# Kenny Omega on AEW vs. NXT



## AEWMoxley (May 26, 2019)

Kenny Omega has finally found guys that he's a bigger name than - geeks on NXT that literally nobody on the planet has heard of.


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## Cataclysm (Sep 8, 2019)

Kenny kayfabing to build more excitement nothing really to see here.


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## Buhalovski (Jul 24, 2015)

I'd rather watch WALTER and Riddle than any other overhyped match of Omega to be honest.


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## AEWMoxley (May 26, 2019)

Tsvetoslava said:


> WALTER and Riddle


Who?


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## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

I love Walter and Riddle too but Kenny has atleast 10 matches or more better than anything either one of them has any done. 

There are no comparisons, and I like NXT.


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## Hephaesteus (Aug 20, 2018)

Well, yea he's not lying. They're WWE's minor leaguers. That being said, you might not want to highlight that aspect, Kenny.


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## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

Tsvetoslava said:


> I'd rather watch WALTER and Riddle than any other overhyped match of Omega to be honest.


Matt Riddle is the most overrated wrestler in years. Don't put him in the same category as someone that has won multiple awards in Japanese and western media.


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## patpat (Feb 17, 2019)

I had no problem with seth calling himself the best ( his comments about mox where the problem) so I dont see any problem here. Its Kenny omega and he comes out and say that he is better, end of the day.reigns would say the same and anyone with a brain would
Happy that they actually dropped the underdog narrative 
Now he just has to back it up and knowing him he simply will. 
I am of those who think this whole nxt vs aew war is a meme.
( even tho I dont totally agree with his statement particularly the part about being in the dark match. 
But omega was always like that tho, the only difference was his ability to back it up , he came out took a shit on mania 32 and went on to deliver what is seen by a lot like an absolute classic. If you can back up your words...)


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## Bryan Jericho (Sep 8, 2014)

Im a big Kenny fan, but Johnny Gargano has had more great matches than anyone the past year or 2.


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## tducey (Apr 12, 2011)

Kenny's a top talent, one of the best wrestlers in the world right now so I can see where he gets all his self appreciation from.


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## ReekOfAwesomenesss (Apr 6, 2012)

He is a bigger name than all of them.


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## TripleG (Dec 8, 2004)

Shots fired.


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## bradatar (Mar 30, 2015)

He's right. I attempted to watch that geek fest last night and 100% agree.


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## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

I mean he's not lying. We talking about the biggest star in Japan for the past 5 years who is not named Okada or Tanahashi.


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## ReekOfAwesomenesss (Apr 6, 2012)

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> I mean he's not lying. We talking about the biggest star in Japan for the past 5 years who is not named Okada or Tanahashi.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

If you agree or not, it won’t matter

It is the truth at the end of the day - we all know WWE offered them contracts - sizeable ones

I’m sure it would’ve included main event picture debuts for them

And the NXT guys would still be in NXT

And let’s be honest... not even on USA

Now..... should he have said it? Well, the less he talks about WWE, the happier I’ll be


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## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Well, Kenny is correct. I really tried giving nXt a shot last night and it was just so hard to watch.


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## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

TKO Wrestling said:


> Well, Kenny is correct. I really tried giving nXt a shot last night and it was just so hard to watch.


I'm curious, I didn't watch it and reddit is going all nuts over how great it was.

Was it a bunch of flippy shit? Any psychology?


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## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Tilon said:


> I'm curious, I didn't watch it and reddit is going all nuts over how great it was.
> 
> Was it a bunch of flippy shit? Any psychology?


Maybe it is the Full Sail thing it just felt like a really bland version of the classic 2006-2011 TNA days. It is like they are going for that feeling without nearly the execution. I just know that I walked away from it thinking that it was a poor mans version of peak TNA.


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## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

ReekOfAwesomenesss said:


>


How could I forget Naito...


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## Reggie Dunlop (Nov 2, 2015)

TKO Wrestling said:


> Well, Kenny is correct. I really tried giving nXt a shot last night and it was just so hard to watch.


 Beat me to it. Before I could even get to the fact that I can’t stand Adam Cole, Mauro’s overhyping of every little fucking thing was just too much. The little bits of the matches I saw were just meh. Luckily I didn’t see any of the bullshit finish or I might have gouged my own eyes out. Could just be a mental thing with the stigma of WWE and all, but I ended up back on the Full Custom Garage reruns. Ian’s shit is dope.


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## RelivingTheShadow (Apr 25, 2013)

Tilon said:


> I'm curious, I didn't watch it and reddit is going all nuts over how great it was.
> 
> Was it a bunch of flippy shit? Any psychology?


Reddit overhypes everything WWE tbh, they love the nonsensical Roman angle on Smackdown.

Nonetheless, I thought the NXT show was pretty decent, but I'm not really invested into anyone, although the imperium guys seem kind of cool.


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## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

NXT was really good but of course REDDIT overhypes everything Vince/HHH touch. ALL OUT was a way better show.


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## bradatar (Mar 30, 2015)

TKO Wrestling said:


> Maybe it is the Full Sail thing it just felt like a really bland version of the classic 2006-2011 TNA days. It is like they are going for that feeling without nearly the execution. I just know that I walked away from it thinking that it was a poor mans version of peak TNA.


Agree 100%. Went in positive last night and was not impressed.


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## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1174760846708412421


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## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

Dijakovic XD

Nobody knew who he was until he started in NXT XD


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## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

TKO Wrestling said:


> Tilon said:
> 
> 
> > I'm curious, I didn't watch it and reddit is going all nuts over how great it was.
> ...


2006-11 TNA where the guys from the Monday night war era dominated tv and we got nonsensical angles and gimmick matches and even z list celebs wrestling.

NXT is nothing like TNA


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## Mordecay (Aug 15, 2014)

"They would be the dark matches on the shows main evented by me"

Hmmm, he has main evented once since AEW started :lol

Also, did he really think that guys like Cole, Gargano, WALTER, Ciampa, Riddle, O'Reilly, Io, Dream, etc, would be on dark matches over the Dark Order, Private Party, the Best Friends, Shawn Spears, Hangman or anyone in their women division? :heston


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## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

Mordecay said:


> "They would be the dark matches on the shows main evented by me"
> 
> Hmmm, he has main evented once since AEW started :lol
> 
> Also, did he really think that guys like Cole, Gargano, WALTER, Ciampa, Riddle, O'Reilly, Io, Dream, etc, would be on dark matches over the Dark Order, Private Party, the Best Friends, Shawn Spears, Hangman or anyone in their women division? :heston


Moxley, Cody, Jericho, Kenny and the Bucks are bigger stars than the entire NXT roster. I guess that he has a point?.


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## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

validreasoning said:


> 2006-11 TNA where the guys from the Monday night war era dominated tv and we got nonsensical angles and gimmick matches and even z list celebs wrestling.
> 
> NXT is nothing like TNA


No the days where they pushed unknowns to the moon, guys like AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, Christopher Daniels, The Guns, Abyss, the entire X division, etc....while also providing A talent like Kurt Angle, Samoa Joe, Team 3D, Christian Cage, etc...to balance it out and make it watchable.

Like I said, NXT last night was a really poor version of TNA 2006-2011. So I guess it is more like TNA 2004. Very close. Long ways to go before I watch it again. Last night helped me make my decision for AEW commercial breaks, the NBA it is.


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## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

Mordecay said:


> Hmmm, he has main evented once since AEW started :lol


Yeah, it's not like he's an EVP and booking himself this way on purpose for a longer story.

This level of foolishness makes the ignore list.


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## Shaun_27 (Apr 12, 2011)

Best thing to do for AEW to do would be to ignore WWE. However, that ship may have already sailed so AEW needs to spin it as WWE vs AEW if they want to acknowledge a war. AEW vs NXT does no one any favours.


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## Mordecay (Aug 15, 2014)

V-Trigger said:


> Moxley, Cody, Jericho, Kenny and the Bucks are bigger stars than the entire NXT roster. I guess that he has a point?.


You can only do 2-3 matches a night with those names (and Jericho probably will wrestle once every month or so), and I imagine their shows will have more than 2-3 matches, so the fact that he thinks that the NXT guys (at least the top ones) will be on dark matches over their midcard and their women division is just laughable.


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## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

He was talking in character during the interview?. Also he wasn't wrong pointing out that NXT is a developmental brand. That's the whole point of the PC.


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## Mordecay (Aug 15, 2014)

Tilon said:


> Yeah, it's not like he's an EVP and booking himself this way on purpose for a longer story.
> 
> This level of foolishness makes the ignore list.


Criticizes Omega... gets on the Ignore List

*Sees his avatar*

Why am I not really surprised?? :lmao


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## Stinger Fan (Jun 21, 2006)

ReekOfAwesomenesss said:


> He is a bigger name than all of them.


But likely won't draw the same TV ratings as those smaller names though


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## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

Stinger Fan said:


> But likely won't draw the same TV ratings as those smaller names though


You don't know that?. Every big building that NXT has sold was thanks to being on the same weekend than a big WWE PPV. When they went to San Jose for TakeOver they drew a bad number


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## Even Flow (Jun 10, 2005)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1174770792321691650


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## Strike Force (Sep 14, 2015)

This is why WWE booking NXT head-to-head with AEW is brilliant.

If NXT "wins" the ratings, then AEW really looks like shit.

If AEW "wins" the ratings, it's no big deal because they're only beating WWE's third-string brand.

It's like a man fighting a woman: neither outcome is all that great.


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## McNugget (Aug 27, 2007)

Fair play to Kenny but if they end up losing to the NXT rating (which seems pretty likely, tbh, at least initially) he's going to have some egg on his face.


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## Mordecay (Aug 15, 2014)

McNugget said:


> Fair play to Kenny but if they end up losing to the NXT rating (which seems pretty likely, tbh, at least initially) he's going to have some egg on his face.


That's why I always remember something that I think Jericho said: "You never bury your opponent in a promo" because if you beat him you are beating a nobody and if you lose to him it means you are worse than a nobody.


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## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

McNugget said:


> Fair play to Kenny but if they end up losing to the NXT rating (which seems pretty likely, tbh, *at least initially*) he's going to have some egg on his face.



I think AEW is going to better than NXT for the first show.


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## Jazminator (Jan 9, 2018)

I think Kenny is wrong here because wrestlers like Adam Cole, Johnny Gargano, Roderick Strong, Kyle O'Reilly, etc. aren't really "developmental" performers. They're already just as good if not better than many of the main roster stars. It's just that they're not on the main roster.

NXT put out a strong show last night, in my view. That's great. Wednesday nights will be fantastic for wrestling fans, as both companies try to out-do each other. We'll all win in the end.


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## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

Jazminator said:


> I think Kenny is wrong here because wrestlers like Adam Cole, Johnny Gargano, Roderick Strong, Kyle O'Reilly, etc. aren't really "developmental" performers. They're already just as good if not better than many of the main roster stars. It's just that they're not on the main roster.
> 
> NXT put out a strong show last night, in my view. That's great. Wednesday nights will be fantastic for wrestling fans, as both companies try to out-do each other. We'll all win in the end.


Just watch the full interview….he is in character.


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## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

rbl85 said:


> Just watch the full interview….he is in character.


Overconfident/psycho bipolar seems to be part of his shtick these days.


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## RelivingTheShadow (Apr 25, 2013)

Mordecay said:


> You can only do 2-3 matches a night with those names (and Jericho probably will wrestle once every month or so), and I imagine their shows will have more than 2-3 matches, so the fact that he thinks that the NXT guys (at least the top ones) will be on dark matches over their midcard and their women division is just laughable.


Chris Jericho has 3 matches already announced for October 2nd-November 9th.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

V-Trigger said:


> You don't know that?. Every big building that NXT has sold was thanks to being on the same weekend than a big WWE PPV. When they went to San Jose for TakeOver they drew a bad number


While I don't think NXT will out do AEW in the ratings, given they'll ultimately have WWE branding it could happen. Attendance wise AEW will be smoking them for the foreseeable future.



The Inbred Goatman said:


> Chris Jericho has 3 matches already announced for October 2nd-November 9th.


You read that wrong. He's talking about the amount of the card their stars will take up is small. Not how often they'll wrestle.


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## Jazminator (Jan 9, 2018)

rbl85 said:


> Just watch the full interview….he is in character.


Thanks for the clarification.


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## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

rbl85 said:


> Just watch the full interview….he is in character.


I want to see how that character is presented in a promotion where ‘wins matter’ and he has been losing.

If he’s in character, that means KO is going to show up on AEW and act like he’s a superstar rather than someone whose confidence is eroding because he can’t win matches.

His storyline seems to be “big in Japan, ain’t shit here, can’t get over in the ‘big leagues’ in America.” But is he going to be all cocky and confidence or will that erode?

Actually, he should be a loss or two away from dark matches at AEW PPVs — he can’t lose all the time and be a big star if wins matter.

Can’t have it both ways.


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## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

Saintpat said:


> I want to see how that character is presented in a promotion where ‘wins matter’ and he has been losing.
> 
> If he’s in character, that means KO is going to show up on AEW and act like he’s a superstar rather than someone whose confidence is eroding because he can’t win matches.
> 
> ...


You cna have him win small matches and lose big ones so he is still justified being on AEW ppv's. Putting him on a full losing streak would be awful. But him losing big matches and it affecting him seems to be what they are going for. In his matches so far he lost big matches to Jericho and PAC whilst winning smaller matches aka the 6 man tag and CIMA.


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## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

Even Flow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1174770792321691650


 Kenny big leaguing him :lmao


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## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

Death Rider said:


> You cna have him win small matches and lose big ones so he is still justified being on AEW ppv's. Putting him on a full losing streak would be awful. But him losing big matches and it affecting him seems to be what they are going for. In his matches so far he lost big matches to Jericho and PAC whilst winning smaller matches aka the 6 man tag and CIMA.


But if it’s affecting him, why is this promo about him being a main eventer in character? It doesn’t jibe.

And I guess you can say Pac is a big match ... but it was second on the card, right? And it was against a late substitute with no build or storyline. And, ironically, Pac is a former NXT guy who found his ceiling in WWE.

None of that makes sense when put together.


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## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

Saintpat said:


> But if it’s affecting him, why is this promo about him being a main eventer in character? It doesn’t jibe.
> 
> And I guess you can say Pac is a big match ... but it was second on the card, right? And it was against a late substitute with no build or storyline. And, ironically, Pac is a former NXT guy who found his ceiling in WWE.
> 
> None of that makes sense when put together.


Losses affect people in different ways. He calls himself the best bout machince. Sometimes people when going through crisis of confidence act more cocky to cover for self-doubt. And in fairness AEW had to change the match on the fly due to an injury. I would argue even with where it was, it is still one of the biggest matches on the card.


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## Reggie Dunlop (Nov 2, 2015)

Please stop bringing ‘matches matter’ into every fucking argument. Matches matter in regards to who gets title shots — though I’ll bet anything that they aren’t the _only_ things that matter. It’s getting rather tiring with people bitching about this, that and the other fucking thing not making sense because wins and losses are supposed to matter. That and ‘it’s supposed to be sports-oriented’. It’s just nitpicking for something to be critical about. 

If somebody’s getting a title match with no wins and all losses, _then_ you can bitch about it.


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## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

TKO Wrestling said:


> No the days where they pushed unknowns to the moon, guys like AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, Christopher Daniels, The Guns, Abyss, the entire X division, etc....while also providing A talent like Kurt Angle, Samoa Joe, Team 3D, Christian Cage, etc...to balance it out and make it watchable.


Samoa Joe and Styles weren't unknowns pre TNA. Joe was hottest act on indy circuit in 2005 hotter than CM Punk. WWE were desperate to sign him and make him next monster but TNA got him. They booked him well for about a year then Angle arrived and gave Joes unbeaten streak to him.

The top champions in TNA during that period (2006-11)
Jarrett, Christian, Jarrett, Sting, Abyss, Christian, Angle, Angle, Sting, Angle, Joe, Sting, Foley, Angle, Styles, RVD, Jeff Hardy, Mr Anderson, Jeff Hardy, Sting, Mr Anderson, Sting, Kurt Angle, James Storm and Bobby Roode

So out of that 6 year period you mentioned Styles held belt for 211 days completely playing second fiddle to Hogan's start there. Joe had belt for 180 days but long after he was at his hottest, Abyss for 56 days, Storm held it for 8, Roode for about 35 days in late 2011. Rest of champions (and majority of the time) made their name during Monday night war outside Mr Kennedy/Anderson. And as mentioned Hogan completely dominated tv in 2010-11. He wasn't champion but the whole show focused on him and he featured in every second segment and was involved in all the big angles

Outside the fact both taped weekly tv in studio setting in Orlando I see very little to compare TNA and NXT.

You are never going to see stuff like Fish market Street fight, reverse battle royal, electrified steel cage match, lock box challenge in nxt. You certainly won't see stuff like Jenna Morasca vs sharmell or Pacman jones as tag champion and never hitting one move.



> Like I said, NXT last night was a really poor version of TNA 2006-2011. So I guess it is more like TNA 2004. Very close. Long ways to go before I watch it again. Last night helped me make my decision for AEW commercial breaks, the NBA it is.


How?

NXT didn't feature a single person who had ever appeared on national TV prior to last night so complete opposite of TNA during that period which gave Sting, Angle, Foley, Booker T, Kevin Nash, Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, RVD, Eric Bischoff, Jeff Jarrett leading roles on weekly tv.

It was wrestling heavy show which TNA certainly wasn't at least as far as tv went. TNA actually aired an episode of impact in 2011 which featured no wrestling over the 2 hour broadcast just all skits, promos and angles.


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## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

V-Trigger said:


> You don't know that?. Every big building that NXT has sold was thanks to being on the same weekend than a big WWE PPV. When they went to San Jose for TakeOver they drew a bad number


NXT hasn't held a takeover in San Jose. They held live event on Thursday or Friday night prior to Mania 31.

Takeover London sold out Wembley arena quite quick and Takeover 25 took place in Bridgeport, neither show opposite a main roster event.

And yes Takeovers do normally take place weekend of ppvs but Takeovers are usually hotter tickets than Raw/SD same weekend


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## RelivingTheShadow (Apr 25, 2013)

RapShepard said:


> You read that wrong. He's talking about the amount of the card their stars will take up is small. Not how often they'll wrestle.


He literally said "and Jericho probably will wrestle once every month or so"

How did I read that wrong?


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

The Inbred Goatman said:


> He literally said "and Jericho probably will wrestle once every month or so"
> 
> 
> 
> How did I read that wrong?


Lol right i need to read my bad


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## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

Just comparing their rosters, AEW obviously has more star power. Jericho, Cody, Mox, Omega, The Bucks, etc. Their main event scene has the clear edge against Cole, Gargano, Ciampa, Riddle, Dream, etc., as talented as those guys are.

Their tag division is stronger too, obviously.

But NXT has a stronger Women's Division. Even if NXT hasn't used most of their of women right, from Shayna, Io, Toni (rumored), Rhea, Dakota, Bianca, Candice, etc., it's stronger. And they have a much bigger depth of mid carders and other acts on the show.

Will be interesting to see them go at it on Wednesday nights.


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## RelivingTheShadow (Apr 25, 2013)

Saintpat said:


> Actually, he should be a loss or two away from dark matches at AEW PPVs — he can’t lose all the time and be a big star if wins matter.


Do people have this hard of a time understanding how wins and losses are supposed to work. First of all, Omega is 2-2, and his 2 losses are to main eventers, quality of opposition matters. Second of all, just because you lose a match or two, doesn't mean you are suddenly booted to the bottom of the card. UFC has guys headline shows that are coming off of losses because they are STARS. Omega is a STAR. Wins and losses matter in relation to the CHAMPIONSHIP. In WWE, you have guys coming off of losses getting title shots right away, Miz literally got an IC title shot after LOSING clean in the first round of KOTR, Samoa Joe LOST his way to a WWE Title shot against Kofi. 

Jesus christ, some of you guys take this wins and losses thing so far, it's not hard to understand. Yes if Omega loses 10 matches in a row, will he get pushed down the card? Obviously, but that's because his star power will diminish not just because of his W/L record(although that certainly is one of the factors to his star power going down if that happens).

There was one time in the UFC where Donald Cerrone lost to Rafael Dos Anjos, and they were booked on the same card a few months later, and Cerrone was on the main card while Dos Anjos was on the prelims, why? Because Cerrone was the bigger star. BUT, RDA was the one that ended up getting a title shot, because his wins warranted it, took Cerrone a while after to get his title shot.


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Kenny is great but his match style is unbelievable, and not in the good way. I don't believe someone who looks like him or the Bucks could take the punishment they receive and continue to get back up. Kicking out of 10 finishers, five of which occur through tables does nothing for me. Tell me a story in the ring, don't just give me a spot fest and tell me it's a five star match. Plus I'm still not convinced he's any good on the mic and that's half of his job.


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## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Do people have this hard of a time understanding how wins and losses are supposed to work. First of all, Omega is 2-2, and his 2 losses are to main eventers, quality of opposition matters. Second of all, just because you lose a match or two, doesn't mean you are suddenly booted to the bottom of the card. UFC has guys headline shows that are coming off of losses because they are STARS. Omega is a STAR. Wins and losses matter in relation to the CHAMPIONSHIP. In WWE, you have guys coming off of losses getting title shots right away, Miz literally got an IC title shot after LOSING clean in the first round of KOTR, Samoa Joe LOST his way to a WWE Title shot against Kofi.
> 
> Jesus christ, some of you guys take this wins and losses thing so far, it's not hard to understand. Yes if Omega loses 10 matches in a row, will he get pushed down the card? Obviously, but that's because his star power will diminish not just because of his W/L record(although that certainly is one of the factors to his star power going down if that happens).
> 
> There was one time in the UFC where Donald Cerrone lost to Rafael Dos Anjos, and they were booked on the same card a few months later, and Cerrone was on the main card while Dos Anjos was on the prelims, why? Because Cerrone was the bigger star. BUT, RDA was the one that ended up getting a title shot, because his wins warranted it, took Cerrone a while after to get his title shot.


Link to where AEW has explained their W-L system? Or is this just what you think it should be?

And if loses to Pac — a guy who’s not in the promotion, who had zero wins in AEW — how is that a ‘quality loss to great opposition’? Not in AEW it wasn’t.

In fact, a win over Omega going forward should be devalued. Because whatever he’s done in Japan, whatever he’s done wherever, in AEW he’s .500. But you can just point a magic wand and say ‘he’s a star so his record doesn’t really matter.’

And, again, you contradict what people assume the angle is here — if he doesn’t suffer at all from losing, how is this angle supposed to work? “Kenny can’t win ... let’s keep putting him in huge matches that we promote as major events ... wow, this is really tearing him apart.’ The whole point of a losing streak angle is that it has to affect the person losing ... but in your conception it doesn’t because HE’S A STAR so it doesn’t matter. Better that he just laugh about it and make it about how wins and losses matter — for everybody else. Let him cut promos about how he keeps his spot and others suffer.

As for losers main eventing in UFC or whatever — it’s pretty rare. Ronda lost twice and *poof* she wasn’t the biggest star and wouldn’t have been able to keep drawing and main eventing. Try putting CMMA Punk on top of a UFC card now and see what kind of records you break. Bookmark this and remind me next time a 2-2 guy is main eventing a major MMA PPV.


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## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

TD Stinger said:


> Just comparing their rosters, AEW obviously has more star power. Jericho, Cody, Mox, Omega, The Bucks, etc. Their main event scene has the clear edge against Cole, Gargano, Ciampa, Riddle, Dream, etc., as talented as those guys are.
> 
> Their tag division is stronger too, obviously.
> 
> ...


I’d say Mox is a big star who casuals will recognize. Jericho for sure.

Cody is a notch down. Don’t get me wrong, I love the guy — more than the rest of the roster really — but to most casuals he’s a WWE midcard talent.

And Dustin (as Goldust) is more recognizable than the rest: Omega is big with hardcore fans who keep up with Japan; Bucks, same because Bullet Club mostly and some ROH exposure.

I think Gargano and Velveteen Dream are at least as recognizable to most casuals as Omega and the Bucks, but I could be wrong.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

And just like that... everybody’s talking bout Kenny again

Almost like NXT didn’t even happen last night.

Fans will tune in to watch him wrestle, haters will tune in to watch him fall on his face

..... but they’ll be watching come Oct 2


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## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

Cult03 said:


> Kenny is great but his match style is unbelievable, and not in the good way. I don't believe someone who looks like him or the Bucks could take the punishment they receive and continue to get back up. Kicking out of 10 finishers, five of which occur through tables does nothing for me. Tell me a story in the ring, don't just give me a spot fest and tell me it's a five star match. Plus I'm still not convinced he's any good on the mic and that's half of his job.


Don't lump Kenny in with the Bucks, he's fully capable of putting on great matches and sell well. Look at the finish with PAC. That match was very well put together and had a shocking finish.

That being said, the Bucks are good at it too when they want to be (Golden Lovers vs. the Bucks was a great match).


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## Mox Girl (Sep 29, 2014)

validreasoning said:


> NXT hasn't held a takeover in San Jose. They held live event on Thursday or Friday night prior to Mania 31.


In addition to this, that show sold out. I tried to get tickets to it but I couldn't. So I don't know that guy is talking about :lol


On the subject of Kenny, he has a big ego :lol But I guess that's part of his character (tbh I don't really know that much about him, only what I've read on here and seen in the very few matches of his I've watched so far).

Why does he say it's not a war then in the next paragraph he says it is, lol. Either it's a war or it isn't haha.


----------



## patpat (Feb 17, 2019)

soo I went and watched the actual full interview, not only is he in character but most of the promo is a "worked shoot" on moxley and him wanting him for the fight. 
it kinda made it feel less impactful for sure, but it does confirm that yes, people don't go to the source to get the full grasp of things. 
anyway, I hope they do more of those kinda shoot style promo it create real legitimate heat, even fucking mcgregor and UFC did it better than wrestling today.


----------



## Alexander_G (Mar 10, 2018)

I don't care about petty opinions on who's better. I want to watch both, support both, study the work and enjoy a new generation. 

I'm not here for 1 to talk shit about one brand over the other. Childish behavior. Rather, I support what's best for the business overall. *Wrestling*. The mat is sacred.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop (Nov 2, 2015)

Cult03 said:


> Kenny is great but his match style is unbelievable, and not in the good way. *I don't believe someone who looks like him or the Bucks could take the punishment they receive and continue to get back up*. Kicking out of 10 finishers, five of which occur through tables does nothing for me. Tell me a story in the ring, don't just give me a spot fest and tell me it's a five star match. Plus I'm still not convinced he's any good on the mic and that's half of his job.


This is virtually every wrestler ever who ever worked a wrestling match in the entire history of professional wrestling. And if hyperbole isn’t enough of an argument for you, I give you Adam Cole, the stringy-armed dweeb who kicks out of fucking everything. And if that’s still not enough, I give you almost every WWE ppv match since 1993.


----------



## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

He's getting a lot of 'screw you' attention from the E fans for this. He's been doing a lot of that kinda stuff lately with the shitting on Mox too.

I don't see a face coming out the other side of this.


----------



## DJ Punk (Sep 1, 2016)

Damn. I like that confidence. Let's see it in action now. Can't wait!


----------



## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

both brands have a long way to go.

this war is incredibly over-hyped from people desperate to relive the monday night wars / experience it for the first time.


----------



## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

Alexander_G said:


> I'm not here for 1 to talk shit about one brand over the other. Childish behavior. Rather, I support what's best for the business overall. *Wrestling*. The mat is sacred.


Wrestling is about more than just technical ability in the ring. It's about wrestlers having some creative freedom to develop their art so they have spontaneity. Without spontaneity you're never going to have a great live show, because things don't just go according to the plan you wrote on paper for someone else to do.

That's why there is heat between the brands, and few fans seem to realize it. Most of the guys in AEW love the freedom they have in comparison to WWE, and a lot of the WWE talent love being part of Big E and spitting down at their competition.

It really is a different culture of business, which makes what Kenny is saying perfect sense, if you see it from THEIR shoes, the wrestlers.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

I personally don't care about this silly little war. I just want to watch good wrestling and all that comes with it. That's I care about and I'm glad I'm gonna get it. What a time to be alive.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Tilon said:


> Don't lump Kenny in with the Bucks, he's fully capable of putting on great matches and sell well. Look at the finish with PAC. That match was very well put together and had a shocking finish.
> 
> That being said, the Bucks are good at it too when they want to be (Golden Lovers vs. the Bucks was a great match).


Selling after a bump is all well and good but continuing to sell throughout the match isn't something they do often, if at all. Wrestling another 30 minutes after going through a table the way Kenny does or even getting up after nearly dying like The Bucks do is unrealistic and quite frankly, bullshit.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Reggie Dunlop said:


> This is virtually every wrestler ever who ever worked a wrestling match in the entire history of professional wrestling. And if hyperbole isn’t enough of an argument for you, I give you Adam Cole, the stringy-armed dweeb who kicks out of fucking everything. And if that’s still not enough, I give you almost every WWE ppv match since 1993.


Cool, who are we talking about again though? This topic didn't ask for my opinion on Adam Cole but I share a similar sentiment. Although I'm not saying they can't be skinny and look legitimate, but fucking sell it properly. Let the match finish if it looked like you nearly died for once. Don't stay down and sell for a few minutes and then get back up and wrestle another half hour.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Tilon said:


> Wrestling is about more than just technical ability in the ring. It's about wrestlers having some creative freedom to develop their art so they have spontaneity. Without spontaneity you're never going to have a great live show, because things don't just go according to the plan you wrote on paper for someone else to do.
> 
> That's why there is heat between the brands, and few fans seem to realize it. Most of the guys in AEW love the freedom they have in comparison to WWE, and a lot of the WWE talent love being part of Big E and spitting down at their competition.
> 
> It really is a different culture of business, which makes what Kenny is saying perfect sense, if you see it from THEIR shoes, the wrestlers.


You think anything on the AEW shows have been spontaneous so far though? Everything is just as pre-planned as the WWE. I kind of agree with what you're saying but spontaneity isn't the word you're looking for. They're not calling much on the spot. These guys are vigorous in their planning.


----------



## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

Cult03 said:


> Selling after a bump is all well and good but continuing to sell throughout the match isn't something they do often, if at all. Wrestling another 30 minutes after going through a table the way Kenny does or even getting up after nearly dying like The Bucks do is unrealistic and quite frankly, bullshit.


I don't disagree, I wish there were more body part selling in general in modern wrestling. That's one thing Kenny can slip up on, although I HAVE seen him do the You Can't Escape moonsault with one leg to sell an injury.

But it's the Bucks that take it to ridiculous extremes, not Kenny.


----------



## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

Cult03 said:


> You think anything on the AEW shows have been spontaneous so far though? Everything is just as pre-planned as the WWE.


I don't get that impression at all. To say they are as pre-planned as WWE is crazy, since...they haven't hired any writers.

The wrestlers have a lot more relative freedom, and it's not really arguable.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Tilon said:


> I don't get that impression at all. To say they are as pre-planned as WWE is crazy, since...they haven't hired any writers.
> 
> The wrestlers have a lot more relative freedom, and it's not really arguable.


Don't get me wrong, they have wayyyy more freedom to do as they please in the ring. But they're planning 99% of it beforehand. That is why some of these blokes are so good at what they do. They get so in depth with with their planning.


----------



## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

I don't know if he and AEW realizes it or not, but putting over the WWEs C team makes AEW look second rate. They shouldn't even bring those guys up, they're falling right for Vince's trap.


----------



## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

Cult03 said:


> Don't get me wrong, they have wayyyy more freedom to do as they please in the ring. But they're planning 99% of it beforehand. That is why some of these blokes are so good at what they do. They get so in depth with with their planning.


Yes, I think we're both saying the same thing in different ways. Of course they want to plan spots and think about it beforehand, but during the match, they get in a 'zone' where they are thinking about how to act, how to make their face look, timing, etc on the fly. It's a natural mindset for a wrestler to be in, and the micromanaged nature of WWE down to the ref telling you what to do every 30 seconds goes against that mental state.

Edit: Also, they don't plan close to 99%. They plan the high spots and such, but a lot of the rest is ad-hoc.


----------



## Alexander_G (Mar 10, 2018)

Cult03 said:


> Selling after a bump is all well and good but continuing to sell throughout the match isn't something they do often, if at all. Wrestling another 30 minutes after going through a table the way Kenny does or even getting up after nearly dying like The Bucks do is unrealistic and quite frankly, bullshit.


QFT. We're not watching a Dragon Ball Z fight here where a guy can take the equivalent of 80 megaton nukes to the face and survive, this is pro wrestling and we're supposed to be watching a live-action wrestling match between obviously mortal people. It's two different levels of fiction. A fan can only suspend his belief so much on how much damage a human body can take.

There was only one guy that had an excuse for rising from the grave in pro wrestling, and that's the Undertaker, which these guys are not. There has to be a cap on the unrealistic demonstrations. Else the Bucks may as well say they have the 'Power of the Urn'.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Alexander_G said:


> QFT. We're not watching a Dragon Ball Z fight here where a guy can take the equivalent of 80 megaton nukes to the face and survive, this is pro wrestling and we're supposed to be watching a live-action wrestling match between obviously mortal people. It's two different levels of fiction. A fan can only suspend his belief so much on how much damage a human body can take.
> 
> There was only one guy that had an excuse for rising from the grave in pro wrestling, and that's the Undertaker, which these guys are not. There has to be a cap on the unrealistic demonstrations. Else the Bucks may as well say they have the 'Power of the Urn'.


It's definitely difficult to mix the two these days. The supernatural element in Lucha Underground was amazing because it wasn't supposed to be realistic.


----------



## 45banshee (Jan 7, 2019)

Talk yo shit Kenny!!! But AEW better bring it out the gate on there first show cause NXT put on a kickass show last night


----------



## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

TheAppler said:


> both brands have a long way to go.
> 
> this war is incredibly over-hyped from people desperate to relive the monday night wars / experience it for the first time.


Instead of them fighting over 8-10 million or so people, they'll be fighting over 1.5 mil or so lol. This war is gonna be so weak, combined they'll basically get around peak TNA viewership. 

AEW made a couple of big mistakes. Firstly, their undercard sucks, but more importantly, they should have gone head to head with Raw or Smackdown. They should have known that the WWE was going to counter program them


----------



## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

45banshee said:


> Talk yo shit Kenny!!! But AEW better bring it out the gate on there first show cause NXT put on a kickass show last night


I disagree. 1st show on USA was a major letdown. To new fans, not a single worthy promo nor a reason to stay for a whole hour after the 2nd match. They just dont have any characters that are exciting. They were lucky to get that 1.2 rating. Was expecting a 600,000,-850,000
And I didnt see 2nd hour but if it was better what a shity way to screw-a-live-on USA debut.


----------



## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

Funny part is if his "friends" jumped to AEW, they'd have a 1 match feud with Cody and disappear into the Abyss just like Shawn Spears and Goldust.


----------



## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

validreasoning said:


> NXT hasn't held a takeover in San Jose. They held live event on Thursday or Friday night prior to Mania 31.
> 
> Takeover London sold out Wembley arena quite quick and Takeover 25 took place in Bridgeport, neither show opposite a main roster event.
> 
> And yes Takeovers do normally take place weekend of ppvs but Takeovers are usually hotter tickets than Raw/SD same weekend


My bad. It was XXV the show that did poorly on tickets.


----------



## Blade Runner (Jan 24, 2012)

It's a safe assumption that AEW will have the more attractive show right out of the gate. They'll have a bigger venue and they'll have guys like Moxley, Jericho, PAC and Cody... all of whom are recognizable names to the lapsed fan that gave up on the WWE in recent years. NXT very much feels like a glorified developmental show with only a few standouts like Dream and Riddle.


----------



## P Thriller (Jan 6, 2016)

I like Kenny and all, but honestly every single NXT Takeover show ever made are better than the two AEW shows that I have watched. AEW has a couple's stars and the rest are a bunch of embarrassing carnival acts and the matches are mostly ridiculous. AEW is probably the most overhyped product I've ever watched. Most of the stuff that AEW does would be ripped to shreds if WWE did it. I'll give their new show a shot obviously because I enjoy competition, but all I know is NXT doesn't have guys walking out dressed as Star Trek characters and bringing dogs to the stage or wrestling with their hands in their pockets or having battle royals with rules that make no sense or making their first world champion a guy in his 50s. Honestly I'd be embarrassed to show other people AEW, it is a bunch of video game nerds who think they are big stars. When Cody Rhodes is one of your top stars, you know you are lacking in star power.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Yes, because Velveteen Dream, Matt Riddle and WALTER don’t belong on the same show as Kenny Omega, Evil Uno and Chuck Taylor. And Io Shirai would be opening for Riho. Yo, those PPVs cost $50, by the way. 

Omega seems to have an issue with putting his foot in his mouth when his ego gets threatened. I foresee it being an increasingly big problem.

Lol, have 1 million people ever sat down and watched a Kenny Omega match?


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

The XL 2 said:


> I don't know if he and AEW realizes it or not, but putting over the WWEs C team makes AEW look second rate. They shouldn't even bring those guys up, they're falling right for Vince's trap.


Meltzer hasn’t even picked up on it yet. I do like him, but his desire for something else is really coloring his commentary: 

* “There were no stars.” That’s the point. The “unknowns” are going to beat them. NXT is going to beat AEW with an NXT crew. 

* “They didn’t give any hooks.” They showed off an exciting and varied product that didn’t overstay its welcome or bore its fans. They set up two #1 Contenders and had a giant brawl. They also set up feuds between WALTER and KUSHIDA and The Undisputed Era and those that will be chasing them. 

* “They didn’t promote it well.” No shit. It’s a soft launch. This is the alternative product and they want it as far away from the machine as possible.

* “Velveteen Dream’s punches look weak.” Um, do you mention this when you talk about Kenny Omega or Jon Moxley’s work? Very few guys in wrestling can throw a punch anymore. 

* “They didn’t introduce the characters.” One of the biggest critiques of JR from All Out was that he kept pushing for that, because the people there are just people there. I couldn’t tell you much about any of them from the content of their shows. They expect everyone to get the joke. But apparently that is valid criticism because they, what, didn’t give you the life story of Roderick Strong. I can tell you he’s part of Undisputed Era and they had a “prophecy” that they would hold all the gold, and they did. And they’re cheaters. Cool. That’s more than I know about Kenny Omega from their PPVs. The criticism has to cut both ways.

And Kenny:

* Your best weapon right now is goodwill. If you turn yourself into a dick, you’ve got very little. People are working hard to support you. Don’t make it harder.


----------



## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

The Wood said:


> Yes, because Velveteen Dream, Matt Riddle and WALTER don’t belong on the same show as Kenny Omega, Evil Uno and Chuck Taylor. And Io Shirai would be opening for Riho. Yo, those PPVs cost $50, by the way.
> 
> Omega seems to have an issue with putting his foot in his mouth when his ego gets threatened. I foresee it being an increasingly big problem.
> 
> Lol, have 1 million people ever sat down and watched a Kenny Omega match?


Contrary though Kenny Omega is actually a really humble guy in real life. I just think he is putting over the promotion he works for. He's not going to say nice things about the competition. News flash. His character is really braggadocios.


----------



## LongPig666 (Mar 27, 2019)

Mordecay said:


> Also, did he really think that guys like Cole, Gargano, WALTER, Ciampa, Riddle, O'Reilly, Io, Dream, etc,


They are just developmental talent.


----------



## The Masked Avenger (Apr 18, 2018)

Anyone that can't tell that that was a kayfabe interview is an idiot. If you have ever watched anything Kenny has done, hell even what he has said after the other ppv's, he's an incredibly humble guy. It's very close to the promo he cut on Mox after he pulled out of AO.


----------



## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

He's in character idiots. He's good friends with a lot of those guys on NXT. He would never disrespect them like that. Kenny Omega as a character, is going to shit all over NXT because it's in his best interest to. Kenny Omega behind his character is one of the nicest and humble down to earth person in wrestling. Just watch him in interviews where he is not in character. The fact that he is pissing off NXT fans means he is doing his job.


----------



## MC (May 30, 2017)

Omega says equally as dumb things ALL THE TIME. He did it in New Japan (most of his title reign was him in twitter arguments :lol) and he'll do it in AEW. Get used to it quickly. Was he in character during the interview? Probably but this sounds like Omega to a tee, so whatever :shrug 

Just be grateful that he wasn't comparing his star rating average to the NXT roster. (And yes, he has mentioned his star rating average before).


----------



## LongPig666 (Mar 27, 2019)

The Wood said:


> Yes, because Velveteen Dream, Matt Riddle and WALTER don’t belong on the same show as Kenny Omega


They dont! Along side Dunne, the other UE and Bate, they took their 12 pieces of silver to go to a 'developmental' brand. They deserve 'developmental' viewing figures, 'developmental' audiences and 'developmental' respect.


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

V-Trigger said:


> My bad. It was XXV the show that did poorly on tickets.


Nah it did well https://411mania.com/wrestling/nxt-takeover-xxv-likely-to-sell-out-or-close-to-it/


----------



## patpat (Feb 17, 2019)

Mox Girl said:


> In addition to this, that show sold out. I tried to get tickets to it but I couldn't. So I don't know that guy is talking about :lol
> 
> 
> On the subject of Kenny, he has a big ego :lol But I guess that's part of his character (tbh I don't really know that much about him, only what I've read on here and seen in the very few matches of his I've watched so far).
> ...


because he is in character, just like he says they are friends and then proceeds to bury them. just like in the same interview he starts rambling about Moxley's future kids being unhappy and mox being a bad father. 
if anyone bothered to watch the full video maybe they would see the dude was in kayfabe lol

in an era of overreaction and where ( not talking specifically about you but in general) no one actually bothers to go to the source. I linked the full video interview to people who were raging on twitter and seeing afterward that its a freaking promo they just. were like "ohh" 
:lol


----------



## ellthom (May 2, 2011)

Everyone choosing sides, meanwhile I am here being like


----------



## LongPig666 (Mar 27, 2019)

ellthom said:


> Everyone choosing sides, meanwhile I am here being like


Lol. Is that 'Mongrels'?


----------



## SINdicate (Apr 9, 2019)

I think CM Punk made the most sense.

Here's a snippet of his thoughts from his Starrcast III interview:



> "I’m here to tell you, we need to realize that it’s all there for us and we should enjoy all of it. Like right now I see a lot of AEW hats, but realize you can watch all of the shit that’s out there. Don’t let either company trick you into thinking it’s an us vs. them thing, just enjoy the wrestling. Whether its WWE or AEW or NXT, you guys don’t have to choose, you can fucking watch it all, and it’s rad. Let them pretend like there’s some sort of war going on. You guys just get to reap the benefits. I think that’s great."


If people are adamant on choosing sides then let's take a look at the options:

A company that was founded 67 years ago and, since the eighties (40 years ago) has consistently been a global phenomenon that has captivated billions at, at least, _one_ point of their life or another. Through the good, the bad, and the terribly ugly, WWE has been a mainstream success in the realms of entertainment, marketing, advertising, financial revenue etc.

On the other hand:

A company that was founded 9 months ago, has had a handful of events, and, depending on the day, says they are not competing against WWE, despite always taking jabs at them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not slating AEW and I know the company longevity is not a fair argument to make but the more people in AEW that post things on Twitter or the interviews they give that always have a jab at WWE is steering me further and further away from their product. It's no different to what TNA did.

I _really_ want AEW to go out there in the television world and smash it by putting on captivating television with great characters and storytelling.. _without_ riding the coattails of WWE and the jabs they take at them. What happens when, further down the line, something happens and AEW isn't around? Everybody who has said something against WWE has permanent egg on their face and they either look even stupider by signing with WWE or they isolate themselves from "the biggest game in town" forever and just stick to the indies.

I know there are a great many people in AEW who are very talented but these petty interviews and social media posts have got to stop. It isn't, in my opinion, a good way to start building the foundations of your company that "isn't" competition.

A lot of the people there have come from the independent circuit.. perhaps they should do just that? be *independent*?


----------



## ellthom (May 2, 2011)

LongPig666 said:


> Lol. Is that 'Mongrels'?


yes... amazed someone actually got reference


----------



## BlackieDevil (Oct 11, 2016)

AEWMoxley said:


> Kenny Omega has finally found guys that he's a bigger name than - geeks on NXT that literally nobody on the planet has heard of.


Oh yeah! Because Kenny Omega is a bona fide mega ultra star.

It goes:
1 - Jesus
2 - Obama
3 - The Rock
4 - Metallica
5 - Kenny Omega


----------



## RelivingTheShadow (Apr 25, 2013)

Saintpat said:


> As for losers main eventing in UFC or whatever — it’s pretty rare. Ronda lost twice and *poof* she wasn’t the biggest star and wouldn’t have been able to keep drawing and main eventing. Try putting CMMA Punk on top of a UFC card now and see what kind of records you break. Bookmark this and remind me next time a 2-2 guy is main eventing a major MMA PPV.


If you want to compare CM Punk in the context of MMA to Kenny Omega in the context of pro-wrestling, there is no point of debating and I don't even know what to say. I'm not getting into a multi-paragraph monologue of why it makes sense, even though I kind of just did that, and you ignored it.

I feel like it's a pretty simple concept, but it just seems like you don't want to understand it.


----------



## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

validreasoning said:


> Nah it did well https://411mania.com/wrestling/nxt-takeover-xxv-likely-to-sell-out-or-close-to-it/


I heard Meltzer saying that the show wasn't cose to sell out tbh.


----------



## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

MC said:


> (And yes, he has mentioned his star rating average before).


Just like Will Ospreay, Okada and Tanahashi have done with match quality then . Nothing new.


----------



## Mordecay (Aug 15, 2014)

V-Trigger said:


> Just like Will Ospreay, Okada and Tanahashi have done with match quality then . Nothing new.


I don't think Okada or Tanahashi care much about the opinion of an american journalist, at least not as much as Omega


----------



## MC (May 30, 2017)

V-Trigger said:


> Just like Will Ospreay, Okada and Tanahashi have done with match quality then . Nothing new.


You've completely ignored the specific phase reason I used - "star rating average". Oh well. Nothing new, I suppose. Match quality is one thing, using one person's opinion as clout (in which its judged outside of kayfabe) in a kayfabe environment is completely different. And of course, you know that. Whatever.



Mordecay said:


> I don't think Okada or Tanahashi care much about the opinion of an american journalist, at least not as much as Omega


Cleaner, I got this.


----------



## jroc72191 (Sep 25, 2018)

V-Trigger said:


> Matt Riddle is the most overrated wrestler in years. Don't put him in the same category as someone that has won multiple awards in Japanese and western media.


B-B-B-BUT HES A LEGIT MMA GUY!!!


----------



## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

The Inbred Goatman said:


> If you want to compare CM Punk in the context of MMA to Kenny Omega in the context of pro-wrestling, there is no point of debating and I don't even know what to say. I'm not getting into a multi-paragraph monologue of why it makes sense, even though I kind of just did that, and you ignored it.
> 
> I feel like it's a pretty simple concept, but it just seems like you don't want to understand it.


That’s all well and good if Omega is not in an angle where the focal point is he can’t win a match, he’s slipping, and there’s going to be a redemption story arc rising out of that.

If there are no consequences to him losing, if he’s a main event guy regardless of if he wins or loses in a promotion who’s whole basis is ‘wins matter,’ you can go somewhere with that — make him a cocky heel who swings around his ‘I’m an EVP, I’m above wins and losses’ power to lord it over the roster — and that can work, but that doesn’t seem to be where this is going.

Otherwise, it’s a very simple concept — don’t put him in a Omega-can’t-win redemption angle because a main event guy who loses no status by losing matches doesn’t need to be redeemed.


----------



## Stinger Fan (Jun 21, 2006)

V-Trigger said:


> You don't know that?. Every big building that NXT has sold was thanks to being on the same weekend than a big WWE PPV. When they went to San Jose for TakeOver they drew a bad number


We kind of already have a baseline for numbers. All Out Pre show had roughly 400k viewers on TNT, while NXT had over 1 million on USA. The All Out Buyrate was also around 100k, so you're looking at an audience of potentially half of NXT's audience . You have to remember, that NXT's big shows are built as a fly in show, much like All In, All Out and Double or Nothing were. The filler AEW shows didn't do nearly as well as those shows did for a reason and hell, they weren't nearly as pushed by AEW themselves. 

Look, I'm not one side or the other, I want both to win. I've mentioned this months ago, people need to temper their expectations. Just enjoy the ride , people are pushing too hard that AEW will have this huge fan base right off the bat and goto war with WWE but as the old saying goes, Rome wasn't built in a day.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Saintpat said:


> That’s all well and good if Omega is not in an angle where the focal point is he can’t win a match, he’s slipping, and there’s going to be a redemption story arc rising out of that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He shouldn't be in a redemption angle to begin with. That's not the type of angle that's interesting if everyone is seeing it coming. 

I know some folk think they shouldn't have came out the gate presenting him as one of the best in the world, because not everyone is familiar with him. But going off that logic, I think a redemption angle makes even less sense. I mean if I'm not familiar with Omega, why should I care about him being redeemed and getting back to his old ways. At least presenting a new face as being "that damn good" gives me a reason to care.


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

Stinger Fan said:


> We kind of already have a baseline for numbers. *All Out Pre show had roughly 400k viewers on TNT,* while NXT had over 1 million on USA. The All Out Buyrate was also around 100k, so you're looking at an audience of potentially half of NXT's audience . You have to remember, that NXT's big shows are built as a fly in show, much like All In, All Out and Double or Nothing were. The filler AEW shows didn't do nearly as well as those shows did for a reason and hell, they weren't nearly as pushed by AEW themselves.
> 
> Look, I'm not one side or the other, I want both to win. I've mentioned this months ago, people need to temper their expectations. Just enjoy the ride , people are pushing too hard that AEW will have this huge fan base right off the bat and goto war with WWE but as the old saying goes, Rome wasn't built in a day.


Which was at 10pm and not promoted.


----------



## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

Mordecay said:


> I don't think Okada or Tanahashi care much about the opinion of an american journalist, at least not as much as Omega





MC said:


> You've completely ignored the specific phase reason I used - "star rating average". Oh well. Nothing new, I suppose. Match quality is one thing, using one person's opinion as clout (in which its judged outside of kayfabe) in a kayfabe environment is completely different. And of course, you know that. Whatever.
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaner, I got this.



I wasn't talking about Meltzer specifically but whatever helps you push your agenda. I remember Okada talking about doing his match with Kenny again because the great reviews that it got. Same with Tanahashi talking about Kenny having a better match with Jay than he did.


----------



## NascarStan (Mar 26, 2019)

Kenny is 100% correct that he would be main eventing over every single person in NXT in any wrestling company in the world including WWE considering how they gave him a 7 figure main event level contract and a six month out clause if he did not like his position in the company.


----------



## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

Stinger Fan said:


> We kind of already have a baseline for numbers. All Out Pre show had roughly 400k viewers on TNT, while NXT had over 1 million on USA. The All Out Buyrate was also around 100k, so you're looking at an audience of potentially half of NXT's audience . You have to remember, that NXT's big shows are built as a fly in show, much like All In, All Out and Double or Nothing were. The filler AEW shows didn't do nearly as well as those shows did for a reason and hell, they weren't nearly as pushed by AEW themselves.


Let's compare a heavily promoted debut show with a recap of a youtube show with little to no promotion. Shall we?.


----------



## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

I don't see this going straight to a redemption angle. Maybe after he goes heelish for a while. But he's being arrogant and frankly unlikable if you're a Mox fan or don't like other wrestlers being shit on.

And it's not on accident. He knows Mox is popular. Why the underhanded jabs if you're going to be a face?


----------



## Lethal Evans (Dec 18, 2013)

All the WWE fan boys waiting for this


----------



## McNugget (Aug 27, 2007)

rbl85 said:


> I think AEW is going to better than NXT for the first show.


I don't really see any evidence to suggest that's true, but I also don't think it's impossible. We'll see what happens.


----------



## Zappers (Mar 1, 2013)

At least Kenny got something right.

AEW is in competition with NXT ... NOT WWE main show/roster. Which is hilarious to me. AEW, the best wrestlers in the world ... blah blah... yet he's worrying about "developmental" wrestlers. The same wrestlers that will probably put AEW out of business.

:duck


----------



## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

Zappers said:


> At least Kenny got something right.
> 
> AEW is in competition with NXT ... NOT WWE main show/roster. Which is hilarious to me. AEW, the best wrestlers in the world ... blah blah... yet he's worrying about "developmental" wrestlers. The same wrestlers that will probably put AEW out of business.
> 
> :duck


It's amazing the amount of people who worship the Corporate dick these days and fondle its balls.

How dare AEW be a startup that has to work its way up. Let's crush them so WWE can go back to being FUCKING LAZY again!


----------



## Zappers (Mar 1, 2013)

Tilon said:


> It's amazing the amount of people who worship the Corporate dick these days and fondle its balls.
> 
> How dare AEW be a startup that has to work its way up. Let's crush them so WWE can go back to being FUCKING LAZY again!


They keep saying non stop, best wrestlers in the world, best wrestling in the world. They should have zero problem crushing the WWE. Zero.


----------



## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

Crushing WWE isn't their goal?.


----------



## Shaun_27 (Apr 12, 2011)

V-Trigger said:


> Crushing WWE isn't their goal?.


----------



## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

McNugget said:


> rbl85 said:
> 
> 
> > I think AEW is going to better than NXT for the first show.
> ...


NXT made it easy for AEW to do better on their debut. The NXT debut fell dead flat.


----------



## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

Zappers said:


> They keep saying non stop, best wrestlers in the world, best wrestling in the world. They should have zero problem crushing the WWE. Zero.


It takes a lot more than that to build a company. But you've probably only signed the back of checks in your life.


----------



## Zappers (Mar 1, 2013)

Tilon said:


> It takes a lot more than that to build a company. But you've probably only signed the back of checks in your life.



What does that even mean?

Edit: Oh, you mean go to daddy and beg for money to start up a hobby.

P.S. - In case you were wondering, because you obviously seemed curious or you wouldn't have brought it up. The back of the checks I sign are probably bigger than 90% of AEW roster. And I don't have to risk bodily injury to get them either.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop (Nov 2, 2015)

Zappers said:


> They keep saying non stop, best wrestlers in the world, best wrestling in the world. They should have zero problem crushing the WWE. Zero.


How is it you were not on my Ignore list. Got that problem fixed right quick.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop (Nov 2, 2015)

Tilon said:


> It takes a lot more than that to build a company. But you've probably only signed the back of checks in your life.


Not since Welfare started doing direct deposit.


----------



## Mox Girl (Sep 29, 2014)

I know this is a bit off topic but it does involve Kenny (and Mox)...

I wonder if AEW will take take jabs at WWE via their feud? Cos Mox is of course a former WWE guy, I wonder if Kenny will bring that up at all and make fun of him for it?


----------



## NotGuilty (Apr 6, 2015)

NXT needs new announcers :deandre


----------



## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

Mox Girl said:


> I know this is a bit off topic but it does involve Kenny (and Mox)...
> 
> I wonder if AEW will take take jabs at WWE via their feud? Cos Mox is of course a former WWE guy, I wonder if Kenny will bring that up at all and make fun of him for it?


I mean Mox already kind of did.






"I'm hitting people in the face with cream pies on TV."

So he already took a shot at himself for his former WWE stunts. So Mox has already acknowledged it really.

Personally I hope they don't and they don't need it. Kenny wasted no time in kicking Mox while he was down after Mox got hurt, only for Kenny to then lose to PAC and now is going on his own downward spiral thanks to Mox.

There's enough ammunition with that stuff alone, no need to take jabs at WWE in this case.


----------



## patpat (Feb 17, 2019)

Stinger Fan said:


> V-Trigger said:
> 
> 
> > You don't know that?. Every big building that NXT has sold was thanks to being on the same weekend than a big WWE PPV. When they went to San Jose for TakeOver they drew a bad number
> ...


 the preshow ( appart from the fact that it was just a bunch of youtune video put together that people already watched) but most importantly it was a show that wasnt advertised and was put on a night at 10 PM a friday night. That's the ultimate definition of a freaking dead slot. Comparing the numbers of prime time TV to the numbers of a friday night 10 pm slot is nonsensical. Because prime time will tend to do much less and with the lack of advertising you get the idea. You could see a lot of people not even knowing there a preshow on TNT.
So I think it would be more fair to use their actual wrestling show on prime time to determine what their viewersship is like. Just saying tho


----------



## patpat (Feb 17, 2019)

Saintpat said:


> The Inbred Goatman said:
> 
> 
> > If you want to compare CM Punk in the context of MMA to Kenny Omega in the context of pro-wrestling, there is no point of debating and I don't even know what to say. I'm not getting into a multi-paragraph monologue of why it makes sense, even though I kind of just did that, and you ignored it.
> ...


 there is going to be a payoff tho since he already made clear his goal is to get back into the main event scene and stop disappointing his fans.
This idea that a guy like omega is going to lose for no reason because he is selfless I domt buy it, there is going to be a rise , and quite frankly I think cody being a top face is just a momentary spot to cover omega's absence , but no way is he burying himself for no reason 
That's my view tho 

@rapshepard tou say there is no need for it because people saw it coming, but I witnessed a huge outrage and people complaining even going as far as shitting on the company and saying he should leave ( even tho he is a booker) even tho he lost. Yes the story might sound obvious, but we leave in an era where the smark culture have made it so people are very easily worked. So yeah I think the story is actually going to work.
And I think a good redemption angle to refresh the character a bit and introduce him to their tv audience isnt bad.
Saying "he was good in japan and he is going here too" might be mehh to a mainstream audience that doesnt know him and doesnt care that he is an all time great in japan that won the G1 iwgp heavyweight etc 
So using this background to tell the story of a rising fallen hero isnt a shitty idea.
Even tho your view of things I can see why it's also good I feel what he is doing now is a good reboot and a cool way to whipe away any fan fatigue. Why? Because I think omega will go on a veryyy long winning streak and domination ( just a feeling ) so starting on the loss isnt that bad. Maybe I am wrong tho


----------



## Mox Girl (Sep 29, 2014)

TD Stinger said:


> I mean Mox already kind of did.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL I'd forgotten about that. Mox hit KO with the pie confirmed :lol

I can't wait actually for Mox to reply to Kenny cos he's been quiet since his MRSA was confirmed, we need more Mox promos. That's why I'm soooo excited for the show to debut so Mox can talk more!


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> He's in character idiots. He's good friends with a lot of those guys on NXT. He would never disrespect them like that. Kenny Omega as a character, is going to shit all over NXT because it's in his best interest to. Kenny Omega behind his character is one of the nicest and humble down to earth person in wrestling. Just watch him in interviews where he is not in character. The fact that he is pissing off NXT fans means he is doing his job.


No it doesn’t. This is an incredibly poor take.

Chris Jericho learnt very early on that when you cut a promo, you don’t bury the guy you’re cutting a promo on because when they beat you, then everyone looks like shit. Omega tried to *bury* everyone in NXT. Joking or not. I don’t think it’s a funny joke, so it’s got that against it too. But even as an ironic statement, it backfires. 

If what Omega means by “NXT is bad” is “NXT is good,” then he actually promoted them. That is fucking stupid. If what he meant by “NXT is bad” is “NXT is bad,” then the way he said it erodes the goodwill from the _only_ fan base they have. 

All these people talking about him “working” when the big issue is that he doesn’t know how to and he’s EVP of this thing. 

Why do you think no one in the WWF came out and overtly stated that Goldberg was a one-trick pony and was a rookie that wouldn’t be in the position if he was in if he weren’t booked to win? Think about it. 

Since he’s been in this position, Omega has put his foot in his mouth at least twice now. I’m inclined to think he doesn’t know what he is doing, and I think it is more fuelled by a bruised ego than anything else. 

For those saying he is humble, what is your evidence? No one knows him. He’s had a winning ticket ever since AJ Styles left New Japan. It’s easy to be “humble” when things are going your way. When they’re not — like WWE running opposition — well, they say adversity introduces somebody to themselves.


----------



## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

I just want to say everyone in NXT wishes they could be Kenny Omega. He makes 3x more money then anyone there and he gets to be a top guy in his own company of which he is a Executive Vice President and founding member of The Elite. He has already accomplished more then anyone in NXT ever will.


----------



## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

Would you rather work for Vince/Triple H or would you rather work in a company that you are a founding member of, you are Vice President you get to work with your best friends and you get to get rich. Kenny Omega I can assure is living his best life while those guys in NXT work for shitty salaries and have to answer to big nose.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

V-Trigger said:


> Stinger Fan said:
> 
> 
> > We kind of already have a baseline for numbers. All Out Pre show had roughly 400k viewers on TNT, while NXT had over 1 million on USA. The All Out Buyrate was also around 100k, so you're looking at an audience of potentially half of NXT's audience . You have to remember, that NXT's big shows are built as a fly in show, much like All In, All Out and Double or Nothing were. The filler AEW shows didn't do nearly as well as those shows did for a reason and hell, they weren't nearly as pushed by AEW themselves.
> ...


The criticism of WWE lately has been that they *didn’t* promote it hard enough. Which one is it? 

Also, not promoting your show is not anyone else’s problem. WWE, for better or worse, will wear their lack of promotion. AEW will too. It’s not an excuse to be shit.

And to the person who says that everyone wishes they could be Kenny Omega. WWE is rolling in TV money and recently upped even Mike Kanellis, who they are _actively burying_ to $500k per year. And his wife. $5 million over 5 years. I’m sure WALTER is hurting for cash. 

There has never been a scenario where 1 million people have watched a Kenny Omega match live or taped. Ever. He’s getting nervous. He says stupid things when he’s nervous, because his whole image to the pre-existent wrestling fan is “I’m special.” If he falls off that scaffold, he is done. He’s hired Riho and his business partners have hired Orange Cassidy. And they’re walking into a fight with a serious promotion. Eeeeep.


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

What's the problem with Riho ?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Zappers said:


> At least Kenny got something right.
> 
> AEW is in competition with NXT ... NOT WWE main show/roster. Which is hilarious to me. AEW, the best wrestlers in the world ... blah blah... yet he's worrying about "developmental" wrestlers. The same wrestlers that will probably put AEW out of business.
> 
> :duck


He specifically said they’re not competition - they’re not on his level

Why do you think people are so butthurt?


----------



## RubberbandGoat (Aug 9, 2016)

Why are people thinking AEW won’t beat NXT? Have you seen the ratings for WWE? Not impressive! They’re setting a low bar. You’re going to be surprised how easily AEW will beat them! You keep underestimating them for some reason!


----------



## CRCC (Sep 25, 2017)

LOL

15 pages for that statement.

I must get ready for a horrible mark war once AEW goes head to head with NXT.


----------



## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

Shaun_27 said:


>


Still butthurt over a gimmick thing huh?.


----------



## Shaun_27 (Apr 12, 2011)

V-Trigger said:


> Still butthurt over a gimmick thing huh?.


:lmao, my tongue was firmly in my cheek when I posted this gif.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

rbl85 said:


> What's the problem with Riho ?


She’s not very good. Works very light and you can’t buy her offense. She’s so small that when she runs the ropes (or is whipped and touches them) it takes a bear longer and throws off the pacing of the match. Her vs. Hikaru Shida was, frankly, sloppy and boring. And the crowd thought so too, so even if you’re going to take a “Nah! I like her! She’s awesome! You’re too critical!” stance, you have to concede that match died a death.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

RubberbandGoat said:


> Why are people thinking AEW won’t beat NXT? Have you seen the ratings for WWE? Not impressive! They’re setting a low bar. You’re going to be surprised how easily AEW will beat them! You keep underestimating them for some reason!


They could have beaten them. They could have gotten over 2 million viewers easy. I think they’ll still get over that for the debut, but they are not retaining that audience. They will keep about 40%. They’ll get between 800k and 1.4 million. NXT will grow its audience and I think they handedly smoke them once the dust is settled.

People aren’t going to watch Orange Cassidy over WALTER.


----------



## MarkOfAllMarks (Apr 7, 2018)

The Wood said:


> *She’s not very good.* Works very light and you can’t buy her offense. She’s so small that when she runs the ropes (or is whipped and touches them) it takes a bear longer and throws off the pacing of the match. Her vs. Hikaru Shida was, frankly, sloppy and boring. And the crowd thought so too, so even if you’re going to take a “Nah! I like her! She’s awesome! You’re too critical!” stance, you have to concede that match died a death.


You are wrong.


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

The Wood said:


> She’s not very good. Works very light and you can’t buy her offense. She’s so small that when she runs the ropes (or is whipped and touches them) it takes a bear longer and throws off the pacing of the match. Her vs. Hikaru Shida was, frankly, sloppy and boring. And the crowd thought so too, so even if you’re going to take a “Nah! I like her! She’s awesome! You’re too critical!” stance, you have to concede that match died a death.


I really don't agree with you but I respect your opinion.


----------



## Mordecay (Aug 15, 2014)

MarkOfAllMarks said:


> I just want to say everyone in NXT wishes they could be Kenny Omega. He makes 3x more money then anyone there and he gets to be a top guy in his own company of which he is a Executive Vice President and founding member of The Elite. *He has already accomplished more then anyone in NXT ever will.*


I am not sure about that, it just take 1 NXT guy becoming a top guy in WWE and probably will become more succesful than Kenny


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

rbl85 said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> > She’s not very good. Works very light and you can’t buy her offense. She’s so small that when she runs the ropes (or is whipped and touches them) it takes a bear longer and throws off the pacing of the match. Her vs. Hikaru Shida was, frankly, sloppy and boring. And the crowd thought so too, so even if you’re going to take a “Nah! I like her! She’s awesome! You’re too critical!” stance, you have to concede that match died a death.
> ...


That’s fair. You’re allowed to enjoy her. Respect right back at ya. 



Mordecay said:


> MarkOfAllMarks said:
> 
> 
> > I just want to say everyone in NXT wishes they could be Kenny Omega. He makes 3x more money then anyone there and he gets to be a top guy in his own company of which he is a Executive Vice President and founding member of The Elite. *He has already accomplished more then anyone in NXT ever will.*
> ...


I guarantee more people know who Velveteen Dream than who Kenny Omega is. Dream just wrestled in front of over 1 million people. He’s also been on Takeovers which are on a streaming service which gets more traffic than New Japan World. The AXS TV show only gets a couple of hundred thousand viewers. 

Was Omega making more money? Probably at one point, but NXT deals were recently upped because of the TV. We know even acts like _Mike Kanellis_ are getting $500,000. Dream is getting paid. 

The big thing with AEW was that it would look after the boys and let them be “professional wrestlers.” No phoney scripts, freedom to construct your own matches, treating talent with respect. Since the Vince being heavily involved in NXT’s creative rumor proved to be completely off-base (as logic would have dictated, as hard as that can be to apply to WWE), it’s now evident that AEW is going head-to-head with proper pro-wrestling. They’re shitting bricks because they intended to be a parody of main roster WWE. PWG with some NXT elements. They didn’t consider that they would get NXT with no PWG elements. That’s why Omega is salty. They were playing checkers while WWE were playing chess, and we know he gets whiny when “the machine” does what the machine is going to do (like running opposition to Fight for the Fallen). I bet you Omega thinks it isn’t fair that AEW has to compete against good wrestling. That wasn’t what he signed up for.

On the first episode of NXT they introduced us to ten different women. That was more in a two-hour show than were featured on a three-hour PPV hosted by AEW. Who treats women better? 

AEW is inclusive. Great, I support inclusion. On the first episode of NXT we saw talent from five different continents. There were wrestlers from England, Northern Ireland, Austria, Germany, China, Japan, Canada, Puerto Rico, Brazil and New Zealand that got a spotlight on the show. Mia Yim is of Korean descent. Sean Maluta is of Samoan background. 

I only bring that up because the idea that AEW has the more diverse roster is a myth. They’ve got women from the US, Canada and Japan. Nyla Rose is of Oneida heritage. The men are from Canada, Mexico, the US, the UK or South Africa. I’m not sure where specifically LAX are from. But that’s 5 countries all-round to twice as many in a debut 2-hour show. 

NXT, Triple H, WWE or whoever are quietly calling AEW on their bullshit. That’s why they said “No BS” and that’s why Omega’s getting all salty. Minus the big arenas, which is a deliberate choice at this point, Triple H is doing All Elite better than All Elite.


----------



## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

Again, responding to another troll comment. Last time I promise 



The Wood said:


> I guarantee more people know who Velveteen Dream than who Kenny Omega is.


Kenny Omega and Tanahashi press conference in New Years eve early this year in Shibuya was watched by millions of people. Kenny Omega was in the main event of two Tokyo Domes and multiple Dominions in Osaka Jo-Hall. So you are wrong from the get-go.



The Wood said:


> NXT, Triple H, WWE or whoever are quietly calling AEW on their bullshit. That’s why they said “No BS” and that’s why Omega’s getting all salty.


They literally had two run-ins during the show. So much for no BS 

Aaaand to the list.


----------



## bmack086 (Aug 21, 2015)

He 100% has a point. Moxley, Omega, Cody, Jericho, & The Bucks are more accomplished (in the public eye) and better known than anyone NXT. The Lucha Bros. would be treated like Gods in NXT.

Now, after those names, though AEW is pretty pathetic. Their undercard just screams independent scene. But, NXT is basically just ROH on a larger scale. However you want to slice it, AEW should hope that they are a bigger deal than NXT.


----------



## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

bmack086 said:


> He 100% has a point. Mosley, Omega, Cody, Jericho, & The Bucks are more accomplished (in the public eye) and better known than anyone NXT. The Lucha Bros. would be treated like Gods in NXT.
> 
> Now, after those names, though AEW is pretty pathetic. Their undercard just screams independent scene. But, NXT is basically just ROH on a larger scale. However you want to slice it, AEW should hope that they are a bigger deal than NXT.


NXT is literally PWG/ROH/EVOLVE from 3 years ago with a bunch of Football players in the PC.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

patpat said:


> @rapshepard tou say there is no need for it because people saw it coming, but I witnessed a huge outrage and people complaining even going as far as shitting on the company and saying he should leave ( even tho he is a booker) even tho he lost. Yes the story might sound obvious, but we leave in an era where the smark culture have made it so people are very easily worked. So yeah I think the story is actually going to work.
> And I think a good redemption angle to refresh the character a bit and introduce him to their tv audience isnt bad.
> Saying "he was good in japan and he is going here too" might be mehh to a mainstream audience that doesnt know him and doesnt care that he is an all time great in japan that won the G1 iwgp heavyweight etc
> So using this background to tell the story of a rising fallen hero isnt a shitty idea.
> Even tho your view of things I can see why it's also good I feel what he is doing now is a good reboot and a cool way to whipe away any fan fatigue. Why? Because I think omega will go on a veryyy long winning streak and domination ( just a feeling ) so starting on the loss isnt that bad. Maybe I am wrong tho


To me I just don't see what's the appeal of that regardless of if you're in the know with Omega or not. I still think he should've been 1st champ, but I get the idea of wanting to build his eventual title win into something epic. But this storyline isn't that epic, it's just very meh.


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

The Wood said:


> They could have beaten them. They could have gotten over 2 million viewers easy. I think they’ll still get over that for the debut, but they are not retaining that audience. They will keep about 40%. They’ll get between 800k and 1.4 million. NXT will grow its audience and I think they handedly smoke them once the dust is settled.
> 
> People aren’t going to watch Orange Cassidy over WALTER.


One will be a lower card act whilst one is a main event talent. It is like me comparing Moxley with R-Truth and saying no one is watching R-Truth over moxley. If you are going to do comparsion at least be fair about it. Or in NXT no one is watching Sean Maluta over Jon Moxley. WALTER also won't be there every week unless he suddendly changed his mind about staying in Austria. But then again you have a massive hate boner for Orange Cassidy.


----------



## Tilon (Jun 27, 2019)

Everything up until now has been PPVs prior to their having the production ability of TNT. They've been very limited in what they can do story wise except for show matches.

With TNT they're going to be doing skits and storylines. I've been watching a BTE compilation series that does a great job making a cliff's notes of it. They're all total loons, and it's funny as hell.

If they put together a good TV show, it's definitely going to compete. NXT has misread them if they think a straight wrestling show is going to be what competes against them.

Here's the series I've been watching. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCJ94yqxcDI&list=PLJv4JuRzDHneS5CAHVJ6hKUz2BnZIUT0t&index=3


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

V-Trigger said:


> Again, responding to another troll comment. Last time I promise <img src="http://i.imgur.com/NCRsZl9.png" border="0" alt="" title="" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It’s not a troll comment. Why do people constantly try and dismiss any criticism of any of these guys as a troll? 

Do you have a source for those millions in Japan. I never heard this. If so, then I stand corrected. But I don’t know what wrestling at the Tokyo Dome has to do with having more worldwide recognition. I’m not making a comment as to whether or not Omega has main evented an important show for New Japan — I am commenting on how many people saw it. 

New Japan World stood at <200k worldwide subscribers last I checked. I may be wrong on that, but it’s certainly less than 1 million. All these world famous Omega matches have been watched by less than 1 million people. Even free versions of sites like DailyMotion don’t reach that mark. 

That is what it is. It’s not a troll or even a criticism, really. But I don’t know where this “more people know Kenny Omega” idea is coming from. He’s only known to hardcore wrestling fans, and wrestling fans also know Velveteen Dream. 



Death Rider said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> > They could have beaten them. They could have gotten over 2 million viewers easy. I think they’ll still get over that for the debut, but they are not retaining that audience. They will keep about 40%. They’ll get between 800k and 1.4 million. NXT will grow its audience and I think they handedly smoke them once the dust is settled.
> ...


Yeah, but they’re both on the same show. I don’t know why people isolate its elements like that. R-Truth would also be a detriment to a serious wrestling product in 2019, yes. I don’t get the point. I’d worry if AEW we’re running with R-Truth too. 

Those acts might clash. If Orange Cassidy is going on the show, he could very well be going against WALTER. Sean Maluta was used as an enhancement talent. No one is watching Orange Cassidy over Cameron Grimes either. No one is watching Kenny Omega over WALTER. It runs up and down the card. That there is functional waste in AEW is the point, and that should be an oxymoron.


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

Yeah and just cause you don't like orange cassidy does not mean everyone else hates him. Also there are going to be people who prefer Kenny omega to walter. There is a place for different types of wrestling on a show but you and cornette don't understand that







.

Also I would sooner watch an orange cassidy match then Cameron Grimes who is meh to me


----------



## CenaBoy4Life (Jul 31, 2013)

More than star power i think a big draw difference will be wrestling style. A lot of people are used to WWE style of matches. 

For example I havent really enjoyed a single AEW tag match yet but i do like a boy and the dinosaur for the characters. Im just not into young buck style tornado spotfest.I know if both shows announce a tag team main event im probably not tuning into AEW.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Death Rider said:


> Yeah and just cause you don't like orange cassidy does not mean everyone else hates him. Also there are going to be people who prefer Kenny omega to walter. There is a place for different types of wrestling on a show but you and cornette don't understand that <img src="http://i.imgur.com/7KU7Fqx.png" border="0" alt="" title="Draper" class="inlineimg" />.
> 
> Also I would sooner watch an orange cassidy match then Cameron Grimes who is meh to me


People will vote with their dollars and their eyeballs. I’m not trying to argue from authority, but the number of people who don’t like acts like Orange Cassidy is indicative by the number of people who don’t go to wrestling anymore. People switched off because of shit like this. 

You can like it. You’re allowed. It doesn’t mean it has widespread appeal though. And shit like OC minimizes the potential reach AEW has. People don’t want to be insulted while they watch TV. Only modern fans are that masochistic. 

People like Cornette understand how and why wrestling works, and how and why it has been important culturally. That a few people like the silly stuff that parodies what it was doesn’t outweigh what it was. People like you don’t understand that. 

You can call yourself “The Fleatles” all you want. You can play music that makes fun of Beatles hits. You can say you love music at the same time as you break all its rules, but you’re actually just...wrong. And that’s going to hit people hard soon. Some things work, some things don’t. It’s not *all* subjective and a matter of opinion. 

They’re doing shit *wrong*. It’s just wrong. And no one is allowed to call them out for it without being called a troll. And then when they are proven right the line is going to be “Well, you didn’t know in advance. You got lucky. Also, it was your tone.” And then you’ll be stuck with WWE and blaming people like me when it’s people leading them into certain death. 

Well, they won’t actually die. But being TNA 2.0 is basically the same thing.


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

It also doesnt mean people like orange cant bewide spread interested. Exact oposit of you. To many people on here seem to think they get to tell everyone who they get to like and who should be excepted or popular. Far from reality as evrry wrestling fan is different and that's why you habe a diverse roster


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## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

The Wood said:


> Death Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah and just cause you don't like orange cassidy does not mean everyone else hates him. Also there are going to be people who prefer Kenny omega to walter. There is a place for different types of wrestling on a show but you and cornette don't understand that <img src="http://i.imgur.com/7KU7Fqx.png" border="0" alt="" title="Draper" class="inlineimg" />.
> ...


And being bluntly honest as long as they put on a show I like, i don't give a fuck if it is mainstream. I don't gain any more enjoyment out of a show beating wwe. MLW ain't mainstream but I fucking enjoy it.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

shandcraig said:


> It also doesnt mean people like orange cant bewide spread interested. Exact oposit of you. To many people on here seem to think they get to tell everyone who they get to like and who should be excepted or popular. Far from reality as evrry wrestling fan is different and that's why you habe a diverse roster


This is exactly the point I am making. Having a diverse roster (which they really don’t) isn’t actually a good thing. People don’t want “something for everyone” in hope that 10% hits and 90% misses. They’re going to watch something else.

Orange Cassidy does not have widespread appeal potential. It’s shit like this that marginalized wrestling in the first place.



Death Rider said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> > Death Rider said:
> ...


Okay, that’s wonderful for you. Some people want wrestling to be successful and accessible. Some people want wrestling promotions like MLW, which is damn fine, to get more opportunities, not fewer.


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## americanoutlaw (Jul 13, 2012)

I know Kenny Omega say this to get someone's goat but got say how funny is is because how irony it is. Looking at AEW roster it just fill with wrestlers who did time in wwe developmental.
you got 
Kenny Omega 
Pac
Cody
Shawn Spears
Trent Beretta[
Luchasaurus[
Jon Moxley
Christopher Daniels
Brandi Rhodes

Also Dasha Kuret


what that say about them??


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## ReekOfAwesomenesss (Apr 6, 2012)

americanoutlaw said:


> I know Kenny Omega say this to get someone's goat but got say how funny is is because how irony it is. Looking at AEW roster it just fill with wrestlers who did time in wwe developmental.
> you got
> Kenny Omega
> Pac
> ...


that they are no longer development talent like NXT roster.


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## americanoutlaw (Jul 13, 2012)

ReekOfAwesomenesss said:


> that they are no longer development talent like NXT roster.


there wrestlers on AEW that need to be in some development 
nyla Rose


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## TwistedLogic (Feb 17, 2013)

As much as I am completely on the AEW bandwagon and haven't watched a minute of WWE programming in years (besides Mania/Rumble), this is 100% Kenny just building kayfabe hype. It's complete bullshit that if he had guys like Adam Cole, Johnny Gargano or Roderick Strong on his promotion, that he'd be giving them dark match spots. They'd all be featured heavily on the card and would all rotate in and out of the main event.


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