# The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain (Brexit Wins)



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

@CJ; @DesolationRow (I know you aren't British Drow but considering how conversations I think you will find this most interesting).


In June the United Kingdom, my country will be voting on what is probably the biggest election in my lifetime: Whether we stay part of the unelected, unaccountable European superstate project known as the EU or whether we leave and start taking our democracy and sovereignty back.

I urge any British user here before voting to watch this very compelling and revealing video on how the EU actually works before voting. This is beyond party politics or whether we like our politicians back at home, it's about saving what's little left of our liberty and freedom before it's too late. It's time to take our country back.


----------



## CJ (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*



L-DOPA said:


> @CJ; @DesolationRow (I know you aren't British Drow but considering how conversations I think you will find this most interesting).
> 
> 
> In June the United Kingdom, my country will be voting on what is probably the biggest election in my lifetime: Whether we stay part of the unelected, unaccountable European superstate project known as the EU or whether we leave and start taking our democracy and sovereignty back.
> ...


I'll make sure to watch it when I get a chance :bayley2


----------



## J-B (Oct 26, 2015)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

I'm voting to leave for obvious reasons. Sick and tired of it.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE (Sep 12, 2013)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

I used to live there and would want no part of the EU.


----------



## J-B (Oct 26, 2015)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

.


----------



## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

I didn't watch, but Im with the British who want out. The EU is a overpowered, corrupt entity that has turned Europe into a shithole.


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

Whole referendum is a rigged joke and a waste of money

Tons of people who are politically illiterate will be scared into voting to stay cus the other outcome is ruh ruh racist and we won't be allowed to leave our houses if we leave fpalm

And if out wins they'll run the whole thing again or go back to the negotiating table and compromise more by bending over to emperor merkel and the turk savages

Won't be participating

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk


----------



## CJ (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*



Umbreon said:


> I'm voting to leave for obvious reasons. Sick and tired of it.


Yeah same here. 



THE SHIV said:


> I used to live there and would want no part of the EU.


I wonder if you're eligible for a postal vote :hmm


----------



## J-B (Oct 26, 2015)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*



CJ said:


> Yeah same here.
> 
> 
> 
> :bayley2


Any reasons in particular? I'd just be interested to know from a person from NI.


----------



## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

I'm going to piss someone off but the EU is for the best

most European nations have zero political sway and just don't the juice needed to be listened to

The UK, Germany and France will get a nod during meetings just because of a grandfather clause but European interests will have zero pull in global development without being united


----------



## themuel1 (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

Whether or not we leave the EU, we will still have an inept government full of people that know nothing about the roles they're in.

As for the EU being a corrupt entity, need I remind you that we have a Prime minister that is involved in Tax havens as well as had a Labour government that fabricated a reason to get into Iraq so certain people could get contracts for companies that they sit on the boards of/are shareholders of. 

There are a lot of politically illiterate people but that goes for both sides of the argument. The amount of people that just want to leave because of immigration....We won't be closing our borders if we leave and we are already heavily overpopulated. 

As for what I think, I don't see that either way will change anything. Inept leadership either way.


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*



stevefox1200 said:


> I'm going to piss someone off but the EU is for the best
> 
> most European nations have zero political sway and just don't the juice needed to be listened to
> 
> The UK, Germany and France will get a nod during meetings just because of a grandfather clause but European interests will have zero pull in global development without being united


European interests such as letting ISIS and economic migrants invade our country by posing as refugees?

I'm British, I don't care about European interests or "global development". Open borders is insanity and so are all these EU regulations that nobody voted for.


----------



## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*



NeverDrewADime said:


> European interests such as letting ISIS and economic migrants invade our country by posing as refugees?
> 
> I'm British, I don't care about European interests or "global development". Open borders is insanity and so are all these EU regulations that nobody voted for.


Lets say for instance "Johnnystan" wants to invade its neighbors and murder the fuck out of them over a grudge from the 1600s

Unless you are a "not my problem" type people you would likely want to stop 

Johnnystan relies on exports to Europe to stay functional 

The EU can do a European wide embargo and make Johnnystan think twice

If only the UK and France are willing to do it then the invasion happens


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

Thank you so very much for the mention, @L-DOPA!

I was mulling over creating a "Brexit" thread here but chose to wait until we were a little closer to the day of the referendum, June 23. Looking at this thread, however, you did the right thing by firing up the discussion now, and I look forward to watching the video you embedded when I have the chance.

The European Union is nothing but bad news, which is hardly surprising since it was something of a major brainchild of the CIA following World War II. 

Best of luck to the anti-EU forces in Britain. I fear this will not end happily even if the vote goes your way; as with past elections, as mentioned by @CJ on my wall, the "masters" of this particular "universe" will see to it that elections continue on and on, until the "correct" decision is reached. Or the supra-national banking and corporate elites intertwined with many of the worst actors in British government will see to it that the election is rendered meaningless, outright. 

And of course the U.S. government is flexing its considerable muscles to attempt to maintain the _status quo_ with its protectorates, with Obama repeatedly warning against you daring to make the "wrong choice." 

Thank you once again for the mention for the delightful thread you have created! I look forward to returning to it in the near future!


----------



## J-B (Oct 26, 2015)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

The "why you should vote to stay in the EU" 30 second unskippable ads on Youtube make me want to rip my face off.




Just thought it was appropiate for this thread, y'know.....


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*



stevefox1200 said:


> Lets say for instance "Johnnystan" wants to invade its neighbors and murder the fuck out of them over a grudge from the 1600s
> 
> Unless you are a "not my problem" type people you would likely want to stop
> 
> ...


You don't need to be in the EU to cancel Johnnystans exports


----------



## ka4life1 (Mar 2, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

I will be voting to stay in.

Don't want to offend or bore anyone though,
so i shall keep my reasons to myself.


----------



## themuel1 (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*



Umbreon said:


> The "why you should vote to stay in the EU" 30 second unskippable ads on Youtube make me want to rip my face off.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Surely ripping your face off would be insanely painful and you'd still be able to see the ads? 

Ripping your eyeballs out would be more effective in this case, although the EU Anti eyeball ripping out charter passed last week means you can't actually do that....


----------



## themuel1 (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*



ka4life1 said:


> I will be voting to stay in.
> 
> Don't want to offend or bore anyone though,
> so i shall keep my reasons to myself.


This is a thread of discussion. Your reasons won't be deemed offensive and will hardly be boring given the subject of the thread. 

I'm undecided as I have no faith in the political system any more, anywhere.


----------



## CJ (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*



Umbreon said:


> Any reasons in particular? I'd just be interested to know from a person from NI.


Probably for a lot of the same reasons as you, but it mainly boils down to me not wanting to be part of a European superstate.


----------



## ka4life1 (Mar 2, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*



themuel1 said:


> This is a thread of discussion. Your reasons won't be deemed offensive and will hardly be boring given the subject of the thread.
> 
> I'm undecided as I have no faith in the political system any more, anywhere.



I understand, I find discussions like these just end up in stereotyping and insults though,

I agree with your stance on the Political system, I myself share the same opinion.


----------



## HateaHeel (Aug 20, 2015)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

I'm voting leave.

Never in my existence has the EU ever cared about my opinions on any matters concerning committee leaders/legislation/treaties, so why do people honestly believe we'll ever be able to "reform" it? To have a desire to reform something (this desire is strong even in the pro camp) suggests how broken something is and can't continue on. I would love for full accountability of government issues to come back home and have that government face the music when we are displeased rather than thousands of miles away.


----------



## paladin errant (Apr 23, 2016)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

as a french,i'm for the brexit,please leave the EU..

for two reasons:

1: if it works,it's an open door for my country to leave the UE too,Brussels is entirely corrupted by lobbies and the people of each country can not say anything,their leaders are doing their little shena....ns between them.how the EU was created is complete nonsense from the beginning.

2: when the UK entered in the EU,they chose all the advantages (especially keeping heir own money) but not the disadvantages,it's not fair for the others members.

just my point of view.


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

It's probably too late for the UK anyway, but might as well try to limit the damage by cutting ties with suicidal Europe while you still can.


----------



## FriedTofu (Sep 29, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

As mentioned, Britain got all of the perks of being in the EU with few of the sacrifice other nations had to endure to enter. Seems a little rash to want a Brexit because of immigration.


----------



## Blackbeard (Apr 23, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

I'll be voting to stay in :brodgers


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

Why anyone would want to stay in is beyond me, you got a bunch of jerks telling you all what to do and how to do it. Germany pretty much seems to threaten and try to run everything. If you stay have fun with Ukraine and Turkey getting visas and turkey selling it's citizenship to people willing to pay the price. The EU is corrupt to the core.


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*



ka4life1 said:


> I will be voting to stay in.
> 
> Don't want to offend or bore anyone though,
> so i shall keep my reasons to myself.


Thread is for discussion so post away. I won't be offended, I'll just disagree with you .


----------



## J-B (Oct 26, 2015)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*



FriedTofu said:


> Seems a little rash to want a Brexit because of immigration.


I strongly disagree.


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

As a fellow human being, I should support those who want to leave EU, but as a member of another EU country who would want to come and live in UK in the future, I want to selfishly think about myself. I'm torn.


----------



## TheJack (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*



paladin errant said:


> as a french,i'm for the brexit,please leave the EU..
> 
> for two reasons:
> 
> ...



That depends on the country. Im glad that Germany has the euro, our economy wouldve taken a big hit if we still had our old currency.


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*



TheJack said:


> That depends on the country. Im glad that Germany has the euro, our economy wouldve taken a big hit if we still had our old currency.


Isn't this good and bad? I work with a Bosnian who said switching to the Euro was bad because it made everything more expensive even in poor countries so people couldn't afford as much. Whereas before they could with their old money since it went by their economy and not a wide economy. I know the Brit's were smart for not switching from the pound.


----------



## Jackal (Nov 6, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

I won't be voting. I don't feel strongly enough either way. The OP want's to 'take our country back', which is fine, only that it's 20 years too late. 

This may come across a little controverial to fellow Brits, and generally quite cunty, but to be perfectly honest i really don't possess much, if any pride and patriotism when it comes to England. 'Great Britain', whatever that's suppose to mean, is a mess. The middle classes in this country are an embarrassment. The Jeremy Kyle and TOWIE culture is embarrassing. Immigration is embarrassing. The idea of a Royal Family is embarrassing. And the rich live in a different, separate, protected reality. A reality and world of their own, where the walls will never be breached. It's the working class who are completely fucked over in this country. They contribute to society, pay taxes, and help fill the pockets of the rich. Yet when the working class ask for help, need Council housing (which they are fully prepared to pay for), try to get their child in the best school etc they are shunned and pushed aside. This all goes on whilst the politicians are sat in their Ivory Towers satisfying their own personal agenda's. It's all fucked up, use the system and you are rewarded.

I guess my mini rant would suggest a vote for leaving. But again, it's hard to be optimistic either way when the people running the country seem to have lost all common sense and rationale. Their sense of reality is different to those living actual realistic lives!

(i've not watched the vid, but i will another time.)


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

Gonna respond to a bunch of posts here.



Father Ted said:


> Whole referendum is a rigged joke and a waste of money
> 
> Tons of people who are politically illiterate will be scared into voting to stay cus the other outcome is ruh ruh racist and we won't be allowed to leave our houses if we leave fpalm
> 
> ...


Unfortunately I do understand that sentiment considering the EU has a history of forcing countries for re-referendums are certain issues. Ireland and the Netherlands being the most infamous examples.

Still I would put it forward to you that it is better to try and be pushed back than to not push at all. I'm standing for what I believe in regardless of the very possible outcomes.



stevefox1200 said:


> I'm going to piss someone off but the EU is for the best
> 
> most European nations have zero political sway and just don't the juice needed to be listened to
> 
> The UK, Germany and France will get a nod during meetings just because of a grandfather clause but European interests will have zero pull in global development without being united


I've heard this argument before from you and I have never understood how you would think that somehow a smaller nation being part of a larger political union which is more centralized and controlled from the top in Brussels would have more political autonomy and influence in the world.

When you have a commission which decides all of the regulatory common policies such as agriculture, fishing, steel works etc. all of which was outlined in the video I posted; which is imposed on a EU member that as a country itself cannot change through it's own parliament or by getting rid of those who wrote the legislation to begin with then how on earth do they have more autonomy or sway as a nation? And that's just one example.

Trade which with globalization would be seen as an international issue is at the heart of politics on a world level. How does a nation which is stuck in an economic block that cannot make it's own trade agreements as it is bound by EU legislation have more autonomy and influence on a global level? It is entirely the opposite case as their hands are tied behind their back by being exclusively part of the European single market without having the opportunity to broaden their horizons and do business with the parts of the world that growing the fastest...those being in South and South Eastern Asia, the likes of China, India, South Korea, Hong Kong and Singapore to name but a few examples. And that is not counting the fact Europe has the only trade block that is stagnating and not growing.

The migrant crisis, the biggest example of where common policies from a European Central body leaves smaller sovereign states with less power than before. The common immigration and asylum policy left countries like Hungary and Slovakia who couldn't cope with a vast amount of people coming into their country between a rock and hard place. Hungary and Slovakia wanted autonomy and control over the situations in their countries, they wanted to control their borders and stop the huge numbers coming in from Syria and other parts of the middle east and yet it was EU common policy on an international crisis and affair which stopped those countries from enacting their own policy! And you somehow equate this to them having more political sway on a international and potentially global affair?

Fiscal policy, thankfully something which does not effect the UK, but those who are bound by the EU cannot even set it's own interest rates and is bound by the economic policies of the European Central Bank. You only have to look at Greece who had a government elected based on ending the borrow and bail out racket whose own people voted overwhelmingly against another bail out package and who in their situation did not want to be forced to raise taxes yet the EU forced the left of center government to go against the same measures that were voted against. Now you may argue that has nothing to do with world affairs but the point is, if Greece can't even have autonomy and sway over their own country what on earth makes you think they have any sway on a world level being part of an ever closer European Superstate?

The problem also is that this is just the beginning, the EU in recent years has already put forward it's own foreign policy and wants to create it's own army and if that happens then in matters of war and international relations beyond trade and immigration then you will see countries especially like Hungary and Slovakia having no autonomy and sway whatsoever. As a people, as individual supposedly sovereign countries that govern it's own people, make it's own laws and policy and more importantly for it's people to be able to hold leaders and politicians into account and enact change through democratic means would be all but gone.




themuel1 said:


> Whether or not we leave the EU, we will still have an inept government full of people that know nothing about the roles they're in.
> 
> As for the EU being a corrupt entity, need I remind you that we have a Prime minister that is involved in Tax havens as well as had a Labour government that fabricated a reason to get into Iraq so certain people could get contracts for companies that they sit on the boards of/are shareholders of.
> 
> ...


Tony Benn who is not a politician I share a lot of common ground with but one who I agree with in terms of the EU was once famously quoted in stating that *"I'd rather have a bad parliament than a good king"*

What he was referring to was the dangers of unchecked power which the EU bodies and commissions have over our lives as a sovereign people. You can have a horrible government under a sovereign democratic nation but at least under our system without the EU which by the way isn't perfect and certainly I'd like to change it as well we have the opportunity to change it so it's potentially better. Under the EU you cannot do that, so whilst I sympathize with some of what you are saying I don't think these are meaningful reasons to sweep the issues under the carpet. If give up power because you agree on one or a few issues at the time the chances are it will be a very long time before you get it back...if at all.

Having an inept government at home does not excuse being complacent about having an even larger unelected more dangerous government having large power and persuasion in the EU. Yes, we have politicians and parties who are inept, some of whom are corrupt however the way to counteract this and other corruption and lobbying which is happening both at home and the EU which effects us is to bring the power and influence closer to the people. You can only do that by devolution, decentralization of power and in the EU's case taking away that power altogether.

You don't take away everything you have stated in one go by leaving the EU but it certainly takes a big step forward in dealing with the problems you state. It is much easier to hold our own politicians to account the more power is brought back to the people of the said nation involved. By having a state on top of our government dictating the rules of the game it becomes much harder for the ordinary citizen to dictate any meaningful change. The more and more power is taken away from the people at home to a larger more bureaucratic government, the easier it becomes for politicians and big corporations to collude and thus some of the problems you describe would and have become much worse.





Miss Sally said:


> Isn't this good and bad? I work with a Bosnian who said switching to the Euro was bad because it made everything more expensive even in poor countries so people couldn't afford as much. Whereas before they could with their old money since it went by their economy and not a wide economy. I know the Brit's were smart for not switching from the pound.


I'd argue on the whole the Euro has been absolutely horrible for Europe. Countries for which it was suited to for sure have done reasonably well but then for countries which aren't suited for the model such as Greece, Ireland, Portugal and Spain it's been disastrous. It is another example of where Central Banking this time on a Continental scale has helped to wreck the economies of many different countries.

Having one currency and one set interest rate and economic policy for 20+ different countries with vastly different economic structures and fluctuations in terms of growth is bound to have a negative effect on those where centralized policy making from the EU bank does not fit the current economic climate of said country. It is the biggest example of where central planning of economies does not work.


----------



## paladin errant (Apr 23, 2016)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*



Miss Sally said:


> Isn't this good and bad? I work with a Bosnian who said switching to the Euro was bad because it made everything more expensive even in poor countries so people couldn't afford as much. Whereas before they could with their old money since it went by their economy and not a wide economy. I know the Brit's were smart for not switching from the pound.


you're 100% right...even the rich countries like France or Germany suffered from the lost of their own money..but politicians of these countries are too proud (and are ashamed of having failed) to say it and hide the truth to the European Commission.
In France,we have never been so poor people,increasing debt and taxes kill jobs,our insurance coverage cost more and more expensive,only the state officials are doing well.


----------



## Café de René (Sep 27, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

People thinking "it's too late" do not seem to realise that the EU and the US have even bigger plans for the burial of your liberty and sovereignty, the first one being that horrible TTIP treaty that they are going to force on us no matter the referendums and protests against it.


----------



## Narcisse (Nov 24, 2015)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

I am undecided as to what I will vote, but erring on the side of leaving the EU. In the whole of my living memory the UK has been governed by best case worst case scenario political parties, it literally doesn't matter which party you vote for as they are all corrupt and lie. The biggest joke was the Labour party coming to power after 18 years of Conservative party rule and actually making things WORSE. I can't see good enough reasons to stay, but I'm absolutely sure that it will be working class British people as a whole that will end up getting fucked over whatever the outcome, it has always been the case. It is impossible to have any faith or optimism that things will improve.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*



Father Ted said:


> Whole referendum is a rigged joke and a waste of money
> 
> Tons of people who are politically illiterate will be scared into voting to stay cus the other outcome is ruh ruh racist and we won't be allowed to leave our houses if we leave fpalm
> 
> ...


My apologies for somehow missing this post as you offered some thoughts which overlap with my own earlier post. 

At the same time, I do agree with this post, speaking as an American and watching the drama develop from afar:



Café de René said:


> People thinking "it's too late" do not seem to realise that the EU and the US have even bigger plans for the burial of your liberty and sovereignty, the first one being that horrible TTIP treaty that they are going to force on us no matter the referendums and protests against it.


Indeed, it can almost always get worse.


----------



## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*



Buzzard Follower said:


> I won't be voting. I don't feel strongly enough either way. The OP want's to 'take our country back', which is fine, only that it's 20 years too late.
> 
> This may come across a little controverial to fellow Brits, and generally quite cunty, but to be perfectly honest i really don't possess much, if any pride and patriotism when it comes to England. 'Great Britain', whatever that's suppose to mean, is a mess. The middle classes in this country are an embarrassment. The Jeremy Kyle and TOWIE culture is embarrassing. Immigration is embarrassing. The idea of a Royal Family is embarrassing. And the rich live in a different, separate, protected reality. A reality and world of their own, where the walls will never be breached. It's the working class who are completely fucked over in this country. They contribute to society, pay taxes, and help fill the pockets of the rich. Yet when the working class ask for help, need Council housing (which they are fully prepared to pay for), try to get their child in the best school etc they are shunned and pushed aside. This all goes on whilst the politicians are sat in their Ivory Towers satisfying their own personal agenda's. It's all fucked up, use the system and you are rewarded.
> 
> ...


So not much different than the states




Café de René said:


> People thinking "it's too late" do not seem to realise that the EU and the US have even bigger plans for the burial of your liberty and sovereignty, the first one being that horrible TTIP treaty that they are going to force on us no matter the referendums and protests against it.


Thank you for bringing the TTIP to attention. I just learned of this disgusting treaty not long ago.


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

It is never too late to change the course of time, the question is even if we voted to leave would the Eurocrats in Brussels allow it? There is only one way to find out.....

(And yes as @DesolationRow noted it can only get worse, it's better to try and reverse the course now than to wait before it get's even harder in the future).


----------



## BRITLAND (Jun 17, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

Oh dear, if it's a remain vote Cameron will remain Prime Minister and will reshuffle his cabinet, *designed to make George Osborne his successor* :eagle



> LEADING Brexiteer Liam Fox is being lined up for a shock return to the Cabinet as David Cameron tries to re-unite the Tories after the EU referendum, The Sun can reveal.
> 
> The former Defence Secretary – forced to quit in 2011 over his links to lobbyist and close friend Adam Werrity – is expected to be given a plum job as the PM seeks to heal deep wounds in the party.
> 
> ...


http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...eferendum.html

Boris Johnson as Health Secretary? :eagle The junior doctors will have a good day with that :ha

I feel more strongly towards Brexit now.


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

The democratic/sovereignty argument on this is bullshit. We had a plebiscite to decide whether we stayed in or not in the 70s and we're having another one now, our elected government can call referenda whenever they like and EU law only supercedes UK law currently because of a law passed by the UK Parliament that it can revoke at any time. All the EU's power over the UK comes from, and will continue to come from, the will of the people or the will of the democratically elected government.

Economically it would obviously be a disaster for Britain, virtually every institution qualified to speak on economic matters agrees on this.


----------



## Rex Rasslin (Jan 6, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

The European Union shits on all it's citizen there is no democracy anymore. Politicans are puppets for the banksters and lobbies. I hope for the people of GB that they can free themselfs from this EU slavery. As long as Germany does everything the US tells them to do Europe will continue to suffer until they start civil wars. Total military control is coming - they let the terrorists pass through with the help of this refugee crisis and as soon as they start suicide attacking in all of Europe frequently (Paris & Brussels are just the beginning) - people will be scared and searching for security and this means easy game for total control and observation. Most people are brainwashed as fuck nowadays and they don't even care what is going on in their countries. Today it's all about social-media and brand-name products and stupid shit like that. They are so dumb they don't even realize they let themselfs be dependent on a fucking smartphone which can be tracked anytime at anyplace. This is not personal freedom it's called observation of the masses but actually 99% don't even want to hear these concerns.


----------



## The Ultimate Warrior (Oct 19, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

Will be voting to leave regardless and will watch L-Dopa's video later. I believe it's better to stick with the elected crooks you know rather than the unelected crooks you don't know


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

Lol US is sending diplomats over to intimidate members of the EU, US sent one to Hungary to intimidate them. These bully tactics are hilarious.


----------



## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*



Miss Sally said:


> Lol US is sending diplomats over to intimidate members of the EU, US sent one to Hungary to intimidate them. These bully tactics are hilarious.


Not surprising. The EU tried to bully Hungry and Poland over the migrant issue.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

European nationalism brought down the wall and ended the Soviet Empire, of course the Western European elites who weren't really that opposed to the Soviets in the first place immediately tried to impose their own kindler gentler super-state vision on their populations who they still view as inferiors the same way they did 900 years ago.

The return of nationalism to the Continent once again is the best thing that has happened there in 25 years. Kings, Popes, Holy Roman Emperors, regular Roman emperors, Byzantine emperors, Fuehrers, General Secretaries, Caliphs, Chieftains and Warlords... all their attempts to turn Europe into one super-state have been failures drowned in blood. Maybe this time the people of Europe will put the idea into a coma for a long, long time.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*



deepelemblues said:


> European nationalism brought down the wall and ended the Soviet Empire, of course the Western European elites who weren't really that opposed to the Soviets in the first place immediately tried to impose their own kindler gentler super-state vision on their populations who they still view as inferiors the same way they did 900 years ago.
> 
> The return of nationalism to the Continent once again is the best thing that has happened there in 25 years. Kings, Popes, Holy Roman Emperors, Fuehrers, General Secretaries, Caliphs... all their attempts to turn Europe into one super-state have been failures drowned in blood. Maybe this time the people of Europe will put the idea into a coma for a long, long time.


I find it fascinating that the states that were under the iron boot of the Soviet Union for decades feature peoples and governments that are far more protective of their national identities and the future of their people--the way Hungary and several other Central and Eastern European nations are reacting to the "migrant crisis," for instance--than their Western European counterparts. It sort of illustrates that John Dewey has proven to be infinitely more successful in shaping the "new democratic man" than Joseph Stalin and commissars and associates were in molding the "new Soviet man."


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

@DesolationRow Thanks for posting that video link. This is hardly anything new from Farage, he's been warning about the EU and their common policies and their determination for integration for years and the damage it's causing. The suggestion of Turkey joining is just enough example.

I'm no traditional nationalist in the way far right (or perceived far right) political parties are...hell not even so much as Farage himself but what he is saying is correct: Turkey joining would have a fundamentally horrible mistake...not even just for the EU but Turkey's own citizen's. I have a friend who is Turkish living there who knows the problems her own country is facing via corrupt government that is in bed with Islamic Extremists whose own president wants to turn back 80+ years of a history that managed constitutional and parliamentary reform after fall out of the Turkish War of Independence. She along with the vast majority of Turkish people are being betrayed by their own government as we speak.

I'd urge you watch videos from *Daniel Hannan* as he is maybe the most eloquent and precise advocate for Britain leaving the EU as you are ever going to find:


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*



DesolationRow said:


>


It won't win us Brexit, it won't win fuck all because the only people who care enough what that cunt has to say to watch a 5 minute video of him speaking are already firmly entrenched in the out camp.

You can post all the shit that you want, nobody is going to listen to people on the internet, nobody is going to listen to crank political figures like Farage, Kilroy, Johnson or Trump, people are going to listen to the Bank of England, the IMF, President Obama, the Prime Minister, the Chancellor, NATO secretary generals and so on.

If you're expecting a win at the referendum because of any campaign nonsense you're going to be very very disappointed. The campaigning now won't make a difference, the only things that can swing are either one of the heavy hitters switching sides or some extraordinary event that drastically increases anti-EU sentiment.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*



TheResurrection said:


> It won't win us Brexit, it won't win fuck all because the only people who care enough what that cunt has to say to watch a 5 minute video of him speaking are already firmly entrenched in the out camp.
> 
> You can post all the shit that you want, nobody is going to listen to people on the internet, nobody is going to listen to crank political figures like Farage, Kilroy, Johnson or Trump, *people are going to listen to the Bank of England, the IMF, President Obama, the Prime Minister, the Chancellor, NATO secretary generals and so on*.
> 
> If you're expecting a win at the referendum because of any campaign nonsense you're going to be very very disappointed. The campaigning now won't make a difference, the only things that can swing are either one of the heavy hitters switching sides or some extraordinary event that drastically increases anti-EU sentiment.


I truly feel sorry for those people, then. The IMF, which receives most of its funding from the U.S., not surprisingly exists in large part to advance the interests of the American financial establishment. Were the IMF a genuinely responsible financial institution it would never have extended the new loan of nearly 40 billion dollars to a borrower which was at the time struggling, mightily, to pay back an existing multi-billion dollar loan, but the IMF did this approximately a year ago when it extended a new loan to the U.S.'s puppet regime in the Ukraine. The IMF is routinely providing the basis upon which dictators and economically illiterate states may practice unsound economic policies which harm their people, all to the benefit of American companies and banks. When the IMF uses the money pulled away from U.S. taxpayers to provide "aid" to economically anemic and typically utterly corrupt governments, the IMF distorts the entire global market, plays god with international economic data, harms American taxpayers and enriches irresponsible, often terrible regimes while behaving as the world's chief loan shark allied with the U.S. Treasury Department. It is hardly surprising that the Bank of England, Barack Obama, the Prime Minister, the Chancellor, NATO secretary generals and others want the gravy train stemming from the financially interconnected scheme that benefits a tiny number of people.

There is, after all, a reason why the United States was the place where the European Union and euro were both born as ideas, as this excellent article points out: http://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/04/no_author/eu-us-plot/

I myself do not necessarily agree with Nigel Farage about everything but his statement--"...The IMF was wrong when it supported the euro, wrong when it failed to predict the global recession and is wrong now as it is trying to scare the British people." 

Britain leaving the EU would doubtless leave some potentially difficult uncertainty in markets to weather over this summer but it seems far preferable to staying in the profoundly flawed super-state. I would go further and contend that the IMF should be disbanded altogether but I do not wish to sidetrack this thread.


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

The EU referendum is starting a domino effect in Europe! @DesolationRow @CJ; @MissSally;

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...demand-Frexit-EU-referendum-Germany-UK-Brexit

MORE than half of French voters want their own in-out referendum on European Union (EU) membership, renewing fears in Brussels that a Brexit could topple the 28-country bloc.



> With Britons set to go to the polls in June, there are increasing signs the UK’s referendum is paving the way for other European countries to question their own relationship with Brussels.
> 
> It comes after calls for Germany to have their own EU referendum in the aftermath of the migrant crisis.
> 
> ...



Brexit is already having an effect on the EU as a whole, could this be the beginning of the end for the EU project? The 23rd June vote is going to be so critical.


#FREXIT .


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

@DesolationRow @CJ;






More reason to leave the EU.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*



TheResurrection said:


> It won't win us Brexit, it won't win fuck all because the only people who care enough what that cunt has to say to watch a 5 minute video of him speaking are already firmly entrenched in the out camp.
> 
> You can post all the shit that you want, nobody is going to listen to people on the internet, nobody is going to listen to crank political figures like Farage, Kilroy, Johnson or Trump, people are going to listen to the Bank of England, the IMF, President Obama, the Prime Minister, the Chancellor, NATO secretary generals and so on.
> 
> If you're expecting a win at the referendum because of any campaign nonsense you're going to be very very disappointed. The campaigning now won't make a difference, the only things that can swing are either one of the heavy hitters switching sides or some extraordinary event that drastically increases anti-EU sentiment.


So they'll listen to the very people pushing for the demise of the EU? That's shitty for you guys then.

Obama is no one that you should care about.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

Indeed, @L-DOPA. The reasons to leave the European Union are mounting. 

(Plus, the general gist of the history of the English has been about not being dominated by and resisting encroachments of the continent. :lol)

In any event, some unfortunate news: http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...wned-elderly-brothers-windows-smashed-london/



> EXCLUSIVE: London Pro-Brexit Shop Has Windows Smashed In Early Morning Raid
> 
> by Raheem Kassam 10 Jun 2016
> 
> ...


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*



DesolationRow said:


> Indeed, @L-DOPA. The reasons to leave the European Union are mounting.
> 
> (Plus, the general gist of the history of the English has been about not being dominated by and resisting encroachments of the continent. :lol)
> 
> In any event, some unfortunate news: http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...wned-elderly-brothers-windows-smashed-london/


This doesn't shock me Drow, violence from the left has been escalating against people they oppose for a while now, the Police do nothing. Altho it seems the Police have the time to try and track down "Cyber Hate" but not any actual crimes committed by leftist protesters or migrants. It seems freedom of speech is coming to an end if you don't side with certain view points. What astounds me is that this sort of behavior is what Liberals should be fighting against, even if they do not like what the other side is saying.

Attacks on Trump supporters, Brexiters and Anti-Migration groups is escalating to a point where if someone is killed the media would black it out or justify it. The insanity is fascinating yet terrifying. Only recently an article came about from Huffpost where a writer there said the violence should continue and it was justified. The leader of NeverTrump also is fence sitting on the violence. Violence perpetrated by illegals is also ignored. We've entered a time where citizens can be assaulted by non-citizens and they get away with it.

I find it ironic that the groups who cried the loudest of Government corruption and violence are now praising the violence, I guess it's no surprise since there is no responsibility attached to crimes committed in the name of politics. Unless of course you're on the "Right" side of things, then oh boy, it's dastardly! The hive mentality of these people is interesting. It appears core values only apply to people who they deem worthy of it. Great people to lead nations and human rights groups.


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

@DesolationRow

Unfortunately @MissSally; is correct. There are elements of the left that is so intolerant of anyone that has views different from theirs or that opposes them that they will resort to acts of violence like this. The mentality of calling people racists for example because they don't want to have an open border immigration policy and want to have some semblance of control over who comes into our country tends to come from those who have SJW tendencies (or are just blatantly SJW's) and come from the left sphere of the political spectrum.

I showed a Secular Talk video in the Trump thread where he absolutely denounces the protestors who have violently attacked Trump supporters at Trump's rallies and in the public in general but unfortunately as a progressive he is in the minority of the left as he is consistent and will call out people with similar views to himself when they are wrong.

The majority tend to ignore or even cheer on these types of attacks.


----------



## Blackbeard (Apr 23, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

I am still voting to stay in the EU.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*



Blackbeard said:


> I am still voting to stay in the EU.


Without re-reading the thread, why exactly? You are so much better off without their stench IMO.


----------



## Dibil13 (Apr 29, 2016)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

Absolutely nothing will really change if the UK leaves. Things won't magically get better. The people in parliament are the problem, not the EU. The country is going to keep on declining no matter what. This referendum is a farce, a case of scapegoating. One that could very well lead to the break up of the United Kingdom at that.


----------



## Karma101 (Sep 7, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

Campaigning from both sides has been absolutely embarrassing for this referendum, it is literally unbearable watching the news atm. Not too bothered about the outcome because we are left with exactly the same system no matter what, I don't feel like siding with UKIP and some of the more stomach-churning members of the conservative party so I will probably vote to remain, despite the fact that the EU is just bureaucratic and authoritarian nonsense for the most part.

Most importantly though they should just make this whole thing stop. I think they should schedule the vote a week earlier because all the campaigning is so pointless and annoying at this point.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

@Miss Sally and @L-DOPA, completely agree with both of your posts. @CJ

Full article here: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...oris-johnson-nigel-farage-david-a7075131.html



> EU Referendum: Massive swing to Brexit – with just 13 days to go
> 
> Exclusive: polling carried out for ‘The Independent’ shows that 55 per cent of UK voters intend to vote for Britain to leave the EU in the 23 June referendum
> 
> ...


----------



## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*



DesolationRow said:


> @Miss Sally and @L-DOPA, completely agree with both of your posts. @CJ
> 
> Full article here: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...oris-johnson-nigel-farage-david-a7075131.html


Good for the UK


----------



## Spanish Lariato (Jul 26, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

As a Spain citizen I have mixed feelings about this. The EU is a supranational platform with imperialistic overtones. Its long term goal is to stablish a hegemonic political and economical control where sovereignty will lay in a financial plutocracy. Its current state is no more that a crutch to rubricate Germany dominance. The bellicose nature of the Union (underlined by the preponderance of NATO) has lead us to situations such as the fomentation of wahhabism and terrorism in countries like Libya and Syria and as a subproduct the possible addition of Turkey to the Eurozone (a country in an in a progressive state of fascistization and desecularization). 
In the other hand we also have advantages. A single currency is good for the empowerment of the region although it also brought loss of purchasing power. In the social aspects under a certain political climate it can help the advance of measures that otherwise would not be taken. And as a scientist I can also confirm that the majority of progress in conservation and investigation in the recent years would not have been possible without that structure behind. Even so there is a lot to do.
Thus, I would like to see this concept reformulated and that the union had a much more egalitarian and horizontal fitting without those control pretensions. UK may have a future without EU but it is uncertain to say the least. I know that Spain would have a tougher outcome. Without these ties we should actively seek alliances with other countries or blocs. Hispanic America is somewhat plausible but not ideal given the current evolution of ALBA countries. Russia and China can be another possibility but I doubt it. I think that if this whole continental coalition didn't work out maybe a union with countries that share similar geographical and socioeconomical characteristics will be the best (Southern Europe maybe).


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*



DesolationRow said:


> @Miss Sally and @L-DOPA, completely agree with both of your posts. @CJ
> 
> Full article here: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...oris-johnson-nigel-farage-david-a7075131.html


It's a good look but let's not forget what happened in Austria with the voter fraud, with some areas having 140%+ voter turn out in mail in votes. It's obviously fraud yet I haven't heard of Austria doing a recount or investigation because they got who they wanted in office. These people aren't even worried about voter manipulation being public, they know the EU will back them up and the people will do nothing. Unless the voter turn out is 60-70% in favor of leaving, I expect fuckery like this to turn out. Though I'm unsure if the British people will be as placid as the Austrians when it comes to a fraud vote.

The fact that many in this thread aren't with either side but will choose to vote remain is a scary sign, they just don't care. It would be better if they just didn't vote if they don't like either side. People can see what the EU is trying to accomplish and what it's all about yet they're just so numb they couldn't care less even though what the EU does will impact their future. I fear we're right at the era of stagnation, the point where a people simply don't care, they don't want to think, act for themselves or others and willing to accept whatever people in power give. Nothing good has ever come of this, all it takes for evil to triumph is good men to do nothing.. well here you have it. People doing absolutely nothing.


----------



## Rowdy Yates (Nov 24, 2014)

*Brexit or Remain*

United Kingdom European Union membership referendum

Only two days to go until the polls open to decide if the U.K will remain or leave the European Union. It will be the second time the British electorate has been asked to vote on the issue of Britain's membership: the first referendum was held in 1975, when continued membership was approved by 67% of voters. Recent polls suggest it will be much closer this time

Since 2010, polls have indicated that the British public are divided on the question, with opposition to EU membership peaking in November 2012 at 56% compared with 30% who prefer to remain in,while in June 2015 those in favour of Britain remaining in the EU reached 43% versus those opposed 36% The largest ever poll (of 20,000 people, in March 2014) showed the public evenly split on the issue, with 41% in favour of withdrawal, 41% in favour of membership, and 18% undecided. However, when asked how they would vote if Britain renegotiated the terms of its membership of the EU, and the UK Government stated that British interests had been satisfactorily protected, more than 50% indicated that they would vote for Britain to stay in

So Wrestling forum members. Where do you stand on the issue. Remain or Leave ?


----------



## Blackbeard (Apr 23, 2014)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

Remain.


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

Not British but staying is stupid considering how the EU is run. Tho if any countries deserve to be ruined it's Germany and Britain but I'd feel sorry for the Scots and Irish being collateral damage. I guess if you like short term profit for long term disaster and un-elected cunts telling you what to do, remaining sounds smart.


----------



## Phaedra (Aug 15, 2014)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

Remain. simple. and two scots just said that one after the other because we know the benefits of being part of a union worth being part of.


----------



## CretinHop138 (Sep 9, 2015)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

Remain.

Looking at the bookies and the markets it looks like we're staying in the EU. The murder of Labour's Joanne Cox has got Remain over the line (The undecideds, the black and asian vote and the celtic nations are all very likely voting remain) . Farage is a poisonous and toxic little shit, Trump style politics does not work here.


----------



## SpeedStick (Feb 11, 2010)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

UKs exit will trigger other countries to leave as well, A revolution


----------



## ST1TCH (Aug 6, 2014)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

I think the UK needs to make a major step and leave the EU, the cultures are just so different and continue to separate more and more daily. You can't mix oil and water. I also think it'd be a great way to start fighting back against the rising threat of radical Islam, which is neither here nor there right now because I'm exhausted on the topic and don't want to discuss it further.

Then again, it's not my country.

Then again, my country is hell bent on burning itself to the ground so it's not like I even have a say here.


----------



## CretinHop138 (Sep 9, 2015)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



SpeedStick said:


> UKs exit will trigger other countries to leave as well, A revolution


No it won't. In the now unlikely event of a "Brexit" it would all depend on the negociations they would get. If they got something that was shit then no way.


----------



## Gandhi (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

I'm not British, but my future is there with my British significant other.

She wants the UK to remain, whilst I am just unsure. (I feel really bad that I am unsure tbh)


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

Hmm, allow an un-elected unaccountable foreign cabal to make decisions that affect your country or assert your nation's sovereignty. Really tough decision (if you're an utter cuck). Polls have been leaning exit last I checked so hopefully they do end up leaving the EU, and smarten up about the refugee crisis. Hopefully it's not too late for the UK already.


----------



## Dibil13 (Apr 29, 2016)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

I don't really care much, honestly. This time last year I'd have voted leave but now this doesn't interest me.

Leaving could produce some internal issues though, especially with Scotland and Northern Ireland being more Pro EU than England. The whole thing with NI being out of the EU while Republic of Ireland is in it could also be a problem. The border would need tighter security or something to stop illegals entering the UK that way.

I don't see Brexit happening. It'll be closer than first thought but Remain is going to win. It's too uncertain a future for most people to go for, which I can understand.


----------



## KC Armstrong (Jun 19, 2013)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



> The murder of Labour's Joanne Cox has got Remain over the line (The undecideds, the black and asian vote and the celtic nations are all very likely voting remain)



Man, I love me some hypocrisy. The same people who are always the first ones to point out "Hey, 99.99999% of muslims are totally awesome and peaceful" after yet another attack, are now acting like the whole Brexit crowd consists of a bunch of terrorists who want to kill the opposition... because of ONE SINGLE lunatic. Fuck this shit.


----------



## ErickRowan_Fan (Feb 8, 2014)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

The EU would've been fine as a loose coalition, to make negotiations, movement and trade between the countries easier, unfortunately the (undemocratically elected) powers within the EU wished to push the union towards a federation similar to the United States with one currency, one army and one culture. That's not going to work for the British, or anyone else that has a high regard for their own country. The British did fine centuries before the EU, and they will probably do just fine centuries after.

The people didn't fight to make European countries democracies for hundreds of years, only so that they could hand the power back to the monarchs. The old, idealistic, wine-intoxicated buffoons that run the EU do not deserve any of the power that they are given, essentially for being born in the right families, so I couldn't be any happier if the British put a temporary halt to their plans (which probably won't be happening, considering the recent event and its media portrayal).

I just do not see the EU as a system that represents European values, whatever they may be (pretty big difference between being in Western Europe or Eastern Europe really). I did think that democracy played a major part, but apparently the powers within the EU regard democracy as a mere "inconvenience", considering how vehemently they are against referendums of this sort.


----------



## Thumbinthebum (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

Remain.


----------



## J-B (Oct 26, 2015)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

*Leave. *


----------



## amhlilhaus (Dec 19, 2013)

You guys lost your nuts when queen victoria died.

The united states had to bail you out of 2 world wars, you will vote to stay in the eu.

Wankers, all of you!

Im juuuusst kidding. You guys rock, kick those fucks to the curb lolol


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

Leave

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk


----------



## CJ (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

Leave.


----------



## FriedTofu (Sep 29, 2014)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

Remain. Because it is the easier option.


----------



## Braylyt (Jan 19, 2015)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

Leave unkout


so they at least have a fighting chance at democracy again


----------



## CretinHop138 (Sep 9, 2015)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



CamillePunk said:


> Hmm, allow an un-elected unaccountable foreign cabal to make decisions that affect your country or assert your nation's sovereignty. Really tough decision (if you're an utter cuck). Polls have been leaning exit last I checked so hopefully they do end up leaving the EU, and smarten up about the refugee crisis. Hopefully it's not too late for the UK already.


House of Lords?


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

Anyone with half a brain can clearly see that staying in the EU is mutually beneficial for both EU and UK.


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*





 Remain, obviously.


----------



## Diavolo (Dec 22, 2013)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

Hope UK leaves so than Italy,Malta.Spain and all the other leave too

EU ruined financially practically all countries in it + the worst thing of them all is that Europe got invaded with africans and muslims


----------



## Funaki7 (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

On behalf of the Scottish, I say Leave....only because I want that second referendum 

Either way, I feel like it's England's duty to set up proper accommodation for all the Rangers fans who voted against Scottish independence. They want to be English so fucking bad, it's England's duty to put them up imo.


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

The way I see it, the self-sufficient economies within the EU seem to be bearing the burden of the deadweights and they don't deserve to have to be responsible for the economic shit other countries get themselves into. 

All for Britishers to make their own informed decision and if I was british, I'd vote exit at this point. 

The world isn't ready for one world mentality because the stragglers haven't yet caught up and therefore shouldn't be allowed to act as a ball and chain for those societies that are more evolved.

I read somewhere that even the cost of education in England is rising because European students are no longer charged "international fees". That burden is being shifted to UK students and it's incredibly unfair because overall it's bad for society when costs of education rise. This is just one area where this is directly impacting British life. I mean, you have this great country that you built up with extremely high standards of education and you have other people literally mooching off of it and not working on improving the shitty standards of education in their own countries instead opting to become a part of a system that hurts one country and one country only. And I'm willing to bet this kind of burden is faced in other walks of life as well. The funny thing is, here the liberals are using the argument that it would drive away high achieving EU students ... No it won't. You give the high achievers scholarships like you always have, but you force the average and below average to pay more so that it keeps the university financially healthy. 

All for Britain to step out of the EU no matter which way I look at it. There's just no benefit for them to stay imo.


----------



## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



CamillePunk said:


> Hmm, allow an un-elected unaccountable foreign cabal to make decisions that affect your country or assert your nation's sovereignty. Really tough decision (if you're an utter cuck). Polls have been leaning exit last I checked so hopefully they do end up leaving the EU, and smarten up about the refugee crisis. Hopefully it's not too late for the UK already.


This is such garbage, the EU decisions are all made by elected members. We have the house of lords in the UK who will get even more control are entirely unelected. 

Polls have been showing a swing towards remain.

The refugee crisis is barely touching the UK.

I'll be voting remain because the leave campaign is led by a bunch of idiots quite frankly and heaven't been able to give a single fact.


----------



## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



Reaper said:


> I read somewhere that even the cost of education in England is rising because European students are no longer charged "international fees".


'International' what has that got to do with the EU? International is worldwide.


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



draykorinee said:


> 'International' what has that got to do with the EU? International is worldwide.


Don't EU students pay the same fees as domestic students?


----------



## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



Reaper said:


> Don't EU students pay the same fees as domestic students?


Yes and it works both ways, we pay the same when we go abroad, its not like its a new privilege that suddenly became a burden. 

You do realise that all Universities are in the remain camp right? Because being in the EU benefits universities.


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



draykorinee said:


> Yes and it works both ways, we pay the same when we go abroad, its not like its a new privilege that suddenly became a burden.
> 
> You do realise that all Universities are in the remain camp right? Because being in the EU benefits universities.


Considering that Britain has the better universities compared to most of Europe guess who's at a disadvantage?


----------



## evilized (Jul 16, 2007)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

As someone old enough to remember the UK before the EU I'll be voting leave. We did perfectly fine before it, and after a period of adjustment we'll do perfectly fine after. Why do people think other EU countries are so against us leaving? If we weren't a major contributor to their funds they'd be telling us to jog on. If we do leave it's also likely to trigger a domino effect.

For those who think the EU will help if we need it just have a look at how fucked Greece is, and how many more problems they're going to have with the latest EU announcement. (Google European Commission to freeze payments to Greece)

It will also cut down on bureaucracy and red tape enabling us to act quicker when needed. 

Just a couple of the reasons I'm voting leave, and if other EU countries decide to put stupidly high taxes on our exports we can just do the same to them. We import a lot more from Europe than we export. The EEC was a brilliant concept, the EU is just a time bomb waiting to implode.


----------



## 3MB4Life (Apr 3, 2014)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

Leave all the way.

Love all the people who are gonna use their democratic vote to throw away their nation's sovereignity. David Cameron must love that everyone bought into his scaremongering bullshit, if we vote Remain then this country deserves to go down with the sinking ship that is the EU.


----------



## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



Reaper said:


> Considering that Britain has the better universities compared to most of Europe guess who's at a disadvantage?


I'm not sure how us having the best education systems and being able to entice Europes best and brightest puts us at a disadvantage.


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



draykorinee said:


> I'm not sure how us having the best education systems and being able to entice Europes best and brightest puts us at a disadvantage.


Higher cut offs. Less opportunities for Britain's own. Not like unis have unlimited spots. Plus I read over the article and seriously none of the positives they mentioned will stop happening significantly just because of it. A lot of that will continue to happen.

EU students will still come. And the best and brightest can get scholarships.


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



Reaper said:


> The way I see it, the self-sufficient economies within the EU seem to be bearing the burden of the deadweights and they don't deserve to have to be responsible for the economic shit other countries get themselves into.
> 
> All for Britishers to make their own informed decision and if I was british, I'd vote exit at this point.
> 
> ...


 As already mentioned, it goes both ways more or less across the board.

Another very well publicized fact in the same vein, Britain has far more ex pats in Europe than we do Europeans.


Regardless, even accurate monetary arguments are totally voided by a Brexit totally destroying the value of the pound.



3MB4Life said:


> Leave all the way.
> 
> Love all the people who are gonna use their democratic vote to throw away their nation's sovereignity. David Cameron must love that everyone bought into his scaremongering bullshit, if we vote Remain then this country deserves to go down with the sinking ship that is the EU.


 Love all these people who are going to use their democratic vote to give the unelected House of Lords complete power and harp on abut democracy fpalm

This is scaremongering


----------



## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



Reaper said:


> Higher cut offs. Less opportunities for Britain's own. Not like unis have unlimited spots. Plus I read over the article and seriously none of the positives they mentioned will stop happening significantly just because of it. A lot of that will continue to happen.
> 
> EU students will still come. And the best and brightest can get scholarships.


Lol, you do realise our fess are already far more expensive than ANYWHERE in the EU right? You're making it out like these students are coming here for some cheapo expert teaching yet our fees are extortionate with a lot of countries offering free or barely any tuition fees, not to mention our much higher cost of living compared to a lot of places.
Students come because we have the best facilities, getting out of the EU just so you can charge more isn't going to change much when our fees are already the most expensive ><


----------



## 3MB4Life (Apr 3, 2014)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



BehindYou said:


> Love all these people who are going to use their democratic vote to give the unelected House of Lords complete power and harp on abut democracy fpalm
> 
> This is scaremongering


If we can get a referendum to abolish the House Of Lords as well, I'd pretty happily get rid of them too. But I'll sure as hell take having the HoL over the EU. And the House Of Lords lost most of it's overwhelming power in 1911, pretty much anything they do has to be done alongside the House Of Commons who are elected officials anyway. It's not something I really like but it's certainly better than the EU

And that poster is barely scaremongering. If the EU makes us take as many migrants as they can (which they will) then that's gonna be devestating. We barely have enough housing and school places as it is and we sure as hell don't have the kind of cash to throw around to support the amount people we'll end up taking in. It's also kind of a general point that we need control over our own borders, which we do.

When David Cameron basically threatens that leaving will cause WWIII and that no one will trade with us and that a leave vote will be "catastropic" without giving any reason why, that's scaremongering.


----------



## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



3MB4Life said:


> And that poster is barely scaremongering. If the EU makes us take as many migrants as they can (which they will) then that's gonna be devestating. We barely have enough housing and school places as it is and we sure as hell don't have the kind of cash to throw around to support the amount people we'll end up taking in. It's also kind of a general point that we need control over our own borders, which we do.


The poster is total scaremongering, its right up there with some of the worst, its quite funny that most leave campaigners have distanced themselves from that awful poster yet people still seem to think its not scaremongering...



> Mr Gove said he "shuddered" when he saw it while the Chancellor said it was "disgusting" and linked it to Nazi propaganda.


When your own team says that, you know you'er scaremongering.


----------



## 3MB4Life (Apr 3, 2014)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



draykorinee said:


> The poster is total scaremongering, its right up there with some of the worst, its quite funny that most leave campaigners have distanced themselves from that awful poster yet people still seem to think its not scaremongering...


It's a message that needs to be brought home, we can't handle the influx of migrants that's coming into the EU and we need to have better control of our borders. It's not the best way to get the message across but when David Cameron's claiming that we're going to de-stablise Europe and get cut off from the entire continent, sometimes you have to stoop to the level your opposition is playing at.


----------



## kariverson (Jan 28, 2014)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

BREXIT no doubt. EU is a cancerous decaying union and the British people have one chance before it is to late, to jump ship and save their nation. Lead by example so more nations follow. You got to think of your own country first and then a Union that works for Germany and treats the members like German colonies. It's no secret that they only people in EU that's happy with the Union are the Germans.


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

The whole fucking debate has had mongs on both side using fear. Both sides have bellends. Still unsure on how i will vote


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

Remain voters are for being ruled by unelected foreign bureaucrats that hate us and keep raising our taxes. Remain voters don't care about freedom, accountability, democracy, capitalism or British culture.

Leave voters are for democracy, accountability, world wide trade deals, saving the broken NHS, saving our local schools from over population, and saving this country from the hordes of rapists, murderers, jihadists and unskilled factory workers that are killing this country and sucking it dry.

The only people profiting from the EU are the corrupt politicians and mega corporations that are loving the fact that they can now get cheap and long hours UK labour.


----------



## kusksu (Mar 12, 2010)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

Remain. 

Brits will still need to trade with the EU and anyone who think migration will freeze if Britain Exit have no fucking idea what they are talking about. Anyway, they got the conditions they asked for from the EU. 

If they do exit, I hope the EU/America/all the foreign companies genuinely abandon them like they threaten to do. Let them realise the hard way that the British Empire isn't the powerhouse it used to be.

The whole thing is poorly done anyway. Brits who have been living abroad for years (who will be forced back to the UK if they exit) aren't even allowed to vote in the referendum.


----------



## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



NeverDrewADime said:


> Remain voters are for being ruled by unelected foreign bureaucrats that hate us and keep raising our taxes. Remain voters don't care about freedom, accountability, democracy, capitalism or British culture.
> 
> Leave voters are for democracy, accountability, world wide trade deals, saving the broken NHS, saving our local schools from over population, and saving this country from the hordes of rapists, murderers, jihadists and unskilled factory workers that are killing this country and sucking it dry.
> 
> The only people profiting from the EU are the corrupt politicians and mega corporations that are loving the fact that they can now get cheap and long hours UK labour.


:stop


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



kusksu said:


> Remain.
> 
> Brits will still need to trade with the EU and anyone who think migration will freeze if Britain Exit have no fucking idea what they are talking about. Anyway, they got the conditions they asked for from the EU.
> 
> ...


You're from Malta so nobody cares about your uninformed opinion on British matters.

and here are some facts for you

1. Britain is an island, EU low skill legal migration will end immediately if we leave, illegal migration is a tiny tiny problem and we'll be able to deal with that easier too.

2. We never got any conditions that we asked for from the EU, the prime minister spend the entire year begging and never got permission to protect our borders and never got to ban benefits for EU migrants.

3. Britain is the 5th largest economy in the world and its a tiny little island.

4. the UK has a massive trade deficit with Europe, and is the biggest buyer of German cars out of any country in the world.

5. The British Empire may not be as big as it used to be, but we've still got your country of Malta kissing the ring and paying your taxes









6. Not a single company will leave, not one

7. Nobody will be forced to move back, you clearly don't know anything about how this thing works, they won't even be required to have a VISA if they already live there, they'll just most likely lose out on healthcare and benefit entitlements, and by the way, nobody has more people that we would love to send back home than Great Britain.


----------



## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



NeverDrewADime said:


> You're from Malta so nobody cares about your uninformed opinion on British matters.
> 
> and here are some facts for you
> 
> ...


You're not impressing anyone mate, you sound like the kind of guy that would gun down politicians to "GET ARE COUNTRY BACK!".


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



draykorinee said:


> This is such garbage, the EU decisions are all made by elected members. We have the house of lords in the UK who will get even more control are entirely unelected.


Name the 5 presidents of the EU, oh wait I forgot, you would just google it to be a smart ass even though you have no clue and never voted for them.

UK MEP's never win any votes, they're outnumbered 30-1 by all the other countries in the EU. Did you think that UK MEP's were the only people allowed to vote on laws that effect the UK or something? Well think again.

The house of lords 99.9% of the time never vote down anything that is voted through parliament, that's why the tax credits vote down was such a huge deal on the news. The house of lords is basically there to make and check meaningless laws that don't effect anyone, its no where near as bad as the EU where unelected people that we've never heard of are writing laws which destroy our entire fishing industry, raise everyone's VAT and break the back of our public services.

and at least the members of the house of lords were chosen by people that we elected and actually live in this country.


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



draykorinee said:


> You're not impressing anyone mate, you sound like the kind of guy that would gun down politicians to "GET ARE COUNTRY BACK!".


I'm not your "mate", Northern lefty/East end Londoner. If you're scared that voting out will make your cheap yearly holiday to Tenerife or Magaluf more difficult to achieve then relax, the pound will recover and there's this thing called a VISA


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



BehindYou said:


> As already mentioned, it goes both ways more or less across the board.
> 
> Another very well publicized fact in the same vein, Britain has far more ex pats in Europe than we do Europeans.
> 
> ...


British people abroad all own businesses or their own properties. European migrants don't own anything, they just take up public housing and the bad jobs that Britain's losers could be doing. The ones that could afford housing could legally come here without EU open borders. All open borders does is let the unskilled losers from former communist countries come and claim benefits or work low wage jobs where they pay little to no tax because our tax threshold is so high.


----------



## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



NeverDrewADime said:


> Did you think that UK MEP's were the only people allowed to vote on laws that effect the UK or something? Well think again.


No, because I actually understand how democracy works, its like when I vote for a labour MP and the Tories get in power, I don't expect my Labour MP to win every vote...Seriously what are you on about.



> and at least the members of the house of lords were chosen by people that we elected and actually live in this country.



This is so laughingly untrue, Bishops and hereditary peers say hi.



NeverDrewADime said:


> I'm not your "mate", Northern lefty/East end Londoner. If you're scared that voting out will make your cheap yearly holiday to Tenerife or Magaluf more difficult to achieve then relax, the pound will recover and there's this thing called a VISA


Umm, I'm a westcountry bumpkin with no passport who hasn't left the country for about 9 years, mate.

Michael Gove has declared if we vote remain he'll leave government, another reason to vote remain.


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



BehindYou said:


> This is scaremongering







Apparently you don't keep up with current events. All of these Syrian economic migrants are already in safe countries, yet they're desperate to come to sneak over the Euro tunnel to claim benefits and receive a free house.


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



NeverDrewADime said:


> You're from Malta so nobody cares about your uninformed opinion on British matters.
> 
> and here are some *facts* for you
> 
> ...


Facts? It's a combination of misinformation and literally just your own opinion of what will happen (#6)

1. We have complete control of non-EU countries immigration yet they still form the majority of immigrants entering the UK. If we wanted to cut off EU immigration completely we would have to exit the single market.

2. That is the nature of a democracy.

3. And the EU is the second biggest. How can you not think the projected drop in the £'s worth and our total lack of trading deals will effect this :lmao

4. We buy German cars because of their high quality despite them being hugely expensive, so if anything the elite will keep buying BMWs when they inevitably get more expensive. Wow, your sure showing those Krauts who's boss!

5. Not relevant.

6. Nearly 30% of German businesses said that they would decrease their capacities in the UK if we leave. But your opinion outweighs theirs?

7. I can't even tell what the back end of this is even supposed to mean.


What are all the independent financial institutions and universities motivations for saying Brexit will destroy our economy? Are they in league with the Mussies or Krauts or both? How do you know more than them?



NeverDrewADime said:


> Apparently you don't keep up with current events. All of these Syrian economic migrants are already in safe countries, yet they're desperate to come to sneak over the Euro tunnel to claim benefits and receive a free house.


Talks about current events,
posts a video from a year ago.

Talks about Syrians,
posts a video of Ethopians.


Makes out someone else is dumb,
Can't even post something relevant to the EU.


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



draykorinee said:


> No, because I actually understand how democracy works, its like when I vote for a labour MP and the Tories get in power, I don't expect my Labour MP to win every vote...Seriously what are you on about.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Let me simplify this so that even the REALLY REALLY bright people like you can understand

British voters voted for ALL of our MP's including our prime minister because they liked what they offered in their manifesto, and we can vote them out every 5 years, that's called democracy and accountability, something that leftists like you don't value.


British voters can only vote for 1/30th of the total MEP's in Europe and Europe's 5 presidents are completely unelected, there is no vote for selecting them, we can't get rid of them, they offer no manifesto, they just make the laws up as they go along.


----------



## flag sabbath (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

Remain. I'm under no romantic illusions about the nature of the EU, but there's no fucking way I'm handing a single shred of power to the likes of BoJo, Gove & Farrage. The idea that these nasty bastards will oversee a post-Brexit utopia is laughable.


----------



## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

I say they should vote leave. The EU is a piss poorly ran oligarchy that does more finger waging than it does doing anything good for its member states.


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



NeverDrewADime said:


> British people abroad all own businesses or their own properties. European migrants don't own anything, they just take up public housing and the bad jobs that Britain's losers could be doing. The ones that could afford housing could legally come here without EU open borders. All open borders does is let the unskilled losers from former communist countries come and claim benefits or work low wage jobs where they pay little to no tax because our tax threshold is so high.


 These are just flat out lies. EU immigrants pay far more tax than they take in benefits.

*British people abroad all own businesses or their own properties.*

Probably one of the most laughable statements ever presented as a fact.


----------



## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



NeverDrewADime said:


> British voters voted for ALL of our MP's including our prime minister because they liked what they offered in their manifesto, and we can vote them out every 5 years, that's called democracy and accountability, something that leftists like you don't value.
> 
> 
> British voters can only vote for 1/30th of the total MEP's in Europe and Europe's 5 presidents are completely unelected, there is no vote for selecting them, we can't get rid of them, they offer no manifesto, they just make the laws up as they go along.


Umm I think you'll find that about 60% of people didn't like the manifesto of the Tories one bit and voted against them, but it didn't matter, but that IS how democracy works, the majority vote, which is exactly what the EU is, an elected representative. 

You're also a massive hypocrit, you defend the house of lords by saying "Elected members chose the members" then slate the EU elected members choosing 'presidents'. You also say these presidents 'make up laws' honestly you don't know what you're talking about, the only thing presidents do is oversee the running.

You could argue that the EU council president is forced on us, but its forced on us by ELECTED heads of state, which again, was your defence for the house of lords. You're all over the place...mate.


----------



## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



virus21 said:


> I say they should vote leave. The EU is a piss poorly ran oligarchy that does more finger waging than it does doing anything good for its member states.


ITs not even close to an oligarchy, its a massive bloated number of people all having too much say, the complete opposite of an oligarchy.



flag sabbath said:


> Remain. I'm under no romantic illusions about the nature of the EU, but there's no fucking way I'm handing a single shred of power to the likes of BoJo, Gove & Farrage. The idea that these nasty bastards will oversee a post-Brexit utopia is laughable.


This.

I could get behind a leave campaign if a single person representing it was decent, the fact that its a bunch of arseholes who I wouldn't trust running my bath let alone the country means I won't contemplate leave.

I'm not saying Osborne/cameron are a joy either, but if you're convincing me to change the status quo, you'd sure better offer me better than this fucking idiot.


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



BehindYou said:


> 1. We have complete control of non-EU countries immigration *yet they still form the majority of immigrants entering the UK*.












I stopped reading there, you must get your facts from day time TV or wherever the unemployed people get their "facts" from, stick to the Jeremy Kyle show or big brother, stay away from the political stuff, its not your strength.

I just skimmed through the rest and had a good laugh, you managed to call the EU a country, called a cabal of unelected presidents a democracy and even called me elite because I bought a car that costs more than your cute little 1.1 litre Vauxhall hatchback, all in one post! that's impressive! Well done!

If you don't think universities have a leftist agenda then you've never been to university, but I think we already knew that. Also these so called independent financial institutions have no idea which companies would actually leave, what trade deals we would create or how much money we would save from securing our borders. The same "financial experts" thought we should join the EURO currency which turned out to be a complete and utter disaster.


----------



## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



NeverDrewADime said:


> I stopped reading there, you must get your facts from day time TV or wherever the unemployed people get their "facts" from, stick to the Jeremy Kyle show or big brother, stay away from the political stuff, its not your strength.


You stopped reading at the easily verifiable fact? Why would you stop reading when someone posts a well known fact?

:aries2


----------



## ka4life1 (Mar 2, 2014)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

Remain.


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



BehindYou said:


> These are just flat out lies. EU immigrants pay far more tax than they take in benefits.


They don't, that isn't taking in to account council housing, NHS or schooling (do you even have a clue how much private healthcare or education costs?), also if they weren't working zero hour contracts then they would be entitled to working tax credit which alone would be more per month than they would pay in tax. If Labour got their way and banned zero hour contracts then all 60% who haven't claimed working tax credits would be able to claim it and further increase the deficit. Nobody earning under at the very least £30,000 is paying more in to the system than they take out. Everything is heavily subsidized by the rich including our low income tax rates.



BehindYou said:


> British people abroad all own businesses or their own properties.
> 
> Probably one of the most laughable statements ever presented as a fact.


Yeah because British people are all sneaking over the Euro tunnel to get a free house in France, right? Because 300,000 British people per year are all flying off to work in Amazon Poland, right?

Britain is the only place in Europe where you get everything handed to you, so why would unskilled British people go to a crappy European country? Only well off Brits move abroad, people that start businesses in Spain or want to retire in the south of France.


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



NeverDrewADime said:


> I stopped reading there, you must get your facts from day time TV or wherever the unemployed people get their "facts" from, stick to the Jeremy Kyle show or big brother, stay away from the political stuff, its not your strength.
> 
> I just skimmed through the rest and had a good laugh, you managed to call the EU a country, called a cabal of unelected presidents a democracy and even called me elite because I bought a car that costs more than your cute little 1.1 litre Vauxhall hatchback, all in one post! that's impressive! Well done!
> 
> If you don't think universities have a leftist agenda then you've never been to university, but I think we already knew that. Also these so called independent financial institutions have no idea which companies would actually leave, what trade deals we would create or how much money we would save from securing our borders. The same "financial experts" thought we should join the EURO currency which turned out to be a complete and utter disaster.


 It is a fact that more immigrants enter the UK from outside the EU as reported by...everything. I guess you are right over everyone.

I called the EU an economy like most of the institutions that measure GDP do...









I definitely didn't at any point accuse you of being elite in anyway shape or form. I made a point about trading with Germany, about how we will still buy their cars and your response is boasting about what you drive?

The unemployed Jeremy Kyle audience are most definitely on your side of the argument because they blame EU immigrants for their lack of jobs and sad circumstances, that's a very strange one to throw at Remain.



Basically, you have no answers and resort to name calling and saying other people aren't as clever as you.


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



draykorinee said:


> You stopped reading at the easily verifiable fact? Why would you stop reading when someone posts a well known fact?
> 
> :aries2


Because British people are all complaining about the Africans and Mexicans and Chinese crossing the border right? You must be a troll, I refuse to believe that someone that posts as much in this thread can be as clueless as yourself.

Newsflash its LEGAL EU LOW SKILL MIGRATION of 300,000 per year that is the problem, aka WHITE PEOPLE from FORMER COMMUNIST COUNTRIES and SYRIAN ECONOMIC MIGRANTS.


----------



## Mastodonic (Oct 11, 2015)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

I voted Leave just to annoy all the pissy little tarts on the Remain side.


----------



## 4everEyebrowRaisin (Feb 25, 2012)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

I want to leave, but I can recognise that there's not a chance in hell of that happening now. I don't want to politicise someones death, but Jo Cox's murder has pretty much sealed the deal: Remain are guaranteed a victory.

It's strange because I thought we actually had a fairly good chance of getting the fuck out; a lot of Remain supporters in the public eye were making complete tits of themselves and helping Leave more than they hurt it. Eddie Izzard and Bob Geldof being the most notable examples of Remain's idiocy. 

It's fucking theirs for the taking now, though.


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



BehindYou said:


> It is a fact that more immigrants enter the UK from outside the EU as reported by...everything. I guess you are right over everyone.
> 
> I called the EU an economy like most of the institutions that measure GDP do...
> 
> ...


1. That's not a fact, look it up and prepare to feel extremely stupid and hopefully feel so ashamed that you never post in this thread again.

2. You just compared one country's economy (the UK) to an entire continent combined, lmfao, oh god you're so bright! The only economy that is bigger than the UK in Europe is Germany, we just overtook France and we have 4.2 million less citizens, Germany has 16.6 million more people.

The £ is the strongest currency in Europe, FACT, even during this referendum when its dropping, its still stronger, that's how strong our £ is.

3. Yeah I'm the one that has no real answers, that's why I'm completely dissecting your worthless posts and leaving you with no response except this ridiculous lie (you're too lazy to look it up) that people from outside the EU are the majority of migrants. If the majority of migrants were Pakistani shop owners or Nigerian doctors then we'd be doing just fine, but that's a load of nonsense, its people from Poland and other places in Europe where there are no jobs.


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



4everEyebrowRaisin said:


> I want to leave, but I can recognise that there's not a chance in hell of that happening now. I don't want to politicise someones death, but Jo Cox's murder has pretty much sealed the deal: Remain are guaranteed a victory.
> 
> It's strange because I thought we actually had a fairly good chance of getting the fuck out; a lot of Remain supporters in the public eye were making complete tits of themselves and helping Leave more than they hurt it. Eddie Izzard and Bob Geldof being the most notable examples of Remain's idiocy.
> 
> It's fucking theirs for the taking now, though.


Just be there on voting day or have no right to complain when things go further down the toilet.


----------



## The5star_Kid (Mar 4, 2013)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

Remain. It's better financially and that's all that really matters. Easier travel, easier jobs, easier uni applications and easier for the economy.

The leave campaign is filled with scaremongers, liars, cheats and frauds...wish Cameron had joined them.


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



NeverDrewADime said:


> They don't, that isn't taking in to account council housing, NHS or schooling (do you even have a clue how much private healthcare or education costs?), also if they weren't working zero hour contracts then they would be entitled to working tax credit which alone would be more per month than they would pay in tax. If Labour got their way and banned zero hour contracts then all 60% who haven't claimed working tax credits would be able to claim it and further increase the deficit. Nobody earning under at the very least £30,000 is paying more in to the system than they take out. Everything is heavily subsidized by the rich including our low income tax rates.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Your fact is made up of ifs? If people work zero hour contacts, if labour got their way. That makes it not a fact. 
Regardless, only 3% of out of work benefits go to out of work benefits go to EU immigrants whilst the NHS is reliant on foreign doctors and nurses to even run.


I personally know British people who live in the EU and don't own businesses or houses. So they don't exist?? My stepsister works in a bar in Madrid where she's lived for 4 years.

It is unequivocally inaccurate that all British people in the EU own business and/or houses. But you presented it as a fact?


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



NeverDrewADime said:


> 1. That's not a fact, look it up and prepare to feel extremely stupid and hopefully feel so ashamed that you never post in this thread again.
> 
> 2. You just compared one country's economy (the UK) to an entire continent combined, lmfao, oh god you're so bright! The only economy that is bigger than the UK in Europe is Germany, we just overtook France and we have 4.2 million less citizens, Germany has 16.6 million more people.
> 
> ...


1) http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...exit-what-lies-have-been-spread-a7092521.html
"Office for National Statistics, giving us the oft-quoted net migration figure of 333,000. Of those who immigrated to the UK, there were slightly more non-EU citizens than EU citizen"

As reported on 100s of news sites, what is your source which is more accurate than the people who record the stats?

2) Because it is relevant because we are talking about the EU. The £ currently being strong isnt the point, the point is that all major financial institutions are saying it will decrease in value, decreasing the countries value internationally.

3) No you didn't at all. You just keep claiming that the facts sourced from you are more accurate than those sourced by experts and statisticians.


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



BehindYou said:


> Your fact is made up of ifs? If people work zero hour contacts, if labour got their way. That makes it not a fact.
> Regardless, only 3% of out of work benefits go to out of work benefits go to EU immigrants whilst the NHS is reliant on foreign doctors and nurses to even run.
> 
> 
> ...


Arguing with someone that has a reading comprehension disability is a real pain in the ass.

I said even without tax credits, they still cost the country way more than they give. Unless you're in that 40% tax bracket then you're probably not contributing as much as you take and by widening the disproportionate amount of people in the 20% inc tax pool we're destroying this country, running it further in to debt and will have to increase taxes on the lowest paid because rich peoples money only goes so far, it can't pay for everyone anymore unless we get the hell out of the EU.

Doctors and nurses are skilled workers, they would qualify for citizenship here regardless they don't need the EU open borders, only unskilled people that would never qualify as citizens need the EU to come here.

She can apply for a work VISA because we're not giving up British democracy so your step sister can pour some angry Spanish football fans a pint of beer for minimum wage.


----------



## Genking48 (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

This is great opcorn

It's like the Trump thread, but British.


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



NeverDrewADime said:


> Arguing with someone that has a reading comprehension disability is a real pain in the ass.
> 
> I said even without tax credits, they still cost the country way more than they give. Unless you're in that 40% tax bracket then you're probably not contributing as much as you take and by widening the disproportionate amount of people in the 20% inc tax pool we're destroying this country, running it further in to debt and will have to increase taxes on the lowest paid because rich peoples money only goes so far, it can't pay for everyone anymore unless we get the hell out of the EU.
> 
> ...


 Show me the statistic then, do something to prove that they take out more than they put in. I've presented facts as stated by multiple news outlets and bodies.

You are just saying you are right with nothing to back it up.


Even anti-immigration pro Brexit publications report a wage of £220/week stands as an overall gain to the economy per year. That's just over £11K a year but you are claiming people under £40K aren't contributing? What's it based on? 

You say you want Pakistani Shop Keepers and Nigerian Doctors when more immigrants from outside the UK our out of work than EU immigrants. Statistical fact.

You are completely missing my point, I'm not talking about her right to work elsewhere, it was a response to


NeverDrewADime said:


> British people abroad all own businesses or their own properties.


 and how that is 100% untrue.


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



BehindYou said:


> 1) http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...exit-what-lies-have-been-spread-a7092521.html
> "Office for National Statistics, giving us the oft-quoted net migration figure of 333,000. Of those who immigrated to the UK, there were slightly more non-EU citizens than EU citizen"
> 
> As reported on 100s of news sites, what is your source which is more accurate than the people who record the stats?
> ...


looool you just spend all those posts telling me that illegal migrants were the majority of immigrants, then you go and post that article and make a fool of yourself, come on now. None EU migrants doesn't mean illegal migrants, it means they're legal migrants from outside the EU, skilled workers, probably Asians that start corner shops or work in dentistry, perhaps Africans that work in the NHS, people that actually contribute to the country, guys who we desperately need right now to cope with all the unskilled EU migrants that are breaking the back of our NHS.

All illegal migrants in the UK beginning from decades ago is around 1.1-1.2 million people, EU net migration every 6 years is 1.2 million people.

None EU migrants have to have a temporary work VISA, be married to a British person or open a business here, they can't just be any weirdo.

EU migrants don't have to have any qualifications, they can be total bums, rapists or murderers and they're welcomed here with open arms, handed a house, given access to our public services and defended by people like you.


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



BehindYou said:


> Show me the statistic then, do something to prove that they take out more than they put in. I've presented facts as stated by multiple news outlets and bodies.
> 
> You are just saying you are right with nothing to back it up.
> 
> ...


Do you know that £11,000 per year is the UK pre tax threshold? Nobody in the UK pays income tax on their first £11,000, so please explain to me how someone making "just over" £11,000 is making enough to pay for the education of their 3 kids, their government house, the NHS that their entire family use, the free dental for the entire family and all the other entitlements? Also they work for mega corporations that pay little to no tax, Amazon only paid £10 million last year.

Do you know why everyone in Scandinavian countries and places like Canada are losing 70% of their pay every month due to taxes? its because they don't have rich people to subsidies their taxes for them, the government doesn't have any rich people to milk so they raise the taxes on the lower and middle classes to pay for all the social programs that they voted for. it would be the same over here if we didn't have any rich people, the £11,000 pre tax threshold is unheard of in any other country, that's double what it is in the United States


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

I'll reply to whatever you post tomorrow after 5pm, so don't sit up all day on the computer anxiously awaiting my post tomorrow because I'll be at work all day. Go watch Jeremy Kyle, big brother live or maybe even go to the job centre for a bit.


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



NeverDrewADime said:


> looool you just spend all those posts telling me that illegal migrants were the majority of immigrants, then you go and post that article and make a fool of yourself, come on now. None EU migrants doesn't mean illegal migrants, it means they're legal migrants from outside the EU


 That won't work because I can actually remember what I wrote a few hours ago.. 


BehindYou said:


> 1. We have complete control of non-EU countries immigration yet they still form the majority of immigrants entering the UK. If we wanted to cut off EU immigration completely we would have to exit the single market.


And I didn't say anything about the majority being illegal immigrants



NeverDrewADime said:


> Arguing with someone that has a reading comprehension disability is a real pain in the ass.


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*






:clap


----------



## kusksu (Mar 12, 2010)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



NeverDrewADime said:


> You're from Malta so nobody cares about your uninformed opinion on British matters.
> 
> and here are some facts for you
> 
> ...


*Yeah, I exaggerated on that end myself. They will lose quite a bit of their healthcare rights and will face a potential increase in property taxes.*


----------



## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



NeverDrewADime said:


> Because British people are all complaining about the Africans and Mexicans and Chinese crossing the border right? You must be a troll, I refuse to believe that someone that posts as much in this thread can be as clueless as yourself.
> 
> Newsflash its LEGAL EU LOW SKILL MIGRATION of 300,000 per year that is the problem, aka WHITE PEOPLE from FORMER COMMUNIST COUNTRIES and SYRIAN ECONOMIC MIGRANTS.


You call me clueless yet you're unable to actually counter anything with a reasonable measured, factual reply, its all been a load of hot air. 

The fact you equate 300,000 EU migrants as LOW SKILL WHITE PEOPLE FROM FORMER COMMUNIST COUNTRIES and SYRIAN MIGRANTS (When did Syria enter the EU?) just goes to show your ignorant bigoted views of immigration, I'm a nurse in the NHS, the last 3 years the ONLY reason the NHS exists and kind of works is because of EU skilled migration, you're a dingbat.

I'll just put you on ignore, because frankly, you offer nothing to the discussion but the kind of anger and vitriol that I expect of some Right wing American nutjob, you're ability to articulate a point is bordering on amateur. Oh wait you've been humbled...ouch.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

"What would Trump do?"


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



Goku said:


> "What would Trump do?"


He would run for president long before his country became so pathetic that they'd give up their sovereignty to a foreign cabal.










:banderas


----------



## Mifune Jackson (Feb 22, 2013)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

It's really bugging me that they're calling it "Brexit or Remain" and not "Brexit or Bremain."


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

Looks like a lot of undecided voters still out there which conventional wisdom says is a situation favoring the 'radical' option (Brexit). But on a question like this those who are undecided to the last minute are just as likely to become conservative and vote for the status quo instead of going for the risk.


----------



## CaptainLantern77 (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

Leave, but it wont happen.


----------



## skypod (Nov 13, 2014)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

Remain. I thought Remain was the obvious choice for everyone until this week. Still not met a leaver in person or even came across one on my Facebook friends list but apparently there's a lot out there.

Speaking from Scotland, if that helps.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



skypod said:


> Remain. I thought Remain was the obvious choice for everyone until this week. Still not met a leaver in person or even came across one on my Facebook friends list but apparently there's a lot out there.
> 
> Speaking from Scotland, if that helps.


scotland is very heavily pro-remain, not surprising you haven't met anyone who's for brexit or have a friend on FB who's for brexit


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE (Sep 12, 2013)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

I'd support Brexit, if I were able to vote there.


----------



## Blackbeard (Apr 23, 2014)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

Here's hoping common sense prevails tomorrow and Britain votes to remain.


----------



## CretinHop138 (Sep 9, 2015)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

ComRes Poll gives an 8% lead to Remain. (2015 Election's most accurate poll)
YouGov have given a 3% lead to Remain.
BMG gives a 7% lead to Remain.
Ipsos will come tomorrow morning.

ComRes poll was done by the Daily Mail and ITV.
YouGov was done by The Sun.
BMG was a general poll.

Bookies and the city are all saying confidently it'll be Remain. Up to 75-80 percent.


----------



## Thumbinthebum (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



Blackbeard said:


> Here's hoping common sense prevails tomorrow and Britain votes to remain.


Unfortunately this is the same nation that, having seen the damage 5 years of a Tory led coalition could do, chose to give them an overall majority in the next election.


----------



## CretinHop138 (Sep 9, 2015)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



Thumbinthebum said:


> Unfortunately this is the same nation that, having seen the damage 5 years of a Tory led coalition could do, chose to give them an overall majority in the next election.


Labour were offering Tory-lite/Blairism and the IndyRef in Scotland sharing a stage with Cameron. Thats what cost them, people didn't know what they stood for as they were drifting further to the right (or as its usually known "the centre ground")

I say this as a Labour voter.


----------



## TheGeneticFreak (Feb 27, 2016)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

*Remain*

I would have to get workpermits for EU players in Football Manager otherwise.


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

@CJ; @DesolationRow @MissSally;

Today is the day, we will know by tomorrow morning whether the UK opts to leave or stay in the EU. Today could be the final day we are shackled by the big corporatist/governmental agenda of the European Union.

Either way, I predict social media will be an insufferable mess come tomorrow...hell it already is now that voting is under way :lol.


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*

I don't know anybody that is voting remain so those polls are impressive to say the least

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk


----------



## Rowdy Yates (Nov 24, 2014)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

I have just been to the polling station to be told that the turnout has been extremely low so far. My vote is cast anyway


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit the Movie*



Father Ted said:


> I don't know anybody that is voting remain so those polls are impressive to say the least
> 
> Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk


 I only know one person who is voting leave and I doubt he will make it to a voting station.


----------



## VampDude (May 24, 2011)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

I would vote leave...

But since _*the votess are rigged*_ to stay, I'm not wasting my time when I could be staring at the wall for the next half an hour.


----------



## Marv95 (Mar 9, 2011)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*






From an outsider to me it's short term pain, long term gain. How has globalism helped the country? Why would you want to remain with corruption?


----------



## FriedTofu (Sep 29, 2014)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



VampDude said:


> I would vote leave...
> 
> But since _*the votess are rigged*_ to stay, I'm not wasting my time when I could be staring at the wall for the next half an hour.


Way to stay hedged on the issue. If leave wins, you can say you were with the majority. If remains wins, you can say the votes are rigged. All by doing nothing even when you have the opportunity to have a voice in the issue.


----------



## Mr. Socko (Sep 2, 2006)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

What are the consequences of Britain leaving? What are the benefits?


----------



## Oda Nobunaga (Jun 12, 2006)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

I merged both Brexit threads. All discussion for the referendum is to remain in this one thread so as to keep it focused and clear.


----------



## Rowdy Yates (Nov 24, 2014)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



Mr. Socko said:


> What are the consequences of Britain leaving? What are the benefits?


Depends on who you ask

The remain campaign will have you believe that if we vote leave the U.k will implode overnight, A bottle of wine will go from £5 to £7638, The national minimum wage will go from £7.61 a hour to 21 pence (that is if there is any jobs left). No other country in the world will ever do trade with us again. The housing market will crash and the great British £ will become non existent. Within 6 months Syria will look like a stable and prosperous country compared to the U.K

On the other hand the leave campaign will tell you that no Immigrant will ever step foot on our land again, Our borders will never be breached and terrorism will become a thing of the past.The U.k will soon be the financial power house of the world. Wages will rise and taxes will fall.Every civilian will prosper for the better.The £350 million we give to the EU every week will be put to creating jobs and ensuring that every Brit will be better off

For me in reality if we leave then short term there might well be a bit of a struggle, The cost of living might rise a bit but income remain the same or drop a tad. Long term i believe that leaving is the better option for us. We can take control of our own destiny. We can get some sort of grip on the immigration problem and our law will be decided by people who are elected by the British public and not some shady politicians from the likes of Spain and Italy. We will be accountable for our own decisions and the days of being dictated to by the clowns in Brussels will be over. We can negotiate our own trade deals and wont be legally bound to accept migrants from all over Europe. There is much more potential for us to prosper for the better if we leave than there is if we remain

On the other hand if we do choose to remain (the most likely outcome) then i wont loose to much sleep over it. We dont have a bad standard of living and i will be more than content to carry on as i am


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

From what I'm reading that other nations may put out their own votes to leave if the UK does. The problem I see is that the EU plan is short term, it's not sustainable at all long term. Staying for short term benefits seems silly when it means letting people you didn't elect tell you what to do on certain matters. People seem to be content with giving up freedoms and critial thinking for someone to tell them it's okay and so they don't have to work any harder because it's scary!


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Remember that after rebate that £350 million becomes £250 million and after other money paid in the EU to British public and organisations it is down to £135 Million.
Obviously still a big number but one that has been massively misrepresented.


I by no means believe Brexit would be as bad as you are saying Remain voters believe, I just feel it is a huge economic gamble with nothing hard to back up the future positives other then saying other countries will back down from their current stances.



What freedoms have the EU taken from me?


----------



## Poyser (May 6, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Has anyone seen the front page of one of those German papers going round today? Made me chuckle anyways

"Dear Britain, if you stay in the EU...
We will acknowledge the Wembley goal.
We won't make any more jokes about Prince Charles' ears.
We won't wear sun cream on the beach in solidarity with your sunburn.
We will go without our goalkeeper at the next penalty shootout to make it more exciting.
We will introduce tea time, with buckets on the beaches of Majorca.
We will willingly provide the villain in every Bond film.
We'll start "ticking" like you and put our clocks back by an hour.
We'll put through an EU directive which forbids foam on our beer.
We'll reserve sun loungers around the pool for you with our towels.
Jogi Löw will guard your crown jewels.
We will come to your Queen's 100th birthday."


----------



## Braylyt (Jan 19, 2015)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

^ Germans being in favour of a fascist regime?


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

It is amazing how the EU has marketed itself as something completely necessary and then scared people into staying in the union with complete nonsense. Whether people vote to leave or remain, the truth always comes out in the end.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

I happily voted Leave and would again anyday.


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Braylyt said:


> ^ Germans being in favour of a fascist regime?


When Germany is on board with something it's best to check, recheck and then double check. Judging how their country seems to be going..I'd not be so sure to follow them.:quite


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

I cast my vote

Don't expect it to matter tho

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk


----------



## DocBlue (Jul 30, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Voted remain and sincerely hope to wake up tomorrow to such a result although the whole campaign from both sides has really left a sour taste in the mouth


----------



## Rowdy Yates (Nov 24, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



DocBlue said:


> Voted remain and sincerely hope to wake up tomorrow to such a result although the *whole campaign from both sides has really left a sour taste in the mouth*


Agree 100% with this. Both parties have been far more interested in belittling the other rather than focusing on there own manifesto. I know this is usually the norm in politics but during this referendum it has hit new highs. There has been far more information as to why you should vote against rather than for


----------



## Deck The Halls With Funes Mori (May 13, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

I voted remain because I'm not a tit.


----------



## CJ (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Just been down to cast my vote to leave.


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

I voted by post to remain weeks ago. No brainer considering we have one of the best car plants in Nissan which is the major source of jobs and income in sunderland, who have already stated that they would prefer we remain. That and we build with EU money and also the North East is a net earner from the EU with a ration of £1 - £10 back. The EU has probably been more beneficial to us than a Tory majority gvt has been or will be. We also don't have a big issue with immigration in the region (not that it particularly matters either but you'd think otherwise speaking to some people up here). Besides Boris and Gove are hardly the people I'd want to trust with leading the country in the event that we do leave, for all it wouldn't be a catastrophic end of the world it would be detrimental in the short term and i'd much rather be secure so i can stay in a position to buy a house in a few years.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Boris Johnson is fucking hilarious. His cabinet would probably be a group of stuffed cats. his secretary of defence would be Gandalf and he'd tell everyone to ride to work on Unicorns.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



zrc said:


> Boris Johnson is fucking hilarious. His cabinet would probably be a group of stuffed cats. his secretary of defence would be Gandalf and he'd tell everyone to ride to work on Unicorns.


and then britain would know it was time, and conquer the world with an army of unicorns 

everyone will be required by law to possess a minimum of 4 stuffed cats and 4 cats that only look like theyre stuffed


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Just Be*Leave*.









(I'm American and only observing but I will applaud should "Brexit" prevail.)


----------



## Rowdy Yates (Nov 24, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



DesolationRow said:


> Just Be*Leave*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sadly it looks like Remain will be the electorates choice

Most bookmakers currently have Remain at odds of 1/7 which in terms of betting in a two horse race means its a certain banker


----------



## Curry (Jan 14, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

No official exit polls but folks from the financial sector are conducting widespread polling so trading should give an indication of how things are looking.

If you check out https://www.dailyfx.com/gbp-usd the big leap in USD/GBP over the last hour suggests the market has less doubt in the pound than it did this morning because they're seeing the polling lean towards remiain.

It's nothing huge but it's worth paying attention to.


----------



## DocBlue (Jul 30, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Will be interested to see the split in different parts of the UK


----------



## Rowdy Yates (Nov 24, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



DocBlue said:


> Will be interested to see the split in different parts of the UK


Would imagine places like Yorkshire and Lancashire are more leave than Remain. Will be interesting to see the breakdown of it though


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Didn't realize that another thread on the subject had been made.

I won't be staying up to see the result because I have work so I'll know literally when I wake up. It's going to be close either way.

#BREXIT .


----------



## Blackbeard (Apr 23, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Well I did my part and voted this morning. It's now up to the British people to decided whether they agree with me or not.

#Remain


----------



## Curry (Jan 14, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Yougov polling on the day breaking 52/48 for Remain and odds swinging heavily that way, looks like we're staying.


----------



## J-B (Oct 26, 2015)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Remain will get the most votes, no doubt. Shame really.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Nigel Farage says he thinks Remain will win.


----------



## Gandhi (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Top Shelf said:


> Would imagine places like Yorkshire and Lancashire are more leave than Remain. Will be interesting to see the breakdown of it though


My girl's from Lancashire and her entire family is voting to remain.

I've tried to convince her to re-think this, as I see the positives of the leave option as do I with the remain option and am quite unsure if I'm going to be honest and ashamed of my uncertainty at the same time. I don't know which option is the superior one by far, and most of the voters from what I've seen don't think these things through fully. It'd be interesting if the leave option won, highly unlikely though.


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Gandhi is basically pro-leave but too pussy whipped to say so. He never doesn't have an opinion.

Everyone voting Remain is a cuckold, no exceptions. Just like everyone who voted for Scotland to STAY is a cuckold.


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



DocBlue said:


> Will be interested to see the split in different parts of the UK


North vs South i'd imagine


----------



## Phaedra (Aug 15, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

God I'm nervous. I only hope the first minister doesn't call another referendum on Scottish independence tomorrow mornings for it's for leave ... Well I hope she does and doesn't at the same time lol #pollingstationfatigue 

Lol


----------



## Addychu (Nov 26, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

I voted in btw...


----------



## 256097 (Aug 11, 2013)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Father Ted said:


> North vs South i'd imagine


Some SNP supporters in Scotland will vote tactically to leave to push the agenda for another Scottish independence referendum, the flip side is a lot will vote to remain to prevent this. I'm guessing remain will be the result with something like a 60-40 split.


----------



## Blackbeard (Apr 23, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Phaedra said:


> #pollingstationfatigue


Are you working at one of the polling stations right now?


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

http://www.conservativehome.com/the...can-choose-our-own-future-outside-the-eu.html




> The question is whether Brussels will – or can – behave as Westminster did after the Scottish vote and devolve power. My guess is that a remain vote, however narrow, will be taken by Eurocrats as the end of 40 years of British stand-offishness. They’ll want to push ahead with full political merger, vindicated in their belief that, as the President of the European Parliament Martin Schulz puts it, “Britain belongs to the European Union”.
> 
> In another unhelpful (from Remain’s point of view) intervention, Jean-Claude Juncker said yesterday that there was no prospect of further reform if Britain voted to stay. We can’t claim we haven’t been warned.
> 
> ...


 Remainers simply do not understand that the EU Parliament does not hold the same principles for democracy and compromise to represent the electorate the way the British Government did for those who wanted Scottish Independence. There won't be reform if we vote to remain which even Farage is predicting will be the position that will win narrowly.


----------



## Blackbeard (Apr 23, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Gibraltar voted to remain. No surprise there.


----------



## Curry (Jan 14, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Odds being slashed on Leave. From 10/1 an hour ago down to 6/1 20 minutes ago and now tumbling through 5/1, 4/1 and now as low as 3/1 on Skybet/Bet365.


----------



## Phaedra (Aug 15, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Blackbeard said:


> Are you working at one of the polling stations right now?


No, i've got a friend working the glasgow count though ... he's not allowed his phone though lol. 

Nah i just meant in the last two years we've been to the polling station three fucking times, twice for huge ass referendums, i swear if i hear a fucking peep from another politician .... grrrr lol. 

I think they should all just go to sleep for a day, see their families, have a proper meal and then get back to us. lol. i'm so done lol.


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Top Shelf said:


> Agree 100% with this. Both parties have been far more interested in belittling the other rather than focusing on there own manifesto. I know this is usually the norm in politics but during this referendum it has hit new highs. There has been far more information as to why you should vote against rather than for


Maybe now you guys can empathise with us poor Americans who are caught between the bipolaralization of two parties that operate in nothing but extremes at both ends. Or at least convince their voters that they're at the extremes while secretly sleeping in the same bed when they actually get one or the other into power.


----------



## Braylyt (Jan 19, 2015)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Curry said:


> Odds being slashed on Leave. From 10/1 an hour ago down to 6/1 20 minutes ago and now tumbling through 5/1, 4/1 and now as low as 3/1 on Skybet/Bet365.


:book I can digg that

put some money up at 6/1

as long as the remain vote is between 40-55% I'm cashing regardless.


Having the nazis lose tonight/tomorrow morning would just be icing on the cake.


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

DocBlue said:


> Voted remain and sincerely hope to wake up tomorrow to such a result although the whole campaign from both sides has really left a sour taste in the mouth


This sums it up for me. By god some of the arguments by both sides have been fucking stupid


----------



## Curry (Jan 14, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Newcastle very close, looking quite worrying for remain right now.


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



L-DOPA said:


> In another unhelpful (from Remain’s point of view) intervention, Jean-Claude Juncker said yesterday that there was no prospect of further reform if Britain voted to stay. We can’t claim we haven’t been warned.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36599300

Why did no-one read the whole of the article?



> It is understood Mr Juncker was not referring to the prospect of future reforms in the event of the UK voting to remain in the EU, something Mr Cameron has insisted will continue, including in the key area of immigration and free movement.


 He is talking about 1 specific deal made very recently, not reform in general.


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Sunderland has voted to leave

30k margin


----------



## Curry (Jan 14, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

That's awful for remain in Sunderland. Saw 57% or so predicted with anything beyond that being very bad news. 82 to 51 is bad, bad news.


----------



## skypod (Nov 13, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Predicting Remain win. With a lot of Leavers from north England and any areas populated with non-Brits, while Scotland will be mostly remain along with South England, Wales and Northern Ireland (where immigration isn't nearly as big as it is in some Northern English cities).


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Very surprised how close Newcastle was and the margin Leave won in Sunderland. Early days though.


----------



## Curry (Jan 14, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

GBP lost 5 cents per pound on the dollar in 3 minutes after the Sunderland result :sodone

Slight overreaction in such a short timeframe but that's rough as fuck.


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

England was the birth place of the Magna Carta, still hope to free yourself from un-elected EU rulers who nobody really knows who they are or what they do. I expect the 1% rulers to win in the end tho. Leave would probably be winning by a large margin if it wasn't for some retard killing someone so she could be a martyr before her corpse was even cold. Can always count on the mentals to ruin something.


----------



## Mainboy (Jan 30, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Gonna be a interesting night.


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Curry said:


> GBP lost 5 cents per pound on the dollar in 3 minutes after the Sunderland result :sodone
> 
> Slight overreaction in such a short timeframe but that's rough as fuck.


I think it's a big overreaction tbh but it's definitely significant.


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Curry said:


> GBP lost 5 cents per pound on the dollar in 3 minutes after the Sunderland result :sodone
> 
> Slight overreaction in such a short timeframe but that's rough as fuck.


These knee jerk reactions don't matter in the long run.


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Lou Generation Era said:


> These knee jerk reactions don't matter in the long run.


Gotta scare those peasants to keep them in line. :ghost


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Brexit not done for yet :mark:

Are the pollsters going to be embarrassed again :mark:

Is the bad news for Remain in the last two hours a sign of something or will Remain remain on course to win :mark:

Find out tomorrow tomorrow tomorrow :mark:


----------



## Curry (Jan 14, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Turnout in Glasgow only 56.2%, slightly embarrassing performance and not a strong one for the remain camp.


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Curry said:


> Turnout in Glasgow only 56.2%, slightly embarrassing performance and not a strong one for the remain camp.


Don't worry, mail in votes will put voting percentage at like 150%+ for remain in some areas, massive, unexplained votes are the key to any victory.


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

Miss Sally said:


> Lou Generation Era said:
> 
> 
> > These knee jerk reactions don't matter in the long run.
> ...


That makes no sense. You know voting is closed?


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Alastair Campbell is such a cunt. Just pointing that out.


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Roy Mustang said:


> That makes no sense. You know voting is closed?


What's that have to do with keeping people in line? You know "Look what you guys have done, see see!" comes to mind. Did you think of that?


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

Miss Sally said:


> Roy Mustang said:
> 
> 
> > That makes no sense. You know voting is closed?
> ...


Or people who money invested worried about business leaving :draper2 (doubt it happens if we leave even as a remain voter)


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Roy Mustang said:


> Or people who money invested worried about business leaving :draper2 (doubt it happens if we leave even as a remain voter)


Never know but this whole campaign on both sides has been about scare tactics for the most part. Simply the point I'm making, if it looks like Leave will win I could see overreactions to it. Let's try not to pretend that Politicians and Businesses don't do things like this.


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

Agreed. Both sides made it hard for me to make an informed decision on it. Can easily see panic setting in


----------



## Irish Jet (Nov 15, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

The Campaigns on both sides were disgraceful.

Have to say these polls seem to have completely fucked it again. How many Farages, Corbyns, Sanders', Trumps do you need before it becomes obvious people want to tear up the status quo.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Turnout in London is said to be 2-3% lower than expected, possibly thanks to the rain there today.

That's not good for the Remain campaign.


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

corbyn has been a disaster

expect a coup if leave wins


----------



## Irish Jet (Nov 15, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Father Ted said:


> corbyn has been a disaster
> 
> expect a coup if leave wins


He's actually been one of the best in terms of reasonable debate, if not the most influential (which may be more important). He's willing to look at it from both sides and isn't saying the world will end if we indeed end up leaving. 

He's not very high on the EU anyways and never really has been. The guy that would be fucked is Cameron.


----------



## Braylyt (Jan 19, 2015)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Remain 48.6%
Leave 51.4%

As of 1:30


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

agree about corbyns heart not being in the eu project, still expect him to be ousted tho for soldier man. I'm a conservative but i fucking despise cameron, he's a fucking coward. 

also, lol at Lindsey lohan tweeting about the referendum


----------



## Blackbeard (Apr 23, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Why is Lindsay Lohan tweeting about this? :CENA


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Blackbeard said:


> Why is Lindsay Lohan tweeting about this? :CENA


Maybe she knows what Great Britain should do? Someone should have her call the Prime Minister directly.


----------



## Curry (Jan 14, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Odds shifting in favour of leave for the first time :mj2


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Early signs that Wales are voting BREXIT.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Leave now up over 140,000 votes. Plenty of time for Remain to come back but Scotland and London need to deliver.

EDIT: Scotland delivering for Remain as Leave only up by 20,000 votes now after several Scottish results have come in.


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

my heart can't take this


----------



## Curry (Jan 14, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Odds now dead even, Pound resettling vs Dollar and Euro, no one with a fucking clue how this is going :done

LONDON PLS


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

The fat cats in Brussels licking their chops. :ha


----------



## BruiserKC (Mar 14, 2010)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Watching ITV's coverage on C-Span...Remain up now by less than 70,000 votes. 

Question for our Briton members of the site...what would be the vote differential that would trigger (if it's able to) a recount?


----------



## FriedTofu (Sep 29, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

And now Remains seem to be leading. This is a really close vote.


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

I'm predicting Remain will still edge it due to Scotland, London and the bigger voting constituencies.


----------



## The Ultimate Warrior (Oct 19, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Many Scots wanted to leave the UK but a majority of Scots want to stay with the EU
:nowords


----------



## Curry (Jan 14, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



The Ultimate Warrior said:


> Many Scots wanted to leave the UK but a majority of Scots want to stay with the EU
> :nowords


If remain win very slightly, there's the possibility that slightly more than half Scots and more than half of England want us to leave the union but we'd remain part of the UK. Could be wildly entertaining.


----------



## Funaki7 (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



The Ultimate Warrior said:


> Many Scots wanted to leave the UK but a majority of Scots want to stay with the EU
> :nowords


I'm a Scot who would want to leave UK and stay in EU.

I'm don't identify as British. When I need to click my nationality on a form, I'm forced into clicking United Kingdom even though I honestly couldn't give two fucks about England and Wales. I want Scotland to be identified as it's own country and not part of this English monarchy which has never had anything to do with us. Scotland fought for independence, and now 55% of the country are like "Yeah, fighting for independence is cool, but what about this materialistic thing?".

Really, UK shouldn't leave EU. EU typically is the one pushing forward on all the good grants and stuff from my experience. But, I want Scottish independence. AKA, Brexit + second Scottish referendum = Winning for me.


----------



## Braylyt (Jan 19, 2015)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

UKIP are destroying labour 

what a disaster, this could all have been avoided if they'd just acknowledged the immigration problem 

labour have committed suicide


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Leave back up over 140,000 vote lead. 

Whichever side wins it's gonna be close as fuck

EDIT: They're getting in results quick now, Leave now up by almost 300,000 votes.

London suburbs need to come through huge for Remain. Must. Have to.


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

it's over

not enough remain strongholds


----------



## Curry (Jan 14, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

This is gone barring some total madness in London. Can't believe how much this has swung 

See you in a few years for another Scottish Indpendence referendum.


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Almost 300,000 lead for leave :mark: :mark: :mark:.

Gonna go to bed now, going to be interesting to see what result I wake up to.

EDIT: Over 300,000 now.


----------



## Funaki7 (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Me: "What? How could Glasgow vote remain? I thought we wanted independence?!?!?"

*Stops for 10 seconds*

Me: "Ahhhhh I'm stupid".


----------



## Funaki7 (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

With Sterling falling big...does that mean it's good time to exchange money for sterling as you'd get more?


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Curry said:


> This is gone barring some total madness in London. Can't believe how much this has swung
> 
> See you in a few years for another Scottish Indpendence referendum.


see you in a few decades for another battle of falkirk :mark:


----------



## IronMaiden7 (Mar 9, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

The Sterling drop is already worse than Black Wednesday 1992. Woof.


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

im a fucking idiot for not betting on leave at 6/1


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

Well this is worrying tbh


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Roy Mustang said:


> Well this is worrying tbh


Leave is up by 500,000 votes at the moment.

I'd say that's worrying for Remain. 

Reports are coming in that the Labour Party has concluded Leave will win and is planning for the aftermath (mostly, do they call for Cameron to resign or keep quiet because he will resign on his own).

Leave leads in England by over a million votes. In Wales by over 100,000.

Remain leads in Northern Ireland by about 70,000. Remain leads in Scotland by about 600,000.

Scotland can't save Remain all on it's own.


----------



## Curry (Jan 14, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

1/9 on Leave now, game over. Not enough left in Scotland and the remaining parts of London not as one-sided as others.


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Farage looks like a fucking idiot now for conceding so early


----------



## Curry (Jan 14, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Hitting 2009-level lows vs the dollar now :sodone


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Father Ted said:


> Farage looks like a fucking idiot now for conceding so early


Yeah his tough guy image took a hit, he folded like a cheap suit so early when he could have looked not only strong but prescient by sticking to the 'Leave will win' line.


----------



## Phaedra (Aug 15, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

No sleep. this is terrible for england, wales and northern ireland, terrible. 

see yeez later though, you're not dragging us out of the eu.


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

Father Ted said:


> Farage looks like a fucking idiot now for conceding so early


Well he is a fucking idiot


----------



## Funaki7 (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Phaedra said:


> No sleep. this is terrible for england, wales and northern ireland, terrible.
> 
> see yeez later though, you're not dragging us out of the eu.


You don't get the point do you?

UK votes leave.
Scotland votes remain.

Enter Nicola Sturgeon.


----------



## Funaki7 (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Curry said:


> Hitting 2009-level lows vs the dollar now :sodone


I'm not too knowledgeable on it all, but literally any day now I could be moving back to Scotland from Ireland (waiting on a job to come through). Does the pound falling mean it's a good time to exchange the euro to pound?


----------



## Curry (Jan 14, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

I'll be honest, I couldn't tell you. 

I know that you'll get more Pounds for your Euros today than you would have yesterday but I have no clue where things will be tomorrow.


----------



## Frost99 (Apr 24, 2006)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Phaedra said:


> No sleep. this is terrible for england, wales and northern ireland, terrible.
> 
> see yeez later though, you're not dragging us out of the eu.


Maybe it's me & the country I live in, while the original idea of ONE common market was SMART thinking after WWII, when 1993 came around & un-elected SCUM thought it be a good idea to get a political hat in that common ring then that should have been the EXIT sign there & then.

Fact of the matter is for every action there is an equal & opposite reaction, the "leave" the EU is that action which if steered in the right direction 10 years ago wouldn't have had this much of a negative effect. But come on, short term pain for a FREE COUNTRY. 

Same goes for Scotland if this triggers anther "independent" vote than do it, hell I wish the rest of Canada had the chance to vote Quebec out so many years ago, then we wouldn't have had the Paris Hilton of Politics we have 2day.


----------



## Phaedra (Aug 15, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Funaki7 said:


> You don't get the point do you?
> 
> UK votes leave.
> Scotland votes remain.
> ...


I know, I just don't have the energy to hit the streets campaigning for independence again given that it happened so recently and it was fucking exhausting. 

Just because it looks like we're getting another referendum doesn't mean I don't feel incredibly sad and worried for the family I have in england and all my colleagues in universities in england and northern ireland also. I fear for the jobs in redcar, and in sunderland, these people have been through enough hardship.


----------



## Funaki7 (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Frost99 said:


> Maybe it's me & the country I live in, while the original idea of ONE common market was SMART thinking after WWII, when 1993 came around & un-elected SCUM thought it be a good idea to get a political hat in that common ring then that should have been the EXIT sign there & then.
> 
> Fact of the matter is for every action there is an equal & opposite reaction, the "leave" the EU is that action which if steered in the right direction 10 years ago would have had this much of a negative effect. But come on, short term pain for a FREE COUNTRY.
> 
> Same goes for Scotland if this triggers anther "independent" vote than do it, hell I wish the rest of Canada had the chance to vote Quebec out so many years ago, then we wouldn't have had the Paris Hilton of Politics we have 2day.


Canada's insane. You guys can drive 1 hour in your car and suddenly not a single person speaks English anymore yet they are 100% as Canadian as you. Weird shit haha.

I 100% would want Scotland to stay part of the EU. Just safer in terms of things like my college grant and stuff like that which I reckon would go without any back up.


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Phaedra said:


> No sleep. this is terrible for england, wales and northern ireland, terrible.
> 
> see yeez later though, you're not dragging us out of the eu.


england isn't going to turn into the mid east or africa because they leave the EU.


----------



## 4everEyebrowRaisin (Feb 25, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

It's not over yet, folks.

I bet those Remain fuckers somehow pull it out of the bag.


----------



## Funaki7 (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Curry said:


> I'll be honest, I couldn't tell you.
> 
> I know that you'll get more Pounds for your Euros today than you would have yesterday but I have no clue where things will be tomorrow.


I for some reason doubted my obvious logic, but when money drops = Good time to exchange to that money (specifically if you are going to be using that other currency).

Mind you, outside of the post office I don't even know a place which exchanges money and if I'm right the fuckers all charge for it anyways.



Phaedra said:


> I know, I just don't have the energy to hit the streets campaigning for independence again given that it happened so recently and it was fucking exhausting.
> 
> Just because it looks like we're getting another referendum doesn't mean I don't feel incredibly sad and worried for the family I have in england and all my colleagues in universities in england and northern ireland also. I fear for the jobs in redcar, and in sunderland, these people have been through enough hardship.


I was in Ireland for it so I missed the dejection last time.

Although as for your last paragraph, I think you just have too many feelings haha.


----------



## paladin errant (Apr 23, 2016)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

*"The votes of more than 230 of 382 constituencies were stripped and Leave is still leading with 51.3% of votes. Despite the results fell in several major cities, such as Manchester and Edinburgh, in favor of maintaining the UK in the EU, it is still assuming a Brexit who, at 5 in the morning, remained the most likely ."*

i'm speechless...i'm for the brexit,nothing against the UK people but you took all the advantages and no disadvantages, which is unfair to the members of other EU countries,and yet I believe that with all these advantages, you have done everything to stay in the EU..

i hope the "leave" will win but I did not believe one second...


----------



## FriedTofu (Sep 29, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

It's going to be a long two years of negotiations now...


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

england isn't going to be giving scotland another referendum any time soon

england is feeling its oats once more


----------



## Phaedra (Aug 15, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Frost99 said:


> Maybe it's me & the country I live in, while the original idea of ONE common market was SMART thinking after WWII, when 1993 came around & un-elected SCUM thought it be a good idea to get a political hat in that common ring then that should have been the EXIT sign there & then.
> 
> Fact of the matter is for every action there is an equal & opposite reaction, the "leave" the EU is that action which if steered in the right direction 10 years ago wouldn't have had this much of a negative effect. But come on, short term pain for a FREE COUNTRY.
> 
> Same goes for Scotland if this triggers anther "independent" vote than do it, hell I wish the rest of Canada had the chance to vote Quebec out so many years ago, then we wouldn't have had the Paris Hilton of Politics we have 2day.


Ou whole political landscape is steered by unelected officials in the house of lords and the vast amount of civil servants, the ngo's and corporations. The EU is really no different. We elect members to the european parliament to guide the direction of eu policy just as we do to westminster or holyrood to direct that policy. 

There is peace in europe because we are not competing with one another, because we put money in the pot and make sure none of the other countries get left behind to make sure that a hugely volatile region of the world is balanced. It is one of the most important facets of our lives and without it ... well it's just upsetting. We fought multiple wars through the centuries to have peace in europe and one night it has been cast aside.


----------



## Phaedra (Aug 15, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



deepelemblues said:


> england isn't going to be giving scotland another referendum any time soon
> 
> england is feeling its oats once more


Yeah, eh, they won't have to give us anything thanks, we'll be taking this one. thanks.

tired now, must try to sleep in vain.


----------



## Curry (Jan 14, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

North Wales voting so heavily for leave is honestly fucking mental. How does someone vote so hard against their own interests?

The success of the horrible campaign from leave's point of view (I'll admit remain was a horrible campaign too) sets a really bad precedent for future national debates.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

lol Brexit is winning


banterrrrrrr


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Phaedra said:


> Yeah, eh, they won't have to give us anything thanks, we'll be taking this one. thanks.


that's the only way it's going to happen and it's just as likely that scotland backs down from the threat of some kind of war as england backs down from the threat of some kind of war 

scottish independence isn't going to be as simple as declaring it and expecting england to roll over, especially with the nationalist political climate that is clearly gaining power with each passing day in england. to the english that nationalism includes scotland staying right where it is, in the UK.


----------



## Funaki7 (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



deepelemblues said:


> that's the only way it's going to happen and it's just as likely that scotland backs down from the threat of some kind of war as england backs down from the threat of some kind of war
> 
> scottish independence isn't going to be as simple as declaring it and expecting england to roll over, especially with the nationalist political climate that is clearly gaining power with each passing day in england. to the english that nationalism includes scotland staying right where it is, in the UK.


England can take 55% of Scotland if they want, considering 55% of Scotland want to be English. Then they can be all lovely and national together.

I'm part of the Scotland that don't want to be a part of, and don't wanted to be associated with England's nationalism.


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

my city birmingham has voted to leave


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Funaki7 said:


> England can take 55% of Scotland if they want, considering 55% of Scotland want to be English. Then they can be all lovely and national together.
> 
> I'm part of the Scotland that don't want to be a part of, and don't wanted to be associated with England's nationalism.


tell me about it that's half the story of scotland. the other half is the english not giving a fuck what the scottish want or don't want to be a part of and being strong enough to not give a fuck.


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

Well on the plus side at least my city voted to stay so there is that


----------



## Braylyt (Jan 19, 2015)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Leave up 700K LMAO

beat the nazis again

made 51 euros (not pounds, euros are still worth something)


not a bad night


----------



## 4everEyebrowRaisin (Feb 25, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Could not give a fuck less if Scotland decided to have another go at leaving. The scaremongering we've had to put up with from Remain _should_ have kept Britain in the EU, but it looks as though that's not what's happened.

Maybe, just maybe, the majority of Scotland actually _wanted_ to be a part of the UK? You can put it down to whatever reason you want, but I don't see the result of another Scottish vote being any fucking different from the last one.


----------



## Phaedra (Aug 15, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



deepelemblues said:


> that's the only way it's going to happen and it's just as likely that scotland backs down from the threat of some kind of war as england backs down from the threat of some kind of war
> 
> scottish independence isn't going to be as simple as declaring it and expecting england to roll over, especially with the nationalist political climate that is clearly gaining power with each passing day in england. to the english that nationalism includes scotland staying right where it is, in the UK.


Back down? from what? why would they want to keep us? there isn't going to be a war. Scotland wants to be part of the EU. There is a conflict here, if you want to be part of the UK you can't be part of the EU and vice versa, that has been decided for us. 

It's not like if the north east of england declared they were going to hold a referendum to separate, or any other region. We are not a region, we have a long history as a separate nation and if we want to take our nationhood back as a sovereign nation we shall declare that to westminster and they will have no say on whether we have a referendum on the matter because frankly there is a mandate for it. The people have spoken without a gun having been raised.

again too tired for this. it's really quite obvious the discussion and the political actions that are about to arise from this referendum, and it needs no permission apart from the permission of the scottish people and it pretty much looks like that was just given.


----------



## Funaki7 (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



deepelemblues said:


> tell me about it that's half the story of scotland. the other half is the english not giving a fuck what the scottish want or don't want to be a part of and being strong enough to not give a fuck.


If I'm correct, it would be an external thing which England would struggle to contain. I know zero about politics but I'm led to believe that the Scottish referendum, not unlike the first time, would be something irrefutable which England would have to sit back and watch.

All we can hope is that a large portion of that 55% want to remain in the EU, since they love voting to remain part of things, and the rest of the UK from right now onwards votes Leave so it will trigger something in that 55%. A large part of that 55% is likely the rich and capitalist who see culture and nationalism as a backfoot to capitalism and business, which if I'm right, is benefited from staying in the EU.

The rest are scumbag Rangers fans who spit on the Scottish flag and wave their Union Jack in the air, voting against their own independence to be part of a country who occupied them via force.


----------



## Curry (Jan 14, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



4everEyebrowRaisin said:


> Could not give a fuck less if Scotland decided to have another go at leaving. The scaremongering we've had to put up with from Remain _should_ have kept Britain in the EU, but it looks as though that's not what's happened.
> 
> Maybe, just maybe, the majority of Scotland actually _wanted_ to be a part of the UK? You can put it down to whatever reason you want, but I don't see the result of another Scottish vote being any fucking different from the last one.


A marginal majority of Scots voted to remain part of the union when:

1) Promises which have not been kept were made by Westminster
2) A Tory majority was not seen as being likely
3) We were still part of the EU, something that Scots have proven tonight to be overwhelmingly in favour of

If I were a betting man I'd be very much backing a yes vote if we have another referendum.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Phaedra said:


> Back down? from what? why would they want to keep us? there isn't going to be a war. Scotland wants to be part of the EU. It's not like if the north east of england declared they were going to hold a referendum to separate, or any other region. We are not a region, we have a long history as a separate nation and if we want to take our nationhood back as a sovereign nation we shall declare that to westminster and they will have no say on whether we have a referendum on the matter because frankly there is a mandate for it. The people have spoken without a gun having been raised.
> 
> again too tired for this. it's really quite obvious the discussion and the political actions that are about to arise from this referendum, and it needs no permission apart from the permission of the scottish people and it pretty much looks like that was just given.


i hope you're right but i really really doubt it's going to be that easy, or that tonight's vote means anything official for scottish independence. independence lost the referendum, this wasn't a re-do. tonight the scottish people gave no permission to anything regarding independence is the position westminster is certainly going to take. scotland can't just ignore england because scots are really mad at england or something. the world's a little more complicated than that. and they aren't going to get another referendum from england just by pointing at tonight's results in scotland, or just by indignantly demanding it. a lot of hard work ahead.


----------



## Green Light (Sep 17, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Does this mean they'll kick us out of the Eurovision Song Contest brehs? :hogan


----------



## Mainboy (Jan 30, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

When does this actually kick in. 

Take it according to those on the BBC will take 2 years if I'm correct?


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

lol at john oliver btw


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

http://www.bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results

:hmm: @Father Ted @Fringe @L-DOPA @Miss Sally @samizayn @Top Shelf


----------



## DeeGirl (Aug 18, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Goodbye Europe. I'm actually stunned it's a leave vote.


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*






:mj2 The UK did it. They rose above fear-mongering and against the rising globalist tide. 

Hopefully the people who voted Remain do some soul-searching to figure out why they were in such a state of cuckoldry they were willing to stand with an unelectable, unaccountable foreign cabal (which makes about 50% of their laws) over their own nation. I can't begin to relate to such a sad state of being. Be better.

Also, be vigilant British patriots. The globalists won't take this lying down and have already been openly talking about how to circumvent a Leave result. Don't forget about what you tried to accomplish today and just go on with your lives thinking it's over.


----------



## Funaki7 (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



DesolationRow said:


> http://www.bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results
> 
> :hmm: @Father Ted @Fringe @L-DOPA @Miss Sally @samizayn @Top Shelf


That map is a beautiful site. Scotland united, almost the entire opposite of what England want. This is what we needed.


----------



## paladin errant (Apr 23, 2016)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

it starts

"*The Nikkei index of the Tokyo Stock Exchange plunged more than 6% after the resumption of midday, investors, very feverish, fearing growing output of Britain from the European Union.
The Nikkei gave up more than 1,000 points to 15,200.56 yen, while the headlights stock collapsed, at Toyota's image sank by about 9%. Voting for release EU UK was leading with 51.7% of votes after counting in 200 of the 382 centers in the country, according to the official count.

Faced with this drop in the yen, Japanese Finance Minister convened the press.*"


----------



## Natecore (Sep 16, 2013)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Yay Secession!!! :mark:


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Rather surreal I'll admit. I wonder what happens now.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

BAH GAWD THEY'VE DONE IT

BRITAIN HAS BROKEN THE EU IN HALF

Jean-Claude Juncker and the rest can make all the threats they like, they're going to wake up tomorrow not thinking about how to punish Britain for voting Leave like they've been threatening, they're going to wake up worrying which country is going to hold a Leave the EU vote next. All it takes is one more and the floodgates will be open. Another vote in another country that chooses to stay in the EU would close them up again, thanks to Britain they're on the way to being open but it's gonna take one more either way to set the momentum, perhaps irreversibly.


----------



## Curry (Jan 14, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Gotta wonder how long Cameron and Corbyn can survive this, both have clearly failed their party and were hardly in the clear before this result. Wouldn't be surprised if one or even both went in the next few months.


----------



## IronMaiden7 (Mar 9, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Dow futures have now plummeted 600 points. 

Uh oh.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Curry said:


> Gotta wonder how long Cameron and Corbyn can survive this, both have clearly failed their party and were hardly in the clear before this result. Wouldn't be surprised if one or even both went in the next few months.


Cameron should, must, and will resign.

Well the "will" part is kinda iffy.

The Labour Party jiggered itself to be Corbyn's bitch as basically as long as he wants.


----------



## DeeGirl (Aug 18, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

God Bless Britannia :mj2 


Absolutely delighted about this, no thanks to my own Scotland :side:


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

And the pound keeps falling. Great just at the time i will be needing dollars. For goodness sake. Hopefully i am wrong and in 2 years we are stronger but i fucking doubt it.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Agreed, cannot see how Cameron can survive this politically. Ostensibly, he must fall on his sword at the altar of corporatist globalism.


----------



## FriedTofu (Sep 29, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

The bloodbath will continue once Europe markets open.


----------



## paladin errant (Apr 23, 2016)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

The Remain outweighs the Brexit a very short advance in Leeds. With 194,863 votes for the maintenance of the United Kingdom in the European Union, against 192 474 for release, the victory of pro-European is particularly tight.


----------



## Funaki7 (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



DeeGuy said:


> God Bless Britannia :mj2
> 
> 
> Absolutely delighted about this, no thanks to my own Scotland :side:


This is without doubt the best possible thing that could happen for Scotland if the leave vote continues.

Freedom from UK > Freedom from EU.


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Funaki7 said:


> This is without doubt the best possible thing that could happen for Scotland if the leave vote continues.
> 
> Freedom from UK > Freedom from EU.


Why not both? :draper2


----------



## DeeGirl (Aug 18, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Funaki7 said:


> This is without doubt the best possible thing that could happen for Scotland if the leave vote continues.
> 
> Freedom from UK > Freedom from EU.


Shows there is definitely a divide anyway, be interesting to see what happens next regarding independence for Scotland.


----------



## 4everEyebrowRaisin (Feb 25, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

I am stunned that this is actually a fucking thing that is happening right now. I thought for sure we didn't stand a chance, but we fucking did it. We actually fucking did it.

If you want to stand tall, the growing pains are necessary. Things _will_ settle eventually; it's a certainty.


----------



## J-B (Oct 26, 2015)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

never in a million years did I imagine leave winning this entire thing :shockedpunk

Love how everyone who voted remain on Twitter resorts to name calling anyone who decided to vote leave.


----------



## BRITLAND (Jun 17, 2012)

DeeGuy said:


> Funaki7 said:
> 
> 
> > This is without doubt the best possible thing that could happen for Scotland if the leave vote continues.
> ...


Nicola Sturgeon is apparently going to make a statement regarding this at Bute House around 10am.


----------



## paladin errant (Apr 23, 2016)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

"*This is Stephen Grabb, secretary for employment and pensions, that returns the thankless task to recognize the defeat of the government camp for the "Remain".

"I think we are disconnected from the white working class," he said. "We have not been able to pass on our message. When we tried to explain how the EU single market is beneficial for their jobs, their livelihoods, we have not sent these messages successfully" did he lamented.

For the minister, "the old industrial areas of the white working class clearly not believed" the government's intentions.

Stephen Grabb, however, felt that it was "absolutely essential" that David Cameron remains Prime Minister. A desire confirmed by supporting early evening by many Conservatives, including Boris Johnson, the tenant of Downing Street. But other conservative voices, among the most ardent activists "Brexit" amounted to challenge his leadership*."


----------



## Funaki7 (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



CamillePunk said:


> Why not both? :draper2


Too difficult. Scotland already voted to stay with UK. That was essentially us giving up our opportunity for independence long term.

As a result, that essentially means Scotland's only possibility of getting independence from the UK is to side with the EU. So as for the near future, and I mean near as in minimum of like 10 years or probably loads more, Scotland is either in the UK without EU (if Leave vote goes through) or without UK and in the EU (depending on a referendum, the leave vote and Scotland actually getting the vote right like normal people this time).



DeeGuy said:


> Shows there is definitely a divide anyway, be interesting to see what happens next regarding independence for Scotland.


Well, SNP are pretty confident we get a second shot and Sturgeon is a hell of a lot better than Salmond so there's a really good shot.


----------



## IronMaiden7 (Mar 9, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Anyone planning on visiting the UK should do so now. It'll be dirt cheap for a while.


----------



## Funaki7 (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



BRITLAND said:


> Nicola Sturgeon is apparently going to make a statement regarding this at Bute House around 10am.


Nicola for Prime Minister, then she heel turns and declares Scotland independent. Then she moons the queen and gets an arrow shot into her arse cheek for her effort.


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Now complete your journey back to greatness by electing Farage as your PM. :drose


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

CamillePunk said:


> Now complete your journey back to greatness by electing Farage as your PM.


Please tell me you are trolling. He is a disgusting human being and a racist (no not because he supported leave). I would rather cameron or even boris johnson over him which is saying something


----------



## Funaki7 (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Sinn Fein demanding a vote for a united Ireland.


Fuck off Ireland, you have the Euros, independence is our thing.


----------



## J-B (Oct 26, 2015)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*


----------



## 4everEyebrowRaisin (Feb 25, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

The implications are pretty immense though! A change in leadership is guaranteed, Cameron will probably call it quits today. Fucking hell. It's quite unbelievable, really.

This is huge.


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

I just want to take this time out to say to all of you that no matter which side of the argument you are on, that it has been a tremendous honour and privilege to experience this moment with you all. This event will surely be talked about for hundreds of years.


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Don't feel sad a bunch of other Euro countries are going to have their own votes! Many were waiting on the vote. Fuck Globalism!


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

What does Nigel have left to do now :curry2

He's won


----------



## 4everEyebrowRaisin (Feb 25, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Miss Sally said:


> Don't feel sad a bunch of other Euro countries are going to have their own votes! Many were waiting on the vote. Fuck Globalism!


The EU is fucking done for, man. We'll be at the forefront of that when they talk about this in years to come, how we started it all.


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Where is Cretinhop, he was saying Remain was gonna win big time!


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE (Sep 12, 2013)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Wow, I was unsure if the Leave vote would win based on the polls. It's now a reality. I hope this works out well. Congrats to those who voted for the exit.


----------



## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Roy Mustang said:


> Please tell me you are trolling. He is a disgusting human being and a racist (no not because he supported leave). I would rather cameron or even boris johnson over him which is saying something


He supports Trump, why would you think he is trolling? Farage is the Trump of Europe, plus Farage backed Trump as well


----------



## paladin errant (Apr 23, 2016)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

i'm proud of you England!


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*










Captain Freedom gives his congrats! Scotland, vote for your freedom! Europe cast off the shackles of the monarchs you once fought against! Don't let them divide you by purposely causing chaos to subvert your freedoms!


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Roy Mustang said:


> Please tell me you are trolling. He is a disgusting human being and a racist (no not because he supported leave). I would rather cameron or even boris johnson over him which is saying something


Is he actually racist or is he 'racist' like Donald Trump? If so, cite concrete evidence please.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Nationalism on the march :Vince


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



CamillePunk said:


> Is he actually racist or is he 'racist' like Donald Trump? If so, cite concrete evidence please.


What is evidence and facts? I thought if enough people called you something without any sort of proof or reason that's what you were? Or does that only work if you're a leftist? :nerd:


----------



## 3MB4Life (Apr 3, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Roy Mustang said:


> Please tell me you are trolling. He is a disgusting human being and a racist (no not because he supported leave). I would rather cameron or even boris johnson over him which is saying something


Evidence please.


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

CamillePunk said:


> Roy Mustang said:
> 
> 
> > Please tell me you are trolling. He is a disgusting human being and a racist (no not because he supported leave). I would rather cameron or even boris johnson over him which is saying something
> ...


Will find some exact once computer loads but have seen make comment blaming immigrants for everything and said women with children are worth less then men on financial centres.

Also said he was more worried about the social side of the issue and would protisie it over market growth


----------



## IronMaiden7 (Mar 9, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Tata Steel might be closing UK production, which means 14,000 jobs now hang in the balance.

Will the UK just nationalize it?


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

From a quick google search this seems to be the basis for the "racist" charge:










Sigh. Leftists be fucking retarded.



Roy Mustang said:


> Will find some exact once computer loads but have seen make comment blaming immigrants for everything and said women with children are worth less then men on financial centres.
> 
> Also said he was more worried about the social side of the issue and would protisie it over market growth


There is no racial content in this post.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



CamillePunk said:


> From a quick google search this seems to be the basis for the "racist" charge:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah well you see if you don't allow in an unlimited number of poor people into your country who don't speak your language and have no interest in changing their behavior to suit your country's cultural norms you're a mean racist bad bad. They > you because well because :draper2 oh and because it would be racist to act like you have a say over the place you were born in. That's just racist and wrong, people from 5,000 miles away who give 0 fucks about your way of life get the say in how life is going to be in the place you were born in. If you don't like it tough shit, that means you're a racist and racists are basically subhuman so fuck them.


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

CamillePunk said:


> From a quick google search this seems to be the basis for the "racist" charge:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I did say i was doing a quick google search now to find some of his past quotes. Even so his comments are stupid and that poster sums up the basis on both sides of the campaign. FEAR

That was not even the basis for my view on him. Just sums up how bad both sides have been with campaigns like that


----------



## Rowdy Yates (Nov 24, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



DesolationRow said:


> http://www.bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results
> 
> :hmm: @Father Ted @Fringe @L-DOPA @Miss Sally @samizayn @Top Shelf


Great news Deso :mark: :mark: :mark:

I sat at home 2 years ago watching the European parliament elections were UKIP won 24 seats and every single Labour and Conservative MP who spoke that night were so quick to mock Nigel Farage as a right wing lunatic and a joker. Not a one of them MPs heeded the warnings of how pissed of the British public are with failed promises and most of all the immigration problems that we are suffering. Well today the left wing scaremongers can go and fuck themselves. The smug fuckers have continued to mock and degrade Farage on his polices and campaign posters totally unaware that the majority of the public had a similar mindset to him.

I am proper shocked that for once the British public have stood up for themselves, done something about it and made what i believe is the correct call

There is allready tory MPs saying that no way should Cameron go to Brussels and activate article 50 of the lisbon treaty which will start the clock and give us 2 years to get out. So after a referendum where democracy has took place and the British public have made there choice these arrogant fuckwits still think they can call the shots and dismiss the result of the election. What a set of out of touch private educated wankers

Fair play to David Cameron for sticking to the promise he made in his general election manifesto and calling this referendum .He stood by his word and delivered on it


----------



## 3MB4Life (Apr 3, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Roy Mustang said:


> Will find some exact once computer loads but have seen make comment blaming immigrants for everything and said women with children are worth less then men on financial centres.
> 
> Also said he was more worried about the social side of the issue and would protisie it over market growth


Are immigrants a race now?


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Roy Mustang said:


> I did say i was doing a quick google search now to find some of his past quotes. Even so his comments are stupid and that poster sums up the basis on both sides of the campaign. FEAR
> 
> That was not even the basis for my view on him. Just sums up how bad both sides have been with campaigns like that


You do have something to fear from the refugee crisis though. If you don't think so then perhaps you should do some research on how migrants are getting along in Germany and Sweden. Let's just say they're learning a thing or two about *real* rape culture.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



CamillePunk said:


> You do have something to fear from the refugee crisis though. If you don't think so then perhaps you should do some research on how migrants are getting along in Germany and Sweden. Let's just say they're learning a thing or two about *real* rape culture.


So has the UK, in Rotherham. Which was worse than anything that's happened in Scandinavia or Germany.


----------



## Rowdy Yates (Nov 24, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



deepelemblues said:


> So has the UK, in Rotherham. Which was worse than anything that's happened in Scandinavia or Germany.


http://www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/leo-mckinstry/561997/Asian-gangs-were-allowed-to-prey-on-vulnerable-girls

Amongst other place


----------



## Funaki7 (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

The prospect of an independent Scotland and a united Ireland after today is a pretty fucking exciting concept.

People bang on about the politics all the time and how much money people will have and stuff, but you find an Irish person in the world today that goes on Facebook and looks at these fans over in France and doesn't think "The famine, the troubles, the wars....it was all worth it".

I'm just from a side of thinking that I never wanted to be associated with the UK. I see people talk about it from America as if being from Scotland and England is the exact same thing. I'd make it about 2 hours south before people stop understanding me. Scotland is as much England as Ireland is Scotland. They are all different nations and it'd be good for them all to be treated as such.

Only downside is the possibility of upping the troubles in the north again. A united Ireland with those who want to be British emigrating to England, everyone would be happy...right?


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

CamillePunk said:


> Roy Mustang said:
> 
> 
> > I did say i was doing a quick google search now to find some of his past quotes. Even so his comments are stupid and that poster sums up the basis on both sides of the campaign. FEAR
> ...


Cool instead of focusing on the issues that could benifit everyone lefts scare everyone? What is the plan for the economy? 

I ain't left wing or any wing. Remain have been embrassing as well with the fear.

Immigration is fine to worry about but is in no way as a big a deal as other issues in the uk. Of course migration should be managed but we need it to remain strong as a nation. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol....-No-blacks.-No-Irish-is-now-Ukip-policy.html

I found this article which show him saying companies should not be punished for discrimation. 

The man has very little policys other then immigration worries from what i know of him and the members of his party are terrible or at least a portion are. 

Maybe racist is the wrong word. Xenophobic may the correct term.


Don't get me wrong if someone who supported takes over fine but not UKIP. Urgh at that


----------



## IronMaiden7 (Mar 9, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

UK pension funds are already underwater. Damn.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE (Sep 12, 2013)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Nikkei is currently down 8%. Gold is up $76 while oil is down over $3. Going to be interesting to chart the economic fallout from this.


----------



## Funaki7 (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Let UKIP take over. The more stupid and feeble the British government, the better.


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Funaki7 said:


> Let UKIP take over. The more stupid and feeble the British government, the better.


No thanks some of us plan to be here for a couple more years before they go travelling. Curious to see what happens with the power as I do a lot of currency exchanges with dollars. The fact it is falling and could keep falling is worrying for me short term


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Top Shelf said:


> http://www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/leo-mckinstry/561997/Asian-gangs-were-allowed-to-prey-on-vulnerable-girls
> 
> Amongst other place


Make no mistake, the resurgence in British nationalism has been caused in part thanks to the revelation of these depravities. People look at these horrors and say that isn't my country and I don't want that to be my country. 

Then in reply they get called racist. 

Then they vote to give the people who called them racist the finger :mark:

The inability of the multiculti crowd to do anything but sniff their own farts and take courageous moral stands against severely exaggerated white racism, in the face of nearly unthinkable atrocities caused by the injection into Britain of those believing in a foreign culture with practices and beliefs completely incompatible with British culture, has finally shocked the silent majority into ever greater action. There is no room for gang-raping young girls because they are white or because they are whatever skin color in Britain, many of them being passed around to dozens of men to be raped, physically torturing and terrorizing them. There is no room in Britain for the police ignoring victims or verbally abusing them or charging _them_ with crimes. There is no room in Britain for sweeping thousands of rapes under the rug because you don't want to be called a racist. Enough.


----------



## IronMaiden7 (Mar 9, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



IronMaiden7 said:


> UK pension funds are already underwater. Damn.


From what I understand, people over 65 have most of their pensions guaranteed, which essentially means that the youngsters will be paying them.


----------



## Funaki7 (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Roy Mustang said:


> No thanks some of us plan to be here for a couple more years before they go travelling. Curious to see what happens with the power as I do a lot of currency exchanges with dollars. The fact it is falling and could keep falling is worrying for me short term


My dad doesn't own a steel company and I don't have butlers so I don't reckon I'd ever go "travelling", but after years of having England dictate their shit to Scotland it'd be pretty good to see Scotland turn independent and then the main English bulk, who felt Scotland shouldn't even get vote and that Scotland has no chance of flourishing if they turn independent, crumble under an abysmal government.

A united Ireland, an independent Scotland and an England struggling to keep the pieces together...that's always been the dream


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Tbf funaki seeming some of the comments on my facebook about how scots should not have a voter I can't blame you for that opinion 



deepelemblues said:


> Make no mistake, the resurgence in British nationalism has been caused in part thanks to the revelation of these depravities. People look at these horrors and say that isn't my country and I don't want that to be my country.
> 
> Then in reply they get called racist.
> 
> ...


Maybe part of it has but the fact that people think immigration is a bigger problem then it is makes me chuckle and worry for the country. Yes shit like the article is fucked up and should never happen.

And yeah there is people who are too quick to label people racist which will allow radical parties to get their views spread taking advantage of hate within people. 

The fact the remain campaign refused to use anything but fear as well as the leave campaign sums it up tbh.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Funaki7 said:


> My dad doesn't own a steel company and I don't have butlers so I don't reckon I'd ever go "travelling", but after years of having England dictate their shit to Scotland it'd be pretty good to see Scotland turn independent and then the main English bulk, who felt Scotland shouldn't even get vote and that Scotland has no chance of flourishing if they turn independent, crumble under an abysmal government.
> 
> A united Ireland, an independent Scotland and an England struggling to keep the pieces together...that's always been the dream


Scotland won't flourish if it's independent tho.

All it has are undeveloped offshore oil and gas fields, Scotland has nothing else economically to offer.

As a man with more than 50% Scottish heritage (most of the rest is Irish, and I don't mean I'm Scotch-Irish, I mean Scottish and Irish) I'd love to see Scotland independent and strong but it's a fantasy and your triumphalism is dangerous. England isn't going to go to pieces, Ireland sure as fuck isn't uniting, and Scotland's chances at independence this generation are sadly low as fuck. And why wouldn't England fuck an independent Scotland over as hard as it can if the Scottish "dream" is to see England struggling... we Scots have never been too good at keeping our mouths firmly shut where the English are involved when it would be advantageous for Scotland to do so.



Roy Mustang said:


> Maybe part of it has but the fact that people think immigration is a bigger problem then it is makes me chuckle and worry for the country. Yes shit like the article is fucked up and should never happen.


When things like Rotherham happen and the political impositions caused by immigration (the PC standards placed on people's remarks and behavior) are heavily involved, immigration is a very big problem. It didn't have to be, but it is. They could have done things differently, but they didn't. Most of the Rotherham rapists were second- or third-generation Pakistanis. The sons and grandsons of immigrants to Britain. And as long as the same stupid PC attitudes and beliefs hold sway - which they certainly do among the pro-immigration crowd - then following their lead only guarantees more Rotherhams in the future. More immigration of people with the same racist and misogynistic beliefs as the Rotherham rapists. They didn't pick up their beliefs from native British. They got them from their parents and other first-generation immigrants who got them from their homelands. The pro-immigration crowd doesn't care about what beliefs immigrants may hold and so further depravities are inevitable if they are in charge, as they are just fine with more people from these deeply racist and misogynistic societies immigrating to Britain. So if some of the new immigrants don't do Rotherhams themselves, it's again inevitable that some of their sons and grandsons will.


----------



## Funaki7 (Jan 15, 2011)

deepelemblues said:


> Scotland won't flourish if it's independent tho.
> 
> All it has are undeveloped offshore oil and gas fields, Scotland has nothing else economically to offer.
> 
> As a man with more than 50% Scottish heritage (most of the rest is Irish, and I don't mean I'm Scotch-Irish, I mean Scottish and Irish) I'd love to see Scotland independent and strong but it's a fantasy and your triumphalism is dangerous. England isn't going to go to pieces, Ireland sure as fuck isn't uniting, and Scotland's chances at independence this generation are sadly low as fuck. And why wouldn't England fuck an independent Scotland over as hard as it can if the Scottish "dream" is to see England struggling... we Scots have never been too good at keeping our mouths firmly shut where the English are involved when it would be advantageous for Scotland to do so.


Ireland didn't even have enough food for it's people to survive on once. They are still glad to be independent and that they fought for it though.

What's dangerous? Capitalism? People are defiining all of this bullshit but how much money is in their pocket at the end of the day. There's more important things than wearing the newest trainers in the world.

England doesn't have the ability to halt a Scottish referendum, as they didn't in the first place.



Roy Mustang said:


> Tbf funaki seeming some of the comments on my facebook about how scots should not have a voter I can't blame you for that opinion


That was all that fucked me over.

Over 200 English celebrities sending in a petition to prevent Scotland from being allowed to vote on it's own independence. Ridiculous.

I obviously don't hold any resentment for English people. They are just people. But if we're talking collective nations, one collective nation typically wanted to deny another collective nation it's independence, with the first nation occupying the first nation and committing atrocities on it hundreds of years ago.

Although the latter doesn't get you any sympathy. You have to have a slightly different complexion to complain about shit that happened to your ancestors.


----------



## IronMaiden7 (Mar 9, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Looks like Cameron is staying on, according to reports.


----------



## 4everEyebrowRaisin (Feb 25, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



IronMaiden7 said:


> Looks like Cameron is staying on, according to reports.


What a tosser. Both sides should rebel against the bastard.


----------



## xvampmanx (Apr 2, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

And the UK has voted to LEAVE the EU. Who saw that coming, I was on both sides and ultimately had remain being the winner.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Now the fun begins


----------



## Silent Alarm (May 26, 2010)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

The Republic of Ireland is now the leading English-speaking country in the EU. Our time to shine, baby.

Also, people talking about a United Ireland? Eh, no thanks. UK can keep the North. No-one down here wants it.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Extremely exciting and tremendous times indeed, @Top Shelf. Congratulations to British patriots!

Freedom is but one attribute amidst a larger roster of intangibles, residing with dignity, honor, love, respect and sovereignty. Displace one communal quality of the commonwealth, and what results is the rendering of the remaining substances of the metaphysical to become merely inchoate and abstract.


----------



## Rex Rasslin (Jan 6, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

It is a great day for Great Britain! Congratulations to the british people who have chosen freedom (Y) I hope there will be referendums across Europe so we can end this EU dictatorship for good. They are destroying our nations and cultures and we have to deal with this enemy!


----------



## The Ultimate Warrior (Oct 19, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Silent Alarm said:


> The Republic of Ireland is now the leading English-speaking country in the EU. Our time to shine, baby.
> 
> Also, people talking about a United Ireland? Eh, no thanks. UK can keep the North. No-one down here wants it.


We are not _The North_, we are Northern Ireland and fucking proud of it


----------



## IronMaiden7 (Mar 9, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

This might've been important information to have before the vote:

https://twitter.com/GMB/status/746218028195426305


----------



## Funaki7 (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Silent Alarm said:


> The Republic of Ireland is now the leading English-speaking country in the EU. Our time to shine, baby.
> 
> Also, people talking about a United Ireland? Eh, no thanks. UK can keep the North. No-one down here wants it.


Would be nice to not have to remember to wear a non Celtic shirt if I'm going to Donegal though.

You're really going to stab me because I'm wearing the wrong football jersey? You guys know I'm fucking from Glasgow right? How many of you have been to Iborx? None of you? And I'm getting stabbed in Northern Ireland because of a football team from my home city that none of you have even seen play live. Alright fuck it, get it over with...*Dies*


----------



## Gandhi (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

:mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## CGS (Feb 7, 2004)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Fucking Northen Farmers :mj2

Since Sunday I had this very strong feeling that while remain was the likely option we would indeed vote to Leave. Even watching the results on BBC last night I kept saying to the wife that it will hang on what the likes of Birmingham and London vote because the North/North east will vote to leave in huge numbers. Birmingham voting to leave (albeit ridiculously close) was a huge surprise as I was certain they would vote to stay considering they are one of the more multicultural cities in England. Just seems like once that happened London didn't have enough voting power in the end to save this Great nation :mj2

Very interesting to see how the economy deals with this and see where things go from here. I've seen some people say nothing will happen and we will be fine which I think is a very naive output to have but who knows.

Now just awaiting the day that we actually decide to vote that cunt Farage into office :mj2


----------



## KC Armstrong (Jun 19, 2013)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

I am fucking shocked... there's really nothing else I can say right now.


----------



## Doc (Oct 4, 2010)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Finally. We have spoken and risen up and decided enough is enough. 

It's quite telling from the counts that the majority of towns and cities that wanted to stay in the corrupt E.U. are well off areas with a high headcount of rich folk. 

Well you will ignore us no longer, the common man has spoken, my money will now be spent even more on people in my country. No more of GREAT Britain being France and Germany's bitch. We saved one of you and beat the other.

The world is changing, the common people have had enough. (Trump's popularity in America speaks volumes for example.)


Oh and slagging off northern farmers? Who puts milk in your fridge for basically no profit? Puts food on your table just so they can break even themselves? Farmers have been bent over by the EU since its original conception because we have the best and hardest working farmers in the world in Britain. 

Holland, Spain, Finland, Italy and Portugal will be the next to vote to leave. Trust.


Just awaiting to be called a racist now which isn't the case at all. Look at Birmingham voting OUT for example . It isnt an immigration issue. It's a power issue. And the people now have the power.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Cameron has stepped down. Yay!


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

Well some good has come of this with the pig fucker gone. But of this means boris then fuck this got so much worse


----------



## CGS (Feb 7, 2004)

CGS said:


> Now just awaiting the day that we actually decide to vote that cunt Farage into office :mj2


Cameron steps down....soon 

:mj2 :mj2 :mj2 :mj2 :mj2 :mj2 :mj2 :mj2 :mj2 :mj2 :mj2 :mj2 :mj2 :mj2 :mj2 :mj2 :mj2 :mj2 :mj2 :mj2


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

:lmao Seriously?


----------



## Green Light (Sep 17, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Susanna Reid would get bummed :bbrown3


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Now Scotland should vote to leave UK and join EU.


----------



## Genking48 (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/746240420540092417


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Punkhead said:


> Now Scotland should vote to leave UK and join EU.


Does Scotland have enough money on its own? Also what has Scotland got to offer the EU? I dog actually know so wondering


----------



## Doc (Oct 4, 2010)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



CGS said:


> Fucking Northen Farmers :mj2
> 
> Since Sunday I had this very strong feeling that while remain was the likely option we would indeed vote to Leave. Even watching the results on BBC last night I kept saying to the wife that it will hang on what the likes of Birmingham and London vote because the North/North east will vote to leave in huge numbers. Birmingham voting to leave (albeit ridiculously close) was a huge surprise as I was certain they would vote to stay considering they are one of the more multicultural cities in England. Just seems like once that happened London didn't have enough voting power in the end to save this Great nation :mj2
> 
> ...


Those 'fucking northern farmers' who put food on your table and milk in your tea for no profit for themselves?

Farmers in this country have been bent over since the EU was originally started. 

If your so annoyed about the north go.and get your milk and goods from the European mainland. In fact disappear and go live there.


----------



## Gandhi (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

David Cameron fucking off is the most beautiful thing about all of this.


----------



## CGS (Feb 7, 2004)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Doc said:


> Those 'fucking northern farmers' who put food on your table and milk in your tea for no profit for themselves?
> 
> Farmers in this country have been bent over since the EU was originally started.
> 
> If your so annoyed about the north go.and get your milk and goods from the European mainland. In fact disappear and go live there.


FYI The Northern farmers thing was a joke (Sorta :side 

Not gonna pretend that i'm happy with this decision since i was very strongly in the remain camp and felt that on a large economic scale it was the best move for this country but it is what it is, I just hope we don't get too fucked over economically for the decision.


----------



## FriedTofu (Sep 29, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Everyone's going to get fucked over economically, not only the people in Britain. Prepare for more pain if America elects Trump in November.

The only hope left is economies take the opportunity to restructure to benefit the people more than the current system.


----------



## Alco (May 18, 2006)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Interesting times are upon us, that's for sure. How much of a "United Kingdom" is it really, when your regions vote entirely opposite of one another?

It's also very intriguing to see how populism gains so many votes AFTER an economic crisis, as opposed to during the crisis itself. It's visible in the Netherlands, in France and most certainly in the UK as well. If this triggers a chain reaction in the entire Union, then I heavily fear the consequences. 

I have no doubt this will damage the UK and the EU in the short run and it remains to be seen how big the damage will be in the long run.


----------



## paladin errant (Apr 23, 2016)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Alco said:


> It's also very intriguing to see how populism gains so many votes AFTER an economic crisis, as opposed to during the crisis itself. It's visible in the Netherlands, in France and most certainly in the UK as well. If this triggers a chain reaction in the entire Union, then I heavily fear the consequences.


sorry but we had a referendum in france with the same question (before the crisis),people wanted to leave UE,but our political leaders have not given the outcome..there is a huge crisis inside the UE,people have enough of corruption and unfair decisions of the UE.

Uk leaves the UE it's an open door for other countries to do the same.and i'm for it!


----------



## kusksu (Mar 12, 2010)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Sigh. A vote for freedom, sure. If you're English obviously, Irish and Scottish can fuck right off with what they want.

The next few years are going to be interesting. Especially seeing GB negotiated with the EU to try and get back the same agreement they had before the recent re-negotiation. 

UPDATE: Eu trying to throw out all British representatives out immediately. I guess that 2 year period the leave party was selling was merely another fantasy.


----------



## KC Armstrong (Jun 19, 2013)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

I certainly have my issues with the establishment, but this new wave of nationalism really concerns me...


----------



## kendoo (Oct 23, 2012)

I think the eu has been fucked for years and it's just a matter of time before other countries leave aswell.


----------



## CaptainTurbo (Jun 17, 2016)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Woke up to find Brexit won, not the best way to start my day....David Cameron resigning!!!...I guess every cloud has a silver lining.


----------



## CJ (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Kinda surprised we actually won :mark:


----------



## inzenity (Sep 1, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Best political news in more than 10 years, thanks sensible brits.

Next, #nexit , #trump2016 and freaking borders!

:reigns2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

My thoughts: :cal


----------



## Dibil13 (Apr 29, 2016)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

People like me were going to lose no matter what the result. A remain vote would mean I'm still stuck in the EU. A leave vote means Northern Ireland is going to split from Britain, rejoin the Republic and I'm right back in the EU. I'll have to move across the water to get away from it. Needless to say I'm not happy.


----------



## Braylyt (Jan 19, 2015)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

I'm still buzzing tbh

Its not everyday that the future of democracy is in the balance, or y'know.. that rational thought prevails.

This means #NEXIT and #ITAXIT are next up. Germany can go back and play the little fascist on his own again.


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Our unionist Norn Iron brethren are more than welcome to move to Blighty should the republic engage in a HOSTILE takeover. 

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

So in 2016 incompetent populist idiots are triumphant. That's good news for Donald Trump.

Either way, most of those who voted to leave were old farts who hate the young generation, which is the future, so actually they hate the future because they'll all be dead in 20 years or so. Most of those who voted to stay are young people who acre about the future and the world they're gonna be living in. Sad to see a bunch of old farts killing the future that young people want to have.

Oh, and who's gonna work in the UK now? A bunch of lazy chavs who sit at home and get allowance for doing nothing? Something tells me they won't want to get off their asses and actually work the jobs immigrants used to work. Who's gonna work for you now? :lmao


----------



## Wealdstone Raider (Jan 3, 2013)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

All this does is prove Rupert Murdoch runs the UK as the working class will believe anything the Sun prints.


----------



## Genking48 (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

What will Northern Ireland, Scotland (and mayhaps) London do post Brexit?


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*


----------



## Doc (Oct 4, 2010)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Punkhead said:


> So in 2016 incompetent populist idiots are triumphant. That's good news for Donald Trump.
> 
> Either way, most of those who voted to leave were old farts who hate the young generation, which is the future, so actually they hate the future because they'll all be dead in 20 years or so. Most of those who voted to stay are young people who acre about the future and the world they're gonna be living in. Sad to see a bunch of old farts killing the future that young people want to have.
> 
> Oh, and who's gonna work in the UK now? A bunch of lazy chavs who sit at home and get allowance for doing nothing? Something tells me they won't want to get off their asses and actually work the jobs immigrants used to work. Who's gonna work for you now? :lmao


Wrong. 

Everyone I know including myself are in their early 30's voted to leave.
We've lived he past 10 years week to week waiting for an opportunity to change the country we live in and now we have it. 

Are you seriously telling me you are happy with the current climate in this country? I'm expecting my first child any day now and I'm proud and happy that I've made a difference to their life where they will have the power to run their own country and not rely on some no mark suit from Germany telling them what to do.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Punkhead said:


> Either way, most of those who voted to leave were old farts who hate the young generation, which is the future, so actually they hate the future because they'll all be dead in 20 years or so. Most of those who voted to stay are young people who acre about the future and the world they're gonna be living in. Sad to see a bunch of old farts killing the future that young people want to have.


you mean to say that most who voted leave were mature adults who've experienced life and have developed a realistic understanding of the world in which they live, while most that voted stay were immature youth idealists, who don't have a practical bone in their body?


----------



## CGS (Feb 7, 2004)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Nicola Sturgeon annoucing that Scotland are preparing for a 2nd ref. Leave the UK to join the eu pending.


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

oh god, animosity between the english and the scots is going to surge again :mj2


----------



## inzenity (Sep 1, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Punkhead said:


> So in 2016 incompetent populist idiots are triumphant. That's good news for Donald Trump.
> 
> Either way, most of those who voted to leave were old farts who hate the young generation, which is the future, so actually they hate the future because they'll all be dead in 20 years or so. Most of those who voted to stay are young people who acre about the future and the world they're gonna be living in. Sad to see a bunch of old farts killing the future that young people want to have.
> 
> Oh, and who's gonna work in the UK now? A bunch of lazy chavs who sit at home and get allowance for doing nothing? Something tells me they won't want to get off their asses and actually work the jobs immigrants used to work. Who's gonna work for you now? :lmao


Numbers are just opinions, aye?:Out

What a glorious day


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Punkhead said:


> So in 2016 incompetent populist idiots are triumphant. That's good news for Donald Trump.
> 
> Either way, most of those who voted to leave were old farts who hate the young generation, which is the future, so actually they hate the future because they'll all be dead in 20 years or so. Most of those who voted to stay are young people who acre about the future and the world they're gonna be living in. Sad to see a bunch of old farts killing the future that young people want to have.
> 
> Oh, and who's gonna work in the UK now? A bunch of lazy chavs who sit at home and get allowance for doing nothing? Something tells me they won't want to get off their asses and actually work the jobs immigrants used to work. Who's gonna work for you now? :lmao


Whoa. 

Psychoanalysis is strong. :dance 

I happen to have a friend in Britain's fishing industry who's only a few years older than I am and he's been adamant about leaving the EU because the EU's regulations have utterly strangled the British fishing industry, nearly to death. Myriad economic regulations have hampered people and their livelihoods, and many of them are in their thirties and even twenties, according to both him and the picture that has been disseminated through many forms of media. Many fishing communities along the coasts have been uprooted by EU policies. The Icelanders have been saying roughly the same thing about how the EU is harming their fishing industry.

Looks like a "Frexit" may be incoming: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...nce-calls-emergency-meeting-Francois-Hollande :dance :dance :dance



> France calls EMERGENCY meeting following historic Brexit vote amid calls for FREXIT
> 
> FRENCH president Francois Hollande has called an emergency meeting following Britain's decision to leave the European Union as calls for a Frexit heightened.
> 
> ...


----------



## FriedTofu (Sep 29, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Punkhead said:


> So in 2016 incompetent populist idiots are triumphant. That's good news for Donald Trump.
> 
> Either way, most of those who voted to leave were old farts who hate the young generation, which is the future, so actually they hate the future because they'll all be dead in 20 years or so. Most of those who voted to stay are young people who acre about the future and the world they're gonna be living in. Sad to see a bunch of old farts killing the future that young people want to have.
> 
> Oh, and who's gonna work in the UK now? A bunch of lazy chavs who sit at home and get allowance for doing nothing? Something tells me they won't want to get off their asses and actually work the jobs immigrants used to work. Who's gonna work for you now? :lmao


It isn't just 2016. It has been a worldwide phenomenon against the establishment elites in recent years. I think it is dangerous to think populists are idiots. Many of them are the very elites manipulating the anger of the people against their fellow elites for personal gains. And their fellow elites are wary of these people but can't provide an appealing counterpoint to populist rhetoric of less taxes or xenophobia.


----------



## CGS (Feb 7, 2004)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

The voting pattern this time around was less about age, even though lets be real Age played a real part in it. I mean i'm 24 and the EU is all i've known and from a economical standpoint I can't help but feel remaining made more sense whereas many of the people around me that I heard were planning to vote out just happened to be in their 50's & 60's and experienced both in and out. Still age wasn't the #1 factor here (Probably the #2 though)

The bigger factor was indeed a regional one. London and the south east obviously benefits more from remaining in the EU due to the services sector making it much easier to trade between the European cities while further up North they do get more fucked from it, such is life. I still believe this will have a shitter impact on our economy as a whole but here's hoping we go in the right direction from it. Scotland just wanted in so that they can make it easy for themselves when they eventually decide to fuck off from the UK. 

Whatever the case the economy is gonna go to shit for a little while, probably up until the next general election. For the long term though who knows.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Sorry, Globalists! Nationalism is back!


----------



## kusksu (Mar 12, 2010)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Goku said:


> you mean to say that most who voted leave were mature adults who've experienced life and have developed a realistic understanding of the world in which they live, while most that voted stay were immature youth idealists, who don't have a practical bone in their body?


Bullshit. 

Sure, Old could mean mature. Or experienced. It could also mean bitter, stuck in the past and no sense of actual responsibility since they know it won't affect them too badly. 

And the leave party isn't idealistic? Their whole campaign was made up of catchphrases like _freedom_ and _independence_, things that mean nothing since the UK must still negotiate with the EU for trade deals. The only difference now is that the EU has the leverage and the bigger countries will be looking to make an example of the UK. Freedom, independence? The UK have gained no such thing.

The leave party actually described their voters as those capable of ignoring actual expert advice and just doing what the fuck they want. Realistic, mature? No this is a group of people that desperately want to return to the good old days of the *British Empire* when they were the ones raping the cultures of a vast amount of countries world-wide (with much less say from those countries).

And don't forget, the majority of the 25-49 age group voted to remain in. It's the 50+ crowd that voted to leave.

But whatever, wisdom only comes from the old aye? Surely, they couldn't possibly not know best.


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

@DesolationRow @CJ; @CamillePunk

Today Britain voted for liberty over supposed security. Today we voted for sovereignty rather than a bureaucratic, unelected anti-democratic political body known as the European Union. Most importantly we voted to take control of our destinies and for us to govern ourselves and make our own political decisions. This is an incredible victory for our country and for liberty as a whole. Tough times are ahead though, the speculation on the markets and the uncertainty has without a doubt taken hold seeing the GBP fall to record lows. There is going to be a short term rocky road ahead of us but once things stabilize not only am I confident we will survive but that we will thrive. We are the 5th largest economy in the world and a lot more political clout than many want to believe.

This type of short term economic downturn is essentially what would happen if Greece left the Euro or if America actually confronted it's debt and deficit problem. In the long run for those countries it would be needed for economic restructuring and recovery. For us in Britain it's about a transferring period of uncertainty. If there is anything to be learned from this it's simply not to give up on liberty for a false sense of security. For those of you who are in camp remain and are worried about the implications; things will get better. Remember the same people who talk of our impending doom said we should join the Euro or we would fall behind the rest of Europe. Remember that countries like Norway and Switzerland are doing rather well outside the EU and that Switzerland in fact are thriving.

In the negotiation period there will have to be some sort of negotiation to represent not only those who voted Leave but the 48% who voted Remain. There will also have to be a deal fair to other EU member states, there are conflicting reports on how the EU is handling this and whilst many believe the EU commission will simply force us out without a deal there has also been talks of learning lessons for the EU and that the union may in fact have to be a lot looser and concessions will have to be made to keep it together. This includes making a deal for Britain that benefits everyone. Another example is that Poland may be given the option to keep it's currency rather than join the Euro. It might not be talk of the end of the political project but it certainly is a positive step. 

Change won't come over night but it certainly is coming. Whatever the case may be the status quo and the political life of the UK has been drastically rocked and changed. And for anyone who knows the ills and horrors of our current climate that can only be a great thing in the long run.

HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY!


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Goku said:


> you mean to say that most who voted leave were mature adults who've experienced life and have developed a realistic understanding of the world in which they live, while most that voted stay were immature youth idealists, who don't have a practical bone in their body?


"After me, the deluge". Those old people are selfish assholes only thinking about themselves and they do not care about long-term consequences of their decisions or the young generation, which is the future because in 20 years or so they'll be dead anyway.


----------



## Seb (Jun 13, 2007)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



CGS said:


> The bigger factor was indeed a regional one. London and the south east obviously benefits more from remaining in the EU due to the services sector making it much easier to trade between the European cities while further up North they do get more fucked from it, such is life. I still believe this will have a shitter impact on our economy as a whole but here's hoping we go in the right direction from it. Scotland just wanted in so that they can make it easy for themselves when they eventually decide to fuck off from the UK.


I'm in the South East and nearly every area around here decisively voted to leave. I leaned towards leave but didn't vote because I wasn't decisive one way or the other, but i'm reasonably optimistic about the result. I think it's the right long term decision.

This isn't aimed at you - but it's predictable and amusing that terms like "xenophobic", "uneducated voters" "the older generation fucked us" are thrown around in situations like this by the fear-mongering liberals because they didn't get the result they wanted.

Scotland can have their 2nd referendum, it's warranted due to them emphatically voting to stay, wouldn't be too bothered to see the back of them either given how much we subsidise them. The ramifications for them leaving UK will be worse than those of today's result.

The EU we have just left won't be the same after this - expecting to see France, Holland and maybe others to have referendums of their own.



Punkhead said:


> "After me, the deluge". Those old people are selfish assholes only thinking about themselves and they do not care about long-term consequences of their decisions or the young generation, which is the future because in 20 years or so they'll be dead anyway.


This is an example of the above, labelling old people selfish and implying their votes shouldn't matter because they'll be dead soon anyway. 

Sorry, but DEMOCRACY reigns victorious :banderas


----------



## Genking48 (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



L-DOPA said:


> @DesolationRow @CJ; @CamillePunk
> 
> Today Britain voted for liberty over supposed security. Today we voted for sovereignty rather than a bureaucratic, unelected anti-democratic political body known as the European Union. Most importantly we voted to take control of our destinies and for us to govern ourselves and make our own political decisions. This is an incredible victory for our country and for liberty as a whole. Tough times are ahead though, the speculation on the markets and the uncertainty has without a doubt taken hold seeing the GBP fall to record lows. There is going to be a short term rocky road ahead of us but once things stabilize not only am I confident we will survive but that we will thrive. *We are the 5th largest economy in the world* and a lot more political clout than many want to believe.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry mate

http://www.express.co.uk/finance/ci...UK-worlds-fifth-largest-economy-pound-plunges


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



kusksu said:


> Bullshit.
> 
> Sure, Old could mean mature. Or experienced. It could also mean bitter, stuck in the past and no sense of actual responsibility since they know it won't affect them too badly.
> 
> ...


meh



Punkhead said:


> "After me, the deluge". Those old people are selfish assholes only thinking about themselves and they do not care about long-term consequences of their decisions or the young generation, which is the future because in 20 years or so they'll be dead anyway.


how do you know this?


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Congratulations, @L-DOPA! An inspiring post and an inspiring movement. As you and I, as well as others, have discussed in the past, some growing pains and strenuous period of adjustment will be in order, during which considerable tumult will doubtless rule the short-term, but this is necessary and I look forward to several other countries regaining their sovereignty against the bureaucrats of Brussels. :clap





 :lol


----------



## Seb (Jun 13, 2007)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



DesolationRow said:


> Congratulations, @L-DOPA! An inspiring post and an inspiring movement. As you and I, as well as others, have discussed in the past, some growing pains and strenuous period of adjustment will be in order, during which considerable tumult will doubtless rule the short-term, but this is necessary and I look forward to several other countries regaining their sovereignty against the bureaucrats of Brussels. :clap


People acting like Britain is permanently doomed because we left a political union :banderas

Farage going to have a bigger political legacy than Cameron :banderas


----------



## CGS (Feb 7, 2004)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Seb said:


> I'm in the South East and nearly every area around here decisively voted to leave. I leaned towards leave but didn't vote because I wasn't decisive one way or the other, but i'm reasonably optimistic about the result. I think it's the right long term decision.


What part of the South East are you from if you don't mind me asking Seb? Just interested more than anything 

But yeah agree about the whole "old age" and "uneducated voter" stuff that some people are spewing. Genuinely feel it's a regional thing more than anything.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Seb said:


> People acting like Britain is permanently doomed because we left a political union :banderas
> 
> Farage going to have a bigger political legacy than Cameron :banderas


:lol It's honestly rather amusing, to some extent, the "Chicken Little" rhetoric of at least a healthy segment of the "Remain" constituency. 

Farage casting a greater shadow over British politics than Cameron is pretty glorious for a litany of reasons.

I can understand why Scotland voted the way it did. Should have voted for independence a couple of years ago. Will be interesting to see how the drama of Scotland seeking another referendum for independence plays out over the next few weeks and months.


----------



## Seb (Jun 13, 2007)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



CGS said:


> What part of the South East are you from if you don't mind me asking Seb? Just interested more than anything
> 
> But yeah agree about the whole "old age" and "uneducated voter" stuff that some people are spewing. Genuinely feel it's a regional thing more than anything.


Brentwood (59.2% Leave) - Thurrock, Epping, Chelmsford, Basildon, Colchester, Braintree, Maldon, Rochford, Southend, Harlow, Dartford, Sevenoaks are all the areas within about an hour of me and they all voted Leave also.


----------



## KC Armstrong (Jun 19, 2013)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*






Who cares about silly little details?


----------



## Rop3 (Feb 1, 2010)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

I refuse to talk politics but aside from that, it is crazy how small the margin of the vote was. No matter which was the result, about half of the population will be unhappy and have to suffer the consequences of what the other half wanted to do.


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Genking48 said:


> I'm sorry mate
> 
> http://www.express.co.uk/finance/ci...UK-worlds-fifth-largest-economy-pound-plunges


I'm sorry but did you not even read my post? I said there would be short term economic consequences and that in the short term the road will be rocky. We are seeing that unfold. The true test will be where we are at within the next 5-10 years, not what market speculation causes in 24 hours.




DesolationRow said:


> Congratulations, @L-DOPA! An inspiring post and an inspiring movement. As you and I, as well as others, have discussed in the past, some growing pains and strenuous period of adjustment will be in order, during which considerable tumult will doubtless rule the short-term, but this is necessary and I look forward to several other countries regaining their sovereignty against the bureaucrats of Brussels. :clap
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It is an historic day for sure. It's going to be painful short term but the long term implications and the return of sovereignty are totally worth the rocky road we are about to embark on.

#BREXIT #Liberty #IndependenceDay 




Seb said:


> People acting like Britain is permanently doomed because we left a political union :banderas
> 
> Farage going to have a bigger political legacy than Cameron :banderas


Talking to people on here and especially on Facebook you would think that the end of the world is coming. So much impending doom talks which is typically filled with calling people names simply because they didn't get the result they want. They call people idiots yet they fall for the reactions of the market less than 24 hours after we leave and signal that we are fucked forever.

It's like long term thinking and waiting doesn't come into their thinking.


----------



## Seb (Jun 13, 2007)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



DesolationRow said:


> :lol It's honestly rather amusing, to some extent, the "Chicken Little" rhetoric of at least a healthy segment of the "Remain" constituency.
> 
> Farage casting a greater shadow over British politics than Cameron is pretty glorious for a litany of reasons.
> 
> I can understand why Scotland voted the way it did. Should have voted for independence a couple of years ago. Will be interesting to see how the drama of Scotland seeking another referendum for independence plays out over the next few weeks and months.


Also people moaning about Farage and that GMB video going around about how much more money would be given to the NHS - people really believed that he has a say in our budget and how money is allocated to the NHS? He's not even an MP :bosque



L-DOPA said:


> Talking to people on here and especially on Facebook you would think that the end of the world is coming. So much impending doom talks which is typically filled with calling people names simply because they didn't get the result they want. They call people idiots yet they fall for the reactions of the market less than 24 hours after we leave and signal that we are fucked forever.
> 
> It's like long term thinking and waiting doesn't come into their thinking.












People calling for a second referendum as well because of "low turnout" :banderas


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Nationalism coming back the way it is especially in a place like europe is something that people shouldn't celebrate because even though there's some positivity to be derived from nationalism, there is always a high risk for violent extremism. Islam and the muslim world is fiercely nationalistic to this day and most of those nation states are now in shambles and failing as I've experienced in my own lifetime. The fact that europeans are now celebrating their return to nationalism is pretty ironic in that sense. If it's the baby boomers that are voting nationalism, then what the fuck are they doing? 

Exiting or remaining isn't all good or all bad and at this point I think people celebrating either as such have to be missing key pieces of information. Absolutely speaking, there's nothing in this world that's all good or all bad :shrug

I feel like rationalism is losing its way and anti-intellectualism is making a return. It's just a mess and needs a couple of decades before the mist settles on the outcome of this decision as well as the rise of other nationalistic ideologies in Europe. People are forgetting that at its core nationalism didn't work either the last time the world adopted that model (and hasn't for countries that are currently nationalistic). 

The lessons from history seem to have been forgotten - as usual.


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Seb said:


> This is an example of the above, labelling old people selfish and implying their votes shouldn't matter because they'll be dead soon anyway.
> 
> Sorry, but DEMOCRACY reigns victorious :banderas


I'm not implying that their votes shouldn't matter, all votes should matter, that's the idea of democracy. I'm saying that they voted only thinking about themselves and what they want. They're selfish old people who hate the young people and the future and they just proved that with their votes.


----------



## CGS (Feb 7, 2004)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

The thought of Farage becoming a legend in politics is just so..... :mj2



Seb said:


> Also people moaning about Farage and that GMB video going around about how much more money would be given to the NHS - people really believed that he has a say in our budget and how money is allocated to the NHS? He's not even an MP :bosque


This makes me lol so hard. I'm amazed at the fact that people actually voted for leave based on him saying this (Like what) and amazed that people are getting pissed for him lying (he's a fucking politician ffs). He's not the PM, He not even a MP how on earth could he have promised this? :lmao


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Seb said:


> Also people moaning about Farage and that GMB video going around about how much more money would be given to the NHS - people really believed that he has a say in our budget and how money is allocated to the NHS? He's not even an MP :bosque


Ha, this is precisely what I was thinking as well. Seems to be making a mountain out of a molehill as the cliché goes.


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Rop3 said:


> I refuse to talk politics but aside from that, it is crazy how small the margin of the vote was. No matter which was the result, about half of the population will be unhappy and have to suffer the consequences of what the other half wanted to do.


That's democracy for you. Democracy doesn't always work because what the majority wants is not always what's right. Democracy was never about what's right anyway, it's always been about pleasing as many people as possible. I mean, majority can be wrong too.


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Punkhead said:


> That's democracy for you. Democracy doesn't always work because what the majority wants is not always what's right. Democracy was never about what's right anyway, it's always been about pleasing as many people as possible. I mean, majority can be wrong too.


Not only that. One of the weakest aspects of democracy is that someone with the intelligence of a door knob that has never lifted a single newspaper in his life has the exact _same _political sway as someone like Einstein for example. 

Referendumsare the most ridiculous method of determining what should happen. I think that the power to decide a country's future should lie squarely in the hands of chosen elites. Call me fascist or whatever, but when you have someone that shoots cocaine all night long having the same political power as someone who works day and night and reads a dozen books a month, then I get worried :shrug


----------



## Gandhi (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Nationalism is fucking retarded, nonetheless, people need practical solutions.

The EU can be a bitch about things, so I'm happy for the UK.


----------



## nucklehead88 (Dec 17, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

If anything, you guys should have voted to tell the royal family to fuck off. The strange worship around "royalty" needs to stop.


----------



## CGS (Feb 7, 2004)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

There are many pros & flaws in the voting system but ultimately it's the fairest way to do it.

End of the day even politicians have their own agendas to push this stuff (Boris was heavily in favor of leave because if it happened he would be heavily touted as the next PM). Leaving it in their hands is just as risky as leaving it in the hands of dave the builder.


----------



## J-B (Oct 26, 2015)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Watching the likes of Gary Lineker and co rant all day about the result on Twitter is glorious :keys


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Gandhi said:


> Nationalism is fucking retarded, nonetheless, people need practical solutions.
> 
> The EU can be a bitch about things, so I'm happy for the UK.


If you say that nationalism is retarded, then in the same sentence you can't call it a practical solution because Brexit is essentially nationalistic at its core.


----------



## Braylyt (Jan 19, 2015)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Reaper said:


> If you say that nationalism is retarded, then in the same sentence you can't call it a practical solution because Brexit is essentially nationalistic at its core.


nonetheless
adverb none·the·less \ˌnən-thə-ˈles\

Simple Definition of nonetheless
: in spite of what has just been said


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

http://www.thelocal.it/20160624/renzi-calls-extraordinary-meeting-after-brexit-vote



> Italy's Prime Minister, Matteo Renzi, summoned the country's top economic minds to his home on Friday morning.
> 
> Renzi calls urgent meeting as Italy's far-right rejoice Brexit
> 
> ...


----------



## Alco (May 18, 2006)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



DesolationRow said:


> Ha, this is precisely what I was thinking as well. Seems to be making a mountain out of a molehill as the cliché goes.


I don't agree at all with the cliché, Deso, for the simple fact that -if what I've read is correct- this slogan was used in official propaganda and advertising and that the people creating it were well aware that this would sway at least a part of the undecided voters a certain way. It shows an even more concerning problem in today's politics (all over Europe, including my own little Belgium I might add) that misguiding or outright false information always gains the upper hand because of a general increase in populist thinking, where slogans are far more important than actual facts or information. It scares me and it should scare other Europeans too.


----------



## Gandhi (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Reaper said:


> If you say that nationalism is retarded, then in the same sentence you can't call it a practical solution because Brexit is essentially nationalistic at its core.


There's no denying Brexit is of nationalistic colors, but I see the positives nonetheless that would benefit those who aren't nationalistic. Not everything about Brexit is nationalistic (hell even I know the Remain vote wasn't all completely bad) but I know the same case goes for the Leave vote, it's just that nationalists enjoy the benefits as do the non nationalists who just care about the practicality of Brexit.

The fact that Germany will now sod off the UK is refreshing.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Alco said:


> I don't agree at all with the cliché, Deso, for the simple fact that -if what I've read is correct- this slogan was used in official propaganda and advertising and that the people creating it were well aware that this would sway at least a part of the undecided voters a certain way. It shows an even more concerning problem in today's politics (all over Europe, including my own little Belgium I might add) that misguiding or outright false information always gains the upper hand because of a general increase in populist thinking, where slogans are far more important than actual facts or information. It scares me and it should scare other Europeans too.


I'm not sufficiently familiar with how this information was utilized by the respective sides to weigh in on it from here but politics is inherently corruptive and especially the democratic sort. While I'm happy that "Brexit" prevailed I'm sympathetic to the points raised by @Punkhead and @Reaper that democracy is a deeply, terribly flawed construct. 

For now, though, I must attempt to grab an hour and a half or so of sleep before the chance escapes, ha.


----------



## lagofala (Jun 22, 2016)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Not from the UK, but I'm curious what jobs do you guys have if you voted for Brexit. Will this affect your job?

This thing has caused turmoil where i am (South East Asia) because we do a lot of business with the UK and Europe. Hundreds of people were at money changers everywhere trying to dump their pounds and buy yen and USD.

Stock markets here have plummeted as well and the the British Expats at my workplace (an Anglo-American MNC) here are up in arms. Credit ratings agencies have threatened to downgrade the UK's status (yes credit rating is important as many things are priced with that in mind). Companies might move their headquarters to France, Frankfurt or Ireland.

I guess people are on a nationalistic high but when reality hits in form of higher prices for goods (inflation), a weaker pound, lack of low wage labour, higher borrowing costs, higher insurance premiums, less international stars in the English Premier League, perhaps less international wrestlers wrestling in the UK and less international clout, will the British people think it was worth it?


----------



## Alco (May 18, 2006)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



DesolationRow said:


> I'm not sufficiently familiar with how this information was utilized by the respective sides to weigh in on it from here but politics is inherently corruptive and especially the democratic sort. While I'm happy that "Brexit" prevailed I'm sympathetic to the points raised by @Punkhead and @Reaper that democracy is a deeply, terribly flawed construct.
> 
> For now, though, I must attempt to grab an hour and a half or so of sleep before the chance escapes, ha.


Enjoy my friend ;-)

I will say though that a referendum is the absolute worst application of democracy that exists. A yes/no question that only draws in the extreme votes. What can possibly go wrong?


----------



## Genking48 (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*






It's an amazing time, all of this is really fascinating to watch happen.


----------



## Gandhi (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*






hehe


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

As I said in the shoutbox, should Scotland want to be Independent then I support their right to secede. Same opinion as I had the first time around.


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Gandhi said:


> There's no denying Brexit is of nationalistic colors, but I see the positives nonetheless that would benefit those who aren't nationalistic. Not everything about Brexit is nationalistic (hell even I know the Remain vote wasn't all completely bad) but I know the same case goes for the Leave vote, it's just that nationalists enjoy the benefits as do the non nationalists who just care about the practicality of Brexit.
> 
> The fact that Germany will now sod off the UK is refreshing.


I didn't say there aren't positives to nationalism. Before the arab spring imploded, for a long time life was good to great for its citizens. The thing about nationalism is that it's a slow creeper. It doesn't rear its ugly head immediately. It's a series of cancerous ideologies that eat away at people's tolerance because once they realize that nationalism isn't giving them the benefits that it promised them on the outset they start looking for people to blame and since nationalism is inherently xenophobic (and brexit nationalism is not that much different) the blame starts falling on that _other _culture that's poisoning the well for others and it picks targets. It has happened in pretty much every nationalistic society and it's hard to keep it from happening. 



DesolationRow said:


> While I'm happy that "Brexit" prevailed I'm sympathetic to the points raised by @Punkhead and @Reaper that democracy is a deeply, terribly flawed construct.


At the same time, it's hard to truly be objective when the majority votes as you would have and therefore the examination of "what happens next?" ends with the victory. Best example of this was when Obama won presidency. 

If I was british, I probably would have voted to exit as well, but not for the reasons why most people seem to have. I would've done it because EU in and of itself is also nationalistic and mostly culturally homogonous even though it claims to be the world's first globalized multi-cultural union (it really isn't) - and because the success of smaller nation states is more compelling in the wake of larger failures. 

I think there's a terminal size when it comes to the human capacity to govern.


----------



## nucklehead88 (Dec 17, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Blaming old people? Really? Maybe people should have voted more if they wanted to Remain, who's fault is that? Lots of people registered but supposedly the blacks, asians and youth were going to make it 80% Remain, guess not? So how can any "Youths" complain when lots of them stayed home? Maybe if they actually did stuff instead of bitch on the net and protest stupid shit they'd have the country their way. Democracy won and Democracy isn't perfect but the majority spoke, both sides had decent arguments but Leave won, deal with it.

Instead of crying and pointing fingers maybe people should discuss how to ensure another major vote like this never happens again, maybe it's time to start actually doing something positive. Unless the youth plan to go extreme Leftist like Europe did in the 1940's! I guess people want overlords over us? Heh, maybe only college educated should get to vote? Leave would have won by 70% that way.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Reaper said:


> If I was british, I probably would have voted to exit as well, but not for the reasons why most people seem to have. I would've done it because EU in and of itself is also nationalistic even though it claims to be the world's first globalized union - and because the success of smaller nation states is more compelling in the wake of larger failures.
> 
> I think there's a terminal size when it comes to the human capacity to govern.


Indeed, I was considering making this same point: that while the "Brexit" campaign has been labeled "nationalistic," one could easily make the case that the European Union is a form of almost aggressive, crony-capitalist super state-sized "nationalism" with its own flag, its own anthem, and of course its own myriad economic regulations, quotas, etcetera. 

A genuine sense of seeking self-determination, to use Woodrow Wilson's old, dangerous phrase near and after the end of the 1910s' "Great War," isn't so much nationalism as simply the expression of understandable patriotism. 

One could go down this road for a good while and have a lot of fun doing so were one not in need of sleep, ha. I would like to think that at least some pro-Leave voters were voting that way for the interests of what they perceive as their particular commonwealth. The modern nation-state has featured a host of troublesome qualities since its inception out of the Renaissance, but if certain nationalistic tendencies align with the mere wish of seeking self-autonomy, to some extent, at least, well, so be it, I suppose. 

Many titans of international banking and finance are extremely upset right now, that much is certain.


----------



## Gandhi (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Reaper said:


> I didn't say there aren't positives to nationalism. Before the arab spring imploded, for a long time life was good to great for its citizens. The thing about nationalism is that it's a slow creeper. It doesn't rear its ugly head immediately. It's a series of cancerous ideologies that eat away at people's tolerance because once they realize that nationalism isn't giving them the benefits that it promised them on the outset they start looking for people to blame and since nationalism is inherently xenophobic the blame starts falling on that _other _culture that's poisoning the well for others and it picks targets. It has happened in pretty much every nationalistic society and it's hard to keep it from happening.


I agree with most of what you're saying, I understand nationalism is a creature that needs to be tamed so that it doesn't go berserk. However that doesn't change that it is a tool even non nationalists use to make sure, I don't know, I don't hear Islamic azans 5 times a day whilst I live in England?

European culture isn't perfect and needs to be sorted out, but fuck me overall IT IS SUPERIOR and the welcoming nature of some Europeans should ONLY BE PRESENT around other cultural aspects that are harmless not bloody everyone. What the Germans are doing is NOT harmless, Europe is beautiful AND IS BETTER THAN THIS. Yes, I am 100% fine with xenophobic mindsets towards Islamic cultures and I'm sure you're aware why this is the case.

This major change is major good news for people who had a hope for Britain. People want change, and hey, they got it. Hopefully the right parties cease power before actual racists do, I'm not going to say I doubt that'll happen but I will say making sure the noble course of action happens never was meant to be _"easy"_.


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Gandhi said:


> I agree with most of what you're saying, I understand nationalism is a creature that needs to be tamed so that it doesn't go berserk. However that doesn't change that it is a tool even non nationalists use to make sure, I don't know, I don't hear Islamic azans 5 times a day whilst I live in England?
> 
> European culture isn't perfect and needs to be sorted out, but fuck me overall IT IS SUPERIOR and the welcoming nature of some Europeans should ONLY BE PRESENT around other cultural aspects that are harmless not bloody everyone. What the Germans are doing is NOT harmless, Europe is beautiful AND IS BETTER THAN THIS. Yes, I am 100% fine with xenophobic mindsets towards Islamic cultures and I'm sure you're aware why this is the case.
> 
> This major change is major good news for people who had a hope for Britain. People want change, and hey, they got it. Hopefully the right parties cease power before actual racists do, I'm not going to say I doubt that'll happen but I will say making sure the noble course of action happens never was meant to be _"easy"_.


I find it funny when people say it's wrong to be "Xenophobic" against stagnant, overly religious and failed cultures. That's like saying it's wrong to be "prejudice" against a child molester from watching your kids, a zoophile for watching your dog or a keeping an impulsive chronic masterbator from sleeping on your black sheets.

People need to realize not all cultures are equal or else there would be no failed nations, people need to realize some cultures are not fully compatible. People aren't even always compatible so why would two opposite ideologies run by imperfect people work?


----------



## Oda Nobunaga (Jun 12, 2006)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*

Oh wow. I did NOT expect "Leave" to win. Well, I hope this decision proves fruitful for the British people in the long run. I would've said that regardless if it had been "Leave" or "Remain". Whether the rest of Europe follows, I can't say. If they do, I hope it's the best decision for 'em. I'm not one way or the other.


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Gandhi said:


> I agree with most of what you're saying, I understand nationalism is a creature that needs to be tamed so that it doesn't go berserk. However that doesn't change that it is a tool even non nationalists use to make sure, I don't know, I don't hear Islamic azans 5 times a day whilst I live in England?


Nationalism and secularism are not at all related to one another - except when the nationalist ideology includes specific attitudes towards specific religions. Brexit has nothing to do with people not hearing the adhan in england .. That's secularism which can and does exist with or without nationalism. What's compelling you to even relate the two? 



> European culture isn't perfect and needs to be sorted out, but fuck me overall IT IS SUPERIOR and the welcoming nature of some Europeans should ONLY BE PRESENT around other cultural aspects that are harmless not bloody everyone. What the Germans are doing is NOT harmless, Europe is beautiful AND IS BETTER THAN THIS. Yes, I am 100% fine with xenophobic mindsets towards Islamic cultures and I'm sure you're aware why this is the case.


They need stronger and stricter immigration rules and laws, but again, this is something nationalists have only usurped as part of their agenda in order to make themselves seem like they're on the right side. Again, nationalism does not necessarily have anything to do with immigration laws. The problem here is that using this as part of their agenda, nationalists can and do always come into power but they bring a lot of problematic ideologies as well. Again, turning to nationalists does not necessitate having stricter immigration laws. Those two are only loosely related. 



> This major change is major good news for people who had a hope for Britain. People want change, and hey, they got it. Hopefully the right parties cease power before actual racists do, I'm not going to say I doubt that'll happen but I will say making sure the noble course of action happens never was meant to be _"easy"_.


Again ... change for the sake of change is the wrong way to go about this and nationalism is definitely not the best way. Again, EU is just as nationalistic and totalitarian which is why I'm not against brexit, but at the same time don't be fooled by nationalists and their charm. Nationalism is not sustainable because at its core there's a lot of regressive ideas that hold the progress back.


----------



## CretinHop138 (Sep 9, 2015)

Boris saying there is no rush to leave the EU.

Farage won't like that. Means years of negociations.


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

CretinHop138 said:


> Boris saying there is no rush to leave the EU.
> 
> Farage won't like that. Means years of negociations.


Well Boris for once is right. Uk need to get the best deal possible which will take time.


----------



## Gandhi (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Reaper said:


> Nationalism and secularism are not at all related to one another - except when the nationalist ideology includes specific attitudes towards specific religions. Brexit has nothing to do with people not hearing the adhan in england .. That's secularism which can and does exist with or without nationalism. What's compelling you to even relate the two?


Brexit is about British people controlling Britain. I trust in nationalist Brits more than Leftist Germans.

Guess which group will make sure azans fuck off more?



Reaper said:


> They need stronger and stricter immigration rules and laws, but again, this is something nationalists have only usurped as part of their agenda in order to make themselves seem like they're on the right side. Again, nationalism does not necessarily have anything to do with immigration laws. The problem here is that using this as part of their agenda, nationalists can and do always come into power but they bring a lot of problematic ideologies as well. Again, turning to nationalists does not necessitate having stricter immigration laws. Those two are only loosely related.


I know a lot of nationalists hide pretty wretched agendas behind their nationalism, this is why nationalism can be dangerous and why I don't really justify something because it's in the name of nationalism. The trick is to try and weed out the agendas from nationalists, so that Adolf Hitlers don't pop up more. However this doesn't change that people like us can use nationalists for our own benefit. Nationalism is inane in the sense that it's based off land and nationalists are just people I use to make sure I get what I want with a _"don't you want your country to be better?"_ stance so that people don't live in hellholes.



Reaper said:


> Again ... change for the sake of change is the wrong way to go about this and nationalism is definitely not the best way. Again, EU is just as nationalistic and totalitarian which is why I'm not against brexit, but at the same time don't be fooled by nationalists and their charm. Nationalism is not sustainable because at its core there's a lot of regressive ideas that hold the progress back.


Change brings new possibilities friend, the EU just gave people shite that just kept getting worse.

It's all a matter of waiting right now, and hoping the UK doesn't pull an Egypt.


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Gandhi said:


> Brexit is about British people controlling Britain.
> 
> I trust in nationalist Brits more than I do Leftist Germans.
> 
> Guess which group will make sure azans fuck off more?


Britain being one of the most multi-cultural secularist nations for several hundred years still hasn't moved in the direction of extreme pandering. I don't see how being autonomous is going to change that. This idea that EU somehow makes European nations lose their sovereignty is exactly one of those lies that got nationalists the vote. EU does not control britain's immigration policy (from non-EU countries), nor its internal politics around secularization. 



> I know a lot of nationalists hide pretty wretched agendas behind their nationalism, this is why nationalism can be dangerous and why I don't really justify something because it's in the name of nationalism. The trick is to try and weed out the agendas from nationalists, so that Adolf Hitlers don't pop up more. However this doesn't change that people like us can use nationalists for our own benefit. Nationalism is inane in the sense that it's based off land and nationalists are just people I use to make sure I get what I want with a _"don't you want your country to be better?"_ stance so that people don't live in hellholes.


So you trade one potential hell hole, with another potential hell hole hoping that nationalists can be controlled? Well, if people keep voting in nationalists, they still run the risk of handing over military power to the nationalist. Is it a risk worth taking? 



> Change brings new possibilities friend, the EU just gave people shite that just kept getting worse.
> 
> It's all a matter of waiting right now, and hoping the UK doesn't pull an Egypt.


Ok, but you haven't yet established why giving nationalists power is any better than giving leftists the same power except for keeping muzzies out of Britain ... which are already in there in the millions. So again I ask .. what's next?


----------



## ErickRowan_Fan (Feb 8, 2014)

It had to be done. The EU was over-stepping its boundaries, even the President of the European Council admitted as much. The EU fanatics in charge ruined the union for everybody involved, a Brexit was the only real choice that could've been made when confronted with the reality of a failing union.

Hopefully there will be many more exits in the coming years. I'm sure that the British were never against a union with other Europeans, a trade union beneficial to all, they merely resisted a United States of Europe. That kind of a system was never going to work out for us. Eventually, there would've been violence, instead of a democratic vote. The British may have saved all of us from that.


----------



## Gandhi (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Reaper said:


> Britain being one of the most multi-cultural secularist nations for several hundred years still hasn't moved in the direction of extreme pandering. I don't see how being autonomous is going to change that. This idea that EU somehow makes European nations lose their sovereignty is exactly one of those lies that got nationalists the vote. EU does not control britain's immigration policy (from non-EU countries), nor its internal politics around secularization.


Too ignorant myself to reply to this unfortunately.



Reaper said:


> So you trade one potential hell hole, with another potential hell hole hoping that nationalists can be controlled? Well, if people keep voting in nationalists, they still run the risk of handing over military power to the nationalist. Is it a risk worth taking?


The EU was already taking off to become a hell hole, Brexit just sets us back to a neutral state where now all parties will hunger for power. The former already was going to become a hellhole, the latter will either become a hellhole or a better Britain. I understand why you're worried and why the Remain vote wasn't wholly bad though.



Reaper said:


> Ok, but you haven't yet established why giving nationalists power is any better than giving leftists the same power except for keeping muzzies out of Britain ... which are already in there in the millions. So again I ask .. what's next?


Today I give nationalists power, tomorrow I give leftists power, I'll give power to people depending on the time & situation to whatever I realize is better. I'm not loyal to either side, but I will give one of the fighters a bigger dagger in a fight if they're fighting for something I want and another day give the opponent the same dagger to fight the person I helped before. I'm not loyal to either of them, I am loyal to what I want to see achieved essentially.


----------



## Darthe11 (Sep 12, 2015)

This is funny and relevant, so I thought I'd post it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAgKHSNqxa8


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Gandhi said:


> Too ignorant myself to reply to this unfortunately.


Kudos. 



> The EU was already taking off to become a hell hole, Brexit just sets us back to a neutral state where now all parties will hunger for power. The former already was going to become a hellhole, the latter will either become a hellhole or a better Britain. I understand why you're worried and why the Remain vote wasn't wholly bad though.


Like I said, I'm not pro-EU either. I'm against some of the reasons why people chose to leave the EU though. It's not about remain or exit for me, but it's about why .. and when you really think about it, some of the reasons why this has happened are not pleasant. The necessity for smaller borders is something I fully appreciate. Restrictive immigration is something I fully appreciate. But when you look at its core, separation, isolationism and restrictive immigration do not solve any of the social problems that england is currently facing or will face in the next 20-30 years because the people are already there. This is why Hitler decided to kick out the jews because he realized that his villain was the jew and then saw that jews already exist in germany. 

Now I'm not saying that that's likely to happen again, but ultimately what do you do when you already have the so-called enemy inside your borders even after you vote to leave the union that you think is creating that problem - which it never created anyways? 



> Today I give nationalists power, tomorrow I give leftists power, I'll give power to people depending on the time & situation to whatever I realize is better. I'm not loyal to either side, but I will give one of the fighters a bigger dagger in a fight if they're fighting for something I want and another day give the opponent the same dagger to fight the person I helped before. I'm not loyal to either of them, I am loyal to what I want to see achieved essentially.


If you have a lump in your body, you get it biopsied. If the biopsy comes out positive saying that you have cancer, you get surgery and chemotherapy and try to get it out of your system. You don't go to a homeopath and give them your money to give you a sugar pill.


----------



## Gandhi (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Reaper said:


> Like I said, I'm not pro-EU either. I'm against some of the reasons why people chose to leave the EU though. It's not about remain or exit for me, but it's about why .. and when you really think about it, some of the reasons why this has happened are not pleasant. The necessity for smaller borders is something I fully appreciate. Restrictive immigration is something I fully appreciate. But when you look at its core, separation, isolationism and restrictive immigration do not solve any of the social problems that england is currently facing or will face in the next 20-30 years because the people are already there. This is why Hitler decided to kick out the jews because he realized that his villain was the jew and then saw that jews already exist in germany.
> 
> Now I'm not saying that that's likely to happen again, but ultimately what do you do when you already have the so-called enemy inside your borders even after you vote to leave the union that you think is creating that problem - which it never created anyways?
> 
> If you have a lump in your body, you get it biopsied. If the biopsy comes out positive saying that you have cancer, you get surgery and chemotherapy and try to get it out of your system. You don't go to a homeopath and give them your money to give you a sugar pill.


Yeah I feel you, I've spoken to a lot of Brexit supporters who were racist schmucks.

I've even spoken to people who had a mindset of _"even if you're an ex muslim, you're just less shit, but shit nonetheless"_. Hell, some even want to believe I'm pretending to be an apostate, as they believe muslims are snake like in their manipulation. Some said I wouldn't contribute to Europe, when I showed them I could they went _"you think we don't have people here contributing the way you want to? fuck off"_ and they basically showed that they don't want _"people like me"_ to contribute. I know why you're worried, believe me.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Apparently 7 other countries are looking to leave the EU now. (Just said on BBC news)


----------



## Reaper (Sep 4, 2013)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Gandhi said:


> Yeah I feel you, I've spoken to a lot of Brexit supporters who were racist schmucks.
> 
> I've even spoken to people who had a mindset of _"even if you're an ex muslim, you're just less shit, but shit nonetheless"_. Hell, some even want to believe I'm pretending to be an apostate, as they believe muslims are snake like in their manipulation. I know why you're worried, believe me.


I know. I've faced that kind of comment right here on this site. You can't be a nationalist without being a xenophobe and no matter how much you decry xenophobia as rationalist and right-minded and practical, it is still at its core a regressive attitude and like all regressive attitudes basically stunts growth and implodes. It's a self-damning set of ideas. 

Humanity was never meant to evolve in isolation from one another. We're nomadic by nature and ultimately being a single species capable of reproducing with all other humans will eventually become one-race. Even the most isolated countries now have to open up. Take Japan for example. They have no choice left but to open immigration as their society is in a state of population reduction.


----------



## WeAllGotHacked (Jun 16, 2016)

Good result!


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

zrc said:


> Apparently 7 other countries are looking to leave the EU now. (Just said on BBC news)


Also Scotland will probably want to leave UK now as well as Northern Ireland. Then Basques will decide to have a referendum to leave Spain, Northern Cyprus will seek independence, Transnistria will get independence from Moldova, Nagorno Karabakh from Azerbaijan and everybody will be happy, right? Right?

We're all totally better off alone, divided.


----------



## Mainboy (Jan 30, 2012)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Genking48 said:


> It's an amazing time, all of this is really fascinating to watch happen.


See Sinn Fein want a vote on United Ireland too.


With another referendum likely happening in the next 2 years. I think this time it will be a yes vote. Seen people on twitter saying they would vote yes this time round and had a few friends telling me the same. But i'm not getting carried away until the date is confirmed.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Punkhead said:


> Also Scotland will probably want to leave UK now as well as Northern Ireland. Then Basques will decide to have a referendum to leave Spain, Northern Cyprus will seek independence, Transnistria will get independence from Moldova, Nagorno Karabakh from Azerbaijan and everybody will be happy, right? Right?
> 
> We're all totally better off alone, divided.


Let Scotland do what Scotland wants. No one is forcing them to stay with Britain.


----------



## TheGeneticFreak (Feb 27, 2016)

I don't really understand why Wales wanted to leave they kinda shot themselves in the foot as they get a lot of money from the EU and I'm pretty sure they dislike tories.


----------



## Gandhi (Sep 15, 2012)

*Brexit SPREADS across Europe: 
Italy, France, Holland and Denmark ALL call for referendums*

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/682339/Brexit-spreads-across-Europe-Italy-France-Holland-Denmark-all-call-for-referendums


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

Gandhi said:


> *Brexit SPREADS across Europe:
> Italy, France, Holland and Denmark ALL call for referendums*
> 
> http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/682339/Brexit-spreads-across-Europe-Italy-France-Holland-Denmark-all-call-for-referendums


I don't blame them, not to mention the EUwas keeping a whole bunch of stuff secret until after the vote.. seriously if it's not bad why hide it all? Also if more countries leave Scotland and the rest who like the EU may not want to try to join it, it wouldn't be worth it without the bigger EU nations in it.


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

Miss Sally said:


> I don't blame them, not to mention the EUwas keeping a whole bunch of stuff secret until after the vote.. seriously if it's not bad why hide it all? Also if more countries leave Scotland and the rest who like the EU may not want to try to join it, it wouldn't be worth it without the bigger EU nations in it.


What was the EU keeping secret?

Genuine question, haven't seen anything of that nature.

Link me 

EDIT> have to say, fellow stay people are annoying me on my facebook, stop blaming people who voted in when a huge amount of supposed remain 'supporters' failed to vote. The under 50's only have our peers to blame.


----------



## kendoo (Oct 23, 2012)

Do we know what percentage of Scotland actually voted yet.


----------



## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Well British stocks are crashing and the pound is now the lowest its been since the 80s

congratulations?


----------



## Genking48 (Feb 3, 2009)

Gandhi said:


> *Brexit SPREADS across Europe:
> Italy, France, Holland and Denmark ALL call for referendums*
> 
> http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/682339/Brexit-spreads-across-Europe-Italy-France-Holland-Denmark-all-call-for-referendums


Denmark is not gonna leave, not until something incredible happens like the far right gaining enough political power on their own to force it trough, and so far the two parties that would like an referendum have 28% of the political power in the country combines. 

The majority of our politicians don't want it and I don't think the majority of the people want it.

So unless something crazy happens like the two parties gain a huge amount of support in one election I don't think it'll happen, would be interesting to watch though.


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Those who are celebrating right now are gonna wake up from this dream one day and say "what the fuck have we done?". But there will be no way back. There's already no way back.


----------



## Braylyt (Jan 19, 2015)

Only countries that are likely to succeed are Italy and The Netherlands. The latter is gonna be a 10 second squash match.



Punkhead said:


> Also Scotland will probably want to leave UK


You really just have no clue what you're talking about, do you? :lmao


----------



## Rugrat (Jun 30, 2013)

I guess Boris will be PM. I'm not excited, other than being mildly amusing, I honestly can't say he has anything going for him. Just a far right chancer.

If Labour got behind Corbyn, they could really turn the screw on the Tories.


----------



## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

My question is are these new "liberated" nations going to follow the Russian trade blocks?

If not you are going to have "fascist insurrections" and "oppressed Russian minorities" all along eastern Europe

also stop the "battle of Britain" bullshit, a ton of the pilots were foreign nationals


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

stevefox1200 said:


> Well British stocks are crashing and the pound is now the lowest its been since the 80s
> 
> congratulations?


Market will stabilize, right now everything is chaos. If it's like this for a while I'd be worried but remember a lot of the high business people were supporting remain, so some market trouble is bound to happen to scare folks.


----------



## Natecore (Sep 16, 2013)

Punkhead said:


> Those who are celebrating right now are gonna wake up from this dream one day and say "what the fuck have we done?". But there will be no way back. There's already no way back.


Wrong. All they'd have to do is rejoin. No going back? Get real. Don't think for a second those that believe in an inherent right to rule over others wouldn't welcome back a rejoining state immediately. Globalists will fight forever to tear down and undermine this decentralist movement.

But they won't have to rejoin as Brexit will be a success. It already is a success.


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Natecore said:


> Wrong. All they'd have to do is rejoin. No going back? Get real. Don't think for a second those that believe in an inherent right to rule over others wouldn't welcome back a rejoining state immediately. Globalists will fight forever to tear down and undermine this decentralist movement.
> 
> But they won't have to rejoin as Brexit will be a success. *It already is a success.*


How so?


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Braylyt said:


> You really just have no clue what you're talking about, do you? :lmao


Taking the words from a sarcastic comment out of context really shows your level of intelligence. Why didn't you quote the entire comment? Or are you just too stupid to understand sarcasm?


----------



## Oda Nobunaga (Jun 12, 2006)

Let us leave the personal insults out of the discussion.


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

David Cameron's speech:


----------



## Gandhi (Sep 15, 2012)

Morrakiu already GOING HAM on remain supporters. :lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## Bearodactyl (Apr 2, 2012)

Just a friendly reminder to take anything you read in this thread about the Netherlands/Holland with a few big grains of salt. Sure the far right has its following here, but things certainly aren't as cut and dry as they are portrayed to be.

And unless Great Brittain really starts coming out of this anything other than as miserable as they have been thusfar, any vote here on the matter would certainly not be taken lightly, not after yesterday.

Usually I'm a big fan of change, keeps things interesting and all that, but getting up this morning and reading about the results has been a tough pill to swallow. I was hoping for change towards a future world where we celebrate our similarities more than we do our differences. Alas, yesterday's vote is a step in the opposite direction it would seem. 

Wait and see - time, I guess.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

Celebrating similarities means bending over for some middle-aged French guy and his middle-aged German mistress?


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

The biggest news I learned today was that the number of right-leaning people in Europe (and here on WF) is worryingly high.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

Shocked to see this outcome. I figured the fear and power of a biased worldwide media would ensure that remain would win. But given the massive failure that the EU has been, it just seems more and more people have had enough of the current situation and many members of the ruling class.

It's going to be rocky, but I believe Britain will be better for this. And I definitely see more exits to follow, especially from contries with economies crushed by the idiocy of the EU and globalisation.


----------



## Bearodactyl (Apr 2, 2012)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...hat-the-eu-is-hours-after-voting-to-leave-it/

Just... wow. :wow


----------



## 256097 (Aug 11, 2013)

UK VOTE, UK CONFUSE, UK BASH, UK DO GOOD?


----------



## downnice (Aug 21, 2013)

Thank god we are free from our oppressive undemocratic overlords in Brussels. We are finally free to determine our own fate!

Great day for the UK!

I really do not get why people are overreacting to the stock market. They made a prediction and it did not come out the way they thought it would. It will be fine in a couple of weeks when everyone calms down We are tired of bailing out failed states like Greece and carrying the EU.

We are going to renegotiate the trade deals. The EU needs the UK more than the UK needs the EU


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

Bearodactyl said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...hat-the-eu-is-hours-after-voting-to-leave-it/
> 
> Just... wow. :wow


 Kind of a misrepresentation.

A lot of it will be Remain supporters who thought we would win reacting to the beginning of the results and wanting to know what happens next.


----------



## Gandhi (Sep 15, 2012)

Happy day. 8*D


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

secretly, I think Germany wants the other big countries to exit so they can monopolise the money flow.


----------



## tommo010 (Jul 15, 2008)

The general feeling in Scotland today


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

Dat hypocrisy running so deep :banderas










Probably less effective to call everyone who disagrees with you politically a racist or a bigot when you're constantly attacking them for being white or old and implying they must be racist or their opinions don't matter as much because of their race or age.

The UK made the right choice.


----------



## Rankles75 (May 29, 2011)

Last night, my country did something to itself that I thought was anatomically impossible...


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

CamillePunk said:


> Dat hypocrisy running so deep :banderas
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm really confused with all the hate, you had the martyrdom of Jo Cox, her body wasn't cold before her hubby and Remain politicized it. You had BBC saying Remain was going to win by a landslide. (LOL BBC unbiased gais!) You have lots of minorities and young people registering. There is no shady voter fraud. So really who's fault is it? Was a 70%+ voter turn out so where was everyone else? Now they want to bitch? Why are most of the people complaining about whites.. fuckin white themselves? What a bunch of loons.

The complainers sum up what's wrong with these young people, ignorant, no pride, trusting whatever leftist media tells them because they love smoke blown up their ass, having zero accountability and worst of all.. thinking everyone else will cover for them. Nah i don't gotta vote, someone's got my back. Now some want a re-vote. Oh but if it went Remain, they'd be telling everyone else to suck it and be happy. Guess those "old people" give a fuck about voting more than the whiny cum stains that rage on twitter.


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Brexit shock - France 'overtakes UK as world’s fifth largest economy' after pound plunges

:maury It's already working out great for UK, great job guys!


----------



## inzenity (Sep 1, 2014)

CamillePunk said:


> Dat hypocrisy running so deep :banderas
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yup, compare that to farage's initial reaction when the vote seemed to go the other way.

As history learns, the realists always have to clean up the mess from the socialists before things really get out of control. But do not make the mistake to expect any gratitude or courtesy from that special bunch. Was census suffrage really that bad:grin2:


----------



## Rick Sanchez (Dec 30, 2012)




----------



## Oda Nobunaga (Jun 12, 2006)

Judy Garland's Biggest Fan said:


>


EU going







right now.


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

Punkhead said:


> Brexit shock - France 'overtakes UK as world’s fifth largest economy' after pound plunges
> 
> :maury It's already working out great for UK, great job guys!


It just happened, why not wait and see? Are knee jerk reactions really some kind of valid proof of well, anything?


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Such a warped contrast to political leanings in this thread to that of other forums and nearly everybody on my FB feed. Farage is a cunt and hopefully we'll see the back of him now he has nothing else to work towards.

I voted Remain but holy fuck...the amount of overreaction on Facebook was unbearable. 'I woke up and I started crying' 'I'm moving to Canada' 'I'm emigrating' 'My kids will starve and be prostitutes in ten years'. I'm not happy with the result but I've come to accept it and now we'll have to cooperate instead of slinging flippant remarks and idle threats.


----------



## Seb (Jun 13, 2007)

Punkhead said:


> Brexit shock - France 'overtakes UK as world’s fifth largest economy' after pound plunges
> 
> :maury It's already working out great for UK, great job guys!


Seems rational to judge the economic impact of Brexit based on what's happened in the first 12 hours after the result :kenny



CamillePunk said:


> .


People labelling others as Racist whilst they racially-stereotype Leave voters as Old/White/Scared/Racist/Xenophobic/Anti-Immigration :banderas


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

Judy Garland's Biggest Fan said:


>


I don't think it's going to be as bad as many say......however, you set yourself up on this one


----------



## Doc (Oct 4, 2010)

It didn't even say on the side of the bus that the 350 million would be used just for the NHS. 

Remain campaigners need to take their blinkers off. You lost. Get over it and start supporting the country.


----------



## Oda Nobunaga (Jun 12, 2006)

BehindYou said:


> I'm sorry but you set yourself up on this one...


Damn. You had to go there, didn't you? :mj2


----------



## Gandhi (Sep 15, 2012)




----------



## markoutsmarkout (Dec 30, 2014)

What a glorious day for Britain, nationalism, self-determination, and democracy. A slap in the face to all leftists and globalists, and a true victory for mankind.


----------



## xvampmanx (Apr 2, 2012)




----------



## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

I've been reading stuff about this for a good chunk of today, but the amount of overreaction is astounding and appalling. It's going to take years before we even have an idea if this was a good decision on the whole or not.


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

Seb said:


> People labelling others as Racist whilst they racially-stereotype Leave voters as Old/White/Scared/Racist/Xenophobic/Anti-Immigration :banderas


 By exactly the same token, it's not fair to say that Remain voters all think that way. IT would be just as easy to put one together of extremist Remain views.

Doesn't '_Old White Men_' refer to a very specific kind of people who have power? As opposed to just meaning anyone who is old and male and white. 

I wouldn't consider it a racist term/stereotype.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE (Sep 12, 2013)

Loved this cover.


----------



## MrMister (Mar 11, 2005)

I had to look up the ethnic demographics to confirm by bias...I mean confirm what I assumed was true for the UK.

It's almost 90% white people :lmao

So yes mostly white people voted...for exit AND remain.


----------



## gamegenie (Aug 14, 2011)

BehindYou said:


> By exactly the same token, it's not fair to say that Remain voters all think that way. IT would be just as easy to put one together of extremist Remain views.
> 
> Doesn't '_Old White Men_' refer to a very specific kind of people who have power? As opposed to just meaning anyone who is old and male and white.
> 
> I wouldn't consider it a racist term/stereotype.


You people will make a discourse of race out of any discussion.











I bet if this forum was a video game thread on PlayStation vs XBOX , it would somehow turn into white vs black in that thread too.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

So I'm against voting. They always say every vote counts but even with a "close" result like this it was a difference of like 2 million votes. Likewise I hate the whole dichotomy of vote for yourself but vote for the what best suits the country in general. 

But holy crap, I really wish I hadn't let other people decide this. Brexit won, so I have done my very best to educate myself on WHY it won but I can't seem to find any answers. While everything is all what-ifs as this is all new territory, the potential cons of leaving the EU far outweigh the potential benefits. 

From what I've understood of this, we simply aren't a strong enough country without the EU and the people who will suffer the most are people like me, who are young and are living pay cheque to pay cheque on around minimum wage. If they start smashing up the taxes, increasing the cost of everything to sustain the cost of having to pay for all of the things the EU provided beforehand then I'm screwed. I can barely afford to live now. That is if I'm not made redundant first, as I work in the finance sector.


----------



## CGS (Feb 7, 2004)

Doc said:


> It didn't even say on the side of the bus that the 350 million would be used just for the NHS.
> 
> Remain campaigners need to take their blinkers off. You lost. Get over it and start supporting the country.












Sure we can get into technicalities but let's not kid ourselves please. 

It's clear misrepresentation from Farage to swing votes his way but frankly anyone who took his word for it, even though he's not even an MP and clearly has no control over any form of the budget is an idiot.


----------



## Doc (Oct 4, 2010)

CGS said:


> Sure we can get into technicalities but let's not kid ourselves please.
> 
> It's clear misrepresentation from Farage to swing votes his way but frankly anyone who took his word for it, even though he's not even an MP and clearly has no control over any form of the budget is an idiot.


I'm not disputing it was a marketing ploy. Both sides have been guilty of it.

But that 350 million WILL be used to fund things like the NHS, local councils, local jobs.


----------



## Larry Davis (Aug 11, 2014)

For a long time I thought Boris Johnson was just a Darrell Hammond character.


----------



## CGS (Feb 7, 2004)

Doc said:


> I'm not disputing it was a marketing ploy. Both sides have been guilty of it.
> 
> But that 350 million WILL be used to fund things like the NHS, local councils, local jobs.


Can't even be certain of that tbh. 

All we have is the word of a bunch of politicians (lol) that the money will be spent to improve local communities, NHS etc... The truth is that money can go anywhere.


----------



## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Punkhead said:


> Brexit shock - France 'overtakes UK as world’s fifth largest economy' after pound plunges
> 
> :maury It's already working out great for UK, great job guys!


THE RISE OF THE NEW FRENCH EMPIRE BEGINS NOW






VIVE LA FRANCE 

YOU ONLY THOUGHT THE HUNDRED YEARS WAS OVER

(that is one of the better national anthems)


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

CGS said:


> Sure we can get into technicalities but let's not kid ourselves please.
> 
> *It's clear misrepresentation from Farage* to swing votes his way but frankly anyone who took his word for it, even though he's not even an MP and clearly has no control over any form of the budget is an idiot.


According to Google Vote Leave hates Farage. Not sure how it's misrepresentation from him. Last he said on the NHS was he would pledge 3 billion a year, which is certainly much less than 350 million a week.

Farage seems like a decent guy who is often distorted by the media, much like Trump. I looked into his supposed "racism" and was utterly baffled by the charge and the absence of evidence. Come on guys, let's stop calling each other racists just because you have different political views.


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

CamillePunk said:


> According to Google Vote Leave hates Farage. Not sure how it's misrepresentation from him. Last he said on the NHS was he would pledge 3 billion a year, which is certainly much less than 350 million a week.
> 
> Farage seems like a decent guy who is often distorted by the media, much like Trump. I looked into his supposed "racism" and was utterly baffled by the charge and the absence of evidence. Come on guys, let's stop calling each other racists just because you have different political views.


 I'm not sure if h is a decent guy per se but honestly, it was embarrassing that people are trying to hold a non-MP responsible for Leave's policies and campaign.

He absolutely should of not been asked about the £350 million, that is a question Boris Johnson should be getting asked.

Asking Firage is no more relevant than asking any non-elected leave campaigner, its nothing to do with him.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

Yes when these butthurt bitches talk about old white people they aren't talking about members of the House of Lords, they're talking about your regular white person over the age of 45 or so. 

The contempt of the young for the old runs strong in any society at any time in history but usually the young are a bit more discreet about their disdain and hate for the old farts who need to die off because we can't even with their stupid oldness anymore. Nowadays they add white to the mix because why not?

The whining of these little bitches is hilarious, as is the backing given to them by sad elitists. Oh those old people voted for leave but they're going to die soon, I have to deal with it for the next 50 years! No you don't you twats. If you want Britain back in the EU, then work and make it happen. They expect that whatever they like is what they will get because they deserve it because, and if they don't get it they throw a tantrum. The entitlement and selfishness. Yes old people have less time left on earth than you, this somehow means they should get less say than you? Fuck off. That's just one of the many selfish entitled little twat whines making the rounds of twitter today.

It's like a bunch of 6 year olds coming up with reason after reason why they should get to eat a tub of ice cream for dinner, each one more selfish than the last.


----------



## Blackbeard (Apr 23, 2014)

Absolutely terrible news. Today I am ashamed to be British unk3

I am not surprised the xenophobic working class fools in England voted to leave but I wasn't expecting Wales to stab us in the back like this.

My voice has been ignored and my future has been completely ripped away from the palm of my hands :no:


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

CGS said:


> Sure we can get into technicalities but let's not kid ourselves please.
> 
> It's clear misrepresentation from Farage to swing votes his way but frankly anyone who took his word for it, even though he's not even an MP and clearly has no control over any form of the budget is an idiot.


Not Farrages idea but nice try. He stated as such on Good morning Britain.


----------



## Doc (Oct 4, 2010)

Blackbeard said:


> Absolutely terrible news. Today I am ashamed to be British unk3
> 
> I am not surprised the xenophobic working class fools in England voted to leave but I wasn't expecting Wales to stab us in the back like this.
> 
> My voice has been ignored and my future has been completely ripped away from the palm of my hands :no:


Ashamed to be British?

Behave yourself.

If you can't bring yourself to do that then your lost


----------



## Majmo_Mendez (Jul 18, 2014)

Blackbeard said:


> Absolutely terrible news. Today I am ashamed to be British unk3
> 
> I am not surprised the xenophobic working class fools in England voted to leave but I wasn't expecting Wales to stab us in the back like this.
> 
> My voice has been ignored and my future has been completely ripped away from the palm of my hands :no:


You should have been ashamed to be British the moment you elected a Muslim to be mayor of your capital ffs


----------



## Blackbeard (Apr 23, 2014)

Majmo_Mendez said:


> You should have been ashamed to be British the moment you elected a Muslim to be mayor of your capital ffs


I don't live in London.


----------



## AJ Leegion (Nov 21, 2012)

Personally I'm ectastic about the news, leaving the EU and David Cameron resigning. As for the value of the pound dropping.


----------



## Addychu (Nov 26, 2014)

Im so done with the UK, seriously!


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

The votes of older white people should definitely count for less than their younger counterparts. 



> xen·o·pho·bi·a
> /ˌzenəˈfōbēə,ˌzēnəˈfōbēə/
> 
> noun
> ...


St. Louis Cardinals fans whining on the Internet about the team signing a South Korean pitcher is xenophobia. Someone who intensely dislikes or fears "the other" with no logical basis for having concerns is xenophobic. 

Voting to leave a highly centralized regulatory super state that was pushing member states to raise taxes to support extremely flawed Keynesian economic policies, and having valid concerns about Turkey's entire population being under the auspices of the EU, are not signs of xenophobia. Being concerned about the gradual erosion of countries' cultures as native populations continue to refuse to sustainably reproduce while the populations of the descendants of immigrants from considerably different cultures are projected to dramatically increase over the next several generations is not xenophobia. 

If, hypothetically, 28 million people moved from Saudi Arabia to the United States, I would rightly be concerned about the obvious consequences of such a migration. Merely because the general migratory movement from certain states to others is less obviously massive, and moving by slower, lesser degrees, does not mean voters should not at least contemplate what the long-term ramifications of such migration are, both the good and the bad, for their countries.


----------



## A-C-P (Jan 5, 2010)




----------



## Seb (Jun 13, 2007)

DesolationRow said:


> St. Louis Cardinals fans whining on the Internet about the team signing a South Korean pitcher is xenophobia. Someone who intensely dislikes or fears "the other" with no logical basis for having concerns is xenophobic.
> 
> Voting to leave a highly centralized regulatory super state that was pushing member states to raise taxes to support extremely flawed Keynesian economic policies, and having valid concerns about Turkey's entire population being under the auspices of the EU, are not signs of xenophobia. Being concerned about the gradual erosion of countries' cultures as native populations continue to refuse to sustainably reproduce while the populations of the descendants of immigrants from considerably different cultures are projected to dramatically increase over the next several generations is not xenophobia.
> 
> If, hypothetically, 28 million people moved from Saudi Arabia to the United States, I would rightly be concerned about the obvious consequences of such a migration. Merely because the general migratory movement from certain states to others is less obviously massive, and moving by slower, lesser degrees, does not mean voters should not at least contemplate what the long-term ramifications of such migration are, both the good and the bad, for their countries.


Good post as per, fair few mongs in here that would benefit from reading it.

Being concerned about having borders we can't control as evidenced by a net 500,000 population increase in one year, and the consequent strain this puts on housing, education, NHS, welfare, jobs & wages, etc... is not Xenophobia. There's more to this issue than, for example, Mohammed now being the most common baby name in the UK. No-one is anti-immigration, people just want control of their own borders back.


----------



## tommo010 (Jul 15, 2008)

Addychu said:


> Im so done with the UK, seriously!


Addy come to Scotland I'm certain they'll be having another independence vote and as an English man living in Scotland I'm here to stay :becky

also the amount of dumb in this video makes my head hurt :bunk

https://www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/10153842562976939


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

From what I understand this Brexit business makes migration worse, at least at the beginning. The cost of slamming the door in the face of people still trying to move around under the Free Movement rules before we officially exit is far higher than that of simply letting them pass. So now with there being a time limit on it, everyone is going to rush to get their passports and citizenships in before it's too late and we're just going to allow it as we can't afford to say no. This may eventually lead to things being revoked and people being deported in the future maybe if things go "well" but for now all you've done is increased traffic, not quelled it. This is obviously simplistic but you get the idea. I'm just going on what I understand and not doing that annoying thing in political debates where people act like they have all the answers.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

Seb said:


> Good post as per, fair few mongs in here that would benefit from reading it.
> 
> Being concerned about having borders we can't control as evidenced by a net 500,000 population increase in one year, and the consequent strain this puts on housing, education, NHS, welfare, jobs & wages, etc... is not Xenophobia. There's more to this issue than, for example, Mohammed now being the most common baby name in the UK. No-one is anti-immigration, people just want control of their own borders back.


Thank you.



Pizzamorg said:


> From what I understand this Brexit business makes migration worse, at least at the beginning. The cost of slamming the door in the face of people still trying to move around under the Free Movement rules before we officially exit is far higher than that of simply letting them pass. So now with there being a time limit on it, everyone is going to rush to get their passports and citizenships in before it's too late and we're just going to allow it as we can't afford to say no. This may eventually lead to things being revoked and people being deported in the future maybe if things go "well" but for now all you've done is increased traffic, not quelled it. This is obviously simplistic but you get the idea. I'm just going on what I understand and not doing that annoying thing in political debates where people act like they have all the answers.


I do agree with you that this is an unfortunate temporary byproduct of the vote. Will be interesting to watch how this matter finds resolution.


----------



## Mr. Socko (Sep 2, 2006)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Doc said:


> Those 'fucking northern farmers' who put food on your table and milk in your tea for no profit for themselves?
> 
> Farmers in this country have been bent over since the EU was originally started.
> 
> If your so annoyed about the north go.and get your milk and goods from the European mainland. In fact disappear and go live there.


Don't British farmers make something crazy like 60% of their income from EU subsidies? Think Ireland might even be more than that.

To an uninformed outsider it seems like the EU have been keeping farming alive in the northwestern European region. How do British farmers expect to make up the difference in their income?


----------



## The_Kliq (Feb 19, 2015)

Blackbeard said:


> Absolutely terrible news. Today I am ashamed to be British unk3
> 
> I am not surprised the xenophobic working class fools in England voted to leave but I wasn't expecting Wales to stab us in the back like this.
> 
> My voice has been ignored and my future has been completely ripped away from the palm of my hands :no:


How has this "ripped the future away from the palm of your hands"?


----------



## Blackbeard (Apr 23, 2014)

tommo010 said:


> https://www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/10153842562976939


The really sad thing is that video doesn't surprise or shock me. So many ignorant tits voted to leave the EU for the exact same reasons as him fpalm


----------



## Unorthodox (Jan 8, 2013)

I think the big cities like Manchester, Liverpool and London voting remain speaks volumes. These are big cities with people who are forward thinking and want what's best for the country yet we all got let down by shitty little inbred towns like Bolton & Bury voting to leave because of Farage and Johnson rambling about immigration. Big cities should have counted as 1 area instead of lumping the entire north west in together. Wools.


----------



## Doc (Oct 4, 2010)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Mr. Socko said:


> Don't British farmers make something crazy like 60% of their income from EU subsidies? Think Ireland might even be more than that.
> 
> To an uninformed outsider it seems like the EU have been keeping farming alive in the northwestern European region. How do British farmers expect to make up the difference in their income?


Farmers and fisherman have been strangled by EU price and stock regulations for years. 
Ask any fisherman how he voted and I'd say 99% chose leave.

But according to some I guess that makes them racist.


----------



## Banez (Dec 18, 2012)

i hope things work out in long run for the brits.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

Unorthodox said:


> I think the big cities like Manchester, Liverpool and London voting remain speaks volumes. These are big cities with people who are forward thinking and want what's best for the country yet we all got let down by shitty little inbred towns like Bolton & Bury voting to leave because of Farage and Johnson rambling about immigration. Big cities should have counted as 1 area instead of lumping the entire north west in together. Wools.


Or those other places thought for themselves instead of swallowing the shit the EU has been shovelling for years... So tired of this "big cities are smarter!" Mentality. Yeah, cause the world mostly run from those shitholes has been fucking sunshine and rainbows.


----------



## Doc (Oct 4, 2010)

tommo010 said:


> Addy come to Scotland I'm certain they'll be having another independence vote and as an English man living in Scotland I'm here to stay :becky
> 
> also the amount of dumb in this video makes my head hurt :bunk
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/10153842562976939


I'll help build hadrian's wall again with you if you like? 
And when Scotland claims it's independence we'll have our submarines, planes, helicopters and army divisions back thankyou. 

Say hi to Putin for me.


----------



## Blackbeard (Apr 23, 2014)

Doc said:


> And when Scotland claims it's independence we'll have our submarines, planes, helicopters and army divisions back thankyou.


As long as we have our North Sea oil revenue back.


----------



## Doc (Oct 4, 2010)

Blackbeard said:


> As long as we have our North Shore oil revenue back.


Deal.

New trade agreements with countries around the world will see the remaining members of the UK right. 
Whilst the Scots rely on, well a bit of oil and some culture?


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

@AryaAnark Hey instead of being a cowardly cuck and negging me for my opinion how about providing a counter-argument.






CAN'T BARRAGE THE FARAGE. :mark:


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

Special note of appreciation of and respect for MEP Daniel Hannan, who eloquently spearheaded the Leave campaign, tirelessly working and voting for a referendum which, having succeeded, deprives him of a plush, comfortable job in the European Parliament. He was a candy bar that voted for Halloween. Every country could use a politician with such a degree of integrity.


----------



## Cipher (Mar 27, 2016)

I don't know much about this, but I just read that the pound is already back to where it was in February...so what's the downside to this? I really don't know much about it being from Texas, but leaving the EU sounded like a good thing from what I have read.


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

@DesolationRow @CamillePunk @CJ; @MissSally; @SHIV;


With all the doom and gloom and end of the world talk it seems like already one of Remains key arguments is being undermined in action.


http://www.express.co.uk/finance/ci...n-trade-relations-with-Britain-outside-the-EU




> *Germany, USA and Canada ALL say they want special trade deals with post-Brexit Britain*
> 
> GERMANY has joined the United States and Canada in reaching out to Britain to stress the importance of trade deals with the UK outside of the European Union (EU).
> 
> ...



So in less than 24 hours Obama backtracked and vowed to continue the "special relationship" as well as post-brexit deal, The biggest member of the EU and biggest contributor Germany wants to help us with a constructive negotiation deal and make as "an associated partner country" and Canada has committed to a post-brexit deal as well.

*All less than 24 hours after Brexit.*

Remain's trade deal argument is already being thoroughly debunked and whilst yes there are some significant short term consequences with the strength and value of the pound particularly the fearmongering and panicking from the Remain supporters is without a doubt shown to be reactionary as shown by news like this.

Let us all give this thing a few years to settle down so we know the score shall we? .


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

DesolationRow said:


> Special note of appreciation of and respect for MEP Daniel Hannan, who eloquently spearheaded the Leave campaign, tirelessly working and voting for a referendum which, having succeeded, deprives him of a plush, comfortable job in the European Parliament. He was a candy bar that voted for Halloween. Every country could use a politician with such a degree of integrity.


Daniel Hannan is the true MVP of the Leave campaign although his contribution will be overshadowed by UKIP and more prominent Tories. His work ethic, constant working and probing for the referendum to begin with and his eloquent and outstanding arguments for Britain outside the EU certainly helped push the tide towards the result we got. And as you already said, the man has an unbelievable amount of integrity and fights for what he believes in to the absolute core.

If he somehow ends up in the Conservative leadership race (which is doubtful but stranger things have happened) then I will strongly consider registering to vote for him.


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

I didn't know Canada and the US were in doubt but in regards to Germany,

Directly from _Handelsblatt Global Edition_ (the German paper the UK news is sourcing the above article)


> The German government aims to push for the European Union to negotiate an association agreement with Britain once it leaves the E.U., *but wants to avoid making too many concessions that would give incentives for other states to follow suit*, according to an internal German finance ministry paper seen by Handelsblatt.
> 
> An association treaty spells out trading rules and other regulations between the European Union and a non-E.U. country, for instance whether import tariffs apply to certain goods or services.
> 
> *A treaty with Britain, once it had left the European Union, should not offer too much leeway to Britain in gaining access to the European Union’s internal market*, said the ministry’s document, of which Handelsblatt has obtained a copy.


 So the 2 pro Brexit UK papers left out the bad bits.


----------



## DoolieNoted (Dec 5, 2015)

I don't care either way, but the salty tears of the remainers are truly delicious today. A lot of very smug people have had their shit-eating grins removed in a most satisfying way.

Consider it from another point of view.. 
If you were in a relatively wealthy country outside of the EU and were asked to vote on joining it - how quick would you be to jump into the money pit?


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

BehindYou said:


> I didn't know Canada and the US were in doubt but in regards to Germany,
> 
> Directly from _Handelsblatt Global Edition_ (the German paper the UK news is sourcing the above article)
> 
> So the 2 pro Brexit UK papers left out the bad bits.


Will be interesting to see what the implications of that are. Can only wait until we are brought on to the negotiating table.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

Ah, yes, @L-DOPA, I meant to quote that very same story concerning Germany, the U.S. and Canada all seeking special trade deals with Great Britain in a post-Brexit world. Quite good that you did. 

Also, it would appear that Mr. Hannan would very much be a candidate worth registering to vote for, a vanishingly rare specimen indeed. He was the MEP and the MVP. :lol


----------



## CretinHop138 (Sep 9, 2015)

Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty.

You're going to be hearing a lot about that within the next few weeks/months. If it wasn't invoked yesterday then something tells me this was all about getting Boris into No 10 more than the EU Ref.


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

Majmo_Mendez said:


> Blackbeard said:
> 
> 
> > Absolutely terrible news. Today I am ashamed to be British
> ...


What the fuck does someone's religion have to do with their capability to run for office?


Oh boris went leave to get a shot at number 10 for sure. Farage whilst being a bellend has pure motives and believes in what he says. 

The trade without side the EU never worried me too much. I thought we may take a hit but we not going to go bust or anything stupid. 

My main worry is the protection workers rights in the EU gave us. Also the fact i can not freely move is going to be annoying. Migration is a healthy thing for countries. Immigration can be but needs to be controlled. The main political parties have to start understanding that this needs to be discussed. Border controls are a key thing to people. All the rational right wing posters (seb, cp (even if i massively disagree with him on farage capabilities of being PM) etc) agree that shutting borders totally is just ew but border controls are needed. Always like the aussie system and it seemed a good idea. 

What i am curious for is what happens to the non british people over here from the EU working? A lot of them even don't know what will happen to them


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

@AryaDark @CamillePunk @CJ @In Vino Veritas @L-DOPA @THE SHIV @SpeedStick


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

Unorthodox said:


> I think the big cities like Manchester, Liverpool and London voting remain speaks volumes. These are big cities with people who are forward thinking and want what's best for the country yet we all got let down by shitty little inbred towns like Bolton & Bury voting to leave because of Farage and Johnson rambling about immigration. Big cities should have counted as 1 area instead of lumping the entire north west in together. Wools.


your attitude is a big part of the reason why remain lost, contempt, disdain, arrogance, thinking you can talk about people like that with no consequences.

well they just fucked your shit up in part because they decided to do something about getting shit on. didn't your mommy ever tell you you catch more flies with honey than vinegar? guess not.


----------



## Cipher (Mar 27, 2016)

Damn. Been a while since I've seen ol' Ron Paul.


----------



## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

Gandhi said:


> *Brexit SPREADS across Europe:
> Italy, France, Holland and Denmark ALL call for referendums*
> 
> http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/682339/Brexit-spreads-across-Europe-Italy-France-Holland-Denmark-all-call-for-referendums


----------



## FriedTofu (Sep 29, 2014)

*Re: The EU Referendum: Brexit or Remain*



Mr. Socko said:


> Don't British farmers make something crazy like 60% of their income from EU subsidies? Think Ireland might even be more than that.
> 
> To an uninformed outsider it seems like the EU have been keeping farming alive in the northwestern European region. How do British farmers expect to make up the difference in their income?


The UK govt will step in to contribute the subsidies. It's a dirty little secret in agriculture in most developed nations as they can afford it to keep their farmers competitive in pricing.


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

You know what would be a bigger historical event than the Brexit turn? If anywhere on the internet people could have a political discussion without people slinging the terms "Xenophobic, racist, bigot" around at people for having different opinions or concerns about immigration. It would be nice if reason would prevail over reactionary name calling. Maybe these people would learn something rather than having a narrow view on someone while simultaneously claiming everyone who doesn't think like them is "this or that".

A conversation is a two way street, not a sermon, not covering your ears and hurling insults. If you're really open minded shouldn't you consider ALL opinions instead of just your own? How can you be "progressive" if all you do is consider yourself the only valid opinion? Arrogance does not make you progressive, it makes you a closed minded asshole without consideration.


----------



## FriedTofu (Sep 29, 2014)

Miss Sally said:


> You know what would be a bigger historical event than the Brexit turn? If anywhere on the internet people could have a political discussion without people slinging the terms "Xenophobic, racist, bigot" around at people for having different opinions or concerns about immigration. It would be nice if reason would prevail over reactionary name calling. Maybe these people would learn something rather than having a narrow view on someone while simultaneously claiming everyone who doesn't think like them is "this or that".
> 
> A conversation is a two way street, not a sermon, not covering your ears and hurling insults. If you're really open minded shouldn't you consider ALL opinions instead of just your own? How can you be "progressive" if all you do is consider yourself the only valid opinion? Arrogance does not make you progressive, it makes you a closed minded asshole without consideration.


Wait...you want people who don't share your views to be more politically correct? :trump would not approve.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

I saw good in both sides, and also bad. Things will become more stable once the hysteria has died down. Not much will change for a long time yet. I was always voting leave, I'd be lying if I said immigration wasn't a part of why. But as I say it was a part and not the main. 

The way voting went is very telling of the divide in this country that is present. Another reason is likely the thought of Cameron resigning, many have become tired of him and his ideas for a better britain and ultimately played a part in his demise in office. 

Am I happy about it? Absolutely. Because now the fun begins. And will see of the countries are there for us after this. Like we have been to them in the past.


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

FriedTofu said:


> Wait...you want people who don't share your views to be more politically correct? :trump would not approve.


I'm asking people to try and see outside their own views, it's hard and frustrating but not impossible. Even if you cannot agree with someone you can at least understand their viewpoint. I'm not asking for anyone to be PC, but even if I was, shouldn't the Politically Correct people having a meltdown on Twitter follow their own PC culture? Or is it all just bullshit they preach to silence opposition and claim the "highroad"? Do as I say, not as I do should be their mantra. :quite


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

Meh there is a tiny part of the leave side who are xenophobic and racist but there are mongs on the leave side too. I can respect the leave sides views even if i disagree with some of them.


----------



## 4everEyebrowRaisin (Feb 25, 2012)

No doubt that some voted Leave for legitimately hateful reasons, it's a given. I doubt being independent will change a fucking thing when it comes to immigration in all honesty.


----------



## DeeGirl (Aug 18, 2014)

A-C-P said:


>


Possibly the greatest gif I've ever seen :lmao


----------



## Phaedra (Aug 15, 2014)

Hope everyone's happy. I don't know one single person who is though.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

Phaedra said:


> Hope everyone's happy. I don't know one single person who is though.


You and Pauline Kael.


----------



## Mike Smalling (Sep 30, 2005)

Out of curiosity, a question to all you Brits on here.

On a scale of 1/10, how Xenophobic would you say you are, (i.e., the TL;DR version) as a median of the whole?


----------



## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

Miss Sally said:


> You know what would be a bigger historical event than the Brexit turn? If anywhere on the internet people could have a political discussion without people slinging the terms "Xenophobic, racist, bigot" around at people for having different opinions or concerns about immigration. It would be nice if reason would prevail over reactionary name calling. Maybe these people would learn something rather than having a narrow view on someone while simultaneously claiming everyone who doesn't think like them is "this or that".
> 
> A conversation is a two way street, not a sermon, not covering your ears and hurling insults. If you're really open minded shouldn't you consider ALL opinions instead of just your own? How can you be "progressive" if all you do is consider yourself the only valid opinion? Arrogance does not make you progressive, it makes you a closed minded asshole without consideration.


That wouldn't happen if people did not make comments like this.




Majmo_Mendez said:


> You should have been ashamed to be British the moment you elected a Muslim to be mayor of your capital ffs


How exactly is that comment not racist, bigoted , Xenophobic? If someone said the same thing but instead of saying Muslim it was black, they would get the same reaction.If people would stop making ignorant statements like the above, then they wouldn't have to be called out as those things.

I love how when someone makes a bigoted comment and gets called out for it, people like you complain about them getting called out for it. If someone said, oh America is in so much trouble because they elected a black president you think that would be ok and shouldn't be called out as racist or bigoted ?


----------



## razzathereaver (Apr 2, 2012)

Apparently, the vast majority of signatures on that petition for a 2nd referendum don't even come from the UK.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

I really hope the second Referendum happens, I promise I will use my vote this time. Remain should crush by a landslide.


----------



## Majmo_Mendez (Jul 18, 2014)

birthday_massacre said:


> That wouldn't happen if people did not make comments like this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Like I give a slightest shit whether is my comment judged as "racist, bigoted, xenophobic" by moronic, overly sensitive liberal cry babies :maury And btw Muslim =/= race


----------



## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

Majmo_Mendez said:


> Like I give a slightest shit whether is my comment judged as "racist, bigoted, xenophobic" by moronic, overly sensitive liberal cry babies :maury And btw Muslim =/= race


Here is the def. of race - A group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group:.

Muslims fall into that category do they not? 











You can say all the bigoted, racist, xenophobic things all you want, my point to Sally is, if people make comments like the one you made, then others are going to call you out on it.


----------



## MrMister (Mar 11, 2005)

No, Muslims don't all speak the same language lol.


----------



## Majmo_Mendez (Jul 18, 2014)

birthday_massacre said:


> Here is the def. of race - A group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group:.
> 
> Muslims fall into that category do they not?
> 
> You can say all the bigoted, racist, xenophobic things all you want, my point to Sally is, if people make comments like the one you made, then others are going to call you out on it.


Am I being trolled here? Yes, that's ETHNIC GROUP, not RACE, race is defined by BIOLOGICAL properties. I seriously hope you know the difference between being Muslim and being Middle-Eastern. 

in any case, stop posting and get yourself educated, son :maisie3


----------



## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

MrMister said:


> No, Muslims don't all speak the same language lol.


Neither do caucasians but that is a race


----------



## MrMister (Mar 11, 2005)

birthday_massacre said:


> Neither do caucasians but that is a race


:garrett

I knew you'd double down. Your trolling is too predictable.

pls stop trolling


----------



## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

MrMister said:


> :garrett
> 
> I knew you'd double down. Your trolling is too predictable.
> 
> pls stop trolling


Oh because I refuted your language claim? It's not trolling, it was refuting what you said said. It's not trolling. Nothing I have said is trolling, I have it all backed up with definitions. 






Majmo_Mendez said:


> Am I being trolled here? Yes, that's ETHNIC GROUP, not RACE, race is defined by BIOLOGICAL properties. I seriously hope you know the difference between being Muslim and being Middle-Eastern.
> 
> in any case, stop posting and get yourself educated, son :maisie3



http://www.thefreedictionary.com/race

1. A group of people identified as distinct from other groups because of supposed physical or genetic traits shared by the group. Most biologists and anthropologists do not recognize race as a biologically valid classification, in part because there is more genetic variation within groups than between them.
*2. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the Celtic race.*
3. A genealogical line; a lineage.
4. Humans considered as a group.

Its both. It does not have to be just based on genetics. Like the definition says *Most biologists and anthropologists do not recognize race as a biologically valid classification, in part because there is more genetic variation within groups than between them.*

So you may want to get some education. 


The whole thing about oh its not racist because they are Muslim or Mexican because those are not races is semantics anyways. People can claim it's not racist all they want, its still bigoted and saying someone is racist is the same as saying they are bigoted.

It's always a stupid argument when they mean the same thing.


----------



## MrMister (Mar 11, 2005)

Your definition states that a race needs to share a language.

Muslims don't share a language.

Last warning for trolling.


----------



## MOX (Dec 6, 2011)

@Camille Punk I didn't realise that would upset you so much. All this time I thought you were doing a parody Trump supporter gimmick. How wrong people can be, huh? 

As for counter arguments, I've been discussing/debating/arguing with people who actually matter to me for months about these issues. A wrestling forum is not somewhere I seek out intellectual debate on serious issues which directly affect my life. I know you have a high opinion of yourself but I don't share it. I'll probably peruse Deso's posts on the subject but you really don't inspire that kind of interest in me. I tend to skip your posts that go beyond a sentence or two because you're always kinda angry and convinced you know what's right for everyone even when the subject is a thousand times more complicated then you understand it to be. I also prefer debating with people who are a bit more chilled, understand that their point of view is just a point of view and are willing to listen and take on board new information. You don't seem to be that kind of person.

Thanks for the mention though, it's nice to know you are emotionally invested in my existence.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

Pizzamorg said:


> I really hope the second Referendum happens, I promise I will use my vote this time. Remain should crush by a landslide.


Oh so now this time all those young people will actually show up 

There will be no second referendum, for years anyway. You had your chance and you blew it. Wanting an instant mulligan on something like this shows how entitled and out of touch with the real world some Remainers are.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

deepelemblues said:


> Oh so now this time all those young people will actually show up
> 
> There will be no second referendum, for years anyway. You had your chance and you blew it. Wanting an instant mulligan on something like this shows how out of touch with the real world Remainers are.


Talks are already going ahead about a second referendum or the choice of overruling the vote.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

Pizzamorg said:


> Talks are already going ahead about a second referendum or the choice of overruling the vote.


Talks among whom? People who want a second referendum or to overrule the vote?

Those people don't have power over the issues. It's entitled, wishful thinking. Cameron is not going to cement himself as one of the top 5 most hated Prime Ministers ever - he still has a chance to slip in outside the top 5 - by taking up the issue of an override or a second referendum while he is still in office. The Tories are not interested in losing dozens (if not more) MPs to UKIP next election because they voted to override the vote or to hold another referendum. The Tories are not going to vote for either of those options. It would be political suicide for many of them. Same thing for a not small number of Labour MPs, which is why Corbyn has come out on the record as opposing a second referendum.

So many Tory voters and so many Labour voters who voted Leave would head straight for Mr. Farage's crew if the vote were to be ignored or they were told in essence you didn't vote right the first time so we're going to vote again. 

If the Tories don't vote for it, it's not going to happen. 

An override or another referendum are pipe dreams.


----------



## Arya Dark (Sep 8, 2006)

*I always love the attitude of "oh hey the vote didn't go my way I think we should vote again!" :hglol*


----------



## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

AryaDark said:


> *I always love the attitude of "oh hey the vote didn't go my way I think we should vote again!" :hglol*


Too bad the US can't do that with Hillary vs Bernie but I am sure the DNC would just rig the election again lol


----------



## Rick_James (May 11, 2012)

birthday_massacre said:


> Here is the def. of race - A group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group:.
> 
> Muslims fall into that category do they not?
> 
> ...


Muslims aren't a race in the same way that Christians aren't a race. They are of course religious groups comprised of people of various races, but those terms themselves do not indicate race. Beyond that, people of any race can potentially be a muslim (as I'm sure you are aware there are white and black muslims in America, for example).


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

AryaDark said:


> *I always love the attitude of "oh hey the vote didn't go my way I think we should vote again!"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Tbf farage was coming out with this stuff before the vote as well :side:. 


However even as a remainer it is kind of silly. It has happened we just have to deal with it. Or can i have another election to get rid of the tories? Plz?


Also people moaning about how they wish they had would this time vote can get lost tbh. If you did not vote you have not right to moan :draper2


----------



## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

Rick_James said:


> Muslims aren't a race in the same way that Christians aren't a race. They are of course religious groups comprised of people of various races, but those terms themselves do not indicate race. Beyond that, people of any race can potentially be a muslim (as I'm sure you are aware there are white and black muslims in America, for example).



You are right about that but I don't think the people that are hating on Muslims are thinking about the white or black ones. 

When people have hatred of Muslims, and are called racist, like people that have hatred for Mexicans are also called racist, then it's brought up but those are not races so it can't be racism , it's really just semantics isn't it? What the person is really meaning to say is those people are bigoted. But bigoted and racist are pretty much the same thing when it comes to things like hating on Muslims or Mexicans. 

For me they mean the same thing, I see why people say I am wrong about the race thing but I see no difference between calling someone a bigot or racist when it comes to hating on Muslims or Mexicans.

IMO when ever this topic comes up, saying oh that can't be racist because Muslims or Mexicans are not a race, we should be focusing on what was said and if that was bigoted or not because that is what the person is really saying. We always get too caught up in oh it can't be racist because it's not a face thing instead of looking at the real issue of what was said.


----------



## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

Pizzamorg said:


> Talks are already going ahead about a second referendum or the choice of overruling the vote.


No they're not.


----------



## razzathereaver (Apr 2, 2012)

Pizzamorg said:


> I really hope the second Referendum happens, I promise I will use my vote this time. Remain should crush by a landslide.


Even assuming a second referendum would take place (it won't btw), what makes you so certain that the Remain camp would "crush by a landslide"?


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

razzathereaver said:


> Even assuming a second referendum would take place (it won't btw), what makes you so certain that the Remain camp would "crush by a landslide"?


Because all those people who are really upset that Leave won are going to vote this time! Even though most of them did vote (Remain) the first time. Just like the signatures to the petition for a new referendum are mostly people who already did vote Remain. It's a fantasy that large numbers of Leave voters are having second thoughts and/or are signing this petition.

A new referendum because the losing side is super butthurt over losing would cause an explosion in Britain among the people who voted Leave. They'd be even more motivated than they were the first time, when their superior motivation to that of Remain delivered them a victory.

All I'm seeing in the media today is more condescension towards Leave voters, oh they don't understand, a referendum is too simplistic for such a complicated question, the decision should have been made by "experts" not the masses *(experts who are well aware of just who butters their bread so to speak, the authoritarian globalists do)*, independence and sovereignty are such nebulous ideas why would anyone vote for those over the (allegedly) obvious superior economic benefits of Remain? They voted against their interests! Blah blah blah.

They think the common people are grubby mindless little greed monsters, all the elitists have to do is say "This will be better for your bank account you dummies!" Or, "You'll get more 'free' stuff from the government!" and the stupid sheeple will fall all over themselves to do whatever the elitists say. They look down their noses at nationalism and patriotism and sovereignty, they look down their noses at the people who didn't listen to their wisdom, it is inconceivable to them that anyone could not appreciate and accept their wisdom, the only explanation must be ignorance and stupidity. Or racism. There's some lowlife Labour MP urging Parliament to simply ignore the vote, and hold its own vote on the matter which obviously should end in a Remain victory because MPs are so much smarter and better than the peasants. It's all a direct assault on democracy in favor of the authoritarian technocracy elitists love.

The people can't be trusted to have power over themselves, we are the ones who have been trained and educated to rule and we are the ones who have been trained and educated to know better than those filthy stupid serfs.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

AryaDark said:


> *I always love the attitude of "oh hey the vote didn't go my way I think we should vote again!" :hglol*


:lol

Well, the European Union is the body that struck down the referenda of The Netherlands, France and Ireland, countries which all voted against EU integration. The Dutch voted by 61% against the EU Constitution. 

While it seems politically untenable in the United Kingdom since neither the Tories nor many within Labour want anything to do with it, including Jeremy Corbyn, it was inevitable that certain interests behind "Remain" would push for a "Did You Truly Mean That June 23 Vote?" referendum, followed by a "Are You Bloody Well Sure About That Vote?" one after that. :lol

What's also funny is that certain voices of the EU have exhibited such bitterness so as to advocate the nearly immediate removal of Great Britain from the EU. :lol


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

razzathereaver said:


> Even assuming a second referendum would take place (it won't btw), what makes you so certain that the Remain camp would "crush by a landslide"?


Because of the amount of Leave voters, who after they actually won, went "oh shit, what have I done." with even the likes of Farage and his underlings having very similar reactions?


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

Pizzamorg said:


> Because of the amount of Leave voters, who after they actually won, went "oh shit, what have I done." with even the likes of Farage and his underlings having very similar reactions?


Fuck it, I want this to happen. I want them to undermine their entire democratic process just to see what will happen next. My guess is civil unrest or just a complete undermining of any future referendums. Manipulate, complain and repeat, until desired results.


----------



## Blackbeard (Apr 23, 2014)

Pizzamorg said:


> I really hope the second Referendum happens, *I promise I will use my vote this time.* Remain should crush by a landslide.


fpalm

Why are you even in this thread if you didn't bother to vote in the first place? You've got no right to complain since you just sat by and allowed others to make the decision for you.


----------



## razzathereaver (Apr 2, 2012)

Pizzamorg said:


> Because of the amount of Leave voters, who after they actually won, went "oh shit, what have I done." with even the likes of Farage and his underlings having very similar reactions?


Okay, so a few morons wasted their vote on an outcome they didn't want. But from what I've seen on various social media and news outlets, the amount of people who did this seems negligible at best. The Leave campaign attained a total of 17,410,742 votes altogether, while the Remain camp got 16,141,241 votes; that means Leave won by a margin of 1,269,501 votes. I highly, highly doubt that the exact number of Leave voters who later regretted their decision is anywhere near that high; but if you had figures that prove such a case, then you'd have a basis for claiming that Remain would "crush by a landslide" in a hypothetical second referendum. In realty, however, it's probably a few hundred at the very most. 

And what are you on about Farage? He's been having an absolute field day with this result.


----------



## CGS (Feb 7, 2004)

2nd Referendum to make all dem Northern farmers mad pls.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

Pizzamorg said:


> Because of the amount of Leave voters, who after they actually won, went "oh shit, what have I done." with even the likes of Farage and his underlings having very similar reactions?


Is there any actual evidence that there are large amounts of Leave voters who have changed their minds?

Right now there isn't. The petition is a joke, so many signatures aren't even from the UK and of the genuine ones far more are from sore loser Remain voters than regretful Leave voters.


----------



## FatherJackHackett (Apr 11, 2016)

It's quite fascinating, almost everyone on my Facebook seems to have become an expert on the political and economic affairs of the United Kingdom overnight. I had to laugh when browsing through the posts, especially when a large proportion of those behind them have shown little to no interest in politics before. "Ashamed to be a British citizen", "Anyone know of any cheap flights to Canada", "Broke down when I saw the news this morning, what has become of my country xx" Jesus, get a grip. Obviously there are some this referendum has a direct personal effect on, which is fair enough in that case, but when the dust has settled most will go about their lives like nothing has even happened.

Now I'm not claiming to be an expert on these matters - far from it - but the very fact that people are using the economic crash in the *hours *following Britain voting to leaving the EU and its Prime Minister announcing his resignation as a means of saying "I told you so" just goes to show that they don't know anything whatsoever about finance or the volatility of the market.

Both sides had valid arguments but Leave was the most compelling for me. The British electorate have voted to bring the power structure closer to them, with the hope that there will no longer be any place to hide for politicians who have developed a tendency to shrug their shoulders and say that their hands were tied by EU red tape. Many have rightly suggested that it's cutting off one's nose to spite one's face in certain areas of the country, at least in the short term, but the poor distribution of wealth to certain areas is something we can attempt to address every few years in a GE, but we only had one chance at solving the EU problem and that was now.

Cameron and the Remain campaign have absolutely sleepwalked into this situation. For years they failed to gauge the tide of public opinion on important issues, and rather arrogantly thought that a campaign littered with empty platitudes about unity and 'safety' and forecasts of the undead hordes rising up and the sky falling in would bring the impressionable public back around. It also didn't help that almost every time Remain figureheads went on TV they would talk about the need for reform in the EU, thereby tacitly acknowledging that a vote to stay in the EU as it is is a flawed decision. The EU's reaction to Cameron's attempts to negotiate Britain's position with them furthermore suggested that significant reform was not going to be possible in this organisation, leading to many still on the fence simply connecting the dots and sealing their Leave vote. Also damaging was their failure get Corbyn - a traditional socialist of staunch anti-EU sentiment - and by extension his Labour party on board with their message in any meaningful way.

While the silent majority of Remainers have accepted the vote despite not agreeing with it, I've noticed there have been a lot of petty ad hominem outbursts by some who seem to be blaming old white people for this result, and suggesting that anyone who voted Leave is a small-minded, ignorant racist or xenophobe. I'm just hoping that the irony of making sweeping generalisations about people of certain demographics based on their personal opinions and beliefs in order to label them intolerant and xenophobic is not lost on them :maury

In the past couple of days I have heard ghastly suggestions made without a hint of satire or humour of bringing in compulsory intelligence tests needing to be passed before allowing someone to vote, or an age restriction on the incredibly disrespectful grounds that 'the old are going to be dead soon anyway therefore shouldn't get to decide the fate of the young'. Guess what, 1) despite their expiry date rapidly approaching, the elderly STILL routinely turn out in higher numbers to vote than the young do; and 2) they have lived a hell of a lot longer and experienced the real world more - some have fought in wars and most worked hard all their lives and quite frankly have earned the right to have their say. As someone who is under the age of 30 I can say that the young only have themselves to blame, because they should have got off their lazy, entitled arses and went to the polling station the other night instead of posting meaningless drivel on Twitter.

It's done, now let's move forward and make the most of this opportunity we have. It remains to be seen whether we have truly made the right decision, but let's stand up for what believe in, be smart with our votes and make our voices heard in Westminster. We've shown our resolve once, let's do it again!


----------



## razzathereaver (Apr 2, 2012)

Yeah, this is a fucking joke:


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

FatherJackHackett said:


> *As someone who is under the age of 30 I can say that the young only have themselves to blame, because they should have got off their lazy, entitled arses and went to the polling station the other night instead of posting meaningless drivel on Twitter.*


 Every time my friends complain about it (I'm in Brighton so it's constant) this is the point I make.

You can't be mad at older folks for showing up to make their voice heard, be mad at the goons who didn't vote.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

When young people who like to raise stinks via social media do not vote, just be glad. 

_O tempora, o mores!_


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

razzathereaver said:


> Yeah, this is a fucking joke:


The fucking joke is that they make you put a postcode to verify your citizenship?? Like Union Europeans living in the UK don't have a postcode, and aren't the most significantly affected group that will for certain want to have a say in this.


----------



## 4everEyebrowRaisin (Feb 25, 2012)

If the democratic process is undermined because a bunch of lazy-ass pussy 18-24's in the Remain camp couldn't be bothered to vote, shit will turn ugly very fucking quickly. 

You lost. It's over. Get the fuck used to it. You could have stopped us Leavers from winning, but you failed spectacularly because of sheer laziness and stupidity. The audacity of those cunts to blame the elderly infuriates me.

"I'll vote this time! I swear I will!!" It doesn't work like that bitch. I truly hope our government doesn't give in to those pathetic assholes.


----------



## FriedTofu (Sep 29, 2014)

Miss Sally said:


> I'm asking people to try and see outside their own views, it's hard and frustrating but not impossible. Even if you cannot agree with someone you can at least understand their viewpoint. I'm not asking for anyone to be PC, but even if I was, shouldn't the Politically Correct people having a meltdown on Twitter follow their own PC culture? Or is it all just bullshit they preach to silence opposition and claim the "highroad"? Do as I say, not as I do should be their mantra. :quite


It doesn't help when both sides of the debate gloss over the bullshit sprout by people that share their position on any discussions. If you label a xenophobic message xenophobic, the other side claims persecution to avoid discussion on why it is harmful to allow such hate speech to spread. If one side can call the other side names because lulz-non PC, why be butthurt if the other side do the same?



deepelemblues said:


> Is there any actual evidence that there are large amounts of Leave voters who have changed their minds?
> 
> Right now there isn't. The petition is a joke, so many signatures aren't even from the UK and of the genuine ones far more are from sore loser Remain voters than regretful Leave voters.


I agree the petition is a joke. The country has voted and they should just respect the result and start planning for the new reality. But there is definitely a portion of votes that were protest votes against the current government rather than for leaving. How significant are those votes is up for debate. 

Whatever the outcome, the referendum is a win for those who supports democracy due to the high participation rate. But also a warning to those who play with democracy that they can get burnt. David Cameron played with fire by promising the referendum and hoping it will never come to pass and now Britain has to face the consequences. Voters who voted for leaving as protest votes but not wanting to leave have to face the consequences.


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

Anyone who moans about it that did not vote can go to hell tbf. I could be bothered to give my say why couldn't you? 

Makes a lot more sense then blaming old people who have the right to an opinion (and i know "old" people who voted remain) when they had a chance to have a say and did not bother


----------



## Rick Sanchez (Dec 30, 2012)

BehindYou said:


> I don't think it's going to be as bad as many say......however, you set yourself up on this one


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

I don't see what the big deal is economically. Of course there will be an adjustment period but nobody except maybe Jean-Claude Juncker right before he falls asleep at night wants to see Britain's economy tank. Trade between the UK and the continent is not going to drop off a cliff or anything half as dire. There's too much money to be made by everybody. Britain is too rich and productive and has too many well-educated and professionally trained people to not be a goldmine worth transacting with. And now the British government has all the freedom in the world to enact policies of its own that are attractive enough to the businesses it wants operating in the UK to stay in the UK or come to the UK, and policies as friendly to international trade as it wishes them to be. Of course Britain probably doesn't have the politicians to lead the helm of state on a truly successful course, they have the look of tired men and women. Worn out. No surprise really, even politicians can't go through The Most Important Election Ever for 5 elections (or more!) in a row without getting physically used up.


----------



## BruiserKC (Mar 14, 2010)

To those requesting a second vote...should have voted the first time around and made your voice heard. There should be no mulligans, no do-overs, not unless you really want a revolt on your hands the next time around. Many of the "Leave" votes felt disenfranchised to start with, their views were seen as ignorant and wrong rather dismissively. If you took that away from them by holding another vote, God help us all. 

Maybe I'm looking at this too simplistically (being an American for one and I try to make things as simple as possible), but it strikes me this was really about sovereignty. People were growing more and more frustrated that decisions that would impact the UK were seemingly being made in Brussels, not London. By making this vote, they were saying, "We want the decisions to be British decisions. Right or wrong, it would be on us and give us more control over our day-to-day lives."


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)




----------



## FatherJackHackett (Apr 11, 2016)

Can I also take the time to address the the myth going round that because a higher quotient of non-university educated citizens voted Leave, this somehow makes everyone who voted Leave thick or undeserving of their right to vote? Are we seriously now going to pretend that there is a heavy correlation between a having a bachelor's degree and an interest in politics (unless it's a Politics degree lol)? 

Even the ranks of students is permeated by political disengagement, a lack of critical thinking and acceptance of the status quo. I hear more political discussion in working-class pubs than I did during my time at university. Try talking to many otherwise very intelligent folks and I bet a lot of them don't know or care about politics and are happy to admit as much. Yes, it is inevitable that some disenfranchised, impressionable working class voters have misguidedly voted Leave under the impression that Brexit was all about immigration and nothing else. It is also true that plenty of 'better-educated' individuals think that voting Leave = hating Europe and have blindly bought into asinine platitudes thrown round about being 'united' and 'better together'.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

To all the people who have started using this thread solely for the purpose of insulting me - cheers by the way - I already said I revoke my right to an opinion in the thread. As I said in the same post, all I wanted was to understand WHY Brexit won but trying to find concrete motivations from people is very difficult and the few times I get any concrete answers, it's turned out that Brexit has already quashed that happening. 

I also explained why I don't vote but it has been fascinating to read/watch stories of young people in similar positions as me, voting Leave because they figure there is no chance we actually would and their Vote "means so little" they can do what they want without ramifications. I guess we all forgot that if EVERYONE thinks the same way, then it's disastrous.


----------



## Old School Icons (Jun 7, 2012)

I voted leave and I've been called every name under the sun just because I exercised my democratic right. 

Just goes to show, lots of people only believe in democracy if the outcome suits them. If it goes against them, suddenly the process is "undemocratic" 

I know my intelligence level is higher than any of them because if Remain had won I would have accepted it and moved on with my life.

There is talk some mp's will try to block the result in parliament. If they do, that is the end of democracy in my country. 

You can't cherry pick referendum results to your liking otherwise what will we be?

Oh yea, the EU like they did with Ireland and the Lisbon Treaty.


----------



## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

4everEyebrowRaisin said:


> If the democratic process is undermined because a bunch of lazy-ass pussy 18-24's in the Remain camp couldn't be bothered to vote, shit will turn ugly very fucking quickly.
> 
> You lost. It's over. Get the fuck used to it. You could have stopped us Leavers from winning, but you failed spectacularly because of sheer laziness and stupidity. The audacity of those cunts to blame the elderly infuriates me.
> 
> "I'll vote this time! I swear I will!!" It doesn't work like that bitch. I truly hope our government doesn't give in to those pathetic assholes.


The democratic process was not really undermined since those people chose not to vote which is their democratic right. It's not like they went to the polls to vote then were turned away and were forbidden to vote.




Old School Icons said:


> I voted leave and I've been called every name under the sun just because I exercised my democratic right.
> 
> Just goes to show, lots of people only believe in democracy if the outcome suits them. If it goes against them, suddenly the process is "undemocratic"
> 
> ...



Did all the people calling you names even bother to vote? If any one of them did not vote, they really cannot say anything to you. They really only have themselves to blame. You should ask them if they voted if you dont already. And if they did not, throw that back in their faces


----------



## Seb (Jun 13, 2007)

If you didn't vote you have zero right to complain. You either weren't educated enough to make an informed decision, or you didn't care enough about the result either way to vote. I was the latter - I was leaning towards Leave, but there were valid arguments for both sides. One of the reasons so many people voted Leave is because they felt they weren't being listened too and our sovereignty was threatened by others making decisions for us. Ironic really that the British people have spoken and now a bunch of Remain voters don't want to listen to them and instead want to circumvent democracy and have another vote. It's not going to happen though, so i'm taking the time to enjoy all the whining from the would be Facebook-Politicians that have come out of the woodwork.

I'm also going to throw out their that Cameron is a coward for resigning instead of seeing a process through that he initiated. It was only last year he won the support of the electorate in an unlikely majority win. Now he's going to be remembered as the PM that ran away after dividing the country, and Farage is going to go down with a bigger political legacy.


----------



## FatherJackHackett (Apr 11, 2016)

Seb said:


> I'm also going to throw out their that Cameron is a coward for resigning instead of seeing a process through that he initiated. It was only last year he won the support of the electorate in an unlikely majority win. Now he's going to be remembered as the PM that ran away after dividing the country, and Farage is going to go down with a bigger political legacy.


I think it's a case of 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' for Cameron at this point. Many hold your philosophy, and I can see the reasons why, but an equal amount of people will say that they don't want a lame duck Prime Minister half-heartedly enacting the will of the majority that he fought so hard against. 

His position is untenable and he knows it. He continued saying that he would carry on in the event of us exiting, but I don't think he ever truly contemplated the possibility that it would actually happen.


----------



## ShadowSucks92 (Mar 7, 2015)

I didn't vote mainly because by the time I really understood the whole thing it was too late for me to register, anyway this whole thing about some people who voted Remain calling people who voted Leave uneducated, racist etc all that is doing is dividing the Country which is the last thing we need, whats happened has happened and we all need to do our best to make it work for us


----------



## FriedTofu (Sep 29, 2014)

Pizzamorg said:


> To all the people who have started using this thread solely for the purpose of insulting me - cheers by the way - I already said I revoke my right to an opinion in the thread. As I said in the same post,* all I wanted was to understand WHY Brexit won* but trying to find concrete motivations from people is very difficult and the few times I get any concrete answers, it's turned out that Brexit has already quashed that happening.
> 
> I also explained why I don't vote but it has been fascinating to read/watch stories of young people in similar positions as me, voting Leave because they figure there is no chance we actually would and their Vote "means so little" they can do what they want without ramifications. I guess we all forgot that if EVERYONE thinks the same way, then it's disastrous.


It won because their side campaigned harder for it. They used both fear mongering and a hope of a better future. Remain only used the fear mongering part. Not to mention Labour's reluctance to campaign for David Cameron.

I also suspect many saw the Scotland referendum results and thought there would be enough voters who would vote for the status quo and was afraid if remain get a large majority of votes, it will be seen as a sign of support for current government policies. So they voted leave instead.


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

It's pretty concerning if people voted to make a statement and not to do the right thing, even by themselves.


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

Pizzamorg said:


> To all the people who have started using this thread solely for the purpose of insulting me - cheers by the way - I already said I revoke my right to an opinion in the thread. As I said in the same post, all I wanted was to understand WHY Brexit won but trying to find concrete motivations from people is very difficult and the few times I get any concrete answers, it's turned out that Brexit has already quashed that happening.
> 
> I also explained why I don't vote but it has been fascinating to read/watch stories of young people in similar positions as me, voting Leave because they figure there is no chance we actually would and their Vote "means so little" they can do what they want without ramifications. I guess we all forgot that if EVERYONE thinks the same way, then it's disastrous.


I haven't been following this thread so it may have been answered, but my view is that Brexit won for two main reasons

Turnout, the turnout among the pro-remain demographics was very poor, not just age wise but geography wise. Scottish turnout was poor.

Second, Michael Gove's line that this country has had enough of experts, it was extremely depressing but it was true. People don't believe what the experts say, they believe what they want to believe. People bought into a lot of wishful thinking about what Brexit would mean, they believed everything would be fine despite all the experts saying otherwise. They were all wrong or in the pocket of Europe.

We are in an age now where huge demographics don't really care about the facts, they want what they want and they will vote for it regardless of whether it can be delivered. They call people who know what they're talking about the establishment as though that's a bad thing. Look at the people in this thread who are Brexiters, they are the same people who think President Trump would Make America Great Again despite the establishment being near certain he would be a disaster.

It's not just a right wing or an uneducated thing either. In this case the uneducated and right wing have turned out overwhelmingly for Brexit and tend to support Trump but you also have crackpots and cranks with degrees who think Bernie Sanders or Jeremy Corbyn would be great leaders.


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

Seb said:


> I'm also going to throw out their that Cameron is a coward for resigning instead of seeing a process through that he initiated. It was only last year he won the support of the electorate in an unlikely majority win. Now he's going to be remembered as the PM that ran away after dividing the country, and Farage is going to go down with a bigger political legacy.


He couldn't possibly stay on after he campaigned so hard for the country to back him in remaining and his own party's supporters ignored him by over 60/40 and the country went against him. He was relying on fucking Scotland to turn it round for him. 

He will go down as the worst Prime Minister since Chamberlain for offering this referendum, probably even worse than that considering it could lead to the break up of the United Kingdom. His greatest achievement was retaining Scotland in 2014 and he's pissed that up the wall.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

People waving their finger shouting "uneducated!", "old!" etc are bigots. Most of the remain camp on social media are very bigoted. Depressing to search for information only to get their views.

I didn't vote as I couldn't find a motive/reason to shift to either side of the vote.

Nervous for the future but I hope people pull together. However, considering the nature of this referendum and how everyone who has voted has some sort of personal agenda, that will not be accomplished. I will accept every bump on the ride that the journey takes as I wasn't one who pitched a vote. So I should just accept whatever comes.


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

Apparently back in 2014 Farage called Rand Paul his political soulmate. :kobe6 I don't know what you Brits have against him but I can assure you you're wrong.


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

:mark:


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

As with most things, people find it worryingly difficult to look at other people's perspectives. 

I totally understand why people who have shitty circumstances would vote for change, that's human nature. On top of that, this is exactly who propaganda is aimed at and appeals too.

Hell, for all the talk of Brexiters' education, a desire for a better education for their children is most likely a factor in many peoples' pro leave votes (whether this will give them that is a question for the future ofc)!


It was another night of painful, boring and at times unsettling Brexiter bashing from my friends who almost all went to private schools and have seemingly unlimited financial backing from their parents. 

People who have lived lives of privilege ofcourse don't see any reasons for change cause their lives are hunky dory but growing up poor as shit, they are really starting to piss me off. It's just plain elitism.

I love Brighton in many ways but last year I was briefly ostracized by a large group of 'friends' for voting Tory instead of throwing away my vote on Green fpalm If you are not extreme left, your opinion sadly is treated with disdain here (and that is coming from someone a lot of the forum and myself would put on the left anyway).
Being a large bald man, I don't go out when EDL are in town anymore because I've been harassed by people who assume I'm a member and my Captain America shirt was mistaken for something nationalistic!



In terms of the petition, I don't think it can have any effect retroactively on this referendum anyway.
At first I thought 75% minimum vote sounded like a good idea for future referendums but on reflection, having to re-do them and effectively thereby making people vote is not the answer because people who cant be bothered first time around shouldn't have a say.


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

BehindYou said:


> As with most things, people find it worryingly difficult to look at other people's perspectives.
> 
> I totally understand why people who have shitty circumstances would vote for change, that's human nature. On top of that, this is exactly who propaganda is aimed at and appeals too.
> 
> ...


I don't doubt that people who voted for exit think that it will make this country and their lives better. Sadly they are wrong, as they'll find out when economic reality bites back takes their homes and jobs away. One of the silver linings of this is that it's the people who voted for Brexit who'll suffer the most for it.

I agree that this petition won't get what it wants. A 75% turnout and 60% victory threshold would never be achieved by either side, we'd have an unlimited series of referenda.


----------



## razzathereaver (Apr 2, 2012)

Well, this is nice:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36634407


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

razzathereaver said:


> Well, this is nice:
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36634407


 For all the talk of being intellectually superior to Brexiters, it's an embarrassment that Remain supporters are then making such fools of themselves. 

22 members before the result shows that no-one involved is interested in democracy, they just want their own way.

If people had got behind this before the result, I'd have a lot more respect for the process and supporters.



TheResurrection said:


> I don't doubt that people who voted for exit think that it will make this country and their lives better. Sadly they are wrong, as they'll find out when economic reality bites back takes their homes and jobs away. *One of the silver linings of this is that it's the people who voted for Brexit who'll suffer the most for it.*
> 
> I agree that this petition won't get what it wants. A 75% turnout and 60% victory threshold would never be achieved by either side, we'd have an unlimited series of referenda.


 And comments like this are exactly why they can't identify with Remain and why more people will turn to the right.

Your just handing the right more power by belittling their supporters.


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

BehindYou said:


> For all the talk of being intellectually superior to Brexiters, it's an embarrassment that Remain supporters are then making such fools of themselves.
> 
> 22 members before the result shows that no-one involved is interested in democracy, they just want their own way.
> 
> ...


It's not belittling at all, it's treating them like grown ups. If they're smart people who know very well what is going happen but think it's a price worth paying then my comment applies much more than if they're naïve fools who've been taken in. Would you agree that it's right that they must bear the consequences rather than the people who wanted no part of it?

The belittling, infanitilising thing to do would be to say they should be shielded from the consequences of their decision.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13402...t-camps-moved-to-the-uk-but-theres-no-chance/

Well that will certainly make Britons more amenable to Europe. 

Yes Britain voted to leave, that kind of means Britain border is now 100% undeniably the English Channel again... what side of the Channel are refugee "jungles" in Calais on again?


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

TheResurrection said:


> If they're smart people who know very well what is going happen but think it's a price worth paying then my comment still applies. Would you agree that it's right that they must bear the consequences rather than the people who wanted no part of it?


 That assumes I agree they are the reason Brexit happened but if polling is accurate, all we had to do was show up to win!

Pro-remains who didn't vote are far more responsible then people who did exercise their democratic right.

Regardless, the poor getting poorer is never a good thing. Let alone something to be routing for.


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

deepelemblues said:


> https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13402...t-camps-moved-to-the-uk-but-theres-no-chance/
> 
> Well that will certainly make Britons more amenable to Europe.
> 
> Yes Britain voted to leave, that kind of means Britain border is now 100% undeniably the English Channel again... what side of the Channel are refugee "jungles" in Calais on again?


 Well that's the point, they have less incentive to want British people to be amenable because we are not part of the EU. 

The immigrants camped in Calais aren't from the EU and are trying to get to us but are being stopped (obviously not completely). If this goes through we will deal with many more illegal immigrants on our own border because France is now better off letting them leave.


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

BehindYou said:


> That assumes I agree they are the reason Brexit happened but if polling is accurate, all we had to do was show up to win!
> 
> Pro-remains who didn't vote are far more responsible then people who did exercise their democratic right.
> 
> Regardless, the poor getting poorer is never a good thing. Let alone something to be routing for.


Who do you think should bear the brunt of the negative consequences of this? It's surely the people who voted for it isn't it? That's true whether it's the poor or the rich.

Can you explain why you think people who didn't vote at all are more responsible than people who did vote for this?


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

So let's say people get a second chance.. and Remain still loses.. will they get a third and a fourth until they get the results they want?


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

Miss Sally said:


> So let's say people get a second chance.. and Remain still loses.. will they get a third and a fourth until they get the results they want?


Yes. The fact this ever went to a referendum is an abomination, it needs to be corrected.


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

TheResurrection said:


> Yes. The fact this ever went to a referendum is an abomination, it needs to be corrected.


Sieg heil! Glad you know what's best for everyone and nobody's voice doesn't matter but your own and that Remain is 100% good and sunshine. Is it 500 pounds for a loaf of bread yet or just more Remain overreaction?


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

TheResurrection said:


> Who do you think should bear the brunt of the negative consequences of this? It's surely the people who voted for it isn't it? That's true whether it's the poor or the rich.
> 
> Can you explain why you think people who didn't vote at all are more responsible than people who did vote for this?


 The young people will take the brunt of it and by all accounts are also the people who failed to vote to Remain despite believing it.

Look, I can even answer that in the first line you quoted!


BehindYou said:


> *That assumes I agree they are the reason Brexit happened but if polling is accurate, all we had to do was show up to win!*
> 
> Pro-remains who didn't vote are far more responsible then people who did exercise their democratic right.


 If people had used their votes, we would of remained. Simple.

To claim to be more intelligent and more informed then Brexit is deeply ironic when more Stay supporters were so unintelligent and uninformed they neglected to actually go to a polling station fpalm.



Miss Sally said:


> *Sieg heil!* Glad you know what's best for everyone and nobody's voice doesn't matter but your own and that Remain is 100% good and sunshine. Is it 500 pounds for a loaf of bread yet or just more Remain overreaction?











Propaganda and referendums are exactly how the Nazis took power... So a very strange term to use.


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

Miss Sally said:


> Sieg heil! Glad you know what's best for everyone and nobody's voice doesn't matter but your own and that Remain is 100% good and sunshine. Is it 500 pounds for a loaf of bread yet or just more Remain overreaction?


It's pretty easy to make the opposition look stupid when you completely exaggerate all their claims. The remain campaign predicted that the pound would bomb once we left with respect to the dollar, that happened immediately, it as the lowest for many many years. The Prime Minister is a dead man walking, the opposition tearing itself apart, the leave campaigns promises have been exposed as lies by prominent remainder, the implied promises of less immigration have also been dissolved.

You want to know what Remain predicted, read  this . They're calling him mystic Clegg.

The parliament of this country, democratically elected, believes by a serious majority that remain is the best option for this country. That is what must happen.



BehindYou said:


> The young people will take the brunt of it and by all accounts are also the people who failed to vote to Remain despite believing it.
> 
> Look, I can even answer that in the first line you quoted!
> 
> ...


To attribute more responsibility to people who didn't vote than to the people who voted for a thing is a very stupid thing to do. 

I think you've made a bit of a leap of faith there. I don't know anyone who has said that Remain supporters are more intelligent or informed than Leavers, just that Remain voters tend to be more educated, informed and intelligent than those who vote the other way. I agree the low turn out among certain demographics is a tremendous problem.


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

TheResurrection said:


> The remain campaign predicted that the pound would bomb once we left with respect to the dollar, that happened immediately, it as the lowest for many many years.


So what? This is a knee jerk reaction by the market. The fact that it all happened at once demonstrates this. This will be smoothed out over time, once the panic settles down. Your undermining of the democratic process is also alarming and shows me that you believe in a very dangerous political ideology. History has shown 100% of the time that when the democratic process was undermined, that the results were catastrophic.


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

TheResurrection said:


> To attribute more responsibility to people who didn't vote than to the people who voted for a thing is a very stupid thing to do.
> 
> I think you've made a bit of a leap of faith there. I don't know anyone who has said that Remain supporters are more intelligent or informed than Leavers, just that Remain voters tend to be more educated, informed and intelligent than those who vote the other way. I agree the low turn out among certain demographics is a tremendous problem.


 I should be clear, not those who didn't vote in general. 
I mean people who specifically are pro EU and didn't. People are saying democracy failed but we failed democracy.

I cant figure out if I'm misreading the last part... you don't know anyone who thinks Remain are more intelligent...but they are?
Regardless, I wasn't even questioning the validity of it as much as saying people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

Lou Generation Era said:


> So what? This is a knee jerk reaction by the market. The fact that it all happened at once demonstrates this. This will be smoothed out over time, once the panic settles down. Your undermining of the democratic process is also alarming and shows me that you believe in a very dangerous political ideology. History has shown 100% of the time that when the democratic process was undermined, that the results were catastrophic.


If the House of Commons believes we should leave I believe we should leave. Representative democracy is the democracy I believe in.


BehindYou said:


> I should be clear, not those who didn't vote in general.
> I mean people who specifically are pro EU and didn't. People are saying democracy failed but we failed democracy.
> 
> I cant figure out if I'm misreading the last part... you don't know anyone who thinks Remain are more intelligent...but they are?
> Regardless, I wasn't even questioning the validity of it as much as saying people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.


I'm differentiating between Remain supporters and Remain voters. I don't think anyone's speaking up for the intelligence of those who supported remain but couldn't be arsed to vote. I agree they have let their country down. I'm not in a glass house because I voted and I helped others to vote by giving lifts.


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

TheResurrection said:


> If the House of Commons believes we should leave I believe we should leave. Representative democracy is the democracy I believe in.


This is the type of voting that was agreed upon by Britain. Now that the outcome has been deemed unsatisfactory by people like you, you fail to accept the results. You believe in selective democracy, also known as fascism. Don't sit here and lie to the people.


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

Lou Generation Era said:


> This is the type of voting that was agreed upon by Britain. Now that the outcome has been deemed unsatisfactory by people like you, you fail to accept the results. You believe in selective democracy, also known as fascism. Don't sit here and lie to the people.


The referendum is advisory and non binding. It is a large opinion poll, nothing more. It's up to our democratically elected parliament to decide if, when and how they implement it.


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

TheResurrection said:


> The referendum is advisory and non binding. It is a large opinion poll, nothing more. It's up to our democratically elected parliament to decide if, when and how they implement it.


Look up the definition of a referendum. 

One interesting thing here is that you haven't actually countered any of my posts, but merely regurgitated the same rhetoric. People like you are dangerous to democracy.


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

Lou Generation Era said:


> Look up the definition of a referendum.


In the UK referendums are usually non binding, they carry no legal weight. This was one can referendum, everyone involved understands this, I'm sorry if you don't.

On this specific issue it is also thought that the Scottish parliament currently has the power to veto any act which would extinguish EU law in Scotland. Personally I think it would be quite undemocratic to do this without the consent of the Scottish people or Parliament given that it's a power previously devolved to them. What do you think?


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

Lou Generation Era said:


> Look up the definition of a referendum.


 I was most definitely an advisory referendum and the government can choose to not leave the EU.

However, not only would it create an absolute shitstorm but it's political suicide in the next election.


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

BehindYou said:


> I was most definitely an advisory referendum and the government can choose to not leave the EU.
> 
> However, not only would it create an absolute shitstorm but it's political suicide in the next election.


Is it? The SNP explicitly don't want Brexit, the Liberal Democrats have already gone balls out saying they'll do everything they can to block it, Labour are almost invariably opposed and so are the majority of their voters. If there's an election soon all bets are off.


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

TheResurrection said:


> Is it? The SNP explicitly don't want Brexit, the Liberal Democrats have already gone balls out saying they'll do everything they can to block it, Labour are almost invariably opposed and so are the majority of their voters. If there's an election soon all bets are off.


 Ofcourse it is.

Not one of the 52% in favor of leaving would vote for those parties if they pushed through Remaining now.

If the Tories are divided then UKIP would than dominate the next election.


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

BehindYou said:


> Ofcourse it is.
> 
> Not one of the 52% in favor of leaving would vote for those parties if they pushed through Remaining now.
> 
> If the Tories are divided then UKIP would than dominate the next election.


If they pushed it through of their own accord with no referendum or justification they'd probably lose a lot of votes I agree (although all 52% is ridiculous), sure, but it wouldn't happen like that.

What happens if we negotiate a post Brexit settlement and put that to a referendum vs. remaining? How many votes are they losing then? What happens if the parties vote to implement Brexit but the Scottish Parliament blocks it and the Commons declines to overrule them in the grounds it wouldn't be democratic? The SNP we losing fuck all that's for sure.


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

TheResurrection said:


> In the UK referendums are usually non binding, they carry no legal weight. This was one can referendum, everyone involved understands this, I'm sorry if you don't.
> 
> On this specific issue it is also thought that the Scottish parliament currently has the power to veto any act which would extinguish EU law in Scotland. Personally I think it would be quite undemocratic to do this without the consent of the Scottish people or Parliament given that it's a power previously devolved to them. What do you think?


The answer is simple. Scotland cannot have its cake and eat it as well. They must decide what is more important to them: the UK or the EU. But undermining the entire process is not the answer.


----------



## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

TheResurrection said:


> To attribute more responsibility to people who didn't vote than to the people who voted for a thing is a very stupid thing to do.
> 
> I think you've made a bit of a leap of faith there. I don't know anyone who has said that Remain supporters are more intelligent or informed than Leavers, just that Remain voters tend to be more educated, informed and intelligent than those who vote the other way. I agree the low turn out among certain demographics is a tremendous problem.


How is that stupid? If you were against leaving and did not vote, you can't complain about leaving winning because you did not vote. It's the people that were against leaving fault that leave won because they did not vote. In this case every vote did matter since leave barely won. 

As for the remain voters being more educated than the leave voters, it's the job of the GOVT to inform the voters what exactly leaving vs remain means. Did they have that before the vote? Did a packet come in the mail before the vote took place explaining what each vote would do?

In the US when we have ballot questions during the election, we get a booklet in the mail that explains in great detail what each question you are voting yes or no on means and the also have a short version that gives the gist of it.

if they did not even do that, then it's their own fault they did not educate their voters on what leave really meant. 
If they did do that and people voted leave not fully understanding what leave meant, then that is on them.


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

Lou Generation Era said:


> The answer is simple. Scotland cannot have its cake and eat it as well. They must decide what is more important to them: the UK or the EU. But undermining the entire process is not the answer.


Ah right, glad to hear it's simple.

[email protected]

Can you mail her to let her know?


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

TheResurrection said:


> If they pushed it through of their own accord with no referendum or justification they'd probably lose a lot of votes I agree (although all 52% is ridiculous), sure, but it wouldn't happen like that.
> 
> What happens if we negotiate a post Brexit settlement and put that to a referendum vs. remaining? How many votes are they losing then? What happens if the parties vote to implement Brexit but the Scottish Parliament blocks it and the Commons declines to overrule them in the grounds it wouldn't be democratic? The SNP we losing fuck all that's for sure.


 Why wouldn't it?

How could we? We'd have already left.
Even if we could, it would be seen as the EU trying to scare us into staying by Brexit voters as it was before the first referendum.

It's currently unclear as to whether Scottish Parliment can block Brexit from what I have read?

If they are able to and do, it's the only perceivable way for the UK to say without the country taking a massive swing towards the extreme right in years to come.


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

TheResurrection said:


> Ah right, glad to hear it's simple.
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> Can you mail her to let her know?


Scotland should leave either the UK or the EU. You cannot sit there with a straight face and tell me that seeking to undermine the vote of the entire empire is okay. The sense of entitlement is strong in you.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

FatherJackHackett said:


> Can I also take the time to address the the myth going round that because a higher quotient of non-university educated citizens voted Leave, this somehow makes everyone who voted Leave thick or undeserving of their right to vote? Are we seriously now going to pretend that there is a heavy correlation between a having a bachelor's degree and an interest in politics (unless it's a Politics degree lol)?
> 
> Even the ranks of students is permeated by political disengagement, a lack of critical thinking and acceptance of the status quo. I hear more political discussion in working-class pubs than I did during my time at university. Try talking to many otherwise very intelligent folks and I bet a lot of them don't know or care about politics and are happy to admit as much. Yes, it is inevitable that some disenfranchised, impressionable working class voters have misguidedly voted Leave under the impression that Brexit was all about immigration and nothing else. It is also true that plenty of 'better-educated' individuals think that voting Leave = hating Europe and have blindly bought into asinine platitudes thrown round about being 'united' and 'better together'.


:jet2 post that everyone should read. 

Too many people automatically mistake being educated for being intelligent. There is such a thing as an educated moron (don't look at me :side. You can also be highly intelligent and not have lots or many academic achievements. It obviously all works vice versa too.

I didn't go to a high ranking Uni, but from my experiences as a 'mature' (only in name lol) student, I wouldn't have trusted many of my class mates or acquaintances to be able to make a sensible decision based on the arguments they made. That's on both sides by the way. Obviously there were some who seemed informed and rational. It's daft to assume anyone is capable of making or not making an informed decision, purely based on them being educated or not. From my experiences Uni tends to force feed you a lot of liberal radical idealist horse shit, anyway.



Fwiw I didn't vote either, as just like @Seb I was leaning towards leave but really didn't feel sure enough to make a clear decision. I've read and watched plenty of pieces about the whole saga, but I'm not really strong enough on politics (had to do a module on it :hogan) or economics like say CP or Deso.

Regardless, the meltdowns and hysteria in the aftermath of the vote have been hilarious :bosque It has been an excellent Facebook filter.

Whatever may come down the road, I'm sure we will all dig in together and take this country back to :moore.

Edit: Getting to listen to Gustav Holst's Jupiter so many times in this thread :banderas2


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

birthday_massacre said:


> How is that stupid? If you were against leaving and did not vote, you can't complain about leaving winning because you did not vote. It's the people that were against leaving fault that leave won because they did not vote. In this case every vote did matter since leave barely won.
> 
> As for the remain voters being more educated than the leave voters, it's the job of the GOVT to inform the voters what exactly leaving vs remain means. Did they have that before the vote? Did a packet come in the mail before the vote took place explaining what each vote would do?
> 
> ...


I agree but people who actively want something and vote for it are more responsible than people who nothing.

The government did exactly what you describe, every house in the country got a booklet explaining the outcome or the decision. The leave campaign told people to ignore it because economists told us to join the Euro in the 90s and that would have been a mistake, because they didn't predict the financial crisis, and because this country has had quite enough of experts. I am not making this up.

The TV media was very keen to remain neutral so they couldn't call out this for the fucking bullshit that it was. People ended up thinking there were experts on both sides who disagreed and nobody really knew despite the overwhelming majority being in the one side (Bremain).



BehindYou said:


> Why wouldn't it?
> 
> How could we? We'd have already left.
> Even if we could, it would be seen as the EU trying to scare us into staying by Brexit voters as it was before the first referendum.
> ...


Negotiate a settlement, find out what the terms will be, then put that to the vote against remaining in the EU. If Remain wins the rerun it will be enacting the democratic will of the people.

Yes, it is unclear.


----------



## Piers (Sep 1, 2015)

I believe Brexit is a mistake, but I wish my friends from the other side of the Channel the best for the years to come.


----------



## The5star_Kid (Mar 4, 2013)

Well 2 million and counting have signed a petition against Brexit...a little too late?


----------



## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

TheResurrection said:


> The government did exactly what you describe, every house in the country got a booklet explaining the outcome or the decision. The leave campaign told people to ignore it because economists told us to join the Euro in the 90s and that would have been a mistake, because they didn't predict the financial crisis, and because this country has had quite enough of experts. I am not making this up.
> 
> The TV media was very keen to remain neutral so they couldn't call out this for the fucking bullshit that it was. People ended up thinking there were experts on both sides who disagreed and nobody really knew despite the overwhelming majority being in the one side (Bremain).
> 
> ...



I am confused. Maybe I am wrongly understanding how you are using the word responsible since it has duel meaning. 

Are you saying that it's more the people who wanted to leave fault for leaving winning (which they got what they wanted) than the people who wanted to stay and did not vote to stay?
Unless you are talking about the people that voted to leave not really knowing what it meant and regretting it are more at fault than the people who did not vote that wanted to stay, then I can see your point, since you should not be voting for something you do not understand. But I still would put more blame on the people that wanted to stay and did not vote since if all those people voted stay would have won.

So it sounds like to me, an outsider who has no clue what stay or leave would do the leave campaign new leaving might be a bad thing, and that is why they did not want to inform the voters who were backing to leave because they did not want them to be educated what it really would do? Sounds to me like the leave group wanted to pull the wool over the eyes of those voters and tricked them into voting leave.

That happens in the media a lot here too in the US where sometimes on some issues the news stays neutral on some issues and won't call out the bullshit of one side, climate change comes to mind for one. 
but most times in the US the news is paid off to misinform the public because of big donors, we are seeing saw it in the primaries.

It seems like the media really never does their job and when they don't thinks like what is going on in Britan are going to happen.

Did the media even pro and con both sides?


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

Lou Generation Era said:


> Scotland should leave either the UK or the EU. You cannot sit there with a straight face and tell me that seeking to undermine the vote of the entire empire is okay. The sense of entitlement is strong in you.


Just FYI I'm not Scottish and have never lived in Scotland.

On the political side of things the UK government handed the Scottish government a power in 1998. A constitutional expert has looked at that power and feel that the consent of the Scottish government is required for EU kaw to be extinguished in Scotland. The Scottish government, the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish electorate do not want EU law to be extinguished in Scotland so why shouldn't they exercise the power the UK gave them? 

The UK must take the power way first, but that will make solid what they are doing, taking away Scotland's powers against the will of the Scottish government, parliament and people. Do they have the moral right to do that? Is it democratic?

Regarding the point about leaving the UK, a referendum on that issue is in the cards, however the departure looks as though it would be extremely painful. It's best for them if the UK simply stays in the EU.


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

TheResurrection said:


> Just FYI I'm not Scottish and have never lived in Scotland.
> 
> On the political side of things the UK government handed the Scottish government a power in 1998. A constitutional expert has looked at that power and feel that the consent of the Scottish government is required for EU kaw to be extinguished in Scotland. The Scottish government, the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish electorate do not want EU law to be extinguished in Scotland so why shouldn't they exercise the power the UK gave them?
> 
> ...


That's life. Sometimes you have to go through a pain to get to a destination. From where it stands, the most logical thing right now is for Scotland to vote themselves out of the UK. The excuse that it will be 'painful' is not good enough to undermine the referendum and the wishes of the majority of Britain. If Scotland truly believes that staying in the EU is correct for them, then leaving the UK will be but a mere bump in the road in the grand scheme of things.


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

birthday_massacre said:


> I am confused. Maybe I am wrongly understanding how you are using the word responsible since it has duel meaning.
> 
> Are you saying that it's more the people who wanted to leave fault for leaving winning (which they got what they wanted) than the people who wanted to stay and did not vote to stay?
> Unless you are talking about the people that voted to leave not really knowing what it meant and regretting it are more at fault than the people who did not vote that wanted to stay, then I can see your point, since you should not be voting for something you do not understand. But I still would put more blame on the people that wanted to stay and did not vote since if all those people voted stay would have won.


This arose from a discussion of who created the situation. It's my belief that the people who voted for Brexit are most likely to be hurt by it in the event it occurs. I feek that is a silver lining, that it is just that people who have put us in the situation will be hurt by it. Maybe you can say the same about stay at home Bremainers, but I don't see them in the same way. I would rather someone does not at all than votes for Brexit.



> So it sounds like to me, an outsider who has no clue what stay or leave would do the leave campaign new leaving might be a bad thing, and that is why they did not want to inform the voters who were backing to leave because they did not want them to be educated what it really would do? Sounds to me like the leave group wanted to pull the wool over the eyes of those voters and tricked them into voting leave.


This is also my feeling. The Leave campaign ran on two major issues - spending the £350m a week net cost of the EU on the NHS and getting control or immigration. Within literally hours of the result being confirmed leading remain figures are saying the former was completely unrealistic and that anyone who voted Leave expecting immigration to fall would be disappointed.



> That happens in the media a lot here too in the US where sometimes on some issues the news stays neutral on some issues and won't call out the bullshit of one side, climate change comes to mind for one.
> but most times in the US the news is paid off to misinform the public because of big donors, we are seeing saw it in the primaries.
> 
> It seems like the media really never does their job and when they don't thinks like what is going on in Britan are going to happen.
> ...


There was no issue of that here thanks to having a major public broadcaster who are considered the main news source.

They did the pros and cons of each but literally every point in favour of remain was countered with "You can't be certain of that" because they were based around predictions of experts. The pro remain would say for example "Financial institution X, Y and Z, the Bank of England and the government predict that interest rates will rise and trade will be more difficult, however Leave figures say this is unreliable" so people could easily ignore them if they were inclined to.

The Brexit campaign slogans such as "We don't control EU immigration", "The net cost if the EU is £X per year" and "EU law has supremacy over British" which are explicitly true and there#s no arguing with them, but the lack of any real exit plan made them easier to get away with. It's the that we don't control immigration but the fact is that immigration won't go down following Brexit because the country needs it to support the ageing population. EU law has supremacy but there are likely to be similar laws we have to obey post Brexit to trade with Europe. Equally there will be membership fees if we want to stay in any sort of trade deal with Europe, and maybe Freedom of Movement too.

The short of it is that you need to have a much greater understanding of politics to understand why it was in our interest to vote remain. That's why people needed to listen to the experts, but they didn't, they listened to their drinking buddies and the simple arguments they thought they could understand.


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

Lou Generation Era said:


> That's life. Sometimes you have to go through a pain to get to a destination. From where it stands, the most logical thing right now is for Scotland to vote themselves out of the UK. The excuse that it will be 'painful' is not good enough to undermine the referendum and the wishes of the majority of Britain. If Scotland truly believes that staying in the EU is correct for them, then leaving the UK will be but a mere bump in the road in the grand scheme of things.


Yes, sometimes you do have to go through pain. You do what you can to avoid it though. Scotland should do what's in Scotland's interests, the Scottish Parliament are not answerable to the UK electorate, only to the Scottish. They have no obligation to satisfy the UK electorate, that's up to Westminster.


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

TheResurrection said:


> Yes, sometimes you do have to go through pain. You do what you can to avoid it though. Scotland should do what's in Scotland's interests, the Scottish Parliament are not answerable to the UK electorate, only to the Scottish. They have no obligation to satisfy the UK electorate, that's up to Westminster.


That method would be fascism and set a dangerous precedent for the democracy of the UK as a whole. People can believe what they want to believe about what should happen, but let's call it what it is. You are advocating a fascist approach to this issue for a supposed 'greater good'.


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

Lou Generation Era said:


> That method would be fascism and set a dangerous precedent for the democracy of the UK as a whole. People can believe what they want to believe about what should happen, but let's call it what it is. You are advocating a fascist approach to this issue for a supposed 'greater good'.


I don't think you understand what fascism is.


----------



## Irish Jet (Nov 15, 2011)

I voted remain, but if there's another referendum I'd either abstain or vote Leave. It would be pretty concerning if, once again, the EU establishment just flat out rejects the will of the people.

The result is what it is. We must move on, however painful.


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

TheResurrection said:


> I don't think you understand what fascism is.


Fascism begins with undermining democracy. Point to one situation where that was not the case.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

There was a really simple solution for Scotland: vote for independence in 2014.

You know, what the English and Welsh just did. The thing Scotland is being so whiny about.

It's never-ending entitlement. We lost but we should still reap the rewards of winning because it's unfair that we lost. 

I've changed my mind I think the point will be reached before the end of 2017 that the English are tired of how obnoxious and whiny the Scots are being and give them another referendum. Then the English will set up a real international border between England and Scotland and Scotland will be the side far more hurt by it. England, meanwhile, will continue on as an economic powerhouse. Scottish pique at the English is going to blow back on Scotland yet again. Scotland could have had independence - and still could! - with a very open border between itself and England, and better feeling between the two. Yeah that ship has probably sailed.



> They did the pros and cons of each but literally every point in favour of remain was countered with "You can't be certain of that" because they were based around predictions of experts. The pro remain would say for example "Financial institution X, Y and Z, the Bank of England and the government predict that interest rates will rise and trade will be more difficult, however Leave figures say this is unreliable" so people could easily ignore them if they were inclined to.
> 
> The Brexit campaign slogans such as "We don't control EU immigration", "The net cost if the EU is £X per year" and "EU law has supremacy over British" which are explicitly true and there no arguing with them, but the lack of any real exit plan made them easier to get away with. It's the that we don't control immigration but the fact is that immigration won't go down following Brexit because the country needs it to support the abusing population. EU law and supremacy but there are likely to be similar laws we have to obey post Brexit to trade with Europe. Equally there will be membership fees if we want to stay in any sort of trade deal with Europe, and maybe Freedom of Movement too.
> 
> The short of it is that you need to have a much greater understanding of politics to understand why it was in our interest to vote remain. That's why people needed to listen to the experts, but they didnt, they listened to their drinking buddies and the simple arguments they thought they could understand.


Why would the EU want to antagonize and harm trade with one of its main export markets? Huge amounts of exports go from the continent to Britain. The EU needs trade with the UK to continue on apace. Germany is the only EU country with an economy strong enough to weather a damaging drop-off in commerce with Britain. France especially would be boned and there are plenty of EU countries who will have a rough time of it themselves if France has more economic trouble.

If you want to know the reasons "experts" are so distrusted they are 1) they've been demonstrably wrong multiple times in the recent past on very important matters of economics, politics and law, for various reasons, including personal financial and political reasons; and 2) it is very clear that most of them occupy the same social spheres as elitist transnationals, albeit much lower down in the hierarchy. A victory for Leave presents a serious ideological threat to their comfy world.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

To the UK bros. here: You did the right thing. You are more powerful than to be the EU's bottom bitch. You're going to be alright and more nations will follow your lead soon enough.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I was afraid to come in and read about this topic on a wrestling forum but I'm partially surprised at the level of discussion. My own personal opinion? Brexit is a fucking catastrophe of epic proportions and should never have been allowed to happen in the first place. I never thought that anything would ignite such disappointment on a personal and visceral level but I was truly gutted when the result came through. I think it's a horrible mistake and it has left absolute chaos in its wake. 

As for the actual vote itself, all I can think about is this:










I believe that now more than ever. So many people seem to have gone to the polls without knowing what the fuck they were even voting for. It's appalling. Scotland voted to stay. Northern Ireland voted to stay. England voted to leave but only just. We're a Union of 4 countries, 2 of which want to remain in the EU and the other 2 barely want to leave. Democracy isn't some paragon of virtue. Democracy can be fucking stupid and we're witnessing the fallout of it right now. 

The only positive I take from this is the fact that I'm currently living in the States and am thankfully paid in U$D. My salary is suddenly worth a hell of a lot more than it was a few days ago. My student loan payments have instantly become more manageable because the pound is fucking worthless. So thanks Brexit voters. I guess I owe you one.


----------



## razzathereaver (Apr 2, 2012)

:lmao


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

Lou Generation Era said:


> Fascism begins with undermining democracy. Point to one situation where that was not the case.


The British government suspended elections in the second world war, no fascism resulted.


----------



## skypod (Nov 13, 2014)

deepelemblues said:


> There was a really simple solution for Scotland: vote for independence in 2014.
> 
> You know, what the English and Welsh just did. The thing Scotland is being so whiny about.
> 
> ...


Lol "let the Scottish have a referendum". If any changes are made to Scotland it comes from our own will, people and Nicola Sturgeon. And btw if Scotland is so useless to England then why was there the same media conspiracy going on now with Sky News/BBC News, back in 2014 with the whole remain bullshit and all the lies from Cameron. People were told our oil was a small amount and the Scottish would lose their pensions (causing older people to vote remain), then weeks after the vote MPs backtracked on everything, just like they're doing now. 

I think the most amusing thing is that people still seem to have trust in these people. Let's face it we're fucked on both sides.


So much of this situation is just echoing whats already happened with us, and you can see how frustrating it is.



Anyway, I'm a leaver voter but even I can see how biased BBC/Sky news are being. Not sure how I feel about another vote, especially one so immediate. But it looks like they're going to drag out this whole Tories not having a real non-EU plan thing to convince people.

Also Northern Irish even though I live in Scotland, but I'd love to fly over and vote if there was ever a full Irish union happening. It maybe a pipe dream but I'd love to see it.


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

TheResurrection said:


> The British government suspended elections in the second world war, no fascism resulted.


You're being a strawman. The vote was postponed due to the biggest war in human history. It was not that the vote had taken place and everyone had agreed for the vote to take place and then the results had been rejected by the losers of the election. Glad someone with your mentality lost the referendum, by the way. With each passing post, your irrationality shows more and more of itself.


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

Lou Generation Era said:


> You're being a strawman. The vote was postponed due to the biggest war in human history. It was not that the vote had taken place and everyone had agreed for the vote to take place and then the results had been rejected by the losers of the election. Glad someone with your mentality lost the referendum, by the way. With each passing post, your irrationality shows more and more of itself.


You asked for a situation where democracy was undermined and it didn't lead to fascism, I gave you a situation where democracy was undermined and it defeated fascism.

You want another one, look at Ireland's rejection of the Lisbon Treaty in 2008. They rejected it, the ballot was rerun a year later and they accepted it. I've been to Ireland and there is no fascism there either.


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

TheResurrection said:


> You asked for a situation where democracy was undermined and it didn't lead to fascism, I gave you a situation where democracy was undermined and it defeated fascism.
> 
> You want another one, look at Ireland's rejection of the Lisbon Treaty in 2008. They rejected it, the ballot was rerun a year later and they accepted it. I've been to Ireland and there is no fascism there either.


Postponing an election because the world is at Nazi Germany's knees is not an undermining of democracy, contrary to what you may believe.


----------



## Doc (Oct 4, 2010)

Wow. The Resurrection is really taking the leave vote hard isn't he folks?

Face it. People have voted. The % no matter how close was on favour of leaving the EU. Make all the excuse and, thinly veiled insults you like.

We are leaving. Get with the program.


----------



## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

Heres a guy I've been following on Youtube, mostly because he hate regressives. He seems to talk some sense in this regard.


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

Lou Generation Era said:


> Postponing an election because the world is at Nazi Germany's knees is not an undermining of democracy, contrary to what you may believe.


Cancelling an election is undermining democracy, it is ridiculous to say that it isn't. It was fully justified of course because it was in the national interest.

What do you have to say to the Ireland example?



Doc said:


> Wow. The Resurrection is really taking the leave vote hard isn't he folks?
> 
> Face it. People have voted. The % no matter how close was on favour of leaving the EU. Make all the excuse and, thinly veiled insults you like.
> 
> We are leaving. Get with the program.


People have voted in an advisory, non binding referendum. The real power in Europe has left the door open for us to change our minds, the leader of the Leave campaign has written in the Telegraph that he wants freedom of movement for UK citizens and access to the single market. Meanwhile his main rival to be the Prime Minister was in favour of remain, there is no plan for what happens next, claims and assumptions are being backpedalled on at a furious rate, the Scottish probably have a veto and millions of people are campaigning for a reun.

We've voted to leave by a very thin margin, but there is still everything to play for. Did you think it would be so easy?


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Starbuck said:


> I was afraid to come in and read about this topic on a wrestling forum but I'm partially surprised at the level of discussion. My own personal opinion? Brexit is a fucking catastrophe of epic proportions and should never have been allowed to happen in the first place. I never thought that anything would ignite such disappointment on a personal and visceral level but I was truly gutted when the result came through. I think it's a horrible mistake and it has left absolute chaos in its wake.
> 
> As for the actual vote itself, all I can think about is this:
> 
> ...


The pound is rebounding already.


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

Beatles123 said:


> The pound is rebounding already.


Of course it is. The markets overreacted and will correct themselves within a short period. The notion that Britain will crumble because of a "Brexit" is ludicrous. Hundreds of years of establishment gone because you're taking back your sovereignty from some fat cats in Brussels? :ha


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Beatles123 said:


> The pound is rebounding already.


I've already made a lump transfer from my US bank to my UK bank and couldn't believe the difference in what I'm paying now compared to what I used to pay. It's kind of startling really. I know it will rebound eventually god willing. But the aspect of the referendum that I'm most bothered about isn't the economy (although that's a part of it), it's peoples attitudes towards certain things. I don't like how the world is turning more and more insular. I mean the hypocrisy of colonizing half the world only to get pissy over immigrants is kind of astounding. And I know it's not about a singular issue, I just think it's kind of insane to leave such an important decision in the hands of the uninformed masses, myself included. I did my homework before the vote but was I absolutely prepared in every way to know exactly what I was voting on? No. But I know I did a hell of a lot more than the average person. Watching the videos and clips of way too many people saying how they regret their decision because they didn't really know what they were voting for is infuriating. It's because of people like that that we're in this stupid situation.


----------



## Blackbeard (Apr 23, 2014)

We haven't left Europe yet, it's going to be years before we see what sort of effect this is going to have on our economy.

Meanwhile Labour are in complete disarry right now :banderas


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

TheResurrection said:


> Cancelling an election is undermining democracy, it is ridiculous to say that it isn't. It was fully justified of course because it was in the national interest.
> 
> What do you have to say to the Ireland example?


The election was postponed because people were actively engaged in a war and combat for their lives. It could not physically be held. We're going to have to agree to disagree on that being an undermining of democracy. 

In the Irish example, what ended up happening was that the EU became more lax with their restrictions on the second treaty and the results of the second referendum went the other way. But, I ask you this. What do you think the end game of the EU is? They want the sovereignty of the membership countries to be relinquished to them. Over time, those lax restrictions will be eroded and there will be other restrictions put in place. That is the MO if the EU. They rely on the participating countries to give up a piece of themselves to prop up the EU. They are not stupid and will get what they want in the end through bureaucracy and socialist/fascist nonsense. Britain got lucky that they never gave up their own currency and were able to walk away relatively unscathed. Just take a look at Greece. Unable to leave and driven into even more and more debt.

Any deal that promises you to give up your rights in exchange for security should be called into question.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Starbuck said:


> I've already made a lump transfer from my US bank to my UK bank and couldn't believe the difference in what I'm paying now compared to what I used to pay. It's kind of startling really. I know it will rebound eventually god willing. But the aspect of the referendum that I'm most bothered about isn't the economy (although that's a part of it), it's peoples attitudes towards certain things. I don't like how the world is turning more and more insular. I mean the hypocrisy of colonizing half the world only to get pissy over immigrants is kind of astounding. And I know it's not about a singular issue, I just think it's kind of insane to leave such an important decision in the hands of the uninformed masses, myself included. I did my homework before the vote but was I absolutely prepared in every way to know exactly what I was voting on? No. But I know I did a hell of a lot more than the average person. Watching the videos and clips of way too many people saying how they regret their decision because they didn't really know what they were voting for is infuriating. It's because of people like that that we're in this stupid situation.


The only people regretting things are the remainers that didn't vote because of their own arrogance. Such is left wing politics.


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

Lou Generation Era said:


> The election was postponed because people were actively engaged in a war and combat for their lives. It could not physically be held. We're going to have to agree to disagree on that being an undermining of democracy.


Of course it could be held, all you really need for an election is for people to go to a place and put a cross in a box and some people to count the votes. People did go outdoors in the war you know.



> In the Irish example, what ended up happening was that the EU became more lax with their restrictions on the second treaty and the results of the second referendum went the other way. But, I ask you this. What do you think the end game of the EU is? They want the sovereignty of the membership countries to be relinquished to them. Over time, those lax restrictions will be eroded and there will be other restrictions put in place. That is the MO if the EU. They rely on the participating countries to give up a piece of themselves to prop up the EU. They are not stupid and will get what they want in the end through bureaucracy and socialist/fascist nonsense. Britain got lucky that they never gave up their own currency and were able to walk away relatively unscathed. Just take a look at Greece. Unable to leave and driven into even more and more debt.
> 
> Any deal that promises you to give up your rights in exchange for security should be called into question.


Is that undermining democracy? If it's not then we can make a minor tweak to the EU and ask again, no bother, no undermining of democracy. If it is do you think it lead to fascism? If you do can you explain why? If you don't please withdraw your claim and apologise for it.

I don't think the EU has an end goal other than enhanced European cooperation. The key though is that it's a voluntary association as far as member states' governments are concerned.

The Greeks were and are free to leave if they want. If they don't think it's in their interest to do so they don't have to, but the people can vote for a government who'll withdraw them. That's democracy, if this wasn't the state of affairs they wouldn't be eligible to even be in the EU.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Beatles123 said:


> The only people regretting things are the remainers that didn't vote because of their own arrogance. Such is left wing politics.


There are a lot of people who have said that they regret voting for leave for several reasons, none of which are that they actually wanted to leave; to stick it to the current Government, as a protest vote against whatever affliction they thought they had, because they didn't think it would actually happen. That's not representative of everybody who voted to leave but enough people have said it to convince me that they aren't the only ones. Look at Boris Johnson, even he looks like he regrets it now that it has happened. I don't think your statement is fair at all tbh.


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

TheResurrection said:


> Of course it could be held, all you really need for an election is for people to go to a place and put a cross in a box and some people to count the votes. People did go outdoors in the war you know.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You have to be trolling me. All people had to do in this election was walk from their homes to the voting offices to vote. In the war, you could literally die on your way there and the election was postponed because Adolf's army was nearly done taking over Europe. It would have been an undermining of democracy to allow Hitler's (Socialist) army to take over for the sake of a vote that would have without a doubt been affected by Hitler's aggression toward the sovereign democracy. You have got it all backward. 

I think we completely disagree on the EU's end goal. My thoughts on that are that the EU is seeking to benefit the fat cats and pad their own pockets through socialist policy and turn Europe into a massive welfare state. By the end, the people will be too crippled by their bureaucracy to make any decisions on their own without the Brussels fat cats having some sort of say in it. The fact of the matter is that all the things they are promising don't require a centralised government and for countries to give up their sovereignty. It's sneaky socialist nonsense and Britain (thankfully) woke up.

The EU should also have excused Greece's debt and let them default and go. That will never happen because the EU benefits from countries that they helped cripple. It gives them an incentive to keep doing what they are doing. The EU breaks your leg and hands you a crutch. See? We helped you.

Anyway, we'll see what happens and no hard feelings from me toward you. As much as we disagree on the issue(s), I admire your belief in where you stand.


----------



## DoolieNoted (Dec 5, 2015)

So, certain people believe they are entitled to an infinite amount of chances until they get a result that satisfies their self-importance?

It's a referendum, not a neverendum..


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Starbuck said:


> There are a lot of people who have said that they regret voting for leave for several reasons, none of which are that they actually wanted to leave; to stick it to the current Government, as a protest vote against whatever affliction they thought they had, because they didn't think it would actually happen. That's not representative of everybody who voted to leave but enough people have said it to convince me that they aren't the only ones. Look at Boris Johnson, even he looks like he regrets it now that it has happened. I don't think your statement is fair at all tbh.


Boris WOULD because he's being tapped to lead. Farage is the one who matters. Him and Gove. Right now the UK WILL regret it because like anything it will take time. If the Torrys and the rest of the EU doesn't sabatoge this to shit your country will be better than it ever was in a few years.


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

Beatles123 said:


> Boris WOULD because he's being tapped to lead. Farage is the one who matters. Him and Gove. Right now the UK WILL regret it because like anything it will take time. If the Torrys and the rest of the EU doesn't sabatoge this to shit your country will be better than it ever was in a few years.


Lets keep the UKIP away from power please. Well the tories being tories will probs cause fuck ups depending on how things go. Curious to see what the plan is if there is one. There is no guarantee we will be better. There is no guarantee either way. We will not find out the impact for a few years


----------



## FriedTofu (Sep 29, 2014)

Beatles123 said:


> Boris WOULD because he's being tapped to lead. Farage is the one who matters. Him and Gove. Right now the UK WILL regret it because like anything it will take time. If the Torrys and the rest of the EU doesn't sabatoge this to shit your country will be better than it ever was in a few years.


Gove and Boris are in the same boat. Both were most likely hoping for a narrow Remain win to boost Boris's political capital as the heroic loser in the next election. Now they have to clean up the mess they helped started after Cameron stepping down. Hence the sombre mood after the results compared to Farage's independence day remark. Only Farage is the one that is totally behind the idea of a Brexit.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

^That. Whichever way you cut it, post-Brexit is going to be hard on the country, and whichever one of them end up leading will have to bear the brunt of that. The UK right now need the strongest leader probably that they've ever had, and whichever way you slice it that's not happening. Either Gove or Johnson take the reins and they aren't getting the conservatives re-elected short of some miracle, and the Labour party is in a shambles that I don't even want to get into right now. PM position is poison for any Conservative candidate's political career.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

guys, *BREXIT*.


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

Goku said:


> guys, *BREXIT*.


Stop it.


----------



## SPCDRI (Mar 15, 2010)

They spin Brexit like people that regretted, people longed for this shit openly for 20 years. Every has been jubilant and NIGEL PINTZ and trolling online and off who voted for Brexit.

Hurry up and trigger article 50 already.


----------



## markoutsmarkout (Dec 30, 2014)

Alex Jones basically cutting wrestling promos against the globalists

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbXIEhWEh4o


----------



## Rowdy Yates (Nov 24, 2014)

TheResurrection said:


> Cancelling an election is undermining democracy, it is ridiculous to say that it isn't. It was fully justified of course because it was in the national interest.
> 
> What do you have to say to the Ireland example?
> 
> ...


:eyeroll
Its done and dusted pal. Move on and enjoy the fruits of a more prosperous U.K :smile2:


----------



## Doc (Oct 4, 2010)

Resurrection, keep telling yourself it was only an advisory vote as many times as you like.

If the government doesn't follow through it then believe me I truly believe we would be on the brink of a civil war which would explode with the smallest of triggers.


----------



## FriedTofu (Sep 29, 2014)

Doc said:


> Resurrection, keep telling yourself it was only an advisory vote as many times as you like.
> 
> If the government doesn't follow through it then believe me I truly believe we would be on the brink of a civil war which would explode with the smallest of triggers.


He isn't wrong. The referendum is not legally binding. But nobody in government would be stupid to blatantly ignore the vote as it will lead to civil unrest.


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

Lou Generation Era said:


> You have to be trolling me. All people had to do in this election was walk from their homes to the voting offices to vote. In the war, you could literally die on your way there and the election was postponed because Adolf's army was nearly done taking over Europe. It would have been an undermining of democracy to allow Hitler's (Socialist) army to take over for the sake of a vote that would have without a doubt been affected by Hitler's aggression toward the sovereign democracy. You have got it all backward.
> 
> I think we completely disagree on the EU's end goal. My thoughts on that are that the EU is seeking to benefit the fat cats and pad their own pockets through socialist policy and turn Europe into a massive welfare state. By the end, the people will be too crippled by their bureaucracy to make any decisions on their own without the Brussels fat cats having some sort of say in it. The fact of the matter is that all the things they are promising don't require a centralised government and for countries to give up their sovereignty. It's sneaky socialist nonsense and Britain (thankfully) woke up.
> 
> ...


No, I'm not trolling you, Britain totally suspended democracy during the war and it did not lead to fascism. People might have wanted to negotiate a peace, they might have wanted a new leader who would win the war quicker, they might have wanted to surrender, they weren't given the choice. Now that's fine, it's right, it was in the national interest, but what you describe as undermining democracy here would also be in the national interest. Parliament has every right to do it and if people don't like it they can vote them out at the next election for a Brexit Parliament.

Who is is that has this goal in your mind? The EU is made up of many many people all with different visions of what they want Europe to become, I don't think there's any chairman at the top of it guiding it into a certain direction.

The thing about sovereignty is that as long as they don't take away member states' right to leave they're not really taking away any sovereignty and it's not really a super state, it's just a voluntary association. Somewhere like the United States where member states can't secede is a super state, you could argue the UK is since constituent countries need to get permission from the central parliament to vote to leave, but I don't see anything like that ever coming from Brussels.

My understanding of the Greek debt crisis is that it's German money that they'd borrowed and the German people didn't want to forgive the debt. This is pretty basic international relations, if you're a weak country who has a lot of debt and need to borrow money from bigger countries the bigger countries can impose conditions with it. That's true whether the EU exists or doesn't exist, in this case the EU was simply used to facilitate it. In fact their membership of the EU would have made it a lot easier on them because Germany has an interest in preventing an exodus from Greece to richer countries.

I don't think it was the EU that broke their leg, I think it was Greece by taking on more debt than they could afford.



Gainn_Damage said:


> So, certain people believe they are entitled to an infinite amount of chances until they get a result that satisfies their self-importance?
> 
> It's a referendum, not a neverendum..


I believe the country should do what's in its interest. Whether that's a second referendum, a third referendum, no referendum, a general election, an EU renegotiation, whatever. 



Top Shelf said:


> :eyeroll
> Its done and dusted pal. Move on and enjoy the fruits of a more prosperous U.K :smile2:


Oh, is it, I must have missed this. I can't believe it's already done and dusted and it wasn't even in the news. 

Was freedom of movement retained? What about access to the single market? Is £350m a week extra going to be spend on the NHS? Is the shortfall in regional funding to areas like Cornwall going to be made up for somehow? What about Scotland, how did we get around their veto? Was the Scotland act changed against the will of the Scottish people, parliament and government?



Doc said:


> Resurrection, keep telling yourself it was only an advisory vote as many times as you like.
> 
> If the government doesn't follow through it then believe me I truly believe we would be on the brink of a civil war which would explode with the smallest of triggers.


I don't doubt your sincerity.



FriedTofu said:


> He isn't wrong. The referendum is not legally binding. But nobody in government would be stupid to blatantly ignore the vote as it will lead to civil unrest.


Yes, blatantly ignoring the referendum would be catastrophic, of course it would, but it won't be blatant. 

What happens if, in the intervening period between now and Article 50 being activated, polls start consistently showing that 4% or more of people who voted Leave now wish they had voted for Remain and over 50% now want to Remain. Can this really be claimed as a democratic mandate to make such a dramatic and near irreversible change when the lead for Leave has evaporated as quickly as it arose? Especially when it's required to take away Scotland's rights against their will to do it? Would it be seen as undemocratic to have a second referendum in that context? I don't think it would.

A referendum that carries no legal weight with a two year waiting period, a nightmare tangle to unpick and a very close result leaves an awful lot of room to manoeuvre.


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

TheResurrection said:


> No, I'm not trolling you, Britain totally suspended democracy during the war and it did not lead to fascism. People might have wanted to negotiate a peace, they might have wanted a new leader who would win the war quicker, they might have wanted to surrender, they weren't given the choice. Now that's fine, it's right, it was in the national interest, but what you describe as undermining democracy here would also be in the national interest. Parliament has every right to do it and if people don't like it they can vote them out at the next election for a Brexit Parliament.


Postponing an election with the wishes of the people due to impending genocide is not undermining democracy. If they held an election and then didn't get the desired outcome from the voters and decided to use the impending genocide as an excuse would certainly be, though.



> Who is is that has this goal in your mind? The EU is made up of many many people all with different visions of what they want Europe to become, I don't think there's any chairman at the top of it guiding it into a certain direction.


The bureaucrats that over regulate the laws of the EU and put all sorts of ridiculous conditions on life.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...-barmy-decisions-rules-regulations-Britain-EU



> The thing about sovereignty is that as long as they don't take away member states' right to leave they're not really taking away any sovereignty and it's not really a super state, it's just a voluntary association. Somewhere like the United States where member states can't secede is a super state, you could argue the UK is since constituent countries need to get permission from the central parliament to vote to leave, but I don't see anything like that ever coming from Brussels.


Tomato, tomahto, my dear Watson. A pig with makeup is still a pig. The EU has achieved through legal, nonviolent means what Hitler himself could only dream of. How easily will they let go, though? Only time will tell.



> My understanding of the Greek debt crisis is that it's German money that they'd borrowed and the German people didn't want to forgive the debt. This is pretty basic international relations, if you're a weak country who has a lot of debt and need to borrow money from bigger countries the bigger countries can impose conditions with it. That's true whether the EU exists or doesn't exist, in this case the EU was simply used to facilitate it. In fact their membership of the EU would have made it a lot easier on them because Germany has an interest in preventing an exodus from Greece to richer countries.
> 
> 
> I don't think it was the EU that broke their leg, I think it was Greece by taking on more debt than they could afford.


Germany did not help them restructure their debt and kept lending them money knowing full well that they would never be able to pay it back without reform. The logical thing to do is to forgive their debt and allow them to leave and rebuild. The policy did not work and they are helping prop up a broken system. But this is a two way street, Greece now has to beg for handouts and Germany (and the EU) gets to look useful in the process.

Sit back and enjoy the fireworks, my friend.


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

Lou Generation Era said:


> Postponing an election with the wishes of the people due to impending genocide is not undermining democracy. If they held an election and then didn't get the desired outcome from the voters and decided to use the impending genocide as an excuse would certainly be, though.


Suspending democracy is undermining it, you know that full well. I think you need to separate between undermining democracy and whether or not it's for a good reason. Obviously if you undermine democracy to bring in a fascist regime it's a bad thing, but that doesn't mean that undermining democracy always leads to fascism, it quite obviously doesn't, as the cancelled UK election and Irish revote prove.



> The bureaucrats that over regulate the laws of the EU and put all sorts of ridiculous conditions on life.
> 
> http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...-barmy-decisions-rules-regulations-Britain-EU


Most of those were never even implemented and some of them are good ideas. Who would object to washing up gloves needing to be able to handle detergent or oven gloves being required to tolerate high temperatures?



> Tomato, tomahto, my dear Watson. A pig with makeup is still a pig. The EU has achieved through legal, nonviolent means what Hitler himself could only dream of. How easily will they let go, though? Only time will tell.


I don't know about you but I consider Hitler to be a bad guy mainly because of the genocide and all the other violence he did. If he operated like the EU I think he'd be seen now as a pretty popular historical figure (albeit a tragic dreamer who was smashed by Stalin).



> Germany did not help them restructure their debt and kept lending them money knowing full well that they would never be able to pay it back without reform. The logical thing to do is to forgive their debt and allow them to leave and rebuild. The policy did not work and they are helping prop up a broken system. But this is a two way street, Greece now has to beg for handouts and Germany (and the EU) gets to look useful in the process.
> 
> Sit back and enjoy the fireworks, my friend.


Why should Germany give them money on terms the democratically elected German government doesn't like? This isn't a problem with the EU that you have, it's a problem with the concept of Sovereign debt and inequality in international relations. If they thought they would be better off outside the EU they could be withdrawn.


----------



## Rowdy Yates (Nov 24, 2014)

TheResurrection said:


> Oh, is it, I must have missed this. I can't believe it's already done and dusted and it wasn't even in the news.
> 
> Was freedom of movement retained? What about access to the single market? Is £350m a week extra going to be spend on the NHS? Is the shortfall in regional funding to areas like Cornwall going to be made up for somehow? What about Scotland, how did we get around their veto? Was the Scotland act changed against the will of the Scottish people, parliament and government?


Scotland can follow that idiot Sturgeon and go and claim there independence. Lets be realistic here, its not like we will struggle without them. As much as i like the country and people they wont really be missed

Not for one second did i think voting leave would immediately change things. The £350m a week was highly exaggerated and like Scotland i could not give a toss about places like Cornwall .I live about 8 mile from Manchester and my area has not had a penny funding in years so it makes no odds to me. The north/south divide is very real. I believe that long term leaving is the better option and time will prove that

The reaction of BBC loving lefties like yourself crying like little girls because you have not got the outcome you wanted is keeping me more than content atm. You cant realistically think for 1 second that article 50 of the lisbon treaty wont be activated and there will be a re vote. Even though the referendum is not legally binding no MP in there rite mind would have the balls or lack of common sense to ignore what the majority of the voting electorate have chosen and not go through with it. There would be utter chaos and rebellion from Carlisle to Dover


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Globalism is not your friend.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/27/foreign-chief-europe-needs-eu-army

See, Britbros? You got out just in time.


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*

@BehindYou @draykorinee @kusksu

have you lot been eating your daily bowl of brexit today?


----------



## just1988 (Jun 15, 2009)

*I can see I've missed some heavy debate in the days where my account kicked me out...

Personally I leaned towards stay but I honestly don't think much will change in the long term. Put us 5 years in the future with a remain vote and 5 years in the future with a leave vote and we're pretty much in the same place. The only downside to the leave vote is that it seems to have justified some racist/xenephobic thoughts in SOME people. I've noticed more personally but then again, this could just be down to the fact that I'm aware of the vote so maybe I'm picking it out easier. Who knows?

Let's just love each other, yeah?*


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

TheResurrection said:


> What about Scotland, how did we get around their veto?


LOL the sour grapes are real! The Scottish parliament doesn't have veto power, even Alex Salmond came out and said it was a load of nonsense. Nicola sturgeon went all the way to Brussels the other day just to be told that Scotland must leave with the rest of the UK, so sorry to kill your final hope of remaining in the EU, now go wash all that EU flag face paint off and move on with your life because even George Osborne has moved on.


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

Top Shelf said:


> Scotland can follow that idiot Sturgeon and go and claim there independence. Lets be realistic here, its not like we will struggle without them. As much as i like the country and people they wont really be missed



It doesn't work that way. You can't just fucking expel countries because they've exercised a power you've given them and you don't like it.



> Not for one second did i think voting leave would immediately change things. The £350m a week was highly exaggerated and like Scotland i could not give a toss about places like Cornwall .I live about 8 mile from Manchester and my area has not had a penny funding in years so it makes no odds to me. The north/south divide is very real. I believe that long term leaving is the better option and time will prove that
> 
> The reaction of BBC loving lefties like yourself crying like little girls because you have not got the outcome you wanted is keeping me more than content atm. You cant realistically think for 1 second that article 50 of the lisbon treaty wont be activated and there will be a re vote. Even though the referendum is not legally binding no MP in there rite mind would have the balls or lack of common sense to ignore what the majority of the voting electorate have chosen and not go through with it. There would be utter chaos and rebellion from Carlisle to Dover


I don't give a toss about Cornwall either, but these are questions that need to be answered. There are 500,000 assholes living there who expect my tax money to make up the drop despite all that money already being committed elsewhere. Manchester has received a tremendous amount of funding from the European Union.

The European Union is the body that does most to address the north south divide due its regional policy.

There are at least 54 MPs who will definitely vote against Brexit, it's current Liberal Democrat policy to block Brexit so that's another 8. It was only 52% who voted for Brexit, there's not that much difference between pissing them off and pissing off the 48%. We don't know when the next election is going to be but whenever it happens the result of the referendum will effectively be null and void because it took place in the previous parliament and a new mandate has been given.

In the event that we do leave there are still huge questions - is it a Norway style deal where we have Freedom of Movement? What are the membership fees? What rules do we have to obey? A Norway style deal is all of the negatives of the European Union with most of the positives but without having a say in the running of it. Do we get a referendum on that too? 

If we activate article 50 there is still everything to play for - freedom of movement, trade deals, access to the single market, laws, membership fees, education, refugee quotas, work permits, refugees etc. The EU provides the answer to dozens of questions, take it away and all those questions still need answering. There is still everything to play for and forever to play it in.



Beatles123 said:


> Globalism is not your friend.


Speak for yourself, I earn a good salary from a multinational company and buy shitloads of consumer goods cheaply from foreign countries.



Beatles123 said:


> http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/27/foreign-chief-europe-needs-eu-army
> 
> See, Britbros? You got out just in time.


Yeah, because it's a great idea to piss off a Union just as it moves towards getting a massive army. Either the EU is a benevolent body that we have no need to worry about or we need to be starting a military build up and setting up fortifications at dover.


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

Beatles123 said:


> http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/27/foreign-chief-europe-needs-eu-army
> 
> See, Britbros? You got out just in time.


Nigel Farage has been talking about that for years, they tried to wait until the referendum was over before actually trying to implementing it, the sneaky europhiles


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

TheResurrection said:


> It doesn't work that way. You can't just fucking expel countries because they've exercised a power you've given them and you don't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


oh nice 60 mp's, wow that changes EVERYTHING! Thanks for letting me know that the liberal democrats still exist by the way, I thought they packed their bags after the last election.


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

NeverDrewADime said:


> LOL the sour grapes are real! The Scottish parliament doesn't have veto power, even Alex Salmond came out and said it was a load of nonsense. Nicola sturgeon went all the way to Brussels the other day just to be told that Scotland must leave with the rest of the UK, so sorry to kill your final hope of remaining in the EU, now go wash all that EU flag face paint off and move on with your life because even George Osborne has moved on.


I agree with Salmond that veto is the wrong word, but they can block it and in order to override the British government must change the Scotland act against the wishes of the Scottish people, the Scottish government, every Scottish MP in Westminster and the Scottish Parliament. Will they do that? I don't know.



NeverDrewADime said:


> oh nice 60 mp's, wow that changes EVERYTHING! Thanks for letting me know that the liberal democrats still exist by the way, I thought they packed their bags after the last election.


That was in response to a claim that no MP will go against it. Many will.


----------



## famu720 (Jun 18, 2016)

Good to see the British find a spine and take back their soverignity.


----------



## Rowdy Yates (Nov 24, 2014)

TheResurrection said:


> It doesn't work that way. You can't just fucking expel countries because they've exercised a power you've given them and you don't like it.


It is The Scottish who want out. Who said anything about expelling them?. They think the grass is greener on the other side, Let them find out for themselves





> There are at least 54 MPs who will definitely vote against Brexit,


Not getting this are you.There is nothing left to vote for. The public have spoken and we want out. A few whining back benchers is not going to change that


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

TheResurrection said:


> I agree with Salmond that veto is the wrong word, but they can block it and in order to override the British government must change the Scotland act against the wishes of the Scottish people, the Scottish government, every Scottish MP in Westminster and the Scottish Parliament. Will they do that? I don't know.
> 
> 
> 
> That was in response to a claim that no MP will go against it. Many will.


Scottish people don't exist, they haven't existed for 300 years. We had our chance to make Scotland a country again and we voted against it. We're British and the Scottish parliament is only there to keep the nationalist idiots happy with their false sense of power.

The government has been given a clear instruction from the people to leave the European Union and it will happen. The SNP and Lib dems are a tiny minority of the seats available, the serious parties will respect democracy.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

TheResurrection said:


> It doesn't work that way. You can't just fucking expel countries because they've exercised a power you've given them and you don't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What it shows, mang, is that the EU are full of globalist shills that were bending you over and making you call them daddy for years, and now that you've dared to defy their tyranical order they want to militarize so that other countries don't get any bright ideas.

The move exposes THEM, not you. You guys saw a dumpster fire and abandoned ship. Your ecconomy will rebound and you will be okay. This was the moment the UK uncucked itself and the EU is massively butthurt.


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

Europhiles are hilarious, they're acting like they're being dragged off to their death.

euuuuuuurope!!!!

EUUUUUUUUUUROPE!!

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

NeverDrewADime said:


> Europhiles are hilarious, they're acting like they're being dragged off to their death.
> 
> euuuuuuurope!!!!
> 
> ...


B-B-BUT YOU UK GUYS CAN'T SURVIVE ON YOUR OWN!!!! YOU ONLY DID IT FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS PRIOR TO 1973!!! :surprise:


----------



## Draykorinee (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Brexit or Remain*



NeverDrewADime said:


> @BehindYou @draykorinee @kusksu
> 
> have you lot been eating your daily bowl of brexit today?


Yes, not much a person can do when the decision has already been made.

I accept the decision and don't take any joy in the fact that the leave campaign have already reneged on about 50% of what they said.

IF you're looking for some kind of rage induced post about injustice and how the referendum should be reheld look elsewhere. Shit happens.


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

Beatles123 said:


> B-B-BUT YOU UK GUYS CAN'T SURVIVE ON YOUR OWN!!!! YOU ONLY DID IT FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS PRIOR TO 1973!!! :surprise:


and the vast majority of the leave voters were people that actually have experience of life before the EU


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

Top Shelf said:


> It is The Scottish who want out. Who said anything about expelling them?. They think the grass is greener on the other side, Let them find out for themselves
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The Scottish want in, they voted as such less than two years ago. Where is your respect for democracy? It's a referendum nor a neverendum.

Are you saying a second referendum is permissible if circumstances change?

Parliament needs to vote but before that it needs to be decided what they're voting on. This should have been sorted well before the referendum so people could compare the two situations fairly, the Scots had a 700 page white paper prepared before their referendum.



Beatles123 said:


> What it shows, mang, is that the EU are full of globalist shills that were bending you over and making you call them daddy for years, and now that you've dared to defy their tyranical order they want to militarize so that other countries don't get any bright ideas.
> 
> The move exposes THEM, not you. You guys saw a dumpster fire and abandoned ship. Your ecconomy will rebound and you will be okay. This was the moment the UK uncucked itself and the EU is massively butthurt.


Globalisation is amazing, you talk about it like it's a bad thing. If the EU revoke article 50 then I'll be worried about their military, but not before.


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

TheResurrection said:


> Globalisation is amazing


said no one, except communists that want everyone to be equally poor.


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

NeverDrewADime said:


> said no one, except communists that want everyone to be equally poor.


That is the socialist agenda. Make everyone lose so a few people don't get their feelings hurt.


----------



## Slicked (Jun 18, 2016)

Mixed feelings on this, but I feel Europe should focus on this refugee crisis and expel dangerous individuals which will change Europes Identity and Government which should not be tolerated at all.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

_:woo The Empire Strikes Back :woo_​
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683739/EU-referendum-German-French-European-superstate-Brexit



> European SUPERSTATE to be unveiled: EU nations 'to be morphed into one' post-Brexit
> 
> EUROPEAN political chiefs are to take advantage of Brexit by unveiling their long-held plan to morph the continent’s countries into one GIANT SUPERSTATE, it has emerged today.
> 
> ...


----------



## FriedTofu (Sep 29, 2014)

[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]


NeverDrewADime said:


> said no one, except communists that want everyone to be equally poor.


Globalisation made my country from third world to first world within 2 generations.


----------



## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

When I was a kid the idea of ending all borders and creating a united supernation was considered a utopian dream

I'm still for it

The nations that want to break away are always the ones with luxury and stability, as long as NATO exists I am fine with this


----------



## virus21 (Sep 22, 2009)

DesolationRow said:


> _:woo The Empire Strikes Back :woo_​
> http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683739/EU-referendum-German-French-European-superstate-Brexit


Well I see nothing wrong with this. Nope, nothing unbelievable bad going to happen because of this, no sir


----------



## Rick Sanchez (Dec 30, 2012)

Turns out Britain is just as racist as America. Who knew.


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

Judy Garland's Biggest Fan said:


> Turns out Britain is just as racist as America. Who knew.


Your view on this matter is the equivalent of complaining about the cost of water wasted to put out a blaze.


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

DesolationRow said:


> _
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow if this is true thank fuck we did get out.


----------



## V. Skybox (Jun 24, 2014)

Roy Mustang said:


> Wow if this is true thank fuck we did get out.


It's the Express. They're a hate rag owned by a porn baron who would print any old shite if it supported their bigoted UKIP supporting, Brexit advocating ideology. Needless to say, it's 99.9% completely false.


----------



## KC Armstrong (Jun 19, 2013)

Our German defense minister Von der Leyen openly talked about wanting to create the "United States of Europe" 4 or 5 years ago, so who knows? Maybe there is something to it...


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

@DesolationRow @CJ; @CamillePunk @MissSally; @birthday_massacre

Hello, my friends!  You may (or may not :lol ) have noticed that I have been absent from this thread for a few days. This is because of the issues currently happening with the site which essentially ended up locking my account. But now thanks to the BASED GOD ADMINS of this site I've got my account back....just in case anyone was worried :lol (no...? nobody...? FINE.  ).

There are a tonne of news I could post to counter act the doom and gloom of the biased post-brexit media (yes they are biased I don't care what anyone says, all media is biased to a certain degree including media that's in favour of Brexit) but I want to address a bigger issue and that is the reaction to the vote from a certain shall we say demographic and politically minded group.

There has been many a post made on social media from people around my age saying how upset, disappointed and angry they are at the result. I am too but for completely different reasons. I've always thought that these type of democratic processes brings out the worst in some people and I have yet again been proven completely right. If this referendum has shown anything it's the true colours of the left in British politics.

These are the same people who claim to believe in *Parliamentary Democracy*, who claim to believe in the will of the people in this nation. Yet once a result does not go their way, once they believe "the wrong decision" has been made they show that in fact they are without a doubt *closet authoritarians.* Calls for a Second Referendum...calls for the Brexit decision to be overturned by the government...

So let me get this straight (I'm not aiming this at anyone here as clarification), you want the decision of *52% of the electorate * to be completely ruled out simply because you feel it's the wrong decision?! I'm starting to believe that you people don't actually believe in the principles you say you do. Here's a newsflash for you: in a democracy it's majority rule (or tyranny of the majority depending on your views), you don't always get what you want, sometimes "the wrong decision" is made. You have to live with the consequences and stop being such babies about the issue.

There has been a lot of talk about demographic, how 18-24 year olds voted 75% for Remain whilst around 60% of those who are over 50 voted Leave. Yet only 36% of the youngest demographic actually voted in the EU Referendum. This tells me one thing: some of those who are complaining right now about the result never actually voted. Well hell if the other 73% voted or even an extra 30% voted in the referendum around my age and younger we may not be talking about Brexit but about our future in the EU. And people around my age wonder why the older generation mock us *"Millennials"*, it's because of instances like this. It makes me ashamed of my generation and how some of them act. Absolute entitled brats, the lot of them.

And then there is the hate...yes, there has been some absolutely inexcusable actions from people after Brexit who have racially abused people who are not British. I cannot deny that and I absolutely condemn those people. But by the same token, the left have shown just how much hatred they have for anyone who does not fall in line with their viewpoints. Hate against the old, hate against the working class (who they say they represent the views of? :lmao), hate against "uninformed voters"...the list goes on. These people have attacked segments of the population for days now since after the referendum. The same people who claim they are for tolerance and respect, how is attacking the elderly for making a democratic decision in any way a show of respect and tolerance? It is fundamentally the opposite.

The worst is the cry of racism...oh how I am sick of people brushing Brexit voters with the same brush! Are there people who voted purely on the basis of race? Yes. Are there people who voted purely on the issue of immigration? Of course. But then these people ignore the fact for example that all of my foreign co-workers, the majority of whom are from Sri Lanka voted to* LEAVE THE EU.* These aren't former BNP members, they aren't EDL activists....they aren't even UKIP supporters...hell they aren't even British Nationals! These are honest, hard working, decent people who came through to the UK to work and pay their taxes who happen to believe our future in the long run is better off outside the EU. They ignore the fact that an Israeli immigrant was interviewed literally about a 20 minute drive away from where I live in Romford who voted to Leave the European Union. They ignore the fact that *three Italian guys who I consider my friends* who I went to a PROGRESS Wrestling event with yesterday who are going to be effected in the long term by Brexit all said that if the vote was given in Italy they would all vote *OUT* of the EU. The main reason funnily enough? *"The Euro is fucking with our economy, we want our currency back."* Nothing to do with race or immigration.

They hate to admit it but for many people it's more than just race or immigration, it's about the undermining of National Sovereignty, it's about taking nation states back, about having the ability to govern yourself and your own people. About having *ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES* being the only people who can write legislation and change law. About making our own trade deals with countries outside the EU which we would not be able to do as part of the European Superstate Project. It is about a many great deal of things which immigration happens to be one of the issues.

I also want to address the issue of so called "uninformed voters". Newsflash: both sides had uninformed voters. Partly due to them not being bothered to actually read into the issues and partly if I'm being honest both sides not putting forward to the case of either side very well (except a couple from the Leave side). There was an instance where in a political group I am part of, there was a guy who happened to be the only person who was voting Leave in his friendship group. When he asked his friends if they had read anything about the EU as a political body including the EU Convention of Human Rights, they all said they didn't. Yet when the leave vote was casted, they claimed those who voted in favour of Brexit were "uninformed". Talk about hypocrisy! This isn't to say that there are uninformed voters for Brexit, it's to show there will always be uninformed voters whatever you vote.

Thankfully when talking about the left, I'm mostly talking about normal people and not politicians. Whilst a few of the Labour Party have indeed called for a Second Referendum or the result to be overturned we've already had Jeremy Corbyn come out and say that the will of the electorate had to be respected. Whilst I believe in many ways Corbyn's views are horrific I respect that he has class and decency to admit defeat. David Cameron who is not a left wing politican but campaigned for Remain has also come out saying there won't be a Second Referendum. I'm pleased he at least kept his word on this issue...

The same can't be said for the horrible Liberal Democrats whose leader Tim Farron came out saying that if they were elected (which won't happen) that they would *overturn the result immediately.* The same party who under Nick Clegg sold out some of it's key promises in 2010 for a little bit of power in a Coalition government has just sold itself out YET AGAIN in order to try and be relevant. The statement that was made was anything but "liberal" or "democractic". The fact they are prepared to sell out on the key principles of the party shows what horrible people they truly are. But then the Lib Dems never had principles to begin with. At least the Tory and Labour leadership respect the will of the electorate...

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ledge-british-return-eu-next-general-election

Overall I can't say enough how eye opening it's been to see the reaction from the left wing of the Remain Campaign. I always knew in the event of a Leave vote people would be upset and angry. Of course they have every right to be if they disagree. But the open authoritarianism they have shown, the hate they have shown for the Elderly, the working class, the "uninformed", even against white people...has really put into perspective just how toxic some of the left wing really are and can be. Not only that but how hypocritical they can be against their own so called principles.

Of course there has been idiots on both sides, I can't stress enough again how much I condemn those who are racially attacking non-British Citizens both verbally and physically. That deserves just as much calling out as the left and the people round my age. I must also address the fact that Nigel Farage himself said that in the event of a close vote to Remain that there should be a second referendum...something which I also disagree with. This was an important result that deserves a definite answer. As Daniel Hannan put it in an interview with Owen Jones: *"This is a once in a lifetime vote, and should the British People vote to Remain I will have to concede I have lost the argument".* 

The Remain campaign and it's supporters have lost the argument, it's time to move forward together and build a Britain without the European Union.


----------



## FatherJackHackett (Apr 11, 2016)

Farage cutting an amazing heel promo in the European Parliament :trips5


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

I didn't really know who this Farage guy is until today, but my god he is retarded. He wants to leave EU, but retain the benefits that they had while in the EU? What a dumbfuck. He speaks like a clueless idiot. Just proves that not everything said with British accent sounds smart.


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

L-DOPA said:


> @DesolationRow @CJ; @CamillePunk @MissSally; @birthday_massacre
> 
> Hello, my friends!  You may (or may not :lol ) have noticed that I have been absent from this thread for a few days. This is because of the issues currently happening with the site which essentially ended up locking my account. But now thanks to the BASED GOD ADMINS of this site I've got my account back....just in case anyone was worried :lol (no...? nobody...? FINE.  ).
> 
> ...


Good post! I been avoiding this site well mostly because I been playing Pocket Mortys but it seems any vote on immigration or a view that isn't 100% open borders and free migration gets you called racist. It's rather sad that the Leftists for the most part have become droolies who just hurl insults around without any real proof or thought behind them. They claim the old people don't care about the youth but maybe that's why those old people voted to exit, is for their children. Not everything is going to be easy but giving up any freedom in the name of "security" and cheap goods brought to you by an unsustainable system isn't worth it long term. Every people should want to preserve their heritage and have a say with how their country is run. There's nothing wrong with only accepting a certain number of people into your area. As we know, not all people are worth much. As long as UK doesn't go complete isolationist it should be fine.

The idea of a world wide utopia sounds lovely but that's not the world we live in. The sooner these people face that reality the better. The problem is with these youngsters is they don't care, as long as it doesn't affect them right away they don't mind, most won't have children and their self destructive appetites suit their need to see everything go their way. This mentality is sure to ruin governments in the long term if it keeps up, any vote that people in power don't like, will be overturned. I'm sure this sounds great to some, until they're the ones being targeted.


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

FatherJackHackett said:


> Farage cutting an amazing heel promo in the European Parliament :trips5


:banderas This man is a fucking god.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

gotta admit, that's a pretty badass speech.


----------



## 4everEyebrowRaisin (Feb 25, 2012)

FatherJackHackett said:


> Farage cutting an amazing heel promo in the European Parliament :trips5


A _heel_ promo? He's the biggest babyface going right now, brother!


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

Peter Schiff and Stefan Molyneux discuss the economic fallout of Brexit:


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

FriedTofu said:


> [YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]
> 
> Globalisation made my country from third world to first world within 2 generations.


What is your country?


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

FatherJackHackett said:


> Farage cutting an amazing heel promo in the European Parliament :trips5


ohhhhh mennnnnnn

OHHHHHHHH MENNN

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH MENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

Judy Garland's Biggest Fan said:


> Turns out Britain is just as racist as America. Who knew.


Look everyone, its a limp wristed SJW student with the obligatory "everyone's racist!" post


----------



## Rick Sanchez (Dec 30, 2012)

NeverDrewADime said:


> Look everyone, its a limp wristed SJW student with the obligatory "everyone's racist!" post


Do your research, there are several stories of racist harrassment over the past week. Sorry I hurt your feelings though. I forgot how sensitive some of you people are.


----------



## wsm1111 (Jun 28, 2016)

FatherJackHackett said:


> Farage cutting an amazing heel promo in the European Parliament :trips5


Vince needs to sign this guy up for WrestleMania ASAP. Even the cadence of his speech is dead on to MR MCMAHON.


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

L-DOPA said:


> Hello, my friends!  You may (or may not :lol ) have noticed that I have been absent from this thread for a few days. This is because of the issues currently happening with the site which essentially ended up locking my account. But now thanks to the BASED GOD ADMINS of this site I've got my account back....just in case anyone was worried :lol (no...? nobody...? FINE.  ).
> 
> There are a tonne of news I could post to counter act the doom and gloom of the biased post-brexit media (yes they are biased I don't care what anyone says, all media is biased to a certain degree including media that's in favour of Brexit) but I want to address a bigger issue and that is the reaction to the vote from a certain shall we say demographic and politically minded group.
> 
> ...


Can you explain what exactly would be so undemocratic about a second vote which overturns the first? Shouldn't the people have the right to change their minds?

I don't know why you're having a go at the Liberal Democrats either. There is nothing undemocratic about putting something in your manifesto that is currently unpopular, if you're right and people are so against it they won't stand a chance of getting any power. If there are a lot of people who think actually the referendum result might have been a mistake they can express that view by supporting the Liberal Democrats and we can reconsider.



> The Remain campaign and it's supporters have lost the argument, it's time to move forward together and build a Britain without the European Union.


You mean the future without the European Union been sorted already? We were taken into a vote between two options, with one option being completely unknown and based on crazy promises? Why the fuck hasn't it been sorted already, why isn't there a plan in place?

Edited to add:



> There was an instance where in a political group I am part of, there was a guy who happened to be the only person who was voting Leave in his friendship group. When he asked his friends if they had read anything about the EU as a political body including the EU Convention of Human Rights, they all said they didn't.


That's probably because there is no EU Convention of Human Rights. The European Convention on Human Rights is an entirely separate treaty which predates the European Union and has separate signatories. If you do not know this you have no business commenting on how informed others are. It sounds like this friendship group is a lot better informed than you.


----------



## FatherJackHackett (Apr 11, 2016)

4everEyebrowRaisin said:


> A _heel_ promo? He's the biggest babyface going right now, brother!


That may be so my friend, but he was most definitely the top heel in that building, with Marine Le Pen on the midcard :lol


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

Thought this was funny and relevant. :lol


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

Judy Garland's Biggest Fan said:


> Do your research, there are several stories of racist harrassment over the past week. Sorry I hurt your feelings though. I forgot how sensitive some of you people are.


Stories? You do know that everyone has a HD camera on their phone, right? All these stories of racism in public, yet nobody records any of it? More SJW fake racism claims


----------



## Rick Sanchez (Dec 30, 2012)

NeverDrewADime said:


> Stories? You do know that everyone has a HD camera on their phone, right? All these stories of racism in public, yet nobody records any of it? More SJW fake racism claims


I'm not a SJW. Quick using retarded phrases you learned on the internet. You clearly don't know what the hell it even means.


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

TheResurrection said:


> Can you explain what exactly would be so undemocratic about a second vote which overturns the first? Shouldn't the people have the right to change their minds?


History with the EU has shown us that a second referendum would not be about giving people a chance to "change their minds" as such it would be about forcing through the "right result." This has happened in the past when France and The Netherlands in a referendum rejected the Lisbon Treaty and yet were forced to vote on the issue again because the EU refused to accept the result.

Do not think in light of a vocal minority who have loudly protested the result that pro-EU politicians or even the EU themselves (although I will give them credit that they have accepted the result for now and want to address it quickly) force through another referendum when it's literally just been days since the Brexit vote was casted.

In any event, Cameron and others stated that if we come out then that is the final result. I have already stated I feel Farage was wrong to suggest a 2nd referendum in the case of a Remain vote too. The last referendum on anything related to the EU was in 1975 and that was before the EU really started becoming a political union.

Should the EU itself drastically change in future much like it did after 1975 and the people demand a referendum then of course that is a different story because we would be dealing with a whole new arrangement. I do not agree a vote should be forced through whilst the EU is still as it is simply because some people can't accept the current result. It is going against the 52% who voted us out.





TheResurrection said:


> I don't know why you're having a go at the Liberal Democrats either. There is nothing undemocratic about putting something in your manifesto that is currently unpopular, if you're right and people are so against it they won't stand a chance of getting any power. If there are a lot of people who think actually the referendum result might have been a mistake they can express that view by supporting the Liberal Democrats and we can reconsider.


Regardless they won't be getting any power but that is besides the point. The point is they are a bandwagon party with no principles whatsoever. Who jump on any ship they think is going to win voters over to them to secure any sort of relevancy. If you have no issue with that then so be it. We will agree to disagree but we know how trustworthy they are as far as positions and policy thanks to their time in the Coalition government.





TheResurrection said:


> You mean the future without the European Union been sorted already? We were taken into a vote between two options, with one option being completely unknown and based on crazy promises? Why the fuck hasn't it been sorted already, why isn't there a plan in place?


The fact that we will be having a future outside the EU has been decided by the British Electorate. You know what I mean't so don't play semantics with me. It's been literally days since the vote and yes it's clear Cameron didn't plan in the event of leaving...because guess what? He didn't think he would lose. Funny that.

We will see what happens when we have a new PM and Article 50. is launched. 





TheResurrection said:


> That's probably because there is no EU Convention of Human Rights. The European Convention on Human Rights is an entirely separate treaty which predates the European Union and has separate signatories. If you do not know this you have no business commenting on how informed others are. It sounds like this friendship group is a lot better informed than you.


I did of course know this but I guess I have to explain everything? The reason why this question was asked was in fact because of the reason you have just stated. Many of the Remain supporters have argued and feared that an exit from the EU would threaten the Human Rights that were secured in Europe in 1950. I do not believe I claimed that the EU and The European Convention of Human Rights were completely entwined with each other and if I typed out the EU instead of European Convention of Human Rights I apologize because that was not my intention.

The point is many remainers argue we threaten lose the ECHR by leaving the EU and that is simply not the case. Leaving the EU by itself does not take away the ECHR. The friendship group in question did not read into it nor did they know.


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

Judy Garland's Biggest Fan said:


> I'm not a SJW. Quick using retarded phrases you learned on the internet. You clearly don't know what the hell it even means.


Is your "safe space" a camera free zone? Where is the footage? Sorry if I "triggered" you by asking for evidence, its just in my WHITE MALE nature to ask for evidence before believing ridiculous stories.


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

L-DOPA said:


> History with the EU has shown us that a second referendum would not be about giving people a chance to "change their minds" as such it would be about forcing through the "right result." This has happened in the past when France and The Netherlands in a referendum rejected the Lisbon Treaty and yet were forced to vote on the issue again because the EU refused to accept the result.
> 
> Do not think in light of a vocal minority who have loudly protested the result that pro-EU politicians or even the EU themselves (although I will give them credit that they have accepted the result for now and want to address it quickly) force through another referendum when it's literally just been days since the Brexit vote was casted.
> 
> ...


If people have not changed their mind what is the problem? If they have changed their minds, that needs to be known, if not, they'll vote Brexit again. I think you are worried that people will have changed their minds once they've seen the lies exposed, they've seen that the fear mongering was in fact completely accurate and you don't want to give them a chance to change their minds. You make out like you're defending democracy, you're not, you're opposed to it.

For the record I don't think think there should ever have been a vote in the first place, I think it should be up to Parliament. Most people simply aren't well informed enough to make a decision on this. I come from a highly educative university where I studied the European Union for a couple of years, it's a very complex thing that most people don't really have a clue about.



> Regardless they won't be getting any power but that is besides the point. The point is they are a bandwagon party with no principles whatsoever. Who jump on any ship they think is going to win voters over to them to secure any sort of relevancy. If you have no issue with that then so be it. We will agree to disagree but we know how trustworthy they are as far as positions and policy thanks to their time in the Coalition government.


What are you on about? They were junior partners in the coalition, they acted as a brake on Conservative excess - the Conservatives wanted unlimited fees, for example, the Liberal Democrats forced them to put a limit on it and implemented unbelievably generous repayment terms that effectively make it cheaper than it was before. They have always been a party in favour of Europe, that is one of their principles.



> The fact that we will be having a future outside the EU has been decided by the British Electorate. You know what I mean't so don't play semantics with me. It's been literally days since the vote and yes it's clear Cameron didn't plan in the event of leaving...because guess what? He didn't think he would lose. Funny that.
> 
> We will see what happens when we have a new PM and Article 50. is launched.


Where is Johnson's plan? Where is Farage's? You can't seriously tell me that they don't have one yet and decided to make one up after the vote. There must be a major, detailed plan somewhere, surely?



> I did of course know this but I guess I have to explain everything? The reason why this question was asked was in fact because of the reason you have just stated. Many of the Remain supporters have argued and feared that an exit from the EU would threaten the Human Rights that were secured in Europe in 1950. I do not believe I claimed that the EU and The European Convention of Human Rights were completely entwined with each other and if I typed out the EU instead of European Convention of Human Rights I apologize because that was not my intention.
> 
> The point is many remainers argue we threaten lose the ECHR by leaving the EU and that is simply not the case. Leaving the EU by itself does not take away the ECHR. The friendship group in question did not read into it nor did they know.


I've never seen anyone defend our membership of the EU by saying it protects our membership of the ECHR. They talked about workers rights, which is valid, and the EU's commitment to Human Rights, which is also valid, but I never saw anyone claiming the ECHR would go if we left the EU as a point in favour of Remain. Could you give me a link to some remain campaigners saying it?

I don't think you're as clever as you think you are.


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

TheResurrection said:


> .


How many times must socialism fail for you to accept it as a flawed vessel? Also, why do you support fascist economics?


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

Even if they did not have a plan surely they should have an idea of how we should carry on after? 

On the racist people that was always going to happen. Racist idiots are using it as an excuse to be racist idiots. It is a small minority of people tbh and had little to do with the overall leave campaign. 

Like has been said the EU is a complex thing with good and bad points.


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

Lou Generation Era said:


> How many times must socialism fail for you to accept it as a flawed vessel? Also, why do you support fascist economics?


I would never deny that socialism is a flawed system, I'm talking here in favour of what is, at it's core a liberal economic block. I don't support fascist economics at all either, I generally believe in the free market and am opposed to high military spending. Can you make up your mind about what you're accusing me of?


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

TheResurrection said:


> I don't support fascist economics at all either, I generally believe in the free market and am opposed to high military spending. Can you make up your mind about what you're accusing me of?


You cannot believe in the European Union and the free market. The two ideas are moving in opposite directions. The European Union is a socialist bureaucracy and the free market is pure libertarian capitalism.


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

Lou Generation Era said:


> You cannot believe in the European Union and the free market. The two ideas are moving in opposite directions. The European Union is a socialist bureaucracy and the free market is pure libertarian capitalism.


The EU is tremendous for the free market. As an EU citizen I can set up a business in Italy, hire staff from Poland, Germany and Ireland to suit my needs, move them over to Italy and sell goods across the border to France. A small amount will come out from my taxes paid to the national government that goes to the EU but that's it. The level of socialism within it is actually very low.


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

TheResurrection said:


> The EU is tremendous for the free market. As an EU citizen I can set up a business in Italy, hire staff from Poland, Germany and Ireland to suit my needs, move them over to Italy and sell goods across the border to France. A small amount will come out from my taxes paid to the national government that goes to the EU but that's it. The level of socialism within it is actually very low.


You can do those things without regulations and bureaucracy. If the governments did not impose stupid laws on importing and exporting in the first place, there would be no reason for the EU. They used their countries governments to put stupid laws that impeded the small guy from competing on the global market and then they created one centralised government to "fix" it. Ironically enough, that centralised government has started working in its own interest as well to collect money for policies that they put into place. So, not only do those original governments collect your money, but now, so does the EU government. Twice fucked, the people are over something that should have been fixed at home. What is going to happen when the EU corrupts? Another government to govern the EU? It's never ending, flawed logic.


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

Lou Generation Era said:


> You can do those things without regulations and bureaucracy. If the governments did not impose stupid laws on importing and exporting in the first place, there would be no reason for the EU. They used their countries governments to put stupid laws that impeded the small guy from competing on the global market and then they created one centralised government to "fix" it. Ironically enough, that centralised government has started working in its own interest as well to collect money for policies that they put into place. So, not only do those original governments collect your money, but now, so does the EU government. Twice fucked, the people are over something that should have been fixed at home. What is going to happen when the EU corrupts? Another government to govern the EU? It's never ending, flawed logic.


In what countries though? Where else can I gather the best available staff for my business from 20 different countries and move them in with no problems? The EU gets rid of all of the regulations and bureaucracy that impede the little guy. 

The governments give money to the European Union, it doesn't take any money directly. The reason for this is to ensure there isn't huge inequality among regions within the European Union because this would lead to extreme levels of migrations. 

How can you get rid of the regulations between countries without some organisation to make sure it all works alright? How do you avoid a race to the bottom regarding workers rights?


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

TheResurrection said:


> How can you get rid of the regulations between countries without some organisation to make sure it all works alright? How do you avoid a race to the bottom regarding workers rights?


By electing officials who will repeal and remove these ridiculous trade laws. The answer isn't putting more and more government. The answer is less government. This is such an obvious solution to the problem. Your method will lead to (and already has) a matryoshka doll effect. By the way, you didn't answer my question. Will you put another government on top of the EU when it completely corrupts? You know, since that is your solution to everything.


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

TheResurrection said:


> *If people have not changed their mind what is the problem? If they have changed their minds, that needs to be known, if not, they'll vote Brexit again.* I think you are worried that people will have changed their minds once they've seen the lies exposed, they've seen that the fear mongering was in fact completely accurate and you don't want to give them a chance to change their minds. You make out like you're defending democracy, you're not, you're opposed to it.
> 
> *For the record I don't think think there should ever have been a vote in the first place, I think it should be up to Parliament. Most people simply aren't well informed enough to make a decision on this.* I come from a highly educative university where I studied the European Union for a couple of years, it's a very complex thing that most people don't really have a clue about.


So let me get this straight....you're criticizing me for not wanting the left to force through another referendum in direct opposition to the one we just held merely days ago simply because they didn't get the result they wanted and in the same breath you just stated you would have never wanted the referendum to happen to begin with?

:lmao. Okay, now I see what this is about. This isn't about some sort of cry for more democracy or a real chance for people to change their minds or make a decision. You are just like the EU was with the Lisbon Treaty (which by the way you never rebutted) and like the people I criticized. You don't care what happens so long as you get the result you THINK is best which is us to stay exactly where we were with little to no positive change. You have the nerve to say that I am against democracy when clearly from the start you would have never allowed the people to even have a vote on the issue. Your elitist and authoritarian "know better than everyone" attitude has clearly shined through just like a lot of other people my generation has somehow spawned.

And you say I'm worried? No I'm not worried. Unlike you I already stated that in the event that the remain campaign won I would have accepted the result and moved on. It is you that is clearly worried, wanting to force through another referendum when you never wanted one to begin with simply because we voted to leave. This about getting the result you want by any means necessary, not about giving the people what they want or accepting the vote of a *democratic process.*

I have simply stated what actually politicians of the remain campaign such as Cameron and Corbyn already stated, I do not believe we should have another referendum after a decision was made by the people in the first one. Should the result have fallen the other way I believe the exact same thing should happen. I have consistency on the issue. Do you? Would you be telling me should the remain campaign have won and leave campaigners would have acted the same way as what the left are doing right now that these people have a right to another referendum? Of course you wouldn't. Because all you care about is the result, not democracy or the will of the people. You are exactly like the people I have been criticizing.




TheResurrection said:


> What are you on about? They were junior partners in the coalition, they acted as a brake on Conservative excess - the Conservatives wanted unlimited fees, for example, the Liberal Democrats forced them to put a limit on it and implemented unbelievably generous repayment terms that effectively make it cheaper than it was before. They have always been a party in favour of Europe, that is one of their principles.


What am I talking about? Oh let me see, rise in VAT to 20%...Tax cut for Millionaires, voting against the Mansion Tax right after going against Cameron about it, abandoning reforming the House of Lords, failing to protect sure start after stating tough decisions were to be made but that was the one area they said should stay open, cutting police staff which has actually effected two of my cousins as they work in the police force...want me to continue?

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/harriet-harman/10-broken-lib-dem-promise_b_3925441.html

This doesn't mean by the way when I look back I agreed with all of their promises but it's clear in many instances it wasn't so much as acting as a brake more like it was about securing some semblance of power by any means necessary.

Tuition fees actually wasn't what I was referring to. Compromise always has to be made and they made a compromise to that issue and met half way. That happens in a coalition government. But there are many issues where they simply turned their back when they got into power. The Mansion Tax is a clear example of this where they could have stuck to their guns and voted against it and had it still gone through then at least we could say they tried. Instead they went against a manifesto promise completely.

And they put the issue of the EU before the core principle of their own party! They are a party that is supposed to be about Liberalism and Democracy. Stating they would overturn the result...not even have another referendum but to literally turn over the result of a democratic majority in order for us to go back into Europe is literally the opposite of what their party claims to stand for. It is neither Liberal nor Democratic. It is the actions of an Authoritarian dictating what should have happen to the future of this country damned whether we agree or disagree.

If you can't see that that is selling out on what the party should stand for then I don't know what to tell you.





TheResurrection said:


> Where is Johnson's plan? Where is Farage's? You can't seriously tell me that they don't have one yet and decided to make one up after the vote. There must be a major, detailed plan somewhere, surely?


Clearly reading has never been your strong suit. You continue to ask me questions about something I never claimed. I never claimed that a deal had already been made or in the works for our future outside the EU, I said the electorate had decided they believed our future was better off outside the EU. If you can't keep this discussion in the context of what I actually said then I won't be taking you very seriously.

For your information, it was said time and time again that we don't know what the future looks like both IN and OUT of the EU. Both Nick Clegg of Remain and Daniel Hannan of Leave stated this. If you actually watched the debate that was held by the Spectator you would know this.




TheResurrection said:


> I've never seen anyone defend our membership of the EU by saying it protects our membership of the ECHR. They talked about workers rights, which is valid, and the EU's commitment to Human Rights, which is also valid, but I never saw anyone claiming the ECHR would go if we left the EU as a point in favour of Remain. Could you give me a link to some remain campaigners saying it?
> 
> I don't think you're as clever as you think you are.


I never said the politicians in the Remain Campaign said that, of course they didn't. They aren't that stupid and do know that the ECHR wouldn't change by us leaving. That is the point. There have however been remain supporters who have come out with this argument and have been worried we would risk losing the ECHR by us leaving the EU. Particularly because Conservative politicians like Theresa May have argued that we should argue scrap the ECHR and legislate our own Bill of Rights.

Of course this isn't correct and of course politicians have never stated this but this is the type of arguments I've seen prop up by some Remain Supporters.


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

Sorry for the double post but I just came across this little fact. Just some for food for thought...


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

NeverDrewADime said:


> Judy Garland's Biggest Fan said:
> 
> 
> > Do your research, there are several stories of racist harrassment over the past week. Sorry I hurt your feelings though. I forgot how sensitive some of you people are.
> ...


Or maybe he is right that racist are using this as an excuse to be vile cunts. 

In work but check out channel 4 youtube or facebook page showing one suck incident with an american man who has lived over here for 18 years getting called a fucking immigrant by some chavy cunt.


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

Lou Generation Era said:


> By electing officials who will repeal and remove these ridiculous trade laws. The answer isn't putting more and more government. The answer is less government. This is such an obvious solution to the problem. Your method will lead to (and already has) a matryoshka doll effect. By the way, you didn't answer my question. Will you put another government on top of the EU when it completely corrupts? You know, since that is your solution to everything.


Nah, the supranational government facilitates trade, if it "completely corrupts" the national governments say fuck that and either change it or replace it.



L-DOPA said:


> So let me get this straight....you're criticizing me for not wanting the left to force through another referendum in direct opposition to the one we just held merely days ago simply because they didn't get the result they wanted and in the same breath you just stated you would have never wanted the referendum to happen to begin with?
> 
> :lmao. Okay, now I see what this is about. This isn't about some sort of cry for more democracy or a real chance for people to change their minds or make a decision. You are just like the EU was with the Lisbon Treaty (which by the way you never rebutted) and like the people I criticized. You don't care what happens so long as you get the result you THINK is best which is us to stay exactly where we were with little to no positive change. You have the nerve to say that I am against democracy when clearly from the start you would have never allowed the people to even have a vote on the issue. Your elitist and authoritarian "know better than everyone" attitude has clearly shined through just like a lot of other people my generation has somehow spawned.
> 
> ...


Yes, I believe in representative democracy where well educated people study the issues and come to sensible conclusions. Not ill informed plebiscites where one side makes a load of crazy promises to win.

I probably do know more than you, I studied this issue at one of the world's top universities. Why do you have such a problem accepting that others might be better informed than you?

You're right, I am worried. I think this country has voted to fuck itself in the arse and we need to do everything we can to reverse that situation



> What am I talking about? Oh let me see, rise in VAT to 20%...Tax cut for Millionaires, voting against the Mansion Tax right after going against Cameron about it, abandoning reforming the House of Lords, failing to protect sure start after stating tough decisions were to be made but that was the one area they said should stay open, cutting police staff which has actually effected two of my cousins as they work in the police force...want me to continue?
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/harriet-harman/10-broken-lib-dem-promise_b_3925441.html
> 
> ...


They were junior partners in a coalition, that's how it works. You don't get to meet half way when your partners have 5 times as many seats as you.

They would be taking us back in by democratic means, ie. by winning a lot of seats at the election or getting an another referendum. Maybe it'll be Bre-entry, we could be out by the time of the next election. Either way I don't see how you can say putting something in their manifesto is undemocratic. People are still allowed to support the EU you know.



> Clearly reading has never been your strong suit. You continue to ask me questions about something I never claimed. I never claimed that a deal had already been made or in the works for our future outside the EU, I said the electorate had decided they believed our future was better off outside the EU. If you can't keep this discussion in the context of what I actually said then I won't be taking you very seriously.
> 
> For your information, it was said time and time again that we don't know what the future looks like both IN and OUT of the EU. Both Nick Clegg of Remain and Daniel Hannan of Leave stated this. If you actually watched the debate that was held by the Spectator you would know this.


Are you saying there is no plan and they're making it up as they go along? Did you know this before you voted?



> I never said the politicians in the Remain Campaign said that, of course they didn't. They aren't that stupid and do know that the ECHR wouldn't change by us leaving. That is the point. There have however been remain supporters who have come out with this argument and have been worried we would risk losing the ECHR by us leaving the EU. Particularly because Conservative politicians like Theresa May have argued that we should argue scrap the ECHR and legislate our own Bill of Rights.
> 
> Of course this isn't correct and of course politicians have never stated this but this is the type of arguments I've seen prop up by some Remain Supporters.


Hey, nobody ever said all Remain supporters know what they're talking about, just that on average they're a lot better educated, better informed, more intelligent and less xenophobic. That doesn't mean all Brexiters are stupid, small minded morons, just that more of them are and without them Brexit probably would have lost.


L-DOPA said:


> Sorry for the double post but I just came across this little fact. Just some for food for thought...


Meaningless, if the election had been contested under FPTP the counting areas would have been roughly equal size, rather than Gibraltar - population 30,001 - and Birmingham - electorate of over 700,000 - being counted as the same.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

FARAGE WITH THE TOP TIER BANTZ! :banderas

Inb4 "HE ARGUES LIKE A 5 YEAR OLD."


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

Some of the rhetoric in this thread from the Remain supporters sounds like 1930's Nazi talk. It's fascinating how it was only 70 years ago yet now as we speak in 2016 we have people talking of taking away people's rights to vote based on education, age, affiliation etc.. Talk of turning over Democratic process and everything else because it doesn't fit someone's agenda. How fun!


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

TheResurrection said:


> Nah, the supranational government facilitates trade, if it "completely corrupts" the national governments say fuck that and either change it or replace it.


But that is contradictory to what has already happened and what you believe. Your governments at home corrupted with ridiculous laws and regulations and your solution was to put another government on top of it. You talk out of both sides of your mouth.


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

Miss Sally said:


> Some of the rhetoric in this thread from the Remain supporters sounds like 1930's Nazi talk. It's fascinating how it was only 70 years ago yet now as we speak in 2016 we have people talking of taking away people's rights to vote based on education, age, affiliation etc.. Talk of turning over Democratic process and everything else because it doesn't fit someone's agenda. How fun!


 No it doesnt, it's the direct opposite of what the Nazis did.

They flooded the destitute masses with propaganda and the people than gave them power. People approved the Nazis becoming a dictatorship through referendums.

Not disputing that they are undemocratic views though.

Regardless, ignoring the vote of the masses remains the worst thing the government could do for the future of the country. At best (from a remain PoV) it would see us leaving the EU when a right wing party came to power next election so I just don't see the point.

In regards to the apparent increase of racism, just police it properly nd see how long it lasts.


----------



## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

Can we quit with the Nazi shit?

The Nazi's were elected and their main platform was that Germany was being controlled and weakened by foreign powers and needed to break away and reform its historical greatness

nazi is not fucking code for "political party you don't like"


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

BehindYou said:


> Miss Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Some of the rhetoric in this thread from the Remain supporters sounds like 1930's Nazi talk. It's fascinating how it was only 70 years ago yet now as we speak in 2016 we have people talking of taking away people's rights to vote based on education, age, affiliation etc.. Talk of turning over Democratic process and everything else because it doesn't fit someone's agenda. How fun!
> ...


Thank you. Can we all stop acting like children? Calling other nazis is not an argument and makes you look as bigoted as the people you were calling bigots for calling you bigots. Agreed with the bottom part. Whilst they do not have to agree with the refenendum and stick to it the consequences will be so much worse if they don't.


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

Miss Sally said:


> Some of the rhetoric in this thread from the Remain supporters sounds like 1930's Nazi talk. It's fascinating how it was only 70 years ago yet now as we speak in 2016 we have people talking of taking away people's rights to vote based on education, age, affiliation etc.. Talk of turning over Democratic process and everything else because it doesn't fit someone's agenda. How fun!


To compare people who want their country to remain in an extremely peaceful voluntary association in accordance with the wishes 48% of voters and the majority of their democratically elected parliament to genocidal monsters who wanted to conquer Europe by force is absolutely disgusting. If the EU ever began a campaign of genocide, used their army to prevent countries from leaving, imposed harsh laws that restrict civil rights or started mass discrimination against certain races I and virtually everyone else who supports it would be dead set against it. The EU is the organisation that does most to fight against these things.

Please withdraw that comparison and apologise for it.

On the point about vote discrimination, it makes total sense for complex issues to be resolved by highly educated people rather than the man on the street, but these people must be democratically elected. On discrimination on the grounds of age - what country doesn't practice this? 

Discrimination in polling actually favoured Brexit in this case. 16 and 17 year olds and EU nationals living and paying taxes here were discriminated against on the grounds of age and nationality. These demographics would undoubtedly have been Bremain leaning.

There is no democratic process to overturn by the way. The referendum was non-binding. The only people talking about removing democratic rights are the people who want to take away the Scottish Parliament's right to block the extinguishment of EU law in Scotland.



Lou Generation Era said:


> But that is contradictory to what has already happened and what you believe. Your governments at home corrupted with ridiculous laws and regulations and your solution was to put another government on top of it. You talk out of both sides of your mouth.


The EU is first and foremost an intergovernmental organisation. The governments founded it to facilitate trade between themselves, help their economies and above all to prevent conflict. It's the governments who created it and the governments who must be the checks to its power.


----------



## Solf (Aug 24, 2014)

I understand why people voted to leave. The european union needs a lot of work no one is willing to do as of now. Sometimes, you gotta kick the dog to make something happen. I'd rather do bullshit by myself than being told to do something every single fucking day and see the results are only ok.

The thing is ; You'd have to be crazy to not think that there is a huge disparity in education between pro-brexit and pro-remain supporters. But that's very logical. The EU has been benefitting the middle-class/upper-class/rich people (basically, all those who actually pursue education) a lot.

Of course, you'd say "but, actually, economically, it may become worse for the popular classes now !"

And then you'd miss the point entirely. We're not fucking dogs. We're not fucking machines. We do not only think about money. Globalism has brought something new : The upper-class london inhabitant is far more akin to the upper-class paris inhabitant than he is to the sunderland plebs. And it's not about money. It's about cultural development. It's about cultural similitudes.

The working class is being scorned. It's not even conscious, but we're telling them to fuck off. On facebook, I saw people writing in the aftermath (and I'm not even kidding) "dang fuck, that's going to make it more complicated to study abroad".

Do you see what the problem is ? Those people are completely disconnected from the real world. They just like their pretty europe where every single middle class+ person is holding hands with his neighbors while drinking at Starbuck's.

Do you know why people voted for Brexit ? They don't want to be the butt of the joke anymore. They can take being basically scorned by their upper class countrymen, but they sure as hell can't just condone becoming part of a global third world like the one we're creating right now with the working classes.

Sad thing is ; I do scorn the working class. Everything they think is important, I despise. They're loud, ugly and stupid most of the time. But you have to be smarter than to think you're the fucking center of the world. They do exist. We have to include them in the process. We have to make them feel valued once again.

That's why those preferred nationalism or, at least, very patriotic systems : They can feel part of something bigger there. In globalism, they're just a moot point. They're the ugly reality we don't want to see. The lowest step on the stairs. Humans need pride in order to live on. Of course they can't have any right now.


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

TheResurrection said:


> The EU is first and foremost an intergovernmental organisation. The governments founded it to facilitate trade between themselves, help their economies and above all to prevent conflict. It's the governments who created it and the governments who must be the checks to its power.


The corrupt governments founded an organisation to work between the bureaucracy that they helped create. How splendidly convenient. I'm sure this will lead to less corruption and less government on their behalf. That's a wrap, folks. That's all that needed to be said, really. Straight from the mouth of a "Remain" voter.


----------



## TheResurrection (Dec 21, 2011)

Lou Generation Era said:


> The corrupt governments founded an organisation to work between the bureaucracy that they helped create. How splendidly convenient. I'm sure this will lead to less corruption and less government on their behalf. That's a wrap, folks. That's all that needed to be said, really. Straight from the mouth of a "Remain" voter.


I don't think less corruption is the aim, the aim has always been that trade, good relations and interdependence will be fostered. Will there be some corruption in the system? Of course, but what sort of organisation doesn't have that?


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

BehindYou said:


> No it doesnt, it's the direct opposite of what the Nazis did.
> 
> They flooded the destitute masses with propaganda and the people than gave them power. People approved the Nazis becoming a dictatorship through referendums.
> 
> ...


Isn't that what EU and Remain did? They spread propaganda and fear mongering? Pretty sure that's what they did, both sides were pretty dodgy about it but one could argue the EU itself is the making of a dictatorship with officials who are unelected and do not answer to really anyone. So I'd say the comparison is more than fair. 

It's not "childish" to call out someone who is speaking of changing up the voting system to benefit one side and not the other, nor is all the talk that sounds totalitarian in nature something that should not be tolerated. Once people suggest the democratic process should be overturned, we have a major problem. Yes it sucks 48% of the vote lost out but that's how the process works, how can you please both Remain and Leave? You cannot. This is why we have votes, this is why if you want your opinion known, you vote. If you don't you have nothing to complain about, if you lose.. well oh well. Life is full of disappointments or have we forgotten that's how it's been since we cast off the shackles of kings and queens?

If there is racism, it should be taken care of but who knows since people aren't above lying or making up stories to gain support or sympathy. People should be weary of what they say, some of this talk sounds really bad.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

The FTSE 100 has regained all the value lost since the vote.

Come, tell us about how voting Leave is the end of the world economically for Britain :eyeroll

Of course most of the people saying that are devout anti-capitalists who don't know shit about creating wealth or doing business at all, all they know is how to type 750 words of manufactured self-righteous indignation so they can keep their getting paychecks from the Grauniad and keep getting invitations to all the haute parties.


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

deepelemblues said:


> The FTSE 100 has regained all the value lost since the vote.
> 
> Come, tell us about how voting Leave is the end of the world economically for Britain :eyeroll
> 
> Of course most of the people saying that are devout anti-capitalists who don't know shit about creating wealth or doing business at all, all they know is how to type 750 words of manufactured self-righteous indignation so they can keep their getting paychecks from the Grauniad and keep getting invitations to all the haute parties.


The EU is only like 20% of the worlds GDP, but apparently its going to be the end of the world if we leave. I'm going to make a killing once lloyds hits 70 again, people are such overanxious fools.


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

@DesolationRow @L-DOPA 

Just watched this compilation of Nigel Farage: 






First of all, you Brits do politics a hell of a lot better than we do. :lol Love the frankness and the passion. Don't know how much of it is sincere, but it makes for great political theater. 

Secondly, your press is even more blatantly globalist and leftist than ours, with the agenda of smearing anyone who stands for sovereignty and preserving a nation's culture as a racist bigot and misquoting them to that end at every possible opportunity. It seems a lot of people in this thread even have been thoroughly programmed to your media's agenda, and you lack the ability to see when you are being manipulated to ends that go against your self-interest, which is a sad reality. 

You've got a man in Farage who is willing to take all of this heat just to fight for your interests and a lot of you choose to shit on him, often for superficial reasons, and I'm sure most of you don't really even understand why. My dog is more skeptical of what I feed him than a lot of you are with what your media feeds you. :lol 

Continue to be floored by the parallels between Farage and Trump and how the media treats both, and how effectively programmed so many in the US and the UK are by the media which has a very clear agenda. It really shows just how universal this agenda is among the corporate media, and how controlled they are by the corporate and political elite in both parts of the world. We're talking about a small group of people wielding ultimate control over how hundreds of millions of people perceive reality. People really need to break free of this matrix before it's too late. Turn to alternative media, wear your skeptic's hat 24/7, never believe any quote you hear of anyone without investigating the context for yourself, and don't allow emotional shaming from people who have neither empathy or shame to affect your actions and beliefs.


----------



## Alco (May 18, 2006)

CamillePunk said:


> @DesolationRow @L-DOPA
> 
> Just watched this compilation of Nigel Farage:
> 
> ...


I agree with the bolded part 100 percent. 

On the topic of Trump and Farrage however, I have to say, having followed Trump for almost 5 years now on Twitter (and fully realizing how a medium like Twitter lends itself perfectly to populist oneliners), I believe Trump is a complete idiot who often spews nonsensical and contradictory bullshit. I dislike him and I find the way he presents himself and his ideas offensive, eventhough I'll admit some of his ideas carry some value. I can't help but feel sorry for Americans that have to choose between him and Hillary, as both seem equally horrible as candidates. 

As far as Farrage goes, I don't follow British politics enough to cast a relevant judgment but I have the feeling he should surround himself with better people.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

Alternative media is almost as useless as mainstream media tbh


----------



## DesoloutionRow (May 18, 2014)

TheResurrection said:


> I don't think less corruption is the aim, the aim has always been that trade, good relations and interdependence will be fostered. Will there be some corruption in the system? Of course, but what sort of organisation doesn't have that?


If you had to pick your poison in this situation, you would be picking the greater of the two poisons by remaining with the EU. You're basically saying yes, these fellows are corrupted, but let's give into their corruption to ease our lives. That, my friend, is insanity.


----------



## BRITLAND (Jun 17, 2012)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn_6sU7O43w


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

CamillePunk said:


> @DesolationRow @L-DOPA
> 
> Just watched this compilation of Nigel Farage:
> 
> ...


Seen that compilation of Farage before (hell I watched yesterday as well actually) and it is brilliant.

Agreed with your sentiment 100% and I'm not even a huge fan of Farage's.


----------



## skypod (Nov 13, 2014)

CamillePunk said:


> @DesolationRow @L-DOPA
> 
> First of all, you Brits do politics a hell of a lot better than we do. :lol Love the frankness and the passion. Don't know how much of it is sincere, but it makes for great political theater.
> 
> ...



You realise there's right wing media too that shocks viewers with headlines like "Now Muslims demand: GIVE US SHARIA LAW" and "Fury over plan to teach Koran in schools". This is all shit designed to get one exact result from readers looking at it in their local shops; "terrible that is isn't it Margret? Those bloody arabs ruining our way of life isn't they?" It's tedious. Not sure how anyone can even read tabloids and not roll their eyes at being brainwashed. 

Maybe you should try going out and making a few friends with people from other cultures, religions and countries and getting some real life experience and you won't be so terrified of your culture being taken away. Your dream world of segregation and everyone staying within their countries would be pretty dull.



(FYI, call me a liberal leftie all you want but I'm for sensible immigration, and think theres bad and good immigration)


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

Cp there is left and right wing media over with media on both sides being biased as fuck.


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

Roy Mustang said:


> Cp there is left and right wing media over with media on both sides being biased as fuck.


You won't find unbiased media anymore. In fact it's got so bad that some media outlets will lie, well "lie" they just cherry pick stats to "prove" their point but really it's mostly bullshit. It's really sad. :frown2:


----------



## FriedTofu (Sep 29, 2014)

Miss Sally said:


> You won't find unbiased media anymore. In fact it's got so bad that some media outlets will lie, well "lie" they just cherry pick stats to "prove" their point but really it's mostly bullshit. It's really sad. :frown2:


Blame it on Rupert Murdoch's success at building a highly lucrative propaganda empire. Probably share the same mentality with the current Chinese leadership that the media's role is to be the mouthpiece of the state, or in Murdoch's case, his business interests.


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

Boris isn't running for the leadership:bosque

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk


----------



## FriedTofu (Sep 29, 2014)

:lol

After throwing Britain and his party under the bus, Boris chickened out on what was his original objective in the first place. What a disgrace.

:lol


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Father Ted said:


> Boris isn't running for the leadership:bosque


Was quite shocking to hear the news. I knew Boris was slimy but I had no idea he was a spineless coward too.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

FriedTofu said:


> Blame it on Rupert Murdoch's success at building a highly lucrative propaganda empire. Probably share the same mentality with the current Chinese leadership that the media's role is to be the mouthpiece of the state, or in Murdoch's case, his business interests.


Murdoch only copied the masters of the technique at the BBC. Of course he didn't have a compulsory license fee to finance his empire with, he had to get people to actually want to buy his papers and watch his television channels.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Meh. No one ever said there wouldn't be growing pains.

Whoever gets the job I want him yo want it. Doesn't mean Boris can't be used in some other capacity.

Farage and Gove have got this.


----------



## CGS (Feb 7, 2004)

Boris being hilarious as always. Done all of this to become PM then says fuck it when the moment arises :lol:

At least we won't have to endure him as prime minister.


----------



## Blackbeard (Apr 23, 2014)

Ugh, now I have to root for Theresa May of all people, fuck sake.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

Blackbeard said:


> Ugh, now I have to root for Theresa May of all people, fuck sake.


you'll be getting boris or nigel in the end anyway after UKIP does the ironic thing of course and cannibalizes labour before it cannibalizes the tories :lol


----------



## MOX (Dec 6, 2011)




----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

AryaAnark said:


>


I'm confused, he said virtually none, not none of you as in not a single one of them had had a job.


----------



## BRITLAND (Jun 17, 2012)

According to a Sky News poll Theresa May is the clear favourite to win the leadership and be our new Prime Minister, she would also be the UK's second female Prime Minister. Mind you I see many people in the party voting for her due to Hillary likely winning in the US.









She'll probably have Gove, Boris and all that in her cabinet anyway to unite the party. I wonder who she will pick for the Chancellor role, Liam Fox or Andrea Leadsom perhaps? 

In other news, Labour's Deputy leader Tom Watson is up for sale on eBay with the current bid at £65,100,00:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/-/131863819905?roken=cUgayN&clk_rvr_id=1055162962401&afsrc=1&rmvSB=true

I thought Angela Eagle was meant to challenge Corbyn for the leadership today? You know, the small woman who looks like a chav version of Angela Merkel. Labour really are screwed.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

AryaAnark said:


>


exceptions to the rule don't disprove the rule. this is something that is commonly misunderstood in politics.

i'm sure plenty of EU MPs were solid contributors to society before they decided they wanted to be a member of a nearly powerless organization that does little more than parrot and rubber stamp whatever the politburo in brussels decides. the EU parliament decides essentially nothing, the european high court of justice or whatever it's called and about 10 men and women in brussels + whoever is chancellor of germany + whoever is president of france have nearly all the power. farage is certainly no stranger to hyperbole and sacrificing details for good trolling. 'virtually none of you have contributed much of anything to society since you joined this parliament' would be 100% accurate but isn't as good a troll line as 'virtually none of you have done shit that's worthwhile your ENTIRE LIVES.'


----------



## MOX (Dec 6, 2011)

Miss Sally said:


> I'm confused





deepelemblues said:


> exceptions to the rule don't disprove the rule.


My sincere apologies for being an uninformed ignorant wally. Please help me overcome my stupidity by informing me as to the vocational aspirations of the other people at that meeting. Not all of them, obviously, that would be silly. Let's just say, hmm, a few of them? A handful? That's not very many at all.

Judging by your immediately dismissive responses, I assume you can name and shame at least a few of them considering how informed you seem to be regarding what the EU is exactly.

I await my education.


----------



## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

I find it funny that people think being "bold" is a positive attribute for a politician

Being bold can be great but 9/10 just means you have zero tact and your political "skills" are crashing into the opposition and hoping they break

"cutting a promo" in Parliament does not make you cool, it makes you an angry teenager who somehow got to speak to the government

I feel embarrassed when politicians pull that shit and even more embarrassed that people are impressed by it 

Also don't play the "he only said most" game, its a dumb ass loophole to cover your ass when you pass judgments on groups of people you don't like and they start kicking your ass 

I would know, its how I acted when I was 16


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

AryaAnark said:


> My sincere apologies for being an uninformed ignorant wally. Please help me overcome my stupidity by informing me as to the vocational aspirations of the other people at that meeting. Not all of them, obviously, that would be silly. Let's just say, hmm, a few of them? A handful? That's not very many at all.
> 
> Judging by your immediately dismissive responses, I assume you can name and shame at least a few of them considering how informed you seem to be regarding what the EU is exactly.
> 
> I await my education.


I'm simply asking how one example disproves what he said? That burden isn't on me, i didn't post the meme, you did. I'm asking a valid question, no need to get snarky and upset because I pointed this out. The way you posted it made it seem like it was said NONE as is not a single person there has had a proper job but that's not what was said.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

AryaAnark said:


> My sincere apologies for being an uninformed ignorant wally. Please help me overcome my stupidity by informing me as to the vocational aspirations of the other people at that meeting. Not all of them, obviously, that would be silly. Let's just say, hmm, a few of them? A handful? That's not very many at all.
> 
> Judging by your immediately dismissive responses, I assume you can name and shame at least a few of them considering how informed you seem to be regarding what the EU is exactly.
> 
> I await my education.


Since the topic has apparently been changed from actual accomplishments to vocational aspirations, I can assure you that every single one of them has goals of being stellar public servants and doing great good for society.

It hardly goes without saying that one man in the EU Parliament having accomplished great things in his life does not mean that all, most, or even a plurality of EU MPs have done things that bettered Europe. It doesn't mean that they haven't either of course... 

I am just as dismissive of pointing out one man to create a disingenuous implication as I am of Nigel Farage trolling EU MPs as they have trolled him in the past as well. It's all trolling it's not THAT important.


----------



## MOX (Dec 6, 2011)

Miss Sally said:


> I'm simply asking how one example disproves what he said? That burden isn't on me, i didn't post the meme, you did. I'm asking a valid question, no need to get snarky and upset because I pointed this out. The way you posted it made it seem like it was said NONE as is not a single person there has had a proper job but that's not what was said.


Either seek the truth or get off the bus. Just don't do that 'I don't understand your question' shite because if that's the truth then get off the fucking bus. Average intelligence or above people only. But thank you for your contributions up to this point. 



deepelemblues said:


> Since the topic has apparently been changed from actual accomplishments to vocational aspirations, I can assure you that every single one of them has goals of being stellar public servants and doing great good for society.
> 
> It hardly goes without saying that one man in the EU Parliament having accomplished great things in his life does not mean that all, most, or even a plurality of EU MPs have done things that bettered Europe. It doesn't mean that they haven't either of course...
> 
> I am just as dismissive of pointing out one man to create a disingenuous implication as I am of Nigel Farage trolling EU MPs because they have trolled him in the past as well. It's all trolling it's not THAT important.


The topic didn't change, but you have taken excellent advantage of my ambiguous phrasing to avoid answering my question. Well done you. In fact, I actually agree with you; it was an incredibly difficult question to answer and in your position I probably would have sought a way to avoid answering it as well. Fuck answering that shit, for real. At least you didn't go the whole 'I'm confused' route. You have earned a modicum of my respect for that.

Also, sorry about your Boris Johnson. Real shame that.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

AryaAnark said:


> The topic didn't change, but you have taken excellent advantage of my ambiguous phrasing to avoid answering my question. Well done you. In fact, I actually agree with you; it was an incredibly difficult question to answer and in your position I probably would have sought a way to avoid answering it as well. Fuck answering that shit, for real. At least you didn't go the whole 'I'm confused' route. You have earned a modicum of my respect for that.
> 
> Also, sorry about your Boris Johnson. Real shame that.


You want to twit Nigel Farage for inexactitude yet you can't even stay on-topic as to what Farage was inexact about and try to handwave it off as "ambiguous phrasing." :heston

You talking about respect is also :heston with your patronizing and presumptuous tone.

I already answered the question, you have chosen to ignore it. Farage sacrificed accuracy for a better troll line. 



> farage is certainly no stranger to hyperbole and sacrificing details for good trolling. 'virtually none of you have contributed much of anything to society since you joined this parliament' would be 100% accurate but isn't as good a troll line as 'virtually none of you have done shit that's worthwhile your ENTIRE LIVES.'


That is implicitly answering the question.



> i'm sure plenty of EU MPs were solid contributors to society before they decided they wanted to be a member of a nearly powerless organization that does little more than parrot and rubber stamp whatever the politburo in brussels decides.


That is explicitly answering it. You may of course disagree with my characterization of the EU Parliament but it is undeniable that I answered in the affirmative that many EU MPs have had "proper jobs" in Farage's words. 

It's hard sometimes being so smart, isn't it? I know it is, it's okay.

Boris Johnson's current or future job has little interest to me besides the casual kind. Sorry. Likely he will never be PM now though.


----------



## MOX (Dec 6, 2011)

deepelemblues said:


> You want to twit Nigel Farage for inexactitude yet you can't even stay on-topic as to what Farage was inexact about and try to handwave it off as "ambiguous phrasing." :heston
> 
> You talking about respect is also :heston with your patronizing and presumptuous tone.
> 
> ...


There's so much fluff and bluster in that post that whatever to all of that. My original question was name a handful of other people in that EU meeting that Farage insulted who had never done a proper job in their lives. There absolutely are plenty of folks in that meeting that would back up your argument. However, answering my question by naming them requires you conducting just a little bit of research.

Sorry, I know that's a dirty word around the likes of you. Who needs actual research when you can just read a Daily Mail headline.


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

AryaAnark said:


> Either seek the truth or get off the bus. Just don't do that 'I don't understand your question' shite because if that's the truth then get off the fucking bus. Average intelligence or above people only. But thank you for your contributions up to this point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for the insults, it's nice to see people living up to the example the people are setting on twitter etc when it comes to this topic. Again, you posted a meme but in what way does that meme disprove what was said? It wasn't said every single person in that room never had a proper job and if most of those people were able to do a proper job there probably wouldn't have been a Brexit. So really what is the point of the meme besides showing one exceptional man's career? Does that suddenly change up everything? That's what I'm asking you.


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

Were any of you pro-EU geeks in this video? :banderas


----------



## Blackbeard (Apr 23, 2014)

AryaAnark said:


>


Vintage Nigel Farage :cole

I am amazed and flabbergasted at how anyone can like such a vile, ignorant, repugnant POS.


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

@DesolationRow @CJ; @CamillePunk

Updating you guys with more post-brexit news that I have seen.

Firstly, Nordic Alliance?!

https://www.rt.com/business/349008-iceland-uk-northern-union/




> After knocking England out of the European football, Iceland hopes Britain will join a new union after Brexit, shaping a northern "super-triangle" together with Norway.
> 
> Trond Sorensen @trondsor
> Iceland, Norway and UK. Lets reestablish the old viking trade routes #BREXIT
> ...


The Norwegians don't seem too keen on the idea at the moment but it's interesting how many countries now want to do business with and set up trade blocs with us now we've left the EU.


More Commonwealth offers:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...uk-its-top-trade-negotiators-for-post-brexit/



> *New Zealand offers UK its top trade negotiators for post-Brexit deals*
> 
> New Zealand has offered its top trade negotiators to the United Kingdom, relieving the British civil service as it prepares for the strain of seeking new deals with countries across the globe.
> 
> ...


So we've had Canada, Hong Kong and now New Zealand pledge that they want to trade with Post-Brexit as well as the offer of top negotiators from NZ. Whilst of course trade with EU countries and it's implications remain uncertain it looks as those Daniel Hannan's prediction of rediscovering our relationships with the commonwealth are beginning to already become true.

Add that to the absolutely astounding protests and campaign for Hong Kong to be under British rule again and we have a long term situation which could end up being very beneficial to us.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...campaigners-demand-return-to-british-rule-as/


An example of ridiculous EU regulation. This is the type of idiocy we've escaped from.

http://www.againstcronycapitalism.o...ans-claim-that-water-can-prevent-dehydration/




> Never underestimate the daftness of bureaucrats. Never.
> 
> This is from 2011 but it’s still great. HT Aaron Day
> 
> ...



News on the FTSE 100 by the BBC no less!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36660133



> *Global stock markets rally as Brexit fears abate*
> 
> The FTSE 100 has surged through the level it closed at last Thursday, recovering all of the ground it had lost in the wake of the Brexit vote.
> The pound also strengthened against the dollar and euro, while Wall Street's rally continued for a second day.
> ...


Not of course undermining the short term consequences which of course are not good but the apocalyptic analysis from the Remain camp does appear to be weakening somewhat. Of course different analysts and economists have different outlooks on what is going to happen so we'll have to wait and see. But honestly evidence at the moment is suggesting that in the short term the outlook may not even as bad as I have been thinking.


Meanwhile in youth remain land...










An example of what I claimed earlier in this thread. When only 36% of 18-24 year olds voted and you have such an outcry against the result the chances are that a number of them didn't even vote.

If you decide not to vote because you "don't understand this bollocks" and then call people idiots for voting leave then it just makes you look like a complete tool.

As I said before, MAYBE if people like this actually VOTED then we wouldn't be leaving the EU.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

AryaAnark said:


> Either seek the truth or get off the bus. Just don't do that 'I don't understand your question' shite because if that's the truth then get off the fucking bus. Average intelligence or above people only. But thank you for your contributions up to this point.


This post embodies everything wrong with the left. What vile, hateful, holier-than-thou filth.

I have seen better debate in the General US election thread and that is a liberal hellhole.


----------



## MOX (Dec 6, 2011)

I apologise for my vile and hateful filth. I understand now that wanting everybody to work together in peace and harmony and debate how to do that in an informed and intelligent manner rather than with ignorant and hyperbolic nonsense was utterly disgusting of me.

I see now that that's why they call it the Far Right, because you're far righter than I.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

AryaAnark said:


> I apologise for my vile and hateful filth. I understand now that wanting everybody to work together in peace and harmony and debate how to do that in an informed and intelligent manner rather than with ignorant and hyperbolic nonsense was utterly disgusting of me.
> 
> I see now that that's why they call it the Far Right, because you're far righter than I.


You could have worded your stance in regards to Sal's opinion in a much better way than just coming off as an egotist. Not everybody has to believe what you do to have "the facts". In fact very rarely in debate do people ever concede to the other as having any true "facts." You could have said "I disagree" and still had been carrying on your debate in an attempt to build a bridge and work it out instead of reducing your argument to "Im right, nyeh!"


----------



## BehindYou (Jun 16, 2011)

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...u-referendum-why-didnt-you-vote-a7105396.html



> It has been estimated that only 36 per cent of people in the 18 – 24 year old category voted in the EU referendum. 64 per cent of young people did not bother to take themselves down to the polling station and place their vote


fpalm

Its not a solid stat but if their estimations are close to correct its pretty woeful.


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

Blackbeard said:


> AryaAnark said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


The mind boggles. You can disagree with people without acting like an assclown. God help this country if he gets in charge. I am fucking leaving ASAP.

Meanwhile the tory choices are may who is human rights abuser, the guy who thinks he can cure homosexuals and gove who by default it the least bad but still came out with the dumbest quote i have heard. Hopefully some wildcard comes up outside of those 3.


----------



## MOX (Dec 6, 2011)

Miss Sally said:


> I'm confused, he said virtually none, not none of you as in not a single one of them had had a job.





deepelemblues said:


> exceptions to the rule don't disprove the rule.


I was originally hoping you'd seek to discover this kind of information for yourselves but I realise now that I was the one in the wrong. I was the one spitting disgusting hateful vileness by expecting people who disagreed with me to be informed and educated as to the issues at hand. I am ashamed of my conduct, and I simply offer this as a peace offering to my far righter brothers and sisters. It is but a sample, but that is all I hatefully, disgustingly and filthily asked of you in the first place.










In response to this, I would appreciate information regarding Nigel Farage's legitimacy as a person who should be listened to regarding serious issues that affect the country, continent and world at large. I thank you in advance for educating my tiny mind.


----------



## Mr. Socko (Sep 2, 2006)

http://thebrexitplan.com/


:lmao


----------



## NJPW316 (May 21, 2016)

I've never understood why you would want young people to vote? They're dumb, inexperienced, and know nothing of how the world works (especially economics). As far as I'm concerned the less young people vote, the better off we will all be.


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

Blackbeard said:


> Vintage Nigel Farage :cole
> 
> I am amazed and flabbergasted at how anyone can like such a vile, ignorant, repugnant POS.


You're vile yourself, a member of the nasty left that can't argue with anyone, all you can do is name call.


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

NJPW316 said:


> I've never understood why you would want young people to vote? They're dumb, inexperienced, and know nothing of how the world works (especially economics). As far as I'm concerned the less young people vote, the better off we will all be.


I'm with you, these idiots are too young to form their own opinions, they just copy whatever their dumb friends and lecturers repeat. The only young people I want voting are conservatives.


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

Mr. Socko said:


> http://thebrexitplan.com/
> 
> 
> :lmao


LOL at the butt hurt leftist that went to all that trouble


----------



## NeverDrewADime (Apr 22, 2016)

L-DOPA said:


> @DesolationRow @CJ; @CamillePunk
> 
> Updating you guys with more post-brexit news that I have seen.
> 
> ...


That's because liberals are all stupid, ugly, lazy, entitled people.


----------



## FriedTofu (Sep 29, 2014)

The lesson shouldn't be which side was 'right', but telling the political elites to stop trying to play the games of thrones. Everybody want to be the populist champion, but none are willing to be the one to pull the trigger on a decision that will create uncertainty for the country. Look how much backpedalling the leave campaigners are doing now, delaying invoking article 50.


----------



## paladin errant (Apr 23, 2016)

word of the end.


----------



## LaMelo (Jan 13, 2015)

That sounds about right. It is sad but true.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FriedTofu (Sep 29, 2014)

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36702468

So Farage has stepped down as UKIP leader...

Seems like the case of the boy that cried wolf for all the Brexit leaders.


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

Resigns a day after lunch with murdoch

Interesting

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

Farage is a lying piece of shit. "Oh we'll put £350 million back into the NHS if you voet leave".....leave vote wins then the lying sack of dog turds backpeddles "Auh actually it was a mistaken pledge"..

Fuck off you lying cunt. Good riddance to a scumbag


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

Simply Flawless said:


> Farage is a lying piece of shit. "Oh we'll put £350 million back into the NHS if you voet leave".....leave vote wins then the lying sack of dog turds backpeddles "Auh actually it was a mistaken pledge"..
> 
> Fuck off you lying cunt. Good riddance to a scumbag


Yeah none of this happened. 


Nigel Farage stepping down. :mj2 All the great men don't want to be career politicians. Mad respect for an incredible man. Go get your life back Nigel, you've done good.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

:heston


----------



## stevefox1200 (Jul 7, 2009)

deepelemblues said:


> :heston


Was it funnier the first, second or third time it was posted?


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

The 4th






Or maybe the 5th






Nah 6th time's the charm


----------



## tommo010 (Jul 15, 2008)

:Oooh


----------



## CGS (Feb 7, 2004)

Farage's troll level is unmatched. "I've got my country back now I want my life back". What a dick:lmao


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Funny that libs can't handle simple banter after years of dishing it out. Not our fault they've grown too fat & happy to have a taste of their own medicine.


----------



## Simply Flawless (Mar 28, 2011)

> Yeah none of this happened.


Yes it did because Farage even said it did...why would he say it was a mistaken pledge if it never happened? :leo


----------



## FriedTofu (Sep 29, 2014)

Wanted all of the plaudits but none of the responsibilities. And his supporters somehow twist this into a positive of him not being a career politician despite doing the most politician move. What a dick. :lol


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

Simply Flawless said:


> Yes it did because Farage even said it did...why would he say it was a mistaken pledge if it never happened? :leo


You really need to stop reading only the headlines and actually see what the person themselves says and in what context for yourself. This headline-consuming confirmation bias is not going to inform you, it's only going to misinform you, which is the goal. 

There were two major Leave campaigns, Vote Leave and Leave.EU. Farage is not associated with the former and in fact there's a lot of bad blood between them. So Farage said it was a mistake for Vote Leave to have the bus advertisement with the 350 million a week figure. Here's the thing though, that advertisement doesn't even make the "pledge" that Remainers claim it does. It simply notes that 350 million a week is spent for the EU, and mentions the NHS as one of the things at home it could go to. It takes a lot of confirmation bias to take it the way the media has reported it. The only figure Farage ever gave for funding the NHS was about 6 billion a year IIRC, and 350 million a week adds up to a LOT more than 6 billion a year. So yeah, the whole thing is just bogus reporting by the pro-EU media. 

Farage has accomplished his task, which he spent two decades fighting for. For a lot of you who have never accomplished anything I can understand the envious hate, but I applaud him for the accomplishment and respect his wishes to go back to his private life, which he's entitled to. I personally think it's a shame and that he's exactly the type of leader the UK needs, especially with all of the rampant globalist cuckoldry I've seen in this thread, but alas, it's his decision.


----------



## Alco (May 18, 2006)

CP, I do not think this is envious hate as much as it is a sense of a captain abandoning ship. Of course, I don't live in the UK so I wouldn't know, but from the outside, that's how it all looks. It looks like every single party, whether they were for or against the Brexit, lacks leadership and a sense of responsibility. And honestly I find it shocking.


----------



## CamillePunk (Feb 10, 2011)

Alco said:


> CP, I do not think this is envious hate as much as it is a sense of a captain abandoning ship. Of course, I don't live in the UK so I wouldn't know, but from the outside, that's how it all looks. It looks like every single party, whether they were for or against the Brexit, lacks leadership and a sense of responsibility. And honestly I find it shocking.


Nah everything Farage has done or said has been given a negative spin. He's the UK version of Trump. He wants national sovereignty and to maintain a culture built on western values, and thus must be vilified by the leftist media in everything he does to discourage anyone else from being like him.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

Why would Nigel want to "remain" lol.

Now that he's won his crusade the only place for him to go is 10 Downing Street. All the people who hate him would crucify him more if he stayed on as leader of UKIP but didn't mount a serious campaign to overtake Labour and the Tories, and would crucify him more for not succeeding instantly if he did attempt such a campaign. 

UKIP becoming a serious contender for largest parliamentary party is a project that will take a long time and a monumental amount of effort and frankly has little chance of succeeding. Whoever attempts it, if anyone does, is in for a very long period of abuse and hard struggle. Nigel already endured that for 25 years. He took the abuse, he put in the effort, he won. He's smart for not wanting to embark on a new two decade struggle to make UKIP the top dog of the UK parliament, and that's the expectation that would be placed on him if he stuck around. Better to go out on top. His problem wasn't with the UK government, it was with the UK government being all entangled with the EU. His crusade wasn't to run Britain. It was to run Britain out of the EU.


----------



## KC Armstrong (Jun 19, 2013)

Incredible that people are actually praising this coward for stepping down. "Well, the building is on fire, my work here is done". Seriously, what a cunt.


----------



## Alco (May 18, 2006)

CamillePunk said:


> Nah everything Farage has done or said has been given a negative spin. He's the UK version of Trump. He wants national sovereignty and to maintain a culture built on western values, and thus must be vilified by the leftist media in everything he does to discourage anyone else from being like him.


Oh I do not dispute some leftwing media putting him in a negative daylight. As you should not deny other, more rightwing media, giving him much needed exposure to succeed. 

The way I perceive it though, is a complete lack of leadership from his part to retreat to the European Parliament for at least another 2 years (which, in itself is quite ironic) and leave the true battle (=negotiating and carrying out the Brexit deal) to someone else.


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

Alco said:


> Oh I do not dispute some leftwing media putting him in a negative daylight. As you should not deny other, more rightwing media, giving him much needed exposure to succeed.
> 
> The way I perceive it though, is a complete lack of leadership from his part to retreat to the European Parliament for at least another 2 years (which, in itself is quite ironic) and leave the true battle (=negotiating and carrying out the Brexit deal) to someone else.


He should have stayed until the negotiating was done and then retired in two years on a high note depending who you talk to. Bowing out now seems kinda lame.


----------



## Blackbeard (Apr 23, 2014)

tommo010 said:


>


He speaks the truth.


----------



## ErickRowan_Fan (Feb 8, 2014)

So what did people think Nigel Farage was going to accomplish as the leader of UKIP? The "Leave" campaign has essentially freezed him out from being involved with Brexit. He's far more likely to be able to accomplish something _outside_ of politics than within a system where he is never going to be allowed any kind of say. UKIP is also far more likely to succeed, to re-brand itself post-Brexit, without him because in his effort to bring Britain out of the EU, he has essentially severed any relationships he ever had with other politicians from Britain, who went the pro-establishment route.

As he has said, his job was not to merely get Britain out of the EU, but to get the entire Europe out of the EU. That task still lies ahead and it's not going to be accomplished by being part of a minor political group in British politics. He's probably going to be advising for other anti-EU groups now, now that his job is done in the UK.

The Eurocrats are still at large and Farage hasn't yet struck a decisive killing blow to them. Juncker, Rompey, Schultz, Verhofstadt, etc. are still heavily involved in EU politics and Farage was the best man for the job to continuously expose them for what they were. He finally has them on the ropes, so why would he waste the chance by disappearing into insignificance?






At no point in time, has Farage ever been part of the negotiations for a post-Brexit deal, so it's not like he has left his chair on the table, unlike a Boris Johnson (who ultimately just brought too much heat upon himself, being the face of an anti-establishment campaign, to be able to go on). To call him a "rat" leaving the sinking ship is to indicate that would've somehow had power over the post-Brexit situation if he had not left his post. UKIP has a grand total of _one_ member in the Parliament, there's absolutely nothing that they can do to influence any decisions one way or the other. Nigel Farage _himself_ doesn't even have a seat on the Parliament. The reason he quit UKIP probably has more to do with internal pressure within UKIP wanting to re-brand itself with a fresher face now that being anti-EU is no longer a concern. 

Winston Churchill also got the boot post-World War II because Britain needed a leader that wasn't associated with war, does this mean that he was also a rat leaving the sinking ship? If you're a clever person who has an understanding of politics, you'll realize that Britain needs leaders who will proceed with Brexit, but who haven't "tarnished" their reputation globally by being associated with the anti-EU sentiment, in order to make deals with European leaders. That's why guys like Farage and Boris Johnson have got to go, regardless of whether they want to or not.


----------



## FriedTofu (Sep 29, 2014)

It's simple. He is called a rat for leaving the sinking ship because he is leaving when things are going to get harder.

There is no more EU bogeyman to blame for the poorly run parts of the country. The elites know this. Boris knows this. Farage knows this. That's why all are running away before returning in 2020 if things go bad. If things turns out well, they can hang their names on being the pioneers of leading Britain out of the EU without doing the hard work of actual leadership.


----------



## Death Rider (May 18, 2011)

On lighter side former poker player and MEP tony g has applied to be ukip leader :lmao.


----------

