a super fun FATTY to a giant useless twat. I swear he botches a fucking CHOP less than 30 seconds into the match.

YOU CAN'T WRESTLE chants :lmao.

KHALI BOMB~!

UNDERTAKER KICKS OUT!!!

Khali tries to pull a MOUNTAIN by squashing Batista's head with his bare hands, but Khali ain't no Strongman and he fails miserably.

OMG IT'S THAT SUBMISSION MANOEUVRE~!

Which submussion manoeuvre?

THAT SUBMISSION MANOEUVRE~!

Khali taps out! Yes! Yes! YES! YES!

FINLAY TIME :mark:.

He comes charging out of the pod and... runs right into a high knee from Undertaker :lmao.

A second running high knee sends Undertaker crashing and burning into the corner though! CELTIC CROSS~! But the DEAD MAN kicks out and continues on his quest to become the number 1 contender for the WHC at WM!!!

Can we just keep MVP locked in the pod? Not like anyone thought he would win lol. We currently have UNDERTAKER Vs FINLAY Vs BATISTA. We don't need nobody else!

Finlay is mauling the Dead Man! And it's fucking awesome, because both guys are awesome. AWESOME. Did I mention awesome? No? Because like, it is. And they are. AWESOME.

Undertaker gets smashed through one of the pods :mark:. Man, Undertaker has taken one hell of a fucking beating in this match so far! And he's still on his feet fighting back!

Ha, MVP seems to be trying to take my advice by staying in his pod :lmao. But Undertaker breaks in and rapes his face. With his fist. 

THERE'S THAT KICK!!! What kick? THAT KICK! Well, this match is full of moves with no names!

I believe it's called the drive by though. And I'm not sure, but I does believe it had that name for some time BEFORE this event. LOL.

BLOOD~! No PG shit here! Undertaker is bleeding from the head, and keeps demanding that MVP punch him in the face! MVP realises that his punches aren't worth shit, and tries to escape by climbing on top of a pod. Big mistake. CHOKESLAM FROM THE POD~! Finlay steals the pin and MVP is GONE :mark:.

Back to an epic triple threat :mark:. Also, Undertaker is technically responsible for eliminating EVERYONE so far. His DDT to BDV allowed Batista to pin him. He tapped out Khali. And then the chokeslam allowed Finlay to eliminate MVP.

:lmao Hornswoggle's head shows up from a small gap in one of the corners, hands Finlay the Sheleighly and... Finlay ends up with a chokeslam on the steel :lmao. Undertaker with ANOTHER elimination!!!

Down to the final 2, and its back to where we started; Undertaker Vs Batista :mark:. God I love simple shit like this, when they work off a previous feud. They battled through 2007, Edge ended up getting involved and stealing the title from them both, and now to gain a shot at Edge for the belt they have to go through each other again :mark:.

Crowd are super into this whole thing :mark:.

BATISTA BOMB~!

Batista is heading to WM!!!

1...

2...

KICK OUT!!! KICK OUT! BAH GAWD THE UNDERTAKER KICKED OUT~!

*sigh* Obvious corner Last Ride set up. Thankfully that isn't the finish .

The ACTUAL finish is fucking :mark:










The Undertaker fucking OWNED this match. Either personally eliminating people or performing the move that would get someone eliminated. He's going to WM and it's more than deserved!!!

Awesome chamber match. Not even MVP or Khali could stop it being awesome!!!

*Rating: ****1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 6*


Teddy Long bans the EDGEHEADS from ringside tonight. Whatever.

Some weird Baywatch parody with Kelly Kelly and a fat guy. In the end Mae Young makes out with him instead. This was to advertise WM. I don't get it.

And then a video showing Maria and Ashley at a Playboy party. Ashley is trying to convince Maria to pose for Playboy. Times sure have changed lol.


*Ric Flair Vs Mr Kennedy - Career Threatening Match*

If Flair loses, he must retire! A month before WM. Because that's totally what would happen .

Kennedy does Flair's strut. Not the first time he's impersonated a professional wrestler 8*D.

Flair has a bad wheel coming into this match, so Kennedy focuses on that, which is smart. FIGURE FOUR LEG LOCK AROUND THE RING POST~! Always love that version of the move :mark:. Even when Kennedy does it.

Kennedy is... well he's just there when it comes to offence. Basic leg work mainly. But Flair is awesome :mark:. At one point, in a normal Figure Four, he's screaming in pain and biting his fucking HANDS to take his mind off his leg pain. Flair showing that even a month away from "retirement", he's still a billion times better than Kennedy!

Figure Four on Kennedy, and Flair keeps his career for a little while longer.

This isn't awful... it's just... a TV opener match at best, not something that should be on PPV.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*Edge Vs Rey Mysterio - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

A rematch from the RR. And this time Rey is injured. Yey...

Floyd Mayweather is at ringside. Was he a cunt back then too? Always a cocky bastard yeah, but he beats his wife now too, right? Urgh. No wonder the fans were behind THE BIG SHOW at WM.

Rey is trying to keep his injured arm away from Edge, while someone building some offense. What's worse is that it's his RIGHT arm that's fucked.

It isn't long before Mysterio gets caught and goes arm first into the steel steps. Ah well, you tried, Rey .

Nothing much happens, and then they repeat the finish from the RR. Yawn. Might have been fun had Rey not been injured.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Thankfully though, the AFTERMATH of this match is fucking :mark:. THE BIG SHOW RETURNS! AND HE'S SLIMMED DOWN!!! He acts like a good guy and then... tries to kill Rey :lmao.

FLOYD MAYWEATHER GETS IN THE RING. HE PUNCHES THE SHIT OUT OF BIG SHOW!!! BIG SHOW IS BLEEDING AND CHASES AFTER FLOYD, WHO IS LITERALLY RUNNING FOR HIS FUCKING LIFE :lmao.

This was a tremendous, awesome segment, and set up one hell of a super fun match at WM :mark:.











*Randy Orton Vs John Cena - WWE Championship Match*

:mark:.

Yes, I didn't put that in by mistake. I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO A CENA VS ORTON MATCH!!! :mark:

So, some backstory on this match. Cena and Orton were feuding from SummerSlam onwards in 2007. Cena got injured. In his absence, Orton won the title. Cena returned (very) early at the RR and won. And he ain't gonna wait for WM... he wants Orton NOW! Sorry, he wants Orton at NWO!!! 

Cena is back and wants his title. While Orton NEEDS to beat Cena. He is the champion, but he didn't win it by beating Cena. He has to beat Cena to prove to HIMSELF that he is the better man.

Early on, Cena keeps going for quick pins, seemingly to mess with Orton psychologically. He knows that Orton is determined to BEAT HIM here tonight, and every time Cena gets a 2 count, he's telling Orton that he's only 1 away from LOSING to him instead.

Nice to see Orton and Cena wrestle and the fans being vocal about the match but in a POSITIVE way lol.

Orton takes a while to really get going, but when he does, he's vicious as fuck :mark:.

However, no matter how VICIOUS Orton seems to be, Cena just won't stay down. They end up battling on the floor, and nearly get counted out!

:lmao at Orton's face after the both charge into the ring to break the 9 count. He looks like he's thinking "WHAT THE FUCK, JOHN? YOU NEARLY GOT COUNTED OUT. I WANT TO BEAT YOU PROPERLY YOU FUCK" .

Again, Orton regains control, but Cena is like the fucking TERMINATOR. STFU, and Orton barely makes it to the ropes. It's here when he realises that perhaps he CAN'T beat Cena, and demands the referee counts him out! Cena comes out to see what the fuck is happening and... walks into an RKO OUT OF NOWHERE!!!

Orton looks pleased with himself, almost like it was his plan all along. Ok, so he wasn't able to keep Cena down for a pin or make him submit, but maybe he can still BEAT Cena via countout!

The ref gets to 9... and Cena makes it back in!!!

And then it happens. One of the greatest DQ endings of ALL TIME. Orton smiles at Cena, then SLAPS THE REFEREE!!! He is DQ'd, and technically loses the match, but fuck it, he's STILL THE CHAMPION!!!

Love the fuck out of this match still. It isn't a wrestling holds clinic, but it has a wonderful story that keeps evolving as the match goes on, and the finish is fucking perfect. :mark:

*Rating: *****
*CAL SCALE - 5*


*Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels Vs Chris Jericho Vs JBL Vs Umaga Vs Jeff Hardy - WWE Championship #1 Contenders Elimination Chamber Match*

HBK and Jericho start this match off. The first chamber match tonight started off with 2 men who had just feuded for the better part of the previous year. This time it's starting with 2 people who would go on to feud for the better part of the current year!!!

Sweet counter to the elbow drop by Jericho, who gets his knees up, forcing HBK to smash his elbows into Jericho's knees! In reality though, Jericho's knees would also be fucked .

YOUMANGA is the first man to be released from his pod!

DOUBLE SAMOAN DROP~!

HBK is bleeding and... I have NO IDEA when it happened :lmao.

WALLS OF JERICHO AND CROSSFACE APPLIED TO UMAGA AT THE SAME TIME~!

JBL comes in and throws some nice punches.

HHH is out next. Man, this match so far has NOTHING on the first one. I'm finding bugger all to write about lol.

Umaga gets thrown head first into the steel post! Clothesline from Hell to HHH! Code Breaker to JBL, and he is the first to be eliminated! Most exciting part of the match so far .

JBL is PISSED that he lost, and returns to the ring with a steel chair and murders everyone!!!

Yey now everyone is bleeding and hurt and very slowly trying to stand up. THAT'LL MAKE THINGS INTERESTING.

Hardy is the final man to be released from his POD~! Maybe he can add some excitement to this one.

He spends about 30 seconds of the first minute he's in the match in the air! He's flying around all over the place, until Umaga kicks his fucking head off :mark:.

BLACK HOLE SLAM FROM THE MONSTER ABY... UMAGA!

UMAGA SMASHED JERICHO THROUGH A POD WITH HIS ARSE~!

SUPERKICK TO UMAGA! CODE BREAKER! PEDIGREE! SWANTON BOMB FROM THE TOP OF A POD! UMAGA IS ELIMINATED~!

SUPERKICK TO JERICHO! JERICHO IS ELIMINATED~!

TWIST OF FATE TO HBK! PEDIGREE! HBK IS ELIMINATED~!

Lol, most fun part of this match has been 3 eliminations in a row within like a minute :lmao.

Hardy misses a Swanton and gets Pedigreed, and THE GAME is going to WM... NO!!! HARDY KICKED OUT! HARDY KICKED OUT!!! I HONESTLY THOUGHT THAT WAS THE FINISH!!!

Twist of Fate gets reversed and Hardy gets smashed back first onto the steel chair, then gets Pedigreed on it!

AND NOW HHH GOES TO WM!

Meh. Not too bothered about this match. I remember it being better. But honestly it was kinda dull outside of the eliminations that mostly happened all at once.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 12.5*​


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Rewatched Lesnar/Reigns(/Rollins) from WM last night, and was super-impressed and then super-pissed all over again. I wrote in my initial review that Reigns' performance here should have been his "Tommy Dreamer taking the Singapore cane" moment; instead, the crowd shat on it like it was a case of SuperCena excess from deep in the bowels of 2010. I wish I could say it was mystifying, but re-reading up on the way Reigns was booked in the lead-up makes it decidedly less so. I'm watching the Undertaker/Batista series from '07, so maybe that's influencing my thinking, but that version of Batista -- the one who won the '05 Rumble, destroyed HHH at back-to-back-to-back ppvs, and engaged in some of the finest heavyweight bomb-throwing in WWE history with Taker a couple years later -- should be Reigns' spiritual role model, right? With Rollins the smarmy "corporate champion" and Ambrose the "lunatic fringe," Reigns should be the one-man embodiment of everything the Shield used to be. WWE put on display so much of the effort they put into getting him over as a face, that they clearly forgot they had already done so earlier that year, when he dominated the '14 Rumble, broke Cena's STF with his bare hands, stood up to the Wyatt Family solo in a way that even freaked out a still-effective Bray. The WWE Universe was behind that guy in a way you want your fans to be behind your top guy. So what happened? Why is he booked like such shit in the '15 Rumble? Why does creative try to turn the real-life hostility they created against the guy into storylines, struggling to portray the enforcer of the Shield as an underdog with all the odds against him? Why does the go-home show before the biggest pay-per-view of the year end with him and his monstrous opponent just pulling the belt back and forth in a weird display of uncomfortable-making? I believed in Roman Reigns once, and after WrestleMania, I believed in him again -- but most of the audience was just done with him. Why make us stop believing when they needed us to the most? Shit like this is why I only watch isolated matches whenever possible.

/months-out-of-date rant

Still a great friggin' match, though. Watching Vader/Bradshaw (and Owen/Edge from the same show) now.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

NWO 2008 is the best NWO/EC PPV ever. That SD! chamber is the best ever imo too. Best finish ever


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

KENNY said:


> Just been reading a thread about Owen Hart, and got me curious to watch some of his matches.
> 
> I'm curious on peoples opinions on these, or if they know of a link to watch them.
> 
> ...


You ought to combine your Owen and Vader watching binge by viewing Owen vs Vader One Night Only 1997. Fucking amazing match, I think it's neck and neck between that match and the Michaels SS 96' match for Vaders best singles outing in the WWE (his best match in the WWE is that IYH: Final Four 1997 masterpiece with Bret/Austin/Taker/Vader, where Vader is the stand out performer amongst all those all time greats. "VADER IS LIKE A BIG OL' GRIZZLY BEAR!!!" :mark: :mark: :mark:


funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao Was that The Miz's theme playing right before the tip off of the Wizards/Hawks game?


Paul. Effing. Pierce. 

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE!!!

"I called GAME" :mark: :mark:

P.S. Hayley when I recently redid my top 100 WWE matches list, Punk/Lesnar came in at #8 behind only Bret/Austin, Taker/HBK HiaC, Mankind/HBK, Eddie/JBL, Austin/Angle, Bret/Owen WM 10, and Benoit/Finlay JD 06'. Not top 5 but not too shabby either, my love for that match knows no bounds, and I wasn't even there to see it live like you :mark:


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I love that Elimination Chamber match. It's Batista vs. Undertaker with all of these other guys getting in the middle of their amazing brawl. I know it wasn't booked like this exactly but I just picture them going to war, someone getting into the ring, Batista and Undertaker beating the shit out of that person, then they keep fighting until someone else is dumb enough to get in their way.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Does anyone know a reliable site/program where you can download Dailymotion videos and save them to your computer? I know I can just google search and find several but idk which ones I can actually trust.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

I use Keepvid.com. Never had any problems with Dailymotion videos, though it's not much good for Youtube.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I use to use JDownloader but it's sucked for a while now. I use Freemake now; pretty sure that supports Dailymotion.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

#ROOT said:


> *No Way Out 2008*
> 
> The #1 Ramble was No Mercy 2008. The #101 Ramble is the beginning of the rest of 2008! I'm shocked I've made it this far haha.
> 
> ...


Looks like I may have to check out this PPV. Don't remember watching it, if I did it'd be back when it aired.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Does anyone know a reliable site/program where you can download Dailymotion videos and save them to your computer? I know I can just google search and find several but idk which ones I can actually trust.


If you are on Firefox there is a plugin you can use. Or try clipconverter.cc. I always use that one, doesn't require Java to be on either.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Think I only own another... 2 2008 PPV's on DVD now :lmao. Kinda need to download all the other events so I can eventually finish the year off. Same with 2009 .

clipconverter.cc. is a good site for downloading embedded vids. I use it too. Got a program I use specifically for youtube called Youtube Video Downloader Pro. Requires being "bought" to work the best though :side:.

And now for some BLOG~! plugs . Posted another 2006 Ramble yesterday, believe it was Survivor Series . Oh and hey, everyone get involved in my INTERACTIVE GENERAL MANAGER mode will ya? For SD Vs Raw 2006. Check out my BLOG~! for more info, or go to the thread in the wrestling games section here .


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I really need to check out that Kennedy/Taker match again.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You do. So does everyone else. Nobody seems to appreciate it like I do .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Vader & Arn Anderson vs. Marcus Bagwell & The Patriot (WCW Saturday Night 4.15.1995)*

x2pspge

A DM upload actually fucking worked. Really fun tag match that id recommend. (Y)


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

#ROOT said:


> You do. So does everyone else. Nobody seems to appreciate it like I do .


I think I will. I'm sure I watched it in 2006, but not since. I marked for Kennedy and have always loved 'Taker. 



Brock said:


> *Vader & Arn Anderson vs. Marcus Bagwell & The Patriot (WCW Saturday Night 4.15.1995)*
> 
> x2pspge
> 
> A DM upload actually fucking worked. Really fun tag match that id recommend. (Y)


Vader. :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I ended up using freemake and that worked well for me, so thanks for the help fellas. (Y)

Can't say I've seen the SSeries match in years, but at least I appreciate Taker & Kennedy's match from No Mercy as much as you do, Cal.  MOTN at that PPV.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I ended up using freemake and that worked well for me, so thanks for the help fellas. (Y)
> 
> Can't say I've seen the SSeries match in years, but at least I appreciate Taker & Kennedy's match from No Mercy as much as you do, Cal.  MOTN at that PPV.


ME LOVE YOU LONG TIME.

I mean... .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Kenta Kobashi vs. Stan Hansen (All Japan Triple Crown) (09.05.1996)*

x2pts12

Uploaded this for the 'Hansen-ites' here. Think the match was jipped before, but this is the complete version i got from a Kobashi commercial release.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

- WWE issued another Fan Council survey today to gauge interest in possible 2016 DVD releases:

Iron Man Matches
Shane McMahon
Best of Superstars

Randy Orton

Hardcore
Divas Biography
The History of the U.S. Championship
The Usos
The Best of RAW & SmackDown ’15
Best PPV Matches ’15

The Miz & Mizdow
Stardust
The Best of NXT
Unreleased Matches
Total Divas Season 1

Surely even WWE couldn't mess up a best of NXT set?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Best of superstars would be :mark:.

Hardcore DVD looking at the division from 98 to 2002 would be :mark:.

And of course Best of NXT could be cracking, especially if they threw in some FCW stuff too :mark:.

But of course WWE ABSOLUTELY could fuck up any of these sets :lmao. It's WWE ffs. They fucked up a Lawler set. THEY FUCKED UP A JERRY FREAKIN' LAWLER SET.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Oh god, an Iron Man match collection would be fucking awful. There'd be like 6 on the whole thing. 

People in this thread would be like the only ones in American who would vote for a Best of Superstars set. :lol

History of the U.S. Championship would be cool but would be INCREDIBLY incomplete without Chris Benoit being involved, so fuck that.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

As much as an Iron Man match collection would be an overall waste, if it means we get a DVD-quality version of Angle/Lesnar (dare we hope for uncut?) floating around it'll be worth it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bruce L said:


> As much as an Iron Man match collection would be an overall waste, if it means we get a DVD-quality version of Angle/Lesnar (dare we hope for uncut?) floating around it'll be worth it.


We already have that . On Bluray too . Uncut .


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Big Cal's World said:


> We already have that . On Bluray too . Uncut .


:surprise: We... You... It's...

I DEMAND MORE INFORMATION PLEASE AND THANK YOU.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Greatest Superstars of the 21st Century DVD and Bluray .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Seeing as how this is a WWE DVD thread, and how we seem to get a fair amount of posts from people asking about different sets they have released, Im going to weigh in and list the sets WWE did NOT fuck up, or if they did fuck them up its not bad enough as to warrant not purchasing them. I own just about every worthwhile WWE set, maybe a few have gotten past me but here is my own personal ranking of the sets I own:

The Cream of the Crop (these are the absolute BEST WWE releases IMO):

1. Bret Hart: The best there is, the best there was, the best there ever will be
2. Rey Mysterio: The Biggest Little Man
3. Eddie Guerrero: Viva La Raza
4. Mick Foley: Biggest Hits & Misses-HARDCORE EDITION
5. The Undertaker: Tombstone
6. Ric Flair: The Ultimate Collection
7. The Undertaker: The Streak
8. Brock Lesnar: Here Comes the Pain
9. Chris Benoit: Hard Knocks

Really good sets (these are still worth buying but have a few flaws keeping them from being the best):

1. The History of the World Heavyweight Championship
2. The Best of In Your House
3. Shawn Michaels: My Journey
4. Chris Jericho: Breaking the Code
5. The History of Mid South
6. Starrcade: The Essential Collection
7. Ric Flair: The Definitive collection
8. Falls Count Anywhere

These are based ONLY on match selection, not on the quality of the documentary (if there is one). These 17 or so sets are the ones I've found to be worth owning. Let me know if you think I forgot any.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Seeing as how this is a WWE DVD thread, and how we seem to get a fair amount of posts from people asking about different sets they have released, Im going to weigh in and list the sets WWE did NOT fuck up, or if they did fuck them up its not bad enough as to warrant not purchasing them. I own just about every worthwhile WWE set, maybe a few have gotten past me but here is my own personal ranking of the sets I own:
> 
> The Cream of the Crop (these are the absolute BEST WWE releases IMO):
> 
> ...


Hmmm... I must be going (more) blind, I can't see BEST OF SATURDAY NIGHT'S MAIN EVENT there :side:.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I would consider The Rise & Fall of ECW to be one of the finest releases the company has ever put together, especially since it was only two discs. One of my all time favorites from the collection. 

The History of the WWE Championship is an all time great, too. So many classics BEFORE they became repeats on every set. 

I've also always been a big supporter of The Legacy of Stone Cold Steve Austin & The Best of RAW & Smackdown 2011. So much variety on both.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

Am I the only one kind of surprised about the possibility of a Shane O'Mac DVD? That KOTR match against Angle :mark:

EDIT: And the Ambulance match against Kane :mark:


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Just wanted to pop in here and put over Austin's tour de force of a medium sized heel from Summerslam 2001. So many great little things. From the jump the violent way that Austin threw the belt before brawling and that Hansen esque cutoff eyepoke he gave to Angle before the brawl and then shoving the title in his face. That sadistic smile Austin had when he was beating the piss out of Angle on the outside; the spot where Austin was mocking Angle's technical ability by giving him two vertical suplexes and then that sarcastic pat/rake to the back, hell even when the first ref took away Austin's belt and Austin gave him that arrogant head shake and flipped him off: all awesome little touches. Austin when he needed to turn around and sell for the comeback spurts was good too ala taking those eight germans and then selling afterwards, that nice little touch of Austin actually dragging his fingernails as he went to the ropes to break the Ankle Lock instead of the so often seen nowadays nonchalantly fast crawling to the ropes, limping around, getting angry at the refs during the 3 count and going beyond the Taker stareoff and actually getting on the refs. Awesome performance. When someone is giving that rare level of performance, all you gotta do is follow the ride (especially when it is a heel since heels usually dictate the match), but that visual of a delirious Angle having the Ankle Lock on Austin over the barricade and never breaking was awesome. Fantastic match save for a few pretty nitpicky things like the moonsault spot after all that blood and punishment (though yes probably to highlight crazy Angle) and I do think the kickout of Stunner 3 was pretty excessive and while in the context of the Invasion angle I see what they went for with the chickenshit finish, but I thought it could've been even more impactful to skip that and have Austin win clean off the 3rd stunner to create that "hopeless" illusion WWE reserves for monsters or to cement the Angle = warrior part of the story, have him go over clean. 

Stars? Incredible match ****3/4 and honestly if you cut out the finish, the moonsault complaint is such a small nitpick that I'd go five.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Speaking of that match, I uploaded it recently . Nice, awesome DVD quality and whatnot. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k5jGBq9auqM7kqb2i5F


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WrestlingOracle said:


> Just wanted to pop in here and put over Austin's tour de force of a medium sized heel from Summerslam 2001. So many great little things. From the jump the violent way that Austin threw the belt before brawling and that Hansen esque cutoff eyepoke he gave to Angle before the brawl and then shoving the title in his face. That sadistic smile Austin had when he was beating the piss out of Angle on the outside; the spot where Austin was mocking Angle's technical ability by giving him two vertical suplexes and then that sarcastic pat/rake to the back, hell even when the first ref took away Austin's belt and Austin gave him that arrogant head shake and flipped him off: all awesome little touches. Austin when he needed to turn around and sell for the comeback spurts was good too ala taking those eight germans and then selling afterwards, that nice little touch of Austin actually dragging his fingernails as he went to the ropes to break the Ankle Lock instead of the so often seen nowadays nonchalantly fast crawling to the ropes, limping around, getting angry at the refs during the 3 count and going beyond the Taker stareoff and actually getting on the refs. Awesome performance. When someone is giving that rare level of performance, all you gotta do is follow the ride (especially when it is a heel since heels usually dictate the match), but that visual of a delirious Angle having the Ankle Lock on Austin over the barricade and never breaking was awesome. Fantastic match save for a few pretty nitpicky things like the moonsault spot after all that blood and punishment (though yes probably to highlight crazy Angle) and I do think the kickout of Stunner 3 was pretty excessive and while in the context of the Invasion angle I see what they went for with the chickenshit finish, but I thought it could've been even more impactful to skip that and have Austin win clean off the 3rd stunner to create that "hopeless" illusion WWE reserves for monsters or to cement the Angle = warrior part of the story, have him go over clean.
> 
> Stars? Incredible match ****3/4 and honestly if you cut out the finish, the moonsault complaint is such a small nitpick that I'd go five.





Big Cal's World said:


> Speaking of that match, I uploaded it recently . Nice, awesome DVD quality and whatnot. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k5jGBq9auqM7kqb2i5F



When I first joined this forum back in the summer of 2013 (wow I've been posting in this thread for 2 years already...time flies) the first topic I remember reading about was people debating whether Austin/Angle SS 01' or Brock/Rock SS 02' was better. I hadn't seen either of those matches since they aired, and had just recently purchased the 1998-2002 Summerslam set so I popped them both in to give them a watch. Brock/Rock was awesome of course, but I remember getting the full blown goosebumps, "holy shit is this ever awesome" feeling from watchinf Angle/Austin. I remember my reply was something like "this might be an unpopular opinion, but I think Angle/Austin is one of the best matches I've ever seen, I'd give it 5-stars" and either Zep or Hayley replied "that's not really an unpopular opinion at all in here" and that's when I knew I had finally found a good place to talk pro graps.

You could compile a 5 page document over the amount of posts I've spent raving about Austin/Angle SS 01' so I won't spill any more ink over it here. My rock solid, likely will never change unless a miracle happens top 5 matches in WWE history are: 1a. Austin/Bret WM 13 1b. HBK/Taker HiaC 3. Mankind/HBK 4. Eddie/JBL JD 04' 5. Austin/Angle SS 01'. So yea, I think the world of that match, and as awesome as Austins heel performance was, the best of his whole career iMO, Angle deserves a good bit of credit as well for being the PERFECT baby face for Austin to torture. Angle sold his fucking ass off like I've never seen him do before or since, and his baby face fire/come back culminating in the Ankle Lock on the barricade ---> followed by him bellowing out "WOOOOO" like a maniac ----> followed by him literally dragging Austin by his Ankle back into the ring ranks right up there with best moments in any match I've ever seen.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Curt Hennig vs. Stan Hansen (Las Vegas 5/31/86)*

Excellent match here. Hansen starts the match cutting a promo on Jerry Blackwell, who
is also in the ring, then proceeds to beat the shit out of him until Hennig
comes storming in and takes it right to Stan. Curt esp here just gives a fantastic performance IMO.

I really need to watch more of Hennig pre WWF, TBH.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Big Cal's World said:


> Greatest Superstars of the 21st Century DVD and Bluray .


I will do amazing, unspeakable things for you if you have that and are able to upload it somewhere at some point.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Chris remember when you refused to watch Eddie/JBL? Now you never STFU about it 8*D


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lol Two wrestling references in consecutive Wizards/Hawks games. Now they're talking about Ivan Putski.

I believe that Hennig/Hansen match was voted to be the best AWA match of all-time by DVDVR.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Rotf @ how many times Vince directed Cole to put out there that Cincinnati is Ambrose's hometown when the crowd kept chanting for him. God forbid people get the impression that he's over, when he's not who they want.

It was so blatant. *Long pause* "Cincinnati loves its native son, Dean Ambrose." :lol


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I believe that Hennig/Hansen match was voted to be the best AWA match of all-time by DVDVR.


Came 5th.

1. Nick Bockwinkel vs. Curt Hennig	(11/21/86)
2. Buddy Rose & Doug Somers vs. Midnight Rockers	(8/30/86)
3. Buddy Rose & Doug Somers vs. Midnight Rockers (Cage Match)	(1/17/87)	
4. Nick Bockwinkel vs. Wahoo McDaniel	(8/28/83)	
5. Stan Hansen vs. Curt Hennig (5/31/86)


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

holy shit that Cena/Neville match. Sucks that Rusev made a run-in, but says a lot that they didn't have Cena pin Neville.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

I am loving this Cena US title open challenge.

Ambrose ***1/4
Barrett ***1/2
Zayn ***1/4
Neville ***3/4


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I think I have that one at ****. Definitely ***3/4 - **** range, not sure.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Cena/Neville was awesome. Neville looks like a star every week but man did he look like a main event talent tonight. WWE protecting Neville with a loss was great and totally unexpected as I thought he would eat a pin. Hope these two go at it again. 

These open challenges man. One of the entertaining things about RAW.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

For me, Cena vs. Neville was the best RAW match of the year. Besides the fact that I LEGITIMATELY felt like Neville had a chance to win, the match was structured so much differently than you'd expect. Neville using his speed and youth to control the entire match while Cena had to rely sheerly on his power to gain any upper hand. Cena looked exhausted. Loved it! *** 3/4

I've never disliked Rusev so much.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Awesome Cena/Neville match. **** for it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Ya know, I'd put Neville behind Rollins right now as WWE's #2 wrestler of the year. Rollins has been Mr. consistency all year long, but Neville has had a shit ton of good matches since debuting on the main roster. Verus Rollins, Barrett, Harper, and now against Cena. If we count his work in NXT against Owens & Balor then he's a definite runner up! Been an awesome rise for the young guy.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

It's a shame Cena and Rusev haven't worked because if they'd have had some good PPV matches Cena would be set to have an amazing year in ring wise.

Regardless he's still WOTY for me so far, who would everyone else say?

EDIT: Beaten to it :lol


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Holy shit, I completely forgot RAW toight! Wtf is wrong with me?

Looks like I have to check out Cena/Neville? Any other interesting things happened?


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

I think Bryan's done


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Holy shit, I completely forgot RAW toight! Wtf is wrong with me?
> 
> Looks like I have to check out Cena/Neville? Any other interesting things happened?


Well, Bryan just vacated the IC Title on his own and said no one knows how long he'll be out. So that sucked. Other than that and Cena/Neville, just more dissension between Kane & Rollins and a fun little segment where Macho Mandow and Axelmania joined forces against The Ascension.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Holy shit the Elimination Chamber is back out of nowhere! May 31st on the network!


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Yeah1993, what was the date & show of the Yoshi/Kidd match that you like?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> When I first joined this forum back in the summer of 2013 (wow I've been posting in this thread for 2 years already...time flies) the first topic I remember reading about was people debating whether Austin/Angle SS 01' or Brock/Rock SS 02' was better. I hadn't seen either of those matches since they aired, and had just recently purchased the 1998-2002 Summerslam set so I popped them both in to give them a watch. Brock/Rock was awesome of course, but I remember getting the full blown goosebumps, "holy shit is this ever awesome" feeling from watchinf Angle/Austin. I remember my reply was something like "this might be an unpopular opinion, but I think Angle/Austin is one of the best matches I've ever seen, I'd give it 5-stars" and either Zep or Hayley replied "that's not really an unpopular opinion at all in here" and that's when I knew I had finally found a good place to talk pro graps.
> 
> You could compile a 5 page document over the amount of posts I've spent raving about Austin/Angle SS 01' so I won't spill any more ink over it here. My rock solid, likely will never change unless a miracle happens top 5 matches in WWE history are: 1a. Austin/Bret WM 13 1b. HBK/Taker HiaC 3. Mankind/HBK 4. Eddie/JBL JD 04' 5. Austin/Angle SS 01'. So yea, I think the world of that match, and as awesome as Austins heel performance was, the best of his whole career iMO, Angle deserves a good bit of credit as well for being the PERFECT baby face for Austin to torture. Angle sold his fucking ass off like I've never seen him do before or since, and his baby face fire/come back culminating in the Ankle Lock on the barricade ---> followed by him bellowing out "WOOOOO" like a maniac ----> followed by him literally dragging Austin by his Ankle back into the ring ranks right up there with best moments in any match I've ever seen.


I loved the Austin/Angle series, and was interesting to see roles reversed (Austin heel, Angle face). **** 3/4 for Summerslam. I just watched Unforgiven 2001 where Angle wins the title, and the triple threat with RVD. All stellar.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I don;t keep up with NXT much, but is the next 'special' next week?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

LilOlMe said:


> Yeah1993, what was the date & show of the Yoshi/Kidd match that you like?


It's..........


I don't think I've ever seen a Yoshi/Kidd match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Brock said:


> I don;t keep up with NXT much, but is the next 'special' next week?


Yeah it's next Wednesday, the 20th. I'm wondering if Zayn is healthy enough to work it. Itami was already pulled from it due to injury.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Flux said:


> Chris remember when you refused to watch Eddie/JBL? Now you never STFU about it 8*D


Hey Robbie, remember that time you shut up? Yea, neither do I. :side:


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

@Brock I decided to check out your DM channel. There's so much I want to watch from it. 

Mickie/Trish WM22
Foley/Edge/Lita vs Funk/Dreamer/Beulah
Bret Hart vs Roddy Piper - Wrestlemania 8
Undertaker vs Bret Hart (Royal Rumble 1996)
Sting vs Bret Hart (WCW Monday Nitro 10.18.1999)
CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy - WWE Smackdown 08.28.2009 (Cage Match)
Ric Flair vs Randy Savage - WCW Great American Bash 1995
Flair/Funk GAB 1989
Dangerous Alliance vs Sting’s Squadron (Wargames) (Wrestlewar 5.17.92)
The Undertaker vs John Cena (Smackdown 08.07.2003)

That's a start anyway, there's heaps. 

I'm currently watching Steiners promo from Survivor Series 2002 :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

(Y) Glad someone takes notice lol.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> It's..........
> 
> 
> I don't think I've ever seen a Yoshi/Kidd match.


There was some random Tyson Kidd match that you were pimping, right, or am I imagining it? Maybe I just imagined the Yoshi part.

I think you said that it was the best of Kidd's career, and top 10 something or other.

Sorry for the lack of specifics, lol.

Could someone give me some of Kidd's best main roster matches, please?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I'm sure Yeah1993 likes Yoshi.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Speaking of uploads, just updated my list of Dailymotion video links. Majority of these are set to private so they won't appear on my channel:



Spoiler: matches and shit



Steve Austin Vs Kurt Angle - SummerSlam 2001

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k1p6zxqwNuxuCXb2i5F

Eddie Guerrero and Tajiri Vs Shelton Benjamin and Charlie Hass - WWE Smackdown May 22nd 2003

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/kyGu6iOY54QVeg6MlGT

Eddie Guerrero and Tajiri Vs Shelton Benjamin and Charlie Hass - WWE Smackdown May 29th 2003

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7L178BRt0xwso6MpTb

Eddie Guerrero and Tajiri Vs Shelton Benjamin and Charlie Hass - WWE Smackdown July 3rd 2003

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/kWYIfVsMdGdaXf6MtBn

Eddie Guerrero and Tajiri Vs Shelton Benjamin and Charlie Hass - WWE Smackdown July 3rd 2003 - Aftermath

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k6srNRmNm7ZN6W6MvX8

WeeLC

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k3zC2ScMgC9Qzo7pmXB

Sheamus & Christian Vs The Real Americans - WWE Raw Feb 10th 2014

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k3GqqQRFbRrOw07X14g

FCW - Seth Rollins vs Dean Ambrose I - FCW 15 Championship - FCW 15 Match - Aug14-11

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k57J6ptcU9fDMe7ZggB

Chris Benoit vs Bobby Lashley - Raw 11.6.07

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k5vDLVHQs8v88A8eQ5u

Randy Orton Vs Edge - WWE Raw Dec 13th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/ko3P2FuCHLsocU8obJY

Finlay Vs Rey Mysterio - WWE Smackdown 24th March 2006

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k5XTRImp2ZPAy38CCRz

Kevin Steen Vs Jerry Lawler

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k2B3yzOTHfAGJ496Eep

Jack Jester Vs Drew Galloway - ICW Championship - Fear & Loathing VII November 2nd 2014

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7qLxH6H6oBpbn9iBOe

Night Of The Grudges 2 8.20.05 Nigel McGuinness vs Colt Cabana

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k4pU5CWxAGTBV29q8DU

Steven Regal Vs Billy Kidman - WCW Nitro July 12th 1999

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k6s8KA6BeqVDFkaUKky

FCW - Dean Ambrose vs Damien Sandow - FCW 15 Championship - Dec11-11

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/kWWHxQLJlmLwOhaWIKu

Christian Vs Regal - ECW August 25th 2009

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k3JtI4tAqRPUN8aYpJ8

Jack Swagger Vs Yoshi Tatsu - ECW 22.12.2009

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7d1oFV54BPtvf5lAkg

Jake Roberts Vs Dirty White Boy - Smoky Mountain Wrestling 07/05/1994

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k1dCrOO5XxRWee5mWxx

Cody Rhodes & Goldust Vs The Real Americans - MSG 26.12.2013 Cage

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7t7VQVa1CMLk05u9lf

Daniel Bryan Vs The Big Show Vs Mark Henry - WHC WWE MSG 18.03.2012

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/kdkPJfa7XXHdTG5wx6e

Cesaro Vs Sami Zayn - NXT Arrival 27.02.2014

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k3uxyq8530PYwc5Fd2d

The Undertaker Vs Haku - WWF Raw January 29th 2001

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k6EV1cge4MnDx065OAN

Mark Henry Vs Chris Benoit - WWE Smackdown May 26th 2006

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/kO6jUKE2A93uEg6Mg6K

Orton Vs Jericho - WWE Raw July 5th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k52MZ4j2t4l52b5dSHW (private)

Shelton Benjamin Vs HHH - WWE Raw March 29th 2004avi

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k4V7XxVHPyk4az5d9qE (private)

Benoit, Jericho & Edge Vs Evolution - WWE Raw August 2nd 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k3CQ3qE6a1kcKI5daxq (private)

Rock and Orton segment - WWE Raw June 21st 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k1BXJ1EgzUyTJv5d9Sz (private)

Chris Benoit Vs Kane - WWE Raw June 28th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k2ntLoTQ7b8Cmf5d4NU (private)

Evolution vs Foley, Benoit, Shelton & HBK - WWE Raw April 12th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k51s7Se7gn5uBY5d3i7 (private)

Highlight Reel with Benoit & Flair + Henry Vs Benoit - Raw February 2nd 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k2dyVp3DakkRTj5cNp8 (private)

Benoit, Jericho & Edge vs Evolution - Raw June 14th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k40LAuV2HbSQjs5cM44 (private)

Chris Benoit Vs Ric Flair - WWE Raw February 9th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7bT45kPaDbEyu5cLhj (private)

Edge & Chris Benoit Vs La Resistance - Raw May 31st 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k3od9BiromV3ae51fUb (Private)

Shawn Michaels Vs Randy Orton - Raw June 7th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k5N1lLOTFzK0sc51fu3 (Private)

Edge & Chris Benoit Vs Randy Orton & Batista - Raw May 17th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k4Hm8kdgTlqqre50aRC (Private)

Chris Benoit Vs Shawn Michaels - Raw May 3rd 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k2ULkUkyoDP1mA50agQ (Private)

Chris Benoit Vs Shawn Michaels - Raw February 16th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/kuirLH6QHGxxiV4WfsF (Private)

Randy Orton Vs RVD - Raw January 12th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k5U6cCtecMLXdW4WeA5 (Private)

Triple H Vs Edge Vs Chris Benoit - Raw November 29th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k5cOPWGFf4CIQv4WdQg (Private)

Chris Benoit Vs Randy Orton - WHC Match - Raw August 16th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k23LarpwQG5mvT4W6i4 (Private)

Shawn Michaels vs Venom - TWA 2000

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k2PDhaGG3tUhpu4T6YU (Private)

The Undertaker Vs The Big Show - Last Man Standing - Cyber Sunday 2008

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/kLgYDzON7hELq14QzOS (Private)

CZW_ROH - Team ROH vs Team CZW - The 100th Show

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k4kGuiJScj2TWI4Q1GJ (Private)

Joe vs. Punk III

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7eG0OCaljmhkt4PYoc (Private)

Bryan Danielson vs Takeshi Morishima - ROH Glory By Honor VI Night 2

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/keTj0PXoULmNOA4PM70 (Private)

Cody Rhodes & Goldust Vs The Shield Vs The Usos - Hell in a Cell 2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7peorzOZIUgUp4PHBl (Private)

Goldust Vs Seth Rollins - WWE Main Event 23.10.2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k2uM6XOe1NHnST4OCmJ (Private)

Gilbert Melendez Vs Diego Sanchez - UFC 166

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k26A99GSZfJdyX4NCwI (Private)

Christian & Tommy Dreamer Vs Vladimir Kovlov & Ezekiel Jackson - ECW 08.09.2009

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k25bMA4KDK3bQN4N9ee (Private)

FCW - Dean Ambrose vs Damien Sandow - FCW 15 Championship - Dec11-11

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7GwJAIEA6R5fb4MIjJ (Private)

Impact 4.13.2006 - Christopher Daniels vs Samoa Joe

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7MOkPzONCzNxL4MHGF (Private)

Goldust Vs Sheamus - wwe.superstars.2009.08.13

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7kiO46lJjKgD64MHu3 (Private)

FCW - William Regal vs Dean Ambrose II - July15-12

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k3jRtwpIWU51DI4MHep (Private)

FCW - William Regal vs Dean Ambrose I - FCW TV - Nov6-11

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/kzxHU4gA5yW2zW4MGoG (Private)

Christian Vs William Regal - ECW 19.01.2010

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k4H8o2dmwt03nr4MFL8 (Private)

Christian & Kane Vs William Regal & Ezekiel Jackson - ECW 26.01.2010

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/kZR862mqgGdeXe4MFlv (Private)

Sami Zayn Vs Jack Swagger - WWE.NXT.2013.9.4.HDTV

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/ks58nUYOcx6Xsq4MF3V (Private)

Sami.Zayn.vs.Antonio.Cesaro.2.Out.Of.3.Falls.Match.720p.(from 2013-08-21.NXT)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k5d7Frtu679mEs4LWFA (Private)

The Shield Vs The Rhodes Family - WWE Raw 14 October 2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7EkZ9CETAUp1i4LWf1 (Private)

The Shield Vs The Rhodes Family - WWE Battleground 2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/kdPVwbTfC28BtB4LVxV (Private)

Chris Benoit Vs Triple H - Iron Man Match - WWE Raw July 26th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k4uGbg91R8alIV4Ktiu (Private)

The Undertaker Vs Kurt Angle - WWE Smackdown 04/09/2003

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k4LZRH02Lko6Xl4KhjX (Private)

John Cena vs. CM Punk_ Raw, Feb. 25, 2013 (Full-Length Match

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k6qIm66LHeDRvu4xq1B (Private)

Regal & Finlay Vs Hardy & Gunner SD June 16 2006

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/kmKoEvKRDF95r44q35D (Private)

William Regal Vs Kassuis Ohno - NXT April 11th 2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k6IcZhWpO1ovAG3YaSR (Private)

The Undertaker Vs Mr Kennedy - Nurnberg Germany 08.11.2006

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k66b627YjNUJ673VyRC (Private)

Cena Vs Umaga Raw July 17th 2006

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xyj9dd_cena-vs-umaga-raw-july-17th-2006_sport

Cena Vs Shelton Raw July 10th 2006

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xyj970_cena-vs-shelton-raw-july-10th-2006_sport

Piper Story (Funny story from a legends of wrestling roundtable)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xxu6hk_piper-story_sport

Finlay Vs The Undertaker - Smackdown 09.03.2007

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k2y8khvvZHfJ7V3OaDW

The Shield - Smackdown 18.01.2013 (Promo)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k1wigayEocztdP3JP6w (Private)

Damien Sandow & Antonio Cesaro Vs Tyson Kidd & Justin Gabriel - NXT 16.01.2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k40j4sJy4tuRnO3JvwI (Private)

Team Hell No & Dr Shelby - Raw 14.01.2013 (Promo)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k3Ujo7PUTylQGo3J269 (Private)

Big Show & Antonio Cesaro Vs Sheamus & Randy Orton - Smackdown 04.01.2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k1mHP3NbZDkyZS3ISrV (Private)

CM Punk Vs Ryback - TLC - Raw 07.01.2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/kaX2WNpbJJPq6s3ISg3 (Private)

John Cena Vs Dolph Ziggler - Raw 07.01.2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k4E1rKKACxspxV3IRXZ (Private)

Devon Vs Joseph Park - TNA Genesis 13/01/2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k3EmJCuv7f1cC03IQmZ (Private)

The Big Show Vs Alberto Del Rio - Last Man Standing - Smackdown 11.01.2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/keFHQZ8bHKCpZt3IEBi (Private)

Sheamus Vs Dolph Ziggler - Main Event 09.01.2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k44l3OiQD9gZht3I6qZ (Private)

Punk & Rock promo 07.01.2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7zeGj30ihkuzs3HFD6 (Private)

Scotty 2 Hotty Vs Dean malenko Vs Taka Michinoku - WWF Sunday Night Heat April 23rd 2000

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xw...u-wwf-sunday-night-heat-april-23rd-2000_sport

Scott Steiner Vs Cruiserweights - WCW Nitro Feb 5th 2001

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xw5kvn_scott-steiner-vs-cruiserweights-wcw-nitro-feb-5th-2001_sport

HHH Vs Big Show - Raw Feb 13th 2006

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvyws9_hhh-vs-big-show-raw-feb-13th-2006_sport

Triple H Vs Ric Flair - WWE Raw Febuary 6th 2006

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvuvhw_triple-h-vs-ric-flair-wwe-raw-febuary-6th-2006_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Superstars – 12/10/88)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvtz6e_rockers-vs-brainbusters-superstars-12-10-88_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Spectrum – 12/18/88)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu017_rockers-vs-brainbusters-spectrum-12-18-88_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Boston Garden – 1/13/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu109_rockers-vs-brainbusters-boston-garden-1-13-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (MSG – 1/23/89, audio issues)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu256_rockers-vs-brainbusters-msg-1-23-89-audio-issues_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (LA Sports Arena – 1/29/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu328_rockers-vs-brainbusters-la-sports-arena-1-29-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Superstars – 2/18/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu3b4_rockers-vs-brainbusters-superstars-2-18-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (SNME – 3/11/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu43q_rockers-vs-brainbusters-snme-3-11-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (MSG – 3/18/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu4mc_rockers-vs-brainbusters-msg-3-18-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Boston Garden – 3/18/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu56g_rockers-vs-brainbusters-boston-garden-3-18-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Prime Time Wrestling – 3/27/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu5ve_rockers-vs-brainbusters-prime-time-wrestling-3-27-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (SNME – 11/25/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu69j_rockers-vs-brainbusters-snme-11-25-89_sport

Windham Vs Tenryu

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xuty9o_windham-vs-tenryu_sport

Mr Perfect Vs Ronnie Garvin MSG March 1989

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xthl0y_mr-perfect-vs-ronnie-garvin-msg-march-1989_sport

Ricky Steamboat Vs Steven Regal No DQ - WCW Main Event 8.8.93

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xo...teven-regal-no-dq-wcw-main-event-8-8-93_sport

Dusty gets distracted (funny comentary)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xkxkqh_dusty-gets-distracted_shortfilms

Bret Hart & British Bulldog Vs Owen Hart & Jim Neidhart from 19th October 1994

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbxrwx_bret-hart-british-bulldog-vs-owen-h_sport

Arn Anderson Vs Steven Regal - WCW Superbrawl 20.02.1994 CD1

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbukoi_arn-anderson-vs-steven-regal-wcw-su_sport

Arn Anderson Vs Steven Regal - WCW Superbrawl 20.02.1994 CD2

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbulcn_arn-anderson-vs-steven-regal-wcw-su_sport

Lesnar meets CM Punk and Mr Kennedy on SD in 2003

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8xmjt_lesnar-meets-cm-punk-and-mr-kennedy_sport

Dean Malenko Vs Taka Michinoku - Smackdown April 6th 2000

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7y8nk_dean-malenko-vs-taka-michinoku-smac_sport


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

So much stuff I'd love to see there Cal. :mark:

I've never seen WeeLC :lmao should I?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WeeLC is legitimately one of the most FUN matches of the past decade. I uploaded it for a reason .

Just downloaded all the 2008 WWE PPV's I don't own. Now to get the 09 ones I don't have and I'll be ready to finish off my 00's decade Rambles :mark:. Of course I still have like... 25 PPV's to watch for it :lmao.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

LilOlMe said:


> There was some random Tyson Kidd match that you were pimping, right, or am I imagining it? Maybe I just imagined the Yoshi part.
> 
> I think you said that it was the best of Kidd's career, and top 10 something or other.
> 
> ...


Closest thing I can think of is that I might've one day brought up Christian in 2009 having really good matches with Kidd and Yoshi. I mean I can't think of literally any other Kidd or Yoshi singles match I've ever seen that even really stood out other those. 



KENNY said:


> I'm sure Yeah1993 likes Yoshi.


I guess I do? I mean he's all right? I haven't really seen that much other then whenever he was on TV when I was barely paying attention.


How's that Benoit/Lashley?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Eh, not that great. Was likely asked to upload it by... uhhh... shit, what was his name? Does he still post here? The Benoit fan. Choked to Death? Yeah, probably him.

So hey guys, was just wondering, for absolutely no reason at all... but like, who do you lot think is better between:

Michelle McCool

and

Rob Conway?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

WeeLC? Everyone should watch that match if they havn't already. Put the 'match star ratings' out of the window and sit back and actually enjoy wrestling for a change with this one.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fairly certain I called it MOTN, even if it was on the pre-show.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Ok, I think that this is what I was referring to:


Yeah1993 said:


> Rey/Kidd is supposed to be fantastic and it's the one big Rey singles match in 2010 I've never seen. They get like 20 minutes or something. Goldust/Regal is short but ridiculously awesome. Might have to watch that next, screw it.


Apparently the Rey/Kidd match is a Superstars match? 3/25/10.

Also, there's a Yoshi/Kidd match from Superstars 1/20/11. Does anyone know if that's good? I feel like I've heard someone say that it is, but maybe I'm confusing it with the Mysterio match.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Rob Conway.



LilOlMe said:


> Ok, I think that this is what I was referring to:
> 
> Apparently the Rey/Kidd match is a Superstars match? 3/25/10.
> 
> Also, there's a Yoshi/Kidd match from Superstars 1/20/11. Does anyone know if that's good? I feel like I've heard someone say that it is, but maybe I'm confusing it with the Mysterio match.


I enjoyed the matches Yoshi/Kidd had.

I'm in the mood to watch some Chris Masters matches from Superstars, or RAW, anyone have any uploads?


----------



## NatP (Aug 9, 2011)

Big Cal's World said:


> Speaking of uploads, just updated my list of Dailymotion video links. Majority of these are set to private so they won't appear on my channel:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for this! I decided to check out the Ziggler/Sheamus match from Main Event because I'd never seen it before and wow, what a match! Great stuff, especially for Main Event. I hope they get a proper match at a PPV soon (preferably without a dumb gimmick).


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Big Cal's World said:


> Speaking of uploads, just updated my list of Dailymotion video links. Majority of these are set to private so they won't appear on my channel:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Seriously excited about a bunch of these. Thanks for the links!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Sgt. Slaughter vs The Iron Sheik (06.16.1984) (MSG) (Boot Camp)*

x2pysxm

Didn't see this online and someone mentioned it not long ago.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So, what's everyone think to Unforgiven 2008? Gonna watch it next for my PPV Rambles cos I wanna see the SCRAMBLE matches again .

And while I'm hear... another CHEAP PLUG to my videos and shit, but it would be super awesome if everyone in here could participate in this http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wrestling-games/1675466-bcw-interactive-general-manager.html .


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

If that PPV isn't horrendous I'd be shocked. ECW scramble sounds like it may be fun, but the other two don't look promising; the tag match seems bad; Divas may have McCool but I don't recall Maryse setting the world on fire. HBK/Jericho is their worst match together, and one of the worst matches I've seen from WWE.


@Brock, I uploaded that when someone asked for it, ya goof. You're missing a minute or so, for some reason.


EDIT: I never actually posted it here, yet three people have somehow seen it (it's a private link). The hell?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Someone obviously sent the link to a couple of other people .

Well, don't like the sound of those thoughts regarding UF lol. I remember liking the ECW and SD scramble matches, so I'll just be happy if I still enjoy them this time .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Must have missed that Rah lol. 

Didn't think anything was missing from my upload tbh, could be wrong though, or is it stuff after the match.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Might be random cuts at the start and at the end.







If it means anything to anyone, the Veneno/Ric Flair match has been uploaded/found.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho - Unsanctioned Match - Unforgiven 2008 is one of the worst WWE matches ever? :done

I liked that PPV, the scrambles were funny.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, looks like from the start before they come to the ring, so no actual in ring action is missing.

That Flair/Veneno match is another holy grail to many, i did hear that a recent doc aired some footage, didn't think it would be the full match. Ace. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WeeLC sucks. It's not even fun for watching midgets do shit. Well, the commentary thing is funny. That's all I got. Just google Mascarita Sagrada and don't put up w/trash.

-----------

Cal Unforgiven 2008 is...uhh...bleh. Basically it's The Brian Kendrick show. Don't remember the opener being poor. Not quite as strong as it should have been w/the folk involved. It's p. much the best of the four "Scramble" matches the company would produce. I'm not even gonna touch mentioning Michaels vs Jericho. Good lord. 25 minutes of Shawn throwing punches. You figure that crap out. You'll probably enjoy Undertaker's segment starting the program w/Show the most.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I enjoyed WeeLC. :lmao

Unforgiven 2008 was garbage from memory.


----------



## Paul Rudd (Oct 23, 2010)

I always remember Unforgiven '08 positively, just because of the spotlight Brian Kendrick got; the guy looked like a total star in his match. He hits an epic running calf kick of of nowhere and it makes me pop every time :banderas


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Unforgiven 2008*

SCRAMBLE MATCHES!!! I really liked the concept back in the day, so I'm hoping I still do on a re-watch all these years later .


*Matt Hardy Vs The Miz Vs Chavo Guerrero Jr Vs Mark Henry Vs Finlay - ECW Championship Scramble Match*

5 guys in the match, 2 start off, every 5 minutes someone else enters. 20 minute time limit. Kinda like capture the flag in that whoever has the "ECW title" at the end is the winner and champion. None of the wins here count as title wins unless someone new ends up with the belt at the end. Understand? Good .

HENRY is the champion, and luckily for him he isn't one of the 2 men starting off the match... but unlucky for me cos I wanna see Henry murder people for 20 minutes . Instead we're stuck with the Jiz. Matt Hardy too though . 

These two go back and forth, and meh, Jiz just doesn't make me interested in anything that's happening. He hits his finisher, and Hardy rolls to the floor and Jiz just screams "noooooo" like a baby.

Oh god Chabo is out next. He shows up, hits a Frog Splash on Hardy and is the "current champion" :lmao. Remember when they did this type of match for the Hardcore championship, and every reign ACTUALLY COUNTED? :lmao

SIDE EFFECT~! HARDY PINS CHABO~! HE'S THE CURRENT CHAMPION SORT OF KIND OF NOT REALLY BUT COULD BE IF HE DOESN'T GET PINNED ANY TIME SOON. DOES HE HAVE TO BE PINNED? I DON'T THINK HE DOES, RIGHT? RIGHT.

Fuck yes, FINALLY. Henry is coming to fuck shit up :mark:. Everyone in the ring decides to stick together to take out Henry. Because if they don't, he'll KILL EM.

Lol, Henry KILLS EM anyway .

Before HALL OF PAIN Henry, there was ECW HENRY. And it was just as fucking awesome. WORLD'S STRONGEST SLAM TO CHABO~! HENRY "REGAINS" HIS TITLE FOR THE TIME BEING!!!

Ahhh, is there any sweeter sound in the world than Chabo screaming in pain while Henry has him in a bear hug? 

FINLAY :mark:. FINLAY AND HENRY BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF EACH OTHER :mark:.

HENRY CHASING A MIDGET :mark:. Second only to Undertaker's dealings with Hornsoggle :lmao.

FINLAY PINS HARDY TO BECOME THE "CURRENT" CHAMPION!!! 3 and a half minutes left!!!

HARDY PINS JIZ~!

3 minutes left, and HENRY is back into the match looking to take his championship back! Boy, I would not want to be one of the other guys in the match!!!

The last minute and a half really does live up to the SCRAMBLE name as everyone is moving around hitting finishers and breaking up pins as they all desperately try to either win the belt or retain it :mark:.

The time runs out and MATT HARDY wins the ECW Championship!!! :mark:

Well, I'm a little disappointed in this tbh. I remember liking it a lot more, but the match was kinda dull before Henry and Finlay showed up. That's what happens when you have JIZ AND CHABO in the match longer than talented wrestlers . But once Finlay and Henry showed up, it got FUN AS FUCK.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Cryme Tyme Vs Cody Rhodes & Ted DiBiase - World Tag Team Championship Match*

Hmmm... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Shawn Michaels Vs Chris Jericho - Non Sanctioned Match*

Jericho socked Shawn's wife RIGHT IN THE KISSER. So this match is happening. But not really because it ISN'T SANCTIONED. 

Oh boy. I don't think I'm ready for this. Their entire 08 series tends to get a LOT of love, but I've never liked the majority of it. This match included.

Well this starts off fun, so that's good at least . Shawn is full of HATE~! and beats the shit out of Jericho with his boot and while on the outside at one point, absolutely DECKS Jericho in the face in what is probably the single greatest punch HBK has ever thrown.

Oh boy, it's already started to go downhill :lmao. Right, so these two men HATE each other. I like HBK using his boot as a weapon. HBK going for a chair is good too. But really, if you are out to murder someone, WHY WOULD YOU GO UNDER THE RING, GET A TABLE AND SET IT UP? That was Jericho that did that btw, not HBK. HBK hasn't gone retarded in this match... yet. There is still time .

Aaaaand the table doesn't even get used. So it's just sat there, waiting for later no doubt.

Urgh, they already did a TEASE GOING THROUGH THE TABLE spot. JUST PUNCH EACH OTHER IN THE FACE YOU FUCKS.

Wait, nevermind. HBK sucks at punching people in the face...

:mark: HBK choking the life out of Jericho... just to put him down for an elbow drop. FFS.

Then he goes for Sweet Chin Music and... decides not to connect. WHY? The commentators say it's because it's not "good enough" to end this thing and that Shawn isn't done. HE DIDN'T HAVE TO FUCKING PIN HIM AFTERWARDS. Fuck me, what a god damn moron. SEE, I KNEW HBK WOULD GO ALL RETARDED.

CROSSFACE~!

:lmao HBK just went eye fist into the steel chair. REMEMBER THE EYE, KING! Fairly certain Lawler is familiar with injured eyes .

Non sanctioned match and Jericho is letting the referee stop him from ripping out Shawn's eye. The referee should literally be there to ring the bell and nothing more.

Oh, NOW Jericho decides to tell the referee to fuck off... not when he's ripping Shawn's eye out, but when he's using the Walls of Jericho.

Lance Cade shows up. Why on earth didn't he show up at the START of the match? IT'S NON FUCKING SANCTIONED YOU TITS.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING THAT FOR?!?! :lmao come on ref, isn't it obvious?

Well, the table finally gets used. Yawn. Cade takes on hell of a shot to the head with Sweet Chin Music though. Looked like it might have actually connected.

Finally some more HATE~! with HBK repeatedly smashing the chair down on Jericho. Aaaaand then he decides to do another table spot. GOD. DAMN. IT.

Oh fuck me it gets even more stupid. Shawn sets up LANCE on the table instead of Jericho. Until he sees Jericho moving around and remembers that he hates JERICHO and not so much Cade.

Elbow through the table and... HBK starts crying? Ok...

BELT WHIPPING~! That might have been nice nearer the beginning of the match... but when a few minutes earlier he was essentially whipping Jericho with a STEEL CHAIR... it just doesn't have the same kind of impact tbh. This match is arse backwards.

The referee rings the bell because... Shawn is punching Jericho in the head too much. HBK wins. Ummm... what?

This match had potential. Really, it did. They DID do some good shit. But they nulified EVERYTHING good by doing double the amount of stupid shit. Seriously, how hard is it to have a HATE~! filled brawl? 

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Jeff Hardy Vs Shelton Benjamin Vs The Brian Kendrick Vs MVP Vs Triple H - WWE Championship Scramble Match*

Yey another scramble!!!

:lmao at the deafening silence for Shelton's entrance :lmao.

CORNER POWERBOMB :mark:. Love that move. Glad Rollins uses it these days cos it wasn't getting done like... at all for a while.

:lmao a double clothesline, but Hardy seems to ignore the fact he got hit too :lmao.

Woo, things about to pick up because THE Brian Kendrick is in da house!!!

Kendrick got SWAG. Wish him and Big Zeke were together for longer and did more. Was like a mini version of HBK & Diesel lol.

Twist of Fate and Hardy is the "current" champion. Booooo.

Kendrick lays around in the floor for a while and lets Shelton and Hardy go at it, and they do some fun stuff, especially the HUGE Pay Dirt from Shelton.

OMG KENDRICK IS BACK. SLICED BREAD #2. BRIAN KENDRICK IS THE CURRENT WWE CHAMPION!!! THE BRIAN KENDRICK!!! YES! YES! YES! YES!

MVP is next out and urgh. Just urgh. Fuck off MVP. 

:mark: THE Brian Kendrick makes me love him even more when he blindsides MVP with a leg lariat to the fucking FACE while MVP is running for a Drive By kick :mark:.

Kendrick is on FIRE here, and the fans are really behind him at times too. He's the champ atm and he's doing everything in his power to make sure nobody else sneaks in a pin :mark:.

HHH is out last, and he has 5 minutes to win back his title from THE Brian Kendrick .

*sigh* in less than a minute, HHH takes everyone out and pins Kendrick. Way to go, Hunter...

TWIST OF FATE TO MVP~! And Hardy is once again the current champ. Booooo.

:lmao at the botched counter to Sliced Bread #2. Well done guys.

Oh ffs. HHH pins Kendrick AGAIN.

Then Hardy pins Kendrick while HHH is resting in the corner thinking he's got this won :lmao. Not so much "Booooo" for that because it was hilarious.

15 second left... and HHH pins MVP. Hardy was inches away from HHH. Why didn't he break it up? BECAUSE HE WAS TRYING TO PIN BENJAMIN. EVEN THOUGH HE WAS THE CHAMPION ALREADY. Fucking moron.

Well, this was better than I remembered it. More fun stuff from a SCRAMBLE match. No classics from the stipulation, but certainly fun!

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


Hey look, its CM Punk!!! He's the WHC. Got a scramble match later in the night. Or not. He gets mauled by Legacy and his title is forfeited for no reason and he waits like 5 years to get revenge...


*Maryse Vs Michelle McCool - WWE Divas Championship Match*

I'll pass.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


MIKE ADAMLE~! Announces that Punk likely won't be in the main event tonight, but the match is still gonna happen even without him!

THE BIG SHOW~! He's pissed at Vickie. THE UNDERTAKER :mark:. He's pissed at Vickie too. BIG SHOW TURNS ON THE UNDERTAKER OMG I TOTALLY NEVER SAW THAT COMING WHATSOEVER THIS IS SO SHOCKING. Yeah, predictable, but an awesome segment and gave us one hell of a feud between the two :mark:.


*Batista Vs JBL Vs Kane Vs Rey Mysterio Vs Chris Jericho - World Heavyweight Championship Scramble Match*

:mark: JBL and Batista just beat the shit out of each other for 5 minutes :mark:. Then KANE shows up to join them!!!

Nothing fancy here, but it's a ton of fun as 3 large men try to destroy each other. If you're into that sort of thing then you'll love this!

KANE IS THE CURRENT WHC!!!

MYSTERIO TIME!!!

He runs into the ring with some stupid Mohawk mask and Kane immediately punches him in the face. STOP LOOKING STUPID.

:lmao so fun to watch Mysterio run around and doing flips, only to run into Kane and get knocked the fuck down .

Batista and Rey work together a little until Rey tries to sneak a pin on him. YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO BE MY FRIEND!!! Oh wait... that isn't for another year... nevermind.

Down to the final 5 minutes, and is CM Punk gonna show up? Nope. He's dead or something. Instead we get... Jericho? :lmao

Jericho? :lmao

He can barely walk after his "match", and he LOST it too. So why the FUCK is HE the replacement? :lmao

Wow, just realised that KANE is not only still the champion, but he's the only guy with a pin so far!

FUCK ME. Batista killed Rey. KILLED HIM DEAD.

Why is KANE going for a pin? Why is the referee counting? Why is Bastista wasting energy kicking out? KANE IS ALREADY THE CHAMP.

SPINEBUSTER~! Batista is the current WHC with 30 seconds left!!!

Batista Bomb to Rey... and while he's doing that, Jericho pins Kane and the clock is at 0! Jericho is the WHC :lmao.

Well this was better than I was expecting . ECW match is probably the best scramble of the night, but all 3 are super fun and the same rating too!

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 4*​


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cal is the only person to like that Taker/Show segment.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

You NO the divas match? But I've decided to draft McCool over Rob Conway. Bah. 
Still never seen a scramble match. Thing with Jericho in the main event sound silly and awful.



> The referee rings the bell because... Shawn is punching Jericho in the head too much. HBK wins. Ummm... what?


Daaaang I forgot about that. "Unsanctioned" my brown nut sack.

---
Cal did you ever upload the Feb 2000 Raw 10 man?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don;t think I did, but Zep probably has at some point.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I think I might be the ONLY regular member of this illustrious thread who enjoys the Unsanctioned match. I was 100% in the "Michaels and Jericho feud from 2008 is one of the most overrated piles of "meh" in recent memory" for a good while. Then Jericho's new book came out, and being the voracious consumer of all wrestler bios that I am I had to read it. After reading it I decided to just try and give the feud another chance, without any pre existing bias.

I thought the Judgement Day match was really, really good, in that **** or so area. Great American Bash was far and away the best match of the feud, absolutely awesome and one of the only times I've found myself saying "Damn this is a good Jericho heel performance". Watched the Summerslam segment which certainly was some sick shit but also added a huge amount of hate to the feud. Then came the Unforgiven match. I was certain I was going to still hate it, I really was. But, alas, I'm not going to lie, it worked for me. I never expected Jericho and Michaels to have a real war like Duggan/Sawyer or Slaughter/Shiek. If you go in expecting a match of that caliber and intensity, you're definitely gonna be dissapointed. But I took it for what it was, a match that called for an all out brawl/bloodbath under the recently instated PG guidelines. Take the table out of the match and it was great, and even without the table I thought it was still really, really good. Michaels character work was actually enjoyable to me, so often I cringe and hate what he would do during his second run, but for whatever reason I dug it here.

The No Mercy ladder match is still one of the single most overrated matches by the General public to me. I don't get it, I just don't. Jericho even says numerous times he thinks that's the best match of his career. Like, how? It wasn't even your best ladder match, it wasn't even your best match in 2008, and you had a match superior to me in every conceivable way about 6 months later against Rey at the Bash. Oh well, he's the wrestler I'm just the fan but I'd love for him to explain to me how that match is even good, let alone great.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal liking the World Championship scramble match. NOW I'm making fun of your opinion, btw. 8*D


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

As long as I'm here, then nobody will be alone in liking any of the Jericho/Michaels matches. Perhaps I should rewatch the No Mercy ladder match because I once had it at five stars, but I've matured since then. Hopefully my blind fanhood for all things Jericho will keep it at five stars 8*D


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

First time watching Smackdown in forever. This Ambrose vs. Sheamus match... these guys always deliver. Damn. Hard hitting, scrappy brawl. Love it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

God what a crushing night for DC sports fans... :crying::crying::crying:

SO FUCKING SICK OF EVERYONE CHOKING IN THE PLAYOFFS

Thoughts on WWE running two Elimination Chambers for the Tag Team & IC Titles? I'm fine with the IC Title one (could be Sheamus vs. Ziggler vs. Ambrose vs Barrett vs. Stardust vs. Neville), but how the hell do you pull off a Tag Team Title Elimination Chamber??? And who would be in it? Cesaro/Kidd, New Day, and Harper & Rowan? Or do you have 6 teams? So you throw in Lucha Dragons, Matadores, and... PTP? Just weird.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I dunno but if Harper could actually kill people in a match like that I would pro it. But these matches are normally tripe, so eh to it coming back randomly to happen in a week's time.

Now they're for even LESS in the grand scheme of things, too. Well, at least Payback isn't riddled w/the gimmicks. Just that same one that is whored out.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

hey fam

i havent slept in 2 days, bordering on three...i need a playlist/continuous match list/PPV whatever just to relax and enjoy

i'm too out of it, but cant sleep

side note one of my favourite moments ever...THE OLD STONE COLD comes back before Invasion 2001. That and JR's epic fucking commentary. I miss Jim Ross man.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HE'S STRIKING ANYTHING THAT BY GOD MOVES~!

That is one hell of a fucking moment. Even as a non Austin fan at the time, I marked the fuck out for that. Love it.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I decided to watch Spring Stampede 1994. I haven't watched it before, and just took a quick look at the card


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Cal's World said:


> Don;t think I did, but Zep probably has at some point.


*Triple H, X-Pac, Dean Malenko, Chris Benoit & Perry Saturn vs Cactus Jack, The Rock, 2 Cool & Rikishi - Raw 07.02.2000*

x1qmjkd

As a matter of fact.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Barrett/Neville/Sheamus/Ziggler/Stardust/R Truth

Cesaro Kidd/New Day/PTP/Mega Jobbers/Lucha Dragons/Harper Rowan

That's my guesses for the chamber matches, IC one would surely be amazing and the tag one could go either way.


----------



## Shaun_27 (Apr 12, 2011)

Ive just ordered Y2J & HBK new books and stumbled across "WWE: The Attitude Era", i have never even heard of this book - has anyone here picked it up and if so, firstly what is it, and secondly would you recommend?


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

Ryan193 said:


> Barrett/Neville/Sheamus/Ziggler/Stardust/R Truth
> 
> Cesaro Kidd/New Day/PTP/Mega Jobbers/Lucha Dragons/Harper Rowan
> 
> That's my guesses for the chamber matches, IC one would surely be amazing and the tag one could go either way.


Twelve guys in a chamber? :vince4


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Fighter Daron said:


> Twelve guys in a chamber? :vince4


According to the sheets they're undecided if it'll be 3 or 6 teams, I think 6 since they've reunited Harper/Rowan and put Axel and Sandow together.

Hope so, it would be something different and would be absolute chaos.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*The Great American Bash 2008*

JBL is poopy.


*John Morrison & The Miz Vs Curt Hawkins & Zack Rider Vs Jesse & Festus Vs Finlay & Hornswoggle - WWE Tag Team Championship Match*

Seriously? Finlay teaming with the midget? He'd have been better going into this alone...

:lmao FESTUS VS HORNSWOGGLE stare down at the start. Bah, Hornswoggle just dives on Jiz and Morrison and we don't get the epic showdown .

Ah well, Festus beating the shit out of Jiz. That's fun .

Lol, Finlay tags himself in via Festus and gets booted in the fucking FACE :lmao. 

:lmao Foley is just ripping Jiz to shreds on commentary :lmao.

I watched Foley's live show thingy on the Dub Dub Eee Network a couple of weeks back. Was kinda shitty outside of JIZ JOKES. No, not actual Jiz, but Miz as Jiz.

:lmao oh man, Finlay takes down Jiz and starts punching him in the face and Foley starts marking the fuck out :lmao.

Finlay fucking ROCKS here. He literally is wrestling the match as a handicap match, and so far he's been dominated by Jix and Morrison and now Hawkins and Ryder, but he just keeps firing back with shots to the face and even gets a couple of big moves in too! He's just a scrappy Irish Bastard who won't give up!!!

HOT TAG TO HORNSWOGGLE~! And then Jesse tags himself in and gets booed to fuck :lmao.

:lmao Hawkins takes a cheap shot and punches Hornswoggle off the apron :lmao. 

FESTUS HOT TAG :mark:. He's owning EVERYONE :mark:. Clears the ring, tags in Jesse for a big top rope move, but Festus ends up being pulled under the ring and Jess knocked off the ropes, and Hawkins & Ryder end up becoming the new tag team champions!!!

All right, good start to the show! Fun match, with a great FIP from Finlay, and some awesome FIRE from Festus, and fun moments with Hornswoggle. Mainly him getting punched in the face :lmao.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Matt Hardy Vs Shelton Benjamin - United States Championship Match*

Hmmm... this actually could be good. Hardy rocks, and Shelton has been capable of great matches here and there.

:mark: fans are fucking SUPER into this. A nice lengthy "let's go Hardy, let's go Shelton" chant :mark:. Shelton is doing rather good at being a vicious cunt early on too. That probably helps the fans get behind Hardy as much as they are atm.

Shelton tries to work over Hardy's back, but Hardy is still able to make a big comeback until he gets caught flying off the top rope right into a fucking CORNER POWERBOMB :mark:.

Nice job by Shelton to continue to go after the back every time Hardy gains a little momentum.

:mark: Moonsault from Hardy but Shelton puts his knee up and Hardy goes EYE FIRST into the knee :mark:. PAY DIRT~! NEW US CHAMP!!!

Good mid-card title match... though the back work did end up being useless as it took a knee to the eye and Pay Dirt to end it .

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Mark Henry Vs Tommy Dreamer - ECW Championship Match*

IT'S HENRY TIME!!! :mark:

LOL Colin Delany. Remember him? Hopefully you don't .

HENRY TRASH TALKING FOR THE MOMENT THE BELL RINGS :mark:.

Henry is murdering Dreamer and the fans are chanting boring. They all deserve to be SHOT IN THE BALLS OR VAGINA.

:lmao Colin turns on Dreamer :lmao.

I enjoyed this a ton tbh. It was Henry just throwing Dreamer around and making him look like a weak, pathetic nobody :mark:. Turn at the end wasn't needed because Henry was never in any real trouble lol.

:mark: Henry just STANDING on Dreamer and walking over him after he's won is awesome. God, Henry is so fucking great.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Shawn Michaels Vs Chris Jericho*

Hmmm... hmmmmm hmmmm hmmmmm...

Honestly don't remember the last time I saw this. Might have been the one time back in 08 when it happened. Either way, I don't remember much outside of blood. Depending on who I talk to, I get a different opinion on this one. Either it's fantastic with great story telling, or it's utter shite with crappy story telling :lmao.

Shawn VERY SLOWLY tries to beat up Jericho. And by slowly I mean he spends like 30 seconds in between each punch :|.

Springboard dropkick and Shawn is out of this match it seems. He has bad ribs from... I don't remember, and his eye is fucked too.

Oh look, a shitty submission hold by Jericho. How... pointless. What is Jericho's purpose in this match?

Now Jericho is doing the "punch, wait 30 seconds, punch again" bit. Thing is, both men are throwing some good shots in this match... but doing it so damn slowly that it ends up looking like shit.

Fuck me, both guys just look so.... uncoordinated here. They've shown on occasion that they DO have good chemistry, but at the same time they just don't click in a lot of their matches too. This is one of those matches.

:lmao Lance Cade shows up and immediately gets dropped. HBK does a super moonsault from the top rope to the floor and... ends up going in between both Cade and Jericho :lmao. Nice catch, guys. I thought HBK was the one with the injured eye in this match? 8*D

HBK is bleeding and not even the commentators know how/when it happened :lmao.

:lmao Jericho sees the blood and his reaction is so... CAMP .

A WILD ELBOW APPEARED~! Turns out that's how HBK got busted open.

The referee keeps checking on Shawn, while Jericho and Cade work over the bad eye.

This continues for waaaay too long. Shawn tells the referee not to end the match. Jericho kicks him in the face a few more times... rinse and repeat.

Eventually the referee decides to stop the match. Yawn. I stopped caring by then.

Match is a mess.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Edge shows off the worst acting ever during an interview. And yet, he's now an actor. He's on some show my mum watches. Haven I think? Yeah that's it.


*Michelle McCool Vs Natalya - WWE Divas Championship Match*

Remember when Natalya was more chunky and had ginger hair? Me either :lmao. Didn't eveb recognise her lol.

So, this is to determine the FIRST EVER DIVAS CHAMPION.

SKIP~! :lmao.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*CM Punk Vs Batista - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

Actually wasn't that long ago I watched this match. Hadn't seen it since it aired, and I can't remember what we were discussing on the wrestling forum at the time, but I ended up being super interested in seeing this match lol.

Punk's title reign... poor guy. They just kinda threw the belt on him and hoped that somehow he'd do well without decent opponents, booking, and being completely overshadowed by the likes of the HBK/Jericho feud and anything involving Cena.

Batista just countered a school boy pin WITH HIS ARSE.

Punk often gets laughed at for his worked kicks, but damn, he throws some great ones early on here. Helps that Batista just LET'S HIM connect .

Some decent back work from Batista, while Punk keeps trying to stay in the match by using quick kicks and high flying moves to ground the bigger, stronger opponent.

Big probs to Batista here too for selling really well. He takes those kicks to the head nicely and sells exhaustion from them real well too. While he does technically dominate a lot of this match, he still ends up making Punk look great on a number of occasions.

CM PUNK WITH AN ARMBAR USING THE ROPES~! Maybe he should do MMA with submission skills like that 8*D.

SPINEBUSTER ON THE FLOOR~!

And... then Kane shows up and attacks everyone. Because stuff.

Shame the finish was what it was, because if it wasn't what it was and was something else instead, then it could have been a much better match overall .

Still, they did a great job before the finish.

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


*John Cena Vs JBL - Parking Lot Brawl*

*sigh* the build up to this match. JBL is Poopy. Spray painted on the limo.

JBL.

IS.

POOPY.

At least JBL tries to legitimately kill Cena for it :lmao.

I like how JBL shows up to this match IN HIS SUIT :lmao. And then of course Cena shows up in his wrestling attire because I don't think he owns any other clothes tbh.

Cena the cowardly superhero hides from JBL and tries to run HIM over. Way to turn the other cheek, John! What a good guy he is .

:lmao Cena electrocuting JBL's balls ala Kane and Shane from 2003 :lmao.

:lmao Cena is fucking intent on murdering JBL for real here. He just threw a gas bottle or something as hard as he could at the man! Luckily JBL moved and the only thing that got destroyed was a CAR .

:mark: JBL fighting back :mark:. Threw Cena into a car door and it came off the hinges :mark:.

I wish WWE did other superstar t-shirts in the same design as the Cena one he's wearing right now. It's that Retro NES style one, and would look awesome without Cena on it .

DDT ON THE TOP OF A CAR~!

Cena kicks out at 2 :lmao.

CENA'S HEAD THROUGH A WINDOW~!

And now for some reason, JBL has thrown Cena into the back of a car and shut the door. OMG HE'S GONNA SET HIM ON FIRE~! :mark:

:lmao at the limo driver backing the fuck away in the limo after JBL gets the gas can :lmao. He ain't staying around for that shit!!!

BAH GAWD MAN, DON'T DO IT. THERE'S A MAN INSIDE THAT CAR! HE HAS A FAMILY... OR NOT. WHATEVER.

THE CAR IS ON FIRE~! JOHN CENA IS BURNING ALIVE INSIDE THAT CA... awwww man, referee's show up with fire extinguishers .

CENA NO SELLS FIRE :lmao.

And now Cena locks JBL in a car... YEY FORKLIFT TRUCK RIDE~!

I like how Cena just kinda KNOWS how to operate a fork lift truck. At least when Bryan used it on Kane that one time the commentators kept telling us that Bryan used to work in a warehouse so it made sense at least .

In fact, come to think of it, a LOT of wrestlers can drive fork lift trucks. And monster trucks. And cement trucks. Anything really.

:mark: Cena tries to set JBL up for an F-U off the stage onto a car... and JBL counters by launching CENA off the stage and right through the windscreen!

HOLY SHIT JBL WINS!!!

Man oh man, this is INSANE. It's stupid, it's hilarious, and it's AWESOME AS FUCK. Had a blast with this one :lmao.

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


*Triple H Vs Edge - WWE Championship Match*

I'm confused... the build up video package thing seems to be making it out like we're getting Edge Vs Vickie after Edge kissed Alicia Fox before marrying Vickie :lmao. HHH is just the guy that showed the video :lmao.

Oh hey, Eve . I miss Eve. She was HOT. Had a couple of good matches too!

I remember absolutely NOTHING about this match, other than I'm guessing HHH retains the belt at the end lol. This is the first, and I still think the only singles PPV match between these two men, right? Don't recall them having many single matches at ALL, even on TV. Just a couple in 04/05 on Raw, and probably another sometime on SD around this time no doubt.

My god this is dull. They are just... going back and forth doing shit. Nothing interesting, no story... nothing. It's like watching a CPU Vs CPU match on a WWE game.

:lmao Alicia Fox shows up towards the end of the match to try and help Edge until Vickie shows up and decks her :mark:.

Vickie looks to deck Edge with the WWE title, but ends up in a cat fight with Alicia... and gets SPEARED by Edge :lmao.

Oh look, a Pedigree. HHH retains.

What a giant load of fuck all.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 12*​


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I can't imagine the disappointment in your heart once you realized that Undertaker wasn't on that PPV. It looked like a somewhat decent show, but man that main event was nonsense. No different to the kind of stuff we see from Orton and Rollins on PPV.

NXT was not bad. Two interesting divas feuds leading up to Unstoppable. Solomon Crowe somehow got a good match out of Baron Corbin. Rhyno kills people and it looks cool. :lmao at the editing of the Zayn/Owens segment. They tried to fit in the fact that Zayn's shoulder got hurt on RAW, even though the segment was taped months before. Made for a sloppy and hilarious sequence.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Why did you no the diva match out of interest?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I just don't care about diva matches tbh. Unless it features two I actually like going one on one then I tend to just skip em.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

My interest in the Takeover special next week is really low. I mean, I'm still gonna watch because I'm on vacation all this week and it's an NXT special after all, but the card really doesn't do much for me. I've seen Steen & Generico damn near kill each other like 5 times, so for them to wrestle just another singles match with no stipulation kinda sucks. If they work it like the last one then I definitely won't be a fan and who knows what Zayn's health is like. 

Tag Title match does nothing for me. Breeze vs. Balor should be a good match (maybe even MOTN honestly) but we all know Balor is winning. I'm a huge Breeze fan but the guy loses everything, doesn't he? If Itami was still involved, then I'd be more interested in the 3-way dynamic. Two women's matches is crazy to fathom for a WWE show but I'm sure they'll both at least be decent.

Is Rhino heel or something? I don't watch NXT on a weekly basis. Him vs. Corbin looks pretty terrible, honestly. :lol

Show needs more CROWE.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

The rating for the Cean/JBL match has me enraged. Never has a match pissed me off more than that match. I bought a ticket to that show. I was almost in the very last row in the corner. I was still in high school so I didn't exactly have a huge budget. Cena/JBL was fought in the "parking lot" and I couldn't see any screen from my seat.










That's about what my view was. I could see the ring fine but no screens and those TVs were off. Meaning I couldn't see ANY of the Cena/JBL match until they went onto the stage. None of it.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The only thing I'm confused about after reading Cal's review is Hardy/Benjamin. What the fuck was either guy doing back then to warrant such heavy dueling chants?

Also, I heard lots of great things about the opening tag years ago. Maybe I should give it a watch.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well Matt Hardy is awesome so no wonder he got those chants. Shelton? I dunno.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Did you see the incredible fans in the front row (one dressed as JBL IIRC) dancing with gang signs to Shelton's theme?


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Nice review, agree with most of it. HBK/Jericho was very dull, couldn't get invested in it. JBL/Cena was awesome, just a fun match with Cena losing clean which was a shock to me when I watched it back.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rah said:


> On the subject of old Benoit matches... has anyone seen Kawada/Benoit from Stampede in 1986?


A bit late, but i do have it:

*Chris Benoit vs Black Mephisto, Stampede, 1985 (JIP - Mephisto is Toshiaki Kawada. That's right, Benoit vs Kawada! In EX vq!)*


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

some match reviews

*Hardcore Title: Norman Smiley vs. Brian Knobbs, Mayhem 1999. *

Fun little match, with a HARDCORE WIGGLE. I'm a big fan of NORMAN SMILEY so that helps. 

** 1/2
*
King of Cable Finals: Sting vs. Vader, Starrcade 1992.*

:mark: what a match **** 1/2





*Cruiserweight Title: Billy Kidman vs. Juventud Guerrera vs. Rey Mysterio Jr, Starrcade 1998. *

Awesome opener to a not so good PPV. All three men go nuts out there. 

*** 1/2

about to watch two matches at random before liverpools match

cm punk vs batista (got the idea after seeing cals review

batista vs taker vs edge armageddon 2007


----------



## CZWRUBE (Nov 6, 2013)

StuckInHell4-Life said:


> First? Yes, go watch Meng vs Benoit people. Stay away from Taker though.


Any match with this two in it is for show a show to watch!!!


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

also watched JBL/Cena from the bash PPV cal just reviewed

JBL won..clean? :CENA


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

I just watched a bunch of matches. The quick ratings blitz:

Ric Flair vs. Lex Luger - WCW Championship, WrestleWar '90 (★★★★¼)

Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat - WCW Championship, Spring Stampede '94 (★★★★¼)

Brian Pillman vs. Alex Wright - Great American Bash '95 (★★★½)

Ric Flair vs. Eddie Guerrero - Nitro, 5/20/'96 (★★★¾-★★★★)

HHH vs. Shawn Michaels - WHC, Raw, 12/30/'03 (★★★★½)

Eddie Guerrero vs. John Bradshaw Layfield - WWE Championship, Judgment Day '04 (★★★★)

Batista vs. Eddie Guerrero - WHC, No Mercy '05 (★★★½)

Booker T vs. Chris Benoit - US title, No Way Out '06 (★★★¾)

Rated RKO vs. HHH & HBK - World Tag Titles, New Year's Revolution '07 (★★★★)

Chavo Guerrero vs. C.M. Punk - ECW Championshop, ECW on SyFy 3/4/'08 (★★★¾)

The Undertaker vs. the Big Show - Last Man Standing match, Cyber Sunday '08 (★★★¾-★★★★)

Edge vs. Dolph Ziggler - WHC, Royal Rumble '11 (★★★¾)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I've been meaning to finally watch the Luger/Flair matches tbh, I don't think I've seen a single one. 

Ill try and check them out when im off my Han binge.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Not sure how many they had, but I can definitely add my voice to the conventional wisdom that at least Starrcade '88 and WrestleWar '90 are must-see.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I think you missed a * from the JBL/Eddie JD 04 match rating :side:.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Put a real finish on it and I'd throw in an extra ¼*, but that's my final offer. :Shrug

Still great, though.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Thoughts on the Payback card? (yes folks, there is a PPV tomorrow and I'll be attending that shit!)

*Tag Team Championship 2 out of 3 Falls Match:* New Day (c) vs. Cesaro & Kidd - This should be the opener and get a good amount of time hopefully. I don't want this to be like the Usos vs. Harper & Rowan one from last year where all the action takes place in the 3rd fall either. No reason why New Day can't get a lengthy workover segment (can't believe I'm saying that) and be able to steal a fall or two to keep the heat on them. These two teams have shown great chemistry all year and hopefully it continues here. New Day to win before losing the belts at Elimination Chamber two weeks later.

Ryback vs. Bray Wyatt - I have virtually no interest in this feud because I don't even know why it's occurring and it won't elevate either one of these guys. An obvious dusty finish will lead to a rematch down the line. Meh.

Sheamus vs. Dolph Ziggler - Yes! I loved their match from Extreme Rules and this one will most likely be worked differently with Ziggler just wanting to beat the hell out of him. Seems a little silly to me that after all these two have been through that there's not a stipulation added, but it should still be good nonetheless. Sheamus gets his win back and goes into the EC match looking strong.

Neville vs. King Barrett - Yes again! Again, some kind of stipulation would've made sense here because this is their 3rd meeting, but they're 2-for-2 so far so there's no reason not be excited for the rubber match. Neville has been on absolute tear since coming to the main roster and since Barrett got the win at KOTR, I'm gonna go with Neville here. It's 50/50 though.

The Bella Twins vs. Naomi & Tamina - I'm fine with this match and the storyline they're running with right now, but it needs to speed up. Naomi has beaten these Bellas like 4 times now, so hopefully she'll just win again here so she can take the Divas Title in a couple weeks.

*United States Championship I Quit Match:* John Cena (c) vs. Rusev - Oh lord jesus. As soon as this was announced, I threw my hands up in disgust. This has virtually no chance of being good because Cena will never say those words and there's gonna be a Superman comeback. I don't even know what to predict. Lana throws in the towel? Says I Quit for him? The lights go out and Kevin Nash appears?

*WWE Championship Fatal 4-Way Match:* Seth Rollins (c) vs. Dean Ambrose vs. Randy Orton vs. Roman Reigns - :mark: :mark: :mark: I was honestly looking forward to this match just when it was a 3 way, but now that Ambrose was added it's gonna be fucking GREAT! I expect him to throw his body around and provide the majority of the excitement, there's gonna be a lot of RKOs outta nowhere, Kane's gonna get involved, all hell's gonna break loose, and Rollins is gonna sneak away with a victory. Ambrose is most likely to eat the pin to protect the other two. Should be a damn fun match though.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

New Day/Kidd Cesaro should be good, absolutely loved their ER match. Obviously Cesaro and Kidd are awesome and I'm loving New Day just now. Intrigued by the 2/3 falls stip, think New Day get the win here

Not the biggest fan of Ziggler or Sheamus but it's a midcard feud with a backstory which is something we don't see anywhere near enough of, expect Sheamus to get the win here

Barrett/Neville could be great, love both guys and they have chemistry, fancy Barrett to get the win here

Couldn't care less about the divas match, can see the Bellas winning since it's mostly heels I can see winning

Wyatt/The Ryback, think I'm the only person who thinks this could be good, feud's sucked but I feel they couldproduce something good

Cena/Rusev needs to end, love them both but their matches are actually getting worse IMO, my hope for this is it's a mindless spotfest because I enjoy those kind of matches and it's the only was I'll have any fun with it, Lana throws in the towel cementing her face turn

Cannot wait for the 4 way, anything with Ambrose in the main event gets a thumbs up from me, looking forward to the inevitable tease for a Shield reunion and hopefully triple powerbomb on Orton, Rollins is winning but I think Reigns takes the fall not Ambrose leading to Reigns turning on Ambrose for not having his back


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i have the network again

going to watch the PPV tomorrow


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

PPV on tonight, huh? I suppose I'll download it for free in the morning and skip through the entire thing and see the results of matches. Maybe watch the main event cos THE SHIELD are all in it.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I got it free for the rest of the month

i got a bit of time to spare, i need like 2-3 matches to watch off the network 

pick any at random from wwe or wcw, hell NWA before it was wcw


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Instead of that boring PPV that's on tonight, everyone should watch ARMAGEDDON 2006 instead . It's this week's PPV Ramble on my BLOG~! .


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

KENNY said:


> I got it free for the rest of the month
> 
> i got a bit of time to spare, i need like 2-3 matches to watch off the network
> 
> pick any at random from wwe or wcw, hell NWA before it was wcw


Edge vs. Rey Mysterio - Royal Rumble 2008
Chris Jericho vs. Eddie Guerrero - Fall Brawl 1996
Billy Kidman and Rey Mysterio vs. The World's Greatest Tag Team - Vengeance 2003


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Pillman/Johnny B Badd (WCW Fall Brawl 1995)

A match I always like.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Big Cal's World said:


> Instead of that boring PPV that's on tonight, everyone should watch ARMAGEDDON 2006 instead . It's this week's PPV Ramble on my BLOG~! .



Doesn't look too good, and I don't remember much from it. I actually remember Benoit/Chavo having a good match, and the best match was the tag team ladder match. I'm curious about Kennedy/Taker tho


Flux said:


> Edge vs. Rey Mysterio - Royal Rumble 2008
> Chris Jericho vs. Eddie Guerrero - Fall Brawl 1996
> Billy Kidman and Rey Mysterio vs. The World's Greatest Tag Team - Vengeance 2003


seen jericho/guerrero a lot recently and the kidman/mysterio/WGTT tag. cant rememeber seeing edge/mysterio tho


Brock said:


> Pillman/Johnny B Badd (WCW Fall Brawl 1995)
> 
> 
> A match I always like.


Interesting, haven't seen it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

KENNY said:


> Doesn't look too good, and I don't remember much from it. I actually remember Benoit/Chavo having a good match, and the best match was the tag team ladder match. I'm curious about Kennedy/Taker tho


Well, go watch the ladder match again at least . It's better than anything anyone else has recommended to you, and it'll be a thousands times better than anything on the PPV tonight .

Or just go through my list of DM links I posted a couple of days ago and watch as much as possible from that . Tons of awesome shizzle .


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

so much shizzle to watch

these im very curious about on your list

Finlay Vs The Undertaker - Smackdown 09.03.2007

Arn Anderson Vs Steven Regal - WCW Superbrawl 20.02.1994 

Dean Malenko Vs Taka Michinoku - Smackdown April 6th 2000

Ricky Steamboat Vs Steven Regal No DQ - WCW Main Event 8.8.93

all of the eddie/tajiri vs WGTT tags


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Have you seen the BATB 97 opener? One of the best "surprise, this is awesome" matches ever.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

no i haven't, but will soon.

i'm just about to put on halloween havon '89 on at the moment, it looked good on card.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lol Halloween Havoc had that hilarious Tommy Rich match where the crowd just shits on him constantly. Love the crowd that night. Even the children were smarks. And then they proceed to shit on the Dynamic Dudes in favor of the heel Freebirds :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I've gone back to watching WWF 2001. DDP just revealed himself as the 'stalker'.

As soon as he took his mask off i was reminded how bad of a burial and fuck up that deal was.

He should have been a damn face, he had the fucking Diamond Cutter for a start to play off.

I'm a week off KOTR atm too.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

so far so good

sheamus vs ziggler and cesaro/kidd vs new day were great

ryback promo on wyatt :lmao


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Fucking love these New Day vs. Cesaro/Kidd matches.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Hell, even Wyatt/Ryback was a good match. 

***


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I've had fun so far. Nothing spectacular, but Sheamus put up a nice individual performance in a solid match vs Ziggs again, and that 2/3 falls tag wasn't quite Usos/Harper and Rowan, but still imo. quite solid and for once nicely laid out instead of the quick 2 long 3rd fall formula we see so often. Had a chuckle at Ryback having Angle syndrome (forget what your opponent has worked on thus sidestepping the story just to get your shit in) and despite that senton to ryback's ribs being "the game changer" of the match, Ryback says fuck it and running powerbombs Bray and that splash :maury Fun card so far. IMO, all the right winners have won so far. Now let's see if Ryback and Cena can FINALLY have a good one. Puzzling to me when Cena was on his A game vs Umaga, and Rusev shares similarities.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

WrestlingOracle said:


> I've had fun so far. Nothing spectacular, but Sheamus put up a nice individual performance in a solid match vs Ziggs again, and that 2/3 falls tag wasn't quite Usos/Harper and Rowan, but still imo. quite solid and for once nicely laid out instead of the quick 2 long 3rd fall formula we see so often. Had a chuckle at Ryback having Angle syndrome (forget what your opponent has worked on thus sidestepping the story just to get your shit in) and despite that senton to ryback's ribs being "the game changer" of the match, Ryback says fuck it and running powerbombs Bray and that splash :maury Fun card so far. IMO, all the right winners have won so far. Now let's see if Ryback and Cena can FINALLY have a good one. Puzzling to me when Cena was on his A game vs Umaga, and Rusev shares similarities.


Rusev*

:CENA


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I hate I Quit matches. No flow whatsoever, and they're not even brutal like they should be in a PG environment.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I want to quit.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

So being unconscious can continue the match but a valet quitting for the superstar ends the match? K.

Horrible match.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

RatedR10 said:


> I hate I Quit matches. No flow whatsoever, and they're not even brutal like they should be in a PG environment.


That is the thing. This doesn't have the fire/isn't in the time/ or the build with the workers of Flair/Funk and can't have the violence of the followers. I mean goodness, you got the bloody Magnum TA/Blanchard i quit cage, Mick Foley handcuffed and smacked in the chair twelve times with some of the more brutal chair shots in big league wrestling we have seen unprotected that made Mick's children cry, Mick himself feel bad and his wife scared. You got bloodfests like JBL/Cena too etc. This was just a quite corny, family friendly I quit match when unless you have the build for it/workers, this match type just doesn't fly. 

As an aside, watch the Colon/Hansen series and that brutality with the hogtying and then watch this finish. Laughable that there couldn't even be a brief necktie.

An edited aside: 3 of the worst gimmick matches in recent memory for the E have all involved Cena with vs Wyatt ER, vs Kane ambulance match and now this goodness.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

RatedR10 said:


> So being unconscious can continue the match but a valet quitting for the superstar ends the match? K.
> 
> Horrible match.


Well she was translating him so she hardly quit for him - It will just further the heat between Rusev/Lana in the build for them splitting up. I just hope it DOESNT lead to another match, they need to get Rusev far away from Cena.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:CENA can be unconscious and continue.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

That New Day interview made up for that I Quit match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Just got home and watching the main event. The folks on Reddit and Twitter are saying that the undercard for the most part was good, but Cena/Rusev and the divas match were abominations. Not surprising, especially since the I Quit match is a terrible stipulation. How has the crowd been throughout the night?


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Beautiful Shield flashback/spot there with that brief reunion complete with afterwards Seth with the old hyped up shaking and then Seth being the dumbass trying to strike the band back up only to get beat up and double powerbombed.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Those Shield moments :mark:


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Great match.

from memory

Sheamus vs Ziggler - *** - *** 1/2
Tag titles - *** 3/4
ryback/wyatt - ** 3/4 - ***
cena/rusev - dont know what to rate it, the constant DO YOU WANNA QUIT was annoying, and rusev got essentially buried again, spots outside of the ring were nice though. ** 1/2 
divas match - didnt watch
neville vs barrett - shit match, the post match brawl was better than the actual match - * 
main event fatal four way - **** 1/4


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Mine off my head would be pretty similar to Kenny

Ziggs/Sheamus ***1/4
New Day/KC ***1/2
Ryback/Wyatt: eh ** ish
Cena/Rusev *
Barrett/Nevile it'd be generous to call that a match
Divas match: skipped
Four way: That was a very well done last half/stretch, and maybe it is the Shield spot/that stretch to the end that softens me up, but I just thought everything even the start was quite solid. I'd call it a great effort (though no more) ****


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Sheamus/Ziggler: ***1/4
Tag Titles: ***3/4
Ryback/Wyatt: **1/4
Cena/Rusev: *1/2
Barrett/Neville: *3/4
WWE World Title: ***3/4


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Back in the hotel, damn what an awesome show tonight. Sheamus/Ziggler was good and BLOODY, Tag Title match was hella fun and possibly better than Extreme Rules, Wyatt/Ryback was WAY better than it had any right to be (Ryback 5-star splash!), and that main event was so much fun. Place went absolutely NUTS at the Shield reunion. 

As far as Cena/Rusev goes, I already knew watching it that everyone would hate it (and I can understand why), but holy shit it had such an epic feel in the arena. An absolute fucking WAR, man. Finish was coming from a mile away but I still thought it was cool how Rusev shouted in Russian to Lana so no one really knows what he said. They had a couple botches but it was just so visually captivating to watch in person.

Cena/Rusev and the main event both had **** feel to it but I'm sure it was different on screen. It's incredible to hear the reactions for Reigns though. It's literally 50/50 with cheers and boos and it's a joy to witness.

Randy Orton, Kane, & Sheamus are incredible physical specimens. Guys look HUGE.

I've been singing (or humming I guess) Rollin's theme for the last hour. Awesome song!


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Back in the hotel, damn what an awesome show tonight. Sheamus/Ziggler was good and BLOODY, Tag Title match was hella fun and possibly better than Extreme Rules, Wyatt/Ryback was WAY better than it had any right to be (Ryback 5-star splash!), and that main event was so much fun. Place went absolutely NUTS at the Shield reunion.
> 
> As far as Cena/Rusev goes, I already knew watching it that everyone would hate it (and I can understand why), but holy shit it had such an epic feel in the arena. An absolute fucking WAR, man. Finish was coming from a mile away but I still thought it was cool how Rusev shouted in Russian to Lana so no one really knows what he said. They had a couple botches but it was just so visually captivating to watch in person.
> 
> ...


Main event had a great feel to it watching on screen but Cena/Rusev didn't until they went to the outside. The constant "do you wanna quit" was annoying as fuck too.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KENNY said:


> Main event had a great feel to it watching on screen but Cena/Rusev didn't until they went to the outside. The constant "do you wanna quit" was annoying as fuck too.


Yeah that got old pretty quickly (as we knew it would) but the longer it went the more I started really liking it. Rusev's facial expressions were GOLD throughout. Had me geekin hard. :lol

I'm kind of afraid to watch it again, honestly.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Sheamus/Ziggler: ***1/2
Tag Titles: ***3/4
Ryback/Wyatt: **1/2
Cena/Rusev: *
Barrett/Neville: **
WWE World Title: ***3/4

Pretty good show.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I didn't hate Rusev/Cena at all. Has Rusev won when he got Cena to pass out I would have been really satisfied with the match. The fact that they did that really annoyed me because the match should have been over there and then ref was adamant that you have to actually quit to lose but then Lana quit for Rusev. Yeah we saw that coming but the stuff with Cena passing out it so much worse. That being said, I enjoyed most of the match. Rusev looked like a monster and a real badass. I don't believe he quit in the ring and I was left with the impression that Cena could have killed him and he wasn't going to quit. 

Enjoyed the entire show really. People calling the divas match an abomination are exaggerating and pretty much everything else was at least OK and mostly it was all good.


----------



## cena542007 (Apr 1, 2007)

Payback 2015:
***1/2 - Dolph Ziggler vs. Sheamus
***3/4 - The New Day vs. Kidd & Cesaro
*** - Bray Wyatt vs. Ryback
**3/4 - John Cena vs. Rusev
*1/4 - Tamina/Naomi vs. The Bella Twins
** - King Barrett vs. Neville
***3/4 - Seth Rollins vs. Randy Orton vs. Roman Reigns vs. Dean Ambrose


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Remember when Austin beat Shamrock in an I Quit match after Shamrock was knocked out? What a hoot!


----------



## Vårmakos (Dec 19, 2006)

*Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues &amp; Bobby Eaton*

*mistake post


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Yeah that got old pretty quickly (as we knew it would) but the longer it went the more I started really liking it. Rusev's facial expressions were GOLD throughout. Had me geekin hard. :lol
> 
> I'm kind of afraid to watch it again, honestly.


There was one in particular that was hilarious :lmao people on here started to make memes straight away


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Rah said:


> Remember when Austin beat Shamrock in an I Quit match after Shamrock was knocked out? What a hoot!


Uh, remember probably the best match in WWE history? It was a submission/I Quit match between Austin and Bret Hart at WM 13. Same EXACT rules as an I Quit match, hell it was an I Quit match just with no microphone. What happens? Austin passes out in a pool of blood, never submits, loses the match, but becomes a hero in the process. Probably the most iconic finish to a wresrling match ever, yet WWE just totally ignored it with that finish. What a load of shit.

Every match in the history of wrestling where only a submission or saying " I Quit" is the only way to win, has ended if someone was rendered unconscious. The only one off the top of my head that I can think of that DIDNT was the Styles/Daniels 30 Min Ironman from AAO 2005 (excellent bout btw) and that one didn't end because the time limit expired before the ref could check AJ. Why oh why does WWE insist on insulting everyone's intelligence? Why? It's like they can't help themselves. If you are gonna go so far as to have Rusev render Cena unconscious, just let him win the damn match Jesus Christ.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

*Re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues &amp; Bobby Eaton*

Didn't count it, even if the gimmick is largely similar. Equally, that Flair/Foley match got "restarted" twice. First after Foley was knocked out and it was ratified he had to quit (fair enough, Payback is in continuity), then again when Melons quit for him; no one else could say it for you... oh, wait.

Edit: meant Melina. Oh, Samsung, you perv.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

*Re: Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - Tradition Continues &amp; Bobby Eaton*



Rah said:


> Didn't count it, even if the gimmick is largely similar. Equally, that Flair/Foley match got "restarted" twice. First after Foley was knocked out and it was ratified he had to quit (fair enough, Payback is in continuity), then again when Melons quit for him; no one else could say it for you... oh, wait.
> 
> Edit: meant Melina. Oh, Samsung, you perv.


I wouldn't say its similar, I'd say it's the exact same thing. The rules for both matches clearly state "you must submit/say 'I Quit'" yet they have always ended whenever someone was rendered unconscious. Why is it differnt now? Why even do an I Quit match if you arent going to allow it to become a violent, bloody, brawl? That's what the match calls for.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

*The main event* was fun, but could have done without the Kane and so much J & J stuff. With four people, there's enough storytelling there on its own. 

The interference was to such a comical level immediately, that I couldn't help but think that Kane's performance in the match was like a metaphor for much of what's wrong with the WWE. LITERALLY, old guy holding the WWE & its bright talents down. Ick.

It's just disgusting to me when a ready made storyline with four guys -- and enough going on therein -- takes a backseat to a Kane/Authority storyline that no one gives a shit about. I was more tolerant of it in the past, but this match could have and really should have shone on its own without that. 

Despite that, it got really good when that stuff died down.

My favorite thing about Reigns has always been his intensity, and that shone through last night especially.

The pedigree was hideously delivered, but it was funny to me. Especially because the ending had such a wtf feeling to it. Like, I so didn't see it ending easy peasy like that. I actually liked that.


*The tag team match* was loads of fun, and I liked Tyson's look when he came out.

Cesaro is always botching with Big E, so I'm gonna guess that Big E doesn't assist right. He's the only one I think I've seen Cesaro botch with. Or maybe he is just extra heavy. 


*Sheamus/Ziggler* delivered on what I was hoping for from ER. That was pitch perfect for what they were going for, though I wish they got a lot more time. Ziggler's performance made me forget about the stupid headband, and Sheamus was good as well. Good chemistry.

Wtf was going on in that *Neville match*? I take it that Neville was selling the knee, since it seems like no one on Earth is questioning it but me. It looked so legit, though, especially because they didn't make a storyline out of it. The way he kept reacting to the knee seemed instinctive to me, so I thought it was real. He did a really convincing job. What made me question it was that the ref never checked on him.

But why the knee injury? Just to sell the suspense of a count out situation? I don't see the point, because it was supposed to seem like Barrett was chickening out and being a dick anyway. 

Then, Barrett never even went after the knee. That's why I think it was real! If so, the ref is oblivious as hell.

Someone speak on this, please. lol.


I can see both sides of the *Cena/Rusev* thing, but it felt like it dragged on and on and on to me. I can see why people liked it, though, as there were aspects I really liked.

Rusev's facial expressions were indeed glorious. He was working his ass off the whole time, and carried the whole thing, IMO. It was one of HIS best performances, so I can see why people would be into it. 

If his opponent was booked properly too & really captured that epic tug sort of feel, I think I'd really like it. It just had too much of Cena's "dead fish" quality, which dragged it down for me. Plus, I guess Cena's history worked against him. You know, like when it started with Cena going down after running into the turnbuckles it was "oh, here we go." Just felt that a lot of it was the usual template, even if Rusev's performance & booking added a different feel to it...but you were already predisposed to be annoyed with it, based on the first half and Cena's history.




Jack Evans 187 said:


> As far as Cena/Rusev goes, I already knew watching it that everyone would hate it (and I can understand why), but holy shit it had such an epic feel in the arena. An absolute fucking WAR, man. Finish was coming from a mile away but I still thought it was cool how Rusev shouted in Russian to Lana so no one really knows what he said. They had a couple botches but it was just so visually captivating to watch in person.
> 
> Cena/Rusev and the main event both had **** feel to it but I'm sure it was different on screen. It's incredible to hear the reactions for Reigns though. It's literally 50/50 with cheers and boos and it's a joy to witness.
> 
> Randy Orton, Kane, & Sheamus are incredible physical specimens. Guys look HUGE.


James Caldwell who is a writer for PWTorch, gave it ****1/2. Surprised me, because from what I've seen, he's not a guy who's ever seemed way out of whack with popular opinion. Usually his ratings that I've seen are similar to what most people say about matches.

Here is what he wrote:


> WINNER: Cena at 27:58 to retain the U.S. Title. Epic, epic, epic battle that just kept building and building with two characters presented as super-athletes battling each other without giving in. That was a PPV-worthy war to blow off the feud. Well, presumably, since Cena was the one who stressed this as the final battle, but Rusev had a big "out" that he knocked out Cena and Lana gave up for him. Rusev is an absolute monster in the ring and could have an epic match with Brock Lesnar with the right creative back-story. (****1/2)


And yes, pretty much everyone who's met Orton comments on how he's a lot bigger than they expected. I guess he comes off thinner on tv. Sheamus is someone who I expected to seem a lot bigger. Not that he looked small, but to me he comes off really big on tv. Goldust is the one who most surprised me. Very tall.

ETA: Oh, and the *divas tag* was not an abomination. It was fine. It wasn't even bad. Nothing spectacular, but nothing that would be a turn off either. Actually thought that Nikki's hot tag was pretty good.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sheamus vs. Dolph Ziggler: ****1/2*
Uppercats vs. New Day: ****3/4*
Ryback vs. Bray Wyatt: ****1/4*
John Cena vs. Alexander Rusev: *Nonsense*
Usas vs. Bella Twins: No
Wade Barrett vs. Adrian Neville: ***1/2*
Seth Rollins vs. Roman Reigns vs. Dean Ambrose vs. Randy Orton: ****3/4*

Overall best PPV of the year. Balanced and had a surprisingly good crowd and momentum. If only that I Quit match didn't exist.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So now that I have time, here's a full live report from Payback last night:

- Anyone remember the hype video for the PPV? That was fuckin AWESOME.

- Preshow matches were pretty skippable, but I can't stress to you enough how vocal the crowd was before anything even happened. There were at least 3 New Day Sucks chants prior to 7:30. It got old. haha. Big standout for me on the preshow was Cody Rhodes. Man he looked great in his match with Truth. I remember him front suplexing him on top of the turnbuckle and that looked painful as hell, then he later did a double springboard disaster kick that was beautiful. Plus the slapping with glove. Man, great work from him in a short period of time. Even after the match he looked so depressed sitting outside the ring. #FreeCodyRhodes 

- The opener wasn't as good as I was hoping, but it looked hella physical. Like I said earlier, Sheamus is a big fuckin dude. Baltimore was 150% behind Ziggler and I feel like I was the only one rooting for the fella. Some guy yelled that he needed to brush his teeth. :lol Whole place went quiet in awe when Ziggler busted himself open. Thought it was really cool that he stayed on his knee to take the Brogue Kick though. Match probably floated at the *** mark but I've seen more positivity to it. Sheamus didn't seem like he did much on offense other than a headlock.

- The Tag Team Title match was incredible amounts of fun. It was fascinating to watch Cesaro & Kidd work as a team. One of them always seemed to be moving. Kidd was flying everywhere and Cesaro was throwin dudes around left and right. I'm not sure if the camera caught it but while Kidd had the sharpshooter locked in, Cesaro literally threw Big E over the announce table. It was crazy. Xavier was fun to watch on the outside too. Cesaro dropping Big E was hilarious. He just kept going like nothing happened.  Felt like an easy *** 1/2 in person.

- Ryback vs. Wyatt was my choice for surprise of the night. Crowd was probably 60/40 in favor of Wyatt. All the adult men were with Wyatt obviously.  You have to witness Wyatt's entrance in person though. They shut all the lights out around the place and still seems fully lit with all the cell phones. It's a sight to behold. Great presence from him and really strong work during their match. Him luring Ryback all the way to the outside when he hit that big clothesline was fuckin sweet. Ryback got a huge pop after that frog splash. Incredibly impressive. Loved the finish and really enjoyed the match. Felt like a ***+ encounter.

- There's a lot to say about Cena/Rusev, so bare with me. Everyone chanted We Want Lana no matter WHAT was happening. Someone was always saying it.  Being a part of a John Cena entrance is something special too. Such a crazy atmosphere. I took part in the 'John Cena Suuuuucks' chant and the little boy beside me wasn't a fan of that. :lol Rusev grabbing the mic and saying "half this crowd already hates you!" was hilarious and got a huge pop. Thought the match started off slow with Rusev in control and the CONSTANT 'do you wanna quit?' but man it became so enthralling the longer it went. Rusev's performance throughout the whole thing was godly. Constantly scolding Lana, yelling in Russian, kicking Cena's ass, or those hilarious facials he had throughout the match. The AA that Rusev took on the steel steps looked and sounded incredibly painful. I did notice Cena botch some things throughout the whole match and that sucked. He took Rusev's splashes in the corner really awkwardly and botched the fall away slam terribly. Once they went on the outside is when I thought it got really great. The typical barricade spot was predictable here but I think they wanted it to be. The stuff with the fireworks and the laptop were hilarious. They botched the alabama slam but made up for it quickly. Loved the spot with the guardrail. That looked nasty. Rusev turning back the clock to 2007 was a joy for me, even though I knew what was gonna happen from the minute it started. I thought both men did incredible selling jobs throughout the whole 28 minutes. It's a shame the ending was so predictable, but like I said, it was neat that no one really knows what they were saying between each other. Match had an absolutely epic feel in the arena and I really appreciated the work put forth by both guys. Had a ****+ feel for sure, but I'm afraid to watch it again. haha

- I was INCREDIBLY burnt out after the last match, so the next two hardly had my attention. Divas match was solid I guess. Tamina kicked the fuck out of Brie and I don't think she ever came in the match. Naomi had a lot of supporters in the audience. She's doing great right now. Surprised Nikki kicked out of the rear view.

- Neville vs. Barrett was just kinda there. It was short and ended just when it got going. Neville's entrance is cool as fuck. Postmatch stuff was neat. Sent us home happy.

- Oh man, the energy in that place for the main event was CRAZY. People were going nuts just watching the hype video! :lol Orton is in incredible shape. Ambrose is over. Reigns is mega over and/or mega hated. It's fun. Rollins envokes a reaction out of everyone. His theme is fucking awesome. Matches exactly who he is. The match started great, then tapered down quickly. Being in the arena really makes you notice how much laying down is actually done in these 4-ways. Orton was on the ground for at least half of the match.  The fucking roof blew off the place when they had the mini Shiedl reunion. I literally yelled 'WHAT!?' out loud because it was like they didn't even have to think about it. The Ambrose vs. Reigns portion was wonderful. The last half of the match in general just felt like a car crash of epic proportions. RKO after RKO, a run in here and an announce table there, etc. I didn't really buy into any of the nearfalls because I could see someone coming in to break it up, but it was still great fun. Color me shocked that ORton ate the pin again and that it was THAT easy to pull off. One pedigree did the trick and most people seemed surprised. I've seen a lot of *** 3/4 thrown around and that seems perfect.

- Overall, a seriously good night of wrestling. Crowd was hype all night and everything worked for me. I had a great time and really hope they come back for a PPV next year. (Y)


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Probably one of the few wrestling fans on the planet that didn't eat that up but meh. Hard to believe I hear people say he is better as a juggernaut/more presence than Brock. Even though I love me some physicality, never been a giant Steen fan as an overall package.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

He may not be a bigger juggernaut, but he sure is the superior wrestler.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Really enjoyed that Cena & Steen segment, but HOLY FUCK this crowd in Richmond has been god awful. They don't pop for anything! Why the hell did they chant 'We Want Lana' when Lana was standing in the ring next to Dolph? No one made a peep when Owens came out!


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I don't even watch NXT and I marked for Owens. 

He has presence.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Well hot damn, that was a great RAW. In one night, they set up not one, not two, not three, but FOUR matches that could main event a PPV. Elimination Chamber in one show already looks more attractive than any other PPV this year. And we still have some more room for action. Wonder what Roman and Randy are gonna do on that show among others.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

My goodness gracious, they're gonna have to go out of their way to fuck up Elimination Chamber. The card is already STACKED and Orton & Reigns weren't even on the show tonight!


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Kevin Owens left Cena fucking lying. I loved it. I can't believe his first match on the main roster is on PPV for the US Title. :mark: I can only hope that Owens goes over, somehow... someway. 

That final segment with the call-back to the cinderblocks... loved it. Ambrose vs. Rollins for the WWE World Title. I can't wait. Would WWE have the balls to throw a curveball and put the title on Ambrose and do Ambrose/Reigns at Summerslam and Rollins/Lesnar in a non-title match at SS?

The only complaint I have about the Elimination Chamber matches is that Los Matadores have a spot in the tag chamber instead of Harper and Rowan. Oh well... the EC event should be awesome.

EDIT: by the way, how fucking GREAT is Rusev? I've been on the Rusev train since his Swagger feud where he was really showing his stuff selling-wise, but he's just so good all around.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

WrestlingOracle said:


> Probably one of the few wrestling fans on the planet that didn't eat that up but meh. Hard to believe I hear people say he is better as a juggernaut/more presence than Brock. Even though I love me some physicality, never been a giant Steen fan as an overall package.


I like Owens, but I was kind of underwhelmed the first time I watched him (Zayn/Owens match) due to all of the hype and Brock Lesnar comparisons. People here were shitting on Samoa Joe and saying that Owens is the next face of the company, and were making him sound like a God on the mic and everything.

If you put all that hype aside, he's impressive, but he came out looking like a jobber tonight, IMO. It's a testament to his talent that he could erase that impression, but I could just see Vince taking a look at that entrance and being like "hell no." I could hear his thoughts in my head. :lol

It's funny, because on the basis of connectability and those great KO shirts, I thought he could be part of a real, new, hot, drawing movement in the WWE. Then I saw him come out and was like "ehhhh."

The match with Cena will be great, though, I think.

Also, I've got some of his older, non-NXT matches, so I'll tap into those soon.




RatedR10 said:


> The only complaint I have about the Elimination Chamber matches is that Los Matadores have a spot in the tag chamber instead of Harper and Rowan. Oh well... the EC event should be awesome.


Was so irritated that Los Matadores and PTP are gonna be into it. Thought Macho Mandow/Axel were gonna be in there for the fun element alone, and yeah, Harper/Rowan should be a no-brainer. I assumed that's why they even put them together again and made them look so dominant.

I think that Harper/Rowan are gonna take out Los Matadores and steal the EC spot on EC night. At least I hope so.

What the fuck is R-Truth doing in the IC Chamber?! Maybe Neville will "heal" and take his spot? 

Still wondering about if Neville was really injured. With the way the match went tonight, I figured he was just selling, but then someone made a thread saying this might be the way they're writing him out since he's really injured. I don't know.

Poor Cody. The way they're jobbing him out is just insulting.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

More than not being in EC, I'm genuinely shocked he's "Macho Mandow" and not "Macho Man Randy Sandow." 

Owen debut was pretty epic. I actually a notice a certain nervousness from him on the mic, but I attribute it to still being relatively new. Still, come out and live mic a debut is pretty incredible. He has the presence and physicality. I'm a huge Steen fan, and have thought that really the last three debuts were handled very well. 

Hard to see how things will turn out, but I was very satisfied in the moment. STOMP THE BELT W/MY CANADIAN LEATHER BOOTS!

Payback was fun. Haven't watched all of it yet - saw the back-half and the tag team match, but not Wyatt/Ryback or anything before it. 

The Cena/Rusev match was fine, quality performances from both guys. I wasn't on board with the unconscious bit. I mean, OK Cena's knocked out - now beat on him mercilessly until the ref forces you to stop. It was a little broadway for me. And I could have told you the finish like three or four weeks ago. 

The finish on the tag match was a little :StephenA2 :justsayin didn't really get the 2/3 falls stip or just generally why I can't have a well-founded basis for Cesaro and Big E to club it out for 15+ instead. Still was fun - Cesaro killing people after all.

I probably enjoyed the main most. The Shield reunion was the signature moment of the show, and proof all three guys can play a big role within the company moving forward. OMG, stars created that the WWE actually intended to build. I never really have a problem with the psychology w/multi-man matches. Guys takes breaks/rest on the outside - Duh. That's the smart play and left everyone else tire themselves out and pick your moment. I truthfully didn't need so much Kane, but a good match all-around. ***3/4 for that mother.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i dont watch nxt at all really but marked out for owens, he has presence

can a fan of his or someone whos seen his matches direct me to the best ones on the network? pls 






EPIC :mark:

i've devided to watch survivor series 2002 now...for the first time in years


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I would LOVE to see Harper & Rowan destroy the Matadores and take their spot in the Chamber. My only guess as to why they may not have put them in the there is because they're considering reuniting the Wyatt Family? I'm not sure but they scrapped the Wyatt/Ryback feud already and Orton & Reigns have nothing to do, so who knows.

IC Title match Chamber should be damn good. Love the amount of big dudes they put in there. Neville would've been a nice change of pace but he'll likely face Bo Dallas it seems. Truth is in there to take some punishment and I think all the rest of the 5 have a viable chance at winning except maybe Ryback. Sheamus or Ziggler seems likely. Rusev will probably be eliminated via rollup by Ziggler or something. 

Regarding Owens, I can't say I've been as big a fan of his NXT work as others. They build him as a prize fighter who destroys everyone, but it's kinda tough for me to take him seriously as a monster heel. I wish the pop up powerbomb wasn't his finisher because he used it so often in the indies and it DIDN'T beat people, but oh well. The match with Cena should be great and maybe the crowd in Corpus Christi will actually give KO a reaction (unlike that terrible Richmond crowd).

Rollins vs. Ambrose is really just the icing on the cake. At this point the card was already fantastic, so they could've just done Rollins & Kane vs. Ambrose & Reigns and I would've been A-okay with it. But a WWE Title match between the two!? At a thrown together PPV no one even knew was gonna happen until a week ago? Wow. Going all in with this one. Should be another great match in their series if the interference doesn't bog it down.

Looks like we'll probably a 3-way for the Divas Title too. Naomi vs. Nikki vs. Paige


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> IC Title match Chamber should be damn good. Love the amount of big dudes they put in there. Neville would've been a nice change of pace but he'll likely face Bo Dallas it seems. Truth is in there to take some punishment and I think all the rest of the 5 have a viable chance at winning except maybe Ryback. Sheamus or Ziggler seems likely. Rusev will probably be eliminated via rollup by Ziggler or something.


If he's not hurt, Neville seems like such an obvious choice for the IC EC match. It's made for him, flipping off the cage and stuff.

When Dallas/Barrett/Neville were all out there, I thought for sure all three would be added to it.

Then we randomly get Truth and Neville's not even in it. Wtf.

Such an obvious missed opportunity. 

lmao, Ziggler is so gonna roll Rusev up, you're right. He'll be distracted by Lana. Or if they don't go that route, a bunch of people will probably team together against Rusev.

If they're not using Harper/Rowan in the tag team EC, they damn sure better be uniting the Wyatt family.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

For the chamber, I think either Ryback or Sheamus is winning it, more likely Sheamus. Barrett is also a possibility since they love throwing the IC Title on him (and then start jobbing him out left and right). Ziggler and Rusev I don't think have a chance because of the feud they're starting, and Truth... lolTruth.

The Tag Title chamber is really unpredictable. Only team I can't see winning is Los Matadores. Take your pick on any of the others.

Ambrose/Rollins should be great but it's very predictable. Rollins' is obviously winning, he's not losing it on some random WWE Network Exclusive Event with Brock around the corner in a couple of months (actually he could and then just win it back at MITB, but I'd prefer he just win at EC as opposed to lose it only to win it back).

Cena/Owens, I've liked what I've seen of Owens. Hopefully it's a strong debut for him. If it's not for the US Title, he's probably winning this, which is huge for a debut on the main roster. If it is for the US Title, I could see it going either way.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Kevin Steen debuting on RAW was fucking amazing to me. I marked out way more than when Zayn showed up a couple weeks ago. A few things might be because I've thought Steen has deserved this for a longer time, and he also came off like the big bad mean dude that he should, he cut a good promo and in general looked like a monster despite him being shorter than Cena. Fuck, when he came out on the stage it was awesome enough but when he cut Cena off in the promo and gave him that powerpomb I got goosebumps, then the crowd started chanting 'Fight Owens Fight' and I lost it. The way he carries himself now is amazing, he felt like a huge presence walking out there and taking out Cena.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Man, maybe it's time for me to start actually watching Raw again. Ever since Bryan got injured the first time back in 2014 I've been not watching Raw/Smackdown live, only going back and watchinf certain matches and segments if read on here that something was extra special. I had been watching all the PPV's live but I couldn't even be bothered to watch FastLane, Extreme Rules, OR Payback live. I did watch Mania live though. I just can't be bothered to stay up and watch bullshit anymore. But it sounds like they might be turning the corner, Zayn debuted, Owens/Steen debuted, Neville debuted, Ambrose isn't a jobber, Cesaro/Kidd and the New Day are killing it, Rollins is still being misused but he's such a great talent it doesn't matter. That's a lot of check marks in the positive column, maybe I should stop being such a curmudgeon and just watch the show next week. I miss that exciting feeling of watching something awesome live, you can't get that feeling by going back and viewing it afterwards when someone already told you it was great.

What it the card shaping up to be at Elimination Chamber?


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> What it the card shaping up to be at Elimination Chamber?


EC for the IC title - Ziggler/Barrett/Rusev/Sheamus/Ryback/R-Truth

EC for the Tag Team Titles - Los Matadores/PTP/New Day/Cesaro&Kidd/Lucha Dragons/Ascension 

World Title - Seth Rollins vs. Dean Ambrose

Kevin Owens vs. John Cena [Don't know if it's for the US Title yet]

And they look to be building toward a Naomi vs. Nikki Bella vs. Paige triple threat for the divas title


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

LilOlMe said:


> EC for the IC title - Ziggler/Barrett/Rusev/Sheamus/Ryback/R-Truth
> 
> EC for the Tag Team Titles - Los Matadores/PTP/New Day/Cesaro&Kidd/Lucha Dragons/Ascension
> 
> ...



:lmao
:lmao

That is such a current WWE card. They are SO close to having a damn near perfect card but they do 1-2 small little things that will inevitably fuck it up. The first thing that jumped out was R-Truth being in the IC title chamber. I don't care what current story is going in that it makes sense for him to be involved, absolutely ZERO people want to see him in a chamber. I'd put Reigns in there, let him destroy some fools and get over before Sheamus does some underhanded shit to win. If they put Reigns in another match then use Sami Zayn or Adrian Neville,

For the tag chamber Harper/Rowan should be there instead of Los Matadores. That's such an easy fix.

Otherwise that looks like a really good card I can watch Ambrose and Rollins go 100 times and not get tired of it. Cena/Owens will be the real prize for me, I cant friggin wait to see that match.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Man, maybe it's time for me to start actually watching Raw again. Ever since Bryan got injured the first time back in 2014 I've been not watching Raw/Smackdown live, only going back and watchinf certain matches and segments if read on here that something was extra special. I had been watching all the PPV's live but I couldn't even be bothered to watch FastLane, Extreme Rules, OR Payback live. I did watch Mania live though. I just can't be bothered to stay up and watch bullshit anymore. But it sounds like they might be turning the corner, Zayn debuted, Owens/Steen debuted, Neville debuted, Ambrose isn't a jobber, Cesaro/Kidd and the New Day are killing it, Rollins is still being misused but he's such a great talent it doesn't matter. That's a lot of check marks in the positive column, maybe I should stop being such a curmudgeon and just watch the show next week. I miss that exciting feeling of watching something awesome live, you can't get that feeling by going back and viewing it afterwards when someone already told you it was great.
> 
> What it the card shaping up to be at Elimination Chamber?


I think Raw has risen its level of quality after Extreme Rules, so I think it's a good moment to comeback.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Truth isn't involved in any storyline going into the match. I don't really have a problem with him being in it either. Gotta have your jobber in there to take the first pin and make someone look good.  It was more surprising to me that Neville was left out AND they put Ryback in the match after he LOST to Wyatt at Payback. There's no logic in that at all. Oh well, still think the match is gonna be fuckin awesome. Sheamus/Rusev/Ryback interactions are gonna be nasty.

I'll be interested to see if the IC Title Chamber or Ambrose/Rollins actually main events the show. I think it could go either way.

Ya know who I really wish was doing SOMETHING right now though? Jack Swagger.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

On paper that is an amazing card, The Ascension are the one's I'd take out for Harper/Rowan though, can't stand them and Los Matadores will be able to do some cool spots inside the chamber.

Ambrose/Rollins main eventing for the WWE title, doesn't get any better than that for me. Obviously Rollins will be big favourite but whoever said they might put the belt on Ambrose and have his inevitable Summerslam match with Reigns be for the belt and Lesnar/Rollins non title I hate you for making me think Ambrose has a slight chance of becoming champion :lol

Steen/Cena will be awesome, not really much more to say on that

IC title match could be great, Truth's a strange inclusion but I dont mind him so I'm not bothered

Neville/Dallas I dont care about 

I thought Wyatt/Orton was a lock for Summerslam but I'm guessing they might do this here since neither of them have anything obvious to do


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> It was more surprising to me that Neville was left out AND they put Ryback in the match after he LOST to Wyatt at Payback.


I think they are going with Neville vs. Dallas to give Neville his first real win in a real feud.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> :lmao
> :lmao
> 
> That is such a current WWE card. They are SO close to having a damn near perfect card but they do 1-2 small little things that will inevitably fuck it up. The first thing that jumped out was R-Truth being in the IC title chamber. I don't care what current story is going in that it makes sense for him to be involved, absolutely ZERO people want to see him in a chamber. I'd put Reigns in there, let him destroy some fools and get over before Sheamus does some underhanded shit to win. If they put Reigns in another match then use Sami Zayn or Adrian Neville,
> ...


Agreed about Truth and Los Matadores. I talked earlier about how maybe Harper/Rowan will physically take the spot of one of the tag teams. Maybe that is the intention.

As for our Rusev/Ziggler rollup discussion, it'd actually make a lot of sense for them to put the IC title on Rusev at EC. It proves he can win without Lana. He can also make a mockery of the US title, and say that he's glad that he's gotten a title that's just as good, but does not carry the stupid "American" title attached to it.

It also would make the IC title important for the inevitable Rusev/Ziggler feud.

I don't think they'll put it on Barrett, because they figure that he already has the KotR gimmick going, which is enough. Don't think they'll put it on Ryback since they just fed him to Bray.

I think that it will be Sheamus, but a Rusev win would be nice.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Raw is worth checking out imo. They've been stringing together a few decent shows the past few weeks with a bit of hype in between for the network specials and PPVs. Payback 4 way was good and the mini Shield reunion was :mark:. It's going to be fun watching those 3 interact in situations like that for the foreseeable future. It felt big. Owens/Cena at EC will own. I simply can't wait for that along with Owens/Zayn, Becky/Sasha and Balor/Breeze at Takeover tomorrow. It does feel like WWE is turning some sort of page at the moment with all the focus on the midcard and actual angles outside the main event. Hopefully it's for the better and actually lasts before they fuck it up.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Don't ask me why, I guess because it took place in DC and I was inclined to go back and watch, but I watched Capitol Punishment today.

U.S. Title: Kofi vs. Ziggler - ** 1/2 (miscommunications & lapses in pacing)
Miz vs. Riley - * 1/2 (nothing but punches)
ADR vs. Big Show - N/R (felt more like a segment)
IC Title: Barrett vs. Zeke - * 1/2 (felt so flat across the board)
Punk vs. Mysterio - *** 1/2 (the only thing that felt PPV worthy)
World Title: Orton vs. Christian - *** (liked the match, thought the finish was questionable)
Swagger vs. Bourne - ** 1/2 (good match, totally dead crowd)
WWE Title: Cena vs. Truth - ** (probably being generous because the Network kept cutting in and out, Truth no sold an STF and it looked terrible)

Really a shame they did nothing special at all with the show because I thought all the graphics and the setup were really cool. Red, white, and blue ropes and the White House as the titantron. Good theme, crappy show.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Don't ask me why, I guess because it took place in DC and I was inclined to go back and watch, but I watched Capitol Punishment today.
> 
> U.S. Title: Kofi vs. Ziggler - ** 1/2 (miscommunications & lapses in pacing)
> Miz vs. Riley - * 1/2 (nothing but punches)
> ...


I've never watched this PPV, but now I want to watch that Punk/Mysterio match.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

LilOlMe said:


> Agreed about Truth and Los Matadores. I talked earlier about how maybe Harper/Rowan will physically take the spot of one of the tag teams. Maybe that is the intention.
> 
> As for our Rusev/Ziggler rollup discussion, it'd actually make a lot of sense for them to put the IC title on Rusev at EC. It proves he can win without Lana. He can also make a mockery of the US title, and say that he's glad that he's gotten a title that's just as good, but does not carry the stupid "American" title attached to it.
> 
> ...


Somewhere down the line, if we don't get an extensive Sheamus/Rusev physical feud of Rusev's kicks vs Sheamus' hands, I'd LOVE me a tag team of Sheamus and Rusev if the two lose direction down the road. Right now Sheamus has direction putting his spin on a cocky bully-esque gimmick, but he is burning through guys and eventually will probably lose it. Rusev is quite talented and loaded with potential, but I think we all fear of him getting lost in the shuffle. Down the line, I think they'd be a great boost to the tag division, and as both hailing from outside of America, and both in Europe, you could call then the European Union or something and have them have that chip on their shoulder or just run a cocky bigmen team. Rusev's quite aggressive promo style with Sheamus' more laid back, self assured joking style would mix well. Not placing them on this pedistal, but could be Gordy/Doc lite, which was a team I enjoyed. 

Looking at the tag division: not gonna set the world on fire: but I think a break from Harper/Rowan freshens them slightly, you have the New Day working so much better as heels, Kidd/Cesaro, Lucha Dragons, in a few months perhaps a united Rhodes brothers if Dustin still wants to go since Cody is being wasted, once some more callups come I suspect an NXT tag team of somebody, PTP. Without the Usos and with every of these teams either having a fresher feeling or in a few cases newish, I think throw one team of compatible upper echelon guys and you would have something that could once again supplement the show nicely ala 2013.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

A Sheamus/Rusev team would need to be called White Russian.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sheamus and Rusev already had a feud. Nobody really cared.

I liked Capitol Punishment more than anyone else. Kofi/Ziggler was good as always. I like Alex Riley, so his match with Miz was also fun to me. ADR/Big Show was also not bad, even though it really wasn't much of a match. Punk/Mysterio is awesome, and I think I'll watch it right now. I also liked Christian/Orton more than others. Orton did a very good job of selling the concussion and Christian was on point with everything he did in that match. I initially didn't like the ending when I first saw it, but now I think it was a unique and well-done choice. Evan Bourne can't have a bad match of course, so the bout with Swagger was a positive. That show really suffered from a shit main event and a stupid theme, but the match quality is honestly not that bad.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

The build to that Big Show/Del Rio was hilarious, Ricardo running over Show was fantastic :lol


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It was a great segue to the Henry/Show feud. :lol That segment where Big Show and Mark Henry broke that cage. I think it was the same night as the Pimp Bomb.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Is this from that PPV?










:lmao


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

That's from Extreme Rules 2012


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

WrestlingOracle said:


> Probably one of the few wrestling fans on the planet that didn't eat that up but meh. Hard to believe I hear people say he is better as a juggernaut/more presence than Brock. Even though I love me some physicality, never been a giant Steen fan as an overall package.


So I mentioned that I was gonna watch some old Steen stuff. If you get a chance, try to get your hands on Tyler Black vs. Kevin Steen at Salvation (7/24/10) in ROH. 

He showed much more there than he's ever shown in NXT. They're dedicated to him just coming off as a pure brute in NXT, so it's really limited what he can do. I was surprised by how good his superkicks were, and look at him doing the Sharpshooter, lol. He also was a great and sadistic heel.

So if you're not too keen on how he looks in NXT, check out some of his older stuff. I do see where you're coming from, especially in your other post where you said he has a stupid face, lmao. I go back and forth, because there is something poseurish or lacking in true, authentic, dominance that I sense at times...but then other times he hits the mark for me. Again, I think it's because I heard all the Lesnar comparisons at first, so it came off as a kid trying to seem imposing to me. 

Which kind of helps, because he seems like a dick, so that actually works for that dick-like quality. But I just don't get the feeling that "shit is really about to go down" is authentically his aura. I don't know. But then sometimes I do. Sometimes it works for me, lol.

But yeah, him on the indy scene is very different as a worker. The never-ending headlocks and restholds in NXT surprised me, especially since I didn't hear complaints about that. People always complain about that with others. Why is he getting a pass? Just because he yells shit to the audience every once in awhile?

I was thinking that he NEEDED those for his stamina, but now watching him in ROH, that doesn't seem to be the case. Maybe they're directing him not to use too many moves, but he's definitely got more to him in his arsenal, than being a big brute who just wears people down all of the time.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

There's really no reason to compare Owens to Lesnar. I mean, I get that they're kinda booking them the same way, but that's about it. There's nothing about Owens that makes me think of Lesnar at all.  Lesnar is an athlete completely on his own level.

------------------------

Rewatched a bunch of stuff from PPV this year. The biggest changes in the viewings were the first two Cena/Rusev meetings (Fast Lane and Wrestlemania). Neither one I would call great, but both are enjoyable for different reasons. I really liked the struggle they showed late in the Fast Lane match with the submissions and then the AA nearfall. A lot of Rusev dominance and the finishing sequence was pretty well done imo, even though Rusev could've just pinned him. The Wrestlemania match is completely back-and-forth with no real structure, but it works. They constantly tried to one-up each other with Rusev busting out the flying headbutt and then Cena debuting the slingshot stunner. I still think the finish sucks because I ALWAYS hate AA out of nowhere finishes, but I can see it working since Rusev was caught off guard due to knocking Lana off the apron. Trying to think positive here.  Either way I ended up liking both more than prior. *** for both affairs.

Orton vs. Rollins in the steel cage is still awesome. Maybe it's the Orton mark in me but I think that match is so much fun. *** 1/2 all the way.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> There's really no reason to compare Owens to Lesnar. I mean, I get that they're kinda booking them the same way, but that's about it. There's nothing about Owens that makes me think of Lesnar at all.  Lesnar is an athlete completely on his own level.


Yeah, those comparasions have no base, Lesnar is the most dominant wrestler and best powerhouse ever. Owens is the total package, he can wrestle, he can brawl, he can fly, he can talk...


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Orton/Rollins always deliver, @Jack Evans 187

Although I like both, so that helps.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

This Banks/Lynch match has been amazing.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Sasha Banks & Becky Lynch just had the best women's match the WWE and/or NXT has ever put on. Standing fucking ovation, that was wonderful ladies.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

That's a match of the year candidate right there. Unbelievable match


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm so beyond annoyed with the booking of Sami Zayn this year. It's getting fucking ridiculous. Constant injury or concussion angles. Look, I liked tonight's final moment just as much as the next guy, but Zayn looks like a big fucking baby who can't beat anyone. It's so frustrating to talk to my friends who actually watch wrestling and they just shrug it off like they don't even know what I'm talking about. "Just building up Owens, Zayn has nothing left to prove in NXT." The guy never even fucking wins anything! He hardly even has competitive matches anymore. Ugh. Oh well, Takeover: Unstoppable.

Breeze vs. Balor - *** 1/4 (entrances were EPIC)
Blake & Muprhy vs. Enzo & Cass - *** (shockingly good match, crappy finish)
Sasha vs. Becky - **** (off the charts good)
Owens vs. Zayn - N/R (UGHHHHH)

Missed the women's tag match and the first half of Rhino/Corbin due to Network issues, but hey, welcome to NXT Joe.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I like how in NXT, that the Women's Title match is not only not a piss break, but it feels like the second biggest match on the card and has a main event level feel to it. This has gone for all the NXT specials I've seen. Sasha/Becky was excellent, and as I said, felt like a big match. Maybe it's just being in a small pond, but based off what I've seen in NXT, if utilized correctly, I think at some point down the road in the next couple of years we could see a Divas Title match close out a Raw (or at the very least Smackdown) with a couple of these girls.

Didn't really care for the main event. I get the Brock Lesnar comparisons for Owens from a booking perspective, but on his own Owens is no Brock. He's great in his own right, but Brock is just something I doubt we'll ever see duplicated. The closest to Brock I think we could've had was Rusev (and even then it may have been a stretch)... but then :cena happened.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I prefer the Zayn booking for a top babyface over the alternative. Much rather see babyfaces struggle rather than win when they don't really need to. Sami is fine. Everything has been booked perfectly.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

NXT was great - as you'd expect. Is it bad that I liked this more than either the most recent ROH and PWG releases? Dang. It's a New Day indeed. 

Opening was solid - Great way to open a show though, and the crowd was surely fired up. Huge false finish on the Spin Wheel. Unfortunately, Breeze does nothing for me because Zoolander isn't a serious wrestling character to fear in 2015. It's just how things work. Can't wait for the hijinx between he and Sandow. Breezdow anyone?

Tag match was quite good, and didn't have a problem w/the finish sans Blake whiffing that Superkick on Cass. Enzo's offense was also surprisingly entertaining. Murphy bump machine in the house, and matched up really well against Cass on the hot tag. ***1/4

Ladies tag was so-so. Emma was fun as a heel, Brooke was there somewhere, and Charlotte was good apart from that time she ran into Brooke. Someone got a Bayley headband from a good shot in the turnbuckle. Surely a memorable souvenir for some middle-aged man:lol

There was a Baron Corbin/Rhyno match.

Ladies were really good. Sasha drove some legit brutal blows on Becky's elbows in that stranglehold. Divorce Court on the apron! Lots of crazy stuff, but a couple things - Becky, post-arm work, "catches" Sasha on the dive and keeps her elevated for what felt like an eternity. No face dive, but heel dive? IDK, I still want Sasha to have a crack as babyface, but her performance was excellent - the arm manipulation stuff was good - glad to see she took it there. Becky laying out for that sympy at the end; I see you. Well done anyway ***1/2

Owens/Zayn was all types of awesome. Sami did everything you expect a fired up babyface to do against someone he hates. Opens with a call back, and this time Zayn catches Owens w/his back to him on the outside and we gets to brawling. Was really good - Owens smashes Sami into the stairs. They stay on the outside for most of it, Sami returns the favor w/the stairs. Owens was bumping all over the outside and just giving a nice reeling heel performance. The whole time though, I'm getting this feeling in my belly. And the feeling is that Zayn is going to be in big trouble. It's just going too well. And blam: powerbomb and done. I really enjoyed the whole story, including the antics afterwards. There was a tension running throughout the main that made it feel special like a Main should ****, and a good night of wrestling.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rah said:


> On the subject of old Benoit matches... has anyone seen Kawada/Benoit from Stampede in 1986?


*Black Mephisto (Toshiaki Kawada) vs Robbie Stewart (Stampede 1985) *

(More Kawada in Calgary, EX vq)

x2qxxpx

Not sure if you have seen it, but there it is for you.  EDIT: Uploaded the wrong video lol.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Okay, so I almost watched the NXT event today (would have been my first) but instead went with my old man for a couple of beers. 

I'm interested in though and have the WWE NETWORK until June 1st once the free month thing is over, so I want to watch some stuff. When exactly did the quality start? Was it last year or 2013? I really can't remember. Is it all HHH's doing? Is he calling the shots?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The quality has been there since the revamping of NXT in mid 2012. It just wasn't the cool thing until late 2013/early 2014. I plan on going back and watching from the very beginning.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

KENNY said:


> Okay, so I almost watched the NXT event today (would have been my first) but instead went with my old man for a couple of beers.
> 
> I'm interested in though and have the WWE NETWORK until June 1st once the free month thing is over, so I want to watch some stuff. When exactly did the quality start? Was it last year or 2013? I really can't remember. Is it all HHH's doing? Is he calling the shots?


The only shows on the network from NXT are from 2014 on.

I found Meltzer's list of top 20 NXT matches by ratings, and watched them all. That was my introduction:
http://officialfan.proboards.com/thread/521540/meltzers-top-ranked-nxt-matches

The 2013 ones are on Hulu Plus which I have, so I was able to watch those too. I'm sure you could find them somewhere.

I would also recommend Neville vs. Kevin Owens from 2/18/15 and Finn Balor vs. Kevin Owens 3/25/15.

Ditto with Finn Balor vs. Hideo Itami on 4/8/15 (it's the Wrestlemania Axxes episode). That match was incredible, and took me by surprise, because I hadn't heard much about it. Then again, I wasn't really following NXT at the time. That was by far Hideo's best performance in NXT so far.

Meltzer doesn't tend to rate the more random NXT shows as much as he does the PPVs (meaning, it's not that I think he wouldn't rate these highly. He just doesn't rate them as much. Same with RAW vs. WWE PPVs).

Also, I thought Charlotte vs. Bayley from NXT: Takeover 4-Way (9/11/14) was great, and was underrated when it comes to lauded women's matches in NXT/WWE.

Tyler Breeze vs. Hideo on 5/6/15 with Finn on the outside was kind of fun, as was Neville vs. Brodus Clay on 4/17/14 (it's the match where Neville lost four of his teeth).

My favorite of any NXT match still is probably Tyson Kidd vs. Neville at NXT: Takeover 5/29/14.


So to put it all in list form to make it easier, here's what you should watch (pasted Meltzer's list, so his ratings are in parentheses & then added my recommendations that are not on there):



Spoiler: spoiler



2013:
8/21 – 2/3 Falls: Sami Zayn vs. Cesaro (3.5 stars)
9/4 – Sami Zayn vs. Jack Swagger (3.75 stars)
10/16 – Sami Zayn vs. Bo Dallas (C) (3.5 stars)
11/27 – No. 1 Contenders: Adrian Neville vs. Sami Zayn (4 stars)

2014:
2/27 – Sami Zayn vs. Cesaro (4.25 stars) ArRival
2/27 – Ladder Match: Adrian Neville vs. Bo Dallas (C) (3.25 stars) ArRival
3/27 – Adrian Neville (C) vs. Bo Dallas (3.5 stars)
4/17 - Neville vs. Brodus Clay 
5/29 – No. 1 Contenders: Sami Zayn vs. Tyler Breeze (3.5 stars) Takeover
5/29 – Tournament Finals: Natalya vs. Charlotte (4 stars) Takeover
5/29 – Adrian Neville (C) vs. Tyson Kidd (3.5 stars) Takeover
9/11 - Charlotte vs. Bayley from NXT: Takeover 4-Way
9/11 – Fatal 4-Way: Adrian Neville (C) vs. Sami Zayn vs. Tyler Breeze vs. Tyson Kidd (4.5 stars) Takeover: Fatal 4-Way
10/2 – Last Chance Match: Adrian Neville (C) vs. Tyson Kidd (3.25 stars)
12/11 – Hideo Itami & Finn Balor vs. The Ascension (3.25 stars) Takeover: R Evolution
12/11 – Charlotte (C) vs. Sasha Banks (3.5 stars) Takeover: R Evolution
12/11 – If Zayn Loses, He Quits NXT: Adrian Neville (C) vs. Sami Zayn (4.75 stars) Takeover: R Evolution

2015:
2/11 – No. 1 Contenders: Adrian Neville vs. Finn Balor (4.25 stars) Takeover: Rival
2/11 – Fatal 4-Way: Bayley vs. Charlotte (C) vs. Becky Lynch vs. Sasha Banks (4 stars) Takeover: Rival
2/11 – Sami Zayn (C) vs. Kevin Owens (3.5 stars) Takeover: Rival
2/18 - Neville vs. Kevin Owens 
3/25 - Finn Balor vs. Kevin Owens 
3/27 – Charlotte vs. Sasha Banks (C) (4 stars)
3/27 – Adrian Neville vs. Finn Balor (3.5 stars)
4/8 - Finn Balor vs. Hideo Itami 
5/6 - Tyler Breeze vs. Hideo 
And just watch the whole recent 5/20/15 PPV.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As for last night's PPV, Becky vs. Sasha was great, and you could tell that both girls wanted to prove something. By far the most ambitious of all of the girls matches, and I liked it a lot. Have no problem with people calling it the best women's WWE/NXT match, because I agree in a lot of ways. 

However, that catching segment was really cringeworthy to me. Maybe because the whole thing was supposed to display power, but with the way Becky missed her and then took forever and a half and gently plopped Sasha down....all wrong. Little botches I can ignore, I just felt that was supposed to be a pivotal moment, and it was displayed all wrongly for what felt like over 30 seconds. It wasn't just one thing, it was that whole sequence.

Plus, it was weird anyway, with how hurt Becky's arm was supposed to be. I don't feel that she sold it like "I'm gonna do this anyway, even if I tear my arm off." Maybe because she was flustered by not catching Sasha right, I don't know. But that moment took me out of it.

Having said that, I give them credit for working like a true main event, and I don't feel right saying it was a great girls match. It was a great match, period, end of story.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I still can't shake knowing that the women in NXT get to practice their matches over and over again, which is why I hold back on some of the OTT praise, and comparisons to the main roster. ESPECIALLY because the girls who are said to be impressive in NXT, NEVER look all that impressive on the main roster to me, even when given time. That makes me think that there is something to being able to practice your match over and over again, and I don't think that's necessarily deserving of such high praise.

Maybe the men do too, but the lauded men in NXT have impressed me elsewhere, including when they get to the WWE roster, so I don't think it's a case of smoke and mirrors with them.

Will be very interesting to see if this crop of NXT girls can keep churning out top-notch matches on the main roster when given time, despite having to travel a ton. Perhaps H will fight for them to have practice time. He should, if he's smart, because then they can keep up what they're doing. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Samoa Joe debuting is why I wish I didn't read about wrestling much. It would have been cool if I had no inkling that he might show up. I expected it, so it took some of the buzz off. It's much better to watch as a more casual fan in situations like that, I think.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

*TLC: THE LAST PPV GOODBYE*

(written April 1st) Apparently I get the network until 12 am TONIGHT, not last night. 

Dolph Ziggler v. Kofi Kingston v. Jack Swagger
Much better than I’d thought it’d be. Seriously, can I stop thinking Kofi Kingston matches are OK? I’m not myself any more. Had less of a “you go out, I come in” than most mutli-mans (likely because of there being three people and not eight so you can’t forget about somebody unless you’re a mind-numbed goldfish). Even when they did do that, most of the spots were stuff that I’d buy as something to take someone out. Favourite was Swagger repeatedly getting his hand assaulted and having it taped. Kofi threw the ladder down onto it while Swagger was holding the ropes, so that was cool. Vickie climbing the ladder was ‘uhhh’ b/c she can’t win the match for Dolph. Until the finish was Kofi and Swagger dropping the belt to the floor like morons, and Ziggler grabbing it thus retaining it. I owe Maryse an apology from MITB. NOT ADDING.

-----------------
I watched that^ earlier but it’s like 9pm now. So I basically have to watch the whole show all now, before the network sub actually ends. Yayyy a time limit.

Matt Striker calls this “the last PPV of the decade.” HE WAS A SCHOOL TEACHER.
------------------

LayCool v. Nataylya/BethFennix
This was fine. Some decent boomps. Natti and Beeth had a pink table with MccOll like a witch and Laya like sort of a iwtch but kindof a frog witch kinf o thing. WAS a ittle funny. I am strapped 4 time and will not be very precision and I don’thave time 2 correct my spellingon stuff I don’t really give willy aboot NEXT. NOTHADING


Santino Marella/Vladimir Kozlov v. Justin Gabriel/The ginger guy (hahahaha gingers)
Santino calls them “the Lexus.” I was waiting for something to happen in this so that I could talk about it, and so it didn’t waste my time, but shit, I think I found something to talk about. Is Santino, like, good? I was like “I could talk about his good hip-toss”, “I could talk about his good forearm”, I could talk about his good comedy spots”, “I could talk about his good armbar.” Like damn, I think he might be pretty good. And I never cared about the guy at all. NOT ADDING.

Sheamus v. John Morrison
Oh yeah, Sheamus was KOTR. Guess I’ll have to watch some of that. I was going to start this by saying “hahahaha another ginger”, but no more games. Sheamus creative morriosn selling dive awful sheamus stiff spear into barricade morrion hung up sheamus clubs morriosn stiff kicks sheamus throw morriosn out ring ‘I just wanna win now’

Fuck it I wanna sleep

(seven weeks go by)

(written May 21st) I went through some discs I had and thought ‘wouldn’t be fun as fuck to watch whatever is on this disc and talk about it- no matter what it is – as long as I don’t think I’ve seen it?’ Well I remembered I was doing this instead. Aw man, I had some Necro Butcher lined up.

So, the paragraph on Sheamus/Morrison are ‘notes’ I sometimes do when I don’t feel like fully writing about a match. Basically, with these PPVs I’ve been writing about a match after I watch it, and if I don’t feel like writing, I jot down notes instead (because if I don’t feel like writing, it will suck, and that will not go – for am I not getting paid and approximately six people with their hand in their pants care about this. I have a duty). Then, later, I take the notes, and go ‘oh yeah, I wanted to mention that’ and create possibly multiple sentences out of it. Well I’unno what the fuck I wrote above, so I’ll have to watch the damn match again. 

Sheamus v. John Morrison
Oh yeah, Sheamus was KOTR. Guess I’ll have to watch some of that (this stays the same). So, wow, in my little shitty notes above I see no mention of how awesome the little collar/elbow takedown stuff was at the beginning. Obviously it’s pretty unimportant to the whole match, but damn, that little extra mile to make it look rough and legit its just great. Sheamus roared during a headlock takedown which I thought was terrific. Morrison is very clearly not someone he has to STRUGGLE to lift, but swinging a guy by only his head would require some mighty morphin power ranger force and when you don’t have that – you yell a little to make it look difficult. So, uh, yeah, this match is obviously phenomenal, no matter how terrible that double-jump off of the ladder near the finish was. Really incredible how they could put together a ladder match – where you don’t even have to pin/submit the opponent – have a broken wheel of the smaller guy be the central theme, and pull it off this plausibly. I thought the way they got around those evenly-matched moments were so good, an especially genius one being Sheamus and a hobbling Morrison holding ladders and looking like they’re going to really take a run at each. And in no possible way would Morrison – who had already lost some of that earlier in the match without a bad leg – come out on top of that. So they get around it by sandwiching Sheamus’ fingers between the ladders, which, mother of crap, is the most painful motherfucking thing (the fingers, IDK if I’ve ever done it with ladders). My notes mention ‘stiff’ and ‘barricade’ and while both guys hit some pretty stiff stuff, the barricade spots definitely were pretty rugged. The kind of thing you’d have to realllly prepare for, like holding your breath to backflip into a swimming pool. Notes also mention ‘creative’, and yeah –Sheamus did some really great and unique stuff. Those push-down thingys where he had Morrison’s leg tied up andjust pulled up and pushed down looked ridiculous and Morrison’s spaghetti ass legs made for extra visual after he was untied. The hung up + splat spot was great, too. And IRISH BOOT O’ DOOMing the ladder while Morrison was climbing was fantastic for desperation. The crazy thing about that is that not a few minutes later, the did a regular old push-down-ladder-so-guy-goes-on-ropes spot, and it got a bigger ‘oh noooo’ reaction from the crowd. Here’s this totally pedestrian spot that’s been in every ladder match ever, but the drama they’ve built the whole match makes everything feel important. Well, that double jump is really, really terrible. But it was after it so whatever. Excellent match. ADDING.

The Miz v. Randy Orton
Fuck the both of you. NOT ADDING.

Kane v. Rey Mysterio v. Alberto Del Rio v. Edge
Looks like Rey was going for some kind of black and white hybrid of his own mask and Atlantis’. Uh, I barely paid attention to this. Felt like it went forever and the amount of table bumps was pretty ludicrous. Edge jumps from a ladder to the outside of the ring to put Kane through a table and despite any comment I could make about the sacrifice being not worth it b/c this isn’t a tag team match – he barely seemed phased by it. At least he blocks a 619 with a chair; which you’d think might send the thing into his gigantic chin, but it was actually pretty cool. Some of this was all right, I did kind of like how Kane was mauling everybody, giving them an excuse to lay down – and then still get mauled by Kane. ‘Mauled’ is hyperbole. They ganged up on Kane after being fed up with it, too. NOT ADDING

John Cena v. Wade Barrett
Ya know what I KINDA liked this. One of my problems with Cena at times is the common complaint I make about him ‘acting too tired, too early’. Well that doesn’t fucking matter when he’s had several chairs swung at him and screams to get up to deliver the five knuckle shuffle. I had problems with this too like the first chair hit being a lame-o bulldog on an open chair (after a bunch of chair-avoidances and rough housing), and I have no idea how I felt about that office chair Jack fell down the hill, but you know, I felt like most of everything mattered here. Cena getting his Cena Da God shit interrupted with a chair on the second shoulder block was kinda great. And fuck it, I don’t think ‘chair match’ is all that dumb. Like, chairs are legal. All right. All I’m saying is it probably wouldn’t be laughed at I if originated in 1971 and there were a dozen great Lawler/Murdoch/Flair/Dundee/Savage chair matches. OK, that does sound silly. Bah whatever. This was a surprisingly good swan song for these shows. NOT ADDING.

Overall thoughts: who gives a shit no more ppvs

Current list:



Spoiler: WHATTUP?



1.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/30/10)
2.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (SmackDown 2/12/10)
3.	John Cena v. Batista (Extreme Rules 4/25/10)
4.	Sheamus v. John Morrison (TLC 12/19/10)
5.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Over the Limit 5/23/10)
6.	Drew McIntyre v. Chris Masters (SuperStars 8/26/10)
7.	The Miz v. Daniel Bryan (Night of Champions 9/19/10)
8.	Chris Masters v. Chavo Guerrero (SuperStars 8/12/10)
9.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 8/20/10)
10.	Jack Swagger v. Rey Mysterio (SmackDown 6/11/10)
11.	Christian v. William Regal (ECW 1/19/10)
12.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/16/10)
13.	Rey Mysterio v. Jack Swagger (Money in the Bank 7/18/10)
14.	Christian v. Ezekiel Jackson (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
15.	Rey Mysterio v. Mike Knox (SuperStars 2/18/10)
16.	Christian/Kane v. William Regal/Ezekiel Jackson (ECW 1/26/10)
17.	Sheamus v. John Morrison (Survivor Series 11/21/10)
18.	Dolph Ziggler v. Chris Masters (SuperStars 5/13/10)
19.	John Cena/Edge/Chris Jericho/Bret Hart/John Morrison/R-Truth/Daniel Bryan v. The Nexus (SummerSlam 8/15/10)
20.	Rey Mysterio v. Luke Gallows (SmackDown 3/5/10)
21.	Shawn Michaels v. The Undertaker (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
22.	Goldust v. William Regal (SuperStars 8/12/10)
23.	William Regal v. Evan Bourne (SuperStars 3/4/10)
24.	Chris Jericho v. Evan Bourne (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
25.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Extreme Rules 4/29/10)


Other Contenders:

-	Christian v. William Regal (SuperStars 1/14/10) 
-	The Undertaker v. Rey Mysterio (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
-	Rey Mysterio v. Luke Gallows (SmackDown 3/19/10)
-	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
-	Kofi Kingston v. Drew McIntyre (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
-	Drew McIntyre v. Kaval (SmackDown 9/10/10)
-	Rey Mysterio/The Big Show/Kofi Kingston/Chris Masters/MVP v. Alberto Del Rio/Jack Swagger/Cody Rhodes/Drew McIntyre/Tyler Reks (Survivor Series 11/21/10) 
-







!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WAIT, IT’S THE 2010 WWE PPV AFROAWARDS!!!



Spoiler: !!!!



The “too lazy to scroll up” award for Matches That Made the List
1.	John Cena v. Batista (Extreme Rules)
2.	Sheamus v. John Morrison (TLC)
3.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Over the Limit)
4.	The Miz v. Daniel Bryan (Night of Champions)
5.	Rey Mysterio v. Jack Swagger (Money in the Bank)
6.	Christian v. Ezekiel Jackson (Royal Rumble)
7.	Sheamus v. John Morrison (Survivor Series)
8.	John Cena/Edge/Chris Jericho/Bret Hart/John Morrison/R-Truth/Daniel Bryan v. The Nexus (SummerSlam)
9.	Shawn Michaels v. The Undertaker (WrestleMania)
10.	Chris Jericho v. Evan Bourne (Fatal 4-Way)
11.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Extreme Rules)
12.	The Undertaker v. Rey Mysterio (Royal Rumble)

(don’t remember about the order of these)
-	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (WrestleMania)
-	Kofi Kingston v. Drew McIntyre (Fatal 4-Way)
-	Rey Mysterio/The Big Show/Kofi Kingston/Chris Masters/MVP v. Alberto Del Rio/Jack Swagger/Cody Rhodes/Drew McIntyre/Tyler Reks (Survivor Series) 

The “they might be ‘Stan’ and ‘Lose Yourself’ but you’re ‘Drug Ballad’” award for Probably Personal Favourite Matches
1.	John Cena v. Batista (Extreme Rules) (oops….)
2.	Sheamus v. John Morrison (Survivor Series)
3.	Christian v. Ezekiel Jackson (Royal Rumble)
4.	Rey Mysterio/The Big Show/Kofi Kingston/Chris Masters/MVP v. Alberto Del Rio/Jack Swagger/Cody Rhodes/Drew McIntyre/Tyler Reks (Survivor Series) 
5.	Sheamus v. John Morrison (TLC)

The “just kidding, it was a FOAM brick” award for Huh, This Match Was Surprisingly Pretty Enjoyable
1.	Michelle McCool v. Beth Phoenix (Extreme Rules)
2.	Edge v. Jack Swagger (Hell in A Cell)
3.	Kane v. The Undertaker (Bragging Rights)
4.	Dolph Ziggler v. Kofi Kingston (SummerSlam)
5.	John Cena v. Wade Barrett (TLC)

The “but I wanna be a astronaut!!!” award for Unrealistically Wish You Were Here
1.	Chris Masters
2.	Goldust
3.	William Regal
4.	Mark Henry
5.	Luke Gallows

The “WHERE WAS CHRISTIAN” award for WHRE WAS CHRISTIAN?
1.	SummerSlam
2.	Extreme Rules
3.	Elimination Chamber
4.	Fatal 4-Way
5.	Over the Limit

The “stop faking bro you ate the wrong brownie” award for This Actually Happened
1.	JTG v. Shad strap match (Extreme Rules)
2.	Quote: “I saw DiBiase set a ladder upside-down (?????????????!) next to an already-set up ladder, then plant another between the upside-down ladder and the ropes. This achieved nothing.” (Money in the Bank)
3.	Matt Striker: “LARIAT-OH” (Royal Rumble)
4. WWE Champion Randy Orton means nothing in his match defending the WWE Championship (Bragging Rights)
5.	Michael Cole might want to see the WWE fail (SummerSlam)

The “HHH and Scott Steiner called, they think you suck” award for Most Painful Match
1.	Chris Jericho v. Edge (WrestleMania)
2.	Kane v. Edge (Survivor Series)
3.	Raw Money in the Bank
4.	Royal Rumble
5.	Raw Elimination Chamber

The “Hornswaggle just ran through a painted hole in the wall” award for Worst Thing That Wasn’t a Match
1.	Chris Jericho v. Edge (WrestleMania) (it was that bad)
2.	Edge
3.	The commentary
4.	Randy Orton
5.	The Miz is important (SummerSlam)

The “conjunctivitis” award for Worst Thing Ever
1.	Chris Jericho v. Edge (WrestleMania)
2.	Edge
3.	Kane v. Edge (Survivor Series)
4.	Edge’s spear set-up
5.	Raw Money in the Bank

The “15 year olds get your ***** facebook emoticon ready” for Funniest Thingy
1.	Again, DiBiase setting that ladder upside-down
2.	Vickie Guerrero’s desperation with a broomstick (Extreme Rules)
3.	The Survivor Series tag I added to the list
4.	CM Punk trying to keep the casket open while Kane is shutting it on him (Fatal 4-Way)
5.	CM Punk: Illnois natives – “speaking of fat people nobody likes” – the Big Show. (Night of Champions)

The “I hate pomegranates – here are my favourite pomegranates” award for Most Enjoyable Overall Show
1.	SummerSlam
2.	Night of Champions
3.	um…….in my write-up I called Survivor Series “mostly pretty fun”
4.	…………………………………….


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Finally got around to watching Payback on the Network. Much like Extreme Rules, thought it was a really strong show all around.

Sheamus/Ziggler - *** 1/4 (A tad bit better on camera mainly due to the BLOOD and finishing sequence. Kinda nifty that Ziggler hurt himself on the headbutt and it cost him the match, you don't see that much)

Cesaro & Kidd/New Day 2 out of 3 Falls - *** 1/2 (This was awesome from bell to bell. Those two teams have excellent chemistry. Xavier was hilarious at rignside. Crowd was chanting 'this is awesome' and he was yelling 'we know'. hahaha)

Ryback vs. Bray Wyatt - *** 1/4 (The camera angles they used for Ryback's frog splash still doesn't do it justice. It was so impressive. Liked how the rib injury played into the finish. Quality match)

Cena vs. Rusev I Quit Match - *** 1/4 (I'll admit this came off way slower on camera and did drag at times, but I still can't hate on the match because of how much I loved it in person. The constant asking didn't bother me because Rusev demanded Chioda to do so. Rusev's performance, again, was fantastic. Still felt like a good war and I give both men credit for busting their asses.)

Didn't watch the Divas match and Barrett/Neville again.

Rollins/Orton/Ambrose/Reigns - *** 3/4 (This was fuckin awesome. Everything from the Shield reuniting on the outside onwards was pure gold. Reigns saying to Ambrose "loser buys beers" was hilarious and I swear at one point he gave the middle finger to Noble.  A couple things I noticed was the camera angle for Orton's superplex on Rollins and Orton laying around forever. The camera angle sucked because you didn't really get to see that he snapped it off quicker than usual because both of J&J were reaching up to come after him. Also if you pay attention to him after he takes the triple powerbomb, he's just sitting there like he's fine. What was he doing? :lol I thought the finish was a bit of a letdown after all the chaos. It would've been better if Rollins buckled bombed him before hitting the pedigree. Felt too easy, but an otherwise awesome main event)

Can't fight the friction!


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Thank you @LilOlMe much appreciated. :mark: will get onto those asap!

:lmao at @Yeah1993. :mark: for "Fuck the both of you, not adding" for Orton/Miz :lmao

Great list too, there's some stuff I need to re watch and some check out for the first time.

edit - fuck that Cena/Rusev match, mainly because of :CENA


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

What do you guys think about Naomichi Marufuji? Intrigued by him. Watched his 10/29/06 match with KENTA that Meltzer rated **** 3/4, and loved Marufuji's whole demeanor the instant he came out. Looked like an Emperor, and carried himself like one too.

Does he live up to the hype in other matches? Feel like he could be one of my faves, just based on what I saw in this match.

Also watched the KENTA/Ishimore vs. Marufuji/Ibushi 7/15/07 match, which Meltzer also rated **** 3/4. Fun as hell, though it was slow to start off with. I like how they kept trying to break each other down with submission moves, until all hell broke loose. Also liked how it looked like KENTA was trying to force Ibushi to watch what was being done to Marufuji from the outside, when he was trying his best to interfere. Cool little touch. Very cinematic.

So does anyone have any other recommended Marufuji matches? And what are your thoughts on him in general?

You can reply in the Puro section, but I wanted to at least post here to get the thoughts of people in this thread.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Marufuji is either really good or horrid. 8 times out of 10 it's the latter. (I've seen like 10 Marufuji matches and only liked 2, so this post is surprisingly accurate)


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I'm in the mood for some :nash

Picking stuff to watch at random, and it's 6am here. Likely I'll fall asleep but anyway

Master Of The Powerbomb Match
Kevin Nash vs. Sid Vicious - havent watched this before, already know the result, short match, plus SID VICIOUS. 

Kevin Nash vs Scott Steiner vs Goldberg - WCW New blood rising

Triple H v HBK v Jericho v Goldberg v Orton v Nash - Summerslam 2003


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The worst thing to happen to Marufuji is KENTA, and vice versa. Fuji works fine if his opponent reigns him in and lets things breathe. There's Morishima & Marufuji vs Akiyama & Hashi as well as the McGuinness match in RoH that may be a start, but you're not missing much if you skip his career.


EDIT: you may enjoy the match I repped you with. KENTA & Marufuji vs Kanemaru & Hashi 12/09/2003


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Chris Benoit & Rick Patterson vs Mike Hammer & Butch Moffat (Stampede 1985) (JIP)*

x2r00ui

Had another 'rarity' i thought id share. Benoit's debut.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

NXT Takeover...

:banderas

How do they keep making these things better than the last. Fantastic show top to bottom. Becky and Sasha stole the whole thing away. :mark:


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Sasha Banks/Becky Lynch is one of the best matches this year, probably top 3 and I'd say the best womens match to ever happen in WWE.

Owens/Zayn was great for being a bit short and having no real finish. Both guys are fantastic and I thought this was booked really well.

Joe debut was great too. A motivated, in shape Samoa Joe is amazing and it looks like that's what we've got.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Owens/Zayn reminded me so much of the Danielson/Morishima Man Up match. I think people will truly love that match once the Owens/Zayn feud ends (if it ends, of course).

Is there anyone who has seen any sort of write-up or project done regarding Stampede Wrestling? For a territory that is so important in the history of wrestling, it is never really talked about compared to promotions in places like Texas and Tennessee.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Spoiler:  Next weeks NXT's main event



Owens V Crowe :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Marufuji's by far my least favourite Japanese wrestler. Have I talked about Angle no selling shit and everything enough the past year for people ITT to know how I feel about it? My point is, Marufuji is seriously fifty times worse. I will admit I've mostly only seen his, like, 'highest praised' stuff and that usually involves KENTA who like Rah said brings out the absolute worst in him, and vice-versa (and KENTA can be reallllllllly good). The tag Rah mentioned I watched in 2010 and it was probably my least favourite match at the time. Hashi is good, though. I've seen probably three Marufuji matches I thought were actually pretty good. Against Kobashi, against Taue, and w/KENTA against Misawa and Ogawa. I don't remember thinking Marufuji was good in any of them though. Thought the Meltzer-****3/4 KENTA match was absolutely horrible. I remember them hitting Germans in a row like a war memory.



KENNY said:


> Great list too, there's some stuff I need to re watch and some check out for the first time.


Still got a lot of TV to go through, too. Of the top of my head there are twelve matches I can still add.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

I agree with Yeah1993's comparison of Marufuji to Angle, but have the exact opposite opinion of what that means. True, you won't find much in their match history of brilliant selling performances, or adequate selling performances, or selling performances. But on the other hand, fuck it: Angle is the fucking truth, and Marufuji is even better. From '03-'10, he was a legit BITW contender, and I will brook no disagreement on this point.

Every match from Marufuji & KENTA's GHC junior tag title reign is ***3/4 or better (usually better). Same for Marufuji's ROH matches. The 10/29/06 match is ***** by my reckoning. The match where he won the title from Nagata last year was amazing, his defenses against Sekimoto and Sugiura were gold, and the Suzuki match from this year was must-see. You know what, just go to Ditch's sites, search for Marufuji, and get every match that turns up. They're all worth your time.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Thank you for all of the responses, guys! All noted.

Feel like I'll probably agree more with Bruce L, because I really liked that KENTA/Marufuji match. In many of the Japanese matches I've seen, people are "no-selling" left and right, so I guess I didn't find it egregious there. I take it more as buckling down and just being a lot tougher. I don't remember specifics, but I remember a guardrail spot that really took them out. They seemed to sell that sufficiently well (probably because they were really hurt), lol, and I didn't feel that the match was too fast moving in general, as to make the selling unrealistic. Felt like a war to me. 

Mainly, I was just taken with Marufuji's aura in that match. Something about that cool, unaffected, hard to read, insulated, silent intensity has always been something that really appealed to me. And Marufuji seems to have that in spades. Really a shame that McMahon doesn't seem to know what to do with many foreign wrestlers, because there are a lot of potential matchups that appeal to me.

Perhaps he really isn't that good. I'll have to watch more, and I definitely will now. Thank you so much Bruce L, that site is a treasure trove!!!!!! Going to definitely be pursuing his matches there.

Thank you, Rah. I will be checking out the matches you mentioned. Do you have the Nigel one? You can PM me, if you do. Thanks, again.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I agree with aura thing for sure. I mean, I've never seen it in Marufuji, but the badass stoicism is one of the reasons I like the Hashimotos and Misawas so much.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 you should really watch Sasha Banks vs. Becky Lunch from the recent NXT event. It's got the limbwork that you crave for.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I might do that if I can find it. After gathering the 2010 TV I want to watch, I am really missing the network.

On that note, for some reason I can't find Cena/Sheamus from the 5/17/10 Raw or that Punk/Taker from SmackDown. Does anyone have them? Of all the matches. I found a match with a guy called "Eli Cottonwood", but not those two.

Also decided I actually want to finish this thing reasonably soon so I'll likely skip FCW altogether. All I'll say is Five Years Ago me really recommends the Danielson/Ki match.


Watched the two matches zep put up. The tag was only a few minutes of 13 or something but it was pretty bad. Benoit's partner didn't seem bothered at all that the Ivan Koloff-looking dude keep interrupting him.

The Kawada match. OK, there's a mask on so I won;t doubt that it's Kawada, but....I'm pretty sure that's not Chris Benoit. :lmao They call him "Robbie Stuart" which doesn't sound like a Benoit name I've ever heard before, and his hair colour looks too light. Something about him being a European champion too which isn't likely because this was the same year as Benoit's debut. Then the post-match promo and yeah, that's not Benoit. What we see of the match is pretty fun, though. Not-Benoit unhooked his arms during a tombstone and put them on Kwada's thighs while going down which was kind of scary.

edit - through some google-searching, Robbie Stuart is Chic Cullen.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I might do that if I can find it. After gathering the 2010 TV I want to watch, I am really missing the network.
> 
> On that note, for some reason I can't find Cena/Sheamus from the 5/17/10 Raw or that Punk/Taker from SmackDown. Does anyone have them? Of all the matches. I found a match with a guy called "Eli Cottonwood", but not those two.
> 
> ...


I just realised I uploaded the wrong fucking match lol. That video is indeed Mephisto vs Robbie Stewart lol. I sort the right one out later. 

*Chris Benoit vs Black Mephisto (Toshiaki Kawada) (Stampede, 1986) (JIP)*

x2r252c

Mephisto is Toshiaki Kawada. That's right, Benoit vs Kawada! In EX vq!)

Some info here about a possible date: http://www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=290&page=4&s=2100

@Rah
@The Rabid Wolverine
@Yeah1993

Should be the correct video this time lol. That other upload was actually Mephisto/Robbie Stewart.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> What do you guys think about Naomichi Marufuji? Intrigued by him. Watched his 10/29/06 match with KENTA that Meltzer rated **** 3/4, and loved Marufuji's whole demeanor the instant he came out. Looked like an Emperor, and carried himself like one too.
> 
> Does he live up to the hype in other matches? Feel like he could be one of my faves, just based on what I saw in this match.
> 
> ...


Marufuji has become very lazy recently and it well really be that he's just fucked up. If you wanna see something good from him, my advice is to see these matches:

- Naomichi Marufuji vs Akira Taue - NOAH Navigate For Evolution 03/05/06
- Naomichi Marufuji vs Prince Devitt - 23.12.2009 / 30.01.2010 / 19.06.2010
- Naomichi Marufuji vs Katsuhiko Nakajima - 11.02.2010
- Naomichi Marufuji vs Koji Kanemoto - 05.03.2010

His 2010 IWGP Jr. Heavyweight Championship run is great from top to bottom, I think that's his best body of work.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Anyone remember the Steel Cage match on RAW between Jericho & Wyatt from last year? I watched it last night and really enjoyed it. Everything felt like a struggle and the finish was basic, but really unique. The final minute or two reminded me of Bret/Owen and I liked Jericho's selling of the knee that he actually hurt on his own after that huge dive from the top. *** 1/2

The same episode (September 8, 2014) has an Orton vs. Reigns main event that goes 15+ minutes that I really enjoyed but had a shitty run-in DQ finish. Postmatch stuff is cool though because they drop the Cage and the authority beats the fuck out of Reigns.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Orton/Reigns bores me, they have very minimal chemistry.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I loved their Summerslam match. Orton wasn't all that great in his authority role, but I'm one of the supporters of the stuff with Reigns (even though I can only remember those two matches between them)


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

What do folks here think of the HBK/Batista matches from '08 and the Cena/Batista series from '10? My recent Taker/Batista kick has me interested in some more of Big Dave's good works, and I figure there's only so bad he can be against Shawn, and I really like his and Cena's SummerSlam '08 match.

EDIT: Also figure I'll throw this in here - I watched Jericho/Edge from WM26, and don't understand why so many here were shitting on it a while back. Seriously? I was expecting a "dirt-worst match of all time" candidate. It's far from the masterpiece of structure and psychology Jericho has made it out to be in the past, but it's a damn good world title match between two guys from whom you'd expect nothing less. ***3/4, for me.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

About Batista, his HBK match is just good, but all the series against Cena are GOLD, Cena brought the best out of heel Batista, their LMS at Extreme Rules is around ****3/4 for me, a classic. And that Jericho/Edge, I really REALLY liked it, less than their Steel Cage, but a great match, I think people hates everything Edge did past Rated R Superstar.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

So I'm finally watching the NXT UNSTOPPABLE event. I'm really enjoying it. 

- Finn Balor (amazing entrance) vs Tyler Breeze - ***
- Bayley and Charlotte vs Emma and Dana Brooke - **
- Rhyno vs Baron Corbin - ** 1/2
- Blake and Murphy vs Enzo Amore and Big Cass - ***
- Sasha Banks vs Becky Lynch - **** 1/2 (, standing ovation, absolute classic, tore the house down). This is one of the best womens matches I've EVER seen.
- *** 1/2 for Owens/Zayn. Great video package to set up the match and feud. An all out fight rather than a traditional match, and Owens did what he had to do as promised. I really like the dynamic of how Owens has to deal with Balor as #1 contender, punishment from Regal for that attack on him, the eventual match with Samoa Joe and a returning Zayn. I felt that was great booking. 

Joe/Owens felt big too.


I haven't watched a NXT event before, but I got to say I like Finn Balor, Charlotte/Bayley, Enzo Amore and BIG CASS. I thought Rhyno made Baron Corbin look good too. I'm not saying this as a statement of not liking others, but those caught my interest more. Finn Balor the most at the moment.

(i've seen zayn/owens before this show)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Starting to really watch the 2010 TV stuff. Going to mostly use the ‘dot point’ or whatever form to talk about what I watch. I’m going to save SuperStars for later because WWE has every episode on their channel. 

Spelling errors imminent etc etc 

Morrison/McIntyre No DQ match was all right, I guess. Both guys took some cringey bumps, especially McIntyre getting hip-tossed on the steps and, let’s just say, not landing flat on it. Commentators kept bringing up McIntyre’s “aggressiveness” but he only used the weapons out of desperation most of the time. He would go to an arm bar or something for the normal parts of the match. It looked absolutely stupid when he swung the belt at Morrison, missed – then we actually got control over Morrison, literally dropped to the belt to the floor and left it there. 

Watched the Big Show against Kofi, then against Morrison. Both were obviously smaller dude getting around big dude, but the Morrison match was way better. You might remember it as the amazing trash talking match. The trash taing was so good I kind of didn’t realise how fun the match was until Morrison was kicking at Show’s legs and shit. Striker actually brought up a good point about Show getting too cocky thus letting Morrison get moving. Finish was a punch to tha face during a springboard, so that’s awesome. I swear I watched the Kofi match before. In fact, no, I 100% percent did, because I remembered the finish as soon as it happened. Kofi accidentally pokes Show in the eye leading to Show blindingly punching the referee directly in the face, full force. He looked like the babyface when getting DQed and going “it was an accident!!!!” Kofi botches incredibly while climbing to the top rope and then…kind of…jumps on Show…with double boots or something. Was hilarious and awful. Pretty sure MVP tripped over chasing the Miz out of there too. Actual match wasn’t bad. Show hit a killer spear during the commercial break.

Rey/Ziggler 2/5 is not good. I’ve complained about Ziggler’s back-and-forth stuff over and over and over but goddamn when you start affecting Rey Mysterio matches you have built a serious case for my shitlist. I’ve seen you work over fucking KOFI Ziggler. MORE THAN ONCE. You were absolutely overshadowed next to Masters in that match with him, but you were still fucking good. Oh for fuck’s sake there were a couple Rey moves here you took PERFECTLY. Way better than most people do. What the hell is this? How can I take that move YOU did seriously if you have another move lined up just for Rey counter it? Rey didn’t help, because he sort of kept using, uh, ‘hope spots’, when he was barely in trouble anyway and that would just loop into “your turn, my turn.” And this wasn’t even back-and-forth in like the heated kind of way where you feel they’re at least doing it because of ‘emotion’ or whatever (I probably hate that even more, e.g. Richards/Elgin, but there’s at least a reason for them to continue it). The crowd barely even gave a shit. Bleh. How’s their 2009 feud? I know some reading this don’t feel the same way about Ziggler as I do, but, objectively – are they like a usual Rey matches? Not for quality, but “lay-out”/”formula”-wise, I guess. 

In case anyone is wondering, I’m not sure where I got all of these matches from. I know where some came from, but others….not a clue, I have no idea where I read that these were recommended matches. So, on that note, I watched a three minute Ziggler/Khali. Khali was hideous. Put zero effort into making an irish whip look good and less negative effort into making the “spring head off of ropes look good. Ziggler did what he could, and the sleeper finish was good enough to make this reasonably OK. 

Two minute Ziggler/Masters was awesome. Masters even has incredible NECK selling. NECK selling. Neck selling shouldn’t even be all that hard because everybody everywhere has experiences a sore neck, but how often do you see neck selling that makes you stop and look? Masters sold the ZigZag incredibly, too, and actually got to look pretty strong during the masterlock struggle. I’m not entirely sure when this happened; how far away it is from their great SS match, especially. I’m trying to mostly catch these TV matches in chronological order, but I’m pretty sure this is from much later in the year than I’m up to. Grisham went on about Night of Champions. 

Rey/Hart Dynasty v. Punk/Gallows/Darren Young was a decently fun SD main event tag. Don’t think I’ve ever seen the spot where Smith & Kidd lifted someone (forget who) in a suplex position for Rey do pull off a seated senton on him before. I’ve said crappy things about Tyson Kidd and I think I’ve come to terms with the fact that he’s good at some things, not good at other things, but he seems to frequently do those ‘other things.’ Hopefully he does the things during the Rey match because after that Ziggler match I have no idea how it’s going to go down. He isn’t even a heel in that match, right? How is that match going to work? Um anyway this tag was OK. 

Swagger/Taker on Raw started out OK but got kind of uninteresting as it went on. It definitely wasn’t a long match, but it got some time it needed to make WHC Swagger look good while still obviously losing. Taker at least got to sell a leg for a bit and wobbled it during the ending tombstone. 

Rey/Kane v. Punk/Gallows was a really fun tag with not a dull moment. Punk was a great scumsucker the whole thing. Rey plays Jerry against Gallows before Gallows catches him which leads to Punk begging to get in to start destroying. Lands a nasty baseball slide into the ring post, which the camera got close up and Rey looked huuuurt. Punk getting careless leads to Kane getting tagged in, and Punk cowers to the corner like Jim Cornette caught by a Road Warrior or something. Punk has an incredible facial off of a Kane uppercut before Rey starts getting some revenge in. Gallows almost pulls a McIntyre-level swing on a DDT bump somewhere in there. Just a full on fun, hot tag match with no wasted spot. Best match so far. Not good enough for the list, but good enough to recommend watching.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Yeah1993 said:


> How’s their 2009 feud? I know some reading this don’t feel the same way about Ziggler as I do, but, objectively – are they like a usual Rey matches? Not for quality, but “lay-out”/”formula”-wise, I guess.


Unless I'm completely misremembering, the SummerSlam '09 match at least adheres to a pretty good "Rey as ragdoll/Opponent as thrower-around of ragdoll" layout. Pretty sure that's the only one from that series I've seen, but it's a good one.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Steiner Brothers vs. Yokozuna & Bam Bam Bigelow (tag team titles, Providence, RI 8/12/93)*

xdlrpn_

Came across this whilst browsing. Havn't watched it yet, but saw the participants and it peaked my interest.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Almost done with my next 08 PPV Ramble... just need to sit through the main event... might be up today... might not be... depends if I can suffer through it :lmao.

Oh hey new video on my BLOG~! .


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Thought I may aswell use the network for good use. 

just compiled some matches i'm going watch in this order

John Cena vs Bobby Lashley, Great American Bash 2007. 
Raven vs Sandman - ECW cyberslam 1996
WCW 1993 battle bowl main event
Mr Kennedy vs Undertaker - no mercy 2006


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

"use the network for good use"

Then you pick an ECW match and a BATTLEBOWL match. DOES NOT COMPUTE.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Random viewings ratings blitz:

Bret Hart vs. Bam Bam Bigelow (King of the Ring '93) - ★★★¾

Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat (WCW Saturday Night 5/14/'94) - ★★★★½

Brian Pillman vs. Johnny B. Badd (Fall Brawl '95) - ★★★¾

Chris Benoit vs. Dean Malenko (Hog Wild) - ★★★★¼

Vader vs. Bradshaw (In Your House: Breakdown) - ★★★½

Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar (Iron Man match, SmackDown 9/18/'03) - ★★★★½

Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio (SmackDown 3/18/'04) - ★★★★

Lita vs. Trish Stratus (Unforgiven '06) - ★★★¾

Batista vs. the Undertaker (WrestleMania 23) - ★★★★½

Randy Orton vs. John Cena vs. HHH vs. JBL (Backlash '08) - ★★★¾

Big Show vs. Alberto Del Rio - (Last Man Standing, SmackDown 1/11/'13) - ★★★★

Sheamus & Christian vs. Cesaro & Swagger (Raw 2/10/'14) - ★★★¾


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Went on a bit of randomness binge yesterday myself:

RAW - July 8, 2013
Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan - *** 1/2 (stellar fast paced face vs. face matchup here)
Rollins & Reigns vs. Tons of Funk - ** 3/4 (rock solid tag match that's odd to watch as the Shield gets virtually no reaction)
Randy Orton vs. CM Punk - *** (went down an rewatch, paced a bit slow but still good)

Alberto Del Rio vs. Christian (Smackdown 6/22/12) - *** 1/4 (they can sleepwalk their way to a great match)

^^^ That same show has a solid Bryan/Kane match and a Sheamus/Ziggler main event I haven't watched yet.

Also watched the WWE Title Chamber from EC 2012 as it was the only one I'd never seen. Punk vs. Miz vs. Jericho vs. Truth vs. Kofi vs. Ziggler. Thought the first half was good stuff but the Jericho injury angle totally KILLED the flow of the match. Didn't buy into Miz having a chance to win either. *** for it. Really needed some bigger names in there, although they didn't have many at the time. That whole ppv kinda sucked balls, huh?


Big Cal's World said:


> "use the network for good use"
> 
> Then you pick an ECW match and a BATTLEBOWL match. DOES NOT COMPUTE.


But he DID however pick Taker/Kennedy for No Mercy, so it works out.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Does anyone have a link to that Lynch/Banks match ?


Edit: Remember liking that wwe title 2012 chamber match way back when


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Skins said:


> Does anyone have a link to that Lynch/Banks match ?
> 
> 
> Edit: Remember liking that wwe title 2012 chamber match way back when


Don't have a link, but just this second finished watching it on the Network and it DEFINITELY lived up to the hype. The best women's match I've ever seen was Mschif vs Awesome Kong for Shimmer, but this Lynch/Banks match is every bit as good as that one. Amazing limb work, both women sold their asses off every step of the way, the moves and counters were insane, they got a very well deserved standing ovation for that match. This is right up there with Lesnar/Rollins/Cena and Lesnar/Reigns for my current MotY.

Edit: here is a link, the border is annoying though https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V9ogeAg2WLY


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Any thoughts on these would be much appreciated, I'm going to watch soon. 

- Ric Flair vs. Tatsumi Fujinamim (SuperBrawl I)
- Rey Mysterio vs. Tajiri (No Mercy 2003)
- Matt Hardy vs. Edge (Unforgiven 2005)
- Ole and Arn Anderson vs. The Rock ‘N’ Roll Express (Starrcade 1986)
- Roddy Piper vs. Greg Valentine (Dog Collar match) (Starrcade 1983)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brock said:


> *Steiner Brothers vs. Yokozuna & Bam Bam Bigelow (tag team titles, Providence, RI 8/12/93)*
> 
> xdlrpn_
> 
> Came across this whilst browsing. Havn't watched it yet, but saw the participants and it peaked my interest.


Holy shit @ this on paper.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> RAW - July 8, 2013
> Rollins & Reigns vs. Tons of Funk - ** 3/4 (rock solid tag match that's odd to watch as the Shield gets virtually no reaction)
> 
> Also watched the WWE Title Chamber from EC 2012 as it was the only one I'd never seen. Punk vs. Miz vs. Jericho vs. Truth vs. Kofi vs. Ziggler. Thought the first half was good stuff but the Jericho injury angle totally KILLED the flow of the match. Didn't buy into Miz having a chance to win either. *** for it. Really needed some bigger names in there, although they didn't have many at the time. *That whole ppv kinda sucked balls, huh?*


That tag is like the biggest gem of 2013.

And yeah @ the bold. Only worthwhile thingy is the SD chamber which has its share of neat things pepper throughout.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Don't have a link, but just this second finished watching it on the Network and it DEFINITELY lived up to the hype. *The best women's match I've ever seen was Mschif vs Awesome Kong for Shimmer*, but this Lynch/Banks match is every bit as good as that one. Amazing limb work, both women sold their asses off every step of the way, the moves and counters were insane, they got a very well deserved standing ovation for that match. This is right up there with Lesnar/Rollins/Cena and Lesnar/Reigns for my current MotY.
> 
> Edit: here is a link, the border is annoying though https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V9ogeAg2WLY







Other parts are in the suggested videos. Essential watch.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

The hits just keep on coming:

Ric Flair & Arn Anderson vs. Vader & Steve Austin (WCW Saturday Night 11/13/'93) - ★★★¾

Fit Finlay vs. Chris Benoit (Slamboree '98) - ★★★¾

Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Benoit (Raw 2/16/'04) - ★★★★

HHH vs. Shelton Benjamin (Raw 3/29/'04) - ★★★★

Edge vs. Ric Flair (TLC match, Raw 1/16/'06) - ★★★½

Kane vs. Edge vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Alberto Del Rio (TLC 2010) - ★★★¾

Adrian Neville vs. Finn Bálor (NXT TakeOver: Rival) - ★★★¾

Charlotte vs. Sasha Banks vs. Bayley vs. Becky Lynch (NXT TakeOver: Rival) - ★★★★

Roman Reigns vs. the Big Show (Extreme Rules) - ★★★½

Kofi & Big E vs. Cesaro & Kidd (Payback) - ★★★¾


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

well i loved sasha/becky, so i should probably watch that fatal 4 way match :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's not as good as the singles, but it's fun.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

@Hayley Saxdough



> I watched all *three Masters/Dolph matches* and had to hear Matt Striker being a fuckhead.


do you have the dates? Other than 5/13, obv. I just want to make sure I don't miss one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

6/18 & 9/3.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Awesome. I would have watched 9/3 yesterday, then.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Big Cal's World said:


> Almost done with my next 08 PPV Ramble... just need to sit through the main event... might be up today... might not be... depends if I can suffer through it :lmao.


:lmao well I uhhh... didn't get around to watching the main event . Sure, I went to a house party yesterday, but still, I had half the day to watch ONE MATCH and still didn't do it . TODAY IT SHALL BE DONE.

Vengeance: Night of Champions 2007 is today's PPV Ramble on my BLOG~! though .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Ric Flair, Tully Blanchard & Arn Anderson vs Sting, Barry Windham & Lex Luger (NWA Main Event 04.03.1988)*

x2ranbg

Really good, fast paced tag match here. Some more time on it and it would have been a classic IMO, 
but it's still pretty fucking good.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Big Cal's World said:


> :lmao well I uhhh... didn't get around to watching the main event . Sure, I went to a house party yesterday, but still, I had half the day to watch ONE MATCH and still didn't do it . TODAY IT SHALL BE DONE.
> 
> Vengeance: Night of Champions 2007 is today's PPV Ramble on my BLOG~! though .


You rating a Chavo match *** 1/2 has me curious. 



> :lmao Flair is bleeding. For no real reason :lmao


This is always gold. :lmao

The WWE Championship match looks odd as fuck too. :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Fancy some prime Flair recs from the 80's please. US/Japan are fine. Apart from the Steamer/Windham matches.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

KENNY said:


> Any thoughts on these would be much appreciated, I'm going to watch soon.
> 
> - Ric Flair vs. Tatsumi Fujinamim (SuperBrawl I)
> - Rey Mysterio vs. Tajiri (No Mercy 2003)
> ...


Mysterio/Tajiri NM 03' is stellar. They have a better match on SD! In January but it's not by a whole bunch, the NM match is friggin great and absolutely worth the watch.

Hardy/Edge Unforgiven is my favorite cage match ever, I think it's a 5-star match, not one single flaw and the work those two put in is unbelievable. Like 80% of the punches thrown are full force, nothing held back strikes. 

Andersons/Rock n Roll is a textbook southern tag, and also a text book Andersons tag. Double heat segments, first on Robert Gibson which is really good then an even better, amazing heat segment on the one and only Ricky Morton. Excellent, excellent match.

Piper/Valentine is a 5-star match IMO, strong contender for best US match of the 80's along with about 5-6 other matches. Should be required viewing for anyone. Piper and Valentine beat the absolute shit out of each other, watch the punches they throw with the chain wrapped around their fist, they hold absolutely nothing back. This match is notorious for Valentine throwing a massive right hand to the side of Pipers head, causing Pipers ear drum to rupture and blood starts pouring out. Doesn't faze Piper, who is as tough as it gets and he battles back tooth and nail all the way.

Great choices my friend 




Hayley Seydoux said:


> Holy shit @ this on paper.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ohhhh, I'll need to see this. Along with that Mschif/Kong match, some of the Toyoda/Aja Kong matches easily qualify for best ever in the women's genre.



KENNY said:


> You rating a Chavo match *** 1/2 has me curious.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Watch Chavo/Rey Rey Great American Bash 04'. That's a ****+ Chavo match, best of his career. Then watch the main event from that show, Eddie/JBL Bullrope, amazing, amazing match. Best Bullrope/chain/strap match in WWE history iMO,


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Brock said:


> Fancy some prime Flair recs from the 80's please. US/Japan are fine. Apart from the Steamer/Windham matches.


Have you seen the kerry Von Erich match from Hawaii 1985 ? Probably Naitch's most underrated match ever as it's perfection and never talked about 


Steamboat -All Japan 1982 is another (as it's different then the 89 and 94 matches)

Edit: the jumbo and Tenyu matches are amazing as well


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*One Night Stand Extreme Rules 2008*

Just like Vengeance Night of Champions from 07, this PPV gets TWO names! Why? Because WHY NOT?


*Jeff Hardy Vs Umaga - Falls Count Anywhere Match*

I wonder if this is the match I seem to think it is. If it is, it has the dumbest finish ever, and a bunch of shit before it .

Umaga? SMASH!

Well, the seem to be battling away from the ring... which makes it likely to be the match I remember.

:lmao Jeff Hardy threw a fucking plastic traffic cone at Umaga, and Umaga just fires back with a kick to the face, because who the fuck would get hurt by that? :lmao

Oh god here it comes... Jeff slides down the stair rail and clotheslines Umaga. Just... no.

They spend some time throwing each other into walls and onto tables and it all looks like shit. It's basically them slapping objects with their hands as they pretend to hit their head on shit.

Outside now, and yeah, it most definitely IS the match I was expecting.










That was the finish. And we are supposed to believe that Umaga fell on concrete and Hardy dove off onto him.

Hate everything about this.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*CM Punk Vs John Morrison Vs Chavo Guerrero Vs Tommy Dreamer Vs The Big Show - Spingapore Cane Match*

YES! :mark: I forgot this match was on THIS show. If I don't find it fun any more, then I truly do have no soul.

BIG SHOW VS THE WORLD :mark:. And the world is losing!!! Big Show totally rules in this kind of environment. 

Everyone kicking the shit out of Big Show :mark:. In punk and Morrison's case, it was quite literally KICKING :mark:.

With Big Show... kinda down, everyone else climbs the ropes and grabs a cane! 4 on 1 cane action!!! :mark:

:lmao Chabo decks... some sports dude in the crowd with a cane :lmao. Punk hands him a cane and lets him get some revenge on Chabo!!! I don't know who the fuck that guy is, but he's the most awesome sports guy ever for beating up Chabo! Well, not quite as awesome as Ricky Hatton when he knocked out Chabo at a Raw taping I went to :mark:.

The Jiz shows up to save Morrison from getting murdered by Show, and gets taken out :lmao. Show picks up the steel steps... but ends up going head first into them instead!

Everyone in the ring is trying to kill everyone else with a cane :mark:. My god this is so fucking fun. Even though I don't like most of the guys in the match! Let's face it, if you can't have a fun match by hitting people with a stick then you suck at pro-wrestling.

FUCK ME Big Show has a HUGE gash in his head. I seem to remember that he legitimately fucked himself up on that steel steps spot. But it makes for great TV (or rather, PPV) so :mark:.

The giant is bleeding, and that's BAD NEWS for everyone else cos he's angry as fuck :mark:.

Bam Neely, that nobody who was with Chabo for a while, gets decked first. Jiz next. Then Morrison :mark:.

SPANKING CM PUNK LIKE A SCHOOL BOY~! :lmao I don't even wanna ask where that came from, Adamle...

EVERYONE IS DEAD~! Big Show is awesome.

:lmao Dreamer gets chokeslammed, then Show helps him to his feet again and applauds... then grabs a cane, smiles, and cracks Tommy in the head :lmao. The Big Show doesn't just win this match, he DOMINATES it :mark:.

Better than every original ECW match ever.

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


*JBL Vs John Cena - First Blood Match*

Huh, totally don't remember this match ever existing. I remember their I Quit match in 05, and their parking lot brawl from the 08 GAB... but this? No idea.

Match starts with both men exposing... a turnbuckle 8*D.

First blood matches are kinda dumb really, aren't they? Like, in real life, a couple of punches to the face at most and the other guy is gonna be busted wide open .

:lmao what the fuck??!










:lmao

JBL is concentrating on Cena's head, which is pretty much what everyone does in these types of matches. Nice punches from John, and love his BIG BOOT :mark:.

Watching JBL hit Cena in the head can only be fun for so long before it gets... boring. Then Cena makes a small comeback and tries... an F-U. Because THAT will bust Cena open... fecking moron.

Fuck me. Cena gets the chance to take a break and get a weapon to aid him... and what does he get? Steel chair? Metal pipe? NOPE. A fucking microphone. Dumbshit.

EXPOSED TURNBUCKLE~! Aaaand it fails to bust Cena open. Ah well. What a waste of time.

:lmao JBL goes for a Clothesline from Hell. THAT ISN'T GOING TO WIN YOU THE MATCH YOU BLEB.

Now, a steel chain wrapped in his towel that he brings to the ring? That'll work! Though why hide it? Why wait until now to use it?

F-U~! And somehow JBL ISN'T BLEEDING. I'm shocked. And I know all of you are too.

:lmao now JBL has a fucking BULL WHIP :lmao. And instead of using it, what does JBL do? Walks over to Cena and gets close enough to be kneed in the balls.

STFU WITH THE CHAIN~! Referee rings the bell and at first I thought he got confused but apparently JBL is bleeding from the mouth.

I think I need to be hit in the head with a metal object so I forget this match.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Batista and Orton are backstage talking. Orton is trying to convince Batista to join him should they both get drafted to the same show in a few weeks. Batista just walks off :lmao.


*Beth Phoenix Vs Melina - I Quit Match*

A diva I Quit match? Huh. I think I'll give this one a go, see what it's like.

:lmao one of Melina's paparazzi falls over :lmao.

Beth gets in Melina's face at the start to try and intimidate her, so Melina shoves her away and locks in a guillotine choke submission! She ain't going down easy (this time, anyway 8*D )!!!

Beth powers the fuck out of the submission though and now she's starting to work over Melina :mark:.

:mark: Melina keeps fighting back and locks in an awesome submission that I can't remember the name of :mark:. Beth just looks fucking ANGRY and drags them both to the ropes to break the hold :mark:.

ASK HER~!

:lmao the referee asking Beth to KEEP IT CLEAN. In a fucking I QUIT MATCH :lmao.

THE ARM HAS BEEN BARRED~!

Damn, Beth is fucking insane. Mauling Melina here, and it rules :mark:.

MELINA KICKS BETH IN THE ARSE AND SENDS HER SHOULDER FIRST INTO THE RING POST~!

Arm work by Melina!

Beth keeps trying to power out, but Melina turns it into a cross arm breaker instead!!!

And it ends up getting reversed into a RUNNING POWERBOMB :mark:. Beth is a fucking POWERHOUSE. And Melina is great at taking these bumps and making everything look BRUTAL.

GLAM SLAM~! I think? And from there she grabs her head and bends Melina BACKWARDS :mark:. Melina tries to hold on, but ends up HAVING to quit.

Man, what a match!!! Might actually be one of the best I Quit matches in the company's history.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


MICKIE JAMES~! Bah, it's that stupid Cena love story thing they tried lol. ADAMLE~! He burst out of the bathroom and ruins the private time for Cena and Mickie :lmao.


*Shawn Michaels Vs Batista - Stretcher Match*

Shawn retired Flair at WM. Batista was pissed off. They had a match. HBK faked an injury to win. Batista was more pissed off. So now they are having a stretcher match.

Right from the start, Batista uses his POWAH to take control of HBK. I like how the first thing he does on the outside is remove the padding from the stretcher. He HATES Shawn Michaels right now, so he doesn't want any padding to save HBK from some PAIN :mark:.

Fuck me, less than 5 minutes into the match and HBK is pissing me off :lmao. He manages to get Batista down, then spends a stupid amount of time playing with the steel steps... only to sit Batista on one part of them in the end so he can RAM THE STETCHER INTO HIM. Oh and he put the padding back on before he did it :lmao.

Second straight match to feature the guillotine choke submission :mark:. At least THAT was a smart move from Shawn; make Batista pass out and then wheel him over the line.

:mark: SPINEBUSTER ON THE APRON :mark:. Sure, Kevin Owen's apron Powerbomb looks better and more brutal, but the SPINEBUSTER was still awesome.

Wow, who is that referee? I can't remember his name, but damn, he is looking FAT here lol.

:lmao Shawn is setting up Sweet Chin Music, but pretty much just RUNS at Batista, so it was obvious as fuck it was getting countered :lmao.

Batista attempts a Batista Bomb over the ropes, but Shawn escapes, hits the superkick, and THE ANIMAL falls out of the ring right onto the stretcher!!!

HBK tries his best to take advantage of the superkick, but try as he might, Batista is too ANGRY AND POWERFUL. 

BATISTA BOMB~!

Batista places HBK on the stretcher, but CHRIS JERICHO shows up to try and MOTIVATE the Heart Break Kid! Shawn gets off the stretcher!!! This match is continuing!!!

:lmao HBK tries a Super Kick but he's too fucked to do any damage. Pretty awesome moment to be honest.

:mark: I DON'T LOVE YOU, AND I'M NOT SORRY :mark:.

BATISTA BOMB PART II~!

Shawn is DONE, but again Jericho shows up to "motivate" his "friend" to try and continue the match!!! SPINEBUSTER ON THE STEEL STEPS~! This time is IS over!!!

Ya know what, I really liked this. I don't remember my thoughts on the match before, but I have a feeling I probably didn't think much of it on last watch. But this time I loved it. Batista was getting revenge for his friend Flair being retired at WM and revenge for himself for being screwed in the previous match against Shawn. He fucking KILLS Shawn. The Jericho stuff was good too, setting up their big feud.

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


*Triple H Vs Randy Orton - WWE Championship Last Man Standing Match*

These two men seem to love having LMS matches against each other. And they tend to turn out well too, which is surprising considering how much they tend to SUCK in matches against each other.

This match though? Well... ummmm... just wait and see .

Orton gets thrown into the steel steps about 10 seconds into the match and looks to have hurt is shoulder. Probably just Orton selling it really well .

SHOULDER RIGHT INTO THE STEEL POST~!

SHOULDER RIGHT INTO THE STEEL POST AGAIN~!

Damn, HHH looks like he genuinely wants to injure Orton's shoulder in this match :side:.

Orton mounts some offence, then goes for an RKO on the floor... but HHH counters by pushing him shoulder first into the ring post!!! That poor shoulder of Orton. If HHH isn't careful he's gonna fuck it up for real :side:.

RKO~! NO! TRIPLE H COUNTERED AND SENT ORTON TO THE OUTSIDE~! ORTON LANDS ON HIS SHOULDER~! Aaaand breaks his collar bone :lmao. I know it's not "funny" but fuck me, HHH was out to destroy that shoulder the entire match, and accidentally does it for real :lmao.

SLEDGEHAMMER~! Orton is dead. Match is over.

Well, it's a shame the injury had to happen and they had to improvise a finish, because before the injury this was fecking GREAT. I mean really fucking great. HHH was out to kill Orton and everything he did looked nasty and awesome. Orton sold well, and everything he did looked great too. I also like that for a LMS match, the first count came from a DDT ON THE FLOOR and not a shitty scoop slam or some bullshit that everyone knows would never end the match unless it was a scoop slam off a fucking building through 10 tables. So yeah, real shame it had to end like it did because another 10 minutes of this and it could have easily topped their No Mercy 07 match.

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


*The Undertaker Vs Edge - World Heavyweight Championship TLC Match*

If The Undertaker loses, he will be BANISHED FROM THE WWE~! So, no way he's losing, right? 

*sigh*

This match, man. This match. Never liked it. Even watching it live I was able to call the spots before they happened. When a match is THAT obvious then something is wrong lol.

Undertaker setting up a bunch of tables together piled on top of each other. Bet we won't see that come back to haunt him later on in the match :side:. Seriously, what is the logic, kayfabe wise, behind stacking tables up?

Ok, so TWO ladders are in the ring. Set up flat on opposite turnbuckles. Instead of like, USING ONE OF THEM... Undertaker goes outside for a THIRD LADDER to set up and climb in an attempt to win the fucking match. BUT ITS OK COS THE OTHER LADDERS WAS USEDED IN TEH SPOTZ~! Fuck right off.

:lmao Undertaker has a look on his face just after that like "why the fuck did I agree to this match?" :lmao. Kinda wish Undertaker was only involved in the ONE ladder match. Would be much better for his legacy to have one awesome ladder match in his 30+ year career rather than one awesome ladder match and this utter shite TLC bollacks.

Edge just hit Undertaker with a SPEAR. His FINISHER. In the middle of the ring. Right next to a ladder that is set up. So what does Edge do? PUSHES THE LADDER OVER. If hitting your finisher isn't a good time to climb a ladder that is ALREADY SET UP then I don't know what is.

Edge's jobber friends show up to help out when Edge gets Chokeslammed on a ladder. At least SIX tables are already set up outside. So what do they do? Get TWO MORE from under the ring. I swear this match was designed for no other reason than to annoy me.

Ahh, well at least we know why ONE of the tables wasn't brought into the ring... Undertaker had to chokeslam someone through it!

Wow and another of those tables gets used up too! Phew, good job the jobber guys didn't grab those instead, huh? Would have COMPLETELY ruined the SPOTZ~!

While Undertaker is dealing with those jobbers, Edge takes this opportunity to... set up 2 stacked tables... right next to the ladder he climbs up afterwards. OMG WHAT A SURPRISE UNDERTAKER GIVES HIM A LAST RIDE OFF THE LADDER THROUGH THE STACKED TABLES!!! FUCK. OFF. NOW.

More Edge jobber friends show up. Unsure how Undertaker is gonna deal with them because there are no more tables set up... except for those 4 stacked up but I have a feeling those are for later :side:.

Undertaker takes care of the other jobbers... then climbs a ladder that isn't exactly under the belt. In fact, it's a little too close to the ropes... near those stacked tables. Hmmm... I wonder...

Oh, Edge knocks Undertaker off the ladder and through the stacked tables and wins the belt and Undertaker has to leave the WWE until SummerSlam.

My least favourite Undertaker match ever. Or at least it's tied with the HIAC against Bossman in 1999.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 13*​


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Skins said:


> Have you seen the kerry Von Erich match from Hawaii 1985 ? Probably Naitch's most underrated match ever as it's perfection and never talked about
> 
> 
> Steamboat -All Japan 1982 is another (as it's different then the 89 and 94 matches)
> ...


Havn't seen any of those TBH. 

What are the dates for those Jumbo/Tenryu matches? The one from 82?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I like how you bring doubt upon Jeff Hardy doing a senton onto concrete like TNA won't expect him to take that spot before the next UK tapings.

... if TNA still exist, anyway.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if they did that (if they survive), given what happened this year .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Big Cal's World said:


> :lmao yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if they did that (if they survive), given what happened this year .


I remember seeing a Hardy match from TNA, believe it was against Angle, and Hardy does a top rope Swanton to the outside directly onto the concrete. What was so funny about it was, the crowd literally didn't pop or react in anyway, because it was such a fucking retarded spot that they didn't even understand what they had just seen. Like, no "Ohhhhh" or "Ahhhh" from anyone, not even a peep, it was that friggin dumb.

Oh and Cal, I don't agree with your comment that that Singapore Cane match was better than every original ECW match ever. For one, Tajiri vs Psichosis in 2000 is absolutely phenomenal, everyone should see that match I have it as easily ****1/4+. The others are a 2/3 Falls match between Rey and Juvented, and also atleast one if not more of those Rey/Psichosis matches are definitely better. So there 

Oh, and the Benoit/Snow match was probably better too


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ric Flair vs Kerry Von Erich (Hawaii)
Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat (6/4/82)
Ric Flair vs Jumbo Tsuruta (6/8/83)
Ric Flair vs. Kerry Von Erich (2/3 falls) 8/15/82
Ric Flair vs. Lex Luger (Starrcade 1988)
Ric Flair vs. Genichiro Tenryu (AJPW, 09/12/84)

Think these are the right dates. RE: My request for some of the best 80's Flair matches.  (Apart from the Steamer/Windham ones)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not into the Tajiri/Psichosis matches as much as everyone else. Absolutely hate pretty much every Rey Mysterio match I've seen in ECW. SO THERE!!!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Brock said:


> Ric Flair vs Kerry Von Erich (Hawaii)
> Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat (6/4/82)
> Ric Flair vs Jumbo Tsuruta (6/8/83)
> Ric Flair vs. Kerry Von Erich (2/3 falls) 8/15/82
> ...


Sorry just got back, yelp those are the dates, if that Von Erich match is the Cage match, I'd skip it


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

(Y)

Not from the 80's, but there are also a couple of great looking tags i still need to check out too from COTC:

Ric Flair & Arn Anderson vs. Hollywood Blondes 
Ric Flair & Barry Windham vs Midnight Express


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I know Cal thinks saying that about ECW will get a rise out of me but he's dead wrong. I JUST WON'T SUB TO YOUR CHANNEL. 



Brock said:


> Fancy some prime Flair recs from the 80's please. US/Japan are fine. Apart from the Steamer/Windham matches.


Flair/Race 8/31/83
Flair/Terry Taylor 6/1/85
Flair/Reed 8/10/85
Flair/Wahoo BOTB 9/2/85
Flair/Koko 11/18/85
Flair/Jake Roberts 11/24/85
Flair/Morton GAB 7/5/86
Flair/Dusty GAB 7/26/86
WarGames GAB 7/4/87
Flair/Sting v. Muta/Slater Clash 9/12/89
Flair/Windham v. Gilbert/Luger Main Event 3/25/89

I left off a LOOOOOT of matches, partly due to repeats from same opponents, partly due to some matches are long and it might take you a while to watch them all, partly because it's Ric Flair and recommending every match from his 80s worth watching would give me arthritis from typing. This is some of what I'd say is his best stuff (and some "just very good", like the 89 tags which aren't next to his "best", but overlooked, I think. The tag with Sting especially I thought was a top 50 WCW match). I'd recommend basically everything on the Mid-South and Memphis sets, really.




> Ric Flair & Barry Windham vs Midnight Express


Also this is from the 80s unless there's another match I don't know about. Clash IV, 12/7/88.


Flair/Kerry from Hawaii is 10/12/85


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:lmao

I'll check out that Beth/Melina match, looks good. 

I watched Matt Hardy vs Edge from Unforgiven 2005. Wow, that was some match. **** 1/2 and probably the best win of Matt Hardys career.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Also a really good Wahoo/Flair match from 7/86 I want to say, it's like 15 mins long


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I remember seeing a Hardy match from TNA, believe it was against Angle, and Hardy does a top rope Swanton to the outside directly onto the concrete. What was so funny about it was, the crowd literally didn't pop or react in anyway, because it was such a fucking retarded spot that they didn't even understand what they had just seen. Like, no "Ohhhhh" or "Ahhhh" from anyone, not even a peep, it was that friggin dumb.


iirc that is the infamous 30 minute "draw" fuckfest from No Surrender 2010. Omg :lmao



Big Cal's World said:


> Not into the Tajiri/Psichosis matches as much as everyone else.


You son of a...

wait, not supposed to get a rise out of us. ohhhhhhhh. _(SI needs to return to see this)_

btw Cal, Tajiri vs Corino. That's better than the (awesome) 5 way cane match too. Just agree to disagree as long as Tajiri is involved.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

If you need some help with where to start, I say Flair/Wahoo from Botb 1985 is a damn good place. It's a 2/3 Falls bout, absolutely classic. That and the Kerry Von Eri h match from Hawaii are prob the best from his Non-Funk//Steamer/Windham matches..


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Marathoning every chamber match in anticipation of EC. Will probably do the same for MITB in two weeks, yey spotfests! :hb

Sidenote: who's fucking brilliant idea was it to have the EC and MITB PPVs 2 weeks before/after each other? Or to have any PPV 2 weeks after the last? Oh wait... :vince5:vince5:vince5


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The gimmick PPV hard-on is what we're always stuck questioning each year. Pardon MITB's "big deal" premise for being an early Summer staple actually working _(the case does need a year time-frame, after all)_ the rest of the "brilliant" ideas leaves us to wonder if there will ever be a Steel Cage or HIAC match that will matter in the years to come.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Huganomics said:


> Marathoning every chamber match in anticipation of EC. Will probably do the same for MITB in two weeks, yey spotfests! :hb
> 
> Sidenote: who's fucking brilliant idea was it to have the EC and MITB PPVs 2 weeks before/after each other? Or to have any PPV 2 weeks after the last? Oh wait... :vince5:vince5:vince5


Damn dude, you're gonna be burnt the fuck out come next Sunday. The Chamber matches come on and you're gonna be like 'ugh, another fucking one of these?" :lol It would lose its luster if I did that, but good luck!

As a fan, I'm loving the fact that we get THREE ppvs in a 6 week span. 2-3 Rollins defenses, two Elimination Chamber matches, at least one MITB ladder match (could be two, who knows), and the total oddball booking like Cena vs. Owens that you know only came about because they had to throw something big together to sell another ppv. Imagine how much money they're making too. 

After MITB there's a 5 week period before Battleground, so it'll be back to normal. There's also a 5 week period between Night of Champions and Hell in a Cell, so HOPEFULLY they can build something and have it actually deliver at the PPV (not like Ambrose/Rollins that they completely fucked).


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> You son of a...
> 
> wait, not supposed to get a rise out of us. ohhhhhhhh. _(SI needs to return to see this)_
> 
> btw Cal, Tajiri vs Corino. That's better than the (awesome) 5 way cane match too. Just agree to disagree as long as Tajiri is involved.


I'm going to watch the cane match right now just b/c I don't remember it and now will remember it so I will have the lifetime opinion of it not being as good as Tajiri/Psicosis, Tajiri/Corino, Tajiri/Crazy x umpteen, Tajiri/Guido/Crazy, Scorpio/Douglas, the M-Pro guy tags, and ECW's other best stuff.


Angle/Hardy might legit be the worst match of all time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dreamer vs Lawler makes the list, as far as more non-Tajiri essentials. Have you seen that? Didn't hit me until I relived the show sometime either late last year or a few months ago that it's fabulous. I'm also very pro a Bigelow vs Douglas match from November 2 Remember '97. iirc that's the show. PPV was in Pittsburgh so the aura behind it was interesting given Douglas was mad over & was fully demolished like a super mega babyface would be.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Think I've only seen Lawler/Dreamer in clips.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I know Cal thinks saying that about ECW will get a rise out of me but he's dead wrong. I JUST WON'T SUB TO YOUR CHANNEL.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


(Y)

Thanks a lot for those. I should have most, if not all, of those at my disposal to watch.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I remember seeing a Hardy match from TNA, believe it was against Angle, and Hardy does a top rope Swanton to the outside directly onto the concrete. What was so funny about it was, the crowd literally didn't pop or react in anyway, because it was such a fucking retarded spot that they didn't even understand what they had just seen. Like, no "Ohhhhh" or "Ahhhh" from anyone, not even a peep, it was that friggin dumb.


Just as well, as that spot meant nothing. Twist of Fate and a ridiculous Swanton leads to Angle being on top when they get back into the ring after a count of 9. :lmao

I'm currently watching the match now, after *Yeah1993* called it the worst match ever. The structure of the match certainly killed the crowd. Angle hits a vicious powerbomb minutes into it and just postures around without following it with a pin or continued attack. It isn't as if _his career was on the line_. Trading finishers, signatures and high spots in the first third is just Angle to a tee. Hardy's clearly intoxicated, and blowing pretty much every big spot he attempts or bumps in a dangerous fashion. Angle's trying to pique the crowd with an Ankle Lock and Hardy just rolls over and scoots off like there's no strength or legitimacy to Angle's finisher. Not that there is, when the match has a 16-minute "finishing run" style. 


EDIT: I can't. :lmao The end idea for the first 20 minutes is to have Hardy not tap to the Angle Lock. Fine. But Kurt applies it MORE THAN THREE MINUTES before the bell is meant to ring. Jeff "writhes" in agony by staring into the sky, listless, most probably tripping balls, wondering where he is.

EDIT: Dixie Carter loudly exclaiming "WHAT?" at there being a time-limit. It's your promotion, you daft cunt, how did you not know it was a ruling? :lmao

EDIT: FIVE MORE MINUTES! Why not just not have a fucking time-limit _if you need a winner_? Why did I ever question Yeah1993 or the probable reality in the worst match to ever happen coming from the worst promotion to ever exist? I give up, I cannot finish this match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If that was your first time seeing it, I'm kind of envious. That level of laughter/hate/disgust/misery/confusion I had is something I would want to come back. One of a kind.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If I'm not mistaken, that was the match where I decided to just STOP having any kind of "Kurt Angle lacks common sense in matches" conversations (aka ANGLE GOTS NO SICOLAGY~!). I was genuinely stressed out watching the match :lmao. Posted about it in the TNA section and well, I'm sure you can guess what the response was .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I bet when I shat on Angle vs Anderson from Lockdown 2010, I got more heat. 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hey, I shat on that match too ya know! AND the entire MCMG/Beer Money series!


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I can't believe I almost gave up on the final few minutes (skipped thinking it would be a final limit draw). Angle being declared incapable of competing due to his cut being too deep was hilarious considering both facts that he had returned from the blade-spot IMMEDIATELY ON OFFENCE and that his cut had already stopped bleeding by the time the announcement was being made.


Who was TNA booker in 2010? "Russo, Ed Ferrara, Matt Conway, and Jeremy Borash" according to some Hogan interview.


WAIT, they had a rematch on free TV and went to another draw ensuring both were added to the BFG main event? :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The free match was on the immediate Impact following the PPV. What only adds to the hilarity was that Ken Anderson vs D'Angelo Dinero main evented, FOLLOWING the 30 minute draw on the PPV :lmao

The crowd was dead for Jeff Hardy vs Kurt Angle. Imagine how fired up they were for the two actual, by reality, WWE rejects?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Angle/Hardy going like sextuple overtime because they "needed" a winner only to end w/ a no contest because Angle scratched his forehead too hard is the greatest piece of storytelling in a wrestling match you will ever see.


Seabs' write-up of it back when it happened still might be my favourite write-up of a wrestling match I've read:



Spoiler: hdsika






> Kurt Angle vs Jeff Hardy - No Surrender 2010
> 
> Fucking hell. I went into it knowing I wouldn't like it because I read of all the stupid TNA shenanigans in the match but a lot of people had been saying up to that point it was a brilliant wrestling match. Fuck off btw. This is legit one of the worst matches I have ever had to sit through.
> 
> ...







Remember when Seabs always wrote "ludicrous" as "ludacris"? I could never tell if that was intentional. 


I used to think the Angle/Anderson cage was bad - and still do - but it's so overshadowed by the Hardy match I always forget it even exists. It's like the bizarro world version of that awesome SD 2006 6-man.



Brock said:


> (Y)Thanks a lot for those. I should have most, if not all, of those at my disposal to watch.


I should have whichever you might not. I can upload it/them.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

What's the awesome 2006 SD 6-Man match? I found this match on THE LIST:

Lashley/Cena/Batista vs. King Booker's Court (9/29): ***1/2

This match was pretty awesome mainly because it really signified the transition from Cena becoming a ho-hum wrestler to a legitimately good wrestler. Cena's selling of his elbow while Finlay and Regal yank it apart was a sight to behold. And unlike most of his other limbwork-related matches that year, Cena continued to sell the elbow throughout the match. One of my favorite Cena performances, and he was able to cover for two terrible teammates.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Benoit/Rey/Lashley v. JBL/Orton/Finlay 2/24

I remember full-watching 06 SD in 2012 and stopping around SummerSlam. I should just start again and make a LIST one day.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I should have whichever you might not. I can upload it/them.


Looked today, and i seem to have them all. Didn't think i had the Race one, but after doing some Googling, seems to be on the Flair Definitive/Ultimate Official release. Havn't got the Battle Of The Belts match either, but im grabbing it on disc so ill watch it when i have it.

Also, just watched this:

*Koko Ware vs. Ric Flair (11/18/85) (Memphis)*






Koko was great here and Flair, being NWA champion, put him over really well IMO and gave him a lot, including the first 1/4 of the match.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Benoit/Rey/Lashley v. JBL/Orton/Finlay 2/24
> 
> I remember full-watching 06 SD in 2012 and stopping around SummerSlam. I should just start again and make a LIST one day.


Just watched, wow, you telling me that crowd is from Richmond, Virginia? WTF???

Great match, ****1/4 in my books, SD! 2006-2007 is the best wrestling TV I've ever seen. Finlay was just superb, even Lashley looked better here that what I remembered.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i think someone mentioned a Eddie/JBL rope match to me in here before? how many matches did they have, and what ones were the best? 

survivor series 2004 has me curious. i remember watching it all the way back then, might give that a re watch. 

WWE Cruiserweight Title Four Way Dance (Recommended, Meltzer: ***1/4, CAGEMATCH users: 6.36)
Spike Dudley (c) vs. Billy Kidman vs. Chavo Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio

Intercontinental Title Match (Recommended, Meltzer: ***1/2, CAGEMATCH users: 6.60)
Shelton Benjamin (c) vs. Christian (w/Tyson Tomko)

Winners Gain One Month Control Of RAW Survivor Series Eight Man Tag Team Elimination Match (Recommended, Meltzer: ***1/4, CAGEMATCH users: 6.08)
Batista, Edge, Gene Snitsky & Triple H (w/Ric Flair) vs. Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Maven & Randy Orton

for those alone^

oh and

Singles Match
Heidenreich (w/Paul Heyman) vs. The Undertaker

:lol


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Eddie/JBL had a match at Judgment Day '04, a Texas Bullrope Match at GAB '04, and a Steel Cage Match on Smackdown. IIRC all of them are pretty great, although I don't really remember much from the cage match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Survivor Series 04 is a great show (mostly). Main event elimination tag is spectacular. Christian/Shelton rules. And guess what? Undertaker/Heidenreich is AWESOME.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Fighter Daron said:


> Just watched, wow, you telling me that crowd is from Richmond, Virginia? WTF???
> 
> Great match, ****1/4 in my books, SD! 2006-2007 is the best wrestling TV I've ever seen. Finlay was just superb, even Lashley looked better here that what I remembered.


Mmm, ill have to check this one out i think. Been in the mood for multi man tags tbh.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If anyone needs anything from SD 06 or 07, let me know. I can have it uploaded in virtually no time at all :mark:.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i'd like 06. i remember that being a good year. 

feel like watching the jbl/eddie rope match, i think i remember it. can't remember the other two much though. might chuck on survivor series 2004 first


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Fighter Daron said:


> Marufuji has become very lazy recently and it well really be that he's just fucked up. If you wanna see something good from him, my advice is to see these matches:
> 
> - Naomichi Marufuji vs Akira Taue - NOAH Navigate For Evolution 03/05/06
> - Naomichi Marufuji vs Prince Devitt - 23.12.2009 / 30.01.2010 / 19.06.2010
> ...


Watched the first two Marufuji vs. Devitt matches that you listed, and they were really good. The second one was absolutely fantastic. I love how there's so much thought put into some of their moves and sequences. The sequence where they were choking each other out with their own arms was great. Here, people just put that on each other without much thought into the transitions.

Also loved that submission move where Marifuji took Devitt straight down. Devitt's flying crossbody to the outside was beautiful, and I love how you could tell that Marifuji really caught him. Shame Devitt almost killed himself on that Swanton Bomb earlier, lol.

Marifuji is the master at stuff on the apron. Always looks vicious, and he always seems to be coming up with surprising and innovative moves in general throughout matches in general.

It is incredible just how much American wrestlers have ripped off Japanese wrestlers. Pretty much every cool move seems to have started there. We give credit to wrestlers with "innovative" movesets here, but it seems to all be taken from Japan.

Do you have that third Marifuji/Devitt match? Can't find it anywhere. Same with Naomichi Marufuji vs Katsuhiko Nakajima - 11.02.2010.

Will be watching the rest of your list as well as Bruce L's ASAP!

Btw, this was really good:


> 7/16/06 Takeshi Morishima/Takeshi Rikio vs. KENTA/Naomichi Marufuji ****1/2 [Meltzer's rating]


For those who like fatties, this was a fun match, and KENTA's intensity was great.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> Btw, this was really good:
> 
> For those who like fatties, this was a fun match, and KENTA's intensity was great.


I actually uploaded that match a while back:

*KENTA & Naomichi Marufuji vs WILD 2 (Morishima & Rikio) (NOAH 07.16.2006)*

x21ubk9

An excellent tag indeed.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

That third match is on Dominion, one of the 5 most important shows in NJPW all year, so it should be easy to find, but I don't have it. I'm really glad you liked it.


----------



## bambamgordy (Feb 3, 2015)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Eddie/JBL had a match at Judgment Day '04, a Texas Bullrope Match at GAB '04, and a Steel Cage Match on Smackdown. IIRC all of them are pretty great, although I don't really remember much from the cage match.


Pretty sure in this match Guerrero had the match won by escaping the top of the cage, but then decided to frog splash JBL from the top of the cage instead. Don't remember the finish but JBL won. I remember that pissing me off back then.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

bambamgordy said:


> Pretty sure in this match Guerrero had the match won by escaping the top of the cage, but then decided to frog splash JBL from the top of the cage instead. Don't remember the finish but JBL won. I remember that pissing me off back then.


Eddie did do a frog splash off the top of the cage, which JBL said in an interview nearly killed him :lmao. Eddie then tried to climb over the top of the cage to win but Angle came out in a mask and interfered, preventing Eddie from climbing over the top and allowing JBL to escape and win. This set the appallinly bad Angle/Eddie match from Summerslam 04'. That match might be just as bad as that horrendous No Surrender Hardy/Angle match we've been discussing. Amazing that Angle could make Eddie in his prime have a match that bad.

All the Eddie//JBL matches are pretty damn awesome, you can watch all 3 of them in a little over an hour, great way to spend about 70 minutes iMO. My ratings for them are:

Judgement Day 04': *****
Great American Bash 04' Bullrope: ****1/4
Smackdown 04' Cage: ***3/4


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cal if you could upload Michaels/Cena from London would be great


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Skins said:


> Cal if you could upload Michaels/Cena from London would be great


I would if I had it, but since it didn't happen on SMACKDOWN in 06 or 07, I can't .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Forgot about KENTA/Marufuji v. Morishima/Rikio. That's probably the best Marufuji match I've seen.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Forgot about KENTA/Marufuji v. Morishima/Rikio. That's probably the best Marufuji match I've seen.


I had never seen a Marufuji match so I watched that Kenta/Marufuji match that someone brought up the other day, the one from 2006 that Meltzer gave ****3/4. Hated it. It was about 25 minutes in when I realized they really hadn't kicked the match into another gear or told any semblance of a story, just kind of a "okay you kick the shit out of me for 5 minutes, now I'll knock you into the barricade and beat on you for a few minutes, then it'll be your turn again." Those are the kind of matches I can never get into, I need SOMETHING to draw me in, some sort of story or purpose behind the action being done. Even if it's something as simple as "I'm Jim Duggan, tough SOB Extroidinaire, I hate you Buzz Sawyer, you're a no good coward, here, let me kick the everlasting shit out of you for 15 minutes." That's all I need, and Marufuji/Kenta didn't even give me that. So, in your terms Gheri, "NOT ADDING".


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

What if it's Stan Hansen stiffing a wrestler? You don't need a story to enjoy that.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I had to go back and read whatever I might have wrote on that KENTA/Marufuji and it was a few sentences of me being a complete sarcastic asshole. I must've not liked it or somethin'. I did find another post where I said I thought the first 15 minutes weren't bad, I guess (said the January match started off OK too).

IDK if KENTA/Marufuji matches are lacking story so much as they just full of bad selling and Maurufji's often sub-Edge offense. Unless that counts as "lacking story." I do remember their January match where Maurufuji was working KENTA's leg or ribs and just.....stopped. And he was on top the whole time. I don't usually need a story more than "I want to win" (though I like it, I don't need it) and I at least sort of got that from their matches, but........


......... - 32:45 - 33:17.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDdblreZGuY

Seriously?
I'm not going to say it was that bad the whole match (because I don't actually remember), but I remember it being of the same vein.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> What if it's Stan Hansen stiffing a wrestler? You don't need a story to enjoy that.


Stan Hansen stiffing the shit out of someone IS a story in and of itself 



Yeah1993 said:


> I had to go back and read whatever I might have wrote on that KENTA/Marufuji and it was a few sentences of me being a complete sarcastic asshole. I must've not liked it or somethin'. I did find another post where I said I thought the first 15 minutes weren't bad, I guess (said the January match started off OK too).
> 
> IDK if KENTA/Marufuji matches are lacking story so much as they just full of bad selling and Maurufji's often sub-Edge offense. Unless that counts as "lacking story." I do remember their January match where Maurufuji was working KENTA's leg or ribs and just.....stopped. And he was on top the whole time. I don't usually need a story more than "I want to win" (though I like it, I don't need it) and I at least sort of got that from their matches, but........
> 
> ...



Bad selling = no story, atleast that's how I see it. When Finlay works over Matt Hardy's leg for 10 minutes while Hardy sells like a God and mounts a firey comeback at the end while hobbling around like a land mine victim, that's a story in my book. If one guys suplexes a guy onto a guard rail, but the guy who got suplexed doesn't sell it a lick other than for the 10 seconds immediately after it happened, then that's not a story or something that can get me invested in a match. If it happens once in a long match, I can overlook it, but when nothing done has any long term effects, then yea fuck that shit why bother paying attention to anything other than the finish? If nothing has any effect then nothing that is done matters and the only thing that does matter is the outcome. To flip it around, if EVERYTHING done is sold well and has purpose and meaning, then the finish or winner of the match isn't nearly as important as what the actual action in the match was. That's how little Mickey Foley can lose just about every important match and be a bigger star afterwards. 

The difference between actual pro wrestling and two jack offs in speedo's rolling around on a mat is a fine line, and that line is a story aka selling aka psychology. Without it, you might as well go watch the matches over at http://www.ucw-wrestling.com (I found the link to that site via Scott Steiners website bootydaddy.com. Amazing that that is what Scott does these days :lmao)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Holy crap Zack Ryder looked terrific there. Always thought that he was a good wrestler, despite the prejudiced folks that still doubt him.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Big Cal's World said:


> I would if I had it, but since it didn't happen on SMACKDOWN in 06 or 07, I can't .


dude been day drinking all day, srry :hbk1


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

This opening segment of RAW felt like the longest 20 minutes of my life (just started watching RAW).

Don't even feel like watching the rest now.

Why the fuck is the World Champion coming out like some goober behind Steph and H. Why do they have the grand entrance?! Shit is so backwards.

Why the hell are they KILLING Dean with dumb comedy? I could feel the audience's enthusiasm being ripped away by the second. This is what killed him the last time. I remember that dumb comedy shit that Dean was doing with the "Seth" dummy. Still makes me cringe.

Dean is in a position where he could tell them to fuck off and get away with it. USE IT.

This was one of the few times I've seen Seth stumble. You could tell he totally forgot his lines. It's a miracle it doesn't happen more often, since they have him speaking, like, twenty minutes each episode.

That whole exchange was just so painful and long and pointless. _I_ would have been cheering Reigns' appearance, just because that meant that was the end of that.

And we're just twenty minutes in....

RAW was good the past few weeks. Don't know what's happening now. lol @ if this is the time that Rabid Wolverine decided to start watching.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





Bruce L said:


> I agree with Yeah1993's comparison of Marufuji to Angle, but have the exact opposite opinion of what that means. True, you won't find much in their match history of brilliant selling performances, or adequate selling performances, or selling performances. But on the other hand, fuck it: Angle is the fucking truth, and Marufuji is even better. From '03-'10, he was a legit BITW contender, and I will brook no disagreement on this point.
> 
> Every match from Marufuji & KENTA's GHC junior tag title reign is ***3/4 or better (usually better). Same for Marufuji's ROH matches. The 10/29/06 match is ***** by my reckoning. The match where he won the title from Nagata last year was amazing, his defenses against Sekimoto and Sugiura were gold, and the Suzuki match from this year was must-see. You know what, just go to Ditch's sites, search for Marufuji, and get every match that turns up. They're all worth your time.





Fighter Daron said:


> Marufuji has become very lazy recently and it well really be that he's just fucked up. If you wanna see something good from him, my advice is to see these matches:
> 
> - Naomichi Marufuji vs Akira Taue - NOAH Navigate For Evolution 03/05/06
> - Naomichi Marufuji vs Prince Devitt - 23.12.2009 / 30.01.2010 / 19.06.2010
> ...


That Marufuji vs. Kanemoto match was incredible. I knew I was gonna like it from the moment they got in each others' faces. Someone in the Youtube comments section said that it was better than anything that the WWE puts on, and it's so true. Loved the part in the corner where Marufuji was still beckoning & challenging Kanemoto, even though Marufuji was hanging upside down.

Also love how each match I've seen, Marufuji shows something completely different. Love how he started that Kanemoto match with a boxer's footwork. 

I wish I commented right after I watched these matches, because I had a ton of comments, but forgot them now.

At first I was iffy on the Taue match. I could tell that dude was on his last legs, and was probably much better in his younger days. Then, suddenly it became the best thing ever in life. Actually made me giddy. Taue is Harper-ish in a way, in what he can do. 

I adored Marufuji's approach to the whole match, and you could tell that he was working his ass off. 

I literally gasped when he got out of the chokeslam the way that he did. Never seen that before, but it was so natural. 

Also, Marufuji sells stuff GREATLY in the moment (don't know about long-term....I'll take the word of people here that he's apparently a bad seller long-term, but I don't see it, because it seems no different from literally everyone else I've watched, and he does exhaustion really well, IMO). He made that chokeslam look spectacular, with the way that he was still kicking his leg out on the way _down_. 

He also sells the running knee (KENTA's, in this case) better than anyone.

He's also fast as hell, to the point where you barely even see his hand when he gives chops.

He's weird, because he doesn't look athletic at all, but he is extremely. Takes me by surprise all the time, just because he doesn't look it, lol.

Loved the way he lifted his knee in the 2nd Devitt match, like "ah, you didn't get my knee" a little bit after Devitt kept trying to take him down, lol. It was great, because it was one upmanship, but he did it in such a casual, non-showy, way. Right back to business.

Also watched Marufuji vs. Danielson at Final Countdown 2005. Again, Marufuji showed something totally different. He was much more humorous here, and seemed to really enjoy being much more extroverted. Excellent match, especially because I went in not expecting much, because I hadn't heard much about it. 

I've watched maybe 15 of Marufuji's matches now, and I do agree with Bruce L's BITW contendership, based on what I've seen. Obviously I'm mostly watching his recommended matches, so that skews things. Still, his best are more enjoyable to me that many others' best. 

He's tough as nails. Can mix it up believably, and has great intensity. Has the kind of aura that I look for in wrestling, and also is versatile in the type of matches he has, and his approach to different opponents. Terrific moveset, and always is showing new things in each match. Think he's great at selling in the moment, and has sold specific, popular, moves better than anyone else I've seen.

Basically, I think he's _great_. Shrug.

Any other recs would be appreciated. Still working on Bruce L's, but the Nakajima & 3rd Devitt matches I cannot find. Ah well. 

Marufuji vs. Nigel in ROH sounds interesting, but can't find that either.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

DO NOT GET ME DOUBTING WHETHER I WAS FAIR TO *MARUFUJI*. 

NO

Of all the people it had to be fuuuckin Marufuji. What's the bet LilOlMe watches Takayama and thinks he SUCKS?

@Hayley Sexydot CODY CLOSE THIS THREAD I HATE IT.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> "I want to win" (though I like it, I don't need it) and I at least sort of got that from their matches, but........
> 
> 
> ......... - 32:45 - 33:17.
> ...


I hadn't read back, because I didn't want RAW to be spoiled, but this RAW is so bad that I don't care.

How is that sequence any different from that one with the fat bald guy and the young good looking one that I think most people in here praised? Do you know what I'm talking about? lol. Meltzer gave it five stars and it was either this year or last year.

I specifically remember complaining about the lack of selling, but it was one of the first Japanese matches I'd seen since a long time before that, so I had to get more used to the style again. But anyway, people here debated with my point, and the gist of it was that it was two guys trying to out tough each other. There was a point where the dude had white shit coming out of his mouth (cool touch), but then did a series of moves like nothing.

People here had goosebumps. After thinking about it, I took it as a last, desperate, feat of courage. However, IIRC, they were shaking shit off a lot during that match, and people apparently had no problem with that.

I can't re-watch the whole KENTA/Marufuji match right now, but from what I remember, that sequence was of a similar vein. They both got a pop of adrenaline, both like-minded and trying to fight off the effects, until they just couldn't anymore. Then, they laid there dead, completely exhausted.

Shit like that wasn't happening throughout the match. It was a rally, and they were no-selling because it was very mano a mano, fight to the last breath. 

The entire match had that war feeling, so it would make sense that there would come a point where they would put that together all in a row. 

It's not like they were popping up out of shit like that all of the time, so they chose to do that for a very specific reason, IMO.

Is it really that crazy, when in Japan, they are CONSTANTLY no-selling forearms, uppercuts, punches to the face, etc. If we're being realistic, wouldn't that take you down something good? 

It'd make sense for smaller, more technical, wrestlers to shake off a technical move, if they're trying to prove a point that they are the best and the toughest. 

Obviously I'm not talking all the time, but in a specific, planned out sequence like that, deep into the match...that obviously _was_ their form of storytelling, and it was entirely intentional. Not saying you have to like it, just saying it doesn't not make sense to me. And I wrote that in a very Yeah1993 way, btw. 

The "I want to win" aspect is why I loved the match. It had that feeling all the hell all over it, the entire time, and you could tell the audience got it too, by the way they gasped BEFORE Kenta did anything on that ramp.

I can see what Rabid Wolverine is saying about the gears, but that's why it felt like a total war to me. That's how shit is. Sometimes you _can't_ go into another gear. Sometimes it's hell. Just felt very realistic to me, though I can see how some might not find that all that entertaining.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Rusev was freakin' awesome on RAW. Had me lol'ing. I feel like Vince should love him, because he gets the whole Sports Entertainment thing completely. Yet he's also a big brute. He's very good at adlibbing too, btw. I remember when the crowd started "Yes'ing" when Rusev was about to give his announcement about whether he'd give Cena a rematch or not. He was like "well, it's my decision, not yours, you stupid Americans!!!" lmao, was his delivery that was really great.

Also, the way he reacted to the flag botch was just great. IMMEDIATELY acting like it was all John Cena/The Americans plan, and grabbing his flag and acting all outraged. Good stuff.

I feel like Vince probably enjoys him on a personal, fan, level. The fact that they're still keeping Rusev central to everything right now, tells me that Vince doesn't see him as disposal. At least I hope not.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

LilOlMe said:


> How is that sequence any different from that one with the fat bald guy and the young good looking one that I think most people in here praised? Do you know what I'm talking about? lol. Meltzer gave it five stars and it was either this year or last year.


I have no idea what this is.  Haven't seen a puro match since 2012. If it's like the KENTA/Marufuji sequence there is no way in hell I would like it. Funnyfaces wrote in a thread (not this one) not long ago that "we all tolerate some no sellng" and he is completely, totally, correct, but I don't ever think it's OK to do something like that. Some disagree and I'm not trying to persuade anybody to think otherwise, but it's just my least favourite thing. I mean, like, hell, anybody can enjoy whatever, my opinion of anybody won't lower because of the wrestling they like (except Cal). 




LilOlMe said:


> But anyway, people here debated with my point, and the gist of it was that it was two guys trying to out tough each other. There was a point where the dude had white shit coming out of his mouth (cool touch), but then did a series of moves like nothing.


This...is is the kind of stuff I really hate. I really don't care to watch two wrestlers drop each other on the head and then immediately get back up because of 'fighting..spirit' or something. It makes the move look useless. You mentioned you "took it as a last, desperate, feat of courage". Which, I mean, I don't mind, again, I'm not judging. 

And, I mean, there ARE spots in matches where a guy fight through pain and throws something out and I totally buy it. I don;t want to seem hypocritical here but I guess it'c circumstantial. I watched a Rey/Punk recently where Punk ate a couple Rey moves and sprinted at Rey, took him out, and then collapsed to the floor holding his neck (I'll bring this up whenever I next talk about 2010). I'm fine with that. Punk was VERY clearly affected by the move(s), he just didn;t want to eat seven more and saw an opening. I can assume that's what people see when they watch the Marufuji-ish stuff but I never have ('never' as in 'as a whole match' and not 'every individual spot'). I just don't think it should go 30 seconds and have them trading moves that have literally ended big, important matches before. During that German>German>German thing I didn't buy for once second that - if one of the two could keep getting up and hitting Germans - that they couldn't just avoid the German altogether. Or, even get from the Germans but I'm making a different point.




LilOlMe said:


> Then, they laid there dead, completely exhausted.


This part is true, but they just get up and start doing stuff again. It also looked pretty forced and phony to me. The whole sequence I mean. I always bring up how I hate wrestling that looks wayyy too co-operative. I just got the impression of a couple gymnasts putting on a show here. That obviously differs from person-to-person; either you buy it or you don't, I guess. A lot of people can;t watch lucha b/c it looks too choreographed for them. 



LilOlMe said:


> Shit like that wasn't happening throughout the match.
> 
> 
> It's not like they were popping up out of shit like that all of the time, so they chose to do that for a very specific reason, IMO.


I said before that I said a few years ago that I thought the first half was OK, so I can assume 2012 me agrees. Still, I - and, keep in mind I didn;t rewatch the whole thing so I don't want to appear ignorant - watched parts of the finish stretch again. And, yeah, i kind of think it's really bad. Not as bad as the German stuff, but there's was almost nothing between KENTA getting kicked in the head, powerbombed, and then chucking Marufuji out of the ring. Then Marufuji's fall and backflipping out of a German suplex off of the ramp and kicking KENTA in the head again. They get on the apron and trade maybe-suplex/stuff for a bit before KENTA hits huge one on the outside (and to your point before - I did think Maurufji actually sold it really well), then sprung out the ring and stomped him, then springboarded one or two more times, THEN Marufuji was OK to eventually no sell a back-body drop. Then they started doing the Germans. I will fully say that they looked tired as hell. But, I mean, I still didn't think the moves meant anything.




LilOlMe said:


> Is it really that crazy, when in Japan, they are CONSTANTLY no-selling forearms, uppercuts, punches to the face, etc. If we're being realistic, wouldn't that take you down something good?


Kind of lost me on this one. Again I haven't watched CRAP ALL puro this decade and it depends on what you watch, but the stuff I think is good is really not heavy on no-selling forearms and stuff. I dig a chop war now and then but give me Kobashi/Akiyama from 04 and...bleh. Noooooo thanks. I might for some reason give a pass to Manami Toyota but it's so long since I've seen any of that that I can't even specify. I also think Toyota can be terrible, though. 

I re-watch Taue/Williams from 96 a month ago thanks to zep and had a couple selling problems with it. And 1998-1999 All Japan is kind of more no-selly than the peak All Japan (partly why the 'peak' kinda ended at 1/20/97).




LilOlMe said:


> Not saying you have to like it, just saying it doesn't not make sense to me. And I wrote that in a very Yeah1993 way, btw.


Oh, yeah, i'm saying the same thing (but in reverse). I have just passionately hated Marufuji a half-decade. :mark:

I have a "way"? :mark:


Also I deleted it because I forgot, but you brought up that like, IDK 'STUFF' being intentional and put in a specific place. I don't think I disagree at all. I full believe they thought about how/where/why/etc to put it. And the crowd eat that shit up (usually I guess). I just flat out don't think it fits in ANY situation. I don't believe it, essentially. 


I need to leave the house right now in a rush so if I left a sentence unfinished or something I apologize.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Does anyone else have a Paul Heyman promo marathon sometimes? Lately all I've been doing on the WWE Network is watch his promos. The ones I've been going back to constantly was the one when he returned in 2012 shortly after Brock broke Triple H's arm, along with the other ones he did in 2012 and the hilarious 365 celebration with CM Punk where he said Sammartino, Hogan, Austin & The Rock could never beat CM Punk (although the crowd was shit that night so none of those name-drops got a reaction). And also pretty much every Brock Lesnar promo from 2012 - the RAW after WM this year.

Heyman is just such a god on the mic. :banderas I've always been a big fan, but yeah. Oh and also the promos he was doing during the Punk feud in 2013. I remember this funny line where he said "The truth is a lot harder pill to swallow Mr Straight Edge". :lol

And I watched the amazingness of Cesaro/Zayn from NXT ArRIVAL last year. Still too fucking good.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Okay I'm high as a kite and just going to be relaxing and laying down. I'm after matches that fit that mould, i.e easy on the eye, not entirely long, hidden gems, underrated matches. i've got the network still. 






:lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Those two had another stupid/funny fighting segment in 2003. Canadian crowd booed the shit out of that attempt at an "epic" fight, and instead they chanted for Jericho :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Was that the time they have like a 20 minute fight that ended up outside the arena and shit? :lmao


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

So I am going to the Mick Foley comedy show that isn't really a comedy show thingy on Thursday night. Pretty excited for it. It comes with a meet and greet afterwards. I am going to have him sign my Blu Ray. I don't really have any questions for him per se. Just want to tell him how much I love his work. Can anyone think of any questions you'd have for the Micker?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I have a question I bet NOBODY has ever asked him:


DID IT HURT WHEN YOU GOT THROWN OFF THE HELL IN A CELL? 8*D


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*The Undertaker vs CM Punk (Smackdown 09.10.2010)*

video/x2rkr92

@Yeah1993 I know you mentioned you couldn't find this, so here you go. Although you have more than likely watched it by now lol.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> *The Undertaker vs CM Punk (Smackdown 09.10.2010)*
> 
> video/x2rkr92
> 
> ...


That's their best Smackdown match, right? I haven't seen that one and couldn't find it either, thank you


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Brock said:


> @Yeah1993 I know you mentioned you couldn't find this, so here you go. Although you have more than likely watched it by now lol.


I haven't watched it yet but someone did give me a link. Thanks a lot, though.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Big Cal's World said:


> I have a question I bet NOBODY has ever asked him:
> 
> 
> DID IT HURT WHEN YOU GOT THROWN OFF THE HELL IN A CELL? 8*D


Right? Haha seriously. I bet the back drop through the cage at No Way Out 2000 hurt just as bad. That looks nasty. I mean fuck both in the bum. No way!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Oh for goodness sakes, Terry Funk will not wrestle in a Japan tour because of pneumonia. His replacement happens to be the 74 years young brother of his. How is it possible for a blood line to be this tough?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Please tell me Funk wasn't meant to fight Fujiwara, again. There's only so much I can take of seeing my guys broken down and unable to wrestle.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Funk and Fujiwara when the hell did that happen?

edit - whaaaaaaat Funaki too? :mark:


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

THE CONSORTIUM ...WOOOO THE CONSORTIUM WAS ME

AUSTIN TAKES HIS CHAMPIONSHIP :mark:


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

There was another Fujiwara match from 2014, too. Because his body isn't fucked enough, he takes ridiculous bumps in an exploding, barbed-wire deathmatch.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

KENNY said:


> THE CONSORTIUM ...WOOOO THE CONSORTIUM WAS ME
> 
> AUSTIN TAKES HIS CHAMPIONSHIP :mark:


Wow, man, Ric Flair will ever be the best.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rah said:


> There was another Fujiwara match from 2014, too. Because his body isn't fucked enough, he takes ridiculous bumps in an exploding, barbed-wire deathmatch.


The sad thing is I'm more worried for Takayama. 


Combined age of everybody in that match is over 210 years old.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Did anyone see Ambrose/Wyatt from last week's Smackdown? Should I go back and watch it? Will it make my WWE list for this year?  Keep in mind I didn't care for many of their matches of late last year but totally loved their Ambulance match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> DO NOT GET ME DOUBTING WHETHER I WAS FAIR TO *MARUFUJI*.
> 
> NO
> 
> ...


I thought about it, tbhayley. Marufuji vs KENTA matches being brought up and not shat on. Baffling. The use of current Puro matches like something involving Ishii isn't really the same thing in context. It's not "no selling" that's an issue for me in the long run (well, it is, but it's more too it), it's where/why/how + the style of it all. There's been shit Ishii matches. As I mention watching current puro and seeing the apparent point used. The match this year vs Honma can go fuck itself and was awful, for one. It's a touch & go thing. Similar to why Ishii vs Shibata have had like three matches and the only one I liked was the first where it came out of nowhere & became a spectacle in of itself. Also only clocking in at about 12 minutes, so it was a nutty "fuck you, I won't concede, you have to dickhead" sprint, instead of a long-winded forced epic japanese juniors style match.

Wait, Marufuji at BITW level contention was mentioned? Huh. I don't even hate the guy & I'm like sooooooo far away on being w/that statement. _(not that I'm saying it's "wrong" as much as I just don't agree in any capacity.)_



Rah said:


>


Literally skipped this b/c I couldn't mess around seeing Mil Mascaras do his typical trash. THANKS YOU LUCHA FUCK. Only bitter b/c I wanted to see Funk.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

You never watched Mascaras/Destroyer x2?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah sent me a link for one of em iirc. It's fuzzy. I probably tried but ended up not giving it full attention b/c Mil Mascaras was in it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Mil Mascaras is a pretty high candidate for my least favorite wrestler of all time. Can't stand that guy.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Mil Mascaras is a pretty high candidate for my least favorite wrestler of all time. Can't stand that guy.


My least favorite guy that some people do actually like (don't know of anyone who enjoys Mil, he's the shits) is Mr. Kennedy/Anderson. I don't know what, exactly, it is but I cant friggin stand watching him work. Even that No Mercy match with Taker, which everyone seems to love, I fucking hate. He's just the ultimate blah worker for me.

That's not including, of course, guys like Kofi, Carlito, etc who nobody likes.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

How is Terry Funk still alive? Damn!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Terry Funk WILL NEVER DIE~!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think I'm starting to like Kofi. Somebody help me.

Good episode of NXT. Owens with a killer promo to begin with. Best champion we've had since Punk. Bayley/Emma was passable. Shoot Nation is coming so be excited, Steve Williams fans. Blake & Murphy are getting better. Dillinger/Balor was a great squash. Main event was Owens/Crowe. It was a bit too one-sided for my liking, but I thought it was a good match. Kevin Owens once again looks and feels like a star. It's his world, and we are all living in it.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> How is Terry Funk still alive? Damn!


Sure I amplify this by being a massive Terry Funk mark (my goat pick as I've articulated in here numerous times), but the guy really is an incredible individual, and it probably is remarkable he isn't dead. Guy got stuck in the freakin neck with a knife in Corpus Christi (he survived because it was a small blade and apparently Funk didn't fully realize what had happened until he felt dizzy and looked and saw it was a knife he thought it was a dart), famously the barbed wire match where Funk nearly bled to death if the wire stuck a few inches over to a main artery in his neck, the Armarillo territory originated going through/putting guys through the table, those Japan timebomb death matches vs Foley, working WCCW Puerto Rico as a heel is risky enough, moonsaulting into his 50s off ladders, countless deep blade jobs. 

Yet, I theorize that outside of being an absolute legend, I theorize that what keeps Terry around is his extreme veteran smarts in knowing what it takes to get over and largely his goat contending selling ability. Phase 3 Funk's selling of progressive slowness in rising and the painful expressions on his face to the point that after 20 minutes you could think he died and doing things like appealing personally to guys to try and make them feel/look like monsterous shit ala "Mick you don't have to do this" when he worked as Cactus is just brilliant. is just the penultimate of sympathy. *Terry also apparently keeps a rigid cardio regime biking up to 15 miles a day and works out at the gym 2 hours a day as he said on the Ross Report and right now he feels better than he has in some years and he says and in pretty serious fashion when JR asked Funk if he was surprised he would have a bigtime run as late as 1989, Funk replied "I want it to happen at 89 again", which is genuinely one of the best wrestling quotes I've heard in some time. Combine that with when Ross said "you're not going to go off your feet are ya?" and Funk replies "shit I'll go up down side to side backdrops doesn't matter. Ross then joked "Terry no moonsaults at 70" then Terry seriously goes "I might do it. That's not a bad idea". 
*


Longer live the Funker man one of a kind.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WrestlingOracle said:


> Sure I amplify this by being a massive Terry Funk mark (my goat pick as I've articulated in here numerous times), but the guy really is an incredible individual, and it probably is remarkable he isn't dead. Guy got stuck in the freakin neck with a knife in Corpus Christi (he survived because it was a small blade and apparently Funk didn't fully realize what had happened until he felt dizzy and looked and saw it was a knife he thought it was a dart), famously the barbed wire match where Funk nearly bled to death if the wire stuck a few inches over to a main artery in his neck, the Armarillo territory originated going through/putting guys through the table, those Japan timebomb death matches vs Foley, working WCCW Puerto Rico as a heel is risky enough, moonsaulting into his 50s off ladders, countless deep blade jobs.
> 
> Yet, I theorize that outside of being an absolute legend, I theorize that what keeps Terry around is his extreme veteran smarts in knowing what it takes to get over and largely his goat contending selling ability. Phase 3 Funk's selling of progressive slowness in rising and the painful expressions on his face to the point that after 20 minutes you could think he died and doing things like appealing personally to guys to try and make them feel/look like monsterous shit ala "Mick you don't have to do this" when he worked as Cactus is just brilliant. is just the penultimate of sympathy. *Terry also apparently keeps a rigid cardio regime biking up to 15 miles a day and works out at the gym 2 hours a day as he said on the Ross Report and right now he feels better than he has in some years and he says and in pretty serious fashion when JR asked Funk if he was surprised he would have a bigtime run as late as 1989, Funk replied "I want it to happen at 89 again", which is genuinely one of the best wrestling quotes I've heard in some time. Combine that with when Ross said "you're not going to go off your feet are ya?" and Funk replies "shit I'll go up down side to side backdrops doesn't matter. Ross then joked "Terry no moonsaults at 70" then Terry seriously goes "I might do it. That's not a bad idea".
> *
> ...


It's funny, because my 2 picks for GOAT (Flair and Funk) both had excellent outings into their 60's for mainly 1 reason: their selling, which was always beyond elite throughout their careers, reached God like status as they got older. I've said it before in here and I know many have agreed with me, but "Old Man Flair" was my very favorite iteration of the Ric Flair character. His matches in the 80's and 90's were undeniably superior, but his character, my God his character and selling brought me in SO much more during his later years.

Take the cage match with Hunter, for instance. Flairs selling literally makes that match a classic, all by itself. Hunter could have been a god damn broom stick and it would have still been a great match. Flair, gushing blood out of his forehead, screaming obscenities like a lunatic, flipping Hunter off, yelling "Fuck you! I'll kill you you motherfucker!" I mean really, Flair gave ZERO fucks about being edited, he was just being himself and it was glorious. The fact that Hunter was actually really, really good in that match made it transcendent.

Funk was the same way. He had his best outing in a WWE ring at 60, he was the stand out performer in that 6 man tag at ECW ONS 06' while sharing a ring with Foley, Edge, and Dreamer while also being carted out and only being in the match for maybe 8 minutes total. Along with his antics in Memphis, seeing the Funker scream "MICK, please, don't, Mick you're hurting me. OH GOD MY EYE, MY EYE, MY EYE!" While convulsing on the mat is one of my most favorite Funk moments, and it was a wonderful spin on the old Lawler empty arena match spot. This time, Funk gets gouged in the eye just like he did in Memphis, but he does it as a baby face and gets giant bucket loads of sympathy for it instead of malice from the fans like when he did it in Memphis.

So yea, Flair, Funk, and Guerrero are my holy trinity for wresrling deities. Funk will always be in a class almost entirely his own, as long as he is able to move and emote in a ring I'll enjoy watching him do his thing.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I hate Kennedy/Anderson wayyyyyyyyyyyyy more than Kofi. At least I can look Kofi in the face or hear his voice and not get immediately pissed off.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bit random, but i never realized Liger/Pillman had a match the 1991 G1 Finals.  I only just got my hands on the whole tournament, so if anyone wants the match uploaded, i will. (Its an excellent handheld).

Havn't seen the Superbrawl match in forever, but i did watch the other Handheld match they had in Dec 1991 at Meadowlands, which was also really great.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Just in case people didn't know/forgot, there's a very big reason to watch NXT this week:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

What's the big reason? The pic you posted was just Steen against some crappy wrestler 8*D.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Who the hell even is that? RVD?


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

I actually didn't recognise him, I know who it is because I've read the spoilers but :lmao


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

Solomon Crowe aka Sami Callihan.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Seriously? The fuck did he do to his hair?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Someone posted an NXT Best Matches torrent on XWT and it's fucking HUGE. Really looking forward to seeing some stuff from their first couple years.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> My least favorite guy that some people do actually like (don't know of anyone who enjoys Mil, he's the shits) is Mr. Kennedy/Anderson. I don't know what, exactly, it is but I cant friggin stand watching him work. Even that No Mercy match with Taker, which everyone seems to love, I fucking hate. He's just the ultimate blah worker for me.
> 
> That's not including, of course, guys like Kofi, Carlito, etc who nobody likes.


Kennedy is a guy who I just completely forget exists, honestly. I don't have any dislike towards him, in fact I like a couple of his matches from his short WWE run, but I forget he's even a name.  Not much wrestling skill to speak of either.



Yeah1993 said:


> Who the hell even is that? RVD?


:lmao

That's awesome. Pretty sure that match was a squash anyway.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I just shit my pants at what Rah posted. Kind of like "damn, spoiled" but idc.

shit my pants = a positive thing in this regard, btw.

Jheri bringing up Kofi vs Kennedy/Anderson? Huh. I think it is a wash for me. I really do get annoyed anytime I see the fake Jamaican fuck head so he probably wins, actually. HATE. Oh god when he fucking talks. FUCK YOU YOU IDIOT. But then Anderson shows up...Why are these two even in pro wrestling? Worthless cunts.

I'm allowed to go Cornette.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Big Cal's World said:


> What's the big reason? The pic you posted was just Steen against some crappy wrestler 8*D.


User should be banned for this post, tbf


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rah said:


> User should be banned for this post, tbf


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Double post, but totally worth it:



> -- In a related and interesting note, Lesnar will also work the 7/4 show at Sumo Hall in Tokyo, Japan. It would be his first non-TV appearance for WWE since 2004. His advertised opponent on the show: Kofi Kingston.


:lmao


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

ratings!~ on a bunch of stuff watched recently

*Royal Rumble 2007*

MNM vs Hardy Boyz - *** 1/2
John Cena(c) vs Umaga - Last Man Standing match - ****

*No Way Out 2007*

Batista & The Undertaker vs. John Cena & Shawn Michaels - *** 1/2

i'm just watching some 2007-2008 stuff atm


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I am as high on Kofi as I've ever been and this is still my least favourite thing since Mark Henry's injury in 2012.



Cal on a Callihan match he hated:



> If anything this is another example of Sami actually being pretty good. Good strikes, good selling, the whole "intensity" bullshit I hear complaints about happened ONCE and was nothing more than a cut off spot set up so it was perfectly fine. Shame he was in their with someone is probably IS shit.


Cal in a post:



> I'm with Andy. Seen limited Sami and thought he was good. That's about all the wrestling I'll probably be talking about for a while. Bah. Fuck shit and stuff.


Cal smack-talking Callihan before Cody joined the eeleet:

...........................


fuck you, ginger


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I then watched MORE of the guy and that was the turning point. The fact he had some absolutely shitty fucking matches with FINLAY after they already had an awesome match pretty much sealed the deal .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal caught red handed w/o that being a pun b/c he's a ginger. This settles it; forced to attend A4E daily for life. 

Welcome to hell, jerk.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thought it may interest some people:

*Jimmy Jacobs vs. B.J. Whitmer (I Quit Match) (IWA-MS 03.01.2008)*

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/indy-...whitmer-i-quit-match-iwa-ms-03-01-2008-a.html

Insane match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Big Cal's World said:


> I then watched MORE of the guy and that was the turning point. The fact he had some absolutely shitty fucking matches with FINLAY after they already had an awesome match pretty much sealed the deal .


do you want to post your comments where you said the Finlay matches were OK and not "shitty"???? You gave one ***1/4 prick. THREE AND A QUARTER. That ain't shitty in THIS nerd party.


Brock isn't seriously working Kofi is he? I'll take all of this back if you just admit that was a lie.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

As a ginger, the term "caught red handed" sounds like I got caught masturbating :lmao.

Thinking thinking I might start on another 08 PPV Ramble today. Gonna go with... Backlash and then Judgment Day so I can watch the Taker/Edge matches that matter in order. Might watch their WM match in preparation cos like, those 3 matches are even better when watched as a series.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brock said:


> Thought it may interest some people:
> 
> *Jimmy Jacobs vs. B.J. Whitmer (I Quit Match) (IWA-MS 03.01.2008)*
> 
> ...


Huh. Actually don't believe I've seen this match. I thought it may have been the one w/the senton off the ladder finish, but that is their Barbed Wire match and (then) 100% feud-ender from what started in 2006.



Yeah1993 said:


> do you want to post your comments where you said the Finlay matches were OK and not "shitty"???? You gave one ***1/4 prick. THREE AND A QUARTER. That ain't shitty in THIS nerd party.
> 
> 
> Brock isn't seriously working Kofi is he? I'll take all of this back if you just admit that was a lie.


***1/4 = shitty. Read it here. I need to update the Cal Scale in the OP.

And I really think that's the signed match for now. I don't know what's worse: that it is happening and it is wasted on Kofi or that Kofi is gonna get the greatest slaughter ever & it isn't even being put on TV for me to watch.



Big Cal's World said:


> As a ginger, the term "caught red handed" sounds like I got caught masturbating :lmao.


:CENA


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I feel like watching the Edge/Taker series myself.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

STOP USING MY OWN WORDS AGAINST ME!!!


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:lmao at Brock advertised to face Kofi on that house show. They should have him face all of New Day in a 3 on 1 handicap match and have Brock squash them all like Steiner did against jobbers in WCW.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Need to photoshop Cal's avatar attempting a leap off of a cliff. On the bottom it can read "***1/4 = shitty".


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)




----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lord have mercy. :lmao


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Whoa. Things got out of hand here REALLY quickly.

I've only seen the first Callihan/Finlay match, the one Zeppers uploaded. And it's absolutely fantastic no way can I see them having a shitty match after this hard hitting spectacle.

Haven't seen that Whitmer/Jacobs I Quit, but good lord their cage match is just about one of the greatest things I've ever seen, top 3 cage match for me personally.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You guys is mean .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cjack, did you ever watch the Samoa Joe vs. Jay Briscoe cage match? I believe it was at the At Our Best ROH event in like 2003. The amount of blood in that match made Cena/JBL look like a papercut. You could actually see Briscoe's blood clot up before it dripped to the ground!


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Thought I'd pimp a recent podcast with Jay Lethal on Taz's Human Podcast Machine. I'm kind of hooked on them since Hansen's on the Ross Report last year. Lethal was damn funny in it talking about why his dad has heat w/Larry Zbyszko, why he feared Taz, and of course his signature Naitch impression. I had several good laughs, and they seemed to get along pretty well; very entertaining. Starts around 20min mark.

https://player.fm/series/human-podc...-ring-of-honors-jay-lethal-also-taz-talks-raw


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Callihan/Finlay from EVOLVE 9 and 11 I enjoyed. Their match in Germany, let's just say the first two set some high standards. I found that match to be quite dull frankly. Then again, I would have probably enjoyed it more if the annoying commentary was turned off


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Cjack, did you ever watch the Samoa Joe vs. Jay Briscoe cage match? I believe it was at the At Our Best ROH event in like 2003. The amount of blood in that match made Cena/JBL look like a papercut. You could actually see Briscoe's blood clot up before it dripped to the ground!


Sure did buddy. That was a PHENOMENAL match, and yes the blood coagulating and hanging from Briscoes forehead was straight up gnarly. That was actually the very first Briscoe match I ever saw AND the first Joe match I ever saw. After watching it I ordered the Punk/Joe set from ROH and also watched that unbelievably insane a Joe/Necro Butcher match.

You want to talk about absolute insane levels of violence, and cringeworthy spots, that Joe/Butcher match takes the cake for me, atleast for matches that don't technically fall under the "deathmatch/ultraviolent" category. Joe power slamming Necro on his forehead, then following it up by busting out the Terry Funk full force chair throw to the noggin, then following it up by exploder suplexing Necro onto his forehead AGAIN. I mean. My god. When Necro made his big firey come back I was legitimately astounded he wasn't dead or comatose, then when Joe does those open hand Palm strikes and you see a giant red mist of blood filling the ring from all the sweat and blood on Necros head. Jesus. That's one unfuckingbelievable match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Sure did buddy. That was a PHENOMENAL match, and yes the blood coagulating and hanging from Briscoes forehead was straight up gnarly. That was actually the very first Briscoe match I ever saw AND the first Joe match I ever saw. After watching it I ordered the Punk/Joe set from ROH and also watched that unbelievably insane a Joe/Necro Butcher match.
> 
> You want to talk about absolute insane levels of violence, and cringeworthy spots, that Joe/Butcher match takes the cake for me, atleast for matches that don't technically fall under the "deathmatch/ultraviolent" category. Joe power slamming Necro on his forehead, then following it up by busting out the Terry Funk full force chair throw to the noggin, then following it up by exploder suplexing Necro onto his forehead AGAIN. I mean. My god. When Necro made his big firey come back I was legitimately astounded he wasn't dead or comatose, then when Joe does those open hand Palm strikes and you see a giant red mist of blood filling the ring from all the sweat and blood on Necros head. Jesus. That's one unfuckingbelievable match.


Ill have to check that out, even though im not a fan of all that CZW super violent stuff, but ill watch this when i can, not a big fan of Necro either if im hones, bar his match with Danielson.

IWA put it on their YT channel not too long ago too:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callihan vs Finlay series followed up by Jacobs vs Whitmer stuff and now Joe vs Jay Briscoe Steel Cage & Joe vs Necro are mentioned.

Tremendous.

An idea of wrestling heaven right here. It's really brutal. I knew this.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I think I'm all but convinced Necro was almost a top 5 wrestler in the world from 04-06. I have some matches on disc to watch to confirm it but even when the match isn't great he's always doing amazing shit. I still need to see his '08 stuff.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Necro is gold. Fabulous pro wrestler.

Jheri you haven't seen any Necro from 2008? He has a good match w/Jimmy Jacobs in ROH (iirc) & is part of the rather wild six person tag from PWG All Star Weekend 6 Night One. Trying to think of various Necro specifics, b/c it's really all over the place, but you might dig it. It's probably PWG's most decent comparison to one of the ROH vs CZW matches. _(I stress decent by sheer comparison, but you know, wild, hate driven stuff computes)_


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Here's Necro's 08 from OWW. Some of it looks incredibly promsising:



> January 5, 2008–Pro Wrestling Guerrilla: Human Tornado & Claudio Castagnoli & Eddie Kingston defeated Chris Hero & Necro Butcher & Candice LeRae (Hero’s “girlfriend”).
> January 6, 2008–Pro Wrestling Guerrilla: Necro Butcher defeated Claudio Castagnoli in a Falls Count Anywhere match.
> January 11, 2008 – Ring of Honor: Necro Butcher w/Lacey defeated “Mr. Wrestling” Kevin Steen in a Street Fight..
> January 12, 2008 – Ring of Honor: Tyler Black & Necro Butcher vs. The Briscoes was a No Contest when Jay Briscoe was injured..
> ...


Callihan, Kingston, and Scorpio matches are all high-praised. Predator (Sylvester Terkay) match from Japan I think I've actually seen.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

> March 8, 2008–CZW: Necro Butcher defeated Danny Havoc, Freak Show, Ian Rotten and Shane Storm in a gauntlet match.


Remember this. When Shane Storm came out :lmao Hollywood Dylan Summers gimmick is something you should see.

Don't think I've ever seen Necro vs Callihan, actually. Need it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> Ill have to check that out, even though im not a fan of all that CZW super violent stuff, but ill watch this when i can, not a big fan of Necro either if im hones, bar his match with Danielson.
> 
> IWA put it on their YT channel not too long ago too:


Bud it's NOT an ultraviolent match nor is it a deathmatch. It's less overtly violent than say, Foley vs Orton at Backlash. They don't use any props, the only weapons I can remember are the chairs they use on each other while brawling through the crowd.

No, what Joe vs Butcher is, is one of the most graphically brutal encounters I've seen this side of Foley vs Vader Saturday Night. It gives you the EXACT feeling that that Foley/Vader match gives you. It doesn't give me the sick to my stomach feeling that a deathmatch does, it's more "OH MY GOD OH MY GOD OH MY GOD THAT WAS FUCKING GNARLY! HOW IS HE NOT DEAD?!?!" type deal, where you have goosebumps just 2 minutes in because you realize these two crazy bastards are straight up BRINGING IT. They aren't worried that they are only performing in front of a few
hundred die hards in a dingy barn, they are looking to make a timeless piece of brutalist art, with the sound track provided by the one and only CM Punk on commentary. You can hear Punk's genuine awe at what his buddy Samoa Joe is doing, it adds to the effect of, man this is a once in a life time type of match.

All I can say is, watch it dude. I don't know how many stars I'd give it because there is simply no reference point for it, for me anyway. It's perfect in its imperfections, the botches, if you can even call them that, only make the scene more chaotic, more brutal, more enamouring.

That's one of the gushiest reviews I've eve written for a non Eddie Guerrero match, that should tell you something 




Hayley Seydoux said:


> Callihan vs Finlay series followed up by Jacobs vs Whitmer stuff and now Joe vs Jay Briscoe Steel Cage & Joe vs Necro are mentioned.
> 
> Tremendous.
> 
> An idea of wrestling heaven right here. It's really brutal. I knew this.


Thought you'd like that. Have you gotten a chance to watch Crowe/Owens from NXT this week? Thoughts?



Yeah1993 said:


> I think I'm all but convinced Necro was almost a top 5 wrestler in the world from 04-06. I have some matches on disc to watch to confirm it but even when the match isn't great he's always doing amazing shit. I still need to see his '08 stuff.


Dude I've been trying to find a post from you where you referenced or reviewed actually a match I've been trying to find for AGES. I BELIEVE it was a match between Necro Butcher and either Ian or Axel Rotten. I'm not 100% sure it was either of those guys actually, as Chris Hero might have been involved. I just can't remember for the life of me what match it was.

Anyway, you start your write up by saying this classic line I've had stuck in my head, you said "This match is two greasy shit stains just locking up." Or something to that effect. You then went on to heap gobs of praise on it and deem it a classic affair.

Do you happen to remember the match/review I'm thinking of? Do you have that review saved anywhere and can you post it again? And even better, do you happen to have a link to that match by any chance? I'd GREATLY appreciate it, it's been driving me nuts for weeks trying to search our old thread for that post you made.

Thanks in advance sir.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Remember this. When Shane Storm came out :lmao* Hollywood Dylan Summers gimmick is something you should see.*
> 
> Don't think I've ever seen Necro vs Callihan, actually. Need it.


Between this, the actual Necro Butcher and CP Munk that dude has had the the most incredible gimmicks of the past fifteen years.

do you need Necro/Sami?


The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Do you happen to remember the match/review I'm thinking of? Do you have that review saved anywhere and can you post it again? And even better, do you happen to have a link to that match by any chance? I'd GREATLY appreciate it, it's been driving me nuts for weeks trying to search our old thread for that post you made.


It was Rotten/Tarek:



> Finally re-watched Hero/Rotten after more than three years. I was never positive I was going to put it on my list no matter how much I liked it, and even if I still like it about as much as I did before – I am positive I won’t put it on my list. Still, it’s really good. Rugged and stiff and violent and trashy and really good. I didn’t dig the opening armbar stuff too much but once they starts applying holds and clubbing each other it gets to be all kinds of sloppy greatness. Some parts were sloppy in a bad way, yeah, but most parts were sloppy in a good way. Maybe it was the fact there was a maximum of twenty people watching this, but Ian Rotten really came off like a great, great vocal seller. Hero had some really cool vocal sells as well. On note of Hero, I really have no idea what he was hoping to accomplish by taping his leg the way he did. The leg shit overall was pretty awesome, though. As was this.
> 
> Ian Rotten v. Tarek the Great was fucking great. Just two greasy shitbags tying up with each other and having a grappling contest for twenty minutes. Stiffness on the headbutts and blows sound even stiffer when your pathetic excuse for an audience is 20 people. The vocal selling is also better, but I've seen great vocal selling in front of big audiences and they were not as good as this kind of vocal selling. This just felt like a legit fight. Not even two guys that didn't like each other or anything (though they were cussing), but if I showed this to someone and said it was a low budget MMA show they’d probably believe me (to some degree...they'd prob believe it was a shoot, anyway). Rotten and Tarek would get out of holds by disgustingly turning the opponent’s body part, or just throwing fists wherever they’ll go. To me it was essentially a better version of Rotten v. Chris Hero and I thought this was better than Dragon v. Ki, too. 2002 US MOTY. All I need to figure out is where to rank it.....I'm starting to really hate contemplating where to rank the matches.


Not a classic, but a great match, yeah. Would have absolutely placed if I finished the 00s list (it was on there somewhere when I had an ongoing top 50, thought I had the list on this computer but don't, apparently) . I think I used to have the match uploaded but my account got wiped. I'll get it up on DM sometime.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I refuse to believe that Tarek the Great was in any way better than Kofi Kingston. I need visual evidence of him adding value to humanity.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Between this, the actual Necro Butcher and CP Munk that dude has had the the most incredible gimmicks of the past fifteen years.
> 
> do you need Necro/Sami?
> 
> ...



Ah, thank you kindly sir. I found a place where I can watch it for .99 cents :lmao. I'm bored and seriously considering doing it, I have $2.30 that's just been sitting in my PayPal account for forever.

Off topic but, has anyone else seen the absolutely AMAZING Mad Max: Fury Road movie? The whole time the movie is going on, this amazingly jacked up monster guy keeps appearing, he's the son of Immortan Joe, that crazy looking boss of the Dead Boys guy. Anyway, I couldn't figure out where I recognized this jacked guy named Rictus Erectus from, he was wearing a rubber jock strap looking thing on his face and it was throwing me off. Today I looked it up and it's none other than Nathan fucking Jones! From WWE circa 2001-2003. He's the guy who was Takers buddy from prison who just up and quit one day because he couldn't take the WWE schedule. Thought that was funny. Then they just posted a big story on good old Nathan Jones on Grantland.com. Apparently he's been in a ton of B action movies and martial arts movies, even in movies with guys like Tony Jaa. He's also in Troy, that 2004 movie where Brad Pitt plays Achilles. Nathan Jones is the big bad dude from the beginning of the movie who Pitt gets summoned to fight to prevent a battle between two armies. He basically is seen on screen for 30 seconds bellowing a ferocious battle cry before Pitt runs up to him and nonchalantly stabs him through the neck ending the fight :lmao


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I really fucking wish I could find it but Mad Man Pondo & Necro Butcher had a deathmatch in Big Japan that I used to think was one of the best fucking deathmatches I've ever seen, mainly because it actually had a story and limbwork involved. Towards the end Pondo has Necro in a STF and he's torquing the fuck out of his injured hip. No clue what I would think of it now, but I sure as hell loved it years back. It's on this dvd:










The women's match on that disc is also wonderful. Damn it why did I sell that...


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Ah, thank you kindly sir. I found a place where I can watch it for .99 cents :lmao. I'm bored and seriously considering doing it, I have $2.30 that's just been sitting in my PayPal account for forever.


Ha, yeah, that's where I got it. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> I refuse to believe that Tarek the Great was in any way better than Kofi Kingston. I need visual evidence of him adding value to humanity.


is he, like, an infamous...something? Infamously bad wrestler? Did he rob a bank? I've never hard or seen of him outside that one match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Thought you'd like that. Have you gotten a chance to watch Crowe/Owens from NXT this week? Thoughts?


Know me well. Haven't watched yet. Maybe later tonight, maybe tomorrow. We'll see. I'll give a little something on it after I see it. Even if it is a bit more "Steen dominating" than completely "even" i'm ok w/that. Fits the bill as this would be only about the 4th/5th match Callihan/Crowe has had on TV. I just want to see it, badly.



Yeah1993 said:


> Between this, the actual Necro Butcher and CP Munk that dude has had the the most incredible gimmicks of the past fifteen years.
> 
> do you need Necro/Sami?


CP Munk :mark:

He's 90% why I enjoy the film *The Wrestler*. No joke. I hope going "hollywood" was his idea after the film wrapped up.

YES, I do need it.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

[USER]Jack Evans 187[/USER]





This is a rematch of their outdoor fight. I'm pretty sure this is the same video as the one on that DVD. 





IWA-MS was kind enough to upload the great Klein/Butcher match that put Necro on the radar.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

^^ I thought that was it when I came across it too, but is isn't unfortunately. They must have had another match (a 3rd one I guess?). Necro takes a nasty bumps where he gets flipped from the top turnbuckle to the floor and several steel chair bumps.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Anybody have the Taker/Vader match from Canadian Stampede? The only version I was able to find on dailymotion is kinda crap.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bruce L said:


> Anybody have the Taker/Vader match from Canadian Stampede? The only version I was able to find on dailymotion is kinda crap.


http://vk.com/video-737964_165684566


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

When exactly is the era of the Smackdown Six? 2002-2003 right? Feel like downloading some old Smackdowns


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SaviorBeeRad™;49153018 said:


> When exactly is the era of the Smackdown Six? 2002-2003 right? Feel like downloading some old Smackdowns


If it's any help, i have this custom comp. Might give you some ideas:



Spoiler: Smackdown Six Listing



Disc 1
Rey Mysterio vs. Chavo Guerrero (SD! 7/25/02)
Edge vs. Chris Jericho (Cage Match) (SD! 7/25/02)
Rey Mysterio vs. Tajiri (SD! 8/1/02)
Chris Benoit & Eddie Guerrero vs. The Rock & Edge (SD! 8/1/02)
Kurt Angle vs. John Cena (SD! 8/8/02)
Edge, Rey Mysterio & John Cena vs. Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit & Eddie Guerrero (SD! 8/8/02)
Edge vs. Chris Jericho (Global Warming 8/10/02)
Edge & Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Los Guerreros (SD! 8/15/02)
Interview w/ The Rock (SD! 8/15/02)
Chris Benoit vs. The Rock (SD! 8/15/02)


Disc 2
Chavo Guerrero Jr. vs. Matt Hardy (SD! 8/22/02)
Kurt Angle + Rey Mysterio (SD! 8/22/02)
Kurt Angle vs. Billy Kidman (SD! 8/22/02)
Edge & The Rock vs. Chris Benoit & Eddie Guerrero (SD! 8/22/02)
Kurt Angle vs. Rey Mysterio (Summerslam 8/25/02)
Eddie Guerrero vs. Edge (Summerslam 8/25/02)
Eddie Guerrero vs. Edge (SD! 8/29/02)
Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker (SD! 8/29/02)
Kurt Angle, Eddie Guerrero & Chris Benoit vs. Undertaker, Edge & Rikishi (SD! 9/5/02)
Los Guerreros vs. Edge & John Cena (SD! 9/12/02)
Kurt Angle Promo (SD! 9/12/02)
Kurt Angle vs. Rey Mysterio Jr. (SD! 9/12/02)


Disc 3
Los Guerreros (SD! 9/19/02)
Los Guerreros vs. Edge & Rikishi (SD! 9/19/02)
Billy Gunn & Chuck Palumbo vs. Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit (SD! 9/19/02)
Rey Mysterio vs. Chavo Guerrero (Unforgiven 9/22/02)
Eddie Guerrero vs. Edge (Unforgiven 9/22/02)
Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle (Unforgiven 9/22/02)
Eddie Guerrero vs. Edge (No DQ) (SD! 9/26/02)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit (SD! 9/26/02) (619)
Kurt Angle + Edge (SD! 10/3/02)
Edge vs. Kurt Angle (SD! 10/3/02)
Kurt Angle + Chris Benoit Backstage (SD! 10/3/02)

Disc 4
Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Benoit (SD! 10/3/02)
Eddie Guerrero vs. Rikishi (SD! 10/10/02)
Backstage Vignettes and Promos (SD! 10/10/02)
Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs. Billy Kidman & John Cena (SD! 10/10/02)
Los Guerreros (SD! 10/10/02)
Edge & Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Brock Lesnar & Tajiri (SD! 10/10/02)
Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs. Los Guerreros (SD! 10/17/02)
Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs. Rey Mysterio & Edge (No Mercy 10/20/02)
Chris Benoit + Kurt Angle (SD! 10/24/02)
Los Guerreros vs. Rey Mysterio & Edge (SD! 10/24/02)
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit (SD! 10/24/02)

Disc 5
Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs. Los Guerreros (Rebellion 10/26/02)
Edge vs. Brock Lesnar & Paul Heyman (Rebellion 10/26/02)
Edge vs. Chris Benoit (SD! 10/31/02)
Eddie Guerrero vs. Kurt Angle (SD! 10/31/02)
Rey Mysterio vs. Brock Lesnar (SD! 10/31/02)
Rey Mysterio & Edge vs. Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit (2/3 Falls) (SD! 11/7/02)
Eddie Guerrero vs. Brock Lesnar (SD! 11/7/02)

Disc 6
Edge vs. Chavo Guerrero Jr. (SD! 11/14/02)
Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio (SD! 11/14/02)
Kurt Angle Promo (SD! 11/14/02)
Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle (SD! 11/14/02)
Los Guerreros vs. Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs. Rey Mysterio & Edge (Survivor Series 11/17/02)
Rey Mysterio vs. Jamie Noble (SD! 11/21/02)
Los Guerreros + Stephanie (SD! 11/21/02)
Chris Benoit vs. Chavo Guerrero (SD! 11/21/02)
Eddie Guerrero vs. Kurt Angle (SD! 11/21/02)
Edge vs. The Big Show (SD! 11/21/02)
Edge & Rey Mysterio vs. Matt Hardy & John Cena (SD! 11/28/02)
Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs. Los Guerreros (SD! 11/28/02)

Disc 7
Rey Mysterio vs. A-Train (SD! 12/5/02)
Chavo Guerrero vs. Billy Kidman (SD! 12/5/02)
Eddie Guerrero vs. Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit vs. Edge (Elimination Match) (SD! 12/5/02)
Chris Benoit & Billy Kidman vs. Los Guerreros (SD! 12/12/02)
Edge & Kurt Angle vs. Big Show & A-Train (SD! 12/12/02)
Edge vs. A-Train (Armageddon 12/15/02)
Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit (Armageddon 12/15/02)
Kurt Angle vs. The Big Show (Armageddon 12/15/02)
Eddie Guerrero vs. Billy Kidman (SD! 12/19/02)
Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle (SD! 12/19/02)

Disc 8
Los Guerreros vs. Edge & Kidman (SD! 12/26/02)
Los Guerreros + John Cena & B2 (SD! 12/26/02)
Chris Benoit vs. The Big Show (SD! 12/26/02)
Eddie Guerrero vs. Billy Kidman (SD! 1/2/03)
Chris Benoit & Edge vs. Charlie Haas & Shelton Benjamin (SD! 1/2/03)
Chavo Guerrero vs. John Cena (SD! 1/9/03)
Edge vs. Charlie Haas (SD! 1/9/03)
Chris Benoit vs. Shelton Benjamin (SD! 1/9/03)
Los Guerreros vs. John Cena & B2 (SD! 1/16/03)
Edge & Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle, Charlie Haas & Shelton Benjamin (SD! 1/16/03)
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit (Rumble 1/19/03)



But 2003 has some great stuff with Eddie, Tajiri, Lesnar, Angle, WGTT etc.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Brock said:


> If it's any help, i have this custom comp. Might give you some ideas:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yeah just what i needed


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

need some help guys

i havent slept in almost 37 hours now and i've smoked enough to be in a current feel good moment, but i want to sleep so i can catch the chamber later

what ppv should i watch? random from wwe or wcw, nothing too intense, just easy on the eye while possibly helping me sleep


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Unforgiven 2002


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Upped some matches today:

*Jushin Liger vs Brian Pillman (NJPW G1 Climax 08.11.1991)*

x2s6ic7

Didn't even know this existed until last week.  DM did tag this as having
adult material, probably due to originally having the word 'Climax' in the title,
so i changed the title. :lmao

*Barry Windham & Dustin Rhodes vs. Steve Williams & Terry Gordy (WCW Saturday Night 10.03.1992)*

x2s6fk9

Saw this online but it was in JIP form, and it's a really good tag IMO.

*The Shield vs Daniel Bryan, Kane & Kofi Kingston (Raw 05.20.2013)*

x2s6r6h

I know most people have seen this and it's online, but i noticed that had a lot of skips,
so thought id upload a better version that i had.

Enjoy.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Now I am REALLY intrigued by the Windham/Rhodes vs Doc n Gordy tag. That sounds amazing.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

It sounds amazing because it is. Windham & Rhodes had one hell of a '92, and that match was the capper.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Pretty good match, but it did go on for too long. Dustin was the best worker that WCW had in 1992. Flawless. Gotta love some of the arm work in the beginning, especially Dustin's counterwrestling. Not a big fan of Windham's FIP segments from what I've seen of him in 1992, but I think he was nursing a knee and back injury at the time. Probably around ***1/2-***3/4.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Think I'd put Dustin 4th or 5th for 92 WCW guys and he's one of my top ten favourites of all time.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, there a definite 'lull' in the match, but all in all a very strong match, esp on Saturday Night.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Pretty good match, but it did go on for too long. Dustin was the best worker that WCW had in 1992. Flawless. Gotta love some of the arm work in the beginning, especially Dustin's counterwrestling. Not a big fan of Windham's FIP segments from what I've seen of him in 1992, but I think he was nursing a knee and back injury at the time. Probably around ***1/2-***3/4.





Yeah1993 said:


> Think I'd put Dustin 4th or 5th for 92 WCW guys and he's one of my top ten favourites of all time.


Was just going to say that. I LOVE Dustin Rhodes, I really love Goldust as well but 91-94 Dustin Rhodes as "The Natural" is one of my all time favorite characters and performers. 1992 saw flat out AMAZING in ring years from Steamboat, Arn Anderson, Bobby Eaton, Rick Rude, Steve Austin, Barry Windham, Mick Foley, and last but certainly not least VADER.

Who had the best year in 1992? Damn that's so tough, gun to my head I'm saying Ricky Steamboat. Arn is RIGHT there though, and Vader in his limited appearances was otherworldly too. But I give 1993 to Vader so ill give 1992 to Steamboat.

Speaking of GREAT in ring years, Regal in 1996 is just absolutely fantastic. I've been going through and watching WCW Nitro's and PPV's for that entire year and I've seen nothing but week to week brilliance from his Lordship. Got another really nice, short match with none other than Eddy Guerrero, I highly recommend checking it out, it's from the 1/7/96 Nitro. Both guys were class but Regal outperformed Eddy I think, he was just that good.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Been wanting to get into more Dustin Rhodes after all the talk on here, as ive hardly really seen anything from him TBH. Finally got Will's set the other week:



Spoiler: Best Of Dustin Rhodes



BEST OF DUSTIN RHODES

Disc 1

Dustin Rhodes & Kendall Windham vs. Curtis Thompson & Bill Holiday (WCWSN 
12/17/88)
Dusty Rhodes introduces Dustin (Florida 1989) 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Terry Funk (PWF 3/11/89) 
Dustin & Dusty Rhodes Interview (Florida 4/89) 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Bobby Jaggers (Florida 4/89) 
Dustin Rhodes & Mike Graham vs. Black Bart & Bobby Jaggers (Florida 5/9/89) 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Al Perez (Florida 5/23/89) 
Dustin Rhodes Interview (CWA 7/8/89) 
Dustin Rhodes, Ricky Morton & Freddy vs. Roberson, Rough & Ready (CWA 7/8/89)
Dustin Rhodes vs. Black Bart (CWA 7/29/89) 
Dustin Rhodes Promo (11/3/89) 
Dustin Rhodes & Jimmy Jack Funk vs. P.Y. Chu-Hi & Buddy Landell (12/1/89) 
Dustin Rhodes & Jimmy Jack Funk vs. The Stud Stable (12/1/89) 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Paul Diamond (MSG 9/21/90) 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Ted Dibiase (Superstars 11/3/90) 
Dustin & Dusty Rhodes vs. Ted Dibiase & Virgil (Rumble 1/19/91)
Dustin Rhodes vs. Rip Rogers (WCWSN 2/16/91)

Disc 2

Dustin Rhodes vs. Buddy Landell (Wrestlewar 2/24/91) 
Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Morton vs. State Patrol (WCWSN 4/6/91)
Dustin Rhodes vs. Larry Zbyszko (WCWSN 4/13/91) 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Terry Taylor (SuperBrawl 5/19/91) 
Dustin Rhodes & Bobby Eaton vs. Arn Anderson & Terry Taylor (Main Event 6/2/91)
Dustin Rhodes, Tracy Smothers & Steve Armstrong vs. The Fabulous Freebirds & 
Badstreet (WCWSN 6/15/91)
Dustin Rhodes & Big Josh vs. Michael Hayes & Badstreet (Main Event 6/23/91)
Dustin Rhodes vs. Ricky Morton (Handheld 7/3/91)
Dustin Rhodes, Tracy Smothers, & Steve Armstrong vs. The Fabulous Freebirds (GAB 
7/14/91) 
Dustin Rhodes, Yellow Dog & Bobby Eaton vs. Barry Windham, Arn Anderson & 
Diamond Studd (WWW 7/20/91) 
Dustin Rhodes & Robert Gibson vs. Dick Slater & Dick Murdoch (Main Event 
8/11/91)

Disc 3

Dustin Rhodes vs. Steve Austin (WCWSN 8/17/91) 
Dustin Rhodes, Big Josh & Tom Zenk vs. The Fabulous Freebirds & Badstreet (WWW 
8/24/91) 
Dustin Rhodes & Robert Gibson vs. Steve Austin & Diamond Studd (Main Event 
9/1/91)
Dustin Rhodes, Big Josh & Tom Zenk vs. Richard Morton, Thomas Rich & Terrence 
Taylor (WWW 9/7/91) 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Steve Austin (Havoc 10/27/91) 
Dustin Rhodes, Big Josh & Tom Zenk vs. Ricky Morton, Terry Taylor & Tommy Rich 
(Main Event 11/3/91)
Dustin Rhodes, Big Josh & Tom Zenk vs. Ricky Morton, Terry Taylor & Tommy Rich 
(Main Event 11/10/91)
Dustin Rhodes, Big Josh & Tom Zenk vs. Ricky Morton, Terry Taylor & Tommy Rich 
(No DQ Cage Match) (Pro 11/16/91) 
Dustin Rhodes, Tom Zenk & Bobby Eaton vs. Steve Austin, Arn Anderson & Larry 
Zbyszko (WWW 11/16/91) 
Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Steamboat vs. Arn Anderson & Larry Zbyszko (Clash 
11/19/91) 

Disc 4

Dustin Rhodes & Bobby Eaton vs. Steve Austin & Arn Anderson (WWW 11/23/91) 
Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Steamboat vs. Terry Taylor & Ricky Morton (WCWSN 11/30/91)
Dustin Rhodes vs. Bobby Eaton (WCWSN 12/7/91) Dustin Rhodes, Ricky Steamboat & Brian Pillman vs. Bobby Eaton, Arn Anderson & 
Larry Zbyszko (Pro 12/21/91)
Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Steamboat vs. Arn Anderson & Bobby Eaton (Handheld 
12/27/91)
Dustin Rhodes vs. Arn Anderson (WCWSN 1/4/92)
Dustin Rhodes, Barry Windham, & Ron Simmons vs. Arn Anderson, Bobby Eaton & 
Larry Zbyszko (Clash 1/21/92) 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Arn Anderson (WCWSN 1/25/92) 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Bobby Eaton (Pro 2/1/92) 

Disc 5

Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham vs. Steve Austin & Larry Zbyszko (Superbrawl 
2/29/92) 
Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham vs. Cactus Jack & Diamond Dallas Page (WCWSN 
3/14/92) 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Bobby Eaton (Power Hour 5/8/92)
Dustin Rhodes vs. Bobby Eaton (WWW 5/9/92) 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Larry Zbyszko (WWW 5/23/92) 
Dustin Rhodes, Nikita Koloff & Ricky Steamboat vs. Larry Zbyszko, Bobby Eaton & 
Arn Anderson (WCWSN 5/23/92)
Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham vs. Abdullah The Butcher & Cactus Jack (Main Event 
5/24/92) 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Rick Rude (WWW 5/30/92) 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Terry Taylor (Main Event 5/31/92)
Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham vs. Arn Anderson & Bobby Eaton (Clash 6/16/92) 

Disc 6

Dustin Rhodes vs. Rick Rude (Main Event 6/21/92)
Dustin Rhodes vs. Terry Taylor (WCWSN 6/27/92)
Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham vs. Steve Austin & Rick Rude (GAB 7/12/92) 
Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham vs. Hiro Hase & Shinya Hashimoto (GAB 7/12/92) 
Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham vs. Terry Gordy & Steve Williams (GAB 7/12/92) 
Dustin Rhodes, Barry Windham & Ricky Steamboat vs. Greg Valentine, Dick Slater & 
The Barbarian (WWW 8/29/92) 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Cactus Jack (Main Event 8/30/92)
Dustin Rhodes vs. Cactus Jack (WWW 9/5/92) 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Cactus Jack (Falls Count Anywhere) (Main Event 9/6/92)
Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham vs. Cactus Jack & Barbarian (Main Event 9/13/92)

Disc 7

Dustin Rhodes, Barry Windham & Nikita Koloff vs. Cactus Jack, The Barbarian & 
Jake Roberts (Main Event 9/20/92)
Dustin Rhodes vs. Jake Roberts (WCWSN 9/26/92) 
Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham vs. Steve Williams & Terry Gordy (WCWSN 10/3/92)
Dustin Rhodes & Brad Armstrong vs. Steve Austin & Brian Pillman (WCWSN 10/10/92)
Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Steamboat vs. Arn Anderson & Bobby Eaton (WCWSN 10/24/92)
Barry Windham Interview / Dustin Rhodes + Cactus Jack /Dustin Rhodes vs. The Barbarian (WCWSN 11/14/92) 
Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham vs. Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas (Clash 
11/18/92) 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Vader (WCWSN 11/21/92) 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Steve Austin (WCWSN 12/5/92) 
Dustin Rhodes + Barry Windham Brawl (WCWSN 12/12/92) 

Disc 8

Dustin Rhodes & Brad Armstrong vs. Brian Pillman & Barry Windham (Main Event 
12/13/92)
Dustin Rhodes vs. Barry Windham (Handheld 12/29/92)
Dustin Rhodes vs. Barry Windham (Main Event 1/10/93)
Dustin Rhodes vs. Ricky Steamboat (WCWSN 1/16/93) 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Ricky Steamboat (WCWSN 1/23/93)
Dustin Rhodes & Sting vs. Vader & Barry Windham (WCWSN 1/30/93)
Dustin Rhodes vs. Paul Orndorff (WWW 2/13/93)
Dustin Rhodes & Cactus Jack vs. Barry Windham & Paul Orndorff (WCWSN 2/13/93)
Dustin Rhodes vs. Maxx Payne (Superbrawl 2/21/93) 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Paul Orndorff (WCWSN 3/13/93)
Dustin Rhodes vs. Paul Orndorff (WWW 3/20/93)

Disc 9

Dustin Rhodes, Shane Douglas & Ricky Steamboat vs. Steve Austin, Brian Pillman & 
Barry Windham (Main Event 3/28/93)
Dustin Rhodes vs. Rick Rude (WWW 5/15/93)
Dustin Rhodes vs. Dick Slater (WCWSN 7/17/93)
Dustin Rhodes vs. Rick Rude (Ironman Match) (Beach Blast 7/18/93) 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Rick Rude (WCWSN 8/28/93) 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Rick Rude (WCWSN 9/4/93) 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Rick Rude (WCWSN 9/11/93) 
Dustin Rhodes & Ric Flair vs. Rick Rude & Sid Vicious (WCWSN 9/18/93) 

Disc 10

Dustin Rhodes vs. Steve Austin (Havoc 10/24/93) 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Paul Orndorff (Clash 11/10/93) 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Paul Orndorff (Handheld 11/28/93) 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Steve Austin (2/3 Falls) (Starrcade 12/27/93) 
Dustin Rhodes & Brian Pillman vs. Steve Austin & Rick Rude (WWW 1/15/94) 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Steven Regal (Clash 1/27/94) 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Bunkhouse Buck (Bunkhouse Match) (Stampede 4/17/94) 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Steve Austin (WCWSN 5/7/94) 
Dustin Rhodes & Johnny B Badd vs. Steve Austin & Bunkhouse Buck (WCWSN 5/21/94)

Disc 11

Dustin Rhodes vs. Bunkhouse Buck (Bull Rope Match) (Slamboree 5/22/94) 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Bunkhouse Buck (Main Event 7/3/94)
Dustin Rhodes & Arn Anderson vs. Terry Funk & Bunkhouse Buck (BATB 7/17/94) 
Dustin & Dusty Rhodes Interview /
Dustin Rhodes vs. Bunkhouse Buck (WCWSN 8/6/94) 
Dustin & Dusty Rhodes Interview (WCWSN 8/20/94)
Dustin Rhodes vs. Arn Anderson (Main Event 8/28/94)
Dustin & Dusty Rhodes vs. Terry Funk & Bunkhouse Buck (Clash 8/28/94) 
Dustin Rhodes, Dusty & Nasty Boys Interview (WCWSN 9/3/94)
Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Steamboat vs. Arn Anderson & Bunkhouse Buck (Main Event 
9/4/94)
Dustin Rhodes, Sting & Ricky Steamboat vs. Arn Anderson, Terry Funk & Bunkhouse 
Buck (Main Event 9/11/94)
Dustin Rhodes, Dusty Rhodes & Nasty Boys Interview (WCWSN 9/17/94)
Wargames (Fall Brawl 9/18/94) 

Disc 12

Dustin Rhodes & Nasty Boys vs. Arn Anderson, Bunkhouse Buck & Tom Parker 
(Handheld 10/15/94)
Dustin Rhodes vs. Arn Anderson (Havoc 10/23/94)
Dustin Rhodes & Dusty Rhodes Interview (WCWSN 11/5/94)
Dustin Rhodes & Sting vs. Arn Anderson & Bunkhouse Buck (Main Event 11/6/94)
Dustin Rhodes vs. Big Van Vader (Clash 11/16/94) 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Vader (WCWSN 12/17/94) 
Dustin Rhodes vs. Arn Anderson (Pro 2/4/95)
Dustin Rhodes, Sting & Randy Savage vs. Bunkhouse Buck, Dick Slater & Blacktop 
Bully (WCWSN 2/4/95)
Dustin Rhodes vs. Bunkhouse Buck (Main Event 2/5/95)
Dustin Rhodes vs. Blacktop Bully (Superbrawl 2/19/95) 
Dustin Rhodes & Johnny B Badd vs. Arn Anderson & Blacktop Bully (Main Event 
2/26/95)
Dustin Rhodes vs. Blacktop Bully (King of the Road) (Uncensored 3/19/95)



Im going to at least try and watch some of his '92 soon.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Austin's 1992 was pretty unusual. If you disregard all those Dangerous Alliance matches, he wasn't very good in singles matches. Part of the problem seemed to be that Austin was trying to wrestle like MVP; instead of wrestling in a fashion that fits who he is, Austin wrestled a style that he felt obligated to work. As a result, Austin's matches tended to be filled with restholds and disconnected offense without any crowd interaction or good brawling that we associate Austin with. By the second half of the year though, Austin finally got it, and he started to form his own style. I haven't checked out much of his 1993, but I'm sure this development in Austin is more pronounced then.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Dustin was my favorite WCW guy outside of Flair


WWE 1992 was great too


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

I feel pretty well-satured in early '90s WCW lately; I now turn my ever-expanding gaze to the WWF. Anybody have the Perfect/Doink and Doink/Jannetty series from '93?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bruce L said:


> I feel pretty well-satured in early '90s WCW lately; I now turn my ever-expanding gaze to the WWF. Anybody have the Perfect/Doink and Doink/Jannetty series from '93?


xpw3uu

Can't see the classic Marty/Doink 2/3 Falls match online. I have it, but can't upload it yet. @Big Cal's World has that super duper net, so maybe he can pull his finger out. :side:


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

There's a match that exists between Lawler and Owens/Steen? That intrigues me no matter how old Lawler would be if for nothing else style clash both in showmanship and general style.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Owens vs. Cena is awesome

I need a cigarette after that match and promo and I don't even smoke.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

WrestlingOracle said:


> There's a match that exists between Lawler and Owens/Steen? That intrigues me no matter how old Lawler would be if for nothing else style clash both in showmanship and general style.


It exists. Happened last year. Pretty good match too.

Owens/Cena was phenomenal outside of a couple annoying Cena-ish tendencies. Perfectly booked and Owens looks like a main event player in his first match on the main roster. Frontrunner for wrestler of the year.

Loved the opener too. It did have a couple of issues (Kalisto taking too long to set up spots, non-teammates interrupting pinfalls), but there were no lulls in the action and the match was tons of fun. What was most impressive though was the selling of everybody in the match. It could have been a generic spotfest that sacrificed substance, but everyone made it look as if the spots impacted them and hurt them severely. Titus O'Neil in particular did a great job of selling suffocation when he was choked next to the fence. Cesaro looked like a total beast too per usual. And teams such as the Ascension, Lucha Dragons, and Prime Time Players had an opportunity to showcase their abilities. Heels acted like heels and faces acted like faces. Great stuff.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Well, that was a money promo, but even without factoring that into the match, there were little flaws there ala some fluidity breaks with some slopiness and really telegraphed kickouts (need to take ol Stone Cold's advice and listen for the referee cadence instead of eyeing the ref making the kickout obvious and early), but still a great match. Owens had to make himself look like a million bucks to casual audiences there since I've been quite skeptical in my limited viewings of Owens and he sure showed me something. Great way to advertise NXT as well as perpetuate Owens as a real force. Real surprised by that clean result. Great booking and solid job to the agent. He wasn't on his best game, but Cena did in sections sell his ass off to help perpetuate Owens' ability there, and he deserves some credit there and again Owens looked like a million bucks. :clap: :clap: :clap: all around.

****1/4


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Excellent, excellent match.

****


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm in an absolute state of shock right now. That was... shocking and phenomenal to say the least. Wow.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Yep. Owens/Cena is ****1/4 from me, too.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Just a thought to even perpetuate it a little more even? how about that closing the show? I think we can see this Ambrose/Rollins match coming a mile away, nobody is gonna raise their stock coming out of it and even if Reigns were to by miniscule chance close heel? It won't be a million dollar showcase ala what we just saw. That would've been a perfect way both financially having people think "holy shit, if this is the caliber and quality of wrestlers/their prowess we get in their debut, I need to see them in their weekly environment" and just as the final, lasting impression as it goes to black with "damn that Owens is something." Would've been perfect.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm expecting Rollins/Ambrose to have a screwy finish so I'm hoping the IC Title Chamber main events. Interested to see who the last guy is too.

EDIT: So much for that. :lol


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

This is the worst chamber match I've ever seen. 

Note: I haven't watched the December to Dismember one.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

This Chamber match has like no heat to it but that was expected. Still can't get over how amazing Owens/Cena was so I don't care about this match at all. lol


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Holy hell this Chamber match is so bad. :lol


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Honestly did not expect this from the match. Just so bad. 

Who thought it'd be wise to put Henry in there over Wyatt?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

RatedR10 said:


> Honestly did not expect this from the match. Just so bad.
> 
> Who thought it'd be wise to put Henry in there over Wyatt?


I think it fucked up the flow of EVERYTHING when his glass broke and he entered way too early. He had no idea what to do.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeesh, that chamber match just didn't click until Sheamus came in. Mark Henry looked so bad out there. R Truth and Barrett served no purpose. Ryback lacked any sort of explosiveness. Ziggler was not bad but he recycled the superkick three times. Sheamus was the only one in that match that did well, but he did enough for me to not give it a super low rating.

:lol "The Ryback"


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

What the hell is going on tonight guys? What is this?

- PTP eliminate Cesaro & Kidd and last til the end of their Chamber match
- Kevin Owens pins John Cena CLEAN on PPV in his 3rd month with the company
- R-Truth eliminates the 2015 King of the Ring winner and he goes out first!
- Ryback wins the Intercontinental Title by pinning... Sheamus!?

Nothing else will surprise me tonight. I now expect Big Show to return and cost Seth Rollins the WWE Title. :lmao

EDIT: I LIED, Kofi fucking Kingston is in the MITB Ladder match... what the hell is this shit!? :lol


----------



## Jabroni Bologna (Jan 27, 2014)

kofi kingston? sheamus? he lost tonight why not ryback. why not bray, why not ambrose why not big e (if kofi is considered?


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I don't mind Kofi being in considering he is very likely the gateway for the very entertaining heel New Day to come in and inject comedy to the spotfest and Kofi is obviously the spot guy in the group. The opportunity for the comedy gold/triple team gives a different flavor even though no shot in hell of him winning. Questionable decisions otherwise though barring the obligatory vet in Orton. If that's the field I will push all my chips in on Roman Reigns.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

This is the flattest Ambrose/Rollins match. 

Fuck Corpus Christi.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Tag Team Elimination Chamber: ****1/2*
Naomi vs. Paige vs. Nikki Bella: *Everyone talks too much*
John Cena vs. Kevin Owens: *****1/4*
Neville vs. Bo Dallas: ***3/4*
Intercontinental Championship Elimination Chamber: *What happened?*
Dean Ambrose vs. Seth Rollins: ******

Overall good PPV with a horrid crowd.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Incredibly bizarre PPV. I believe Rollins/Ambrose suffered by having them force the length. They basically _had_ to go 20+ minutes when they work better at a faster pace.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Fuck man I marked so hard for Ambrose winning. Fuck that DQ noise. 

WWE actually has me cheering for Reigns, too.

Tag Title EC: ***1/2
Divas title: 3/4*
Owens/Cena: ****1/4
Neville/Dallas: NA, didn't watch
IC Title EC: *3/4
Ambrose/Rollins: ***1/2


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Boy was that an underwhelming mess of a show.

Tag EC: ***
Divas 3 way: *1/4
Cena/Owens: ***1/4
Neville/Bo: *1/2
IC EC: *1/2(fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck this match)
Rollins/Ambrose: **1/4

Corpus Christi: -*******************


----------



## cena542007 (Apr 1, 2007)

Elimination Chamber 2015:
***1/4 - Tag Team Chamber Match
3/4* - Nikki Bella(c) vs. Naomi vs. Paige
***3/4 - Kevin Owens vs. John Cena
*1/2 - Bo Dallas vs. Neville
**1/2 - Intercontinental Championship Chamber Match
*** - Dean Ambrose vs. Seth Rollins(c)

Overall: ***

Second worst PPV of the year next to Royal Rumble, but still a decent show.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*Elimination Chamber 2015*:
Tag team Chamber- **3/4
Nikki Bella vs Naomi vs Paige- loldidn'twatch
Kevin Owens vs John Cena- ****1/4
Bo Dallas vs Neville- ***
Intercontinental Chamber match- DUD
Dean Ambrose vs Seth Rollins- **1/4

Forgettable show outside of Owens/Cena. The card looked promising on paper but just didn't deliver.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yikes, am I the only one that really liked the ending to the main event? Protects Rollins and gives him some more heat, puts Ambrose over, sets up a gimmick match, adds to Ambrose's character, and Reigns gets cheered thanks to this association with Ambrose.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Gonna go ahead and say the streak of good WWE PPVs was put to an end tonight. It wasn't bad, but it was so completely bizarre and... unpredictable I guess.

*Tag Team Title Elimination Chamber*
New Day (c) vs. Lucha Dragons vs. Primetime Players vs. Cesaro & Kidd vs. Los Matadores vs. The Ascension - *** (This wasn't great but it wasn't bad either. People scaling the chamber at every moment was neat but there was a good bit of downtime and little heat for the eliminations. Titus & Cesaro had good showings. SHOCKED that PTP got the rollup on Cesaro, but I don't think anyone bought into them winning afterwards. Finish was shit. #GiveBlackGuysAChance though. :lmao)

*Divas Championship*
Nikki Bella (c) vs. Paige vs. Naomi - * 1/2 (Why this felt rushed despite there only being 6 matches on the card I don't understand. With these matches they try to throw in big MOVES~ instead of telling a story or pacing it correctly. Had some botches too. LOLNIKKIWINS yet again. What was the point of this Naomi push again? :shrug)

John Cena vs. Kevin Owens - **** (In the early minutes of this I wasn't really feelin it. Owens on offense was just forearms and headlocks, but it developed into quite the exciting battle of big moves and nearfalls. Owens pretty much emptied out his entire arsenal and it was pretty awesome. SHOCKED by the finish. So shocked. Cena with another great match this year... :CENA)

Bo Dallas vs. Neville - N/R (I didn't watch this. How could I after Owens just fucking beat John Cena? )

*Intercontinental Title Elimination Chamber*
Sheamus vs. Ryback vs. R-Truth vs. Mark Henry vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. King Barrett - * 1/4 (The fuck was this? No flow, heat, or rhythm at all. Henry's glass broke on his pod and he had no idea what to do the whole match. Ziggler laid around for minutes at a time, as did everyone else honestly. Sheamus at least tried to give you a good performance and the last couple minutes were watchable enough, but the rest of this stunk the joint up. Barrett getting eliminated by Truth shows how you much faith they have in the guy)

*WWE World Championship*
Seth Rollins (c) vs. Dean Ambrose - ** 3/4 (I quite frankly didn't think this was up to par as most of their other matches were. I didn't like how they basically had to go 20+ minutes and I lost interest when the pace was slowed. Got exciting when the pace quickened but I didn't care much for the finishing stretch. Ambrose no selling the flurry off the buckle bomb was an annoyance and I kinda got sick of seeing rebound lariat attempts. Maybe I'm a sourpuss or something, but this felt flat and the finish was just... odd to say the least. I didn't know how to react.)


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Yikes, am I the only one that really liked the ending to the main event? Protects Rollins and gives him some more heat, puts Ambrose over, sets up a gimmick match, adds to Ambrose's character, and Reigns gets cheered thanks to this association with Ambrose.


it was so ridiculously unnecessary. Give Ambrose the moment, build to a ladder match at MITB where the numbers game catches up to Ambrose (handcuffed to the ropes or something) and have Rollins regain. That can build some heat on Rollins and The Authority. Set up some more issues between Rollins/Kane leading to Kane lifting Lesnar's suspension and eventually making that match for Battleground. The ending was a-fucking-trocious.

EDIT: think I'm changing my Ambrose/Rollins rating to something in the *** - ***1/4 range. I think I tacked on ***1/2 because of my excitement seeing Ambrose "win" the title and pin Rollins (again, for an 8 count this time) :lmao agreed that they work better in a faster setting where they're working for 15 minutes instead of 20+.

I'm assuming we see a ladder match in two weeks (fuck, WWE isn't giving us a break with these PPVs).


----------



## Paul Rudd (Oct 23, 2010)

Pretty poor show IMO. I think the crowd was to blame, but everything except Cena vs Owens felt flat and sluggish.

Tag titles **1/4 - This match felt way too contrived and anticlimactic, plus the crowd was dead.
Divas *1/2 - Was boring and sloppy.
Owens vs Cena **** - Great atmosphere for this match; it was a total spotfest, but a great one. I popped for the finish.
Bo vs Nev *3/4 - Nothing match with a dead crowd.
IC Chamber * - This match was a painful tedious disaster; I just wanted it to end. Also WTF was up with all the roll ups?
Seth vs Dean ** - Pretty underwhelming. I was happy at the start because it looked like they were going to have a straight wrestling match for a change, but then everything fell flat and the usual shenanigans ensued. I totally missed the ref bump, I must have blinked or something, so I thought Dean legitimately won the title with that bizarre 8 count pin. I thought they really made Seth look weak in defeat, but now that he still has the belt he just looks like a slimy heel :rollins.

So yeah, pretty meh show IMO; loved Owens vs Cena though.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Owens/Cena was fucking great. Both wrestlers looked exceptionally well, especially Owens. I loved Owens in this match especially when he started showing disrespect to Cena from the trash talking while punching him to executing an AA and trying to do the 5-Knuckle Shuffle. Owens plays his role so well, it's scary. Cena did great as well making Owens look like a million bucks and really sold his offense quite well. This match had great back and forth action with both men throwing out some crazy moves such as Owens' top rope brainbuster and Cena's springboard stunner (still looks like shit but what can you do lol) and there were parts where I marked out (that Package Piledriver tease :mark. Owens going over was the right move and that could really help solidify him as the top heel of the company which I know he has the ability to be. Plus, it makes NXT look good since he's the NXT Champion. Great match all in all.

Ambrose/Rollins was a nice match, though admittedly not their best. It had some good back and forth action as expected when these two are facing off. I fucking knew when Ambrose got the pin that it was going to result in a Dusty finish but at least now there's video proof of Ambrose holding the WWE World Heavyweight Championship. This will probably lead to dumb segments of Ambrose/Rollins trying to outsteal each other but what can you do? It's WWE.

Rest of the card was boo boo, especially the Elimination Chamber matches. The tag team Elimination Chamber match was whatever, nothing special but that Intercontinental Championship Elimination Chamber match? Got damn embarrassing. Tied for WOAT Elimination Chamber match ever alongside the December to Dismember match. I can't recall an Elimination Chamber match that bored me like the Intercontinental Championship match. What makes it more disappointing to me was that I liked most of the participants and I thought it had a chance to be good. I was wrong.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Owen/Cena was awesome. Everything else was pretty meh. Actually the IC Title EC was good, Barrett was the only one that put in a good performance. After he was eliminated, the match was a big blob of nothingness. I liked Ryback winning though. Definitely beats Sheamus, that's for sure.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

EC Chamber Ratings (what I watched)

Tag Team Chamber ***3/4*
Cena/Owens ******
Ambrose/Rollins ****1/4*

This was basically a throw away PPV, the times we are living when the Elimination Chamber is a throw away PPV. I liked the Chamber part for the most part. They had some cool spots here and there and it kept my attention.

Cena/Owens was MOTN. Good God, Owens is deceptively agile and athletic. I always knew these two would have great chemistry and this match proved it. Can't wait for their re-match

Ambrose/Rollins was a mixed bag but with more good than bad. Selling was a bit spotty and if they have a re-match Ambrose's lariat needs to be banned lol. I lost track of how many there were. Still a really solid match imo and I quite liked the ending. I had fun watching this match.

I didn't get to see the IC chamber but Ryback wining is enough to make me not give a fuck to even watch it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Owen/Cena was awesome. Everything else was pretty meh. *Actually the IC Title EC was good*, Barrett was the only one that put in a good performance. After he was eliminated, the match was a big blob of nothingness. I liked Ryback winning though. Definitely beats Sheamus, that's for sure.


You must've been watching a different match.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

IC EC chamber was horrid. Almost fell asleep during.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> You must've been watching a different match.


lmao, might have been the worst match in relation to expectations ever. I was floored by how awful it was. It turned into about a two hour match for me, because I kept stopping it and doing other stuff because I was so bored by it.

It also seemed disoriented and disjointed. Maybe it's my fault for not paying attention, but I don't get the point of the Sheamus door thing. It'd make sense if HE was the one to cause the blockage, and maybe that's what they were insinuating, but it didn't come off that way with the tiny cross.

So I take it it's more like he could have _stopped_ the blockage earlier, but was too chickenshit until he saw a good opportunity?

The fact that I'm even questioning it shows that it wasn't well executed. Or again, maybe it's just that I was so zoning out.

Why the fuck were people breaking up pins randomly? Why the hell did they look like they were gonna team up, but then were just awkwardly standing there?

Why the fuck do you barely give time to the people who can actually wrestle in that match?

So many questions.

WHERE THE HELL WERE THE WYATTS?!?!?!

I also don't know what was up with the mics tonight, because you could hear everyone talking. Ziggler was directing pretty much everything when he was in the ring, including even having to tell Henry to stay put.

Something was just very off about the whole thing, like they all randomly just decided to come out and have a match, with no real plan.

I mean, you have a bunch of heavyweights in there. Have them beat the shit out of each other. Is even THAT so hard to pull off? Goodness.

Only good thing about the match was Ziggler's performance (his ragdoll quality was good here, especially since he was taking so much abuse...though there was a point where he was abused on the floor and I swear Ryback did NOTHING for what felt like eight minutes), and I remember a White Noise spot that was pretty good.

Owens' win was cool, but I was like "well, Cena will get his win back in a rematch." Actually lol'ed when they showed the graphic during the same damn show.

Though actually, I think there's gonna be some kind of dirty or unclear outcome in the rematch, because I think they're gonna drag this feud out over a bunch of PPVs.

Owens/Cena was the clear MOTN, everything else was kind of meh, though there were aspects of Ambrose/Rollins that I liked. Fuckery at the end made me laugh. I like how I just knew there would be nonsense, because I couldn't even imagine a world where they would really give the win to Ambrose.

That tag team match was a real disappointment. So many entertaining things they could have done, but they missed every opportunity. Only thing good to come of it was that the Ascension actually looked like a legit, decent, tag team for a bit.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

Ambrose really shouldn't be wrestling matches longer than 10-15 minutes.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

As much as I enjoyed Cena/Owens, and I enjoyed it a lot, I'm now convinced that John Cena doesn't know how to work a match without spamming finishers and kickouts to a ridiculous level. Don't get me wrong, it's highly enjoyable but I reached a point during that match where I was rolling my eyes at the silliness of both of them kicking out of _everything_. The finish was brilliant however and Owens booking so far has been perfect. If only Cena hadn't shouted his spots to the 10th row this could have been something of a modern classic. But I heard him calling the leap frog, among other things, and admittedly it did take me out of the moment every time I heard him talking. In saying all of that I still enjoyed this so much and I'm willing to look past the issues and slap ****** on it. It will likely stay there or come down once the shock of Owens actually winning wears off but this was still really good, obvious spot calling and finisher spam aside. 

The IC Chamber was a fucking mess. :lmao Worst match I've seen in a LONG time. Disoriented, boring, nobody made much of an effort, completely paint by numbers and uninspired. Tag match put it to shame. Haven't watched Rollins/Ambrose yet and I don't know if I will. I'm kind of burned out on those 2 right now. They're becoming the new Cena/Orton which is scary considering they've only been proper main eventers for about a year. And I never really noticed it before but Paige is kind of awful. She was outclassed by Nikki and Naomi by quite a margin imo. When did that happen? I don't remember Paige being spectacular or anything but I don't remember her being this shit either.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *Intercontinental Title Elimination Chamber*
> Sheamus vs. Ryback vs. R-Truth vs. Mark Henry vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. King Barrett - * 1/4 (The fuck was this? No flow, heat, or rhythm at all. *Henry's glass broke on his pod and he had no idea what to do the whole match.* Ziggler laid around for minutes at a time, as did everyone else honestly. Sheamus at least tried to give you a good performance and the last couple minutes were watchable enough, but the rest of this stunk the joint up. Barrett getting eliminated by Truth shows how you much faith they have in the guy)


I'm wondering if it really was unintentional now. I just assumed it was intentional, but maybe if it wasn't, that explains why Henry & everyone else looked so lost. Also explains why Henry was doing stupid shit the whole match. Boy, that really pissed me off. 

lmao at Barrett getting eliminated by Truth. Didn't even make note of that, that's how distracted I was by all the other bad shit in the match.



RatedR10 said:


> it was so ridiculously unnecessary. Give Ambrose the moment, build to a ladder match at MITB where the numbers game catches up to Ambrose (handcuffed to the ropes or something) and have Rollins regain. That can build some heat on Rollins and The Authority. Set up some more issues between Rollins/Kane leading to Kane lifting Lesnar's suspension and eventually making that match for Battleground. The ending was a-fucking-trocious.
> 
> EDIT: think I'm changing my Ambrose/Rollins rating to something in the *** - ***1/4 range. I think I tacked on ***1/2 because of my excitement seeing Ambrose "win" the title and pin Rollins (again, for an 8 count this time) :lmao agreed that they work better in a faster setting where they're working for 15 minutes instead of 20+.
> 
> I'm assuming we see a ladder match in two weeks (fuck, WWE isn't giving us a break with these PPVs).


I didn't personally have a problem with it, mainly because I expected it. But you're right. This is the same thing that made the Bryan chase so annoying and redundant, and why audiences genuinely got fed up, until they righted the wrong the next year.

It loses impact after awhile when you do stuff like that. I see funnyfaces' point, especially since they really had no intention of _really_ putting the title on Ambrose. But I also see how audiences can quickly lose interest, when they get the sense that it's all going to just be a ploy, with no real intention of backing from the office.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

@Jack Evans 187, thank you for that Marufuji match! Watched it and liked it. That move Kashin did straight off the top rope right into the arm bar was sick.




Fighter Daron said:


> That third [Devitt vs. Marufuji] match is on Dominion, one of the 5 most important shows in NJPW all year, so it should be easy to find, but I don't have it. I'm really glad you liked it.


Thanks, that was helpful. I found it streaming that way.

Match was incredible again. Devitt did a great sell job, and Marufuji is so damn smooth. When he countered the attempted hip toss straight into that roll into the figure four...I marked hard.

Literally every match, he has me proclaiming "oh!" at some weird shit he does. And not in a spotty way. What it is, is that where other people do normal spots, and where there's a place for it...he does things in such an unexpected way.

When looking up his matches, I saw someone on another board who said that Marufuji's style makes him very polarizing, in part because he seems to be making things up on the fly. That's true, and that's one of the reasons why I like him. He has a freewheeling sort of vibe. One where I'm genuinely surprised many times throughout each match, and I like not knowing what to expect _at all_. That's not usually a thing that draws me in, but it is with him, because it fits and it's usually done in a way that a moment would call for, and is at the appropriate time. 

I don't find that it's often done in a sheer spotty sense. It's not at all just about the moves (never been a movez! person), because he does it with the transitions, and he even puts his own little spin on submissions. Most of all, it's the counters that are just tremendous. 

I feel like the guy is _constantly_ creating during matches, and perhaps that may be what gets in the way of what some would like. I just get the impression that he puts the most importance on instinctively creating his way to the end result, so that lack of preparation may make the journey a little less palatable than the approach of most wrestlers. However, that's a big part of the reason why I find him so fascinating, because he & his matches are never, ever, predictable for me, and I can't say that about virtually any other wrestler on the planet. There's not a template, and there's such versatility throughout his many different matches with various different opponents.

There's also the speed with which he does things, that contributes to the "never saw it coming" feeling. It's such a disconnect when I go back to watching others, especially others in America. There's not a moment of hesitation or awkwardness when Marufuji goes into his counters, even when it's something he seems to be genuinely making up at the moment.

As an aside, Neville is also really good at that speed and seamlessness btw, and I think that a lot of the WWE wrestlers can't keep up with him, because they are so not used to being challenged that way. 

On a random note, also watched Naomichi Marufuji & KENTA vs. Jushin Liger & Takehiro Murahama - 7/16/2003 and Marufuji does this super quick, spin, tackle, takedown of Murahama and then starts beating the shit out of him...twas glorious, and I feel like people here would probably hate Murahama, lol. 

But mainly, I like how the refs there will actually literally hold your fist to prevent a punch. Cute touch. 

Also, I mentioned before how Marufuji is always doing shit on the apron and side. It's funny, because I was watching a few of these matches with someone the other day, and they were like "that's [the side/apron] his expertise." Made me lol, because it's like, is that something you put on a resume? lol.

And yeah, despite me feeling like his strength isn't just movez!, they are cool. The aforementioned person said "it's like he thinks he's in a video game!" Said with awe, btw. 

He does treat his body that way, and does things that you wouldn't even imagine coming up with, if you hadn't seen him do it first. 



Yeah1993 said:


> Funnyfaces wrote in a thread (not this one) not long ago that "we all tolerate some no sellng" and he is completely, totally, correct


Accurate, but I think what's most accurate is "we all tolerate x if we like y." I think that pertty much sums up all opinions on wrestling everywhere.

Like what you're saying about the Marufuji/KENTA match might have really annoyed me, if I didn't have all of the other stuff I liked about it, you know? If I wasn't so taken with Marufuji's demeanor in the first place, I probably would have been much more on the look out or focused on the negative stuff.

So for people who didn't care about the stuff that I cared about, that stood out for them more. 

It's why people can be really inconsistent with what they'll tolerate in one match, but not the other. It comes off as hypocrisy, bias, etc., but when you really think about it, it boils down to that they found other things that outweighed the negative.

It's like earlier I said that it was weird to me that no one complains about Steen's usage of headlocks in NXT, when that's usually a big complaint that people have...but I guess they feel that everything else about Steen's performances make that a non-issue for them. 

Whereas if you don't give a shit about a wrestler or a match, you're going to find something like that really annoying.



> Oh, yeah, i'm saying the same thing (but in reverse). I have just passionately hated Marufuji a half-decade. :mark:


lol, who knew it would be YOU of all people?! He just seems like such a random wrestler to hate to me. But I get why he would be polarizing based on what I mentioned earlier, but _hate_? lol, just seems kind of random compared to the usual hate worthy suspects.



Yeah1993 said:


> Haven't seen a puro match since 2012.


lmao, what _do_ you watch? I swear, every comment ever from you, is about you not having seen something. Have you watched the Punk/Brock match yet, btw? :carra





Yeah1993 said:


> I've seen probably three Marufuji matches I thought were actually pretty good. Against Kobashi, against Taue, and w/KENTA against Misawa and Ogawa. I don't remember thinking Marufuji was good in any of them though.


Watched these matches (well, already saw the Taue one) based on your backhanded recommendations here. Enjoyed them, and thought Marufuji was good in the match against Kobashi & brilliant in the match against Taue, you fucker. 

Thanks. 



Yeah1993 said:


> (and KENTA can be reallllllllly good).


Glad we agree on this one, and we will agree on Marufuji eventually :rubs hands together: ... But yeah. I think KENTA was shat on here before, and I really don't get that at all. He very much impresses me, especially when he goes against big guys. One of the most believable smaller guys that there is, and I live for his intensity and strikes. Very, very, clean and he has a lot of finesse, and that's a big thing with me.

Controversial statement #20 , but I don't give a shit, but after watching a lot of KENTA, Punk comes off as such a piss poor imitation in my eyes (still love him). His style is very derivative of KENTA's, but without much of the actual ability. He's obviously got great other qualities that KENTA doesn't have, but man. If you could combine Punk's personality in the ring with KENTA's execution...you'd have some scary good wrestler.

I think you mentioned the January 2006 match between KENTA and Marufuji. It was a negative from you, I'm sure, but I enjoyed KENTA being a dick there. When he slapped Marufuji on the non-clean break, and then looked at Marufuji like _he_ did something wrong, I lol'ed.

KENTA's got a really likeable personality outside of wrestling from what I've seen, but I like that his style in the ring comes across as much more forceful. Doesn't really match his look, which I like.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> You must've been watching a different match.


Sorry, meant I thought it was "good" (although actually more like decent) to that point I mentioned, and then got really bad. As a whole I agree in general that it was horrible. It's what I get for typing that on my phone.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Barrett should just quit, he gets buried every damn time. Every gimmick change (and there's been 100 of them) he gets buried.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Owens/Cena good. Owens win. Awesome. Rematch at MITB where Cena will likely get his win back? Bad.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

LilOlMe said:


> Accurate, but I think what's most accurate is "we all tolerate x if we like y." I think that pertty much sums up all opinions on wrestling everywhere.


mmmmmmmmaybe. I mean there's a Goldberg/La Parka match that is literally ten seconds of Goldberg no selling a chair shot to the head and winning the match. Do I tolerate it? I guess? I mean, I didn't hate it, but I don't know why. I'm a fan of both guys so that might help. Still, objectively, I think it's kind of terrible.

Might not be what you're saying, IDK. Might depend if X is happening during Y, or X ruins Y. There are like three Guerrero/Malenko matches from 97 where Eddie works the leg and Malenko blows it all off once he gets on top. Actually dropped my opinion on the matches quite a bit. They were on their way to excellent.



LilOlMe said:


> Like what you're saying about the Marufuji/KENTA match might have really annoyed me, if I didn't have all of the other stuff I liked about it, you know? If I wasn't so taken with Marufuji's demeanor in the first place, I probably would have been much more on the look out or focused on the negative stuff.


Oh, yeah, prob should have read this before trying to understand the X/Y thing. But no, I get that. I'm not accusing you of being bias or anything, but, I also don't think there's really anything wrong with that. I am ultra dorky so when I make a list or something I sometimes think way too hard if I'm ranking a match higher based on my own personal feelings and how that might not be fair, and I kind of feel bad. I think I can be objective *enough*, though. My WWE 2010 list would be wayyyy different otherwise. I'd love to take Michaels/Taker off of it because I'm just sick of that match but I can't do it. I might feel kinda bias about the top of the list but I'd probably drop Rey/Punk from OTL ten spots if I realllly was. 



LilOlMe said:


> So for people who didn't care about the stuff that I cared about, that stood out for them more.
> 
> It's why people can be really inconsistent with what they'll tolerate in one match, but not the other. It comes off as hypocrisy, bias, etc., but when you really think about it, it boils down to that they found other things that outweighed the negative.


Again I try to be objective (and I'm assuming most do), but, being real, who is 100% objective? So this is true, I guess. Still, I'm not 100% sure I can think of a broad example. My mind wandered to Eddie/Angle at SummerSlam 04 b/c a while back people were calling it Angle dragging Eddie down, and I truly thought Eddie may have been worse than Angle in the match. And I love Eddie Guerrero, duh. But man that's probably a bad example because I didn't actually like *anything* about it. I guess Goldberg/Parka is an example again. Parka is an incredible personalty and Goldberg has monster presence so I found it absurdly fun to see him no-sell the chair headshot and wipe Park out. Still I don't really think that that's any less on an offense than Marufuji getting up from a German. It was fun and all but I won't pretend it's something it wasn't - good. (this would work better with a match that lasts longer that ten seconds but i just came online to pull up a FFVIII walkthrough and you roped me in THANKS)

I'm really not trying to suggest that just because you (or me or anyone) are self-aware of biases that you (or me/anyone) should say that what you liked might not've been objectively good. I'm just saying it.....can.....be done. I think that's what I'm saying?



LilOlMe said:


> It's like earlier I said that it was weird to me that no one complains about Steen's usage of headlocks in NXT, when that's usually a big complaint that people have...but I guess they feel that everything else about Steen's performances make that a non-issue for them.
> 
> Whereas if you don't give a shit about a wrestler or a match, you're going to find something like that really annoying.


I see what you're saying and I've kind of been agreeing, but I just cannot think of an example where I enjoy anything near what Marufuji and KENTA were doing. MAYBE some 90s joshi. MAYBE. And that may just prove you right because while you find Marufuji to have some mystical aura that he has never had (MIDDLE FINGER!), I like Japanese women enough that I'd apologise to one for my house being flammable if she burnt my house down.

Fuck, though, still.........I absolutely hated watching 90s joshi-ers no sell shit all over the place. Someone like Manami Toyota at least can really try to make the no-selling look like a burst of energy but screw that noise, it's awful. Don't care how cute she is. Burn my house down all you want but when the police arrive to beat you with a stick you better sell it.

what the hell is my point again?



LilOlMe said:


> lol, who knew it would be YOU of all people?! He just seems like such a random wrestler to hate to me. But I get why he would be polarizing based on what I mentioned earlier, but _hate_? lol, just seems kind of random compared to the usual hate worthy suspects.


I'm no originator to Marufuji hatred. I mean it's not like I watched him just to hate him like whoever else hated him but what are you talking about i fuckin hate everyone. 

Is it really out of the realm of possibility though? I don't know exactly how much you read w/out posting but surely you've seen me rip into Angle or any other no-selly guy (usu I try to make that sound kind of less pretentious but I haven't even opened up the FFVIII walkthrough yet). I guess I like Marufuji less than almost anybody who does that but he's cut from the same 300 year old piss-stained cloth (MIDDLE FINGER!!!)




LilOlMe said:


> lmao, what _do_ you watch? I swear, every comment ever from you, is about you not having seen something. Have you watched the Punk/Brock match yet, btw? :carra


I better not watch Punk/Lesnar b/c I'll only have it as a top 80 WWE match of all time and everyone else has it at #6 or something and they'll think I friggin' hate it.

I usually say "not seen _this_" b/c most of the talk in here is about WWE from the past few years. And look how goddamn slowly I'm going through 2010. The company will be dead before I catch up. :lmao




LilOlMe said:


> Watched these matches (well, already saw the Taue one) based on your backhanded recommendations here. Enjoyed them, and thought Marufuji was good in the match against Kobashi & brilliant in the match against Taue, you fucker.


I found a post from 2012 or something where I said Marufuji might be legitimately pretty good in the Taue match or something. So, that's ONE. Maybe two from the 7/16/06 tag, but IDRR.




LilOlMe said:


> Glad we agree on this one, and we will agree on Marufuji eventually :rubs hands together: ... But yeah. I think KENTA was shat on here before, and I really don't get that at all. He very much impresses me, especially when he goes against big guys. One of the most believable smaller guys that there is, and I live for his intensity and strikes. Very, very, clean and he has a lot of finesse, and that's a big thing with me.


Oh don't get me wrong at his worst I think he is Marufuji-level scumsuck. But no, all he needs is a guy that'll force him to act the underdog and he's irreplaceable. You should watch KENTA/SUWA 9/18/05. SUWA is an honest-to-God heel, and the match is almost like a Rey Mysterio main event.




LilOlMe said:


> Controversial statement #20 , but I don't give a shit, but after watching a lot of KENTA, Punk comes off as such a piss poor imitation in my eyes (still love him). His style is very derivative of KENTA's, but without much of the actual ability. He's obviously got great other qualities that KENTA doesn't have, but man. If you could combine Punk's personality in the ring with KENTA's execution...you'd have some scary good wrestler.


I've said this a bunch. Well, about early WWE Punk, anyway. Punk in 2006-07 was pretty much taking bad KENTA spots and executing them way more badly than KENTA. He was just doing this weirdo judo shitty shit that just never fit him at all. I think it was the CHAVO feud that saved him. PRAISE BE CHAVO!!!!!!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I was thinking last night and Ambrose/Rollins reminded me so much of the Orton/Bryan main events from 2013. They're capable of putting on good-to-great matches but the pacing on having to go 20+ minutes really hurt them (imo), the crowd was kinda meh, and the screwy finish didn't help things. 

@LilOlMe, man I wish I could rep you after all the truthful things you mentioned from the PPV.  I also noticed people talking in like EVERY match. Actually if you ever rewatch Cena/Owens you'll hear Cena basically yelling in Kevin's ear within the first couple minutes. Henry's glass breaking couldn't have been intentional. He looked so lost immediately after it happened and they absolutely should not have brought out Ryback afterwards. Two people came in within 30 seconds and then they all just started at each other. :lol I do believe Sheamus was blocking the door on purpose the whole time too, btw. I don't think it was pulled off well in the slightest but there was at least some effort from Sheamus to make something in this match memorable. I just saw this last night and I don't even remember how Truth or Henry got eliminated...

Glad you enjoyed that Marufuji tag though!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Owens/Cena was great. everything else sucked. They have destroyed Dolph Ziggler


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

the talking in cena/owens was hilarious, loudest cena calls ive heard in a while :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Good to see that Yeah1993 and I agree on Joshi. And of course Marufuji.

I didn't really mind the pacing of last night's main event mainly because of how much I loved Rollins' control segment. The man was able to draw heat just from staring into blank space from the shittiest crowd in the world. Rollins is so good at cutting off a babyface's momentum. He also has a nice array of offense and the way he takes control of a match showcases his intelligence and cunning. And I guess I'm the remaining person that prefers Ambrose's rebound clothesline over Nigel's. Still stand by my assessment of the match ending, but I was also the only one that loved the ending to the Orton/Bryan NoC 2013 match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Good to see that Yeah1993 and I agree on Joshi. And of course Marufuji.
> 
> I didn't really mind the pacing of last night's main event mainly because of how much I loved Rollins' control segment. The man was able to draw heat just from staring into blank space from the shittiest crowd in the world. Rollins is so good at cutting off a babyface's momentum. He also has a nice array of offense and the way he takes control of a match showcases his intelligence and cunning. And I guess I'm the remaining person that prefers Ambrose's rebound clothesline over Nigel's. Still stand by my assessment of the match ending, but *I was also the only one that loved the ending to the Orton/Bryan NoC 2013 match*.


I think the rebound lariat is a fun staple in his arsenal but someone should watch the match back and count how many times he tried it (including the ones on the outside). I know it had to have been at least 5.  I got kinda sick of seeing it. Probably doesn't help that Kyle O'Reilly uses it too so I see it all the time from both.

That's where Big Show runs down and knocks everyone out and no one knows what the hell the end of the match was right? Yeah I fuckin hated that. :lol Didn't the crowd demand refunds or was that Battleground when it was a fast count or something? I get them mixed up but both endings were ASS. Hell in a Cell's ending even left a bad taste in my mouth. That damn feud...


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It was Battleground that you were thinking of :lol. That one was terrible. They should have just made it a triple threat if they were gonna put Big Show in it. My question though is that if you guys don't like endings such as NoC 13 or last night, then what would be your solution? Victory for the babyface? That just kills the story right there, and we've seen enough of that story from John Cena all these years. Heel winning cleanly? That hurts the babyface. Another dirty finish? Well be specific if that's the case. It sounds like a lot of people don't know what they want.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> It was Battleground that you were thinking of :lol. That one was terrible. They should have just made it a triple threat if they were gonna put Big Show in it. My question though is that if you guys don't like endings such as NoC 13 or last night, then what would be your solution? Victory for the babyface? That just kills the story right there, and we've seen enough of that story from John Cena all these years. Heel winning cleanly? That hurts the babyface. Another dirty finish? Well be specific if that's the case. It sounds like a lot of people don't know what they want.


I didn't necessarily _dislike_ the finish, I just thought it came off really oddly. When Ambrose got the 3 count, my gf and I just stared at the screen blankly and said "that's it...? He just won the WWE Title off of _THAT_!?" Had the ref been out sooner to make the count and I still felt the emotion off the dirty deeds it would've been better, but Rollins was down for like a 7 count and I don't think that helps the champ at all. He got beat twice in the count cadence and then stared at Ambrose like a pussy while he walked off with his title. Rollins getting help and the way he's been booked as champ hasn't bothered me at all up until to this point but I don't think he benefited from anything that happened last night, honestly.

My biggest problem with the last couple minutes as I stated before was Ambrose no-selling the fuck out of that buckle bomb. He took a dive and a few kicks and then the buckle bomb and acted like NOTHING happened. He just started running around hitting people and I was like 'what the fuck, I'm not supposed to see this stuff in WWE'. Between that and the spamming of the rebound lariat last night, I was questioning if he belonged in that main event spot... :$


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So I got word this morning that I'll be traveling up to Akron, OH to work all next week (Monday June 8th - Friday or Saturday June 12/13th). About a 5 hour drive and I've never been to Ohio, so I'm kind of excited. Gonna be rackin up the OT too, but anyway. For shits and gigs I decided to check out the touring schedules for a bunch of wrestling companies, and look at this shit! It's like destiny is telling me to go to one of these. 

Friday, June 12th - NXT in Cleveland, OH
Saturday, June 13th - WWE Live in Dayon, OH
Saturday, June 13th - WWE Live in Columbus, OH
Sunday, June 14th - Money in the Bank PPV in Columbus, OH

Akron is only 45 minutes from Cleveland! Man that would be awesome to check out that NXT show.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Owens/Cena was great. I'd give it **** and it could have been more if the spot calling wasn't so damn loud, the crowd was hotter and the commentary was better, I do factor those as key elements to a match.

It's a shame there will be a re-match though, it sort of goes against Owens' character too seeing as he's been about earning opportunities but Cena has hardly earned a rematch after being laid out twice on Raw and losing clean at the Elimination Chamber. It should have gone down with Owens denying Cena any chance of a rematch and entering himself into Money in the Bank.

I am so excited for potential feuds with Owens on the main roster and the guy still holds the damn NXT title. It'll be interesting to see how it goes down in NXT too. He's just beaten the face of the company clean. Whoever beats him for the NXT title is going to look pretty special, which is why I hope they go with Balor beating him and not Joe and just have Joe/Owens as a match (after Joe costs him the match?).


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Met Foley last week. Pic below and such a personable guy. His daughter was there too who is just stunning in person. 

I have watched Mind Games vs HBK a few times since then and got to pick his brain about it which was cool. I am going the full 5 on it. Nothing about the match I don't like even though it has a screwy ending. Forgot to ask him if the hardcore title was the title Mr. Perfect smashed on SNME back in the day.


----------



## mezomi (Jul 13, 2013)

Tag Team Elimination Chamber: ****1/4*
Naomi vs. Paige vs. Nikki Bella: **1/2*
John Cena vs. Kevin Owens:* *****
Neville vs. Bo Dallas: ****
Intercontinental Championship Elimination Chamber: ***1/2*
Dean Ambrose vs. Seth Rollins: ****3/4*

Anyone disagree?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Spoiler: Crazy match that was taped for Superstars



Samoa Joe vs. Tyson Kidd. They put that on SUPERSTARS!? Wow... it may end up just being a dark match but that's huge


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Spoiler: Crazy match that was taped for Superstars
> 
> 
> 
> Samoa Joe vs. Tyson Kidd. They put that on SUPERSTARS!? Wow... it may end up just being a dark match but that's huge


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just watched Owens/Cena. That may legit be my new MotY. Brock/Reigns and Brock/Cena/Rollins are its only competition but I didn't get as gittery/excited during either of those matches as I did for Owens/Cena.

Some people will take off marks for all the kick outs, and I can't really say why it didn't bother me at all in this match like it normally would, but it didn't. I think it's because it was a Champ vs Champ match, the kick outs made both titles look better and added to the ultimate drama when Owens finallu pinned Cena in the end. I can't even believe I just typed that. Kevin Steen, Kevin fucking Steen, the most anti-WWE guy on paper since maybe Mick Foley beat John Cena clean as a whistle in his debut match without even the slightest amount of shenanigans.

Personally, I would have preferred a small amount of cheating on Owens part, as he is a heel after all. Maybe a ref bump followed by Owens drilling Cena into the ring post a few times, or power bombing him through the announce table. Nothing sneaky, just something overtly violent that would normally result in a DQ. But really, I can't complain about Steen beating Cena clean, this establishes him for life, basically. This is the biggest debut PPV win since Mankind beat Taker at KotR 1996. What a fucking match. Steen looked absolutely amazing, I'm thrilled WWE are letting him use lots of different moves, that's part of what makes him so special. Nobody has a sicker move set in 2012-2015 than Kevin Steen. Even without half the moves where he drops guys on their necks, he still has probably the best move set in the WWE. Love him, love this match, love Cena for giving Steen everything and making him look amazing. This was the type of match I didn't think WWE was in the business of doing anymore. Truly shocking the audience in a debut.

It's funny, because I said a LONG time ago my ideal way to debut Sami Zayn would be for him to debut on Raw against Cena and go to a 60 minute draw. That's not feasible but it's dream booking, it just shows that I didn't even consider WWE would ever allow a debuting star to beat Cena clean. Amazing. Simply amazing.

I'll give the match ****1/4 but that doesn't accurately depict how awesome it was to see KEVIN FUCKING STEEN demolish John Cena in a WWE ring. Surreal doesn't even begin to do it justice.

Now it will be VERY interesting to see what they do with Samoa Joe.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

RAW has been pretty interesting so far tonight. The Cena/Owens segment is absolutely must see. Honestly one of my favorite segments of the year. The kid with cancer hit me hard.

Looks like we're getting a Ryback/Big Show IC Title feud and I'm totally ok with that. Show is one of the few guys I'd wanna see Ryback defend against.

Also, Titus O'Neil is getting MAD over right now and I'm digging seeing him throw New Day around like rag dolls.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

My god this RAW has been bad. The only things worth noting were Kevin Owens' promo and the six man tag. The Authority were insufferable once again, Reigns/Barrett was boring, John Cena's promo sucked, Big Show returned, and now Orton and Sheamus are gonna face each other. 

The worst thing though is watching Mark Henry. Love the man, but I think it's time for him to call it quits. The man looks like he's about to die out there, and he's in that Kane/Show state where all he does is turn face and heel for no apparent reason. This is the fourth time in the past two years that Henry has changed alignment because of Roman Reigns. FOURTH!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm getting a kick out of the Authority forcing Reigns to beat everyone to keep his MITB spot. Even though the matches have kinda sucked.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i'm glad i didn't watch then

i'll look for the owens/cena segment though


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Thought all the Reigns matches were garbage. The Barrett match was least garbage of the bunch, but that, and Raw as a whole was terrible. Only good thing on the show was that Owens/Cena segment (and that was great). Divas Title match sucked, Sheamus/Orton sucked, 6-man tag match sucked... easily the worst Raw in the past couple of months.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:lmao at Austin saying it was a good raw


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

RIP Wyatt's career


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

RatedR10 said:


> RIP Wyatt's career


:lol

Yeah that last half of RAW was pretty bad. Reigns matches were extremely slow, my goodness. We at least got the Cena/Owens segment and a good PTP showcase.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lol Austin is such a hypocrite whenever he talks about finishers and selling.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

just watched Owens promo.

Wow, that was amazing. 

Don't screw it up wwe


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

No idea if Austin could be cleared to take bumps/hard neck bumps from the suplex variants of a man the power of Lesnar with those "stack of dimes", but Austin said a pretty good while ago now he was "training for a comeback" (meaning to regularly work out at Venice Beach), the guy has already built massive arms, the way he works out and with plenty of time to go he could get his cardio rolling. While myself and others personally think the Rock has lost his touch considerably, Austin could come in, have that fresh vibe and would instantly be the most entertaining man in the company arguable to Lesnar imo. If the "stack of dimes" can hold.... 

The returning Rattlesnake for one last match in Texas against Brock freaking Lesnar with a little bit of history going there and what would surely be a money build: subside that with imo. what should be a Taker/Cena Taker's last ride (last match) or even with Sting and then throw Rocky in, 100,000 right there.

edit: the magic of experienced, grizzled and all time mic workers there with that 5 minute sell job: hard to tell if that was just an example of the earlier point of needing to make promos engaging/sell convincingly, if that was off the cuff legit or what that was. Austin did seem bothered at the end, which inofitself can have several connotations.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Austin vs Lesnar
Cena vs Taker
Rock vs HHH
Sting vs ?


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

KENNY said:


> Austin vs Lesnar
> Cena vs Taker
> Rock vs HHH
> Sting vs ?


I contend to all if it is physically possible for Austin, you put Austin/Lesnar and Cena/Taker marketing that match properly and Taker's last ride and throw the Rock in with how white hot he is right now, I think you could throw up anything else and get 100k in that Texas building. As cruel as this is to a talent I have enjoyed thoroughly through time, I don't care too much where Stinger is slotted at this point. I feel he got whored out at 31, but he got his legacy secured for future generations, a good payday, got to work such a huge crowd and see the wwe machine, he is good to go imo. If we gotta logistically slot Sting somewhere... shoot IDK where to put him I guess the obvious non-Taker choice is Wyatt. That said, I have strong feeling it'll be Stinger/Taker.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KENNY said:


> Austin vs Lesnar
> Cena vs Taker
> Rock vs HHH
> Sting vs ?


Yeah they may put 100,000 butts in seats for that, but that lineup looks like DOG SHIT. :lol Who knows if it's an unpopular opinion but jesus I wouldn't look forward to ANY of that. Especially if Taker looks like a broken down old man again.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Yeah they may put 100,000 butts in seats for that, but that lineup looks like DOG SHIT. :lol Who knows if it's an unpopular opinion but jesus I wouldn't look forward to ANY of that. Especially if Taker looks like a broken down old man again.


Well, there is a small sea of quality matches/ring centered programs that are either untapped or not completely tapped with this insane NXT crop either mixed with their own or guys on the main roster. No problem at all filling out the rest of the card with what should be very good-potentially fantastic matches. If WWE elects to go the "home grown" route, they still have that rich reservoir that is so untapped. 

If Dbry is out of the picture, I wouldn't care to see the Rock wrestle. I meant involve the Rock in a pre-announced capacity to draw some attraction with how white hot he is. Not at all keen on HHH/Rock, for with HHH's ego, given his current screentime probably clocking in around 30 minutes a night as is, I shudder to think how much screen time HHH with Steph would hog up with the Rock. Again, HHH has a small sea of potentials I would prefer he works with. 

I wouldn't sleep on Cena/Taker in Taker's last and a thing about Austin: ring rust/father time cannot take away Austin's rare ability to tell the emotions of a match with his face/in particular his eyes, his awesome knowhow and his ability to throw hands. Once again, if Austin can medically go and gets that cardio where it needs to be, I'm not sleeping on that one ounce either. If nothing else, what a hell of a build.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

WrestlingOracle said:


> Well, there is a small sea of quality matches/ring centered programs that are either untapped or not completely tapped with this insane NXT crop either mixed with their own or guys on the main roster. No problem at all filling out the rest of the card with what should be very good-potentially fantastic matches. If WWE elects to go the "home grown" route, they still have that rich reservoir that is so untapped.
> 
> If Dbry is out of the picture, I wouldn't care to see the Rock wrestle. I meant involve the Rock in a pre-announced capacity to draw some attraction with how white hot he is. Not at all keen on HHH/Rock, for with HHH's ego, given his current screentime probably clocking in around 30 minutes a night as is, I shudder to think how much screen time HHH with Steph would hog up with the Rock. Again, HHH has a small sea of potentials I would prefer he works with.
> 
> I wouldn't sleep on Cena/Taker in Taker's last and a thing about Austin: ring rust/father time cannot take away Austin's rare ability to tell the emotions of a match with his face/in particular his eyes, his awesome knowhow and his ability to throw hands. Once again, if Austin can medically go and gets that cardio where it needs to be, I'm not sleeping on that one ounce either. If nothing else, what a hell of a build.


I agree on the first paragraph, but let's be real. This year's Wrestlemania had SEVEN matches on the main card and the main event still ended up going shorter than planned. IF (and it's quite the big if) they ended up runnin a few of those matches, you know they wouldn't give a fuck about the rest of the card. There'd probably another multi-man ladder match or a big 8-man tag or something. :lol

I have ZERO interest in seeing the Rock wrestle unless it was against Brock. I don't know how it would come about but that's the only guy I would care about in the slightest if they were to face off. That would at least have an interesting build and make for a good promo battle. Rock vs. HHH does nothing for me. Don't wanna see that one recycled.

I'll admit that the thought of Austin vs. Lesnar is cool in itself but I'd be absolutely terrified for Austin (who is now in his 50s). If Lesnar completely annihilates Rollins, Cena, and Reigns, I just have trouble believing Austin stood a chance, ya know?

I hate to say this but after watching Taker's matches the last two years, I'm struggling to even get excited at the thought of him STILL wrestling in another 10 months. Even in one last hoorah against Cena, who carries the match? I don't think either one is capable right now.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I was thinking last night and Ambrose/Rollins reminded me so much of the Orton/Bryan main events from 2013. They're capable of putting on good-to-great matches but the pacing on having to go 20+ minutes really hurt them (imo), the crowd was kinda meh, and the screwy finish didn't help things.
> 
> @LilOlMe, man I wish I could rep you after all the truthful things you mentioned from the PPV.  I also noticed people talking in like EVERY match. Actually if you ever rewatch Cena/Owens you'll hear Cena basically yelling in Kevin's ear within the first couple minutes. Henry's glass breaking couldn't have been intentional. He looked so lost immediately after it happened and they absolutely should not have brought out Ryback afterwards. Two people came in within 30 seconds and then they all just started at each other. :lol I do believe Sheamus was blocking the door on purpose the whole time too, btw. I don't think it was pulled off well in the slightest but there was at least some effort from Sheamus to make something in this match memorable. I just saw this last night and I don't even remember how Truth or Henry got eliminated...
> 
> Glad you enjoyed that Marufuji tag though!


I re-watched the IC EC, because I figured the car wreck quality might be fascinating this time, rather than just appallingly boring. 

It was.

I see now totally what happened. And my respect for Ziggler has gone up hugely, and I feel bad if he probably got chewed out like the rest of them by Vince, because he was the only one _trying_ to salvage the damn thing.

If anyone watches again, you'll see what I'm talking about. Jack Evans is right. The glass wasn't suppose to break, and that's what threw everything off. At this point, they had to figure in Henry, even if they had completely different plans.

Now I like that the mics were too loud last night, because I could tell what was going on because of that. Ziggler realized that shit just changed, realized that the others had no fucking clue what to do, so he kept trying to maintain some order and tell people new stuff to do.

The problem is, none of those fuckers could follow direction for the lives of them. Omg. It's like they were all so completely incapable of improvising, but not only that, they were doing the most nonsensical shit because of that.

I think that if it had just been Ziggler, Barrett, and Sheamus out there when this happened, it would have been fine. But the people out there were clueless!!

Ziggler tries to get them to team up against each other, but none of them understood that message. So they all just stare awkwardly while Ziggler is trying to direct.

Then, Ziggler is telling Ryback & I think Henry, to swing Ziggler & Truth into each other. Instead, Ryback just randomly goes and jumps on Henry & Truth...completely abandoning Ziggler for no reason.

The funniest part is Sheamus just staring at all of this in his pod. :haha

Ziggler tells Henry to stay the fuck out of the way at one point (more nicely said, of course), 'cause Henry had just randomly broke up a pin for no damn reason. Mainly because he was just standing there with nothing to do, so he felt that he should do _something_.

It was weird, because right before, Henry was motioning for Ziggler to bring that person to him, but Zig didn't see it. So it's like Henry felt he MUST get involved somehow. WHY?! You weren't part of the plan anyway.

They were just lost, and Zig was trying his damnest to try to make it have some coherence. 

But this is why there was no heat, no anything....because Zig was trying to make everybody have a purpose, but they were too caught up in the fact that shit got thrown off, that they were just trying to hear Zig. So all their focus was on that, and they were still fucking it all up! :lol

Though I still don't get why the big guys couldn't just beat the hell out of each other. Should have been natural.

At one point, Zig is like fuck it, let's just eliminate Henry. I think this is when Sheamus was doing his shtick with not getting out of the pod, lol.

I don't think Henry was supposed to be eliminated at that point (I don't think he was even supposed to be in the match at that point), but Zig realized trying to work this way with Henry in there was pointless.

Also, I swear at one point Zig says to Ryback "the mic's there"...so I think that this was an acknowledgment that he knew that he was having to talk too much. Little did he know that the mics were particularly loud this night, lol.

This was right after Ryback did that long suplex with Zig. Which btw, also made me respect Zig more, because he was really trying to show Ryback off. He said to him "turn me to the front" while he was in the air, so Ryback could look even more powerful, and show off more on camera. I thought that was nice.

Jack Evans is right, that the intention with Sheamus was for it to come off like Sheamus had intentionally blocked the pod with his cross. However, apparently the announcers were just as confused as I was (though now that I was actually paying attention, I see that it was obviously down there). None of them acknowledged what Sheamus had done, except for JBL halfway, but even he seemed to hedge. Later on in the match, Cole goes "he spent the whole time trying to get out, but now he wants to get back in!" So even Cole didn't realize that it was Sheamus who blocked it, lol. What fuckery.


I thought the main event was much better on re-watch, btw. I don't know why, but I tend to never really be that into Ambrose/Rollins matches on first watch for some reason.

Titus was great in the Tag Team EC, btw. Finally someone really being rough. 

I'll respond to Yeah1993 in a bit.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I never thought that if you inserted Mark Henry into an Elimination Chamber that he'd actually make it WORSE. :lol I remember saying out loud "what the hell are you doing?" when he broke up the pin between Ziggler and Barrett. You'd figure a guy that's been around that long would be able to improvise much better than he did. 

Then he comes out tonight and works heel in his match with Reigns! So confusing.


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

*WWE Elimination Chamber 2015*

Kickoff: Zack Ryder vs Stardust *

*WWE Tag Team Championship - Elimination Chamber*
New Day (c) vs The Ascension vs Lucha Dragons vs The Prime Time Players vs Los Matadores vs Cesaro & Tyson Kidd **

*WWE Diva's Championship*
Nikki Bella (c) vs Naomi vs Paige 1/2*

John Cena vs Kevin Owens ***3/4

Bo Dallas vs Neville *1/2

*WWE Intercontinental Championship - Elimination Chamber*
King Barrett vs Dolph Ziggler vs Mark Henry vs Sheamus vs R-Truth vs Ryback DUD (_OMG! Worst Chamber Match EVER_)

*WWE World Heavyweight Championship*
Seth Rollins (c) vs Dean Ambrose ***

Overall Rating: 5.25


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

What do people think about the rematch between Cena/Owens being so soon?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KENNY said:


> What do people think about the rematch between Cena/Owens being so soon?


After tonight's segment between the two, I'm totally ready for it. They built it immediately. 

Who's the girl in your sig KENNY?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I have no idea. I got it off a random site, might be changing it soon. :evil


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Yeah they may put 100,000 butts in seats for that, but that lineup looks like DOG SHIT. :lol Who knows if it's an unpopular opinion but jesus I wouldn't look forward to ANY of that. Especially if Taker looks like a broken down old man again.


Agreed. Sadly, not only does it look like dog shit, it also looks depressingly realistic.

I'm the last guy who's gonna wax nostalgic about the Attitude Era, and I'm fairly certain that most of the factors that led to the last "wrestling boom" were era-specific and impossible to recreate. (Also, I'm not personally all that invested in the possibility of a new wrestling boom, but whatever.) That said, I can't help but notice that the last time the company created multiple bona fide stars in a short stretch of time and bought itself significant mainstream interest, it was during a time when they were unable to bring in recognizable names who'd made money for them in the past.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Spoiler: Superstars



Not sure if Joe/Kidd will air on Superstars, but it definitely happened before Raw went on air. The "ring apron" changed during the match from NXT to Superstars, which is why I'm unsure of it airing. That said, all I've found so far is a few pictures and a video of the finish (so the match has been taped by someone!). Damn right I'll find it and post it here.

Joe won with the MUSCLE BUSTER btw





Wow, last week's dark main was Orton/Wyatt. Why would you do that to paying customers?!


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Hopefully its on superstars, I'd give it a watch.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

*Assorted match ratings*

*Armageddon 2006* - Fatal 4 Way Tag Ladder Match - **** 1/4
*Judgement Day 2006 *- Chris Benoit vs FINLAY - **** 1/4
*No Mercy 2006* - William Regal vs Chris Benoit - *** 1/2
*No Mercy 2003 *- Tajiri vs Rey Mysterio - *** 1/4
*No Mercy 1999 *- Hardy Boyz vs Edge and Christian (Ladder match) - **** 1/4
*WCW Souled Out '99* - Billy Kidman vs Rey Mysterio vs Psychosis vs Juventeud Guerrera - *** 3/4
*ECW Living Dangerously '99* - RVD vs Jerry Lynn - *** 1/2 (first time watching)
*NWA WrestleWar '90* - Ric Flair vs Lex Luger - ****


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Any chance WWE will get Austin Aries? Always liked him and he had a really great 2012; one of the best wrestlers in America that year. Aries/Bully Ray is prob the best TNA match I've seen.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I'd personally love it, big fan of Aries.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I need to watch those Tajiri/Rey matches. There is a couple on SD in 2003, but im unsure on dates.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

8/1/02, 9/4/03, 9/25/03, 1/1/04 & 2/12/04.

1/1/04 was obv taped in 03.

tags:

Rey/Edge v. Tajiri/Lesnar 10/10/02
Rey/Kidman v. Tajiri/Nunzio 9/11/03


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

omg tajiri/brock on the same team, need to watch


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> 8/1/02, 9/4/03, 9/25/03, 1/1/04 & 2/12/04.
> 
> 1/1/04 was obv taped in 03.
> 
> ...


Cheers ears. I have the SD '03 matches so ill watch those. Tajiri/Brock tag match is fun i know that, watched it when I did my Lesnar project.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Any chance WWE will get Austin Aries? Always liked him and he had a really great 2012; one of the best wrestlers in America that year. Aries/Bully Ray is prob the best TNA match I've seen.


My hombre @Flux showed me that Aries/Bully match a while ago and I have to admit it was absolutely fantastic. I haven't seen a ton of Aries, and no matches past that 2012 match so I don't know how he looks in 2015, but I wouldn't be against it. You can never have TOO much talent, if they keep stacking up we might get a brand split again which could be excellent for these younger/newer guys.

You said it's the best TNA match you've ever seen, have you seen Joe/Styles Turning Point 2005? That's been my pick for a while as best TNA match. The others that are RIGHT there are AMW vs Daniels/Skipper 6 Sides of Steel, Joe/Sabin, Styles/Abyss Cage, Roode/Storm Street Fight, and Daniels/Styles 30 Min IronMan AAO 2005. Those are all fabulous iMO.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i'm about to watch these matches before the tennis (federer vs stan)

John Cena vs Umaga - last man standing match 2007
team cena vs team show - survivor series 2006


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> You said it's the best TNA match you've ever seen, have you seen Joe/Styles Turning Point 2005? That's been my pick for a while as best TNA match. The others that are RIGHT there are AMW vs Daniels/Skipper 6 Sides of Steel, Joe/Sabin, Styles/Abyss Cage, Roode/Storm Street Fight, and Daniels/Styles 30 Min IronMan AAO 2005. Those are all fabulous iMO.


WROTEYS:


Spoiler: kinda big






> America’s Most Wanted v. XXX (TNA Turning Point 12/5/04)
> I’ve never been bothered by the ‘tag in a cage’ type of match. I mean it’s a cage match, so there’re no rules and the four people should be able to do what they want, but they often stick to only two people in the ring. What reason is there for that? The referee can stop them, I guess? IDK, I guess I’ll make my own reasoning and say they are afraid of the big scary Rules-Enforcing Zebra Man who will put them back in their corner if they do something wrong. Well, I think Rey Mysterio & Batista v. MNM in a cage was tornado-ish rules and that match friggin’ stunk, so that’s one reason to use the tag rules, I s’pose (if, it actually did not use tag rules, IDRR). These dudes do some OK taggy stuff and the realise they are not, in fact, afraid of the big scary Rules-Enforcing Zebra Man. So they brawl around and stuff and I’m not really here nor there about it. I can’t describe my emotion watching it because I didn’t really have one; I didn’t like it or dislike it, it just felt like wrestling. Then XXX get a hold of some cuffs and connect one of AMW (I still can’t properly tell them apart) to the ropes. This was easily my favourite part. While AMW 2.0 is strapped to the ropes looking on, Daniels and Skipper beat on AMW the VIII. Daniels even taunts him with the key and then uses it as a weapon on AMW Dos. So that was pretty spectacular. I loved how AMW Beta yelled ‘GIMME THE KEY!’. Pretty sure he won’t, dude. AMW Guy Getting the Beat Down fights back and eventually gets the key to AMW Mark VI, who is at least somewhat fresh and evens the match up. This devolves into a pile of monkey shit with big elaborate big spots like the stupid rana from the top of cage and the Tower of Shitheads and whatever. I hate that dogshit. MOTYC.





> America’s Most Wanted v. Team Canada (Final Resolution 1/16/05)
> AJ Styles v. Christopher Daniels (Against All Odds 2/13/05)
> 
> Didn’t pay my fullest attention to either of these, but I watched them nonetheless. Tag was fun. AMW beat on Canadians before they hit a fun-ish face in peril and then eventually kind of overdo finishers which sucked but overall it was fine. I was shocked by how much I liked the iron man. I never in my life thought I would enjoy a Chris Daniels singles match that HAD to go thirty minutes, but I did. Daniels stays on AJ and gets one pinfall off of the angle’s wings. Whenever AJ forms any kind of offense Daniels gets pissed and beats AJ’s head bloody. It’s 1-0 Daniels way until AJ gets a flash pin which REALLY pisses Daniels off. He tries to make AJ tap with a Koji clutch, but the timer goes off. AJ wins the overtime and it was done really well and was good shit.





> AJ Styles v. Abyss (Lockdown 4/24/05)
> Well I had zero expectations to like this at all and actually wound up actively enjoying it. The only time I have ever seen Abyss look like anything more than a pile of untrained crap was when he was working as Joseph Park (a gimmick in which he is supposed to act like a pile of untrained crap), so I was surprised to see him only fuck up a couple of things here and look like someone who could put a decent match together. This was a total AJ Styles show, though. I mentioned in the IWA three-way how he bumped in a way that looked like the offensive move was actually making him bump that way, and man he did a great job of that here. Abyss hits a mediocre club to the back and AJ hits the ground hard. Any idiot can hit the ground hard on a mediocre club, but not any idiot can make it seem like the mediocre club actually sent him downward to hit the ground hard. Well this idiot could. They brawl around the cage before getting in it which I’m pretty sure was not part of the match, but was fun. AJ bumps for Abyss huge and comes up with some cool shit when also not bumping. He took an Irish whip (or just a ‘chuck’ of some variety, IDR), and avoids danger by actually sliding under the guardrail, and he didn’t make THAT shit look like silly shit, either. I’m pretty sure most people know about the cage door bump. I’d seen it in .GIFs and stuff before but in the context of a match where AJ is taking great bumps, it looks like a really great bump. It was set up kind of obviously, but I have to remember that I knew the bump was coming. If I didn’t know if coming, would I have seen the obvious set up? Doesn’t matter, b/c I would have lost my head at the bump anyway. Stupid .GIF. The cage stuff is OK. Abyss screws catching AJ once or twice, but AJ still bumps like an asshole, so it’s ultimately pretty fun. AJ working form the bottom is good AJ. I wish this finished with the sub-Styles Clash on the tacks instead of the jerk off top rope move which TNA have to get in every cage match, but I have no real complaints. Enjoyable AJ carry.





> Samoa Joe v. Chris Sabin (I remember the date but not the PPV. It’s probably Sacrifice or Hardcore Sacrifice or something like that 7/17/05)
> Really fun Joe v. Guy Smaller than Joe match. Joe gets to run his signature spots and I typically like Joe’s signature spots. I kinda dug Sabin and IDK why but I really thought I wouldn’t (or didn’t). Maybe I’m confusing him with Alex Shelley who I’m pretty sure I hate, but I swore I cringed at whatever I saw from Sabin, x amount of x’s ago. He has some ass-crummy dropkick variations and yells randomly in places, but he was good Joe fodder here. I should mention I hate Joe’s spot (and other people like Hero have done this too) of powerbombing a guy and going to an STF IMMEDIATELY following the powerbomb. It’s likely that Joe wants it to look like he’s softening the guy up with the powerbomb for the STF, but the seller never sells it any differently. It makes the powerbomb look useless and like shitty finisher spam which I fucking hate. I *did* really dig how Sabin would never tap and Joe had to keep switching up the submissions; which kind of ties in with Sabin passing out instead of tapping in the end, too (though that’s probably more to do with the muscle buster). Really cool match, I’ve actually enjoyed the TNA I’ve watched so far. At this point I’m not positive a TNA match will come within a *****’s willy of my 100, but more than once I’ve said ‘I wanna see more TNA’ for one reason or another. There’s likely more good than I thought there was. I suppose being picky and choosy about what to watch so far has helped me like whatever I liked (and there is obv some rubbish), but I’m curious to see more now.





> Watched Joe/Styles again. I do like it a ton even if it isn't making my list. Joe hits probably the best knee drop my eyes did ever see in it. I didn't like the AJ Kicks Out At One spot, though. And while I do like Joe, I don't think he's terribly good at being a heel. I wouldn't have even known if not for the commentary. Was he a heel? He concussed Daniels and put his blood on the towel and babyface AJ was pissed about it. I think he was a heel. SEE, this what I mean. As far as big man v. not man goes I don't think it comes within a hair of Eddie/Show, and I like Henry/Hardy and Henry/Finlay x2 more, as well. I'd say Aries/Bully Ray is probably better for TNA matches, too.





> Chris Harris v. James Storm (Sacrifice 5/13/07)
> Well this was great, and it’s really cool to a Texas Death Match done without the thirty second rest period. I can actually tell these two apart here! One is heel and has a beard, and they are not wearing the same damn tights. Story is that Storm wanted to be on his own instead of being apart of AMW, and instead of asking like a MAN he broke a beer bottle over Harris’ head. Harris got blind in one eye and wants revenge….. or payback….he says they’re different things. So these two FUCK each other up. They start with a sub-Necro Butcher fist flurry and tumble out to the crowd in no time. Punches, dives, chucking each other into things, suplexes…they brawl, basically. It’s good brawling, too. Once they get in the ring, though, is where shit picks up and ‘good’ becomes ‘really fucking good’. I’m not really a guy who gets excited over a table spot, but most of the reason for that is that mostly nobody this side of Tajiri does anything creative with a table, and the spots usually look inorganic. These two pretty much nailed it, though. The catapult into the underneath of the table was great; I don’t recall seeing it done before. The table flips over and could have punctured an eyeball. They even did spear off of the apron into a table which not made it look elaborately set up. Harris just bulldozes into Storm and barely makes it through the ropes himself; looked completely nuts. That doesn’t look anywhere near as impressive as them hitting a superkick with the chair, though. Who has ever made superkicking a chair into someone’s face look like it wasn’t set up by two guys pretending to fight? These two nailed it. The duelling beer bottles at the end was a perfect finish. Super brawl, probably the best TNA match I’ve seen. All it needed was a crowd that didn’t chant ‘this is awesome’, ‘TNA’, or a crowd that didn’t count with the ref, but five times faster (maybe only once, but it pissed me off and was confusing). Asylum indeed.





Yeah....didn't like the (tag) cage too much. :lmao Roode/Storm might be better than Austin/Bully, forgot about that one. Joe/Styles is probably third but I *am* a little lower on it than most. Joe/Daniels from 4/13/06 might in the talk too, as well as a couple other Aries matches from 2012.


EDIT - edited in Joe/Sabin


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

scratch the survivor series match.

i want to watch lesnar vs cena - summerslam 2014 :evil

on the topic of brock/cena, i haven't watched their matches in 2003 since well..2003. how do people rate them?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Their 03 stuff ain't worth sitting through tbh.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

LilOlMe said:


> I re-watched the IC EC, because I figured the car wreck quality might be fascinating this time, rather than just appallingly boring.
> 
> It was.
> 
> ...


He tried so hard, but there was no saving that abomination. Ryback, Truth and Henry were ridiculously lost, and it's kinda sad the latter two couldn't improvise better considering how long they've been in the business.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Props to @LilOlMe for providing that in-depth analysis. I actually did not get to see the match when it happened (really regretting it now, sounds like so much botchamania worthy moments) so I'm gonna watch it now that I know all this and get a good kick out of it.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Wow, I actually really enjoyed the main. The school boy into Superkick was brilliant, and Ambrose with those Lariats:mark: Also, quite in love with that elbow off the top, and idk, the finish stretch was great. That Ambrose dive was insane, and I didn't have a problem with Ambrose firing back after the buckle bomb - a sort of "on adrenaline alone" kind of thing. He sells after like a mother anyway. 

There were a couple clunky moments - didn't like the callback on the leg drop, and thought the stomp in the turnbuckle was rushed. Man, can't no one but no one pull that like Low Ki: Complete with slow digging of the ball of his foot into the opponent's knee to set the angle and madman scream. Still, I had it around* ***1/2*. Also, Ambrose's finish...:lana3

As expected, Owens/Cena stole the show. ****** for it. Cena elbows and some nerves keep it from getting me too crazy, but definitely some unexpected "straight" wrestling - like something that would easily fit into ROH today. Cena has long won me over to at least an eye-rolling smirk. I don't want to see him holding the big one again, but I respect the work he's put in and who he appeals to. At this point in his career there is no question he's one of the very best at structuring a match (even if I can hear 2/3 of it aloud:lol). 

Cena threw an absolutely _brutal_ Lariat late, and popped me out of my seat. It's real, people. It's damn real:usangle Couple very "KO gonna KO" moments - stealing signature spots, and generally being a sort of affable prick. Well executed debut, and gave people, in one match, a good range of what you can expect/have been missing out on. Good show from both - Owens has said in interviews that having the chance to wrestle John Cena was a selling point to his son when they uprooted from Canada to FL. Shame he had to crush his son's hero as such :denzel2

The EC matches were mostly horrible - why in the name of things, do we have people breaking up pins in an _elimination_ match? Why did Kalisto spend 1/2 of the match on the cage? Does no one expect that plexiglass to not break when they throw people into it? I mean, it's almost an annual thing that someone will fly into the glass, and it will come off the tracks, yet we got that. Just wasn't feeling them.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i'm in the mood for a laugh like that IC title chamber match, any other ones i can check out? heading to sleep soon, not up for anything else really, but i intend to watch some Piper stuff tomorrow, randomly just thought of him and want to see some of his classics


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Any chance WWE will get Austin Aries? Always liked him and he had a really great 2012; one of the best wrestlers in America that year. Aries/Bully Ray is prob the best TNA match I've seen.


That'd be pretty cool but for some reason I just don't feel like it's gonna happen. There's been such a major influx of NXT people signed recently, I feel like they wouldn't even give Austin a look (he's pretty small too). I could be completely wrong, but part of me just wants to see him go back to ROH and boost their product even more with another bonafide main eventer. He could have wonderful programs against Adam Cole or Jay Lethal and even get together with Roddy again to take over the tag division.



KENNY said:


> scratch the survivor series match.
> 
> i want to watch lesnar vs cena - summerslam 2014 :evil
> 
> on the topic of brock/cena, i haven't watched their matches in 2003 since well..2003. how do people rate them?


I personally like their Backlash match, but it's nowhere near the level of their modern day contests. I think I gave it *** 1/4 but this was a couple years back.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

RatedR10 said:


> He tried so hard, but there was no saving that abomination. Ryback, Truth and Henry were ridiculously lost, and it's kinda sad the latter two couldn't improvise better considering how long they've been in the business.


Ehhhh, when they were all staring at his cell it was Truth that restarted the action by trying to do roll-ups, and positioning for everyone to carry on.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

KENNY said:


> i'm in the mood for a laugh like that IC title chamber match, any other ones i can check out? heading to sleep soon, not up for anything else really, but i intend to watch some Piper stuff tomorrow, randomly just thought of him and want to see some of his classics


Watch HHH vs. HBK 3 stages of hell at Armageddon 2002. And read along with Cal's review of that match :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

That match truly is the shits IMO. :lmao I don't mind spotfests or matches of that ilk, but HBK/HHH was just.....shit.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

great choice. i remember enjoying their match at summerslam, but remember this one being bad :lmao


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

*Cena/Owens*
I can see it definitely being too kick out heavy for some but I was on the edge of my seat for the entire fucking thing. This felt huge and you could tell the crowd felt the same way because before this they were dead silent. Owens has such a big presence, It's weird because I never fwlt like that watching him prior to his WWE run. Maybe because he's put on a lot of muscle and cutting out all the comedy stuff has worked wonders for him, he comes across like a mean bastard who likes to fight and it that more than ever was on show here. Genuinely surprised at how much stuff they let Owens show here, and how amazing he looked. This is maybe his best performance ever and that is saying somthing considering he has those amazing performances against Generico in ROH/PWG and stuff like the Nigel match. He's out of this world, as a wrestler and as a personality. His mannerisms coming out and during Cenas entrance ruled and I knew then that he was ready to put on something great, you could visibly see that he was hyped out of his mind. I love when you can see stuff like that. I thought they'd have him doing his heel NXT stuff with the stalling which I like but when they went straight ahead and locked up I was relieved because I thought there was maybe a chance they'd make him look good and they delivered waaaay more than that. Owens comes out of this looking like a machine, the guy to beat Cena clean, the only one to do that sicne Brock. If anyone doubted him before I can't see a justifiable reason to do so now. Getting back to the finsihing stretch with the kick outs, I jumped out of my seat about three times, that's when those kick outs are working for me and I was actually relieved the match was continuing when Owens kicked out of the AA. I'd say they should have definitely taken out the first powerbomb kickout for sure, there was no need to have Cena kick out of that at all and the top rope fisherman buster was perhaps a bit too much but my goodness the swanton kick out knocked me for a loop and so did that variation of the package piledriver, I was sure that was it and after those happened my heart kind of sunk because I thought for sure Cena was winning. I haven't rooted for someone to win that much since the Zayn/Neville match probably. I loved the hell out of this and seeing Kevin Steen put on a match like that with John Cena was just so much fun to watch. This is up there with Brock/Reigns as the best match I've seen this year.

That springboard moonsault by Owens...Fuck.


The Owens/Cena promo on RAW was amazing.

Owens losing at MITB will fucking suck though. It'd be the best thing ever if he won again.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Where does Cena go if he loses again to Owens at MITB though?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Where does Owens go if he manages to get the best of Cena and actually win the US Title? I mean, he can't be NXT and US champ at the same time? Can he?

Also, what I would do to see Zayn and Owens team in the WWE. Heck, I'd welcome an Owens/Zayn feud on the main roster any day. Can WWE just hurry up and call up the likes of Zayn, Balor, Owens and Joe? Like seriously, can they do that by next week?? Please?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Zayn would already be on the main roster instead of Owens right now if it wasn't for the shoulder injury . Owens essentially took his spot on the roster.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

sharkboy22 said:


> Where does Owens go if he manages to get the best of Cena and actually win the US Title? I mean, he can't be NXT and US champ at the same time? Can he?
> 
> Also, what I would do to see Zayn and Owens team in the WWE. Heck, I'd welcome an Owens/Zayn feud on the main roster any day. Can WWE just hurry up and call up the likes of Zayn, Balor, Owens and Joe? Like seriously, can they do that by next week?? Please?


Zayn is where he goes. Zayn/Owens for the US title. (funny, considering both are Canadian) Summer blockbuster feud which gets both guys ridiculously over and we welcome a fresh feud to the main roster between two guys with history and can go.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Who do you guys think will answer Owens' NXT Title Open Challenge on Smackdown? There's like a whole SLEW of possibilties. 

If they went with guys currently on the NXT roster, dare they have Joe debut on Smackdown??? It's doubtful, but I wouldn't mind a Finn Balor debut either. An appearance from THE Brian Kendrick would be neat but he'd probably get destroyed. Hope they don't go with Rhyno.

The better possibilities is if they go with NXT alumni. I'd mark hard for Owens vs. Cesaro or Kidd. You could do Neville but that's not very exciting. Who knows what we'll get! Could be Adam Rose. hahaha


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

KENNY said:


> :lmao at Austin saying it was a good raw


Man, you said two posts above that you haven't watched the show. Tone it down a little. 

I think it was a good Raw, I understand Reigns' haters didn't like it because he got a lot of camera time, but his matches were ok and the first promo was very good.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

A negative with Raw is that they had a bunch of matches that didn't do anything to further any storylines. They arguably furthered Owens/Cena for their bullshit rematch but they didn't do much else. The Money in the Bank match is all about Reigns, they haven't even attempted to make anyone else seem believable in winning. Reigns just down right defeated three superstars in the same night. Another disappointing thing is how they tended to keep Ambrose off the show, though it did make his monstrous pop (biggest since Rock at Mania) all the more worth it at the end.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Erik. said:


> A negative with Raw is that they had a bunch of matches that didn't do anything to further any storylines. They arguably furthered Owens/Cena for their bullshit rematch but they didn't do much else. The Money in the Bank match is all about Reigns, they haven't even attempted to make anyone else seem believable in winning. Reigns just down right defeated three superstars in the same night. Another disappointing thing is how they tended to keep Ambrose off the show, though it did make his *monstrous pop (biggest since Rock at Mania)* all the more worth it at the end.


:zayn

I think you forgot about that guy on RAW.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> :zayn
> 
> I think you forgot about that guy on RAW.


True. That home town love :mark:


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> @LilOlMe, man I wish I could rep you after all the truthful things you mentioned from the PPV.  I also noticed people talking in like EVERY match. Actually if you ever rewatch Cena/Owens you'll hear Cena basically yelling in Kevin's ear within the first couple minutes.


Forgot to respond to this, but oh, yeah, John was terrible. Didn't even mention it with him, because he's always terrible with that. To the point where he completely ruins any semblance of suspense in a lot of his matches, because I'm always hearing exactly what will happen.

John was especially bad last night, but in his defense, the mics were picking up everyone loudly. I don't think that I usually hear Nikki or the Ascension, but I did. At least in Ascension's case, they were talking to each other.

I remember on RAW a few weeks ago, Rusev attacked Cena. So Cena is lying there dead, but then blatantly says "tell Rusev to pick up the flag." It was so damn clear and loud, but the worst part is that he made no attempt to cover his mouth AT ALL. Couldn't have taken you out of the moment more.

I don't understand why Vince doesn't ream him for this. 



Rah said:


> Ehhhh, when they were all staring at his cell it was Truth that restarted the action by trying to do roll-ups, and positioning for everyone to carry on.


IIRC, this was actually long afer that. This was when Sheamus was pretending to be stuck in his pod, and this was right after Ziggler was just talking to Ryback and Truth extensively (I think that Zig thought the camera would have been focused exclusively on Sheamus at this point).

So it probably was Ziggler's call, or it could have been something already pre-planned, or maybe Truth did just decide to do it. Sad thing is, even that didn't come off smoothly. When Truth went down, he wasn't in the position that Ziggler was expecting him to be in, so even that came off awkwardly. It wasn't that natural, smooth, roll up, into roll up, into roll up.


Re: Bray Wyatt on RAW: Just when I think that Vince is starting to turn a corner, and realize that he's done damage to the guy... With not only the Ryback win, but IMO, also Vince directing Wyatt to act like the Taker loss never happened....I thought that Vince realized that he should protect Wyatt more.

I was lulled into the same false sense of security last year, until he threw the entire Wyatt family to the John Cena wolves, the night after Summerslam. Everyone talks about Cena burials, or the unfavorability of the Cena/Wyatt feud to Wyatt...but they always forget that night after SS. That RAW massacre from Cena was the most egregious example of Vince doing such stupid shit to bright, young, talent. Most people forget about this, because most of the Cena/Wyatt stuff happened on PPVs. But this was by far the worst thing to happen. Did Wyatt get a single offensive move in that night?

Fuckin' Vince & Cena treated Wyatt like a Fandango level bitch jobber. Fuck them.

I don't know why I keep thinking that Vince has finally seen the light, because he always does this shit to me. No mas.


Re: Rusev: Such a shame that Rusev might have been ok if he just didn't finish that match with Ryback. Often times, you obviously make injuries worse by still performing on them. 

For those who didn't see it, this was Rusev's tweet which was shown on the EC PPV:


> Rusev ‏@RusevBUL May 31
> 
> Little broken foot..... big deal. Stupid American doctors won't let me compete. In my country I put duct tape n fight. #WWEChamber @WWE
> 
> 1,336 retweets 1,661 favorites


Thought that this was great. Great way to stay in character.

Still gonna respond later, Yeah, btw.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

No on has commented on this in regards to the Owens/Cena match, not even me and I don't know why. It was the first thing I noticed about Cena/Owens and probably my favorite aspect. Kevin Owens fucking punches in this match were freaking gorgeous. Did anyone else notice that? He was either stiffing the shit out of John (doubtful) or he was throwing Lawler-esque right handed hay makers that looked 100% legit. Haven't seen punches that good since the Undertaker was lacing them up. I can't be the only one who noticed or feel this way, right? I mean those were incredible punches yes? It's not just that the punches in WWE in 2015 in general are so bad that Owens was just throwing decent-good punches and they looked better in comparison? I'm talking especially about the ones in the early parts where Owens wasn't tired at all and was able to focus and throw crisp, forceful punches right to Cena's noggin. I don't think they were just super stiff/legit punches because Cena never reacted like you see when a guy gets potatoed and every single one of them looked just as good as the last.

I need a punch conoissoire like Cal or Gheri to confirm this for me, that I'm not just seeing things.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Making my way through 2012 NXT and it's been pretty decent thus far. A lot of matches are solidly worked but so many times the endings are really flat or abrupt. Michael McGillicutty is probably the most tolerable he's ever been during this time period and everyone kept pegging him as the next big star. Shame that he came to the main roster and bored everyone to death. :lol There's a hefty dose of Jinder Mahal as well but he wasn't that bad either in his role. Tyson Kidd was spectacular and fun to watch but he used a fucking STUPID looking finisher called the dungeon stretch or something. I can't even describe it but I think it looks ridiculous. Here's some standout matches so far:

*NXT Championship Tournament - First Round*
Drew McIntyre vs. Seth Rolins (_August 1, 2012_) - *** 1/4 (This looks pretty great on paper, doesn't it? Yeah I thought so too. Rock solid match with McIntyre using his size to his advantage and working over Seth's left arm. Good selling from Seth and a dominant performance from Drew. I kinda forgot how big he was. Ending is a bit abrupt, but a quality match)

*NXT Championship Tournament - Finals*
Seth Rollins vs. Jinder Mahal (_August 29, 2012_) - *** 3/4 (Thought this was pretty damn good, which surprised me. Mahal was on point with his back work to soften up Seth for the camel clutch. Seth again sold it well and bumped his ass off. You could already tell he was a special talent. Awesome match and I'm willing to bet it's Mahal's best of his career)

*NXT Championship*
Seth Rollins (c) vs. Michael McGillicutty (_October 10, 2012_) - *** 1/4 (I was again surprised by how solid this was. CM PUNK was out for commentary so that was kinda neat. Good back and forth match where Axel cuts Seth off whenever he starts to gain some momentum. Again, an abrupt finish but one that was ok with me because I've seen Seth win with a slew of different moves in NXT)


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Making my way through 2012 NXT and it's been pretty decent thus far. A lot of matches are solidly worked but so many times the endings are really flat or abrupt. Michael McGillicutty is probably the most tolerable he's ever been during this time period and everyone kept pegging him as the next big star. Shame that he came to the main roster and bored everyone to death. :lol There's a hefty dose of Jinder Mahal as well but he wasn't that bad either in his role. Tyson Kidd was spectacular and fun to watch but he used a fucking STUPID looking finisher called the dungeon stretch or something. I can't even describe it but I think it looks ridiculous. Here's some standout matches so far:
> 
> *NXT Championship Tournament - First Round*
> Drew McIntyre vs. Seth Rolins (_August 1, 2012_) - *** 1/4 (This looks pretty great on paper, doesn't it? Yeah I thought so too. Rock solid match with McIntyre using his size to his advantage and working over Seth's left arm. Good selling from Seth and a dominant performance from Drew. I kinda forgot how big he was. Ending is a bit abrupt, but a quality match)
> ...


Sweet reviews, this makes me want to go back and watch some of that stuff, especially considering the fact I have completely forgotten about Jinder Mahal.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Oh, yeah, prob should have read this before trying to understand the X/Y thing. But no, I get that. I'm not accusing you of being bias or anything, but, I also don't think there's really anything wrong with that. I am ultra dorky so when I make a list or something I sometimes think way too hard if I'm ranking a match higher based on my own personal feelings and how that might not be fair, and I kind of feel bad. I think I can be objective *enough*, though. My WWE 2010 list would be wayyyy different otherwise. I'd love to take Michaels/Taker off of it because I'm just sick of that match but I can't do it. I might feel kinda bias about the top of the list but I'd probably drop Rey/Punk from OTL ten spots if I realllly was.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I had to Google what FFVIII walkthrough is, btw. Glad I guessed right about the gist of it.

Anywhoo, the reason that I brought up bias wasn't to say that people couldn't be objective when it comes to their faves. One should hope that they could be, or else we'd all like every match of our faves.

I just meant that inherently there are gonna be things that you like about your faves (that's why they're your faves after all), that may make it so that you're more tolerant of the things that you don't like in their matches. Certainly more so than you would otherwise be if there were not much of the positives that you look for.

I guess where we're diverging is that you're talking about negatives being deal-breakers for you.

I get that, totally. I guess we just have different deal-breakers, maybe? 

For you it may be bad selling. For me it might be a lack of cleanliness.

As much as a match may have everything I like, if it's sloppy, there's just no way I'm gonna love the shit out of it. Ever. Yet others can totally overlook that. They can still consider a match brilliant.

So again, it just comes down to the person, I think.

I also think that it comes down to mood, at least for me. I say this because Angle/Benoit RR '03 has inspired a different feeling in me all three times I've watched it. I've seen many people here say that their opinions change drastically, depending on if it's their 1st, 2nd, or 3rd viewing of a match.

Others, like yourself, I imagine, may have a more consistent feeling every time.

I think that where we both were at was that I was saying that basically if I go out for a meal and say, order two appetizers, a dessert, and a drink. If I like 3 out of the 4 things, the 4th thing probably is going to be less of a bother to me. As opposed to if I'm not really crazy about (or don't really care about) the first 3 things...the fact that I also didn't like the 4th thing is probably gonna really piss me off.

Whereas you were basically looking at it as if you don't like the entree, it ruins the entire meal, and thus the whole thing sucks. And that totally makes sense, especially if you look at no-selling as the most importance piece (akin to the entree).

Am I summing it up correctly? We were talking about a similar thing, just with a different way of looking at it.

And I don't think you're wrong, especially because like I said, I'm sure there are major things that totally turn me off to matches. Just in this case, I didn't feel that this was big enough to turn me off. Maybe it would on re-watch. Moody, moody.  But I doubt it, because I loved the other stuff so much.

I also get your point about enjoying something, but also acknowledging that it's not objectively good. That's certainly true, and I think that's something that hopefully most can admit. 

However, as for your Goldberg/La Parka example, that's a good one. I think that people who view this as sports entertainment, would genuinely be fine with that. I think that they would say that that totally fits Goldberg's character, and fits what the WCW had been building up.

Purists should hate that, and they'd be right that that's not realistic at all. But are the people who think that that's good in a sports entertainment sense really "wrong"? You know, people who feel fine with wrestling acknowledging itself as "fake" and more of a show? 

It's objectively bad to people who are not ok with wrestling showing its hand like that, but what about with the people who are ok with it? 

Mind you, I despised Hogan always hulking up as a kid, precisely because it made it so obvious to me that it was all fake. Ditto with Flair's face forward falls. 

Yet I loved when Brock no sold Seth's kick to the head on that RAW where Brock got suspended. So this goes right back to my bias/hypocrisy point, lol.

But anyway, I'm saying those last two points just to say that I'm not really taking a side on this part of the conversation. Just saying that the "objectively good/bad" thing is blurry too, because it depends what school of thought you're coming from.

It's interesting, because I love to analyze everything in life, so I guess that's why taking wrestling "seriously" on these boards can be appealing to me. However, there is also a beauty in not doing so. I'm not being all like "it's not so serious", 'cause Lord knows I treat it as such many times. 

I'm just saying that I was thinking about this conversation, because I've mentioned here before that when I watch with casuals, they're of a totally different mindset. I guess that's why you said that crowds eat up those suplex spots. It's true, and while we could tell them all the reasons why this shouldn't be (like I could have tried to shout to the crowd every time Hulk "Hulked up"), at the end of the day they could easily turn around and say "are you really saying this about a 'sport' where a 67 year old CEO gets beaten up with a kendu stick by his punk, 30 something year old, employee?"

You know?

And then what do you say to that? 

It's like either shit is meant to be taken seriously or it's not. But it's never that black and white for us, it seems. And that can be what makes it difficult as to what's deemed acceptable and good and what's not. 

I don't even know how to articulate my point really, but I know what I mean in my head.



Yeah1993 said:


> I see what you're saying and I've kind of been agreeing, but I just cannot think of an example where I enjoy anything near what Marufuji and KENTA were doing. MAYBE some 90s joshi. MAYBE. And that may just prove you right because while you find Marufuji to have some mystical aura that he has never had (MIDDLE FINGER!), I like Japanese women enough that I'd apologise to one for my house being flammable if she burnt my house down.
> 
> Fuck, though, still.........I absolutely hated watching 90s joshi-ers no sell shit all over the place. Someone like Manami Toyota at least can really try to make the no-selling look like a burst of energy but screw that noise, it's awful. Don't care how cute she is. Burn my house down all you want but when the police arrive to beat you with a stick you better sell it.
> 
> what the hell is my point again?


Again, it's not to say that anyone is wrong for trying to decipher and advocate what's good and what's not...because I definitely will continue to do so. That's part of the fun. But I do think there's something about wrestling being a circus that can sometimes make it hard to be consistent. And I also do think that it's fun to sometimes just treat it as such.

For example, Neville did a brilliant sell job with his knee during a recent RAW match with Barrett. That was great. Then they continued it to the next week of RAW. I think I generally am more of a purist than many on the board (to the point where I tend to like the people that most people consider boring), yet I was almost kind of hoping that Neville _would_ no-sell. Not because selling isn't important to me, and not because I think that that would necessarily be the "right" thing to do, but fuck. I can appreciate a great sell job (as I did the previous week with Neville/Barrett), but sometimes you just don't want to watch a match full of that. Or at least I didn't.

There is a beauty in watching the sell, but sometimes I feel that it can be a distraction. Especially when you know that there's no real purpose to it other than it being a thing to do in a match. 

People soften things up for their final move, and I can appreciate that, but sometimes I don't think that that's _really_ the driving force, even though it's totally logical. It's just their way to fill time that's actually sensible. 

You can tell the difference, because you can tell when someone's really spirited about their limb work and points of attack, and when they're not.

But back to the point about selling & being a distraction. I criticized Bryan last year for not selling much at the EC (he even did a cringeworthy yes chant with both arms during a promo, like nothing was wrong, lol). People responded that it was a dumb idea to have him go in there with a "bad shoulder", because it takes away from the match.

You could respond that actually, Bryan & the guys could have gotten creative with his shoulder in the EC, and therefore the shoulder storyline could have been more amazing, and you'd be right. At the same time, I totally understand & think I agree with where the others are coming from. Do I really want to see a deliberately limited Bryan working in an EC match?

I also think that there's a time constraint issue too. If you're taking big moves toward the end of a match, of course you're going to have to "no sell", if you're going to be on offense afterward.

Or else you're going to have to have a match with not much going on, if you're going to want to realistically sell a lot toward the end. Which I can see an argument for, but I can totally see why wrestlers would not want to do that in today's world, with audiences with the attention span of gnats. 



Yeah1993 said:


> And that may just prove you right because while you find Marufuji to have some mystical aura that he has never had (MIDDLE FINGER!)


:lol I lol'ed.



Yeah1993 said:


> Oh don't get me wrong at his worst I think he is Marufuji-level scumsuck. But no, all he needs is a guy that'll force him to act the underdog and he's irreplaceable. You should watch KENTA/SUWA 9/18/05. SUWA is an honest-to-God heel, and the match is almost like a Rey Mysterio main event.


Thank you for that rec. Will be watching it within the next few days. Funny you mention SUWA, because I actually have this on my list to watch as well:


> 10/24/04 KENTA/Naomichi Marufuji vs. SUWA/Ricky Marvin (GHC Jr. Tag Titles) ****1/2 [Meltzer rating]


You'll never do this, because you don't even watch matches of wrestlers you like :lol, but I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on that Marufuji vs. Kanemoto 05.03.2010 match that I raved over. Someone here recommended it.

Dammit, now I'm racking my brain trying to remember if there's anything in that match that you would hate, lol. Don't remember. But it's definitely something that would keep your attention all the way through, and is a very good watch, IMO. 

I like that look that Kanemoto constantly has on his face, like he's looking at a piece of shit, lol.

Does anyone have any recommended Kanemoto matches?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Spoiler: Superstars update



I managed to get a hold of the guy who taped the ending to Joe/Kidd. He didn't tape the whole match as he thought it would air on Superstars. 

:cena






The Rabid Wolverine said:


> No on has commented on this in regards to the Owens/Cena match, not even me and I don't know why. It was the first thing I noticed about Cena/Owens and probably my favorite aspect. Kevin Owens fucking punches in this match were freaking gorgeous. Did anyone else notice that?


I found a photo yesterday of one of his punches rocking Cena's face, but Google ain't giving it back to me, now. Looks like they landed flush; Lawler'd be proud.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just read the SD spoilers for this week to see who accepted Owens' NXT title open challenge match. :lmao what a waste of fucking time :lmao.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Charlie Haas & Shelton Benjamin vs Billy Kidman & Rey Mysterio (Vengeance 2003)
Eddie Guerrero & Tajiri vs. Charlie Haas & Shelton Benjamin (Ladder Match) (Judgment Day 5/18/03)
Eddie Guerrero & Tajiri vs. Charlie Haas & Shelton Benjamin (SD! 5/22/03)
Eddie Guerrero & Tajiri vs. Charlie Haas & Shelton Benjamin (SD! 7/3/03)
Eddie Guerrero & Tajiri vs Charlie Haas & Shelton Benjamin (SD! 5/29/03)

Watched some WGTT matches, i still consider them underrated TBH. The Eddie/Tajiri trilogy
is fucking fantastic, i forgot just how good they were. Loved the ending to the first match where
Eddie wallops the ref with the chair, then throws it at Hass to make it look like he did it,
thus getting them DQ'd.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

They had a HELL of a 2003. Contenders for the best catalog on the year. Had they not been booked to drop off in the latter months, they may have secured it easily.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Big Cal's World said:


> Just read the SD spoilers for this week to see who accepted Owens' NXT title open challenge match. :lmao what a waste of fucking time :lmao.


:lmao 

How about the main event?

Interested in watching some Roddy Piper stuff.

1. Bret Hart vs Roddy Piper – Wrestlemania 8 (Intercontinental Championship)
2. Greg the Hammer Valentine vs Roddy Piper – Starrcade 83 (Dog Coller Match)
3. Roddy Piper vs. Goldust – Wrestlemania 12 (Hollywood Backlot Brawl)
4. Roddy Piper vs. The Mountie – Royal Rumble 1992 (Intercontinental Championship)
5. Roddy Piper and Paul Orndorff vs. Hulk Hogan and Mr. T. – Wrestlemania 1

curious about these in particular. i've been meaning to watch #2 for a while now, that's probably the first one i will watch as ive never watched it before. i've watched the wrestlemania 1 match once or twice but years and years ago, so i can't remember much. never seen any of the others, but heard piper holds the match with mountie close to his heart because that was his first championship. 

random matches i'm going to watch before a few Piper ones later:

Vengeance 2003 - Lesnar vs Show vs Angle
Survivor Series 2009 - Cena (c) vs HBK vs HHH (dont think ive seen this one)

Vader vs Stone Cold vs Undertaker vs Bret Hart 

Bryan vs Punk - OTL 2012


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Piper vs Mountie is bad. Already told you how epic Piper vs Valentine is & Piper vs Goldust may even be better. vs Bret is great stuff too. I enjoy the WM main event tag. Probably wouldn't call it great, but it's good. Once upon a time it really was the biggest damn thing around. That's always cool.

Watch the Final Four match immediately.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bryan vs Punk - OTL 2012 - I still consider it one of the company's best matches, and have it near the full 5 last time i watched it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> They had a HELL of a 2003. Contenders for the best catalog on the year. Had they not been booked to drop off in the latter months, they may have secured it easily.


I really really dug WGTT/Team Angle. They wrestled I don't know how many matches with either Los Guerreros or Eddie/Tajiri and every single one of them was a fantastic, ***1/2+ affair with 2 of the Eddie/Tajiri tags being easily ****+. One of them, I believe it was the May 20th or something, is a top 3 MOTYC for me. 

To be honest Cesaro/Kidd kind of remind me a bit of WGTT. Cesaro is obviously better than either Benjamin or Haas, but still, the dynamic feels similar and the blending of their styles is done in a similar way. I mean this as a big compliment btw because WGTT was awesome in 2003, best team probably besides Los Guerreros/Eddie & Tajiri.

Here is a fun topic, you all can comment on it if you want or ignore it. Which team or teams are your all time favorite "thrown together" team. I'm talking about guys that were established singles guys who got thrown together because the booker had nothing better for them and they ended up shining bright. I'm not talking about teams like DX, Rock n Sock, or Rated RKO were management obviouslu had a big plan for the team, or teams like the Hart Foundation where they became a long term established team. I'm talking about team ups that last a year, maybe a little less maybe a bit more, where two established singles guys are thrown together and become great before going back into singles competition.

Off the top of my head, Eddie/Tajiri, Austin/Pillman, and Bryan/Kane are probably my favorites.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Rah said:


> I found a photo yesterday of one of his punches rocking Cena's face, but Google ain't giving it back to me, now. Looks like they landed flush; Lawler'd be proud.


Did it go a little something like this?









There were actually a few elbows early that also looked fab - and Owens was sporting a bit of a shiner in the video package they just put up on YouTube with Owens. I found the strikes in it to be spot on - just a great match all around.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

A couple more notes from NXT. The tag team of Tyson Kidd & Justin Gabriel (think they were called Airstrike) was pretty cool. They had some good chemistry and think they had a small run together on the main roster if I'm not mistaken. Interesting that the Ascension circa 2012 weren't the same two guys. It was Connor and some guy named Kevin Cameron or something. They still sucked but damn their entrance was EPIC. Cool as fuck.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Here is a fun topic, you all can comment on it if you want or ignore it. Which team or teams are your all time favorite "thrown together" team. I'm talking about guys that were established singles guys who got thrown together because the booker had nothing better for them and they ended up shining bright. I'm not talking about teams like DX, Rock n Sock, or Rated RKO were management obviouslu had a big plan for the team, or teams like the Hart Foundation where they became a long term established team. I'm talking about team ups that last a year, maybe a little less maybe a bit more, where two established singles guys are thrown together and become great before going back into singles competition.
> 
> Off the top of my head, Eddie/Tajiri, Austin/Pillman, and Bryan/Kane are probably my favorites.


Ziggler & Swagger! I don't remember any specific matches but man they could GO and I wish they would've had a Tag Title run (they didn't right? ).


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

vs. Air Boom - Vengeance 2011 

Michaels/Cena if that counts

Some guy on YT uploaded all those WCW 1992 tags, so going through those atm


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> The tag team of Tyson Kidd & Justin Gabriel (think they were called Airstrike) was pretty cool. They had some good chemistry and think they had a small run together on the main roster if I'm not mistaken.


I LOVED the Kidd/Gabriel team. Easily one of the best things on WWE TV at the time; I'll probably always be bitterly disappointed that more wasn't made of them.

Still, the Hollywood Blonds probably have to be considered the gold standard for that kind of "thrown together" tag team, right? As great as some others ended up being, I don't think anybody could have made more of such a situation than they did. Less than a calendar year together, and still probably on most fans' all-time top 20 lists? Team Hell No is the only one I can think of that comes close, and I can't imagine fans still looking back that fondly on them 20 years later. Say this for being one of those storied "talented acts WCW didn't give a shit about": It can do wonders for your legacy in the long run.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Skins said:


> Some guy on YT uploaded all those WCW 1992 tags, so going through those atm


Link? I can use it as a reference so i know what to watch.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fav thrown together tag team? Hmmm... Eddie/Tajiri were great together. Chavo should have been injured more often. Team Hell No cracked me up. Rare that WWE "comedy" makes me laugh, but those guys together were magic. Helps that Daniels is a goofy bastard and Kane can make some of the most awesome faces ever. Austin and Foley were fun in 97 too, with Foley trying desperately to get Austin to tag with him, and in the end THE DUDE won him over :lmao. And speaking of Foley, Rock and Sock Connection was tremendous. We all know I can't stand The Rock, but his stuff with Mick was definitely awesome, even I can't hate on that. Sure, the matches sucked, but it was WWF 1999 after all. Matches were like 12th on the list of 13 most important things to have on the show. Logic being number 13, obviously.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Brock said:


> Link? I can use it as a reference so i know what to watch.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNdugwlcg0g

Channel reminds me of your DM


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Bruce L said:


> I LOVED the Kidd/Gabriel team. Easily one of the best things on WWE TV at the time; I'll probably always be bitterly disappointed that more wasn't made of them.
> 
> Still, the Hollywood Blonds probably have to be considered the gold standard for that kind of "thrown together" tag team, right? As great as some others ended up being, I don't think anybody could have made more of such a situation than they did. Less than a calendar year together, and still probably on most fans' all-time top 20 lists? Team Hell No is the only one I can think of that comes close, and I can't imagine fans still looking back that fondly on them 20 years later. Say this for being one of those storied "talented acts WCW didn't give a shit about": It can do wonders for your legacy in the long run.


Eh, I disagree. I think in 20 years we will still look back very fondly on Hell No. If Bryan comes back from injury and ascends back to the top of the card for another 3-4 years before retiring, we will look back on Hell No as the unintended launching point for one of the greatest wrestlers ever and getting them into the main event. I can't say that Bryan would NOT have gotten into the main event without Hell No, but I CAN say that from 2010-mid 2012 people were not freaking out and going crazy for Bryan and urgin WWE to push him into the main event. It was only after he teamed with Kane and proved he could consistently be the most entertaining act both in ring AND out of the ring that WWE were forced to let him main event SS 2013 against Cena, and not only that but they let him win the damn thing. Even with Cena being injured they still could have had him go over Bryan only for Randy to cash in. But by the time the event rolled around, there was no way Bryan should have lost that match with the mountain of support he had, all due to his run with Kane.

So yea, just like how the Hollywood Blondes era gets credit for letting Austin feel comfortable in his own skin and inject real personality into his character, the same can be said for Hell No with Bryan. Not to mention they had a heaping ton of fabulous matches, they helped put the Shield on the map in a big way and were the best part of the show pretty much every week. I still get a big kick out of the Dr. Shelby schtick.

I think Hell No should be seen as on the same level as the Hollywood Blondes team.

Personally, though, Eddie/Tajiri will always be my favorite because of their instant chemistry, the quality of their work (never a single match that was bad, all were good to great) the goofy sketches with Eddie trying to teach Tajiri the Guerrero way, and the fact that every single one of their matches was entirely unique. Both guys were world class, it didn't matter who was the hot tag or who was getting the heat, it worked either way and each could play both roles equally well. And let's be real here, Eddie's antics on the ring apron alone made that team must see TV. You didn't know where to watch because Tajiri would be in the ring tearing it up and selling while Eddie is on the apron concoting all sorts of different ways to cheat and get the advantage. Tying the tag ropes together :lmao. Priceless.



Skins said:


> vs. Air Boom - Vengeance 2011
> 
> Michaels/Cena if that counts
> 
> Some guy on YT uploaded all those WCW 1992 tags, so going through those atm


Did Michaels/Cena work more than 3-4 matches? If so that certainly counts.



Big Cal's World said:


> Fav thrown together tag team? Hmmm... Eddie/Tajiri were great together. Chavo should have been injured more often. Team Hell No cracked me up. Rare that WWE "comedy" makes me laugh, but those guys together were magic. Helps that Daniels is a goofy bastard and Kane can make some of the most awesome faces ever. Austin and Foley were fun in 97 too, with Foley trying desperately to get Austin to tag with him, and in the end THE DUDE won him over :lmao. And speaking of Foley, Rock and Sock Connection was tremendous. We all know I can't stand The Rock, but his stuff with Mick was definitely awesome, even I can't hate on that. Sure, the matches sucked, but it was WWF 1999 after all. Matches were like 12th on the list of 13 most important things to have on the show. Logic being number 13, obviously.


I excluded Rock n Sock because they weren't just thrown together. WWE put them together with big plans, Foley was eventually supposed to turn heel on Rock as Cactus Jack and draw big money. But Rock never really allowed himself to be a big enough baby face for that to be effective, so they scratched that and put Mick with Hunter to get him ready to face a baby face Rock.

I almost forgot, another awesomely fun throw together team was Yoko and Owen. THAT was interesting, Owen would fly around and basically do all the work until he would tag Yoko in to rampage like a wild rhinoceros and eventually sit on someone.

I remember thinking the Xpac/Kane tag was just about the coolest thing when I was a kid, now not so much but back in 1999 or so it was one of my favorite acts.

Jericho/Eddie would definitely be one if they could have just had a few more matches to really qualify. Their match against Meng/Barbarian is such a blast, as is the one against Malenko/Benoit.

And honestly, this might be an unpopular opinion but I'm a fan of the Benoit/Angle team or Bangle as Cal would say. Them acting like two testosterone filled meat heads constantly bickering and trying to one up one another while not being allowed to actually fight was pure Gold because of how realistic it is. You could totally picture Angle getting mad at Benoit for getting the pin instead of him, or for not putting on a submission as well as Angle thought he could. It seemed like every match they had, win lose or draw, they would end up nose to nose hollering at each other and bickering like school boys all the way to the back. That was awesome stuff.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

There was a moment during that Bray/Reigns match on RAW this week that I loved, which was when Reigns was doing his smiley, douchebag, shtick. Bray smiles right back and nods his head gleefully like "Yeah, that's the spirit!" Almost like a proud dad.

Just loved that moment, because so few people would respond that way, and it totally fit Bray's character. Meanwhile, that's a moment that I wonder if 50% of the audience even really noticed.

That stays with me about the match.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Team Hell No were the GOAT, seriously.










So much gold.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Definitely Team Hell No, the anger management segments were amazing.

Are the two handicap matches from TLC 2013 any good? I've not seen either but both sound intriguing.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Speaking of Team Hell No, how many of you knew they a WWE Tag Team Title defense against Michael McGillicutty & Johnny Curtis on NXT in 2012? That's right, the all time dream match! :lol Match was actually pretty solid but obviously nothing to go out of your way to see. 

The bigger question, how many of you knew THIS match actually existed:

*WWE United States Championship*
Antonio Cesaro (c) vs. Tyson Kidd (_NXT 10/31/2012_) - *** 1/4 (Tyson Kidd was on fire throughout this time period. He actually seems watered down when you watch him in comparison these days. This match in particular has some excellent matwork in the early minutes where you get the feeling Cesaro underestimated him. Kidd gets a big flurry of offense in before being finished off with ease. Still a nifty little match to look back on)

Only a couple more matches to go before I'm through with 2012. 2013 is looking pretty fucking awesome. :mark:

EDIT: Rollins and Jinder Mahal had another really strong NXT Title match on 12/12/12. More back work from Jinder and more good selling & bumping from Seth. *** 1/2


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

@The Rabid Wolverine, you mentioned that you're trying to watch all of Meltzer's ***** matches. Did you ever see:


> 6/28/97 El Samurai vs. Koji Kanemoto (Super Juniors Tournament Finals) *****


If so, what did you think about it? Don't give away the result, though, please.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Eh, I disagree. I think in 20 years we will still look back very fondly on Hell No. *If Bryan comes back from injury and ascends back to the top of the card for another 3-4 years before retiring, we will look back on Hell No as the unintended launching point for one of the greatest wrestlers ever and getting them into the main event.* I can't say that Bryan would NOT have gotten into the main event without Hell No, but I CAN say that from 2010-mid 2012 people were not freaking out and going crazy for Bryan and urgin WWE to push him into the main event. It was only after he teamed with Kane and proved he could consistently be the most entertaining act both in ring AND out of the ring that WWE were forced to let him main event SS 2013 against Cena, and not only that but they let him win the damn thing. Even with Cena being injured they still could have had him go over Bryan only for Randy to cash in. But by the time the event rolled around, there was no way Bryan should have lost that match with the mountain of support he had, all due to his run with Kane.
> 
> So yea, just like how the Hollywood Blondes era gets credit for letting Austin feel comfortable in his own skin and inject real personality into his character, the same can be said for Hell No with Bryan. Not to mention they had a heaping ton of fabulous matches, they helped put the Shield on the map in a big way and were the best part of the show pretty much every week. I still get a big kick out of the Dr. Shelby schtick.
> 
> I think Hell No should be seen as on the same level as the Hollywood Blondes team.


Hmm. I don't disagree that strongly with any of your points, actually; I'm just not sure I share your faith that the bolded part will come true. (Also, as a huge fan of Bryan's ROH/indie stuff and intermittent WWE viewer, I tend to see him as having come into WWE as a finished product that the general audience took a while to really "get" due to the way he was booked early on, whereas Austin in '92-'93 was clearly not yet where he was going to be and WCW clearly had no interest in helping him get there.) 

Personally, the thing I saw in the Blonds that I didn't see in Hell No was two guys slapped together as a team for lack of anything better to do who forged an honest-to-goodness _tag team_ out of it, with the matching gear and all, and made themselves the best of a pretty strong pack in practically no time. Hell No, to me, never quite stopped being two singles guys spinning their wheels, despite the through-the-roof chemistry and entertaining act. Basically, I'd exclude them from this discussion for the same reasons you'd exclude Rock & Sock -- which may just be a product of the respective companies and eras. (WWE isn't exactly renowned for building tag teams to last.) Still deserve a major honorable mention, though.

Also with you on Owen/Yoko, and, if they count, Angle/Benoit. No idea why liking them as a team would be an unpopular opinion, since they absolutely freaking ruled.

While I'm at it, let me throw a shoutout to Arn Anderson & Bobby Eaton, the Unholy Alliance of Mikey Whipwreck & Tajiri, Naomichi Marufuji & Takashi Sugiura, the Kash/Noble Pit Bulls, Vicious & Delicious (Bagwell & Norton), and Air Boom.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Jericho and Christian is another, loved their team and break up angle.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ryan193 said:


> Are the two handicap matches from TLC 2013 any good? I've not seen either but both sound intriguing.


I liked them both a lot, although the booking of both of those matches were pretty dumb. Punk and Bryan are two of the best babyface workers I've ever seen, and putting them in a handicap situation is always gold. Worth watching, but I have no clue why they didn't just consolidate those matches and add a few other folks.

Favorite makeshift team for me has to be Jericho and Eddie. Love everything about that team. These two cruiserweights somehow became the two most over heels in WCW. Love the Bangle mention. I'm guessing that Bookdust doesn't count but that was a great team too. Another team to throw in would be Punk and Bryan in 2013. Oh, and also Jeri-Show, but that might not count either.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Combinations of Bret/Owen/Bulldog teaming up usually produced quality TBH.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Ryan193 said:


> Jericho and Christian is another, loved their team and break up angle.


Vitamin C was indeed an excellent team. Forgot about the.



LilOlMe said:


> @The Rabid Wolverine, you mentioned that you're trying to watch all of Meltzer's ***** matches. Did you ever see:
> 
> If so, what did you think about it? Don't give away the result, though, please.


That's still on my "to watch" list. Started watching it late one night, couldn't get into it, made it about 7-10 minutes through and turned it off to be watched in full another day. Couldn't tell if the match was just really dull or my brain was overloaded and needed a break from pro graps.



funnyfaces1 said:


> I liked them both a lot, although the booking of both of those matches were pretty dumb. Punk and Bryan are two of the best babyface workers I've ever seen, and putting them in a handicap situation is always gold. Worth watching, but I have no clue why they didn't just consolidate those matches and add a few other folks.
> 
> Favorite makeshift team for me has to be Jericho and Eddie. Love everything about that team. These two cruiserweights somehow became the two most over heels in WCW. Love the Bangle mention. I'm guessing that Bookdust doesn't count but that was a great team too. Another team to throw in would be Punk and Bryan in 2013. Oh, and also Jeri-Show, but that might not count either.


BookDust most certainly counts and now I feel stupid for not mentioning them. Two established singles wrestlers? Check. Thrown together because they didn't have anything better to do? Check. No real plans for them in the beginning, just kind of a "well, let's see how this goes....."? Check. After breaking up went on about their business as singles performers? Check. BookDust meets all the made up qualifications I created when I posed this question, and they deserve top 5 status for best thrown together teams IMO. Seriously, did they ever have a flat out bad tag match? I don't think so, it's easily the best ring work period of Bookers career, he was phenomenal as the guy on the apron rooting his teammate on waiting for the hot tag. And Dustin as the FIP, I mean sheeeeiiit. When you talk about the best FIP tag match guys, of course Ricky Morton will always be the first to be mentioned, but after that, for me personally, it's Dustin. He's just a flawless baby face, he's got real fire, his selling is as real as it gets, and he knows how to juice up a crowd and tease that tag until finally getting it. 

BookDust vs UnAmericans and BookDust vs Vitamin C were two match ups that produced excellent matches. The Smackdown 6 gets all the love from that time period, and rightly so as they raised the bar for the entire company, but BookDust and Vitamin C deserve their props for being awesome.



Brock said:


> Combinations of Bret/Owen/Bulldog teaming up usually produced quality TBH.


Really love the Bulldog/Owen combo, those guys were superb.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You know I might agree with you on Dustin's stance in the list of great tag team FIP. I was reading this story about Dustin's mindset in a wrestling match and it truly was fascinating. Dustin's goal isn't to simply appease his fans; instead, Goldy tries to search for that one person in the crowd that looks like they don't even want to be at the show and are only there to accompany their child or their friend. Throughout the match, Dustin will periodically look back at that fan and try to make them intrigued with what is going on in the match. By the end of the match, Dustin will get that fan to become emotionally involved with everything going on in the match, and that's what he sees as successfully doing his job.

It really is spectacular when you think about it of how Dustin is able to work as a babyface considering his stature. The man looks like he could be a power forward in the NBA, but he wrestles like a point guard. And somehow he performs so well that nobody questions what on paper looks like an illogical idea. Goldust could have easily been a generic hoss, but he molded himself into something greater.

EDIT: :lmao Chavo Guerrero just got his ass kicked by a girl.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

^Oh, ok, thanks, Rabid.



Yeah1993 said:


> FUN TIME!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh my Goodness. Forget that Marufuji match that you'll probably shit on anyway. You must at least watch this match, please:


> Ziggler/Alberto Payback - never saw it.


So curious to hear your opinion on this. It's what made me start watching current wrestling regularly. Loved it so much.

Um, and try to watch it within, like, six months, please.

It's at the 58:51 mark here, if you need it. But first pause it and let the grey bar load all the way until at least there, or else it won't work right.

Or better yet, just subscribe to the network for high quality. :hunter


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

They announced on NXT that on July 4th they're gonna have a live special on the Network from Tokyo, Japan. Kevin Owens is gonna defend the NXT Championship against Finn Balor. Now if you remember, I _think_ this was supposed to be the show where Balor faced Jericho. I could be wrong but Jericho is still advertised for the show. This is also the same night Lesnar is advertised against Kofi Kingston. :lol

Imagine if they switched it to Lesnar vs. Jericho. :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

LilOlMe said:


> *edited this earlier stuff out. I pretty much agree with what you said there*
> 
> Whereas you were basically looking at it as if you don't like the entree, it ruins the entire meal, and thus the whole thing sucks. And that totally makes sense, especially if you look at no-selling as the most importance piece (akin to the entree).
> 
> Am I summing it up correctly? We were talking about a similar thing, just with a different way of looking at it.


Only if the no-selling is consistent, I guess. If that German spot was the one bad thing about a perfectly good match with fine selling; I'd still hate the spot, but not the overall match. Likening that to a meal would be like a pizza with one really bad slice for some reason. If the no-selling is consistent, then it's just flat out a bad meal. I guess there can other positives about the match, but, yeah, consistent no-selling is a deal-breaker. I can point out things about the match I thought were OK, but the match is pretty much dead to me if they don't sell. Like, IDK, a pizza that I think could have been saved had they not put on five stupid ass toppings and just left it cheese.



> And I don't think you're wrong, especially because like I said, I'm sure there are major things that totally turn me off to matches. Just in this case, I didn't feel that this was big enough to turn me off. Maybe it would on re-watch. Moody, moody.  But I doubt it, because I loved the other stuff so much.


The mood thing IS true to some degree. An example to me is Rey/Punk from ER2010. When I watched that PPV and wrote about it, my thoughts were "I feel like I didn't enjoy this as much as I should've; will watch again later". I wound up watching it later and thinking the exact same thing, but, I mean, I chalked it down to 'mood' the first time, so it does happen. Probably rarely because if somebody is watching wrestling then they actually want to watch wrestling at that time, but it does happen. 



> However, as for your Goldberg/La Parka example, that's a good one. I think that people who view this as sports entertainment, would genuinely be fine with that. I think that they would say that that totally fits Goldberg's character, and fits what the WCW had been building up.


I guess that's the thing, I don't think a character should be one that doesn't feel a chairshot to the head. I'm a pretty big Goldberg fan and part of that is his energetic bulldozer machine squashes, but when he sells he can really sell - another part of why I like him so much. If someone else thinks otherwise, then, OK. 



> Purists should hate that, and they'd be right that that's not realistic at all. But are the people who think that that's good in a sports entertainment sense really "wrong"? You know, people who feel fine with wrestling acknowledging itself as "fake" and more of a show?
> 
> It's objectively bad to people who are not ok with wrestling showing its hand like that, but what about with the people who are ok with it?


"Wrong"? No. I suppose, anyway. There was a discussion in this thread a while back where I said something like "you'd have to think there was at least some truth to your opinion - otherwise you wouldn't have it." I tried my best not to sound like a jerk while saying that, but I stand by it. How can you have the opinion that one thing is better than another - without thinking it's legitimately better than other? 

It's a really odd thing with wrestling opinions. If somebody came in and said - with complete honesty - they thought Headbanger Mosh was a better wrestler than Ric Flair, they would get laughed at IMMEDIATELY. Hell, look at the reactions whenever Meltzer's star ratings get posted. Nobody who says "he's lost his mind" or "lmao meltzer" doesn't think he's wrong, right?

Once again I'm really not trying to sound like an asshole but you'd have to think there's some truth to what you think is objective. Not *better*, or more valid, than anyone else's objectiveness, but at least somewhat truthful. Otherwise nobody can ever be objective about anything. Which I mean wouldn't kill anyone but where's the FUN in that





> But anyway, I'm saying those last two points just to say that I'm not really taking a side on this part of the conversation. *Just saying that the "objectively good/bad" thing is blurry too, because it depends what school of thought you're coming from.*


Oh yeah, definitely. Objectivity is still opinion. I mean, it's THE opinion. If I say I like Mark Henry more than Bryan Danielson, tenfold - and I do - nobody can say I'm say I'm wrong. No. NOBODY. I know, for a FACT, I like Mark Henry way more than I like Bryan Danielson. That's not an opinion. "Liking" isn't an opinion. Duh, y'know. This is nothing to new anybody who's reading this. I completely don't think he's better though. That's an opinion.

Bold part is true. I used to love Angle. If I watched Marufuji in 2008 I'd've loved him too. I kind of like that because I'm able to view those Angle matches from that point of view because I used to be there. While watching Angle (the bad Angle) I never think "I used to think this was good" or "why did I think this was good?" I just think "this isn't good." 



> It's interesting, because I love to analyze everything in life, so I guess that's why taking wrestling "seriously" on these boards can be appealing to me. However, there is also a beauty in not doing so. I'm not being all like "it's not so serious", 'cause Lord knows I treat it as such many times.
> 
> I'm just saying that I was thinking about this conversation, because I've mentioned here before that when I watch with casuals, they're of a totally different mindset. I guess that's why you said that crowds eat up those suplex spots. It's true, and while we could tell them all the reasons why this shouldn't be (like I could have tried to shout to the crowd every time Hulk "Hulked up"), at the end of the day they could easily turn around and say "are you really saying this about a 'sport' where a 67 year old CEO gets beaten up with a kendu stick by his punk, 30 something year old, employee?"



I get that. Well, wrestling is fucking stupid. I might take it seriously but, IDK. Only because I have so much context? I guess it's based on what's individually happening. I don't like no-selling because you're genuinely not selling what just happened to you. WHY are you doing that? You got dropped on your back - act like it fuckin hurt, even if it didn't. You make your opponent look like a weak asshole who couldn't injure a one-legged kitten with a bazooka. Note: Exaggeration (other than MARUFUJI!!! :mark

I tried to think of a comparison and seriously the best one I can think of movies. Surely you've seen a CinemaSins "Everything Wrong With....." video. There's no reason that can't be done with wrestling, or anything else. Even in real sport, sort of. I don't watch any, but a guy makes a dumb decision (esp at a crucial time) in a football game or something and he'll prob get ROASTED. 

I guess I just don't like the thought process that wrestling is fake so it doesnt matter what happens in it.



> It's like either shit is meant to be taken seriously or it's not. But it's never that black and white for us, it seems. And that can be what makes it difficult as to what's deemed acceptable and good and what's not.
> 
> I don't even know how to articulate my point really, but I know what I mean in my head.


Nah, I think I know what you mean too. Angle/Benoit at RR03. Like, it worked, I guess. It *really* worked. Standing ovation (whether it was started by Shane like the rumour says or not), goes down in history as a GOAT match to a lot of people, will be forever remembered. I'm definitely not the only one who came out that thinking that finishers look like useless rubbish, but *thousands* didn't. Either, IDK, they didn't care, or they thought the finishers actually looked good. Back to the 'truth' thing I really do think the finishers being traded in that match looked like they meant absolutely nothing. Soooo many people think it's amazing though. Does that make it good? How many TNA fans chanted "this is awesome" at the Angle/Hardy match? Have you SEEN that match?





> For example, Neville did a brilliant sell job with his knee during a recent RAW match with Barrett. That was great. Then they continued it to the next week of RAW. I think I generally am more of a purist than many on the board (to the point where I tend to like the people that most people consider boring), yet I was almost kind of hoping that Neville _would_ no-sell. Not because selling isn't important to me, and not because I think that that would necessarily be the "right" thing to do, but fuck. I can appreciate a great sell job (as I did the previous week with Neville/Barrett), but sometimes you just don't want to watch a match full of that. Or at least I didn't.
> 
> There is a beauty in watching the sell, but sometimes I feel that it can be a distraction. Especially when you know that there's no real purpose to it other than it being a thing to do in a match.


I'd've loved that, honestly. WWE won't capitilize on that because they suck, but "guy tears up another guy's leg so much that he can't be a flyer for a bit and has to change his game, even for the next week'? - Fuuuuuuuuck yes. Gives a match a story before it begins.



> People soften things up for their final move, and I can appreciate that, but sometimes I don't think that that's _really_ the driving force, even though it's totally logical. It's just their way to fill time that's actually sensible.


Never minded filling time as long as it isn't ridiculously obvious they're doing the move purely to fill time. If it's logical then, nah, never cared. It usually isn't illogical so much as it just is uninteresting, though.



> But back to the point about selling & being a distraction. I criticized Bryan last year for not selling much at the EC (he even did a cringeworthy yes chant with both arms during a promo, like nothing was wrong, lol). People responded that it was a dumb idea to have him go in there with a "bad shoulder", because it takes away from the match.
> 
> You could respond that actually, Bryan & the guys could have gotten creative with his shoulder in the EC, and therefore the shoulder storyline could have been more amazing, and you'd be right. At the same time, I totally understand & think I agree with where the others are coming from. Do I really want to see a deliberately limited Bryan working in an EC match?


Yeah, no, I don't agree with the others (whoever they were) at all. Makes it that much more interesting. Is it "better" than non-hurt Bryan going into EC. No. Hell no. It isn't worse either, though. It's just something different.




> I also think that there's a time constraint issue too. If you're taking big moves toward the end of a match, of course you're going to have to "no sell", if you're going to be on offense afterward.
> 
> Or else you're going to have to have a match with not much going on, if you're going to want to realistically sell a lot toward the end. Which I can see an argument for, but I can totally see why wrestlers would not want to do that in today's world, with audiences with the attention span of gnats.


This is what I meant when I brought up funnyfaces saying we all tolerate some no-selling. *Technically*, yeah, that's true, but there are, IDK, 'ways' to get around it. I don't actually think it's n-selling, but it IS selling 'less', I can say, than the person normally might.

Even then, I think Kawada is still my GOAT, and he's as good a seller as I've ever seen. His best matches are also littered big spots. The way he (and a guy like Misawa) manages to be the best seller in the world while creating a fight upward is just unreal to me. It's *exactly* why I thought Christian (in the best McIntyre match) holding his arm in pain in mid-air while landing on feet was fantastic. He doesn't give two shits what he's doing in that match - he's making it known that arm is killing him. Somebody else might have a head injury and wobble while violently throwing punches. Maybe in all SERIOUS realism he shouldn't be on his feet, but he's showing it still had a very clear effect on him. 

It's really, really, really, really, really match-specific. Which is why when I talk about some matches I really like mentioning the tiniest things. Some people might think I'm looking at it too deeply but I'm honestly not. I don't pause a match to analyse what just happened. I don't sit there with a notepad. I don't even ponder what the match is about. I watch the match and whatever runs through my head runs through my head. 



> You'll never do this, because you don't even watch matches of wrestlers you like :lol, but I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on that Marufuji vs. Kanemoto 05.03.2010 match that I raved over. Someone here recommended it.
> 
> Dammit, now I'm racking my brain trying to remember if there's anything in that match that you would hate, lol. Don't remember. But it's definitely something that would keep your attention all the way through, and is a very good watch, IMO.
> 
> ...


Kanemoto is a guy who was a pretty good junior in the 90s and seemed to have grown into a really good grumpy bastard in the 21st century. He's also a guy I can barely think of 5 matches to recommend because I really haven't followed his career too much. I'm trying to think of recs. I wanna say I've seen the ***** Meltzer match w/ el Samurai but I seriously don't remember it at all. Kanemoto has a pretty popular run from 97-99 ish. Daaamn I am drawing a blank. I did watch some Kanemoto for the 2000s list, I'll check later. Pretty sure there's a really good match with either Nishimura or Nagata. Maybe both.

I'll watch Marufuji/Kanemoto, btw. I really will. I WILL. Might even watch that tag b/c SUWA's in it. HEY, SHUT UP. I might watch it. DON'T LAUGH. 



Another note: IDK where you dug that post up (one w/ Zigg/Del Rio) but I seem to have confused the Eddie/JBL JD and cage matches. JD match is an easy ***3/4+ 




The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Here is a fun topic, you all can comment on it if you want or ignore it. Which team or teams are your all time favorite "thrown together" team. I'm talking about guys that were established singles guys who got thrown together because the booker had nothing better for them and they ended up shining bright.


Owen & Yoko. Almost same answer for favourite tag team, probably. :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Misawa is on your list of all-time best sellers?


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Kanemoto had good matches in the '00s with both Nishimura and Nagata. I'm thinking of a Nishimura match from the '04 G1 Climax which is quite good, and a Nagata match from the '06 tournament that's one of the best puro matches of the decade.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Misawa is on your list of all-time best sellers?


Of course. Don't see why he wouldn't be.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Here is a fun topic, you all can comment on it if you want or ignore it. Which team or teams are your all time favorite "thrown together" team. I'm talking about guys that were established singles guys who got thrown together because the booker had nothing better for them and they ended up shining bright. I'm not talking about teams like DX, Rock n Sock, or Rated RKO were management obviouslu had a big plan for the team, or teams like the Hart Foundation where they became a long term established team. I'm talking about team ups that last a year, maybe a little less maybe a bit more, where two established singles guys are thrown together and become great before going back into singles competition.
> 
> Off the top of my head, Eddie/Tajiri, Austin/Pillman, and Bryan/Kane are probably my favorites.


This is tough. The three you name are three I love, for one. But let me think on it. 

It might be Booker T & Goldust. Or Mortis & Wrath.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> A couple more notes from NXT. The tag team of Tyson Kidd & Justin Gabriel (think they were called Airstrike) was pretty cool. They had some good chemistry and think they had a small run together on the main roster if I'm not mistaken. Interesting that the Ascension circa 2012 weren't the same two guys. It was Connor and some guy named Kevin Cameron or something. They still sucked but damn their entrance was EPIC. Cool as fuck.


International Airstrike. Fun team. It was Tyson's best tag while w/WWE for my money. Best fit. Even if Cesaro & Smith are MUCH > Gabriel.

*Kenneth Cameron, btw. aka the current Bram in TNA.



LilOlMe said:


> There was a moment during that Bray/Reigns match on RAW this week that I loved, which was when Reigns was doing his smiley, douchebag, shtick. Bray smiles right back and nods his head gleefully like "Yeah, that's the spirit!" Almost like a proud dad.
> 
> Just loved that moment, because so few people would respond that way, and it totally fit Bray's character. Meanwhile, that's a moment that I wonder if 50% of the audience even really noticed.
> 
> That stays with me about the match.


I feel like a lot of what makes Bray good is lost on the general public.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> The bigger question, how many of you knew THIS match actually existed:
> 
> *WWE United States Championship*
> Antonio Cesaro (c) vs. Tyson Kidd (_NXT 10/31/2012_) - *** 1/4 (Tyson Kidd was on fire throughout this time period. He actually seems watered down when you watch him in comparison these days. This match in particular has some excellent matwork in the early minutes where you get the feeling Cesaro underestimated him. Kidd gets a big flurry of offense in before being finished off with ease. Still a nifty little match to look back on)


That's what made Cesaro's US championship reign fun. The random short matches vs lower card guys & had a neat formula behind em. iirc this match was better than Cesaro vs Kidd on Superstars, but I'd have to watch them over to be sure. Cesaro vs Neville for the US Championship is where it is at, though.

I've been reliving some random NXT 2013 stuff over again. Zayn vs Swagger is the hottest that crowd has ever been, bar none. Like seriously. Outrageous 100% support just for the babyface to pull out a victory. Brilliant.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Will respond to everything else later, but...:




Yeah1993 said:


> I'll watch Marufuji/Kanemoto, btw. I really will. I WILL.
> 
> Might even watch that tag b/c SUWA's in it. HEY, SHUT UP. I might watch it. DON'T LAUGH.


Ok. :grin2:

lol, in 2020. To keep with tradition, of course. Just for accuracy sake, it looks like that SUWA tag was on 10/22/2004. Or at least that's what it says on Youtube.





Yeah1993 said:


> Another note: IDK where you dug that post up (one w/ Zigg/Del Rio) but I seem to have confused the Eddie/JBL JD and cage matches. JD match is an easy ***3/4+


I have my ways. All of the "never seen this one" comments made me laugh. Then it made me sad when I saw that written for the match I most wanted to see your rating for. :flip



Yeah1993 said:


> Kanemoto is a guy who was a pretty good junior in the 90s and seemed to have grown into a really good grumpy bastard in the 21st century. He's also a guy I can barely think of 5 matches to recommend because I really haven't followed his career too much. I'm trying to think of recs. I wanna say I've seen the ***** Meltzer match w/ el Samurai but I seriously don't remember it at all. Kanemoto has a pretty popular run from 97-99 ish. Daaamn I am drawing a blank. I did watch some Kanemoto for the 2000s list, I'll check later. Pretty sure there's a really good match with either Nishimura or Nagata. Maybe both.





Bruce L said:


> Kanemoto had good matches in the '00s with both Nishimura and Nagata. I'm thinking of a Nishimura match from the '04 G1 Climax which is quite good, and a Nagata match from the '06 tournament that's one of the best puro matches of the decade.


Grumpy Bastard is a good way to describe him, and I have a feeling I'll prefer him in that role over his young juniors role. Mainly because so few grumpy bastards have the body type or style that he does.

Thank you guys for your comments. I made a list of Meltzer's *** 3/4 & above matches for him that I could find. I didn't include some six men or above tag team matches.

If there's any that stand out as especially good besides the ones you mentioned, let me know:



Spoiler: spoiler



6/13/92 Pegasus Kid & El Samurai vs. Tiger Mask (Koji Kanemoto) & Jushin Liger ****

8/11/92 Koji Kanemoto & Osamu Nishimura vs. Satoshi Kojima & Hiroyoshi Yamamoto ***1/2 [1992 G1 Climax Day 4]


9/23/92 El Samurai & Koji Kanemoto vs. Jushin Liger & Yoshihiro Yamamoto ***1/2 [Battle Hold Arena]


12/11/92 Ultimo Dragon & Masao Orihara vs. Jushin Liger & Koji Kanemoto ****


12/19/92 Ultimo Dragon & Masao Orihara vs. Jushin Liger & Koji Kanemoto ****


4/1/95 Koji Kanemoto vs. Pegasus Kid (IWGP Junior Heavyweight Championship) ****1/2

4/22/95 Pegasus Kid & Shinjiro Otani vs. Gran Hamada & Koji Kanemoto ****1/4

5/6/95 Koji Kanemoto vs. Shinjiro Otani (IWGP Junior Heavyweight & UWA Junior Championships) ****1/2

7/8/95 Koji Kanemoto vs. Sabu (IWGP Junior Heavyweight Championship) ****

7/15/95 Black Tiger vs. Koji Kanemoto ****1/2

10/7/95 Koji Kanemoto vs. Pegasus Kid (IWGP Junior Heavyweight Championship) ****1/2

12/27/95 Koji Kanemoto vs. Alex Wright ***3/4 (WCW)

1/4/96 Jushin Liger vs. Koji Kanemoto (IWGP Junior Heavyweight Championship) ****

3/2/96 Black Tiger & Jushin Liger vs. Shinjiro Otani & Koji Kanemoto ****

4/27/96 Taka Michinoku, Shinjiro Otani & Koji Kanemoto vs. El Samurai, Jushin Liger & Gran Hamada ****1/4

12/7/96 Shinjiro Otani & Koji Kanemoto vs. El Samurai & Jushin Liger ****1/4

2/8/97 Shinjiro Otani, Koji Kanemoto & Tatsuhito Takaiwa vs. Norio Honaga, Jushin Liger & El Samurai ****1/2

2/15/97 Koji Kanemoto & Shinjiro Otani vs. El Samurai & Jushin Liger ****1/4

2/22/97 Koji Kanemoto vs. Taka Michinoku ****

3/1/97 Jushin Liger vs. Koji Kanemoto (J Crown Tournament) ****3/4

3/15/97 Pegasus Kid, Jushin Liger & El Samurai vs. Tatsuhito Takaiwa, Shinjiro Otani & Koji Kanemoto ****1/4

5/24/97 Dick Togo, Men's Teoh, Hanzo Nakajima, Koji Kanemoto & Shinjiro Otani vs. Great Sasuke, Norio Honaga, El Samurai Gran Hamada & Super Delfin (2/3 Falls) ****

6/7/97 Koji Kanemoto vs. Gran Naniwa (Super Juniors Tournament) ****

6/28/97 El Samurai vs. Koji Kanemoto (Super Juniors Tournament Finals) *****

10/4/97 Shinjiro Otani & Koji Kanemoto vs. Kendo Ka Shin & Jushin Liger ****

11/1/97 Koji Kanemoto vs. El Samurai ****

11/5/97 Shinjiro Otani, Koji Kanemoto & Tatsuhito Takaiwa vs. Jushin Liger, El Samurai & Kendo Ka Shin (Survival Series) ****1/2

11/29/97 Koji Kanemoto, Shinjiro Otani & Tatsuhito Takaiwa vs. Kendo Ka Shin & Jushin Liger & El Samurai ****1/4

12/5/97 El Samurai, Jushin Thunder Liger & Kendo Kashin vs. Koji Kanemoto, Shinjiro Otani & Tatsuhito Takaiwa ****

12/13/97 Jushin Liger, El Samurai & Kendo Kashin vs. Koji Kanemoto, Shinjiro Otani & Tatsuhito Takaiwa ****

2/4/98 Jushin Liger, El Samurai, & Kendo Kashin vs. Koji Kanemoto, Shinjiro Otani, & Tatsuhito **** 1/4

2/8/98 Koji Kanemoto vs. Jushin Liger **** 1/4

2/15/98 Jushin Liger, El Samurai, & Kendo Kashin vs. Kojo Kanemoto, Shinjiro Otani, & Tatsuhito *** 3/4

3/6/98 - Jushin Liger & Dr. Wagner Jr. vs. Koji Kanemoto & Shinjiro Otani **** 

1/12/02 Minoru Tanaka & El Samurai vs. Koji Kanemoto & AKIRA "**** range"

7/6/02 Jushin Liger & Minoru Tanaka vs. Koji Kanemoto & AKIRA ****1/4

1/26/03 Yoshinobu Kanemaru & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Jushin Liger & Koji Kanemoto ****1/4

3/22/03 Jushin Liger & Koji Kanemoto vs. The Heat & AKIRA ****1/4

4/5/03 Koji Kanemoto vs. AKIRA ****1/4

5/2/03 Jushin Liger & Koji Kanemoto vs. The Heat & Tiger Mask ****

6/21/03 Jushin Liger & Koji Kanemoto vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Kotaro Suzuki "a minimum ****1/4"

6/28/03 Masahito Kakihara vs. Koji Kanemoto "probably **** or better"

3/28/2004 Koji Kanemoto vs. Heat *** 3/4

5/3/04 American Dragon, Ultimo Dragon & Koji Kanemoto vs. Heat, Tiger Mask & Naomichi Marufuji ****

8/8/04 Koji Kanemoto vs. Osamu Nishimura *** 3/4 (G1 Climax '04 - Day 2)

8/27/11 AJPW/NJPW/NOAH ALL Together: **** 1/4


Unfortunately, archived online access to Meltzer's ratings seemed to have stopped once Kanemoto transitioned to his more current character. Or maybe Meltzer stopped reviewing Japanese matches as much, which I've heard was & is the case.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kanemoto vs Nishimura from 2004 sounds like something I'd need to see. Nishimura is one of those Puro dudes who's dipped his toes in bigger areas, but never is remembered. _(or hell, it sure feels that way)_ I've generally liked what I've seen from him.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Bruce is right;

8/8/04 Koji Kanemoto vs. Osamu Nishimura *** 3/4 (G1 Climax '04 - Day 2)

this is the match I saw (I went to go find the write-up...turns out I never did one)***. Honestly don't remember Kanemoto/Nagata being from 06; thought it was like 01 or 02. Might've been thinking of Nishimura/Nagata from 01, which is really great.*** Kanemoto/Nagata is a blur if I've seen it.

Def seen some Kanemoto NOAH v. NJ tags from 02-03. I was going to mention the best one but it doesn't even involve him.

***= found that though



Spoiler: ghj



Yuji Nagata v. Osamu Nishimura (NJPW 9/16/01)
Turns out I was wrong when I said Liger/Inoue was the best New Japan match of 2001, because this completely ruled. They get twenty minutes to work; near half of that is spent on the mat, and Nishimura on the mat = automatic greatness. He was pretty much born multiple decades too late. He works like a 70s wrestler, even LOOKS like a 70s wrestler (I see a slight Ricky Steamboat resemblance), and hell, the first couple of times I saw him I thought he was an old guy who’d actually been wrestling since the 70s. He’s awesome as shit on the mat, and carries Nagata to some really cool spots. Nagata does OK and he had some eat shit of his own like blocking a legbar by putting his hands between Nishimura’s elbow, but Nishimura is on a completely different level. When Nagata has an armbar he wobble his shoulders to try to put his arm in the position that Nagata actually has is it, so he can kind of ‘drive into the skid’ and not feel as much pain. And holy shit, the man has a beautiful bridge. Nagata decides to switch a headlock to a test of strength and you get a front-view of Nishimura bridging, and it looks so perfect. He even GROGEOUSLY bridges out of an armbar, then goes to corner and holds his arm. Nagata eventually gets Nishimura’s number and Nish rolls to the outside. Nagata decides if he can’t hang with Nishimura on the mat for much longer– then he’ll start kicking when Nish gets back into the ring. He gets Nishimura into a headlock as a fake out (or entrapment, or both) before immediately kneeing him multiple times on the top of the noggin. When Nishimura musters enough to get upright, Nagata starts stiffly kicking the shit out of him. Nish tries to get back to the mat one way or another, and there’s an awesome, awesome sleeper spot, but Nagata is adamant to keep this kick-based. Nishimura decides to comply, but his kicks aren’t as good as Nagata’s. If he can’t kick as hard as Nagata, he’ll kick smarter, by kicking Nagata in exactly the same spot of the leg every time, to set him up for a hold. Nagata probably realised what he was doing and actually starts now kicking Nishimura in the same damn spot of *Nishimura’s* leg, so he can get the Nagata Lock on. Nishimura survives that (and the audience got on the Nishimura train pretty quickly), and tries all sorts of old-school holds to get the match done – figure four, Funk spinning toe hold, Inoki octopus, and he busts out what’s probably his #1 move (if he were to have a move really labelled a “finisher”, it’s that, I guess) in the abdominal stretch. Nothing works and the ref stops the match during a Nagata Lock II, but he did clear damage to Nagata’s leg, and it could have won him the match. AND WHAT A MATCH IT WAS. Nishimura is one of the best wrestlers of the decade. I am so pumped to watch that Nishimura/Takayama match again and I think I will today. The Nishimura train is pretty vacant, people, and everyone is welcome aboard.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

If someone has Kanemoto vs. Black Tiger from June of '95, then you should definitely send it to LilOlMe. I scoured the webs and could only find the JIP version, but the full match is pretty damn good. Only have it on a disc, myself.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Yeah, there's quite a few must-see matches that aren't on there (in bold = SUPER must-see):

*vs. Dr. Wagner Jr, BOSJ '98 final, 6/3/98

w/ Dr. Wagner Jr vs. Shinjiro Ohtani & Tatsuhito Takaiwa, IWGP Junior Tag Title creation tournament final, 8/8/98

w/ Minoru Tanaka vs. Ohtani & Takaiwa, IWGP Junior Tag Titles, 10/11/99

w/ Minoru Tanaka vs. Ohtani & Takaiwa, IWGP Junior Tag Titles, 6/25/00

w/ Minoru Tanaka vs. Jushin Liger & Shinya (now Togi) Makabe, IWGP Junior Tag Titles, 9/12/00*

w/ Minoru Tanaka vs. Dr. Wagner Jr & Silver King, IWGP Junior Tag Titles, 2/3/01

*vs. Makoto Hashi, IWGP Junior Title, 8/29/02*

vs. Tiger Mask IV, IWGP Junior Title, 9/22/02

*vs. Bas Ruten, IWGP Junior Title, 10/26/02*

w/ Ultimo Dragon & Bryan Danielson vs. Heat, Tiger Mask IV, & Naomichi Marufuji, 5/3/04

vs. Osamu Nishimura, G1 Climax, 8/8/04

*w/ Wataru Inoue vs. Jado & Gedo, IWGP Junior Tag Titles, 3/4/05

vs. Yuji Nagata, G1 Climax, 8/12/06

vs. Satoshi Kojima, G1 Climax, 8/13/06*

vs. Masato Tanaka, Zero-1 Title, 4/13/08

*vs. Fujita "Jr" Hayato, Super J Cup, 12/22/09

vs. Fujita "Jr" Hayato, BOSJ '10, 5/30/10*

w/ Tiger Mask IV vs. Ricky Marvin & Taiji Ishimori, GHC Junior Tag Titles, 8/22/10 (NOAH)

w/ Yuji Nagata vs. Go Shiozaki & Atsushi Aoki, 10/11/10

w/ Tiger Mask IV vs. KENTA & Atsushi Aoki, GHC Junior Tag Titles, 10/23/10 (NOAH)

w/ Tiger Mask IV vs. Naomichi Marufuji & Atsushi Aoki, GHC Junior Tag Titles, 12/24/10 (NOAH)

*vs. Fujita "Jr" Hayato, BOSJ '11, 5/26/11

w/ Minoru Tanaka vs. Kaz Hayashi & Shuji Kondo, All Asia Tag Titles, 1/3/13 (All Japan)

w/ Minoru Tanaka vs. Hiroshi Yamato & Hikaru Sato, All Asia Tag Titles, 1/26/13 (All Japan)*

w/ Minoru Tanaka vs. Hiroshi Yamato & Hikaru Sato, All Asia Tag Titles, 2/10/13 (All Japan)

*w/ Minoru Tanaka vs. Kotaro Suzuki & Atsushi Aoki, All Asia Tag Titles, 3/17/13 (All Japan)*

Most available on ditch's sites; the rest I'm sure can be located.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> If someone has Kanemoto vs. Black Tiger from June of '95, then you should definitely send it to LilOlMe. I scoured the webs and could only find the JIP version, but the full match is pretty damn good. Only have it on a disc, myself.


Ill upload the match when i can. I need to watch more of Eddie in Japan TBH.



LilOlMe said:


> @The Rabid Wolverine, you mentioned that you're trying to watch all of Meltzer's ***** matches. Did you ever see:
> 
> If so, what did you think about it? Don't give away the result, though, please.


Well i can safely say it's one of my most favorite NJ matches. Pace just quickens as the match goes on, some great spots. For sure my sort of match.

@Yeah 1993 Could you recommend some Yoko/Owen tags?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I won't steal Jheri's thunder, but I know which Owen/Yokozuna match he'll list. :evil

I might want to watch the first two IYH PPVs. The first one is actually a p. good show.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Do what I did a while back and go through all the early IYH shows and just watch select matches. There are a TON of super fun gems on the shows, even if they took place during a time when WWF wasn't doing so well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's how I feel about 1995/1996 as a whole. Despite it's less than stellar promotional success, it has a nice chunk of quality matches that most don't tend to recall. For one I really liked Razor vs Jarrett/Roadie from the first IYH when I saw it a few years ago. Owen & Bulldog vs Smoking Gunns from Mind Games is a lot of fun too. Ohhhh Mankind vs Henry Godwinn from International Incident. A stiff corker, that was. 

Convinced the biggest gem is The Undertaker vs Goldust Final Curtain match, though. It's GREAT.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Convinced the biggest gem is The Undertaker vs Goldust Final Curtain match, though. It's GREAT.


:lmao

Stop having horrible opinions please .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm legitimately curious to read a review from you on why you dislike it. Boiler Room Brawl I can "get". This one, I miss it.

Then again you love Backlash 2002 vs Austin & WM 27 vs Triple H. LOST CAUSE.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I'm legitimately curious to read a review from you on why you dislike it. Boiler Room Brawl I can "get". This one, I miss it.
> 
> Then again you love Backlash 2002 vs Austin & WM 27 vs Triple H. LOST CAUSE.


If you are a fan of horror movies, action movies, Foley and/or Taker, on paper you should love the Boiler Room Brawl. Unfortunately very few people seem to see the genius and incredible skill involved in creating that match. I mean, these two guys had a fight that lasts 10x longer than the average action movie fight, with zero choreography, no ability to stop the scene or cut, and they just went full bore guns blazing with the physicality for like 13 minutes in a dark, dingy, boiler room with no crowd. Not to mention, my favorite part of the match isn't any of that stuff, it's Undertaker walking into the dark, murky boiler room with Mankind hiding somewhere in the shadows, it's exactly like watching a horror movie and seeing someone walk down into a dark basement not know what's about to happen. Love love love that match. Michael Hayes was there for the filming of it and he said it was one of the most brutal things he's ever witnessed.

The only aspect I'd change about it is I would have had JR and Vince actually call the match, as the lack of commentary kinda hurts it just a tad. Otherwise barbaric spectacle is probably the best term I'd use to describe it. I don't know if any two wrestlers ever could have pulled that exact match off better than these two did.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I did put together a 'Best of WWF IYH' list together a while back:

Bret Hart vs Hakushi - WWF In Your House 1
Shawn Michaels vs Jeff Jarrett - WWF In Your House 2
Yokozuna & Owen Hart vs Lex Luger & British Bulldog - WWF In Your House 2
Bret Hart vs Jean Pierre Lafitte - WWF: In Your House 3

Diesel & Shawn Michaels & Yokozuna & Owen Hart (Intercontinental/WWF/Tag Team Championship) - WWF In Your House 3
Dean Douglas vs Razor Ramon (WWF Intercontinental Championship) - WWF In Your House 4
Bret Hart vs British Bulldog (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 5
Razor Ramon & Marty Jannetty vs Sycho Sid & 123 Kid - WWF In Your House 5

Shawn Michaels vs Owen Hart - WWF In Your House 6
Bret Hart vs Diesel (WWF Championship - Steel Cage) - WWF In Your House 6
Shawn Michaels vs Diesel (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 7: Good Friends, Better Enemies

Vader vs Razor Ramon - WWF: In Your House 7: Good Friends, Better Enemies
Shawn Michaels vs British Bulldog (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 8: Beware Of Dog
Steve Austin vs Savio Vega (Carribean Strap Match) - WWF In Your House 8: Beware Of Dog

Vader, British Bulldog & Owen Hart vs Shawn Michaels, Ahmed Johnson & Sycho Sid - WWF: In Your House 9: International Incident
Shawn Michaels vs Mankind - WWF In Your House 10: Mindgames

The Undertaker vs Goldust (Final Curtain Match) - WWF In Your House 10: Mindgames 
The Undertaker vs Mankind - WWF In Your House 11: Buried Alive
Sycho Sid vs Vader - WWF In Your House 11: Buried Alive
Sycho Sid vs Bret Hart (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 12: It's Time

Bret Hart vs Vader vs The Undertaker vs Steve Austin (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 13: Final Four
Doug Furnas & Phil Lafon vs Owen Hart & British Bulldog (WWF Tag Team Championship) - WWF In Your House 13: Final Four
Bret Hart vs Steve Austin - WWF In Your House 14: Revenge Of The Taker

The Undertaker vs Mankind (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 14: Revenge Of The Taker
Vader vs Ken Shamrock (No Holds Barred) - WWF In Your House 15: A Cold Day In Hell
Bret Hart, Owen Hart, Jim Neidhart, British Bulldog & Brian Pillman vs Steve Austin, Ken Shamrock, Goldust & Legion Of Doom - WWF In Your House 16: Canadian Stampede

The Undertaker vs Vader (WWF Championship) - WWF: In Your House 16: Canadian Stampede
The Great Sasuke vs Taka Michinoku - WWF In Your House 16: Canadian Stampede
Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker - WWF In Your House 17: Ground Zero
Bret Hart vs The Patriot - WWF In Your House 17: Ground Zero

Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker (Hell In A Cell) - WWF In Your House 18: Badd Blood
Bret Hart & British Bulldog vs The Patriot & Vader (Flag Match) - WWF In Your House 18: Badd Blood
Brian Christopher vs Taka Michinoku (WWF Light Heavyweight Championship) - WWF In Your House 19: Degeneration X

Shawn Michaels vs Ken Shamrock (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 19: Degeneration X
Steve Austin, Owen Hart, Cactus Jack and Chainsaw Charlie Vs Triple H, Road Dogg, Billy Gunn and "mystery partner" - WWF In Your House 20: No Way Out 
Vader vs Kane - WWF In Your House 20: No Way Out

Kane vs The Undertaker (Inferno Match) - WWF In Your House 21: Unforgiven
Steve Austin vs Dude Love (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 21: Unforgiven

Steve Austin vs Dude Love (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 22: Over The Edge
Kane & Mankind vs The Undertaker & Steve Austin (WWF Tag Team Championship) - WWF In Your House 23: Fully Loaded

The Rock vs Triple H (WWF Intercontinental Championship - 2/3 Falls) - WWF In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
Ken Shamrock vs The Rock vs Mankind (Cage Match) - WWF In Your House 24: Breakdown

Steve Austin vs Kane vs The Undertaker (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 24: Breakdown
Ken Shamrock vs Mankind (WWF Intercontinental Championship) - WWF In Your House 25: Judgment Day
Kane vs The Undertaker (WWF Championship match) - WWF In Your House 25: Judgment Day

Steve Austin vs The Undertaker (Buried Alive Match) - WWF In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
Steve Austin vs Mr.McMahon (Cage Match) - WWF In Your House 27: St. Valentine's Day Massacre
Mankind vs The Rock (WWF Championship - Last man Standing) - WWF In Your House 27: St. Valentine's Day Massacre

Steve Austin vs The Rock (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 28: Backlash
Ken Shamrock vs The Undertaker - WWF In Your House 28: Backlash
Mankind vs The Big Show (Boiler Room Brawl) - WWF In Your House 28: Backlash


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

ive been really sick lately, like bed ridden, damn flu the weather here has been way colder than usual, i thought id blaze up now im just in a comfortable tired place but relaxed

about to watch these in order:

cm punk vs daniel byran - over the limit 2012
the shield vs cm punk and daniel byran - manchester 2013
undertaker vs the rock vs kurt angle - vengeance 2002
kurt angle vs brock lesnar - wrestlemania 19

:trips8 :trips9


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Not sure of the details but Tyson Kidd apparently suffered some kind of spinal cord or back injury. Idk, but here's the lineup for that July 4th Network special from Tokyo:

* Lucha Dragons vs. Los Matadores
* Divas Title Match: Nikki Bella vs. Paige vs. Naomi
* *Tag Team Title Match:* New Day vs. Tyson Kidd & Cesaro
* Chris Jericho vs. Neville
* Brock Lesnar vs. Kofi Kingston
* John Cena & Dolph Ziggler vs. Kane & King Barrett
* *NXT Title Match:* Champion Kevin Owens vs. Finn Balor


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

KENNY said:


> :trips9


This meme always drives me crazy :lol :lol :lol 

What picture is this? So fucking hilarious.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Not sure of the details but Tyson Kidd apparently suffered some kind of spinal cord or back injury. Idk, but here's the lineup for that July 4th Network special from Tokyo:
> 
> * Lucha Dragons vs. Los Matadores
> * Divas Title Match: Nikki Bella vs. Paige vs. Naomi
> ...


Im sure Lesnar demanded someone to just squash lol, rather than have a 'competitive' match. Shame, but hey Brock is there at least.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Holy crap that July 4 special has a stacked card.

Count me on the side of Cal when it comes to the Boiler Room Brawl. I do agree that it was a very unique and innovative match with a hint of genius ideas from everyone involved. The problem though is that the actual match was so boring. That match could have gone on for ten minutes and nothing of value would have been lost.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Just read a report that said Kidd was gonna be out several months with a neck injury. Man, that guy really can't catch a break from the injury bug.  Really sucks for such a talented guy and now I have no idea what they're gonna do with Cesaro. I'd rather they just put him on Superstars and Main Event to wrestle 15 minute matches than give some other ridiculous assignment where he's jobbing to New Day or some other shithead like Miz or something. 

I'm not sure how much of that Tokyo show will be shown on the network, but yeah the card looks pretty fuckin awesome. Even if they just do Jericho/Neville, Brock/Kofi, and Owens/Balor as part of an hour special, I'd be happy with it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Davey Richards vs Shingo (Dragon Gate USA Open the Untouchable Gate 2009)*

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/indy-...pen-untouchable-gate-2009-a.html#post49339121

*Sasha Banks vs Becky Lynch (NXT Unstoppable)*

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wwe-w...becky-lynch-nxt-unstoppable.html#post49341001

Couple of uploads someone may want.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Having missed 2003 in real time and only having checked out the most pimped of the pimped since regaining interest a few years ago, I hadn't seen the Eddie/Tajiri combo in action until yesterday thanks to the recs. _Love_ the first two SmackDown matches with Team Angle; will check out the third one later today. Definitely worthy of a spot on my "best throw-together tag teams" list -- and it's nice to be reminded, after the way their ROH run, turned into repetitive shlock before petering out in a blaze of weirdness and disinterest, Shelton and Charlie were a pretty damn great duo themselves.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

That SHINGO/Richards match was tons of fun.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

You know what MITB Ladder match is really great? The Smackdown one from 2010 where it's Big Show vs. the world. A bunch of hilarious moments and complete unpredictability behind who would win. It will ALWAYS work when you actually portray Big Show as a dominate giant who needs multiple people to take him out and it was even better that they had Kane in there to be another giant as well. McIntyre getting put through the announce table and then crawling back up into the ring several minutes later to nothing but boos as it looks like he's gonna win was pretty great too. Deserves every bit of ****.

Between that one, the Smackdown 2011 one with Bryan winning, the 2013 contest where Sandow fucks over Cody, and last year's GREAT spectacle with Ambrose getting screwed, this company actually has a pretty good track record with MITB matches on the same-name PPV. 2012 was the only down year imo.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> You know what MITB Ladder match is really great? The Smackdown one from 2010 where it's Big Show vs. the world. A bunch of hilarious moments and complete unpredictability behind who would win. It will ALWAYS work when you actually portray Big Show as a dominate giant who needs multiple people to take him out and it was even better that they had Kane in there to be another giant as well. McIntyre getting put through the announce table and then crawling back up into the ring several minutes later to nothing but boos as it looks like he's gonna win was pretty great too. Deserves every bit of ****.
> 
> Between that one, the Smackdown 2011 one with Bryan winning, the 2013 contest where Sandow fucks over Cody, and last year's GREAT spectacle with Ambrose getting screwed, this company actually has a pretty good track record with MITB matches on the same-name PPV. 2012 was the only down year imo.


Finally someone else agrees with me on SD MITB 2010. I remember throwing 5 stars at it at the time and calling it the GOAT MITB. Looking back, yeah, of course I overreacted and overrated it but holy shit it's probably one of the most compelling and psychologically sound MITB. Seriously, what other MITB match had as much psychology as that one?

I really want to check out that Shingo/Richards match but I'm scared. Davey is a mixed bag for me. I don't hate his work as I once did but his matches are so damn polarizing. Davey is such a technically sound wrestler that the first 5-10 minutes of his matches are just a thing of beauty. Then he starts throwing kicks and strikes....


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Finally someone else agrees with me on SD MITB 2010. I remember throwing 5 stars at it at the time and calling it the GOAT MITB. Looking back, yeah, of course I overreacted and overrated it but holy shit it's probably one of the most compelling and psychologically sound MITB. Seriously, what other MITB match had as much psychology as that one?
> 
> I really want to check out that Shingo/Richards match but I'm scared. Davey is a mixed bag for me. I don't hate his work as I once did but his matches are so damn polarizing.* Davey is such a technically sound wrestler that the first 5-10 minutes of his matches are just a thing of beauty. Then he starts throwing kicks and strikes....*


There really isn't many that I can think of outside of the first one (Mania 21 with Benoit's arm). It was such a nice change of pace from your usual crazy balls out spotfest... not that I mind those either. 

Boy are you right on that last sentence. He and Chris Hero could be great wrestlers or just the dirt fucking worst for me. Davey moreso but they still have all the tools and go a completely different direction at times.

BTW, you should be fine with that Davey vs. SHINGO match. I actually haven't seen it (surprisingly) but it's from 2009 and 2009 Davey is totally different than the current Davey. Actually I'm willing to wager several people on this forum would've said he was considered one of the BITW at that time period.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> Finally someone else agrees with me on SD MITB 2010. I remember throwing 5 stars at it at the time and calling it the GOAT MITB. Looking back, yeah, of course I overreacted and overrated it but holy shit it's probably one of the most compelling and psychologically sound MITB. Seriously, what other MITB match had as much psychology as that one?
> 
> I really want to check out that Shingo/Richards match but I'm scared. Davey is a mixed bag for me. I don't hate his work as I once did but his matches are so damn polarizing. Davey is such a technically sound wrestler that the first 5-10 minutes of his matches are just a thing of beauty. Then he starts throwing kicks and strikes....


I'm not sure a matches psychology is a quantifiable factor. Either the match has good psychology or it doesn't, I don't know if you can say between 2 matches that have good psychology that one has _more_ per say. Maybe you were referring to the match having multiple layers of story telling? In that case it makes sense, I haven't seen that MitB match but matches like Mankind/HBK and Cena/Punk MitB immediately come to mind as matches that have several individual stories running throughout the same match.

Either way, I'm just not a fan of MitB or multi man ladder matches in general. Edge and Christian, the Dudleys, and the Hardy's already took that gimmick to the limit back in 2000-2001, nothing else creative or inspiring has been done since then. Same with MitB matches, the 1st one at WM 21 is the best one because it was so new and innovative, nothing new has been done since. I wish WWE would just retire ladders and tables for like a minimum of 2-3 years. Remember the halcyon days where 3 years passed between Summerslam 1995 and Summerslam 1998 and there wasn't a single ladder match to be seen? So it was actually kind of a big deal when Rock and Hunter settled their score with a ladder? I just don't care about ladder matches anymore, and what's worse is I see matches like Harper/Ziggler where, that was a legitimate awesome match but that was also a completely retarded match. I don't want to feel guilty watching a match. 

That's why I won't watch ultraviolent/death matches. Seeing guys be stiff and physical with each other and possibly blading or bleeding hardway is one thing, those bumps and bruises will heel in a week or so. What Ziggler and Harper did could have put them on the shelf for a year or possibly cut their career short. I understand why they did it, they are so under booked in comparison with their talent level and they went out to show the people in the back just as much as they were showing the crowd how much they cared about being great. But it's not necessary. Ziggler cutting a promo that gives fans the chills or Harper finding a great way to connect with the fans would benefit their status 10x more than nearly committing suicide via ladder match.

I'm kind of with Austin on this one. They need to just ban certain moves and certain match types for a year or more and then when they bring them back book them as strong as possible.

It's gotten to the point that I don't care about any single kind of gimmick match, that shouldn't be possible. Right now I'd much prefer to see 2 guys just have a standard wrestling match. Maybe I'm alone there though.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think I have all but one MITB match (RAW 2012) at or above four stars. Best gimmick match. Now what they do afterwards with the MITB holder is another concern...


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

It's Davey Richards, it's SHINGO...You know there will be stiff strikes.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

A MITB that never is talked about and that actually delivered was RAW MITB All-Stars


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Davey/Shingo is the best match of either guy's career, IMO. They keep the story simple -- Davey takes apart powerlifter Shingo's arm, Shingo takes apart kick-thrower Davey's leg, both guys are mega-badasses -- and while it's full of FIGHTING SPIRIT and badassery, nobody gets a chance to no-sell to an annoying degree because nobody lets up on his attack. I had it at ***** at the time, when Davey was legit one of the BITW, and called it the #2 match of '09, just barely being beaten out by Taker/Michaels at Mania 25. And it holds up.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I'm not sure a matches psychology is a quantifiable factor. Either the match has good psychology or it doesn't, I don't know if you can say between 2 matches that have good psychology that one has _more_ per say. Maybe you were referring to the match having multiple layers of story telling? In that case it makes sense, I haven't seen that MitB match but matches like Mankind/HBK and Cena/Punk MitB immediately come to mind as matches that have several individual stories running throughout the same match.


I'm not really sure what you thought you read in his first paragraph.  He was just asking what MITB matches have had more psychology involved. 

I do however see your point in the rest of your post. The multi-man ladder matches have been done to death but something about them still gets me excited every year. Maybe it's the excitement of thinking they're gonna do something new and crazy we haven't seen before? Who knows. It seems like they constantly entertain me on a regular basis so I'll still live with it.

Now Hell in a Cell matches and just basic one-on-one ladder matches are a different story. The TLC and HIAC gimmick PPVs need to go, but I think we've all said that before.



Skins said:


> A MITB that never is talked about and that actually delivered was RAW MITB All-Stars


That's a good one that indeed delivered, but I still think the opener was better. Awesome moment for a bloody faced Cody Rhodes (even though he didn't win).


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

*WWF Wrestlemania II
(April 7, 1986)*

Paul Orndorff vs The Magnificent Muraco 1/2*

*WWF Intercontinental Heavyweight Championship*
Randy Savage (c) vs George Steele *

Jake Roberts vs George Wells 1/2*

Boxing Match
Mr.T vs Roddy Piper DUD

*WWF Women's Championship*
The Fabulous Moolah (c) vs Velvet McIntyre 1/4*

Flag Match
Nikolai Volkoff vs Corporal Kirchner 1/4*

WWF vs NFL 20 Man Battle Royal **

*WWF World Tag Team Championship*
The Dream Team (Greg Valentine & Brutus Beefcake) (c) vs The British Bulldogs (Davey Boy Smith & Dynamite Kid) ***

Ricky Steamboat vs Hercules Hernandez *3/4

Uncle Elmer vs Adrian Adonis *

The Junkyard Dog & Tito Santana vs Terry Funk & Hoss Funk **

*WWF World Heavyweight Championship - Steel Cage Match*
Hulk Hogan (c) vs King Kong Bundy *** 

Overall Rating: 4.25


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

wow, thats a long card.


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

KENNY said:


> wow, thats a long card.


Yup, The show was performed in 3 different places simultaneously:

Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum in Uniondale, New York
Rosemont Horizon in Rosemont, Illinois
Los Angeles Memorial Sports Arena in Los Angeles, California

but several matches at that time lasted a few minutes.

The Main Event is very underrated, that was a really good steel cage match, much better than currently steel cage matches


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> If you are a fan of horror movies, action movies, Foley and/or Taker, on paper you should love the Boiler Room Brawl. Unfortunately very few people seem to see the genius and incredible skill involved in creating that match. I mean, these two guys had a fight that lasts 10x longer than the average action movie fight, with zero choreography, no ability to stop the scene or cut, and they just went full bore guns blazing with the physicality for like 13 minutes in a dark, dingy, boiler room with no crowd. Not to mention, my favorite part of the match isn't any of that stuff, it's Undertaker walking into the dark, murky boiler room with Mankind hiding somewhere in the shadows, it's exactly like watching a horror movie and seeing someone walk down into a dark basement not know what's about to happen. Love love love that match. Michael Hayes was there for the filming of it and he said it was one of the most brutal things he's ever witnessed.
> 
> The only aspect I'd change about it is I would have had JR and Vince actually call the match, as the lack of commentary kinda hurts it just a tad. Otherwise barbaric spectacle is probably the best term I'd use to describe it. I don't know if any two wrestlers ever could have pulled that exact match off better than these two did.


I love it too. But I only brought it up as the usual banter between myself & Cal on the selective Undertaker matches we actually don't care for. They're usually different too. Minus Taker vs Edge TLC. We both find common ground w/that nonsense.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Between that one, the Smackdown 2011 one with Bryan winning, the 2013 contest where Sandow fucks over Cody, and last year's GREAT spectacle with Ambrose getting screwed, this company actually has a pretty good track record with MITB matches on the same-name PPV. 2012 was the only down year imo.


Is that you saying the moment of Ambrose climbing up and then getting screwed worked or the entire match? b/c the ladder matches last year were a dreadful excuse for anything coherent or watchable. They still weren't even the two most offensive ladder matches of the year, which is astounding. But they were bad. I expect more of the same from the hodgepodge crew lined up in a few weeks. Shame guys like Reigns & Sheamus are wasted in it. A match on SD tonight is a decent way to make me live w/the decision.

I like the idea of the gimmick WAY more than the perception of the matches these days. The fad died out for me long ago.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> Is that you saying the moment of Ambrose climbing up and then getting screwed worked or the entire match? b/c the ladder matches last year were a dreadful excuse for anything coherent or watchable. They still weren't even the two most offensive ladder matches of the year, which is astounding. But they were bad. I expect more of the same from the hodgepodge crew lined up in a few weeks. Shame guys like Reigns & Sheamus are wasted in it. A match on SD tonight is a decent way to make me live w/the decision.
> 
> I like the idea of the gimmick WAY more than the perception of the matches these days. The fad died out for me long ago.


Both actually. I loved that MITB match last year and the finish (while making me hate Kane more than usual) totally worked there and for the long run. That's the only one I disagree on though. That main event was horrid and Ziggler/Harper later in the year was rather difficult to watch. I'm not even sure if Ambrose/Wyatt counts either but that was just a TLC match with nothing at stake. 

Can't say I'm expecting much out of this year's match. They've built the ENTIRE match around Roman which makes it ridiculous to wonder why they're even having the damn thing. Either Reigns is winning or Reigns is getting screwed. I made a joke to my friends last night saying that Kane will win the briefcase so he can turn face and cash in on Rollins to end the night as WWE Champion. :lol How fucking hilarious would that be? Then the Battleground main event is Lesnar vs. Kane vs. Rollins or something.

I'm hoping Rollins beats Ambrose without any outside help because I think he REALLY needs the decisive victory to regain some momentum and/or credibility after the EC debacle. I still can't get over the picture of him standing there and watching Ambrose walk away with his title while Reigns is laughing away after he lost the match while being down for a good 7 count. :no

BTW Cody, what were your thoughts on the last NXT special? Owens/Zayn specifically because I know you liked the women's match. I ask because you and I seemed to be the only ones who shared the same viewpoints on their first match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I know it was the arbitrary nature of the MITB match last year that really did me in. Anything that wasn't Rollins vs Ambrose related I found to be bad, random fluff for the stip, but they kind of had to do the match after the Danielson injury. So, that's how it goes. 

Not surprised about the Reigns focus as far as this year's match is concerned. b/c well, look at how abrupt & lack of effort they were w/creating the field for the match. Guys like Dolph & Kofi in it w/o any reason to be. Sheamus getting defeated clean by Ryback for the Intercontinental championship only to be announced IMMEDIATELY following, w/Ryback not in the match himself. Orton in there for name value, but no sense of importance even though they should imply b/c he is a big name. On the decline or not. Neville is cool. He's the yearly "fresh face" to put on a showing. Was Barrett put in this too? Gosh, I can't believe that. Random body to fill it out I guess.

I loved Zayn vs Owens II. Thought the heated sprint was a great sense of booking around Zayn's injury & it made all the sense in the world for it to be done that way. Zayn looked intense & hot for the majority, then the one mistake took him out. It kept both strong in their respected areas; no issue w/the non-finish either. Owens had a different focus for what he wanted to do, Joe stopped him. It was a great ending to the show. Great is the constant I am (possibly) overusing here. It fits. Absolutely awful Zayn has to be injured, but hey, positive is this angle is still open for a victory whenever he's able to return. Championship or not. I'd prefer him to win the strap, although getting a big vindicated W either way will suffice. Zayn is probably way too main roster bound - a la Owens - to expect them to keep the gold in the mix for "x" amount of months until he's cleared.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

*Random Ratings~! (of matches i've watched these past few days)*


World Heavyweight Title Elimination Chamber Match - *WWE New Year's Revolution 2005*

Batista vs. Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho vs. Edge vs. Randy Orton vs. Triple H - ******

*Unforgiven 2005*
*Steel Cage Match *
Edge (w/Lita) vs. Matt Hardy - Watched this again. Had it **** last time, **** 1/2 now. What a match.

*No Way Out 2006*

Kurt Angle (c) vs. The Undertaker - **** 1/2 (wonderful match)

*Unforgiven 2006*

D-Generation X (Shawn Michaels & Triple H) vs. Shane McMahon, The Big Show & Vince McMahon - *** 1/4

Lita (c) vs. Trish Stratus - ** 3/4

*WWE Title TLC match*

Edge (c) vs. John Cena - **** 1/4

*WCW Souled Out 2000*

Buff Bagwell vs. Diamond Dallas Page (Lsst Man Standing) - *** (this surprised me)

*Fully Loaded 2000*

Chris Jericho vs. Triple H (w/Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley) - Last Man Standing (one of my personal favourites) - **** 1/2
The Rock (c) vs. Chris Benoit (w/Shane McMahon) - DQ Leads To Title Change Match - **** 1/4

*Starrcade '83*
*Dog Collar Match *
Greg Valentine vs. Roddy Piper - *** 3/4 (LOVED it)

*WCW WrestleWar 1991*

*War Games Match *
Flyin' Brian, Sting & The Steiner Brothers (Rick Steiner & Scott Steiner) vs. Larry Zbyszko & The Four Horsemen (Barry Windham, Ric Flair & Sid Vicious) (w/Arn Anderson) - **** 1/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Some stellar matches there, kenneh. (Y) @ digging Piper vs Valentine.

The Steel Cage, Rock vs Benoit, & War Games though. More classics.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Obfuscation said:


> Some stellar matches there, kenneh. (Y) @ digging Piper vs Valentine.
> 
> The Steel Cage, Rock vs Benoit, & War Games though. More classics.


no love for Jericho/HHH last man standing?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm not very high on it, tbhayley.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Far, far far far too high on a certain TLC match there, Kenny .


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I liked it. 

Have these on a list I'm compiling to watch over the next couple of days.

*WCW*:

Steamboat/Shane Douglas vs Barry Windham/Flyin Brian Pillman (Starrcade 1992)
Benoit vs Too Cold Scorpio(Superbrawl 3)
Heavenly Bodies vs Rock N Roll Express (Superbrawl 3)
Cactus Jack vs Paul Orndoff (Falls Count Anywhere, Superbrawl 3)
Big Van Vader (w/Harley Race) (c) vs. Davey Boy Smith (Slamboree 1993)

*WWE (f)*:

New Hart Foundation vs Orient Express (Royal Rumble 1992)
Razor Ramon vs Bret Hart (King of the Ring 1993, first round)
Bret Hart vs Mr Perfect (semi finals, KOTR 1993)
Bret Hart vs Bam Bam Bigelow (final, KOTR 1993)

Any thoughts on these would be much appreciated. Spring Stampede 1994 (as a whole) looks enticing too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

KENNY said:


> I liked it.
> 
> Have these on a list I'm compiling to watch over the next couple of days.
> 
> ...


Steamboat/Shane Douglas vs Barry Windham/Flyin Brian Pillman (Starrcade 1992) - EXCELLENT
Benoit vs Too Cold Scorpio(Superbrawl 3) - GREAT (been years since I saw it though)
Heavenly Bodies vs Rock N Roll Express (Superbrawl 3) - DON'T REMEMBER IT
Cactus Jack vs Paul Orndoff (Falls Count Anywhere, Superbrawl 3) - GOOD
Big Van Vader (w/Harley Race) (c) vs. Davey Boy Smith (Slamboree 1993) - EXCELLENT (assuming it's the match I'm thinking of)

New Hart Foundation vs Orient Express (Royal Rumble 1992) - GOOD
Razor Ramon vs Bret Hart (King of the Ring 1993, first round) - GOOD
Bret Hart vs Mr Perfect (semi finals, KOTR 1993) - EXCELLENT
Bret Hart vs Bam Bam Bigelow (final, KOTR 1993) - GOOD


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Black Tiger (Eddy Guerrero) vs. Koji Kanemoto (NJ 6/25/95)*

x2ssqsn


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

First, I'm going to watch Brock vs Kurt - iron man match from smackdown 2003 :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> I know it was the arbitrary nature of the MITB match last year that really did me in. Anything that wasn't Rollins vs Ambrose related I found to be bad, random fluff for the stip, but they kind of had to do the match after the Danielson injury. So, that's how it goes.
> 
> Not surprised about the Reigns focus as far as this year's match is concerned. b/c well, look at how abrupt & lack of effort they were w/creating the field for the match. Guys like Dolph & Kofi in it w/o any reason to be. Sheamus getting defeated clean by Ryback for the Intercontinental championship only to be announced IMMEDIATELY following, w/Ryback not in the match himself. Orton in there for name value, but no sense of importance even though they should imply b/c he is a big name. On the decline or not. Neville is cool. He's the yearly "fresh face" to put on a showing. Was Barrett put in this too? Gosh, I can't believe that. Random body to fill it out I guess.
> 
> I loved Zayn vs Owens II. Thought the heated sprint was a great sense of booking around Zayn's injury & it made all the sense in the world for it to be done that way. Zayn looked intense & hot for the majority, then the one mistake took him out. It kept both strong in their respected areas; no issue w/the non-finish either. Owens had a different focus for what he wanted to do, Joe stopped him. It was a great ending to the show. Great is the constant I am (possibly) overusing here. It fits. Absolutely awful Zayn has to be injured, but hey, positive is this angle is still open for a victory whenever he's able to return. Championship or not. I'd prefer him to win the strap, although getting a big vindicated W either way will suffice. Zayn is probably way too main roster bound - a la Owens - to expect them to keep the gold in the mix for "x" amount of months until he's cleared.


Believe it or not, Barrett actually isn't in the match, which makes even less sense. Neither he or Wyatt have a spot in the match which is so hard to fathom. Wyatt actually BEATS Ryback on PPV, so they put the big guy in the elimination chamber match and have him win. Then Wyatt loses in jobber fashion to Reigns. Jesus lord. Poor Barrett wins King of the Ring and then Bryan gets hurt and he still never gets a one-on-one rematch for his Intercontinental Title. :lol

For Zayn/Owens II, I thought they were going absolutely in the right direction with Sami taking it to him at the opening bell. I think we can both agree that's what they should've done the first time that fucked the whole concept of it being such a "grudge" match to begin with. What bothered me so much about it (and this may just be me) was that Owens hits ONE move and the whole thing comes to a halt. No bell, no announcement, no conclusion to this evergoing feud, nothing. I know they're trying to build the pop up powerbomb as some deadly move from such a mean guy but come on. Unless you're a small dude or it's being delivered by a 7 footer I have a hard time taking it seriously as a finisher. Especially when he used it on the regular throughout the indies. I've seen countless dudes take it on the ring apron and it's difficult for me to change the perception of it, ya know? I was just aggravated that Zayn got kayfabe and/or real injured (I know it was real this time) yet again and they can't just end this storyline. He's a constant underdog in every match and it's an annoyance to me. I can't say I've enjoyed his booking in the slightest since he won the title. 

But yeah, the Joe stuff was great. Just wish it didn't have to happen at the expense of Sami while his buddy Kev is being pushed to the moon and back in such a short period of time. When he comes back, just put him on the main roster please. I'm not sure if I'll care at that point if he actually beats Owens and I certainly don't wanna see him lose again for no reason.



KENNY said:


> I liked it.
> 
> Have these on a list I'm compiling to watch over the next couple of days.
> 
> ...


Whenever I get a chance to put over that match, I absolutely do so. It's such an underrated classic imo. Bam Bam is totally dominant and Bret is one of the best underdogs of all time. Great, great match.


----------



## Hencheman_21 (Apr 11, 2014)

Another sign that time travel does exist. I have been watching/rewatching WM's and while watching WM6 I saw some kid doing the "you can't see me" lol. Actually he was just making kind of a thumbs up and shaking his hand. But if you watch it, it does kind of look like he's a Cena fan. It was before the mixed tag match when Dusty and Sapphire were making their entrance for those that want to check it out.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

KENNY said:


> Steamboat/Shane Douglas vs Barry Windham/Flyin Brian Pillman (Starrcade 1992)


Probably my favorite WCW tag match.



> Benoit vs Too Cold Scorpio(Superbrawl 3)


Great. 



> Cactus Jack vs Paul Orndoff (Falls Count Anywhere, Superbrawl 3)


Really good.



> Bret Hart vs Mr Perfect (semi finals, KOTR 1993)


Amazing.



> Bret Hart vs Bam Bam Bigelow (final, KOTR 1993)


Kind of boring for a good while, but by the end it's one of Bret's best underdog performances.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kenny watch Steamboat/Douglas vs Windham/Pillman first. It's one of the best WCW matches ever. One of the best tag team matches ever, too.

Although add Rockers vs Orient Express from Royal Rumble 1991 to your list. Needs to be seen.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Believe it or not, Barrett actually isn't in the match, which makes even less sense. Neither he or Wyatt have a spot in the match which is so hard to fathom. Wyatt actually BEATS Ryback on PPV, so they put the big guy in the elimination chamber match and have him win. Then Wyatt loses in jobber fashion to Reigns. Jesus lord. Poor Barrett wins King of the Ring and then Bryan gets hurt and he still never gets a one-on-one rematch for his Intercontinental Title. :lol
> 
> For Zayn/Owens II, I thought they were going absolutely in the right direction with Sami taking it to him at the opening bell. I think we can both agree that's what they should've done the first time that fucked the whole concept of it being such a "grudge" match to begin with. What bothered me so much about it (and this may just be me) was that Owens hits ONE move and the whole thing comes to a halt. No bell, no announcement, no conclusion to this evergoing feud, nothing. I know they're trying to build the pop up powerbomb as some deadly move from such a mean guy but come on. Unless you're a small dude or it's being delivered by a 7 footer I have a hard time taking it seriously as a finisher. Especially when he used it on the regular throughout the indies. I've seen countless dudes take it on the ring apron and it's difficult for me to change the perception of it, ya know? I was just aggravated that Zayn got kayfabe and/or real injured (I know it was real this time) yet again and they can't just end this storyline. He's a constant underdog in every match and it's an annoyance to me. I can't say I've enjoyed his booking in the slightest since he won the title.
> 
> But yeah, the Joe stuff was great. Just wish it didn't have to happen at the expense of Sami while his buddy Kev is being pushed to the moon and back in such a short period of time. When he comes back, just put him on the main roster please. I'm not sure if I'll care at that point if he actually beats Owens and I certainly don't wanna see him lose again for no reason.


Jeez, I'm way off w/this field. That sells it in the long run for me. It's no different than last year's match only w/o the good story in it; Reigns (akin to Rollins) is either so obviously winning or so obviously being screwed w/random other people involved b/c the match calls for it. I'm gonna be surprised if he does get the case. He's not the kind of babyface that would be seen to use it. Unless he goes Cena or RVD route where it actually is a match, opposed to "cash in".

Zayn was injured so I viewed the pop up powerbomb being an out and nothing more. I guess w/the way he was hurt he could produce offense but not take too much. So he took one move, played dead, and it worked. The injury no doubt made up for him getting "owned" by Owens yet again, more than I believe that's where the story took it. WWE has a knack for over indulging in the underdogs if they're great in the role. I look at Zayn having a similar path to that of Jeff Hardy or a even more modern Danielson. He'll take a million tries to get to the top before he finally does. b/c the ability to milk his wins out of the dire situations will always have the fans wanting to see it. Look at all three and how many times they've lost their big affairs. Yet they all retained their overness & it paid off whenever the succeeded. Now, I'm not advocating the booking of Zayn on the year entirely. But falling short to Owens at the start doesn't surprise me. I care too much about the program to where this halt via injury isn't even a drawback. He'll come back, I'll still care & hope he gets the W.

Pop up powerbomb matters in WWE. So, I have zero issues w/it being made as a mega threat. The reflection on the indies doesn't matter to me b/c Steen had the Package Piledriver in use. Plus, the occasional Steenalizer. Both are which will never be used in WWE, so a change was expected. It was worse when Zayn was hitting the yazuka kick when he first was w/NXT and people were kicking out. Glad they changed it and made that his finisher b/c even on the indies I thought that could be winning him matches. 

There's a widespread pool for where WWE can take the NXT Championship & all these guys at this point. Which I feel is generally a positive scenario. Zayn & KENTA get injured, well got Joe now to fill some space & Devitt in the mix too. May as well use Callihan to some extent - and they did - so I'm not too concerned w/their focus on the subject of the main event scene. Zayn is injured so theoretically it doesn't hurt to keep his story up in the air & have a new one flourish at the same time.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Guys, just had a convo w/ Cody about this, check it out HOJO https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od_UJH7cSY4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

HOJO's signature elbow may have been at its very best in that match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

@ hailsabin1990 because you changed your name again.

Man, we're so off base on the use of finishers in NXT. I think Zayn winning with the yakuza kick is weak as fuck. :lol It is what it is though. I didn't expect the package piledriver or top rope brainbuster but I didn't want these casual moves either. Oh well.

In regards to the PPV, I think the WWE has booked themselves into a corner with these matches. Who will we root for in the MITB match? Ziggler is the obvious babyface who most casuals will wanna see win (but he had his magical MITB moment already) and Neville is the new face to freshen the scene, but there's gotta be a literal 2% chance of him winning. Orton was gone for two or three weeks and they just randomly strolled him in to wrestle Sheamus like nothing happened. That was so weird. I love Sheamus but him winning would do nothing to really help himself or anyone else. Kofi can fuck off. So then we have Roman Reigns and Kane. I'll probably be more interested if Kane came out the victor rather than Reigns. :lol Wyatt needs to be in the damn match!

Then we have Ambrose vs. Rollins in the ladder match. Really, if Ambrose wins, where's the satisfaction here? He's been running around already in possession of the belt so why would I feel any better about it after he wins again? Rollins needs this win for sure.

Then we have Cena vs. Owens II. As much as I loved the first match and was genuinely SHOCKED by the result, what are _really_ the odds that Owens beats him clean again? Or even beats him in general. I think it's so incredibly obvious that Cena will get his win back here that all I can hope for is a match half as good as the first. I guess it's just one of those things where it was so surreal that you don't wanna see it happen again so quickly, ya know? Kinda like Lesnar/Cena at Summerslam and then they decided to do it again right at Night of Champions.

And then we have the current tag division. GAH, what a damn mess now that Kidd is injured. I've liked New Day's new gimmick and they've been getting great reactions, but if they keep the belts against PTP again then they HAVE to do it in sneaky heel fashion. No shitty ass finish like the EC match. But then where do you go from there? I doubt Harper & Rowan would get in the picture as heels, so... Lucha Dragons? They've given them a few wins but I'm not even sure if they're gonna give the belts to two guys who can't get on the mic and say much of importance. Match would probably be fun though so that could get them past Battleground. Here's to hoping they stick someone else with Cesaro (maybe reunite with Swagger?) to freshen things up as New Day seems to be on their way to beating everyone. I really just want Harper & Rowan in the mix, honestly. Give the belts to PTP and have them face off.

I sound like I really don't like anything that's going on right now, but after Elimination Chamber and one week of WWE television, I can't hep but feel like this PPV is gonna be a down one and that's not supposed to be the feeling around Money in the Bank.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Bruce L, thank you for the Kanemoto recommendations. Will be getting on those soon!



Brock said:


> *Black Tiger (Eddy Guerrero) vs. Koji Kanemoto (NJ 6/25/95)*
> 
> x2ssqsn


Thank you so much!!!! 

Do you happen to have this match?:


> Naomichi Marufuji vs Katsuhiko Nakajima - 11.02.2010


That's the only Marufuji match that's been recommended to me here, that I can't find anywhere. 




Bruce L said:


> [Marifuji's] defenses against Sekimoto and Sugiura were gold


I see two matches of Marufuji's vs. Sekimoto in 2014. Would you recommend both of them?



Yeah1993 said:


> Oh don't get me wrong at his worst I think he is Marufuji-level scumsuck. But no, all he needs is a guy that'll force him to act the underdog and he's irreplaceable. You should watch KENTA/SUWA 9/18/05. SUWA is an honest-to-God heel, and the match is almost like a Rey Mysterio main event.


Watched that KENTA/SUWA match. Was really good, thanks! SUWA did every heel thing ever, and that's the first time I've ever seen that old dude, presenter, do something, lol.

Loved how SUWA kept turning and turning while he was choking KENTA out, so that the ref couldn't see what he was doing. Love the little details.

SUWA comes off as much bigger than he is, due to his attitude. He's not that tall, but I still felt myself referring him as "the big dude." Testament to how well he plays his role.

They are just so much sicker, quicker, and more creative with their counters in Japan, btw. That's the #1 thing I find myself missing when I go back to American wrestling.

Marked when KENTA countered SUWA's corner, rocket, dropkick with a Hurricana. Also, the way he countered & lifted SUWA into the GTS was great.

I also watched that KENTA/Marufuji vs. SUWA/Marvin tag. SUWA was being a good heel in this one too. At one point, Marufuji breaks up the tag, so SUWA gets up and chops him....but it was just so great, because it was so perfectly timed, that it really came off as punishment, like punishing the unruly kid. Rather than just getting the person out of the ring, you know? SUWA has the character to pull off me thinking that way.

The way KENTA sold SUWA's rocket corner kick was SICK. I was thinking to myself, as usual, the Japanese do it better (because Devitt does that same move, but it doesn't look quite as impactful...but maybe that's just because KENTA sells it so damn well).

If you watch, watch all the way until the end because more happens. Don't read if you don't want to be spoiled:


Spoiler: spoiler



I was thinking that Marufuji was just being lazy by pointing the guy toward KENTA, to have KENTA hold the trophy, lmao. Then I was like "ohhhh, ok. lol."


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

LilOlMe said:


> I see two matches of Marufuji's vs. Sekimoto in 2014. Would you recommend both of them?


The 10/12 one is the title match, which I heartily recommend. The other one might be from the Global League? Not sure; I haven't seen it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> @ hailsabin1990 because you changed your name again.
> 
> Man, we're so off base on the use of finishers in NXT. I think Zayn winning with the yakuza kick is weak as fuck. :lol It is what it is though. I didn't expect the package piledriver or top rope brainbuster but I didn't want these casual moves either. Oh well.
> 
> ...



Funny you should mention Zayn and the Yakuza kick because I had a discussion the another member about that very recently. He was saying Zayn should have used the Blue Thunder Bomb as his finish and the Yakuza kick as a signature move, and I disagreed. Here is where simple taste in wrestling divides opinions. You aren't wrong for thinking the way you do, but for me personally, a running, full speed, kick right to the fucking face is about as devastating a finish reality wise as you can have. I mean really, what will do more damage, an F5 to someone or a running full speed kick? It's not quite as devastating as the Orton Punt, Rollins Curb Stomp, or Bryan Knee, but it's more impactful than 75% of the current finishes used.

Really though, it's all in how you book moves as Heyman said on the Austin podcast. If the WWE banned headlocks for 1 year, then Mark Henry came out and debuted a really gnarly, wrenching type headlock and started making dudes pass out and tap out left and right for 6 months, that move would be OVER. For Zayn's Yakuza kick, it's the same thing. Just make sure no one else is doing the running high kick, either in the corner or anywhere, and just leave it to him and let him beat guys for 6 months to 1 year with it without anyone kicking out and it's good to go. No one kicked out of Bryan's knee for like a year or so until I guess Reigns did at FastLane. Even still, when Bryan comes back for his first match and hits that knee, you're going to expect the match to be over.

That's why I just want to beat my head against the wall when I see all these matches that have multiple finisher kick outs on B PPV's, let alone when it happens on Raw and even Smackdown. I can tolerate multiple finisher kick outs at WrestleMania and to a certain extent in other really big WWE title matches at like Summerslam or whatever. But for gosh sakes the WWE needs to let these new guys beat people with their finish without a kickout for at least a year or so in order to get the move over. Owens has had 1 main roster match and Cena has already kicked out of the pop up power bomb. That was so unnecessary, Owens was hitting Cena with all kinds of inventive, non finisher devastating moves that looked credible enough to beat Cena, Cena didn't need to kick out of the power bomb. But what's done is done I guess, hopefully rhey just go forward from here and let him really establish it. Though Im almost certain Cena is kicking out of it again in their next match cause, it's WWE logic and all :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think Paul Heyman took the hyperbole too far with the headlock example. If such a situation happened, fans would chant "boring" at Henry and nobody would care about such a stupid finisher. They tried it with Khali back in 2006 and nobody gave a shit. They tried it with giving Umaga that stupid thumb move and nobody gave a shit. Fans want flash more than anything. More Red Arrows. Less lariats and bearhugs.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

You're certainly not wrong in your thinking, Chris. It's fine to think that way about the Yakuza kick which in fact does sound devastating when you truly think about it. It's just all on me personally. I've seen Generico wrestle the last decade and I don't know if I've EVER seen him win with that move, so it's just difficult for me to start perceiving it as his finisher, ya know? It's like, imagine after all this time in the WWE, Randy Orton went to TNA and started winning all his matches with the middle rope DDT and that was his new finisher. I know in essence it's a devastating move and I use this example because of Austin's podcast, but wouldn't that just feel odd to you? It would just take some time to adjust I guess. As you were saying, as long as it's built correctly, it'll work. We'll see what happens.

That probably wasn't a good example though because a middle rope DDT would be a sick ass finisher. :lol Always love it when it's delivered.

Well shit, funnyfaces just made a pretty solid point there.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I think Paul Heyman took the hyperbole too far with the headlock example. If such a situation happened, fans would chant "boring" at Henry and nobody would care about such a stupid finisher. They tried it with Khali back in 2006 and nobody gave a shit. They tried it with giving Umaga that stupid thumb move and nobody gave a shit. Fans want flash more than anything. More Red Arrows. Less lariats and bearhugs.


If it were a simple headlock, yes. If he ragdolled his opponent a la Rowan with his bearhug, no. I think Heyman's right that it'd be a very over move.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I think Paul Heyman took the hyperbole too far with the headlock example. If such a situation happened, fans would chant "boring" at Henry and nobody would care about such a stupid finisher. They tried it with Khali back in 2006 and nobody gave a shit. They tried it with giving Umaga that stupid thumb move and nobody gave a shit. Fans want flash more than anything. More Red Arrows. Less lariats and bearhugs.


I myself think Henry was at his worst (from since he actually got really good, anyway) during that bearhug period of 2007. I do want to go back and watch his bigger matches during that time (the fact he got the main event of a PPV against the returning Undertaker is a little baffling to me), but I don't expect much. It just felt like a filler move.

I don't think "less lariats" is true. I mean it's just a clothesline, no big deal. It'd be like saying people wouldn't want a superkick for a finisher. Past few years alone we have moves that got over (or are still over) just by being used by a certain wrestler. Sheamus just has a boot. Barrett just has an elbow. Henry just has a...slam. Cena just has a firemen's carry. Bryan just runs into a guy. Del Rio had an armbar thing. Kofi just kicks people in the head. Then when you try to get creative you sometimes get Wyatt's stupid thing or the finisher Ambrose used to have where he hilariously put people in a headlock and then just tripped over. (does he still do that?) 

Umaga's thumb is an odd example to me because it was always seen as a lethal move. Wasn't it? Am I remembering wrong? Pretty sure it was a move most people looked at the opponent and thought "oh well - he tried." 

Hell, people popped like crazy for the fucking COBRA. How did THAT move get over? :lmao

I know for one damn thing the sleeper hold - every time it's applied - seems to get a bizarrely big reaction no matter who's using it.


I like usual moves being finishers because it feels like anybody can use it - but only one (at the time in the company) can perfect it. A thousand morons can try a running knee but won't get the result Daniel Bryan can. BUT they usually can't use it anyway. Having a normal move as a finisher can limit what other can do in the same show: 

*Nobody in the WWE has been allowed to use a firemen's carry for 7 years. If 'repawts' are true Tyler Reks got heat for using a move even midly similar. Ironic considering the FU was a kayfabe knock off of the F-5.
*Some dude in 2001 got heat with NOAH or something because he used a 450 splash on the same show 2 Cold Scorpio was on. 
*Yuki Ishikawa - who uses an Inoki-like Manji-Gatame b/c he's such an Inoki fanboy - didn't use it in a match on an Inoki tribute show; likely because Inoki would use it on the same show. Rocky Romero uses it the next match and looks like an idiot. 
*Even though Taker's career is basically over you can almost be certain nobody who is ever hired by WWE ever again will be able to use the tombstone piledriver in any spot in any match. At least not without it being a direct Undertaker reference. 

Another problem could be - if your finisher is a, say, a lariat - you gotta avoid using a lariat/clothesline until it means something. Which, honestly, I think is very often a positive because it strengthens the move that much, but it depends on the wrestler. "Holy shit - the LARIAT" versus "oh, a lariat".


I haven't seen Zayn use the Yakuza kick (I don't think), but just based on what the Yakuza kick is I could see it not being a credible finisher. I won't judge Zayn's use before seeing it in the context of an entire match but it does tend to feel like a move that only a jobber'd get pinned by. Especially when you have 6'4" Sheamus booting some in the face and having them kick out at 2. And then another kick out. Then another. THEN ANOTHER THEN ANOTHER WHAT ACTION. we gotta got to a commercial - sabscribe to the network. BTW did you know WWE has more facebook asshole buddies than Oprah, the NFL, and twix combined??


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

On the topic of finishers, Dolph Ziggler actually beat Adam Rose this week on Main Event with one singular superkick. How shitty is that? That never happens. :lol


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That sounds like a good thing. Ziggler throws a mean superkick that has a nice snap. He should finish more people with it.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> If someone has Kanemoto vs. Black Tiger from June of '95, then you should definitely send it to LilOlMe. I scoured the webs and could only find the JIP version, but the full match is pretty damn good. Only have it on a disc, myself.





Brock said:


> Ill upload the match when i can. I need to watch more of Eddie in Japan TBH.





Brock said:


> *Black Tiger (Eddy Guerrero) vs. Koji Kanemoto (NJ 6/25/95)*
> 
> x2ssqsn


Yeah, it was good. At first I was a little underwhelmed, but as it went on, I was thinking to myself "this is very pure."

Damn you, Yeah, for infiltrating my brain, because I was like "Eddie got up kind of damn fast from that suplex to the outside." :lol

The last few minutes were so damn smooth. Incredible how different Kanemoto came across there, compared to now.

Enjoyable, thank you.

One more request, Do you happen to have these two matches?:


> Pac (Neville) vs. Tozawa 1/27/2012 & 4/2/2011





Brock said:


> Well i can safely say [6/28/97 El Samurai vs. Koji Kanemoto (Super Juniors Tournament Finals) *****] is one of my most favorite NJ matches. Pace just quickens as the match goes on, some great spots. For sure my sort of match.


Thank you, will be watching this tomorrow.





Yeah1993 said:


> Only if the no-selling is consistent, I guess. If that German spot was the one bad thing about a perfectly good match with fine selling; I'd still hate the spot, but not the overall match. Likening that to a meal would be like a pizza with one really bad slice for some reason. If the no-selling is consistent, then it's just flat out a bad meal. I guess there can other positives about the match, but, yeah, consistent no-selling is a deal-breaker. I can point out things about the match I thought were OK, but the match is pretty much dead to me if they don't sell. Like, IDK, a pizza that I think could have been saved had they not put on five stupid ass toppings and just left it cheese.


Understood. I guess I mainly look at it as great selling will take it over the top to me, but lack of selling may not be a total buzzkill for me. I guess it depends on how egregious it is, and how much other stuff is going on in the match that I consider a positive.

Though after this convo, I guess I'm going to be thinking about it a lot more now. Thanks. 

It's true, though, that I'll always praise someone for great selling, yet I probably don't complain as much as most people here about a lack of long term selling. Which tells me that I do view things differently than you in this regard. Like an extra credit type of thing. Maybe I do have lower standards in this regard. 

I just thought of the Hogan/Flair cage match, which I think funnyfaces mentioned as the worst selling ever. lol, I don't remember much in that regard one way or another. But all I remember is Hogan fucking press slamming Sherri in the middle of the ring. Stuff like that is so ridiculous, and I don't know why I can't accept that when I can accept a bunch of other types of ridiculousness....but it just makes wrestling look so needlessly fake to me, that it's not even amusing. Ultimate good guys should not be beating up women, and press slamming them and shit. And most importantly, women shouldn't be able to take that kind of move and roll out of the ring. 

I don't know why I went off on that tangent, but whatevs.




Yeah1993 said:


> The mood thing IS true to some degree. An example to me is Rey/Punk from ER2010. When I watched that PPV and wrote about it, my thoughts were "I feel like I didn't enjoy this as much as I should've; will watch again later". I wound up watching it later and thinking the exact same thing, but, I mean, I chalked it down to 'mood' the first time, so it does happen. Probably rarely because if somebody is watching wrestling then they actually want to watch wrestling at that time, but it does happen.


Mood matters a lot for some people, IMO. You can think you're in the mood for wrestling, but aren't. But most importantly, a certain type of wrestling may not tickle your fancy at the time. Especially if you don't know what type of match you're going to get. 

Aren't you the same way with movies? Have you ever been watching a documentary and realized you're more in the mood for a comedy or vice versa? It's going to effect how you feel about what you're watching if you don't turn it off.

Also, I find mood in general just matters. Whether I'm in a more analytical mood...or like I said, when I watch with casuals and make the conscious decision to just view things through their prism (which I find is that they enjoy things a hellavu lot more, and don't really analyze or notice things like we do). When I consciously shut my brain down like that, and especially when I choose to view it as a silly show, my standards are much lower.




Yeah1993 said:


> "Wrong"? No. I suppose, anyway. There was a discussion in this thread a while back where I said something like "you'd have to think there was at least some truth to your opinion - otherwise you wouldn't have it." I tried my best not to sound like a jerk while saying that, but I stand by it. How can you have the opinion that one thing is better than another - without thinking it's legitimately better than other?


Of course. I agree with you. I was just challenging the "objective" comment. You objectively have these thoughts, but the other people might feel just as strongly that it's an objective thought on their part. So now it's subjective. Is there an objectively "good" and "bad" in wrestling? We all think so, but...

To them, lack of selling may not constitute an offense that makes a match bad or shit in their eyes. It may just not be as important to them.

Whereas others might disagree with me that beating up on Sherri & doing wrestling moves to her during a match in the middle of the ring, does not make the match look like a farce to them.

We all have different things we look for, and different things we consider absolutes, you know?

To my point...



Yeah1993 said:


> Bold part is true. I used to love Angle. If I watched Marufuji in 2008 I'd've loved him too. I kind of like that because I'm able to view those Angle matches from that point of view because I used to be there. While watching Angle (the bad Angle) I never think "I used to think this was good" or "why did I think this was good?" I just think "this isn't good."


I don't really have a hardcore opinion on Angle, other than I like how different he sounds in real life (I'm _always_ expecting him to sound like a doofus because of his character...which tells you how well he played his character, lol). However, soooooo many legends in the business have praised the shit out of Angle. You'd think they'd know better than anyone that he's generally a bad seller with questionable at best logical ring psychology, right?

So why do they still love him and call him one of the best ever? 

This is what I'm saying. Because even for people who know the business inside out, they have various tolerance levels & things they look for. So what constitutes a "bad" wrestler or match isn't absolute. It's pretty individual. 




Yeah1993 said:


> I guess I just don't like the thought process that wrestling is fake so it doesnt matter what happens in it.


I know what you mean. I guess my point was more about the sports entertainment vs. purist thing. 

If you view wrestling as a glitzy show that's very much driven by colorful characters and that's your draw, you're probably going to not only be more tolerant of Goldberg no selling a chairshot...you're probably going to prefer that. Because shit is just fun.




Yeah1993 said:


> Nah, I think I know what you mean too. Angle/Benoit at RR03. Like, it worked, I guess. It *really* worked. Standing ovation (whether it was started by Shane like the rumour says or not), goes down in history as a GOAT match to a lot of people, will be forever remembered. I'm definitely not the only one who came out that thinking that finishers look like useless rubbish, but *thousands* didn't. Either, IDK, they didn't care, or they thought the finishers actually looked good. Back to the 'truth' thing I really do think the finishers being traded in that match looked like they meant absolutely nothing. Soooo many people think it's amazing though. Does that make it good? How many TNA fans chanted "this is awesome" at the Angle/Hardy match? Have you SEEN that match?


Haven't seen that TNA match, but I'm assuming the chants were the obligatory ones that people do during every show now, right?

People do genuinely have love for Angle/Benoit, though.




Yeah1993 said:


> I'd've loved that, honestly. WWE won't capitilize on that because they suck, but "guy tears up another guy's leg so much that he can't be a flyer for a bit and has to change his game, even for the next week'? - Fuuuuuuuuck yes. Gives a match a story before it begins.


That's what Neville was doing in the Barrett RAW match, and I loved that. He even fell when he went for a move on the rope or something. It was great.

You're right, if he had to make a whole deal out of trying to get wins without flying, it'd be fun to watch from an appreciation standpoint.

However, I think Vince thought better of it, because in his match with Dallas at EC (which one would think that all this leg stuff was being built up for), Dallas barely even went after the knee, and the storyline just completely died there.

So I think Vince thought to himself "why am I limiting what the GENERAL audience probably wants to see?"

Maybe he was wrong, and the general audience would have appreciated great storytelling like that (we all look back fondly at Bret's KOTR '93 continued usage of injuries throughout all three matches...but how many people there even really noticed it? How much of the general public would probably speak in awe about Angle/Benoit '03 before Bret/Bigelow 93?). However, the crowd was pretty damn dead when Neville was doing the great selling, so maybe Vince is right.

The mood thing again with me for the Neville selling issue, btw. While your idea sounds awesome & that's why I was really enjoying his match with Barrett...I also just wasn't too into the mood for that the next week. Maybe if I felt that the wrestlers were just as invested, rather than doing it because that's just what the storyline called for...I don't know. Or maybe I was just salty because Neville wasn't in the EC, lol.




Yeah1993 said:


> Never minded filling time as long as it isn't ridiculously obvious they're doing the move purely to fill time. If it's logical then, nah, never cared. It usually isn't illogical so much as it just is uninteresting, though.


Exactly, this. I don't really mind, but because it's often not the most interesting thing, I guess I just don't find it necessary all of the time.

I like your Christian example, btw. 




Yeah1993 said:


> I'll watch Marufuji/Kanemoto, btw. I really will. I WILL. Might even watch that tag b/c SUWA's in it. HEY, SHUT UP. I might watch it. DON'T LAUGH.


Erm, I re-watched it, with the knowledge that you might be dropping a big ass hammer on it. You will definitely have an issue with some things, lol, but I find the match compelling enough to recommend it anyway. For your tastes, you might not consider it a "good match", but it might be like that Eddie match where you'd consider it excellent otherwise (I think you said that you were on your way to considering an Eddie match excellent until he stopped selling something).

Kanemoto's demeanor was great, though.

For your tastes, the Marufuji/Devitt match that I linked to here would probably be your best bet for "good" Marufuji. Only watched it once, so if I'm misremembering something, sorry, but I don't think that Marufuji does anything that you wouldn't like. Also, Devitt does a great job of selling.

On another subject, I had no idea that Marufuji was VP of NOAH. From reading this article, I see why KENTA got out of dodge. It sounds like Marufuji has enormous pressure on his shoulders. 

It basically sounds like if Shawn or Bret were also in the position of running the company in 95 or 96, but dealing with even more dire circumstances. Marufuji seems very loyal, if nothing else.

Also read that he's the head trainer at their DOJO, so he's got a lot on his plate. I thought of you and smiled when I read that, though.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I think Paul Heyman took the hyperbole too far with the headlock example. If such a situation happened, fans would chant "boring" at Henry and nobody would care about such a stupid finisher. They tried it with Khali back in 2006 and nobody gave a shit. They tried it with giving Umaga that stupid thumb move and nobody gave a shit. Fans want flash more than anything. More Red Arrows. Less lariats and bearhugs.


I disagree. Maybe I am misremembering because I wasn't watching at the time when Umaga was at the height of his powers, but every time he did that spike it was treated as a big deal when I watch his old matches.

I DO know, even when I was younger and watching it live, I thought Bradshaws Clothesline from Hell was a fucking killer move, but maybe that was just me and my buddies and everyone else thought it sucked. I even used it for my created wrestler in the WWE WrestleMania 2000 game for N64.

The Khali example to me, again I wasn't watching live at the time, but even watching back now, that move wasn't credible because Khali wasn't really credible, or atleast it never seems that way. Yea he's huge but his work was so bad that people just didn't seem to care. Henry is different, or he was. I'm not talking about 2015 Henry who has been booked to oblivion, I'm talking 2011-2013 Henry. If they took headlocks out for a year then let Henry debut a monster headlock were he made it look like he was trying to rip someone's head off or crush their skull? I can't see that not getting over. John Cena got the single ugliest, most phony STF I've ever seen over, Henry could get a devastating looking headlock over I really believe that. Can't be proven though so you could of course be right bud, who am I to say you're wrong?

Last bit of evidence supporting my case: Big Shows WMD at one time was over HUGE. It's just a fucking big punch, so if you can get a punch over as a finish if the guy is big, strong, and talented enough, then a headlock should be too.

Remember this is the day of MMA popularity. People nowadays understand how lethal a great submission is.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> You're certainly not wrong in your thinking, Chris. It's fine to think that way about the Yakuza kick which in fact does sound devastating when you truly think about it. It's just all on me personally. I've seen Generico wrestle the last decade and I don't know if I've EVER seen him win with that move, so it's just difficult for me to start perceiving it as his finisher, ya know? It's like, imagine after all this time in the WWE, Randy Orton went to TNA and started winning all his matches with the middle rope DDT and that was his new finisher. I know in essence it's a devastating move and I use this example because of Austin's podcast, but wouldn't that just feel odd to you? It would just take some time to adjust I guess. As you were saying, as long as it's built correctly, it'll work. We'll see what happens.
> 
> That probably wasn't a good example though because a middle rope DDT would be a sick ass finisher. :lol Always love it when it's delivered.
> 
> Well shit, funnyfaces just made a pretty solid point there.


See I can't really debate you because I didn't go back and start watching Sami Zayn/Generico matches until 2013 or so, whenever it was that he was just debuting on NXT and Hayley started dreaming himself with excitement whenever it was announced Zayn would have a match on the upcoming weeks NXT show.




LilOlMe said:


> If it were a simple headlock, yes. If he ragdolled his opponent a la Rowan with his bearhug, no. I think Heyman's right that it'd be a very over move.


That's what I was saying, yea. I'm not talking just a standard headlock, I'm saying one done by a 400+ lb man who was ranked by a power lifting magazine as the 2nd strongest man to ever walk the face of planet Earth, with that mans massive bicep clenched tightly around your head with repeated wrenching action.



Yeah1993 said:


> I myself think Henry was at his worst (from since he actually got really good, anyway) during that bearhug period of 2007. I do want to go back and watch his bigger matches during that time (the fact he got the main event of a PPV against the returning Undertaker is a little baffling to me), but I don't expect much. It just felt like a filler move.
> 
> I don't think "less lariats" is true. I mean it's just a clothesline, no big deal. It'd be like saying people wouldn't want a superkick for a finisher. Past few years alone we have moves that got over (or are still over) just by being used by a certain wrestler. Sheamus just has a boot. Barrett just has an elbow. Henry just has a...slam. Cena just has a firemen's carry. Bryan just runs into a guy. Del Rio had an armbar thing. Kofi just kicks people in the head. Then when you try to get creative you sometimes get Wyatt's stupid thing or the finisher Ambrose used to have where he hilariously put people in a headlock and then just tripped over. (does he still do that?)
> 
> ...


I think most moves done in a WWE ring, if they are made to look good enough and booked properly, can get over. The flip side to that is, no matter how good you make a move look, if it's not booked strongly it'll never get over as a real finish. It's in the booking, going back to Cena, he has the most unimpactful finishes I've ever seen in modern WWE. The least threatening since maybe Hogan's leg drop, and it really doesn't matter. It's all in the performer and the booking.

I think Zayn's kick looks pretty good, he makes a good effort to not have any space showing, he lays it in about as snug as he can without breaking dudes noses and busting their lip. Could he have picked a better finish since the Brainbustahhh wasn't allowed for some reason? Sure. With him being a baby face and a high flyer, maybe he could have gone with a really gnarly Enzuigiri or a top rope move of some sort. But all things considered he could have done a lot worse. It's a move he can do to anyone, and there is little to no risk of legitimately hurting his opponent or himself as long as he isn't criminally careless when doing it.

Last point: Hansens lariat was over huge in Japan, even though everyone did a lariat of some sort in their matches. Didn't matter, because Hansen ripped people's heads off and he used it to beat A LOT of people. No one in the WWE was beating anyone with an arm bar/breaker before ADR came around and that move was over as a finish. People understood in a real fight if you catch someone in a cross arm breaker, cinch it in tight, and use your legs to keep him from rolling over/using his opposite arm to break the hold, you are just about done. Try it some time on your girlfriend like I do . She's experienced the Figure Four, Sharpshooter, Yes Lock, and the STF :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Superkick as a finisher in current WWE is probably the shittiest thing to do considering 15 people use it. Jobber status. At least change it up. Sheamus does a pump kick, Zayn has a Yakuza, & Rollins even has his Avada Kedavra aka what Del Rio used back in the day to win some matches w/. Low centered superkick manages to change it up for the impact. Superkick is now way overused. Which is odd b/c you'd think it would be protected via Michaels' legacy, only it isn't. I blame the trashy mentality from a few fans today. Now if this was a finisher & limited to only one person, it's obviously good to go. I don't mind repeats among certain guys either, I'm just stating a point WWE likes to go. That and 2 people having a lethal similar kick > tag teams, divas, midcarders, & everyone else using it b/c it is a quick thingy to earn a pop in a match while watering it down week by week.

Simple moves can easily work as finishers. A mentality saying it can't will never be something I agree w/. I think it sucks, quite frankly.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> See I can't really debate you because I didn't go back and start watching Sami Zayn/Generico matches until 2013 or so, whenever it was that he was just debuting on NXT and Hayley started dreaming himself with excitement whenever it was announced Zayn would have a match on the upcoming weeks NXT show.


I remember he randomly showed up for a casual backstage interview to say he's on NXT & I nearly choked drinking my soda or whatever b/c I reacted. WWE being coy af w/that intro.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I think people are thinking of a standard headlock that some scrub applies as a go-to heel workover because they have no creativity. Henry, I'd imagine, would lynch people in that headlock and rag-doll them around, half breaking their necks. Headlocks, even without the power game, can look brutal. I'll try remember which wrestler did this, and I'm probably thinking of a sleeper hold, but he synced in the lock, and kept grinding his arm into the guy's throat and applying a disgusting amount of pressure into his larynx. There's another instance when multiple elbows to the cerebellum were delivered while the opponent was trapped in a headlock and almost passed out. _That would get over_.

Only issue in Heyman's words is that if you didn't let others do the headlock, Orton wouldn't have anything to do.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That sounds similar to when Danielson would lock in a triangle choke and proceed to throw elbows on the head while zapping the air away. I know a triangle choke is rarer in wrestling, thus less work to get over than a "common" headlock, although it'll do well when the right person applies it. A monster w/the right amount of talent can make bearhugs nasty & great, headlocks are no different. Think Cesaro and how he makes a chinlock AWESOME.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> Do you happen to have this match?:
> 
> That's the only Marufuji match that's been recommended to me here, that I can't find anywhere.





LilOlMe said:


> One more request, Do you happen to have these two matches?:


Afraid not, sorry.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watched Sami Callihan vs Brodie Lee from an EVOLVE show and amazingly to the point I just touched on via my last post, it was used in this match. Callihan applied the Stretch Muffler w/o doing too, too much work to the leg in the match, but he enhanced the hold by giving gnarly axe kicks straight into Lee's face to maximize the punishment all around. Stuff like that instantly adds a legitimate flair behind a hold. Again, while a Stretch Muffler too isn't as rudimentary as a headlock via so many using it as a go-to "rest" hold, adding in this fashion is certainly credible.

Oh, and the match is a hyperbolic greatest thing i've ever seen. Yet, I don't mean the hyperbole despite the overuse. It's perfect. Fucking glorious & what I want to see from that type of match presented.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

really weird mood 

want to watch miz matches


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

From late 2011 right? I was going to ask if you've seen that.


----------
2010


Swagger and Morrison have an OK match but the stoppage for blood was completely silly because from where I was seeing it, Swagger wasn’t even bleeding. It was that small. It at least gave Morrison a little time to rest after being beat down to try to work up a come back but it’s a bit of a momentum killer. Match ends with a powerbomb after a Masters-ish bump to the outside of the ring, which is a neat thing because I’m used to a spot like that being the game-changer in the match instead of the game-ender. Morrison’s kind of been a guy I’ve raised my opinion on through this thing. I still don’t have the highest opinion of him post-MNM but I don’t really wish I was watching somebody else any more. Sheamus matches helped, duh. Excited for the Raw matches of those. 

McIntyre/Hardy I didn’t know existed?? And it rules??? Hardy pretty much works a head-banged angle the whole time, especially after the barricade spot, and McIntyre got a PHD in same-body-part-attacking. Hardy’s flash side-effect and then doubling it up with another side-effect after the first one got him a nearfall was a pretty great desperate cannonfire. Match ends with Drew’s SuperScottish McDDT on the outside which is the ultimate “lights out” for Hardy’s wobbly headiness. Close to a match I could add, honestly. 

Wasn’t really fond of the Christian/Kofi IC tourney final. Kind of felt like they were ‘just’ wrestling. Yeah it was pretty heated and I can’t really put my finger on what exactly I didn’t like. It was uninteresting to me, is all. And I thought Kofi was the worst I’ve seen him in a while. Christian at least had a couple great counters. Catching a leap frog and using an electric chair in shockingly uncommon. Might just be too risky to be a normal thing to do.

Same episode of SD as Christian/Kofi had a Rey/Punk I didn’t know was a thing. I would have settled for just that McIntyre/Hardy, FFS. Anyway it was a bit of a blast, and would be an easy list-maker if they got to flesh out the match a little more. When Punk wasn’t on top he was really great throwing ditch efforts to make sure he COULD be on top. Near the match’s beginning he was sent out of the ring and quickly avoided a seated senton. Rey lands on his feet and Punk just flat out runs into him so he smashes into barricade. Punk looks totally out of using the barricade to actually have to not fall to the ground. There’s another great thing like that with a Punk spinkick which results in him collapsing to the floor out of exhaustion because Rey was running circles around him. Match didn’t finish well but they’re advancing a feud so I’ll let it slide. Love finding this shit. 

I didn’t watch the Christian/Edge at the time because I was that low on Edge, but I’m now interested in it because it’s maybe my favourite guy of 2010, against maybe my least favourite guy of 2010, in Toronto with a whole history and a match that people typically like. Probably should’ve checked it out back then because it was good. I would have no gripes with Edge’s year if he was on level with this. Wasn’t a real stand-out but he only did one or two things that sucked and I had to sort of rack my brain remembering them. On the other hand he did things that were cool that I instantly remember. Countering Christian’s weirdo over-the-top-rope palm to the face is cool because nobody ever does. Same deal for his Kofi-like through-the-rope kick thingy (the 2nd time Michael Cole actually called it “His Move In The Corner”). Caught Christian’s legs and then stomped directly on his face. Edge let Christian stooge him around a bit too, which rare for Christian, really. This is basically an arm match after Edge gets ‘on top’ (sort of). Edge isn’t a guy I associate with McIntyre-level limb work but the whole thing just worked really well. Christian’s selling was just unreal. And not in a “he was so good at acting hurt” way (though I won’t forget his reaction to trying to get a headlock on for a while)– but in a “he was so good at knowing when to act how hurt” way. There was a big amount of time where Edge didn’t touch the arm. Not because he didn’t choose to (I’ve ripped on a bunch of people for this), but because he pretty much didn’t have the opportunity. It was only when Christian stopped the first spear that he did whatever he could to make sure he got back to that arm, and that helped him win the match. Christian just made SURE to not let the arm affect too much of what he was doing, but also made sure to wiggle it here and there because it would play into the finish. With the more time passing that Edge hadn’t touched the arm, the more Christian was able to do. Then *bam*, he got fucked up. Won’t add this, but it was good and a feather in the cap of both guys’ 2010. Which means Edge has two feathers and Christian’s head looks like an ostrich.

Punk/Rey feud produces another really fun tag, this time w/ Gallows and MVP. MVP has copped a ton of flack from a few people the past few years but I’m really interested to see his 2008 stuff with Hardy (again). I kind of want to see his matches with Cody and Husky Harris from 2010 too just because of how hilariously unfathomably bad I remember them being. So, OK, he has very clearly sucked before, but I don’t remember thinking he always sucked. Thought he was perfectly fine here, playing FIP and I liked his yells when allows threw elbows in his ribs. Highlight of the match was Punk hits this MOSTER springboard clothesline that Rey sells in a way I seriously don’t think I can describe with words. I guess I’ll say he jumps forward – but while reclining on his back in mid air. He was running because he thought he was hitting a 619 on Gallows but Punk caught him of guard and sent his head down the entrance ramp. Kick to Punk’s face after the match was honestly hilarious to me because Punk tries to crawl after him and Rey just went “wut” *BOOM*. Gallows as usual is a great beefy steakhouse punch machine steaky beef. I need to watch his indy stuff from 2011. Is he still doing that? Anyway I haven’t added a match yet but I’m glad I get to see stuff like this. 

Current list:



Spoiler:  WHATTUP?



1.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/30/10)
2.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (SmackDown 2/12/10)
3.	John Cena v. Batista (Extreme Rules 4/25/10)
4.	Sheamus v. John Morrison (TLC 12/19/10)
5.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Over the Limit 5/23/10)
6.	Drew McIntyre v. Chris Masters (SuperStars 8/26/10)
7.	The Miz v. Daniel Bryan (Night of Champions 9/19/10)
8.	Chris Masters v. Chavo Guerrero (SuperStars 8/12/10)
9.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 8/20/10)
10.	Jack Swagger v. Rey Mysterio (SmackDown 6/11/10)
11.	Christian v. William Regal (ECW 1/19/10)
12.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/16/10)
13.	Rey Mysterio v. Jack Swagger (Money in the Bank 7/18/10)
14.	Christian v. Ezekiel Jackson (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
15.	Rey Mysterio v. Mike Knox (SuperStars 2/18/10)
16.	Christian/Kane v. William Regal/Ezekiel Jackson (ECW 1/26/10)
17.	Sheamus v. John Morrison (Survivor Series 11/21/10)
18.	Dolph Ziggler v. Chris Masters (SuperStars 5/13/10)
19.	John Cena/Edge/Chris Jericho/Bret Hart/John Morrison/R-Truth/Daniel Bryan v. The Nexus (SummerSlam 8/15/10)
20.	Rey Mysterio v. Luke Gallows (SmackDown 3/5/10)
21.	Shawn Michaels v. The Undertaker (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
22.	Goldust v. William Regal (SuperStars 8/12/10)
23.	William Regal v. Evan Bourne (SuperStars 3/4/10)
24.	Chris Jericho v. Evan Bourne (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
25.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Extreme Rules 4/29/10)


Other Contenders:

-	Christian v. William Regal (SuperStars 1/14/10) 
-	The Undertaker v. Rey Mysterio (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
-	Rey Mysterio v. Luke Gallows (SmackDown 3/19/10)
-	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
-	Kofi Kingston v. Drew McIntyre (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
-	Drew McIntyre v. Kaval (SmackDown 9/10/10)
-	Rey Mysterio/The Big Show/Kofi Kingston/Chris Masters/MVP v. Alberto Del Rio/Jack Swagger/Cody Rhodes/Drew McIntyre/Tyler Reks (Survivor Series 11/21/10) 
-




edit - @LilOlMe I'll respond to your post. Hopefully won't forget.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

what 2010 ppv should i check out?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, 2011. EVOLVE #9 is the show name. I'm tempted to watch it again, rn. If Rah continues spoils me w/Callihan career uploads, he'll replace Cal as the SOUL MATE. _(this awkwardly leaves the Jheri & I bond open w/o interpretations. we're just best friends who'll never meet b/c oceans separate us. Aussie me; American you, etc. This is how stupid I get at nearly 3 AM)_

Was that the sub-6 minutes McIntyre vs Hardy match? Like in August? b/c I recall a match where it starts out and Drew punts Matt's head inbetween some steel steps and it goes on from there. Follows the feud where Matt got the W in THE match we all know about. If I am correct - which I believe I am b/c Matt was gone by like September after vs Del Rio - then in the middle of both these matches was a p. rad Christian/Hardy vs McIntyre/Rhodes tag where the heels win via Drew booting Matt hard af in the head. To which Matt sells looking like he he took a brick to the skull & found out Lita was cheating on him all over again.

Glad you mentioned the electric chair spot in the Christian vs Kofi match. That's what sticks out the most to me. I didn't mind the match when I watched it, but I think I'm letting that great move + another good Christian showing sway me. Plus, I guess not hating a match w/the mong = praiseworthy from my POV.

Never saw Christian vs Edge. Forgot it happened. Think it got a good bit of time too. Did you find that on youtube?

Gallows does a little bit of the indies these days. Not much now that New Japan is his priority. He's still good over there; seems to work better (or more memorable) via his tag matches, rather than singles, though.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Might've been August actually. I said I wanted to watch these at least chronologically by month but depending on the upload the dates on youtube are like 2010-4-8 or 2010-8-4 so IDK which the month is. Or if the date is even tape date or air date or if it's even right in the first place.

Edge/Christian I got from here I think (I say 'I think' b/c I just collect a bundle of these and burn them to a re-writeable disc) - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xddd0i_wwe-raw-5-17-10-christian-vs-edge-h_sport

Def got a good bit of time, and that Raw was commercial-free to boot.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

> Callihan applied the Stretch Muffler w/o doing too, too much work to the leg in the match, but he enhanced the hold by giving gnarly axe kicks straight into Lee's face to maximize the punishment all around.


For reference


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I blank out on a lot of RAW stuff from 2010 that isn't Nexus or Sheamus related. I suppose Bourne too. There's a good reason for that. Forgot a 2nd commercial free RAW even took place. 

Dang. This video is nearly 20 minutes. Well then. Christian w/this kind of time is fine by me.

EDIT: brutal stretch mufflers ftw :mark: :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

KENNY said:


> what 2010 ppv should i check out?


forgot to respond to this. SummerSlam and NOC were shows I wouldn't be upset about seeing again if somebody tied me to a chair that was concreted to the floor. SummerSlam I might actually look kind of forward to. Survivor Series was pretty fun too and you'll enjoy it more than I did if you like Ziggler/Kaval.


I need to see Lee/Callihan.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll let Rah take care of that.

Survivor Series would be viewed w/about zero groans had their two biggest signed matches not been dreadful. That's really a bummer in the grand scheme of things. Undercard does a good job. None of which I actively dislike iirc. That's me underselling a few matches a tad. Sheamus vs Morrison is really great. Cody Rhodes has a temper tantrum in the Elimination match that I love.

This may be the most latter years WCW type show (shite main event; functional undercard) that WWE produced off the top of my head.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

KENNY said:


> what 2010 ppv should i check out?


Wrestlemania and Extreme Rules are all-time great shows.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ER 2010 is an all time great show? Aside from Rey/Punk, nothing strikes me as being worth a watch lol. Some people like the Cena/Batista match, but it ain't my thing .


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

Yeah, all time great for me of course, Sheamus/HHH was very good, Rey/Punk was very good, I loved Jericho/Edge(Only one in this island) and think Batista/Cena is one of the best matches of that year.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Tbh I think Cesaro could have probably made his chinlock a legit finish if they had booked it that way. It looks that good when he locks it in, and in real life if someone catches you in that hold and then grapevines you're just about done.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Thank goodness Cesaro opted for a better finisher, although I would much rather he bring back the Ricola Bomb.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I think Paul Heyman took the hyperbole too far with the headlock example. If such a situation happened, fans would chant "boring" at Henry and nobody would care about such a stupid finisher. They tried it with Khali back in 2006 and nobody gave a shit. They tried it with giving Umaga that stupid thumb move and nobody gave a shit. Fans want flash more than anything. More Red Arrows. Less lariats and bearhugs.


Umaga should have used this move and only this move!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah that definitely would be a much better finisher. I don't know about you guys, but I want my finishers to resemble something like a fatality in a Mortal Kombat game. Aesthetics and intricacy matter just as much as anything else. That's why I just can't get myself to care that much about something like a lariat as a finisher. The exception being Stan Hansen or someone that's like 300 lbs and has massive arms. But even something like Kobashi's burning lariat or Hogan's Axe Bomber just doesn't scream "fatality" to me. But that pop-up Samoan drop. That looks like death.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I don't mind guys kicking out of finishers now and again. But it has got a little ridiculous. I see where :austin and :heyman were coming from even if I didn't agree with it all. It was a great interview and my hometown got a shout out!

Dolph's finisher should be that jumping DDT he does.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

To me, a good finisher fits 4 qualifications: 1.) It fits the character who is doing it, ala Undertakers Tombstone Piledriver, JBL's Clothesline from Hell, and Vaders Vader Bomb. 2.) It can be done to anyone ala Austins Stunner, Mankinds Mandible Claw, or Reigns Spear. 3.) You can either build up to so the crowd starts building anticipation for seeing it or you can hit it out of absolutely nowhere for a flash pin ala Rock's Rock Bottom, Ortons RKO, or Big Show's WMD. And 4.) it looks like it could legitimately hurt someone enough to gain a 3 count, like Punks GTS, Bryan's Knee, or Nakamuras Bomb-a-yee knee.

You nail one of those qualifications, you might have a finish, you might not. 2 you have a pretty good finisher, 3 you have a GREAT finisher, and 4 you have an all time classic finishing move.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Dolph needs to bring back this move. Unique, painful looking, yet safe to perform. I would also love it if Dolph utilized more of his amateur wrestling ability in his matches, but that's not something expected from a babyface. However, Dolph has to be the best shooter in this business that nobody knew was a shooter. And as much as I love him, much of that has to do with his reluctance to showcase that part of him. It might have to do with WWE forcing him not to do those maneuvers, but if Dolph ever gets to showcase that side of him, then even Rah will love him.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I absolutely hate the spear as a finisher. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> Dolph needs to bring back this move. Unique, painful looking, yet safe to perform. I would also love it if Dolph utilized more of his amateur wrestling ability in his matches, but that's not something expected from a babyface. However, Dolph has to be the best shooter in this business that nobody knew was a shooter. And as much as I love him, much of that has to do with his reluctance to showcase that part of him. It might have to do with WWE forcing him not to do those maneuvers, but if Dolph ever gets to showcase that side of him, then even Rah will love him.


Yes! I loved that. Bad thing about that is he can't do that to bigger guys. Like probably could not do that to Ryback.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

@LilOlMe

*Jushin Liger vs Koji Kanemoto (NJPW 02.16.1997)*

x1t5n6t

Complete match. Uploaded it ages ago, thought it may interest you as it's an
excellent match involving Koji, and of course more importantly for me, Liger.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I absolutely hate the spear as a finisher.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes! I loved that. Bad thing about that is he can't do that to bigger guys. Like probably could not do that to Ryback.


Ditto. It makes absolutely ZERO sense that Reigns uses the Superman Punch as a signature move and spear for a finish, it absolutely should be the other way around. He should spear someone, pop up, go into the corner, and start prepping to finish them off with a superman punch. Much more realistic and I will give Reigns props here he makes that Superman punch look really good MOST of the time. 

Even Goldberg, who for my money has the best spear I've ever seen, apologies to Rhyno who also had an excellent one, almost never used the spear as his finish, it was always the jackhammer. 

A spear can be a cool move/spot when done correctly in a match, but it's just not the kind of move that would put someone down for a 3 count. A superman punch can knock someone out cold.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Reigns is pretty athletic (hence D1 football) and a lot of his moves look ok. Still green but he has improved. Wish he has some sort of finisher like the Jackhammer or something. 

Not a Goldberg guy but I did love the Jackhammer as a finisher!


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

I agree. He needs a power finisher. Whilst the Superman punch looks cool, it just feels too weak for it to be a match winning move. Spear is cool and all, but I don't like it as a finisher, he used to use his Moment of Silence in NXT but even that looked a bit too weak as a finisher, more powerful though then the Superman punch.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Erik. said:


> Moment of Silence


I actually kinda dig it. I'd love to see him do this to the Big Show. Rename it "Make it reign" or something dumb like that.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Erik. said:


> I agree. He needs a power finisher. Whilst the Superman punch looks cool, it just feels too weak for it to be a match winning move. Spear is cool and all, but I don't like it as a finisher, he used to use his Moment of Silence in NXT but even that looked a bit too weak as a finisher, more powerful though then the Superman punch.



See I guess we are just on completely different mind sets when it comes to finishing moves. Like, if Roman used a power move like that Gorilla Press-Samoan Drop thing that Umaga used to do, I would still say I think the Superman Punch is a better finish. I mean, a 250lb man running, jumping, and full force punching you in the face with all of that force and inertia coming down on a 4in space....that's a match ender right then. Any time someone hits a clean super man punch in an MMA fight, it's over, period. 

I mean....




You don't see why I think that's a strong finishing move for a pro wrestling match? It can be done out of anywhere OR built up to, it fits Romans character, it can be done to anyone at any time, and it is certainly a believable way to end a match as that video shows. That's all 4 of those imaginary qualifications for a good finish that I just made up


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I actually kinda dig it. I'd love to see him do this to the Big Show. Rename it "Make it reign" or something dumb like that.


I think he needs something with more impact. I'm surprised they didn't sort of build on his powerbomb that he frequently used in The Shield and give him some sort of powerbomb.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Making the Superman punch Reigns' finisher would be problematic for me for the same reason Big Show's KO punch is: Straight-up punching a guy in the face is so well-established as illegal in pro wrestling that it's hard for me to understand why everybody who's done it since time immemorial has gotten admonished by the ref, yet here's a 7-foot giant straight-up knocking guys out with it, and the ref just counts the fall. It's like they know they've damaged Show so badly over the years with the most inconsistent booking in wrestling that they now can't get him over as a legit threat without giving the refs a directive to just completely no-sell the established conventions of wrestling, and to me that's infinitely more annoying than wrestlers no-selling moves.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> See I guess we are just on completely different mind sets when it comes to finishing moves. Like, if Roman used a power move like that Gorilla Press-Samoan Drop thing that Umaga used to do, I would still say I think the Superman Punch is a better finish. I mean, a 250lb man running, jumping, and full force punching you in the face with all of that force and inertia coming down on a 4in space....that's a match ender right then. Any time someone hits a clean super man punch in an MMA fight, it's over, period.
> 
> I mean....
> 
> ...


I don't know, I just feel it's a little different comparing a MMA punch like that which is legit to a fake punch in a wrestling environment. I like the idea of it being out of nowhere, can hit it on anyone and it's booked strongly but maybe it's just like you said we have different mindsets. 

I do however agree with you're belief that the spear SHOULDN'T be his finishing maneuver.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Erik. said:


> I think he needs something with more impact. I'm surprised they didn't sort of build on his powerbomb that he frequently used in The Shield and give him some sort of powerbomb.


Good point.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Powerbomb for Reigns would be good... but right now Owens is using the pop-up Powerbomb and occasionally Seth has the turnbuckle Powerbomb so I'd prefer he use something else. Not too bothered with him using the Spear since it's YEARS since Goldberg used it as a set up to the Jackhammer. RHYNO made it a super credible finisher with the GORE, and we had years of Edge using his running hug as a finisher...


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I loved when Edge used the Edgeucation/Impaler thing.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Erik. said:


> I think he needs something with more impact. I'm surprised they didn't sort of build on his powerbomb that he frequently used in The Shield and give him some sort of powerbomb.


I thought originally that that's what Reigns should have used as his finish once the Shield split up, a sit out power bomb-pin combo similar to the Batista Bomb.



Bruce L said:


> Making the Superman punch Reigns' finisher would be problematic for me for the same reason Big Show's KO punch is: Straight-up punching a guy in the face is so well-established as illegal in pro wrestling that it's hard for me to understand why everybody who's done it since time immemorial has gotten admonished by the ref, yet here's a 7-foot giant straight-up knocking guys out with it, and the ref just counts the fall. It's like they know they've damaged Show so badly over the years with the most inconsistent booking in wrestling that they now can't get him over as a legit threat without giving the refs a directive to just completely no-sell the established conventions of wrestling, and to me that's infinitely more annoying than wrestlers no-selling moves.


To be sure, in my ideal world, closed fist punches would still be treated as an illegal maneuver worthy of instant admonishment by a ref and used by heels whenever the ref isn't looking. But that hasn't been the case in WWE since the Attitude Era. I'd be lying if I said it didn't bother me seeing Cena start out a match against a heel who he has no prior history with by punching the heel. It just doesn't seem right, I hate it, but I can't really do anything about it. Baby faces should only punch in retaliation for a heel punching or for the climax in a really heated feud where the baby face has been wronged on many occasions and wants revenge.

If they did THAT, Reigns could just use a superman forearm strike similar to what AJ Styles used to use. Still plenty lethal.

For that matter I wish Bryan would bring back those repeated elbow strikes he would do while in ROH as a lethal finish possibility. That always brought the house down when, after trying everything else and failing to get the W, Danielson would take a seated opponent, hook their arm, and then just tee off on his head with technically legal strikes until his opponent was unconscious, resulting in either a ref stoppage victory or a pinfall. I always popped for that spot, one of my favorites.



Erik. said:


> I don't know, I just feel it's a little different comparing a MMA punch like that which is legit to a fake punch in a wrestling environment. I like the idea of it being out of nowhere, can hit it on anyone and it's booked strongly but maybe it's just like you said we have different mindsets.
> 
> I do however agree with you're belief that the spear SHOULDN'T be his finishing maneuver.


Nothing wrong with that at all bud, different strokes for different folks, I just love me some brutal looking striking moves.

Spear is ass as a finisher though, atleast we agree on something


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I thought originally that that's what Reigns should have used as his finish once the Shield split up, a sit out power bomb-pin combo similar to the Batista Bomb.
> 
> Nothing wrong with that at all bud, different strokes for different folks, I just love me some brutal looking striking moves.
> 
> Spear is ass as a finisher though, atleast we agree on something


I think the finishing moves are set in stone for Reigns now though to be honest. He may perhaps change things up if he turns heel as his moves, especially the punch is over with the crowd. Don't get me wrong, we all like brutal looking striking moves, Reigns for me has some of the best strikes in the company in my view, reminiscent of the Undertaker almost, just not too keen on the SP as his finisher.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Spear is a great finisher when guys like Goldberg, Rhyno, or Reigns are plowing through you. That's why those moves are over.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

I only ever really liked Reigns' spears on Ziggler, he made them look absolutely brutal. I remember one he done when Ziggler when he was in the corner, Ziggler was about to go for a splash in the corner and Reigns drove straight through him with a vicious spear. That was more when it was just a power move and not a finisher though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's always been his finisher since he was in The Shield. Triple powerbomb is moot b/c that's a three man move.

Watched Survivor Series 2013 today and he murdered four dudes w/it too.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Yeah that definitely would be a much better finisher. I don't know about you guys, but I want my finishers to resemble something like a fatality in a Mortal Kombat game. Aesthetics and intricacy matter just as much as anything else. That's why I just can't get myself to care that much about something like a lariat as a finisher. The exception being Stan Hansen or someone that's like 300 lbs and has massive arms. But even something like Kobashi's burning lariat or Hogan's Axe Bomber just doesn't scream "fatality" to me. But that pop-up Samoan drop. That looks like death.


I'm the complete opposite where I think a lariat is the perfect example OF a MK fatality. As a kid I had this shithead friend over my house and we were playing MK4. We both sucked so we kept dying, and then out of fucking nowhere the CP Sub-Zero does the spinal rip thing. That was in 2001 and I've never forgotten it because it was like 'THA FUCK!?" We were legit bug-eyed and slowly turned our head toward looking at each other. It wasn't really 'flashy' or didn't take five hours to pull off. It was quick, instant, and impactful - which is exactly what I like about a lariat or Sheamus Boot way lower on the tier list, Umaga's thumb. It's also why I think Cesaro's finish in 2013 should've been the uppercut (it might be now, I have no idea, but it wasn't back then). It's just that sudden "OH SHIT. That's it, he's dead." Skip to the more modern MK fatalities and they spend like 2 minutes setting them up and I just find them completely boring. I remember "rips out heart" from MK1. I largely don't remember "stick feet into spikes, shoots hole through chest, pulls out ribs through hole, throw ribs at face." I mean hell that's a made-up example itself.


I love the spear as a finish, but it just rarely looks good enough to be one.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Fighter Daron said:


> - Naomichi Marufuji vs Katsuhiko Nakajima - 11.02.2010


Is this the match?:
https://vimeo.com/30273694

If so, I've finally found it!!!

@Brock, thank you! I was planning on watching that.

ETA: I don't know why it embedded the video. I just posted the link.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

LilOlMe said:


> Is that this match?
> 
> If so, I've finally found it!!!


That's the one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

How low is the chance that I wouldn't hate that match when I hated their crummy GHC Championship match last year?

the knee/kicks ratio to anything else done has to be off the charts


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Eh; both guys were generally more well thought of in 2010 than they are today, so you might like that one a little better. I mean, it's a Nakajima singles match, so I can't imagine there aren't a billion kicks, but it's still the time when people weren't fed up with him never really progressing beyond where he was since like 2005, so whatever. I will say that I remember thinking that early '10 was a career high point for Marufuji, who's one of my favorites in general, and I don't remember finding this particular match much to write home about, if that tells you anything.



Yeah1993 said:


> Current list:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you happen to have those Christian/McIntyre matches? Looks like a match-up I could get into.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Bruce L said:


> Do you happen to have those Christian/McIntyre matches? Look like match-ups I could get into.


I think this is where I would've seen them

7/16
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZhi3GzV2Ng
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOK-cjOSJs4

7/30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR7HE_-vdMM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZemSHOG-1c

8/20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Alz-u-sbg


LilOlMe response going in a spoiler tag for being so big:




Spoiler: poiuytr













Spoiler: _






LilOlMe said:


> Though after this convo, I guess I'm going to be thinking about it a lot more now. Thanks.


aw damn I hate doing that to people. :lmao



LilOlMe said:


> I just thought of the Hogan/Flair cage match, which I think funnyfaces mentioned as the worst selling ever. lol, I don't remember much in that regard one way or another. But all I remember is Hogan fucking press slamming Sherri in the middle of the ring. Stuff like that is so ridiculous, and I don't know why I can't accept that when I can accept a bunch of other types of ridiculousness....but it just makes wrestling look so needlessly fake to me, that it's not even amusing. Ultimate good guys should not be beating up women, and press slamming them and shit. And most importantly, women shouldn't be able to take that kind of move and roll out of the ring.


for what it's worth the last time I watched that match I thought it was awesome an that funnyfaces was a completely wrong weeny head. I don't remember Hulk slamming Sherri but on paper I think I'd agree with what you said there. Maybe not on the comeuppance thing (sometimes it's incredible like Steamboat getting so fucking fed up at Madusa that he hits her then panics and apologizes and sees her whimpering and it turns out she was possuming so DA could kill Steamboat......Steamboat/Eaton 4/4/92. Awesome spectacle match. @Obfatchination have you seen this?) But Sherri rolling out of the ring too early is something I'd likely be bothered by.

Also even as a face Hulk Hogan was pretty much an ASSSSHOLE. How many times did that prick rake the back? He was a sore loser in the 92 Rumble so he helped Flair eliminate Sid. Hollywood couldn't have come soon enough.




LilOlMe said:


> Mood matters a lot for some people, IMO. You can think you're in the mood for wrestling, but aren't. But most importantly, a certain type of wrestling may not tickle your fancy at the time. Especially if you don't know what type of match you're going to get.



Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes and yes. I'll bring up Taue/Williams again. There were a couple early minutes that I thought were dull. Part of that is I remember the match being this slugfesty beef n cheese slugfest. I immediately feared that the match wasn't what I thought it was - and i was re-watching b/c i wanted a slugfesty beef n cheese slugfest. So these couple minutes kind of bored me and then *boom* it turned to be exactly what I wanted it to be/remembered it being. I guess it's why build id important in wrestling. You can;t really force your audience into a mood, but you can at least tell them what's coming so they aren't disappointed. Two guys can have a maestro-level mat classic in the ring, but if it's in a ring surrounded by a cage after promos where they said they wanted to kill each other - they have fucked up.



LilOlMe said:


> Aren't you the same way with movies? Have you ever been watching a documentary and realized you're more in the mood for a comedy or vice versa? It's going to effect how you feel about what you're watching if you don't turn it off.


This can't apply to me b/c I honestly don't really watch movies. If I want to watch a movie it's pretty much always a comedy I'm after and even then...I don't really care about movies. I've maybe not seen 100 my whole life.

I play too many video games though and I can come up with a few examples there. I'd probably like Final Fantasy VII more on a second playthrough because the first time I probably thought I was just getting a JPRG without bullshit. If I ever re-play it I'll know I have to go through some shitty desert trip, the Gold Saucer, snowboard nonsense, fake tactics shit, an almost infinite staircase and the submarine thing. This may be a poor example because I might be talking expectations instead of mood, but I kind of was just in the mood to play a JRPG and it was like 5 hours in where it truly felt like one.



LilOlMe said:


> Also, I find mood in general just matters. Whether I'm in a more analytical mood...or like I said, when I watch with casuals and make the conscious decision to just view things through their prism (which I find is that they enjoy things a hellavu lot more, and don't really analyze or notice things like we do). When I consciously shut my brain down like that, and especially when I choose to view it as a silly show, my standards are much lower.


I can't tell you what you think or feel or anything (duh), but I don't really have an on or off switch. I don't have an analytical mood against a casual mood. Closest thing I can think of its that if I legit watch to know how good a match is I'll actually pay attention, as opposed to having Raw on in the background while playing a video game or something. Still if something shitty or good catches my peripheral vision I still always have the same mindset.

I do have moods where I actually don't feel like physically being analytical to where I talk about things on the internet, but my brain still works like "that was shitty selling". It's just instant, I guess. I take no time to think about exactly what I'm watching, is what I'm saying. I might to some degree if I'm ranking the matches on a list. In fact I definitely do, but I don't do it during the match b/c if the match hasn't finished then IDK where the hell to put it yet. :lol Sometimes I don't feel like watching 2010 because I'll know I might have to think about how good the match is in comparison with the 30 other matches I have to the list, yeah. But if I watch something else I don't really turn off an analytical mindset because there isn't one to turn off. I suppose I'm analytical but not really........*purposely*.....? 



LilOlMe said:


> Of course. I agree with you. I was just challenging the "objective" comment. You objectively have these thoughts, but the other people might feel just as strongly that it's an objective thought on their part. So now it's subjective. Is there an objectively "good" and "bad" in wrestling? We all think so, but...
> 
> To them, lack of selling may not constitute an offense that makes a match bad or shit in their eyes. It may just not be as important to them.


That's what makes it an opinion I guess. By me saying I'm being "objective" I'm not forcing others to think that way, or making them shy away from what they consider objectively good/bad/better/worse. You'd go crazy considering everybody else's objectiveness while forming your own. I'm not going to watch Finlay, then think about everybody who says Edge is better than Finlay. I have eighty thousand reasons I think Finlay is better by five mammoth galaxies. By the same token I hope nobody who thinks Edge is better than Finlay thinks about people like me; who thinks Finlay is better than Edge. There are a couple people that want my opinion on a couple things thing but I doubt (hope?) I'm not changing anybody's opinion as opposed to just explaining how my own works. If somebody considers selling actually non-important while i consider it legit the most important in a match, we pretty have nothing to say to each other.

If I think about people who thinks stuff is good that I don't - I'd also have to think about people who thinks stuff is bad that I don't. And there's probably no end to it since I'm not sure there's a single wrestler who everybody thinks is/was great. I might have thought it was Eddie Guerrero but the 'overrated after death' stuff proves otherwise. I won't lie, there was a bit of stuff with other people I talk to who just got to the point where they didn't think Ric Flair was that good, and because I hold their opinion in at least some regard I watched some Flair just to see what I'd think (b/c it'd been years since I watched any Flair). Watched five matches I'd never seen before, came out loving it and my opinion of Flair stood still. I'm not saying that you're saying we should alter opinions based on other people's, but as jerky as it might sound, I pretty much don't think we should even keep them in mind, either.

It's like, a lot of people don't like lucha libre, and no matter how much they watch, try, or understand, they just don't think what they're watching is good. They might be thinking of someone like me while watching (b/c I might have told them about the match to see if they like it), but they won't think "he (they/whoever) thinks this is objectively good, there has to be some objective goodness in it". 

I know being "objective" might sound like pure shit because you're still pretty much catering to your own tastes to at least some degree - if not a large degree. Still if you consider that too heavily then nobody can ever be objective. Maybe I'm misusing true objectiveness, I don't know. You mix blue and yellow paint you get green. That's fact, Disputing that means you are clearly wrong. Wrestling definitely isn't the same. I just think if nobody allows themselves to be objective based on their own judgment then the idea of a debate is pretty much dead. Objectiveness is subjective....I think is what I'm getting at. :lmao

So maybe I've just misunderstood this whole time and what I'm talking IS subjectivity, but isn't saying "better" "worse" "good" "bad" an attempt at objectivity? Not to repeat myself again again again but the Michaels/Taker from 2010 I think is absolutely a damn good match. I however don't give a shit about it and basically wish to never see it again. The Survivor Series Rey/ADR tag is the most fun gem I found during this whole thing, but isn't as good a match, being unbias. 



LilOlMe said:


> Whereas others might disagree with me that beating up on Sherri & doing wrestling moves to her during a match in the middle of the ring, does not make the match look like a farce to them.
> 
> We all have different things we look for, and different things we consider absolutes, you know?


That's what makes it fun.  




LilOlMe said:


> I don't really have a hardcore opinion on Angle, other than I like how different he sounds in real life (I'm _always_ expecting him to sound like a doofus because of his character...which tells you how well he played his character, lol). However, soooooo many legends in the business have praised the shit out of Angle. You'd think they'd know better than anyone that he's generally a bad seller with questionable at best logical ring psychology, right?
> 
> So why do they still love him and call him one of the best ever?
> 
> This is what I'm saying. Because even for people who know the business inside out, they have various tolerance levels & things they look for.


I don't want to keep repeating myself, but, yeah, I don't think about what other wrestlers think about. I have definitely thought "if they actually wrestle shouldn't they know better than anybody"? The thing is, would my opinion change if I were a wrestler? No way in hell. I might consider some more impressive that they do some crazy ass moves without injuring anybody, but, no, I highly doubt I'd change. 

Terry Funk has said Masato Tanaka was better than any of the All Japan guys (this was in the 90s). So, like, better than Kawada, Taue, Misawa, Kobashi, and Jumbo and Tenryu if he meant that. If somebody online said that I'd go "whaaaaaaaat?" When Terry Funk said I went "whaaaaaaat?" It's TERRY. FUNK. 

Doesn't help that wrestlers tend to be either touchy or don't give a shit about what fans have to say about good wrestling. They often really, really, really, really don't like it when somebody who hasn't been in the ring gives an opinion about something that happened in the ring. 



LilOlMe said:


> So what constitutes a "bad" wrestler or match isn't absolute. It's pretty individual.


Of course, but again taking that into extreme consideration would mean nobody could ever be objective which means the words "better", "worse", "good", "bad", etc could never actually be used. It's something that people use all the time without anybody blinking an eye if it's consensus. "Steve Austin is *better* than Giant Gonzales" - my actual opinion that many'd go "duh" to. "TAKA Michinoku is *better* than Shawn Michaels" - my actual opinion that many would disagree with, dismiss, or even flat out laugh at. How is one more truthful than the other? Is Austin > Gonzales FACT but TAKA > Michaels is OPINION? (I mean for ring work, btw). What if someone says Gonzales > Austin? Are they not wrong? ARE they wrong? 




LilOlMe said:


> That's what Neville was doing in the Barrett RAW match, and I loved that. He even fell when he went for a move on the rope or something. It was great.
> 
> You're right, if he had to make a whole deal out of trying to get wins without flying, it'd be fun to watch from an appreciation standpoint.
> 
> ...


I don't see a problem with either side, really. I always love the idea of a recurring injury over no matter how long of a time stretch, but two weeks is fine. I mean, wrestling isn't the most legit thing but a guy can absolute hurt himself one week, feel it the next, and then get over it the week after.



LilOlMe said:


> The mood thing again with me for the Neville selling issue, btw. While your idea sounds awesome & that's why I was really enjoying his match with Barrett...I also just wasn't too into the mood for that the next week. Maybe if I felt that the wrestlers were just as invested, rather than doing it because that's just what the storyline called for...I don't know. Or maybe I was just salty because Neville wasn't in the EC, lol.


I won't put words in your mouth but you may just actually thought it wasn't fun to watch. Do you think you would enjoy it more if you were actually in a mood for limb work (or something resembling it)? This might sound dumb to some reading this but I do think wrestling that's boring can actually be pretty good. I can see the argument that if it fails to capture you or the audience it's pretty much failed to do what should be the most basic of things, though.

I like that last line b/c Henry losing the EC in 2013 got me so annoyed that I didn't notice what is a universally praised tag match that followed it. I noticed it, but I didn't care about it because I watched the PPV to maybe see Henry win. However I never gave a real opinion on it and have said this every time it's brought up. I may have technically watched it but I pretend like I didn't b/c of circumstances.





LilOlMe said:


> Erm, I re-watched it, with the knowledge that you might be dropping a big ass hammer on it. You will definitely have an issue with some things, lol, but I find the match compelling enough to recommend it anyway. For your tastes, you might not consider it a "good match", but it might be like that Eddie match where you'd consider it excellent otherwise (I think you said that you were on your way to considering an Eddie match excellent until he stopped selling something).
> 
> Kanemoto's demeanor was great, though.


Thing about me is I'll literally watch anything. Even if I know I won't like it, it's just interesting to get a scope of what something/someone is/was like. 

It was Malenko that stopped selling but yeah, there are a couple really good Eddie/Malenkos in 97 that could've have it onto my WCW list (on other one did) if Malenko didn't totally just stop selling once he got on top. 

Literally never seen Devitt so I might as well check that one too.

This is no shit - I was watching the 04 SUWA tag before Marufuji was so bad he actually crashed my computer 11 years into the future. Well, OK, the Marufuji part is a lie, but I seriously did watch the first 5 mins of that before my computer went all blue screen Y2K.



LilOlMe said:


> On another subject, I had no idea that Marufuji was VP of NOAH. From reading this article, I see why KENTA got out of dodge. It sounds like Marufuji has enormous pressure on his shoulders.
> 
> It basically sounds like if Shawn or Bret were also in the position of running the company in 95 or 96, but dealing with even more dire circumstances. Marufuji seems very loyal, if nothing else.
> 
> Also read that he's the head trainer at their DOJO, so he's got a lot on his plate. I thought of you and smiled when I read that, though.


they're just promoting ANYBODY over there AREN'T THEY jeez


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Whoa. 

I've only been skimming this lengthy diatribe from you both, yet I felt compelled to read the latest post b/c spoiler tags makes it seem important. Then I see the plug about the Steamboat/Madusa situation which comes out of a match vs Bobby Eaton that off the top of my head I can say I haven't seen and thus I need it immediately & you brought that up. b/c on paper & what moment was described, I already love it.

btw Rah got me Callihan vs Necro. THANKS FOR NOTHING.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

It's looking like it's becoming more and more of a reality that I'll be able to go to the NXT house show in Cleveland next week. I don't wanna speak too soon, but damn it I'm excited!

The card for the last (and only) time they ran in Cleveland featured Rhyno/Kalisto, Kidd/Itami, Cesaro/Balor, and Owens/Neville. :homer


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

:lmao

I forgot all about it. On that note, did you know they had another match in 2011?

Did I forget to upload something for somebody else? Speak now. I won't be offended, it was I who forgot. Don't use no "" smiley or "if you could that'd be great". No. I will. TELL ME.


I'll upload Steamboat/Eaton since I can't find it. I mean it. Thought I just got the date wrong but I was right, and here's a write-up of mine, all the way from June of 2011:



> Bobby Eaton v Ricky Steamboat (Worldwide 4/4/92)
> --I think the match itself went four or six minutes, but it’s really the post-match stuff you want here. The match is great for however long it was, the timing and execution was just perfect, and Steamboat selling a top rope knee drop by crunching his face and shivering and vibrating his arms was just uber-awesome. The ref bump is where shit really goes down. You have Madusa being a complete bitch to Steamboat, slapping him and stuff, and Steamboat gives a demented psycho Bruce Lee look and slaps her one back. Wasn’t two seconds before she was crying like a whiny hypocritical little shit baby and Steamboat apologising his absolute arse off realising he just hit someone with boobs. That distracts him enough for the rest of the Alliance to come in and wipe him left and right, they get to the concrete area and the babyfaces come to Steamboat’s aid when he’s bleeding. WCW around this time had a no-no on televised blood so they blurred it, and I have to say I kind of liked that because it made it look more violent and it gave you the feel that this was something to really be concerned about, not “hey look it’s BLOOD GUYS BLOOD ECWECWECWECWECW”. There’s blood dripped on the concrete as well and Sting’s unsurprisingly the guy to ultimately save Steamboat. Not much of a match, or nomination, but this as a whole was just glorious.


edit - here it is, actually. Video is muddy though. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6hh0c_ricky-steamboat-vs-bobby-eaton_sport


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yes/no. Saying that b/c they've had 6 singles matches vs each other; two happened in 2011. Gonna assume you know of the CZW match over the HWA match. I knew about the CZW match. Never saw it though.

Steamboat vs Eaton is nothing more than GIMME rn.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I meant one in IWA: East Coast.

http://smartmarkvideo.com/iwa-east-coast/iwa-east-coast-dvd-september-20-2011-are-you-ready-nitro-wv


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

@LilOlMe Yeah, ill sort that match out you repped me about in a couple of weeks.  Won't be near my files for a bit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I meant one in IWA: East Coast.
> 
> http://smartmarkvideo.com/iwa-east-coast/iwa-east-coast-dvd-september-20-2011-are-you-ready-nitro-wv


Of course. :lmao

Leave it to me to miss that their last match was in the same year.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Fighter Daron said:


> - Naomichi Marufuji vs Katsuhiko Nakajima - 11.02.2010





Obfuscation said:


> How low is the chance that I wouldn't hate that match when I hated their crummy GHC Championship match last year?
> 
> the knee/kicks ratio to anything else done has to be off the charts


Watched this after Bruce confirmed the link. 

Never saw their 2014 match, but I can say that this one wasn't kneey or kicky at all.

As an aside, one thing I've noticed is that Nakajima doesn't really hit his leg (or maybe he just doesn't do it well?) when he kicks, so he doesn't create the noise that most people do. Just kind of weird that he doesn't.

Match was fun. I can totally see criticism about lack of long term selling, though the limb work wasn't that extensive anyway.

However, some of those sequences were quite memorable. There was an "oh, shit" one toward the start of the match. First eight or so minutes were great. I've seen people do the "missing" sequences a lot, but somehow this was the best one to me that I've seen thus far. Their timing was SO good.

Love how Marufuji would not let Nakajima escape his arm hold at one point. Ducking to prevent any attempts at elbows; creating body space between the two so Nakajima could not back up into him; moving his legs so Nakajima could not try to take him down by the leg, etc.

None of this was showy at all, so it does show you that Marufuji does understand smart, and subtle, ring psychology when he wants to. Just wish he were more consistent in this regard for everyone's tastes. 

Gets kind of paint by numbers for about five minutes, then it gets quite enjoyable again.

Marufuji is always great at that very last second kickout. Now I see that Nakajima is good at that too.

Knew the result based on timelines, but I was still into the ending. The finishing move looked more brutal there than it normally does.




Bruce L said:


> Every match from Marufuji & KENTA's GHC junior tag title reign is ***3/4 or better (usually better). Same for Marufuji's ROH matches. The 10/29/06 match is ***** by my reckoning. *The match where he won the title from Nagata last year was amazing*, his defenses against Sekimoto and Sugiura were gold, and the Suzuki match from this year was must-see. You know what, just go to Ditch's sites, search for Marufuji, and get every match that turns up. They're all worth your time.


I was about 30 minutes into this video, but then I had to go, but yeah, I was really digging Marufuji vs. Nagata. It was more slow paced, which I expected given the age and look of Nagata, lol.

However, once again, felt like I saw & got something different out of Marufuji in this match. There was a maturity there, and an understated, yet intense, focus, without making a show of it. I credit Nagata for bringing that out of him, because I can just tell that Nagata's the type who someone wants to rise to the occasion for. Or maybe he just inspires Marufuji. 

Loving Nagata's antics, though he's not really overt with them. That move that he did to Marufuji on the apron looked legit brutal, and I lol'ed at Nagata's reaction afterward.

LOVED Marufuji slowly lifting Nagata's chin for the impending hit. I just live for shit like that.

Can't wait to watch the rest tomorrow. 

As for Marufuji's tag run, I watched these earlier today:


> Naomichi Marufuji & KENTA vs. Minoru Fujit & Ikuto Hidaka 2005 [**** 3/4 Meltzer rating]
> Naomichi Marufuji & Suzuki vs. Hashi & Akiyama 7/18/2005 [**** 1/4 Meltzer rating]


Last few minutes of the first match were sublime. Felt like it really reached a crescendo, and was just a flurry. 

KENTA's stamina is amazing, because he is just ON in closing moments. Can think of very few who are as impressive as he is toward the end of long matches. Rallies genuinely feel like rallies, and I find it impressive from a sheer physical standpoint alone. Plus, exciting.

ETA: Oh, I remember some comments about that first tag. I think it was Hidaka that does a spinning leg snap takedown of KENTA. KENTA sells it so well. He spins & falls so fast for it, that it makes a typical move look spectacular.

Also, Hidaka turning that submission hold (I think it was? Don't remember exactly) into multiple turns, was cool as well. And here I just mark a bit for a Gator Roll, lol. Cred to the person who said that Harper should do much more with that move, btw. I agree.


As for that second match, lol at the way that Marufuji pulled off his signature move there. Sold well for the big guys, and Suzuki's facial expressions are always good.

Feel like I had more comments, but I don't remember them right now.

On the topic of Suzuki, is he a bit reminiscent of Cesaro to anyone else? I felt that way when I first saw him in the singles match vs. Marufuji from early this year.

He has a very old school, yet pretty clean, style...and also his body type kind of reminds me of Cesaro a little. 

@yeah, will respond in a bit.

@Jack Evans 187, happy for you. The NXT roster seems particularly motivated right now, so I think you'll get a good show. Plus, I'm sure the crowd will be heavily into it, which makes things fun.

_ETA:_ Added some more comments about the tag team matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Also helps if Marufuji doesn't attempt any dreadful diagonal rope runs. I don't even exclusive "hate" the guy or anything, but he's another one of those dudes who tries to either do stuff that feels different or innovative, and it adds too much bad stuff when he can avoid it. I'll probably try the match vs Nakajima just to compare to the recent one which was blurrgh.

The Marufuji vs Nagata match was fine. I didn't dislike it, but I didn't care either. Really overblown & Nagata had better matches from 2014. It was better than his matches vs KENTA, Yone, & Morishima at least. As far as GHC Championship matches go. But Nagata vs Sugiura was far and away his best. I skipped the Maybach match. I couldn't be bothered. The last idk amount of minutes of Nagata vs Marufuji is all I really cared for b/c that's when Nagata started churning out the good performance. Liked Marufuji channeling Misawa for the win. Good booking on that part. Best Marufuji match over the past few years is easily the title change match vs Suzuki this year. Thought that was actually great.

And I don't feel Suzuki & Cesaro are the same. But I know why you say that. It's MiSu doing the run behind into the choke and then transferring it into the cradle piledriver. Which Cesaro does do, only into the Neutralizer. Both do similar running boots too. They really, really aren't similar though. It stops at the finisher similarity sequence.

-----------

Am I the only one who's noticing that Reigns is doing the Cyclone Kill in matches now? I think he started it out w/the rolling elbow a la Hero, only now he's doing it w/the punch. It looks better than Hero's too. He's quicker. Thought he had three good/fun matches on RAW this week too. First Barrett match I can recall giving a damn about in a long time. Reigns is on a roll.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Obfuscation said:


> Also helps if Marufuji doesn't attempt any dreadful diagonal rope runs.


Lmao, I don't mind it if the timing is right (I don't mind when Dean does it either), but I cringed hard at it in the Kanemoto match, because it was so unnecessary, because clearly neither of them had any idea of what to do after that. Or shit just got really badly communicated...



Obfuscation said:


> I don't even exclusive "hate" the guy or anything, but he's another one of those dudes who tries to either do stuff that feels different or innovative, and it adds too much bad stuff when he can avoid it.


I can see why you'd feel that way, and I do think that it's because he's genuinely coming up with stuff in the spur of the moment (more on this in a sec). While I haven't found that, IMO, much of it looks overly grotesque or spotty, I do think that it can get in the way of a consistent focus. I guess I just don't feel like he's deliberately trying to show off (I've gotten this feeling with others). I think that he genuinely has a free-flowing approach to almost all of his matches, and is very improvisational. 

I say this because there are times where it seems like you can really see the gears turning in his head. I think it was actually the Nakajima match. He gets Nakajima in a leg hold, and I think he genuinely has no idea what he wants to do next as a submission hold. Then he goes for the STF, and it just works out perfectly, because I rarely see anyone put it on that way. I don't even think that he was trying to be different...I think that he was just deciding in that moment. Most people go right into it, but the way he did it standing from behind actually made it look cooler, and I don't think that it was even intentional.

Plus, the actual hold looked great. Crisp and he had him in good, IIRC. 

Not saying that it makes it any less bad for those who don't like it. So I'm not arguing your point. Moreso just saying that I think that I know where it comes from (not necessarily from him making a concerted effort to be different...just that it's his natural approach to wrestling). And it also bothers me less...maybe because I like being authentically surprised by him during matches & having no clue what's coming next, mainly because even he seems not to, lol. I do see how that could annoy, though. Especially because it's not my usual "type" or preference, so I do get it.




Obfuscation said:


> The Marufuji vs Nagata match was fine. I didn't dislike it, but I didn't care either. Really overblown & Nagata had better matches from 2014. It was better than his matches vs KENTA, Yone, & Morishima at least. As far as GHC Championship matches go. But Nagata vs Sugiura was far and away his best.


I can see the overblown criticism, because I felt that way at first when they were taking forever with those slow chops. Then Marufuji did the chin thing, and that made it all alright for me, lol.

I will watch that Nagata vs. Sugiura match, as I'm liking Nagata's vibe from what I'm seeing.




Obfuscation said:


> And I don't feel Suzuki & Cesaro are the same. But I know why you say that. It's MiSu doing the run behind into the choke and then transferring it into the cradle piledriver. Which Cesaro does do, only into the Neutralizer. Both do similar running boots too. They really, really aren't similar though. It stops at the finisher similarity sequence.


I don't think that they're the same or even mostly alike either. I almost didn't write that, because I thought that people would take it as if I meant that they were really, really, similar. That's why I used the word reminiscent, but maybe I didn't use the word properly.

Just meant there are things that made me think of Cesaro, though they are two very different types of wrestlers. Mainly what I said, but also I feel like both have a very stripped down approach and look (though obviously Cesaro's moveset is quite extensive) at times. Can't remember if Suzuki had a towel on in his match with Marufuji, but if he did, I didn't notice, but it made me laugh when I saw that he had on one in the tag 10 years ago, because it was after I noted a bit of the Cesaro similarity to myself. 



Obfuscation said:


> I felt compelled to read the latest post b/c spoiler tags makes it seem important.


:lol


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

> I skipped the Maybach match. I couldn't be bothered.


I always kind of of go "whoa" when you say something like this Cody. :lmao Just purely because you watch a megaGODton of wrestling at any point, and any given post can be "I watched Road Wild 97, House of Hardcore 2012 and DBD IV last night. Konnan had a dystopia-bad level match w/ Jeff Jarrett." And it's like two hours later "Nagata/Maybach? Nah fuck that."

Did you ever watch House of Hardcore 2012, actually? Or at least the Sami Callihan part. Gave Rhino the best match I've seen Rhino ever have. Which I mean I haven't seen two thousand Rhino matches but it was very very good and you could make the argument it still wasn't a top 10 Callihan match of 2012. And more proof that the "Callihan is shit" people should be SHOOTED IN THE KNEECAPS.

Fuck, I just remembered I never got to see Callihan/Goldust..........


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just watched Sami Callihan vs Rhino - House of Hardcore 2012, thanks for the rec Yeah. Love that submission counter Sami did for the first Gore attempt. A really well worked match, and Rhino was great, ive wondered what more 'recent' Rhino was like, so it was a pleasant surprise.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> for what it's worth the last time I watched that match I thought it was awesome an that funnyfaces was a completely wrong weeny head. I don't remember Hulk slamming Sherri but on paper I think I'd agree with what you said there. Maybe not on the comeuppance thing (sometimes it's incredible like Steamboat getting so fucking fed up at Madusa that he hits her then panics and apologizes and sees her whimpering and it turns out she was possuming so DA could kill Steamboat......Steamboat/Eaton 4/4/92. Awesome spectacle match. @Obfatchination have you seen this?) But Sherri rolling out of the ring too early is something I'd likely be bothered by.
> 
> Also even as a face Hulk Hogan was pretty much an ASSSSHOLE. How many times did that prick rake the back? He was a sore loser in the 92 Rumble so he helped Flair eliminate Sid. Hollywood couldn't have come soon enough.


I felt like Hogan did more to Sherri, but I wasn't sure, so didn't want to say. Looked it up and:


> Hogan gets piped as well as Flair & sherri double team him. Flair with some knee drops and a suplex, and its HULK UP TIME! Clotheslines to both Flair & Sherri. Slams all around. Boot to sherri. Boot To Flair.


:lol Fucker gave her his finishing moves in the midst of a match (minus the leg drop).

It just makes the men look stupid when women are taking all of the same moves, imo. I think one of the reasons it bothered me so much was because it was in the climax of the match too. 

I just thought about it, and I hated Punk doing the submission move to Heyman during the Punk/Brock match. It takes it down every, single, time for me. Massive buzzkill. I understand that the Punk/Heyman storyline was taking precedence, and they also probably wanted to protect Punk a bit in the loss....but the focus & force on an outside participant should never be that excessive in the climax moment, IMO.

I have more thoughts on this, but will probably save it for when I can articulate it better. 

It made "sense" in the Punk storyline, but it doesn't mean I have to like it. 

If you're going into a match knowing it's going to be an overbooked mess, that's a different story. Though still can obviously irritate. 

That Steamboat reaction sounds perfect, btw.



Yeah1993 said:


> This can't apply to me b/c I honestly don't really watch movies. If I want to watch a movie it's pretty much always a comedy I'm after and even then...I don't really care about movies. I've maybe not seen 100 my whole life.


I don't either really, but lol at you responding seriously to an analogy. Well, I did ask it in a personal way, so...



Yeah1993 said:


> I suppose I'm analytical but not really........*purposely*.....?


:lol Legit lol'ed. Understood, though, and can relate most of the time. 




Yeah1993 said:


> I'm not saying that you're saying we should alter opinions based on other people's, but as jerky as it might sound, I pretty much don't think we should even keep them in mind, either.


Not sure what this is in response to, but I'll have to go back and read what you've quoted. 

As for your last line, how is that possible? I mean, even if we "shouldn't", we do, right? I just said that you've infiltrated my brain now. Doesn't mean we have to change our opinions, though. Still love Marufuji...



Yeah1993 said:


> It's like, a lot of people don't like lucha libre, and no matter how much they watch, try, or understand, they just don't think what they're watching is good. They might be thinking of someone like me while watching (b/c I might have told them about the match to see if they like it), but they won't think "he (they/whoever) thinks this is objectively good, there has to be some objective goodness in it".


For me, it's more like...people here have complained when someone works on the leg and then works on the arm later or something. I have that in mind during a match, and note that, but I just don't care. If someone has a concerted, specific, attack the entire time, I'll praise them for that, but it also just isn't important to me if they switch it up either. No matter how much people think that's important for them, it's just not for me. Anything can wear you down in a real fight or contest, and people do change approaches and go with new openings all the time in sports.

So while I'll have that criticism in mind, and maybe it'll help me understand why _they_ don't like a match because of that, it will never change the fact that that doesn't make it a bad match in my mind.

So I guess we're agreeing here?



Yeah1993 said:


> Literally never seen Devitt so I might as well check that one too.


This is shocking to me. Figured I was the last one in this thread to see him.

That match is up your alley, I think, so your first impression of Devitt will be a good one. 

You hate Orton, but good limb work + great selling + clear/defined roles + motivation = Orton/Bryan 12/16/13 & 2/3/14 RAW's. 

When you were defining the type of matches you think are good ones, I immediately thought of those.

When you finally catch up to those years, PM me your thoughts if I'm not still around anymore. :lol

Will respond to the rest of your post later. You're getting a two-parter. :laugh:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

LilOlMe said:


> I felt like Hogan did more to Sherri, but I wasn't sure, so didn't want to say. Looked it up and:
> 
> :lol Fucker gave her his finishing moves in the midst of a match (minus the leg drop).
> 
> ...


I think I understand. Sherri selling the same moves the same time as Flair makes her look on level with Flair? I sure as hell would have a problem with that. Extreme Rules 2010 - I thought Bald Punk SES McWoman kicking Rey in the stomach while he was on his hands and knees, causing him to flip around and land on his back, was silly as fuck because Punk could have done way more damage himself instead of distracting the referee.

I do love managers (and the like) getting comeuppance, but a finisher or signature move is probably overdoing it unless the show up in a neck brace for a while. 



> As for your last line, how is that possible? I mean, even if we "shouldn't", we do, right? I just said that you've infiltrated my brain now. Doesn't mean we have to change our opinions, though. Still love Marufuji...


That's badly worded, I guess. I will never meet anybody I frequently talk to online but I'm not sure for the rest of my life - well after I post on fourms - I will ever be able to watch Chavo Guerrero without thinking about his hilarious wave of detractors. Especially vivalabrave. I still laugh every time I see Chavo do a dropkick. I guess my actual point was we shouldn't consider other people's problem with things if we have no problem with it ourselves. I mean I could watch a match, love it, and someone goes "the selling sucked" and I'll go "wow, really?" and re-watch it out of curiosity, but....oh....that's what you were saying? Oh shit I just got it nvm. I would never say otherwise so I'm not sure what my point is. Maybe just that, if I was someone who actually thought the selling sucked but didn't care, I shouldn't be bothered re-watching it like that just because I know I won't care.

I think I messed my point up a little on that line. I like using examples for things so I'll bring up the HHH/Jericho LMS. I don't know if you noticed - b/c I definitely didn't, but HHH kind of no-sells the Walls a bit, probably unnoticed b/c Steph was in the ring at the time and the centre of attention at the time. I only noticed this when it was pointed out (not directly to me), and although I didn't immediately re-watch the match upon reading that criticism, I definitely noticed it on that next watch. 

"Infiltrated my brain" sounds so fantastically, deliciously evil that I refuse to dispute it. 




> For me, it's more like...people here have complained when someone works on the leg and then works on the arm later or something. I have that in mind during a match, and note that, but I just don't care. If someone has a concerted, specific, attack the entire time, I'll praise them for that, but it also just isn't important to me if they switch it up either. No matter how much people think that's important for them, it's just not for me. Anything can wear you down in a real fight or contest, and people do change approaches and go with new openings all the time in sports.


The leg/arm thing is OK to me if the leg thing fails to deliver. Just because a guy spends 10 minutes working the leg doesn't mean he should be successful because of it. If the wrestler thinks they won't get anywhere by keeping on the leg, then I don't mind. That could only possibly *truly* bother me if the leg assault is working in the assaulter's favour and they just gives up out of nowhere. 

Limb work doesn't have to "go anywhere" to me all the time. Working a limb is a strategy; strategies _can_, _do_, and _should be able to_ fail. I just need it to be presented it a way that isn't the guy with the hurt limb (or it could be ribs or whatever) suddenly getting over it.



> So while I'll have that criticism in mind, and maybe it'll help me understand why _they_ don't like a match because of that, it will never change the fact that that doesn't make it a bad match in my mind.
> 
> So I guess we're agreeing here?


Yep, understood. I've seen a bunch of posts and I'm all "you _______? Why?" purely because I'm legitimately curious why somebody thinks that way, and if it's kept in mind while watching wrestling, even if I don't agree at all, then yeah, you're right. 




> This is shocking to me. Figured I was the last one in this thread to see him.


aw yeah now you're surprised I HAVEN'T watched something. :mark: 



> You hate Orton, but good limb work + great selling + clear/defined roles + motivation = Orton/Bryan 12/16/13 & 2/3/14 RAW's.
> 
> When you were defining the type of matches you think are good ones, I immediately thought of those.
> 
> When you finally catch up to those years, PM me your thoughts if I'm not still around anymore. :lol


HILARIOUS. That's it, I'm going to infiltrate your brain some more.



> Will respond to the rest of your post later. You're getting a two-parter. :laugh:


wait, the code for that smiley is ":laugh"? That doesn't look like a laugh. Or if it does it's the one frame of a GIF where you ask somebody "guess what this person was doing."

edit - @Rah we must do everything we can to find Callihan/Goldust. Tagging you in the hope that you may already have it.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

Erik. said:


> I think the finishing moves are set in stone for Reigns now though to be honest. He may perhaps change things up if he turns heel as his moves, especially the punch is over with the crowd. Don't get me wrong, we all like brutal looking striking moves, Reigns for me has some of the best strikes in the company in my view, reminiscent of the Undertaker almost, just not too keen on the SP as his finisher.


Don't remember Reigns pinning someone with the Superman Punch.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Yeah1993 said:


> edit - @Rah we must do everything we can to find Callihan/Goldust. Tagging you in the hope that you may already have it.


PWS Fightmare Before Xmas 2012

I don't have it, and I've been trying to source it for a while. I've messaged the company about how I could get a hold of the match, and I had no response. They only sell their 2012 shows as a pack for $75 (last I checked) so they can get fucked. Could try XWT but I can't find the request thread.

I almost got their Best of 2012 (or whatever) DVD after misreading its listing. The Callihan match they chose was against Cabana. This is 2012 we're talking about, not 2007, Cabana should no longer be given praise for the atrocious act he calls wrestling.


----------



## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

:dahell I stick my head in for the first time in a long time and there's OTHER WRESTLING discussion in the DVD thread of General WWE?

I thought after searching a keyword or two I'd find some thoughts on it but trekking through those posts is a bit of a bother.

What do people here think of Banks/Lynch from Unstoppable?
Where does it rank in MOTYCs from WWE/NXT for you, including male divisions?
And where does it rank worldwide for you, including only women?


Thanks.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Im not sure how it compares to other women's matches, say for example AJW ones, but personally i consider it certainly one of the best matches of the year, regardless of the gender. First time i watched it i was shocked TBH, i read the hype, but was still surprised it really is that good.

In terms of an all time classic though, i can't really comment as it's rare i watch Diva matches nowadays, unless it's NXT, and ive only seen selected 'best' AJW matches too, so.

So what im trying to say is; Yeah, it was fucking great.  I even uploaded the damn match i thought it was that worth it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

OXITRON said:


> :dahell I stick my head in for the first time in a long time and there's OTHER WRESTLING discussion in the DVD thread of General WWE?.


I think the reason we can get away w/ that stuff now is *because* people don't stick their heads in here very often. :lol And Cody is a mod.



Rah said:


> PWS Fightmare Before Xmas 2012
> 
> I don't have it, and I've been trying to source it for a while. I've messaged the company about how I could get a hold of the match, and I had no response. They only sell their 2012 shows as a pack for $75 (last I checked) so they can get fucked. Could try XWT but I can't find the request thread.
> 
> I almost got their Best of 2012 (or whatever) DVD after misreading its listing. The Callihan match they chose was against Cabana. This is 2012 we're talking about, not 2007, Cabana should no longer be given praise for the atrocious act he calls wrestling.


I found the show on it's own on some sites, but $15 USD (which is more in AUD) + probably an ungodly amount of shipping is too much for one match. Sad thing is I've found a couple matches from the show on YT and not that one. Someone uploaded Tito Santana v. MANTAUR.

Y'know as somebody who watched Sami in 2012 go an hour with Drake Younger (I guy I don't think I'd ever seen before), I don't *really* care to see him against Cabana. Can't be worse than that fish-brain retard Chuck Taylor selling Sami's stuff like a comedy act, though. Callihan should've improvised and Lesnar/Holly'd him.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

OXITRON said:


> :dahell I stick my head in for the first time in a long time and there's OTHER WRESTLING discussion in the DVD thread of General WWE?
> 
> I thought after searching a keyword or two I'd find some thoughts on it but trekking through those posts is a bit of a bother.
> 
> ...


Thought it was excellent. Got a standing ovation from me after the match. Gave it **** which was the highest rating I've ever given a WWE and/or NXT women's match. It's outside of my top 5 atm, but it's one of only 17 matches worldwide I've thrown 4* or higher at. Great work from those two young ladies.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Late on the finisher discussion...

I don't have an either/or approach to them - most all have something to offer. Like, if I don't already know what a wrestler uses as a finish and they nail an awesome Spinebuster down the stretch, I get a whiff of surprise on a kickout. It's more about excellent execution at the right moment of a match. Build to it, and most things work for me. Have a little swagger or otherwise adding a newness to it helps also. At the same time, I also like MMA stuff because it's already an established, credible finish 

It's more about expectations. HBK can jumping piledrive somebody, but if he hasn't hit a Superkick, I don't really think the match can end with anything else but maybe a well placed rollup. But if Dolph or Harper nails a nasty Superkick, do you really think it's over? Because expectations. That's also why I don't mind finisher kickouts either. And Austin needs to quit that crying over the DDT with all the Superkicks aired on a weekly basis. 

Most general rules I can try to think of have exceptions. Am I going to trash a Burning Hammer because Kobashi needs 20-30+ seconds to set it up? Regarding only 300+lbers or massive arm guys throwing Lariats - Nigel McGuinness and Dean Ambrose. There's a wild 'cracking whip' to the delivery that can make it special despite size, imo. Not to mention Lariats actually hurt more than most moves in wrestling when done correctly:lol 

I'm with RW on a sort of rubric of things that can make it awesome. Things are just awesome in different ways Personally, I like anything that's original/creative, that also contains DAT aesthetic beauty. I don't care for a lot of the convoluted stuff, but for "newer" moves, something like an Angle Slam or an original GTS are good examples of what I mean. I remember being blown away as a kid by the West Coast Pop. It's kind of crazy to think there was wrestling before a Lariat or a Moonsault. And guys who created/perfected those moves should be more recognized imo, but now I'm just rambling.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Yeah1993 said:


> I found the show on it's own on some sites, but $15 USD (which is more in AUD) + probably an ungodly amount of shipping is too much for one match.


I'll have a look for any digital downloads of the show. I do not and will not trust DVD shipping to my country, so that's out. Tweeted them, again. They simply replied:



> @Rowdy_Rahddy you can go to http://ProWrestlingSyndicate.com and buy the 2012 box set in our store


And you can go and get fucked. Surely it isn't much to offer a single show within the boxset, or to offer a single match distribution? You're not going to get a single buy if I have to pick up an overpriced catalog from a promotion that books some awful matches.




> Someone uploaded Tito Santana v. MANTAUR.


Winner










OXITRON said:


> :dahell I stick my head in for the first time in a long time and there's OTHER WRESTLING discussion in the DVD thread of General WWE?
> 
> I thought after searching a keyword or two I'd find some thoughts on it but trekking through those posts is a bit of a bother.
> 
> ...


1) Tremendous. Watched it twice, back-to-back (first with a fresh mind, then after reading reviews/comments from Cal's site to pick up on little things I missed)

2) It's second behind Lesnar/Reigns

3) Including only women? It's the only women's match I bothered watching, so that's a bit unfair. It's top 3 regardless of gender. I don't think anything will change that order, either. I didn't think TJPerkins vs Timothy Thatcher was a clear-cut MotY that I had hoped it would be (and didn't build well to the spots they called back to from their 2013 match), but I still have Thatcher/Chris Hero to get to that may shake things up.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I always kind of of go "whoa" when you say something like this Cody. :lmao Just purely because you watch a megaGODton of wrestling at any point, and any given post can be "I watched Road Wild 97, House of Hardcore 2012 and DBD IV last night. Konnan had a dystopia-bad level match w/ Jeff Jarrett." And it's like two hours later "Nagata/Maybach? Nah fuck that."
> 
> Did you ever watch House of Hardcore 2012, actually? Or at least the Sami Callihan part. Gave Rhino the best match I've seen Rhino ever have. Which I mean I haven't seen two thousand Rhino matches but it was very very good and you could make the argument it still wasn't a top 10 Callihan match of 2012. And more proof that the "Callihan is shit" people should be SHOOTED IN THE KNEECAPS.
> 
> Fuck, I just remembered I never got to see Callihan/Goldust..........


:lmao

Konnan vs Jarrett in 1997 really may have been the worst pairing WCW could have given me around that time.

I normally try to watch all of the championship matches from various promotions each year, but after being disappointed by so much in the GHC Championship picture & not caring much for Maybach, in general, I couldn't (and still haven't) mustered up the interest to sit here for 20+ minutes for a match I can have a good chance at not caring for. It's probably not even going to be the worst thing from NOAH, let alone 2014 I'd see, but ehhhhhhhhh.

Nah. Never saw the Rhino match. I haven't seen much from HOH despite a few matches sounding worth a look. Looking up this card rn. Scott Steiner vs Luke Gallows happens. jfc. Mike Knox in the main event too. Oh, but Carlito is there. FUCK.

Never seen any of his stuff from PWS circa 2012, either. That's where he worked vs Goldust. There's a Steen match in the mix too & a tag vs Muta. Shiiiit.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Steen/Callihan is online, at least.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

OXITRON said:


> :dahell I stick my head in for the first time in a long time and there's OTHER WRESTLING discussion in the DVD thread of General WWE?
> 
> I thought after searching a keyword or two I'd find some thoughts on it but trekking through those posts is a bit of a bother.
> 
> ...


1) I'd also, like yourself, give it 4 stars. 
2) Might be the best, competing with Owens/Cena for WWE MOTYC. 
3) I'm not too familiar with womens wrestling worldwide to be honest, but it's the best I have seen out of all the womens matches I have watched.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Muta tag: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwTQn_35sb4


If you remind me I might be able to get the Rhino match up. "Might" only b/c there's a possibility I don't still have it.


I did a google search and unless the dates are fucked, there're 2 Nagata/Maybach's from 2014. jeez bro get on it. How behind are you, scrub? If you can't keep up you will get left behind, and deservedly so.

who the fuck is maybach, anyway???



[hide]I looked on torrents for Sami/Goldust or the show it's on. No dice.[/hide]


also found this: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/40308113-post3068.html


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

OXITRON said:


> :dahell I stick my head in for the first time in a long time and there's OTHER WRESTLING discussion in the DVD thread of General WWE?
> 
> I thought after searching a keyword or two I'd find some thoughts on it but trekking through those posts is a bit of a bother.
> 
> ...



Yea, we run the whole spectrum of wrestling promotions in here. Along with WWE/WCW/ECW/NXT we get into AJPW, NJPW, ROH, PWG, etc. No reason to limit what we discuss to just WWE because this is one of the only places on the Internet where you will never get into a flame war or get insulted for thinking a certain way. Unless your Cal, the ginger, because he doesn't have a soul so you can say whatever you want about him 


As for Banks/Lynch....

1. I personally thought it was absolutely phenomenal, it's my #3 for WWE MotY right now behind Owens/Cena (#1) and Brock/Reigns (#2 ).
2. It's the best women's match I've personally seen in a WWE ring.
3. Outside of matches that include Manami Toyoda and Aja Kong, it's one of the best women's matches I've seen period. Only a SHIMMER match between Awesome Kong and Mschif might be better, from what I have seen.
4. Nakamura/Ibushi from WK9 is my worldwide MotY right now, but I haven't seen the last 2-3 months worth of NJPW shows so I'm not up to date on that. Okada/Tanahashi from WK9 would be my #2 MotY worldwide, then Cena/Owens, etc.


----------



## White Glove Test (Jun 19, 2007)

Bret Hart revealed on the Ross Report that they are in the early stages of an Owen Hart DVD. He has made it very clear that Owen's widow is totally against this dvd (she wants to erase Owens history in wrestling) but Bret had stated that is was very greedy of her and that there are a ton of wrestlers/people in the business who miss Owen and not to mention there is a whole generation of fans who never got to see his greatness.

I for one and overly excited for this. This should have been made almost immediately following his death, but I understand why it took so long.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone seen the 1989 WCW Timeline w/ Jim Cornette? Just wondered if it's any good, saying that it's Cornette, so i assume it will be.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I have and it is .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I've been looking for that Cornette WWF 1997 timeline for AGES. Still can't find it. So far I've seen the Bret Hart WWF 1992 Timeline, the Vader WCW 1993 Timeline, and the Diesel WWF 1995 Timeline. Outside of the Cornette 1997 one which I've heard is fantastic and the Cornette 1989 one which I didn't know existed until now, are there any others?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Out of interest, what's the date for that Kong/Mschif match?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Brock said:


> Out of interest, what's the date for that Kong/Mschif match?







April 7, 2007 

One of my most favourite matches of all time. Any excuse to pimp it/share it, I will.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Was a little bit underwhelmed by Cena/Owens.

Went into it with really high expectations because I love both of them and everyone was praising it which is always setting yourself up for a fall. I still liked it but ****1/2 which I've seen thrown at it is really excessive IMO.

***1/4.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I've been looking for that Cornette WWF 1997 timeline for AGES. Still can't find it. So far I've seen the Bret Hart WWF 1992 Timeline, the Vader WCW 1993 Timeline, and the Diesel WWF 1995 Timeline. Outside of the Cornette 1997 one which I've heard is fantastic and the Cornette 1989 one which I didn't know existed until now, are there any others?


I can have the cornette 1997 one online tonight for ya . There are tons more btw, WWF/E http://kayfabecommentaries.com/TL_Main.html, WCW http://kayfabecommentaries.com/TW_Main.html, and ECW http://kayfabecommentaries.com/TE_Main.html.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

So Bruce Tharpe announced that the NWA is releasing their own streaming service. For $8/month, there's a good chance that this service will be filled with more goldmines than the WWE Network.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Big Cal's World said:


> I can have the cornette 1997 one online tonight for ya . There are tons more btw, WWF/E http://kayfabecommentaries.com/TL_Main.html, WCW http://kayfabecommentaries.com/TW_Main.html, and ECW http://kayfabecommentaries.com/TE_Main.html.


Man that would be AWESOME. I don't care what everyone else says about gingers, you're alright in my book


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

1997 and 1995 are far and the best ones imo.


----------



## TomTom94 (Oct 18, 2013)

DAY #1 of KLIQ WEEK! 



> — Shawn Michaels & Diesel vs. Razor Ramon & 1-2-3 Kid
> Action Zone • October 30, 1994
> 
> — Survivor Series Elimination Match
> ...


here's hoping they don't add shawn vs razor at WM10. They love putting that match on every dvd.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Set it worth buying for that Action Zone tag alone.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> Steen/Callihan is online, at least.


:mark:



Yeah1993 said:


> Muta tag: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwTQn_35sb4
> 
> 
> If you remind me I might be able to get the Rhino match up. "Might" only b/c there's a possibility I don't still have it.
> ...


I knew we briefly touched on the Muta match once. Still forgot. Too much wrestling on the brain.

"MIGHT" I feel like I MIGHT have seen Callihan vs Rhino, actually. I recall some scuffling on the outside. That's extremely vague, I know. Maybe that was Callihan vs MVP.

Ha. You're right. There was a terrible Nagata vs Maybach match on the first NOAH show of 2014. That's probably the main reason why I have no interest in their championship match that was twice the length.

This is Maybach: http://www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=3473

Depends if you saw it or not, but you probably didn't b/c dammit Jheri, he was one of the 8 dudes in Kobashi's retirement match. Only guy w/a mask on. I tried to morph this into a Muta joke. Couldn't think of anything.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Fighter Daron said:


> Don't remember Reigns pinning someone with the Superman Punch.


08/06/2015 - vs. Kofi Kingston (Raw)


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Bruce L said:


> The match where [Marufuji] won the title from Nagata last year was amazing, his defenses against Sekimoto and Sugiura were gold, and the Suzuki match from this year was must-see. You know what, just go to Ditch's sites, search for Marufuji, and get every match that turns up. They're all worth your time.


Watched all three of these and enjoyed them all.

Already commented on most of the Nagata match, and the rest of it was just as good.

That _Marufuji vs. Sekimoto 10/12/14 match_ was probably Marufuji's finest, in terms of coherence & complete storytelling. The layout of the match was perfect.

At first I wasn't sure I'd be into it, mainly because I felt that I wasn't getting much from Sekimoto personality-wise. Then suddenly Sekimoto started displaying more and more intensity, and I was totally drawn in.

The match felt very cinematic. The chops were there for a specific purpose, and reiterated my aggravation with how much Americans just spam chops with no real investment, because they have nothing else to do. Here it was a great storytelling device. 

Felt that Marufuji made a concerted effort to really put over Sekimoto strong here, including after the match. He worked the match in Sekimoto's way, and it really displayed him.


_The Marufuji vs. Sugiura 12/6/2014_ match was hard hitting. The piledriver on the _very_ edge of the apron was sick. Sugiura's spear through the ropes on Marufuji was great to watch, mainly due to the impact of Sugiura not even catching him. In Vince's WWE, they would never, ever, get away with that. Marufuji hitting the guardrail made it look so much better than Big E's spears look on his opponents, due to Big E having to catch them.

Don't know if it's maturity or just these opponents he's facing, but Marufuji seems to be transitioning his style into more gritty opuses. 


Also watched _Marufuji vs. KENTA 11/13/04_ (first time they've faced off, I think?) and it was probably their most "fun" match that I've seen. Definitely their shortest. 

The part where they were upside down and hitting each other was cool and is a moment that stays seared into memory (wrestling should have cool, fun, "moments"), and KENTA kicking Fuji in the face from behind while talking to the ref was great, lol. Feel like someone should have thought of that before. Or maybe they have and I've just never seen it?

Liked how Fuji started all cavalierly on the ropes like giving a subtle "no big deal" vibe, until of course, he realized he had to start taking it with the same seriousness as KENTA was taking it. Nothing loud or obvious about this switch up in demeanor, just a subtle thing. 

That botch at the end was horrible, though, lol. It's the worst when there's NO way you can cover it. 


Thank you @Bruce L & @Fighter Daron for all of the recs. They were all very helpful, and I had a good time watching them.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yeah1993, I'm using your "spoiler tag for response" idea. Here's my response:



Spoiler: spoiler






Yeah1993 said:


> aw damn I hate doing that to people. :lmao


I now feel obligated to point out what others consider a detraction. 



Yeah1993 said:


> I think I understand. Sherri selling the same moves the same time as Flair makes her look on level with Flair?


And also, it's like well of course Flair better get pinned, because if not, it's crazy that Sherri's not _dead_ from those moves. 



Yeah1993 said:


> That's badly worded, I guess. I will never meet anybody I frequently talk to online but I'm not sure for the rest of my life - well after I post on fourms - I will ever be able to watch Chavo Guerrero without thinking about his hilarious wave of detractors.


That's how I feel about people like Mark Henry and Big Show having a fandom here.




Yeah1993 said:


> aw yeah now you're surprised I HAVEN'T watched something. :mark:


I almost started that sentence with "I shouldn't be, but..." Just seems like an obvious name to have seen _ something._ You said you haven't watched any post-2011 Puro, though, so it makes sense.

lmao at using the network for 1993 RAWs and not NXT, though. You and I are, like, the only two people on this board who would do that, I feel.

I guess you shouldn't feel bad. It took me over a year into watching wrestling again, before I even went back and watched those Taker/Shawn WM matches for the first time. 




Yeah1993 said:


> wait, the code for that smiley is ":laugh"? That doesn't look like a laugh. Or if it does it's the one frame of a GIF where you ask somebody "guess what this person was doing."


I hate opening the thing for more smileys, so I'm always surprised by what comes up when I type in what I think should be an obvious term. :lol




Yeah1993 said:


> It's like, a lot of people don't like lucha libre, and no matter how much they watch, try, or understand, they just don't think what they're watching is good. They might be thinking of someone like me while watching (b/c I might have told them about the match to see if they like it), but they won't think "he (they/whoever) thinks this is objectively good, there has to be some objective goodness in it".


I think that what will happen is that they may be more apt to _try_ to see something good about it due to the things that you point out. Vice versa with the bad (though they still may not agree or care). It's one of the reasons why mbs can be a buzzkill. The negativity can permeate, IMO. I absolutely enjoyed wrestling more when I stopped coming to the board. 

However, it can also give you a new appreciation of things too, which is the plus side.

ETA: On the negativity point, I think that it can create a feeling of having to (or feeling like you have to) justify, rather than just enjoying. This happens in life too. I was really negative on a RAW a few weeks ago. The one where Ambrose came in in a police van. I was talking to a casual fan the next day, and since I am aware of what a buzzkill negativity can be -- especially when it's relentless -- I make an effort not to be that way around casuals, who tend to just enjoy the show more. Well, I was being really negative this time, and I could just see their enthusiasm dying down, and they were like "well, I liked it because it was light, and Ambrose makes it work..." But they were saying it in a way that was very much in an almost apologetic voice, and like now they were having to try to justify it in their own heads. 

It just shouldn't be that way. They should like what they like. I don't like that my negativity made them question whether it was "good" or not, when clearly it was good to them until I came along. See what I mean? 



Yeah1993 said:


> I don't want to keep repeating myself, but, yeah, I don't think about what other wrestlers think about. I have definitely thought "if they actually wrestle shouldn't they know better than anybody"? *The thing is, would my opinion change if I were a wrestler? No way in hell.* I might consider some more impressive that they do some crazy ass moves without injuring anybody, but, no, I highly doubt I'd change.


Great point. Though I guess we can't say that for sure. I mean, would someone like ADR really love Cena if he never worked with him? I don't think so, but I could be wrong. 




Yeah1993 said:


> Of course, but again taking that into extreme consideration would mean nobody could ever be objective which means the words "better", "worse", "good", "bad", etc could never actually be used. It's something that people use all the time without anybody blinking an eye if it's consensus. "Steve Austin is *better* than Giant Gonzales" - my actual opinion that many'd go "duh" to. "TAKA Michinoku is *better* than Shawn Michaels" - my actual opinion that many would disagree with, dismiss, or even flat out laugh at. How is one more truthful than the other? Is Austin > Gonzales FACT but TAKA > Michaels is OPINION? (I mean for ring work, btw). What if someone says Gonzales > Austin? Are they not wrong? ARE they wrong?


Good point, can't really argue. I guess that some things seem so obvious that people take it as a given. It still is an opinion though, if anyone wants to take up the case for Giant Gonzales, lol.




Yeah1993 said:


> I won't put words in your mouth but you may just actually thought it wasn't fun to watch.
> 
> Do you think you would enjoy it more if you were actually in a mood for limb work (or something resembling it)?


Probably.

Yes.

Limb work can be boring, which is why I guess I don't take it as seriously when someone doesn't sell it for too long or changes course as far as their approach. Or more specifically, I feel like it's mostly used as simply a time filling device, even if it makes sense (said this before), so it's just not such an important piece to me when I _know_ it's not something that's truly driving the wrestlers as people or as characters. I guess that's a negative on the wrestlers, and I can see why people would be like "well, it should be!" but I guess where I differ is I feel that it is commonplace with maybe over 90% of wrestling. 

I just don't view it as such an inherent thing in a great match, because it just hasn't been in so many heralded matches. 

I wish I had more time to think about how I really want to say it, because I don't think that I'm articulating it exactly right right now. 

Btw, I didn't even notice or think about Cena "no-selling" the leg work in his match vs. Michaels at WM23 'til it was pointed out here. So I guess that says something?

At the same time, if he sold it really great, I would have definitely noticed _that_ and praised him for it. 

This wasn't an exceptionally great selljob, but I remember someone here said that Henry "carried" Orton to a great match in 2011. I'm assuming this was the NOC match. Don't know if that was a purposely OTT comment or not, but couldn't have disagreed more, because it was Orton looking like a rag doll...which he usually never does...which helped make Henry look so great and dominant. Orton, I believe, had a true investment, and that's when you can always tell the difference. Not just with him, but with wrestlers in general.




Yeah1993 said:


> This might sound dumb to some reading this but I do think wrestling that's boring can actually be pretty good. I can see the argument that if it fails to capture you or the audience it's pretty much failed to do what should be the most basic of things, though.


Despite what I just said about limb work being boring sometimes, I do agree with you that boring wrestling can be good. I have a higher tolerance & even like for it than most, I think, generally.



Yeah1993 said:


> Thing about me is I'll literally watch anything. Even if I know I won't like it, it's just interesting to get a scope of what something/someone is/was like.


That's a positive, and that's probably why you're known for shitting on matches eloquently, lol. 

The curiosity trait is a good one.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What do people think of Juventud Guerrera? Watched this:


> Naomichi Marufuji & KENTA vs. Marvin & Juventud Guerrera 11/1/03 [**** 1/2 Meltzer Rating]


...and I was impressed with Guerrero. Seemed to really know how to work a crowd, and had good personality.

I read this article about his release from WWE, which I'm sure most people already know about. Made me laugh, though, because I could totally envision all of that, just based on the way he carried himself in that match that I watched.

Are people positive or negative on him?

He worked really well together with Marvin, which is especially impressive because I don't think that they were a long-term team, were they? They worked as one quite a bit, a la The Rockers.

Just a wild guess says that he was good/decent in WCW, sucked in WWE, and there's gonna be at least two or three people who hate him with a burning passion.

All these guesses just based on one match, lol.


ETA: Added a few more things in there, Yeah1993.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

LilOlMe said:


> was probably Marufuji's finest, in terms of coherence & complete storytelling.


So it went something like?:



Spoiler: ?














:mark: :mark:






> Yeah1993, I'm using your "spoiler tag for response" idea. Here's my response:



of course, I purposely infiltrated that into your brain. 




Spoiler: spoiler






> I almost started that sentence with "I shouldn't be, but..." Just seems like an obvious name to have seen _ something._ You said you haven't watched any post-2011 Puro, though, so it makes sense.


Hell I barely even watched anything from 2011. Takayama/KENTA happened in January and was really good despite Takayama being broken down and then IDK what happens after that. Been telling myself to hit up Dick Togo's 2010s run run for years but I am me and I am whatever I say I am.



> lmao at using the network for 1993 RAWs and not NXT, though. You and I are, like, the only two people on this board who would do that, I feel.


Watching wrestling live is a thing I am often not a fan of, probably because who the hell knows if I'm in the mood. The amount of live PPVs I've seen can be prob be counted on two hands. Even weekly shows it's like...there's a schedule for watching them? Ahhhhhh. I also have to realllly be in the mood for full shows in general to even watch those (WCW syndies usually being the exception). Yes, the 2010 PPV thing was NOT a good idea.



> I think that what will happen is that they may be more apt to _try_ to see something good about it due to the things that you point out. Vice versa with the bad (though they still may not agree or care). It's one of the reasons why mbs can be a buzzkill. The negativity can permeate, IMO. *I absolutely enjoyed wrestling more when I stopped coming to the board.* I


Seriously!? That's....kinda awful, just reading it on paper. I mean not awful because "you should enjoy wrestling bawdds fook off", but kinda like I feel I'm basically contributing to a decline in wrestling interest for somebody. Not me exclusively, I guess.



> Limb work can be boring, which is why I guess I don't take it as seriously when someone doesn't sell it for too long or changes course as far as their approach. Or more specifically, I feel like it's mostly used as simply a time filling device, even if it makes sense (said this before), so it's just not such an important piece to me when I _know_ it's not something that's truly driving the wrestlers as people or as character. I guess that's a negative on the wrestlers, and I can see why people would be like "well, it should be!" but I guess where I differ is I feel that it is commonplace with maybe over 90% of wrestling.
> 
> I just don't view it as such an inherent thing in a great match, because it just hasn't been in so many heralded matches.


Cena/Batista at ER (what the fuck have I done to myself? all of my examples are from 2010 WWE....) had a random leg bit. I was immediately unhappy when they cut it out because Cena was selling it tremendously and, of course, I love that stuff. I also got over it immediately because, IDK, it was like "who cares?" Cena gave a hint or two that the leg was still bothering him for a minute after that so there wasn't a no-selling thingy, and Batista didn't just "GIVE UP" while he was on top - Cena fought back to end it. If I was being 3000% honest I think Cena could've sold it a little better because his running shoulder block things don't scream "ow mah leg". Still it wasn't egregious enough and again he 'kicked' and shit after it to see if his leg worked. I love when limb work is the central part of the match but sometimes it just isn't, when they 'tease' it (for lack of a better word), and that doesn't bother me either.


"Limbwork can be boring" is true, BUT, I think one of the reason I love limbwork is because is rarely ever is boring to me. I can scarcely think of an example. Maybe Malenko/Rey or something, but that's overshadowed by the fact Malenko works Rey's limb in the first place - on Rey's WCW debut where you want Rey to DAZZLE you. Not go "ow wait no I can't" every two seconds. 

There could be any given example of boring limbwork on any wrestling show happening by anybody at any time so that whole "is rarely boring to me" is probably way less true than I like it to be, but I guess I mean matches that aren't like two minutes long or anything. Or sooooomething.

note= I'm using "*limb*work" to not just mean limbs, FWIW. Back, neck, eye even.....I think Aja Kong worked individual fingers. 




> This wasn't an exceptionally great selljob, but I remember someone here said that Henry "carried" Orton to a great match in 2011. I'm assuming this was the NOC match. Don't know if that was a purposely OTT comment or not, but couldn't have disagreed more, because it was Orton looking like a rag doll...which he usually never does...which helped make Henry look so great and dominant. Orton, I believe, had a true investment, and that's when you can always tell the difference. Not just with him, but with wrestlers in general.


That was Henry's match to me for sure but he was untouchable at that time and I completely thought Orton was really good. I think before that Henry had looked more like a monster in his career, but not ever more like a main event-level monster. Felt like Orton was told - "do one thing - actually make him seem like King Kong." He totally delivered. I was actually legitimately surprised.




> That's a positive, and that's probably why you're *known for shitting on matches eloquently, lol. *
> 
> The curiosity trait is a good one.


Thanks. :lmao





> What do people think of Juventud Guerrera? Watched this:



Definitely a Juvi fan. Rocked it pretty much everywhere from 95-98 (AAA, ECW, WCW, prob some shitty indy I've never heard of), and I think was still contributing positively to big ass tag matches in Mexcio in 2001. Worked TNA as well; has a well-like match w/ Chris Sabin in 2003 (got ****1/2 from Meltzer IIRC. I think I liked it), and some of those threeways/fourways/whatever involved him. One with a ladder or something too. I haven't really gone into great 'depth' to watch his WWE stuff, but that Kid Kash match he got fired for is actually pretty friggin awesome. I might not be remembering right, but I think it was a LIMB MATCH!!!! :mark: Not really paid to much attention to his career after that, but apparently a few years ago he was a horrendously shitty wrestler. S'only what I've read, though. 

Shouldn't be a surprise to you, but I really didn't like the 03 Juvi NOAH tag at all. I specifically remember the DVD I bought it on started glitching and bugging out so I missed the last few minutes, and I was honest-to-God relieved.


EDIT - FUCK didn't see the edit. I'll get on it soon.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

can someone tell me a wcw ppv from 1999-2000 that was decent/good? thanks 

i've heard good things about spring stampede 1999, so ill probably go with that


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Just finished watching Rock/Cena Twice In A Lifetime for the chuckles.

Jesus, its bad as soon as the bell rings. Garbage match, easily the worst match my boy Rock was ever part of.

Not only that, the post-match stuff on the ramp was cringe. Fans weren't buyng it, Rock could tell it was bullshit, and Cena had the most irritating shit-eating smirk on his face that just made him even more obnoxious.

Rock/Cena I was ten times better, and even that wasn't exactly stellar. It had the big-match, special vibe which helped. Second match is trash.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah Spring Stampede is the one to go for. (Y)

Blitzkrieg/Guerrera is fantastic, the four way main event is fun enough, Rey/Kidman is also good, Hak/Bigelow is fun and the Malenko/Benoit tag is excellent from what I remember.

Think I may just dig it out and watch it myself later lol.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

admiremyclone said:


> Just finished watching Rock/Cena Twice In A Lifetime for the chuckles.
> 
> Jesus, its bad as soon as the bell rings. Garbage match, easily the worst match my boy Rock was ever part of.
> 
> ...


in before rock vs cena 3


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

KENNY said:


> in before rock vs cena 3


Lord no. Don't do this to us.


----------



## TomTom94 (Oct 18, 2013)

DAY #2 of KLIQ WEEK!


> http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/kliq-week-mani-mohtadi-talks-wwe-dvd-interview/89797/
> — Razor Ramon vs. The Kid
> RAW • May 17, 1993
> 
> ...


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Always been a fan of Juventud, even when I was a youngster. Dude was my favorite wrestler in WCW/nWo Revenge thanks to the sick moveset he had and the four finishers you could use with him. Rey Mysterio once said that Juvi was one of the best wrestlers he worked with, mainly because he knew exactly where to be for high risk maneuvers. He can be sloppy at times and he is a dumbass, but when Juvi is on point and hitting his moves, he's a blast to watch.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

At least he isn't Psicosis who was fired for stealing a car with a water gun. And he didn't want to work with Juvi because of HIS attitude?


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Brock said:


> Yeah Spring Stampede is the one to go for. (Y)
> 
> Blitzkrieg/Guerrera is fantastic, the four way main event is fun enough, Rey/Kidman is also good, Hak/Bigelow is fun and the Malenko/Benoit tag is excellent from what I remember.
> 
> Think I may just dig it out and watch it myself later lol.


Nearly word for word what I was going to say. Will also add that if you're a DDP fan it's a pretty cool to see the show because what he did really was pretty impressive. 

I was checking out WWE's Youtube channel and watched some of the matches they have up there. 

_Raw September 9th, 2013_
*Goldust vs. Randy Orton*

I remember watching when this aired and it really is an amazing match. Goldust is fighting for his family and it clearly shows here. He throws everything he has at Orton early and it was working but before he’s able to get some momentum Orton just rolls out of the ring. I’m pretty sure there was a full commercial break where Orton just stalled the whole time. The crowd was in a frenzy and it was just a great job of Orton being a heel. He simply refused to let Goldust get in sustained offense but he let him get in enough to get the crowd going from time to time. And then Goldust does make a comeback and the building explodes. We all know Goldust hasn’t been in the WWE in years and for just a brief moment you could believe that he was going to beat the WWE champion and it was an amazing moment. Orton the proceeds to rip out the hearts of everyone watching. The story in this match is absolutely amazing and it was conveyed perfectly. Goldust literally comes from obscurity to fight the world champion and he was fighting for more than just himself and everyone in the crowd believed in him. If you didn’t want to give the guy hug after the match I don’t know what’s wrong with you. 
******


_World Heavyweight Championship Match Smackdown August or September, 2006_
*King Booker(c) w/Sharmell vs. Batista *

I wasn’t actually planning to watch this but it went to autoplay after the previous match ended so I’ll guess I’ll just go with it. Not a bad match, about 10 minutes or so long and it was fun. Batista is just a brute to start things out. Maybe a brute isn’t the best word to describe him actually since he had some focus early and everything he did was focused on the ribs of Booker. Sharmell gets a distraction and Booker takes control. I really liked the initial beatdown and I loved how him and Sharmell acted. They carry themselves like royalty but at times we see their true colors. Bastista gets his comeback going and it gets cut short soon after by some interference. Fun match. 
***½ *


_Raw November 7th, 1994_
*Bret Hart and The British Bulldog vs. Owen Hart and Jim Neidhart* 

Quality stuff, which comes to little surprise really. Bret and the Bulldog start things off with a bang and both the Anvil and Owen sell like crazy. It doesn’t last too long and a bulk of the match ends up being Bulldog being isolated. It was well worked and Owen is great at working this way because he’s funny and does cool stuff while being a heel and controlling a match. The tag is built well and the pace finally picks up when Bret gets in. I wish the match has lasted longer after the hot tag but I understand the booking. Bret was the champion and they kept him looking strong. He kicked a ton of ass to start things off, some heel tactics made you worry, but him and Bulldog overcome it all to get the win. Lots of fun.
**** *


_Elimination Match Smackdown November, 1999:_
*Shane McMahon, The Rock, Steve Austin, and Kane vs. D-Generation X *

The pacing was fast and furious with eliminations coming at a steady stream. I was really surprised with how much more over the Rock was than Austin in this match. Anyway, DX cheated a lot and managed to get to an early lead and then Austin and Rock started kicking ass. Vince gets involved, weapons are used, and it’s your typical Attitude Era wild fun. I wish Rock was a little less sloppy as he did a few things that looked really bad but other than that I liked the match. 
***¾* 


_Smackdown, October 15, 2010_
*Edge vs. Dolph Ziggler*

Ziggler comes out as the heel but he doesn’t really work as a heel. The match honestly reminded me of some indy matches that I see which isn’t the worst thing. They kept the pace up and they tried to do as much stuff as they could in 10 minutes. That doesn’t bother me because they weren’t kicking out of ridiculous shit and the match didn’t last all that long. Ziggler has a few moments where he has some great selling and Edge also took some big bumps. Really cool spot where Ziggler hit a Zig-Zag on Edge outside the ring and slammed him into the stairs. I don’t think much was skipped with the commercial break (as this was a SD) but I feel like I missed out on Ziggler controlling the match and slowing things down. What I saw was Edge getting in offense pretty soon after the big bump that he took. Anyway I liked the style of match they worked as it was just good back and forth stuff. 
***¾* 


_Smackdown October, 1999_
*Edge and Christian vs. Matt and Jeff Hardy* 

Weird seeing these guys in a match together and get such a weak reaction. They were clearly trying to get over and a couple weeks after this match they would with their ladder match but in this match you could tell they were doing whatever they could to get noticed. The whole match just seems to scream, “Hey look at us! Look what we can do!” In a short amount of time they did a lot of cool stuff. It’ just two teams throwing everything they have at each other, which isn’t the worst thing.
****


_Ladder Match for the WWE Championship, Raw July 1st, 2002_
*The Undertaker(c) vs. Jeff Hardy *

One of WWE’s best ladder matches. I just wish more matches were worked like this instead of just a series of set up spots. Undertaker beats the shit out of Jeff Hardy for the most of the match. But it’s the 5% of the match where Jeff is getting in offense that make this special. Every punch Jeff throws and everything he does offensively in the match was desperate and he gave everything he had. Jim Ross on commentary and a hot crowd proceeded to make this really special because there were times when Jeff was able to make you believe. I’m not really a Jeff Hardy fan but for this match I wanted him to win more than anything. You have a heel that overpowers the babyface and shows no mercy and you have the most sympathetic face you can possibly imagine. The match is nearly flawless (minus the horrible looking hurricanrana I can’t fault anything) and it tells such an amazing story. 
*****¼ *


_Raw May 2nd, 2005_
*Shawn Michaels vs. Shelton Benjamin *

Michaels really made Benjamin look good in a loss. Shelton remains one step ahead of Shawn for what seemed to be the entire match, minus the very end. Within the opening seconds of the match you knew that Shelton could hang with Shawn and Shawn knew that as well. I’ve actually never seen this match before and I totally understand why it has been talked about so much. The pace is amazing, Shelton looked like a star, and Shawn did well in his veteran role. I kind of wish this match had happened maybe a month or two later and we could have seen Shawn result to some more heelish things to get the win but that’s not really a fair criticism of the match. Great match and I think I can understand why some people thought Shelton should have been a main event guy. That being said I think this might have been a little overhyped for me. I still thought it was amazing but not quite, greatest Raw match ever. 
****¾* ​
I picked some good ones. Made me realize what makes some of the TV matches great. The three best matches that I watched involved a guy on the lower card trying to get a win against a top guy. All three times they made me believe that they had a chance. You don't get this stuff on PPV all that often because you don't sell a PPV with the idea being that one guy really has no chance at winning.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

admiremyclone said:


> Lord no. Don't do this to us.


I actually kinda think this will happen at some point. :vince$


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Spring Stampede 1999 has some great matches worth seeing: Juvi/Blitzkreig, Bigelow/Hak, & Benoit/Malenko vs Raven/Saturn. The rest don't bother w/. Well, Goldberg is worth seeing b/c he's Goldberg and the aura around him rules. But the match is bad & nothing like their Starrcade match. Rey vs Kidman is dogshit. They both get injured in it and it's brutal to sit through. The four way sucks. Duh. Just see DDP get the win & move on. There's also a Riggs & Konnan match on here too. LOL.

Michaels vs Shelton is a DUD. I hate that trash. Shawn getting pissy in it is such a joke. Couldn't believe how bad it was when I watched it. Oh well. 

Taker vs Jeff Ladder match is _(tied, more or less b/c I do still love Bret vs 1-2-3 Kid) _as the best RAW match ever for me.




Yeah1993 said:


> Definitely a Juvi fan. Rocked it pretty much everywhere from 95-98 (AAA, ECW, WCW, prob some shitty indy I've never heard of), and I think was still contributing positively to big ass tag matches in Mexcio in 2001. Worked TNA as well; *has a well-like match w/ Chris Sabin in 2003* (got ****1/2 from Meltzer IIRC. I think I liked it), and some of those threeways/fourways/whatever involved him. One with a ladder or something too. I haven't really gone into great 'depth' to watch his WWE stuff, but that Kid Kash match he got fired for is actually pretty friggin awesome. I might not be remembering right, but I think it was a LIMB MATCH!!!! :mark: Not really paid to much attention to his career after that, but apparently a few years ago he was a horrendously shitty wrestler. S'only what I've read, though.


Random opinion: Sabin match is ok. It's kind of very near-fall oriented to where it was them finding a way to hit a big move, make a cover, etc. It goes on for a bit so Tenay & West are flipping out. Maybe I'm underselling it a tad via an early Sabin performance, but it wasn't quite what I remembered when I last watched. Wouldn't dub it anything that represents Juvi being shit later on in his career, though. He had worse outings while still in WCW, for example.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

> has a well-like match w/ Chris Sabin in 2003 (got ****1/2 from Meltzer IIRC.* I think I liked it*)


I said "I think I liked it" purely b/c I didn't remember. :lol 

Turns out I did~



me 2 years ago said:


> Juventud Guerrera v. Chris Sabin (TNA 9/2/03)
> Was Sabin a heel? He slaps Juvi and backs off and shit and I'm like 'awwww yeah HEEL', and then he wrestles the entire match as...well, not really a heel. The action was pretty good. Juicy has some nasty looking kicks to the face, and takes a ludicrous shoulder-bump from a powerbomb that I'm pretty sure wasn't intended. Sabin kind of kicks out of a couple of finishers I didn't like. First was this almost double-underhook piledriver that looked stupidly dangerous to pull off. Pretty sure a slight mis-time somewhere would have destroyed Sabin's vertebrae. He then kicks of the Juvi Driver and a 450, and I mean he wasn't really no selling and any of that shit, but it felt like big finishers and nearfalls for the sake of big finishers and nearfalls. I did like this, though. Didn't LOVE it, but if anything I'd like to watch more Juvi from around this time (even in TNA); that's something. Not many people make me want to watch more TNA. JUVI THE JUICE.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If it helps now, by proxy of winning the tournament, Sabin went babyface. Consider it a smooth transition. 8*D


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

So yeah watched Spring Stampede last night, well the first half up until the tag match, will watch the rest later.

Blitzkrieg/Guerrera is still fantastic, seriously one of my most treasured WCW matches. Benoit/Malenko vs Saturn/Raven holds up really well, when I watched it i wasn't a big fan of the finish, but then it was pointed out its Raven's Rules and all so im fine with it now lol.

Rey/Kidman started like a classic, then Mysterio hit his head off the guard rail and Kidman I think got injured too, and it turned into a bit of a mess tbh. Slow, both were just going through the motions to get through the match, crowd were dead. Frustratingly disappointing.

They did have a really good match on Nitro around that time though (March?) that i need to check out.

Will watch Steiner/Booker, Nash/Goldberg and the four way later.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Forgot about Booker vs Steiner, haha. Those 2000 matches are so much better than what they did in 1999. Maybe Steiner was more motivated b/c they were World Championship matches. I dunno. But he was awesome in the final months of WCW when he got his push.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Michaels/Shelton encapsulates the very worst of Shawn. Hokey selling (wobbly legs, awkward spasms and facial expressions), light offence and an inability to execute what he's trying to do. His structuring deviates to Angle/Hardy levels in the latter half, when he suddenly flips a switch and goes to selling Shelton's offence yet his ego cannot let the kid maintain control leaving the viewer with a weird dichotomy that kills the narrative. Transition -> flop over -> transition -> flop over. Yuck. Also, look at this shit:











Finish was cool, though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm not sure if that's in reverse or not. 'Kin hell.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Unedited.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

:lmao Same here, is it reverse or real time? Either way it looks ridiculous and is something a lot of people seem to forget or look past when it comes the post 90's HBK.

Edit:  Think it makes it worse it's real time lol. Is that the Gold Rush match, havn't watched it in years, seems it always praised primarily due to the finish, think people gloss over the actual match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Why I hate the match: summed up in one gif.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Man that would be AWESOME. I don't care what everyone else says about gingers, you're alright in my book


Took longer that I hoped cos my DM account for suspended for 24 hours :lmao. Anyway, here it is:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k66zZDnuA9EplnbvkvZ
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k73FnW1bLUyCVHbvkFy
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k6tCEDBtx63Fxibvm7t
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k21P65iUzGCLmRbwBAi


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Gets fast internet and aims to become Wrestling Forum's media saviour; account suspended.


This is Cal's life.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

See, Rah. You really DO have it better than Cal. 8*D


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I thought I was the grumpy hate-filled wanker thinking Michaels/Shelton was only "kinda pretty good" all these years. Cody saves the day again.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

I'm laughing at the possibility of The New Day having the Money in the Bank briefcase as freebird rule and attempting to cash in and prevent each other in the funniest of ways.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I thought I was the grumpy hate-filled wanker thinking Michaels/Shelton was only "kinda pretty good" all these years. Cody saves the day again.


:cozy

I'm gonna be Tenryu before I know it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rah said:


> Michaels/Shelton encapsulates the very worst of Shawn. Hokey selling (wobbly legs, awkward spasms and facial expressions), light offence and an inability to execute what he's trying to do. His structuring deviates to Angle/Hardy levels in the latter half, when he suddenly flips a switch and goes to selling Shelton's offence yet his ego cannot let the kid maintain control leaving the viewer with a weird dichotomy that kills the narrative. Transition -> flop over -> transition -> flop over. Yuck. Also, look at this shit:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:lmao What the hell is going on there? Shawn Michaels' constant need to dance during his post-comeback matches are both unbelievably stupid and unbelievably hilarious.

I agree with most of the assessment of the match, although I could have sworn that Shelton had an extended control segment in that match. Perhaps I shall watch it.

_*~15 minutes later~*_

Hmm, the match started off pretty well with Shelton establishing that he can outwrestle Shawn on the mat. I did like how Michaels tried to avoid getting on his back while he was on the mat in fear of what an amateur wrestler can do to him in that position. Not really a fan of Shawn getting a couple takedowns on Shelton from the stand-up position considering the initial dichotomy that the match was trying to establish. Shawn utilizing a forearm to get the advantage on Benjamin was cool, but it would have been more impactful if Shawn didn't take down Benjamin so many times beforehand. :lol at Shawn telling that cameraman to get out of his face.

COMMERCIAL BREAK

We all know this, but Shelton's explosiveness with his offense is something to marvel at. That man had a mean Samoan drop. Looks like Shelton will have his extended control segment now. Whoa what a nice inverted backbreaker.

Aaaannnnddd it's over in less than a minute. Shawn hits another forearm and the double kip-up occurs. They should have done this after a bigger spot. And now Shawn is doing the wobbly-leg sell. He does do a nice looking throw though that I've never seen him do before. Shelton reverses a SCM into his own spinning enzigueri. 

LMFAO it happened! That gif was in real time! And it looks even stupider in context with the match. Another SCM reversed into a roundhouse kick from Shelton. Shawn Michaels for some reason is grabbing Shelton's ass. HOLY SHITS Shelton hit a sick reverse cross body after jumping from the mat to the top rope.

And then the finish happened. Not much to say about that which hasn't been said before, but I think Shelton's springboard attempt made perfect sense considering that his reverse crossbody connected, so why wouldn't he go for another aerial move? Surprised by how short this match was.

*VERDICT*

I thought it was a good match, but it definitely is severely overrated. Rah was right that there was no extended control segment where Shelton could showcase his offense (rather good looking offense too). Instead, he only got to showcase those maneuvers through counters, but the story of the match would be more impactful if Shelton didn't keep getting hit with flying forearms. Shawn's selling also made little sense because he never really got hurt in the match. Even Ziggler's ultra-selling makes more sense because at least he lets his opponent work over him for an extended time and makes his opponent's offense look good. Shawn doesn't really do any of this. Instead it feels like Shawn feels obligated to sell like he went through a war even though only 7 minutes went on in the match, and Shawn was in control for 5 of them.

I think the two things that give this match such a high rating (arguably undeservedly so) are the finish and the environment of the match. Like I said before, there's no need to go over the finish. But back in 2005, we never got to see these veteran vs. young whippersnapper matches on RAW like we do now with the Cena Open Challenge. As a result, it seems like a false narrative was created with Shelton/HBK where people have convinced themselves into thinking that Shelton looked better than he actually did. 

A better match in 2005 where Shawn lets a younger wrestler work over him would be the match with Masters at Unforgiven. Masters' offense at the time was still pretty dull, but at least the narrative of the match made more sense than it did here. In an interview, Chris said that HBK allowed him to call the match, which probably made the difference between that match and this one.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Big Cal's World said:


> Took longer that I hoped cos my DM account for suspended for 24 hours :lmao. Anyway, here it is:
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k66zZDnuA9EplnbvkvZ
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k73FnW1bLUyCVHbvkFy
> ...


Just watched the first two parts and I'm absolutely loving it. Cornette is freaking histerical, the way he talks about Kevin Dunn and Vince Russo makes my heart warm. Just tried watching the third video part and it says it's still publishing and that I need to wait for it, so that is what I shall do. The 4th video part you uploaded works but I want to watch it in order.

Thanks again dude!

P.S. I never thought the Shelton/HBK match was all that special. Good? Yes. Great? Hell no. TBH the Shelton/Trips match was much, much, MUCH better if I recall correctly. I haven't seen it in years but I remember watching both back to back and thinking the Trips match made the one with Shawn look like amateur hour.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm a big fan of that HBK/Shelton match. Last time I watched it, I was surprised by how much it held up for me. Stuck around **** on it I think, which was less than what I would have given it when it first happened, but more than I was honestly expecting to give it.

Hmmm... part 3 is still publishing? It was uploaded BEFORE my account was suspended while part 4 was uploaded after, so I'd have expected it to have done already. I'll just re-up that part in hopes it works properly this time .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Vader & Bam Bam Bigelow vs Keiji Muto & Hiroshi Hase (NJPW Explosion Tour 05/01/92)*

Well this is excellent, one big highlight of Vader in Japan and an all round fabulous match. The Hase/Vader punch exchanges were great, Hase gets bloodied up and at one point looks as if he doesn't know what planet he's on.....then Vader reminds him with a powerbomb. 

HIGHLY RECOMMEND. :mark:

Been in a Vader mood today. I'll get onto Vader/Mutoh next.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Alrighty, Part 3 of the Cornette 1997 WWF Timeline http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k507TOCnIPeW08bx2dR .


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

And so somebody else now joins the club that is knowing and loving Vader/Bigelow vs. Mutoh/Hase. Makes me feel all warm and gooey inside. Hope Vader/Mutoh does it for you as well.

I've always been a big proponent of HBK/Benjamin '05, but having recently seen HHH/Benjamin '04, I'm thinking that one might be better.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, I've seen Vader/Mutoh a couple of times tbh and personally, I consider it as good as the best Vader/Sting match imo. It's certainly a MOTYC and one hell of a match so I've no doubt it'll hold up.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Vader & Crusher Triple B duo. Good god, if that's not the coolest tag team on paper alone. Then you seen em work. Hell yes. 

SUPER HEAVYWEIGHTS.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Vader/Mutoh is probably the best Vader-in-Japan match, and the best Mutoh match I remember.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm gonna hold onto this comment.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Gotta give a shout-out as well to Vader's killer All Japan run in '98-'00. Just watched the '98 RWTL final, with him and Hansen vs. Kobashi & Akiyama, and it is very much the good stuff. His Triple Crown match with Misawa the following May? _The even better stuff._


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Yeah1993:



Spoiler: HELL YEAH!






Yeah1993 said:


> of course, I purposely infiltrated that into your brain.


:henry2



Yeah1993 said:


> So it went something like?:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I feel like I never get your references. I remember having to google "Ted Mosby." :lmao Thought the name sounded cool, so I refer to you as that in my head now sometimes. Is that weird?

This Marufuji thing is negative, I'm sure, SO I'LL IGNORE IT1!!!1



Yeah1993 said:


> I also have to realllly be in the mood for full shows in general to even watch those (WCW syndies usually being the exception). Yes, the 2010 PPV thing was NOT a good idea.


Yeah, I couldn't even imagine doing what you're doing. I never watch whole shows unless it's new, and even that can be tough to get through. I just want to get to the good stuff, lol. Hats off to the people who are open to seeing everything. 




Yeah1993 said:


> Seriously!? That's....kinda awful, just reading it on paper.


lol, you made this sound like a horrific event. I know what you mean, though. Don't worry, I like reading your posts. : )





Yeah1993 said:


> Back, neck, eye even.....I think Aja Kong worked individual fingers.


I like that. I can't remember who it was, but someone kept going after their opponent's eye, and it was great. 

Re: What you said about not finding limb work boring & liking it...that's probably one of the reasons why you hold someone selling it with great importance. Totally understood. 



Yeah1993 said:


> That was Henry's match to me for sure but he was untouchable at that time and I completely thought Orton was really good. I think before that Henry had looked more like a monster in his career, but not ever more like a main event-level monster. Felt like Orton was told - "do one thing - actually make him seem like King Kong." He totally delivered. I was actually legitimately surprised.


Happy face!




Yeah1993 said:


> Definitely a Juvi fan. Rocked it pretty much everywhere from 95-98 (AAA, ECW, WCW, prob some shitty indy I've never heard of), and I think was still contributing positively to big ass tag matches in Mexcio in 2001. Worked TNA as well; has a well-like match w/ Chris Sabin in 2003 (got ****1/2 from Meltzer IIRC. I think I liked it), and some of those threeways/fourways/whatever involved him. One with a ladder or something too. I haven't really gone into great 'depth' to watch his WWE stuff, but that Kid Kash match he got fired for is actually pretty friggin awesome. I might not be remembering right, but I think it was a LIMB MATCH!!!! :mark: Not really paid to much attention to his career after that, but apparently a few years ago he was a horrendously shitty wrestler. S'only what I've read, though.
> 
> Shouldn't be a surprise to you, but I really didn't like the 03 Juvi NOAH tag at all. I specifically remember the DVD I bought it on started glitching and bugging out so I missed the last few minutes, and I was honest-to-God relieved.
> 
> ...


lol at "prob some shitty indy I've never heard of."

I went in prepared to not like it, based on a negative Youtube comment. Thought it was fun, in large part due to Juvi's performance. I figured it'd be something that many in this thread would hate, but I thought it was entertaining from a sheer "fireworks" perspective. A typical American audience would have probably eaten that up.

ETA: Marvin stopping what he was doing but then giving Fuji the finger, made me lol. Especially because it was funny how Fuji stopped dead in his tracks when he saw the finger.

Great chicken shit moment on Marvin's part.

Are you an Aussie, btw? I took Hayley's comment as a joke, because I'm pretty sure he's from Cali. So he was joking about the reverse?



ETA: Added a bit more again. Hope you aren't already writing again. :lmao

ETAA: Again.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

*Sheamus & Big Show vs Dolph Ziggler & Roman Reigns (16/04/2015, Budapest)* - Sheamus and Ziggler were the stars of the show in building to the hot tag. Pity Sheamus was out of position for the hot tag to Reigns as that would have been a thunderous reaction if he had hit Sheamus flush and not had to have made an awkward readjustment into a different move. Same for Big Show in being ready to take the match-winning spear, but being off was par for the course, here, for Show. Car's moving, but the engine's not running with him; complete day-off. He's criticised, often, for being slow and plodding (quite wrongly, I must add) but he played into those tropes here by standing around over a lifeless Ziggler, lackadaisically waiting for the crowd to start rallying behind the babyface, before he'd deliver a move and repeat the process. Shit's bad when you have to pause the match for a couple seconds to centre the crowd's support, and that's weird enough to type, as I'm not sure I've quite seen it done to this degree before. As an example, Show would be standing tall over a semi-conscious Ziggler, who'd slowly grab onto Show and pull himself onto his feet. Normal process is to have the babyface make a plucky counter to a punch and rally. Here, Ziggler had to pause mid-way for Show to continue with his motions and deliver his comeback - almost like the audio was out of sync a couple seconds.

Must applaud them for the gist of their efforts, though. In a perfectly run form, and with a game Big Show, this match would be super fun. Ziggler being ragdolled by Sheamus for the inevitably wondrous hot-tag by Reigns... what's to hate?



Toyed with ideas on which guys I'd put this type of FIP Ziggler with, but gave up when I realised the door's open for Goldust/Cesaro now that Kidd's out. If you're going to do one thing, WWE, please.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Spoiler: ?!!!!






LilOlMe said:


> I feel like I never get your references. I remember having to google "Ted Mosby'." :lmao Thought the name sounded cool, so I refer to you as that in my head now sometimes. Is that weird?
> 
> This Marufuji thing is negative, I'm sure, SO I'LL IGNORE IT1!!!1


I don't even remember bringing up Ted Mosby. :lmao I have so many different nicknames at this point that no more amount could hurt.

The Marufuji thing was literally me googling "nonsense .GIF" and finding something that made no sense, in retaliation to you calling a match Marufuji's finest in coherence and storytelling.




> Are you an Aussie, btw? I took Hayley's comment as a joke, because I'm pretty sure he's from Cali. So he was joking about the reverse?


Yep. Cody and I are two peas from the same pod but I found out he liked Chuck Taylor so I destroyed the pod and sent us flying to land in different continents. I got the short end of the stick, as far as I can tell. 

Which comment from Cody?
------------
Edit from other post:



> ETA: On the negativity point, I think that it can create a feeling of having to (or feeling like you have to) justify, rather than just enjoying. This happens in life too. I was really negative on a RAW a few weeks ago. The one where Ambrose came in in a police van. I was talking to a casual fan the next day, and since I am aware of what a buzzkill negativity can be -- especially when it's relentless -- I make an effort not to be that way around casuals, who tend to just enjoy the show more. Well, I was being really negative this time, and I could just see their enthusiasm dying down, and they were like "well, I liked it because it was light, and Ambrose makes it work..." But they were saying it in a way that was very much in an almost apologetic voice, and like now they were having to try to justify it in their own heads.
> 
> It just shouldn't be that way. They should like what they like. I don't like that my negativity made them question whether it was "good" or not, when clearly it was good to them until I came along. See what I mean?


:lmao Brilliant.

I've said it before (probably not here), but I am very, very, very glad I do not have wrestling friends. I have a friend who used to watch wrestling and some of the stuff he says is proof we are just of completely opposite wrestling mindsets. I've never, ever, ever once brought up any kind of 'selling' or whatever. It'd be pointless and I'd 3000% feel like a buzzkill. I'm not going to hear "remember Finlay? Nobody liked Finlay," and retaliate with "look at the way he sells his arm." :lmao Now I'd have zero problem actually speaking about that kind of shit on a podcast or something where people who are of the same wrestling nerdiness as me listen to, and if that person heard me I wouldn't care. But, just, wrestling is so damned weird like that. It isn't basketball; I can't just explain the rules and whatnot. 

And you have to get ready for people who very clearly don't watch wrestling very much, but think they know way more than you do. Blood? All capsules. Black eye? All make-up. Injury? They don't get injured. It's fake. And because you're into wrestling they may immediately see you as somebody who buys into anything like a shithead. I was in the same room as somebody, watching Armageddon 06, who just would not give up thinking Joey Mercury's injury being 'fake'. You can't even bring up Mercury having surgery, overdosing on meds and getting fired over it b/c they'd prob think it's 'part of a show' or something. Like, no, dude, this wasn't on the show. It happened. "Yeah...whaaaatever." DIE

This would all be avoided if I had some nerdlinger like me to speak with in person about Chuck Taylor sucking ass and the 'babyface comebacks' of Jerry Lawler. There's just like no chance of that, esp where I live. Like, holy shit, I've legit imagined myself dating a WWE fan and she finds out I'm into wrestling and she wants to chat me up and...fuck, it'd be a disaster from the beginning. "Who's you favourite wrestler, sexy?" "....Shinya Hashimoto." Gahhhh. I mean, I'm definitely not ashamed or embarrassed or anything but it'd just feel so goddamn weird. You both like wrestling but you both have way different mindsets about it.

I agree with the justification thing obviously. Again I don't talk about wrestling in-person to anybody, but other forms of entertainment I've had experience with it. You have so much to say about it that they (whoever feels positively about _X_) feels like there's a spotlight on them to explain their like-ing...ness. That happens on forums too, though. I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong for wanting to know why somebody liked something, but getting an answer in an almost regretful tone is really crummy. I didn't want to interrogate........ 

Most of the time you don't even ask and they feel 'bad'. Nobody should feel 'bad' about stuff like that. 

except cal he can get fucked




> ETA: Added a bit more again. Hope you aren't already writing again.
> 
> ETAA: Again.


Eye started twitching when I read this. And I whispered "must.....kill......"

I don't see an ETAA in the spoiler tag, though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Chuck Taylor the bane of our existence :lmao



> Like, holy shit, I've legit imagined myself dating a WWE fan and she finds out I'm into wrestling and she wants to chat me up and...fuck, it'd be a disaster from the beginning. "Who's you favourite wrestler, sexy?" "....Shinya Hashimoto."


Omg. This is your Seinfeld moment. Let it sink in.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Big Cal's World said:


> Alrighty, Part 3 of the Cornette 1997 WWF Timeline http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k507TOCnIPeW08bx2dR .



(Y)(Y)(Y)

Thanks for taking care of that!




Yeah1993 said:


> Vader/Mutoh is probably the best Vader-in-Japan match, and the best Mutoh match I remember.



It's either that or that match he had with Misawa in I think May of 1999. It's not the 10/30/99 one, that one is fabulous but there was a match in May I wanna say that was even better. I just wish there was better video of the Mutoh match. It's so hard to make out expressions and the subtle stuff with that grainy audience camera being the only angle we see from.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Spoiler: DUDE ABOVE






Yeah1993 said:


> I don't even remember bringing up Ted Mosby. :lmao I have so many different nicknames at this point that no more amount could hurt.


It was when we were talking about relationships & jealousy. You compared yourself to Ted Mosby.




Yeah1993 said:


> The Marufuji thing was literally me googling "nonsense .GIF" and finding something that made no sense, in retaliation to you calling a match Marufuji's finest in coherence and storytelling.


Oh, so I feel less slow now. Cool. And Eff your preconceived notions!!1 I was also tacitly acknowledging that they may not be his strongest suit, hence pointing out when it was. 




Yeah1993 said:


> Yep. Cody and I are two peas from the same pod but I found out he liked Chuck Taylor so I destroyed the pod and sent us flying to land in different continents. I got the short end of the stick, as far as I can tell.
> 
> Which comment from Cody?


He said something about you being from Cali & him being from Australia. So are you both really Aussies, and he moved to Cali? Or he never really lived in Australia in the first place?

We'll just talk about him like he's not here. :lmao

If he's an Aussie, that makes sense, because he never really struck me as an exclusive Californian. Watch me be so wrong...

------------



Yeah1993 said:


> I've said it before (probably not here), but I am very, very, very glad I do not have wrestling friends. I have a friend who used to watch wrestling and some of the stuff he says is proof we are just of completely opposite wrestling mindsets. I've never, ever, ever once brought up any kind of 'selling' or whatever. It'd be pointless and I'd 3000% feel like a buzzkill. *I'm not going to hear "remember Finlay? Nobody liked Finlay," and retaliate with "look at the way he sells his arm." :lmao* Now I'd have zero problem actually speaking about that kind of shit on a podcast or something where people who are of the same wrestling nerdiness as me listen to, and if that person heard me I wouldn't care. But, just, wrestling is so damned weird like that. It isn't basketball; I can't just explain the rules and whatnot.
> 
> And you have to get ready for people who very clearly don't watch wrestling very much, but think they know way more than you do. Blood? All capsules. Black eye? All make-up. Injury? They don't get injured. It's fake. And because you're into wrestling they may immediately see you as somebody who buys into anything like a shithead. I was in the same room as somebody, watching Armageddon 06, who just would not give up thinking Joey Mercury's injury being 'fake'. You can't even bring up Mercury having surgery, overdosing on meds and getting fired over it b/c they'd prob think it's 'part of a show' or something. Like, no, dude, this wasn't on the show. It happened. "Yeah...whaaaatever." DIE
> 
> This would all be avoided if I had some nerdlinger like me to speak with in person about Chuck Taylor sucking ass and the 'babyface comebacks' of Jerry Lawler. There's just like no chance of that, esp where I live. Like, holy shit, I've legit imagined myself dating a WWE fan and she finds out I'm into wrestling and she wants to chat me up and...fuck, it'd be a disaster from the beginning. "Who's you favourite wrestler, sexy?" "....Shinya Hashimoto." Gahhhh. I mean, I'm definitely not ashamed or embarrassed or anything but it'd just feel so goddamn weird. You both like wrestling but you both have way different mindsets about it.


:lmao at the bolded.

Yeah, but I don't really blame casuals for not knowing when they're selling or really injured. Some of the time, I don't! lol. The blood capsules I've heard a lot. I used to think that when I was little. :InsertBrockTheMod'sembarrassedsmileyface


As for your last point, haha, you're going to have to ease in. The "different mindset" thing is an accurate way to describe it, but that's why it's kind of cool to go from casual opinion to here. Like, I think I might watch a head explode if I were to try to explain the thought that heel in peril shouldn't be done. :haha

As for Shinya Hashimoto, who are your top 10 faves of all-time?




Yeah1993 said:


> I agree with the justification thing obviously. Again I don't talk about wrestling in-person to anybody, but other forms of entertainment I've had experience with it. You have so much to say about it that they (whoever feels positively about _X_) feels like there's a spotlight on them to explain their like-ing...ness. That happens on forums too, though. I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong for wanting to know why somebody liked something, but getting an answer in an almost regretful tone is really crummy. I didn't want to interrogate........
> 
> Most of the time you don't even ask and they feel 'bad'. Nobody should feel 'bad' about stuff like that.
> 
> except cal he can get fucked


Stated it perfectly, have nothing more to add. Except poor Cal. 




Yeah1993 said:


> Eye started twitching when I read this. And I whispered "must.....kill......"
> 
> I don't see an ETAA in the spoiler tag, though.


I think the last edit was because I wrote "ETTA" and had to fix that. :lmao

I spent an inordinate amount of time trying to get that picture as the spoiler lead-in, btw. Apparently THAT'S. NOT. POSSIBLE. Kept thinking I was doing something wrong with the tags, lolz...I'm a persistent little fucker.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> Chuck Taylor the bane of our existence :lmao


This isn't even a hyperbole for me. Eye.....eye's....twitching again.



Obfuscation said:


> Omg. This is your Seinfeld moment. Let it sink in.



I've had many a fake conversation with many a fake wrestling fan girlfriend. Best one was a girl that said she did in fact watch puro, lucha, indy, stuff like that. Worst was two days later when the same one admitted she loved Chuck Taylor. Stuffing a fake girl into a trunk is easier than a real one.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> It's either that or that match he had with Misawa in I think May of 1999. It's not the 10/30/99 one, that one is fabulous but there was a match in May I wanna say that was even better. I just wish there was better video of the Mutoh match. It's so hard to make out expressions and the subtle stuff with that grainy audience camera being the only angle we see from.


I remember liking all of the 99-01 AJ Vader I've seen, even if not as much as everyone else, a----

-----oh, shit. I forgot about that 2/17/00 Kawada match. No, that's definitely the best Vader in Japan match I remember. Kawada was unreal in it. I guess I'm not doubting the Mutoh match might be better but I will stick with the Kawada one for now. Still honestly never seen the Vader/Takada from 94, either, but Vader in a shooty setting doesn't feel 100% right. It's just he uses chokeslams and stuff that feels too 'pro-y', even for UWFi. Bet the 6 minute match w/ Yamazaki holds up as the bomb, though. And I don't necessarily think Vader in shoot doesn't work or isn't good (I think every Vader 'shoot style' match I've seen was good, inc. the 93 Takada match), maybe just a little unfitting. I should shut the fuck up and watch the Takada match. Only 'big' Vader match I have left to see, really. Course I still also have Vader/Bradshaw x? on the Never Seen list.


edit - you are doing this on purpose. I will respond. HOLD ON.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> This isn't even a hyperbole for me. Eye.....eye's....twitching again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did Vader have more than one match with Kawada? About 6 months ago when I finally said fuck it and sat down and watched all of Vader in AJPW that I could find on the internet at the behest of @funnyfaces1, I remember getting all giddy when I saw the Kawada match and I ended feeling slightly let down. It was a really, really, good match. But not great. Not as good as the tournament match I had just watched of Vader vs Kobashi and certainly not as good as the 2 unbelievably awesome Misawa matches from 1999. I hope this is another Kawada match I just haven't seen yet


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

It's their only singles match. I didn't particularly think it was all that great, either.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

One thing I would say about Vader in Japan, and this is probably something I'm completely alone on, but i would have liked him to wear his mask more. It's no big deal and it doesn't alter or affect anything in regards to his matches, but it's just something I'd noticed. 

Saying that, he made his debut in Japan without the mask, so.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> It's either that or that match he had with Misawa in I think May of 1999. It's not the 10/30/99 one, that one is fabulous but there was a match in May I wanna say that was even better. I just wish there was better video of the Mutoh match. It's so hard to make out expressions and the subtle stuff with that grainy audience camera being the only angle we see from.


Yup. 5/2/99 > 10/30/99. Both rule.

Hmm. It seems I've had the Vader/Akiyama match for a while without watching it. Well then.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> One thing I would say about Vader in Japan, and this is probably something I'm completely alone on, but i would have liked him to wear his mask more. It's no big deal and it doesn't alter or affect anything in regards to his matches, but it's just something I'd noticed.
> 
> Saying that, he made his debut in Japan without the mask, so.


I'm glad I'm not the only weird ass who thinks this as well. It's one thing for Vader to be in a hot and heavy battle and have to pull his mask off when he's done fucking around and about to murder someone, like he would do in WCW and WWE. But in AJPW he would just wear the mask to the ring then pull it off right before the opening bell. Never understood that. That's like Jerry Lawler dropping the strap right before the match starts, or Angle doing the same. It was a cool character spot for him to finally get really pissed and pull the mask off, dunno why he didnt do that in Japan. My only guess is that realism is valued much more in Japan than it is in the US and Vader thought of it as "if I'm really going into this ring to have a fight with Misawa or Takada or whomever, I wouldn't wear this fucking mask while I was in a fight". That's my guess.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Did Vader ever talk about the mask restricting his breathing or anything like that? Might have just been uncomfortable.

So how many of you guys rewatched Shield vs. Rhodes Brothers at Battleground 2013? The pre-match promo and the final stretch of that match brings the tears.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I've had the worst fucking work week ever up here in Akron & Canton Ohio (complete shitholes so stay away), BUT, I just bought my tickets for the NXT show in Cleveland tomorrow night. The saving grace that makes all this shit worth it. No clue what's gonna be o the card but I'm pretty excited. They had one tonight in Pittsburgh and ran Owens vs. Joe vs. Balor vs. Breeze in the main event. HOLY FUCKING SHIT! :mark:


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I've had the worst fucking work week ever up here in Akron & Canton Ohio (complete shitholes so stay away), BUT, I just bought my tickets for the NXT show in Cleveland tomorrow night. The saving grace that makes all this shit worth it. No clue what's gonna be o the card but I'm pretty excited. They had one tonight in Pittsburgh and ran Owens vs. Joe vs. Balor vs. Breeze in the main event. HOLY FUCKING SHIT! :mark:


That match sounds crazy, I guess you're not too much into the Cavs, don't you?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Fighter Daron said:


> That match sounds crazy, I guess you're not too much into the Cavs, don't you?


Well I'm a Wizards fan but I'm rooting for Cleveland and it's pretty cool to be around a city that's so heavily invested in the team. All the people have been really cool and you can pretty much talk to anyone about the Cavs, but the cities of Akron & Canton are total dumps. :lol Everything is old and the roads are loaded with cracks and potholes.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Well I'm a Wizards fan but I'm rooting for Cleveland and it's pretty cool to be around a city that's so heavily invested in the team. All the people have been really cool and you can pretty much talk to anyone about the Cavs, but the cities of Akron & Canton are total dumps. :lol Everything is old and the roads are loaded with cracks and potholes.


It has to be difficult to live there, but keep it up man, you would find a way to get out of there if you want to. Hope you enjoy that NXT show.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Well I'm a Wizards fan but I'm rooting for Cleveland and it's pretty cool to be around a city that's so heavily invested in the team. All the people have been really cool and you can pretty much talk to anyone about the Cavs, but the cities of Akron & Canton are total dumps. :lol Everything is old and the roads are loaded with cracks and potholes.


A fellow Wizards fan rooting for the Cavs? You should be ashamed! Deshawn Stevenson would NOT be happy with you 

I love watching Steph Curry play too much to root against him unless he's playing my Wiz, I want the Warriors to win. Not to mention I want to avoid Lebron winning again and having to endure a month of the absurd "Is Lebron better than Jordan?!" Discussions on ESPN that make me want to put my head through the wall. No Lebron, you will never be better than Michael, EVER. So just let it go.

Just watched Bradshaw vs Vader right before Game 4 started and I have to say it was a really sweet little match. Lots of stiff clothes lines, me likey. Was this Vaders last match in WWE?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Debating that Lebron is better than Jordan would be like saying that Cena is better than Austin. My god tonight's game was like an extended Vader beatdown.

Vader's last televised match was jobbing to Edge on Sunday Night Heat a week after the Breakdown match. His last WWF match was a month later against Shamrock and Mankind in an IC Title match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hahaha. LeBron is like the Jordan of my (or our) era so I root for him since he came back to Cleveland. I know he has plenty of haters but it is pretty incredible what he's doing with the roster he has (minus Kyrie & Kevin). Easy to hate with Miami, but easy to love in Cleveland.

Let's be real though. Whoever wins this series is gonna definitely earn it. Been an incredible 4 games so far. Delly is a hero around these parts. 

Anyway, back on topic. Sad, sad news hearing about Dusty today. Such a talented family. #FreeCodyRhodes


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm the only one that thought Vader/Kawada was amazing? Fantastic. I am not the 'grumpy' one for once. :mark:



Spoiler: death to chuck taylor






LilOlMe said:


> It was when we were talking about relationships & jealousy. You compared yourself to Ted Mosby.


OK, yeah, I remember. Well I sort of did but I do remember after looking it up.



> He said something about you being from Cali & him being from Australia. So are you both really Aussies, and he moved to Cali? Or he never really lived in Australia in the first place?
> 
> We'll just talk about him like he's not here. :lmao
> 
> If he's an Aussie, that makes sense, because he never really struck me as an exclusive Californian. Watch me be so wrong...


He's American, I'm sure. I mean I guess I don't KNOW, but, I'm sure.



> As for your last point, haha, you're going to have to ease in. The "different mindset" thing is an accurate way to describe it, but that's why it's kind of cool to go from casual opinion to here. Like, I think I might watch a head explode if I were to try to explain the thought that heel in peril shouldn't be done. :haha


heel in peril can just go fuck itself. Dunno how it caught on for tag team matches especially but it puts a big shit dirt stain on WWF's tag matches in the late 80s-early 90s.



> As for Shinya Hashimoto, who are your top 10 faves of all-time?


Made this list on June 15th 2013:

1. Hashimoto
2. Vader
3. Kawada
4. Guerrero
5. Misawa
6. La Parka
7. Jerry Blackwell
8. Finlay
9. Dustin Rhodes
10. TAKA Michinoku

For the longest time I actually kept this same list and every time I'd find the list again I'd also find myself agreeing with it. Not so sure any more. I think that's largely because I legit haven't watched a match of half of these guys in the past year and a half, but back then I absolutely would have answered "yes" to "do you like TAKA Michinoku more than Rey Mysterio?" I can't answer that question right now. TAKA was a guy I had in contention with five or six others for the #10 spot anyway.

I'd keep most of those guys in their right now, I think (if not all). Order would just switch. Vader'd likely be #1 now, and Rhodes would probably be top 5, maybe top 3. 




> I spent an inordinate amount of time trying to get that picture as the spoiler lead-in, btw. Apparently THAT'S. NOT. POSSIBLE. Kept thinking I was doing something wrong with the tags, lolz...I'm a persistent little fucker.


like what I did here?:
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/49400833-post9214.html

I screwed that up four times.


edit - Accidentally wrote "I screwed that up four times" outside of the spoiler tag on this post. See? 9_9


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

havent been here for a while

but i put on unforgiven 2008 last night...fell asleep during cryme tyme tag match, so i still need to watch the rest of that. looking forward to jericho/hbk :mark:


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Yeah1993:



Spoiler: Lex Luger, 'cause why not






Yeah1993 said:


> OK, yeah, I remember. Well I sort of did but I do remember after looking it up.


lol, a third of your posts in here are about having to look up old shit that was said. Remember how Lex Luger used to be your hot topic? I just lol'ed.



Yeah1993 said:


> heel in peril can just go fuck itself. Dunno how it caught on for tag team matches especially but it puts a big shit dirt stain on WWF's tag matches in the late 80s-early 90s.


Probably because faces tended to be the better workers, and matches can be more entertaining with better workers on offense.

Long FIP segments can be cool, especially if the other team really makes a big thing of the face almostgettingtothetagthisclose! in really clever ways, but other times it can be so damn boring. And PREDICTABLE. That's the biggest thing.

How many times are the refs "not gonna see" the tag. Ugh. Shoot me. This can be great if the crowd's in a real frenzy, thinking that the partner is about to make the save, but it's only potent when it's done rarely.

The last time I remember really caring about a FIP segment, was Ambrose during the Shield's Main Event match vs. The Wyatt's. Maybe there's more, but that's the last one I remember.

Actually, believe it or not, the divas did a pretty good job of making a show of keeping AJ away from the corner. She sold trying to reach well...that's the main thing I remember about the match, lol. Oh, and I remember those looong ass rest-hold/submission segments that Hayley shat on.




Yeah1993 said:


> Made this list on June 15th 2013:
> 
> 1. Hashimoto
> 2. Vader
> ...


Surprising. Thought for sure Mysterio would be on there, and didn't know that you liked Vader that much. Feel like you talk about Mysterio & Rhodes more, but that may just be that that's what happened when I was around.

I thought you were halfway joking about the La Parka love.

What about a top 10 from the WWE? And a top 10 US-based workers?




Yeah1993 said:


> like what I did here?:
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/49400833-post9214.html
> 
> I screwed that up four times.


No! You wrote a word as the spoiler lead-in, that's how you did it. I was actually trying to do the picture as the word. :lmao I was convinced I could make it happen. I guess IMG tags don't work in spoiler tags. 



Yeah1993 said:


> I screwed that up four times.
> 
> 
> edit - Accidentally wrote "I screwed that up four times" outside of the spoiler tag on this post. See? 9_9


I'd be up shit's creek without an edit button. I never know what I'm doing. :lmao




Watched the KENTA vs. Marufuji 60 minute draw (10/25/08). Have a few comments, but also some questions. Was confused about the rules:



Spoiler: spoiler



Why were the count outs only to 10? Usually in Japan it's to twenty. 

Also, why was the ref randomly kicking their hands off of the ropes when they got to the rope during a submission, but then other times accepting it?

The way they put the focus on the ref at the beginning of the match, I take it that he was a legendary wrestler coming back. So was he just doing what he wanted?

If so, there was no consistency to when he did it and when he didn't do it, it seemed.

As for the match, I'm in full agreement with most of the comments that I've read online about the match. It is really impressive that they went 60 minutes, with no stall tactics at all. 

It's the quickest paced 60 minute match I've ever seen, but not in a retarded way. They weren't doing high spots all of the time, it's just that they weren't doing anything to purposely stall and drag things out either.

I was surprised that the ref counted at a pretty high speed when someone was on the outside, and was even more surprised when KENTA came in on five, lol. I am so used to people just sauntering around the outside to kill time.

There were, of course, the usual long-term selling issues that people complain about in their matches together. However, was impressed that Marufuji was able to keep it interesting being on offense 90% of the time, and I think that this had some of that war feeling that the late '06 match had, but switched gears more than the '06 match did.

lol @ these online comments, though:


> If KENTA and Marufuji can do uptempo for the full 60 minutes, then so be it i dont care if it makes zero sense I will love it. If not, well fuck em.
> 
> 
> > I'm getting ready for LUKIE & PWL's heads to explode over it for being so "bad".
> ...


Wonder if Lukie & PWL post here...



> Absolutely epic. Marufuji showed a viciousness seldom demonstrated in the past, the story largely being KENTA's refusal to die no matter what his senpai did to him. They managed their energy wonderfully, with the match being structured somewhat episodically so that the few seconds of rest came after explosive sequences rather than pointless rest holds. The few submissions that were used did not look nor feel like they were there for time-shaving, especially Marufuji's punishing headlock after trying to collapse KENTA's skull for about 15 minutes. Also, the ring out nearfalls were made more frantic by the 10 count, which Wada blazed through like it was 1981.
> 
> Marufuji often shows something new every match he's in, but here he brought out moves that shouldn't be humanly possible, and both men initiated and suffered spots that very nearly surpass Kobashi's Tiger suplex off the ramp from 2003. What is incredible is that these insane, rapid sequences took place throughout the match, they didn't just do one athletic sequence at the beginning, lurch around for 50 minutes and bring out a hot finish. They went nonstop for a full hour. The only comparable match that I've seen would be Toyota Manami vs Inoue Kyouko from 5/7/95, but to my eyes that match was just a linear string of- after a point- meaningless offense to fill up the hour, while Marufuji and KENTA here showed themselves to be too good to be contained by the hour. To a trained eye, many 60 minute draws can be sniffed out in the opening minutes, but here, they always looked like they were going for victory, whether at minute 5 or minute 59.





> Also earlier today watched the epic 60 minute KENTA-Marufuji match from October 25th, 2008. Hadn't seen the match since it originally happened and I thought it was amazing then, watched it again and it's even more amazing than I remember. Without a doubt the most exciting 60 minutes of wrestling I've ever seen in my life, you thought Bret and Shawn got dull with all the rest holds? These two guys go fucking full throttle nonstop for 60 minutes, no joke, it's an absolutely SUPERHUMAN effort from both men that simply has to be seen to be believed. I had no qualms whatsoever with proudly giving this match the five star rating, the second KENTA-Marufuji match I've had rated as such over the past 6 years. Just amazing, find it now, watch it, love it, own it, study it, praise it. Wrestling perfection.


Agree about the superhuman effort. That's basically what I took away from the match, despite any faults. Just the stamina alone is impressive from a spectator standpoint to me.

I think for a newb, this would be one of, if not the most, enjoyable long matches for them. Probably one of the few they'd sit through without getting bored at all. Has its place for being its own style of long match. 

I also agree with the comment that Marufuji showed a kind of relentlessness that I don't usually see from him. Liked the Piledriver spot against the guardrail. KENTA taking it to the back of his head AND top of his head, lol.

The sequence toward the end when Marufuji kept trying to do his move & flipped out of KENTA's butterfly suplex or powerbomb from the top, and then went for his move again, but KENTA countered it with the bridge suplex was orgasmic. Smooth as hell, and the timing was just so great. Wish I didn't know the result of the match, because that would have had me on edge.



On a side-note, also watched this:



Spoiler: spoiler






> Naomichi Marufuji & KENTA vs. El Samurai/Wataru Inoue (GHC Jr. Tag Titles) 1/10/04 [****1/4 Meltzer rating]


This is the match where Marufuji "almost falls off the ropes" but then does a backwards head scissors into a Hurricana. Fun shit, very creative, and fitting given the circumstances.

For someone to take a typical trope that people just respond to in typical ways (I'll just get right back up, or...fall), and turn it into something fun and special...dude is just always thinking. He's like a mad scientist in the ring. Can annoy, I understand, but it pushes the envelop, and it's an artistry in its own way, though an entirely different one than a Bret Hart.

Also, KENTA turns a suplex into a small package, but what I noticed was that he was already getting the dude into the package while he was still in the air. Made it SO smooth, and it just really shows you what paying attention to the little details can do to create a superior execution.

As for the match, was a bit bland to me until it got toward the end. Then became more rousing. I think I was expecting more out of El Samurai honestly, so that contributed to it feeling underwhelming.



On the topic of long matches, I just realized that I never saw the HHH vs. Benoit Iron Man match.

And didn't Benoit and Angle have a 30 minute one? Haven't seen that either.

I've seen all the other ones that the WWE has put on.

How were those two? Also, are people positive on the Cena/HBK 60 Minute RAW match? That's one I've been saving.


ETA: Added quotes about the Marufuji/KENTA 60 minute match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Spoiler: Lex Luger!?






> Long FIP segments can be cool, especially if the other team really makes a big thing of the face almostgettingtothetagthisclose! in really clever ways, but other times it can be so damn boring. And PREDICTABLE. That's the biggest thing.
> 
> How many times are the refs "not gonna see" the tag. Ugh. Shoot me. This can be great if the crowd's in a real frenzy, thinking that the partner is about to make the save, but it's only potent when it's done rarely.
> 
> ...


I loooooove FIP in almost all forms. Heels doing it though...blah. 





> Surprising. Thought for sure Mysterio would be on there, and didn't know that you liked Vader that much. Feel like you talk about Mysterio & Rhodes more, but that may just be that that's what happened when I was around.
> 
> I thought you were halfway joking about the La Parka love.
> 
> What about a top 10 from the WWE? And a top 10 US-based workers?


(these are both pretty rough, and not really in order)

Overall US (couldn't get this down ten...):

Vader
Dustin Rhodes
Arn Anderson
Eddie Guerrero
Finlay
Steve Austin
Rey Mysterio
Mark Henry
Jerry Blackwell
Jerry Lawler
Brian Pillman
Tajiri
Sgt. Slaughter
Randy Savage

WWE (only their work counting from WWE, as in Arn isn't on here b/c WCW doesn't count...also I only got 9):

Eddie Guerrero
Finlay
Steve Austin
Rey Mysterio
Mark Henry
Sgt. Slaughter
William Regal
Randy Savage
Chris Benoit


Goldust would likely be on the WWE list if I bothered to watch his 2013 already. He's already close w/ 2002, 2009 and 2010 alone. Initial heel run is a bonus. Almost put Christian and Matt Hardy on there too but I'll leave it at nine to make it funny b/c I couldn't get ten on either list.

La Parka's a legit excellent wrestler. Just easy to joke about him because he's a SKELETON WHO DANCES and hits people with chairs. Which is largely why he's one of my ten favourites. Even when he's in a shit match I like watching him just to see him do things.




> No! You wrote a word as the spoiler lead-in, that's how you did it. I was actually trying to do the picture as the word. :lmao I was convinced I could make it happen. I guess IMG tags don't work in spoiler tags.


yeah, that doesn't work. :lol







> On the topic of long matches, I just realized that I never saw the HHH vs. Benoit Iron Man match.
> 
> And didn't Benoit and Angle have a 30 minute one? Haven't seen that either.
> 
> ...


Never saw Trip/Benoit. Benoit/Angle is OK. Cena/Michaels is phenomenal.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH/Benoit is good. Angle/Benoit 30 minute ultimate submission match is awesome. Cena/HBK 45 minute match is fantastic.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Spoiler: Lex Luger!?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So the Bob Backlund thing is just a joke?

You will love Goldust's 2013 stuff, since you're already high on him, and most people loved his 2013 work. When are you going to get on that?

lol, Cal, at referring to it as the "45 minute match." Will probably watch it this weekend.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I'm in a mood for some TWO MAN POWERTRIP

It might be an unpopular opinion on here, but I loved Austin in 2001. It was hilarious though how many theme songs he used as a heel :lol

I was never, and still not a huge HHH fan but weirdly enough liked him when he was paired with my fav :austin


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

LilOlMe said:


> So the Bob Backlund thing is just a joke?


I haven't watched any Backlund since 2012, but I did think he was an all time great. A personal favourite too but I can't call him one still because it's at the point where IDK if half of his shit would be as good to me. Fairly confident it is but I guess over the past couple years I've just grown to like other people more. I wouldn't be surprised if I still had four to maybe even seven Backlund matches in a top 20 WWE list of all time, though. I have little fear of the Slaughter matches, Valentine broadway and Patera TDM not holding up, at least.



> You will love Goldust's 2013 stuff, since you're already high on him, and most people loved his 2013 work. When are you going to get on that?


I am struggling through 2010 and after that's done I won't be seeing modern day WWE for a while. I wanted to do pre-80s for months and might be true to my word w/ it.



> lol, Cal, at referring to it as the "45 minute match." Will probably watch it this weekend.


It's around that long considering commercial breaks I think.



KENNY said:


> It might be an unpopular opinion on here, but I loved Austin in 2001.


Is it!?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I don't know about this thread, but I've seen plenty of disapproval on the site itself. 

In the mood for some ECW now. What PPV should I check out before I go to bed?

Foley, Funk, Tajiri, RVD etc pls


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It absolutely isn't. We love Austin's 2001 here from an in-ring perspective.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Yeah, turning Austin heel gets shit on from a business perspective a lot, but as I've said elsewhere, I think the turn itself is one of the best-booked things WWE ever did, and that heel run put Austin into arguably his best-ever performance space. '01 Stone Cold is definitely Bruce-approved, and I don't think I'm in the minority around here.

In other news, finally watched Jannetty vs. Doink 2/3 falls. Even better than I remembered. How is it that 8-year-old me thought the Doink character was the stupidest thing ever yet adult me is able to see how great Borne's interpretation of the gimmick was? Ah, well. Awesome stuff -- and props to whoever upped it to DM with awesome 1993-era commercials intact.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Big Cal's World said:


> HHH/Benoit is good. Angle/Benoit 30 minute ultimate submission match is awesome. Cena/HBK 45 minute match is fantastic.



Ditto all of this. Angle/Benoit Backlash 01' is their best match ever iMO, at the very least it's the smartest match they ever worked. Love it. HBK/Cena on Raw....that might be Michaels best non Undertaker match from his second run. Cena was awesome in it as well, no matter what Bob Holly says.



KENNY said:


> I'm in a mood for some TWO MAN POWERTRIP
> 
> It might be an unpopular opinion on here, but I loved Austin in 2001. It was hilarious though how many theme songs he used as a heel :lol
> 
> I was never, and still not a huge HHH fan but weirdly enough liked him when he was paired with my fav :austin


Austin in 2001 I hold in the highest, highest regard. Steve in that year is neck and neck with Flair in 1989 for best in ring year in US history, maybe even better than Flair considering he had a higher out put of classic matches. I mean, look:

Austin/HHH NWO 01'
Austin/Rock WM 17
Austin & Hunter vs Taker/Kane BL 01'
Austin/Taker JD 01'
Austin/Benoit Raw 01'
Austin/Benoit SD 01'
Austin & Hunter vs Benoit/Jericho Raw 01'
Austin vs Angle SS 01'
Austin vs Angle Unforgiven 01'
Austin vs Angle Raw 01'
SVS 01' Tag

All of those matches, all of them, are classics in my eyes. And that's not including him kicking ass in the 01' Royal Rumble, either. 11 fucking incredible matches, all in 1 calendar year. Amazing. We will never see that again, at least I don't think we will.




KENNY said:


> I don't know about this thread, but I've seen plenty of disapproval on the site itself.
> 
> In the mood for some ECW now. What PPV should I check out before I go to bed?
> 
> Foley, Funk, Tajiri, RVD etc pls


Psicosis vs Tajiri in ECW is must see.



funnyfaces1 said:


> It absolutely isn't. We love Austin's 2001 here from an in-ring perspective.





Bruce L said:


> Yeah, turning Austin heel gets shit on from a business perspective a lot, but as I've said elsewhere, I think the turn itself is one of the best-booked things WWE ever did, and that heel run put Austin into arguably his best-ever performance space. '01 Stone Cold is definitely Bruce-approved, and I don't think I'm in the minority around here.
> 
> In other news, finally watched Jannetty vs. Doink 2/3 falls. Even better than I remembered. How is it that 8-year-old me thought the Doink character was the stupidest thing ever yet adult me is able to see how great Borne's interpretation of the gimmick was? Ah, well. Awesome stuff -- and props to whoever upped it to DM with awesome 1993-era commercials intact.


Anyone that doesn't appreciate what Austin did in 2001 can go fuck themselves. Seriously. Who gives a shit what kind of business his heel turn did? We don't work for WWE. Austin is 10x better an in ring performer as a heel, nearly all of his best 10-15 matches occured with him as an outright heel or a heel who hasn't quite turned baby face yet. Outside the match with Mick at Over the Edge 1998, I can't think of one other top 10 career match he had as a baby face.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Had an AWESOME time at the NXT show tonight. We were hyped for literally everything on the card. Got drunk as fuck and met some cool as people. I only spent $20 each on the tickets and they were theater floor standing tickets but the view was perfect. Place held like 1,500 people but it got LOUD in there. Main event was really really damn good. Owens vs. Joe vs. Balor vs. Breeze. Every one of em were over as fuck. Lots of fun sequences and teased showdowns between Joe & Owens. KO mocked Cena's 5 moves of doom and got a huge pop for it. Joe & Balor too sweeted each other postmatch. HOLY SHIT :mark: MOMENT

Sasha defended the Women's Title against Charlotte in a match that would've stolen the show had it not been for the main event. Tons of great wrestling there including a figure four spot where Charlotte kept it locked in over the ring apron as she was falling to the floor. Blake & Murphy defended the Tag Titles against Zack Ryder & Mojo Rawley. Ryder was way over but I couldn't have cared less for that team. :lol Rhyno & Baron Corbin had a really solid match. Big Cass is a BIG dude, and YOU CAN'T TEACH THAT! Jason Jordan looked really damn impressive against Bull Dempsey too. Good lookin kid.

Can't stress enough how much fun it was. IF NXT tours near you, make an effort to see it. They keep the undercard short & sweet and deliver big time in the main events. Great flow.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I watched Cyber Sunday 2008 early this morning, watched quite a bit, but fell asleep at one point and woke up to HHH/Jeff Hardy.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Although Austin is a better wrestler as a heel, I still prefer him as a babyface anyways. He really is the iconic face, as evident by him probably being the biggest star the business ever had. But the fact that he can bring on some amazing material with both alignments is something we take for granted.

There is one other guy in 2001 who I feel also had 11 excellent matches that year.

Jericho/Benoit RR
Jericho/X-Pac/Benoit/Guerrero NWO
Austin & Hunter vs Benoit/Jericho
TLC III
Invasion Tag
Jericho/Rhyno SS
Jericho/RVD Unforgiven
Jericho/Rock NM
Jericho/Rock RAW
SVS Tag
Jericho/Rock Vengeance (hush Cal)

I have all of those matches at four stars or above. Now I would still put Austin's 11 big matches over Jericho's easily, but Jericho had an underappreciated 2001. In particular, he was the workhorse that could be moved around the card and put on a good solid match with anybody on the roster on any night. There is a ton of value in that kind of a wrestler, but that aspect of a particular wrestler always tends to get undervalued. I wonder how Angle's big matches in 2001 compare to these two.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Random Ratings~! (from what i remember watching)

Edge (c) vs. Batista (*Night of Champions 2008*) - ***
Triple H (c) vs. John Cena (_*Night of Champions 2008*_) - *** 1/2
Matt Hardy (c) vs. Shelton Benjamin (*Great American Bash 2008*) - *** 1/4
Chris Jericho (w/Lance Cade) vs. Shawn Michaels (*Great American Bash 2008*) - *** 3/4
CM Punk (c) vs. John Bradshaw Layfield (*Summerslam 2008*) - ***
Batista vs. John Cena (*Summerslam 2008*) - *** 1/2
Mark Henry (w/Tony Atlas) (c) vs. Chavo Guerrero (w/Bam Neely) vs. Finlay (w/Hornswoggle) vs. Matt Hardy vs. The Miz (*Unforgiven 2008*) - ** 1/2
Matt Hardy (c) vs. Evan Bourne (*Cyber Sunday 2008*) - *** 1/4


Still need to watch:

Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels (*Unsanctioned Match, Unforgiven 2008*)
Triple H (c) vs. Jeff Hardy (*No Mercy 2008*)
World Heavyweight Title Ladder Match - Chris Jericho (c) vs. Shawn Michaels (*No Mercy 2008*)
Intercontinental Title #1 Contendership Tournament Final Match - CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio (*Armageddon 2008*)
Edge (c) vs. Jeff Hardy vs. Triple H (*Armageddon 2008*)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi & Mitsuharu Misawa (AJPW 12/03/93) (Real World Tag)*

There we have it, an incredible match. More than likely the MOTY with a fantastic finishing sequence.

I thought Liger's sell job against Sano was the best of all time, but Kawada here gives it a run for it's money, fucking AMAZING selling of the leg. The most perfect selling ive ever seen, everything from struggling to hit moves, limping, pain and 
anguish, totally looks legit, esp when he seems to ask for medical help at one point.

Wrestlers want to know how to legit sell, then they should watch this a fucking bow down to Toshiaki Kawada.

:mark:

Get on this shit NOW.

Thought id posts this here too so people who havn't seen it can check out what might just be the greatest selljob in history, along with as i mentioned Liger/Sano.

Interesting question though in here; Greatest sell jobs in wrestling?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Told you.

(maybe not but it should go w/out saying)

Yeah, no, that is probably the best sell I've ever seen though.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Double post b/c people who aren't me might have a life or something. edit - ...that was *four* hours ago....? I would've guessed one. Wonder what colour my brain is at this point.



2010 is contuningninginggn


---------
Sometimes when I get a match the only way to see it is to take an entire chunk of the episode of TV it was on, so on my way to watching Cena/Sheamus 5/17 I saw Evan Bourne and decided to check it out. Well, OK, first I saw Buzz Aldrin and decided to check it out. He literally received “what?” chants. Ugh. But no I saw Bourne and he was against Ryder so why not. Turns out b/c I had earphones in b/w Aldrin’s speech and the match’s entrances, I missed the fact it was an inter-gender tag. I didn’t notice until the women actually got in. ACTUALLY, they didn’t really get in so much as Ryder’s dudette tried to run into the ring to stop Bourne while Bourne’s partner stopped her. Yeah, came out of nowhere. Bourne and Aldrin try to moonwalk and I cannot stress this enough – never watch it. The lady watched it. As you can tell, I’m not entirely sure who Bourne’s partner was. I’m not working with great VQ here a lot of the time. Uh, the match…Ryder seemed like he was still trying to exit that ‘generic’ wrestler phase. Probably would’ve been a top 3 guy in ROH at the time if he did the same thing there though so w/e.

-----------------
So, Cena/Sheamus. It felt…”right,” in a way. You know in the Rey/Eddie match from 05 how Taz on commentary says the match feels big, like there’s a title on the line or something. Yeah, kind of like that. This involved the actual WWE champion (Cena) so it’s not quite that. Maybe it was Sheamus’ face before the mach, maybe it was the whole “Cena’s never beat Sheamus and goes up against Batista in a week who he had to beat last month by tying his shoes”, maybe it was the ‘special’ Raw (this was still the Toronto commercial-free episode from Edge/Christian), I don’t know. It just felt big. And you know what? They kept it going the whole thing. That ‘big’ feeling. Everything they did felt immediately striking, Sheamus’ offense was tight as fuck, Cena wasn’t seeling like he was dying for the smallest thing, they were working with nice comebacky spots. It started out really violently with Sheamus throws brutal clubs and Cena getting so pissed off he chucks him in the steps a couple times. Sheamus seemed to want to lose an extra rib while running toward them and goes full-bore. Cena tries one more and Sheamus reverses it brilliantly, where the camera focuses on Cena, then when it shifts back to Sheamus he’s on the floor, then lifting himself up purely so he can use one arm to hold the other. This was kind of back and forthy but not really in that shitty way where it feels like two guys that are just obsessed with showcasing their stuff. Just really felt like they were both trying to get themselves out of a jam every time they blistered a move out of hope. Not every time, I guess. Couple annoying ‘c’mon, you should be down’ moments. Cena’s shoulder tackle/ugly doom slam/5KS combo in particular. That’s kind of a buzzkill almost every time I see it because he never seems to plug it into a situation and just ‘does’ it. It’s just worse when I think the match is moving along really nicely. But sprinting, bulldozing Sheamus with a clothesline and shaking your own arm after it because it was that immense? Awesome. There was another “Cena is piiiiissed” spot that was basically a ring post-throw but Sheamus again held back nothing running into it and splat on the ground in some ridiculous way that almost looked cartoony. Sheamus gets to the “I am ULTRA PISSED” mode and starts kneeing Cena in the head, knocking him off of the apron and then doing his rope-clubbers which you just heard on an almost uncomfortable level. Really intense, physical, BIG-FEELING match. I was excited about this progressing because as it went on I was genuinely ready to give it a green light for the list. Then Batista showed up. It was right as Sheamus grabbed the ropes during an FU, to which Cena responds by trying to chuck Sheamus out of the ring to compromise. Batista just comes in and gives this match a finish it did not deserve. I really would loved to have added this but I’m not positive I could justify it. It’s not the finish *alone*, but, I would probably be actually thinking about it if it had a good finish. Ah this is killing me. Wait. Um. 
ADDING.


----------------
Swagger/Kofi 5/21 is exactly the type of match that made me choose 2010 WWE. Just like the awesome Goldust/DiBiase match I look forward to re-watching – I forgot it even exists. I have 33 matches on this list and possibly over a dozen more to be added, and that’s what I remember from WWE in 2010. Matches with WWE TV formula on a weekly basis that’d make you go “wow, WWE, don’t fire this Scottish guy, I like him!” All of this random Scottish guy’s best stuff just makes you forget that there are matches like this dwelling around. I even ucking forgot about some of the Scottish guy’s matches! Watched Kofi/Swagger when it happened and thought ‘damn, finally a really solid Kofi match,’ then had forgot about it entirely until I decided to look for matches to watch. Whenever I find myself doubting the 2010 WWE choice it’s because I truly forget the random good matches that made me enjoy consistently watch SD and SS that year. Kind of like, a similar example, who’s seen the incredible Blanchard/Garvin TV title match from 86 that gets a lot of time? If you have, did you remember the match existed until I brought it up just now? I forgot all about it until I read a mention of it on PWO. I was like “whoa, wait, yeah, that exists. That match is fucking incredible.” That might not be the same because this Swagger/Kofi is just “good” while Blanchard/Garvin laps even my #1 on this list several times over, but, fuck, why aren’t I working on an 80s list again?


E-HEM, Swagger/Kofi is still damn good. Feels trite but the only issue I had with it was Kofi. He was only actually bad when throwing those thingys that I shouldn’t bring up because Mike will scream at me, but other than that he was just kind of ‘passable.’ He was only sort of passable in the McIntyre PPV match I added but that had the advantage on being a bit of a feud ender and a full-circle moment. Swagger was mostly great when not no selling a Russian leg sweep only to get up and just do ‘something’ to get Kofi down. It was really anti-climactic. But no he was a great base, stooging a bunch at the beginning, not afraid to look like an idiot, then forming his offense with the eventual big spot of just flat out throwing Kofi’s head into the fucking ring post. He had him in a firemen’s spot and just like gorilla’d him forward. Swagger’s does a bunch of cool shit and my favourite (post-ring post spot) was probably just grinding Kofi’s face to the floor. Kofi’s selling was pretty decent throughout the whole thing but not really in a way that, IDK, added to the match. I thought he kiiind of actively added to the few Ziggler matches I saw him in and here he just felt like a passenger who, when it came time for the comeback, was terrible. Jesus what kind of dropkick is that? The finish was drop dead awful. The Big Show comes out with a mic and goes “heyey thwag I forgot to tell yoo sometin else” and when Swagger doesn’t listen Show starts going “nawh srsly!!!” until he listens. Swagger only falls for when he throws Kofi out and then Kofi wins with a measly as fuck splash after Swagger turns around. Not adding this (even if it had a not shit finish unlike Cena/Sheamus), but it holds up and if Swagger pulled this exact match against Chris Masters ah goddamn I’m upset again.

---------------
Swagger/Kofi was a match I thought might hold up but I wasn’t sure I was going to add it to the list anyway. Rey/Taker 5/28 is a match I was *positive* I would add to the list and was just excited about where I was going to put it. I really dunno what to say about it though. I cracked about Mike “screaming” at me for mentioning a shitty Kofi offense but when it comes to Rey I seriously just do not want to even bring up how good he is any more. I think with him it should just be genuinely assumed he was on par with the best wrestlers on Earth (which is many a time, himself). Taker felt like a true giant which is decently rare considering he’s been a babyface since 2002 and worked big or moderately-szied guys all the time. He was fucking awesome just looking like a tall, extremely pissed off demon when Rey would get under his skin and Jerry him. Starts the match by sprinting at Rey too which gave Rey prime openings to let Taker run, and then dodge elsewhere (that makes sense somehow). Laughed that Taker did his deadman sit up, Rey senton’d it and Striker called it a “counter.” God, I don’t know, I just do not have a criticism about this match. It’s a short, intense, burst of fucking awesome energy. Just rules. I fully expected this to be in single digits when I started this list and to see it not is kind of warming. There are more awesome matches this year than I even thought. So ADDING

-----------
Cena/Bourne v. Edge/Sheamus was a match I just didn’t get when it first happened, so I was especially curious to watch it again.

I .Fucking. Loved. It. 

W-was I nuts? Even goddamn EDGE I liked a lot here. His offense even. EDGE’S OFFENSE IN 2010. Like I heard even legitimate smacks. Bourne is a crazy good FIP. Maybe my eyes were playing tricks on me but I swear he bent his back at the very moment Sheamus stomped on him. Definitely wasn’t my imagination seeing Bourne hold his back while upright. Like Rey/Taker I’m just at a loss on what to say. *Everything* about this worked. This was fun. This was exciting. This was dramatic. You know what this was? This was a fucking WCW 92 tag! Straight up. From the FIP with the teases, to the bulky Sting guy being on the outside, to the hot crowd cheering for the bulky Sting guy and clapping to get the FIP out of a jam, to the final FU being all spinny followed by Cena dodging Edge’s spear, causing Edge to fly into the ring post which got a LEGIT five year old-level smile from me. I actually felt bad for Cena after this because he looked like he was having so much fun out there and that’s the kind of crowd he should probably getting every time he gets a match like this. I just went from apathy to this being one of my honest-to-God personal favourite matches of the year. We NEED matches like this. Oh shut up I’ll watch the Shield’s full run one day. ADDING.


Wow. I just added my only 2 Raw matches so far and one I almost didn’t add….

Current list:



Spoiler:  WHATTUP?



1.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/30/10)
2.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (SmackDown 2/12/10)
3.	John Cena v. Batista (Extreme Rules 4/25/10)
4.	Sheamus v. John Morrison (TLC 12/19/10)
5.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Over the Limit 5/23/10)
6.	Drew McIntyre v. Chris Masters (SuperStars 8/26/10)
7.	The Miz v. Daniel Bryan (Night of Champions 9/19/10)
8.	Chris Masters v. Chavo Guerrero (SuperStars 8/12/10)
9.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 8/20/10)
10.	The Undertaker v. Rey Mysterio (SmackDown 5/28/10)
11.	Jack Swagger v. Rey Mysterio (SmackDown 6/11/10)
12.	Christian v. William Regal (ECW 1/19/10)
13.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/16/10)
14.	Rey Mysterio v. Jack Swagger (Money in the Bank 7/18/10)
15.	Christian v. Ezekiel Jackson (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
16.	Rey Mysterio v. Mike Knox (SuperStars 2/18/10)
17.	Christian/Kane v. William Regal/Ezekiel Jackson (ECW 1/26/10)
18.	Sheamus v. John Morrison (Survivor Series 11/21/10)
19.	John Cena/Evan Bourne v. Edge/Sheamus (Raw 5/31/10)
20.	Dolph Ziggler v. Chris Masters (SuperStars 5/13/10)
21.	John Cena/Edge/Chris Jericho/Bret Hart/John Morrison/R-Truth/Daniel Bryan v. The Nexus (SummerSlam 8/15/10)
22.	Rey Mysterio v. Luke Gallows (SmackDown 3/5/10)
23.	Shawn Michaels v. The Undertaker (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
24.	Goldust v. William Regal (SuperStars 8/12/10)
25.	William Regal v. Evan Bourne (SuperStars 3/4/10)


Other Contenders:

-	Christian v. William Regal (SuperStars 1/14/10) 
-	The Undertaker v. Rey Mysterio (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
-	Rey Mysterio v. Luke Gallows (SmackDown 3/19/10)
-	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
-	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Extreme Rules 4/29/10)
-	John Cena v. Sheamus (Raw 5/17/10)
-	Kofi Kingston v. Drew McIntyre (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
-	Chris Jericho v. Evan Bourne (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
-	Drew McIntyre v. Kaval (SmackDown 9/10/10)
-	Rey Mysterio/The Big Show/Kofi Kingston/Chris Masters/MVP v. Alberto Del Rio/Jack Swagger/Cody Rhodes/Drew McIntyre/Tyler Reks (Survivor Series 11/21/10) 
-


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Yeah1993 said:


> Double post b/c people who aren't me might have a life or something. edit - ...that was *four* hours ago....? I would've guessed one. Wonder what colour my brain is at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i'm interested in these Yeah

6.	Drew McIntyre v. Chris Masters (SuperStars 8/26/10)
8.	Chris Masters v. Chavo Guerrero (SuperStars 8/12/10)
18.	Sheamus v. John Morrison (Survivor Series 11/21/10)
20.	Dolph Ziggler v. Chris Masters (SuperStars 5/13/10)
24.	Goldust v. William Regal (SuperStars 8/12/10)
25.	William Regal v. Evan Bourne (SuperStars 3/4/10)

pretty sure i've seen the rest


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Yeah1993 is making me want to see a Kofi match. :hmm:


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Anyone that doesn't appreciate what Austin did in 2001 can go fuck themselves. Seriously. *Who gives a shit what kind of business his heel turn did? We don't work for WWE.* Austin is 10x better an in ring performer as a heel, nearly all of his best 10-15 matches occured with him as an outright heel or a heel who hasn't quite turned baby face yet. Outside the match with Mick at Over the Edge 1998, I can't think of one other top 10 career match he had as a baby face.















Brock said:


> *Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi & Mitsuharu Misawa (AJPW 12/03/93) (Real World Tag)*
> 
> There we have it, an incredible match. More than likely the MOTY with a fantastic finishing sequence.
> 
> ...


This is the kind of match that, had I seen it in real-time, I would've been convinced was the greatest match of all time to that point. Now, of course, I know that it's only the third best match these two teams had against each other. THIRD! How many great pairings have a _third-best_ match this good? Flair/Steamboat and Tanahashi/Okada, maybe. Misawa/Kawada and Misawa/Kobashi singles series, probably. One could say Taker/Michaels, if one likes Hell in a Cell I more than I do. Otherwise...? These teams had what I'd consider four ***** matches between from 1993 to 1995, and the first three are so good nobody even talks about the fourth one. (10/15/95. They go an hour. YOU'LL WANT MORE.)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Well, without trying to turn this thread into All Japan fap time, ill post this whilst I'm here too in case anyone is stuck for something to watch:

*Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada vs. © Kenta Kobashi & Mitsuharu Misawa (AJPW 05/21/94)*

Kawada's a real prick here, booting Misawa off the apron repeatedly. The first time was when Konashi was trying to tag Misawa in, and Kawada realising he can't stop him, so he just boots Misawa right in the face and off the apron, stopping the tag.

The second time was when Kobashi swings Kawada off the ropes, towards Misawa, and Kawada
again just gives him a big fucking boot. When Misawa recovers, he just gets straight in the ring
and stiffs Kawada with some elbows. Then Misawa finally gets legit tagged in and the crowd erupt as Kawada is the other legal man.

Small note, but i just love it when Taue pickes people up and it looks like he's going to suplex them......then just throws them instead.

Supreme work here, esp by Kawada/Taue, the way they start going after Kobashi's knee, started by Taue, and later on in the match, Kobashi hits his moonsault but fails to go for the cover as his knee is still giving him trouble, just magic. The crowd really get on Taue's back here, too.

Misawa/Kawada have an epic liitle stare down mid match, and exchange some elbows and the crowd
goes ape. Kawada is unworldly fucking great as a heel in this one id add.

Just a great vicious tag match, the final 20 min are especially awesome. 

Again, GET ON THIS SHIT NOW. :mark:


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

It's _always_ '90s All Japan fap time if your priorities are right.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

^Those matches sound great. You guys keep adding stuff to my watch list!!!

Watched:


Bruce L said:


> Yeah, there's quite a few must-see matches that aren't on there (in bold = SUPER must-see):
> 
> *[Koji Kanemoto] w/ Minoru Tanaka vs. Jushin Liger & Shinya (now Togi) Makabe, IWGP Junior Tag Titles, 9/12/00*


Well, the date on Youtube says 9/9/00. Hope it's the same match.

Good match, and Kanemoto is really, really, versatile. Loved when he was kicking the shit out of his opponent when he had him in the ankle lock. That extra little effort is appreciated.

Also thought that he was super smooth into that quick takedown into the ankle lock, and his partner did a great spin right into an ankle lock too. They just have more panache to their work there.

Wonder how people would feel about Kanemoto taking that spear, and then doing the ankle lock. It's one of those things that could be looked at as fighting spirit, but I guess could also be looked at negatively. I don't know.


I think I've only watched Liger matches since the 2000s recently (seen some of his earlier work, but that was yeeears ago, and don't have much memory of it). If I didn't know about how legendary he is, I'd think he's just another guy. He's not bad, really (I remember Yeah1993 saying that some people say that he's been bad), but he's just kind of just...there. Usually the most unnoticeable part of matches to me.

I'm assuming that it's just old age caught up with him. Will be curious to see what I think watching him in his prime, since he's held in such high regard.

@Jack Evans 187, what does "too sweeted each other" mean?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Be ready to take back all you said about Liger. He's the most important light heavyweight ever. He had some great matches just this past month too. Nothing can stop him, not even cancer.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watch the Liger/Sano series to get a real good taste to start.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

LilOlMe said:


> ^Those matches sound great. You guys keep adding stuff to my watch list!!!
> 
> Watched:
> 
> ...





funnyfaces1 said:


> Be ready to take back all you said about Liger. He's the most important light heavyweight ever. He had some great matches just this past month too. Nothing can stop him, not even cancer.



Liger is most definitely NOT "just another guy". He's an absolutely incredible wrestler. He's one of the best light heavyweight/cruiser weights ever I think.

Watch the matches Liger had with Benoit (just about all of them are fantastic), the Pillman SuperBrawl II match, the Starrcade match with Rey, the Black Tiger match (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2...er-vs-jushin-thunder-liger-njpw-6-12-96_sport) etc. Liger was awesome at his peak.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

> I think I've only watched Liger matches since the 2000s recently (seen some of his earlier work, but that was yeeears ago, and don't have much memory of it). If I didn't know about how legendary he is, I'd think he's just another guy. He's not bad, really (I remember Yeah1993 saying that some people say that he's been bad), but he's just kind of just...there. Usually the most unnoticeable part of matches to me.


Well, considering Liger's been wrestling for longer than you've probably been alive, maybe watching stuff when he's in his forties isn't an accurate sample of his his work? He did invent the Shooting Star, afterall.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

LilOlMe said:


> I think I've only watched Liger matches since the 2000s recently (seen some of his earlier work, but that was yeeears ago, and don't have much memory of it). If I didn't know about how legendary he is, I'd think he's just another guy. He's not bad, really (I remember Yeah1993 saying that some people say that he's been bad), but he's just kind of just...there. Usually the most unnoticeable part of matches to me.
> 
> I'm assuming that it's just old age caught up with him. Will be curious to see what I think watching him in his prime, since he's held in such high regard.


Try Liger/Tanaka v. Kikuchi/Kanemaru 4/7/02. IMO the best of the NJ/NOAH tags. Liger and Tanaka working heels in their own promotion in bizarre but friggin' awesome. A lot of Liger past 2003-ish is pretty forgettable but he seems to have resurged a bit the past few years (this is based on what others are saying, I obv haven't watched it).

All of these people going "NO WATCH *THIS* LIGER" and Cody hasn't even read it yet. Oohohohohboy.

Ah he'll prob just post that Muta/Liger that's only OK.


One thing about Liger is he's apparently really selfless, to the point of booking juniors to go over him who didn't even work for NJ, while Liger was NJ's biggest star (he was a bit of a booker man - the Super J-Cup and J-Crown tourneys were both his idea IIRC). That isn't going to be an 'excuse' or whatever for him not being very good, but if he's in a tag with young guys he'll kind of just let them shine. Sometimes he _is_ just flat out pretty average but his 90s run (and 80s; he was good even before becoming 'Jushin Liger' and the 8/89 Sano match is one of the best matches of all time) you'll see a ridiculously charismatic FORCE of energy and maybe sometimes some pretty bland matwork but a FORCE of it.

--------
Watched that tag for the hell of it. Liger was probably my favourite part, honestly. Tanaka & Kanemoto were pretty much just as enjoyable but I can point to more shit they did that bothered me. Makabe kind of...sucked. I can't FULLY blame him for lack of selling because Kanemoto and Tanaka were using knees to the head as 'just' moves but Makabe could have at least held his cranium while he was doing shit. Shrugged off stiff kicks in that annoying as fuck way too and it was kind of telling when he would take several of them and knees to the head while he just shoved Tanaka over and is all of a sudden OK. He delivered a hell of a spear that should be a decent finish but I think I saw like seven of them and he did them twice in a row then followed it up with a huger German suplex which is like you are not helping yourself by making the guy kick out of all that. Liger on the other hand used a simple powerbomb once (not even a Liger Bomb) and tagged Makabe in, pointing downward like "he's done; cover him, cover him." Makabe does but after a basic dropkick off of an Irish whip which is like, is that what...really? Just suplex the guy. Liger got to sell the leg and Kanemoto catches him in the ankle lock a couple times while he goes limping toward his corner. Loved how he was prepared to run at full speed with a damned leg so he first beats the fuck out of it like it's numb. Couldn't keep that other powerbomb in position too (I heard him audibly cringe while getting Kanemoto up there in the first place) so he just shoteis Kanemoto in the back of the head and gets rid of Tanaka who's pissing him off. Tanaka was a good Guy In Peril guy, and Liger's shotei there was great especially because of the visual you get of Tanaka dead in the corner. Tanaka had a really cool moment IIRC of backing off of one guy and accidentally winding up in the corner with the other (memory's a little foggy on this one). I liked the ankle lock as the turning point because it had a pretty much permanent effect on Liger so you KNOW it was a good move for Tanaka. Kanemoto stomping Liger during it was odd because he was only in the ring in the first place to keep Makabe out. Wait, was that the joke? Oh, I think that was the joke. Tanaka collapses into the ropes after that ankle lock sequence which is really all I need to get the idea that the past few minutes hurt you. Wish Kanemoto did the same after Makabe's spears. He at least looked to be struggling to keep that ankle lock on. Like I can be pretty OK with a guy taking a spear and having an ankle lock on after that as long as it's really clear the spear still had a big effect on him, and that he's dying while keeping on the ankle lock. Why I use words like "desperation." He thinks the spear might've did him in so he's blindly throwing anything he has and if that doesn't work he is fucked. And it'd help he kind of looks like he felt like shit after the ankle lock. I didn't *really* get that from Kanemoto but I also didn't feel like he was shrugging the spear off. Little ending sequence b/w Makabe and Tanaka was bleh (this was where Tanaka was kicking out of shit and Makabe started 'fighting spirit'-ing kicks again). Did absolutely think the match was good (Tanaka in Peril + hot finish run; first five or minutes were kind of boring) but had a good few nicks as well. Still I just watched the match and have it in positive mind so w/e.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

JustJoel said:


> > I think I've only watched Liger matches since the 2000s recently (seen some of his earlier work, but that was yeeears ago, and don't have much memory of it). If I didn't know about how legendary he is, I'd think he's just another guy. He's not bad, really (I remember Yeah1993 saying that some people say that he's been bad), but he's just kind of just...there. Usually the most unnoticeable part of matches to me.
> 
> 
> Well, considering Liger's been wrestling for longer than you've probably been alive, maybe watching stuff when he's in his forties isn't an accurate sample of his his work? He did invent the Shooting Star, afterall.


Agreed, which is what I said that you didn't quote. However, I was playing off of something that Yeah said about peoples' perception of Liger since the 2000s.

Even when people are past their primes, I can usually see glimpses, including glimpses of what made them great. Taue, for example, and most of the stuff I've been watching with Kenta Kobashi is probably past his prime, but I can totally see why people like him.

With Liger it may be because he was a lightweight, so aging really takes its toll on that style. However, Kanemoto impressed me in his mid 40s, so I don't know. A large part of it may be getting to see the facial expressions, though this never was a problem for me with Mysterio. 

On my phone so can't respond to everything, but thanks for the recs.

I knew u would say that about Liger in the match, btw, Yeah, and I noticed his selling & the powerbomb thing too. I can totally see the unselfish thing. In most of the matches I've watched, I think he's lost.

Knew it would prompt a reaction, but is it really that unfathomable that someone wouldn't like him in his prime either? Pretty much every popular, and often, respected wrestler has been shat upon here (which I didn't), so is it really so sacrilegious?

Feel like I did watch him against Owen Hart or some other U.S.-based wrestler in his prime recently, but not sure. Will check when I get home. If so, he did not stand out in my memory. Maybe will change watching more stuff.

I think it's mostly that I just didn't find him compelling to watch, not _bad_. Allowed?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

LilOlMe said:


> Agreed, which is what I said that you didn't quote. However, I was playing off of something that Yeah said about peoples' perception of Liger since the 2000s.
> 
> Even when people are past their primes, I can usually see glimpses, including glimpses of what made them great. Taue, for example, and most of the stuff I've been watching with Kenta Kobashi is probably past his prime, but I can totally see why people like him.
> 
> ...


Of course it's "allowed" bud, you are free to like and dislike and not particularly like or dislike whomever you choose. What I was saying and what I think others were is, you should really try and watch like 5-6 of Ligers best matches before making up your mind about him, because I think he's fantastic and seeing the matches you have liked previously in your posts it seems you would be more into him. There are only a few wrestlers, namely Rey Mysterio, Terry Funk, Undertaker, Eddie and maybe a few others where I just cannot fathom someone outright disliking them and their matches. Liger isn't one of those guys, but he is a guy where I think a large majority of people who are fans of the art of pro wrestling, what'd done in the ring, tend to really enjoy watching Liger, especially Liger in his prime from like 1988-1998.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

At the very least, you should check out Liger's television show.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

LilOlMe said:


> Even when people are past their primes, I can usually see glimpses, including glimpses of what made them great. Taue, for example, and most of the stuff I've been watching with Kenta Kobashi is probably past his prime, but I can totally see why people like him.


True, but there are exceptions. Nobody's watching 2003 Ric Flair and going 'aow yeah dude IS great!" Liger got a brain tumor in 1996 and that for sure has responsibility in slowing him down. 



> With Liger it may be because he was a lightweight, so aging really takes its toll on that style. However, Kanemoto impressed me in his mid 40s, so I don't know. A large part of it may be getting to see the facial expressions, though this never was a problem for me with Mysterio.


Kanemoto's barely brrn a real 'junior' the past decade, has he? Like this is legit a question and not rhetorical. If anybody reading this who's watched more of him than I have can confirm he's not really the high-fly-y guy so much as Tenryu Jr. then yeah, help~. Liger is great as a grumpy dickhead when he is one, but strays away from that. I also 100% think the Kanemoto I've seen from 21st century smokes 90s Kanemoto.




> Knew it would prompt a reaction, but is it really that unfathomable that someone wouldn't like him in his prime either? Pretty much every popular, and often, respected wrestler has been shat upon here (which I didn't), so is it really so sacrilegious?


It's definitely not unfathomable that someone doesn't take to Liger. I've seen a few. But those who're lukewarm on him tend to be lukewarm on the entire junior division in Japan. 

My guess is you'll think Liger's matwork is OK if not interesting. I'll just shoot in the dark and say you'll get way more out of his more spectacularyness finishy bigness matches. Like I do, I guess. Sometimes both happen the same match. Prime example is the Benoit/Ohtani from 96. Pretty awesome beginning, dull middle, pretty awesome end. They used to cut that middle part out of VHS' and stuff. Listened to a segunda caida podcast kinda recently and the two guys were talking about how people would go "man, wish we had the full match!" Nowadays they're like "someone should prob cut that boring shit out."





> Feel like I did watch him against Owen Hart or some other U.S.-based wrestler in his prime recently, but not sure. Will check when I get home. If so, he did not stand out in my memory. Maybe will change watching more stuff.


Always liked that match, but it's kind of overrated. Guess I could watch it again one day. It might be Liger technically during his peak, but I'd probably argue it's really between peaks. 1993 is like that, too. Don't remember a single noteworthy Liger match from 1993. Might be the WOTY in 1992 and if it holds up he had a fantastic 1994.


----
Re-watched Liger/Sasuke 7/8/94 for the hell of it. Holds up. Not to the exact level I used to hold it at, but I used to think it was on par w/ Rey/Eddie at Halloween Havoc so that's a high bar.


edit - Wait there are more than one Owen/Ligers. Hell there's one from before Liger was "Liger." So yeah not sure which one I meant.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> edit - Wait there are more than one Owen/Ligers. Hell there's one from before Liger was "Liger." So yeah not sure which one I meant.


04/28/1991 is widely considered the best of the Liger/Hart matches. Certainly by me too tbh, one of my favourite matches of the 90's tbh.

I still need to watch Liger/Pillman from Superbrawl again as it's been such a long time since I last watched it. There is a Liger/Pillman match from the G1 in 1991 on my DM channel that people may not have seen.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I could stand to watch them all again. If that other one really happened on 1/30/90 then that's only one day before the Sano classic (mid-post edit: I never knew this, but I just read it was a tournament :lol). Liger did the same in 92 w/ a fucking excellent match with Norio Honaga then a fucking excellent match with Benoit two days later. 

I remember thinking Liger/Pillman handheld from 12/91 was "quite good," but I let my SuperBrawl expectations hit me where it hurt. Bet I'd like it more now. Wait they had a match in the G1? Wasn't that a heavyweight-only tourney until 2000? 

http://rudoreels.com/shop/product/njpw-g1-climax-complete-collection-1991-bluray-wcase-art/

Damn, what the shit? These look potential...licious:

-AUGUST 7, 1991 – G1 CLIMAX BLOCK B MATCH: SHINYA HASHIMOTO VS. CRUSHER BAM BAM BIGELOW
-AUGUST 9, 1991 – G1 CLIMAX BLOCK B MATCH: RIKI CHOSHU VS. CRUSHER BAM BAM BIGELOW
-AUGUST 11, 1991 – 3-ON-2 HANDICAP MATCH: EL GIGANTE & MASAHIRO SAITO VS. KANTARO HOSHINO, KUNIAKI KOBAYASHI, & BLACK CAT (just for Hoshino)
-AUGUST 11, 1991: AKIRA NOGAMI VS. NORIO HONAGA
-AUGUST 11, 1991: TATSUMI FUJINAMI, HIROSHI HASE, & KENSUKE SASAKI VS. BIG VAN VADER, SCOTT NORTON, & CRUSHER BAM BAM BIGELOW









-------------

2010 again let's get through it

---------
Uh, again, IDK where some of these recs come from because I watched a Low Ki/Alex Riley on NXT. Their first TV match with the company (other than FCW) and it does, IDK, stuff. I kind of kept halting my attention because I thought the match would end soon and it went longer than I thought. Probably better than I’m giving it credit for, but there’s little need to watch this. Inoffensive match but I’ve seen Ki do the same thing in a much better match legit ten years earlier than this. Wonder how he felt inside while McCool & Layla clapped at him when he lost and went “it was your first match though!”

----------
All right, who was it? Someone is just screwing with me. Which one of you sons of bitches told me to watch a Chavo Guerrero/JTG match on SmackDown? Was it a Chavo-hater purely to show me the dead as fuck crowd or the fact Chavo waited until his entrance to put on wrist tape (which he fails a couple times). This wasn’t even bad I just don’t know where my source is.

-------
Chavo/JTG plays again. I had it on the DVD twice. 

!?

------
Ki faces some guy on NXT that looks like giant Matt Hardy. Pretty fun short sprint with Ki pulling out more than a couple double-stomps and getting ragdolled like crazy while Matt Hardy Big catches him and yells to put emphasis~ on his moves. Not going to change your life but glad I watched it. Giant Matt Hardy would’ve probably been decently fun to watch on some shitty indy promotion squashing Special K.

---------
Another really really short Masters/Ziggler and guess what? Masters looked phenomenal. Ziggler was right there with him for the first minute but couldn’t keep up that same level of fucking awesome. Ziggs unleashes on him after getting wiped and then sprints toward the sleeper. Great struggle to even get it applied, then Masters Backlunds it off and tries for the Master Lock again. Ziggler kicks the leg after a real escape which Masters has two seconds to sell before the zig zag and does it like a GOD. Kind of crazy how much of a ‘story’ they told in the amount of time they got. You have no idea how much I’d like to see Masters as a company ace. This was five fucking years ago. I went to wiki to check Masters’ age, but forget that - did you know his middle name is “Robillard”?

----------
Ah, finally re-watched McIntyre/Hardy 6/25/10. I won’t talk about the usual McIntyre-isms and will instead base this paragraph around the ridiculously stupid bumps these two decided to kill themselves on. First looked to be a regular chuck into the steps but McIntyre flew totally over them and seemingly just clipped a side which cannot be any fun at all. Second stupid bump is Drew's revenge when he pretty much back-suplexes Hardy from the fuckin apron all the way to the floor. Drew's like 6'5", man. The third was completely fucked up on a way higher tier. McIntyre, standing on the steps, gets ready to stomp on Hardy and while his leg is in the air Hardy sweeps the other and Drew kills himself flat on the steps. Like, bullshit. Why would you do that? Wouldn’t his other leg being in the air mean he had less preparation for the fall? Even if he was holding on the ring post a little that is NOT OK, DREW. YOU ARE MADE OF FLESH. AND BONE. Your fleshy boney body is not meant to experience anything like that. You never listen. ADDING

Like JTG/Chavo I also put this on the disc twice.
--------
Some battle royal for the Undertaker’s spot in the F4W. You’d think a match with Rey, Masters, Finlay, Gallows, McIntyre and Christian all in one would be hot but this was a goddamn waste of time. Notable things include Finlay running back and forth trying to throw Rey outside of the ring on parallel sides while Rey clings to his head, and Gallows looking pretty good the whole match. Still this wasn’t very short and Kane was the centrepiece of it. I’m not sure this added to anybody’s case of being good in 2010. OK, only Gallows. Probably the first match since the PPVs I’d call actually bad.

-------
McIntyre comes out hurt during the battle royal and they talk about a Kofi match he had the same night and I think “might watch it” then go “nah, whatever.” Aaaaand it was the next match on the disc. I’m tired I’ll watch it tomorrow.

Current list:



Spoiler:  WHATTUP?



1.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/30/10)
2.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (SmackDown 2/12/10)
3.	John Cena v. Batista (Extreme Rules 4/25/10)
4.	Sheamus v. John Morrison (TLC 12/19/10)
5.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Over the Limit 5/23/10)
6.	Drew McIntyre v. Chris Masters (SuperStars 8/26/10)
7.	The Miz v. Daniel Bryan (Night of Champions 9/19/10)
8.	Chris Masters v. Chavo Guerrero (SuperStars 8/12/10)
9.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 8/20/10)
10.	The Undertaker v. Rey Mysterio (SmackDown 5/28/10)
11.	Drew McIntyre v. Matt Hardy (SmackDown 6/25/10)
12.	Jack Swagger v. Rey Mysterio (SmackDown 6/11/10)
13.	Christian v. William Regal (ECW 1/19/10)
14.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/16/10)
15.	Rey Mysterio v. Jack Swagger (Money in the Bank 7/18/10)
16.	Christian v. Ezekiel Jackson (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
17.	Rey Mysterio v. Mike Knox (SuperStars 2/18/10)
18.	Christian/Kane v. William Regal/Ezekiel Jackson (ECW 1/26/10)
19.	Sheamus v. John Morrison (Survivor Series 11/21/10)
20.	John Cena/Evan Bourne v. Edge/Sheamus (Raw 5/31/10)
21.	Dolph Ziggler v. Chris Masters (SuperStars 5/13/10)
22.	John Cena/Edge/Chris Jericho/Bret Hart/John Morrison/R-Truth/Daniel Bryan v. The Nexus (SummerSlam 8/15/10)
23.	Rey Mysterio v. Luke Gallows (SmackDown 3/5/10)
24.	Shawn Michaels v. The Undertaker (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
25.	Goldust v. William Regal (SuperStars 8/12/10)


Other Contenders:

-	Christian v. William Regal (SuperStars 1/14/10) 
-	The Undertaker v. Rey Mysterio (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
-	William Regal v. Evan Bourne (SuperStars 3/4/10)
-	Rey Mysterio v. Luke Gallows (SmackDown 3/19/10)
-	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
-	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (Extreme Rules 4/29/10)
-	John Cena v. Sheamus (Raw 5/17/10)
-	Kofi Kingston v. Drew McIntyre (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
-	Chris Jericho v. Evan Bourne (Fatal 4-Way 6/20/10)
-	Drew McIntyre v. Kaval (SmackDown 9/10/10)
-	Rey Mysterio/The Big Show/Kofi Kingston/Chris Masters/MVP v. Alberto Del Rio/Jack Swagger/Cody Rhodes/Drew McIntyre/Tyler Reks (Survivor Series 11/21/10) 
-



I just cannot shake the feeling that I have Rey/Gallows too low. There are a few matches that left the top 25 that I didn’t expect to, but I’m OK with it. Even Masters/Dolph is way lower than I thought it might be but I look at everything above it and am like “no, yeah, they are better.” I really feel like I short-changed Rey/Gallows (it’s at 23 now but it’ll leave for sure). Might watch it again. And the re-match………


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, I watched the Liger/Pillman Meadowlands 12/27 match recently that is often pimped as their best one and better than the Superbrawl match. Thought it was really good with Pillman playing his own character well, but will have to watch SB soon to compare.

Havn't gotten around to watching the G1 match yet, didn't even know they had a match there until recently when I picked up the entire tourney on disc.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

@LilOlMe










NWO/Bullet Club hand sign.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

does anyone like shane mcmahon matches? i'm referring to the ones more so against Kane (2003 i believe), Kurt Angle (KOTR 2001), Vince (wrestlemania) and i think steve blackman at one point too (where he climbed the tron and fell backwards?)

i'm in the mood for shanes crazy matches atm


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I pretty much always liked Shane's matches. You were always guaranteed a crazy spot and they were heaps of fun. The SNME match against HBK is a forgotten good one too. Liked the one with Orton as well.

--------------------------------

Anything worth watching from WWE TV this week? Got a lot of catching up to do.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I pretty much always liked Shane's matches. You were always guaranteed a crazy spot and they were heaps of fun. The SNME match against HBK is a forgotten good one too. Liked the one with Orton as well.
> 
> --------------------------------
> 
> Anything worth watching from WWE TV this week? Got a lot of catching up to do.


Wait, what? A match against HBK? I don't remember this. Was that when DX were fueding with the mcmahons? (is snme on the network) i want to watch this right now


----------



## -Skullbone- (Sep 20, 2006)

I like the McMahon mindset of where they're happy to take just about anything. Their investment is understandable due to the positions in the company, but they really put themselves through the ringer. Big props.

Just got through Cena and Owens from EC. Good watch, though Cena once again sprinting from the end of one sequence to the next is somewhat frustrating. The major thing that has me once again questioning how WWE choose to handle their booking is how this will be followed up. We have an upcoming rematch yes? I imagine people are terrified that Cena will get his win back, but that isn't the central concern for me. In my mind, THIS was the star-making match. It had all the elements needed to have Owens stand triumphant and remain standing tall going into whatever program was next. He played the intensely cocky dickhead, the frustrated and slightly unsure 'rookie', the savvy ring worker and the heel victor; with the declaration at the end of the match signalling his arrival as a major player. I felt this was a perfectly appropriate context for the 'signing-off' for the feud. 

But hang on? This was their FIRST match? All that...in their FIRST match? With the inevitable rematches to follow? I might be sounding a little doom and gloom about this, but I have to wonder if the booking of the feud for a long-term situation is going to kill off some steam. I doubt the company's capacity to step up this feud's story even further from what was on display at EC (which was fantastic).

You never know though. Owens is a HHH project, and I believe Cena is quite a fan of the performer himself. I'm sure there will at least be attempts from their end to provide protection for Owens and preserve his heat over the next few months.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KENNY said:


> Wait, what? A match against HBK? I don't remember this. Was that when DX were fueding with the mcmahons? (is snme on the network) i want to watch this right now


March 18, 2006 Saturday Night's Main Event. Should definitely be on the network. Check it out.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> March 18, 2006 Saturday Night's Main Event. Should definitely be on the network. Check it out.


Thank you. 

I might re watch the matches against Kane too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shane's matches with Kane are awful. AWFUL. His other matches are usually pretty good though . Everyone with half a brain knows his match against Angle in 2001 is epic. Only retarded fucknuts don't like it. Retarded fucknuts with vaginas. From Australia.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Those matches with Michaels were very bad. They tried to do a brawling style match, but neither guy knew how to throw a good worked punch. And the rest of the match was just filled with stupid interferences and setting up spots.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

Big Cal's World said:


> Shane's matches with Kane are awful. AWFUL. His other matches are usually pretty good though . Everyone with half a brain knows his match against Angle in 2001 is epic. Only retarded fucknuts don't like it. Retarded fucknuts with vaginas. From Australia.


I actually liked their ambulance match, pretty crazy shit.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Speaking of Shane matches, does anyone remember that one match he had with Cody Rhodes on WWE Superstars in 2009? It's ton's of fun and an overlooked gem. No one ever talks about it and would like to hear everyone's thoughts on it.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I pretty much always liked Shane's matches. You were always guaranteed a crazy spot and they were heaps of fun. The SNME match against HBK is a forgotten good one too. Liked the one with Orton as well.
> 
> --------------------------------
> 
> Anything worth watching from WWE TV this week? Got a lot of catching up to do.


Rollins V J&J was tons of fun and Reigns/Neville/Orton V Kane/Kofi/Sheamus was pretty good.

Anyone think Kofi has really upped his game since he went heel? Like everyone in here I've always hated him but he's impressed me a lot lately.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

Irrelevant said:


> Speaking of Shane matches, does anyone remember that one match he had with Cody Rhodes on WWE Superstars in 2009? It's ton's of fun and an overlooked gem. No one ever talks about it and would like to hear everyone's thoughts on it.


Wut? Is this legit? During that HHH vs Legacy feud, I assume. Seems pretty random though.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

This MITB match is not good thus far, IMO. For the first time that I can remember for a MITB match, it's just taken the formula from every other multi-man match where they have two guys in the ring fighting and everyone else taking a nap on the outside and switching in.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

That was quite bizzare and very unexpected to me but hey if we get Brock/Sheamus in a ring now, that would be fine by me.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

The Money in the Bank match was alright. A little bit of stalling at times and the finish is a giant meh for me. I'm a Sheamus fan but how many pushes is he gonna get?



Fighter Daron said:


> Wut? Is this legit? During that HHH vs Legacy feud, I assume. Seems pretty random though.


Yup. Shane faced Cody on Superstars while Batista wrestled Ted Dibiase Jr. on Smackdown for the build-up to Triple H/Shane/Batista vs. Legacy at Backlash 2009. You should check it out. It's a really fun match.

What was also awesome is Taker appearing on that same episode of WWE Superstars and wrestling Matt Hardy that night. That was pretty rad.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Big Cal's World said:


> Shane's matches with Kane are awful. AWFUL. His other matches are usually pretty good though . Everyone with half a brain knows his match against Angle in 2001 is epic. Only retarded fucknuts don't like it. Retarded fucknuts with vaginas. From Australia.


I'll take my sub-half-brain that enjoys good wrestling over a full-half-brain that enjoys Angle/McMahon. Yeah, I SAID IT. I'll take the vagina too. Australia maybe not.

There's another PPV on today? :lmao


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

this show has not been good thus far


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I enjoyed the first two matches mainly because of the fuckery finishes. MITB took a while to get going but THANK YOU WYATT. Please give me Lesnar vs. Sheamus. Paige vs. Nikki was actually a really solid match. Ryback vs. Big Show was solid before the god awful finish. Why the fuck is Miz involved in this?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Owens/Cena are having the MOTY right here.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Owens/Cena possibly becoming my favorite feud of all time.

I hope it never ends.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Gonna go *** 3/4 on Cena/Owens II. A worthy successor to the original but it was a bit too heavy on the nearfalls. Some really cool shit we've never seen before though. Great sprint.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

You hear people in the industry talking about the need to cool down the cool factor of heels to create the now elusive irredeemability. Well, we just saw a hell of an effort followed by Owens booting Cena after the ultimate babyface respects him and then dastardly powerbombs him on the apron, stomps on the belt and jeers while manically laughing, and yet people are yesing and cheering. Yeah, that pretty much confirms that to come across as a booing scumbag to audiences in 2015, the bar literally is set at the Rated R bar of stealing someone's girlfriend and fucking them on live television.

edit: that or the Cena character is THAT damn despised.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

MITB match was awful. Awful choice for a winner too unless they want someone to lose the cash-in. If they have Sheamus actually win the title, then :lmao . He's already failed as a main eventer, keep him in the mid-card.

Nikki/Paige was a decent match but that ending. Also, lmao at Nikki, the heel, kicking out of Paige's finisher, but then Paige doesn't kick out of Nikki's. That's some ass backwards shit there.

Ryback/Show was bad.

Owens/Cena was AWESOME. Probably my #2 MOTY so far behind the Rumble triple threat.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Owens/Cena is my MOTY thus far, factoring in that post-match. ****3/4 IMO, just barely edging out the triple threat from the Rumble (although, I'll probably have to rewatch it).


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

What an amazing fucking match. Owens/Cena BROUGHT IT yet again. 

I don't even care that Cena won. People claiming thats a "burial" are infuriatingly stupid. 

Owens will win their last match and take the belt. 

**** 3/4


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

What a war Ambrose vs. Rollins was.

I loved it. Not those big bumps, but instead, a ladder match built on (year long) hate and Rollins trying to prove he could do it all alone. I loved it. Not quite on Owens/Cena level, but still great.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

liked the match, hated the ending


----------



## mezomi (Jul 13, 2013)

Ambrose vs Rollins was better than Owens vs Cena II in my opinion. Good story, good selling, good drama, good finish. It was fantastic! Decent show although the Money in the Bank match was a disappointment.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

KENNY said:


> liked the match, hated the ending


I liked it just because it made Ambrose look stronger. :lmao From an impartial point of view, Ambrose pretty much no sold two powerbombs into the barricade and another one on a pile of chairs and ladders on the floor, and then no sold getting buried under them. That would have been an appropriate ending, imo. Rollins shows his new aggressive side, proving he can do it on his own, Ambrose keeps fighting back, but eventually, it proves to be too much for him to overcome.

Oh well. I wonder if we get Ambrose vs. Rollins again with the ending we got. Five weeks build... breath of fresh air.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

The Ambrose vs. Rollins Ladder match was good minus the finish. Took a while to get things going but man what a war it was indeed. I just love how both men wouldn't let up and tried their hardest to put each other out. It started to get spotty towards the end though and it irked me a little bit. The finish sucked ass as expected since this PPV ran a muck with shitty finishes. Overall, it was a good main event match with a few flaws here and there. Just glad it was a step-up from their dull title match from Elimination Chamber.

Still have Owens vs. Cena II as my MOTN (and year) but Ambrose vs. Rollins left me entertained as well.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

That Ambrose & Rollins Ladder match was long as FUCK and lacked so much logic, but I liked so much of it at the same time.

The Pros: Rollins's performance was absolutely outstanding. Destroying Dean's knee, trash talking, bumping his ass off, etc. Dean's selling was pretty consistent throughout too. Props for that. They didn't setup any ridiculous looking spots and I give them credit for that. All of them felt realistic. It wasn't really like any other ladder match we've seen in recent years other than maybe Sheamus/Morrison.

The Cons: The length being the obvious one. They had a shit ton of time to eat up and they did just that. The loss of logic as well. Rollins would keep trying to run away, and Ambrose would run after him. Why not try to go for the title? Tough to put that in the back of my head while watching them run off into the crowd and up the ramp. Where's Sheamus? These two beat the fuck out of each other. All he had to do was come out, brogue kick someone, walk right up the ladder, and we have a new WWE Champion. Oh well. And lastly, why was the finish necessary? Rollins was gaining back all credibility and momentum with the complete destruction of Ambrose and Dean was still looking strong by the gutsy performance he'd given all night, so why the double grab? I didn't like that. 

I'm somewhere in the *** 1/2 - *** 3/4 range, but man it's a mixed bag of great stuff and head scratching moments. Rollins though man, ROLLINS.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

MITB: **3/4
Paige/Nikki: *3/4
Show/Ryback: *1/2
Owens/Cena: ****3/4
New Day/PTP: **
Ambrose/Rollins: ****


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

MITB Ladder Match - *** 1/4 (I know most were disappointed with this, but I had virtually no expectations going in so it worked imo. Marked out soooooo hard at Wyatt costing Reigns the match after he had been dominating everyone. Neville had a great showing and Orton hit a bunch of RKOs. There was quite a bit of people disappearing though, so I understand the complaints. Sheamus likely won so he could try and cash in on Lesnar and fail. :lol Gotta love the fiery home state Ziggler performance too)

Nikki vs. Paige - IDK but I enjoyed it a good margin. One of the best non-NXT Divas matches I've seen in quite some time. Though Paige was winning this one for sure, but the way they had Nikki win (yet again) was pretty creative. 

Ryback vs. Big Show - ** 1/4 (This was totally fun until the stupid as fuck ending. Something I could see Yeah1993 pimping to someone had there been a true finish. Ryback suplex was impressive and I love how they started right outta the gate.)

Cena vs. Owens- *** 3/4 (Already posted thoughts on this)

New Day vs. PTP - Who knows? Match was basically nothing outside of the shocking finish. Seriously, who in the hell predicted that??? Not I.

Rollins vs. Ambrose - *** 1/2+ or something.

Thought it was a good show that could've used another match added. Cesaro? Harper & Rowan? Henry? Lucha Dragons? Some pretty surprising endings. Another unpredictable PPV.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cavs/Warriors IV: ****1/4

Steph Curry is one bad mamma jamma. Missed out on both MITB and the GoT Finale, so I'm gonna cover some ground by watching MITB. Finished the opener, and it was actually pretty good other than the stupid choice of winner. Let's be honest here. Sheamus isn't good enough to be a quality world champion.

:lmao All those divas looking at the monitor. I can only recognize one of them.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

Cena/Owens ***** MOTN :mark:

Rollins/Ambrose ****1/4


----------



## cena542007 (Apr 1, 2007)

Money in the Bank 2015:
***1/4 - Money in the Bank Ladder Match
** - Paige vs. Nikki Bella (c)
DUD - Ryback (c) vs. Big Show
****1/2 - Kevin Owens vs. John Cena
** - The New Day (c) vs. Prime Time Players
***1/2 - Ladder Match: Dean Ambrose vs. Seth Rollins (c)

Overall: ***1/4


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

*WWE Money in the Bank 2015*

*Kickoff: *R-Truth vs King Barrett 1/4*

Money in the Bank Ladder Match
Randy Orton vs Neville vs Kane vs Dolph Ziggler vs Kofi Kingston vs Sheamus vs Roman Reigns ***

*WWE Diva's Championship*
Nikki Bella (c) vs Paige *

*WWE Intercontinental Championship*
Ryback (c) vs Big Show 1/4*

Kevin Owens vs John Cena ****

*WWE Tag Team Championship*
New Day (Big E & Xavier Woods) (c) vs The Prime Time Players *

*WWE World Heavyweight Championship - Ladder Match*
Seth Rollins (c) vs Dean Ambrose **1/2 (_0 Selling_)

Overall Rating: 6.0


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

@rabid wolverine, I have Pillman's & Benoit's DVDs, so I will definitely watch the Liger matches that are on those.

@yeah, judging by my history, the Owen/Liger match I watched was from 1991. I do think that I didn't watch the whole thing, though, so maybe I'll give it another shot.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> That Ambrose & Rollins Ladder match was long as FUCK and lacked so much logic, but I liked so much of it at the same time


I was thinking the same thing about logic. There was a point where Seth ran toward Dean, which made no sense, since he KNEW that the ladder bridge was there at the time. No one would do that, and you could see the reversal coming a mile away.

Also, Seth was on the ladder, and kicked or did something to Dean, to the point where Dean fell off the ladder and went into the ropes and was just resting there. The natural reaction would be to climb up and get the belt. Seth just gets off it to go after Dean for no reason.

I know most people will focus on the logic of the ending, but those moments really stood out to me.

To answer your question about WWE this week: Can't remember much from RAW, but watch the Lana/Michael Cole/Rusev segment from Smackdown this week. It aired right before the Zigger vs. Rollins match.

Lana and Zig don't have much chemistry when they're out there with each other, but Lana did a really nice job of acting like she was infatuated with Zig. Some of the lines were purposely meant to be ridiculous. Rusev's performance was great, as usual, and made the segment.

The six man tag from Smackdown was fun, if you enjoy Xavier's antics on the outside. "A dropkick from the heavens!!!" :lol

ETA: Plus, Randall doing Neville's flipping with him, with his hands, lol: 
http://xumera.tumblr.com/post/121411382515


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

King Barrett vs. R-Truth:* NO!*
Money in the Bank Contract Ladder Match: ****1/4*
Paige vs. Nikki Bella: ****
Big Show vs. Ryback: *NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS*
Kevin Owens vs. John Cena: *****1/2*
New Day vs. Prime Time Players: ***3/4*
Dean Ambrose vs. Seth Rollins: *****1/2*

Ditto the feelings that JE 187 had on the Money in the Bank match. Not a bad match even if there was a lot of downtime for individual wrestlers. Neville, Orton, Kofi, and Sheamus all had good showings. Harmless fun.

Kevin Owens and John Cena somehow surpassed their prior bout, which I was confident would not happen. God damn, that might have been Cena's best performance in the post-Punk world. Callbacks after callbacks. Cena's frustration was presented perfectly, especially when he argued with the ref. Owens has the best moveset in the WWE. I do think they could have worked the match a bit slower so that each big move would have a bigger impact, but nonetheless this was a terrific contest. Kevin Owens is the best wrestler of 2015.

I don't see what was so bad about the tag title match. Yes it was short, but that meant that it didn't overstay its welcome. Darren did a good job of selling, and Big E and Xavier had a wonderful control segment. That abdominal clap stretch in particular was hilarious. Titus had a very hot tag. The finish I guess was abrupt, but the crowd reacted well.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I was the biggest fan in this thread of the Elimination Chamber main event, and I have to be the biggest fan of the MITB main event. Those two can never do any wrong together. Not a spotty ladder match, but a very physical one with a grind it out pace that works perfectly for a match that is this late into the feud. Back to the concept of pace, but I love how one of Dean Ambrose's strategies in a match while on offense is to change the pace of the match to fit his style. The fight turns slower and more methodical and grimy with him in control, but unlike Orton, Ambrose does a great job of keeping the offense interesting. Extra points for his improved strikes.

Have to disagree with vampire guy on the no selling argument. On the contrary, Ambrose put on a selling performance that rivals Morrison's in 2010 against Sheamus. The choice of having Rollins take control by attacking Ambrose's knee was a picture perfect transition. Made Rollins look both strategic and intelligent as well as vicious. And as we all know, Rollins in control is flawless. The man can stare at thin air and draw heat. And don't forget about his trash talking. The spirit of Mark Henry lives on through Seth.

Back to the importance of transition spots and the choice to make this match less spotty. I was impressed by how much the crowd popped when Ambrose tilted the ladder while Seth was somewhat high up on it. It wasn't a huge drop, but the crowd reacted, and it allowed Dean to take control for a short period. It seems like a common theme among the transition spots is that they involve each guy countering a move that they've experienced from the other so many times before. For instance, Seth stopped Dean's rush by countering the Nigel lariat with the ladder. We never really got those annoying moments where one guy performs a big move on another, but that guy still somehow ends up on the defensive after performing the big move. Everything made sense.

I can go on for another ten paragraphs about all the things I loved about each and every sequence in the match, but it's time to talk about the finishing stretch. For the second straight Ambrose/Rollins match, I have to say that I loved the ending even though everyone else doesn't. What it accomplishes is that Rollins gets as close to a clean victory as possible to make himself look great, but Ambrose has a legitimate grievance that he can carry on after the match. I don't recall an ending like the one in that match where both guys tugged the belt like they did here, but it's always been a visual that I wished to see in a ladder match some day. Another smaller issue seems to be that some folks thought Ambrose shouldn't have gotten back up after all those powerbombs, but I equate Ambrose's rush of energy to that of Jerry Lawler in his second LLT match against Bill Dundee. It created an additional moment of drama that wouldn't have been there if Rollins just walked up the ladder and grabbed the title without Ambrose in sight.

So as you can tell, I loved that main event. Loved it so much that it's my new MOTY. Loved it so much that I would go as far as to put it above Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon. And as for the PPV as a whole, it definitely was a great show. Outside of last year's event, Money in the Bank has churned out top tier PPVs. Keep this gimmick show and get rid of all the others.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Kind of weird that they had Neville and Kofi in the match, but they didn't do any high spots. Neville hit his Red Arrow, but it was his normal one on the rope. I feel like 10 years ago, surely they would have had him do it from the top of the ladder. I think they're much more concerned about safety now. 

I liked the match, just because I liked Reigns not winning, but now that I think of it, they could have done a lot more with Neville and Kofi. The New Day appearance was good, but there could have been more fuckery as far as that was concerned.

Dolph had a good showing, and lol @ him opening himself up AGAIN with headbutts.


I agree with Jack Evans that the Ambrose/Seth match felt looooong, but I did LOVE the viciousness at the end.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well, at least Cena vs Owens was worth seeing.

/review


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Sheamus won the briefcase? :aries2

Cena/Owens sounds great which I'm pleased about, looking forward to seeing if it rates better than EC. I said Cena would win the match beforehand so im not surprised, guess we'll see where they take it from here, Battleground and/or Summerslam.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He was the only other choice in the match to win. It's a gimmick dominated by heels, after all. That's why Reigns winning it felt like it was an impossible task.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

I thought Ambrose/Rollins was definitely MOTN.

Whilst I loved Owens/Cena, a lot of it was just a rehash of the match at Elimination Chamber. The only part of the match that made this one better was the ending.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Obfuscation said:


> Well, at least Cena vs Owens was worth seeing.
> 
> /review


Well Cody's post saves me some time writing my thoughts .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I did think Reigns might win it tbh, but not with a heel turn of any kind as they are not going to turn him heel anytime soon imo, so i guess Sheamus to them was the next obvious choice.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Buy real/fake Israel passports,

Might take you up on that...

Looking forward to seeing Owens/Cena, dunno if I'll bother with Ambrose/Rollins. I love their chemistry more than any other combination in WWE history but I'm beyond pissed that Rollins won, Ambrose wins and Reigns cashes in, IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.

Sheamus with the briefcase is ridiculous, I've praised WWE recently because since Mania they've been doing quite well but last night they took 5 steps back IMO.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

LilOlMe said:


> Also, Seth was on the ladder, and kicked or did something to Dean, to the point where Dean fell off the ladder and went into the ropes and was just resting there. The natural reaction would be to climb up and get the belt. Seth just gets off it to go after Dean for no reason.


Oh yeah, I remember this one too. I was like "why did you get off the ladder?" Pretty sure they just had to kill some time, which you could see coming from a mile away when the match started at 10:20 PM. Still think they should've had an impromptu contest. Harper & Rowan vs. Lucha Dragons would've been perfect to get the crowd goin.



Ryan193 said:


> Sheamus with the briefcase is ridiculous, I've praised WWE recently because since Mania they've been doing quite well but last night they took 5 steps back IMO.


Don't speak too soon. I still think this somehow leads into Sheamus vs. Lesnar, and who wouldn't wanna see that? Sheamus may have just won so he can have a failed cash in to continue making Lesnar look strong as well.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Thoughts on the best Cena/Orton match?


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

KENNY said:


> Thoughts on the best Cena/Orton match?


I've heard good things about their SummerSlam '07 match, and nothing but shit about all the others, so that'd be the one I checked out first. That's all hearsay, though; I've never actually watched one.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Most people in this thread would probably go with No Way Out 2008 being their best encounter. Summerslam '07 pisses me off whenever I watch it because I hate the ending and I don't think many people praise it in this thread either tbh. I don't even remember my rating for it. Some people love their Breaking Point match, but I'm definitely not one of them. Hell in a Cell is average (the 2nd one, haven't seen the first). Never saw the TLC and Royal Rumble '14 is decent. They have an early 2014 RAW match that most of us can tolerate. OH and that Ironman match. I've never seen it but there's actually a good amount of positivity around it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Watch No Way Out 2008 and stay away from the others. I have no clue what people saw in that Breaking Point match. Orton did all the work, but then LOLCENAWINS. Man what a dark time in WWE that was.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Should watch Breaking Point because Orton is hilarious in it. Looks like a 9 nine year old imitating Best Anime Villain as voted by 4chan.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Don't speak too soon. I still think this somehow leads into Sheamus vs. Lesnar, and who wouldn't wanna see that? Sheamus may have just won so he can have a failed cash in to continue making Lesnar look strong as well.


Me 

I' don't like Sheamus that much, I can tolerate him as a midcard workhorse but have absolutely no desire to see him anywhere near the top of the card.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Ryan193 said:


> Me
> 
> I' don't like Sheamus that much, I can tolerate him as a midcard workhorse but have absolutely no desire to see him anywhere near the top of the card.


This for me. Couldn't have said it better myself. The guy is only entertaining when he's wrestling, and even then there's a better version of him in Cesaro. Sheamus has already been tried in the main event, it didn't work out. FFS give Cesaro a chance in that role. Give Barrett a chance in that role. They might fail too, but let them have a title run and see what happens.

That being said, I'm cool with Lesnar/Sheamus as long as Sheamus fucks off afterwards. I'm also fine with Sheamus at the MITB holder... just as long as he doesn't win the title (I think he will and that's my big concern in all of this).


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> This for me. Couldn't have said it better myself. The guy is only entertaining when he's wrestling, and even then there's a better version of him in Cesaro. Sheamus has already been tried in the main event, it didn't work out. FFS give Cesaro a chance in that role. Give Barrett a chance in that role. They might fail too, but let them have a title run and see what happens.
> 
> That being said, I'm cool with Lesnar/Sheamus as long as Sheamus fucks off afterwards. I'm also fine with Sheamus at the MITB holder... just as long as he doesn't win the title (I think he will and that's my big concern in all of this).


I'd only want to see Sheamus/Lesnar if Brock was on a full time schedule, with him being on a limited schedule I'd hate a Brock match to be wasted on Sheamus. There's at least a dozen guys I'd rather see him face.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Giving Cesaro the contract would have been the most sensible decision possible. I seriously don't understand the apprehension behind giving that man a singles push.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

*WWE: Money in the Bank; 14/06/15
*
1. Roman Reigns vs. Sheamus vs. Randy Orton vs. Neville vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Kane vs. Kofi Kingston – _Money in the Bank Ladder Match_: The match was quite long, there were some spots that worked very well like the RKO off the ladder to Neville or Reigns' powerbombs, there were also a couple of interferences that helped them keep the pace. Not many stops and it worked as an opener heating it up. Very good match, very entertaining. ***3/4

2. *WWE Intercontinental Championship:* Ryback vs. Big Show: Short match that was quite better than what I expected due to the few but well-worked spots(Ryback suplex or Show chokeslam). The intereference helped here too, though the ending was kind of ugly. I expected something so much boring given the participants. *3/4

3. Kevin Owens vs. John Cena: To rate this match, I have to compare it with their match from two weeks ago. First of all, the crowd was much more into it, though they nearly lost them in the middle section of the fight, but they could get them again through the final sequence. Then, I have to say that the transictions were better executed, but they had a couple of botches and the match overrall felt a little akward, they also repeated a lot of spots from the previous match that were absolutely spectacular, but lost the surprise factor. The ending of the match was quite worse than the one they had at Elimination Chamber for the obvious reasons being the greatest Owens fan ever, but great match nontheless. I wanna see the next chapter, so it worked perfectly. ****1/4

4. *WWE Tag Team Championship*: New Day vs. Prime Time Players: Quite short match and I was caught by surprise missing Kofi here, I don't notice him when he's wrestling, but well, at least Big E is here and that's what really matters. Titus is slightly over, but he lacks a lot of skills in the ring for my taste. **

5. *WWE World Heavyweight Championship*: Seth Rollins vs. Dean Ambrose – _Ladder Match_: This match...I was so confused, I had opposing feelings about this one. The match was long, though I didn't get the impression that they were wasting time at any time, on the other hand, Dean' selling wasn't as consistent as the force and intesity of Seth's offense to his leg required. The spots were simply GREAT and the finish...ugh it was ugly. But the match featured so BRILLIANTLY what the storyline needed and that is an ABSOLUTE WAR and, in the end, that's why I want to see this. When Seth was like "fuck the title, I want to MURDER this guy", I lost my shit. If the finish had been better, I would have given this the full monty. ****3/4




KENNY said:


> Thoughts on the best Cena/Orton match?


I don't really love any of their matches because I don't really love anything Orton-related, but if I have to choose one, their Ironman match was quite enjoyable.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Giving Cesaro the contract would have been the most sensible decision possible. I seriously don't understand the apprehension behind giving that man a singles push.


Vince believes he's boring.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I've yet to watch MITB because my internet has been giving a lot of trouble since last night. Sounds like a fun show though.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Ambrose/Rollins ladder match I'd put at ****. It's an excellent match, but I hated the pacing of the majority of it. Felt like they were trying to kill time. It was just really really slow and dull for the first 70% of the match. The things that kept me into it were Rollins' leg work on Ambrose and Ambrose's selling... and that's another thing I don't get, the dislike towards Ambrose's selling. I thought he did a masterful job selling it, but still having his adrenaline rushes and making them look legit. There may have been a spot or two where maybe he could've sold the leg a bit more/not ignore it, but for the most part throughout the match and even after the match, he did a top notch job of looking like his leg was killing him and that, along with as I said Rollins' work on said leg, that kept the match afloat and the psychology was excellent. I absolutely loved the last 10 minutes or so of the match, especially when Rollins goes beast on Ambrose and nearly destroy him. I do think it was a bit far fetched that Ambrose, after getting thrown into the barricades and getting buried under the ladders and stairs still managed to get up and make it as close as it was, but at the same time as an Ambrose fan, I'm glad they went above and beyond. Plus the way Ambrose was selling, it made it believable. His leg wasn't all of a sudden miraculously cured and he ran up the ladder, but he crawled as quickly as he could and climbed as quickly with a bum leg as he could, and made it look really good. 

Definitely doesn't beat Cena/Owens for me, but might be PPV Main Event MOTY so far? That I'd agree with it I think. Top 10 of the year right now would be:

1) Lesnar/Rollins/Cena RR
2) Owens/Cena MITB
3) Bryan/Ziggler Raw 3/30
4) Bryan/Ziggler SD 3/19
5) Ambrose/Rollins Raw 5/4
6) Cesaro and Kidd/New Day ER
7) Ambrose/Rollins MITB
8) Lesnar/Reigns WM31
9) Neville/Cena Raw 5/11
10) Cesaro and Kidd/New Day PB


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Watched Owens/Cena and the main event today. There were things about Rollins/Ambrose that I liked, but the ending really didn't sit well. The match goes like 35 minutes, I think, which was way too long. They didn't need the brawling into the crowd, especially at the time in the match that it occurred, and some other little segments could have been axed. What I liked about the match was that it didn't rely on big spots. The leg work was good, and Ambrose did fine with it. The back body drop to the ladder on the outside was cool, even though the telegraphed some kind of spot using that just-setup ladder. The finish was just too ridiculous. Rollins hits too nasty powerbombs on the outside, then a sitout powerbomb on a ladder/chairs, buries Ambrose, only for Ambrose to miraculously recover and come close to winning. Either you do all of that and have Rollins climb easily, being cocky about it, or you don't do it and have a final standoff on top of the ladder. I get trying to keep Ambrose strong in a loss, but it was just too much. I enjoyed this match mostly more than any other match these guys have had (that I've seen), but they've failed more times than not. Just move Rollins on from Ambrose for a good while now, please. 

Owens/Cena was one of Cena's best singles matches in ages. Of course the Brock match last summer was great, but this is Cena putting forth the effort to change up his offense and put on a legitimately classic match. Cena showing anger when he didn't get the 3 counts after the Attitude Adjustments, and both guys hitting great counters to each others finishers, especially Cena jumping out of the powerbomb the first time, then the hurricanrana the next. I think expecting Owens to win two matches in a row against Cena (especially since they were his first matches on WWE television, not counting NXT) was asking a lot, but they did so well to book this match the way they did. I don't know if a blowoff match is even necessary, but given the way things ended, it's likely.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Rewatched Owens/Cena. Match didn't feel as physical or spontaneous as I would've liked and yeah some of those kickouts like last time were tiring towards the end, but it was a hell of a match in my book. One of the finest Cena performances in several years alongside that February 2014 Cesaro match. I actually liked the callbacks and the Cena "scouting" ala this time putting the knees up for the pseduo-swanton and moving on the moonsault setting the finish. That bit where Owens's resilience got to Cena and he started to desperately break from the white knight by arguing with the ref for a good length was money as was later when Cena didn't know what to do so he started to position Owens for a move, got lost and rethought it to change it up only to get caught in the process. The few "anything you can do I can do better" spots from Owens ala the electric chair powerbomb after Cena's electric chair drop and the mimicking Cena's 5 moves this time successfully was cool and I thought he again played a great not so little shit ala "how'd things work out for you last time" and I liked that Cena's resilience also frustrated the usually cool headed Owens. Crowd set a great atmosphere eating everything in the match up which makes things more fun for me to watch and if I am being honest, I usually don't care for Lawler's "playing the fan watching the match" style, but I actually thought it worked here and even though I don't think I have said this in forever, I thought King played a pretty good role here. Cole wasn't as obnoxious as usual albeit bias as hell for Cena.

I know we all have our own, but my gauge for the upper echelon of ratings is **** being a "great" match, ****1/4 being fantastic with the rest I have to think I am really watching a piece of the artform that wows me and when watching I think should go down as a classic to the varying degrees of 4.5-5. I am easier to enjoy a match than some here, but I'm seeing ***** being thrown around at Owens/Cena and we all have opinions, but I think we need to pump the breaks on that elusive, highest order rank. That said, I think this was fantastic, bordering a classic (I guess time will tell for that). *In my opinion, a strong ****1/4*. While I had more fun watching the RR triple threat, which I still find impossible to rate, I think this was by a decent margin the best match from an evaluation standpoint/fine points.

edit: by the way, I wrote about it earlier, but that post match was splendid and it is a shame that even all that didn't get the desired effect from the crowd.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

H said:


> Watched Owens/Cena and the main event today. There were things about Rollins/Ambrose that I liked, but the ending really didn't sit well. The match goes like 35 minutes, I think, which was way too long. *They didn't need the brawling into the crowd,* especially at the time in the match that it occurred, and some other little segments could have been axed. What I liked about the match was that it didn't rely on big spots. The leg work was good, and Ambrose did fine with it. The back body drop to the ladder on the outside was cool, even though the telegraphed some kind of spot using that just-setup ladder. The finish was just too ridiculous. Rollins hits too nasty powerbombs on the outside, then a sitout powerbomb on a ladder/chairs, buries Ambrose, only for Ambrose to miraculously recover and come close to winning. Either you do all of that and have Rollins climb easily, being cocky about it, or you don't do it and have a final standoff on top of the ladder. I get trying to keep Ambrose strong in a loss, but it was just too much. I enjoyed this match mostly more than any other match these guys have had (that I've seen), but they've failed more times than not. Just move Rollins on from Ambrose for a good while now, please.
> 
> Owens/Cena was one of Cena's best singles matches in ages. Of course the Brock match last summer was great, but this is Cena putting forth the effort to change up his offense and put on a legitimately classic match. Cena showing anger when he didn't get the 3 counts after the Attitude Adjustments, and both guys hitting great counters to each others finishers, especially Cena jumping out of the powerbomb the first time, then the hurricanrana the next. I think expecting Owens to win two matches in a row against Cena (especially since they were his first matches on WWE television, not counting NXT) was asking a lot, but they did so well to book this match the way they did. I don't know if a blowoff match is even necessary, but given the way things ended, it's likely.


I actually really liked the brawling in the crowd. I mean it wasn't anything amazing but I liked it because Rollins was being smart. He would draw Ambrose far from the ring and try to take him out and quickly get into the ring. Made a lot of sense given all the leg work. And speaking of the leg work I loved the selling. Sure a few moments where it wasn't perfect but that's going to happen with almost anyone and he was consistent with it. I loved how he would get adrenaline rushes and you would see him hobbling around super quick like a mad man. Ending was might have been over the top with the amount of stuff Ambrose got up from but it had me legitimately surprised. I was sure he wasn't getting up a couple of times and when he did get up he made me believe he was going to somehow pull it off. 

I loved the whole match. Better than 90% of modern WWE ladder matches that I've seen. It's somewhere in that upper echelon of ladder matches with Undertaker/Hardy, Sheamus/Morrison, and Jericho/Benoit. I will take it over all of the choreographed spotfests that we usually see.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ryan193 said:


> Looking forward to seeing Owens/Cena, dunno if I'll bother with Ambrose/Rollins. I love their chemistry more than any other combination in WWE history but I'm beyond pissed that Rollins won, Ambrose wins and Reigns cashes in, IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.


Of course it isn't rocket science. It's bad booking.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

I liked Cena/Owens II a little better than Cena/Owens I. Both are very, very good, but for some reason the "big move-kickout-big move" style they employ doesn't work for me in WWE the way it does in big puro matches or even sometimes on the indies. Thought Part I relied too heavily on this formula, while Part II had a bit more flow and coherence to it outside of the big spots. ***3/4 for both, but a higher ***3/4 for Part II, if that makes sense.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

oh man... Lesnar vs. Rollins one-on-one. I can't wait. :mark:


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

RatedR10 said:


> oh man... Lesnar vs. Rollins one-on-one. I can't wait. :mark:


Rollins is a hell of a seller who we know is good on the run/bringing the big spot when need be and Lesnar of course is a natural born juggernaut who can slip right into a hell of a predator role, so I think Rollins and Lesnar should do damn well with the 90sMichaels/Taker formula that I imagine will be employed. 

That 3 way while not the most structurally/fine point sound was the most entertained I have been by a wwe match all year (though I have Owens/Cena II as my current moty) and that Reigns match was imo. a ****, quite fun match. Add in what should if shenanigans are limited be at least a great match vs Rollins, hopefully Sheamus and Brock mix it up in with that PHYSICALITY :mark: some capacity and then throw something else in if need be and yeah that is a solid year one of three for the beast in my book ringwise given his contract. I'd take that.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Battleground is going to have Cena/Owens III and Lesnar/Rollins. Massive double main event. Looks like they'll add Sheamus/Orton in some sort of gimmick match which will stink. And of course there's Wyatt/Reigns which started off on the right foot today. Looking forward also to the PTP/New Day rematch. But the big question mark right now is Ambrose. Dude is the most over guy on the roster at the moment, and he doesn't have a feud set up. I like that he's still motivated to kill Rollins, but it looks like he won't have another shot anytime soon.

Sheamus vs. Dean Ambrose: ***
Kevin Owens vs. Dolph Ziggler: ***1/2
Neville/Young/Titus vs. New Day: ***

Good episode of RAW. Opener was great and both Rollins and Ambrose killed it. On any other night, this would be the best segment on the show. Owens/Ziggler was terrific and I would love to see them wrestle again. Ziggler is so good at teasing near falls because he's compiled a multitude of moves that help him finish matches, and he's lost matches enough so that a pinfall on him creates tons of suspense. Paige segment with the divas was shockingly not bad. Ryback is hilarious. Reigns/Wyatt segment was pretty good and I loved seeing Wyatt bringing up Reigns' daughter to get into his head. Of course, the feud is predictable as all hell but I like both guys so I'll try to have fun. Six man tag match was very fun and worth checking out. Neville and the Prime Time Players are over as hell.

Worth noting more than anything tonight is that Kevin Owens and Brock Lesnar are taking turns fighting over who the bigger badass is. The Lesnar/Rollins staredown at the end of RAW was perfect. Rollins sold fear and Lesnar portrayed dominance in perfect harmony. So excited for the forthcoming match as these two look like they have terrific chemistry. But despite all that, it still doesn't match what Kevin Owens did to Machine Gun Kelly. They're putting all the stops on making Owens into a star, and he's answered the call better than anyone else could. This man is a monster that has the mind of a Heenan or a Heyman. How often do we see a combination like that?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Ambrose vs. Kane seems eminent. Idk why but I don't know what else they could do with him. Unless they want to insert him into the WWE Title match, which is highly unlikely. Also this Ryback vs. Big Show vs. Miz feud is the absolute most random fucking thing ever. How can anyone care about that?

Orton vs. Sheamus Vol. 35? No thank you, please.

Thought Lesnar's shirt tonight was cool as all hell. Really wish I was still in Ohio so I could've attended and bought the damn thing. 

Anyone else think it's pretty apparent now that we're getting HHH vs. Rollins at Summerslam? Maybe Lesnar vs. Reigns II?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I'd agree. HHH/Rollins has to happen imo.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Oh yeah, I remember this one too. I was like "why did you get off the ladder?" Pretty sure they just had to kill some time, which you could see coming from a mile away when the match started at 10:20 PM. Still think they should've had an impromptu contest. Harper & Rowan vs. Lucha Dragons would've been perfect to get the crowd goin.


I came in on it late, so the timer was off on the network. That helped, but also made me unprepared for how looong the Seth/Ambrose match was. I felt that because of that, they were just throwing everything under the kitchen sink into it. They worked their asses off, but I think it would have been better if what happened toward the end was more the focus of the entire match.

The timer thing is the annoying part about watching things online or on Youtube. If you pause or rewind, you know how far you are or aren't into matches usually, which ruins suspense sometimes.




KENNY said:


> Thoughts on the best Cena/Orton match?


Summerslam '07 was really good aside from the ending, from what I remember. I think that it was their best pure wrestling match. 

No Way Out '08 was fun, and I quite like the Iron Man Match (Bragging Rights 2009). One of my favorite Orton performances, actually. 

Many seem to like the "I Quit" Breaking Point 2009 match, but be prepared for the shittiest ending ever.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Couple of comments about RAW:

*Ryback was great on commentary tonight, I thought. I usually dislike almost all guest commentators as a rule, because it's usually distracting as hell. However, Ryback was very low-key, chimed in at the perfectly opportune times, and didn't seem shticky as at all.

Who knew, but I think that he would make a good added commentator as a second career. People might not agree, because his personality wasn't big here, but that's exactly why I liked him. 

Also, I liked his voice and tone.

*As a side note, I was surprised by how well put together his body looked when he was just in the pants. I guess I just assumed that he was wearing the type of ring outfit that he wears, to hide his stomach. That's not the case, as he's in incredible shape. 

More importantly, his arms look less comic book like & he just looks less steroidy and fake in general when you see the whole upper half.

They need to just start putting him in shorts or pants or something. Something more flattering. Natalya's look changed dramatically in a positive way to me, when she started wearing shorts & the catsuit outfits, rather than the old outfits that she wore.

*Seth played that face off with Brock perfectly. Can't really complain, because the segment made sense, but it always seems like such a massive waste to me (including of money) to have Brock appear just to do shit like that. Meh.

*Wyatt's promo was great, and I liked Roman responding back. I really hope they go somewhere more with Wyatt referencing Reigns' daughter. Let him really menace the family. He might really get Reigns some sympathy.

*Weird shit going on in the Neville/PTP vs. New Day match. At first Neville & Darren genuinely seemed like they were having a disagreement on who should go first. Figured they would have worked that out in the back. Neville seemed a bit annoyed, especially when Darren ignored him twice, lol.

Then, it seemed like Titus wanted Neville to come into the ring with Neville being unaware of what Titus even wanted him to do. Neville is squinting his eyebrows like "huh?" and like they're having a silent convo the whole time. Then Titus is telling him to go, and Neville puts his out hands like "what? I'm unprepared" even as he's running. This was all genuine & not for show, and you'll see what I'm talking about if you watch. What was great is that Neville still nailed the move perfectly and naturally, even though in the midst of starting off the move, he was having this whole thing going on with Titus the whole time, and was unprepared. Shows you the natural talent.

And yeah, the crowd was popping like crazy for the Red Arrow. It's good that crowds aren't getting burnt out on that, even though that's mostly what is just being presented about Neville right now.

*Also, lol at Lana looking all distressed after she kissed Zig, but smiling when he turned around. Camera didn't focus on that, and the commentators didn't mention it, but I assume it's storyline. The WWE is so halfway committed to this shit, though, since they made no mention of it.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Cena/Owens was that style of match worked to perfection. It's a style I can't usually get behind but these two made it work something special. It didn't have the edge of your seat excitement of their first match for me, but the story they told while delivering a blockbuster highlight reel of a match deserves a lot of praise because not many guys can do that. Owens is my WOTY, but fuck me if Cena wasn't god level in this match. When he's doing what he did in this match, there isn't a single wrestler in the world that can touch him.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> Of course it isn't rocket science. It's bad booking.


It's a million times better than Sheamus with the briefcase and the likely Brock/Reigns rematch at Summerslam which nobody wants to see.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Might want to revise that absolute, chief.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Looking forward to Brock/Rollins, if booked right should be an excellent match.

So does it look like it's Reigns/Lesnar at SS, with Reigns winning the belt?

I loved the WM match but IMHO, Lesnar still shouldn't lose yet, esp at Summerslam and have a one month title reign.

But I've said before i cant see Brock winning the belt just yet, but how else is Battleground going to go down, esp with HHH/Rollins now seeming certain.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

A championship run only lasting one month for Brock would be fine. His last one was the long, ideal SummerSlam - WM gap & he rarely appeared for it (which did bother some folk). So being around for a few weeks w/another to have finality in the angle w/Reigns makes all the sense in the world. The scenario is bigger than any petty idea of "he wasn't champion long enough". That's the beauty w/Brock. It'll feel big in any situation. And a loss at SummerSlam is fairly ideal. Where else would he lose, WM? Again? Not worth it. Especially when you have to drag & stretch things out until then. Timing is right for Reigns, if that's the route.

It all seems easy enough to map out. The fear is it doesn't always come off as simple as it could be w/WWE.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Lesnar/Rollins is going to absolutely own. How do they go about it though? Lesnar absolutely DOMINATED Reigns, are they going to do the same against Rollins? Or are we going to see a more "architectural" approach by Rollins who will work the legs and try and chop him down? One thing I love about Lesnar is that he is damn good at professional wrestling and selling is a very very strong part of his game. I just hope they give them time, allow Rollins to get some offence in but the most interesting thing is how they finish it. This should be a Summerslam match and it's going to be happening at Battleground.

Reigns/Wyatt is off to a good start with the direction they look to be heading in but the match they had on Raw a few weeks back really wasn't good. I'm sure they could put on an all out war though if they just let the two throw bombs at eachother and give us a good old fashioned brawl. Will be interesting to see if Reigns can keep up with Wyatt for the next four weeks though.

Owens/Cena III should be fun, they won't be giving us the same spots as the first two matches I am sure of it so we will see some new things and will be interesting on how they go about ending it. You'd hope they'd have Owens go over and have him win the US title and then perhaps have Zayn come back from injury and thrust him into the feud so we get Owens/Zayn for the US title on the big stage. Where would Cena go from there though? He's been killing it in his current role. 

What about Ambrose? From Raw he is still after Rollins but where does he go from here? Everyone relevant are in feuds. Sheamus looks to be feuding with Orton for whatever reason. I hope we do not get a Kane feud, that's such a step down and the matches they had for the US title when Ambrose was champion was dreadful and his stock will fall. I wish they had built up his knee injury a bit more and kept him from wrestling or getting into another feud but had him out there getting his message across, causing havoc and cutting promos on the mic. A bit like Austin after his kneck injury.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Terry Funk marks, help a brother out, what should I watch (thats on the network) pls


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Everything. Duh. It's Terry fucking FUNK. Even his shit matches are worth seeing.

So, wrestling is interesting again for the first time in ages, all thanks to ONE man BEAST. :mark:


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

standouts i mean


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

What part of EVERYTHING did you not understand? This is TERRY FUNK. Even his bad matches are standouts. SHUT UP AND WATCH EVERY FUNK MATCH EVER.

Plus I have no idea what's on the network of his . The obvious Flair matches. Steamboat. A match with Tully in like 94 on PPV in WCW that people like (I didn't but what do I know?). Anything he did in WWF is probably worth it. FOLEY STREET FIGHT for sure.


----------



## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

The whole MITB PPV was incredibly awful. Glaring issues with every single match. The only thing actually that wasn't problematic in some way was the New Day promo, and they lost their tag titles in a throwaway feud for no reason.

I have no idea how people like this shit. Owens/Cena was overrated as FUCK and I really do like Owens. Half way through the match I thought it was good but it went way too long and there were way too many near-falls. Don't give me that "never give up" crap from either side because it was awfully overdone. Not to mention Cena having to get his victory after the loss yet again, and apparently having another 3+ month feud for some reason.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

random question, i know people loved cena/HBK from that RAW in 2007 (which i have to watch again), but how do people view their wrestlemania match?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KENNY said:


> random question, i know people loved cena/HBK from that RAW in 2007 (which i have to watch again), but how do people view their wrestlemania match?


WM I think in general is viewed as a great match. Around these parts I think it's mostly viewed as MOTN, although elsewhere it's mostly Taker/Batista. Either way, Cena/HBK I think was a great WM main event, and one of the better ones for sure.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aye their WM match is great. Not MOTN for me, but still great . Oh and if you haven't seen it yet KENNY, check out a certain HBK/Cena match from Raw in Jan 09 when HBK was working for JBL. Fantastic match that deserves to be talked about along side their 07 encounters .


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KENNY said:


> random question, i know people loved cena/HBK from that RAW in 2007 (which i have to watch again), but how do people view their wrestlemania match?


I have them both on the same level. Both are absolutely fantastic and MOTYC from '07. I like them both better than the Taker/Batista series in comparison.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Erik. said:


> Lesnar/Rollins is going to absolutely own. How do they go about it though? Lesnar absolutely DOMINATED Reigns, are they going to do the same against Rollins? Or are we going to see a more "architectural" approach by Rollins who will work the legs and try and chop him down? One thing I love about Lesnar is that he is damn good at professional wrestling and selling is a very very strong part of his game. I just hope they give them time, allow Rollins to get some offence in but the most interesting thing is how they finish it. This should be a Summerslam match and it's going to be happening at Battleground.



There's going to be a whole lot of fuckery and F5's to Jamie Noble.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Rah said:


> There's going to be a whole lot of fuckery and F5's to Jamie Noble.


That's what I'm afraid of. This is the chance for Rollins to really establish himself as a credible threat. He's shown that he's willing to cheat and do anything to win, now he needs to show that he isn't some scrub and that he can be a believable force on his own, even in a loss.

Best way to do this match would be for Lesnar to start out the match dominating, give him maybe a 5 minute shine period where he just whipes the floor with Seth. Then you have Noble and Mercury distract the ref for a second, have Seth pull a chair out from under the ring, then have him viciously gut shot Brock and then quickly dispose of the evidence. When the ref turns back around Seth is on top, and he works a strong 7-8 minute control period working over Brock's midsection with everything he has. Then Seth can get cocky and over confident, go for his Phoenix Splash and miss or something like that, then Brock makes his come back and finishes Seth off, if they indeed are putting the belt back on Brock.

They can make it believable if the announcers are competent and sell the diverticulitis thing with Brock. Seth is cunning enough to take advantage of it, even though it's not good sportsmanship. 

I just don't want to see endless interference in one of Brock's few appearances, and I don't want to see Brock humbled, either. This accomplishes both, I think. For reality sake, they can have J & J attempt to interfere in the end when Brock gets back on top, but then they can have Ambrose run out and take out both of them before they can do anything, screwing over his nemesis in the process.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

No way they're putting the belt on Brock unless they have him lose it straight away through MITB cash in or loses it after a month.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

KENNY said:


> random question, i know people loved cena/HBK from that RAW in 2007 (which i have to watch again), but how do people view their wrestlemania match?


I think that's a great match, worst than the one in London though. But Batista/Taker should have been the main event in my opinion, just a fucking hell of a match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Erik. said:


> No way they're putting the belt on Brock unless they have him lose it straight away through MITB cash in or loses it after a month.


I was figuring Brock would win it at Battleground then lose it at Summerslam to Reigns in a triple threat with Rollins. Just my hunch.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I was figuring Brock would win it at Battleground then lose it at Summerslam to Reigns in a triple threat with Rollins. Just my hunch.


Personally I see Rollins retaining due to some sort of DQ and a rematch between the two at Summerslam, perhaps even Ambrose involved in a triple threat of some sort. 

They tend to go all out at Summerslam so we may even see Ambrose leave Summerslam as Champion although I could see Sheamus cashing in.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

So long as Seth retains, I'm satisfied. And Sheamus must not cash in.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I was just thinking to myself recently about how I'd love to see this match and by golly it just happened!



Spoiler: Smackdown match for this week



Owens vs. Cesaro!



:mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I read that spoiler. And fecking GLAD I did.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Hope LilolMe gave some of that Liger J-Cup stuff a try - particularly against Pegasus (Benoit), Sasuke, Eddie, and even the 10/20/96 against Muta, which is a classic. There's a sort of respect that comes along with real talent. His longevity speaks for itself. Contributions, impact, and so on. But I digress...

Really enjoyed Cena/Owens II - It was great how Owens forced Cena into "doing more" - Owens imitating all Cena's signatures gave Cena a chance smirk at the "OMG 5MOVEZOFDOOM" club. Inverted suplex, Yoshi-Tonic, FrankenCena, and SuperMan Stunner. A lesser Lariat, but his bump and sell was strong most all of the night; much better than the last match I thought. I :lol for Cena taking the business to Chiota. He can take it to the edge of his 'good guy' image against Owens, which is great atmosphere as a viewer. 

Owens, so-gosh-darn despicably charismatic in his role, was noticeably more comfortable and raised his game despite the loss. I do believe they're on to something with him. And I think WWE knows it too this time, hence the need for the overbearing triple-AA onslaught and absolutely amazing post-match shenanigans. *****1/2* for me, and think the conclusion(?) of their feud at SS alone makes it must see.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Damn I cannot wait to view that much from this weeks Smackdown, two ridiculous performers that it's impossible to be shit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Liger vs Muta 10/20/96 is still like, you know, the greatest match ever in the history of professional wrestling.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Might be a top 15 Liger match of 1996 I guess.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The fun of it was waiting to see who showed up first: you or Cal.

I wonder if Cal would even remember those two if he didn't dislike like Muta or Liger didn't have an unforgettable look.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Well, I happened to watch:


> 2003-06-10 - Liger & Kanemoto vs. Marufuji & Kotaro Suzuki


What I've noticed is that Liger is good at the mechanics and some of the little details, so I do really like that. 

That double ankle lock submission that Kanemoto does looks really fucking cool.

Also watched this:


> 5/7/05 KENTA/Naomichi Marufuji vs. KUDO/Iifushi Kota (Differ Cup) [**** Meltzer rating]


...and Ibushi does a ridiculous no-sell of a piledriver on the runway, which would absolutely make people here crazy, lol.

Lastly I wanted to comment on:


> Koji Kanemoto Vs Yoshihito Sasaki Zero1 10 10 05


...and it's just 10 straight minutes of Kanemoto being a dick. That "pshht, fuck you then!" look he gives to the crowd after they booed him after he was laughing with pride at Sasaki being in pain was GREAT. One for the ages, actually. Like, one of my top facial moments ever. 

His face changed within an instant. 

Looked him up a bit on social media, and he writes a blog covering his travels and everything. It's so weird, because he seems like such a happy-going guy, and shares everything and lets his fans in on pictures of him eating dinner and staying in the hotel rooms & everything. I just love when the real personality seems so drastically different from the character. Shows you how talented some guys are.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Muta sucks. Go away Cody.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

LilOlMe said:


> Looked him up a bit on social media, and he writes a blog covering his travels and everything. It's so weird, because he seems like such a happy-going guy, and shares everything and lets his fans in on pictures of him eating dinner and staying in the hotel rooms & everything. I just love when the real personality seems so drastically different from the character. Shows you how talented some guys are.


That's always great. A DVDVR/WON forum/whatever regular interviewed Dick Togo sometime back and I got similar "whoa, this is a normal person" thing from it. I don't expect any of these guys to be dicks in real life or anything but just how 'normal' they come off takes you aback a little.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

*WCW Title*
Lance Storm vs. Booker T 

A very underrated gem from a 2000 episode of Nitro, from the time where Storm was holding three titles, United States, Cruiserweight and the Hardcore. Good amount of back and forth action between both men and you're entertained from the start of the match, absolutely brutal Book End to win the match too, Storm sold it like an absolute pro.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Cal's World said:


> Muta sucks. Go away Cody.












10/10 selling


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Well as we talking Liger and i mentioned the Liger/Sano match. Here is what 
i wrote about them when i watched them a couple of months ago for anyone interested: 

Jushin Liger vs Naoki Sano (13/7/1989)
Jushin Liger & Akira Nogami vs Kantaro Hoshino & Naoki Sano (8/8/1989)
Jushin Liger vs Naoki Sano (WPW, 10/8/1989)
Jushin Liger vs Naoki Sano (20/9/1989, JIP)
Jushin Liger vs Naoki Sano (31/1/1990)

Watched the main Liger/Sano stuff today. Even from that first match IMO, you could
tell these two would go onto to have a classic at some stage, not the cleanest
of matches, a few missed, sloppy moments, and the finish was very abrupt, a double
turnbuckle suplex with both men down for the 10 count, but overall a fine first match.

The tag match is an important addition IMO, as the content in the match, plays
into the second Sano singles match, as in the tag, both Sano & Hoshino work over
Liger's arm. Well when i say worked over, fucking DESTROYED is the word
i should be looking for. Match took place just two days prior to the second Sano bout. 

So onto the (WPW, 10/8/1989) match. Liger came in still selling the effects of getting
his left arm destroyed 2 days pervious. Sano went onto to target the arm early on, and throughout the match, Liger sold it as well as anyone i have seen TBH, as he did in the tag match. If there were an Oscar for it, Liger would win one hands down. Sano would win the title with a back suplex, but with Liger hurt throughout, the next match against fully fit Liger will be interesting.

Sadly, the next match (20/9/1989, JIP) is cut in half, so some of the match is missing (damn JIP matches). Sano retains with a Tiger Suplex.

1/31/90 is next, the celebrated classic. Liger debuts his now famous outfit. From the 
opening handshake when Liger slaps Sano in the face, which of course pisses him off
and he goes onto tear into Liger, and rips at his mask furiously. Sano is great at
playing the dickhead in this match esp, and the mask ends up pretty much ripped off, the secret is out. Liger hits the SSP for the first time under the mask in this one. Just a great fight. Legendary.

Get on this shit.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> That's always great. A DVDVR/WON forum/whatever regular interviewed Dick Togo sometime back and I got similar "whoa, this is a normal person" thing from it. I don't expect any of these guys to be dicks in real life or anything but just how 'normal' they come off takes you aback a little.


That's always cool, but I like it even more where you have a guy like Terry Funk who is a complete lunatic in the ring, and also completely bat shit crazy in real life. Or Ric Flair being the exact same person in real life as he is in wrestling, same with Brock Lesnar. It's funny to me when someone is just so ridiculous in real life that they don't even need to have a wrestling character, they don't need to emphasize one part of their real personality and hide other parts, they are just good to go from the moment they wake up until the moment they go to sleep. You could say the same about Cena and Steamboat I guess. but its not nearly as interesting to me that they are real honest to goodness Boy Scouts in real life and in the ring. 

Of course, MICK Foley is probably the best example of "really? This guy is 100% normal in real life?"


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Regarding Liger:

Of the original Liger/Sano series, the 8/10/89 match is probably the one that'll be the most pimped here, since Liger sells the ever-loving crap out of his arm and it's beautiful. 1/31/90, however, is the super-classic.

Then there's 2/9/97 vs. Ohtani. This is probably best regarded for Ohtani's performance, but it's still must-see Liger. (Their 3/17/96 match is not quite as good, but it's still better than about 90% of matches you'll ever see.)

4/30/92, vs. El Samurai, is must-see.

4/28/91 is the Owen Hart match you'll be most recommended, and rightly so.

He has two matches against the Great Sasuke in '94, one in the Super J Cup tournament (4/16) and one that July, that are must-see.

12/13/95 is his best match with Ultimo Dragon, which makes it one of his best matches, period.

6/12/96 vs. Black Tiger (Eddie) is must-see and must-love.

11/1/90 is, IMO, his best match with Pegasus Kid (Benoit).

There are more -- so, so many more -- and, as with Kanemoto and Marufuji, my best advice is to just go to Ditch's sites and do a search for "Liger." (Pay special attention to the '90s sections if you aren't overly thrilled with his '00s output, though I think you're missing a lot of gems there.) You won't find anything that isn't at least worth watching.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Dang I don't remember that Benoit/Liger. Best match I've seen from the two of them is 2/10/92 (two days after a Liger/Honaga which is just as good). Ha, I remember first joining this this board and watching the one on the Benoit WWE DVD and saying it was the best match I'd ever seen. I think that's the one in August.

I gotta see Liger/Ohtani from 97 again. I didn't like it when I watched it four years ago.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Ooohhh. Never seen a Honaga match. Must get on that ASAP -- and your Benoit rec, since I seriously doubt there are any bad ones.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Never thought I would say this, but John Morrison of all people put on a performance reminiscent of Rick Rude in tonight's ironman match.

Solid episode of NXT. Six human tag to open up was fun, although Blake and Murphy have to progress of resthold Randy offense at some point. Finn Balor and Becky Lynch videos were very well done and they added to both of their characters. Samoa Joe cut a nice short promo that subtly referenced his past work with ROH and TNA. Owens/Joe was a fun brawl that acts as a teaser for their future war that they will have.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That's always cool, but I like it even more where you have a guy like Terry Funk who is a complete lunatic in the ring, and also completely bat shit crazy in real life. Or Ric Flair being the exact same person in real life as he is in wrestling, same with Brock Lesnar. It's funny to me when someone is just so ridiculous in real life that they don't even need to have a wrestling character, they don't need to emphasize one part of their real personality and hide other parts, they are just good to go from the moment they wake up until the moment they go to sleep. You could say the same about Cena and Steamboat I guess. but its not nearly as interesting to me that they are real honest to goodness Boy Scouts in real life and in the ring.
> 
> Of course, MICK Foley is probably the best example of "really? This guy is 100% normal in real life?"


Topical sake says Kevin Owens. he's a good one given he has a lot of material prior to WWE that shows how common/chill of a dude he is, despite having a tendency to play a mega bully as a character.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> That's always great. A DVDVR/WON forum/whatever regular interviewed Dick Togo sometime back and I got similar "whoa, this is a normal person" thing from it. I don't expect any of these guys to be dicks in real life or anything but just how 'normal' they come off takes you aback a little.


Yeah, exactly. Even the fact that Kanemoto was smiling in virtually every pic was surprising to me, because I feel like most wrestlers in general tend to not smile a lot in pictures.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Never thought I would say this, but John Morrison of all people put on a performance reminiscent of Rick Rude in tonight's ironman match.
> 
> Solid episode of NXT. Six human tag to open up was fun, although Blake and Murphy have to progress of resthold Randy offense at some point. Finn Balor and Becky Lynch videos were very well done and they added to both of their characters. Samoa Joe cut a nice short promo that subtly referenced his past work with ROH and TNA. Owens/Joe was a fun brawl that acts as a teaser for their future war that they will have.


Checked out the Balor & Becky Lynch piece because of your comment, thanks.

Really well done, and it was touching how emotional Becky was. 

Since we're on the topic of personalities outside of wrestling (and this clip kind of supports it), I watched a documentary on Finn/Devitt that's on DailyMotion. I was like "wow, Devitt's kind of boring" which is funny, and a bit of a dichotomy, given how much thoughts he put into the Bullet Club and his stage presentation and things like that.

I didn't think that in a negative way, btw, just more amused. Like, wow, he's really unassuming & seems a bit "plain" as a person. Opposite from what you would think a person behind this type of creativity would be like.



As for Liger, I will be getting into some of his matches soonish. Lately I've been on a Kanemoto kick.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That's always cool, but I like it even more where you have a guy like Terry Funk who is a complete lunatic in the ring, and also completely bat shit crazy in real life. Or Ric Flair being the exact same person in real life as he is in wrestling, same with Brock Lesnar. It's funny to me when someone is just so ridiculous in real life that they don't even need to have a wrestling character, they don't need to emphasize one part of their real personality and hide other parts, they are just good to go from the moment they wake up until the moment they go to sleep. You could say the same about Cena and Steamboat I guess. but its not nearly as interesting to me that they are real honest to goodness Boy Scouts in real life and in the ring.
> 
> Of course, MICK Foley is probably the best example of "really? This guy is 100% normal in real life?"



I think the answer to your question would probably be Stan the man Hansen. Sure, those who read my occasional posts in here know I am a big Stan Hansen mark, but we are talking about a man who projects as one of the surliest SOB's with batshit crazy promos that sometimes even outshined his brief great manager Freddie Blassie and a man who has popped a 400 plus pound man's eye out, frequently spits chewing tobacco at fans, whips a fucking bullrope with a cowbell attatched at opponents, beats the ever living shit out of jobbers even beyond kayfabe, SOMETIMES GETS IN THE CROWD AND GETS IN THE FACE OF PUERTO RICANS TO TALK SHIT AFTER HURTING THEIR HERO CARLOS CALON TO INCITE HEAT (I cap that for how insane that is) and hell there is more batshit crazy stuff in the Calon/Hansen series ala the visual of a bloodied Hansen who goes on a rampage around the park with a visual of his arm deadened and his face bloodied missing the lariat and hitting the post.

All this and the man according to the Jim Ross interview is a grateful, ultimately humble man who is genuinely thankful for his opportunities to be in the ring with opponents putting over alot of people as not just great talents but great guys, and especially putting over partners and is a man who likes to operate on trust and is all about his kinfolk/family and actually holds a degree in education. Hell, despite being a highly successful, one of a kind guy who I think is one of the best to ever do it Stan is even quite excited and grateful that fans would remember who he is. Guy is quite a normal hard worked man outside of his very limited vision, but hell, of the select few who achieve, so few leave the business without effects after having a career around the caliber of stans. I'll throw BamBam on there too in the normalcy department when he wouldn't strike ya as such. 

Axl Rotten shocked me on TIJ with how normal he seemed and how his personal views are so polar opposite to how his career is ultimately remembered. I don't know if Kane can be considered "normal" when he is a self admitted heavily reading hermit who is so big into politics that he is invited to speak at Ron Paul rallies/BBQs, but in terms of being polar opposite of persona, he has to be up there.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

According to Meltzer, every time Cena loses his merchandise sales take a hit. That's why he always gets the second victory. We know he outsells everyone by a wide margin, but is that dip not mitigated by the stock rising of new stars (Owens)? How is this sales metric measured? Why are kids so weird?




LilOlMe said:


> Since we're on the topic of personalities outside of wrestling (and this clip kind of supports it), I watched a documentary on Finn/Devitt that's on DailyMotion. I was like "wow, Devitt's kind of boring" which is funny, and a bit of a dichotomy, given how much thoughts he put into the Bullet Club and his stage presentation and things like that.
> 
> I didn't think that in a negative way, btw, just more amused. Like, wow, he's really unassuming & seems a bit "plain" as a person. Opposite from what you would think a person behind this type of creativity would be like


I know someone (Cactus; who used to post here) that helped at one of the promotions Devitt frequented in England, and he was completely taken aback by how Devitt was in real life. They all went for supper after the one show, and Devitt appeared reserved and to himself, for most of it. Not as if he was unfriendly towards others, or was purposefully ignoring Cactus, just more shy than you'd imagine him to be.

Like you said, it's so weird to know that despite the elaborate get-ups and stage presence he shows on TV.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah what if I informed you that Colt Cabana is basically exactly how he appears to be on TV & how does that make you feel?


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Rah said:


> According to Meltzer, every time Cena loses his merchandise sales take a hit. That's why he always gets the second victory. We know he outsells everyone by a wide margin, but is that dip not mitigated by the stock rising of new stars (Owens)? How is this sales metric measured? Why are kids so weird?


I guess because kids really buy into the superhero thing, but you'd think that they'd sympathize with a loss, and want to support him even more.

Or maybe kids are just frontrunners. :lol

I agree with you that Vince should be focusing on long-term gains over temporary sacrifices.




Rah said:


> I know someone (Cactus; who used to post here) that helped at one of the promotions Devitt frequented in England, and he was completely taken aback by how Devitt was in real life. They all went for supper after the one show, and Devitt appeared reserved and to himself, for most of it. Not as if he was unfriendly towards others, or was purposefully ignoring Cactus, just more shy than you'd imagine him to be.
> 
> Like you said, it's so weird to know that despite the elaborate get-ups and stage presence he shows on TV.


That's interesting, and reserved is exactly how he comes across. Yeah, I got that vibe in the documentary, even when he was amongst close friends. There was a part toward the beginning where a guy was making small talk backstage, and that guy seemed a natural conversationalist, and Devitt seemed very....not.

Also, when Becky & Devitt were talking on the apron in that NXT clip, I noticed that he wasn't making eye contact with her.

I think that he is shy, and I also get the sense that he feels that he has to tightly control his emotions for whatever reason.

Not cold, though, you're right. One of the guys in the documentary mentioned that when Devitt first started making even a little bit of money, the first thing he did when he came back was buy his broke wrestling friend something.

As for the last part of your post, I guess performing is his outlet, similar to entertainers in other fields. That's probably why the onscreen presentation is so different. Only way to not be so reserved.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Liger/Benoit talk reminds me that i dug this comp out recently as i think
ive only seen one Benoit/Liger match, so i think i may finally start this the weekend.



Spoiler: Liger vs Benoit



BEST OF JUSHIN 'THUNDER' LIGER VS PEGASUS KID

Disc 1 
Pegasus Kid & Naoki Sano vs. Jushin Liger & Akira Nogami (2/10/90) 
Pegasus Kid & Cheetah Kid vs. Jushin Liger & Takayuki Izuka (3/2/90) 
Pegasus Kid vs. Jushin Liger (3/19/90) 
Pegasus Kid, Strong Machine & Goto vs. Jushin Liger, Kuniaki Kobayashi & Kensuke Sasaki (8/16/90) 
Pegasus Kid vs. Jushin Liger (8/19/90) 
Jushin Liger & Takayuki Iizuka vs. Hiro Saito & Chris Benoit (10/29/90) 
Pegasus Kid vs. Jushin Liger (11/1/90) 

Disc 2 
Benoit & Machine vs. Liger & Muto (New Japan 5/27/91) 
Benoit & Miguel Perez Jr. vs. Liger & Koshinaka (5/30/91) 
Benoit, Honaga & Gotoh vs. Kobayashi, Koshinaka & Liger 6/26/91 
Pegasus kid vs. Jushin Liger (Mask vs. Mask 7/4/91) 
Chris Benoit vs. Jushin Liger (10/18/91) 
Chris Benoit vs. Jushin Liger (2/10/92) 
Jushin Liger & Akira Nogami vs. Flying Scorpio & Chris Benoit (2/4/92) 

Disc 3 
Chris Benoit v. Jushin Liger (EXTREMELY Rare handheld footage from the Top of the Super Jr. Tournament 4/23/92)
Jushin Liger & Chris Benoit vs. ***** Casas & El Samurai (5/1/92) 
Jushin Liger & Tiger Mask vs. El Samurai & Chris Benoit (6/2/92) 
Chris Benoit & Beef Wellington vs. Jushin Liger & Brian Pillman (Clash of Champions 19, 6/16/92) 
Jushin Liger & Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Pegasus Kid & Jim Neidhart (8/6/92) 
Jushin Liger vs. Chris Benoit (8/12/92) 
Benoit & Liger vs. H. Saito & Honaga (10/18/92) 

Disc 4 
Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko vs. Jushin Liger & Takayuki Iizuka (11/23/92)
Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko vs. Jushin Liger & El Samurai (3/9/93)
Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko vs. Jushin Liger & El Samurai (3/23/93)
Chris Benoit & Jushin Liger vs. Masahiro Chono & Shinya Hashimoto (New Japan Super Grade Tag Tournament 10/15/1993) 
Chris Benoit & Jushin Liger vs. Scott Norton & Hercules Hernandez (Super Grade Tag Tournament 10/19/1993) 
Chris Benoit & Jushin Liger vs. Keiji Muto & Hiroshi Hase (Super Grade Tag Tournament 11/1/1993) 
Jushin Liger & Chris Benoit vs. Akira Nogami & Takayuki Iizuka (Super Grade Tag Tournament 11/4/1993) 

Disc 5 
Chris Benoit & Jushin Liger vs. Rick & Scott Steiner (4/4/94) 
Chris Benoit & Keiji Muto vs. Jushin Liger & Riki Choshu (9/24/94) 
Chris Benoit vs. Jushin Liger (WCW Starrcade 12/27/95) 
Chris Benoit & Ishizawa vs. Jushin Liger & El Samurai (3/9/96) 
Jushin Liger & Shinya Hashimoto vs. Chris Benoit & Scott Norton (3/13/96) 
Jushin Liger, Gan Hamada, Pegasus Kid & El Samurai vs. Taka Michinoku, Shinjiro Otani, Koji Kanemoto & Tokimitsu Ishizawa (3/14/96) 
Jushin Liger & Chris Benoit vs. Koji Kanemoto & Shinjiro Ohtani (3/26/96) 

Disc 6 
Chris Benoit vs. Jushin Liger (9/23/96) 
Chris Benoit & Jushin Liger & El Samurai vs. Shinjiro Otani & Tatsuhito Takaiwa & Koji Kanemoto (3/5/97) 
Chris Benoit & Jushin Liger vs. Ohtani & Takaiwa (3/8/97)
Jushin Liger, El Samurai, Chris Benoit & Kendo Ka Shin vs. Shinjiro Ohtani, Koji Kanemoto, Chris Jericho & Tatsuhito Takaiwa (9/22/97)
Chris Benoit vs Jushin Liger (10/17/99)
Chris Benoit vs. Jushin Liger (Thunder 12/22/99)
BONUS: Jushin Liger vs. Chris Benoit (AWF 03/04/93) (Handheld)


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Owens' match on Smackdown was real fun. :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brock Lesnar returns on Raw.

Kevin Owens Vs Samoa Joe happens on NXT.

And now Kevin Owens Vs Cesaro on SD?

Best and most interesting week of WWE this year probably .


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

cant wait to see owens/cesaro :mark:

been watching the monday night wars series on the network really enjoying it


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well, Owens/Cesaro was a disappointment. Wasn't bad, but the crowd was dead and the finish was flat.


----------



## tboneangle (Jan 14, 2009)

Did meltzer give out stars for MITB yet?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

tboneangle said:


> Did meltzer give out stars for MITB yet?


Yes:

R-Truth vs King Barret- *3/4
MITB Match- ***1/2
Nikki Bella vs Paige- *3/4
Ryback vs Big Show- 3/4*
JohN Cena vs Kevin Owens- ****1/2
New Day vs PTP- *1/2
Seth Rollins vs Dean Ambrose- ****


----------



## tboneangle (Jan 14, 2009)

Srdjan99 said:


> Yes:
> 
> R-Truth vs King Barret- *3/4
> MITB Match- ***1/2
> ...



Interesting that he gave cena vs Owens the same rating as last month. He said that it was better so surely I was expecting ****3/4

I'm still torn in the 2 Cena Owens matches. They are both ****3/4 MINNIMUM to me. What's everyone's match ratings on both cena Owens matches? 

And while we are at it what's everyone's ratings for the Lesnar Angle Trilogy? Specifically Summerslam 03


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd go **** on the first Cena/Owens match and ***1/2 for the second one.

Angle/Lesnar:

WM - ****
SS - ****1/2
Iron Man - ****3/4


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I think the second match is vastly superior to the first Cena/Owens match. First one was great, but the second one was a MOTYC for me.

In any event, Meltzer vastly overrated the MITB ladder match. That was garbage. But the rest I actually for the most part agree with him.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

tboneangle said:


> Interesting that he gave cena vs Owens the same rating as last month. He said that it was better so surely I was expecting ****3/4
> 
> I'm still torn in the 2 Cena Owens matches. They are both ****3/4 MINNIMUM to me. What's everyone's match ratings on both cena Owens matches?
> 
> And while we are at it what's everyone's ratings for the Lesnar Angle Trilogy? Specifically Summerslam 03


****1/4 for the first one, and ****1/2 for the second one.

Owens/Cesaro was a disapointment for me at least. A **3/4 for me, they didn't receive a lot of time, but I was expecting more from the two of them


----------



## tboneangle (Jan 14, 2009)

Great stuff guys. Awesome how so many people's opinions vary. I would go 1 star higher on the main event than meltzer did. 

Anymore thoughts on angle lesnar series?

I have mania and iron man at ***** but conflicted on Summerslam. However some people say Summerslam was the best one.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I still find the Angle/Lesnar WM match quite underrated tbh. Everyone remembers it and associates it with the botched SSP, but the actual body of the match was really good IMO, esp when you consider the state of Angle at the time.

I agree (what the fuck am I doing) with Cal on the match ratings.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

I'm with @Brock on the WM19 match. Thought everyone involved did a such a great job covering for the botch, especially Angle given the state of him, that it seems kind of churlish to say that the match was in any way ruined because of it. Also love the Ironman... Oddly, never thought much about what ratings I'd give either, but I suppose the Mania match is **** and the Ironman is ****1/2 by my reckoning.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Plus, the SSP was meant to be the finish, so you can't really say it took anything out of the match, to me it just ended up adding a whole new element to it tbh.

The way they improvised the finish and Lesnar was still able to hit that F5 and be in a condition to call it in the first place.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

For me-

WM 19 ****
SS 03' ****1/2
Ironman ****1/2

My personal favorite is probably the Summerslam match. The Ironman match is so good, if they cut out about 15 min and made it a 45 min match it would be a ***** match for me and one of the greatest matches ever. As it is, it's still easily the best 60 min Ironman match I've ever seen, and one of the top 5 or so 60 min matches ever. Those guys had such wonderful chemistry in the ring, it's a shame we didn't get 1-2 more matches out of them. Them just having 3 matches does make each encounter they had feel pretty special.

Don't sleep on the Angle/Lesnar/Show triple threat from Vengeance 03' either. I'm not a big fan of triple threat and 4-way matches as a rule, but that match seriously kicks ass. 
@WrestlingOracle I was actually thinking of saying Stan Hansen myself. Listening to his podcast with JR, it was amazing to me that he said "I'm just happy some people still seem to remember me.." I was like are you fucking kidding me?!?! YOU ARE STAN FREAKING HANSEN! You're a wrestling God, there aren't 10 people in the history of the world who were better wrestlers than you. I hope he realizes that. I feel the same way about Vader, listening to how humble and gracious he is in all his interviews nowadays, how he says he was just lucky that he had an opponent as good as Sting and blah blah blah, I just hope deep down they do realize how great they were and how much enjoyment people like me still get out of their work. Not 1 single week will go by where I don't watch at least one Vader, Hansen, and Eddie match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brock vs Angle from WM is mediocre & tedious. The botch isn't close to a negative, it's about the only positive I can take away b/c it created something memorable in a sea of forgettable tosh.

---------

RAW was p. good. I missed Cena's presence, but they managed to keep the show in check in most areas. Including a lot of Owens & a moment I didn't expect to see. Dude killed a celeb guest. He's more official than ever, now. Good match w/Dolph proves working w/Owens rn helps everyone, a nice opener w/Sheamus vs Ambrose & a fun six man tag assisted in making this more than effective. Rollins was great in the opening segment. Awesome crowd to give him all kinds of heat. I did skip Orton vs Kane & the moment I heard Truth's music _(but saw he got knocked out by Barrett so yay) _I don't deny doing so helped w/the experience. BROCK music proceeded w/goosebumps.

Need to see a few SD matches I've skipped over the past few weeks. Reigns vs Sheamus happened and I have to see how it went. Excited. I can live w/a BS TV finish if the match is what I expect it to be.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

I really enjoyed Cesaro/Owens - the only real flaw for me was that it was like 8 minutes, with some shitty tag match as the main

Which, in a way, isn't really a flaw at all. For sub-8, it was damn exciting -"Chinlock City!" I thought Cesaro looked great in the loss (thought he was gonna die for a sec on that dive) and did the job of leaving me wanting more, which I think should be the goal in matches of that length. Fingers-crossed it leads to a longer rematch on Raw this week. ***1/4 from me.


Edit: I did think they commentary could have put over the idea that Cesaro's recent tag run may have put him at a disadvantage - not physically (obv), but mentally not getting those little breaks hurt him in such a big challenge as taking on Owens. I think it would've better "protected" him in such a short, clean loss, but that's kind of a minor quibble.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> For me-
> 
> WM 19 ****
> SS 03' ****1/2
> ...


YES! Love that match :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Reigns vs Sheamus was a really sweet, short affair. Reigns selling was good. Honestly didn't expect the contiunity from RAW to extend over so that earned bonus points. For a sub-7 minute SD match w/a bleh finish, they sure didn't hold anything back. In a nutshell why I love both.

Might get on Steen vs Cesaro soon. I say that now, but I could be distracted and now do it. Def still interested. Don't mind it was short. That's SD for ya. Not a problem if it is a sprint.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

did you watch it yet cody?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> Reigns vs Sheamus was a really sweet, short affair. Reigns selling was good. Honestly didn't expect the contiunity from RAW to extend over so that earned bonus points. For a sub-7 minute SD match w/a bleh finish, they sure didn't hold anything back. In a nutshell why I love both.
> 
> Might get on Steen vs Cesaro soon. I say that now, but I could be distracted and now do it. Def still interested. Don't mind it was short. That's SD for ya. Not a problem if it is a sprint.


I watched Cesaro/Steen. It was good, but kind of underwhelming. I don't know, I guess I expected more.

Did Sheamus vs. Reigns happen on SD too? I only watched the Rollins promo, which was really good, and Owens/Cesaro.

---

I re-watched some stuff from this year to see what holds up. After it happened live, I had Owens/Cena II as the MOTY (****3/4), but after re-watching the two contenders, Lesnar/Rollins/Cena still holds up as the best match of the year (****1/2). Owens/Cena II got bumped down to ****1/4 on the second viewing. Also re-watched Reigns/Lesnar, which I bumped up to ****. It seems like that one gets better the more I watch it for some reason.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not yet, Kenny.

Sheamus vs Reigns was the main on SD two weeks ago. The same show w/the first Steen NXT Championship Open Challenge when he beat Ryder.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Midnight Express vs. Southern Boys (WCW Main Event 11.04.1990)*



@Obfuscation


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

im in a wcw esque mood again and fairly smashed

can someone name drop a ppv from 1997 pls


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bash At The Beach.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

doing that now 

wrath and mortis vs glacier and the cat :mark:


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Did I ever drop this house show match here, before? No? Cool


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I remember that being another really good match between the two when i watched it on the first half of my Regal comp. (Y)


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

@Brock

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to ask here, but where the heck do you get your amazing comps?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> @Brock
> 
> I'm not sure if I'm allowed to ask here, but where the heck do you get your amazing comps?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Just let me know if you ever find out a good (and kinda cheap) source for pre-90s Euro stuff. I see matches get exclamation points online then when I look I can't find anywhere to even buy them let alone watch them.


I don't remember that Regal/Steamboat at all. I didn't go wild for their matches like everyone else did other than 9/25/93 so maybe this is the one.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Anything you're looking for in particular? OJ could hit you up with a referal, if we come stuck.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Not match-specific, but there's a bunch of stuff OJ's talked about that I can't find any other evidence even exists. :lmao There's be the Euro 80s comp one day, at least.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Watched:


> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Minoru Suzuki 10/8/12 [***** Meltzer rating]


Tanahashi/Suzuki might be the best match I've seen in my life. That must have been the most "paying attention to little details" match I've ever seen. Can't think of one thing that they did wrong.

Has there ever been a more thrilling figure four segment?

The figure four is a move where I don't think that anyone ever realistically expects someone to tap out to (actually was shocked when Vince did, lol), yet they were able to produce such drama and had me riveted the whole time, despite that.

I wish to God I wrote this right after I watched it, because I don't remember all of my comments (do any of you actually take notes? lol. I feel like it would be helpful in a time like this). 

It wouldn't necessarily be one of my favorites of all-time, in terms of something I'd re-watch over and over, however, it's one of the matches I'm most in reverence of.

I guess if there was any negative, it'd be that the ending felt a bit anti-climatic. I expected there to be more back and forth with the ending, considering the way the match went, but it's not necessarily a bad thing at all. I kind of like the finality and certainty of it. Just felt that it didn't quite fit the vibe of much of the rest of the match. 

Also watched:


> Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Kazuchika Okada 4/7/13 [***** Meltzer rating]


Tanahashi is freakin' phenomenal at selling the brutality of submission holds. He makes most submission holds so engrossing, because his face really looks in such agony. He's sick.

I first saw him doing the air guitar thing before a match with Devitt and hated him, so I'm glad I gave him a second chance. He's an incredible wrestler who you can tell takes pride in that extra little thought when it comes to wrestling.

The way the crowds respond to him when he first comes out is Zayn-like, IMO.

Okada I've seen before, & loved his antagonistic smiling at Devitt when Devitt was doing his bullet thing in their match together (get on this now, everyone!!! Devitt's character work was great...really seemed a bit mentally unstable & "off" without overdoing it). 

Still like him now. He has "star quality" written all over him. Vince would absolutely cream over him if he were American, and I'm guessing H is trying to recruit him right now. He's like everything you could want for in a sports entertainment package.

His character takes from a few different cultures, which was obvious to me from the beginning, & that blended approach is very smart and unique.

The money falling reminds me of rappers (and Batman, lol) as does the chains, but the Emperor style clothing, plus the arrogant look on his face and the way he carries himself reminds me of something very regal. Throw in the bodyguards & his appeal to the young fanbase, and he reminds me of a young pop star.

Somehow none of this clashes, and it all comes together so clearly as just "Okada." I like that, and I like when I feel that no one else can intrinsically duplicate something so well.

I am pleased to note that after quickly Googling, it doesn't seem like he straight up lifted his character from anywhere. I thought that maybe it was based on a specific movie character or something, so I'm glad to know that he has his own stamp on it. 

I love his submission hold, and like I said, Tanahashi sold it great. It was an enjoyable match, though from what I remember, it did seem like Okada stopped selling the arm at times. Not the hugest deal, but that extra commitment would have been perfect, since it was a pretty big story happening throughout the match. I did LOVE how he had to immediately stop doing his pose, because his arm was in too much pain. Love little details like that.

The crowd was the hottest one I've seen from Japan in my recent viewing, I think. Tells you how well those two have really captured the spirits of the audience. 


Also watched this, thanks to the great Brock:


> Naomichi Marufuji vs. Nigel McGuinness at Glory By Honor V Night 2 [**** Meltzer rating]


Nigel's music is fantastic. Never heard it before, because almost everything I've watched of him has been on DVDs where the music is edited out. But damn, I loved that shit immediately. Cool as hell, and I could really see a wrestler bopping along to it and a whole stadium marking with it the way that crowd did.

Made me laugh that Marufuji seemed surprised by the quiet crowd, lol. Japan is known for being quieter than us, so that must have been strange. Also, him playing to that one guy who was booing him was great.

Selling issues and all of that (and that "fighting spirit" quick bounce back even annoyed me, lol) and it was slow to pick up, but the last few minutes were great. That kicking section was phenomenal. Fuji makes those loud kicks sound and look as deadly as Del Rio does, and I love that.

Still lovin' Nigel's lariats, and Fuji always looks like he's killed by rough clotheslines, so that was a good combination.

Lastly, randomly watched:


> Jushin Liger & Koji Kanemoto vs. Ultimate Dragon & Masao Orihara - 12/11/92 [**** Meltzer rating]


Don't remember specific comments, other than Liger was fast as hell & clean, and I can certainly see the appeal more now. 

I think that what I saw of the Owen Hart match colored me, because it felt very typical, but I didn't get that feeling watching this tag. Liger definitely stood out, and I am looking forward to viewing more of his work.


Was the Smackdown main event tag any good? They all blend together, & am thinking of deleting it off my DVR later tonight without watching.

Cesaro's promo before the Owens match was pretty good.


ETA: Who was the person who put his head right into Devitt's "gun" before or during a match? Remember seeing that, but can't for the life of me remember now. Think it was Okada. That was fucking terrific. Actually, almost positive it was Okada, because I think I remember the person laughing and blatantly egging Devitt on. If so, it totally fits both of their characters, which made it even more awesome.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

A friendly reminder that this happens on July 4th on the Network. I have no idea what time it will air, but it still looks awesome.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Still can't quite get over it's Brock/Kofi TBH. Unless Brock goes all 'ham' on him and busts out every suplex variation under the sun and it's a quick job, or he destroys him and the new day too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not interested in any of that except seeing Lesnar MAUL, absolutely fucking MAUL Kofi and the rest of New Day. If Kofi so much as gets a single shot in then it's officially the worst decision by WWE ever.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'd be all for a 3-on-1 handicap match where New Day _maybe_ gets some offense in before getting destroyed. I think they were scheduled to face Cesaro & Kidd anyway, so why not throw them in with Kidd's injury?

Just found out that Joey Styles confirmed that the ENTIRE show will be aired live and it's at 6:30 AM Eastern time here in the U.S. Looks like I'll be watching it later then. 

Show still has Cena & Ziggler vs. Kane & Barrett, Nikki Bella vs. Paige for the Divas Title again, and Lucha Dragons vs. Los Matadores as well.

ORRRR, they could do the awesome thing and bring in Swagger for a night to team with Cesaro to face New Day. I'm likely still dreaming though. :lol


----------



## Louaja89 (Feb 4, 2014)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I'd be all for a 3-on-1 handicap match where New Day _maybe_ gets some offense in before getting destroyed. I think they were scheduled to face Cesaro & Kidd anyway, so why not throw them in with Kidd's injury?
> 
> Just found out that Joey Styles confirmed that the ENTIRE show will be aired live and it's at 6:30 AM Eastern time here in the U.S. Looks like I'll be watching it later then.
> 
> ...


No Shield guys ?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Louaja89 said:


> No Shield guys ?


Nah, the other set of talent is doing a show the same day in Winnipeg, Canada. Reigns, Rollins, Ambrose, Wyatt, Ryback, Big Show, Miz.

These days they do the Cena tours and the Reigns tours. Cover more ground I guess.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Show still has Cena & Ziggler vs. Kane & Barrett, Nikki Bella vs. Paige for the Divas Title again, and Lucha Dragons vs. Los Matadores as well.


Wow, the full card is even less appealing than just those other 3 matches on their own :lmao.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Has the WWE even done any advertising during RAW or SD for the July 4th show? It seems as if NXT is the only place they're hyping it up. I think it's a great marketing opportunity for them to boost the Network sales. Then again, they might just give the month free to new subscribers.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I want Kofi to beat Brock :side:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I want Kofi to beat Brock :side:


Mmm, time to (ab)use my Mod powers and issue an infraction me thinks. :side:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

If Kofi beats Brock, he can take his place against Rollins for the title. Kofi could then win the title. Then this thread would explode.

Color me intrigued. :lelbrock


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Perhaps Kofi can win via DQ after Brock refuses to break a hold after a five count and then proceeds to kill him. There. I amend my statement.

Now onto some cooler stuff. Today I was watching this show on TV when suddenly an old friend of ours appears out of the bloom.






The show's name is Beyond Belief, and if you watched the first ten minutes of the video, you can see that our hero Terry Funk acts as one of the characters in the first story of the show. The story is about a wrestler (Funk) who is set to have his retirement match lmao) and is booked to lose to a rival of his that he has always lost to. Terry takes issue of this and when the match occurs, both guys work super stiff with each other. At some point though, Terry accidentally kills the guy he was working with without realizing it, and for the next 20 minutes, he proceeds to carry a dead person to a wrestling classic. Pretty interesting stuff, and the match that they acted out in that episode was actually pretty good :lol. Even includes Terry doing a spinning toe hold. Cool stuff, and Mr. Funk truly has some acting chops.

EDIT: Oh my god, Brock's tan looks awful.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Owens/Cena III at Battleground. Expected, but still dissapointed. If WWE didn't feel the need for all this damn content, could've done a lesser gimmick for July and had all this time to build a real nice Owens/Cena III and a Rollins/Lesnar one on one with roots all the way back to January at Summerslam. Rush Rush Rush and you can slowly see it poisoning the weekly product until the talent influx to the main roster is complete.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Man, I'm loving this Sheamus/Reigns match.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Sheamus/Reigns was actually a decent match, I'm a bit surprised. First half (until the commercial... ugh) was really good. Then well... the finish kind of ruined it. Still a decent match and worth a watch. Should've just had Reigns feud with Sheamus and not drag Wyatt down with this crap.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I thought Roman's daughter would be in the chair across from Wyatt.

This Wyatt/Reigns feud is just... I love it. Wyatt HAS to go over at Battleground and continue the war into Summerslam.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

@Obfuscation , Sheamus vs. Reigns on RAW tonight. (Y)


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Can Wyatt start cutting promos from Roman's house, pls?

I'm really starting to look forward to the wars Wyatt/Reigns can have. It won't be a straight-up wrestling match anymore, it'll be a war. A walking brawl would probably benefit these guys way more, too. 

If Rowan is hurt, have Harper come out alone during the match at Battleground with Roman Reigns' daughter leading to Wyatt winning. The feud continues, and Wyatt picks up the win at Summerslam as well. Reigns eventually gets the win over Wyatt, but in a cage match (or even HIAC) to keep Harper out, and to ensure he doesn't actually pin Wyatt (cage match would be better for this). Wyatt comes out creepier, and having "won" the psychological battle over Reigns as his demeanor completely changes, and eventually transitions into a title program with the newly formed Wyatt Family backing him.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Did I just see right? The Tokyo show is at 5:30 in the morning :surprise:

Who's gonna get up that early to watch a WWE show in 2015 :lol


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Dude, let's be real. You know Reigns is going over at Battleground and that will be the end of this feud. :lol


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

sharkboy22 said:


> Did I just see right? The Tokyo show is at 5:30 in the morning :surprise:
> 
> Who's gonna get up that early to watch a WWE show in 2015 :lol


I'm gonna record it.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Dude, let's be real. You know Reigns is going over at Battleground and that will be the end of this feud. :lol


Let me live in my dream world pls


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

RatedR10 said:


> I'm gonna record it.
> 
> 
> 
> Let me live in my dream world pls


For what it is worth in my parts: there are advertisements for the upcoming Summerslam tour featuring Randy Orton vs Bray Wyatt. This could just be a house show heel/face matchup for the hell of it, but it could be a feeler for how those two would work together for Summerslam as well.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

They finally did something worthwhile on Superstars!



Spoiler: Superstars main event



Cesaro vs. Luke Harper



Have to check that one out.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> @Obfuscation , Sheamus vs. Reigns on RAW tonight. (Y)


Terrific news.

Also: OMG at the Superstars match. Reminds me of something cool that happened around December of last year: 



Spoiler: .



Cesaro vs Rowan


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Pretty good match between Ryback and Henry from what we saw. Too bad half of the match was eaten up by commercial time.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

That ending...

Kane's chokeslam kept Lesnar down after he's popped up out of two AAs and didn't go down on three superman punches :ha


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I hate how they've just thrown away how great Brock's suspension segment was. I despised the opening segment of RAW, and it was a giant waste of time and potential. 

Also felt very awkward, IMO. Like they were waiting for a huge crowd reaction, and it never came. The acting on the part of the announcers was atrocious. 

So many storylines could have come from Brock demanding and brutalizing his way back into the WWE, & the negotiations and head games on the air with the Authority to force that to happen.

I know with his limited appearances maybe they felt they had to get straight to the point, but the last two weeks with Brock have been so lame (maybe it gets better as this RAW goes on, though...only watched the opening segment).

The viewership for Brock & his destruction was sky high. THAT'S where the interest is. That segment got one of the best responses in years. Why drop a storyline that was so damn hot? 

This was a terrible way to just close that whole chapter.

The WWE is so frustrating sometimes.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Rock & Roll Express vs. Ric Flair & Arn Anderson (WCW Main Event 02.18.1990)*

x2v36p2

Another forgotten WCW gem, and a fucking REALLY good match. Recommended.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

You know what's crazy? We're 4 weeks away from Battleground and they've basically already made the entire card. I have a feeling we're gonna be seeing a lottttttt of repetitiveness in the next month. Neville vs. Kofi anyone?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So what is the battle ground card? I genuinely only know Lesnar Vs Rollins :lmao.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Big Cal's World said:


> So what is the battle ground card? I genuinely only know Lesnar Vs Rollins :lmao.


:lol

Lesnar vs. Rollins
Cena vs. Owens for the U.S. Title
Ryback vs. Big Show vs. Miz for the I.C. Title
Reigns vs. Wyatt
PTP vs. New Day for the Tag Titles

And again, those matches have all been officially made and the show is 4 weeks away. Very surprising considering this is WWE we're talking about.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm thinking that exceptional Brodie Lee vs Claudio Castagnoli cage match needs a rewatch, it's been a minute.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I'm thinking that exceptional Brodie Lee vs Claudio Castagnoli cage match needs a rewatch, it's been a minute.


was just thinking that as i entered the thread and saw the news re: superstars :mark:

i'm about to start a SHIELD marathon though. 

i'm going to start with these, as i don't remember much or watching them

WWE Raw: The Shield vs. Team Hell No and John Cena(April 29th 2013)

WWE Raw: The Shield vs. Ryback, Sheamus and Chris Jericho (Feb 18th 2013)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Make sure to watch the Shield/Wyatt matches from Raw and Superstars. The one they had at EC 14 is the real prize, but those other 2 are fabulous as well and don't get the rep they deserve. Then while your at it watch the No DQ Shield/Rhodes Bros match from Raw. Battleground again is the prize but that match was excellent. Shield was the best thing WWE has done in AGES. I'll Mark out big time in about 5 or so years if they do a reunion. Let's hope WWE holds off for at least that long before going to that well.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Make sure to watch the Shield/Wyatt matches from Raw and Superstars. The one they had at EC 14 is the real prize, but those other 2 are fabulous as well and don't get the rep they deserve. Then while your at it watch the No DQ Shield/Rhodes Bros match from Raw. Battleground again is the prize but that match was excellent. Shield was the best thing WWE has done in AGES. I'll Mark out big time in about 5 or so years if they do a reunion. Let's hope WWE holds off for at least that long before going to that well.


All those next after the two I listed before. :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Shield vs The Wyatt Family (WWE Elimination Chamber 2014)
The Shield vs The Wyatt Family (WWE Main Event 04.08.2014)
The Shield vs The Wyatt Family (WWE Raw 03.03.2014)
The Shield vs The Wyatt Family (WWE Raw 05.05.2014)

Dates for the Shield/Wyatt matches. What a set. :mark: 

ARGGH I hate this new damn spacing.


----------



## DemonKane_Legend (Jan 24, 2015)

I was the best Raw if the year, Kane is on winning streak he has 5 wins in a row, and last night Kane beat dean ambrose and destroyed brock lesnar. Awesome Raw, awesome Kane.

Kane took reveng on lesnar for beating the undertaker streak.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

Obfuscation said:


> Terrific news.
> 
> Also: OMG at the Superstars match. Reminds me of something cool that happened around December of last year:
> 
> ...


Rowan and cool on the same sentence... :lelbrock


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Can I ask a question here and get some people's thoughts about it if you have time?

I was listening to JR's podcast with Bryan Alvarez where they talk about Dusty Rhodes. At one point, matter of factly, Avarez says "Well, Ric Flair worked the same match every single night" and JR didn't cut him off or really disagree with him.

Now, this isn't the first time I've heard this claim, I've heard several wrestlers and other people in the industry claim that all Flair matches are essentially the same. This just completely baffles me, I don't understand it and don't see why numerous other people seem to think this.

What about you guys? Do you think all Flair matches or at least the vast majority of Flair's matches were essentially the same?

Here is why I dont understand this claim. Flair's best opponents throughout his career, in some order, were Terry Funk, Steamboat, Dusty Rhodes, Lex Luger, Barry Windham, Hulk Hogan, Sting, Vader, Harley Race, Randy Savage, and Triple H. Those were his most notable main event opponents. I think most of us in this thread have seen at least one Flair match with each of those opponents, if not all of the notable matches he had with those guys. Think back to each of those matches he had, how were they in any way the exact same?

The Terry Funk matches at GAB 89' and COTC IX were about as different as humanly possible from his matches with Ricky Steamboat just months earlier at Chi-Town Rumble 89', COTC VI, and WrestleWar 89'. His 2 fabulous matches with Vader in 93' were about as different as humanly possible from his matches with Sting or Lex Luger. His matches with Triple H in 2005 in no way whatsoever resemble his classics with Windham in 86-87'.

I don't get it, I just don't. Sure Flair had some signature spots he used every match, but so does every single wrestler in the 20th century just about. The only thing I will agree with is that, his matches with Sting and Lex Luger were pretty similar, but that's because Sting and Luger were both big, strong, power house, baby faces who were really green at the time they first started wrestling Flair. So Ric of course was forced to work around them and essentially wrestle himself, so of course those matches are gonna have similarities. Flair told the same story in most of the Sting and Luger matches because that's the obvious story and that's what the crowd wanted to see. But when Flair wresrled Steamboat, who was just as big and jacked up, just as much of a baby face, but wrestled a totally different style from Luger and Sting, Flair had totally different matches with Steamboat as a result.

So can someone please explain to me why Flair gets accused of having the same match every night? How is what Flair did any different than what Undertaker did? For that matter Rey Mysterio, he wrestled very similar stories in a lot of his matches because of his size disadvantage yet thankfully no one accuses him of only doing the same match every time. Undertaker had even more of a blatant formula than Flair, BECAUSE IT FREAKING WORKED AND THATS WHAT FANS WANT TO SEE, and thank Christ I don't have to hear people Blaspheme and claim Taker only wrestled the same match.

So what gives? Anyone?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

He obviously has a "formula," but watching different people injected into it is interesting enough. And even the same guy. Like, I don't know how many Flair matches I've seen with Kerry but I don't remember them being the same match. There are two in Mid-South a few weeks from each other. I don't remember them being the same match. And that *same night * of the second match Flair also faced Terry Taylor in a match that wasn't the same as those other two. Then he faced Taylor a month later. Not the same again. 

Even Sting and Luger, which I kneejerk agreed with, I don't feel like that. How are Flair/Lugers almost always CERTAINLY better than Flair/Stings if they're the same match? Same type of match, yeah. Same match, no.

Flair's gone on record saying he purposely repeated spots though. Comes from an experience he had where he saw Ray Stevens wrestle and Stevens didn't do the spots Flair was hoping he'd do. Flair didn't want people going to a show with him on it and saying "he didn't even do the flair flop! I feel jipped."


It should be noted Bryan Alvarez once said something about 2007 WWE almost having the best five in-ring months ever. I respect opinions and whatnot but have no time for his. I find him kind of annoying, too. I don't think he literally meant Flair wrestled the same match every night of his career, though, did he? Like whether you enjoy it or not you'd have to be a complete idiot to look at Flair/Steamboat and go "I saw this when he wrestled Morton in the cage."


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ppl think all his matches consist of : flair bump, blood, chop, woo, failed over the top rope bodyslam

The "flair has the same match" baffles me and I cant help but laugh everytime. Yes I'm a massive flair mark as most know, but objectively speaking I dont see it. yes he has a formula and sig.spots and mannerisms he does most matches but most/every wrestler has a formula. I see it every time I watch a modern day wwe match, same thing over and over. But yea Flair/HBK is much different than Flair/HHH, and those are different than Flair/Savage etc

I think another thing people dont take into account not saying he does have the same matches at all about Naitch is, guy use to wrestle 360 days a year and some of those times multiple times a day, you are going to tell me that said person isnt going to develop a formula or have matches that are the same style and be able to switch it up every single time :drake1

And to be fair, his style/matches worked, and he's greatest of all time, so why would he change it


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fighter Daron said:


> Rowan and cool on the same sentence... :lelbrock


Not as unfathomable as the lack of a punchline here. :CENA


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

What was the context of the remark? Was he actually _knocking_ Flair, or just using it matter-of-factly, like as a hyperbolic way of pointing out that even the widely-accepted GOAT had certain formula bits?


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

The thing with Flair is that his spots and repetitiveness show a sleight of hand, and that may be why some have a problem with it. Or at least I do. Usually when I hear people criticizing the repetitiveness, they're pointing out the unrealistic shit that he does. Things stand out to you more when it's accompanied by something else that you really don't like.

When someone's repetitive or doing their "spots", but it's all a logical construction you would have in a match, it seems less of a standout in a negative way. With Flair's chops, I rarely feel that there's a real purpose other than just doing them to do them and to kill some time (Michaels was a terrible offender with this during his second run). At least in Japan, for instance, it feels very mano a mano, and like the purpose is to show toughness and to challenge. With Flair I can see it on his face that he's got nothing better to do.

When Flair puts his foot on the rope and then yells at the audience to "shut up"....that shouldn't feel like a spot!! Switch it up when you yell. I laughed the first time I saw it, and then grimaced when I saw it every. other. time. That should not feel so predetermined. 

I remember during his first WWE run, he face flopped, like, three times in a match, and I wanted to kill him even then. And this was as a really little child. His wrestling without a purpose just doesn't work for me, because I feel like he's exposing himself with it all of the time. He doesn't know what to do, so he does dumb shit, and he has no real flow either. 

I'm talking about in the instances when he does stuff like that. Other people are quicker thinkers on their feet, so even if they don't have a plan, I feel like it naturally comes off better. 

And then there's the flipping over and running to the other turnbuckle. Why? No one's momentum would naturally do that. If it were a "fighting spirit" moment, it gets ruined when he does that same exact spot in every flippin' match. The first time I saw it was in the Mr. Perfect match as a kid, I think (started watching in '93 & then went backwards), and I distinctly remember saying to my brother some variation of "wtf?!?" :lmao 

So basically, yeah, everyone has their formulas, but when the formula is stupid & ridiculous/unrealistic, it stands out more for some. It's why some people can't stand the Mysterio 619 setup, if we're speaking of Mysterio.

But Mysterio having a formula & consistent strategy of attack makes sense for a guy of Mysterio's size in his matches. Flair's formula doesn't even make sense, so it's even more egregious that he repeats them so much.

But some people just like it, so that's how it goes. There are some who would find other peoples' spots and formulas boring, and feel that it shows a lack of range.

Just goes back to my "people will tolerate x if they like y" statement.

I feel like Flair became more versatile as he got older, btw, or at least he stopped doing the stupid shit as much. Maybe Vince yelled at him?

I doubt Alvarez meant it in a negative way. I think that Alvarez is a big Flair mark, and Meltzer worships the ground he walks on. 


@Brock, thank you so much! Just downloaded it. Wish I could rep you more. 

Did Cesaro/Harper actually air? Was it good?


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Thought about it some more, and I think that why it's especially grating and noticeable with Flair, is that most other peoples' repetitiveness are MOVES that make logical sense in a match. Flair's are often much more personality-based, so it seems crazy and illogical that someone would respond in the exact same way to a situation as a _person_ each time. How many times have we seen him beg off opponents in exactly the same way? No variation at all. I'm realizing that's why it's awful. It shows no range or versatility in that regard. No imagination either.

So perhaps that's why it's a "thing" said about Flair, because he's one of the few where his repetitiveness is shown in areas where repetitiveness isn't usually show. With everyone else, it's in more usual and expected areas.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Do we blame the babyfaces for continually getting fooled by Flair's begging once they're poked in the eye? Not sure how this is unrealistic. I understand a good bit of Flair criticisms but one I don't really is that he wasn't smart enough. Despite the 'he's the best blah blah blah' from even the commentary back when it was happening - he wasn't really supposed to be, was he? I feel like sometimes people are on his case for being a heel who talks big about himself and then can't back it up. That's....heel-ish. The fans didn't like him so he was perfectly fine looking stupid in front of them for a many a minute, boosting the cred of whoever he was facing, and then cheating to keep the belt. Wait am I even on the same topic? :lmao



> When Flair puts his foot on the rope and then yells at the audience to "shut up"....that shouldn't feel like a spot!! Switch it up when you yell. I laughed the first time I saw it, and then grimaced when I saw it every. other. time. That should not feel so predetermined.


Before I jump the gun, is it purely that you'd like him to yell something other than 'shut up'?


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Yes, actually, I think it makes the babyfaces look like doofuses.

And, no, I think it's more of a combination. Always coming after the foot on the rope spot, and almost always being "shut up!" I will say that he does put passion into it, so that does help fight a bit of that "routine" feel. Still, interacting with the audience should be one of the more authentic feeling things as a heel.

Again, IMO, it shows a lack of quick thinking & creativity.

Nowadays with the chants, it's par for the course for audience reaction to feel more routine, but I think this mostly applies to faces.

Heels have much more creativity to use, so it's mind-numbing to see the same, exact, heel reaction & interaction all of the time. 

If this were in a vacuum it'd be one thing, but it's a thing that's combined with everything else I said. If a heel just did this all of the time without all of the other stuff, I'd probably find it somewhat less disappointing.

I do know that going from territory to territory was a different way of life, so that contributed to a lot of Flair's habits. Doesn't mean it's fun to see when you're now seeing it all of the time, though.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> He obviously has a "formula," but watching different people injected into it is interesting enough. And even the same guy. Like, I don't know how many Flair matches I've seen with Kerry but I don't remember them being the same match. There are two in Mid-South a few weeks from each other. I don't remember them being the same match. And that *same night * of the second match Flair also faced Terry Taylor in a match that wasn't the same as those other two. Then he faced Taylor a month later. Not the same again.
> 
> Even Sting and Luger, which I kneejerk agreed with, I don't feel like that. How are Flair/Lugers almost always CERTAINLY better than Flair/Stings if they're the same match? Same type of match, yeah. Same match, no.
> 
> ...





Bruce L said:


> What was the context of the remark? Was he actually _knocking_ Flair, or just using it matter-of-factly, like as a hyperbolic way of pointing out that even the widely-accepted GOAT had certain formula bits?



Context was talking about John Cena and how he gets knocked for having overly formulaic matches, how pretty much every US title invitational is the same match. They were saying it seems like Cena really gets invigorated when he gets a new high caliber opponent like Owens so he can work a totally different match.



LilOlMe said:


> The thing with Flair is that his spots and repetitiveness show a sleight of hand, and that may be why some have a problem with it. Or at least I do. Usually when I hear people criticizing the repetitiveness, they're pointing out the unrealistic shit that he does. Things stand out to you more when it's accompanied by something else that you really don't like.
> 
> When someone's repetitive or doing their "spots", but it's all a logical construction you would have in a match, it seems less of a standout in a negative way. With Flair's chops, I rarely feel that there's a real purpose other than just doing them to do them and to kill some time (Michaels was a terrible offender with this during his second run). At least in Japan, for instance, it feels very mano a mano, and like the purpose is to show toughness and to challenge. With Flair I can see it on his face that he's got nothing better to do.
> 
> ...


I guess I understand what you are saying, but I just don't see it the same way that you do. The turnbuckle spot for instance, Flairs actually made sense to me because it seemed like he was doing the flip to avoid having to slam back first into his surgically repaired spine into the turnbuckle, so he would flip over and go running down the apron to try and catch his opponent off guard. It wasn't like HBK or HHH' turnbuckle spot where it served no purpose whatsoever and just looked like a guy flipping around for the fuck of it.

The chops for me were Flair attempting to play by the rules to start the match. No closed fisted punches? Okay, how about I chop your ass to show my superiority and work you into a corner so I can slip some real punches or eye rakes in.

Flairs mannerisms as a heel were always used as a way of putting over his baby face opponent. The begging off, the face plant bumping, etc was all done to make his opponent look like solid gold, so it makes sense why he would do it to me.



Yeah1993 said:


> Do we blame the babyfaces for continually getting fooled by Flair's begging once they're poked in the eye? Not sure how this is unrealistic. I understand a good bit of Flair criticisms but one I don't really is that he wasn't smart enough. Despite the 'he's the best blah blah blah' from even the commentary back when it was happening - he wasn't really supposed to be, was he? I feel like sometimes people are on his case for being a heel who talks big about himself and then can't back it up. That's....heel-ish. The fans didn't like him so he was perfectly fine looking stupid in front of them for a many a minute, boosting the cred of whoever he was facing, and then cheating to keep the belt. Wait am I even on the same topic? :lmao
> 
> 
> 
> Before I jump the gun, is it purely that you'd like him to yell something other than 'shut up'?


LilOlMe: Actually, he did yell something other than shut up, he'd yell either "Shut up fat boy!" Or "NOW we go to school!". What else is he supposed to say? "I'LL EAT YOUR LIVER WITH A NICE CHIANTI AND A SIDE OF FAVA BEANS!"? He's a heel, he was just mouthing off to incite the crowd, and it worked every time. 

As for its repetitiveness and how it makes his opponent look foolish, I just see it as pro wrestling stuff you've gotta over look, man. I mean, why on God's green Earth would ANYONE ever let Undertaker grab them by the arm and walk up the ropes to do the "Old School"? Why would any referee EVER believe what Eddie Guerrero was saying in the ring when he was doing his "Lie Cheat Steal" gimmick? Why did all of Finlay's baby face opponents fall for the trick where he claims to have something in his eye so he can use the ref as a shield to blindside them? Or Eddie doing the same thing with the hair pulling? 

I don't want you thinking I'm saying you are wrong or whatever, I really appreciate your insights along with everyone else's. But, I do think this might be a case of you over thinking Flairs stuff because you just don't like it, which is fine because we all have opinions. Everyone has stuff just like what Flair did in their routines, maybe you just happen to like some other people's stuff and not enjoy Flair's? Maybe because Flairs stuff is so iconic, and the fact that during his most visible period world wide, when he was in the WWE from 2002-2008, he really made a point to do most of that stuff every night because let's be real, if I went to see a Flair match in 2005 and he didn't do the face plant bump, the turnbuckle bump, and the begging off, I'd feel ripped off. Same as I'd feel if I paid to see Taker and he didn't do Old School or Eddie from 2003-2005 and he didn't find some inventive way to cheat during the match.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

im in a pretty joyous mood

someone name drop a PPV and i'll go watch it :hb


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Wrestlemania 5.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The argument for Flair's formula was never said better than by Loss over on PWO:



Spoiler: .






> There is definitely a Flair formula, and to me, it's what makes him great. Your opponent gets the best of you early on (pretty much everyone), most of the time with a side headlock (Taylor, Reed, Sting, Steamboat). A change in momentum causes his opponent to miss a move or make a key mistake (Koloff, Sting, Luger, Steamboat), often times affecting the leg or knee, which creates an opening for Flair to begin working on the guy's leg to set up the figure four.
> 
> While in the figure four, he will typically hold the ropes when the referee isn't looking and get a few nearfalls off of it until the babyface finds the resolve to turn the move over, which the announcer will inevitably point out is the only known counter (Windham, Steamboat, Sting, Luger). In the middle of their comeback, the babyface will catch a thumb to the eye from Flair. Flair will then climb to the top rope, only to get slammed to the mat (Nikita, Luger, Sting, Kerry).
> 
> ...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Can't see his '85 schedule as the link isn't copied properly.  But i bet it was insane.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea that's my point, his schedule was so grueling how can one critique him for having similar aspects in matches ? 

The Flair/Stevens story is truly interesting, and makes his philosophy make even more sense. People need to realize how it was back then is different then it is now, Flair matches were truly broadway shows and they came to see him for his iconic mannerisms/spots


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

lmao, Meltzer posted this on his board:


> The WWF guys didn't even know about WCW.
> 
> I would talk to WWF guys in town in the late 80s and most had no idea that the Midnight Express, Tully & Arn or Rock & Roll Express were any good. Unless you were in the territory with the guy most didn't know unless it was Flair or Dusty or the Road Warriors. They were traveling every day and not watching any wrestling on TV and very few studied tapes.
> 
> ...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Is the last segment with Rollins/Lesnar from last week on YT? My recording fucked up and missed the last hour of Raw.

EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6BoJLGhGvk Think this is it.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Here's Flair's '85 schedule copied properly. :side:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Rah said:


> The argument for Flair's formula was never said better than by Loss over on PWO:


Fabulous write up, but it just bangs my point home even more. Ric Flairs matches aren't anymore alike than just about every top hand in wrestling feom the 1980's to modern day. You could type up a "Ric Flair match formula" like the guy did on PWO for Undertaker, John Cena, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Rey Mysterio, and probably several others. Doesn't make their matches all the same or mean they are less talented, just means they know how to have a great match with their character and enjoy using the same loose outline and then adding in lots of different spots and story elements for variety. Like chess pieces on a chess board.

Now, here is another question: if we establish that the majority of the main event performers of the last 30 or so years have had a basic match outline they tend to use in most of their matches, who are some of the exceptions?

The first two guys that came to mind for me are Mick Foley (earlier years, not the stuff from 2004-2006 when he was on his last legs) and Chris Benoit. Eddie probably too, because he worked totally different matches when facing Rey, Benoit, JBL, Lesnar, Big Show, Angle, etc.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rah said:


> Here's Flair's '85 schedule copied properly. :side:


Jesus H Corbett, that is fucking insane. I do wonder how many of those are 'broadway' matches too. 

I know Flair's stamina is legendary, but man alive reading that really bangs it home.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Fabulous write up, but it just bangs my point home even more. Ric Flairs matches aren't anymore alike than just about every top hand in wrestling feom the 1980's to modern day. You could type up a "Ric Flair match formula" like the guy did on PWO for Undertaker, John Cena, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Rey Mysterio, and probably several others. Doesn't make their matches all the same or mean they are less talented, just means they know how to have a great match with their character and enjoy using the same loose outline and then adding in lots of different spots and story elements for variety. Like chess pieces on a chess board.
> 
> Now, here is another question: if we establish that the majority of the main event performers of the last 30 or so years have had a basic match outline they tend to use in most of their matches, who are some of the exceptions?
> 
> The first two guys that came to mind for me are Mick Foley (earlier years, not the stuff from 2004-2006 when he was on his last legs) and Chris Benoit. Eddie probably too, because he worked totally different matches when facing Rey, Benoit, JBL, Lesnar, Big Show, Angle, etc.


Dave Finlay, the Funker and as you said Eddie spring to mind. Dave is obvious. Funker: clean cut, mat wrestling 70s Funker would heavily take it to the mat vs someone like Jack Briscoe and then have a more targeted approach vs Harley. Get into Funk's hellacious 80's run: Funk and Hansen would often go at it with straight "two Texans throwing down" matches in AJPW, then in the states have a wilder approach ala Funk getting thrown in the Cooper River. Funk then would turn that crazy, brawling 80s approach into a very trash talking based game with a more vindictive, remorseless approach: most famously vs Lawler ala that No DQ and Empty Arena. Even still, once in a while Funk would go back to the mat based roots of the 70s and even used the powergame in rare times like vs Eddie Guerrero where he "underestimated the preceived tune-up" and of course in Puerto Rico Funk intentionally to stand out from the violence wrestled the very comedic style with the intentionally real cheesy setting. Of course, get into the 90s with third stage Funk getting sympathy wrestling that "uphill climb" brilliant style of the beautiful sell of getting up slower and slower every hit to have it sink in the audience and the personal appeals while also on offense throwing out the individual gameplans of the past and doing whatever crazy shit or using whatever to get the pinfall. 

There are many guys you could make arguments both for and against. It is funny though that Flair and Cena are the two most universally lambasted for being formulaic and neither are close to the biggest offenders.


----------



## tboneangle (Jan 14, 2009)

Holy shit. Does anyone remember cena vs angle from 03? It's super underrated. I know Big Dave gave it ****1/4 hell in temped to go higher than that. The storytelling of Thug Rapper vs American Hero was well done. One of cenas best matches IMO.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Yeah, it's an incredible match. MOTN from that No Mercy PPV. Tempted to give that match another watch since it's been a while.

Did you check out Tajiri/Mysterio from that very same show? It was the only match that came close to Angle/Cena as far as quality goes. Their other Smackdown matches from that year were :moyes1.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

LilOlMe said:


> lmao, Meltzer posted this on his board:


Classic Helmsley man. :lmao


Not surprised at all about the WWF/WCW thing. These guys were in the sport themselves so, IDK, they wouldn't read PWI mags and shit or have the time to watch the opposing company. That's the only way fans got to know about them if they didn't live around it.* Unless getting to face them, the wrestlers would barely get to know of their existence. It's jerky to say "if they're great why aren't they here?", but kind of expected from wrestlers, tbh.

*= that's kind of what I mean about the Flair spots, as well. It's like, imagine reading about Sabu in 1993 and then you get to see him live after two years and he doesn't do anything crazy. Some of you won't even have to imagine what it was like seeing wrestlers in magazines and wondering/wishing. You would've lived it.

I do agree with Loss, but, that doesn't automatically make it fun to watch. I get that. I get that some don't find Flair that fun to watch. I don't really understand the illogicality behind him. Well, OK, maybe the Flair flop. But, fuck, I don't know. Are 'drunk punches' realistic?.....No. They can't be. Are they fucking awesome? Fucking yeah fuck. Heel stooging basically revolves around your dedication to being Daffy Duck. And it's sadly kind of rare to see past the 90s, which is why everybody should watch Danielson/Lethal v. Strong/Aries from 2006. Gets knocked over from his own partner's legs b/c of an aeroplane spin. Brilliant.

I want to say everybody has a varying level realism threshold, but that would mean everything in wrestling has a strict, objective level of realism. Which, obviously it doesn't.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So with Tyson Kidd's injury, they shuffled up the July 4th Tokyo card. Cesaro is now facing Diego. :lmao 

That's right, Cesaro vs. Primo!


----------



## tboneangle (Jan 14, 2009)

Irrelevant said:


> Yeah, it's an incredible match. MOTN from that No Mercy PPV. Tempted to give that match another watch since it's been a while.
> 
> Did you check out Tajiri/Mysterio from that very same show? It was the only match that came close to Angle/Cena as far as quality goes. Their other Smackdown matches from that year were :moyes1.


Yup. I ordered every wwe ppv from 01-07. I miss the CW division. And the Mini division lol. Smack down 2002-2004 was the shit


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Just watched the 8 man tag from Raw 9/19/05 and it's pure FUN~. *** for me and the finish always cracks me up :lol


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Interesting week in podcasts. Flair had FUNKER on his show that I am just about going to listen to (should be money if that annoying Conrad aka Flair's partner doesn't intervene every 5 minutes), The Patriot is today's guest on the Steve Austin show, Big Show is gonna be on Jericho's podcast Friday (Show is pretty damn insightful actually when outside of character) and of course yesterday Jericho had the Great Khali. 

Found it interesting that Khali cites John Cena as his favorite opponent/best to work with. Yes, Cena and Del Rio are the only two I recall that got above average matches out of Khali (though some of those early Khali squashes are fun), but Taker sold his ass off for Khali and pretty much made him for however long Khali can be made. 
I could tell Jericho wanted to call BS, but Khali also is quite confident that he can go an hour in the ring :maury: I mean, I know Khali's bump taking is substantially lower than damn near anyone else in a 9 year timespan, but still that is laughable. There are alot of ring talented guys on the roster and I have my doubts that too many could put on a legitimately entertaining hour match. Hard task.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching Khali in a wrestling ring for an hour is tantamount to full on torture.

In fact watching Khali for any amount of time isn't a very good idea.

Watched this week's Raw earlier, Reigns/Sheamus was bloody good IMO, really enjoyed it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

NXT with another great show. Opening segment with Itami and Owens was great and Owens' mic work is unbelievable. His ability to improvise is off the charts. Go watch it. And then immediately after, we get blessed with Enzo Amore and Colin Cassidy. Dana Brooke's match was shockingly not terrible and the crowd was hilarious. Balor/Rhyno main event was also a good solid match with Balor selling his ribs and Owens being great on commentary.

Highlight of the show would have to be the Balor video package, and that's not a slight on any of the other segments. I love how NXT is putting effort into telling us who Finn is. And through these videos, I don't know how you can dislike him. The man plays with Legos and wears a Finn the Human t-shirt! And the bits about his time in NJPW with Lord Trainbert detailing on how brutal the New Japan dojo is made me gain even more respect for Balor. So excited for the July 4 show. I seriously don't know who will win.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i'm going to watch hhh/taker wrestlemania


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I think everyone should give Steve Austin's episode with the Patriot a listen. Fascinating documenting quite a road on the dark side of wrestling while being a workhorse. Even by Austin's show standards (pretty damn high bar), a brutally honest conversation. Real pleased to see Stan the man put over so strongly.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

KENNY said:


> i'm going to watch hhh/taker wrestlemania


It better be WM 17 or GTFO....





But seriously, am I 100% on my own in thinking WM 17 >> WM 28 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WM 27?


Oh fuck God damn it it happened again, here we are talking about those goddamn mother fucking WM Taker/Trips matches. ABORT MISSION ABORT MISSION!


So, just watched Danielson/McGuinness Driven 07' for the first time....and damn. I have been staunchly defending the idea that McGuiness/Danielson at the 6th Anniversary Show in 2008 is the finest match to ever grace an ROH ring. Now, I'm not even sure if it's the best McGuiness/Danielson match to ever grace an ROH ring. I could be overreacting because of just how FUCKING AWESOME that finish was. I mean, I don't think I am because the entire match was "edge of my seat" amazing and I was hooked from the opening bell. But the finish....2 guys bouncing off the ropes full force head butting each other until Danielson gets busted open hardway, gives precisely zero fucks, delivers a KNOCKOUT shot to McGuinness, rolls through cinches in Cattle Mutilation and Nigel is out cold before the ref even gets down to check on him. Epic. Purely epic. That finish could have easily come off as horseshit if handled by 2 performers less talented and capable than these two, but it's THE BEST IN THE WORLD BRYAN DANIELSON and Nigel friggin McGuinness who was comfortably in that discussion during this time. They nailed it. They nailed the entire match. They were so in sync with each other, so in tune, that the 1 single moment in that match that something wasn't fluid and natural, when McGuinness barely grazed Danielson with that kick, wasn't even noticeable unless you really paid attention because Danielson was smart enough not to sell it and Nigel was smart enough to immediately take Bryans head clean off his shoulders with a lariat.

This was a 5-star, perfect match to me. Just friggin perfect. Now I want to go back and watch the 6th anniversary bout again just to see if it has really been surpassed in my eyes as the best in ROH history. 6th anniversary undoubtedly is more character/story/selling based, and I love that, but if that match is like an episode of True Detective or The Godfather, Driven was like Mad Max Fury Road: flawless executed, action packed, wonderfully engrossing cinematic artwork. 

Andddddd. I just got my buzz killed big time. Just remembered that there is a 50/50 chance we will never seen Bryan Danielson/Daniel Bryan wrestle again. I hope to god it isn't true. If I could have 1 wish in all of wrestling it would be for him to have another 5+ years of good health to finish his storied career and enter himself officially into "greatest in ring performer ever?" conversation. As it is now, even if he never wrestles again, he's still one of the best we will ever see.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

No I don't think your alone at all. In fact, I think that opinion is pretty common considering the WM 27 match at worst is considered a cluster and commonly seen as "pretty good, not great" and certainly in that amazing 23-29 stretch usually seen as the weak link there and 28 has been quite polarizing. Some both in business and fans say it was one of the best matches in 15 years (one seasoned, usually wise fan I know called it the best wwe match since Michaels/Taker HIAC when he saw it), yet on the other hand there are those of us who find it quite overrated or at least eye rolling. Personally, I appreciated what the three went for with the "what will it take to put down the deadman and if conflicted Shawn wont ring the bell HHH will end his career", and certainly there were enjoyable sections ala the Michaels interactions, particularly the Superkick/Pedigree spot and I liked the finish; obviously with the way the match was structured the fans popped loud. Yet. I personally laughed at the lengths the two went to tell the story they were trying to tell to the point that by the time it was over it seemed to beat the streak, you practically had to shoot the Undertaker with a revolver to keep him down and he still might kick out. I hate when the cell isn't the story and rather a generic backdrop as well, so that is a major mark against it I have and a disappointment when Taker had a GOAT candidate vs Michaels in the first cell in 97 playing one of the best predator roles we have seen, perhaps the most famous modern wrestling match vs Foley, that fantastic bloody Lesnar war and had a great match vs Orton (albeit that night Orton had a special, one of his career performances) and Trips obviously had the great, physical match vs Batista and the classic Foley HIAC: and most those matches used the cell as the key element/guide of the match in varying ways. I hate to be so damn negative but those pin attempts barring the Michaels spot got awfully contrived too (though one could defend that by saying "it is the freaking streak match"). I think most of us would agree though that aside from that extremely long and awkward referee bump (gotta be one of the longest in the 21st century), 17 was a fun to watch and overall quite solid free for all hand thrower that was a nice effort on both sides.

Myself, I can see the arguments heavily against it, but I thought 27 was a good match, and I would comfortably go 17, 27 and 28. Any time I rewatch 28 I just see more and more wrong with it against my tastes. My personal least favorite of the awesome 23-29 run

Somebody in here may not have seen this (I myself haven't until tonight), but don't let the simplistic formula fool ya: this is a badass little match. I mean hell, seeing Lawler opposite of Hansen in the ring is an awesome sight and a deep contrast minus the compliment of Lawler historically good at selling on the heat and Hansen in my opinion historically good at selling the shine/retribution). Add in Lance Russell on commentary and throw in at the time feuding with Hansen Austin Idol and some antics in here and this is really cool imo.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

The Sixth Anniversary Show match is in fact the _third_ best Danielson/McGuinness match ever to grace an ROH ring. The Driven match is indeed even better, and the Unified match pretty much smokes both of them. And the Sixth Anniversary Show match is friggin' amazing. 

Watching Bryan Danielson in ROH was like watching Michael Jordan or Wayne Gretzky in their primes, where yeah, he were the best pro wrestler in the world, but it was more than that: You could honestly wonder if _anybody_ had _ever_ been as good at _anything_ as he was at pro wrestling at that point.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Trip/Taker at WM17 is gross. I'd almost bet I'd like WM27 more. WM28 I probably purely like more b/c it's funny but it's also probably worse. Throw in KOTR 02 and that match from TV in 02/03 and you might have a pretty stinky five-oilgy (!?) of matches. Probably had a couple OK matches in 1999 IDR.

I think I thought Driven was better than Unified, but not 6YA. 

Could've sworn there were two Lawler/Idol v. Hansen/Ventura tags. Might be thinking Lawler/Bigelow v. Landel/Dundee or something. There's probably four of those. I remember this specific one not being in full and it killed me because I thought what we got in just mere clips looked like hints of one of the best brawl ever. edit - wait, we have pretty-much-full/or full Lawler/Bigelow v. Rich/Idol x2 on the Memphis comp. OK, so there's ONE w/ Landel & Dundee that I only saw clips of? Fuck it. WWE do you have this in full? Release it? Or, I don't know, Lawler's match with Michael Cole is more important for his DVD. You coonts.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> It better be WM 17 or GTFO....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i watched 17 last night 

also watched a few matches off wrestlemania 16.

might watch hhh/taker wm 27/28, might watch the hbk/taker series instead


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Guys, because I forget - if you have a match you want me to upload that I might have, post it to my wall so I'll at least have a reminder in place. I'm positive a few people wanted some things and I'm positive I was already reminded. So, throwing that out there. This goes for whoever hasn't already asked, as well. I'd probably decline if it's an hour long match or something but yeah.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

yeah1993 can you recommend some good chris masters superstars matches pls






how do people rate orton/benoit summerslam 2004?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Bruce L said:


> The Sixth Anniversary Show match is in fact the _third_ best Danielson/McGuinness match ever to grace an ROH ring. The Driven match is indeed even better, and the Unified match pretty much smokes both of them. And the Sixth Anniversary Show match is friggin' amazing.
> 
> Watching Bryan Danielson in ROH was like watching Michael Jordan or Wayne Gretzky in their primes, where yeah, he were the best pro wrestler in the world, but it was more than that: You could honestly wonder if _anybody_ had _ever_ been as good at _anything_ as he was at pro wrestling at that point.


Agree to disagree. I have maybe 10-12 wrestling matches actually saved to my computer to pull up and watch at any time. 8 of them are Danielson matches: Danielson/McGuinness 6th Anniversary, Danielson/McGuinness Driven 07, Danielson/McGuinness Unified 06, Danielson/Black New Horizons 08, Danielson/KENTA Glory by Honor 05, Danielson/Shingo DGUSA, and Danielson/Morishima Manhattan Mayhem 07'.

The point? Those are ALL matches someone could give ***** to and no one would think twice. Danielson had all of them in a 3 and 1/2 year stretch. That IS Gretzky in the 1980's for the Oilers, or MJ for the Bulls in 1980's. As much as I love and adore Eddie, Benoit, Hansen, Vader, Bret Hart, Undertaker, etc.....if Bryan had stayed 100% healthy and retired from full time work at 40 and just made 1 match appearances here and there for another 2-3 years.....he would have to widely regarded as the best ever in ring performer. Over Misawa, over Michaels, over Flair, over Benoit, over Eddie, over Bret Hart, Hansen, Taker, Tenryu, Kobashi, Terry Funk, you name it. Danielson would have been hands down the best. He could have had 20+ singles matches worthy of 5-stars if he got programs with Rollins, Cesaro, Owens, Lesnar, and Sami Zayn when you add in the work he's already done. Even Meltzer and his boner for Misawa wouldn't be able to deny he'd been surpassed.

Alas, it looks like Danielson is destined to just be in the general "best ever?" discussion, as if that's anything he should be dissapointment in, as opposed to the new consensus.



Yeah1993 said:


> Trip/Taker at WM17 is gross. I'd almost bet I'd like WM27 more. WM28 I probably purely like more b/c it's funny but it's also probably worse. Throw in KOTR 02 and that match from TV in 02/03 and you might have a pretty stinky five-oilgy (!?) of matches. Probably had a couple OK matches in 1999 IDR.
> 
> I think I thought Driven was better than Unified, but not 6YA.
> 
> Could've sworn there were two Lawler/Idol v. Hansen/Ventura tags. Might be thinking Lawler/Bigelow v. Landel/Dundee or something. There's probably four of those. I remember this specific one not being in full and it killed me because I thought what we got in just mere clips looked like hints of one of the best brawl ever. edit - wait, we have pretty-much-full/or full Lawler/Bigelow v. Rich/Idol x2 on the Memphis comp. OK, so there's ONE w/ Landel & Dundee that I only saw clips of? Fuck it. WWE do you have this in full? Release it? Or, I don't know, Lawler's match with Michael Cole is more important for his DVD. You coonts.


If it wasn't for that ridiculous, absurd, "why in the actual fuck did they think that would look good?", choke slam onto the huge comfy blatantly obvious mattress off the scaffold in the WM 17 match, I would have thought it was an outright great match. As it is it's still very good and I enjoy it roughly 6x more than anything else they ever did with each other. Dunno why I can't explain it, maybe because Trips wasn't so hammy and forced back in 2001 like he was in 2011-2012. 

Damnit not again we are still talking about those damn matches. ENOUGH!



KENNY said:


> yeah1993 can you recommend some good chris masters superstars matches pls
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very well, however it's only their 4th best match IMO.

For me, it's:

1. Benoit vs Orton SD 1/16/06 ****1/2 (one of my personal all time favorites, watch this if you want to watch a beautiful, rugged, mat based struggle that builds slowly, layer upon layer, until an AWESOME crescendo. Watching Orton in this match will piss you off so bad because he shows when he wanted it he could go hold for hold on the mat with one of the best ever.)

2. Benoit vs Orton No DQ SD 1/27/06 ****1/4
3. Benoit vs Orton Raw 8/16/04 ****1/4 (night after SS and easily better than SS IMO)
4. Benoit vs Orton Summerslam 2004 ****


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Got an email from WWE saying don't miss RAW in Washington DC this Monday and they advertised the main event as John Cena & Roman Reigns vs. Seth Rollins & Kevin Owens. No idea if that will be a dark match or not, but it sounds pretty sweet. (Y)

------------------------------
@KENNY


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Agree to disagree. I have maybe 10-12 wrestling matches actually saved to my computer to pull up and watch at any time. 8 of them are Danielson matches: Danielson/McGuinness 6th Anniversary, Danielson/McGuinness Driven 07, Danielson/McGuinness Unified 06, Danielson/Black New Horizons 08, Danielson/KENTA Glory by Honor 05, Danielson/Shingo DGUSA, and Danielson/Morishima Manhattan Mayhem 07'.
> 
> The point? Those are ALL matches someone could give ***** to and no one would think twice. Danielson had all of them in a 3 and 1/2 year stretch. That IS Gretzky in the 1980's for the Oilers, or MJ for the Bulls in 1980's. As much as I love and adore Eddie, Benoit, Hansen, Vader, Bret Hart, Undertaker, etc.....if Bryan had stayed 100% healthy and retired from full time work at 40 and just made 1 match appearances here and there for another 2-3 years.....he would have to widely regarded as the best ever in ring performer. Over Misawa, over Michaels, over Flair, over Benoit, over Eddie, over Bret Hart, Hansen, Taker, Tenryu, Kobashi, Terry Funk, you name it. Danielson would have been hands down the best. He could have had 20+ singles matches worthy of 5-stars if he got programs with Rollins, Cesaro, Owens, Lesnar, and Sami Zayn when you add in the work he's already done. Even Meltzer and his boner for Misawa wouldn't be able to deny he'd been surpassed.
> 
> Alas, it looks like Danielson is destined to just be in the general "best ever?" discussion, as if that's anything he should be dissapointment in, as opposed to the new consensus.


Yeah, that's... not really disagreement.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Anyone up to do another one of those things where each of us watches and reviews a series of one-on-one matches? We had one of those a few years ago, but only three or four people actually did their part, but now that we've trimmed the fat in this thread I'm sure we have more dedicated folks left (except for you Yeah1993 :side. On top of that, this thread has been dead for about a month.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Bruce L said:


> Yeah, that's... not really disagreement.


I was referring to you saying Unified > Driven > 6th Anniversary dingus 



funnyfaces1 said:


> Anyone up to do another one of those things where each of us watches and reviews a series of one-on-one matches? We had one of those a few years ago, but only three or four people actually did their part, but now that we've trimmed the fat in this thread I'm sure we have more dedicated folks left (except for you Yeah1993 :side. On top of that, this thread has been dead for about a month.


I'd love to. So how does it go? Like I say to you "Go watch every Tanahashi/Okada match." And you go watch the 3-4 that they have had, review them, rate them, and rank them? And you tell me what to watch?


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Anyone up to do another one of those things where each of us watches and reviews a series of one-on-one matches? We had one of those a few years ago, but only three or four people actually did their part, but now that we've trimmed the fat in this thread I'm sure we have more dedicated folks left (except for you Yeah1993 :side. On top of that, this thread has been dead for about a month.


I'd be down for that. Do we call our own series or do we each nominate a series for others? Wasn't around years ago. 

Spreading the interesting matchup wealth from coincidentally the same year: here is one with 3 great workers and all 4 are quite capable (the Assasin had a solid Puerto Rico run). Some fun as hell spots in this with simple yet rock solid tag psychology that is lost nowadays, a quite firey performance from Henning who can translate that fire in the simplest way. Lots of old school stuff here, I mean for instance, who the hell instead of the whole arm hones in on working the wrist anymore outside of when Regal steps in the ring? ***1/2.


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Agree to disagree. I have maybe 10-12 wrestling matches actually saved to my computer to pull up and watch at any time. 8 of them are Danielson matches: Danielson/McGuinness 6th Anniversary, Danielson/McGuinness Driven 07, Danielson/McGuinness Unified 06, Danielson/Black New Horizons 08, Danielson/KENTA Glory by Honor 05, Danielson/Shingo DGUSA, and Danielson/Morishima Manhattan Mayhem 07'.
> 
> The point? Those are ALL matches someone could give ***** to and no one would think twice. Danielson had all of them in a 3 and 1/2 year stretch. That IS Gretzky in the 1980's for the Oilers, or MJ for the Bulls in 1980's. As much as I love and adore Eddie, Benoit, Hansen, Vader, Bret Hart, Undertaker, etc.....if Bryan had stayed 100% healthy and retired from full time work at 40 and just made 1 match appearances here and there for another 2-3 years.....he would have to widely regarded as the best ever in ring performer. Over Misawa, over Michaels, over Flair, over Benoit, over Eddie, over Bret Hart, Hansen, Taker, Tenryu, Kobashi, Terry Funk, you name it. Danielson would have been hands down the best. He could have had 20+ singles matches worthy of 5-stars if he got programs with Rollins, Cesaro, Owens, Lesnar, and Sami Zayn when you add in the work he's already done. Even Meltzer and his boner for Misawa wouldn't be able to deny he'd been surpassed.
> 
> Alas, it looks like Danielson is destined to just be in the general "best ever?" discussion, as if that's anything he should be dissapointment in, as opposed to the new consensus.


I definitely think that Bryan is the GOAT when it comes to in ring work. Never seen a guy who has been as constantly good as he has been since 2002.

Here is the Danielson matches that I have at 5-stars:

vs. Low Ki (Round Robin Challenge)
vs. Paul London (The Epic Encounter)
vs. Roderick Strong (Vendetta)
vs. Nigel McGuinness (Unified)
vs. KENTA (Glory By Honor V)
vs. Nigel McGuinness (Driven)
vs. Takeshi Morishima (Manhattan Mayhem II)
vs. Nigel McGuinness (6th Anniversary Show)
vs. SHINGO (Enter the Dragon 2010)

vs. CM Punk (Over the Limit 2012)
vs. John Cena (SummerSlam 2013)
vs. Triple H (Wrestlemania 30).

And then there are matches like vs. Tyler Black (New Horizons), vs. Chris Hero (Guerre Sans Frontiéres) & vs. Samoa Joe (Midnight Express Reunion) that I could bump to 5-stars after a re-watch. No one has a better match catalog than The American Dragon.

That is 12 matches. 12 absolutely perfect matches. That is more than anyone in the history IMO. The one that comes closest in my book is Nigel McGuinness w/ 5 ***** matches. 3 of them were vs. Danielson, btw. 

And you should definitely check out Bryan/Nigel from Rising Above. That is one of their best matches. Have that at ****3/4. 

And talking about Bryan, I recently watched the "Just Say Yes! Yes! Yes!" DVD that WWE released, and it's great. Love the documentary, and it's one of my favorite WWE documentaries alongside the ones they made for Punk, Foley & HHH.

Some match ratings:

American Dragon & Shooter Schultz vs. Brian Kendrick & Lance Cade (SmackDown 02/08/00) - **3/4
Bryan Danielson vs. Jamie Noble (Velocity 01/18/03) - ***
Daniel Bryan vs. Chris Jericho (NXT 02/23/10) - **1/2
Daniel Bryan vs. The Miz (Night of Champions 2010) - ****1/4
Daniel Bryan vs. Big Show (TLC 2011) - No rating, but that was such a great moment
Daniel Bryan vs. Big Show (SmackDown 01/06/12) - ***1/4
Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus (Extreme Rules 2012) - ****3/4
Daniel Bryan vs. CM Punk (Money In The Bank 2012) - ****1/2
Team Hell No vs. Kofi Kingston & R-Truth (Night of Champions 2012) - **1/2
Daniel Bryan vs. Antonio Cesaro (RAW 07/22/13) - ****1/2
Daniel Bryan vs. Ryback (RAW 07/22/13) - ***1/4
Daniel Bryan vs. John Cena (SummerSlam 2013) - *****
Daniel Bryan vs. Randy Orton (RAW 03/17/14) - ***1/2
Daniel Bryan vs. Batista vs. Randy Orton (Wrestlemania 30) - ****1/2
Daniel Bryan vs. Roman Reigns (Fastlane) - ****1/2.

So yeah, while his pre-WWE run is pretty much untouchable, he has had a damn great career in the E so far. GOAT. :bryan


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

NastyYaffa said:


> I definitely think that Bryan is the GOAT when it comes to in ring work. Never seen a guy who has been as constantly good as he has been since 2002.
> 
> Here is the Danielson matches that I have at 5-stars:
> 
> ...



Yea, like I said as of right now at the very least he's in the discussion and you can make a case for him, as you stated. It's just that, if he gets himself healthy and WWE shows they have a heart and gives him the "Shawn Michaels" schedule, aka no house shows, only wrestles on TV once or twice a month and usually in tags/multi man matches, and only lets him wrestle full bore on PPV, but they give him at least 15 minutes at each PPV so he can steal the show, then I think he WILL go down as the best.

You have a lot more "5-star matches" for him than I do. His highest rated WWE match for me is the OTL 2012 match with Punk and I gave that ****3/4. The matches of his I have at 5 stars are Unified 2006, Driven 2007, and 6th Anniversary vs Nigel, Manhattan Mayhem vs Morishima, and New Horizons vs Tyler Black. The Shingo, Kenta, and Strong matches I gave ****3/4. Haven't seen the Doi match or the Man Up Nigel match. 

That's all really irrelevant though, just our opinions, those matches are all either flawless or damn near flawless and I think any wresrling fan will readily admit that.

If we are going by ring work and ring work only, then I'd only put Benoit slightly ahead of Bryan. Benoit at his best was still better than Bryan I think. But to be honest no one will probably ever top Benoit when it comes to just ring work because after what happened with him no one should ever try. To be that intense, wrestle that hard, pump your body full of so many steroids that you become one huge coiled spring of intensity delivering every move with maximum precision and impact, it shouldn't be mimicked because we have seen what it does to your body. The only reason Bryans work doesn't look as good as Benoits to me is because Bryan was smart enough not to turn himself into a completely jacked up pit bull with ridiculous strength for a body that size, strength that enables you to put a little extra "oomph" into every move. Shit, Bryan got as close to Benoit as anyone without actually surpassing him and even Bryans body couldn't take it as we see now.

I do also think that Benoit did have the benefit of some better opponents. True Bryan got to wrestle some real greats in Punk, Nigel, Morishima, KENTA, Cesaro, Rollins, Cena, etc. But Benoit got to wrestle Finlay, Regal, Steve Austin, Eddie Guerrero, Kurt Angle, Jushin Liger (when he was in his prime), Rey Mysterio, Brock Lesnar, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Chris Jericho, etc. Compare those two lists. Kinda understandable then that Benoit has the better OVERALL catalog. Bryans top 10 is every bit as good as Benoits top 10. Top 20 probably as well. But top 50? Top 100? Benoit pulls a good bit ahead because he wrestled the best in the world from 1990-2007. The only all time greats in the US that Benoit didn't wrestle a GREAT match with in that span are Undertaker (they faced once or twice in 2000 but they were throw away/nothing matches), Mick Foley, Vader, and maybe 3-4 others. Bryan simply didn't get than chance because WWE had their head stuffed into their own ass in 2005 instead of signing guys like Bryan, Samoa Joe, Nigel, etc. So while he got to face a lot of really great wrestlers, he didn't get to wrestle nearly as many ALL TIME great wrestlers.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

In the past, people would just choose what series to watch and then they would review it. I like the idea of one person suggesting a series to another as that may get people to check out something that they normally would not. Of course this concept is pretty premature, but something needs to be done to spice up this thread. And WWE's current content certainly isn't doing it :lol


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> In the past, people would just choose what series to watch and then they would review it. I like the idea of one person suggesting a series to another as that may get people to check out something that they normally would not. Of course this concept is pretty premature, but something needs to be done to spice up this thread. And WWE's current content certainly isn't doing it :lol


Why do you think I've been on such a Danielson binge the past 24 hours :lmao. There is not much that interests me on WWE these days outside of Brock, Cesaro, occasionally Ambrose when they book him right, and the same with Rollins, of course Zayn, occasionally Neville, and then Owens. But the fact that I'm interested in them doesn't mean they are doing something worth watching right now, outside of Owens I don't really have any idea what's going on, because I don't watch Raw. I just realized last night that it has been OVER 2 YEARS since a classic match took place on Raw or Smackdown. Feb. 27, 2013 was the last time a certified classic was wrestled on WWE TV in the Punk vs Cena final battle. 

And FUCK. Just realized my Kenta vs Danielson Glory By Honor download is gone. Poof. Vanished. The fuck. If @Yeah1993 or @Brock would upload it I would GREATLY appreciate it. The Roderick Strong vs Danielson Vendetta or the Naruki Doi vs Danielson will also work if you don't that 

Also, did anyone else notice that in Unified 06', Driven 07', and 6th Anniversary 08', Danielson and Nigel wrestle each match with a different face/heel alignment? When has that ever been done? Unified is in England, Nigel's home turf, so Danielson is the heel and Nigel the sympathetic home town hero who gets bloodied and beaten. At Driven it's Babyface vs Babyface in front of a natural Philly crowd, with both guys getting max support from the crowd. Then at 6th Anniversary Nigel is the biggest asshole you've ever seen and Bryan is the Boy Scout baby face. That's amazing that they managed to have 3 consecutive 5-star caliber matches in a 3 year span with 3 different face/heel alignments.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Check your PM Chris.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Danielson/McGuinness 6YA is the best ROH match ever, not only that, but one of the best wrestling matches ever I've ever seen. It's definitely one of my favourites. It's a masterpiece. And Danielson is probably in my top 5 wrestlers ever list, but as good as he is in that match, that's Nigel's match. It makes me sad knowing what could have been with Nigel. The man is in the discussion for the best wrestler of the last 10 years, and that's with only being active until 2011. For me, he wasn't far off Danielson in ROH. His run as champion is amazing.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Bubz said:


> Danielson/McGuinness 6YA is the best ROH match ever, not only that, but one of the best wrestling matches ever I've ever seen. It's definitely one of my favourites. It's a masterpiece. And Danielson is probably in my top 5 wrestlers ever list, but as good as he is in that match, that's Nigel's match. It makes me sad knowing what could have been with Nigel. The man is in the discussion for the best wrestler of the last 10 years, and that's with only being active until 2011. For me, he wasn't far off Danielson in ROH. His run as champion is amazing.


Couldn't agree more Bubz in re: the 6YA bout being Nigel's shining moment. He didn't carry the match so much as the entire design and story of the match rested on Nigel's performance, Bryan could have been at his absolute best, and he was, but it wouldn't have mattered if Nigel went too over the top with the character work, or went the opposite way and went too subtle for people to get what he was doing. That's up there in the pantheon of all time great character performances in a match. The first thing I think of when I think of that match is Nigel grabbing the mic and saying "You bloody wankers, you wanted your title match, you got your title match" with that cockney accent of his and him trying to stroll out of the arena with the title in hand after he took offense to Bryan giving him a belly to back Suplex :lol. 

Nigel absolutely 100% could have and SHOULD have been at the very least a regularly featured upper mid card act in the WWE. Maybe not a big time main event guy, but at the very least on the Seamus, ADR, Ziggler, etc level. He had a great look, he was one of the best workers and storytellers in the ring, he could be a sadisitic yet cowardice heel and always a sympathetic baby face, and he was always excellent on the mic. He did have a few traits that were grating in his work, like intentionally falling into the ropes to do the jawbreaker lariat all the time, which Ambrose has now taken to doing for some reason, but all in all he was WAY too good not to have ever been given a fair shot at the WWE. It would be different if he never wanted to go there, totally understandable even, but he obviously did, and it sucks how things went for him.

One thing I REALLY appreciated having watched their 3 classics in 06, 07, and 08 in the past 24 hours is that NONE of their fabulous, perfect, all time classic matches featured multiple finisher kick outs. That's so refreshing to see, even if it sucks you gotta watch matches from 7-9 years ago to see it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Anyone up to do another one of those things where each of us watches and reviews a series of one-on-one matches? We had one of those a few years ago, but only three or four people actually did their part, but now that we've trimmed the fat in this thread I'm sure we have more dedicated folks left (except for you Yeah1993 :side. On top of that, this thread has been dead for about a month.




I would do that. Well I'd say I would do it, at least. I'd choose a series. I actually remember that and I chose Rey/Punk, which means after watching 2010 Rey/Punks I only have a couple left. I was looking for their 2011 match but could never find it.

Fuck me, I could finally re-watch Slaughter/Sheik, Valentine/Santana or Steamboat/Savage feuds in full. Or in some of those cases, see matches for the first time. I would consider Dragon/McGuinness but they have an hour match I'm not looking too forward to watching again. Wasn't huge on that, or the other match before Unified.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I would do that. Well I'd say I would do it, at least. I'd choose a series. I actually remember that and I chose Rey/Punk, which means after watching 2010 Rey/Punks I only have a couple left. I was looking for their 2011 match but could never find it.
> 
> Fuck me, I could finally re-watch Slaughter/Sheik, Valentine/Santana or Steamboat/Savage feuds in full. Or in some of those cases, see matches for the first time. I would consider Dragon/McGuinness but they have an hour match I'm not looking too forward to watching again. Wasn't huge on that, or the other match before Unified.



I'm by no means making the rules here but just suggesting something. We can always pick for ourselves of course but I feel like it's not gonna broaden my horizons, I'll just pick something I would watch anyway.

We can have it so, everyone that wants to do this little review group nominates one feud of their choice. We can make some guidelines like: must have a minimum of 3 matches and a maximum of 9 or 10 or whatever you feel is right. You have to pick a GOOD feud with GREAT matches, don't stick some poor helpless sap with the Orton/HHH rivalry in other words. And you have to submit links for the matches in the feud so you know they can be found.

Once everyone has submitted them to me or whomever wants to do it, they will get randomly assigned to each member as long as we don't have someone getting assigned their own feud.

Just a thought. Or you can all pick your own and then if one of you would be so kind just pick one for me or else I know I'm just gonna end up doing something with Vader, Eddie, Foley, Benoit, or Finlay cause I have most of their big feuds right within reach.

By the way @Yeah1993 : for some strange reason I had NEVER seen the Vader vs Davey Boy Smith match from Slamboree 1993....WHY HAD I NEVER SEEN THIS UNTIL NOW???!!! WHY DOES NO ONE TALK ABOUT THIS MATCH?!?! Gut reaction I think it was as good as any of the Vader/Sting matches outside the Strap Match and GAB 1992. It might even be as good as GAB 1992. It's absolutely fucking awesome, one big power house facing down with the best monster ever while refusing to back down....Davey takes one HELL of a fucking ass kicking too. Major props, Vader was getting ornery at different times and throwing 100% full force forearm clubs in the corner, they were both slamming the shit out of each other and selling the effects spectacularly...what am I missing here? Why doesn't this get brought up as a GREAT match? I never thought to watch it until I saw Cal mention in passing it was awesome in a post.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> By the way @Yeah1993 : for some strange reason I had NEVER seen the Vader vs Davey Boy Smith match from Slamboree 1993....WHY HAD I NEVER SEEN THIS UNTIL NOW???!!! WHY DOES NO ONE TALK ABOUT THIS MATCH?!?*! Gut reaction I think it was as good as any of the Vader/Sting matches outside the Strap Match and GAB 1992. It might even be as good as GAB 1992. *It's absolutely fucking awesome, one big power house facing down with the best monster ever while refusing to back down....Davey takes one HELL of a fucking ass kicking too. Major props, Vader was getting ornery at different times and throwing 100% full force forearm clubs in the corner, they were both slamming the shit out of each other and selling the effects spectacularly...what am I missing here? Why doesn't this get brought up as a GREAT match? I never thought to watch it until I saw Cal mention in passing it was awesome in a post.


:woah


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Skins said:


> :woah


I don't think that was that out of line or insane, obvious the Strap match at SuperBrawl III is superior by a considerable margin, but, well, maybe it's because this was the first time I've seen that match and I've seen all the Vader/Sting's 4-5 times each. But it was friggin sweet. I give Davey a lot of credit man Vader was being ROUGH with him and he took everything Vader gave him and kept firing right back. Watch Davey cover up when he's been assaulted by Vader in the corner, that ain't acting or selling, that's someones instinct reaction to having someone else bash your brains in. Davey even some how from a completely seated position got Vader up on his shoulders, hoisted him up, and gave him an electric chair drop. Plus that delayed vertical Suplex he does. Dude must have been strong, strong, strong. Couldn't have all been gas/steroids to do stuff like that.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Found this and had to share it here. Footage from the 4-way main event from Cleveland. I was losing my fucking MIND during this match! :mark:


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Funny you guys have been taking about Nigel. Just got a Nigel DVD in the mail yesterday. Really liked that Nigel vs. KENTA 3/21/09 match. Was surprised by what happened with the ending.
@Brock, thank you so much! Downloaded it. 

Anyone have Samoa Joe vs. Kenta Kobashi complete with entrances? It's on Youtube, but not with the entrances.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I'm by no means making the rules here but just suggesting something. We can always pick for ourselves of course but I feel like it's not gonna broaden my horizons, I'll just pick something I would watch anyway.
> 
> We can have it so, everyone that wants to do this little review group nominates one feud of their choice. We can make some guidelines like: must have a minimum of 3 matches and a maximum of 9 or 10 or whatever you feel is right. You have to pick a GOOD feud with GREAT matches, don't stick some poor helpless sap with the Orton/HHH rivalry in other words. And you have to submit links for the matches in the feud so you know they can be found.
> 
> ...


You mean everybody watches the same feud, or one person chooses a feud for each individual to watch? The former would get stale if we're all writing about the matches, but the latter isn't a bad idea at all. EDIT - I think I understand now. I'd be willing to consider that, but would prob watch what I picked anyway as well. 



I like Vader/Davey Boy a bunch, but think I prefer the Clash match from August. I wouldn't put either of them on level with maybe the fifth best Vader/Sting, though. 

Checked my WCW list, Vader/Davey Clash was at #98 , Slamboree wasn't on it. I could probably change my opinion since that was years ago, but I'm basically 100% positive I wouldn't sit them next to the top 3 Sting matches. Have you seen Vader/Bossman? I had that at 97 but I know that's probably LITERALLY fifty spots too low. I honestly don't know what I was thinking.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> Funny you guys have been taking about Nigel. Just got a Nigel DVD in the mail yesterday. Really liked that Nigel vs. KENTA 3/21/09 match. Was surprised by what happened with the ending.
> 
> @Brock, thank you so much! Downloaded it.
> 
> Anyone have Samoa Joe vs. Kenta Kobashi complete with entrances? It's on Youtube, but not with the entrances.





Spoiler: A Spoiler



Check your PM


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

probably a question asked a lot

but i'm about to watch hbk/taker wm25 and wm26, and then watch hhh/taker wm28 (i watched wm27 earlier). how do people rate them all?


----------



## mrdiamond77 (Feb 14, 2015)

KENNY said:


> probably a question asked a lot
> 
> but i'm about to watch hbk/taker wm25 and wm26, and then watch hhh/taker wm28 (i watched wm27 earlier). how do people rate them all?


I found both Michaels matches to be superior to the HHH matches. A lot of it comes down to Michaels being a better worker for me than Hunter and there was more actual wrestling in the Michaels matches. The HHH matches were brawls which possibly did suit Hunter. The WM25 match is the best for me then WM26 with WM27 & 28 on about the same level. All are enjoyable though a bit overkill on having the wrestlers kicking out of each others finishers.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

WM25 > WM 26 > WM28 >>>>>>WM27


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Both Michaels matches are ***** for me; action is better at 25, story is better at 26, but both rule the proverbial school. Haven't watched either of the HHH matches. Reviews were too mixed for me to invest the time in '11-'12 HHH trying to force a WM epic with the forced story that he's part of the same "dying breed" as Taker.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

That's actually a good way of summing the Taker/HBK matches up for me too tbh. Action is better in WM25, but WM26 has that story.

I love both, but still prefer 25, but 26 does have that jumping tombstone, which I'll always mark for.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Both are off the charts: but to quote Shawn Michaels' opinion on 25 "there is no such thing as a perfect match, but I truly believe Taker and I achieved as close as it gets". I wouldnt subscribe that far considering while I really love that match, it isn't my very favorite of all time, but I mean the stars all aligned that night for a masterpiece. That card wasn't loaded by any stretch, so when Michaels/Taker came on, the fans had plenty in the tank; Jim Ross put in a hell of a call, that light/darkness build was I think underrated; Michaels and Taker hadn't wrestled in a one on one encounter outside of that Royal Rumble long interraction in 11 years. Match wise, while that formula has now hurt the wwe since seemingly everyone tries to emulate it at ppvs without the timing, setup and straight skill to do so, the formula at the time was quite thrilling and worked in spades for excitement and that section anyways was set up by some money storytelling even out of the gate with the power puncher vs speed. While I take nothing away from Shawn Michaels: Undertaker that night had just a masterful performance with not just putting his heart in that match but just little veteran things. That deep sigh after the kickout both in dissapointment and registering Michael's crossface when Taker was in it for the sidewalk slam, his selling that night for old Shawn was wonderful (really sold the drama of that countout spot after that botch), that classic predator pace, the sheer look in Taker's eyes even before the bell rang with that focus, pulling out the military press slam at 45 years old, the now famous look of disbelief that was captured so well just in an organic moment that Taker has never and will likely never be able to recreate. 

The stars were so alligned for that one that a gargantuan botch that could've broke Taker's neck if went worse ended up weaving it's way into a cool, unique section and is now classic instead of tragic. An interesting story from that: never have gotten around to reading HBK's latest book, but I read an excerpt from the chapter where he discusses the 25 match and Michaels said (as reflected in the conflicted ref spot) that if anything like that were to happen, the two specifically told the agents before the match and instructed the ref to make the count as usual because they wanted the match to be as organic as possible and if Taker physically couldn't answer that ten count, the match would've literally ended right there, which given that nasty spill probably put the streak in the most danger it has been in since it became highlighted at 17 outside of that RKO spot at 21. *****, top 10 wwe match no questions asked, and this comes from a guy whose taste is physicality. 

26 has that beautiful ending set up with that stretch of Taker hitting that tombstone and Cole with that uncharacteristically great call of "Tombstone piledriver. Undertaker trying to drive Michaels' career into the burial plot!" (I can't recall a better line Cole has had since) with Michaels kicking out and Taker with that demonic look and then the end with Taker showing such a rare moment of character humaness telling Shawn to stay down just to be slapped by a career-in-nutshell moment by Michaels only to get that sick jumping tombstone, but the rest to me just doesn't quite measure up to 25 even though I still loved it and enjoyed the central story of Taker's leg. Just there were some inconsistencies there, some parts were the same but executed not as well and two big things: 25 was pretty steadily average by the time HBK/Taker rolled around but 26 had more up/down with that rock solid for their time Punk/Rey sprint followed by one of the biggest downers imaginable with that horrid Mcmahon/Hart shit that seemed an eternity, the Divas battle royal too and right before Michaels/Taker, Cena and Batista had a good one. Crowd was tired when the main event rolled around which hurt the atmosphere and of course 26 A. we had to hear the in my unpopular opinion the quite annoying Matt Striker and B. NO JR. I always give HBK/Taker 26 ****1/2.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> It better be WM 17 or GTFO....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nop, I agree with you completely. I even rated 17 at five stars the first time I saw it. I'd rate those HBK & HHH matches like this: 26>25>28>27.




NastyYaffa said:


> Here is the Danielson matches that I have at 5-stars:
> 
> vs. Triple H (Wrestlemania 30).
> 
> And then there are matches like vs. Tyler Black (New Horizons), vs. Chris Hero (Guerre Sans Frontiéres).


You REALLY think that HHH's match is better than those two? I don't know, for me it was a very good match, I rated it at ****1/4, but those two... :trips5


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

Fighter Daron said:


> You REALLY think that HHH's match is better than those two? I don't know, for me it was a very good match, I rated it at ****1/4, but those two... :trips5


Yep, definitely. I love the HHH match. Love those Black & Hero matches too, though.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Bryan/HHH is **** for me. Best HHH match in a long long time, and MOTN of the show. Wouldn't put it as one of Bryan's best though, and I'm not even knowledgeable at all about Bryan's pre-WWE days.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

****1/2 for Bryan/HHH.

25>28>26>27. Big fan of all of them though.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Bryan/HHH is **** for me. Best HHH match in a long long time, and MOTN of the show. Wouldn't put it as one of Bryan's best though, and I'm not even knowledgeable at all about Bryan's pre-WWE days.


That's what I had it at when I watched it live, I added a 1/4* to it on rewatch because of Bryans selling, the diving tornado DDT spot the stupid camera man didn't even get properly, the tiger Suplex out of nowhere, and just all the other little stuff that made that match stand out. I said it was the best HHH match since 2008 at least, last match he had that was THAT good was probably the Hardy match at No Mercy 2008. It's probably the best HHH performance since like 2005. He was really, really, good. If he had been GREAT it would have taken that match up a notch, he needed to be more sadistic and monstrous in his character work, the workover he did on Bryan was top notch I just wanted more emotion and shit talking from him. Although Steph did contribute in that department.

I'll be honest, Ill probably never rewatch either of those Taker/HBK WM matches again. They just don't do anything for me anymore. 3 years ago I thought they were two of the greatest matches ever, and WM 25 is still one of the best if I'm tryong to be objective but that doesn't mean I have to LIKE it. I am just so over and done with the false finish/finisher kick out/hammy over acting (on Shawns part) that is being done in all these WWE matches these days that I can't even appreciate the matches that originally started that whole deal. It worked at WM 25 and WM 26 because it was Shawn Michaels in his last hurrah, Undertaker in a Streak match, 2 guys with 20+ years a piece in the WWE alone throwing everything they had at each other. I just don't want to see it anymore. It's been cheapened so much that it's hard to enjoy them like I did the first time I saw them.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

You could probably say that the Shawn/Undertaker series had a pretty bad impact on wrestling as a whole because it set a new standard for matches where a million finishers get kicked out of. They're still great matches but I don't think they had a positive effect on wrestling long-term.


And what amazes me so much when watching Bryan/Triple H from WM 30 is that Triple H was a face for so long before getting in the ring with Bryan. It's shocking how much better he works as a heel than a face.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I could re-watch both Taker/HHHs but I don't care to see WM28 again. WM27 I really liked at the time and the backlash against it makes me interested to watch it again.

Y'all know my thoughts on WM26 at this point, probably. I think I've seen it four times and every time I'm like "It's pretty damn good." It'll definitely fall out of my top 25 on the List That Will Never End (after checking it's at 24 right now), but that list could wind up being 50 matches long. I do think it's a good match but honestly hope I never have to watch it again.

WM25 I've always thought was excellent. Not a best ever, and shit I wasn't even going to put it on the 2000s list I never finished, but it does feel like something pretty special. Which is what WWE usually aims for and fails to reach.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

HHH/Bryan is **** for me as well. I'm on-board with it being HHH's best match since '08, but I'm less enamored of its place in Bryan's overall career. It's probably one of his best WWE matches, but he's got some ROH title defenses that would be considered middling by the standards of that reign that are just as good or a little better.

On the rec from @The Rabid Wolverine, I checked out the Benoit/Orton US title match from 1/13/06. Pretty good stuff. I'd agree it's better than the SS04 match, though perhaps not quite as good for me as the rematch the next night on Raw. Checking out the no DQ match from the following week now.



Yeah1993 said:


> Guys, because I forget - if you have a match you want me to upload that I might have, post it to my wall so I'll at least have a reminder in place. I'm positive a few people wanted some things and I'm positive I was already reminded. So, throwing that out there. This goes for whoever hasn't already asked, as well. I'd probably decline if it's an hour long match or something but yeah.


Not sure if you're still interested in doing this, but if you have either of the Shield/Wyatts TV matches from last year, I could use them. Thanks!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

POST IT ON MY WALL SO I DON'T FORGET~~~

But no, sorry, don't have them. I haven't even seen those. 

[hide]semi-related note: did goodhelmet not make a 2014 MOTYC? I love those sets and was saddened when he skipped 2012.[/hide]


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Oh well... Thanks anyway.

If anybody else has them, feel free to post them. Been looking for a while.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Well I found this one. 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1tce4f_raw-5-5-2014-shield-vs-wyatt-family_sport

3/3 everybody seems to have just pretended to upload then when you click on the link it's a match in WWE 2K14 :lmao


----------



## lemo (Jan 1, 2006)

Been a wrestling fan since 1987 & i thought about sharing my thoughts regarding random & different topics:

* I'm not sure how many people here had the chance to witness Jack Brisco work but he is one of the greatest pro wrestling in history. His technical wrestling skills are off the chart & he was so smooth & crisp in the ring. I highly recommend checking his epic battle with Dory Funk JR in Japan that went to 60 minutes in a 2 out 3 falls.

* Harly Race in the 70's was the definition of a true wrestler. What a champion that it is impossible to see him in a bad match. I remember him carrying a jobber named Omar Atlas to a damn good match. Harly was innovator as well & ahead of his time. There is no one with a more bad ass look than him. 

* Despite the big praise for Bret Hart world wide, still he is still underrated !!!! His ability to have variety style of matches with big many & different opponents is bar to none. He was absolutely phenomenal in the ring.

* Dynamite Kid in Japan in the early 80's was a miracle. A brilliant worker that was ahead of his time. Dynamite was a true innovator and revolutionised the in ring performance. Do your self a favour and watch his matches against Fujinami, Cobra, Koboyashi & Tiger Mask. 

* Generation of Cesaro, Sami Zayn, Daniel Bryan & CM Punk is better than generation of Rock, Steve Austin, HHH & Kurt Angle.

* Jushin Thunder Liger is the greatest Japanese wrestler of all time. What's amazing you may watch 100 Liger's matches on a row & non of them will have the same finish.

* NXT era is 1000 mile better than attitude era. 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*THE SHIELD VS THE WYATTS*

The Shield vs The Wyatt Family - Six-Man Tag Team Match - Elimination Chamber 2014

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k1Cc2K344NPZZlbOlfI

The Wyatt Family vs The Shield - Raw 3.3.14

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k6EVOLNmNGIaUgbOkUU

The Shield vs The Wyatt Family - Main Event 8.4.14

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k5EYbiyWZmLut9bOl9V

The Wyatt Family vs The Shield - Raw 5.5.14

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k48wWva92bpLeebOkZR

Some are still encoding but shouldn't be too long .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

(Y) Respect Cal. I was going to upload them one day lol.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

in a weird mood

been listening to sheamus' new heel theme (i dig it), @Sheamus_ROCKS or others tell me a couple of sheamus gems to check out 
@Jack Thwagger throw in a couple of swagger matches  i actually dont mind him, think hes good in ring

also random question when was the miz vs lawler match. actually like that match


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Swagger vs. Matt Hardy ECW 1/19/09
Swagger vs. Christian ECW 2/24/09
Swagger vs. Rey Mysterio MITB 2010
Swagger vs. Samy Zayn - NXT 2013

Swagger's best 4 matches, I'd say 
@KENNY


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

think ill do it in this order: rey, sami zayn, matt hardy, christian  thank you 






how bad really was hhh/steiner? i dont know if i should put myself through it :lmao

wouldnt mind seeing him beat up bagwell :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Two injured wrestlers trying to have a wrestling match......involving suplex's.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KENNY said:


> in a weird mood
> 
> been listening to sheamus' new heel theme (i dig it), @Sheamus_ROCKS or others tell me a couple of sheamus gems to check out
> @Jack Thwagger throw in a couple of swagger matches  i actually dont mind him, think hes good in ring
> ...


Always thought this was a really nice gem from Main Event. There's a watermark in the middle of the screen at times, but it's not that bad.






Also make sure you watch the Flag match between Rusev & Swagger from Summerslam last year. Really really liked that one.

Miz vs. Lawler was from Elimination Chamber 2011 and they had a TLC match on RAW in December of 2010 if I'm not mistaken. Or somewhere around that time period.


----------



## ★Th0t Patr0L★ (Oct 22, 2013)

KENNY said:


> in a weird mood
> 
> been listening to sheamus' new heel theme (i dig it), @Sheamus_ROCKS or others tell me a couple of sheamus gems to check out
> @Jack Thwagger throw in a couple of swagger matches  i actually dont mind him, think hes good in ring
> ...


Hmm, Flux listed some very good ones, but here's a few more;











(you can easily find the full match of this on any streaming site, just not on youtube)

























And just for the hell of it;


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

That Swagger/Christian 2/24/09 match is far and away Swaggers best match and one of the 10 best television matches ever IMO. Swagger and Christian had excellent chemistry, their Backlash 09' match is worth the watch too.

Don't sleep on the Swagger/Sami Zayn match from NXT in 2013. I thought that ruled big time. 

Swagger/Rey MITB 2010 is awesome too.

It's a damn, damn shame WWE totally dropped the ball on the Swagger/Cesaro feud following the Real Americans split up. That should have been built up to the point where their first match was on PPV ending with a Cesaro count out victory, then maybe do 1 TV match in the month that follows with Swagger winning, another on the next PPV with a screw finish, then blow it off with Cesaro going over clean on Raw the following night. People would have enjoyed that feud, and it would have done a hell of a lot more for Cesaro than the pointless crap following WM 30.

I know @Jack Thwagger will smile at seeing this but I really feel like WWE totally screwed Jack over the 2 times he was set up perfectly to have a real feud/storyline that people would care about the past 2 years. First with the break up with the Real Americans they only have 1 or maybe 2 super short 5 minute matches on Smackdown instead of a real storyline, then with Rusev when people actually were starting to get behind Jack. I'm not saying these would have been star making rivalries or been big money draws, but people certainly would have been interested and enjoyed the matches and Colter promos. There is no reason at all for how they botched those two storylines, it's not like they had anything else better to fill 5 hours of TV a week with.

I also thought WWE should have put Swagger back in a tag team with Curtis Axel or something to start 2015, he's not doing anything else and it's not like they have a bunch of great teams right now or anything. I would have put Cesaro with Neville as a baby face team and called them "The European Union" or something, then you have Harper/Rowan as the heel team Reapers, the New Day as the heel team, and Swagger/Axel as "The True Americans" or something. That's 4 decent teams to have some fun with.


----------



## ★Th0t Patr0L★ (Oct 22, 2013)

@The Rabid Wolverine I prefer not to think of what could have been with Swagger anymore. The dude is fucking toast and imho fans has a lot to do with it. I'm still convinced the RAs disbandment and how it was handled has a lot to do with fans sucking up to Cesaro and treating Swagger like shit (I mean, seriously, people deluded themselves into think Cesaro was going to feud with Brock AFTER he beat the Streak...they were even so up on him they failed to realize he was still heel despite acting like more of one than Swagger).

It's good to reflect on his good matches and it's nice seeing people give Swagger credit where it's due and finally realizing how much WWE screwed him over, but bottom line is he doesn't bitch, doesn't have any weight with creative, and he might as well retire. It's sad and it sucks, but it's the truth. I'm sure after they have him do the Special Olympics thing, he'll be released. I'm betting August at the earliest, early October at the latest.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

@Big Cal's World, it's not letting me rep you, so please accept some honorary rep for those Shield/Wyatts matches. Many thanks.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cesaro & Neville actually teamed this weekend at a house show to face the New Day, which is ironic since you mentioned that. They'd probably gel really well as a team I feel like, but I still think they should put Cesaro & Swagger back together. I bet they'd get a huge pop.

Half the time I forget Swagger is even on the roster. Poor guy.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

I'd love to see Cesaro and Swagger reunite as a duo, with the focus this time on their mutual athletic pedigree rather than Cesaro ditching his "Very European" stuff in favor of being a Tea Party goon.

I'd love to see Cesaro and Neville as a "complementary" team almost in the British Bulldogs vein, where you've got the impossibly athletic high-flyer who's also really strong, and the freakish powerhouse who's also really athletic.

I'd love to see Cesaro and Kidd pick up right where they left off when Kidd comes back.

Basically, I just want to see Cesaro as half of a top tag team, because I sadly know he has no meaningful future as a single.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I've just always thought that Cesaro and Neville would make a damn near perfect tag team. Especially if they got a good manager, although I'm not sure who that could be....maybe Nigel McGuinness 

They'd complement each other perfectly, the only issue is that WWE tag team scene is a joke so it would be a total waste of their talents. However, if they had teamed them up in 2013 and let the, square off with the Shield, Rhodes Bros, Wyatt Family...damn. I miss the old Rhodes Bros where it was Cody and Goldust, that team was freaking awesome they meshed so well it sucks what has happened to them since then.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It pains me to say this, but Mark Henry is terrible now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Interested that Cesaro was the topic atm. Came in here to say his match on Superstars vs Harper was 6 minutes of why I wanted him to be a babyface for a long time now. Dude just unleashes so much more that the WWE audience really hasn't seen from em. Fun sprint. A touch clunky in 1-2 minor sequences, but it worked out. Need to see the rematch from Main Event the next night. Didn't even know it happened until about 15 minutes ago. Cesaro finally back in singles stuff. It only took a guy to get his neck broke. Literally. That's WWE for ya, sometimes.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> It pains me to say this, but Mark Henry is terrible now.


Was just thinking almost the same thing. He's been really horrible this year.  I actually don't even know what his purpose of being on TV is anymore.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

All I count is a bad showing in the Chamber. But about 4 others had the same issue. Henry vs Reigns was good & last week vs Ryback was p. fun, even w/the commercial rape.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm sure Henry can still work, but whenever I see him on TV, I just know it's about to be pointless and his face/heel work changes by the week.  Don't even remember Reigns/Henry honestly. Is that when he returned and called him out before getting speared and then he was his tag team partner the next week or something?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The night where Reigns had to work three matches to save his MITB spot a few weeks ago. Henry was the 2nd match.

The alignment changes are bad. I'm w/ya there. But basically he's just in that role of giving us some minor stuff before he's completely on his way out.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Oh ok yeah, I recall that now. Just remember Reigns being worn down for several minutes and then winning. Idk.

First hour of RAW has been fucking horrible, but now we've got something good!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sounds like the bread and butter of a classic babyface TV match. NWA/WCW may have been big on it. :evil


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cena & Cesaro with another TV MOTYC. This is crazy!


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Cena: pretty good -nice matches vs Zack Ryder of all people, Neville, Zayn, Ambrose, Barrett,Stardust. Gonna rewatch Cesaro to focus with the mute button because literally Michael Cole's shouting at an annoying level and his call distracted me a lot (and I'm softer on Cole than 90 percent of this place but I call it like I see it no pun intended)
Great match vs Owens I, topped it with what I have is a fantastic ****1/4 in the sequel (my pure MOTY) and though a third wheel took part in what I have had the most fun I've had watching this year at RR

Rollins: alot of what Rollins has done bleeds together in my mind as just decent since it seems like he has done the dance with either Ambrose, Reigns or Ziggler for eternity, but of what sticks out a solid match vs Orton at WM, the star of the RR match, took part in what I have at ****, solid match vs Neville I recall. 

Gotta give the nod to Cena for main roster WOTY thus far. He is forging a solid year and nobody else but these two I recall having even decent ring years on the main roster sadly. Sheamus has been hit or miss, Harper is being criminally underutilized, Orton has been in and out, Ambrose isn't having the year he had in 2014, Cesaro had a good niche with Kidd but now that Kidd is hurt Cesaro's year is even more shaky, as high as I am on Rusev it just hasn't clicked for him match wise imo. post Swagger (really weird because atribute wise I think he could be scary good down the line), Ziggler is so same ol same ol unless he is in the ring with someone like Bryan, Barrett has been hit with bad match structures to work within. Hell, I think if Cena slows down Owens might just take the SOB.

This is no 2013.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

WWE main roster WOTY for me right now is Rollins, Cena, then Neville. Cena probably gets the nod if you're looking just at singles but Rollins has been in SO many good tag matches all year long. Neville is #3 for me because he seems to make the most out of every opportunity he gets. A slew of good TV matches with a bunch of guys.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

so is raw worth watching?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KENNY said:


> so is raw worth watching?


The first hour is completely awful, then you need to see Cena vs. Cesaro. The rest of the show is honestly watchable, but nothing to go out of your way to see. Solid 8-man tag and Sheamus/Neville. Main event was decent enough I guess.

They were REALLY heavy on the wrestling tonight.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

These Henning/Rose matches are fun as hell and solid on both a storytelling side/old school black/white heel face, solid on selling and tremendous in feeding off a crowd/doing what is needed for the reaction:






































A solid tag match too:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Did those matches happen in Portland? I've been meaning to check out that territory, especially after the disappointment that was Memphis.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Yeah, that's Portland.



Repped Brock a link to the match that I got my sig from, but I thought a couple people here may appreciate it ([USER]Yeah1993[/USER]). Masakre vs Pirata Morgan in 1992.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

squealed like a high school girl when I saw that. Jesus Christ @ how much blood Morgan is spitting out there.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks Rah (Y). I was hoping that'll be on the Yearbook, but alas it isn't so ill have to grab that video off YT.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

It's off of Lynch's stuff, sadly. I should stop being a hobo and get onto buying some of his wares.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

KENNY said:


> so is raw worth watching?


The main event was surprisingly fun as hell, and Cena vs. Cesaro and Neville vs. Sheamus were both good.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So ever since my trip to Ohio, I've been kind of obsessing about traveling everywhere and seeing as many wrestling shows as I can. Makes me wanna ask the question, what kind of experiences have you guys had at wrestling shows? I'd make a thread, but I don't give a shit about any other posters in the general WWE section.  This post is gonna be a lot of words so I apologize, but I wanna hear about what you guys have seen! My history:

*WWE Smackdown House Show - Frederick, MD - July 5, 2003
*My first ever major wrestling event, at age 11. I really don't remember much from this other than some still images in my head and how cool it was to see Ultimo Dragon wrestle in person after watching him in WCW as I grew up. The whole show was pretty much filled with midcarders, but I did get to see a bikini contest between Sable, Dawn Marie, and Nidia. I bet if I was 5 years older I would've REALLY liked that. :lol Biggest thing that sticks in my head is when my dad yelled "Smackdown numba one announca!" at Funaki and he turned back and gave the thumbs up in approval. That was awesome. Main event was Benoit & Rhyno vs. Haas & Benjamin for the Tag Team Titles, which shows you there wasn't much top talent that night. Either way, I'm sure I loved it.

*WWE Smackdown House Show - Frederick, MD - September 3, 2005
*You look at this card on paper and it looks like it could've easily been a PPV that year. Benoit vs. Orlando Jordan for the U.S. Title, Regal & Burchill vs. the Mexicools, Booker T vs. Christian, MNM vs. LOD (Animal & Heidenreich) for the Tag Titles, Orton vs. Mysterio(!!!!), and Batista vs. JBL for the World Title. Muuuuuch better card than the '03 one. Took a lot of really good pictures that night. Got perfect shots of the doomsday device (that match was a slew of fun), flying headbutt, clothesline from hell, etc. Saw Mr. Kennedy hit the Green Bay Plunge and thought it was awesome, then Christian got bloody the hard way (we're in Maryland so that isn't allowed remember) and it was even more awesome, then I touched Booker T on his way to the back and marveled at how big of a man he was. I was the biggest Orton fan ever at this point and I did his pose ALL night. Mysterio impersonated it and I got a great picture. Missed the RKO because it came OUTTA NOWHERE. :lol Batista was super over since we were close to DC. Really good show that night.

*WWE Monday Night RAW - Charlottesville, VA - August 14, 2006
*First and only RAW up to this point in my life. Wasn't very much good wrestling on this night, but two things I'm able to say is that I've witnessed a title change and I've been in the same building as Hulk Hogan. Mickie James lost the Women's Title to Lita that night when she was SO close to her hometown of Richmond. Hey, I just looked up the results and Flar wrestled that night too! Totally forgot. If you remember the night where Orton brought out an impostor Hogan because he though the real one wasn't there, then the real Hogan actually showed up, this is the night. He had us all fooled and it was hilarious. Cool stuff! Lots of WOOing and bowing down took place that evening. :lol I also remember them constantly playing videos hyping up Jeff Hardy's return to the company in the coming weeks.

*TNA Live Event - Woodstock, VA - September 4, 2010
*This is still so surreal for me to think that this was only 30 minutes from my house, but it totally was! One hugely positive thing I can say about TNA is that there house shows are (or were) really fan friendly and well put together. Don West casually walked around and chatted with people and sold shit at great prices. There was a line where you could meet Kurt Angle for free because he was unable to wrestle on the night. This took place as part of a couny fair and the turnout was beyond what I expected for a small town in Northwest Virginia. Lost my voice that night from yelling but had so much fun. AJ Styles vs. Jeff Jarrett, Pope vs. Kazarian, Abyss vs. Rhyno (there's Rhyno again!), and Joe vs. Jeff Hardy in the main event. A fan recorded the main event. Let me share it with you and show you how INSANE the crowd was that night: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHdQmYW9haw

*TNA Live Event - Hagerstown, MD - January 16, 2011*
A present for my 19th birthday and a pretty cool one. Saw a fucking GREAT tag match between the Young Bucks & Motor City Machine Guns. Actually made a thread about this after it happened, so read up if you're interested: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/total...y-tna-live-experience-hagerstown-results.html

And of course as most of you know, I attended Payback this year and then the NXT live event in Cleveland a couple weeks ago. Both were great all around but the NXT show is arguably the coolest experience I've been a part of in my life. So much fun.

So you guys seen anything cool? Different? Interesting?

@The Rabid Wolverine, you went to a house show with Bryan vs. Wyatt in a Cage match, right? 
@Big Cal's World , didn't you say you went to an ECW show where they ran Christian vs. Regal or something? @Obfuscation , I know you went to Summerslam '13. You've been to a PWG show too right?


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

I'VE BEEN TO WRESTLEMANIA!!!!!! :grin2:

... XI. :serious: But the point is, I was there.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> @Big Cal's World , didn't you say you went to an ECW show where they ran Christian vs. Regal or something?


I was at the Raw, SD and ECW tapings in November 09 and got to see the awesome Christian Vs Regal match :mark:. Same night I got to see THE UNDERTAKER (for the first time ever), as WHC, in a match against Chris Jericho which happened to be their FIRST EVER ONE ON ONE MATCH. T'was a great night . Shame Raw the night before sucked :lmao. Except for the part where Ricky Hatton knocked out Chabo :lmao.

Also went to a Raw taping in 05, the week after Eddie's death (  ) and the week before Survivor Series. Saw Flair's arse. HBK Vs JBL. Shelton Vs Angle. Was mostly a fun night.

Been to a bunch of house shows over the years too, seeing the likes of Cena Vs Lesnar in 03, HHH Vs Orton in 04 (oh god :| ), and SHEAMUS VS BRYAN in 2012 :mark:.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Big Cal's World said:


> Are any of those Undertaker/Umaga matches from house shows available online? Not some big dream match or anything in my opinion but definitely something I’d like to see. Shame they never had a program on TV or anything.


I was reading your blog and came across that. Here ya go


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> @Obfuscation , I know you went to Summerslam '13. You've been to a PWG show too right?


Aye. 

Threemendous, All Star Weekend V Night 1 & 2, 1.21 Gigawatts, & Life During Wartime.

El Generico on every show. :mark:

First time I ever saw PAC wrestle was live via the ASW events. Basically made sure I had to be a fan from that point on. vs Generico was an insane experience, then vs Hayashi was ended up being the best match of the weekend. Did the story about Ronin breaking the top rope via being FAT ever leak out, hence why the impromptu Steen vs Joey match started the show? I've wondered that considering PWG doesn't have entrances shown. :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rah said:


> I was reading your blog and came across that. Here ya go


Delightful . Don't think I ever got around to watching this, mainly cos when I've come across it in the past it's been split into like 8 3 minute parts because, I dunno, people are cunts.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Obfuscation said:


> Aye.
> 
> Threemendous, All Star Weekend V Night 1 & 2, 1.21 Gigawatts, & Life During Wartime.
> 
> ...



You motherfucker. You saw Low-Ki/Joe live??:bully4

So that's, what, 8 years since you last went? Surprised by that, considering how much of a PWG fan you were up until a couple years ago. I know Cali's a big state, but no plans on seeing Bucks/SSB? Generico/Claudio? 2011/2012 seemed like a must-do for any wrestling fan in the area.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i fuckin love sheamus's new t heme 

pls tell me the best sheaumus matches ..i was tempted to watch vs HHH :lol i know he had a stellar match vs morrison but i forget when


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

w/ Edge vs. John Cena and Evan Bourne Raw 5/31/10
vs. Morrison @ TLC 2010
vs. Bryan @ Extreme Rules 2012
vs. Bryan Dublin Street Fight Raw 2012
vs. Big Show @ HIAC 2012
w/ Christian vs. Cesaro and Swagger Raw 2/10/14
vs. Cesaro @ NOC 2014
@KENNY


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Flux said:


> w/ Edge vs. John Cena and Evan Bourne Raw 5/31/10
> vs. Morrison @ TLC 2010
> vs. Bryan @ Extreme Rules 2012
> vs. Bryan Dublin Street Fight Raw 2012
> ...


much love thank you


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I miss the old Rhodes Bros where it was Cody and Goldust, that team was freaking awesome they meshed so well it sucks what has happened to them since then.


God yes. They were so hot when they won the titles off of The Shield, they should have never broken up and Cody should have never become fucking Stardust. What the fuck was that gimmick ever going to accomplish? WWE's policy of breaking up every tag team is also mind-boggling.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> You motherfucker. You saw Low-Ki/Joe live??:bully4
> 
> So that's, what, 8 years since you last went? Surprised by that, considering how much of a PWG fan you were up until a couple years ago. I know Cali's a big state, but no plans on seeing Bucks/SSB? Generico/Claudio? 2011/2012 seemed like a must-do for any wrestling fan in the area.


Best part too was immeditely after Generico went backstage following the championship match a massive JOE VS KI chant started that proved to make the entire scenario palpable. As Gene Okerlund once said _(among many, many, many others..)_ the anticipation was so thick, you could cut it....w/a knife. I picked up the piece of guard rail that Joe kicked off doing the ole kicks to Ki on the outside. Memories. I got a decent amount of stories just from the 5 shows I've attended. Never thought I'd have a conversation w/Kikutaro while waiting for the show to begin.

Transportation on my end has always been bunk. That's the real killer. Of course now where I'm living I'm MUCH closer to Reseda. It's still a bit of a drive, but not nearly the journey it would have been from where I lived since 2001 - 2012. So basically their glory years passed me by w/o a chance scenario to attend. Honestly, if I lived closer, I'd probably been to plenty more. Never had an issue waiting in line for a long time. _(always had to get there early just to make sure)_ Wonder what the ticket situation is like now that it isn't first come, first service. Can show up 5 minutes before "official bell time" - b/c they ALWAYS start late - and still get the seats you want w/o care b/c they sell a touch more formal now. Sucks on the idea of having to jump on it immediately b/c so many want to attend now, but it's good in the sense that there doesn't have to be a rush to make it before someone else does just to pop a squat against wall for a hour or two.

Nothing hurts more than almost attending the show Hayley Williams was actually at. Like, I can't even fathom that scenario. Waiting in line, sitting on the ground eating my Jack in the Box and then I see her. This was probably for the best.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KENNY said:


> much love thank you


I uploaded the Bryan/Sheamus street fight some time ago if you need it:

*Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus (Street Fight - Raw 07.30.2012)*

x2179di


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KENNY said:


> i fuckin love sheamus's new t heme
> 
> pls tell me the best sheaumus matches ..i was tempted to watch vs HHH :lol i know he had a stellar match vs morrison but i forget when





Flux said:


> w/ Edge vs. John Cena and Evan Bourne Raw 5/31/10
> vs. Morrison @ TLC 2010
> vs. Bryan @ Extreme Rules 2012
> vs. Bryan Dublin Street Fight Raw 2012
> ...


Addendum: 

vs Luke Harper - NXT: 7/24/13
vs Mark Henry - SummerSlam 2011
vs Titus O'Neil - Main Event: 4/22/14
vs John Morrison - Survivor Series 2010
vs Big Show - Lumberjack Match RAW: Christmas 2012
vs Alberto Del Rio - Night of Champions 2012 & RAW: 7/22/13
vs Jack Swagger - Main Event: 7/24/13
vs Goldust - No DQ Match ECW: 9/1/09
vs Tensai - Smackdown: 8/3/12
vs CM Punk - Main Event: 10/3/12

I guess neither of us listed vs Danielson 2/3 falls b/c we expect it is a given that Kenny has seen it, yes? :evil


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I did list it :bryan


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

It's a damn shame that Taker/Umaga never happened on TV. It's actually a damn shame with Umaga in general. So many different dream matches.



Big Cal's World said:


> I was at the Raw, SD and ECW tapings in November 09 and got to see the awesome Christian Vs Regal match :mark:. Same night I got to see THE UNDERTAKER (for the first time ever), as WHC, in a match against Chris Jericho which happened to be their FIRST EVER ONE ON ONE MATCH. T'was a great night . Shame Raw the night before sucked :lmao. Except for the part where Ricky Hatton knocked out Chabo :lmao.


Taker and Jericho never had another singles match, did they? Yeah that's pretty damn cool that you were there for the first (and I think only) one. 



Obfuscation said:


> Best part too was immeditely after Generico went backstage following the championship match a massive JOE VS KI chant started that proved to make the entire scenario palpable. As Gene Okerlund once said _(among many, many, many others..)_ the anticipation was so thick, you could cut it....w/a knife. I picked up the piece of guard rail that Joe kicked off doing the ole kicks to Ki on the outside. Memories. I got a decent amount of stories just from the 5 shows I've attended. Never thought I'd have a conversation w/Kikutaro while waiting for the show to begin.


See, that's the type of stories I'm talkin about! Wrestling events are awesome.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah they had another on SD a few months later.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Only ever been to one house show. Wrestlemania Revenge Tour 2003.

Rey Mysterio V Matt Hardy for the Cruiserweight title opened, Matt retained but Rey stole the title after the match.

Rhyno V A Train happened, Rhyno got legit injured, that's all I can remember.

TWGTT beat Rikishi and Tajiri for the tag titles, Hass took the stinkface and I met him after the show, all I can remember about that :lol

Brock beat Big Show in the main event, went nuts when he F5d him

Was at an ICW show a few months ago, that was an experience :lol


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> So ever since my trip to Ohio, I've been kind of obsessing about traveling everywhere and seeing as many wrestling shows as I can. Makes me wanna ask the question, what kind of experiences have you guys had at wrestling shows? I'd make a thread, but I don't give a shit about any other posters in the general WWE section.  This post is gonna be a lot of words so I apologize, but I wanna hear about what you guys have seen! My history:
> 
> *WWE Smackdown House Show - Frederick, MD - July 5, 2003
> *My first ever major wrestling event, at age 11. I really don't remember much from this other than some still images in my head and how cool it was to see Ultimo Dragon wrestle in person after watching him in WCW as I grew up. The whole show was pretty much filled with midcarders, but I did get to see a bikini contest between Sable, Dawn Marie, and Nidia. I bet if I was 5 years older I would've REALLY liked that. :lol Biggest thing that sticks in my head is when my dad yelled "Smackdown numba one announca!" at Funaki and he turned back and gave the thumbs up in approval. That was awesome. Main event was Benoit & Rhyno vs. Haas & Benjamin for the Tag Team Titles, which shows you there wasn't much top talent that night. Either way, I'm sure I loved it.
> ...


Yep, it was at the Patriot Center in Fairfax, VA. Along with that I went to a Smackdown taping last year at the Verizon Center along with another one in 2006. I went to WrestleMania 14 in Boston, I've been to 2 Raw's: 1 in 2001 and another in 2004, and I think that's it.

The Bryan/Bray cage match rocked, it wasn't an all time classic or anything but it was a really, really good match. I'd say it was PPV quality but that really doesn't mean much these days when you see the kind of matches that generally make ppvs :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Flux said:


> I did list it :bryan


This implies I shouldn't look at lists when it is 5 AM. 8*D



Jack Evans 187 said:


> See, that's the type of stories I'm talkin about! Wrestling events are awesome.


I need to go to another show. idc what it is. I just want to see some rasslin live. Love to see WWE again.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> The Bryan/Bray cage match rocked, it wasn't an all time classic or anything but it was a really, really good match. I'd say it was PPV quality but that really doesn't mean much these days when you see the kind of matches that generally make ppvs :lol


The whole idea of PPV quality matches never made sense to me. More often than not, PPV matches aren't really that much different from their television counterparts. Maybe it was true in the days of the one-hour RAW and the four PPVs a year system, but honestly I enjoy watching hidden tv gems over PPV bouts.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Yep, it was at the Patriot Center in Fairfax, VA. Along with that I went to a Smackdown taping last year at the Verizon Center along with another one in 2006. I went to WrestleMania 14 in Boston, I've been to 2 Raw's: 1 in 2001 and another in 2004, and I think that's it.
> 
> The Bryan/Bray cage match rocked, it wasn't an all time classic or anything but it was a really, really good match. I'd say it was PPV quality but that really doesn't mean much these days when you see the kind of matches that generally make ppvs :lol


Lemme ask, how was the venue at GMU for the show? I'm only an hour away in Winchester and I saw that they're running there again in early September, but when I've looked up live event cards in Fairfax they've been pretty lackluster. Thinkin about driving down to Hampton instead the Friday before.



Obfuscation said:


> I need to go to another show. idc what it is. I just want to see some rasslin live. Love to see WWE again.


Don't know where you're at in California, but they've got shows through the whole state from July 24th - August 4th. (Y) Jericho & Owens are booked for a portion of them as well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The main goal atm is Hell in a Cell come October to fill out the yearly Staples Center PPV tradition. Now that SummerSlam got robbed and placed in New York this year b/c WM was already set for California. (bastards) Now I really doubt this will happen, but it's something on my mind.

Regardless of low quality for years and years now, I would like to see a HIAC match in person. Just to see the structure, basically.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

so i watched these last night

sheamus vs ziggler vs del rio - main event 2014
sheamus vs morrison - TLC 2010 ( :mark: )
dunno why but i watched orton vs miz from the same ppv 
Sheamus and Dolph Ziggler vs Cesaro and The Miz - september 1 raw 2014
sheamus vs cena (TLC 2009)
sheamus Vs. Christian (Raw; March 10, 2014)
sheamus vs ziggler (no way out 2012)

still want to see his matches vs henry, that stellar one vgs bryan (extreme rules?), 

while im here, opened wwe network and popped up the bash 2009. thoughts? i havent seen it, actually havent seen any of the punk/hardy matches. orton vs hhh in 3 stages of hell ...should i be worried


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bash has Jericho/Rey and that's the most important thing.


----------



## Fighter Daron (Jul 14, 2011)

KENNY said:


> while im here, opened wwe network and popped up the bash 2009. thoughts? i havent seen it, actually havent seen any of the punk/hardy matches. orton vs hhh in 3 stages of hell ...should i be worried


When the Hardy/Punk is over, close the video player, because everything that follows it's just shit. Until that match, real good PPV.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The whole idea of PPV quality matches never made sense to me. More often than not, PPV matches aren't really that much different from their television counterparts. Maybe it was true in the days of the one-hour RAW and the four PPVs a year system, but honestly I enjoy watching hidden tv gems over PPV bouts.


I think describing a TV match as "PPV Quality" has more to do with the performers involved, their history together, the stakes of the match, and the amount of time given.

For instance, in the rare occasions where two top tier, main event caliber wrestlers face off in a singles match for the WWE title, and they have never faced each other in those circumstances before, it does have a certain quality to it that you don't see in other TV matches, regardless of the caliber of performers involved.

For instance, in 2001 when Austin faced off with Benoit on Raw and Smackdown for the WWE title and they went 20+ minutes and had those classics, it would be apropos to describe that as a PPV quality match. Austin and Benoit had only faced off maybe once or twice in really short affairs almost a year prior, this time they had an actual feud running, it was for the WWE title, they hadn't met on PPV before hand, and they got a time allotment usually only seen in PPV matches.

Same deal with Brock vs Benoit on Smackdown in 2003 or Angle vs Taker on Smackdown in 03'. They just felt different.

That's sort of how Bryan/Bray felt, though it clearly wasn't on the same level. I attended expecting a run of the mill house show match where there is lots of stalling/down time, guys aren't going full bore, and it feels like there is no real consequences to the match you are watching. It wasn't like that with the Bryan/Bray cage match at all, Bryan was flying all over the fucking place laying in stiff shots whenever he got the chance and Bray for the most part worked his ass off too and stayed serious the entire time. No one came off the top of the cage or anything but there were a few big bumps/spots including Bray doing that half way Rock Bottom thing to Bryan and driving him right into the turnbuckle.




Jack Evans 187 said:


> Lemme ask, how was the venue at GMU for the show? I'm only an hour away in Winchester and I saw that they're running there again in early September, but when I've looked up live event cards in Fairfax they've been pretty lackluster. Thinkin about driving down to Hampton instead the Friday before.
> 
> 
> Don't know where you're at in California, but they've got shows through the whole state from July 24th - August 4th. (Y) Jericho & Owens are booked for a portion of them as well.


It's nothing special dude. It's not a dump or anything like that but it's nothing to write home about, either. It's strangely right across the street from my grandparents house so I just walked right over from there. If you do end up deciding to go to an event there let me know and I'll get tickets and meet you over there. My girlfriend is a saint but she has finally reached her breaking point when it comes to me dragging her to wrestling and sporting events so I haven't been going as often cause going all by yourself sucks.



Fighter Daron said:


> When the Hardy/Punk is over, close the video player, because everything that follows it's just shit. Until that match, real good PPV.



Consign this. I left it on after watching Punk/Hardy thinking maybe Trips/Orton wouldn't be so bad. Dead wrong, it was dreadful, don't waste your time.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cesaro vs. Harper from Superstars was awesome. Packed so much action into a short period of time. Really impressive. (Y)

That Cesaro guy is pretty good, huh?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> That Cesaro guy is pretty good, huh?


4/10


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Cesaro vs. Harper from Superstars was awesome. Packed so much action into a short period of time. Really impressive. (Y)
> 
> That Cesaro guy is pretty good, huh?





Srdjan99 said:


> 4/10


4/10, elbows are too pointy, would not push.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Lemme ask, how was the venue at GMU for the show? I'm only an hour away in Winchester and I saw that they're running there again in early September, but when I've looked up live event cards in Fairfax they've been pretty lackluster. Thinkin about driving down to Hampton instead the Friday before.
> 
> 
> Don't know where you're at in California, but they've got shows through the whole state from July 24th - August 4th. (Y) Jericho & Owens are booked for a portion of them as well.


This reminds me for some random reason that for anyone who responded with hope to "in my area, Randy Orton vs Bray Wyatt is being advertised on the Summerslam tour", that card has unfortunately been changed to another round of Reigns/Wyatt. 

Throwing my name in the hat of the event discussion: used to be horrible promotion of events to the point that something would happen and you'd be like "well shoot that would've been nice to know about before it happened", but alas, the main promotional efforts go towards musical acts here. That said, this area for years was a hotbed for little indy promotions/promotions looking to rise, so I've seen countless of those shows. In terms of the notability, I've been to one ppv, 2 tv SDs(one outside of seeing Finlay sucked while the other is actually quite notable for being Khali's debut and an acclaimed Mysterio/Orton title defense while seeing Taker live :mark. Numerous TNA events. 

In terms of Indies over the years: again, I cannot count them: but some notable stuff I remember: when Harley Race's Wrestling Academy was starting to roll, I remember Harley made an appearance and did a segment with a guy. Shows with a young CM Punk went my way multiple times: two I remember a young and green CM Punk taking on an also young but at the time seemingly less green Brian Kendrick (I remember Punk actually did that crooked moonsault haha) as well as a by then notable CM Punk defending the ROH belt. At a carnival a few years ago: I stumbled upon a show and saw an absolutely atrocious match with I think Ian Rotten (certainly one of the Rotten brothers and since Axl is in a wheelchair and this was only a few years ago I assume Ian) at a very low quality indy. All the little indies I have seen and that is the worst I recall seeing in person.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

In regards to Orton vs. Wyatt, they actually ran that match at a house show in Toronto earlier this year. I posted something about it when it happened, but I don't think anyone noticed.  That's essentially why I like the idea of going to a house show rather than tv. Ambrose vs. Rollins in a Steel Cage match, Cesaro vs. Finn Balor, Itami vs. Tyson Kidd, etc. So many matches that we never know if will ever be seen by the general public.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

What's happening here? Haven't posted in a few months so I just wanted to drop by for a quick one. 

For anyone that followed my Attitude Era watching, I just got done with 2001 which has some damn good matches on TV and PPV but was overall nowhere near as fun to watch as 2000. Heel Austin provided weekly entertainment, though.

I left right before WM31 took place and like most, I was extremely pessimistic and fully expected a disaster but in the end it was a pleasant surprise, specially Brock vs Reigns which turned out to be MOTN, thanks in no small part to the surprise ending. But safe to say that the product is in the most pitiful state I've seen it ever be, on par with 2012 and 2014 post-Extreme Rules. Only read results online and half-watched the PPVs, at least 2012 and 14 had a good first 3-4 months, 2015 has been BAD from the get go with only WM31 as the exception.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eh, 2015 isn't _so_ bad. Just prune out the good stuff and it's no different than 2013. Or flip the months around w/2014 (early bad; middle better). WWE's only consistent problem from my end are their PPVs being poor. Not a single event all year has been good. WM was passable only for about two things and did have their MOTY on it. 

Already helps that something like Cena vs Owens has done more for me than what 2014 did following WM 30, minus anything relating to Sami Zayn. And obviously, Reigns being like my favorite guy in wrestling currently.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

2015 is suffering from itself, sadly. The over-arcing feel of the booking has killed a lot of interest in the product, which is a shame, considering how frequently good TV matches are produced these days. I'm one of those fans but I occasionally dabble in the odd Main Event/Superstars and I'm really impressed with the body of work the guys are putting in. Shitty, short matches but the work within those few minutes is stellar. That isn't too say there's a bunch of gold that people are missing out on, like we were in 2013, but there's one or two every other week. Reigns is killing it. Sasha Banks is killing it. Cesaro is killing it. Cena is killing it. Owens is straight up murdering it. Brock's back. Lots to look forward to, and a lot to enjoy from the past few months. 2013/2014 had so, so many great matches but this year has had some damn fantastic ones. Reigns/Brock + Sasha/Becky = :cesaro



Also











Mitigated by good news:






Gonna get to this after I'm done with some mid-90s Rey Mysterio viewing. I almost don't quite understand why Dragon Gate is a thing, when so few people go back and watch his (and others) work in Mexico. Nutty as fuck spots? Check. Structured match? Check. Spots that require the opponent to awkwardly set themselves up for? Nope. Probably a blind appraisal here, but is there a guy in the entirety of wrestling that's better than Rey at moving their opponent into position for a spot?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm on the same side of the coin as C2D. I've seen pretty much absolutely nothing since Raw after Mania. Not even NXT I've been keeping up with. I've heard Owens and Cena had some good ones, and Sasha/Becky is the best women's match ever in the WWE and one of the best in American history, but nothing else. Part of me doesn't feel like coming up to speed either (because my passion for wrestling is kinda hibernated for a TBD date), but if I do, what else of good has happened this year? I think Ambrose and Rollins Main Evented some PPV's, ain't that right? :mark:


----------



## -Skullbone- (Sep 20, 2006)

I saw the Reigns/Brock mentioned and I thought I'd throw my hat into the ring. 

I can't say I was enamored with it truthfully. It was still engaging to say the least, however. Usually Brock matches bring a uniqueness to them due to him being the human equivalent of a wrecking ball. People get on his case because he's not a big workrate guy, but the guy is such a force that he gets away with simply tossing his hapless victims from one side of the ring to the other. This is because he is rarely challenged physically. 

In this particular case though, people were more interested in seeing how Reigns would be used against him. He's built like a shit brickhouse too and the uniqueness for both marks and smarks alike was how he'd be booked against someone relatively similar in a physical sense. The uniqueness was the anticipation of either Reigns establishing himself as the guy to follow from now on, or if the company's new golden boy will get the arse kicking some thought he deserved (weird, but a lot of people seemed offended by Reigns' position).

I thought what went on in between the ropes wasn't anything particularly remarkable. I didn't like seeing Reigns smile like a goof and not mouth off. The guy's a badarse and he has attitude, but casually grinning after being pounded into the mat isn't something that reflected his strengths. Flair's someone who's great at trash talking when being swamped and I don't know why someone built like Reigns couldn't channel that sort of energy. The ending stretch was good and the outcome probably saved the outcome from an unsavory reaction from two different audiences. 

I think Brock's game is slightly starting to wear thin with many. This face turn should bring about a new dynamism to his work and he, in all likelihood, has two new opponents that will bring a fresher perspective to his matches. You don't have to be a blind man to see how the Rollins match will transpire, but that guy's also a workhorse and you'll likely see a couple of memorable sequences taking place if they go over it beforehand. And even if I don't think the guy's a bona fide star, I'm looking forward to seeing what will happen with a Sheamus match up if they were to square off. I think this could be a chance to have two ultra physical guys go at it without genuine fear from management over the outcome. Brock has somewhat had to be curtailed to a degree in a few of his bouts (Taker comes to mind immediately). Sheamus is someone who likes dishing it out and receiving it, and I don't think the guys out back are worried that much if these two let it hang out. Honestly, I know he isn't very popular, but I'm thinking Sheamus could provide Brock with one of the best match ups possible during his most recent stint in WWE.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> I'm on the same side of the coin as C2D. I've seen pretty much absolutely nothing since Raw after Mania. Not even NXT I've been keeping up with. I've heard Owens and Cena had some good ones, and Sasha/Becky is the best women's match ever in the WWE and one of the best in American history, but nothing else. Part of me doesn't feel like coming up to speed either (because my passion for wrestling is kinda hibernated for a TBD date), but if I do, what else of good has happened this year? I think Ambrose and Rollins Main Evented some PPV's, ain't that right? :mark:


My WWE 2015 list. Everything I've rated *** 1/4 or higher or just felt pretty enamored with:



Spoiler: List



Ambulance Match: Dean Ambrose vs. Bray Wyatt (RAW 1/5) *** 1/2+
Seth Rollins & Big Show vs. Roman Reigns & Dean Ambrose (Smackdown 1/9) *** 1/4
The New Day vs. Cesaro, Tyson Kidd, & Adam Rose (Main Event 1/13) FUN
Daniel Bryan, Dean Ambrose, & Roman Reigns vs. Kane, Big Show, Seth Rollins (SD 1/15) *** 1/2
Ryback vs. Rusev (Smackdown 1/22) *** 1/2
WWE Championship: Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena vs. Seth Rollins (Royal Rumble) **** 1/2
Daniel Bryan vs. Seth Rollins (RAW 2/2) *** 1/2
Cesaro vs. Sin Cara (Main Event 2/12? Taped 2/10) *** 1/4
Dolph Ziggler, Ryback, & Erick Rowan vs. Seth Rollins, Kane, & Big Show (SD 2/26) *** 1/4
IC Title Contender's Gauntlet: Bryan vs. Harper & Bryan vs. Ziggler (SD 3/19) *** 3/4
John Cena, Roman Reigns, Mark Henry, & Daniel Bryan vs. Seth Rollins, Big Show, Kane, & Bray Wyatt (SD 3/26) *** 1/4
Tag Team Titles: Cesaro & Tyson Kidd vs. New Day vs. The Usos vs. Los Matadores (Wrestlemania 31) *** 1/4
IC Title Ladder Match (Wrestlemania 31) *** 1/2
Randy Orton vs. Seth Rollins (Wrestlemania 31) *** 1/4
WWE Championship: Brock Lesnar vs. Roman Reigns (Wrestlemania 31) **** 1/4
Intercontinental Championship: Daniel Bryan vs. Dolph Ziggler (RAW 3/30) - *** 1/2
Cesaro, Tyson Kidd, & The Ascension vs. New Day & Lucha Dragons (RAW 3/30) - *** 1/4
United States Championship: John Cena vs. Dean Ambrose (RAW 3/30) - *** 1/2
Naomi, AJ, & Paige vs. Natalya & The Bella Twins (RAW 3/30) - ***
Sheamus, Bad News Barrett, & Big Show vs. Dolph Ziggler, Roman Reigns, & Daniel Bryan (SD 4/9) *** 1/4
Seth Rollins & Luke Harper vs. Dean Ambrose & Roman Reigns (Smackdown 4/23) *** 1/2
Neville vs. Bad News Barrett (Extreme Rules PreShow) *** 1/4
Kiss Me Arse: Sheamus vs. Dolph Ziggler (Extreme Rules) *** 3/4
Tag Team Titles: Cesaro & Tyson Kidd vs. New Day (Extreme Rules) *** 1/2
WWE Championship Steel Cage Match: Seth Rollins vs. Randy Orton (Extreme Rules) *** 1/2
King of the Ring 1st Round: Sheamus vs. Dean Ambrose (RAW 4/27) *** 1/4
King of the Ring 1st Round: Neville vs. Luke Harper (RAW 4/27) *** 1/4
Seth Rollins & Kane vs. Randy Orton & Roman Reigns (RAW 4/27) *** 1/4
Seth Rollins vs. Dean Ambrose (RAW 5/4) *** 1/2
United State Championship: John Cena vs. Neville (RAW 5/11) *** 3/4
Sheamus vs. Dolph Ziggler (Payback) *** 1/4
2 out 3 Falls Tag Team Championship: New Day (c) vs. Cesaro & Kidd (Payback) *** 1/2
Ryback vs. Bray Wyatt (Payback) *** 1/4
WWE Title Fatal 4-Way: Seth Rollins (c) vs. Dean Ambrose vs. Randy Orton vs. Roman Reigns (Payback) *** 3/4
John Cena vs. Kevin Owens (Elimination Chamber) ****
NXT Championship: Kevin Owens (c) vs. Neville (RAW 6/8) *** 1/4
Money in the Bank Ladder Match (MITB) *** 1/4
John Cena vs. Kevin Owens (Money in the Bank) *** 3/4
WWE Championship Ladder Match: Seth Rollins (c) vs. Dean Ambrose (MITB) *** 1/2
Sheamus vs. Roman Reigns (RAW 6/22) *** 1/4
United States Championship: John Cena (c) vs. Cesaro (RAW 6/29) *** 3/4+


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HUGE news just broke!










The next live NXT special on the Network will be the day before Summerslam... in Brooklyn! :mark: What a weekend!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF and Choke2Death need to get on The New Day. Other than that, they can go back to hibernation or start watching Lucha Underground.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I never knew Morishima had a WWE 'tryout'


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Thought it looked like he was facing Cesaro, but it's actually Charlie Haas. :lol Looks like it's from August of 2008.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

@Choke2Death, forgot to say that Okada vs. Devitt at Kizuna Road II is a good place to start, especially as far as the showmanship/personality aspect.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> HUGE news just broke!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Debating going to the ROH show that same night in Brooklyn. The New Japan peeps are supposed to be there, which is a big incentive. More excited about that than NXT.

Did they announce a time for the NXT show?

Also, what do the ROH VIP tickets entail? Anyone ever bought them? Does it just mean good seats? ROH needs to get its marketing tools together, because I can't even find an answer to that on their website.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The New Day have been surprisingly entertaining once they embraced the heat from what little I've seen. That segment with Randy and Reigns was pretty fun and Woods really excels in the satiric "positive" role.

I'm sure 2015 has had quality matches and in practice, it's pretty much identical to any year since 2009 in WWE, it's just that now they don't even _pretend_ to present something worth watching. At least in 2013, The Authority was something new and Bryan's underdog story was fresh with him finally getting his overdue push. I tried watching Raw this week but they started off with that awful 20-minute advert by Rollins and it reminded me why I have not been able to consistently watch the product since last summer. I don't think the product has been this cold ever. They put the briefcase on Sheamus, great, but has he done _anything_ or does he just wrestle meaningless matches only now with a briefcase in his possession? Has he even cut a promo about it? (On Raw, that is, I don't count App promos) Brock may be back now, but I can't get excited about it until he gets a fresh opponent to wrestle. Rollins is a workhorse but I've soured on him because they've tried to make him Triple H way too much. He's not meant to give these boring 20 minute speeches, it's just not his forte. And taking away the Curb Stomp to replace it with that crappy Pedigree further makes him look average.

Other than that, they throw shit at the wall and hope it sticks. Nothing else can explain the complete joke that was the return of _King of the Ring_. Blink and you would've missed that shit, not to mention Barrett is still a jobber, only with a crown on his head this time. And I've been one of Orton's biggest defenders but sadly, he's hit that 2012 slump again and this time, even I can't defend his work. The way he's coasting in recent memory, he's become about as fun in the ring as watching paint dry. Those Sheamus matches last month were lifeless. His chemistry with Rollins was also more miss than hit. Making him a part-timer is for the best, now just get him in a match with Brock so I can finally jump off the sinking ship. But I don't even know if I can get excited about this match-up now if it does happen fearing that Orton will just continue wrestling a super methodical, snail's pace match with headlocks and stomps galore.

re: good matches. I checked out Cena vs Cesaro from this week and it was good as expected with them finally protecting Cesaro which is a nice change. Cena vs Owens I and II were both fantastic, specially the second one. Reigns and Sheamus had a solid match a few weeks ago that I happened to catch. I've been tolerating Reigns more since WM, now give him another year to develop then maybe he'll be ready to carry the gold. Nothing will damage that worse for me than if they do Brock vs Reigns at SummerSlam like that leaked poster has implied, though.

@[USER]LilOlMe[/USER] I might give them a shot eventually but the main thing is that I feel way too unenthusiastic about wrestling in general. Once I finish 2002, I'll probably jet for a few months at the very least.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

LilOlMe said:


> Debating going to the ROH show that same night in Brooklyn. The New Japan peeps are supposed to be there, which is a big incentive. More excited about that than NXT.
> 
> Did they announce a time for the NXT show?
> 
> Also, what do the ROH VIP tickets entail? Anyone ever bought them? Does it just mean good seats? ROH needs to get its marketing tools together, because I can't even find an answer to that on their website.


IIRC, VIP seats for Field of Honor actually put you on the ground instead of being behind the net in the stands (the foul ball net). I imagine it probably involves a meet and greet or autograph signing too, but they usually don't announce who's gonna be a part of those until a few days before the show.

NXT special will probably be the usual 8 o clock start time, but we don't know yet. Tickets don't go on sale until July 18th, but they're running from the Barclays Center so I'm not sure if they honestly expect to fill that place or not. They're doing THREE straight shows there!

Really not sure what to expect from the show either. Will Owens even still be on NXT? Joe vs. Owens? Balor vs....?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> HUGE news just broke!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


New tag champions confirmed. 




Rah said:


> 2015 is suffering from itself, sadly. The over-arcing feel of the booking has killed a lot of interest in the product, which is a shame, considering how frequently good TV matches are produced these days. I'm one of those fans but I occasionally dabble in the odd Main Event/Superstars and I'm really impressed with the body of work the guys are putting in. Shitty, short matches but the work within those few minutes is stellar. That isn't too say there's a bunch of gold that people are missing out on, like we were in 2013, but there's one or two every other week. Reigns is killing it. Sasha Banks is killing it. Cesaro is killing it. Cena is killing it. Owens is straight up murdering it. Brock's back. Lots to look forward to, and a lot to enjoy from the past few months. 2013/2014 had so, so many great matches but this year has had some damn fantastic ones. Reigns/Brock + Sasha/Becky = :cesaro


Welp, we're back on the 100% agreeing train again. Hope you're ok w/this. :zayn


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hells yes. Stole your gimmick, @Rah.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That quality looks, really good for what may be a house show. Judging by the screenshots.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

so should i watch brock murder kofi soon


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Goddammit that video already got removed. What was it?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Goddammit that video already got removed. What was it?


Dammit. It was Jericho vs. Finn Balor from yesterday's show in Tokyo. Knew I should've watched it last night as soon as I found it...

And yeah, the quality was fantastic.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Congrats to Kofi Kingston on having his best ever match!!!


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

BFTE ratings/thoughts

Jericho/Neville - Didn't like Jericho going over but this was still a super fun opener, ****1/4*

Divas 3 way 8*D - This was a surprisingly enjoyable sprint and despite the abrupt finish, certainly a hell of a lot better than the EC triple threat with Naomi. ***1/4*

:lelbrock:lelbrock:lelbrock:lelbrock:lelbrock

Owens/Balor - Fuck this was good, and it would have been even better with five more minutes. Owens is a brilliant heel and gave us several hilarious moments of douchebaggery, and the whole story of Finn winning the title in his homecoming was excellent. ****3/4*

Cena/Ziggler vs. Kane/Barrett - The show was named after Brock and the NXT Title match was the most anticipated, so of course this main events. :CENA Ziggler gets his ass kicked for half of the match and Cena wins in literally a minute after getting the hot tag :lmao and of course Barrett takes the pin because Kane's dinosaur ass really needs the protection. It sounds like I hated this match but I actually enjoyed it as I do the majority of STF matches. *****

Really good little show this was. I kind of wish Brock had gotten more time with someone who could be more competitive and about 10 minutes could have been shaved off of the tag match and given to everything else but those are minor gripes. I groaned at the start of the show when I heard Cole and Saxton start talking but they were actually quite a pleasant surprise on commentary, which I guess was a result of Vince and Dunn not being around to ruin them. So yeah, this was fun.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

There was a good Angle/Flair match on Raw in '05 I think, anyone know the date?


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Can't wait to get round to watching Balor/Owens. Heard good things.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Owens/Balor: ****
Jericho/Neville: ***1/2

Lesnar/Kofi was fun, too. No way would I watch the other two matches. 7 minutes for the divas is okay, but 25 minutes for Cena/Ziggler vs. Kane/Barrett... no thanks.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

As fun as it is watching Brock toss guys like little children, I wish he would bust out more of that old arsenal once and a while. I mean shoot, Brock can always play Jason Voorheese better than everyone outside of maybe Vader, but the offense could be mixed up once in a while. Sure, suplex city is fun and over as hell, but maybe go a Bane route of trying to break a guy's back with those triple backbreakers, that beautiful powerslam and double powerbombs he used to break out back in the day. Love to see the Brock lock return too (if memory serves, last time Brock busted that out was 30 vs Taker, could've been even earlier). Benoit was so great at selling the agony of that while it looked like he was tied like a damn pretzel. Just an opinion, but again while suplex city is fun and for Brock makes sense, as a viewer (even as a huge Lesnar mark), it is getting slightly stale.

edit: I give Neville/Jericho ***1/4. pretty good little homage to 90s NJPW competition spots mixed in with some more modernized counters and actually, Jericho wasn't too shabby. Guy in my opinion looked like was a shell of himself latest run, but Jericho worked a pretty decent pace there, hit his spots well and mixed in some physicality ala 90s Jericho.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I wouldn't expect more Lesnar offense in a 2 minute match with Kofi Kingston. Now, going 20+ with Rollins at Battleground? Yeah, I expect he'll bust out some more offense. 

Even if he doesn't, though. Everything just feels different when Lesnar is involved. It feels more real. More brutal. It's fun seeing him throw around grown men like it's absolutely nothing. He's legit the only reason I'm still watching the product at this point. Lesnar is just flat out fun to watch, regardless of what he's doing.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

RatedR10 said:


> I wouldn't expect more Lesnar offense in a 2 minute match with Kofi Kingston. Now, going 20+ with Rollins at Battleground? Yeah, I expect he'll bust out some more offense.
> 
> Even if he doesn't, though. Everything just feels different when Lesnar is involved. It feels more real. More brutal. It's fun seeing him throw around grown men like it's absolutely nothing. He's legit the only reason I'm still watching the product at this point. Lesnar is just flat out fun to watch, regardless of what he's doing.


Oh of course it is still fun and of course Brock is still the man all I'm saying is Brock could stand to mix up his arsenal once in a while. Literally that is all I'm sayin.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

*NXT: Bam Bam Bigelow*

Chris Jericho vs. Adrian Neville: ******
Tamina Snuka vs. Nikki Bella vs. Paige:****
Brock Lesnar vs. Kofi Kingston: :lmao
Kevin Owens vs. Finn Balor: ****3/4*
Ziggler/Cena vs. Barrett/Kane: ***1/2*

Another day, another excellent NXT event.


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

*WWE The Beast in the East 7/4*

Chris Jericho vs. Adrian Neville: ***1/2 (_Match of the show_)
Tamina Snuka vs. Nikki Bella vs. Paige:*
Brock Lesnar vs. Kofi Kingston N/R
Kevin Owens vs. Finn Balor: ***1/4-***1/2
Ziggler/Cena vs. Barrett/Kane: *


----------



## mrdiamond77 (Feb 14, 2015)

Jericho/Neville ****
Tamina/Nikki/Paige **1/2
Brock/Kofi **1/2
Owens/Balor ****
Ziggler/Cena vs Kane/Barrett ***


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

WWE Beast in the East was a pretty good show aside from 2 matches (admittedly I didn't watch the Divas match because NO). Jericho/Neville was really good, Brock/Kofi was a fun squash, and Balor/Owens was great and MOTN. Owens is such a great heel it's not even funny and it makes his control segments that much fun to watch with Owens disrespecting Japanese traditions by throwing out the flowers, taunting Balor, using Cena's comeback sequence to reference his feud with Cena. Balor also did a really good job with his offense and selling (he busted out Bloody Sunday :mark which led to a great moment at the end. I wasn't feeling Ziggler/Cena vs. Kane/Barrett as I thought it felt too long and I was close to sleeping lol. Other than that, pretty good show in Tokyo (Y)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> There was a good Angle/Flair match on Raw in '05 I think, anyone know the date?


It's 6/27/05 I believe, and it's not just a good match its a GREAT match. Like really, really great IMO. Angle is absolutely perfect in it, none of his bullshit, he plays his character to perfection and allows Ric in his "Old Man Flair" phase to really really shine through. Flair just cheats up a storm, and Angle keeps getting more and more pissed. 

Flair/Angle and Angle/Jannetty from 2005 were both just amazing matches to me, if Angle wrestled like he did in those matches all the time he would be one of my favorite guys ever.




WrestlingOracle said:


> As fun as it is watching Brock toss guys like little children, I wish he would bust out more of that old arsenal once and a while. I mean shoot, Brock can always play Jason Voorheese better than everyone outside of maybe Vader, but the offense could be mixed up once in a while. Sure, suplex city is fun and over as hell, but maybe go a Bane route of trying to break a guy's back with those triple backbreakers, that beautiful powerslam and double powerbombs he used to break out back in the day. Love to see the Brock lock return too (if memory serves, last time Brock busted that out was 30 vs Taker, could've been even earlier). Benoit was so great at selling the agony of that while it looked like he was tied like a damn pretzel. Just an opinion, but again while suplex city is fun and for Brock makes sense, as a viewer (even as a huge Lesnar mark), it is getting slightly stale.
> 
> edit: I give Neville/Jericho ***1/4. pretty good little homage to 90s NJPW competition spots mixed in with some more modernized counters and actually, Jericho wasn't too shabby. Guy in my opinion looked like was a shell of himself latest run, but Jericho worked a pretty decent pace there, hit his spots well and mixed in some physicality ala 90s Jericho.


There arent many people who are bigger Brock Lesnar fans than me and even I agree with you, to an extent. He didn't need to do any different moves in the Kofi match because of the length, but I do hope he does something other than German and Belly to Belly Suplexes in his bout with Rollins. 

His match since his return and IMO his best match ever was the bout with Punk and he sure as hell used a varied offense in that one. Seeing as Rollins is a heel and Lesnar will be the baby face he won't be able to work the same way at Battleground but it would at least be fun if he busted out some of his old power moves like the high cradle fisherman buster, the multiple back breakers, power bombs, etc.




RatedR10 said:


> I wouldn't expect more Lesnar offense in a 2 minute match with Kofi Kingston. Now, going 20+ with Rollins at Battleground? Yeah, I expect he'll bust out some more offense.
> 
> Even if he doesn't, though. Everything just feels different when Lesnar is involved. It feels more real. More brutal. It's fun seeing him throw around grown men like it's absolutely nothing. He's legit the only reason I'm still watching the product at this point. Lesnar is just flat out fun to watch, regardless of what he's doing.


Agree 100%. Right now in the WWE there is nothing more electric than when the bell sounds to start a Brock Lesnar match. He's become the biggest star in the company, the biggest attraction, every match seems like a potential match of the year, and his physicality and brute force is unlike anything I've seen in a WWE ring. Fans realize that he is legitimately kicking his opponents ass, his knees and clotheslines and suplexes are all delivered with devastating force. He's just DIFFERENT than anyone else we have ever seen. I love it.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> It's 6/27/05 I believe, and it's not just a good match its a GREAT match. Like really, really great IMO. Angle is absolutely perfect in it, none of his bullshit, he plays his character to perfection and allows Ric in his "Old Man Flair" phase to really really shine through. Flair just cheats up a storm, and Angle keeps getting more and more pissed.
> 
> Flair/Angle and Angle/Jannetty from 2005 were both just amazing matches to me, if Angle wrestled like he did in those matches all the time he would be one of my favorite guys ever.
> 
> ...


In this role: Brock's matches aren't just matches: they are events. The ability really is crazy that goes beyond the physicals myself, Hitman and others have talked about ad nausieum: it is the tiniest things that Brock just does tremendously that one may not think about but when you do it makes you think "holy shit". For instance, so many do the slaps, particularly in Puro: Brock Lesnar does one open hand slap to Reigns at WM 31 and you can hear that smack and it looks like a slap the Jose Rodriguez would be proud of. Alot of bigmen over the years have done the denial of pain headshake: yet Brock and Taker are the two guys that just have really made that resonate to where as a viewer watching as a fan ya think "boy did he mess up". Watch Brock's kickouts: guy will pop out at one on just the right cue to amplify being Jason Voorheese, but when he needs to make a crowd think the opponent has a chance, he has great precision at kicking out at two and a half or two and a forth depending on the damage. Alot of guys currently just cannot do this: not even Cena (albeit that has been a weak spot in Cena's game for some time). Hell, just that visible intensity when the bell rings and yet before that Cro Crop-esque calmness staring a hole through guys. 

I will always champion Brock's selling too: flailing in pain for Benoit's chops, great way of making sure that we can somewhat believe a 180 pound CM Punk can go with a winner of the genetic lottery (I will never forget one of those beatdowns that Punk did, may have been the go home: and Brock just has this certain dazed look in his eyes that told the whole story), that corner to corner staggering when Reigns went on a rally at 31 yet never leaving his feet until the time was right, feeding Undertaker at No Mercy 02, the serious air he gets on chokeslams: we could go on and on. Sure there is corny stuff from time to time like screaming in agony during that cage match for HHH's offense (I have no doubt that came straight from Paul) and the flailing like a fish for Big Show, but 99 percent of the time the man is money. Only guys bigger in weight than him I can think of better at the art of selling is Taker in respect to the leg and Stan Hansen. Crazy thing is: it takes some guys years to learn this stuff, and Brock learned it damn near out of the gate.


----------



## tboneangle (Jan 14, 2009)

Jericho Neville ****
Women's **3/4
Bork *** (more of an event as mentioned earlier)
Owens Balor ****1/2
Main event***1/2


----------



## -Skullbone- (Sep 20, 2006)

Wow, Neville and Jericho was that good eh? I didn't think there was much to see with Jericho anymore. Will have to give it a look soon


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I need to check out that Angle/Flair match mentioned earlier.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Watch this or save it your computer before it gets deleted again!


----------



## Game1778 (Aug 19, 2004)

Thanks Jack for posting that match


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Watched Dominion 2015. The $8.15 for New Japan World is so worth it.

Shibata vs. Sakuraba was a masterpiece. The whole thing was so seamless. The little details in their technique were incredible, and the match blew me away. The visuals stay with you. 

Goto vs. Nakamura was tremendous, and became more and more epic as it went on. Thought the Shibata match was the MOTN up until that point. Still not sure now.

Glanced at a few places online, and the fact that people are debating between three different matches being MOTN says a lot about the quality.

Okada vs. Styles was great, and the ending sequence was incredible. I love how every wrestler perfectly puts over how dangerous the Styles Clash is, with how desperately they try to get out the moment it seems eminent. Ditto with how it's teased throughout matches. That move might be the most perfectly booked move in wresting.

As for Shibata, started watching a bunch of his stuff because he impresses me so. vs. Kojima 8/2/13 & vs. Honma 8/3/14 stood out to me especially. Felt that they matched his quality the best.

What prompted the binge was re-watching Shibata's five star match against Ishii (8/4/13). I had read about Shibata's background, plus the heat he had with Tanahashi, so that made me view the match through a different prism.

Was phenomenal, and one of the most ultra-competitive matches.

That's what I love about Shibata. Every fucking thing is alpha, and aggressive, and competitive, and just an aura of such realness. Love how focused he is, to the point where he won't even look at his opponent when they enter the ring.

I can totally see why someone wouldn't be into him, mainly due to the no-selling, but I find him so compelling to watch in his realm that that choice isn't really bothersome.

I've watched like 12 of his matches now, and every time it has my attention totally, which is rare.

Also think that he's amazing technically (not surprised to see that he wrestled at a national level amateurly). That was on display at Dominion, and I love the little touches like the way he plies his hands when doing the sleeper hold.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Neville vs. Jericho was surprisingly good. Jericho did look winded at times, but I thought that the match was smartly laid out. Neville's exasperated facial expressions were great when Jericho moved, and of course the ending sequence was tops. Thought it was MOTN, and wasn't expecting that.

The "Supex City!!" chants were the most adorable thing ever. So endearing. We all knew it'd be a squash and that's not too bad for someone like Brock, but I wish there was a little more humor or originality involved. We knew it'd be really short, but I think if you're gonna market a special event around someone, at least make it a _little_ more special.

I mainly just liked it for the crowd, and seeing and hearing their reaction to everyone.

Balor vs. Owens was fun. Both worked their asses off, and that was the most elaborate paint job yet, I think, lol. KENTA looked legit sad/jealous that he couldn't wrestle that night, lol.

Didn't even bother with the main-event. I'm realizing I have no patience for those type of WWE tags anymore. Haven't watched Smackdown in weeks because of that. 

@Jack Evans 187, thanks for answering. Do you know if the highest priced ROH non-VIP seats are any good at ballparks? Someone said something that made me feel that they were kind of set far back, but that would be weird, as you'd think they'd set the ring close enough.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Shibata and Goto are two guys that I think are cool and I love the bromance that they have. I just hate watching them in the ring because they personify much of what I dislike in wrestling. Stiff strikes, no-selling, and dull matches. With that said, Shibata/Sakuraba was really good and Goto/Nakamura was also a solid match.

Hopefully someone recorded Cesaro/Primo from yesterday's event. I heard that they were given 20 minutes and it was some impressive stuff.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Watched Beast in the East. Thought it was a bunch of fun for many of the same reasons LilOlMe referred to. The crowd was a joy to watch and listen to. It was literally like a WWE crowd that traveled to Japan. Nothing like whta you would hear at a New Japan show. Also got a huge laugh out of the guys in the crowd who were dressed like Kevin Owens and one of the Vaudevillians. :lol

Jericho vs. Neville - *** 3/4 (Liked the mini stories they portrayed through this. Early goings Neville shows his speed and Jericho tries to ground him, Neville gets his second and/or third wind and starts flying everywhere, but Jericho is the veteran who has a counter for everything. Really nifty match and surprised by the result. Gotta love house shows for shit like this)

Nikki vs. Paige vs. Tamina - ** (Paige was literally the ONLY one of these three that got any kind of reaction. :lol This match would've actually been pretty decent if they didn't rush through everything. I thought it was watchable despite that)

Lesnar vs. Kofi - Entertaining squash. Lots of suplexes. The end.

Owens vs. Balor - **** (This was quite the spectacle the whole way through. I thought Owens' heel performance was incredible here and Balor wrestled at a crazy high pace like I haven't seen from him in NXT yet. Whole thing was a blast and it probably would've been better if that damn ref didn't count so fast)

Cena & Ziggler vs. Kane & Barrett - *** (I have no idea why this main evented, but the work during the match was prety enthralling tbh. I always love a good southern style tag and they took it to the max here. Kane _actually_ looked like a big monster at times. Everyone really worked hard I think, but then the finish happens and you kinda feel like you wasted 20 minutes. Oh well, it's a house show.)



LilOlMe said:


> @Jack Evans 187, thanks for answering. Do you know if the highest priced ROH non-VIP seats are any good at ballparks? Someone said something that made me feel that they were kind of set far back, but that would be weird, as you'd think they'd set the ring close enough.


No clue to be honest. They should still be great seats, especially if they're front row or first couple in the stands. This picture pretty much gives the view of where that would be: http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Rw7aWSkn5W4/hqdefault.jpg



funnyfaces1 said:


> *I just hate watching them in the ring because they personify much of what I dislike in wrestling. Stiff strikes, no-selling, and dull matches. *
> 
> Hopefully someone recorded Cesaro/Primo from yesterday's event. I heard that they were given 20 minutes and it was some impressive stuff.


This times a million. The first couple matches I saw from Shibata I fucking HATED. I can tolerate him now though and I actually caught the tale end of a match with Tanahashi from last year's G1 that looked pretty awesome. I can at least say that I loved Goto's New Japan Cup final with Ibushi.

For real? How did I know Cesaro was gonna pull some shit like that just like he did with Sin Cara on Main Event?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Cesaro/Diego went 8 minutes. Someone trolled you via Wikipedia.







Different match to their Singapore bout.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Ric Flair vs Lex Luger (Great American Bash 1988) (World Title)*

x2wv8qk

Live PPV Version. Requested.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i have s specific time i try and sleep now

so i have about 2 hours to watch a bit of wrestling

i'm using the first hour to watch angle/lesnar iron man match, not sure about the other hour yet

edit - the other will be orton/cena from bragging rights 2009. hey if worst comes to worst i might fall sleep early


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

LilOlMe said:


> Watched Dominion 2015. The $8.15 for New Japan World is so worth it.
> 
> Shibata vs. Sakuraba was a masterpiece. The whole thing was so seamless. The little details in their technique were incredible, and the match blew me away. The visuals stay with you.


I am so in love with this match. The selling and technical "this is how you do that" is amazing. Really love seeing Sakuraba as a bonafide wrestler and those two are bacon and eggs together. The strikes were on point and did I mention the selling?! They worked an MMA-inspired, pro-wrestling match better than any I've seen in the last 6-8 years. No Irish Whips, and the only slam I saw was the big German. Yet, it didn't feel like a crummy "shoot" fight or forget that this is pro graps. The opening chain was :banderas Just really well put together and fit naturally with both guys and their background.

I've only seen through the Junior Heavy Title match, but this has been my favorite of the show so far. Will be watching the rest tonight. 5 hours is a lot for me in one sitting:lol




> Neville vs. Jericho was surprisingly good. Jericho did look winded at times, but I thought that the match was smartly laid out. Neville's exasperated facial expressions were great when Jericho moved, and of course the ending sequence was tops. Thought it was MOTN, and wasn't expecting that.
> 
> The "Supex City!!" chants were the most adorable thing ever. So endearing. We all knew it'd be a squash and that's not too bad for someone like Brock, but I wish there was a little more humor or originally involved. We knew it'd be really short, but I think if you're gonna market a special event around someone, at least make it a _little_ more special.
> 
> ...


I liked the NXT Title match only slightly better than the opener, but had both at ***3/4. The opener of the title match was a little clunky, but after they settled down, it was very good. Owens :mark:

Another thing, and it's obv not their fault, but the damn skipping on the feed was taking me out of the match, and I wasn't even watching it live! What the shit is that? 

Otherwise, I totally agree with you on the show, but did watch the main, and while it's not something I thought people need to see, it wasn't bad in any way.

Overall, I did enjoy how the show was structured - every match was different, and good/great for what it was. Kofi getting murdered on that first German was ridiculous, and had fun with the whole show.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

You guys have any thoughts as to what would headline the NXT Takeover event in Brooklyn? I'm pretty much racking my brain as to what they could run that would sell 10-15,000 tickets tickets in that place. The obvious answer is Joe vs. Owens, but everything seems so cloudy now that Owens has lost the NXT Title and may presumably beat Cena for the U.S. Title. Even if he doesn't, does he abandon the prize fighter moniker and decide to fight Joe in a #1 contender's match or something? If that happens, who the hell does Balor defend against? Or do they go with a 3-way? So many questions I have with that show. Bold move to run there when so much of your top talent is injured or does double duty with the main roster. Going head-to-head with Field of Honor too.

I guess if the show only runs two hours, you could do this:

NXT Championship
Balor vs. Joe vs. Owens

NXT Tag Team Championship
Blake & Murphy vs. Enzo & Cass vs. The Vaudevillians

NXT Women's Championship
Sasha vs. Bayley vs. Becky Lynch

Then name the show NXT Takeover: Triple Threat. :lol


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

@Jack Evans 187, I assume that they'll set up a much smaller setting inside of the Barclays Center. Some big arenas even have smaller theaters inside the arena. I doubt they think they can sell 10,000+ tickets. That would be nuts.

Also, thank you for the ROH picture. That netting looks annoying, and the best seats that came up were all the way in row V, though they were in the center. Think I might go for the VIP seats, because that picture didn't look like a great view. Hope I'm not wrong, though, because sometimes seats look crappy in pictures, but much better in person.

Totally agree with you, btw, about the WWE Japanese audience seeming transported.

@KENNY, did you end up watching the Cena/Orton Iron Man match? If so, what did you think?

@JustJoel, curious about your thoughts on the rest of the Dominion matches once you watch. Especially your thoughts on MOTN. Will "like" your post later, lol. You're making me want to watch that Shibata match again.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Gonna go see Ted 2 tonight instead of watching RAW. Hoping I made the right choice.  They're in Chicago and they always get the good shit.
@LilOlMe, no problem. The quality of the picture was kinda shitty because it was a screenshot of a Youtube video, but at least it helped you out. You're not going to Summerslam too are you? Can't imagine how much those tickets were if so. Also, did you see the first match they announced for Field of Honor? Briscoes vs. Time Splitters (Shelley & KUSHIDA). That one has some awesome potential.

Really wish I was able to take the vacation and head up to New York for the first time for that awesome wrestling weekend. I work retail though and that's right in the middle of back to school, so it wasn't really possible from the get-go. Probably for the best because I'd end up spending way too much money. :lol


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

They'll have someone like Hogan or Flair appear at the NXT show to try and sell tickets.

I'm guessing Owens/Cena happens at Summerslam in the blow off to their feud so I doubt Owens will wrestle. Wouldn't surprise me if someone like Cesaro or someone who isn't on the Summerslam card wrestles as well.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

If Zayn is back from injury they could go with Joe vs Owens as a #1 contenders match and Zayn vs Balor for the NXT title. They could work the angle were Balor turns heel on Zayn, Zayn loses and is sent up to the main roster for good, and then heel Balor vs baby face Joe is the next NXT title feud.

The issue with that is the baby face side of the main roster is already really crowded. They need a new, fresh, top heel to go along with Rollins and Owens. If they turned Reigns, which they should, that would leave Reigns, Rollins, Owens, Sheamus, Wyatt, and Harper as their top heels and Cena, Ambrose, Zayn, Ziggler, Neville, and Cesaro as their top baby faces. I like that alignment a lot, no more reason for Kane and Big Show to be in the thick of things.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Only problem with that is that Zayn said he won't be wrestling again this calendar year.

Ted 2 was fucking hilarious btw. Everyone should see it.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I know I gush alot about Brock's physical abilities: but how far Brock just threw that damn car door, I'm certain that if Brock trained for it, he could be world class in javelin. I wouldn't believe that if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes jeez. Some strong firemen/others have ripped off cardoors with their hands before, but that throw was superhuman. 
I kinda looked away for a second: but I'm pretty sure I just saw Lesnar enter the ring in one movement as well ala Eddie Guerrero (who was around 220 ish lbs not 285). I think I did anyway.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Cena and Cesaro are unreal.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

What an excellent match.

EDIT: And John Cena ruins it by no-selling.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

****1/2 for that one, IMO. So good. Cesaro and Cena are incapable of having a bad match with each other.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Cesaro/Cena did it again. These two have pretty damn good chemistry which leads to great matches. I mark every time I hear these two are facing off and they always deliver. Great stuff.

Good Raw overall imo. I thought Ryback/Big Show was solid and Brock killing a car was fantastic. Not enough to get me hyped for Battleground, but good show nonetheless.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Those two do it again! **** 1/4 for Cena vs. Cesaro tonight, same rating as I gave last year's RAW match. Incredible stuff from both guys.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Cesaro/Cena was great, but I think their match last week was better (as well as the one from last year). It was dragging for me by the end and the constant kick outs just stuck out more to me in this match for some reason. Cena picking up the win is fine with me, I didn't want Cesaro winning the US Title right now anyway. Overall though an excellent match and it was very nice to have a singles match as the main event of Raw that didn't have something to do with The Authority. ***3/4 for it from me.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Cena and Cesaro man: certain recurring guys you watch in the ring that are prideful to their craft, you can see that when they go in there they are show the other one that the other is the one that needs to keep up: it may not always be the cleanest, but the stamina and effort that these two give in terms of pure to steal a bodybuilding philosophical point "volume lifting" is off the charts. These two all four times have given each other everything they have, and that is fun to watch as a viewer. I didn't really watch for the finer points there (maybe I should go back and do so), but watching just casually and as as someone who likes weightlifting, I enjoyed the strength endurance on display there, yet Cesaro when he needed to for a change-up call back took it to the mat once in a while too. **** for now. 

Another stellar entry in the 2015 Cena catolog. Guy is turning out these "Cena epics" like clockwork.

edit: remember people: in addition to the February Cesaro match and last week: the two also had that somewhat not forgotten, but perhaps underrated encounter spurred by the Cesaro "K mart boots joke" and per the promo, Cena starting the match trying to "outwrestle" Cesaro in a chain form only to ditch it and go to plan B. To me that was a ***3/4 encounter. Like this one: it also ended with the super AA.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Cena/Cesaro was one of the clunkiest big matches ever. Surprised you guys aren't ripping it. Every move felt so setupy, and there was no natural smoothness at all. The kitchen sink was thrown in just to throw it in it.

Really awkward match, I thought, and only felt "special" because it was given time and they did a ton. Didn't do a ton well, though, IMO.

Last week smokes it, and neither touches their RAW match from a year or so ago.

Oh, and the spot calling was fucking horrendous, even for a Cena match. I mean it happened SO much that it was almost like a purposeful running joke. Beyond distracting, and I've been pretty much resigned to that.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> @LilOlMe, no problem. The quality of the picture was kinda shitty because it was a screenshot of a Youtube video, but at least it helped you out. You're not going to Summerslam too are you? Can't imagine how much those tickets were if so. Also, did you see the first match they announced for Field of Honor? Briscoes vs. Time Splitters (Shelley & KUSHIDA). That one has some awesome potential.


Haven't heard anything about the card except that Okada and Nakamura are supposed to be there. Hope it's not a bunch of random tags with them, but I'm sure it will be.

As for Summerslam, no, it sold out within minutes and I wasn't even thinking about going at the time. Now, I wish I had. Might as well make a whole event of it.



WrestlingOracle said:


> I know I gush alot about Brock's physical abilities: but how far Brock just threw that damn car door, I'm certain that if Brock trained for it, he could be world class in javelin. I wouldn't believe that if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes jeez. Some strong firemen/others have ripped off cardoors with their hands before, but that throw was superhuman.


That was incredible, and might be the highlight of the show, lol. You know it was good when they decided to replay it, even despite the potential lawsuit threat of it looking like part of it landed in the audience.

I thought Seth's promo backstage with H was REALLY good. Too bad they had him come out and say the same, typical, draggy, shit he's been saying for months now 30 minutes later.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I heard and saw the spot calling as well but you pretty much see it in all of Cena's matches these day so it didn't bother me. I thought all the submission sequences were super smooth, or at least as smooth as you can get with two guys who are 240+ pounds. Cesaro squatting with Cena held in suplex position was incredible. Nearfall after the Neutralizer made me jump out of my seat. Basically I loved it. 

They won't waste Nakamura & Okada now that they're going head to head with NXT. They already put KUSHIDA in the tag match so I'm willing to bet the other two have singles. Roddy Strong & Adam Cole seem like strong possibilities (hopefully not Elgin).

Also keep your eyes open for an Aries appearance. He's returning to ROH this Saturday in Las Vegas.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just watched it once, good match but all the other cena/cesaro's smoke this one by alot


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

I thought this Cesaro/Cena match smoked last week's match and the RAW 7/28/14 match. Something about this match that felt a lot smoother than last week's match and their 7/28/14 match while good wasn't really anything to write home about. Their RAW 2/17/14 match will never be topped though. No matter how hard they try.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

cena/cesaro again? i havent seen the first one. (last week). i havent watched raw in a while, non spoiler wise should i check todays one out?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I've only sat through one segment, but Lesnar's bit toward the end of the show is definitely must see.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The 9/20/89.Liger/Sano match has been shown in full for the first time ever, on NJPW World. Another holy grail discovered. 

I havn't got NJPW World, but i need to try and get my hands on this.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KENNY said:


> cena/cesaro again? i havent seen the first one. (last week). i havent watched raw in a while, non spoiler wise should i check todays one out?


You should watch last week's and this week's. Both are great matches.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Brock said:


> The 9/20/89.Liger/Sano match has been shown in full for the first time ever, on NJPW World. Another holy grail discovered.
> 
> I havn't got NJPW World, but i need to try and get my hands on this.


Great news. Hoping they drop a bunch of 70s Andre we don't have more than anything too. I think there was this multi-disc comp of him officially released but it was ludicrously costly and I remember seeing the matchlist include matches I'd never heard of.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

There's a good few of those early Andre matches around, and they pop up via Google searches. Not all of them are unclipped (I wouldn't wager against the comp versions being clipped, either) but it's something. Ladd/Andre must be one of the more surreal matches I've seen. Ladd's a big guy, 6'9" and 330 odd lbs yet there's a whole average person in weight difference between him and Andre.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I got the first five discs of the Andre comp from IVP and everything on there is super (I thought years ago, anyway). What I really took from it was *just* how much of a personality Andre had. There's a tag or two w/ him and three other guys and I say 'three other guys' because Andre stood out so much as an electric wrestling genius that I can't even remember who he was with. I don't remember their nationalities or anything. Fuckin hell it could've been a six-man. ????? They might've been fine wrestlers, hell, they might've been *great* wrestlers, IDFK, but I just didn't want to look away from Andre because he was always doing something spectacular. I miss when the Australian/US dollar convert would mean that comps would be LESS expensive than advertised. Now the AUS dollar is at a 6-year low. ughhhhhhhh

The comp you linked seems to be missing stuff the IVP set has, unless the year dates are messed up (like it has a Sakaguchi match from 84 where the IVP has one from 74).

[hide]As it turns out that comp I mentioned that was uber-expensive doesn't seem to have anything I haven't seen. Well it does have Andre/Fujinami from the 70s which might be a two minute clip if this guy AKA youtube's new Best Channel as awarded by me got it from there: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFnR9UlFVvrO94dfRH_3o1Q/videos

edit - just watched the Andre/Fujinami clip holy fuck it looks amazing. Goddamn no justice when that shit is probably gone forever while we have hundreds of R-Truth in 1080p.
[/hide]

I do like that I neglected 70s US Andre by just assuming almost nothing was out there. I'm happy now that I got stuff to watch. Watch out, 2021.


----------------------------
Are we doing that 'watch a series' thing for real? I think I found every Slaughter/Sheik on the web and might go for it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> Cena/Cesaro was one of the clunkiest big matches ever. Surprised you guys aren't ripping it. Every move felt so setupy, and there was no natural smoothness at all. The kitchen sink was thrown in just to throw it in it.
> 
> Really awkward match, I thought, and only felt "special" because it was given time and they did a ton. Didn't do a ton well, though, IMO.
> 
> ...


The match did at times feel a bit too back-and-forth and setupy, but considering how much the crowd was into every single move, I think it's a forgivable issue. I do like that the finisher kickouts actually had something to do with the ending, but the fact that Cesaro and Cena kicked out of each other's finishers last week kinda hurt the suspense. Cena's spotcalling is terrible, but I guess I can look past it because my laptop speakers can't catch a lot of what he says, and a lot of all-time greats had the spotcalling problem as well. I mean Austin for instance didn't even try to hide his jawjacking, and Punk might as well put his mouth next to his opponent's mouth during all his restholds.

The "clunkiness" of the match is something that I would actually argue added to the match. I've never been one to care about the execution of moves so long as the move is performed safely. What I'm not a fan of is when moves are done too "precisely" to the point where the match stops looking like a struggle and more like choreography. Having that level of clunkiness and sloppiness can sometimes make the match feel more like a competition so long as the wrestlers don't look like they're lost. In the case of Cesaro/Cena, something like Cesaro not landing perfectly on his feet after reversing the AA did a great job of showing the rigor of the bout.


EDIT: I would still like to do the match series thing, but it doesn't look like we have many participants. Shame, because I have quite a few combinations in mind (Savage vs. Santana, Rockers vs. Rose/Somers, Rock/Benoit).


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

I thought Raw was great by the way. The crowd made it much better and shows how important a crowd is to a show. Good to see them opening with something different by having Heyman GOAT it up on the microphone as he does best. I thought Rusevs segment, Brock/Rollins segment and the Main Event obviously were key highlights but honourable mentions to Dallas/Ambrose dueling chants and continuity of Wyatt/Reigns.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I'd be down for the series thing


----------



## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

Raw main event sucked. Cena doing the same thing as 90% of his matches. I guess in WWE if someone has a 15+ minute match it's immediately at least "great". :lmao


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Throw some series at me, FF.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Heads up everyone: In another thread someone said that NJPW World is free from the 8th to the 17th.

@Jack Evans 187, I actually don't really watch current ROH, so I wouldn't have much to contribute to the thread right now. Once I go to the show, I'm sure I will. They announced Okada vs. Strong and also Nakamura & Lethal teaming up together. Glad Okada's in a singles match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Add me to the group willing to watch a series


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rah said:


> Throw some series at me, FF.


I would, but I'm afraid that you've probably seen every wrestling match under the sun. Certainly everything from North America, Europe, and Asia. And if wrestling exists in South Africa, there too.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Try me. 



EDIT: if anyone is wondering about spending $8.99 on the NWA Classics network, it's more than worth it.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Cena/Cesaro was pretty fucking awesome and better than their match last week. Felt like a big deal, how can they not do something good with Cesaro after this? The man is fucking incredible. Talking of incredible...John Cena. The moment after Cesaro kicks out of a powerbomb is absolute perfection that nobody in the world can replicate, not even close. Good near falls in this one, great sequences, two of the top 3 guys in the company putting in world class performances. Couldn't ask for much else from these two. Not as good as their match last year, but not too far off either despite it being completely different.

edit: do people really like this Rusev/Lana/Dolph storyline? It's fucking awful. Why are we supposed to cheer Ziggler in this situation? What the fuck is going on here.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Bubz said:


> Cena/Cesaro was pretty fucking awesome and better than their match last week. Felt like a big deal, how can they not do something good with Cesaro after this? The man is fucking incredible. Talking of incredible...John Cena. *The moment after Cesaro kicks out of a powerbomb is absolute perfection that nobody in the world can replicate, not even close.* Good near falls in this one, great sequences, two of the top 3 guys in the company putting in world class performances. Couldn't ask for much else from these two. Not as good as their match last year, but not too far off either despite it being completely different.
> 
> edit: do people really like this Rusev/Lana/Dolph storyline? It's fucking awful. Why are we supposed to cheer Ziggler in this situation? What the fuck is going on here.


Is that the one where John got tangled up in Cesaro's foot and still went for the cover in that position anyway? If so, I'm not sure what you're praising. The fact that he got exasperated with the ref to cover it? If so, that was quick thinking, but done out of necessity, and I felt that he actually drew more attention to the fact that he flubbed up. And I do think that a lot of others would have done that, because the ref WAS slow (due to it to not really being a pin).

I also remember a moment that irritated me, which was when Cena got out of a long cross face sequence and then just did the STF like nothing. I wouldn't mind it if his face showed ANYTHING. Either anguish, or fiery energy, like he was "fighting spirit" out of it. His face was just blank. It was awful, and the worst example of doing a bunch of big moves just to do it.

I guess the reason why the nearfalls didn't work for me, Jack Evans, was because I didn't find it conceivable for Cesaro to win two weeks from Battleground. Sometimes even if I know someone won't win, the nearfalls are done so well that I still buy into it. Not so in this case. At first with Kevin out there I thought that there was a chance for it to be a triple threat, but the more kickouts that came, the even less likely that became (it was obvious that the nearfalls were done simply to get a "big match" reaction).

It's cool if you & everyone else love it, and I hate to be the "raining on the parade" type because I know that's annoying. Just feel differently.


As for Dolph/Rusev/Lana....it's terrible, in that they've ruined Lana's character, and Dolph didn't need this shit. There are so many different, smarter, ways they could have gone about this, if they were determined to do so.

Having said that, I still often find the segments enjoyable although cringeworthy, mainly due to Rusev taking it and running with it. He's one of the best examples I've seen of rising above the material.

Every line Dolph says is cringeworthy, and is like the opposite of how a face should be acting.

I think that Lana is doing a nice job of still clinging to a little bit of that old Lananess through it all, and she knows how to perform to the audience, but it's just so not who her character should be. 

Vince screwing with something that already works, for his own wet dream. Awful.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rah said:


> Throw some series at me, FF.



Seen all of the Pillman/Windhams? It takes like 25 minutes to watch them all if you skip WarGames.



LilOlMe said:


> Heads up everyone: In another thread someone said that NJPW World is free from the 8th to the 17th.


Cooool. Question to everybody: is this something I can watch on a PS3 like WWE's?


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Cooool. Question to everybody: is this something I can watch on a PS3 like WWE's?


No, to my knowledge, they don't have any apps.

But you could just run an HDMI cord from your computer to your tv, and it'll work fine & easily that way. It also works on phones if you just open up the website on your phone.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

It's a 9 day thing so I won't mind just watching from my comp, I guess. Gonna sign up the next couple days and try to blast through whatever I want to see that would be difficult to otherwise get a hold of. There's a bunch of 80s ugly as fuck handhelds that used to exist on this random Japanese site that there's a tiny part of me believing they could have. They had a pre-Liger Liger v. Owen Hart, pre-Liger Liger v. Fujiwara, and Fujiwara v. other guys and shit like that might just be gone forever.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> It's a 9 day thing so I won't mind just watching from my comp, I guess. Gonna sign up the next couple days and try to blast through whatever I want to see that would be difficult to otherwise get a hold of. There's a bunch of 80s ugly as fuck handhelds that used to exist on this random Japanese site that there's a tiny part of me believing they could have. They had a pre-Liger Liger v. Owen Hart, pre-Liger Liger v. Fujiwara, and Fujiwara v. other guys and shit like that might just be gone forever.


It's the 8th in Japan now, so it should be free now. Don't quote me on that, though.

Here's the link to the English site for anyone who wants it:
https://njpwworld.com/auth?lang=en

Note that it'll start in English for the registration, but then it goes to Japanese. Just click "English" on the very bottom of the page to navigate the site in English. You may need to log on again when you do that.

If you need any help, let me know. It was confusing at first, but once I got the hang of it, it was easy to search for things. 

I also recommend playing videos in SD rather than HD. The quality is still good, and there's no buffering when you do that (usually videos don't buffer for me at all, but NJPW's HD ones do for some reason. Or maybe because I was watching it on a day when everyone was trying to watch Dominion..).


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

LilOlMe said:


> I guess the reason why the nearfalls didn't work for me, Jack Evans, was because I didn't find it conceivable for Cesaro to win two weeks from Battleground. Sometimes even if I know someone won't win, the nearfalls are done so well that I still buy into it. Not so in this case. At first with Kevin out there I thought that there was a chance for it to be a triple threat, but the more kickouts that came, the even less likely that became (it was obvious that the nearfalls were done simply to get a "big match" reaction).


The nearfalls (really just the one from the Neutralizer) worked so well for me because I thought there might be a _slight_ chance that Cesaro would win and we would get a 3-way at Battleground. That way they could've stretched this out even more and Cena vs. Owens III could happen at Summerslam. Sometime I just hope WWE can switch their plans and shake things up, but it doesn't happen too often.  That and I just REALLY wanted Cesaro to win. I mean, why else have him face Cena two weeks in a row, ya know?

Kevin Owens is feuding with too many people right now. :lol Joe, Cena, Cesaro, Balor(?), etc. Still don't know if we'll even see him in NXT anymore. Hopefully we get a proper Joe vs. Owens, even though it feels like both Joe and that feud are taking a huuuuuge backseat to others. We'll see though.


----------



## -Skullbone- (Sep 20, 2006)

LilOlMe said:


> I guess the reason why the nearfalls didn't work for me, Jack Evans, was because I didn't find it conceivable for Cesaro to win two weeks from Battleground. Sometimes even if I know someone won't win, the nearfalls are done so well that I still buy into it. Not so in this case. At first with Kevin out there I thought that there was a chance for it to be a triple threat, but the more kickouts that came, the even less likely that became (it was obvious that the nearfalls were done simply to get a "big match" reaction.


This is an interesting point actually. The purpose of the match for you was largely compromised by the 'format'. I guess one question I have is if you'd be a little less critical of it if Cesaro won and probably make it a triple threat?

The match was good. My memory's a little too hazy to recall the other two encounters to draw comparisons, but I did enjoy how this one was structured for the most part. Did anyone see anything 'new' showcased in this one though, or was it a similar blueprint to the other two?

I think one of the tragedies of modern WWE is how we'll very likely miss seeing Cesaro and Lesnar in a genuine one-on-one. I know I previously touted Sheamus as being one of the select few that could bring a new edge to a Brock-themed match, but this is a situation where the company has booked something to look like a unique match up that people could be very interested in watching. 

I say that because although he has been made to look like a goofy stooge at times the company should be commended on putting over Cesaro's insane feats of power. It's obviously due to the guy's ability to perform the sort of stuff he can but their fans are well and truly buying into it as well. He is one of the very few who can very believably take it to Brock at his own game- something most wouldn't think possible unless they saw it with their own eyes.

That last part is very much apart of Cesaro's drawcard. For people who might not be aware or particularly knowledgeable about how good matches are built from scratch, this guy is at the very least a very good visual worker who's aware that his abilities are his trademarks. He's not a planet-sized human like Henry or Show that worked with Lesnar primarily to show off his scary strength. The slight modesty of Cesaro's appearance (I mean that only in the context of wrestling) makes the visual possibility of Lesnar tossing him around and vice versa somewhat more humanistic even in the eyes of non-watchers.

In my ideal world and with things considered, it would be great to see a face Cesaro and a heel champ Lesnar square off at a PPV like Summerslam or Survivor Series after working a one month program together. The elements aren't pulled from space here. There's plenty to work with. Cesaro is someone who can get everyone behind him just by wrestling; they just need to see him win more often. 

I'd have him work a spotfire program with someone and go over while the build to the Lesnar match takes place. A heel Orton is someone I'd think would be suitable (sorry Orton fans, I know you'd like him to be facing Lesnar too). The angle could be Cesaro believing he could match Brock's physicality and goading Brock and Heyman into asking if they believe it too. You already have history there with Heyman and Cesaro so the pretext is there. Heyman would do his usual thing to build the match and Brock's invincibility of course. Sometime in the weeks leading up though Cesaro does one or two things that takes Brock by surprise--something that finally plants a slight seed of doubt in his mind as to if he can actually be overpowered. A very simple, short program, but something I think could conceivably get many people interested.

There would have to be a few more measures outlines as well in my eyes. I wouldn't have them get their hands on each other until the PPV. This is meant to be a genuine spectacle of course! I wouldn't have Cesaro cut particularly long promos either, but he will have to win people over more than what he's done on the stick until now. Heyman will be the most important figure in promoting this so he'll do the majority of the groundwork there. 

That's all in my head though of course. I'd just love to see this match eventuate one day and for the purpose of actually helping build Cesaro into a genuine commodity, rather than the fodder most think he's destined to remain.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

LilOlMe said:


> Is that the one where John got tangled up in Cesaro's foot and still went for the cover in that position anyway? If so, I'm not sure what you're praising. The fact that he got exasperated with the ref to cover it? If so, that was quick thinking, but done out of necessity, and I felt that he actually drew more attention to the fact that he flubbed up. And I do think that a lot of others would have done that, because the ref WAS slow (due to it to not really being a pin).
> 
> I also remember a moment that irritated me, which was when Cena got out of a long cross face sequence and then just did the STF like nothing. I wouldn't mind it if his face showed ANYTHING. Either anguish, or fiery energy, like he was "fighting spirit" out of it. His face was just blank. It was awful, and the worst example of doing a bunch of big moves just to do it.
> 
> ...


That is the moment I was referring to but not the cover itself. Cenas reaction to the cover and the count is what I'm talking about. Showing frustration because he couldn't get a good cover and taking it out on the ref because he can't get the win. His facial expressions in that moment show so much. I defy you to show me a modern wrestler who portrays so much in small moments like that. He does similar stuff in a lot of matches now but this one was incredible. The water mark is still his reaction to the AA in the Punk MITB match though because at the time that was totally out of character for him. He might be in danger of over doing it I guess but as long as it still works in the context of the match I will always love it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Cesaro from RAW recently was really good stuff. It doesn't touch their match from Feb of last year, though. At least it gave Cesaro a definitive singles match on the year & added to Cena's already good catalog. The only issue I had w/the current match was it had NOTHING of what Cesaro is atm, a babyface w/new sides to his game. He shows that vs Harper & Bo Dallas in those matches, but gets put up in a big match w/emphasis and doesn't do any of the new stuff on his biggest stage yet. Was a deflating moment. Nothing that held the match back as far as doing anything wrong. More of being letdown in a personal department. Granted, expecting it wasn't an error on my part. He's been working that way for the past month.

Agreed about Cena's facial reactions when things don't go his way in matches, after he appears certain that it's a lock. They're terrific. Favorite part about the rematch w/Owens was when he went over to the ref to argue the 2 count on the first FU.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Meltzer's ratings for Dominion:

AJ Styles vs. Okada - ****3/4
Goto vs. Nakamura - ****1/2
Kushida vs. Kenny Omega - ****1/2
Shibata vs. Sakuraba - ****
Makabe vs. Ishii - ***3/4
Young Bucks vs. reDRagon vs. Romero & Barreta - ***1/2
Opening Ten Man Tag - ***1/4
Tanahashi vs. Yano - **3/4
Karl Anderson & Doc Gallows vs. Michael Bennett & Matt Taven - **1/2
Naito & Homna vs. Takahashi & Bad Luck Fale - **1/2


Meltzer's Beast in the East ratings:

Chris Jericho vs. Neville - ****
Finn Balor vs. Kevin Owens - ****1/4
John Cena & Dolph Ziggler vs. Kane & Bad News Barrett - **1/4


ETA:
Fan polls from him on this:


Spoiler: spoiler



*WWE BEAST FROM THE EAST POLL RESULTS

Thumbs up 132 (90.4%)

Thumbs down 0 (00.0%)

In the middle 14 (09.6%)

BEST MATCH POLL*

Finn Balor vs. Kevin Owens 134

Chris Jericho vs. Neville 11

*WORST MATCH POLL*

Nikki vs. Paige vs. Snuka 73

Cena & Ziggler vs. Kane & Barrett 59

*NEW JAPAN DOMINION POLL RESULTS

Thumbs up 141 (98.6%)

Thumbs down 0 (00.0%)

In the middle 2 (01.4%)*

*BEST MATCH POLL*

Kazuchika Okada vs. A.J. Styles 83

Katsuyori Shibata vs. Kazushi Sakuraba 27

Hirooki Goto vs. Shinsuke Nakamura 12

Kushida vs. Kenny Omega 11

*WORST MATCH POLL*

Anderson & Gallows vs. Bennett & Taven 64

Naito & Honma vs. Fale & Takahashi 15

Bucks vs. Fish & O'Reilly vs. Roppongi Vice 8


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

How anyone gave that Makabe/Ishii match more than one star is beyond me.

Anyone ever try watching ECW's television show? I tried to watch the first episode of their supposed best year (1995), and the first 40 minutes were dedicated to music videos.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

^That match seems really divisive. Actually haven't seen it yet.


Forgot Meltzer's rating for this week's Cena vs. Cesaro match:
****1/4



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Kevin Owens is feuding with too many people right now. :lol Joe, Cena, Cesaro, Balor(?), etc. Still don't know if we'll even see him in NXT anymore. Hopefully we get a proper Joe vs. Owens, even though it feels like both Joe and that feud are taking a huuuuuge backseat to others. We'll see though.


Got tickets to the ROH event! Heard the crowd in Brooklyn last year was super annoying in an OTT way, so I hope that's not the case.

Actually, I could see Joe vs. Owens happening the night before Summerslam. That's probably the biggest match they could do to sell tickets, and why not wrap up Owens' run that way?

I also like your Cesaro idea of him working the show. I could see them bringing in a bunch of WWE guys to sell tickets.

I just read an article which stated that they're setting it up for 5,000 seats, but can add more if there's a demand.



-Skullbone- said:


> This is an interesting point actually. The purpose of the match for you was largely compromised by the 'format'. I guess one question I have is if you'd be a little less critical of it if Cesaro won and probably make it a triple threat?


No. Don't have an investment in Cesaro, and it wouldn't have changed my problems with the match. If he won, it'd be like "oh, I was wrong about the result", but it wouldn't have made the nearfalls more impactful for me. 

As for Cesaro's future, the fact that they don't even have anything for him on Battleground says a lot. If they were smart, they'd do something on RAW next week that enables him to make it a triple threat match for the US Title at Battleground.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I found some 96 Hardcore TV yesterday I was going to grab b/c it had Scorpio I hadn't seen. I'll probably watch some if WWE puts it on the network.

edit - @ff


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

-Skullbone- said:


> I'd have him work a spotfire program with someone and go over while the build to the Lesnar match takes place. A heel Orton is someone I'd think would be suitable (sorry Orton fans, I know you'd like him to be facing Lesnar too). The angle could be Cesaro believing he could match Brock's physicality and goading Brock and Heyman into asking if they believe it too. You already have history there with Heyman and Cesaro so the pretext is there. Heyman would do his usual thing to build the match and Brock's invincibility of course. Sometime in the weeks leading up though Cesaro does one or two things that takes Brock by surprise--something that finally plants a slight seed of doubt in his mind as to if he can actually be overpowered. A very simple, short program, but something I think could conceivably get many people interested.


Speaking of Orton & Cesaro, I don't know why they can't just do a program between the two of them now, since they both don't have anything to do.

Orton works best when inspired by a "newer" guy, at least until the program gets driven into the ground (goes without saying that the WWE should avoid this). There are so many guys that they could do this with with Orton. Don't know why on Earth they insist on this Orton vs. Sheamus program, when there's no reason for it, no need for it, and I don't think there's a single person in the world who wants to see it right now. I doubt either wrestler gives a shit.

WWE is so frustrating, because the Reigns vs. Bray program started off so promising. So much stuff they could have done with Bray and Reigns' family, and instead they just do...this? If it's a longer program planned, and they intend to bring this stuff in later, I apologize. I doubt it, though. 

Just such a waste of all of the talent they have.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

LilOlMe said:


> Got tickets to the ROH event!
> 
> Actually, I could see Joe vs. Owens happening the night before Summerslam. That's probably the biggest match they could do to sell tickets, and why not wrap up Owens' run that way?
> 
> ...


Hell yeah! Hope you enjoy it. Not sure if you saw but they added Killer Elite Squad vs. War Machine as well. Whole bunch of tag matches right now. Still waiting for AJ Styles to be announced because idk where else he would be, but who knows. Just seems odd for the Bucks, Time Splitters, Nakamura, KES, & Okada to be on the show and AJ isn't. He's wrestling in the UK on August 28th and that's all I know of atm. Strong vs. Okada should be fucking AWESOME though.

-----------------

Makes more sense if they're aiming for 5,000 tickets, especially with all the wrestling and all the money people are already spending that weekend. I'd be all for Joe vs. Owens, but then what do you do with Balor? If Itami is somehow magically healthy and ready to go in the next 6 weeks then that would be perfect, but I recall reading he'll be out until October. Without him they don't really have anyone prepared for a title shot. Corbin is the only one I can think of that could get a quick push and 4 week build because Breeze has already lost to everyone.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

That would be awesome if AJ is on the card. I really, really, hope he's not in a tag, but that probably would be the case.

Yeah, actually, I think that Joe vs. Finn is the most likely scenario. I could see Owens and Cesaro fighting on the card too. Would be a nice way to resolve their little spat, and sell tickets.

I could see them using Jericho, and I think there's a strong chance they use Neville as well.

I think they're gonna sell more than 5,000 tickets. Easily, even.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Using Jericho, now THAT'S an idea. Owens vs. Cesaro, Balor vs. Joe, Enzo & The Cass winning the Tag Titles, Sasha vs. Bayley or Sasha vs. Becky II, and Jericho vs. Breeze. Now there's one hell of a card. If you wanna get even crazier, maybe run Neville against Corbin or Rhyno.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I could see them doing Balor vs. Jericho if they do Owens vs. Joe.

They could also go all out, and have an NXT vs. WWE card. That would prompt the most interest, but I don't know if Vince would go for that. He might not care if it's midcard guys that he doesn't care about.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Read an article on Bleacher Report where they said they should do Cesaro vs. Neville vs. Ambrose at Battleground in a U.S. Title #1 Contender's match. That's actually a pretty awesome idea because none of the three have anything else to do and they're all super over.

Imagine Owens vs. Ambrose at Summerslam for the U.S. Title.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I found some 96 Hardcore TV yesterday I was going to grab b/c it had Scorpio I hadn't seen. I'll probably watch some if WWE puts it on the network.


Do you remember the 30 minute Cyberslam '96 match w/Scorpio vs Sabu very well? Scorpio was fine in it, but I left it thinking Sabu was the man in it and why it worked out so well. It made the Best of High Flyers set and was there as a Scorpio pick and not sure why. It was WAY more of a Sabu showcase. WWE sets.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The way Dave touted Ishii/Makabe as next-level meta selling by purposefully wrestling clunky and off their game (as a means to convey Ishii as injured) led me to believe it would get 5 stars. Ludicrous argument, but I am surprised it only got that.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll probably love it if it is anything like their other two matches this year. I still get what I want from their collisions w/o finding it going into the bullshit territory. _(looking at Ishii vs Honma that went 25 minutes or whatever at New Beginning and it was dreadful)_ The notion of Ishii working w/a bum anything could be hit or miss. I won't deny. Have to wait and see how it plays out. Largely optimistic b/c Dominion tends to deliver the goods. Been that way for about the last 4 years.

Super Juniors finals & all of Dominion. I feel more behind on New Japan than that. Company has felt stalled since February so that's probably the only reason for this feeling.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> Do you remember the 30 minute Cyberslam '96 match w/Scorpio vs Sabu very well? Scorpio was fine in it, but I left it thinking Sabu was the man in it and why it worked out so well. It made the Best of High Flyers set and was there as a Scorpio pick and not sure why. It was WAY more of a Sabu showcase. WWE sets.


I honestly barely remember it even though it's only been three years since I saw on the yearbook. Like I don't even remember what I really thought of it. I would've remembered if I loved or disliked it, though. Guess I just thought it was OK.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

w/your original subject being Scorpio's '96, it sort of confirms we're on the same wavelength that it wasn't his most monumental outing.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I watched the Shibata vs Sakuraba match last night after seeing it pimped, really terrific stuff. I'm not a fan of Shibata at all to be honest, and I've never seen Sakuraba wrestle before this, but I really enjoyed the story they went with and how they executed it. The moment that hooked me was when Shibata was on his knees getting kicked repeatedly in the chest but refusing to bow down and showing "fighting spirit". I was all ready to call the match horseshit because I figured Shibata was just gonna keep taking kicks, fire up, no sell everything, and then go on a rampage kicking Sakuraba all over the place. Nope, Shibata takes his fill of kicks then finally collapses on the mat in a heap. That's what hooked me, Shibata showing vulnerability. He never seems to do that, all his matches I see generally feature the same spot of him begging his opponent on to keep hitting him before he just starts giving it right back to them like it had no effect. Glad to see he either learned his lesson or had someone tell him that pro wrestling is an absolutely pointless and futile exercise if you aren't going to sell. Selling is the only thing that differentiates it between MMA.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Are you open for more Sakuraba goodness? That man is a gift from God.

If we're still talking about Scorpio's 96, I'm assuming we are all in agreement that his match with Douglas was terrific. I think he had a great match with Jericho too. And then Vince McMahon sees this and turns him into Flash Funk :lol


----------



## -Skullbone- (Sep 20, 2006)

LilOlMe said:


> Speaking of Orton & Cesaro, I don't know why they can't just do a program between the two of them now, since they both don't have anything to do.
> 
> Orton works best when inspired by a "newer" guy, at least until the program gets driven into the ground (goes without saying that the WWE should avoid this). There are so many guys that they could do this with with Orton. Don't know why on Earth they insist on this Orton vs. Sheamus program, when there's no reason for it, no need for it, and I don't think there's a single person in the world who wants to see it right now. I doubt either wrestler gives a shit.
> 
> ...


Yup. The idea of using someone like Orton this way, who I think has reached his ceiling, would be ideal for someone newer to the main event scene and who they have a genuine plan for. From the looks of it he may be in this role to help Sheamus get re-established again. However, despite quite liking him myself, I don't see droves packing arenas and tuning in to see Sheamus as a potential top guy again. And if it's anything like past cases with MITB holders he won't be the one getting the wins as they'll think he's 'immune' from looking bad for some reason.

The last part is one of the biggest issues I have right with WWE. They absolutely struggle to capitalize on when someone's hot or not because it doesn't fit with their (or more than likely Vince's) loose plans. Does anyone think that Sheamus will really become anymore of a bigger player now as a heel, after all the time spent on him in the past? Do people really want to keep swallowing the idea that if you have the briefcase you won't look bad from losing all the time? 

On the flipside, you have someone like Cesaro who is one of the few that can get hot pretty easily without much creative investment. They wouldn't want him getting too much attention though because he doesn't fit their initial plans. They just seem to misjudge the moments when to strike and when not to these days.

I know, I know, all easy to say in heresay from a random internet guy. These guys are in business of trying to be the best though. You have to hold them to those expectations.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

It's probably an unpopular opinion, i just don't see Cena/Cesaro as a MOTYC match.  Thier Feb match from last year was so much better IMO, this one i didn't enjoy as much TBH. Could have been the million pin attempts, i did think they 'over spammed' them to a degree.

I guess I just didn't think as highly of the match as most did. :shrug

Also had to LOL at Cena's facial expression on Cesaro's first STF attempt. It was as blank as you could get.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Sakuraba vs. Nakamura from Wrestle Kingdom '13 is _extremely_ high on goodness. He and Shibata also had a few surprisingly entertaining tag matches against Wataru Inoue, with first Goto and then Makabe (or maybe the other way around) as his partners. Wataru is as good or better at playing "utterly hopeless underdog who has no idea he's outmatched" as Ishii was at playing "tough-as-nails underdog who's going to make you fight him as hard as you can before you beat him," so watching him try to stand up to the Gracie Hunter like they're in the same league, and then get decimated, is a joy.


----------



## TomTom94 (Oct 18, 2013)

full list of matches and segments for the best of WCW nitro volume 3



> DISC 1
> 
> 3-Time, 3-Time, 3-Time
> 
> ...


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

This is a bit disappointing tbh:










No Joe vs. Owens.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

^They've got to come stronger than that.

They're really lucky that Finn's entrances are so grand. I've read people wanting to go for that reason alone.



Obfuscation said:


> Do you remember the 30 minute Cyberslam '96 match w/Scorpio vs Sabu very well? Scorpio was fine in it, but I left it thinking Sabu was the man in it and why it worked out so well. It made the Best of High Flyers set and was there as a Scorpio pick and not sure why. It was WAY more of a Sabu showcase. WWE sets.


I have that DVD, so I'm gonna check out that match based on your recommendation.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I watched the Shibata vs Sakuraba match last night after seeing it pimped, really terrific stuff. I'm not a fan of Shibata at all to be honest, and I've never seen Sakuraba wrestle before this, but I really enjoyed the story they went with and how they executed it. The moment that hooked me was when Shibata was on his knees getting kicked repeatedly in the chest but refusing to bow down and showing "fighting spirit". I was all ready to call the match horseshit because I figured Shibata was just gonna keep taking kicks, fire up, no sell everything, and then go on a rampage kicking Sakuraba all over the place. Nope, Shibata takes his fill of kicks then finally collapses on the mat in a heap. That's what hooked me, Shibata showing vulnerability. He never seems to do that, all his matches I see generally feature the same spot of him begging his opponent on to keep hitting him before he just starts giving it right back to them like it had no effect. Glad to see he either learned his lesson or had someone tell him that pro wrestling is an absolutely pointless and futile exercise if you aren't going to sell. Selling is the only thing that differentiates it between MMA.


I just read an article about some of the backstage tensions in NJPW. It contained this:


> The irony here is that despite the perception of Kidani as being a crazy, money mark, on this booking decision he was in the right. *Sakuraba and Shibata have excelled in their role as aloof shooters who have to be forced to sell for their New Japan opposition.* They would have provided fresh challengers for IWGP Heavyweight Champion Tanahashi to go against.


I've definitely seen Shibata sell well before, so I think it's a concerted effort to make it a big deal when someone really does get the better of him. 

Can of course see why some still may not like it, but he has such a presentation of, & authentic "shit is really going down" vibe, that I can totally buy him being able to brush past that all. Plus, I just like the way he responds. It's no-selling in its purest definition, but it's more like "you can't get me to maintain weakness, and now I'm gonna punish the shit out of you for even trying." 

There's a moment in the match against Kojima that I mentioned, where Kojima is chopping Shibata in a fury. Shibata is trying his best not to grimace, but grimaces creep out. His jaw is tightening, and he's holding his body position in an uptight way, conveying that it's hurting like hell, but he has too much pride to show it. His face and his body are betraying him, though (it's subtle, but little subtleties like that I love).

He then bucks up, grabs & drags Kojima by the hair while screaming in his face, and then starts beating the shit out of him. 

Like "fuck you, you can't outgun me, asshole."

Was so great. I guess I find his "no-selling" exciting and electric, and it's different from the way most guys no-sell, because it's done with a clear purpose, IMO. I've seen him collapse enough afterward, that it conveys to me that he does get hurt & weakened, but his character is one where pride and dominance are always gonna be at the forefront first.

You're going to have to _really_ work to get him to show weakness. And when you might be there, his pride is going to always have him fighting right back. Because to him, showing weakness is almost as bad as losing. It IS a loss. This is why most of his losses are more abrupt than most. 

His offense always conveys pure fire, so I guess that's what makes it more convincing that he can be less apt to show pain.

Combine all that with the way he chooses to present his character in general. His whole demeanor. Immediately leaving the ring after a win, as if the audience, the accolades, the attention, etc. mean nothing to him. It's all about inflicting punishment, expressing dominance, and getting the win.

The whole package comes together, and it's very purposeful. Again, though, I totally understand why it wouldn't be for everyone. I just think he's different from most no-selly guys, and it works, and it's calculated.

I also think that the way he fires back at his opponents is a _form_ of selling for his character, because he's acknowledging that their offense is forcing him to step his game up. He doesn't do it for everyone. This is very meta, though, and might sound like that Dave clip posted a page or so ago, so whatever, lol.

On a side note, he's also agile as hell. Shockingly so. I'm amazed at how fast he can run with little room.

Dude is just all-around explosive in general. That's what I like about him. 


Are there any parts of this week's Smackdown that I should watch?


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Obfuscation said:


> Do you remember the 30 minute Cyberslam '96 match w/Scorpio vs Sabu very well? Scorpio was fine in it, but I left it thinking Sabu was the man in it and why it worked out so well. It made the Best of High Flyers set and was there as a Scorpio pick and not sure why. It was WAY more of a Sabu showcase. WWE sets.


Watched this. I don't think I've ever seen Scorpio before, so I was impressed by him. Just judging by his body type, I didn't expect for him to wrestle the way that he did. He's actually pretty clean, and didn't just wrestle like a hoss.

Sabu had a nice babyface performance, and the match wasn't really what I expected, in a positive way.

Enjoyable watch, thanks. I finally opened the DVD due to you. Is there anything else on there you'd recommend, beyond the obvious like Rey/Eddie?



Bruce L said:


> Sakuraba vs. Nakamura from Wrestle Kingdom '13 is _extremely_ high on goodness.


Watched this due to your rec. I LOVE how they started slowly with pure wrestling, to build up to them just going at each other. Well done. I wish the match was longer, though.

Gonna watch those tags you recommended this weekend.


Watched Shibata vs. Akiyama 8/4/05, due to it being recommended by a couple of people on a list of Shibata matches on Reddit. Also saw on Wiki that it's one of Shibata's most famous matches.

Shit was tough as hell. Total war & car crash. Someone described this as a hate-filled brawl, and that's accurate. They blurred the lines between reality & kayfabe beautifully. I see some people thinking that Akiyama really was pissed. 

That table spot was freakin' vicious. They didn't remove ANYTHING. 

As for Shibata's selling, this plays into what I was saying. The way he chose to sell in this match was unique, and completely fits his character.



Spoiler: spoiler



He kept it going until he didn't have anything left. He made it a point to slooowly kick his legs like on a cycle while getting pinned, as if he didn't have the energy or effort to kick out anymore. Akiyama got him, and that visual was great.

Then Shibata laid there on the mat with his eyes rolled back in his head.

A bit afterward, he tries to challenge Akiyama, but can't muster the energy at all. It all looks so desperate, but his fucking pride won't let him just let Akiyama walk off. It's like a gasping last breath that goes nowhere.

It's fucking great, and he sold it all perfectly, and he put over Akiyama.

He stays true to his character, and he does sell, but it's in his own way. Consistent with not doing so until someone really _gets_ his ass.

Btw, I've also noticed that he usually is still "almost" kicking out while getting pinned (not slowly with no energy like this). That tells me that there is a conscious decision between him & the office to have a character that seems really hard to weaken.



Great watch.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Glad you liked Nakamura/Sakuraba. For me it's a top 10 match from probably the best in-ring year of the decade so far; I can't imagine any other "big" match going that short and still feeling completely satisfying. 

The Laughter 7 tags aren't nearly on that level, but they are a lot of fun due to the aforementioned Sakuraba/Wataru credibility gap that Wataru has no idea is there, and in the Goto one(s?) for the Goto/Shibata exchanges that pave the way for their awesomely stiff singles series.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I didn't remember anything about the High Flyers WWE set. Looking at the match listing it's so friggin' random. They have the wrong Tajiri/Guido/Crazy on there. ECW one from 2000 is IMO the best US 3-way. Maybe not a High Flyer match though. More like a "hold on a sec Tajiri really is the greatest wrestler of all time" match.



> Chavo Guerrero vs. Jamie Noble
> SmackDown April 18, 2008


watched this just b/c. Is Jamie Noble basically a shorter Chris Benoit? There was this one bit of Noble offense that left my mouth open because he did exactly what Benoit would in that situation and his mannerism even looked the same. Noble's a fucking great bumper as well and I only saw him take a couple in this. Match was good. One thing, though - this had no high flying in it. :lmao Only the frog splash. No excuse for leaving off the ECW 3-way now. Chavo actually had a pretty great 08, didn't he? Punk feud, was in the ONS cane match, Bourne matches (w/ one being incredible), stuff like this, that Michaels/Flair cage might be good, etc. Even Chavo haters adore the Main match with Kane. I want to watch 2008 ECW (got it all on disc), but I feel like SmackDown would be worth thinking about seeing in some kind of depth too.

Scorpio is great. Had about as good a 1993 and 1996 as anybody in the US. Dude's almost never in anything bad. 

What do people think of the 1996 ECW four corners? I loved it, but it gets a shit tone of flack for it's horrible saves and shit. Almost afraid that if I re-watch it I'll see what's so shitty about it.


I totally forgot to sign up for NJ World. I should make tomorrow's free time devoted to watching everything I want on there (if it's still free then).


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I love that four corners match too, but it does seem like a match that the wrestling critics would dislike. There are quite a few botches/missteps in it, but the way that Pitbull #2 and Shane Douglas wrestled the last 20 minutes of that match was just mesmerizing. Like they weren't supposed to be that good, but man it was awesome. Jericho has gone on record to say that this match was awful. I beg to differ, although Jericho was the weakest performer of the four in the match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

@LilOlMe, The lucha 6-man from Bash at the Beach '97, HBK/Shelton, Mysterio/Ultimo Dragon, Guerrero/Malenko, Pillman/Wright, and Guerrero/Kidman I all thought were really good-great back when I watched the Highest Flyers set. The whole thing is actually really fun to sit through. A few of the matches that don't standout are kept short and entertaining. Psychosis/Ultimo, Christian/Kofi, Trish/Lita, Taka/Pantera, and HBK/Vader are all good too. You should take some time and watch the whole thing someday. It'll probably expose you to a few guys you've never seen before. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

LilOlMe said:


> Watched this. I don't think I've ever seen Scorpio before, so I was impressed by him. Just judging by his body type, I didn't expect for him to wrestle the way that he did. He's actually pretty clean, and didn't just wrestle like a hoss.
> 
> Sabu had a nice babyface performance, and the match wasn't really what I expected, in a positive way.
> 
> Enjoyable watch, thanks. I finally opened the DVD due to you. Is there anything else on there you'd recommend, beyond the obvious like Rey/Eddie?


Absolutely. Let me rec via disc order:

*D1:*

Ricky Steamboat vs Brian Pillman - WCW Halloween Havoc 1992

La Parka, Psychosis, & Villano IV vs Juventud Guerrera, Hector Garza, & Lizmark Jr. - WCW Bash at the Beach 1997 

Ultimo Dragon vs Rey Mysterio Jr - WCW World War 3 1996

*Bourne vs Ryder is a nice showcase match for Bourne, if interested. The rest is god awful.

*D2:*

Watch this entire disc. It's all good/great. Muta vs Sting & 1-2-3 Kid vs Hakushi are :mark:

*D3:*

Shawn Michaels vs Vader - WWF SummerSlam 1996

Taka Michinoku vs Pantera - WWF No Way Out 1998 (this is w/o a doubt the best junior style match seen in WWF until Mysterio shows up.)

Rob Van Dam vs Sabu - ECW Guilty as Charged 2000 (another Sabu match I liked. iirc. They got that right, at least)

Jeff Hardy vs Umaga - WWE RAW 1/7/08

Billy Kidman vs Juventud Guerrera - WCW World War 3 1998


So true, the majority of the set is worth the watch. I basically wanted to spell that out & just kind of nix out the bad/mediocre stuff that isn't worth your time. I've gone back through this set a bunch of times. Tons of fun w/what is has to offer.


----------



## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

I swear Rey/Juvi had a million matches in WCW and Rey won everytime.:lol JUVENTUD GUERRERA, NEVER SURRENDER was the man but he was Rey's bitch in WCW.

Find me a match where Juvi actually beats Rey. Especially clean. I'll be legit shocked.


----------



## tboneangle (Jan 14, 2009)

What's everyone's opinions on the main Angle vs Benoit Matches? 

For me

WM17- ****1/2
Ultimate Submission -****1/4
2/3 Falls- ****
Cage- ****3/4
Unforgiven 02 - ****3/4
Royal Rumble 03- *****

Sucks that this rivalry wil never get its proper due.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My opinion on the Angle/Benoit series is... they are all either horrible or average matches aside from the Ultimate Submission match which is awesome.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Headliner said:


> I swear Rey/Juvi had a million matches in WCW and Rey won everytime.:lol JUVENTUD GUERRERA, NEVER SURRENDER was the man but he was Rey's bitch in WCW.
> 
> Find me a match where Juvi actually beats Rey. Especially clean. I'll be legit shocked.


:lmao

Juventud's second interferes to give Juvie the win (he's heel so...)





Juvie no-sells a powerbomb to reverse into a pin (well, that is clean, if a little stupid)





Referee fuckery






Juventud had a couple more wins in WCW, I think, not sure they're clean. Wouldn't be more than _a couple_; literally. I'd assume that's down to Rey being portrayed as the king of the high-paced Lucha style that was imported, with more impressive spots, and, thus, shouldn't be losing. They hot-potatoed the WWA title a handful of times in Mexico, and are each other's career rivals so win-trading was a bit more expected (even if it's standard Lucha booking nonsense that lead to the falls and Rey still buried Juvie's ass).

Poor Psicosis, though. He lost to both. :mj2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Cal's World said:


> My opinion on the Angle/Benoit series is... they are all either horrible or average matches aside from the Ultimate Submission match which is awesome.


Pending the rewatch on Ultimate Submission, I agree w/this.

The Judgment Day match :lmao


----------



## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Yeah it always seemed like the order of the division was:

1)Rey
2)Juvi
3)Psicosis

Rey/Juvi rivalry was so great. I really wish they expanded on that rivalry in WWE when Juvi showed up instead of putting him in Mexicool group. Typical WWE foolishness.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Pardon racial implications, I enjoyed the Mexicools. But Juvi was p. washed by that point. Should have used Psicosis better. That's for sure.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

If y'all think Rey/Juvi/Psic is bad go watch all of the Rey/Ultimo Dragons. :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Is that b/c Ultimo had his number?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

There are genuine debates over whether or not some of them are squash matches. :lmao From what I remember Rey barely gets any shit in any of them. And then loses.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

funny you say that i just finished Rey/Dragon from Spring Stampede; I'm still wondering why Dragon kept pulling him up at two in a robber match that has had 0 build. Also Rey died like 12 times in 12 minutes 

Also







:lmao










DEATH!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I actually still like WW3 '96 despite it being 99% Ultimo, regardless if that was the intended plan or not :lmao

The Spring Stampede match didn't hold up last time so Cleavage's point is double in hilarity rn.


----------



## Perfect Poster (Apr 26, 2008)

I'm not nearly as versed in wrestling as I once was, but I was able to watch a few matches just a bit ago:

Survivor Series 02 EC: ***1/2

A fun match. RVD and Jericho were the best thing about the match. Jericho continuing to shout "I'm king of the world" or "cmon [wrestler], get your ass up". Lived up to the dangerous build that they were pushing. Everyone got some spots in and for a multi man match the action was pretty solid. 

Summer slam 03 EC: **1/2

This seemed like two matches: the first 10ish minutes with HBK, Jericho, and Orton, and then once Goldberg came in. The first 15 minutes just seemed to be built for the Goldberg spot, but the entire match was just set up for the HHH/Goldberg future match. I enjoyed the five minutes Goldberg just cleaned house, but it did leave a sour taste in my mouth. Not nearly as gory as the first match, and wasn't as good overall. Might have to catch up on that payoff match now though.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> I actually still like WW3 '96 despite it being 99% Ultimo, regardless if that was the intended plan or not :lmao
> 
> The Spring Stampede match didn't hold up last time so Cleavage's point is double in hilarity rn.


It's not even that I dislike (most of) them; couple are really good IIRC. They're just very one-sided. I first watched 10+ of them in 2009 or something and seeing them in succession is like watching a "Top 120 Moves of Ultimo Dragon" youtube video. :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WCW presents Rey Mysterio vs Ultimo Dragon. _A video by InsaneDragon; copyright Youtube._


----------



## Jobbers wanted (Apr 9, 2015)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Agree to disagree. I have maybe 10-12 wrestling matches actually saved to my computer to pull up and watch at any time. 8 of them are Danielson matches: Danielson/McGuinness 6th Anniversary, Danielson/McGuinness Driven 07, Danielson/McGuinness Unified 06, Danielson/Black New Horizons 08, Danielson/KENTA Glory by Honor 05,
> 
> 
> Please could you upload Danielson vs Black New Horizons 2008, I've been looking for the match for a long time?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i'm going to watch bad blood 2004. i'm in a 2004 mood, chose this at random


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well, just remember to stop watching before the main event .


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i'm sure another installment of hbk/hhh will be great














































:lol


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jobbers wanted said:


> The Rabid Wolverine said:
> 
> 
> > Agree to disagree. I have maybe 10-12 wrestling matches actually saved to my computer to pull up and watch at any time. 8 of them are Danielson matches: Danielson/McGuinness 6th Anniversary, Danielson/McGuinness Driven 07, Danielson/McGuinness Unified 06, Danielson/Black New Horizons 08, Danielson/KENTA Glory by Honor 05,
> ...


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Finally got around to finishing Dominion with a couple buddies a few days ago - good show. Backslide Rainmaker in this bama :mark:

I think I'd still take Shibata/Sakuraba as my MOTN, but the three of us were split - one preferred the Nakamura/Goto, and the other the main. Okada's matches, for me, never seem to reach the tipping point of tension. I never believed for a second that AJ had him.

The tag (unsurprisingly) and Jr. Heavy bout (more surprisingly) did nothing for me. You just can't sell that hard and then move through your offense at full speed. Safe to say it was token, and it sort of ruined the match for me, even though I like both KUSHIDA and Omega.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Balor/Owens (Beast In The East) was MOTN for me, and is a strong MOTYC, IMO.

Owens plays such a good fucking heel, esp in this match, he was excellent. Great damn match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Really hope Balor's Championship run doesn't fizzle out once he stops working w/Owens. b/c his WWE stint hasn't been very engaging. Owens has been his one constant; giving him two matches that are worth seeing.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Agree with ^^^ in regards to Balor. Hasn't really blown me away thus far, apart from the Owens stuff as you said.

I need some Raven recs. Just watched his two triple threat matches (Uncensored 98', WM 17) and feel like watching some more. No Scotty Flamingo or Polo, just Raven.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

vs DDP - Spring Stampede 1998
vs Goldberg - Nitro following Spring Stampede 1998 (believe it was 4/20)
vs Chris Benoit - Souled Out 1998/Nitro 3/16/98
w/Perry Saturn vs Chris Benoit/Dean Malenko - Spring Stampede 1999
vs Tommy Dreamer - ECW Wrestlepalooza 1997


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Obfuscation said:


> vs DDP - Spring Stampede 1998
> vs Goldberg - Nitro following Spring Stampede 1998 (believe it was 4/20)
> vs Chris Benoit - Souled Out 1998
> w/Perry Saturn vs Chris Benoit/Dean Malenko - Spring Stampede 1999


Co-signed. Also, vs. Chris Jericho (Halloween Havoc '98), and I seem to remember the barbed wire match vs. the Sandman and the double chain match with Stevie vs. the Pit Bulls being fairly well-regarded ECW classics, for whatever that's worth to you today.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I think Balor having a program with Corbin would benefit both guys. Corbin looked better in person against Rhino than most of the stuff I've seen from him on TV. He can work and he's got good size but he doesn't seem very charismatic. Kinda just stands there like Swagger did when he was World Heavyweight Champ. Of course, Joe will likely be in line for a title shot long before Baron would.  Hopefully his title reign is long enough to the point that Itami makes a comeback and says Balor stole his opportunity and his lifelong dream and all that. I liked their match from Wrestlemania Axxess.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

How can we brush aside the Raven/Punk wars? Excellent stuff. That dog collar match in particular is a great example of how to put over both competitors in a match without taking anything away from anyone.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

How can we brush aside that Mark Henry is a face this week? :lmao No one knows whether to cheer or boo him!


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

This triple threat is fucking awesome, holy shit. :mark:


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

:cesaro DA SWISS GAWD

That is all.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

That triple threat might be my new MOTY

And Rusev looks like a million bucks with Owens interference.

PLEASE WWE. Owens vs. Cesaro vs. Rusev vs. Cena at Summerslam. PLEASE! :mark:


----------



## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

Rusev vs. Cesaro vs. Owens was easily at least a 4 star match, didn't expect it to be great.

Cena vs. Rusev was better from a storied perspective though.

The triple threat was great _and_ unpredictable with the most surprising ending, but Rusev put on an awesome display in the match with Cena, Cena embodied the reason people hate him and did it well.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

****1/2 for the Rusev/Owens/Cesaro triple threat morphing into the Rusev/Cesaro singles match. Incredible. And for a change WWE remembered that it was still triple threat rules after Owens left the scene. How rare :lol

Cesaro is incredible. I've had Cena or Owens as WOTY thus far but a few more weeks at this rate and Cesaro will replace them both. A GAWD in that ring, that Swiss superman :cesaro


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I have the triple threat at ****1/4 or ****1/2. No clue. I feel like it may be the MOTY, topping Lesnar/Rollins/Cena. It was just so, so good.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

watched bad blood 2004

fell asleep during the main event :lmao


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Think it might be my WWE MOTY as well. I'll give it a rewatch soon but I had more fun watching this than any other WWE match this year- more than Reigns/Lesnar even :shrug


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

going to watch unforgiven 2002 now


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Triple threat from last night Id give ***3/4. Not a MOTYC or anything but a damn great TV match. Cesaro has been on a roll three last few weeks.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I've yet to see the Cena/Cesaro matches but that triple threat is definitely my TV MOTY.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Rusev is incredible. Then again, you put talent like Owens and Cesaro with him and he's going to flourish even more. Brilliant.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

I don't think Balor needs Owens at all:lol I take it as a given that Balor can work a quality program with any heel. He can underdog as the unpainted Clark Kent, and get suited when the odds against him call for it. 

You know he's going to have a good match with anyone, and great matches with great wrestlers. How many great matches can he pull out of good wrestlers remains to be seen perhaps, at least in the WWE, but I'm ready to find out.

Having that alter ego/whatcha-ma-jigger changes the game - wrestling needs that. It's wrestling, buddy. Face paint and masks are cool. Robes and spikey shoulderpads - flair. Balor has it. Creatively, they could makes several thing work as a character, and credit where it's due, they put the resources in to tell the full story. Usually it's a line in a promo or an online article. A slower play is works better for me, esp since the foundation is laid w/Itami. After all, Balor took his spot in the tournament when he was injured. Itami says he knows who did it, and looks none too pleased about Balor winning the title - like a man biding his time. Would :mark: for that, but we'll see how it goes. Have fairly high expectations for this, as I thought he and Owens were the most "ready" talent of the NXT 5. Crank the production to 11 and let's do the shit. 

Also, ****1/4 for last Raw's triple-threat and title match after. Rusev & Cesaro man bama4


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Bruce L said:


> Glad you liked Nakamura/Sakuraba. For me it's a top 10 match from probably the best in-ring year of the decade so far; I can't imagine any other "big" match going that short and still feeling completely satisfying.
> 
> The Laughter 7 tags aren't nearly on that level, but they are a lot of fun due to the aforementioned Sakuraba/Wataru credibility gap that Wataru has no idea is there, and in the Goto one(s?) for the Goto/Shibata exchanges that pave the way for their awesomely stiff singles series.


Watched those, as well as bunch more Shibata tags this weekend. 

The crown jewels were:
Goto/Nagata vs. Sakuraba/Shibata - April 7, 2013
Nakanishi/Nagata vs. Sakuraba/Shibata - September 29, 2013
Okada/Yoshi Hashi vs. Shibata/Goto - February 9, 2014

Every time Nagata and Sakuraba faced off it was incredible. Nagata's just great in general. IIRC, the first one was just 12 minutes of straight electricity. 

The tag against Okada was just soooo damn smart. I was dying for Okada and Shibata to face off against each other, and the whole audience was too. So the way they built up to that, and Okada's motivation for doing so was just great.

Also thought the way they blocked his clothesline was clever.

On the topic of Shibata's selling, the funniest thing is that I watched a match between him and Carl "Machine Gun" Anderson, and for some reason, Shibata was _really_ selling for him. Like, why?! lol.

Re: His tags against the Bullet Club...they block RKO's there in such a cool manner. They stop Anderson in his tracks. Why don't people do that in America? Ugh. Also liked Anderson doing an RKO from the top rope. Randy never does that.



Yeah1993 said:


> I totally forgot to sign up for NJ World. I should make tomorrow's free time devoted to watching everything I want on there (if it's still free then).


It's available through the 17th. That Marufuji/Devitt match that I said would be up your alley is on there:
http://njpwworld.com/p/s_series_00283_1_1

Funny you watched that Noble/Chavo match, btw. We must be in sync, because my eyes immediately went there when I saw the match listings for some reason.

Thank you so much to everyone who responded about the DVD. I will watch out for those matches mentioned specifically, but I think I'm going to take the advice of watching the whole thing when I have the time to do so.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That Cesaro/Rusev/Owens Triple Threat is my WWE MOTY. It wasn't perfect, but it was the most "war-like" feeling WWE match I've seen in quite some time. 

Figured Rusev would win, because he was the only one who hadn't gotten a shot at Cena recently, but it had me into it anyway, because there was such great storytelling going on.

Owens was fucking great with his "I don't need this!!!" I don't know, it was just one of the most authentic seeming heel "back off" performances. He didn't look like a coward at all. More like he'd just had enough and "fuck all of you!"

Was so great.

That spinning uppercut from Cesaro was shot from the perfect angle, and looked great with Cesaro's height.

Rusev was such a freakin' stud. Love the way the story continued on to the next match. 

John put over the three well on commentary.

The cannon ball spot was great too.

Just really well done, and there was a consistency and thought put into the whole thing that you don't usually see in the WWE, especially for a seemingly thrown together match that takes you by surprise.

Somewhere between **** 1/4 - **** 1/2. Probably more toward the former for the actual match, but the whole storyline with the match that happens afterward takes it up to the latter rating, I think.


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

There's a Nagata/Sakuraba singles match from 10/14/13 that's pretty damn swanky in much the same way as the Nakamura match, though not quite as good.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Hopefully his title reign is long enough to the point that Itami makes a comeback and says Balor stole his opportunity and his lifelong dream and all that. I liked their match from Wrestlemania Axxess.


That Balor/Itami match is Balor's best match in NXT, IMO, if not for the most recent Owens match. Was surprised because I don't think I heard much about that WM match.

Balor seems to just have good chemistry with Itami in general, as they both seemed to really be having fun in their tag against Ascension. That was the best Itami looked besides against Balor.


As for RAW, forgot to say that I love how the crowd popped for that comic book image of Neville and Stardust. That was cool, and they made the match seem like it really had potential by doing that little lead in, especially with Stardust's promo. The match didn't live up to the potential, though. They barely had time also.

Still, if they were insistent on keeping the Stardust character, at least they did a little _something_ for a throwaway match.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

WWE sent me a survey to fill in. Considering I have four assignments due, and a lecture to plan for tomorrow, I thought I'd procrastinate by filling it in. This stood out to me:










I know they're a little more lax since the incident, but that's an odd placing, nonetheless.



EDIT: personalised interview for South Africa yet no option for "I want the full network, you assholes" :mj2


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Raylan Givens said:


> Think it might be my WWE MOTY as well. I'll give it a rewatch soon but I had more fun watching this than any other WWE match this year- more than Reigns/Lesnar even :shrug


A plus to the match was that there was absolutely no question about who would win. It could have been either Rusev, Cesaro or Owens (although, that one was least likely). The drama was high for it.

I really hope Cesaro and Rusev have a one-on-one match this Sunday at Battleground and we get a US Title fatal-four way at Summerslam between Cena/Cesaro/Rusev/Owens.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Bruce L said:


> There's a Nagata/Sakuraba singles match from 10/14/13 that's pretty damn swanky in much the same way as the Nakamura match, though not quite as good.


I saw that Meltzer only gave it three stars, so I thought that maybe it wasn't as good as I was hoping. I'll probably watch it soon.

Forgot to mentioned that I LOVED Cena's face when Rusev got him in the Accolade. Helped make the moment all the more spectacular. 

I also remember Cena selling an Accolade moment really well in one of their previous matches too. I think the FL match? He was giving him a really hard time getting his arms, and was turning white and everything. Thought that was really good.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Gotta take measures into my own hands. Anyone up to watch the HHH vs. Jeff Hardy series? I got the links right here.

8/14/95

4/10/01
4/16/01
5/3/01

9/16/02
12/9/02

Armageddon 2007 PT 1
Armageddon 2007 PT 2

6/9/08 PT 1
6/9/08 PT 2
No Mercy 2008 PT 1
No Mercy 2008 PT 2
Cyber Sunday 2008
11/11/08 PT 1
11/11/08 PT 2
12/12/08

BONUS:

RAW Elimination Chamber 2008
Championship Scramble Unforgiven 2008
Jeff Hardy vs. Triple H vs. Edge (Armageddon 2008)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Rah said:


> WWE sent me a survey to fill in. Considering I have four assignments due, and a lecture to plan for tomorrow, I thought I'd procrastinate by filling it in. This stood out to me:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Where'd you get that? :lol

Is there a link to the survey, did they send it via e-mail? I checked a bunch of emails I've used to re-register to Network and got nothing.

Then again, maybe they felt it was wrong to put Kelly Kelly in there and blatantly ignore an undisputed legend. Still, it's a first time I see them straight up reference Benoit as a legend. Part of me feels it has to do with WWE 2K16 with the 120 playable characters.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Rah said:


> WWE sent me a survey to fill in. Considering I have four assignments due, and a lecture to plan for tomorrow, I thought I'd procrastinate by filling it in. This stood out to me:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, no Triple H :lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Raylan Givens said:


> Wow, no Triple H :lmao :lmao :lmao


They think he's a given and that they have brainwashed enough people with their propaganda bullshit to think that too.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I would have been a total weirdo with that survey. Tick Miss Elizabeth and Road Dogg and leave the rest blank.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I would have been a total weirdo with that survey. Tick Miss Elizabeth and Road Dogg and leave the rest blank.


:lmao :lmao :lmao

I'm just pissed out of all the wrestlers they listed they didn't list fucking Vader. Really now.

I'd have checked Regal, Vader, and Finlay and submitted it. I'd preorder documentaries for those 3 guys If they announced them.


----------



## -Skullbone- (Sep 20, 2006)

To briefly summarize my thoughts about Raw's triple threat, I thought it was one of the better booked matches I've seen recently, but also a rather ambitious move on their part which is more rewarding. It's a shame the crowd were more concerned about Cena at one point when he wasn't even in the match. Oh well. It's to be expected. The three guys won the attention back their way anyway, especially when it was down to Cesaro and Rusev. 

What I felt was particularly interesting about the match/es were the face roles that were exchanged with everyone except Owens. Cesaro was working again as the silent babyface for the triple threat and the one-on-one, while Rusev was teasing the face role in his exhausted attempts to resist Cena (who, yes, WAS mostly working as a heel). That was definitely a flirtation with Rusev's future though, which makes you think they might be looking to eventually make him the unexpected good guy in that awful love triangle angle. 

What that showing also might signify is that they're FINALLY allowing Cena to be used in less stringent ways to better benefit the guy working with him. I'm sure they know he'll never lose the majority of his starpower, but hopefully the company will allow guys they _want_ as stars without previously _trusting_ them enough to now push on ahead. There has got to be that point in time where you take that 'calculated risk' without having to resort to ol' faithful ALL the time (which is now looking like Rock and Triple H are, unfortunately).


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You can forget about Vader getting a documentary after his foolish decision this past month.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Triple threat on RAW was great, great stuff. Wouldn't claim it as the best match I've seen all year _(Nothing is touching Brock vs Reigns, obviously.)_ but I'll be damned if it didn't at least make a grand effort into that territory. Amazing to me to see a triple threat match booked that well, & actually see smart function within the rules and not divulge into an absolute pile of shit as the match type often always does. The only thing I wasn't sure at what they were going w/was Rusev's determination. I mean, how could you not root for him in this scenario? Sure the Dolph thing is up in the air in kayfabe for the time being, although I'm not exactly certain on what this means comes next week & that's a bit bothersome to me. Long term stuff, you know? Not like it happens to affect the match or how I feel about it. There just has to be certain things they think about before acting on it. Suppose the end game was Owens would make the match end in a schmoz & it ends up making Owens look like THE MEGA HEEL now that he's even taken out Rusev and gotten lots of heat for it. That's probably all it was & I'm over-thinking any of the rest. The entire make-up of this part of RAW was terrific. A complete blast to see unfold. All four are cooking.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> You can forget about Vader getting a documentary after his foolish decision this past month.


I don't follow, you mean the TNA thing? Come on now that wouldn't change their opinion of Leon, he's 60 years old and just having a bit of fun.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Choke2Death said:


> Where'd you get that? :lol
> 
> Is there a link to the survey, did they send it via e-mail? I checked a bunch of emails I've used to re-register to Network and got nothing.
> 
> Then again, maybe they felt it was wrong to put Kelly Kelly in there and blatantly ignore an undisputed legend. Still, it's a first time I see them straight up reference Benoit as a legend. Part of me feels it has to do with WWE 2K16 with the 120 playable characters.


They sent it to me via Email (I probably binned it). Judging by the terminology (especially with how demographics were asked), it seemed very focused on the South/Southern African market. The questionnaire ranged from my personal information, to wrestling viewing habits, in what media I had heard of the WWE in the last month (newspaper/internet/TV) and also what I find interesting about wrestling. Am I watching for larger-than-life superstars, promos/in-depth feuds or wrestling quality? There was a long list of options to choose from.

I'm going to assume that the purpose was to aggregate SA's interest in wrestling, and tailor a network launch here that meets those needs. I have little to no faith in any African wrestling fans, anymore, after finding someone in my social circle that watches. My "Daniel Bryan getting injured sucks" off-hand comment was met with a "GOOD, fuck that boring, hobo-looking troll and his weak ass kicks".

:mj2


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Rah said:


> They sent it to me via Email (I probably binned it). Judging by the terminology (especially with how demographics were asked), it seemed very focused on the South/Southern African market. The questionnaire ranged from my personal information, to wrestling viewing habits, in what media I had heard of the WWE in the last month (newspaper/internet/TV) and also what I find interesting about wrestling. Am I watching for larger-than-life superstars, promos/in-depth feuds or wrestling quality? There was a long list of options to choose from.
> 
> I'm going to assume that the purpose was to aggregate SA's interest in wrestling, and tailor a network launch here that meets those needs. I have little to no faith in any African wrestling fans, anymore, after finding someone in my social circle that watches. My "Daniel Bryan getting injured sucks" off-hand comment was met with a "GOOD, fuck that boring, hobo-looking troll and his weak ass kicks".
> 
> :mj2


Lotta tough guys out there on the Internet these days :lmao

Seriously though, nothing makes ME more annoyed on the interner than people who take wrestling so seriously, to the point where they are saying "fuck so and so I'm glad he's hurt he can't work the mic anyway" or "Fuck Samoa Joe for injuring Kidd that fat slob is so reckless and dangerous" and blah blah blah. Or today "Fuck the Undertaker, what has he done to earn my respect? All he does is bury people and he's old and fuck him and fuck fuck fuck". It's enough to make any normal decent person wish the death penalty could be given to people for stupidity. Seriously, with how easy it is to become informed and knowledgeable about anything and everything with the Internet, remaining an ignorant moron should be an offense worthy of death.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Sounds like a rant there Chris.   Can't say i disagree though.

Has Ambrose got anything to do on Sunday, or will he be on the pre show panel? Faced Bo fucking Dallas last week, this week virtually had the night off. Seriously WWE.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Brock said:


> Sounds like a rant there Chris.   Can't say i disagree though.
> 
> Has Ambrose got anything to do on Sunday, or will he bill on the pre show panel? Faced Bo fucking Dallas last week, this week virtually had the night off. Seriously WWE.


Nope. 

Don't really see where he fits in at Summerslam either.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Beating Bo Dallas was fine. Nothing wrong w/a higher card babyface having a small match w/a midcarder on RAW for a change. Battleground almost has too stacked of a card in some regard, so keeping Ambrose off for a potential match at SummerSlam isn't troubling. Even if he isn't on the card, it happens. Sheamus & Cesaro weren't on the card last year & look where they're at atm. Fluctuates. Besides, if anyone thought the program vs Rollins wasn't something to just do until Brock came back, then well, hopes were up for too much. I won't say nothing b/c he's way more established now than ever, but that wasn't gonna lead to anything major for the time being.

They have stuff going atm to where _maybe_ they know what they're doing as far as upping the card from standard PPV to 2nd biggest PPV of the year is concerned. I'm probably a right twonk for wanting to be this casually optimistic. Alas, here I am. This is stated w/one program I'm almost certain to take place at SummerSlam I'm not thrilled about.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Everyone get excited for the NXT Brooklyn event. Probably the biggest name not to have wrestled in the WWE is coming.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Going by the most recent NXT tapings/spoilers, here's what Takeover: Brooklyn is gonna look like:



Spoiler: Brooklyn



Owens vs. Balor
Breeze vs. Liger
Joe vs. Corbin
Sasha vs. Bayley



Not a bad card, but not as big as you'd expect aside from the special guest.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Spoiler: I guess spoiler? (about the NXT show)



They could have thrown me a bone for once and gone with Liger against Cesaro or, GOD FORBID, Regal.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So they get HIM... and book him against Breeze? Ummm... did HHH hit his head recently?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Spoiler: NXT



SASHA VS. BAYLEY? :mark: Pls give them 15 minutes. Could be absolutely incredible


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Spoiler: NXT



Booking him vs Breeze is great and logical, & this is the greatest news not related to Zayn NXT will ever have in their exisistence. Bar none. Not gonna go out and wish he had someone like Cesaro or Regal. C'mon, now. Setting up to fail.

Card is fine outside of the Championship match, I'd say. Which is ok, but I'm personally not enthralled. Even if it does sort of guarantee Owens will make it something I can, and will, probably have some fun w/. What could be bigger as far as the entire card goes? All are focused people on the roster. Plus JUSHIN LIGER. Sasha vs Bayley finally for the championship is in of itself a long time coming. Their chemistry has proven to be very reliable in the numerous sprints they've had. A emphasized "big" match between the two sounds incredibly appealing.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I guess all things considered we're just lucky he isn't facing HHH only to lose so Helmsley continues HIS PLACE AS THE CHOSEN ONE AND WWE REIGNS SUPREME AFTER A HARROWING NEAR-LOSS-NOT-REALLY TO STING IN WRESTLEMANIA PLAYBUTTON'S REAL MAIN EVENT THAT IF YOU HAVE ALREADY FORGOTTEN WAS WON BY HHH.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Exactly. :lmao

b/c you realize how scary true that scenario could be. btw, watching 1991 stuff atm is hilarious b/c Sting is already a mega star and Trips didn't even start wrestling yet. BUT APPARENTLY IT WAS THE MATCH THAT WE ALL NEVER THOUGHT WOULD HAPPEN AND IT DID B/C MONDAY NIGHT WARS.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Sting and HHH never even had real popularity/overnessness peaks cross anyway did they? I mean I'm sure some kid, somewhere, sometime in 1998 said "I wanna see the Crowman fight the big nose guy from Dedengenation X" but it just comes off like WWE yelling at kids that it's a "dream match the growed ups always wanted to see!!!" The grown ups are three feet away with their shoulders up going "no we fucking didn't." Taker/Sting is the Sting/WWE they've clamoured for for a minute and change (if my three minutes outside of this thread is anything to go by), and actually a match they could have delivered but "best for business" is HHH's way of telling you his nickname is "business" so they went nahhhh.


I am pumped for 2034 when WWE tells us we are finally getting the HHH/Austin Aries we always wanted.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Story of Triple H's career, really. Company always pushing his image/"impact on the biz" harder than what it really is. Was he a big guy from them? Sure. Was he a guy to be in the same league as a Sting, who was THE guy for the rival company? Certainly not. Sting vs Undertaker is the match. Or Sting vs mega star Austin. Sting vs Kane, even. _(as far as wanting it via fan response, goes. This was commonly brought up. akin to the Taker scenario, I suppose)_ Those were clamored for dream matches. This is like wanting to pitch Miz at his career height in 2010/2011 to work vs someone else who is another company's big star in modern times. uhh, Tanahashi can work. Especially if the year by year thing matches up as the dude was unreal circa 2011. It's like that to me. THIS IS THE MATCH YOU NEVER THOUGHT YOU'D SEE. And I'm like _"well yeah. Never b/c it never once popped up as anything that should happen or would happen b/c it randomly became a money match b/c you said so."_

edit: of course, this scenario is w/o the comedic pitch of Trips ego coming into play w/the reality of what we got. b/c now he officially has the POWER.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I never think I'll see Elijah Burke against Mascara Sagrada. Can WWE make that happen now to give Maffew a couple easy videos?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao

Dear sweet christ.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Spoiler: Takeover VI



*SASHA/BAYLEY FUCK YESSS* HOPE THEY OUTDO SASHA/BECKY (WHICH I FINALLY WATCHED AND WAS PRETTY SICK TO WATCH BTW, 2 GIRLS BEATING EACH OTHER'S ARMS TO SHIT HAD ME LIKE :mark

Liger in the WWE? Well, that's not something I expected to hear in all honesty. Good that they're booking him w/Breeze, that guy deserves more recognition, he's an awesome heel and his style gels well w/Liger's.

Joe/Corbin? I hope to God this doesn't go 5 minutes.

Balor/Owens III isn't the best of options they could've done, but you know, given that the first two matches were very good, I don't doubt this will be pretty cool and that Owens will kill it in the angry SOB heel role.

I assume too that it's gonna be Team BAM/Team SAWFT, and that sounds like it could be hit or miss as usual w/Tag Title matches, but the previous one in Unstoppable was watchable, + the Brooklyn atmosphere and the inevitable feel-good moment of SAWFT winning the titles will add something special to this one. I think it could be decent.


Go figure, this is gonna be the first WWE event I watch since WM 31 (tho I did watch Unstoppable recently, but w/v. I mean in the sense that I watched it when it happened).


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

so i was in a altered state of mind last night and i switched on souled out 2000 

:lmao what the actual fuck was that

i'm going to watch HBK/Taker wm25 and wm26 SOON (next half hour or so)

lets discuss those matches


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ive still yet to see the '89 Timeline with Cornette, but just read there is a WCW 1994 one with Bischoff out. Could be decent.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Yeah1993 said:


> I never think I'll see Elijah Burke against Mascara Sagrada. Can WWE make that happen now to give Maffew a couple easy videos?


Stick around, it may have actually happened. Especially considering the strange Mexican behind La Liga Elite booked THIS in Arena Mexico.






And that I'm also still finding the weirdest fucking teams that TNA sent to AAA years ago

*Head Hunter I, Ron Killings, Rikishi, Black Pearl, & Sabu*
_Vs_
*El Animal, Latin Lover, La Parka, & Zorro*

Just to think, a few months ago I had thought the Abyss/Gronda feud had some atrocious multi-mans. Fucking Mexico.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

From a Breeze perspective, part of the fun of seeing him go against someone outside of the WWE realm, would be to see their facial reactions to his nonsense.

Obviously from a Liger perspective, him against someone of a higher stature would be a bigger deal.

Match will probably still be fun anyway. 

I wonder if even more people are coming over.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

KENNY said:


> so i was in a altered state of mind last night and i switched on souled out 2000
> 
> :lmao what the actual fuck was that
> 
> ...


I love your posts bud and I'm super happy you became a part of this thread but please, God, no more talking about HHH/Taker or HBK/Taker WM matches. It's been argued and discussed as nauseum. 

However, if you'd like to talk about the negative impact those matches had on the wrestling business, particularly in regards to how everyone and their sister swagger jacked the multiple finisher kick outs from the HBK/Taker WM matches, then Im all game. HBK/Taker WM 25 is why we get Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin Showdown in the Sun with a BAZILLION finisher kick outs, awesome. Because a match between those guys is surely comparable to a match between HBK/Taker, at WrestleMania, after they hadn't wrestled each other in over a decade, after they had both had 20+ year careers making the finisher kick outs make sense and be awe inspiring as opposed to soul crushingly horrid.

Im sorry, if you can't tell I'm just on a warpath about finisher kick outs in matches. It's why I miss Danielson so much, he is the most popular proponent of never doing finisher kick outs. Punk and Joe talked about it in an interview, about how during ROH shows Danielson would literally blow a gasket and start raging if he saw guys working non-feud ending matches where they kick out of each other's finishers.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Tell me about it. One thing I hate about WWE right now is it doesn't matter if it's the WM main event or a meaningless Raw match, finisher kick outs seem to be obligatory at this point. What's worse is the formula is always the same, so let's say it's Cena vs Owens. Cena hits big move, Owens kicks out at 2, then Cena tries to hit big move but gets countered with another big move by Owens and kicks out at 2. That's the formula they repeat for about 10 minutes with some finishers thrown in for good measure. I blame the Punk vs Cena matches because even though Undertaker vs HBK started it, their matches turned it into the norm because PPV or on TV, they always kicked out of each other's finisher at least once. Say what you want about Orton, but at least he's done a good job in protecting his finisher from being kicked out of every week or month if he's not wrestling Cena.

On a similar note, I watched Cena vs Cesaro from last week yesterday and it was excellent. On par with their February 2014 match but the overuse of big spots/finishers brings it down a notch. I absolutely _loved_ Cesaro doing the Sharpshooter switch into Crossface spot (the finish to Benoit/Booker at No Way Out). Will get to the triple threat from this week soon and I'll try to catch up on some NXT stuff like Balor vs Owens from Japan.

Back to the post-Attitude period, I can't believe that WM14 has the best build from any of the AE road to WM's. I expected WM17 to be epic and as great as the show itself is, the build-up was horrendous, specially for Rock/Austin with all the Debra nonsense and inserting Angle in it to the point that they almost went into the show with him and Benoit not announced for the card. Now I'm at the RTWM18 and although it's cool to have Hogan back, this nWo stuff feels cheesy and outdated. Like that truck into ambulance segment was terrible and even worse was JR and Lawler trying to treat it like an Owen Hart situation. Just exaggerated trash that nobody could possibly buy into.


----------



## Rugrat (Jun 30, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Im sorry, if you can't tell I'm just on a warpath about finisher kick outs in matches. It's why I miss Danielson so much, he is the most popular proponent of never doing finisher kick outs. Punk and Joe talked about it in an interview, about how during ROH shows Danielson would literally blow a gasket and start raging if he saw guys working non-feud ending matches where they kick out of each other's finishers.


This kinda paints him as a bit of a hypocrite, in all honesty. On the Raw two shows before Extreme Rules 2014 he took three tombstones, including on the steel stairs and the announcer table. In the match, he didn't sell his neck or anything. If he wants to get on his high horse about selling finishers, he should look closer to home.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Selling his neck when he was resting at home for two weeks before a PPV, when the context here is selling finishers within an actual match?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Rugrat said:


> This kinda paints him as a bit of a hypocrite, in all honesty. On the Raw two shows before Extreme Rules 2014 he took three tombstones, including on the steel stairs and the announcer table. In the match, he didn't sell his neck or anything. If he wants to get on his high horse about selling finishers, he should look closer to home.


I don't know for a FACT, but I'm almost 100% certain that that wasn't Bryans call. Batista was talking on Jericho's podcast about the lost art of selling in the WWE, and he talked about Bryan to make his point. He said on the Raw after WM 30 Bryan wanted to come out selling the tremendous beat down he had received at WM 30. I mean he wrestled 1 match vs Hunter that went 20+ min and featured and extended shoulder work over period by Hunter. He beats Hunter with only 1 flying knee. Then he goes into the main event against Orton/Batista, and again gets beat down to the point they were gonna stretcher him out. He fires up, makes his big come back, and gets Batsita to tap clean to the Lebell Lock. 

Bryan wanted to come out looking like he'd been through hell, because he had. He wanted to really be selling his shoulder and his back. But VINCE wouldn't hear it, he wouldn't allow it. He insisted that because Bryan is so small he needed to "stand tall" and no sell everything. He said that if Bryan was always selling that he wouldn't be credible enough, which is just lunacy but that's how Vince's mind works. Batista saw what was happening and grabbed Orton and together they jumped in on Bryans side and tried to convince Vince that Bryan was right and he should come out selling. Vince shot them all down and told Bryan he needed to go out there and "stand tall".

Now, this doesn't deal with the Raw you were talking about, but I find it A LOT more likely that Vince again told Bryan not to sell and to "stand tall" as opposed to Bryan just deciding on his own not to sell. If that's even what happened because I don't remember the Raw you are mentioning.

What I'm saying is, after hearing Batista talk in depth about how WWE is so micromanaged to the point that guys aren't even allowed to decide what to sell for themselves or not, then I think you need to lay the blame on Vince and "creative" for Bryan not selling as well as you'd like him to in a segment. 

You only need to look at Bryans career Pre-WWE, when he had total autonomy on what he was gonna say and do in the matches outside of their finish, for you to realize that Bryan isn't a hypocrit. Bryans ROH stuff for the most part is great because of how perfect he was as an in ring performer. Whether it was his ability to sell and get sympathy, sell and get a baby face over when he was a heel, wrestle guys like Morishima who outweighed him by 100lbs and make it believable, and refuse to get sucked into the finisher kick out stuff that was becoming more and more common on the wrestling scene. 

The interview I was talking about between Punk/Joe is on the ROH DVD set "Punk vs Joe", it features their trilogy of classic matches along with a 90 minute shoot interview wih the both of them. In it they talk about how, in their first match which went 60 minutes, they didn't want to use any finishers because they knew they would be wrestling again and wanted to save stuff for the climax. They mentioned that "And I knew Danielson would be proud that we didn't kick out of either of each other's finishes during an entire 60 minute match". The wording isn't 100% the same, but they definitely said that Bryan was staunchly opposed to guys kicking out of each other's finishes unless it's a feud climax.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's WWE. We're all almost certain some points of selling are denied even if the worker in question realizes they should emphasize it, so that other factors of the story they want can be shown. Danielson from WM 30 is apt. He wins the match, and proceeds to celebrate w/both arms to hold up both championships. His arm was destroyed the entire night. But the sight of him on the tables holding the gold was too perfect to deny for the final shot. That's WWE.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Tell me about it. One thing I hate about WWE right now is it doesn't matter if it's the WM main event or a meaningless Raw match, finisher kick outs seem to be obligatory at this point. What's worse is the formula is always the same, so let's say it's Cena vs Owens. Cena hits big move, Owens kicks out at 2, then Cena tries to hit big move but gets countered with another big move by Owens and kicks out at 2. That's the formula they repeat for about 10 minutes with some finishers thrown in for good measure. I blame the Punk vs Cena matches because even though Undertaker vs HBK started it, their matches turned it into the norm because PPV or on TV, they always kicked out of each other's finisher at least once. Say what you want about Orton, but at least he's done a good job in protecting his finisher from being kicked out of every week or month if he's not wrestling Cena.
> 
> On a similar note, I watched Cena vs Cesaro from last week yesterday and it was excellent. On par with their February 2014 match but the overuse of big spots/finishers brings it down a notch. I absolutely _loved_ Cesaro doing the Sharpshooter switch into Crossface spot (the finish to Benoit/Booker at No Way Out). Will get to the triple threat from this week soon and I'll try to catch up on some NXT stuff like Balor vs Owens from Japan.
> 
> Back to the post-Attitude period, I can't believe that WM14 has the best build from any of the AE road to WM's. I expected WM17 to be epic and as great as the show itself is, the build-up was horrendous, specially for Rock/Austin with all the Debra nonsense and inserting Angle in it to the point that they almost went into the show with him and Benoit not announced for the card. Now I'm at the RTWM18 and although it's cool to have Hogan back, this nWo stuff feels cheesy and outdated. Like that truck into ambulance segment was terrible and even worse was JR and Lawler trying to treat it like an Owen Hart situation. Just exaggerated trash that nobody could possibly buy into.



Sorry for the double post but I just saw this and my last post was massive and I didn't want this to get lost in the shuffle.

You are so right about WM 17. It's rightly regarded as either the best or 2nd best Mania ever (19 is the best iMO) but damn when I went to relive it the builds were just "bleh".

The Deborah shit was awful. Austin and Rock managed to save it though with that JR sit down interview. Look, Austin wrestling Rock is going to draw a ton of interest and sell out a building no matter what, but even so, up until the sit down interview, it honestly was like WWE did whatever they could to fuck it up and decrease fan interest. Thank god they came to their senses and realized "Hey, it's Austin and fucking Rock. Let's just sit them down with Jim and 2 mics and cut them loose on each other" which is what they did. That sit down interview was just perfect, I wish they would do more of those for matches that aren't blood feuds (blood feuds shouldn't have sit down interviews because the opponents should be trying to kill each other).

I don't think it's totally fair to blame Punk/Cena for the finish kick out deal. For one. HBK/Taker and 1 of the HHH/Taker matches happened before they even locked up in their first PPV main event. For another, didn't MITB only feature 1 AA kick out? Even if it didn't, the point is I never even noticed if they had multiple finish kick outs or not and I've seen that match 4-5 times. They just had so many different layers of a story going so seamlessly that I get totally lost in the action every time. 

For the NoC bout, by that time they had established themselves as the biggest rivalry WWE had had in years and years. They went with the "throwing everything including the kitchen sink" at each other story and executed it again in my opinion to perfection. Punk using the Rock Bottom was so perfect to, as he realized his GTS wasn't getting it done so he went with the move that had famously beaten Cena at WM 28 hoping to finish him that way.

The last match they had on Raw was a continuance of the NOC story but they took it even further with Punk resorting to a pile driver instead of a Rock Bottom. Again, by this team these guys were clearly the 2 biggest stars in the WWE and they are wrestling for a chance to headline WM for the title, it's understandable.

I don't see the HBK/Taker and HHH/Taker matches in the Punk/Cena matches. They just work the finish kick outs differently. And again, I'm not even complaining about the finish kick outs in HBK/Taker, HHH/Taker, or even Punk/Cena. I'm complaining that people saw the widespread acclaim those matches received and started copying it and doing it on B PPV's and Raw. I'm complaining because Owens and Cena literally blew through their entire arsenal on their very first encounter at EC. That was a fantadtic match but that should be the LAST match they have, not the first. 

Guys just need to work some more counters for Christ sake. Don't let him hit you with the finish over and over, counter it before he can do it. That's one of the things I absolutely LOVE about Benoit/Finlay and Benoit/Regal matches. Works of art, not a single finish kick out, and Regal and Finlay NEVER let Benoit hook in the cross face until it's time for the finish. They either get into the ropes immediately or counter immediately before it gets locked in. But when it gets locked in, the fucking tap right away to avoid further damage. So smart.

The only matches I can understand having multiple (ie more than 1) finisher kick out is at WM or when a feud is ending. That's it. No B PPV even for the U.S. title, no match on Raw, no match for the WWE title unless it's the blow off or again at WM. Just stop it already, it's killing everyone's moves and ruining the in ring product. The in ring product is literally the only reason anyone has for watching what WwE currently puts out. If it ain't a Heyman promo, a Brock appearance, or an actual match there is no reason to watch the show. They are ruining the last good thing they have going by making every match a carbon copy finisher kick out fest.

With that said I haven't seen any of the recent Cesaro/Cena matches or the Cesaro/Rusev/Owens match because I can't find links and lord knows I don't watch the show live anymore. So if anyone has a link to either of those matches I'd love to see them.



Obfuscation said:


> It's WWE. We're all almost certain some points of selling are denied even if the worker in question realizes they should emphasize it, so that other factors of the story they want can be shown. Danielson from WM 30 is apt. He wins the match, and proceeds to celebrate w/both arms to hold up both championships. His arm was destroyed the entire night. But the sight of him on the tables holding the gold was too perfect to deny for the final shot. That's WWE.


Actually that wasn't what I was mentioning. I can buy Danielson no selling after the match because of the rush of adrenaline and everyone knows injuries aren't unbearable until the day after.

What I was talking about was the Raw after WM. Danielson wanted to come out selling like he survived a war, and VINCE didn't want him to. That's the conversation Batista was talking about on Jericho's podcast.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Aye, but my interjection is another point I wanted to add. I don't even really hold it against him - or the company - as a way to diminish anything on the night. _(my suspension can be raised there b/c jubilation was achieved.)_ Yet, it still is a point for the modern sense & our guesses/thoughts/tidbits of info on hearing WWE does do aspects like this when something should be sold, but is refuted.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah, the sit-down interview with JR was fantastic and the beer bash segment that led into a brawl was cool too. But the rest of the build absolutely sucked. Then in the last minute they realized that adding Debra into the story was a major fuck-up and Vince in a random backstage segment says she wont be at ringside for WM. So they based half the build-up on her playing the "wild card" only to undo all of it last minute.

I'm not taking anything away from Punk vs Cena matches on their own, the point is, they started the finisher-fest revolution because everyone was raving about how great MITB was. It became the norm for them to kick out of each other's finisher even on Raw matches. Yeah, the Taker streak matches had a lot of finisher kick outs, but that was not the norm. They were Wrestlemania matches with the biggest prize at stake (the streak), so it made sense to go overboard although not as much as WM27 which I agree sucked and is the exception, what with HHH hitting 3 Pedigrees in a row and a Tombstone. Punk vs Cena matches normalized finisher kick outs while HBK/Taker created the idea. It got to the point even their TV matches with nothing at stake would feature at least one kick out. And now we have Cena letting any random jobber responding to his challenge kick out of the AA. It's got to the point that if a local jobber answers the challenge and gets hit with an AA, I expect a kick-out.

As for the recent matches, just go to watchwrestling and look for the latest Raw shows to get them. Plenty of links in case one or another doesn't work.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

One thing I forgot to praise about the RAW triple threat match. I loved Cena getting prepared when he "thought" someone would win. It's not that it made me buy into the win, it's that it made it all come across lkie a real sport, with him getting ready in the background & taking it seriously. Nice touch on Cena's part.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

LilOlMe said:


> One thing I forgot to praise about the RAW triple threat match. I loved Cena getting prepared when he "thought" someone would win. It's not that it made me buy into the win, it's that it made it all come across lkie a real sport, with him getting ready in the background & taking it seriously. Nice touch on Cena's part.


Just watched the match for the first time. Tremendous. Dare I say, better than the Royal Rumble 3 way. It's neck and neck with Owens/Cena EC for my current MotY. 

I too really, really appreciated what Cena brought to the table from the commentary table. He literally spent the entire time putting over the competitors in the ring, putting over how much the US title meant to him, and then correcting JBL and Cole anytime they mentioned "Owens has a GUARUNTEED match vs Cena for the U.S. title at Battleground" by slipping in "Owens has a GUARUNTEED Us title match with whomever is champion". Really guys, is it THAT hard to remember that Cena was defending the U.S. title right after the match and that he might very we'll lose? You can't just say it's a gaurunteed US title match with Cena at Battleground because in kayfabe he might lose his match that night, as unlikely as that would be considering he'd be fresh facing a worn out challenger.

That was literally my only gripe with the entire match, surprise surprise, with the commentary buffoons continually breaking kayfabe. Cena did his job by correcting them on the sly, and then he did his job x10000 by how well he put over the guys in the ring, and constantly deflected attention from himself. John even went out of his way to make sure people listening understood that, the only reason the guys in the ring weren't mega stars was lack of opportunity, not that they had been slacking or lacked something.

As for the match, wow. Just wow. Cesaro man, how good is this guy? I've had him just a smidge below by "Best in the World" trio of Bryan, Zayn, and Nakamura for the past 2 years. My solid #4 guy, because he didn't have the innate charisma or promo ability of the other 3. Now, I'm not so sure anymore, he's showing so much character and making himself so damn like able that it's damn near impossible for me not to move him up to that top tier. With Bryan on the shelf indefinitely he will just have to take his spot for the time being.

Cesaro's corkscrew diving uppercut is a thing of beauty. I loved his aggressiveness and also how well he sold everything and didn't just go all "Superman" all the time. When he'd Fire up and deliver a quick move, he'd always fall right back to selling afterwards and that's what separates good wrestlers from great wrestlers, the ability to consistently sell while still keeping a match full of action.

Don't want to ignore the others involved, cause man they all delivers in spades. This was easily Rusevs best match ever, he shone like a brand new penny and was right there with Owens and Cesaro, two of the best in the world, every step of the way. Rusev needs a really good feud with a great opponent for the audience to sink it's teeth into, and then he will be ready for trial run in the main event. Love his athleticism and his facial expressions, and we all know how great his salesmanship is.

Owens did the damn thing while he was a part of the action. He continues to impress and show just how talented he is. He doesn't need any work, he's a finished product ready for the big time. 

God damn, now I'm back to missing Bryan. A Bryan/Owens, Bryan/Rusev, and Bryan/Cesaro feud is just what the doctor ordered. Or maybe a Bryan/Rollins feud to save Seth's run as a heel champ from the dire straights WWE's inept booking as put him in.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Finisher kickout talk and nobody is mentioning Kurt Angle allowing Shelton Benjamin to kick out of an Angle Slam in a five minute match? Where am I?

Punk and Orton were probably the two best guys in the past few years at protecting their finishers. Orton turned the RKO from a poor man's Diamond Cutter into arguably the most over finisher in the company. That move looks like it can finish anyone at first sight. And Punk understood the psychology of what a finish should be better than most/all. In most of his big PPV matches, you wouldn't see Punk's opponent kick out of the GTS. Instead, you'll see things like interferences, rolling out of the ring, lucky rope breaks, and tons and tons of counters. On top of that, Punk would do this thing where he would pretty much only let people kick out of the GTS if he didn't fully connect with it (Jericho at Payback, Undertaker at WM, Bryan at MITB). The one exception to the rule was with Cena, but cjack elaborated on why it was perfectly fine for the rules to be broken between those two. And on top of that, Punk would often look for other moves to finish off opponents rather than redoing his finisher, which further showcases the impact of the finisher being kicked out.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dunno how good the quality is during the entire video (hope it is sustained) but found this:






Looking forward to seeing what these two produce off of TV. Do believe there may have been another live show match w/these two floating around on Youtube.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Main event from the above show











[HIDE=3375]@YEAH1993, have you subscribed to the NWA Classics Network? Or do I need to share some Andre goodness with you to entice you into doing so?[/HIDE]


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

https://youtu.be/EYlKoUjR9q8


I think this Benoit/Finaly match from Nitro is one of the best short matches that I've ever seen. They have completely destroyed each other in a brilliant stiff match. Recommend for anyone that didn't see it yet, to check this bout out


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Srdjan99 said:


> https://youtu.be/EYlKoUjR9q8
> 
> 
> I think this Benoit/Finaly match from Nitro is one of the best short matches that I've ever seen. They have completely destroyed each other in a brilliant stiff match. Recommend for anyone that didn't see it yet, to check this bout out


I'll have to check it out...have you seen Regal vs Tajiri from SVS 01'? It clocks in at just under 3 minutes, yet in that time Tajiri manages to get Regal busted open hardway and also Regal beats the crap out of Tajiri. It's the most violent and amazing 3 minute match ever.

Owen Hart vs 1-2-3 Kid from KotR 94' is a fabulous sub 5 minute bout too.

There is an Austin/Regal Strap Match that's about 7 minutes of pure awesomeness.

I'm drawing a blank on some others, but I wanna say Regal is the king of the awesome short match. He has had at least 3-4 sub 5 minute matches that I've seen that are just about perfect, as good as a sub 5 minute match can possibly be. He never tries to do too much, but at the same time he doesn't Rush himself and always ensures the match is action packed from bell to bell.

Plus, I'll get this out of the way for my buddy @Yeah1993, Meng vs The Giant from Nitro 9/14/98 is an iconic, must see sub 5 minute match for all wrestling fans. It's perfect, exactly what a Meng/Giant match should be. It reminds me of the story Jericho tells in his book about the backstage fight between Big Show and Khali, how it was like watching Godzilla fight King Kong right in front of him, a clash of titans. That's what Meng/Giant is, two monsters stiffing the fuck out of each other.

Oh, and Kane/Viscera from Backlash 2005 is an excellent sub 5 minute match too. And Viscera/Benoit beat the clock on Raw is the same excellence.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Here is a great little 5 minute match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Oh, and Kane/Viscera from Backlash 2005 is an excellent sub 5 minute match too.


Finally. This match is 100% exactly what it needed to be. So rad.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm partial to Daniel Bryan vs. Fandango on the Slammy Show in 2013. Nothing that matches the rush of watching a crowd go crazy for a guy in a 5 minute beatdown. Except if we are talking about Goldberg.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

What are the most fun Goldberg squashes?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rah said:


> **** hidden content ****


Nope, not yet. I didn't remember to sign up for free NJ World, too. :/



Srdjan99 said:


> https://youtu.be/EYlKoUjR9q8
> 
> 
> I think this Benoit/Finaly match from Nitro is one of the best short matches that I've ever seen. They have completely destroyed each other in a brilliant stiff match. Recommend for anyone that didn't see it yet, to check this bout out


Match is awesome. Benoit has an amazing five minute match with Eddie just seven days earlier. 



Obfuscation said:


> Finally. This match is 100% exactly what it needed to be. So rad.


Thoughts on Big Show/Snitsky at Unforgiven 05? I loved it in...2009 or 2010 or something. I should go find it right now and see if I still like it.

edit - couldn;t fond it online, but this is a funky few minutes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhEwmK4MfNM

the crowd and commentary's enthusiasm for this is kind of jarring in 2015.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

La Parka and Big Show.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Thoughts on Big Show/Snitsky at Unforgiven 05? I loved it in...2009 or 2010 or something. I should go find it right now and see if I still like it.
> 
> edit - couldn;t fond it online, but this is a funky few minutes:
> 
> ...


Been a bit since I last saw it in full & the top wristlock spot w/the Spanish commentators blabbing was still a surreal moment while having a match. p. sure it was nice big FAT ball of fun. Was always glad it made the PPV b/c I always had a soft spot for Snitsky. Show fandom is a given.

They had a STREET FIGHT? Late RAW 2005 I missed so much.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Obfuscation said:


> Finally. This match is 100% exactly what it needed to be. So rad.


Heh, I actually skipped that match the first time I watch my Backlash 05' disc. But then I saw you name drop it the last time we discussed awesome "Fatty" matches and shortly after Cal did his BL 05' review and wrote that he liked it so I said screw it and popped it in when Big Vis died just recently. You were soooooo right, I love watching flawlessly executed short matches, sometimes I just need to take a break from only watching 15-30 min matches, like instead of a steak dinner I just want some Sour Punch Straws and a Red Bull. That's what that match was. Seeing Big Vis do that spinning wheel kick will always get a big reaction out of me, and say what you want about Kane but to me, if you look up the definition of "solid" in the wrestling dictionary you'll find a picture of him. He is just so smooth and steady, rarely ever doing dumb shit or blowing high spots or rushing the action, when he gets put with a Benoit, or Bryan, or Punk, or Taker, or Finlay, or any world class worker he just about always delivers. And in the case of his match with Big Vis, they both just went out there and gave the fans EXACTLY what they wanted. 

Gee, look, I some how managed to type a review of that match that lasts longer than the actual match itself :lmao If you can't tell I've been on an espresso bone these last 2 days causing me to type these stupidly long posts.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The incorporation of Lita & Trish in the mix, too. Plus the post-match that turns Vis babyface _(beating up a bitchy heel dame would earn ya that in 2005. Gone are the days.)_ It all worked out super well. There was an angle, story, & match. All three got checked off like they should. Having it be a match w/two big dudes makes me like it that much more. Considering what the next two matches were on the PPV that followed, the show peaked after Trish got squashed. :lmao

Kane's 2005 is p. damn fun, iirc. Starts off vs Snitsky. Has MITB in the mix. The Viscera match. Stuff vs Edge I generally liked most of it. Then he pairs up w/Show. Yeah, i'm certain this holds up.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I believe two of The Real Americans best matches were against The Shield and Goldust/Rhodes. Anyone know the dates?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The Real Americans Vs Rhodes Dynasty (18/03/2014 WWE Main Event)
The Real Americans Vs The Shield (24/03/2014 WWE Raw)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Well thanks very much.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The match from Main Event was elite stuff. Wonder how many even knew it took place.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't forget these 2 matches as well:

Cody Rhodes & Goldust Vs The Real Americans - MSG 26.12.2013 Cage http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7AfU7AXESBugc5u9lf

Sheamus & Christian Vs The Real Americans - WWE Raw Feb 10th 2014 http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k43iKZKJ9Va2KO7X14g


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

(Y) Thanks Cal. I've got that house show on disc somewhere so ill dig it out as i still havn't seen it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Never did watch the cage match. Only saw the clip of the moonsault from the top. Cal presents a new task for I. What a nice guy.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well, it's been a while...










*Night of Champions 2008*

EVERY MATCH IS A CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH~!


*John Morrison & The Miz Vs Finlay & Hornswoggle - WWE Tag Team Championship Match*

Seriously? Hornswoggle is Finaly's tag partner tonight? I have no problem with Hornswoggle being with Finlay, but NOT as his fucking TAG TEAM PARTNER. He shouldn't be in matches. Ever. Bah. Unless it's Wee LC. Then it's ok .

*update* Well it's been nearly TWO MONTHS since I first started this show :lmao. And all I did was write that first sentence :lmao. Now I have some alcohol so I'm hoping to get through the show this time lol.

Finlay and a Midget competing for the tag titles against 2 full grown men who are the tag champs. Yeah, ummm, are we HONESTLY supposed to believe that Miz & Morrison have the advantage in this match? Finlay would fucking MURDER the tag champs all by himself :lmao. Hell he DOES at a few points lol.

This was actually somewhat fun. Finlay rocks so that's that. The Hornswoggle stuff was actually really well done too. Nothing worth watching, but if someone forced you to watch it, you wouldn't want to shoot yourself after. And for a match involving THE JIZ, that's all you can ever hope for .

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*Matt Hardy Vs Chavo Guerrero - United States Championship Match*

Urgh, Chabo. But Matt Hardy is also in the match. Decision, decisions. Fine, I'll watch it. Like I said, I have ALCOHOL to get me through the show .

:lmao Chabo botches a back body drop.

THE INNOVATIVE OFFENCE OF CHAVO GUERRERO~! :lmao fuck off Foley :lmao. Or maybe it was JR. I was too busy drinking at the time .

So Mr Chabo is working over the leg and knee of Hardy, and according to Foley, Chabo knows how to do that effectively because he was brought up in the business. Yeah, because that's the only way to learn how to work a body part...

Thankfully Hardy is an awesome seller so he keeps this match somewhat interesting.

Wanna know something I HATE? Aside from Chabo, obviously. When someone goes for a top rope move and "rolls through" because his opponent avoided it. Which actually means they don't even ATTEMPT the ACTUAL FUCKING MOVE, then just do a fucking roll off the ropes and it looks downright RETARDED. Even the great Eddie Guerrero would do it from time to time too. It just looks worse when Chabo does it :side:.

Hardy struggles to adjust to only having one leg in this match (because the other is hurting, he hasn't turned into Zach Gowen all of a sudden. I'm not THAT drunk... yet), and keeps TRYING to his his usual high flying offence but either had to make adjustments mid move that aren't as effective as he'd like, or Chabo counters by going to the leg. Good stuff .

Chabo goes for the Three Amigos aka LOOK AT ME I'M RELATED TO EDDIE, but Hardy counters the third one into a Twist of Fate and covers for the win!!!

Fine match, and Chabo hate aside, you really could have replaced him with ANYONE ELSE doing basic leg work and have Hardy sell and shit, because he was the driving force here.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


:lmao they replay a segment from Raw... and it's the bit when Vince gets killed by the stage during that Million Dollar giveaway thing :lmao. What was that shit even all about, anyway? Did anything get... solved? 


*Mark Henry Vs Kane Vs The Big Show - ECW Championship Match*

:mark: BATTLING BEEFIES :mark:.

Ok, was too busy ENJOYING THE FUCK out of this to bother typing shit lol. SO much fun. 3 BEEFIE BASTARDS BATTLING for the ECW Title. What's NOT to love? Beating the ever loving shit out of each other, and doing things that you wouldn't expect guys of this size to be capable of. It rocks all kinds of shit.

And to top it all off... HENRY wins the title :mark:. MOTN. I don't care what else is on the show. I doubt it'll beat THIS.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


Batista interview. EVE TORRES :mark:. I miss Eve. She was awesome as the evil corporate sellout.

Cena shows up. Then Punk shows up and says he hopes both guys win the titles tonight and bring them back to raw cos his briefcase is getting heavy.


*Cody Rhodes & Hardcore Holly Vs Ted DiBiase & ??? - World Tag Team Championship Match*

Lillian looking HOT as per usual :mark:.

DiBiase has a mystery tag partner... but nobody knows who it is!!!

Match starts, and Cody DDT's Holly straight away :lmao. Million Dollar Dream into a... neckbreaker and DiBiase & Rhodes win the titles!!!

Anyone else kinda wonder what things would have been like had Holly turned on Rhodes to team with DiBiase? :lmao 

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Chris Jericho Vs Kofi Kingston - WWE Intercontinental Championship*

:lmao Kofi is Jericho's surprise opponent :lmao. What a let down :lmao.

"Controlled Frenzy" needs to be removed from existence. 

So, this was a match.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Mickie James Vs Katie Lea Burchill - WWE Women's Championship Match*

Nah, I'll pass.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Edge Vs Batista - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

Thanks to the draft (I... think), both major titles are now on Smackdown, so Batista is here to try and bring the WHC back with him to Raw. If he loses, he doesn't get another shot at Edge. Man, feels like I've written that for every match these two have had together :lmao.

BATISTA IS A POUNDER~! Just ask Melina 8*D.

So Batista throws Edge around for a while until Edge smashes Batista's shoulder into the ring post and blah blah blah. God I'm so sick of seeing these guys wrestle. They had like a billion matches in 07 and now they're back at it in 08.

NECK BREAKER. THAT'S A WRESTLING MANOEUVRE~! Huh, seems JR gave up when he got drafted to SD as a surprise :lmao.

Fuck me this is just awful. But I guess it gives us a new drinking game. Take a shot every time someone takes a bump into the turnbuckle.

Batista is about to win, so Vickie and the Edge Heads show up and start screwing around breaking up pins and knocking out the referee. Vickie demands a new ref come down and... it's Chabo. Wanna make an Edge Vs Batista match WORSE? Add Chabo to it!!!

Edge wins. I lose.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Triple H Vs John Cena - WWE Championship Match*

Well, Batista failed, so it's up to SUPER CENA to bring home a title to Raw.

Haven't seen this match since it aired. Haven't really cared to go out of my way to see it again tbh lol. Which is a little odd as I've always liked their WM 22 match, and most people do say this is the better match between them.

Shades of WM 22 early on with HHH "out-wrestling" Cena and then telling him to SUCK IT. Ahhh, remember WM 22 with both HBK and HHH referencing DX in their matches, teasing a potential reunion? What a fun time. And then they DID reunite. What a shitty time.

:lmao Cena SALUTES HHH AS RETALIATION FOR THE CROTCH CHOP EARLIER :lmao. I... I don't think that's EVER an insult John... well, maybe when you do it as shitty as you do. Learn to fucking salute you pleb!

This match is about half way in now and it's been very back and forthy. HHH will control, then Cena will control, then HHH will control, and all the while I just don't care. Fuck me, Cena goes for his 5 MOVES OF DOOM at one point and oh boy, it might be the single worst execution of the whole thing EVER. Cena's offence looks awful. More so than usual. And HHH sells it like he's the worst wrestler ever. Sure he's not usually a great wrestler, but I wouldn't call him the worst ever. Anyway, it all looked like shit from both guys.

Huh, HHH's leg is hurt. I must have dozed off cos buggered if I know how he hurt it :lmao.

Cena doing leg work. This is fun. Wanna know what else is just as fun? Eye stabbing.

Pedigree.

Punch exchange.

Yey Boo crowd thing.

STFU.

Crossface.

Bite.

My.

Shiny.

Daffodil.

Ass.

Pedigree.

This is mercifully over.

And people think this is better than their WM match? Are they all high? Or stupid? Or stupid and high?

This is dull and shitty.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 4.5*​


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

[cheap plug]There is a link to a house show Cena/HHH match on DM channel. [/cheap plug]

Edit:

x1josue

TBH, ive still to watch a single encounter between them lol.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Aside from the opening control segment I didn't care for, that was definitely one of the best Orton/Sheamus outings. I enjoyed it. (Y)


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Some guys don't really mesh well in the ring. Wyatt and Reigns are in that category.

As for Orton/Sheamus, it was a decent match helped by a hot crowd, IMO. One of the better battles, but it's not really saying much IMO


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Orton/Sheamus I thought was horrible. No flow and extremely sluggish. Crowd was hot for it which is the only positive. * for it.

Tag match was really good and so far the MOTN. ***1/4

Wyatt/Reigns was like Orton/Sheamus, but better. **


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

I liked Wyatt/Reigns to be honest. Thought it was hard hitting and don't really know what more we could of got from the two men. Didn't really seem to be much of a story to it though, I suppose that's one negative.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Reigns/Wyatt was very average. Not bad but not a match that I'd go back and watch. In some parts of the match, things got going but there would be periods where the match would become a bore after a while. Noting of note happened at all outside of the outside interference from Harper. 

Speaking of Harper, I'm just happy to see Bray and Harper reunite together. Hopefully it isn't a temporarily thing.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I liked Wyatt/Reigns the longer it went. Bray was on fire with all the counters and scouting of Roman. That's where the story came into play. Wyatt was in his head and outsmarted him on several occasions. Became super physical down the stretch too.

I've really dug the PPV so far. Women's 3 way is a nice little bonus.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Reigns/Wyatt finishing stretch made it better, but the match was very, very average. Harper tho :mark:

It's amazing how much Brie could bring down a match she had such little involvement in. Whenever she was in there, she seemed out of sync with Sasha and Charlotte, like they had to take that extra second to think about what they were going to do rather than just do it. Still a good match, though.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Well so far I thought the tag match was a pretty decent little tag, can't comment on Sheamus/Orton since the stream was really inconsistent and cut out for a large chunk I might be a bit jaded on that Wyatt/Reigns match since the foundation was the EXACT same I saw last night even down to the headlock struggle. Many of those spots were the exact same too. that 3 way I thought was meh. Nice athletecism on display but as the problem with many triple threats felt pretty set-up and spotty without much in the way of being organic and alot of those spots were blown to awkwardness.

edit: now for the money. Interested to see what comes out the better match here. If Lesnar/Rollins is packed with absurd shenanigans for a good amount of time, it may be no contest, but boy if they have Rollins/Lesnar straight up to the end: I expect a damn good one and a good utilization of Michaels/Taker formula.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Divas Triple Threat wasn't anything special. Maybe due to Brie, but nothing, even the Charlotte/Sasha interactions really set the world on fire. 

So far I'd say for the most part I haven't enjoyed the show. However I'm really looking forward to Cena/Owens and Brock/Rollins, both of which have potential to be MOTYC so my final verdict on the PPV is far from written.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I would have rather Owens lose due to the top rope AA... Bleh.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

wow that sucked


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Why on EARTH did they have Owens kick out of that rope AA!? So unnecessary. Another good bout in their series, but it wasn't really that much different from the other two. Lots of moves and kickouts.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

RatedR10 said:


> I would have rather Owens lose due to the top rope AA... Bleh.


I will be in a strong minority here, but I liked that finish. We have been conditioned that top rope AA = win, and topple that with the previous kickouts, the kickout A. was surprising and B. flipped Cena into a different gear, hence why the extra torque on the submission. Comes from that "different gear" that Owens' resiliance brought out of John (a trait through this whole trilogy they have worked on.) Owens once again kicked out of a Undertaker's durability worth of maneuvers, and didn't overtly tap, rather subtly tapped from the "extra gear" wrenching, so I don't think that Owens looked like a pussy by tapping. Plus, John winning again with the STF on ppv re-solidifies that move that had become rather weak and just an obligation rather than something to watch for. I will be in a mass minority, but I liked it.

edit: the problem lies though: why wouldn't John the character wrestle with that extra "adrenaline" gear and wrestle/apply holds with an added force all the time? That is a large hole.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Why on EARTH did they have Owens kick out of that rope AA!? So unnecessary. Another good bout in their series, but it wasn't really that much different from the other two. Lots of moves and kickouts.


It's all the same formula. Great formula, but the same. They aren't taking the next step to be MOTY level, though.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Shit ending for me. Just have him win with the top rope AA if you're going to beat the guy. Why have him tap? - Why have him defeat John Cena CLEAN in the first place if this is what was going to happen 3 months later? - I don't even think Owens winning at Summerslam would help him. I'd be surprised if Owens even got a match at Summerslam against Cena, if anything we'll probably see Cesaro/Owens.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Cena/Owens was great but I didn't like Owens tapping out to the STF after kicking out of the top rope AA. Cena goes over, fine, but they picked the worse possible finish to the match. 

Would rate the match as ***3/4.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I kinda take it since I have my doubts with them pulling the full trigger on Cesaro since John went over that Cena will eventually lose his US belt on one of his open challenges. Who the hell will it be?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

RatedR10 said:


> It's all the same formula. Great formula, but the same. They aren't taking the next step to be MOTY level, though.


Yet the announcers will call it one for month's to come. :lol

Owens went from being pushed to the moon to now losing to Cena on back to back PPVs and likely losing to Balor again next month. I really don't understand this company sometimes.

Still bothers me they just threw out the feud with Joe like nothing ever happened.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

WrestlingOracle said:


> I kinda take it since I have my doubts with them pulling the full trigger on Cesaro since John went over that Cena will eventually lose his US belt on one of his open challenges. Who the hell will it be?


Owens will probably cost him the belt and beat him at Summerslam because of it.

Cesaro/Rusev US title feud would be sweet.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cena vs. Owens vs. Rusev vs. Cesaro at Summerslam would be pretty epic, but then you think of that Dolph Ziggler guy who would probably ruin the chances of that happening. Unless they've written him off TV until after Summerslam.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well then... that match was pointless. Battleground back to being that filler show. :lol

So much for all the Lesnar/Rollins build and so much for that face run for Brock.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I got robbed of a MOTYC, but I'll always mark for Undertaker. :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Well. That was quite the ending.

Hey Cal, when you manage to get your Big Ben sized boner to calm down from that surprise Undertaker appearance, I'd love to know your thoughts.

My first thought of course was elation. I don't give a F, I just love seeing him. I was immediately reminded of something Foley said in one of his books, he said the money is in the eyes, that some guys could be 50+ years old like Terry Funk was at the time and still draw money and interest because of that look in their eyes. Taker had that look, I don't care that it's irrational to think a beat up and broken down 50+ year old man is a legit threat to the monster Brock Lesnar. I don't care that Takers last great match was 2 and 1/2 years ago. I don't care that 1 and 1/2 years ago Brock and Taker wrestled a solid yet highly dissapointing match. I just don't. Because I saw the old Deadman, the old Phenom in Takers eyes tonight. The same look he had when HBK struggled, crawling up his body at WM 26 and bitch slapped him, the same look that he had in his eyes when he sat up and caught Punk in the goozle at WM 29. The same look that as always signaled "The Undertaker is about to steam roll some sorry motherfucker and then Tombstone them straight to hell". That's why nothing in the world will keep me away from the television at Summerslam. This could be Takers last match, or he could go out at WM 32. Either way, you don't miss an opportunity to see The fucking Undertaker wrestle, not when he still has that look in his eyes that can believably cause Brock Lesnar to soil himself.

Night folks. I'll give my thoughts on the matches tomorrow.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Sheamus/Orton: ***
PTP/New Day: **3/4
Reigns/Wyatt: **1/4
Divas triple threat: **1/2
Cena/Owens: ****
Lesnar/Rollins: ***1/4

they robbed me of a MOTYC, but Taker :mark::mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Orton vs. Sheamus - *** 1/2 (hometown crowd helps but man I liked this one)
PTP vs. New Day - ** 1/2
Reigns vs. Wyatt - *** 1/2 (Wyatt was on his A-game)
Brie vs. Charlotte vs. Sasha - ** 3/4 (fun stuff, Brie didn't detract from anything)
Cena vs. Owens - *** 1/2 (little but of overkill near the end)
Lesnar vs. Rollins - N/R (frustrating)

The PPV was solid as a whole but they should've inserted another match. Cesaro vs. Rusev? Neville & The Lucha Dragons vs. Stardust & The Ascension? Ambrose vs. anyone?


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Well. That was quite the ending.
> 
> Hey Cal, when you manage to get your Big Ben sized boner to calm down from that surprise Undertaker appearance, I'd love to know your thoughts.
> 
> ...


While I'll disagree with the "believably cause Brock Lesnar to soil himself" comment, you are on the money and I was entertained by THAT SPECIFIC SEGMENT. If they seriously are going to serve up Brock on a silver platter to Undertaker.... (don't get me wrong, one my all time favorites hands down ya'll know I got much love for the Deadman), The guy may be arguable with Stan the greatest 300 plus pounder to ever do it, but In a business sense, the guy is still fifty years old and I don't want to watch a quite talented full time roster keep feeling like second rate for the next five-ten years because they don't get the backing/when push comes to shove, WWE always plays it so damn safe and falls back on the past and then wonder why their numbers are down across the board and end up blaming it on the young talent that they refuse to back or take a chance on. They have an absolutely made man if they do the fall of Lesnar right with a potential guy; it would be an absolute waste imo. to give that to a pissed off Taker just to add to the lore of the character that is already pretty much inarguably the kayfabe deepest in WWE history. Why in the blue hell break the streak, have a historic dismantling of the franchise guy and have one guy play the closest thing to Jason Voorheese to build this historically strong monster just to have it all snake around for a fifty year old man that has nothing to gain from it except add to lore that again is already perhaps the deepest in wwe history. You have SO MUCH YOUNG TALENT RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE ANYTIME YOU READ THE DAMN ROSTER CARD THAT NEEDS BACKING!

Whew, sorry. Maybe I should've put that in rants.


----------



## mezomi (Jul 13, 2013)

Sheamus/Orton: **3/4
PTP/New Day: **3/4
Reigns/Wyatt: ***1/2 (despite not being the highest rating, it was my MOTN)
Divas triple threat: **3/4
Cena/Owens: ***3/4 (dinged for being stale)
Lesnar/Rollins: N/R (It cant be called a dud but it cant be rated either)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Sheamus/Orton: *
PTP/New Day: ***1/4
Reigns/Wyatt: **
Divas triple threat: **1/2
Cena/Owens: Didn't get to see yet
Lesnar/Rollins: ***


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

OMFG YES. :mark: :mark:

COMING BACK TO RECTIFY THE 1 in 22-1. YOU'RE GOD DAMN RIGHT HE IS. O.M.F.G. YESSSSSSSSSS :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Pretty sure my UNDERTAKER BONER ain't going down until he leaves again after SummerSlam .

:mark: awesome awesome awesome :mark:. Though I did :lmao at him a lot... instead of looking evil and intimidating these days, he tends to look like a confused old man :lmao.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Orton/Sheamus - ***
Primetime/New Day - **3/4
Reigns/Wyatt - ***1/4
Divas - *
Cena/Owens - ****
Lesnar/Rollins - DUD

Lesnar hits 13 or whatever suplexes with Rollins diving over the rope three times to jump on him. Undertaker returning is just awful.

Some good matches but for months we've had Lesnar/Rollins built up for it to be turned yet again into Part time City. These old cunts need to just fuck off.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Well tonight should be interesting. Brock to go fucking apeshit id imagine and Taker, :shrug


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Randy Orton vs Sheamus - ***¼ (That mega pop for Orton made me smile and it was better than usual for this match-up)
Bray Wyatt vs Roman Reigns - *** (Solid stuff for two average workers but it does feel like they could've cut 5 minutes and gotten to the big part faster)
John Cena vs Kevin Owens - ***½ (It gets tiring to see the same MOVEZ~! spammed formula done over and over. Also dumb finish that diminishes Owens' character. The AA is also not a finisher anymore.)
Seth Rollins vs Brock Lesnar - * (What a let down. Match consisted of little more than Brock suplexing Rollins around for the little time it got then Undertaker randomly shows up and we get a non-finish. Even my little brother who is soon to be 10 asked what happened and when I told him, he questioned the stupidity of it by pointing out that the streak ended a year ago and Taker already showed up to wrestle Wyatt at WM31.)

I love the Undertaker but I was not excited one bit because A) I saw it coming thanks to spoilers B) there's no need for any sort of closure between him and Brock after they ignored it for so long. But I see the positive in most things and on my quest to get what I want there may be some good. Here's hoping Taker beats Brock at SummerSlam and Brock goes back to actually having normal matches instead of this suplex city nonsense. It was fun the first couple of times but now it's getting tiring because every match is the same. They were building up to him facing Rollins all this time and then gave us this sorry excuse for a main event yesterday. It will also be great if Brock goes back to being heel since it increases the odds for my dream match that I've talked about a million times before.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Didn't watch anything from the PPV other than the main event, and I'm gonna have to echo the sentiments of Choke2Death. I can't stand suplex city anymore. It made sense against Cena at Summerslam because that match was supposed to prove a point. At this point though, we already get that Brock can suplex anyone he wants a million times in the match, but it creates a very dull experience that limits both Brock and the guy he is working with. Why take away Brock's once-diverse offense for this? The only other thing Brock does nowadays other than suplexes are stiff strikes that are only done for shock value. It just reeks of WWE taking something that was once cool and then driving it to the ground.

I love Undertaker more than even Cal, but Choke2Death is correct when he said that there's no need for a closure in the Lesnar/Taker feud. I did not see the old Deadman at Battleground like cjack did. Instead, I saw a guy whose body is shutting down and can't even walk upright anymore. Regardless, it is still a pleasure to see Taker show up outside of Mania season (which he didn't even do this year), but unless if this leads to a triple threat where Rollins beats both Lesnar and Taker I don't see the reason for any of this.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I love Undertaker more than even Cal


:lmao


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Would've been better if Taker came back for a match with Brock at the Rumble, so Taker could be the 1 in 5-1 in Brock's Rumble record.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Big Cal's World said:


> Pretty sure my UNDERTAKER BONER ain't going down until he leaves again after SummerSlam .
> 
> :mark: awesome awesome awesome :mark:. Though I did :lmao at him a lot... instead of looking evil and intimidating these days, he tends to look like a confused old man :lmao.


It probably says something when, after my first initial "OHMYGODOHMYGODOHMYGOD ITS TAKER" reaction, my next reaction after that was "I betcha Cal has erupted into a glowing ball of joy. I bet Cal already has his Undertaker drinking cup out, I bet Cal has already started scheming on how he's gonna get tickets to Summerslam" :lmao. It says I've spent way too much time chatting with you shit heads and listening to Cal's videos while I'm at work. Oh well.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Didn't watch anything from the PPV other than the main event, and I'm gonna have to echo the sentiments of Choke2Death. I can't stand suplex city anymore. It made sense against Cena at Summerslam because that match was supposed to prove a point. At this point though, we already get that Brock can suplex anyone he wants a million times in the match, but it creates a very dull experience that limits both Brock and the guy he is working with. Why take away Brock's once-diverse offense for this? The only other thing Brock does nowadays other than suplexes are stiff strikes that are only done for shock value. It just reeks of WWE taking something that was once cool and then driving it to the ground.
> 
> I love Undertaker more than even Cal, but Choke2Death is correct when he said that there's no need for a closure in the Lesnar/Taker feud. I did not see the old Deadman at Battleground like cjack did. Instead, I saw a guy whose body is shutting down and can't even walk upright anymore. Regardless, it is still a pleasure to see Taker show up outside of Mania season (which he didn't even do this year), but unless if this leads to a triple threat where Rollins beats both Lesnar and Taker I don't see the reason for any of this.


You said you saw a guy whose body was shutting down and couldn't even walk upright. Okay, but did you watch the NBA finals from 2014? Tim Duncan can't walk upright, he plays on one friggin leg! Watch him, he legit can only move 1 leg, and he's still playing 38 minutes a game putting up 22-11-4 stat lines and playing all world defense. My favorite sports writer Bill Simmmons made the best cross sport comparison ever when he said Tim Duncan is the Undertaker of the NBA. It's true in so many different ways if you think about it.

My point is, I wasn't even looking at Takers leg or how he walked. Everyone is talking about him stumbling, I swear to God I never ever saw him stumble. I had 100% of my attention focused on his eyes, I couldn't look anywhere else even if I tried to. Flair was older than Taker and more wrinkly and saggy in 2005 when he had my favorite in ring year for him outside of his famous 1989. Taker doesn't need to work a full schedule, he doesn't need to work any schedule. It's 1 match, 1 15 or minute match, with an Undertaker who you KNOW is looking to show everyone that WM 30 was a fluke, that he can and will still steal the show and deliver a MOTYC when called upon. 

I'm sorry, two lackluster performances at the past 2 Manias, 1 which is 100% defensible considering he was knocked out cold and had no idea where he was, is not enough for me to lose faith in my childhood hero. He's been doing this for too long, is too good, and has too strong a character for me to doubt him. A 15 minute match, if they do 1 huge spot causing both to get knocked down so they get a 30 second or so breather, should still be something Undertaker can pull off and knock out do the park, especially with a talent like Lesnar. Brock won't be able to do his Suplex City routine on Taker, I expect them to have a prize fight/slugfest type of match. Taker can do that, he can still sell better than pretty much anyone alive (or dead), and Brock ain't that far behind in that department either.



Big Cal's World said:


> :lmao


Yea I'll give this one to you. I thought I was one of the worlds biggest Taker fans until I encountered you and read literally every single review you've ever written. You got me beat hahaha. I'll just settle for the worlds biggest Eddie fan


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My Undertaker drinking glass broke a couple of weeks ago . It shattered, along with my heart.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Chris, dude, once you get past the excitement of the Undertaker, haven't you been saying for months how shitty Rollins' title reign and his overall character have been booked? You can't tell me this didn't bother you in that department. This match had a literal 3 month build to wind up being absolutely nothing. Worthless. 

It really just doesn't even make sense to me right now. Taker kicked Lesnar square in the balls. Why did that happen? Lesnar beat the guy fair and square a year and a half ago. What the hell took him so long to wanna "rectify" anything? Is he a pissed off old man now instead of a broken down old man? Taker just cost Lesnar the WWE Championship. Are the fans gonna forget that happened once Rollins comes out with the belt tonight? Are they supposed to boo Lesnar for literally no reason? Wtf is going on? I'm an Undertaker fan but this felt so unnecessary to me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brock gave Undertaker a concussion. Maybe that's why 'Taker is so pissed?


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

undertaker is obviously THE FUTURE.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Chris, dude, once you get past the excitement of the Undertaker, haven't you been saying for months how shitty Rollins' title reign and his overall character have been booked? You can't tell me this didn't bother you in that department. This match had a literal 3 month build to wind up being absolutely nothing. Worthless.
> 
> It really just doesn't even make sense to me right now. Taker kicked Lesnar square in the balls. Why did that happen? Lesnar beat the guy fair and square a year and a half ago. What the hell took him so long to wanna "rectify" anything? Is he a pissed off old man now instead of a broken down old man? Taker just cost Lesnar the WWE Championship. Are the fans gonna forget that happened once Rollins comes out with the belt tonight? Are they supposed to boo Lesnar for literally no reason? Wtf is going on? I'm an Undertaker fan but this felt so unnecessary to me.


You aren't wrong with anything you said, you are mistaking my excitement for this surprise Taker return with me actually thinking the way this was done was in any way, shape, form, or fashion a good idea. It wasn't.

I'm just too much of a fan boy for Undertaker to let WWE's stupidity ruin that moment or my excitement at seeing him again.

That said, yeah I agree 100%. WWE executed this about as poorly as you possibly can. Like, if they came up to me and said "What's the worst plausible way to have a surprise Taker return?" I might not have even come up with something this bad.

For one, they shit on the fans who paid money to see Rollins/Lesnar. Why couldn't Rollins and Lesnar work an exciting, back and forth, 20 minute classic that results in SETH looking like a million bucks against Brock? Like, Brock can do his Suplex City deal for 5 minutes or so, but they needed to devote a large portion of that match to back and forth, give and take, physical, beastly wrestling were Seth finally proves he can hang with the best. I'm talking Seth methodically working over Brock's leg, outsmarting and out cunning Brock, just taking the fight straight to him. The story could be Brock over looked Seth because of how unimpressive he has been since winning the title, so after the match starts with Brock going all "Suplex City" for 5 minutes just rag dolling Seth, he lets his guard down and makes a simple mistake allowing Seth to pounce on him with an unexpected amount of intensity and aggression. Seth's got Brock rocking and reeling, he's worked Brock over good, Heyman starts to worry and slides a chair into the ring behind the refs back...Brock notices it, Brock finally grits his teeth, tightens his boots, starts to fight back, goes to F5 Seth on the chair...only Seth counters his F-5 attempt into a tornado DDT, right into the chair, knocking the ref down and knocking Brock OUT. Seth slowly struggles to his feet, and his just bout to crawl over to pin Brock when.....GONG...Taker comes in, delivers a Last Ride to Seth, Tombstones Brock, walks over to the down ref who is shaking the cobwebs loose and says "You can ring the bell now" and makes a bad ass exit. 


Scene.

Seth comes out looking great, Brock doesn't lose any credibility, there is nothing ambiguous about whether Taker is a face or heel, he's just Taker and he decided to get his revenge right when Brock was thinking he got away Scott free. Give Taker 1 interview on Raw the following night, have him explain he had do deal with "the New Face of Fear" Bray Wyatt calling him out before he got to Brock. But that Taker never forgot about what Brock did, he was just biding his time, waiting until the exact right moment to strike.


How hard was that? I thought of that in like 10 seconds. There was no need for WWE to shit can the entire Seth/Brock angle and match just so Brock would look the most microscopic amount stronger than he already does. You're telling me Brock wouldn't be credible enough to face Taker if he had a 20 minute classic with Seth where he only gets knocked out because of a chair? Psshhhh. Seth needed a classic encounter with Brock to boost his credibility, WWE is ducking retarded for shit canning that match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

That's my thought process at the moment regarding Undertaker. 

I love the guy and I'm always stoked like fuck when he comes back, but the booking last night was just WTF is going on worthy imo.

You had the crowd bring all for Lesnar, the big babyface, he's aboit to fully destroy Rollins, then be gets ambushed, kicked in the knackers and took two Tombstones. 

I doubt Taker is suddenly the heel either tbh, it's just a way to force boos on Brock again for the time being.

Last night made Brock look pretty shit too tbh. The whole thing just has me scratching my head. I was never keen on a rematch, and it makes less sense the more I think about it. If Taker also goes over, my my.

Contrary to what some people have said, Taker looked pretty good I thought. It's just a haphazard way to bring him back.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Chris, dude, once you get past the excitement of the Undertaker, haven't you been saying for months how shitty Rollins' title reign and his overall character have been booked? You can't tell me this didn't bother you in that department. This match had a literal 3 month build to wind up being absolutely nothing. Worthless.
> 
> It really just doesn't even make sense to me right now. Taker kicked Lesnar square in the balls. Why did that happen? Lesnar beat the guy fair and square a year and a half ago. What the hell took him so long to wanna "rectify" anything? Is he a pissed off old man now instead of a broken down old man? Taker just cost Lesnar the WWE Championship. Are the fans gonna forget that happened once Rollins comes out with the belt tonight? Are they supposed to boo Lesnar for literally no reason? Wtf is going on? I'm an Undertaker fan but this felt so unnecessary to me.


I agree with this point of view. It's defnitely split opinion but I found it to be pretty retarded.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brock was never a babyface. That's the kicker. He just wanted to kill Seth Rollins, who happens to be the top heel in the company. That's no out for the booking last night, but it's just that fact that has to be mentioned when so many were certain Brock went face. He didn't. 

and the fact Taker was immediately loved when killing Brock last night, well, it proved those many who weren't pleased in the slightest that Brock won still want to see this take place. And in WWE's eyes; Taker getting revenge on Lesnar > Rollins as WWE Champion. Sadly. _(to some degree. I realize I can't have my cake and eat it too.)_


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> It probably says something when, after my first initial "OHMYGODOHMYGODOHMYGOD ITS TAKER" reaction, my next reaction after that was "I betcha Cal has erupted into a glowing ball of joy. I bet Cal already has his Undertaker drinking cup out, I bet Cal has already started scheming on how he's gonna get tickets to Summerslam" :lmao. It says I've spent way too much time chatting with you shit heads and listening to Cal's videos while I'm at work. Oh well.


I laugh every time I see Chavo dropkick for a couple reasons like this one.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Those Tombstone piledrivers looked shaky as fuck.

To quote someone else, they're also ruining an organic Brock face turn for this. Seeing Brock sell fear for Taker when he can't even for the main roster, speaks volumes about why this is so stupid.

You've built Brock up, so keep his mystique up.

Also way to make a match that had a ton of buildup & could've been a great big man vs. little man match, into a total and complete afterthought.

I think that Vince saw the ratings and house show numbers and panicked. If this was the long-term plan, he's even more ridiculous than I thought.

What a waste of Lesnar, AND what a waste of your WWE champion for short-term glory.

Still can't use Lesnars limited appearances for newly built starts, eh? No momentum to be had.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

*WWE BATTLEGROUND 2015 JULY 19 REVIEW*



















*PRE-SHOW: BATTLE OF THE KINGS MATCH*
King What's Up? vs King Barrett
***1/4
Barrett's crown was on the line in this match. Not gonna lie though, this was a pretty good match. But holy shit Barrett is ripped. And Truth is naturally charismatic. Some nice power moves. The final two minutes were exciting. That bullhammer tho! :banderas










*OPENING MATCH*
Randy Orton vs Sheamus
***3/4
This was a great match, even though these guys fought each other a million times before. This time was different though because Orton is from St. Louis. The start of the match was slow, but things started to pick up later on. Good psychology throughout the match from both guys. I guess that's why Orton and Sheamus are often branded as boring. Because they focus on psychology. Anyway, I loved all the counters in this match. It was great.



















*TAG TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP REMATCH *
Big E & Kofi Kingston (New Day) vs Titus O'Neil & Darren Young (Prime Time Players) (c)
***1/4
Good match. New Day is so over. Young impressed me the most. But Big E's apron splash was epic.



















*MATCH OF JUSTICE*
Bray Wyatt vs Roman Reigns
***1/4
This match started off boring as fuck. But Wyatt had some interesting psychology when he put Reigns in a chokehold for 20 minutes. As the match progressed, they did some cool sequences. Not much else to say about this one.




















*TRIPLE THREAT DIVAS MATCH*
Sasha Banks vs Charlotte vs Brie Bella
***1/2
This match had hype from the very beginning. Sasha is such a boss. She did an amazing corner spot to both Charlotte and Brie. And I love her Flair imitation. Charlotte was also really awesome. Brie sucks monkey balls compared to these girls. Why does she think she is Daniel Bryan? LOL.




























*UNITED STATES CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH*
Kevin Owens vs John Cena (c)
****
Great match. Lots of offense from both guys. The KO fans just made this match so special. I thought there was a double-turn involved, but nope, just teasing the marks. Cool spots throughout the match. But the formula is becoming repetitive. Big move, pin, kick out, some close-up shots, repeat. Ending was weak. This match had potential to be so much better.




























*WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH*
Brock Lesnar vs Seth Rollins (c)
****
Another great match. Great story. What was it, like 13 suplexes? Jesus Christ. :mark: Also, I loved Rollins plan of attack. He targeted Lesnar's lower limbs to keep him off his feet. It didn't really feel like a wrestling match. It was more about drama and suspense. But BAHGAWD the ending. :mark: However, I was disappointed that the match could not continue. I wanted it to be longer, and I wanted to see the rest of Rollins' strategy to take down the beast.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Regardless of the shoddy long-term implications of it all, admittedly that Brock/Taker RAW segment was just great.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

LilOlMe said:


> Regardless of the shoddy long-term implications of it all, admittedly that Brock/Taker RAW segment was just great.


Yeah seriously. The first hour of RAW has been pretty damn entertaining and I like how Heyman explained the scenario.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Helped all the more by the fact that the commentators left. Contributed to the chaotic feeling, by just letting it all play out & hearing all of the sounds.

Wasn't too fond of Heyman's speech, because I felt it was just all stating the obvious, but I guess some new viewers need that. He ended it amazingly, though. Just great.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

It really helped for me that he said Taker WAITED all this time to exact his revenge on Lesnar. That was the kicker. When Taker said it was his resurrection, I thought it was pretty stupid because he'd already wrestled Wyatt, but Heyman made everything better. 

Over an hour into RAW though and no sign of Rollins... he better not face Ambrose again. :lol


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Never mind anything I said earlier. That brawl was fucking awesome. :mark:


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Brock "I'm gonna kill you"

Taker "you're gonna have to". While that is a bit of a character misspoke since the Undertaker character is a supernatural Deadman (or maybe that is why Taker said it), but that was still a badass verbal exchange. Very nice build. Something that I don't think people think about too often since Taker rarely showed this side outside of heel ABA: Calloway in another small part of one of, arguably the goat gimmick performance collective has been not letting anyone get a verbal jab over on Taker to soften him/make the audience laugh at him. Even when the Rock would try, Taker retorted with something ala the famous "your mouth is writing checks your ass can't cash" or with the WHAT chants "say what if you sleep with your sisters" or what we just heard. Almost never has let someone hang a verbal jab over him to give off any vulnerability. A true pro's pro. Again, bravo with that segment. 

I had extraordinarily high hopes at Mania, and largely due to an injury where Taker risked brain damage, that was slashed, but with Taker looking in better physical shape than he has been in I'd say since 27 and hopefully more healthy, we could really get something here. I wouldn't sleep on this too much. With Taker's size perhaps neuturalizing the Suplex City schtick abit, perhaps we get a cross between a scrappy, slightly dirty fighting old man Taker ala Bruce in the Dark Knight Returns against Brock in the Bane role trying to break the Bat's back with that arsenal of moves impacting the back Lesnar has but recently hasn't tapped into much, or hell we could get an awesome slugfest. All I'm saying is "get your popcorn ready". This could be real good and I'm far from counting Taker out with as big of a fan as I am.


----------



## Mr Heisenberg (Oct 23, 2013)

if anybody is interested in 2 summerslam tickets, PM me. They arent face value which is obvious now, but they are face value of what I got them off of stubhub!!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I got home too late to watch Raw so I decided to pump myself up for Takers return by watching one of his old matches I haven't seen in a while. Just so happened that the DVD that's sitting closest to the sofa was the "History of the WHC" set so I flipped a coin (literally, I actually flipped a coin because I couldn't decide) between the NWO 2006 bout with Angle and the Armageddon 2007 with Edge and Batista. NWO won out, I hadnt seen it in two years, where I gave it ****3/4. Let's see if it holds up.


YUP :mark: :mark: :mark:

I don't care what anyone says, the last 8 minutes of this match are maybe 8 of the finest minutes of any WWE match I can remember, and that finishing stretch is only possible because of how masterfully they built to it for the first 25 or so minutes. They didn't just waste time dicking around and trading moves until it was time to go into your standard WWE style "hot finish". No, they took their time building the story slowly, layer by layer, so that it flowed seamlessly into that impossibly awesome finishing stretch. Taker working over Angles arm/shoulder/midsection, Angle working over Takers leg, Angle proving he can outwrestle Taker when it comes down to the mat but Taker proving his striking is so superior to Angles that it's going to be tough for Angle to get in close enough without catching some serious jabs and crosses.

It's all so sensible and easy to understand, so let's just all agree it's almost 100% certain that Taker dictated this match 

I was also pleased that one of the things I hated most about this match the last time I watched it was nothing actually to take exception with. Obviously this match is near perfect as it is, but one spot stuck out like a sore thumb to me and I just hated it so much on my last viewing because it was so un-Taker like to do this. I'm talking about how, after Taker has reversed Angles Irish whip outside and whipped Angle into the steel steps, Taker grabs Angle, tosses him in the ring, then instead of continuing to take the advantage Taker randomly, for no earthly reason whatsoever it seems, decides he wants to be Rey Mysterio and starts slowly climbing the top rope. He takes his time climbing up until finally Angle gets up and runs over to do that belly to belly off the top rope spot. I can't tell you how much I hated seeing that the first time. It was the dumbest thing ever, Undertaker would never in a million years climb up to the top rope in that situation, I assumed Angle had just insisted that Taker climb up to the top rope so he could Suplex him off it. That's literally what it looked like, like Taker just up and decided "meh, instead of continuing this beat down so I can win the WHC, I'll just go up to the top rope so Kurt can Suplex me off."

That all changed on this viewing. What Taker was actually doing was buying Angle some time because his throat was seriously fucked up after being accidently jammed right in the throat by that wood cover that goes on the announce table. I always assumed Angle didn't actually hot that piece of table with his throat, that he just barely grazed it and realized it would look great if he sold it. This time however I saw that Angle seriously hit his Adams apple hard right on the edge of that table cover, a piece of wood just jammed right into his throat. He was seriously hurting there, so Taker gently rolled him in and slowly, steadily, climbed the rope so the fans eyes would all be on him and how crazy it was to see him climb to the top rope, and not on Angle writhing in pain on the mat. Finally Angle catches his breath or just sucks it up and gets up to continue the match. 

Although, now I'm wondering, what if Angle didn't recover in time, or what if Angle didn't pick up on what Taker was doing and just stayed down on the mat? What would Taker have done? A moonsault? Frog splash? 450 splash? Swanton Bomb? Damn. Now I wish Angle would have just stayed down, picturing Taker do a moonsault or 450 splash cracks me up :lmao

I simply can't fault the match for that spot anymore when it wasn't planned and was necessary to buy Angle some time. Taker did something similar with Mick in their HiaC match by inexplicably climbing the ropes to do "Old School" when Mick had already been through hell and was out cold. In actuality Mick was legitimately not all there yet so Taker climbed the ropes allowing Mick to crotch him on them and buy time.

So yea, Taker/Angle NWO 06' still rules the world. Can't decide if I still prefer the SD 03' match or not. Hard to choose.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Really had a good time with RAW tonight. The Taker/Lesnar brawl was the obvious highlight, but both women's matches were good stuff and the Reigns/Wyatt continuation was great. At least Ambrose is actually involved in something now.  Main event wasn't exactly a great match, but it was damn good entertainment. My inner Orton mark broke out again. That Cesaro Swing into the RKO. :clap

No clue what they're planning on doing with that Rollins & Cena segment, but I'm hoping it was just a one night thing. Rollins really doesn't have any challengers lined up at this point and they don't need to throw Cesaro & Owens to the curb just so Cena can face Rollins in some kind of champion vs. champion match.

For some really strange reason, I'm hoping next week or the week after Kane returns in the mask to FINALLY beat the shit out of Rollins and that can be our WWE Title match at Summerslam. I mean, it would be a pretty speedy recovery from a "broken ankle", but stranger things have happened.  It's been building and building for months and I bet the Big Red Machine would get a hell of a pop too. 

Seems like Rusev vs. Ziggler is imminent or even a mixed tag match. No problems with either one. Looks like they're gonna keep dragging this PTP/New Day feud out because there's no toher teams in that division. No clue what to do with Orton or Sheamus, so they'll probably just throw them together in a gimmick match. :lol


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

That Taker/Lesnar segment is seriously one of the best in quite some time. from start to finish. Heyman did his job as well. 'I'm just a human being' :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> That Taker/Lesnar segment is seriously one of the best in quite some time. from start to finish. Heyman did his job as well. 'I'm just a human being' :lmao


:mark: It really was. Heyman was fucking GOLD, then the brawl. My oh my, where did that come from.

Im sure Heyman has some involvement this time over the writing in the feud, because i never expected anything like that to happen.

I loved it for the fact it was two big bastards, not being scared of each other, just going at it. Didn't give a fuck, the quotes from Lesnar and Taker too, FUCK THIS WAS GREAT, IT WAS FUCKING GREAT.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

That brawl was so fucking hot. So much better than their Wrestlemania build. I'm honestly pumped for Summerslam. :mark:


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Brock said:


> :mark: It really was. Heyman was fucking GOLD, then the brawl. My oh my, where did that come from.
> 
> Im sure Heyman has some involvement this time over the writing in the feud, because i never expected anything like that to happen.
> 
> I loved it for the fact it was two big bastards, not being scared of each other, just going at it. Didn't give a fuck, the quotes from Lesnar and Taker too, FUCK THIS WAS GREAT, IT WAS FUCKING GREAT.


 WWE did superbly to build the brawl up from the beginning off the show. From Taker's opening promo to HHH and Stephanie announcing the match at Summerslam and to Heyman coming to the ring. Even the commentators did their part. They did well to build the tensions up when they said 'i'm leaving' as soon as Lesnar's entrance hit. It took 50 guys to separate them. In a different matter, I laughed when I saw Bo Dallas so close to Lesnar in the backstage. I wanted Dallas to say 'Brock you gotta BO-lieve that you can win the brawl' or any inspirational shit that he comes up with.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

When Taker kicked off the show, JBL, Cole and Byron were ploughing out Taker facts. I' m sure Byron Saxton said "JBL had fought Taker more than anyone else in WWE."

Vince really is going senile, isn't he?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Brock said:


> When Taker kicked off the show, JBL, Cole and Byron were ploughing out Taker facts. I' m sure Byron Saxton said "JBL had fought Taker more than anyone else in WWE."
> 
> Vince really is going senile, isn't he?


Especially when Kane is sitting right there as an active member of the current roster. Since 1998 I don't think 2 guys have wrestled more often than Kane and Taker. Orton/Cena has been done a ton but I don't think they even approach the amount of times Kane and Taker have wrestled, all the tags, all the house shows, TV matches, PPV's, etc.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Mankind probably has a claim to that fact as well, certainly more than Jibble .


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Taker thing was terrible. Bad idea but even worse execution. The show as a whole reeked of desperate panic with Taker and Cena winning to go back into the main event it seems. Honestly I probably would have popped for Taker if they hadn't ruined the moment with that Wyatt mess this year and it wasn't so heavily rumoured/spoiled beforehand. I get the sense that WWE is fine with these things being sorta leaked too which absolutely sucks because it kills the surprise without the benefit of confirming the appearance. Then Taker low blowed Brock and I was in total shock for a second because hello Undertaker was acting like a total dickhead at this stage. For no fair reason interrupts a Title match to cost Brock the Title, keep the Title on snivelling weasel Seth Rollins and then he fucking delivers a cheap shot like that? Fuck that guy. I have no idea if it was intended to be making Taker the heel or if it was just bad execution but either way is abysmal. Making Taker heel is just utterly retarded because shockingly nobody wanted to boo UNDERTAKER. Plus it kills just turned babyface Lesnar. Or Taker is still babyface and they think how he acted makes him a good guy. Or they're in a daft phase of lol blurred lines faces and heels don't work anymore. They can't book Brock properly. If he's untouchable in a match then he should be untouchable period. Brock's "oh shit it's you" face was godly btw but again only really works if Taker never came back after the Brock defeat and everyone brought him being gone for good. So now they're working Summerslam and lel if Taker wins and beats Brock. Match itself wasn't much. Never been huge on Brock just suplexing someone all match even the first time. It sucks because he's so much more. I'd love to see just once "Brock go out there and show off how athletic you can be". That leap over the barricade. Sweet jesus. Sucked for Rollins but whatever. It's hard to get invested in matches that are so obviously having a fuck finish which is like every other match.

Cena/Owens was nothing new bar the end which sucks if you're not high on the previous matches. Cena tapping Owens is baffling and why you're an idiot if you get invested in anyone's push because it will end just as soon as it starts and then it'll start up again later down the road. Super AA kick out was pretty sweet for the reaction but it just made me furious with WWE for killing finishers and having to resort to that just to get a great kickout pop. Owens should have never lost once he kicked out of that either. I know the logic is we'll give him that as he's losing but it doesn't really work like that. Cena hit his first AA and I was on my phone and didn't even glance up to see what happened. Divas 3 way was at best average. It's just new people. Still Divas trying to do too much too fast but this time with more people and more time. It seemed longer than usual anyway. HEEL BRIE BELLA doing DANIEL BRYAN'S signature kicks to a huge pop was hysterical. Commentary made me want the girls to all fail which is horrible and not what I want but if it stops JBL and Cole calling whatever this is is a revolution then it's a net positive. If you're shouting at something and calling it a revolution the moment it starts it's not a revolution. It's fucking terrible. Wyatt/Reigns I probably liked more than anything else but it basically came down to it had the most spots I got a kick out of. I don't think Wyatt has done anything good besides that one match with Bryan and that one with Ziggler on Raw but he does hit meaty clotheslines which I like. That apron dropkick reversal spot looked sooooo good because Reigns didn't back out of it. Oh yeah even WWE are now whoring out the apron slams now. It just baffles me how WWE for so long shit on the Indies and everything about them and now that's exactly what the whole place is like nearly. Lel at the least suspenseful reveal ever with Harper too and lel at them being put back together. It's a net positive but duh they should have never split. Apparently Summerslam is Reigns/Ambrose/Sting vs Wyatt/Harper/New Wyatt Guy which still makes me laugh. Saw on PWO people hyping up a Reigns/Harper match and I can definitely see them having a great Smackdown match in the coming weeks. PTP/TND was pretty fun for the time it got. Woods is amazing. Titus is pretty great at what he gets to do in there. Those chop spots were awesome. Always amazed WWE of all places never do anything with a guy like Titus. He's got charisma too. Kofi is so far behind Woods and Big E in the goofy charisma department but to his credit he did do this awesome thing with his legs when they were dancing. Oh and Big E said "this is me reaping". They're awesome. Orton/Sheamus was a match. Sheamus has been booked like a total geek since he came back apart from that one time when he won MONEY IN THE FUCKING BANK.*


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Rusev is everything.



Seabs said:


> * They can't book Brock properly. If he's untouchable in a match then he should be untouchable period. Brock's "oh shit it's you" face was godly btw but again only really works if Taker never came back after the Brock defeat and everyone brought him being gone for good. So now they're working Summerslam and lel if Taker wins and beats Brock.
> 
> Cena/Owens was nothing new bar the end which sucks if you're not high on the previous matches. Cena tapping Owens is baffling and why you're an idiot if you get invested in anyone's push because it will end just as soon as it starts and then it'll start up again later down the road. Super AA kick out was pretty sweet for the reaction but it just made me furious with WWE for killing finishers and having to resort to that just to get a great kickout pop. Owens should have never lost once he kicked out of that either. I know the logic is we'll give him that as he's losing but it doesn't really work like that. Cena hit his first AA and I was on my phone and didn't even glance up to see what happened. Divas 3 way was at best average. It's just new people. Still Divas trying to do too much too fast but this time with more people and more time. It seemed longer than usual anyway. HEEL BRIE BELLA doing DANIEL BRYAN'S signature kicks to a huge pop was hysterical. Commentary made me want the girls to all fail which is horrible and not what I want but if it stops JBL and Cole calling whatever this is is a revolution then it's a net positive. If you're shouting at something and calling it a revolution the moment it starts it's not a revolution. It's fucking terrible.
> 
> but to [Kofi's] credit he did do this awesome thing with his legs when they were dancing.*


YES to all of this!


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Raw was outstanding from a modern WWE point of view.

They are building the US title, a MIDCARD title, to mean something. This is something a lot of us have wanted for years. The mid card belt to mean something. Okay, they seemed to insinuate that it's bigger then the main belt on Raw, but still they're making it mean something and that's great going forward. With those who are involved in the actual title too, the likes of Rusev, Cesaro, Owens. The title has a good future I feel, especially considering the likes of Zayn will probably be involved in it too when he's back from injury. A shame the same cannot be said about the Intercontinental title which is just a piece of shit at the moment, it desperately needs someone to take both belts Kurt Angle style and become a Interstates Champion.

Taker/Brock brawl was brilliant. It was so well done. People were comparing it to Cena/Lesnar from a few years back but this was better. Heyman starting the whole thing off and selling Summerslam was brilliant and got me pumped before Taker even appeared, Heymans reactions to Takers music, appearance etc were just typical Heyman being gold, the little "I'm a human being" line was just great off the cuff stuff - Lesnars pop was one of the biggest I've heard and that is when the goosebumps started and they didn't go down for a good ten minutes. "I WILL KILL YOU" - "YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO" - ah, these two just get wrestling. They've made me want Summerslam already. I don't think they'll top that but I hope that isn't the last we see of the two together.

Rollins is on a whole different planet right now too. He's killing it with his mic work every single time. He's getting ridiculous heat, which is great from a main event heel and we all know how good he is in the ring too. I wish they booked him a TAD stronger in the sense that he won't back down from a fight all the time and know when to back down (being the 'architect' and all) - but he's doing well with what's given to him. I just hope his next feud isn't Kane and they hopefully elevate someone to wrestle him at Summerslam, potentially making two stars. I don't want it to be Cena in a champion vs. champion match because I so want Rusev/Cesaro/Cena/Owens fatal four way, PLEASE!

In fact I'd say I enjoyed everything on the show. Surprisingly even the divas, nice to see they even got two matches, but with Charlotte and Sasha Banks involved, I'm not going to complain. They're really trying to take things serious now and I hope they keep it up. They have the talent to do so. Also New Day were brilliant, absolute gold and I wish they were the holders of the tag titles.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

*Orton vs Sheamus * - Sheamus centred his offense on Randy's back. The commentators nor Randy highlighted this. The Cloverleaf should have been more dramatic than it was. The finishing run should have been more dramatic than it was. Orton needs to retire, at this point. His formula is beyond tiresome, now. The whole comeback and over-tease to hitting the "final" RKO irks me, because it doesn't go into a flashy finisher counter spam (that you get in NJPW heavyweight matches) but, instead, leads to a worthless comeback by his oponent for a couple minutes before they get to the finisher trading. TNA's Ultimate X openers have more meaning than this match.


*New Day vs PTP* - Titus is the fucking man. This should have opened the PPV.


*Bray Wyatt vs Raymon Rones*- If this had gone into a full-out Memphis brawl as the opening shine had hinted at, in parts, I'd have wet myself. We got an extended FIP by Roman, so I still wet myself, but not quite to the extent I wanted to. A decisive step-down from his previous affairs, even if his performance was still admirable, but Bryan/Reigns, Reigns/Lesnar and Reigns/Show are so good that this didn't stand much of a chance of being a follow-up. THROW MEATY OFFENCE, SELL YOUR ASS OFF. That's what I love, and they did enough of it for me. I'm a happy guy, and I hope this is yet another example to help turn some of you into liking Reigns.


*Sasha Banks vs Charlotte vs Brie Bella* - In 2014 I saw one of the best wrestlers in the world lose his thought process in a three-way and bump out a horrible performance. In 2015 I saw it happen again. Three-ways do no justice. Wrestling can do much better than the plug&play style presented here, where everyone takes turns to be the controller, the one being controlled or the one resting on the outside. It doesn't allow a narrative to be built, nor does it allow for the spotlight to shine as it should have. if I pretended to be a new fan, I could take away that I'd love to see Charlotte/Sasha at some point, one-on-one, but I got the feeling Charlotte was so over, not because of her wrestling, but because of her heritage. If that gets the crowd invested, and some shine onto the division, then that's great. All I want. Well, not all I want. I'd be down for Alicia/Sasha when it inevitably happens on Superstars.


*John Cena vs Kevin Owens* - This happened. I kept being distracted, and every time I came back, the match didn't feel like it had moved anywhere. I loved their interactions, and I enjoyed the hell out of their first match, but it lost me after that. Cena hitting a throwaway FU during a replay pretty much sums up the match.


*Brock Lesnar vs Seth Rollins* - LOL fuck off.





Seabs said:


> Apparently Summerslam is Reigns/Ambrose/Sting vs Wyatt/Harper/New Wyatt Guy


You cannot be serious.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Well RAW was pretty great last night I thought for the most part.

I didn't like the end of the ppv but man, they sold me on Taker/Lesnar last night. Everything involving that was awesome. From Takers promo to Heyman's promo to Hunter and Steph trying to get everyone to stop them from destroying each other to the brawl itself and ending with Lesnar giving himself in but on the condition nobody touches him. I like that they haven't turned anyone heel, I guess Lesnar isn't really a heel or babyface but just an ass kicker, and Taker comes off the same. I just hope they can do something good in the match this time.

The Reigns/Ambrose/Wyatt's stuff was good, liked the match with Harper and Reigns and I really dig the Ambrose/Reigns team. Wyatt's work great as a team, I heard they're planning a 6 man for Summerslam so I have no idea who they're getting to join them since Rowan is out.

Cena/Rollins promo was fun but it did make the WWE title seem even less important. Rollins is an afterthought. I figured they'd set up his title match for Summerslam but nope. Unless they're doing Cena/Rollins which would suck balls. I hope not.

Divas got two matches, singles match wasn't good because Brie is awful but the tag was fun.

Main event was tons of fun. Loved the heels all being dicks and not being able to coexist. Poor Rusev.

I actually liked the Rusev/Lana stuff. Rusev kissing Summer in front of Lana and then nonchalantly looking at Lana and saying 'I will go for my match now' was fucking hilarious. He's amazing.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I should have the Liger/Sano (09/20/1989) full match this week if anyone wants it uploading.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think I liked Reigns/Wyatt more than Reigns/Lesnar. Right now it's the best feud going for me, and hopefully Sting stays away from it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Just bought tickets for the girlfriend and I to go see a WWE House Show in Hampton, VA on September 4th. Excited as usual. Gonna be my 3rd WWE event this year after not a 9 year drought. The damn announced talent keeps changing though and it's pissing me off. Cena is the headliner but Rollins & Ambrose were originally advertised for the show too. Now Rollins has been pulled completely and Ambrose got switched over to the Roman Reigns side of the tour that weekend. Oh well. Still got Owens, Sheamus, Neville, Ziggler, & Rusev. (Y)


----------



## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Obfuscation said:


> The match from Main Event was elite stuff. Wonder how many even knew it took place.


*sigh* Alright; I'm in. Who's got it?



Brock said:


> I should have the Liger/Sano (09/20/1989) full match this week if anyone wants it uploading.


:agree:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Bruce L said:


> *sigh* Alright; I'm in. Who's got it?


Do you have the network? (kinda guessing you don't since you're asking, but what the hell) If so, it's on there. Main Event 3/18/2014. I looked throughout Youtube and DM and couldn't find it, unless Cal has it on a private link or something.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I could upload it. :shrug


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I think I liked Reigns/Wyatt more than Reigns/Lesnar. Right now it's the best feud going for me, and hopefully Sting stays away from it.


Ugh.


I'm gonna copy + paste what I said in another thread yesterday when someone called Reigns/Wyatt a great match:



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> So that qualified as good/great match for you guys, huh?
> 
> Sheesh, either the bar has sunk to incredible depths or I'm just out of touch at what a good/great match is.
> 
> ...


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I have a different viewpoint of the match than you do, although it's nowhere close to being as good as Brock/Reigns was. I see Reigns as being cautious out of the gate because he knows what Bray is capable of and he knows what kind of mind games he's been playing with him. The guy hasn't won a single match since Wyatt cost him money in the bank and that's in his head. Throughout the match you can see whenever Reigns gains a little bit of momentum, he is in fact cut off by a big move or a huge counter when he tries to get too aggressive. That's what I felt the story was. Bray was so in touch with Roman and so in tune with what he does, that he seemed to always know what was coming. I think there was a strong chinlock applied in there somewhere too that Reigns sold really well. I do kinda wish it started off with more fists flying, but otherwise I really enjoyed it. The physicality was great in the later minutes. Thought the finish was pretty cool too. When Reigns finally pins Wyatt down the line, I think the fans will erupt.

Your match does sound excellent though. You have a knack for that it seems.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I have a different viewpoint of the match than you do, although it's nowhere close to being as good as Brock/Reigns was. I see Reigns as being cautious out of the gate because he knows what Bray is capable of and he knows what kind of mind games he's been playing with him. The guy hasn't won a single match since Wyatt cost him money in the bank and that's in his head. Throughout the match you can see whenever Reigns gains a little bit of momentum, he is in fact cut off by a big move or a huge counter when he tries to get too aggressive. That's what I felt the story was. Bray was so in touch with Roman and so in tune with what he does, that he seemed to always know what was coming. I think there was a strong chinlock applied in there somewhere too that Reigns sold really well. I do kinda wish it started off with more fists flying, but otherwise I really enjoyed it. The physicality was great in the later minutes. Thought the finish was pretty cool too. When Reigns finally pins Wyatt down the line, I think the fans will erupt.
> 
> Your match does sound excellent though. You have a knack for that it seems.


The match they had and the way it played out in your eyes would be fine if this was a random match pairing on Raw between two guys who had never wrestled before and with say a title shot on the line.

When you have a firey baby face like Reigns is and you have a wicked and dastardly heel like Wyatt, and you have a deep seated personal issue involving Reigns child, it makes no sense to me whatsoever that they worked the match the way they did.

Maybe it's because on Saturday night I was bored and watched Eddie/Rey Judgement Day 2005 for about the 10th time and saw how Rey came into that match firing out of the gates like we have never seen in a Mysterio match. He came out swinging and was just throwing bombs at Eddie over and over forcing the ref to pull him off and separate them. 

I'm just saying, I'm noticing more and more that WWE matches aren't having any real baby face shine or heel heat period. You'll get mostly back and forth back and forth, maybe 1-2 minutes of heat or shine, back and forth back and forth, then finishing stretch. That's not the pro wrestling that I personalky enjoy or care to watch. There is no story telling there, the baby face is never in real peril and the heel is never being out worked by the baby face.

To me, and again this is just how I personally think wrestling should be presented, no actually how I think it NEEDS to be presented, is that the baby face will always win a 100% fair and square match. Even if the heel is a noted better mat technician or submission guy, the baby face needs to be presented as if he would win the match all things being perfectly equal.

That means you start the match out and the baby face needs to be on the offensive for a not insignificant amount of time. We will use your standard 20 minute match as the canvas. In a 20 minute Bray/Roman match, with how the feud is currently presented, Roman should be murdering Bray and Bray needs to be flying around and bumping for Roman for the first 6-7 minutes. Obviously I'm not saying it should be 100% Roman on offense, but for that first 6-7 minutes it should be like a 80-20 split. Every time Bray reverses an Irish whip on Roman, Roman comes back and cleans his clock with a clothesline. Everytime Bray throws a few forearms, Roman comes right back and hits him harder and more times.

That then leads to the cutoff. Ideally the heel needs to do something underhanded here, or in the case of the Reigns/Wyatt feud, Reigns understandable desire to murder Bray leads to him being over aggressive at some point allowing Bray to get on the advantage.

For the next 6-7 minutes, Bray needs to really get his heat. Again we are looking at something like an 80-20 split in favor of Bray. It would make sense if Bray attacked Roman's shoulder to prevent a spear and hurt his ability to deliver the superman punch with maximum force. So we make the big cutoff spot Roman going for the spear in his rage and Bray sidestepping him slightly causing Roman to go shoulder first into the ring post. 

Bray attacks the shoulder, whipping him into the apron, smashing him into the post again, throwing him into the steps, the announce table, etc. Roll Roman in the ring, stomp his shoulder, wrench his shoulder, tie his arm around the ropes and deliver pounding blows to his shoulder. Romans part is equally important here, he needs to sell like his shoulder is dislocated and can barely move his arm, wincing and grimacing in pain constantly. Every 90 seconds or so Roman should start try into Fire up a comeback, maybe with some opposite arm uppercuts, a back drop here or there, etc but every time he does Bray immediately targets the shoulder again and gets back on the offensive. Bray needs to be constantly talking to Roman, trying to break his spirit and pumping his own ego,

Finally, like I said in the other post, Bray gets a cross face chicken wing in or something, thinks he has Roman beat, but the angry Samoan will not give in and this is where we get the big firey comeback. Brays bouncing around again, Roman is trying to put him away, but his shoulder is just destroyed so when that spear comes Bray is ready to counter into Sister Abigail and grab his W.

That's telling a story to me. When you tell the right story in a match it rarely matters who wins a match because both will come out looking great. If they do that match exactly as I said it, Roman isn't hurt because no fan watching wouldn't sympathize with a guy who becomes consumed with rage when his family is threatened, and then is unable to seal a victory because he had the misfortune of suffering a dislocated shoulder while exacting his revenge on Wyatt. Remember, Roman has Bray at his mercy to start the match and during the last 2-3 minute portion where he was THIS close to sealing the deal before that damn shoulder ruined his spear. 

Bray looks amazing coming out because not only did he get his victory, he some how manages to validate all the shit he has talked in the build up. He is the most detestable of bad guys, a guy who will go after another's family, talk truck loads of shit and pump his own ego up, and then throughh sheer luck manage to snatch victory out of the jaws of defeat because Reigns had the misfortune of being injured in the worst possible spot.

Tell me, when is the last non Brock Lesnar match where you saw both 1.) a real, prolonged, significant baby face shine period to start a match 2.) a real wicked heel cutoff spot that is achieved through underhanded tactics or through being conniving 3.) a prolonged heat period 4.) a baby face making a firey come back only to be thwarted at the last minute because of some injury or other story telling device that happened earlier in the match.

Can you guys think of one from 2014-2015? I'm struggling here.

Edit: Cesaro/Zayn ArRival 2014 fits the description. That's all I got so far. No surprises that 2 of the BitW worked a classic match.


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## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Jesus man, do you always have to have such long posts? :lol Jk, but seriously though. I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying, I just simply enjoyed the match even with how they portrayed it. Had they went the route you're visualizing, I'm sure I would've loved it too. That style you're referring seems to be the classic route and I have no problem with it. Again though, you have a great knack for painting a picture on a storybook perspective in wrestling. Kudos, my friend.

Somewhat off topic, the way they're going with all this I think is really gonna help Reigns get the crowd support back in his favor. He seems to be getting bigger reactions as of late because he's not winning everything. 

EDIT; Oh and the Ambrose/Wyatt Ambulance match from early this year I believe had most of the same structure you're referring to. Ambrose was on high attack for a while until Bray took out his leg and worked it over for a good while.


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## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Reigns not winning matches every single week does seem to be helping his case with the fans. Then again, we won't really know until he's in a title match or going after it again because at the end of the day, that's when he really gets booed. Otherwise outside of the build to Mania this year, he's always good reactions from the crowd.

Match with Wyatt I still maintain was ok. Definitely better than the LMS with Big Show, although I actually liked Ryback/Wyatt more from PB (which was a solid match itself).


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## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bruce L said:


> *sigh* Alright; I'm in. Who's got it?


*The Real Americans vs Cody Rhodes & Goldust (Main Event 03.18.2014)*

x2ywse8


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## Bruce L (Dec 7, 2010)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Do you have the network? (kinda guessing you don't since you're asking, but what the hell) If so, it's on there. Main Event 3/18/2014. I looked throughout Youtube and DM and couldn't find it, unless Cal has it on a private link or something.


Yeah, no network for me. It'd probably be a worthwhile investment, honestly, but not one I see myself making in the near future. I still prefer my wrestling media in hard-copy form or on my hard drive.



Brock said:


> I could upload it. :shrug


Like all your efforts, it would be highly appreciated.


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## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just have, look above


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Jesus man, do you always have to have such long posts? :lol Jk, but seriously though. I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying, I just simply enjoyed the match even with how they portrayed it. Had they went the route you're visualizing, I'm sure I would've loved it too. That style you're referring seems to be the classic route and I have no problem with it. Again though, you have a great knack for painting a picture on a storybook perspective in wrestling. Kudos, my friend.
> 
> Somewhat off topic, the way they're going with all this I think is really gonna help Reigns get the crowd support back in his favor. He seems to be getting bigger reactions as of late because he's not winning everything.
> 
> EDIT; Oh and the Ambrose/Wyatt Ambulance match from early this year I believe had most of the same structure you're referring to. Ambrose was on high attack for a while until Bray took out his leg and worked it over for a good while.


Lol my apologies I have been creating gigantic, unbearable walls of text lately I dunno why I get so indepth. I swear every time I go to write I post I plan on writing 3 sentences and get carried off on some wild tangent.

I like some of the things they are doing with Reigns right now, like attacking Wyatt for instance, and then there are some things I don't like quite as much. I have been skimming the shows mostly recently so I could be missing some good things. I guess with Reigns I just want to see him overcome some real obstacles, you know? Putting Reigns in peril or jeopardy doesn't work if he immediately overcomes any obstacles thrown his way. It needs to be a prolonged, drawn out story where there is actually some doubt if Roman will come out on top.

I'd like to see a storyline where someone manages to constantly get the better of Reigns both by beating him and maybe have Reigns show a few signs of vulnerability and self doubt. I'm not saying make him wear eye liner, listen to Taking Back Sunday, and become full blown emo I just mean humanize him a bit, let people known that he isn't this perfect VKM wrestling doll custom made in some WWE lab. Have him say he's scared of being a disappointment to his family and fans. Let him stutter and falter before he gets to the mountain top.

I really do like what Roman could bring to the table if he was booked and presented properly. People need to remember just how green this guy still is. He's got less than 12 months full time singles wrestling experience. That's nothing.

This is all just assuming they follow through and keep him baby face. I'll always say they messed up when theY broke apart the Shield and that Roman should have been the one to turn. They still could of saved it by working a double turn in a match with SETH and had him join the Authority back around WM time. It's too late for that now though.

I'll have to check out the Wyatt/Ambrose Ambulance Match I never saw that.


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## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fuck fuck fuckity fuck. Thought I only had 3 more 2008 PPV's to sit through. Then I realised those 3 on my PC are just the last 3 DOWNLOADED shows. I still have a couple of DVD to get through as well . OH WILL THIS PROJECT NEVER END?!?! Not when I'm watching 1 PPV every 3 months on average right about now :side:.


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## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

*WWE Battleground 2015*

Kickoff: King Barrett vs R-Truth *

Sheamus vs Randy Orton *1/2

*WWE Tag Team Championship*
The Prime Time Players (c) vs New Day (Kofi Kingston & Big E) **1/4

Bray Wyatt vs Roman Reigns **1/2

Sasha Banks vs Charlotte vs Brie Bella **1/2

*WWE United States Championship*
John Cena (c) vs Kevin Owens 1/2* SPOTFEST

*WWE World Heavyweight Championship*
Seth Rollins (c) vs Brock Lesnar *

Overall Rating: 2.25


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## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

This isn't a spoiler because it's on WWE.com, but I hope you all tune into Smackdown this week. I know I will be. CESARO VS. SETH ROLLINS in the main event! :mark:

I still need to catch Cesaro vs. Rusev and the main event tag match from last week...


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> This isn't a spoiler because it's on WWE.com, but I hope you all tune into Smackdown this week. I know I will be. CESARO VS. SETH ROLLINS in the main event! :mark:
> 
> I still need to catch Cesaro vs. Rusev and the main event tag match from last week...


Yep that'll be enough to get me to watch live. I hope they have Cesaro be the nominal baby face and let Seth get some real heat on him. People care about Cesaro, the best way for Seth to recover from the Battleground/Raw double whammy of making him look like a chump would be get the jump on the Swiss Superman and lay on a vicious beat down. Seth is the champ, he needs to win and he needs to win without interference. Maybe once Cesaro makes a big come back and looks like Seth might be done for, Rollins can give Cesaro a low blow behind the refs back and grab the tights hard, maybe put his foot on the rope, and secure the win.


So of course because that's what should happen it probably won't. It'll be back and forth back and forth, J & J come out, Seth gets DQ'd and keeps the belt but looks like a chump instead of a champ and Cesaro is no better for it either.


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## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I don't think J&J will be back on TV anytime soon, so you shouldn't have to worry about them.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Seth to brag about doing what John-boy did, only better come next Monday.


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## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

If anybody could provide a link to Rusev/Cesaro/Owens from 7/13/15 would be much appreciated 

Also :mj5 if Cena/Rollins is where they are headed, that little program during the winter did nothing for me


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm glad its happening b/c I called it & keeps the myth alive among those who know me that I'm booking WWE w/o trying. 8*D


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## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

well in that case, hopefully it gets minimal time so that the MOTY (Ziggler/Rusev) can get over 20 :drose


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## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Skins said:


> If anybody could provide a link to Rusev/Cesaro/Owens from 7/13/15 would be much appreciated


http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wwe-w...evin-owens-vs-rusev-wwe-raw-13-07-2015-a.html


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## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Skins said:


> well in that case, hopefully it gets minimal time so that the MOTY (Ziggler/Rusev) can get over 20 :drose


Sadly I think they're gonna do a mixed tag. Though that would probably be fun in a sports entertainy kind of way, mainly because Rusev's so awesome at playing off of everyone....but a Ziggler/Rusev match would obviously be a lot better in terms of match quality. 

The latter could definitely be a terrific match, but I'm afraid that the WWE would just bog the match down with outside storyline nonsense anyway. They won't just let the match sit.


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## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't recall a babyface shine in any of Brock Lesnar's recent matches. Maybe in the HHH bouts, but those things followed a head-scratching formula.


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## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I don't recall a babyface shine in any of Brock Lesnar's recent matches. Maybe in the HHH bouts, but those things followed a head-scratching formula.


Very briefly in the opening (well I guess alot of stereotypical shines occur in the opening but I digress), Brock shined up Cena in the sort of conveniently forgotten Night of Champions match due to heavily damaging and botching what should have came out of the historic Summerslam squash (more disappointing since on an episode of the Steve Austin Show shortly after, Heyman laid out this beautiful blueprint for how that could have significantly altered Cena's character to generate more investment and create more urgency/provide Cena the edge that the hostile fans dog him for not always showing. Goodness what a sick thing that was with Cena coming back so soon, dismantling the last shreds at the time Bray had coming off that essentially 0-3 with looking good once feud vs Cena and Harper who was hanging by a thread after inexplicably never beating the Usos for the belt in seemingly 100 attempts; then you have the "what if" scenerio of Cena with the possible win right after dismantlement and absolutely zero progression to come out of that beyond spurring this suplex schtick and cementing Brock as this next level beast, that if not quickly erased could've ended jeez that was ass ugly). Been a while since I watched WM 30, but I'm thinking Brock shined up Taker there too for an actually decent time that wasn't off a comeback.


Of course, since Brock has adopted this as I keep calling it "Jason Voorheese" role, the whole thing with this juggernaut is taking the offense and then the intrigue coming in the comeback, if the face can comeback and when he does what the face can mount in that role while Brock sells his ass off when it is time for that comeback/when you need to reel back the investment/pop the crowd (Stan was a master at this). That is often where Brock's underlooked timing comes in. When the crowd needs to "oooh", Brock has the knowhow and precision to kick out right at one and a half. When the crowd needs to have a seed in their head that "this is the night we witness the beast slain", Brock has great precision with the 2 and 3 quarters kickout (not alot of guys currently do unfortunately not even Cena, which is a weakness of his). The man can maul you and he will maul you, how are you gonna absorb and respond? What road will you take to respond? Brock is gonna Brock, the man is one of the very best imo. in so many facets.

edit: yes, those HHH matches sure were a head scratching formula, especially coming from H who when someone of higher ring caliber is in the ring with him, HHH is a tremendous follower/"play off of" guy, which certainly applies with Brock you'd think. Gotta chalk that one up to weird chemistry and/or ego. Brock screaming in agony frequently in particular that cage match, HHH at times with an advantage in the power struggles in all matches to the point where at Mania walking Brock around the whole area hitting him off shit etc. IDK, seemed like HHH really half assed that series. Then again, HHH in the lead as babyface has always been quite shaky. Quite a better heel worker and infinately better when HHH has to "wrestle up to" or off of someone ala the great Benoit/HHH pairing, HHH's best opponent in Cactus, playing off of Flair in the cage who was putting on a stellar clinic of entertainment, Austin etc.


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## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Well, it's been a heated, cynical last few days here on the forums:lol there are a few canards that bother me, and so what the hey, ima touch on it:

Owens doesn't look any weaker by tapping or pinfall. I don't know where to begin - gifs of higher profile wrestlers tapping, reminding people Owens is a heel, questioning whether people care about logic in wrestling, or what. Tapping is what you fucking do in that situation, and unless you want to turn Owens, don't spout the pass out nonsense. Rusev said "I Quit" earlier in the year. Big deal. To roll this together, the notion that someone who pinned John Fucking Cena clean in his first match, and had never lost up until a month ago for the entire 7-9 months he's been signed is a jobber now can go fpalm itself. He kicked out of God Knows how many AA's, not including the one from the middle rope? He's got talent, he'll be fine - he could walk out next Monday to interrupt Seth and everyone would be :mark: 

Speaking of Seth: X-Pac heat is proof positive of how much smarks really know. 

"He's getting x-PAC heat, they don't like the performer" 
"O'Really? People don't like Seth Rollins?"
"Oh, they like Rollins, just not his character/booking"
"So they don't like heels and heel booking?"
"They don't like people who run away from a fight."
"That's rather the point."

I think Seth does exceedingly well for someone who doesn't strike me as a natural for his role atm, sort of like Dean Ambrose. But dare I say, best heat on the roster? Who else is consistently a heel and getting heat? _Maybe_ Rusev? 

BG was whatever. I knew its a continuation deal with SS around the corner. Reigns/Wyatt had it's moments, Cena/Owens was very good if feeling slightly tired, and the main was unexpected. There you go. ***1/2 to Owens/Cena for MOTN for those keeping score.

I took both Taker's low blow and Cena's twelve AA's to mean the same thing. They aren't quite who they used to be, albeit still very good. Cena has had to up the ante w/ever bigger spots to put people away, while UT just took a shortcut. One way to slay The Beast:lol

A lot of the cynicism honestly just goes back to Bryan and Punk - the two most popular "new" faces of the last 8-10 years, and how neither seemed to reach their full potential because the company wasn't "really" behind them. Fans right now have lost patience, and are now waiting for the WWE to fuck it up and pull the rug out from their favorite. 

And WWE need to move on w/this roster already. They're advertising Raw near me "Featuring: John Cena, Randy Orton, Big Show, and Kane." Literally. It's like living ten years in the past.


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