# Casino Ladder Match



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Darby 
Sammy
Spears 
Scorpio
Cabana
Hager 

I imagine. 

Scorpio Sky will win though.


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## Aedubya (Jul 12, 2019)

U can vote for your options too Erik lol
Choose wisely as only 5 max!


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

I'm going with Scorpio Sky, Sammy, Darby, Hager, and Spears (if Hangman can't make the PPV, then I'll replace Spears with Omega).


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## taker1986 (Sep 14, 2016)

Darby
Sammy
Scorpio
Wardlow
Spears
Sabian

I think Wardlow instead of Hager as I can't see 2 IC members being in this match, plus I think they'll keep Hager free incase Page isn't available and have him face Omega.


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## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

*Allin*, *Guevara* are locks. *Sky* is a good shout. Needs a couple of base/catch wrestlers so *Spears* and Hager makes sense but I don't think Hager will be in it - but wherever Jericho is (Hardy compound?). Wardlow and Luchasaurus I think will be ringside for MJF vs Jungle Boy so I keep them out as well. *Colt Cabana* is a vet who can hold it together if necessary and I'll go with *Kip* as well to give him inclusion rub and have Penelope Ford involve herself in a bump/spot.

Three faces - Allin, Cabana and Sky
Three heels - Guevara, Spears, Sabian

Three maybe four legit chances to win - Sammy and Darby the favorites. I wouldn't be surprised with Spears or Sky winning. 

(Good call on Hager also not being likely with Guevara likely in. Two IC members probably won't happen, as they're sold as a strong unit and don't need the potential infighting)


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## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Janela expert at falling off things


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## ProjectGargano (Apr 7, 2018)

My hopes:

Darby Allin
Sammy Guevara
Scorpio Sky
Joey Janela
Havoc
Wardlow


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## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

Janela is interesting to consider. I'd have him left out and bitter about it and then crash the match and cause an incident where it needed to be re-started or something. Make him start acting like a "Bad Boy". 

Have Sky look like he's about to win before Janela runs out and knocks over the ladder sending Sky flying. Janela goes up the ladder and grabs the prize. A bit of a commotion as refs come down and security takes Janela out from ringside - match ordered re-started but all the injured wrestlers have been given some time to recover and Sky ends up not winning and thus screwed out of it by Janela. Sky vs Janela could be an interesting (to me anyways) undercard singles feud.


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## Mutant God (Sep 9, 2015)

Skyl 
Allin
Sammy
Spears
Surprise entrant


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## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

1. Darby
2. Guevara
3. Janela
4. Sabian
5. Sky
6. Luchasaurus

Guevara or Sky to win, Luchasaurus to be the big guy, Darby and Janela to fall off of things, and Sabian because I needed another heel.


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## The Masked Avenger (Apr 18, 2018)

Sammy and Darby are givens. I think Sky is a good choice as well. Kip has been looking good in his matches recently. Janela is probably a good bet even if I didn't even think of him at first. I would bet on Rey Fenix if he ends up being there as well.

My six:
Sammy Guevara
Darby Allin
Scorpio Sky
Kip Sabian
Joey Janela
Rey Fenix

However, I could see Colt, Spears, Havoc or any other number of guys in this match.

Is it officially 6 entrants? Or is that just a guess?


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## Aedubya (Jul 12, 2019)

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> Is it officially 6 entrants? Or is that just a guess?


Nothing is official yet, hence me predicting it'll be 5 only


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## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

Guessing but...

Scorpio Sky
Darby
Wardlow
Guevarra
Marko Stunt
(Surprise Guy)


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Darby Allin, Sammy Guevara, Joey Janela and Scorpio Sky will be in it. Kip Sabian is a good shout for fifth. Man, not one of them is really ready to be a main eventer in this company, haha. Out of them all, Sky is probably the best choice to win it. Either that or MJF replacing someone and taking the whole thing after beating Jungle Boy.


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## ProjectGargano (Apr 7, 2018)

Knowing now that Fenix is in Jacksonville, probably he will be in this ladder match too...


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## Jazminator (Jan 9, 2018)

ProjectGargano said:


> Knowing now that Fenix is in Jacksonville, probably he will be in this ladder match too...


Really? If true, that would be awesome.

My five:
Darby
Sammy
Rey Fenix
Scorpio Sky
Jack Evans


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## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

Why is the best talent (MJF) never in anything?


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

TheAppler said:


> Why is the best talent (MJF) never in anything?


Ssh. Don't mention someone in AEW being misused. That's only something WWE can do.


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## DrewCN (Jan 10, 2012)

TheAppler said:


> Why is the best talent (MJF) never in anything?


after he beat cody, they positioned him as a #1 contender. Probably waiting to retry that


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Darby Allin officially announced as the first competitor for the match.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1259513530379886598


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## ProjectGargano (Apr 7, 2018)

Colt Cabana is the second participant in this ladder match... meh.


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## Aedubya (Jul 12, 2019)

Yeah that's very meh


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## The Masked Avenger (Apr 18, 2018)

ProjectGargano said:


> Colt Cabana is the second participant in this ladder match... meh.


You need a big guy to catch jumpers.


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## ProjectGargano (Apr 7, 2018)

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> You need a big guy to catch jumpers.


That´s a good logic though


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Colt Cabana has been confirmed as the second contestant.


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

It's extremely unlikely, but it would be great if somehow Pac were able to make it back and get himself inserted into this match.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Pac would be a good shout, but I think he'll be out because of the obvious. 

Sammy Guevara will be in. I'm really hoping they do the right thing and have MJF enter and win the whole thing after beating Jungle Boy. Main event that motherfucker. He should take the belt off Moxley before too long and then start a feud with Cody.


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## The Masked Avenger (Apr 18, 2018)

El Hammerstone said:


> It's extremely unlikely, but it would be great if somehow Pac were able to make it back and get himself inserted into this match.


Absolutely, he would be the odds on favorite.


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## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Not excited by Colt inclusion


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## Jagaver (Aug 11, 2019)

I'd have preferred them to make this for the first shot at the TNT title. Don't like these gimmick matches full of mid carders offering a shot at the world title.


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## taker1986 (Sep 14, 2016)

Colt cabana and now Orange cassidy. This is underwhelming.


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## ProjectGargano (Apr 7, 2018)

It would be good that they announce how many participants will be in the match...if its only six, it is a little disappointing that Colt and Orange are in it.


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## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Ha, that's surprising. Hopefully he's not going to win like Otis did, lol. You never know these days.

Hopefully Sky, Wardlow and Luchasauras are next.


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

In before Orange Cassidy finds himself at the top of the ladder and then just can't be bothered to reach for the chip.


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## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

Not a fan of OC in the match to add comedy to a match with title shot implications. But I guess Colt was already there - but he can be serious and uses his comedy as a strategy.


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1260246135010189312


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## Bosnian21 (May 27, 2019)

It should be fun, but the fact that Colt Cabana and Orange Cassidy are one win away from a World Title match is preposterous. This devalues the whole point of “wins and losses matter.” 

Colt hasn’t beaten anybody of significance and barely has even been in the company. Orange Cassidy had one match and lost. Why do they get to be in a match with a World Title shot on the line?


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Bosnian21 said:


> It should be fun, but the fact that Colt Cabana and Orange Cassidy are one win away from a World Title match is preposterous. This devalues the whole point of “wins and losses matter.”
> 
> Colt hasn’t beaten anybody of significance and barely has even been in the company. Orange Cassidy had one match and lost. Why do they get to be in a match with a World Title shot on the line?


Isn't the fact the whole event is about gambling, the point though? 

That anyone can technically via fluke in a casino? Aslong as the acts like Cabana and Cassidy don't win but absolutely play their part, I'm fine with it. 

It was the same as the Battle Royale last year with the likes of Kiss, Glacier, Sunny Daze etc. 

Hopefully we get some bigger names involved over the coming events. PAC would be a lovely surprise but not sure how viable that is.


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## The Masked Avenger (Apr 18, 2018)

Erik. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1260246135010189312


I like Orange Cassidy, I'm not a big fan of him being in the match but I did actually laugh out loud when I read this.


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

taker1986 said:


> Colt cabana and now Orange cassidy. This is underwhelming.
> 
> View attachment 86118


...ugh.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

The fact that Darby Allin who rarely wins, Colt Cabana who has no significant wins, and Orange Cassidy are the participants thus far is stupid as hell.

On top of Brodie Lee getting a title shot within 2 months of being with the company, this shit should be a crime against the company. Goddamn. STOP PROTECTING EVERYONE!


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## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

I had Kip as my sixth, so OC in place of Kip - not going to really hate on it in that I understand it's probably better for the buyrate as OC does have more if a fanbase than Kip. Colt I always had in as a catch/base guy as he's one of the bigger guys on the roster and has a ton of wrestling experience. 

As long as this future title fight is a television main event I could even see OC winning by fluke - but that would seem like a copy of WWE's MITB with Otis catching the dropped briefcase. 

Orange Cassidy vs Jon Moxley for AEW World Title on a future Dynamite probably does a good rating. Cassidy could ever forget he has it and 8-9 months from now he's be like "Oh yeah, I forgot all about this, I'll take my title shot now".


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## taker1986 (Sep 14, 2016)

El Hammerstone said:


> ...ugh.


Yeah my thoughts as well. This is quickly turning from the match I was most excited about to my piss break. The final 2 or 3 guys better be good otherwise this match was a bad idea.


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

taker1986 said:


> Yeah my thoughts as well. This is quickly turning from the match I was most excited about to my piss break. The final 2 or 3 guys better be good otherwise this match was a bad idea.


Guevara, Sabian, Fenix and Sky, I assume.


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## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

So far only Darby is worthy. The rest suck ass. Come on AEW, you want people to buy this, right? lol


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## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

I'm sure whoever is in the match it will be fun. It's just for a match that is a #1 Contender's match for the Title, Cabana and OC aren't anywhere near the status of being a believable #1 contender.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Neither is Darby Allin.


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## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

bdon said:


> Neither is Darby Allin.


No, not yet.

But he at least feels like a guy who could get there he day, unlike the others.


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## Shaun_27 (Apr 12, 2011)

For the number one contender, the names so far are a joke. Sometimes I think I am being harsh, but AEW told me "wins and losses matter" and they would deliver a "sports like product". I am just holding them accountable for their own words. What has Orange Cassaidy or Colt Cabana done to be in the conversation for the number one contender?


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Shaun_27 said:


> For the number one contender, the names so far are a joke. Sometimes I think I am being harsh, but AEW told me "wins and losses matter" and they would deliver a "sports like product". I am just holding them accountable for their own words. What has Orange Cassaidy or Colt Cabana done to be in the conversation for the number one contender?


Be available and part of their limited roster?


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## Aedubya (Jul 12, 2019)

New competitor announced today

Ill go with Guevara


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## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1260600691019575297
Fenix replaces my prediction of Scorpio Sky. I still think Guevara and Spears will round out the competitors.


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## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Hell yeah! Fenix is awesome.
Seems like they're doing something with Dustin and Spears.

Totally forget about Sammy. Would love to see Wardlow/Luchasaurus there as well.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Well, Cody is clearly trying to kill Moxley’s title reign. Why the fuck are these people even being considered for a goddamn world title match!?

This shit is stupid.


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## ProjectGargano (Apr 7, 2018)

bdon said:


> Well, Cody is clearly trying to kill Moxley’s title reign. Why the fuck are these people even being considered for a goddamn world title match!?
> 
> This shit is stupid.


Isnt Fenix a legit contender?


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

I think Fenix is awesome and all, but Darby is the only one in the match thus far that I can even envision getting a title shot; though I can't envision him winning.


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

I think people play down the fact it's a casino themed PPV in that anyone at this event can cash in their chips, so to speak, and end up getting a shot.

What they've missed the trick on is showing why these particular guys have been chosen. Have their names been pulled out of a hat? Did they roll a 7? If its a themed event, make it seem themed.

Fenix and Allin are great choices for this sort of match. Their potential future stars but also exciting in this environment with their high risks.

Look forward to seeing who else is to be added. Scorpio Sky would be wise


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## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

Who all is being criminally left out given the announced matches and travel restrictions?


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Erik. said:


> I think people play down the fact it's a casino themed PPV in that anyone at this event can cash in their chips, so to speak, and end up getting a shot.
> 
> What they've missed the trick on is showing why these particular guys have been chosen. Have their names been pulled out of a hat? Did they roll a 7? If its a themed event, make it seem themed.
> 
> ...


There is no air of mystery with the names involved. None of these guys deserve to be in a ring with Moxley, let alone have a chance at winning.

It’s stupid.


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

So, my guess is Sammy and Scorpio will be the final two involved (I can't see them giving Scorpio these packages and not including him). If this is the case though, then I can only see Darby or Sammy winning the thing, but neither of them having even a remote shot at beating Moxley, so take that for what you will.


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## Aedubya (Jul 12, 2019)

We will find out a great deal more tonight


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

bdon said:


> There is no air of mystery with the names involved. None of these guys deserve to be in a ring with Moxley, let alone have a chance at winning.
> 
> It’s stupid.


Neither are most of the guys in MITB matches or Royal Rumble matches..

And they aren't going to win.


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

El Hammerstone said:


> So, my guess is Sammy and Scorpio will be the final two involved (I can't see them giving Scorpio these packages and not including him). If this is the case though, then I can only see Darby or Sammy winning the thing, but neither of them having even a remote shot at beating Moxley, so take that for what you will.


Who confirmed there were 6 people max?


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## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

I'd like to see the match tweaked to make it AEW's own. What about allowing pinfalls to eliminate combatants to make it easier to eventually climb the ladder/less chance for somebody else to climb up while your're fighting with somebody else sorta deal? 

What makes a Casino Ladder match different than a regular ladder match? Casino Battle Royale was gimmicked with card suits, 21 competitors, a wildcard etc. 

Casino Battle Royale had drizzling shit competitors who got title shots with their wins. Only reason why there isn't a second CBR is they can't have so many wrestlers in the ring at once for social distancing and the like.


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## taker1986 (Sep 14, 2016)

Very happy about Fenix being in the ladder match. So far it's two good picks and two bad ones. I can easily see Allin or Fenix as future AEW champions


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Erik. said:


> Who confirmed there were 6 people max?


Well, based on everyone's predictions, that's the way it seemed.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Erik. said:


> Neither are most of the guys in MITB matches or Royal Rumble matches..
> 
> And they aren't going to win.


And WWE fucking sucks. AEW has 4 PPVs, and you’re going to blow one on Darby Allin vs Moxley after Moxley vs Brodie?

Goddamn Cody is doing everything he can to book everyone into oblivion.


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

bdon said:


> And WWE fucking sucks. AEW has 4 PPVs, and you’re going to blow one on Darby Allin vs Moxley after Moxley vs Brodie?
> 
> Goddamn Cody is doing everything he can to book everyone into oblivion.


Who, based on who's booked on the PPV already right now and the depleted roster, would you have in the match? 

Bare in mind the alternative is a Battle Royale with 15+ jobbers instead.

Its clear Double or Nothing is the companies equivalent to the Royal Rumble/MITB in the sense that a gimmick match on the card will end up in a title shot.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Darby Allin and Rey Fenix headlining the match is the problem. It’s stupid. Don’t throw MJF and Jungle Boy into a match, using them in place of goddamn Colt Cabana and Orange fucking Cassidy (who I enjoy). Luchasaurus and/or Wardlow.

There were better options. Moxley’s title reign is already facing difficulties given his decision to become a babyface with comedy bits. You tack on who he has faced, and it wreaks if sabotage.


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## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

A future title match doesn't mean at All Out or Revolution or Full Gear. It could happen on a future Dynamite. 

Does Jungle Boy have a singles win? How is he stronger than Colt or OC really? Does Wardlow really have any chance to win and seem like a worthy challenge for Moxley? Wardlow and Luchasaurus are limited wrestlers who have been really protected with their in-ring booking. 

I would have included MJF, but the match is anthesis of how he claims to want to wrestle. Would he kayfabe want to sign to be a part of a ladder match?

Cabana is in there as a catch/base wrestler. There will have to be at least one more still.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> A future title match doesn't mean at All Out or Revolution or Full Gear. It could happen on a future Dynamite.
> 
> Does Jungle Boy have a singles win? How is he stronger than Colt or OC really? Does Wardlow really have any chance to win and seem like a worthy challenge for Moxley? Wardlow and Luchasaurus are limited wrestlers who have been really protected with their in-ring booking.
> 
> ...


The point is don’t fucking do it if it doesn’t make sense. This is clearly just them protecting those they have plans for. It’s stupid.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

I actually like Cabana when he's being serious but him being in a ladder match is random as fuck especially when he hasn't even been stringing any wins together on TV. Match is really meh thus far.



TheMaskedAvenger said:


> I like Orange Cassidy, I'm not a big fan of him being in the match but I did actually laugh out loud when I read this.


It's funny that he cares so little about what is going on that he didn't even know this match existed? If that's your cup of tea that's fine but it makes AEW look awful that old mate knows nothing about this one.



Erik. said:


> Neither are most of the guys in MITB matches or Royal Rumble matches..
> 
> And they aren't going to win.


Come on mate...

The Rumble is advertised every year as an opportunity for every man on the roster to shoot their name into the stars and main event WrestleMania. The match should feature 6 guys who wouldn't look out of place against Moxley.

MJF, Jungle Boy, Luchasaurus, Fenix, Darby, Guevara.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I actually like Cabana when he's being serious but him being in a ladder match is random as fuck especially when he hasn't even been stringing any wins together on TV. Match is really meh thus far.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bingo.


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

bdon said:


> The point is don’t fucking do it if it doesn’t make sense. This is clearly just them protecting those they have plans for. It’s stupid.


You want them to get rid of a gimmick match that the PPV is based around? 

"Don't do it. Because I don't like the competitors involved"


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

You don’t do gimmick matches for #1 contender with a bunch of guys who would barely be worthy of contending for the TV title.


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## taker1986 (Sep 14, 2016)

Allin winning this match would be perfectly fine by me. Is their a time limit in which he would get his title match, if its one year (similar to MITB) then they could easily build him up. If the rumours about Sting coming are true then you can either book Sting in a tag match with Allin as his partner or a singles match with Allin going over, which could make him a star and off that momentum he can be a credible threat to win the title. 

Colt and Cassidy are bad choices for this match though. Fenix is awesome and was someone I wanted in this match and could be a future champion, but now's not the time.


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

taker1986 said:


> Fenix is awesome and was someone I wanted in this match and could be a future champion, but now's not the time.


I'd like to see Fenix and Penta as part of the Death Triangle have a run with the tag belts first, then maybe you could do a breakup angle which would obviously lead to a match between the two, which could be awesome, where Fenix would be the babyface of the two as Pentagon's look and less flashy style by comparison would make him the obvious heel. Then after his big win over Penta, he would progressively move up the card.


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## taker1986 (Sep 14, 2016)

El Hammerstone said:


> I'd like to see Fenix and Penta as part of the Death Triangle have a run with the tag belts first, then maybe you could do a breakup angle which would obviously lead to a match between the two, which could be awesome, where Fenix would be the babyface of the two as Pentagon's look and less flashy style by comparison would make him the obvious heel. Then after his big win over Penta, he would progressively move up the card.


I still think it was a mistake putting the titles on SCU instead on the Lucha Bros. 

I'd like them both to be pushed as singles guys while still being a team (similar to how WWE pushed Kofi winning the WWE title and still keeping New Day as a team) but yeah there's also money to be made in a Fenix/Pentagon feud if booked correctly. 

I'd love to see the Lucha Bros win the tag titles. As much as a Bucks/Revolt match gets hyped I'd be just as excited for a Lucha Bris/Revolt match.


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## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

Jagaver said:


> I'd have preferred them to make this for the first shot at the TNT title. Don't like these gimmick matches full of mid carders offering a shot at the world title.





bdon said:


> And WWE fucking sucks. AEW has 4 PPVs, and you’re going to blow one on Darby Allin vs Moxley after Moxley vs Brodie?
> 
> Goddamn Cody is doing everything he can to book everyone into oblivion.


Cheer up -


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Pippen94 said:


> Cheer up -


Is it logical? Does it make sense to you that some of these guys could get a title shot? Were better options not available?


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## Pippen94 (Jan 10, 2020)

I don't know - should be a fun match tho. Just enjoy


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## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

So there is NINE competitors and a hanging poker chip to claim for the win. Nine in a ladder match is overkill. Maybe they'll come in waves and have pinfall eliminations like I suggested earlier to thin the herd out during the match. 

Announced
Allin
Fenix
Colt
Cassidy

Remaining Five?
Guevara
Spears
Sky
???
???

Maybe leave last spot open as a mystery/wildcard - though WWE No Compete doesn't expire to July 15th.


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> So there is NINE competitors and a hanging poker chip to claim for the win. Nine in a ladder match is overkill. Maybe they'll come in waves and have pinfall eliminations like I suggested earlier to thin the herd out during the match.
> 
> Announced
> Allin
> ...


Guevara is in the Stadium Stampede match. Im guessing the last 5 are Spears, Sky, Dustin Rhodes, Janela, and Kip Sabian. Including PAC would cause conflict with Fenix and adding Trent would cause conflict with OC.


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## taker1986 (Sep 14, 2016)

Hopefully Scorpio, Wardlow and Luchasaurus are 3 of the remaining 5.


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Rules of the match:









Rules For Casino Ladder Match At AEW Double Or Nothing Revealed - Wrestling Inc.


On tonight’s Dynamite the rules for the upcoming Casino Ladder Match were announced. The match will take place at AEW Double or Nothing on May 23. It will feature nine wrestlers and the rules are as follows: two entrants will start the bout with another entering every 90 seconds, the winner is...




www.wrestlinginc.com


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## THA_WRESTER (Sep 29, 2011)

Fenix, OC, Darby Allin, Cabana, Luchasaurus, Shawn Spears, Wardlow, Sami Guevara, Scorpion Sky.

Out of that bunch I'd have Fenix when so he can get some nice exposure as a singles competitor and should actually pull a decent match out of Moxley. Have Moxley win, and then this can transition against PAC for the title possibly at All Out in some capacity.


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

With the Stadium Stampede match announced, that makes ten guys that won't be a part of this ladder match; I figured Sammy was a shoe in, but I guess not.

I guess I'll take a wild stab at the rest: 

Scorpio Sky, Shawn Spears, Kip Sabian, Luchasaurus, Jimmy Havoc


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

El Hammerstone said:


> With the Stadium Stampede match announced, that makes ten guys that won't be a part of this ladder match; I figured Sammy was a shoe in, but I guess not.
> 
> I guess I'll take a wild stab at the rest:
> 
> Scorpio Sky, Shawn Spears, Kip Sabian, Luchasaurus, Jimmy Havoc


Guys who have been given no credibility against more established stars being thrown into a match they stand no chance of winning and will likely be treated as filler where said challenger won’t come out of it with any story or character progression.

How much did Scorpio Sky gain by having a one off with LeChampion? What did Jungle Boy gain from going 10 minutes with Jericho? I suppose Spears got an awesome, “I need a tag team partner” angle out being beat by Cody.

_sigh_


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

bdon said:


> Guys who have been given no credibility against more established stars being thrown into a match they stand no chance of winning and will likely be treated as filler where said challenger won’t come out of it with any story or character progression.
> 
> How much did Scorpio Sky gain by having a one off with LeChampion? What did Jungle Boy gain from going 10 minutes with Jericho? I suppose Spears got an awesome, “I need a tag team partner” angle out being beat by Cody.
> 
> _sigh_


I mean, it's pretty bad when I throw my hands in the air and just end up tossing Jimmy Havoc into the match. As for Jungle Boy going 10 minutes with Jericho, and Spears' search for a tag partner, I had forgotten about both happening so I guess that answers that.

Like you've been saying though, you can't just put a midcarder in the ring with a main eventer, have him take the main eventer to a time limit draw for instance, and then say "well, we did it boys", and then have him on one out of every four shows for 6-8 months only to wrestle in random tag matches, winning some and losing some. The follow up is not only just as important as the achievement, I would say it's far more important; otherwise, people look back on that given event as a fluke. Hell, look at Kofi Kingston and Shinsuke Nakamaura right now; neither exactly give off the air of a former world champion.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

The follow up is absolutely FAR MORE important. That’s where you build stars. They get the rub, then you give them something meaningful to do afterwards. They presumably have a good showing with the bigger star, catching a few more people’s attention, and you have something lined up for them where they can carry those eyes to the next feud/angle.


----------



## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

9 guys with a new guy entering every 90 seconds.

Sounds like it could be a good idea, also sounds like it could be a cluster fuck. Hopefully it’s the former.


----------



## Shaun_27 (Apr 12, 2011)

I feel like the winner will have his shot on a throwaway dynamite. None of these names are ready to headline a $50 PPV.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

No chance of a Brian Cage coming out of nowhere and winning this is there?


----------



## ProjectGargano (Apr 7, 2018)

El Hammerstone said:


> With the Stadium Stampede match announced, that makes ten guys that won't be a part of this ladder match; I figured Sammy was a shoe in, but I guess not.
> 
> I guess I'll take a wild stab at the rest:
> 
> Scorpio Sky, Shawn Spears, Kip Sabian, Luchasaurus, Jimmy Havoc


Janela has to be there...


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Shaun_27 said:


> I feel like the winner will have his shot on a throwaway dynamite. None of these names are ready to headline a $50 PPV.


Depends how well they're booked from their win onwards, surely?

Allin and Fenix could quite easily have a rocket strapped to them within that time.

9 people in one ladder match was always going to mean people involved that we known AREN'T going to win. The same as almost every multiman battle royale or ladder match. 

Sky, Fenix, Allin are my picks to win. Luchasaurus and/or Wardlow to have impressive showings.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

ProjectGargano said:


> Janela has to be there...


Yeah, I suppose he would be.


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

The new entrant every 90 second thing is silly unless a ladder match ever ended in under 10 minutes. I'd rather just see the first guy flash ko the second guy and race up the ladder and win in under 90 seconds for the lolz at this point. 

This is basically "give something to everybody we don't have a storyline for" and the fact there is nothing for Darby Allin is friggin criminal.


----------



## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

So the last 2 picks have to be heels, and one of them will win it, don't see Mox squashing any of the guys so far announced.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> The new entrant every 90 second thing is silly unless a ladder match ever ended in under 10 minutes. I'd rather just see the first guy flash ko the second guy and race up the ladder and win in under 90 seconds for the lolz at this point.
> 
> This is basically "give something to everybody we don't have a storyline for" and the fact there is nothing for Darby Allin is friggin criminal.


Darby's got this storyline going with Taz, which will lead to his inevitable TNT title win. Not every storyline needs a match, I guess. In fact, he will probably do something during this ladder match that will result in furthering his storyline with Taz.


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

Interesting that Excalibur explained that someone can win before everyone has entered.


----------



## taker1986 (Sep 14, 2016)

No surprise here.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1261038579733557249
EDIT: Posted above me just a split second before my post lol.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

taker1986 said:


> No surprise here.
> 
> View attachment 86387


That is your winner. I hope not, but I feel it coming.


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

optikk sucks said:


> Darby's got this storyline going with Taz, which will lead to his inevitable TNT title win. Not every storyline needs a match, I guess. In fact, he will probably do something during this ladder match that will result in furthering his storyline with Taz.


Maybe I'm missing the joke but how in the hell is feuding with Taz lead to a TNT title win? What is the payoff to the Taz interactions? Taz ain't ever getting in the ring.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Maybe I'm missing the joke but how in the hell is feuding with Taz lead to a TNT title win? What is the payoff to the Taz interactions? Taz ain't ever getting in the ring.


He will eventually allow taz to train him and be his manager. He was making rookie mistakes, like how he lost to Cody. He will turn from a loser into a winner. Seems like a standard Redemption of ___ storyline and a Mentor storyline. One of the most common storylines in storytelling, I thought.


----------



## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

Scorpio is a good choice. So far the only three deserving are: Scorpio, Darby and Fenix.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Chan Hung said:


> Scorpio is a good choice. So far the only three deserving are: Scorpio, Darby and Fenix.


Which is usually about right for any gimmicked number one contender match.

A third of the match with a good chance of winning and unpredictable? Best they could have asked for really under the circumstances.


----------



## taker1986 (Sep 14, 2016)

optikk sucks said:


> That is your winner. I hope not, but I feel it coming.


This is the order of the 5 so far that I want to win. 

Darby
Fenix
Scorpio


Cassidy/Colt

I'd much rather see Darby or Fenix win than Scorpio, but they've been pushing him with his promos and stuff. 

I think the winner will be someone that isn't announced yet. They'll keep one as a surprise on the night I think.


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

optikk sucks said:


> He will eventually allow taz to train him and be his manager. He was making rookie mistakes, like how he lost to Cody. He will turn from a loser into a winner. Seems like a standard Redemption of ___ storyline and a Mentor storyline. One of the most common storylines in storytelling, I thought.


Man, I hope not. Darby doesn't need a manager, he needs to win matches, specifically against Cody. Kid is over enough but can't get big wins. Taz is fine as an announcer, leave him there. 

Allin is directionless and it's criminal. EVP's book only for themselves - each storyline is just masturbation, making "The Elite" storylines a circle jerk.

He was left off the last PPV, and now is thrown into some garbage afterthought gimmick match to win a poker chip. This is the Casino Battle Royale in a COVID world, so the kid didn't advance in a year. Same place he was at DoN I last year.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

I have not been following on this match well enough,How many people are in the match ?


----------



## taker1986 (Sep 14, 2016)

shandcraig said:


> I have not been following on this match well enough,How many people are in the match ?


Nine


----------



## Aedubya (Jul 12, 2019)

Im gonna guess Brian Cage is number 9


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Man, I hope not. Darby doesn't need a manager, he needs to win matches, specifically against Cody. Kid is over enough but can't get big wins. Taz is fine as an announcer, leave him there.
> 
> Allin is directionless and it's criminal. EVP's book only for themselves - each storyline is just masturbation, making "The Elite" storylines a circle jerk.
> 
> He was left off the last PPV, and now is thrown into some garbage afterthought gimmick match to win a poker chip. This is the Casino Battle Royale in a COVID world, so the kid didn't advance in a year. Same place he was at DoN I last year.


I think that’s exactly why it feels like why, at least to me, they’re doing this storyline. He always loses when it counts. He makes a mistake or he gets outsmarted. Taz was pleading to help. A mentor storyline is definitely coming and he will redeem himself. Darby will win the big one by summer imo


----------



## The Masked Avenger (Apr 18, 2018)

bdon said:


> You don’t do gimmick matches for #1 contender with a bunch of guys who would barely be worthy of contending for the TV title.


The Royal Rumble, Money in the Bank, Elimination Chamber and the King of the Ring all say hi.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1261326076585836544


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> The Royal Rumble, Money in the Bank, Elimination Chamber and the King of the Ring all say hi.


Well congratulations on copying a shitty fucking product!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

optikk sucks said:


> He will eventually allow taz to train him and be his manager. He was making rookie mistakes, like how he lost to Cody. He will turn from a loser into a winner. Seems like a standard Redemption of ___ storyline and a Mentor storyline. One of the most common storylines in storytelling, I thought.


i thought he will keep denying Taz, until taz gets so pissed, he mentors somebody else to destroy Allin

like a chad gable like guy


----------



## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i thought he will keep denying Taz, until taz gets so pissed, he mentors somebody else to destroy Allin
> 
> like a chad gable like guy


I had the same thought, Darby doesn’t need a manager.

Only my pick was Jeff Cobb if they can sign him.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i thought he will keep denying Taz, until taz gets so pissed, he mentors somebody else to destroy Allin
> 
> like a chad gable like guy





TD Stinger said:


> I had the same thought, Darby doesn’t need a manager.
> 
> Only my pick was Jeff Cobb if they can sign him.


I never thought of this actually. It would be a nice change to the normal storyline arch I described.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

TD Stinger said:


> I had the same thought, Darby doesn’t need a manager.
> 
> Only my pick was Jeff Cobb if they can sign him.


When Jeff Cobb had his short stint, Darby Allin instantly came to mind as someone who's style would clash nicely with Jeff's.


----------



## AEWMoxley (May 26, 2019)

MJF has to somehow find his way in, right? Moxley said that the current DON card looks different than originally planned, and given that MJF promo on Dynamite after Revolution, I have to assume that they were planning to do Moxley vs MJF at DON. Obviously that was scrapped because MJF couldn't attend Dynamite, but they have to go back to that at All Out.


----------



## Aedubya (Jul 12, 2019)

Wardlow, Luchasauras & Brian Cage as the final 3 to enter please


----------



## Aewwe (May 3, 2020)

Kip was inevitable when it was confirmed there were 9 participants. I suppose we'll get a Penelope spot now.

Seems strange to think that Kip won the first match of the first DoN card less than 12 months ago against Sammy, more than likely to cater for the UK ITV Box Office market, given how much they were selling that in the buy in. Safe to say they have both gone in opposite directions since then.


----------



## spiderguy252000 (Aug 31, 2016)

I’ve got a crazy scenario that I’m gonna throw out and let me know how you all feel about it. Darby and Cody both win their respective matches. Darby starts going on a winning streak for weeks and then eventually decides that he’s going to sacrifice his world title shot for one more shot at Cody and the TNT championship. This could make Darby look dumb because the world title means more.... but I think that if told right, the story could be that Darby is so obsessed with beating Cody that he’d be willing to make that sacrifice.
Of course Darby would win and get the huge rub of finally beating Cody AND becoming TNT champion.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

spiderguy252000 said:


> I’ve got a crazy scenario that I’m gonna throw out and let me know how you all feel about it. Darby and Cody both win their respective matches. Darby starts going on a winning streak for weeks and then eventually decides that he’s going to sacrifice his world title shot for one more shot at Cody and the TNT championship. This could make Darby look dumb because the world title means more.... but I think that if told right, the story could be that Darby is so obsessed with beating Cody that he’d be willing to make that sacrifice.
> Of course Darby would win and get the huge rub of finally beating Cody AND becoming TNT champion.


That would be great, except for the fact that it would bury Archer if he doesn’t win this.

I mean, none of us expect them to do anything with Archer if he doesn’t win the title, right?


----------



## spiderguy252000 (Aug 31, 2016)

bdon said:


> That would be great, except for the fact that it would bury Archer if he doesn’t win this.
> 
> I mean, none of us expect them to do anything with Archer if he doesn’t win the title, right?


I think that if Archer lost and then picked up some wins afterwards he should be fine. He could easily transition into the world title picture after some more wins.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1261687857493745664


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Jesus.


----------



## Aedubya (Jul 12, 2019)

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

I don't mind Kaz but it is out of nowhere. Kazarian is very much midcard.


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

Kaz and Sky means they could work together. Or end SCU. 

They've been in SCU together for years now - They're going to say "well, this is in the spirit of competition no hard feelings after" but all the other compeitiors would rightfully be leary as hell at the huge advantage Kaz and Sky have now.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I don't mind Kaz but it is out of nowhere. Kazarian is very much midcard.


I like Kazarian more than Scorpio. Kazarian got a good match out of Mox!

But...yeah. Another guy who don’t belong.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Plenty of good workers in this match, but like bdon and others have said, so many guys that have no right being in a world title match anytime soon. 

That said, considering they will be doing this match in intervals; what order do people see the competitors entering in? I'm thinking Allin and Fenix would result in a good, hot start to the match, not to mention Allin being the one entrant so far that I could conceive fighting in a one off title match, should have earned a competitive advantage over the likes of OC and Kazarian based on what he's done.


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

I just hope the match ends before the 9th and final wrestler gets the chance to enter. That would amuse me. 

Given the 90s intervals, i sounds like this match isn't being given much time and it be a car crash sprint of a ladder match.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

So far, we have 5 faces in Sky, Kaz, Allin, OC, and Colt, and only 2 heels in Fenix and Sabian. I'm thinking that both of the final entrants may end up being heels to balance this out a bit more; in which case I see Spears definitely being one of them, especially as a bigger catch type guy.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

El Hammerstone said:


> So far, we have 5 faces in Sky, Kaz, Allin, OC, and Colt, and only 2 heels in Fenix and Sabian. I'm thinking that both of the final entrants may end up being heels to balance this out a bit more; in which case I see Spears definitely being one of them, especially as a bigger catch type guy.


Spears and Wardlow, I reckon.


----------



## taker1986 (Sep 14, 2016)

Spears was one of the guys that stepped up during all these taped shows that only had 30% of the roster. I can't see him being left off the card completely. Either he's one of the final two entrants in this match or he's in a singles match with Dustin, which is being teased.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

That match does not look like a World Title Ladder Match. Almost none of them belong. MJF should be the last guy in when he beats Jungle Boy and he should win the whole thing. Two more wins in one night on a PPV should get him ready for a shot. It really doesn't matter who the last guy is. Maybe Daniels so you've got all three members of SCU in there? I dunno. It really doesn't need to happen.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1262050715486359560


----------



## Aedubya (Jul 12, 2019)

Nice


----------



## Purple Haze (Sep 30, 2019)

I would put Wardlow instead of Luchasaurus, he is more ready and had a great match with Cody while Luchasaurus did not have any singles match aside from squashes i guess. 
But they can have both of them in the match anyways.


----------



## ripcitydisciple (Dec 18, 2014)

Assuming it doesn't get announced before I finish writing this, I would make the MJF/Jungle Boy match for the 9th and final entrant into the ladder match. MJF beats Jungle Boy(with diamond ring), wins the Ladder Match(with help from Wardlow) and gets his World Title shot. 

Sometime towards the end of the Ladder match, Luchasaurus and Wardlow brawl to the back, continuing their feud and Storyline.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

So we have 8 competitors and 2 of them are heels...

Cody is going to turn heel after losing to Archer and enter himself isn't he!?


----------



## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

Considering Luchasaurus is in there I would assume Wardlow is the final guy in. I hope that's the case, they need more heels in there and I like having big guys in there to play off the smaller, high flying guys to base for them.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

TD Stinger said:


> Considering Luchasaurus is in there I would assume Wardlow is the final guy in. I hope that's the case, they need more heels in there and I like having big guys in there to play off the smaller, high flying guys to base for them.


Not to mention, you have a 6 face to 2 heel ratio at the moment.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

TD Stinger said:


> Considering Luchasaurus is in there I would assume Wardlow is the final guy in. I hope that's the case, they need more heels in there and I like having big guys in there to play off the smaller, high flying guys to base for them.


Could pretty much eliminate eachother from the match too with a brawl elsewhere. 

Though Wardlow winning only to present the chip to MJF would be nice. And something they can play off in future.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1262413180720029698


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Of course.


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

Mystery man is always fun. In the very least to me it means somebody not currently active from the roster. Recent WWE purge firings are not available until mid-July. Gulak is said to be instantly available but not a needle mover - he could get a decent contract raise offer out of this though.

Brian Cage healthy? PAC back Stateside?

Hangman and Mercedes Martinez were the CBR wildcards IIRC. So doesn't have to be some epic reveal - just a surprise.


----------



## taker1986 (Sep 14, 2016)

El Hammerstone said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1262413180720029698


Whether it's an active member or not keeping it a secret is a smart move because move people will buy out of curiosity. If it's not an active member i think it's likely to be someone like Cage or Jeff Cobb. Would be great if it's Gulak though. Look at this salty Tweet from WWE lol. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1262322033922375683


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Mystery man is always fun. In the very least to me it means somebody not currently active from the roster. Recent WWE purge firings are not available until mid-July. Gulak is said to be instantly available but not a needle mover - he could get a decent contract raise offer out of this though.
> 
> Brian Cage healthy? *PAC back Stateside?*
> 
> Hangman and Mercedes Martinez were the CBR wildcards IIRC. So doesn't have to be some epic reveal - just a surprise.


This is my personal prediction. It would be great if it were Cage, but I would not have him come in and earn a world title shot in his first match with the company; he'd come into the match and look strong for sure, and probably set up his first feud through this match, but him becoming #1 contender straight away would be way too soon.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

They really need to stop blowing their surprises. Announce 8 and then have number 9 come out randomly on the night. "Anything can happen when you buy an AEW PPV!" would be the general consensus from the TV fans and the PPV fans would be pleased at getting a little something extra from buying the PPV.

They come off as marks for praise when they do this. More interested in the "likes", positive comments and retweets as opposed to providing a thrilling show that truly shocks and surprises people.


----------



## PavelGaborik (Oct 30, 2015)

Certainly adds some intrigue to the match/card. 

I like it.


----------



## PavelGaborik (Oct 30, 2015)

Chip Chipperson said:


> They really need to stop blowing their surprises. Announce 8 and then have number 9 come out randomly on the night. "Anything can happen when you buy an AEW PPV!" would be the general consensus from the TV fans and the PPV fans would be pleased at getting a little something extra from buying the PPV.
> 
> They come off as marks for praise when they do this. More interested in the "likes", positive comments and retweets as opposed to providing a thrilling show that truly shocks and surprises people.


Much smarter business decision to build some suspense and get people talking beforehand. 

We don't need a giant clusterfuck in the middle of a match.


----------



## SZilla25 (Sep 1, 2016)

Cage would be sweet. Pac returning would also be sweet.


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

El Hammerstone said:


> This is my personal prediction. It would be great if it were Cage, but I would not have him come in and earn a world title shot in his first match with the company; he'd come into the match and look strong for sure, and probably set up his first feud through this match, but him becoming #1 contender straight away would be way too soon.


Only issue with PAC is Fenix already part of the match and Death Triangle is still a thing AFAIK. Of course two members of SCU are in the match so really doesn't surely mean he's out, but I think there is a break up plan with SCU as Daniels put 100% support behind Kaz which has Tony Khan then tweet "100% Kaz and 0% Sky??" or something to that effect. 

WWE developmental cuts only had a 30 day NCC. Though not sure any of the men cut would be worthy of a mystery man spot. Maybe Chris Hero I guess, as much as I would loath his sloppy fatness in AEW.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

The surprise doesn't even HAVE to win but its always a good way to bring someone in and start a feud with someone else from that match.

It CANNOT be someone on the roster. Absolurely cannot be. That'd be buzzkill, just like Hangman was in the Battle Royal.

Though I said the other day im worried Cody loses to Archer and inserts himself into this match, wins and turns heel.

Or they genuinely haven't got a clue and the match ends before they get to the 9th.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

PavelGaborik said:


> Much smarter business decision to build some suspense and get people talking beforehand.
> 
> We don't need a giant clusterfuck in the middle of a match.


They've already built the PPV. They've got a big title match between Cody and Archer, they've got Mike Tyson, they're promising a violent gimmick match, a ladder match and what is looking to be a pretty decent undercard. 

They can afford to let the surprise be an actual surprise. This announcement isn't swaying anyone new into buying the PPV unless they were already going to do so anyway.

Also, who mentioned a giant clusterfuck? Have the 8 guys ready to duke it out and then have number 9's music hits and out he comes...


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Chip Chipperson said:


> They've already built the PPV. They've got a big title match between Cody and Archer, they've got Mike Tyson, they're promising a violent gimmick match, a ladder match and what is looking to be a pretty decent undercard.
> 
> They can afford to let the surprise be an actual surprise. This announcement isn't swaying anyone new into buying the PPV unless they were already going to do so anyway.
> 
> Also, who mentioned a giant clusterfuck? Have the 8 guys ready to duke it out and then have number 9's music hits and out he comes...


I never liked the surprise entrant thing. You mean to tell me they signed this guy, but no one knew he was going to enter the match?


----------



## PavelGaborik (Oct 30, 2015)

Chip Chipperson said:


> They've already built the PPV. They've got a big title match between Cody and Archer, they've got Mike Tyson, they're promising a violent gimmick match, a ladder match and what is looking to be a pretty decent undercard.
> 
> They can afford to let the surprise be an actual surprise. This announcement isn't swaying anyone new into buying the PPV unless they were already going to do so anyway.
> 
> Also, who mentioned a giant clusterfuck? Have the 8 guys ready to duke it out and then have number 9's music hits and out he comes...


This card hasn't been "built" on a proper foundation due to the pandemic. Almost everything was done on the fly and it certainly shows with everything coming together over the past couple of weeks(and still being announced to this day)

Having a random guy just insert himself into a match as an extra participant is the definition of a cluster fuck. I think the idea is atrocious to be quite honest. 

Love the suspense, it's one of the reasons I used to enjoy the Rumble before they essentially ruined it.


----------



## Bosnian21 (May 27, 2019)

My predictions for the surprise entrant (in order of what I perceive the likelihood to be):

Brian Cage
Pac
Anthony Ogogo
Hangman Page
Sting 

I’m not saying this is what I would want, but this is the list I could see happening. I would have included Wardlow and probably have him win it. I see him as a future top guy in AEW.


----------



## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

If PAC is in the UK, can he even get into the USA? Thought travel was still very restricted.

I think the final participant has to be somebody new to the roster for them to push the old mystery card so much on a PPV. My guess is Gulak in a one time only deal, despite heat between him and Cody.


----------



## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

PAC would be my pick but if he’s in the UK there’s no way. And I can’t think of another current roster guy who would fit that’s not already on the card.

People say Gulak but as much as I would like him he would be a let down. Brian Cage could work.


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

I'll call Chris Hero is the mystery man. Being a developmental guy means he only has a 30 day no compete clause which would expire by the 23rd. Biggish indie name, old head can work up and down the card with any sized opponent, basically any style. A wrestling encyclopedia.


----------



## Oracle (Nov 9, 2011)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I'll call Chris Hero is the mystery man. Being a developmental guy means he only has a 30 day no compete clause which would expire by the 23rd. Biggish indie name, old head can work up and down the card with any sized opponent, basically any style. A wrestling encyclopedia.


Nobody would know who the fuck he even is.

i had to google his name fuck no


----------



## ABH-22 (Apr 9, 2018)

Oracle said:


> Nobody would know who the fuck he even is.
> 
> i had to google his name fuck no


That's a troll surely? Even though his WWE run was a big fail and he definitely wouldn't be my first choice, i'd say Hero is a big big Indie name.


----------



## Even Flow (Jun 10, 2005)

It certainly won't be PAC, as he's still in the UK, so he can't fly to America still.

I don't think the 9th guy will be anyone interesting tbh. I can see it being a let down.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

This company really needs a better midcard.


----------



## ProjectGargano (Apr 7, 2018)

I just dont want it to be Dustin or Pinneapple Pete... it would be a great let down...


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

taker1986 said:


> Whether it's an active member or not keeping it a secret is a smart move because move people will buy out of curiosity. If it's not an active member i think it's likely to be someone like Cage or Jeff Cobb. Would be great if it's Gulak though. Look at this salty Tweet from WWE lol.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1262322033922375683


It's not really a smart move. Are people going to buy a PPV because of a mystery opponent? It's also likely to build up anticipation and be "Oh..." when it's announced. And what exactly is salty about that tweet? They didn't use his name? Calling him Daniel Bryan's "training partner" gives him more credibility, if anything. 

It does give me hope it's going to be MJF though. He's the only guy they've got or have access to that is anywhere near ready. If it's someone outside the company then they're just going to look shit if they lose, and if they're big enough to warrant winning, it's not the most effective way to bring them in. It should be MJF. But you watch it be Curry Man. 



Cult03 said:


> This company really needs a better midcard.


It's a good thing they're introducing a mid-card title into this mess.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

PavelGaborik said:


> This card hasn't been "built" on a proper foundation due to the pandemic. Almost everything was done on the fly and it certainly shows with everything coming together over the past couple of weeks(and still being announced to this day)
> 
> Having a random guy just insert himself into a match as an extra participant is the definition of a cluster fuck. I think the idea is atrocious to be quite honest.
> 
> Love the suspense, it's one of the reasons I used to enjoy the Rumble before they essentially ruined it.


Nobody said he would insert himself in the match he's been booked in advance as a surprise but it's not an announced surprise. Announcing a surprise defeats the purpose of a surprise anyway.

It'd be like if at Bash At The Beach 1996 they had someone on the WCW commentary announce team say "Expect a big surprise tonight that will rock WCW to it's very core!" or at Wrestlemania 17 the show started with the announcers saying "Tonight's main event is going to have a massive surprise!".

It just ruins it if you announce it. If you like the suspense that's cool but AEW has teased pretty much every guy that has any chance of coming in also so even if it is somehow EC3 or Zack Ryder or whoever else it still won't be a real surprise because we're expecting those guys to turn up anyway.



Bosnian21 said:


> My predictions for the surprise entrant (in order of what I perceive the likelihood to be):
> 
> Brian Cage
> Pac
> ...


61 year old Sting who is currently nursing a neck injury that needs surgery is going to compete in a ladder match in a relatively empty arena for the distant number 3 company in the world?

I'd say 0.0% chance of that one happening.


----------



## Jazminator (Jan 9, 2018)

I can see the surprise entrant being Zack Ryder. I hope not, though.

If it’s Brian Cage, that would be pretty awesome. But isn’t he still injured?


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

It’s just all around stupid.

If it is someone in the company, then there was no need for the surprise. If it is someone outside of the company, they either A) look stupid for joining the fray and immediately losing or B) we have yet another goddamn outside person joining AEW, getting an immediate title shot, and making everyone else in the company look like shit.


----------



## PavelGaborik (Oct 30, 2015)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Nobody said he would insert himself in the match he's been booked in advance as a surprise but it's not an announced surprise. Announcing a surprise defeats the purpose of a surprise anyway.
> 
> It'd be like if at Bash At The Beach 1996 they had someone on the WCW commentary announce team say "Expect a big surprise tonight that will rock WCW to it's very core!" or at Wrestlemania 17 the show started with the announcers saying "Tonight's main event is going to have a massive surprise!".
> 
> ...


The surprise is the random individual appearing. AEW building suspense and announcing there will be a 9th entrant in the match is smart. I'd much rather know the number of competitors competing in the match before it happens rather than just having some random show up as a "surprise" and insert themselves into the match. To me, that's a cluster fuck situation. 

Not particularly sure how Stone Cold turning heel in the Main Event of Mania is a remotely reasonable analogy to a mystery competitor appearing in a ladder match, but sure.


----------



## PavelGaborik (Oct 30, 2015)

bdon said:


> It’s just all around stupid.
> 
> If it is someone in the company, then there was no need for the surprise. If it is someone outside of the company, they either A) look stupid for joining the fray and immediately losing or B) we have yet another goddamn outside person joining AEW, getting an immediate title shot, and making everyone else in the company look like shit.


Somebody is going to look bad by losing a 9-man ladder match? 

Lol.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Someone debuting will look like shit for supposedly being a big shocking surprise only to lose. None of the names competitors involved will look shit, but why is EC3, Rusev, Gulak, or the like getting a title shot before MJF, Omega, or Pac?

We’ll see how this goes, but I am starting to see the glass ceiling forming.


----------



## PavelGaborik (Oct 30, 2015)

bdon said:


> Someone debuting will look like shit for supposedly being a big shocking surprise only to lose. None of the names competitors involved will look shit, but why is EC3, Rusev, Gulak, or the like getting a title shot before MJF, Omega, or Pac?
> 
> We’ll see how this goes, but I am starting to see the glass ceiling forming.


It's a ladder match against 8 other individuals. You don't "look like shit" just because one of the other 8 competitors climbed the ladder and won the match. This is the type of match where somebody who loses can easily come out of the match after creating destruction looking the strongest. 

EC3 and Rusev still have about two months left in their no compete clauses.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

PavelGaborik said:


> Somebody is going to look bad by losing a 9-man ladder match?
> 
> Lol.


Yes. You have 8 losers. 



PavelGaborik said:


> It's a ladder match against 8 other individuals. You don't "look like shit" just because one of the other 8 competitors climbed the ladder and won the match. This is the type of match where somebody who loses can easily come out of the match after creating destruction looking the strongest.
> 
> EC3 and Rusev still have about two months left in their no compete clauses.


And this is for a World Title shot, folks.


----------



## PavelGaborik (Oct 30, 2015)

The Wood said:


> Yes. You have 8 losers.
> 
> 
> 
> And this is for a World Title shot, folks.


Time to start handing out championships in briefcases instead I suppose.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

PavelGaborik said:


> It's a ladder match against 8 other individuals. You don't "look like shit" just because one of the other 8 competitors climbed the ladder and won the match. This is the type of match where somebody who loses can easily come out of the match after creating destruction looking the strongest.
> 
> EC3 and Rusev still have about two months left in their no compete clauses.


It isn’t about those involved in the ladder match. It’s about MJF, Omega, Pac, Hangman, etc. Guys that don’t have the WWE main roster stench on them, have been busting ass for the show, but just got slapped further back for the new shiny toy.

Glass ceiling is alive and well in 2020.


----------



## PavelGaborik (Oct 30, 2015)

bdon said:


> It isn’t about those involved in the ladder match. It’s about MJF, Omega, Pac, Hangman, etc. Guys that don’t have the WWE main roster stench on them, have been busting ass for the show, but just got slapped further back for the new shiny toy.
> 
> Glass ceiling is alive and well in 2020.


MJF is their money feud and needs to be saved for a time when they can have a proper build - with fans in attendance. Hangman has also been MIA for a while due to the pandemic. 

The roster is still very much taking shape. They aren't deep enough at the moment to throw away MJF vs Mox for the world title. 

Hangman and MJF are their two obvious future stars....but they need to win it/have those feuds take place on a big stage with a proper build up and fans in attendance. 

Could you imagine if they rushed an MJF/Mox feud for DoN with MJF not even being able to make an appearance until last week? Oof. That's the kind of terrible booking I was fearing. Thankfully they were e smart enough to avoid such a travesty.


----------



## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

Not sure why this is a big deal since the winner will just be fed to supermox.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

PavelGaborik said:


> MJF is their money feud and needs to be saved for a time when they can have a proper build - with fans in attendance. Hangman has also been MIA for a while due to the pandemic.
> 
> The roster is still very much taking shape. They aren't deep enough at the moment to throw away MJF vs Mox for the world title.
> 
> ...


Now imagine giving that same goddamn match to an EC3, Rusev, or hell, even Brodie Lee. Those guys either win the title, or you’ve admitted, “Well, we don’t have much planned for them. They’re literally just names, so hey, here’s their title shot, promos, and everything else! Fuck Hangman and Pac! They ain’t here! Fuck their pre-taped vignettes! They don’t have the built-in fan base from the WWE machine!!!”


----------



## PavelGaborik (Oct 30, 2015)

bdon said:


> Now imagine giving that same goddamn match to an EC3, Rusev, or hell, even Brodie Lee. Those guys either win the title, or you’ve admitted, “Well, we don’t have much planned for them. They’re literally just names, so hey, here’s their title shot, promos, and everything else! Fuck Hangman and Pac! They ain’t here! Fuck their pre-taped vignettes! They don’t have the built-in fan base from the WWE machine!!!”


EC3 and/or Miro are not happening and Brodie losing is fine. He's 40 years old and I don't think anybody expected him to come in and win the world title, certainly not right away at least.

Admittedly it feels a tad forced and you can tell the match came together on the fly. 

The Elite vs the Inner Circle is the true main event of the card.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

RainmakerV2 said:


> Not sure why this is a big deal since the winner will just be fed to supermox.


That’s why it’s stupid. Whoever the surprise is is shit out of luck. They’re not going to win. They haven’t had any build, making it likely a 3rd consecutive unearned title defense and lowering the prestige of the title, all while shitting on those that did deserve the title shot, but AEW is too scared to place in the fucking match in front of an empty arena.

So, you effectively shit on the new face by saying you threw him to the lions without any build, have further shown more wrestlers that if they’re unhappy just come to AEW and we’ll give you title shots galore, which furthertells the fans “Hey, the guys you don’t know aren’t deserving of title shots, but these WWE midcard acts that laid around in catering sure are!!”, and you’ve killed Mox’s momentum by having him wrestle in these Heatles matches.

Goddamn Cody sure knows how to PLAYYYYYY THE GAME!!


----------



## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

bdon said:


> That’s why it’s stupid. Whoever the surprise is is shit out of luck. They’re not going to win. They haven’t had any build, making it likely a 3rd consecutive unearned title defense and lowering the prestige of the title, all while shitting on those that did deserve the title shot, but AEW is too scared to place in the fucking match in front of an empty arena.
> 
> So, you effectively shit on the new face by saying you threw him to the lions without any build, have further shown more wrestlers that if they’re unhappy just come to AEW and we’ll give you title shots galore, which furthertells the fans “Hey, the guys you don’t know aren’t deserving of title shots, but these WWE midcard acts that laid around in catering sure are!!”, and you’ve killed Mox’s momentum by having him wrestle in these Heatles matches.
> 
> Goddamn Cody sure knows how to PLAYYYYYY THE GAME!!



Well the title needs to get off Mox, like, yesterday.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

RainmakerV2 said:


> Well the title needs to get off Mox, like, yesterday.


Well, that’s a topic for another time. Heh.

They simply didn’t need to do this “surprise” entry. It’s a bad decision all around. Just name 9 guys and roll with it. It sucks thinking these 8 who don’t deserve it would get a match, but it is what it is.

Unless that 9th entrant is MJF, Omega, or Hangman, then again, we have a situation where they’re booking with no plan on the backend that furthers or grows these characters. We know Darby and Sky, the most credible thus far, ain’t getting to work any angle with Moxley. Just more filler BS. Why can’t people have something going on that doesn’t involve EVPs and Jericho/Moxley? “Hey! Here’s a match against one of the untouchables! We promise this is how you get the rub!”

No fucking storyline laid out and ready coming out of these feuds/angles. It’s annoying.


----------



## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

bdon said:


> Well, that’s a topic for another time. Heh.
> 
> They simply didn’t need to do this “surprise” entry. It’s a bad decision all around. Just name 9 guys and roll with it. It sucks thinking these 8 who don’t deserve it would get a match, but it is what it is.
> 
> Unless that 9th entrant is MJF, Omega, or Hangman, then again, we have a situation where they’re booking with no plan on the backend that furthers or grows these characters.



Honestly, Id have it go last. Mox vs. Lee is such a nothing match to end a PPV with. Especially if Mox is just going over to end the show and is gonna cut some speech after. No thanks.


----------



## Aedubya (Jul 12, 2019)

Gotta be Brian Cage


----------



## The Masked Avenger (Apr 18, 2018)

Some of you guys can't have fun with things and that's pretty sad.


----------



## domotime2 (Apr 28, 2014)

bdon said:


> Someone debuting will look like shit for supposedly being a big shocking surprise only to lose. None of the names competitors involved will look shit, but why is EC3, Rusev, Gulak, or the like getting a title shot before MJF, Omega, or Pac?
> 
> We’ll see how this goes, but I am starting to see the glass ceiling forming.


Glass cieling if you only see success as "being World champion" and "competing for world champion" as if wrestling isn't a work. MJF is featured every single week as a top legit player in the company. Sooooo what are you complaining about? Omega is featured constanttttly, he's one half of the tag champion, and 90% of the people who watch AEW know he's a top guy.

PAC, yes, he's taking a back seat right now, which is unfortunate.


----------



## domotime2 (Apr 28, 2014)

i think this match sounds exciting as hell by the way. I like them trying a new concept and we'll see how it works. I ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLWAYS like companies, AEW or WWE, trying different things. I will never shit on new things.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

domotime2 said:


> i think this match sounds exciting as hell by the way. I like them trying a new concept and we'll see how it works. I ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLWAYS like companies, AEW or WWE, trying different things. I will never shit on aew things.


You made a small typo in that last sentence but I fixed it for you


----------



## domotime2 (Apr 28, 2014)

Cult03 said:


> You made a small typo in that last sentence but I fixed it for you


i dont understand the fix? I was serious. I will never shit on either company for trying new things. 

or if you're trying to be a weirdo and say i never critique AEW, well that's just wrong. The last thread i created was about how i dont like Brodie Lee and the Dark Order .


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

bdon said:


> Well, that’s a topic for another time. Heh.
> 
> They simply didn’t need to do this “surprise” entry. It’s a bad decision all around. Just name 9 guys and roll with it. It sucks thinking these 8 who don’t deserve it would get a match, but it is what it is.
> 
> ...


You seem shocked that potential storylines and feuds have been put on hold or haven't happened because there's a global pandemic preventing talent from being available.....


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Erik. said:


> You seem shocked that potential storylines and feuds have been put on hold or haven't happened because there's a global pandemic preventing talent from being available.....


You can book around it.

For example even with the pandemic AEW could've put on a much better card they just don't really know how to unfortunately.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Chip Chipperson said:


> You can book around it.
> 
> For example even with the pandemic AEW could've put on a much better card they just don't really know how to unfortunately.


How would you have booked it?


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

taker1986 said:


> Whether it's an active member or not keeping it a secret is a smart move because move people will buy out of curiosity. If it's not an active member i think it's likely to be someone like Cage or Jeff Cobb. Would be great if it's Gulak though. Look at this salty Tweet from WWE lol.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1262322033922375683


Do you really think more people will buy the PPV just to see who the secret midcard ladder much participant is?


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Erik. said:


> How would you have booked it?


I don't think anyone here will ever admit if I did indeed book it better but I do love some fantasy booking so here we go:

Moxley/MJF (Mike Tyson as the special enforcer) - The cocky rich heel character who is undefeated takes on the AEW World Heavyweight Champion. MJF either wins the belt or loses his streak which is quite an interesting hook. You also have a ready made story as the rich guy who has had all this success takes on a guy like Moxley who had to brawl his way to the top and is more of an every man. Tyson to get involved in some capacity where maybe he prevents MJF from cheating or nails him with a right hand to help Moxley win the match. MJF comes out on TV the following week talking about how he was cheated and he still hasn't lost clean in AEW.

Archer/Cody - I've actually enjoyed most of the build for this one apart from last weeks silliness so this one is fine. Archer over and we go into a deep personal feud to be blown off on TV with a rematch between the two.

Inner Circle (Jericho, Sammy and Hager) Vs The Elite (Kenny and The Bucks) (Stadium Brawl) - With this one I would've had Jericho enter into a feud with Kenny. Only Sammy was at the initial tapings so we have Sammy attempting to fuck with Kenny throughout with Jericho cheering him on from commentary talking about how great Guevara is doing as a protege. I think the two did have a match with one another during this taping so they could've gone with that also with Kenny getting a win and Sammy being pissed about it. First taping where The Inner Circle are back they beat the fuck out of Kenny 5 on 1 with only Matt Hardy trying to run in and make the save. Maybe we up the ante a little bit with an injury angle or they embarrass Kenny in some way and we head into the PPV with Kenny promising revenge against the group because he'll have The Bucks in his corner. The Kenny promo announcing his partners would be this week if I booked it and we'd probably have The Elite go over in this one but they'd go over on Hager or Sammy not Jericho. After this we can go into Kenny/Jericho which should be one of the main events of the next PPV after this one.

Brodie Lee Vs Darby Allin - Brodie Lee debuts in AEW and is a charismatic cult leader who comes across as a super positive guy that you definitely want to know. He recruits a guy or two for The Dark Order by focusing on their insecurities before approaching Darby Allin and trying it with him. Brodie uses Darby's history of being homeless on the streets, being unable to beat the top stars in AEW etc as his way to hone in on Darby by saying if Darby joined The Dark Order he'd no longer struggle with the likes of Cody and definitely wouldn't end up on the streets again. Darby says no thanks and is offered the deal to join for a few weeks until eventually suggesting that Brodie might not be completely legit in an interview which sets Brodie off and we see his first "evil act" towards Darby resulting in the PPV match being made. Brodie over with some shenanigans in this one but don't worry too much because Darby gets his revenge later on down the road with his first big pinfall victory happening over Brodie on a TV special.

Christopher Daniels Vs Frankie Kazarian Vs Kip Sabian Vs Matt Hardy Vs Rey Fenix Vs Mystery Guy (Ladder Match) - To be honest if I had total control of the PPV I wouldn't book a match like this but cut down on how many guys are in the ladder match (K.I.S.S) and keep it at six guys which is more than enough for a spotty ladder match. I give AEW the benefit of the doubt in this one and say the mystery guy is someone special so he debuts in the promotion and wins the ladder match to earn a title match. It's a shame AEW doesn't have an authority figure or something like that but I think I'd have the announcers say that whilst the mystery guy did indeed win the ladder match he needs to string a few more wins together before actually getting his title match.

Britt Baker/Nyla Rose - Easy sell here as Britt Baker comes out on TV putting Nyla down for being the total opposite of what she is. Britt is beautiful, Nyla is not. Britt is a successful dentist and businesswoman whilst Nyla is one injury away from being unable to pay her bills. To avoid turning Nyla face I think I'd just have her react accordingly to this but not really act as a face or be shown to be too sympathetic about this. Baker goes over in this heel vs heel match simply because I think she's the only one really worth watching in AEW's women's division.

Jungle Boy & Luchasaurus Vs Santana and Ortiz (Number 1 Contenders) - After copping the 5 on 2 beatdown we see Kenny Omega approach Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus who he proclaims are the two best guys to keep Santana and Ortiz out of his business at the PPV. Kenny says if they can successfully beat Santana and Ortiz they can have an AEW World Tag Team Title match as soon as Adam Page returns. He says in the interest of fairness though if Santana and Ortiz win then they have to grant the title shot to them. Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus agree and they go over in this one earning themselves a title match against Kenny and Page which they should probably win as well.

Colt Cabana Vs Wardlow - I'd give them 6-7 minutes with Wardlow getting the winner in the opener much to the joy of MJF. Announcers put over the fact that Wardlow is going up against a former NWA World Heavyweight Champion and a hugely successful wrestler for the past 20 years in Cabana. We could even get the always entertaining MJF on commentary for this one where he shit talks Moxley the whole time as well.

So there you go my friend, seven match PPV with suitable build using the guys who have been around lately. I think my card is much better and makes much more sense than the real AEW card but I'm definitely biased on this one.


----------



## taker1986 (Sep 14, 2016)

RapShepard said:


> Do you really think more people will buy the PPV just to see who the secret midcard ladder much participant is?


I don't think it'll be a huge boost in PPV buys, but I think a few might buy it out of curiosity since Cage, Cobb and Gulak could be potential entrance. I've even seen Stings name floating about. 

Overall though this will probably do less that last year, but they've done a pretty good job to put an overall decent card together over the last couple of weeks.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

taker1986 said:


> I don't think it'll be a huge boost in PPV buys, but I think a few might buy it out of curiosity since Cage, Cobb and Gulak could be potential entrance. I've even seen Stings name floating about.
> 
> Overall though this will probably do less that last year, but they've done a pretty good job to put an overall decent card together over the last couple of weeks.


Well I guess in the most literal of sense sure someone will. But yeah for the vast majority I can't imagine it being a factor in purchase. Though it is a nice surprise, especially if it's something big or really left field. 

It'll definitely do less, but they've been dealt a tough hand so it's not their fault.


----------



## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

I think this should be free like Fyter Fest & Fight for the Fallen were last year. You're main event is more of a Dynamite main event, there isn't a crowd, it hasn't been promoted like the first DoN was, like All Out was, or like Revolution was. This is one of the few times I have not understood what Khan was thinking. GREAT time to put this thing out free, please the fans, avoid the embarrassment of their first likely 30k or less buyrate, and avoid pissing people off for paying $50 for a crowdless show.


----------



## The Masked Avenger (Apr 18, 2018)

TKO Wrestling said:


> I think this should be free like Fyter Fest & Fight for the Fallen were last year. You're main event is more of a Dynamite main event, there isn't a crowd, it hasn't been promoted like the first DoN was, like All Out was, or like Revolution was. This is one of the few times I have not understood what Khan was thinking. GREAT time to put this thing out free, please the fans, avoid the embarrassment of their first likely 30k or less buyrate, and avoid pissing people off for paying $50 for a crowdless show.


They don't control the pricing. It's something they have mentioned many times.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

PavelGaborik said:


> Time to start handing out championships in briefcases instead I suppose.


No one said that was a good idea, did they? I'll need a citation on that one. In fact, I'm someone who criticizes the Money in the Bank concept and think it should be put to rest. What now, Pavel?


----------



## PavelGaborik (Oct 30, 2015)

The Wood said:


> No one said that was a good idea, did they? I'll need a citation on that one. In fact, I'm someone who criticizes the Money in the Bank concept and think it should be put to rest. What now, Pavel?





The Wood said:


> No one said that was a good idea, did they? I'll need a citation on that one. In fact, I'm someone who criticizes the Money in the Bank concept and think it should be put to rest. What now, Pavel?


What's wrong with it? Seems like a good way to protect individuals and even build on them for future feuds. 

If booked properly you can get multiple superstars over in a highly entertaining match.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Good booking doesn’t mean titles or competing for titles. They have not tried to do any goddamn storylines for Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus. They tease something, and there is never a pay off. MJF wins the goddamn blood feud with Cody and fucking disappears. Hangman the same. What is Kenny’s motivation in AEW, and why is he some sort of big deal? Pentagon and Fenix have been treated like jokes.

Any fucking character work, vignettes, and promos are for the WWE guys who have goddamn YEARS of character work on national TV thanks to the machine’s backing.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

PavelGaborik said:


> What's wrong with it? Seems like a good way to protect individuals and even build on them for future feuds.
> 
> If booked properly you can get multiple superstars over in a highly entertaining match.


Name a main event star that was actually made by the Money in the Bank Ladder Match outside of Edge. That's what's wrong with it. It doesn't protect anyone. You have one winner who usually looks lucky and like they don't genuinely belong in the main event, and you have five, six or seven losers. And how many time can you see the same multi-person Ladder Match before they become white noise. Can anyone genuinely say they remember a single spot from the 2010 Money in the Bank Ladder Match at WrestleMania XXVI? Can people remember who won it? Do they consider that a success? And who else was in the match? That's a problem.


----------



## PavelGaborik (Oct 30, 2015)

The Wood said:


> Name a main event star that was actually made by the Money in the Bank Ladder Match outside of Edge. That's what's wrong with it. It doesn't protect anyone. You have one winner who usually looks lucky and like they don't genuinely belong in the main event, and you have five, six or seven losers. And how many time can you see the same multi-person Ladder Match before they become white noise. Can anyone genuinely say they remember a single spot from the 2010 Money in the Bank Ladder Match at WrestleMania XXVI? Can people remember who won it? Do they consider that a success? And who else was in the match? That's a problem.


Why on Earth would we need to limit things to "money in the bank" which just became a thing rather recently? Tag Titles should also be prestigious, no? The Hardy's seemed to do alright following their TLC match. Edge (as you already named) and Christian seemed to manage to carve out solid careers of their own. That's all from the same match. Ladder matches have elevated the career of multiple careers, I don't think it should matter if it's a tag match or each man for himself but I know you're quite the nitpicker so :

Rollins is an obvious one to directly answer your question. He easily had the best run of his career following his mania cash in.


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

The Wood said:


> Name a main event star that was actually made by the Money in the Bank Ladder Match outside of Edge. That's what's wrong with it. It doesn't protect anyone. You have one winner who usually looks lucky and like they don't genuinely belong in the main event, and you have five, six or seven losers. And how many time can you see the same multi-person Ladder Match before they become white noise. Can anyone genuinely say they remember a single spot from the 2010 Money in the Bank Ladder Match at WrestleMania XXVI? Can people remember who won it? Do they consider that a success? And who else was in the match? That's a problem.


cm punk
Daniel Bryan 
Seth rollins
Dean Ambrose


----------



## Aedubya (Jul 12, 2019)

Is there an image of this silhouette that looks like Cage from the Darby vignette?


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Aedubya said:


> Is there an image of this silhouette that looks like Cage from the Darby vignette?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1263300932533727233


----------



## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

Here is my prediction.

They mystery guy will be managed by Taz, going after Darby since Darby rejected Taz’s offer, and will win the match. And they guy will either be Brian Cage or Jeff Cobb.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Aedubya said:


> Is there an image of this silhouette that looks like Cage from the Darby vignette?


WWE have used a silhouette that looks even more like Brian Cage for a while now


----------



## 10gizzle (Oct 11, 2019)

TD Stinger said:


> Here is my prediction.
> 
> They mystery guy will be managed by Taz, going after Darby since Darby rejected Taz’s offer, and will win the match. And they guy will either be Brian Cage or Jeff Cobb.


Gotta think from a visual/aesthetic standpoint - Cobb/Tazz would be a nice pairing.


----------



## ABH-22 (Apr 9, 2018)

Could actually see it being Cobb, gets his rematch vs Mox after the cheap win he got in the last match. And didn't JR say recently Cobb had signed elsewhere? Which makes it even more likely seeing as you can't trust a word that comes out of JR's mouth these days.


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

I htink Cobb re-signed with RoH though.


----------



## Aedubya (Jul 12, 2019)

10gizzle said:


> Gotta think from a visual/aesthetic standpoint - Cobb/Tazz would be a nice pairing.


'Team No-Neck'


----------



## Dice Morgan (Apr 26, 2017)

I really think they should work angle were Rey Fenix gets attacked either before the show or before the match and save him from during any more harm to himself and be out from an extended period of time. I understand he has been cleared to work the show but im sure he's going to pull out all his spots for the PPV. Just seems too risky to me.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Fenix out.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1264033722434756608

Let me just remind everyone that this is for a shot at THE WORLD TITLE.


----------



## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

Damn, well....i would hope they dont debut Rusev at an empty arena show...so the hidden gem is maybe Brian Cage, or..maybe Drew Gulak? I dunno...


----------



## Jazminator (Jan 9, 2018)

Sad about Rey Fenix, but I’m glad he won’t miss significant time. There will be other PPVs and opportunities for him. 

I’m rooting for Darby to win this!


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

El Hammerstone said:


> Fenix out.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1264033722434756608
> ...


Janela is one of those guys who has no place in a major promotion. There's tons of guys on the indies, in Japan or Mexico, who look and wrestle better. Did they have no one else to add to this match? It cheapens it a bit when someone like him is in it, IMO.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

I assume he's in it for no more than a ridiculously dangerous spot.


----------



## oglop44 (Oct 10, 2019)

My guess for the mystery guy is Ricky Starks. Him announcing himself as a free agent last week was just too close to be a coincidence. Plus he's pretty good!


----------



## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

3venflow said:


> Janela is one of those guys who has no place in a major promotion. There's tons of guys on the indies, in Japan or Mexico, who look and wrestle better. Did they have no one else to add to this match? It cheapens it a bit when someone like him is in it, IMO.


TBH I kinda like Janela. He's a little bit weird and easy to form an opinion about. Makes him more interesting than your typical job guy. At least they didn't put "Death Match Legend" Luther in the match or something


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

It's a Casino Ladder Match - people gamble at casinos to win money, not earn money. These wrestlers signed up to take part in a nine-man ladder match to win a title shot rather than grind out to earn a shot via rankings. As we see with Fenix out injured now - ladder matches are extra risky and you're gambling your health to take part in it. Each week somebody wins Powerball and become instant millionaires without "earning it" - does that discourage people from trying to earn their living or minimize the money of other millionaires?

They're literally fighting to claim a casino chip to cash in for a title shot. If there wasn't a global pandemic I suspect this would be another Casino Battle Royale on the DoN II Buy-in show from Las Vegas.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

oglop44 said:


> My guess for the mystery guy is Ricky Starks. Him announcing himself as a free agent last week was just too close to be a coincidence. Plus he's pretty good!


Yeah, I'm thinking this too. 

Starks, Hero or Flip Gordon. 

I'm refusing to get my hopes up for Brian Cage. Because I'll just be disappointed.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Mystery guy could be PAC or someone already signed that hasn't been on tv for a while. I'm not getting my hopes up for a big surprise.


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

Debuting Brian Cage, who is mere days from being medically cleared from bicep tear surgery, in a car crash ladder match would be sorta dumb. 

Cage should have been #10 in Dark Order - Weapon X.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Debuting Brian Cage, who is mere days from being medically cleared from bicep tear surgery, in a car crash ladder match would be sorta dumb.
> 
> Cage should have been #10 in Dark Order - Weapon X.


If he's the last competitor, the match would already have been going on for 15 minutes. 

He's declared himself fit on social media and if he just comes in, has a 5 minute cameo and either wins due to everyone else wearing themselves out or starts a feud with someone in the match whilst someone like Allin wins, so be it. 

But yeah, I'm not getting my hopes up. Brian Cage is the best guy they could get for that position. So it won't be him.


----------



## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

Erik. said:


> I assume he's in it for no more than a ridiculously dangerous spot.


With Allin and Janela in there, we should really have an "Over/Under 1.5 dangerous reckless spot" counter for this match.



oglop44 said:


> My guess for the mystery guy is Ricky Starks. Him announcing himself as a free agent last week was just too close to be a coincidence. Plus he's pretty good!


I like Starks as much as the next guy but setting him as a surprise entrant for this kind of match would probably be a disappointment for a lot fans who were expecting something bigger.



Erik. said:


> Yeah, I'm thinking this too.
> 
> Starks, Hero or Flip Gordon.
> 
> I'm refusing to get my hopes up for Brian Cage. Because I'll just be disappointed.


I thought Gordon was still signed with ROH. And like Starks, I can't say Hero is quite big enough of name to be in this kind of spot.



DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Debuting Brian Cage, who is mere days from being medically cleared from bicep tear surgery, in a car crash ladder match would be sorta dumb.
> 
> Cage should have been #10 in Dark Order - Weapon X.


I'm not a huge Brian Cage fan but I'd rather he not end up in the wasteland of a stable that is the Dark Order.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

TD Stinger said:


> I thought Gordon was still signed with ROH. And like Starks, I can't say Hero is quite big enough of name to be in this kind of spot.


I heard his contract was up "sometime in May"


----------



## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

Erik. said:


> I heard his contract was up "sometime in May"


Hm, interesting. I like him but I also think ROH has enough guys who can work his style and besides being a Satellite member of the Elite, there's not that much appeal there.


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

Flip would be interesting. Just seems weird he would have signed a contract extension back in late 2018 for less than two full years. 

Flip would probably be used in The Elite storytelling as well if he was being brought in. If Matt Jackson couldn't go because of the broken ribs for example.


----------



## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

TD Stinger said:


> With Allin and Janela in there, we should really have an "Over/Under 1.5 dangerous reckless spot" counter for this match.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dark Order would be kind of cool if they just start (fuck it let's really piss off some smarks and literally have Brodie use the term "future endeavors") cutting some members and it was just Brodie Lee, Brian Cage, Preston Vance and Uno and Greyson.

That being said, I think they'd have Cage as a face because all the other hosses are evil


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

I would much prefer EC3 as the mystery man over Cage. Cage is fine but not nearly as well rounded talent


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

shandcraig said:


> I would much prefer EC3 as the mystery man over Cage. Cage is fine but not nearly as well rounded talent


90 days aren't up yet, unfortunately.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Erik. said:


> 90 days aren't up yet, unfortunately.



Right forgot about that.


----------



## bugsysig (May 23, 2020)

The timing of the surprise final entrant, along with the news of Gulak and Sting being free of WWE, seems too coincidental for it not to be related. 

That said, no way Sting shows up, even as entrant 9, to participate in a ladder match after 5 years out of the ring and at his age. 

Gulak makes sense even as a 1-off. He’s free, can work right away, is just coming out of a regular WWE storyline, and it would give him leverage for renegotiating with WWE or negotiating with AEW. 

Not sure thats what will happen, as it’s being rumored it’s not a recent WWE guy, but would make the biggest splash. Not sure Cage really moves the needle right now, but he’d be a great addition overall as AEW is desperate for hoss faces. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Aedubya (Jul 12, 2019)

oglop44 said:


> My guess for the mystery guy is Ricky Starks. Him announcing himself as a free agent last week was just too close to be a coincidence. Plus he's pretty good!


Interesting , i know nothing about the guy
He any good?
He was on a flight this morning......


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

I get Velveteen Dream vibes from this -


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1262418617783779328


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I get Velveteen Dream vibes from this -
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1262418617783779328


Starks has insane charisma.


----------



## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

oglop44 said:


> My guess for the mystery guy is Ricky Starks. Him announcing himself as a free agent last week was just too close to be a coincidence. Plus he's pretty good!


Who?


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Aedubya said:


> Interesting , i know nothing about the guy
> He any good?
> He was on a flight this morning......


Can work the mic well, very charismatic, not amazing but quite solid in the ring, good prospect overall.







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1262418617783779328


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Chan Hung said:


> Who?





Chan Hung said:


> Who?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1256054554564726785


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

I'm hoping it's Chris Hero.


----------



## Zapato (Jun 7, 2015)

These posts are selling me on Starks, but I wouldn’t put him in this match. If he has to be unveiled tonight I’d have a vignette along the lines of that twitter post further up, even just show that exact vignette as it’s done really well. Akin to how they revealed Wardlow the first time. I think putting him straight into this match could fall flat like AEW have done before with Butcher and the Blade, the first version of Dark Order and Luther.

Let us get to know him first, you can throw in someone else for this match with a bit of name value that doesn’t need that bit of build up. Even if it’s just someone like Zack Ryder or the idea someone posted of Gulak doing a one night only showing.


----------



## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I get Velveteen Dream vibes from this -
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1262418617783779328


Man he's slick but a little unsettling. Almost like Gustavo Fring.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Geeee said:


> Man he's slick but a little unsettling. Almost like Gustavo Fring.


That's honestly one of the things I like most about his portrayal, you see the glitz and glamour on the surface but also sense there may be a real dark aura behind it all.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

PavelGaborik said:


> Why on Earth would we need to limit things to "money in the bank" which just became a thing rather recently? Tag Titles should also be prestigious, no? The Hardy's seemed to do alright following their TLC match. Edge (as you already named) and Christian seemed to manage to carve out solid careers of their own. That's all from the same match. Ladder matches have elevated the career of multiple careers, I don't think it should matter if it's a tag match or each man for himself but I know you're quite the nitpicker so :
> 
> Rollins is an obvious one to directly answer your question. He easily had the best run of his career following his mania cash in.


What the fuck? We're talking about World Title shots in Ladder Matches, that's why MITB is important. I'm not talking about the history of the Ladder Match, I'm talking about the modern history of World Title shots being awarded through it in post-effective world. 

Rollins didn't get elevated by the MITB. He was already getting pushed as part of The Shield. The World Title shot was barely a plot device. Also, his World Title run was not only booked horribly, but it did horrible business too. 



Danielallen1410 said:


> cm punk
> Daniel Bryan
> Seth rollins
> Dean Ambrose


CM Punk flopped as World Heavyweight Champion. His second win? _Maybe._ The feud with Jeff was excellent and MITB was useful to kick-start that, but it was really the feud that elevated him and not winning itself. Plus, Punk would go on to do basically nothing for two years. Bryan was not elevated by winning MITB or the World Title. He was elevated by the fans rebelling when he lost it. Rollins was a bigger deal in The Shield than he was without them, as was Ambrose. Who the fuck even remembers Ambrose winning?


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

I like Ricky Starks, and I like that he's obviously passionate and he's not presented himself as a fucking goofball, but he needs to be very careful doing that sort of shit. It's wrestling. We shouldn't see _into_ a psyche like that. There's a fine line he's technically stepping over there.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Yep Ricky Starks is really good. Great talent.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

The Wood said:


> What the fuck? We're talking about World Title shots in Ladder Matches, that's why MITB is important. I'm not talking about the history of the Ladder Match, I'm talking about the modern history of World Title shots being awarded through it in post-effective world.
> 
> Rollins didn't get elevated by the MITB. He was already getting pushed as part of The Shield. The World Title shot was barely a plot device. Also, his World Title run was not only booked horribly, but it did horrible business too.
> 
> ...


I feel the biggest MITB success story was unsurprisingly the first recipient, that of course being Edge winning his first world title. Yeah, he was in some big matches prior to it, but his cash in I feel really cemented him as a permanent top guy, while in the years before, he was always a guy "on the verge". When he cashed in on Cena after that chamber match, I was in complete and utter shock, especially due to this being the first cash in and therefore no precedent had been set.

These days, I just want the match done away with.


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

I hope the chip cannot he cashed in instantly, but announced a week in advance. Cashing it in instantly was way too much of a crutch to protect the losing champion and hurt the new champion as they only won by taking advantage of the already decimated champ.


----------



## PavelGaborik (Oct 30, 2015)

The Wood said:


> What the fuck? We're talking about World Title shots in Ladder Matches, that's why MITB is important. I'm not talking about the history of the Ladder Match, I'm talking about the modern history of World Title shots being awarded through it in post-effective world.
> 
> Rollins didn't get elevated by the MITB. He was already getting pushed as part of The Shield. The World Title shot was barely a plot device. Also, his World Title run was not only booked horribly, but it did horrible business too.
> 
> ...


I literally just gave you multiple examples. Both in tag matches and singles competition.

Seth was getting a nice push in the upper mid card but became arguably the most hated heel in the company after cashing in at Mania. His career was absolutely elevated as a result of winning the match. His run certainly fizzled quickly as a result of atrocious booking but it started off hot. Just listen to the pop when his music hit and he ran down the ramp at mania to save us from the Roman/Brock match nobody wanted to see. 

The fact that you can also literally cash in your contract and pin the champion at any moment is by far the largest issue with the Money In The Bank format. It's fucking stupid. You should earn a proper title match with the champion, point blank.


I'm sorry having some guy run down the ramp and pin the champions corpse after a 20 minute match makes the title look like a fucking joke.


----------



## Oracle (Nov 9, 2011)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I'm hoping it's Chris Hero.


Trust me you are the only person in the world hoping its this jabroni


----------



## ElTerrible (Feb 8, 2004)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I hope the chip cannot he cashed in instantly, but announced a week in advance. Cashing it in instantly was way too much of a crutch to protect the losing champion and hurt the new champion as they only won by taking advantage of the already decimated champ.


Didn´t even think of that. It would be absolutely insane to have Rusev win the Casino Ladder as a babyface only to return 2 hours later to turn on Moxley with the help of EC3 and The Revival to announce a takeover. That´s the kind of buzz AEW needs. If they´d be able to pull that off, plus have Mike Tyson do some sh*t, they´d probably draw a real rating next Wednesday. I´d actually be in favour of doing this as long as it´s Rusev. Anybody below his status is just not good enough. 

Just realized how much it hurts AEW to not have a crowd for all these moments like Hardy, Broadie and whatever they pull off tonight. We all know WWE would do their same old sh*t with or without a crowd. Makes no difference to them.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

ElTerrible said:


> Didn´t even think of that. It would be absolutely insane to have Rusev win the Casino Ladder as a babyface only to return 2 hours later to turn on Moxley with the help of EC3 and The Revival to announce a takeover. That´s the kind of buzz AEW needs. If they´d be able to pull that off, plus have Mike Tyson do some sh*t, they´d probably draw a real rating next Wednesday. I´d actually be in favour of doing this as long as it´s Rusev. Anybody below his status is just not good enough.
> 
> Just realized how much it hurts AEW to not have a crowd for all these moments like Hardy, Broadie and whatever they pull off tonight. We all know WWE would do their same old sh*t with or without a crowd. Makes no difference to them.


It can't be Rusev, EC3, or any of the "Black Wednesday" releases; the 90 days aren't through yet.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

El Hammerstone said:


> I feel the biggest MITB success story was unsurprisingly the first recipient, that of course being Edge winning his first world title. Yeah, he was in some big matches prior to it, but his cash in I feel really cemented him as a permanent top guy, while in the years before, he was always a guy "on the verge". When he cashed in on Cena after that chamber match, I was in complete and utter shock, especially due to this being the first cash in and therefore no precedent had been set.
> 
> These days, I just want the match done away with.


Edge is the best shout. The gimmick was basically tailored to him. I wish they had stuck with harder initially, but he's the guy. And I completely agree with the match needing to be done away with. 



PavelGaborik said:


> I literally just gave you multiple examples. Both in tag matches and singles competition.
> 
> Seth was getting a nice push in the upper mid card but became arguably the most hated heel in the company after cashing in at Mania. His career was absolutely elevated as a result of winning the match. His run certainly fizzled quickly as a result of atrocious booking but it started off hot. Just listen to the pop when his music hit and he ran down the ramp at mania to save us from the Roman/Brock match nobody wanted to see.
> 
> ...


What a bizarre use of the word "literally." Again, and I feel like I need to repeat myself a lot to you -- I'm talking about Ladder Matches making main eventers. No tag team Ladder Match has ever made a WWF/E main eventer. We're talking about a Ladder Match taking someone from the mid-card and making them somebody. That's why Money in the Bank is an important factor to focus on -- that's what it's designed to do. I don't think anyone but you is having any trouble grasping that. 

You say that Seth was the most hated heel, but then talk about his pops? Surely I cannot be the only one who can see something wrong with that. Seth was working with Rock, Taker, Triple H, Batista and Randy Orton before he won MITB. It's a pretty markish thing to genuinely see the gimmick as elevating him. And again -- that run fucking sucked. He was better off before he became champ. 

And then you go on to agree with the overall point. Excellent. Yes, I agree -- MITB is shit.


----------



## Oracle (Nov 9, 2011)

Lets be real its probably going to be Zack fucking Ryder.


----------



## Alex6691 (Sep 17, 2012)

Chris Hero? Good god almighty


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Let's run down the possibilities: 

Pac: Probably stuck in the UK. If he has been in the US and they just haven't used him...eh? Okay? He's a guy there.

Miro Barnyashev: Why would you debut him in this? Why not debut him beating the piss out of a jobber? This would just be silly, but it's AEW, so if they could get him it would be a possibility, because their booking is often stunt booking. He was released from his contract, however, so he's probably still under no compete. The only grey area here is that his contract was expiring. If your deal is coming up and you get fired within a 90-day window, do you still have a no-compete that extends past the terms of your contract? I don't know if a WWE talent has ever been in that situation before. 

One of The Revolt: They're free agents and it would be "shocking" to the people on the internet. Dax Shepherd winning the title shot would be something to bring them into the company. They also love copying WWE and they just had Otis win MITB, so Dax winning a World Title shot and having a partner around to help him is something they could easily do. Or they could use the title shot to go after the World Tag Titles. But this would just be weird. 

Christopher Daniels: He's there. His buddies are in the match. Him donning his Curry Man gimmick in order to enter is something that is TOTALLY down AEW's alley. Can't you just see some comedy spots involving Colt Cabana, Orange Cassidy and Curry Man? Oh man, sycophants' heads would explode from the sheer hilarity. 

Someone from ROH/MLW: Of the "surprises," this is probably the most likely one. Who knows if a ROH, NWA or MLW deal has expired. This could be anyone from Ricky Starks to Jay Lethal to Mance Warner. It likely wouldn't be a HUGE name, but someone they can just slip into the mid-card.

Matt Cardona: Pretty sure he'd still be under a no-compete clause. 

MJF: This is the one that makes the most sense. You are trying to make a main eventer. MJF beating nine dudes in one night would be them giving him a push. Of the people on the roster, he is both the most ready and the best. This would be the best booking. This is also why I am sceptical it would happen. Cody winning is more likely at this point. 

Cody: Can't you just see him "putting over" Archer, with Tyson then presenting Archer the belt, Jake mouthing off and then Tyson punching Jake, only for Cody to enter the Ladder Match under a gimmick to earn a title shot and go back to feuding with MJF who calls out Cody on his bullshit, only for Cody to defend his shot and then position him for the main event with Moxley at All Out or whatever? That's just soooo AEW at this point. As I'm writing this, I am convincing myself. 

Of those options, it would probably be Pac if he's there. Other than that, I'm leaning towards it being Cody, Daniels or a new signing. They haven't been very successful in luring people away, and no one can seem to keep a secret these days, so if I had to predict a new signing, my guess is that it would be Ricky Starks, and he'll just slip right into that mid-card.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Chris Hero is a really talented guy. He would be an amazing signing for a wrestling promotion, but it's doubtful the AEW guys would listen to him. They don't seem to listen to JR or Arn Anderson. He'll get a job there though, because they surface-level respect him.


----------



## PavelGaborik (Oct 30, 2015)

The Wood said:


> Edge is the best shout. The gimmick was basically tailored to him. I wish they had stuck with harder initially, but he's the guy. And I completely agree with the match needing to be done away with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I can't think of many examples of ladder matches with in excess of 6+ individuals competing for a #1 contender spot outside of MITB -- It's not the ladder match itself I have gripes with, it's the cash in format and the way that it's booked that makes it terrible.

It elevated Seth to the main event scene as a singles act, not just as a flash in the pan, but as a consistent headliner. The Shield as a group were significantly more over than any of them have made it on their own I kind of figured that would go without saying but evidently not.. He was arguably the most hated heel for a brief period in time following the cash in before terrible booking took it's toll but considering the pop he was given for saving the crowd from having to see Roman or Brock get their hands raised in a match nobody wanted to see it wouldn't have been a bad idea to turn him back face and get him away from the abysmal authority storyline. 

Truth be told I don't care about the MITB or it's terrible format -- I haven't watched the WWE on a regular basis because in at least a decade. I don't care for it -- you could say I view it as a waste of my time.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

PavelGaborik said:


> I can't think of many examples of ladder matches with in excess of 6+ individuals competing for a #1 contender spot outside of MITB -- It's not the ladder match itself I have gripes with, it's the cash in format and the way that it's booked that makes it terrible.
> 
> It elevated Seth to the main event scene as a singles act, not just as a flash in the pan, but as a consistent headliner. The Shield as a group were significantly more over than any of them have made it on their own I kind of figured that would go without saying but evidently not.. He was arguably the most hated heel for a brief period in time following the cash in before terrible booking took it's toll but considering the pop he was given for saving the crowd from having to see Roman or Brock get their hands raised in a match nobody wanted to see it wouldn't have been a bad idea to turn him back face and get him away from the abysmal authority storyline.
> 
> Truth be told I don't care about the MITB or it's terrible format -- I haven't watched the WWE on a regular basis because in at least a decade. I don't care for it -- you could say I view it as a waste of my time.


Well that's exactly the point. They weren't done for a reason and if they were there's a reason they don't stand out. If you can't benefit from an honest-to-god actual push, then you probably shouldn't be winning World Title shots on PPV. 

So you don't argue that The Shield was more over than singles Seth? Thanks for playing.


----------



## Alex6691 (Sep 17, 2012)

If people shit on Joey Janela for being out of shape what hope does Chris Hero have? I've never been one to be hung up on what a wrestler looks like or their height etc but Hero looks terrible. I've never seen anything from him that interests me. Not to mention he's getting on a bit.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Alex6691 said:


> If people shit on Joey Janela for being out of shape what hope does Chris Hero have? I've never been one to be hung up on what a wrestler looks like or their height etc but Hero looks terrible. I've never seen anything from him that interests me. Not to mention he's getting on a bit.


I, for one, do not want to see Chris Hero in AEW with this being the biggest reason. If this were a decade ago when he were in passable shape, then sure, but the guy is 40 now and threw away a potential push in NXT because he refused to get into better shape; that kind of thing rubs me the wrong way. Not everyone needs to look like a bodybuilder (Shawn Michaels is my all time favourite, he at least looked like an athlete), but I'd like some effort at the very least, for crying out loud, these are professionals.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

I've heard different things about Hero. I heard at one point that he might have a condition or something? But those could just be apologetics. If Hero really transformed himself, or was capable of it, and he came back for one big roaring run, I'd be all for it. But honestly, if he got himself into shape, it's probably the sort of gimmick WWE would like to promote, and I could see him ending up back there and getting a documentary made about him.


----------



## Alex6691 (Sep 17, 2012)

El Hammerstone said:


> I, for one, do not want to see Chris Hero in AEW with this being the biggest reason. If this were a decade ago when he were in passable shape, then sure, but the guy is 40 now and threw away a potential push in NXT because he refused to get into better shape; that kind of thing rubs me the wrong way. Not everyone needs to look like a bodybuilder (Shawn Michaels is my all time favourite, he at least looked like an athlete), but I'd like some effort at the very least, for crying out loud, these are professionals.


I completely agree. Guys like Chuck T and Janela don't bother me at all. I really don't see the big deal with physique but Chris Hero is another level of out of shape. Again, age isn't everything. Lance archer is 43 but he's been relevant in recent years. Brodie Lee is 40 but he's been relevant and been involved in relevant storylines in WWE over the years. Chris Hero threw away his chance in NXT and now only matters to his fans who loved him after his initial NXT release. He's one of very very few people who I'd genuinely be disappointed if AEW signed.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

I don't mind Hero but i feel if he was a signing by AEW it'd be a signing with a "We'll show you how good he can be" type signing aimed at NXT or WWE. 

Think he just needs to go back to ROH


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## PavelGaborik (Oct 30, 2015)

The Wood said:


> Well that's exactly the point. They weren't done for a reason and if they were there's a reason they don't stand out. If you can't benefit from an honest-to-god actual push, then you probably shouldn't be winning World Title shots on PPV.
> 
> So you don't argue that The Shield was more over than singles Seth? Thanks for playing.


Getting over as a singles act isn't the same as getting over in a faction, he was entering the next chapter in his career and the cash in was actually booked surprisingly well. The booking that proceeded the cash in was the issue. 

He now pretends to be Jesus and recently drew the lowest rated segment in the history of RAW along with Drew. 

You're welcome.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

PavelGaborik said:


> Getting over as a singles act isn't the same as getting over in a faction, he was entering the next chapter in his career and the cash in was actually booked surprisingly well. The booking that proceeded the cash in was the issue.
> 
> He now pretends to be Jesus and recently drew the lowest rated segment in the history of RAW along with Drew.
> 
> You're welcome.


And he didn't get over that well as a singles act. So how can you say that the MITB helped him get over as a singles act? Lol. The cash-in was not booked surprisingly well. He crashed a WrestleMania main event as an out because the booking was bad, haha. The booking before was bad, the booking after was bad, the cash-in is trivial. And I've got no clue why you are bringing up what he is doing now like it is a) relevant, b) helps your point. You're right, Seth hasn't worked out the best. Again, thank you for making my points for me, haha. 



Alex6691 said:


> I completely agree. Guys like Chuck T and Janela don't bother me at all. I really don't see the big deal with physique but Chris Hero is another level of out of shape. Again, age isn't everything. Lance archer is 43 but he's been relevant in recent years. Brodie Lee is 40 but he's been relevant and been involved in relevant storylines in WWE over the years. Chris Hero threw away his chance in NXT and now only matters to his fans who loved him after his initial NXT release. He's one of very very few people who I'd genuinely be disappointed if AEW signed.


Chuck Taylor and Joey Janela are more annoying because they are skinny fat and just look lazy/not special. At least Hero has a body type. Sure, that body type might be "Tiny John Tenta," but I'd rather see a fat guy do amazing shit than a normal looking dude off the street do a dance routine.

If my dream of another billionaire getting whispers from someone in the business that there is a massive market for wrestling done right when crowds can come back comes true, Chris Hero would have a spot in that promotion as an agent/at house shows helping guys along. I don't really see the need to push him in 2020, so I'm not sure if you'd need to use him on TV, but maybe in a tag team with someone who has got a world of potential and for that person to eventually outgrow? Yeah, I can see that.


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## Alex6691 (Sep 17, 2012)

The Wood said:


> Chuck Taylor and Joey Janela are more annoying because they are skinny fat and just look lazy/not special. At least Hero has a body type. Sure, that body type might be "Tiny John Tenta," but I'd rather see a fat guy do amazing shit than a normal looking dude off the street do a dance routine.
> 
> If my dream of another billionaire getting whispers from someone in the business that there is a massive market for wrestling done right when crowds can come back comes true, Chris Hero would have a spot in that promotion as an agent/at house shows helping guys along. I don't really see the need to push him in 2020, so I'm not sure if you'd need to use him on TV, but maybe in a tag team with someone who has got a world of potential and for that person to eventually outgrow? Yeah, I can see that.


No, he doesn't have a body type. Kevin Owens has a body type. Viscera had a body type, Umaga had a body type. Chris Hero is just the epitome of not giving a shit and that has ultimately damaged his career. He has no business signing with AEW.


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## Alex6691 (Sep 17, 2012)

Also what amazing shit did he do in NXT? Genuinely I don't watch NXT all too much so please correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't his role to show up every three months and work a program putting somebody over? Sounds like he's been in the role that suits him best tbh.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Chris Hero is way more talented and gives way more of a shit than most of the AEW roster. Him being fat is one thing, but the dude is an excellent craftsman. If you had the choose between Chris Hero and Joey Janela AND Chuck Taylor, you'd be wrong for taking the double-package.


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Alex6691 said:


> Also what amazing shit did he do in NXT? Genuinely I don't watch NXT all too much so please correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't his role to show up every three months and work a program putting somebody over? Sounds like he's been in the role that suits him best tbh.


He had a fucking amazing match with Regal to be fair.


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## Alex6691 (Sep 17, 2012)

Erik. said:


> He had a fucking amazing match with Regal to be fair.


Was that Regals last match? I'll check it out. I do vaguely remember watching it but can't remember much.


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## Alex6691 (Sep 17, 2012)

The Wood said:


> Chris Hero is way more talented and gives way more of a shit than most of the AEW roster. Him being fat is one thing, but the dude is an excellent craftsman. If you had the choose between Chris Hero and Joey Janela AND Chuck Taylor, you'd be wrong for taking the double-package.


Wrestling is subjective. Best friends entertain me far more than anything I've ever seen from Hero.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Alex6691 said:


> Also what amazing shit did he do in NXT? Genuinely I don't watch NXT all too much so please correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't his role to show up every three months and work a program putting somebody over? Sounds like he's been in the role that suits him best tbh.


Lol, wrestling is a work, Alex. It's not actually about going over all the time. Hero was a player/coach that helped Matt Riddle, Velveteen Dream and Lars Sullivan along a lot. Unfortunately, two of they may not work out long-term for...reasons. But that's not on Hero.

Lars Sullivan can go fuck himself, but his match with Hero at Takeover: War Games in 2017 was perfect for what it was intended to be. You don't get too many actually perfect matches. Neither Chuck Taylor nor Joey Janela have ever had anything close to that.


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

The Wood said:


> Chris Hero is way more talented and gives way more of a shit than most of the AEW roster. Him being fat is one thing, but the dude is an excellent craftsman. If you had the choose between Chris Hero and *Joey Janela AND Chuck Taylor, you'd be wrong for taking the double-package.*


lol double package, it's like offering to take a shit on my floor twice.


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## Alex6691 (Sep 17, 2012)

The Wood said:


> Lol, wrestling is a work, Alex. It's not actually about going over all the time. Hero was a player/coach that helped Matt Riddle, Velveteen Dream and Lars Sullivan along a lot. Unfortunately, two of they may not work out long-term for...reasons. But that's not on Hero.
> 
> Lars Sullivan can go fuck himself, but his match with Hero at Takeover: War Games in 2017 was perfect for what it was intended to be. You don't get too many actually perfect matches. Neither Chuck Taylor nor Joey Janela have ever had anything close to that.


Of course it is, I'm not suggesting it isn't but if he's not being pushed then its for a reason really isn't it?

Hey man, I never said Chuck or Joey were great or anything along those lines. I'm not denying Hero is a good coach and if AEW hired him as that then fine by me. But I do NOT want him on my TV.


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## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Alex6691 said:


> Was that Regals last match? I'll check it out. I do vaguely remember watching it but can't remember much.


Nah, Regal wrestled a few times after that. I think Cesaro was his last match.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Alex6691 said:


> Wrestling is subjective. Best friends entertain me far more than anything I've ever seen from Hero.


Wrestling isn't really subjective in the way you're making it out to be. It's such an overused word. It's fair to have a subjective opinion about whether or not you prefer Bret Hart or Shawn Michaels, but what you're saying is kind of like saying that Bio-Dome is a better movie than Citizen Kane. Some subjectivity is just stupidity, and people need to stop hiding behind it like any answer is correct.


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## Alex6691 (Sep 17, 2012)

The Wood said:


> Wrestling isn't really subjective in the way you're making it out to be. It's such an overused word. It's fair to have a subjective opinion about whether or not you prefer Bret Hart or Shawn Michaels, but what you're saying is kind of like saying that Bio-Dome is a better movie than Citizen Kane. Some subjectivity is just stupidity, and people need to stop hiding behind it like any answer is correct.


Agree to disagree brother.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Alex6691 said:


> Of course it is, I'm not suggesting it isn't but if he's not being pushed then its for a reason really isn't it?
> 
> Hey man, I never said Chuck or Joey were great or anything along those lines. I'm not denying Hero is a good coach and if AEW hired him as that then fine by me. But I do NOT want him on my TV.


Not everybody should get a push though. It's fine to have a gatekeeper dude at that level to work with guys coming in that could use a good showing and someone to help polish them off. That's a brilliant use of the guy, frankly, and it's a respectable role. 

I know, I'm just zeroing in on the Janela and Taylor thing because they are objectively terrible, haha. It's not fair to compare their lack of talent to Hero, who is actually a great worker. His body type is also less offensive to me, because at least he looks deceptively interesting. He's a big boy, but a fat guy that is actually really good as a gimmick can actually be fun. Even if they just brought him in to work Jericho in Dayton and had Jericho cut a promo on how he's an embarrassment to the name Chris and he's too ugly and too fat for television, only for them to go 40 minutes and Hero to knock Jericho the fuck out. I'd rather see that than time devoted to Joey or Chuck. 

I'm talking myself into it now. Have Hero lead the resistance against the Inner Circle. Jericho gets MJF, Wardlow and The Revolt to replace Hager, Santana & Ortiz. Hero picks them up and makes a light babyface faction. He can work with MJF, Wardlow and Guevara to get them further along. Then he can turn heel and work the babyface side.


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## PavelGaborik (Oct 30, 2015)

The Wood said:


> And he didn't get over that well as a singles act. So how can you say that the MITB helped him get over as a singles act? Lol. The cash-in was not booked surprisingly well. He crashed a WrestleMania main event as an out because the booking was bad, haha. The booking before was bad, the booking after was bad, the cash-in is trivial. And I've got no clue why you are bringing up what he is doing now like it is a) relevant, b) helps your point. You're right, Seth hasn't worked out the best. Again, thank you for making my points for me, haha.


The entirety of my point is that it the cash in itself worked well and elevated Seth to the main event scene as a singles Wrestler, and that even when they miraculously do book the format to work -- they still manage to fuck it up with their terrible booking. The cash in itself is not "trivial" it was a genuine great WM moment, one of few we've had lately. 

Clearly the WWE didn't think booking Roman vs Brock in the Main Event was that large of an error since we ended up getting another Mania match against them a mere 3 years later, as well as multiple other forgettable PPV Main Events.

Regardless - Rollins easily was the most over following his cash in and had the best run of his singles career to date following it. 

I brought up what he's doing now merely to poke fun at how laughably bad WWE Creative has booked Seth seemingly his entire career outside of that one brief run.


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## Alex6691 (Sep 17, 2012)

The Wood said:


> Not everybody should get a push though. It's fine to have a gatekeeper dude at that level to work with guys coming in that could use a good showing and someone to help polish them off. That's a brilliant use of the guy, frankly, and it's a respectable role.
> 
> I know, I'm just zeroing in on the Janela and Taylor thing because they are objectively terrible, haha. It's not fair to compare their lack of talent to Hero, who is actually a great worker. His body type is also less offensive to me, because at least he looks deceptively interesting. He's a big boy, but a fat guy that is actually really good as a gimmick can actually be fun. Even if they just brought him in to work Jericho in Dayton and had Jericho cut a promo on how he's an embarrassment to the name Chris and he's too ugly and too fat for television, only for them to go 40 minutes and Hero to knock Jericho the fuck out. I'd rather see that than time devoted to Joey or Chuck.
> 
> I'm talking myself into it now. Have Hero lead the resistance against the Inner Circle. Jericho gets MJF, Wardlow and The Revolt to replace Hager, Santana & Ortiz. Hero picks them up and makes a light babyface faction. He can work with MJF, Wardlow and Guevara to get them further along. Then he can turn heel and work the babyface side.


I get it man. But there's plenty of people who can do that already. Say what you want about Shawn Spears but I think he'd be a great coach and talent at putting people over, same with Dustin. Theres no need to bring in somebody the likes of Hero for the sake of it.

I'm glad you're so into him being signed and you can see potential storylines, good for you man. Just for me personally, he'd be the shits.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

PavelGaborik said:


> The entirety of my point is that it the cash in itself worked well and elevated Seth to the main event scene as a singles Wrestler, and that even when they miraculously do book the format to work -- they still manage to fuck it up with their terrible booking. The cash in itself is not "trivial" it was a genuine great WM moment, one of few we've had lately.
> 
> Clearly the WWE didn't think booking Roman vs Brock in the Main Event was that large of an error since we ended up getting another Mania match against them a mere 3 years later, as well as multiple other forgettable PPV Main Events.
> 
> ...


Well the entirety of your point doesn't make sense. The cash in was an angle in the middle of the match. You can call it great, but it's still WrestleMania IX level bullshit, really. But that aside, it was Seth's _only_ run as a singles guy to that point, so you don't really have anything to compare it to, it was less over than his Shield run which is the overriding point, and he was getting pushed anyway, so he didn't need Money in the Bank nor did it actually help him in anything other than kayfabe. They could have announced that Randy Orton vs. Seth Rollins was for entry into the match, which would have been bullshit, but achieved the exact same goal and would have probably helped Seth even more. 

There's always something better than Money in the Bank. If you're already pushing the guy, you don't need to have them beat a bunch of mid-carders in a Ladder Match to get them over. They're either already over or it's not actually going to help them. If they're not over, the gimmick flops, and if they are you don't need it. Building up actual feuds would have been way better than this. Scorpio Sky vs. Frankie Kazarian with Christopher Daniels as the special ref would have been more interesting. Rey Fenix having an actual personal issue with someone he can work with would have been better. Let's go with Pac, assuming he could be there. If not, Colt Cabana as a base could be fun if Colt was a serious heel or something. You could have put him in a mask for this occasion and done mask vs. mask. I'm not sure how familiar fans are with Colt's actual style, and you could have let him keep working in the NWA to make it appear he's locked under contract elsewhere. If he didn't do anything goofy, Fenix vs. a serious masked Cabana could have been interesting.

Throwing a bunch of mid-carders into a Ladder Match is lazy and counterproductive. And everyone has missed a lot of spots lately, so there's a chance a few people could get pretty badly hurt for something no one is really going to remember.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Alex6691 said:


> I get it man. But there's plenty of people who can do that already. Say what you want about Shawn Spears but I think he'd be a great coach and talent at putting people over, same with Dustin. Theres no need to bring in somebody the likes of Hero for the sake of it.
> 
> I'm glad you're so into him being signed and you can see potential storylines, good for you man. Just for me personally, he'd be the shits.


Shawn Spears had that rep in NXT. As an on-air guy, he's always sucked pretty hard. There's nothing spectacular about him, and some guys just aren't meant to pop. Dustin is an amazing talent to get in there with people. I wouldn't cut Dustin at all. I don't think him being there precludes Hero from being used. 

There are just so many amateurs in AEW, it would be nice to see some actual veterans come in to work with younger guys. Man, Hero vs. MJF is giving me a mental chubby. Can you imagine MJF's promos on the guy? You also need someone for Drew Gulak to work with if you're going to sign him. A Hero/Gulak match on Dynamite would probably be the best match they've ever put on TV.Do a best of seven series match between them and there's a few months of TV booked. Gulak goes up 4-3 and then Hero offers his hand and goes proper heel on Drew but doesn't want to wrestle him again because the series is over.


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## DanielStone (Jun 23, 2020)

I never liked Shawn Spears...


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## TomasRowley98 (Jan 28, 2021)

"double package, it's like offering to take a shit on my floor twice. " LMAOO


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