# 4 Horsemen hype



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

I know a lot of people aren’t excited about this - but I am. I’ve missed all the runs of the 4HM - but I read up a lot on them

in a lot of ways they are almost my favourite stable, even though I‘ve never seen a match, as when I lived in South Africa, with wresting being a month behind, or years in some cases - and a shitty internet connected - I read from all the sources I could find about the 4HW

now, to potentially have then in AEW with Arn and Tully involved - well, I am hyped

thoughts?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267517597349707778

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267532065723101185

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1265836073395068932

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1265839326216273920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267541538369867776
I think we have Spears, Cody and FTR

I’ve been hoping for Hangman - but let’s be honest, he’s the biggest Babyface waiting to happen


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## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

I'd be excited if they do it right. I've said elsewhere here I believe, but if they are going to bring it back they need Cody and FTR to be signed up basically for the rest of their careers. 

Spears would be bad in it - it would taint it right away. But with Cody, Dax, Cash, Arn and Tully involved maybe that's enough to surround him with to rehab him. I mean he would have to swallow his pride a bit to go back to working with Cody, and under Cody's leadership of the faction. And he does have size respective to the roster. Still far from ideal, but I would give it a chance. Mohawk has to go though.


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

Not the Horsemen without Flair. If this is a stable, they should use a different name


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## Whoanma (Apr 5, 2016)




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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I'd be excited if they do it right. I've said elsewhere here I believe, but if they are going to bring it back they need Cody and FTR to be signed up basically for the rest of their careers.
> 
> Spears would be bad in it - it would taint it right away. But with Cody, Dax, Cash, Arn and Tully involved maybe that's enough to surround him with to rehab him. I mean he would have to swallow his pride a bit to go back to working with Cody, and under Cody's leadership of the faction. And he does have size respective to the roster. Still far from ideal, but I would give it a chance. Mohawk has to go though.


Yes. I can get behind it, but only if they’re going ALL IN with it. This can’t be something they use for a PPV or two, not even a year or two. All In.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

If they build a good new stable and use the legends correctly, sounds good to me.


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Have Spears think he's in with them only for them to viciously beat him down. Blood, everything.

Cody, FTR, Arn and Tully and a young up and comer would be fine, but it's about finding the right up-and-comer. Maybe it could be a way to introduce Ogogo? Natural athlete, Olympic medallist - but maybe too inexperienced to go right away.


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## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

Geeee said:


> Not the Horsemen without Flair. If this is a stable, they should use a different name


I understand this feeling. I just hope it wouldn't be Nightmare Family and make it a complete Cody outfit. 

Flair was the centerpiece, but they have Arn and Tully - both long term members. Hell they even have Dean Malenko who was a replacement member. They could even bring in Barry Windham for a stint to be involved. 

Maybe like The Midnight Riders or something. Homage both to Dusty with the name wile referencing Horsemen with the Rider monicker. I'd go with Four Horsemen over that.


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## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

damn. That Tully promo was fire.

Now it all explains why Spears became a goofball when Tully left his side.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

yup, Tully’s promo was fire


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## taker1986 (Sep 14, 2016)

Great Promo by Tully. 

The only issue I have is that this sort of thing should've been shown on Dynamite instead of being posted on twitter. I sometimes get the feeling that if you don't watch BTE or have twitter that you're sometimes missing out on part of the storylines and that's not good.


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## AEWMoxley (May 26, 2019)

Another stable for Moxley to easily run through.


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## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

I think there is a future heel stable. I think Cody will turn eventually. It will be Horsemen vs Elite.


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## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

Geeee said:


> Not the Horsemen without Flair. If this is a stable, they should use a different name


Just call them "The Horsemen".


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

This would be a great heel act for the future. Inner Circle can't be a thing at the same time though. They already have enough 3 man+ stables.


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## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

Aren't there too many stables already?. IC, Elite, DO, and now probably this. They need to disband DO atleast if this is in the plans.


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## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

zkorejo said:


> Aren't there too many stables already?. IC, Elite, DO, and now probably this. They need to disband DO atleast if this is in the plans.


I don’t think there’s anything wrong with this.
Think about gaming - there’s a ton of clans.
If booked right, they can all have individual storylines and still be affiliated with the Elite or whoever. I like the idea of wrestlers having enemies and allies. Elite are not really a group but will band together when needed. Then you have lone rebels, like Moxley or MJF.


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## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

I want more stables and teams. Except for Moxley and Darby. Let them be freelancers.

As for this group idk about Spears. Even at his best he doesn’t necessarily fit. Cody, FTR and who?.


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## Swan-San (May 25, 2019)

What a promo, wtf wasn't that on Dynamite, i'm baffled. They need more backstage interactions like this to drive story. I don't want spears as part of it, wouldn't have minded if he was booked well but he's been booked like crap so why bother.


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## ProjectGargano (Apr 7, 2018)

NXT Only said:


> I want more stables and teams. Except for Moxley and Darby. Let them be freelancers.
> 
> As for this group idk about Spears. Even at his best he doesn’t necessarily fit. Cody, FTR and who?.


Yes, this is the NJPW way!


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## ceeder (May 10, 2010)

Cody
Hangman
FTR
w/ Tully & Arn

Here is how I would do it:

1. FTR destroy Spears/whichever partner in their debut match and Tully sides with them, dumping Spears.

2. FTR w/ Tully eventually gain a tag title shot against Hangman/Omega, where Hangman turns on Omega and allows FTR to win the titles. Bucks come for the save after the bell but get beat down by Page and FTR with Tully. 

3. Big blow off 3 v 3 match. In a Hangman/FTR v. Omega/Bucks bout, Tully interferes. Arn comes for the save, faces off with Tully in the ring. Crowd going crazy. FTR and Hangman slide in the ring, Arn is now outnumbered. Cody comes to save him but in the stand off, he turns heel. All of them beat down Omega/Bucks.

The Horsemen.


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## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

Spears as a horsemen lol


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Where are all the people that said Shawn Spears was done and buried? This is how easy it is to build someone back up and use a storyline/promo to get someone back on track. If Spears were to go on an undefeated streak after that Tully promo, no one would question it.


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## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267560582489821184
A little help you say?

A big angle is being set up here. Spears inclusion with FTR will be to make folks not assume Cody would be involved. How much more shocking would it be to see Cody align with a group that includes Spears?

How to get Cody/Bucks into a cage with Spears/FTR now? Maybe just Bucks vs FTR, Spears attacks and Cody "makes the save" only to attack them as well. With Cody involved and a EVP that would discourage others in the back from getting involved. Just need to have Omega and Page written off somewhere.


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## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

reyfan said:


> Spears as a horsemen lol


He ain't no Mongo McMichael that's for sure. Paul Roma maybe.


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## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

Great promo by Tully. I ain't convinced this will turn Spears around because it feels like we've been down that road what feels like 5 times in the past year. But it least it should give him some direction going forward.

I think Cody as the leader and being the evil prick in a suit, and FTR are perfect as the team for this kind of stable. Spears could at least be the fall guy.


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## Oracle (Nov 9, 2011)

prosperwithdeen said:


> Where are all the people that said Shawn Spears was done and buried? This is how easy it is to build someone back up and use a storyline/promo to get someone back on track. If Spears were to go on an undefeated streak after that Tully promo, no one would question it.


He is dead and burried. 

Tully will turn on him as if shawn spears is going to be a horseman lmao


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

reyfan said:


> Spears as a horsemen lol


dude, please - Mongo was a 4HM


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## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

optikk sucks said:


> I don’t think there’s anything wrong with this.
> Think about gaming - there’s a ton of clans.
> If booked right, they can all have individual storylines and still be affiliated with the Elite or whoever. I like the idea of wrestlers having enemies and allies. Elite are not really a group but will band together when needed. Then you have lone rebels, like Moxley or MJF.


Elite are like that, which is cool in an avengers-like kind of a way. It works with them because everyone knows how they became Elite, due to their BC days and their real life bonding on BTE. Groups formed in a wrestling show like DO or IC, not so much. They seem very much like a wrestling stable that has an expiration date unlike Elite. 

I get your point though. If done right it wont be as noticeable.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

More...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267560582489821184


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

ceeder said:


> Cody
> Hangman
> FTR
> w/ Tully & Arn
> ...


So damned good. I’d mark out for this angle.


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Oracle said:


> He is dead and burried.
> 
> Tully will turn on him as if shawn spears is going to be a horseman lmao


Lol that could happen. I was more so talking about how easy it is for talent to get back over. If they wanted to take that Tully promo for a redemption angle for Spears, it would be easy to do so.


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

ceeder said:


> Cody
> Hangman
> FTR
> w/ Tully & Arn
> ...


Why does anyone want to see Hangman turn heel?

I've never understood it.

Out of everyone in The Elite, Hangman is the only one who screams kickass babyface. Omega is infinitely better as a heel. Bucks are natural heels and Cody comes across as a heel. If anything, turn Omega heel and have him join the horseman, it could kickstart his AEW singles career.

Or is it just because 'Hangman' and him coming out on a horse just fits and that's it?


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

You guys know who else reformed The Horsemen? TNA.

















---

The Tully promo was indeed awesome but once again it's AEW trying to cater to the fans on Twitter and tease stuff that should be teased on television. Imagine how well that would've kicked off if on Dynamite we open the show up with Tully Blanchard popping out of a limo as JR says "Ladies and Gentleman, I've received word tonight that Tully Blanchard is here for the first time in months because he wants to speak face to face with his protege Shawn Spears who arrived at the building earlier today. More information as we can get it to you" and then we get this passionate promo from the guy and slowly reveal the other moving components week to week as people speculate who might join and when.

Instead we see AEW immediately blow any surprise and blow what could've been a good segment on Dynamite on Twitter whilst the guys who have already pretty much told the world that they're forming a group share it and so heavily tease it that a blind man could see it coming. Of course when it plays out on TV the announcers will be shocked despite the fact we've already been told it's happening.



prosperwithdeen said:


> Where are all the people that said Shawn Spears was done and buried? This is how easy it is to build someone back up and use a storyline/promo to get someone back on track. If Spears were to go on an undefeated streak after that Tully promo, no one would question it.


I've only watched the promo today because this thread was made where people said how awesome it was. My interest on Spears is still zero and he has been totally buried. He's a geek that wears Tully Blanchard underwear.


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I've only watched the promo today because this thread was made where people said how awesome it was. My interest on Spears is still zero and he has been totally buried. He's a geek that wears Tully Blanchard underwear.


Lol and if that promo leads to an undefeated streak or some kind of babyface resurgence?


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

prosperwithdeen said:


> Lol and if that promo leads to an undefeated streak or some kind of babyface resurgence?


How can I take him seriously? He got his ass kicked on a big PPV in 4 minutes flat by a dude in his fifties who stripped him to his Tully Blanchard underwear and humiliated him. Now AEW says "Hey take him serious please" and I'm supposed to? Doesn't work that way.


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## Oracle (Nov 9, 2011)

prosperwithdeen said:


> Lol and if that promo leads to an undefeated streak or some kind of babyface resurgence?


Thats just an excuse for poor story telling.


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Chip Chipperson said:


> How can I take him seriously? He got his ass kicked on a big PPV in 4 minutes flat by a dude in his fifties who stripped him to his Tully Blanchard underwear and humiliated him. Now AEW says "Hey take him serious please" and I'm supposed to? Doesn't work that way.


Except it does work that way lol. Trust me I know what you mean and I know what you're trying to say. But this has been happening in wrestling forever. Being buried doesn't really mean much if you have the right angle/storyline to get you back on a role. Just because you can't take it seriously doesn't mean the mostly brain-dead wrestling audience won't lol. Wrestling is not meant to be taken seriously.

Recent cases of jokes that have been rebuilt or are beginning to be rebuilt:

-Apollo Crews (jobber for 5 years and now picking up steam)
-Kevin Owens (up and down on his entire main roster run. Made to look like a joke against Goldberg then became hittest babyface in the company at one point)
-Angel Garza (jobber now looking better)
-Bray Wyatt (this guy had it worse than Spears)
-Bobby Lashley (buried over and over now looking strong)
-Rusev Day (buried by John Cena then got over with Rusev Day angle)
-Dolph Ziggler (has been a joke multiple times in his career and has been over multiple times with hot storylines)
-Becky Lynch (jobber in a way before getting over after SSlam angle)
-Andrade Cien Almas (jobber before US Title)
-Buddy Murphy (jobber and a joke before storyline with Bryan)
-Liv Morgan (absolute jobber before her new storyline)
-Bayley and Sasha Banks

I could go on and on forever. If Spears goes on a babyface undefeated streak after that powerful promo from Tully or if he aligns himself with Cody in a heel Horsemen angle, you think the audience won't eat that shit up? lol



Oracle said:


> Thats just an excuse for poor story telling.


Yeah to you it is lol but I see it as what I have been watching in wrestling for years and years. Poor storytelling to you or not, emotional pep talk angles like that will always work and get over with people. Only problem is that AEW needs to be airing this shit on live TV.


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## Marbar (Dec 20, 2019)

This may sound stupid but isn't Tessa's contract up this year? Sign her as the 4th member. There's no unwritten law saying the 4th member has to be male. She would make a lot more sense than spears and ties to the original Horseman. If Spears has to be in it until her contract expires she can make an appearance at a pay per view and thats when they turn on him.


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Marbar said:


> This may sound stupid but isn't Tessa's contract up this year? Sign her as the 4th member. There's no unwritten law saying the 4th member has to be male. She would make a lot more sense than spears and ties to the original Horseman. If Spears has to be in it until her contract expires she can make an appearance at a pay per view and thats when they turn on him.


As long as she isn't wrestling the men, I'd be all for it.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The fact that promo was not aired for the first time on their flagship show is a crime.


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## Marbar (Dec 20, 2019)

I agree El Hammerstone. Use Tessa to lock up the womens championship. FTR for the tag belts and Cody for the TNT championship. Hell pull in a 5th member for the championship to lock up all the titles. Let the reign of terror begin.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

prosperwithdeen said:


> Except it does work that way lol. Trust me I know what you mean and I know what you're trying to say. But this has been happening in wrestling forever. Being buried doesn't really mean much if you have the right angle/storyline to get you back on a role. Just because you can't take it seriously doesn't mean the mostly brain-dead wrestling audience won't lol. Wrestling is not meant to be taken seriously.
> 
> I could go on and on forever. If Spears goes on a babyface undefeated streak after that powerful promo from Tully or if he aligns himself with Cody in a heel Horsemen angle, you think the audience won't eat that shit up? lol


I can't comment on any of the WWE stuff because I don't watch it. Maybe some others can confirm if all of them were buried or just made to look bad.

With Spears he hasn't been made to look bad but he has been heavily buried and there is a pretty big difference. You can come back from looking bad but when you literally have your pants pulled down revealing that you wear underwear with another mans face on it and get your ass kicked by a man in his fifties it's hard to come back from. Like it or not wrestling is at it's most successful when taken seriously and as it was pointed out above it's just bad story telling to have a guy from midcard geek who loses quite often to world beater makes no sense.

He has no reason to align with Cody after the beef they've had but this is AEW so yeah, the audience would probably eat that shit up because it's AEW and AEW never do anything wrong.


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## AEWMoxley (May 26, 2019)

Marbar said:


> I agree El Hammerstone. Use Tessa to lock up the womens championship. FTR for the tag belts and Cody for the TNT championship. Hell pull in a 5th member for the championship to lock up all the titles. Let the reign of terror begin.


I like where you're going with this. You've got to really build this group up before Moxley singlehandedly tears them down. After he easily disposed of the Inner Circle and Dark Order, this new stable has to be made super strong for them to be believable going up against Moxley.


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I can't comment on any of the WWE stuff because I don't watch it. Maybe some others can confirm if all of them were buried or just made to look bad.
> 
> With Spears he hasn't been made to look bad but he has been heavily buried and there is a pretty big difference. You can come back from looking bad but when you literally have your pants pulled down revealing that you wear underwear with another mans face on it and get your ass kicked by a man in his fifties it's hard to come back from. Like it or not wrestling is at it's most successful when taken seriously and as it was pointed out above it's just bad story telling to have a guy from midcard geek who loses quite often to world beater makes no sense.


Having all of your momentum killed by another talent and being made to look like an absolute joke is considered a burial, and most of the people I listed had that done to them at one point, then recovered. Spears had that recently done to him. I mean if you haven't watched wrestling in forever then how would you know the reality of the situation lol? In wrestling, you can almost always recover. And no one is saying that Spears is gonna be a world beater lol. I don't see him being re-built past the TNT Title level personally. And that's more than enough for a midcard guy like Spears.



Chip Chipperson said:


> He has no reason to align with Cody after the beef they've had but this is AEW so yeah, the audience would probably eat that shit up because it's AEW and AEW never do anything wrong.


Exactly lol. If AEW can do nothing wrong to most of their fans, then it's not a problem. Stone Cold had no reason to align with Vince McMahon at WM17 after the beef they had. Shawn Michaels and HHH were feuding for 3 years straight and ended it in a bloody Hell in a Cell match. Then they re-aligned for a DX Reunion in 2006. This is sports entertainment my guy. All of it is bad storytelling in the end.

If you have AEW fans chanting "WWE" at live shows because they are sick and tired of shit storylines, then its a problem. That is what was happening at WWE live shows pre-COVID. If you don't have that happen, then storylines will carry on and fans will love them. History shows that as long as people are being entertained, most of the time they won't give a shit what's being presented to them and will forget past storylines. Your issue is that you're equating your more advanced wrestling mind with the general audience who don't even remember what happened at Double or Nothing.


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## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

How can someone be mad they didnt air the promo on TV? Social media is a powerful tool. That promo may get some people to tune in and see what's happens with Tully, Spears and FTR. That's how you use social media.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

NXT Only said:


> How can someone be mad they didnt air the promo on TV? Social media is a powerful tool. That promo may get some people to tune in and see what's happens with Tully, Spears and FTR. That's how you use social media.


Say it louder


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

NXT Only said:


> How can someone be mad they didnt air the promo on TV? Social media is a powerful tool. That promo may get some people to tune in and see what's happens with Tully, Spears and FTR. That's how you use social media.


Short sighted thinking.

First, AEW is in the television business with social media just offering additional income and a way to hype the TV show. It makes more sense to use social media to hype the fact that Tully is coming or if you want to make him a surprise you can use it to hype up the fact he turned up and promote it as "Can't miss what is happening on Dynamite!". 

Second, as others have pointed out we don't all have Twitter or follow AEW on social media and that shouldn't be something you're forced to do for the TV show to make sense. 

Third, AEW are marks for social media likes and shares. I cringe every time they try to be subtle and tease something.


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## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Love the idea of a Horsemen like stable but I wouldn't have Spears anywhere near it. 

I'd have Cody and FTR then have Tully turn on Spears revealing his new client - Brian Cage 

Appreciate you have to get Cage away from Taz but for me Cage would be great fit into this new Horsemen faction


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Marbar said:


> This may sound stupid but isn't Tessa's contract up this year? Sign her as the 4th member. There's no unwritten law saying the 4th member has to be male. She would make a lot more sense than spears and ties to the original Horseman. If Spears has to be in it until her contract expires she can make an appearance at a pay per view and thats when they turn on him.


That's a good idea.

Cody, FTR and Tessa flanked by Arn and Tully is a powerful group. Filled with people who can actually work as heels.


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## Bland (Feb 16, 2016)

Tessa instead of Shawn as 4th member would work well but I don't know why, something just makes me think Shawn could be a great mid card champion. Tessa w/ her father would be perfect in a horsemen style group and also help elevate the women's title if it's involved in a good story.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

What is there to be hype about a 4 Horseman stable in name only with the most loosest connections to the original group? None of the people suggested for it actually need it, besides Shawn Spears who doesn't deserve it. Nostalgia just for nostalgia is silly. Why not do DX 2020 since HBK and HHH are involved with NXT. Everybody hype about them doing it is really just fanning out over the name, nobody has any real ideas for why it should or needs to happen.




prosperwithdeen said:


> Where are all the people that said Shawn Spears was done and buried? This is how easy it is to build someone back up and use a storyline/promo to get someone back on track. If Spears were to go on an undefeated streak after that Tully promo, no one would question it.


This statement would have some weight, if we hadn't seen this song and dance with Spears multiple other times in AEW already. Spears isn't going to be a thing. Remember when he hit Cody was the chair and they were about to make him a star? Remember when he was search for a tag partner and they were supposedly rebuilding him for the tag division? Remember when he was gambling with MJF winning a bunch of matches, then lost by pin to a figure 4 and got embarrassed by Dustin? 

Spears just doesn't have what it takes to be interesting. Which is why they keep changing gears with him.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Great promo from Tully. Shame it didn’t happen on television. He should have fired Shawn Spears too. Look, Paul Roma wasn’t a Horseman. This reminds me of serious Eric Young after the comedy. It’s just too all over the shop.

The Four Horsemen worked because they were the best four heels in their separate roles. If you wanted to do them in AEW, it’d be Chris Jericho, MJF and FTR. Tully as manager. MAYBE Britt Baker if you wanted to include a woman. That’d be the Inner Circle There’s no room for Shawn Spears. And Cody does not fit at all. And Sammy, Jake Hager, Santana and Ortiz would have to go. Could be good development for Sammy.


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## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

RapShepard said:


> What is there to be hype about a 4 Horseman stable in name only with the most loosest connections to the original group? None of the people suggested for it actually need it, besides Shawn Spears who doesn't deserve it. Nostalgia just for nostalgia is silly. Why not do DX 2020 since HBK and HHH are involved with NXT. Everybody hype about them doing it is really just fanning out over the name, nobody has any real ideas for why it should or needs to happen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nostalgia is a strong thing - you know it. Nostalgia is what drives memories. A lot of people are nostalgic about the Attitude Era, even though it was majority turd-burger, apart from the main events. That's why people are excited (I don't care; but if the group is booked well and also brings interesting dynamics and storylines, then why the fuck not?).


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

optikk sucks said:


> Nostalgia is a strong thing - you know it. Nostalgia is what drives memories. A lot of people are nostalgic about the Attitude Era, even though it was majority turd-burger, apart from the main events. That's why people are excited (I don't care; but if the group is booked well and also brings interesting dynamics and storylines, then why the fuck not?).


This suggestion is more the all-female Ghostbusters nostalgia. If folk want to do a stable fine. But slapping The Four Horseman name for no reason is just ridiculous. It would be one thing if this was a Tiger Mask situation where there's a history of somebody taking up the mantle. But this is just random as fuck and grasping at straws.


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## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

RapShepard said:


> This suggestion is more the all-female Ghostbusters nostalgia. If folk want to do a stable fine. But slapping The Four Horseman name for no reason is just ridiculous. It would be one thing if this was a Tiger Mask situation where there's a history of somebody taking up the mantle. But this is just random as fuck and grasping at straws.


That’s fair enough. We shall see how it plays out. If it’s the 4 plus Arn and Tully playing mentor, then I don’t have anything against it.
also a lot of fans were probably not even alive to witness the OG 4 horseman btw. If they can tastefully use the name, it’ll keep the horseman going through generations. Hand down tha name as time goes on. It becomes a brotherhood. If this happens, it’s a success. The name becomes a legacy. It becomes infamous. When you are part of the dynasty of the horseman, you mean something. Atleast that’s what I hope they do with it.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

prosperwithdeen said:


> Where are all the people that said Shawn Spears was done and buried? This is how easy it is to build someone back up and use a storyline/promo to get someone back on track. If Spears were to go on an undefeated streak after that Tully promo, no one would question it.


Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, WHOA! They absolutely would. The Horsemen were the best of the best. Get Shawn Spears out of there. The most he gets is the final slot on Cody’s babyface team in a match, MAYBE. Because if Cody is going against them, it’d make sense for Dustin to be in there as his brother. Maybe Darby, since they like teasing respect between the two. But then what about babyfaces like Jungle Boy? Wardlow, if MJF joins and they kick him out?

Ugh, this already feels so labored. MJF whacks Shawn Spears with a chair like Shawn did to Cody on the advice of Tully. Shawn feels betrayed, MJF kills him dead on PPV.



NXT Only said:


> How can someone be mad they didnt air the promo on TV? Social media is a powerful tool. That promo may get some people to tune in and see what's happens with Tully, Spears and FTR. That's how you use social media.


AEW fanboys cannot seriously be taking this line of thinking again. The TV show is your bread and butter. Not your fucking Twitter account.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

optikk sucks said:


> That’s fair enough. We shall see how it plays out. If it’s the 4 plus Arn and Tully playing mentor, then I don’t have anything against it.
> also a lot of fans were probably not even alive to witness the OG 4 horseman btw. If they can tastefully use the name, it’ll keep the horseman going through generations. Hand down tha name as time goes on. It becomes a brotherhood. If this happens, it’s a success.


If it happens I predict it goes for a few weeks, then fails like everything else he's tried. But we'll see.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

They shouldn’t do it, by the way. Just present heels in their best light. FTR with Tully is excellent. Shawn can get his partner as a babyface. MJF can be great on his own. He can even interact with FTR. They can be his hired guns at points.

You don’t need to four fingers to make them feel like TNA.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

RapShepard said:


> If it happens I predict it goes for a few weeks, then fails like everything else he's tried. But we'll see.


It actually does feel like he’s throwing everything at a wall hoping that it sticks 💀. Really hope this idea does. I love the idea of the Horsemen becoming a brotherhood


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

optikk sucks said:


> It actually does feel like he’s throwing everything at a wall hoping that it sticks [emoji88]. Really hope this idea does. I love the idea of the Horsemen becoming a brotherhood


My main issue besides not liking stables, is nobody suggested actually needs the stable except Spears. FTR can survive on their own. Cody, Hangman, and MJF can all survive on their own. It would have to be building 4 new stars for me to really be interested.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

RapShepard said:


> My main issue besides not liking stables, is nobody suggested actually needs the stable except Spears. FTR can survive on their own. Cody, Hangman, and MJF can all survive on their own. It would have to be building 4 new stars for me to really be interested.


Not only would they survive on their own, but they’d be better on their own.

I’m fine with FTR being aligned with MJF. Or kicking Santana and Ortiz out of the Inner Circle and joining Jericho. Page and Cody are better off in their current roles though. It’s so weird and forced that they are doing this.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

The Wood said:


> Not only would they survive on their own, but they’d be better on their own.
> 
> I’m fine with FTR being aligned with MJF. Or kicking Santana and Ortiz out of the Inner Circle and joining Jericho. Page and Cody are better off in their current roles though. It’s so weird and forced that they are doing this.


Optic wise they'd fit better in the Inner Circle, but with them being pretty strict I don't think they'd fit as much in this more comedic Inner Circle. But they did say they don't mind comedy I guess lol. 

But yeah this is super forced. It makes sense that Cody wants to honor shit his dad created it or was involved with, but it makes him seem like he doesn't have many idea of his own. Though his shit has been enjoyable for me.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

optikk sucks said:


> Nostalgia is a strong thing - you know it. Nostalgia is what drives memories. A lot of people are nostalgic about the Attitude Era, even though it was majority turd-burger, apart from the main events. That's why people are excited (I don't care; but if the group is booked well and also brings interesting dynamics and storylines, then why the fuck not?).


If this is true why do people shit all over the WWE for bringing back nostalgia acts like Goldberg, Sting and Undertaker but are now cheering AEW on for doing the same thing?



RapShepard said:


> My main issue besides not liking stables, is nobody suggested actually needs the stable except Spears. FTR can survive on their own. Cody, Hangman, and MJF can all survive on their own. It would have to be building 4 new stars for me to really be interested.


Doesn't matter if it doesn't make sense or doesn't help anyone. Cody and his pals want to cosplay as the Horsemen and Cody's going to use his international TV show to do that on.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I kind of get a really bad feeling about it. It's going to feel like Horsemen cosplay. The thing with the Horsemen is that you used to have four guys who could get the fingers over, and with this you're going to have four guys that they hope the fingers get over. It's a huge difference. And I like Cody and FTR. And if it is Shawn Spears in there...eh, he's not the worst wrestler that's ever been on my television set. But they're not Horsemen. It's just not...right. And Arn and Tully hugging is just going to make them huge babyfaces. 

Probably the most creative thing they could do is split the roster into two warring sides. Arn Anderson is general against Tully Blanchard. It all culminates with your four top babyfaces (likely all champions) and the top heels of Blanchard's group. Have them go into War Games -- or All Out War -- and have the guy you want to be the top babyface get the submission from Chris Jericho to end it all. It just doesn't make sense to have all these factions running around and just have The Elite as a five man group, and the Inner Circle as a five man group, and they all hate each other, but some of them are working together. 

Got a weird feeling that it's going to turn into Inner Circle vs. The Elite vs. The Horsemen Revival vs. An MJF Dynasty type group, and it's just going to be a MESS.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

i would definetly be down for a horsemen like group. Cody, FTR, and idk who the 4th would be if i were booking.
MJF-too good to be in a stable, especially when he wouldn't be the top guy in said stable
Hangman-Super face waiting to happen, no need to have him in the group
Dustin-bad fit
Spears-has done absolutely nothing for me since AEW started
Tessa-it could work. idk when her contract runs out, i also wouldn't have her fight dudes. she could be the first horsewoman if im not mistaken

also have to consider the amount of stables right now. Inner circle, Dark order, Elite sometimes, death triangle when they return. too many factions can hurt. i'd let this build for a months until it comes together. inner circle dispands, dark order just needs to go away.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

They should definitely wait until the crowds come back if they're going to try and do that. If that's the case, Pac is a possibility for it I didn't consider.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Chip Chipperson said:


> If this is true why do people shit all over the WWE for bringing back nostalgia acts like Goldberg, Sting and Undertaker but are now cheering AEW on for doing the same thing?
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't matter if it doesn't make sense or doesn't help anyone. Cody and his pals want to cosplay as the Horsemen and Cody's going to use his international TV show to do that on.


actually Goldberg was shown to bring in ratings and PPV buys.

the internet isn’t the majority man. You still haven’t figured that out.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

optikk sucks said:


> actually Goldberg was shown to bring in ratings and PPV buys.
> 
> the internet isn’t the majority man. You still haven’t figured that out.


That doesn't mean they didn't shit on it. They were champing at the bit to boo him into 2017, because they did this thing where they think they know better. It's why we very often can't have nice things.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Chip Chipperson said:


> If this is true why do people shit all over the WWE for bringing back nostalgia acts like Goldberg, Sting and Undertaker but are now cheering AEW on for doing the same thing?


it's not the same at all, Goldberg comes in at 50 something and wins a title? the old guys come in and take the spots of younger talnet. nostalgia can work great, but when it's at the expense of younger, better talent, who have shown they can get over, it's a mistake. 

a newer horsemen group, which i don't even think they can call themselves that, but if they were to just use the name, it would be to get over newer guys. cody, wheeler, hardwood


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

It’s very TNA. Can we all admit that? It reeks of Fourtune. Bobby Roode, AJ Styles, Christopher Daniels and whoever else was in there (James Storm?) were all great talents. It didn’t stop it from reeking.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

alex0816 said:


> it's not the same at all, Goldberg comes in at 50 something and wins a title? the old guys come in and take the spots of younger talnet. nostalgia can work great, but when it's at the expense of younger, better talent, who have shown they can get over, it's a mistake.
> 
> a newer horsemen group, which i don't even think they can call themselves that, but if they were to just use the name, it would be to get over newer guys. cody, wheeler, hardwood


Chris Jericho, Brodie Lee, Lance Archer, and Matt Hardy say hello.

Sammy Guevara, Santana and Ortiz, and even Kenny Omega had to take a backseat to Hardy.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

optikk sucks said:


> actually Goldberg was shown to bring in ratings and PPV buys.
> 
> the internet isn’t the majority man. You still haven’t figured that out.


Yes, I'm aware I'm all for nostalgia. This is you putting words in my mouth again.

The internet fans shit on it though but when it's AEW it's fine.



alex0816 said:


> it's not the same at all, Goldberg comes in at 50 something and wins a title? the old guys come in and take the spots of younger talnet. nostalgia can work great, but when it's at the expense of younger, better talent, who have shown they can get over, it's a mistake.
> 
> a newer horsemen group, which i don't even think they can call themselves that, but if they were to just use the name, it would be to get over newer guys. cody, wheeler, hardwood


As opposed to 49 year old Chris Jericho coming in and winning a World Title? 

The New Horseman will likely feature four guys from the WWE with 2 managers from the WWE using a WWE idea. Seems like it's getting absolutely zero new guys over.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Chip Chipperson said:


> As opposed to 49 year old Chris Jericho coming in and winning a World Title?
> 
> The New Horseman will likely feature four guys from the WWE with 2 managers from the WWE using a WWE idea. Seems like it's getting absolutely zero new guys over.


a 49 year old who can still put on a match for over 5 mins and is helping build the company who was built to win the title over the course of a few months vs a washed 53 year old who can't wrestle over 3 mins before getting out of breath and who nearly killed the Undertaker last year because he couldn't lift him and just showed up and got a title shot and won it over one of the most over acts in the fiend.

and the horsemen are an nwa idea, not wwe. Cody left wwe and reinvented his career and got better, FTR will try to do the same. a group can help all of them and their potential opponents.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yes, I'm aware I'm all for nostalgia. This is you putting words in my mouth again.
> 
> The internet fans shit on it though but when it's AEW it's fine


are you comparing a reused group name to someone who used to wrestle, cane back and took the spotlight from someone else?
very incomparable mate, sorry.


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

Cody should not be in the Horsemen. His Dad was a lifelong thorn in Flairs side. 

If anything Cody should set up a Rhodes dynasty to go against the Horsemen.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

optikk sucks said:


> are you comparing a reused group name to someone who used to wrestle, cane back and took the spotlight from someone else?
> very incomparable mate, sorry.


No, once again you are misunderstanding me deliberately.

I'm saying the AEW fans shit on nostalgia when WWE do it but are cool with it when AEW does it. DDP for example coming in and beating up MJF was considered awesome in this section but WWE has a top heel get beat up by a 60 year old and those same people would shit on it.

Reforming The Horsemen just shows the lack of creativity in the AEW writing team.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Chip Chipperson said:


> No, once again you are misunderstanding me deliberately.
> 
> I'm saying the AEW fans shit on nostalgia when WWE do it but are cool with it when AEW does it. DDP for example coming in and beating up MJF was considered awesome in this section but WWE has a top heel get beat up by a 60 year old and those same people would shit on it.
> 
> Reforming The Horsemen just shows the lack of creativity in the AEW writing team.


The horseman 99% has always been Cody’s wish btw. He clearly has had certain things he wanted in AEW.

Uh I didn’t enjoy DDP beating up MJF. And where did that come from? We are talking about the use of the four horsemen tag. Way to go off topic man. Rapshep and I were discussing nostalgia and you come along with “bUt WWE dO iT aNd iT gEtS pAnNeD”. Be careful; you’re coming off a bit of a WWE superfanboy now. I’m sure you’re not. 

WWE and AEW fans are different groups, if you weren't aware of that. WWE fans who complain about that may not necessarily be the same fans who enjoy the nostalgia in AEW. Does that shock you?


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

Bullet Club was literally an NWO/DX hybrid and was the biggest thing in pro wrestling for YEARS.

Give this a chance. But as someone said this has to be a long term thing. Can’t just go a few months or a couple years. These guys need to ride this out. They need to be a family.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yes, I'm aware I'm all for nostalgia. This is you putting words in my mouth again.
> 
> The internet fans shit on it though but when it's AEW it's fine.
> 
> ...


Lol WWE didn’t come up with the Horsemen.


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

TKO Wrestling said:


> Lol WWE didn’t come up with the Horsemen.


Boom


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

TKO Wrestling said:


> Lol WWE didn’t come up with the Horsemen.


Didn't come up with them so maybe idea was the wrong word to use but they certainly own all of it's history now. AEW can't go out on TV and tell it's admittedly younger audience who the Horsemen are or what they mean with video clips or footage instead they'll have to rely on whatever photos they can find and the words of the guys involved.

If it makes you feel better allow me to rephrase:

The New Horsemen will likely feature four guys from the WWE with 2 managers from the WWE using an NWA/WCW idea. Seems like it's getting absolutely zero new guys over.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Didn't come up with them so maybe idea was the wrong word to use but they certainly own all of it's history now. AEW can't go out on TV and tell it's admittedly younger audience who the Horsemen are or what they mean with video clips or footage instead they'll have to rely on whatever photos they can find and the words of the guys involved.
> 
> If it makes you feel better allow me to rephrase:
> 
> The New Horsemen will likely feature four guys from the WWE with 2 managers from the WWE using an NWA/WCW idea. *Seems like it's getting absolutely zero new guys over.*


I’d want some assurances that they had an angle of using the horsemen to create stars. If you’re going to do an idea like that, you have to maintain psychology and start doing everything a heel is supposed to do in putting the shine on the babyfaces, and if/when working face, making the heels look pure badass, evil.

Being in the Horsemen with an already built-in fan following given the WWE history of all 3 performers, then you can’t make this faction about you. It needs to be about those around you. It needs to have a greater purpose. No Matt Hardy, “Oh hey, I need you to pretend to believe in my ability to legiitimately teleport and change clothes and put up video game screens that you can actually see, because I need to remain relevant!”

Do the faction knowing you’re already over and people know who you are. There is no building Cody or FTR up much larger than they already are, but they can put that larger audience onto guys less known by US audiences.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

bdon said:


> I’d want some assurances that they had an angle of using the horsemen to create stars. If you’re going to do an idea like that, you have to maintain psychology and start doing everything a heel is supposed to do in putting the shine on the babyfaces, and if/when working face, making the heels look pure badass, evil.
> 
> Being in the Horsemen with an already built-in fan following given the WWE history of all 3 performers, then you can’t make this faction about you. It needs to be about those around you. It needs to have a greater purpose. No Matt Hardy, “Oh hey, I need you to pretend to believe in my ability to legiitimately teleport and change clothes and put up video game screens that you can actually see, because I need to remain relevant!”
> 
> Do the faction knowing you’re already over and people know who you are. There is no building Cody or FTR up much larger than they already are, but they can put that larger audience onto guys less known by US audiences.


Yeah but who is going to boo a hall of fame stable and cheer on the young guys? Seems like a way for Cody and his buddies to cosplay as the Horsemen on TV and I highly doubt they'll put anyone over that strongly and really apart from Jungle Boy and to a lesser extent Luchasaurus which babyfaces are really ready for it anyway?


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah but who is going to boo a hall of fame stable and cheer on the young guys? Seems like a way for Cody and his buddies to cosplay as the Horsemen on TV and I highly doubt they'll put anyone over that strongly and really apart from Jungle Boy and to a lesser extent Luchasaurus which babyfaces are really ready for it anyway?


Well, that’s what I’m thinking, and why I have soured on the idea. It only leads to a burial of the faces and heels, because they enter the boring as hell grey area of “Cool tweener” where neither the baby faces or heels have a way of getting more over than the faction itself.

If you’re going to do it, do it ONLY to make it about the others. Not yourselves.


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

I don't think video packages are as valuable and necessary as they once were. They could simply say "Don't know the history of who we are? Google it. Google Arn Anderson. Google Tully Blanchard. Google Ole Anderson, JJ DIllon, Barry Windham " and the search would result in endless youtube vids. AEW doesn't need to own that footage. 

Sure WWE could rush to take the vids down, but it would be a losing battle.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Chip Chipperson said:


> If this is true why do people shit all over the WWE for bringing back nostalgia acts like Goldberg, Sting and Undertaker but are now cheering AEW on for doing the same thing?


Undertaker has been having stinkers In the ring because of his old age so and people don’t want to remember him that way. Goldberg buried The Fiend and Kevin Owens, then left 30 days later on both occasions. No one was complaining about Sting. They actually complained about him losing to Triple H, which should have never happened. All of those are drastically different than bringing back legends to be mouthpieces or stealing the horsemen angle when it’s not needed.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I don't think video packages are as valuable and necessary as they once were. They could simply say "Don't know the history of who we are? Google it. Google Arn Anderson. Google Tully Blanchard. Google Ole Anderson, JJ DIllon, Barry Windham " and the search would result in endless youtube vids. AEW doesn't need to own that footage.
> 
> Sure WWE could rush to take the vids down, but it would be a losing battle.


Who is going to take the time to Google and learn about The Horsemen? Personally I am all for it and love to sit down with an article and just have a good read but the majority of people today don't want to read their text messages let alone all that history of a wrestling group. 

It's kind of like when TNA tried to reform The Horsemen, they couldn't use the name (Allegedly AEW can?) and they didn't have the footage so pretty much all they had was some guys with no links to the original group (Apart from Flair) cosplaying as The Horsemen



prosperwithdeen said:


> Undertaker has been having stinkers In the ring because of his old age so and people don’t want to remember him that way. Goldberg buried The Fiend and Kevin Owens, then left 30 days later on both occasions. No one was complaining about Sting. They actually complained about him losing to Triple H, which should have never happened. All of those are drastically different than bringing back legends to be mouthpieces or stealing the horsemen angle when it’s not needed.


I'll only comment on Taker but from what I've seen (Mostly highlights admittedly) he hasn't looked that bad after getting that surgery shown in the WWE documentary about him.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

This thread is so funny

I started it to share my hype about a potential 4HM stable forming - mainly as I never got to see any run with any of them - and wanted to hear some Hype from others in the same boat.

and subsequently 90% of the peeps have acted like the Aunt who explains loudly at the Birthday party to the Birthday boy why a Vegan cake would have been better than a chocolate cake

and then pulling out graphs, photos and videos to explain the torture animals go through to make the chocolate cake.

 - You never disappoint WF / exactly as expected


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> This thread is so funny
> 
> I started it to share my hype about a potential 4HM stable forming - mainly as I never got to see any run with any of them - and wanted to hear some Hype from others in the same boat.
> 
> ...


Well, with all due respect when you open up a thread you have to take the good and the bad. My Cornette thread has many people loudly stomping their feet talking about how much he sucks but I had to roll with the punches.

I'm happy that you're excited about The Horsemen returning but would like to point out that you're not going to really be seeing the Horsemen now anyway. Sure, Arn and Tully as senior citizens are involved in the group as managers or advisers but Cody, The Revival and Shawn F'n Spears never had anything to do with The Horsemen. The closest any of them come is that when Cody was still in nappies (Diapers to the American folk) his dad was doing battle with them.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Well, with all due respect when you open up a thread you have to take the good and the bad. My Cornette thread has many people loudly stomping their feet talking about how much he sucks but I had to roll with the punches.
> 
> I'm happy that you're excited about The Horsemen returning but would like to point out that you're not going to really be seeing the Horsemen now anyway. Sure, Arn and Tully as senior citizens are involved in the group as managers or advisers but Cody, The Revival and Shawn F'n Spears never had anything to do with The Horsemen. The closest any of them come is that when Cody was still in nappies (Diapers to the American folk) his dad was doing battle with them.


Oh, I don’t mind it

it is just an interesting observation about the forum - hard to let people just be hype on here for something

but I don’t mind it at all


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> This thread is so funny
> 
> I started it to share my hype about a potential 4HM stable forming - mainly as I never got to see any run with any of them - and wanted to hear some Hype from others in the same boat.
> 
> ...


the "karens" of pro-wrestling

anyway should be a good storyline. looking forward to them pushing it. should become a dynasty


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'll only comment on Taker but from what I've seen (Mostly highlights admittedly) he hasn't looked that bad after getting that surgery shown in the WWE documentary about him.


If you want a good laugh, here are highlights from the Taker/Goldberg match. This video explains why people are complaining about Taker these days. He needs to hang them up.

-Taker almost kills Goldberg with the 1st tombstone
-Goldberg almost kills Taker and nearly breaks his neck with the first jackhammer
-Goldberg fell over after the 2nd tombstone attempt
-Taker botches the chokeslam to end it
-Taker's reaction at the end lol


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

prosperwithdeen said:


> If you want a good laugh, here are highlights from the Taker/Goldberg match. This video explains why people are complaining about Taker these days. He needs to hang them up.
> 
> -Taker almost kills Goldberg with the 1st tombstone
> -Goldberg almost kills Taker and nearly breaks his neck with the first jackhammer
> ...


Yeah, admittedly pretty bad. I think it's best to pair Taker up with someone who is smaller and easier to lift plus is a good enough worker to carry him. Goldberg isn't that guy.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

prosperwithdeen said:


> If you want a good laugh, here are highlights from the Taker/Goldberg match. This video explains why people are complaining about Taker these days. He needs to hang them up.
> 
> -Taker almost kills Goldberg with the 1st tombstone
> -Goldberg almost kills Taker and nearly breaks his neck with the first jackhammer
> ...


this is apparently the same as using a group name

jesus christ

WWE superfans these days


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

optikk sucks said:


> this is apparently the same as using a group name
> 
> jesus christ
> 
> WWE superfans these days


That's not what was said. You are assuming or fabricating things all I ever said was that WWE is given shit for using nostalgia and AEW always gets a pass. Personally I like nostalgia so I'm cool with it from both companies but lets take a look at the nostalgia factors AEW uses.

- WWE Hall Of Famers such as Jake Roberts, Arn Anderson and Tully Blanchard are on TV most weeks despite the fact that you could likely find younger managers who would come in and do solid jobs as well.

- WWE Hall Of Famer on the announce team in an attempt to try and get people to go "Oh shit, JR! I remember him!"

- Chris Jericho as a top level star who is mostly remembered for how good he used to be as opposed to how good he is now in 2020.

- Guest appearances from the likes of Bret Hart and Diamond Dallas Page in the past. DDP got the better of top heel MJF and MJF could only manage to pin the job guy not either nostalgia act out of DDP and Dustin Rhodes.

- Mike Tyson

- The segment last week with Chris Jericho and Mike Tyson which was almost a complete knock off of the 1998 RAW segment where the exact same thing happened. Don't forget the "Hey, remember when?" mention when Jericho said he was mad about what happened a decade prior.

- Now attempting to reunite The Four Horsemen who last existed in 1999.

- A segment parodying The Brady Bunch which went off the air in 1974.

- The video package of the 30-40 people punching the camera in The Inner Circle segment was nostalgia galore.

- Additional mention is Matt Hardy now implementing throwbacks as part of the gimmick. AEW's last PPV main event featured a nostalgic throwback to a WWE midcard angle in 2003 (Matt facts)

Again, as I said I'm all for nostalgia but lets not pretend both companies aren't super into the idea of it. The only difference is that WWE puts their nostalgia acts in the ring and AEW doesn't really have anyone (Except DDP) who is a legend and actually wrestled for them. Guarantee if Goldberg came off contract and AEW managed to land his signature he'd be out there botching moves on TNT as well.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Any marketer worth their salt will tell you ‘nostalgia sells’

when i was doing digital record label deals, we would license the new Britney Spears for millions, but it would always be outsold by an old Queen or ABBA song.

same when we did games - any new game on phones were left in the dust when we licensed Street Fighter 2 - at that point 15 years old maybe?

the challenge is harnessing that power correctly. Letting 2 guys at 60 fight a singles alone in the ring, not the best way

have 1x 60 year old surrounded by 3x 30yr olds that can bump and carry the match = correct

same as handing down legacies. We all could dream about seeing Arn v Jake - but it would be a catastrophe as they are currently - but them handing their legacies down and setting up the next generation with their credibility = the correct way

i always wondered why WWE never did this / we should have had the next Macho Man by now, Undertaker, Sting, Bret and so on and so on - with these guys playing manager

that is why i am glad AEW seems to be doing it correct / have legends involved in manager positions, groom younger guys to take that spot and give them credibility


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> This thread is so funny
> 
> I started it to share my hype about a potential 4HM stable forming - mainly as I never got to see any run with any of them - and wanted to hear some Hype from others in the same boat.
> 
> ...


I was all for it, but in discussing it, I’m far more hesitant about it now. I don’t trust Cody to stick with it long term, and I certainly don’t trust him to use it as a springboard storytelling device to make others look great the way Flair did.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

bdon said:


> I was all for it, but in discussing it, I’m far more hesitant about it now. I don’t trust Cody to stick with it long term, and I certainly don’t trust him to use it as a springboard storytelling device to make others look great the way Flair did.


Did Cody hurt you in some way lol

I feel bad that you hold such a personal grudge against the man


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

optikk sucks said:


> Did Cody hurt you in some way lol
> 
> I feel bad that you hold such a personal grudge against the man


I believe in the stars making stars. Cody leaves every feud making his opposite look worse, and him coming away looking better. Even in defeat.

If anyone needs your sympathy, it’s the Roller Codester. Might want to ask him if Vince and Hunter touched him inappropriately, help him let go of whatever pain they caused.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

bdon said:


> I believe in the stars making stars. Cody leaves every feud making his opposite look worse, and him coming away looking better. Even in defeat.
> 
> If anyone needs your sympathy, it’s the Roller Codester. Might want to ask him if Vince and Hunter touched him inappropriately, help him let go of whatever pain they caused.


I dunno, MIJF looking like a star
I take Janella more seriously as a competitor after his match with Cody


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

MJF who couldn’t get on TV for 8 weeks? That MJF?

Janella being taken serious. I’m done with the convo. We won’t see eye to eye on this.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

bdon said:


> MJF who couldn’t get on TV for 8 weeks? That MJF?
> 
> Janella being taken serious. I’m done with the convo. We won’t see eye to eye on this.


You say that as if they kept MJF off TV purposefully.

Surely, you're not as stupid as you make out?


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Surely you don’t think he or Hangman couldn’t have one or two vignettes from home placed on Dynamite. You know, like the one MJF did a week or two before returning? Surely you can’t be as stupid as you make out?

Would have done more to build that PPV vs half-assing it.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

optikk sucks said:


> I dunno, MIJF looking like a star
> I take Janella more seriously as a competitor after his match with Cody


Cody put Darby Allin on the map.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Bdon loves psycho-analysing Cody 

its a hobby of his I’ve decided to just accept


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

And he made Darby look stupid in their last match. Didn’t try to act like he rolled him up or anything. Just laid there. Darby is too stupid to know his own shoulders are down, or that his opponent is laying on his side.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Cody is such a gracious performer, always making sure his opponents walk away in a better place and than they were prior. 

There. Should that be how I post going forward?


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

whats with some of the Cody hate on here? cause he's a VP and is put into big fueds? people act like he's HHH from 02-09 lol.

Cody is maybe the most over guy in the company, you don't think MJF benefitted from their fued? Archer? making Darby look legit despite not getting a win on him yet(it will come though) 

dude left millions of dollars form wwe to reinvent his craft and he did a great fucking job, dude can put himselft over once in a while if he wants to in my eyes.


----------



## Zapato (Jun 7, 2015)

Once in a while, are we watching the same shows?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> Cody is such a gracious performer, always making sure his opponents walk away in a better place and than they were prior.
> 
> There. Should that be how I post going forward?


you do you mate


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

bdon said:


> Surely you don’t think he or Hangman couldn’t have one or two vignettes from home placed on Dynamite. You know, like the one MJF did a week or two before returning? Surely you can’t be as stupid as you make out?
> 
> Would have done more to build that PPV vs half-assing it.


Or maybe they wanted to focus on those who WERE available?

MJF is unbeaten in 2020 and their most protected guy on the roster not named Moxley - the fact you even question whether or not he looks like a star is stupid. But then again, I am not surprised.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

optikk sucks said:


> are you comparing a reused group name to someone who used to wrestle, cane back and took the spotlight from someone else?
> very incomparable mate, sorry.


What kind of angle is this? That’s obviously not what Chip was talking about. He was pointing out that internet fans will mock a 50-something mega-star coming back when WWE does it, but AEW hitches itself to. 49-year-old kinda-big-star and loves it. Goldberg actually makes a difference to business. Jericho may have been the best choice for an upstart, but let’s not pretend that the two are worlds apart.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Just so we’re all keeping score - the Black glove Tully gave to Spears is another 4HM tease

Windham used to wear it


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah but who is going to boo a hall of fame stable and cheer on the young guys? Seems like a way for Cody and his buddies to cosplay as the Horsemen on TV and I highly doubt they'll put anyone over that strongly and really apart from Jungle Boy and to a lesser extent Luchasaurus which babyfaces are really ready for it anyway?


This is the big issue. It won’t feel authentic. It’ll be the Bullet Club nWo except the Horsemen version. And it will feel like admittedly talented guys playing dress-up. There’s no organic reason for this stable. Not one that’s evident, anyway.

And I thought it was pretty obvious you weren’t suggesting that the Horsemen were invented by the WWE, as if that were the point, but rather that knockoff Horsemen stables are the jam of promotions outside the NWA/WCW. To the WWE’s actual credit, they never did the Horsemen. But they did do Evolution. And then even things like League of Nations. They put four heels together when it suits them and hope it gels in the same borrowed way.


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

This is all leading up to the Hogan turn with Cody. The throne break, to the Hogan turn, to putting himself leader of a new Horsemen faction - seeing he got away with the HHH stuff he's upped the ante and now wants to be an amalgam of Hogan and Flair. He's creating an New World Order Horsemen.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

alex0816 said:


> whats with some of the Cody hate on here? cause he's a VP and is put into big fueds? people act like he's HHH from 02-09 lol.
> 
> Cody is maybe the most over guy in the company, you don't think MJF benefitted from their fued? Archer? making Darby look legit despite not getting a win on him yet(it will come though)
> 
> dude left millions of dollars form wwe to reinvent his craft and he did a great fucking job, dude can put himselft over once in a while if he wants to in my eyes.


Its primarily just one guy that's really loud about his Cody hate


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

This is a real good listen


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1268623373996683266


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

the_flock said:


> Cody should not be in the Horsemen. His Dad was a lifelong thorn in Flairs side.
> 
> If anything Cody should set up a Rhodes dynasty to go against the Horsemen.


Look at Cody though, he wants to be Flair. He already has the entourage. I see him turning with Dustin being pissed off about it, saying he is betraying their dad's memory. The thing writes itself. The only issue would be that MJF could not be in it cause he stabbed Cody in the back.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

BTW Adam Page should steal Shawn Spears' glove. It would be better on him.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Wolf Mark said:


> BTW Adam Page should steal Shawn Spears' glove. It would be better on him.


Nah, Adam is geared to be their biggest babyface in all of this


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Tully absolutely has to swerve us here and turn on Spears. They really didn't need to bury him to build him back up again, that was a joke and worse than anything WWE has done to humiliate anyone in a while. Spears is done after that though. You can't build a Horsemen group involving him. Which is unfortunate because The Chairman would have been a good fit.

MJF, Dax, Cash and Hangman would be perfect. Although I would much prefer Hangman to be on his own for a while. Dude is money and needs to be on his own. Wardlow could be the big man, but someone like Hammerstone has the history with MJF and would also be perfect. 

In saying that, I'd completely change the Inner Circle to be Jericho, Hammerstone, Sammy and The Von Erichs if I could. They're just a very odd stable. Santana could be huge but is being held back by Ortiz.


----------



## The Masked Avenger (Apr 18, 2018)

I would love Page in the Horsemen however he's not going to be one. He might end up playing the Dusty role in the Horseman story, the constant thorn in their side.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Any marketer worth their salt will tell you ‘nostalgia sells’
> 
> when i was doing digital record label deals, we would license the new Britney Spears for millions, but it would always be outsold by an old Queen or ABBA song.
> 
> ...


I think it's because some folk feel like it's too forced. Charlotte is Ric's literal daughter and look at all the backlash she gets online. Now imagine if they had Taker hanging around early Bray. It's just asking for "shoved down my throat" and "he'll never live up to" type feelings. Hell Flair has failed everytime he's had a protege and I think it's mostly because he's too big of a name. 

For Tully, Arn, and Jake it's not like any of they're actually uplifting their client. Though seeing them as a manager is less jarring, because despite being legends. We all know they were never actually the guy.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Cult03 said:


> Tully absolutely has to swerve us here and turn on Spears. They really didn't need to bury him to build him back up again, that was a joke and worse than anything WWE has done to humiliate anyone in a while. Spears is done after that though. You can't build a Horsemen group involving him. Which is unfortunate because The Chairman would have been a good fit.
> 
> MJF, Dax, Cash and Hangman would be perfect. Although I would much prefer Hangman to be on his own for a while. Dude is money and needs to be on his own. Wardlow could be the big man, but someone like Hammerstone has the history with MJF and would also be perfect.
> 
> In saying that, I'd completely change the Inner Circle to be Jericho, Hammerstone, Sammy and The Von Erichs if I could. They're just a very odd stable. Santana could be huge but is being held back by Ortiz.


At first i assumed Tully has been building to turn on Shawn but the way Shawn has been responding im confused now. The thing is with out Tully they need to just let Shawn go because he needs someone to wake his ass up and utilize what people are pushing him to bring out.


----------



## go stros (Feb 16, 2020)

More like horse shit. At least try to be original.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

I dont think they need to pretend to be the horsemen at all. No reason why you say couldnt have 4 people in a group managed by the old guys and they just have their own style. Like exampe lets say the group is FTR it could be the tag team and 2 other guys added to the group plus the old guys managing. It would be more of a tribute to the horsemen but not be like them.

I dont know just a random thought lol


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Nah, Adam is geared to be their biggest babyface in all of this


Just talking about the glove. lol Hell have him stole it from Spears.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

Cult03 said:


> Tully absolutely has to swerve us here and turn on Spears. They really didn't need to bury him to build him back up again, that was a joke and worse than anything WWE has done to humiliate anyone in a while. Spears is done after that though. You can't build a Horsemen group involving him. Which is unfortunate because The Chairman would have been a good fit.
> 
> MJF, Dax, Cash and Hangman would be perfect. Although I would much prefer Hangman to be on his own for a while. Dude is money and needs to be on his own. Wardlow could be the big man, but someone like Hammerstone has the history with MJF and would also be perfect.
> 
> In saying that, I'd completely change the Inner Circle to be Jericho, Hammerstone, Sammy and The Von Erichs if I could. They're just a very odd stable. Santana could be huge but is being held back by Ortiz.


Damn Hammerstone! That's it. Either with another group or the re-Horsemen, that would be the ingredient to take a group to another level. That guy is fucking money. That has to happen.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Wolf Mark said:


> Damn Hammerstone! That's it. Either with another group or the re-Horsemen, that would be the ingredient to take a group to another level. That guy is fucking money. That has to happen.


hammerstone signed 2 years with MLW last week


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> hammerstone signed 2 years with MLW last week


In retrospect it's a good decision considering the horrendous product in the WWE in the last few years and AEW has a stacked roster and he may be lost in the place. AEW has already too many guys they don't know what to do with and others they have to take care of. Brodie Lee and Archer have just ended their feuds, Brian Cage just showed up so it's another main event talent and probably Rusev coming in soon. We were talking about heel groups but if Hammerstone would come on his own just now, I have no idea what he would do.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

shandcraig said:


> I dont think they need to pretend to be the horsemen at all. No reason why you say couldnt have 4 people in a group managed by the old guys and they just have their own style. Like exampe lets say the group is FTR it could be the tag team and 2 other guys added to the group plus the old guys managing. It would be more of a tribute to the horsemen but not be like them.
> 
> I dont know just a random thought lol


Impossible to have Tully and Arn interacting with the group and people not immediately think of the horsemen.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

RapShepard said:


> Impossible to have Tully and Arn interacting with the group and people not immediately think of the horsemen.


Agree with that.I mean it dont need to be an exact reenactment. Sure some tributes to it but they can just act the way they want and do the fuck the rest gimmick.


----------



## Jet_420 (Oct 22, 2019)

NXT Only said:


> How can someone be mad they didnt air the promo on TV? Social media is a powerful tool. That promo may get some people to tune in and see what's happens with Tully, Spears and FTR. That's how you use social media.


I don't know where people are getting that this promo wasn't aired on tv, cause it was shown on tv it was edited a bit. But it was shown on tv it was after the commercial break after the tag title match. You had Tony S even point out earlier this week on social media we heard from Tully who gave an emotional charged peep talk to his protege. And it showed him speaking on "what do you want your legacy to be, you want championship belts for your kid to hold up."


----------



## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

RapShepard said:


> I think it's because some folk feel like it's too forced. Charlotte is Ric's literal daughter and look at all the backlash she gets online. *Now imagine if they had Taker hanging around early Bray*. It's just asking for "shoved down my throat" and "he'll never live up to" type feelings. Hell Flair has failed everytime he's had a protege and I think it's mostly because he's too big of a name.
> 
> For Tully, Arn, and Jake it's not like any of they're actually uplifting their client. Though seeing them as a manager is less jarring, because despite being legends. We all know they were never actually the guy.


They tried to make Wyatt the next Undertaker and failed miserably. "New face of fear" which was a joke, because there´s nothing scary about a fat guy doing a crab walk. In any comparison to Undertaker, Wyatt came up short. The next Mankind though. that might have worked.. It´s not enough to just have a legend and throw him in with any random wrestler, they have to fit together thematically and physically. Like you mentioned, Flair was a lousy manager every time, because somehow he always stole the spotlight, which wasn´t the idea. It´s not so much because he´s too big a name, it´s more because of his personality. If Flair should be paired with anyone in AEW (which is never gonna happen), it should be with someone like MJF or Sammy Guevarra, they have the personality to fit Flair. But even that pairing will fail, because neither of them needs a manager. 

Tully and Arn? I don´t mind them as managers, they don´t do much anyway, but Roberts with Archer -That´s almost a fail, because Roberts is way more interesting than Archer, and a big muscular guy like Archer is never going to master the mindgames like Roberts did.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> hammerstone signed 2 years with MLW last week


The Horsemen doesn't need to happen any time soon. AEW are cruising through their story lines very quickly, so I hope they don't do anything Horsemen related for a while.


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

go stros said:


> More like horse shit. At least try to be original.


Not many original ideas left in wrestling honestly.

Any super faction will be deemed NWO(Bullet Club)

Any cool faction taking over with the crowd behind them will be DX(Undisputed Era)

Velveteen Dream is Goldust

Cody is Ric Flair

The Bucks are the Hardy's

MJF is the Miz

Any new idea is shit on mostly. 

You can probably find a comparison to anything these days from the old days if you look hard enough.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

NXT Only said:


> Not many original ideas left in wrestling honestly.
> 
> Any super faction will be deemed NWO(Bullet Club)
> 
> ...


Bullet Club are compared to NWO and DX because they stole their hand sign, suck it pose and had similar shirts lol. The rest of these comparisons are bullshit. This reasoning is why wrestling is in a hole. Nobody is trying anymore because Kayfabe is dead and nothing is original. Absolute pure laziness.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

NXT Only said:


> Not many original ideas left in wrestling honestly.
> 
> Any super faction will be deemed NWO(Bullet Club)
> 
> ...


_cough_ Kenny Omega matches _cough_


----------



## Bloody Warpath (Jan 6, 2020)

bdon said:


> _cough_ Kenny Omega matches _cough_


There is a reason why no one copies that.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

I think the simplest thing to do would be for FTR to run out one week and bash Spears over a head, ala what Spears did to Cody. Tully becomes manager of FTR. Spears is pissed off so he goes searching for a tag team partner to take them on. Austin Gunn? It might be bland, but the idea would be to put FTR over strong. Turn SCU heel after you've burnt through all the babyface matches with them left (one with FTR first) and then you've got FTR and SCU as your top two star heel teams. Have Jericho kick Santana & Ortiz out of The Inner Circle in favor of FTR & Tully. Then you've got Santana & Ortiz as pissed off outcasts looking for revenge. 

Keep Omega & Page together for the meantime. You've also got The Young Bucks as a star team (whether or not you like their work). That's really all you need for a division. You've got Private Party there to get led through matches by the heel teams. You can get rid of Chuck Taylor and get a new partner for Beretta (or just push him as a single). But really, you only need to those star teams for quite a while. You've also got the chance to cycle in Cody & Dustin as the babyface brother team, as well as Jericho & Guevara as heels in the same part-time role. 

Faces:


Kenny Omega & Adam Page
The Young Bucks
Santana & Ortiz
Cody & Dustin Rhodes (part-time)
Gunn & Spears (underneath)
Private Party (underneath)

Heels: 


FTR
SCU
Jericho & Guevara (part-time)
Butcher & Blade (underneath)

Okay, so that's way more babyface teams than heels, but your underneath teams really aren't going to count. The division would be anchored by FTR and SCU.


----------



## Mister Sinister (Aug 7, 2013)

Tully, Spears, FTR and Tessa as the Four Horsemen (if they can use the name).


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

Cult03 said:


> Bullet Club are compared to NWO and DX because they stole their hand sign, suck it pose and had similar shirts lol. The rest of these comparisons are bullshit. This reasoning is why wrestling is in a hole. Nobody is trying anymore because Kayfabe is dead and nothing is original. Absolute pure laziness.


True. Kayfabe being killed was the final straw.
As for trying, I think companies are but again we as fans know too much. Instead of just spending two hours a week watching we have way too much information.

You even see it in Hollywood With originality.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Its happening


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1270016649714978822


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Its happening
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1270016649714978822


They're gonna rush the Cody heel turn lol. AEW rushes a helluva lot of angles that is one thing that I will have to detract from them. The Horsemen angle doesn't need to happen anytime before next summer. But who knows, maybe this is planned for down the line and not in the next 5-6 months.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

prosperwithdeen said:


> They're gonna rush the Cody heel turn lol. AEW rushes a helluva lot of angles that is one thing that I will have to detract from them. The Horsemen angle doesn't need to happen anytime before next summer. But who knows, maybe this is planned for down the line and not in the next 5-6 months.


They've been teasing a Cody heel turn for about 3 months. 

How long is a tease until it's no longer rushed?


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Erik. said:


> They've been teasing a Cody heel turn for about 3 months.
> 
> How long is a tease until it's no longer rushed?


I don't really want Cody turning heel until January/February at the earliest. His teases are not hard teases, they're under the line subtle teases and most viewers can't see what we see. He still comes off as a mega babyface for the most part right now, especially after being triumphant against Archer and Jake who were as heel as heel can get. If Cody turns now, then that lowers the chances of Hangman or Omega turning, which I think is more important. If Cody AND Omega/Hangman turn, then one will outshine the other seeing as their both mega-stars in AEW. Let Omega turn now, take over the main event scene, and save the Cody turn for next year. That's what I would do.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

prosperwithdeen said:


> I don't really want Cody turning heel until January/February at the earliest. His teases are not hard teases, they're under the line subtle teases and most viewers can't see what we see. He still comes off as a mega babyface for the most part right now, especially after being triumphant against Archer and Jake who were as heel as heel can get. If Cody turns now, then that lowers the chances of Hangman or Omega turning, which I think is more important. If Cody AND Omega/Hangman turn, then one will outshine the other seeing as their both mega-stars in AEW. Let Omega turn now, take over the main event scene, and save the Cody turn for next year. That's what I would do.


I think the impact will be better with an audience sure and I definitely think they can keep peddling what we're getting right now. The cockiness of his promos, the reward of that title getting to his head, his open challenges seemingly being underdog faces that he beats up and then gloats in front of them afterwards, all whilst sort of himself not knowing he is being a dickish heel, it's just who he is and it's starting to come out etc.

I think when it's all said and done, people could put together a compilation of Cody from start to finish and it'll piece together as a pretty great story.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

prosperwithdeen said:


> I don't really want Cody turning heel until January/February at the earliest. His teases are not hard teases, they're under the line subtle teases and most viewers can't see what we see. He still comes off as a mega babyface for the most part right now, especially after being triumphant against Archer and Jake who were as heel as heel can get. If Cody turns now, then that lowers the chances of Hangman or Omega turning, which I think is more important. If Cody AND Omega/Hangman turn, then one will outshine the other seeing as their both mega-stars in AEW. Let Omega turn now, take over the main event scene, and save the Cody turn for next year. That's what I would do.


totally agree. also we shouldn't have this Cody, FTR, and who ever else faction, if thats where they are going, until the Inner circle disbands. so January/Febuary seems like a good time

also random thought, would a Cody heel turn justify MJF and make him a face? could it work? lol


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

alex0816 said:


> totally agree. also we shouldn't have this Cody, FTR, and who ever else faction, if thats where they are going, until the Inner circle disbands. so January/Febuary seems like a good time
> 
> also random thought, would a Cody heel turn justify MJF and make him a face? could it work? lol


Nah, it just takes a heel to know a heel.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Erik. said:


> I think the impact will be better with an audience sure and I definitely think they can keep peddling what we're getting right now. The cockiness of his promos, the reward of that title getting to his head, his open challenges seemingly being underdog faces that he beats up and then gloats in front of them afterwards, all whilst sort of himself not knowing he is being a dickish heel, it's just who he is and it's starting to come out etc.
> 
> I think when it's all said and done, people could put together a compilation of Cody from start to finish and it'll piece together as a pretty great story.


Yeah it'll come off so much better. Omega or Hangman turning now and taking over the show would be awesome. Plus, Cody needs to take a little bit of a step back as far as major singles storylines now that everyone is back on the show. The next major singles storylines need to go to Omega/Hangman and MJF/Mox. Cody's turn can be more a slow burn for the rest of the year, then early next year pull the trigger. 



alex0816 said:


> totally agree. also we shouldn't have this Cody, FTR, and who ever else faction, if thats where they are going, until the Inner circle disbands. so January/Febuary seems like a good time
> 
> also random thought, would a Cody heel turn justify MJF and make him a face? could it work? lol


I think MJF still talks shit about Cody even when he turns lol, it'll just be a case of MJF saying "I told you so!" but it won't make him a good guy.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Neither Omega or Hangman should turn

both of them vs Cody is money programs IMO

Cody is ripe for it / turn while you’re on top - the impact is higher


----------



## qntntgood (Mar 12, 2010)

Geeee said:


> Not the Horsemen without Flair. If this is a stable, they should use a different name


I'll say it again mjf is the next ric flair.


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Its happening
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1270016649714978822


Dax being too overt is strange. Especially if they're really on a short term handshake deal. 

This will need Spears/FTR vs Omega/Bucks match to get the Cody turn payoff. And I don't think you can do that in front of an empty arena.

Have Hangman peeled out to feud with Brodie/Dark Order and have Cody focused on TNT Title and thus mostly separate. FTR and Spears attacking Bucks and decimating them. Omega makes save but numbers still too much. A few faces try to make the save - Jungle Jack and Private Party to no avail. 

A camera cuts to the back and Hangman has been laid out and refs, docs and Cody there looking on asking what happened and who did this - was it Brodie and DO? Staffer runs up to Cody to tell him what is going on in the ring. Cody runs off. 

Cody finally comes out surveys the scene goes backstage again and comes out with his sledgehammer. Runs towards the ring as Spears grabs a chair to meet him they're at a stand off in the ring as Cody turns and levels Omega with the sledge and then the Bucks as well. Arn has come out and he and Tully laugh and shake hands as Cody, Spears and FTR hold up the four fingers as show fades to black.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Agree Cody should not be turning heel at least until some time next year. They need to build the promotion up first before wasting big storylines


----------



## Marbar (Dec 20, 2019)

Just keep FTR and change the meaning of it to Four The Revolution. Keep the Horsemen moniker out of it. Have dax, cash, mjf and for shits and giggles throw in britt baker. Four top heels and it shows some originality rather than living in the past.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

shandcraig said:


> Agree Cody should not be turning heel at least until some time next year. They need to build the promotion up first before wasting big storylines


You can’t build up a promotion on small storylines.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

optikk sucks said:


> You can’t build up a promotion on small storylines.


truth

they are one Massive angle away from the next step up


----------



## dan the marino (Oct 22, 2006)

They would have to do it right.

Shawn Spears, as ok as he is, would not be doing it right. Neither would Cody or FTR for that matter but he stuck out the most.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> truth
> 
> they are one Massive angle away from the next step up


People forget about the nWo, Austin vs McMahon etc.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

optikk sucks said:


> People forget about the nWo, Austin vs McMahon etc.


I think a huge Kenny Omega heel turn on the Elite can be their version of Austin/McMahon or NWO. No where near as huge of course, but company changing under AEW parameters.


----------



## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

prosperwithdeen said:


> I think a huge Kenny Omega heel turn on the Elite can be their version of Austin/McMahon or NWO. No where near as huge of course, but company changing under AEW parameters.


Wait, so the rest of The Elite are faces, and Kenny is the heel, and they're feuding?

I mean, maybe I'm missing something, but that's not something that screams AEW's Austin/McMahon or the NWO. Cody turning heel against his friends, maybe. But Kenny on his own as a heel? Eh, I don't see it. Maybe if the Bucks turned with him.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

prosperwithdeen said:


> I think a huge Kenny Omega heel turn on the Elite can be their version of Austin/McMahon or NWO. No where near as huge of course, but company changing under AEW parameters.


Yeah for sure and I can guarantee it’ll bring in some of those lost viewers for sure. I’m hoping that when they do it, it’s with a live audience.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

TD Stinger said:


> Wait, so the rest of The Elite are faces, and Kenny is the heel, and they're feuding?
> 
> I mean, maybe I'm missing something, but that's not something that screams AEW's Austin/McMahon or the NWO. Cody turning heel against his friends, maybe. But Kenny on his own as a heel? Eh, I don't see it. Maybe if the Bucks turned with him.


Omega turns on Elite and joins Cody and the Horsemen.
Big fight for Omegas allegiance - we all expect Omega to pick The Elite - boom, Omega chooses the bad guys.
Fuck this just sounds too good.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

optikk sucks said:


> You can’t build up a promotion on small storylines.


No hence why he should not turn any time soon and MJF turned to soon. Big storylines are many many little things leading up to a big thing.Thats what cody is clearly doing. So i do give him credit. I know i rip on him a lot for being a hog cus he should be making everyone do this.But at least he gets it !


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

optikk sucks said:


> Omega turns on Elite and joins Cody and the Horsemen.
> Big fight for Omegas allegiance - we all expect Omega to pick The Elite - boom, Omega chooses the bad guys.
> Fuck this just sounds too good.


They have done nothing to build Kenny Omega’s character, so why would anyone care that he turned?


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

TD Stinger said:


> Wait, so the rest of The Elite are faces, and Kenny is the heel, and they're feuding?
> 
> I mean, maybe I'm missing something, but that's not something that screams AEW's Austin/McMahon or the NWO. Cody turning heel against his friends, maybe. But Kenny on his own as a heel? Eh, I don't see it. Maybe if the Bucks turned with him.


My vision only has him feuding with Hangman, and maybe Cody. Push himself as The cocky Best bout Machine and bring New Japan Omega back. That versus the current version of Hangman is money I think and would take AEW to the next level. I can really see it being such a hot storyline that it takes AEW up to a million viewers weekly, which would be a milestone. But it could probably just be my head canon talking.

Young Bucks wouldn’t be a part of it as they’d be tied up with FTR and other tag teams. Kind of like how Becky had nothing to do with Rollins heel stuff even though they are clearly aligned.


----------



## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

optikk sucks said:


> Omega turns on Elite and joins Cody and the Horsemen.
> Big fight for Omegas allegiance - we all expect Omega to pick The Elite - boom, Omega chooses the bad guys.
> Fuck this just sounds too good.


Eh, thing is if they ever did an Elite Civil War (which they kind of did in 2018 in NJPW and ROH), Kenny being with Cody over The Bucks who he just fits better with doesn't do it for me. Sure, it's a swerve but it's like a swerve when Sting joined NWO Wolfpac over NWO Hollywood.

Sure, surprising, but ultimately the wrong move. For Sting, he should have never joined either group. And for Kenny, if he's on Cody's team, he's playing 2nd fiddle to Cody and the fit just isn't as strong.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

TD Stinger said:


> Eh, thing is if they ever did an Elite Civil War (which they kind of did in 2018 in NJPW and ROH), Kenny being with Cody over The Bucks who he just fits better with doesn't do it for me. Sure, it's a swerve but it's like a swerve when Sting joined NWO Wolfpac over NWO Hollywood.
> 
> Sure, surprising, but ultimately the wrong move. For Sting, he should have never joined either group. And for Kenny, if he's on Cody's team, he's playing 2nd fiddle to Cody and the fit just isn't as strong.


What would your suggestion be for that next level storyline? I would love a Civil War - especially as I didn’t see their stuff from NJPW/Rob


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Kenny’s story, whenever it hits, is going to be so goddamn over the top superhero. Y’all gonna hate him. Haha


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

bdon said:


> They have done nothing to build Kenny Omega’s character, so why would anyone care that he turned?


They already started my guy, he thinks that his spotlight is being drowned out and that others are getting more popular. JR even pointed it out on commentary about how people don’t think Kenny has been his old self. The takeover is coming. Put together a vignette of Kenny reconnecting with his Japan self and only being out For himself and we’re off to the races. Kenny has so much shit that he could talk about Cody. “This guy placed himself over me, the best bout machine, a guy who dominated wrestling, I couldn’t take it anymore, etc.”


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

prosperwithdeen said:


> They already started my guy, he thinks that his spotlight is being drowned out and that others are getting more popular. JR even pointed it out on commentary about how people don’t think Kenny has been his old self. The takeover is coming. Put together a vignette of Kenny reconnecting with his Japan self and only being out For himself and we’re off to the races. Kenny has so much shit that he could talk about Cody. “This guy placed himself over me, the best bout machine, a guy who dominated wrestling, I couldn’t take it anymore, etc.”


But that doesn’t sound like a heel. That sounds like truth and exposing Cody for the piece of shit person that he is. Heh.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

bdon said:


> But that doesn’t sound like a heel. That sounds like truth and exposing Cody for the piece of shit person that he is. Heh.


Lol naw if Kenny came out like that people would hate him for it, especially if he starts talking shit about Brandi, Young Bucks, and Dustin. Cody is a God to the AEW casuals.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

More proof that AEW casuals know nothing about wrestling. Cody is a POS. Fuck him.

But yeah, if he talks shit about the Bucks, then he is embracing the Dark side, which I don’t see.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> More proof that AEW casuals know nothing about wrestling. Cody is a POS. Fuck him.
> 
> But yeah, if he talks shit about the Bucks, then he is embracing the Dark side, which I don’t see.


you project a lot of weird shit mate

you sure you didn’t have a boss that reminds you of Cody that you hated or something?


----------



## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

prosperwithdeen said:


> My vision only has him feuding with Hangman, and maybe Cody. Push himself as The cocky Best bout Machine and bring New Japan Omega back. That versus the current version of Hangman is money I think and would take AEW to the next level. I can really see it being such a hot storyline that it takes AEW up to a million viewers weekly, which would be a milestone. But it could probably just be my head canon talking.
> 
> Young Bucks wouldn’t be a part of it as they’d be tied up with FTR and other tag teams. Kind of like how Becky had nothing to do with Rollins heel stuff even though they are clearly aligned.


I agree that Kenny as a heel vs. Hangman as a face would be very intriguing given their storyline so far. I just can't see it as something that would move the needle to that point.

And the thing with Kenny is, at least for as long as I've been following his career since 2016, he's always had someone with him to help back him up on screen. In NJPW he had Bullet Club, The Elite, The Bucks, Kota Ibushi, etc. Now he still has The Elite. Honestly one area where I think Omega is kind of untested is being completely on his own.



optikk sucks said:


> What would your suggestion be for that next level storyline? I would love a Civil War - especially as I didn’t see their stuff from NJPW/Rob


Well, if we wanted to do the Civil War, instead of having Omega be the guy the 2 sides fight over, have it be Page.

Page has always felt like the outcast in his group. The Bucks and Kenny started The Elite, Cody came in from his WWE Fame. Hangman was a guy struggling to get over in ROH before The Elite brought him in and helped make him a star. And now you have Hangman who is struggling to find out what he really is. Is he just another cog in The Elite? Does he really look at Kenny and The Bucks as his friends? Can he be his own man?

So imagine if Cody betrayed his brothers and started his own faction. Throw FTR and someone else in there. You have Kenny and The Bucks sticking together. And in the middle is Hangman. Cody could try to persuade Hangman to his side since compared to the others, Cody hasn't done that much wrong to him. But Kenny and The Bucks could still try to help Page and make it clear he's their friend. And from there, you could do a few things. You could have Hangman join his friends. You could have Hangman join Cody before eventually realizing he was wrong. You could have Hangman play the middle and join no one.

Basically it's the same thing as Sting being in the middle of the NWO vs. WCW rivalry, but with a new twist and the characters feel closer to each other.

Besides that, I don't know what could be their Austin/McMahon feud. I mean we have to put this into perspective, in North America at least, how many angles or feuds have reached anywhere close to Austin/McMahon or the NWO. I mean you've had things like Punk/Cena or Bryan vs. The Authority, but nothing really to that level. So it's hard to pull something like that off and have it feel that big. AEW have the ability to tell a lot of good stories. I really just can't think of one that grand that would take the company to the next level.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you project a lot of weird shit mate
> 
> you sure you didn’t have a boss that reminds you of Cody that you hated or something?


HHH was not a great wrestler. He is someone who forced himself into the Top 10-15 of all-time by having the book.

Fuck that shit.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

TD Stinger said:


> I agree that Kenny as a heel vs. Hangman as a face would be very intriguing given their storyline so far. I just can't see it as something that would move the needle to that point.
> 
> And the thing with Kenny is, at least for as long as I've been following his career since 2016, he's always had someone with him to help back him up on screen. In NJPW he had Bullet Club, The Elite, The Bucks, Kota Ibushi, etc. Now he still has The Elite. Honestly one area where I think Omega is kind of untested is being completely on his own.
> 
> ...


This is really good. Would make Hangman a megastar. I think Omega vs Hangman can do it, but if it’s not that feud that takes AEW to the next level then I guess we are not at the point where there is one yet. They’re only 13 months in after all. If Hangman comes out of your storyline on top of the world and feuds with a madman heel Moxley that could be insane too.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> HHH was not a great wrestler. He is someone who forced himself into the Top 10-15 of all-time by having the book.
> 
> Fuck that shit.


awesome, let’s talk about this again in 10 years then if we can


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

bdon said:


> HHH was not a great wrestler. He is someone who forced himself into the Top 10-15 of all-time by having the book.
> 
> Fuck that shit.


C'mon Bdon, Triple H is the total package. Had a look, could talk, was strong in the ring (Not amazing but strong) and most importantly has had enough passion for pro wrestling that he's been on the road for close to 30 years doing it week in and week out.

He also never had the book. He used to sit in on creative meetings with everyone else and learn the business (Plus contribute I'm sure) but the man with the book was and probably always will be Vince.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Being married to the daughter didn’t help, HHH?


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Imagine if within the first year or so of AEW, Cody has been part of The Elite, The Nightmare Family and The Horsemen. Meanwhile he's also feuding with every talent on the roster. All Cody Wrestling (With Brandi) is in full effect.


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

If Cody turns after Kenny then he stole Kenny’s heel turn gimmick...or at least we’ll get a thread about it


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Cult03 said:


> Imagine if within the first year or so of AEW, Cody has been part of The Elite, The Nightmare Family and The Horsemen. Meanwhile he's also feuding with every talent on the roster. All Cody Wrestling (With Brandi) is in full effect.


And some wonder why I hate the mf’er. Lol


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

bdon said:


> Being married to the daughter didn’t help, HHH?


None of us will ever really know. I highly doubt 28 year old Stephanie McMahon had enough stroke to just move things around to suit her boyfriend/husband though especially since at the time she was still learning the business and during Triple H's "reign of terror" she was only 3-4 years in.

Also, Triple H was like a 2 or 3 time WWF Champion before Vince found out about their real life relationship. It's not like Triple H was this skinny idiot jerking the curtain until he started dating Stephanie McMahon and then suddenly became multiple time World Champion.


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

Cult03 said:


> Imagine if within the first year or so of AEW, Cody has been part of The Elite, The Nightmare Family and The Horsemen. Meanwhile he's also feuding with every talent on the roster. All Cody Wrestling (With Brandi) is in full effect.


He came in as part of the Elite
Nightmare Family was already established as well.
Horsemen would be him essentially breaking away from the Elite, nothing entirely wrong with that
Feuding with everyone on the roster is hyperbole

But when you hate someone or something these are the posts you get.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

would you rather a heel Elite with Kenny and bucks as heels, or a Cody/FTR heel faction?


----------



## Peerless (Aug 28, 2014)

Cody really is going to get all the prominent storylines. He burns through them so quickly. He can never feud the same person it always has to be a new one. While everyone else has to deal with shit filler storylines, he gets all the important stuff. 

I thought Bdon was overreacting a while back, but I'm totally on his side. If Cody is going to turn heel this quickly, then he can eat shit.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Peerless said:


> Cody really is going to get all the prominent storylines. He burns through them so quickly. He can never feud the same person it always has to be a new one. While everyone else has to deal with shit filler storylines, he gets all the important stuff.
> 
> I thought Bdon was overreacting a while back, but I'm totally on his side. If Cody is going to turn heel this quickly, then he can eat shit.


_wipes tears from eyes and begins clapping_


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

NXT Only said:


> He came in as part of the Elite
> Nightmare Family was already established as well.
> Horsemen would be him essentially breaking away from the Elite, nothing entirely wrong with that
> Feuding with everyone on the roster is hyperbole
> ...


I like Cody and I've said he's the only one taking it seriously. He is, however, spreading himself very thin when it comes to who he is involved with. He will run out of feuds eventually. He should still just be feuding with MJF, or still be working with MJF because that felt rushed. I don't think he needs to be in The Elite at all. He was kinda shoe horned into the Bullet Club stuff and never quite fit.

Uh oh, these posts must be the kind of posts you get when you're wrong...


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

Peerless said:


> Cody really is going to get all the prominent storylines. He burns through them so quickly. He can never feud the same person it always has to be a new one. While everyone else has to deal with shit filler storylines, he gets all the important stuff.
> 
> I thought Bdon was overreacting a while back, but I'm totally on his side. If Cody is going to turn heel this quickly, then he can eat shit.


What important stuff has he gotten?

First Champ- Jericho
First Tag Champs- SCU
First Casino Battle Royal Winner- Hangman
First Casino Ladder Match- Cage
Best Record- Moxley
First TNT Champ- Cody
Stadium Stampede- No Cody involved

Cody simply can't do anything at this point without complaints.


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

Cult03 said:


> I like Cody and I've said he's the only one taking it seriously. He is, however, spreading himself very thin when it comes to who he is involved with. He will run out of feuds eventually. He should still just be feuding with MJF, or still be working with MJF because that felt rushed. I don't think he needs to be in The Elite at all. He was kinda shoe horned into the Bullet Club stuff and never quite fit.
> 
> Uh oh, these posts must be the kind of posts you get when you're wrong...


Wrong? Or I just disagree with you and all the weirdos who come on here and complain all day?

How will he run out of feuds? None of his feuds have been exhausted to the point where he can't revisit them. 

He needs revenge on MJF and Jericho
Archer should get another shot at him
Darby will eventually beat him

Those are his 4 feuds so far. The Jericho one ended when he was betrayed by MJF. He couldn't go after Jericho anymore because Jericho had the title and Cody couldn't compete for it and still can't. 

The MJF one did go away but I've never been one who wants to see the same guys battling it out every week. 

The Archer one was good, I love how Jake and Cody worked as well. I did think Archer should have been to Cody what Cody has been to Darby so far but seeing where Cody's storyline is now I'm okay with the decision.

I think all the guys can have multi-layered stories, you dont need singular feuds. Remember PAC-Moxley-Omega-Hangman in the beginning all kind of feuding with each other in one or another.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Cody and Darby have been building a story since their first match. is it a full blown rivalry? no, not yet anyway, but i see Darby getting his first win on Cody in the near future, something that may lead to Cody turning heel.

i don't unuderstand the Cody hate at all, he's talneted, he's over, he's understands the business, he cuts a promo better then anyone else on the roster outside of MJF and maybe Jericho. he's going through fueds quickly? so is everyone else. Mox was done with Jericho after one match, Bucks and Hangman/Omega fued was done after 1 match just to name a few. haters gonna hate though


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

alex0816 said:


> would you rather a heel Elite with Kenny and bucks as heels, or a Cody/FTR heel faction?


Fantasy booking time..

Kenny needs to be the one to lose the title. He goes back to Japan without telling the Elite, let them wonder where is he and have some vignettes about a mystery man in a Tokyo tower with a hundred workers listening to his every whim. Nobody knows who it is, talk about Gedo, Okada, Evil, anyone that is huge in Japan will start. Then have an episode of Dynamite end with a man saying Goodbye and Good night. The next few weeks we are hyping the debut of a Heihachi-like (Tekken character) Japanese boss but every week it's a random Japanese wrestler showing up to do the bidding of his boss. Of course these guys lose and whoever his chosen feud is (Hangman maybe) powers through these minions only to have Omega shown on screen saying Hangman wasn't ready but now he has earned his right to face the Best Bout Machine, the Final Boss Kenny Omega. Eventually you sign some Japanese talent worth a damn and Kenny decides to name them "Akuma Elite" or the "Devils Elite".

Kenny, Ibushi and a serious Nakazawa VS Hangman and the Bucks. Or just Kenny VS Hangman. Kenny is obviously the heel, have him speak Japanese in promos and have Hangman getting in bar fights in Japan while searching for him. Make it an action movie, go ALL OUT like you were supposed to. Just do something to make him the star he should be for fucks sake. Let him be a nerd but also make the nerdiness into something worthwhile. That video game promo he had a while back about his friends was interesting and what the fuck happened with it? Who knows.. 

Cody needs to be in a feud with MJF for a long time. MJF won't relent. He wants his spot at the top and he won't stop until everyone knows what kind of person Cody is. Slow build, watch Cody break, flash back to Stardust, have him destroy Goldusts makeup set up, delve into the psyche of a man breaking. Someone who had it all, a hot wife, a good job, a title, friends, 17 stables and watch him lose it on television. Let him be dramatic, let him act his little heart out as a man who is losing everything. Have the bloke from that cosplay looking Arrow show tell him he doesn't have a spot on his show for him at the moment. There's so fucking much this company can do to build characters. I hope they start taking it seriously. I really do..

I know this is all a bit off topic but Cody, Hangman and Kenny don't need the 4 Horsemen at all. They almost need to be on their own in a way, especially Hangman as a lone wolf type. 

MJF, FTR and a 4th. Someone like Hammerstone or even Wardlow if he builds up to be something worthwhile. You guys have to remember, the 4 Horsemen bragged about how good they were in the ring and how good they were with women. Limos, jets, money and being "better than you" was what they were all about. You can't just give Spears a glove and say you're the best now. If they are going to do it, do it right.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

NXT Only said:


> Wrong? Or I just disagree with you and all the weirdos who come on here and complain all day?
> 
> How will he run out of feuds? None of his feuds have been exhausted to the point where he can't revisit them.
> 
> ...


You're wrong about me hating him. So yeah..

Why does he need to bounce around so quickly? Also isn't it fucking weird how easy it is to predict his trajectory. We know what's going to happen with Darby, we know MJF is going to come back, we know everything. Let something be a surprise. Also the problem is that none of these guys do anything after they feud with him. He's literally having a match every week now as well, making sure he can set up future feuds with people who aren't even signed to AEW. He needs to stick to something, build people and then move on because quite frankly, those who look like they're moving upwards are doing it despite Cody, not because of him.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

alex0816 said:


> Cody and Darby have been building a story since their first match. is it a full blown rivalry? no, not yet anyway, but i see Darby getting his first win on Cody in the near future, something that may lead to Cody turning heel.
> 
> i don't unuderstand the Cody hate at all, he's talneted, he's over, he's understands the business, he cuts a promo better then anyone else on the roster outside of MJF and maybe Jericho. he's going through fueds quickly? so is everyone else. Mox was done with Jericho after one match, Bucks and Hangman/Omega fued was done after 1 match just to name a few. haters gonna hate though


Should Mox have been done with Jericho after one match? Hell fucking no. This is an AEW problem, not a Cody problem. They're trying to be too smart and set everything up but it's pretty much dictating to the crowd what to expect. Let something be a surprise. The Cody hate is something you guys conflate with Cody criticisms because AEW super fans can not tell the difference, that's an absolute fact.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Cult03 said:


> You're wrong about me hating him. So yeah..
> 
> Why does he need to bounce around so quickly? Also isn't it fucking weird how easy it is to predict his trajectory. We know what's going to happen with Darby, we know MJF is going to come back, we know everything. Let something be a surprise. *Also the problem is that none of these guys do anything after they feud with him.* He's literally having a match every week now as well, making sure he can set up future feuds with people who aren't even signed to AEW. He needs to stick to something, build people and then move on because quite frankly, those who look like they're moving upwards are doing it despite Cody, not because of him.


Pac come out of his Kenny feud angry as hell and ready to kick ass. Moxley went straight to the top. Darby disappears for a couple weeks, Archer disappears, MJF disappears and wrestles a juniors match with Jungle Boy that we’ve already seen on Dynamite. Shawn Spears gets full on buried.

In Cody hot-shorting angles and spreading himself thin, it buries the rest of the roster. How does anyone intend for their stuff to be exciting, if you’ve got Cody over here burning through shit like his life is ending tomorrow?


----------



## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

Cult03 said:


> Imagine if within the first year or so of AEW, Cody has been part of The Elite, The Nightmare Family and The Horsemen. Meanwhile he's also feuding with every talent on the roster. All Cody Wrestling (With Brandi) is in full effect.


This is the issue, he seems to Pick and choose when he wants to be part of a stable. 

He’s head of the nightmare family but won’t run properly with that storyline because it isn’t main event worthy and people won’t take is seriously. Therefore, he sticks them in a tag team and gives them a semi push and expects fans to take them seriously. No thanks, if it’s not good enough for him it isn’t good enough for me.

When AEW was created by the elite he was the face of the company making him part of the elite, but he decided he didn’t want to be in any storylines with them because he wanted his AEW title shot and MJF feud. Then when the Match beyond with the inner circle was a possibility he decided he was elite again. Then the match beyond possibility disappeared and so did his tie with the elite. He could’ve been part of stadium stampede story line but he wanted the TNT championship solo story, so we got broken matt hardy in a story instead which nearly ruined it (personal opinion).

Now they are teasing a new super stable (4 horsemen) and he seems to be all over it again, which I’m surprised at as FTR recently mocked diamond cutter variations and Canadian destroyers on twitter and Cody and Dustin use them so already a bit of complacency.

I personally feel he should’ve lost to Archer as Cody was already over and didn’t need the rub and then instead of having Cody work his way through tag teams via open challenges he could have chased archer for the title. Now Archer has nothing to do and hasn’t been seen properly for 2 weeks.

I think that Cody is talented and has a place in the main event but he is a lot lower than he thinks he is and should be a part of the show, not the whole show. 

I suspect he will turn heel soon (which is too soon) as he’s already hogged/exhausted the face storylines and it’s more difficult to remain over as a face champion (see Moxley).


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Holy shit guys, what if Cody, Dustin, Spears and QT Marshall are the new 4 Horsemen?


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Cult03 said:


> Holy shit guys, what if Cody, Dustin, Spears and QT Marshall are the new 4 Horsemen?


Wouldn’t surprise me one bit. 

Ego. Run. Amok.


----------



## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

Cult03 said:


> Holy shit guys, what if Cody, Dustin, Spears and QT Marshall are the new 4 Horsemen?
> 
> 😂😂😂 that will probably go down as well as the nightmare collective


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

Cult03 said:


> You're wrong about me hating him. So yeah..
> 
> Why does he need to bounce around so quickly? Also isn't it fucking weird how easy it is to predict his trajectory. We know what's going to happen with Darby, we know MJF is going to come back, we know everything. Let something be a surprise. Also the problem is that none of these guys do anything after they feud with him. He's literally having a match every week now as well, making sure he can set up future feuds with people who aren't even signed to AEW. He needs to stick to something, build people and then move on because quite frankly, those who look like they're moving upwards are doing it despite Cody, not because of him.


Wrestling is relatively predictable, we aren’t kids anymore.

Everything you’re saying is your opinion or perspective which is fine I guess. I just don’t see it that way. Cody isn’t bouncing around, I just think AEW isn’t trying to prolong feuds and drag them out. I was one who wanted the MJF turn to be down the road but iirc a lot of you wanted it to happen even earlier than it did. Y’all can’t have it both ways.

No one needs to stick to one thing, now that is predictable and boring.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

bdon said:


> Pac come out of his Kenny feud angry as hell and ready to kick ass. Moxley went straight to the top. Darby disappears for a couple weeks, Archer disappears, MJF disappears and wrestles a juniors match with Jungle Boy that we’ve already seen on Dynamite. Shawn Spears gets full on buried.
> 
> In Cody hot-shorting angles and spreading himself thin, it buries the rest of the roster. How does anyone intend for their stuff to be exciting, if you’ve got Cody over here burning through shit like his life is ending tomorrow?


Jericho and Hangman were done after one match
Kenny and Mox were done after one match
Jericho and Mox were done after one match
Bucks vs Kenny/Hangman was done after one match
Mox vs Cage will be one and done

so it's not just Cody. you wanna complain about running through fueds, don't just point out Cody

you don't need a fued to last 3 months to be exciting, thats predictable, you can revisit a fued down the road or have a slow burn(Cody vs Darby)

and are you saying Cody has buried people after their fueds? he basically made Darby, MJF was gonna be facing Mox for the belt at double or nothing but he got stuck at home for a long time due to the virus, Archer was literally on TV last week.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

And all of the ones you mentioned, those guys had SOMETHING to do afterwards. Cody’s opponents just disappear with nothing to do after he’s done with them.

Now pretend these are exactly the same fucking scenarios, so that @optikk sucks can like it and everyone pretend AEW doesn’t have booking issues while also admitting he won’t be watching this week due to boring cards that have little to no story and character progression.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Wait... are we ignoring that Cody has no story this week? Just a match

meanwhile, Mox has something building with Cage / Taz
Darby has an underlying thing brewing with Taz / Cage

FTR debuts in A match with B&B and has a story with Young Bucks

MJF has his whole Jungle Boy / the Future thing


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Wait... are we ignoring that Cody has no story this week? Just a match
> 
> meanwhile, Mox has something building with Cage / Taz
> Darby has an underlying thing brewing with Taz / Cage
> ...


preach


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

bdon said:


> And all of the ones you mentioned, those guys had SOMETHING to do afterwards. Cody’s opponents just disappear with nothing to do after he’s done with them.
> 
> Now pretend these are exactly the same fucking scenarios, so that @optikk sucks can like it and everyone pretend AEW doesn’t have booking issues while also admitting he won’t be watching this week due to boring cards that have little to no story and character progression.


Cody's opponents dissapear? i mean Darby been on Dynamite most weeks since it's first episode, got a world title match at one point, has a fued with Taz and Cage building it looks like. MJF was gonna be the number 1 contender after his win over Cody but the virus kept him off tv for long period. it's been two weeks since the Archer match and Archer was on tv last week, these guys have dissapeared? MJF dissapeared because of world circumstances but you blame it on Cody? lol


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

alex0816 said:


> Jericho and Hangman were done after one match
> Kenny and Mox were done after one match
> Jericho and Mox were done after one match
> Bucks vs Kenny/Hangman was done after one match
> ...


Jericho and Hangman were done because they had nothing to build off - Hangman won a number one contender match and rightfully lost. Then it lead the groundwork for The Elite vs. The Inner Circle going into live television.

Kenny and Mox feuded for 6 months, half a year. Sure, not all of that was on TV but where was there to go after Moxley defeated Omega in an unsanctioned match? Moxley went for the title and rightfully so.

Mox/Jericho, yes they were done after one match but the lack of rematch clause was to make sure that happens. Moxley set his sights on Jericho in December and just under 3 months later the feud comes to an end when Moxley beats him clean. There isn't really anywhere for Jericho to go from there? Besides continue the 7 month feud between the Elite and the Inner Circle.

Bucks vs. Kenny/Hangman was probably hindered by the pandemic more than the rest. Bucks and Hangman were pretty much off TV for most of it, Blood n Guts was delayed which was clearly signalling something between all four men and even still they keep up with the Hangman not quite being eye to eye with the rest of the Elite.

Cage/Mox WILL be a one off match - because like Hangman/Jericho, he's one a number one contender match. Cage will have Darby to fall back on which will hopefully be a bit more an actual feud but it's actually interesting to see what happens if Moxley loses - I am not sure where he actually goes once he loses the belt.

-

I think they personally could have built Cody/Archer a lot longer.

Archer was brought to AEW by Jake to destroy Cody. They should not have met in the tournament at all. Archer should have cost Cody a place in the final, Archer destroys Dustin like we saw and then went on to win the belt. Cody then starts chasing him but Archer refuses to give him a shot at the belt etc. - this frustrates Cody and is used as a way to eventually turn him heel and he eventually ends up beating Archer down the line, possibly at All Out - but that's 6 months build right there.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

I can’t say this for sure, but I think if Cody turns heel I’ll officially switch off on even following AEW. I don’t think people realise how fucking TNA this move is. I won’t have the energy left, and it’ll become just another bush league level promotion that I can’t bring myself to discuss seriously.

Bad move if this happens — I’m telling you.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

The Wood said:


> I can’t say this for sure, but I think if Cody turns heel I’ll officially switch off on even following AEW. I don’t think people realise how fucking TNA this move is. I won’t have the energy left, and it’ll become just another bush league level promotion that I can’t bring myself to discuss seriously.
> 
> Bad move if this happens — I’m telling you.


I mean, why would you not believe him when he shows you who he is weekly? He’s HHH with hints of Doube J.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

bdon said:


> I mean, why would you not believe him when he shows you who he is weekly? He’s HHH with hints of Doube J.


I can’t head canon that as being intentional, regardless of if it is or not. I don’t think it’s “brilliant,” just annoying. I watched this random documentary about The Simpsons jumping the shark, and they talk about the episode where Skinner reveals he isn’t Skinner. The writers are absolutely BAFFLED as to why upturning your history turns off a fan base. Cody turning heel is a small-scale version of what Austin did, or what Flair did in ‘99. It’s ripping out your heart and soul to do something “shocking” or have a “story.” That sounds hyperbolic, and I’m not some weirdly obsessed Cody fan. My pet peeve in wrestling is when someone unnecessarily turns. Especially when they hold a critical position or are so over in their place that it’s insane to throw that away.

One of the few good things about AEW, even from a hyper-critical perspective, has been Good Guy Cody. To just throw that away because you want to do a vanity tribute act? Ugh. Just ugh. Cody shouldn’t turn heel until he’s lost the World Title and begins to truly question himself. Right now, he would just be saying “Surprise! I was bad all along!”

It’s reminding me of how the signs were there all along in WCW...

And even if he is going for Triple H/Double J, I don’t know why anyone would WANT to be Single C. Intentionality doesn’t excuse quality.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

The Wood said:


> I can’t head canon that as being intentional, regardless of if it is or not. I don’t think it’s “brilliant,” just annoying. I watched this random documentary about The Simpsons jumping the shark, and they talk about the episode where Skinner reveals he isn’t Skinner. The writers are absolutely BAFFLED as to why upturning your history turns off a fan base. Cody turning heel is a small-scale version of what Austin did, or what Flair did in ‘99. It’s ripping out your heart and soul to do something “shocking” or have a “story.” That sounds hyperbolic, and I’m not some weirdly obsessed Cody fan. My pet peeve in wrestling is when someone unnecessarily turns. Especially when they hold a critical position or are so over in their place that it’s insane to throw that away.
> 
> One of the few good things about AEW, even from a hyper-critical perspective, has been Good Guy Cody. To just throw that away because you want to do a vanity tribute act? Ugh. Just ugh. Cody shouldn’t turn heel until he’s lost the World Title and begins to truly question himself. Right now, he would just be saying “Surprise! I was bad all along!”
> 
> ...


I wasn’t commenting on whether it is good or not, just the fact that Cody is a selfish prick. Why would you be surprised when he decides to turn heel to maintain his hotshot booking choices to maintain relevancy and main event storyline status.


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Wait... are we ignoring that Cody has no story this week? Just a match
> 
> meanwhile, Mox has something building with Cage / Taz
> Darby has an underlying thing brewing with Taz / Cage
> ...


Hey, stop posting facts that don’t fit their narrative.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

NXT Only said:


> Hey, stop posting facts that don’t fit their narrative.


sorry mate, i know.... sometimes i can help myself

‘CoDyHHH” - that should appease them


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

To pretend Cody isn’t treating himself like HHH is laughable.


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

NXT Only said:


> Hey, stop posting facts that don’t fit their narrative.


You're doing the same so…...

We're all doing it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

bdon said:


> To pretend Cody isn’t treating himself like HHH is laughable.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

rbl85 said:


> You're doing the same so…...
> 
> We're all doing it.


In your own minds..


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

bdon said:


> I wasn’t commenting on whether it is good or not, just the fact that Cody is a selfish prick. Why would you be surprised when he decides to turn heel to maintain his hotshot booking choices to maintain relevancy and main event storyline status.


I'm not going to be surprised, but it doesn't mean I have to accept it.


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

rbl85 said:


> You're doing the same so…...
> 
> We're all doing it.


I dont do what the weirdos do so yeah, move along.


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

The Wood said:


> I'm not going to be surprised, but it doesn't mean I have to accept it.


If you keep watching the show then you've accepted it. FACT.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

NXT Only said:


> If you keep watching the show then you've accepted it. FACT.


It's possible to watch something and not like what you see. What sort of masochist would argue otherwise?


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

The Wood said:


> It's possible to watch something and not like what you see. What sort of masochist would argue otherwise?


Yet watching it and complaining about things that clearly aren’t changing...hoping they change? That’s insanity and you have accepted it.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

bdon said:


> Being married to the daughter didn’t help, HHH?


Edge has like 12 world titles and more importantly Vince has always like him, so probably not as much as folk think


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Saying Cody isn't modern day HHH/JJ is laughable it's enjoyable but you can call a spade a spade. The man just had Mike fucking Tyson introduce his midcard title and now he's in position to main event every TV show because "well it's a midcard title I have to establish it as important... By beating tag guys in open challenges" lol. 

As far he doesn't leave his opponents worst off only Darby has benefitted from working with him as far as unestablished folk go.

Spears- fell off a cliff so hard that the only way to seemingly save him is to force feed him into a Horseman reboot. Well before that fails. 

Butcher & Blade- showed up looked like they'd be the big bruisers of the tag division. Then they lost their second match to Cody and Darby, they've been a low tag team since. 

Wardlow- lost his very first important match

MJF- best Cody yet somehow Cody is better off. MJF has been having filler feuds with Jungle Boy and now the Gunn family.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

RapShepard said:


> Saying Cody isn't modern day HHH/JJ is laughable it's enjoyable but you can call a spade a spade. The man just had Mike fucking Tyson introduce his midcard title and now he's in position to main event every TV show because "well it's a midcard title I have to establish it as important... By beating tag guys in open challenges" lol.
> 
> As far he doesn't leave his opponents worst off only Darby has benefitted from working with him as far as unestablished folk go.
> 
> ...


At least Jarrett was doing it out of necessity due to how little star power TNA had. As soon as TNA signed Angle, Christian and Sting he pretty much immediately dropped the belt and that was it.

Cody has plenty of better/just as good options around him but it's still all about him


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Chip Chipperson said:


> At least Jarrett was doing it out of necessity due to how little star power TNA had. As soon as TNA signed Angle, Christian and Sting he pretty much immediately dropped the belt and that was it.
> 
> Cody has plenty of better/just as good options around him but it's still all about him


I didn't enjoy him which is what a heel is supposed to do anyway lol. But I don't really blame him as he had a lot of stake in that company succeeding and counting on yourself makes a ton of fucking sense. Selfish from a fan enjoyment view, but understandable from a business perspective.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Time for this shit to start paying off

they‘ve been hyping it on twitter between them and FTR for over a month now - but this is the first Spears / Cody interaction


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281039156064456705


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## CenaBoy4Life (Jul 31, 2013)

Spears is garbage and Cody doesnt have the charisma to lead a stable. 

Nobody besides marks knows who tully is and arn. Nobody cares about either of these people. Its just a weird sad rip off of Fortune or WWEs 4 horsewomen with none of the talent or Flair. Cody has no imagination or creativity.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

CenaBoy4Life said:


> Spears is garbage and Cody doesnt have the charisma to lead a stable.
> 
> Nobody besides marks knows who tully is and arn. Nobody cares about either of these people. Its just a weird sad rip off of Fortune or WWEs 4 horsewomen with none of the talent or Flair. Cody has no imagination or creativity.


oooookayyyyyyyy


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

CenaBoy4Life said:


> Spears is garbage and Cody doesnt have the charisma to lead a stable.
> 
> Nobody besides marks knows who tully is and arn. Nobody cares about either of these people. Its just a weird sad rip off of Fortune or WWEs 4 horsewomen with none of the talent or Flair. Cody has no imagination or creativity.


----------



## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

Might be nice if they stopped teasing it so much on social media honestly. The subtle hints on TV go much farther than blatantly foreshadowing it on social media. Almost feels like it's something that's not even going to happen or if it does it won't be what anyone expects.


----------



## Outlaw91 (Mar 31, 2011)

It would be nice to break up the Elite, it would be something fresh. I also want to see more stables and these 4 would make a good New Era 4 Horsemen especially managed by Arn and Tully. Arn looks goofy as a face but as a heel he would kill it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

TD Stinger said:


> Might be nice if they stopped teasing it so much on social media honestly. The subtle hints on TV go much farther than blatantly foreshadowing it on social media. Almost feels like it's something that's not even going to happen or if it does it won't be what anyone expects.


guess they keep doing it every week to try and get people to tune in

but its time to pull the trigger on some of the big shit they have cooking

they can’t hold back much longer

either this or hangman / kenny has to happen in the next 3 weeks


----------



## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> guess they keep doing it every week to try and get people to tune in
> 
> but its time to pull the trigger on some of the big shit they have cooking
> 
> ...


I don't expect anything "big" to happen until during or after All Out.

All Out is less than 2 months away, so I assume everyone will stay in their current alignments at least until then. After the Lucha Bros got the deciding pin last night, I could see facing Omega & Hangman at All Out while FTR and the Bucks wrestle on the same show. Lucha Bros win the belts, FTR beats the Bucks, and there's a title feud right there. And after that, Kenny and Hanmgan can split up, whether it's clean or not.

As for Cody, I don't know, probably keep doing what he's been doing for now and get someone big enough to face at All Out.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

TD Stinger said:


> I don't expect anything "big" to happen until during or after All Out.
> 
> All Out is less than 2 months away, so I assume everyone will stay in their current alignments at least until then. After the Lucha Bros got the deciding pin last night, I could see facing Omega & Hangman at All Out while FTR and the Bucks wrestle on the same show. Lucha Bros win the belts, FTR beats the Bucks, and there's a title feud right there. And after that, Kenny and Hanmgan can split up, whether it's clean or not.
> 
> As for Cody, I don't know, probably keep doing what he's been doing for now and get someone big enough to face at All Out.


holding pattern stuff trying to wait out the pandemic

its a shame, but i agree - your scenario is more likely


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

I can see Cody starting to form his gang from the week after Fight for the Fallen till All Out. Spears turning face, Cody and Arn mending things with Tully and Spears to fight off a common enemy (Archer w/ Jake maybe).

As for FTR, I can see a triple threat tag match for the world tag titles between Omega/Hangman vs YBs vs FTR at All Out. With Omega & bucks turning on Hangman and Youngbucks winning. FTR can join Cody the next night.

/FantasyBooking


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

zkorejo said:


> I can see Cody starting to form his gang from the week after Fight for the Fallen till All Out. Spears turning face, Cody and Arn mending things with Tully and Spears to fight off a common enemy (Archer w/ Jake maybe).
> 
> As for FTR, I can see a triple threat tag match for the world tag titles between Omega/Hangman vs YBs vs FTR at All Out. With Omega & bucks turning on Hangman and Youngbucks winning. FTR can join Cody the next night.
> 
> /FantasyBooking


that sounds pretty good actually


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

I see Spears and Tully watching the 8 man tag match and Dax wearing a glove.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Time for this shit to start paying off
> 
> they‘ve been hyping it on twitter between them and FTR for over a month now - but this is the first Spears / Cody interaction
> 
> ...


I'd have zero issue with a corporate heel Cody leading a new horsemen group, but even if I figure it to happen eventually, could they not go out of their way to make this so blatantly obvious?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

El Hammerstone said:


> I'd have zero issue with a corporate heel Cody leading a new horsemen group, but even if I figure it to happen eventually, could they not go out of their way to make this so blatantly obvious?


_when_ does it happen though? And _how_?


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> _when_ does it happen though? And _how_?


If I go into a movie or new series, I don't want to be told straight out that a particular character will die, even if I'm not told when and how it happens; any way you look at it, the impact is going to be lessened because I'm going to be waiting for it the whole time.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

Been thinking about names since they probably could not name themselves Four Horsemen. Maybe "Horsemen Breed" or "The Horsemen Stable" as a play of "horse breed/horse stable". That way they could also have more than four guys like Cody, FTR, Spears, Ricky Starks. My dream member would be Bobby Roode. I wonder when his contract will ever end in the WWE?


----------



## ceeder (May 10, 2010)

Wolf Mark said:


> Been thinking about names since they probably could not name themselves Four Horsemen. Maybe "Horsemen Breed" or "The Horsemen Stable" as a play of "horse breed/horse stable". That way they could also have more than four guys like Cody, FTR, Spears, Ricky Starks. My dream member would be Bobby Roode. I wonder when his contract will ever end in the WWE?


Holy shit those two names are awful.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

They should stop teasing it. Too many teases lately. I honestly don't want the group to form until sometime next spring or summer, I don't really want them to put FTR in a stable this fast.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

ceeder said:


> Holy shit those two names are awful.


😂 I don't disagree


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

This stable is going to fail because they're leaning too heavy on the Horseman. They can't live up to that. Also Shawn Spears sucks and shouldn't be in a major stable.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

i wouldn't form the group until after all out. maybe by then inner circle disbands, Cody slowly becomes more of a heel if that's the route they are going.

also wouldn't want Spears in the group as he kinda sucks. Starks would be good imo. maybe have FTR vs Spears and a partner one week with Tully turning on Spears to join FTR


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

RapShepard said:


> This stable is going to fail because they're leaning too heavy on the Horseman. They can't live up to that. Also Shawn Spears sucks and shouldn't be in a major stable.


Spears sucks and they cannot live up to the Horsemen but there has been good Horsemen-like groups that did a good job like the Dangerous Alliance. This was a really an awesome group.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Wolf Mark said:


> Spears sucks and they cannot live up to the Horsemen but there has been good Horsemen-like groups that did a good job like the Dangerous Alliance. This was a really an awesome group.


While not a fan of stables anymore, yes stables can do well. But Cody, FTR, and Spears or anybody else so clearly trying to be the New Horseman is a recipe for disaster. Like just be your own thing. It's great Cody clearly loves his dad and the promotion that made his dad's fortune. But for fucks sake do stop going to the "remember my dad and this" well.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

RapShepard said:


> While not a fan of stables anymore, yes stables can do well. But Cody, FTR, and Spears or anybody else so clearly trying to be the New Horseman is a recipe for disaster. Like just be your own thing. It's great Cody clearly loves his dad and the promotion that made his dad's fortune. *But for fucks sake do stop going to the "remember my dad and this" well.*


This company is basically his toy, that will never happen. lol 

Personally I don't mind to see it return cause I'm such a Horsemen fan and guys like FTR are obviously a tribute to Arn and Tully. If you think about it, Jericho and the Inner Circle have been playing the same role as the 4H for quite a while since the launch of Dynamite. But it has quieted down since he lost the title and the start of the pandemic. 

My main issue would be that I don't know if AEW has the ability in them to create the sort of heat to make something like that work.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Can they pull it off? I guess we'll see. It might turn out very average but im hoping for the best


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

RapShepard said:


> While not a fan of stables anymore, yes stables can do well. But Cody, FTR, and Spears or anybody else so clearly trying to be the New Horseman is a recipe for disaster. Like just be your own thing. It's great Cody clearly loves his dad and the promotion that made his dad's fortune. But for fucks sake do stop going to the "remember my dad and this" well.


Yep and its the same guy also shitting on the past yet wants aew to have so much of it


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

TD Stinger said:


> Might be nice if they stopped teasing it so much on social media honestly. The subtle hints on TV go much farther than blatantly foreshadowing it on social media. Almost feels like it's something that's not even going to happen or if it does it won't be what anyone expects.


They do it for likes and attention. They can't help themselves.

If it was WWE you'd have Vince going mental over it unless it was given the thumbs up by his staff.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> _when_ does it happen though? And _how_?


Ugh. You really will excuse anything.

Imagine if the Horsemen just formed and we had all these subtle hints for months that it was happening that nobody actually picked up on? Aces & Eights (A storyline written by Eric Bischoff who people here hate) had that with Bully Ray showing on video how everything went down and mocked the fans for not picking up on it.

Not in AEW though. Tease it for likes.



RapShepard said:


> This stable is going to fail because they're leaning too heavy on the Horseman. They can't live up to that. Also Shawn Spears sucks and shouldn't be in a major stable.


A good point here I think. Has a group ever reformed and done better than the original?

DX? Nope.

nWo? Nope.

The Four Horsemen? Nope.


----------



## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

So are Cody and Spears friends again?

From what I’ve seen since AEW started is that Spears got relegated to dark after his Cody feud, he then got pinned in the tnt tournament by a figure 4 submission, then got embarrassed by Cody’s brother in his tully pants, then got shipped back to dark. Cody has also referred to him as a good hand and Spears aligned himself with MJF during crowd pandemic segments.

I like Spears but can’t understand why he’d want to join a stable with somebody who has done all of the above to him.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Hitman1987 said:


> I like Spears but can’t understand why he’d want to join a stable with somebody who has done all of the above to him.


Because this is AEW and *NOTHING MAKES SENSE*


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

Hitman1987 said:


> So are Cody and Spears friends again?
> 
> From what I’ve seen since AEW started is that Spears got relegated to dark after his Cody feud, he then got pinned in the tnt tournament by a figure 4 submission, then got embarrassed by Cody’s brother in his tully pants, then got shipped back to dark. Cody has also referred to him as a good hand and Spears aligned himself with MJF during crowd pandemic segments.
> 
> I like Spears but can’t understand why he’d want to join a stable with somebody who has done all of the above to him.


Swerve coming obviously


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

They're so going to do this. What I am going to laugh at is what they call themselves. I imagine these names are sketched down somewhere: 


Horsepower
IV
IV League (Ivy League...get it?)
Foursemen
Cody and the Three Horsemen
Elite Four
Midnight Riders
The Pale Riders
The Beyond

Oh god, so many awful names to choose from. They're going to do this, it's going to feel so forced, and it's going to die a death and be one step closer to them overdoing it and burning out their audience.


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

Can they use the Four Horsemen name? Or The Horsemen?


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

My guess would be no. You'd think WCW would have owned that trademark and the WWE would have purchased it in 2001. But they probably shouldn't even if they could, because it's going to draw comparisons to a MUCH better stable.


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

The Wood said:


> My guess would be no. You'd think WCW would have owned that trademark and the WWE would have purchased it in 2001. But they probably shouldn't even if they could, because it's going to draw comparisons to a MUCH better stable.


WWE nor WCW ever owned the trademark


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

NXT Only said:


> WWE nor WCW ever owned the trademark


Then why would you ask the question?


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

WWE is probably hoping they do so that people see them as a bad knock-off and it hurts them. Let them introduce their own Trojan horse(men).


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

The Wood said:


> Then why would you ask the question?


Because just because WWE doesn’t own the trademark doesn’t mean whomever does will allow them to use it.


----------



## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

NXT Only said:


> Because just because WWE doesn’t own the trademark doesn’t mean whomever does will allow them to use it.


the bible?


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

La Parka said:


> the bible?


I hear Jesus can be a bit litigious. Might be best to avoid his trademarks.


----------



## Prized Fighter (Aug 31, 2016)

Name should be "The Four" and should be Cody, FTR and Ricky Starks. I would also be down with Hangman Page being the 4th member, but I think there is more money in him as a single act.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Think they can use the name

nobody seems to own it - might be too generic to trademark / even thought attempts were made


----------



## FaceTime Heel (Sep 1, 2016)

Wolf Mark said:


> Been thinking about names since they probably could not name themselves Four Horsemen. Maybe "Horsemen Breed" or "The Horsemen Stable" as a play of "horse breed/horse stable". That way they could also have more than four guys like Cody, FTR, Spears, Ricky Starks. My dream member would be Bobby Roode. I wonder when his contract will ever end in the WWE?


Cody, FTR, Spears, and Ricky Starks is what I'd like to see. With their duo of coaches (Arn and Tully). I just hope that if this does become a thing that the name deviates from any Horsemen imagery.


----------



## TheDraw (Jun 27, 2019)

They have the four perfect guys for this. Cody, FTR are perfect. Spears is a guy wh really needs the shine from this as well because he's been floundering big time.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

TheDraw said:


> They have the four perfect guys for this. Cody, FTR are perfect. Spears is a guy wh really needs the shine from this as well because he's been floundering big time.


id replace Spears with Starks


----------



## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

TheDraw said:


> They have the four perfect guys for this. Cody, FTR are perfect. Spears is a guy wh really needs the shine from this as well because he's been floundering big time.


I think Spears is in there to be the mid card guy who occasionally loses/takes pins allowing Cody to focus on main event and FTR to focus on tag team division. 

The perfect person if they are going to be a heel faction would’ve been MJF as he’s young and not ex-wwe but he’s better off where he is now with Wardlow and should be going straight into the AEW title picture ASAP.


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

I think that Cody, FTR and MJF should be the 4 Horsemen but it looks like the 4th guy will be Spears. I don't think he really fits.


----------



## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

elidrakefan76 said:


> I think that Cody, FTR and MJF should be the 4 Horsemen but it looks like the 4th guy will be Spears. I don't think he really fits.


It would be perfect, Cody whose father helped create old school wrestling, FTR who love old school wrestling and MJF who is the future Of wrestling because he acts like an old school wrestler.

On a side note MJF, Wardlow and FTR would make an awesome stable


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

Hitman1987 said:


> It would be perfect, Cody whose father helped create old school wrestling, FTR who love old school wrestling and MJF who is the future Of wrestling because he acts like an old school wrestler.
> 
> On a side note MJF, Wardlow and FTR would make an awesome stable


I think that MJF would fit perfectly because of his personality as the arrogant, rich kid. Right now Cody would be the Ric Flair and leader of the group but he could eventually pass the torch to MJF who would be like the Tully Blanchard of the group at first.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Think they can use the name
> 
> nobody seems to own it - might be too generic to trademark / even thought attempts were made


Yeah, the whole point of copyright law is to avoid confusion in the marketplace. That is why Flair can trademark "The Man" in respect to entertainment, but not in every industry. It is why Delta can be both an airline and a faucet company.

I thought I had remembered Conrad trying to copyright it, and it looks like he abandoned it:










Should be interesting. I am sure WWE would fight any new attempt. They can show all the old t-shirts and marketing stuff they own from back in the day.


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

Lheurch said:


> Yeah, the whole point of copyright law is to avoid confusion in the marketplace. That is why Flair can trademark "The Man" in respect to entertainment, but not in every industry. It is why Delta can be both an airline and a faucet company.
> 
> I thought I had remembered Conrad trying to copyright it, and it looks like he abandoned it:
> 
> ...


If the name 4 Horsemen can't be used then the Nightmare Collective would be a good name but that has already been used to name Brandi Rhodes' stable of jobbers.


----------



## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

The Wood said:


> They're so going to do this. What I am going to laugh at is what they call themselves. I imagine these names are sketched down somewhere:
> 
> 
> Horsepower
> ...


I would fucking eat my hat if it is „Cody and the three horsemen“ 😂😂


----------



## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

elidrakefan76 said:


> If the name 4 Horsemen can't be used then the Nightmare Collective would be a good name but that has already been used to name Brandi Rhodes' stable of jobbers.


This is another continuity issue that I have where Cody pretty much has a stable in the nightmare family with Arn, Dustin, QT and Brandi.

I am interested to see how they separate him from the nightmare family, especially Brandi, if he’s going to lead the horsemen and expect more than an emoji on twitter as a reason for Spears to be aligned with Cody again.

The wrestling fan in me hopes that there’s some intricate master plan with MCU type Easter eggs that I’ve missed that ties it all together.

The realist in me expects them to ignore everything that’s happened during pandemic months and just throw 4 people together at the end of a dynamite episode, similar to death triangle.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

The problem with MJF joining the group, I mean how can you justify it after he whiped Cody like a red head step child in front ot the World where Cody cried? It would have to be MJF who would initiate the reconciliation. Do a storyline where Cody is pissed off that the Elite do not come helping him against certain groups. Then you could even have a match where you have Cody teaming with other people against the Elite in a match. And he's not sure if he wants in or not. He fights them during the match but he doesn't go further than that. Then next week have MJF do a promo in the ring saying to Cody that "you are better than that, where is the Cody I knew, the lion, the guy with a killer streak, I miss my friend who wanted to shake up the World. You got soft because these guys made you soft. They betrayed you more than I ever could. I'm proposing an alliance. But first you must go after these guys. You have to face them for the real Cody to come out". You go from there and then do more twist and turns until the group is formed. Of course at some point you would have FTR turn on the Bucks too.


----------



## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

I don't want to see Spears anywhere near this group unless they actually prove they are going to book him as somewhat of a threat going forward and not just make him look like a fool like they've done for the past year. You do that, and maybe he can be the 4th guy in there to eat some of the pins and have a decent amount of success.

I don't want to see MJF in the group because I want him and Cody to continue to hate each other, no matter what alignment they are in. Rick Starks though as mentioned would perfect. Great up and comer that has the look (besides height) and can talk.


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

The camera panned to Spears and Tully showing approval of FTR on Dynamite this week, I feel that's either another clue or a big coincidence.

I don't see a problem with Spears being in the group. Ricky Starks is brand new to the company, so I can't see it happening. Spears has a backstory of trying to go serious and having Tully as his mentor.

And he looks a lot better in this new serious role than the goofy stuff he was doing before.

If this is to be a long-term group lasting years, then there's the Pillman Jr. option down the line.


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

Spears would be okay but I feel like they can do better. Pillman would be nice and the rub he’d get would be amazing but Spears could justify his spot by saying he beat him. Tessa would be amazing honestly. I wish Braun was available.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

If Spears, Cody or MJF are involved in the group together I want every single one of you who praised AEW's long term booking to apologize for being completely full of shit


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

But will they be face or heel


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

Cult03 said:


> If Spears, Cody or MJF are involved in the group together I want every single one of you who praised AEW's long term booking to apologize for being completely full of shit


With any good bookings, you could make things work in 5 seconds. Read my post with the MJF promo.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Honestly, they need to just reboot the Inner Circle. FTR kick Santana y Ortiz out of the group and turn them into renegade babyfaces. Send Hager away to fight in Bellator again (even as a work). Sammy Guevara is out. The group should be Jericho, MJF, Wardlow and FTR. Let them be managed by Tully. He was supposed to introduce the Inner Circle anyway, back before they cut bait on Shawn Spears the first time. Build to a War Games match between the Inner Circle and the guys that have been displaced and Mox. Apparently, Mox is very good at putting matches together. Jericho is Jericho. MJF is one of the best workers in the business. FTR are really good at putting things together. You put together that match and you've got a really, really good War Games that can have blood, brawling and all that good stuff.

Throw that on a PPV with Cody vs. Darby Allin for the TNT Championship, Kenny Omega & Adam Page vs. The Young Bucks (ew), Pac vs. Jungle Boy, Pentagon, Jr. vs. Rey Fenix, Brian Cage vs. Brodie Lee vs. Lance Archer for the FTW Championship, Scorpio Sky & Dustin Rhodes vs. Christopher Daniels & Frankie Kazarian, a Women's Title match -- there's your All Out card. If you need a ninth match, put Ricky Starks, Colt Cabana & Private Party against Matt Hardy (who turns on Private Party), Trent (who turns on Chuck Taylor), The Butcher & The Blade (who are managed by Matt Hardy).

That card would keep the bullshit to a minimum (Omega & Page vs. The Bucks isn't for me, but I'm sure Dave will give it six stars), and allow you to build up future stars. 

* Dustin Rhodes plays the babyface-in-peril just about better than anybody else. He gets the hot tag to Scorpio Sky who gets the pin to start things off hot. 

* Colt Cabana stretches Matt Hardy in Colt's hometown to get the win on the relatively lower-card heels. Trent walks off at some point, because he's sick of Matt Hardy's shit. He moves up. Ricky Starks gets a lot of shine to earmark him. 

* The big men brawl and beat the piss out of each other. They will likely be damaged goods at this point. Brian Cage is the youngest one, so he gets the pin and keeps the belt. 

* Jungle Boy sells his ass off for Pac. Man, you could eventually build this up to a hair vs. hair stipulation. In that case, Pac wins here to make Jungle Boy chase. But if this is the Hair vs. Hair Match, you have Jungle Boy get the flash pin and shave Pac's head. 

* Pentagon, Jr. and Rey Fenix go and have the match that people will want to see from them. I'd probably go with Pentagon, Jr. winning here.

* The Women's Title can see Britt Baker fuck Hikaru Shida over royally to get the belt and have a giant overblown celebration for her finest hour. I did toy with the idea of Baker completely washing out in her first match back, but she is the most interesting woman they have. If she can fake hurting her leg, she could get the match called off and then attack Shida after it's stopped for an angle. It's the Women's Title and it's their Women's Division. It's not exactly the selling point of the PPV.

* The Tag Team Title match can go a billion miles an hour. Make it a Ladder Match if you're not going to do a Ladder Match for ages, but ideally you'd be able to hold that off like Hair vs. Hair. The Bucks can win here and get the belts. Whatever. Everyone waits for the heel turn...it doesn't come. 

* Darby Allin finally beats Cody and wins the TNT Title. Cody shakes Darby's hand after the match and everyone waits for the heel turn...it doesn't come. 

* The heels win War Games, because at some point you are probably going to put Jericho's guys against a team led by Cody. And another team has Jake Hager and Ex-LAX on it. The other side has Jericho, MJF, Wardlow & FTR. They beat the piss out of each other, the final fall sees MJF get the fall over Guevara. 

Eh, I feel like that would be a good show.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Wolf Mark said:


> With any good bookings, you could make things work in 5 seconds. Read my post with the MJF promo.


Good booking can't make Spears and MJF work with Cody any time soon. MJF was already with Cody, smart long term booking would have had MJF stay with Cody until now. Smart long term booking wouldn't include Spears getting buried with Tully on his underwear before trying to make him part of a 4 Horsemen reboot. There's no justifying this


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

MJF is too selfish to work within a team, that'd be bad booking.

Spears has heat with Cody, that'd be bad booking.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Chip Chipperson said:


> MJF is too selfish to work within a team, that'd be bad booking.
> 
> Spears has heat with Cody, that'd be bad booking.


I think MJF could work within a team if he was using the team for his own advantage. But that's somewhat putting a team together just to break them up, so I can feel your point on that.


----------



## Derek30 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Wood said:


> They're so going to do this. What I am going to laugh at is what they call themselves. I imagine these names are sketched down somewhere:
> 
> 
> Horsepower
> ...


Cody and the Three Horsemen killed me


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

Derek30 said:


> Cody and the Three Horsemen killed me


Is that like Goldilocks and the 3 bears?


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1284894247188156421

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1284928091807191041


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

Oh wow, will they go for the Pillman option? The storyline is there but he's very, very green. It'd make all this Tully/Spears stuff a red herring I guess?

Saw this before, it's fan-made:


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

NXT Only said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1284894247188156421
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1284928091807191041


I hate how they all go out of their way to take the surprise and heat out of everything. How about leaving some mystery to actually make people tune in??

Imagine Twitter existing in 1996 and Hall and Nash posting "WCW" as their status a few weeks before they showed up. Or dudes posting "nWo" a couple weeks before joining...


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

Lheurch said:


> I hate how they all go out of their way to take the surprise and heat out of everything. How about leaving some mystery to actually make people tune in??
> 
> Imagine Twitter existing in 1996 and Hall and Nash posting "WCW" as their status a few weeks before they showed up. Or dudes posting "nWo" a couple weeks before joining...


Rating wise it make more sense to do what they're doing


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

rbl85 said:


> Rating wise it make more sense to do what they're doing


I would argue that it really, really does not long term and this is EXACTLY what WWE would do. This is why we keep calling them WWE lite. We all still remember them taking the shock out of Bischoff showing up on RAW by having it done in a backstage segment instead of getting that live crowd reaction. So bad.

What is going to help ratings more? Spoiling your big stories online to try and get people to watch or creating that atmosphere that ANYTHING can happen on your show?


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

This version of The Horsemen is not going to draw ratings. And I like everyone involved. It’s going to feel very cosplay.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

The Horsemen were a group built around Ric Flair — The Man, the World’s Heavyweight Champion. They were four of the best overall workers in the world when they were at their best. Cody is putting himself in too much of a position he can’t handle and Pillman is too green, even though I like him. FTR are a fit in terms of what they are going for, but they are not Tully & Arn.

This is going to disappoint people hard.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

The Wood said:


> deleted for brevity
> 
> * The Tag Team Title match can go a billion miles an hour. Make it a Ladder Match if you're not going to do a Ladder Match for ages, but ideally you'd be able to hold that off like Hair vs. Hair. The Bucks can win here and get the belts. Whatever. *Everyone waits for the heel turn...it doesn't come.*


Goddamn I had to quote and bold this little golden nugget just to make sure it didn’t go unnoticed. I literally laughed out loud. Haha


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

Lheurch said:


> I hate how they all go out of their way to take the surprise and heat out of everything. How about leaving some mystery to actually make people tune in??
> 
> Imagine Twitter existing in 1996 and Hall and Nash posting "WCW" as their status a few weeks before they showed up. Or dudes posting "nWo" a couple weeks before joining...


Little to no mystery In 2020. It does give them the chance to swerve us tho. Let’s let it play out and see what happens.


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

Lheurch said:


> I would argue that it really, really does not long term and this is EXACTLY what WWE would do. This is why we keep calling them WWE lite. We all still remember them taking the shock out of Bischoff showing up on RAW by having it done in a backstage segment instead of getting that live crowd reaction. So bad.
> 
> What is going to help ratings more? Spoiling your big stories online to try and get people to watch or creating that atmosphere that ANYTHING can happen on your show?


The thing is if you don't do it then the episode in which we discover who will be the the 4 horsemen will see 0 bump in the rating.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Who cares? If people want to see it they’ll tune in next week. And the general air that the product is evolving would encourage people to never miss a show.

Unpredictability can be overrated, but there’s a difference between foreshadowing and telegraphing.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

I think if I was in charge I'd sacrifice the ratings once or twice to try and give off the impression that on any given Wednesday anything can occur on my TV show. That unpredictable "Anything can happen!" feel is a draw in itself. "Better not miss AEW, never know what will happen!"

Also, only in AEW would they have Pillman Jr. lose to Spears in 5 minutes, get squashed by Brian Cage and then join The Horsemen in what I can only assume will be the companies top angle.



Lheurch said:


> I hate how they all go out of their way to take the surprise and heat out of everything. How about leaving some mystery to actually make people tune in??
> 
> Imagine Twitter existing in 1996 and Hall and Nash posting "WCW" as their status a few weeks before they showed up. Or dudes posting "nWo" a couple weeks before joining...


They're trying to be cute by swerving us. The problem is nobody cares if it's Spears or if it's Pillman Jr.



Lheurch said:


> I would argue that it really, really does not long term and this is EXACTLY what WWE would do. This is why we keep calling them WWE lite. We all still remember them taking the shock out of Bischoff showing up on RAW by having it done in a backstage segment instead of getting that live crowd reaction. So bad.
> 
> What is going to help ratings more? Spoiling your big stories online to try and get people to watch or creating that atmosphere that ANYTHING can happen on your show?


The worst thing is it's not even an attempt to get people to watch they are literally spoiling their big stories online for likes.



NXT Only said:


> Little to no mystery In 2020. It does give them the chance to swerve us tho. Let’s let it play out and see what happens.


I think I'm kind of done waiting to see things play out and see what happens. This thread was started 2 months ago about The Horsemen reuniting and apart from scouting in the crowd and some cryptic tweets the "See what happens" approach has left me bored and unexcited.

The company has no idea what they're doing.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

rbl85 said:


> The thing is if you don't do it then the episode in which we discover who will be the the 4 horsemen will see 0 bump in the rating.


Here is my thought process on this. You either have long term building or you live week by week. Television executives do not care about week to week, so popping one big rating means nothing. It matters infinitely more about building that rating over time.

If you spoil something like this, you are likely going to get an increase in viewership over the next couple weeks to see how it plays out. Problem is when it concerns something as iconic as the Horsemen, nothing you are going to do is going to live up to Ric Flair. So most of your "new" fans that tune in are going to say "that was...good I guess" and it never lives up to nostalgia and they knew it was coming.

The other way to do this is you have it happen live with no spoilers. That "shock" value gets you a lot of the way over the hump of living up to nostalgia. And you create an atmosphere where anything can happen so you HAVE to tune in live. This is what built WCW into the powerhouse it was.

If you had WCW announcing that Scott Hall was going to show up two weeks before he did, you would definitely get an increase in the ratings that week, but would anyone still be talking about a guy we knew was coming showing up 24 years later? I would argue no. You had that shocking moment, followed by the promise of another one a week later, then the biggest shock of all to come a month or so later. They created a buzz and atmosphere of needing to turn in.

This is just such an example of short range thinking and planning. How much more social media buzz would AEW get if they had this happen live and unexpected?


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Lheurch said:


> This is just such an example of short range thinking and planning. How much more social media buzz would AEW get if they had this happen live and unexpected?


We can't be critical of short sighted fans though because this is how AEW books anyway. They don't book the next PPV and start booking backwards they just throw shit against the wall every couple weeks and hope it all comes together nicely.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Chip Chipperson said:


> We can't be critical of short sighted fans though because this is how AEW books anyway. They don't book the next PPV and start booking backwards they just throw shit against the wall every couple weeks and hope it all comes together nicely.


It drives me nuts because this is WWE 101. I am going to keep using this quote because it puts it to succinctly: "I want an alternative to WWE, not alternative WWE."


----------



## ECFuckinW (Jun 29, 2020)

I'm hella hyped for the horseman its going to be sweet.


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

Lheurch said:


> It drives me nuts because this is WWE 101. I am going to keep using this quote because it puts it to succinctly: "I want an alternative to WWE, not alternative WWE."


How is this WWE 101


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

By teasing it you keep people guessing. Same thing with the Omega/Hangman inevitable heel turn/betrayal. You never know when it’s going to happen.

Just another small thing for haters to complain about.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

Lheurch said:


> I would argue that it really, really does not long term and this is EXACTLY what WWE would do. This is why we keep calling them WWE lite. We all still remember them taking the shock out of Bischoff showing up on RAW by having it done in a backstage segment instead of getting that live crowd reaction. So bad.
> 
> What is going to help ratings more? Spoiling your big stories online to try and get people to watch or creating that atmosphere that ANYTHING can happen on your show?


Yea back in the day we used to laugh at how the WWF would always telephraph a turn or surprise either by giving ints during the shows or actually promoting a return. Whereas WCW were great at delivering surprises, whether it was via the Four Horsemen or the nWo. Seems to me AEW are taking the WWF/E's path rather than the NWA/WCW path which is very un-Horsemen like. 

Also my biggest fear is that they make these Horsemen faces.


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

If they did it without any tease or build then you’d all say they just threw 4 guys together and made them throw the 4 up and cry about it.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

NXT Only said:


> If they did it without any tease or build then you’d all say they just threw 4 guys together and made them throw the 4 up and cry about it.


You can do a build up without talking about the 4H all the time. Like place Cody in a position where he is always overwhelmed by diverse groups and his Elite friends never help him out. And the Nightmare family never help him out either. So there would be a need for him to look for allies. You have FTR at some point turn on the Bucks. Then you could have the Elite fight FTR and other guys, Cody comes in and people think he's gonna save them but he turns on the Elite. So it's Cody and FTR together for a few weeks. Even at this point they don't mention the 4H. But the weeks following this they are trying to convince Adam Page to join them as the fourth member. This could be a sort of mystery. You perhaps do a match Page vs Omega at the next PPV after they split up. After the match Cody and FTR come in and they jump Omega and Page actually defends Omega and attack Cody and FTR but then from the crowd either Pillman or Ricky Stark enter the ring and lay Page out! You could say they were unsure about Page so they recruited someone better. They do the Four Fingers. Then the Bucks come in for the save.

After that, the sky's the limit where they could go. At the next Dynamite, Cody and the others could do a promo where Cody says "things are gonna change around here, we are looking for more allies, those that represents the "Horsemen Breed". People that are willing to do whatever it takes to win". Cause you see if they cannot use the 4H for a name then that means they don't have a limit in numbers of people that can join.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

NXT Only said:


> How is this WWE 101


As I explained in an earlier post, it is about ruining shocking and could be iconic moments in favor of short term ratings bumps. WWE has done that forever. They spoiled Bischoff showing up for the first time by having him walk by Booker T right before a commercial instead of having him walk out live. They did that so people would call their friends and get a ratings bump in the next segment. But it is so weak looking back on it.

Look at when Vince brought in the nWo. You had him announce it one week with no one showing up, then you had Hogan show up for the first time in about 9 years on a freaking video. All for the purpose of getting more people to order No Way Out. I get wanting to promote stuff, but imagine this:

Vince does his promo about injecting poison into his creation but does not say how. Then the RAW before No Way Out, Rock and Austin are main eventing in a tag match. Vince comes out during the match causing a distraction/DQ. Then a masked guy comes out and lays out Rock AND Austin and stands over them. The crowd is meh so far because they figure it is just another dude Vince is repackaging as monster of the week. He goes to take the mask off but pauses and then rips off his shirt Hogan style grabbing the mask off in the same move revealing Hogan in an nWo shirt. Imagine THAT crowd reaction vs a video. Which one gives you an iconic moment everyone is talking about vs a one week ratings bump?

Short term thinking like this drives me nuts and is exactly from the Vince playbook.


----------



## Jazminator (Jan 9, 2018)

Part of me wants a swerve where Cody thinks he will lead the new Horsemen, but then FTR lays him out cold. Are and Tully sneer and say, “You actually thought we’d allow a RHODES to be a member of the most elite group of all time? What are you smoking, Cody?!”

They then introduce the leader of the Horseman, and he’s wearing the original ten pounds of gold: Nick Aldis.

The New Horsemen:

Aldis: Stylish leader, carries himself like a champ
FTR: The tag-team machine
Ricky Starks: The cocky ladies man with the unlimited future


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

Jazminator said:


> Part of me wants a swerve where Cody thinks he will lead the new Horsemen, but then FTR lays him out cold. Are and Tully sneer and say, “You actually thought we’d allow a RHODES to be a member of the most elite group of all time? What are you smoking, Cody?!”
> 
> They then introduce the leader of the Horseman, and he’s wearing the original ten pounds of gold: Nick Aldis.
> 
> ...


YES!!!! 🤘


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Jazminator said:


> Part of me wants a swerve where Cody thinks he will lead the new Horsemen, but then FTR lays him out cold. Are and Tully sneer and say, “You actually thought we’d allow a RHODES to be a member of the most elite group of all time? What are you smoking, Cody?!”
> 
> They then introduce the leader of the Horseman, and he’s wearing the original ten pounds of gold: Nick Aldis.
> 
> ...


Good swerve.


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

Jazminator said:


> Part of me wants a swerve where Cody thinks he will lead the new Horsemen, but then FTR lays him out cold. Are and Tully sneer and say, “You actually thought we’d allow a RHODES to be a member of the most elite group of all time? What are you smoking, Cody?!”
> 
> They then introduce the leader of the Horseman, and he’s wearing the original ten pounds of gold: Nick Aldis.
> 
> ...


BOOM.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

The Wood said:


> The Horsemen were a group built around Ric Flair — The Man, the World’s Heavyweight Champion. They were four of the best overall workers in the world when they were at their best. Cody is putting himself in too much of a position he can’t handle and Pillman is too green, even though I like him. FTR are a fit in terms of what they are going for, but they are not Tully & Arn.
> 
> This is going to disappoint people hard.


Cody is one of the most talented all around wrestlers i've seen in a while. he could handle that role just fine imo.

Pillman i no nothing about. i haven't watched his dark matches or anything. but i'll take anything over them trying to legitimize Spears AGAIN. no thanks. i prefer Starks actually. has the charisma


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

Jazminator said:


> Part of me wants a swerve where Cody thinks he will lead the new Horsemen, but then FTR lays him out cold. Are and Tully sneer and say, “You actually thought we’d allow a RHODES to be a member of the most elite group of all time? What are you smoking, Cody?!”
> 
> They then introduce the leader of the Horseman, and he’s wearing the original ten pounds of gold: Nick Aldis.
> 
> ...


that be different. but i'd rather them do that to spears lol. Cody would be great as the front man of a horsemen like stable


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Jazminator said:


> Part of me wants a swerve where Cody thinks he will lead the new Horsemen, but then FTR lays him out cold. Are and Tully sneer and say, “You actually thought we’d allow a RHODES to be a member of the most elite group of all time? What are you smoking, Cody?!”
> 
> They then introduce the leader of the Horseman, and he’s wearing the original ten pounds of gold: Nick Aldis.
> 
> ...


Even I'd be all in on this. Aldis has motivation because Cody beat him for the NWA World Title before, Rhodes has motivation to go chasing because Aldis is a dog that screwed him over. Great idea.

Unfortunately it won't happen though. AEW could never book anything like that.


----------



## Jazminator (Jan 9, 2018)

alex0816 said:


> that be different. but i'd rather them do that to spears lol. Cody would be great as the front man of a horsemen like stable


Oh, I agree. I just think a swerve like this would be fun.

In the early 1980s, there was an incredibly hot angle where Dusty asked his old arch enemy, Ole Anderson, to be his partner against the hated assassins. Ole agreed, and the two battled the Assassins all over the territory. Then came the climactic cage match, and Ole turned on Dusty and helped the Assassins beat Dusty down. In his promo later, Ole said he was just waiting for the right moment. It was awesome.

Ole turned on Dusty.

And some 40 years later, imagine Arn “waiting for the right moment” to turn on Cody.


----------



## Hitman1987 (May 25, 2020)

I personally feel like the 4th member, whether he joins straight away or replaces somebody (say spears) at a later date, needs to be a homegrown, main event player. I imagine the end goal is for the four horseman to have all 4 titles at the same time and Cody can’t hold the World title (unless they completely ignore previous stories) so it needs to be somebody worthy of the title. 
Best options are hangman or MJF but hangman seems to be fine as a Lone Ranger and MJF and Wardlow are better off as they are.

Teased options have been Spears and Pillman jr. Spears would be a good hand but it’s difficult to take him seriously after his burials, Pillman jr is very new but has the look and potential but has already been squashed (not buried) twice so he appears to be at the bottom of the roster pecking order and has some building work to do. Spears or Pillman jr would make Cody the main player of the faction though so maybe that’s why they’re going with those options.


----------



## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

Jezuz freaking Tully has more passion and can still show how it's done and spears stands looking away , ffs, that promo was better than any I've seen off anyone in a long time, FTR done the 4 HM sign during the lucha bros match.

Money that , take a bow Tully, spears on chris van vliet seems distracted by something I know that tyler breeze and him have opened a wrestling school, maybe he can piss off there full time or listen and actually learn and stop the arrogance like he's freaking over, FTR would be sweet cody and Arnold, tully giding would be sweet.

Peace.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Jazminator said:


> Part of me wants a swerve where Cody thinks he will lead the new Horsemen, but then FTR lays him out cold. Are and Tully sneer and say, “You actually thought we’d allow a RHODES to be a member of the most elite group of all time? What are you smoking, Cody?!”
> 
> They then introduce the leader of the Horseman, and he’s wearing the original ten pounds of gold: Nick Aldis.
> 
> ...


This is way better than what will actually happen. I guarantee it.


----------



## Arm Drag! (Jul 21, 2020)

Jazminator said:


> Part of me wants a swerve where Cody thinks he will lead the new Horsemen, but then FTR lays him out cold. Are and Tully sneer and say, “You actually thought we’d allow a RHODES to be a member of the most elite group of all time? What are you smoking, Cody?!”
> 
> They then introduce the leader of the Horseman, and he’s wearing the original ten pounds of gold: Nick Aldis.
> 
> ...


This is a great idea! But for a slight personell change. Aldis and FTR make great sense. I dont see why they couldnt have Spears as 4 though. Tully found him more than a partner, he found him a stable.

He'd be electric in the times the horsemen were face. It would justify the big storyline about finding him a partner. Big Aldis and Spears flanking the stocky FTR boys would have a nice visual impact. Teaching Spears the Horse Men way would be a great story. Especially if they try and fail, then Flair comes in and teaches him a different way, which Spears really takes to. Sets up heat with Aldis naturally too. The rest writes itself.


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

I see guys crapping on AEW not doing the swerve when in reality Aldis isn't under AEW contract so even if they wanted to they couldn't. They still have to tell the best story they can within the limits they have roster wise. Cody makes sense in the group with what they have now.


----------



## Arm Drag! (Jul 21, 2020)

NXT Only said:


> I see guys crapping on AEW not doing the swerve when in reality Aldis isn't under AEW contract so even if they wanted to they couldn't. They still have to tell the best story they can within the limits they have roster wise. Cody makes sense in the group with what they have now.


Tell you what might work?! We have 2 of the 4 horse men (of THE APOCALYPSE)....

Maybe they 'create' a stable actually called 'The Apocalypse'?!?!?! That could work. People could come and go without worrying about having 4 of them. They could still throw up 4 fingers as a sign of respect to Arn and Tully.

You could swap out Aldis for Cody. Cody bring Arn. Spears brings Tully. FTR be FTR. Got 4 to start with at least. That could work equally well, and the story arc is sensible. Also might get to see Ric Flair down the line leading his won stable as a manager. Give real impact to any Flair appearance.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286791424403558400


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Cody is a fucking goober.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

cody top 3 in the business right now

haters gonna hate


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

alex0816 said:


> cody top 3 in the business right now
> 
> haters gonna hate


I like Cody as a performer. But he’s definitely a goober outside it. And there’s no way he’s top 3 _in the business_.

He’s not better than Brock. He’s not better than Bryan. He’s not better than Orton. Or Styles. Or Edge. Or Rey. Jericho, Okada, Tanahashi. There are arguably people that are way better in the ring. There are people way better on the mic. Cody would be lucky to crack the top 10.

He is an excellent and noteworthy babyface, but he is intent on shattering those lines and starting a heel faction that he won’t think of as heel, even though they are.

If he can’t even think of these dichotomies correctly, why should anyone have any faith in the overall booking?


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

between his look, his mic work (which is some of the best right now), his in ring, not many come close to him right now. are some better on thr mic? sure (MJF). are some better in the ring? yea (Styles). but as a complete package, he's the dude right now. 

not Brock, not Orton, not Edge, not Rey, not even Jericho right now. all those guys have too many years on them to keep up a great match or don't have the mic skills to make people care as much imo.

and you're making assumptions on what his faction could possibly be. and if they do go down a route where they aren't heels or faces, then so be it. it's something different rather then typical heel group or typical face group


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Erik. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286791424403558400


Damn does this guy love to make everything dramatic lmao
Just say tweener bruh


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

alex0816 said:


> between his look, his mic work (which is some of the best right now), his in ring, not many come close to him right now. are some better on thr mic? sure (MJF). are some better in the ring? yea (Styles). but as a complete package, he's the dude right now.
> 
> not Brock, not Orton, not Edge, not Rey, not even Jericho right now. all those guys have too many years on them to keep up a great match or don't have the mic skills to make people care as much imo.
> 
> and you're making assumptions on what his faction could possibly be. and if they do go down a route where they aren't heels or faces, then so be it. it's something different rather then typical heel group or typical face group


Way more people care about those guys you said people don’t care about than do Cody. Brock, Edge, Orton and Rey have all had great matches within the last calendar year. With someone else in that selection too. Cody’s promos aren’t for everyone. It’s debatable whether he’s better on the mic than any of them except Brock, who comes with Heyman who is obviously better.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

The Wood said:


> Way more people care about those guys you said people don’t care about than do Cody. Brock, Edge, Orton and Rey have all had great matches within the last calendar year. With someone else in that selection too. Cody’s promos aren’t for everyone. It’s debatable whether he’s better on the mic than any of them except Brock, who comes with Heyman who is obviously better.


Cody is better then a bunch of guys who barely wrestle anymore and are mostly in WWE for their name value rather then their talent at this point. you act like Cody hasn't been having great, entertaining matches for a few years now.

Cody is better then all those dudes on the mic too and it's not even close. only one close is a manager in Heyman and maybe Edge but it ain't 2006 no more so Cody is definitely ahead of him


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

alex0816 said:


> Cody is better then a bunch of guys who barely wrestle anymore and are mostly in WWE for their name value rather then their talent at this point. you act like Cody hasn't been having great, entertaining matches for a few years now.
> 
> Cody is better then all those dudes on the mic too and it's not even close. only one close is a manager in Heyman and maybe Edge but it ain't 2006 no more so Cody is definitely ahead of him


Why do you think these people have name value? Because of their talent. I didn’t say anything about Cody not having entertaining matches. Absolutely none of them have been as good as those guys at their best though. He’s just not there. Their schedule is really irrelevant to that. And it depends on my mood as to whose promos I’d rather listen to. Cody gets a touch of the melodrama. I’m not saying he’s bad, but I can see why he’s an acquired taste.


----------



## Sex Ferguson (Feb 7, 2013)

I just hope Shawn spears isn’t in it


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

The Wood said:


> I like Cody as a performer. But he’s definitely a goober outside it. And there’s no way he’s top 3 _in the business_.
> 
> He’s not better than Brock. He’s not better than Bryan. He’s not better than Orton. Or Styles. Or Edge. Or Rey. Jericho, Okada, Tanahashi. There are arguably people that are way better in the ring. There are people way better on the mic. Cody would be lucky to crack the top 10.
> 
> ...


whenever i do a top anything, it is about today

and while i love Bryan, being my fav wrestler - nothing he is doing today is putting him in the top anything

same with Brock, Orton, Edge - these are guys I rate and they aren’t even getting me to watch their show

if you took the past 5 years in consideration, Cody doesn’t smell the top

but on ‘today’ - top 3 at least


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

The Wood said:


> Why do you think these people have name value? Because of their talent. I didn’t say anything about Cody not having entertaining matches. Absolutely none of them have been as good as those guys at their best though. He’s just not there. Their schedule is really irrelevant to that. And it depends on my mood as to whose promos I’d rather listen to. Cody gets a touch of the melodrama. I’m not saying he’s bad, but I can see why he’s an acquired taste.


they have name value cause they've been in wwe for years. same reason why Goldberg was brought back multiple times as well. im talking about right now. Cody is better then Lesnar, Edge, Orton, Bryan by a long shot. none of them have ever been great mic worker besides Edge and maybe a couple from Bryan. and their schedule is absolutely relevant. who's better, the guy wrestling and cutting solid promos every week? or the guy on tv once every few months? Cody is top tier in wrestling right now and i don't understand how anyone can argue that. he has it all atm



LifeInCattleClass said:


> whenever i do a top anything, it is about today
> 
> and while i love Bryan, being my fav wrestler - nothing he is doing today is putting him in the top anything
> 
> ...


THANK YOU!


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Who knows what will happen but will be interesting to seewhat direction they pick. 

Also loved that guys idea of nick being the leader. No one would be more fitting as a heel talker in that group than him


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> whenever i do a top anything, it is about today
> 
> and while i love Bryan, being my fav wrestler - nothing he is doing today is putting him in the top anything
> 
> ...


Bryan has the best matches in the US -- his work with Styles, Gulak and Cesaro has led to the best in-ring stuff since the pandemic. He's having the best matches on the most watched show. Just because wrestling fans in the bubble poo-poo it, doesn't mean it ain't the top. Working with Bryan is still infinitely more prestigious than working with Cody. 

You're in the minority of modern fans not watching that show. AEW isn't even at 50% of the audience for Raw or SmackDown right now. Brock Lesnar's performance in the 2020 Royal Rumble was fucking ace. His match against Rey Mysterio was great. These things were better than anything Cody has ever done. Sorry, but it's true. Yes, the match with Dustin had all them "feels," but that's quickly faded and he's done nothing anywhere near as great, only really touching "solid" or "good." Which is fine and high enough praise. But top three? 

Orton and Edge had a fantastic match at Backlash. Yeah, the promotion was weird and shitty, but the match itself, again, was better than anything Cody has _ever_ done in the ring. That was mere months ago. 

You actually have to be in the minority of modern wrestling fans that are marks for AEW to believe that Cody is in the top three wrestlers in the world. And that's cool -- you do you -- but you're not going to slip it by as some objective or reasonable statement by any metric. As I said, he may not even make the top ten, and even then you'd probably have to grade on a curve because you want AEW representation in there. Is he even in the top three in AEW? 

Brock is still the best worker in the world. Sorry to bust anyone's bubble. I know that makes people cranky because "he doesn't care about the business" and he doesn't blow the fans on Twitter and talk about how he's just a regular guy and happy to be a part of a new wrestling movement or whatever, but he is the best. That's why he gets to call his shots so much. It's why he gets paid the most. He doesn't have to be your favourite. You don't have to go and watch WWE like most modern fans still prefer. But if you are making a list of the best and he's not topping your guys right now, then you aren't going to win any credibility contests. 



alex0816 said:


> they have name value cause they've been in wwe for years. same reason why Goldberg was brought back multiple times as well. im talking about right now. Cody is better then Lesnar, Edge, Orton, Bryan by a long shot. none of them have ever been great mic worker besides Edge and maybe a couple from Bryan. and their schedule is absolutely relevant. who's better, the guy wrestling and cutting solid promos every week? or the guy on tv once every few months? Cody is top tier in wrestling right now and i don't understand how anyone can argue that. he has it all atm
> 
> 
> THANK YOU!


Yeah, and why have they been used in the WWE for years? Goldberg was brought back multiple times because he's a star with charisma and presence and influences metrics. If Cody was better than Lesnar, Edge, Orton and Bryan then he wouldn't likely be in the situation he is right now, and he would be drawing a lot more eyeballs to himself. And it's hard to be that good -- especially in 2020 with wrestling in a hole. Again, that's not even a knock on the guy. But he's busting his ass because he needs to bust his ass to earn the credibility he doesn't already have because he's not on that level.

Orton can fucking talk. The WWE style is boring as fuck, but Cody isn't exactly Flair on the mic. He's not going to go onto a list of wrestling's all-time great talkers anytime soon. If they were all in the same place and time, there's no way Cody smokes any of them on the mic, and they might actually put him in his place a bit. Especially since he has these giant rehearsed monologues that do get quite silly. 

The guy on TV once every few months is better. Way better. Not only is he better in the ring and a way bigger star, but he's also worked out how to rig things so he doesn't have to work every week for bullshit internet cred. It's not even close. If you have a choice to headline a show with Cody Rhodes or Brock Lesnar, who are you going to choose? There is actually a correct and incorrect answer. 

Cody has enough of everything. I'm not sitting here and saying that he sucks. He's fine in the ring and is capable of having good matches. He's even had a few "very good" ones (Dustin, tags against the Shield in WWE). He's fine on the mic. If you're into him, then you're probably going to get pretty hyped by some of his promos. If you don't like him, you're probably going to find them a mixed bag or not like them. He's a bit of a try-hard and if you want to give points for effort, you're more than welcome to. But to pretend that he's one of the very best right now at anything other than being intrinsically linked to the DNA of the babyface company with new car smell is just way too much. 

Cody deserves a spot on the card and he's over enough to justify being used in main event roles for the moment.


----------



## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

^lol good lord


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

NXT Only said:


> ^lol good lord


Great point, thanks for joining the conversation and bringing with you some insight.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

This is why AEW fans can sometimes be the worst.

Cody is simply good. Not great, not amazing but also not bad or terrible. To say he's one of the best three going today is massively overrating his abilities


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

NXT Only said:


> ^lol good lord


What an amazing and hard hitting response!


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Chip Chipperson said:


> This is why AEW fans can sometimes be the worst.
> 
> Cody is simply good. Not great, not amazing but also not bad or terrible. To say he's one of the best three going today is massively overrating his abilities


The parallels between him and HHH are pretty amazing. I do not hate either of them by any means but they have the same chip on their shoulders.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Lheurch said:


> The parallels between him and HHH are pretty amazing. I do not hate either of them by any means but they have the same chip on their shoulders.


I defended the sledge to the throne at Double or Nothing, but the similarities are uncanny at this point.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Wood said:


> I defended the sledge to the throne at Double or Nothing, but the similarities are uncanny at this point.


His entire theme song is about HHH. And what was HHH's first big single's song? My Time. It is just so ironic to me because the exact way HHH felt about being held down and always being the #2 guy is exactly how Cody turned out to be. It is kind of like finding out when a parent abuses a child that the parent was also abused. I know I am obsessed with psychology, but it adds a very clear and interesting lens to all this.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

The Wood said:


> Bryan has the best matches in the US -- his work with Styles, Gulak and Cesaro has led to the best in-ring stuff since the pandemic. He's having the best matches on the most watched show. Just because wrestling fans in the bubble poo-poo it, doesn't mean it ain't the top. Working with Bryan is still infinitely more prestigious than working with Cody.
> 
> You're in the minority of modern fans not watching that show. AEW isn't even at 50% of the audience for Raw or SmackDown right now. Brock Lesnar's performance in the 2020 Royal Rumble was fucking ace. His match against Rey Mysterio was great. These things were better than anything Cody has ever done. Sorry, but it's true. Yes, the match with Dustin had all them "feels," but that's quickly faded and he's done nothing anywhere near as great, only really touching "solid" or "good." Which is fine and high enough praise. But top three?
> 
> ...


they've been in wwe for years because wwe can't make new stars anyone cares about and they rely on legends. Bryan is the only star they've made in the last decade and that was soley on fan repsonse, they didn't even want him to be a star. they botched Punk, Rollins ain't that great, Roman gets rejected. so they rely on Taker, Lesnar, Goldberg, HHH, Edge now, Orton still, they're there because they're depended on because wwe can't depend on new stars. being depended on in your late 40s-50s doesn't make you great, it makes wwe foolish

again you're bringing up all time and th past, i never said Cody is an all time great on the mic, i don't even think he's currently the best, but he is one of the best RIGHT NOW.Orton hasn't cut a great promo in years

star power has nothing to do anything. of course those guys have more star power, they work for the far more popular company where more eyes are on them, it doesn't make them better. AJ Styles was a top 5 wrestler for 15 years before he went to wwe. Brock Lesnar is repetitive at this point, there's reasons he only wrestles 4 times a year if that, because wwe lets him cause they depend on his name value so much, and if he did work just every ppv, people would see how one dimensional he is at this point. suplex suplex suplex suplex. so yea of course someone would rather work with Lesnar, they'll get paid more but thats not what nyone is talking about. you bring up star power and money as an argument as to why someone is a top 3 talent and thats absurd.

AEW may not exist without Cody because he is that good and no one wants to give him credit.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

The Wood said:


> Bryan has the best matches in the US -- his work with Styles, Gulak and Cesaro has led to the best in-ring stuff since the pandemic. He's having the best matches on the most watched show. Just because wrestling fans in the bubble poo-poo it, doesn't mean it ain't the top. Working with Bryan is still infinitely more prestigious than working with Cody.
> 
> You're in the minority of modern fans not watching that show. AEW isn't even at 50% of the audience for Raw or SmackDown right now. Brock Lesnar's performance in the 2020 Royal Rumble was fucking ace. His match against Rey Mysterio was great. These things were better than anything Cody has ever done. Sorry, but it's true. Yes, the match with Dustin had all them "feels," but that's quickly faded and he's done nothing anywhere near as great, only really touching "solid" or "good." Which is fine and high enough praise. But top three?
> 
> ...


Not disputing that but I would say that from my perspective, Cody excites me more than Bryan and Orton and Brock at this point in time cause he's still a fresh talent in my eyes. He's a new young main eventer. I really started getting into his work at the beginning of Dynamite in 2019. Before that, all I saw of him was tag team matches with him and Dustin in the WWE and the awful run as Stardust. Since then I saw his match against Okada in Japan and then his AEW work. I've watched some of Bryan matches lately and he's still good but it's like I lost the taste of it. Maybe it's because I lost the excitement for the character cause he's essentialy midcard now and I cannot help but think of him when he was the guy after he defeated the Evolution guys, etc...Orton seems to be on a reclamation streak since he has turned heel lately and attacked Edge and that's fine. But with him too I turned the page. (But I do have become tired of primadonna Cody too so....lol)

I would take all three Orton, Bryan and Brock on AEW though.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Lheurch said:


> His entire theme song is about HHH. And what was HHH's first big single's song? My Time. It is just so ironic to me because the exact way HHH felt about being held down and always being the #2 guy is exactly how Cody turned out to be. It is kind of like finding out when a parent abuses a child that the parent was also abused. I know I am obsessed with psychology, but it adds a very clear and interesting lens to all this.


Yeah, his desire to make this Rhodes vs. McMahon was kind of cute at the start, but he’s starting to resemble the thing that he apparently hates. You’ve got Triple H, you had Double J, and now youve



alex0816 said:


> they've been in wwe for years because wwe can't make new stars anyone cares about and they rely on legends. Bryan is the only star they've made in the last decade and that was soley on fan repsonse, they didn't even want him to be a star. they botched Punk, Rollins ain't that great, Roman gets rejected. so they rely on Taker, Lesnar, Goldberg, HHH, Edge now, Orton still, they're there because they're depended on because wwe can't depend on new stars. being depended on in your late 40s-50s doesn't make you great, it makes wwe foolish
> 
> again you're bringing up all time and th past, i never said Cody is an all time great on the mic, i don't even think he's currently the best, but he is one of the best RIGHT NOW.Orton hasn't cut a great promo in years
> 
> ...


This is a really simplified and smarky view. They’re in WWE because they _are_ stars. And they can all still go.

Your use of star is arbitrary and slim. Punk, Rollins, Ambrose, Reigns, Wyatt, Charlotte, Becky, Braun, Drew — just because you don’t rate them doesn’t mean they aren’t stars within that context. If AEW fans get to say that Darby Allin is being built into a star, then you’ve got to accept that these people with ten times the fans are too.

They are better though. Lol, I listed matches they’ve all had that are better than what Cody has had. You’re just marginalising that because it doesn’t fit what you want the reality to be.

It’s not absurd to point out how valuable someone is to the business. It’s a fucking business. That’s the point of the work. The goal is to put butts in seats. Drawing is a factor.

It was the perfect time to start up a wrestling promotion opposite Vince. TV rights fees have made this possible. Vince McMahon has made this possible, in the weird irony of it. Something might have started without Cody, and it may have run better, because it might have had less ego and less of a PWG mentality. But again, it’s not that Cody isn’t good to a degree. He’s a talented dude. It’s just to the extent people are imagining something that isn’t there.

Again, if you choose Cody over Brock to start your wrestling promotion, you are absolutely knsane



Wolf Mark said:


> Not disputing that but I would say that from my perspective, Cody excites me more than Bryan and Orton and Brock at this point in time cause he's still a fresh talent in my eyes. He's a new young main eventer. I really started getting into his work at the beginning of Dynamite in 2019. Before that, all I saw of him was tag team matches with him and Dustin in the WWE and the awful run as Stardust. Since then I saw his match against Okada in Japan and then his AEW work. I've watched some of Bryan matches lately and he's still good but it's like I lost the taste of it. Maybe it's because I lost the excitement for the character cause he's essentialy midcard now and I cannot help but think of him when he was the guy after he defeated the Evolution guys, etc...Orton seems to be on a reclamation streak since he has turned heel lately and attacked Edge and that's fine. But with him too I turned the page. (But I do have become tired of primadonna Cody too so....lol)
> 
> I would take all three Orton, Bryan and Brock on AEW though.


That’s absolutely fair enough. Environment matters, and you’re allowed to be sick of the WWE and follow Cody more closely. Those are all reasonable points.

If Orton, Bryan and Brock were in AEW, I guarantee that not only would AEW fans be shitting themselves in excitement, but all three would outshine Cody. In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me if Cody didn’t want them in AEW for that reason (bdon has convinced me, haha).


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

The Wood said:


> Bryan has the best matches in the US -- his work with Styles, Gulak and Cesaro has led to the best in-ring stuff since the pandemic. He's having the best matches on the most watched show. Just because wrestling fans in the bubble poo-poo it, doesn't mean it ain't the top. Working with Bryan is still infinitely more prestigious than working with Cody.
> 
> You're in the minority of modern fans not watching that show. AEW isn't even at 50% of the audience for Raw or SmackDown right now. Brock Lesnar's performance in the 2020 Royal Rumble was fucking ace. His match against Rey Mysterio was great. These things were better than anything Cody has ever done. Sorry, but it's true. Yes, the match with Dustin had all them "feels," but that's quickly faded and he's done nothing anywhere near as great, only really touching "solid" or "good." Which is fine and high enough praise. But top three?
> 
> ...


that’s why it’s _MY opinion_

something like a ‘tops’ list can almost never be factual

i am the biggest Bryan mark in the world - you can just check the history of these boards during the ‘yes’ movement for proof, but IMO saying right now having a program against him is more prestigious than Cody is laughable to me. And that hurts me to type, believe - as somebody who also hated Cody during WWE

The rest of the essay is just like, your opinion man


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Chip Chipperson said:


> This is why AEW fans can sometimes be the worst.
> 
> Cody is simply good. Not great, not amazing but also not bad or terrible. To say he's one of the best three going today is massively overrating his abilities


this is why AEW detractors can sometimes be the worst, the ignore greatness even when it stares them in the face

they ignore what is happening on the screen and substitute their own reality


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> that’s why it’s _MY opinion_
> 
> something like a ‘tops’ list can almost never be factual
> 
> ...


It being your opinion doesn’t make it right. And you absolutely can make lists that try to at least be a little bit objective. Obviously things are going to have a variance in how they are weighted, but to act like we have no indicators at all is too far in the other direction.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

The Wood said:


> *It being your opinion doesn’t make it right.* And you absolutely can make lists that try to at least be a little bit objective. Obviously things are going to have a variance in how they are weighted, *but to act like we have no indicators at all is too far in the other direction.*


i agree with the bolded part + with the other bolded part

which if you take them in combo basically says ‘my top 5 list, while not being universally ‘correct’ - does come from a place of knowledge as a fan of wrestling for 20 years’

right?

so..... from that space, of knowing it is not universally correct, but also having knowledge and looking at the landscape today

Cody as an all-rounder, is a top 3 talent today

now, you might not accept it - and that’s fine - as mentioned, it might not be Universally correct.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i agree with the bolded part + with the other bolded part
> 
> which if you take them in combo basically says ‘my top 5 list, while not being universally ‘correct’ - does come from a place of knowledge as a fan of wrestling for 20 years’
> 
> ...


Yes, and I can explain why that’s rubbish.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

The Wood said:


> Yes, and I can explain why that’s rubbish.


of course you can - but it won’t be an ‘explanation’ - as that denotes ‘education’

you’ll just be ‘giving your opinion’ on why its rubbish


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> of course you can - but it won’t be an ‘explanation’ - as that denotes ‘education’
> 
> you’ll just be ‘giving your opinion’ on why its rubbish


Backed up with evidence and examples.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

The Wood said:


> Backed up with evidence and examples.


any ‘evidence’ and ‘example’ in wrestling will always be heavily influenced by personal bias as it is pre-determined theatre. Not like we can argue team X scored more

i mean, you have people to this day arguing who was better Cena, Hogan, Rock or SCSA

now throw Flair, Dusty in the mix and some 70s, 80s fans and you’ll see some real fireworks


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

The Wood said:


> Yeah, his desire to make this Rhodes vs. McMahon was kind of cute at the start, but he’s starting to resemble the thing that he apparently hates. You’ve got Triple H, you had Double J, and now youve
> 
> 
> 
> ...


just cause they can go and are in wwe doesn't mean they're great and doesn't automatically make them better performers then people outside wwe. doesn't mean Roman, Rollins, Wyatt(who they've botched multiple times), Brock, or anybody else makes them a better performer.

and im not talking about star power or popularity because if you are in wwe you have more eyes on you and that doesn't make you a star, im talking about someone who is great at every aspect of wrestling at the moment and it's absurd to think otherwise. your 'reality' doesn't equal a fact. Cody has been having great matches since leaving wwe. his match vs Dustin was better then anything Brock or Orton have done in a long time. the build up to his match with MJF was great as well.

again, not talking about being a draw because if you're in wwe, you have more drawing power because they are a huge brand. doesn't make them better performers.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> any ‘evidence’ and ‘example’ in wrestling will always be heavily influenced by personal bias as it is pre-determined theatre. Not like we can argue team X scored more
> 
> i mean, you have people to this day arguing who was better Cena, Hogan, Rock or SCSA
> 
> now throw Flair, Dusty in the mix and some 70s, 80s fans and you’ll see some real fireworks


Yes, and you discuss whether this bias is influencing those choices. You keep leaving off the next step and ignoring that we do have metrics to determine who drew more money, who was around longer, etc. Just because there is some wiggle-room and gap for discussion, it doesn’t mean that every tool is useless.

Even in your example, you still have reasonable names up there. Would you put Trent Beretta up there? Of course not



alex0816 said:


> just cause they can go and are in wwe doesn't mean they're great and doesn't automatically make them better performers then people outside wwe. doesn't mean Roman, Rollins, Wyatt(who they've botched multiple times), Brock, or anybody else makes them a better performer.
> 
> and im not talking about star power or popularity because if you are in wwe you have more eyes on you and that doesn't make you a star, im talking about someone who is great at every aspect of wrestling at the moment and it's absurd to think otherwise. your 'reality' doesn't equal a fact. Cody has been having great matches since leaving wwe. his match vs Dustin was better then anything Brock or Orton have done in a long time. the build up to his match with MJF was great as well.
> 
> again, not talking about being a draw because if you're in wwe, you have more drawing power because they are a huge brand. doesn't make them better performers.


Lol, “just because they’re great, it doesn’t mean they’re great.” No, being in WWE doesn’t make them great. They’re in WWE because they are great though.

Cody has had solid matches. Some good. Dustin was great. Brock’s performance in the 2020 Royal Rumble was way above any of that. The same goes with Orton against Edge.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

The Wood said:


> Yes, and you discuss whether this bias is influencing those choices. You keep leaving off the next step and ignoring that we do have metrics to determine who drew more money, who was around longer, etc. Just because there is some wiggle-room and gap for discussion, it doesn’t mean that every tool is useless.
> 
> Even in your example, you still have reasonable names up there. Would you put Trent Beretta up there? Of course not
> 
> ...


You’ve piqued my morbid curiosity

who of today is your top 5

current, active and drawing


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

The Wood said:


> Yeah, his desire to make this Rhodes vs. McMahon was kind of cute at the start, but he’s starting to resemble the thing that he apparently hates. You’ve got Triple H, you had Double J, and now youve
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yea that is possible that Cody didn't want them in, esp. Orton. That is a shame because considering their past, it could have been a money feud. Can you imagine a former friend of Cody coming in trying to destroy the company that Cody has helped pulled off the ground? 

Bryan could still be a good get although I'm not sure when his contract runs out. 

Jarrett running TNA has made me realise that some guys that used to be B players on other places tend to act petty when they run their own show. JJ only allowed Sting to beat him for the belt so he could leave and focus on business when he should have done it to AJ and esp. Joe. JJ could have hired many guys over the years, esp. some that got released by the WWF/E and WCW guys that still had something to offer but he never did. Guys like Sean O'Haire and Mike Awesome, etc.... They would have been gold for TNA.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

The Wood said:


> Lol, “just because they’re great, it doesn’t mean they’re great.” No, being in WWE doesn’t make them great. They’re in WWE because they are great though.
> 
> Cody has had solid matches. Some good. Dustin was great. Brock’s performance in the 2020 Royal Rumble was way above any of that. The same goes with Orton against Edge.


so you're not great unless you currently are or have been in wwe. ok cool, gotcha. AJ Styles was never great until he went to wwe by that logic


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

alex0816 said:


> so you're not great unless you currently are or have been in wwe. ok cool, gotcha. AJ Styles was never great until he went to wwe by that logic


Wtf? No. Use some reading comprehension. Where did I ever say that?




LifeInCattleClass said:


> You’ve piqued my morbid curiosity
> 
> who of today is your top 5
> 
> current, active and drawing


I don’t like doing lists, but if I had to do a top five, it would probably look like something like: 

1. Brock Lesnar
2. Daniel Bryan
3. AJ Styles 
4. Randy Orton 
5. Kazuchika Okada

Probably. But I can’t speak to lucha libre and who is a big star and really tearing it up there.


----------



## alex0816 (Jul 27, 2011)

The Wood said:


> Wtf? No. Use some reading comprehension. Where did I ever say that?


"They're in wwe because they're great" 

just cause you're signed to wwe doesn't make you great


----------



## LongPig666 (Mar 27, 2019)

alex0816 said:


> just cause they can go and are in wwe doesn't mean they're great and doesn't automatically make them better performers then people outside wwe. doesn't mean Roman, Rollins, Wyatt(who they've botched multiple times), Brock, or anybody else makes them a better performer.
> 
> and im not talking about star power or popularity because if you are in wwe you have more eyes on you and that doesn't make you a star, im talking about someone who is great at every aspect of wrestling at the moment and it's absurd to think otherwise. your 'reality' doesn't equal a fact. Cody has been having great matches since leaving wwe. his match vs Dustin was better then anything Brock or Orton have done in a long time. the build up to his match with MJF was great as well.
> 
> again, not talking about being a draw because if you're in wwe, you have more drawing power because they are a huge brand. doesn't make them better performers.


See WWE as the 'Mickey Mouse Club'. Spawned a lot of very mediocre talent, that used its prestige and audience share, but ultimately crashed and burned because they were/are strangled by their massive limitations.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

alex0816 said:


> "They're in wwe because they're great"
> 
> just cause you're signed to wwe doesn't make you great


Yes, they’re in WWE because they’re great. That’s not the same thing as saying anyone in the WWE is great. Again, use some comprehension.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

The Wood said:


> Wtf? No. Use some reading comprehension. Where did I ever say that?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is a list of good wrestlers


----------



## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

*What's this you guys are talking about lists of what?? I'm not reading back pages I'm eye sight is shit enough,

Gracias @LifeInCattleClass 

.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Carter84 said:


> *What's this you guys are talking about lists of what?? I'm not reading back pages I'm eye sight is shit enough,
> 
> Gracias @LifeInCattleClass
> 
> .*


Don’t worry about it mate - just a conversation about nothing

welcome back


----------



## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

*Aww I'm bored thought it was something I could voice a idea or two about,

cheers mate.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Carter84 said:


> *Aww I'm bored thought it was something I could voice a idea or two about,
> 
> cheers mate.*


well, if you wanted 

we were discussing top 5 wrestlers today - not the past, just based on today’s criteria

like if you took ‘can draw money’ / ‘can talk’ / ‘can wrestle’ / ‘has charisma’

you know, just the top


----------



## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

*First ones a no brainer

Brock Lesnar, Even with his twice a year schedule has proved that less is actually better than more.

Second

Randy Orton

Has proved since his move to Raw that he is still the best heel in wwe, hell I'd say in any promotion, his promo last night was really sweet and showed why he is still at the top of his game.

Third

AJ Styles

Is Just in my little opinion the best wrestler in any promotion and he proved he belonged at the top ever since his wwe run started, For Undertaker to say so too and he has a lot more of platform than I could ever have dream of, said he should of been in wwe years ago as he would of drew back then too, a lot of money.

Fourth

Okada

I dont profess to know a lot about NJPW and never have but facts are facts the guy is a wrestling machine, never mind he can go for 30mins anytime and more.

Five

Chris Jericho

Out of all my favourites past and present he is still going strong and has proved time and again, rite him off at your peril, obviously this is the last run he is going to have and I don't think having him as AEW's first World Champion was a bad idea.


Peace.*


----------



## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

*Only Bryan And Jericho we had that varied mate, I never watched wwe in Bryan's prime but as I've been watching reruns I certainly see why he's liked by a lot of fans around the world, but I based it on his recent heel run or our lists would of been the same, his heel run was terrible, like orton is suited as a heel, jericho too, bryan is suited to be a face in my little opinion mate.*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Carter84 said:


> *Only Bryan And Jericho we had that varied mate, I never watched wwe in Bryan's prime but as I've been watching reruns I certainly see why he's liked by a lot of fans around the world, but I based it on his recent heel run or our lists would of been the same, his heel run was terrible, like orton is suited as a heel, jericho too, bryan is suited to be a face in my little opinion mate.*


Bryan is amazing - after Eddie G he is my fav wrestler

just nothing he is doing today makes me want to watch WWE

and I would remove Randy and put in Cody - don’t think Randy draws


----------



## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Bryan is amazing - after Eddie G he is my fav wrestler
> 
> just nothing he is doing today makes me want to watch WWE


*I get your point there, maybe when Keith Lee is Put on then I hope you start watching as he, AJ, braun Drew out the mens, Asuka, Rhea and IO are the only reason I still check to see if there on if not I miss the shows, I'm a huge Balor fan to but he needs to leave and start again somewhere else as he just got lost in the pack , it's happened to all Ex Bullet Club members except AJ .*


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Carter84 said:


> *I get your point there, maybe when Keith Lee is Put on then I hope you start watching as he, AJ, braun Drew out the mens, Asuka, Rhea and IO are the only reason I still check to see if there on if not I miss the shows, I'm a huge Balor fan to but he needs to leave and start again somewhere else as he just got lost in the pack , it's happened to all Ex Bullet Club members except AJ .*


Don’t know mate - I haven’t watched WWE / NXT in over a year now

it would get a miracle to get me watching again - especially with AEW around

although the longest break I ever took was 2 years, so never say never, eh?


----------



## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Don’t know mate - I haven’t watched WWE / NXT in over a year now
> 
> it would get a miracle to get me watching again - especially with AEW around
> 
> although the longest break I ever took was 2 years, so never say never, eh?



*I took a break in 2003/4 when SCSA The GOAT retired and stayed retired, thanks to him I found memories that I lost due to hogan being found out to being racist, I've only been watching full time again since 2016 and with AEW starting it peaked my interest no end as even after 4 years wwe was still the I'm vince show and nobody comes close to SCSA for me and never will. Keith Lee might as he stands out head and shoulders amongst any promotion as having the best all round In ring Ability, charisma and cuts sweet promos, even when Pentagon Jr has been lost in the pack and taz just makes Cage seem shit when he has all the same qualities as Keith Lee.*


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Nice 4 horseman reference in the MJF promo last night.

Very nuanced. 

For those who probably didn't hear it:

"Look where the old guard has gotten us...

War

Famine

Disease."


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Erik. said:


> Nice 4 horseman reference in the MJF promo last night.
> 
> Very nuanced.
> 
> ...


Good catch


----------



## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

*Didn't catch that until you referenced it @Erik. , good spot.

So they clean up on all the gold next to. FTR Tag titles, MJF World Champ, Cody TNT Champ.

Here's me thinking it would be someone else but you got me thinking now.*


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Is anyone genuinely pumped for a Horseman reunion?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Is anyone genuinely pumped for a Horseman reunion?


...... you are replying in a 20 page thread, where the OP - me - says he is hyped for a 4HM faction

c’mon Chip


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

It's coming together beautifully.

Arn sitting down with FTR. Mind blown.


----------



## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

Between Cody, Kenny, Page, The Bucks, and FTR, they’re doing a very good job of teasing several different directions they could go in.

Cody is a acting more heelish in his matches, Kenny is losing his mind one week and not trusting his partner the next, Page is distant from Kenny and the Bucks and is warming up to FTR, etc. Plus you have little cameos from Arn and Tully.

I genuinely don’t know what’s going to happen or how they will execute this but they‘ve done a great job of building intrigue.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

TD Stinger said:


> Between Cody, Kenny, Page, The Bucks, and FTR, they’re doing a very good job of teasing several different directions they could go in.
> 
> Cody is a acting more heelish in his matches, Kenny is losing his mind one week and not trusting his partner the next, Page is distant from Kenny and the Bucks and is warming up to FTR, etc. Plus you have little cameos from Arn and Tully.
> 
> I genuinely don’t know what’s going to happen or how they will execute this but they‘ve done a great job of building intrigue.


just think about that 12 man next week for 2 seconds

Hangman and Dark Order teases from long ago, now coming to a head

Hangman and FTR / Hangman and Kenny tension / Kenny and FTR tension / FTR and YB tension / YB and Hangman tension

Dark order and Colt‘s story

and nobody even noticed their 6th man is an unknown 
its not X


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

I like FTR but find them to be too bland for a 4 Horsemen stable. To me it always felt like 4 big stars with big personalities. Any iteration of Cody, MJF, Spears, Harwood and Wheeler would be void of about 2 superstars and Cody and MJF can't join forces after their feud, neither can Spears and Cody. It was too heated and wouldn't make any sense at all. If they want to get some guys over by working with Arn and Tully, then MJF, FTR and Hangman could work. 

I know people are excited about AEW doing the 4 Horsemen but can we at least try to be logical about this. Cody can not form a stable including MJF or Spears. Not if there's any truth behind the long term booking claim everyone falls back on.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

I think my main problem right now is that the conditions for having the 4H are just not there. Esp. in the case of Cody, he basically rules the planet, he has all these matches and beat everybody clean. He doesn't even have to resort to rule breaking. Omega and Page are still tag champs. Last night was really the only threat they had against the Dark Order. But again they defeated them and then FTR saved them. And anyway Brodie Lee is basiscally an incompetent leader. 

I wished they would have built something for months about Cody actually acting heelish. Then maybe having trouble with certain guys and nobody from the Elite is helping him. So he starts questioning his friends and that perhaps he need new friends. Maybe his turn could happen after he lost the TNT title(?)

But the whole teasing the 4H is stupid because it basically means that Cody and others want to do this just for fun. And it won't happen cause there's a need for it but because it's a new toy Cody wants to use. 

I thought the NWA did it perfectly with Nick Aldis and his formation of Strickly Business. You can see Corgan knows his shit and has watched the old NWA on tv. Hopefully AEW do not screw it up.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

I do not see Cody playing second fiddle to MJF or anyone in this stable, and I also do not see Cody not being a part of this...


----------



## Arm Drag! (Jul 21, 2020)

Wolf Mark said:


> Yea that is *possible that Cody didn't want them in, esp. Orton*. That is a shame because considering their past, it could have been a money feud. Can you imagine a former friend of Cody coming in trying to destroy the company that Cody has helped pulled off the ground?
> 
> Bryan could still be a good get although I'm not sure when his contract runs out.
> 
> Jarrett running TNA has made me realise that some guys that used to be B players on other places tend to act petty when they run their own show. JJ only allowed Sting to beat him for the belt so he could leave and focus on business when he should have done it to AJ and esp. Joe. JJ could have hired many guys over the years, esp. some that got released by the WWF/E and WCW guys that still had something to offer but he never did. Guys like Sean O'Haire and Mike Awesome, etc.... They would have been gold for TNA.


Didnt Randy dick Brandi?


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

Arm Drag! said:


> Didnt Randy dick Brandi?


Really? holly crap


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Arm Drag! said:


> Didnt Randy dick Brandi?


Cody is a Rhodes at the end of the day, so he likely sat in the corner jerkin his gerkin while Orton spewed his venom.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

*I DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS THING RIGHT HERE*

This gave me shills. 

Alright AEW you got me. Don't screw this up.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Tully Blanchard name drop from MJF....


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Erik. said:


> Tully Blanchard name drop from MJF....


They really are stretching this out, aren’t they?

My money is still on Cody somehow - Nightmare Family can’t get it done against Dark Order

So... he finds new friends

Hangman will not be in the 4HM


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> They really are stretching this out, aren’t they?
> 
> My money is still on Cody somehow - Nightmare Family can’t get it done against Dark Order
> 
> ...


MJF, FTR and Tessa, in my opinion.

A modern twist on things. The old school heels in MJF and FTR but with the modern day woman wrestler (who'd never get a chance in that sort of group as a competitor back in the 80s etc)


----------



## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> They really are stretching this out, aren’t they?
> 
> My money is still on Cody somehow - Nightmare Family can’t get it done against Dark Order
> 
> ...


I hope Hangman isn't but last night's booking, it is lazy booking by whomever. I think it will be Spear FTR and Hangman, but spears will be replaced by a returning cody.


----------



## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

Erik. said:


> MJF, FTR and Tessa, in my opinion.
> 
> A modern twist on things. The old school heels in MJF and FTR but with the modern day woman wrestler (who'd never get a chance in that sort of group as a competitor back in the 80s etc)


What about Spears?


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Carter84 said:


> What about Spears?


They beat the shit out of him to prove a point with the visual of a bloodied Spears laying there whilst they rip the glove off his hand.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Carter84 said:


> I hope Hangman isn't but last night's booking, it is lazy booking by whomever. I think it will be Spear FTR and Hangman, but spears will be replaced by a returning cody.


lazy booking? On hangman? Mate - it is a year long story they are telling / its the most opposite of lazy you can get in wrestling

especially since i’m sure hangman is not turning


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Erik. said:


> MJF, FTR and Tessa, in my opinion.
> 
> A modern twist on things. The old school heels in MJF and FTR but with the modern day woman wrestler (who'd never get a chance in that sort of group as a competitor back in the 80s etc)


ehhh..... MJF has his own thing - what happens to Wardlow and Lee?

Tessa.... on the way to WWE

i’m sticking with Cody, Spears, FTR


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i’m sticking with Cody, Spears, FTR


Then I am out.

I can't think of a more disappointing faction.


----------



## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lazy booking? On hangman? Mate - it is a year long story they are telling / its the most opposite of lazy you can get in wrestling
> 
> especially since i’m sure hangman is not turning


I'm just on about last night's not the last year mate, that was it.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

I think Spears will be affiliated with 4HM, but not necessarily part of it. He could be the DARK affiliate.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Carter84 said:


> I'm just on about last night's not the last year mate, that was it.


the grabbing of the leg? Or the drink in the face segment?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Erik. said:


> Then I am out.
> 
> I can't think of a more disappointing faction.


really? I’m hyped for them

different strokes i guess

more than likely we won’t either get what we like


----------



## Freezer Geezer (Jul 15, 2020)

Didn't Tully say something to Arn about gallivanting around with the son of Dusty a couple of weeks back during the tag team appreciation stuff. For that reason alone it wouldn't make much sense for me. How about Nick Aldis given the NWA seem to be open to working with AEW? It would make more sense and would be a more natural feud for Cody given their history.

If Cody joins them I'm not too sure where he can go with it in the short to medium term given the chances of Omega turning soon too. Although I guess it could work if they don't go the fully fledged heel route with them against the dark order first off?


----------



## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the grabbing of the leg? Or the drink in the face segment?


The bucks throwing drink I his face and why grab balding bucks leg mate I dont get it?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Carter84 said:


> The bucks throwing drink I his face and why grab balding bucks leg mate I dont get it?


lol - ok - i get you

well, we’ll see next week i suppose

ps> he’s not turning


----------



## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> lol - ok - i get you
> 
> well, we’ll see next week i suppose
> 
> ps> he’s not turning


Hi cattle, what you up today?? 

I hope not mate, he is great as a tweener!!

Going to the club me Like, have a great day man!!

🤪🤪🤪🤪🤜🤛🙌🤝🤝🤝🤟🤟🤟👍👍


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Carter84 said:


> Hi cattle, what you up today??
> 
> I hope not mate, he is great as a tweener!!
> 
> ...


clubs are open?

i’m gonna hunt a steak to eat and a pint to drink


----------



## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> clubs are open?
> 
> i’m gonna hunt a steak to eat and a pint to drink


Nah the local workman's club mate, pints are fresh As out mate, what kind of steak?? Sounds cool mate, nice with thrice cooked chips with T-Bone steak medium, with garlic and herb dip, nice fresh glass of Rijoa , cleanses the pallet, im back at work next week got my students in there second year at college, then I'm back at my head chefs job Tuesday from 5-2am, can't wait as I've had a good few weeks off, well 6 lol!


----------



## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Carter84 said:


> The bucks throwing drink I his face and why grab balding bucks leg mate I dont get it?


Didn't want him & omega vs bucks because he thought it would break up elite


----------



## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

Pippen94 said:


> Didn't want him & omega vs bucks because he thought it would break up elite


Well it backfired didn't it?? The Elite hasn't even been together for,ages, Marty didn't sign for some reason , he was there when Adam Cole left, Cody Came. They done AEW ! Cody started the Nepotism Family, Hangman was in and out, Kenny never been the same since losingto mox, seems like he is going back to the cleaner gimmick doesn't, cody seems like he is turning heel, then Thursday hangman holds balding bucks leg, Balding buck and road warrior buck throw whiskey in hangmans face ( if that was real it would sting like fuck ) they throw hangman out the elite, no sign of omega or cody.

Bar the shit booking last night , the elite has been great the story telling and matches spot on too.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Carter84 said:


> Nah the local workman's club mate, pints are fresh As out mate, what kind of steak?? Sounds cool mate, nice with thrice cooked chips with T-Bone steak medium, with garlic and herb dip, nice fresh glass of Rijoa , cleanses the pallet, im back at work next week got my students in there second year at college, then I'm back at my head chefs job Tuesday from 5-2am, can't wait as I've had a good few weeks off, well 6 lol!


you just described the perfect steak 

but i’m thinking of a well marbled ribeye or if i can find my fav cut - a nice picanha / compound garlic / herb butter on top maybe?

glad you’re getting back to the job mate / the world needs good chefs


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## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you just described the perfect steak
> 
> but i’m thinking of a well marbled ribeye or if i can find my fav cut - a nice picanha / compound garlic / herb butter on top maybe?
> 
> glad you’re getting back to the job mate / the world needs good chefs



The longer the steak is hung the better the steak, yeah mate ht sometimes the garlic butter on top can be a bit over powering so I put it on the side just to dip my steak and chips in dip, some 0eole think the more expensive the cut the better the taste, not necessarily if the steak has come from a good farm and done right all cuts are lush, but i get this at work sirloin ks the best it isn't, t-bone is, like it is so flavoursome and the fat, marbling is great, I seen idiots getting and asking for well done steak, im like well if u wanna waste ur money fine, but i always tell the front of house to explain stuff to customers and they do in great detail , but i get the odd div who don't listen, im li,e fine , fuck them. 

How's things Ben toing down London mate?


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## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

Pippen94 said:


> Didn't want him & omega vs bucks because he thought it would break up elite


Did u read what I put pip?


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Carter84 said:


> The longer the steak is hung the better the steak, yeah mate ht sometimes the garlic butter on top can be a bit over powering so I put it on the side just to dip my steak and chips in dip, some 0eole think the more expensive the cut the better the taste, not necessarily if the steak has come from a good farm and done right all cuts are lush, but i get this at work sirloin ks the best it isn't, t-bone is, like it is so flavoursome and the fat, marbling is great, I seen idiots getting and asking for well done steak, im like well if u wanna waste ur money fine, but i always tell the front of house to explain stuff to customers and they do in great detail , but i get the odd div who don't listen, im li,e fine , fuck them.
> 
> How's things Ben toing down London mate?


its been fine - the moving from Hotel to hotel is just getting irritating - its been over 6 months now. I miss home and i miss my kitchen and cooking 

i have a big list of kitchen gadgets i want to get. I’m definitely getting a dry-ager - to make my steaks 45 day to 9- day aged

and i’ve been thinking of getting a dehydrator for spices and i’ve been getting very interested in flavour infusion - so, need powders for that

and i also want a proper break maker 

so.... i’m just making lists of what i want to get when i’m finally back home


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## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Carter84 said:


> Did u read what I put pip?


Not really


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## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> its been fine - the moving from Hotel to hotel is just getting irritating - its been over 6 months now. I miss home and i miss my kitchen and cooking
> 
> i have a big list of kitchen gadgets i want to get. I’m definitely getting a dry-ager - to make my steaks 45 day to 9- day aged
> 
> ...



Glad your getting a new crib, bet the rent is expensive mate. I bought a two bedroom apartment up here in newcastle next to the angel of the angel of the north a couple of years back, i sold it in March, bought a new house next to my mams , i have two workmates renting it off me as there nice people, my house is much better and more spacious, when I got the second job last year teaching my stiudents at catering college has been great, I got a young lad a job at my work as he was struggling, now he is back kn his feet, when I started 5his second job I said to the owner of my restaurant if I can help up and coming guys and gals to work in my i dusty it would be a great feeling, mate he has the most passion I e seen since I was young what a chef he is going to be, 

Has your work been paying your hotel expenses?


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## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

Pippen94 said:


> Not really


OK. Fair enough young pip


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## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Carter84 said:


> Well it backfired didn't it?? The Elite hasn't even been together for,ages, Marty didn't sign for some reason , he was there when Adam Cole left, Cody Came. They done AEW ! Cody started the Nepotism Family, Hangman was in and out, Kenny never been the same since losingto mox, seems like he is going back to the cleaner gimmick doesn't, cody seems like he is turning heel, then Thursday hangman holds balding bucks leg, Balding buck and road warrior buck throw whiskey in hangmans face ( if that was real it would sting like fuck ) they throw hangman out the elite, no sign of omega or cody.
> 
> Bar the shit booking last night , the elite has been great the story telling and matches spot on too.


Bte shows elite is pretty much omega, page & bucks these days. Nick & Matt as voting block can remove page. Of course omega was absent so we can get his reaction next week?? Horseman thing moving slow but that's a good thing.
I still haven't read any of your other posts syk


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## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

Pippen94 said:


> Bte shows elite is pretty much omega, page & bucks these days. Nick & Matt as voting block can remove page. Of course omega was absent so we can get his reaction next week?? Horseman thing moving slow but that's a good thing.
> I still haven't read any of your other posts syk


I liked the omega and page segment when laundry shook hangmans hand was funny AF !! Do u watch sammy Guevara youtube ?? If you haven't its really good lad, check this weeks one, Ricky starks segment is the funniest I've seen before


Nice one pip


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## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

Like I said in another thread, Hangman joining any kind of group with FTR seems unlikely now.

FTR clearly manipulated and used Hangman while he was in a vulnerable (drunk) state which caused the Bucks to officially kick him out of The Elite. Now, I guess that Hangman, who is still lost and confused, could still join FTR and Cody as they continue to manipulate him, but how far can you take the manipulation angle before Hangman starts to look stupid?

I would say that after FTR beat Hangman and Kenny at All Out, Hangman tries to congratulate them only for them to drop Hangman. This could be saved for the post All Out Dynamite. So in the span of a few weeks, Bucks leave him behind, FTR reveal they were just using him, and Kenny probably leaves him too to deal with his own stuff, leaving Hangman a broken man, all alone.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Carter84 said:


> Has your work been paying your hotel expenses?


in a way... it’s my own business, so i force it to pay for the expenses

but its still my money 😅 

least i can claim VAT


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## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> in a way... it’s my own business, so i force it to pay for the expenses
> 
> but its still my money 😅
> 
> least i can claim VAT


That's the one, but this shitty conservative has a ok tax policy for small to medium businesses, the only good police they have though haha.


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## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> in a way... it’s my own business, so i force it to pay for the expenses
> 
> but its still my money 😅
> 
> least i can claim VAT


Check out gennaro cotaldo restaurant called " Passione " best Italian cook book aswell, I went to Jamie's Italian up here but was really disappointed, it closed, he taught Jamie after he left the Riverside years ago , about italian food , mate I've turned some of my food into my own style after reading his book, invented loads of great food , imhighly recommend his book!


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Carter84 said:


> Check out gennaro cotaldo restaurant called " Passione " best Italian cook book aswell, I went to Jamie's Italian up here but was really disappointed, it closed, he taught Jamie after he left the Riverside years ago , about italian food , mate I've turned some of my food into my own style after reading his book, invented loads of great food , imhighly recommend his book!


yeah - Jamie’s italian is not to great anymore

i went to Ramsey’s bread street the other day - also mediocre

think i’m off to guacho today - Argentina steaks


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## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

I might be the only one that doesnt want a 4 horseman stable.

To me groups from the past should be left in the past because you can never get back the magic of the original one's


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Dizzie said:


> I might be the only one that doesnt want a 4 horseman stable.
> 
> To me groups from the past should be left in the past because you can never get back the magic of the original one's


many many of us never saw the originals, but know the legends

i definitely want a 4HM in my lifetime (the prior ones were in my lifetime, but i did not have access)

and watching old wresting does nothing for me


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

After the last page of comments, I just really want a ribeye now.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Lheurch said:


> After the last page of comments, I just really want a ribeye now.


400g, on the bone ribeye

flame grilled

boy oh boy


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 400g, on the bone ribeye
> 
> flame grilled
> 
> boy oh boy


What is your grill type of choice? I am grilling chicken today with the wife, but a ribeye sounds tempting.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Lheurch said:


> What is your grill type of choice? I am grilling chicken today with the wife, but a ribeye sounds tempting.


i prep my steak in a sous vide or as a reverse sear to get them perfect internal temp when i want to be fancy

Then searing on a hot ‘braai’ for a minute or two

which is a south african style bbq - charcoal, fire and steel baby 

either that -

or wood braai - watching the wood slowly get hotter over a couple of hours as you sip on a couple of beers and watch rugby - a 8 hour affair with mates










add some ‘boerewors’ - south african beef sausage translated to ‘farmer’s sausage’ And chicken wings as your ‘vegetable’


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i prep my steak in a sous vide or as a reverse sear to get them perfect internal temp when i want to be fancy
> 
> Then searing on a hot ‘braai’ for a minute or two
> 
> ...


That sounds awesome! I have never had South African style but it is definitely going on the list if I can find anything authentic locally.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Imma be honest with you mate - when i ‘braai’ - i don’t fuck about

that’s 4 kgs Of pure beef right there


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Lheurch said:


> That sounds awesome! I have never had South African style but it is definitely going on the list if I can find anything authentic locally.


if you ever find yourself in South Africa - i’ll make it my mission to fatten you up.... its part of our culture


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

We might not always agree on the wrasslin but LifeInCattleClass certainly can cook a piece of meat. Dat beef.


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## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> yeah - Jamie’s italian is not to great anymore
> 
> i went to Ramsey’s bread street the other day - also mediocre
> 
> think i’m off to guacho today - Argentina steaks


Mans had a good night I hope ! Just got in nice J bed time !


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## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

Carter84 said:


> Mans had a good night I hope ! Just got in nice J bed time !


Haha hope ur doing good


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